# Troy Bilt log splitter cylinder issue.



## tmoto (Jun 26, 2011)

I have been burning wood for a couple of years now and have trolled this sight off and on since then and have been thinking of buying a wood splitter. The wife finally relented and agreed to loosen the purse strings. A buddy of mine had the 27 ton LS model and swore by it, so I did very little research and decided this was the one for me. Typical of me i googled it after having it for a couple days and what I started to realize was that I had made a mistake. Long story short I took it back to Lowes this morning and to there credit they refunded my money with no hassle at all. Troy Bilt (MTD) had better fix this issue as well as some P.R. if they hope to keep selling them. I am thankful for this sight and the guys on it. I am not much of a poster but if guys keep posting, getting the word out, maybe T.B. will recognize they have a real issue on there hands. I am probably going to Farm and Home and buy the 28 ton Speeco.

Thanks,
Tmoto


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## sbumgarner78 (Jun 27, 2011)

tmoto said:


> I have been burning wood for a couple of years now and have trolled this sight off and on since then and have been thinking of buying a wood splitter. The wife finally relented and agreed to loosen the purse strings. A buddy of mine had the 27 ton LS model and swore by it, so I did very little research and decided this was the one for me. Typical of me i googled it after having it for a couple days and what I started to realize was that I had made a mistake. Long story short I took it back to Lowes this morning and to there credit they refunded my money with no hassle at all. Troy Bilt (MTD) had better fix this issue as well as some P.R. if they hope to keep selling them. I am thankful for this sight and the guys on it. I am not much of a poster but if guys keep posting, getting the word out, maybe T.B. will recognize they have a real issue on there hands. I am probably going to Farm and Home and buy the 28 ton Speeco.
> 
> Thanks,
> Tmoto


 
I have had this splitter since 2007 from Lowes. I work it hard year round in my firewood business splitting 30-40 cords per year. No problems other than a few busted bolts. Been extremely happy!


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## tmoto (Jun 28, 2011)

A friend of mine has one and has run the crap out of it and has had no problems as well. I just freaked out when I saw some of those broken trunions. I am sure it is like anything you get a lemon sometimes and stuff just breaks. But after looking at splitters closely I think the full beam and clevis at the end of the cylinder is alot more rigid. Who knows?

Tmoto


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## Booshcat (Jun 28, 2011)

"Typical of me i googled it after having it for a couple days and what I started to realize was that I had made a mistake. Long story short I took it back to Lowes this morning and to there credit they refunded my money with no hassle at all. Troy Bilt (MTD) had better fix this issue as well as some P.R. if they hope to keep selling them."

What "ISSUE" are you whining about?


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## Booshcat (Jun 28, 2011)

tmoto said:


> I have been burning wood for a couple of years now and have trolled this sight off and on since then and have been thinking of buying a wood splitter. The wife finally relented and agreed to loosen the purse strings. A buddy of mine had the 27 ton LS model and swore by it, so I did very little research and decided this was the one for me. Typical of me i googled it after having it for a couple days and what I started to realize was that I had made a mistake. Long story short I took it back to Lowes this morning and to there credit they refunded my money with no hassle at all. Troy Bilt (MTD) had better fix this issue as well as some P.R. if they hope to keep selling them. I am thankful for this sight and the guys on it. I am not much of a poster but if guys keep posting, getting the word out, maybe T.B. will recognize they have a real issue on there hands. I am probably going to Farm and Home and buy the 28 ton Speeco.
> 
> Thanks,
> Tmoto


 
Yup..buy the Speeco,
I look forward to seeing your posts about their excellent customer service....
chuckle...chuckle


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## tmoto (Jun 29, 2011)

Booshcat said:


> Yup..buy the Speeco,
> I look forward to seeing your posts about their excellent customer service....
> chuckle...chuckle


 
I am not whining. I guess I am the only one who has seen the posts about trunions pulling right out of the cylinder wall on this site and others. I just figured I would cut my losses and go for the Speeco. I have heard nothing but good things about them on this site. Especially there customer service. If you know something I do not, please enlighten me.


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## roostersgt (Jun 30, 2011)

I like my Troybuilt. No issues. Used Harbor Freight 20% off coupon at Lowes. Total was $1130 out the door. Great splitter so far.


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## HILLBILLYREDNEC (Jun 30, 2011)

Well I am the type to just watch for problems then modify it to correct it. Most any tool will have some flaw in it. Being able to maintain the equipment and know when to repairs is the best way to keep a piece of equipment work right. Splitter are not idiot proof, trying to split really knotty and or twisted wood can brake a splitter.


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## avalancher (Jun 30, 2011)

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> Well I am the type to just watch for problems then modify it to correct it. Most any tool will have some flaw in it. Being able to maintain the equipment and know when to repairs is the best way to keep a piece of equipment work right. Splitter are not idiot proof, trying to split really knotty and or twisted wood can brake a splitter.



Your right.Splitting knotty and or twisted wood can break a splitter. But only a poorly engineered splitter, one built with faulty materials, or a splitter that is used to perform a task that it was not designed to do.

Lets face the facts. If your splitter is engineered and designed to push 30 tons, it should push that entire 30 tons repeatedly without straining the structure supporting the ram. It should continue to push that rated tonnage until things flat out wear out, and the "wearing out" should be confined to wearable items such as bearings and bearing surfaces, seals, hoses, etc.It shouldn't matter in any way shape or form what is pushing against whether its a pecan log full of knots and twists, a chunk of aluminum, or an easy to split piece of red oak. After all, thirty tons is thirty tons, regardless of what its pushing against. Its more or less another example of "what weighs more, a ton of feathers or a ton of lead?"

The flaw that the OP was concerned about is hardly a wearable item. In any other splitter, have you ever heard of the ram mount wearing out?No.They dont wear out and cause a dynamic explosion of hot hydraulic fluid. 

I know personally of only one example of the flaw that the OP mentioned, and that was my own TB splitter. It was used as was intended, or at least as it was marketed. It was used as a 27 ton log splitter, and was maintained religiously, to the point of being extreme. In the years that I have been on AS, I have been ridiculed more than once for changing the oil on any gas burning tool that has no external changeable filter every fifteen hours of operation. The hydraulic filter was changed every 60 hours of operation, and the beam lubricated every time it was used with a dry lubricant. My splitter did not fail because it wasnt maintained nor was it abused.

Why did my TB splitter fail? Faulty design. This was established in my mind by several sources. For one, my own common sense. After examining the torn trunnion, it was apparent in my mind that the trunnion itself did not tear, but the walls of the cylinder. A close examination revealed that the walls of the cylinder were hardly in any shape to withstand ANY side to side movement that can be expected in a mount where the ram is more or less floating in its mount. With no pressure on the system you can literally move the cylinder forward almost an inch with your bare hands.
Second, I sent pictures to a gentleman that builds and designs custom heavy equipment, and his findings were on par with my own. As he put it, "its an accident waiting to happen"

And third,I have read every post I could find on many different websites were individuals report exactly the same failure as mine experienced. Combined, I can see that indeed there is a design flaw, and eventually it could turn deadly for someone. Luckily my injuries were confined to a facial bath of very hot hydraulic fluid and a moderate case of embarrassment when I had to change my shorts when that cylinder turned loose with a bang that still haunts my sleep.


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## johnha (Jun 30, 2011)

>> Splitter are not idiot proof,

apparently, neither is spell check.

>>trying to split really knotty and or twisted wood can brake a splitter.[/QUOTE]

I would ask, if you can't split real knotty or twisted wood with it, what good is a hydraulic splitter anyway? I've been splitting the knottiest, twistiest hardwoods with my 26 ton Brave for 8 years.


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## indiansprings (Jun 30, 2011)

I own a TB, and I take the message to heart about the poor design, I can see how it can happen. We've been lucky so far, but you can bet we'll keep a close eye on it as I can see how it can fail. We also run a swisher splitter and it is twice the splitter the TB is. The TB is rated at 27 tons, it has a 11 gpm pump and a 5hp pos chinese Honda engine. The swisher has a 8hp I/C briggs and a 16 gpm pump and is rated at 26 ton although it has the same size cylinder. The TB's wedge design is way to wide it is crappy compared to other splitters. After three years of hard use, prolly over 500 cord the TB has paid for itself, but had I known , shopped harder I would have made a better decision than the TB. I've bought a 11 hp Briggs I/C and a 16 gal minute pump for the TB and I'll re-do the wedge before fall. The swisher will currently split twice the wood as the TB, I'd never believed it until we used them side by side. You can bet your hiney I'll be inspecting the TB's cylinder often from now on, to make sure no one gets hurt when the day comes when it cracks.


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## Joe46 (Jun 30, 2011)

I guess I'll have to keep a real close eye on mine. I've only used it hard for the last 7 or 8 years.:msp_rolleyes:


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## HILLBILLYREDNEC (Jun 30, 2011)

johnha said:


> >> Splitter are not idiot proof,
> 
> apparently, neither is spell check.
> 
> >>trying to split really knotty and or twisted wood can brake a splitter.


 This is usually caused by trying to make a under powered machine do work beyond the machines limits:msp_thumbup:
 
I would ask, if you can't split real knotty or twisted wood with it, what good is a hydraulic splitter anyway? I've been splitting the knottiest, twistiest hardwoods with my 26 ton Brave for 8 years.[/QUOTE]


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## indiansprings (Jun 30, 2011)

Where are you buying the hedge, blackjack , hickory and locust in the PNW, HBRN? I don't think you really know what hard wood is. The TB will split about anything you throw on it. In hundreds of cords split on one I can count the number of pieces it wouldn't split on two hands. It's just slow due to wedge design and pump capacity.


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## kevin j (Jun 30, 2011)

One of the advantages of hydraulics is that the force is predictable, repeatable, and can be stalled forever. That should make it easier for proper design. No matter how hard the wood is, the force limits itself to 30 tons or whatever. There could be some fatigue issues with number of cycles, but that is another issue. I don't see any way that working it hard is abusive. If an owner takes a 6 inch elm and tries to shear it crosswise, who cares. It should limit to 30 tons. The design should be for 30 tons, however it got there.

Now, a mechanical device can be abused by how hard of impacts, dropping, speed, etc. For example the wheel spindles: What is the load? how much weight, how big a pothole, how fast, etc. Many more tradeoffs, more unknowns, more susceptible to 'abuse'.

But hydraulics, not abuse. My opinion is poor design. I've seen it before on light weight trunnion mounted cylinders: The issue isn't the force of the cylinder trying to shear it off from the 30 tons direction. It is bending moment, in the direction it failed as shown in the picture, caused by the force being applied too far out on the trunnion/fitting. 
Think about trying to break off a tack weld for instance: If the force was directly at the cylinder, there is little bending on the weld. If the force is applied say a foot out from the weld, just a few pounds breaks it off. Bending moment. 

The cheaper trunnion cylinder splitters mount in a box structure that is too light. Over time it bends outward, away from the cylinder, and the force is not applied a half inch or more further out from the cylinder wall. If the cylinder walks to one side, all the extra slop accumulates on the other side and bending moment is worse yet. 

For anyone who has one that has not failed, curiousity (mine if no one elses) check your cylinder mount. Play or slop along the long direction doesn't matter. sure it bangs with each cycle, no big deal. But I will bet the surrounding mount is bent outward and becoming wider than the cylinder. Wider, = force further out= more bending = more fatigue = failure coming. If it hasn't failed yet, beat the plates back towards a tighter fit along the cylinder. Maybe add some reinforcing.

Unfortunately, this type of failure is likely to progress very fast, much faster than a normal fatigue or simple overstress. So close inspection may catch it, but I will bet it can be fine in the morning and fail an hour later. 


Good design can take more abuse longer, but I bet money it is not ANY abuse from you using it hard. It is poor design pure and simple. Designed to a cost point. But it sounds like you got many years out of it, so maybe the cords per dollar is still good. However a failure mode that can be dangerous is not IMO good design, regardless of cost per cord. 

kcj


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## tmoto (Jul 1, 2011)

I am not going to quote anyone. BAD DESIGN! Enough said.

Tmoto


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## spike60 (Jul 1, 2011)

tmoto said:


> I am not going to quote anyone. BAD DESIGN! Enough said.
> 
> Tmoto



Did your splitter actually fail, or have any problem of any kind? 

Or did you actually return the unit because you read internet chatter about others that have failed?


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## tmoto (Jul 1, 2011)

spike60 said:


> Did your splitter actually fail, or have any problem of any kind?
> 
> Or did you actually return the unit because you read internet chatter about others that have failed?


 
No, it did not fail. As i said, I did very little research. It was kind of an impulse buy. When I did do the research I did not like the internet chatter I was hearing. So, I actually returned it. Look, I know there are probably tens of thousands of these units out there and serve there owners well and the likelyhood of one failing is very small. The bottom line is I did not want the worry and was still in the window that I could return it, so I did.


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## avalancher (Jul 1, 2011)

tmoto said:


> No, it did not fail. As i said, I did very little research. It was kind of an impulse buy. When I did do the research I did not like the internet chatter I was hearing. So, I actually returned it. Look, I know there are probably tens of thousands of these units out there and serve there owners well and the likelyhood of one failing is very small. The bottom line is I did not want the worry and was still in the window that I could return it, so I did.


 

Well, if you ask me, you probably did the right thing. Like I said before, the chances of it happening to your splitter is probably slight. The biggest problem that I see in this whole idea is that IF it happens to your splitter, the end result is a catastrophic failure that makes the splitter not only useless, but your chances of serious injury is great. When you take into account that if the event happens, you are likely to have 27 tons of force suddenly turned loose in your face. Its not like a hose that breaks (which can of coarse be dangerous as well) where the physical part being mostly rubber and metal mesh, but instead you have a loose trunnion being popped out directly out of the cylinder.Although fluid can not be compressed, there still is a great deal of energy stored in a cylinder that is suddenly being released.I myself would prefer to avoid even the mere chance of an event like that happening directly in my face. After all, that cylinder is mounted right at waist level and the event seems to happen at when full force is applied to the cylinder.

Some folks have compared the TB splitter to a vehicle, asking if you had heard that a certain model of Ford had a few engines blown, would you quite buying Fords? Well, in my mind if the event happened in a manner that each and every engine blew only when you opened the hood to take a peek, and waited until you had stuck your head under the hood to check the oil, then yeah my answer would be "hell no, I aint buying no more Fords."

Sure, Ford has blown some engines.Chevy and Dodge has too. But as far as I know, none of them have waited until you stuck your head under the hood, and instead blew them while under heavy throttle, pulling heavy loads, or in general pushing the vehicle beyond its established RPM limit.And, if you exclude race vehicles, I have never heard of anyone being killed by a blown engine. The chances of someone being seriously injured by a TB splitter busting a cylinder while under full pressure grows percentage wise as each unit gets a little older and fatigue sets in. I can tell you from first hand experience that when that cylinder turned loose, it went off like a gunshot.

One more thing I would like to add. When my cylinder blew, it came at a bad time for me financially. Our home had just gotten ruined by a busted pipe, and I was forced to consider repairing the splitter until a better unit more suited to the volume that I do could be purchased. A google search revealed several outfits that sell an aftermarket cylinder built to factory OEM specs. A phone call to one of those places netted me a nice guy who was open to a bit of a chat. He told me he sells *20-35 of these cylinders a month*. In conversation with the guy, he told me that 90 percent of these cylinders are bought off of his website, and he had no direct conversation with the purchasers.However, when the sale resulted from a conversation on the phone with the customer, *each and every cylinder was being bought to replace a cylinder that had blown out in the same manner as mine.*

Now think about those odds. If just one guy on the internet sells 20-35 of these cylinders a month to folks who have had it break just like mine, just how many of these are failing and nobody hears anything about it?

I well tell you one thing. I dont condone lawsuits most of the time.Most lawsuits are nothing more than a chance for a guy to reach into a corporations pockets and pull out a wad of cash, driven by fee hungry attorneys. But I can tell you with 100 percent certainty the day I hear of someone dying in front of a TB splitter because that trunnion went through his forehead, I personally will show up with bells on to testify for the poor guys widow.

I will say one thing more, then I am going to shut the hell up. If you own a TB splitter, the chances of it happening are slim. But because I love every one of you guys to death, do me a favor and add an inspection of the welds around the trunnion and the surrounding mount to your maintenance schedule. Any cracks in the paint around the weld, take it out of service. Any widening of the mount at all, and I mean ANY, take it out of service. Drop a chunk of wood in the splitter, run the ram forward, and after pressure has built up let go of the lever and step to the rear of the splitter. Examine the cylinder and ram, is the cylinder in perfect alignment with the beam? If its even a slight bit off, take it out of service and find out why.

You owe it to yourself, wife, husband, girlfriend, smurf friend, midget under your bed, children, or anybody else that matters in your life to keep an eye on that TB splitter.

Yeah,and you owe it to me too. I would feel pretty bad if something happened to any of you.


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## MofoG23 (Jul 1, 2011)

I have something worth noting...

Recently I purchased an Ariens 27 ton splitter that shares the same design as the MTD splitters. The splitter is currently at my parents (where I get most of my wood), so when I read all about the Troy Bilt issues, I made sure I looked over my Ariens to see if it was different. What I found is that it appears the Ariens cylinder already has some type of collar around the mounting area. It does not look like much, but it is thicker around the mount - you can see a small line that shows what appears to be a very thin collar going all the way around the cylinder.

I'll see if I can get some pictures next time I use it...

Avalancher - do you have any pictures or a link to the aftermarket cylinder? I'd like to compare them...


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## avalancher (Jul 1, 2011)

Sorry, I didnt bookmark them after deciding to junk the splitter and buy another model. Just Google "TroyBilt logsplitter replacement cylinder" and you will turn up quite a few.


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## MishMouse (Jul 6, 2011)

Does Swisher splitters also have this issue?


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## Work4Food (Jul 6, 2011)

I have the Craftsman version of this splitter and it has served me well for a number of years. Curious if anyone has come up with a modification to this splitter....maybe some kind of support for the back of the cylinder or something like that...to make it a safer design. Or maybe reducing the splitting force to around 18 - 20 ton range to help the design last longer. I know there are some pretty talented people on this forum and maybe a fix/mod could be found that would make this a better splitter. 

I kinda feel like selling it to some other guy knowing what I know would be kinda low so maybe spending a couple hundred bucks to a qualified welder or ??????? would be worth it.

Thanks


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## John R (Jul 7, 2011)

Any splitter, no matter who makes it should hold up to at least it's maximum force.
If the thing is designed to have a force of 35 ton, you should be able to put a rock in there, if it can't break it, the ram should stall and not break anything.
These TB splitters that break the trunnions off are just very poor design.

Hard wood, or knotty wood should not hurt any splitter that's made worth a damn.


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## Work4Food (Jul 7, 2011)

I agree totally about it should have been designed properly from the get go. 

but......It seems...at least for now that mtd/troybilt/sears/cub cadet/yard machine/......and whoever else put their name on this splitter isn't going to do anything about the major flaw with the splitter so again maybe someone with some talent and has one of these splitters can come up with a way to make it better/stronger etc...

And then when you come up with the fix share it with all of us 

The best reason I have read on why this log splitter fails is that the hydraulic cylinder gets at a slight angle under a hard push thus overloading one trunion and if this is done enough times or under an extremely hard split it may/will cause the cylinder to fail. So when one trunion lets go it will not only wreck the cylinder it will also possibly wreck the trunioun mount.

Maybe there is some way that a person could support the back of the cylinder somehow....

Kinda interested to see what someone can come up with.


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## Work4Food (Jul 9, 2011)

I have been looking at the speeco website at their log splitters and was wondering if a person would be able to modify a troy-bilt log splitter hydraulic cylinder to mount in the rear like a speeco splitter does. In that could you weld two mounting tabs on the back of the cylinder and then extend the beam on the troy-bilt design and mount it with a pin in the back like the speeco?

Maybe I didn't explain that all to well but just check out the speeco website and look at their log splitters and how back of the cylinder is mounted. 

Still just wondering if anyone can come up with a good mod for this splitter to make it better.


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## MofoG23 (Jul 16, 2011)

Here is a picture of the mount area on the cylinder that the Ariens 27 ton splitter uses. (half beam design). As you can see, from the factory, they beefed up the area around the mount - similar to the collar others have used.



View attachment 190814


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## mga (Jul 16, 2011)

roostersgt said:


> I like my Troybuilt. No issues. Used Harbor Freight 20% off coupon at Lowes. Total was $1130 out the door. Great splitter so far.


 
lowe's accepts those coupons?

or, are they matching the price?


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## turnkey4099 (Jul 16, 2011)

Work4Food said:


> I have been looking at the speeco website at their log splitters and was wondering if a person would be able to modify a troy-bilt log splitter hydraulic cylinder to mount in the rear like a speeco splitter does. In that could you weld two mounting tabs on the back of the cylinder and then extend the beam on the troy-bilt design and mount it with a pin in the back like the speeco?
> 
> Maybe I didn't explain that all to well but just check out the speeco website and look at their log splitters and how back of the cylinder is mounted.
> 
> Still just wondering if anyone can come up with a good mod for this splitter to make it better.


 
The advantage of the TB design is you get the same stiffness with less than half the iron. To extend it you would basically have to throw away the TB and start new.

The TB seems to be a good, sturdy design but there have been a few cylider/mount failure. Is it a good design? I think so. Was there compromies made for the production model. Yep. Best would have been a commercial yoke mount cylinder instead of modifying one. We used a few in building huge agricultural fertilizer/ chemical sprayers (biggest was one 120 ft one. Not a success .

Harry K


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## GWJ (Feb 28, 2012)

roostersgt said:


> I like my Troybuilt. No issues. Used Harbor Freight 20% off coupon at Lowes. Total was $1130 out the door. Great splitter so far.



Hey how did you do that? Does Lowes own Harbor Freight??


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## Slt Skier (Feb 29, 2012)

tmoto said:


> I just figured I would cut my losses and go for the Speeco. I have heard nothing but good things about them on this site. Especially there customer service. If you know something I do not, please enlighten me.



Just a little more info

http://www.arboristsite.com/firewood-heating-wood-burning-equipment/190938.htm


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## cheeves (Mar 1, 2012)

roostersgt said:


> I like my Troybuilt. No issues. Used Harbor Freight 20% off coupon at Lowes. Total was $1130 out the door. Great splitter so far.


Same here! Got ours in '08, father same splitter in '07. We've probably split 50 cords and my father probably 25-35. No issues yet except broken bolts on cradle. Have the Honda 160 motor and it starts and runs great. Been lucky I guess.


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## Johny Utah (Mar 1, 2012)

tmoto said:


> I have been burning wood for a couple of years now and have trolled this sight off and on since then and have been thinking of buying a wood splitter. The wife finally relented and agreed to loosen the purse strings. A buddy of mine had the 27 ton LS model and swore by it, so I did very little research and decided this was the one for me. Typical of me i googled it after having it for a couple days and what I started to realize was that I had made a mistake. Long story short I took it back to Lowes this morning and to there credit they refunded my money with no hassle at all. Troy Bilt (MTD) had better fix this issue as well as some P.R. if they hope to keep selling them. I am thankful for this sight and the guys on it. I am not much of a poster but if guys keep posting, getting the word out, maybe T.B. will recognize they have a real issue on there hands. I am probably going to Farm and Home and buy the 28 ton Speeco.
> 
> Thanks,
> Tmoto



Here's a little tip, stay away from anything made by MTD and they make many brands of power equipment.


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## Kydan (Mar 2, 2012)

tmoto said:


> I have been burning wood for a couple of years now and have trolled this sight off and on since then and have been thinking of buying a wood splitter. The wife finally relented and agreed to loosen the purse strings. A buddy of mine had the 27 ton LS model and swore by it, so I did very little research and decided this was the one for me. Typical of me i googled it after having it for a couple days and what I started to realize was that I had made a mistake. Long story short I took it back to Lowes this morning and to there credit they refunded my money with no hassle at all. Troy Bilt (MTD) had better fix this issue as well as some P.R. if they hope to keep selling them. I am thankful for this sight and the guys on it. I am not much of a poster but if guys keep posting, getting the word out, maybe T.B. will recognize they have a real issue on there hands. I am probably going to Farm and Home and buy the 28 ton Speeco.
> 
> Thanks,
> Tmoto



Well' im not going to bust you balls. I think you did the right choice, it's yours. But' buying American made would be better.


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