# mud.....



## chucker (Dec 7, 2015)

this has got to be the worst fall/winter for logging I have ever seen! it's the 7th of dec. and the ground is like early april with mud.... started at 7:30 this morning and the ground was reasonably hard with frost at 27 degrees. by noon the county shut me down for the day till things either dry up or freeze up. above normal temps for here till the 20th with rain coming! over night temps dip enough to stiffen things up for only 4 good hours of skidding till mud time again. hope not to many others are having to deal with this abnormal weather were having... bring on winter!!


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## 1270d (Dec 7, 2015)

We can't get into our winter job due to lack of snow. Need snow to fill in between the rocks before we can get in there. Currently able to cut and haul with no trouble though so we re enjoying the beautiful spring weather.


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## JMartin385 (Dec 7, 2015)

Having the same problem couple hours early morning get in a couple good skids then were knee deep our landing is a mud pit not to mention were getting bad runoff so that's not helping.


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## bnmc98 (Dec 7, 2015)

We have snow... and blowing snow... and more snow on top of that. And looks like more on the way. I spent two hours today plowing just to get into the landing.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Dec 7, 2015)

Not too much snow here, but the ground is froze about as hard as a wedding night boner.  I think it got up to 7* for a high today. Was -5* this morning. Up where we were pulling logs there was a 15-20mph breeze. Just enough to not be too fun.


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## chucker (Dec 7, 2015)

bnmc98 said:


> We have snow... and blowing snow... and more snow on top of that. And looks like more on the way. I spent two hours today plowing just to get into the landing.


!! PLEASE!! send us any snow and cold you figure you dont/wont need... lol


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## chucker (Dec 7, 2015)

ValleyFirewood said:


> Not too much snow here, but the ground is froze about as hard as a wedding night boner.  I think it got up to 7* for a high today. Was -5* this morning. Up where we were pulling logs there was a 15-20mph breeze. Just enough to not be too fun.


? so it's cool enough to keep the snow flea's and snakes at bay hey? cool breeze would be welcome at any time with your heat wave! good luck on your "HONEY MOON" ?? LOL


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## bnmc98 (Dec 8, 2015)

chucker said:


> !! PLEASE!! send us any snow and cold you figure you dont/wont need... lol



I don't mind the snow so much, its what the wind does with it. Blows constantly.  You can have the wind. Let me know when you want to come by and pick it up.


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## slowp (Dec 8, 2015)

Our mud problem might be in the form of landslides. I hope not.


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## chucker (Dec 8, 2015)

bnmc98 said:


> I don't mind the snow so much, its what the wind does with it. Blows constantly.  You can have the wind. Let me know when you want to come by and pick it up.


LOL I wont need to pick up the wind as it will be gusting by any moment ?? time will tell .


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## chucker (Dec 8, 2015)

slowp said:


> Our mud problem might be in the form of landslides. I hope not.


SLOWP, worried about the wet mud in rain country? there's a good place to stay safe on top of the goat rocks south of white pass.. standing on them will put you out of harms way with a view... LOL MERRY CHRISTMAS!


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## Frank Savage (Dec 8, 2015)

Similar problem here on the other side of the pond. Spring temps, occasional rain creating mud atop of still thirsty ground. I spent the sunday on a small thinning job one of my relatives bought standing-poorly managed spruce-fir-veymouth pine stand. I was rushing my ass off to get it all on the ground, because more rain is sheduled for this week, with some morning freezing-so the doghaired parts would be crown-frozen together. But except for some toothpicks I could pull out by hands, nothing more. I wish I had to put on the snowchains on that flat ground, much better than having close to zero traction on thin layers of defrosting sticky mud and soaking wet oak leaves all around-and that was just to get there.
Also I have some pretty steep hardwood grounds in focus, to cut here and there, very loose pattern and very selective, but no way how to get anything outta there without totaly frozen ground and 1 ft snow, except for on situ splited longbow blanks, one at a time...

ValleyFirewood: ROFL


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## slowp (Dec 8, 2015)

chucker said:


> SLOWP, worried about the wet mud in rain country? there's a good place to stay safe on top of the goat rocks south of white pass.. standing on them will put you out of harms way with a view... LOL MERRY CHRISTMAS!



Here is a map, so you can see the topography of our fair state. There seems to be a lack of info amongst the folks in the flatlands. We are getting what is called a Pineapple Express event. We had a snow pack up in the mountains. Now we are getting rains and warm temps that stream across the Pacific from Hawaii. That raises the snow level to 8000 feet elevation and causes the snow pack to melt quickly. That feeds into our rivers along with the heavy rains. The ground becomes saturated and unstable slopes move down hill. We had several slides block our access to the outside world in 2007. Nobody was killed, but there were some close calls and lots of damage. I don't like to joke about it, especially after the Oso slide. Such humor is in bad taste. Landslides are one of those things we have to live with to live here.


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## SliverPicker (Dec 8, 2015)

Its currently 45 here. It should be more like 25. I haven't been to the job site in two weeks due to broken machines so I don't know how life is at 9200 feet. Probably getting muddy even there.

Frank, that doesn't sound too fun.


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## Trx250r180 (Dec 8, 2015)

well at least it is raining so hard the mud rinses off you today .


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## slowp (Dec 8, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> well at least it is raining so hard the mud rinses off you today .



That was yesterday here, but it is darkening as I write.


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## Trx250r180 (Dec 8, 2015)

slowp said:


> That was yesterday here, but it is darkening as I write.


Ground is very saturated now ,i see new creeks i never saw along the road on the way to work today ,


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## big hank (Dec 8, 2015)

Montana's all soupy too
Goddam Al Gore is to blame for this..


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## slowp (Dec 8, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> Ground is very saturated now ,i see new creeks i never saw along the road on the way to work today ,



I just came in from diverting the creek that forms from the water coming off the shop and runs down my road. The downpour has arrived.


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## JMartin385 (Dec 8, 2015)

Today ended up being even worse here warmed up quite a bit and burnt off the frost in less than an hour up to my knees chaps weighed about 20 lbs hard to maintain a chain is those conditions.


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## slowp (Dec 8, 2015)

Here we go. 

222 PM PST Tue Dec 8 2015

The Flood Warning continues for
the Cowlitz river at Randle
* from 6 PM Tuesday until late Thursday night.
* At 2:00 PM Tuesday the stage was 16.0 feet.
* Flood stage is 18.0 feet.
* Major flooding is forecast.
* Forecast... the river will rise above flood stage around 6 PM
Tuesday and crest near 22.2 feet around 10 am Wednesday. The river
 will fall below flood stage Thursday evening.
* Impact... at 22.0 feet... the Cowlitz river will cause major flooding
from the vicinity of Randle downstream through Riffe Lake... with
dangerous inundation of many roads including US Highway 12...
residential and commercial areas... and farms. Flooding will occur
all along the river including headwaters... tributaries... and other
streams within and near the Cowlitz river basin.


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## chucker (Dec 8, 2015)

sounds like old times when the cowlitz was lapping at the allen street bridge in kelso, had to raise the bridge to let the junk flow through! alas, this is no more!


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## catbuster (Dec 9, 2015)

I'm not having a mud problem, but moreso that I told my guys we'd be done Dec. 1 and that's when my equipment lease was up. So they're just sort of making stuff happen with my smaller gear.


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## chucker (Dec 10, 2015)

catbuster said:


> I'm not having a mud problem, but moreso that I told my guys we'd be done Dec. 1 and that's when my equipment lease was up. So they're just sort of making stuff happen with my smaller gear.


kinda like doing the best with what you have instead of what you thought you had, that was'nt your's to begin with..... better to make a single dollar with the tools i have than to pay 3 dollars to make a dollar with someone else's tools that were not mine! nothing like working for someone else's dollar!


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## Jim Timber (Dec 10, 2015)

Doesn't look like next week is going to help either of us Dave. They just showed rain in the 80%'s for the next 9 days after tomorrow.


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## chucker (Dec 10, 2015)

more rain! just what we don't need!! with anymore rain, I wont need to bother the trucker to load an haul the 2 semi loads waiting on the deck now ... more rain I will be able to raft them to the mill.... lol


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## chucker (Dec 10, 2015)

if we are to get more rain jim, I will probably need to set up something like a stern wheeler boat to skid logs! just imagine the old allis d15 "FARMER LOGGER TRACTOR SKIDDER" with pontoons and a paddle wheel? what a sight. LOL


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## Jim Timber (Dec 10, 2015)

You've been busy!

Who's taking those logs?


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## chucker (Dec 10, 2015)

pont's logging mill in bowlus. worked steady since the mid summer storm with out much of a break till now? after the holiday's heading north to the border for some tree work around vermillion.... just need frozen ground and a little snow to make things slide easier an cleaner!


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## Jim Timber (Dec 10, 2015)

Is that a different Ponts than the Little Falls one?

The LF guy offered me $50 a cord in his yard for red oak on a trailer. When I questioned it he said half of them were usually rotten in the middle anyway. It was a few years ago, but stumpage was over $300/cord at the time.


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## chucker (Dec 10, 2015)

same outfit! good guy to deal with decent prices for the wood in quantity but not 100 cord lots!!so far done 3 contracts of 30 cord with 2 more to deal with by the end of the year. you would need to take him a load of your average/better stuff so he can judge the quality and deal from there! I have never seen stumpage go for 300.00 a cord! best could be around 125.00 per cord to buy from a source. 18.00 is common for less than grade and 40.00 for grade to veneer!


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## JMartin385 (Dec 10, 2015)

That is some nice looking timber chucked pretty similar to what I'm into right now if I could only keep it out of the mud I'd be set. Truck driver blew a hydraulic line yesterday said he would be back first thing this am never showed up and he's not into answering his phone so we kept stacking skids before we knew it out landing was stuffed to the point where we could fit another single log.


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## Jim Timber (Dec 10, 2015)

I probably caught him on a bad day. 

I'm not sure what the plan is for this winter. I got most of my road up to my high ground done, and can almost get a semi turned around in the "garden", but I don't know if I'm going to get serious about cutting and stacking wood, or if I'm gonna hole up and stay warm this winter.


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## chucker (Dec 10, 2015)

same here jm, the landing is full and no room to expand with out going to the next contract.... mud sucks big time!!! I want cold, snow and below freezing temps! I am tired of being a fair weather "FARMER LOGGER TRACTOR SKIDDER OPERATION" ... lol I like the eskimo operation lots better than muddddddd. in frozen conditions I can up production by 50% with out back sliding !!


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## Jim Timber (Dec 10, 2015)

I was making good progress pushing over a ridge into a gully when we got that 1.5" in 2 days and the deep freeze. I thought I was done earth moving for the winter and pretty much called it quits in the woods. Now everyone's whining about it being gooey and I have more trees I want to rip out by the roots. 

I'm ready for winter. Just get on with it so we can get it over with. I've got a couple cords stacked I'd like to spend a day or two bucking and splitting. No trouble getting pickups in and out of the yard anymore. Might as well sell what I have laying around anyways.


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## JMartin385 (Dec 10, 2015)

Yea chucker I'm ready for that frozen ground I have another 3000 board foot left on this contract then I'm moving on and I'm stuck waiting on trucking I literally have no room left either way I have to wait for the truck because my stacks are so wide I have to push the log s to the driver so he can reach them if not his truck would become a permanent part of the landing lol.


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## Jim Timber (Dec 15, 2015)

They're saying 30's again next week too now. Just can't get a break can ya?


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## chucker (Dec 15, 2015)

nope!


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## catbuster (Dec 18, 2015)

Lake affect snow warning here. Now... It's 35, so it'll be really wet soon. 

And... I disagree. When it doesn't make sense to buy your own tool, it makes lots of sense to pay to use someone else's tool if you'll be in it for less money than buying your own. I'll lease equipment for $75K/piece per year rather than go another $4.5M in debt. The economics of my business are probably much different than a tractor logger.


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## JMartin385 (Dec 18, 2015)

Shut down


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## chucker (Dec 18, 2015)

a good cold snap here for the last 2 nights with 3" of wet frozen snow helped out greatly! Monday morning the wood should fly down the skid road to the landing... hope the trucker keeps up! and shows up!!!! ???????


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## Jim Timber (Dec 18, 2015)

They're saying mid 30's starting sometime tomorrow down here. Hopefully it stays below freezing for ya up there. Should be really nice cutting weather anyway.


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## chucker (Dec 18, 2015)

yes sir! the warm/cold line usually runs right at st. cloud brainerd is a 5 to 10 degs. diff.


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## Jim Timber (Dec 18, 2015)

I've seen 4-5 degrees lower consistently from the Metro to my place up there. Frontal boundaries will effect that more, but for the quick and dirty it's 5 degrees colder at the cabin than at home.


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## chucker (Dec 18, 2015)

I hope it stays colder then they are predicting, as I don't need to loose 40.00 a thousand on account of some mud. even at 3' off the ground the tail drag is a itchB at 45' long. I have a couple of the whites that are 100 footers with a 8" top.





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## Jim Timber (Dec 18, 2015)

I suppose you couldn't leave enough limbs on the top to keep the trunk out of the mud til the landing?


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## chucker (Dec 18, 2015)

its an option, with adverse affect drag in an already tight space as dragging the mud like a plow in a gathering slop. sticks to everything.


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## Jim Timber (Dec 19, 2015)

I suppose it'd do a number on the trails too.


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## 1270d (Dec 19, 2015)

Two days in the twenties and under and our roads tightened right up. Trucks are close to 2000 tons behind. Time to play catch up...


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## Gologit (Dec 19, 2015)

Mud? We're supposed to get between four and seven inches of rain here between now and Monday. We just might have a little mud.


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## chucker (Dec 19, 2015)

Gologit said:


> Mud? We're supposed to get between four and seven inches of rain here between now and Monday. We just might have a little mud.


better then fire I would assume?


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## Trx250r180 (Dec 19, 2015)

chucker said:


> its an option, with adverse affect drag in an already tight space as dragging the mud like a plow in a gathering slop. sticks to everything.


When my roads are muddy ,i use the fir and cedar limbs to make a road so i do not sink so bad ,lay em across the road like building a bridge ,they will sink in the mud a little ,but your machine will quit tearing the skid road up so bad ,,if you skid the whole tree ,your chain on the saw will go dull real fast from the dirt buildup ,i would limb it right away myself .


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## chucker (Mar 8, 2016)

chucker said:


> this has got to be the worst fall/winter for logging I have ever seen! it's the 7th of dec. and the ground is like early april with mud.... started at 7:30 this morning and the ground was reasonably hard with frost at 27 degrees. by noon the county shut me down for the day till things either dry up or freeze up. above normal temps for here till the 20th with rain coming! over night temps dip enough to stiffen things up for only 4 good hours of skidding till mud time again. hope not to many others are having to deal with this abnormal weather were having... bring on winter!!


 this was a first and now there is a second! earliest deep mud season that I have ever seen!!! spring came early and half foot mud in only 2 days? calendar spring wont start for 12 days yet and I need to shut down "NOW" while the ground is still in good shape. waiting to use the new wood puller an it just don't get any better with time? it's not worth tearing up the ground for a few cords to maybe a good 8 cords on a better day of work ... small lot logging/select cutting, is not worth the hassle of repairing forest ground. road restrictions start a week from today if not sooner. half semi loads still cost the same as a full load for delivery! economics ?? just one! time to go "FISH".....


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## Jim Timber (Mar 9, 2016)

This has been an oddly rough - easy winter.  Was demonstrating the plug planting procedure for my tool I'm selling to a friend who was buying one this morning and hit frost at exactly 6" here in the metro. There's no good that'll come from putting weight on that saturated soil! I'm surprised it's that deep up there though. You guys have been on the other side of the fronts up until the last couple days, no? We've had above freezing overnight lows for a little over a week.

My fruit tree buddies are all afraid we're going to get hit with a late frost after the trees start to bud out thinking it's Spring.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Mar 9, 2016)

Froze here. I drove my truck across my yard with 3 yards of gravel, didn't even make a mark. Gotta haul a few more loads today (filling a sinkhole)


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## 1270d (Mar 9, 2016)

We had to pull the plug on Monday. Working some ground with quite a bit of clay. I went out to the job site with some reps today and it was a tough go in 4 wheel in the pickup. Hope it dries quick.


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## chucker (Mar 9, 2016)

Jim Timber said:


> This has been an oddly rough - easy winter.  Was demonstrating the plug planting procedure for my tool I'm selling to a friend who was buying one this morning and hit frost at exactly 6" here in the metro. There's no good that'll come from putting weight on that saturated soil! I'm surprised it's that deep up there though. You guys have been on the other side of the fronts up until the last couple days, no? We've had above freezing overnight lows for a little over a week.
> 
> My fruit tree buddies are all afraid we're going to get hit with a late frost after the trees start to bud out thinking it's Spring.


I know their fears... when I lived in the lower Yakima valley in Washington state we had fruit trees and it was a fear of frost every spring during bud/blossom time. for the cure it was spraying water, or using smudge pots to chase away the white demon! it was always figured that a thin layer of clear ice was better than a lite coat of frost?....


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## chucker (Mar 9, 2016)

1270d said:


> We had to pull the plug on Monday. Working some ground with quite a bit of clay. I went out to the job site with some reps today and it was a tough go in 4 wheel in the pickup. Hope it dries quick.


long term forecast is for drier then normal but with any areas of a deeper frost the little rain we do get will either make for frost holes or later mud traps and both! tried to do a little work on a north facing slop but no good! we are doomed till drier times....


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## 1270d (Mar 9, 2016)

Lucky for us it was a super warm winter so the frost levels aren't very deep. The road system we re on now has only been free of snow for maybe a month so it's lucky to have a foot of frost. Shouldnt take more than three weeks or so ad long as ma nature doesn't get grumpy


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## chucker (Mar 9, 2016)

1270d said:


> Lucky for us it was a super warm winter so the frost levels aren't very deep. The road system we re on now has only been free of snow for maybe a month so it's lucky to have a foot of frost. Shouldnt take more than three weeks or so ad long as ma nature doesn't get grumpy


true! but! it's march acting like mid april so what's to come in april showers?


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## chucker (Mar 14, 2016)

MUD, why can't natures mud be more like concrete mud? gets hard in the ground or under water! no more problems with muck & mire with heavy working equipment and all the finer things that we use in the chase for logs/firewood! just a thought? lol


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## Jim Timber (Mar 15, 2016)

I saw a big improvement from Friday to today at my place. Cut 2 deep ruts getting up the hill Friday, then didn't leave much more than a well defined track today choosing a new path for contrast.

Still hard about 4" down though. These cool nights aren't helping pull the drain plug out so the water can sink if it's not going to run off.


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## chucker (Mar 15, 2016)

the mud hole is starting to show top improvement, as soon as you step onto the ground it's squish like cow pie's... hard on the outside and soft beneath ...


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## chucker (Mar 29, 2016)

pulp, saw logs, firewood and a few lots to clean up again this spring from last years big blow storm.... mud has started to dry up so business as usual! good to be back into action....


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## svk (Mar 29, 2016)

Some good looking Norways there @chucker ! Hope the mud is gone by you. Up north keeps getting snow so everything has been on hold for almost a month.

When they cut over here they always leave trees like that standing all alone in the middle of the slashing. Then the winds come through and a good number of them tip over. I have turned a few that had immediate pickup access into boiler wood. Darn things hold water like a sponge until you get them split up!


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## chucker (Apr 25, 2016)

short lived dry spell was nice! now back to reality for a few days of liquid sunshine... another load of pulp leaving for the sappi yard, with one load of big tooth bolts heading to the cloquet mill.


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## Jim Timber (Apr 26, 2016)

Some good looking stacks there Dave!


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## chucker (Apr 26, 2016)

THANK'S ! jim, it's been a bear trying to keep it clean with the mud conditions,,,,


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## chucker (May 11, 2016)

Monday next week the last of the big storm damaged tree cleanup job will be done. last 5 semi loads went out yesterday and last load(5th this month) on mon.next! hardwood firewood from now till the end of june ! Canada, here I come for a week of fishing fun in the sun (7/5-7/12).......


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## svk (May 11, 2016)

For once I'm happy to see rain. I noticed the DNR fire danger sign in Cloquet dropped from "extreme" to "moderate".

Are you heading east anytime soon? I'd love to grab that Mac bar from you.


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## Jim Timber (May 11, 2016)

Was super dusty at my place the last couple weeks. We need the water.


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## chucker (May 11, 2016)

svk said:


> For once I'm happy to see rain. I noticed the DNR fire danger sign in Cloquet dropped from "extreme" to "moderate".
> 
> Are you heading east anytime soon? I'd love to grab that Mac bar from you.


the earliest time for now is the 5th of july when I head to Canada for some fishing.... ! "IF" i luck out and draw a bear tag i will be heading to your cabin way to check out the bear count.. so not till then as work is fast and crazy right now...


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## svk (May 11, 2016)

chucker said:


> the earliest time for now is the 5th of july when I head to Canada for some fishing.... ! "IF" i luck out and draw a bear tag i will be heading to your cabin way to check out the bear count.. so not till then as work is fast and crazy right now...


Sounds good. Let me know if your travel plan changes.


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