# New Career



## StihlPowerr (Nov 30, 2012)

Hello everybody I am new to this site. I have been in sales for a while and I miss working outdoors. I am 39 and I would like to become a Tree Climber or a lumberjack. I live in NJ but everyone is looking for someone with experience. I used to have my own landscaping company but I only removed small trees. I don't know what to do. I really would like to work in this field.


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## Zale (Dec 1, 2012)

I'm pretty sure the term "lumberjack" is not currently used to describe ones work description. How hard have you really looked? If you live in New Jersey and can't find a entry level job after Sandy, it might be you. Are you in shape? No arrests? Pass a whiz quiz? 

If you want to do this type of work, there are opportunities out there. If you are into pain and suffering, welcome!


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## RandyMac (Dec 1, 2012)

Oh dear, lumberjack, really?
Toss the I-fone, get a haircut and move out of Mom's garage. Oh and lose the pink tights.


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## tomtrees58 (Dec 1, 2012)

Are you in shape? No arrests? Pass a whiz quiz : by your age i had Ben climbing 25 years your old to start at 39:hmm3grin2orange:


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## StihlPowerr (Dec 1, 2012)

To many jackasses with dumb comments. Maybe I just have to be dumb like you guys to find a job in this business.


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## treemandan (Dec 1, 2012)

StihlPowerr said:


> To many jackasses with dumb comments. Maybe I just have to be dumb like you guys to find a job in this business.



I think you hit the nail on the head there sparky! Still want in?




Lumber jack song - YouTube


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## StihlPowerr (Dec 1, 2012)

treemandan said:


> I think you hit the nail on the head there sparky! Still want in?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your dam right I do. Lol!


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## Zale (Dec 1, 2012)

StihlPowerr said:


> To many jackasses with dumb comments. Maybe I just have to be dumb like you guys to find a job in this business.



Didn't mean to offend. I was serious about my questions. If you don't look like you're in shape, employers won't give you a shot. So answer the questions. Just curious how someone who is willing to do the work can't get work in a disaster area.


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## treeclimber101 (Dec 1, 2012)

Ohhhhh boy ! Are you sure that you've thought this threw !


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## StihlPowerr (Dec 1, 2012)

I am a strong guy 6-3 220ilbs i am in shape. Its just that everything is by email and they are only looking for guys that have 5 to 10 years experience its crazy. There even talking about paying people $200-$300 a day. I don't know how true that is. I wish I lived for in the North just to cut down trees instead of climbing them. I will even buy my own gear.


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## Gologit (Dec 1, 2012)

StihlPowerr said:


> To many jackasses with dumb comments. Maybe I just have to be dumb like you guys to find a job in this business.



You need to relax. These guys, in their own way, are trying to tell you something. You need to listen. 

They might not sugar coat what they have to say but there's not a one of them that will lie to you either.

If you want to get into the tree industry you might catch on with an outfit dragging brush and doing general labor. That's where you start. The guys on here can tell you all about it.

Forget entirely about being a "lumberjack". Nobody who knows anything uses that term anyway...at least not in my neighborhood.

So...hang out and learn a little and maybe do yourself some good. Or not. Your choice entirely.


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## StihlPowerr (Dec 1, 2012)

Nobody ever heard the term LUMBERJACK?


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## KenJax Tree (Dec 1, 2012)

StihlPowerr said:


> Nobody ever heard the term LUMBERJACK?



Paul Bunyon was a lumberjack we're arborists and loggers


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## rtsims (Dec 1, 2012)

StihlPowerr said:


> Nobody ever heard the term LUMBERJACK?



Of coarse we've herd of lumberjack. 
Your either a logger, faller, climber or groundie, that's around these parts anyway. Now there's obviously slang terms for all of these but we don't need to open that can.


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## StihlPowerr (Dec 1, 2012)

I guess it was a bad choice of words. Sorry. Lets get past it.


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## Gologit (Dec 1, 2012)

What kind of logging do you want to do?

Any specific goals? Any skills? Saw experience?

Can you work on steep ground? Can you operate heavy machinery like Cats or loaders? Can you splice line or rope or cable? Are you a mechanic of any kind? These are all valuable skills to have if you want to work in the woods.

Heat bother you? How about cold? Will you keep working in a pouring rain? Will you work in the snow? Any dust allergies?

How about a two hour commute, each way, that you don't get paid for? How about figuring the two hour commute was too much and camping on the ground all week? 

Rattlesnakes bother you? How 'bout bee stings? Hornet stings? Wasp stings? Poison oak?

If you're away from the city will you go into Latte withdrawal?

These are just the high points but it might give you some idea of what you'd face.


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## StihlPowerr (Dec 1, 2012)

Gologit said:


> What kind of logging do you want to do?
> 
> Any specific goals? Any skills? Saw experience?
> 
> ...


Wow great questions.
I did own my own landscaping company for a couple of years before the economy went to crap. I have used a chainsaw and axe before. I am not a pro with the saw but I respect the saw and take it very seriously. I have know problem using heavy equipment. I am not a mechanic. 

I don't mind working in tough conditions. I won't stop working if its raining or snowing. The commuting sucks because I was an outside salesman and I drove for a longtime.
There are no rattlesnakes where I am. I can handle the bugs.
I love the country and the woods I won't miss the city.


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## RandyMac (Dec 1, 2012)

Quit bein' reasonable Gologit, I was waiting for his head to explode.

It is tough to get a start, it was so in the 1970s, more so now.

Give Montana a look.


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## StihlPowerr (Dec 1, 2012)

RandyMac said:


> Quit bein' reasonable Gologit, I was waiting for his head to explode.
> 
> It is tough to get a start, it was so in the 1970s, more so now.
> 
> Give Montana a look.


I would love to live in Montana. Since the storm hit we have guys coming coming from all over the country because there is no work in there states. We had companies from Wisconsin come here. Great guys to very nice people.


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## LelandJF (Dec 2, 2012)

*Secondary Income*

I don't plan on leaving my current career, but I do plan to try my hand at running a very small time tree service. Since you already had your own business, maybe this route would work for you as well. This is my current plan, but may be modified.

I have a few of my own saws from a limbing saw, a pole saw, and a couple 14/16" saws, up to my largest being an MS290. No professional fleet, but they all start and cut. I have a pickup and trailers for hauling brush/limbs (one is a strong but small dump trailer). I plan on getting insurance and probably will start an LLC after more research into the business end of things. When money allows, I'll decide on what to purchase first: 6" chipper, sc252/352 sized grinder, telephone company type 30' bucket truck, mason dump truck, etc.


I am very comfortable cutting and working with trees in my yard and family members' yards, especially after Sandy passed through, but I respect that I am not am not nearly experienced enough to tackle every job. In keeping my full time job, I'll be able to accept the jobs that I know I can safely handle/profit from and say "I'm too busy" for the jobs that I don't feel comfortable working on yet.


Being in the Sandy area as well, it's hard not to jump in knowing the amount of work that is around. However, my current hope is to start up next spring. In the mean time, I am going to really start paying attention to the small around the house and for the family jobs that I do and see how I can do it better, faster, and safer. I also plan on hanging around in the trees in my backyard as I learn how to carefully climb or at least get off of the ground. I'd like to reach $1,000-$2,000 a month the first year and slowly add to my equipment as I can afford it. Worst case, I'm hoping to cover operating costs. Hopefully, I'll see an increase in the jobs as time goes on. I understand many of the difficulties of this profession, but definitely not all.


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## KenJax Tree (Dec 2, 2012)

opcorn:


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## Wazzu (Dec 2, 2012)

RandyMac said:


> Quit bein' reasonable Gologit, I was waiting for his head to explode.
> 
> It is tough to get a start, it was so in the 1970s, more so now.
> 
> Give Montana a look.



Whoa! Don't send him up here. Ha that's a good one, I think the last timber job left Montana about ten years ago. There are already too many people there who went chasing a dream that didn't exist, went broke and got stuck in a small town. Man I have known a lot of people like that.


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## treemandan (Dec 2, 2012)

StihlPowerr said:


> Nobody ever heard the term LUMBERJACK?



A lumberjack is what a 6 year old boy dreams of becoming til he grows up and puts on his mommy's clothes.


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## treeclimber101 (Dec 2, 2012)

treemandan said:


> A lumberjack is what a 6 year old boy dreams of becoming til he grows up and puts on his mommy's clothes.



Or goes on a public forum with red eyes and a dish rag over his shoulder , complaining about how tired he was from cramming Benny floppy ears in her evening dress.


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## StihlPowerr (Dec 2, 2012)

LelandJF said:


> I don't plan on leaving my current career, but I do plan to try my hand at running a very small time tree service. Since you already had your own business, maybe this route would work for you as well. This is my current plan, but may be modified.
> 
> I have a few of my own saws from a limbing saw, a pole saw, and a couple 14/16" saws, up to my largest being an MS290. No professional fleet, but they all start and cut. I have a pickup and trailers for hauling brush/limbs (one is a strong but small dump trailer). I plan on getting insurance and probably will start an LLC after more research into the business end of things. When money allows, I'll decide on what to purchase first: 6" chipper, sc252/352 sized grinder, telephone company type 30' bucket truck, mason dump truck, etc.
> 
> ...


Sounds great. I am seriously thinking about doing the same thing.


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## Gologit (Dec 2, 2012)

StihlPowerr said:


> Sounds great. I am seriously thinking about doing the same thing.



You'd be better off doing that than you would be logging.


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## sawsalottawood (Dec 2, 2012)

*These guys are great*

Hey, I cleaned up a downed tree after a storm. I am going PRO. I cant wait to get my earthquake viper 42cc saw into some big WOOD! Anyone willing to take on a greenhorn LUMBERJACK lolololol?

I want to be on a crew with StihlPower, leland and lilred!

Best Wishes,

SAWs

PS- stick to ur day job! Stihlpower your 15 years too old. Leland you know just enough to get someone hurt. Lred these guys make you look pro, and they will be undercutting your 13 bones an hour in no time.


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## StihlPowerr (Dec 3, 2012)

sawsalottawood said:


> Hey, I cleaned up a downed tree after a storm. I am going PRO. I cant wait to get my earthquake viper 42cc saw into some big WOOD! Anyone willing to take on a greenhorn LUMBERJACK lolololol?
> 
> I want to be on a crew with StihlPower, leland and lilred!
> 
> ...


Your never to old sawsalottawood remember that. I am still young and strong as an ox. Send me your resume and maybe I will let you on the crew. Lol!!


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## treeclimber101 (Dec 3, 2012)

If someone told me 14 years ago to stay a Ironworker and forget about all this being your own boss nonsense I would of called him a weak fool , now if someone told me that I could be an Ironworker again and have a steady position and retire nicely I would hug him . Think about what your leaving to getting yourself into , me I was too smart to see what was the better of the 2 choices , granted now I feel that I have crossed over the hump its still a up hill battle and time moves fast when your always behind .


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## StihlPowerr (Dec 3, 2012)

treeclimber101 said:


> If someone told me 14 years ago to stay a Ironworker and forget about all this being your own boss nonsense I would of called him a weak fool , now if someone told me that I could be an Ironworker again and have a steady position and retire nicely I would hug him . Think about what your leaving to getting yourself into , me I was too smart to see what was the better of the 2 choices , granted now I feel that I have crossed over the hump its still a up hill battle and time moves fast when your always behind .



Thank you that's good advice.


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## StihlPowerr (Dec 3, 2012)

All you guys well some of you have been very helpful. Thanks


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## LelandJF (Dec 3, 2012)

Eh, I plan on being safe and refusing jobs that I'm not suited for, but I guess we'll see. 

Guided by this mentality and no equipment, making for a lot of work, I can't imagine I'd be taking too many jobs or undercutting any body that does this for a living.


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## arborealbuffoon (Dec 3, 2012)

OK, stihlpowerr. I am gonna give this a shot, even though this will be about the tenth time I have said the same things on here. I'll even try to be nice, so as not to lose your attention immediately.

First off, I can save lots of typing by giving you a little homework assignment. Go back thru this thread and carefully read each of the posts by Gologit. I have never met the man, but I know that he is speaking the truth. His experiences cutting wood have been very different than mine, yet much the same I fear.

Secondly, cutting wood is really hard work. You are 39, and that tells me that by the time you are competent rigging from a rope and saddle your body is going to be wearing out quickly. And, having done it myself (before buncher-fellers) I can guarantee you that logging is a fool's game these days. Now that the woods where I used to cut are mostly mechanized, there are VERY few jobs for full time cutters. And, you could never understand what a bad idea it is until you have been brush f#c$ed all day and burned ten or eleven tanks thru a saw that runs an hour plus on each tank. That's about the time the Forest Service will close the roads and you get to watch your logs sit in the woods (no pay). Oh, and don't forget that the housing market stinks and the mill will also quit taking logs when they can't sell them. Unstable markets, federal regulations, etc.
Hope you have enough money in the bank to live for a month with NO pay.

And, while you CAN make a buck in urban forestry, it's even more work than logging in my experience. And, a whole other set of conundrums, travesties, and never ending dilemmas. I am pushing 50 now, and still climb on a limited basis. Back surgery happened for me at age 25, and it never gets better. Hurts like hell. I live like a freakin' desperado as an arborist and it really makes me feel stupid. But I sure can't live on the 8 dollar an hour wages they're paying these days. I do have other skills to fall back on, as well as a college education. The wood wh#ring kinda gets in your blood and it's hard to give up for some sick twisted reason. So, kinda like smoking tobacco, what I'm trying to say is DON'T START!! 

Apologies to all for the long winded post. While it might sound like I am whining, I am really only trying to speak the Truth. And I wish I had a straight job with retirement and health care.....
It is my fault for the choices I made, and I take full responsibility for that. Good luck to you, sir.


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## Currently (Dec 3, 2012)

In my teens and early twenties, I worked with relatives and a couple contractors cutting wood. I quit cause it is brutal on the body. Watched my uncles turn into cripples in their mid-forties onwards due to back, shoulder and other joint injuries requiring surgery and long recovery periods that were never followed cause they needed money. 

It is all mechanized today and hard to compete against. 

I use those skills today to help people. Do a lot of volunteer work with storm recovery cutting and training people that want to learn how to cut safely. Not a know it all, but willing to listen to those that are wiser.

Went to college and got a viable degree in engineering. Made more money much easier with that degree than logging and working potato farms. Never forgot my roots, have nothing but the utmost respect for those that choose to do this for a living. 

Listen to those that did this for twenty - thirty years. Why are they all saying the same thing? It sure is not because they are afraid of some competition.


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## Gologit (Dec 4, 2012)

Aborealbuffoon and Currently said it right...and it gives you two sides of the coin. "Getting" to cut wood and having to cut wood are two very different things.

I started logging because, where I came from, career choices were limited. I've stuck with it, quitting occasionally to briefly try other things, for about fifty years. It's all I ever wanted to do. I wonder about that sometimes.

I've been very lucky in that I've always been able to make a decent living. That's not through any special or unique ability on my part. My skill sets are very common in this part of the country. A lot of times it was just being in the right place at the right time with a good word from somebody to get my foot in the door. Logging isn't steady work and we were networking with each other to find jobs long before networking was a buzz word. 

I've never filled out an employment application for a logging job...it's always a phone call from somebody I've worked for , or a coffee shop conversation, or running into a friend at the saw shop who mentions that so and so is looking for somebody...that's where the jobs come from.

I do the same thing when I'm looking to hire somebody. I have a book with the names and numbers of good workers that I trust. I won't hire a guy off the street that I don't know. Neither will anybody else . There are always experienced guys out of work to pick from. That in itself should tell you something about this business.

The other guys mentioned that logging is hard on the body. It is. It's not as bad now as it was when I started because of the increased mechanization but there's still enough risk involved to keep our workman's comp rates some of the highest there are.
Most of the guys that started when I did are either on permanent disability...or dead. I've seen many guys get hurt in the woods and I've packed out two falling partners who never knew what hit them.
And again, I've been lucky. I've had two knee replacements, back surgery, a hip repair, two broken legs, two broken arms, a broken collar bone, and two heart attacks. I'm not counting all the scrapes and tears and cuts and bruises that weren't serious enough to go home early for. It's just part of the life.

I don't know much about being an arborist. The only climbing I've done was years ago, topping spar trees and hanging rigging. That's easy stuff compared to the kind of climbing an arborist does. But having watched them work and having listened closely when they talk I truly believe that their work is just as dangerous and just as hard on the body as logging.

Find something else to do. If you want to cut a little wood there are always volunteer trail crews and church groups that do charity cuts. Buy a woodstove and cut up your own firewood. It's good exercise and you can go home when you want to.


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## imagineero (Dec 4, 2012)

Think about it the same as you would any career - consider the career progression opportunities, take home pay working hours, employee benefits, risks, and the lifestyle.... or how much you enjoy the job. Too many guys that startup in these sorts of industries have no concept of the costs of being in business, they just think they're doing well because they get cash in their pocket each day but wonder why they're always broke. The costs involved are significant. If you're running your own show then by the time you take out insurance, tax, equipment costs, depreciation, fuel, vehicle running expenses, saws, maintenance, something for things that break, something for future acquisitions, then take whatever is left over.... remove something for retirement, holidays, sick days, clothing/safety equipment and maybe some income protection insurance for when you get hurt... divide whatever is left by 52 and you'll come up with what you earn in a year. Or what you have to pay to keep working in some cases! 

Add in that there are no guarantees, and long term contracts are rare so you don't know how things will be from month to month. If you live in a cold state you may not get any work in winter. Same story if you get a lot of rain. Same story if the economy isn't going well. Same story if someone in your area starts undercutting you etc...

If you're still interested then I'd reccomend urban tree work over logging. You'll be starting at the bottom which means dragging brush and feeding a chipper, cleaning up and cutting up branches, sharpening/fueling saws, possibly driving the truck, and running ropes. Pay starts at around $10/hour. After a few months you'll probably know what you need to know about grounding. Now it's time to start learning to climb, then rig. You'll need certification/training if you want to be any good. Expect to be competent after a couple years experience. You won't have much to show for it. Then you'll need some $$$ for a truck, chipper, saws, climbing gear, rigging gear, insurance etc. After another 2-3 years you ought to have that paid off if things go well and you'll be ready to make your first dollar. You'll be about 45 by then, and in a position to make about as much as any guy in the tree game, which is less than what you think. Running a business means you have the potential to make a profit or a loss.

I'd say have a go. You've got nothing to lose but your time. Ring every tree company in your area, tell them you're looking for ground work. Say you've got osme experience working for a friend/family member and that you can run a saw. Some hack will give you a start. If you still like it after a few weeks, call around again. You'll know enough to bluff your way into a better job at that point. 

Or if you just need to get your fill of being outdoors doing man stuff don't be afraid of doing some weekend firewooding. Pays for your toys, and you can still making a living mid week. 

Shaun


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## B Harrison (Dec 4, 2012)

treemandan said:


> A lumberjack is what a 6 year old boy dreams of becoming til he grows up and puts on his mommy's clothes.



Thats it, Daminit, that was good coffee too, now I need windex, paper towels, and this keyboard might get replaced.

Thanks, 





really thanks


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## Currently (Dec 4, 2012)

B Harrison said:


> Thats it, Daminit, that was good coffee too, now I need windex, paper towels, and this keyboard might get replaced.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> ...



I won't even pick my nose reading one of Treemandan's posts :msp_scared: let alone trying to eat or drink something. :msp_angry:


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## StihlPowerr (Dec 5, 2012)

You won't believe this but I just got a job offer to work at the local lumber yard. I really want to cut trees down but it all ends up at the lumber yard. What to do?


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## arborealbuffoon (Dec 5, 2012)

StihlPowerr said:


> You won't believe this but I just got a job offer to work at the local lumber yard. I really want to cut trees down but it all ends up at the lumber yard. What to do?



Go with it!


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## StihlPowerr (Dec 6, 2012)

I think I am going to take it. I will let you know.


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## StihlPowerr (Dec 6, 2012)

Del_ said:


> Hey if there is another opening for 'lumberjack' let me know.
> 
> 
> 
> I always wanted to be a lumberjack!


Will do. Lol!


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## StihlPowerr (Dec 6, 2012)

I think my next thread will be about the History of the Lumberjack since some of you guys don't understand what a lumberjack really is.


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## Currently (Dec 6, 2012)

StihlPowerr said:


> I think my next thread will be about the History of the Lumberjack since some of you guys don't understand what a lumberjack really is.



Methinks you need to take a ride to a major logging operation to see how mechanized it is today. They cut three shifts, 24 hours a day. You will walk away quite humbled at the amount of work done without human effort. 

Operators make good money when working. The stars however are the maintenance people.


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## Gologit (Dec 6, 2012)

StihlPowerr said:


> I think my next thread will be about the History of the Lumberjack since some of you guys don't understand what a lumberjack really is.



Oh?


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## StihlPowerr (Dec 6, 2012)

Currently said:


> Methinks you need to take a ride to a major logging operation to see how mechanized it is today. They cut three shifts, 24 hours a day. You will walk away quite humbled at the amount of work done without human effort.
> 
> Operators make good money when working. The stars however are the maintenance people.


I know. Machines are taking over. There killing jobs.


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## expertech (Dec 7, 2012)

Almost 40 and wanting to start in the trees? Man, I hope your ready for some abuse. I was a foreman on a power line crew at 17. Lied about my age. Grew up in this biz and the owner of that company knew my dad and he gave me a crew, he knew how old I was and knew I was trained by the best. That was 28 years ago. You got a long hard road ahead of you if you want to be competent enough to do it all. One thing you can do if you want to run your own biz. Do your homework and find a competent company to refer your clients to if a job is something you cant handle.


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## brody (Dec 7, 2012)

*Your nuts dude*

I ve been in the industry for ten years,and theres not enough money in it for all the bs. Your talking 2-300 dollars a day working for somebody else. Thats nothing for the miles your gonna put on your 40 year old body. Didnt you learn anything from bret farve? Your too old to start in this biz. I started when I was 19 and it was still a nighmare working so hard you can hardly breathe for 15 an hour. After a year I was carved out of wood and the work became much easier. Its amazing what you can get used to. Do you really want to get to that level? Stick with sales,educate yourself in horticulture,and learn what it takes to complete a tree job. Sales are a big part of the tree industry. Work smart,not hard


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## expertech (Dec 7, 2012)

brody said:


> I ve been in the industry for ten years,and theres not enough money in it for all the bs. Your talking 2-300 dollars a day working for somebody else. Thats nothing for the miles your gonna put on your 40 year old body. Didnt you learn anything from bret farve? Your too old to start in this biz. I started when I was 19 and it was still a nighmare working so hard you can hardly breathe for 15 an hour. After a year I was carved out of wood and the work became much easier. Its amazing what you can get used to. Do you really want to get to that level? Stick with sales,educate yourself in horticulture,and learn what it takes to complete a tree job. Sales are a big part of the tree industry. Work smart,not hard



Got to agree with you. Monday I have a huge Cottonwood to rope off a house and I gotta hook it. It will take all my years of experience to do safely but my 45 year old body screams at me every time I leave the ground, especially in the big stuff. The 900 bucks makes it worth it to me but man, to be green, at a later age, and have to learn this stuff, making 15 an hour, OR LESS? No way! No way! No way! Take it from us old pros, climbing is definitely a young mans game. In my mid 20's I dragged 6 foot saws hundreds of feet into the air doing massive conifers in California. We were busting out dead tops for the power company and forest service. I couldn't do it today. Just too old. Hate to admit it but facts are facts.


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## Gologit (Dec 7, 2012)

expertech said:


> .... In my mid 20's I dragged 6 foot saws hundreds of feet into the air doing massive conifers in California. We were busting out dead tops for the power company and forest service. I couldn't do it today. Just too old. Hate to admit it but facts are facts.




6 foot saws? *Hundreds* of feet in the air? Aw, c'mon.


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## treeclimber101 (Dec 7, 2012)

I used to carry 19 ft saws 200ft in the air , soooooo ha!


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## expertech (Dec 7, 2012)

Gologit said:


> 6 foot saws? *Hundreds* of feet in the air? Aw, c'mon.



In some of the big conifers 200 feet is nothing. I did one big Doug Fir and it was 125 feet to the first branch and it was as big as a car. The big tree veterans here know how big things can get. My saw of choice was an 084 and I dragged it up trees that took me at least 6 hours to climb. If you doubt it then there is an area of expertise in this business that you have not been exposed to. And that's O.K. because there isn't a whole lot of work up in the really big stuff. Only so many guys ever get to do it. At one point in my career I specialized and trained climbers to do the big stuff for a company based in Grass Valley, California. The majority of climbers who tried the really big stuff quit. A few had what it took, most didn't. Most people here probably never climbed a tree 15 foot thick and 300 feet tall, but some of us have.


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## RandyMac (Dec 7, 2012)

expertech said:


> In some of the big conifers 200 feet is nothing. I did one big Doug Fir and it was 125 feet to the first branch and it was as big as a car. The big tree veterans here know how big things can get. My saw of choice was an 084 and I dragged it up trees that took me at least 6 hours to climb. If you doubt it then there is an area of expertise in this business that you have not been exposed to. And that's O.K. because there isn't a whole lot of work up in the really big stuff. Only so many guys ever get to do it. At one point in my career I specialized and trained climbers to do the big stuff for a company based in Grass Valley, California. The majority of climbers who tried the really big stuff quit. A few had what it took, most didn't. Most people here probably never climbed a tree 15 foot thick and 300 feet tall, but some of us have.




pictures please.

I think I know someone in the Grass Valley area.


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## imagineero (Dec 7, 2012)

Gologit said:


> 6 foot saws? *Hundreds* of feet in the air? Aw, c'mon.



I gave a girl 12" of wang last night... I've only got 2 inches so we had to do it 6 times


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## expertech (Dec 7, 2012)

RandyMac said:


> pictures please.
> 
> I think I know someone in the Grass Valley area.



Man that was 20 years ago and I've been through hell and back since then. I wish I had pictures of trees I did last week! I don't know if I can name companies and people on here but I was a field supervisor for a big company out of Grass Valley for many years. Can't miss the light blue equipment parked everywhere. And, if you know the owner of that company tell him Jay Hansen says Hey, I'm still kicking and no, I won't go back to work for him!


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## Gologit (Dec 7, 2012)

expertech said:


> In some of the big conifers 200 feet is nothing. I did one big Doug Fir and it was 125 feet to the first branch and it was as big as a car. The big tree veterans here know how big things can get. My saw of choice was an 084 and I dragged it up trees that took me at least 6 hours to climb. If you doubt it then there is an area of expertise in this business that you have not been exposed to. And that's O.K. because there isn't a whole lot of work up in the really big stuff. Only so many guys ever get to do it. At one point in my career I specialized and trained climbers to do the big stuff for a company based in Grass Valley, California. The majority of climbers who tried the really big stuff quit. A few had what it took, most didn't. Most people here probably never climbed a tree 15 foot thick and 300 feet tall, but some of us have.



Yup, I've never climbed anything that big.

Man, 15 foot thick and 300 feet tall...that's a lot of tree. What did you do when you climbed it? Did you use a flip line and spurs? Were you hanging rigging for loggers and did you top it? It must have been a Redwood.


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## Gologit (Dec 7, 2012)

*Moved thread*

If nobody minds I think we'll get this thread moved to the Logging and Forestry section.

There's some members there who'd really be interested in some of the information being presented here.


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## slowp (Dec 7, 2012)

That explains how I missed this. Yup, I know 2 people who live in Grass Valley. They are very nice and knowledgable--she is, anyway. 

Yup, and I have run many marathons in 2 hours, have been a billionaire, and then blew it all on running shoes, just lost 50 pounds in one week, blah blah blah. 

Stay tuned. I'll look for miserable day pictures, but I didn't like getting my camera wet so there aren't many.


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## paccity (Dec 7, 2012)

yup, don't know how i missed this one. thanks for moving it here.:msp_unsure:


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## expertech (Dec 7, 2012)

Gologit said:


> Yup, I've never climbed anything that big.
> 
> Man, 15 foot thick and 300 feet tall...that's a lot of tree. What did you do when you climbed it? Did you use a flip line and spurs? Were you hanging rigging for loggers and did you top it? It must have been a Redwood.



Yes, we hooked them. These days most climbers shoot ropes into the trees and do tension climbs up ropes. We flipped em. Sooo much work. What you do is flip one side of your flip line up and step up and around. You only throw up the one side and always step up and around so you spiral up the tree. And when you come to a branch you use a second flip line and install it by hanging it over the branch then circling the tree to reach the snap and tie in. Then release the lower flip and continue up and around.

If this sounds like a lot of work, it was. The climbs were absolutely brutal. Plus, if you didn't drag your saw up you had to pull it up later, as some did. I preferred to take my saw with me and I usually carried a couple wedges and a hammer. I remember one I did, at about 20 feet up I was already wore out. I did most of these trees for a power company. We were busting out big dead tops back away from the transmission line right of way. Anything that could break out and hit the line had to come down. Another job was to bust out big tops so that the forest service could use helicopters and install eagles nesting platforms. Had to have 5 feet of wood across the top for them and in those trees the 5 foot target was a long way up. And no they were not Redwoods, they were Doug Firs and some huge Ponderosas. Them damn Ponderosas were the worst because the bark furrows were deep and the bark was hard as rock. Very hard climbing. We used 3 or 4 inch gaffs. Those were the days but I'm glad they are over for me.


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## Jacob J. (Dec 7, 2012)

StihlPowerr said:


> Your never to old sawsalottawood remember that. I am still young and strong as an ox. Send me your resume and maybe I will let you on the crew. Lol!!



I was cutting timber for a large outfit here and they had a guy around 38-39 who tried to break in on a high-lead operation pulling and setting chokers. When a person watches it on tv, like anything else, they don't get a real idea of what it's like out there. Gologit mentioned bad weather, snakes, dust, and long commutes- but there's also running up and down a 110% slope all day long with a semi-sociopathic hook tender calling you every name in the book, or a siderod that sends you to the bottom of the unit to grab a block that no one needs just so he can eat your lunch while you're out of sight. Then there's jaggers on the lines tearing your hands up and flying choker bells trying to knock your hard hat off. 

That 38-39 year-old rookie toughed it out for about three weeks and finally said he just couldn't do it. Oh, and he'd just retired from the Marines.


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## slowp (Dec 7, 2012)

Picture 1 The Hooktender. He's packing a heavy load of steel line up the hill. You can't see the horizontal sleet very well, but it was a fine and miserable day. 





View attachment 266209

This is self explanatory. If I could have gone somewhere else that day, I would have and it was the crummy, not my pickup. It was an extremely unpleasant place to be when the boss saw this. The loader was broken down so they had to walk the yarder down to pull out the crummy. 
View attachment 266210
View attachment 266211
View attachment 266212
View attachment 266213


Winter pics.





This is flat, easy ground. Because it is flat, they had to rig up an intermediate support, or jack, and they hadn't done that in many years. The first try, well they had it backwards.






See the footprints? That's where the hooktender had to go, packing haywire. I had to follow. Just 
a skip through the woods.






More to come.


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## redprospector (Dec 7, 2012)

StihlPowerr said:


> I think my next thread will be about the History of the Lumberjack since some of you guys don't understand what a lumberjack really is.



Here's a little video of me & the wife (she's a Lumberjill). Are you sure you understand what a "Lumberjack" really is?





Andy


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## Gologit (Dec 7, 2012)

expertech said:


> Yes, we hooked them. These days most climbers shoot ropes into the trees and do tension climbs up ropes. We flipped em. Sooo much work. What you do is flip one side of your flip line up and step up and around. You only throw up the one side and always step up and around so you spiral up the tree. And when you come to a branch you use a second flip line and install it by hanging it over the branch then circling the tree to reach the snap and tie in. Then release the lower flip and continue up and around.
> 
> If this sounds like a lot of work, it was. The climbs were absolutely brutal. Plus, if you didn't drag your saw up you had to pull it up later, as some did. I preferred to take my saw with me and I usually carried a couple wedges and a hammer. I remember one I did, at about 20 feet up I was already wore out. I did most of these trees for a power company. We were busting out big dead tops back away from the transmission line right of way. Anything that could break out and hit the line had to come down. Another job was to bust out big tops so that the forest service could use helicopters and install eagles nesting platforms. Had to have 5 feet of wood across the top for them and in those trees the 5 foot target was a long way up. And no they were not Redwoods, they were Doug Firs and some huge Ponderosas. Them damn Ponderosas were the worst because the bark furrows were deep and the bark was hard as rock. Very hard climbing. We used 3 or 4 inch gaffs. Those were the days but I'm glad they are over for me.



I guess I should have paid more attention to my surroundings. I topped a few trees in this country many years ago but I can't remember any that were five feet across where I cut them. I've seen quite a few that were 5' dbh but even those are becoming rare. What was the dbh on the ones you topped at 5'? Must have been huge.

I worked mostly private ground but once in awhile we'd do a little for the FS. I was just topping and hanging blocks, nothing fancy. I was lazy, though. I'd limb on the way up with the smallest saw I could find and if I needed anything bigger to top the tree I'd hang a small block with a pass line and have the saw sent up. Much easier on the body.



How long ago did you work in this area? Remember anybody from here?


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## redprospector (Dec 7, 2012)

expertech said:


> In some of the big conifers 200 feet is nothing. I did one big Doug Fir and it was 125 feet to the first branch and it was as big as a car. The big tree veterans here know how big things can get. My saw of choice was an 084 and I dragged it up trees that took me at least 6 hours to climb. If you doubt it then there is an area of expertise in this business that you have not been exposed to. And that's O.K. because there isn't a whole lot of work up in the really big stuff. Only so many guys ever get to do it. At one point in my career I specialized and trained climbers to do the big stuff for a company based in Grass Valley, California. The majority of climbers who tried the really big stuff quit. A few had what it took, most didn't. Most people here probably never climbed a tree 15 foot thick and 300 feet tall, but some of us have.



Wow! That's amazing. When the mill I cut timber for shut down I had to resort to climbing (yard trees). Highest I ever got was about 130'. Only way I know that is my 100' rope wouldn't reach the ground, got out a 150 footer and my son said there was about 20' on the ground. I only climbed for about 7 or 8 years because the knee I had shattered wouldn't hold up to it. 
Wow! 15' DBH and 300' tall. Amazing, those trees just don't grow everywhere.

Andy


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## slowp (Dec 7, 2012)

This is ground that the buncher could not work on. It's a bit steep but is nothing abnormal.





See the guy in the white hat? He's a good guy to work with--until he tells the story of how he lost some of his fingers in a logging accident. Then you want to ask him to please don't say anymore. 
He had to wait, with his fingers stuck in a block, because they had to walk the loader up from another landing in order to rescue him. I think he had to wait 45 minutes with his fingers stuck in the block. He took his eyes off for just a few seconds, to yell at the crew because they were doing something unsafe.






And lastly, the glorious job of moving the yarder on a paved road. (the picture thing is doing funny things). I helped move tires on one move. It was a good workout. Two guys were trying to do it alone, because the crew had not shown up that day for work. So, they set the speed on the yarder, aimed it down the road and while it was moving itself, they were moving tires. Not the best way. 






View attachment 266217
View attachment 266218
View attachment 266219


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## FanOFatherNash (Dec 7, 2012)

Lumberjack use axes and cross cut saws , no power saw


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## expertech (Dec 7, 2012)

Gologit said:


> I guess I should have paid more attention to my surroundings. I topped a few trees in this country many years ago but I can't remember any that were five feet across where I cut them. I've seen quite a few that were 5' dbh but even those are becoming rare. What was the dbh on the ones you topped at 5'? Must have been huge.
> 
> I worked mostly private ground but once in awhile we'd do a little for the FS. I was just topping and hanging blocks, nothing fancy. I was lazy, though. I'd limb on the way up with the smallest saw I could find and if I needed anything bigger to top the tree I'd hang a small block with a pass line and have the saw sent up. Much easier on the body.
> 
> ...




We never measured trees. Didn't matter. They were marked, they were listed, some of them were huge and we climbed them.
The company I worked for had an office there but I mostly worked for them out of town all over Northern California and Nevada. The owner moved me where he needed me. The big trees were not in Grass Valley, they were farther up north past Downieville way up in the mountains. The only climber I really remember from Grass Valley was a guy named Richard Carlson. A little guy with a big heart.


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## madhatte (Dec 7, 2012)

This is turning out to be a very interesting thread. Wish I'd seen it sooner, but I seldom venture out of the F&L and Chainsaw forums. 

My US$0.02: pretty nearly every sale I've seen go down on the ownership where I work has gone to one or another of a handful of local outfits. There are all kinds of reasons for this, but the big one is Economy Of Scale. Nobody can afford to hire, transport, and equip a crew that has to move very far to work, and the old "Timber Tramp" world is shrinking faster than MySpace's market share in 2009. So: we have scrappy local companies that tough it out to make a living. Most of them are small -- ten people or less -- and DON'T hire anybody because there's no turnover and no margin for growth. When I was younger, just about anybody could get a job setting chokers and work their way up the hill. Nowadays, that's not the case. Another thing that's changed as companies have shrunk is that job descriptions have gotten broader as jobs have gotten scarcer. Nobody is JUST a chaser any more -- there's too much else to do now that there's nobody else doing it. The work hasn't changed, but the job has. 

Of course, I'm a forestry guy and can only speak for what I've seen in the field. However, in my world, things have shrunk even faster. No timber sales means there is no need for sale administrators, cruisers, planters, etc -- so we're all barely hanging on. I'm doing pretty well, but I've been fortunate. I took a hiatus of several years when the ass fell out of contract cruising in the late 90's which ended up with me doing a few years in the Navy. When I came back to the woods, it was a different world.


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## RandyMac (Dec 7, 2012)

North of Downieville, didn't think I left any big trees north of 49. I sure as #### would have remembered a 15'dia, 300 foot tree.


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## expertech (Dec 7, 2012)

RandyMac said:


> North of Downieville, didn't think I left any big trees north of 49. I sure as #### would have remembered a 15'dia, 300 foot tree.


Oh they are up there. Between Bassetts station and Eagle lakes was where the big ones were. Of course that was 20 years ago and who knows what has been logged out since then. I seriously doubt you would have hiked in where we had to. Nobody that far out.


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## RandyMac (Dec 7, 2012)

expertech said:


> Oh they are up there. Between Bassetts station and Eagle lakes was where the big ones were. Of course that was 20 years ago and who knows what has been logged out since then. I seriously doubt you would have hiked in where we had to. Nobody that far out.



Enough with the BS, I lived at Yuba Pass in the 80s, I know a great deal about that area, I ranged far and wide, on foot, on snowshoes. Go peddle your crap somewhere else.


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## Gologit (Dec 7, 2012)

RandyMac said:


> North of Downieville, didn't think I left any big trees north of 49. I sure as #### would have remembered a 15'dia, 300 foot tree.



You didn't leave very many...and what you left is darn hard to get to. :hmm3grin2orange:

We took quite a bit of piss fir and some good stands of red fir in the higher country toward Downievile but I can't remember any 15/300 Ponderosa or Doug. If it was going to be anywhere it would be on those south facing slopes down toward the flats from Cal-Ida and on the sunny side of the ridges toward Devil's Post Pile. I've been through there quite a bit but I don't reckon I've seen every inch of it. 

Nothing from Bassett's either...either on up the river or over the hill to Cromberg. There could be trees like that but I can't for the life of me picture very many that would be 5' where they were topped if they were topped high at all.

There's still some nice P-Pine on FS ground above Bullards Bar but nobody has cut anything in there, for any reason, since the mid 70s. No eagle nests.


But hey, maybe I just missed seeing some of that big stuff. And missed hearing about it, too. Guys tend to talk about trees like that. For years afterward. And I know for sure that if I'd ever topped anything that was still 5' across a couple of hundred feet up I would have darn sure found some way to get pictures. Or at least some documentation.


Edit...I just made some phone calls. Talked to a couple of fossils who have been around here longer than me. They're both in their 80s and they've both logged up here all their lives. When I asked them about the 15/300 pine or DF they had a good laugh.


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## redprospector (Dec 7, 2012)

Gologit said:


> But hey, maybe I just missed seeing some of that big stuff. And missed hearing about it, too. Guys tend to talk about trees like that. For years afterward.



Do trees like that continue to grow for years afterward too? 

Andy


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## RandyMac (Dec 7, 2012)

redprospector said:


> Do trees like that continue to grow for years afterward too?
> 
> Andy



Yes.


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## redprospector (Dec 7, 2012)

RandyMac said:


> Yes.



Well, that put's a whole new light on things. 

Andy


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## RandyMac (Dec 7, 2012)

redprospector said:


> Well, that put's a whole new light on things.
> 
> Andy



Fishermen are worse.


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## Gologit (Dec 7, 2012)

redprospector said:


> Do trees like that continue to grow for years afterward too?
> 
> Andy



The trees grow, the ground gets steeper, the brush gets thicker, the side rod gets meaner, the bull buck gets crankier, the owners get cheaper, the truck drivers get dumber, the roads get rougher, the weather gets worse, the forester gets more confused, and the cute new waitress at the coffee shop pays less attention to us with each passing year.


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## Gologit (Dec 7, 2012)

RandyMac said:


> Fishermen are worse.



They get more practice.


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## redprospector (Dec 7, 2012)

RandyMac said:


> Fishermen are worse.



No way!

Andy


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## redprospector (Dec 7, 2012)

Gologit said:


> The trees grow, the ground gets steeper, the brush gets thicker, the side rod gets meaner, the bull buck gets crankier, the owners get cheaper, the truck drivers get dumber, the roads get rougher, the weather gets worse, the forester gets more confused, and the cute new waitress at the coffee shop pays less attention to us with each passing year.



Haha. Well that explaines quite a bit right there.
It seems that many of the mysteries of life are being revealed on this thread.

Andy


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## Gologit (Dec 8, 2012)

You guys have fun and keep an eye on things. I'm outta here. I'll be headed up above Bassett's in the morning and I'll keep a sharp eye out for those gigantic trees. If I see one with the top lopped off and an old eagle's nest in it I'll take some pictures. :msp_rolleyes:


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## madhatte (Dec 8, 2012)

Gologit said:


> the forester gets more confused



Wait;  I'm confused.


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## RandyMac (Dec 8, 2012)

madhatte said:


> Wait; I'm confused.



Ahhh, yeah!


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## slowp (Dec 8, 2012)

I'm really confused. 

Perhaps this is another case of circumference confused with diameter?


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## StihlPowerr (Dec 8, 2012)

redprospector said:


> Here's a little video of me & the wife (she's a Lumberjill). Are you sure you understand what a "Lumberjack" really is?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Great video. It looks like you were slowing her down.Lol


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## StihlPowerr (Dec 8, 2012)

I just started reading this great book.

The Backyard Lumberjack


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## slowp (Dec 8, 2012)

I have that book. It is all about cutting, splitting, and storing firewood and is an entertaining read with nice pictures. 

Douglas Dent's book, _Professional Timber Falling--A Procedural Approach_ relates more to the real world of PNW production falling. The pictures aren't as good, it isn't written humorously, and gets into the technical aspects of different West Coast timber falling methods.


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## forestryworks (Dec 8, 2012)

I know a guy who knows a guy that is 74 and on his 50th year as a timber faller. That's a career and a hell of a milestone. 

A lumberjack is just a figment of Northwoods lore and fireside imaginations, gone when the White Pine woods were cut-over and left behind in a cut-and-run aftermath.


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## Rounder (Dec 8, 2012)

Gologit said:


> The trees grow, the ground gets steeper, the brush gets thicker, the side rod gets meaner, the bull buck gets crankier, the owners get cheaper, the truck drivers get dumber, the roads get rougher, the weather gets worse, the forester gets more confused, and the cute new waitress at the coffee shop pays less attention to us with each passing year.



Except for the waitress part, you pretty well summed up my past week Bob....


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## expertech (Dec 8, 2012)

Gologit said:


> You guys have fun and keep an eye on things. I'm outta here. I'll be headed up above Bassett's in the morning and I'll keep a sharp eye out for those gigantic trees. If I see one with the top lopped off and an old eagle's nest in it I'll take some pictures. :msp_rolleyes:


 Take your Helicopter. The tallest tree in California was discovered in 2006. Nobody knows whats out there. Nobody. Least not the trolls in here. Some guy who thinks he knows every inch of a thousand square miles... What a joke.


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## redprospector (Dec 8, 2012)

StihlPowerr said:


> Great video. It looks like you were slowing her down.Lol



I get that a lot. 

Andy


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## treeclimber101 (Dec 8, 2012)

expertech said:


> Take your Helicopter. The tallest tree in California was discovered in 2006. Nobody knows whats out there. Nobody. Least not the trolls in here. Some guy who thinks he knows every inch of a thousand square miles... What a joke.



You will learn quickly that the answers to all the worlds questions are hidden somewhere in these threads ! :hmm3grin2orange:


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## redprospector (Dec 8, 2012)

expertech said:


> Take your Helicopter. The tallest tree in California was discovered in 2006. Nobody knows whats out there. Nobody. Least not the trolls in here. Some guy who thinks he knows every inch of a thousand square miles... What a joke.



What, you thought you could come in here slingin' crap and no one would notice the smell?
I don't know about California, but around here 20 years ago the environmentalist were raising holy hell about cutting anything. The minimum dbh on a sale went from 12" to 9" and logging became more like thinning. 
Here in New Mexico we don't have the big trees they have in the PNW, but in the mid 80's I cut some Doug Firs that were a little over 6' dbh. I could probably take you to the stumps still today. You say you've topped trees that are 15' dbh and 300' tall, and can't say where they are? 
Maybe after you have proven some of your experience we'll start believing some of those tall tail's. But probably not all 300' of em.

Andy


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## RandyMac (Dec 8, 2012)

expertech said:


> Take your Helicopter. The tallest tree in California was discovered in 2006. Nobody knows whats out there. Nobody. Least not the trolls in here. Some guy who thinks he knows every inch of a thousand square miles... What a joke.



You have a point, not everything is known and never will be.
However, there are only two places in California that have trees as large as you say they are and that part of the Sierras is not one of them.
I haven't seen every inch of that area, but believe me, if there were trees that big, I would have found them. I did travel extensively in the area, I hunted, fished, logged and just plain wandered through a large swath. 
So, kindly give us a more specific area in which to look. I have contacts in Sierraville, Portola and Loyalton, who would be very interested in seeing these trees.
I don't think your stories hold water.


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## northmanlogging (Dec 8, 2012)

I don't know whats more entertaining, the B.S. or the smack down that fallows...

As far as the book, Back Yard Lumber Jack is concerned, its got some good info on firewood handling, and some "safe" ways to fall trees, but it sure as Hel taint for production logging, in fact it says several time in their to HIRE A LOGGER when and if you plan on logging... otherwise mostly good stuff, for firewood, I'm hoping to get a copy of Mr. Dents book for yule...


Lastly, if you really want to be a logger, just watch the obituary section in your local paper, sooner or later someone is going to die from a logging accident, and who knows maybe you could get their job...


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## Gologit (Dec 8, 2012)

expertech said:


> Take your Helicopter. The tallest tree in California was discovered in 2006. Nobody knows whats out there. Nobody. Least not the trolls in here. Some guy who thinks he knows every inch of a thousand square miles... What a joke.



As a matter of fact, I spent the morning in a helicopter. We were just kind of looking at timber and roads and boundaries and such. We were in the area where you claimed to have seen 15' Pine and Doug that were 300 feet tall and topped them where they were 5' across. That was _across_, right? As in _diameter_?

We looked everywhere we went and we covered a lot of ground, both in the bird and on foot. We never saw any trees like you mentioned. Not a one. Not even close. I'll bet those darn loggers got them

Funny thing is, we didn't see any big stumps, either. Maybe the loggers hauled those to town, too. Darn loggers.

We'll keep looking, though. I know a few people up there...loggers mostly with a few foresters and FS people who still actually go to the woods. Although not a single one of them has ever in their lives seen a tree like you describe in that area, they're intrigued with the idea.


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## redprospector (Dec 8, 2012)

It ain't 15' dbh, but there is photographic evidence that I was around a nice tree once. 







Andy


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## rwoods (Dec 8, 2012)

I waded through this thread and while it is derailed, I must say, to my logger and forestry friends, please recall the days of your youth when you believed most of what you were told, when small things seemed big, when imagined things were bigger and real, a time when Pecos Bill, Paul Bunyan and Babe the Blue Ox roamed the West. Go with me as I climbed the forbidden 30’ light pole while my parents were in town. Feel the splinters as I clung to it for dear life when it swayed in the wind. Watch as the pole suddenly grew in height to no less than an inch from being a quarter of a mile. Now continue with me as I got older and skeptical. Witness my skepticism taking root as I braved nests of cotton mouths, 7 foot rattlers and wild cats while venturing forth from the safety of the school bus to see and touch the world biggest White Bay tree only to be disappointed that it wasn’t as big as I wanted it to be. Make note of the growth of my skepticism years later at the end of the mountain trail as I saw and touched what I was told to be the world’s largest yellow poplar and then read the government sign that stated it may be only the second largest yellow poplar in that its larger “twin” was felled by loggers in times now past. And alas it too was shorter than I had imagined. Now return with me to the present as I say to the teller of tall tales, that I too have a tall tale of unimaginable proportions – I fueled my wife’s car tonight at the local Exxon and paid $2.999 per gallon. Yes, I paid less than three bucks for a government certified US gallon of unleaded may contain ethanol gasoline. The unbranded gas across the street was $2.989 per gallon. Believe it or not, it is true. And if you are skeptical, I have a receipt. Where may I ask is your receipt? How about the name of that big company for which you worked? Or tell us the name of the county with the eagle nests? Surely you can share something that can be verified. Or must AS continue to fuel my skepticism? A sad prospect as I once firmly believed that Pecos Bill could whip Paul Bunyan and hog tie Babe, but after too much time on AS, I now have my doubts. :msp_sad: Ron 

PS to Gologit In case you missed it, someone else carries a hammer. :msp_wink: Ron


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## RandyMac (Dec 9, 2012)

I did see some good examples on my travels, there is a big Red Fir at Hawley Lake, probably 60"+ and tall. There is a DF below Deadman Lake that is of note because it is near the edge of it's range, 60"+, but short with a load of taper. Ponderosas get big, in the little valleys around Sierra Valley are some dandys, cut a few of those. Some were 6-7 feet in dia, but not all that tall. For both big and tall, the winners are the Sugar Pines, just thinking about them makes me want to make a road trip. There are some on the slopes of Haskell Peak that are prime specimens.
Anyways, other than an odd Cedar or two, trees much over 60" are sparse. I send a message to a guy in Blairsden, if there is any exceptional timber, Rick will know, he was a timber buyer for the mill at Calpine.


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## OlympicYJ (Dec 9, 2012)

RandyMac said:


> Fishermen are worse.



My dad used to think elk hunters are bad.... now he considers fisherman way worse. 

He's run into some mighty funny crap out elk huntin... I'm glad I consider myself more an elk hunter than a fisherman :msp_biggrin:


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## imagineero (Dec 9, 2012)

I like to take people at their word, but some guys just take it a little too far. Hundreds of feet up with 6' bar? Unless you featured in a prominent poster sold by Gerald Beranek you're going to need proof on that one. Hundreds meaning at least 200, that must beat record holders to need a 6' bar. And when you start talking about it like it was every day before morning tea instead of once ever in your whole life, to guys who do take out some of the biggest trees, then lookout. The guy was given a pretty gentle poking. He could have backed down a little and said 'well, there was that one tree, but mostly we were in smaller stuff' or whatever. If you decide to not back down and maintain such an extravagant claim to real loggers you better be prepared to back it.

The stuff I do is small compared to the stuff you guys do. I'm an urban tree worker. Most of the stuff I see on a daily basis is under 3'. Some of it well under. Once in a while I stumble upon something big. Big to me is 7' or 8' dbh and up to 200' tall. We have nothing like that in the city, only up in the mountains. I take pics when I get one like that. Screw you guys, i take pics for myself. 

Yeah I know all the big ones are gone, but even back in the day 15'dbh with 6' at 200' was exceptional, not the norm. They took pics of trees like that around the time the camera was invented, because they were rare even back then!


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## RandyMac (Dec 9, 2012)

OlympicYJ said:


> My dad thought we elk hunters are bad.... now he considers fisherman way worse.



Jeeze where is that photo of that Lingcod I caught on a flyrod?


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## OlympicYJ (Dec 9, 2012)

RandyMac said:


> Jeeze where is that photo of that Lingcod I caught on a flyrod?



Ahahahaha!:biggrinbounce2: How goes your night, er.. morning, Randy? lol


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## RandyMac (Dec 9, 2012)

OlympicYJ said:


> Ahahahaha!:biggrinbounce2: How goes your night, er.. morning, Randy? lol



Both are good thank you. How goes it for you?

I think that photo is in the same album where the photos of the canoe trip with Raquel Welch are.


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## OlympicYJ (Dec 9, 2012)

RandyMac said:


> Both are good thank you. How goes it for you?
> 
> I think that photo is in the same album where the photos of the canoe trip with Raquel Welch are.



So far sleepless lol the day was good. Went to the hills to play in the snow with my jeep. Gotta see some cuts and a whole lotta wood decked up ready to be hauled. Guess I shoulda took some pics for the equipment junkies. I'm not very patient with the camera. I just kinda charge right along and don't think to stop lol Oh seen some deer too lol


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## Cedarkerf (Dec 9, 2012)

With all the fun thought Id post a pic of a big Sitka we took a couple weeks back


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## KiwiBro (Dec 9, 2012)

OK, so it's only a thinning operation, but seeing how I won't be around in another 10,000 years when this stand is due for harvest, here's a shot of the stalks we've been knocking over since daybreak this morning (I'm on my morning smoko now):
View attachment 266768


There's so many like this, one of the greenhorns suggested breaking out the beaver blade on the brush cutters. We had to remind him we are getting paid by the hour, not Ha. Sheesh, some people just don't think.


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## OlympicYJ (Dec 9, 2012)

KiwiBro said:


> OK, so it's only a thinning operation, but seeing how I won't be around in another 10,000 years when this stand is due for harvest, here's a shot of the stalks we've been knocking over since daybreak this morning (I'm on my morning smoko now):
> View attachment 266768
> 
> 
> There's so many like this, one of the greenhorns suggested breaking out the beaver blade on the brush cutters. We had to remind him we are getting paid by the hour, not Ha. Sheesh, some people just don't think.



Now wha kind of tree was that big one? My forester side is coming out. Get to do dendrology over again... yay for me. I hear im gonna be learning some more exotic species though other than the ones found here in the NW.


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## KiwiBro (Dec 9, 2012)

OlympicYJ said:


> Now wha kind of tree was that big one? My forester side is coming out. Get to do dendrology over again... yay for me. I hear im gonna be learning some more exotic species though other than the ones found here in the NW.


Some call 'em Kauri (Agathis australis) but most of us down here in the Pacific South East call them shrubs. Occasionally, two of us dangle from choppers hanging onto a powerhead each on the end of a double ended 12' bar so we can cut the tops out for roosting platforms for our native birds called Kiwis.


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## Gologit (Dec 9, 2012)

KiwiBro said:


> Some call 'em Kauri (Agathis australis) but most of us down here in the Pacific South East call them shrubs. Occasionally, two of us dangle from choppers hanging onto a powerhead each on the end of a double ended 12' bar so we can cut the tops out for roosting platforms for our native birds called Kiwis.



Paging expertech...job opportunity.


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## lfnh (Dec 9, 2012)

KiwiBro said:


> Some call 'em Kauri (Agathis australis) but most of us down here in the Pacific South East call them shrubs. Occasionally, two of us dangle from choppers hanging onto a powerhead each on the end of a double ended 12' bar so we can cut the tops out for roosting platforms for our native birds called Kiwis.



are the Kiwis related to the Dodo's ?


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## redprospector (Dec 9, 2012)

OlympicYJ said:


> My dad used to think elk hunters are bad.... now he considers fisherman way worse.
> 
> He's run into some mighty funny crap out elk huntin... I'm glad I consider myself more an elk hunter than a fisherman :msp_biggrin:



Yeah, I used to fish a lot. Not anymore.......But I can't talk about it. 

I still elk hunt, but I have to watch myself. 

Andy


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## redprospector (Dec 9, 2012)

Gologit said:


> Paging expertech...job opportunity.



Hmm. I wonder what happened to the terror of the TALL timber? 

Andy


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## OlympicYJ (Dec 9, 2012)

KiwiBro said:


> Some call 'em Kauri (Agathis australis) but most of us down here in the Pacific South East call them shrubs. Occasionally, two of us dangle from choppers hanging onto a powerhead each on the end of a double ended 12' bar so we can cut the tops out for roosting platforms for our native birds called Kiwis.



Hahaha a shrub at 50m tall? I googled it once I got the name. So other than a nice place for kiwi to roost, which I thought they were flightless, what are these Kauri good for? lol


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## KiwiBro (Dec 9, 2012)

lfnh said:


> are the Kiwis related to the Dodo's ?


Distant cousin twice removed.


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## RandyMac (Dec 9, 2012)

redprospector said:


> Hmm. I wonder what happened to the terror of the TALL timber?
> 
> Andy



Changing username.


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## KiwiBro (Dec 9, 2012)

OlympicYJ said:


> Hahaha a shrub at 50m tall?


 150' isn't tall. Heck, even my dog can spin yarns taller than that


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## OlympicYJ (Dec 9, 2012)

KiwiBro said:


> 150' isn't tall. Heck, even my dog can spin yarns taller than that



Well it can't be measured as a tree unless it is over 4.5 or 5 feet if I remember correctly... :msp_scared:

I'd say at 150 feet it counts as a tree... the question is if it's worth anything... as a silviculturalist once told me "If it doesn't have a value I don't care about it." lol


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## KiwiBro (Dec 10, 2012)

OlympicYJ said:


> the question is if it's worth anything


Stunningly beautiful wood. Photos don't do it justice as they seldom pick up the warmth and effervescence or whitebait figure it can have. Sometimes a bit soft though. They built houses, boats and furniture from it back in the day. Can be thousands of years old. Last year, I was cutting logs that were growing when dinosaurs roamed the Earth. Story goes a tsunami or massively high winds flattened large forests of these ancient trees tens of thousands of years ago and they lay in peat and swamps, preserved (without actually petrifying to any great extent - it still has it's grain structure intact and is often just like cutting a green log and sometimes it has a tannin stain to it that gives it a dark and brooding mood) and now we dig 'em out and sell em' off to mainly the Chinese as fast as we can get them out of the ground (which is not all that fast if they are monsters - as in 90 cubic metres of lumber from just one log kind of monstrous, although most are not that big). 

The only way many NZers can afford furniture or flooring made from Kauri these days is if they are pulling down an old house that was built with it, or are lucky enough to stumble over it in a friends paddock one day and are allowed to dig it out. It's not being felled much as it's protected most places and the really good trees are as scarce as hens teeth. My drying racks are slowly accumulating some. Not enough but as one of my most favourite timbers to work with, i probably couldn't ever get enough of it. Some are picking a long dry summer here in the North of the North Island, so that's the time to get up in a small plane and fly over the usual suspects looking for strips of dead grass - a log buried just below the surface will stop the water getting to the grass above it and/or the roots of the grass getting to sustainable depths so the grass dries off. It's quite a defined demarcation. But every canny bugger is doing the same and it's a race that's hard to win.


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## OlympicYJ (Dec 10, 2012)

KiwiBro said:


> Stunningly beautiful wood. Photos don't do it justice as they seldom pick up the warmth and effervescence or whitebait figure it can have. Sometimes a bit soft though. They built houses, boats and furniture from it back in the day. Can be thousands of years old. Last year, I was cutting logs that were growing when dinosaurs roamed the Earth. Story goes a tsunami or massively high winds flattened large forests of these ancient trees tens of thousands of years ago and they lay in peat and swamps, preserved (without actually petrifying to any great extent - it still has it's grain structure intact and is often just like cutting a green log and sometimes it has a tannin stain to it that gives it a dark and brooding mood) and now we dig 'em out and sell em' off to mainly the Chinese as fast as we can get them out of the ground (which is not all that fast if they are monsters - as in 90 cubic metres of lumber from just one log kind of monstrous, although most are not that big).
> 
> The only way many NZers can afford furniture or flooring made from Kauri these days is if they are pulling down an old house that was built with it, or are lucky enough to stumble over it in a friends paddock one day and are allowed to dig it out. It's not being felled much as it's protected most places and the really good trees are as scarce as hens teeth. My drying racks are slowly accumulating some. Not enough but as one of my most favourite timbers to work with, i probably couldn't ever get enough of it. Some are picking a long dry summer here in the North of the North Island, so that's the time to get up in a small plane and fly over the usual suspects looking for strips of dead grass - a log buried just below the surface will stop the water getting to the grass above it and/or the roots of the grass getting to sustainable depths so the grass dries off. It's quite a defined demarcation. But every canny bugger is doing the same and it's a race that's hard to win.



Ah now I know what your talking about! I saw a video of one being dug up. I remember now that it was Kauri. You are right, very stunning wood! My memory comes and goes. I'm a bit worried since I'm just a yungun haha. I bet the greenies would drop a brick if a standing one were cut, which I doubt any are... Are they still plentiful? I mean new regen coming up? I would love to go to NZ to work. Good lookin country, plus the hunting is pretty darn good:msp_drool: I know a guy from there. Forget where his family farm is. Maybe someday a vacation will be in order.


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## OlympicYJ (Dec 10, 2012)

redprospector said:


> Yeah, I used to fish a lot. Not anymore.......But I can't talk about it.
> 
> I still elk hunt, but I have to watch myself.
> 
> Andy



Darn those lyin elk hunters anyways! Can't trust em one bit! :wink2:

I'm not so good at the fishing game. It's quite pathetic since I grew up on one of the best steelie streams in WA but hunting is by far my fave. I've been doin more and more elk huntin since High School. Been pickin up trackin from my dad. Nothin compares to bustin brush on elk tracks! Kinda got in my blood early on when the old man took me out as a kid on some tracks. It's way more of a mental challenge for me than fishin... plus I can't sit still lol

You got some nice bulls down your way


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## KiwiBro (Dec 10, 2012)

OlympicYJ said:


> Ah now I know what your talking about! I saw a video of one being dug up. I remember now that it was Kauri. You are right, very stunning wood! My memory comes and goes. I'm a bit worried since I'm just a yungun haha. I bet the greenies would drop a brick if a standing one were cut, which I doubt any are... Are they still plentiful? I mean new regen coming up? I would love to go to NZ to work. Good lookin country, plus the hunting is pretty darn good:msp_drool: I know a guy from there. Forget where his family farm is. Maybe someday a vacation will be in order.


Don't believe a word those tourist brochures and videos say. The hunting is useless down here, the fishing even worse. 


Yeah the local mafia known as the department of conservation would probably order a hit on anyone caught dropping a decent Kauri. But between you, me, and the rest of the world, I know someone who's got a few solar powered cheap GPS units way up in some of the trees that are easy to get at from the road and look to be exposed to storm conditions enough that in a good blow when the ground is saturated, they may come down over the road without chainsaw assistance. Of course, you can bet your backside our small, exclusive and dedicated team of midnight volunteers will mobilise and brave storm conditions to clear the road. It's the least we can do for our fellow citizens.


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## OlympicYJ (Dec 10, 2012)

Wait wait you mean you guys aren't dripping with masher red stag all over the place!? :msp_rolleyes: I was told the good hunting was on the North Island or something like that. I know how the misconceptions go about huntin.... or fishing for that matter lol

Haha oh the same thing happens here!!! Some trees just need to be protected from wanton waste :wink2:


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## Zale (Dec 10, 2012)

Question: how did eagles build their nests before expertech was born?


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## northmanlogging (Dec 10, 2012)

Telephone poles... or they where homeless...


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## StihlKiwi (Dec 11, 2012)

OlympicYJ said:


> Wait wait you mean you guys aren't dripping with masher red stag all over the place!? :msp_rolleyes: I was told the good hunting was on the North Island or something like that. I know how the misconceptions go about huntin.... or fishing for that matter lol
> 
> Haha oh the same thing happens here!!! Some trees just need to be protected from wanton waste :wink2:



Yea hunting here has gone to the dogs mate. Sometimes you gotta drive more than a whole hour and walk the same just to get a pig or deer, and with all this hunting 365 days a year with no licence other than a firearms licence it gets confusing as to when to go out 

The fishing's all right too I guess. Just moved to the (self-proclaimed) fly-fishing capital of the world, so I'll have to get into that a bit more


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## OlympicYJ (Dec 11, 2012)

StihlKiwi said:


> Yea hunting here has gone to the dogs mate. Sometimes you gotta drive more than a whole hour and walk the same just to get a pig or deer, and with all this hunting 365 days a year with no licence other than a firearms licence it gets confusing as to when to go out
> 
> The fishing's all right too I guess. Just moved to the (self-proclaimed) fly-fishing capital of the world, so I'll have to get into that a bit more



Still better than only 4 weeks and hours and hours of walkin and drivin....


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## KiwiBro (Dec 11, 2012)

StihlKiwi said:


> Yea hunting here has gone to the dogs mate. Sometimes you gotta drive more than a whole hour and walk the same just to get a pig or deer, and with all this hunting 365 days a year with no licence other than a firearms licence it gets confusing as to when to go out
> 
> The fishing's all right too I guess. Just moved to the (self-proclaimed) fly-fishing capital of the world, so I'll have to get into that a bit more



Mods--He's talking off topic. Can you drop his post please?
Hey. I had them almost, maybe, hopefully believing the fishing and hunting wasn't good and you are doing me no favours. This aint the thread for the truth. this is the spinning thread. You are way off topic with that there truth you writeth.


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## Sport Faller (Dec 11, 2012)

Lumberjacks..... jeeez, I do Lumberjack sports and I don't even like to use that word. Saying lumberjack to a logger is like calling a rancher a farmer or calling a welder an Iron Worker (F the unions)


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## Gologit (Dec 11, 2012)

Every time I hear the term "Lumberjack" I think of this: The Dead Parrot sketch is a good lead-in to the Lumberjack Song.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnciwwsvNcc


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## StihlKiwi (Dec 11, 2012)

Sport Faller said:


> Saying lumberjack to a logger is like calling a rancher a farmer



Whats the difference between a rancher and a farmer? I come from a land of poor hunting and no fish, and we don't have 'ranchers' here. Plenty of farmers, but no ranchers


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## Sport Faller (Dec 11, 2012)

StihlKiwi said:


> Whats the difference between a rancher and a farmer? I come from a land of poor hunting and no fish, and we don't have 'ranchers' here. Plenty of farmers, but no ranchers



Ranchers raise cattle or horses, farmers raise everything else


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## treeclimber101 (Dec 11, 2012)

Sport Faller said:


> Lumberjacks..... jeeez, I do Lumberjack sports and I don't even like to use that word. Saying lumberjack to a logger is like calling a rancher a farmer or calling a welder an Iron Worker (F the unions)



And I am sure they say F the scabs as well .


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## StihlPowerr (Jan 11, 2013)

I finally got the job at the Lumber yard I start Monday.


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## floyd (Jan 11, 2013)

Good deal. Trust me your body will love you in 10yr.


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## Gologit (Jan 11, 2013)

StihlPowerr said:


> I finally got the job at the Lumber yard I start Monday.



 You did the right thing. Thanks for letting us know and good luck to you.


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## paccity (Jan 11, 2013)

good on ya. work hard and smart. see how it works around here . question + drift= resolution.


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## StihlPowerr (Jan 11, 2013)

Thanks everybody


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## redheadwoodshed (Jan 12, 2013)

treemandan said:


> I think you hit the nail on the head there sparky! Still want in?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That almost made me want to be a lumberjack! My advise is go for it.Age and experience shouldn't deter you.I was in my 40s before I became an international sex symbol(I won't mention which nations ) and I had very little experience in that field. And RandyMac, iPhones are great.I've had mine a week almost,and I like it. I also landed a part time job on a logging crew on my days off the rig. I didn't realize nobody uses chainsaws anymore.


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## slowp (Jan 12, 2013)

Gee, I did not know that chainsaws aren't used for logging anymore. I'd best go out and educate our local people. Go amongst the masses. They don't know that. :msp_rolleyes:


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## redheadwoodshed (Jan 12, 2013)

Here. In pine plantations. Mostly what's left to log here.


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## PLMCRZY (Jan 15, 2013)

If the man wants to log tell him how. Ya hes old but some people need to learn the hard way.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## Naked Arborist (Jan 16, 2013)

StihlPowerr said:


> I think my next thread will be about the History of the Lumberjack since some of you guys don't understand what a lumberjack really is.



We have no idea please, learn us some...

ROFL


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## Naked Arborist (Jan 17, 2013)

RandyMac said:


> Jeeze where is that photo of that Lingcod I caught on a flyrod?



Now THAT is an exceptional statement!

WOW now he starts to show some sense. GL. The lumberyard should be dangerous enough for a newbie there.

The tall tales about 15' trees was worth the wait to find the end here. I've always wanted to cut a tree wider than my 36" saw bar. It has happened only twice and I consider myself lucky with that. Getting the 660 upstairs with a 28" on it is more than I want to do and hope not to repeat that climb. The 361 with a 20 is more than enough for me!


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