# New SpeedPro Kinetic Log Splitter from TSC...



## stumpy75

http://www.tractorsupply.com/outdoor-power-equipment/log-splitters/

Edit: CORRECTED LINK....

I noticed at TSC, that they now list a Speeco Kinetic Log Splitter. Looks to be like a DR RapidFire Log Splitter, but I could not find anything on the Speeco page about it. Price isn't too bad either. I had not seen in on their site until today. My local TSC does not have one in stock.

Anyone know anything about this splitter?


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## jeeptj19992001

World's Fastest Log Splitter - DR RapidFire - YouTube

my bad different design the dr


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## Pcoz88

WOW?? Who else is going to come out with this type of log splitter?But which one to chose?!?!?!?!?!?!?:bang::bang:


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## Dalmatian90

Holy Cow!

Website is giving me a price of $1699 for the Speedco. 

Whose been using this forum for market research? 

I suspect this will all actually be good for SuperSplit -- between TSC & DR that exposes a lot more people to flywheel log splitters who've never heard of them before. Might lose a few sales from it, but a rising tide lifts all boats and I'd bet the original company will benefit if this style becomes more popular overall.


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## Maplekid

Super split just lost a sale. I was going to get the HD model this year after I sold enough wood to pay for one but at a grand cheaper I cant justify the super splitter. I might have to modify the handle so that it cycles with out you holding it. Thats why I was gettign the super split over the DR Rapid Fire. The price difference of the dr and ss werent enough to justify not getting auto cycle. Speedco is ovbiously paying attention to what people on arboristsite want. Next time I got to Tractor supply Im checking them out. Hopefully the local store stocks them soon.


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## KiwiBro

Cheaper AND with a "196cc" engine. I can see an after market self-transporting mod in the works already.


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## William Balaska

Looks decent. Definitely going to readjust what the other's are thinking.


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## CWME

Was going to get the DR model but now have pause to which one to get. The "two handed operation" looks like a major PITA. Push the green button and then push the lever. That would get old real quick.

At $600 savings over the DR model not sure if that two handed garbage is a deal breaker or not. The speeco can be towed and that would be a big plus.

Going to see if TSC has one to look at. I like the log cradle on the speeco. Hands are free of the moving parts.


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## Mntn Man

I was buying chainsaws after getting CAD. Lately, I have had a taste for guns. After just refurbing my Huskee, I don't need to see all of these new kinetic splitters coming on the market. I don't need one. I don't need one. I don't need one. Repeat after me.:bang:


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## redoakneck

I saw that thing when I was picking up some bar oil. They haven't sold any yet here, but looks pretty cool.

opcorn:


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## sunfish

Working height too low, with the table even lower.

Engagement leaver looks backwards.

Looks very lightly built. Not heavy duty!

Tow tongue all in the way.

This should help the sales of the other flywheel splitters.

I'll take the Super Split!


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## wdchuck

sunfish said:


> Working height too low, with the table even lower.
> 
> Engagement leaver looks backwards.
> 
> Looks very lightly built. Not heavy duty!
> 
> Tow tongue all in the way.
> 
> This should help the sales of the other flywheel splitters.
> 
> I'll take the Super Split!


 
What he said, plus lose the cradle. As the other SS users have mentioned, the wood sometimes, often needs to be split from outside in, unlike a hydraulic unit which can split through the center. The cradle becomes a hindrance in that situation. 

I'll save my money for a SS.


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## STLfirewood

Not having to deal with the 2 handed operation is worth at least 1k for me. That would be a deal breaker. They must not use these before the sell them because that log cradle would be a big pain in the butt. When splitting with these types of splitter it is faster and easier on you to be able to slide the wood back to the beam. Lifting it on the cradle will really slow you down and wear you out. I give them credit for trying to make it towable. If I want to tow mine I just use a 4x8 tilt trailer. I would consider the DR before I would buy this one. I still favor the SS over both though. These things work and will outsplit a normal hydraulic hands down even with log cradle. You will have this machine for 20years spend a few extra dollars and get the good one. 


Scott


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## sunfish

Well, somebody go out and buy one of these dang things, use it for a couple days. Then write up a detailed review and post it here, with lots of photos.

Lets get-er-done! :msp_smile:


P.S. Same with the DR...


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## William Balaska

I called Tractor supply in Nazerath PA today, they are not in yet but may arrive tomorrow and be on display by Wednesday. I have the chace to buy a 2 year old super splitter Heavy duty model and electric motor for two grand but it has no tow package and is powered by a two horse electric motr, not quite what I need, so I'm going to look at the speeco speedpro and make a decision. My nearly 20 year old 22 ton MTD is starting to tire after hundreds of cords and I have had it sixteed years, i'm ready to upgrade. Not one failure with my MTD!


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## angelo c

William Balaska said:


> I called Tractor supply in Nazerath PA today, they are not in yet but may arrive tomorrow and be on display by Wednesday. I have the chace to buy a 2 year old super splitter Heavy duty model and electric motor for two grand but it has no tow package and is powered by a two horse electric motr, not quite what I need, so I'm going to look at the speeco speedpro and make a decision. My nearly 20 year old 22 ton MTD is starting to tire after hundreds of cords and I have had it sixteed years, i'm ready to upgrade. Not one failure with my MTD!


 
Bill, 
No need for towing package, throw it in the back of any p/up truck. The electric motor comes in handy when you want to split IN the garage, IN the winter or any indoor use, like when its raining outside. You can easily convert back and forth from Gas to electric as its the belt that drives the flywheels and not really the motor( of course you need A motor but which one don't matter so much). Let me know if you want to have a go at a gas motor SS. I still owe you some time for that 66 carb rebuild. Hope your feeling better. Keep in touch.

2 g's aint that bad if its in good shape. I think I saw that on CL.

Did i hear GTG at Bills ???? hehe.


A


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## epicklein22

Amazing how the inertia splitters are popping up all of the sudden. The DR looks pretty good, but I'm content with my SS. We hammered out 5 cords with it yesterday in no time! Have 60 or so cords on in since last June. We don't baby it either, it is a tool and needs to perform and be tough. It has no problem doing that. My conveyor is the weak point of our setup.

There are definitely some things I would change on the SS (slightly taller wedge; larger sealed bearings (my freeze up quite a bit), stronger return springs, stronger front leg), but none of those things are that big of a deal and I could have that stuff fabbed up pretty easily.

If you want one of these splitters, go SS.


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## goosegunner

Saw one at TSC today, they have used it to demo but I did not see it in action. The table height is about the same as the Huskee/ Speeco hydraulic models.

It is a lot bigger than I thought it would be. The woman at the store said it is fast but doesn't handle knots too well Unless hit 2 or 3 times.

gg


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## fox2

*Absolutely awesome*

I just bought one today and joined the forum to share my experience. It is in fact huge and the tongue is in fact in the way but not a huge issue at all. It is almost or at 9 feet long. I actually went to TSC this morning with my brother who works there (we went halfs) to pick it up. I thought, at first inspection, it would be weak but it is actually not at all. It feels very heavy duty and actually weighs in at almost 600 pounds. The handle is in fact backwards. The two handed operation it very cumbersome but also makes the machine very safe to use. I am going to fab up an attacment handle that will bolt up to the original to make it forward facing while maintaining the original machine in its current condition (for warranty purposes) (should take less than 15 minutes with a welder and a tap set). Also, for all the skeptics, the safety button that makes it a two handed machine is the simplest of blocks. It can be disable in less than a minute with a zip tie. The benefit to that is that if someone perhaps is borrowing it (usually family) that you are a bit nervous about, then you can just cut the zip tie and it is back to a two handed operation. Obviously I do not advocate bypassing safety measures but I know it will be important to some 
Now on to the important info:
This thing is powerful. I don't know why the nazereth attendant said it does not handle knotty pieces very well because it does. I ran it today about two hours and put everyuthing from 2" diameter (kinda tricky) to 28" diameter and it split it all with ease. I also wedged the 'v' section of a protruding limb on the wedge and it split with ease. All-in-all I would say this machine gets 5 stars. I cant obviously speak to long term durability yet but everything I have seen is absolutely fantastic. Keep in mind I have never used a gripo or super splitter, etc. I have however, used a ton of hydraulic splitters and this thing is awesome. I sprung for the 4 year protection plan for 269 (definately woth it) so even if it is not durable I'll get at least 5 years out of it. My personal opinion, I would not spend the extra buck for the other brands. this things does everything I though it would. 
PS:
I am also going to make an extended (its a bit short) 4-way wedge to see how it handle the 4 way. When I do that (may be a week or more) I will post how that works perhaps. 
If you have not, I would at least consider this machine and go take a look at one at your local TSC.


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## CampHamp

I saw he SpeedPro in action today at the TSC in here in southern New Hampshire. I arrived as they tried to start it for the first time after their assembly.

The two guys working there couldn't start it and it turned out that the gas line was kinked under the fuel tank (this was a factory assembly issue). Easy to fix. I waited. It started.

Now I've never seen any fly-wheel system before this, but the thing was wobbling as if the fly-wheels were not well-balanced. It wobbled the most as it wound down when turned off (like a clothes washer does when it's out-of-balance on the rinse cycle). It was still usable, but I didn't think there should be that much (if any) shaking. It was on pavement and this might have amplified the problem.

I liked that it came with the table and tow package (no extra $$$) and that the price was right, especially when you want these options (not even sure I would be able to tow the DR RapidFire around the property?).

They didn't have any logs, but they tried splitting stacked pieces of lumber :msp_thumbdn: (crappy test, but all they could do). It moves quickly and it obviously did not have any problem going through the boards. It made me think that the two-hand control is the right call with this equipment, for me. I don't see any reason to have hands on the log when you split for that 1 second (maybe I'm missing something :msp_confused. I'd feel better loaning this out to friends/family this way, too.

Anyway, they will assemble the second unit this week and see if it also totters. If I learn anything new, I will post again. I also want to see the DR machine before I make a decision, but I will buy something this fall.


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## KiwiBro

Thanks for your post. I look forward to reading what you think of it after many many hours of use and hopefully in varying wood. If there is any chance you could post pics and a few vids of it in use, that would be wonderful. Thanks again. 


fox2 said:


> I just bought one today and joined the forum to share my experience.


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## fox2

*Reply*

I ran a real wet pine through it out of curiosity and it split fine. I hit a few birch with it. Also, some rock solid maple that takes approximatey 15 swings with a 12 pound all steel maul to crack, and the knottiest stuff you can find, and it never studdered. Mine does not shake. It shimmies for half a second when you kill the motor but the flywheels (there are two symmetrical flywheels) weigh in at 70 pounds each so I would expect nothing less. 
I ran about 4-5 cords today and hope to do 8 more tomorrow as a two man operation so it will be quick. ill beat it up and let you guys know how it does. I may make the 4way slip wedge this weeks as I am anxious to see how it does. If a hydro splitter can handle it I assume this will do fine also as it splits better than any hydro I have ever used.


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## KiwiBro

Given the flywheels are the main weight, I wonder how much, if any, difference it makes having the motor mounted lower than the DR and SS brands? I guess it's a step in the right direction?


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## William Balaska

angelo c said:


> Bill,
> No need for towing package, throw it in the back of any p/up truck. The electric motor comes in handy when you want to split IN the garage, IN the winter or any indoor use, like when its raining outside. You can easily convert back and forth from Gas to electric as its the belt that drives the flywheels and not really the motor( of course you need A motor but which one don't matter so much). Let me know if you want to have a go at a gas motor SS. I still owe you some time for that 66 carb rebuild. Hope your feeling better. Keep in touch.
> 
> 2 g's aint that bad if its in good shape. I think I saw that on CL.
> 
> Did i hear GTG at Bills ???? hehe.
> 
> 
> A


 
How ya been Angelo? I'm feeling a bit better these days, yeah the one on CL, not quite what I want, but not a bad deal I guess. Didn't know you had the SS, I wouldn't mind a go at it. I couldn't get it together for the GTG thus far this year, but I have a nother triaxle load of logs coming this fall so we'll see.


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## angelo c

William Balaska said:


> How ya been Angelo? I'm feeling a bit better these days, yeah the one on CL, not quite what I want, but not a bad deal I guess. Didn't know you had the SS, I wouldn't mind a go at it. I couldn't get it together for the GTG thus far this year, but I have a nother triaxle load of logs coming this fall so we'll see.


 
let me know when you get your load dropped. If you want to run the SS before drop me a PM. I got a trailer of oak that needs splittin asap. I got a friend around the corner with a TW6 that we can play with too for comparisons as well. If you run into it I need some 031av parts...I know I know too small for you but I figured I'ld ask.


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## redoakneck

Angelo, what 031 parts do you need??? I have 4 031 runners, 2 in the making, and a box of parts. Let me know what you need,


Pete


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## mooseracing

fox2 said:


> Mine does not shake.


 
Maybe you got lucky? Watching the videos on the Speeco site you can see the wood on the table dancing around and also sometimes the wood on the beam. Definitely makes me a little more curious. Not a deal breaker but I haven't been around a flywheel splitter to know how much is normal.


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## stumpy75

Thanks for the link to Speeco page. I still have not found a link to that one listed on their home page though. Guess it's too new...


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## sunfish

CampHamp said:


> Now I've never seen any fly-wheel system before this, but the thing was wobbling as if the fly-wheels were not well-balanced. It wobbled the most as it wound down when turned off (like a clothes washer does when it's out-of-balance on the rinse cycle). It was still usable, but I didn't think there should be that much (if any) shaking. It was on pavement and this might have amplified the problem.


 


fox2 said:


> Mine does not shake. It shimmies for half a second when you kill the motor but the flywheels (there are two symmetrical flywheels) weigh in at 70 pounds each so I would expect nothing less.


 


mooseracing said:


> Maybe you got lucky? Watching the videos on the Speeco site you can see the wood on the table dancing around and also sometimes the wood on the beam. Definitely makes me a little more curious. Not a deal breaker but I haven't been around a flywheel splitter to know how much is normal.


The shimmy, shimmy coco pop would be a huge deal breaker for me. Flywheels are out of balance, or out of round, or???

My Super Split is super smooth, no vibration at all. I've been around a couple other SS splitters and they too were very smooth.

When I talked to Paul at SS, he said high quality, balanced flywheels were most important for these machines to last and be trouble free.

You guys be careful out there!


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## KiwiBro

FWIW, did y'all know Blount bought Speeco last year?


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## BSD

i stopped in at our local TSC and they had one, stuffed in the back. They couldn't get it to fire up. I told them its probably a kink in the fuel line based on what I read here. The assembly/mechanic guy there said he'd try to have it running by the end of the week.

As for the build quality I was pretty impressed. very stout little machine. Balanced well (although like mentioned, the tongue is on the wrong side). It weighs in at almost 600lbs which I was pretty shocked about. there is a nice replaceable SS wear plate on the beam too. The safety button seems clumsy, but that can always be modified.


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## angelo c

redoakneck said:


> Angelo, what 031 parts do you need??? I have 4 031 runners, 2 in the making, and a box of parts. Let me know what you need,
> 
> 
> Pete


 
Pete, 
i'm not 100% sure yet. I was told its a "points" problem but it is an AV so I also understand that the AV is an ignition model. I haven't broken it down yet as its a friends saw, and its more of an emotional rebuild then a functional one. I got two more projects ahead of it then I start my own projects for the winter ...

I'll get back to you on whats needed and thank you very much for the offer. I might need some insight down the road as well. Im more familiar with the newer models.


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## William Balaska

angelo c said:


> Pete,
> i'm not 100% sure yet. I was told its a "points" problem but it is an AV so I also understand that the AV is an ignition model. I haven't broken it down yet as its a friends saw, and its more of an emotional rebuild then a functional one. I got two more projects ahead of it then I start my own projects for the winter ...
> 
> I'll get back to you on whats needed and thank you very much for the offer. I might need some insight down the road as well. Im more familiar with the newer models.


 
It shares the ignition module with the 075/076 series saws, not likely to have points. A common failure in this saw.


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## CampHamp

mooseracing said:


> Maybe you got lucky? Watching the videos on the Speeco site you can see the wood on the table dancing around and also sometimes the wood on the beam. Definitely makes me a little more curious. Not a deal breaker but I haven't been around a flywheel splitter to know how much is normal.


 
Yes, there is the same shaking that I observed at the store demo! I wonder if an SS owner could take a look and say if this is just the nature of fly-wheel machinery or if there is a difference here between products.

The video link is found on the product page:
SpeedPro Kinetic Log Splitter - 1022655 | Tractor Supply Company

25% into the video, when he manually places a log on the bar, you can see the log move more than an inch from center before it is split due to this shaking. The accuracy of that split is certainly affected. Would that happen on an SS, I wonder? Would this shaking effect the life of the engine or any other components?


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## epicklein22

sunfish said:


> The shimmy, shimmy coco pop would be a huge deal breaker for me. Flywheels are out of balance, or out of round, or???
> 
> My Super Split is super smooth, no vibration at all. I've been around a couple other SS splitters and they too were very smooth.
> 
> When I talked to Paul at SS, he said high quality, balanced flywheels were most important for these machines to last and be trouble free.
> 
> You guys be careful out there!


 
My SS has a shimmy if on a hard surface and/or if the motor is turned up. Kind of annoying... Also, the splitter will works its way backwards if the front leg or wheels are blocked. I usually split on a base of woodchips and put my front leg inside of the hitch on the conveyor. Works good for me like that.

My partner brought a crane load of logs over the other day, so we are gonna try and knock that out this weekend after a tree job.


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## Axe Man

Drove across the border to Houlton Maine today as I was going to TSC in Presque Isle to see if they had a kinetic splitter there.
As I turned up Hwy 1 and headed north, I see they're building a TSC in Houlton. Opening date is Oct. 8.
Since Houlton is about 40 minute from where I live instead of the 1 1/2 drive to Presque Isle I thought I'd wait for store opening to see if they had any opening specials on the kinetic splitter or even the 28 ton huskee.
Any more reviews on this splitter would be appreciated so keep them coming. Thanks!


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## angelo c

William Balaska said:


> It shares the ignition module with the 075/076 series saws, not likely to have points. A common failure in this saw.


 
Hey Bill !!!

Got any 075/076 ignition modules ??? hehe !!! Thanks, I hear that is a common failure. Is it a straight R/R or is it a repairable part?

I figured the 031 would be right up your alley, too small, but still in your strike zone...


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## angelo c

epicklein22 said:


> My SS has a shimmy if on a hard surface and/or if the motor is turned up. Kind of annoying... Also, the splitter will works its way backwards if the front leg or wheels are blocked. I usually split on a base of woodchips and put my front leg inside of the hitch on the conveyor. Works good for me like that.
> 
> My partner brought a crane load of logs over the other day, so we are gonna try and knock that out this weekend after a tree job.


 
Mine doesn't vibrate either. Im thinking one of the wheels is out of balance. might be hard to isolate unless you remove them and balance separately with those tape weights they use on fancy magnesium auto rims. Can't hurt to try. a simple motorcycle wheel balancer might work well . 
Amazon.com: Heavy Duty Motorcycle Tire Wheel Balancing Balancer Truing Stand: Sports & Outdoors


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## redoakneck

Angelo, if it is a points model and the spark is weak, replace the condensor/capacitor with a WIMA. I have some and can give you one. If it has the electronic ignition then replace?

Pete


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## stumpy75

My TSC got one in yesterday, and had it assembled today. Since nobody was around, I actually got a chance to look closely at it. Based on what was said here, I decided to shake it back and forth, and without running, it wobbled quite a bit... I'd kind of hate to see what it does when running, but just rocking it showed it to sway pretty bad. That's something I have not seen in the other Husky hydraulic splitters...


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## airwolf

Watch the video on the tractorsupply website. The ram seems to extend too fast. A lot of the pieces are launched right off of the worktable.


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## William Balaska

airwolf said:


> Watch the video on the tractorsupply website. The ram seems to extend too fast. A lot of the pieces are launched right off of the worktable.


 
Isn't that the point, What did You expect it to do?:bang:


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## angelo c

redoakneck said:


> Angelo, if it is a points model and the spark is weak, replace the condensor/capacitor with a WIMA. I have some and can give you one. If it has the electronic ignition then replace?
> 
> Pete


 
thanks Pete, 
I should be able to get a look at her tomorrow morning. between football practice and two soccer games, cutting the lawn and splitting some wood oh and cutting my mothers lawn and....


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## arlen

*not getting hit with rounds*



CWME said:


> Was going to get the DR model but now have pause to which one to get. The "two handed operation" looks like a major PITA. Push the green button and then push the lever. That would get old real quick.
> 
> At $600 savings over the DR model not sure if that two handed garbage is a deal breaker or not. The speeco can be towed and that would be a big plus.
> 
> Going to see if TSC has one to look at. I like the log cradle on the speeco. Hands are free of the moving parts.



Another good point is when the rounds explode or pop apart and shoot 20' in either direction you are not standing in front of they to catch the round in your face or groin area:msp_w00t:
I was hit in the head once by a round last year that required stitches, so I like the design and where the operator stands.


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## airwolf

Originally Posted by airwolf 
Watch the video on the tractorsupply website. The ram seems to extend too fast. A lot of the pieces are launched right off of the worktable.


William Balaska said:


> Isn't that the point, What did You expect it to do?:bang:



That's not a problem for pieces that have been split to their final size. For larger pieces that need to be split again, you would have to stoop down to retrieve these pieces off the ground for resplitting. The whole point of an outfeed worktable is to provide a waist high area for larger splits to stop on, so you can resplit them without having to stoop and retrieve them from the ground. If you wanted all the splits to go on the ground, you wouldn't need an outfeed table at all.

Watch the videos of the Supersplit. All of the splits stop on the outfeed table. They only get pushed off to the ground if you push them off manually, or if you leave them and let the next log push them off.


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## Pcoz88

*Its made in china!!!!*

Well I just came back from my local TSC.The splitter was still in the box and they still had to put it together.The outside of the box said MADE IN..........."CHINA".
Well that's why there so cheap.They open the box up and i looked at it.The weld for the wedge is alright and it will hold but.Iam going to ck it out tomorrow if they get it together.They said it would take 2 hours to put together.Well that sucks I was interested in it until I saw Made in china.


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## Pcoz88

*Demoed neew splitter from speeco.*

That machine is wicked,scary FAST!!It split oak like butter.That was at half speed.Full speed its shacks tooooooooo much.Does the DR or SS shack???Iam interested and its tow able.If you never seen one in person work you're missing out!And yes its made in china.Its faster then the Dr one in the dvd Dr sends out or it least looks way faster.Still tring to decide. $1000 difference is alot!!


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## KiwiBro

Pcoz88 said:


> That machine is wicked,scary FAST!!It split oak like butter.That was at half speed.Full speed its shacks tooooooooo much.Does the DR or SS shack???Iam interested and its tow able.If you never seen one in person work you're missing out!And yes its made in china.Its faster then the Dr one in the dvd Dr sends out or it least looks way faster.Still tring to decide. $1000 difference is alot!!


 

With any luck, it might just be fast enough to scare your friends, neighbours and family enough to dissuade them from asking to borrow it.


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## TFPace

*Differing designs*

This is an interesting thread.

I have looked at both the Speeco and DR videos and web pages. Both are interesting machines.

I'll have to say that I like that DR allows the potential buyer to "see under the hood" were Speeco doesn't. The DR machine appears to be a close copy of the SS?

What gets me is that DR machine doesn't have a hitch and they don't show how to move the thing around your job site. With the flotation tires it is built to NOT trailer on the hi-way.
The safety feature that the Speeco has is most likely due to keep the lawyers off of someones back after they smash theirs hand.

I have watched the kinetic splitter posts on AS for several years now. It looks like the marketing guys at the TSC's have too


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## sunfish

Pcoz88 said:


> That machine is wicked,scary FAST!!It split oak like butter.That was at half speed.Full speed its shacks tooooooooo much.*Does the DR or SS shack???*Iam interested and its tow able.If you never seen one in person work you're missing out!And yes its made in china.Its faster then the Dr one in the dvd Dr sends out or it least looks way faster.Still tring to decide. $1000 difference is alot!!


 
The shake, shimmer thing was discussed earlier. The SS does not have much shake, vibration, or wobble, mine is very smooth at all rpm.

*Lets see, it shakes too much and it's made in China*...:msp_blink: :msp_rolleyes:


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## Pcoz88

They took the covers off the speeco splitter for us!!It looks built pretty good.BUT.......................I don't know........Its towable is a real selling point.


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## BSD

our local TSC finally got their unit running. so I went to check it out, I was concerned about the shake and shimmy that's been reported... started it up and ran it at half throttle, 3/4 throttle and full tilt and no shake at all. So I bought it. I got it home and put a couple pieces of big black black cherry through it in the rain. Tomorrow I'll get some real splitting time with it. The first thing to go will be that annoying safety button. There's no point of having a 2.5 second cycle time if it takes 5 seconds to push the safety and push the lever. second will be to reverse the handle to face forward like the SS.


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## Pcoz88

May be a few have balance issues.:mad2::mad2:Iam emailing speeco about it.Iam not buying something I can't run at full speed.Iam really interested in buying one!!

BSD ,Let us know how your new splitter does.

Pete


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## Iron Mike

I have had a Supersplit since the summer of 2003. Every year it has split 10-12 full ( 128 cu ft ) cords for my boiler, fine split enough wood for 2000 bundles a year and some years we sell a little bulk fireplace wood in the winter. In late August the pinion gear gave up and all the teeth sheard off when my son mis-read a croth piece and the pusher got stuck and could not pop up to release. This can happen on occasion in nasty knotty, crotch or bigger elm pieces, but we do not shy away from splitting anything. Paul at Supersplit sent me the new gear, which was a measly 100 bucks , we visited for a bit, and he also sent along a new clutch for the Subaru engine that I have, just for the heck of it. The repair took less than a half hour. I spent about 2400 bucks on my splitter in '03 and other than two 15 dollar belts and oil changes, this 100 dollar repair is the first one I have had. It is smooth at all speeds and does not wobble. The machine is not babied, and sits outside more than it should. We split nothing but hardwoods. I know that it is tempting to buy a cheap copy, but the best is always the cheapest in the long run. When will we stop the race to the bottom in this country and keep putting the Pauls at Supersplit out of business with our buying decissions....when we all live in grass huts?


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## BSD

generally I do try to buy american first but at 70% of the price of a SS i'll take my chances. This one is highway towable and has heavier components. Even @$1700 this thing is horribly overpriced. I can't justify a SS with a table for $2700. The $'s do not add up. this thing can't have more than $500 worth of steel on it, the kohler is a couple hundred bucks. 

I'm curious why no one bashes the speeco owners of "traditional" design...

anyways, I got my unit modified and removed that safety button. it took about 20 minutes of tinkering around and seeing whatelse could be done to reverse the handle to make it little easier to use.

I split some big pieces of cherry, a couple knotted pieces of oak and I must say it didn't disappoint. at one point I lowered the engine speed down as slow as it would go and still have the clutch engaged and put a nasty piece of oak in there and pulled the trigger. while it didn't go through on the first attempt it went through on the second, and that was with engine speed down as far as it would go. I still haven't run it at full throttle either, there is no need.


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## BSD

here are some pics of under the hood. first is just after removing the covers and the second two are after the safety is removed and part of the framework for the handle too while I was poking around.
View attachment 200379
View attachment 200381
View attachment 200382


after using it for a while I will say you want the logs to have very flush cut ends, i put a couple through that had some slanted cuts and it was a bit unpredictable where they would end up. had one come up about face-high and land by the engine. all and all I'm impressed so far. i'll try to put it through its paces over the next few days and weeks as we start production for 2012-2013 wood.


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## KiwiBro




----------



## KiwiBro

BSD said:


> generally I do try to buy american first but at 70% of the price of a SS i'll take my chances. This one is highway towable and has heavier components. Even @$1700 this thing is horribly overpriced. I can't justify a SS with a table for $2700. The $'s do not add up. this thing can't have more than $500 worth of steel on it, the kohler is a couple hundred bucks.
> 
> I'm curious why no one bashes the speeco owners of "traditional" design...
> 
> anyways, I got my unit modified and removed that safety button. it took about 20 minutes of tinkering around and seeing whatelse could be done to reverse the handle to make it little easier to use.
> 
> I split some big pieces of cherry, a couple knotted pieces of oak and I must say it didn't disappoint. at one point I lowered the engine speed down as slow as it would go and still have the clutch engaged and put a nasty piece of oak in there and pulled the trigger. while it didn't go through on the first attempt it went through on the second, and that was with engine speed down as far as it would go. I still haven't run it at full throttle either, there is no need.



Thanks for the pics and for the initial review. If you get time and are so inclined, would you be able to break down in some detail the mods you did in please?

It would be great to also keep reading how your splitter is holding up after a week, month, etc.

Highway towable is a great bonus over the SS design, although I do still wonder how top heavy it is, but the lower (than SS/DR) engine is a good start.

Regarding Iron Mike's "race to the bottom" comment, I understand the sentiment. The same thing happens at alarming rates here in NZ - too many worship at the alter of 'cheap' rather than 'value'. We import crap, our trade deficit and along with it the influence of others over our destiny grows, and we pay through the nose and wallets to pollute our lands with mountainous monuments of consumerism called landfills. But one of the best things about this forum is it sorts out, via many willing and serious users, the products based on merit, not blind fanboy faith. Well, the fanboys/girls are alive and kicking on this forum too, but most of us, I would hope, can see through that. That is why I'm not about to automatically write a cheaper product off as lesser quality. I'll keep an open mind and listen to users like BSD and others and let time be one of the judges too.


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## KiwiBro

Pcoz88 said:


> May be a few have balance issues.:mad2::mad2:Iam emailing speeco about it.



Good idea. Please let us know what they have to say. I wonder if, as is often the case ex: China, QC on the flywheel balancing isn't quite up there with the best.


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## CUCV

I'd put a tach on the motor before worrying to much about the vibration. My SS vibrates like a bastard when the motors turning 4600rpm  my throttle stop now has a piece of keystock welded in place so the tab can't bend over.


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## TFPace

*TSC is out of them*

In North-Carolina, none of the TSC's in my area (Winston-Salem, Greensboro)have any of these splitters in stock. The manager did a search and his store along with every store in his district was due two (2) per store. He didn't know when any would arrive either.

I'd have to drive into Virginia.... 1.5 hours one way to find a TCS that has one on their floor. Oh well.

It appears that TSC is spreading these machines around in small quantities.


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## sunfish

CUCV said:


> I'd put a tach on the motor before worrying to much about the vibration. *My SS vibrates like a bastard when the motors turning 4600rpm*  my throttle stop now has a piece of keystock welded in place so the tab can't bend over.


 
3600 should be max rpm for the SS and for most small gas motors. 

My SS is silky smooth running wide open.


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## wdchuck

Quite a bit of rust for a new unit. 

I'd have to do a cost analysis before calling a product overpriced.


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## sunfish

wdchuck said:


> Quite a bit of rust for a new unit.
> 
> I'd have to do a cost analysis before calling a product overpriced.


 
I also noticed the rust. This could be a problem not too far down the road...


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## buildmyown

Iron Mike said:


> I have had a Supersplit since the summer of 2003. Every year it has split 10-12 full ( 128 cu ft ) cords for my boiler, fine split enough wood for 2000 bundles a year and some years we sell a little bulk fireplace wood in the winter. In late August the pinion gear gave up and all the teeth sheard off when my son mis-read a croth piece and the pusher got stuck and could not pop up to release. This can happen on occasion in nasty knotty, crotch or bigger elm pieces, but we do not shy away from splitting anything. Paul at Supersplit sent me the new gear, which was a measly 100 bucks , we visited for a bit, and he also sent along a new clutch for the Subaru engine that I have, just for the heck of it. The repair took less than a half hour. I spent about 2400 bucks on my splitter in '03 and other than two 15 dollar belts and oil changes, this 100 dollar repair is the first one I have had. It is smooth at all speeds and does not wobble. The machine is not babied, and sits outside more than it should. We split nothing but hardwoods. I know that it is tempting to buy a cheap copy, but the best is always the cheapest in the long run. When will we stop the race to the bottom in this country and keep putting the Pauls at Supersplit out of business with our buying decissions....when we all live in grass huts?



Wow thats a really odd failure ive bound mine up plenty of times and smoked a belt but to shear the teeth off the gear thats just one of those wow moments. To the best of my knowledge the SS I have is 30 years old and has split thousands of cords it was used in a commercial operation before I got it, the only big part that has been replaced is the motor. Its been kept outside with a tarp of some sort its whole life. Its rusty, worn and ugly but that Honda still starts first pull and the machine still splits all day everytime its asked to.


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## buildmyown

wdchuck said:


> Quite a bit of rust for a new unit.
> 
> I'd have to do a cost analysis before calling a product overpriced.


 


sunfish said:


> I also noticed the rust. This could be a problem not too far down the road...




If you two saw the rust on my SS after sitting outside for 30 years with just a tarp over it you would probally cry.


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## Pcoz88

*Went to another TSC*

Went to another TSC(Sandusky,Ohio). I was surprised that they had 2 of them.A guy came out and started one up.Put it to full throttle and it didn't hardly shack at all as compared to first one I demoed.That kholer engine said "crafted in China",I would change engine after awhile,it say kholer but its low grade.

I understand about buying American but like BSD said"70% less" its tow able and it comes with table and no shipping.Its greaseable and iam surpsied by that!!Are the DR and SS?

Let us know how it goes BSD.


Pete


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## BSD

KiwiBro said:


> Thanks for the pics and for the initial review. If you get time and are so inclined, would you be able to break down in some detail the mods you did in please?


I removed both linkages that the green button is attached to, there is a bar that moves when you push the button so the push handle can engage. it's a bit hard to describe, but very easy to do with a couple wrenches


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## BSD

here's a quick video of some big cherry.
[video]http://www.facebook.com/v/266489156718112[/video]


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## BSD

well, I've run about a cord and half through it now. after removing the safety button it's quite a nice little production unit. I was splitting cherry and red oak and a little white oak. I timed myself working at a modest pace around 2/3 throttle. this little sucker really sips fuel too. I split and bagged half a cord in 45 minutes by myself. with a helper I suspect I could probably do a cord in about an hour

as for the rust... yea. that surface rust is really something to worry about on a 3" thick cast iron piece...


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## TFPace

*Video*

BSD,

Thanks for the video. By-passing the safety wasn't too big of a task was it?

Tom


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## D&B Mack

Went to TSC this weekend. They got two in, sold the new one. Still have the demo model out. I took a few pieces of oak with me. They had the machine out in the parking lot. Didn't look like it shook too much at all. I was impressed, ate through that oak like nothing. Might be making a new purchase. :msp_wub:


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## cowroy

Iron Mike said:


> I have had a Supersplit since the summer of 2003. Every year it has split 10-12 full ( 128 cu ft ) cords for my boiler, fine split enough wood for 2000 bundles a year and some years we sell a little bulk fireplace wood in the winter. In late August the pinion gear gave up and all the teeth sheard off when my son mis-read a croth piece and the pusher got stuck and could not pop up to release. This can happen on occasion in nasty knotty, crotch or bigger elm pieces, but we do not shy away from splitting anything. Paul at Supersplit sent me the new gear, which was a measly 100 bucks , we visited for a bit, and he also sent along a new clutch for the Subaru engine that I have, just for the heck of it. The repair took less than a half hour. I spent about 2400 bucks on my splitter in '03 and other than two 15 dollar belts and oil changes, this 100 dollar repair is the first one I have had. It is smooth at all speeds and does not wobble. The machine is not babied, and sits outside more than it should. We split nothing but hardwoods. I know that it is tempting to buy a cheap copy, but the best is always the cheapest in the long run. When will we stop the race to the bottom in this country and keep putting the Pauls at Supersplit out of business with our buying decissions....when we all live in grass huts?


 
I totally agree with you, and I try to buy American made every chance I get, but there is a point where one has to ask yourself is there $1000 more dollars worth of product in a SS. Monopoly is the word that comes to mind now that this wood splitter has arose. Personally by the time I got a SS to my house it would be very close to $2750 based off a $100 shipping charge. I really want a SS and will probably end up with one, but just wanted to put a thought out there and hope I wasn't the only one in this boat.


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## sunfish

cowroy said:


> I totally agree with you, and I try to buy American made every chance I get, but there is a point where one has to ask yourself is there $1000 more dollars worth of product in a SS. Monopoly is the word that comes to mind now that this wood splitter has arose. Personally by the time I got a SS to my house it would be very close to $2750 based off a $100 shipping charge. I really want a SS and will probably end up with one, but just wanted to put a thought out there and hope I wasn't the only one in this boat.


 
The $1000 diff could very well be the diff between Made in USA and Made in China...

Actually, I'd expect the Made in China to be about 50% less...


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## cowroy

sunfish said:


> The $1000 diff could very well be the diff between Made in USA and Made in China...
> 
> Actually, I'd expect the Made in China to be about 50% less...


 
I would agree. 

I started heating with wood to save on the electric bill, so with this kind of purchase it will take a few years for it to pay for itself. Not as long if I count my time saved.


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## Forky

BSD said:


> well, I've run about a cord and half through it now. after removing the safety button it's quite a nice little production unit. I was splitting cherry and red oak and a little white oak. I timed myself working at a modest pace around 2/3 throttle. this little sucker really sips fuel too. I split and bagged half a cord in 45 minutes by myself. with a helper I suspect I could probably do a cord in about an hour
> 
> as for the rust... yea. that surface rust is really something to worry about on a 3" thick cast iron piece...


 
BSD- How is the working height on this machine? Being towable, it looks much lower than SS or DR. It looks as if you would be stooped over while working. Also, another video, longer would be awesome if possible!!


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## cowroy

sunfish, I so wish you could come to the gtg and bring your SS so it would put my mind at ease about buying one. I am pretty sure there is no one in east TN that has one. Have you ever been aggravated about having to pick the wood up and sit it on the splitter?


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## D&B Mack

Forky said:


> BSD- How is the working height on this machine? Being towable, it looks much lower than SS or DR. It looks as if you would be stooped over while working. Also, another video, longer would be awesome if possible!!


 
When I ran it at the demo, height seemed ok, maybe come up a few inches. I am 6', but I didn't think it was bad. Definitely not the same as a hydraulic splitter.


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## BSD

Forky said:


> BSD- How is the working height on this machine? Being towable, it looks much lower than SS or DR. It looks as if you would be stooped over while working. Also, another video, longer would be awesome if possible!!


working height is 28". I'm 6' and found it a good height for me, most tools and tables are actually a little low for me too. It was a good height for the big rounds, I didn't find myself straining to reach the work area.

The lever is actually too high and too far away from the working area, especially after removing the safety. I'm going to see if I can get the handle reversed. I found my right elbow was a bit sore yesterday after splitting and I think its because of the angle you push the lever down from the work area.


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## sunfish

cowroy said:


> sunfish, I so wish you could come to the gtg and bring your SS so it would put my mind at ease about buying one. I am pretty sure there is no one in east TN that has one. Have you ever been aggravated about having to pick the wood up and sit it on the splitter?


 
I'll have my SS at the Arkansas gtg next month, but I wont make the TN one. Wish I could.

No aggravation picking up wood. Most that I cut is under 20" dia. Larger stuff gets noodled. :msp_smile:


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## cowroy

sunfish said:


> I'll have my SS at the Arkansas gtg next month, but I wont make the TN one. Wish I could.
> 
> No aggravation picking up wood. Most that I cut is under 20" dia. Larger stuff gets noodled. :msp_smile:


 
Most mine is under 20" too so good deal there. I have about half the money saved so I guess I'll be hand splittin again this year, but I need the exersize:hmm3grin2orange:


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## originalhooker

*Anything to look out for with the new Speedpros?*

I found / bought one of these Speed pros @ a TSC in VA, I'm in NC.
Going this weekend to pick it up as this was the only way for them to hold it for me. 
Are there any "things" I need to look for from those who have seen/bought this model?

I'll carry a few 16" rounds of fresh hickory to test. Will post results next week.


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## dwost

*Just bought one*

Hi all,

I just purchased the TSC splitter today at lunch. I also just joined as I figure I can provide some input when I begin putting this to use this fall. I'm not using this commercially but have a bunch of wood to split for winter. I've been looking for quite some time and was ready to order the 30ton unit from Northern Tool. I was in TSC last weekend and saw these sitting on the lot. After further inspection and seeing they were only $1600 I went ahead and pulled the trigger. FYI, I just received a 10% off coupon yesterday in their flyer. Keep your eyes out as I ended up getting it less $170 discount. I will give it a test run later this week and post back my comments. For the average consumer I think this should provide many years of service. My only gripe is the size. This thing is LONG! I may have to store it on end in my barn to save some space! lol


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## D&B Mack

dwost said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I just purchased the TSC splitter today at lunch. I also just joined as I figure I can provide some input when I begin putting this to use this fall. I'm not using this commercially but have a bunch of wood to split for winter. I've been looking for quite some time and was ready to order the 30ton unit from Northern Tool. I was in TSC last weekend and saw these sitting on the lot. After further inspection and seeing they were only $1600 I went ahead and pulled the trigger. FYI, I just received a 10% off coupon yesterday in their flyer. Keep your eyes out as I ended up getting it less $170 discount. I will give it a test run later this week and post back my comments. For the average consumer I think this should provide many years of service. My only gripe is the size. This thing is LONG! I may have to store it on end in my barn to save some space! lol


 
Welcome, and way to jump in with both feet!!!  :msp_thumbup:  uttahere2:


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## CUCV

sunfish said:


> 3600 should be max rpm for the SS and for most small gas motors.
> 
> My SS is silky smooth running wide open.


 

Yeah that's what I was getting at. There is a good chance the Chinese Honda I have on my SS is the main contributor to any vibration when its running 3600rpm or less:msp_wink:

My father checked out a Speedpro yesterday, mentioned a small flywheel on the motor. Does anyone have pictures of that output shaft are of the motor? If that small flywheel is not balanced well that sure could cause some vibration.


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## BSD

CUCV said:


> My father checked out a Speedpro yesterday, mentioned a small flywheel on the motor. Does anyone have pictures of that output shaft are of the motor? If that small flywheel is not balanced well that sure could cause some vibration.


the motor has a centrifugal clutch on the output shaft with a double pulley. the pulleys run a set of belts to the flywheels. They are cast steel, one of mine has 4 "holes" drilled in it and the other one has only three. I suspect this is how they balance them.


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## D&B Mack

After using and watching the one at the demo. I would say there are two things to watch for:

1. Assembly; TSC doesn't have the best reputation for putting things together well.

2. QC; as with most Chicom items, QC is generally lacking.


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## craddock

Well I guess I'm going to jump on the band wagon and head to TSC Friday. They have two in stock and I have about 14 cords to split. I hope I'm making the right move and it works out.


----------



## dwost

*Some pictures for you*

Ok so I got bored last night and decided to tear into it and do the button bypass mod (using a zip tie) and snap some pics for the masses. While I'm not a professional, I will say that overall this is constructed very well. The welds are strong, albeit a bit sloppy, and they used heavy gauge steel everywhere. It's a very simple machine and should be very easy to maintain for years to come. Obviously longevity is still a question but at this price point it's worth a shot. All in all I think this is a great buy for most people. Here are the pics, sorry they were shot on my phone. Also for some reason the site is turning a couple of them sideways but hope this helps give you an idea of what's inside. 

View attachment 200938


View attachment 200939


View attachment 200940


View attachment 200941


View attachment 200942


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## KiwiBro

Thanks.


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## Hedgerow

Speeco is doing something right with their demo video's... I saw three wood varieties they showed over and over. Hedge, Mulberry, and Locust... Not one piece of oak... But if I ever got one, that button would have to go... 
Just sayin...
:canny:


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## BSD

after doing the button bypass you'll want to turn that handle around too. I have a bit of tennis elbow from splitting the other day, i believe its coming from the angle your arm is at to push the lever down. I'm going to see if I can flip it around on Saturday


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## Hedgerow

BSD said:


> after doing the button bypass you'll want to turn that handle around too. I have a bit of tennis elbow from splitting the other day, i believe its coming from the angle your arm is at to push the lever down. I'm going to see if I can flip it around on Saturday


 
I figured as much... I know the company has to cover their ass from a safety standpoint. I don't blame them, and would do the same... But there's some through-put increases I can see plain as day with a couple minor "modifications"...
:monkey:


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## D&B Mack

Hedgerow said:


> Speeco is doing something right with their demo video's... I saw three wood varieties they showed over and over. Hedge, Mulberry, and Locust... Not one piece of oak... But if I ever got one, that button would have to go...
> Just sayin...
> :canny:


 
I took Oak to the demo, since this is exactly what I thought. It didn't have a problem with them. (Note: They were all pretty straight pieces for the most part) Button and handle placement are a PITA, but it is becoming obvious, this isn't much of a modification issue.


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## Pcoz88

Thanks for pics and tips!!!Keep them coming.

Pete


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## Dalmatian90

Total Serendipity ...

Day off, running errands, working out a project in my mind, left Home Depot and swung into Tractor Supply to look for bolts...

And directly in front of where I park is one of these suckers 

Pros: Height seemed good. My friends SS is one of the low style ones which is probably the only drawback to that unit.

Cons:
1) The log cradle would need to go. It's going to center the logs, and I figure with these you would work some pieces like you do with a splitting ax and work around the outside first. 

2) The lip I mentioned before. Might not be TOTALLY bad, it isn't welded at a 90º so it has some slope so it won't catch logs all the time, but it either shouldn't be there or have a lower slope to let logs slide off more easily.

3) Words are inadequate to describe how poor the controls are. They might have traded lawsuits for cutting your fingers off for lawsuits over repetitive motion injuries  When I "dry fired" it, I found it an inconvenient and awkard way to do things -- you'd leave the log in the cradle, take half a step back, push green button, pull(?) the handle up.

I'd want to a flat "cradle" and to be able to keep my hand on the wood to hold it in position when splitting.

From the other posts here, I could fix #3, but I don't have the tools or enough experience to modify 1 & 2 myself...well I could but it would be ugly.

4) Rust. As one of the other posters mentioned, the rust probably doesn't mean diddly to the functionality or overall lifespan of the unit. But it is one of those fit-n-finish items that gives you a quick judge of the quality of parts that go into a unit. Good quality steel doesn't start rusting immediately, bad rust does. Too brief of time to know if this steel is the rust quickly but then stop quality, or the steel that will rapidly rot away, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt it's the kind that's just good enough it won't rot quickly, just cosmetically rust badly. The bolts that hold the cover below the handle were already rusting and rust colored water stains were draining away from them. (And the bolt heads were sitting in small puddles).

(Side note speaking of quality, was at the Big E on Wednesday and handled a pair of German made Knipex pliers KNIPEX - The Pliers Company. - Products - ([url]http://www.pliers-online.com)[/url] at a vendor...just one feel and you could tell they were made of VERY high quality steel)

(Side side note, didn't get to put my hands on the Timber Wolves @ the Big E...was going to stop on the way out, but made a wrong turn and I wasn't going to have the folks I was with turn around and go back when I realized it.  I even had my Stihl hat on. )


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## Hedgerow

Take that damn Stihl hat off...


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## BSD

Dalmatian90 said:


> Cons:
> 1) The log cradle would need to go. It's going to center the logs, and I figure with these you would work some pieces like you do with a splitting ax and work around the outside first.
> 
> 2) The lip I mentioned before. Might not be TOTALLY bad, it isn't welded at a 90º so it has some slope so it won't catch logs all the time, but it either shouldn't be there or have a lower slope to let logs slide off more easily.
> 
> 3) Words are inadequate to describe how poor the controls are. They might have traded lawsuits for cutting your fingers off for lawsuits over repetitive motion injuries  When I "dry fired" it, I found it an inconvenient and awkard way to do things -- you'd leave the log in the cradle, take half a step back, push green button, pull(?) the handle up.
> 
> I'd want to a flat "cradle" and to be able to keep my hand on the wood to hold it in position when splitting.
> 
> From the other posts here, I could fix #3, but I don't have the tools or enough experience to modify 1 & 2 myself...well I could but it would be ugly.
> 
> 4) Rust. As one of the other posters mentioned, the rust probably doesn't mean diddly to the functionality or overall lifespan of the unit. But it is one of those fit-n-finish items that gives you a quick judge of the quality of parts that go into a unit. Good quality steel doesn't start rusting immediately, bad rust does. Too brief of time to know if this steel is the rust quickly but then stop quality, or the steel that will rapidly rot away, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt it's the kind that's just good enough it won't rot quickly, just cosmetically rust badly. The bolts that hold the cover below the handle were already rusting and rust colored water stains were draining away from them. (And the bolt heads were sitting in small puddles).


 1) the cradle is a non-issue, I guess an extension of the table would be a little better, but the cradle is so wide you can put a piece of wood (even a whole round) pretty much anywhere. I've split stuff up to about 22" diameter and the cradle doesn't interfere. when I bring peices back to resplit I tend to flip them back into the cradle versus drag them and it works ok. I may end up making a table extension that will bolt in place of cradle on the operator side. but so far, I can deal with it.

2) the machine is more than capable enough to drive the logs off the table over the lip, again, non-issue. the fact that its over the tongue is a bigger issue. I end up swatting them to the side off the table so you can swing the tongue and split for a while before you have to move the machine or pile . Or i just toss it in one of my pallet bags as i'm working.

as you said, 3) is no big deal. you hit the nail on the head, they did it to cover their asses. its a 5 minute fix with a ziptie or 15 minute fix to make it permanently removed.


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## Dozer Man

*Got mine yesterday.......*

Howdy, I'm new to the site. I've been keeping an eye on this thread and just wanted to give my $.02 worth. I picked up a SpeedPro yesterday at 5pm. Back at shop with hood off it at 5:30. Safety button completely removed at 5:40. Pull a cotter pin...remove a nut and bolt... and unhook one spring......that's it...button removed. Absolutely no vibration issues at all. Looks very solid...especially compared to some of the vert./horiz. models i've been looking at [of which most vibrate more the the speedpro]. Definately studying a fab for making an extension for the table so as to remove/replace the original log cradle. Also looking to reverse the handle too...neither job looks that hard [handle job first for ergo reasons]. For the $1000+ saved I will not complain at all. I've only split 8 or 10 rounds so far but plan to do more tomorrow. 24" white oak barely even pulled the motor...which was only at half throttle!!! I'm very impressed so far but will know more after I've split a load or 2. Time will tell.....

Great site...Great thread...


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## TreePointer

Welcome, Dozer Man! Thanks for the report.


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## BSD

Dozer Man, when you try to reverse the handle the angle of the shaft is very important. Yesterday I modified mine and didn't take this into consideration. I didn't realize at the time but that is how it releases if there is a hard strike that stops the ram. The shaft has to be foreward towards the splitter edge for it to work properly. Right now, mine is at the rear and doesn't work properly. I'm hoping to be able to work on it later today but I have a golf tournament the wife signed us up for...


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## ziggy2b

*split-fire with log lift*

I believe the split-fire would leave this speedco in the dust in the demo tape:msp_ohmy:


----------



## Iron Mike

Dozer Man said:


> Howdy, I'm new to the site. I've been keeping an eye on this thread and just wanted to give my $.02 worth. I picked up a SpeedPro yesterday at 5pm. Back at shop with hood off it at 5:30. Safety button completely removed at 5:40. Pull a cotter pin...remove a nut and bolt... and unhook one spring......that's it...button removed. Absolutely no vibration issues at all. Looks very solid...especially compared to some of the vert./horiz. models i've been looking at [of which most vibrate more the the speedpro]. Definately studying a fab for making an extension for the table so as to remove/replace the original log cradle. Also looking to reverse the handle too...neither job looks that hard [handle job first for ergo reasons]. For the $1000+ saved I will not complain at all. I've only split 8 or 10 rounds so far but plan to do more tomorrow. 24" white oak barely even pulled the motor...which was only at half throttle!!! I'm very impressed so far but will know more after I've split a load or 2. Time will tell.....
> 
> Great site...Great thread...


 
I am sure you will be very pleased with your purchase in the long run as it is a great design/approach to splitting wood. Saving 1000 bucks is nothing to sneeze at thats for sure. I can't help wondering though....In our race to the bottom of world standards how long untill 1700 bucks is mostly unaffordable because there are simply less and less jobs for the kind of people that are generally the type that want to split their own wood. I am not singleing you out, I don't have a solution and I am guilty of buying cheap myself. This thread has really underscored the dilema to me.


----------



## Dozer Man

*Race to the bottom.......*



Iron Mike said:


> I am sure you will be very pleased with your purchase in the long run as it is a great design/approach to splitting wood. Saving 1000 bucks is nothing to sneeze at thats for sure. I can't help wondering though....In our race to the bottom of world standards how long untill 1700 bucks is mostly unaffordable because there are simply less and less jobs for the kind of people that are generally the type that want to split their own wood. I am not singleing you out, I don't have a solution and I am guilty of buying cheap myself. This thread has really underscored the dilema to me.


 


Iron Mike, I understand exactly what you are saying...I don't want to talk politics...it raises my blood pressure. But... I definitely do agree with you. I looked at all options for buying a new splitter locally. Trying to do my part, actually, for local retailers [and for warranty issues and replacement parts]. While researching, I was surprised to find that most splitters themselves are assembled in the USA, but many of there parts are made overseas. I'm not saying all brands, just the ones that are available locally for myself. Speeco/huskee, and MTD based machines, are whats available locally [bigR now sells speeco] so my decision was based on the best of these products for me, and..... I've been wanting a kinetic splitter. I am judging myself...but its not just that I saved a grand, its that I got a kinetic splitter for the same price as i nice vert/horiz hydro splitter. That's where I based my decision....good or bad...


----------



## Iron Mike

Dozer Man said:


> Iron Mike, I understand exactly what you are saying...I don't want to talk politics...it raises my blood pressure. But... I definitely do agree with you. I looked at all options for buying a new splitter locally. Trying to do my part, actually, for local retailers [and for warranty issues and replacement parts]. While researching, I was surprised to find that most splitters themselves are assembled in the USA, but many of there parts are made overseas. I'm not saying all brands, just the ones that are available locally for myself. Speeco/huskee, and MTD based machines, are whats available locally [bigR now sells speeco] so my decision was based on the best of these products for me, and..... I've been wanting a kinetic splitter. I am judging myself...but its not just that I saved a grand, its that I got a kinetic splitter for the same price as i nice vert/horiz hydro splitter. That's where I based my decision....good or bad...


 
Yes...there is a political forum here where we regularly punch the tar out of these type subjects. I am not commenting on the political nature of the dilema here as I think it surpasses that. I hope you enjoy using your new splitter. :msp_thumbsup:


----------



## dwost

*Update*

I split a face cord yesterday with my new splitter. Overall I'm very pleased with the results. I will post my pro/con list in a bit but I know there was some question about vibration. I can say this didn't vibrate much at all. What I will say, however, is I think what people are referring to is the weak jack stand that is used. This is what causes the wobble. I can see when using it how it will wiggle as it doesn't really provide a stable leg for the front end. I remiedied this by leaving it hooked to the ball on my Gator 6x4. This also worked great because as I split, I simply threw the logs into the bed. Big time saver. With it hitched up there was virtually zero movement from the splitter. Only minor vibration from the motor and flywheels which didn't look out of the norm. Here is the list:

Pro:

-Very fast splitting of all types of wood. Put some really knotty red oak in it and it went through it without issue AND I was only at half throttle.
-Easily handles very large circumference logs without issue.
-With the button mod it does make it much easier to operate
-Table is big enough to allow the logs to stay put with only a few falling off. Made for very efficient repeat splits
-Motor is very quite
-very stable when hooked up to a hitch
-Easy to maneuver for storage or hook up.


Con:

-Handle should be moved to the front. Working on modding it next
-front leg is not overly stable
-Logs that have angled cuts do jump off the table. This can be a bit of a hazard so watch out.
-Sometimes the ram when fully extended and then recoiling would cause the handle to pup up which caused some shock to my arm. Not sure why it did this but I'll keep an eye on it. Only happened a couple times. 


All in all I think this is a great buy. Only time will tell on longevity but so far I'm very pleased with my purchase.


----------



## litefoot

dwost said:


> I split a face cord yesterday with my new splitter. Overall I'm very pleased with the results. I will post my pro/con list in a bit but I know there was some question about vibration. I can say this didn't vibrate much at all. What I will say, however, is I think what people are referring to is the weak jack stand that is used. This is what causes the wobble. I can see when using it how it will wiggle as it doesn't really provide a stable leg for the front end. I remiedied this by leaving it hooked to the ball on my Gator 6x4. This also worked great because as I split, I simply threw the logs into the bed. Big time saver. With it hitched up there was virtually zero movement from the splitter. Only minor vibration from the motor and flywheels which didn't look out of the norm. Here is the list:
> 
> Pro:
> 
> -Very fast splitting of all types of wood. Put some really knotty red oak in it and it went through it without issue AND I was only at half throttle.
> -Easily handles very large circumference logs without issue.
> -With the button mod it does make it much easier to operate
> -Table is big enough to allow the logs to stay put with only a few falling off. Made for very efficient repeat splits
> -Motor is very quite
> -very stable when hooked up to a hitch
> -Easy to maneuver for storage or hook up.
> 
> 
> Con:
> 
> -Handle should be moved to the front. Working on modding it next
> -front leg is not overly stable
> -Logs that have angled cuts do jump off the table. This can be a bit of a hazard so watch out.
> -Sometimes the ram when fully extended and then recoiling would cause the handle to pup up which caused some shock to my arm. Not sure why it did this but I'll keep an eye on it. Only happened a couple times.
> 
> 
> All in all I think this is a great buy. Only time will tell on longevity but so far I'm very pleased with my purchase.


 
Nice write up. Thank you very much!


----------



## KiwiBro

Thanks.

So the log cradle never gets in the way when sliding big rounds back to be re-split?

If you were splitting the edges off a big round - like taking small bites off the edge of a cookie, how big a round could you get between the cradle and the wedge without the cradle getting in the way? I'm thinking it may not be a big issue because rounds too big will be noodled most of the time anyway for ease of lifting, but knowing the clearance bwteen cradle edge and wedge could be helpful.

Could an owner please post pics of the rack head and the bearings and cradle (for lack of a better word) that keep it held to the I/H beam? Tks.






dwost said:


> I split a face cord yesterday with my new splitter. Overall I'm very pleased with the results. I will post my pro/con list in a bit but I know there was some question about vibration. I can say this didn't vibrate much at all. What I will say, however, is I think what people are referring to is the weak jack stand that is used. This is what causes the wobble. I can see when using it how it will wiggle as it doesn't really provide a stable leg for the front end. I remiedied this by leaving it hooked to the ball on my Gator 6x4. This also worked great because as I split, I simply threw the logs into the bed. Big time saver. With it hitched up there was virtually zero movement from the splitter. Only minor vibration from the motor and flywheels which didn't look out of the norm. Here is the list:
> 
> Pro:
> 
> -Very fast splitting of all types of wood. Put some really knotty red oak in it and it went through it without issue AND I was only at half throttle.
> -Easily handles very large circumference logs without issue.
> -With the button mod it does make it much easier to operate
> -Table is big enough to allow the logs to stay put with only a few falling off. Made for very efficient repeat splits
> -Motor is very quite
> -very stable when hooked up to a hitch
> -Easy to maneuver for storage or hook up.
> 
> 
> Con:
> 
> -Handle should be moved to the front. Working on modding it next
> -front leg is not overly stable
> -Logs that have angled cuts do jump off the table. This can be a bit of a hazard so watch out.
> -Sometimes the ram when fully extended and then recoiling would cause the handle to pup up which caused some shock to my arm. Not sure why it did this but I'll keep an eye on it. Only happened a couple times.
> 
> 
> All in all I think this is a great buy. Only time will tell on longevity but so far I'm very pleased with my purchase.


----------



## Dozer Man

*Handle reversed....*

Got the handle reversed today. Once you unbolt and unpin the handle, turn it around and line it up. Thanks for the heads up BSD. I made sure to keep the shaft centered and to check its movement before welding bracket together. The process really kinda fell together easier than I thought. As you can see from the pics [hopefully] the biggest problem is that your bracket is going to have to overhang the back of the sheet metal slightly. Make sure to remove and look under the sheet metal so you know where NOT to drill holes. Anyways... the only thing I've permanently changed from stock is the 2 holes I drilled in the sheet metal. Everything else goes back to stock quick and easy. Don't do this unless you are 100% comfortable with it. After watching the SS and DR videos, I had no problem doing it for ergonomic purposes [old wrist injury].... it's your call.

Now for the big question..... How does it work???

Worked Excellent!!! Considering I've only run a few rounds before modifications. Pushing down the handle in front is a lot easier than from the back. It took a total of 1 round to get used to it this way. Just pop down with palm of hand. Clearance won't let you get fingers under handle this way, not an issue for me. With some help from my wife, we split and loaded a pickup load of mixed oak in less than 20 min. Not bad for first time out.

Table will have to wait till at least next weekend. The log cradle wasn't as bad as I thought it would be...I got used to it. It's not hard to get the log positioned for splits. 

And again...no vibration issues. The splitter does move around a little, but absolutely no more [if not less] than any vert./horiz. splitter I've used, in either position. 

So far I'm very pleased...Best splitter in my budget...time will tell for sure.

View attachment 201426

View attachment 201427

View attachment 201428

View attachment 201429


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## KiwiBro




----------



## BSD

Cool, I was going to mount mine up in that fashion too but the handle crushing my knuckles was a concern. I think i've got a better answer, which makes the handle the most ergonomic to use. My solution required permanent modification though; where as yours can go back to stock which is a plus for many people. as soon as I work the kinks out I'll post up some pictures.


----------



## craddock

Well I might catch some slack here but I for one went and demoed the speed pro at TSC and it didn't work out as well as I wanted it to. First it did split some of the wood that I took up there but when I got into some knotty beech it stopped it. When it got stuck we had to pry the ram back with crowbars. After this the guy running it tried to hit it several more times and it just couldn't do it. I tried couple of other pieces and it split them. Then again more beech with some knots and it was a no go so I ended up with the 35 ton husky and a four way wedge. I can see where if you had mostly good to decent wood that it would save a lot of time but I for one have a woods full of beech and feel that at this time I would be better off with the husky.


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## CampHamp

I was the guy who saw the wobbly demo of the SpeedPro at my local TSC. I went back to see the 2nd machine they put together and it was in better balance but still had some shake to it. The shaking is clearly from poor balancing as it is more significant than a motor would produce and is much worse at lower rotations (think rinse-cycle). They had the original machine working the front of the store as a demo unit with actual logs now. The kid started it up the super shaker, cut a few wimpy rounds then put a big round up and it wouldn't go through (!?) even after three repeats.

The problem was that the bar that runs down from the handle to engage the pinion was bent (I stayed while he took it out). So even though he could still engage it, the bend left the mechanism too sensitive (it's designed to "pop" out of gear when their is high pressure) so the thing was popping out of gear with very little resistance.

The question is, does this bend indicate a design flaw or misuse? I could see if someone tried to hold down the handle through the split, then the operator would be pushing down when the thing needs to release.

I noticed on the inside of the flywheels (when it was opened up) that there were a series of drill holes (all on one side), so it seems that balance correction is part of the manufacturing process. However, the job on this unit was obviously done poorly. Perhaps they'll get better with practice...

The DR units are shipping now. Anyone seen one?

I also found that LogRite has a kinetic model that has a couple nice features. I like the rope winch idea and how the splitter handle comes down low.
firewoodinator from LogRite - YouTube

Too much machine for my needs, but you pros might be interested.


----------



## Dozer Man

craddock said:


> Well I might catch some slack here but I for one went and demoed the speed pro at TSC and it didn't work out as well as I wanted it to. First it did split some of the wood that I took up there but when I got into some knotty beech it stopped it. When it got stuck we had to pry the ram back with crowbars. After this the guy running it tried to hit it several more times and it just couldn't do it. I tried couple of other pieces and it split them. Then again more beech with some knots and it was a no go so I ended up with the 35 ton husky and a four way wedge. I can see where if you had mostly good to decent wood that it would save a lot of time but I for one have a woods full of beech and feel that at this time I would be better off with the husky.


 


Wow...glad I didn't save any knotty beech!!! I've run some pretty knotted oak through mine and so far have only had to hit 1 round more than once...using 2/3 throttle. 

Although I do have a pretty good backup splitter for the big or knotted stuff...my dad and I built a splitter 30+ yrs ago...but I have to have a dozer hooked to it to provide hydraulics. It has split a lot of wood over the years. We'll keep it around for the big stuff...30 yrs and I haven't seen anything that it won't tackle. It's alright when you have helpers but a PITA by yourself. Plus, dozers make more $$$ when they are on the job...knockin down trees!!!


----------



## Dozer Man

BSD said:


> Cool, I was going to mount mine up in that fashion too but the handle crushing my knuckles was a concern. I think i've got a better answer, which makes the handle the most ergonomic to use. My solution required permanent modification though; where as yours can go back to stock which is a plus for many people. as soon as I work the kinks out I'll post up some pictures.


 

Good deal...I'm looking forward to seeing what you've done. 

I'm thinkin of just building a new handle all together with a slight bend in it. Probly not for a while though...the way I have it now works pretty good...100% better than the way it was. I just push down on the handle open handed, which is the way I found myself hitting it when the handle was at the back. 

I'm definately curious to what you've done with yours!!! Table to replace log cradle is next...ideas anyone???


----------



## BSD

well, my original plan was to mount the stock handle at a 35 degree angle so it was more ergonomic to use. I modified my handle, welded on a bracket and then discovered the pin alignment was a problem. I un-welded the bracket, ground it smooth and went back to a reversed stock alignment. however I flipped the handle so it was closer to the work zone, I drilled out the otherside of the handle so the pin would fit and was about to call it a day. Then it dawned on me that the handle is made from 3/4" square tubing. I had some 1" square tubing that slipped right over the top of it, so I got the welder out again and came up with a more ergonomic solution. I think this will provide the most useful position to be in for extended times. I think where dozerman has his will lead to shoulder and elbow fatigue in a relatively short time. My handle is now at the perfect height for me where I don't have to shrug my shoulder to reach any more. keeping the handle closer to directly under your armpit should keep wear and tear on the body down the most too. The only question is how the handle, pin and bracket hold up for long-term use. 

Anyways, on to the most important part. Pics and Vid.
View attachment 201507

View attachment 201508

View attachment 201509


[video=facebook;270440906322937]http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=270440906322937[/video]


----------



## Dozer Man

Ok......I guess I'm building a new handle!!! 

Excellent idea! I might have to beef up my bracket a little[time will tell], but I'm going to the scrap metal pile in the morning lookin for some small box tubing. Handle looks like a good place for good simple leverage. My idea is still better than stock....but yours is better for sure.....great job!

I'm sure some people are looking at us like we are nuts to modify a brand new splitter. This splitter works excellent as it is. If you are thinking of buying one, don't let the fact that we are tinkering with it deter you. Even if you set the log in the cradle, push in on the green button and push down on the handle simultaniously with both hands.....it's still hands down faster than hydraulic. No question about it for me. These are VERY MINOR modifications. If I had the SuperSplit or the DR RapidFire, I'm sure I would be tinkering with them. First thing with either/both would be to make it towable. Not just for highway use, but just to hook it to the truck to pull it to and from the shop [it's 200 yards to my log storage area...up hill]. I won't leave it outside, it would probly walk away.

BSD...keep up the good work. I'm curious to your ideas on the log cradle. It actually worked better than I expected but I do have 2 pieces of 1/8 inch sheet metal that are already set aside for the next rainy day....I better find some box tubing too!!! 

Thank you BSD for the write-up, video, and pics.


----------



## BSD

i modify almost everything to suit my needs better. Last year I bought a dump insert for my truck and the first thing I did was cut the front off to shorten it 6" to fit around my headache rack on my truck.

As for the cradle. I might leave it alone for now,but I was thinking of making a bolt-on replacement for the work zone side similar to the tables on the SS' and DR models. I think they've got something going there, just not sure if its all that helpful. I'm going to try to be more mindful next time i split a load to see how many pieces I have to pick up and put in the cradle versus just flipping them back. If it seems like a lot then a table mod might be in store.

The other mod I was thinking about doing is adding a hook on the back of the unit, just in case I bury the tongue, hook a chain to the backside and drag it out with the tractor, truck, goat.


----------



## cjnspecial

Can you interrupt the cycle on these like on a SS? How long is that bronze wear plate supposed to last before it needs to be replaced and how much is it?


----------



## dwost

Great ideas boys. BSD, that is the design I was thinking of as well. I agree not having to lift your shoulder and press should help with fatigue. I may work on this over the next couple of days if I get some time. As for tinkering with new gear that is the only way to truely make it yours!  when in doubt, mod it. That's how I roll. :msp_thumbup:


----------



## BSD

cjnspecial said:


> Can you interrupt the cycle on these like on a SS? How long is that bronze wear plate supposed to last before it needs to be replaced and how much is it?


you can pull up on the handle and it will kill the cycle.

no idea on cost for the wear plate. it can't be much though, its a pretty simple looking piece in there.


----------



## BSD

ok, So i got to try it out this morning. I filmed myself in HD for you guys. LOL. I added a tiny-tach recently too, These runs were with the machine @ ~2700rpm. After I watched the video I think I might make a table mod to bolt on in place of the work zone side cradle. I was handling a lot of the pieces with two hands (which means twisting your back or moving)

first video is 4:45 of raw video, I didn't edit anything just right from the camera. afterwords I stacked it up, and I had a pile 33"w, 33" long and 17" average depth. so I split 10.7Cu Ft of wood in less than 5 minutes. 12% of a cord. I also realized as I was stacking it that I split a lot of it down to like 3x3" size, which I normally don't do. I guess I was showing off for the camera. my previous times before handle mods was half a cord in 45 minutes. Looks like my handle mods improved my efficiency by 50%

the second is a shorter clip running another round through with the camera suction cupped to the housing right next to the handle. I did this to try to show how relatively little shake there is with this unit. The camera does pick up some interference from the motor which shows up as left-to-right waves in the picture. 

[video=facebook;270623426304685]http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=270623426304685[/video]

[video=facebook;270643606302667]http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=270643606302667[/video]


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## dwost

Great vid BSD, that really showcases the speed of this unit. I will be fabbing up a handle similar in design to what you have done. It looks much more ergonomic for extended splitting sessions!


----------



## RichL

*Video?*

Are the video files attached to post?


----------



## BSD

RichL said:


> Are the video files attached to post?


 
they are linked, they're posted on FB but they're public so even if you're not a user you should be able to see them.


----------



## Dalmatian90

Thanks for the vids!


----------



## RichL

*Videos*

I must be blocked here at the office from accessing the vids.


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## beerman6

sweet mod job and vids...

In the 2nd video at @ 26 seconds in :msp_ohmy: cup check!


----------



## D&B Mack

RichL said:


> I must be blocked here at the office from accessing the vids.


 
That's the indirect method of your boss telling you to get back to work.  But, yes this could be the issue, or if you are on a server, the firewall may not allow it.


----------



## BSD

beerman6 said:


> sweet mod job and vids...
> 
> In the 2nd video at @ 26 seconds in :msp_ohmy: cup check!


 
yea, thankfully it was hanging to the right then 

a few have shot off the splitter like that so far. My hydraulic unit has also done similar maneuvers too, one of my guys almost went to the hospital with a nut shot off the hydro machine over the summer. he was seeing stars and making up all sorts of pretty words for about a half hour.


----------



## Dozer Man

*Nice job BSD*

Great vids BSD. I looked in my scrap pile and found no box tubing...dangit. Guess I'll have to go to town and buy some. No biggie...

Just reversing the handle is definately better than stock...but your vids show how moving the handle completely is going to be a lot less stressful after a complete day of splitting. The handle being lower gives you a lot more leverage.

After watching your vids, I can see that the log cradle isn't as bad as I was thinking. Your vids gave an outside perspective for me. It's easy to get into a rhythm with the cradle. I do have the steel for making a table, I just need more operating time to figure out how I will tackle the job. I'm thinking of making a folding extension to the operating side of the excisting table though. It would give someplace to store split halves while ripping the other half of a log....although just keeping a round handy to set halves on works pretty good too.

After seeing your idea with the handle...I can't wait to see what you have in mind for a mod of the cradle/table!!!
Or just do what my old man says...quit messin with it and get to work!! I can't help it, gotta tinker with it!!​


----------



## TFPace

*My handle mod*

Here's a few pictures of my handle modification.

I can say w/o question that the factory handle needs major improvements. I understand product liability and safety but it the ergonomics of this splitter handle are poor....period.

Anyway, I have a tubing bender in my shop set up to 1" square tube so this is what was used. I recycled the .75" tube and rubber handle. I disabled the safety linkage via two cable ties.


Thanks to BDS and the other folk for all of your input.

Tom


----------



## dwost

TFPace said:


> Here's a few pictures of my handle modification.
> 
> I can say w/o question that the factory handle needs major improvements. I understand product liability and safety but it the ergonomics of this splitter handle are poor....period.
> 
> Anyway, I have a tubing bender in my shop set up to 1" square tube so this is what was used. I recycled the .75" tube and rubber handle. I disabled the safety linkage via two cable ties.
> 
> 
> Thanks to BDS and the other folk for all of your input.
> 
> Tom


 

DAMN! TFPace, that looks beautiful! You should send that design to their R&D team, that is EXACTLY how they should have built it from the factory. OK, you guys are inspiration. Gonna give this a try. Can you post up your materials list? Thanks again guys for the great pics.

Don


----------



## TreePointer

dwost said:


> DAMN! TFPace, that looks beautiful! You should send that design to their R&D team, *that is EXACTLY how they should have built it from the factory*. OK, you guys are inspiration. Gonna give this a try. Can you post up your materials list? Thanks again guys for the great pics.
> 
> Don



I don't think you'll ever see that handle design from a factory. Although it's convenient for the operator, it extends way too far out from the machine, which means it's a safety hazard. The thinking is that if it can easily be triggered by accident (say, bump it with your hip or elbow when turning for a log) and not by a more deliberate action, then it's a safety hazard (read liability). 

(Please note that it's not my intention to criticize those who like to modify their equipment. I'm addressing why the designers do what they do.)


----------



## dwost

TreePointer said:


> I don't think you'll ever see that handle design from a factory. Although it's convenient for the operator, it extends way too far out from the machine, which means it's a safety hazard. The thinking is that if it can easily be triggered by accident (say, bump it with your hip or elbow when turning for a log) and not by a more deliberate action, then it's a safety hazard (read liability).
> 
> (Please note that it's not my intention to criticize those who like to modify their equipment. I'm addressing why the designers do what they do.)


 
True, but one can dream! lol


----------



## CampHamp

TreePointer said:


> I don't think you'll ever see that handle design from a factory.



LogRite makes a ergonomic handle very much like this one on their kenetic rig.


----------



## CampHamp

I went back to my local TSC to see if the 2nd SpeedPro machine they built wobbled as badly as the first I saw. It was much better. I was ready to take it. I really want a kenetic splitter that I can tow. But then... The salesman said they had the original machine setup in front with logs for demoing, so I asked to check it out (I only saw it split boards on my first visit).

He went through some small pieces no problem and then tried a larger round (no knots). It didn't make it through...:msp_confused: retry... retry... and again - nope :censored:. It obviously wasn't giving it a full kick and so he shut it off and opened up the flywheel cover. What he found was that the rod that attaches to the handle to engage the ram was bent a little bit and had shortened its length by about 1/4". This made the system more sensitive to log resistance so it was now disengaging earlier than designed.

I guess it bent either from pushing down too hard, by holding down the handle (not letting it release at the end of a split) or maybe this part is just not as sturdy as it needs to be for long-term use. Whatever the reason, it made me hesitate and hold off on the purchase. I noticed on the SS, that the engagement rod is pulled up, so this part probably would not bend. The DR machine has a lever system with a couple hinges - I'm not sure how well that design will fair.

It was interesting to see "under the hood". One thing I noticed was that the wheels had drill holes on one side, so an attempt was made to balance the wheel in the factory. As I mentioned earlier, this unit was very poorly balanced, so hopefully they are getting better at this procedure with practice.


----------



## TFPace

*My handle mod... continued*

I have played around with the handle and determined that there were several changes that needed to be made.

The hinge point needs to re-enforced equal to the way Speeco designed theirs...actually stronger in that this handle style exerts a side load that the OE doesn't create.

I also increased the engaging rod by +\- 2". This let my handle remain clear of the cabinet and still provides proper engagement with the rack & pinion. Notice that I shortened the handle by several inches.

The handle needs to remain as close to the cabinet as possible IMO. Keeping the handle as close reduces the side loading/leverage and reduces strain on the hinge point.

There's been some mention of balance issues. I haven't read the owners manual, but I can't imagine running this machine @ full throttle. My machine seems to operate fine.

Material used to make the handle:

1" square x 14 ga. tube 
.375" round CR to make the engagement rod

It's fixing to get put to the test.

View attachment 201771
View attachment 201772
View attachment 201773
View attachment 201774


----------



## BSD

nice job TFPAce, I was also going to bend some steel but went with just angled cuts to try to keep as close to the body of the machine as possible. I also beveled the angle tube for my handle so its at a natural angle for your wrist you could do that to yours to still too. I've split about 3/4 of a cord with my new setup and so far no issues. I've still got another cord or so to split then i start bringing in big quantities of logs for next year to process and that will be the true test.


----------



## TreePointer

CampHamp said:


> LogRite makes a ergonomic handle very much like this one on their kenetic rig.


 
Interesting. I just looked up the Logrite splitter, and I see that handle. I wouldn't have expected it. One thing I also noticed is that logs are fed from across the splitting beam so the operator doesn't have to turn to get new rounds to split. Of course, the operator can get rounds from wherever he wishes.

SpeeCo certainly made their version a very deliberate action with their two-handed ram activation (one on the green button and the other pulling the lever).


----------



## KiwiBro

Thanks.
























TFPace said:


> I have played around with the handle and determined that there were several changes that needed to be made.
> 
> The hinge point needs to re-enforced equal to the way Speeco designed theirs...actually stronger in that this handle style exerts a side load that the OE doesn't create.
> 
> I also increased the engaging rod by +\- 2". This let my handle remain clear of the cabinet and still provides proper engagement with the rack & pinion. Notice that I shortened the handle by several inches.
> 
> The handle needs to remain as close to the cabinet as possible IMO. Keeping the handle as close reduces the side loading/leverage and reduces strain on the hinge point.
> 
> There's been some mention of balance issues. I haven't read the owners manual, but I can't imagine running this machine @ full throttle. My machine seems to operate fine.
> 
> Material used to make the handle:
> 
> 1" square x 14 ga. tube
> .375" round CR to make the engagement rod
> 
> It's fixing to get put to the test.
> 
> View attachment 201771
> View attachment 201772
> View attachment 201773
> View attachment 201774


----------



## TFPace

BSD said:


> nice job TFPAce, I was also going to bend some steel but went with just angled cuts to try to keep as close to the body of the machine as possible. I also beveled the angle tube for my handle so its at a natural angle for your wrist you could do that to yours to still too. I've split about 3/4 of a cord with my new setup and so far no issues. I've still got another cord or so to split then i start bringing in big quantities of logs for next year to process and that will be the true test.



My 1" square die has CLR of 5" and I still had to cheat with my 90's. 

I like how you have your handle positioned for a more natural feel.


----------



## BSD

I just noticed how high your pivot point is, and you mentioned you extended the rod 2" already too. I made my pivot point as low as possible. this keeps the off-axis forces to a minimum. i think by kicking yours up like that you're leveraging the off-axis force and getting more flex.


----------



## TFPace

*Hinge pivot point*

BSD,

The reasoning behind was design was due impart to my handle. Notice where I have taken to 90's and connected them. Had I extending the distance between the nineties an inch or two I would have eliminated the need to raise the engagement rod. IOW's my handle was hitting the cabinet and not allowing optimum gear contact with the rack and pinion. I just made up a new rod so when I have some free time I can bend up a new handle with a wider distance between my 90's and go back to the original rod. My pivot point has a 2" CL IIRC. 

All of these improvements were made on the fly so-to-speak. Maybe two hours worth of shop time max. It would have made way more sense to sit down design it on paper. I didn't, but we've got a much better operating splitter to show for.

Tom


----------



## BSD

OK, got the camera out again to show the capability of these splitters. double stem red oak crotch, ~15" diameter and 8-10" stems. The piece was cut to 18" length.

I will NOT be splitting any more pieces like this again. its just flat out dangerous. They will go on the hydro splitter next time. you have far more time to react to a bad split attempt there. the amount of force that is transferred from the flywheels if you have a dead-stop are just way too dangerous. I only filmed this to show what they will do. This piece of red oak was really nasty inside. I actually was going to give up on it because I was afraid for my safety, hence the pause in the middle of the video, but I figured some of the doubters need to see what they will really do.

[video=facebook;272170812816613]http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=272170812816613[/video]


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## mooseracing

BSD said:


> Obut I figured some of the doubters need to see what they will really do.


 
Definitely good to see, it's what no one has shown yet. Most of us home owners aren't going to have 2 splitters, but I can borrow a hydraulic one or split the crotchety stuff down enough to fit in the stove and not worry about it.

I've done the same thing on the hydraulic though, you get enough force trying to split a knotted piece and the next day you have a very large black and blu mark on your leg.


----------



## Dozer Man

*Cool Video...BSD*

You don't see SS or DR putting big red oak crotch pieces through there splitters in any of there videos, now that you mention it.....now we see why.
On the other hand, those are the "crotch shot" pieces in a vert/hydro splitter too. But yes, that looks dangerous. Obviously careful log position is a must, either way. But like you said, reaction time is a big plus...


----------



## cjnspecial

I imagine beating the heck out of a piece of wood like that is really tough on the rack and pinion. Excellent video, thanks for posting it.


----------



## buildmyown

I split pieces like that all the time on the SS. I normally set them on the beam with the Y part of the log facing the wedge so that the Y is vertical. Kinda like this wdge would be here >- Now hit it, it might take more then one shot to get through that portion of the Y now flip it over and do the same to the other part of the Y. Now that its split in half you can read the grain better and work those two half down to the size you want. Something else seams odd Ive never had a piece bounce off the wedge like yours did they always get stuck into the wedge maybe only a few inches but still never bounce off. Also on odd shaped pieces ill use my free hand to help hold them in place. Also could those return springs be any stronger on that.


----------



## Dozer Man

*Buildmyown...*



buildmyown said:


> I split pieces like that all the time on the SS. I normally set them on the beam with the Y part of the log facing the wedge so that the Y is vertical. Kinda like this wdge would be here >- Now hit it, it might take more then one shot to get through that portion of the Y now flip it over and do the same to the other part of the Y. Now that its split in half you can read the grain better and work those two half down to the size you want. Something else seams odd Ive never had a piece bounce off the wedge like yours did they always get stuck into the wedge maybe only a few inches but still never bounce off. Also on odd shaped pieces ill use my free hand to help hold them in place. Also could those return springs be any stronger on that.


 
I agree...after watching BSD's video a couple more times...it seems as though the splitter is disengaging a little premature sometimes. Mine does't release hardly ever...it either drives through or drives until it stalls...at which it rarely if ever kicks out and returns...most often it stalls until I release it. Then hit it again. Rarely have hit more than once though. That's the way it's been since new. Then again, I might not have run into the right piece yet either. I've run some pretty knotted 24"+ white and red oak though. I'll find a big crotch piece tomorrow and see what happens.

And no, I don't think the return springs can be any stronger...mine seems to return really hard, IMHO anyways. The ram actually seems to bounce off the stops. I'm curious if the SS returns that hard.


----------



## buildmyown

Dozer Man said:


> I agree...after watching BSD's video a couple more times...it seems as though the splitter is disengaging a little premature sometimes. Mine does't release hardly ever...it either drives through or drives until it stalls...at which it rarely if ever kicks out and returns...most often it stalls until I release it. Then hit it again. Rarely have hit more than once though. That's the way it's been since new. Then again, I might not have run into the right piece yet either. I've run some pretty knotted 24"+ white and red oak though. I'll find a big crotch piece tomorrow and see what happens.
> 
> *And no, I don't think the return springs can be any stronger...mine seems to return really hard, IMHO anyways. The ram actually seems to bounce off the stops. I'm curious if the SS returns that hard.[/*QUOTE]
> 
> Thats what i ment sorry and i wouldnt know about the stock SS spring mine was missing its and old machine and I made a screen door spring i had laying around work. Its returns quick but not that quick i dont think.


----------



## Cmccul8146

Ive never had a piece bounce off the wedge like yours did they always get stuck into the wedge maybe only a few inches but still never bounce off. Also could those return springs be any stronger on that 


Never have had any bounce off mine either. My first impression while watching this video was , and still is, that you have not split enough knotty or crotch pieces to learn to read the wood for these high speed splitters. ( Not being critical, just my opinion ) Don't give up on the nasty stuff yet, BSD. Being a new owner of one these flywheel splitters , you'll discover after a very short time that you can split about anything with them safely. When you run into some of the knotty or crotch pieces, lay them aside until you have time to experiment with them. A little practice & you won't consider saving them for a hydraulic machine. Enjoy your new toy, & thanks for posting the video.

The return springs do seem pretty strong, judging from how the whole machine jumps back on the return .


----------



## BSD

i know I could have split that piece backwards and come out ahead much easier, I split it in that fashion to show what it will do for the doubters. I didn't want people posting "oh you cheated by splitting it the easy way"

The return springs are loose as they can be, in fact one of them already fell off after a violent strike last week. 

The fact that it was bouncing off like that is probably do to the modifications I've done, but also the piece. This was a truely nasty piece of wood, I've split pieces just like it in the 26t hydro machine and it'll damn near kill that machine too if you read the grain wrong.


----------



## CenterTree

BSD said:


> OK, got the camera out again to show the capability of these splitters. double stem red oak crotch, ~15" diameter and 8-10" stems. The piece was cut to 18" length.
> 
> I will NOT be splitting any more pieces like this again. its just flat out dangerous. They will go on the hydro splitter next time. you have far more time to react to a bad split attempt there. the amount of force that is transferred from the flywheels if you have a dead-stop are just way too dangerous. I only filmed this to show what they will do. This piece of red oak was really nasty inside. I actually was going to give up on it because I was afraid for my safety, hence the pause in the middle of the video, but I figured some of the doubters need to see what they will really do.
> 
> [video=facebook;272170812816613]http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=272170812816613[/video]


 
WOW!, That video makes me think twice. Thanks for posting. I saw this machine today at my local TSC. Looks decent, price is better than DR and SS of course. 

As I inspected it at TSC I too feel that the green safety button would be a PITA. But it also would be very safe and possibly save the operator from loosing his left hand (or a few fingers) if he inadvertently placed it on the log and hit the lever.

I know if ya kept your wits about you while using this machine it would be OK, but it only takes ONE time of complacency to be in the ER.

How do you like the table on that thing?? :msp_confused: It seem like the raised lip at the end might be a hindrance to letting the split pieces fall to the ground. (the ones that need no further splitting) Of course maybe the operator would NOT want the big ones to fall.


*
Nice job on the handle mod though.... INGENIOUS I must say*.


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## Pcoz88

*Read some reviews on TSC web site,racks breaking teeth off!!!*

One guy went through 2 machines both of them lost rack and a bearing on the other.Is any body else having problems????


Pete


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## TreePointer

Eek!


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## D&B Mack

Pcoz88 said:


> One guy went through 2 machines both of them lost rack and a bearing on the other.Is any body else having problems????
> 
> 
> Pete


 
What's the cost for the extended warranty? Interested to see if that gets it up closer to the price of the DR and SS.


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## KiwiBro

Doesn't sound good. Makes you wonder whether the price is just a tad too cheap. It may be they won't do a thing to improve the quality, rather up the price to cover for the higher than anticipated warranty claims, in which case, those risk takers willing to roll the dice might want to buy now and rely on the warranty, before the price goes up, or just buy the more expensive splitter brands and be done with it?


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## Dozer Man

*SpeedPro cost....*

I tried to get them down with no such luck. $1699 + $199.99 for 3yr. extended warranty. That's 4 years of warranty for $1900. Still an excellent deal to me. 

No mechanical issues with anything on the splitter (I did remove the safety button and reverse the handle though...lots more user friendly) . It's split some pretty nasty large stuff too. It kinda makes you wonder...2 failed units....from the same store.....probly put together by the same guy........Hmmm...?!?!?! It's the first issues I've heard of so far.

I love mine!!


----------



## Iron Mike

Dozer Man said:


> I tried to get them down with no such luck. $1699 + $199.99 for 3yr. extended warranty. That's 4 years of warranty for $1900. Still an excellent deal to me.
> 
> No mechanical issues with anything on the splitter (I did remove the safety button and reverse the handle though...lots more user friendly) . It's split some pretty nasty large stuff too. It kinda makes you wonder...2 failed units....from the same store.....probly put together by the same guy........Hmmm...?!?!?! It's the first issues I've heard of so far.
> 
> I love mine!!


 
Don't you think you might have voided the extended warranty you paid 200 bucks for by modifying the splitter and removing the factory safety features?


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## Dozer Man

*Voided Warranty...Nope*

Everything I've done can be put back to stock in 20 minutes. I removed the safety button all together...1 bolt and 1 cotterpin 1 tiny spring. Does not effect operation at all. I reversed the handle by making a plate to hinge the stock handle from the rear...only alteration from stock is I drilled 2 holes in sheet metal...I hardly think they will void my warr. because of two 5/16" holes in the sheetmetal.


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## Pcoz88

It was in 2 different states, I would say bad batch of racks.I think the tsc splitter is faster then even dr and SS.As far as the rack coming out.


Pete


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## D&B Mack

Are the rack and pinion considered a wear part? And if so, if the teeth break off, is anyone sure if this will be covered? I know this is an issue on HO chippers.


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## TFPace

Pcoz88 said:


> It was in 2 different states, I would say bad batch of racks.I think the tsc splitter is faster then even dr and SS.As far as the rack coming out.
> 
> 
> Pete


 
I'm agreeing with you on the poor heat treat on the rack. I'd bet the serial numbers of the two failures were very close together.

This machine is new and I'm not entirely surprised to learn about the rack issues and where this machine is being built...... and I own one too:msp_wink:


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## Dozer Man

*Very Fast Ram...*

I have noticed from watching SS and DR videos that the speedpro has a somewhat faster ram speed. IMHO there is no need to run this machine at full throttle. I run mine at approx. 1/2 to 2/3 throttle. At this throttle setting it still has a very fast ram speed, it takes less energy to push the engagement arm, it engages the gears easier, it makes little if any difference on split strength, and best of all it sips gas. I used to find that when I got to a big or knotted piece, one that I thought I might have trouble with, that I was habitually walking to the back of the machine and cranking the throttle up, just for that piece. Then I started trying them at the lower throttle setting, and eventually now have broke that habit. I never move the throttle from its medium setting and never have problems. So far so good...time will tell. 

And once again...it's towable...that's a must for me. I would have to modify the DR or the SS.


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## lumberjackmoe

Dozerman, I live in Bloomington, Indiana. Are we close. I am thinking about purchaseing a Speedpro also.


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## hanniedog

They have one at my local TSC store, the running gear portion looked rather weak to me. Just glanced at the machine never took a close look at it.


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## Dozer Man

*Lumberjackmoe*

5 hrs north of bloomington. Reading this thread from the beginning will answer about all you questions. If not then just ask...I'm sure someone will help you.


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## BSD

just changed my oil for the first time yesterday after hitting the 6 hour mark. I also noted that i'll finally have to fill it up with gas, the first tank full is finally just about gone. :msp_biggrin:


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## lumberjackmoe

*Speedpro log splitter*

I just spoke to a rep at Speeco, ( It is now Blunt or Blount International ) Speeco sold out to Blunt. He stated that if anyone would read the warrany they would understand that drilling two 5/16" holes in the cover does void the warranty. I also asked him if he felt that running the engine at 1/2 throttle would be hard on the engine. He said no but, my local small engine repair said that it is. The rep stated that they have had some problems with the racks but just a few. I discussed that the engagement handle being curved like Dozer came up with would be a more positive engagement then the engagement handle on top and trying to engage it with your arm at a near full extention. He did not want to talk about it. I have used one at the TSC store and I ground a few gears while attempting to engage it.


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## TFPace

*Warranty*

I know that Speeco/Blount would cry foul on the alternation part of their warranty with respect to holes drilled and handles altered. But if they are having rack failures, the way we have improved the handle placement is a flat out cop out. PERIOD. Any man that would look me in the eye and make that claim is FOS.

As for engine operating speed, I had to tell my employee this morning that mid-throttle is plenty is fast. He agreed and has been splitting all morning. The guys are impressed at the speed and seems to like the performance.


----------



## TFPace

lumberjackmoe said:


> I just spoke to a rep at Speeco, ( It is now Blunt or Blount International ) Speeco sold out to Blunt. He stated that if anyone would read the warrany they would understand that drilling two 5/16" holes in the cover does void the warranty. I also asked him if he felt that running the engine at 1/2 throttle would be hard on the engine. He said no but, my local small engine repair said that it is. The rep stated that they have had some problems with the racks but just a few. I discussed that the engagement handle being curved like Dozer came up with would be a more positive engagement then the engagement handle on top and trying to engage it with your arm at a near full extention. He did not want to talk about it. I have used one at the TSC store and I *ground a few gears *while attempting to engage it.



Lumberjackmoe,

As for your opinion on the engaging efficiency of the OEM's design versus the AS members, it is my opinion that either design exerts enough force the make the mechanism function, i.e. split wood. Our improvements allow for increased operator comfort and speed. 

As for "ground a few gears" this is something that is part of the design. Hopefully, our racks & pinions were successfully heat treated to take the wear and tear that's part of the kinetic splitter design. I can't speak for the SS owners but IMO that any rack & pinion splitter will grind a few gears.

Thanks,

Tom


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## nysparkie

*Kenetic Splitters*

Just started using the DR Rapid Fire: All, except Suzuki engine, made in USA.
The DR uses a tool harden pinion with hardened groves to power its splitting shaft.
I read on the Tractor Supply Model teeth kept breaking on some of the users.
Don't like the idea of teeth on the splitter. When you engage the splitting shaft
the shaft from the engine has to engage into the wheel the teeth are located on.
If it does so, not completely, I can see how teeth break, shear or otherwise need to be
replaced more often than a hardened pinion shaft. Go to Dr Country Products and see
about the shaft I am talking about. Of Course there is a big difference between prices.
The Tractor Supply Model is quite a bit less expensive. But if it breaks what is the down time
worth to you. Right now if you buy Factory Direct From DR Country you get a 3 year warranty.
500 or something off the list price. One year use/don't like return. But that is only factory direct
buying. I do not work for them. I am not advocating one over the other. I am only informing
on what could be three big differences. 1. Engineering 2. Price 3. Warranty
I only used mine two days now. I put some 20 inch ash with knots in it through it
to see just how good it is. Some of the knots were split immediately. Others I had to
hit the stump a couple of times. Others had to be rotated to "hack" around it. But all in all
it was at least 4 times faster than a hydraulic splitter. If I only used straight grade oak, maple,
hickory, no knots, I believe I hit 6X faster. Less gas, less time, no hyd fluids. One set back or
irk I had is, There is no stinkin trailer hitch? WTH with that. I am now in the process of
figuring how to hook one up. I also suggest if you buy the DR you certainly want the 
splitting table which is an XTRA $299.00. I guess that is a downer too. It comes with
handles similar to wheelbarrow ones. You will need them to push the thing around.
It weighs in the neighborhood of 499lbs w/tray. One the plus side for some bucks more
you can get a electric start model and put Mama to work.

I noticed at TSC, that they now list a Speeco Kinetic Log Splitter. Looks to be like a DR RapidFire Log Splitter, but I could not find anything on the Speeco page about it. Price isn't too bad either. I had not seen in on their site until today. My local TSC does not have one in stock.

Anyone know anything about this splitter?[/QUOTE]


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## Dalmatian90

> the way we have improved the handle placement is a flat out cop out.



I don't get that.

One look at the design says that was a deliberate decision they made for liability reasons (it forces the user to keep both hands out of the ram area when operated as designed) -- lawyers would eat their lunch if they supported such changes. 

Wasn't that long ago there was a thread here with folks #####ing about TimberWolf (I believe, it was one of the premium hydraulic folks) discontinuing an auto-return valve on one of their lines.

As companies get bigger, usually liability increases -- there's an assumption they can do more engineering, and they have more assets to sue for. (Rule #1 of lawsuits: the defendant has to have money to pay your lawyers if they win  )

If we modify it on our own, at least that's on us (mostly).


----------



## TFPace

*"I don't get that."*

Dalmatian90,

You're not getting that is partly due to my not proof reading my writing. Wordsmith I am not. For that I apologize. Lumberjackmoe's post mentions that the mods made to the handle may result in a more positive engagement with the rack & pinion. If there were to be any failure to either the rack or pinion on a machine that had undergone a handle modification the handle modification would have zero effect on the rack/pinion failure. Changing the handle results in a more efficient/comfortable "feel" for the operator. When I altered my machine I knew that I was making it "more dangerous" and these improvements have consequences.

I hope I have made my point more clear.


----------



## Dozer Man

*Really??? Two holes voids warranty???*

Well I guess I should have called the speeco representative and asked permission/advice as to where I was going to mount my "Slow Moving Vehicle" reflective triangle at??? Or where I was going to mount my flashing yellow light??? LMAO...I have all kinds of excuses for the two holes. They wouldn't void the whole warranty on a brand new car if I drilled 2 holes in the hood(except for the hood warranty of course). If they void my warranty...so be it. I will deal with it when the time comes...to each there own. If there is a full on recall, I still doubt the TSC people will complain. Odds are it would be a simple part replacement type of recall. Factory warranty is one year...tsc supplies the extended warranty. Again...time will tell.


----------



## Dozer Man

*Safety Equipment and Throttle*

I might have to agree that bypassing or simply removing the "safety" button makes this machine less safe. But...absolutely no less safe than any other brand of kinetic splitter (SS,DR, and others) on the market. None others have a two hand operation. 
Does reversing the handle make it less safe??? If so, then no less safe than any other kinetic splitter that I have seen. They all have there engagement mechanism towards the front of the hoods on there machines. I understand why speeco set up there engagement mechanism the way they did (idiot proofing)...I just feel that I can be responsible enough to operate the machine in the tried and true way. I know that I am responsible for my own actions. Again...to each there own.

As for the throttle position...if you run this machine for any extended period of time, you will reallize that it does not need to be run at full throttle. If someone were to convince me that the engine would be better off running full throttle all the time, #1...they would be very hard pressed to do so, #2...I would seriously look into a "gear ratio" change to slow the machine down. Personally I like getting 6 hours of run time out of a tank of gas.


----------



## TreePointer

The full throttle issue is not simply about creating enough torque to perform the task at hand. These newer engines need to run at full throttle to ensure proper cooling.


----------



## Dozer Man

TreePointer said:


> The full throttle issue is not simply about creating enough torque to perform the task at hand. These newer engines need to run at full throttle to ensure proper cooling.




I definately haven't seen any signs of exsessive heat whatsoever (even at 80+). I'd guess that's because the motor rarely pulls from any kind of load. I remember from a previous reply to this thread that someone actually used a tachometer. I believe they said 2700 rpm was there premium operating rpm. I'd guess that is approx 2/3 throttle. I do recall that they also agree that full throttle is not needed.


----------



## Dozer Man

*Full throttle or not*



TreePointer said:


> The full throttle issue is not simply about creating enough torque to perform the task at hand. These newer engines need to run at full throttle to ensure proper cooling.


 

I would agree with this for an engine that was under load all the time. For instance, when I'm mowing on my hydrostat riding mower, I'm mowing at full throttle. When I'm just driving around the yard, not under a load, I don't run full throttle.


----------



## TreePointer

Dozer Man said:


> I would agree with this for an engine that was under load all the time. For instance, when I'm mowing on my hydrostat riding mower, I'm mowing at full throttle. *When I'm just driving around the yard, not under a load, I don't run full throttle*.


 
That's your choice, but I prefer not to chance it. I've talked to various *** dealers and they all say the same thing--run at full throttle ALL THE TIME to ensure proper cooling. This also appears in new owners manuals. Older engines were overbuilt and could take it better. With today's manufacturers trying to make things lighter and keep costs down, we don't find big hunks of engine metal or extra cooling metal anymore.


----------



## Dalmatian90

> You're not getting that is partly due to my not proof reading my writing



I gotcha now, and I missed in the thread that the handle mods had made the mechanical engaging more efficient. I thought they were simply to bypass the Safety Sallie mechanism (which I agree fully is an overly cautious design for this type of equipment and usage).


----------



## Dalmatian90

As for the engine throttle issue, I'd be interested if the manufacturers actually provided specs about RPM and Temperature. 

These aren't engines built to exacting quality control tolerances and run only by conscientious (wow that took me a while to spell) operators.

Most folks don't have the tools to check that, but it's also not that far out of the capability of most folks to own...what $200 for a decent tach and an infrared thermometer?

I'd reckon there's a world of difference between a "good" engine coming off the manufacturing line, in 45º weather, run by an operator whose careful to clean the machine of built up dirt and wood chips that otherwise insulate the fins, air filters are clean, carb is cleaned and tuned...and a mediocre engine being run on a 90º day in full sun by someone who just starts-and-forgets his equipment. "Full throttle" is probably based on assuming the latter situations are all true.


----------



## EXCALIBER

Ok I have not read through this entire thread on these splitters. I did see the video about splitting an oak crotch and seemed this had a hard time splitting it not to mention don't like the piece flying back and trying to give you a kiss. I see everyone splitting hard wood which is actually easier to split that soft wood is. I have yet to find a video of anyone splitting softwood, like wet cottonwood with one of these. My guess is it will not split it but IDK, so any videos of that around that I missed? Where I live that's most of what we cut as its the most abundant and do not have hard wood here.


----------



## lumberjackmoe

*Warranty*

TSC told me that the warranty for the 1st year is their responsibility, after that any extended warranty is a third party responsibility. The gave me the name of the 3rd party but I don't have it handy now.


----------



## lumberjackmoe

*law suit action*

We all say now we will be responsible for the modifications that we make to the unit until we get injured. Then there will be 5 or more attorneys standing in line to take the case.
At one time I was selling some very powerful quality pressure washers. The company that I sold for had a 100% libility insurance premium increase in about 1984. One company got sued because the fellow operating the washer was thirsty so he put the end of the wand of the 6 gallon 3,000 psi washer that he was operating in his mouth and pulled the trigger to get a drink and blew the side of his face off. He sued and won.
These companies are just trying to cover their butts.


----------



## Mntn Man

The reason you are supposed to run full throttle is because they don't have an oil pump. There is a dipper that splashes oil to lube the rod and crank bearings. Running at less than full throttle can cause improper lubrication. Just what I have been told by the small engine shop.


----------



## Dozer Man

*Full Throttle or Not Full Throttle*

I'm perfectly happy with where I run my engine. I'm not a mechanic, but I have had some experience with small engines. You know those engines that have no throttle on them?? I hate them. They have a preset WOT (wide open throttle) set from the factory, with no adjustment. I kringe every time I have to start one of those engines because of the obvious ring,piston and cylinder wall damage that happens everytime it's started at WOT, with zero oil pressure, and zero warmup. It goes against everything I've learned in my 45 yrs.

I never warm up my stihl chain saws at WOT. In fact, now that I think of it, I try not to run my saw at WOT, unless its needed. It's just wasted rpm to me. I'd rather set my throttle where it needs to be for the workload being performed. Imho, if kohler was deadset on there engine running at WOT, they would have set it there from the factory. 

I like having the ability to set the throttle on my kohler engine at the desired speed I feel is necessary for the LOAD on the machine that it is attached. I'm not running all day at idle. It is not running at the WOT either. 

Starting and warming up at slightly off idle is a tremendous longevity advantage IMHO!!! 

But my guess is that if kohler or speeco was to preset a throttle setting from the factory...it would probably be somewhere between 2500 and 3000 rpm, or at about 2/3 throttle.


----------



## Dozer Man

*5 Attorneys Standing In Line...*



lumberjackmoe said:


> We all say now we will be responsible for the modifications that we make to the unit until we get injured. Then there will be 5 or more attorneys standing in line to take the case.
> At one time I was selling some very powerful quality pressure washers. The company that I sold for had a 100% libility insurance premium increase in about 1984. One company got sued because the fellow operating the washer was thirsty so he put the end of the wand of the 6 gallon 3,000 psi washer that he was operating in his mouth and pulled the trigger to get a drink and blew the side of his face off. He sued and won.
> These companies are just trying to cover their butts.




I absolutely agree. The whole reason speeco designed there engagement settup the way they did was to cover there butts. I don't blame them for being extra cautious. But, like someone in this thread said some time ago...I can see, with a two hand operation of this machine, that someone will decide it's easier to have someone else running the machine while someone puts wood in it. That to me is a recipe for disaster. 

One bad thing about the "Idiot Proofing" going on today...you can try to "idiot proof" the world all you wish, the actual problem is that the "idiots" have no limits to there stupidity. And the attorneys know this...


----------



## salto_jorge

As a hobbyist I have been splitting wood to heat my home for as long as I can remember.
Being a hobbyist, I split about 5 cords a season for myself and a few cords for the neighbors, 10-20 in rounds typically 18 inches long (stove and insert size).

I started using an Axe, worked myself up to a SpeeCo 28 ton unit 5 years ago.
Not too long ago I got a hold of a SpeedPro to use.
This new splitter is faster than the 28 ton unit, so fast that I have been using it at 1/2 throttle.

Unlike others I like the rear facing handle and its curve where you push down it.
It all comes down to how you operate the splitter.

I appreciated the handle since I do not stand next to or in front of the splitter, Just in case a round kicks out. I want to be alongside the splitter about even with the green safety.
I keep the front of the splitter is one place and let the wood pile up on the tray and then chuck it onto the pile when the pieces are the right size. After a while the front becomes buried in the pile but that is my style of splitting.

View attachment 203120


If you look closely, you can see where I stand and an open area on both sides of the splitter. 

As for the green button, you thumb on the left hand can get tired after long runs, but since I pace my self by stopping and creating a pile of new rounds on my side near the rear tire it is not that bad. 

Since I live in a residential area the safety is great, I do not have to shut down the splitter when others come to check things out, praying that they do not push down or lean on the on the splitting handle.


----------



## Dozer Man

*Nice Pile of Wood*



salto_jorge said:


> As a hobbyist I have been splitting wood to heat my home for as long as I can remember.
> Being a hobbyist, I split about 5 cords a season for myself and a few cords for the neighbors, 10-20 in rounds typically 18 inches long (stove and insert size).
> 
> I started using an Axe, worked myself up to a SpeeCo 28 ton unit 5 years ago.
> Not too long ago I got a hold of a SpeedPro to use.
> This new splitter is faster than the 28 ton unit, so fast that I have been using it at 1/2 throttle.
> 
> Unlike others I like the rear facing handle and its curve where you push down it.
> It all comes down to how you operate the splitter.
> 
> I appreciated the handle since I do not stand next to or in front of the splitter, Just in case a round kicks out. I want to be alongside the splitter about even with the green safety.
> I keep the front of the splitter is one place and let the wood pile up on the tray and then chuck it onto the pile when the pieces are the right size. After a while the front becomes buried in the pile but that is my style of splitting.
> 
> View attachment 203120
> 
> 
> If you look closely, you can see where I stand and an open area on both sides of the splitter.
> 
> As for the green button, you thumb on the left hand can get tired after long runs, but since I pace my self by stopping and creating a pile of new rounds on my side near the rear tire it is not that bad.
> 
> Since I live in a residential area the safety is great, I do not have to shut down the splitter when others come to check things out, praying that they do not push down or lean on the on the splitting handle.




Great to hear!!! 

Nice big pile of wood!!!


----------



## BSD

well, i've done it again... one of my guys buried the splitter in about 2 cords of wood the other day and it was my job to try to get it out of the pile. so I dragged it up to the shop and put two extra holes in the tongue, I have the coupler under the table now, so it doesn't bury itself. I was still able to drag it around with the truck even in the short position too, I wouldn't tow it anywhere down the road in this configuration since it will hit the back of the truck if you turn sharp enough. the short tongue is great for tossing it in the truck too (although my truck doesn't have a tailgate at the moment)

View attachment 203135


I also hoisted a 26" hickory up with some log tongs and the backhoe. it took two shots, but it went through
View attachment 203140


after we setup the 20T hydro machine to quarter down the hickory as I had about a cords worth of stuff over 24" diameter. Working with my BIL, he was able to quarter the pieces down on the hydro almost as quick as I could run them through the speedpro. after we tried working in tandem on the speedpro. having someone work the splits off the table and toss them into the truck or a bag was very helpful. Next up i'm going to make a rack that'll bolt on to the cradle pieces, so that we have more room for re-splits, working with these huge pieces is a bit of a juggling act as you don't want hem to hit the ground (and have to bend over and pick them up again.)


----------



## nysparkie

*Subaru not Suzuki engine.*

My Wife drives a Suzuki SX4. Don't know why it got in my mind when I should have typed Subaru Engine. Sorry.



nysparkie said:


> Just started using the DR Rapid Fire: All, except Subaru engine, made in USA.
> The DR uses a tool harden pinion with hardened groves to power its splitting shaft.
> I read on the Tractor Supply Model teeth kept breaking on some of the users.
> Don't like the idea of teeth on the splitter. When you engage the splitting shaft
> the shaft from the engine has to engage into the wheel the teeth are located on.
> If it does so, not completely, I can see how teeth break, shear or otherwise need to be
> replaced more often than a hardened pinion shaft. Go to Dr Country Products and see
> about the shaft I am talking about. Of Course there is a big difference between prices.
> The Tractor Supply Model is quite a bit less expensive. But if it breaks what is the down time
> worth to you. Right now if you buy Factory Direct From DR Country you get a 3 year warranty.
> 500 or something off the list price. One year use/don't like return. But that is only factory direct
> buying. I do not work for them. I am not advocating one over the other. I am only informing
> on what could be three big differences. 1. Engineering 2. Price 3. Warranty
> I only used mine two days now. I put some 20 inch ash with knots in it through it
> to see just how good it is. Some of the knots were split immediately. Others I had to
> hit the stump a couple of times. Others had to be rotated to "hack" around it. But all in all
> it was at least 4 times faster than a hydraulic splitter. If I only used straight grade oak, maple,
> hickory, no knots, I believe I hit 6X faster. Less gas, less time, no hyd fluids. One set back or
> irk I had is, There is no stinkin trailer hitch? WTH with that. I am now in the process of
> figuring how to hook one up. I also suggest if you buy the DR you certainly want the
> splitting table which is an XTRA $299.00. I guess that is a downer too. It comes with
> handles similar to wheelbarrow ones. You will need them to push the thing around.
> It weighs in the neighborhood of 499lbs w/tray. One the plus side for some bucks more
> you can get a electric start model and put Mama to work.
> 
> I noticed at TSC, that they now list a Speeco Kinetic Log Splitter. Looks to be like a DR RapidFire Log Splitter, but I could not find anything on the Speeco page about it. Price isn't too bad either. I had not seen in on their site until today. My local TSC does not have one in stock.
> 
> Anyone know anything about this splitter?


[/QUOTE]


----------



## nysparkie

*All Kinetic Splitters*

View attachment 203350
View attachment 203351
View attachment 203352

Hi all and good day to you. I have had my Rapid Fire for about a week now. Stinking rain and wind here on the shores of Lake Ontario kept me from doing much splitting. On Sunday my wife stacked as I split with the Rapid fire. We punched out 3 face in about 45 minutes. Ash, Hard Maple, Chestnut, Beech... Even some Y Ash Stumps that took 2 or 3 hits to get through. I could split as fast if not faster than she could stack. Why I used a 27 Ton Hyd splitter for years now has me saying; "Why did I never hear of Kinetic Splitters before I spent $1500.00 bucks on that Troy Bilt I bought." Normally it would take 2 hours minimum for me to get three face split. Now, if I just keep letting it pile up and stack later, I can split in two days I figure what used to take most of a week. Time, Gas, Fluids all good saving.s Esp. Time. Ya the Rapid Fire was 800 bucks more than the Speeco but with that $800 I got a three year warranty. One year hands on test with no BS return if I don't like. Discount of $540 of normal list price. Instant Telephone tech Support. Again if one desires, for $200 more you can get a electric start. On the Rapid Fire the table is wide enough you can pull a 20 1/2 when split over to the side and finish up on the other 1/2. I put as large as a 24 inch stump on it which I had to turn over 360 degrees for a second hit to split. The splitting surface is 5 or 6 inches below my belt line and I am 6ft tall. One hand operation with the engagement handle facing forward right on the front top of the cowling. As I continue to use and learn I will post what I am sure will show itself as issues but right now I am pleasantly surprised on how well Kinetic Splitters work. 

*Reviews from TSC Site:* of the Speedco Kinetic Splitter
14 total reviews at TSC Website. These are the ??? Reviews showing some dissatisfaction. 
All the rest of the reviews are Positive. 
Anyone wish to comment on why some folks are having issues with the *"TEETH"* on this machines gearing?
speed pro
October 8, 2011
1.well this log splitter was fast till it broke the teeth of the plunger shaft returned the first one got a second one now the bearing busted off and broke a tooth off so gonna return this one and think about getting a different brand maybe next year theyll be better made but this splitter is awesome before it breaks.
2.Speedpro The King
October 4, 2011
I just bought this the other day filled it with oil and gas and went to town. I have never used a splitter before besides a sledge and wedges. This thing works awsome blowing through oak, birch, locast, walnut and some kind of wood I can't identify. I probably split just under a cord in about an hour and a half. I hope it holds up for years to come the only thing I could find at fault is the one axle is welded on at an angle so it would probably wear tires if it was transported alot.
3.Speed pro splitter
October 1, 2011
Well, let me start by saying this thing works awesome, at least before 5 of the teeth broke off (after the 10th log) the rack rendering it useless for the group of guys that are coming to help me split tomorrow.
I went to TSC to report the problem only to find out the only other one of these this store sold came back for the same reason.
At this point I am not going to say anything negative until I see how TSC and SpeeCo help me resolve the issue. I'm going to hope that it was a hardening issue and not a major engineering fault.
If this becomes a repeat problem, I will have to return it and go hydraulic.
One other thing they will have to repair is the right axle that is welded on crooked. If left this way it will eat tires if I tow it anywhere.
More to follow....
4.Wonderful Machine!
September 18, 2011
This is an AWSOME Splitter! It will work the Stacker to death! It's so simple!
The ONLY Problem I have is the use of regular Bolts, half of which were Missing, Loose and/or rusted badly?
The Engine was not set squarely, so one belt was loose?
All of these problems are simple to fix, I don't know who assembled this unit? Tractor Supply or Speeco?
Either way, I WOULD RECOMMEND this SPLITTER!
SUPER FAST, TO EASY TO USE! A lot less bending over the Hydraulic Units!
5.bad purchase
October 11, 2011
got it home and do not operate like the preview, just grinds the gears. all the money i paid i cant even use!


----------



## TFPace

*SpeedPro Log Splitter Thread*

It is just me or isn't this thread about Speeco SpeedPro Log Splitters?:msp_biggrin:

nysparkie, thanks for sharing your insight on the DR machine, but this thread is on SpeedPro machine.


----------



## sunfish

Now I'm all confused :msp_confused:


----------



## nysparkie

This is from the First Post on this subject:
New SpeedPro Kinetic Log Splitter from TSC...


I noticed at TSC, that they now list a Speeco Kinetic Log Splitter. Looks to be like a DR RapidFire Log Splitter, but I could not find anything on the Speeco page about it. Price isn't too bad either. I had not seen in on their site until today. My local TSC does not have one in stock.

Anyone know anything about this splitter? 




TFPace said:


> It is just me or isn't this thread about Speeco SpeedPro Log Splitters?:msp_biggrin:
> 
> nysparkie, thanks for sharing your insight on the DR machine, but this thread is on SpeedPro machine.


Seems to me, *just saying* The First Post compared one Speedco, against another, RapidFire. Or am I just imagining things?
Is it that he wasn't comparing one to another? Did I misread his intentions? I also see on this thread where folks are comparing
Super Split to Speedco to RapidFire. Guess I am the only one who gets hammered for comparing. Wonder why?


----------



## TFPace

nysparkie,

Please believe me, I'm not hammering, other than there is a DR specific thread for that machine.

Your are correct sir that there have been posts from DR owners, IMO this thread is now focused on the Speeco SpeedPro machine. If I'm speaking out of turn I apologize.


----------



## nysparkie

You are more correct than I. The subject matter did turn to specifically SPEEDCO. Button/Handle fabricating. Some operating idiosyncrasies. Just didn't recognize it as being specific to SPEEDCO. I guess I and the Super Splits will have to go elsewhere to compare KINETIC SPLITTERS - the Good and Bad of each. 


TFPace said:


> nysparkie,
> 
> Please believe me, I'm not hammering, other than there is a DR specific thread for that machine.
> 
> Your are correct sir that there have been posts from DR owners, IMO this thread is now focused on the Speeco SpeedPro machine. If I'm speaking out of turn I apologize.


----------



## KiwiBro

nysparkie said:


> I guess I and the Super Splits will have to go elsewhere to compare KINETIC SPLITTERS - the Good and Bad of each.


To hell with the thread police and wannabe AS hall monitors, compare whatever splitters you like. Heck, compare this speedpro (S or SP or SC or TSC or B - for Blount, who own Speeco) with a DR, SS, Logrite (so, are we going with L or LR for them ?), Flackhill (F?), wood wolf (WW?) all you want and may the best splitter/proposition win.
Tell you what, whoever wins this heat advances to the finals against the winner from the Hydraulic section (I bet it's a TW-6 with auto cycle and 4-way wedge) and then the winner can be granted the highest honour - the unofficial AS member endorsement. I say unofficial to appease assorted twitchy-fingered sponsors 'not impressed' with such direct comparisons with or endorsements of, competing brands that are not site sponsors (free speech comes at a cost, doncha know).

Let the games begin, and may the 'best' splitter prevail before we run out of bandwidth arguing over the judging criteria.

On the flywheel side of the comp' my money is on the SP for value and the way they covered their donkeys but still left it easy enough to mod back into something productive (at the owners risk).


----------



## Dozer Man

*Wow!!!*

Lmao.....


----------



## stumpy75

Wow, when I started this thread, I was just asking about the new SpeedPro, which I had just seen for the first time. Who knew it would take on this kind of life! :wink2:

I really don't care if anyone does a comparison with any other splitter or talks about mods they have done. This is how we all learn which one is right or wrong for each of us. :msp_wink:

I ended up with a 22 ton Huskee(Speeco), which was the right one for me. 

Have FUN out there, and play nice!


----------



## cowroy

stumpy75 said:


> I ended up with a 22 ton Huskee(Speeco), which was the right one for me.


 
What do you think of your 22ton Huskee hydro (not to jack your thread) is there anything you have had trouble splitting? I was dead set on a SS, but there are too many things I don't like IMO. With a hydro I like the verticle split motion, the control one has being able to stop the ram, not having to pick up all the wood. Also I would like to skin all the bark off (because bark holds moisture) and with a kinetic splitter I wouldn't attemp it because of the speed I don't think I could get away from it.


----------



## stumpy75

I have just completed splitting over 3 full cords of a huge ash tree. Rounds as big as 2 1/2 to 3 feet. Some large crotches, and a lot of twisty, stringy wood. Only thing it would not go through was a 1/2" bolt hidden in one of the pieces!

I tend to get larger wood than some people do, and after considering the Speedpro, I decided that I wanted a splitter that could go vertical for those big rounds. Noodling does get old after a short while! For all of that, the 22 ton hydro was the one for me. I did, however, make up a quick jig for the big rounds, as the foot plate of the splitter is quite a bit smaller than the rounds I was splitting. I made up a plate of 2" lumber so the round would sit level when on the foot, instead of leaning. 

I like the speed of the SpeedPro, but the 13 second cycle time of the 22 ton was plenty fast for me. The two-handed operation of the SpeedPro was also a drawback to me, but it seems to have been solved by some of the people here.

I didn't bother with stripping the bark. It burns good, and I don't seem to have the problem of moisture.


----------



## cowroy

Exactly what I needed to know! Thank you sir, and have some rep!


----------



## KiwiBro

Just to get way off topic here: what is the repping thing about, apart from acknowledging a posters words? Or is that it's sole purpose? Also, what's the 'currency' thing got to do with the price of fish? If it's currency, what can you buy with it?


----------



## peterc38

KiwiBro said:


> Also, what's the 'currency' thing got to do with the price of fish? If it's currency, what can you buy with it?


 

It's quite simple really, once you build up 10,000 credits, you get a free kinetic splitter. Of course, you have to get what your AS brethren agree is the best kinetic splitter and since two of us hardly ever agree on anything, the decision process is known to be lengthy.


----------



## philwillmt

*Purchased new SpeedPro splitter!*

Just picked up a new splitter (in the crate) from TSC yesterday. I will be glad to post the outcome of the assembly and use of this new splitter as things progress. I've enjoyed reading all 200+ posts on this forum about the SpeedPro...at least _most_ of them were about the SpeedPro!  Reading through these posts, as well as other research, is what helped me make up my mind and give this splitter a try. I'll post again when I get it going...hopefully sooner than later!


----------



## stumpy75

philwillmt said:


> Just picked up a new splitter (in the crate) from TSC yesterday. I will be glad to post the outcome of the assembly and use of this new splitter as things progress. I've enjoyed reading all 200+ posts on this forum about the SpeedPro...at least _most_ of them were about the SpeedPro!  Reading through these posts, as well as other research, is what helped me make up my mind and give this splitter a try. I'll post again when I get it going...hopefully sooner than later!



Have fun with your new toy!


----------



## lumberjackmoe

*extended warranty*

Philwillmt, I usually don't buy extended warranties. I am not sure if I will buy a extended warranty for the Speedpro when I buy. Did you get the extended? I wonder how many people do go for the extended on the Speedpro.


----------



## BSD

Hey Moe, nice to see you on the forums.

I for one, did not get the extended warranty. there are very few parts on these machines. Most of which are steel, which I can weld right here at the shop. whats the worst that happens? break a belt? are you really going to wait 2 weeks for a warranty belt to come in the mail? no, i'll spend the $16 at the local shop and get one installed in an hour of it breaking and get back to work.

some people (not on this forum here though) have broken teeth off the rack. you can find those pinion racks at machine shops, or have one ordered. they only have one or two stop's welded onto them and then the rest of it bolts into the machine. personally for $300 i didn't think the risks were great enough.


----------



## lumberjackmoe

Thank you BSD. I enjoy your post. Great job. I enjoyed speaking with you by phone last week.


----------



## oneoldbanjo

Dozer Man said:


> I definately haven't seen any signs of exsessive heat whatsoever (even at 80+). I'd guess that's because the motor rarely pulls from any kind of load. I remember from a previous reply to this thread that someone actually used a tachometer. I believe they said 2700 rpm was there premium operating rpm. I'd guess that is approx 2/3 throttle. I do recall that they also agree that full throttle is not needed.


 
I am probably a little too late to the party for the discussion on throttle settings......but I do want to comment. I have owned and worked on small engines for more than 40 years.....and I am a certified gear head. I have owned and operated lots of equipment.....and never burned up or worn out any engines. I run some engines at full throttle.....and some at part throttle. You need to understand that you want to avoid lugging any engine and avoid operating the engine at a speed setting that will keep the governer and carb "wide open" for an extended period of time. For lawn mowers, pumps, generators, garden tractors used for mowing, tillers, leaf blowers, and any equipment with constant loads you will probably be setting the speed setting at "full speed"....and the governer will regulate the throttle setting to provide the power necessary to maintain that speed.....and you will seldom encounter a situation where the engine will require making full horsepower for any extended period of time. For engines that are on log splitters, conveyors, garden tractors pulling trailers while doing yard work, go carts, mini bikes, etc......I think it is fine to regulate the speed to match the job being done. The key is to avoid lugging the engine where the engine speed is low and the governer is opening the carb butterfly wide to try and make enough power to hold the low speed.

I operate my hydraulic splitter at about half throttle most of the time and it just pushes right through the smaller logs. When I put something big on I will increase the speed.......I just pay attention to the sound of the engine and avoid "lugging" the engine and making it work really hard at lower rpm's. My mowers get run at full speed all the time.


----------



## Natewood

I just read through this whole thread and haven't seen anyone splitting big rounds with this. Is this machine capable of splitting my 30+ inch butts? my biz is primarily large removals and I have plenty of 60 in butts sitting in my woodlots. I'm very interested in the design and can't believe this is the first time I've heard of a kinetic splitter! I must've been living under a rock! 

By no means am I trying to bash kinetics, I have a log mauler and v/h and 4way machines and I'm almost definately going to buy a kinetic even if it cant do my big rounds.... But has anyone tried?


----------



## BSD

i ran a 26" hickory through mine last week. I posted a picture a few reply's ago. this was a cut below the crotch of a double stem, it took two shots but went through. straight grain pieces were no problem.

I do quarter my big rounds on the hydro and then put them on the speedpro, much faster that way.


----------



## Dozer Man

*extended warranty*



lumberjackmoe said:


> Philwillmt, I usually don't buy extended warranties. I am not sure if I will buy a extended warranty for the Speedpro when I buy. Did you get the extended? I wonder how many people do go for the extended on the Speedpro.


 
I did purchase the 3 year extended warranty at $200. But, after getting the machine home and looking under the hood a little closer, and operating more, I would have to agree with BSD. There's not that many parts to go bad and odds are I will fix it myself anyway. When I purchased the machine there hadn't been too much feedback yet. So I was more worried about manufacturers design flaws...the things that they fix in the "next model year" but won't fix out of warranty. Hind sight 20/20, I wish I could get my 200 back.


----------



## Natewood

I think I'm gonna buy one and fab a slip on 4way....


----------



## Dalmatian90

> , I wish I could get my 200 back.



Take your receipt to the store and return the warranty. As long as it's the 30 day returns window it shouldn't be an issue.

It's something you bought that you decided you didn't need or didn't fit your needs.

If they give you any flack, shrug and say you'll go home, get the splitter, return the entire purchase. Moment they refund the card, go "You know what, I want it after all. But I'm not going to take the extended warranty this time. Ring it up."

Laws really vary by states, but in a few these plans are formally considered pre-paid insurance policies in which case you should be able to cancel the policy and receive a refund for the pro-rated portion at any time.


----------



## Dozer Man

*Thanks Dalmatian*



Dalmatian90 said:


> Take your receipt to the store and return the warranty. As long as it's the 30 day returns window it shouldn't be an issue.
> 
> It's something you bought that you decided you didn't need or didn't fit your needs.
> 
> If they give you any flack, shrug and say you'll go home, get the splitter, return the entire purchase. Moment they refund the card, go "You know what, I want it after all. But I'm not going to take the extended warranty this time. Ring it up."
> 
> Laws really vary by states, but in a few these plans are formally considered pre-paid insurance policies in which case you should be able to cancel the policy and receive a refund for the pro-rated portion at any time.



I will try that. Crap...Now I'm over thinking it. Afraid I will jinx myself if I return the extended warranty.......... dangit.......what to do?? That's the thing about insurance...it's a gamble. If it keeps up this rain, I will sure be able to put that 200 bucks to better use!!


----------



## KiwiBro

Natewood said:


> I think I'm gonna buy one and fab a slip on 4way....



I look forward to the pics and video of that.


----------



## Dalmatian90

> Is this machine capable of splitting my 30+ inch butts?



I'm thinking if you're lifting 30" butts onto the splitter, you don't need one. What do they weigh? 350? 400 pounds?

That's the realm of noodling, vertical splitters, and horizontals with log lifts. 

The LogRite variation of this, if you buy all the bells and whistles, is the only one could handle this without using additional equipment and that'll run you about $10k. 

Otherwise I can't see someone routinely taking the time with front end loaders and/or tongs to position a log on the SuperSplit, etc. 

It's sort of like asking if a Porsche can tow a camper. Even though it's capable if you finagle it enough, it's not the right application.


----------



## philwillmt

lumberjackmoe said:


> Philwillmt, I usually don't buy extended warranties. I am not sure if I will buy a extended warranty for the Speedpro when I buy. Did you get the extended? I wonder how many people do go for the extended on the Speedpro.


 
Strange you asked about an extended warranty! I actually purchased my splitter from TSC on October 1. They didn't even know they were going to be carrying these splitters, and they didn't have any in stock. I had a 10% off coupon, and they let me pay for the splitter in advance of receiving it. I did not purchase an extended warranty at that time. In fact, I had never purchased an extended warranty of any kind for anything! So, from October 1 until the splitter came in on October 18 I kept researching threads concerning the SpeedPro splitter. I read mostly positive comments, but there were just enough negative comments concerning poor quality and issues with the rack gear that I thought I should at least inquire about their extended warranty. Also, since this is a new splitter to Speeco and TSC, I though I might ought to play it safe in this case. I opted for the 3 year warranty at $199. I saved $170 on the splitter with the 10% discount, so in effect I got the warranty for $29. At least that's the way I look at it! I might mention that the 3 year warranty is NOT an extended warranty. It's simply two years in addition to the 1 year manufactures warranty. I hope I never have to use it, but at the same time it's nice to know that I have three years to see how well this splitter holds up. I hope it's the last splitter I ever own...we'll see!


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## salto_jorge

Has anyone compared the KINETIC energy of the SpeedPro to the other similar splitters.

It would be good to know how they compare.


Flywheel Weights
RPM of the flywheel
Dia. of the flywheel
Clutch size
Engine shaft size

Kinetic energy when the flywheel starts spinning, 1/2 throttle, full throttle.

When I read the thread about issues and others not having the same issue maybe the other machine is running at a lower energy setting, one that will never push the splitter and damage anything.

The lower the energy in the flywheel the harder it could be to split some rounds and tear up the splitters.

I use mine at 1/2 throttle, maybe that setting is the same as the other companies splitters when it comes to energy, I have no idea. I am still happy with mine !

I use it like I own it, not something rented with the optional insurance.


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## nysparkie

*DR Rapid Fire Stats for ya.*



salto_jorge said:


> Has anyone compared the KINETIC energy of the SpeedPro to the other similar splitters.
> 
> It would be good to know how they compare.
> 
> 
> Flywheel Weights
> RPM of the flywheel
> Dia. of the flywheel
> Clutch size
> Engine shaft size
> 
> Kinetic energy when the flywheel starts spinning, 1/2 throttle, full throttle.
> 
> When I read the thread about issues and others not having the same issue maybe the other machine is running at a lower energy setting, one that will never push the splitter and damage anything.
> 
> The lower the energy in the flywheel the harder it could be to split some rounds and tear up the splitters.
> 
> I use mine at 1/2 throttle, maybe that setting is the same as the other companies splitters when it comes to energy, I have no idea. I am still happy with mine !
> 
> I use it like I own it, not something rented with the optional insurance.



RapidFire Stats for ya:
MODEL » RapidFire™
RapidFire Log-Splitters
Force 28 HP
Ft. lbs. Torque 8.34
Engine Subaru
HP 6 HP
Cylinder N/A
Max. Log Length 24"
Max. Log Diameter 30"
Cycle Time 3 seconds
Knife Height 6.25"
H-Beam Height 29"
Overall Height 48"
Overall Length 84" w/tray
Width 35"
Weight w/ Table 503 lbs (ES); 499 lbs (MS)
Weight w/o Table 471 lbs (ES); 467 lbs (MS)
Tire Size 18"
Flywheel Weight 74 lbs.
Flywheel Diameter 18.25"
Flywheel Max RPM 400 RPM
Kinetic Energy Stored 2356 ft. pounds
umpkin2:


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## lumberjackmoe

*I got my Speedpro*

I pulled the trigger this morning and purchased my Speedpro. It is every thing I thought it was. I like to split my white oak in squares or rectangles. With the log cradles on either side of the beam it makes it hard to do. Has anyone removed either one or both of the cradles to keep the round flat on the beam ? I think I will try it the next time I use it. I think I will get a Tiny Tach so I can tell how many rpm's I am running it at. I think I am at about 1/3 throttle. It still has plenty of punch!


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## TFPace

Hello Lumberjackmoe,

I think you'll be pleased with your machine. I am very pleased with my machine. I think I'll get a Tiny Tach also. I have one on a pressure washer and the hour meter/ tach are useful.

I had intended on mentioning this sooner but I had to re-tighten the trailer hitch bolts. The TSC guy missed this I'm guessing?


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## Natewood

Dalmatian90 said:


> I'm thinking if you're lifting 30" butts onto the splitter, you don't need one. What do they weigh? 350? 400 pounds?
> 
> That's the realm of noodling, vertical splitters, and horizontals with log lifts.
> 
> The LogRite variation of this, if you buy all the bells and whistles, is the only one could handle this without using additional equipment and that'll run you about $10k.
> 
> Otherwise I can't see someone routinely taking the time with front end loaders and/or tongs to position a log on the SuperSplit, etc.
> 
> It's sort of like asking if a Porsche can tow a camper. Even though it's capable if you finagle it enough, it's not the right application.


 
Just trying to find something fast enough to make it worth purchasing.... if it can fill a spot in my splitter lineup I'dget it. But still I want to know just how versatile it is; as if it got stuck in one of the woodlots without another splitter could it handle the job.


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## TFPace

*Both types are needed*

Natewood,

In my opinion both a hydraulic and kinetic splitter will work well together. You'll still need the hydraulic splitter for the to heavy to lift pieces, along with the very knottier stuff too. 

My hydraulic splitter is vertical only and squatting/kneeling is uncomfortable so standing beside the SpeedPro has become a pleasure not to mention the time savings. Any real big pieces we'll quarter on the hydraulic and then use the SpeedPro.


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## lumberjackmoe

*Removal of log cradle*

TF Pace, I am the same. I will keep my 34 ton Brave splitter for the large stuff to quarter and the knotty rounds. Today I removed the log cradle so that after I split the 1/4 of the 31" butt in 1/2 I have a flat surface to be more accurate in splitting the logs into 3" - 5" pieces, square or retangle. The log sits flat on the splitting beam and both pieces after being split end up on the work table on the other side of the wedge anyway.


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## R6chris

Bought the speed pro today and I must say I'm impressed. The two handed operation is not so bad, you do not have to hold the handle down after it is engaged. Put some nasty twisted oak and it busted through it with a couple of hits.


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## BSD

Well, the speedpro is getting a workout. we started today on a 7-8 cord pile we hauled in from a land clearing job. Going to try to get a conveyor going asap. its a PITA to load the truck after a while.


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## philwillmt

*Disappointed in new SpeedPro splitter!*

I finally got a chance to assemble and test run my new SpeedPro splitter today, and the results were disappointing! The minor issues were: 1) the bearing caps for the wheels were missing, and 2) the lock washers for the engine tensioning bolts were for a left-hand threaded bolts (in other words, backwards for the right-hand threaded bolt). The BIG disappointment came when I started the engine. There is excessive vibration which is obviously due to the flywheels being out of ballance. I shot a short video and I'll try to post it later. I could live with minor vibration, but this is excessive! The push plate on the end of the ram rattles back and forth, the whole machine bounces up and down, and the tires bounce and rotate back and forth. I didn't even bother with splitting a log with it, because I knew right away that I will never be satisfied with this splitter the way it vibrates now. It's an obvious lope...just like an automobile with a wheel that has slung a weight. It becomes noticeable at about 1/3 throttle, and gets progressively worse from 1/3 throttle through full throttle. I plan on calling TSC first to see what they want to do, but I have a feeling they will only offer a refund. I'm sure that if the flywheels were removed and ballanced at a machine shop that the problem would go away, but I shouldn't have to do that, neither should I have to pay for it. TSC has another new unit still in the crate at their store, but I'm not sure if I want to deal with having to take the assembled unit back, swap it for the disassembled unit, and then have to assemble another unit in hopes that it will work properly. I really wish this splitter would have worked well like I expected it to the first time. I'm really torn on which route to take now! :msp_sad: Maybe I should steer clear of the SpeedPro alltogether! I do remember reading a post or two concerning some out-of-ballance issues. I also remember watching a few videos where the logs were vibrating quite a bit when placed in the cradle. Has anyone else had to deal with an out of ballance machine?


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## D&B Mack

philwillmt said:


> I finally got a chance to assemble and test run my new SpeedPro splitter today, and the results were disappointing! ...Has anyone else had to deal with an out of ballance machine?


 
I agree with your concerns, but one note, if you are paying the full price, my TSC assembles the unit for you. Bet you though, if you return that unit, it will be placed right back out on the sales floor for someone else to buy.


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## TFPace

Phil,

I hate to that you're having problems. My TSC wouldn't let the splitter leave w/o their man assemble the splitter. He said the had a check list that had to be completed, etc. My comment was how hard is it to bolt up a hitch and mount the tires.

As far as the balance issue goes, my machine started of with a little bounce and was soon gone. I am only guessing but I think there was some excess paint build up in the belt grooves? Anyway, it runs great.

I would take your machine back and let the manager see what's going on. He'll either give you the other one that they assembled and that you are happy with or refund your purchase.

Stick in there, 

Tom


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## BSD

check the engine alignment, mine was crooked and one belt had a bit of a slack in it causing some bouncing issues.


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## Dozer Man

That's not fun when your new toy doesn't run right from the get go. I definately would take it back and give them a chance to make it right with you. Hopefully they will do so. As for mine, I bought the demo unit. No issues and normal vibration from the solid mounted engine. I did re-align the engine and belts as they had it running one belt looser than the other, just as BSD. But mine never had a vibration from that, I just seen it was misaligned. I agree with the others though, TSC should assemble it for you unless they are offering a discount. 

Good luck and I will say this, imho when you get it right, it shouldn't disappoint.


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## philwillmt

TFPace said:


> Phil,
> 
> I hate to that you're having problems. My TSC wouldn't let the splitter leave w/o their man assemble the splitter. He said the had a check list that had to be completed, etc. My comment was how hard is it to bolt up a hitch and mount the tires.
> 
> As far as the balance issue goes, my machine started of with a little bounce and was soon gone. I am only guessing but I think there was some excess paint build up in the belt grooves? Anyway, it runs great.
> 
> I would take your machine back and let the manager see what's going on. He'll either give you the other one that they assembled and that you are happy with or refund your purchase.
> 
> Stick in there,
> 
> Tom


 
Thanks Tom! I ALWAYS prefer to assemble my own stuff...I KNOW it is done correctly that way, and it also allows me to become familiar with the mechanics of the unit prior to using it. I'm currently working this issue with SpeeCo. I hope to get the issue resolved and the splitter in service very soon, as I have lots of wood just waiting to be split!


----------



## Dozer Man

philwillmt said:


> Thanks Tom! I ALWAYS prefer to assemble my own stuff...I KNOW it is done correctly that way, and it also allows me to become familiar with the mechanics of the unit prior to using it. I'm currently working this issue with SpeeCo. I hope to get the issue resolved and the splitter in service very soon, as I have lots of wood just waiting to be split!


 
Let us know how it goes with SpeeCo. I'm curious to how they deal with your situation and the end results.

My TSC store had already assembled both of there speedpro's. I thought about getting one in the box for the same reasons. To know it was done right and to see how things work. Beings how they'd only run a few rounds through the demo (was only 3 days old), I thought it best to take the one I could "test drive" and see had no issues present. As I had read previously in this thread, vibration issues were a concern. 

Thanks for posting and looking forward to hearing about your results.


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## BSD

we've been busy little beavers with our speedpro. we probably have about 1-1.5 cords left of our 8cord pile we hauled in the other day. everything in the pics has been split on the speedpro. we currently have 21 hours on the machine.
View attachment 204452

View attachment 204453

View attachment 204454


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## KiwiBro

Thanks.

Any reason you didn't split straight into those bags? Just easier to fill 'em later with the bucket?

Any splitter pros and cons stand out for you now you've had 20+ hrs on it?



















BSD said:


> we've been busy little beavers with our speedpro. we probably have about 1-1.5 cords left of our 8cord pile we hauled in the other day. everything in the pics has been split on the speedpro. we currently have 21 hours on the machine.
> View attachment 204452
> 
> View attachment 204453
> 
> View attachment 204454


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## BSD

KiwiBro said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Any reason you didn't split straight into those bags? Just easier to fill 'em later with the bucket?
> 
> Any splitter pros and cons stand out for you now you've had 20+ hrs on it?


i like the bags for being able to move wood around. We have about 30 of them filled now. However I don't have a great way (other than dumping them) to unload at a customers house which I suspect will trash the bag. So for now I'm just using them to build bins with. We are aiming for 45 cords to sell next year which is the pile i'm working on now. Currently we're sitting around 10 cords heaped up.

the machine has been pretty good, it's split some nasty pieces, we've also found a few pieces we've just given up on and we'll get them with the hydro machine later. the real ugly stuff is just dangerous to split.

the machine has had some hiccups.
- clutch bolt fell out today. simple matter of tightening it back up
- weve tossed the return springs a few times, I don't want to make them any tighter, it already returns fast enough. we can deal with hooking them up, usually happens around once every 6-8 hours on the machine.
- wood shavings jamming under ram. This one is a bit of a PITA, a few times now we've had the ram get stuck as it rides up and over a sliver of wood. The wood is in the order of 1/8" thick. it will wedge itself ontop of it and not be able to return to starting position. when this happens we have to beat the ram head back with a sledge. usually only a couple of whacks. however we have had 2 that we actually had to un-bolt the carriage wheels and clear the sliver.
- pinion gear and rack show virtually no signs of wear so far. we have run a bunch of nasty stuff through there and it'll pop and grind the gears once in a while, but so far, holding up well.


Things I want to improve on still:
- conveyor for sure. this machine will bury a slow helper if they're not johnny on the spot. this is my most pressing issue at the moment.
- table extension/modification. with two people working the machine we can go at a blistering pace. one handles all splitting. the other clears the table and brings the big chunks back for re-splits. the helper never puts his hands between the ram and the wedge, we simply toss it into the cradle and the operator is in charge of final positioning before splitting. If we're Working with a large round requiring many resplits additional table area is required. for now we have a 30 gallon drum stood on end that we just put next to the cradle opposite the operator. this is where we pile large chunks for resplits. the helper can stack them there safely and then the operator just reaches over and drags it down into the cradle when ready for them
- table grating - I'd like to built a new, bigger table with grating, much like the out-feed area of a Timberwolf to seperate the chips. this will become even more necessary when we get a conveyor going.
- table end. when I get a new or modified table going I'm going to get rid of the lip at the end. right now some pieces like to jump up off that lip, not terribly dangerous, but have seen a few bind there for a millisecond and then pop up
- fourway wedge. i believe this machine is capable of running a 4-way wedge. clearly not every log will pass through, but a good portion of the straight grain stuff should have no problem being put through a 4way. that'll improve speed on a fair amount of the material we handle.


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## KiwiBro

Yeah, it would be good to come up with a reasonably quick way of emptying those bags without trashing them. Do thay have webbing pick-up hoops on the bottom corners? Have you tried lifting them upside down like that and seeing whether that trashed the bags? Alternatively, could you add a $10 charge into the wood cost and a $10 refund for the return of good bags once the customer has hand unloaded them?

If it would stand up OK with a 4-way wedge, that would be some real fast splitting production.
Would you build a slip-on wedge or some way of sliding it up and down on a pinned spline so you could use the same wedge as a 2-way by sliding it back down until the two 4-way wings are flush with the table, or some other arrangement?


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## philwillmt

BSD said:


> we've been busy little beavers with our speedpro. we probably have about 1-1.5 cords left of our 8cord pile we hauled in the other day. everything in the pics has been split on the speedpro. we currently have 21 hours on the machine.
> View attachment 204452
> 
> View attachment 204453
> 
> View attachment 204454


 
It took an average of 3 hours per cord with a kinetic splitter? I thought these things were supposed to be 6 times faster than a hydraulic?


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## BSD

philwillmt said:


> It took an average of 3 hours per cord with a kinetic splitter? I thought these things were supposed to be 6 times faster than a hydraulic?


actually we've split around 10 cords with it so far. and I'll be damned but I can't figure out a good way to only have it run when we're splitting... :help: I know i've got at least an hour on it just from making modifications and farting around with it and seeing what else we can improve on. we turn it on, let it run, idle it down while we're not using it, rev it up and use it. all our logs come in pole length, we buck while we split. we also toss into a bag or truck while we split. You don't even count that time with a hydro machine because you can toss the splits while the ram is retracting. However on a kinetic, the ram return is darn near instant, and you lose time tossing the wood. give me a pile of blocks and i can do a cord an hour flat if i'm just letting them run off the machine into the dirt or onto a conveyor.


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## lumberjackmoe

*Season wood*

When and how do you guys season the wood that you split. It has to be split to season. Wood Heat.org and others say that you want to leave it out in the sun and wind for a year for most hardwoods and white oak, ( which I have 95% of ) takes 2 years. We want to get the moisture content down to about 20 % to burn nice. In my picture is my daughter and my wood stack going into the winter of 2011. All of what you see I split with my hydro. Thank you guys for you post. It is nice to know we are not alone. See ya later, Moe

View attachment 204615



Also, here is a video of me splitting one of the large white oak logs that made up this wood pile ...

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ImDoWu1Mo6s?hl=en&fs=1" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


----------



## philwillmt

BSD said:


> actually we've split around 10 cords with it so far. and I'll be damned but I can't figure out a good way to only have it run when we're splitting... :help: I know i've got at least an hour on it just from making modifications and farting around with it and seeing what else we can improve on. we turn it on, let it run, idle it down while we're not using it, rev it up and use it. all our logs come in pole length, we buck while we split. we also toss into a bag or truck while we split. You don't even count that time with a hydro machine because you can toss the splits while the ram is retracting. However on a kinetic, the ram return is darn near instant, and you lose time tossing the wood. give me a pile of blocks and i can do a cord an hour flat if i'm just letting them run off the machine into the dirt or onto a conveyor.


 
I was just giving you a hard time BSD...I'm sure you don't realize just how much an engine runs until you equip it with a hour meter! If you're cutting, splitting and bagging wood in that amount of time, I think you're doing great! I'm looking forward to getting my splitter together again for a test run!


----------



## philwillmt

lumberjackmoe said:


> When and how do you guys season the wood that you split. It has to be split to season. Wood Heat.org and others say that you want to leave it out in the sun and wind for a year for most hardwoods and white oak, ( which I have 95% of ) takes 2 years. We want to get the moisture content down to about 20 % to burn nice. In my picture is my daughter and my wood stack going into the winter of 2011. All of what you see I split with my hydro. Thank you guys for you post. It is nice to know we are not alone. See ya later, Moe
> 
> View attachment 204615
> 
> 
> 
> Also, here is a video of me splitting one of the large white oak logs that made up this wood pile ...
> 
> <iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ImDoWu1Mo6s?hl=en&fs=1" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


 
Lumberjackmoe,

I think the climate has a huge effect on exactly how long it takes to season wood for burning. I moved to Montana from Tennessee, and I am amazed at just how much quicker wood dries out in a dryer climate. I cut some standing green cottonwood in late spring, got it split and stacked in mid-summer, and I am burning it in my wood stove right now! If anyone has experience with cottonwood, it is the wettest, heaviest wood I have ever dealt with when it's green. In Tennessee, it would probably take more than two years to dry that out! To me, the key to seasoning wood is getting it split as soon as possible, and stack it in a location where it has plenty of sunshine and air circulation.


----------



## lumberjackmoe

*Seasoning firewood*

I use to think my wood was seasoned until I purchased a moisture meter. I did not buy mine from Harbor Freight but they have them for $12.99. Just Bing Harbor Freight Coupons and get 10% off. I had some butts that were 22' long and about 30" in diameter that were off of the ground for over a year. White Oak. I split them and tested the moisture content on the inside portion of the split. It read about 35%. That dosen't sound like much, but they say your moisture content should be less then 20%. 35% is about 70% greater then 20%. It makes a difference. It takes 1,000 btu's to boil off 1 lb of moisture. Heat lost. They say White Oak takes 2 years to season in Indiana after being split and stacked.


----------



## Peacock

lumberjackmoe said:


> I use to think my wood was seasoned until I purchased a moisture meter. I did not buy mine from Harbor Freight but they have them for $12.99. Just Bing Harbor Freight Coupons and get 10% off. I had some butts that were 22' long and about 30" in diameter that were off of the ground for over a year. White Oak. I split them and tested the moisture content on the inside portion of the split. It read about 35%. That dosen't sound like much, but they say your moisture content should be less then 20%. 35% is about 70% greater then 20%. It makes a difference. It takes 1,000 btu's to boil off 1 lb of moisture. Heat lost. They say White Oak takes 2 years to season in Indiana after being split and stacked.


 
Which is exactly why I cut so much ash. Cut and split green ash. Within 1 month it'll be at or below 20% and burn great. I've never had the luxury of getting very far ahead on my wood supply to let oak season.


----------



## Mntn Man

Peacock said:


> Which is exactly why I cut so much ash. Cut and split green ash. Within 1 month it'll be at or below 20% and burn great. I've never had the luxury of getting very far ahead on my wood supply to let oak season.



I burn mostly ash for that same reason. Space is limited for me. Also, green ash is a lot lighter than green oak so I can haul more on the trailer. That said, I did get into a couple cords of oak last year. Also, I get to go cut some more oak tomorrow. I already have enough wood for 2 years so I'm not going to turn it down. I just need to figure out where to put it! 

I did see TSC got a splitter this week but I have been too busy to stop and look at it, especially since I won't be buying one. I just rehabbed my 22 ton hydro and I'm saving for a destination wedding this spring. (not mine:msp_biggrin


----------



## EXCALIBER

*Oak in Nebraska???*

Mntn Man where are you finding oak at in Nebraska? I have only found elm, cottonwood, pine, and a very little black walnut (like one tree). As far as the problem for space to store it that is easy I have plenty of room right here with a little over 4 acres you can dump any of that nasty, hard to dry out, not even worth messing with, oak on my place anytime you want. After all I want to be neighborly


----------



## philwillmt

lumberjackmoe said:


> I use to think my wood was seasoned until I purchased a moisture meter. I did not buy mine from Harbor Freight but they have them for $12.99. Just Bing Harbor Freight Coupons and get 10% off. I had some butts that were 22' long and about 30" in diameter that were off of the ground for over a year. White Oak. I split them and tested the moisture content on the inside portion of the split. It read about 35%. That dosen't sound like much, but they say your moisture content should be less then 20%. 35% is about 70% greater then 20%. It makes a difference. It takes 1,000 btu's to boil off 1 lb of moisture. Heat lost. They say White Oak takes 2 years to season in Indiana after being split and stacked.


 
Again, the key is getting it busted open ASAP and allow it plenty of air circulation and sunshine!


----------



## philwillmt

philwillmt said:


> Thanks Tom! I ALWAYS prefer to assemble my own stuff...I KNOW it is done correctly that way, and it also allows me to become familiar with the mechanics of the unit prior to using it. I'm currently working this issue with SpeeCo. I hope to get the issue resolved and the splitter in service very soon, as I have lots of wood just waiting to be split!



Well, I got my replacement flywheels yesterday, and I got my new SpeeCo splitter put back together today and test ran it. The replacement flywheels did the trick...the bouncing and lope are way better! There is minimal vibration and movement when the splitter is running, and it's certailnly tollerable! I split about two cords of wood today with it, and man is it fast! We'll see how long it holds up...hopefully a long, long time! The technical support I received from SpeeCo and TSC was very good. They got my parts to me within a week. They were also nice enough to send me some extra hardware and a couple of spare belts. Thanks Ron and Josh! Much appreciated!


----------



## Mntn Man

EXCALIBER said:


> Mntn Man where are you finding oak at in Nebraska? I have only found elm, cottonwood, pine, and a very little black walnut (like one tree). As far as the problem for space to store it that is easy I have plenty of room right here with a little over 4 acres you can dump any of that nasty, hard to dry out, not even worth messing with, oak on my place anytime you want. After all I want to be neighborly



There are a few creek drainages around here with native bur oaks. I never thought I would be able to hook up with any, but my job as a fuel hauler brings me in contact with many farmers. I have scored oak from 2 of them. This is the second tree from this guy. It washed out and fell in the creek and he was worried about it creating a dam. He was thankful that I came to help him get it out of the creek even though we broke a chain and it went through the back window of his backhoe. I hauled about 1.5 cords home. There is around 1.25 cords still there, but I ran out of steam and it is big stuff. Some of it was from the first tree he gave me last year. There is some of that one left, but I am done with it. It was a 40 inch diameter monster and what is left is mostly crotchy, nasty, big stuff. I am just throwing it in the yard until I can move some stuff around and stack it. This wood is so heavy! I wish it was ash, lol!


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## Dozer Man

Seasoning Firewood ??? Sounds like a good topic for a new thread to me !! Not trying to deter good conversation...just saying.


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## TFPace

Dozer Man said:


> Seasoning Firewood ??? Sounds like a good topic for a new thread to me !! Not trying to deter good conversation...just saying.


 
Dozer, I hear what you are saying. It's not just you :smile2:

We need some SpeedPro buyer to join in the fun.


----------



## Dozer Man

Hey Phil, 
I'm glad you got things going!!! Glad to hear Speeco is taking care of there customers (and tsc). Happy splitting!!!

TFPace,
No kidding, bring in some more "new owners" too. I'm curious to what everyone has to say about there Speedpro. I love splitting with mine. 

Just tried "noodling" some pin oak rounds that were 22" to 30" at butt end. It went faster than I thought it would. I got some 36"+ (at the butt) red oak I'm gonna have to tackle soon. Not sure whether to noodle(quarter?) or roll up on the old hydro to quarter. Either way, even with our old hydro (horiz. only that sits on the ground) I will be just quartering for the Speedpro to finish. It will be much faster that way. Our hydro is fast, we hook hydraulics to 145hp dozer, but not fast like the speedpro. 

Big plus to me is NOT having to work bent over or on my knees. I'll pick rounds up and split standing up all day and still be able to stand up straight at the end of the day. My friends vert. hydro used to seem like the way to go, till I tried to stand up!! 60 min. splitting with splitter in vert. position... it would take me 30 min. just to be able to stand up straight afterword. 

Another small plus I've found...It seems that, for the most part anyways, the Speedpro "slices" through most of the knots. Where the hydros seem to force the splits apart, slowly, these kinetic splitters just slice through. I'm sure its the narrow wedge and the speed that its hit. It doesn't seem like a big deal, until you start stacking the wood. It makes for a lot neater stack this way, fewer knots sticking out to disrupt the stack.

Just some thoughts,
dm


----------



## Como

I went past their offices on Friday, so stopped into to see if they have a showroom, they do not.

They gave me a list of their local dealers so I shall call and see how much, but would have been nice to see one.


----------



## Orange Hill

I think I am going to get one after Christmas. I was going to build a new splitter to get more speed, but if I start from the ground up with new components I think I would end up spending more then the cost of the Speeco. I currently have a 22 ton hydraulic vertical/horizontal splitter that will work for the mean time. I have a very comfortable light folding chair that I use when I vertically split large oak and eucalyptus so I have few of those bending over issues, it just takes too long. It is usually faster to use the Fiskers splitting ax on large straight grain euc.

Just a question how do I get 20% seasoned wood when I am less then 10 miles from the ocean and the humidity is usually over 50%? I need to get out my moisture meter to see what my two year old oak is.


----------



## Como

Orange Hill said:


> Just a question how do I get 20% seasoned wood when I am less then 10 miles from the ocean and the humidity is usually over 50%? I need to get out my moisture meter to see what my two year old oak is.



Move?

I would happily swap nut the distance would be an issue.

The highest I have ever registered was low 20's.

After 2 years I am in single digits.

I forgot to mention, you can only get it at TSC, an exclusive.

No TSC near me.


----------



## tnttreeman

*Returned the SpeedPro*

I didn't go through all 18 pages of this thread, only about a third of them. I will share my Speeco SpeedPro experience with you. I did the research and stumbled on the Speeco splitter going into one of the four local TSC stores that are near me. I couldn't believe the price when I saw it and bought mine on the spot. That was September 16th. In fact, the district manager spoke with me later on and said that I was the first one to buy one in his district. 
Three days ago and about 30 cord of wood later, I returned the machine to TSC and got a refund of my money. I loved the machine when I first got it. There was nothing that it wouldn't split and fast! However, being pleased with the machine was short lived. Within a couple days, the two handed operation got to be annoying. It was minor and I could deal with it, but there were other issues. Next was the wobbling of the flywheels. The machine vibrates like crazy! You have to have it firmly blocked, or it will shimmy right past the chocks. Smaller logs bounce so much they won't stay in place on the splitter and have to be split on our hydraulic machine. But, even this was minor and could be dealt with. The next issue came with the centrifugal clutch. We had a bunch of really knotty wood to split and it slowed the engine down a number of times. Each time was accompanied by serious squealing coming from the clutch area. I assumed it to be the belts, shut the machine off and checked. Nope, belts are tight. The squealing was from the clutch. Now I'm getting worried. I just spent $1801.99 after tax, thinking I had gotten a great deal at a grand less than the Super Split. Then came the real deal breaker. Three teeth on the rack where it initially meets the pinion rounded off and one halfway back the rack sheared off. So, back to TSC the machine went. Fortunately I got an understanding manager and he waived the 30 day return policy after hearing what all was going on. 
46 days I owned the machine and split with it less than half of those. Looks like Speeco has some bugs to work out if they want these machines to last in the long haul. Also looks like I'll be spending the extra money and buying a SS.


----------



## genesis5521

tnttreeman said:


> Looks like Speeco has some bugs to work out if they want these machines to last in the long haul. Also looks like I'll be spending the extra money and buying a SS.



I checked out the SpeedPro at my local TSC, and it looked really nice. Price was nice to. I almost bought it on the spot. But I didn't. It was posts like the above that made me hold back, and I'm glad I did. Then I checked out the Split-Fire at Splitfire Wood Splitters - Splitfire Wood Splitter Review They run about $2600.00. Splitting in both directions seems like the natural way to split. It seems to require less movement then the SuperSplit. And it doesn't seem to require the operator to work "quickly" like the SuperSplit does. You gotta be "fast" to operate the SuperSplit efficiently. I don't like to work that fast. But hey. That's just me, and I'm getting old (65).

Don <><


----------



## CampHamp

tnttreeman said:


> Three teeth on the rack where it initially meets the pinion rounded off and one halfway back the rack sheared off.



Sorry to hear you had these issues. Your TSC manager could have just got it fixed it for you. Pretty cool he took it back.

Do you have any theories about if it is the design, bad material or how you were operating it that made the teeth get rounded/broken?

For example, I guess the broken tooth in the middle would have failed in the midst of a split. So was that just a real hard piece of wood and the lever wasn't sensitive enough to release? As you split the hard stuff, did the mechanism ever release itself or would it just strain until you pulled the lever back yourself?

Did you hear a lot of grinding when you pulled the handle? Did you often run the engine at full throttle?

Hope you have better luck with your next machine.


----------



## 76mark

I've had my SpeedPro for about 2 week, split less than 3 cords, and just ripped 4 teeth off the rack. I purchased the extended warranty just for this reason, so I'll see how well the repair goes. When it's working the splitters impressive, but the quality may be an issue.


----------



## nysparkie

76mark said:


> I've had my SpeedPro for about 2 week, split less than 3 cords, and just ripped 4 teeth off the rack. I purchased the extended warranty just for this reason, so I'll see how well the repair goes. When it's working the splitters impressive, but the quality may be an issue.



I posted some Reviews off the TSC Site on the Speedco. There were enough to give me pause. I spent the xtra $$$ and purchased the NEW DR RadipFire. Haven't had a single issue. Haven't been happier. I stopped posting here for someone thought this thread should be only for Speedco Splitters but I kept on reading here anyhow. So sorry you learned by going the bargain road. Sometimes it just can't payoff in the long or even short run. SuperSplit has been around a very long time and the rep is outstanding. I went with Country Home Products for I have other items from them and swear by those. Their tech support is the best, I got a 3 year warranty. I have the right to refuse this Splitter after one year of use. Cost of shipping to send it back.... I got 500$ off the normal list price. All of that works for me.
:bang:


----------



## sunfish

genesis5521 said:


> And it doesn't seem to require the operator to work "quickly" like the SuperSplit does. You gotta be "fast" to operate the SuperSplit efficiently. I don't like to work that fast. But hey. That's just me, and I'm getting old (65).
> 
> Don <><



Don, no need to work quick with a Super Split. It splits quick, but you can load it and pull the trigger at your leisure.


----------



## sunfish

I believe the problems with the TSC Speedco / Speedpro splitters is the origin of manufacture.


----------



## nysparkie

sunfish said:


> I believe the problems with the TSC Speedco / Speedpro splitters is the origin of manufacture.



No counter argument to that


----------



## sunfish

nysparkie said:


> No counter argument to that



Ya just can't beat *Made in the USA * :msp_smile:


----------



## 76mark

TSC just replaced my SpeedPro tonight. I hope to have better luck with this one.

On another note, I attempted to get the old splitter fixed using the extended service plan and wasn't able to get it into the shop for 5 days. From the looks of it service won't be quick if something breaks.


----------



## KiwiBro

sunfish said:


> Ya just can't beat *Made in the USA * :msp_smile:


Or at the very least, some robust QC in USA rather than relying upon customers being the QC of last resort.
Heck, against the total cost of each shipment, it wouldn't be that hard to independently test and QC as part of the LC terms before a bill of lading is even issued and the goods even make it on the boat.
It's somewhat incompetent or inconsiderate really. They've rolled the dice without testing, and/or decided to proceed in the absence of said testing being available, and/or haven't adequately sampled and tested locally upon arrival, and/or specified less than optimal components, and/or failed to educate vendors how to QC adequately, etc, etc.

I wonder if the level of warranty costs factored into their original costings are somewhat lower than what seems to be happening, and whether the margin they are getting is enough to adequately live with it.

Someone on here has a saying in their signature along the lines of good tools costing money and cheap tools costing much more.


----------



## MNGuns

Starting to look like the cows have come home.....


opcorn:


----------



## tnttreeman

CampHamp said:


> Sorry to hear you had these issues. Your TSC manager could have just got it fixed it for you. Pretty cool he took it back.
> 
> Do you have any theories about if it is the design, bad material or how you were operating it that made the teeth get rounded/broken?
> 
> For example, I guess the broken tooth in the middle would have failed in the midst of a split. So was that just a real hard piece of wood and the lever wasn't sensitive enough to release? As you split the hard stuff, did the mechanism ever release itself or would it just strain until you pulled the lever back yourself?
> 
> Did you hear a lot of grinding when you pulled the handle? Did you often run the engine at full throttle?
> 
> Hope you have better luck with your next machine.



I don't think it's the design, other than you really have to push down on the engaging lever to keep it started. I think that the steel on the rack may not be hardened enough or it needs to be made out of a different alloy.

The piece on which the tooth actually sheared off on was knot free and the next log that I put on is when it wouldn't split. Where the tooth sheared off at in relation to the log is just where the rack would've started to push the log into the wedge. The rack came out, touched the log and then wouldn't disengage automatically because the pinion wasn't actually engaging the rack. There was grinding at that point, but the tooth was already gone.

As far as the machine being repaired, that's great as long as the warranty lasts. However, I plan on having a splitter far longer than the warranty period so it needs to not be breaking major components. And, down time for me in firewood season can cost me more in a couple days than the cost of the machine. That is not an option.

I'll most likely end up with a Super Split. I know 2 guys with them and they're happy as can be. One has had his machine for 20+ years and it's still going strong. And most everyone on here holds the same opinion on their machines. I am, however, tossing the idea around of hooking up a 3 point style splitter to my skid loader and seeing what sort of cycle/production times come from it. I have a fairly large machine with high flow hydraulics and should turn out some pretty fast numbers.


----------



## Dalmatian90

> I have a fairly large machine with high flow hydraulics and should turn out some pretty fast numbers.



I'm thinking that would turn out some pretty fast numbers in fuel consumption too, compared to a Super Split.

Let's throw out 2 numbers I'm not positive on but I think are in the ballpark -- 2 gallons/ 8 hour day for the Super Split, 12 gallons / 8 hour day for a Bobcat in "light" work.

1-1/2 cords per hour, 150 cords per year...I'm coming up with an extra $656/year for the Bobcat setup.

Assuming $800 for a three point splitter and $2800 for the Super Splitter, that's less then four year payback. 

I think the 3 points are great for folks who have modest annual splitting needs and don't want to have to worry about another motor to maintain. I just doubt there the right solution for high-production operations.

Besides, you'll need the skid steer to pile up the volume of wood coming off the Super Split


----------



## Dozer Man

tnttreeman said:


> I don't think it's the design, other than you really have to push down on the engaging lever to keep it started. I think that the steel on the rack may not be hardened enough or it needs to be made out of a different alloy.
> 
> The piece on which the tooth actually sheared off on was knot free and the next log that I put on is when it wouldn't split. Where the tooth sheared off at in relation to the log is just where the rack would've started to push the log into the wedge. The rack came out, touched the log and then wouldn't disengage automatically because the pinion wasn't actually engaging the rack. There was grinding at that point, but the tooth was already gone.
> 
> As far as the machine being repaired, that's great as long as the warranty lasts. However, I plan on having a splitter far longer than the warranty period so it needs to not be breaking major components. And, down time for me in firewood season can cost me more in a couple days than the cost of the machine. That is not an option.




Tnttreeman, 
Still curious as to whether your speedpro, when it came up against a round that it wouldn't split, would it stop splitting and return, or would it stall and hold there until you released it?? I mean under normal use, not just when it broke. I'm also curious at what throttle setting you used...did you use full wide open throttle all the time??? Partial throttle???
Not saying you were doing anything wrong, just curious for reference to future use of my own. If there's issues that can be prevented I'd like to know. I'd be very greatful for your insight, as return is probly not an option for me. I do sell some firewood but not for a living. I burn 3-4 cord/yr. and sell maybe 8-10 cord. That's a hobbyist compared to a lot of you. 

With the un-towability of the SS, and it's knock off the DR, and my lack of funds ($1k diff +/-), I chose the speedpro kinetic over a hydro unit. I've read about break down issues with new hydro units too, and not just speeco either. So I was darned if I do, darned if I don't. So far it sounds to me like speeco and tsc are taking care of there issues though. Glad to hear that anyway. Curious to how many speedpro's tsc has sold compared to how many are having issues. 

Oh yeah, and fyi to all...
We're all guilty of buying equipment that either wasn't made, or parts there of weren't made, in the USA. Some things are made overseas then shipped to US and assembled. (where was your favorite saw,truck,tractor,etc., made??). I don't like it either, but it's the world we live in. Go to walmart and find twenty things that are made in the USA. Hard to do.. 

Sorry, just trying to climb out from under the bus...lol


----------



## TFPace

Dozer Man said:


> Tnttreeman,
> . Curious to how many speedpro's tsc has sold compared to how many are having issues.
> 
> Sorry, just trying to climb out from under the bus...lol



DozerMan,

I've thought the same as to the number sold by TSC. TSC has 1,054 stores in operating in the USA. Each store is supposed to receive two Speedpro's. That's a lot of machines. We'll have to see what happens on the rack and pinion and durability issues.

My machine is holding up fine but it's not getting daily use either. I have a large lot of oak coming up with in the month so that will be a good test.


----------



## peterc38

TFPace said:


> DozerMan,
> 
> I've thought the same as to the number sold by TSC. TSC has 1,054 stores in operating in the USA. Each store is supposed to receive two Speedpro's.



There may be more than that unless some stores aren't getting any because I saw 5 of these splitters at a TSC here, one display model and four addtional units in crates.


----------



## Ductape

And for the record, I know of TWO Super Splits here locally with teeth missing off the rack, and / or pinion. Not saying they aren't better......but they do suffer from failures also.


----------



## daleeper

peterc38 said:


> There may be more than that unless some stores aren't getting any because I saw 5 of these splitters at a TSC here, one display model and four addtional units in crates.



I know there are some stores that are not getting their 2 splitter allotment, as I went to one, and everyone in their district was to get them but them.


----------



## sunfish

Ductape said:


> And for the record, I know of TWO Super Splits here locally with teeth missing off the rack, and / or pinion. Not saying they aren't better......but they do suffer from failures also.



Bet they have a few more hours on them than the troubled speedpros. :msp_wink:


----------



## sunfish

Dozer Man said:


> Oh yeah, and fyi to all...
> We're all guilty of buying equipment that either wasn't made, or parts there of weren't made, in the USA. Some things are made overseas then shipped to US and assembled. (where was your favorite saw,truck,tractor,etc., made??). I don't like it either, but it's the world we live in. Go to walmart and find twenty things that are made in the USA. Hard to do..
> 
> Sorry, just trying to climb out from under the bus...lol



You are right, but I try hard to buy USA, whenever I have the choice. Most of us do. 

I also don't have a problem with most imported stuff, but I do have a problem with 'Made in China' for obvious reasons.


----------



## Dozer Man

*No argument...*



sunfish said:


> You are right, but I try hard to buy USA, whenever I have the choice. Most of us do.
> 
> I also don't have a problem with most imported stuff, but I do have a problem with 'Made in China' for obvious reasons.



I can't argue with you on the "made in china". Except when $1000-1300 is coming out of my pocket on a relatively small purchase as a log splitter. And I did support local business too. I would have got the SS if I had the extra money, but the speedpro was in my budget for a portable splitter and it was towable. Lots of issues to weigh, but if money were no issue, I def woud have gone with the SS over the DR. I don't like copycats either. And I don't know where DR gets there hard parts either, they don't brag about "made in the USA" much. At least speeco changed enough things to make a difference, to me anyways, to not be called out right copycats. 

I don't like buying "made in china" either, but on the other hand, I don't like being broke...


----------



## sunfish

Dozer Man said:


> I can't argue with you on the "made in china". Except when $1000-1300 is coming out of my pocket on a relatively small purchase as a log splitter. And I did support local businesses too. I would have got the SS if I had the extra money, but the speedpro was in my budget for a portable splitter and it was towable. Lots of issues to weigh, but if money were no issue, I def woud have gone with the SS over the DR. I don't like copycats either. And I don't know where DR gets there hard parts either, they don't brag about "made in the USA" much. At least speeco changed enough things to make a difference, to me anyways, to not be called out right copycats.
> 
> I don't like buying "made in china" either, but on the other hand, I don't like being broke...



Can't argue with ya there, man. We just got to do what we got to do. It's all good.


----------



## Dozer Man

sunfish said:


> Can't argue with ya there, man. We just got to do what we got to do. It's all good.



Yeppers!! Thanx man...


----------



## Como

SpeeCo made them specifically for TSC. 

Sounds like it is a metallurgical/QC issue and a relatively simple fix.


----------



## sunfish

If I had bought one of these, I'd be runnin it very hard about now.


Before the return period, or warranty is up...


----------



## CampHamp

*Too Fast?*

Do people think that the SpeedPro ram moves faster than the SS or DR machines? It looks like it moves much faster to me when I look at the videos.

Does this mean higher RPM's on the flywheels or different gearing?

If the flywheels are spinning faster then when it hits a tough knot and comes to a hard stop, then there will be more momentum in those wheels to stop. If it is the gearing that makes it move faster, then the SpeedPro wheels would have to come to a more abrupt stop for the same 1" of ram travel than its competitors' . Either way, there would be extra force on the teeth and I suspect this contributes to the missing teeth issue, too.

I would run this machine slow, especially with the harder stuff (which seems counter-intuitive).


----------



## Dalmatian90

> If the flywheels are spinning faster then when it hits a tough knot and comes to a hard stop, then there will be more momentum in those wheels to stop.



The rack should disengage first, and if it doesn't then the belts should slip. There's not a hard connection to the flywheels.


----------



## Cmccul8146

Dalmatian90 said:


> The rack should disengage first, and if it doesn't then the belts should slip. There's not a hard connection to the flywheels.



The rack should NOT disengage automatically, nor should the belts slip. That's what the centrifugal clutch is for. Hit a tough gnarly round that doesn't split, the clutch slips, rack travel stops, & you MANUALLY disengage the rack & pinion. Most any SS owner will tell you that these splitters don't automatically disengage the gears. The clutch should slip to prevent breaking teeth off the gears. TSC's problem sounds like it's either improperly tempered gears, or else there is too much clearance (backlash ) and the teeth are not engaging deep enough. 

A couple of years ago, a member here by the screen name of D'Angelo attempted to build a flywheel splitter ,and did a beautiful job with it. He later gave up on it saying it was like splitting with dynamite. Looking at his machine pics, & after building a SS copy myself, I have come to the conclusion that his whole problem was that he used # 60 chain & sprockets to drive his flywheels. Didn't have a clutch that I could see, but an idler pulley & lever to apply pressure to the belts & pulleys that drove his sprockets. No chance for any slippage when needed. From his posts, he busted a bunch of gears before giving up. Not sure if he's still amember here, but I believe if he'd put a clutch on his splitter he'd have a very good machine, & it was towable. Most any SS owner will tell you that these splitters don't automatically disengage the gears.

My bad! I think the screen name of the guy who built the chain driven splitter was D'Jango, rather then what I posted earlier. Believe he was a toolmaker by trade, and his machinework was top quality.


----------



## Dalmatian90

I'll be in the corner extracting my foot from mouth 

I should've listened to that little voice of doubt when I was typing that up...


----------



## CampHamp

Cmccul8146 said:


> Hit a tough gnarly round that doesn't split, the clutch slips .... The clutch should slip to prevent breaking teeth off the gears.






So are you saying that the wheels can spin if the rack comes to a quick stop? That kills my theory then, that higher wheel RPM would cause more force on the teeth when the ram stops short.


----------



## Dozer Man

CampHamp said:


> So are you saying that the wheels can spin if the rack comes to a quick stop? That kills my theory then, that higher wheel RPM would cause more force on the teeth when the ram stops short.



I believe Cmccul means that the ram and flywheels should stop when it stalls. At that point the centrifigul clutch will slip until you manually disengage the actuating lever. At least I hope this is what he is saying cuz that's what my spdpro does, anyways. 

I still think that running this machine at 1/2 or 2/3 throttle makes the engagement go alot easier. I got a lot of grief about not running full throttle earlier in this thread, but you don't need to imho. At half throttle it will still split the same as with full. If not, just hit it again. And yes I think the ram speed on the speedpro is faster than the DR and SS. Actually, if I thought that running this machine at a lower throttle setting was harming anything (there's no load unless it stalls which is rare), I would look into a gear ratio change. I believe I would have to buy a new centrifigul clutch with a different size pulley on it to slow the ram speed down. But like I've said, simply slowing the throttle down seems to work for mine. Not to mention, IMHO, this kohler engine at wide open throttle seems to wind up too high. Just my $.02

I'd still like to know how many units have had problems. Is it all of them? Some of them?? Very few of them??? Is there a problem with the forging? Engagement? Ram speed? Sorry, I'd rather find the problem and fix it if possible. These things look too simple to work on and the DR and SS are way out of my budget. 

Remember... Good news travels fast... But BAD NEWS TRAVELS FASTER!!! 

How bout it BSD, how is yours running. And yours TFPace?? Is anyone not having trouble?


----------



## Cmccul8146

Camp, when the rack stops, the flywheels stop too. The engine will still be running at whatever speed you were running it, but the CLUTCH is slipping to prevent breaking the gears . Ever looked inside a centrifugal clutch off a go-cart? They are spring loaded to engage by centrifugal force at a specific rpm & that's what turns the flywheels. If the rack suddenly stops, the flywheels do too, & this overcomes that centrifugal force & makes the clutch slip. If the clutch doesn't slip, you are going to break gears. When I was building my splitter, Paul at SS told me it's a good idea to occasionally squirt a little WD-40on the clutch shoes ,as that will help them to slip when needed.

My splitter , while basically the same principal as the SS & DR, is geared quite differently. They both have a solid pinion shaft with the teeth machined into it. I think their shaft is a 2 inch diameter, with a pinion pitch diameter of 1.500 inches or less. SS flywheels run at 300 rpm & DR run at 400. Both have two 72 lb. flywheels. My rack gear is a Martin 6 DP & pinion is a Martin S-615 spur gear. This S-615 has a pitch diameter of 2.500 inches, & my rack moves 7.854 inches for one full turn of the flywheels. Due to this difference in gear ratio , I made two 102 lb. flywheels, and run my engine at about 2000 rpm.

I don't intend to sound like a "know it all" about these flywheel splitters, but as someone who has actually built one that has been running almost 2 years now, I do feel that I have a pretty good knowledge of what makes them tick. I saw Paul from SS demo both gas & electric models 5 years ago , looked them over carefully & burned the image into my memory . He also let me take 3 pics while he had the covers off. I own & operate a small machine shop, & had to try to build one just for my personal satisfaction. Built it without any drawings or blueprints whatsoever. 

As per my earlier post about TSC gear problems being either improperly tempered or gear clearance ( backlash ) not properly set, I speak from experience. A few months after I finished it , one day I broke 4 or 5 teeth off my pinion gear. When I replaced it, I did some checking & did not have gears nearly fully meshed. Simple fix, just made bigger roller on the cam that pushes the rack down onto the pinion. Once I got my gears set to engage at the proper depth, I've had no problems with it at all. Mine is towable behind my MF135 tractor or garden tractor, but I've never pulled more than 2 miles behind the MF135. Usually just move it from the shop to the yard to split. 

There has also been a lot of comments about the price difference between the TSC splitter and the SS & DR. Everyone knows that AMERICAN LABOR costs cannot compete with those of China. Chinese materials are cheaper too, but so is the quality of those materials. As a small job shop owner, I know for a fact that a small business cannot buy materials, such as steel, for the same price as a big corporation because of "quantity discounts". These discounts alone probably are the difference in the price of the SS & DR machines. 

Never seen anything but the SS & my homebuilt, but have seen the videos. With the exception of the cam, the log guides, & "wheelbarrow handles" the DR looks to be an exact copy of the SS, and has an extremely good warranty if they actually honor it. Quite a bit of difference in the SpeedPro, including log cradle & towable. For what it's worth, if I were going to buy , it would be a Super Split. Paul has been building very high quality machines for a long time, & I'm sure he will continue to do so. If you're still planning to buy a flywheel splitter, remember this, 
"The Bitterness of Poor Quality Lingers After the Sweetness of a Low Price is Long Forgotten".

Dozer Man, your right on in what I meant. If the rack stops & the flywheels don't, something's going to break!!!!! As far as running yours at 1/2 to 2/3 throttle, that's what I do with my homebuilt splitter too due to the pinion gear pitch diameter that I'm running. You are also right about slowing the flywheels by using a smaller clutch pulley. My clutch pulley already is only 2 inch diameter, & with the belt I'm running deep in the groove, it's like Ihave about a 1 1/2 inch pulley. Don't have any idea about the size of the pulley or flywheel size on the SpeedPro. Good splitting to you, BSD ,TFPace & others who have bought the SpeedPro.


----------



## TFPace

*Update from NC*

My SpeedPro is doing fine.

I can't say that I haven't looked up under the guard for a tooth of metal though.

BSD had mentioned that he had to re-tighten the clutch bolt. I checked mine and it was OK.The motor alignment was a little off on these my machine and causes some "hop" after I squared it up I was OK.

I appreciate learning about oiling the clutch with WD-40. That's a good idea.

I came across a YouTube on a guy splitting a 30" oak round on his SS. He used a hydraulic grapple to place it and it took multiple cycles to split. My point being if you have some that big use your hydraulic machine.
I don't know if the repeated cycles into that large of piece of oak is good bad or indifferent. Its the time wasted in setting it up and then once it's split it nearly turns your splitter over from the excess weight.


----------



## Dozer Man

*Is slow better??*

After reading most of this thread again, I still can't help but wonder if speeco doesn't have this machine geared wrong. I don't know the flywheel speed but I would bet, at full throttle anyways, that it is faster than dr and ss. I've determined that from studying ram speeds on youtube videos of the DR, SS, and the speedpro. From watching the videos, imho, it looks like the DR has the slowest ram speed, with the SS second to slowest. And then it looks like the spdpro is a lot faster than both. 

It really didn't take much operation on my part to figure out that full throttle is not needed. And also, that the engagement of the rack and pinion was a lot easier at partial throttle, no grinding, no missfires, and it took a lot less effert to engage. 

Cmccul8146,
As you've built your own, you would probly be a good one to ask this question... If i wanted to slow down the flywheel speed (which in turn would slow down the ramspeed), would I need a bigger pulley or a smaller pulley on the clutch?? As I've said before, I have no problem running a slower engine speed to accomplish the same thing, not to mention fuel savings. Just curious to your opinion. And buying the SS was not an option for me. I don't have that kind of money. Also,imho, I think your input in this thread is greatly appreciated by all. Thanks. 

To me it was a choice between speedpro kinetic and a 28ton speeco vert/horiz hydro machine(only brand local at bigR and tsc). Everybody quickly throws us under the bus for buying the SpeedPro without considering the fact that some of us don't have the extra $1300 to buy the SS. I had a long conversation with Paul @ SS before making my decision, he actually understood my dilemma. I needed a new splitter and had a budget for it... Plain and simple...and I'm still happy with my decision.


----------



## BSD

Dozer Man said:


> How bout it BSD, how is yours running.


we were slammed with a noreaster last week but one of my guys was splitting with it saturday for a couple hours after we started getting caught up. no problems other than my handle extension needs minor re-enforcing. After the broken teeth post last week I went and checked my unit carefully. So far, no signs of worn teeth on the rack or the pinion gear. We've split about 12 full cord with it now. should have plenty more to do after cleanup of storm alfred is done.

also, about the sudden ram stops. these units will disengage mid-travel if they hit something really hard. all that forward motion is transferred into an upward motion on the rack which will disengage the ram from the pinion gear. At least mine will. not sure if any of my mods have changed this behavior. I have also seen my unit slip the clutch when a knot is encountered in the middle of the piece.


----------



## CampHamp

Cmccul8146 said:


> Camp, when the rack stops, the flywheels stop too. The engine will still be running at whatever speed you were running it, but the CLUTCH is slipping to prevent breaking the gears.



Thanks, CM and DozerMan, for all this insight.  Previously, I thought CM was saying that the clutch would avoid transferring the flywheel "stored energy" to the rack. I get it - the clutch prevents the engine from adding too much force to a stopped flywheel (what I thought initially).

What I am talking about is different though: The kinetic force stored in the flywheels (take the engine out of the picture entirely - just picture the wheels spinning under their own momentum with no engine attached).

If you were to double the RPM's of a SS machine's flywheels to 600 RPM's and sent that ram into a brick wall, then what would happen? My guess is that you'd have the same symptoms that SpeedPro users are seeing. You would grind gears on engagement and you'd loose teeth upon the strike.

My hope is that excessive flywheel RPM's is the major contributor to the problem, because the solution is simple and within the grasp of all owners - they would just need to run at half-throttle like DozerMan does. And as he suggests as well, the engagement is also cleaner with less grinding (and less wear and the gears and less force needed on that bendable plunger rod*).


*I did mention earlier, when I looked at one of these at my local TSC, that the demo failed because the engagement was not deep into the teeth and even light force would cause the auto-disengagement that DozerMan just described. In that case, the cause was that the rod that connects the handle to the engagement mechanism had bent (from being forced down hard by the operator, I guess) and so it wouldn't push the rack fully onto the pinion.


----------



## tnxm

So far so good 5 plus cords stacked and ready to burn, took it out in the woods had an "incident", splitter jack knives, got a little banged up( Gas tank dented, scratches, lots of cuss words). Rolled it over when straight home and drained the oil on it, gonna change it tmrw and hope everything is okay... Main concern is the engine is way out line now, second concern is when it rolled it went 360 degrees and hoping the force didnt break something in the engagement action. Guess I may be the first poor sap to find out this things crash test rating. You dont have to tell me im an idiot I already know lol


----------



## Dozer Man

tnxm said:


> So far so good 5 plus cords stacked and ready to burn, took it out in the woods had an "incident", splitter jack knives, got a little banged up( Gas tank dented, scratches, lots of cuss words). Rolled it over when straight home and drained the oil on it, gonna change it tmrw and hope everything is okay... Main concern is the engine is way out line now, second concern is when it rolled it went 360 degrees and hoping the force didnt break something in the engagement action. Guess I may be the first poor sap to find out this things crash test rating. You dont have to tell me im an idiot I already know lol



Lol, I would think you should be fine doing what you are doing. Hopefully you can adjust the engine back into line with out too much trouble. I once forgot to shut the tailgate and lost a "whacker" vibratory hand compactor, at 60mph!!
I heard it slide out and got to watch it hit the road and bounce 20 feet into the air. Luckily it landed and tumbled to a stop in a bean field. Loaded it up, took back to shop, straightened the handle, checked the oil, hit the choke and she fired on the first pull. She still runs fine today, just looks a little beat up though.

Hopefully you don't have to break out the hammer and the blue wrench (torch) !!! 
Good luck and keep us posted!!!


----------



## Jester3775

*New guy*

Hi, new to this forum and having fun reading this thread about SpeedPro splitter. My limited experience includes having bought one last week. Brought it home and had a friend looking at it in the garage and he noticed the engine was radically out of line with flywheel. We looked at how to adjust and there was no way to do it, (without cutting and welding)
Motor literally had to move 1" sideways to line up properly. Talk about lack of quality control. I ended up returning it and grabbed the only other one they had at TSC. To tell you the truth, that one isn't quite right either but I believe it is "good enough" Also noticed that yes the engagement of rack and pinion is way quieter ? at half throttle or so vs full throttle. Upon looking at it with covers off I am convinced that there has to be some "gear grinding" at any speed though, whether we hear it or not. I mean what are we really doing ? Taking a rotating gear and forcing it into a stationary rack. No clutch to help with engagement. Makes me wonder how any of these last long term, but apparently they do ? (Some models ?)


----------



## D&B Mack

Jester3775 said:


> Taking a rotating gear and forcing it into a stationary rack. *No clutch *to help with engagement. Makes me wonder how any of these last long term, but apparently they do ? (Some models ?)



I don't think you could really have one beyond the belt. This would reduce the force placed on the round when contacted and limit your splitting ability. Just like anything else it is a wear part. The question is, how long of wear will it take?


----------



## Jester3775

D&B Mack said:


> I don't think you could really have one beyond the belt. This would reduce the force placed on the round when contacted and limit your splitting ability. Just like anything else it is a wear part. The question is, how long of wear will it take?



I take it you mean the belt as the clutch ?
Yeah not sure there is anything to do about it, Its just when I was thinking about how it actually works it kind of blows my mind. (jamming gears together)
I wonder if an electric clutch like on air conditioning in a car and or on commercial mowers for blades.....................

 and curious


----------



## Cmccul8146

Jester3775 Upon looking at it with covers off I am convinced that there has to be some "gear grinding" at any speed though said:


> Jester, there is a clutch on the engine for driving the flywheels. There is very little
> "grinding the gears" if the backlsah is set correctly. The reason they don't grind, is that the rotating pinion gear is mounted in bearings & does not move, only rotates. When you engage the gears, the movable rack gear, starts moving the instant the teeth engage enough for contact with the pinion teeth. As you fully push or pull the lever you get full tooth contact & complete the cycle. One quick push or pull & it's engaged. You might get some gear grinding if you're too slow on the handle. By the way, you surely don't want to put an electric clutch on these machines. They are not designed to slip easily like centrifugal clutches, & you'll break teeth every time you hit a knotty, gnarly round.


----------



## pops21

Well I just got back from tractor supply and found out the speedpro has a RECALL. They pulled the display to the back and were told not to sell another one till further notice. I read the recall paper they had printed off and it had something to do with the teeth being to small on the ram. It said right on the paper to offer FULL refund on ALL speedpro's sold. The manager said he saw this comming. He said too many customers mentioned after seeing the video that it could really hurt someone with the speed and got a hydro instead.

We ended up getting a 22T huskee.:msp_biggrin:


----------



## D&B Mack

Jester3775 said:


> I take it you mean the belt as the clutch ?
> Yeah not sure there is anything to do about it, Its just when I was thinking about how it actually works it kind of blows my mind. (jamming gears together)
> I wonder if an electric clutch like on air conditioning in a car and or on commercial mowers for blades.....................
> 
> and curious



What I meant was: the clutch is between the motor and the belt. Couldn't have one in the series of mechanics beyond the belt because you would lose too much force instantly upon impact. The belt, rack and pinion are all made to take this abuse, motor is not so the clutch will protect it. But if you put some sort of clutch beyond that point, it would slip too soon.


----------



## KiwiBro

pops21 said:


> Well I just got back from tractor supply and found out the speedpro has a RECALL.


Wow. Someone's backside will be taking some heat over this.


----------



## ultrahd2000

just checked our store and they didnt know anything about a recall and speed pro website has no info. Be nice to get to bottom of this.


----------



## Dozer Man

*recall*

Called 2 tsc stores, one had sold no speedpros and the other had only sold mine. Both said they had a stop sale on new units until further notice. They told me it was a gear/teeth issue or something of that sorts. They were to offer a full refund for all units experiencing this problem. I'll call speeco tomorrow for more insight...


----------



## MNGuns

opcorn:


----------



## TFPace

*To return or not to return*

This saga keeps getting better and better.

With my handle modification I doubt they'll take it back. An hour or three and I'd it looking factory.The problem with mine is that I have had zero problems. The recall that SpeeCo has implemented is a smart one albeit a pricey one too.
I registered my machine online and haven't heard from them. I probably will not hear unless I complain of problems?

What sucks is that this is a great machine. Sadly, it's was one of the few that left the factory properly assembled.


----------



## Mntn Man

TFPace said:


> This saga keeps getting better and better.
> 
> With my handle modification I doubt they'll take it back. An hour or three and I'd it looking factory.The problem with mine is that I have had zero problems. The recall that SpeeCo has implemented is a smart one albeit a pricey one too.
> I registered my machine online and haven't heard from them. I probably will not hear unless I complain of problems?
> 
> What sucks is that this is a great machine. Sadly, it's was one of the few that left the factory properly assembled.



They will take it back. They don't want the liability out there. I saw today that the one at our local store is still sitting out front. I should go buy it.:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Dozer Man

*I hear ya...*



TFPace said:


> This saga keeps getting better and better.
> 
> With my handle modification I doubt they'll take it back. An hour or three and I'd it looking factory.The problem with mine is that I have had zero problems. The recall that SpeeCo has implemented is a smart one albeit a pricey one too.
> I registered my machine online and haven't heard from them. I probably will not hear unless I complain of problems?
> 
> What sucks is that this is a great machine. Sadly, it's was one of the few that left the factory properly assembled.



Curious to what they will change or replace (drive pulley?? throttle reduction?? rack/pinion?? linkage?? whole thing??). Hopefully they had a plan in mind before they made it official (and get it right the 1st time). I've only got 3+ cord so far. Been to busy to use it. Except in short spurts, can't split after dark and don't want to in the rain. 

:eek2::msp_confused::eek2:

(make that 4+cord...just measured my ricks/stacks)


----------



## fox2

*Recall*

I have been using my splitter (and breaking it apparently) and thus have delveloped a contact at Speeco. My splitter is at the shop now being repaired. For all those interested, this is offically a stop sale, not arecall. Speeco has seemingly discovered the issue causing the broken teeth. They are having each splitter repaired individually. The 'recall' seems to be an internal correspondence from TSC to cover their butts for liability. Each store should be (once the ball gets rolliing) sending each unit to a repair facility locally on Speeco's dime, then they SHOULD get all the units back and begin selling them again. Mine is at the shop now sort of 'overriding' the store safety measure so when I get it back in a week or two (hopefully) I can post their 'fix' for the teeth issue. Mine had a couple of other issues that need fixing as well. 
I did confirm with Speeco, however, that this is a stop sale not a recall and any refund being given is at the discression of TSC. If you like your Speedpro, call Speeco and see if you can keep it and have it fixed. They should just tell you to drop it off at a local facility for it to be fixed. 
I know for sure I CAN NOT go back to splitting with a hydraulic splitter so I am just going to wait it out and hope for the best. If this does not work out I may just upgrade to a DR Rapid Fire or Super Splitter but for the price I hope Speeco can rectify the situation.


----------



## salto_jorge

Due to the higher kinetic energy, one would assume that the rack plus any of its small parts are taking a lot of abuse.

I have tightned the bold holding the front spring steel strap a few times on the front of the rack.

I wonder if modifications would void any of the warranties ?

I tweaked mine and added some extra nuts/bolts to hold the cover together better, so it would not have an issue towing at down the highway at 55+. Another note is that you may want to use a bungee cord to hold the rack handle down when towing so the rack is not bouncing and hitting the pinion, noticed that at 45mph on a dirt road.

PS: Running the engine at 1/2 to 3/4 throttle slows down the kinetic energy thus the speed that the rack lunges out of the clamshell at.


----------



## TFPace

*Type of repair*

Fox2,

Did your contact tell you what exactly the repair consists of? 

I am all about them making the improvement my keeping the splitter.

I just returned from TSC that I bought my machine from and the manager was a little vague. He opened up the page for the "stop-sale" bulletin on the splitter and did mention that it was not recall too.

He said for me to keep using it and I would hear from TSC about what to do.


----------



## Dozer Man

*I feel better...*



TFPace said:


> Fox2,
> 
> Did your contact tell you what exactly the repair consists of?
> 
> I am all about them making the improvement my keeping the splitter.
> 
> I just returned from TSC that I bought my machine from and the manager was a little vague. He opened up the page for the "stop-sale" bulletin on the splitter and did mention that it was not recall too.
> 
> He said for me to keep using it and I would hear from TSC about what to do.



Talked to the tech. serv. rep. from speeco today. He said that speeco has only issued a stop sale for now. Not a recall. Any recall or refund offer is strictly through TSC. The rack is the issue. More than likely they are gonna replace all the racks (poor heat treat issues...where have we heard that). He said they will probly replace the ones on unsold machines and then either replace, or hopefully just send a replacement, for all sold units. He assured me that speeco wants to rectify this issue in a timely manner and keep all of us happy. Speeco sells a lot of splitters, they don't want to tarnish their name. He made me feel pretty good about it.


----------



## TFPace

*Great news*

DozerMan,

Thank you sir for the update. I couldn't agree more that SpeeCo understands the seriousness of getting this issue resolved not to mention that TSC is most likely their #1 retail partner too.

Heat treat issues don't surprise me either. The TSC manager mentioned the "repair center" in my area would make the mod. This is a local two man shop that does warranty work for Lowes & Home Depot I would just assume do my own R/R but I bet that will not happen.

Thanks,

Tom


----------



## Dozer Man

TFPace said:


> Heat treat issues don't surprise me either. The TSC manager mentioned the "repair center" in my area would make the mod. This is a local two man shop that does warranty work for Lowes & Home Depot I would just assume do my own R/R but I bet that will not happen.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Tom



Ya I agree, the "repair center" closest to me is just a little lawm mower repair shop. Nothing against them at all, but I'm sure they have never seen a kinetic splitter, let alone worked on one. We have more experience with them than they do. But, they need to learn too, there's not much to these machines. It would be nice to just have the part in hand and fix it myself (i'd enjoy it as i'm sure you would too). We can hope for it though.


----------



## fox2

*Repair*

As mentioned/suspected, it is a heat treating issue, which I confirmed with Speeco this morning. Basically the repair consists of replacing the rack with a better one which means basically taking out a bolt so even if a shop has never seen a kinetic splitter they should be able to handle the repair. On a side note, I was told none of the new racks were available yet so Speeco does not know what time frame the reapir will be completed in. 
Hint of advice for all those owners, I recommend taking the pusher off the beam and adding some loc-tite to the 4 little screws that hold the brass wear-strip on. Mine came loose and one cycle sheared 3 off and dug one into the wear-strip on the beam and seized the unit (took a sledge to get it unlocked). It was replaced quickly by speeco, but I added loc-tite to the new one and actually drilled/tapped some new, bigger holes in the old one. 
I will let all know when my rack arrives so people have an idea as to when the repairs will begin.
On a side note, I have obtained parts directly from speeco to do work myself although this will not be the case for this problem because they are going to, through the repair shops, keep track of which units are repaired.


----------



## Dozer Man

*Good to hear...*



fox2 said:


> As mentioned/suspected, it is a heat treating issue, which I confirmed with Speeco this morning. Basically the repair consists of replacing the rack with a better one which means basically taking out a bolt so even if a shop has never seen a kinetic splitter they should be able to handle the repair. On a side note, I was told none of the new racks were available yet so Speeco does not know what time frame the reapir will be completed in.
> Hint of advice for all those owners, I recommend taking the pusher off the beam and adding some loc-tite to the 4 little screws that hold the brass wear-strip on. Mine came loose and one cycle sheared 3 off and dug one into the wear-strip on the beam and seized the unit (took a sledge to get it unlocked). It was replaced quickly by speeco, but I added loc-tite to the new one and actually drilled/tapped some new, bigger holes in the old one.
> I will let all know when my rack arrives so people have an idea as to when the repairs will begin.
> On a side note, I have obtained parts directly from speeco to do work myself although this will not be the case for this problem because they are going to, through the repair shops, keep track of which units are repaired.



Ya no biggy on the part replacement, the way I look at it is if I can do it anybody can (although I could save them som expence). Thanks for the heads up on the screws also. I'll check mine before I use again. 

Once again, Speeco is very big in the splitter sales and it's good to hear they are taking care of the problem.

Sorry, I have to say it, I saved over $1000 dollars, I'm still way ahead of the game. Still not disappointed with my purchase at all.


----------



## philwillmt

Dozer Man said:


> Ya no biggy on the part replacement, the way I look at it is if I can do it anybody can (although I could save them som expence). Thanks for the heads up on the screws also. I'll check mine before I use again.
> 
> Once again, Speeco is very big in the splitter sales and it's good to hear they are taking care of the problem.
> 
> Sorry, I have to say it, I saved over $1000 dollars, I'm still way ahead of the game. Still not disappointed with my purchase at all.



One has to wonder...if the rack gear is improperly heat treated, then what about the pinion gear? I would want to replace both. SpeeCo and TSC was very good to work with on my out-of-ballance issue, and I sure hope that continues with this gear issue. Personally, I would prefer to make the repair myself for two reasons: 1) I know it will be repaired correctly, and 2) it will be less hastle and less down time. From what I have experienced with my SpeedPro splitter, and after reading each thread on this forum, the root cause of all the issues seems to be a lack of quality control. The issues I had with my new splitter were: 1) flywheels were out of ballance, 2) pinion gear bearings did not turn smoothly (i.e. could feel rough spots when rotating the bearings), 3) left-hand lock washers on right-hand bolts in three locations, and 4) no dust caps came with the wheels. All of these issues could, and should, be caught with some good quality control measures in place. How hard is it to put the right parts in the crate, and how hard is it to insure the flywheels are properly ballanced? If they're out of ballance, don't ship them! With proper ballancing, these machines, and any others for that matter, should run as smooth as silk with virtually no movement at all when they're idling...regardless of the throttle position. Just like a well ballanced wheel on an automobile, you can run it at 1 m.p.h., 100 m.p.h., or anywhere in between and it will be smooth. It's not rocket science, just simple mechanics. I hope SpeedPro makes good on this low quality rack issue. I've already saved them a considerable amount of money on mine by making my own repairs...hopefully they'll show their appreciation by continuing to take care of their customers!


----------



## Dalmatian90

Seems to fit the consensus of the threads I've read over the years here -- Speeco has great customer service, and you're likely to gonna need it.

Used to have a Speeco used to have a customer service rep pop up here every so often.

For the low end of the log splitter price range, they'd be my choice from reading all the reviews and stories over the years. They are what they are -- and the customer's going to end up being their QA inspector for the price they're selling them at.


----------



## Dozer Man

Dalmatian90 said:


> Seems to fit the consensus of the threads I've read over the years here -- Speeco has great customer service, and you're likely to gonna need it.
> 
> Used to have a Speeco used to have a customer service rep pop up here every so often.
> 
> For the low end of the log splitter price range, they'd be my choice from reading all the reviews and stories over the years. They are what they are -- and the customer's going to end up being their QA inspector for the price they're selling them at.



Sure wish I had everybody else's money. Then I could afford "high end" equipment. Wow... Guess I should have went to lowes for the troybuilt hydro, wonder how bad everyone would try to make me feel about that. Sorry that "low end" is all that some can afford. Instead of helping speeco get through there teathing issues with their kinetic splitters, I'll just return mine and go buy an SS. By the way, can someone teach me how to sxxx $1300??? I spent what I could afford. I've read other threads, nobody's perfect... not ss and not dr, they all have a limited warranty for a reason.


----------



## fox2

*SpeedPro*

Dozer, I agree, that is why I am waiting it out. My only dilemma is if their repair does not work and they end up recalling units then I will be faced with throwing up the extra cash or going back to hydraulic. I can not go back to hydraulic so I am really banking on saving my money and them fixing their issues!
I have been very satisfied with customer service so far and I am not disappointed at all with my purchase.


----------



## chillyhiker

pops21 said:


> Well I just got back from tractor supply and found out the speedpro has a RECALL. They pulled the display to the back and were told not to sell another one till further notice. I read the recall paper they had printed off and it had something to do with the teeth being to small on the ram. It said right on the paper to offer FULL refund on ALL speedpro's sold. The manager said he saw this comming. He said too many customers mentioned after seeing the video that it could really hurt someone with the speed and got a hydro instead.
> 
> We ended up getting a 22T huskee.:msp_biggrin:



Same here ...had a hydro splitters for years albeit homemade and had allways wanted a supersplit but didnt have the cash...bought the speedpro at tractor supply and within 5 min a tooth broke off the rack. went and returned it and got another speed pro and parts started falling off it...I just didnt have the confidence in it even with extended warranty to keep it so i returned it and got the husky 22 ton.


----------



## Dozer Man

chillyhiker said:


> Same here ...had a hydro splitters for years albeit homemade and had allways wanted a supersplit but didnt have the cash...bought the speedpro at tractor supply and within 5 min a tooth broke off the rack. went and returned it and got another speed pro and parts started falling off it...I just didnt have the confidence in it even with extended warranty to keep it so i returned it and got the husky 22 ton.



I hate to cut on TSC but to some point quality control has to fall back onto the store. They unbox and do the setup on these things. There has to be a checklist that gets followed through assembly. And one would think they would go so far, at time of purchase, to fire it up and at least give it a few dry runs, before it leaves the parking lot. That alone would show any flywheel imbalance issues. A dry run would also show any engagement issues (After reading a thread on SuperSplits, I found where someone mentioned an engagement issue with a brand new unit...I certainly mean nothing bad about ss, just pointing out that even the best has an issue once in a while). 

Like I've said before, I bought the demo unit. I got to watch it run and try it out. But I will add, as soon as I got it home, I went over it with a fine tooth comb. I was looking for loose bolts and bad welds(found none btw). I don't know who did the assembly at the tsc store, or how qualified they were, but I felt the need to double check there work. I believe Philwilmt went so far as to do his own assembly for the reason of doing his own quality control. 

I agree with you guys in that I would hate to go back to a portable hydro unit. I have a very large hydro splitter, its not portable(unless chained and hoisted to a backhoe). I needed a portable splitter. My only other option was a vert.horiz./hydro unit. After using a kinetic splitter, I can't go back. So...I'll deal with the issues. 

Just adding more $.02, but it's probly only about $.01


----------



## sbhooper

I don't see the fascination with buying these splitters. It looks to me like there are just plain too many moving parts. That is a lot of money to lay out to maybe save a little bit of time splitting wood. 

As far as TSC, they are shakey with their service plans etc. Here, they sold plans on Husqvarna saws for repair at a shop that was not even aware of it. He was incompetent anyway. On other equipment, they had a local shop-which is a good shop-doing the service work and they stopped. TSC was not paying the bills for the repairs. 

I like the TSC store, but I will never buy into their service plans again. 

I had to replace the hydraulics on my Speeco/Huskee and the Speeco customer service was great. They sent me the part and I did the work. The splitter has worked great since.


----------



## 76mark

Broke my 2nd SpeedPro in 3 weeks today. I'm returning it right now and I'm done with the SpeedPro's. Anyone have any suggestions for a splittie in the $3000 range. I'm thinking either a Hydro that can do 4+ way splits or the DR kinetic splitter.


----------



## philwillmt

sbhooper said:


> That is a lot of money to lay out to maybe save a little bit of time splitting wood.
> 
> 
> I wouldn't exactly consider six times as fast as a hydro "saving a little bit of time!" That's what I call a HUGE time saver!


----------



## Como

Just looking at them they seem to have less parts?


----------



## Como

philwillmt said:


> sbhooper said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is a lot of money to lay out to maybe save a little bit of time splitting wood.
> 
> 
> I wouldn't exactly consider six times as fast as a hydro "saving a little bit of time!" That's what I call a HUGE time saver!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is a bit misleading, even their video does not claim that you can process 6x as much wood. Or am I thinking of the DR video?
Click to expand...


----------



## Dozer Man

*Huge Difference*

I agree, kinetic splitters are a lot faster. You are never waiting on the machine. 

And, if you consider the engineering, you have a motor, flywheel/pinion gear (they're attached to each other), actuating lever, and then the ram...there's no more moving parts than a hydro.


----------



## philwillmt

Como said:


> philwillmt said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is a bit misleading, even their video does not claim that you can process 6x as much wood. Or am I thinking of the DR video?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let's do the math...17 seconds (avg. hydro cycle time) / 2.5 seconds (SpeedPro cycle time) = 6.8 times faster. That's a fact...I've used both! With the SpeedPro, it's not a matter of how fast it will split...it's a matter of how fast can you feed it! If you are a fast worker, six times as much production is not out of the question.
Click to expand...


----------



## sunfish

sbhooper said:


> I don't see the fascination with buying these splitters. It looks to me like there are just plain too many moving parts. That is a lot of money to lay out to maybe save a little bit of time splitting wood.



Absolutely no way in hell I'd go back to a hydro after owning a Super Split for the last year and a half...Just saying. :msp_biggrin:


----------



## Dozer Man

philwillmt said:


> Como said:
> 
> 
> 
> With the SpeedPro, it's not a matter of how fast it will split...it's a matter of how fast can you feed it!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's absolutely true...and with the speedpro, your will work your help to death. The machine is waiting on you to feed it, and I often find myself waiting on my help to clear the table! I frequently have to help them load the splits just to get them out of the way. I can't go back to a hydro for production. For busting big rounds, yes(noodling works well too), but for fast production of firewood, you can't beat this type of machine(kinetic).
> 
> And as far as "safety" goes, complacency is eveybodies worst enemy. Doesn't matter if you are running a kinetic splitter or a hydro. With this machine, there is no time for your attention to wander away from it. With the slow movement of hydro machines, there's just to much waiting. Once you get used to the speedpro,or any kinetic splitter, you won't want to go back to waiting... I know I don't anyway!
> 
> And I know, I know...opinions are like xxxholes, everybody has one!!!
Click to expand...


----------



## Como

[video=youtube;UNI4f-rpRT4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=UNI4f-rpRT4[/video]

Here is the DR comparison.


----------



## Dalmatian90

Very interesting they added "if you split for profit" -- I don't usually associate with DR marketing to folks who make money with their tools. Though I have seen the occasional landscaper with some DR stuff (especially the rough mower and the power wheel barrows). That could be me not watching enough of their literature though!


----------



## Mntn Man

There is no question that a DR is faster, but why do they still stack the deck? Did you see how slow that ram was moving? Also, on my hydro, I rarely have to go more than 1/2 stroke and most times just to the shoulder of the wedge and the wood is split. (Ash, Oak, Locust mostly)


----------



## Dalmatian90

> There is no question that a DR is faster, but why do they still stack the deck? Did you see how slow that ram was moving?



Don't know if it's why they chose it...but it looks like the 34 ton Swisher with the labels removed to me, and that has a listed cycle time of 22 seconds (are you supposed to go make a cup of coffee between logs?):

Swisher LS12534HP - 34-Ton Horizontal / Vertical Gas Log Splitter

I didn't see any full splits that weren't edited in the video; I timed one at 5 seconds and it looked like it would need another 2 seconds before the log was split.


----------



## philwillmt

*What's the latest with the stop sale on SpeedPro splitters?*

Any updates on the supposedly defective rack gear issue? I sent an email to the SpeeCo technical representative and TSC. TSC says they are not sure what the issue is, nor what the remedy will be, but will let me know when they find out something. Just wondering if anyone has heard anything else about this.


----------



## motzy77

*splitter*



angelo c said:


> Mine doesn't vibrate either. Im thinking one of the wheels is out of balance. might be hard to isolate unless you remove them and balance separately with those tape weights they use on fancy magnesium auto rims. Can't hurt to try. a simple motorcycle wheel balancer might work well .
> Amazon.com: Heavy Duty Motorcycle Tire Wheel Balancing Balancer Truing Stand: Sports & Outdoors



just drill a couple holes in the flywheel on the heavy side..


----------



## motzy77

stumpy75 said:


> Log Splitter - Hydraulic Log Splitters from Tractor Supply Company
> 
> Edit: CORRECTED LINK....
> 
> I noticed at TSC, that they now list a Speeco Kinetic Log Splitter. Looks to be like a DR RapidFire Log Splitter, but I could not find anything on the Speeco page about it. Price isn't too bad either. I had not seen in on their site until today. My local TSC does not have one in stock.
> 
> Anyone know anything about this splitter?



its great


----------



## motzy77

*splitter*

you got to fill out your warrinty on line..and there going to send everyone tht bought one another ram.. one thats heat treated properly.. talked to them today..


----------



## nysparkie

*Not $1000 saved.*



Dozer Man said:


> Ya no biggy on the part replacement, the way I look at it is if I can do it anybody can (although I could save them som expence). Thanks for the heads up on the screws also. I'll check mine before I use again.
> 
> Once again, Speeco is very big in the splitter sales and it's good to hear they are taking care of the problem.
> 
> Sorry, I have to say it, I saved over $1000 dollars, I'm still way ahead of the game. Still not disappointed with my purchase at all.



DR Rapid Fire right now cost $2,295. NO TAX but delivery charge not included.
You spent what $1800.00 with TAX .
I have split 15 cords with my DR Rapid Fire without a hiccup since Oct 13th. I am splitting more today.
*I am not saying you made a bad purchase.* I hope once the issue is settled you get years of service out of the Speedco.
Your parts are not available, seems to me, for they haven't engineered the hardened parts as yet and you will not be getting them none too soon.
Some of the best Tech and Customer Service I've ever had is with Country Home Products (DR).
On their website the tout the HARDENING they have already put in place on their machine.
*I am not losing money from down time*. Mine is made in the USA except the fly wheels and the 6hp Subuaru engine.
Would you buy the Yugo or the Minicooper?


----------



## 76mark

Hey nysparkie, how long did it take for delivery of the DR. I broke 2 different Speedco's in 3 weeks and I'm leaning towards the DR. Until I get a new splitter the woods just piling up.


----------



## nysparkie

*DR Delivery*



76mark said:


> Hey nysparkie, how long did it take for delivery of the DR. I broke 2 different Speedco's in 3 weeks and I'm leaning towards the DR. Until I get a new splitter the woods just piling up.



Two weeks give or take.. I had mine truck shipped to a local Authorized DR Dealer. It was cheaper to have it delivered to him and I pay the sales tax than have it shipped directly to me and not pay the sales tax. Why? I can't figure it out but it was. He then set it up for me. All I had to do was take a trailer with some chunks with me so he could see it in action. He is a Stilh Dealer and was impressed with the speed. I told him he was free to give out my address if anyone wanted to see a RapidFire in action.

From the RapidFire thread: Smile DR RapidFire -- Fantastic splitter!! #251

Ordered this splitter on a Monday afternoon and the truck line called me on Thursday that it was available for pick up.

Have split several cords with this splitter and I am very well pleased. I heard about the TSC one after I had ordered this DR RapidFire and thought maybe I had made a mistake. But after receiving this machine and then getting a look at the TSC chinese one, the DR is so much better quality , I am so glad I bought it. Little Subaru engine starts and runs great and has a pull start back up to the electric. I would suggest buying the log tray with the machine -- it works so well I can't see using this splitter without it.


----------



## Dozer Man

*Missing the point*



nysparkie said:


> DR Rapid Fire right now cost $2,295. NO TAX but delivery charge not included.
> You spent what $1800.00 with TAX .
> I have split 15 cords with my DR Rapid Fire without a hiccup since Oct 13th. I am splitting more today.
> *I am not saying you made a bad purchase.* I hope once the issue is settled you get years of service out of the Speedco.
> Your parts are not available, seems to me, for they haven't engineered the hardened parts as yet and you will not be getting them none too soon.
> Some of the best Tech and Customer Service I've ever had is with Country Home Products (DR).
> On their website the tout the HARDENING they have already put in place on their machine.
> *I am not losing money from down time*. Mine is made in the USA except the fly wheels and the 6hp Subuaru engine.
> Would you buy the Yugo or the Minicooper?



Sorry, but I just priced out the DR. $2822.95 with table. And I also would have a 2 hour round trip to depot for pickup, otherwise add another $100 for to your door ship. $1003.96 difference. 

Not to mention the dr is not towable. DR told me if i modified it in any way shape or form, it would void the warranty completely. It has to be at least somewhat towable for me to get it from the shop to my work area, it's uphill and just to far to push. Deal breaker to me...I won't leave it at my work area, too many things "walking away" as it is. Nobody is saying the DR is a bad machine, just that DR is a copycat...Upside is they copied a great machine.

I've seen that some of the SS owners in this site have modified there splitters so they could be towed (not for highway use but more for just "to the woods"). I don't know if they talked to Paul at SS about that or not. That is one thing I forgot to ask when I talked to him about SS pricing. Which was $3100 for the "HD" and $2800 for the "J" model, delivered to the same depot as the DR (2 hr. round trip).

Again, I've saved between $1000 to $1300. Which by the way, $1400 was my whole budget for a new splitter BEFORE I started shopping. So, again, I got a kinetic splitter (speedpro) for $400 more than my original budget. So, I'll deal with the issues. 

Fwi, I've had zero problems with my splitter. If I do, then I will worry about what to do next. I do know this, after using a kinetic splitter, it would be extremely hard to go back to hydraulic. 

And as for the yugo vs. minicoop...Well my wife and I had a similar (no yugo, lol) situation a few yrs ago...except if was Cavalier vs. Beetle vs. Minicoop. We went with the beetle. Wife thought it was "cuter" (sold it after a couple yrs.)! Fyi...my wife now drives a "mexican" made GMC YukonXL and I drive an American made Chevy truck (2002 and a 1998 respectively). We buy American whenever possible. But sometimes you have to follow your needs while obeying your budget. I needed a splitter for around $1400.


----------



## D&B Mack

Took me two weeks for the DR as well. Roughly, cost me $1k more than the SpeeCo. But, as previously stated, no downtime so far.

Lack of towing does stink. But, I am working on a theory will a couple of empty brackets they have on the machine that may make localized (non-highway) towing possible.:msp_wink: If I need to move sites, I just roll it up on the landscape trailer.


----------



## nysparkie

Dozer Man said:


> Sorry, but I just priced out the DR. $2822.95 with table. And I also would have a 2 hour round trip to depot for pickup, otherwise add another $100 for to your door ship. $1003.96 difference.
> 
> Not to mention the dr is not towable. DR told me if i modified it in any way shape or form, it would void the warranty completely. It has to be at least somewhat towable for me to get it from the shop to my work area, it's uphill and just to far to push. Deal breaker to me...I won't leave it at my work area, too many things "walking away" as it is. Nobody is saying the DR is a bad machine, just that DR is a copycat...Upside is they copied a great machine.
> 
> I've seen that some of the SS owners in this site have modified there splitters so they could be towed (not for highway use but more for just "to the woods"). I don't know if they talked to Paul at SS about that or not. That is one thing I forgot to ask when I talked to him about SS pricing. Which was $3100 for the "HD" and $2800 for the "J" model, delivered to the same depot as the DR (2 hr. round trip).
> 
> Again, I've saved between $1000 to $1300. Which by the way, $1400 was my whole budget for a new splitter BEFORE I started shopping. So, again, I got a kinetic splitter (speedpro) for $400 more than my original budget. So, I'll deal with the issues.
> 
> 
> 
> Fwi, I've had zero problems with my splitter. If I do, then I will worry about what to do next. I do know this, after using a kinetic splitter, it would be extremely hard to go back to hydraulic.
> 
> And as for the yugo vs. minicoop...Well my wife and I had a similar (no yugo, lol) situation a few yrs ago...except if was Cavalier vs. Beetle vs. Minicoop. We went with the beetle. Wife thought it was "cuter" (sold it after a couple yrs.)! Fyi...my wife now drives a "mexican" made GMC YukonXL and I drive an American made Chevy truck (2002 and a 1998 respectively). We buy American whenever possible. But sometimes you have to follow your needs while obeying your budget. I needed a splitter for around $1400.



I find your prices really out there. Unless shipping to your home is like $500.00?

$500 savings right now for 2295.00
Splitting Table now 299.00
TOTAL 2594.00 (Shipping $$$ Where do you live? How much)
TAX 0.00
SPEEDCO 1800.00
TAX 7% 126.00
Total 1926.00

DR 2594.00 (Less Shipping)
Speedco 1926.00
Total Difference 668.00 (Again less shipping)
*I don't know where you save between 1000.00 to 1300.00 dollars - It just isn't there in the price difference.*
I had mine shipped to an authorized DR Dealer and paid no shipping. They have a list of them at Customer Service
You can have it shipped there for PU. You'll pay the sales tax then. Here in NY I pay 8.5%. 
Numbers here for thought. I do not a Chinese Machine. I have not had trouble with mine.
I have a free 3 year warranty. I have a free one year hands on no Bull return.
I have arguably one of the Best Customer Service and Tech Support systems I have ever used.

Anyone is free, at this time in this Country, to buy what and from whom. If you are happy with yours. I am happy for you.


----------



## Dozer Man

*Simple Math*



nysparkie said:


> I find your prices really out there. Unless shipping to your home is like $500.00?
> 
> $500 savings right now for 2295.00
> Splitting Table now 299.00
> TOTAL 2594.00 (Shipping $$$ Where do you live? How much)
> TAX 0.00
> SPEEDCO 1800.00
> TAX 7% 126.00
> Total 1926.00
> 
> DR 2594.00 (Less Shipping)
> Speedco 1926.00
> Total Difference 668.00 (Again less shipping)
> *I don't know where you save between 1000.00 to 1300.00 dollars - It just isn't there in the price difference.*
> I had mine shipped to an authorized DR Dealer and paid no shipping. They have a list of them at Customer Service
> You can have it shipped there for PU. You'll pay the sales tax then. Here in NY I pay 8.5%.
> Numbers here for thought. I do not a Chinese Machine. I have not had trouble with mine.
> I have a free 3 year warranty. I have a free one year hands on no Bull return.
> I have arguably one of the Best Customer Service and Tech Support systems I have ever used.
> 
> Anyone is free, at this time in this Country, to buy what and from whom. If you are happy with yours. I am happy for you.



Your math is correct on the DR...
Shipping to ft. wayne indiana depot(2 hrs round trip) is $228.00. $2594.95 + $228 = $2822.95. Speedpro is $1699.99 plus 7% IN sales tax comes to...$1818.98. 
A difference of...$1003.97 (i was off .01). 
No dealers even remotely close. 
Can't add hitch without voiding all that warranty and return policy. 
And... I don't have an extra grand. 

I'm sure DR makes good equipment. I still don't understand why you keep writing about your rapidfire in the speedpro thread. Most of the people in this thread have not had a problem with there equipment. If they did, speeco took care of them. I'm sure when DR gets a large number of there splitters out on the market, they will eventually have some sort of problem with something. Or maybe not. Time will tell. Speeco has been around a long time and has sold a lot of splitters. The more you sell the more problems will show up. If somebody gets something they like, they tell a friend. If someone gets something they don't like...they tell everyone they know!!


----------



## Dozer Man

D&B Mack said:


> Took me two weeks for the DR as well. Roughly, cost me $1k more than the SpeeCo. But, as previously stated, no downtime so far.
> 
> Lack of towing does stink. But, I am working on a theory will a couple of empty brackets they have on the machine that may make localized (non-highway) towing possible.:msp_wink: If I need to move sites, I just roll it up on the landscape trailer.



If you do add a hitch, of some sort, I wouldn't advertise it on this site...I'm sure someone from DR is watching these threads. I don't know whether they could trace thread replies back to you or not though. Just saying, when I asked about putting some sort of hitch on the DR, they were adamant about it voiding all warranties. I'm definately not trying to start something here, just pointing it out.


----------



## nysparkie

*Ok*



Dozer Man said:


> Your math is correct on the DR...
> Shipping to ft. wayne indiana depot(2 hrs round trip) is $228.00. $2594.95 + $228 = $2822.95. Speedpro is $1699.99 plus 7% IN sales tax comes to...$1818.98.
> A difference of...$1003.97 (i was off .01).
> No dealers even remotely close.
> Can't add hitch without voiding all that warranty and return policy.
> And... I don't have an extra grand.
> 
> I'm sure DR makes good equipment. I still don't understand why you keep writing about your rapidfire in the speedpro thread. Most of the people in this thread have not had a problem with there equipment. If they did, speeco took care of them. I'm sure when DR gets a large number of there splitters out on the market, they will eventually have some sort of problem with something. Or maybe not. Time will tell. Speeco has been around a long time and has sold a lot of splitters. The more you sell the more problems will show up. If somebody gets something they like, they tell a friend. If someone gets something they don't like...they tell everyone they know!!



I saw on this thread where a Speeco Owner was returning his and is looking to buy a RapidFire or possibly Super Split. Others here have mad mention and have enven posted Youtube videos of the DR RapidFire - comparing apples to apples. I'm sure you are happy with the Speedco. When I ordered my RapidFire I didn't even know the Speedco was available or even made. Heck a TSC is only 8 miles from my house. If by chance I had seen one there I may have bought that instead. I'm happy I didn't only because I own other DR equipment and have found them to be totally reliable. If and when I needed help it was quick and professional. Yes they are more $$$. Made in America usually is compared to China. I sorry it was out of your price range but again you say you and yours are gellin and rockin. That is great. My best to you.


----------



## nysparkie

D&B Mack said:


> Took me two weeks for the DR as well. Roughly, cost me $1k more than the SpeeCo. But, as previously stated, no downtime so far.
> 
> Lack of towing does stink. But, I am working on a theory will a couple of empty brackets they have on the machine that may make localized (non-highway) towing possible.:msp_wink: If I need to move sites, I just roll it up on the landscape trailer.



I have a buddy that is a pretty good fabricator. We are looking to make a cradle of some sort to just pull the RapidFire right up on/into it. Not altering a thing on the splitter. 1. We are looking at how to use the existing wheels/axel set-up. 2. Having a completely different axel and set of wheels with a upside down fender arrangment that the existing tires would just rest in. Strap it down to the frab frame and go. Not altering anything on the machine at all. If we get something done that is pretty decent I will post a pic and a cost, when it happens.


----------



## Dozer Man

*SpeedPro Quality Check*

Has anyone on this thread had any trouble with there speedpro?? How are they running? Any returns?? 

Has anyone had or seen a rack issue yet? Replacement?? 

Lots of SpeedPro purchasers on here earlier...curious how things are going for them.

Or all we all just waiting (and still splitting)??

Curiosity is getting the best of me and I'm getting tired of arguing with the dr guys!!! 

Just kidding... LOL. All input is appreciated. (although I do usually go to the dr thread to find out about the rapidfire).
:msp_confused::msp_sneaky::cool2:


----------



## BSD

no major problems with mine yet. no signs of wear on the rack @ 12 cords produced. I'm going to register mine and request a second rack so if it does break I hopefully have it in my hands before


----------



## lumberjackmoe

*Lumberjackmoe*

No problems with mine. No signs of wear. I just wish the table were a bit larger. I might have a add on made. Speedpro and TSC have been more then helpful with me.


----------



## TFPace

*Running great*

My SpeedPro is operating great. LOL on the DR talking heads "They're the best:msp_biggrin:"

I registered mine with SpeeCo online within days of purchase. Like BSD, I'm going to contact them and get my name in the hat for a replacement rack.


----------



## nysparkie

*No Problems*



TFPace said:


> My SpeedPro is operating great. LOL on the DR talking heads "They're the best:msp_biggrin:"
> 
> I registered mine with SpeeCo online within days of purchase. Like BSD, I'm going to contact them and get my name in the hat for a replacement rack.



I see all have been happy with their machines. Great. I hope none ever need that Hardened rack.


----------



## Dozer Man

*Good to hear*

No breakage here either. Everythings working fine. 

Lumberjackmoe...if you do a mod on your table, I'd love to see it. 

It would be nice to have a spare rack...preferably one with two legs !!!  :biggrinbounce2:


----------



## cbravnm

My Speed Pro Rack broke Thursday evening after about 15 cords ran through it. I returned the unit to TSC for refund no problems other than I have to wait 7-10 business days for a refund check. I am ordering super split today which came down to their lead time was less than rapidfire.


----------



## Naked Arborist

*I need fast now!*

Hey guys does anybody have an update this week on when they will be selling the splitters again? :help:

Now that I need a fast machine on a budget they are not selling them  Looks like most of the trouble is in the rack. I'm not so sure it is a problem with the metallurgy and hardness as it may be more of a problem with full tooth engagement. Everybody knows a gear tooth intended to do a heavy job is seriously stressed when only half or less of the tooth is engaged.


Did anybody here compare the engagement of the rack and pinion from one machine to another?
A quick look at the wear marks on the drive teeth would tell a story I'm sure. I hear some say that the bent lever seems to have played a huge roll on when the machine will disengage on it's own. That tells me some people are getting a better bite on the rack when the teeth are engaged to the pinion shaft gear. 

If people could post some pics of what their gear wear patterns are I suspect you may find some big difference on tooth depth engagement to the rack.


----------



## Cmccul8146

NA, That's exactly what I posted on page 20 of this thread concerning the gear breakage. Most likely it is improperly tempered gears, but as I discovered on my homebuilt splitter. full engagement of the teeth is critical. When I built the engagement cam on mine, I made the roller too small & wasn't getting full gear meshing. When I broke 4 or 5 teeth off my pinion gear after a couple of months , I replaced it & started checking for possible causes. Had way too much clearance, so I made the roller bigger & now have .015 clearance when the gears are fully engaged. No problems since.


----------



## 3fordasho

*TSC's Thanksgiving ad*

Interesting that the Speedpro is featured in TSC's thanksgiving ad, has a larger picture of it than the usual hydro units.
Does that mean the stop sale is over and they are available?


----------



## Dalmatian90

Doubtful given the timing.

I saw the ad too. 

(Putting on my I used to work at a newspaper hat)

Those are pre-printed and shipped to newspapers, mailers, etc well in advance.

ESPECIALLY for the Thanksgiving where you're going to see Sunday like number of inserts into the newspapers for both Thanksgiving Day so the hens can plan their Black Friday shopping sprees and then again on Sunday when you'll have another larger-then-usual number of inserts.

So the printing companies have to print these weeks in advance to deal with the double volume.

Once in a while we'd have a set of flyers to insert that were ruined in shipping or the company otherwise had to pull and replace them and there wasn't enough time for one of the specialty flyer printing companies to do it. We were completely capable of printing them -- and charged a very nice premium for the service $$

The timing was such I would've expected the TS flyer to have been finalized before the stop sale order. And they're not going to redo the flyer unless they had some ridiculous mistake in them that their lawyers said, "Holy ####, stop the presses!"


----------



## BILLSFIREWOOD

*DO NOT GET the speedpro*

I had one it is over $1800.00 and it is no good. thay are recalling them. Got it 10/24/11, gear was the firt than to go. thay replased it 11/5/11. this one the brass under the ram came of 11/21/11. I have a DR on order.


----------



## Pcoz88

Just buy the one from Howard,Ohio .Built very well.Any body that lives close to Green Springs,ohio I would love to show any one!



Pete


----------



## 4r concepts

*speed pro log splitter*

As a seasoned log splitter, I have had the opportunity to go from a typical splitter, to a firewood processor, now to a kinetic splitter. Kinetic splitters may be the best invention since the tree itself. Way worth the money and a great invention. However, do not buy a speed pro like I did. Spend the extra few dollars and buy a super split or even better the DR Rapid fire. I have purchased the speed pro to save a few dollars and have had nothing but difficulties. They made haste and the product is complete waste. Attempting to beat the curve, since the patent expired, they threw a product out with little testing. Used very low carbon steel on parts that really mattered. I nearly lost my hand when a part broke after only 4 hours of use. When i contacted the company they admitted to having "problems" and will mail me another part. Not worth even 500.00. Sad since they also make Huskee brand and they have always worked great. Please do not buy, and if you have had difficulties, please post. Very dangerous...they need to stop sales now and recall all that was sold. 

James Rich, MPH
845-389-1402
[email protected]


----------



## 76mark

Does anyone have details on the unit made in Howard, OH? I had the SpeedPro and returned it to TSC after I broke 2 units in 3 weeks of use. I'll be ordering something new after Xmas...leaning towards the DR right now.

I agree that the SpeedPro was a waste. It worked great for the short periods it wasn't broke, but just wasn't designed correctly. The first break was ripping 6 teeth off the rack and the next was a bent rod so the rack wouldn't engage. I gave up on it after that. Who knows what part will break next on that thing.


----------



## BILLSFIREWOOD

Pcoz88 said:


> Just buy the one from Howard,Ohio .Built very well.Any body that lives close to Green Springs,ohio I would love to show any one!
> 
> 
> 
> Pete


 Thay are not built well at all. We only got 8 cord in 3 week ,it stay brokin. Thay cud be fixed, but I fill it is on good at this time. We have a DR rapid fire on order will be hear in 3 weeks. I thank the supper splitter is a good one to.


----------



## Pcoz88

Billsfirewood said"Thay are not built well at all. We only got 8 cord in 3 week ,it stay brokin. Thay cud be fixed, but I fill it is on good at this time. We have a DR rapid fire on order will be hear in 3 weeks. I thank the supper splitter is a good one to. "



What went wrong with the the splitter from Howard,Ohio?Pics please. Yes ,they are very well built!!

Flack hill Machine LTD
7799 Flack Road
Howard,Ohio 43028
740-427-2723(this is a community phone ask for Melvin Yoder and or leave a message)


----------



## TFPace

*Update*

My machine is running great! I hate hearing that some of the SpeedPro kinetics are giving problems.

I have talked to SpeeCo's customer service and they are fully aware of the heat treat issues. A new order of racks are in the line to be run and once they are state-side everyone will receive a new and improved rack. These guys are pro-active and plan on making everyone satisfied.

Tom


----------



## BILLSFIREWOOD

TFPace said:


> My machine is running great! I hate hearing that some of the SpeedPro kinetics are giving problems.
> 
> I have talked to SpeeCo's customer service and they are fully aware of the heat treat issues. A new order of racks are in the line to be run and once they are state-side everyone will receive a new and improved rack. These guys are pro-active and plan on making everyone satisfied.
> 
> Tom


 Tom I do hope it will fix that problum, but thar others. I got the two from Ashboro nc . Call me at 919 942 5738 Bill Long.


----------



## BSD

here's a thought, would it be possible to re-heat treat my rack in the time being to try to prevent the problem? 

I split a cord or so with mine today and checked the rack, mine is starting to show signs of wear now (2 cords ago there were no signs of damage). so I'm being a bit more careful what I put into the splitter. Last thing I want to is to blow the rack and not have a replacement available, we have way too much wood to process at the moment and going back to our 20T hydro is NOT an option.


----------



## BILLSFIREWOOD

Pcoz88 said:


> Billsfirewood said"Thay are not built well at all. We only got 8 cord in 3 week ,it stay brokin. Thay cud be fixed, but I fill it is on good at this time. We have a DR rapid fire on order will be hear in 3 weeks. I thank the supper splitter is a good one to. "
> 
> 
> 
> What went wrong with the the splitter from Howard,Ohio?Pics please. Yes ,they are very well built!!
> 
> Flack hill Machine LTD
> 7799 Flack Road
> Howard,Ohio 43028
> 740-427-2723(this is a community phone ask for Melvin Yoder and or leave a message)


 Hi Melvin your #, I tryd it. Call me Bill Long 919 942 5738. Will go in to what all went wrong. I do hope thay cane fix it , but i do not thank thay can with the way it is set up now.


----------



## COUNTRY6543

Well I bought a new wood Earth brand wood boiler this fall and decided I needed a splitter. TSC is about a mile away and knew I wanted a kinetic. Bought the SpeedPro and put it to work. Plus side is this thing flies. Will split anything I can lift even knots and forks. Very impressed. Split about an hour and decided the saftey had to go. Pulled the sides and pulled the saftey completely out. Left the engagement as is because I felt more comfortable being behind the splitter. Commenced to splitting and after about half hour the engagement rod bent. Tore it about and straightened it. Hour later it bent again. Tore it out and straightened it again. I was bending under the safety block. This time I welded a 3/8 rod to it to beef it up. Ran about two cords through it and it bent again above the saftey block. This thing is so impressive in action that I was determined to make it work. I completely tore out the engagement rod and refitted it with a 1/2 rod that was substantially heavier than the factory rod. Have ran about 8-10 cords through it so far and no bent rod. I have been splitting everything I can get ahold of. If I can keep this thing going I see my tree business expanding into firewood sales soon. Could not aford a processor and Hydraulics are way to slow. (time is money) I feel this was a very good effort by SpeedCo but they have so bugs to work out. I still feel that I have saved alot going this route. If the firewood demand supports it I would definately buy a SuperSplit over a speed pro but just starting the firewood I did not want to sink a whole bunch of money into it. Let me know if ya' got any questions.


----------



## Dalmatian90

Bill -- if you bought yours at Tractor Supply, they're built in China for Speeco; they're not built by Melvin Yoder in Howard, OH. Did you buy yours at Tractor Supply?


----------



## Pcoz88

Bill your just going to have to keep calling to you get somebody to leave a message with or Melvin answers it.(This is not melvin)

Pete


----------



## ryan_marine

Bill,
The guy in howard lives next door to me. You can call me at 740-358-2077. Tommarow is opening day of deer gun season up here and I know his shop is closed til wensday. Call me thursday and I will try to get you intouch with him.

Ray


----------



## nysparkie

*Sorry for your woes.*

First off, I am so sorry for those who are having the issues they are with this machine.
None of us wish ill will to fellow "wood workers". I know some need to split for a living
and this is not fun. I also know there are many without the slightly deeper pockets needed
for a RapidFire or a SuperSplit. I don't know how to answer that issue. I just feel bad for ya.
Now:
25 cords.....splitting for late seaon and next year..home heating only. 25 cords not a hic-cup.
This was done Sunday after Bill/jets 1/2 time. Worked until dark. Maybe 3+ cords.
Second pic is a big knot I went through. Had to hit it three times. Thats like 8 seconds.
View attachment 208935

View attachment 208935


I hope those who are having issues get satisfactory results.


----------



## BILLSFIREWOOD

*Yes tractor supply*



Dalmatian90 said:


> Bill -- if you bought yours at Tractor Supply, they're built in China for Speeco; they're not built by Melvin Yoder in Howard, OH. Did you buy yours at Tractor Supply?[/Q Yes from Tractor Supply. Do not know wot Melvin Yoder is built, it may be as good as the DR Rapid Fire .


----------



## Dozer Man

*You're not sorry...*



nysparkie said:


> First off, I am so sorry for those who are having the issues they are with this machine.
> None of us wish ill will to fellow "wood workers". I know some need to split for a living
> and this is not fun. I also know there are many without the slightly deeper pockets needed
> for a RapidFire or a SuperSplit. I don't know how to answer that issue. I just feel bad for ya.
> Now:
> 25 cords.....splitting for late seaon and next year..home heating only. 25 cords not a hic-cup.
> This was done Sunday after Bill/jets 1/2 time. Worked until dark. Maybe 3+ cords.
> Second pic is a big knot I went through. Had to hit it three times. Thats like 8 seconds.
> 
> I hope those who are having issues get satisfactory results.






I'm pretty sure you like coming over to this thread cuz it makes you feel better about yourself!! I believe what you are doing is called...hmmm let me think....could it be........bragging?? 

Fyi... If I or anybody else wants to read about the DR, we will go to the thread about the rapidfire (supersplit copy). 

A grand is not a small difference (35%+/-). Do I need to do the math for you...again? 

And nobody asked for nor wants your sympathy. In fact, I kinda resent it..."slightly deaper pockets"...it's a little condescending don't ya think? At least to us "poor folk" anyways.

And btw, your pile looks like more like 1/2 to 2/3 of a cord. Def not "3 cord". You do know that a cord is 128cu.ft., right?

No offense...


----------



## nysparkie

*Sincere*

Hey, You aren't the only poster here. Pretty touchy there aren't ya.
I won't go into the posts that compared one to the other. I guess ya got a selective memory.
I believe in several things. Number One is Jesus is my savior. Number two: I don't lie because of number one.
I do feel bad for you guys. If it was a matter of one week, earlier, when I discovered TSC was selling
kenetic splitters, I would have bought one. Yes I had the dollars for a RapidFire but I raided my retirement funds for it.
I too would have liked spending less. Now, well hindsight, just saying. 
AND if anyone out there is looking to buy one of the major three Kenetics out there and I can help him make a decision that works in his
favor. Then good. I am more than happy to post here, in Russia or Haiti so that it helps him. 
OK?



Dozer Man said:


> I'm pretty sure you like coming over to this thread cuz it makes you feel better about yourself!! I believe what you are doing is called...hmmm let me think....could it be........bragging??
> 
> Fyi... If I or anybody else wants to read about the DR, we will go to the thread about the rapidfire (supersplit copy).
> 
> A grand is not a small difference (35%+/-). Do I need to do the math for you...again?
> 
> And nobody asked for nor wants your sympathy. In fact, I kinda resent it..."slightly deaper pockets"...it's a little condescending don't ya think? At least to us "poor folk" anyways.
> 
> And btw, your pile looks like more like 1/2 to 2/3 of a cord. Def not "3 cord". You do know that a cord is 128cu.ft., right?
> 
> No offense...


----------



## TFPace

*No Dozer....*

DozerMan, you're not the only one:msp_biggrin:


----------



## Dozer Man

I certainly didn't think I called anyone a liar. I know I didn't mean to. 
My apologies if I offended anyone. 

I know when I made my decision on which splitter to purchase, I went to the rapidfire page to find info on the dr. I went to the speedpro page for the speedpro. And Supersplit pages for ss.

Thanks Tfpace...

No I'm not happy with the situation with the speedpro, but it is what it is. I still think it is a great machine and have zero problems with mine. I'm still certain that speeco will resolve the issue soon. Christmas shopping season is here and I'm sure they know that they are missing sales. Hopefully it's some incentive for a speedy resolution.


----------



## cheeves

Mntn Man said:


> I was buying chainsaws after getting CAD. Lately, I have had a taste for guns. After just refurbing my Huskee, I don't need to see all of these new kinetic splitters coming on the market. I don't need one. I don't need one. I don't need one. Repeat after me.:bang:



Since joining AS I"ve gotten 5 chainsaws and 2 guns. Please God don't let me get the new SpeedPro Kinetic log Splitter.!


----------



## MNGuns

Dozer Man said:


> I'm pretty sure you like coming over to this thread cuz it makes you feel better about yourself!! I believe what you are doing is called...hmmm let me think....could it be........bragging??
> 
> Fyi... If I or anybody else wants to read about the DR, we will go to the thread about the rapidfire (supersplit copy).
> 
> A grand is not a small difference (35%+/-). Do I need to do the math for you...again?
> 
> And nobody asked for nor wants your sympathy. In fact, I kinda resent it..."slightly deaper pockets"...it's a little condescending don't ya think? At least to us "poor folk" anyways.
> 
> And btw, <font color="red">your pile looks like more like 1/2 to 2/3 of a cord.</font> Def not "3 cord". You do know that a cord is 128cu.ft., right?
> 
> No offense...






All day long....opcorn:


----------



## KiwiBro

*Chin-up Dozer. I'd have (and nearly did) do the same.*

$1000 is plenty enough for some to feel they need to justify that premium they paid by looking down upon the TSC product and by extension, the purchasers or at the very least their buying decision. The implication is that a perfectly good product can't be bought by saving $1000 on the TSC option. Bollix to that. TSC buyers paid perfectly good money and have a right to a perfectly good machine. I read somewhere it's something like one in seven working age Americans are out of work. For many, $10 makes a difference in this day and age, let alone $100 or $1000. It's a great pity too many can't appreciate that, until the rug is pulled out from under them too and they are fighting to keep a roof over their kid's heads, food on the table and the parasitic/financial wolves from the door.


----------



## Dozer Man

*Kinetic vs. Hydraulic*

My choices...
Speeco 28 ton hydro vert./horiz. splitter.....$1495.00
Speeco 35 ton hydro vert./horiz. splitter.....$1899.00
Speeco SpeedPro Kinetic splitter...............$1699.00

Other than some troybuild Lowes stuff, and a couple MTD knockoffs, these splitters were my only *local* options. _ I had been planning on buying a vert/horiz splitter since last winter_. I don't split enough wood to justify a processor, or an SS for that matter. A SuperSplit is a *want* not a *need* for me. I've been *wanting* an SS since the first time I saw a video of it on youtube (about 3 yrs. ago). 

As my SpeedPro is still splitting fine, I have no regrets with my decision. If there are problems to come with this machine, I will deal with them. At the speed I can split now, vs. with a hydro unit, it's worth any headache to come. 

Once again, I got a kinetic flywheel splitter for the price I was going to spend on a vert/horiz hydro. Buying a DR or an SS was never a consideration for me (_not being towable was another big issue for me also_).

Nysparkie,
I regret my comments to you. I was inferring that you weren't sincere, and I apologize for that. It's not wrong for you to be proud of your new splitter. I just don't understand your need to brag about it in the "SpeedPro" thread. If someone asks for info on the DR, we would direct them to the "Rapidfire" thread. Isn't that where one would get the most info about the dr? I know that's where I went for info about it. If someone in the rapidfire thread asked for info on the speedpro where would you send them? Hopefully over here to the speedpro bashing thread. LOL
And btw... Please keep your condescending comments to yourself. ie... "I also know there are many without the slightly deeper pockets needed for a RapidFire or a SuperSplit. I don't know how to answer that issue. I just feel bad for ya." 
I don't need your pitty. I'm doing just fine.


----------



## DoubleNickel

*Flying Wood!!!*

Jesus is my Lord too!! Now that being said for myself.​​
WATCH OUT!! for wood kickbacks to the groin area, you could wind up with Peyronie's Disease. (google it) I was not aware of this problem, as it's never talked about!!!! And I am in the medical field!!! Believe me, no man wants to develop this, and it happened to me. So please be careful of "anything" flying to the groin area. That being said:

I have been using my brothers SpeedPro for the last week and I must say, what a splitter. Puts my 35 ton hydraulic to shame. He took the safety button off and reversed the handle. The reversed handle makes the rack and pinion engagement smoother, as it's a more direct push, I think?

The rackhead is sticking to the base near the knife head as the rackhead developed a slight bow, so that will have to be replaced. I have to smack the ramhead back to unstick it with the next piece of wood. I hear the problems with this machine, but I think when the bugs are cleaned up, it will be just as good or better than others. One of the main reasons for getting this model, is that, it's not top heavy and can be towed with no problem. Just bungee cord the handle down as it bounces up and down when rolling.

That's my 2 cents.


----------



## Dozer Man

DoubleNickel,
Nice write up, and thanks for the info. Nutshots are never good!!!


----------



## philwillmt

*Rack Issues*

With all the talk about the rack issues on the SpeedPro, I wonder if people are lubricating the rack and pinion gears on their machines? I don't recall reading anything about lubricating them in the owner's manual, but any gear needs some type of lubrication. The first thing I did after assembling and before using my SpeedPro was lubricate EVERYTHING...including greasing the rack and pinion gears. I'm just wondering if part of the problem with the gears may be that owners may be running them dry???


----------



## COUNTRY6543

That is a good point, lubeing the rack. I will do that tommarow. I emailed SpeedCo. Yesterday and registered mine for the warranty. They replied that they were having intermintent problems with the racks but new ones were coming. They told me that I should continue to split wood with mine if I have not had any problems, but if I did they would make it right. (don't really know what that means) Spoke to the manager at my local TSC and he told me the other splitter they had got in was recalled by SpeedCo. He didn't know much more. I told him the only problem I had was in the handle engagement rod. If anyone is haveing the same problems I have now bent a 1/2 inch rod. I changed mine out from the factory 3/8 to 1/2. The 1/2 bent. I pulled it out, straightened it and heat treated it hard. Either it will hold or snap, we'll find out.


----------



## BILLSFIREWOOD

*No lubricate*



philwillmt said:


> With all the talk about the rack issues on the SpeedPro, I wonder if people are lubricating the rack and pinion gears on their machines? I don't recall reading anything about lubricating them in the owner's manual, but any gear needs some type of lubrication. The first thing I did after assembling and before using my SpeedPro was lubricate EVERYTHING...including greasing the rack and pinion gears. I'm just wondering if part of the problem with the gears may be that owners may be running them dry???


 Hi lubrication will hold the trash to the gears. SpeedPro is not the one with the recall. SpeedCo from TS is. I have a SpeedPro on order. Have you used youres, hope it workes good fore you.


----------



## BSD

BILLSFIREWOOD said:


> Hi lubrication will hold the trash to the gears. SpeedPro is not the one with the recall. SpeedCo from TS is. I have a SpeedPro on order. Have you used youres, hope it workes good fore you.


ehhh.. what?

Speeco makes the SpeedPro.


----------



## BILLSFIREWOOD

BSD said:


> ehhh.. what?
> 
> Speeco makes the SpeedPro.


 lolo YES you are right . I have the DR Rapid Fire on order. It shod be hear in two weeks. I hope you that have the SpeedCo, it will get fixed.


----------



## MNGuns

BILLSFIREWOOD said:


> Hi lubrication will hold the trash to the gears. SpeedPro is not the one with the recall. SpeedCo from TS is. I have a SpeedPro on order. Have you used youres, hope it workes good fore you.



The SS rack get a tablespoon of axle grease applied to it periodically. No trash sticks to it at all. I would certainly not run one dry regardless of the manufacturer.


----------



## D&B Mack

MNGuns said:


> The SS rack get a tablespoon of axle grease applied to it periodically. No trash sticks to it at all. I would certainly not run one dry regardless of the manufacturer.



DR's manual says to lubricate every 25 hours.


----------



## cheeves

philwillmt said:


> With all the talk about the rack issues on the SpeedPro, I wonder if people are lubricating the rack and pinion gears on their machines? I don't recall reading anything about lubricating them in the owner's manual, but any gear needs some type of lubrication. The first thing I did after assembling and before using my SpeedPro was lubricate EVERYTHING...including greasing the rack and pinion gears. I'm just wondering if part of the problem with the gears may be that owners may be running them dry???



I had one of the original SS splitters here for 5 years. Belonged to a friend. I would grease the rack and pinion gears every week or so when I was using it. GREAT POINT!!! It's still splitting wood!


----------



## ziggo_2

I dont own one nor do i plan to, but ive seen them operate and from my understanding there like shifting gears on a manual transmission without using a clutch. That said i dont see how any amount of lube is going to help the inevitable...also if a supersplit costs 3grand and a copy is made and sold for less than 2grand wouldnt you question the durability and quality a bit? after all you get what you pay for...and sometimes you dont even get that.

This is just another product that was rushed right past quality control and to the salesfloor.


----------



## philwillmt

ziggo_2 said:


> I dont own one nor do i plan to, but ive seen them operate and from my understanding there like shifting gears on a manual transmission without using a clutch. That said i dont see how any amount of lube is going to help the inevitable...also if a supersplit costs 3grand and a copy is made and sold for less than 2grand wouldnt you question the durability and quality a bit? after all you get what you pay for...and sometimes you dont even get that.
> 
> This is just another product that was rushed right past quality control and to the salesfloor.



As stated in a previous post, I never expected to get the highest quality mechanical splitter out there when I purchased the SpeedPro, and I based that assumption on the considerably lower price. However, I did expect to get a fair quality machine which, if taken care of properly, would give me a number of years of service. I'm the type of person who will purposely purchase a notch or two below "top-of-the-line" products, take really good care of it (as I do all of my tools & machinery), and end up getting just as much, if not more, service life out of my machine as one of the "top-of-the-line" machines. Concerning lubrication...try running your manual transmission dry and see how long it lasts! To me, lubricating high friction metal-to-metal surfaces is common sense! I'm not saying it will prevent teeth from shearing off of an improperly heat-treated rack gear, but it will certainly make the gears engage a lot smoother, thus reduce friction and metal loss, which could ultimately lead to sheared teeth.


----------



## MNGuns

Different strokes for different folks...

I'll buy store brand food, cheaper t-shirts and jeans, and similar items, but learned a long time ago not to go cheap on boots, or tools. It just doesn't pay in the long run. Best of luck.


----------



## COUNTRY6543

I don't know if anyone else is experienceing this but I know exactly when I bend my engagement rod. I hit a hard knot or fork and the rack disengages the pinion with an extreme amount of force, so hard that if you have your hand on the handle that it hurts during kickback. With this force I know this is when the rod bends. This is also probable when others are experiencing the broken rack. I checked my rack and it does not seem to be worn or hurt. I think so far my engagement rod is the week link. 

As for thoughs who keep condeming us for buying such a cheap peice of crap... I would appreciate you moving your comments elsewhere. I do not believe that the SS or the DR is worth the price you paid. There is not 3000.00 worth of steel or machining in these units. As I also don't believe there is 1800.00 worth of steel in the Speedpro. Know doubt the Kohler engine on these came from China also and probable cost about 100.00 or so. I did not know this was chinese before I bought it. I thought it was from Colorado and thought someone got there act together. I was wrong and now have to deal with it. I really feel that a company could put one of these units together for 1/3 to 1/4 the price paid and still have a very good product with quality steel and make a profit selling them for 1500.00 or so.


----------



## philwillmt

MNGuns said:


> Different strokes for different folks...
> 
> I'll buy store brand food, cheaper t-shirts and jeans, and similar items, but learned a long time ago not to go cheap on boots, or tools. It just doesn't pay in the long run. Best of luck.



MNGuns,

I agree whole-heartedly with what you are saying, within reason, as long as one can afford the higher priced tools. However, one can go overboard with that philosophy too! Example: I don't see the need to buy Snap-On tools over Craftsman for a non-professional mechanic or casual user. To me, the application and frequency of use determine whether or not one can justify a lower quality tool or piece of equipment. If I were in the business of processing and selling firewood, then believe you me I would have invested in the highest quality splitter that I could find, and probably would have found a way to afford it. I only use my splitter for me and a few others, so I could not justify buying the most expensive model out there.


----------



## Dozer Man

*Cheap tools ??*



MNGuns said:


> Different strokes for different folks...
> 
> I'll buy store brand food, cheaper t-shirts and jeans, and similar items, but learned a long time ago not to go cheap on boots, or tools. It just doesn't pay in the long run. Best of luck.




I will definately agree with you, but only to a point. I've had problems with or broke tools that were supposed to be considered "high end" or "name brand". Proper use and proper maintanence goes a long way with today's equipment, be it high end or low end. Sometimes we're buying a name brand, and I'm not talking splitters at the moment, just to be buying the name. As the saying goes, "things aren't built the way they used to be". 

Philwillmt...I agree, just because I saved some money doesn't mean they were giving these things away. We still made a substantial investment and deserve a good product. And you're absolutely right that "frequency of use" has to be used in determining the quality/price of a tool. 

Rack/Pinion Lube...What grease would you all recommend for the rack? Bearing grease? Moly? Corn picker grease? BlackJack? Lithium? Marine grease?? Someone said axle grease, is that the same as wheel bearing grease?? I was thinking of using regular moly grease, although I still have a couple tubes of Ce##### synthetic grease (which I will be using on the flywheel bearings). It's real sticky and stringy. Opinions are appreciated greatly.


----------



## Cmccul8146

COUNTRY6543 said:


> I know exactly when I bend my engagement rod. I hit a hard knot or fork and the rack disengages the pinion with an extreme amount of force, so hard that if you have your hand on the handle that it hurts during kickback.
> 
> 
> Country, I haven't seen one of the SpeedPro splitters, but what you're describing as to when you bend the engagement rod should not be happening at all. The SS, DR, and my homebuilt splitter aren't built to AUTOMATICALLY disengage when you hit a knot , "hard spot",twisted stringy stuff, or whatever. The centrifugal clutch SHOULD SLIP, and the flywheels stall. You should have to MANUALLY disengage the gears, & springs pull rack back to "home' position. From what you are saying, your clutch is not slipping as it should. Spray a little WD-40 on the shoes to help them to slip. I have read some comments here on AS about rust on some areas of the SpeedPro splitters. Possible that the clutches have rusted up from the salty air while crossing the pond and are not slipping well enough. If that's the case, there may not be a problem with the gear hardness . If that clutch doesn't slip, something has got to give , & it'll likely be the teeth on the rack. Hope this helps someone who has bought a SpeedPro, and saves them some headaches .


----------



## Dozer Man

*I Agree Very Much*



COUNTRY6543 said:


> As for thoughs who keep condeming us for buying such a cheap peice of crap... I would appreciate you moving your comments elsewhere. I do not believe that the SS or the DR is worth the price you paid. There is not 3000.00 worth of steel or machining in these units. As I also don't believe there is 1800.00 worth of steel in the Speedpro. Know doubt the Kohler engine on these came from China also and probable cost about 100.00 or so. I did not know this was chinese before I bought it. I thought it was from Colorado and thought someone got there act together. I was wrong and now have to deal with it. I really feel that a company could put one of these units together for 1/3 to 1/4 the price paid and still have a very good product with quality steel and make a profit selling them for 1500.00 or so.




:msp_thumbup:


----------



## ziggo_2

Looks like i offended some....let me clarify, im not condeming anyone for trying to save a buck. This is a speeco problem, plain and simple. They shouldve did more research and development instead of copy and paste. I believe that speeco will do the right thing here. But only for so long. If you only split a cord a year with it it could last awhile, then when it does break they may not fix it. 

I didnt read all 28 pages of this thread but the tid bits that i did read make it sound like all the problems are either manufacturing or design flaws. Dont beat yourself up over it. take it back.

Dont get me wrong any metal on metal and especially gears should be lubed...but...if its defective metal no amount of lube is gonna help. True it may prolong it, Do you want it broke while under warranty or not?

Wernt they recalled?

Buyer beware is all im getting at.


----------



## sunfish

COUNTRY6543 said:


> I don't know if anyone else is experienceing this but I know exactly when I bend my engagement rod. *I hit a hard knot or fork and the rack disengages the pinion with an extreme amount of force, so hard that if you have your hand on the handle that it hurts during kickback.* With this force I know this is when the rod bends. This is also probable when others are experiencing the broken rack. I checked my rack and it does not seem to be worn or hurt. I think so far my engagement rod is the week link.
> 
> As for thoughs who keep condeming us for buying such a cheap peice of crap... I would appreciate you moving your comments elsewhere. I do not believe that the SS or the DR is worth the price you paid. There is not 3000.00 worth of steel or machining in these units. As I also don't believe there is 1800.00 worth of steel in the Speedpro. Know doubt the Kohler engine on these came from China also and probable cost about 100.00 or so. I did not know this was chinese before I bought it. I thought it was from Colorado and thought someone got there act together. I was wrong and now have to deal with it. I really feel that a company could put one of these units together for 1/3 to 1/4 the price paid and still have a very good product with quality steel and make a profit selling them for 1500.00 or so.



My SS does not disengage when it hits something hard to split. The clutch and or belt slip and the ram stops. I then manually disengage and hit it again. That sudden disengage while the ram is moving under power is likely a *big problem* and could be part of the problems you guys are seeing with these machines. Hope y'all get it figured out.

BTW, I did not pay $3000 for my US made Super Split. Had it delivered to my door for less and worth every penny. :msp_wink:

No more comments from me here, on the price, quality issues, or country or manufacture...


----------



## COUNTRY6543

CMCCUL8146: I am having a hard time explaining what and when My machine acts up. You gave me some helpfull insight as to what to look for with the clutch. 98% of the time the machine hits a hard spot, slips the clutch, I disengage the rack (manually), hit it again and we have split wood. It's that 2% of the time that it hits something hard and the rack disengages with a hard slam. No rhimm or reason to it. As someone stated right now the engagement rod is the week link and I just want to try and figure it out before the rack becomes the week link. You told me to WD-40 the clutch, do I just spay it between the inner and outer drums. I really wonder if there is something going on with the clutch and it is not engaging that 2% of the time that it is supposed to. I am not that familiar with the way the clutches work. Is it possible that a small peice of rust or material could get lodged between the disks and lock it up. Thanks


----------



## COUNTRY6543

Oh... and by the way, Is a $50,000 dollar Cadillac twice as reliable as a $25,000 Honda. You spend twice as much so it should be twice as reliable correct?


----------



## MNGuns

philwillmt said:


> MNGuns,
> 
> I agree whole-heartedly with what you are saying, within reason, as long as one can afford the higher priced tools. However, one can go overboard with that philosophy too! Example: I don't see the need to buy Snap-On tools over Craftsman for a non-professional mechanic or casual user. To me, the application and frequency of use determine whether or not one can justify a lower quality tool or piece of equipment. If I were in the business of processing and selling firewood, then believe you me I would have invested in the highest quality splitter that I could find, and probably would have found a way to afford it. I only use my splitter for me and a few others, so I could not justify buying the most expensive model out there.




I do agree. I use hand tools a lot, but they don't feed the family. Craftsman tool have never let me down. If you want to get caught in the tool truck pay by week racket, got for it. But all them mass produced tools are punched out by the same chinese worker.


----------



## MNGuns

COUNTRY6543 said:


> Oh... and by the way, Is a $50,000 dollar Cadillac twice as reliable as a $25,000 Honda. You spend twice as much so it should be twice as reliable correct?



No, it is not,but...When you go to the bargain basement store, and spend cash on a machine that promises to do the same work as the more expensive machines for a whole lot less....should you really be surprised when the thing comes apart...?

Go look at a new Cat, Deere, Kubota, etc loader, hoe, skidder, etc....Then look at the Shindiggy, Taiwwawa, Erfmauwn brand.....tell me about the parts availability, reliability, resale value, etc....You get what you pay for regardless of the name, cost, how you nurse it along....you always get what you pay for.


----------



## Dozer Man

I did not realized TSC was a bargain basement store. They sell the same crap as other farm stores. I also thought that speeco made a good middle of the road splitter. I still think its just a teathing issue. Maybe speeco should have bought a couple Supersplits and just made copies of it. I guess that's been done though. 

Fyi...I believe most of craftsman hand tools are made in china now. I heard somewhere that the original makers of craftsman hand tools now makes kobolt. I haven't confirmed that rumor though.


----------



## COUNTRY6543

The Kinetic design is over thirty years old. Patents have long since expired. I have no idea why it has taken so long for others to jump on the band wagon and start trying to market these spliters. Seems that SS has been the only company that has been serious about this design throughout. 

Next, as everyone knows, How does a business introduce a new product to a competative market. They release a similiar model at an appealing price to boost sales. This is standard business. Speedco just forgot the part about making the product reliable. If they had hit the nail on the head in the first place they would have sold a ton of units. This thread could have just as easily been somthing like this ( I love my speedpro and saved a ton) If they would have only done a little more homework. 

Not everyone that splits wood or will split wood reads this forum so if they get the bugs worked early they might be able to save their hide and the new thread may be something like this . (The first run had problems but they are great now) Everyone has to realize they did not set out to create an inferior product. Bottom line is they are in it to make money and they ain't making much shipping all those units back for refitting, dealing with negative forums and bad sales. Their other products has to pick up the Speed Pro's slack.


----------



## KiwiBro

Yeah, there's a connection between price and quality, but too many idjits check their brains at the door or close 'em while opening their wallets and paying through the nose for premiums based on uncompetitive markets. 

It's some R&D (the back of which was broken about 30-ish years ago), some steel, a few flywheels and a small engine, for crying out loud. Parts can be bought off the shelf or easily made to suit - it's not like they've spent years developing unique, highly intricate and technical parts and in the case of SS who has been around a while, what the hell have they developed in the last, say, 10 years other than a wee bit of tweaking here and there while ignoring/avoiding the freak'n obvious lack of towing, top-heavy nature of their product? 

There's just no way anything approaching anything like $3k can be justified on a producers cost basis. On the value to the end user it could be for commercial users, but lets face it, if this site was for commercial users only, it would be largely a boring, circle-jerking waste of bandwidth for most of us who keep many of the sponsors earning returns on their sponsorship of AS.

Mistakes happen, simply because we are human, we rush, we don't check properly, etc. If Speeco had decided to charge $5k for their splitter, I'd wager the same mistake would have happened anyway b/c I don't for a second think it's a margin-desperation, cost-saving issue, rather, a human screw-up. Moreover, I'm very disappointed in Speeco's product from the perspective that they had the chance to show the market that a very worthwhile and durable splitter could make money for the producers at something around $2k or even less, without the premium loaded by competitors. They have thus far screwed that up and it's a shame we'll have to wait for them to get it sorted.

I suspect they have far too much to lose to not get it sorted, and reasonably quickly. They've undoubtedly proven the potential of the market to themselves with their first round of sales and their brand is too valuable to take the goodwill hit and not come back and prove to the market they want and can, put it right. I doubt Blount (owners of Speeco if I'm not mistaken) are happy about all this either.


----------



## ziggo_2

COUNTRY6543 said:


> Oh... and by the way, Is a $50,000 dollar Cadillac twice as reliable as a $25,000 Honda. You spend twice as much so it should be twice as reliable correct?




I hate hondas with a passion...lets not go there.


----------



## Peacock

COUNTRY6543 said:


> Oh... and by the way, Is a $50,000 dollar Cadillac twice as reliable as a $25,000 Honda. You spend twice as much so it should be twice as reliable correct?



I understand what you are saying, but no Caddy is HALF as reliable as a Honda Accord.


----------



## Peacock

MNGuns said:


> I do agree. I use hand tools a lot, but they don't feed the family. Craftsman tool have never let me down. If you want to get caught in the tool truck pay by week racket, got for it. But all them mass produced tools are punched out by the same chinese worker.




I have Craftsman tools at home. At work(Honda auto tech) I use Sanp-On, Mac and Matco tools. Broken way too many Craftsman tools to count on them at work.

I don't own any of the above hand tools that are made in China.


----------



## indiansprings

As a result of what's happened with the Speeco, it has left a huge void in the market for another company to bring out yet another version of the kinetic splitter. The profit margin being enjoyed by both Super Split and DR leaves ample room for another company to fill the void with quality made machine that could potentially sell for 30/40% less than either the SS or DR both of which are top notch excellent machines.
You'll prolly see MTD enter the market with a machine. Like many have said if you start costing out the components the machines are likely costing the mfgs, less than a thousand dollars in materials. I would anticipate that you'l see a company start shipping in the components broken down in containers from either China or India and assemble them here to save on freight, and take advantage of any duty loopholes that may exist. Then you use unskilled minimum wage labor to assemble them. It's just a matter of time before it happens. I don't agree with it, but it is inevitable, Paul and his predecessor at SuperSplit paved the way for all these other knockoffs, maybe if they would have had a good patent attorney, kept making operational changes in the machine, kept the patent a moving target it might have held the competition off for a few years. i just received the CD and marketing material from DR, I wonder how many poor sob's have fell for their "buy it on their credit plan" no payment for 6 months, then in fine print it shows that 24.99% interest starts after the six months, holy chit Martha, talk about legalized loan sharking. Put a pencil to 25% interest on the unpaid balance on those babies.
I really need one of these type splitters, the only thing that has held me back is I just don't know if we are going to run our wood business after this year, my health is up and down, I have to depend on the boys to run it on a daily basis and they are starting to have other opportunities, but if I were going to by one tomorrow it would be a SuperSplit, for the 700-800.00 you are getting a machine that is proven, proven in hard commercial use, built in the USA by a man you can get on the phone, over the lifetime of the machine, prolly twenty years or more the extra 800.00 equates to about 40.00 a year more a hair over 3.00 a month. The bitter taste of marginal quality will last much longer than the sweetness of what was thought to be a bargain. I learned the hard lesson 35 years ago with a cheap tool set, I learned to save and buy only when I had the funds to get what I really wanted, I seldom ever have to replace Wiha,Wera,S&K,Knipex,Klein Craftsmen or Snap-On tools, they were a long term investment. 
Speeco will get it figured out, they know the demand is there, they rushed in without the proper testing on the front side, or partnered up with the wrong Chinese factory, they'll get the issues ironed out, the heat treating down and hopefully make it right with those who laid down their hard earned cash. But I think you'll see many variations of these machines that hit the market in the next yeat, some better than others.


----------



## Dozer Man

*Then lets use a different approach...*



ziggo_2 said:


> I hate hondas with a passion...lets not go there.


 

Is a Cadillac Escalade any better vehicle that a Tahoe? Suburban? Yukon? Avalanche?? 
Well, some would say they are nicer looking and have more bells and whistles. 
But will it tow your boat better because it's a Caddy? No, it won't. 
Will the Lincoln/Mercury trucks tow better than the Ford truck?? No, they won't. 

I've always wanted an SS. But I've always thought they were way overpriced too. After watching several videos and break downs of the machine, I actually thought about building one myself. There just aren't that many hard parts to purchase. I didn't think it would be any more expensive to build a kinetic splitter than a to build a hydraulic. Obviously I never got around to building and bought the speedpro instead.

Cmccul8146 built his own kinetic splitter. I wonder how much he has invested in his project. If memory serves me right, from reading his thread, I don't think he made a substantial investment. Hopefully he will tell us. 

MNGuns...Nobody is knocking the SuperSplit, it's the industry standard for kinetic splitters. And has been, without much competition, for many years. Now there is some competion out there and I don't think you like it. I'm guessing that is why you like bashing the teathing issues of the speedpro so much. I'm sure you will be the first to bash the DR rapidfire (rapidSplit??) if and when they have any problems.


----------



## ziggo_2

Dozer Man said:


> Is a Cadillac Escalade any better vehicle that a Tahoe? Suburban? Yukon? Avalanche??
> Well, some would say they are nicer but looking and have more bells and whistles.
> But will it tow your boat better because it's a Caddy? No, it won't.
> Will the Lincoln/Mercury trucks tow better than the Ford truck?? No, they won't.
> 
> I've always wanted an SS. But I've always thought they were way overpriced too. After watching several videos and break downs of the machine, I actually thought about building one myself. There just aren't that many hard parts to purchase. I didn't think it would be any more expensive to build a kinetic splitter than a to build a hydraulic. Obviously I never got around to building and bought the speedpro instead.
> 
> Cmccul8146 built his own kinetic splitter. I wonder how much he has invested in his project. If memory serves me right, from reading his thread, I don't think he made a substantial investment. Hopefully he will tell us.
> 
> MNGuns...Nobody is knocking the SuperSplit, it's the industry standard for kinetic splitters. And has been, without much competition, for many years. Now there is some competion out there and I don't think you like it. I'm sure you will be the first to bash the DR rapidfire (rapidSplit??) if and when they have any problems.



Let me try this again....Speeco screwed up! 

If you think speeco makes it just as good as supersplit then why are the speecos breaking in two months?

Are the supersplits overpriced? maybe...i dont care, im not buying either. I dont like the kinetic splitters, never have. Slamming gears together every 3seconds doesnt sound good to my ears. Why would anybody need that kind of speed anyways. If two people are working as fast as they can around that thing, mistakes are bound to happen. I dont care what anybody says. If someone trips and get their hand or face in the way, there is noway youll get it stopped fast enough.

The fact that the supersplits dont break gears too simply amazes me....apparently they spent more money in research and development to get it right maybe thats why they cost more.

Ive seen the DR model...looks identical. supersplit patent probably expired, and they couldnt get a new one so the design was sold to DR. 

Ive seen the speecos operate. You can tell they dont split as smooth as any other. Not to mention they sound like a tool chest falling down a flight of stairs.

Why are you trying to play detective on this?....take it back and let speeco fix this problem.

For the record I think speeco make a decent hydraulic splitter, they just got in over their heads on this one.

Buyer beware, especially nowadays.


----------



## sunfish

ziggo_2 said:


> Ive seen the DR model...looks identical. supersplit patent probably expired, and they couldnt get a new one so the design was sold to DR.



I'm not sure if SS ever had a patent, but you're right, if they did it surely expired. However, I do know that SS did not sell the design to DR. DR bought two machines from SS and copied them.


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## ziggo_2

sunfish said:


> I'm not sure if SS ever had a patent, but you're right, if they did it surely expired. However, I do know that SS did not sell the design to DR. DR bought two machines from SS and copied them.



Could be....i dont know for sure.

I also think DR products are overpriced. Speecos are priced right. however they seem to cut corners to keep the price low.


----------



## philwillmt

Cmccul8146 said:


> COUNTRY6543 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know exactly when I bend my engagement rod. I hit a hard knot or fork and the rack disengages the pinion with an extreme amount of force, so hard that if you have your hand on the handle that it hurts during kickback.
> 
> 
> Country, I haven't seen one of the SpeedPro splitters, but what you're describing as to when you bend the engagement rod should not be happening at all. The SS, DR, and my homebuilt splitter aren't built to AUTOMATICALLY disengage when you hit a knot , "hard spot",twisted stringy stuff, or whatever. The centrifugal clutch SHOULD SLIP, and the flywheels stall. You should have to MANUALLY disengage the gears, & springs pull rack back to "home' position. From what you are saying, your clutch is not slipping as it should. Spray a little WD-40 on the shoes to help them to slip. I have read some comments here on AS about rust on some areas of the SpeedPro splitters. Possible that the clutches have rusted up from the salty air while crossing the pond and are not slipping well enough. If that's the case, there may not be a problem with the gear hardness . If that clutch doesn't slip, something has got to give , & it'll likely be the teeth on the rack. Hope this helps someone who has bought a SpeedPro, and saves them some headaches .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cmccul8146,
> 
> I agree...very good points! Thanks! My splitter has popped the handle up and retracted automatically one time, and it was when I hit something hard. I agree that the clutch should simply slip. I think I'll try lubing my clutch and see what happens...the worst it can do is slip!
Click to expand...


----------



## philwillmt

Fyi...I believe most of craftsman hand tools are made in china now. I heard somewhere that the original makers of craftsman hand tools now makes kobolt. I haven't confirmed that rumor though.[/QUOTE]

I was thinking that Snap-On was the original manufacturer of Kobalt???


----------



## Dozer Man

ziggo_2 said:


> Let me try this again....Speeco screwed up!
> 
> If you think speeco makes it just as good as supersplit then why are the speecos breaking in two months?
> 
> Are the supersplits overpriced? maybe...i dont care, im not buying either. I dont like the kinetic splitters, never have. Slamming gears together every 3seconds doesnt sound good to my ears. Why would anybody need that kind of speed anyways. If two people are working as fast as they can around that thing, mistakes are bound to happen. I dont care what anybody says. If someone trips and get their hand or face in the way, there is noway youll get it stopped fast enough.
> 
> The fact that the supersplits dont break gears too simply amazes me....apparently they spent more money in research and development to get it right maybe thats why they cost more.
> 
> Ive seen the DR model...looks identical. supersplit patent probably expired, and they couldnt get a new one so the design was sold to DR.
> 
> Ive seen the speecos operate. You can tell they dont split as smooth as any other. Not to mention they sound like a tool chest falling down a flight of stairs.
> 
> Why are you trying to play detective on this?....take it back and let speeco fix this problem.
> 
> For the record I think speeco make a decent hydraulic splitter, they just got in over their heads on this one.
> 
> Buyer beware, especially nowadays.




The reason we don't want to return them is because we like them very much! Believe me, if I have problems with my splitter, and they still don't have the issue resolved, then I will think about returning it. I also might think about just fixing it myself. And I don't think I'm alone in my thoughts either.

Why ??? Because after splitting with a kinetic splitter, we can't go back to a hydraulic. It's just too slow. And also because I don't have a grand for spending on the difference to an SS. If I take it back then my only option is a 34ton hydro and that just doesn't thrill me at all.

And as for the safety of a kinetic splitter...It's still the same safety issue whether you split with a hydro or even an ax...Complacency is your worst enemy. PAY ATTENTION !!! It doesn't matter if a train is coming at you at 8mph or 80mph, if you aren't paying attention, its gonna hurt you!! 

Buyer beware???(fyi-they aren't selling them now). Na...just hurry up and fix the dang thing!!! 

btw...Do you think the first SS splitters put on the market (30 yrs ago) had any teathing issues?? Or were they perfect from the getgo? idk maybe they were.


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## philwillmt

*Just installed tachometer/RPM device on SpeedPro*

I just installed a tachometer/hour meter on my SpeedPro splitter...sweet! Now I can know exactly when to service my engine. Also, out of curiosity, I timed the complete cycle on my machine...I got a consistent 1.3 to 1.4 seconds! Much faster than the advertised 2.5 seconds! I need to cut some more wood so I can put some more hours on this baby!


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## COUNTRY6543

Philwillmt: If your machine keeps popping the handle it will eventially not engage the rack and pinion. If this happens take the saftey side sheild off and look at the rod between the handle and the engagement lever. It will probable be bent. This is what I believe is the ultimate problem with the machine. If you can figure out why the handle slamms /pops then you have probable figured out the design flaw in these machines. I definately believe this is what is breaking the racks.


----------



## TFPace

*Tach question*

Phil,

Are you using the TinyTach meter on your machine?

Where did you buy it?

Thanks,

Tom


----------



## philwillmt

TFPace said:


> Phil,
> 
> Are you using the TinyTach meter on your machine?
> 
> Where did you buy it?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Tom



It is an ENM brand, PT 14 Series, item number 160590...purchased from Northern Tool & Equipment. Easy to install. While testing the new tachometer, and out of curiosity, I purposely placed a very knotty piece of cottonwood on the cradle and tried splitting it. To my surprise, the push ram disengaged violently, automatically, four times in a row! I'm glad I didn't have my hand on the engagement handle! This was AFTER I sprayed WD-40 on the clutch. I don't think this should be happening! It doesn't appear that the push rod has any bend to it, but I'm surprised it doesn't based on the loud pop from the automatic push rod disengagement!


----------



## philwillmt

Rack/Pinion Lube...What grease would you all recommend for the rack? Bearing grease? Moly? Corn picker grease? BlackJack? Lithium? Marine grease?? Someone said axle grease, is that the same as wheel bearing grease?? I was thinking of using regular moly grease, although I still have a couple tubes of Ce##### synthetic grease (which I will be using on the flywheel bearings). It's real sticky and stringy. Opinions are appreciated greatly.[/QUOTE]

I used a synthetic based grease...simply because it was what I had available. I don't believe the type of grease is all that important, as long as the rack and pinion gears have some type of lubricant on them. In my opinion, a thick chain lube (something that would adhere well) would be a good choice. But again, I think most any type of grease would be sufficient.


----------



## COUNTRY6543

This is exactly what I am talking about! If that can't break a rack I don't know what would. I emailed the company tonight while I was sitting here. I told them about the disengagement and asked if they knew the problem and how to remedy it. Waiting on a reply, will post what I hear.


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## COUNTRY6543

Phil: I read your post again. The push ram/ rack isn't what bends. Its the rod that connects the handle to the engagement. It's about 3/8 in diameter.


----------



## CampHamp

There's a piece of metal welded onto the engagement rod, just under the hood. I was told by the TSC sales guy (who was removing a bent rod at the time from the demo unit) that a certain amount of force on this flange causes disengagement. If that's so, these things are designed to "pop" as a release mechanism.

Maybe the SpeeCo engineers thought "we can run our machines much faster than the SS, but then we need to have a release if this thing hits something hard". That mechanism seems highly variable (by reading this thread) and some have no disengagement at all. And, you're probably fighting the release mechanism if you're pushing the handle real hard during a "pop" and bending the rod... 

If this release worked properly, then maybe there would be no problems with racks or bending rods (and it could have even been a better mousetrap).

So, do people think that stronger racks will solve the problems?

I think they're wasting money sending out new racks (if this is even true). I think they'll need a new release mechanism altogether if they want to spin the flywheels so fast. The simplest retrofit for them might be to slow those wheels down and take that release flange off.


----------



## KiwiBro

Are the flywheels spinning that much faster than the others or is it the pinion gearing or?
What happens when a too-hard bit of wood is hit? Surely there's some controlled release needed rather than the impact blowing something apart? The clutch won't release until the revs die slow down so that's not likely to take the sudden excessive impact. will the flywheel belts slip instead? Or should they all be designed so the rack will disengage or 'pop' off over a certain shock-loading limit, or do owners hope like hell it's all strong enough to handle the impact until the revs die off enough for the clutch to slip, without firing shrapnel in all directions?


----------



## sunfish

CampHamp said:


> There's a piece of metal welded onto the engagement rod, just under the hood. I was told by the TSC sales guy (who was removing a bent rod at the time from the demo unit) that a certain amount of force on this flange causes disengagement. * If that's so, these things are designed to "pop" as a release mechanism.*



That would be like forcing your truck out of gear (standard trans), without pushing in the clutch, while pulling a heavy load uphill. After a few times, stuff is going to break. Something is causing the rack to want to separate from the pinon when the ram hits a hard to split piece. Fix this and I think it'll be OK.


----------



## CampHamp

KiwiBro said:


> Are the flywheels spinning that much faster than the others or is it the pinion gearing or?


The ram moves much faster than the SS and DR - the difference could be gearing or flywheel speed. I would like to know, too. Anyone? Either way, if you slow the flywheels, then there would be less momentum to halt on hard impact... (and with the taller blade on the SpeedPro, there are stronger impacts to contend with).



KiwiBro said:


> What happens when a too-hard bit of wood is hit? Surely there's some controlled release needed rather than the impact blowing something apart?


I think the flywheels must stop turning with the DR and SS (no disengagement). But with the SpeedPro, the wheels can keep turning if the engagement "pops" properly. Someone let me know if I've got this wrong. My point is that if the engagement doesn't "pop" as designed on the SpeedPro, then the teeth will break because the ram is running at hyperspeed.




KiwiBro said:


> Or should they all be designed so the rack will disengage or 'pop' off over a certain shock-loading limit, or do owners hope like hell it's all strong enough to handle the impact until the revs die off enough for the clutch to slip, without firing shrapnel in all directions?


I'd like to see a clutch provide slippage between the pinion and flywheels to provide a reliable, consistant circuit-breaker (especially if you go for a fast ram speed).


----------



## COUNTRY6543

You guys are definately on the right track. The whole factory disengagement is not right though. I have totally gutted my saftey and pulled the factory 3/8 rod out and reinstalled a straight 1/2 inch rod and it has still bent the 1/2 rod. The machine does not do it all the time. If I split for 4-5 hours it might do it once in that time period. I do believe there is faster gearing though in these machines. There is some reason the machine and clutch are not in sinc. If any of you have every had if disengage it will scare the tar out of you and you know something happened. Thanks for the help, you guys are giving me a new perspective on what to look at. Keep the ideas coming.


----------



## philwillmt

COUNTRY6543 said:


> Phil: I read your post again. The push ram/ rack isn't what bends. Its the rod that connects the handle to the engagement. It's about 3/8 in diameter.



COUNTRY6543,

You are correct...I meant to say the connection rod, not the ram (rack gear). I'm surprised the pin that connects the rod to the handle didn't shear off!


----------



## philwillmt

CampHamp said:


> I'd like to see a clutch provide slippage between the pinion and flywheels to provide a reliable, consistant circuit-breaker (especially if you go for a fast ram speed).



Maybe they should put a clutch inside the flywheels to allow them to slip and spin around the pinion gear shaft after a hard strike? Seems that might provide a smooth, more consistent slippage. Or, maybe they should not key the flywheels to the pinion gear shaft, and just torque the bolts on the ends of the pinion gear shaft to a setting that would allow the flywheels to spin around the shaft after a hard strike. This would require a stepped down shaft, or shoulder, so that the flywheels would not be putting thrust on the pinion shaft bearings. If the shaft had a shoulder, you could use a cupped washer on the ends to apply pressure to the flywheels, but not so much that they couldn't slip if they needed to. In other words, the washer would act as a clutch. Maybe I should just design a new splitter! :msp_sneaky:


----------



## Dozer Man

*woke up and can't get back to sleep*

Last weekend I had my first violent misfire. I've had very few misfires but none like this one. It was on a short 10" endcut piece of knotty cherry. My first thought was that the shorter piece had something to do with it. But after running a couple more shorts and then longs I couldn't get it to happen again. I always run the engine at around half throttle just to slow things down. It always seemed to engage better so I've kept running that way. Imho there is no reason for the ram speed to be so high. I've thought about putting a larger clutch pulley on. That would lower the "gear ratio" which would slow things down. But then I was afraid it would be like down shifting a truck. The lower the gear the lower the speed, but the higher the torque/pulling power. Now after seeing the hard misfire in person, I'm not sure if a gear ratio reduction would help or amplify the dis-engagement issue. It might not disengage as often but when it does the engine speed will be higher into its torque range and exert more force. On the other hand, as Cmccul8146 asked me...Just because you lowered the gear ratio, why would you feel the need to run the engine at higher throttle settings, that defeats the purpose of slowing things down. I explained to him how I caught a lot of grief from others over the half throttle issue earlier in this thread. We could learn a lot by picking his brain.

Sorry for rambling, I hope someone finds it pertinant to the issue. I'm not sure if just replacing the rack is a complete fix. It seems to be an engagement/dis-engagement issue also. Some of you that have split large quantities with these, have you noticed a "bow" in the rack?? Just curious. 

If anyone has talked to speeco lately, I would really like to know there thoughts on all of this. I'm just getting to my "down time" at work, which is when I do most of my sawing/splitting. Metal gets brittle in the cold and I was hoping to have these issues resolved before winter. 

Again, thanks to all for there posts. Keep them coming, we'll get to the bottom of this!


Unrelated Issue: It can stop raining any time now!!!


----------



## ziggo_2

Dozer Man said:


> Last weekend I had my first violent misfire. I've had very few misfires but none like this one. It was on a short 10" endcut piece of knotty cherry. My first thought was that the shorter piece had something to do with it. But after running a couple more shorts and then longs I couldn't get it to happen again. I always run the engine at around half throttle just to slow things down. It always seemed to engage better so I've kept running that way. Imho there is no reason for the ram speed to be so high. I've thought about putting a larger clutch pulley on. That would lower the "gear ratio" which would slow things down. But then I was afraid it would be like down shifting a truck. The lower the gear the lower the speed, but the higher the torque/pulling power. Now after seeing the hard misfire in person, I'm not sure if a gear ratio reduction would help or amplify the dis-engagement issue. It might not disengage as often but when it does the engine speed will be higher into its torque range and exert more force. On the other hand, as Cmccul8146 asked me...Just because you lowered the gear ratio, why would you feel the need to run the engine at higher throttle settings, that defeats the purpose of slowing things down. I explained to him how I caught a lot of grief from others over the half throttle issue earlier in this thread. We could learn a lot by picking his brain.
> 
> Sorry for rambling, I hope someone finds it pertinant to the issue. I'm not sure if just replacing the rack is a complete fix. It seems to be an engagement/dis-engagement issue also. Some of you that have split large quantities with these, have you noticed a "bow" in the rack?? Just curious.
> 
> If anyone has talked to speeco lately, I would really like to know there thoughts on all of this. I'm just getting to my "down time" at work, which is when I do most of my sawing/splitting. Metal gets brittle in the cold and I was hoping to have these issues resolved before winter.
> 
> Again, thanks to all for there posts. Keep them coming, we'll get to the bottom of this!
> 
> 
> Unrelated Issue: It can stop raining any time now!!!



You can be as careful as you want and have undivided attention and still make mistakes.

SS dont cost a grand more. since your ordering online your saving the tax, which makes it about $600 more than the speeco. 600 dollars more for a proven splitter sounds like a better deal to me.

Is a stihl saw better than a wild thing? of course it is, thats why it costs more.

Heres something else to think about- speeco make them then sells them to tsc, so speeco already marked up the price so they could make a profit probaby 30% or maybe more. the tsc marks them up some more, at 30%. So if you deduct all that it would mean speecos cost to make them is around 800-900 dollars. So what did you really get for your money?

And why did you go out and buy the first one knowing that there was most likely going to be problems?

If it dont last as long as a SS or even a DR then no your not saving any money....And we already know it wont last. Pretty soon we will have post that sound similar to this: *I wish i wouldve saved for the SS instead of this piece of junk!*

If i was going to buy one it would be the SS purely out of respect to the man who started it all...Not to mention the proven reliability.

Buy a splitter for its speed then slow it down, that make a lot of sense.

You keep polishing that turd and see if it turns to gold. Im gonna go split some wood.

As for the people having problems, Trying to fix it yourself will most likely void warranty and then when the find a solution you will be screwed....again.


----------



## Dozer Man

*your math is off*

Again........I did my homework before purchase. You should too.
Speedpro: $1699+tax=$1818+/-
SS j model: $2600(w/table)+shipping(200-300)=$2800 plus!!!
DR Rapidfire:$2600+shipping(225+/-)=$2800 plus!!! (You should check your shipping price)
Thats a minimum of a grand difference any way you look at it. Sorry I needed a splitter now. I don't want a hydro unit. I worked my butt off to save the money for a splitter this year and I found the oportunity to buy a kinetic splitter for the price of a hydro. If speeco decides not to fix these and just recall them, then I will return it. Or I might just build my own engagement mechanism and buy my own hardened rack and fix this one myself. 

Ziggo,
If you haven't had the opportunity to split a truck load of wood with one of the speedpros, that didn't have problems, well then you just don't get it(1/3cord=+/-30min. loaded in the truck by myself). We that have used one extensively, love them. Yes, we could take them back and crap out a grand and get the SS. But for myself, I can't, and never could, justify the price of the SS. I think speedpro is overpriced too. If Speeco only has $6-800 in these machines, then DR and SS can't have much over a grand in there's(and no middle man). I would suggest that you go back and read the whole thread before you pass judgement. Fyi...I was one of the first to buy one of these, and although I haven't split as much wood as others, I have not had an issue so far. Trust me, I am concerned about the fix that speeco will make. But as long as they do fix it, and fix it right, then I'm still ahead by at least a grand. Btw...sometimes I do make my living with a chainsaw, that's why I buy Stihl(I don't make a living with a splitter). But just because I paid the extra premium for stihl doesn't mean you always get a perfect product. All brands will have an issue sometime, otherwise we wouldn't need a warranty (I got an 026 that's had carb and pickup issues since new).


----------



## ziggo_2

Dozer Man said:


> Again........I did my homwork before purchase. You should too.
> Speedpro: $1699+tax=$1818+/-
> SS j model: $2600(w/table)+shipping(200-300)=$2800 plus!!!
> DR Rapidfire:$2600+shipping(225+/-)=$2800 plus!!! (You should check your shipping price)
> Thats a minimum of a grand difference any way you look at it. Sorry I needed a splitter now. I don't want a hydro unit. I worked my butt off to save the money for a splitter this year and I found the oportunity to buy a kinetic splitter for the price of a hydro. If speeco decides not to fix these and just recall them, then I will return it. Or I might just build my own engagement mechanism and buy my own hardened rack and fix this one myself.
> 
> Ziggo,
> If you haven't had the opportunity to split a truck load of wood with one of the speedpros, that didn't have problems, well then you just don't get it(30+/- min. loaded in the truck by myself). We that have used one extensively, love them. Yes, we could take them back and crap out a grand and get the SS. But for myself, I can't, and never could, justify the price of the SS. I think speedpro is overpriced too. If Speeco only has $6-800 in these machines, then DR and SS can't have much over a grand in there's(and no middle man). I would suggest that you go back and read the whole thread before you pass judgement. Fyi...I was one of the first to buy one of these, and although I haven't split as much wood as others, I have not had an issue so far. Trust me, I am concerned about the fix that speeco will make. But as long as they do fix it, and fix it right, then I'm still ahead by at least a grand. Btw...sometimes I do make my living with a chainsaw, that's why I buy Stihl. But just because I paid the extra premium for stihl doesn't mean you always get a perfect product. All brands will have an issue sometime, otherwise we wouldn't need a warranty (I got an 026 that's had carb and pickup issues since new).



Sounds like you have all the answers already....good luck.


----------



## sunfish

Dozer Man said:


> Imho there is no reason for the ram speed to be so high. I've thought about putting a larger clutch pulley on. That would lower the "gear ratio" which would slow things down. But then I was afraid it would be like down shifting a truck. The lower the gear the lower the speed, but the higher the torque/pulling power.



A larger clutch pulley on the motor will increase the flywheel RPM, not decrease it. 

When I talked to Paul at SS about putting an electric motor on mine, he said "make sure not to exceed 300 RPM on the flywheel speed".

Slowing down the flywheel RPM will likely help the situation.


----------



## Dozer Man

*As do you...*



ziggo_2 said:


> Sounds like you have all the answers already....good luck.


Ziggo,
If you are right, it doesn't make me wrong... 
If I am right, then it doesn't make you wrong either... 

I just think that if the "teathing issues" on this machine are fixed, then I think it will be a good machine. Glass half full kinda crap I guess. I have to have faith in speeco, I don't have an extra grand for the SS (wife would shoot me...then kill me too!). And I don't wanna go back to a hydro unit.

I'm good, hope you are too...


----------



## Dozer Man

sunfish said:


> A larger clutch pulley on the motor will increase the flywheel RPM, not decrease it.
> 
> When I talked to Paul at SS about putting an electric motor on mine, he said "make sure not to exceed 300 RPM on the flywheel speed".
> 
> Slowing down the flywheel RPM will likely help the situation.




I think you are correct...Smaller sprocket in front(drive) raises the gear ratio on a motorcycle. I was thinkin the other way around. It's been 20 years since my m/c roadracing days, or maybe one too many cracked helmets. oops lol

I am thinking of a way to lower the flywheel speed...anyways. Thanks for the correction.


Distraction: Toby Keith "Red Solo Cup" video....hilarious!!!


----------



## sunfish

Dozer Man said:


> I think you are correct...Smaller sprocket in front(drive) raises the gear ratio on a motorcycle. I was thinkin the other way around. It's been 20 years since my m/c roadracing days, or maybe one too many cracked helmets. oops lol
> 
> I am thinking of a way to lower the flywheel speed...anyways. Thanks for the correction.
> 
> 
> Distraction: Toby Keith "Red Solo Cup" video....hilarious!!!



Yes, just measure the dia of the clutch pulley you have and see if you can find a smaller one. It would be a very easy swap and cheap too. I also don't feel the extra torque from the motor will be an issue, as the speed and weight of the flywheels is what makes these things work.


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## philwillmt

Dozer Man said:


> Last weekend I had my first violent misfire. I've had very few misfires but none like this one. It was on a short 10" endcut piece of knotty cherry. My first thought was that the shorter piece had something to do with it. But after running a couple more shorts and then longs I couldn't get it to happen again. *I always run the engine at around half throttle just to slow things down.* It always seemed to engage better so I've kept running that way. Imho there is no reason for the ram speed to be so high. *I've thought about putting a larger clutch pulley on. That would lower the "gear ratio" which would slow things down.* But then I was afraid it would be like down shifting a truck. The lower the gear the lower the speed, but the higher the torque/pulling power. Now after seeing the hard misfire in person, I'm not sure if a gear ratio reduction would help or amplify the dis-engagement issue. It might not disengage as often but when it does the engine speed will be higher into its torque range and exert more force. On the other hand, as Cmccul8146 asked me...Just because you lowered the gear ratio, why would you feel the need to run the engine at higher throttle settings, that defeats the purpose of slowing things down. I explained to him how I caught a lot of grief from others over the half throttle issue earlier in this thread. We could learn a lot by picking his brain.



Dozer Man,

I run my engine at around half speed also. I have actually tried running it slower than that, but I notice when I go much below half throttle, the clutch starts slipping and chattering. Evidently there is not enough centrifugal force at less than half throttle to overcome the spring tension on the clutch pads, thus they begin to retract and slip. 

If you are interested in slowing your flywheels down, you would want to install a smaller clutch instead of a larger one. Or, find some larger flywheels. But then you would _really_ have a hard time getting larger (heavier) flywheels stopped during a hard strike! 

If we keep troubleshooting this splitter, maybe eventually we will come up with a design of our own and enter the market!:hmm3grin2orange: I think another thing I would change would be the size of the engine...a 3 or 4 hp. would be more than enough to keep flywheels spinning! I even thought about incorporating one of those old "hit-and-miss" engines on one of these splitters! I'm sure that's where the kinetic flywheel idea originally came from anyway! It seems I remember someone on this thread talking about the SuperSplit being around for 30 years or so, and being the original designer of the kinetic splitter. While they may have been the first one to manufacture a kinetic splitter, the kinetic machine (A.K.A. "hit-and-miss" engine) has been around a lot longer than 30 years. We're not near as smart as we think we are these days!:eek2:


----------



## KiwiBro

Are SP's motors the 'splash' type that need the revs to lube adequately? Did the SP motor come with it's own manual that details any min' operating RPM?
On some conveyors, they use a small (I think it's something like 3.5HP) motor that has the reduction gear built into the engine, but they don't have the rapidly varying loads of one of these splitters, me thinks. Not sure of the ratio's though and whether it would die before imparting momentum to the flywheels when the pressure came on during tough but not impenetrable wood and it needed to keep flywheels from dropping their revs too much. It might stall too often?


----------



## Dozer Man

*speeco rep*



KiwiBro said:


> Are SP's motors the 'splash' type that need the revs to lube adequately? Did the SP motor come with it's own manual that details any min' operating RPM?
> On some conveyors, they use a small (I think it's something like 3.5HP) motor that has the reduction gear built into the engine, but they don't have the rapidly varying loads of one of these splitters, me thinks. Not sure of the ratio's though and whether it would die before imparting momentum to the flywheels when the pressure came on during tough but not impenetrable wood and it needed to keep flywheels from dropping their revs too much. It might stall too often?



When I heard about the stop sale issue, the first thing I did was call Speeco. The rep I talked to was very informative. While I had him on the phone for the obvious repair/recall reasons, I asked about throttle settings. He basically told me that his only concern would be making sure that you have enough rpm to make the clutch engage properly. Other than that he said set it where you want it. He said that if speeco wanted it to run at a predetermined rpm, they would have set it that way. Idk about the oil splash except that imho it has to splash oil at all rpm not just wot. 

I guess I think of it more like a mini-bike. It's only under load for brief moments and I certainly wouldn't want my 5yr old running it WOT all the time. 

Just my thoughts anyways.


----------



## COUNTRY6543

*Fixed: I hope*

Ok folks, I did alot of R/D tonight. It is raining..AGAIN, so I brought the splitter in the garage and tore it down. I think I got the bent rod issue figured out. If you tear into this thing you will see that the engagement rod goes through the cover and then down through another peice of steel and then down to the engagement cam. When the splitter violently disengages it throws that cam upward. There is no stop to keep the cam from traveling up and over center and forcing the center of the rod foreward into the the center peice of steel that it goes through. When this occurs the rod bends where it goes through the center steel plate. Then the machine does not want to engage. What I did was take the steel peice off that the cover attaches to and made the hole much larger for the rod to go through. This allows the rod to travel foreward during violent disengagement and not hit the front of the steel plate. I also took a 3/8x5 bolt and ran it horizontally just above the engagement cam and covered it in plastic fuel line for a buffer. When the machine disengages and throws the cam up it will hit the bolt and not be allowed to travel over center thus protecting the engagement rod from violent foreward travel. By the way, I did have to take the driver's side flywheel off to make the mods. 

Next I pulled up the DR/SS pictures and looked at there cam engagement. Both machines force their engagement cam overcenter and it appears that the user has to disengage the machine before rearward travel is obtained. If you look at our cam engagement it looks as though the cam engagement is stopped at 90 degrees and not over center. There is a rod that stops the cam from going over center. If that rod/stop was moved ahead about an 1/8 to 1/4 inch it would allow overcenter engagement and be a more secure lockup. I have not moved the cam engagement foreward yet because it looks like it's going to take so doing. I took some pictures along the way and am going to try and figure out how to get them on here. Took it out to the wood pile and tried to find the narliest nastiest wood I had and it split no problems. Before I move the cam stop I want to try this first and see if I am on the right track. I hope you all can follow this. It's hard to put this stuff in words. 

By the way Ziggo2, I am getting about sick of your, you bought crap and should have researched more, comments. As I see it you don't even have one of these splitters and are just taking up valuable thread space. If you don't have anything to contribute, other than arguing then I would appreciate keeping comments to yourself.


----------



## Dozer Man

*On right track*

Country, 
You are definitely on the right track. You are delving in a lot farther than I have. But I've looked at the picks of the DR and SS engagement mechanism and was going to see how the speedpro compared. I seen that they have an adjustible "stop". I believe it is to stop the cam AFTER it breaks overcenter. That is where I was going to start. I don't believe these things should be disengaging except at the end of the cycle. From what I've read, none of the others disengage. They stall the flywheels and the clutch lets the engine keep going until it's manually disengaged. The other issue I'm looking into is flywheel speed. Hope to see your pics when you can. 

Great right up and I agree with you about ziggo. I'm not sure he realizes this thread is 30+ pages old and that TSC has stopped selling the speedpro. So there is no reason to try and deter buyers. Most of us still writing in this thread have made a decision or commitment to follow through with this thing. We are trying to discuss fixes for the issues. With things happening the way they are none of us can hardly recommend the speedpro for purchase, at least for now. I'm sure we all hope to be able to recommend this machine soon though. When speeco gets the issues fixed, I'm hoping we can look back on this as first run issues that were properly resolved. Maybe even say we had a hand in it, who knows.


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## COUNTRY6543

If you guys look there has been over 33,000 views on this thread. That is alot of people for this. I don't know how you all feel but someone should start a new thread about Speed Pro fixes and start discussion on possible fixes for this machine. I really would like to know how many of these machines are out there right now. I often wonder how many people will or have came to this board looking for answers and right now there is only a handfull of us that are sticking it out. Ha... going where no man has gone before. 

Dozer, I completely understand where you are coming from when you say that you believe in this machine and really want it to work. I am there with you and as long as parts don't start flying, I am going to see this thing through. Oh and btw I had a 10% coupon from TSC so mine was about 1550.00 making the SS and DR over a grand more. Right now I have 1.42 in parts from, you guessed it TSC.


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## Oneslackr

I was originally looking at perhaps buying one of these splitters for my dad so I've been following this thread closely & have read every single post. I got curious as to what had happened since I had originally seen the SpeedPro in a TSC flier but then couldn't find it on the TSC or Speeco website. I certainly hope Speeco comes through for you guys and makes things right. Now I'm back to looking at hydraulic splitters for my dad, because a DR or SS is over priced for what he would use it for. 

FWIW, I don't think anyone is an idiot for buying one of these splitters or for trying to save some of their hard earned money instead of spending it on a DR or SS. Some might have more money than they know what to do with but for most people money doesn't grow on trees. I don't see the need to put others down for trying to live within their means or for trying to save $1k or so. I guess some people need to put others down so they can feel better about themselves, usually people who are insecure or have deep seeded inferiority issues.


----------



## BILLSFIREWOOD

Oneslackr said:


> I was originally looking at perhaps buying one of these splitters for my dad so I've been following this thread closely & have read every single post. I got curious as to what had happened since I had originally seen the SpeedPro in a TSC flier but then couldn't find it on the TSC or Speeco website. I certainly hope Speeco comes through for you guys and makes things right. Now I'm back to looking at hydraulic splitters for my dad, because a DR or SS is over priced for what he would use it for.
> 
> FWIW, I don't think anyone is an idiot for buying one of these splitters or for trying save some of their hard earned money instead of spending it on a DR or SS. Some might have more money than they know what to do with but for most people money doesn't grow on trees. I don't see the need to put others down for trying to live within their means or for trying to save $1k or so. I guess some people need to put others down so they can feel better about themselves, usually people who are insecure or have deep seeded inferiority issues.



Good one. You are right.


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## D&B Mack

Oneslackr said:


> I was originally looking at perhaps buying one of these splitters for my dad so I've been following this thread closely & have read every single post. I got curious as to what had happened since I had originally seen the SpeedPro in a TSC flier but then couldn't find it on the TSC or Speeco website. I certainly hope Speeco comes through for you guys and makes things right. Now I'm back to looking at hydraulic splitters for my dad, because a DR or SS is over priced for what he would use it for.
> 
> FWIW, I don't think anyone is an idiot for buying one of these splitters or for trying save some of their hard earned money instead of spending it on a DR or SS. Some might have more money than they know what to do with but for most people money doesn't grow on trees. I don't see the need to put others down for trying to live within their means or for trying to save $1k or so. I guess some people need to put others down so they can feel better about themselves, usually people who are insecure or have deep seeded inferiority issues.



First off, there is no reason for anyone to knock someone for paying less for something. It is each individual's choice. I own the DR, but only because of this thread/website, if others would not have reported back so thoroughly, three days later I would have been a SpeedPro owner.

You do get what you pay for, BUT, not directed at the end consumer. The real point of this statement should be directed at SpeeCo. I can't even imagine they did not do a few test runs before shipping these units out to stores.

SpeeCo promised a machine, for a determined price, to a consumer in order to produce the product. The consumer is not to blame, SpeeCo is. They chose to buy cheap/inferior steel (regardless of where it is from) and then never tested it.

I can tell you what happened (I would be willing to bet). SpeeCo had the rack and pinion made locally on a few units and tested them. They then sent the specs out to bid, a ChiCom company was low bid. So SpeeCo said 'make X amount' to this spec. They then packaged and shipped without assembling one unit and test running it.


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## sunfish

Oneslackr said:


> FWIW, I don't think anyone is an idiot for buying one of these splitters or for trying save some of their hard earned money instead of spending it on a DR or SS. Some might have more money than they know what to do with but for most people money doesn't grow on trees. I don't see the need to put others down for trying to live within their means or for trying to save $1k or so. I guess some people need to put others down so they can feel better about themselves, usually people who are insecure or have deep seeded inferiority issues.



Right, and no one is an idiot for spending $1000 more on something else. Goes both ways...

No, I do not have more money than I know what to do with... :msp_smile:


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## Oneslackr

sunfish said:


> Right, and no one is an idiot for spending $1000 more on somthing else. Goes both ways...
> 
> No, I do not have more money than I know what to do with... :msp_smile:



LOL. Ok. Now someone from the DR/SS camp is getting their knickers twisted in knots after reading my previous post. I don't think there has been one post in this entire thread, including my previous post, were someone implied that people were idiots for spending an extra $1000 for a DR or SS. Yes they cost more than a SpeedPro but they are also higher quality machines than the SpeedPro. I don't believe anyone is questioning that fact. 

However, people have definitely made posts in this thread that implied that people are idiots for buying a SpeedPro and that isn't right. That was all I was pointing out. 

Now this is how a kinetic machine should work. It seems to have all of the features that an individual or small crew would need: 

firewoodinator from LogRite - YouTube 

I wonder how much it costs?

It isn't some crazy/huge/expensive wood processing machine like this: 

Palax Power100S Firewood Processor version 02 - YouTube


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## Denny M

Just my 2 cents. I have read thie entire thread with interest. I have been thinking about 1 of these splitters for a few years and in August I ordered a Flack Hill Machine. Rght after that I saw where DR and Speedco came out with 1, I may have bought a Speedco if I had known about them, like someone said money doesn't grow on trees. Don't get me wrong I am very happy with my purchase. I have not been home much lately and only have 4.5 hours on this machine so I am far from an expert but I will offer my opinion. I think Country6543 and DB Mack are on the right track. My machine has a locked in place throttle ( 4hp Honda) set at 2800 rpm. The manufacture does not want it running any faster because as I understand it it can be hard on the gears. The throtttle can be adjusted and locked down, I put a nice 40 dollar rpm/tach on mine and can keep the rpm where it needs to be if it ever needs adjusted. I have watched the Speedpro vids and it seems very fast, this would be based on flywheel rpm and pinion diameter, I think my pinion diameter is 1 and 3/8ths inches. The engagement on mine goes slightly over center so you can let go of the handle, too much over center and the rack will start to move away from the pinion and increase the backlash of the gears, there is an adjustable bolt to control this. Also when mine stalls the ram it does not disengage it stalls the flywheels and the engine clutch slips until you manually disengage the lever yourself, maybe easier on the gears. Also the manufacture recomends applying grease to the gears. Hope this may help you.


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## COUNTRY6543

That's what makes this country great, the fact that I can buy what I want and you can buy what you want. I needed a splitter, TSC is a mile down the road and I jumped. I looked at the design and felt confident that if anything were to need fixed I was more than capable of fixing it. I also knew the warranty was there and if I needed to use it I could and if I didn't that was a bonus. My situation, My money, My choice. I believe Dozer and I feel just about the same.


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## COUNTRY6543

I hope this works. Trying to upload photos of my mods.


----------



## COUNTRY6543

For all you that don't have a SpeedPro, This is far from the factory setup. The rod is a half inch rod that I replaced from the original factory 3/8. The rod and tube at the bottom is the buffer I made to keep the cam from jumping over center. Someone let me know if those pics are there. I am new at this. Give me a Hammer, welder and cutting torch and I will build you a small city, give me a computer and I will give you a blank stare.


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## Oneslackr

sunfish said:


> Right, and no one is an idiot for spending $1000 more on something else. Goes both ways...
> 
> No, I do not have more money than I know what to do with... :msp_smile:



LOL. Ok. It seems that someone from the DR/SS camp has their knickers twisted into a knot based on my previous post. I don't think there is 1 post in this thread, including my previous post, that implied that spending $1000 more for a DR/SS made someone an idiot. We're all aware that the DR & SS machines cost more and are higher quality than the SpeedPro is. I don't think anyone disputes that or thinks that someone who bought a DR/SS is some kind of dummy. 

However, there have been posts in this thread that did imply that people who purchased the SpeedPro were idiots and that isn't right. That was all I was trying to point out in my previous post. 

I saw a video on YouTube that showed a nice little kinetic machine that worked like it was supposed to & it seems it would be great for 1 person or a small crew. I tried to post the link earlier but I guess that isn't allowed on this site, since my post never appeared. So if you look on YouTube & search for firewoodinator you should find the short 2:06 video for it. I wonder how much something like that costs? It does more than a regular splitter but it isn't some big/crazy/very expensive industrial size wood processing machine either.


----------



## Dozer Man

*Pics look good*

Pics came through fine.

Country, your pics look good. I see from them what you did with the "cross bolt" to stop the cam from kicking up. I want to tear mine down to get a look at the "cam stop". After rereading your post from last night, and others from today, I can't help but wonder if that isn't one of the big issues also.


----------



## Dozer Man

*Logrite firewoodinator!!!*



Oneslackr said:


> LOL. Ok. It seems that someone from the DR/SS camp has their knickers twisted into a knot based on my previous post. I don't think there is 1 post in this thread, including my previous post, that implied that spending $1000 more for a DR/SS made someone an idiot. We're all aware that the DR & SS machines cost more and are higher quality than the SpeedPro is. I don't think anyone disputes that or thinks that someone who bought a DR/SS is some kind of dummy.
> 
> However, there have been posts in this thread that did imply that people who purchased the SpeedPro were idiots and that isn't right. That was all I was trying to point out in my previous post.
> 
> I saw a video on YouTube that showed a nice little kinetic machine that worked like it was supposed to & it seems it would be great for 1 person or a small crew. I tried to post the link earlier but I guess that isn't allowed on this site, since my post never appeared. So if you look on YouTube & search for firewoodinator you should find the short 2:06 video for it. I wonder how much something like that costs? It does more than a regular splitter but it isn't some big/crazy/very expensive industrial size wood processing machine either.



The LogRite machine is a badxxx setup. I've seen video's of it before (although I don't remember hearing "firewoodinator" before). I read somewhere on AS that it sells for around $10k. Not sure about the price but it is one heck of a setup for serious production. 

Thanks for the post, and I agree. I can't knock the SS splitters at all. They are the kinetic splitter of which all kinetics will be compared. As for the DR, they copied a great machine and time will tell if they did it right, so far so good though. 

I "try" to go by the age old adage of...If you don't have anything nice to say, it's better to not say anything at all (iow...keep your xxxxxxx mouth shut!). Ok, I said I try!!!


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## sunfish

Oneslackr said:


> LOL. Ok. It seems that someone from the DR/SS camp has their knickers twisted into a knot based on my previous post. I don't think there is 1 post in this thread, including my previous post, that implied that spending $1000 more for a DR/SS made someone an idiot. We're all aware that the DR & SS machines cost more and are higher quality than the SpeedPro is. I don't think anyone disputes that or thinks that someone who bought a DR/SS is some kind of dummy.
> 
> However, there have been posts in this thread that did imply that people who purchased the SpeedPro were idiots and that isn't right. That was all I was trying to point out in my previous post.
> 
> I saw a video on YouTube that showed a nice little kinetic machine that worked like it was supposed to & it seems it would be great for 1 person or a small crew. I tried to post the link earlier but I guess that isn't allowed on this site, since my post never appeared. So if you look on YouTube & search for firewoodinator you should find the short 2:06 video for it. I wonder how much something like that costs? It does more than a regular splitter but it isn't some big/crazy/very expensive industrial size wood processing machine either.



No Knickers in a knot here. I get your point and I might have read a bit more into your post than was there. Just had to comment on my money tree. 

Oh and welcome to the site, this is a good place...


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## TFPace

Nice improvement Country


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## Oneslackr

sunfish said:


> No Knickers in a knot here. I get your point and I might have read a bit more into your post than was there. Just had to comment on my money tree.
> 
> Oh and welcome to the site, this is a good place...



No problem. We're good. Thanks for welcoming me to the site.



Dozer Man said:


> *Logrite firewoodinator!!!*
> The LogRite machine is a badxxx setup. I've seen video's of it before (although I don't remember hearing "firewoodinator" before). I read somewhere on AS that it sells for around $10k. Not sure about the price but it is one heck of a setup for serious production.



Thanks for the info. It is a nice machine but if it is $10k then that is way out of range of my meager budget.


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## Dalmatian90

If it's the post I'm thinking about, I think you linked to the video through the company's website which is a no-no unless they're an advertiser.

But posting the YouTube videos themselves is OK as I understand it:

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/4Fx1k1iGH9w?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

$5800 for the SS mounted to the trailer only, which gives you portability + a really nice work table.

$9800 to get the frame, capstan, and log lift. 

Like all wood processors, I think you really need to be using them commercially (at least part-time), or "threshing ring" style where it's commonly owned by several different families, to make sense -- I'd hate to think how much wood someone is burning if they alone can justify the expenditure just for themselves


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## Naked Arborist

*in the real world*

I think D&B Mack pretty much nailed it in his last post to this thread. 

Now who wants to sell me there Speedco they are ever so pissed off that they bought one. This sucks they are not on the market now. After all the R&D done hear these things should be bulletproof with just a few mods. Damn shame they did not just give out a few for some gear-head to debug. "I'm a piney and trust me, if it can be broke, we can brake it". I think they would have saved themselves a lot of time and aggravation in the process. Biggest losers now are all the rest of us just waiting to get our hands on one. The company will survive, no dought, now they just need to get them up to "Speed" lol, SOON, to save face and rebuild there rep with this machine.

I'd bet someone in field research got their ass grilled good for this. That's just a shame because the blame lies with whom ever signed this manufacturing contract of the "cheaper" rack. Faulty parts are always the "Achilles heel" of any good design.


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## COUNTRY6543

I truly believe that this is not a rack problem and a few minor adjustments will make these splitters just as reliable as any other machine on the market. There is just nothing to them, they are so simple. If this thing had mother board and wires running all over the place I would have never even attempted this but it's just a few peices of steel. There is not that much to go wrong with it. We are not dealing with a space shuttle here. I beleive that with the rear cam stop that I have solved my bent rod problem and if it keeps jumping out of gear then I might try to move the foreward cam stop a little. These are very minor tweaks by the factory that has probable cost them a boatload.


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## COUNTRY6543

Ok Folks, sent an email to Speedco ref. to what I had found out. Got a reply from a gentleman that said he was forewarding my letter to their engineering department. I hope they respond just to see if I am right. Sense of pride thing I guess.


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## Jules083

I just joined after lurking and reading this thread for about a month and a half now. I bought my speedpro when it first came out, thinking that it would soon be pulled off the market because some idiot cuts their hand off or something. So far I've only split about 2 cords with it, and it has worked well. I had to tinker with it a bit at first, I think it was assembled in a hurry.

My question is with the handle 'popping up' when it hits a knot or something hard. People postiing here are saying that the handle shouldn't pop up, and that it should stall out the flywheels or slip the clutch first. I'm thinking that the handle popping up might be more like an emergency release, and it should pop up before breaking something. Am I right, or is something wrong with mine? Maybe that bent rod guys are talking about? I'll pop the cover and have a look at the engagement rod to double check.

It's not that big of a deal except tht my girlfriend normally runs the splitter while I stack, and it's nailed her hand pretty good a few time. I'm leaving all of the safetys on for sure with her around though. I should build her a big shield out of expanded metal and two more saftey switches, one for each foot. She's accident prone sometimes. 

I was about the teeth getting ripped off the rack, and what could fix the problem. Has anyone thought of a way to put a shear pin on the unit somehow? All of my farm equipment uses them, and if someone with experience in metal strength could figure out what size pin to use it might solve that problem. Changing a shear pin would be an inconvience, but nowhere near as bad as waiting on a new rack to come in.


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## sunfish

Jules, I have a different brand of flywheel splitter, but I can say for sure, it is not supposed to jump out of gear when it hits a knot. I believe the sudden and violent disengagement is what's breaking teeth off the rack. 

Also, a shear pin here is not good. The clutch and belts should allow enough slip to keep from breaking stuff.


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## Jules083

Thanks sunfish. I'm going to pull the cover off tomorrow and have a look inside, see what's going on in there. It's done it since it was new, I assumed it was supposed to do that.


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## Dozer Man

*Sunfish is correct imho*

Imho, if the ram hits something unbreakable, it should just stop. The flywheels should just stop. The engine should keep running because it has a clutch. The operator should then disengage the handle and then the flywheels will recover rpm's immediately and then you resume operation. Anything else is going to result in broken parts eventually. 

If you need something to compare this theory to...Go jump into any size of a _*loaded*_ truck with a _*manual*_ transmission... go through the gears till you reach highway speed in high gear...now, on your way up a hill _*with the cruise control on*_...hit the shift lever with enough force to knock it out of gear...BANG!! Not a good noise and trust me if you do it enough times...something will break. If you've ever missed, or partially missed, a gear in a big truck, downshifting while going up a big hill, you know what I mean. You learn quickly to make sure that you engage all gears thoroughly, _*everytime*_.

Just my $.02


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## COUNTRY6543

Great analogy! That is exactly what is happening. That's why the teeth go, POP!!!


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## KiwiBro

The belts must have some sort of tensioner, so can this be set to be loose enough to slip if the flywheels suddenly can't spin? Otherwise that shock load has to flow back to the clutch and unless that has a shear pin/keyway that breaks, then back to the motor which can't be good for the motor. Do the belts slip? Do the clutches have a shear pin or keyway?


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## philwillmt

KiwiBro said:


> The belts must have some sort of tensioner, so can this be set to be loose enough to slip if the flywheels suddenly can't spin? Otherwise that shock load has to flow back to the clutch and unless that has a shear pin/keyway that breaks, then back to the motor which can't be good for the motor. Do the belts slip? Do the clutches have a shear pin or keyway?



The belts should not slip. The tensioner is a slotted engine mounting plate, so once the proper tension is set, it is set until the belts wear. There is too much wrap around to allow the belts to slip, and they should not slip anyway. I believe the flywheels should come to a complete stop and the clutch slip when something hard is struck, just like others have suggested. I also sent an email to the SpeeCo service representative, asking about the design of the push ram and whether or not it should be disengaging automatically, violently! He replied back that he would forward my question to their engineer, and later told me his engineer would be out until Monday. I'm curious to see what the intended design on this ram is. Again, I think the auto disengagement is a flaw.


----------



## KiwiBro

philwillmt said:


> I believe the flywheels should come to a complete stop and the clutch slip when something hard is struck, just like others have suggested.


The clutch wont slip the moment excessive load is forced back to the drive train, will it? I'm thinking it will only slip when the revs die, which is AFTER the load has gone through the clutch and put what I'd worry is dangerous loads back on the motor. In the context of such sudden shock loading, it's a bit like closing the stable doors after the horses have bolted.
What happens when the crankshaft of a lil' motor doing how many thousands of RPMs is suddenly locked from spinning, is the question that bothers me in all this. Will the motors handle this load OK and either choke up and revs die or stall, without breaking anything? If they can handle that then great, the revs will die and the clutch will slip. If they can't handle that, then there has to be some sort of sacrificial pathway for the shock load to take that wont cause damage, surely?


----------



## Dozer Man

KiwiBro said:


> The clutch wont slip the moment excessive load is forced back to the drive train, will it? I'm thinking it will only slip when the revs die, which is AFTER the load has gone through the clutch and put what I'd worry is dangerous loads back on the motor. In the context of such sudden shock loading, it's a bit like closing the stable doors after the horses have bolted.
> What happens when the crankshaft of a lil' motor doing how many thousands of RPMs is suddenly locked from spinning, is the question that bothers me in all this. Will the motors handle this load OK and either choke up and revs die or stall, without breaking anything? If they can handle that then great, the revs will die and the clutch will slip. If they can't handle that, then there has to be some sort of sacrificial pathway for the shock load to take that wont cause damage, surely?



That's what the centrifigul clutch is there for. It acts as a buffer between the flywheels and the engine. When the machine stalls the ram, the flywheels stop and the motor pulls down (or loads up actually) and the clutch slips. Unless the operator is not paying attention, the "stall" only lasts for a brief moment, or as long as it takes for you to disengage the handle. I've watched enough videos of SS, DR, and the speedpro (prior to my purchase and after) to see that this is how all kinetic splitters operate, or at least the ones I've seen anyways. So the clutch is in essence the sacrificial pathway. Just my opinion for what it's worth.


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## philwillmt

KiwiBro said:


> The clutch wont slip the moment excessive load is forced back to the drive train, will it? I'm thinking it will only slip when the revs die, which is AFTER the load has gone through the clutch and put what I'd worry is dangerous loads back on the motor. In the context of such sudden shock loading, it's a bit like closing the stable doors after the horses have bolted.
> What happens when the crankshaft of a lil' motor doing how many thousands of RPMs is suddenly locked from spinning, is the question that bothers me in all this. Will the motors handle this load OK and either choke up and revs die or stall, without breaking anything? If they can handle that then great, the revs will die and the clutch will slip. If they can't handle that, then there has to be some sort of sacrificial pathway for the shock load to take that wont cause damage, surely?



Keep in mind this is a centrifugal clutch. You are correct...the clutch won't slip instantly when the ram & flywheels suddenly come to a stop, but it should happen shortly thereafter. The engine should load up and slow down a bit until the slower speed lessens the centrifugal force on the clutch pads, then the power of the engine will overcome the spring tension on the clutch pads, thus causing the clutch to slip, just like it does when you start the unit up until the engine gets up to speed. The clutch should prevent any excessive backloads on the engine that would be in any way harmful to the mechanics of the engine. Your concept of "closing the stable doors after the horses have bolted" is a good analogy, and is exactly how these splitters are designed to work. The rack gear & ram go from a dead stop to the speed of the pinion gear in nanoseconds. Then, when something hard is hit, everything, including the 70 pound flywheels, comes to a screeching halt in nanoseconds! The gears simply have to be designed and heat-treated properly to take this incredible inertia! When you stop and think about it, this is a relatively simple machine. There's not that much to it! I hope SpeeCo gets to the bottom of the problems with this splitter and offers the consumers a quick and simple remedy.


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## sunfish

The belts are also a 'soft' connection between motor and flywheels. My SS does slip the belts a little at the clutch, there isn't much belt wrap there and little contact on that small of pulley.

But with mine there is rarely a time when a bad piece of wood stops the ram.


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## philwillmt

sunfish said:


> The belts are also a 'soft' connection between motor and flywheels. My SS does slip the belts a little at the clutch, there isn't much belt wrap there and little contact on that small of pulley.
> 
> But with mine there is rarely a time when a bad piece of wood stops the ram.



Sunfish,

Out of curiosity, what is the approximate diameter of the clutch on your unit? Thanks!


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## Dozer Man

philwillmt said:


> Sunfish,
> 
> Out of curiosity, what is the approximate diameter of the clutch on your unit? Thanks!



Sunfish,

I'd have to say I'm curious as to the diameter of your drive pulley and your flywheels also. I've read somewhere that the prefered flywheel(pinion shaft) speed is 300rpm for the SS. I'm gonna pull my covers off, when I get a chance, and do some measuring to try and figure out the flywheel rpm on this thing. I'm pretty sure the flywheel speed needs reduced, but by how much is the question. 

Hey Country,
When you got your tach set up, what rpm did you end up splitting at? I split at around half throttle and I'm trying to figure out what my rpm is there. Also, what was your rpm at wot and idle? I will need a tach to get exact speed calculations eventually, but I'm just curious for now.

Thanks to all for any info, we'll get to the bottom of this thing...well....eventually......I hope!!
Still hoping SpeeCo will get there first though!!


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## sunfish

Phil, Dozer, 

The outside diameter of the clutch pulley is 1-3/4"

The diameter of the flywheels is 18-1/4"


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## COUNTRY6543

Dozer, Never had a tach but I do remember someone else saying that they had an hour gauge put on theres or something like that. I have ran my everywhere from just fast enough for the clutch to engage clear to full tilt and still had it jumping out of gear. We see how well that worked out. haha:msp_thumbdn:


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## BSD

Dozer Man said:


> Hey Country,
> When you got your tach set up, what rpm did you end up splitting at? I split at around half throttle and I'm trying to figure out what my rpm is there. Also, what was your rpm at wot and idle? I will need a tach to get exact speed calculations eventually, but I'm just curious for now.



I have a tinytach on my splitter I run it @ 2750-2800rpm for splitting. Occassionally I will bump the speed to 3100-3200 for bigger, nastier pieces. My motor WILL over rev, it is NOT limited to 3600rpm, so if anyone is running it at "full" throttle" they're running around 3900rpm which will definitely put things in overdrive.


----------



## Dozer Man

*Tnank you*



BSD said:


> I have a tinytach on my splitter I run it @ 2750-2800rpm for splitting. Occassionally I will bump the speed to 3100-3200 for bigger, nastier pieces. My motor WILL over rev, it is NOT limited to 3600rpm, so if anyone is running it at "full" throttle" they're running around 3900rpm which will definitely put things in overdrive.



Thanks BSD,
3900rpm...wow I thought these engines were winding a little fast. Thanks for confirming that for us. Glad I've argued about the "not needing full throttle" issue. Once I get some pulley measurements I should be able to get a good estimate on flywheel/pinion rpms. I won't have time today but I will paste a link given to me by Cmccul8146 that will let you calculate flywheel/pinion rpm. All you need is diameters of the drive pulley and drive(driven) flywheel, and engine rpm to calculate flywheel rpm. A person at speeco mentioned 700rpm pinion shaft rpm. If that is the case, then imho that is too fast. I know that without figuring in pinion pitch diameter you can't figure the actual ram speed for comparison, but 700rpm compared to SS being 300rpm sounds like way too big of a difference for me. SS has been doing this for over 3 decades, they must be doing something right. I'm still thinking a smaller diameter clutch pulley will help tremendously. 
I'm just thinking out loud fwiw.

Just my $.02 for the day!!

http://www.culvermotor.com/Engineeri...alculator.html


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## philwillmt

sunfish said:


> Phil, Dozer,
> 
> The outside diameter of the clutch pulley is 1-3/4"
> 
> The diameter of the flywheels is 18-1/4"



I will have to measure mine, but I know that the clutch on the SpeeCo is larger than 1 3/4". Unless someone else beats me to it, I will post the measurements of the SpeeCo the first chance I get. At this point, I still think a smaller clutch would certainly be a step in the right direction. One would think that if there was anything SpeeCo got right when their engineers were in the designing stages of this splitter, it would have been speed and kinetic energy. After all, those are the ONLY two forces that make this thing work!


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## philwillmt

Dozer Man said:


> Thanks BSD,
> 3900rpm...wow I thought these engines were winding a little fast. Thanks for confirming that for us. Glad I've argued about the "not needing full throttle" issue. Once I get some pulley measurements I should be able to get a good estimate on flywheel/pinion rpms. I won't have time today but I will paste a link given to me by Cmccul8146 that will let you calculate flywheel/pinion rpm. All you need is diameters of the drive pulley and drive(driven) flywheel, and engine rpm to calculate flywheel rpm. A person at speeco mentioned 700rpm pinion shaft rpm. If that is the case, then imho that is too fast. I know that without figuring in pinion pitch diameter you can't figure the actual ram speed for comparison, but 700rpm compared to SS being 300rpm sounds like way too big of a difference for me. SS has been doing this for over 3 decades, they must be doing something right. I'm still thinking a smaller diameter clutch pulley will help tremendously.
> I'm just thinking out loud fwiw.
> 
> Just my $.02 for the day!!
> 
> http://www.culvermotor.com/Engineeri...alculator.html



Dozer Man,

The speed on the SpeedPro flywheels that seems to be stuck in my head is 300 to 400 rpm's. Not sure where that came from, or even if it is correct, but I will be able to do the math once I measure the clutch and flywheel diameters. Sunfish says his flywheels are 18.25", and his clutch is 1.75", so that's a 10.42 ratio. At 2600 rpm engine speed, his flywheels would be turning at 249.5 rpm's. I bet that is slower than what the SpeedPro will work out to be, but we'll see.


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## Dozer Man

philwillmt said:


> Dozer Man,
> 
> The speed on the SpeedPro flywheels that seems to be stuck in my head is 300 to 400 rpm's. Not sure where that came from, or even if it is correct, but I will be able to do the math once I measure the clutch and flywheel diameters. Sunfish says his flywheels are 18.25", and his clutch is 1.75", so that's a 10.42 ratio. At 2600 rpm engine speed, his flywheels would be turning at 249.5 rpm's. I bet that is slower than what the SpeedPro will work out to be, but we'll see.



Philwillmt,
I believe you are correct. If you figure the SS pinion rpm with 3100rpm engine speed, it comes out at 297.26 rpm. So I'm just guessing the SS engine is set to run somewhere between 3100 and 3200 rpm at full speed. I had a honeydo day today, so I didn't get to the shop, but I intend to get there tomorrow and pull a tape on things. When the guy at SpeeCo told me he thought he heard 700rpm flywheel speed, I about choked. He said not to hold him to it though(and he was not an engineer). That's why I'm researching the issue. If I remember right, Cmccul8146 said he's running just under 200rpm flywheel speed. But he is also running 100lbs flywheels too. But like he told me, you still have to figure in the pinion pitch diameter to figure the ram speed. If measuring the pinion pitch diameter is just measuring the pinion shaft diameter, that will be easy. If it takes more than that, I've got some research to do.


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## philwillmt

*Mode Change clutch*

Been researching clutches a bit, and came across one called a Mode Change clutch. Probably pricey, but it has adjustable compression springs for a predetermined engagement rpm. And, it advertises 250% more brake lining area than a conventional clutch. It is also "bi-directional without chatter." SWEET!!!


----------



## philwillmt

Dozer Man said:


> Philwillmt,
> I believe you are correct. If you figure the SS pinion rpm with 3100rpm engine speed, it comes out at 297.26 rpm. So I'm just guessing the SS engine is set to run somewhere between 3100 and 3200 rpm at full speed. I had a honeydo day today, so I didn't get to the shop, but I intend to get there tomorrow and pull a tape on things. When the guy at SpeeCo told me he thought he heard 700rpm flywheel speed, I about choked. He said not to hold him to it though(and he was not an engineer). That's why I'm researching the issue. If I remember right, Cmccul8146 said he's running just under 200rpm flywheel speed. But he is also running 100lbs flywheels too. But like he told me, you still have to figure in the pinion pitch diameter to figure the ram speed. If measuring the pinion pitch diameter is just measuring the pinion shaft diameter, that will be easy. If it takes more than that, I've got some research to do.



Dozer Man,

The SpeedPro has a recessed pinion gear which is cut into the pinion shaft (i.e. the outside diameter of the pinion gear at the top of the teeth is the same as the diameter of the shaft). So, simply measure the pinion shaft diameter and deduct the height of the teeth. That will give you the diameter of the gear midway of the teeth. Then, once you figure the rpm's, you will have to figure the circumference of the gear and use that to figure out the ram speed (i.e. inches per second, or whatever unit of measure you want). You probably already knew all of that! I'm just thinking out loud I guess. Let us know what you come up with...I'm curious!


----------



## Dozer Man

philwillmt said:


> Been researching clutches a bit, and came across one called a Mode Change clutch. Probably pricey, but it has adjustable compression springs for a predetermined engagement rpm. And, it advertises 250% more brake lining area than a conventional clutch. It is also "bi-directional without chatter." SWEET!!!



I've been looking at clutch pulleys too. Can't find anything less than a 3" diameter pulley yet. Still looking though. And the only 3" I could find was a single pulley. I'd have no problem with a single belt system...slippage just creates more "cushion" if stalled. One of the first things I did was align and tighten the belts on this thing. Thinking about loosening them up a little now. It can't hurt, these things rarely stall and if they do it's only for a half second. At stall, if the belts slip a little (half second maybe), it won't hurt anything and might even help the clutchlife.

Thinkin out loud again...


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## Dozer Man

*I was close!!!*



philwillmt said:


> Dozer Man,
> 
> The SpeedPro has a recessed pinion gear which is cut into the pinion shaft (i.e. the outside diameter of the pinion gear at the top of the teeth is the same as the diameter of the shaft). So, simply measure the pinion shaft diameter and deduct the height of the teeth. That will give you the diameter of the gear midway of the teeth. Then, once you figure the rpm's, you will have to figure the circumference of the gear and use that to figure out the ram speed (i.e. inches per second, or whatever unit of measure you want). You probably already knew all of that! I'm just thinking out loud I guess. Let us know what you come up with...I'm curious!



I couldn't decide if the diameter at the top of the pinion gear or the bottom of the gear was the one needed. That makes sense to use the diameter at the bottom of the gear. Thanks, it's late and my mind is slowing...lol
pi(3.142) X diameter = circumference X rpm = inches per minute / 12" per foot = feet per min. X 60 (min./hr) = feet per hour / 5280ft.per mile = mph ............I think lmao

wow...that kinda hurt a little lol

edit: I think it would be better to use ft./sec. instead of mph...afterthought.
edit: These are my thoughts for figuring the "ram speed".


----------



## Cmccul8146

philwillmt 

You're right, the pitch diameter of the pinion gear is outside diameter minus approximately the full height of 1 tooth. . A 2 inch diameter shaft with teeth cut 3/8 deep would give you a 1.625 pinion pitch diameter . Multiply pinion pitch diameter by pi (3.1416) to determine ram travel for 1 revolution of flywheel. The spur gear I used on my homebuilt splitter has an outside diameter of 2.833, & a pitch diameter of 2.500 inches. That difference in pinion pitch diameter compared to SS, DR, SpeedPro, et al, is why I run mine at much lower rpm. 2.5x 3.1416=7.854 inches of travel per revolution of flywheels. Doesn't take long for ram to go 25 inches at 160 rpm at that rate.

Sunfish said that the SS clutch pulley is 1 3/4 diameter, but it's actually smaller. Remember that the belts are running down in that V groove , so it's more likely to be closer to 1 1/2or even less. No offense to you sunfish, just pointing out that the V groove pulley diameters are misleading, like gear diameters vs. gear pitch diameters. SS advertises their flywheels run approximately 300 rpm. 1 1/2 clutch pulley (belt depth) x 18 1/4 flywheel x 3600 rpm = 295+ flywheel rpm. Can't estimate much closer than that. Paul has been building the SS for a long time, & knows his machines, and will openly discuss their operation. Classy Guy!

Dozer Man, here's the link to the pulley &rpm calculator I use. Pulley and RPM Calculator | Engineering Information - Culver Armature and Motor
Hope this will help you SpeedPro guys figure out how fast your flywheels are running. The norm for these small engines is 3600 rpm at full throttle. Just plug in engine speed, your pulley & flywheel diameters & see how fast yours are turning. 

Sorry I haven't been posting here for the past several days, but my computer died & is beyond repair. Trying to get an old one back in service now, but not having any luck getting micro soft Service Pack 3 onto it . Can't connect to the internet (wireless) without SP3, and can't get SP3 without being connected. What's a dummy like me to do? Any of you guys computer gurus? Right now I'm on a friend's computer, but hope to have something of my own running again soon. Will keep checking in on this & other threads as I can. Good luck guys. Claude


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## Dozer Man

*Getting to the bottom of things soon...I think!*



Cmccul8146 said:


> Sorry I haven't been posting here for the past several days, but my computer died & is beyond repair. Trying to get an old one back in service now, but not having any luck getting micro soft Service Pack 3 onto it . Can't connect to the internet (wireless) without SP3, and can't get SP3 without being connected. What's a dummy like me to do? Any of you guys computer gurus? Right now I'm on a friend's computer, but hope to have something of my own running again soon. Will keep checking in on this & other threads as I can. Good luck guys. Claude



Thanks Claude,
Sorry to hear about your computer woes. I know from experience they can be frustrating. Wish I could help but I'm at a loss with your issue. I always heard that a computer is only as smart as the person running it...if that's the case, my computer is very ignorant!!

Thanks for the info. Your help is greatly appreciated. It's good to have someone on this thread that's built a kinetic splitter from scratch. I'm heading to the shop this morning just to get some measurements. Hopefully nobody corners me before I can get them, the "yackers" show up early on Saturday, lol. Everytime I try to work on or with my speedpro, it seems that something always happens (or breaks) to sidetrack me.


----------



## sunfish

Cmccul8146 said:


> philwillmt
> 
> Sunfish said that the SS clutch pulley is 1 3/4 diameter, but it's actually smaller. Remember that the belts are running down in that V groove , so it's more likely to be closer to 1 1/2or even less. No offense to you sunfish, just pointing out that the V groove pulley diameters are misleading, like gear diameters vs. gear pitch diameters. SS advertises their flywheels run approximately 300 rpm. 1 1/2 clutch pulley (belt depth) x 18 1/4 flywheel x 3600 rpm = 295+ flywheel rpm. Can't estimate much closer than that. Paul has been building the SS for a long time, & knows his machines, and will openly discuss their operation. Classy Guy!
> Claude



No offense taken. I assumed folks would know that RPM would be figured based on where the bottom/inside of a V belt ran in the V pulley. That would put my 1-3/4" clutch/drive pulley at close to 1". Belts being down into the pulley 3/8", so you have to subtract 3/8" twice from the OD of the V pulley. Hope that makes sense.


----------



## Naked Arborist

*speed vs clutch engagement*

Just remember guys that the clutch engagement speed is determined buy the engines operating RPM not the speed at which the flywheels are turning. So, if you want to lessen the stress when a flywheel is stopped a smaller clutch may or may not help slippage based on it's clamping force at a given RPM. I'll bet it wont last as long. It may overheat faster being there is less friction surface and the motor will be able to drive through the clutch much easier. Second thing is there will be a smaller diameter on the friction surface so that will also make it easier for the engine to drive on. IMO a larger diameter clutch is easier to slip because it has less clamping force per square inch at lower speeds on the contact surface area (with larger springs installed on it). I may be wrong about that.

I guess the bottom line on clamping force is the amount of fiction that the clutch creates based on it's material and the clutch weights vs spring tension. It would take a good engineer to figure out what would be best in the low RPM high load situation here. An "engineer I am not" lol. 

Has anyone even taken into account the width of the clutch shoes? Seems like it will be a factor also.


----------



## Dozer Man

Naked Arborist said:


> Just remember guys that the clutch engagement speed is determined buy the engines operating RPM not the speed at which the flywheels are turning. So, if you want to lessen the stress when a flywheel is stopped a smaller clutch may or may not help slippage based on it's clamping force at a given RPM. I'll bet it wont last as long. It may overheat faster being there is less friction surface and the motor will be able to drive through the clutch much easier. Second thing is there will be a smaller diameter on the friction surface so that will also make it easier for the engine to drive on. IMO a larger diameter clutch is easier to slip because it has less clamping force per square inch at lower speeds on the contact surface area (with larger springs installed on it). I may be wrong about that.
> 
> I guess the bottom line on clamping force is the amount of fiction that the clutch creates based on it's material and the clutch weights vs spring tension. It would take a good engineer to figure out what would be best in the low RPM high load situation here. An "engineer I am not" lol.
> 
> Has anyone even taken into account the width of the clutch shoes? Seems like it will be a factor also.



Actually I was hoping to just change the pulley size without changing the actual clutch size itself. Haven't really looked very hard for belt pulley clutches yet, but what I have found don't have a small enough pulley on them for what I will need. I was hoping as long as the hp rating was the same that I would be safe. But you are correct, I will have to take into account the actual clutch diameter itself too, not just the pulley size, to keep things into spec. As you said, an engineer I am not !!! Learning as I go.


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## Dozer Man

*Flywheel and Pulley Measurements*

Ok, here goes what I've found...and just to be clear, these measurements were taken with a tape measure, not calipers or dials. So they are close but by no means excact.

Flywheel dia.; 18 5/8" o.d. with groove depth of 5/8" (belts riding in bottom of groove)
Pulley dia.; 3 5/8" o.d. with the belts riding only approx 1/4" deep (actual groove depth 7/16")
Pinion shaft dia.; 2" o.d. with what _felt_ like 1/4" gear depth (just felt it with finger)

So that would make my best guess at...
Flywheel dia. @ 17.375" (subtracting 1 1/4" for groove depth)
Pulley dia. @ 3.125" (figuring bottom of belt ride depth as the actual pulley dia.)

Engine RPM @ 3600 = flywheel @ 647.48 rpm
Engine RPM @ 2600 = flywheel @ 467.63 rpm

If my figures are close, that's fast. Correct me if I've missed something...PLEASE !!

I'm throwing this out there for input from others. And I also know that pinion shaft size will determine actual ram speed, which is what really matters. I can figure the speedpro, but pinion shaft size is the only SS figure that I don't have for comparison.


----------



## Granite Stater

Dozer Man said:


> One of the first things I did was align and tighten the belts on this thing. Thinking about loosening them up a little now.



I would definitely lean toward less tension in the belts than more. 

Went to see Paul at his SS shop this morning to get some parts for a splitter they made in the mid 90s that I recently grabbed off Craigslist. He said the belts should be loose enough to slip at the pulley if the wheels stall and also recommended a couple drops of oil on the clutch shoes occasionally to allow slippage which takes some strain of the belts until manual disengagement. He was clear that spontaneous disengagement when the pinion is under heavy load will damage things if it happens enough. On the SS it drives the cam stop arm down hard onto the rack, enough to bend it up. This reduces the overcenter cam travel resulting in what I call Engagement Dysfunction, thats right Splitter ED. Not sure how the SpeedPro regulates cam travel but thought an understanding of how the SS operates might help you guys solve some of your issues. I was about to go over the fence and get the SpeedPro when the sweet deal came up on CL.

Also FYI, after some 15 years of homeowner use on the SS, it only needed a few bucks in repairs. The rack lift bearing was shot and had a flat spot, it probably takes the most abuse of all the cam-follower bearings used in these machines, the others were like new. Keep an eye on that to make sure it stays square to line of travel. Most of the problems were with the clutch so some proactive maintenance is recommended here. The set screw came loose allowing sloppy fit on the crank. The key was shot and I will have to attempt to repair some damage done to the crank keyway and hope I can get enough pressure on that set screw to hold the clutch tight. The pulley bushing was also toast. Paul recommends keeping that oiled and to not leave the splitter at idle too long. Had to flip the wear plate also. The rack showed no sign of wear, the pinion does have some light gouging so I'll probably flip that also when I feel energetic.

And if you guys are really determined to calculate ram speed, why not just measure the amount of travel in inches correspondiing to one revolution of the pinion, and multiply that by RPMs, and divide by 60 for inches per second.


----------



## sunfish

Dozer, without doin the math, your #s look right. And show that the machine is runnin way too fast. Find a drive/clutch pulley closer to what SS uses and you should be in good shape.

Granite Stater, that's good info right there man!


----------



## KiwiBro

Granite Stater said:


> He said the belts should be loose enough to slip at the pulley if the wheels stall and also recommended a couple drops of oil on the clutch shoes occasionally to allow slippage which takes some strain of the belts until manual disengagement.


 Do you have to take the clutch off every time you want to do that or maybe there are a few small holes in the drum for that or?


----------



## Dozer Man

Granite Stater said:


> I would definitely lean toward less tension in the belts than more.
> 
> Went to see Paul at his SS shop this morning to get some parts for a splitter they made in the mid 90s that I recently grabbed off Craigslist. He said the belts should be loose enough to slip at the pulley if the wheels stall and also recommended a couple drops of oil on the clutch shoes occasionally to allow slippage which takes some strain of the belts until manual disengagement. He was clear that spontaneous disengagement when the pinion is under heavy load will damage things if it happens enough. On the SS it drives the cam stop arm down hard onto the rack, enough to bend it up. This reduces the overcenter cam travel resulting in what I call Engagement Dysfunction, thats right Splitter ED. Not sure how the SpeedPro regulates cam travel but thought an understanding of how the SS operates might help you guys solve some of your issues. I was about to go over the fence and get the SpeedPro when the sweet deal came up on CL.
> 
> And if you guys are really determined to calculate ram speed, why not just measure the amount of travel in inches correspondiing to one revolution of the pinion, and multiply that by RPMs, and divide by 60 for inches per second.



Thanks for that info. That confirmed alot of things. And as for the ram speed, that would be too easy. We gotta figure it out on paper first, just like the engineers do!! Just kidding. That's a good idea, especially once we have a half-way accurate flywheel rpm. 

Thanks again!!!


----------



## Granite Stater

KiwiBro said:


> Do you have to take the clutch off every time you want to do that or maybe there are a few small holes in the drum for that or?



Paul recommends removing the pulley to check under the hood, lube the shoes, and give that bushing an oil bath every 100 hours. Between that PM interval you might be able to spritz the clutch drum with a little WD-40 from time to time.


----------



## KiwiBro

Cmccul8146 said:


> Sorry I haven't been posting here for the past several days, but my computer died & is beyond repair. Trying to get an old one back in service now, but not having any luck getting micro soft Service Pack 3 onto it . Can't connect to the internet (wireless) without SP3, and can't get SP3 without being connected. What's a dummy like me to do? Any of you guys computer gurus? Right now I'm on a friend's computer, but hope to have something of my own running again soon. Will keep checking in on this & other threads as I can. Good luck guys. Claude



If you are talking SP3 then I'm assuming (the mother of all screw-ups) is Windows XP. You can download the SP3 using another computer ( http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=183302 ), burn to a disk and run it from that, or just order a CD from Micro$oft (http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=184017).


----------



## philwillmt

Dozer Man said:


> Ok, here goes what I've found...and just to be clear, these measurements were taken with a tape measure, not calipers or dials. So they are close but by no means excact.
> 
> Flywheel dia.; 18 5/8" o.d. with groove depth of 5/8" (belts riding in bottom of groove)
> Pulley dia.; 3 5/8" o.d. with the belts riding only approx 1/4" deep (actual groove depth 7/16")
> Pinion shaft dia.; 2" o.d. with what _felt_ like 1/4" gear depth (just felt it with finger)
> 
> So that would make my best guess at...
> Flywheel dia. @ 17.375" (subtracting 1 1/4" for groove depth)
> Pulley dia. @ 3.125" (figuring bottom of belt ride depth as the actual pulley dia.)
> 
> Engine RPM @ 3600 = flywheel @ 647.48 rpm
> Engine RPM @ 2600 = flywheel @ 467.63 rpm
> 
> If my figures are close, that's fast. Correct me if I've missed something...PLEASE !!
> 
> I'm throwing this out there for input from others. And I also know that pinion shaft size will determine actual ram speed, which is what really matters. I can figure the speedpro, but pinion shaft size is the only SS figure that I don't have for comparison.



Sounds like we better keep the RPM's to 2K or slower until we come up with a smaller clutch! Good info Dozer Man...thanks!


----------



## philwillmt

Naked Arborist said:


> Just remember guys that the clutch engagement speed is determined buy the engines operating RPM not the speed at which the flywheels are turning. So, if you want to lessen the stress when a flywheel is stopped a smaller clutch may or may not help slippage based on it's clamping force at a given RPM. I'll bet it wont last as long. It may overheat faster being there is less friction surface and the motor will be able to drive through the clutch much easier. Second thing is there will be a smaller diameter on the friction surface so that will also make it easier for the engine to drive on. IMO a larger diameter clutch is easier to slip because it has less clamping force per square inch at lower speeds on the contact surface area (with larger springs installed on it). I may be wrong about that.
> 
> I guess the bottom line on clamping force is the amount of fiction that the clutch creates based on it's material and the clutch weights vs spring tension. It would take a good engineer to figure out what would be best in the low RPM high load situation here. An "engineer I am not" lol.
> 
> Has anyone even taken into account the width of the clutch shoes? Seems like it will be a factor also.



A larger clutch equals an increase in the centrifugal force applied to the brake lining, so a smaller clutch should be easier to slip. Also, the larger the clutch, the more brake lining and drum surface, thus harder to slip. The spring pressure on the clutch brakes is the determining factor as to how many RPM's it has to see before engaging, and they come in a wide variety of ranges.


----------



## Dozer Man

*Smaller diameter pulley*

:censored: Having more trouble than I thought finding a clutch with a smaller diameter pulley....So far all I can find is 3" and bigger.


----------



## BSD

philwillmt said:


> Sounds like we better keep the RPM's to 2K or slower until we come up with a smaller clutch! Good info Dozer Man...thanks!



i'll have to check but I don't think my clutch engages until 2300 on mine.


----------



## philwillmt

BSD said:


> i'll have to check but I don't think my clutch engages until 2300 on mine.



You should be able to run the engine speed higher than desired long enough to apply enough centrifugal force to the clutch to get the flywheels up to speed, then reduce the engine speed to the desired setting. It takes way less clutch engagement pressure to maintain flywheel speed than it does to bring them up to speed.


----------



## TFPace

*Centrifical clutch*

Here is clutch that might be of interest

Hilliard Industrial Clutches, Brakes, and Fluid Filtration

This clutch engages at 1,800rpm. Pulley O.D. = 3.0" ....sorry Dozer


----------



## Denny M

Is it possible to cut off the pulley on your clutch drum and weld on a smaller pulley? Just a thought. I am not positive but I think that is how the one on my Flack Hill Machine was made.


----------



## Jules083

I don't know what the SuperSplit clutch looks like, but could a clutch assembly be ordered for a SS and put on our splitters? It's the correct size, and obviously it works good and hold up to a splitter. Will it fit, or is there some other sort of design with it?

Edit- SS's website doesn't show anything about the clutch, other than saying it has one.


----------



## Dozer Man

*Limited pulley size*

My guess is that most manufacturers, with a need for a centrifugul drive clutch pulley, deal with the limited size range by adjusting the "driven" pulley size. With little option on adjusting the driven pulley in the kinetic splitter business, I'd guess they special order their centrifugul clutches with the size pulley they need for the application. 

DennyM, that's a good idea. There are centrifugul clutch manufacturers that advertise the ability to custom build. Cost would be my concern.

Jules083, hate to say it, but this will probly be the cheapest option, yet probly still not cheap(guessing $100+). I'd guess the engine shaft sizes are the same (kohler vs. subaru). Boy that would be a serious plateful of crow to eat though. I'm not sure if Paul would want to help and I'm definately not sure if I want to ask. On the other hand, if it's just selling parts, who knows. This is a last resort option for me, mainly out of respect for Paul, SS and the products they produce. 

I'll keep looking for options and check prices for a custom built clutch. I will def. talk to SpeeCo, they may have some kind of gear ratio change in mind too. Or at least point me in the direction of an inexpensive alternative. My guess is they have the equipment to make such a modification to one of there own clutches.


----------



## schaaed1

Call DR and find the price of "29462 Clutch, Centrifugal Dual Sheave".:smile2:

I have found this thread very interesting, and certianly sounds like you guys are on the right track. But the question I can't get my head around is, are these clutches the same as a 'mini-bike'clutch (granted the chain vs belt diff)? It would seam to me that these would need to be a special type of clutch. Since you are not slowing the engine down enough (during a jam) to release the centrifugal force on the shoes/pads inside the clutch. I think (maybe I am wrong ... more familiar with sled type clutches) these clutches are going to want to stay 'hooked up' as long as the engine RPM is there. Sure, given enough force, the pads would eventually slip (or put enough strain on the engine to lower the rpm & disingage) ... but slipping clutch pads can't be too good on the clutch life.


----------



## Dozer Man

schaaed1 said:


> Call DR and find the price of "29462 Clutch, Centrifugal Dual Sheave".:smile2:
> 
> I have found this thread very interesting, and certianly sounds like you guys are on the right track. But the question I can't get my head around is, are these clutches the same as a 'mini-bike'clutch (granted the chain vs belt diff)? It would seam to me that these would need to be a special type of clutch. Since you are not slowing the engine down enough (during a jam) to release the centrifugal force on the shoes/pads inside the clutch. I think (maybe I am wrong ... more familiar with sled type clutches) these clutches are going to want to stay 'hooked up' as long as the engine RPM is there. Sure, given enough force, the pads would eventually slip (or put enough strain on the engine to lower the rpm & disingage) ... but slipping clutch pads can't be too good on the clutch life.



I understand and agree with what you are saying. We keep talking about stalling these machines and what we forget to mention enough is that they rarely stall. The last time I split a truckoad, it stalled one time. And actually that was the time it popped out of gear. I'm sure if you talk to the SS and DR guys, they will tell you that unless you are splitting knarly knotted pieces all the time, stalling rarely happens. And thanks for the DR part numbers, I will call them to find out the diameter of there clutch pulleys. Good idea!!


----------



## Granite Stater

Jules083 said:


> I don't know what the SuperSplit clutch looks like, but could a clutch assembly be ordered for a SS and put on our splitters? It's the correct size, and obviously it works good and hold up to a splitter. Will it fit, or is there some other sort of design with it?
> 
> Edit- SS's website doesn't show anything about the clutch, other than saying it has one.



Since mine is apart at the moment - clutch hub ID: .75", key: 3/16", length of shaft for the clutch and keyed pulley bushing: 2.25". Pulley wears 1/2" belts.


----------



## Jules083

Dozer Man said:


> I understand and agree with what you are saying. We keep talking about stalling these machines and what we forget to mention enough is that they rarely stall. The last time I split a truckoad, it stalled one time. And actually that was the time it popped out of gear. I'm sure if you talk to the SS and DR guys, they will tell you that unless you are splitting knarly knotted pieces all the time, stalling rarely happens. And thanks for the DR part numbers, I will call them to find out the diameter of there clutch pulleys. Good idea!!



Mine's the same way, it's never stalled. Just popped out. Maybe if the splitter is slowed down it'll stop doing that, and actually stall the way it's supposed to.

I wish speeco would e-mail someone back or put out info through TSC about why they stopped selling them and what they are going to do to fix it.


----------



## BILLSFIREWOOD

Jules083 said:


> Mine's the same way, it's never stalled. Just popped out. Maybe if the splitter is slowed down it'll stop doing that, and actually stall the way it's supposed to.
> 
> I wish speeco would e-mail someone back or put out info through TSC about why they stopped selling them and what they are going to do to fix it.



Hi jules 083. At your wib, tip in the SKU#FOR THE SPLITTER it was 1022655. Thay say ( sorry we could not find any product matches for your search). I am so glad I got my momy from them, and my DR Raped fire will be hear by friday. Thar is a 3 week and 4 days to get it wear.


----------



## philwillmt

schaaed1 said:


> Call DR and find the price of "29462 Clutch, Centrifugal Dual Sheave".:smile2:
> 
> I have found this thread very interesting, and certianly sounds like you guys are on the right track. But the question I can't get my head around is, are these clutches the same as a 'mini-bike'clutch (granted the chain vs belt diff)? It would seam to me that these would need to be a special type of clutch. Since you are not slowing the engine down enough (during a jam) to release the centrifugal force on the shoes/pads inside the clutch. I think (maybe I am wrong ... more familiar with sled type clutches) these clutches are going to want to stay 'hooked up' as long as the engine RPM is there. Sure, given enough force, the pads would eventually slip (or put enough strain on the engine to lower the rpm & disingage) ... but slipping clutch pads can't be too good on the clutch life.



I researched the DR owner's manual also, hoping to find a part number, and a description, for their clutch. Came up with the same number that you did, and although there is no description of the clutch, they have a very good diagram of it. The clutch housing looks to be about the same size as the SpeeCo one, but the dual sheaves look to be smaller. While scanning over their advertisement page and the specification page in their owner's manual, I noticed that the two did not agree...i.e. "1 log, 1 second" advertisement verses 3 second cycle time in spec sheet. And, flywheels "spinning at over 400 rpm" in advertisement verses maximum 400 rpm in spec sheet. That's just a couple of discrepancies that I picked out right away. Found that interesting! Not trying to get anything going with any of the DR owners who read this post...Lord knows there's way too much of that on this thread!!! Just found their advertisement interesting, to say the least! There's got to be somewhere one can find a smaller sheave diameter clutch readily available, and in stock!


----------



## qweesdraw

Better get one Quick! (if you even want one after reading this)
I called my local tractor place (Murdocs) that sells Speeco.
He made a call to find an ETA in this area.
Speeco told him they will no longer available due to major problems.(he said Speeco wouldn't give him any details)
A different model in about a year (possibly) is what i was told.
I was told Tractor Supply will not be getting anymore also.
I am kind of glad i waited.
(I hope all that have one have good luck with them)
Mark


----------



## Denny M

Schaaed1,
I am away from home right now for work but when I get home this weekend I would be glad to take the clutch off of my machine and have a look at it. I may be wrong but I think it is of the same design as the one on my mini bike I had when I was a kid, but that was a long time ago. This one has a two groove pulley and the mini bike had a sprocket, I really think it was a clutch that the sprocket was removed and a good welder attached a 2 groove pulley onto. I also think there is a shaft extension bolted onto the end of the engine crankshaft to support the longer bushing that is required for the extra length of the 2 groove pulley versus the short sprocket. I could take it apart and take some pictures of the parts and get my daughter to help me post them here if you guys think that may help you. I am a little computer challenged.


----------



## stumpy75

I have a question that I guess needs to be asked...

*What is Speeco/TSC going to do about these problems?* 

It's great that many people are trying to come up with solutions, but it does seem like the manufacturer needs to step up. Speeco has a great reputation, so I hope they will come through...

After my initial post starting this thread, it sure took on a life of it's own. Who would have figured??


----------



## COUNTRY6543

Well guys, I'm still dead in the water. Finally received an email from Shaun today at Speeco. He told me that they had received word late Friday that the replacement parts and an update kit is supposed to be ready around the first of the year. I can then take my machine back to my authorized service center and they will replace the parts. I sent one back that asked what I'm supposed to do until then. I thought about building weld up on the two broken teeth and then grind them to the angle as the rest and make it work to get by. Before I did this I called the service center (who I am also very goods friends with) and asked them about me fixing it and then getting the update. They told me that with all their Speeco items they work on, Speeco wants the failed part back so they can turn it in to their suppliers and get refunded. They told me that if I fixed it then I couldn't get the parts under warranty, So I am just sitting around with my thumbs up my butt. :msp_mad:

It was kinda funny, the email I got. I think it was a mass email because it told me that the rack and pinion jump out of gear and break the teeth and the update kit is supposed to fix this. Hahaha, That was the email I sent them explaining the problem and was told it was being forewarded to the enigineering dept. I am so glad that I am not as smart as their engineers! I applaud you guys for carrying the torch in my absence. Keep up the good work....


----------



## KiwiBro

*The suits must cringe when they realise how many people they have exposed to the*

kinetic splitter option, only for Speeco's incompetence to then drive those same people into the doors of competitors. If the fact they are letting people down and tarnishing their reputation isn't enough, it must be like rubbing salt into their self-inflicted wounds to know competitors are profiting nicely from their mistakes.

*edit* heck, it's nearly 42000 views on this thread! I bet Speeco would have rather each were viewing rapturous testimonials and recommendations rather than users determining the flaws for themselves in the vacuum left by Speeco PR and customer service.

I have to say some of you are showing remarkably more restraint than I would be if something I'd bought had failed and was going to leave me stranded for so long. Good on you good sorts.


----------



## TFPace

qweesdraw said:


> Better get one Quick! (if you even want one after reading this)
> I called my local tractor place (Murdocs) that sells Speeco.
> He made a call to find an ETA in this area.
> Speeco told him they will no longer available due to major problems.(he said Speeco wouldn't give him any details)
> A different model in about a year (possibly) is what i was told.
> I was told Tractor Supply will not be getting anymore also.
> I am kind of glad i waited.
> (I hope all that have one have good luck with them)
> Mark



Mark,

I was under the impression that TSC was the only retailer for the SpeedPro for the first year. The other SpeeCo dealers carry the rest of of the hydraulic splitters.

I understand that you are repeating what your guy (Murdocs) told you but I find it very usual that SpeeCo refers to their kinetic machine as having "major problems". 

My contact at SpeeCo tells another story all together.:msp_unsure:


----------



## Como

TFPace said:


> Mark,
> 
> I was under the impression that TSC was the only retailer for the SpeedPro for the first year. The other SpeeCo dealers carry the rest of of the hydraulic splitters.
> 
> I understand that you are repeating what your guy (Murdocs) told you but I find it very usual that SpeeCo refers to their kinetic machine as having "major problems".
> 
> My contact at SpeeCo tells another story all together.:msp_unsure:



Murdoch's Ranch & Home Supply - Welcome Home to Murdoch's

Murdochs are numerous in CO. It was them I was referred to originally before I found out that they were a TSC only deal. I was told by Murdochs that they may be getting them next year. I have no idea if this is true or not.


----------



## Wood Doctor

*Build Your Own Fast Splitter*

Consider these options for hydraulic splitters:

(1) 2-stage pump (13 GPM at most).
(2) 3" cylinder (that's right, not a 4") with a 26" reach.
(3) 6.5 Hp Honda clone engine from Harbor Freight.
(4) Direct drive coupler from engine to pump.
(5) Auto return valve control.

Design the trailer, beam (for horizontal and vertical), tank, wedge, and hose it up yourself. Figure less than $1,200 and you will have all the power and speed that you need. Plus, you built it yourself.


----------



## Dozer Man

*Not a bad build for a hydro!!!*



Wood Doctor said:


> Consider these options for hydraulic splitters:
> 
> (1) 2-stage pump (13 GPM at most).
> (2) 3" cylinder (that's right, not a 4") with a 26" reach.
> (3) 6.5 Hp Honda clone engine from Harbor Freight.
> (4) Direct drive coupler from engine to pump.
> (5) Auto return valve control.
> 
> Design the trailer, beam (for horizontal and vertical), tank, wedge, and hose it up yourself. Figure less than $1,200 and you will have all the power and speed that you need. Plus, you built it yourself.



You've got a good build going on there. The things I would change: 16 gpm pump, 4" cyl., and 9hp or more engine. It would still be a fast hydro. But the biggest problem I would still have is waiting on the ram to go in and out!!!! I just don't think I can go back to splitting with a hydro.


----------



## schaaed1

Denny M said:


> Schaaed1,
> I am away from home right now for work but when I get home this weekend I would be glad to take the clutch off of my machine and have a look at it. I may be wrong but I think it is of the same design as the one on my mini bike I had when I was a kid, but that was a long time ago. This one has a two groove pulley and the mini bike had a sprocket, I really think it was a clutch that the sprocket was removed and a good welder attached a 2 groove pulley onto. I also think there is a shaft extension bolted onto the end of the engine crankshaft to support the longer bushing that is required for the extra length of the 2 groove pulley versus the short sprocket. I could take it apart and take some pictures of the parts and get my daughter to help me post them here if you guys think that may help you. I am a little computer challenged.


Denny - Thanks for that offer. Don't do it just on my count, I do not have any of the kenetic splitters. But I am interested in the thread, as I am thinking about the potential of building one. 

If I would go that route, I would use some scrapped hit & miss engine flywheels, probably purchase replacement parts for the rack and pinion gears (not from Speeco, LOL) and go from there. I may even go clutch to jackshaft (would eliminate the need for the double V clutch) then jackshaft to flywheels with the belts. Or better than a centrifigual clutch ... maybe a viscuous clutch. Like I said ... just kicking around ideas.


----------



## BSD

well, we split a couple cords today and managed to shear the brass wear plate off the bottom of the ram plate. There were four tiny little screws/bolts holding it there. apparently three of them had walked their way out and only one was remaining... one hard strike and the wear plate is now not attached and it sheared the remaining bolt off. I've got to try to drill it out and retap all the holes to fix this unless I can get Speeco to send me a new ram plate. While we had it apart I took the pinion rack out and inspected it (after liberally greasing it this morning). it hasn't shown any more signs of wear since the last time I inspected it a few cords prior.


----------



## indiansprings

Wood Doctor said:


> Consider these options for hydraulic splitters:
> 
> (1) 2-stage pump (13 GPM at most).
> (2) 3" cylinder (that's right, not a 4") with a 26" reach.
> (3) 6.5 Hp Honda clone engine from Harbor Freight.
> (4) Direct drive coupler from engine to pump.
> (5) Auto return valve control.
> 
> Design the trailer, beam (for horizontal and vertical), tank, wedge, and hose it up yourself. Figure less than $1,200 and you will have all the power and speed that you need. Plus, you built it yourself.



Not enough splitter there, 3" will not give the tonnage that you need, been down that road already, 13 gpm really not fast enough, 6.5 hp would be the absolute minimum, I've been down the splitter road more than once in the last few years. If I wanted to build one from scratch, it would have a 4.5" dia cylinder, 2" ram, 24" stroke 22 gpm pump 16 hp engine and where the coupler joined the engine I would have a device like a harmonic balancer weighing at least 20 lbs, balanced for extra mass to help keep the engine momentum up, I've seen it described as a hydraulic multiplier on Aussie sites and at least a 20 gallon hydro tank. I've tried different size cylinders on splitters in the past, you really seem to lose a lot of splitting power going from a 4.5 to a 3". If your ram size gets down to 1.5" I think you have the serious possibility of bending the ram.


----------



## Dozer Man

*Just pointing out*

Not trying to start and argument, but, aren't some Stihl saws made in germany or switzerland? I'm not knocking them, Stihl is all I run, I was just under the assumption that they were not 100% made in USA. Sorry, I just had to point that out and I could very well be wrong too.


----------



## sunfish

Dozer Man said:


> Not trying to start and argument, but, aren't some Stihl saws made in germany or switzerland? I'm not knocking them, Stihl is all I run, I was just under the assumption that they were not 100% made in USA. Sorry, I just had to point that out and I could very well be wrong too.



Some Stihl models are made in the US, some are made in Germany, some other places. But Stihl is a German company.

Same with Husqvarna, except Sweden instead of Germany.


----------



## Como

They do mention Manufacturing in the US, but I find it difficult to believe it amounts to much.


----------



## sunfish

Como said:


> They do mention Manufacturing in the US, but I find it difficult to believe it amounts to much.



A good half dozen Stihl models are made here in Va. But I'm sure have lots of imported parts. They do provide a good many US jobs and this is good. Stihl also has factory's in other countrys.

Husky also makes 3-4 of their low-end saw models here (and other stuff), with the rest of the saws made in Sweden.


----------



## Dalmatian90

> They do mention Manufacturing in the US, but I find it difficult to believe it amounts to much.



It's significant. 

They employee 1,900 folks at Virginia Beach, VA which is their U.S. corporate HQ, manufacturing facility, and distribution center.

That's about 1/6th of Stihl's global employment and second largest presence outside of Germany.

Just announced they're spending $10M expansion for plastic molding there -- 52 jobs averaging $45,000 pay.






Stihl Inc. to expand Va. Beach site, hire 52 new workers | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com

In 2007, they built a new facility at Virginia Beach to build 1 million chainsaw bars per year, work that hadn't been done in the U.S. before.

Stihl opens new guide bar plant | Inside Business

That's a great example of how it's automation and not outsourcing causing the great contraction in manufacturing jobs -- $25M plant, 33 employees...1 million chainsaw bars/year. My math says that's one bar for every 45 seconds of employee time. Just don't need that many people to push out a huge volume anymore.

And some video from inside the plant:
http://www.fox43tv.com/dpp/hr_show/wvbt-hrs-made-in-hampton-roads-stihl-20110415


----------



## Dozer Man

*Glad I asked !!*

Nice to know about Stihl. I would have bought them anyways but still nice to know. 
Thanks Dalmation, very nice right up.


----------



## nysparkie

*RapidFire No Stalling*



Dozer Man said:


> I understand and agree with what you are saying. We keep talking about stalling these machines and what we forget to mention enough is that they rarely stall. The last time I split a truckoad, it stalled one time. And actually that was the time it popped out of gear. I'm sure if you talk to the SS and DR guys, they will tell you that unless you are splitting knarly knotted pieces all the time, stalling rarely happens. And thanks for the DR part numbers, I will call them to find out the diameter of there clutch pulleys. Good idea!!



DOZER: You are correct. I have split 30 face cord since I started with the RapidFire. I have hit all types of crap. Never a stall. The engine does
bog down, yet it has never stalled. Even when the ram is jammed(Stuck) in the forward position, the engine still has never stopped/stalled.


----------



## Jules083

Just got back from Tractor Supply with a full refund, I broke some teeth off the ram today. If anyone whats to there is a E-mail from Speeco to Tractor Supply saying that anyone who breaks teeth off should be given a full refund.

Now the Million dollar question: Supersplit or DR rapid fire? DR's are on sale right now, they're about $300 cheaper without shipping.


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## KiwiBro

Jules083 said:


> Just got back from Tractor Supply with a full refund, I broke some teeth off the ram today. If anyone whats to there is a E-mail from Speeco to Tractor Supply saying that anyone who breaks teeth off should be given a full refund.


Go on, admit it, Mr sledgehammer paid your rack a visit and you took your get out of jail free card and passed go and collected your money.

:msp_biggrin:


----------



## KiwiBro

nysparkie said:


> DOZER: You are correct. I have split 30 face cord since I started with the RapidFire. I have hit all types of crap. Never a stall. The engine does
> bog down, yet it has never stalled. Even when the ram is jammed(Stuck) in the forward position, the engine still has never stopped/stalled.


 Have you hit anything that completely and suddenly stopped the forward progress of the rack head/ram, rather than just slowing said progress down? If so, and the engine didn't stall, did the belts slip? If not, perhaps there is something about the DR drive train that needs investigating to learn what they are doing differently from Speeco.


----------



## COUNTRY6543

*stall / not stall*

Ok.. reference this stall / not stall issue. When my Speed Pro hit something hard and stopped the ram, The flywheels would NOT stop instantly. The belts would slip as the flywheel would slow and then the engine would bog down and the engine clutch would kick in. My belts were not real tight at all. They had some slack and just tight enough to engage the wheels. Now I say the the wheels would slow, but this only took about 1/2 to a full second before they stopped completely. This allowed for a cusion between the ram, belts and engine. That is what happened 90% of the time and that is the way I believe this design was supposed to work. The other 10% of the time is when the unit would jump out of gear and cause the horrible bang. I did loosen the belts to try and give more cusion but that didn't work. The engine never ever stalled out completely.


----------



## Dozer Man

*$.02*



Jules083 said:


> Just got back from Tractor Supply with a full refund, I broke some teeth off the ram today. If anyone whats to there is a E-mail from Speeco to Tractor Supply saying that anyone who breaks teeth off should be given a full refund.
> 
> Now the Million dollar question: Supersplit or DR rapid fire? DR's are on sale right now, they're about $300 cheaper without shipping.



If I was to return mine today, I would definately go with SS. Probly the "J" model. Nothing against DR. But in the long run, when the warranty runs out, from what I've read, Paul takes very good care of his machines and customers. Again, nothing against the rapidfire, I hope it runs forever and I've read many people say that DR takes care of there customers too. But we are/have gone down the "not so tried and true" road. I won't do it again. Just my $.02 worth.


----------



## Dozer Man

*Stalling the Ram not engine*



COUNTRY6543 said:


> Ok.. reference this stall / not stall issue. When my Speed Pro hit something hard and stopped the ram, The flywheels would NOT stop instantly. The belts would slip as the flywheel would slow and then the engine would bog down and the engine clutch would kick in. My belts were not real tight at all. They had some slack and just tight enough to engage the wheels. Now I say the the wheels would slow, but this only took about 1/2 to a full second before they stopped completely. This allowed for a cusion between the ram, belts and engine. That is what happened 90% of the time and that is the way I believe this design was supposed to work. The other 10% of the time is when the unit would jump out of gear and cause the horrible bang. I did loosen the belts to try and give more cusion but that didn't work. The engine never ever stalled out completely.



Yes, we are talking about "stalling" the ram and flywheels, not the engine. Mine has never stalled the engine. It bogs down when the ram stalls but that is all. The clutch lets it keep running.


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## Jules083

KiwiBro said:


> Go on, admit it, Mr sledgehammer paid your rack a visit and you took your get out of jail free card and passed go and collected your money.
> 
> :msp_biggrin:



I can't honestly say I didn't think about breaking it on purpose, but I didn't. It actually finished splitting the load with one tooth missing and two teeth cracked, I was suprised. The broken tooth is sitting in front of me right now, I'm going to keep it for something.

I still haven't decided between a rapid fire or Supersplit, but I want one or the other for sure. I got spoiled by the cycle time.


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## indiansprings

I think I would be inclined go with the Super Split. I just don't like the fact that DR lures a lot of customers into their easy financing then after six months the poor turds realize they get hit with 24.99% interest on the unpaid balance, do a little math on what that splitter is going to cost you at 25% interest lol. Would be real easy to wind up with a 6-7k splitter. 
Paul's work is the standard by which others are being judged.

The fact remains though that the inertia type splitter is going to transition the majority of the splitter market from hydraulic to inertia within the next couple of years. Someone will go to China or India and get one of these mfg, that will sell in the 1400-1600.00 range and work well, that day is coming, the reason is elementary, the design is simple, casting the flywheels in either India or China is cheap and easy to get done, the heat treatment of the rack and pinion is the critical part, I'd almost be willing to bet you'll see these in the 1200.00 price range in a couple of years with them using the HF type engine.
Lots of profit in these machines as they are being sold today. I'll bet DR has at least 15% built in for marketing and advertising into each unit.

One of you young capitalist needs to come up with a built it yourself kit form version, minus the engine and market it for 999.97, let the end user supply his own engine.


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## Jules083

indiansprings said:


> I think I would be inclined go with the Super Split. I just don't like the fact that DR lures a lot of customers into their easy financing then after six months the poor turds realize they get hit with 24.99% interest on the unpaid balance, do a little math on what that splitter is going to cost you at 25% interest lol. Would be real easy to wind up with a 6-7k splitter.
> Paul's work is the standard by which others are being judged.
> 
> The fact remains though that the inertia type splitter is going to transition the majority of the splitter market from hydraulic to inertia within the next couple of years. Someone will go to China or India and get one of these mfg, that will sell in the 1400-1600.00 range and work well, that day is coming, the reason is elementary, the design is simple, casting the flywheels in either India or China is cheap and easy to get done, the heat treatment of the rack and pinion is the critical part, I'd almost be willing to bet you'll see these in the 1200.00 price range in a couple of years with them using the HF type engine.
> Lots of profit in these machines as they are being sold today. I'll bet DR has at least 15% built in for marketing and advertising into each unit.
> 
> One of you young capitalist needs to come up with a built it yourself kit form version, minus the engine and market it for 999.97, let the end user supply his own engine.



Just sent the online order form in for a SS, it said they'll contact me soon for payment. I took a chance on one SS copy already, might as well spend the money and do it right this time.


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## KiwiBro

Jules083 said:


> Supersplit or DR rapid fire?


I hate Husqvarna's, Stihl's all the way and a Dolly or two for good measure.
opcorn:


----------



## Wood Doctor

indiansprings said:


> Not enough splitter there, 3" will not give the tonnage that you need, been down that road already, 13 gpm really not fast enough, 6.5 hp would be the absolute minimum, I've been down the splitter road more than once in the last few years. If I wanted to build one from scratch, it would have a 4.5" dia cylinder, 2" ram, 24" stroke 22 gpm pump 16 hp engine and where the coupler joined the engine I would have a device like a harmonic balancer weighing at least 20 lbs, balanced for extra mass to help keep the engine momentum up, I've seen it described as a hydraulic multiplier on Aussie sites and at least a 20 gallon hydro tank. I've tried different size cylinders on splitters in the past, you really seem to lose a lot of splitting power going from a 4.5 to a 3". If your ram size gets down to 1.5" I think you have the serious possibility of bending the ram.


Then you will put everyone to sleep while you try to split with a big cylinder, single-stage pump, lots of horsepower, and give the super fast splitters more ammunition.

I have about a 5-to 6-second cycle time (down + up added together) and can split about everything. That's good enough for me, and my machine has worked for over five years. Best thing is that I can operate the 6.5 Hp engine at half speed and still run plenty fast enough. Please read the numbers:






Note also that the shape of the splitting wedge has a lot to do with what you can split. I suggest that you go down the road again with a new wedge and a 2-stage pump.


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## sunfish

Jules083 said:


> Just sent the online order form in for a SS, it said they'll contact me soon for payment. I took a chance on one SS copy already, might as well spend the money and do it right this time.



Good move! The SS track record is very long and top notch.


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## indiansprings

Wood Doctor said:


> Then you will put everyone to sleep while you try to split with a big cylinder, single-stage pump, lots of horsepower, and give the super fast splitters more ammunition.
> 
> I have about a 5-to 6-second cycle time (down + up added together) and can split about everything. That's good enough for me, and my machine has worked for over five years. Best thing is that I can operate the 6.5 Hp engine at half speed and still run plenty fast enough. Please read the numbers:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Note also that the shape of the splitting wedge has a lot to do with what you can split. I suggest that you go down the road again with a new wedge and a 2-stage pump.



No where did I reference a single stage pump, to make it clearer for you a 22 gpm two stage. You try the little 3" cylinder on hedge, elm, seasoned knarly black jack crotches and you'll find your wasting your time, maybe it works when your just doing enough for yourself, but when your trying to push out a minimum of 8-10 cords a day, I don't have the time to play around. We've tried many different combos over the years, 3' cylinders don't work in the wood in this country unless it is straight grained. 
In reality I need a Super Split, if I were younger, and knew I would continue the business for another couple of years I'd have one ordered tomorrow. Sunfish cuts my kind of wood, I'll take his testimony on the performance of the super split any day. His word on how they perform and benefit him are as good as gold with me. I have to fight the urge to go up and try his out, as I know what the outcome would be, one would be sitting in the woodlot.


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## Wood Doctor

indiansprings said:


> No where did I reference a single stage pump, to make it clearer for you a 22 gpm two stage. You try the little 3" cylinder on hedge, elm, seasoned knarly black jack crotches and you'll find your wasting your time, maybe it works when your just doing enough for yourself, but when your trying to push out a minimum of 8-10 cords a day, I don't have the time to play around. We've tried many different combos over the years, 3' cylinders don't work in the wood in this country unless it is straight grained.
> 
> In reality I need a Super Split, if I were younger, and knew I would continue the business for another couple of years I'd have one ordered tomorrow. Sunfish cuts my kind of wood, I'll take his testimony on the performance of the super split any day. His word on how they perform and benefit him are as good as gold with me. I have to fight the urge to go up and try his out, as I know what the outcome would be, one would be sitting in the woodlot.


Well, I'm afraid that one of my favorite firewood species is elm, and I split it all the time with a 3" cylinder, hydraulic spltter. Just let green American or Red elm sit for a month or so in the round. I wager that my splitter will split anything that a Super Split can split.

Pushing out 8-10 cords a day is senseless when you cannot sell that much, burn that much, nor even give it away. Who's cutting and splitting 8-to-10 cords a day for firewood? Maybe CurlyCherry's brother.

Heck, pay through the nose. Buy a Super Split.


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## Dozer Man

*calm down men*

Don't forget... Opinions are like xxxholes... Everybody has one!!!


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## sunfish

Indian, you are more than welcome to come over and try it out. 
But I'll understand if you don't. :msp_wink:


After using a flywheel splitter for a year and a half now.

A person could not run fast enough to Give me a hydro splitter. Just saying...

And yes, just my opinion...


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## cheeves

indiansprings said:


> No where did I reference a single stage pump, to make it clearer for you a 22 gpm two stage. You try the little 3" cylinder on hedge, elm, seasoned knarly black jack crotches and you'll find your wasting your time, maybe it works when your just doing enough for yourself, but when your trying to push out a minimum of 8-10 cords a day, I don't have the time to play around. We've tried many different combos over the years, 3' cylinders don't work in the wood in this country unless it is straight grained.
> In reality I need a Super Split, if I were younger, and knew I would continue the business for another couple of years I'd have one ordered tomorrow. Sunfish cuts my kind of wood, I'll take his testimony on the performance of the super split any day. His word on how they perform and benefit him are as good as gold with me. I have to fight the urge to go up and try his out, as I know what the outcome would be, one would be sitting in the woodlot.


I used one for 5 years. Absolutely outstanding. And this was one of the originals. I can't imagine anything better. The only ? in my case is $ and lifting large pieces with my back up to the machine to be split. But for a commercial enterprise ideal.


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## Wood Doctor

*Super Spit and Big Logs?*

So, how well would Super Split and you by yourself handle this log in the center, even if you could somehow get it to the platform?






Vertical hydraulic splitters have their place.


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## sunfish

Wood Doctor said:


> Do, how well would Super Split and you by yourself handle this log in the center, even if you could somehow get it to the platform?
> 
> 
> Vertical hydraulic splitters have their place.



How did you get it on your truck? 

Actually I cut and load the truck in woods, then dump the rounds in the wood lot. I noodle or split the big ones so I can lift them into the truck. So lifting onto the splitter is no problem. Also the SS table is the same height as my tailgate, so I can roll round off the truck and onto the SS, but rarely do that.

But you are right, hydros do have their place and are a useful tool. It's just that I no longer want one. 


Oh, and the SS would be able to handle that big one fine...


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## Dozer Man

Wood Doctor said:


> Do, how well would Super Split and you by yourself handle this log in the center, even if you could somehow get it to the platform?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vertical hydraulic splitters have their place.



Yes, hydros have their place. For me that place is waiting until I get enough oversized rounds for me to hook up my 30+ yr old hydro to a dozer (for hydraulic power) and quarter rounds. Then the quarters will go in the "ready to split" pile. Then I will split them into fwood with the speedpro kinetic. I've split plenty of fwood with a friends vert/horiz. splitter. Not much will stop it that is for sure. But after using a kinetic splitter, the hydros just seem like slow motion. I don't mean to knock any hydro splitter at all, I've been splitting that way for well over 30 years. But after splitting with the speedpro kinetic splitter, I can't go back. If speeco doesn't fix this thing, I will. As of now, I don't have the option to upgrade to an SS. 

Hey Wood Doctor,
Very nice sideboards on that pickup of yours! Those look really good!! Now I know what to build for my truck. I've always thought of sideboards to be removed when not in use, just for looks(or lack of). Not those, you need to show them baby's off!! Assuming you built them yourself...Nice job!


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## BSD

Wood Doctor said:


> Do, how well would Super Split and you by yourself handle this log in the center, even if you could somehow get it to the platform?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vertical hydraulic splitters have their place.


what kind of log is that? looks like cottonwood? 

I posted this a few months ago but here it is. a 26" hickory that I hoisted up with the backhoe. The speedpro got through in 2 shots. It's not the size of wood thats the problem, its the size of the halves that fall to the ground that you have to pick up again. they're a PITA to process.


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## BSD

oops forgot the picture.


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## Jules083

Wood Doctor said:


> Do, how well would Super Split and you by yourself handle this log in the center, even if you could somehow get it to the platform?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vertical hydraulic splitters have their place.



My speedpro would have split that a few days ago. It's at tractor supply now, but the rack teeth are still here.

I have a SS on order, I'm pretty sure it would split it. I'd probably noodle first though, that thing looks heavier than me.


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## nysparkie

*Ram Stopped completely*



KiwiBro said:


> Have you hit anything that completely and suddenly stopped the forward progress of the rack head/ram, rather than just slowing said progress down? If so, and the engine didn't stall, did the belts slip? If not, perhaps there is something about the DR drive train that needs investigating to learn what they are doing differently from Speeco.




The rack/ram head is stuck in the forward position. The engine rpm's will decrease with the engine sounding like it is under strain. But it doesn't stall. Do the Belt slip? I don't believe so, I haven't had the side covers off while working. There is no squealing of belts. It takes 15 seconds or so
to clear the jam....I hit the on/off switch if it is any longer. I have had to do that twice with a knotty 14 inch Y Ash. Could be just a better clutch on the DR. I know their "Drive Train Pinion Gear" Is quite substantial and hardened twice if one believes the advertising. The Shaft one time and after the notches are cut, they are a 2d time. I would be more than happy, when I get engaged in splitting again, to try and jam the thing up with the covers off to see what is happening at that point. When I do, perhaps I can even catch it on Android Phone and up load it. We will see.


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## Dozer Man

nysparkie said:


> The rack/ram head is stuck in the forward position. The engine rpm's will decrease with the engine sounding like it is under strain. But it doesn't stall. Do the Belt slip? I don't believe so, I haven't had the side covers off while working. There is no squealing of belts. It takes 15 seconds or so
> to clear the jam....I hit the on/off switch if it is any longer. I have had to do that twice with a knotty 14 inch Y Ash. Could be just a better clutch on the DR. I know their "Drive Train Pinion Gear" Is quite substantial and hardened twice if one believes the advertising. The Shaft one time and after the notches are cut, they are a 2d time. I would be more than happy, when I get engaged in splitting again, to try and jam the thing up with the covers off to see what is happening at that point. When I do, perhaps I can even catch it on Android Phone and up load it. We will see.



I'm confused...It takes you 15 seconds to clear a jam??? If the ram stalls on a piece of wood, shouldn't you just hit backwards on your engagement handle to disengage the rack???


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## TFPace

*Rack update*

I had a very nice conversation with the SpeeCo representative, Ron Golon. He said that the improved rack was complete and they were waiting on the arrival of this item. He also added that their engineers have made other retro-fit improvements that SpeedPro owners will be pleased with also.

I questioned him on whether there was any truth to the comment made on this thread about the SpeedPro kinetic splitter being abandoned... his reply was "absolutely false". 

Bottom-line is that SpeeCo has not washed their hands of this problem. They are not happy with what has happened to the SpeedPro rack issue anymore than the owners that are having rack issues are unhappy. SpeeCo is working on a solution to remedy this problem.

I wish all companies were as customer driven as Speeco.


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## BSD

TFPace said:


> I had a very nice conversation with the SpeeCo representative, Ron Golon. He said that the improved rack was complete and they were waiting on the arrival of this item. He also added that their engineers have made other retro-fit improvements that SpeedPro owners will be pleased with also.
> 
> I questioned him on whether there was any truth to the comment made on this thread about the SpeedPro kinetic splitter being abandoned... his reply was "absolutely false".
> 
> Bottom-line is that SpeeCo has not washed their hands of this problem. They are not happy with what has happened to the SpeedPro rack issue anymore than the owners that are having rack issues are unhappy. SpeeCo is working on a solution to remedy this problem.
> 
> I wish all companies were as customer driven as Speeco.



Glad to hear that they've made progress on the rack issue. I meant to call them today to talk about my brass wear plate failure but ran out of time.

thanks for the update.


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## Jules083

TFPace said:


> I had a very nice conversation with the SpeeCo representative, Ron Golon. He said that the improved rack was complete and they were waiting on the arrival of this item. He also added that their engineers have made other retro-fit improvements that SpeedPro owners will be pleased with also.
> 
> I questioned him on whether there was any truth to the comment made on this thread about the SpeedPro kinetic splitter being abandoned... his reply was "absolutely false".
> 
> Bottom-line is that SpeeCo has not washed their hands of this problem. They are not happy with what has happened to the SpeedPro rack issue anymore than the owners that are having rack issues are unhappy. SpeeCo is working on a solution to remedy this problem.
> 
> I wish all companies were as customer driven as Speeco.



I wonder why, when I went to TSC with a broken rack, I was given my money back with no option for repair work? A refund was what I was hoping for, but if the rack was complete like you were told I would think they would try to fix my splitter rather than just give me a refund.

I hope this is true for the sake of all of you that plan on keeping your splitter. I am done with mine, I'm not gambling $1800 to try to save $1000.


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## MNGuns

BSD said:


> oops forgot the picture.



While it is an impressive pic, I am most certain you could noodle a round that big to a reasonable size in less time that it took you to roll it, rig it, and hoist it. Just saying...opcorn:


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## COUNTRY6543

Racks ARE complete... They are just on a slow boat from China. I am waiting on a rack and update kit myself. And no I don't wish to hear any comments on "Buy American" , As posted earlier I thought I was but have to deal with it now.


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## BSD

MNGuns said:


> While it is an impressive pic, I am most certain you could noodle a round that big to a reasonable size in less time that it took you to roll it, rig it, and hoist it. Just saying...opcorn:


we normally roll it to our vertical splitter and quarter it down, then final process on the speedpro. less back breaking that way. i don't noodle, more of a steak and potatoes kind of guy.


----------



## Wood Doctor

*I Split it Vertical*



BSD said:


> What kind of log is that? Looks like cottonwood?
> 
> I posted this a few months ago but here it is. a 26" hickory that I hoisted up with the backhoe. The speedpro got through in 2 shots. It's not the size of wood thats the problem, its the size of the halves that fall to the ground that you have to pick up again. they're a PITA to process.


No, this big round was not cottonwood. You hoisted your log to the splitter's beam with a backhoe? I simply set my hydraulic splitter in its vertical position and split this monster by going around the outside a few times and then took it straight down the center. I processed and stacked 50 split logs from this round without a backhoe. My all-time record from one round is 55 split logs of decent size.

Shucks, I couldn't find a backhoe anywhere. Is that is optional equipment for a Speed Pro or a Super Split? Maybe it should be.


----------



## BSD

Wood Doctor said:


> No, this big round was not cottonwood. You hoisted your log to the splitter's beam with a backhoe? I simply set my hydraulic splitter in its vertical position and split this monster by going around the outside a few times and then took it straight down the center. I processed and stacked 50 split logs from this round without a backhoe. My all-time record from one round is 55 split logs of decent size.
> 
> Shucks, I couldn't find a backhoe anywhere. Is that is optional equipment for a Speed Pro or a Super Split? Maybe it should be.



you know. i'm really tired of you pissants coming in here hating on the speedpros. you come in here trying to provoke something; and someone who actually owns and uses a speedpro will post something to counter your point. and you go off on a tangent about using a machine to load a log on a machine? like that negates my point? I have a vertical splitter too, whoopity frigging dooo. would you like a cookie now?


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## Dalmatian90

> . You hoisted your log to the splitter's beam with a backhoe? I simply set my hydraulic splitter in its vertical position and split this monster by going around the outside a few times and then took it straight down the center.



Some of us are still curious how you got that log onto your Ranger. And why the same tools wouldn't let you get it up on a horizontal splitter.

(I would've noodled that sucker before even considering anything else nowdays.)


----------



## KiwiBro

BSD said:


> you know. i'm really tired of you pissants coming in here hating on the speedpros. you come in here trying to provoke something; and someone who actually owns and uses a speedpro will post something to counter your point. and you go off on a tangent about using a machine to load a log on a machine? like that negates my point? I have a vertical splitter too, whoopity frigging dooo. would you like a cookie now?


I respectfully disagree. SpeeCo screwed up. There is no getting around that fact and the frustration and inconvenience many 'early adopters' have endured as a result. Please don't automatically right off as a "hater" those who challenge ideas , without at least taking a good look at what there may be to learn from their perspectives. Personally, if I couldn't mill the bigger wood and there was more than just a sprinkling of it, I'd rather 1/4 on a vert hydraulic than noodle if possible. It's horse for courses. I don't see the merit in manhandling monsters back and forward on a kinetic but practically wet myself at the 'production' prospects of a kinetic splitter for the right sized wood.


----------



## KiwiBro

TFPace said:


> I had a very nice conversation with the SpeeCo representative, Ron Golon. He said that the improved rack was complete and they were waiting on the arrival of this item. He also added that their engineers have made other retro-fit improvements that SpeedPro owners will be pleased with also.
> 
> I questioned him on whether there was any truth to the comment made on this thread about the SpeedPro kinetic splitter being abandoned... his reply was "absolutely false".
> 
> Bottom-line is that SpeeCo has not washed their hands of this problem. They are not happy with what has happened to the SpeedPro rack issue anymore than the owners that are having rack issues are unhappy. SpeeCo is working on a solution to remedy this problem.
> 
> I wish all companies were as customer driven as Speeco.



Thanks. Did they say when these things will be back in-store? It will be really interesting what changes have been made. To the product, price, warranty. $1k difference is, in our near banana republic currency, about $1300. Not to be sneezed at.


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## philwillmt

*Answers???*

Has anyone got an answer from SpeeCo as to whether or not the rack on the SpeedPro is designed to disengage automatically after striking a hard-to-split piece of wood? So far I have not got a reply back from them. Just wondering...


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## TFPace

KiwiBro,

Ron didn't say when they would be back in the stores, and I failed to ask also. I'm looking forward to the improvements too.


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## COUNTRY6543

Hahaha... You horizontal/ vertical guys keeps saying how you would just split the big stuff vertical but if you really want to step up to the plate, jump in my skid loader and quarter it with my skid mounted splitter. Now your splitting wood. While your wresting with it on the ground I have it quartered and lifting the quarter on the speed pro for further processing. And no I didn't buy it, Once again I didn't feel they were worth the asking price and made my own out of an old backhoe cylinder and "I" beam. Anyone that hasn't used one is really missing out. Split it, Lift it, load it, no touching at all.


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## Dozer Man

*Take one night off...*

Wow, I take a night out with the wife and miss out on all the fun!!! 

Thanks TFPace...Good info and good to hear. Ron was very informative when I talked to him last month. Real good guy. 

Country...Hope you can get going real soon. That means we all move forward too.

Jules...My guess TSC doesn't know how close the repairs are because they haven't asked.

Philwilmt...I'd like to know what speeco has to say about stalling the ram and disengagement also.

BSD...I FEEL YOUR PAIN !!!

Wood Doc...You came into this thread VERY late. BSD posted that pic a long time ago to prove to all of us what the SpeedPro would do, not what his hoe would do. You wanted to know if it would handle big stuff...he showed you. And I also have to ask...How'd you get that big round into the back of your truck?? I still like your sideboards though!! 

Vertical vs. horizontal...that is still an issue. It doesn't matter if it's kinetic or hydraulic. When I was researching splitters, I'd say it was 50/50 vertical vs. horizontal. Yes it is nice to bust big stuff vertically. But that's as far as it goes for me. I've split wood vertically for the last several years, and I can say that my back and knees suffer alot less splitting in the horizontal position. And trust me, I never thought I'd say that. Quartering rounds to a managable size is not that much of an issue. 

Just my thoughts...fwiw


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## ziggo_2

Sounds like we need to have a splitting competition! You guys bring your splitters, ill supply the wood.....The loser stacks:hmm3grin2orange:View attachment 211748
View attachment 211749


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## nysparkie

Dozer Man said:


> I'm confused...It takes you 15 seconds to clear a jam??? If the ram stalls on a piece of wood, shouldn't you just hit backwards on your engagement handle to disengage the rack???



For most simple jams yes. I am talking when a large splintered piece gets jammed up between the table and the ram head. It is stuck and takes a few whacks with another chunk of wood to free it up. Just hitting the engagement handle won't do a thing. When this happens it is OFF SWITCH and then restart.


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## philwillmt

ziggo_2 said:


> Sounds like we need to have a splitting competition! You guys bring your splitters, ill supply the wood.....The loser stacks:hmm3grin2orange:View attachment 211748
> View attachment 211749



Looks like maybe a half day of work for a SpeedPro! :hmm3grin2orange:


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## ziggo_2

philwillmt said:


> Looks like maybe a half day of work for a SpeedPro! :hmm3grin2orange:



:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:Haha you speedpro people are really out there....after its split and stacked your looking at about 15--20 cords (yes i know what a cord is) The first pile is about 12 ft wide 20 ft long and peaks at about 10ft logs are 2ft long....that one in the front corner is about 4 ft diameter and theres plenty more like it in there.

Second pile is 8 X 30,, 4 rows deep ... i know for a fact that pile comes out to over 5 cords after split and stacked.


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## philwillmt

ziggo_2 said:


> :hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:Haha you speedpro people are really out there....after its split and stacked your looking at about 15--20 cords (yes i know what a cord is) The first pile is about 12 ft wide 20 ft long and peaks at about 10ft logs are 2ft long....that one in the front corner is about 4 ft diameter and theres plenty more like it in there.
> 
> Second pile is 8 X 30,, 4 rows deep ... i know for a fact that pile comes out to over 5 cords after split and stacked.



OK, maybe I stretched it a bit...3/4 of a days work! :hmm3grin2orange:


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## indiansprings

I'm prolly pizzing in the wind, but I wrote the President of Speeco, offered to test any of their "new and improved" versions in any manner they wanted under daily use commercial conditions, providing HD video, pictures, wear measurements, fulfilling any engineering criteria they wanted performed at zero cost to Speeco, even said we'd return their machine to them at the end of however long they wanted it tested, providing they pay freight. They would have nothing to lose, they would gain seeing where any wear issues might lie, if it would hold up to the rigorous daily use of a commercial operation. All I would gain is the use of the splitter for an undetermined length of time. It will be interesting to see if they respond. If I were them I'd want a few tested in the field to prior to re-release.
I had sent off for the info packet on the DR, reviewed it, off course you get the follow up marketing, they are offering a deal starting today where if you buy one of the DR's and finance it thru them they are offering interest free financing for two years on their splitter, of course if you miss a payment it goes to 24.99%. 
They'll prolly sell a load of them offering the 0% for 24 months and extended warranty for 3 years at no additional cost. At around 108.00 a month a person could sell enough wood to pay for one easily.


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## Dozer Man

ziggo_2 said:


> :hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:Haha you speedpro people are really out there....after its split and stacked your looking at about 15--20 cords (yes i know what a cord is) The first pile is about 12 ft wide 20 ft long and peaks at about 10ft logs are 2ft long....that one in the front corner is about 4 ft diameter and theres plenty more like it in there.
> 
> Second pile is 8 X 30,, 4 rows deep ... i know for a fact that pile comes out to over 5 cords after split and stacked.



Ok that's not fair. We needed a beautiful woman wearing a bikini in front of those piles for perspective!!! That would have helped alot!


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## ziggo_2

What?? did I scare you all away?? 

Did speeco fix this yet? Hope they got something more than a new rack...I think theres more going on than a faulty rack.

Whats the word on the streets?


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## philwillmt

*RPM Range Test*

I split about a cord and a half of wood today with my SpeedPro, mostly knotty, odd shaped pine. I wanted to see how slow I could run the splitter and still have enough speed for the clutch to keep the flywheels spinning. I started out at 2300 rpm, and found this speed to be too slow for knotty wood. The good thing was that the flywheels and ram would stop like they are supposed to at this speed after a hard strike, but at 2300 rpm it was happening too easy and too often. I went up to 2400 rpm, then ended up settling on 2500 rpm. At that speed, the ram seldom ever stopped, and when it did, it stopped properly. Not one time did the ram automatically and violently disengage like it has in the past at higher rpm's. This reaffirms my belief that the engagement mechanism is improperly designed, allowing the ram to auto disengage with the pinion gear during and/or after a hard strike. Also, I still believe the ratio on this machine is off...i.e. the flywheel speed above 2500 rpm's is too fast. I did have to manually retract the ram several times today, apparently due to wood and/or bark getting between the bottom of the push plate and the brass guide/wear plate. Looks like they could have made the log cradle a little higher so the log would only touch the push ram to prevent this from happening. Still waiting to hear from SpeeCo on the intended design of the ram engagement mechanism...it's been close to two weeks since I sent them my question.


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## Dozer Man

*Good Morning All*

The saga continues. All of us speedpro owners are waiting patiently for our new parts. We're hoping that Santa will be bringing them for Christmas, but I'm sure we all doubt that will happen. The sooner the better though. 

Philwillmt,
I've stated my views on this thread quite often. IMHO, the problems with this machine are directly related to the engagement mechanism, and a way too fast flywheel/ram speed. If you don't get the engagement to be more reliable, imo you will keep breaking teeth on the rack, regardless of its hardness. If you don't get the flywheel and ram speed down, then you will never get a reliable engagement. To fix the engagement mechanism will take a redesign of the engagement cam. We will have to see what the engineers come up with(I have my own ideas). To slow down the flywheel and ram speed is easy...change the clutch drive pulley to a smaller diameter. (I'm figuring 1.75" to 2" outside pulley diameter will do)

In some ways, there is a part of me that is kinda glad Speeco is having the issues that they are having(its a very small part). Stop and think about this, what if speeco had made the speedpro with a gear ratio that set the flywheels to a slower speed, lets say 300rpm. First off, we all would agree to run our engines at, or close to, full throttle. But at that flywheel speed, the disengagement issues probly wouldn't have shown up...FOR A WHILE!!! So, we may not have had a rack issue...FOR A WHILE!!! All of the problems we are seeing and experiencing now might not have shown up UNTIL AFTER THE WARRANTY WAS OUT!!! 

Trust me, I'm not glad that we are having issues with these splitters. I'm just pointing out that there might be some sort of a "Silver Lining" for us...hopefully that is a dependable splitter for the long run.


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## BSD

philwillmt said:


> I did have to manually retract the ram several times today, apparently due to wood and/or bark getting between the bottom of the push plate and the brass guide/wear plate. Looks like they could have made the log cradle a little higher so the log would only touch the push ram to prevent this from happening. Still waiting to hear from SpeeCo on the intended design of the ram engagement mechanism...it's been close to two weeks since I sent them my question.


unbolt the head and check the wear plate bolts, there are 4. 3 of mine vibrated out and the fourth one sheared off. currently in my shop waiting to be drilled and tapped to go back together with some loc-tite.


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## indiansprings

Based on my communication with the company I believe they are committed to getting a solution to the issues resolved as soon as possible. I feel for those that are having to sit and wait, while having wood that needs split, but I'll bet they make it right will all the people who have already purchased them. Speeco has had an excellent reputation over the years on here for standing behind there product. I'm sure they are wanting to make sure what ever modifications/fixes they send out works 100% correctly before rushing them out that is half azzed. I'll bet they get it right and put a machine on the market that will save people 800-900 dollars over the competition.


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## philwillmt

*Phone Call*

Had a message from Special Products when I got home today...it was from the head of engineering. I'll try calling him back tomorrow. It will be interesting to hear what he has to say. Will keep everyone posted. Thanks BSD for the reminder about checking the mounting screws on the brass wear plate...I will do that the first chance I get. Dozer Man, I share your hopes that we will get to the bottom of these issues...the sooner the better! I don't particularly like being a guinea pig, but I'm more than happy to help SpeeCo refine their product...at least hopefully other consumers can benefit from our trials and errors! I just hope I don't break something in the mean time and get put out of commission from being able to split wood in the middle of winter, which, by the way, begins Thursday! In the mean time, I'm planning on hangin' in there like a hair in a biscuit!


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## philwillmt

indiansprings said:


> Based on my communication with the company I believe they are committed to getting a solution to the issues resolved as soon as possible. I feel for those that are having to sit and wait, while having wood that needs split, but I'll bet they make it right will all the people who have already purchased them. Speeco has had an excellent reputation over the years on here for standing behind there product. I'm sure they are wanting to make sure what ever modifications/fixes they send out works 100% correctly before rushing them out that is half azzed. I'll bet they get it right and put a machine on the market that will save people 800-900 dollars over the competition.



Indiansprings,

I sure hope you're right...only time will tell!


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## Dozer Man

*Can't Sleep...*



philwillmt said:


> I split about a cord and a half of wood today with my SpeedPro, mostly knotty, odd shaped pine. I wanted to see how slow I could run the splitter and still have enough speed for the clutch to keep the flywheels spinning. I started out at 2300 rpm, and found this speed to be too slow for knotty wood. The good thing was that the flywheels and ram would stop like they are supposed to at this speed after a hard strike, but at 2300 rpm it was happening too easy and too often. I went up to 2400 rpm, then ended up settling on 2500 rpm. At that speed, the ram seldom ever stopped, and when it did, it stopped properly. Not one time did the ram automatically and violently disengage like it has in the past at higher rpm's. This reaffirms my belief that the engagement mechanism is improperly designed, allowing the ram to auto disengage with the pinion gear during and/or after a hard strike. Also, I still believe the ratio on this machine is off...i.e. the flywheel speed above 2500 rpm's is too fast. I did have to manually retract the ram several times today, apparently due to wood and/or bark getting between the bottom of the push plate and the brass guide/wear plate. Looks like they could have made the log cradle a little higher so the log would only touch the push ram to prevent this from happening. Still waiting to hear from SpeeCo on the intended design of the ram engagement mechanism...it's been close to two weeks since I sent them my question.



Hey Phil,
Can't sleep so I was rereading your post. I put your rpm's into the pulley/rpm calculater along with my measurements. At 2300 engine rpm puts the flywheel speed at approx 415 rpm. At 2500 engine rpm, it puts flywheels at 450 rpm. Earlier BSD stated that he thought the clutch engaged at 2300 rpm. Even if someone were to spin it up faster than that and then slow to 2300rpm, it will never support any kind of load at the engagement rpm. I'm comparing that to a snowmobile, you can spin the rpm up to get it moving, and then lower it to run at the engagement rpm. It will go, but it will stop on the slightest incline unless you give it some gas. Not to mention, at 2300 rpm, the motor has limited torque and hp. Now at 2500rpm, you've eliminated any engagement/load issues, but it will still limit the hp/torque somewhat (which imho hp is not as necessary in kinetics). BUT, the bigger issue, at 2500rpm the flywheels are then spinning over 450rpm, which imho is still 100-150 rpm too fast. _The DR advertises approx 400rpm, and SS says 300rpm max._ I would have to guess 2500 rpm is pretty close to where I've been running mine all the time. Your findings, with your tach, have really confirmed what I've been saying all along, these things are way too fast. I still think the engagement "cam" needs reworked so there isn't any way of disengaging, except for manually or at the end of the stroke. But they need to slow the flywheels down if they want to keep them together for the long haul. If they don't slow them down, then I'll at least slow mine down.

Later Phil, let us know what you find out.


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## philwillmt

Dozer Man said:


> Hey Phil,
> Can't sleep so I was rereading your post. I put your rpm's into the pulley/rpm calculater along with my measurements. At 2300 engine rpm puts the flywheel speed at approx 415 rpm. At 2500 engine rpm, it puts flywheels at 450 rpm. Earlier BSD stated that he thought the clutch engaged at 2300 rpm. Even if someone were to spin it up faster than that and then slow to 2300rpm, it will never support any kind of load at the engagement rpm. I'm comparing that to a snowmobile, you can spin the rpm up to get it moving, and then lower it to run at the engagement rpm. It will go, but it will stop on the slightest incline unless you give it some gas. Not to mention, at 2300 rpm, the motor has limited torque and hp. Now at 2500rpm, you've eliminated any engagement/load issues, but it will still limit the hp/torque somewhat (which imho hp is not as necessary in kinetics). BUT, the bigger issue, at 2500rpm the flywheels are then spinning over 450rpm, which imho is still 100-150 rpm too fast. _The DR advertises approx 400rpm, and SS says 300rpm max._ I would have to guess 2500 rpm is pretty close to where I've been running mine all the time. Your findings, with your tach, have really confirmed what I've been saying all along, these things are way too fast. I still think the engagement "cam" needs reworked so there isn't any way of disengaging, except for manually or at the end of the stroke. But they need to slow the flywheels down if they want to keep them together for the long haul. If they don't slow them down, then I'll at least slow mine down.
> 
> Later Phil, let us know what you find out.



Dozer Man,

I definitely believe you're thinking is on the right track! Even at 2300 rpm engine speed, the engine never bogged down. As I have said before, I think a 4, or maybe even a 3 hp engine would be sufficient...once the flywheels get up to speed, it can't take that much energy to keep them up to speed! My mind goes back to the grade school playground days...you have to work your butt off and run like a wild horse to get all of those girls spinning on the merry-go-round (especially if you're going to impress them :hmm3grin2orange, but once you get it going, you can stop running and keep it spinning with one hand! Same principal with the splitter I think. I too still believe the ram engagement mechanism is the culprit with the disengagement problem. Also, if these are cheap clutches, they could also be part of the problem if the clutch pressures are inconsistent. We'll see...


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## sunfish

Dozer Man said:


> Hey Phil,
> Can't sleep so I was rereading your post. I put your rpm's into the pulley/rpm calculater along with my measurements. At 2300 engine rpm puts the flywheel speed at approx 415 rpm. At 2500 engine rpm, it puts flywheels at 450 rpm. Earlier BSD stated that he thought the clutch engaged at 2300 rpm. Even if someone were to spin it up faster than that and then slow to 2300rpm, it will never support any kind of load at the engagement rpm. I'm comparing that to a snowmobile, you can spin the rpm up to get it moving, and then lower it to run at the engagement rpm. * It will go, but it will stop on the slightest incline unless you give it some gas. * Not to mention, at 2300 rpm, the motor has limited torque and hp. Now at 2500rpm, you've eliminated any engagement/load issues, but it will still limit the hp/torque somewhat (which imho hp is not as necessary in kinetics). BUT, the bigger issue, at 2500rpm the flywheels are then spinning over 450rpm, which imho is still 100-150 rpm too fast. _The DR advertises approx 400rpm, and SS says 300rpm max._ I would have to guess 2500 rpm is pretty close to where I've been running mine all the time. Your findings, with your tach, have really confirmed what I've been saying all along, these things are way too fast. I still think the engagement "cam" needs reworked so there isn't any way of disengaging, except for manually or at the end of the stroke. But they need to slow the flywheels down if they want to keep them together for the long haul. If they don't slow them down, then I'll at least slow mine down.
> 
> Later Phil, let us know what you find out.



These small gas engines have a governor, that increases throttle when a load is applied. So that should not be a problem.

Also agree with what Phil said, a 3-4 hp gas motor is all that's needed with this type of machine. A 1 hp electric motor will run one...


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## Dozer Man

*Bad comparison*



sunfish said:


> These small gas engines have a governor, that increases throttle when a load is applied. So that should not be a problem.
> 
> Also agree with what Phil said, a 3-4 hp gas motor is all that's needed with this type of machine. A 1 hp electric motor will run one...



After rereading what I wrote last night, using a snowmobile as a comparison was a bad idea. The more I thought about it, and after some sleep finally, a snowmobile won't go unless the engine rpm is above the clutch engagement speed. 

You're absolutely right about the small engine governer though, it will automaticaly increase throttle under load to maintain its rpm. 

The bigger problem would be trying to run the engine right on the clutch engagement speed. I've tried all different throttle settings. And after hearing about the problems others have had, I just decided the lowest setting was the best. I'm guessing that 2500-2600rpm is where I've been running. That's just enough rpm where the engine and clutch seem to smooth out. But that's still better than 450 flywheel rpm. Compared to your J model running at around 300rpm, imho that is too much difference. The speedpro is running as slow as it will go, and the flywheels are still way too fast. If someone runs these things at WOT, which someone said these engines are revving clear up to 3900rpm, then the flywheels are cranking 700+rpm!!! I've cranked this thing up that fast a couple of times, it will actually lift smaller rounds off the cradle as it splits them. That kind of ram speed isn't necessary for any kinetic splitter. It just seemed destructive to me.


----------



## sunfish

Dozer Man said:


> After rereading what I wrote last night, using a snowmobile as a comparison was a bad idea. The more I thought about it, and after some sleep finally, a snowmobile won't go unless the engine rpm is above the clutch engagement speed.
> 
> You're absolutely right about the small engine governer though, it will automaticaly increase throttle under load to maintain its rpm.
> 
> The bigger problem would be trying to run the engine right on the clutch engagement speed. I've tried all different throttle settings. And after hearing about the problems others have had, I just decided the lowest setting was the best. I'm guessing that 2500-2600rpm is where I've been running. That's just enough rpm where the engine and clutch seem to smooth out. But that's still better than 450 flywheel rpm. Compared to your J model running at around 300rpm, imho that is too much difference. The speedpro is running as slow as it will go, and the flywheels are still way too fast. If someone runs these things at WOT, which someone said these engines are revving clear up to 3900rpm, then the flywheels are cranking 700+rpm!!! I've cranked this thing up that fast a couple of times, it will actually lift smaller rounds off the cradle as it splits them. That kind of ram speed isn't necessary for any kinetic splitter. It just seemed destructive to me.


Yeah, I figured your snow machine comparison was an middle of the night thing. 

That kind of speed will really hurt somebody, sooner or later...

I run my SS between 1/2 to 2/3rds throttle most of the time. Wide open on the nasty stuff.


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## Dozer Man

sunfish said:


> Yeah, I figured your snow machine comparison was an middle of the night thing.
> 
> That kind of speed will really hurt somebody, sooner or later...
> 
> I run my SS between 1/2 to 2/3rds throttle most of the time. Wide open on the nasty stuff.



Snowmobiles run using centrifugal clutches (drive and driven). For some reason I had a mental picture of the snowmo clutch engaging when I was thinking of clutches. Basically similar drive principle, but with much different outcomes.

BrainFart !!! :msp_tongue:


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## indiansprings

I'd say that Speeco will stand behind each and everyone of the units. They have always had an excellent reputation on here for standing behind their products, in the time I've been on this forum excellent customer service has been documented several times. I'll bet it boils down to one of their suppliers not heat treating racks consistently. I'm sure they are being very detailed in precisely identifying what caused the issue. I'll bet they will address the issue once they have identified the problem and correct it on any units in the field. It is clear they are dedicated in perfecting their version of the inertia splitter.
IMHO they will own the inertia splitter market once the problem is resolved. The price point is were inertia splitters should be, being a part of the Blount Corporation they have the capacity to mfg at volume levels that can service the entire "wood splitting market" something Super Split or DR could never do. It is clear they are passing on the saving of mass production on to the consumer. Every company has had it's hiccups in new product roll outs from time to time, just look at the recent Husky 562 fiasco. It's how a company handles them that matters in the end. I'm betting on Speeco making it right with every customer that purchased one. Their product just screams value, once it is rolled back out, it will soon become the dominant player in the inertia splitter market, due to value and the companies ability to distribute effectively. Not only through TSC but all the other stores that carry Blount products (Oregon,Carlton) etc.


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## Dozer Man

*This thread alone...*

With over 46000 views, and over 600 replies, this thread alone should show Blount/SpeeCo how much interest there is in kinetic splitters. This thread gives me good outlook that speeco will fix these things right. There are lots of potential buyers watching this thread to see what happens with the speedpro. Once they get the teething problems fixed and get these things reliable, I don't see SS or DR lowering there prices just to compete. I see speeco raising there prices.


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## RichL

*SpeedPro Update From SpeeCo*

We want to give everyone an update on our SpeedPro mechanical log splitter. As many of you know by now, we decided, in collaboration with our retail partner, to put the SpeedPro on temporary hold due to a non-safety related issue. We have determined that due to an inconsistent heat treat process, the teeth on the racks have the potential to break. To date this has only occurred on a small percentage of units, however, that's still unacceptable to us. Therefore, all the units have been placed on temporary hold until all store inventories can be inspected and the racks on the affected units replaced. 

We are in the process of testing updated racks. Upon approval of the racks and receipt of the required number of parts we will deploy our nationwide service network to the stores to make any repairs necessary. At the same time, customers who purchased a SpeedPro and experienced a problem, or just want their units inspected, can call our technical support line at 1-800-525-8322 (prompt 2, then 1) to obtain service. We will communicate further when our new rack inventory is available and our service centers are ready to make repairs.

We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this temporary hold has created. Here at SpeeCo we take great pride in producing high quality products and will continue to stand behind our products with industry-leading customer service.


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## indiansprings

This is outstanding information, it's rare in this day and age that a company stands behind what it sells like Speeco has done. It shows a dedicated level of corporate responsibility to it's customers.
I think this statement should answer anyone's questions about the unit. Looks like the supplier of the rack provided a small percentage that was not heat treated properly. It should remove any doubts about how dedicated Speeco is in getting this unit right. When re-introduced it will no doubt provide a "value" for those that want to buy an inertia splitter. It just shows that there are still companies out there that care about the quality of product, level of service and committment to both the customer and providing a value for the average working man. Kudo's to Speeco for addressing the issue and staying the course.


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## philwillmt

indiansprings said:


> This is outstanding information, it's rare in this day and age that a company stands behind what it sells like Speeco has done. It shows a dedicated level of corporate responsibility to it's customers.
> I think this statement should answer anyone's questions about the unit. Looks like the supplier of the rack provided a small percentage that was not heat treated properly. It should remove any doubts about how dedicated Speeco is in getting this unit right. When re-introduced it will no doubt provide a "value" for those that want to buy an inertia splitter. It just shows that there are still companies out there that care about the quality of product, level of service and committment to both the customer and providing a value for the average working man. Kudo's to Speeco for addressing the issue and staying the course.



Indiansprings,

The root problems have not been addressed yet...I wouldn't sing their praises too loudly prior to anything being fixed! I definitely hope they come through on customer service, but so far I have not heard the ram disengagement issue mentioned, and that to me is root problem #1. It's the same disengagement issue that RichL himself was questioning SuperSplit owners about back in July of this year...on this very forum! Root problem #2 is the excessive ram speed, and I have not heard any fixes for that either! I believe in giving credit where credit is due, but they have got to walk the walk...not just talk the talk. So far, all I am hearing is talk, and I don't particularly like what I am hearing. I'm not saying there is not some bad racks out there...I'm sure there may be. What I am saying is that a new rack does not address root causes...it only addresses a weak link associated with the root causes. Like I said before...time will tell, and hopefully sooner than later! And, yes, I am aware that everyone has an opinion, and this happens to be mine. However, I will say that my inclinations are based on research and good ole common sense...seemingly a rarity these days! :msp_unsure:


----------



## Jester3775

*Things I figured out*

Hi Guys, some of my findings.
I purchased a speedPro when they first came out. (here anyway) I had a friend who had a SuperSplit so I had a little heads up on these designs.
Upon getting the first one home I noticed the engine pulley was roughly 1" out of line with the flywheel with no way to adjust without torching and welding. I returned that one and got the only other one they had, the demo unit if you will. That one was not perfectly in line either but workable.
Upon finally having some time to work with it for a few hours, here is what I found. First off, I feel like the ram speed is too fast, even upon lowering engine speed while keeping the clutch engaged. (My opinion) Tended to throw wood around, kind of scary to me. Biggest problem I found though was the ram disengaging. I ended up taking it in the shop and overviewing. If you pull the covers off and look inside you will find the "engagement" rod connects to a cast piece with 2 roller bearings that ride on top of ram or rack. I believe the problem with the rack disengagement is found here. It's not easy but if you push down on the rack and spin the flywheel by hand to engage the rack, (without engine running !) make sure the cast piece with rollers goes all the way forward. It should stop against a rod, maybe 3/8", that acts as it's stop. I believe that's where the problem is. If the cast piece doesn't go far enough over center, (from the pivot point) it will disengage too easily. I took apart and used a tie rod end fork to tap the welded in stop forward a little and that took care of the disengagement problem ! I then also loosened the belt some as well as shot wd-40 in the clutch (someone suggested earlier) and that seemed to take care of the problem (belt and or clutch slipping when it couldn't make it thru a piece of wood.) I still feel like the speed of the ram is too fast. When you lower the engine speed to compensate you loose power from motor as well as not having as much "power" stored in flywheels, because they are spinning slower. IMHO the gearing should be changed and the stop I am talking about needs to be addressed. Other side note, the problem we are having with the "engagement rod" bending I believe is from the bolted and tack welded stop on it. I believe when the ram "violently" disengages the stop and or bolt catches on edges of plate (with safety) it rides thru. I think a person should get in the habit when running the splitter to quickly and fully engage, then take hand quickly off to avoid hurting hand. (However, with the fixes I have mentioned, The "violent disengagement" is perhaps a thing of the past and this may be a non-issue)
I feel bad and embarrassed for Speeco. I am thankful for the reasonable price compared to others and I guess we need to accept that we are being used for their "quality control" however this mistake or mistakes are going to cost them to deal with. I wonder, if in the end, they would have come out better to test more themselves ? Part of me finds it hard to believe that a company of their magnitude could have something like this get away from them so far ? Perhaps this is an example of China quality vs American quality ? Bummer there is such a huge cost difference between the two  
Each to their own, but I had to figure this thing out, just for my piece of mind, but I am probably done with these people myself.


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## philwillmt

Jester3775 said:


> Hi Guys, some of my findings.
> I purchased a speedPro when they first came out. (here anyway) I had a friend who had a SuperSplit so I had a little heads up on these designs.
> Upon getting the first one home I noticed the engine pulley was roughly 1" out of line with the flywheel with no way to adjust without torching and welding. I returned that one and got the only other one they had, the demo unit if you will. That one was not perfectly in line either but workable.
> Upon finally having some time to work with it for a few hours, here is what I found. First off, I feel like the ram speed is too fast, even upon lowering engine speed while keeping the clutch engaged. (My opinion) Tended to throw wood around, kind of scary to me. Biggest problem I found though was the ram disengaging. I ended up taking it in the shop and overviewing. If you pull the covers off and look inside you will find the "engagement" rod connects to a cast piece with 2 roller bearings that ride on top of ram or rack. I believe the problem with the rack disengagement is found here. It's not easy but if you push down on the rack and spin the flywheel by hand to engage the rack, (without engine running !) make sure the cast piece with rollers goes all the way forward. It should stop against a rod, maybe 3/8", that acts as it's stop. I believe that's where the problem is. If the cast piece doesn't go far enough over center, (from the pivot point) it will disengage too easily. I took apart and used a tie rod end fork to tap the welded in stop forward a little and that took care of the disengagement problem ! I then also loosened the belt some as well as shot wd-40 in the clutch (someone suggested earlier) and that seemed to take care of the problem (belt and or clutch slipping when it couldn't make it thru a piece of wood.) I still feel like the speed of the ram is too fast. When you lower the engine speed to compensate you loose power from motor as well as not having as much "power" stored in flywheels, because they are spinning slower. IMHO the gearing should be changed and the stop I am talking about needs to be addressed. Other side note, the problem we are having with the "engagement rod" bending I believe is from the bolted and tack welded stop on it. I believe when the ram "violently" disengages the stop and or bolt catches on edges of plate (with safety) it rides thru. I think a person should get in the habit when running the splitter to quickly and fully engage, then take hand quickly off to avoid hurting hand. (However, with the fixes I have mentioned, The "violent disengagement" is perhaps a thing of the past and this may be a non-issue)
> I feel bad and embarrassed for Speeco. I am thankful for the reasonable price compared to others and I guess we need to accept that we are being used for their "quality control" however this mistake or mistakes are going to cost them to deal with. I wonder, if in the end, they would have come out better to test more themselves ? Part of me finds it hard to believe that a company of their magnitude could have something like this get away from them so far ? Perhaps this is an example of China quality vs American quality ? Bummer there is such a huge cost difference between the two
> Each to their own, but I had to figure this thing out, just for my piece of mind, but I am probably done with these people myself.



Jester3775,

Spot on! Couldn't have said it better myself! I too view the violent disengagement as a safety issue...I have nearly had my fingers whacked more than once. I quickly learned to engage the ram and remove my hand as quickly as possible. I can tell you right now that I am NOT going to be happy with this unit until both of these issues are addressed. I hope SpeeCo comes through for us! I have been very patient with them thus far.


----------



## MNGuns

Jester3775 said:


> Hi Guys, some of my findings.
> I purchased a speedPro when they first came out. (here anyway) I had a friend who had a SuperSplit so I had a little heads up on these designs.
> Upon getting the first one home I noticed the engine pulley was roughly 1" out of line with the flywheel with no way to adjust without torching and welding. I returned that one and got the only other one they had, the demo unit if you will. That one was not perfectly in line either but workable.
> Upon finally having some time to work with it for a few hours, here is what I found. First off, I feel like the ram speed is too fast, even upon lowering engine speed while keeping the clutch engaged. (My opinion) Tended to throw wood around, kind of scary to me. Biggest problem I found though was the ram disengaging. I ended up taking it in the shop and overviewing. If you pull the covers off and look inside you will find the "engagement" rod connects to a cast piece with 2 roller bearings that ride on top of ram or rack. I believe the problem with the rack disengagement is found here. It's not easy but if you push down on the rack and spin the flywheel by hand to engage the rack, (without engine running !) make sure the cast piece with rollers goes all the way forward. It should stop against a rod, maybe 3/8", that acts as it's stop. I believe that's where the problem is. If the cast piece doesn't go far enough over center, (from the pivot point) it will disengage too easily. I took apart and used a tie rod end fork to tap the welded in stop forward a little and that took care of the disengagement problem ! I then also loosened the belt some as well as shot wd-40 in the clutch (someone suggested earlier) and that seemed to take care of the problem (belt and or clutch slipping when it couldn't make it thru a piece of wood.) I still feel like the speed of the ram is too fast. When you lower the engine speed to compensate you loose power from motor as well as not having as much "power" stored in flywheels, because they are spinning slower. IMHO the gearing should be changed and the stop I am talking about needs to be addressed. Other side note, the problem we are having with the "engagement rod" bending I believe is from the bolted and tack welded stop on it. I believe when the ram "violently" disengages the stop and or bolt catches on edges of plate (with safety) it rides thru. I think a person should get in the habit when running the splitter to quickly and fully engage, then take hand quickly off to avoid hurting hand. (However, with the fixes I have mentioned, The "violent disengagement" is perhaps a thing of the past and this may be a non-issue)
> I feel bad and embarrassed for Speeco. I am thankful for the reasonable price compared to others and I guess we need to accept that we are being used for their "quality control" however this mistake or mistakes are going to cost them to deal with. I wonder, if in the end, they would have come out better to test more themselves ? Part of me finds it hard to believe that a company of their magnitude could have something like this get away from them so far ? Perhaps this is an example of China quality vs American quality ? Bummer there is such a huge cost difference between the two
> Each to their own, but I had to figure this thing out, just for my piece of mind, but I am probably done with these people myself.




<img src="http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51AMKW9HCKL._SL500_AA300_.jpg">


opcorn:


----------



## COUNTRY6543

Ok guys, Before we started calling - emailing, Speeco had not even visited this site or looked at the boards. I know I have told Shaun at customer service about us and that he should take a look. I think that we have got their attention. 

Jester is, as quoted "spot on" with the solutions. I currently have fixed two blown teeth on my rack and putting it on cruise control until this thing is figured out ( which I think we already have) Slow the thing down and move the cam stop foreward. Only thing left in question is, how much to move the cam stop foreward and how much to slow it down? The fifty million dollar question.


----------



## philwillmt

COUNTRY6543 said:


> Ok guys, Before we started calling - emailing, Speeco had not even visited this site or looked at the boards. I know I have told Shaun at customer service about us and that he should take a look. I think that we have got their attention.
> 
> Jester is, as quoted "spot on" with the solutions. I currently have fixed two blown teeth on my rack and putting it on cruise control until this thing is figured out ( which I think we already have) Slow the thing down and move the cam stop foreward. Only thing left in question is, how much to move the cam stop foreward and how much to slow it down? The fifty million dollar question.



Country6453,

I would think some of the SpeeCo folks are still watching this thread, but obviously they have not been very responsive. The reason I say that is because early on when I experienced the out of balance issue with my new splitter, one of the SpeeCo service representatives sent me a private message offering to help with the issue, and that was definately appreciated! So, my guess is that they are still following this thread, but until recently have not posted any responses. The post from RichL is the first response I have seen, and based on his previous posts, I still haven't figured out exactly who RichL is, nor what is title/position with SpeeCo is. I will resume trying to get in touch with the head of Engineering next week...hopefully he will be available.


----------



## indiansprings

Without going into any details I can 100% positively say they have read and are paying attention to the threads. It is my perception they are committed to their customers 110%. I believe they more than committed to trying to make the splitter as good if not better than anything on the market.


----------



## Naked Arborist

*Maybe Speedco will read this*

Speedco get back to me if your interested in doing any field test with your new splitters. I am in the Delaware Valley about fifteen minutes east of Philly. If you have any splitters available to purchase at this time please contact me about them. I have plenty of wood to be split from seasoned hardwoods to green softwoods. At the very least I would like some type of reply to this message posted hear.


Now will see how good the company is about following this tread and if they are serious about getting the splitters out in the field fixed now!

I'll wait maybe a few more weeks to buy one and then I'll just build my own inertia splitter from scratch.

Bottom line is we are all losing money waiting for the factory to get it done!!!


----------



## BILLSFIREWOOD

I got my $ back and have a DR now. In the 8 days we have had it thay have split 27 cord and it is doing good. We kiln dry the firewood and the $ I get from that will pay for the DR.


----------



## ziggo_2

Did you guys get a owners manual with the speed pro...just curious if it says how to operate it as far as speed and such.


----------



## philwillmt

ziggo_2 said:


> Did you guys get a owners manual with the speed pro...just curious if it says how to operate it as far as speed and such.



The owners manual states "the throttle should be set at the maximum speed to develop the required power. Refer to Kohler engine manual for more detail." The Kohler engine manual states "the maximum allowable high-idle speed for these engines is 3850 +/- 100 RPM, no load." I installed a tachometer on mine a while back, and I can tell you that I do not feel comfortable running mine much faster than 2600 RPM. I have consistently been setting it right at 2500 - 2550 RPM. I just went outside and ran mine, and here is what I found: maximum RPM=3790, cycle time at 2520 RPM=1.4 seconds, consistently. The owners manual states "2.5 second cycle time." There is no way that I would even _consider_ operating this machine with the throttle wide open! It would be a disaster waiting to happen! No wonder people are blowing teeth off the racks! Whoever engineered this machine better go trade in their calculator for another model!


----------



## philwillmt

*Received some information from SpeeCo today...*

I got a call from the head of Engineering with SpeeCo today. We discussed the auto ram disengagement issue, and he assured me that it is normal for the rack to auto disengage from time to time, depending on the circumstances. He also assured me that the other brands do the same thing. We also discussed engine speed, and he told me there is no need to run it at full speed. I couldn't agree with him more...at least on this issue! I informed him that the owners manual says to run it at full throttle. I was told SpeeCo's remedy is going to be a rack gear and push rod (a.k.a. engagement rod) replacement. Not sure what that has to do with the over-speed and repeated auto disengagement issues, but oh well. We should be hearing something from them in one form or another within a couple of weeks. Based on this information, I'm not sure where to go from here! Not what I was hoping to hear...:help:


----------



## CUCV

How many teeth on the pinion and what is the approximate diameter? What is the diameter of the flywheel and engine pulley? As a supersplit owner I am surprised to hear that pinion is spinning that fast on the Speedpro. I have messed around quite a bit with my Supersplit and found that I did not like a faster pinion speed than what was designed.



philwillmt said:


> Indiansprings,
> 
> The root problems have not been addressed yet...I wouldn't sing their praises too loudly prior to anything being fixed! I definitely hope they come through on customer service, but so far I have not heard the ram disengagement issue mentioned, and that to me is root problem #1. It's the same disengagement issue that RichL himself was questioning SuperSplit owners about back in July of this year...on this very forum! Root problem #2 is the excessive ram speed, and I have not heard any fixes for that either! I believe in giving credit where credit is due, but they have got to walk the walk...not just talk the talk. So far, all I am hearing is talk, and I don't particularly like what I am hearing. I'm not saying there is not some bad racks out there...I'm sure there may be. What I am saying is that a new rack does not address root causes...it only addresses a weak link associated with the root causes. Like I said before...time will tell, and hopefully sooner than later! And, yes, I am aware that everyone has an opinion, and this happens to be mine. However, I will say that my inclinations are based on research and good ole common sense...seemingly a rarity these days! :msp_unsure:


----------



## philwillmt

CUCV said:


> How many teeth on the pinion and what is the approximate diameter? What is the diameter of the flywheel and engine pulley? As a supersplit owner I am surprised to hear that pinion is spinning that fast on the Speedpro. I have messed around quite a bit with my Supersplit and found that I did not like a faster pinion speed than what was designed.



CUCV,

I will have to do some measuring to get that information. Question...does the ram on your Super Split automatically disengage after striking a hard piece of wood? If so, does it happen more often at higher speeds? And, if so, are any parts breaking or bending when it happens? Are there any safety issues or concerns associated with the auto disengagement, if and when this happens? I'm told ALL inertia splitters auto disengage, regardless of manufacturer. I would like to learn more about this from a Super Split owner's perspective. Thanks!


----------



## CampHamp

philwillmt said:


> Question...does the ram on your Super Split automatically disengage after striking a hard piece of wood? If so, does it happen more often at higher speeds? And, if so, are any parts breaking or bending when it happens? Are there any safety issues or concerns associated with the auto disengagement, if and when this happens? I'm told ALL inertia splitters auto disengage, regardless of manufacturer. I would like to learn more about this from a Super Split owner's perspective. Thanks!



From a DR-owner's perspective...
The DR machine (5 cords through it) does not disengage when it gets stuck in a hard log. The engine chugs and strains, but the operator would need to release the handle for the ram to disengage. Every machine will disengage at the end of the rack, at full extension. Maybe that is what the engineer meant when he said all models do this? Also, with the DR, if there is much pressure on the ram at the very end of its extension, then the handle is forced back instead of its usually boring "clank" and release. This doesn't happen often, but a couple of times a split piece has turned sideways in front of the ram at the last second and the handle was forced back with some violence (happend twice to me - so now I am more careful to release the split before the end of the ram travel just in case).

Hope that helps.

So it seems like the SpeeCo team have dropped the new, harder rack replacement idea. I thought they would opt to slow the engine down and disable the disengagement mechanism to accomplish the fix, though. The smaller pinion is an interesting twist! It will slow the ram speed, but will you then need to spin those wheels faster than 50% throttle and then have more kenitic energy behind that ram? Maybe the new rod will have no disengegment flange and it will disengage only at the end of the rack, like their competitor's do.

I hope it works as I think that strong competition will only help to drive innovation, improvements and lower prices into this important market...


----------



## Dozer Man

*too fast*

These measurements were taken with a tape measure. They are by no means exact, but they are very close.

Flywheel dia. = 17.375" (measured @ most inside point of belt)
Drive pulley dia. = 3.125" (measured @ most inside point of belt)
Pinion pitch dia. = 1.625" (outside dia. 2" minus the height of 1 tooth @ 3/8"per tooth)

Using the recommended engine rpm of 3850 rpm......
And giving a 10% +/- error......
That equates to.....

Flywheel/pinion speed = 692 rpm (+/-10% = 622-761rpm)
Pinion gear circumpherence = 5.1025" (+/-10% = 4.6-6.61")
Ram speed = 4.9 feet per second (fps) (+/-10% = 4.41-5.39 fps)
Even at engine speed of 2550rpm, that equates to a ram speed of 3.5-3.9fps 

Sounds fast to me....

My best guess for SS ram speed is between 2-2.5 fps @ wide open throttle (wot), NOT @ just above clutch engagement speed.

*And I also would like to ask all SuperSplit and DR Rapidfire owners..... *
_Does your engagement handle ever "kick-out of gear" when it can't split a round??? Or does it "stall the ram" until you disengage the engagement handle manually??? _

Again and still... Imho... This thing needs a smaller diameter drive clutch pulley!!! Needs to be between 1.5" to 2". 1.75" would be my actual preference, that would let me run my engine @ 3000-3200rpm.


----------



## sunfish

philwillmt said:


> I got a call from the head of Engineering with SpeeCo today. We discussed the auto ram disengagement issue, *and he assured me that it is normal for the rack to auto disengage from time to time, depending on the circumstances. He also assured me that the other brands do the same thing.* We also discussed engine speed, and he told me there is no need to run it at full speed. I couldn't agree with him more...at least on this issue! I informed him that the owners manual says to run it at full throttle. I was told SpeeCo's remedy is going to be a rack gear and push rod (a.k.a. engagement rod) replacement. Not sure what that has to do with the over-speed and repeated auto disengagement issues, but oh well. We should be hearing something from them in one form or another within a couple of weeks. Based on this information, I'm not sure where to go from here! Not what I was hoping to hear...:help:


He is very wrong here. I've had my SS 18 months and have split around 20+ full cords. It has not once disengaged when hitting a piece of wood. I have to manually disengage when it hits a piece it can't split. The ram also re-tracks when I do this and 9 times out of ten it only takes one more hit to split the gnarly piece.


----------



## Cmccul8146

sunfish said:


> He is very wrong here. It has not once disengaged when hitting a piece of wood. I have to manually disengage when it hits a piece it can't split.
> 
> Exactly right sunfish!!! My homebuilt splitter has NEVER disengaged when it hit a piece it wouldn't split on 1 hit. The ram stops because the clutch is slipping & you manually disengage the gears, as you said. If it's disengaging on it's own, something is not adjusted just right. Someone on here commented that the cam stop has to be set so that the cam is just forward of being verticle when engaged, but I learned as I was building mine that the cam has to be EXACTLY verticle , or perpendicular to the rack when engaged, or else it may not disengage at the end of the stroke. Luckily I discovered this by turning my flywheels by hand before ever putting anything under power. Also some of the DR owners who have commented on the SpeedPro thread mentioned holding the engagement lever when they split. With the SS or my homebuilt, when you pull the lever, you let it go & get ready to grab another piece to split. No holding lever necessary at all. SpeedPro's problems mainly lie in spinning flywheels way too fast, and probably improperly adjusted cam stop. The MAX rpm for the cast flywheels is 300, so someone is likely to have a flywheel explode if the are running at the speeds the owners here say. DR advertises theirs at 400 rpm, which is also too fast for cast flywheels. A piece of sheepskin does not make a guy an engineer any more than standing in a garage makes him a car. A little common sense, research , & planning goes a long way in product design.


----------



## Jester3775

*Please*

Hi Guys,
Please re-read post # 609
I feel confident I figured it out, it really is that simple.
I am talking from recent, personal and hands on experience.
If anyone has any additional questions, please ask.

Jesse


----------



## Dozer Man

*Simple but effective*



Jester3775 said:


> Hi Guys,
> Please re-read post # 609
> I feel confident I figured it out, it really is that simple.
> I am talking from recent, personal and hands on experience.
> If anyone has any additional questions, please ask.
> 
> Jesse



Thanks for reminding me of your earlier post. I planned on looking at your post again when I got time to tear into this thing. Everything you said makes perfect sense. I've seen in the DR pics and vids that they have an adjustible stop and assumed that was the place to start. How much wood have you split since you did your fix? Any knotted pieces? I'm sure I will have more questions when I tear into it. 

From what I've heard, Speeco is going to replace the rack and the engagement rod. Not sure if that is all they are going to replace. We should know in a couple of weeks though.


----------



## Jules083

philwillmt said:


> I got a call from the head of Engineering with SpeeCo today. We discussed the auto ram disengagement issue, and he assured me that it is normal for the rack to auto disengage from time to time, depending on the circumstances. He also assured me that the other brands do the same thing.



Look at the video in this thread, at around 2:10. That is what my new SS does, apparantly the DR does the same thing. I'd like to know what 'other brands' he was referring to.

*edit- here's the thread: http://www.arboristsite.com/firewood-heating-wood-burning-equipment/189044.htm

Dozer Man, I haven't forgot about you. It was dark when I got home, I don't have any lights in my shed. I'll get that measurement tomorrow morning.


----------



## Jester3775

Dozer Man said:


> Thanks for reminding me of your earlier post. I planned on looking at your post again when I got time to tear into this thing. Everything you said makes perfect sense. I've seen in the DR pics and vids that they have an adjustible stop and assumed that was the place to start. How much wood have you split since you did your fix? Any knotted pieces? I'm sure I will have more questions when I tear into it.
> 
> From what I've heard, Speeco is going to replace the rack and the engagement rod. Not sure if that is all they are going to replace. We should know in a couple of weeks though.



Hi Dozer !
I split with it for a few hours after the last fix, did not have a single disengagement.
Dealt with a # of knotted pcs. that stopped it, but stopped it like it should ! (IMHO)


----------



## philwillmt

Jules083 said:


> Look at the video in this thread, at around 2:10. That is what my new SS does, apparantly the DR does the same thing. I'd like to know what 'other brands' he was referring to.
> 
> *edit- here's the thread: http://www.arboristsite.com/firewood-heating-wood-burning-equipment/189044.htm
> 
> Dozer Man, I haven't forgot about you. It was dark when I got home, I don't have any lights in my shed. I'll get that measurement tomorrow morning.



This video shows exactly what I have been saying all along...it shows what _should_ happen when splitting a hard piece of wood. I can assure you that my SpeedPro definately does not react that way! No one should have to be continually concerned about getting their hand out of the way of the handle quick enough before getting a broke finger from a violent auto disengagement. It's simply a matter of poor design! By the way...the other brands the engineer was referring to are the Super Split and the DR Rapidfire. Go figure.


----------



## philwillmt

Cmccul8146 said:


> sunfish said:
> 
> 
> 
> He is very wrong here. It has not once disengaged when hitting a piece of wood. I have to manually disengage when it hits a piece it can't split.
> 
> Someone on here commented that the cam stop has to be set so that the cam is just forward of being verticle when engaged, but I learned as I was building mine that the cam has to be EXACTLY verticle , or perpendicular to the rack when engaged, or else it may not disengage at the end of the stroke.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The position of the engagement mechanism is one of two things the SpeeCo engineer and I agree on, and that is that there is a very fine line concerning where the engagement mechanism should stop. The rack and pinion gear are fully meshed, or at least as much as they ever will be, when the engagement mechanism is exactly vertical. As a result, any travel before or past the vertical position means the rack and pinion are less than fully engaged. The further away from exactly vertical, the more the disengagement. However, at exactly vertical, the mechanism is likely to move in either direction. In other words, there's nothing keeping it from disengaging. Therefore, there has to be a stop, and the stop should be set to allow the engagement mechanism to travel ever so slightly past vertical. In this position, the mechanism is "locked" into place, and can only change positions when the ram reaches the end of its travel, or when the handle is manually disengaged. And, this was another thing the SpeeCo engineer and I did NOT agree on...he says it is normal for the ram to disengage when something hard is hit, and I still say it is not. In my way of thinking, if the engagement mechanism is set properly, it CANNOT disengage when something hard is hit, as that will only apply lateral force to the mechanism, thus pushing it even harder against the stop. A good example of this, for the bow hunters out there, is a mechanical release. The stop on the trigger is set to stop just past center of the roller, thus "locking" it in the closed position. When set properly, you can pull against it as hard as you want to, but you'll never open it until you pull the trigger ever so slightly, which causes the roller to go past vertical and release the string. It's a simple, yet ingenious design, and it has to be set properly to work the way it is designed to work.
Click to expand...


----------



## Jester3775

philwillmt said:


> This video shows exactly what I have been saying all along...it shows what _should_ happen when splitting a hard piece of wood. I can assure you that my SpeedPro definately does not react that way! No one should have to be continually concerned about getting their hand out of the way of the handle quick enough before getting a broke finger from a violent auto disengagement. It's simply a matter of poor design! By the way...the other brands the engineer was referring to are the Super Split and the DR Rapidfire. Go figure.



With the fixes I talked about in my earlier posts, my SpeedPro reacted almost exactly the same way.
(Although I still didn't like the higher geared speed of the "ram")
Thanks for the link to the very good reference video !


----------



## Jester3775

philwillmt said:


> Cmccul8146 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The position of the engagement mechanism is one of two things the SpeeCo engineer and I agree on, and that is that there is a very fine line concerning where the engagement mechanism should stop. The rack and pinion gear are fully meshed, or at least as much as they ever will be, when the engagement mechanism is exactly vertical. As a result, any travel before or past the vertical position means the rack and pinion are less than fully engaged. The further away from exactly vertical, the more the disengagement. However, at exactly vertical, the mechanism is likely to move in either direction. In other words, there's nothing keeping it from disengaging. Therefore, there has to be a stop, and the stop should be set to allow the engagement mechanism to travel ever so slightly past vertical. In this position, the mechanism is "locked" into place, and can only change positions when the ram reaches the end of its travel, or when the handle is manually disengaged. And, this was another thing the SpeeCo engineer and I did NOT agree on...he says it is normal for the ram to disengage when something hard is hit, and I still say it is not. In my way of thinking, if the engagement mechanism is set properly, it CANNOT disengage when something hard is hit, as that will only apply lateral force to the mechanism, thus pushing it even harder against the stop. A good example of this, for the bow hunters out there, is a mechanical release. The stop on the trigger is set to stop just past center of the roller, thus "locking" it in the closed position. When set properly, you can pull against it as hard as you want to, but you'll never open it until you pull the trigger ever so slightly, which causes the roller to go past vertical and release the string. It's a simple, yet ingenious design, and it has to be set properly to work the way it is designed to work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMHO opinion you are exactly right on, and you worded it very well (made good sense !)
> Thanks
Click to expand...


----------



## Cmccul8146

philwillmt said:


> Cmccul8146 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The rack and pinion gear are fully meshed, or at least as much as they ever will be, when the engagement mechanism is exactly vertical. As a result, any travel before or past the vertical position means the rack and pinion are less than fully engaged. The further away from exactly vertical, the more the disengagement.
> However, at exactly vertical, the mechanism is likely to move in either direction. In other words, there's nothing keeping it from disengaging. Therefore, there has to be a stop, and the stop should be set to allow the engagement mechanism to travel ever so slightly past vertical. In this position, the mechanism is "locked" into place, and can only change positions when the ram reaches the end of its travel, or when the handle is manually disengaged.
> 
> philwillmt, I fully agree with the 1st paragraph of your above post, but not so much with the 2nd paragraph. My homebuilt inertia splitter has the cam stop located on the engagement rod. When I pull the handle to engage ,the stop bottoms out on the bracket so that the cam is exactly vertical. Doesn't need to go past vertical to prevent disengagement for 1 simple reason. When the gears are engaged, the rack lifting spring is keeping upward pressure on the cam roller. As the rack is being moved out by the pinion gear, the cam roller is "locked" against the rack & rotating counterclockwise. The pressure from the rack lifting spring is trying to pull the cam roller in the direction of rack travel, so it won't go in the opposite direction as you might think. The "trip relief" at the end of the rack causes the cam & rack to "unlock" , spring lifts the rack off pinion, & return springs pull rack back to home position. Anything past straight up & down on the cam and my homebuilt didn't disengage properly every time before I put an engine on it. I corrected this by adjusting the stop & have not had any issues with it. , I can't really say for these commercially built splitters, but it works for me. Mine was built from 3 pictures I took of a SS I saw at a demo & a 3 year old memory.
Click to expand...


----------



## philwillmt

Cmccul8146 said:


> philwillmt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cmccul8146 said:
> 
> 
> 
> philwillmt, I fully agree with the 1st paragraph of your above post, but not so much with the 2nd paragraph. My homebuilt inertia splitter has the cam stop located on the engagement rod. When I pull the handle to engage ,the stop bottoms out on the bracket so that the cam is exactly vertical. Doesn't need to go past vertical to prevent disengagement for 1 simple reason. When the gears are engaged, the rack lifting spring is keeping upward pressure on the cam roller. As the rack is being moved out by the pinion gear, the cam roller is "locked" against the rack & rotating counterclockwise. The pressure from the rack lifting spring is trying to pull the cam roller in the direction of rack travel, so it won't go in the opposite direction as you might think. The "trip relief" at the end of the rack causes the cam & rack to "unlock" , spring lifts the rack off pinion, & return springs pull rack back to home position. Anything past straight up & down on the cam and my homebuilt didn't disengage properly every time before I put an engine on it. I corrected this by adjusting the stop & have not had any issues with it. , I can't really say for these commercially built splitters, but it works for me. Mine was built from 3 pictures I took of a SS I saw at a demo & a 3 year old memory.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cmccul8146,
> 
> When I say "just past vertical", I am talking about an amount of movement so minute that one would probably not notice it without some precision measurement devices...mere thousandths of an inch! That's all it would take to "break over center" and keep the roller locked, but not so much that it wouldn't unlock. However, it's perfectly OK if we disagree...that's what makes America GREAT!!! :biggrin:
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## Dozer Man

*Adjustible Stop*



philwillmt said:


> Cmccul8146 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> philwillmt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Cmccul8146,
> 
> When I say "just past vertical", I am talking about an amount of movement so minute that one would probably not notice it without some precision measurement devices...mere thousandths of an inch! That's all it would take to "break over center" and keep the roller locked, but not so much that it wouldn't unlock. However, it's perfectly OK if we disagree...that's what makes America GREAT!!! :biggrin:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The key word I keep hearing is "Adjustible Stop". You might be agreeing to disagree but I'm pretty sure you are both on the very same page. To me, the reason SS, DR, and you too Claude, put and adjustible stop on the engagement mechinism is to keep it within a specific tolerance. Not to mention, as parts wear over time and use, this tolerance will need to be checked and adjusted. After rereading what Jester3775 had done to his machine, I am confident that all of us can get our engagement mechinism set into the proper tolerance to keep the cam engaged properly. I'm actually excited to dig into it when I can get the time. But what about 100 cord down the road?? Will it need adjusted to keep into tolerance?? And I will say it again...this machine needs a smaller clutch drive pulley!
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## Jester3775

*Thought*



Dozer Man said:


> philwillmt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cmccul8146 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The key word I keep hearing is "Adjustible Stop". You might be agreeing to disagree but I'm pretty sure you are both on the very same page. To me, the reason SS, DR, and you too Claude, put and adjustible stop on the engagement mechinism is to keep it within a specific tolerance. Not to mention, as parts wear over time and use, this tolerance will need to be checked and adjusted. After rereading what Jester3775 had done to his machine, I am confident that all of us can get our engagement mechinism set into the proper tolerance to keep the cam engaged properly. I'm actually excited to dig into it when I can get the time. But what about 100 cord down the road?? Will it need adjusted to keep into tolerance?? And I will say it again...this machine needs a smaller clutch drive pulley!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dozer,
> I think you are right on with the idea of adjustable stop. My method definitely worked but the thought of having to adjust with a hammer every now and again does sound crazy. I wonder how the other brands have that set up.......... philwillmt is I believe right on with his last post talking about being only slightly over center. I found from experience that I could be over center quite a bit and still work I believe as it should as far as disengagement at end of stroke. The ramped end of "ram" allowed enough clearance for this to work. However this also made it hard to disengage by hand when the unit did get stopped (as we believe it should) mid-stroke because I was "overcenter" too far. This required another slight adjustment with hammer, but then I had it ! Tearing down far enough to adjust with my tie rod fork and hammer was a pain though.
> Thought on smaller pulley though. If we in essence slow down the flywheels we are actually (IMHO) storing less energy there. I think that maybe that is not the right way to go, even though it would allow us to run engine at higher speed and gain power there. My thinking wants the flywheels and engine at top speed (for max power) however I would like the gearing to change, which would allow slower and safer "ram" speeds but provide maximum power (from engine and stored energy in flywheels) And we could always throttle down even more if we are in easy stuff. My 2 cents anyway.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## Dozer Man

Jester3775 said:


> Thought on smaller pulley though. If we in essence slow down the flywheels we are actually (IMHO) storing less energy there. I think that maybe that is not the right way to go, even though it would allow us to run engine at higher speed and gain power there. My thinking wants the flywheels and engine at top speed (for max power) however I would like the gearing to change, which would allow slower and safer "ram" speeds but provide maximum power (from engine and stored energy in flywheels) And we could always throttle down even more if we are in easy stuff. My 2 cents anyway.



The number I keep thinking is 1.75" for a drive pulley. The way I figured it, that would make 300rpm at the flywheels with around 3000 engine rpm. That still gives the option to speed it up or slow it down from there. I still need to figure ram speeds for the competition, for comparison, before I make a definate decision on the pulley size. I just got some new info on the SS gearing but haven't had time to put the numbers to it yet. But I think we will all be surprised at the SS ram speed. I think its slower than what I initially thought. I hope to work on it later tonight and show my figures soon.

:hmm3grin2orange:Isn't it great to learn something new everyday!!!:hmm3grin2orange::help:


----------



## Dozer Man

Dozer Man said:


> *And I also would like to ask all SuperSplit and DR Rapidfire owners..... *
> _Does your engagement handle ever "kick-out of gear" when it can't split a round (for whatever reason)??? Or does it "stall the ram" until you disengage the engagement handle manually??? _




Just renewing this portion of a thread to get it out there for comparison reasons....thanks guys!!!


----------



## nysparkie

*DR Engagement handle*



Dozer Man said:


> Just renewing this portion of a thread to get it out there for comparison reasons....thanks guys!!!



Dozer: It has done both on my machine. The handle kick back the first time it happened scared poop right out of me. I though the whole kabash had come apart or something. I figured I had not engaged the rack hard enough and when it hit a knot it just forced the handle up out of my hand violently. I now make sure with each engagement I keep a fair amount of pressure on the handle. When that is done and the splitting ram is stopped by knots, whatever, then the clutch takes over and everything just sounds like it powers down. The engine is still running but is under "Strain". I disengage the ram by pulling up on the engagement handle and if the ram retracts, good and I hit the stump again. If it jams a second time, I disengage again and try turning the stump to hit it somewhere else even doing a 180' turn. A few times when the ram is on the power stroke it will jam a knot on the splitting wedge and it I can't get the ram to retract by hand engagement handle. I have to turn the machine off and hit the stump with another stump or a small sledge to free it off the wedge, then start up and go again. Those are fewer and fewer as I learn to look at a stump and see the best way to attack it. It is all auto now and takes only a glance. I've done over 30 cords and had 20 cord more of logs delivered. Any Kinetic Splitter, now that I have and understand them, is soooooooo much better than hydraulics. Instead of weeks it takes days. Instead of Days - Hours. Instead of Hours.....you can time it in minutes.
Bless ya Buddy. I'm reading but only jumpin in to answer. I still pray for the best outcome for ya.


----------



## philwillmt

nysparkie said:


> Dozer: It has done both on my machine. The handle kick back the first time it happened scared poop right out of me. I though the whole kabash had come apart or something. I figured I had not engaged the rack hard enough and when it hit a knot it just forced the handle up out of my hand violently. I now make sure with each engagement I keep a fair amount of pressure on the handle. When that is done and the splitting ram is stopped by knots, whatever, then the clutch takes over and everything just sounds like it powers down. The engine is still running but is under "Strain". I disengage the ram by pulling up on the engagement handle and if the ram retracts, good and I hit the stump again. If it jams a second time, I disengage again and try turning the stump to hit it somewhere else even doing a 180' turn. A few times when the ram is on the power stroke it will jam a knot on the splitting wedge and it I can't get the ram to retract by hand engagement handle. I have to turn the machine off and hit the stump with another stump or a small sledge to free it off the wedge, then start up and go again. Those are fewer and fewer as I learn to look at a stump and see the best way to attack it. It is all auto now and takes only a glance. I've done over 30 cords and had 20 cord more of logs delivered. Any Kinetic Splitter, now that I have and understand them, is soooooooo much better than hydraulics. Instead of weeks it takes days. Instead of Days - Hours. Instead of Hours.....you can time it in minutes.
> Bless ya Buddy. I'm reading but only jumpin in to answer. I still pray for the best outcome for ya.



Nysparkie,

Does your DR have an adjustable stop for the rack engagement mechanism? Also, out of 30 cords, how many times would you estimate that your ram has automatically disengaged? There is certainly a learning curve associated with these kinetic splitters...I agree that the more you learn to read the wood, the better the splitter works. And that goes for any splitter...especially the ole trusty splitting maul! Thanks for the information...looking forward to hear what other DR and Super Split owners have to say about their experiences with this issue.


----------



## nysparkie

philwillmt said:


> Nysparkie,
> 
> Does your DR have an adjustable stop for the rack engagement mechanism? Also, out of 30 cords, how many times would you estimate that your ram has automatically disengaged? There is certainly a learning curve associated with these kinetic splitters...I agree that the more you learn to read the wood, the better the splitter works. And that goes for any splitter...especially the ole trusty splitting maul! Thanks for the information...looking forward to hear what other DR and Super Split owners have to say about their experiences with this issue.



Well if you mean where the clutch does it job and I manually retract the ram....couple of dozen I would have to say.
If you mean that violent ripping of the engagement lever out of my hand.....just a few when I first started using. Can't remember when this last happened.
There is no adjustable stop for the rack...It appears to run its course through the engagement teeth on the rack and by that time you have split your piece and released the downward pressure on the engagement handle and the springs are retracting the ram. It looks like it was engineered to stop right at the Splitting wedge. When I service I can pull the ram right up to the wedge. Will it go farther? Can't tell cause the wedge is there.
On their demo video it looks like the ram traverses through all the teeth on the rack, no more teeth, no more further forward travel. Can't go any farther for there are no more teeth to engage. Take a look....
http://www.drpower.com/standardcontent.aspx?page=rapidfire_splitter_gallery
Page 25 of Owners Manual - Exploded view...Nothing is labeled as a Stop or limiter.
Parts List – DRIVE ASSEMBLY
NOTE: Part numbers listed are available through DR Power Equipment.
Ref# Part# Description
1 11239 Washer, Flat, 3/8", USS
2 15043 Bolt, HHCS, 3/8-16 X 1-1/4", GR5
3 11075 Nut, Nylon Lock, 3/8-16
4 29452 Cradle, Spring, Carriage
5 11238 Washer, Flat, 1/4"
6 11243 Washer, Lock, Split, 5/16"
7 11149 Bolt, HHCS, 1/4-20 X 1.00", GR5, ZP
8 11070 Nut, Finish, 1/4-20, ZP
9 18081 Washer, Lock, 3/8"
10 11158 Bolt, HCS, 5/16-18 X 1.00" L
11 11241 Washer, Flat, 5/16"
12 16484 Bolt, HCS, 3/8-16 X 2-1/2", ZP
13 11073 Nut, Nylon Lock, 1/4-20
14 29498 Cylinder, Bumper
15 29472 Bearing, Yoke, Roller, .750" Dia
16 29451 Spring, Carriage
17 29468 Spring, Compression, Carriage
18 29473 Bearing, Yoke, Roller, 1.125" Dia
19 29443 Rail, Slide, Carriage
20 29445 Wear, Plate, Carriage
21 29444 Top, Slide, Carriage
22 29447 Ram, Carriage
23 29474 Belt, 4l730
24 13443 Bolt, 5/16-18 X 1.5"
Ref# Part# Description
25 29494 Key, Square, 3/8" X 3/8" X 1.5" L
26 29493 Screw, Set, Cup Point, 3/8 X 16 X .5" L
27 29492 Bolt, HCS, 1/2-20 X 3", ZP
28 11242 Washer, Lock, 0.5"
29 29456 Insert Bearing W/ Snap Ring
30 29454 Gear, Pinion
31 29461 Flywheel, Spoke Design
32 29459 Gear, Rack
33 11076 Nut, Nylon Lock, 5/16-18
34 29455 Housing, Bearing
35 16514 Washer, .385" ID, 1.39 OD, .15 T
36 19335 Bolt, HCS, 5/16-24 X 1.5", GR2, ZP
37 22912 Bolt, HCS, 3/8-16 X 4 1/2", GR5
38 22885 Bolt, HCS, 5/16-18x1 1/2", GR8, ZP
39 29462 Clutch, Centrifugal Dual Sheave
40 29458 Plate, Engine Mount
41 27574 Engine, Subaru, 6hp, 50state, E/S,
w/label
29541 Engine, Subaru, 6hp, 50state, M/S,
w/label
42 18887 Label, Hot Surface, R/C
43 13758 Label, Warning Check Oil
44 27575 Key, Square, 3/16" X 3/16" - 1/2"
45 29487 Boot, Terminal, Red
46 27594 Key, Start Switch, 13.74, Sub

I'm not good enough to get the exploded view into a jpg format


----------



## philwillmt

nysparkie said:


> There is no adjustable stop for the rack...It appears to run its course through the engagement teeth on the rack and by that time you have split your piece and released the downward pressure on the engagement handle and the springs are retracting the ram. It looks like it was engineered to stop right at the Splitting wedge.
> 
> Take a look....DR® Power Equipment - RapidFire Splitter Gallery



Nysparkie,

You must have misunderstood my question, which was "does your DR have an adjustable stop for the rack _engagement mechanism_?" Thanks to the good videos you posted, specifically the one titled "Under The Hood," it is clear that your DR does in fact have an adjustable stop for the rack engagement mechanism. This particular video does a great job of demonstrating what I have been saying all along...the engagement roller MUST travel past vertical to "lock" the rack down against the pinion gear. In fact, the video demonstrates that the roller on the DR travels a considerable amount past vertical, and there is NO WAY it can become "unlocked" unless it is manually disengaged, or the rack reaches the end of its travel, allowing the roller to return to the "home" position. Again, this video does a great job of demonstrating what I have repeatedly been trying to say. If a picture is worth a thousand words, then what's a video worth? I REST MY CASE...SOMEONE FROM SPEECO NEEDS TO WATCH THIS VIDEO AND LEARN SOMETHING!!! :mad2: By the way, I did some splitting with my SpeedPro today, and at only 2700 rpm (1000 rpm BELOW what they recommend running it at) the rack violently auto disengaged a number of times. In fact, the pin that connects the handle to the push rod got bent considerably. I had to remove it and straighten it with a hammer. This was no surprise, as I keep expecting something to flat out break when this happens! Also, three of the four roller bearings that hold the push plate down against the I-beam loosened up quite a bit. Tightened all four. In my assessment, there is way too much slop in the rack engagement mechanism. This auto disengagement bull crap SHOULD NOT HAPPEN...PERIOD!!! The more I fool with this splitter, the more I come to the realization that the quality is just not there!

Guinea Pig...or something like that.


----------



## ziggo_2

I like how DR steals the design and then markets it like its their idea and they are genius for inventing it. Not only that but they also try to say that its a new idea....

Also I am shocked at how bad speeco screwed this up...its not like they are new to wood splitting. Not only did they screw up the splitter but now they are ruining their reputation for great customer sevice. Hasnt it been long enough? I cant recall exact dates when issues arose but it seems like it been along time,before thanksgiving i know.

I Know what you mean about going over center, Something has to keep the ram engaged or it will pop out. If any body could do a slowmotion video of it, that would probly be a good help.

The gearing must be off, if they advertise it at 2.5 second cycle time at 3800rpm and your getting 1.5 second cycle time at 2500 rpm.

I think if you guys really want to keep this splitter, I think your better off fixing it yourself at this point. Seems like you guys know more about these kinetic splitters than Speeco.


----------



## Cmccul8146

*Engagement Mechanism*

philwillmt, Look at the "Under the Hood" video again,very colsely. Even though the "roller bracket" goes past vertical, the bolt holes for the roller & pivot rod are not on the same centerline. The roller is offset slightly left of the pivot point, and is actually lined up vertically with the pivot rod when fully engaged. I still maintain that the forward movement of the rack & rack lift spring put all the pressure needed on the roller to keep it engaged. Not trying to start an argument with you on this issue, but I've been a machinist & toolmaker for over 40 years, & have designed & built many different specialty machines over that period and fully understand the mechanics of these splitters. Just wish that I'd been the guy that originally invented & patented these great timesavers. Also, building mine from scratch, I am passing along information I learned in the process that SpeedPro owners apparently are not getting from Speeco. I have my opinion & you have yours, and if we disagree, that's fine too. Having never seen a SpeedPro other than in pictures, there may be other differences that I don't know about, but my homebuilt is now 2 years old & have NEVER had any "violent disengagement" or bent parts issues with it. I'd be mainly concerned with slowing the flywheel speed to no more than 300 rpm as a starting point.


----------



## philwillmt

Cmccul8146 said:


> philwillmt, Look at the "Under the Hood" video again,very colsely. Even though the "roller bracket" goes past vertical, the bolt holes for the roller & pivot rod are not on the same centerline. The roller is offset slightly left of the pivot point, and is actually lined up vertically with the pivot rod when fully engaged. I still maintain that the forward movement of the rack & rack lift spring put all the pressure needed on the roller to keep it engaged. Not trying to start an argument with you on this issue, but I've been a machinist & toolmaker for over 40 years, & have designed & built many different specialty machines over that period and fully understand the mechanics of these splitters. Just wish that I'd been the guy that originally invented & patented these great timesavers. Also, building mine from scratch, I am passing along information I learned in the process that SpeedPro owners apparently are not getting from Speeco. I have my opinion & you have yours, and if we disagree, that's fine too. Having never seen a SpeedPro other than in pictures, there may be other differences that I don't know about, but my homebuilt is now 2 years old & have NEVER had any "violent disengagement" or bent parts issues with it. I'd be mainly concerned with slowing the flywheel speed to no more than 300 rpm as a starting point.



Cmccul8146,

You are correct...the roller bracket pivot bolt is offset from the roller and hinge bolts, so I was a bit deceived about how far the roller was traveling. However, try pausing the video when the rack is fully engaged with the pinion gear, then put a square (i.e. the corner of a piece of paper worked for me) along the top of the rack and see where the roller bolt lines up with the pivot bolt. Looks to be slightly past vertical to me, and the amount is more in line with what I would have expected (i.e. ever so slightly past vertical.) And that's all it would take to "lock" the rack down against the pinion gear. I agree that it's not as far past vertical as it originally appeared to be, but I still say it broke over center. If the friction from the roller rolling along the advancing rack were all that was keeping the bracket in place, then it seems to me it would disengage every time the rack came to a stop prior to reaching the end of its travel..._unless_ the roller were slightly past vertical. An easy way to verify this on your splitter would be just like I suggested doing with the video...put a square on the rack and see how the center of the roller lines up with the center of the pivot bolt. Then again, maybe you have already done that...I don't know. I would try that on my SpeedPro, but you can barely see the engagement mechanism...much less access it. It is sandwiched between two pieces of plate steel. Thanks for pointing out the alignment issue...good eyes!


----------



## Dozer Man

*Auto dis-engage???*



Cmccul8146 said:


> Having never seen a SpeedPro other than in pictures, there may be other differences that I don't know about, but my homebuilt is now 2 years old & have NEVER had any "violent disengagement" or bent parts issues with it. I'd be mainly concerned with slowing the flywheel speed to no more than 300 rpm as a starting point.




Hey Cmccul,

You state that you have never had a "violent disengagement". What about a simple misfire, or as we've been calling it, "auto dis-engage". Has your machine ever automatically disengaged? Usually this happens just as the ram hits the log. It just smacks the log lightly then retracts. I had seen mine do the simple misfire a few times, but this doesn't compare whatsoever to the "violent disengagement". Just curious and want to make sure we cover all the bases. 
Thanks for your help too. We all appreciate it.


----------



## BSD

I finally got my rack head back together after the bolts fell out of the brass wear plate. I had retapped 12-24 threads, which upon later discover was stupid, can't find those bolts ANYWHERE, my father actually had some brass 12-24's but they were round-tops instead of the inverted ones, so i ended up just welding the plate in there, hopefully that keeps it in there. LOL

when I was putting it back together I took a putty knife and put a bunch of axle grease on the rack. i also greased the bearings on the flywheel bearings while i was in there, one took a few pumps and the other took a ton of grease. I also took the advice of members on the board here and coated the clutch with WD40. I wanted something that could come off with brake cleaner if it didn't work out so well. So I fired it up and got the flywheels spinning and then sprayed the clutch, I really coated the snot out of it. I checked my engagement rod with the rack out and it seems to have good travel and stop at the right place. I buttoned up the covers and took it down back to split some wood. I fired up and got the flywheels going, with a bit more effort on the clutches part, I settled the RPM's around 2550rpm and started splitting. Immediately I noticed it seems to engage a lot smoother with the grease on the rack, I then went and found the nastiest piece of wood I could find in the pile and split it. The clutch slipped perfectly, probably like it was intended to do. I split about 1/3 of a cord (face cord you other guys). and only had one violent disengagement, I think it was only because the piece jumped out of the cradle as it made contact with the splitter wedge. Overall I'm happy and feel confident to keep splitting with it. I've got 30 hours on the machine now, I'll give it a good inspection @ 50hrs when we do the second oil change


----------



## CUCV

As others have commented the SS does NOT disengage when stalling on a hard piece of wood, the ram stays against the wood and the belts and clutch slip until the operator disengages the lever. No broken ram, pinion, or I-beam and I'm well over 1000 cord (128 cu ft) on this machine. Note I did bend a rack on a very early model SS (still worked fine when I replaced it) and the replacement rack I got was totally different.

I know the violent phenomenon you are talking about, it happens on the SS when you have a super long piece of wood that just fits between the ram and wedge and you try to engage the ram.

If the Speedpro is disengaging the mechanism may be just at the hairy edge of going over toggle or there is to much backlash between the rack and pinion in the engaged position.

From Dozers post with all the measurements it looks like it would be worth putting the clutch setup from the SS on the Speedpro, would slow down the pinion and give more torque.

Check out the extra flywheel I put on my my supersplit for extra inertia.

Modified Supersplitter log splitter - YouTube



philwillmt said:


> CUCV,
> 
> I will have to do some measuring to get that information. Question...does the ram on your Super Split automatically disengage after striking a hard piece of wood? If so, does it happen more often at higher speeds? And, if so, are any parts breaking or bending when it happens? Are there any safety issues or concerns associated with the auto disengagement, if and when this happens? I'm told ALL inertia splitters auto disengage, regardless of manufacturer. I would like to learn more about this from a Super Split owner's perspective. Thanks!


----------



## CampHamp

CUCV said:


> Modified Supersplitter log splitter - YouTube



It's great to meet the owner of that contraption. It seems like you know how to use it, too. I wonder if you saw an improvement and if there were any side-effects...


----------



## Dozer Man

*You are famous*

CUCV, for a minute there I was excited to have a celebrity on our thread!! I've watched that video several times on youtube. I also have to ask how your mods worked. Thanks for your input CUCV.


----------



## philwillmt

CUCV said:


> As others have commented the SS does NOT disengage when stalling on a hard piece of wood, the ram stays against the wood and the belts and clutch slip until the operator disengages the lever. No broken ram, pinion, or I-beam and I'm well over 1000 cord (128 cu ft) on this machine. Note I did bend a rack on a very early model SS (still worked fine when I replaced it) and the replacement rack I got was totally different.
> 
> I know the violent phenomenon you are talking about, it happens on the SS when you have a super long piece of wood that just fits between the ram and wedge and you try to engage the ram.
> 
> If the Speedpro is disengaging the mechanism may be just at the hairy edge of going over toggle or there is to much backlash between the rack and pinion in the engaged position.
> 
> From Dozers post with all the measurements it looks like it would be worth putting the clutch setup from the SS on the Speedpro, would slow down the pinion and give more torque.
> 
> Check out the extra flywheel I put on my my supersplit for extra inertia.
> 
> Modified Supersplitter log splitter - YouTube



CUCV,

I've watched that video a few times...very smooth and impressive machine! Looks like you've split a cord or two before! Is that a debris cleaner in front of the lower roller bearing that holds the push ram down against the I-beam? If so, that's a good idea! I wish the SpeedPro had four roller bearings instead of two...seems that would be much more stable and smoother. So why do you think the SS does the auto dis-engagement on a long piece of wood? Is it because the ram has not had time to gain full inertia before encountering a load? Interesting. Thanks for sharing, and again, that's a smooth machine you have there! The operator is pretty smooth too!


----------



## CUCV

I feel most of the mods have improved and already great machine. I really like my production table, it sits level with the top of the I-beam which lends itself to sliding a piece back to be resplit. The lower motor mount is sick, I flipped the whole splitter over on the landing withing hours of owning the unit because they are so top heavy, hence moving the motor lower. I get better belt wrap on the motor pulley thus better push thru power on stringy wood like elm an willow. The actuation leaver is great ergonimically. The cam followers inside the I-beam are smooth and I rarely get a sliver of wood jammed under the ram as I did frequently with the stock "J" setup. (The HD is supposed to be better). The scrapers infront of the cam followers work will (they need to be replaced now as they are warn and beat up.) The extra flywheel gives more inertia to the system with no side effects to date.

Basically the only side effects are that the pivot pin I used on the engagement mechanism is to small and I have probobly sheared 6, The bolt I used on the tensioner for the 3rd flywheel belt is to small and have replaced it a couple times. The unit is a work in progress but also needs to make production so all to often I just replace to bolts instead of upgrading.

I have been wanting to get a Speedpro to try some other mods on a machine that can sit while I tinker without dropping the coin for another SS, hope they are up forsale again soon. 


I just started fabing up a 4 way wedge for the SS. What I am fabing up now is my #2 idea, I will try my #1 idea on a Speedpro because I will be cutting the I-beam and wedge off for that design.





CampHamp said:


> It's great to meet the owner of that contraption. It seems like you know how to use it, too. I wonder if you saw an improvement and if there were any side-effects...


----------



## CUCV

LOL, I can't believe how many hits I have on that raw footage video I put up to show a few friends!



Dozer Man said:


> CUCV, for a minute there I was excited to have a celebrity on our thread!! I've watched that video several times on youtube. I also have to ask how your mods worked. Thanks for your input CUCV.


----------



## CUCV

Thanks philwillmt!

It does it on the super long wood because the rack is not fully engage on the pinion, the engagement mechanism is not over toggle and its trying to transmit supstantial force.



philwillmt said:


> CUCV,
> 
> I've watched that video a few times...very smooth and impressive machine! Looks like you've split a cord or two before! Is that a debris cleaner in front of the lower roller bearing that holds the push ram down against the I-beam? If so, that's a good idea! I wish the SpeedPro had four roller bearings instead of two...seems that would be much more stable and smoother. So why do you think the SS does the auto dis-engagement on a long piece of wood? Is it because the ram has not had time to gain full inertia before encountering a load? Interesting. Thanks for sharing, and again, that's a smooth machine you have there! The operator is pretty smooth too!


----------



## philwillmt

CUCV said:


> Thanks philwillmt!
> 
> It does it on the super long wood because the rack is not fully engage on the pinion, the engagement mechanism is not over toggle and its trying to transmit supstantial force.



CUCV,

That stands to reason. Let us know if and when you start modifying a SpeedPro!


----------



## ksfastman

*Speeco Video*

I see Speeco has the vid up and running on their site. Called the local TSC's and they don't even know what a Speedpro splitter is. Lol


----------



## philwillmt

ksfastman said:


> I see Speeco has the vid up and running on their site. Called the local TSC's and they don't even know what a Speedpro splitter is. Lol



Ksfastman,

Where did you see a SpeedPro video on the SpeeCo website? I did not find it.

Thanks!


----------



## Dozer Man

philwillmt said:


> Ksfastman,
> 
> Where did you see a SpeedPro video on the SpeeCo website? I did not find it.
> 
> Thanks!



For some reason if I type "speeco speedpro" into my search engine, it brings up a different web-page than if I type in just "speeco". Sounds strange but it works. (google search) Still goes to speeco, but to the speedpro section (which I can't get to from the normal speeco page)


----------



## philwillmt

Dozer Man said:


> For some reason if I type "speeco speedpro" into my search engine, it brings up a different web-page than if I type in just "speeco". Sounds strange but it works. (google search) Still goes to speeco, but to the speedpro section (which I can't get to from the normal speeco page)



Dozer Man,

Got it...thanks! I was just curious if it was a new video or something. I used mine quite a bit this weekend...hopefully I have enough wood to get me through the winter now!


----------



## BSD

we put a little less than 5 hours the machine today with 2 guys, cutting and splitting, made a pretty good dent in our stock pile, only to have another 3 cords dropped off in 12' lengths. guess we get to do it all over again tomorrow. View attachment 215217


----------



## Dozer Man

*Nice Pile*



BSD said:


> we put a little less than 5 hours the machine today with 2 guys, cutting and splitting, made a pretty good dent in our stock pile, only to have another 3 cords dropped off in 12' lengths. guess we get to do it all over again tomorrow.



Nice pile-o-wood!! Did you use a conveyor or did y'all throw all that into that nice neat pile?


----------



## BSD

Dozer Man said:


> Nice pile-o-wood!! Did you use a conveyor or did y'all throw all that into that nice neat pile?



we just let it fly off the machine, and we keep pulling the machine back, I then piled it up with the little tractor. the splittler will make a row about 4' high and 6' wide before it starts jamming up and you need to move it back. we really need a conveyor, badly. i'm supposed to get my big tractor back from the shop tomorrow, we'll load it in the dump and move it over to the big pile of wood for seasoning.


----------



## Dozer Man

*Nice*



BSD said:


> we just let it fly off the machine, and we keep pulling the machine back, I then piled it up with the little tractor. the splittler will make a row about 4' high and 6' wide before it starts jamming up and you need to move it back. we really need a conveyor, badly. i'm supposed to get my big tractor back from the shop tomorrow, we'll load it in the dump and move it over to the big pile of wood for seasoning.



Ya I know the need for a conveyor. I've been watching CL for the last few months, looking for a good old corn elevator/conveyor(dual steel chain w/steel paddles). Most are either electric or pto driven but either would be easy to convert to a small gas engine. Found nothing but overpriced junk so far. I'll find one eventually.


----------



## BSD

looks like we'll be greasing the rack every 5 hours or so. yesterday the guys split for about a half hour after finishing their other jobs for the day and it was noticeably harder to engage, not a crisp, clean engagement like it was right after I greased it. now I just need to see about the best way to get grease up in there. it was really easy to do while I had the rack out and upside down.


----------



## Dozer Man

*Greased rack*



BSD said:


> looks like we'll be greasing the rack every 5 hours or so. yesterday the guys split for about a half hour after finishing their other jobs for the day and it was noticeably harder to engage, not a crisp, clean engagement like it was right after I greased it. now I just need to see about the best way to get grease up in there. it was really easy to do while I had the rack out and upside down.



Hey BSD, approx how many cord will you and your guys split in 5 hr.?? I've mostly run production by myself and was curious if I need to hire a flunky or two. And for greasing the rack, can you pull the rack out and just use a lincoln cordless grease gun ? Or will I have to pull the side cover off too? Just curious, I'll grease it up today as soon as we finish putting waterpump in my old mans duramax (major PITA).


----------



## philwillmt

BSD said:


> looks like we'll be greasing the rack every 5 hours or so. yesterday the guys split for about a half hour after finishing their other jobs for the day and it was noticeably harder to engage, not a crisp, clean engagement like it was right after I greased it. now I just need to see about the best way to get grease up in there. it was really easy to do while I had the rack out and upside down.



BSD,
I simply pull the rack out by the push plate almost to full extension, then push the handle down to engage the rack with the pinion, and in turn hold the rack in the extended position. Then, I get my grease gun, squirt some grease on my finger, then lightly smear it up and down the teeth on the rack as evenly as I can, and as much as I can easliy reach (which is most of it). I figure the grease will quickly get to all the teeth on the rack and pinion after a few cycles, as the pinion gear will eventually carry grease to each tooth on the rack that I may have missed. I also smear a very light amount of grease on the sides of the rack, as they rub on the half-round guides (under the hood) as the rack cycles forward. 

Food for thought...


----------



## BSD

Dozer Man said:


> Hey BSD, approx how many cord will you and your guys split in 5 hr.?? I've mostly run production by myself and was curious if I need to hire a flunky or two. And for greasing the rack, can you pull the rack out and just use a lincoln cordless grease gun ? Or will I have to pull the side cover off too? Just curious, I'll grease it up today as soon as we finish putting waterpump in my old mans duramax (major PITA).



we've never really made a solid push on the wood with everyone at the same time. it's usually me working by myself or two guys down there cutting and splitting. like that pile I posted the other day, less than 5 hours were put on the machine, one guy was there the whole time,the other for about two hours, then i split for an hour or so at the end of the day with one of them. I will say this though, if you want maximum production from log length to splits you need 3 guys. one guy cutting and two guys working the splitter. i believe we could do about 1 cord per hour in that fashion without killing anyone in the process. we've got about 20 cords run through this splitter now with about 36 hours on the machine. about 3/4 of the pile has been split with only one person working the splitter, the rest we've had two guys working tandem on it. 


phil, i greased the rack with a putty knife when it was out of the splitter and i think i'll try it again now that its back in. i wasn't sure if the cradle would be in the way of the rack with it extended. i looked this morning after i posted and it seems like i could probably get a good amount of grease up there again with the putty knife


----------



## Dozer Man

*Update...er...corredtion*

Correction on the pinion shaft size...looks more like 1.5" O.D. I didn't realize there were collars between the bearings and flywheels, oops. That puts it right with the SS pinion shaft size. 

I greased everything up today, those main bearings were pretty dry too. As BSD suggested, I checked the brass wear plate on the ram for looseness. I used a screwdriver at first just to see if it would move, and it did. Very little, but enough for me to pull the ram and check. Sure enough, quarter to half round on each screw to tighten them up. I just tightened them for now. But before I use it again I will pull the little screws out and put some formagasket on the threads. That should hold them while still letting me get them out years down the road...well hopefully. Btw...thanks for the heads up BSD, sorry you learned it the hard way. And I have to agree, greasing the rack does make things smoother.

If any of the DR guys are still reading this thread, I would really appreciate it if one of you could give me the diameter of your drive pulley that is attached to your clutch. Just a simple cross measurement of the drive pulley, nothing fancy, thanks.

Any of you Speedpro guys heard anything new lately??


ps...can't edit title...that sucks


----------



## TFPace

Dozer Man said:


> C
> 
> Any of you Speedpro guys heard anything new lately??



I have not heard anything. I would guess most people registered their machine online. With that said the least Speeco could do is email an update to the owners of this machine.


----------



## stever

I got this response a couple of days ago.

Shaun Stinnett [email protected]

Jan 5 (3 days ago)

to me
Steve,

These are sold exclusively through Tractor Supply( Tractor Supply Company - Home). They should be available again sometime in February.

Regards,

Shaun Stinnett
Customer Service Representative 
303-279-5544 (Main)
800-525-8322 (x1147)
303-278-3432 (Fax)
[email protected]
SpeeCo Inc. Farming accessories and tools, log splitters, post hole diggers and custom manufacturing.


----------



## philwillmt

stever said:


> I got this response a couple of days ago.
> 
> Shaun Stinnett [email protected]
> 
> Jan 5 (3 days ago)
> 
> to me
> Steve,
> 
> These are sold exclusively through Tractor Supply( Tractor Supply Company - Home). They should be available again sometime in February.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Shaun Stinnett
> Customer Service Representative
> 303-279-5544 (Main)
> 800-525-8322 (x1147)
> 303-278-3432 (Fax)
> [email protected]
> SpeeCo Inc. Farming accessories and tools, log splitters, post hole diggers and custom manufacturing.



SpeeCo Engineering told me "we have not completed our validation tests yet." However, according to what they told me the previous time I talked to them, we should have heard something from them by now. Who knows???


----------



## schaaed1

Dozer Man said:


> Correction on the pinion shaft size...looks more like 1.5" O.D. I didn't realize there were collars between the bearings and flywheels, oops. That puts it right with the SS pinion shaft size.
> 
> If any of the DR guys are still reading this thread, I would really appreciate it if one of you could give me the diameter of your drive pulley that is attached to your clutch. Just a simple cross measurement of the drive pulley, nothing fancy, thanks.


From the 'horse's mouth' in your other thead.


DR POWER said:


> Dozer,
> 
> Here are the dimensions you are looking for:
> 
> Clutch is 1.75"
> flywheel is 18.25"
> 
> DR Power



Save me from digging bagk through ... what were your clutch and wheel dimensions?


----------



## Dozer Man

*Thank you*



schaaed1 said:


> From the 'horse's mouth' in your other thead.
> 
> 
> Save me from digging bagk through ... what were your clutch and wheel dimensions?




Have to say... I'm impressed. Not only with the quick response, but also with whom it's from !!!

Thanks

speedpro dimensions; 
flywheels-18.625" O.D. (17.375" @ inside belt groove...approx...belts runs at bottom of grooves)
clutch pulley-3.625"O.D. (3" @ inside belt groove...approx...belts do not run close to bottom of grooves)
pinion shaft-1.5" O.D. (approx. with teeth cut in from there) 

These measurements are close, but not exact by any means. I used a tape measure and eye ball, not calipers or other precise tools.

Best guess @ flywheel speeds with motor @ 3850rpm (with info recieved from this and other threads)...
Speedpro...665 rpm (probly most accurate since I used my own machine for dimensions)
DR...370 rpm (not sure how deep belts run in grooves)
SS "J" model...220 rpm (dimensions given from a friend were used to calculate)


----------



## CUCV

Hey Dozer Man, Any chance in your paperwork you have a parts list breakdown. I'm interested in getting a Speedpro clutch part number and so I can get one for my Supersplit. That way I could run the engine half speed. I'm even thinking of using a diesel engine so I would have great torque and fuel consumption at half speed. I really not all that concerned about slowing down the forward motion to gain torque. I feel the most important time savings is on the lightning fast return stroke.




Dozer Man said:


> Have to say... I'm impressed. Not only with the quick response, but also with whom it's from !!!
> 
> Thanks
> 
> speedpro dimensions;
> flywheels-18.625" O.D. (17.375" @ inside belt groove...approx...belts runs at bottom of grooves)
> clutch pulley-3.625"O.D. (3" @ inside belt groove...approx...belts do not run close to bottom of grooves)
> pinion shaft-1.5" O.D. (approx. with teeth cut in from there)
> 
> These measurements are close, but not exact by any means. I used a tape measure and eye ball, not calipers or other precise tools.
> 
> Best guess @ flywheel speeds with motor @ 3850rpm (with info recieved from this and other threads)...
> Speedpro...665 rpm (probly most accurate since I used my own machine for dimensions)
> DR...370 rpm (not sure how deep belts run in grooves)
> SS "J" model...220 rpm (dimensions given from a friend were used to calculate)


----------



## Dozer Man

CUCV said:


> Hey Dozer Man, Any chance in your paperwork you have a parts list breakdown. I'm interested in getting a Speedpro clutch part number and so I can get one for my Supersplit. That way I could run the engine half speed. I'm even thinking of using a diesel engine so I would have great torque and fuel consumption at half speed. I really not all that concerned about slowing down the forward motion to gain torque. I feel the most important time savings is on the lightning fast return stroke.



Sorry, I will have to do some research on the part # for the clutch. I'll dig out the manuals tomorrow at the shop. I'm sure speeco would probly sell it to you though. 

I definately don't mind_ not_ running at full throttle. Actually, that's why I'm being picky about the pulley size. I really don't want to _have_ to run at full throttle. If I could get a pulley in the 2" range (measured from inside of belts), that would give a flywheel speed around 350rpm with 3000rpm engine speed. That would give options to speed it up, or to slow it down. The DR clutch might be the best option though. With the speedpro running a little smaller flywheel, that actually speeds up the flywheel speed. So, in essence, the speedpro would still have a faster flywheel speed at any engine setting.
As it is now, I can't slow the engine down any slower and keep the clutch engaged (engine rpm 2600 = flywheel rpm 470). 
Hopefully they will get the parts out and get these things up for sale again. Then you can go test drive one. I don't think you would be disappointed in the return speed of the ram if fast return is what you are looking for. The ram always bounces off the stops at least once after each stroke. A test drive might also make you carefull of how much you increase your flywheel speed. I was actually surprised at how slow the SS was flywheel speed is. But the numbers don't lie, 1" pulley with an 18.25" flywheel at 3850rpm actually only charts out to a little over 210 flywheel rpm. I wouldn't have believed the pulley size if I hadn't seen the picture with a tape measure beside the pulley (measuring where the _inside_ of the belt runs). I won't argue with Paul @ SS though!! I'll leave that to the man wanting to put a diesel on his SS!!! I want to see that video!!

After thought...wonder what rpm a small diesel engine needs to run? Most diesels don't wind up near what there gas counterparts do. I don't know about the little diesel engines. Hate to see the there price tag!


----------



## ksfastman

KiwiBro said:


>



Been looking at the engagement handle mods you guys have done, could you use the stock pivot anchor and make a handle that you pull up at the front that pushes the engagement rod down?


----------



## CUCV

I talked with Paul at SS yesterday and he said thats exactly whats happening, no shortage of orders SS!



Dalmatian90 said:


> Holy Cow!
> 
> Website is giving me a price of $1699 for the Speedco.
> 
> Whose been using this forum for market research?
> 
> I suspect this will all actually be good for SuperSplit -- between TSC & DR that exposes a lot more people to flywheel log splitters who've never heard of them before. Might lose a few sales from it, but a rising tide lifts all boats and I'd bet the original company will benefit if this style becomes more popular overall.


----------



## CUCV

Dozer Man have checked out my thread on new 4-way wedge for my SS? http://www.arboristsite.com/firewood-heating-wood-burning-equipment/189977.htm

On the diesel I'm considering best fuel economy is around 2750rpm and near max torque. I really don't care how fast the flywheel spins, its about the pinion speed. My extra flywheel spins at 1000rpm if I remember correctly. $600 engine.

If you happen to have the clutch number handy cool, if not I'll just call Speeco or google it.




Dozer Man said:


> Sorry, I will have to do some research on the part # for the clutch. I'll dig out the manuals tomorrow at the shop. I'm sure speeco would probly sell it to you though.
> 
> I definately don't mind_ not_ running at full throttle. Actually, that's why I'm being picky about the pulley size. I really don't want to _have_ to run at full throttle. If I could get a pulley in the 2" range (measured from inside of belts), that would give a flywheel speed around 350rpm with 3000rpm engine speed. That would give options to speed it up, or to slow it down. The DR clutch might be the best option though. With the speedpro running a little smaller flywheel, that actually speeds up the flywheel speed. So, in essence, the speedpro would still have a faster flywheel speed at any engine setting.
> As it is now, I can't slow the engine down any slower and keep the clutch engaged (engine rpm 2600 = flywheel rpm 470).
> Hopefully they will get the parts out and get these things up for sale again. Then you can go test drive one. I don't think you would be disappointed in the return speed of the ram if fast return is what you are looking for. The ram always bounces off the stops at least once after each stroke. A test drive might also make you carefull of how much you increase your flywheel speed. I was actually surprised at how slow the SS was flywheel speed is. But the numbers don't lie, 1" pulley with an 18.25" flywheel at 3850rpm actually only charts out to a little over 210 flywheel rpm. I wouldn't have believed the pulley size if I hadn't seen the picture with a tape measure beside the pulley (measuring where the _inside_ of the belt runs). I won't argue with Paul @ SS though!! I'll leave that to the man wanting to put a diesel on his SS!!! I want to see that video!!
> 
> After thought...wonder what rpm a small diesel engine needs to run? Most diesels don't wind up near what there gas counterparts do. I don't know about the little diesel engines. Hate to see the there price tag!


----------



## Dozer Man

CUCV said:


> Dozer Man have checked out my thread on new 4-way wedge for my SS? http://www.arboristsite.com/firewood-heating-wood-burning-equipment/189977.htm
> 
> On the diesel I'm considering best fuel economy is around 2750rpm and near max torque. I really don't care how fast the flywheel spins, its about the pinion speed. My extra flywheel spins at 1000rpm if I remember correctly. $600 engine.
> 
> If you happen to have the clutch number handy cool, if not I'll just call Speeco or google it.



Hey CUCV

Four way looks productive, and very cool!!! I wonder if the speedpro H-beam is heavy enough to keep it from bending. I suppose someone could truss the under side of the beam(somehow) for extra support. (1/2" plate cut 2-3" tall, running vertical along the bottom of the H-beam?? First though anyways.)

While I was checking out your video, your ram speed caught my eye. After splitting with my spdpro on Sunday, your ram speed seemed slow (its not slow...spdpro is too fast). So, as bored as I am, I got my stopwatch out...LOL. Your total ram cycle on your SS was around 2.5 seconds (give or take obviously). Then I searched youtube for some speedpro vids. Found the one with the kid taking a video of his dad splitting w/speedpro (the kids naration is kinda funny). I assume he was running wide open, cuz I could hardly time the cycle, but got consistently around one second. That's for total cycle from engagement to complete return on both machines. 

Irony; While I looked up the clutch part number, I noticed that the spdpro manual said it had a cycle time of...get this...2.5 seconds. 

Here is the Speeco part # for the clutch (according to the owners manual): S40170500
Not sure how your pinion shaft turns without knowing how your mods work. But if it's running between (attached to) the flywheels like on the speedpro, DR, and SS stock, it's turning the same rpm as the flywheels.


----------



## philwillmt

Dozer Man said:


> Hey CUCV
> 
> Four way looks productive, and very cool!!! I wonder if the speedpro H-beam is heavy enough to keep it from bending. I suppose someone could truss the under side of the beam(somehow) for extra support. (1/2" plate cut 2-3" tall, running along the bottom of the H-beam?? First though anyways.)
> 
> While I was checking out your video, your ram speed caught my eye. After splitting with my spdpro on Sunday, your ram speed seemed slow (its not slow...spdpro is too fast). So, as bored as I am, I got my stopwatch out...LOL. Your total ram cycle on your SS was around 2.5 seconds (give or take obviously). Then I searched youtube for some speedpro vids. Found the one with the kid taking a video of his dad splitting w/speedpro (the kids naration is kinda funny). I assume he was running wide open, cuz I could hardly time the cycle, but got consistently around one second. That's for total cycle from engagement to complete return on both machines.
> 
> Irony; While I looked up the clutch part number, I noticed that the spdpro manual said it had a cycle time of...get this...2.5 seconds.
> 
> Here is the Speeco part # for the clutch (according to the owners manual): S40170500
> Not sure how your pinion shaft turns without knowing how your mods work. But if it's running between (attached to) the flywheels like on the speedpro, DR, and SS stock, it's turning the same rpm as the flywheels.



Dozer Man,

I have timed my SpeedPro a number of times at 2500rpm, and I get a consistent 1.3 to 1.4 second cycle time...WAY too fast for half-throttle in my opinion. I would hate to see what it is at full throttle (3850rpm), which is what SpeeCo recommends in the owner's manual! All of the Super Split and DR Rapid Fire videos that I have viewed are noticeably slower...and as a result appear to operate smoother. I just watched the Super Split with the 4-way wedge, and you can hear the engine bog down a bit on each cycle. That tells me the engagement mechanism and clutch are working properly. I'm not sure, but it actually seems to me the 4-way wedge on the Super Split was slowing the ram down a bit too much. It also seems there were an awful lot of very small pieces of wood, depending on the log size. That has always been a concern of mine with the 4-way wedges. That was the first time I saw one in action. I think the 4-way wedge would actually work better on the SpeeCo due to the excessive ram speed. If not, I bet it would work at full throttle, or parts would be flying...one of the two. Probably the latter of the two. I think the hard part would be trying to prevent the auto disengagement issue. I wouldn't want to try it!


----------



## CUCV

I still use the stock clutch.




Dozer Man said:


> Sorry, I will have to do some research on the part # for the clutch. I'll dig out the manuals tomorrow at the shop. I'm sure speeco would probly sell it to you though.
> 
> I definately don't mind_ not_ running at full throttle. Actually, that's why I'm being picky about the pulley size. I really don't want to _have_ to run at full throttle. If I could get a pulley in the 2" range (measured from inside of belts), that would give a flywheel speed around 350rpm with 3000rpm engine speed. That would give options to speed it up, or to slow it down. The DR clutch might be the best option though. With the speedpro running a little smaller flywheel, that actually speeds up the flywheel speed. So, in essence, the speedpro would still have a faster flywheel speed at any engine setting.
> As it is now, I can't slow the engine down any slower and keep the clutch engaged (engine rpm 2600 = flywheel rpm 470).
> Hopefully they will get the parts out and get these things up for sale again. Then you can go test drive one. I don't think you would be disappointed in the return speed of the ram if fast return is what you are looking for. The ram always bounces off the stops at least once after each stroke. A test drive might also make you carefull of how much you increase your flywheel speed. I was actually surprised at how slow the SS was flywheel speed is. But the numbers don't lie, 1" pulley with an 18.25" flywheel at 3850rpm actually only charts out to a little over 210 flywheel rpm. I wouldn't have believed the pulley size if I hadn't seen the picture with a tape measure beside the pulley (measuring where the _inside_ of the belt runs). I won't argue with Paul @ SS though!! I'll leave that to the man wanting to put a diesel on his SS!!! I want to see that video!!
> 
> After thought...wonder what rpm a small diesel engine needs to run? Most diesels don't wind up near what there gas counterparts do. I don't know about the little diesel engines. Hate to see the there price tag!


----------



## Cmccul8146

*SpeedPro Clutch*

Dozerman, if you can't run your SpeedPro below 2650 rpm because the clutch won't engage, the springs in the clutch are too strong for a splitter application. You should have a clutch that engages at 1500- 1700 rpms. You can have a clutch specially made with pulley diameter you want & also spring pressure too, but it'll cost mega bucks to have just 1 made. 

Take another look at the DR "Under the Hood" video. The SS & DR don't have V grooves in the flywheels, and the DR appears to be running a wide ,flat belt in the video. A DR owner could confirm this. What I'm getting at is that V belt pulleys are like gear pitch diameters. The diameter is measured at near mid contact point between the 2 gears, or in this case, the belt & pulley groove. That's why the SS, running a 1.75 diameter clutch pulley @ 3600rpm Is turning 18 inch flywheels at 300 rpm as advertised. 

If you have access to an old gocart clutch, take it to a local machine shop & have the sprocket machined off & a thick walled sleeve welded on. After it's welded on, have it machined to a finish size so it runs true with the hub. You or another SpeedPro owner stated that your flywheels are 17.625 diameter, so the V groove makes them even smaller. You could have the new sleeve type pulley made to 1 1/4 diameter, run a flat belt on the 17.625 flywheels , 3600rpm and be turning your flywheels at approximately 280 rpm. Wouldn't need to be concerned about clutch spring pressure then either.


----------



## Dozer Man

Cmccul8146 said:


> Dozerman, if you can't run your SpeedPro below 2650 rpm because the clutch won't engage, the springs in the clutch are too strong for a splitter application. You should have a clutch that engages at 1500- 1700 rpms. You can have a clutch specially made with pulley diameter you want & also spring pressure too, but it'll cost mega bucks to have just 1 made.
> 
> Take another look at the DR "Under the Hood" video. The SS & DR don't have V grooves in the flywheels, and the DR appears to be running a wide ,flat belt in the video. A DR owner could confirm this. What I'm getting at is that V belt pulleys are like gear pitch diameters. The diameter is measured at near mid contact point between the 2 gears, or in this case, the belt & pulley groove. That's why the SS, running a 1.75 diameter clutch pulley @ 3600rpm Is turning 18 inch flywheels at 300 rpm as advertised.
> 
> If you have access to an old gocart clutch, take it to a local machine shop & have the sprocket machined off & a thick walled sleeve welded on. After it's welded on, have it machined to a finish size so it runs true with the hub. You or another SpeedPro owner stated that your flywheels are 17.625 diameter, so the V groove makes them even smaller. You could have the new sleeve type pulley made to 1 1/4 diameter, run a flat belt on the 17.625 flywheels , 3600rpm and be turning your flywheels at approximately 280 rpm. Wouldn't need to be concerned about clutch spring pressure then either.



I've been using figures measuring from the inner most point that the belt runs. Or, the deapest point at which the belt runs. Don't know if that is right, I heard it on here somewhere along the way. You are correct about the speedpro running V belts vs. the DR and SS running a more flat belt. That's why I'm leary about just ordering one of there clutches. Although, I could order one of there clutches and a belt, then swap my flywheels from one side to the other. 

Speedpro flywheels are 18 5/8" to the outer edge, but the belts run a good 5/8" deep (outside of belt is actually recessed a little). The drive pulley, on the clutch, measures 3 5/8" at the outer edge. But the belts only run about half way down in the grooves (aprox. 1/4" deep or less). Using those figures, Cmccul, how would you go about figuring the flywheel speed? Again, I've been using the "inside of belt" measurements of 17.375" (flywheel) and 3.125" drive pulley, for the speedpro. On the SS, I've been using 18.25" fw, and 1" dp (they measure 1.75" o.d. but the actual belt rides at the "bottom" of the groove). Those are the "inner most" measurements of where the belt runs. If I am figuring wrong, please let me know. 

I'm still waiting to see if speeco is going to do something about a smaller clutch pulley/gear ratio change. But I'm thinking that even though the SS and DR run a flatter belt, that one of my V belt on my speedpro will still work on there clutch pulley. 

Thanks for your input, it is greatly appreciated!

ps...from what Philwill has said, and beings I don't have a tach, I am probly running the engine around 2500 rpm. That is just far enough past the engagement rpm (2200-2300) that the clutch and engine smooth out good.


----------



## Cmccul8146

Figure at middle of belt for pulley diameter, same as figuring pitch diameter for gears. SS uses 2 standard V belts to fit the clutch pulley . Alignment is so good that V grooves not needed for flywheels to keep belts on. Can't really see the clutch pulley on the DR video, but looks to have 1 wide flat belt. Any input on this from a DR owner?


----------



## BSD

these little kohlers idle around 1500 rpm, at least mine does. It will start engaging the clutch around 2200 and I've found 2550-2650 the ideal range to be splitting it, enough nut to get through the wood but not enough to over power the clutch with too much flywheel speed. I also liberally applied WD40 to the clutch, at any less speed and it has too hard of a time playing catch up with the flywheels with the soaked clutch.


----------



## Dozer Man

*pinion pitch figures*

Ok, at 18 5/8", it has a 5/8" groove all the way around. So, figuring like a pinion pitch, subtract the groove depth (once instead of twice) puts it at 18". Giving the drive pulley the benifit of the doubt, we'll say the belts runs 3/8" deep into the pulley, so that puts them at 3 1/4". That gives a flywheel rpm of 451.39 @ 2500 engine rpm. At the owners manual recomended 3850rpm, that puts the flywheels at 695 rpm......conclusion...I need a new clutch drive pulley!!! 

DR priced there's to me at $75. DR Power told me that there clutch pulleys were 1.75", but I need to study some pics and vids before ordering. And I still need to give speeco a chance to rectify the issue also. 

Again, thanks for you help, (and don't hesitate to correct me if I am wrong, an engineer I am not)

dozer


----------



## philwillmt

Dozer Man said:


> Ok, at 18 5/8", it has a 5/8" groove all the way around. So, figuring like a pinion pitch, subtract the groove depth (once instead of twice) puts it at 18". Giving the drive pulley the benifit of the doubt, we'll say the belts runs 3/8" deep into the pulley, so that puts them at 3 1/4". That gives a flywheel rpm of 451.39 @ 2500 engine rpm. At the owners manual recomended 3850rpm, that puts the flywheels at 695 rpm......conclusion...I need a new clutch drive pulley!!!
> 
> DR prices there's to me at $75. DR Power told me that there clutch pulleys were 1.75", but I need to study some pics and vids before ordering. And I still need to give speeco a chance to rectify the issue also.
> 
> Again, thanks for you help, (and don't hesitate to correct me if I am wrong, an engineer I am not)
> 
> dozer



Dozer Man,

Assuming your measurements are correct, your RPM calculations are dead on! Conclusion...TOO FAST!!! Do you thing anyone at SpeeCo has read "TOO FAST" in this post yet? I'm beginning to wonder! :confused2: Also, I agree with what someone said about using WD-40 on the clutch pads...it takes too long for the flywheel speed to recover once they stop. However, it does get about right after being run for a while and the WD-40 has time to sling out and dissipate.


----------



## schaaed1

philwillmt said:


> I think the 4-way wedge would actually work better on the SpeeCo due to the excessive ram speed. If not, I bet it would work at full throttle, or parts would be flying...one of the two. Probably the latter of the two. I think the hard part would be trying to prevent the auto disengagement issue. I wouldn't want to try it!



I think whomever tries this on an unmodified Speeco better be wearing full body armor.:msp_scared: With the speed the flywheels are running, a 4-way wedge will compound all of the issues people have been seeing with them.

I really think that you guys have hit the 'nail on the head'. IMHO, the *major* problem with the Speeco is the flywheel/rack speed, *period*. The excess flywheel speed is just exagerating/causing other issues ... disengagement and teeth flying off. The forces due to the ram speed are breaking/disingaging things, before the flywheels slow down enough to cause the clutch to slip.

The formula for kinetic energy is equal to mass times velocity squared, divided by 2 or (MxVxV)/2 (hard to show a formula on here). Lets take two identical splitters X & Y. Lets say they are the same specs as the SuperSplit. Double the mass on the flywheels of splitter X ... the ram will have way more energy than it did originally. Now take splitter Y and lets double its ram velocity (hey isn't the Speecos ram speed* almost *twice that of the SS orDR?). Modified splitter Y (Stock Speeco) will have WAY more kinetic energy than the modified splitter X. Well that is untill the High speed splitter Y starts beating itself to death, as pieces fly.

Now some engineer/physicist type woodchopper is probably going to come on and tell me that my calculations don't provide for 'rotating mass' blah-blah-blah ... and they are right (he!! I aint that smart). But the point is still there and will hold true at least to some significant extent.

Unless Speeco takes care of the speed/rpm issue ... either the new racks or some other component will still be breaking.


----------



## philwillmt

schaaed1 said:


> Unless Speeco takes care of the speed/rpm issue ... either the new racks or some other component will still be breaking.



Schaaed1,

100% dead on!!! As I have said before, the teeth breaking off the racks is only a symptom...NOT a cause! They need to send us a smaller clutch...it's that simple! Still waiting to hear from SpeeCo on what their "fix" is going to be...two weeks has come and gone since my last correspondence, and I still have not heard from them.


----------



## logbutcher

*Any DR 10T, or Ramsplitter 16T Electric Splitter Owners ?*

Damn, I am impressed with this analysis of a product all of us could use. 

The engineering brainpower here is astounding....and, I have no interest in the SS or RapidFire now !

You marvels have to be at least Professors ( "PROFESSORS" ? ) of M.E. At least. 

Now for my request: similar professional eval of 2 products that we can use this spring:

1. *DR 10 Ton Dual Action Electric Splitter* ( details on their site).
2. *Ramsplitter 16 Ton Electric Splitter* (site details).

Electric is how we want to go on a 110v, 20a circuit. No more 22 T gas.
Splitting 6-8 cords/year of average 16"-20" butts of Red Maple, Paper Birch, some Ash, little Red Oak.
Ramsplitter "looks" less slick than the DR: hydraulic hoses exposed, I beam rather than boxed beam.
Both have good reps.
DR has a "6 Month Trial", pay shipping both ways IF returned. Ram has no return policy, just parts warranty.

Thx.


----------



## Dozer Man

*Uh...what??*



logbutcher said:


> Damn, I am impressed with this analysis of a product all of us could use.
> 
> The engineering brainpower here is astounding....and, I have no interest in the SS or RapidFire now !
> 
> You marvels have to be at least Professors ( "PROFESSORS" ? ) of M.E. At least.
> 
> Now for my request: similar professional eval of 2 products that we can use this spring:
> 
> 1. *DR 10 Ton Dual Action Electric Splitter* ( details on their site).
> 2. *Ramsplitter 16 Ton Electric Splitter* (site details).
> 
> Electric is how we want to go on a 110v, 20a circuit. No more 22 T gas.
> Splitting 6-8 cords/year of average 16"-20" butts of Red Maple, Paper Birch, some Ash, little Red Oak.
> Ramsplitter "looks" less slick than the DR: hydraulic hoses exposed, I beam rather than boxed beam.
> Both have good reps.
> DR has a "6 Month Trial", pay shipping both ways IF returned. Ram has no return policy, just parts warranty.
> 
> Thx.




Let me think about this....Thanks but no thanks!!

fyi...sarcasm not appreciated lb


----------



## Russ84na

philwillmt said:


> Schaaed1,
> 
> 100% dead on!!! As I have said before, the teeth breaking off the racks is only a symptom...NOT a cause! They need to send us a smaller clutch...it's that simple! Still waiting to hear from SpeeCo on what their "fix" is going to be...two weeks has come and gone since my last correspondence, and I still have not heard from them.



I have been following this thread ever since I got the flyer from Tractor Supply and then found out that they had been taken off the market.
I agree that the speed of the ram is the root of the problem and the teeth breaking off is the symptom. Everyone is talking about slowing down the ram by using a smaller clutch pulley. Not having a machine to look at so I can't tell if this idea is feasible, I will just toss it out for discussion.
What if the drive belt was run to a shaft that had both a 6" and 3" pulley on it and then to the flywheel. Doing this, if my calculations are correct would result in a slower ram speed.
3.25" clutch pulley run to a 6" intermediate pulley @ 2500 RPM's would result in a shaft speed of about 1350 rpm's. If a second belt was run from the 3" pulley on the same shaft as the 6" pulley to the 18" flywheel, the result would be about 225 rpm's.
Please confirm or dispute my calculations and tell me if this is feasible to install the extra pulley's on the speedpro.


----------



## schaaed1

Russ84na said:


> I have been following this thread ever since I got the flyer from Tractor Supply and then found out that they had been taken off the market.
> I agree that the speed of the ram is the root of the problem and the teeth breaking off is the symptom. Everyone is talking about slowing down the ram by using a smaller clutch pulley. Not having a machine to look at so I can't tell if this idea is feasible, I will just toss it out for discussion.
> What if the drive belt was run to a shaft that had both a 6" and 3" pulley on it and then to the flywheel. Doing this, if my calculations are correct would result in a slower ram speed.
> 3.25" clutch pulley run to a 6" intermediate pulley @ 2500 RPM's would result in a shaft speed of about 1350 rpm's. If a second belt was run from the 3" pulley on the same shaft as the 6" pulley to the 18" flywheel, the result would be about 225 rpm's.
> Please confirm or dispute my calculations and tell me if this is feasible to install the extra pulley's on the speedpro.



Certianly adding in a jackshaft could get you to the same result, with the appropriate pulleys. I do not have a machine either, and I said many pages ago that I am following this only to come up with ideas to build one.

That being said ... addiing a jackshaft may not be very easy. At minimum there would be an alignment issue with the belts and the motor would have to be offset by 1/2 the with of the double pulley (otherwise the belt on the flywheel will not end up in the grove). You could also take the approach of putting one pulley on either end of the jackshaft ... but then the motor would have to be relocated. Either way, by the time you bought shaft material, a couple bearing blocks and a couple sheaves ... I think there would be a few $$ and some pretty major reengineering. Now if you were building from scratch this might be a good way to go and would add simple adjustability in the flywheel RPM.

IMHO, changing out the clutch is still the the most practical solution. 

Hmmm ... as I am typing ... I am wondering if there is a clutch that, someone with a lathe (like me:msp_smile, could turn the existing pully or sprocket down and still have enough 'meat' left for a stub shaft. With a stub shaft on the clutch, you could change pulley sizes at will.

Maybe I'll have to watch what solution Speeco comes up with (I don't think it will be changing pulleys). Maybe someone I know will have to come up with a pulley retrofit kit.


----------



## logbutcher

*Any DR 10T, or Ramsplitter 16T Electric Splitter Owners ?*



Dozer Man said:


> Let me think about this....Thanks but no thanks!!
> 
> fyi...*sarcasm not appreciated* lb



Hey Doz, there's NO, repeat NO, sarcasm here implied or meant. Get a clear definition of what sarcasm is. If you can't understand the words, ask for an explanation. You read too much into the thin skin syndrome demo-ed by your post. 

Read again: it is a compliment about the expertise and detail about machines. It is interesting and informative....for me. You need to cease making Straw Dog structures. 
This was not a post for your "appreciation". It was as said and requested. Get over it Doz. "You are not the target" ( A. Huxley)

Now again: anyone have that kind of experience and expertise about electric splitters mentioned ? ( No, not you Doz :msp_sneaky: ).


----------



## ziggo_2

Sounded like speeco was replacing the rack, im wondering if the replacement rack will correct the speed issue....But it looks like we will never know. Seriously, you guys have waited too long for these fixes...if i was any of you, id be calling speeco everyday complaining.....kinda seems like they are trying to sweep this under the rug, dont it?


----------



## CUCV

Schaaed your equation is correct and it can be applied to rotational inertia however, there are other equations necessary to quantify the amount of splitting force being applied the to the log that is going to be split. The most difficult thing to figure out is the amount of time that the maximum force is being generated. As the length of time is shortened the equations used to analyze the splitting force changes from linear to non-linear.

I ran the numbers on a sticky note the other day. I made a bunch of assumptions as you have to in many instances and solved for the length of time to completely stop the flywheels from full speed to generate a force of 16 tons as advertised by Supersplit. I then took this length of time and ran the numbers on the Speedpro again making a bunch of assumptions. The numbers aren't worth posting yet because I feel like i need better dimensions and a tached RPM on the flywheel of the speedpro.
Basically I'm trying compare the impact load of a Suburban going 5mph crashing into a wall vs. a yugo going 10mph crashing into a wall. ie SS with 75lb flywheels vs Speedpro with 60lbs flywheels.

Another way to look at the problem is look at the teeth on the rack and pinion. How many teeth are in contact at any point in time and how much surface area is the force being applied to? I'm guessing since the pinion is so small there is not much more than one tooth in contact at any point and the surface area in contact is around a .25". (these are just guestimated) So if we take that and apply a 32000lbs load (16 tons) we are looking at 128,000 psi. So I'm guessing rack and pinion are not A36 steel.

From my experience messing around with my supersplit it really doesn't matter how fast the flywheel is spinning, its how fast the pinion is spinning. My third homemade flywheel spins at 1000rpm but my pinion speed is stock speed. I met a guy years ago who had a very early SS (like single or double digit serial number) It had one flywheel that spun at motor speed 3600rpm but the pinion ran the same speed as mine.






schaaed1 said:


> I think whomever tries this on an unmodified Speeco better be wearing full body armor.:msp_scared: With the speed the flywheels are running, a 4-way wedge will compound all of the issues people have been seeing with them.
> 
> I really think that you guys have hit the 'nail on the head'. IMHO, the *major* problem with the Speeco is the flywheel/rack speed, *period*. The excess flywheel speed is just exagerating/causing other issues ... disengagement and teeth flying off. The forces due to the ram speed are breaking/disingaging things, before the flywheels slow down enough to cause the clutch to slip.
> 
> The formula for kinetic energy is equal to mass times velocity squared, divided by 2 or (MxVxV)/2 (hard to show a formula on here). Lets take two identical splitters X & Y. Lets say they are the same specs as the SuperSplit. Double the mass on the flywheels of splitter X ... the ram will have way more energy than it did originally. Now take splitter Y and lets double its ram velocity (hey isn't the Speecos ram speed* almost *twice that of the SS orDR?). Modified splitter Y (Stock Speeco) will have WAY more kinetic energy than the modified splitter X. Well that is untill the High speed splitter Y starts beating itself to death, as pieces fly.
> 
> Now some engineer/physicist type woodchopper is probably going to come on and tell me that my calculations don't provide for 'rotating mass' blah-blah-blah ... and they are right (he!! I aint that smart). But the point is still there and will hold true at least to some significant extent.
> 
> Unless Speeco takes care of the speed/rpm issue ... either the new racks or some other component will still be breaking.





logbutcher 
Any DR 10T, or Ramsplitter 16T Electric Splitter Owners ?

Logbutcher
Save your cash and buy an electric Supersplit
ELECTRIC SUPERSPLIT LOGSPLITTER - YouTube


----------



## schaaed1

No arguments CUCV, I think we are both, pretty much, thinking along the same lines.

I actually did not know the difference in the mass of the flywheels ... but that's why in my example I said both version X&Y were both SuperSplits. I could have said DR or Speeco ... doesn't matter as long as the rest is the same ... only changing one part of the equation for illustration (also would have meant the pinions would have been same diam and geared the same).

Also true, the pinion rpm makes the difference in speed. But on the stock machines ... the pinion rpm = flywheel rpm (unless I'm missing something). In your case with the third flywheel, the situation gets more complicated ... but this would also be unique to your machine. 

Actually, I did not think of this before, but your modded SS shows part of what I was saying. You increaased the mass of the flywheels and are getting good and controlable results. What do think would have happened had you not put on the third flywheel, but instead, came close to doubling the ram velocity?

A diff twist on your crash analogy (for people that we might be loosing in our 'jibberish') ... but it kinda illustrates the point:
Stock SuberSplit = Ford Explorer doing 35mph
CUCV's SuperSplit (xtra flywheel) = Ford Excursion doing 35mph
Stock SS with 'almost' double velocity = Ford Exploreer doing 69mph.

Which will sustain the most damage in a crash with a concrete wall?


----------



## philwillmt

ziggo_2 said:


> Sounded like speeco was replacing the rack, im wondering if the replacement rack will correct the speed issue....But it looks like we will never know. Seriously, you guys have waited too long for these fixes...if i was any of you, id be calling speeco everyday complaining.....kinda seems like they are trying to sweep this under the rug, dont it?



Ziggo_2,

Replacing the rack will not correct the over-speed issue in any way. You're right...SpeeCo has been very hush-hush thus far. I'm still waiting to hear back from them.


----------



## CUCV

Basically when I did the math out I came out with the stock SS with more impact force than the Speedpro. So using the analogy below my modified SS sees the most damage, second the stock SS and last the speedpro. However, I believe my assumptions on the Speedpro are to great to be conclusive but my math does show that the slower heavier vehicle can see more damage.



schaaed1 said:


> No arguments CUCV, I think we are both, pretty much, thinking along the same lines.
> 
> 
> A diff twist on your crash analogy (for people that we might be loosing in our 'jibberish') ... but it kinda illustrates the point:
> Stock SuberSplit = Ford Explorer doing 35mph
> CUCV's SuperSplit (xtra flywheel) = Ford Excursion doing 35mph
> Stock SS with 'almost' double velocity = Ford Exploreer doing 69mph.
> 
> Which will sustain the most damage in a crash with a concrete wall?


----------



## philwillmt

CUCV said:


> I'm trying compare the impact load of a Suburban going 5mph crashing into a wall vs. a yugo going 10mph crashing into a wall. ie SS with 75lb flywheels vs Speedpro with 60lbs flywheels. From my experience messing around with my supersplit it really doesn't matter how fast the flywheel is spinning, its how fast the pinion is spinning.
> 
> CUCV,
> 
> The SpeedPro is advertised as having "two 70 lb. flywheels capable of producing up to 28 tons* of splitting force." Also, unless I missed something on the Super Split and DR Rapid Fire videos, the pinion shaft RPM is the exact same as the flywheel RPM, as the flywheels are mounted to the pinion shaft...just like the SpeedPro.


----------



## Cmccul8146

*Rack & Pinion Steel*

So I'm guessing rack and pinion are not A36 steel.

You are correct CUCV. The rack & pinion are heat treated alloys, while A36 is nothing more than mild, low carbon hot rolled steel. I used A36 disks cut from 2" thick plate to machine the flywheels for my homebuilt splitter. I releived both sides of the flywheels, bored them & welded in 2 1/2 " keyed hubs for the pinion shaft. Each flywheel blank weighed 148.21 lbs before machining, and afterwards they weigh 102 lbs each. My pinion pitch diameter is 2.500 inches ,whereas the SS pinion PD is approximately 1.500. I HAVE to run my splitter at lower engine speed, as ram travels 7.854 inches for 1 revolution of the flywheels. SS J model uses 72 lb flywheels, so the extra 30lbs each on mine allow me to split very efficently at only 160 or so flywheel rpm. Also my A36 machined flywheels won't explode as cast iron flywheels can if they are spun too fast. If I remember correctly, Paul at SS told me 300 rpm was the maximum safe speed for the cast iron flywheels. or else I read in somewhere. 

What is the weight of your 3rd flywheel?


----------



## Jules083

CUCV said:


> Basically when I did the math out I came out with the stock SS with more impact force than the Speedpro. So using the analogy below my modified SS sees the most damage, second the stock SS and last the speedpro. However, I believe my assumptions on the Speedpro are to great to be conclusive but my math does show that the slower heavier vehicle can see more damage.



Not trying to dispute your math, but to add a thought I just had. Flywheel weight isn't as important as where the weight is located. What I mean by this is a flywheel that is light in the center but heavy on the outside will have more energy than a flywheel that is heavier on the inside but lighter on the outside, with all else being equal. The splitters may have an equal weight distribution, I don't know. If so then my point doesn't matter. I can't remember what my speedpro or SS flywheels look like right now, I never thought to pay attention to that.


----------



## Dozer Man

logbutcher said:


> Hey Doz, there's NO, repeat NO, sarcasm here implied or meant. Get a clear definition of what sarcasm is. If you can't understand the words, ask for an explanation. You read too much into the thin skin syndrome demo-ed by your post.
> 
> Read again: it is a compliment about the expertise and detail about machines. It is interesting and informative....for me. You need to cease making Straw Dog structures.
> This was not a post for your "appreciation". It was as said and requested. Get over it Doz. "You are not the target" ( A. Huxley)
> 
> Now again: anyone have that kind of experience and expertise about electric splitters mentioned ? ( No, not you Doz :msp_sneaky: ).



Lb,
My apologies, thought you were just another da joining in on the speedpro bashing. At first read, I just never dreamed it was a serious request. I'll try to grow some thicker skin, like yours.

Here's my eval anyway...they both look slow.


----------



## logbutcher

Nice post Doz...thanks.

Yes, electrics are slower for similar power to engines. I don't need speed; need quiet. Next winter's 7.5 cord is bucked and stacked for splitting in April. The ground has been hard, and little snow....an easy harvest this year. Tonight and the last couple have been 3 Dog Nights making up for the warm Fall and warm early winter. My 22T TroyBilt is going: loud, fussy in cold, eats fuel, takes maintenance.

The SuperSplit electric would be perfect (great machine BTW if you need speed and power with electric quiet ), but at ~ $3000. and rewiring for 220v is not in my plans. Budget is more in the $1000. range. My single malt budget would take a hit.:msp_angry:


----------



## Dozer Man

Stock SuberSplit = Ford Explorer doing 35mph
CUCV's SuperSplit (xtra flywheel) = Ford Excursion doing 35mph
Stock SS with 'almost' double velocity = Ford Exploreer doing 69mph.

I'll take the excursion, then the 35mph explorer, but I definitely wouldn't want to be in the 69mph explorer! Aw crap........lol

Here's a question. Are we talking about which scenario is going to do more damage to the vehicle? Or to the tree it is hitting??


----------



## Dozer Man

logbutcher said:


> Nice post Doz...thanks.
> 
> Yes, electrics are slower for similar power to engines. I don't need speed; need quiet. Next winter's 7.5 cord is bucked and stacked for splitting in April. The ground has been hard, and little snow....an easy harvest this year. Tonight and the last couple have been 3 Dog Nights making up for the warm Fall and warm early winter. My 22T TroyBilt is going: loud, fussy in cold, eats fuel, takes maintenance.
> 
> The SuperSplit electric would be perfect (great machine BTW if you need speed and power with electric quiet ), but at ~ $3000. and rewiring for 220v is not in my plans. Budget is more in the $1000. range. My single malt budget would take a hit.:msp_angry:



You've probly seen this, but...Electric Log Splitter - YouTube

I believe this is a video of the ramsplitter(not sure how current). It's faster than what I thought it would be, being electric. A production table on it would help alot (SS table would be perfect for this splitter). And get it up higher so you're not hunched over all the time. My back would be killing me after no time with it the way it is.

Watching the DR video, it looks like it's ram speed is slower, but it splits in both directions. And, the DR sits up higher and already has a production table (it's nice not to have to pick your splits up off the ground every time). 

No, they are not as fast as a kinetic splitter. They're hydraulic, they're not supposed to be. But, they do split wood repititiously! That is the end product we are all striving for.

I would love to recommend for you to get a speedpro and convert it to electric (let me know the gear ratio). With the proper gearing, I think it be very easy to do, once you know the operating rpm of the electric motor. Who knows, Speeco might have an electric speedpro on the horizon, but I'm sure it will be well north of $1000. 

Good luck.

Logbutcher...I'll start saving for that bottle of 12 yr. old, when this one gets low !!!


----------



## logbutcher

A neighbor has used a SS electric for over 15 years with no problems....and bought used out of a divorce settlement ( never say "The Wife" ). A new one is out of the budget @ an easy $3000.; used rarely come on the market here in Maine. Anyone want to give their's up ?

The Ramsplitter 16 or 20 ton would do, also has a good rep. Looking at the 'build' compared to the DR 10 T with no side tables, exposed hoses, and an I-Beam it looks less robust than the DR. DR has a 6 month trial, no questions asked for return ( pay shipping ), and excellent parts and customer service available. Prices for either are close.

P.S. It is Laphroaig 10 year old, now running close to $50. a fifth. PM for this address.:alien2:


----------



## Naked Arborist

*Thanks Guys*

Well, I've spent too much time reading this thread and waiting for Speedco to clean up their mess. Now it's time to go buy a rack and pinion, build my own, stop wasting time waiting on another companies inferior machine.

Thanks to all for the great info posted here. I'm sure the machine will be far better than theirs in the end by using all the great info posted on this site and others.


----------



## schaaed1

Dozer Man said:


> Stock SuberSplit = Ford Explorer doing 35mph
> CUCV's SuperSplit (xtra flywheel) = Ford Excursion doing 35mph
> Stock SS with 'almost' double velocity = Ford Exploreer doing 69mph.
> 
> I'll take the excursion, then the 35mph explorer, but I definitely wouldn't want to be in the 69mph explorer! Aw crap........lol
> 
> *Here's a question. Are we talking about which scenario is going to do more damage to the vehicle? Or to the tree it is hitting?*?


Does it matter??? 

Newton's third law of motion: For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.:wink2:

Dozer - Looking at your stock clutch, If someone was to turn the metal on the pulley down on a lathe ... making a shaft on the clutch. How small of a diam could you get down to and still have a little beef to mount a pully on?


----------



## CUCV

*Thanks phil, I read somewere else that they were 60lbs but checked with the speedpro website and you are correct.
Again I made tons of ASSumptions about the Speedpro when I ran the rough calcs., most notably the mass of the flywheels, mass center of inertia, pinion pitch diameter and flywheel rpm. At 70lbs flywheels the speedpro creates more force than the SS in my calcs with all my ASSumptions.
*



philwillmt said:


> CUCV said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm trying compare the impact load of a Suburban going 5mph crashing into a wall vs. a yugo going 10mph crashing into a wall. ie SS with 75lb flywheels vs Speedpro with 60lbs flywheels. From my experience messing around with my supersplit it really doesn't matter how fast the flywheel is spinning, its how fast the pinion is spinning.
> 
> CUCV,
> 
> The SpeedPro is advertised as having "two 70 lb. flywheels capable of producing up to 28 tons* of splitting force." Also, unless I missed something on the Super Split and DR Rapid Fire videos, the pinion shaft RPM is the exact same as the flywheel RPM, as the flywheels are mounted to the pinion shaft...just like the SpeedPro.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *I agree that it does matter where the mass is, I can easily calculate the mass center of inertia of the SS flywheel because I can go in the garage and take accurate measurements, not owning a Speedpro I made some assumption one being the flywheel weight at 60lbs not 70lbs.*
> 
> 
> Jules083
> Originally Posted by CUCV
> Basically when I did the math out I came out with the stock SS with more impact force than the Speedpro. So using the analogy below my modified SS sees the most damage, second the stock SS and last the speedpro. However, I believe my assumptions on the Speedpro are to great to be conclusive but my math does show that the slower heavier vehicle can see more damage.
> Not trying to dispute your math, but to add a thought I just had. Flywheel weight isn't as important as where the weight is located. What I mean by this is a flywheel that is light in the center but heavy on the outside will have more energy than a flywheel that is heavier on the inside but lighter on the outside, with all else being equal. The splitters may have an equal weight distribution, I don't know. If so then my point doesn't matter. I can't remember what my speedpro or SS flywheels look like right now, I never thought to pay attention to that.
> 
> 
> *The A36 comment was sarcasm.
> 
> That is great you built your own, I would love to find the time to build one from the ground up.
> 
> Cast flywheels run at speeds orders of magnitute greater than 300rpm but each application, steel or cast should be analysed.
> 
> I haven't run numbers on my SS in over 12 years til now. I will have to measure up the extra flywheel to calculate its mass. The extra flywheel on my electric SS has a heavier flywheel than the gas model.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cmccul8146
> Rack & Pinion Steel
> 
> So I'm guessing rack and pinion are not A36 steel.
> 
> You are correct CUCV. The rack & pinion are heat treated alloys, while A36 is nothing more than mild, low carbon hot rolled steel. I used A36 disks cut from 2" thick plate to machine the flywheels for my homebuilt splitter. I releived both sides of the flywheels, bored them & welded in 2 1/2 " keyed hubs for the pinion shaft. Each flywheel blank weighed 148.21 lbs before machining, and afterwards they weigh 102 lbs each. My pinion pitch diameter is 2.500 inches ,whereas the SS pinion PD is approximately 1.500. I HAVE to run my splitter at lower engine speed, as ram travels 7.854 inches for 1 revolution of the flywheels. SS J model uses 72 lb flywheels, so the extra 30lbs each on mine allow me to split very efficently at only 160 or so flywheel rpm. Also my A36 machined flywheels won't explode as cast iron flywheels can if they are spun too fast. If I remember correctly, Paul at SS told me 300 rpm was the maximum safe speed for the cast iron flywheels. or else I read in somewhere.
> 
> What is the weight of your 3rd flywheel?
Click to expand...


----------



## Dozer Man

schaaed1 said:


> Does it matter???
> 
> Newton's third law of motion: For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.:wink2:
> 
> Dozer - Looking at your stock clutch, If someone was to turn the metal on the pulley down on a lathe ... making a shaft on the clutch. How small of a diam could you get down to and still have a little beef to mount a pully on?





If it rains tomorrow, I will get some "under the hood" pics of my spdpro. Hopefully I can get good enough pics to see a tape measure. I will post them soon as I can.


----------



## schaaed1

CUCV said:


> At 70lbs flywheels the speedpro creates more force than the SS in my calcs with all my ASSumptions.


That actually follows with each brands 'sales pitch' as well. If I remember right, SS says 14-24 tons and Speeco says 'up to 28 tons' ... or something like that (remembering from what I read yeaterday).



Dozer Man said:


> If it rains tomorrow, I will get some "under the hood" pics of my spdpro. Hopefully I can get good enough pics to see a tape measure. I will post them soon as I can.


The big question will be wiith the clutch pulley turned down in a lathe ... can we get that stub small snough to fit into the smalller sized pulley. Of course that will also depend on how much we can bore out a solid pulley ... without messing it up.


----------



## CRThomas

*Dr*



STLfirewood said:


> Not having to deal with the 2 handed operation is worth at least 1k for me. That would be a deal breaker. They must not use these before the sell them because that log cradle would be a big pain in the butt. When splitting with these types of splitter it is faster and easier on you to be able to slide the wood back to the beam. Lifting it on the cradle will really slow you down and wear you out. I give them credit for trying to make it towable. If I want to tow mine I just use a 4x8 tilt trailer. I would consider the DR before I would buy this one. I still favor the SS over both though. These things work and will outsplit a normal hydraulic hands down even with log cradle. You will have this machine for 20years spend a few extra dollars and get the good one.
> 
> 
> Scott


my friend bought one and his big stuff he has to bring it to me because he sold his 3 point splitter. He said the DR is great for perfect wood get into big stuff or knotty stuff. But as long as it's straight grain and small it is a super machine. Before you buy take that in to account later gang. I stick with my 3 hydraulics they faster than me and I don't do about a 50 cord a year more or less so I my self don't need a speedy machine but different strokes for different folks later STL


----------



## Cmccul8146

CRThomas said:


> my friend bought one and his big stuff he has to bring it to me because he sold his 3 point splitter. He said the DR is great for perfect wood get into big stuff or knotty stuff. But as long as it's straight grain and small it is a super machine. Before you buy take that in to account later gang. I stick with my 3 hydraulics they faster than me and I don't do about a 50 cord a year more or less so I my self don't need a speedy machine but different strokes for different folks later STL




Sounds like your friend hasn't learned to read the wood well enough to know how to split big or nasty pieces with a kinetic splitter yet. I only split about 6 to 8 cords per year for me & a couple of friends, but we can get it done VERY FAST, & then we have more time to hunt, fish, saw lumber on my bandmill, go 4 wheeling, or whatever else we want to do. No point in spending all our free time cutting & splitting wood when we don't have to.


----------



## KiwiBro

Cmccul8146 said:


> Sounds like your friend hasn't learned to read the wood well enough to know how to split big or nasty pieces with a kinetic splitter yet. I only...


Horses for courses. 
There is every chance someone doing enough big and nasty (note the subjectivity of both 'big' and 'nasty') stuff is going to be better off having a grunty hydraulic to go with their shop-bought (as opposed to a self-built with more inertia) kinetic, regardless of how well they 'read the wood'. 
I just don't think it's credible to suggest a kinetic (at least the ones I see by SS, DR, and SP) will do everything including making the morning coffee and that it is a user's inexperience alone that explains why they may choke on big and nasty stuff.


----------



## CRThomas

*Firewood big*



KiwiBro said:


> Horses for courses.
> There is every chance someone doing enough big and nasty (note the subjectivity of both 'big' and 'nasty') stuff is going to be better off having a grunty hydraulic to go with their shop-bought (as opposed to a self-built with more inertia) kinetic, regardless of how well they 'read the wood'.
> I just don't think it's credible to suggest a kinetic (at least the ones I see by SS, DR, and SP) will do everything including making the morning coffee and that it is a user's inexperience alone that explains why they may choke on big and nasty stuff.


 My tractor will pickup 1200 lb minus the 200 lb forks I put logs on my splitter that make my tractor light in the back end will a DR handle that and it is rock cherry. Later


----------



## Cmccul8146

CRThomas said:


> My tractor will pickup 1200 lb minus the 200 lb forks I put logs on my splitter that make my tractor light in the back end will a DR handle that and it is rock cherry. Later



What length & diameter are you splitting that weighs nearly 1000 lbs? Like to see a pic of that. Too much logging going on around here for trees to get that big. Biggest I've split was a 26" diameter red oak, cut to 18" long. That weighed 315 lbs, & was loaded onto the splitter with my forklift. Have a 16 ft long red oak now, 29" tapering down to 26", but I'm going to saw it into 6/4 lumber for a truck floor for a guy. That log is roughly 66 cu. ft., or just over a half cord. More money in the lumber than firewood, lots less work, and will still have lots of firewood from the slabs.


----------



## Dozer Man

*24-28 Inch Rounds*



Cmccul8146 said:


> What length & diameter are you splitting that weighs nearly 1000 lbs? Like to see a pic of that. Too much logging going on around here for trees to get that big. Biggest I've split was a 26" diameter red oak, cut to 18" long. That weighed 315 lbs, & was loaded onto the splitter with my forklift. Have a 16 ft long red oak now, 29" tapering down to 26", but I'm going to saw it into 6/4 lumber for a truck floor for a guy. That log is roughly 66 cu. ft., or just over a half cord. More money in the lumber than firewood, lots less work, and will still have lots of firewood from the slabs.



Cmccul8146, I'll take your side, even with my speedpro. Granted, I had some help lifting some of it onto the log cradle, but I've split several 24-28 inch rounds of white oak, pin oak, ash, red oak, black walnut etc. Obviously it all had some knots otherwise most would have gone to the mill. Only prob is catching the halves before they hit the ground. But the halves are a lot easier to manage than the wholes. 

Not counting sawing, my wife and I can stuff my shortbed in 20 minutes (1/3 cord). No, I don't make a habit of bucking and splitting the great big stuff. Although I do seem to have a lot of it this year. If needed, I have no problem noodling. But the only thing I will be using my old hydro for is quartering to a manageble size. 

Just my opinion fwiw.


----------



## wildeswood

I am in Maine. I have been having several problems with my speedpro. I called local TSC store today and they told me that Speeco has a set screw recall. That is supposedly why they stopped sales up here.


----------



## Dozer Man

wildeswood said:


> I am in Maine. I have been having several problems with my speedpro. I called local TSC store today and they told me that Speeco has a set screw recall. That is supposedly why they stopped sales up here.



Wildeswood,
Sorry to hear about your problems, but you're not alone. That is the first I've heard of a "set screw" problem. The biggest issues I've heard of are "rack blowing teeth" and the "handle connecting rod bending". Supposedly those were the reasons for the "stop sale". You could read through this whole thread for answers, but it would be easier for you to just describe your issues to us. I'm sure everyone still paying attention to this thread will help all they/we can.


edit-- not to mention "excessive ram speed":msp_glare:


----------



## philwillmt

wildeswood said:


> I am in Maine. I have been having several problems with my speedpro. I called local TSC store today and they told me that Speeco has a set screw recall. That is supposedly why they stopped sales up here.



A set screw recall? That's a new one on me! What problems are you having with your SpeedPro?


----------



## CRThomas

*Electric splitter*



Dozer Man said:


> You've probly seen this, but...Electric Log Splitter - YouTube
> 
> I believe this is a video of the ramsplitter(not sure how current). It's faster than what I thought it would be, being electric. A production table on it would help alot (SS table would be perfect for this splitter). And get it up higher so you're not hunched over all the time. My back would be killing me after no time with it the way it is.
> 
> Watching the DR video, it looks like it's ram speed is slower, but it splits in both directions. And, the DR sits up higher and already has a production table (it's nice not to have to pick your splits up off the ground every time).
> 
> No, they are not as fast as a kinetic splitter. They're hydraulic, they're not supposed to be. But, they do split wood repititiously! That is the end product we are all striving for.
> 
> 
> I would love to recommend for you to get a speedpro and convert it to electric (let me know the gear ratio). With the proper gearing, I think it be very easy to do, once you know the operating rpm of the electric motor. Who knows, Speeco might have an electric speedpro on the horizon, but I'm sure it will be well north of $1000.
> 
> 
> Good luck.
> 
> Logbutcher...I'll start saving for that bottle of 12 yr. old, when this one gets low !!!


I got a three point log splitter from Ram splitter. Later on I needed a splitter to in my shop so I bought another point took my old one call Doug at Ramsplitter he sent me a three hp electric motor and pump. It has split a lot of wood in the last 3 years. I built a steel table for it to set on I use it more than my other 2 splitters my 20 and 30 tons give Doug a call he help you out later


----------



## CRThomas

*Tree size*



Cmccul8146 said:


> What length & diameter are you splitting that weighs nearly 1000 lbs? Like to see a pic of that. Too much logging going on around here for trees to get that big. Biggest I've split was a 26" diameter red oak, cut to 18" long. That weighed 315 lbs, & was loaded onto the splitter with my forklift. Have a 16 ft long red oak now, 29" tapering down to 26", but I'm going to saw it into 6/4 lumber for a truck floor for a guy. That log is roughly 66 cu. ft., or just over a half cord. More money in the lumber than firewood, lots less work, and will still have lots of firewood from the slabs.


I have 2 Oak down in my wood that I can hide my tractor behind my logs are only 16 to 18 inchs long. Wille cut one tree I hauled in he had to notch it with his 48 inch bar. I couldn't pick up three pieces with my tractor I had to go get my fork lift and it picks up 3 ton. In southern Illinois we still have some large oak and some super big cotton wood. With my 20 in bar I would have to eat on them like a beaver. I help cut one cotton wood for a fellow we cut on it for two and give next day went back the wind had come up and it was down and a half dozen other tree in it's path. Later


----------



## wildeswood

philwillmt said:


> A set screw recall? That's a new one on me! What problems are you having with your SpeedPro?



The bolts that adjust the tension on the belts are backing off about every three cords. I have tried loc-tite and double nut but they still back out. Also the bolt on the crank pulley backs out about every cord. Again I tried loc-tite but to no prevail. As most people have mentioned I get some bad disengagements. I had not read anything about these machines when I contacted TSC. I was very dissapointed with the response when they told me that it was a set screw recall. They would not refund my money. I purchased 9/21/11. The first two months we did not use much because we use a firewood processor. When it gets cold we put processor away and start using splitters. I think it is a great machine for the money but I also think it was not field tested and put into the hands of us too soon. TSC called back and said they spoke with rep from speeco and he was not very helpful. Speeco told TSC to send it out and fix it. TSC is giving me the option to trade it for a hydraulic.


----------



## philwillmt

wildeswood said:


> The bolts that adjust the tension on the belts are backing off about every three cords. I have tried loc-tite and double nut but they still back out. Also the bolt on the crank pulley backs out about every cord. Again I tried loc-tite but to no prevail. As most people have mentioned I get some bad disengagements. I had not read anything about these machines when I contacted TSC. I was very dissapointed with the response when they told me that it was a set screw recall. They would not refund my money. I purchased 9/21/11. The first two months we did not use much because we use a firewood processor. When it gets cold we put processor away and start using splitters. I think it is a great machine for the money but I also think it was not field tested and put into the hands of us too soon. TSC called back and said they spoke with rep from speeco and he was not very helpful. Speeco told TSC to send it out and fix it. TSC is giving me the option to trade it for a hydraulic.



Wildeswood,

Check the lock washers...I bet they are for left-handed threads, and you have right-handed threads. The reason I say that is because that's what I found on mine when I was assembling it new out of the crate. I also found the same thing on the non-driven flywheel when I had to remove it because of an out of balance issue. I would not be surprised if there were more backwards lock washers on my machine, but I haven't purposely looked for them. You may have a backwards lock washer on your clutch retainer bolt as well, and that could be allowing it to loosen up. It's not hard to know if the lock washers are for opposite-handed threads, as they will dig into the head of the bolt and try to separate as you tighten the bolt, whereas they should dig in only when the bolt tries to loosen. As I have stated numerous times before on this forum, a lot of the problems with the SpeedPro splitter are directly related to a lack of quality control. Missing parts, backwards lock washers, flywheels out of balance...ALL due to a lack of quality control! I would definitely get the clutch bolt issue taken care of...that particular bolt loosening up is dangerous! Good luck...we're all waiting to see how SpeeCo is going to take care of their customers. These splitters were pulled off the market quite some time ago, so they are way overdue on a remedy in my opinion. I'm just glad I'm not one of the customers who paid good money for a brand new SpeeCo splitter with the intent of using it in a firewood business...they are the ones that are really taking a beating! Hopefully SpeeCo will come through for us SpeedPro owners, but the clock is still ticking...


----------



## wildeswood

Thanks for the tip on the lock washers. I overlooked that. I will check it out in the morning.


----------



## Naked Arborist

*bummer*



wildeswood said:


> Thanks for the tip on the lock washers. I overlooked that. I will check it out in the morning.



Sounds like piss poor quality control all the way around on the Speedco's end. With all the problems you guys keep seeing cropping up with these machines I'm so glad I did not purchase one and defiantly would not buy one now. "Backwards lock washers?" this is like engineering for third graders  lol. I feel for all the people with one of these machines sitting around wasting your money and time, damn shame. As for the, "they gave me the option to trade it in for a hydro unit" that seems like a real cop-out on TS part, another sign of poor customer service. This week I'm putting a 13 HP Honda on the trusty ol' single stage homemade hydro I have laying in the back. It should up the crunch quite a bit on the ram power verses the old brigs cast iron single cylinder that was on it. The engine is a dinosaur, can you say " heavy old iron" lol. I'd say the Honda is a third the weight with twice the grunt. 
Anybody have some info on where I might find a rack & pinion, local to me, to build a inertia splitter this spring or summer coming up? I'd prefer to use new vs used ones. I do have most of what else is needed to put one together.


----------



## stumpy75

stumpy75 said:


> I have a question that I guess needs to be asked...
> 
> *What is Speeco/TSC going to do about these problems?*
> 
> It's great that many people are trying to come up with solutions, but it does seem like the manufacturer needs to step up. Speeco has a great reputation, so I hope they will come through...
> 
> After my initial post starting this thread, it sure took on a life of it's own. Who would have figured??



I asked this on 12/12/11. Bump....


----------



## CRThomas

*Answer*



stumpy75 said:


> I asked this on 12/12/11. Bump....


I am going to stick with RamSplitter at Rockford Illinois later


----------



## lumberjackmoe

*Going at it !!*

Naked Arborist, Thank you for feeling for me. Since purchaseing my Speedpro in August I have been running the Koehler Engine at 1500 rpms and splitting a bunch of White Oak. No problems for me! Plus I have a bunch of money in the bank.


----------



## CRThomas

*Answer*



lumberjackmoe said:


> Naked Arborist, Thank you for feeling for me. Since purchaseing my Speedpro in August I have been running the Koehler Engine at 1500 rpms and splitting a bunch of White Oak. No problems for me! Plus I have a bunch of money in the bank.


Fly by nights are hurting in my area because they was not ready


----------



## ziggo_2

*This is it!*



stumpy75 said:


> I asked this on 12/12/11. Bump....


This *is* what they are doing.

What, havent they done enough yet?





I only kid, i really do feel sorry for you guys going through this.


----------



## philwillmt

ziggo_2 said:


> This *is* what they are doing.
> 
> What, havent they done enough yet?



I was told by SpeeCo on January 23rd that they "got the last batch [racks, I assume] to test this week, have all of the components. We are working with the retailer on the roll out plan."


----------



## ziggo_2

philwillmt said:


> I was told by SpeeCo on January 23rd that they "got the last batch [racks, I assume] to test this week, have all of the components. We are working with the retailer on the roll out plan."



Ill believe it when I see it.....at the rate they are going it will be summer before we see anything happen.


----------



## Dozer Man




----------



## COUNTRY6543

Well Fellows, Sorry for disappearing for so long. There really hasn't been many new updates on this problem so I have just kinda been reading posts every couple days or so. Since last speaking to those that are familiar with me, I fixed my broke tooth rack and moved the cam stop ahead just a tiny bit and VaLa, no more problems. I don't run my machine full out, I think it's probable somewhere around 2/3 throttle. Have been talking to to local TSC and they told me whenever the parts come out they will get me the new parts I need and make it right. I can't even imagine how much wood I have split this month but I have learned to be carefull and not kick the B*^ch when she's down. I have still been in contact with the company and they still say, waiting on parts. I am completely convinced that the combination of cam stops, faulty racks and speed are all a compounding problem. All of them put together are a recipe for disaster. This machine was designed to fail from the beginning. Fix them all or beat your head against the wall. :bang:

Dozer: Gotta adjust that front cam stop. It changes things completely. It only takes a little.


----------



## CUCV

I messed around some more with my calculations comparing the SS and speedpro. I got the numbers to work out to 16 tons on the SS and 28 on the Speedpro using the same assumptions. I'm surprised Speedpro felt compelled to go for 28 tons when SS has a long history at 16 tons. The forces on the gear teeth are insane at 28 tons combined with a pinion speed that is to high its just asking for disaster. Per my rough calcs running the Speedpro at 2600ish rpm you get similar force as the SS, cool to hear so many are already having sucess doing just that!


----------



## philwillmt

*What does SpeeCo consider customer service???*

Am I the only one surprised and disappointed that SpeeCo has yet to make a formal effort to inform their SpeedPro customers of exactly what they are doing about the SpeedPro issues? One would think that if they value their customers, then they would be giving us formal, periodic updates along the way. The only time I hear from them is AFTER I email someone within their organization...and except for one Customer Service Representative, it usually takes several emails to get a response. Shouldn't they be coming to us? What's wrong with this picture???


----------



## Dozer Man

*Return and then buy what???*

I hate to become what we here on this speedpro thread have been battling for so long. I really hate to "bash" the splitter, and it's manufacturer, that I have been defending for all this time. I also know that the one thing about "customer service" that pixxes most "customers" off is a lack of personal contact. The customer needs and deserves to be "informed" as to what is happening to rectify there problems. 

I sometimes think that most of us here on this thread are using each other as a "support group". It lets us know that we are not alone in our problems and issues. Shxx, we've gone so far as to pretty much fix the dang things ourselves! 

With the help from some friends here on this thread, I've got a few good ideas (such as fabricating a "bolt on cross bracket" with a nut welded in the center of it to hold the adjusting bolt for a cam-stop, for one...and a smaller clutch pulley for another) that I think will definately improve this machine. I'm still just waiting to see just how far SpeeCo is going to go before I drop any more of my cash on the project. I wish they would hurry up and show there hand.

If I had the extra grand to spend on an SS, I might have done things different. Like throwing a big half split piece of green pin oak flat side down in the cradle...SIDEWAYS! Crank the motor to wfo and keep slamming it until this thing self destructs. After watching this thing violently disengage on a knotted piece of black walnut 8-10 times in a row, I don't think it would take too awfull long to see parts fly. But you know what, it would have been nice for all of us if SpeeCo would have done something like this BEFORE they sold them to us! 

After all that ranting...I still don't, for the most part, regret buying this thing. The ability to split wood with the speed of a kinetic splitter, and saving a grand, still outweighs the issues. Just wish I didn't feel so much like a big furry domesticated rodent. 

K...I'm done being a "SpeedPro Basher" !!! Today's project...bending the "factory installed non-adjustable" cam-stop forward just a little bit. Oh yeah, and then split another cord of wood too!


----------



## schaaed1

CUCV said:


> I messed around some more with my calculations comparing the SS and speedpro. I got the numbers to work out to 16 tons on the SS and 28 on the Speedpro using the same assumptions. I'm surprised Speedpro felt compelled to go for 28 tons when SS has a long history at 16 tons. The forces on the gear teeth are insane at 28 tons combined with a pinion speed that is to high its just asking for disaster.


That's closer to what I would have expected!! And those numbers would make sense with my analogy of running an Explorer into a brick wall at 70mph or the Expedition at 35mph.

I really wonder how many problems these units would have had ... if they were geared correctly? No different than anyhting else ... you start jacking up force, components will start breaking. If I threw a blower/supercharger on the wife's grocery getter, without changing any stock internal engine parts, it aint gonna last (but might be fun while it did, lol).



Dozer Man said:


> After all that ranting...I still don't, for the most part, regret buying this thing. The ability to split wood with the speed of a kinetic splitter, and saving a grand, still outweighs the issues. Just wish I didn't feel so much like a big furry domesticated rodent.


Get it geared down ... and I really think you will be fine. I still think you could turn the original clutch pulley down (making it into a stud shaft), and bore out a smaller pulley to fit. If that doesn't work, have someone weld the smaller pulley to the clutch face (old pulley ground off).

Also, interesting that the Speeco folks that were coming on here have gotten really, really quiet.:confused2: I wonder what's up with that? Maybe they actually tested the new racks and they are still failing? Maybe they are finally realizing that they need to slow things down? Hmmm ... if you think about it ... when we really started talking about the speed being the underlying issue, is about the time they stopped posting. Coincidence??


----------



## ziggo_2

Dozer Man said:


> I hate to become what we here on this speedpro thread have been battling for so long. I really hate to "bash" the splitter, and it's manufacturer, that I have been defending for all this time. I also know that the one thing about "customer service" that pixxes most "customers" off is a lack of personal contact. The customer needs and deserves to be "informed" as to what is happening to rectify there problems.
> 
> I sometimes think that most of us here on this thread are using each other as a "support group". It lets us know that we are not alone in our problems and issues. Shxx, we've gone so far as to pretty much fix the dang things ourselves!
> 
> With the help from some friends here on this thread, I've got a few good ideas (such as fabricating a "bolt on cross bracket" with a nut welded in the center of it to hold the adjusting bolt for a cam-stop, for one...and a smaller clutch pulley for another) that I think will definately improve this machine. I'm still just waiting to see just how far SpeeCo is going to go before I drop any more of my cash on the project. I wish they would hurry up and show there hand.
> 
> If I had the extra grand to spend on an SS, I might have done things different. Like throwing a big half split piece of green pin oak flat side down in the cradle...SIDEWAYS! Crank the motor to wfo and keep slamming it until this thing self destructs. After watching this thing violently disengage on a knotted piece of black walnut 8-10 times in a row, I don't think it would take too awfull long to see parts fly. But you know what, it would have been nice for all of us if SpeeCo would have done something like this BEFORE they sold them to us!
> 
> After all that ranting...I still don't, for the most part, regret buying this thing. The ability to split wood with the speed of a kinetic splitter, and saving a grand, still outweighs the issues. Just wish I didn't feel so much like a big furry domesticated rodent.
> 
> K...I'm done being a "SpeedPro Basher" !!! Today's project...bending the "factory installed non-adjustable" cam-stop forward just a little bit. Oh yeah, and then split another cord of wood too!




I dont have a speedpro so i cant fully understand your frustrations....but, I offer my woodpile to you to take out those frustrations.

I think its very suspicious that speeco is very hush hush now....like I said before you guys are better off fixing it yourselfs although id wait till they give you some free parts. if you can wait that long.


----------



## philwillmt

ziggo_2 said:


> I dont have a speedpro so i cant fully understand your frustrations....but, I offer my woodpile to you to take out those frustrations.
> 
> I think its very suspicious that speeco is very hush hush now....like I said before you guys are better off fixing it yourselfs although id wait till they give you some free parts. if you can wait that long.



Took my splitter over to a neighbors house today to split some wood for him. After splitting for a few minutes the ram stopped in a knotty piece of pine, and the flywheels never sped back up. Upon investigation, found that the mounting bolt and key to the clutch were gone! Luckily I found the key on the ground, and was able to get a bolt that worked from my neighbor to get it going again. I'm tired of babying this machine...seems there's always something going wrong. I'm on the verge of taking it back to TSC for a full refund! SpeeCo needs to get their act together!


----------



## ksfastman

*Speedpro*

It's obvious there are a bunch of issues, but if you're going to keep them...it seems the rack engagement/gear depth mesh is the first place to start. Wish Speedco would get going on this, because I really want one of these!


----------



## philwillmt

ksfastman said:


> It's obvious there are a bunch of issues, but if you're going to keep them...it seems the rack engagement/gear depth mesh is the first place to start. Wish Speedco would get going on this, because I really want one of these!



I forgot to mention that when I went to hook up my splitter to my 2" trailer ball for the first time today that it would not go on. Had to back the lock nut on the bottom of the coupler nearly all the way off and lube everything up before I could get the latch closed. It appears that the piece that snugs up under the bottom of the trailer ball may be too long. Even with the lock nut almost all the way off it was very hard to close the latch. I think SpeeCo may have been in too big of a hurry to get these splitters out on the market and were willing to sacrifice quality in an effort to get their share of the inertia splitter market. They may find themselves spending a lot of time trying to rebuild their reputation with the rest of their products if things don't change with the way they are handling the SpeedPro issues!


----------



## CUCV

Closer to an Explorer full of passengers at 30mph vs a Explorer with just a driver at 42mph...:msp_tongue:

The SS "special edition" with 100lb flywheels would be the Expedition.

I think the speed thing can be solve very easy by just running it slower or buying a clutch from SS, it would take to much time to turn down the pulley IMO.



schaaed1 said:


> That's closer to what I would have expected!! And those numbers would make sense with my analogy of running an Explorer into a brick wall at 70mph or the Expedition at 35mph.
> 
> QUOTE]


----------



## philwillmt

*Word of caution...*



ksfastman said:


> It's obvious there are a bunch of issues, but if you're going to keep them...it seems the rack engagement/gear depth mesh is the first place to start. Wish Speedco would get going on this, because I really want one of these!



If SpeeCo does come back out on the market with the SpeedPro splitter, I would wait several months before buying one to allow time for issues to show themselves. I would probably watch the SpeeCo customer reviews AND this forum to see what kind of issues people are having. I took a chance on being the first SpeedPro customer at my local TSC, and as it turns out I was also the last customer! I am glad I at least read up on them before buying one...at that time I had already seen some rack issue comments on the reviews. That's why I made the decision to purchase an extended warranty, which is the first time I have ever purchased or felt a need to purchase a warranty on anything. Looks like it will come in handy if I decide to keep this splitter after all.


----------



## mt.stalker

This kinetic splitter design is destined to fail anyhow. It's like revving your car in neutral , and slamming it into gear . Way too violent .


----------



## Dozer Man

mt.stalker said:


> This kinetic splitter design is destined to fail anyhow. It's like revving your car in neutral , and slamming it into gear . Way too violent .



A couple of years ago, I would have agread with you. But there are a LOT of SuperSplit owners out there that have proved that theory to be wrong. There's some 30 plus year old SS's out there with little more than minor maintainence issues in that time.


----------



## philwillmt

mt.stalker said:


> This kinetic splitter design is destined to fail anyhow. It's like revving your car in neutral , and slamming it into gear . Way too violent .



I completely disagree...I think it is actually a very simplistic, yet ingenious design. The first time I saw one I thought "why didn't I think of that?" Having said that, it does need quality parts and proper engineering to work correctly and have a long service life. In a sense, it is just like revving your car up in neutral and throwing it into gear, but on a much smaller scale, and with much less stored energy and resistance. Like Dozer Man said, there are other brands of kinetic splitters that have been in service for many years. Again, it comes down to good quality and a properly designed machine. Get it right, and it should end up being a good investment with many years of service. Go sparingly on quality and prematurely put a product on the market and, well......


----------



## mt.stalker

Dozer Man said:


> A couple of years ago, I would have agread with you. But there are a LOT of SuperSplit owners out there that have proved that theory to be wrong. There's some 30 plus year old SS's out there with little more than minor maintainence issues in that time.



Must be the $1000 extra (tsc vs SS ) is all about the engineering and quality . Probably the TSC uses Chinese steel . Lol . Seriously , the pinion and "rail" gear must be much harder on the SS.


----------



## Dozer Man

*getting hard to defend*



mt.stalker said:


> Must be the $1000 extra (tsc vs SS ) is all about the engineering and quality . Probably the TSC uses Chinese steel . Lol . Seriously , the pinion and "rail" gear must be much harder on the SS.



There are alot of good parts on these things. Quality control was lack luster though. The design "theoreticly" is very sound, speeco just needs to step up and do what it takes to make it right. It's getting hard to defend these things lately. But...when they work, they work good. 

Excluding the rack, if it even needs replaced, I can probly fix this thing for under $100 for a new DR or SS clutch pulley to slow things down. If speeco doesn't address the "cam adjustment" issue, I actually thought about making a "retro-kit" that I could sell (maybe a reverse handle kit too). Probably be able to make it for under $10 material and labor once I perfect the design. Take a piece of 1.5"x1" angle and weld tabs on each end so you can mount it just in front of the cam (perpendicular to the beam). It will have a nut welded in the center with a bolt and lock nut for easily adjusting the backlash. All you'd have to do is drill four holes to mount it and cut/grind the stock cam stop out of the way. 

But again, I am still waiting on speeco to do what they are going to do. For a $100, I'll give them some more time. Who knows, maybe they will do things right. opcorn:

Philwillmt, try some "form-a-gasket" on that clutch bolt. Pull the bolt and dab the threads with blue, black, or orange formagasket. Tighten, wipe off excess, and let set 24 hrs to cure. That should hold it yet not be so perminent as lock-tite. Mine has backed out a little once, but now I check it just about every time it goes out. I'm gonna do the formagasket trick real soon though.


----------



## philwillmt

Dozer Man said:


> Philwillmt, try some "form-a-gasket" on that clutch bolt. Pull the bolt and dab the threads with blue, black, or orange formagasket. Tighten, wipe off excess, and let set 24 hrs to cure. That should hold it yet not be so perminent as lock-tite. Mine has backed out a little once, but now I check it just about every time it goes out. I'm gonna do the formagasket trick real soon though.



Dozer Man,

It won't happen again...I used blue (medium strength) Lock Tite on the new bolt. I'll use a little heat on it if it's hard to remove...I will need to take it out when I go to replace the clutch with the smaller one that SpeeCo is going to supply us with!


----------



## Dozer Man

philwillmt said:


> Dozer Man,
> 
> It won't happen again...I used blue (medium strength) Lock Tite on the new bolt. I'll use a little heat on it if it's hard to remove...I will need to take it out when I go to replace the clutch with the smaller one that SpeeCo is going to supply us with!



Philwillmt,

Sounds like a plan!! ::thumbsup:: opcorn:


----------



## BSD

Well, I dropped my machine off for warranty work yesterday. We blew the brass wear plate off again. I had attempted to fix it once before and that was the final straw yesterday. took it apart and found 2 of the 4 bearings destroyed too, one just fell apart, roller pins everywhere and the races seperated, the other was missing about 1/8" of the outer race. Also the carb recently started leaking. all this with 38 hours on the machine. I inspected the pinion rack, which has not shown any increase in damage or wear since I started regularly greasing the hell out of it with axle grease.

I dropped it off after I called Speeco and spoke to a guy named Shaun who was very familiar with the machines and the problems we're experiencing. I poked and prodded about the new racks but all he could tell me was they've been testing new small lots of them but he had no information on how the testing was going. No ETA on distribution of new racks.

I brought up the issue with the speed that the machine runs, the size of the clutch pulley, and he said they hadn't heard much feedback about that area of it. He advised me to send an email to him describing what problems i've had, what we've been doing to prolong life of the racks, and talk about the engine speed/clutch issue. he said it would be easier to pass along to the other engineers. I will keep his email address out of this thread, but will share it with people if they have legitimate emails they want to send to him.


----------



## Como

You would have thought SpeeCo have at least one DR and SS?


----------



## Rob1276

Like every thing else in this country make it cheap make it fast sell it fast and make up excuses later when it don't perform maybe someday we may wake up and start building things here again. 

I haven't read much in this thread but from what I have read I have seen china mentioned a couple times no sense in reading any further I could totally be out of line with it but I doubt it


----------



## Dozer Man

*wow*



BSD said:


> Well, I dropped my machine off for warranty work yesterday. We blew the brass wear plate off again. I had attempted to fix it once before and that was the final straw yesterday. took it apart and found 2 of the 4 bearings destroyed too, one just fell apart, roller pins everywhere and the races seperated, the other was missing about 1/8" of the outer race. Also the carb recently started leaking. all this with 38 hours on the machine. I inspected the pinion rack, which has not shown any increase in damage or wear since I started regularly greasing the hell out of it with axle grease.
> 
> I dropped it off after I called Speeco and spoke to a guy named Shaun who was very familiar with the machines and the problems we're experiencing. I poked and prodded about the new racks but all he could tell me was they've been testing new small lots of them but he had no information on how the testing was going. No ETA on distribution of new racks.
> 
> I brought up the issue with the speed that the machine runs, the size of the clutch pulley, and he said they hadn't heard much feedback about that area of it. He advised me to send an email to him describing what problems i've had, what we've been doing to prolong life of the racks, and talk about the engine speed/clutch issue. he said it would be easier to pass along to the other engineers. I will keep his email address out of this thread, but will share it with people if they have legitimate emails they want to send to him.



BSD,
Did they give you any eta on your repairs?? I pulled my ramhead earlier and found the retaining screws starting to loosen. I needed to split some wood so I just tightened them until I could do some pm. Did the pm the other day with just over an hour of splitting since I had tightend them up. Found them starting to back out again so I pulled them, cleaned them and lock-tited them. Sorry about your woes but thanks for the heads up. I did notice that the bearings were turning very hard also. Played around with washers and spacers and torque until I got them tight yet still turning properly. Great, now they spin so will that lower there life span?? Any thought of returning, or would they even consider it now?

As for speeco...wow...I hope they know if anyone googles "speedpro reviews", AS is what comes up.

I also made an adjustment to the front cam stop (guessing about 1/16" to 3/32" forward movement)...so far so good...thanks to Jester and Country for that heads-up too!!! I had a knotted piece of black walnut that stuck to the wedge. It kept disengaging on it repeatedly, so I thought this to be the time to do the pm and fix all the things I could.


----------



## BSD

shaun told me he had all parts for the wear plate, base plate, bearings ready to go out to the dealer/repair shop that's doing the work. the rack is the only thing not ready, which I don't need at the moment.


----------



## schaaed1

I do not believe for one minute that they are oblivious to the speed issue. The speed issue has been talked about hear for some time ... and the discussions even had some science behind it. Does anyone really think Speeco is not reading this thread?? Dang strait they are. Heck there were even one or two Speeco folks that were posting on this thread (several pages back).

Nice as they might be on the phone, they are starting to blow smoke up your ... well you get the idea.


----------



## philwillmt

Rob1276 said:


> Like every thing else in this country make it cheap make it fast sell it fast and make up excuses later when it don't perform maybe someday we may wake up and start building things here again.
> 
> I haven't read much in this thread but from what I have read I have seen china mentioned a couple times no sense in reading any further I could totally be out of line with it but I doubt it



Both statements couldn't be more correct!!! As quickly as you (and numerous others) caught on to that, one has to wonder why SpeeCo isn't admittedly seeing it???


----------



## Naked Arborist

philwillmt said:


> Both statements couldn't be more correct!!! As quickly as you (and numerous others) caught on to that, one has to wonder why SpeeCo isn't admittedly seeing it???



Seeing? lol. Speedco is blind in one eye and can't see out the other...:msp_sleep:

:msp_scared:


opcorn:


----------



## Como

Perhaps they are having problems logging on with their Chinese Computer or I Pad or I Phone?


----------



## lumberjackmoe

*Spoke to Shawn today*

I spoke with Shawn today and he put his boss on the phone. I asked if I could return my Speedpro for a refund and he said yes. I told him I would wait the 2 weeks for the parts to repair my splitter. He returned my call after finding out they told him they are in final testing and it will be 2 more weeks. As of now they are saying the issues are the rack, engagement rod, and engagement device. 
I mentioned the reverse handle and he said he looked at it on this site. I suggested the reverse handle and he acted like it wasn't up to him. I will take one of those reverse handles after the dust settles.


----------



## lumberjackmoe

*The speed*

I forgot to mention that Speeco also mentioned the speed of the Kohler engine. They are going to contact Kohler and have them change things on the engine so that full throttle is about 2200 rpm's. I told Speeco that I operate my engine speed at 1500 rpm's and it splits just fine.


----------



## schaaed1

lumberjackmoe said:


> I forgot to mention that Speeco also mentioned the speed of the Kohler engine. They are going to contact Kohler and have them change things on the engine so that full throttle is about 2200 rpm's. I told Speeco that I operate my engine speed at 1500 rpm's and it splits just fine.


LOL (not at you), If I remember correctly I thought most said (including the SS guys) that they were, already, only running there machines at around 2300-2500rpm (most clutches engage @2200ish). Even at that speed they were still seeing the issues (on the Speeco). Take a SS and a Speeco running the same engine RPM and the Speeco flywheels are still almost turning double that of the SS machine (based on comparative measurements that are contained this thread).


----------



## philwillmt

lumberjackmoe said:


> I forgot to mention that Speeco also mentioned the speed of the Kohler engine. They are going to contact Kohler and have them change things on the engine so that full throttle is about 2200 rpm's. I told Speeco that I operate my engine speed at 1500 rpm's and it splits just fine.



Lumberjackmoe,

I'm surprised your clutch engages enough at 1500rpm...the ram on mine stops way too easily at anything less than 2000rpm. I've found that the optimal speed for mine is around 2600rpm...at that speed, the ram seldom stops, and when it does it stops properly (i.e. the clutch slips and the engine begins to load up until I manually disengage the rack). It's good that yours will work at that lower speed...the slower the better in my opinion, at least to a degree.


----------



## Big Radio

Naked Arborist said:


> Seeing? lol. Speedco is blind in one eye and can't see out the other...:msp_sleep:
> 
> :msp_scared:
> 
> 
> opcorn:



OK,it's Speedpro or Speeco pick one.I don't think you've said it right in this entire thread LOL.


----------



## CUCV

Does anyone have one within an hour of Hampton Beach, NH I can come try?

I think the comment is funny about Speedpro changing the Kohler engine speed, I think the OEM should just change the clutch pulley diameter but having a service recall to have all speedpro owners come in and have the high speed idle stop turned back is way cheaper


----------



## schaaed1

CUCV said:


> `.... but having a service recall to have all speedpro owners come in and have the high speed idle stop turned back is way cheaper



And then they can have a recall again, because the clutches won't engage.:msp_thumbup:


----------



## Wood Doctor

*After Reading all of This Thread's Posts...*

... I'm going to really enjoy using my hydraulic log splitter this spring even more to break down 20 cords of ash that I brought in, now resting in rounds. It works very well. Thank's guys.


----------



## nixon

Wood Doctor said:


> ... I'm going to really enjoy using my hydraulic log splitter this spring even more to break down 20 cords of ash that I brought in, now resting in rounds. It works very well. Thank's guys.



Be that as it may, it's sad to see folks put down their hard won cash in good faith ,only to find that the product that they purchased was very flawed. Even worse is the fact that Speeco has kept them in the dark about a possible fix .


----------



## Wood Doctor

nixon said:


> Be that as it may, it's sad to see folks put down their hard won cash in good faith ,only to find that the product that they purchased was very flawed. Even worse is the fact that Speeco has kept them in the dark about a possible fix .


+1. Speeco usually stands behind its products. Sorry to see all this trash. Reminds me of the Chevy Volt stopping dead in the Lincoln Tunnel.


----------



## nysparkie

*Ultimate Kinetic Splitter - No Gas - No racks - No issues*

Thought I would share. Hell I could use this just as well as any splitter. Talk about GREEN!

Ingmars klyv - YouTube


----------



## Wood Doctor

nysparkie said:


> Thought I would share. Hell I could use this just as well as any splitter. Talk about GREEN!
> 
> Ingmars klyv - YouTube


That's a dandy, even if he was splitting easy-to-split maple and avoiding crotch. Note that the spring is actually working against the splitting force. If he could disengage that big spring somehow before he drops the weight, he'd have more power yet. But, that complicates the design a bunch.

Also, if he lodges that beast into a stubborn big elm or hickory round, then what?


----------



## nysparkie

*Stuck Elm*



Wood Doctor said:


> That's a dandy, even if he was splitting easy-to-split maple and avoiding crotch. Note that the spring is actually working against the splitting force. If he could disengage that big spring somehow before he drops the weight, he'd have more power yet. But, that complicates the design a bunch.
> 
> Also, if he lodges that beast into a stubborn big elm or hickory round, then what?



It looks like he just lifts, sometimes with the stump, the arm and just hammers it down again. I suppose a 3d or 4th time if necessary.
Otherwise, I dunno.


----------



## neelix

*The Future of SpeedPro*

I have to ask...are they done for good or will they release an improved model in the near future? 

The DR is getting my attention but the ability to tow the SpeedPro is making me wait.


----------



## Como

Lack of money is making me wait.


----------



## Dozer Man

neelix said:


> I have to ask...are they done for good or will they release an improved model in the near future?
> 
> The DR is getting my attention but the ability to tow the SpeedPro is making me wait.



Neelix, 
When I talked to speeco a while back, they assured me that they were in the kinetic business to stay. With "new models" (notice the plural form) coming out this year...but they also said they would have the new parts out in two weeks too. 

So... opcorn: 

I have to admit, it is nice to hitch it to the truck and tow it to the woodpile. 

Fyi... Since I've done all the repairs, fixes and adjustments mentioned in this thread, I've not had the first misfire! She stalls like she should. Just release the engagement handle and hit 'er again!

Thanks to all!!


----------



## TFPace

Dozer Man said:


> Neelix,
> When I talked to speeco a while back, they assured me that they were in the kinetic business to stay. With "new models" (notice the plural form) coming out this year...but they also said they would have the new parts out in two weeks too.
> 
> So... opcorn:
> 
> I have to admit, it is nice to hitch it to the truck and tow it to the woodpile.




Dozer, I'm not holding my breath...are you?:msp_smile:


----------



## KiwiBro

This thread is stalking the 800 post count. A better disenchanted choir DR and SS couldn't wish or pay for. Onya Speeco. There may be worse ways to damage the brand than this continuing saga but this must make a greatest hits collection surely?
So, out with then...who's being paid by DR or SS to keep this thread rolling? :msp_biggrin:

I wonder what Blount make of all this, or if they even care about the potential damage to their investment (and I use that term loosely), seeing how they gobbled up Speeco ownership a while ago.

It would also be interesting to see whether TSC and/or the market in general can be arsed with any future Speeco flywheel offerings and who of those responsible for this fiasco manage to keep their jobs. Or perhaps Speeco are infected with the same epidemic sweeping across large tracts of society - CRD (collective responsibility disorder). You know the one: every major screw up is investigated by pocket-lining puppets and deemed to be the collective responsibility of the whole group so that no self-protecting blame shifter is liable, and the underwriters of last resort (consumers, or as the case may be, taxpayers) end up footing the bill.


----------



## philwillmt

*Opted out!*

Well, as of today I am no longer a SpeedPro owner...I took it back for a refund. I simply got tired of waiting for a resolution to SpeeCo's problems. It's going to cost me a fair amount more for a different brand, but I want a machine that I don't feel like I have to baby along in hopes that something won't break! I can honestly say and feel good about the fact that I gave the SpeedPro a more than fair chance. I feel that I went above and beyond in an effort to get the machine to perform the way it should have. The delay in a remedy, along with no follow-ups from SpeeCo were the straws that broke the camel's back. I have enjoyed sharing stories and ideas with all of you folks, and I sincerely hope that SpeeCo comes through for all of the SpeedPro owners out there. You all paid good money for their product, and you deserve a quality, trouble free, long-lasting machine! Good luck to all...I will continue to follow this thread to see what happens.

Take care,

P.Williamson


----------



## Dozer Man

*Nope !!!*



TFPace said:


> Dozer, I'm not holding my breath...are you?:msp_smile:



I quit doing that last year!! :taped::smile2:


----------



## jhellwig

I wandered into tsc the other day and looked at the splitters and noticed that they no longer had this splitter. I can't say as that it surprises me. When I first saw them at tsc the first thing I noticed is the cheap chines motor and the fact that the drive belt was no where near aligned with the flywheel. It wasn't even like the belts were misaligned the same way on each splitter. They were cocked off all different directions, some even hitting the plastic shroud.


----------



## philwillmt

jhellwig said:


> I wandered into tsc the other day and looked at the splitters and noticed that they no longer had this splitter. I can't say as that it surprises me. When I first saw them at tsc the first thing I noticed is the cheap chines motor and the fact that the drive belt was no where near aligned with the flywheel. It wasn't even like the belts were misaligned the same way on each splitter. They were cocked off all different directions, some even hitting the plastic shroud.



The clutch being out of alignment is an assembly issue...someone simply didn't take the time to get it right. I'm not sure what plastic shroud you are referring to, as there was no plastic shroud on my machine.


----------



## jhellwig

I thought the one that covered the flywheel was plastic. The point I was making was that it looked like a cheap piece of junk.


----------



## philwillmt

jhellwig said:


> I thought the one that covered the flywheel was plastic. The point I was making was that it looked like a cheap piece of junk.



While there is some merit to your statement, believe it or not the flywheel cover is metal!


----------



## Dozer Man

jhellwig said:


> I thought the one that covered the flywheel was plastic. The point I was making was that it looked like a cheap piece of junk.



Welcome to _page 53_ of this thread.


----------



## Hddnis

Looks like Speeco is running the parts out of china. Getting something fixed often means re-negotiating the contract, which means more money, and it always takes time. When the new and improved (properly made) parts are finally done they load them on a slow boat.

Really was hoping to see this fixed by now. Being able to go pick up a towable kinetic splitter for a decent price is appealing to me. (long as it works)




Mr. HE


----------



## CRThomas

*American made*

I have bought all my equipment from Ramsplitter.com and have never had a failure of the equipment. I have a lot and it runs a lot year round. Not part time. Later


----------



## TFPace

*Ramsplitters kinetic machine??????????*



CRThomas said:


> I have bought all my equipment from Ramsplitter.com and have never had a failure of the equipment. I have a lot and it runs a lot year round. Not part time. Later



CRThomas, where does ramsplitter offer a kinetic machine? That is what this thread is all about, not hydraulic machines.


----------



## CRThomas

*Don't know*



TFPace said:


> CRThomas, where does ramsplitter offer a kinetic machine? That is what this thread is all about, not hydraulic machines.


I do not know I only use hyd. Because my business has to be reliable I can't chance new type machines. Have been read after you fellows so I never looked in to a kinetic machine. I am 71 and I don't need a machine that fast. Sorry I bothered you folks later


----------



## KiwiBro

TFPace said:


> CRThomas, where does ramsplitter offer a kinetic machine? That is what this thread is all about, not hydraulic machines.


With respect, I consider his reference to 'American made' relevant and certainly no less so than posts from those with non TSC made splitters, regardless of whether their splitter is kinetic, water jet, laser beams, psychic wedge energy or any other darn flavour of splitter.
Let's face it, one can only flog a dead horse for so long before it loses value, so shifting a little sideways to relevant issues is not to be discouraged, in my not so humble opinion.


----------



## KiwiBro

CRThomas said:


> I do not know I only use hyd. Because my business has to be reliable I can't chance new type machines. Have been read after you fellows so I never looked in to a kinetic machine. I am 71 and I don't need a machine that fast. Sorry I bothered you folks later


You'll find Super split has been around for donkey's years doing kinetic splitters. It's just these Speeco and DR splitters that are new kids on the block. So I'd not consider kinetic splitters "new types"s such, rather Speeco a "new supplier" of this old and proven type of splitter. It's obvious from this thread that Speeco haven't proven their competency with such a splitter machine though.


----------



## Como

KiwiBro said:


> With respect, I consider his reference to 'American made' relevant and certainly no less so than posts from those with non TSC made splitters, regardless of whether their splitter is kinetic, water jet, laser beams, psychic wedge energy or any other darn flavour of splitter.
> Let's face it, one can only flog a dead horse for so long before it loses value, so shifting a little sideways to relevant issues is not to be discouraged, in my not so humble opinion.



American assembled maybe.


----------



## KiwiBro

Como said:


> American assembled maybe.


We have the same confusion here with all sorts of things. I can't recall what the % of local content has to be before it can be called NZ Made. there is a disappointingly perpetual line of marketeers willing to obfuscate the origin to their advantage with weasel phrases like (in big lettering) "assembled right here" (in fine print) "made from local and imported ingredients". Such is globalisation. There used to be a TV program here that dug really deep into the origins of simple everyday products and it was insane how many different countries were involved before they hit the shelves.


----------



## TFPace

*Kinetic*

Kiwi,

My gripe with CRThomas was that he's giving a link to a company that doesn't even build a kinetic splitter. Hydraulic splitters are great but have zero application with respect the problems the Speecp machine is having. 

Goodness knows you have been a frequent contributor to this thread. Have you purchased a kinetic splitter yet? If so, which machine did you buy? Ocean freight to NZ can't be that slow. How about the loader grapple attachment? I look forward to your reviews of your new purchases:hmm3grin2orange:

Cheers,

Tom


----------



## KiwiBro

TFPace said:


> Kiwi,
> I look forward to your reviews of your new purchases:hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Tom



they're coming, with pictures and a list of "what I learned not to do".
I'm up to my eyeballs in new equipment purchases and can't wait for most of it to arrive and get put to work. Lord knows my bank account can;t wait either...b/c that is looking pretty darn grim. they say it's always darkest before dawn, so here's hoping the tide of $ starts turning real soon.


----------



## BSD

well my parts were allegedly overnighted on valentines day. apparently speeco had a hard time tracking down some bearings. I sourced some myself and then they called to say they had found some.

The bearings are very odd sized, my supplier had never seen one and had a hard time finding one since the number "YFB SS39" doesn't cross to anything. After taking some measurements and checking about a dozen books we found these are good numbers to use or cross to. These were numbers for the sealed, fully caged bearings which would be the strongest option. We don't know if the old ones are caged or not. Anyways, if I have problems with them again i'm going to order a set of one of them below.

NART 10 VUUR
NATV10PP
MCYR-10-S


----------



## Cedar-Acres

800 posts! This is the longest thread I have seen.

I was seriously interested in getting a Speedpro, glad I waited to see if they held up. Hope they get the problems fixed and start selling them again. Maybe things will be settled by late summer and I can get one then.


----------



## Cedar-Acres

I guess in all fairness I should sincerely thank those early adopters who took the risk and tried out the Speedpro so the rest of us could see if it measured up to the promises of the manufacturer. They, unfortunately, were burned and are still waiting for some sort of reconciliation from Speeco. I have been lurking here almost daily since the start of this thread and have been astounded at the flaws found in the Speedpro and dazzled by the knowledge and skill demonstrated by the members of this forum. 

I know Speeco has (had) an excellent reputation for quality and customer service, I own a Speeco 22 ton hydraulic splitter and am very happy with it. I just want the speed the Speedpro offers so I can spend less time in the wood lot. Until the Speedpro is perfected I will just have to keep plodding along with the old hydro.

So, THANKS GUYS, for all your effort in the initial shakedown of the Speedpro!!!


----------



## Dozer Man

*Thank You*



Cedar-Acres said:


> I guess in all fairness I should sincerely thank those early adopters who took the risk and tried out the Speedpro so the rest of us could see if it measured up to the promises of the manufacturer. They, unfortunately, were burned and are still waiting for some sort of reconciliation from Speeco. I have been lurking here almost daily since the start of this thread and have been astounded at the flaws found in the Speedpro and dazzled by the knowledge and skill demonstrated by the members of this forum.
> 
> I know Speeco has (had) an excellent reputation for quality and customer service, I own a Speeco 22 ton hydraulic splitter and am very happy with it. I just want the speed the Speedpro offers so I can spend less time in the wood lot. Until the Speedpro is perfected I will just have to keep plodding along with the old hydro.
> 
> So, THANKS GUYS, for all your effort in the initial shakedown of the Speedpro!!!



Cedar-Aces,

It's a nice change of pace for someone to come to this thread with optimism and some appreciation for the people who have been involved from the beginning. We SpeedPro owners are all striving for the same thing, a dependable product at a fair price. The same as any other consumer of any other product. Now with that being said, I wonder how long it will take for a negative comment from one of the ignorant "bashers".

We use this forum as a way to communicate with each other so we can discuss ideas and...well...frankly sometimes just vent our frustrations. Some of us, for whatever reasons, have decided to follow this thing through to the end, aggrevations and all. For what? Well for me, I can give you a 1000 pretty good reason. I don't have an extra grand to put into an SS right now, and I definately can't go back to splitting in slow motion. And for those out there who have given up on this machine for whatever reasons, I don't blame you one bit and sincerely wish you best of luck in your next purchase. Your input was and still is greatly appreciated. 

Thank you Cedar-Acres for your positive outlook, it is greatly appreciated.


----------



## KiwiBro

Cedar-Acres said:


> I was seriously interested in getting a Speedpro, glad I waited to see if they held up.


 ditto. I also thank the early adopters on the bleeding edge. I would have been one of them had I resided in USA, but our remoteness adds a definite layer of conservatism b/c basically if we buy from USA, we are doing so without a guarantee in most cases b/c of shipping costs and delays.


----------



## Cedar-Acres

KiwiBro, I understand your situation. In my case I had to exercise an extreme amount of self control since I have a local TSC and was able to see and lay hands on a SpeedPro in person. I really-really wanted to buy one but could not reconcile the risk associated with buying into a brand new untested product of this type. There was also the resistance of the "Budget Committee" at home who wanted to know why I needed another splitter when I had a perfectly good one already. I finally heeded the "too good to be true" warning flag in my head and looked for some actual user experience on the web. That brought me to this thread. I guess you know the rest of the story...


----------



## philwillmt

Dozer Man said:


> Cedar-Aces,
> 
> It's a nice change of pace for someone to come to this thread with optimism and some appreciation for the people who have been involved from the beginning. We SpeedPro owners are all striving for the same thing, a dependable product at a fair price. The same as any other consumer of any other product. Now with that being said, I wonder how long it will take for a negative comment from one of the ignorant "bashers".
> 
> We use this forum as a way to communicate with each other so we can discuss ideas and...well...frankly sometimes just vent our frustrations. Some of us, for whatever reasons, have decided to follow this thing through to the end, aggrevations and all. For what? Well for me, I can give you a 1000 pretty good reason. I don't have an extra grand to put into an SS right now, and I definately can't go back to splitting in slow motion. And for those out there who have given up on this machine for whatever reasons, I don't blame you one bit and sincerely wish you best of luck in your next purchase. Your input was and still is greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thank you Cedar-Acres for your positive outlook, it is greatly appreciated.



I agree Dozer Man...well said!


----------



## stever

*This is what Speeco said:*

Steve,

Though we still do not have a re-release date, I am being told that the parts testing is going well. We should have more information in before the end of February.

Regards,


Shaun Stinnett
Customer Service Representative 
303-279-5544 (Main)
800-525-8322 (x1147)
303-278-3432 (Fax)
[email protected]
SpeeCo Inc. Farming accessories and tools, log splitters, post hole diggers and custom manufacturing.


----------



## philwillmt

stever said:


> Steve,
> 
> Though we still do not have a re-release date, I am being told that the parts testing is going well. We should have more information in before the end of February.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> 
> Shaun Stinnett
> Customer Service Representative
> 303-279-5544 (Main)
> 800-525-8322 (x1147)
> 303-278-3432 (Fax)
> [email protected]
> SpeeCo Inc. Farming accessories and tools, log splitters, post hole diggers and custom manufacturing.



Days become weeks become months become years! Well...hopefully not years!


----------



## CUCV

I was hoping Speedpro could get their act together but I just ordered my 3rd Supersplit. The 3rd machine will be a project machine so I'm not tinkering on a machine that I need to make firewood. Definitely a tough nut to crack buying a SS for fun, but I'm really happy I will have 3 red machines in the yard. (I've put everything I can think of to sell up on Ebay and Craigslist) A speedpro would have been sweet at near half the cost. My plans are for 100lb flywheels, diesel engine and multiple wedges.


----------



## lumberjackmoe

Dozer Man, I might take you up on one of those reverse handles. Is it like the one that BSD put on his? If either of you guys want to make me one let me know. My email address is [email protected] When we get these fixed I might put one on. I like the one BSD put on his. 
I spoke to David, Shaun's boss and he told me on Feb the 8th that they are in final testing and parts are soon to be released. He felt 2 weeks from the 8th. I just spoke with David this morning and he said the parts ( he said 5 different ones. The Rack, the engagement device, bearings, and the spring plate, and he couldn't remember the 5th one ) are going to be released very soon. He said that they want to make sure it is right.
Shaun and David are telling me that the warranty will go into effect for the 1 year again from the time of t completion of repairs.
Dozer Man, I don't know if you remember, I am from Bloomington, IN.


----------



## TFPace

*Contact source*

Here's my gripe with Speeco. Why haven't they contacted the owners and let us know about these mods? If it weren't for this forum I would know absolutely zero about the problems,

When I talk with Speeco they are first class and point on but I registered my machines on-line like most people do and I would expect some sort of acknowledgment .

Some companies don't notify their customer base of problems until the owners machine fails. This may be Blount viewpoint, if so, I disagree. Like someone mentioned earlier this thread has > 800 post. 

Thanks for listening to my rant!

Tom


----------



## philwillmt

TFPace said:


> Here's my gripe with Speeco. Why haven't they contacted the owners and let us know about these mods? If it weren't for this forum I would know absolutely zero about the problems,
> 
> When I talk with Speeco they are first class and point on but I registered my machines on-line like most people do and I would expect some sort of acknowledgment .
> 
> Some companies don't notify their customer base of problems until the owners machine fails. This may be Blount viewpoint, if so, I disagree. Like someone mentioned earlier this thread has > 800 post.
> 
> Thanks for listening to my rant!
> 
> Tom



Tom,

We feel your pain...see post #739 & #740.

Good luck!


----------



## philwillmt

pops21 said:


> Well I just got back from tractor supply and found out the speedpro has a RECALL. They pulled the display to the back and were told not to sell another one till further notice. I read the recall paper they had printed off and it had something to do with the teeth being to small on the ram. It said right on the paper to offer FULL refund on ALL speedpro's sold. The manager said he saw this comming. He said too many customers mentioned after seeing the video that it could really hurt someone with the speed and got a hydro instead.
> 
> We ended up getting a 22T huskee.:msp_biggrin:



This was post #304, dated 11/08/11...STILL NO PARTS! How many SpeedPro owners have even heard from SpeeCo since 11/08/11? I never heard from them until I initiated the call...much of the reason I am no longer a SpeedPro owner! I hope the rest of you have a better experience...I guess I'm just too impatient when it comes to that kind of non-sense! I paid good money for my machine just like everyone else did, and expected the issues to be dealt with in a much more timely manner!


----------



## BSD

well, i got my machine back with a brand new head, wear plates and bearings. only problem is they forgot to hook up the return springs, so I have to go take it apart and put 2 longer bolts in there right from the start :bang:

it'll be nice to get this machine running again, we've got about 10 cords of logs and chunks piled up on the deck that need to be processed.


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## TFPace

*Clutch questions*

I have not used my Speedpro in months and decided to split some cherry that a sawmill customer left me.

I finally was able to see how the clutch failed to properly work. I was splitting the forked part of the cherry... 18" in diameter and everything was going along OK. After a second or third cycle the ram got stuck out on the end of its stroke. This happen when the block of wood raised up and placed a downward force on the ram. This force prohibited the ram from retracted. I was expecting the clutch to start slipping:msp_confused: :hmm3grin2orange: It didn't so here I am trying to pull the block free from the wedge/ram. This problem occurred 3X while trying to split this mess of a crotch.

Otherwise, the machine split great.I recall BSD mentioning the need to grease/lube the rack. I pulled it out as far as it would go and pumped globs of grease on my hand and smeared the teeth full of grease. I need to take a picture the build up on the stainless steel wear plate. I don't know if I need to oil the underside of the ram assembly with some PB blaster or silicone and see if that will help.

Back to a clutch question, aren't some of you guys lubing the inside of the clutch housing? When the machine is at idle does your machines clutch disengage or is it engaged allowing the flywheel to turn. My machine is the later. The flywheels always turn. I find find this odd and guess the clutch may need some attention too.

Thanks guys!

Tom


----------



## Hddnis

I don't have the same machine you do but every centrifugal clutch I've seen won't engage until somewhere in the 1800-2200 rpm range.


If you leave the switch off and just pull the starter rope does it turn the flywheels?




Mr. HE


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## Dozer Man

*Clutch Lube*

The only reason I lubed my clutch is because someone in here said that Paul @ SS recommended it. It made sense to do so because at that time we were looking for a way to stop/deter the violent disengagement issue. By lubing the inside of the clutch, you are creating a "cushion" as the clutch will disengage easier. I found that once you spray the clutch with WD40 it slipped excessively until I revved the engine substantially. At that point it had "slung" excess lube and started gripping as it should. Will i do it again?? Yes I will. I think it helps somewhat. Especially after performing all the other "fixes" in this thread. I still haven't had a "violent disengagement" since, and the clutch now stalls like it should. Recovery time is lengthened with lube, but only because I am running at low RPM.

Edit: yes I will lube the clutch again, but only after a few cord. 

As for the idle question, my flywheels keep spinning after I've put machine back to idle. But they are only coasting. Try splitting wood after you put machine back to idle, it will stop flywheels pretty easy and they will not recover any rpm as the engine is below the engagement rpm. Other than the excessive size of the drive pulley I am pleased with the clutch. But fwiw... my mechanical skills are limited and only a product of necessity, not by trade.


----------



## Dozer Man

*Repairs Starting Soon*

Talked to Shaun @ Speeco today. He said they are getting things set up with there repair shops to start shipping parts and doing repairs. From what I understand, they are replacing the rack assembly, engagement cam-mechanism, and the engagement rod. I'm sure there are other parts involved also. They are not replacing the clutch assembly, but from what I understand they are working with kohler on what sounds like a throttle stop which will reduce the engine to approximately 3000rpm. (I still want a new clutch, but it is nice splitting 2-3 cord per tank of gas as I'm only running at approx. 2500-2700 rpm) 

From what I understand, _when our repairs are made...that is when our 1 year warranty will start_. 

Time will tell for sure, but it sounds like they are trying to make it right.


----------



## COUNTRY6543

*repairs*

Dozer:

Got the same call yesterday from Shaun. He told me that he was going to call my local service center and send the parts and all I had to do was take it in. I am getting a new rack and engagement system and also told me about slowing the motor down. Funny I already slowed it down and am running 'bout the same as everyone else. This oughta be interesting to see what they have came up with. Kinda funny the first thing he asked me was if I still had the machine, I laughed and told him yes, I waited it out. See what happens.


----------



## COUNTRY6543

Well I got my machine back from the shop the other day. I asked him what he replaced and he told me the rack, engagement rod and the cam. I started it up and immediately noticed he had also changed the throttle stop. It is running much slower now at full throttle. About what I had set it when I was using it. I assume around 3000 rpm. I ran a few bare passes just to make sure that it was going to work alright. I haven't had time to tear into and look at all the replacement peices and see the difference or run any wood through it. I will probable get to that mid-week or so. I will give an update on what I find. Got a little preocupied. Went to the gun show and found me a new toy. Kel-Tec KSG shotgun, for anyone that cares. WOW it rocks.


----------



## BSD

good to know the new racks are out. i'd been 'holding back' slitting some nasty pieces just in case. didn't want to shear off any teeth and not have a replacement available. 

we cut and split today, probably did about 5 cords. after I finish up the last of our current log pile i'll snap a picture. we've probably processed about 25 cords so far with this machine.


----------



## BSD

well, we spent most of the day putting together a mafia block wall but we still managed to split 2 cords or so. i've switched to greasing the rack and SS plate with FluidFilm, it seems to last longer than axle grease.

This is about 45 minutes of work for two guys working at steady pace. could be nearly double if we had a conveyor.






every piece was split on the speedpro.





adding some depth to the picture.


----------



## TFPace

*Super fast*

SpeedPros are incredibly fast machines!!!!

I need to get some FluidFilm too.

Excellent work BSD!

Tom


----------



## Granite Stater

BSD said:


> greasing the rack and SS plate with FluidFilm



Gonna give that a try, thanks for the tip.


----------



## TFPace

*FluidFilm*

BSD,

I see that Grainger stocks this product. Do you buy the aerosol can or brush in can? Greasing the rack is just plain messy but it makes plenty of since. I have just been taking tube grease and filling the rack as best as possible.

My parts are due to be in any day and I am awaiting the big improvements.


----------



## Dozer Man

TFPace said:


> My parts are due to be in any day and I am await the big improvements.





Same here... opcorn:  :fart:


----------



## BSD

TFPace said:


> BSD,
> 
> I see that Grainger stocks this product. Do you buy the aerosol can or brush in can? Greasing the rack is just plain messy but it makes plenty of since. I have just been taking tube grease and filling the rack as best as possible.
> 
> My parts are due to be in any day and I am awaiting the big improvements.


i have both aerosol and a 1gallon can of it. i apply it with a 2" paintbrush. i've been using it for years on my plow and sanders to fight salt and it really is one of the best products out there.


----------



## Como

I wonder when they are going to start selling them again.


----------



## TFPace

Como said:


> I wonder when they are going to start selling them again.



Como, that's a question that I'd hate to answer. I'll give it a try though:msp_biggrin:. Their machine has plenty of potential, I really enjoy my splitter and have had little issues while other A.S. folk have been plagued with major issues. Blount has a lot of capital tied up in this machine and with all this said I expect them to re-enter this market with a machine that has been de-bugged much more thoroughly than the first SpeedPro issue. The portability of this machine is a big seller to most people, it was for me. Couple that with large out-feed table,Kohler engine and you have a decent machine IMO.

Maybe someone with Speeco will chime in here and add/subtract to my viewpoint?:msp_wink:.

Tom


----------



## BSD

TFPace said:


> Como, that's a question that I'd hate to answer. I'll give it a try though:msp_biggrin:. Their machine has plenty of potential, I really enjoy my splitter and have had little issues while other A.S. folk have been plagued with major issues. Blount has a lot of capital tied up in this machine and with all this said I expect them to re-enter this market with a machine that has been de-bugged much more thoroughly than the first SpeedPro issue. The portability of this machine is a big seller to most people, it was for me. Couple that with large out-feed table,Kohler engine and you have a decent machine IMO.
> 
> Maybe someone with Speeco will chime in here and add/subtract to my viewpoint?:msp_wink:.
> 
> Tom


I think you're pretty spot-on. they have too much invested to just drop the line, but i don't see them selling them again until 2013 or later after the replacement parts have been field tested (by us basically).


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## Dozer Man

*In the market for good...*

If the _Speeco Marketing Department_ has any merit whatsoever, from what they told me @ the first of the year, they are in the kinetic/mechanical splitter business to stay. It wouldn't surprise me, from what I was told, if we see _multiple models _come fall. But on the other hand...at this point nothing surprises me as I don't get my hopes up any more. As far as I'm concerned, we will have to see how the new parts and repairs go first...then go from there. 

This machine has tons of potential and I love using it. It is a joy to use, and I still can't help but smile every time I fire it up and start splitting. And as others point out, the towability is a must for me. I don't want to have to load my splitter onto a trailer just to move it 300 yards up a slight grade. 

My $.02 worth. Will have more when repairs are made.


----------



## philwillmt

TFPace said:


> SpeedPros are incredibly fast machines!!!!
> 
> I need to get some FluidFilm too.
> 
> Excellent work BSD!
> 
> Tom



I've always thought that motor cycle chain lube would work good on the racks due to its strong adhesive properties. Is this FluidFilm similar? Also, I've been giving some thought to installing a grease manifold in a easy access place, then run a small diameter grease line (plastic or copper) and nylon brush from it and mount the brush where it's slightly touching the pinion gear. That way the rack could be greased any time without taking anything apart. I have done miter gears and spur gears this way on various equipment, and it works great!

Food for thought...

P.Williamson


----------



## Como

So it is down to the DR or the Super Split this year.


----------



## Dozer Man

*Call Speeco Marketing...*



Como said:


> I wonder when they are going to start selling them again.



If I were interested in a SpeedPro, I would call and ask Speeco. They might give more insight as to when they intend to re-enter the market with this machine. I would definately wait to see how the repairs have gone to see if any issues are still there. 

As for mine, other than needing to replace the bearings under the ram-head, I'm happy with the way it runs now. I just wish they would give me the spare parts for if/when I ever need them. But liability dictates that they have there repair shop do the repairs, so I will just have to be happy with that.


----------



## COUNTRY6543

Well I had a chance to take the new and improved speed pro out today and put it through it's paces. Went to the brother-n-laws and he had alot of fresh cut cottonwood. Quickly found out that during the fix process, they nuetered my machine. They had turned the throttle down so far that it would not split very big stuff at all and would just stahl out and have to hit it two or three times. That got real old. I have enough experience with this machine that I had already found it's sweet spot and turned it back up just a tad. Amazing how much difference a couple hundred rpm makes. I was back in action. Split for the rest of the day and no disengagement at all, just slipped the clutch when it hit something to hard. Went home and opened her up. Found that the cam engagement was a little different. They had increased the angle of engagement (basically they moved the cam foreward instead of the stop rod) and again it worked as it should. After using it today, It feels very promising. The lock up feels much more secure. If the rack is treated and can withstand some hits and the cam stays locked up we should be back in business. Time will tell. 

Let me know what you guys are experiencing with the update kits. Are they staying locked up during the engagement or still jumping out of gear.


----------



## TFPace

COUNTRY6543,

I am looking forward to seeing how the new and improved machine works out. The shop that will do the improvements has not received the parts yet. I am in hopes that I can take look at whats going on in that I modified the handle and up-graded the engagement rod also. The guys that is their repairman has never seen this type of splitter and this doesn't alarm me as long as he reads and understands English is you know what I mean.  I might even see if I can talk them into letting me assist.:hmm3grin2orange: In that most of us have several hours behind the rudder of this machine.

Tom


----------



## fox2

*Fixed and waiting to go!*

As of Wednesday my new parts arrived and as of Wednesday my splitter was ready to go. I will be picking it up tomorrow and putting it to the test. I would like to have gotten it Wednesday but I have been working. I did see the new parts before installation and they look almost exactly the same. The new rack did not have that stop that disengaged the old one welded to it and the bearing assembly that lifts the rack was definitely beefier but other than that not too much difference. I just hope that they did not effectively harden the rack beyond what the existing pinion gear can handle. They also made upgrades to the bearing carrier for the engagement but I did not inspect those too well and they also replaced the linkage from the handle to the carrier. I will rough it up tomorrow evening and we will see how it works. I am hoping for the best but still a little nervous.


----------



## TFPace

*Thanks*

Fox2,

Thanks for the update, it sounds like this R&R project is picking up steam. I'm going to call my shop and see if the stuff is there yet.

Tom


----------



## fox2

No Problem. I know my shop has several sets of replacement parts and no splitters to put them on. I also know that they to TSC's in store work so I would imagine they are sending the crated units for repair which seems to me like they are going to sell them again. That is all speculation, however. Last I talked to Speeco, the new racks were being stress tested at thousands and thousands of cycles. I don't know what kinds of loads they were under but they seem to be pretty confident in this round as they had a previous round designed and rejected them due to quality control issues (which is funny since the original parts made it through). Everyone who stuck with this splitter and all you onlookers waiting for one, keep your fingers crossed!


----------



## fox2

Well I dod not have much time to split today but I did run through the last few pieces that the speedpro failed on with the last rack and it flew through them. It cuts now like it did out of the box. It was actually smashing my maple into pieces if it was misaligned rather than bogging it down and disengaging. Here is a pic of one of the cover your nuts and watch it fly pieces.


----------



## BSD

over the last few days we've put up a solid 10 cord of wood. yesterday we started having engagement issues with my reversed handle. it has been flexing the cover and bottoming out. it was jumping out of gear on almost anything but straight grained stuff. so I cut the rod off and added another 1" to it and re-drilled to give my handle more room for downward travel. today we split some of the nastiest pieces in the pile. it was the stuff we'd been avoiding for the rest of the week. no problems with the handle, extended rod, however we did shear the 3/4" bolt that holds the head on the ram. i'll have to dig through the garage and see if I have a replacement available.


----------



## Naked Arborist

Sounds like you finally got it working right. Good Job! Is the bolt a grade 5 or 8? Just curious...


----------



## BSD

Naked Arborist said:


> Sounds like you finally got it working right. Good Job! Is the bolt a grade 5 or 8? Just curious...



i believe it was grade 5. going to put an 8 in there. i don't see any benefit to replacing with a 5. there is no need to shear off (like in a snowblower or something)


----------



## CRThomas

*I am glad*

I am sure glad I didn't get one of them super splitters after reading 59 pages of problems with them. I am going to stick with my old 12 second and 20 and 30 ton splitters hydronic. Different stocks for different folks. Later


----------



## Hddnis

CRThomas said:


> I am sure glad I didn't get one of them super splitters after reading 59 pages of problems with them. I am going to stick with my old 12 second and 20 and 30 ton splitters hydronic. Different stocks for different folks. Later





If I had to wager I would put down money that you could have read 59 pages of good things and it would not have changed your mind. 




Mr. HE


----------



## CUCV

CRThomas said:


> I am sure glad I didn't get one of them super splitters after reading 59 pages of problems with them. I am going to stick with my old 12 second and 20 and 30 ton splitters hydronic. Different stocks for different folks. Later



Edit your post "Speedpro" not" Super Splitters" Granted I still give Speedpro the benefit of doubt to clear up the problems, I can see simple solutions for the problems they just need to get them resolved asap.


----------



## CRThomas

*Reply*



Hddnis said:


> If I had to wager I would put down money that you could have read 59 pages of good things and it would not have changed your mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. HE


 no I run a very money making firewood business. Why would I want to gamble on a machine that is having problems. I am glad that all of this was put in here to make me not want one now. I have old stand by hyd. Splitters never had a problem with them. I have a 20 ton electric and a 30 and 20 ton three point they have been reliable for years. I am always looking for a better way to run my profit margin up. I real don't have time to wait on parts and time to repair on one. I have changed ways to run my business over the years. I am not stuck in a ditch. Later


----------



## Como

CRThomas said:


> no I run a very money making firewood business. Why would I want to gamble on a machine that is having problems. I am glad that all of this was put in here to make me not want one now. I have old stand by hyd. Splitters never had a problem with them. I have a 20 ton electric and a 30 and 20 ton three point they have been reliable for years. I am always looking for a better way to run my profit margin up. I real don't have time to wait on parts and time to repair on one. I have changed ways to run my business over the years. I am not stuck in a ditch. Later



Super Splits have been around for 20 years or so.

Or have a look at the DR Rapid Fire, 6 month trial.


----------



## philwillmt

CRThomas said:


> no I run a very money making firewood business. Why would I want to gamble on a machine that is having problems. I am glad that all of this was put in here to make me not want one now. I have old stand by hyd. Splitters never had a problem with them. I have a 20 ton electric and a 30 and 20 ton three point they have been reliable for years. I am always looking for a better way to run my profit margin up. I real don't have time to wait on parts and time to repair on one. I have changed ways to run my business over the years. I am not stuck in a ditch. Later



There certainly is less to go wrong with a hydraulic splitter, but I still believe that if the kinetic splitters are built well (i.e. quality parts and good engineering) then they too should give many years of service. From what I have read, there are a number of old kinetics out there. Granted, an old, trusty hydraulic is hard to beat, but we're talking 6 times faster with a kinetic! It all gets back to personal choice I guess. One thing is for certain...either one sure beats a splitting maul!


----------



## Dozer Man

*Commercial Use*

CRThomas,

IMO...if you are looking for a way to increase production out of your _money making firewood business_, a kinetic splitter will do that...Hands down! 

Imo...speeco has entered the kinetic splitter market with a machine that had some bugs. They are attempting to fix them as we speak. I have no worries that between speeco and myself, that this machine will be reliable for many years to come. All of us who own a speedpro have stuck it out for one main reason...we don't want to go back to splitting in slow motion. Once you've split with a kinetic splitter, there is no return to hydro.

As for the DR...it seems to be a good machine, but possibly with some bugs of its own. 6-month trial is only for residential use. Commercial use trial is only 30 days. Not saying it's not a good machine, but for me it still has to prove itself also. I don't split any where near 100+ cord a year. I won't split 100+ cord in 5 years, which is well out of it's warranty. 

CR...please don't put the Super Split machine down just because of anything you've read in here about other brands. SuperSplit has been around for over 30 years. _It is tried and true._ It's the whole reason for me wanting a kinetic splitter. It was just always out of reach from my pockets. If you can afford the extra money, and from all I've read in AS about them, the Super Split will increase your firewood production for many years to come.

We can all only hope that the _Other Brands _of kinetic splitters will eventually have the tried and true reliability of the Super Split.

To me it was worth the gamble to buy the Speedpro. For the simple reason that I got a kinetic splitter for the price of a hydraulic splitter, which was all my wood splitting budget would allow. I don't rely on a "money making firewood business" for income, it's just a hobby for me. The SpeedPro will take care of all my needs for many years to come. Imo...Once the bugs are out of this machine, Speeco will have a good stand in the kinetic splitter business for many years to come also.


----------



## CRThomas

*Reply Dozer man*



Dozer Man said:


> CRThomas,
> IMO...if you are looking for a way to increase production out of your _money making firewood business_, a kinetic splitter will do that...Hands down!
> 
> Imo...speeco has entered the kinetic splitter market with a machine that had some bugs. They are attempting to fix them as we speak. I have no worries that between speeco and myself, that this machine will be reliable for years to come. All of us who own a speedpro have stuck it out for one main reason...we don't want to go back to splitting in slow motion. Once you've split with a kinetic splitter, there is no return to hydro.
> 
> As for the DR...it seems to be a good machine, but possibly with some bugs of its own. 6-month trial is only for residential use. Commercial use trial is only 30 days. Not saying it's not a good machine, but for me it still has to prove itself also. I don't split any where near 100+ cord a year. I won't split 100+ cord in 5 years, which is well out of it's warranty.
> 
> 
> CR...please don't put the Super Split machine down just because of anything you've read in here about other brands. SuperSplit has been around for over 30 years. _It is tried and true._ It's the whole reason for me wanting a kinetic splitter. It was just always out of reach from my pockets. If you can afford the extra money, and from all I've read in AS about them, the Super Split will increase your firewood production for many years to come.
> 
> We can all only hope that the _Other Brands _of kinetic splitters can come close to the tried and true reliability of the Super Split. To me it was worth the gamble to buy the Speedpro. For the simple reason that I got a kinetic splitter for the price of a hydraulic splitter, which was all my wood splitting budget would allow. I don't rely on a "money making firewood business" for
> 
> income, it's just a hobby for me.


 I am not bad mouthing DR or any other splitters I am a one man operation. I was looking at the electric one for in side my building me and the boss lady talked it over and she said stay the way we are. I travel and split I need my tractor so I use a three point with a princess pump. I split on the job and leave the mess in the woods or lot I take the pieces that I can pick up work them up in my heat and central air building. My business I sell firewood year round my firewood is not for heat it is burn for looks in a fire place. I do a couple rank a day when I am not working on another job. Like now I am in Harrisburg cleaning up trees about ready to move out the big boys are here. Lunch break is over with got to go back to work one little job to do that's it. Different stokes for different folk. I got a good deal with Ramsplitter out of Rockford Illinois and it works for me. I call Doug he knows my equipment and me we have become friends over the years. I need something I get it quick and on time.


----------



## Como

What are the bugs with the DR?


----------



## CRThomas

*Reply*



Como said:


> What are the bugs with the DR?


 This whole 57 pages if you read them has been problems with splitters of all kinds not a thing more to say on the subject. I am content with what I have to work with and it makes me a very good living very good living.


----------



## Dozer Man

*Not knocking anyone*



Como said:


> What are the bugs with the DR?



Bugs...issues...details...whatever you want to call it. You will have to read the last few pages of the DR Rapidfire thread to get the jist of it. I'm not getting into a peeing contest with the DR boys (again)!! 

Also, DR is taking care of these issues extremely well (Kudos to them for replacing the machine with problems). My only concern is that, more than likely, I won't put enough hours on the machine for these issues to show up under warranty.


----------



## Dozer Man

*Thanks for chiming in*



CRThomas said:


> This whole 57 pages if you read them has been problems with splitters of all kinds not a thing more to say on the subject. I am content with what I have to work with and it makes me a very good living very good living.



CRThomas,

I'm glad you are happy with what you have. 57 pages of problem with all kinds of splitters??? I thought this was the SpeedPro thread. Or, as some have come to know it, the speedpro bashing thread. There are lots of ignorant comments on these pages.

If you are truely happy with what you are splitting with then so be it. BUT... I highly suggest that you NOT use a kinetic splitter, if ever given the chance. Only then will you understand the hype.


----------



## Como

Dozer Man said:


> Bugs...issues...details...whatever you want to call it. You will have to read the last few pages of the DR Rapidfire thread to get the jist of it. I'm not getting into a peeing contest with the DR boys (again)!!
> 
> Also, DR is taking care of these issues extremely well (Kudos to them for replacing the machine with problems). My only concern is that, more than likely, I won't put enough hours on the machine for these issues to show up under warranty.



I am familiar with that thread, the one they swapped out had done a 100 cords and it sounded they wanted to see how it had stood up.

Otherwise the issues seemed minor, nothing intrinsic.


----------



## Dozer Man

Como said:


> I am familiar with that thread, the one they swapped out had done a 100 cords and it sounded they wanted to see how it had stood up.
> 
> Otherwise the issues seemed minor, nothing intrinsic.




Again, kudos to DR for replacing the machines. But I have a hard time calling a _complete ram-head failure_ do to poor weld penetration a minor issue. My fear is that if that had happened to me, it would be out of warranty by then, as I don't use it as often. 

Just pointing out...not trying to cut anything down. Issues with new products entering the market are common. How these issues are resolved is the bigger problem.


----------



## Como

Dozer Man said:


> Again, kudos to DR for replacing the machines. But I have a hard time calling a _complete ram-head failure_ do to poor weld penetration a minor issue. My fear is that if that had happened to me, it would be out of warranty by then, as I don't use it as often.
> 
> Just pointing out...not trying to cut anything down. Issues with new products entering the market are common. How these issues are resolved is the bigger problem.



Seemed an odd minor weld failure, and no biggy to fix.

I am not sure what to recommend as an alternative if that is your issue.


----------



## BSD

Como said:


> Seemed an odd minor weld failure, and no biggy to fix.
> 
> I am not sure what to recommend as an alternative if that is your issue.


a foot plate failing because of a bad weld is a major problem. thats like saying a wheel falling off a car while traveling down the interstate is an inconvenience.

I'm glad to see DR stepped up and quickly sent him another, that's more than I can say about speeco at the moment. 

The point is, every machine has its glitches and problems. I, as many of the others that still own a speedpro are still here to talk about fixes, work-arounds and just general reporting about how the machine is holding up. we chose to gamble a savings to try a design by a reputable company in the industry. Yes, there are issues, but at the moment it looks like speeco is holding true on fixing and updating the design of the unit. Yes, it's taken far longer than it should have, but they are still working on it. 

If you've never used the machine, or even the style of kinetic machines, please don't bother giving us your 'expert' opinions. we don't give a rats rear-end about how strong and slow your hydro machine is. there are only a handful of members here to regret their purchase, and speeco/TSC have bought back their units for full refund.


----------



## Dozer Man

I don't have a problem welding the thing back together. That's the easy part. 

But I'm sure DR's warranty department won't like my weld...no matter how good it looks.

Catching flying debree concerns me quite a bit......:confused2: :msp_scared: :censored:


----------



## Junkfxr

I've been lurking on this thread since it started, mainly because of an untested new machine being introduced. I almost was one of the intial owners also, I have an aunt that works at a local TSC and the temptation was almost unbearable to own a kinetic splitter. My hat's off to everyone on here that has stuck it out so far and for all of the R&D that has gone on in poeple's back yards.

I've seen where several people said that they couldn't go back to hydraulic splitters because of the slow speed. I'd like to offer some thoughts on that if I may and I'm not bashing anyone or kinetic splitters by any means. I'm sure that most have seen the promotional video by DR comparing the RapidFire to a hydraulic splitter. I've never seen a hydraulic splitter that was that slow unless it was at idle. I have demo'd a couple different kinetic splitters, even the speedpro, and thought that there was still an awful lot of maual labor involved with having to drag the round back to be split over again if it was too big for just one split. Most of what I split is almost always too big for just one split.

I built my hydraulic splitter for less than what the SpeedPro costs by scrounging parts and what I couldn't scrounge, I bought as I could afford, one piece at a time. Mine has a 5" X 30" cylinder with a 2" rod, 22 gpm, 2 stage pump and an autocycle valve. Yes, splitting a round only one time, the kinetic splitters will walk all over it for speed but when a round needs multiple splits, I think that a hydraulic splitter with a multiwedge will give it a run for its money. I have a 4 and a 6 way wedge for mine. I got bored the other day and done some theoretical calculations. I cut my rounds 18" long whenever possible. I figured that once a round was placed on the splitter and the valve handles were pulled, the cylinder will advance 12" to the round at 22 gpm for a time of 2.8 seconds. Then if the pump kicks into low flow / high pressure at that moment, which never happens, it pushes the round onto the wedges a ways first, then the cylinder will advance another 18" pushing the round across the wedges at 7 gpm for a time of 4.17 seconds, then the autocycle valve retracts the cylinder for a time of 5.8 seconds. That's a total time of 12.8 seconds. If the 4 way wedge is on there, then that's 3.2 seconds per split piece. If the 6 way wedge is on there, then that's 2.1 seconds per split piece. All of that with only having to handle the round one time.

Even at this rate, it'll work two people to death and still is waiting on you a lot of the time. It would be even faster with a shorter cylinder but I got what I could find at the time. I'm still giving some serious thought to getting one of the SpeedPro's once the bugs are all worked out if for nothing else but for splitting the small wood that the cookstove takes.

Again, no bashing or bad mouthing anyone or their splitters. Just an obsevation that might have been ovelooked by some.


----------



## KiwiBro

Great observations. Horses for courses. Production, without handling the wood so much sounds like a great way to go if within the means (financial/time/skills) of splitter buyers/makers.


----------



## CRThomas

*Reply*



Junkfxr said:


> I've been lurking on this thread since it started, mainly because of an untested new machine being introduced. I almost was one of the intial owners also, I have an aunt that works at a local TSC and the temptation was almost unbearable to own a kinetic splitter. My hat's off to everyone on here that has stuck it out so far and for all of the R&D that has gone on in poeple's back yards.
> 
> I've seen where several people said that they couldn't go back to hydraulic splitters because of the slow speed. I'd like to offer some thoughts on that if I may and I'm not bashing anyone or kinetic splitters by any means. I'm sure that most have seen the promotional video by DR comparing the RapidFire to a hydraulic splitter. I've never seen a hydraulic splitter that was that slow unless it was at idle. I have demo'd a couple
> different kinetic splitters, even the speedpro, and thought that there was still an awful lot of maual labor involved with having to drag the round back to be split over again if it was too big for just one split. Most of what I split is almost always too big for just one split
> 
> I built my hydraulic splitter for less than what the SpeedPro costs by scrounging parts and what I couldn't scrounge, I bought as I could afford, one piece at a time. Mine has a 5" X 30" cylinder with a 2" rod, 22 gpm, 2 stage pump and an autocycle valve. Yes, splitting a round only one
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> time, the kinetic splitters will walk all over it for speed but when a round needs multiple splits, I think that a hydraulic splitter with a multiwedge will give it a run for its money. I have a 4 and a 6 way wedge for mine. I got bored the other day and done some theoretical calculations. I cut my rounds 18" long whenever possible. I figured that once a round was placed on the splitter and the valve handles were pulled, the cylinder will advance 12" to the round at 22 gpm for a time of 2.8 seconds. Then if the pump kicks into low flow / high pressure at that moment, which
> 
> never happens, it pushes the round onto the wedges a ways first, then the cylinder will advance another 18" pushing the round across the wedges at 7 gpm for a time of 4.17 seconds, then the autocycle valve retracts the cylinder for a time of 5.8 seconds. That's a total time of 12.8
> 
> seconds. If the 4 way wedge is on there, then that's 3.2 seconds per split piece. If the 6 way wedge is on there, then that's 2.1 seconds per split piece. All of that with only having to handle the round one time.
> 
> Even at this rate, it'll work two people to death and still is waiting on you a lot of the
> 
> 
> time. It would be even faster with a shorter cylinder but I got what I could find at the time. I'm still
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> giving some serious thought to getting one of the SpeedPro's once the bugs are all worked out if for nothing else but for splitting the small wood that the cookstove takes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, no bashing or bad mouthing anyone or their splitters. Just an obsevation that might have been ovelooked by some.


 you in trouble I just said I was glad I read up on those splitter that I was not going to buy one do to the problems they were having with them. They jump me big time. Even with that it help me make my plan not to buy one now. As you say my four and 6 way make a differents on those 3 and 4 ft chunks I get. I might later on get one of the electric to replace my electric 20 hydro that's in my shop now my 20 and 30 three point does the big stuff. The stuff I split in side is what I can pickup. It might be to fast for me to hold to take the bark off. I am going to have to see it in operation. I took the 16 gpm and drop down to a 11 gpm becaus it was to fast for my hand to hold the chunk for my bark remover. Don't know I'll see in the futures. I just keep reading and look in here. Later just got a order to run to New Albany Ind with my Hot Shot truck this day shot. I was planning on replaceing my liner in my kiln burner. I think I got to much going on. Later


----------



## philwillmt

Junkfxr said:


> I've been lurking on this thread since it started, mainly because of an untested new machine being introduced. I almost was one of the intial owners also, I have an aunt that works at a local TSC and the temptation was almost unbearable to own a kinetic splitter. My hat's off to everyone on here that has stuck it out so far and for all of the R&D that has gone on in poeple's back yards.
> 
> I've seen where several people said that they couldn't go back to hydraulic splitters because of the slow speed. I'd like to offer some thoughts on that if I may and I'm not bashing anyone or kinetic splitters by any means. I'm sure that most have seen the promotional video by DR comparing the RapidFire to a hydraulic splitter. I've never seen a hydraulic splitter that was that slow unless it was at idle. I have demo'd a couple different kinetic splitters, even the speedpro, and thought that there was still an awful lot of maual labor involved with having to drag the round back to be split over again if it was too big for just one split. Most of what I split is almost always too big for just one split.
> 
> I built my hydraulic splitter for less than what the SpeedPro costs by scrounging parts and what I couldn't scrounge, I bought as I could afford, one piece at a time. Mine has a 5" X 30" cylinder with a 2" rod, 22 gpm, 2 stage pump and an autocycle valve. Yes, splitting a round only one time, the kinetic splitters will walk all over it for speed but when a round needs multiple splits, I think that a hydraulic splitter with a multiwedge will give it a run for its money. I have a 4 and a 6 way wedge for mine. I got bored the other day and done some theoretical calculations. I cut my rounds 18" long whenever possible. I figured that once a round was placed on the splitter and the valve handles were pulled, the cylinder will advance 12" to the round at 22 gpm for a time of 2.8 seconds. Then if the pump kicks into low flow / high pressure at that moment, which never happens, it pushes the round onto the wedges a ways first, then the cylinder will advance another 18" pushing the round across the wedges at 7 gpm for a time of 4.17 seconds, then the autocycle valve retracts the cylinder for a time of 5.8 seconds. That's a total time of 12.8 seconds. If the 4 way wedge is on there, then that's 3.2 seconds per split piece. If the 6 way wedge is on there, then that's 2.1 seconds per split piece. All of that with only having to handle the round one time.
> 
> Even at this rate, it'll work two people to death and still is waiting on you a lot of the time. It would be even faster with a shorter cylinder but I got what I could find at the time. I'm still giving some serious thought to getting one of the SpeedPro's once the bugs are all worked out if for nothing else but for splitting the small wood that the cookstove takes.
> 
> Again, no bashing or bad mouthing anyone or their splitters. Just an obsevation that might have been ovelooked by some.



My concern with the multi-way wedges is all the odd sized pieces you end up with. From what I have seen (videos of multi-way wedges in action), because all logs are not a perfect nor consistent diameter, there sure seems to be a lot of slivers and odd size pieces. Is that the case?


----------



## TFPace

*Headed to the SpeedPro hospital*

The repair shop called this AM and said that the parts arrived. Their busy season is starting up so the lady recommended that I bring the SpeedPro in ASAP for the switch-out.

Fingers crossed?

Tom


----------



## TFPace

*Parts Photos*

I always travel with a camera so I seized the moment and opened the box that contained the replacement parts for the SpeedPro. The rack was very impressive. It has an oxide finish and is surprisingly well machined.

The cam linkage along with the engagement rod and bearings all were first class looking. When I think of Chinese I sometimes equate shotty craftsmanship with equipment made overseas. I can't say this about the parts I was photographing.

The shop guy was puzzled by my photo shoot and had to ask why I was going out of the way to make those pictures. I went onto explain the hours that I had spent studying the issues we have had with this machine and that seemed to satisfy him... I made my sells pitch as to why kinetic splitters are so much faster. I told him I would bring some wood over to test/demo when I returned to pickup the SpeedPro.

He knew zero about kinetic splitters and after a short-course on how they worked I hit the road. He said he'd have it repaired by the end of the week.

Thanks,

Tom

View attachment 228554
View attachment 228555
View attachment 228556
View attachment 228557
View attachment 228558


----------



## Russ84na

TFPace said:


> I always travel with a camera so I seized the moment and opened the box that contained the replacement parts for the SpeedPro. The rack was very impressive. It has an oxide finish and is surprisingly well machined.
> 
> The cam linkage along with the engagement rod and bearings all were first class looking. When I think of Chinese I sometimes equate shotty craftsmanship with equipment made overseas. I can't say this about the parts I was photographing.
> 
> The shop guy was puzzled by my photo shoot and had to ask why I was going out of the way to make those pictures. I went onto explain the hours that I had spent studying the issues we have had with this machine and that seemed to satisfy him... I made my sells pitch as to why kinetic splitters are so much faster. I told him I would bring some wood over to test/demo when I returned to pickup the SpeedPro.
> 
> He knew zero about kinetic splitters and after a short-course on how they worked I hit the road. He said he'd have it repaired by the end of the week.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Tom
> 
> View attachment 228554
> View attachment 228555
> View attachment 228556
> View attachment 228557
> View attachment 228558



I stopped by my local TSC on the way home to see when the units might be available. ( They had two units that they pulled in November) The sales kid in the store said that they had been repaired and that they were for sale. Price is the same as the Sales brochure. Offered an extended warranty 3 or 4 years for $100+ and $200+ (didn't remember the exact figure so it could have been $200- and$300- any way in that range.) The standard warranty was 1 year for the unit and longer for the engine.
He asked if I had seen them in action and that he really didn't know anything about them. He knows a lot more now than he did before I got there.
I could see the new rack, it does look good.
Couldn't see any of the other parts without taking it apart. The Sales Kid didn't know of anything else that had been replaced other than the rack.
I am going back with my tow vehicle tomorrow and pick one up. Usually I don't go in for warranty's figuring that if I have enough faith in the unit it will last, but in this case I am thinking that $100 to $200 for a 3 year warranty might be a good idea. Any thoughts?


----------



## TFPace

*Smart*

I usually skip warranties too. This machine might sway me to buy a warranty though:hmm3grin2orange:

Russ, all kidding aside, you will be very happy with your purchase. If I am able to go back and buy the warranty I very well may. IIRC TSC had a 30 day max time period to purchase the warranty and I have far exceeded that period.


----------



## Dozer Man

*Nice Pics*

Thanks TFPace, that gives me confirmation of what I thought was going on. 

I haven't heard from my local repair shop yet. I'll call them tomorrow. No biggy, the weather's so nice that I don't have time to get it up there anyways.


----------



## philwillmt

TFPace said:


> I always travel with a camera so I seized the moment and opened the box that contained the replacement parts for the SpeedPro. The rack was very impressive. It has an oxide finish and is surprisingly well machined.
> 
> The cam linkage along with the engagement rod and bearings all were first class looking. When I think of Chinese I sometimes equate shotty craftsmanship with equipment made overseas. I can't say this about the parts I was photographing.
> 
> The shop guy was puzzled by my photo shoot and had to ask why I was going out of the way to make those pictures. I went onto explain the hours that I had spent studying the issues we have had with this machine and that seemed to satisfy him... I made my sells pitch as to why kinetic splitters are so much faster. I told him I would bring some wood over to test/demo when I returned to pickup the SpeedPro.
> 
> He knew zero about kinetic splitters and after a short-course on how they worked I hit the road. He said he'd have it repaired by the end of the week.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Tom
> 
> View attachment 228554
> View attachment 228555
> View attachment 228556
> View attachment 228557
> View attachment 228558



Definately "looks" better than the original...time will tell I guess. I certainly hope this fixes things for the sake of all those involved. Thanks for sharing!


----------



## philwillmt

Russ84na said:


> I stopped by my local TSC on the way home to see when the units might be available. ( They had two units that they pulled in November) The sales kid in the store said that they had been repaired and that they were for sale. Price is the same as the Sales brochure. Offered an extended warranty 3 or 4 years for $100+ and $200+ (didn't remember the exact figure so it could have been $200- and$300- any way in that range.) The standard warranty was 1 year for the unit and longer for the engine.
> He asked if I had seen them in action and that he really didn't know anything about them. He knows a lot more now than he did before I got there.
> I could see the new rack, it does look good.
> Couldn't see any of the other parts without taking it apart. The Sales Kid didn't know of anything else that had been replaced other than the rack.
> I am going back with my tow vehicle tomorrow and pick one up. Usually I don't go in for warranty's figuring that if I have enough faith in the unit it will last, but in this case I am thinking that $100 to $200 for a 3 year warranty might be a good idea. Any thoughts?



Keep in mind that the extended warranty is exactly that...it merely extends the 1 year warranty to two or three years total. So in effect, you're paying $99 (?) for one additional year or $199 (?) for two additional years. At least that's the way it was when I bought my SpeedPro back in October of 2011. I'm like others on this forum...I never buy extended warranties, but I felt inclined to with a new product that hadn't proven itself yet. I think I made the right choice when I purchased the warranty.


----------



## 3fordasho

Two speedpros were out front and for sale at my local TSC. First I've been able to see one first hand. Kinda a moot point since I ordered my SuperSplit a week ago. One had the remnants of a claim tag on it, from the shop that installed the upgrade parts I presume. Price tag on them - 1699.99


----------



## KiwiBro

TFPace said:


> I always travel with a camera so I seized the moment and opened the box that contained the replacement parts for the SpeedPro. The rack was very impressive. It has an oxide finish and is surprisingly well machined.
> 
> The cam linkage along with the engagement rod and bearings all were first class looking. When I think of Chinese I sometimes equate shotty craftsmanship with equipment made overseas. I can't say this about the parts I was photographing.
> 
> The shop guy was puzzled by my photo shoot and had to ask why I was going out of the way to make those pictures. I went onto explain the hours that I had spent studying the issues we have had with this machine and that seemed to satisfy him... I made my sells pitch as to why kinetic splitters are so much faster. I told him I would bring some wood over to test/demo when I returned to pickup the SpeedPro.
> 
> He knew zero about kinetic splitters and after a short-course on how they worked I hit the road. He said he'd have it repaired by the end of the week.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Tom


----------



## CUCV

Wow, they spared no expense on those rack lift bearings, I would guess there will be complaints about them soon enough.


----------



## redprospector

Remember when companies did R&D themselves, before putting products on the market? 
I guess that was back when some things were still made here.

Andy


----------



## KiwiBro

CUCV said:


> Wow, they spared no expense on those rack lift bearings, I would guess there will be complaints about them soon enough.


For us ignorant types, can you please explain why? Thanks.


----------



## Russ84na

Went back last Tuesday and picked up my Speedpro. 
Some observations:
It has been stored outside since they took them off the market so many of the bolts had rusted on the surface.
Had the sales kid start it up. Started on first or second pull. Motor ran smoothly. No noticeable vibrations as described by some before.
The one thing that I noticed was that the flywheel and the clutch pulley were not lined up. When it was started they seemed to track OK and made no noise.

Hooked it to my car and towed it home...by the way the price was $1699.00 and I paid another $200 for the extended warranty. Figure that if I break it is should happen in the first three years.
Once home I figured I would try it out to see how it worked "out of the box".
I have about 8-10 cords of mainly cottonwood that blew down in last years storm. Figured that by the time I rented a splitter to take care of all that I would have paid for the speedpro so why not.
Now I know that cottonwood isn't the most favored firewood, but it is free and burns just fine when I feed the fire while working in my shop.
On to the test. Towed it down to the pile of wood and started it up. Once started, I set the speed at enough to engage the clutch, then increased it a bit. It went through every log with out a hitch. Then I hit a crotch piece, that took two hits, but split it. The clutch functioned as it should. The rack stopped. I disengaged the rack, let the flywheel get back up to speed and hit it again. 
One of the trees taken down was an elm. The wood is really "stringy" and hard to split. I had to increase the speed a bit for this wood, but it went through it.
Ran it for about an hour and split about 1/2 cord of wood. Figured that was pretty good for having to haul the logs up to the drive and pull the bark off each one as I split it...it has been sitting for about a year.
There were no violent releases of the rack. Only once did I notice the handle releasing hard as I had left my hand on the handle and when it popped to return it hit my hand.
If the log is not cut square on the end it will push sidways. Not a big deal, just have to be careful and know how the machine is going to work when you put the log in place.
After an hour my right arm had had enough. I will be modifying the handle to a lower position that will be easier for me to use.
The safety switch didn't bother me to much and may go depending on the location of the handle.
Today I decided to look under the hood.
The parts replaced seem to be the same ones in the pictures above. There was some light grease on the rack and probably will be something that I will include in the regular list of things to do.
I got a closer look at the belt/pulley situation with the cover off. The problem appears to be that the flywheel is 1.25" from the outside of the belt to the outside of the other belt, while the clutch has about 1". If they had aligned the center of the flywheel to the center of the clutch this might not have been so obvious, but the centers are about half a belt off so one side is worse than the other. I think that moving the motor to center these up will help with the belt wear.

All and all so far I am pleased with the unit. Time will tell how well it holds up.
Keep you all posted.


----------



## CUCV

KiwiBro said:


> For us ignorant types, can you please explain why? Thanks.



Inquisitive not ignorant...

As crud builds up on the I-beam from splitting over a period of time the rack may not return because these bearings can't freely roll over it. Larger bearings would be less sensitive to the crud build-up. The SS uses a larger bearing but I wish it was even bigger, thats why I have my splitter running on cam followers inside the I-beam. The electric splitter is sporting a larger bearing in the stock location and is showing to be an improvement over stock.


----------



## KiwiBro

CUCV said:


> Inquisitive not ignorant...
> 
> As crud builds up on the I-beam from splitting over a period of time the rack may not return because these bearings can't freely roll over it. Larger bearings would be less sensitive to the crud build-up. The SS uses a larger bearing but I wish it was even bigger, thats why I have my splitter running on cam followers inside the I-beam. The electric splitter is sporting a larger bearing in the stock location and is showing to be an improvement over stock.



Thanks very much for that. A bit like pebbles sending us flying off our skateboards when we were kids then, whereas our bikes would just roll over them, pneumatics aside.

There seems to be plenty of clearance for a bigger bearing/s.


----------



## KiwiBro

Russ84na said:


> Hooked it to my car and towed it home


Is anyone at DR or SS reading this thread? Or perhaps their legal advice is better than SP's?


----------



## CUCV

Exactly and yes there is plenty of room all to save a couple pennies literally.

SS advertises a towing package and does make them but they usually try to talk you out of it. 

One time... I saw a tri-axle log truck towing an itty bitty SS, just funny to see in person.




KiwiBro said:


> Thanks very much for that. A bit like pebbles sending us flying off our skateboards when we were kids then, whereas our bikes would just roll over them, pneumatics aside.
> 
> There seems to be plenty of clearance for a bigger bearing/s.


----------



## Como

CUCV said:


> Exactly and yes there is plenty of room all to save a couple pennies literally.
> 
> SS advertises a towing package and does make them but they usually try to talk you out of it.
> 
> One time... I saw a tri-axle log truck towing an itty bitty SS, just funny to see in person.



Probably easier to put it on a trailer?


----------



## Hddnis

CUCV said:


> Exactly and yes there is plenty of room all to save a couple pennies literally.
> 
> SS advertises a towing package and does make them but they usually try to talk you out of it.
> 
> One time... I saw a tri-axle log truck towing an itty bitty SS, just funny to see in person.





Tri-axle backfires and blows the flywheel covers off the SS. :msp_laugh:




Mr. HE


----------



## KiwiBro

CUCV said:


> Exactly and yes there is plenty of room all to save a couple pennies literally.
> 
> SS advertises a towing package and does make them but they usually try to talk you out of it.
> 
> One time... I saw a tri-axle log truck towing an itty bitty SS, just funny to see in person.



Is the towing package on their website? I can't see it there. It's not on their order form either. Did it have suspension? Was it capable of highway towing? What's stopping these top-heavy machines from tipping over other than the coupling connection?


----------



## TFPace

*New parts*

I picked up my machine yesterday.

I brought along some material to test and the SpeedPro worked flawlessly. The owner of the shop had never witnessed a kinetic splitter and was impressed. 

I looked at my old parts and my old rack looked fine. I am glad I have the "new" parts. Time will tell how these improved items hold up.


----------



## Cedar-Acres

*Pulled the trigger...*

My local TSC finally got their units retrofitted and put them out for sale yesterday. I decided it was time to jump into the game and purchase one. I started it up before purchasing it, just took one pull of the starter rope. I cycled it a few times, shut it down, loaded on the trailer and took it home. I have a bit of interstate to travel and didn't want to risk towing it at those speeds. Got it home and the first thing I did was align the motor with the flywheel, it was off about 1/4". When tightening everything down I found the outboard belt tensioning screw locknut had a left-hand lock washer and would not tighten. I replaced it with a right-hand lock washer and checked every other bolt/washer on the machine. That was the only left-hand I found. I noted that the wedge is not sharpened to a fine edge. It has about a 1/8" flat on it. Is that normal or should I sharpen it? Opinions on this are welcomed!

The motor isn’t running all that fast at full throttle and the ram speed doesn’t seem to be unreasonably fast. It is noticeably quieter than the Briggs on the hydro splitter. I need to get a tachometer to see how fast it is running. Any suggestions on a good tachometer to put on this motor?

Next I towed it out to the wood pile and proceeded to split some wood. After about a chord I had only two crotches it couldn't split, it actually did the violent disengagement on those. You don’t want to have your hand on the lever when it does that, not pleasant! I hit each about 5 times and it wouldn't split it, just disengaged each time. So I pulled them off and took the MS460 to them. I did have a few times that the ram stalled and loaded the motor down on a nasty chunk and I manually disengaged and then hit it again to finish the split. I need to look at why I got the violent disengagements and see what I can do to correct that. Toward the end of the session the ram failed to retract and I found one of the retracting springs had come off. It was a simple matter to hook it back up again, but shouldn’t it be designed better??? The return springs are slack when the ram is fully back. I think I will adjust them so they have some tension on them, that should keep them from jumping off.

All in all, it performed reasonably well and I feel it was worth the money as long as nothing physically breaks. It can stand some tweaks and I am learning its quirks. I was able to split a chord in about an hour and a half. With the hydro it would take me 3 to 4 hours to split a chord. The main slowdown was the time it took me to retrieve and load the rounds onto the splitter. The splitting itself was faster than I could keep up with. A helper would make the whole process much faster. I want to split a couple more chords before I put the hydro up for sale, but at this point I believe the SpeedPro will handle all the splitting I do.


----------



## sunfish

Como said:


> Probably easier to put it on a trailer?



I split all my wood here in the wood lot, so no need for me to tow.

But I do like to take the SS to some of our gtgs around here and just roll it up into a 5'x10' tilt trailer I have. Easy on and easy off. Works great for me...


----------



## TFPace

*Tiny Tach*



Cedar-Acres said:


> . Any suggestions on a good tachometer to put on this motor?




Cedar-Acres,

Welcome to the brotherhood of SpeedPro owners.

Here is a link to the Tiny Tach. Is will suit your needs and is made here in the USA. Tiny-Tach: Gasoline Tachometers

Work safe,

Tom


----------



## Cedar-Acres

TFPace said:


> Cedar-Acres,
> 
> Welcome to the brotherhood of SpeedPro owners.
> 
> Here is a link to the Tiny Tach. Is will suit your needs and is made here in the USA. Tiny-Tach: Gasoline Tachometers
> 
> Work safe,
> 
> Tom



Thanks for the suggestion!


----------



## philwillmt

Cedar-Acres said:


> My local TSC finally got their units retrofitted and put them out for sale yesterday. I decided it was time to jump into the game and purchase one. I started it up before purchasing it, just took one pull of the starter rope. I cycled it a few times, shut it down, loaded on the trailer and took it home. I have a bit of interstate to travel and didn't want to risk towing it at those speeds. Got it home and the first thing I did was align the motor with the flywheel, it was off about 1/4". When tightening everything down I found the outboard belt tensioning screw locknut had a left-hand lock washer and would not tighten. I replaced it with a right-hand lock washer and checked every other bolt/washer on the machine. That was the only left-hand I found. I noted that the wedge is not sharpened to a fine edge. It has about a 1/8" flat on it. Is that normal or should I sharpen it? Opinions on this are welcomed!
> 
> The motor isn’t running all that fast at full throttle and the ram speed doesn’t seem to be unreasonably fast. It is noticeably quieter than the Briggs on the hydro splitter. I need to get a tachometer to see how fast it is running. Any suggestions on a good tachometer to put on this motor?
> 
> Next I towed it out to the wood pile and proceeded to split some wood. After about a chord I had only two crotches it couldn't split, it actually did the violent disengagement on those. You don’t want to have your hand on the lever when it does that, not pleasant! I hit each about 5 times and it wouldn't split it, just disengaged each time. So I pulled them off and took the MS460 to them. I did have a few times that the ram stalled and loaded the motor down on a nasty chunk and I manually disengaged and then hit it again to finish the split. I need to look at why I got the violent disengagements and see what I can do to correct that. Toward the end of the session the ram failed to retract and I found one of the retracting springs had come off. It was a simple matter to hook it back up again, but shouldn’t it be designed better??? The return springs are slack when the ram is fully back. I think I will adjust them so they have some tension on them, that should keep them from jumping off.
> 
> All in all, it performed reasonably well and I feel it was worth the money as long as nothing physically breaks. It can stand some tweaks and I am learning its quirks. I was able to split a chord in about an hour and a half. With the hydro it would take me 3 to 4 hours to split a chord. The main slowdown was the time it took me to retrieve and load the rounds onto the splitter. The splitting itself was faster than I could keep up with. A helper would make the whole process much faster. I want to split a couple more chords before I put the hydro up for sale, but at this point I believe the SpeedPro will handle all the splitting I do.



See post #232...deja vu. Hey, that rhymes! I also found a left handed lock washer on the right hand threaded flywheel retainer bolt (non-driven side...the driven side has a left hand threaded retainer bolt that is supposed to have a left handed lock washer, and it did.) I sharpened the wedge on mine razor sharp, and it helped tremendously. I found that it would slice through knots instead of stalling or disengaging on them. As for handling the split pieces, I found that simply putting a 55gal drum on the operator side of the splitter table gave me a place to set the pieces that needed to be split again. And, the drum is a comfortable working height for me which requires no bending over. 

Food for thought...


----------



## Cedar-Acres

philwillmt said:


> See post #232...deja vu. Hey, that rhymes! I also found a left handed lock washer on the right hand threaded flywheel retainer bolt (non-driven side...the driven side has a left hand threaded retainer bolt that is supposed to have a left handed lock washer, and it did.) I sharpened the wedge on mine razor sharp, and it helped tremendously. I found that it would slice through knots instead of stalling or disengaging on them. As for handling the split pieces, I found that simply putting a 55gal drum on the operator side of the splitter table gave me a place to set the pieces that needed to be split again. And, the drum is a comfortable working height for me which requires no bending over.
> 
> Food for thought...



Thanks for the info. I will be sure to double check the flywheel retainer bolt lockwashers. I had been considering sharpening the wedge but thought there might be a good reason for it not to be so sharp. Your experience with sharpening it confirms what I was thinking. I will take the angle grinder to it and give it a nice sharp edge. I have already shortened up the eyebolts that anchor the return springs so they have some tension on them at all times.


----------



## Russ84na

As I said in my post of 3/17 # 876 I got my speed pro and gave it a try.
After the first day the unit worked just fine, but my shoulder wasn't doing that well so I decided to relocate the engagement lever/handleView attachment 232240

The plate is 1/8" with the holes drilled to line up with the canopy holes and the center push rod hole.
The distance between the pivot bolt and the push rod is shortened and the length from the push rod to the handle is longer. This makes the hole thing easier to push. Especially at the lower postion.View attachment 232241

View attachment 232242

So far I have gone through about 3 cords of splitting and the unit has worked just fine.
Run the engine at a speed just enough to keep the flywheels working for the wood you are splitting and be careful how you put the logs into the cradle.
Yesterday I found a bolt under the machine. I looked everywhere for where it came from. Finally I went to the owners manual and on the last page I found it. It was the bolt, thick washer and lock washer that hold the clutch onto the shaft of the engine. This is hard to get tight as the engine wants to turn as you tighten it. I decided to use a little blue loc-tite on it just in case.
I am so far very pleased with the speedpro and judging from the number of neighbors that have stopped by to see it in action...


----------



## TFPace

*Report*

Hello Russ,

Thanks for the update. I am pleased with the report.
I was expecting some negative report. 

Work safe,

Tom


----------



## philwillmt

Russ84na said:


> As I said in my post of 3/17 # 876 I got my speed pro and gave it a try.
> After the first day the unit worked just fine, but my shoulder wasn't doing that well so I decided to relocate the engagement lever/handleView attachment 232240
> 
> The plate is 1/8" with the holes drilled to line up with the canopy holes and the center push rod hole.
> The distance between the pivot bolt and the push rod is shortened and the length from the push rod to the handle is longer. This makes the hole thing easier to push. Especially at the lower postion.View attachment 232241
> 
> View attachment 232242
> 
> So far I have gone through about 3 cords of splitting and the unit has worked just fine.
> Run the engine at a speed just enough to keep the flywheels working for the wood you are splitting and be careful how you put the logs into the cradle.
> Yesterday I found a bolt under the machine. I looked everywhere for where it came from. Finally I went to the owners manual and on the last page I found it. It was the bolt, thick washer and lock washer that hold the clutch onto the shaft of the engine. This is hard to get tight as the engine wants to turn as you tighten it. I decided to use a little blue loc-tite on it just in case.
> I am so far very pleased with the speedpro and judging from the number of neighbors that have stopped by to see it in action...



See post #743...same thing happened to me. I think the blue Loc-Tite is the way to go.


----------



## csmith

*speedpro fixed*

I got my upgrade and still had disengagement . So I got the old parts that were replaced and milled 1/16 inch off the old cam.replaced old parts and it works perfectly .never disengages . If speedpro would move stop rod the same amount it would fix all their problems


----------



## tspot100

*my new speedpro*

after much research and waiting... i finally brought home a speedpro last week.
overall a very good machine but:
much like other reports, 
the flywheels are not balanced well giving the machine a wobble big enough to shake loose MANY fasteners .
i found 4 bolts/washers... on the ground after splitting for an hour. found where they belong and tightened well. spoke w speeco about the flywheel issue and they gave me authorized service centers locally. one of which has been out of business for over a year.
the next to closest shop has never even seen a kinetic splitter, leaving me hesitant to drop it off for fear of making matters worse. do these independent repair shops have a machine shop at their disposal to true the flywheels? should i just bring them to my trusted machine shop and eat the cost? shouldn't have to with the warranty...
aside from those issues, the motor runs well, splits ANYTHING i put on it. the handle needs relocation. my shoulder is fine but the wrist hurts... split 2 cords in a bit over 2 hrs...
very good machine overall...
has anyone successfully treated the out of round flywheel issue?


----------



## sunfish

tspot100 said:


> *after much research* and waiting... i finally brought home a speedpro last week.
> overall a very good machine but:
> much like other reports,
> the flywheels are not balanced well giving the machine a wobble big enough to shake loose MANY fasteners .
> i found 4 bolts/washers... on the ground after splitting for an hour. found where they belong and tightened well. spoke w speeco about the flywheel issue and they gave me authorized service centers locally. one of which has been out of business for over a year.
> the next to closest shop has never even seen a kinetic splitter, leaving me hesitant to drop it off for fear of making matters worse. do these independent repair shops have a machine shop at their disposal to true the flywheels? should i just bring them to my trusted machine shop and eat the cost? shouldn't have to with the warranty...
> aside from those issues, the motor runs well, splits ANYTHING i put on it. the handle needs relocation. my shoulder is fine but the wrist hurts... split 2 cords in a bit over 2 hrs...
> very good machine overall...
> has anyone successfully treated the out of round flywheel issue?


After all that research, why did you buy one?


----------



## nysparkie

*I'm reading*



KiwiBro said:


> Is anyone at DR or SS reading this thread? Or perhaps their legal advice is better than SP's?



I here reading Kiwi. What can I do for ya?


----------



## nysparkie

KiwiBro said:


> Is the towing package on their website? I can't see it there. It's not on their order form either. Did it have suspension? Was it capable of highway towing? What's stopping these top-heavy machines from tipping over other than the coupling connection?



RapidFire (DR) sells a towing kit. Not for highway use. Their instructions are for yard or local field use only.


----------



## Cerran

TFPace said:


> Cedar-Acres,
> 
> Welcome to the brotherhood of SpeedPro owners.
> 
> Here is a link to the Tiny Tach. Is will suit your needs and is made here in the USA. Tiny-Tach: Gasoline Tachometers
> 
> Work safe,
> 
> Tom



You may also want to consider the Fasttach as well. I tried a friend's Tinytach and ended up buying the Fastach on BSnelling's recommendation. I was not disappointed with my choice.

It's made by the same people as the Tiny Tach:

http://www.tinytach.com/design/handheld.php

I even used it for setting the idle on my corolla the other day when I did a tune-up.


----------



## KiwiBro

sunfish said:


> After all that research, why did you buy one?



Good question. One I'd be keen to learn the answer to also. Perhaps it was the research that confirmed various work-arounds exist for many of the products issues and have been documented in places like this thread, to the extent it's worth tackling those when they arise? Perhaps it's the knowledge buying this product rather than alternatives will be sure to leave enough to feed the family and pay the mortgage for another month? Perhaps the research revealed a company that is trying to stand behind their product, albeit rather slowly? I dunno, but I genuinely would be interested to learn why a suitably informed buyer would buy this product.


----------



## philwillmt

tspot100 said:


> after much research and waiting... i finally brought home a speedpro last week.
> overall a very good machine but:
> much like other reports,
> the flywheels are not balanced well giving the machine a wobble big enough to shake loose MANY fasteners .
> i found 4 bolts/washers... on the ground after splitting for an hour. found where they belong and tightened well. spoke w speeco about the flywheel issue and they gave me authorized service centers locally. one of which has been out of business for over a year.
> the next to closest shop has never even seen a kinetic splitter, leaving me hesitant to drop it off for fear of making matters worse. do these independent repair shops have a machine shop at their disposal to true the flywheels? should i just bring them to my trusted machine shop and eat the cost? shouldn't have to with the warranty...
> aside from those issues, the motor runs well, splits ANYTHING i put on it. the handle needs relocation. my shoulder is fine but the wrist hurts... split 2 cords in a bit over 2 hrs...
> very good machine overall...
> has anyone successfully treated the out of round flywheel issue?



See post #232 and associated follow-up posts. It all boils down to poor quality control. Good luck!


----------



## Como

I have just got a DR, only done a few wheelbarrows so far, only issue is that the bar does not always fully retract. May be an adjustment issue, should read the manual.

I have the work table (essential) and the electric start. Really nice but think the motor would be an easy start without.


----------



## tspot100

philwillmt,
speeco sent YOU the replacement flywheels?
they told me to go to an authorized service center...








philwillmt said:


> Well, I got my replacement flywheels yesterday, and I got my new SpeeCo splitter put back together today and test ran it. The replacement flywheels did the trick...the bouncing and lope are way better! There is minimal vibration and movement when the splitter is running, and it's certailnly tollerable! I split about two cords of wood today with it, and man is it fast! We'll see how long it holds up...hopefully a long, long time! The technical support I received from SpeeCo and TSC was very good. They got my parts to me within a week. They were also nice enough to send me some extra hardware and a couple of spare belts. Thanks Ron and Josh! Much appreciated!


----------



## Cedar-Acres

KiwiBro said:


> Good question. One I'd be keen to learn the answer to also. Perhaps it was the research that confirmed various work-arounds exist for many of the products issues and have been documented in places like this thread, to the extent it's worth tackling those when they arise? Perhaps it's the knowledge buying this product rather than alternatives will be sure to leave enough to feed the family and pay the mortgage for another month? Perhaps the research revealed a company that is trying to stand behind their product, albeit rather slowly? I dunno, but I genuinely would be interested to learn why a suitably informed buyer would buy this product.



Ok, here is my answer:

After seeing the Speedpro when it initially came out, watching this forum as the problems were uncovered and fixes proposed, seeing Speeco pull them off the market and then reintroduce them after the fixes were released; I determined that I could handle any modifications I may feel necessary and at the same time save a good chunk of change. I like to tinker and this is a good basic machine to work with.

The Speedpro is locally available to me so I was able to see the unit and run it through several cycles to be sure the flywheel balance problem was not an issue and I purchased it. I have now split over 2 cords on it and only had one Y that it didn’t split, I believe it was my fault for not orienting it properly. No other Y’s have given me a problem. I have tightened up the return springs to keep them from jumping off and have sharpened the wedge. This evening I will be doing the cam stop adjustment to allow it to go just a little further over center to stop the “violent disengagement” that has happened on 3 of the tougher rounds I split. 

The final modification will be to reorient the handle to make long term use more comfortable. I am working on an idea of making it a big 3" pushbutton at about shoulder height that I can just push straight away from me without having to bend or twist to actuate it, just a simple firm shove on the button. I will need to design a pivot to change the horizontal motion to a vertical motion to actuate the cam, but that won’t be difficult.


----------



## KiwiBro

Cedar-Acres said:


> Ok, here is my answer:


 Thanks for that. I figured that despite the SpeedPro issues, those who had the skills and time to tinker would prefer to save some bucks buying this splitter and get at it, secure in the knowledge that thanks to this thread, forewarned is forearmed. the savings are not insignificant, if a buyer has the nous and time, and can handle the downtime when the splitter is being modified.


----------



## philwillmt

tspot100 said:


> philwillmt,
> speeco sent YOU the replacement flywheels?
> they told me to go to an authorized service center...



Tspot100,

SpeeCo sent the replacement flywheels / parts to the local TSC where I purchased the splitter, and I swapped them the out-of-balance flywheels when I picked up the new ones. I don't know if they offer that to everyone...I got the feeling that they would prefer an authorized service center to do all the repairs.


----------



## tspot100

philwillmt said:


> Tspot100,
> 
> SpeeCo sent the replacement flywheels / parts to the local TSC where I purchased the splitter, and I swapped them the out-of-balance flywheels when I picked up the new ones. I don't know if they offer that to everyone...I got the feeling that they would prefer an authorized service center to do all the repairs.



thanks for the reply. did speeco take your word for it that the flywheels were out of balance or was it diagnosed at one of their service centers?
thanks again,
baron?


----------



## Cedar-Acres

KiwiBro said:


> Thanks for that. I figured that despite the SpeedPro issues, those who had the skills and time to tinker would prefer to save some bucks buying this splitter and get at it, secure in the knowledge that thanks to this thread, forewarned is forearmed. the savings are not insignificant, if a buyer has the nous and time, and can handle the downtime when the splitter is being modified.



Granted, downtime isn’t a big issue for me since I am not running a firewood business. But then again, I haven’t really had enough “downtime for mods” to really matter even for a business. I have re-tensioned the return springs using the adjustments built into the unit and sharpened the wedge. That took all of 15 minutes total. Then yesterday evening I tackled the cam mod. I removed both covers which required removing the handle, and then removed the cam. The holes in the flywheels line up to allow easy access to the cam pivot bolt and I had it out in no time. I noticed the holes in the frame that the pivot bolt mounts in are too big and allow too much slop in the cam movement, I might install some bushings at a later time. I marked the point the cam contacted the stop bar before removing it, then used my angle grinder to make a 1/16” groove at that location. Then I put it all back together after greasing the flywheel bearings and the rack. When testing after the mod it seemed to me that the cam was easier to engage, maybe because it is going further over-center and is locking in place more securely. The machine cycled well and the cam released properly. I split a few rounds and will test it on the nasty stuff this weekend if it doesn’t rain. All told, this mod took no more than 45 minutes to accomplish, so I have about 1 hour in “downtime for mods”.


----------



## tspot100

Cedar-Acres said:


> Granted, downtime isn’t a big issue for me since I am not running a firewood business. But then again, I haven’t really had enough “downtime for mods” to really matter even for a business. I have re-tensioned the return springs using the adjustments built into the unit and sharpened the wedge. That took all of 15 minutes total. Then yesterday evening I tackled the cam mod. I removed both covers which required removing the handle, and then removed the cam. The holes in the flywheels line up to allow easy access to the cam pivot bolt and I had it out in no time. I noticed the holes in the frame that the pivot bolt mounts in are too big and allow too much slop in the cam movement, I might install some bushings at a later time. I marked the point the cam contacted the stop bar before removing it, then used my angle grinder to make a 1/16” groove at that location. Then I put it all back together after greasing the flywheel bearings and the rack. When testing after the mod it seemed to me that the cam was easier to engage, maybe because it is going further over-center and is locking in place more securely. The machine cycled well and the cam released properly. I split a few rounds and will test it on the nasty stuff this weekend if it doesn’t rain. All told, this mod took no more than 45 minutes to accomplish, so I have about 1 hour in “downtime for mods”.



i also thought the cam bolt was too small. i called speeco and e-mailed rich on this forum and were told by both of them that the hole is larger than the bolt by design and to leave it alone. hmmm???? interesting. i think the hole will get enlarged over time from each time the 5" bolt slams up and down with each cycle.


----------



## Cedar-Acres

tspot100 said:


> i also thought the cam bolt was too small. i called speeco and e-mailed rich on this forum and were told by both of them that the hole is larger than the bolt by design and to leave it alone. hmmm???? interesting. i think the hole will get enlarged over time from each time the 5" bolt slams up and down with each cycle.



I am thinking the same thing about the holes getting enlarged into an oval. My idea is to measure the bolt size and the hole size and get brass bushings to fit. That will take out the excessive play and will add a replaceable wear surface without changing the original hole size in case I need to return it to factory specs.

Anyone have any ideas as to why it should be left as it is with so much slop in the cam movement?


----------



## Cerran

It really sounds like this unit has horrible QC on their parts and if they are claiming the hole is made that much bigger on purpose someone in their machine design team needs to be fired. Holes are typically only drilled 1/16" over on most applications sometimes and 1/8" if there are potential fit-up issues.


----------



## philwillmt

Cedar-Acres said:


> I am thinking the same thing about the holes getting enlarged into an oval. My idea is to measure the bolt size and the hole size and get brass bushings to fit. That will take out the excessive play and will add a replaceable wear surface without changing the original hole size in case I need to return it to factory specs.
> 
> Anyone have any ideas as to why it should be left as it is with so much slop in the cam movement?



Because there is a lack of quality control, and SpeeCo won't admit to it...plain and simple! In other words, sloppy workmanship!


----------



## philwillmt

tspot100 said:


> thanks for the reply. did speeco take your word for it that the flywheels were out of balance or was it diagnosed at one of their service centers?
> thanks again,
> baron?



They took my word for it. It would be hard to deny given the amount of lope that the machine had...it was bouncing up and down over an inch! The "other" brand of splitter that I purchased after returning the SpeedPro is steady as a rock at any speed...exactly the way it should be if everything is balanced properly!


----------



## EstEng

*Kinetic*

Hello!
Proud to present: Made in Estonia ( this is in Europe)

Mechanical flywheel log splitter - YouTube

Engineered by me (thanks to Youtube and dr)

All questions and suggestions are welcome.

This is ready-for production prototype nr1, we have little different nr 2, too

For proportions: knife height is approx 12 inch ( 30cm )
Wood is pine tree

Regards
Peeter


----------



## Como

Interesting, which markets are you looking at? I noticed when I was in the UK there seemed nothing similar.

What size engine, what stroke, looks like 600mm?


----------



## EstEng

Como said:


> Interesting, which markets are you looking at? I noticed when I was in the UK there seemed nothing similar.
> 
> What size engine, what stroke, looks like 600mm?



Hello
Yes, this is interesting issue, I can not found this type of splitters in all Europe, too.. so we made it.

This is heavy machinery and this is long way to UK, but everything is possible. 
Some guards or covers or 2 hand switch must be invented for CE mark, but we do not want to make all process too slow. 

Stroke on this red item is 700+ mm, little space is needed to ensure proper gear engagement.
Motor is 3kW/ 3 phase ... and this is more then enough. Test machine no2 has less then 1kW /3phase motor and only difference is acceleration time at start... 1,5 sec or 2,5-3 sec. Flywheels are doing the job. Our flywheels are bigger and slower then this US made machines and this looks good.
Regards
Peeter


----------



## philwillmt

EstEng said:


> Hello!
> Proud to present: Made in Estonia ( this is in Europe)
> 
> Mechanical flywheel log splitter - YouTube
> 
> Engineered by me (thanks to Youtube and dr)
> 
> All questions and suggestions are welcome.
> 
> This is ready-for production prototype nr1, we have little different nr 2, too
> 
> For proportions: knife height is approx 12 inch ( 30cm )
> Wood is pine tree
> 
> Regards
> Peeter



In all due respect...not impressed!


----------



## Hddnis

EstEng said:


> Hello
> Yes, this is interesting issue, I can not found this type of splitters in all Europe, too.. so we made it.
> 
> This is heavy machinery and this is long way to UK, but everything is possible.
> Some guards or covers or 2 hand switch must be invented for CE mark, but we do not want to make all process too slow.
> 
> Stroke on this red item is 700+ mm, little space is needed to ensure proper gear engagement.
> Motor is 3kW/ 3 phase ... and this is more then enough. Test machine no2 has less then 1kW /3phase motor and only difference is acceleration time at start... 1,5 sec or 2,5-3 sec. Flywheels are doing the job. Our flywheels are bigger and slower then this US made machines and this looks good.
> Regards
> Peeter







Sounds like you have a little work to do, but are well on the way to a production ready machine.





Mr. HE


----------



## tspot100

*speedpro update*

finally dropped my speedpro off at an authorized service center yesterday for a flywheel swap..he quoted me 3 weeks...said speeco isn't the most responsive company when warranty issues arise. he had a 2nd speedpro there in pieces which had broken the rack..never had the retrofit.
will let you know how it runs when it is finished.
aside from the wobble..this thing splits like a champ


----------



## 3fordasho

a while back I reported the local TSC had a couple updated units out front. Soon after they disappeared and I assumed they either sold or were sent to another store. Over the weekend I was back looking for something unrelated and somehow got to talking about splitters. Turns out the Speedpros are still there but they don't function properly after the updates were installed (they worked fine before) by a local repair shop. I got the impression that the store manager didn't know what to do with them at this point. Sounds like the push bar/rack was not returning and getting bound up.


----------



## ByronMill

*Belt drive on speedPro versus other mfg.*

I have read most of the posts in the LONG thread, but not all so I may have missed any previous discussion on this. Questions/observations I have about the belt drive setup. I have seen photos of the drive setup on the DR and The Wood Wolf and they both have no grooves in the flywheel on the drive side. They are just using the friction of the bottom on the belts to drive the flywheels. From the limited photos of the SuperSplit that I have found it looks like that may also be the case there. Can any of the SS owners here confirm that? Anyone can provide photos (or a link to posts here) showing the drive on a SS?

My experiences tells me that the drive setup on the DR and WoodWolf would have a significant "slip factor" when the drive hit a dead stop such as a knot or overload. This would provide some limited overload protection for the system. The SpeedPro has actual v-grooves machined into the driven flywheel. While this is a good drive design as far as transferring torque, it would by design eliminate that slip factor of the other "poor" design. Anyone else think this may be a factor in some of the breakage problems or traumatic disengagement of the drive linkage? Another point is that by machining the grooves in the flywheel the effective diameter of the driven "pulley" is smaller, causing the pinion shaft to run slightly faster. Not a huge issue, but it seems pinion speed is quite a bit faster on the SpeedPro than the others. The photos showing the pulley on the engine look like it is quite a bit bigger diameter than the ones on the DR and WoodWolf for sure, and likely the SS from what I can see. Flywheels running that much faster would be a huge increase in force applied to the pinion/rack interface and could be part of the cause for tooth damage. Running engine slower on the SpeedPro would reduce that force down to the same levels that would be seen on the other units running engine at full speed because of greater reduction ratio on the drive. In the end it is about weight of the flywheels and RPM to determine force applied. Slowing down engine and lubing the centrifugal clutch to encourage slippage to me is addreessing the symptoms, not the problem. I think this is where the belt slippage may come in on the other units. Centrifugal clutches are not designed to be used for overload slippage protection. They are supposed to be fully locked in when engaged at operating speed and fully disengaged when below engagement speed. Metal on metal surfaces will quickly wear if forced into a repeated slippage condition.

Does anyone have the details about the diameters of the flwheel/pulley setups on the other manufacturers to compare to what the SpeedPro is equipped with? How about the pitch of the pinion and rack Anyone measure the teeth per inch on the rack? (not the same as pitch, but can be used to determine diametral pitch). How many teeth on the pinion shaft for each manufacturer and the OD of the pinion shaft?

Just food for thought and to spark some more conversation. I just saw the SpeedPro for the first time at my local TSC. I found this thread and am interested in the SpeedPro even though it may need some tinkering and possible redesign. The inertia/kinetic concept is well proven and there seems to be no reason this unit cannot be as functional as any of the others.


----------



## D&B Mack

ByronMill said:


> I have read most of the posts in the LONG thread ... The inertia/kinetic concept is well proven and there seems to be no reason this unit cannot be as functional as any of the others.



I have the rapid fire. Had an issue for a little while and was running with the cover off for a while to diagnose. The belts don't really slip, the clutch lets out first.


----------



## tspot100

sunfish said:


> After all that research, why did you buy one?



uhh..because the price was right and only a small portion of the feedback was negative. it splits extremely well and i would buy another..hmm two of em would be nice but i could get a supersplit for the price of two speedpros. i have yet to find a round it will not split on the first try. the largest round so far, i could not get my arms around. like butter...


----------



## philwillmt

ByronMill said:


> I have read most of the posts in the LONG thread, but not all so I may have missed any previous discussion on this. Questions/observations I have about the belt drive setup. I have seen photos of the drive setup on the DR and The Wood Wolf and they both have no grooves in the flywheel on the drive side. They are just using the friction of the bottom on the belts to drive the flywheels. From the limited photos of the SuperSplit that I have found it looks like that may also be the case there. Can any of the SS owners here confirm that? Anyone can provide photos (or a link to posts here) showing the drive on a SS?
> 
> My experiences tells me that the drive setup on the DR and WoodWolf would have a significant "slip factor" when the drive hit a dead stop such as a knot or overload. This would provide some limited overload protection for the system. The SpeedPro has actual v-grooves machined into the driven flywheel. While this is a good drive design as far as transferring torque, it would by design eliminate that slip factor of the other "poor" design. Anyone else think this may be a factor in some of the breakage problems or traumatic disengagement of the drive linkage? Another point is that by machining the grooves in the flywheel the effective diameter of the driven "pulley" is smaller, causing the pinion shaft to run slightly faster. Not a huge issue, but it seems pinion speed is quite a bit faster on the SpeedPro than the others. The photos showing the pulley on the engine look like it is quite a bit bigger diameter than the ones on the DR and WoodWolf for sure, and likely the SS from what I can see. Flywheels running that much faster would be a huge increase in force applied to the pinion/rack interface and could be part of the cause for tooth damage. Running engine slower on the SpeedPro would reduce that force down to the same levels that would be seen on the other units running engine at full speed because of greater reduction ratio on the drive. In the end it is about weight of the flywheels and RPM to determine force applied. Slowing down engine and lubing the centrifugal clutch to encourage slippage to me is addreessing the symptoms, not the problem. I think this is where the belt slippage may come in on the other units. Centrifugal clutches are not designed to be used for overload slippage protection. They are supposed to be fully locked in when engaged at operating speed and fully disengaged when below engagement speed. Metal on metal surfaces will quickly wear if forced into a repeated slippage condition.
> 
> Does anyone have the details about the diameters of the flwheel/pulley setups on the other manufacturers to compare to what the SpeedPro is equipped with? How about the pitch of the pinion and rack Anyone measure the teeth per inch on the rack? (not the same as pitch, but can be used to determine diametral pitch). How many teeth on the pinion shaft for each manufacturer and the OD of the pinion shaft?
> 
> Just food for thought and to spark some more conversation. I just saw the SpeedPro for the first time at my local TSC. I found this thread and am interested in the SpeedPro even though it may need some tinkering and possible redesign. The inertia/kinetic concept is well proven and there seems to be no reason this unit cannot be as functional as any of the others.



The SuperSplit does not have grooves in the driven pulley. For what it's worth, I can tell you from experience that there is no comparison between the quality of a SpeedPro and a SuperSplit! This is one of those cases where you get what you pay for.


----------



## TFPace

*SpeedPro's on sale*

I was at TSC yesterday and there were two SpeedPro machines on sale for $1,399.00


View attachment 241201
View attachment 241202


----------



## ByronMill

*SpeedPro pricing*



TFPace said:


> I was at TSC yesterday and there were two SpeedPro machines on sale for $1,399.00
> 
> 
> View attachment 241201
> View attachment 241202



The price was marked down the same at the TSC store that I saw them at. The two machines were sitting in the outside lot and had been there for a while based on the amount of rust on exposed parts.


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## tspot100

*speedpro update*

finally heard from the repair shop replacing the flywheels. the parts were shipped along with a service bullitin stating:
tractor Supply Co will no longer carry the speedpro model and all owners of this machiene can return their machiene to speeco for full refund. sounds like they are stopping production..if that is the case, parts in the future will be hard to come by. i'll probably send it back. what if i need a rack or some other part in the future????i'll call speco later today. looks like supersplit may have another sale here as i have no tolerance for the slow hydraulic splitters....


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## 3fordasho

That's too bad, even though I have a SuperSplit now that I am happy with, the towing cabability of the SpeedPro unit is something I wish I could do with the SS.





tspot100 said:


> finally heard from the repair shop replacing the flywheels. the parts were shipped along with a service bullitin stating:
> tractor Supply Co will no longer carry the speedpro model and all owners of this machiene can return their machiene to speeco for full refund. sounds like they are stopping production..if that is the case, parts in the future will be hard to come by. i'll probably send it back. what if i need a rack or some other part in the future????i'll call speco later today. looks like supersplit may have another sale here as i have no tolerance for the slow hydraulic splitters....


----------



## D&B Mack

3fordasho said:


> That's too bad, even though I have a SuperSplit now that I am happy with, the towing cabability of the SpeedPro unit is something I wish I could do with the SS.



Doesn't SS offer a tow package?


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## philwillmt

D&B Mack said:


> Doesn't SS offer a tow package?



Not any more, but they did at one time from what I am told.


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## tspot100

spoke w speeco. they still plan on making the speedpro but will not be selling them at tractor supply. i was assured that parts will be available for many years to come..the redesigned, balanced parts that is...looking into the SS...


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## Jester3775

tspot100 said:


> spoke w speeco. they still plan on making the speedpro but will not be selling them at tractor supply. i was assured that parts will be available for many years to come..the redesigned, balanced parts that is...looking into the SS...



At this point in the game, can we really rely on anything Speeco says ?
And why won't they be carried at Tractor Supply ?
Where would you even go to get parts then, who is going to carry them ?


----------



## csmith

*speedpro update*

speeco is still manufacturing the speedpro they will be available in other locations within the year .tractor supply will not handle them anymore.I have had no trouble getting parts.other than the upgrade , the only part I had to replace was the casting and bearing on the drive side .speeco will get this figured out . hang in there .I have split logs up to 30" with no problems.if speeco would install a smaller pulley ,it would make the splitter perform better and safer


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## tspot100

well..heres the speedpro update: you all can say i told you so....
bought 4/28/12. out of balance and to the repair shop for new flywheels 5/5/12. got it back 2 1/2 months later.
runs better but only one flywheel was replaced. deicided to split wood before bringing to another repair center when it failed last nite.
the rack is stuck in the extended position. there is nothing blocking it's travel, the 4 roller bearings on the plate that slides on the tongue are shot. will not budge forward or backward. i have had enough of this. it's going back to tractor supply. will look into a wood wolf or supersplit. will never go back to hydro however..the speed of these things ruined me... split mabey 4 cords...serious quality issues .......


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## BSD

tspot100 said:


> well..heres the speedpro update: you all can say i told you so....
> bought 4/28/12. out of balance and to the repair shop for new flywheels 5/5/12. got it back 2 1/2 months later.
> runs better but only one flywheel was replaced. deicided to split wood before bringing to another repair center when it failed last nite.
> the rack is stuck in the extended position. there is nothing blocking it's travel, the 4 roller bearings on the plate that slides on the tongue are shot. will not budge forward or backward. i have had enough of this. it's going back to tractor supply. will look into a wood wolf or supersplit. will never go back to hydro however..the speed of these things ruined me... split mabey 4 cords...serious quality issues .......



I know you have a sour taste in your mouth but... take a sledge and beat the head back or remove the bolts that have the bearings on them since they need to be replaced. there are slivers of wood wedged under it. bearings are replaceable.


----------



## KiwiBro

csmith said:


> speeco is still manufacturing the speedpro


If only. I doubt they were ever manufacturing it, rather buying it in with their logo plastered on it. Whoever runs the quality control in their importing arm needs to be shown the door (and probably those who are supposed to be keeping an eye on them too)


----------



## salto_jorge

This has happened to us more than once.


----------



## salto_jorge

This has happened to us more than once.
Slivers of wood/bark can get caught between the stainless plate and brass bottom of the push plate. This should not infer that the bearings are worn or need to be replaced. We have found that a sledge is a tool you should carry with you. Use the sledge when the log is stuck on the wedge, also use it when slivers get caught in the push plate/ram gap.


----------



## salto_jorge

Has anyone been in contact with speeco and knows for sure that the kenetic splitters will still be sold ?
Are parts available for any existing splitters that were not returned to TSupply ?


----------



## BSD

I have emailed my contact @ Speeco asking for more information.


----------



## redprospector

csmith said:


> speeco will get this figured out . hang in there .



Speeco should have had it "figured out" before they ever put it on the market! They are using us as their "Research & Development Department". 
If the manufacturer of your vehicle (car or truck) sold you a product with as much quality built in as Speeco has, you'd have a different outlook I bet.

Andy


----------



## TFPace

I feel the same way concerning Speeco. I have had zero problems with our splitter. The guys love it and the productivity of this machine is AWESOME. I have two hydraulic splitters and they see hardly any use except for the too large to handle rule for the kinetic.

Speeco had some of their people chime in every now and again to let people know what was going on. I have not seen this happen lately. The repair shop that did mine has 4 SpeedPro units that were repaired just sitting. I may buy another to have as a back up. 

The inconsistency in quality has been the downfall of this machine IMO. The trailer-ability of this splitter is a must for me. I "get" why DR builds their machine for the wood splitter who want to move around his yard, that is a model that doesn't get it for me. 

With the SpeedPro it is hooked to a Kubota RTV or Toyota PU. Split the wood, pitch it into the bed and drive off. Oh well!


----------



## csmith

salto_jorge said:


> This has happened to us more than once.
> Slivers of wood/bark can get caught between the stainless plate and brass bottom of the push plate. This should not infer that the bearings are worn or need to be replaced. We have found that a sledge is a tool you should carry with you. Use the sledge when the log is stuck on the wedge, also use it when slivers get caught in the push plate/ram gap.



Rather than hitting the ram ,just shut down engine and turn the pulley backwards and remove the wood splinters.Hitting the ram could damage the rack.


----------



## tspot100

i checked it out before i brought it back. there were no wood chips under the rack, only 2 of the bearings were seized. i will be smiling when i pick up it's replacement (supersplit) next week
i spoke w speeco numerous times about this product. only 600 were sold and almost all have been returned. they will keep making parts for those machines still out there..they are "re-vamping" the speedpro for sale at a later date. when it worked..it split very well. split anything i could hoist onto it...even the biggies.


----------



## philwillmt

tspot100 said:


> i checked it out before i brought it back. there were no wood chips under the rack, only 2 of the bearings were seized. i will be smiling when i pick up it's replacement (supersplit) next week
> i spoke w speeco numerous times about this product. only 600 were sold and almost all have been returned. they will keep making parts for those machines still out there..they are "re-vamping" the speedpro for sale at a later date. when it worked..it split very well. split anything i could hoist onto it...even the biggies.



You will NOT be disappointed with a SuperSplit!


----------



## KiwiBro

redprospector said:


> They are using us as their "Research & Development Department".


Also as the marketing department...for Super Split, and to a lesser extent perhaps, DR. 

Way to go, Speeco. You sure know how to hand it to your competitors on a silver plate! 

All this is probably of little consolation to the long suffering Speed Pro early adopters, and to them I say thanks for buying this POS and posting of your experiences with it. In another time you would have been richly rewarded for the perceived risks of buying on faith, with a product that was actually fit for purpose, but this time it seems not. Without your contributions in this forum many more of us would be in the same boat as you are.


----------



## TFPace

I just wait for my machine to fall apart. We work it weekly and it has given zero problems:msp_biggrin: 
I looks like BSD and me are the only guys who have had little issues with our machines and we this aren't splitters that get used 10hrs/year.


----------



## KiwiBro

TFPace said:


> I just wait for my machine to fall apart. We work it weekly and it has given zero problems:msp_biggrin:
> I looks like BSD and me are the only guys who have had little issues with our machines and we this aren't splitters that get used 10hrs/year.


Life would be less interesting without statistical anomalies, blind luck and so forth.


----------



## csmith

tspot100 said:


> i checked it out before i brought it back. there were no wood chips under the rack, only 2 of the bearings were seized. i will be smiling when i pick up it's replacement (supersplit) next week
> i spoke w speeco numerous times about this product. only 600 were sold and almost all have been returned. they will keep making parts for those machines still out there..they are "re-vamping" the speedpro for sale at a later date. when it worked..it split very well. split anything i could hoist onto it...even the biggies.



when your ss is engaged does the cam go over center? also how much up and down movement is there between the rack and pinion gear? Does it ever disengage?


----------



## jtmcclain

Long time lurker, first time poster. I found one of these on Craigslist for $1000. Called the guy and offered him $600, he countered with $725. It was brand new, never had gas or oil in it. All updates installed. The guy owns a small engine shop and had gotten the machine from TSC to apply the updates and TSC evidently didn't want the machine back. Split half a cord last night with it in about 30 minutes with the wife. Only had the handle kick back one time. I opened the case today and found one of the flywheel bearings had almost no grease in it. Took off the safety button and I am going to make a different handle for it, but overall I am happy with the machine. Oh yeah, I towed it down the highway 30 miles to get it home and it towed fine. Looks like all the bolts are raw steel, so I will be replacing them soon so they don't rust. I think I will have work bend me up an larger outfeed table also.

Joe


----------



## KiwiBro

csmith said:


> when your ss is engaged does the cam go over center?


 Yes, slightly. I haven't measured my SS and I'm about 150 miles from it at the mo' but the bearing goes slightly passed center.


csmith said:


> Does it ever disengage?


 Yes. I've given mine hell in the name of finding it's limits and there are times when the force is too great and applied so fast that it just pops the engage bearing back before the belts slip and most definately before the revs have slowed enough to let the clutch slip. Not often though. Usually it will just bog down and the belts will slip and at that stage, possibly only 1/2 dozen times in a few hundred cords, it may stall if the belts don't slip enough and I don't get to the handle to manually disengage in time. I have the belts just on the loose side of just about right to avoid this.


----------



## agstr

*money isn't the problem*

Live free or die, made sense then and still does -- stop buying into commie/'corrupt capitalist' destruction of our economy -- ever see what life is like for people constrained to work for $1/day? Pray your children won't be up against it due to our short sighted greed.


----------



## dwost

*Just returned mine*

Hi all, 

Thought I'd provide everyone with an update and some things I found out along the way that may help others out. I too was one of the early adopters that bought one as soon as they were released last year. I bought mine last September and I have to say it has worked great for me over the past year. About two weeks ago I came back to the forums to see if there were any updates in the issues people were having and was shocked to read about all the problems. I'm not a heavy user but I do split a couple cords per year and I actually just split two cords for the upcoming winter without issue. 

I decided to hit speecos site and as mentioned there was no information at all about the splitter. I then called the number someone posted to their customer service department. After chatting with the rep who was very helpful he confirmed I had two options. One was to take it to a service center and get the upgraded rack and parts or take it back to TSC for a full refund. All that is needed is the receipt. I specifically asked him about parts availability moving forward, to which he answered it was doubtfull they would be available...RED FLAG. 

With that I then called a local service center and had a great conversation with the woman that handles all their warranty claims. I explained the situation and she was well aware of the fix. I asked her the same question about parts and her recommendation on whether I should take the chance moving forward. Her response....TAKE IT BACK. She stated while they have fixed several of the splitters and have not had anyone issues the real concern is parts availability for the future. Personally I don't want to be stuck with a $1,600 piece of steel 10 years down the road.

I then decided to just stop into TSC and see if they would take it back. After explaining the situation and what I was told by speeco CS he made a couple calls and verified that they would take them back for a full refund with a recept regardless of purchase date. I went back the next day with my receipt and they proceeded to give me a full refund. Mine was over a year old and they took it no questions asked. My suggestion to anyone who has one is to return it and go with something else. I think with the sale going on I'll be going with the DR Pro-XL.


----------



## Jules083

dwost said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Thought I'd provide everyone with an update and some things I found out along the way that may help others out. I too was one of the early adopters that bought one as soon as they were released last year. I bought mine last September and I have to say it has worked great for me over the past year. About two weeks ago I came back to the forums to see if there were any updates in the issues people were having and was shocked to read about all the problems. I'm not a heavy user but I do split a couple cords per year and I actually just split two cords for the upcoming winter without issue.
> 
> I decided to hit speecos site and as mentioned there was no information at all about the splitter. I then called the number someone posted to their customer service department. After chatting with the rep who was very helpful he confirmed I had two options. One was to take it to a service center and get the upgraded rack and parts or take it back to TSC for a full refund. All that is needed is the receipt. I specifically asked him about parts availability moving forward, to which he answered it was doubtfull they would be available...RED FLAG.
> 
> With that I then called a local service center and had a great conversation with the woman that handles all their warranty claims. I explained the situation and she was well aware of the fix. I asked her the same question about parts and her recommendation on whether I should take the chance moving forward. Her response....TAKE IT BACK. She stated while they have fixed several of the splitters and have not had anyone issues the real concern is parts availability for the future. Personally I don't want to be stuck with a $1,600 piece of steel 10 years down the road.
> 
> I then decided to just stop into TSC and see if they would take it back. After explaining the situation and what I was told by speeco CS he made a couple calls and verified that they would take them back for a full refund with a recept regardless of purchase date. I went back the next day with my receipt and they proceeded to give me a full refund. Mine was over a year old and they took it no questions asked. My suggestion to anyone who has one is to return it and go with something else. I think with the sale going on I'll be going with the DR Pro-XL.



I took mine back a while ago and bought a super split, couldn't be happier with it. 

I liked the speeco, I wish it would have turned out better. The supersplit is a better built machine by far. 

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk 2


----------



## csmith

TFPace said:


> I just wait for my machine to fall apart. We work it weekly and it has given zero problems:msp_biggrin:
> I looks like BSD and me are the only guys who have had little issues with our machines and we this aren't splitters that get used 10hrs/year.



have you made any modifications to your speedpro? what speed do you run the engine?


----------



## sunfish

dwost said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I then decided to just stop into TSC and see if they would take it back. After explaining the situation and what I was told by speeco CS he made a couple calls and verified that they would take them back for a full refund with a recept regardless of purchase date. I went back the next day with my receipt and they proceeded to give me a full refund. Mine was over a year old and they took it no questions asked. My suggestion to anyone who has one is to return it and go with something else. I think with the sale going on I'll be going with the DR Pro-XL.



I highly recommend the Super Split. DR is having some issues also...


----------



## BSD

csmith said:


> have you made any modifications to your speedpro? what speed do you run the engine?


i run a reversed handle and removed safety button. we run the machine @ 2600-2700 rpm only. We grease the rack and spray the clutch with fluid film so they slip like they're designed to.

We have split over 55 full cords with our machine.


----------



## TFPace

Hello CSMITH,

My mods are like BSD's. I need to try Fluid Film's products too.

I have no complaints about my machine either.


----------



## csmith

BSD said:


> i run a reversed handle and removed safety button. we run the machine @ 2600-2700 rpm only. We grease the rack and spray the clutch with fluid film so they slip like they're designed to.
> 
> We have split over 55 full cords with our machine.



Did you change the engagement cam so it goes slightly over center?


----------



## BSD

Yes, I was one of the first to make that discovery when i reversed my handle. my original design was didn't take it into account and I had to make another to get the pin forward.


----------



## 21ACREWOODS

I saved a couple from the crusher. Anyone with a machining and design background knows even a new rack and pinion, which would be by far the most expensive items that could ever fail and with the new heat treated racks probably never will, wouldn't equate the the additional cost of some other brands of kinetic splitters. These things are built so simplistically that with minor design upgrades as the cheap bearings fail and the weak links are found, a guy could keep one of these things running for years and years as a splitter to use for making wood to heat your home with. With a redesigned head plate and bearing housing, along with proper adjustments made to reduce flywheel rpm, the two I have are working awesome and anyone who wants to buy one for $1000 can get a hold of me. I'll have parts or make parts to keep mine, and whoever else wants one, running for at least another 20 years. By then I'll be done heating with wood and I will have saved myself a minimum of 5 hours a year over splitting in slow motion with hydraulics and at not much more cost up front. Super Split obviously builds a tremendous machine and it is probably true that a rising tide does raise all ships, but for these things to be melted down would have been an even bigger waste than the deisel fuel burned to bring 'em across the pond. 
Great thread!
Buy local, not from wal-mart or msc.


----------



## jtmcclain

Well, I hate to say it, but the one I bought for half price has now gone through three different racks. I am now in the process of trying to figure out how to reengineer this so it is reliable. I have only split 2 cord so far. Looks like I will be buying a different rack and pinion and figuring out a way to slow down the flywheels.


----------



## BSD

jtmcclain said:


> Well, I hate to say it, but the one I bought for half price has now gone through three different racks. I am now in the process of trying to figure out how to reengineer this so it is reliable. I have only split 2 cord so far. Looks like I will be buying a different rack and pinion and figuring out a way to slow down the flywheels.




keep RPMs @ 2700 or less
oil the clutch
grease the rack

enjoy.


----------



## TFPace

*Clutch*

BSD,

Please share your method for oiling the clutch. You are using a lube that you use on your snow equipment IIRQ.

Thanks,

Tom


----------



## BSD

its called Fluid Film, just spray into the cover while the belts are spinning.


----------



## csmith

jtmcclain said:


> Well, I hate to say it, but the one I bought for half price has now gone through three different racks. I am now in the process of trying to figure out how to reengineer this so it is reliable. I have only split 2 cord so far. Looks like I will be buying a different rack and pinion and figuring out a way to slow down the flywheels.



did you break teeth or grind them down?


----------



## jtmcclain

RPMS were just enough to engage the clutch. Clutch was lubricated immediately after buying the machine. The two extra replacement kits I received with the machine came with grease for the racks, which I used. It seems to me that when the machine hits a particularly difficult piece of wood the rack lifts up enough for the pinion gear to grind off the teeth on the rack. When this happens there is a loud grinding noise. I read this entire thread before I bought the machine so I knew there was risk involved. Speedco will not send me another rack so I am looking at other options. First thing to do is replace the bolt holding the cam and the welded in rod that acts as a cam stop. These were bent and replaced after the first rack. I am going to .5" rod for the cam bolt and welding in a vertical plate with a nut and bolt to act as an adjustable cam stop.


----------



## Dozer Man

*It's Official...I have jumped ship*

It's been a busy work season. It's been daylight till dark since the days started getting shorter. I just haven't been paying attention to ArboristSite much at all till lately. First thing that caught my eye after catching up was that a couple speedpro owners had recently returned there machines for a full refund. Well that prompted a call to TSC and a talk with the manager. An hour later, he called me back and told me that I could return the machine. Knowing I was gonna have to take it to the service center to have bearings put on the split head. My fault for not taking it in sooner because I already argued with speeco about doing it myself. And probably gonna take a month plus for parts (local bearing shop said they were oddball AND metric and wanted over $100 for 4 bearings). So...after some serious debate, and reading about "lack of future parts" issues in this thread...I returned it last week. Just got the check yesterday. 

I got to split for free last year so I have no regrets, it was a learning experience on how these kinetic splitters work. 
Can't go back to splitting in slow motion...my SS will be here around Thanksgiving. Hopefully crow ain't half bad!!


----------



## 21ACREWOODS

Those bearings could've been replaced with a part #HK-1012 Ina from Motion Industries for about the cost of $4.22/each. These are in stock in Chicago. Make a sleeve to put over the OD and you just got a set of $100 bearings for $16.88 plus shipping in about 3 days or less. If one sets their mind on making a Speedpro work, it will. They are not complex. Don't be afraid to snatch up one of these that are out there on the market used. Mine still has the original bearings on the head. Of course, I could forsee problems with how they were designed and made some preventative upgrades to the head piece. 
Still wondering if anyone is interested in some prints on how to make a jackshaft kit for theirs. This slows down the flywheels by 50% and eliminates stripped racks forever.


----------



## csmith

21ACREWOODS said:


> Those bearings could've been replaced with a part #HK-1012 Ina from Motion Industries for about the cost of $4.22/each. These are in stock in Chicago. Make a sleeve to put over the OD and you just got a set of $100 bearings for $16.88 plus shipping in about 3 days or less. If one sets their mind on making a Speedpro work, it will. They are not complex. Don't be afraid to snatch up one of these that are out there on the market used. Mine still has the original bearings on the head. Of course, I could forsee problems with how they were designed and made some preventative upgrades to the head piece.
> Still wondering if anyone is interested in some prints on how to make a jackshaft kit for theirs. This slows down the flywheels by 50% and eliminates stripped racks forever.



any pictures of your modifications?


----------



## jtmcclain

I am definitely interested in those jackshaft prints.


----------



## TFPace

I spoke to a guy today that has broke the teeth off of two racks. The teeth broke in the same location on both racks. He is saying that the rack isn't fully engaging. This topic has been discussed before IIRC? 
I agree that buying these machines used is a good move. I just picked on up for $500.00.

The broken tooth guy was asking if the tooth could be built up and ground back. My answers is it would quickly fail.

21ACREWOODS, I am interested in your idea too.

Thanks,

Tom


----------



## Hddnis

The teeth on a rack could be built up using welding and then ground to profile. It need the right alloy filler metal. But done right it would end up stronger than the original part. This isn't the sort of repair that just any fab shop could handle, it isn't hard, just needs to be done right. Shops that can do it get paid pretty well for their work. Heavy racks and gearing are repaired this way all the time. Drive gears on cement mixers, housing swing gears on cranes, off highway transmission gears, etc. are all repaired this way all the time. Often much cheaper than a new gear. 

Now, having said that...

The rack on the speeco splitter is probably not worth paying to have worked on. :msp_thumbdn:




Mr. HE


----------



## KiwiBro

Hddnis said:


> The rack on the speeco splitter is probably not worth paying to have worked on. :msp_thumbdn:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. HE


McMaster-Carr


----------



## 21ACREWOODS

*speed kills*

Slow down the flywheel rpm

speed kills.......................................racks


----------



## jtmcclain

As has been said before, the rack is not fully engaging, at least on mine. I have bent bolts that will attest to that. These bolts are the weakest link so the rack lifts up and the pinion grinds down the teeth on the rack. The clutch doesn't have a chance to slip since the bolt gives first. I all think the play in the head doesn't help matters. I believe I read somewhere that the supersplit has 1/16" of play. Mine has 1/4". I will be modifying mine this weekend and will try to post pics if everything works. My problem now is that I do not have a good rack. Anybody know what rack from Mcmaster Carr will work? I have no clue how to figure out what the pitch and tooth count is on the one from speedco.


----------



## Naked Arborist

What is the pitch and face width of the rack on a speedco and a supersplit ? Are they 14 or 20 degrees on the tooth face?


----------



## rancher2

21ACREWOODS said:


> Those bearings could've been replaced with a part #HK-1012 Ina from Motion Industries for about the cost of $4.22/each. These are in stock in Chicago. Make a sleeve to put over the OD and you just got a set of $100 bearings for $16.88 plus shipping in about 3 days or less. If one sets their mind on making a Speedpro work, it will. They are not complex. Don't be afraid to snatch up one of these that are out there on the market used. Mine still has the original bearings on the head. Of course, I could forsee problems with how they were designed and made some preventative upgrades to the head piece.
> Still wondering if anyone is interested in some prints on how to make a jackshaft kit for theirs. This slows down the flywheels by 50% and eliminates stripped racks forever.



I am also interested in some prints of the jackshaft kit and other mods you have done to yours.


----------



## 21ACREWOODS

*Speedpro makes another big pile of splits*

I just went out and split another cord, maybe more, of some maple walnut and part of it was the stump of an old hickory. Let's come up with the final engineering change............jackshaft. I don't have a lot of time to make drawings or even come up with the concept, but if there were people willing to chip in, I would make time. I still feel if we can get fly wheel rpm down to 250 and with the engine running about 2500 all issues with stripped racks will be over. I know some of you have said there is extra clearance between rack and pinion when rack is in fully engaged position. Well, the 2 I own are nice and tight. In order to get rack engaged to full you actually have to press pretty hard to get the cam follower past center because it is number for number with no clearance. 

Gettin close to a flawless machine and lovin it. Maybe the best $800 investment I ever made.

Go Speedpro!!!


----------



## Dozer Man

21ACREWOODS said:


> I just went out and split another cord, maybe more, of some maple walnut and part of it was the stump of an old hickory. Let's come up with the final engineering change............jackshaft. I don't have a lot of time to make drawings or even come up with the concept, but if there were people willing to chip in, I would make time. I still feel if we can get fly wheel rpm down to 250 and with the engine running about 2500 all issues with stripped racks will be over. I know some of you have said there is extra clearance between rack and pinion when rack is in fully engaged position. Well, the 2 I own are nice and tight. In order to get rack engaged to full you actually have to press pretty hard to get the cam follower past center because it is number for number with no clearance.
> 
> Gettin close to a flawless machine and lovin it. Maybe the best $800 investment I ever made.
> 
> Go Speedpro!!!



If you read back through this thread you will find many options for slowing this machine down without adding a jackshaft. The easiest I found was to call SS or DR and order a clutch pulley (make sure of engine shaft size). I believe DR wanted around $75. There drive pulley diameters were substantially smaller than that of the speedpro. This change should put you in the rpm range that you desire. 

Maybe if I only had $800 invested (is that in both machines???) I would feel worse about returning my speedpro. 
21ACRE welcome to the SpeedPro site and welcome to our dilemma....:bang::bang:::censored::bang::bang:


----------



## 21ACREWOODS

*clutch option*

I did read about the other clutches but I was thinking they wouldn't work based on drive belt requirement of flywheel. To be honost I could probably rig up the jackshaft quicker than I could read 900 replies. I would love it if you could save me the reading.

Dozerman thanks for the tip and the welcoming.


----------



## csmith

21ACREWOODS said:


> I did read about the other clutches but I was thinking they wouldn't work based on drive belt requirement of flywheel. To be honost I could probably rig up the jackshaft quicker than I could read 900 replies. I would love it if you could save me the reading.
> 
> Dozerman thanks for the tip and the welcoming.


Hey speeco how about a smaller pulley


----------



## TFPace

*Pulley Diameter*

Does anyone know the pulley diameters O.D. for the following:?


Speeco
DR
SuperSplit


Three inch O.D. is the smallest one I have found and it is a single groove pulley and we use double groove.


----------



## Dozer Man

TFPace said:


> Does anyone know the pulley diameters O.D. for the following:?
> 
> 
> Speeco
> DR
> SuperSplit
> 
> 
> Three inch O.D. is the smallest one I have found and it is a single groove pulley and we use double groove.





If my memory serves me correctly the speeco was 3.625", ss was 1.5", and I think the dr is a little bigger than the ss at like 1.75" or so. I wouldn't trust my memory though...er...what was the question???


----------



## TFPace

Wow,

That's a sizable difference!


----------



## KiwiBro

TFPace said:


> Does anyone know the pulley diameters O.D. for the following:?
> 
> 
> Speeco
> DR
> SuperSplit
> 
> 
> Three inch O.D. is the smallest one I have found and it is a single groove pulley and we use double groove.


Maybe these guys can help, although would 2.55" be small enough?

Surplus Center


----------



## 21ACREWOODS

csmith said:


> Hey speeco how about a smaller pulley



I second that. 

hey......why don't we make our own???


----------



## sunfish

Super Split clutch pulley is right around 2".
I don't remember exactly. But it is somewhere in this thread though.


----------



## Hddnis

I believe the pulleys are part of the centrifugal clutch and the smallest readily available is in the 3" range. SS and DR must by using a spec'd part they get made for them. A guy could make his own by getting a smaller pulley, cutting the big pulley off the clutch, and welding the small one on. All in how much work you want to do. Getting the part ready made from DR or SS would be my vote, and I have a shop full of all the tools needed to make my own.




Mr. HE


----------



## TFPace

I agree with Hddnis on the 3.00" being as small as readily available. I haven't any smaller while looking around on-line. Buying a clutch from either DR or SuperSplit is the easiest route to seeing this modification occur IMO.


----------



## csmith

TFPace said:


> I agree with Hddnis on the 3.00" being as small as readily available. I haven't any smaller while looking around on-line. Buying a clutch from either DR or SuperSplit is the easiest route to seeing this modification occur IMO.



do ss and dr use a double pulley?


----------



## csmith

TFPace said:


> I agree with Hddnis on the 3.00" being as small as readily available. I haven't any smaller while looking around on-line. Buying a clutch from either DR or SuperSplit is the easiest route to seeing this modification occur IMO.



do ss and dr use a double pulley?


----------



## TFPace

CS,

I don't know. Sunfish and others own the SuperSplit. They'll chime in soon

Tom


----------



## sunfish

csmith said:


> do ss and dr use a double pulley?



SS has a double pulley.


----------



## Naked Arborist

naked arborist said:


> what is the pitch and face width of the rack on a speedco and a supersplit ? Are they 14 or 20 degrees on the tooth face?



bump


----------



## TFPace

The SpeedPro's pulley measures 3.50" O.D.

I am certain that somewhere in the nearly 1000 posts on this thread is the O.D. dims for either the SuperSplit or DR.


----------



## KiwiBro

TFPace said:


> The SpeedPro's pulley measures 3.50" O.D.
> 
> I am certain that somewhere in the nearly 1000 posts on this thread is the O.D. dims for either the SuperSplit or DR.




Using this in google:
DR pulley diameter site:arboristsite.com

yields:
http://www.arboristsite.com/firewood-heating-wood-burning-equipment/179047-21.htm#post3389239

saying the DR is 1.75" and $75+shipping.


----------



## sunfish

TFPace said:


> The SpeedPro's pulley measures 3.50" O.D.
> 
> I am certain that somewhere in the nearly 1000 posts on this thread is the O.D. dims for either the SuperSplit or DR.



OK I went a measured mine, again. SS has a 1.75" double pulley on the clutch.

This right here shows one major flaw with the SpeedPro. It's running twice the RPM of the SS...


----------



## TFPace

Thanks Sunfish & Kiwi !!!

Talk about a major flaw. It amazes me that this size difference wasn't caught when this machine was "reverse engineered in China or where-ever it was done.


----------



## sunfish

TFPace said:


> Thanks Sunfish & Kiwi !!!
> 
> Talk about a major flaw. It amazes me that this size difference wasn't caught when this machine was "reverse engineered in China or where-ever it was done.



Yeah, they missed the boat with this one. 

DR actually bought two Super Split machines to copy, so at least they got closer to the original.


----------



## CUCV

The SS "Special edition" has a quad pulley! :msp_tongue:


csmith said:


> do ss and dr use a double pulley?


----------



## csmith

*what next*

I was splitting with my speedpro yesterday . noticed the rack was making a grinding noise. took the splitter apart and found the cam bolt bent. the cam stop was also bent.has anyone else had this happen?


----------



## sunfish

csmith said:


> I was splitting with my speedpro yesterday . noticed the rack was making a grinding noise. took the splitter apart and found the cam bolt bent. the cam stop was also bent.has anyone else had this happen?



This thread is full of bent and broken parts. Best thing you can do is slow the machine down with a smaller drive pulley. Then start replacing parts with higher quality parts. This is if you can't get your money back.


----------



## Dozer Man

sunfish said:


> This thread is full of bent and broken parts. Best thing you can do is slow the machine down with a smaller drive pulley. Then start replacing parts with higher quality parts. This is if you can't get your money back.




At the very least, slow the throttle down to where you are running slightly faster than the engagement rpm!! I believe that is somewhere between 2200-2700 rpm. Until someone changes the drive pulley size, or installs a jackshaft, this is the only option you have to slow these things down. Or...run it wfo and see how long before it self-destructs. 

Oh yeah, and don't forget to lubricate.


----------



## csmith

Dozer Man said:


> At the very least, slow the throttle down to where you are running slightly faster than the engagement rpm!! I believe that is somewhere between 2200-2700 rpm. Until someone changes the drive pulley size, or installs a jackshaft, this is the only option you have to slow these things down. Or...run it wfo and see how long before it self-destructs.
> 
> Oh yeah, and don't forget to lubricate.



engine rpm was 2500, clutch lubricated,rack greased


----------



## Dozer Man

csmith said:


> engine rpm was 2500, clutch lubricated,rack greased



Well alrighty then.....
That just plain sucks...:bang::censored:


----------



## sunfish

csmith said:


> engine rpm was 2500, clutch lubricated,rack greased



Flywheel rpm still too fast.

Seems most folks that bought these have returned for a refund, are you planning to keep yours?


----------



## csmith

sunfish said:


> Flywheel rpm still too fast.
> 
> Seems most folks that bought these have returned for a refund, are you planning to keep yours?



waiting to see what speeco is going to do . if they want to produce a quality product they will fix this .if they want to walk away i will get a refund .


----------



## jtmcclain

Speedpro's rebuild kit included a new cam, cam bolt, and rack, along with grease for the rack. I think they are aware of the bolts bending but there is not much they can do about it besides give you a new bolt. The cam stop on mine bent also. It is a spot welded in rod. You can beat it out with a hammer. A 3/8" bolt is a direct replacement. 

It looks to me like the double pulley on the speedpro clutch is cast as one piece, so I am going to take it in to work and try to turn it down to make a shaft that I can mount smaller pulleys to. It's worth a shot.


----------



## Dozer Man

csmith said:


> waiting to see what speeco is going to do . if they want to produce a quality product they will fix this .if they want to walk away i will get a refund .



They are going to keep giving warranty parts till the warranty runs out, which I believe is a year from the retrofit. Parts for future use, or the lack of, was a big scare for me. I didn't buy this machine as a 2 to 4 year project! I bought it to split wood until the motor was worn out and then put a new motor on it and keep splitting. Granted, I knew there would be maintanance items, just not these kind of issues.

From what I've heard from reading this thread, and talking to speeco, they want to be in the kinetic splitter business. On the other hand, TSC does not. TSC is washing there hands of this machine to the point that they have givin a full refund and are still giving a full refund even after a year. Maybe someday another retailer will market a speeco kinetic splitter. Bet it won't be called SpeedPro. So my guess is they already have there walking shoes on for this one.

Hope there check clears... LOL


----------



## sunfish

csmith said:


> waiting to see what speeco is going to do . if they want to produce a quality product they will fix this .if they want to walk away i will get a refund .



I'd be gettin a refund while you still can...


----------



## csmith

jtmcclain said:


> Speedpro's rebuild kit included a new cam, cam bolt, and rack, along with grease for the rack. I think they are aware of the bolts bending but there is not much they can do about it besides give you a new bolt. The cam stop on mine bent also. It is a spot welded in rod. You can beat it out with a hammer. A 3/8" bolt is a direct replacement.
> 
> It looks to me like the double pulley on the speedpro clutch is cast as one piece, so I am going to take it in to work and try to turn it down to make a shaft that I can mount smaller pulleys to. It's worth a shot.



if it is solid why not turn down to a smaller pulley?


----------



## TFPace

CS,



> if it is solid why not turn down to a smaller pulley?


The isn't enough material to do that in my opinion. I will take one apart and post some photos. There just may be enough material the remove the existing pulley and use an off the shelf (OTS) 1.75" or 2.00" pulley and bore the OTS pulley the fit the clutch and weld back in place along with set screws.


----------



## jtmcclain

TFPace said:


> CS,
> 
> 
> The isn't enough material to do that in my opinion. I will take one apart and post some photos. There just may be enough material the remove the existing pulley and use an off the shelf (OTS) 1.75" or 2.00" pulley and bore the OTS pulley the fit the clutch and weld back in place along with set screws.



I have to agree after taking the clutch off the motor. May have to go with a jackshaft design.


----------



## vinced

I don't have one of these splitters, but have been reading about the problems with them. I too think the flywheel shafts are running to fast. Here is an idea. Could you turn down the clutch pulley where the belt rides? This would make the belt ride down lower in the pulley. I would think if you have enough room to turn the pulley down to a shaft and mount a different pulley, you'd have enough room to turn down the belt surface. Could someone post a picture of this clutch pulley??


----------



## schaaed1

TFPace said:


> Thanks Sunfish & Kiwi !!!
> 
> Talk about a major flaw. It amazes me that this size difference wasn't caught when this machine was "reverse engineered in China or where-ever it was done.



Might not have been caught in China .... but we had big discussions on this flaw and tried to point it out to the Speeco reps (I even think someone called the engineering dept). This was all before Speeco decided that the racks were the issue and not the speed ... heck just a guess but that was probably around page 10-15 of this thread.


----------



## TFPace

vinced said:


> I don't have one of these splitters, but have been reading about the problems with them. I too think the flywheel shafts are running to fast. Here is an idea. Could you turn down the clutch pulley where the belt rides? This would make the belt ride down lower in the pulley. I would think if you have enough room to turn the pulley down to a shaft and mount a different pulley, you'd have enough room to turn down the belt surface. Could someone post a picture of this clutch pulley??



Vince,

I'll try to snap some pictures tomorrow. The problem with your idea, albeit an excellent one , is that the 2-vee pulley that is part of clutch assembly bearing housing. If this make any since. To turn a small drive pulley would in my opinion compromise the integrity of the clutch. The clutch that Speeco used is quite different than the USA clutches I am familiar with.

Look for some pictures tomorrow.

Tom


----------



## csmith

anyone know if kohler makes a 2:1 gear reduction for this engine?


----------



## vinced

TFPace said:


> Vince,
> 
> I'll try to snap some pictures tomorrow. The problem with your idea, albeit an excellent one , is that the 2-vee pulley that is part of clutch assembly bearing housing. If this make any since. To turn a small drive pulley would in my opinion compromise the integrity of the clutch. The clutch that Speeco used is quite different than the USA clutches I am familiar with.
> 
> Look for some pictures tomorrow.
> 
> Tom



If the clutch has the part where the pulley rides on on the OD of the clutch drum, then I can see why you can't turn them down. I would bet SuperSpliter is using a chain sprocket clutch drum and turning it down for a pulley.


----------



## car guy

*speed problem*

i called dr order there clutch part # 29462 bolted on no problems. engine speed at 2800 rpms pinion gear 261 rpms total cycle time 2 sec. only thing is if jams you have to manually disengage handle clutch will slip


----------



## csmith

car guy said:


> i called dr order there clutch part # 29462 bolted on no problems. engine speed at 2800 rpms pinion gear 261 rpms total cycle time 2 sec. only thing is if jams you have to manually disengage handle clutch will slip



what other modifications have you made?


----------



## TFPace

*The right idea*

Car guy has the right idea. If either the DR or SuperSplit will work them the $75.00 or so dollars is the cheapest way out. And I own a machine shop too. I would like to see a photo of the the DR clutch. I am guessing both are using v-belts to drive the fly wheel?


----------



## car guy

no modifications. double v pully 1/2" wide belt grooves. shaft size 3/4" key way 3/16" pulley 1 3/4"


----------



## csmith

car guy said:


> no modifications. double v pully 1/2" wide belt grooves. shaft size 3/4" key way 3/16" pulley 1 3/4"



does the rack disengage when it won't split a piece of wood or does the clutch slip?


----------



## car guy

clutch slips


----------



## sunfish

car guy said:


> i called dr order there clutch part # 29462 bolted on no problems. engine speed at 2800 rpms pinion gear 261 rpms total cycle time 2 sec. only thing is if jams you have to manually disengage handle clutch will slip



With the Super Split you have to manually disengage, just bump the handle down, then pull up for another run at it. 

The violent auto disengage of the speedpro is part of the problem.


----------



## TFPace

*SpeedPro clutch photos*

I have made some pictures of the aforementioned clutch. IMO we are far better off buying a DR clutch to slow this machine down. 


OD of 2-V pulley = 3.51"
OD measured at the buttom of vee is 2.62"

In other words, there is no where enough material available to machine a smaller diameter pulley from this clutch.

View attachment 264104
View attachment 264105
View attachment 264106
View attachment 264107
View attachment 264108


The output shaft is 0.75" which pretty common so I am told.

I am going to order one from DR tomorrow.


----------



## csmith

sunfish said:


> With the Super Split you have to manually disengage, just bump the handle down, then pull up for another run at it.
> 
> The violent auto disengage of the speedpro is part of the problem.



carguy says with dr clutch no disengage


----------



## sunfish

csmith said:


> carguy says with dr clutch no disengage



Yes, the DR clutch seems to have fixed two major problems...


----------



## Dozer Man

:welcome: opcorn: 


Glad to see someone actually tried the DR clutch. Not only that, I'm glad to hear that it worked. 
I only wish someone would have come up with this idea, oh... about 25 or 30 pages ago....LOL.


[I remember one of the times I talked to a speeco rep that said speeco themselves ran into the same "lack of immediate availability" of a clutch with the proper size pulley...so in actuality it was a cost saving deal for them.]


----------



## sunfish

Dozer Man said:


> :welcome: opcorn:



It does seem we've covered all this before. :msp_smile:


----------



## TFPace

*DR clutch part number*

I found this on the DR part manual page 

http://www.drpower.com/CHPContent/content/support/manuals/295221_Rapid_Fire_Splitter_092111.pdf

29462 Clutch, Centrifugal Dual Sheave


----------



## csmith

Dozer Man said:


> :welcome: opcorn:
> 
> 
> Glad to see someone actually tried the DR clutch. Not only that, I'm glad to hear that it worked.
> I only wish someone would have come up with this idea, oh... about 25 or 30 pages ago....LOL.
> 
> 
> [I remember one of the times I talked to a speeco rep that said speeco themselves ran into the same "lack of immediate availability" of a clutch with the proper size pulley...so in actuality it was a cost saving deal for them.]



i wonder if a rack is cheaper than a clutch?


----------



## jtmcclain

csmith said:


> i wonder if a rack is cheaper than a clutch?



We will find out, I have an email in to Shaun at Speeco to find out how much a rack is going to cost me...


----------



## Wally6800

*Spare or replacement parts for the SpeedPRO*

I just tried to get a price on some spare parts for a Speed Pro that was for sale in my neighborhood.

I was told that the only way they would sell spare or replacement parts was if I was the original buyer and I woud have to produce a copy of the orignal purchase receipt. 

I never heard any thing like that from Super Split. One thing for sure, I will never buy a SpeedPRO or any thing else those guys manufacture.

I wonder if that policy has anything to do with Homeland Security????


----------



## jtmcclain

Well, SHaun says I have to take the machine to a service center. Hopefully I can just take the rack in and they will give me a new one. Currently that is the only way to get parts. Great.


----------



## Dozer Man

jtmcclain said:


> Well, SHaun says I have to take the machine to a service center. Hopefully I can just take the rack in and they will give me a new one. Currently that is the only way to get parts. Great.



It was at this point I heard that little voice in my head say... _"I wish I had taken this thing back when I had the chance"._

And what's up with not selling replacement parts for second hand machines? 
That doesn't even make any sense...


----------



## jtmcclain

Rack and pinion should be here in a week. The shop in town offered to sell the two he had in the showroom for very cheap. Both come with an extra rack and pinion.


----------



## daleeper

jtmcclain said:


> Rack and pinion should be here in a week. The shop in town offered to sell the two he had in the showroom for very cheap. Both come with an extra rack and pinion.



Jt, check your pm. Good to hear that someone is able to get parts for these.


----------



## csmith

jtmcclain said:


> Rack and pinion should be here in a week. The shop in town offered to sell the two he had in the showroom for very cheap. Both come with an extra rack and pinion.



this is the first i have heard of a pinion needing replaced. what happened? if tsc was the only supplier, how did the shop have two of them? what was the cost of rack and pinion?


----------



## jtmcclain

The shop owner told me that he replaced the rack on one machine 6 times until he replaced the pinion, then no more problems.

This guy is going to get me the parts under warranty, per speeco. "Authorized service centers" are currently the only way to get parts as far as I know. He got his two machines from TSC.


----------



## Teddy.Scout

Dang,
Were do you find a service center.
I know where there are 2 machines CHEAP, but if parts are NA is it even worth it?


----------



## jtmcclain

I emailed speeco and asked. I am also trying to figure out how to retrofit a commercially bought rack and pinion on this machine. I don't trust the new parts from speeco. Heck they may not even give me new parts even through the service center. Still waiting to hear back.


----------



## csmith

Teddy.Scout said:


> Dang,
> Were do you find a service center.
> I know where there are 2 machines CHEAP, but if parts are NA is it even worth it?



go to speeco website and type in your zip code


----------



## jtmcclain

Just took in an old rack to the tool and die shop at work to check with their gauges. It is an 8 pitch 20 degree rack. McMaster Carr carries this size.


----------



## 21ACREWOODS

*Speedpro is awesome*



Teddy.Scout said:


> Dang,
> Were do you find a service center.
> I know where there are 2 machines CHEAP, but if parts are NA is it even worth it?



What's cheap? I am interested in info on getting a hold of these 2. 

Recently I bought 4 from the scrap yard. Made some mods and resold. These machines are incredibly sought after by the capable man who is tired of "slow motion" splitting. They are so simple in design that a capable man won't let unavailability of factory parts take one of these splitters out of service. With the correct amount of know-how and ambition all parts are repairable or remakeable.

go Speedpro!!!!!!!


----------



## csmith

21ACREWOODS said:


> What's cheap? I am interested in info on getting a hold of these 2.
> 
> Recently I bought 4 from the scrap yard. Made some mods and resold. These machines are incredibly sought after by the capable man who is tired of "slow motion" splitting. They are so simple in design that a capable man won't let unavailability of factory parts take one of these splitters out of service. With the correct amount of know-how and ambition all parts are repairable or remakeable.
> 
> go Speedpro!!!!!!!


I replaced the clutch pulley with a "dr" . I have split 2 hours with zero problems . Some splits took as many as 5 hits . Clutch slipped , no disengagements. No other modifications. All wood was hickory . I think it is fixed.It is a shame speeco couldn't fix this.


----------



## KiwiBro

*70 pages on this thread, 34 pages on the DR thread.*

Why not every poster on both threads chip in $100 to buy a share in a collective venture to produce a kinetic splitter prototype? The skills and experience is there. Appoint a few knowledgeable, capable people to 'get er done' on an all care no responsibility basis, and see what comes out of it?


----------



## Hddnis

KiwiBro said:


> Why not every poster on both threads chip in $100 to buy a share in a collective venture to produce a kinetic splitter prototype? The skills and experience is there. Appoint a few knowledgeable, capable people to 'get er done' on an all care no responsibility basis, and see what comes out of it?





I've got most the parts to put one together now. I'm planning to steal all the best ideas from the two threads and get it set up for my operation.

Road towable, I want to be able to move it down the highway.
Log lift. Not totally sure on this, I've got hydro splitters to bust up big chunks, but it might be nice to have anyway.
Four way wedge. Flip of a lever to raise it up or drop it down.
Lower center of gravity for sure. Really steep country around here. SS is tippy.
Outfeed conveyor, probably fairly short, but enought to pile or load a one ton dump.

There are a few other things that I'm toying with ideas for, but not sure yet. I can make it better for my use, but I don't want to make a swiss monkey. It has to work and not be complicated. 

So, you all send that money this way and I'll share video when I'm done.:msp_biggrin:

At the end of the day though you have SS, a couple of copies, and one chicom contraption. The SS is great for homeowners, really don't see much that needs improving there. Production guys even find SS some of the most productive around in the right system. My goal is to get as many cords as possible from a worker in a day. There are ways to improve a kinetic splitter to make them work even faster producing the kind of firewood I produce.

Probably be a late winter project. Not enough snow yet so I'm stuck doing other things for now.



Mr. HE


----------



## mrnecsteve

I have never seen one of this type of splitter in operation ,until I saw the videos. I'll stick with my 20 year old MTD hydraulic for a number of reasons.
1 two stage hydraulics are not as slow as depicted in the videos ,even on my humble 5 hp powered unit.
2 my splitter operates both vertical and horizontal,there is NO way I would allow myself to get stuck with picking logs up off the ground to put them on a deck. The logs I split and use are 24 inch length minimum ,green and HEAVY.
3 It is rare that my hydraulic needs a full stroke as depicted in the video. Green oak usually splits full length with just 7-8 in travel.


----------



## philwillmt

KiwiBro said:


> Why not every poster on both threads chip in $100 to buy a share in a collective venture to produce a kinetic splitter prototype? The skills and experience is there. Appoint a few knowledgeable, capable people to 'get er done' on an all care no responsibility basis, and see what comes out of it?



I'm in...let's do it!


----------



## Hddnis

mrnecsteve said:


> I have never seen one of this type of splitter in operation ,until I saw the videos. I'll stick with my 20 year old MTD hydraulic for a number of reasons.
> 1 two stage hydraulics are not as slow as depicted in the videos ,even on my humble 5 hp powered unit.
> 2 my splitter operates both vertical and horizontal,there is NO way I would allow myself to get stuck with picking logs up off the ground to put them on a deck. The logs I split and use are 24 inch length minimum ,green and HEAVY.
> 3 It is rare that my hydraulic needs a full stroke as depicted in the video. Green oak usually splits full length with just 7-8 in travel.





Your reasons are not as valid as you think they are. The videos comparing the two types of splitters are dead on with production rates. You need to go time your ram speed and production rate for yourself. Better yet, take a video and show us how fast you are. Using a four way wedge will help you some. Guys with hydro units feel good at the end of the day putting up a few cords of wood. A kinetic splitter can do that in a few hours. 

Between no splitter and a basic hydro unit I'll take the hydro over an axe. But you are never going to match production of a kinetic splitter.

Hydro has a place; they are not going away any time soon. I'm building one right now myself. Of course, it isn't a basic hydro at all, and that's all I'm going to say about that for now. :msp_wink:

I guess in the end if you have a hydro and you are happy, great, good for you. But you can't say "I own X and therefore I know it is better than Y" Guys that own both know better.



Mr. HE


----------



## Hddnis

philwillmt said:


> I'm in...let's do it!




We are kicking this idea around a bit.

My thinking is that when a person puts out money they need to know what they are getting. If there is a chance they get nothing than they need to know that up front.

As mentioned I'm building one with many of the mentioned upgrades. It won't be cheap, but it is set up for commercial production. I'm getting input from several in the business from all over the globe. 

I suggested in a PM with another member that maybe the money would be for a set of plans of the finished unit. I guess if I were chipping in money I'd want to know what I got for it. 

One idea is that there are websites to facilitate this kind of thing. Used mostly by students. I'll look into it and post back in a day or so what I find.

Just thinking out loud here.



Mr. HE


----------



## daleeper

Well I have saved one from the scrap heap, and will need to construct a head for it. Anyone care to send me the proper dimensions for it? 

I would also like to see photos of how the return springs are fastened on the moving end of the ram, and photos of the cam lock mechanism under the guarding so that I can check mine to make sure everything is there and in proper order.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.


----------



## mrnecsteve

Hddnis said:


> Your reasons are not as valid as you think they are. The videos comparing the two types of splitters are dead on with production rates. You need to go time your ram speed and production rate for yourself. Better yet, take a video and show us how fast you are. Using a four way wedge will help you some. Guys with hydro units feel good at the end of the day putting up a few cords of wood. A kinetic splitter can do that in a few hours.
> 
> *I have yet to find logs stacked in neat rows ,ready to be fed into a splitter as in the sales video.
> How do you know what guys with hydro units are feeling?*
> 
> Between no splitter and a basic hydro unit I'll take the hydro over an axe. But you are never going to match production of a kinetic splitter.
> 
> *I dont care if a splitter was powered like a rail gun and split it 10 milliseconds as opposed to 5 seconds. If the wood has to be lifted OFF the ground by hand to feed the splitter, it it will not increase my production.It will slow me down and break my back lifting 20-30 inch wet logs *
> 
> Hydro has a place; they are not going away any time soon. I'm building one right now myself. Of course, it isn't a basic hydro at all, and that's all I'm going to say about that for now. :msp_wink:
> 
> I guess in the end if you have a hydro and you are happy, great, good for you. But you can't say "I own X and therefore I know it is better than Y" Guys that own both know better.
> 
> I can say pretty much whatever I want...I dont need your approval.
> 
> 
> Mr. HE



Why would I want to make a video?
( I am not a sales guy and I am not selling anything.)


----------



## Dozer Man

mrnecsteve said:


> Why would I want to make a video?
> ( I am not a sales guy and I am not selling anything.)



I used to split from the knees. I actually found ArboristSite by researching this exact issue... Splitting verticle or horizontal, which is better?. And after much research, believe it or not, I found horizontal is the preferred method of most. Search the threads, you might find different.

Save the great big stuff to be quartered by the old hydro (actually nobody wants to run it anymore).
My back and knees feel alot better after a day's splitting horizontally. 2-3 seconds of lifting, with the knees not the back, and well the rest is kinda fun. The added fact that using a "kinetic splitter" means that I get 2-3 times the wood split in the same amount of time... _*priceless.*_


----------



## sunfish

Dozer Man said:


> I used to split from the knees. I actually found ArboristSite by researching this exact issue... Splitting verticle or horizontal, which is better?. And after much research, believe it or not, I found horizontal is the preferred method of most. Search the threads, you might find different.
> 
> Save the great big stuff to be quartered by the old hydro (actually nobody wants to run it anymore).
> My back and knees feel alot better after a day's splitting horizontally. 2-3 seconds of lifting, with the knees not the back, and well the rest is kinda fun. The added fact that using a "kinetic splitter" means that I get 2-3 times the wood split in the same amount of time... _*priceless.*_



Working the SS w/work table, standing up straight is priceless. :msp_biggrin:

I load rounds in my truck by hand, if I can't pick em up, they get noodled, or split in half or quartered...

Edit to add; My point is if I load by hand into truck, it's no problem loading onto the SS. by hand...


----------



## Hddnis

mrnecsteve said:


> Why would I want to make a video?
> ( I am not a sales guy and I am not selling anything.)




What you have to sell here is your claims you made. If you have a really fast and easy way to put up wood with a hydro there are many people that can learn from you since they own hydro splitters too. Many will keep what they have for any number of reasons, if they can increase production that would only be a good thing. 

So, that is the positive side. 

The negative is that you made a claim, now you back it up or lose respect.



Mr. HE


----------



## 21ACREWOODS

*new some head*



daleeper said:


> Well I have saved one from the scrap heap, and will need to construct a head for it. Anyone care to send me the proper dimensions for it?
> 
> I would also like to see photos of how the return springs are fastened on the moving end of the ram, and photos of the cam lock mechanism under the guarding so that I can check mine to make sure everything is there and in proper order.
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks.




I just made 4 of these heads. I can save you bunches of time! Better yet..I'll make you one. It'll be "bolt on" ready, $440 plus shipping from OH.


----------



## mrnecsteve

Hddnis said:


> What you have to sell here is your claims you made. If you have a really fast and easy way to put up wood with a hydro there are many people that can learn from you since they own hydro splitters too. Many will keep what they have for any number of reasons, if they can increase production that would only be a good thing.
> 
> So, that is the positive side.
> 
> The negative is that you made a claim, now you back it up or lose respect.
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. HE



No...the video made a claim about drastically increased production and the video has things favoring their setup.
The most subtle thing is the apparent lack of a two stage hydraulic system on the demo hydraulic unit. On my unit the head does not move anywhere near that slow until it contacts the wood.I dont know about other hydro units
The most obvious thing in that video is neatly pre stacked logs ,that are off the ground. The stacking of logs should be counted into overall "productivity" . When I buck logs,they fall to the ground and stay on the ground until I stack the finished pieces. The majority of wood that I split is 12-14 inch white and red oak at 24 inch lengths (as my stove burns 28 inch logs) If i switched to splitting short logs as demo'ed, my bucking time would almost double, I would have to handle almost twice as many pieces to stack and to load up my stove. I dont see any near 30 inch long logs in that video. I dont see any one hefting them onto the horizontal splitter either.
I do see a hydro unit needing to do full strokes in the video ,when in my reality ,its almost never required.I dont (purposely) buck short logs.
A table of calculated logweights from woodweb dot com is in order.

Species: Oak, White Small End Diameter: 12.00 Large End Diameter: 12.00 Length: 1.00' Quantity: 1.00 Estimated Weight:* 52 *
Species: Oak, White Small End Diameter: 12.00 Large End Diameter: 12.00 Length: 2.00' Quantity: 1.00 Estimated Weight:* 104 *
Species: Yellow-poplar Small End Diameter: 12.00 Large End Diameter: 12.00 Length: 1.00' Quantity: 1.00 Estimated Weight:* 35 *
Species: Oak, White Small End Diameter: 14.00 Large End Diameter: 14.00 Length: 2.00' Quantity: 1.00 Estimated Weight: *140 *
Folks should consider what they will be lifting and splitting before buying a unit that will not lower
its base to the ground.
Do you really want to pass on larger tree sizes because the log is too heavy
to lift by yourself? Do you really want to cut the entire length of all the larger logs so that you are able to lift it to split it?
Where is the productivity saveing in that?


----------



## KiwiBro

philwillmt said:


> I'm in...let's do it!


Well, with our collective $200 we might be able to buy some wheels and a few beers at a 'design team meeting'.

Others have suggested, via PM, it could get too political with too many people - you know the sort of 20 chiefs and 1 Indian type of scenario.

So I don't think the idea is going to fly.

Somewhere in cyberspace is a website that allows people to pitch their projects to the online community who then fund them the seed capital. A zillion $10 donater/investors to help get the idea into production. Something like that is what we need. Or perhaps AS could start a good old fashioned swear jar with every AS member adding in $5 for each infraction. We'd be fully funded within a month ;-)


----------



## Sethsfirewood

KiwiBro said:


> Well, with our collective $200 we might be able to buy some wheels and a few beers at a 'design team meeting'.
> 
> Others have suggested, via PM, it could get too political with too many people - you know the sort of 20 chiefs and 1 Indian type of scenario.
> 
> So I don't think the idea is going to fly.
> 
> Somewhere in cyberspace is a website that allows people to pitch their projects to the online community who then fund them the seed capital. A zillion $10 donater/investors to help get the idea into production. Something like that is what we need. Or perhaps AS could start a good old fashioned swear jar with every AS member adding in $5 for each infraction. We'd be fully funded within a month ;-)



interested in this...


----------



## Como

The vast majority of my wood even at 24 inch is something I can lift up.

My needs are:

Up to 30", anything that needs to be split goes into the lower categories.

Up to 24", anything too heavy at this length goes into the lower category.

Up to 18"

As long as you think about it when you are cutting, not a problem.

If I had lots of large diameter stuff then I guess a vertical hydraulic.

I still have a neighbours hydraulic on site, a bruiser with a 4 way split. One of the problems was clearing all the split wood, the way I work the wood stays put when split, the splitter moves. Just takes a few seconds to move it back a few feet and carry on.


----------



## Hddnis

mrnecsteve said:


> No...the video made a claim about drastically increased production and the video has things favoring their setup.
> The most subtle thing is the apparent lack of a two stage hydraulic system on the demo hydraulic unit. On my unit the head does not move anywhere near that slow until it contacts the wood.I dont know about other hydro units
> The most obvious thing in that video is neatly pre stacked logs ,that are off the ground. The stacking of logs should be counted into overall "productivity" . When I buck logs,they fall to the ground and stay on the ground until I stack the finished pieces. The majority of wood that I split is 12-14 inch white and red oak at 24 inch lengths (as my stove burns 28 inch logs) If i switched to splitting short logs as demo'ed, my bucking time would almost double, I would have to handle almost twice as many pieces to stack and to load up my stove. I dont see any near 30 inch long logs in that video. I dont see any one hefting them onto the horizontal splitter either.
> I do see a hydro unit needing to do full strokes in the video ,when in my reality ,its almost never required.I dont (purposely) buck short logs.
> A table of calculated logweights from woodweb dot com is in order.
> 
> Species: Oak, White Small End Diameter: 12.00 Large End Diameter: 12.00 Length: 1.00' Quantity: 1.00 Estimated Weight:* 52 *
> Species: Oak, White Small End Diameter: 12.00 Large End Diameter: 12.00 Length: 2.00' Quantity: 1.00 Estimated Weight:* 104 *
> Species: Yellow-poplar Small End Diameter: 12.00 Large End Diameter: 12.00 Length: 1.00' Quantity: 1.00 Estimated Weight:* 35 *
> Species: Oak, White Small End Diameter: 14.00 Large End Diameter: 14.00 Length: 2.00' Quantity: 1.00 Estimated Weight: *140 *
> Folks should consider what they will be lifting and splitting before buying a unit that will not lower
> its base to the ground.
> Do you really want to pass on larger tree sizes because the log is too heavy
> to lift by yourself? Do you really want to cut the entire length of all the larger logs so that you are able to lift it to split it?
> Where is the productivity saveing in that?




First off, the hydro unit cycle times in the video you are referring to are consistent with a machine equipped with a two-stage pump. It has a two-stage, and it is still slow by comparison. They are using a Swisher 34 ton model, 12.5 HP, two stage pump. Cycle times are either 22 seconds or eighteen seconds. They seem to be available with either 11gpm two-stage pump or a 13gpm two-stage pump, thus the difference in cycle times advertised. 

Here is a link with basic specs on the unit they are using. Swisher Electric Start 34 Ton Log Splitter | Bass Pro Shops 

The fastest widely available hydro splitters have a cycle time of 8-9 seconds. Compared to a DR Rapidfire or a Super Split that is slow in a very real way. Why don't you get us some specs on your 20 year old MTD. What is your pump flow? What size cylinder and rod? What do you guess the cycle time is? I'm guessing that it will be slower than you think it is. That does not make it a bad splitter, or even mean you need a different one. Just some basic facts that you have no provided.


Much of what you are talking about is a workflow issue more than a splitter issue anyway. Your examples cannot be broken down to a hydro vs. kinetic debate for a few simple reasons.

Not everyone works with bigger rounds.
Not everyone with a hydro has a ground level vertical option.
Handling size is limited by the person, not the machine (within practical parameters).

Just as an example round size really doesn't matter to me, my work revolves around dealing with the wood no matter the size. I've made and moved rounds you would have to haul on a truck with oversize load signs unless they were broken up. So the point is it becomes relative. It isn't as much an issue of machine as it an overall look at the logistics of making firewood.

Getting rounds to a splitter, taking the splitter to the rounds, rounds coming from a stack, or rounds being spread on the ground is largely immaterial to splitter production; it can be very important to overall production. I've worked it all ways, rounds dumped in a pile, rounds stacked up in a neat row, make a few rounds and then split them, rounds out of truck, rounds out of a loader, rounds quartered or even eighthed with a saw, you name it and I've probably done it. Splitter time is very important to me and my kinetic splitter is my fastest way of making split firewood. 

It might be a surprise, but I use as little machinery as possible because turning the key takes time and costs money. There are times when it's just me, a saw or two, and a couple of axes. Wham bam, thank you ma'am, and I have another cord of wood to sell. Most recent example was a long straight D. Fir with few branches. Dropped it, homeowner picked up the brush; I just bucked and split and loaded split wood. Couple hours later I left with a bit over a cord of wood to sell later and I got paid to take down the tree. Grossed $200 an hour on that gig. If I'd had a Super Splitter I could tow behind the truck it would have been $400 an hour.

So, it comes back to this. A hydro is often better than an axe but slower than a kinetic. Just simple physics there. If a guy has a trusty hydro unit that is meeting his needs than great, more power to him, I'm happy for him, it's good. 

But if said guy comes along and says "I don't need anything more and I don't believe these other machines that I've no personal experience with work the way other people claim they do." Well, I've got a problem with that. Sure a kinetic might not fit the way _you_ make firewood, but it sure works good for a lot of people, several of whom are in this thread and telling you so.



Mr. HE


----------



## Dozer Man

*Hddnis... very well said!!!*


----------



## 21ACREWOODS

*dr clutch*



jtmcclain said:


> Well, I hate to say it, but the one I bought for half price has now gone through three different racks. I am now in the process of trying to figure out how to reengineer this so it is reliable. I have only split 2 cord so far. Looks like I will be buying a different rack and pinion and figuring out a way to slow down the flywheels.



csmith said he bought a clutch for a dr machine and it cut flywheel rpm by half on his speedpro. It was direct bolt-on, uses same belts and everything. $79 plus shipping


----------



## dwost

*Went with the DR*

Hi All,

Looks like there has been some good activity and also some great "reengineering" happening as well since my last visit! As stated in my earlier post in October I opted for the return/refund option and have since taken delivery of my DR RapidFire XL. Out of the box there are some similarities, however, the build quality on the DR is much better. I've only run a few pieces though it but it's much easier on the body and also way smoother. Once I get some wood through it I'll be sure to post up my findings.


----------



## Dozer Man

You should have read the DR rapidfire threads... you might have made a different decision. Lot's of happy home owners, but mostly disgruntled commercial users.


----------



## dwost

Hey Dozer, I did read them and I do understand there may be some risks but knowing there are parts available and the support is there should be enough. Also, I'm just a homeowner :cool2:


----------



## mrnecsteve

Hddnis said:


> First off, the hydro unit cycle times in the video you are referring to are consistent with a machine equipped with a two-stage pump. It has a two-stage, and it is still slow by comparison. They are using a Swisher 34 ton model, 12.5 HP, two stage pump. Cycle times are either 22 seconds or eighteen seconds. They seem to be available with either 11gpm two-stage pump or a 13gpm two-stage pump, thus the difference in cycle times advertised.
> 
> Here is a link with basic specs on the unit they are using. Swisher Electric Start 34 Ton Log Splitter | Bass Pro Shops
> 
> The fastest widely available hydro splitters have a cycle time of 8-9 seconds. Compared to a DR Rapidfire or a Super Split that is slow in a very real way. Why don't you get us some specs on your 20 year old MTD. What is your pump flow? What size cylinder and rod? What do you guess the cycle time is? I'm guessing that it will be slower than you think it is. That does not make it a bad splitter, or even mean you need a different one. Just some basic facts that you have no provided.
> 
> 
> Much of what you are talking about is a workflow issue more than a splitter issue anyway. Your examples cannot be broken down to a hydro vs. kinetic debate for a few simple reasons.
> 
> Not everyone works with bigger rounds.
> Not everyone with a hydro has a ground level vertical option.
> Handling size is limited by the person, not the machine (within practical parameters).
> 
> Just as an example round size really doesn't matter to me, my work revolves around dealing with the wood no matter the size. I've made and moved rounds you would have to haul on a truck with oversize load signs unless they were broken up. So the point is it becomes relative. It isn't as much an issue of machine as it an overall look at the logistics of making firewood.
> 
> Getting rounds to a splitter, taking the splitter to the rounds, rounds coming from a stack, or rounds being spread on the ground is largely immaterial to splitter production; it can be very important to overall production. I've worked it all ways, rounds dumped in a pile, rounds stacked up in a neat row, make a few rounds and then split them, rounds out of truck, rounds out of a loader, rounds quartered or even eighthed with a saw, you name it and I've probably done it. Splitter time is very important to me and my kinetic splitter is my fastest way of making split firewood.
> 
> It might be a surprise, but I use as little machinery as possible because turning the key takes time and costs money. There are times when it's just me, a saw or two, and a couple of axes. Wham bam, thank you ma'am, and I have another cord of wood to sell. Most recent example was a long straight D. Fir with few branches. Dropped it, homeowner picked up the brush; I just bucked and split and loaded split wood. Couple hours later I left with a bit over a cord of wood to sell later and I got paid to take down the tree. Grossed $200 an hour on that gig. If I'd had a Super Splitter I could tow behind the truck it would have been $400 an hour.
> 
> So, it comes back to this. A hydro is often better than an axe but slower than a kinetic. Just simple physics there. If a guy has a trusty hydro unit that is meeting his needs than great, more power to him, I'm happy for him, it's good.
> 
> But if said guy comes along and says "I don't need anything more and I don't believe these other machines that I've no personal experience with work the way other people claim they do." Well, I've got a problem with that. Sure a kinetic might not fit the way _you_ make firewood, but it sure works good for a lot of people, several of whom are in this thread and telling you so.
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. HE



So is there is isn't there a kinetic log splitter that will work in vertical mode ,with the wood still close to the ground.
If not , they shall always remain worthless to me.

*It is my hope, that anyone considering buying a kinetic will investigate whether it is able to work heavy wood from the ground or not.*


----------



## Como

mrnecsteve said:


> So is there is isn't there a kinetic log splitter that will work in vertical mode ,with the wood still close to the ground.
> If not , they shall always remain worthless to me.
> 
> *It is my hope, that anyone considering buying a kinetic will investigate whether it is able to work heavy wood from the ground or not.*



If that is an issue for someone then it is a factor they need to consider whatever type they are looking at.

Most splitters do not allow that.


----------



## daleeper

Would anyone be willing to take some photos and measurements of the original head, or the one that they have built?

I could really use some help here.


----------



## Como

[video=youtube;rZuy0Py_AZc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZuy0Py_AZc[/video]

There is a video.


----------



## sunfish

mrnecsteve said:


> So is there is isn't there a kinetic log splitter that will work in vertical mode ,with the wood still close to the ground.
> If not , they shall always remain worthless to me.
> 
> *It is my hope, that anyone considering buying a kinetic will investigate whether it is able to work heavy wood from the ground or not.*



That being the case, a kinetic splitter is not for you. :msp_mellow:


----------



## mrnecsteve

Como said:


> If that is an issue for someone then it is a factor they need to consider whatever type they are looking at.
> 
> Most splitters do not allow that.



Home depot sells 12 differant gasoline splitters online....only one is horizontal mode only. 11 are vertical/horizontal.

Lowes sells 6 differant gasoline splitters online, all 6 are vertical/ horizontal


----------



## Dozer Man

mrnecsteve said:


> So is there is isn't there a kinetic log splitter that will work in vertical mode ,with the wood still close to the ground.
> If not , they shall always remain worthless to me.
> 
> *It is my hope, that anyone considering buying a kinetic will investigate whether it is able to work heavy wood from the ground or not.*



For the first part... No vertical kinetic splitter that I know of. Well, there is that youtube video of the one that has wedges welded to a giant (6ft plus) flywheel. Kinda dangerous but I guess it is a kinetic splitter.

And for the second part of you post... Really? !!!! :msp_smile: :rolleyes2: :rolleyes2: :msp_smile:


----------



## Como

sunfish said:


> That being the case, a kinetic splitter is not for you. :msp_mellow:



Logrite do a version with a table and a winch..


----------



## Como

mrnecsteve said:


> Home depot sells 12 different gasoline splitters on-line....only one is horizontal mode only. 11 are vertical/horizontal.
> 
> Lowes sells 6 different gasoline splitters on-line, all 6 are vertical/ horizontal



I am not sure what your point is, if you are comparing production none of the big box store products would be in this category.

Timberwolf, a well respected name in the hydraulic field, sell one horizontal/vertical I think.

I have a neighbour who has an MTD and 4 or 5 cords left to split, would take them a lot of time and I could do it in a morning so I will go and help.


----------



## Dogsout

I own a 35 ton Speeco splitter and am very happy with it but I do not need to turn out tons of split wood a year. With out a question this splitter will turn out more splits by far then my Speeco. With that said ALL of the splits being produce in the above video is being split from small straight grained rounds. Also the size of ALL of the spits being pushed through at such a rapid rate would only be good for kindling in my OWB. Until someone post a video of this machine splitting some solid wavy grained elm I am still having a hard time believing all of the "It will split anything I throw on there." comments.


----------



## sunfish

Dogsout said:


> I own a 35 ton Speeco splitter and am very happy with it but I do not need to turn out tons of split wood a year. With out a question this splitter will turn out more splits by far then my Speeco. With that said ALL of the splits being produce in the above video is being split from small straight grained rounds. Also the size of ALL of the spits being pushed through at such a rapid rate would only be good for kindling in my OWB. Until someone post a video of this machine splitting some solid wavy grained elm I am still having a hard time believing all of the "It will split anything I throw on there." comments.



It really comes down to the size of wood one splits and what works best for the individual.

The *Super Split* is by far the best splitter I've ever used, or seen. For my use! Which is 
Stove Wood! No OWB here! But I wouldn't take a Speedpro if it was free! :msp_smile:

Wow, we really have got off topic on this Speedpro thread....


----------



## Como

Dogsout said:


> I own a 35 ton Speeco splitter and am very happy with it but I do not need to turn out tons of split wood a year. With out a question this splitter will turn out more splits by far then my Speeco. With that said ALL of the splits being produce in the above video is being split from small straight grained rounds. Also the size of ALL of the spits being pushed through at such a rapid rate would only be good for kindling in my OWB. Until someone post a video of this machine splitting some solid wavy grained elm I am still having a hard time believing all of the "It will split anything I throw on there." comments.



I do not have any wavy grained elm but if you send me a piece I will split it and post.

[video=youtube;0Tlg58hMG1Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Tlg58hMG1Q[/video]

Loads of videos on you tube.


----------



## sunfish

Como said:


> Logrite do a version with a table and a winch..



Would be better than splitting wood on the ground! But Expensive!


----------



## R6chris

I just returned mine yesterday to the service center and Speeco decided not to repair it. Speeco authorized TSC to give me a complete refund. Now what to buy?


----------



## sunfish

R6chris said:


> I just returned mine yesterday to the service center and Speeco decided not to repair it. Speeco authorized TSC to give me a complete refund. Now what to buy?



Super Split J model... Call Paul.


----------



## csmith

R6chris said:


> I just returned mine yesterday to the service center and Speeco decided not to repair it. Speeco authorized TSC to give me a complete refund. Now what to buy?



What repairs were needed?


----------



## Dozer Man

*I agree...*



sunfish said:


> Super Split J model... Call Paul.




:msp_thumbup: :msp_thumbsup: :msp_thumbup:


----------



## mr.finn

sunfish said:


> Super Split J model... Call Paul.


----------



## bluegrassboy

*Speedpro Splitter Mod suggestions Needed, please help just picked one up cheap.*

Just picked up a Speedpro Splitter cheap. . I want to modify it and I'm looking for some ideas. Any ideas on a supplier for a new bronze wear plate ? I don't think that Speedco will supply them anymore, but i might be wrong. I'm not impressed with the sloppiness on the ram/beam mating surface side to side. The tolerances need to be tighter if the rack and pinion are going to mate correctly. I do have some ideas since I am a tool repair mechanic by trade. I've already installed the Dr. Splitter clutch assy. (1.5 '' vs 3.5'' clutch that originally came with it) this slows down the flywheels closer to 300 rpm vs 450 rpm that destroys the rack. I plan to use the larger clutch if I want to convert it to electric later by using a 1750 rpm 1 hp electric motor to keep the flywheels to 300 rpm + or -. This seems to be the secret that super split keeps to. Lower rpm to decrease torque damage to the rack assy. This unit has the new improved rack assy. plus I do have 2 brand new retro fit kits if the rack fails. I've looked at the Dr. website and was impressed with the tolerance that is withheld side to side on the beam due to the design. I don't have any idea how super split achieves this but would love to see some pictures if someone could supply them.
I do know that a few of our members love the Speedpro's because of the simplicity and the price that they paid for them. I can machine just about anything so I'm looking for ideas on how you keep these Speedpros going. Any help and Pics would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks, Bluegrassboy




..................................................................................................................................................................................................


21ACREWOODS said:


> I just made 4 of these heads. I can save you bunches of time! Better yet..I'll make you one. It'll be "bolt on" ready, $440 plus shipping from OH.


----------



## csmith

*speedpro update*

I have processed 5 cords since installing smaller pulley, with no problems. I have split some hickory that was 24" diameter. Some pieces took 6 hits to cut through. I really believe the problem with the speedpro was the speed of the flywheels. It was too fast for the design.The only modification on my speedpro is the pulley.NO disengagement, clutch slips.


----------



## daleeper

I have put about a cord of walnut through mine and a few chunks of some nasty oak, and as long as the small clutch has some lubricant, it will slip when hitting a hard spot, always a crotch so far. If the clutch does not slip, I have had a few times when the ram rack has popped up hard. I like this thing, but am always afraid that a tooth will break. When using a hydraulic, I have never worried about breaking anything other than a piece of wood, which is the intent.

I don't like the oblong holes they used to mount the engagement yoke. I think that linkage needs tightened up a bit, any suggestions? The other thing, can you lubricate the clutch too much so that it will not engage at all?


----------



## car guy

I am glad that the DR clutch work out


----------



## csmith

daleeper said:


> I have put about a cord of walnut through mine and a few chunks of some nasty oak, and as long as the small clutch has some lubricant, it will slip when hitting a hard spot, always a crotch so far. If the clutch does not slip, I have had a few times when the ram rack has popped up hard. I like this thing, but am always afraid that a tooth will break. When using a hydraulic, I have never worried about breaking anything other than a piece of wood, which is the intent.
> 
> I don't like the oblong holes they used to mount the engagement yoke. I think that linkage needs tightened up a bit, any suggestions? The other thing, can you lubricate the clutch too much so that it will not engage at all?



I replaced the two front 30mm bearings with 35mm bearings. This made the fit between the beam and ram head much better.Bearing # 6300-zz


----------



## TFPace

*Clutch failure*

I thought I would share what happened to me today.

I think I am probably one of the last guys to have kept their Speedpro. This is according to the lady the fields warranty calls. So says my service guy. His words were "she really wishes you'd turn it back in"

He told her I liked mine and it's under warranty so let's fix it.

Anyway I was splitting some cherry yesterday and hit some hard pieces. No problem other than the clutch didn't slip. I go get some PB Blaster and hosed down the clutch. Anyway towards the end of my session I noticed that the engine sounded a little different. I thought nothing of it and finished up and called it a day.

This AM I had some more to split and go to fire the Kohler "Courage" up and it started to back fire through the carb. The plug was soaking wet with gas.
Long story short the key that holds the flywheel in time sheared and knocked itself out of time. The tech at the service center quickly diagnosed it . I took a compression reading and it would barely makes 20 p.s.i.

So, I wished I gone ahead and ordered the DR clutch. 

I have a new engine and clutch coming for my SpeedPro next week. 

My question is that I think the centrifical clutch should not slip if the engine is holding the correct RPM. The belts should be the fail point. Am I wrong?
 
The tech said that replacing the key would get the engine up and running no problem.

Update complete.


----------



## daleeper

TFPace said:


> I thought I would share what happened to me today.
> 
> I think I am probably one of the last guys to have kept their Speedpro. This is according to the lady the fields warranty calls. So says my service guy. His words were "she really wishes you'd turn it back in"
> 
> He told her I liked mine and it's under warranty so let's fix it.
> 
> Anyway I was splitting some cherry yesterday and hit some hard pieces. No problem other than the clutch didn't slip. I go get some PB Blaster and hosed down the clutch. Anyway towards the end of my session I noticed that the engine sounded a little different. I thought nothing of it and finished up and called it a day.
> 
> This AM I had some more to split and go to fire the Kohler "Courage" up and it started to back fire through the carb. The plug was soaking wet with gas.
> Long story short the key that holds the flywheel in time sheared and knocked itself out of time. The tech at the service center quickly diagnosed it . I took a compression reading and it would barely makes 20 p.s.i.
> 
> So, I wished I gone ahead and ordered the DR clutch.
> 
> I have a new engine and clutch coming for my SpeedPro next week.
> 
> My question is that I think the centrifical clutch should not slip if the engine is holding the correct RPM. The belts should be the fail point. Am I wrong?
> 
> The tech said that replacing the key would get the engine up and running no problem.
> 
> Update complete.



There are a few of us that have saved them from the scrap pile, and expect no warranty from Speeco, and still enjoy tinkering with them. I do need to improve the engagement linkage, as it is sloppy, and will disengage on a hard piece of oak with limbs or crotch in it.

I'm no expert on centrifugal clutches, but I believe that it is designed to slip, even at the correct engine rpm to protect the engine and the driven machine. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong. In the case of this splitter, the slipping of the clutch allows the engine to continue to run, but allow the flywheels of the splitter to stop turning, thus protecting the engine.


----------



## Dozer Man

*Still Under Warranty! Wow!*

That is cool that SpeeCo is still honoring your warranty. That does speak wonders about the company. Sounds like you are still putting it through its paces too!! 

As for the belts, I do not believe they should slip much if any. Speaking for my SuperSplit, its flywheels have no grooves what so ever. The twin belts run on the flat part of the flywheel (which were surprisingly easy to align too). On a stall, if they slip at all I can't see it. The clutch does the slipping (I lube it periodically also). With the deep grooves on the SpeedPro flywheel, and especially if you slowed them down via DR clutch or simply by throttle control, I highly doubt they slip very much if any. 

I will say this about the SS j model, I was surprised at how slow the flywheels actually turn. The drive pulley is only 1.5" (outside groove). I do run the engine at a higher RPM than I did with the speedpro, but I only run wide open periodically for bigger/harder stuff. I still use very little gas. The slower flywheel speed lets the motor actually "power through" instead of just hammering it. Hit it, if it stalls, disengage and hit it again. It stalls about as often as the speedpro did running at minimal engine rpm. Which as you know is not that often. FYI, I very highly recommend getting the smaller drive clutch pulley (via DR of SS) for your SpeedPro. 

Has Speeco mentioned getting back into the kinetic business?? Just curious because they mentioned that to me before.

I absolutely love and recommend the SS J-model. It is a great machine. I also understand you persevering through with the SpeedPro!!!

I wish you all good luck with them.


----------



## ilikeurtractor

So I picked up one of these infamous splitters and now am suffering from the dreaded kickback that surely will not be good for me or the machine long term. The way I see it, even though it does work ok on "nice" wood, it is essentially useless in this condition, but it pains me to just give up on it and toss the baby out with the bathwater. I was thinking about putting some sort of latching mechanism to lock the what I'm going to call the "rack press" for my lack of proper terminology, which is the pivoting cast lever with the two wheel bearings on it that keeps the rack in contact with the pinion. Has anybody done something like this? I apologize if I missed it in the 55 pages previous but I don't recall seeing it. Someone mentioned allowing the rack press to move slightly past its factory position so it cannot direct itself back towards the rear of the machine in an apparent overload condition might be the answer. I can see where the more aligned the centerline of the bearings are with the rack press pivot point and centerline of the pinion the better, but what are the tolerances of this alignment? Can it be 0.001" off centerline or up to 0.1" or more?

On the more recent machines, the linkage does lock the rack press into position so the flywheels will actually stall out, or do they really? Is there a clutch that slips between the flywheels and pinion shaft so they don't come to a complete stop? I'm afraid if I did latch the rack press then hit a solid object, the flywheels would need to immediately stop and that may result in stripped pinion or rack teeth, something else breaking, or maybe not??? Thoughts, experiences????


----------



## daleeper

The linkage needs to be tightened up some, or improved some way. There is also a need for a centrifical clutch on the motor. I believe the DR clutch fits the old Speeco unit, but it as been quite a while since I did this to mine. Take a look at post #1088 above.


----------



## ilikeurtractor

The motor does have a centrifugal clutch on mine. Whether or not it is as good as the others is in question.


----------



## daleeper

If you have read post 1088 above, it explains why it is better, the pulley is smaller, and runs the flywheels slower. That is the main improvement.


----------



## ilikeurtractor

Understood. Slowing the engine speed down I would think would work as well and this *should* allow the clutch to slip easier since less centrifugal (centripetal) force is applied, although this might cause it to overheat also due to excessive slippage. I've gathered the engine clutch slipping plays a critical role in insolating the engine from the flywheels under excessive load but I'm more concerned with abruptly stopping the two 70 lb. flywheels regardless of the association to the engine. I wonder if the rack and pinion can take this force without shearing? I'm sure it depends on the rate at which the flywheels are stopped and the speed of the wheels of course, and in this case the slower the better I agree. I'm guessing I will find out if I can successfully install a locking mechanism on the engagement yoke (I like this term better from the previous posts than my "rack press" term). I'm getting close to completing this and it has turned out to be more difficult than I originally anticipated. The most difficult part has been trying to devise the trip mechanism for the locker when the rack gets to the end of the travel. I have thought long and hard about that and have not come up with a lot of good options. There will also have to be additional linkage installation/modification on the engagement handle to release the yoke when a stall occurs, assuming it doesn't break something first! The design of this system is also limited to my ability to fabricate and install it which I'm pretty much limited to basic hand and power tools (i.e. no lathe or mill which would be helpful as the parts benefit from tighter tolerances and uniformity). I'm just hoping I don't go through the work only to instantly shear the teeth off the pinion and/or rack on the first stubborn piece of wood (the second or third piece wouldn't be much better!). But then I guess I'll know. I'll post my results when I get some.


----------



## daleeper

If you watch videos of the super split and the speeco we have, it appears the super split runs slower. the speeco in original form runs scary fast as far as i am concerned. I have put the dr pulley on, and still don't run full throttle most of the time. 

I have been known to spray the clutch mechanism with wd-40 to allow it to slip more. Allowing the belt to "chirp" on occasion should also reduce your concerns about breaking the rack/pinion also, which is my biggest fear also, as I don't believe that can be replaced easily. Good luck.


----------



## ilikeurtractor

I spoke to the Speeco folks and apparently they have replacement racks for about $525, but no other parts since they are not in production and don't have any left in stock. Therefore if you lose a pinion you'll have to be creative in getting one fabricated or somehow repairing the existing. Probably would just make sense to buy the new version or the better brands. I've noticed the pricing and availability on kinetics have been becoming more favorable over the years, even hydraulic splitters are falling a fair amount lately. I should probably not even bother trying to improve this Speedpro but it's kind of too late now. I bought it from a guy that said it worked great and I split about 20 pieces of wood before the lever linkage rod failed. Upon inspection it was clear it had been repaired before, just enough to get it sold. Like most things, you don't really know what you're getting until you get it home. Although the price wasn't terrible at the time because I didn't think there was anything wrong with it, it wasn't an ultimate bargain either. Now that I know more about it I would have put the money towards one of the others. But I'm stuck with it now so it's either fix it, live with it and its inherent issues including likely total failure down the road, or pass it on to the next unsuspecting person and I'm not the type to do the latter.


----------



## daleeper

I believe I would get the linkage worked over then consider the clutch with smaller pulley if you want to consider keeping this splitter and making it work. It is my understanding that the hardest thing on the pinion and rack is for that slack in the linkage allowing it to disengage. Making sure that the clutch/belt will slip if hitting a hard spot is important, but the linkage should not allow it to pop out either. There are quite a few youtube videos out there of homemade kinetic splitters that ideas can be borrowed from to make the linkage better. You already have the bones of a good splitter, it is just the activation linkage that is sloppy.


----------



## ilikeurtractor

I'm hoping you're right. If I can lock the engagement yoke and slow it down maybe I won't threaten the integrity of the unit on stubborn wood, even if it means making several passes at it at times to be able to split it. I agree the rest of the splitter seems adequate although there really isn't that much to them but enough where I wouldn't want to recreate the whole thing. We'll see what happens.


----------



## Sandhill Crane

ilikeurtractor said:


> But I'm stuck with it now so it's either fix it, live with it and its inherent issues including likely total failure down the road, or pass it on to the next unsuspecting person and I'm not the type to do the latter.


Try Craigslist. 
There are lots of people who are looking for a deal, and have that ability to fix things that need fixed. Put it out there and see what happens. You can be straight forward, and still get some money out of it. 
Then buy something that works properly, unless you enjoy fixing more than splitting.


----------



## ilikeurtractor

I understand what you're saying and generally agree with your thoughts, but my experience has been as soon as you indicate an issue with something you're selling expect to get around scrap value for it and you might as well keep it at that point because I'd rather have a somewhat functional splitter over a case of beer (I know, call me crazy!). I replaced the linkage rod between the handle and engagement yoke and increased it to 1/2" in diameter vs. the 3/8" or whatever it was so it's better than factory which doesn't say much I suppose, but I struggle with taking a huge loss on something that essentially works at least as good as it did from the factory. So I guess I'm at a point where it will either get fixed or become "more broken" at which time I'll gladly collect my case of beer


----------



## ilikeurtractor

Here's what I have so far:

https://youtu.be/QWbAyAzj81Q

Part 2:

https://youtu.be/yMSKgA3yH78

I'm continuing to have issues with the trip wire. It works for a few passes then ends up getting mangled on the return stroke somehow. I'm not sure if it is getting stretched too far on the forward stroke and pulling out of mounting holes or getting slammed by something on the rack during its return. I haven't come up with any decent alternatives so far...


----------



## ilikeurtractor

Since there is a lot of discussion on the speeds of this unit I went and verified them today. Using a reflective tape tachometer the flywheels were running at 425 rpm when the engine was at around 2250 rpm which is about as slow as I could keep it running without the throttle linkage ground activating. At 3600 rpm on the engine the flywheels were turning at 680 rpm. So the ratio on the engine pulley to flywheels is about 5.3. For 300 rpm on the flywheels the engine, with its stock pulley, would have to turn about 1600 rpm. Measuring the engine pulleys shows roughly a 3" pitch diameter (it's probably less but it's kind of hard to directly measure pitch diameter, or at least I've found it to be). At 1600 rpm the clutch should slip pretty easily I would think.

Clearly this machine runs faster than the others on the market currently as others have pointed out and it certainly isn't necessary apparently so slowing it down is definitely better all the way around.


----------



## ilikeurtractor

Well I am (was) still fighting the trip mechanism but was getting closer to solving that problem when I was attempting to split a decent size round of ash. I had the motor as slow as I could practically go but it was probably still in the 425 rpm range. Hit the round and it didn't kick back but broke a tooth off the rack instead. Pinion looks good. I caught it on video but it wasn't anything dramatic. I didn't know it broke a tooth until I inspected the rack. It bent the engagement yoke hinge bolt and it cracked the engine side bronze bushing in the yoke as well. I don't see any other damage.

I didn't have a great shot of the flywheel in the video, but just enough to see the handle didn't kick back and the flywheel came to a stop when it was run in slow motion. In fact, you could actually see the flywheel reverse a 1/2 revolution or so. So all that energy must wind up in the rack, pinion, and beam and release back via reversing which would also explain why the engagement yoke releases under a hard stop in the stock configuration.

So now I'm not sure what I should do. The replacement racks are still available but that will be $500+. I'm thinking it wouldn't be bad if the replacement is a higher grade material but with the bolt getting bent in the yoke I'm not sure if that would matter as that will cause problems itself. Then again, once I get the different clutch I can stay down in the 300 rpm range which maybe won't break anything again.


----------



## Jester3775

They discontinued for a reason, perhaps cut your losses...?


----------



## daleeper

I don't have that much in mine, so if I were faced with that choice, I would not be paying $500 for a rack. I might however scrounge around to see if I could find one for less. If this were my only option for splitter, and heating with wood was my main source of heat, I would be looking for another splitter.


----------



## ilikeurtractor

I can heat my house on natural gas for $500 for a long time so from a purely financial perspective it isn't a good decision to continue to pour money into firewood processing equipment in general, the least of which would be this splitter. I think even a new chainsaw chain will get me a months worth of natural gas heat (only the gas cost not the total bill). I also consider that I probably can't buy a kinetic splitter for $500 but it would go a long way towards another one. I also contemplated attempting a weld repair, grind, and heat treat on the missing tooth which might get me by for a while but such a repair, in correct form, is beyond my capability. I potentially could find some more rack material but it doesn't look like I'll save a huge amount and I'll still have to finish it to the original form which is certainly doable. I'm kind of leaning towards a replacement rack, slowing the unit down, and installing a weaker key material in the flywheels such as one gentleman suggested on YouTube who built one and used aluminum as a sacrificial material. Near-instant stops of the flywheels IS going to cause something to break. Ideally it would be the wood but clearly that isn't always going to happen.


----------



## Jester3775

If your time is worth anything you are further behind than you might want to realize (or you will be). Here's my thinking on this kind of stuff: If I have problems that are from an accident, mistake, occasionally defective part or standard maintenance item so be it. If problem is realized as being a faulty design in general my willingness to throw good time and money after bad I hope would be limited. I will leave the occasional option open to "fix" if I think I can actually see the "issues" item has and I think I can re-engineer to take care of "issues". A lot of fairly intelligent people on this very thread have had their go at this particular item and I believe the general consensus was scrap. If anyone has any differing opinions please chime in. If the splitter and it's potential function are somewhat of a hobby and you have extra time on your hands please be my guest and continue down this path. When I am working with wood I don't have time for games. "They" have figured out this splitting thing and the fact that this foreign company tried to copy, but considerably cheaper without apparent testing leaves me embarrassed I got sucked in. Hope this helps ?


----------



## ilikeurtractor

I agree with you 100% on the time commitment and find myself short on time on just about everything so it is hard to justify. However, I also believe this splitter can be made to function safely, reliably, and satisfactorily by essentially bringing it closer to one of it's competitors/successors designs which seems achievable. After using the splitter I do not believe the parts are inadequate, but the operating conditions/engineering was. Is it worth it in terms of time? Probably not. Most of the things I run across need some sort of attention so if I'm not working on this it's something else that is broken, whether it's from China, Japan, or even the US. And I really don't enjoy the fixing process in and of itself, just the end result (I don't know where this statement came from but I think of it a lot - "I don't want to fix broken sh!t, I want broken sh!t fixed!") I guess I'm wired to not throw things away even at the peril of the most precious thing we have which is time. I know better, but can't help myself. Ultimately, I'd like to make this splitter reliable and share my experiences if I can actually make it reliable so the next guy can benefit as I did from the tips presented so far (slowing it down with different clutches, handle designs, etc.) I'm not sure if the kickback provision is even required once it is slowed down I just haven't gotten that far yet.


----------



## Jester3775

and so it begins...


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## Sandhill Crane

I'm with the rest of the guys as far as trying to work with junk.
No patience at all for it. Cut my loses, and move on.
I sell it, or give it away, and forget it. 
Like the chain sharpener I tried, it clamped on the bar, then insert the round ceramic cutter , and crank whatever... See... half forgotten, the name anyway, gone... long, long gone.
I'm all for modifying something to make it work better, which I've done with the SuperSplit, a TW-6 wedge and Built-Rite conveyor. 
I spent a lot of time and money building wood racks to season and handle firewood. Worked good for a while. The landscape timbers started ground contact rotting and some dry rotting after four years. Several thousand dollars worth (ugh), enough for sixty full cord. Fix them, or rethink this. 
I gave half the racks away, broke the rest down and junked well over half. Gone. Replaced them with pallets and never looked back. 
However, everyone is different. 
If you can make it work, or simply enjoy trying, then I applaud your efforts to keep it out of a land fill.
Good luck with it...
Beautiful morning today.
I'm going out to split wood.

Thanks to you, all the other guys that posted about their kinetic splitters regardless of brand. It helps people make more informed choices.
As for cost differences, in the long term is kind of fades out if something is five hundred or maybe a thousand dollars more. Especially if it is a tool you use a lot. I bought a very expensive trailer to tow behind the quad, a Thule tandem axle for something like $1,400. That was almost ten years ago, and I've used it weekly since, and daily most seasons except winter when it is in the garage full of firewood for the house. Makes me smile and enjoy chores more when I get to use a good piece of equipment.


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## rancher2

I had two of these that I had bought for scrap price when they pulled them off the market years ago. Both had been sent to a repair shop to have the racks replaced. I got one updated rack not installed and none for the other one. I installed the new rack on the one. Installed a jack shaft to slow the flywheels down to around 300 rpm with the engine running wide open. Rebuilt the rack engaging system. The other splitter I made into a hyd one for a friend of mind. I ran the one I rebuilt for several years and it worked well splitting ash. I sold it two winters ago and as far as I know it still working. The hyd one got sold also last year as the friend of mind retired from work had a sale and moved. I sure wouldn't spend $500.00 on a new rack I would change it to hyd or cut my losses and sell it the way it is.


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## ilikeurtractor

Points well taken. I'm willing to run with this a little longer though and try and make it work as I still believe it can be made satisfactory. I've seen people spend (and have myself spent) a lot more time and money on things with less promise - sometimes with success, and many times not. I'm glad to hear there has been at least some success with these with others. For now, I'm not buying a new rack but will attempt a weld repair with E11018 rod for the buildup followed by using hardfacing rod for the surface and grinding to the final profile. I'm opting not to do any heat treating as I'm not set up to do that properly and probably will only make it worse using a torch for a heat source. It might be futile, but worth a shot in my opinion. I did determine the rack I have is fabricated out of 4130 steel using a PMI instrument. To me that is promising assuming the material meets specifications, opposed to it being something like a 1018 or lesser grade. I'm not sure if this one is considered upgraded or not, or even if the replacements are an upgrade at all without knowing more about it.

Right now I'm waiting on the smaller clutch from the DR Splitter people and the welding rod to repair the rack which should be here by the end of the week. I found a replacement bolt and bronze bearings for the engagement yoke and plan on changing out the keys in the flywheels to either nylon or aluminum depending on which one is more suitable. Of course, all of this is hinging on the hope the 300 rpm target for the flywheels will be adequate for reliable and functional operation which I believe it will be. I've run the machine at the 425 rpm and it has proven to shear through wood in some cases without breaking teeth and also stopping the flywheels without damage although over a considerably longer travel distances (3-4 inches). That one piece of ash did not begin to shear or split and stopped the rack in about 1" of travel after contact and did the machine in. Bottom line is either the energy contained in the flywheels and drive must be lowered to the point where they can be quickly stopped without damaging something, or another part that is more sacrificial and easier to replace must be employed.


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## ilikeurtractor




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## ilikeurtractor

Some more follow-up after testing. Another tough piece of ash caused the engagement yoke mounting bolt to bend even after upgrading it to a 12.9 grade. When that bends, the clearances open up between the rack and pinion causing disengagement even with the locker in place. To correct that I eliminated the yoke bushings by drilling the whole assembly out to 5/8" including the splitter frame box and installing a grade 8 bolt through it. The frame box originally had slotted 10mm holes on each side, apparently to let the yoke fall down and fold back easier in the retraction step. However, I found this slot is unnecessary after testing it with just a round 5/8" hole with the same size bolt through it. In the process of drilling the 5/8" hole through the frame, I eliminated virtually all of the clearance between the rack and pinion when engaged although my intention was to target around 0.010" but I couldn't achieve that just by drilling it by hand. I measured the original clearance at around 0.025". Since then I haven't had any issues with ash (sycamore can also be difficult I see). The splitter will just come to a stop as it should. I still plan on changing out the 5/8" bolt to a grade 10 allen head bolt and also the yoke bearing shaft/bolt to a grade 12.9 when I get them as an added measure.

The rack repair has been holding up but the hardfacing has chipped off the tooth tip, presumably when I bent the engagement yoke mounting bolt and the tip was loaded. So if I have to repair another tooth I likely will not attempt to add the hard-facing as it probably isn't necessary and can spall off. Avoiding the tip loading should eliminate tooth breakage in the first place of course.


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## Speedco junkie

daleeper said:


> If you watch videos of the super split and the speeco we have, it appears the super split runs slower. the speeco in original form runs scary fast as far as i am concerned. I have put the dr pulley on, and still don't run full throttle most of the time.
> 
> I have been known to spray the clutch mechanism with wd-40 to allow it to slip more. Allowing the belt to "chirp" on occasion should also reduce your concerns about breaking the rack/pinion also, which is my biggest fear also, as I don't believe that can be replaced easily. Good luck.


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## Speedco junkie

So I've come to this game very late I bought a used be go without doing any research. I love this machine whenever it's running properly it's very fast and efficient my problem is of broken teeth off of the rack and now I'm wondering if there's any way to buy replacement rack of contact at Speedco and they say that they no longer have replacement parts for the sign any help would be greatly appreciated thanks


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## rancher2

Speedco junkie said:


> So I've come to this game very late I bought a used be go without doing any research. I love this machine whenever it's running properly it's very fast and efficient my problem is of broken teeth off of the rack and now I'm wondering if there's any way to buy replacement rack of contact at Speedco and they say that they no longer have replacement parts for the sign any help would be greatly appreciated thanks


Lots of options. Its going to depend on how you fab skills are and what you check books is like. There are new racks and pinions out there you could buy and fab up to replace what you have. Probably going to have to install a jack shaft also to slow it down. You could convert it over to a hyd cylinder type splitter I did that to one . When they were new and pulled off the market I bought two for scrap price and put a jack shaft on one because it had a rack the other one didn't so I converted it to use a cylinder. I hope you bought it cheap.


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## Sandhill Crane

Fix it, then fix it again, then fix it again.
Or...
Throw the piece of crap away and buy the real deal.
Run it for twenty years plus.
That's my "fix" strategy to split wood, with something that works.


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## CUCV

I've got a spare SS rack, pinion and flywheels I'd consider selling, just not sure if it would be worth the shipping. I wanted to build a diesel special edition and it cost me less to by a J model splitter and special edition rack, and flywheels than to buy a special edition splitter. I think slowing it down just comes down to buying a SS clutch.


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## Jules083

When I had my Speeco I broke teeth off the rack with maybe 2-3 cords split. At that point I took it back for a full refund and bought a SuperSplit. 

Since you bought it used, the refund isn’t likely an option. 

At this point, if I had one with a broken rack and no chance of a refund, my only options I’d consider would be to scrap the mechanical portion and weld a cylinder on to convert it to hydraulic, or scrap it and buy a Supersplit. 

The cylinder and hydro pump won’t be cheap, but if nothing else it should be cheaper than buying a whole new splitter. I assume the motor could be used to run a hydraulic pump, but I could be wrong. 


What I wouldn’t, under any circumstance, do is try to put a new speeco rack on to continue using it as a kinetic. That’s guaranteed to fail, and likely soon, and you’ll be in the exact same position you are now except with less money.


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## Speedco junkie

rancher2 said:


> Lots of options. Its going to depend on how you fab skills are and what you check books is like. There are new racks and pinions out there you could buy and fab up to replace what you have. Probably going to have to install a jack shaft also to slow it down. You could convert it over to a hyd cylinder type splitter I did that to one . When they were new and pulled off the market I bought two for scrap price and put a jack shaft on one because it had a rack the other one didn't so I converted it to use a cylinder. I hope you bought it cheap.


600.00 is what I paid I tried it out and it worked great. It looked brand new. How much are we talking for a new rack. The great part I have friends with elders


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## Speedco junkie

Does anyone have info on what a jack shaft is? Does anyone have pictures or a link to a video?


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