# Which Tree if not Sycamore?



## Sheridan (Oct 4, 2005)

I have a new house (on two acres) for which I need to plant two shade trees.

I already have three rows of windbreaks on the West [two of White Spruce and one of mixed hardwoods (Sugar Maple, Elm, Honey Locust, Carolina Ash, and Burr Oak)]. 

These two trees will go in the front and back. The house is a white cottage style house, and I wanted to put a White Spire Birch clump in front and an American Sycamore/London Plane tree in back. The tree in front is more for decoration since it faces North. The tree in back needs to provide serious shade as that side of the house faces South and I have big windows.

I was thinking of the sycamore because it grows quickly but is still relatively long-lived; has a large, open crown with large limbs; has has a neat, white bark pattern.

But after reading the opinions on this forum about the smell, trashy habit, exposed roots, and dust of this tree, I am rethinking my choice.

I also have an asthma sufferer in the family. Is the dust problem evident only when the tree is being cut, or all the time; same question about the smell? 

I have lots of room for the tree to spread out, but I don't want to put it too far from the house or I'll be long dead before I have any benefit from it.

Any additional insight into this tree or ideas for another choice will be appreciated.


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## Trignog (Oct 4, 2005)

Yes, the stink and dust is while cutting. Coming from new Endland I know there are many sycamore/planes relativly close to houses that have been there for literally hundreds of years, houses and trees. More than 50 feet away from the house and you'll be O.K. In my opinion a good choice for a great stately tree.


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## begleytree (Oct 4, 2005)

I'm gonna disagree w/ Trig
I can smell the things 100' away, the house windows who are unfortunate enough to have a sycamore tree close are always covered with the dust.
Not to mention the balls that, when run over with a mower, create a fiberous dust that gets sucked into anything ingesting air, fans, a/c units, heaters,car radiators, and YOU.
Raking the leaves is akin to raking paper bags around the lawn, bark peelings are always everywhere, always dropping dead limbs, and they grow so open, big heavy limbs over houses, I don't think they'd stop much wind, especially when they get bigger.

imo, Sycamore is a horrible choice around a house.

A little used but great common forest tree, small litter, great shade if you want something big, I've always liked the hackberry. 
-Ralph


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## Elmore (Oct 4, 2005)

I agree with Ralph...Sycamore is an awful tree for the typical yard. It is best left in the wild or perhaps on a large estate, far from buildings and sites of much activity. If you are in zone 4 or better I would recommend Ulmus parvifolia- Chinese Lacebark Elm. It is a very good tree that grows relatively rapid. 
http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/consumer/factsheets/trees-new/ulmus_parvifolia.html


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## treeman45246 (Oct 5, 2005)

Am I the only one who noticed Elmore recommend something *other* than a ginkgo? The Lacebark elm is a great choice, and I'd have to agree about the sycamore... One of my favorite trees to look at in someone else's backyard. The cleanup is almost a full-time job.
Burr Oak and Blackgum are two of my favorites, but you lose that fast growth rate... sometimes good things have to come to those who wait.


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## Sheridan (Oct 5, 2005)

Thanks for the replies so far guys. 

I guess there are a few more details that may help with this selection.

Yes, Elmore, I am in zone 4, bordering on zone 5. 

This site is an old alfalfa field that has been farmed for 50-75 years. 

The soil is not very fertile- if I remember right, they called it glacial loess, but it looks like fine sand changing over to sandy clay to me. The good topsoil is only 1 to 3 inches deep (toward the lower depth where this tree would be). 

Other than the saplings/seedlings I planted about 2 years ago (that are now from 4 to 12 feet tall, the closest to the site of this tree are about 40 feet away), there are no other trees within hundreds of yards, and the septic area is a good 100 feet away.

The site slopes gently from North to South, and there is very good Southern, Western, and Eastern exposure. The slope continues for about 200 yards further south to a small creek. So, while sunny, there may be some cool air pooling in this area.

I'm looking for a stately shade tree that is fast growing but has a good longevity, and a nice rounded form. 

Elmore, I'll certainly check into the Chinese Lacebark Elm.

Any other ideas?


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## Elmore (Oct 5, 2005)

Sheridan said:


> ...Elmore...Any other ideas?


Yes...Ginkgo biloba and Bald Cypress.


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## Husky288XP (Oct 5, 2005)

Tree of Heaven


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## treeman45246 (Oct 5, 2005)

Dawn Redwood definitely worth a look, as is Bald Cypress... you don't get much faster growth. Tulip poplar is also a fast grower, but the wood is on the brittle side. Is the ginkgo a fast grower? I know it is tough, pest-free and underused, but I've never considered it as being very fast... Enlighten me if I'm mistaken on this.


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## Elmore (Oct 5, 2005)

treeman45246 said:


> Dawn Redwood definitely worth a look, as is Bald Cypress... you don't get much faster growth. Tulip poplar is also a fast grower, but the wood is on the brittle side. Is the ginkgo a fast grower? I know it is tough, pest-free and underused, but I've never considered it as being very fast... Enlighten me if I'm mistaken on this.


 Ginkgo is slow to moderate. Most consider it slow but it is probably the best tree for a long and trouble free life. It is also one of the most beautiful of trees, in my opinion. I thought of Dawn Redwood, two living fossils in one yard but considering the location was Wisconsin, I didn't think that it would be hardy enough (zone 5 probably the limit). A good combination of superior species would include Ginkgo and Bald Cypress. Two of the best.


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## rb_in_va (Oct 6, 2005)

My folks had a silver maple (I think that was it) in the front yard. It was a fast grower, nice shade, and nice bark color. Wish I had a pic of it.


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## Tree Wizard (Oct 9, 2005)

Bald cypress and dawn redwood will do well in Zone 5. Bald cypress will do well in Zone 4 and dawn redwood will do ok. The City of Milwaukee plants bald cypress as street trees. In areas where the homeowners water and fertilize them they exhibit very fast growth. Having planted both BCs & DRs for clients, along with ginkgos, I would say the bald cypress will grow almost twice as fast as a ginkgo and the dawn redwood is also a faster grower. 

Most sycamores in Wisconsin will have sycamore anthracnose. Of the 40 or so sycamores on our clients properties, I can only think of one that we do not periodically treat for anthracnose.

A tree I would consider is the Redmond Linden. Another would be the Autumn Blaze Maple (cross between silver and red maples), although this tree is starting to get extemely overplanted in SE WI.


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## R Schra (Oct 9, 2005)

Tree Wizard said:


> Most sycamores in Wisconsin will have sycamore anthracnose. Of the 40 or so sycamores on our clients properties, I can only think of one that we do not periodically treat for anthracnose.



??? treat with what against that fungus? We see it a lot here to in spring/early summer but only on moisty/damp hot periods. After midsummer when temps rise more and humidity drop the planes grow over it. So is treatment effective and/or neccesary?


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## Tree Wizard (Oct 9, 2005)

The American sycamore is much more susceptible to anthracnose than the London plane. The twig ends are killed back and witches brooms are formed. Then, many times, the witches brooms are killed back and eventually you have a very unsightly tree. Cankers can also form in larger branches, eventually killing them. We treat them with macro-infusions of Arbotect. Highly susceptible trees you are treating every three years or so, others may go six to eight years between treatments. Once new witches brooms start forming, it is time to treat again. Sanitation pruning also helps.


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## R Schra (Oct 9, 2005)

Thx for explaining TreeWizard


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## BlueRidgeMark (Oct 12, 2005)

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Works great on anything that grows, including flowers and vegetables.


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## Sheshovel (Oct 18, 2005)

I suggest Catalpa C.speciosa hardy to zone 4.Very fast growing tree with huge leaves and great shade.Thought not 
That long lived it will live many more years than you will.
Black Mulberry is a zone 5 tree,its reputation for slow growth is unjustified as it can put on a few feet a year on its new shoots.It does fruit and the fruit can be eaten,or used in bakeing,icecream,jams,ect,but it takes about 12 years before it fruits.This is an old garden tree with a great habit and wonderfull shade qualities.
Dawn Redwood does not like dry sandy sites


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## CaseyForrest (Oct 26, 2005)

I was going to suggest a Catalpa as well, then I remembered the seed pods...and I changed my mind. How about a Norway Maple, or Emerald Queen?


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