# The New MS880 AS Compared To An 088



## Mastermind (Feb 6, 2015)

I have a 088 and an MS880 here that I'm porting. Figured this would be a good time to compare the new 880 to the 088, to see what is really different. As many of you guys may know, the new MS880 is RPM limited.......and most of you will want to know how to get around that. 





The old school 088 on the left with the cast muffler, and the new 880 on the right wearing a stainless steel muffler.


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## big t double (Feb 6, 2015)

DEETS066!!! nice. subbed.


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## Mastermind (Feb 6, 2015)

OK, the RPM limited 880 has an aluminum flywheel, and a different coil than the MS880.

The 880...


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## Mastermind (Feb 6, 2015)

The 088...

Poly Flywheel......


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## Mastermind (Feb 6, 2015)

The 088 coil....





The 880 coil....


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## Mastermind (Feb 6, 2015)

How do we make the 880 an unlimited saw?


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## Mastermind (Feb 6, 2015)

Damn new saws...........





Stinking up muh shop.


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## Mastermind (Feb 6, 2015)

I'm gonna let some people chime in before I spill the beans.....

Later


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## Sprintcar (Feb 6, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> How do we make the 880 an unlimited saw?


 
You buy an 084 with the manual oiler.


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## Mastermind (Feb 6, 2015)

Hi Jerry.


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## nmurph (Feb 6, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Hi Jerry.



Don't you love dem south Ga boys?? Always stirring the pot.


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## betterbuilt (Feb 6, 2015)




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## Mastermind (Feb 6, 2015)

Oh man......


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## Mastermind (Feb 6, 2015)




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## Mastermind (Feb 6, 2015)

I'm gonna go get some Chinese food........I'll be back later. Then we'll see how to make the MS880 100% unlimited......and we'll talk about how Keith scored this dang piston.


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## Turbo BBQ (Feb 6, 2015)

If you're going to that place on North Main, try the General Tso's. It's made from Terrier.


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## big t double (Feb 6, 2015)

good thing most piston prices dropped drastically last month!!!


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## TBrown (Feb 6, 2015)

I'd like to see both these on chads dyno. I have a newer 880 for baseline saw. Or if I can have tree monkey tune mine and run all three.


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## Sprintcar (Feb 6, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> How do we make the 880 an unlimited saw?



First things first, how was lunch?

Let me sees, hows about a MS170 unlimited coil, there again may take two of em.

Course there again I'm kinda tarted, but I think I'm on the right track.


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## Stihlman441 (Feb 6, 2015)

I have heard a old model (not auto tune) 441 coil works.


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## Deets066 (Feb 6, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Oh man......


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## Deets066 (Feb 6, 2015)

Whats the jug look like


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## gunnusmc03 (Feb 6, 2015)

Do you cut the leg like some people do with a 461 coil?


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## Deets066 (Feb 6, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> I'm gonna go get some Chinese food........I'll be back later. Then we'll see how to make the MS880 100% unlimited......and we'll talk about how Keith scored this dang piston.


Carb setting too lean? Never seen a score that narrow. But if it can happen I'll be sure to be the one to do it


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## nyctreeman (Feb 6, 2015)

You need a flywheel and coil without the limiter ... that match each other, correct?


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## Ron660 (Feb 6, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> How do we make the 880 an unlimited saw?


 Will the 088 coil fit the 880?


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## mdavlee (Feb 6, 2015)

Ron660 said:


> Will the 088 coil fit the 880?


Not the newest version there.


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## Turbo BBQ (Feb 6, 2015)

I think the Chinese date night led into a quick game of twister with Mastermind on offense. Or he's still on the crapper............................


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## lovetheoutdoors (Feb 6, 2015)

Turbo BBQ said:


> I think the Chinese date night led into a quick game of twister with Mastermind on offense. Or he's still on the
> crapper............................



Hahahahaha


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## big t double (Feb 6, 2015)

I'm interested to see the difference in the 088/880 piston vs the NE 880 piston.


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## Mastermind (Feb 6, 2015)

Stihlman441 said:


> I have heard a old model (not auto tune) 441 coil works.



It does work.......but ain't unlimited. 



Deets066 said:


> Whats the jug look like



It's just fine. Heck this piston is far from ruined. Like Ted said though, OEM piston prices are very affordable these days. 



gunnusmc03 said:


> Do you cut the leg like some people do with a 461 coil?



Tree Monkey tried cutting that leg off the 461 coil. He said it made no difference.


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## Mastermind (Feb 6, 2015)

Ted said he was interested in seeing both pistons.......well. The other saw is lightly scored too.


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## Mastermind (Feb 6, 2015)

Anyway, back to the differences.

The jugs are different on the exhaust side because of the muffler mounting flanges. Plus they are different on the intake side too.


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## Mastermind (Feb 6, 2015)

The intakes, and intake rings are different.


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## Mastermind (Feb 6, 2015)

The 088 carb. 





The intelli-carb connection sleeve is cracked on this carb.......I wonder???





The 880 carb.


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## Mastermind (Feb 6, 2015)

The venturis are both the same size. 57/64


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## Turbo BBQ (Feb 6, 2015)

Cool Japanese castings. (Did I just say that aloud?)


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## cuttinties (Feb 6, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Anyway, back to the differences.
> 
> The jugs are different on the exhaust side because of the muffler mounting flanges. Plus they are different on the intake side too.



Carb sits closer to the intake on the left cylinder? If that's the case it'll make more rpm all things equal. Nice to see these big saws. Not something that's as common as I'd like in my area.


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## Mastermind (Feb 6, 2015)

No.......same distance away.


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## Deets066 (Feb 6, 2015)

Probably cracked from sittin so long, wonder what year it is. As I bought it as NOS


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## cuttinties (Feb 6, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> No.......same distance away.



Boot size the same? I can't really tell in the pics.


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## mdavlee (Feb 6, 2015)

Does the 361 coil fit or am I remembering wrong? 

Is the port timing on the new jug better than the older ones? I thought someone said they were but not sure


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## Mastermind (Feb 6, 2015)

Deets066 said:


> Probably cracked from sittin so long, wonder what year it is. As I bought it as NOS



Looks like it was smashed when it was assembled. 



cuttinties said:


> Boot size the same? I can't really tell in the pics.



No. The 880 is smaller. 



mdavlee said:


> Does the 361 coil fit or am I remembering wrong?
> 
> Is the port timing on the new jug better than the older ones? I thought someone said they were but not sure



Winner Winner Chicken Dinner. 

The MS361 coil works like a charm. 

Putting a degree wheel on now Mike.


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## Mastermind (Feb 6, 2015)

880 coil on the left......nasty 361 coil on the right.


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## Mastermind (Feb 6, 2015)




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## mdavlee (Feb 6, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Looks like it was smashed when it was assembled.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I waited a while to say it. Figured someone else might guess that. 

A race guy said the newer cylinder was more like the 084 timing but with the limited coil couldn't take advantage of the better timing.


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## Deets066 (Feb 6, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Looks like it was smashed when it was assembled.
> 
> Well it looks like there is one in perfect condition right next to it.
> 
> I'll just use that one.


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## Mastermind (Feb 6, 2015)

I like the way you think Keith.


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## cuttinties (Feb 6, 2015)

Sorry for the dumb questions. Carry on


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## Mastermind (Feb 6, 2015)

They aren't dumb questions my friend. 

Keep em coming.


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## Four Paws (Feb 6, 2015)

big t double said:


> good thing most piston prices dropped drastically last month!!!



Pressure from the aftermarket?


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## Mastermind (Feb 6, 2015)

I'm not so sure I'm gonna go with the larger intake parts right off the bat.......


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## Mastermind (Feb 6, 2015)

Four Paws said:


> Pressure from the aftermarket?



Very well could be. I bought a MS461 piston a couple of weeks ago for the same price as a Meteor.


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## mdavlee (Feb 6, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Very well could be. I bought a MS461 piston a couple of weeks ago for the same price as a Meteor.


I don't care what caused it but I'm happy about it. Makes buying oem stuff a better solution for saws you plan to sell.


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## big t double (Feb 6, 2015)

Four Paws said:


> Pressure from the aftermarket?


Gotta be. A while ago I took a survey for them (stihl) asking about their prices on certain items. I think they figured out they were loosing sales on replacement parts to aftermarket because if their ridiculous prices.


Mastermind said:


> Ted said he was interested in seeing both pistons.......well. The other saw is lightly scored too.


You think the NE piston run in the OE jug?


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## Mastermind (Feb 6, 2015)

Yeah Ted.......the 084, and 088/880 piston will run it any of those.


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## Deets066 (Feb 6, 2015)

What do ya suppose scored the piston?


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## Mastermind (Feb 6, 2015)

I'd say too lean a tune. The limited coil makes this saw damned tough to tune.


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## Deets066 (Feb 6, 2015)

I can't remember off hand what I was running for rpm. What are they limited at?


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## Mastermind (Feb 6, 2015)

Hell........your saw ain't the limited one.


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## Mastermind (Feb 6, 2015)

Duh......

I don't know what scored her then. 

I've yet to start it. I just sat it up on the bench (with help from a winch) and tore into it.


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## big t double (Feb 6, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Yeah Ted.......the 084, and 088/880 piston will run it any of those.


I ask because the old 084/088/880 piston has a different part number than the new 880 piston.


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## Deets066 (Feb 6, 2015)

(QUOTE="Mastermind, post: 5196969, member: 43167"]Hell........your saw ain't the limited one.[/QUOTE]
You was throwin me for a loop there


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## Mastermind (Feb 6, 2015)

big t double said:


> I ask because the old 084/088/880 piston has a different part number than the new 880 piston.



Really????

Let me look closer. 

Both jugs have the same port timing......within one degree.


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## Mastermind (Feb 6, 2015)

Deets066 said:


> You was throwin me for a loop there



Well......the Chinese food is making me real gassy.


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## Sprintcar (Feb 6, 2015)

I still think two MS170 coils would work.

What did I get fer dinner?

Never mind don't answer that.

Pictures of the wench to get it on yer bench.


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## Sprintcar (Feb 6, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Well......the Chinese food is making me real gassy.



WARNING : Note signature line. WARNING


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## Mastermind (Feb 6, 2015)

Sprintcar said:


> I still think two MS170 coils would work.
> 
> What did I get fer dinner?
> 
> ...



I use her a lot.


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## tacomatrd98 (Feb 6, 2015)

I'm very curious to see how this pans out. I bought a stainless muffler 880 brand new a few years ago. There are literally zero trees to "need" an 880 for around here but that's beside the point. The most use it saw was on a 70"+ oak trunk. The rest of the hours were with a 30" bar cutting "small" stuff. 

I was actually kinda impressed how well the 880 ran bone stock. Not fast by any stretch of the imagination but you could literally rip the damn handle off before it would stall the chain with a 41" bar burried. Fast forward to me reading this site and learning of the carb size differences and what not and the tinkering began. I bought a brand new 088 carb(they are now NLA as far as I know), a 441 coil and added a husky deflector on the LH side of the muffler and cut the internal "duct work" out and proceeded to waste about 3 or 4 hours of my life farting around with it and eventually putting it all back to stock, sans the muffler mod. The short of the story is, I never could make it run right with the larger carb and new coil. I don't know if I got a bum carb from brand new or what but I could never get it tuned in to where I was happy with it. It always seemed like it was running out of fuel like a low metering lever or tank vent problem. I tweaked the metering lever a smidge and it would run good for a brief period and then die like it was emptying the carb. A few pulls later it was running again and same thing. Put the stock parts back on and it was right back to running great again.

I ended up selling the saw and replacing it with an NOS 880 with cast muffler and it has been holding the shelf down now waiting for another monster tree to pop up so I havent even put it in wood yet to compare the power characteristics. This thread certainly has my interest though.


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## Mastermind (Feb 6, 2015)

Yo Ted.......

The pistons are the same......right down to having the same part numbers inside.


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## tacomatrd98 (Feb 6, 2015)

I prefer the Stihl approved wench.


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## Mastermind (Feb 6, 2015)

She's sorta boney.....





OK, who am I kidding? That's just fine.


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## big t double (Feb 6, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Yo Ted.......
> 
> The pistons are the same......right down to having the same part numbers inside.


Well poop on a platter. I even checked today..old version was back ordered and new version was in stock at the distributor. No supersedes either. I can't remember the part numbers off my head...gimme a few and I'll go downstairs and get on the computer. Shark tank is on now. Only show on TV I like. Good to know though...the prices were the same too.


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## Deets066 (Feb 6, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> I use her a lot.


Hey Randy, could you get a picture of her holdin muh 088!


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## Sprintcar (Feb 6, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> She's sorta boney.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nothing a couple of happy meals and some Chinese food wouldn't cure, might make her gassy.

Now to some serious stuff.

I bought a box of 084 about five years ago and rebuilt it. new seals, piston, cylinder, blah, blah, blah. I have only used that big hummer twice. One was for a big sycamore stump and the other time was a big white oak. One has to have a need for a saw that big but I look forward to the magic coming out of Tennessee on these two.

I should have sent him another box of 084, wait a minute, somebody missing fingers already did that.


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## Deets066 (Feb 6, 2015)

Sprintcar said:


> Nothing a couple of happy meals and some Chinese food wouldn't cure, might make her gassy.
> 
> Now to some serious stuff.
> 
> ...


I use mine quite a bit, we sometimes get calls from tree companies that get involved in trees that are to big for them to handle. 

Can't wait to see how she handles dem big logs after she gets back from Tennessee


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## Turbo BBQ (Feb 6, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> She's sorta horney.....



fix


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## treeslayer2003 (Feb 6, 2015)

i am some what contemplating one of these..........prefer an 084.
how many cc?


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## Deets066 (Feb 6, 2015)

I went lookin out on my bench, ( I write a lot of notes on my bench) I had 12,300 wrote down for rpm on the 088


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## mdavlee (Feb 6, 2015)

treeslayer2003 said:


> i am some what contemplating one of these..........prefer an 084.
> how many cc?


122


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## tree monkey (Feb 6, 2015)

these things done yet?

whats taken so long?

quit looking at the girly pics, yer too old fer dem.


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## Sprintcar (Feb 6, 2015)

About the biggest I need to run anymore are the 066's and maybe the 394. Them long bars make you forget and sometimes stick the snout in the dirt. Nothing pisses ya off like sticking your snout in the dirt with new chain.


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## big t double (Feb 6, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Yo Ted.......
> 
> The pistons are the same......right down to having the same part numbers inside.


Okie doke...OE piston part number 1124 030 2007..here's a media cat screen shot



Then the NE version...1124 030 2002



It's cool you have these apart to be able to see there's actually no real difference. It makes dorks like me better at my job...but what a ruse. Thanks mm.


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## Mastermind (Feb 7, 2015)

You're not a dork Ted. 

Thomas1.......now that guy is a dork.


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## tree monkey (Feb 7, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> You're not a dork Ted.
> 
> Thomas1.......now that guy is a dork.



do you know what time it is?


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## Mastermind (Feb 7, 2015)

Meh.....

I've been watchin TV with the little woman.....

She keeps muh feet warm and stuff.


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## tree monkey (Feb 7, 2015)

feet?

it's monkey time


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## Mastermind (Feb 7, 2015)

Warm feet is just a bonus.


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## tacomatrd98 (Feb 7, 2015)

Rise and shine gentleman...Where's the videos at?


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## big t double (Feb 7, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> You're not a dork Ted.
> 
> Thomas1.......now that guy is a dork.


Hey...that guy owes me a saw!!!


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## Mastermind (Feb 7, 2015)

tacomatrd98 said:


> Rise and shine gentleman...Where's the videos at?



Tough crowd. 

I've got got these saws apart on the bench. Normally I start a thread when they are done.......not this time. lol


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## RedneckChainsawRepair (Feb 7, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> I'm gonna go get some Chinese food........I'll be back later.




Same here yesterday. Crab legs, frog legs, mussels, scallops, shrimp, etc etc etc hmmmm hmmmmm Then get home to top it all off with some blackberry wine.


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## Mastermind (Feb 7, 2015)

Looking at these piston very closely makes me think that the scuffing was caused from over heating. The machine marks are worn almost completely away on both pistons.


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## Mastermind (Feb 7, 2015)

I've buffed both pistons, and see no reason to replace them. If overheating caused this scuffing a little more clearance will likely be a good thing.


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## Mastermind (Feb 7, 2015)

I've got a lot of these big saws to do this weekend.....

An MS880, 088, and two 084s.





All the pistons are the same Ted.....

I wonder if they addressed the scuffing in the newest version by making the piston a little smaller?


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## Mastermind (Feb 7, 2015)

No.......they all measure the same. Weird.


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## big t double (Feb 7, 2015)

good to know....thanks for checkin....I wonder why the different part numbers. weight maybe? im stretchin, I know. im shutting up now and enjoying the show.


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## Mastermind (Feb 7, 2015)

I have no idea........TreeMonkey might. He's smarter than I am.


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## Mastermind (Feb 7, 2015)

What do you think about buffing and reusing these pistons? You can still see the scuffing, but can't even feel it with a fingernail.


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## big t double (Feb 7, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> What do you think about buffing and reusing these pistons? You can still see the scuffing, but can't even feel it with a fingernail.



this



Mastermind said:


> I have no idea........TreeMonkey might. He's smarter than I am.



im not sure what the spec is on max clearance from skirt to cylinder wall...whats your measurement?


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## blsnelling (Feb 7, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> The MS361 coil works like a charm.


Thanks for sharing that Randy. I'm glad to see that someone finally tried it. That's been kicked around forever now, but so few of these have been modded.


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## Mastermind (Feb 7, 2015)

Less than .003


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## Mastermind (Feb 7, 2015)

blsnelling said:


> Thanks for sharing that Randy. I'm glad to see that someone finally tried it. That's been kicked around forever now, but so few of these have been modded.



Well, let's not celebrate just yet.........I've only ran it for a few minutes. A more in depth test is coming.


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## blsnelling (Feb 7, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Well, let's not celebrate just yet.........I've only ran it for a few minutes. A more in depth test is coming.


Well, it's a good sign anyway.


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## big t double (Feb 7, 2015)

im letting an 056mag ride at .0027 that the piston got the sand/buff treatment...but I have no choice. gonna try and test run this weekend if I get time. id like to think youll be ok....but I know theres more experienced guys on here than myself that work on/build saws...they should chime in.


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## Mastermind (Feb 7, 2015)

What is the piston skirt clearance spec?


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## big t double (Feb 7, 2015)

stand by...ill check and see if its stated in the 084 service manual, i think I gotta get the micro fiche machine out for that one. I don't see it given in the 880 service manual ...to be honest ive never seen it given in any stihl service book. IN THE MEAN TIME SOMEONE SMARTER THAN ME CAN CHIME IN!!! im just a dumbass parts guy.


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## Mastermind (Feb 7, 2015)

Yo Brad......

You know that clearance spec?


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## Mastermind (Feb 7, 2015)

For a Yamaha with a 60mm bore. 

.0023


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## big t double (Feb 7, 2015)

is that max? 084 book don't say...even checked 051/75/76 for poops and giggles...nothing.


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## Mastermind (Feb 7, 2015)

That was just a clearance I found given for a new Wisco piston......60mm

I think we are in good shape on skirt clearance.


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## big t double (Feb 7, 2015)

Rock'n roll


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## redfin (Feb 7, 2015)

Are you using feeler gauge to measure?


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## Mastermind (Feb 7, 2015)

Yes sir.


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## mdavlee (Feb 7, 2015)

If I remember right Adam always said .0025-.003" is what you want. Shaun would know as well


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## Trx250r180 (Feb 7, 2015)

32 to 1 ,no more exhaust scuffs for me


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## Mastermind (Feb 7, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> 32 to 1 ,no more exhaust scuffs for me



Hello Belray


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## redfin (Feb 7, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Hello Belray



You sure about that?


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## Mastermind (Feb 7, 2015)

Well........I'm using Mobil One @ 32:1 right now. lol


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## Deets066 (Feb 7, 2015)

The last three tanks through that 088 were belray at 32:1, before that it was 50:1 but always synthetic. It will be for sure 32:1 from here on out


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## Deets066 (Feb 7, 2015)

Along with this


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## Trx250r180 (Feb 7, 2015)

Deets066 said:


> The last three tanks through that 088 were belray at 32:1, before that it was 50:1 but always synthetic. It will be for sure 32:1 from here on out


I had a problem at 50 to 1 with high compression 440 hybrid once ,scored the exhaust ,32 to 1 now for a couple years now ,not a problem since ,this is my personal experience ,there are tons of saws running 50 to 1 daily and no problems ,looks like we have an official oil thread guys


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## redfin (Feb 7, 2015)

Randy started it.


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## treeslayer2003 (Feb 7, 2015)

so are the older 084s the exact same specs? cc, porting, etc???


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## mdavlee (Feb 7, 2015)

treeslayer2003 said:


> so are the older 084s the exact same specs? cc, porting, etc???


Cc yes. There's some differences in port timing. The one Nate661 has for sale is a nice one.


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## Mastermind (Feb 7, 2015)

Deets066 said:


> The last three tanks through that 088 were belray at 32:1, before that it was 50:1 but always synthetic. It will be for sure 32:1 from here on out



If this were my saw.......it would be run on Belray H1R @ 32:1 only. 



Deets066 said:


> Along with thisView attachment 401703



Without this stuff. 



treeslayer2003 said:


> so are the older 084s the exact same specs? cc, porting, etc???



Later today I'll post timing numbers for all three......


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## Deets066 (Feb 7, 2015)

I usually just give a little squeeze in a 2 1/2 gallon can of the Lucas


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## mdavlee (Feb 7, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> If this were my saw.......it would be run on Motul 800 @ 32:1 only.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Fixed


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## Deets066 (Feb 7, 2015)

You mean this stuff, I got some a while back but haven't tried it yet


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## Mastermind (Feb 7, 2015)

The Motul is just as good as Belray. 

Port timing is within a degree on the 084, 088, and 880.


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## redfin (Feb 7, 2015)

mdavlee said:


> Fixed



Dang you Michael! I bought 64oz of K2 and have been running that on your recommend. Which btw I like.


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## Mastermind (Feb 7, 2015)

OIL THREAD !!!!!!!!!!


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## STEVEGODSEYJR (Feb 7, 2015)

where do you buy the bell right 2 cycle oil at.... Just wondering


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## mdavlee (Feb 7, 2015)

redfin said:


> Dang you Michael! I bought 64oz of K2 and have been running that on your recommend. Which btw I like.


It's good stuff. I'm using motul right now. The smell is about the same and it seems to be as good as any of them.


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## epicklein22 (Feb 7, 2015)

I was told at redmax school the other day you can run a saw lean by having too much oil. With oil being thicker, it can have a harder time going through ports in the carb, causing the lean condition. They tested their oil and it survived at 300:1. I'm running my stuff at 40:1 with any synthetic oil. I'm a big fan of red armor from shindaiwa. I've torn down two saws using it and everything is coated perfectly in red oil. No excessive oil either.

Also, with the Stihl parts pricing, you guys weren't joking about a price decrease. Pistons were anywhere from 25 to 50 something. Long blocks were around $150. Pro saw topends in the low 200's. HD2 air filter is $26, compared to $42 just a month or so ago.


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## Sprintcar (Feb 7, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> OIL THREAD !!!!!!!!!!



I were hoping to see them bad xxx Tennessee snorting ground pounders and all I gots is a frippin oil thread?

Phtttttttttt, time fer a nap.


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## Mastermind (Feb 7, 2015)

This is the rule I use with oils. Any OE oil (Stihl, Husky, Echo, etc) I use 40:1, with other oils (Belray, Motul, Maxima, etc) I use 32:1. 

I buy my oils on ebay.


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## Mastermind (Feb 7, 2015)

They ain't gonna be done till maybe tomorrow nite Jerry. I'm doing 4 of the big bastards......


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## Nitroman (Feb 7, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> This is the rule I use with oils. Any OE oil (Stihl, Husky, Echo, etc) I use 40:1, with other oils (Belray, Motul, Maxima, etc) I use 32:1.
> 
> I buy my oils on ebay.



Let me send you a quart of Blendzall to try.


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## blsnelling (Feb 7, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Yo Brad......
> 
> You know that clearance spec?


Sorry, I do not.


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## blsnelling (Feb 7, 2015)

epicklein22 said:


> Also, with the Stihl parts pricing, you guys weren't joking about a price decrease. Pistons were anywhere from 25 to 50 something. Long blocks were around $150. Pro saw topends in the low 200's. HD2 air filter is $26, compared to $42 just a month or so ago.


This is FANTASTIC news!


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## Sprintcar (Feb 7, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> They ain't gonna be done till maybe tomorrow nite Jerry. I'm doing 4 of the big bastards......



No hurry Randy, had Chinese fer lunch today, even the neighbors dog won't hang around me for some reason. Maybe need to works on my attitude and stand downwind from everybody for the rest of the day.

Now about that nap I was getting too.


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## Deets066 (Feb 7, 2015)

I'm thinkin new piston Randy, only 60 bucks, sounds like a no brainer to me.


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## Mastermind (Feb 7, 2015)

Nitroman said:


> Let me send you a quart of Blendzall to try.



I'm game. 

Thanks Roger........you are a good one. 



Deets066 said:


> I'm thinkin new piston Randy, only 60 bucks, sounds like a no brainer to me.



Works for me........I'll get one on the way Monday.


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## Pud (Feb 7, 2015)

Is the squish clearence similar between the 084 and 088 ?


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## Mastermind (Feb 7, 2015)

Yes sir.


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## Pud (Feb 7, 2015)

Chamber volume the same ? Just curious i always seem to think 088's feel like they have more comp when srarting them


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## Mastermind (Feb 7, 2015)

Tough to say without ccing them. The 084 does look a little deeper.


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## Pud (Feb 7, 2015)

Good enuff for me , thankyou sir


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## Deets066 (Feb 7, 2015)

Either of the 084's gettin fingers?


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## MarylandGuy (Feb 7, 2015)

Nitroman said:


> Let me send you a quart of Blendzall to try.



I love the smell of Blendzall caster oils. Reminds me of my youth racing motocross. 

Now the sad part. I bought a bottle a few years ago and have been known to put a little in my mower from time to time to experience the smell again. I just don't trust it in my saws.

Kind of a sad way to relive my youth. I suppose there are worse ways to remember the past.


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## Mastermind (Feb 7, 2015)

Deets066 said:


> Either of the 084's gettin fingers?



No sir.....


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## sawfun (Feb 7, 2015)

Funny Marylandguy, I did the exact same lawnmower/Blendzall thing last summer for the same reason. It started much easier with synthetic though.


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## blsnelling (Feb 7, 2015)

$60 for an OEM 084/088/880 piston???!!!!


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## Deets066 (Feb 7, 2015)

What kind of compression you expecting to get out of these hogs? I'm thinkin this will be the only saw I actually use the decomp on


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## Deets066 (Feb 7, 2015)

blsnelling said:


> $60 for an OEM 084/088/880 piston???!!!!


Yup


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## Pud (Feb 7, 2015)

I paid $250 for an 084 piston after 15% off  id take a piston and a jug if there any where near that


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## Deets066 (Feb 7, 2015)

Pud said:


> I paid $250 for an 084 piston after 15% off  id take a piston and a jug if there any where near that


That's cheap compared to the clutch that I bought for the 090


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## MarylandGuy (Feb 7, 2015)

sawfun said:


> Funny Marylandguy, I did the exact same lawnmower/Blendzall thing last summer for the same reason. It started much easier with synthetic though.



Brothers from a different mother.


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## Mastermind (Feb 7, 2015)

Deets066 said:


> What kind of compression you expecting to get out of these hogs? I'm thinkin this will be the only saw I actually use the decomp on



185 - 195psi

Too much compression will make too much heat on a saw this size.


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## big t double (Feb 7, 2015)

Deets066 said:


> That's cheap compared to the clutch that I bought for the 090


And these have not come down in price either.


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## Deets066 (Feb 7, 2015)

Hopefully I don't ever have to buy another


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## Mastermind (Feb 7, 2015)

Keep several on hand. 














Just kidding. lol


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## Nitroman (Feb 7, 2015)

MarylandGuy said:


> I love the smell of Blendzall caster oils. Reminds me of my youth racing motocross.
> 
> Now the sad part. I bought a bottle a few years ago and have been known to put a little in my mower from time to time to experience the smell again. I just don't trust it in my saws.
> 
> Kind of a sad way to relive my youth. I suppose there are worse ways to remember the past.



I bought two cases of gallons to use in my 1999 Polaris XCR-800 as an injector oil. I used it in this capacity in temps down to about -15*F. After mixing some in gas and see it slowly separate, I went back to Polaris VES. I use it in my saws in the summer, and there is no reason you can't use it down to about +30*F, it will mix. Also, this won't gum up the rings like straight castor.

I mix it with 100LL and it smells great. I bet it would smell even better with race gas, but the Polaris shop wants about $13 per gallon of 110.


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## Deets066 (Feb 7, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Keep several on hand.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I paid less for my 034 super than that 090 clutch


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## big t double (Feb 7, 2015)

**** I don't doubt that!!! I'd trade a 034 for a 090 clutch hahaha.


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## treeslayer2003 (Feb 7, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> This is the rule I use with oils. Any OE oil (Stihl, Husky, Echo, etc) I use 40:1, with other oils (Belray, Motul, Maxima, etc) I use 32:1.
> 
> I buy my oils on ebay.


i do some where between 40 and 32-1 stihl oil. never had a problem. that 044 jug i showed you has super high hours.........however, i never tune a saw to scream. maybe i would get more out of one a bit leaner but just can't make mah self do it.
i chuckle just a bit when y'all talk of these fancy oils lol.


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## Four Paws (Feb 7, 2015)

blsnelling said:


> $60 for an OEM 084/088/880 piston???!!!!



Dealer cost on a top end was $263 back in '06.

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/new-ms880-088-piston-cylinder-dealer-cost.35375/


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## 295 tramp (Feb 7, 2015)

A new 084 oem jug and slug will cost 4 bills with tax.
Hey Randy those 2 084 jugs look familiar.


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## Adirondackstihl (Feb 8, 2015)

Nitroman said:


> I bought two cases of gallons to use in my 1999 Polaris XCR-800 as an injector oil. I used it in this capacity in temps down to about -15*F. After mixing some in gas and see it slowly separate, I went back to Polaris VES. I use it in my saws in the summer, and there is no reason you can't use it down to about +30*F, it will mix. Also, this won't gum up the rings like straight castor.
> 
> I mix it with 100LL and it smells great. I bet it would smell even better with race gas, but the Polaris shop wants about $13 per gallon of 110.


VES GOLD is probably the best smelling stuff I know of besides 927.
Used to run that or Techniplate in my 583 Formula Z. I still have a qt of the VES left. You say you run the VES in yer saws?
I thought it was a TCW3 oil?


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## Nitroman (Feb 8, 2015)

Oh no, I use the Blendzall in my saws and went back to VES in my snogo's. I still have a couple gallons of Blendzall left. Between those and the two cases of Husky Super-synthetic I bought of eBay a couple years ago, I am set for at least a year or so.


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## Mad Professor (Feb 8, 2015)

Since P/C clearance was mentioned............

Did the 084/088/880 series ever have the A , B, A/B piston and cylinder sizing used on lots of other sthil saws?


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## Mad Professor (Feb 8, 2015)

A bit off topic.......

But since stihl parts prices have come down anybody have current price for 026 (44mm) and 034 (46mm) pistons?


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## Mastermind (Feb 8, 2015)

295 tramp said:


> A new 084 oem jug and slug will cost 4 bills with tax.
> Hey Randy those 2 084 jugs look familiar.



They should. 



Mad Professor said:


> Since P/C clearance was mentioned............
> 
> Did the 084/088/880 series ever have the A , B, A/B piston and cylinder sizing used on lots of other sthil saws?



Yes, that same sizing applies to these saws as well. 

The pistons here are all A/B


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## Deets066 (Feb 8, 2015)

Randy must be hard at it for this thread to be quiet lol. That's ok though!


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## William Balaska (Feb 8, 2015)

295 tramp said:


> A new 084 oem jug and slug will cost 4 bills with tax.
> Hey Randy those 2 084 jugs look familiar.


Nothing like a nice pair of jugs!


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## William Balaska (Feb 8, 2015)

Another nice pair of jugs with an 090 clutch stuck between them.


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## big t double (Feb 8, 2015)

William Balaska said:


> Another nice pair of jugs with an 090 clutch stuck between them.View attachment 402018


How much for that clutch?


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## William Balaska (Feb 8, 2015)

big t double said:


> How much for that clutch?


Not for sale sir. It's a new old stock spare.


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## Sprintcar (Feb 8, 2015)

Deets066 said:


> Randy must be hard at it for this thread to be quiet lol. That's ok though!



Shhhhh, nap time on the Cumberland plateau.


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## Mastermind (Feb 8, 2015)

I'm here now......


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## Deets066 (Feb 8, 2015)

How dems big ole hogs comin long?
Any fancy port work pics yet


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## VinceGU05 (Feb 8, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> That was just a clearance I found given for a new Wisco piston......60mm
> 
> I think we are in good shape on skirt clearance.


i gotta NOS 084 piston here. need a measurement still?


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## big t double (Feb 8, 2015)

VinceGU05 said:


> i gotta NOS 084 piston here. need a measurement still?


Post it up!!!


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## Mastermind (Feb 8, 2015)

I measured a NOS 084, 088, and a 880 piston.........all the same. 

Not done yet.......close, but not quite finished. Remember, I was doing 4 jugs.


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## Deets066 (Feb 8, 2015)

Ya ever played with 4 jugs that big at once before?


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## Mastermind (Feb 8, 2015)

Deets066 said:


> Ya ever played with 4 jugs that big at once before?




Yeah.....but don't tell muh wife.


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## Dieselshawn (Feb 9, 2015)

Mastermind: 185-190 psi compression? Anymore makes too much heat? 
Diesel fuel should work good as a fuel instead of gas then.....

My logging buddies ran their 088 on diesel for 20 mins one time after the gas bar attendant accidently put that fuel in their saw can..... 

Saw even smoked like a diesel.... 

Not quite as much power but it ran 20 mins with no issues. 

Then they smelled the can.....


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## lovetheoutdoors (Feb 9, 2015)

Randy would you prefer to port a 084, 088 or a 880?


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## Mastermind (Feb 9, 2015)

lovetheoutdoors said:


> Randy would you prefer to port a 084, 088 or a 880?



No real difference.


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## lovetheoutdoors (Feb 9, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> No real difference.



I know there all very similar. Wasnt sure if you got better gains from one more than the other.


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## Mastermind (Feb 9, 2015)

The 084 is always the same......the 088/880 can be different. Coils, carbs, etc....


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## Mastermind (Feb 9, 2015)

Keith's 088....


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## Deets066 (Feb 9, 2015)




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## Mastermind (Feb 9, 2015)

I ordered you a new piston this morning Keith. It will be at the dealer tomorrow, and then will be sent on the me. I should have it in hand by the end of the week.


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## 295 tramp (Feb 9, 2015)

man that sure is purdy.
I chomping at the bit two see my pair.


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## Mastermind (Feb 9, 2015)

They are boxed up.......ready to go. 

The used jug is as slick as I can make it. The piston drops in with no resistance at all. The only thing that could be an issue with it is if the plating tries peeling above the exhaust. I don't really think it will though. Keep an eye on it for a few tanks........and keep me in the loop.


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## big t double (Feb 9, 2015)

who in the hell's keith? hahaha


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## Mastermind (Feb 9, 2015)

Some chit head.


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## JBA (Feb 9, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Yeah.....but don't tell muh wife.


I don't tell my wife anything. She already knows too much about me. If she knew half of what I did in the past she would run away right now.


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## Deets066 (Feb 9, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Some chit head.


I'm not tryin to confuse ya now but my nickname is Deeter, which most people know me as. Quite a few of my friends don't even know my real name. Even some of my teachers in school didn't know my name. Not that I made it easy for them


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## Deets066 (Feb 9, 2015)

Randy, you goin to have any wood worthy enough to test these beasts out in?


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## VinceGU05 (Feb 10, 2015)

wish i could send him some good old dead red gum. but shipping would be exxy.


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## Mastermind (Feb 10, 2015)

Nothing worthy Deets.....

But I have a 18" bar and a 10 pin rim.


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## sawfun (Feb 10, 2015)

Gee Randy, everybody knows that a 16" 12 pin 3/8 picco is the hot setup or better yet, 1/4" 15 pin .


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## Stihlman441 (Feb 10, 2015)

VinceGU05 said:


> wish i could send him some good old dead red gum. but shipping would be exxy.


 
Dry Yellowbox would fix him up.


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## User Name Here (Feb 10, 2015)

Stihlman441 said:


> Dry Yellowbox would fix him up.


personally I prefer wet pink box.... but I think we're probably talkin' about something altogether different....


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## Ron660 (Feb 10, 2015)

Stihlman441 said:


> Dry Yellowbox would fix him up.


The best I remember the Australian Buloke is the hardest of all trees with a rating over 5000 lbf on the JANKA hardness test. Hickories are around 1800. A MM 880 7-pin with a 36" bar with a .404 chain might be the ticket for that Australian tree.


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## Stihlman441 (Feb 11, 2015)

Just to give you guys and idear what the differance is between Oak and Yellowbox and its green un seasoned.
Ported 441 with a 28''


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## Deets066 (Feb 11, 2015)

I bet it last a long time in the wood burner though!
Nice vid


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## MarkEagleUSA (Feb 11, 2015)

Stihlman441 said:


> Just to give you guys and idear what the differance is between Oak and Yellowbox and its green un seasoned.
> Ported 441 with a 28''


Amazing difference in the chips!


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## Raganr (Feb 11, 2015)

Stihlman441 said:


> Just to give you guys and idear what the differance is between Oak and Yellowbox and its green un seasoned.
> Ported 441 with a 28''




Cutting that stuff would take all the fun out of cutting wood.


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## Ron660 (Feb 11, 2015)

Raganr said:


> Cutting that stuff would take all the fun out of cutting wood.


 And swinging a maul trying to split it.


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## Deets066 (Feb 11, 2015)

Had a chance to check out the 361 coil in the 880 yet Randy?


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## Mastermind (Feb 11, 2015)

I've been gone all day....


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## Mastermind (Feb 12, 2015)

Yo Deets......

Your muffler.


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## Deets066 (Feb 12, 2015)

Is that goin to be loud? I don't like loud saws.


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## Mastermind (Feb 12, 2015)

You are so phucked then.


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## showrguy (Feb 12, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> You are so phucked then.


That made me laugh REALLY LOUD, and I'm all by myself...!!!!!!!
Is that weird ??


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## Mastermind (Feb 12, 2015)

Naw man.


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## Deets066 (Feb 13, 2015)

You got one a dem bad boys runnin yet


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## Mastermind (Feb 13, 2015)

I've been busy with some NOS 346s.....

Sorta wanna get your piston, and compare the two.....


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## Tree Sling'r (Feb 14, 2015)

Your liking the finger ports Randy, most saws getting them?


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## Mastermind (Feb 14, 2015)

Not many really Jasha.


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## Deets066 (Feb 26, 2015)

Let me get this one back up to the top for ya Randy


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## Mastermind (Feb 26, 2015)

Well, I never was able to compare the two saws side by side. The MS880 has gone home.


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## Deets066 (Feb 26, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> Well, I never was able to compare the two saws side by side. The MS880 has gone home.


That would have been interesting to see, oh well. Let me know what I owe ya for that piston.


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## Mastermind (Feb 26, 2015)

I don't even know yet Deets. I'll call tomorrow and find out. 

I will tell you this......the MS880 with the smaller carb and boot was a bad dude. I tuned it to 13,000 with a 20" .404 and noodled up a pile of wood. Fun saw to run like that.


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## Deets066 (Feb 26, 2015)

I might try the 30" .404 that I have for it. It has the 8 pin on it now I beleive


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## big t double (Feb 26, 2015)

Deets066 said:


> I might try the 30" .404 that I have for it. It has the 8 pin on it now I beleive


Why not that 72" gb you got??


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## Deets066 (Feb 26, 2015)

big t double said:


> Why not that 72" gb you got??


I usually reserve that for the 090, and it's an 84" Ted, Geeesh get it right


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## big t double (Feb 26, 2015)

Welp...I never claimed to not be an idiot. 

See my secret plan was going like this...you run the big gb bar on the MASTERMIND PORTED 088...rendering the 090 useless...you sell the 090 to ted(me) for an extremely good price since you no longer need it. How'd I do?


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## Mastermind (Feb 26, 2015)

Repped


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## VinceGU05 (Feb 26, 2015)

if my MM084 that i got is anything to go by i reckon your chances are very high!


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## Mastermind (Feb 26, 2015)

How's that saw doing for you Vince?


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## VinceGU05 (Feb 26, 2015)

so far so good.. well awesome actually.. a 36" bar fully buried in pine was nothing for it. sat 9 -10k in the cut 
il send ya a vid link later.... i have a question about it.


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## sawfun (Feb 26, 2015)

Sorry guys, I have a Masterminded 088 and wonderful as it is, it ain't gonna render a 090 useless on bars 72" and longer. It doesn't have the same torque and its oiler would not keep up. 84 + inch is getting into 090g territory. And NO 088/880 is gonna best one of those with a long bar.


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## VinceGU05 (Feb 27, 2015)

Is there much torque difference between geared and non geared? 
Does a 088 have a manual oiler like a 084?


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## sawfun (Feb 27, 2015)

There is a big difference in torque between a 090g and non "g" direct drive. What will easily stop a direct drive saw will not even slow a gear drive down, of course they are slow enough anyway. The gear drive 090's are a 2:1 ratio. Most are 106cc's but some like mine are the full 137cc's.

The 084 has an oiler overide adustment like the 3120, not a manual oiler. The 088/880 is only an auto oiler. Mine seems maxed out running a 60" bar.


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## big t double (Feb 27, 2015)

sawfun said:


> Sorry guys, I have a Masterminded 088 and wonderful as it is, it ain't gonna render a 090 useless on bars 72" and longer. It doesn't have the same torque and its oiler would not keep up. 84 + inch is getting into 090g territory. And NO 088/880 is gonna best one of those with a long bar.


Hey!...you're not helping my cause.


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## Deets066 (Feb 27, 2015)

big t double said:


> Hey!...you're not helping my cause.


Yeah Ted I had it all set it my mind that I was goin to sell it to ya, until I read that post and realized that I had better hang on to it  You can come run it anytime though.


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## big t double (Feb 27, 2015)

see. thanks a lot sawfun....you've ruined it for me!!!


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## TBrown (Mar 12, 2015)

Randy, you know what the 880 coil limit is? The 361 coil work out for you ok? I am running a 361 coil and seems good. Tached at 13,300 with 25" bar. Scott did a hellavu job, pulls the 41" in red oak like nothing.


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## Mastermind (Mar 12, 2015)

I'm not sure what the limit is. 

Yep.......the 361 coil does the trick.


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## Deets066 (Mar 12, 2015)

Just in case you guys were wonderin the results of the 088, it is one bad a$$ dude!

I know..... I'll get a video this weekend maybe


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## Mastermind (Mar 12, 2015)

The one with the 361 coil is coming back for more tweaks. 

I'll likely finger port it like I did yours Deets....

He wants it to be faster than one of my 660s in small wood. That's a pretty tall order. 

I tried to get him to get a bobbed bar and a 12 pin.........but he's looking for more RPM. 

We shall see.


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## Deets066 (Mar 12, 2015)

Mine has good throttle response and still is very torquey in the wood with a buried 36" bar.


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## Deets066 (Mar 12, 2015)

Mastermind said:


> The one with the 361 coil is coming back for more tweaks.
> 
> I'll likely finger port it like I did yours Deets....
> 
> ...


Would angling the transfers upward increase flow and rpm? Lose torque, but he ain't lookin for that.


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## Mastermind (Mar 12, 2015)

I'm not sure really.......


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## Deets066 (Mar 12, 2015)

I'm pretty sure mine would take an 066/660 in 24" wood if the 066 had an 8 pin 3/8 and the 088 had 9 pin .404


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## Mastermind (Mar 12, 2015)

They were running 7 pin .404......I suggested a 9 .404


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