# OWB's and lotsa wood.



## AIM (Jan 20, 2013)

Well I've read many times here and quite honestly I've even made the comment about OWB's and wood. They take a LOT... Yes they do.
But I've read time and time again about people tryin to make some dinky little half assed stove burn for a full day and then complainin about it.

Then they proclaim with all sorts of reasons that an OWB is just wasteful and nowhere near efficient enough. 
Well fine. Drag yourself out of bed at 5 am to fix a fire while the house is at 50.
Split your wood into toothpicks just so it will fit in this stove.

I'm in no way sayin that a small stove is worthless. Neither are our wood eating boilers.
Yes we go through more wood than the stove owner does but we are also NOT up at 5 am fixing a fire. Nor are we #####in about hot spots in the house. Nor are we #####in about bugs, bark, and dirt in the house. 
So if splitting toothpicks is your thing or wakin up to a cold house is what you like then by all means burn your little stove to your hearts content. 

If you want to get serious about heating with wood. Get an OWB and cut lotsa wood!

Everyone talks about how much more wood a OWB takes. Yep it takes more.
I'm willing to bet though that I have no more time in a winters worth of wood than the stove owner does and I have half the headaches. I'm not talkin cords ricks or piles. I'm saying a winters worth.
I don't care wether you burn 6 cord to my 12. My 12 cord of bigger stuff cuts as fast as your 6 cord of kindling.

Yes I'm in a mood tonight!


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## H-Ranch (Jan 20, 2013)

Bravo! Encore! Encore!!


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## taskswap (Jan 20, 2013)

What about IWBs?

opcorn:


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## Turkeyslayer (Jan 20, 2013)

They are hungry beasts, but I have never been happier heating with wood. We have a big old drafty farm house that is comfy all over now with the owb.


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## FLHX Storm (Jan 20, 2013)

Well, I'll tell ya, you won't ever find me using an OWB. They may be fine for some, but they don't do a thing for me. First, if the power goes off for a week in mid winter, What are you going to do? It takes electricity to run those pumps that get the heat into the house. If y'all are like many folk, they use electricity to cook with. I know do. BUT no electricity, no use of the electric stove, microwave, coffee maker and so on. 

You'll never hear me complain about those hot spots you mentioned or getting up in the morning to add toothpicks to the fire to get the house where it might be considered warm because chances are, I'm up in the middle of the night anyway. I might be composing email or reading here on AS. 

And if I had to deal with an electrical outage for a week, or three, I would still have my morning coffee, I would still have hot satisfying meals, my bath or shower might be a bit on the cold side, but it's not like I've never taken a cold shower before, so it's really not a big deal. But I can take hot baths. (heat the water on the wood stove) And lights, I have flashlights to find my way around and to locate the oil lamps. My refrigerator or freezer? I'd just shove em outside. 

Technically, I am only dependent on electricity just a little, but I can do without it and still be nice n warm n toasty as well as being well fed through the coldest of temperatures. And you with those fancy outdoor wood burners, well, your still in the same boat along with those who run natural gas, propane, or fuel oil. Those furnaces don't run without electricity. On my little wood stove, I'm not even running the blower. So given a choice, I'll stick with my wood stove and maybe burn 2 cord of wood a year vs your OWB burning what, 9 cord a year? N next year I intend on burning one cord after I put on a new roof and do some insulating. 

AND when I get my electric bill for this month, I expect it to be below 450kwh used. No fuel oil, no propane! I'd give the price, but those I believe vary state to state and whatever erroneous charges the electric company decides to tack on. Last month I was at 509kwh 

One of my reasons for going with a wood stove is so that I would not longer have to be concerned about those power outages especially during the winter. So far this winter we've only had one and the power was out about a day. No worries, n no complaints here. 






Or did I missinterpret your post, that your actually complaining about your OWB? Ooops!


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## Dogsout (Jan 20, 2013)

I have a OWB and love it. To be fair I have never had an inside stove so am not 100% sure what is all involved to run and maintain one. I do know one thing and that is I enjoy the constant heat with no fluctuations. I have a friend at work who is always having a to hot or to cold house. Just last week he came in complaining that he stoked the stove a little to much and had the heat in the house at almost 80*. He claimed he opened a window before he went to bed and at 2:00AM got up because it was now cold in the house and had to stoke the stove again. Seems to me that it takes a lot more attention and time to want to heat with the indoor stove. I too am not knocking an inside stove just making an observation is all. I like having a thermostat and how easy it is to raise or lower the heat in my house as I see fit. As for the wood use we are having a somewhat normal winter for temps, and if we stay about average I should come in some where around 7 to 8 cords for and older 2000 sq ft house maintaining at least 70* or more all the time. Not terrible.


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## Dusty Rhodes (Jan 20, 2013)

Hmmmm. Hesitant to wade in but here goes. I have burned in both. Not an inside boiler mind you but a Warner box stove that I had in Maine. I could get an 8 hour burn out of it. I only slept 8 hours at night so I had coals to wake up to in the morning and the house was not cold. Was it more efficient that my OWB that I use today? I had a smaller house, about 1200 square feet. I burned about 4 1/2 cords per winter. Heating degree days are different in Maine vs. Central PA so hard to compare the two. I now have an OWB and a 2400 square foot house. I also heat my domestic hot water in the winter and sometimes run a heater in the garage connected to that OWB. I go through about 8 cords a winter now. Yes more wood, less heating degree days, but twice the size of house and domestic hot water all winter. All the dirt and bugs are outside and I am not concerned about anything in the house catching on fire from the wood burner. For me it is a trade off. I prefer the OWB. Cutting 8 cord of wood is not a large amount in my book and I like cutting wood. I get at least a 12 hour burn time on a moderate sized charge in the OWB and could stretch it to 18 hours if I really loaded it, but why? Twice a day fits my schedule and is convenient for me. When I get home at night from work the house is warm and if I have loaded the unit right I have a nice large bed of coals to get the next charge going for the night. 6 AM and 6 PM works for our household. Only thing I miss at times is the direct radiant heat from an inside stove. But I won't go back anytime soon. My OWB is connected to my baseboard heat and I have nice even heat throughout the house. As far as efficiency, I suppose I lose a little heat in the transfer through the underground lines. 2 -3 degrees in water temperature by my observation. That's not much and the insulated underground lines make the difference. My OWB does not smoke but a wisp coming out the stack between cycles so I think it's not wasting my wood. Each to there own, and I will not knock the inside wood burner crowd, been there, done that and enjoyed that Warner Box stove. But for the present, I love our OWB. As far as power outage? I have a generator, not worried about an outage. Besides, sitting in a warm house with just heat and nothing else would not be my idea of fun.


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## Encore (Jan 20, 2013)

I have both and I LOVE my OWB hands down. Best investment I ever made. Like the other said, the even boiler heat throughout the house is amazing. 

As far as cutting more wood, I got used to it. I spent less than half the time I did before splitting stuff so by the time I get done running my saw more, I really don't care. It evens out to about the same. Most of the stuff I cut this year can go right in the door. 

The burn times are another HUGE bonus. Going 24hrs between burn times is much more conducive to our lifestyle than a wood stove. While we love heating with the wood stove, the dry air was really tough on my wifes asthma (even with the humidifier) and that is never a problem any more. 

If the power going out is your only worry about an OWB, get a generator. Seriously that's not a big deal. If I don't want to run the generator, I just fire up the wood stove. But if I'm losing power long enough for the house to get cold, I'm using the generator anyways because we all want to take showers, make some coffee, running water, whatever. I have one and have used it several times. 

OWB's aren't for everyone though. It's not an insult if it comes across that way, they just aren't. You do have to keep more wood around. You have to get a friend to run it while you're gone if you leave for more than a day or two, but the benefits of keeping the mess outside, even moist and dust free heat inside, great burn times and much less time processing far outweighed those negatives for me. 

To each their own though.


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## Dusty Rhodes (Jan 20, 2013)

Del and Storm make good points, respect their opinions and as I said, I have been on both sides of it. For my present situation I went with the OWB and do not regret it. But it is not the do all and be all of heating systems. Never say never. Someday may downsize and go back to the inside stove. Who knows, there are advantages and disadvantages to both types of heating systems.


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## FLHX Storm (Jan 20, 2013)

As with most things we tend to make choices based on our needs and environment. My needs are few and I live relatively simply. A wood stove fit's my needs. Plus I like the view! 

I'm not really condemning those who run OWB or IWB's. They're just are not for me. The more complicated things are the more things that can go wrong at the most inopportune times. 

Add to that I'm trying to make everything here more efficient. Once I have everything set, I figure on going off the grid entirely within the following year.


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## pennsywoodburnr (Jan 20, 2013)

Anyone else thinking this thread could get ugly? :msp_scared:


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## FLHX Storm (Jan 20, 2013)

Nah, we're all fairly civilized. Anyway, differing opinions make the world go round. Wouldn't this be a boring world if everyone thought the same and did the same?


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## taskswap (Jan 20, 2013)

I've got an IWB and love it. Even with no power I can get some heat with convection (my dump zone runs that way) but that doesn't matter to me. We have a camper and can always cook with propane on the grill or in the camper. And we have well water and need power anyway for the pump - we need our generator during an outage even if it wasn't for heat.

Besides, because so many people around here are on oil or natural gas (both of which need power for the circulators), at least around here, it's REALLY unusual to lose power for a week. Hurricane Sandy did that, but it's been a decade since the last 3+ day outage. Usually it's only a day or two, and we go plenty of seasons without losing power for more than a few hours at a time. I'm happy with a generator being my "backup" option. If society goes THAT bad THAT fast I don't think I'd stick around on my 2 wooded acres. This ain't no farm.

So I get the best of both worlds. We have a 2800 sq. ft. house, and it would be really hard for a wood stove to move the heat around - it's a spread-out colonial. This way we have no cold spots - the entire house is heated evenly. The basement stays warm without having to add separate heat for that (and helps heat the first floor too). I don't have to go outside to fill it, and the "mess" stays in the basement. All of the people we know who have houses our size have at least two stoves to heat it. What a pain to manage.

All the same, we have two wood stoves as well, we just don't use them. One is a pot-belly beastie that came with the house (it's the one I replaced with the boiler). And one is a decorative little box stove that I could throw into the fireplace in an emergency, and even cook on I suppose. "Just in case."

I don't know that I'd call my boiler installation complicated. There's an oil boiler already. All I did was put an aquastat on the wood boiler, run a pair of lines to the oil boiler ("parallel installation"), and off I went. I will admit I'm planning to add more "stuff" to it (like a heat storage tank and solar panels) but that was a choice, not a necessity.

Everybody marches to the beat of a different drum!


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## John R (Jan 20, 2013)

I have an inside wood stove at deer camp, it heats well, we stay warm.
At home I have an OWB an it's great, I load it once a day for heating the house (2200 sq feet) and hot water.
If I work out in my barn (1500 sq feet) and keep it up to 70° for the day, I have to load the OWB twice for that day, but it's a lot cheaper than propane, and it heats just the same as the furnace would running on gas.
As far as electricity, I have an automatic standby generator that powers the whole house.

I burn more wood at home than I do a camp, but at camp I'm only heating 600 Sq feet.


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## Como (Jan 20, 2013)

No electricity = no pump = no water.

They have just about finished a new electrical sub station, no idea why, nobody does, The Transformer alone was $2m and there are just 20 residents year round.

You do not have to use an inefficient Boiler, the best are much more efficient than the best Stoves.


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## AdamG (Jan 20, 2013)

I have an OWB, never ran a stove or fireplace- so I'm fairly ignorant/biased.
That being said, I love it. I've split before- and I didn't enjoy it too much. I don't mind cutting more wood to feed the boiler- I love running the saw. 
That being said- I can respect people who Love to split-- just not me!
The biggest reason I chose owb is I have no direct to the outside from the basement or the other two rooms that a stove/ burner would have to go in. I really didn't want to cart the mess through several rooms. I most definitely took the most expensive route- but for me- I couldn't be happier.
Later on down the road, I may put in a fireplace- just for the occasional ambiance. But that's a while down the road.
I also have a whole house propane generator that came with the purchase of the house- so I'm good when the power goes out!


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## tld400 (Jan 20, 2013)

Nothing beats the nice warm heat of a woodstove. I have a 2000 sq foot ranch and dont have hot or cold spots. The house stays about 74 all the time and if I want it warmer I just crank the stove up. Only burned a cord and a third so far and everything else in my house is electric but since I use stove now my electric bill are about 100 to 120 dollars a month. Eventually going solar so then no bills. Im not knocking owb but it just seams like a lot of waisted wood and most of the people that are after people burning wood are after people that smog out neighbor hood with owb. But everyone has their preference. Oh and I dont have to keep feeding the stove all the time,I can go 8 to 10 hrs with ease and only drop 1 to 2 degrees on a real cold night.So 74 degrees when I load it at 10:30 pm and 72 when I get up at 7 am. If most owb use 8 to 10 cords of wood you would need at least 20 cords on property if you burn correct and use seasoned wood. That much wood on my property would be about a decades worth and owb get 2 years out of it. So my vote goes to using wood stoves.


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## Dusty Rhodes (Jan 20, 2013)

No need for anything to get ugly. Bottom line, we all burn wood. Just in checking the posts on this it appears that most of the OWB crowd that have posted have larger square footages to heat, at least from what they are posting. Many of the inside unit owners have not said how many square feet they are trying to heat. I think that may make a difference. If you have a large home or one that is spread out the OWB may make more sense to be able to still use wood as a fuel source. My home in Maine was smaller and easy to heat fairly evenly with the inside unit, but the house I have now might have me scratching my head to try and heat with one unit inside, unless it was a boiler unit. My brother has a moderate sized home and he runs two indoor wood stoves. His reasoning is that due to the layout of the home one unit just does not evenly heat the whole house. Any indoor wood burners that heat large homes with one radiant heat unit?


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## mizzou (Jan 20, 2013)

It would be nice to have the fire and the mess outside, but I have limited access to wood and if I had an owb it would be used with forced air instead of baseboard heaters so I would miss wood heat feel that we enjoy. I only load the stove twice a day too, by the way. I also don't think I want to deal with all the pumps and plumbing involved with an owb but I think there are some real positives to an owb also. I heat 3000 sq. ft.


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## Dogsout (Jan 20, 2013)

Do you think it would be a fair statement that if you burn wood for heat regardless weather it is indoor stove or an OWB that a bigger percentage of people on this board have a back up generator then not? (I have one for the record) I believe that most of the people on this board you would be hard pressed to catch them with their pants down regardless of the situation thrown at them. Again just an observation on my part.


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## tld400 (Jan 20, 2013)

Dusty Rhodes said:


> No need for anything to get ugly. Bottom line, we all burn wood. Just in checking the posts on this it appears that most of the OWB crowd that have posted have larger square footages to heat, at least from what they are posting. Many of the inside unit owners have not said how many square feet they are trying to heat. I think that may make a difference. If you have a large home or one that is spread out the OWB may make more sense to be able to still use wood as a fuel source. My home in Maine was smaller and easy to heat fairly evenly with the inside unit, but the house I have now might have me scratching my head to try and heat with one unit inside, unless it was a boiler unit. My brother has a moderate sized home and he runs two indoor wood stoves. His reasoning is that due to the layout of the home one unit just does not evenly heat the whole house. Any indoor wood burners that heat large homes with one radiant heat unit?



My wood stove heats 2000 sq feet house. Woodstove is all the way in the front of house so I use a box fan on low to push heat to back of house and temp stays the same through out whole house. If I dont use fan its about a couple degrees cooler in back of house. House is well insulated too.


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## mizzou (Jan 20, 2013)

Dogsout said:


> Do you think it would be a fair statement that if you burn wood for heat regardless weather it is indoor stove or an OWB that a bigger percentage of people on this board have a back up generator then not? (I have one for the record) I believe that most of the people on this board you would be hard pressed to catch them with their pants down regardless of the situation thrown at them. Again just an observation on my part.



Your probably right' I have 2 generators and if I can't burn wood(current situation) I have plenty of propane. I hate the Forced air furnace heat compared to the wood burner though.


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## tld400 (Jan 20, 2013)

mizzou said:


> Your probably right' I have 2 generators and if I can't burn wood(current situation) I have plenty of propane. I hate the Forced air furnace heat compared to the wood burner though.



I hated the forced air heat. Ripped that out of house and put gas wall units in house but havent had gas turned on since I put woodstove in house. Best thing I ever did. And yes I have generator too. They are a must have in my book.


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## hupte (Jan 20, 2013)

ive been burning in a home made owb for 3 years now and I'll never go back. in addition to what everyone else said, the thing I love the most is not having to worry about my house burning down if I leave for a few hrs. before this boiler I burned inside on and off for about 10 years. the last 4 of those years I used only the wood stove for heat. I'm burning almost exactly the same amount of wood that I did inside. then once I put heat in the 1200 sq ft shop I started burning 30 percent more wood. I really cant recommend listening to anyone who hasn't burned in both. just because I WAS ONE OF THE NAY SAYERS!! until I finally built my own. all in all my system and install cost me about $5000 and probably 300hrs labor. but after owning one i can c how ppl can justify spending $15000 on a system. i guess the most logical way for someone to decide what is better (other than listening to someone who has burned in both) is to try to find someone who used an owb and didn't like it. with the exception of someone who bought a cheap p.o.s. owb. the only other way to explain it is putting it in dollar terms. before i owned an owb if someone walked up to me and offered me 1000 dollars to never burn in an owb i would have jumped all over that deal. but after owning one i wouldn't take less than 80,000 to give up my owb. that's about what it would cost me to update my old drafty farm house to make it energy efficient enough to make burning propane cost friendly. i used to spend 3500 a year on propane, and that's keeping the house at 65. so no disrespect to the ones who only burned in an owb, or to the inside burners, more power to u guys btw. but if u haven't done both u'll really never understand.

so really the question to ask is if u have burned in both then how much would someone have to offer u to go back to burning inside?


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## ziggo_2 (Jan 21, 2013)

Wood furnace here.. I can get by loading only twice a day if i want. Its not anything fancy, but it heats the house. I can stay warm if the power goes out. The "mess" is in the basement, and im lucky to still have the old cellar door to the outside, so stocking up on wood is easy. I could not justify the extra cost to buy, install, and operate a boiler. They have there place, and its not here at my house. 

I know people that have a OWB and it sucks. It goes through as much wood in one day as i do in a week. Its also a poor install and is not maintained very well, which has alot to do with its problems. 

If you notice, those who complain about getting up to load their stove, or that its not warm enough are usually using junk wood, junk stoves, or bad installs.


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## Steve NW WI (Jan 21, 2013)

Yay! The annual OWB vs stove thread!

I'm not anti OWB, might own one in a few years once I have a shop to heat as well. As it is right now, a stove is a better choice for me.

The pluses and minuses in my personal balance sheet:

OWB pros: 
No wood in the house, no fire in the house.
Convenient. Just turn the knob for more heat.
Evenly distributed heat.
Longer burn times, especially with an oversized for the load needed unit.

Cons:
More wood used. (Depending on model)
Needs power.
Cost, especially to retrofit
Political issues, especially with non-EPA units.
Going outside at -20F to reload.

Stove pros:
Simple, generally work without electricity, etc.
Inexpensive (Unless you want a high dollar purty stove)
Ambiance. Give me Fire TV and I'm happy.
Efficient, depending on the unit of course.

Cons:

Wood and related debris in the house
Fire inside.
Uneven heat. (Actually a "pro" for me, I can go where I'm comfortable in the house)
More work, wood in the house, ashes out, generally smaller pieces needed.

There are more, but that's what comes to mind. Even if I do go the OWB route down the road, there WILL be a wood stove in the house. There's no substitute for a warm stove to back up to after a long day out in the cold. An OWB, even with radiators just doesn't take the chill out of cold bones like a stove does.

Long live wood heat, in whatever form you prefer!


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## John R (Jan 21, 2013)

Dogsout said:


> Do you think it would be a fair statement that if you burn wood for heat regardless weather it is indoor stove or an OWB that a bigger percentage of people on this board have a back up generator then not? (I have one for the record) I believe that most of the people on this board you would be hard pressed to catch them with their pants down regardless of the situation thrown at them. Again just an observation on my part.



I agree, people that burn wood for heat are more prepared for the worst of times, and are self sufficient.


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## AIM (Jan 21, 2013)

Steve NW WI said:


> Yay! The annual OWB vs stove thread!



Well somebody had to start it.:msp_biggrin:


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## jh35 (Jan 21, 2013)

Had a basement wood furnace for 12+ years now an OWB. I not argueing either way just subscribing.


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## garyischofield (Jan 21, 2013)

*major bonus*

I'm using a cb e2300 owb.It has a healthy appetite for wood.The percentage of saleable firewood burned depends on my energy level,heat demands,and available time to stoke the boiler.I burn 95% junk wood.Chunks,punky/rotten,insect damaged,unsaleable softwoods/Poplar.Being in the firewood/logging business provides me with a lot of unsaleable wood.I had a neighbor who does tree work haul 4-5 cords of hybrid Poplar in 18-20" lengths to me.It required getting up at 3:00 a.m.to restoke the firebox on demanding nights.I do keep 8-10 cords of Black Birch and Oak firewood stacked as an insurance policy for demanding heat days.I am in the process of installing a woodstove(Jotul Elg)for the fringe heating seasons when the boiler is overkill.My electric bill is $50 a month higher in owb usage months.Overall,it's been a positive experience.The woodstove will add a degree of security for power outages.


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## bowtechmadman (Jan 21, 2013)

It would take a considerable amount of money to entice me to go back to burning indoors. I've also burnt indoors and with an OWB. We could start the conversation at 100K, the only fire inside the house now is a fireplace burning on occasion for the ambiance.
Each to their own, been there done that I'll take my OWB.


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## Kevin in Ohio (Jan 21, 2013)

garyischofield said:


> .My electric bill is $50 a month higher in owb usage months.



That's interesting as my electric bill goes down during the heating season. I have 2 meters here as my outbuildings/shop are on one and my house/boiler are on another. Shop usage goes up as I spend more time in there on projects as opposed to working more on outside things. Are you heating your water? That normally is an offset at least. How many pumps are you running? I run 2 constant and 2 zone pumps.


I've had both systems and like the OWB much more. As far as costs go, with total costs of system took 4 years to pay for itself. I'm on my 8th year now with it.


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## Blazin (Jan 21, 2013)

bowtechmadman said:


> It would take a considerable amount of money to entice me to go back to burning indoors. I've also burnt indoors and with an OWB. We could start the conversation at 100K, the only fire inside the house now is a fireplace burning on occasion for the ambiance.
> Each to their own, been there done that I'll take my OWB.



Same here! I heat 3 buildings that add up to around 5000 sq ft, with a normal winter I usually burn 14 cord or a bit more. I drive up to it, throw wood in, shut the door, and I'm on my way....all in about 2 minutes. 7 years ago before the OWB, I was heating all three buildings with oil, 2200 gallons a season.....Right now that's 2200 x $4.11 = $9042  I'd blow muh head off if I had to chase 3 indoor wood stoves to do what the OWB does :help:


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## Butch(OH) (Jan 21, 2013)

We are heating workshop and home with a 4400 Woodmaster for now the 6th season. Prior to that we heated the same spaces with an 80s Arrow wood stove (shop) and a Timbereze add on wood/coal furnace. I don't think we are using anymore wood now that before plus we are heating our domestic water. I will never go back to indoor wood heat, just the fact we can leave home without a thought about a fire is worth any small amount of extra wood we burn, if any. Wife has become used to never having smoke smell in the home, dust etc and says NEVER again will we burn inside, she wont even let me light the fireplace.
Without a doubt an OWB is going to burn more wood than a small woodstove that heats a room or two. Almost everyone who uses an OWB also heats the domestic water and most tend to think of that as a minimal thing but I can tell when the ole woman is washing clothes or somebody is in the shower by the number of times the OWB cycles.


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## Turkeyslayer (Jan 21, 2013)

Dusty Rhodes said:


> Any indoor wood burners that heat large homes with one radiant heat unit?



In our home one stove wouldnt cut it. We ran a wood stove and a fireplace insert exclusively for the last 4 years. On cold windy nights I would have to get up several times to load the stoves. Now when it is cold and windy I top the owb up before bed and wake up to a toasty warm house. 

I have been there done that with wood stoves and personally I hope I dont have to go back. But to each their own.


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## taskswap (Jan 21, 2013)

Kevin in Ohio said:


> That's interesting as my electric bill goes down during the heating season. I have 2 meters here as my outbuildings/shop are on one and my house/boiler are on another. Shop usage goes up as I spend more time in there on projects as opposed to working more on outside things. Are you heating your water? That normally is an offset at least. How many pumps are you running? I run 2 constant and 2 zone pumps.
> 
> I've had both systems and like the OWB much more. As far as costs go, with total costs of system took 4 years to pay for itself. I'm on my 8th year now with it.



Ours goes up in the heating season too, but I don't think it's the pumps. They do draw power, but not very much - my Taco 007 draws less than an amp. Most furnace and wood stove blowers draw that much or more. I think our increase comes from spending more time indoors. More lights, more electronics, more appliances (stove is electric and we do more baking in the winter), etc.

I'll open the kimono here because I've kept close track of cost. All told I have just short of $7k into my install. That's the whole shebang, including things I would have done regardless of stove vs. furnace vs. boiler (stainless chimney liner and insulation). I got my boiler for $1700 off eBay. Yes, it's not EPA-rated but that wasn't in the cards. It also included the wood I bought - we're in a new house so I had to stock up. Four split/seasoned cords averaged $175/ea, three cords of log at $70/ea (not yet seasoned but there's some ash I may dig into in a pinch), and one cord I cut on the property early enough that it was seasoned by winter (free). So I had five cords laid down, which was less than I wanted but all I could manage in 6 months.

We're most of the way through the season now and we've burned 3.5 cords. Luckily it's been a warm winter, with plenty of 50-degree days, or we'd probably be back on oil now. In the future I'd like to have 8 cords down each winter, judging by our usage.

The house was on oil heat before we started. The rule of thumb says a fully seasoned cord is worth about 150gal of oil. So monkey-math against 8 cords would be 1200 gallons of oil, which I think is about right because our last house was a bit smaller and we filled a 250-gallon tank four times that winter. Around here oil is going for $3.90 a gallon, so that would be $4680/year for heating costs. (I said earlier it's a big, drafty house - we'll work on things like insulation and windows in future years.)

That means we'll be paid off and in the black in 2 years. No matter what you use - stove, IWB, OWB - wood is a great way to go these days if you're willing to put in the work. Keeps you healthy too. The only exception is natural gas because its price is so low - but I personally think that won't last, BECAUSE it's so cheap. Demand is going to go up for it, and they're going to be putting it into more cars and power plants. My personal opinion is that a product that largely comes from the same process as extracting oil can't go very long without moving to match the price of oil.

Thinking about it, I can't think of a better project. All the estimates say things like upgraded windows, solar, etc. have paybacks in 5-10+ years. A payback in 2 years is huge. I did not value my labor in the equation, but I believe that's a wash anyway because I needed the exercise, I enjoyed the work, and it was a family thing - everybody got involved. There are benefits there that make up for the work.


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## Kevin in Ohio (Jan 21, 2013)

taskswap said:


> Ours goes up in the heating season too, but I don't think it's the pumps. They do draw power, but not very much - my Taco 007 draws less than an amp. Most furnace and wood stove blowers draw that much or more. I think our increase comes from spending more time indoors. More lights, more electronics, more appliances (stove is electric and we do more baking in the winter), etc.
> 
> I'll open the kimono here because I've kept close track of cost. All told I have just short of $7k into my install. That's the whole shebang, including things I would have done regardless of stove vs. furnace vs. boiler (stainless chimney liner and insulation). I got my boiler for $1700 off eBay. Yes, it's not EPA-rated but that wasn't in the cards. It also included the wood I bought - we're in a new house so I had to stock up. Four split/seasoned cords averaged $175/ea, three cords of log at $70/ea (not yet seasoned but there's some ash I may dig into in a pinch), and one cord I cut on the property early enough that it was seasoned by winter (free). So I had five cords laid down, which was less than I wanted but all I could manage in 6 months.
> 
> ...



Well said, My paying it self off thing is slanted as well as I just included the houses fuel usage prior to me moving in. It's a family farm we've had for over 100 years but my grandparents used an oil burner. I added a 36' X 50' attached garage with radiant floor heat that the boiler does as well so that's a hidden bonus on the usage/savings.

If you have a source for wood, meaning it is only your labor/time invested in getting it, then that is a plus for a boiler. I'm 8 years ahead for wood now so I'm pretty well set. I still cut but it's ANOTHER warm fuzzy feeling knowing your ahead with dry fuel.

One commented about going out of the house in cold temps. I tend to go outside at least once a day anyway but like to sleep all night and not be cold in the morning. I did enough of that growing up and hated it. My boilers inside along with the years wood so it and I stay dry when feeding. To each their own and like someone said, it's about wood heat. MADE IN THE USA!


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## cantoo (Jan 21, 2013)

I'm heating 3500 sq ft with a Hotblast, works good for us. In an hour I'm going to pickup an old Fawcett furnace to put in my half built shop. That furnace will be heating 1500 sq ft with 2 big doors and 10' ceiling, it'll be burning all my crap wood during the day and hardwood at night. I have lots of crap wood that isn't worth putting in my basement for the Hotblast. At some point I will build my own OWB because I also have another house on my property that I heat with electric. So I could be heating 3500 sq ft house, 1200 sq ft house, 600 sq ft shop and a 1500 sq ft shop. good luck doing that with oil, propane, electric or solar. 

PS, OWB's are the assult weapon of the wood burning business, you don't really need one but they sure are nice to have. I would bet that looking at the Americans on this site that have OWBs at least 75% have a "assault" rifle. And if you look at us Canadians here I bet at least 75% have guns too. I already have the guns I just need to build the OWB. This should help the thread out.


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## Kemper (Jan 21, 2013)

The nearest i can figure is that my OWB burns maybe 20% more than the wood furnace in the basement when it is cold. Also heating the domestic hot water, and getting 12 to 14 hour burn times.

I have burnt wood for years, the OWB is the best investment i have ever made, i would hate to go back to stacking wood then loading it up and throwing it through the basement window then restacking it again by the furnace, not to mention all the wood smoke and dirt in the house...

The heat is also controlled with an OWB, not one extreme to another, It's always nice and warm in the morning.


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## jh35 (Jan 21, 2013)

Kemper said:


> The nearest i can figure is that my OWB burns maybe 20% more than the wood furnace in the basement when it is cold. Also heating the domestic hot water, and getting 12 to 14 hour burn times.
> 
> I have burnt wood for years, the OWB is the best investment i have ever made, i would hate to go back to stacking wood then loading it up and throwing it through the basement window then restacking it again by the furnace, not to mention all the wood smoke and dirt in the house...
> 
> The heat is also controlled with an OWB, not one extreme to another, It's always nice and warm in the morning.



Our house is 75 F all the time now. The old "smoke dragon" might have it in the low 80's in the evening to mid 60's when I got up. The lack of mess pleases the wife although she keeps an eye on my tidy-ness outside.

I haven't got a handle on much wood I've used since the OWB fired up this fall.My basement wood stacking area held 5 cord and that's about what I used with the old furnace. Since we haul logs from the woods and do the cutting/splitting at the inlaws across the road, now I come home from work to see a skid steer bucket or two dumped by the OWB before I run out. Pretty cool.


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## autoimage (Jan 21, 2013)

go ahead and split my toothpicks? am i being put down for splitting wood? obviously we do this cause we like it dont put my hobby down cause you dont like splitting wood


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## Jon B. (Jan 21, 2013)

I have a CB 5036 OWB and am liking it a bunch. It was just installed this fall, so I don't have years of experience with it. I have heated with an indoor, cast-iron, old-school stove but that was 30+ years ago.

Just in case, I bought a small (800W) generator to power the boiler in case of a power outage. I generally keep quite a bit of gasoline on hand for the mowers, chain saw, ATV and motorcycles, so we're OK there.

Our boiler gets fed in the evening, around 8pm. It still has wood remaining when Mrs. B. checks it around 8-9am. She tosses a few pieces in then, and a few more in the afternoon. If we feed it lightly during the day, the coals tend not to build up quite so much.

I installed it myself, heat about 1700 square feet of house, heat a 105-gallon domestic water heater and a 700 square foot attached garage (to 45 degrees or so). The total cost was ~$10k. A neighbor has a tree service, so I get lots of wood, a mile-and-a-half from my house. He asked if he can dump in my yard, even. Yes!!

I started the season with ~10-12 cords of mixed hardwood - ash, maple and walnut - some seasoned, much of it green. I've used about one third of it in 2 1/2 months. There's a decent pile for next year, so will be burning better fuel next winter.

Jon


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## AIM (Jan 21, 2013)

autoimage said:


> go ahead and split my toothpicks? am i being put down for splitting wood? obviously we do this cause we like it dont put my hobby down cause you dont like splitting wood



No one is putting anybody down. Hopefully this stays as a light hearted debate.


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## HEAVY FUEL (Jan 21, 2013)

I didn't read many of the previous posts, but the 2 main things that control wood consumption in my view are wind & thermostat setting. When it's -15 with -31 windchill, like it was here this morning, you want all the heat you can get. Even if I do have to burn more wood its labor I'm willing to do.


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## John R (Jan 21, 2013)

autoimage said:


> go ahead and split my toothpicks? am i being put down for splitting wood? obviously we do this cause we like it dont put my hobby down cause you dont like splitting wood



A little touchy, arn't we?:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


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## Blazin (Jan 21, 2013)

John R said:


> A little touchy, arn't we?:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:



:hmm3grin2orange: And here I wasn't gonna say anything :hmm3grin2orange:


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## chaikwa (Jan 21, 2013)

FLHX Storm said:


> Well, I'll tell ya, you won't ever find me using an OWB. What are you going to do?


The same thing I always do when the power goes out... open the door and make sure the generator started on its' own like it's supposed to do. We don't have power run into the property just to run the OWB. The horses need their water, the servers still need to be on-line and I still need to weld.



Del_ said:


> You guys can keep your complicated heating systems.
> 
> 
> FLHX Storm said:
> ...


Complicated??? You heat water and circulate it with a pump. If that's complicated you better just leave your slippers on in the mornin' and stay in the house! 

I have had an inside woodstove in the past. After 30 years as a career firefighter, there are 2 things I will never have: an inside wood burning stove and propane ANYWHERE on my property.


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## John R (Jan 21, 2013)

chaikwa said:


> The same thing I always do when the power goes out... open the door and make sure the generator started on its' own like it's supposed to do. We don't have power run into the property just to run the OWB. The horses need their water, the servers still need to be on-line and I still need to weld.
> 
> Complicated??? You heat water and circulate it with a pump. If that's complicated you better just leave your slippers on in the mornin' and stay in the house!
> 
> I have had an inside woodstove in the past. After 30 years as a career firefighter, there are 2 things I will never have: an inside wood burning stove and *propane ANYWHERE on my property.*



What's the problem with propane?
Just wondering.


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## chaikwa (Jan 21, 2013)

John R said:


> What's the problem with propane?
> Just wondering.



We've had more 'mishaps' with propane than I care to think about. It's very unforgiving. If it leaks, more times than not, it's going to find an ignition source. And it burns so fast that it's more of an explosion than a 'burn'. If an oil tank leaks, you'll end up with a costly mess. If propane leaks you'll end up with dead or injured people and huge property destruction. A 20 pound propane cylinder like what is found on a common barbecue grill has the explosive equivalent of 66 sticks of dynamite.


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## phantomblack (Jan 21, 2013)

We have a OWB and would not think twice about installing it again. It has saved us about 6K in the last three heating seasons, but the end of this one it will be "paid for".

Ours is doing our domestic hot water and is also hooked up to our in floor heating system to keep the house a constant 74 degrees.


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## AIM (Jan 21, 2013)

As far as splitting because you like to do it then by all means have at it. I certainly won't cut anyone down for it.
My point was simply that OWB owners don't HAVE to split. Well ok sure if it's a 3' piece but for the most part if you can lift it, it will go in.
Plus if I was so inclined I could cut everything 40" or so long and they will fit. (by the way I am not so inclined)
I've been on these forums quite a long time now and have heard a lot of bashing from a lot of people about OWB's and how they are so grossly inefficient, smoke to much and of course. Burn WAY to much wood. I'm just trying to point out (and debate a little) that while being all those bad things they are highly efficient to the user.

Kinda like hauling a 10 ton load of dirt. You use a dump truck. Not the trunk of your KIA.


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## taskswap (Jan 21, 2013)

John R said:


> What's the problem with propane? Just wondering.



Propane "can" be dangerous if not well managed because it's heavier than air. That makes it settle in places like basements if you have a leak, makey-big-boom time. But I think the bigger thing for me is cost - it's not actually much cheaper than fuel oil around here (I think it was $3.60/gal vs. $3.80/gal for oil), and it has fewer MBTU so it ends up costing more in the long run.

Devil's advocate: unlike gasoline it doesn't go "stale". For my portable generator it's no biggie. I run it all the time so gas is just fine, and it's easy to get. But I can see how people with a permament "auto-start" generator install might want propane because it requires so much less service.

Every fuel has its use, I guess. I'd cook on wood or propane but not oil or gas. I'd heat with wood or oil (my backup) but not propane or gas. I'd run my generator on gas or propane but not wood (ha!) or oil. And I run on bourbon, which is good in food too but is too expensive to run a generator or heater on...


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## spike60 (Jan 21, 2013)

AIM said:


> As far as splitting because you like to do it then by all means have at it. I certainly won't cut anyone down for it.
> My point was simply that OWB owners don't HAVE to split. Well ok sure if it's a 3' piece but for the most part if you can lift it, it will go in.
> Plus if I was so inclined I could cut everything 40" or so long and they will fit. (by the way I am not so inclined)
> I've been on these forums quite a long time now and have heard a lot of bashing from a lot of people about OWB's and how they are so grossly inefficient, smoke to much and of course. Burn WAY to much wood. I'm just trying to point out (and debate a little) that while being all those bad things they are highly efficient to the user.
> ...



You've made some good points, but this and your opening post are framed in "let's have an argument" language, so some people are simply accepting your invitaion. :msp_smile:

I have a buddy that I cut with and he has an OWB and I have an indoor stove, so we needle each other all the time. My favorite is when he's bulling some big heavy piece of wood into his truck or OWB and says, "You'd have to split this", and I reply, "Yeah, but I don't have to _lift_ it". He gets even with me by saying something like, "Your stove is probably going out now", when he knows I've been away for it for a whole day or whatever. We have some fun with it, and like many of the posts in this thread, both sides tend to make the negatives of either type of stove sound worse than they are. The indoor stove owner has to split, while the OWB guys have to cut more wood. The indoor guy has to load more frequently; the OWB guy has to go out in the cold, rain or snow. The pros and cons mostly even out IMO. 

For the money an OWB costs, and the extra amount of wood they use it wouldn't work for me. What's the average total cost for one of these things now, $10,000? Even the guy who posted earlier about building his own had $5000 in it. I might not always have the great access to wood like I do now, and if I needed twice as much I could see where I might end up having to buy wood, and I've never paid for a single piece of wood in my life. 

I think the best applications for an OWB are when you have to heat more than one building, or like some of you who have a large, perhaps older house that requires more than one stove. I guess in my mind an OWB would best make sense where it will do a job that a single woodstove is unable to do.


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## Como (Jan 21, 2013)

AIM said:


> As far as splitting because you like to do it then by all means have at it. I certainly won't cut anyone down for it.
> My point was simply that OWB owners don't HAVE to split. Well ok sure if it's a 3' piece but for the most part if you can lift it, it will go in.
> Plus if I was so inclined I could cut everything 40" or so long and they will fit. (by the way I am not so inclined)
> I've been on these forums quite a long time now and have heard a lot of bashing from a lot of people about OWB's and how they are so grossly inefficient, smoke to much and of course. Burn WAY to much wood. I'm just trying to point out (and debate a little) that while being all those bad things they are highly efficient to the user.
> ...



It would take a very long time to season?


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## AIM (Jan 21, 2013)

spike60 said:


> You've made some good points, but this and your opening post are framed in "let's have an argument" language, so some people are simply accepting your invitaion. :msp_smile:



Yeah I did come off a bit gnarly to start with...:taped: Didn't really mean to but yes i anticipated a nice healthy arguement.

As far as the OWB's cost. WOW!!! is all I can say. That to me. Is the only drawback to one.

I built mine and have somewhere between $3k and 4k in it. After having one I would not be afraid to spend 10k if I couldn't build my own. (I wouldn't like it but I'd spend it)


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## chaikwa (Jan 21, 2013)

AIM said:


> As far as the OWB's cost. WOW!!! is all I can say. That to me. Is the only drawback to one.


I will have an OWB in place and in operation by next fall. I am anticipating a cost of 15 to 18 thousand. We will have spent that much in oil in 2 years if we do NOT install an OWB. We've already spent 6500 this season alone for oil. We're heating a 17 room uninsulated, (for all intents and purposes), farm house, a training facility, an office, shop and apartment. Now how many woodstoves would it take to heat all that?:msp_biggrin:


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## zogger (Jan 21, 2013)

I would like both, cant afford an owb.

Actually I would rather a wood kiln, fired with scrap wood, oddball chunks, uglies, pine logs, sweetgum logs, whatever, and blow the moist hot air into the greenhouse at night in the winter..

For the money of one of those OWBs though, I would superinsulate (as close as I could)the house first and be done with it. Drop demand to hardly anything at all.

Insulation always trumps in the ROI arena over burning more fuel, in whatever heating device you have.

There is NOTHING made more efficient, furnace, stove, owb, any make or model or price (just talking about space heating now) than not needing it in the first place.

Until someone has actually seen and experienced a true bonafide superinsulated structure..meh, you wont believe it just reading about it.


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## ric5141 (Jan 21, 2013)

taskswap said:


> I've got an IWB and love it. Even with no power I can get some heat with convection (my dump zone runs that way) but that doesn't matter to me. We have a camper and can always cook with propane on the grill or in the camper. And we have well water and need power anyway for the pump - we need our generator during an outage even if it wasn't for heat.
> 
> Besides, because so many people around here are on oil or natural gas (both of which need power for the circulators), at least around here, it's REALLY unusual to lose power for a week. Hurricane Sandy did that, but it's been a decade since the last 3+ day outage. Usually it's only a day or two, and we go plenty of seasons without losing power for more than a few hours at a time. I'm happy with a generator being my "backup" option. If society goes THAT bad THAT fast I don't think I'd stick around on my 2 wooded acres. This ain't no farm.
> 
> ...



Ive been tossing around the IWB since I have oil fired HW. Just curious on what type you have and how long have you had it? Do you have a rough estimate on how many cord you burn a year. Do you still use oil at all?

Thanks


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## HEAVY FUEL (Jan 21, 2013)

spike60 said:


> You've made some good points, but this and your opening post are framed in "let's have an argument" language, so some people are simply accepting your invitaion. :msp_smile:
> 
> I have a buddy that I cut with and he has an OWB and I have an indoor stove, so we needle each other all the time. My favorite is when he's bulling some big heavy piece of wood into his truck or OWB and says, "You'd have to split this", and I reply, "Yeah, but I don't have to _lift_ it". He gets even with me by saying something like, "Your stove is probably going out now", when he knows I've been away for it for a whole day or whatever. We have some fun with it, and like many of the posts in this thread, both sides tend to make the negatives of either type of stove sound worse than they are. The indoor stove owner has to split, while the OWB guys have to cut more wood. The indoor guy has to load more frequently; the OWB guy has to go out in the cold, rain or snow. The pros and cons mostly even out IMO.
> 
> ...



Right on.... that's the way I explain it to most who say they'd love to have an OWB.... you'd better be heating some big buildings to justify it.


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## Woodomaker (Jan 21, 2013)

I agree with most comments on this tedious IWB / OWB subject.
One thing that is not mentioned is home owners insurance.....at least in my case OWB lowers said insurance.......


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## showrguy (Jan 21, 2013)

all right,
all right,
i gotta chime in here..
nothin against indoor woodstoves or their owners..
my house is right about 5600 sq. ft.
my attached garage is 30x62..
i burn around 20 cords of wood a year, about half or so of that is good wood (oak, hickory, locust)..the rest is not so good of wood..
it's impossible to say exactly what i will burn in a season because of too many variables, temp, wind, kind of wood ect..
i do not keep my garage @ 70 deg, but it rarely drops below 60, if i'm planning on being out there alot the radiant floor zone gets turned on..
if i'd only heat the house as i did years ago i burnt right about 10 cords of good wood..

so what i'm getting at is i absolutely could not afford to heat what i do now with gas, oil, or anything else.....period !!!
all the things i like about it are the same as anyone else with an OWB..

how much wood would i burn if i had 3 or 4 wood stoves going 24/7 ?? probably about the same ??


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## artbaldoni (Jan 21, 2013)

I have done all 3.

Woodstove inside is a PITA; dirt, smoke, hauling wood in. Loved the heat and low oil bill though. 

IWB was the greatest thing since sliced bread except...wood still inside (a least it was in the basement), occasional puff of smoke filtered up the steps, had to make sure I was burning perfect wood. Chimney cleaning was a necessity. Had to cut more wood.

OWB, now that sliced bread had butter and jam on it. No wood inside. No smoke inside. Still stoke twice a day. Yes, it uses more wood but not a lot more. I will go through 8-10 cords burning all year long - heat and DHW. No chimney cleaning.

The extra wood is ok for me. I used to work outside all year long. Cutting wood was a chore. Now I have a desk job and wood cutting is stress relief!

To each his own. That's why the make chocolate, vanilla and strawberry!


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## FLHX Storm (Jan 21, 2013)

chaikwa said:


> The same thing I always do when the power goes out... open the door and make sure the generator started on its' own like it's supposed to do. We don't have power run into the property just to run the OWB. The horses need their water, the servers still need to be on-line and I still need to weld.
> 
> Complicated??? You heat water and circulate it with a pump. If that's complicated you better just leave your slippers on in the mornin' and stay in the house!
> 
> I have had an inside woodstove in the past. After 30 years as a career firefighter, there are 2 things I will never have: an inside wood burning stove and propane ANYWHERE on my property.



Oh dear, if that's all you have for an OWB, you really should get yourself a new one because one day the pressure will cause it to go boom. Yep, pressure valves, thermo switches, your pumps, relays, thermocouples, n thermostat. But then I suppose you do have an understanding of thermodynamics if none of those safeties are in place. 

You see, I prefer not to have something that if one part fails the whole system won't operate. (other than my truck or motorcyce) Or even a cascade system failure caused by a defective relay. It's not that it is too complicated for me to understand or operate, far from it, but I prefer to have something that won't fail due to some seemingly insignificant part failing or perhaps a cold solder joint or short in the wiring. 

For some, I do understand their need to run either an OWB or IWB for their application, a large house, large shop, etc. Not a thing wrong with it as long as you properly maintain it, but for my specific application (a 3 bedroom poorly insulated house) a wood stove works just fine. It keeps the general living area a nice comfortable 73 to 75 degrees, and the bedrooms 71 to 73 degrees. N that's burning a cubic foot to foot and a half a day. 

BTW, just because I don't have an OWB or IWB, doesn't mean I can't afford it. The same applies to having a generator. I just have no need for either.

With that I will leave you with something to consider in your judgment of wood stoves. Just like chainsaws or motor vehicles, a wood stove is only as safe as it's operator.


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## H-Ranch (Jan 21, 2013)

FLHX Storm said:


> Oh dear, if that's all you have for an OWB, you really should get yourself a new one because one day the pressure will cause it to go boom. Yep, pressure valves, thermo switches, your pumps, relays, thermocouples, n thermostat. But then I suppose you do have an understanding of thermodynamics if none of those safeties are in place.



An OWB doesn't use all of the things you think of as complex because the system is open to the atmosphere - no chance of it going boom. Basically the only thing that will prevent the system from working is the pump and many of us keep a spare on hand with quick change flanges to boot. And if something catastrophic does fail on it, my house doesn't burn down.

As most agree, all of our woodburning devices have their place.


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## Blazin (Jan 21, 2013)

opcorn:


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## chaikwa (Jan 21, 2013)

H-Ranch said:


> As most agree, all of our woodburning devices have their place.


Yes, I agree with that. I guess I've just seen too much 'Joe Homeowner' scenario's to be comfortable with something like that inside my house. The last house fire I went to was caused by an improper wood stove chimney installation which was installed by a licensed installer... between the walls of a balloon frame house using single wall pipe. The homeowners thought they had done everything right. They had also just spent a considerable sum of money to renovate the interior of the house. We saved it but just barely. The fire got in between the floors, went up the walls and into the attic. No smoke alarms sounded because there was no smoke IN the house. They finally heard what they thought was a freight train and surmised they had a chimney fire but couldn't figure out why when they just had the chimney cleaned a month prior. Thankfully, they called us before they played hide and seek with the fire, which was rolling pretty good in the attic. By the time we got there the floor on the second floor was starting to smoke. I still have pics of the investigation of that one. No one in my line of work believed we saved a balloon frame house with that much fire involvement until they see the pics!


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## cantoo (Jan 21, 2013)

I've changed my mine since this mornings post. I went to buy a Fawcett wood furnace to heat my new shop, I did buy the Fawcett but then decided I also needed to buy the Pacfic Western OWB that he had sitting there. So count me in on the OWB is the way to go, I have no idea why anyone would want to have wood inside their house>>>>>>>. :msp_tongue: As for price, it was used so it's going to take less than 1 year for it to pay for itself and 1 more year to pay for the exchangers, lines and pump I need. I listed what I will be heating in an earlier post, this will do it by next year when I get it all installed. It only took an hour to install the Fawcett in my shop, it'll be for sale next fall. 
View attachment 274750
View attachment 274751
View attachment 274752


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## taskswap (Jan 21, 2013)

FLHX Storm said:


> Oh dear, if that's all you have for an OWB, you really should get yourself a new one because one day the pressure will cause it to go boom. Yep, pressure valves, thermo switches, your pumps, relays, thermocouples, n thermostat. But then I suppose you do have an understanding of thermodynamics if none of those safeties are in place.



I dunno, I have a T&P valve on mine, and it didn't seem that complicated to me... All of my safeties are a single $15 part.

Oh, wait... :notrolls2:

I get it. To each their own!


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## FLHX Storm (Jan 21, 2013)

taskswap said:


> I dunno, I have a T&P valve on mine, and it didn't seem that complicated to me... All of my safeties are a single $15 part.
> 
> Oh, wait... :notrolls2:
> 
> I get it. To each their own!



Really? And that's why they charge 5 to $20k for an OWB?






Here's a basic plan to build one. Cost is about $2000 it says to build. But it also tells you further down additional things you will need to hook it up. And NO, it's NOT COMPLICATED. 
http://www.deb-design.com/Boiler_IV_Samples.pdf

If your calling me a troll .......


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## Turkeyslayer (Jan 21, 2013)

zogger said:


> For the money of one of those OWBs though, I would superinsulate (as close as I could)the house first and be done with it. Drop demand to hardly anything at all.
> 
> Insulation always trumps in the ROI arena over burning more fuel, in whatever heating device you have.
> 
> ...




Our house would cost a mint to make efficient, probably be $30 000 plus just to replace the windows. I have more wood and time then money so I am fine with burning a #### whack of wood.


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## taskswap (Jan 21, 2013)

FLHX Storm said:


> If your calling me a troll .......



Ouch. I thought we were just having a fun discussion here.


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## woodguy105 (Jan 21, 2013)

Del_ said:


> Totally passive freestanding Jotul F600CB here with great fire viewing.
> 
> 
> You guys can keep your complicated heating systems.
> ...



Naaa, just wait for the next extended power outage....


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## FLHX Storm (Jan 21, 2013)

taskswap said:


> Ouch. I thought we were just having a fun discussion here.



What, you mean we're not having fun?





Seriously though, check out the pdf in the link. You'll see there are a lot more parts to putting one of these things together than just a circulator pump. The larger the OWB, the more intricate it becomes with zones and so on. 

Yes, I was using the wrong word. "Complicated" should have been "Intricate"


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## AIM (Jan 21, 2013)

FLHX Storm said:


> Oh dear, if that's all you have for an OWB, you really should get yourself a new one because one day the pressure will cause it to go boom. Yep, pressure valves, thermo switches, your pumps, relays, thermocouples, n thermostat. But then I suppose you do have an understanding of thermodynamics if none of those safeties are in place.



I think your not fully understanding the BASIC OWB. (forced air application)

You have an OPEN tank of water being heated by a fire. A little doohicky called an aquastat senses water temp and kicks on a blower that feeds the fire when needed to maintain set water temp.
A pump runs water through the lines nonstop. Much of the time your water is just getting dizzy from going round and round. 
Attached to these water lines in your ductwork is another doohicky called a heat exchanger (looks just like the radiator in your truck/ just smaller) When your house needs heat your t-stat simply kicks on your existing furnace fan. 
No pressure, no zones, no relays (well the aquastat might be a relay)
Yes there are many more parts than a simple stand alone stove but it's really quite simple.

Radiant floor heat OWB's have a few more parts.


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## cantoo (Jan 21, 2013)

FLHX, remind me again, how many sq ft are you heating? Not sure what the temp is there but tonight it's -13 C or 9 F here. With wind chill it feels like -23 C or -9 F. It's going to be -17 C or 1.5F tomorrow. Gonna be some smoke around here for the next few days. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention the wind gusting to 49 kms or 30 mph.


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## wndwlkr (Jan 21, 2013)

opcorn:


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## AIM (Jan 21, 2013)

cantoo said:


> FLHX, remind me again, how many sq ft are you heating? Not sure what the temp is there but tonight it's -13 C or 9 F here. With wind chill it feels like -23 C or -9 F. It's going to be -17 C or 1.5F tomorrow. Gonna be some smoke around here for the next few days. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention the wind gusting to 49 kms or 30 mph.



Her post in another thread.

The temperature made it to 50 yesterday, but only 42 today. The winds have shifted from coming out of the east to now coming out of the west and northwest at 10mph with gusts up to 22mph so far. Tomorrow is predicted to have a high of 18 degrees but back into the low 40's by Friday.


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## J1m (Jan 21, 2013)

AIM said:


> Her post in another thread.
> 
> The temperature made it to 50 yesterday, but only 42 today. The winds have shifted from coming out of the east to now coming out of the west and northwest at 10mph with gusts up to 22mph so far. Tomorrow is predicted to have a high of 18 degrees but back into the low 40's by Friday.



Oh good lord...that's BARELY shoulder season where I live. Did I say barely?


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## johnnylabguy (Jan 21, 2013)

Good Thread! Just because I battle back and forth between both methods for my next woodburning appliance. I currently use a whole house heating indoor furnace in the basement. I love that the house is evenly heated and the mess is in the basement PLUS i have a lower level garage that I just back the fully wood-loaded gator into right next to the woodburner room. I love stoking my fire indoors and don't have to split or cut that small because of the size of the fire box....

BUT...when I add a building to the property there's most likely going to be an OWB in the picture. Heating two buildings with one appliance is just too handy. Not to mention the part about the fire being outside where it can't destroy everything you've worked for in your life from the one mistake of accidently leaving the ashpan door open(that you swear you'd never leave) until your child is bawling upstairs(thank God for smoke detectors knowing the flue pipe was red hot) or some other instance where your house could burn. I grew up in a house that had a chimney fire that burned some structure before the Fire Department stepped in, and thought it could NEVER happen to me. But it almost has. Thats a pretty good reason for an OWB.

That being said...If you don't have a lot of square footage to heat and a sizeable woodlot to cut from...an OWB is not sensible.

I just hope my wife reads this so I can get a Pole Barn and an Outdoor Wood Burner! 

To each his own... and yes its 7 degrees outside and my house is 73 while my fuel oil furnace and my heat pump are gathering cobwebs and playing poker. I think i just might go to the trading post to buy a chainsaw and tractor with my savings now so I can fill up my barn...


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## FLHX Storm (Jan 22, 2013)

For a better understanding on how these OWB systems work, what they actually entail, here is a file from Central Boiler with several different setups. So yes, I do have an understanding even if I do live in a more temperate climate that some of y'all. However, that does not mean there are no OWB's in this area. I have seen several and there is one down the road a piece, but like I said, they would not suit my purpose.

http://www.centralboiler.com/media/CBSystemDiagrams.pdf


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## Como (Jan 22, 2013)

FLHX Storm said:


> For a better understanding on how these OWB systems work, what they actually entail, here is a file from Central Boiler with several different setups. So yes, I do have an understanding even if I do live in a more temperate climate that some of y'all. However, that does not mean there are no OWB's in this area. I have seen several and there is one down the road a piece, but like I said, they would not suit my purpose.
> 
> http://www.centralboiler.com/media/CBSystemDiagrams.pdf



A friend has a CB, runs it pretty much year around, anyway they were running out of wood, their usual supplier failed and I had a few cords that were cut a little long so I dropped them off, keep them going for a few weeks.

I did not like the idea of loading in the wind and the cold, so have a building in which my IWB is in, big enough for my water system, a few weeks of wood and some other stuff. Then insulated pex into the main building. Best of both. And per btu I will use a lot less wood.

I would totally agree with the well insulated passive solar approach, then the issue goes away It gets cold here, really cold, a friend has a 5,000 sq ft house, very well built and insulated, they heat mainly with 2 stoves due to the distance, but it is an unusual day when Solar does not do the job. In the little house that we have which is very well insulated and well positioned the stove will cook us out, there is electrical back up but that only really kicks in at night is we are away. And is pretty minimal, no way a Boiler system would be logical for this house.


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## roostersgt (Jan 22, 2013)

Been reading up on those OWB units lately. Intriguing to say the least. Maybe someday I'll pop for one for our cabin in the hills. For now, like many of us older guys, getting up in the middle of the night to re-load the wood stove isn't really anything "extra". I get up at least twice a night since getting older anyways. When staying at the cabin, it just means stopping short of the bathroom for a few seconds, bending over, and throwing another log on the coals. No problem. Doesn't really heat much over 70-74 during the winters there, as it's in the teens most of the time, but the price is right and we only burn around 2 cords per year. I'm not against getting a OWB later. To the contrary, I think it might have great advantages, especially coupled with a wood stove. BTW, we also own a generator because of frequent power outages due to excessive snow fall and downed power lines etc...

To be fair, we only go there for a couple of days each week to ski and get out of the valley, so it's safe to say we'd be burning much more wood if we were there full time. Another thing, the wife really enjoys feeding the fire and burning every single combustible thing she can think of. Gives he something to do, I guess, while I watch cable TV. The downside, as has been stated here, is the ash and wood mess inside the cabin. Lots of clean up. It's still far better in my opinion than having to pay for gas, propane or electric heat. Our bill is only around $40-$55 per month, and I keep our well insulated "no frills" hot tub on year 'round.


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## FLHX Storm (Jan 22, 2013)

cantoo said:


> FLHX, remind me again, how many sq ft are you heating? Not sure what the temp is there but tonight it's -13 C or 9 F here. With wind chill it feels like -23 C or -9 F. It's going to be -17 C or 1.5F tomorrow. Gonna be some smoke around here for the next few days. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention the wind gusting to 49 kms or 30 mph.



Shoot, I've ridden my motorcycle in colder temperatures than that when I lived up north. 20 below (Fahrenheit) not counting the wind chill on a Harley Softail Custom. No windshield n no heated gear, no thermal undies with my regular clothing, and a leather jacket. My average speed was 70mph with at least 20mph head winds. Oh, n no helmet either. Sounds to me like y'all need to buck up and grow a set. Damn kids anyway (yes I know your 50, AIM is 44 and J1M is 38) otstir: :hmm3grin2orange:


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## Blazin (Jan 22, 2013)

zogger said:


> For the money of one of those OWBs though, I would superinsulate (as close as I could)the house first and be done with it. Drop demand to hardly anything at all.
> 
> Insulation always trumps in the ROI arena over burning more fuel, in whatever heating device you have.
> 
> ...



Very true, which is what I'm in the middle of doing now. One house I'm heating I've replaced windows and beefed up the insulation 5 years ago, the other is completely gutted now and is getting new windows and foam insulation (R42 ceilings and R28 walls). Hopefully I'll sell my house this spring and get moved into the new place, then I'll be just heating the newly renovated "super insulated" shack and a 4 bay garage (kept at 40° unless I'm using it). I'm willing to bet I'll see a 60% or better drop in wood usage. I'll still be using the OWB, but I got a little heater I built just to blow the chill off in the spring and fall :msp_wink:


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## AIM (Jan 22, 2013)

I have read about these super insulated homes. Apparently if built correctly. They are only heated during the very cold periods. Even at that point it supposedly takes very little additional heat. 
The rest of the time the heat from appliances, body heat, etc actually is enough to keep the structure warm.
I wish I had looked into these when I built my house. If I had though I wouldn't be here right now. No way I'd burn wood if I could heat my house for $20 a month.:msp_biggrin:


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## Uncle John (Jan 22, 2013)

FLHX Storm said:


> Shoot, I've ridden my motorcycle in colder temperatures than that when I lived up north. 20 below (Fahrenheit) not counting the wind chill on a Harley Softail Custom. No windshield n no heated gear, no thermal undies with my regular clothing, and a leather jacket. My average speed was 70mph with at least 20mph head winds. Oh, n no helmet either. Sounds to me like y'all need to buck up and grow a set. Damn kids anyway (yes I know your 50, AIM is 44 and J1M is 38) otstir: :hmm3grin2orange:




You forgot to mention shorts and flip flops!


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## chaikwa (Jan 22, 2013)

FLHX Storm said:


> Here's a basic plan to build one. Cost is about $2000 it says to build.


Yep, that can be done. You can get Yugo's real cheap too, doesn't mean I want one!

I'm still waiting for the explanation of how I can heat that 17 room house with a woodstove. Did I mention it has no basement? 



Turkeyslayer said:


> Our house would cost a mint to make efficient, probably be $30 000 plus just to replace the windows.


So would ours. We looked into it and the cost between the 2 buildings was going to exceed $45,000. And the house is something we plan on selling as soon as the old bat kicks the bucket anyway, so there's no way we're dumping money, and TIME, into that dive!



taskswap said:


> Ouch. I thought we were just having a fun discussion here.


It seems from the tone of some of the posts that a fight was what they came looking for from the get-go. They found it!



woodguy105 said:


> Naaa, just wait for the next extended power outage....


We already went over that. 



AIM said:


> ... A little doohicky called an aquastat senses water temp and kicks on a blower that feeds the fire when needed to maintain set water temp. No pressure, no zones, no relays (well the aquastat might be a relay)


I think the aquastat is more of a thermostat, but because it's sensing water temperature instead of air temperature, it gets the 'aqua' name instead of the 'thermo' name. Hmmm... that DOES sound rather complicated and intricate, doesn't it! :msp_scared:


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## FLHX Storm (Jan 22, 2013)

Uncle John said:


> You forgot to mention shorts and flip flops!



Oooo, now that would be a brisk ride! :msp_scared:

On a bike you'll never find me with those things on! That's just plain nuts! 

BTW, I was wearing insulated gloves but my boots weren't.


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## pennsywoodburnr (Jan 22, 2013)

FLHX Storm said:


> Shoot, I've ridden my motorcycle in colder temperatures than that when I lived up north. 20 below (Fahrenheit) not counting the wind chill on a Harley Softail Custom. No windshield n no heated gear, no thermal undies with my regular clothing, and a leather jacket. My average speed was 70mph with at least 20mph head winds. Oh, n no helmet either. Sounds to me like y'all need to buck up and grow a set. Damn kids anyway (yes I know your 50, AIM is 44 and J1M is 38) otstir: :hmm3grin2orange:



Storm, being a fellow rider I'm not sure how to take this. I've also ridden in extremely cold temps. My coldest was in the single digits with a stiff 25 mph wind blowing. I had on thick socks over my boots, a t-shirt then a polartec fleece sweatshirt then a regular sweatshirt over that. Dual insulated coveralls on top of each other plus a goose down filled jacket on top of all that. Snowmobile gloves topped it all off and a full face helmet to boot. I still froze my ass off on my commute into work. Not to sound like I'm calling you out here, but I find it tough to believe you could survive for long in those temps you rode with just regular clothing and a leather jacket and no helmet. For what it's worth now, I do have an electric vest, and could never go back. Again, sorry if it sounds like I'm being combatitive here. It's just tough for me to swallow that one....


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## FLHX Storm (Jan 22, 2013)

chaikwa said:


> Yep, that can be done. You can get Yugo's real cheap too, doesn't mean I want one!
> 
> I'm still waiting for the explanation of how I can heat that 17 room house with a woodstove. Did I mention it has no basement?



I'm thinking you would need at least 4 woodstoves, maybe even 5, but then don't figure on getting any rest trying to keep the fires burning. Of course you would need something more efficient if your going to burn wood and the only viable option is an OWB. 

BTW, I didn't come looking for a fight or have a chip on my shoulder, but if someone is going to take jabs at me both here and real life, I do tend to jab back. Point is, don't dish it out if you can't take it! This is supposed to be a mature adult forum, and some need to start acting more like adults and I should not have stooped to their level! 

All I did was put out there my reasons for a wood stove and did not condemn those with OWB or IWB's. Instead of a fairly intelligent conversation to follow, I see quite a bit of sarcasm and ridicule coming from a handful directed towards me. Then geez, focusing on one or two words (complicated & intricate) without following the structure which it was used in? How adult is that? At any rate, this is the type of system I was referring to as being complicated or intricate, you choose the term.
http://www.centralboiler.com/media/CBSystemDiagrams.pdf

All I can say is I'm really sorry to have posted in this thread.


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## FLHX Storm (Jan 22, 2013)

pennsywoodburnr said:


> Storm, being a fellow rider I'm not sure how to take this. I've also ridden in extremely cold temps. My coldest was in the single digits with a stiff 25 mph wind blowing. I had on thick socks over my boots, a t-shirt then a polartec fleece sweatshirt then a regular sweatshirt over that. Dual insulated coveralls on top of each other plus a goose down filled jacket on top of all that. Snowmobile gloves topped it all off and a full face helmet to boot. I still froze my ass off on my commute into work. Not to sound like I'm calling you out here, but I find it tough to believe you could survive for long in those temps you rode with just regular clothing and a leather jacket and no helmet. For what it's worth now, I do have an electric vest, and could never go back. Again, sorry if it sounds like I'm being combatitive here. It's just tough for me to swallow that one....



I only lived up north for a few years and then came back south. But, the incident I mentioned is true. I just didn't mention I was in the throws of menopause for effect. I could have been out riding naked and still been too hot. I had one neighbor ask, why I was sweating when the temperature was well below zero and I was wearing nothing but a tee shirt n shorts putzing around outside. If you want their phone number, I think I can still find it and I doubt they would have forgotten that incident or me for that matter. 

The coldest I rode in here was when I was closing on this property. I had my truck delivered so all I had was my bike. The temperatures were in the teens with cross winds that would curl your toes, but I was truly dressed for the cold. If it could be insulated, it was, and honestly it still wasn't enough. I was wearing a helmet at that time. Big difference between going through and gone through menopause. 

The only thing electrically heated are my handgrips, once I get them installed that is. I still have them in their original packaging sitting in the garage. They've been there for about a year and a half now.


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## chaikwa (Jan 22, 2013)

FLHX Storm said:


> BTW, I didn't come looking for a fight or have a chip on my shoulder, but if someone is going to take jabs at me both here and real life, I do tend to jab back. All I did was put out there my reasons for a wood stove and did not condemn those with OWB or IWB's. I see quite a bit of sarcasm and ridicule coming from a handful directed towards me.


Really? For someone who doesn't have a chip on their shoulder, your very first post seemed pretty condescending to me. And from the responses to that post, I think there were quite a few others who thought along the same line as I did. Here's your first post in this thread:



FLHX Storm said:


> *Well, I'll tell ya, you won't ever find me using an OWB.* They may be fine for some, but they don't do a thing for me. First, if the power goes off for a week in mid winter, What are you going to do? It takes electricity to run those pumps that get the heat into the house. If y'all are like many folk, they use electricity to cook with. I know do. BUT no electricity, no use of the electric stove, microwave, coffee maker and so on.
> 
> You'll never hear me complain about those hot spots you mentioned or getting up in the morning to add toothpicks to the fire to get the house where it might be considered warm because chances are, I'm up in the middle of the night anyway. I might be composing email or reading here on AS.
> 
> ...



Over-all, I get the impression you think you're just a little better than anyone who has an OWB because you're more independent from the 'outside world' and more self-reliant. I lived for 20+ years like you WANT to live, (small cabin, cut and split all my firewood by hand, woodstove to heat the whole place, no electricity, no running water in the winter), and I can tell you first hand it didn't make me any better! It made me an idiot for not taking advantage of the basic services available to me and planning in advance for instances where those services may not be available for a period of time, whether due to environmental circumstances or something I did or didn't do, like pay the electric bill. In essence, it was like not cooking food with fire because I could get by eating raw meat. 



FLHX Storm said:


> ... this is the type of system I was referring to as being complicated or intricate, you choose the term.
> http://www.centralboiler.com/media/CBSystemDiagrams.pdf


It is neither. A household forced hot water/baseboard heating, plumbing and wiring system is more complicated and intricate than anything in those diagrams. Hot water coming into a house from an outside boiler and going back to the boiler again is about as basic as it gets. If adding a 'Y-strainer' or a by-pass valve makes it intricate...


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## Uncle John (Jan 22, 2013)

Can't we all just get along? .:msp_biggrin:


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## H-Ranch (Jan 22, 2013)

FLHX Storm said:


> Yes, I was using the wrong word. "Complicated" should have been "Intricate"



Still using the wrong word - keep trying. The only thing complicated or intricate about this thread is you trying to explain yourself when you don't know what you're talking about.


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## Marc (Jan 22, 2013)

Uncle John said:


> Can't we all just get along? .:msp_biggrin:



Them's fightin words.

Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelt of elderberries!


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## mizzou (Jan 22, 2013)

Uncle John said:


> Can't we all just get along? .:msp_biggrin:



I doubt it,:msp_biggrin: interesting thread none the less.


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## chaikwa (Jan 22, 2013)

Del_ said:


> Wonder how long insulated PEX line will last before the insulation starts to break down?


I don't know. But I DO know there is a huge difference between manufacturers of this product. One of my friends bought the $5 a foot stuff and his is buried 2 feet below grade and the snow melts over the piped area. Another friend has the $13 a foot stuff and the first year he had it laid out on top of the ground because the ground was frozen when he did his install. The snow covered his pex and never melted until spring.


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## FLHX Storm (Jan 22, 2013)

I may not know a heck of a lot about OWB's or IWB's but from what I do know from the research I've done, and what I've been able to learn here on AS, I would never want one attached to or in my home even if it were offered free with a free install and a lifetime supply of wood.


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## FLHX Storm (Jan 22, 2013)

Del_ said:


> How about long term boiler corrosion?



IF they are built like the ones that were used for heating large complexes years ago, I would imagine they would outlast the home they were attached to if they were properly maintained.


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## Kevin in Ohio (Jan 22, 2013)

FLHX Storm said:


> I may not know a heck of a lot about OWB's or IWB's but from what I do know from the research I've done, and what I've been able to learn here on AS, I would never want one attached to or in my home even if it were offered free with a free install and a lifetime supply of wood.



That is fine, you're allowed to have an OPINION like everyone else. Everyone has to find what works best for them, the pros and cons you might say. 

You said the following earlier, "Oh dear, if that's all you have for an OWB, you really should get yourself a new one because one day the pressure will cause it to go boom. Yep, pressure valves, thermo switches, your pumps, relays, thermocouples, n thermostat. But then I suppose you do have an understanding of thermodynamics if none of those safeties are in place."

This shows your "research" was pretty flawed in your understanding of them so your credibility is basically shot. No harm done but MISinformation like that needs to be pointed out so others don't base their decision on false info.

Simple checking on the water will help a lot of the corrosion aspect. I've added some inhibitor ONCE to mine in 9 years now and it was only borderline then. I have a stainless version which is a whole 'nother can of worms. 

If you're happy with what you have, great. Just do not spread falsehoods on an unknown.


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## Blazin (Jan 22, 2013)

Del_ said:


> Wonder how long insulated PEX line will last before the insulation starts to break down?
> 
> I was reading the other day where PEX may not have the life expectany that was predicted.
> 
> ...



Nothing lasts forever, and that is a fact :msp_wink:


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## pennsywoodburnr (Jan 22, 2013)

FLHX Storm said:


> I only lived up north for a few years and then came back south. But, the incident I mentioned is true. I just didn't mention I was in the throws of menopause for effect. I could have been out riding naked and still been too hot. I had one neighbor ask, why I was sweating when the temperature was well below zero and I was wearing nothing but a tee shirt n shorts putzing around outside. If you want their phone number, I think I can still find it and I doubt they would have forgotten that incident or me for that matter.
> 
> The coldest I rode in here was when I was closing on this property. I had my truck delivered so all I had was my bike. The temperatures were in the teens with cross winds that would curl your toes, but I was truly dressed for the cold. If it could be insulated, it was, and honestly it still wasn't enough. I was wearing a helmet at that time. Big difference between going through and gone through menopause.
> 
> The only thing electrically heated are my handgrips, once I get them installed that is. I still have them in their original packaging sitting in the garage. They've been there for about a year and a half now.



Lol the menopause thing answers alot! Please accept my apology. :msp_biggrin:


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## Arbonaut (Jan 22, 2013)

Ahh, OWB vs. Wood stove. What a classic. I'm in.


I'll take either over gas.
There is something between a common house mouse and a rat called a field mouse you don't want in on or near your cupboards.
There is something called a German cockroach you don't want on the place, I torch him out of his frozen dormancy in an abrupt way without acclimatizing him gently. Same way for Sawyer Beettle, EAB and all kind of larvae and grub. Don't seek morality or fishbait diversification lessons here.
Ants are a tough critter who like sugar, chocolate and carpet and blankets.
Teenage girls don't like bugs or field mice or anything similar. And they don't like being cold.
A Thirteen year old would turn Fourteen in the shower if you didn't remind 'em not to.
A door is somethin' a eleven year old boy is perpetually on the wrong side of.
Cold air, smoke and frozen wood is supossed to stay on the winter side of the house.
 I love dry air however, your woodwork does not.
My gas meter should be running back wards about now even though it was six deg F this mornin', I burned 500 lbs of oak yesterday and plugged in my truck for an hour. I would have to plug in my truck and pay a gas bill anyhow. When your gas man takes time out of his busy schedule to knock on the door to ask you you tell him a little about you setup and you gladly do so in a t-shirt while he wear coveralls, you are barkingup the right tree. An insect is still foriegn to the house. I may fart and stink in a way I once thought only my Dad could do, however there is no bugs making me house lack hygeine. And as far as wood boiler and the insurance man, He has one too.


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## jh35 (Jan 22, 2013)

Stroker Ace said:


> Ahh, OWB vs. Wood stove. What a classic. I'm in.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes sir I am in that position right now. With the owb, I let her enjoy it.


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## Woodomaker (Jan 22, 2013)

opcorn:


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## Blazin (Jan 22, 2013)

Woodomaker said:


> opcorn:



Duel fuel CB you got there?


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## AIM (Jan 22, 2013)

FLHX Storm said:


> I may not know a heck of a lot about OWB's or IWB's but from what I do know from the research I've done, and what I've been able to learn here on AS, I would never want one attached to or in my home even if it were offered free with a free install and a lifetime supply of wood.



Now that's just nuts little lady. (no I am not jabbing you or cutting you down) 

I think the cost is about the ONLY drawback to the system.


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## showrguy (Jan 22, 2013)

i just love the debates with "internet researchers".......
don't you ??


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## chaikwa (Jan 22, 2013)

AIM said:


> I think the cost is about the ONLY drawback to the system.


I don't think the cost is all that bad considering we got a fuel oil delivery today. Since the first of December the house alone has used $1800 worth of oil.


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## Ironworker (Jan 22, 2013)

AIM said:


> Well I've read many times here and quite honestly I've even made the comment about OWB's and wood. They take a LOT... Yes they do.
> But I've read time and time again about people tryin to make some dinky little half assed stove burn for a full day and then complainin about it.
> 
> Then they proclaim with all sorts of reasons that an OWB is just wasteful and nowhere near efficient enough.
> ...


And your point is.............


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## tld400 (Jan 22, 2013)

chaikwa said:


> I will have an OWB in place and in operation by next fall. I am anticipating a cost of 15 to 18 thousand. We will have spent that much in oil in 2 years if we do NOT install an OWB. We've already spent 6500 this season alone for oil. We're heating a 17 room uninsulated, (for all intents and purposes), farm house, a training facility, an office, shop and apartment. Now how many woodstoves would it take to heat all that?:msp_biggrin:



I would insulate the house first.:msp_smile:


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## chaikwa (Jan 22, 2013)

tld400 said:


> I would insulate the house first.:msp_smile:


There are other things that would have to be done along with insulation, making it a $40,000 project. AND, we plan on selling the house in the not-too-distant future. We have another building we are concentrating our efforts on with renovations, insulations and boiler-ations!


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## tld400 (Jan 22, 2013)

AIM said:


> I think your not fully understanding the BASIC OWB. (forced air application)
> 
> You have an OPEN tank of water being heated by a fire. A little doohicky called an aquastat senses water temp and kicks on a blower that feeds the fire when needed to maintain set water temp.
> A pump runs water through the lines nonstop. Much of the time your water is just getting dizzy from going round and round.
> ...



Forced air heat is the worst heat that I have ever seen, if its heat with a owb or gas. Its cold in house then hot then cold and so on.


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## tld400 (Jan 22, 2013)

chaikwa said:


> There are other things that would have to be done along with insulation, making it a $40,000 project. AND, we plan on selling the house in the not-too-distant future. We have another building we are concentrating our efforts on with renovations, insulations and boiler-ations!



oh ok thats all good.Just saying with my house is well insulated and what a difference.


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## chaikwa (Jan 22, 2013)

tld400 said:


> oh ok thats all good.Just saying with my house is well insulated and what a difference.


I hear ya! Our small office I built in one of our barns is so well insulated, the computers mostly heat it!


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## allstihl (Jan 22, 2013)

tough crowd, guess ill throw another log in the fire


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## AIM (Jan 22, 2013)

tld400 said:


> Forced air heat is the worst heat that I have ever seen, if its heat with a owb or gas. Its cold in house then hot then cold and so on.



Then you have no idea how to set up a t-stat. Or at least you need a new one.


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## tld400 (Jan 22, 2013)

AIM said:


> Then you have no idea how to set up a t-stat. Or at least you need a new one.[/Qt
> 
> 
> The t-stat is not the problem its the cool air in the duct work that blows out when it kicks on. Then once it finally heats up to temp house gets hot because it will run past temp. setting before it shuts off. Then repeats that over and over. I rather pay a higher electric bill than deal with that kind of heat. Had forced air but got rid of it and put ventless nat. gas in front of house and electric ind. zone in rooms for back up but haven;t turned gas or electric on since wood stove install. If I needed a owb I would def. hook it up for hot water baseboard. At least thats an even type of heat. When it turns off it still stays warm to it needs to heat up again. Everyone likes to heat their own way but sorry I think forced air sucks.:msp_thumbdn:


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## AIM (Jan 22, 2013)

tld400 said:


> The t-stat is not the problem its the cool air in the duct work that blows out when it kicks on. Then once it finally heats up to temp house gets hot because it will run past temp. setting before it shuts off. Then repeats that over and over. I rather pay a higher electric bill than deal with that kind of heat. Had forced air but got rid of it and put ventless nat. gas in front of house and electric ind. zone in rooms for back up but haven;t turned gas or electric on since wood stove install. If I needed a owb I would def. hook it up for hot water baseboard. At least thats an even type of heat. When it turns off it still stays warm to it needs to heat up again. Everyone likes to heat their own way but sorry I think forced air sucks.:msp_thumbdn:



Then you have no idea how to set up a t-stat. My house varies by 1.5° at the set temp. That cold air takes like 3 seconds to get warm.


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## tld400 (Jan 22, 2013)

AIM said:


> tld400 said:
> 
> 
> > Then you have no idea how to set up a t-stat.
> ...


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## AIM (Jan 22, 2013)

I can't give you the real explanation as to how to set them up because I did not do my own. Fortunately I have a couple friends that DO know how and if you would like I can get a detailed explanation and post it. I do know that it has a lot to do with t-stat location. Actually t-stat location is the biggest factor of all. Also many of the newer ones you can set the high and low temps versus the heat anticipator of the older ones. Yes your fan will run more often but your highs and lows will be pretty much unnoticed.
A friend set mine up and if I did not have an indoor temp sensor I would never know the temp had changed at all.

You might have to get your grandparents to upgrade their t-stat though.

I'm not saying that forced air is the cats meow but to say it sucks (as you put it) is simply a matter of lack of experience.

Another thing I'd like to point out. If grandparents furnace is set like many of the older stuff. The blower fan kicks on at like 100°. Well that is pretty cold as far as heating temp goes. Then it kicks off at 180°+ which is kinda hot as far as heating goes.
Yep your gonna get hot and cold. OWB's that have the pump running 24/7 will consistantly keep the heat exchanger at your set temp. No waiting for the furnace to heat up or cool down.

Don't compare forced air propane or oil to a forced air OWB. Just ain't the same at all!

Hope I enlightened you.


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## tld400 (Jan 22, 2013)

Del_ said:


> tld400 said:
> 
> 
> > I feel the same way about forced air heating systems.
> ...


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## Dogsout (Jan 22, 2013)

Del_ said:


> tld400 said:
> 
> 
> > I'd have to have hot water baseboard or *better yet, antique radiators like I grew up with*!
> ...


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## tld400 (Jan 22, 2013)

Del_ said:


> It's not just the temp change, it's also the wind chill factor involved with moving air across human skin.
> 
> 
> I grew up with hot water baseboard and in another house antique radiators.
> ...



Thats what my dads house has. He hAS natural gas hot water baseboard and central air for summer. He uses gas firepaces too when people come over and hang out in the den. I would set my house up that way but I love the woodstove now and it doesnt cost me anything but some gas for the chainsaw.


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## Arbonaut (Jan 22, 2013)

Heated floor is the ultimate. Getting mass in the system regulates the fluctuation. Either way, people need ventilation and also today we use a (filter?). How do you get around that with a static system? 

I like the old radiators, though. You could throw one helluva static charge off your finger. Good times.


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## tld400 (Jan 22, 2013)

AIM said:


> I can't give you the real explanation as to how to set them up because I did not do my own. Fortunately I have a couple friends that DO know how and if you would like I can get a detailed explanation and post it. I do know that it has a lot to do with t-stat location. Actually t-stat location is the biggest factor of all. Also many of the newer ones you can set the high and low temps versus the heat anticipator of the older ones. Yes your fan will run more often but your highs and lows will be pretty much unnoticed.
> A friend set mine up and if I did not have an indoor temp sensor I would never know the temp had changed at all.
> 
> You might have to get your grandparents to upgrade their t-stat though.
> ...


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## Blazin (Jan 24, 2013)

-15° here, loaded the boiler at 5 last night with eight 24" splits of ash, water temp still at 180° and 73° in the house 13 1/2 hours later.....WIN!


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## upsnake (Jan 24, 2013)

Tld400 - While i will agree with you I would rather have radiant floor heat, my house was built with forced air.
There are two things that i have found.
1. With propane, there is the cool down cycle at the end where the gas is off but it has to keep blowing air to cool off the heat exchanger. That part kinda sucked.

2. The thermostat should have a set back option. For example if i wanted my house to be 70, with a 3 degree setback, the furnace would kick on at 67 and off at 73. That much of a swing to me was not really comfortable.

The nice thing with heating with forced air and the CB OWB, is that I don't have to let the gas warm up and then cool off the heat exchanger. So i set my setback to 1 degree. The house ranges from 69.7 to 69.9. 
The blow comes on and off a little bit more this way but it is more comfortable, add to that I have a whole house humidifier it really is not bad in there.  


But as you said to each their own heating system. It was not worth the expense to change the heating system in my house, when the forced air furnace / AC was already there and in good shape.


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## greendohn (Jan 24, 2013)

I have a newer, LP 90+ efficient forced air furnace, with an OWB HE. In this old house when it's 3 degrees outside and I can keep the indoor temps at 72-74 degrees 24/7 with NO noticeable temp fluctuation and the LP shut off. My young daughters can lay on the floor to watch tv, do home work, and sit on a warm crapper day and night,,I got no complaints. How can it get any better?

I threw the old fire place insert out when I installed the OWB. I still keep an old wood stove in the detached garage to poke around at when I'm out there swillin' cold ones. I can and I have hooked it up to the fire place in the house, a "trial run" in the event of a long term power failure, which I haven't seen since I was a kid in the late 70's. I've gotta Honda and a Yamaha generator, both small ones, that may or may not run things if I need 'em. It seems drastic, but, in the event of prolonged power loss, should the generators not hold up, I guess I would drain the OWB to keep it from freezing and run the free standing wood stove for the duration.


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## tld400 (Jan 24, 2013)

upsnake said:


> Tld400 - While i will agree with you I would rather have radiant floor heat, my house was built with forced air.
> There are two things that i have found.
> 1. With propane, there is the cool down cycle at the end where the gas is off but it has to keep blowing air to cool off the heat exchanger. That part kinda sucked.
> 
> ...



I only have had exp. with the gas versions of the forced air and it did exactly what you are saying. Thats why I didnt like it. But if the owb makes a dif. in the way the heat fluxuates that is great. :msp_thumbup:


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## Dogsout (Feb 3, 2013)

FLHX Storm said:


> Shoot, I've ridden my motorcycle in colder temperatures than that when I lived up north. 20 below (Fahrenheit) not counting the wind chill on a Harley Softail Custom. No windshield n no heated gear, no thermal undies with my regular clothing, and a leather jacket. My average speed was 70mph with at least 20mph head winds. Oh, n no helmet either. Sounds to me like y'all need to buck up and grow a set. Damn kids anyway (yes I know your 50, AIM is 44 and J1M is 38) otstir: :hmm3grin2orange:





pennsywoodburnr said:


> Storm, being a fellow rider I'm not sure how to take this. I've also ridden in extremely cold temps. My coldest was in the single digits with a stiff 25 mph wind blowing. I had on thick socks over my boots, a t-shirt then a polartec fleece sweatshirt then a regular sweatshirt over that. Dual insulated coveralls on top of each other plus a goose down filled jacket on top of all that. Snowmobile gloves topped it all off and a full face helmet to boot. I still froze my ass off on my commute into work. Not to sound like I'm calling you out here, but I find it tough to believe you could survive for long in those temps you rode with just regular clothing and a leather jacket and no helmet. For what it's worth now, I do have an electric vest, and could never go back. Again, sorry if it sounds like I'm being combatitive here. It's just tough for me to swallow that one....



Hate to beat a dead horse but here we go. Pennsy you tried to be nice and question her comments about riding in cold weather, but I am pulling out the BS card big time. In the situation you described above Flhx I don't care if you were totally engulfed in flames you could not ride more then a MILE in those conditions without getting a nice case of frostbite. Heck you could not keep your eyes open because they would instantly freeze the water in them. 20 below, 20mph head wind, @ 70 mph, with minimal protection I'm just going to take a stab that the windchill would come in somewhere around 100 below zero. Your credibility took a hit on your untrue comments about OWB and now you throw this farce in to the equation and I would be hard pressed to believe you if you said the sun will rise in the east in the morning, until I seen it for myself. I have done my fair share of cold weather riding and I agree 100% with Pennsy's comments above. I am 53 so I will save you some time looking my age up when you reply. Finally if you had a PAIR and you could actually do what you stated above, you wouldn't have them for long as they would be froze and long gone.


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## AIM (Feb 4, 2013)

Several years back a coworker had to take his Harley in for some service during the winter. He was planning to trailer it to the dealer about an hour away. While getting ready to go he noticed a bad tire, wheel bearing, or something that I can't remember was wrong with the trailer. He thought what the hell I'll just ride and have his wife follow. I remember he said it took like 2 hours to make the hour trip due to stopping all the time to warm up.

If memory serves he fixed his trailer to pick up his bike when it was done.


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## Uncle John (Feb 4, 2013)

Dogsout said:


> Hate to beat a dead horse but here we go. Pennsy you tried to be nice and question her comments about riding in cold weather, but I am pulling out the BS card big time. In the situation you described above Flhx I don't care if you were totally engulfed in flames you could not ride more then a MILE in those conditions without getting a nice case of frostbite. Heck you could not keep your eyes open because they would instantly freeze the water in them. 20 below, 20mph head wind, @ 70 mph, with minimal protection I'm just going to take a stab that the windchill would come in somewhere around 100 below zero. Your credibility took a hit on your untrue comments about OWB and now you throw this farce in to the equation and I would be hard pressed to believe you if you said the sun will rise in the east in the morning, until I seen it for myself. I have done my fair share of cold weather riding and I agree 100% with Pennsy's comments above. I am 53 so I will save you some time looking my age up when you reply. Finally if you had a PAIR and you could actually do what you stated above, you wouldn't have them for long as they would be froze and long gone.




You would be found in the ditch you and the cycle laying on your sides frozen together!


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## XSKIER (Feb 4, 2013)

FLHX Storm said:


> Well, I'll tell ya, you won't ever find me using an OWB. They may be fine for some, but they don't do a thing for me. First, if the power goes off for a week in mid winter, What are you going to do? It takes electricity to run those pumps that get the heat into the house. If y'all are like many folk, they use electricity to cook with. I know do. BUT no electricity, no use of the electric stove, microwave, coffee maker and so on.
> 
> You'll never hear me complain about those hot spots you mentioned or getting up in the morning to add toothpicks to the fire to get the house where it might be considered warm because chances are, I'm up in the middle of the night anyway. I might be composing email or reading here on AS.
> 
> ...



So do you catch enough rain water indoors to last and use gravity pressure for your showers? Do you update Arboristsite from a solar powered device?
I'd be screwed here at my house for getting water without electricity, I'd have to cut a hole in the pond and bucket in water, heat it on the wood stove then have my girlfriend pour it over me to do a shower.


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## zogger (Feb 4, 2013)

XSKIER said:


> So do you catch enough rain water indoors to last and use gravity pressure for your showers? Do you update Arboristsite from a solar powered device?
> I'd be screwed here at my house for getting water without electricity, I'd have to cut a hole in the pond and bucket in water, heat it on the wood stove then have my girlfriend pour it over me to do a shower.



I could do my laptop, cellphone and wireless internet easy from our little modest solar rig. Its what I used before. Plus a light or two, etc. Modest, two panels, charge controller, some golf cart batts, it is hooked to the RV now but we used that for a long time when we lived in it. We also have what is called a bore bucket for the well should that be necessary in any super long term power outage. Food stores, garden, blah blah. I could also keep the battery saw charged and only need bar oil then.


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## brenndatomu (Feb 4, 2013)

tld400 said:


> AIM said:
> 
> 
> > If I want my house at 70 I would put it at 70. How the heck can anyone mess that up. The problem is not the t-stat its how the heating system works. If there is a different way to put t-stat at 70 please enlighten me because I will pass info down to grandparents who still have forced air and hate it too because it kicks on and off, hot and cold. Not trying to pick a fight just saying this was my past exper. with it. Woodstoves and baseboard heat keep house at a much warm steady heatin my opinion.
> ...


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## ijon (Feb 5, 2013)

I owned my Woodmaster for twelve years. Its older than than that, it was built in 1994. I bought it as a demo. It heats my hot water, my house and my garage. I'am wintering fourty Talapia in the garage also. Before the boiler I was always looking for a way to get off propane, because it was so expensive, problem solved.


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## jh35 (Feb 5, 2013)

I loaded the Heatmor at 5:15 am yesterday. I came home to this at 9pm last night. Mostly Ash but some pine in there as well. House is 1000 sq ft plus DHW and full basement. Wife, me and a 13 year old daughter that uses her share of hot water. I used 5 cord per year avg for a long time with the basement furnace. I will probably go though 7 cord this year but the house is more comfortable and no propane for the DHW while the owb is running.


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## Blazin (Feb 5, 2013)




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## Guswhit (Feb 5, 2013)

Blazin said:


>




What size is that Central Boiler, 6048?


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## Blazin (Feb 5, 2013)

Guswhit said:


> What size is that Central Boiler, 6048?



It's a 5648, the earlier model of the 6048. Same other than the extended side panel for piping (which I did to mine) and a few extra gallon of water.


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## Iska3 (Feb 5, 2013)

I agree with Kemper and the others. I might use 20% more with the OWB then I did when I burned indoors. Now I split everything once, cut everything longer and sleep all night. When I heated indoors, I drank more beer. I'd have a few extra beers before going to bed so I'd get up in the middle of the night to feed the stove. :msp_rolleyes:

If the electric goes out, I have the LP as a back-up "IF" it still works. (Never had it on in three years...) I live on a farm so if the power does go out for a long time, I'm not so worried about the heat as I am the water.. I could be going out to the outhouse but that's where I put my OWB. 

We heat with a indoor stove when we go deer hunting and it's ok for that place but looking it over, I'll never go back to an indoor stove. 

I heat the house, the shop, a craft room and the stock tank.. Maybe use 10 cords at the most. Most of my wood is kept in one big pile and I'll fill the trailer once a week and feed the stove from that. 

I see nothing wrong with an indoor stove if it works for you. For me, my labor time is cut by 3/4 from when I heated indoors. The best part is, all the wood that I passed up in the past.... I'm using that now and when the plate exchanger, I take long hot showers..

I spent a little extra with my set-up but it's paid for itself after three years.. 

+1



Kemper said:


> The nearest i can figure is that my OWB burns maybe 20% more than the wood furnace in the basement when it is cold. Also heating the domestic hot water, and getting 12 to 14 hour burn times.
> 
> I have burnt wood for years, the OWB is the best investment i have ever made, i would hate to go back to stacking wood then loading it up and throwing it through the basement window then restacking it again by the furnace, not to mention all the wood smoke and dirt in the house...
> 
> The heat is also controlled with an OWB, not one extreme to another, It's always nice and warm in the morning.


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## Marc (Feb 5, 2013)

jh35 said:


> I loaded the Heatmor at 5:15 am yesterday. I came home to this at 9pm last night. Mostly Ash but some pine in there as well. House is 1000 sq ft plus DHW and full basement. Wife, me and a 13 year old daughter that uses her share of hot water. I used 5 cord per year avg for a long time with the basement furnace. I will probably go though 7 cord this year but the house is more comfortable and no propane for the DHW while the owb is running.



That does sound like a lot to me, but then, everything is a tradeoff.

My father heats his 2000 sq ft raised ranch on 4 cords of hardwood/year with his VC Encore. Oil for hot water, though. I think he runs through a full tank of No. 2 oil/year for that with 2 people.


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## Guswhit (Feb 5, 2013)

Iska3 said:


> I agree with Kemper and the others. I might use 20% more with the OWB then I did when I burned indoors. Now I split everything once, cut everything longer and sleep all night. When I heated indoors, I drank more beer. I'd have a few extra beers before going to bed so I'd get up in the middle of the night to feed the stove. :msp_rolleyes:
> 
> If the electric goes out, I have the LP as a back-up "IF" it still works. (Never had it on in three years...) I live on a farm so if the power does go out for a long time, I'm not so worried about the heat as I am the water.. I could be going out to the outhouse but that's where I put my OWB.
> 
> ...




Showers and the hot water definately make the differance for me, 2 daughters and wife love their hot water. Stupidest thing I did when building the house was not planning for the OWB and did not put tubes in the basement or garage floors. I can still come home after plowing snow for 12-16 hours park the truck inside and it will be completely thawed and dried in the morning though! This winter has been very very mild, I don't think I have even burned 4 cord yet. Have not burned any L.P. since November of 2009 and my tank is still at 40%.


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## homeyd (Feb 5, 2013)

*owb*



AIM said:


> Well I've read many times here and quite honestly I've even made the comment about OWB's and wood. They take a LOT... Yes they do.
> But I've read time and time again about people tryin to make some dinky little half assed stove burn for a full day and then complainin about it.
> 
> Then they proclaim with all sorts of reasons that an OWB is just wasteful and nowhere near efficient enough.
> ...



calm down bro if they dont got iy bi now they must still be wackin on the kindling ..gotta stay warm some way lol


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## AIM (Feb 5, 2013)

I've been calm from the start. Once in a while though you just need to rant a bit.

While I'm thinking about it let's talk efficiency.

Which is more efficient.
OWB= cut bigger, split less, load less often, burn more pounds of wood..

Indoor stove= cut smaller, split more, load more often, burn fewer pounds of wood..

My point is that EFFICIENCY is not just about pounds of wood per year. What makes the diff if you spend the same amount of time processing your 6 cords to my 12.


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## AdamG (Feb 5, 2013)

Blazin said:


>



Holy crap. I've never had a load that big yet 
This isn't the biggest, but it's the only one I can find right now. It was about 2 weeks ago, high was roughly 8-10 degrees
View attachment 277589


~48hrs later:
View attachment 277590


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## Blazin (Feb 6, 2013)

AdamG said:


> Holy crap. I've never had a load that big yet
> This isn't the biggest, but it's the only one I can find right now. It was about 2 weeks ago, high was roughly 8-10 degrees




That was a -20° night a few years ago, not really a lot of wood either since the coal bed was up to the horizontal front split, one row of 2' up front and a 14hr burn


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## Marc (Feb 6, 2013)

AIM said:


> I've been calm from the start. Once in a while though you just need to rant a bit.
> 
> While I'm thinking about it let's talk efficiency.
> 
> ...



You have to be more specific. Efficiency can be defined many ways and used in many contexts.

It makes about as much sense as saying "let's talk heat."

OWBs (specifically the non EPA versions) achieve far less *combustion efficiency *than EPA stoves or indoor wood boilers (the newer, forced induction versions). But we could also talk about the appliance efficiency, i.e., how much heat produced by the appliance is used/usable and how much is wasted. Or go for overall efficiency and quantify how much potential heat from the fuel input is delievered as usable heat by the appliance. If you wanted to start edging toward pedantry, you could take into account the energy required to process the wood into usable size and quality, but then you have to take into account the methods used to process and dry and other factors (hand split, chansaw efficiency, starting size, wood species and volumetric energy density) and it becomes hard to make a like comparison.

If you want to talk about *effiicient use of one's time*, then specify that when you begin speaking and there will be less confusion. You still won't get very far though, since while it is easy to quantify combustion efficiency, efficient use of one's own time is highly subjective and personal. It all depends on what a person perceives he's getting from his use of time processing wood and the cost of that time spent instead of doing something else (usually called "opportunity cost"). For instance a personal might get much enjoyment out of spending the same time processing 6 cords to your 12. Perhaps the person sees added benefits in the exercise, the opporunity to be working outdoors, to be occupied doing something that isn't otherwise costing money, etc. ad naseum. It's all too subjective to argue about, IMHO, but if you like chasing your tail, I guess, by all means. I won't judge you


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## AIM (Feb 6, 2013)

Yep Marc you are correct. I guess I was mainly thinking about efficiency from a time spent standpoint.


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## AdamG (Feb 6, 2013)

Blazin said:


> That was a -20° night a few years ago, not really a lot of wood either since the coal bed was up to the horizontal front split, one row of 2' up front and a 14hr burn



Ah makes sense. I try to leave only a couple inches of ash at most build up on the bottom, the rest I push to the back. It just makes it so much easier to rake the coals out. All of my stuff is cut to 4ft, except the big logs- I cut those to whatever length I think I can handle 
The next several days it dropped to 4 degrees, I loaded just about the same and was cut to just over a 24hr burn. It's amazing what just a couple degrees and some wind will do. I'm still waiting for the negatives- Ever since I installed the damn thing I don't think we've had a a neg. night around here.


Marc said:


> It's all too subjective to argue about, IMHO, but if you like chasing your tail, I guess, by all means. I won't judge you


Like I said before- I love running the saw. The splitter- not so much. I think if I had to split all my stuff I would be a lot less enthusiastic about it. But to each their own- I personally know a handful of people who are the opposite of I.
I Know a guy that enjoys hand splitting so much- he will gather a huge pile of logs over a period of time leading up to his birthday- and then his birthday present to himself is swinging the axe for an entire day.


Adam


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## Blazin (Feb 6, 2013)

AdamG said:


> Ah makes sense. I try to leave only a couple inches of ash at most build up on the bottom, the rest I push to the back. It just makes it so much easier to rake the coals out. All of my stuff is cut to 4ft, except the big logs- I cut those to whatever length I think I can handle
> The next several days it dropped to 4 degrees, I loaded just about the same and was cut to just over a 24hr burn. It's amazing what just a couple degrees and some wind will do. I'm still waiting for the negatives- Ever since I installed the damn thing I don't think we've had a a neg. night around here.
> 
> Adam



I tried the 3'-4' wood the first year, but I found the more you keep the fire to the front, the less wood you need.....that and the wife don't like to handle big wood


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## Kevin in Ohio (Feb 6, 2013)

Blazin said:


> ..that and the wife don't like to handle big wood



You honestly believe that?


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## AdamG (Feb 6, 2013)

Blazin said:


> ...that and the wife don't like to handle big wood


First time I've ever heard that! 

That would definitely be something to consider whenever I find one-- cut it down to a more manageable size and get her to do it haha!


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## Blazin (Feb 6, 2013)

Kevin in Ohio said:


> You honestly believe that?





AdamG said:


> First time I've ever heard that!
> 
> That would definitely be something to consider whenever I find one-- cut it down to a more manageable size and get her to do it haha!



I was waitin for that.... :hmm3grin2orange:

Well honesty, It is easier to load with smaller chunks. I'm trying to not beat myself up like I used, I did get a bit frisky last weekend and shove a 20"dia round of maple thru the door Saturday morning ....... Only cause the splitter ran out of gas with one block left


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## Kevin in Ohio (Feb 6, 2013)

Blazin said:


> I was waitin for that.... :hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> Well honesty, It is easier to load with smaller chunks. I'm trying to not beat myself up like I used, I did get a bit frisky last weekend and shove a 20"dia round of maple thru the door Saturday morning ....... Only cause the splitter ran out of gas with one block left



I'm with you, I do the same thing. Dad and I use the wood so we never who is going to get what. We cut it all 24" and to easy handling size split wise. If it is a close tree and taking it directly into the furnace house I'll do the 4 ft stuff, basically by weight. 2 ft stuff just makes it a lot easier stacking wise as you know.

We have something else in common. I have a 5648 CB OWB too. It's the stainless version and going strong. Have you had to fix anything on yours? I had a damper warp out but they replaced for free. Some loose wiring cause my damper control to go crazy but dealer told me to check( loosen and retighten) and it fixed it. Other than that it's been trouble free and I love it. I haven't had to add any water in close to 10 years since install either. Only added chemicals once and it was borderline then.


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## Iska3 (Feb 6, 2013)

Yep! There is a lot of little tricks to learn when using an OWB. Like you, I cut my wood 18 to 20 inches. I rake all my coals to the front and load the wood up to the front. I'll use the larger rounds on the bottom and will what I can with splits. On the colder nights, I'll use the smaller dia. and longer rounds once I'm above the baffle in back. Once the logs start to burn above the baffle, the flame seems to circulate and burn the gasses along the top for a longer burn time. I also adjust my boiler temp to the changes in the outside temp. 



Blazin said:


> I tried the 3'-4' wood the first year, but I found the more you keep the fire to the front, the less wood you need.....that and the wife don't like to handle big wood


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## Guswhit (Feb 6, 2013)

AIM said:


> I've been calm from the start. Once in a while though you just need to rant a bit.
> 
> While I'm thinking about it let's talk efficiency.
> 
> ...



I agree with you to an extent. Years ago, I had a remarkable indoor add-on wood furnace(northern leader brand). This stove was wonderful for 10-12 hour burns but it required small splits to get it filled for those long burns, thus much more time spent processing. When I had this furnace I was single, no children and LOTS of free time. Things changed, priorities get changed, job requirements changed so my free time drastically dropped. When I moved, after getting married, we did not plan on heating with wood, but after a few years of paying those L.P. bills, I started up again with a C.B. I cna process wood for this boiler ALOT faster than I could for the add-on since I do not spend as much time splitting and cutting smaller pieces. Did I keep track years ago, no. But I do know that I spent more time before scrounging wood up than I do now, plus I work more and have time for the wife and all of the childrens functions. As I follow this thread, I happen to be working on my taxes, I cut and split approximately 20 cord of wood this year and I burned $106.50 in splitter gas and chainsaw gas. I don't keep track of Truck fuel, as I write off mileage. I should keep track of time spent as well, maybe I will for this year. Any way, getting back, I believe the outdoor boiler is better for my application.



Blazin said:


> .....that and the wife don't like to handle big wood





Blazin said:


> I was waitin for that.... :hmm3grin2orange



My wife prefers the big wood, but she says "you still have to know what to do with it"


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## jh35 (Feb 6, 2013)

Guswhit said:


> .............
> 
> 
> 
> ...



My wife probably would prefer it, but I am unfamiliar with that adjective....


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## Blazin (Feb 6, 2013)

Kevin in Ohio said:


> I'm with you, I do the same thing. Dad and I use the wood so we never who is going to get what. We cut it all 24" and to easy handling size split wise. If it is a close tree and taking it directly into the furnace house I'll do the 4 ft stuff, basically by weight. 2 ft stuff just makes it a lot easier stacking wise as you know.
> 
> We have something else in common. I have a 5648 CB OWB too. It's the stainless version and going strong. Have you had to fix anything on yours? I had a damper warp out but they replaced for free. Some loose wiring cause my damper control to go crazy but dealer told me to check( loosen and retighten) and it fixed it. Other than that it's been trouble free and I love it. I haven't had to add any water in close to 10 years since install either. Only added chemicals once and it was borderline then.



I'm on year 7. I've only replaced one damper solenoid, and one pump which was in the last year. I have done the water treatment twice, only because I hooked another run in a few years after I got it. I haven't had to add water either, pretty amazing being an open system, you'd think there'd be evaporation at some point. I got what I expected when I bought it, a simple well built stove that works how it should  




Guswhit said:


> My wife prefers the big wood, but she says "you still have to know what to do with it"



If'n it don't fit don't force it! :msp_w00t:


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