# Anything wrong with the standard butt strap saddle?



## Diesel JD (Sep 9, 2006)

Hey guys. I noticed that I don't see these for sale anymore. This is what i am climbing in, just a standard buttstrap only, no leg strap saddle by weaver that I purchased brand new back in 1997. It has not been expoised to the elements and is lightly used, not damaged or modified in any way. I was reading on a rec. climbing forum that the leg straps are needed, I just wonder what eevryones take on that is. Thanks,
J.D.


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## woodbutcher44 (Sep 9, 2006)

do you have a pic


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## l2edneck (Sep 9, 2006)

*Hmmm..............*

i climb with just a butt strap saddle(i think).The only thing is in some situations it tends to ride up.I would think the legstraps would hold it down more.I also have an old Pole Belt.Just around yer waist nothing under yer but.I use it when i walk tall iron for my cousin.(Got tool pouches on it and helps when ya need to bolt with both hands)As far as no leg strap saddles i can still get em just about any dealer.


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## RedlineIt (Sep 9, 2006)

JD,

Is there NOTHING to keep the butt-strap from sliding up?

I've got an old Buckingham saddle made in '93 collecting dust around here somewhere and even that relic has two leather straps that come down from the middle of the butt-strap, intended to be drawn up between your legs and buckled in front to prevent the possibility of the butt-strap ending up around your waist.

If you get into a slip/dangle situation on your rope and the butt-strap slides up the whole contraption will now work it's way up your torso, clamping your ribcage and restricting your breathing as you try to regain the tree. This not considered optimal.

I'm assuming this saddle also has the butt-strap double-D tie in configuration. To me, this setup consticts your mobility enough to move up to a more modern saddle on that point alone. When I ditched my Buckingham butt-strap for a Master ll, (and that was two saddles ago) I was so relieved to have that constriction on my thighs removed that I accepted the occasional squashed testy in the exchange, the Master ll was a notorious ball buster.

There are so many good saddles out there now that a recommendation becomes a matter of personal fit. Last saddle I bought, I had the luxury of putting it on and hanging in it off a beam in the shop. Comfy! You may have to travel to get the chance to try different saddles out in this way, but with the price of a new saddle what it is, you may find it worth it.

Good Luck, JD.


RedlineIt


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## RedlineIt (Sep 9, 2006)

JD,

Is there NOTHING to keep the butt-strap from sliding up?

I've got an old Buckingham saddle made in '93 collecting dust around here somewhere and even that relic has two leather straps that come down from the middle of the butt-strap, intended to be drawn up between your legs and buckled in front to prevent the possibility of the butt-strap ending up around your waist.

If you get into a slip/dangle situation on your rope and the butt-strap slides up the whole contraption will now work it's way up your torso, clamping your ribcage and restricting your breathing as you try to regain the tree. This not considered optimal.

I'm assuming this saddle also has the butt-strap double-D tie in configuration. To me, this setup consticts your mobility enough to move up to a more modern saddle on that point alone. When I ditched my Buckingham butt-strap for a Master ll, (and that was two saddles ago) I was so relieved to have that constriction on my thighs removed that I accepted the occasional squashed testy in the exchange, the Master ll was a notorious ball buster.

There are so many good saddles out there now that a recommendation becomes a matter of personal fit. Last saddle I bought, I had the luxury of putting it on and hanging in it off a beam in the shop. Comfy! You may have to travel to get the chance to try different saddles out in this way, but with the price of a new saddle what it is, you may find it worth it.

Good Luck, JD.


RedlineIt


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## Diesel JD (Sep 10, 2006)

*pics*

Here's a pic of my saddle, front and back view


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## woodchux (Sep 10, 2006)

Looks like the same saddle that ace hardware carries here. Very lightweight.
Put your own leg straps on there. Sew em' , rivet, velcro, whatever, all they do is keep the buttstrap down under your butt.


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## beowulf343 (Sep 10, 2006)

Diesel JD said:


> Hey guys. I noticed that I don't see these for sale anymore. This is what i am climbing in, just a standard buttstrap only, no leg strap saddle by weaver that I purchased brand new back in 1997. It has not been expoised to the elements and is lightly used, not damaged or modified in any way. I was reading on a rec. climbing forum that the leg straps are needed, I just wonder what eevryones take on that is. Thanks,
> J.D.


Ha Ha, boy that saddle brings back memories. I climbed with similiar saddles for 3 or 4 years. Very uncomfortable-would squish my legs together something fierce after tying into the lower d's. Also the lower strap would have a tendency to ride up and I'd constantly have to keep pulling it down. Ended up duct taping a board to the inside of the lower strap making a sort of bosun's seat-helped alot with the comfort factor. Maybe try wearing the saddle a little lower-most saddles I strap on above my pant's belt but these seemed to work better the lower you strapped them on. Just my opinion.


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## OTG BOSTON (Sep 11, 2006)

That is almost the exact saddle I started climbing with. Mine just had leather straps to make sure my unit got squished as well as getting my legs squeezed in an awkward position. Its funny how fast the technology has changed in this Biz. Get a new saddle, go ahead spoil yourself.


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## Diesel JD (Sep 11, 2006)

Thanks for the comments guys. I know I could be better off and more comfortable. The question was more generally about safety. Is the buttstrap safe?


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## beowulf343 (Sep 11, 2006)

Diesel JD said:


> Thanks for the comments guys. I know I could be better off and more comfortable. The question was more generally about safety. Is the buttstrap safe?


Yes-climbed with one every day for over three years with no safety issues. I know climbers that have used them for years with no problems. As to the problem with it sliding up your chest, cinch it down tight-a few months climbing every day and swinging a saw is good exercise-soon your chest will be bigger than your waist.


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## Climb020 (Sep 11, 2006)

Well they are safe to use but I have seen problems arise from using them. I don't know if anyone recalls the guy on TV that got stuck up a tree with one of those saddles on. He sure didn't look to comfy dagling with the saddle up under his arm pits.

Also another story. Buddy of mine still climbs on one. 20 years ago he was removing a dead tree. He walked out to far on the branch and it broke. His line pulled him back very hard and made the saddle ride up under his armpits as well. But the problem here was he had a chainsaw attached to it and when he slammed back into the trunk the saw got pinched between him and the tree. He has had bad back problems ever since. 

my advice to you would be get a more updated saddle. At the very least get some leg straps for it.


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## Fireaxman (Sep 11, 2006)

Diesel JD said:


> Thanks for the comments guys. I know I could be better off and more comfortable. The question was more generally about safety. Is the buttstrap safe?



I climbed in one, a Klein that looks just like yours, since 1985. But I didn't climb much, until last year. When I started spending some really serious time in it, I put it aside for a Buck Traverse. Incredible difference in comfort.

As Beranek tells it in "The Fundamentals of General Tree Work" - "... its actually the climber who breaks in to a belt rather than the belt breaking in to a climber." We tend to adapt our climbing style to our saddle, rather than shop for the saddle that best suits our climbing needs. That was my story for 20 years. "Safe"? Well, yes, as long as I limited my work to what was safe for that saddle. But with the better saddle I can now do "Safely" what I could not do in the Klein Butt Strap, particularly stay in the tree longer in more varied positions without the fatigue and discomfort I "Got Used To" in the Klein.

(1) With the Klein I had to constantly monitor the butt strap and keep it adjusted low or it would creep up towards my waist and become useless transfering between lanyard and spurs and rope suspension; (2) now I have a "Real" sliding bridge, instead the "engineered" hip squeezing bridge I made for the Klein by tieing a piece of arboplex between the butt strap D's (3) the breathing restriction is something to worry about; on several occasions the saddle crept far enough up toward my diaphragm (and I was tired enough and breathing hard enough) so that it became a real problem. It doesn't have to creep up over your chest, it just has to get high enough above your waist to limit your breathing when you are breathing hard.

I still use the Klein for short climbs, like to put up a pull rope. It's light, simple, and easy to use. I have added so many "Nice to Have's" to my Traverse that I have made it pretty heavy. But if you want to stay in the tree for any serious length of time, a better saddle is certainly worth the money.


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## treeseer (Sep 12, 2006)

Dinosaur time--

I've climbed in a buttstrap for 40 years and do just fine. It has never slid up to my ribs; as long as you are not so fat that you have no waist and keep it tight that is not an issue. Some of my safety-conscious friends call it a suislide saddle but like any tool it's how you use it.

Yeah tucking the bottom strap back down is a pain but nothing compared to nutbusting. Comfort increased greatly when I got the extra pad for the upper strap to cushion the lumbar area.

Someday I might get into a new one, if I find time to try some on.


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## Dadatwins (Sep 12, 2006)

Besides keeping the saddle from running up and under your arms, the leg straps keep you from falling out if you become unconscious. Since most of your weight is above your waist if you were ever hit in the head and knocked out in a saddle without leg straps, the theory is that you could turn over head first and fall out of the saddle. I used one like the picture for years also and since I went to individual leg strap saddle I will never go back to a squeeze and hold saddle again.


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## beowulf343 (Sep 12, 2006)

Dadatwins said:


> Besides keeping the saddle from running up and under your arms, the leg straps keep you from falling out if you become unconscious. Since most of your weight is above your waist if you were ever hit in the head and knocked out in a saddle without leg straps, the theory is that you could turn over head first and fall out of the saddle.


I don't know about this-if I were to turn upside down in my pinnacle and shake around, I bet I could slide out of it (of course my leg straps are not cinched down really tight.) I'll have to try this tomorrow. However, many climbers I know put on their legstrap saddles by stepping into them and pulling them up to their waist-my point is, they are made to slide up and down your legs. To keep from falling out of the saddle if you tip upside down, I'd try using the suspenders. The legstraps definitely keep the saddle from riding too far up though.


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## Climb020 (Sep 12, 2006)

That's what I did. Bought the tree austria along with the suspenders. Only way I'm gonna come out of that saddle is if I am cut out of it. But I would suggest shopping around. If you can't get to a store that carry's the ones you want to try contact the dealer. They can send you a demo saddle to see if you like the feel. New tribe did this for me but unfortantly I didn't like it. Took me 9 months to find the one I wanted. If you are a climber then most of your time is spent in your saddle. Find one that is comfortable, safe and works with your style of climbing.


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## Diesel JD (Sep 12, 2006)

Well guys, at the moment, I don't climb much. I'm just trying to learn, and in the process learn if I would like to do this kind of work or not. I'd hate to sink big money into a new saddle if I don't use it anymore than I've used the current one over the last 8 years. Ifi get into the biz, or my climbing becomes my main recreational workout, you can bet that the buttstrap will be replaced with something better. For the time being...suspenders or adding legstraps, what are my options? Thanks!


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## Climb020 (Sep 13, 2006)

I believe suspenders can be added to all saddle some way or another. But leg straps on the other hand I don't think can. From what I have seen the straps are held in by gromets. Don't really want to go around altering your saddle and possibly making it unsafe. Find out who made the saddle and either call or e-mail them to see if they can add legstraps to the saddle you have. I would imagine they would as long as the saddle is in good, safe working condition. Best of luck.


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## beowulf343 (Sep 13, 2006)

Diesel JD said:


> Well guys, at the moment, I don't climb much. I'm just trying to learn, and in the process learn if I would like to do this kind of work or not. I'd hate to sink big money into a new saddle if I don't use it anymore than I've used the current one over the last 8 years. Ifi get into the biz, or my climbing becomes my main recreational workout, you can bet that the buttstrap will be replaced with something better. For the time being...suspenders or adding legstraps, what are my options? Thanks!


Personally, I'd leave it alone. As rarely as you are going to use it, it will be fine.


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## Diesel JD (Sep 13, 2006)

how much were your suspender 020? Beowulf, I am likely to just leave it alone unless I get to doing something where I'm in it a lot of hours a week, then I will get the nicest, safest one I can afford. Thanks!
J.D.


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## Climb020 (Sep 13, 2006)

I paid $46 but they are made specifically for my saddle. You might be able to just take regular pant suspender and clip them to your saddle and possibly tie them with a pie of throwline or accessory cord to your belt on the saddle. Sherril sells 2 kinds of suspenders. The one pair that Sherrill sells doesn't have a pic. so you might want to call to see if they would work or not. The other pair with pic. will not fit on your saddle. As well here is a link for another pair of suspenders. They also don't have a picture of them so you should call to see if they fit your need.
http://onlinestore.forestindustry.com/cgi-bin/ne_arborist/CL98120.html


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## (WLL) (Dec 5, 2006)

*Do Your Leggs Fall Asleep In That Thing?*

I THINK BUTT STRAP SADDLE IS VERY RESTRICTING AND HOLDS ME BACK BY SITTING DOWN PINCHING MY LEG'S TOGETHER SOON THEY ARE SLEEPING. I PREFER LEG STRAPS BECAUSE I CLIMB THE TREE AND ONLY USE SADDLE FOR POSITIONING AND SAFETY. GET OFF UR ASS AND CLIMB THEM TREES LOL


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