# crotch logs and big knots



## chuckwood (Feb 5, 2010)

We had the woods selectively logged for oak a little a while back, they took the best straight stuff and left the big top sections that had the crotches and limbs, etc. I'm a novice chainsaw miller and I'm cutting rough stuff to be used for shed and barn siding. How are these gonna mill out, will the crotch boards just fall apart if I don't mill 'em in the right position? I've already had problems with a few "crotch" boards I've already milled, big chunks just falling out of my boards where the grain just didn't work out right. I've included a few photos of some typical logs I have available on the ground now.


----------



## huskyhank (Feb 5, 2010)

Now you know why they left them.

Not to say that you can't get something useful out of them, but nice long, straight lumber isn't going to be what you can make from these. I'd try to cut them in half to get a look at the insides. If it looks promising then saw some planks from the two halves. If it looks bad, you have firewood. The cut on the first log you show should produce a "Y" shaped piece. The green mossy streak is the top and where you'd lay your guide board. Make the first cut right through the pith. You ought to get something out of it.


----------



## discounthunter (Feb 6, 2010)

structural lumber needs to be straight and pretty much knot free.

crotch and knots would be better suited for wood projects.


----------



## chuckwood (Feb 6, 2010)

discounthunter said:


> structural lumber needs to be straight and pretty much knot free. crotch and knots would be better suited for wood projects.



I guess my proposed uses are semi-structural, I just want the stuff to hold together well enough to perform as rough shed siding. I'm curious if there's an optimal position to mill oak crotch logs like this so that the lumber doesn't just
fall apart. Slice parallel to the crotch or perpendicular? I make cants out of all my logs before milling. I've got more standing trees available, but I'd prefer to use what's already on the ground. I've got more firewood than I can manage, and that's for two households with wood burning stoves. Someday I may tire of this, but so far I enjoy milling, and I look for excuses to do it. I'm still getting that great feeling every time I slice off another board. I wonder how long that's gonna last?


----------



## ROOTSXROCKS (Feb 6, 2010)

I think there is potential for some pretty stuff from Crouches Bowls and carvings especially But also for those boards that will catch the rays in quarter saw profile. there will bee some movement but worth working with for really special projects Those Crouches could match up nicely grain wise alternating the direction of the wood with the two center boards and there next pairs.


----------



## Mike Van (Feb 7, 2010)

Unless you have some special project like a slab table top or some bowls to turn, that oak is all firewood. Waste of time & money to try to mill it. You must have some pine or other softwood there?


----------



## Sawyer Rob (Feb 7, 2010)

If i had them, i'd probably mill them, but NOT for sideing boards... I'd mill them, looking for something odd or special for smaller projects.

Rob


----------



## chuckwood (Feb 11, 2010)

Mike Van said:


> Unless you have some special project like a slab table top or some bowls to turn, that oak is all firewood. Waste of time & money to try to mill it. You must have some pine or other softwood there?



Y'all have probably talked me out of trying to mill the stuff, I might try just one just to see what happens. I've still got very large standing oaks available to take down if I wish, but not too many smaller ones. After reading about all the things that can go wrong when a non professional takes down large trees, and watching them do it on you tube, I'm getting a bit scared. Plus, I'm gettin' old. Not too old to mill, but too old and too wise to take chances like I did when I was young, go figure. I've felled quite a few trees in the past, and I've had a few barber chairs and I've had rotten limbs rain down on me. Sooner or later my number's gonna come up. I guess no point in taking chances when Craig's list is full of free trees already down on the ground and ready for the taking. I guess I'm gonna look around some more....


----------



## ROOTSXROCKS (Feb 11, 2010)

Gee Id still take a nice 3-4 inch slab or two out of the center if for nothing more than experience.


----------



## huskyhank (Feb 11, 2010)

ROOTSXROCKS said:


> Gee Id still take a nice 3-4 inch slab or two out of the center if for nothing more than experience.



Yes, a little practice and maybe a nice board!!


----------



## billstuewe (Feb 11, 2010)

Mill up somenice crouch slabs and sell them for table tops and use the money to by some siding--


----------



## chuckwood (Feb 11, 2010)

*table tops*



billstuewe said:


> Mill up somenice crouch slabs and sell them for table tops and use the money to by some siding--



That silver maple is really nice, now I'm getting some ideas, if I can get the time. My Alaskan is a 36" and my longest bar is a 42" - would that be enough to make a nice table slab? How does one market table slabs? Flea markets? Craig's list?


----------



## billstuewe (Feb 12, 2010)

You can cut some pretty nice sized logs with a 32" AK and your 42" bar. label the flitches as they come off so you can bookmatch them and almost double the width of the table and get the type of grain look as in the silvermaple. As for marketing them???????--use your imagination--try everything you can think of and see what works in your area. A local friend of mine specializes in mesquite and sell them off his website--check it out: 
http://www.mesquiteburl.com/bookmatch.aspx
For large flitches, I would cut them somewhere around 8/4--12/4 thick as this type of grain can warp a lot and, when dry, you will need the extra thickness to be able to plane/sand off ½" or more and still end up with a usable thickness . Use lots of stickers, a minimum of 16"o.c. and air dry 2-3 years. Also, it those logs have been on the ground a while you may have some rot spots and associated spalting. The spalting can add a lot the character:


----------



## rarefish383 (Feb 14, 2010)

I'd mill some of the big crotches for the patterns in them and the practice. Are there any 8 or 10 foot round sections in the less than a foot diamater range that you might get a board or 2 out of? Most of the logging I've seen they stop at the first limb. I usally target the straight top pieces for prime, easy to split firewood. The knots and crotches are too hard to split so I leave them for last. I just got started milling too, or I would have milled the bigger ugly stuff too, Joe.


----------



## stipes (Feb 15, 2010)

*If your into woodworking...*



chuckwood said:


> We had the woods selectively logged for oak a little a while back, they took the best straight stuff and left the big top sections that had the crotches and limbs, etc. I'm a novice chainsaw miller and I'm cutting rough stuff to be used for shed and barn siding. How are these gonna mill out, will the crotch boards just fall apart if I don't mill 'em in the right position? I've already had problems with a few "crotch" boards I've already milled, big chunks just falling out of my boards where the grain just didn't work out right. I've included a few photos of some typical logs I have available on the ground now.



I'd mill it just for some small projects... Just me and hate to see anything go to waste...


----------



## chuckwood (Feb 16, 2010)

rarefish383 said:


> I'd mill some of the big crotches for the patterns in them and the practice. Are there any 8 or 10 foot round sections in the less than a foot diamater range that you might get a board or 2 out of? Most of the logging I've seen they stop at the first limb. I usally target the straight top pieces for prime, easy to split firewood. The knots and crotches are too hard to split so I leave them for last. I just got started milling too, or I would have milled the bigger ugly stuff too, Joe.



Previous posts have inspired me to go ahead and mill some of these for possible use as tables, etc. I've got a number of big, spread out maple trees available to cut down, and I'm tempted to try one of them sometime. These trees have short, very thick straight sections and then three or four way crotches that branch out everywhere and should have very interesting grain patterns when slabbed up at the crotch. But I've become fearful of felling trees with huge crowns, I've had a few scary moments in years past with these things, they can bounce back at you and do all sorts of crazy things when they hit the ground. If I'm not mistaken, most of the pros climb and cut the branches off before taking down the main trunk...


----------



## BC WetCoast (Feb 16, 2010)

chuckwood said:


> . If I'm not mistaken, most of the pros climb and cut the branches off before taking down the main trunk...



Depends on the tree. If there is room, then it is always easier/faster to just fall it. If there is no room to fall, then the tree will be pieced down. Sometimes you have to pull the tree over with a rope/cable/manpower/winch/truck. 

If you have had problems with barberchairs in the past, you may be better to hire a pro to fall the tree for you. Either your technique is off or you are reading the stresses in the tree incorrectly. And we don't want to see you injured or killed.


----------



## Andrew96 (Feb 16, 2010)

chuckwood said:


> If I'm not mistaken, most of the pros......



Chuckwood...I'd stop right there. A mistake here is not to be taken lightly. I'm a suck...wus...whatever you want to call me. I like trees though. As soon as something I'm going to mill up (which is the goal for me) looks strange...or makes me think twice...I call in a pro. Ya...I might not ever learn anything...but the once every other year that I need one...I can watch...maybe learn..maybe 'grow a couple'...but I get to mill up the tree anyway...stress free. It always looks too easy when someone else is doing it...don't be fooled by the strange ones. I'd suggest getting a quote. Good guys don't cost much when all you want is it laying on the ground and no one hurt. Your paying for experience so don't think the quote will be 'by the hour'. Save yourself some stress and keep all the fun part of the project to yourself. Call a guy who knows... Maybe I'm the only wus around here...but it works for me.


----------



## Andrew96 (Feb 17, 2010)

OK..I guess I am the only one.


----------



## chuckwood (Feb 17, 2010)

*not quite the only one*



Andrew96 said:


> OK..I guess I am the only one.



Nope, I'm taking your advice seriously. I must admit, when I was younger I got a thrill sometimes out of taking chances, the thundering whomp when I took a big one down was very satisfying for a young man wanting to be macho. I didn't know enough about logging to understand the dangers of what I was doing until I had a few near misses. The scariest is the barber chair, this can happen even if you're doing everything right, especially on a tree that's leaning a lot. I've been thinking about this lately and wondering if I can increase my chances of survival by wrapping the trunk every 4 feet or so with logging chain or heavy nylon strapping (the kind they use for tying down loads on 18 wheelers - I've got a bunch of that). A friend of mine knows someone who is paralyzed because a limb came down on the guy while he was tree felling. This friend is a farmer who is now so spooked he does something even I think is way out - he's got a big 100 horse tractor that he brings up to the tree with the loader bucket up in the air. He cuts under the loader bucket, hoping it will serve as a sort of umbrella that's gonna keep him safe from flying dead limbs. I've never heard of anyone else doing this. I think that brings up other issues like not being able to look up and see what your tree is doing.


----------



## Sawyer Rob (Feb 17, 2010)

chuckwood said:


> Nope, I'm taking your advice seriously. I must admit, when I was younger I got a thrill sometimes out of taking chances, the thundering whomp when I took a big one down was very satisfying for a young man wanting to be macho. I didn't know enough about logging to understand the dangers of what I was doing until I had a few near misses. The scariest is the barber chair, this can happen even if you're doing everything right, especially on a tree that's leaning a lot. I've been thinking about this lately and wondering if I can increase my chances of survival by wrapping the trunk every 4 feet or so with logging chain or heavy nylon strapping (the kind they use for tying down loads on 18 wheelers - I've got a bunch of that). A friend of mine knows someone who is paralyzed because a limb came down on the guy while he was tree felling. This friend is a farmer who is now so spooked he does something even I think is way out - he's got a big 100 horse tractor that he brings up to the tree with the loader bucket up in the air. He cuts under the loader bucket, hoping it will serve as a sort of umbrella that's gonna keep him safe from flying dead limbs. I've never heard of anyone else doing this. I think that brings up other issues like not being able to look up and see what your tree is doing.



I wonder if he relaizes how many farmers are "killed" by hoses, cylinders and valves failing on loaders, dropping the buckets on them!!

He's went from the pan, into the fire with his thinking!

Rob


----------



## Andrew96 (Feb 18, 2010)

chuckwood said:


> Nope, I'm taking your advice seriously.



Well alright. I thought maybe you felt I was being the safety police. One farmer I know who gives me trees...pushes them over with an excavator as he is so scared. He won't even let me fell any for him...even though many look easy and I'd do them. There is always someone around that has more experience in that field. Just because you can remove a splinter....doesn't mean you should step up to a spline. Some nasty trees are that much of a step for my abilities. 
In my own little world (dropped at most 20 trees)...I've got ugly trees dropped for me for the cost of a nice board or two....or if it's a cash deal...I try to sell what I need from that tree to cover the feller. I really try to cut up windfalls but they come with their own set of problems.


----------



## gemniii (Feb 18, 2010)

BC WetCoast said:


> Depends on the tree. If there is room, then it is always easier/faster to just fall it. If there is no room to fall, then the tree will be pieced down. Sometimes you have to pull the tree over with a rope/cable/manpower/winch/truck.
> 
> If you have had problems with barberchairs in the past, you may be better to hire a pro to fall the tree for you. Either your technique is off or you are reading the stresses in the tree incorrectly. And we don't want to see you injured or killed.



I'll second that.

I had to piece this one down because of a house and a fence. It's now split into firewood, sawdust and lumber.

You also have to be comfortable with heights.







Often on limbs less than about 8" I'd much rather use a bucksaw.

And I agree - you need to "read the tree". It's a lot easier in the winter w/o leaves.


----------

