# What is the preferred chip truck GVW?



## ForTheArborist (Aug 30, 2010)

I'm looking up trucks online, and I'm thinking a 26k - 33k GVW truck is what I need to haul around plenty of chips and a big chipper. I can't have one two long since I'm primarily in the urban area. Positioning a 20'+ long truck and chipper doesn't pay enough in my opinion. :deadhorse:


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## pdqdl (Aug 30, 2010)

Got a CDL?

If not, better stay below 26k. Toting a light chipper around is no big deal, either. 12-14k truck + 5K chipper leaves 8k for wood.

That is plenty, most of the time.


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## ForTheArborist (Aug 30, 2010)

It's no big deal to get a CDL though is it? I've been told on other forums that I would be able to take my truck to the test. The guy said he wishes it was as easy to find driving positions where he lives as it was to pass the CDL test.


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## pdqdl (Aug 30, 2010)

No, you must be driven to the test by a properly licensed operator.

In Missouri, you must first pass the written parts of the test, then you call the testing station for a scheduled test. It is usually about 4-6 weeks delay. If you have no experience or training in passing the test, you should count on failing the first time.

No, it doesn't make any difference how well you can drive; passing the test is more dependent on knowing how to pass it than how well you can drive. Get someone to teach you how to pass the test, first. Then get the CDL. 

THEN start looking for a CDL truck.

Or just hire a CDL qualified driver as a groundie. After all, it's not that hard to pass the test, right?

***********************************************************

Note: Many years ago, kids grew up learning how to drive in heavy farm trucks, they went and got a chauffeurs license, and then they were a truck driver. I suspect that you have no real experience on heavy trucks, cause you aren't old enough to have been behind the wheel of a big truck for very long without being forced to be properly licensed.

Failure to understand the very important differences between light trucks and heavy trucks will lead to huge maintenance expenses and possibly some inexperience-caused collisions.

You don't suppose they made getting a CDL difficult for no reason at all, did you?


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## ForTheArborist (Aug 30, 2010)

Studying how to pass the test? I assume that memorizing the rules per the driving manual is not a simple feat, or the test is loaded with a lot of trick questions. Hmmm


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## ForTheArborist (Aug 30, 2010)

Technically the GVW doesn't depict the strength of the engine. It determines capacity of the truck excluding the engine's pull capacity. Is this right?

If I'm right, then a 5,000 lb chipper really only puts maybe 1,000 lb on the truck because the chipper's axle is carrying the load. That is the difference between the trailer tongue weight and the total weight of the trailer.

What I'm hoping here is that I'm going to be able to roll with at least 6 tons of chips at a time and pull a tigger sized chipper too.

I'm looking at a truck right now that has a 99' CAT 3126 in it and a GVW of 25,500 lb. Is anybody experienced enough to tell me what kind of hauling I can do with that?

Thanks


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## ducaticorse (Aug 30, 2010)

ForTheAction said:


> Technically the GVW doesn't depict the strength of the engine. It determines capacity of the truck excluding the engine's pull capacity. Is this right?
> 
> If I'm right, then a 5,000 lb chipper really only puts maybe 1,000 lb on the truck because the chipper's axle is carrying the load. That is the difference between the trailer tongue weight and the total weight of the trailer.
> 
> ...



Yeah,

More than you'll be able to do with a 25.5 gvw. As for CA, I cannot comment, but here in MA any trailer over 10K requires a class a cdl. The heaviest chipper most people would tow around is a tit over 10K. 

Your truck with a full load of chips should weigh in at close IF THATS WHAT IT WAS ORIGINALY DESIGNED TO HAUL, but not over the GVW, if it does, and you get caught at a weigh station, you get bent over. So, even though your cat motor might pull a chip box thats capable of 100 yards (JUST FOR EXAMPLE) if you get pulled over and weighed, and your truck weighs over 25.5, let the fines begin! First off, you get an over weight fine, then if you're lucky, you get busted for driving without a CDL if its 26K plus.

So, you really should be giving us the dimensions of the chip box on your truck, than we could tell you what you want to know.


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## Tree Pig (Aug 30, 2010)

Subtract your loaded vehicle weight from your GVW and thats what you can pull. 

Let say you have a 25,000 GVW. So if your empty truck weighs 12,000 lbs and you put 5000 lbs of chips in it, your loaded weight is 17000lbs the most you can tow is now 8000 lbs. If your empty you can tow closer too 13,000 lbs. Check with your state for licensing requirements.


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## pdqdl (Aug 30, 2010)

ForTheAction said:


> Studying how to pass the test? I assume that memorizing the rules per the driving manual is not a simple feat, or the test is loaded with a lot of trick questions. Hmmm



Yep.

You're learning!


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## ForTheArborist (Aug 30, 2010)

I understand all of this very clearly now. What kind of tonnage is common for everyone at the dump? I assume after seeing all the trucks in the area for several years now and based on the weights in my truck at the dump that 6-10 tons is most common load in everyone's chip trucks.

In my figures I should be hauling between 15 and 20 yards of chips at a time. Is that 6-10 tons by you?


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## pdqdl (Aug 30, 2010)

Regarding GVWR and weight scales:

You can take a 17k GVWR truck, hook up to a 20k GVWR trailer, and legally travel with a 24k GVW load...provided that your LICENSED weight is greater than your actual weight. The DOT enforcement does not attempt to write overweight tickets based on GVWR.

You can get an over-weight ticket 5 different ways, and none of them involve exceeding the GVWR.

1. Exceed posted GrossVehicleWeight limits. example: 82,000 gvr in a 80,000 zone, without having purchased an overweight permit. This includes posted weight limits on any given road or bridge.
2. Exceed loaded weight per axle. Example: you are carrying 29,000lbs on a two axle truck. Oops. You have 13,000 lbs on the front axle, and the legal limit is 12k. Ticket city!
3. Exceed loaded weight per tire. It doesn't matter what your axle or ANY other legal limits are, if the tire is rated at 4080lbs, and you put 5,000 lbs on it: another ticket!
4. Exceed Bridge Law limits: this uses a complex formula that figures the GVW and total wheelbase and axle spacing to determine if you are too heavy. Unless you are running very heavy loads on a short truck, you will be unlikely to get a ticket under these regulations.
5. Exceed licensed weight. Example: Your truck has a 26k GVWR, but you decide to save a bunch of money and you only buy a license for 24k. Big load, get caught, oops! Another ticket.

By the way: you cannot buy an overweight permit for anything but exceeding the posted limits, or your licensed weight only if you are already licensed for the full 80k. If you need to haul a 40k load on a 32k truck: you had better plan on hiring a bigger truck.


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## treeclimber101 (Aug 30, 2010)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> Subtract your loaded vehicle weight from your GVW and thats what you can pull.
> 
> Let say you have a 25,000 GVW. So if your empty truck weighs 12,000 lbs and you put 5000 lbs of chips in it, your loaded weight is 17000lbs the most you can tow is now 8000 lbs. If your empty you can tow closer too 13,000 lbs. Check with your state for licensing requirements.



Wow twinkle toes thats a great formula , really no ball breaking thats a good way , I was gonna say buy the machine that fits the truck , a bit vague though ...Its a little scary when I tow a 1800 with my 3500HD chip truck , lol


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## jefflovstrom (Aug 30, 2010)

treeclimber101 said:


> Wow twinkle toes thats a great formula , really no ball breaking thats a good way , I was gonna say buy the machine that fits the truck , a bit vague though ...Its a little scary when I tow a 1800 with my 3500HD chip truck , lol



We go thru the weigh stations all the time. In California, the chipper DOES get included. 
Jeff


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## treeclimber101 (Aug 30, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> We go thru the weigh stations all the time. In California, the chipper DOES get included.
> Jeff



Not all the time but there are times when we get hit in the weighin , its legal to tow it that way but not loaded with 13 yards of wood chips , but the truck is rarely loaded and hauling that machine unless were far from home , I usually dump around 3pm so we can start empty or at least light ....My bucket will take that machine with a load of chips like its not even there , its just stopping that gets the rotors smoking ...


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## lxt (Aug 30, 2010)

If you can????? load the truck with chips...be careful, very careful & hit up the closest CAT scale for a weigh ticket or find the 1/2 way mark (to be safe) and then go to the scale house!!!

this will give you an idea of chip weight, also use a hard wood as the measuring stick...were tree guys & we always LOAD heavy!!!

good luck!!



LXT................


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## ForTheArborist (Aug 30, 2010)

lxt said:


> If you can????? load the truck with chips...be careful, very careful & hit up the closest CAT scale for a weigh ticket or find the 1/2 way mark (to be safe) and then go to the scale house!!!
> 
> this will give you an idea of chip weight, also use a hard wood as the measuring stick...were tree guys & we always LOAD heavy!!!
> 
> ...



Load and clear. Thanks


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## pdqdl (Aug 30, 2010)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> Subtract your loaded vehicle weight from your GVW and thats what you can pull.
> 
> ...



I would like to correct that to "...thats what you _should not exceed_" 

The GVWR is the manufacturers guideline as to what the vehicle should be limited to. This factors in a number of engineering, legal, and marketing strategies for selling a truck, but it does not really tell you what the load carrying capacity of the vehicle is. 

Naturally, the manufacturer does not wish to be held liable for however much weight a tree service might choose to load onto their truck, so they limit the GVWR a nice safe, sensible load limit. 

The legal limitations set by the DOT are actually rather liberal. Most states have a 18,000 pound load limit on a tandem axle, which is just fine for a heavy duty truck. This isn't really true, however, if you try putting 18,000 pounds on your average 1 ton truck. You will break your truck long before you get 18,000 pounds on that light duty axle. Fortunately, the tire load limits protect the axles a little bit from too much weight.

It is also very easy to overload the driveline of a truck, especially since most light trucks have way too much horsepower. If you load your truck too heavy with logs and a chipper, you might find that you quickly shell out your automatic transmission. If you are dealing with a manual transmission, long-term overloading will certainly eat up the gears, u-joints, and differential.


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## ForTheArborist (Aug 30, 2010)

This is all fine news, but tell me what are the dimensions of your chip box, and what is the heaviest load of chips you've hauled in it? I can figure out how many yards your box carries, and then about how much weight is in those yards of chips. Thanks


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## pdqdl (Aug 30, 2010)

I am afraid I cannot do that. 

I don't ever weigh our loaded trucks, since we only pay by the truckload for disposal. Logs, chips, logs mixed with chips: it all costs the same.


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## jefflovstrom (Aug 30, 2010)

ForTheAction said:


> This is all fine news, but tell me what are the dimensions of your chip box, and what is the heaviest load of chips you've hauled in it? I can figure out how many yards your box carries, and then about how much weight is in those yards of chips. Thanks



Ok, I will play. 20 yard chip box of palm fronds, versus the same box filled with euc. Now figure that out..I saw the CHP on Del Mar Heights Road with their little station set up last week. Dont tell me you know weight to yards, what about the rounds and the chipper is included. Your little chipper ain't more than 2500 lbs, ours are around 6 to 7. I bet you can't figure out one of my loads if I showed it to you unless you pick my brain to no end as you do to everyone. I guess that's OK tho, BTW, a heavy load for us is about 12 to 15k. Average everyday is about 8k. Then add a chipper ( Morbarks). Start figuring. Out of all the 'waanabe's out there, You are so far moving up.
Jeff :newbie:


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## jefflovstrom (Aug 30, 2010)

P.S., The scales at the dump are not what I am talking about. It is on your way to the dump, so 

Jeff


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## ForTheArborist (Aug 30, 2010)

Well, I'm going to keep it legal, Jeff. That's really what it's about. 

That little chipper I'm picking up now will serve as a back up later. I'm to be picking up a 12"-18" within a few months to put on the big chip truck as the primary option. 

What does your truck with the 15K in it weigh by itself? What are the dimensions of the box approximately? 

I'm thinking the 25,500 GVW truck is not enough. Tell me this. If I fill up the 12' L x 8' H x 8' W box with Eucs or Scrub Oaks in chips or rounds, am I going be 15k heavy? That's a 20yd box for ya, but I think your company tanks 30 yarders to the job sites right.


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## ForTheArborist (Aug 30, 2010)

pdqdl said:


> I am afraid I cannot do that.
> 
> I don't ever weigh our loaded trucks, since we only pay by the truckload for disposal. Logs, chips, logs mixed with chips: it all costs the same.



I was guessing that when I was writing. I've read a lot about how business is done in most places.


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## jefflovstrom (Aug 30, 2010)

ForTheAction said:


> Well, I'm going to keep it legal, Jeff. That's really what it's about.
> 
> That little chipper I'm picking up now will serve as a back up later. I'm to be picking up a 12"-18" within a few months to put on the big chip truck as the primary option.
> 
> ...



Yeah, need to handle alot. Some day we may be freinds if you don't screw it up!


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## jefflovstrom (Aug 30, 2010)

Heavy!
Jeff


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## ForTheArborist (Aug 30, 2010)

Well, The I better just stick to my business. :greenchainsaw:

That is a 20 yard chip box in the pics. You're saying you guys go in 15k heavy + 7k lb chipper with that truck!?!?: jawdrop: I know that truck is no more than a 26k GVW, and that is already 22k before the weight of the truck by itself. 

That's OK, Jeff. You don't have explain if you don't want to.


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## jefflovstrom (Aug 31, 2010)

ForTheAction said:


> Well, The I better just stick to my business. :greenchainsaw:
> 
> That is a 20 yard chip box in the pics. You're saying you guys go in 15k heavy + 7k lb chipper with that truck!?!?: jawdrop: I know that truck is no more than a 26k GVW, and that is already 22k before the weight of the truck by itself.
> 
> That's OK, Jeff. You don't have explain if you don't want to.



That is why you up it to 40, duh!, cheap to do if you can drive it legally or got a guy. That pic is old, don't have the two doors trucks no more. I have a great variety of trucks, including an International 4700 Series with a 10 yard, great on the golf courses! Man, glad that wasn't in the pic or you would of cut me down more! My pic was to show you a heavy chipper that if you get pulled over with a load and the chipper still attached, well, You get it. Hey want some pics of our trucks ? Close-up of the 40 sticker?

Jeff


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## ForTheArborist (Aug 31, 2010)

Na, I already believe that whole outfit you're in has everything there is to sell a tree company. Besides that I've just about studied the whole fleet of trucks that's listed on all of the web sites. Couple of more photos of trucks isn't going to make all of the difference this round.


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## mikewhite85 (Sep 1, 2010)

If you get a truck about 26,000, Get ready to open your wallet for insurance costs. From what I have heard, insuring a driver with a new CDL is like insuring a brand new driver... then there is the liability for the weight of the truck. I imagine it's several thousand a year to insure a big truck like that. I think the law is a minimum of 750k liability. Hope you can find a good deal. If you have got the volume of work it's undoubtedly worth it... but it kills you when you are slow... then there's the worker's comp... holy cow


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 1, 2010)

mikewhite85 said:


> If you get a truck about 26,000, Get ready to open your wallet for insurance costs. From what I have heard, insuring a driver with a new CDL is like insuring a brand new driver... then there is the liability for the weight of the truck. I imagine it's several thousand a year to insure a big truck like that. I think the law is a minimum of 750k liability. Hope you can find a good deal. If you have got the volume of work it's undoubtedly worth it... but it kills you when you are slow... then there's the worker's comp... holy cow



You said it Mike, but some don't listen and figure different. They think the law is only for the big guys.
Jeff


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## ForTheArborist (Sep 2, 2010)

Thanks, Mike. I'll look right into that. I was looking into one of these things with my brother's "expertise." He was saying that particular truck I showed him is probably 40k GVW, but the owners only have 25.5k on the placard to stay under 26k. The costs you pointed out must be why they are registering trucks below the 26k bar.


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