# I've Been Screwed!!!



## blsnelling (Dec 6, 2006)

*I've Been Screwed!!! MS 440 Rebuild*

OUCH! I bought this MS 440 of eBay and got it today. LINK All it was supposed to need was a coil and a starter rope, per a dealer's inspection. It's also only supposed to be two years old. Check out what I got.

I put a different coil in it, fixed the starter and tried to start it. It tried to fire but would not start. The enging was very noisy when I pulled the starter rope. I finally removed the muffler and found that the piston is extremely scored. I then removed the cylinder to find that it is ruined as well as the crank. There are deep gouges in the cylinder wall. The connecting rod bearing cage on the crank is all busted up. This is what was causing all the noise. This saw is toast. You can see that the saw has been apart before. The cylinder has been honed and the piston sanded. You can also see pieces of old rings embedded in the cylinder head and piston top. These did not come from the piston in the saw. It's rings are not broken.

I sent an email and offered to reassemble and return the saw as is or discuss replacing the crank, cylinder/piston, and gaskets. I even sent links of the best deals on a used crank and cylinder/piston. I haven't heard back since I just sent it. What's your take on this?

You can find all the high resolution pictures HERE


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## cuttinscott (Dec 6, 2006)

those pieces embedded in the top of the piston are needle bearings from the conn rod failure

Scott


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## oldsaw (Dec 6, 2006)

hosejob.

You done been had, IMHO, of course.

Wow, sharp eye, Scott. You would be right.

Mark


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## Trigger-Time (Dec 6, 2006)

All I can say is, Yes you have!
And all the luck to you in the world.


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## blsnelling (Dec 6, 2006)

It's amazing this thing didn't explode. The crank side bearings still seem to be good. Will an 044 crank drop right in?


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## begleytree (Dec 6, 2006)

email ebay dispute resolution tonight! any time on it and he can say you ran it without mix or someother BS.
-Ralph


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## Just Mow (Dec 6, 2006)

psssssssssst,
you got screwed 

Reason number 204I on why not to buy a chainsaw on line.


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## outdoortype (Dec 6, 2006)

*You're correct*

I am by no means an expert. But I didn't think it would be possible to gouge a cylinder as deep as shown in pick #4. Or see a piston as beat up as in pick #1. Did the seller offer a return/refund policy? I bought a used 025 from Ebay that was supposed to be in real good shape. I would hate to see their definition of poor shape. Good luck and I hope you get compensated.


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## SmokinDodge (Dec 6, 2006)

Nail them to the wall. Politely.


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## 04ultra (Dec 6, 2006)

Everything I went through to get you the service manual and IPL... I feel like I'm part of this project now...Bring me my hammer .. 


Anything I can do to help you got my email.. 





.


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## Four Paws (Dec 6, 2006)

Too bad about your bad luck, but I think he has your money. The seller's description was very well written to free him of any obligation to the grenaded saw (which I would bet a cold one he knew about). His bases were covered on that listing...best of luck, but I would say you should chalk it up as an expensive lesson. Look on the bright side, that goofy "incredi-pull" handle is worth a cool $35 bones. Now, you are only out $230. Start parting it out...you'll make your money back!

Josh


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## blsnelling (Dec 6, 2006)

04ultra said:


> Everything I went through to get you the service manual and IPL... I feel like I'm part of this project now...Bring me my hammer ..
> 
> Anything I can do to help you got my email.


Man, you've gone above and beyond to provide me with the documentation I need. 

One month ago, I owned one saw. The 039 I bought 12-13 years ago. Then I found this forum trying to fix my bro-in-laws old 041 FB. Now look at me. I sold the 039 and bought a 360 pro. I bought a 026 Pro that had been rebuilt. I then decided to start fixing others up for fun and bought this 440, a really bad older 026, and now a 260 Artic project saw. I'm not sure about this new hobby that was supposed to make me a few bucks to pay for my saws.

I emailed the guy and also filed a complaint with PayPal. The complaint also contains the same text as in the email. I would normally give more time for the seller to respond, but I think prompt action is called for in a case this extreme. PayPal even has the link to the pictures. I don't see how he can not loose this. I had a buyer report that they never received a $300 item I shipped them. I did not have a tracking# to prove that I did. PayPal took the money from my account and gave it back to the buyer. It was totally out of my control. I thought I had learned all my lessons with buying online. I guess it's just risks you take.


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## blsnelling (Dec 6, 2006)

Four Paws said:


> you are only out $230. Start parting it out...you'll make your money back!Josh


With shipping, I'm out $284. Assuming I'm stuck, should I part it out, or find a good crank and put a BB kit on it for $99 from Baileys:hmm3grin2orange: I'm still confused why I'm not fuming mad. Maybe it's all this "group therapy" we have going on here

I was planning on fixing her up, giving her a good cleaning and selling it again. I'd even bought a 24" Stihl ES bar for it! If I fix it up, it will be pristine and be "right" when I'm done. I don't do things half way. Learned that from my Dad years ago. What would a super clean 440 Big Bore bring?

Got any leads on a good 440 crank? Is a 044 crank with a 12mm piston pin the same?


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## Lakeside53 (Dec 6, 2006)

This one is likely to end badly... Unless you can prove he mispresented the saw, you're likely to eat this one... His description gives him every out.

Definitely go though dispute resolution, but.. You will at least get his phone number etc and call him. Ask for the dealer name... They'll remember him...


You'll need more than a crank - you'll need bearings too, and they aren't cheap.


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## 04ultra (Dec 6, 2006)

blsnelling said:


> With shipping, I'm out $284. Assuming I'm stuck, should I part it out, or find a good crank and put a BB kit on it for $99 from Baileys:hmm3grin2orange: I'm still confused why I'm not fuming mad. Maybe it's all this "group therapy" we have going on here
> 
> I was planning on fixing her up, giving her a good cleaning and selling it again. I'd even bought a 24" Stihl ES bar for it! If I fix it up, it will be pristine and be "right" when I'm done. I don't do things half way. Learned that from my Dad years ago. What would a super clean 440 Big Bore bring?
> 
> Got any leads on a good 440 crank? Is a 044 crank with a 12mm piston pin the same?




Talk to Freak he might have a parts saw.. not sure.. 


..


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## blsnelling (Dec 6, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> This one is likely to end badly... Unless you can prove he mispresented the saw, you're likely to eat this one... His description gives him every out.
> 
> Definitely go though dispute resolution, but.. You will at least get his phone number etc and call him. Ask for the dealer name... They'll remember him...
> 
> ...


I think the solution would be a case with a good crank already in it. CheapStihlParts has one for $100 right now.

I got the guys initial response. 

_"I bought the saw used and CLEARLY stated in the ad that the saw had 100% 
NO GUARNTEE, I am not a mechanic and can only take the word of the saw 
shop I have here. I am happy to work with you, but as the AD STATED NO 
GURANTEE at all. I had a $99 starting price and no reserve, that is 
why, I had no gurantee that the saw was any good, everyone knew that who 
bidded, including you."_

I replied:
_So how do you want to handle this? We're talking about $230 to put the saw in the condition it was advertised in. I'm not implying you did this intentionally. However, now that the facts are known, it's not as described in the auction. Do you want the saw back or do you want to refund me for the parts?_

So how much of this saga do you guys want to follow? It's liable to get interesting.


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## computeruser (Dec 6, 2006)

If you decide to part it out I might be in the market for a fair number of major parts.


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## Tree Sling'r (Dec 6, 2006)

outdoortype said:


> I am by no means an expert. But I didn't think it would be possible to gouge a cylinder as deep as shown in pick #4. Or see a piston as beat up as in pick #1. Did the seller offer a return/refund policy? I bought a used 025 from Ebay that was supposed to be in real good shape. I would hate to see their definition of poor shape. Good luck and I hope you get compensated.



I didn't either until I started modding my own saws.


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## SmokinDodge (Dec 6, 2006)

blsnelling said:


> So how much of this saga do you guys want to follow? It's liable to get interesting.



Don't need the blow by blow, just the highlights.


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## blsnelling (Dec 6, 2006)

My better judgement is telling me that I don't have a saw to repair here. I mean, no crank, no cylinder, and no piston. This is truely a parts saw if there ever was one. Lets see what I have here.
1. Top engine cover
2. Filter cover - newer
3. Bar/clutch cover
4. Carb
5. New HD air filter
6. New rim sproket
7. Clutch
8. Oil pump
9. Good tank
10. Starter has too much wear to sell
11. Top handle
12. Muffler

I don't think this will even come close to recouping my money. Which leads me back to getting a new case/crank for $100 and a BB kit for $100. I'd then have about $550 in it with the coil and new 24" ES bar I already bought for it. I'd enjoy the process and likely get good money for it when I was done.


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## Buckeye (Dec 6, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> This one is likely to end badly... Unless you can prove he mispresented the saw, you're likely to eat this one... His description gives him every out.
> 
> Definitely go though dispute resolution, but.. You will at least get his phone number etc and call him. Ask for the dealer name... They'll remember him...



I'd bet a dollar that PayPal will make this right. It's a lopsided system, IMO - They collect their fees from the seller, but PayPal virtually always rules in favor of the buyer when there is a dispute. In this case the buyer deserves a refund, but I've seen cases where the buyer had no legitamate claim and still got a full refund, including shipping. Most of the time they don't even require the buyer to return the item to the seller.

The phrases 'as-is, where is', 'no warranty/no return', 'all sales are final', etc mean NOTHING unless an item is listed as being sold for parts only.

Good luck!


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## Four Paws (Dec 6, 2006)

blsnelling said:


> With shipping, I'm out $284. Assuming I'm stuck, should I part it out, or find a good crank and put a BB kit on it for $99 from Baileys?



Well, for $120 more you could have had this 440

Give it back to the guy for a refund less shipping, or part it. Not worth fixing if you ask me!


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## ol'homey (Dec 6, 2006)

I'd ask what Stihl shop he took it to. I bet he won't give you the name of the shop because he didn't take it to anybody. If you do get a name ask them what's the deal with the saw and why didn't the seller let them fix it if all it needed was a coil and rope. I bet the coil is good. How would they check for spark without a working recoil on the saw? If they did turn the saw over to check for spark why didn't they notice the lack of compression and bearing noise and pull the muffler? The seller knew the "bad coil" reason for not running would bring the highest price because it's the easiest fix. The new air filter implies the saw has been taken care of and is probably in good shape which again helps bring a higher price. I think the seller is very slick and knew exactly how to get top $ for a junk saw. He also knew how to protect himself with the "no warranty" and "as is" caveats. Unless you can show that he lied about taking the saw to the shop or about what the shop told him re. the condition of the saw, you may be out of luck as far as help from Ebay. Good luck and keep us posted.


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## ciscoguy01 (Dec 6, 2006)

*Muffler*



blsnelling said:


> My better judgement is telling me that I don't have a saw to repair here. I mean, no crank, no cylinder, and no piston. This is truely a parts saw if there ever was one. Lets see what I have here.
> 1. Top engine cover
> 2. Filter cover - newer
> 3. Bar/clutch cover
> ...



I'll give ya $10 for the muffler. That a good start to recouping??? :yoyo:


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## blsnelling (Dec 6, 2006)

Four Paws said:


> Well, for $120 more you could have had this 440


Now that's a deal! Someone better jump on that. I'm only looking for saws to fix up. I love tinkering and am only doing it for a hobby.


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## blsnelling (Dec 6, 2006)

I think there's a very good chance that PayPal will make it right. They are definately there for the buyer, not the seller. I've seen them work more than once. The seller is now getting emails from users on the forums I post to. I'm not sure that's helping my situation, but it sure is making for an interesting deal.


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## sawinredneck (Dec 6, 2006)

MAN!!!!!!!!!!!! That sucks!!! I am truely sorry!!!!!
Andy


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## blsnelling (Dec 7, 2006)

Normally, I am a vigilanty justice freak kind of guy. For some reason I've yet to get really mad about this. I'm simply dealing with it at face value. One side of me even wants to laugh. Have you ever seen a saw so totally destroyed? Look at that piston. Can you say scoring? Roller bearings from the big end of the rod embedded into the cylinder head and piston. I mean, come on. This thing must be a collectors item of some sort


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## Ekka (Dec 7, 2006)

Obviously advertising laws in the USA are non existant.

He wrote all that BS about no warranty etc coz he knew the saw was stuffed.

Mate, I got a corroded 44 in the shed, engine seem to OK just the chasis got eaten by palms, if your interested I can strip off some crap and send it over ... you pay the freight, I'm sure you'll build a working saw out of it. I dont want anything for the saw just you fix up the freight. I go thru a 44 a year but the palms eat away the alloy ... but the piston, pot, crank etc will all be fine.

Might take 2 weeks to get there that's all.

Let me know.


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## PES+ (Dec 7, 2006)

*Needle bearing rollers are HARD*

Believe it or not all of that damage is from one needle roller bouncing around the cylinder after the big end bearing cage let go.....

Someone knew this had happened because the saw was run without an air cleaner hence the new air cleaner. The guy scammed you pure and simple


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## tek9tim (Dec 7, 2006)

Four Paws said:


> Well, for $120 more you could have had this 440



Not sure how much of a 440 that is... looks like _at least_ the flywheel side half of the case is 044, judging by the threaded bar oil cap. It does have the newer plastic and tank on it though.

Oh yeah, and Edit to add: You did get hosed on that deal. I'm sure he knew what was up. Having the pull cord being busted is a great way to keep the potential local buyers from yarding on it and finding out the truth...


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## blsnelling (Dec 7, 2006)

Ekka said:


> Obviously advertising laws in the USA are non existant.
> 
> He wrote all that BS about no warranty etc coz he knew the saw was stuffed.
> 
> ...


Now you guys are really trying to real me into the saw thing. How can you not hang out with guys of this caliber? I really appreciate all the feedback I'm getting here. That's probably why I'm not going crazy mad at this point.

I'm definately interested in taking you up on your offer, Ekka. That's truely respectable of you. Your saw sounds like the perfect candidate. Bad case with good internals. I'm definately up to doing the work. That's why I even bought this saw. I enjoy it. Let me see what happens with the PayPal dispute and I'll get back to you. So far we have both replied several times to the dispute and he's not backing up at all yet.


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## PES+ (Dec 7, 2006)

*Palms??*

Corrosion?

I bet the crocks ate the magnesium off it:hmm3grin2orange:


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## Four Paws (Dec 7, 2006)

26 of us just waiting for someone to respond...


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## Ekka (Dec 7, 2006)

I'll go down and have a sticky beak what I got and maybe post a pic.

I have a few in the grave yard box. I just gave away a deceased Echo 350T coz some-one needed the chain break handle/cover (they fall of and you lose them).


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## 04ultra (Dec 7, 2006)

EKKA you have some pictures..






.


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## SmokinDodge (Dec 7, 2006)

Four Paws said:


> 26 of us just waiting for someone to respond...


 27 but who's counting? :greenchainsaw: 



That's a great offer from the kind Ekka but don't let the slug slide on this deal. He knew previously what was up with the saw.


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## 04ultra (Dec 7, 2006)

Ekka said:


> I'll go down and have a sticky beak .







WTH is this????????:hmm3grin2orange: Man Eric were gona hafta Learn you English... 



.


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## chowdozer (Dec 7, 2006)

He's said he's used it "quite a bit" for personal firewood cutting. I think you could get him on that. If he was using that saw "quite a bit", either he knew what happened or his shop told him it would cost more to fix than it's worth. Looks like somebody threw a few parts at it to get it together before they peddled it. 

Someone else mentioned asking about the Stihl dealer that looked at it and I think that's a good idea too. 
Put the screws to him. :greenchainsaw:


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## ol'homey (Dec 7, 2006)

One more idea. The saw looks like it's more than 2 years old. Use the serial number to find out when it was made and if possible when it was sold. If it's more than 2 years old then the saw is "NOT as described" case closed. Ebay/Paypal will have to refund your $. My experience with Ebay is that the burden of proof is on the buyer not the seller. They are not going to refund your $ without a fight. I charge all Ebay purchases through paypal to a credit card. If you're not satisfied, you ship it back. Then mail proof the seller has received his product back along with the dispute paperwork to your credit card co. and they will do a charge back and get your $ back. Ebay/paypal hates chargebacks and will do everything they can to get you to not use your credit card to fund purchases. Ebay/paypal are paid by and work for the seller, your credit card co. works for you and is your only real protection from fraud. If you funded this purchase through your bank acct. you are probably screwed unless you can show some really good proof that the seller misrepresented the item.


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## 5555555 (Dec 7, 2006)

i don't think it is the same thing there as it would be here....


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## tek9tim (Dec 7, 2006)

ol'homey said:


> One more idea. The saw looks like it's more than 2 years old. Use the serial number to find out when it was made and if possible when it was sold. If it's more than 2 years old then the saw is "NOT as described" case closed. Ebay/Paypal will have to refund your $. My experience with Ebay is that the burden of proof is on the buyer not the seller. They are not going to refund your $ without a fight. I charge all Ebay purchases through paypal to a credit card. If you're not satisfied, you ship it back. Then mail proof the seller has received his product back along with the dispute paperwork to your credit card co. and they will do a charge back and get your $ back. Ebay/paypal hates chargebacks and will do everything they can to get you to not use your credit card to fund purchases. Ebay/paypal are paid by and work for the seller, your credit card co. works for you and is your only real protection from fraud. If you funded this purchase through your bank acct. you are probably screwed unless you can show some really good proof that the seller misrepresented the item.




That's a good point. I've run some 440s that I know were purchased in mid 2003, and they had the compression release and different reinforcement on the rear handle. I have also run some 440s that were purchased in (I believe) '01 that were just like that one, with no compression release. That's not to say that the saw didn't sit in the shop for a couple years before it sold.


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## Sprig (Dec 7, 2006)

sawinredneck said:


> MAN!!!!!!!!!!!! That sucks!!! I am truely sorry!!!!!
> Andy


Yup, total agreement about an obviously total jerk! If ya have to bite this make sure his rep suffers, its the least you can do imo and I think can be done subtley and in good taste without you seemingly eatin' sour grapes. Justice may sometimes be blind but most people aren't. Be nice if some of the good folks around here could help you put the poor ol' beast right and I'm sure they will help you within their capacities. I really hate 'used car' salesman's tactics man, I hope his 'roids burst after a nice spicey meal, gah! Me want to rant fer you, but keep a level head mate and, as someone said up there^^ don't need the gory details but a post on the outcome would be interesting. A harsh needless lesson.  
Edit> Awesome offer there Ekka!


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## aquan8tor (Dec 7, 2006)

The seller did say however he took the saw to a stihl shop. They are professionals. "the stihl shop" to me, implies stihl certified technicians. Otherwise, how could you call it a stihl shop?? By saying that they looked at it and said it needed a magneato (misspelled--I'm leaving it as described), and a pull cord....

If they knew it had no spark, they must have turned the saw over, yes?? Is that not how one checks spark?? they would have to have known it was damaged. Seems like there must be a provision for this from ebay.


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## 5555555 (Dec 7, 2006)

There's probably only one or two Stihl dealers in Helena. No stihl dealer tole him that it only needed a pull handle and magneto. Tell him if he gives you the name of the stihl dealer and they verify that's what they told him that you'll let it go. Make sure you use the Stihl dealer finder to get the phone number. If they saw that saw, they'll remembeit and if he tryly did buy a new on, they'll remember the seller.

Jim


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## M.R. (Dec 7, 2006)

Just took a quick gander through this gomer's feed back, on the surface the percentages look a-okay -
Reading the negatives and neutrals, sorta leaves ones mouth with a bad taste.
Seeing where he is buying parts for radio controlled cars, can sure lead one
to believe he Most Likely knew Exactly what he was selling in the Faults in
the saw you recieced.  :angry2: 

Best of luck:


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## blsnelling (Dec 7, 2006)

I was writing a reply to the sellers last comment and couldn't post it. The seller had escalated the dispute to a claim so that I could no longer give input to the dispute. I did ask him in a private email who the dealer was. He's no longer responding to my emails.

Ekka, I think I need those parts. I need a crank with bearings for a 12mm piston pin, cylinder, piston, and a starter if you've got one. If you don't have anything but a good crank with bearings, that would be a great start. Any idea what shipping would be from AU? I'll send you a PM.


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## 04ultra (Dec 7, 2006)

http://www.stihldealer.net/locator/results.aspx?state=MT&city=Helena &dlrtype=1


There are two dealers in that area.. 






.


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## aquan8tor (Dec 7, 2006)

I would get on the stihlusa website and do a dealer locator search. I'd think they would be eager to help you on this. He has committed fraud, no matter what the ebay fine print says. Call all the dealers in the helena area and ask them about it. I would think that any honest dealer would tell you. At least, I would hope so.


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## aquan8tor (Dec 7, 2006)

beaten to the draw. call both of them!!!


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## blsnelling (Dec 7, 2006)

Here's the serial# off the saw. He said it's only 2 years old. Then turns around and says he bought it used. I guarantee you it's more than 2 years old. It's probably stolen and used in a mass murder some where:greenchainsaw: 

*Serial# = X154509592*


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## ol'homey (Dec 7, 2006)

You just called his bluff as there is no dealer. He's not going to give you any more info that might be used against him. Did you fund this purchase with a credit card? If so, call them and get their dispute process going. If not, I wouldn't count on any help from Ebay/Paypal.


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## blsnelling (Dec 7, 2006)

Unfortunately, like a fool, it was funded from my bank account. I'll have to check and see if I have any protection there. I won't be able to post during the day tomorrow, but will be watching your feedback closely. Thanks again for all the input.


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## Ekka (Dec 7, 2006)

Here's a series of pics, big files as I kept quality up.


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## aquan8tor (Dec 7, 2006)

dont feel bad on the bank account thing. I had no idea about that. I'm going to change mine on the next paypal transaction!!!


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## Ekka (Dec 7, 2006)

some more


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## ol'homey (Dec 7, 2006)

You have zero protection through your bank acct. It's just like sending cash. Maybe you can prove either that the saw is over 2 yrs. old or that he did not take the saw to a Stihl dealer and therefore the saw was misrepresented. It's totally up to Ebay and as I said they work for the seller so I wouldn't get my hopes up. If you give him a neg feedback he'll just do the same for you so that might not be a good idea either. I would not give him feedback unless he gives you feedback first.


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## blsnelling (Dec 7, 2006)

That's amazing how the case is eaten away around the bar. At least I have a good case. Between the two, I think I could make a good saw. I've sent you a PM.

Anyone able to look up my serial#?


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## Ekka (Dec 7, 2006)

No worries, Just yell what else you need and I'll throw it in the box, I checked and I got 3 corroded 44's down there but that's the youngest and looking at the top of piston and rings etc it's reasonable. 

Maybe just buff the piston but that saw wasn't retired from engine failure rather oil pissing out everywhere and crankcase seals leaking.

I think for the few bucks of freight you'll get a working saw for bugger all. And it'll be a Palm Slayer hybrid ... those yankee trees will be shakin' lol


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## Buckeye (Dec 7, 2006)

ol'homey said:


> You have zero protection through your bank acct. It's just like sending cash. Maybe you can prove either that the saw is over 2 yrs. old or that he did not take the saw to a Stihl dealer and therefore the saw was misrepresented. It's totally up to Ebay and as I said they work for the seller so I wouldn't get my hopes up. If you give him a neg feedback he'll just do the same for you so that might not be a good idea either. I would not give him feedback unless he gives you feedback first.



eBay won't do jack for anyone. The dispute is being handled by PayPal. PayPal almost always leans in favor of the buyer, not the seller. It is easier for them to take funds out of the seller's account and refund to the buyer than it is for PayPal to deal with chargebacks through the CC companies. This is their defacto policy, regardless of whether you funded the purchase with your CC or bank account. With that said, using a CC gives the buyer one more 'layer' of protection if for some reason PayPal decides against him.


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## sawinredneck (Dec 7, 2006)

Ekka said:


> Obviously advertising laws in the USA are non existant.
> 
> He wrote all that BS about no warranty etc coz he knew the saw was stuffed.
> 
> ...



Very generous of you Eric


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## Lakeside53 (Dec 7, 2006)

blsnelling said:


> Here's the serial# off the saw. He said it's only 2 years old. Then turns around and says he bought it used. I guarantee you it's more than 2 years old. It's probably stolen and used in a mass murder some where:greenchainsaw:
> 
> *Serial# = X154509592*




It's from June 2002.. and an ex logging saw from Centralia Washington... I bet he bought it dead and resold it to you.


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## aquan8tor (Dec 7, 2006)

there's your proof.


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## manual (Dec 7, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> It's from June 2002.. and an ex logging saw from Centralia Washington... I bet he bought it dead and resold it to you.


 Amazing this site has a bunch of hound dogs.
Cops don't even act that fast.

Give us his home address and I'll bet we can do more for you.
how about his E mail


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## 04ultra (Dec 7, 2006)

manual said:


> Amazing this site has a bunch of hound dogs.
> Cops don't even act that fast.
> 
> Give us his home address and I'll bet we can do more for you.
> how about his E mail




Manual we had that info a couple hours ago...



He also has a web....site






.


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## aquan8tor (Dec 7, 2006)

manual said:


> Amazing this site has a bunch of hound dogs.
> Cops don't even act that fast.
> 
> Give us his home address and I'll bet we can do more for you.
> how about his E mail




vigilante justice still has a place in modern society, given adequate cause.


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## Lakeside53 (Dec 7, 2006)

manual said:


> Amazing this site has a bunch of hound dogs.
> Cops don't even act that fast.
> 
> Give us his home address and I'll bet we can do more for you.
> how about his E mail




The Paypal receipt will have his shipping address... The saw wasn't in his name...


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## Sprig (Dec 7, 2006)

Excellent Lakeside! There be the leg to stand on, but I'd take ekka up on his offer, get withdrawn the claim carp on e-prey, and pizz in his cornflakes if I could.
:greenchainsaw:


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## manual (Dec 7, 2006)

aquan8tor said:


> vigilante justice still has a place in modern society, given adequate cause.


well wait and see.maybe he has to sleep over this.
sounds like the seller knows he ripped him.


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## aquan8tor (Dec 7, 2006)

I will be tuning in at the same bat time, same bat channel.....


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## Pollock777 (Dec 7, 2006)

*E-bay*

I think there should be a thread on this site of sellers on e-bay to stay away from if they're going to try to scam people. Because I know this isn't the first time someone has had probles with e-bay. I had a problem with a saw I bought from e-bay man said he was a Stihl dealer and the saw ran great when it left his shop. He told me I didn't know how to adjust the carb. the carb had to be rebuilt,tank cleaned/new fuel lines and filters and all new gaskets. And I told him I knew the saw was apart because the gaskets had RV sealant on them. He said I put the sealant on the gaskets. Then you try to leave neg. feedback and they turn around and leave neg. feedback on you! INO you can keep e-bay they can sell you trash and get away with it. Again This is MY Opinion :bang:


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## belgian (Dec 7, 2006)

sawinredneck said:


> Very generous of you Eric


second that, but I knew that already  
my signature says thanks, again.
roland


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## timberrat (Dec 7, 2006)

*skrewed*

that saw looks like it s three or more saws patched together. i sell on ebay and this guy takes the cake for ripoff artist. sorry you got skrewed so bad. that saw looks to be false 440. i have seen this krap from other sellers over years.painted pig sold as brand new piggy when lol and be hold it paint old piggy.:bang: sue the [email protected]@ off him if notin else.


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## mattinky (Dec 7, 2006)

I hate dishonest people! I sell a lot of stuff on eBay, mostly motorcycle parts and recently some saw parts. I am 110% honest about what I sell, I don't rip people off with crazy shipping prices and if there's _any_ problem I take care of business at once. I don't know how some of these eBayer's sleep at night, I just could'nt rip someone off like that. It's amazing how these guys word their descriptions to cover their a** and it seems like people selling chainsaws are the worst I've seen on eBay! You'll see a non-running high dollar saw and they say "I don't know if it runs or not, I have'nt checked it" GIVE ME A BREAK FOR CRYIN' OUT LOUD! Your selling a 395XP and you don't know if it runs or not? Come on. The part I hate most is that it turns people away from eBay and that hurts good, honest sellers that take care of business like myself (and many others) . _ALWAYS_ check a sellers feedback before you bid on anything on eBay. I'm very sorry that you got ripped off - I wish there were something I could do to help you!
Matt in KY


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## Timbercutter (Dec 7, 2006)

I buy and sell alot on ebay and first and foremost ck their feedback!!!! If their not at least in the high 99% I want bid..I have a 100% feedback and its not hard to keep it that way.Its just that simple..If they have low feedback there is always a reason..This guy new the saw was trashed and should own up to it and make it right but he want and will get away with it hurting the few honest sellers there are..


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## Timbercutter (Dec 7, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> It's from June 2002.. and an ex logging saw from Centralia Washington... I bet he bought it dead and resold it to you.




He stated the saw was two years old and yall found it to be from 2002 that is misreprentation and paypal will refund your money if you wanted to stick it too this seller..


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## deezulsmoke (Dec 7, 2006)

I am sure with all the people on this forum that someone somewhere lives pretty close to this guy :hmm3grin2orange: I agree also on the ebay deal of listing peoples names on here that are honest and good people to deal with and also the aholes that lie and try to stiff people on ebay. That is the only reason I have not bought a saw off ebay yet.


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## blsnelling (Dec 7, 2006)

Here's his RC car website. LINK


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## deezulsmoke (Dec 7, 2006)

It would really be nice if everyone could get a thread going on ebay users that would always stay at the top of the forum. I know there are honest good people on ebay its just taking a chance on finding them.


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## Ed in Maine (Dec 7, 2006)

Amazing, can't believe the description and what you received. Let alone the comments on it being a mongral 440. I would use the facts to justify the refund, incorrect age and misfit pieces. My vote is that paypal will correct it. By the way, ebay owns paypal, they also bought skype shortly after that purchase. They have quite the monopoly, huge office right is Silicon Valley, San Jose. Good luck! I will be definitely buying new for my first saw, wouldn't even know where to begin on that one. Kudos the those offering parts 
Ed


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## blsnelling (Dec 7, 2006)

The seller is offering me a $100 refund. If I refuse it, PayPal continues to investigate. If they decide in the sellers favor, I get nothing. I'm inclined to deny the refund.


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## Ed in Maine (Dec 7, 2006)

That doesn't sound too unreasonable to me. Since your goal is to putter on them and fix'em up and there are some parts here that you can use to get it running. Maybe you could reply back with $150, about half price?
If you do decline though, I think you would win, but must hassle with packaging it back up and shipping it out, and I am almost positive you will have to pay shipping both ways....something to consider. IF you decline AND win you would have $50 ish into absolultely nothing, UPS is the only person that wins.
Ed


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## Hired Gun (Dec 7, 2006)

IF you decline AND win you would have $50 ish into absolultely nothing, UPS is the only person that wins.
Ed[/QUOTE]

***Then again there is something to be said for having the satisfaction of knowing you are in the right. Then again that is just me and I am a stubborn mule. :deadhorse:


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## Hired Gun (Dec 7, 2006)

BL, on another note where is Franklin? My sister lives in Thornville. I try to make it out there once a year to let the guys at EEP get nasty with my Cummins.


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## Buckeye (Dec 7, 2006)

I would decline his "offer". That leaves him (the seller) almost $200 to the good for pawning off a pile of parts.


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## rb_in_va (Dec 7, 2006)

blsnelling said:


> The seller is offering me a $100 refund. If I refuse it, PayPal continues to investigate. If they decide in the sellers favor, I get nothing. I'm inclined to deny the refund.



If he is offering $100, he would probably give you $150, just to settle the issue. Sellers that do a lot of volume on ebay can get in a bind with disputes locking things up.


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## ol'homey (Dec 7, 2006)

If it were me I'd decline it too due to the fact that the seller is a crook. IOW for me it wouldn't be about the $ anymore, I'd just want to put my size 13 up his a$$. This isn't an "honest mistake" he knew exactly what he was doing. You can't even give him neg. feedback without him neging you back so the person looking at his feedback won't even have a clue what he did to you. I say you make it clear to paypal that the saw was misrepresented due to it being 4 yrs. old instead of 2. See if paypal will do the right thing and give your $ back. I'd say the odds of the paypal "buyer protection" scam deciding in your favor even when presented with proof the saw is 4 yrs old, is less than 50%. I hope I'm wrong and they give you a full refund. Either way this will be a good test to see who paypal protects buyers or sellers. Maybe it will save somebody else here from getting screwed buying saws on Ebay.


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## rb_in_va (Dec 7, 2006)

deezulsmoke said:


> I am sure with all the people on this forum that someone somewhere lives pretty close to this guy :hmm3grin2orange: I agree also on the ebay deal of listing peoples names on here that are honest and good people to deal with and also the aholes that lie and try to stiff people on ebay. That is the only reason I have not bought a saw off ebay yet.



You sure about that? He's in Montana. Less than a million peple in the whole state.


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## M.R. (Dec 7, 2006)

ol'homey said:


> If it were me I'd decline it too due to the fact that the seller is a crook. IOW for me it wouldn't be about the $ anymore, I'd just want to put my size 13 up his a$$. This isn't an "honest mistake" he knew exactly what he was doing. You can't even give him neg. feedback without him neging you back so the person looking at his feedback won't even have a clue what he did to you. I say you make it clear to paypal that the saw was misrepresented due to it being 4 yrs. old instead of 2. See if paypal will do the right thing and give your $ back. I'd say the odds of the paypal "buyer protection" scam deciding in your favor even when presented with proof the saw is 4 yrs old, is less than 50%. I hope I'm wrong and they give you a full refund. Either way this will be a good test to see who paypal protects buyers or sellers. Maybe it will save somebody else here from getting screwed buying saws on Ebay.



Heck: He ought to get the total w/shipping back, if the seller places any value on the saw he ought to also pay for the return shipping.

Anything less with out getting TOO long winded, 

'SUCK IT UP PRINCESS'


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## DDM (Dec 7, 2006)

Geeees i started reading this thread not paying attention to the dates i was thinking this was 4 or 5 days ongoing not less than 24 hr's! WOW!


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## Ekka (Dec 7, 2006)

No one likes a rip off mongrel DDM anywhere in the world and an E-Bayer just makes it worse.

I got 3 stuffed 44's in the shed I'll be stripping and Ole Mate should be able to rebuild a good one for nicks ... perhaps has to buy gaskets and crank case seals.

We bought a cheap old freezer for $100 off another smaller i/net site here in OZ. All supposed to be working fine etc, great freezer selling due to receiving a gift of new one! Got it home and plugged it in, the thermostat was stuffed and it ran 24/7, it leaked water from god knows where and we had to mop up around it everyday. I tipped it up and it was all rusted underneath ... took pics. They tried to say it was working fine when it left their house but where stuffed when I sent pics of rust and the water puddle every day. within 24 hours we had a full refund but did have to drive it back across town. They tried to hit us with negative feedback but the site owner deleted it and banned them.

We all make mistakes but to blatantly lie and rip some-one off deserves a good flogging. Send him to Tasmania I say. hahaha lol. 

Anyway, I'm off saw stripping ... an am surprised how easy it is.


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## MikeInParadise (Dec 7, 2006)

Seems like a deceitful listing to me! 

Lets me see!

A) "Personal Firewood Saw" but sold to a logging company according to lakeside stihl records.

B) 2 years old but it is a 2002.

C) "SO I TOOK IT INTO THE STIHL SHOP AND HAD IT LOOKED AT. THEY SAID IT NEEDED A NEW PULL CORD AND A MAGNEATO." yeah, sure he did! 

I trust very little off of ebay as I have had so many things purchased that were misrepresented and just wrong listings. 

I totally agree that there should be post with rating and experiences with the various ebay sellers out there as this could save some grief for some!

I will follow this with interest to see what ebay/paypal say about this as he did put all kinds of disclaimers in his add even though he did misrepresent the saw.

Good Luck!


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## 04ultra (Dec 7, 2006)

DDM said:


> Geeees i started reading this thread not paying attention to the dates i was thinking this was 4 or 5 days ongoing not less than 24 hr's! WOW!




DDM thats because it was not SPAM......If it were SPAM you would have seen that rite away.. :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: 







..


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## Ekka (Dec 7, 2006)

Here we go, this ones a little ripper, just clean as a whistle.


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## Ekka (Dec 7, 2006)

some more

Cant tell I run 32:1 and slightly rich can ya? lol


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## 04ultra (Dec 7, 2006)

Ekka said:


> some more
> 
> Cant tell I run 32:1 and slightly rich can ya? lol





Eric now you have me interested too ...





..


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## blsnelling (Dec 7, 2006)

Ekka said:


> Here we go, this ones a little ripper, just clean as a whistle.


Now we're talkin'. That piston looks excellent! Yes, they are simple to disassemble. Only a few minutes to gut the entire saw.

I'm going to refuse the $100. That would leave me still eating $130. The cost to replace the crank, cylinder, piston, and gaskets off eBay would be $230. There's no way I'm going to accept $100. He knows he's done wrong and don't have a leg to stand on, or he would even be making me an offer.


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## Sprig (Dec 7, 2006)

Ekka said:


> Here we go, this ones a little ripper, just clean as a whistle.


Looks nice man! If he takes ya up on it he should be able to have a decent unit, like I said in my recc, yer a good man!

Me  You


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## blsnelling (Dec 7, 2006)

Sprig said:


> Looks nice man! If he takes ya up on it he should be able to have a decent unit, like I said in my recc, yer a good man!
> 
> Me  You


Can't turn down an offer like that. Ekka's tearing all these old saws apart so that he can send me the best of his used parts. He's even including a starter assembly to replace the worn out one on my saw. This "two year old home owner saw" was used so much that the rope had worn through the bushing it pulls through and the bottom right of the fan housing itself is worn all the way through to the plastic segment inside the starter.

I just finished denying the sellers $100 refund offer. We'll see what happens next.


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## oldsaw (Dec 7, 2006)

Ekka, guys like you make me proud to be a AS member. I'll hang with guys like you any time, as often, and as long as I can.

You be 'da man.

Mark


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## blsnelling (Dec 7, 2006)

Hired Gun said:


> BL, on another note where is Franklin? My sister lives in Thornville. I try to make it out there once a year to let the guys at EEP get nasty with my Cummins.


I'm just south of Dayton about 20 miles.


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## Bermie (Dec 7, 2006)

What a read!
It's like Dear Abbey for chainsaw users! It is really nice to know that the AS support network kicks in when there is a real need, hope you end up with a rockin' saw at the end of it all especially with those Aussie attitude parts!

When its all done, take some pics of it cutting, sell it for a bomb and send the jerk a picture of how much $$$ You made off of HIM!


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## DDM (Dec 7, 2006)

I wunder what its going to cost to send the saw up from down under?


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## SmokinDodge (Dec 7, 2006)

DDM said:


> I wunder what its going to cost to send the saw up from down under?



I'm sure it will pale in comparison to buying a new crank and bearings!

Ekka's the man! This rounds on me..............


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## blsnelling (Dec 7, 2006)

Bermie said:


> What a read!
> It's like Dear Abbey for chainsaw users! It is really nice to know that the AS support network kicks in when there is a real need, hope you end up with a rockin' saw at the end of it all especially with those Aussie attitude parts!
> 
> When its all done, take some pics of it cutting, sell it for a bomb and send the jerk a picture of how much $$$ You made off of HIM!


Like it or not, the result of this will have to be videod. That's the least I can do pay back you guys. Too bad I don't have a video of it clanking and banging as I tried to start it before I took it apart. It actually fired a couple times but never started. Good thing it didn't. I might have had case piecs in my skull!


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## blackoak (Dec 7, 2006)

Timbercutter said:


> I buy and sell alot on ebay and first and foremost ck their feedback!!!! If their not at least in the high 99% I want bid..I have a 100% feedback and its not hard to keep it that way.Its just that simple..If they have low feedback there is always a reason..This guy new the saw was trashed and should own up to it and make it right but he want and will get away with it hurting the few honest sellers there are..


 It is easy to keep 100% positive feedback if you never give bad feedback. I have sold alot of saws and saw parts on ebay and what negative feedback I have gotten was from non paying bidders who never followed through and send payment for the item. When I left neg feedback for a non paying bidder, I usualy get it in retaliation. The only time I truly deserved neg feedback was when I sold something I knew nothing about. I gave him a full refund, but still got a neg feedback from him. I learned my lesson. Most people will try and make things right including me, but this guy that sold the 044 must be a true hole!
I did get a neg once for selling a guy an 041 that I listed as having a 20" bar , but it had an 18" bar. I would have been more than happy to send him a 20" bar and let him keep the 18" bar if he would have gave me the opportunity to do so, but he didn't, so I didn't.


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## aquan8tor (Dec 7, 2006)

not to siderail this thread at all, but what is it, chemically, that causes palm sawdust to be so corrosive?? In my area I've certainly never seen one cut, as I'm in just about in the mountains...It looks like what would happen if you ran your saw on a log soaked in seawater!!!!


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## disandat (Dec 7, 2006)

Gee, that saw looks like it had been run beyond the bearing nose. Lot of burnt residue there. Not sure if that's normal for a two-stroke.

Ps.

I was commenting on BL's saw from Ebay. Ekka has some real nice stuff. To bad the Stihl cases aren't treated with aircraft primer.


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## RiverRat2 (Dec 7, 2006)

*Ekka,,,, One awesome dude*

Really upstanding, I must say. It is a privilege to be associated with a bunch of fine People. Hey Ekka do some varieties of those palms have teeth along the edge where they attach to the trunk is that what makes them so destructive on the saw Parts????


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## AJLOGGER (Dec 7, 2006)

Ekka said:


> Here we go, this ones a little ripper, just clean as a whistle.



Very good thing you did. I will chime in with the rest of the posters, I am tickled to be a part of this crowd. Everyone make sure that you give EKKA his due reputation points.


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## blsnelling (Dec 7, 2006)

AJLOGGER said:


> Everyone make sure that you give EKKA his due reputation points.


Just did.


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## aquan8tor (Dec 7, 2006)

ditto


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## Ekka (Dec 7, 2006)

OK, so ya'll wanna know why the stupid palms corrode the living chit out of saws.

Wait till ole mate sees it first hand, he'll freak!

Palms hold a lot of water, unlike trees the entire thickness is working wood, no deadwood or heartwood, all vascular bundles. (So I suppose you cant ringbark a palm)

When you cut palms the saw dust is like wet lawn clippings. Sticks like mud to a wall. Unlike proper sawdust it behaves like playdough, moulding itself to every nook and cranny, hole, divet and gap. It forces it's way into the brake band recess, the chain brake covers are no guard either and it gets in there too.

Then a transition occurs, a very quick one. The wet sticky crap changes it's PH and starts going acidic.

You can buy palm sugar, and palm vinegar. Whilst I'm not a oenologist and understand the entire process I do know that the sap becomes acidic. In fact some research has found that the PH goes from 6.5 down as low as 3.2 over 48 hours.

Now the acidity seems to react with the saw casing. My hunch is it reacts more so to the magnesium than the aluminium.

The reason I think that is because a lower quality cheaper saw (Echo 350T) actually stood up to the corrosion much better than Stihl or Husky. I think the Echo has less magnesium, there's a distinct difference. On the 350T the oil pump was fully exposed to palm juice for 18months and was hardly pitted. Meanwhile with the Stihl 44's the oil pump is somewhat hidden but would heavily corrode. In fact changing oil pumps is a regular thing. I have always a brand newy in the toolbox.

On the 200T the oil pump is hidden a bit but the ass end of it gets corroded away, I used to change them but found they actually keep working ... sort of like looking at the terminator with that wierdo eye you see the guts of it! But it still works pumping oil ... eventually it leaks and you get sick of puddles.

Steel parts just get rusty, clutch springs get rusty and break often.

Palms suck! You may think some are better than others but when it comes to corrosion there's no difference. They'll root ya chipper blades in no time too and you better clean out and oil ya chipper after a decent session.

Many varieties are just evil little chits on sticks that need culling, LA has smelled the roses and is gonna start mass culling.

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=39999

And to settle the tree huggers down replacement planting with better things is the go. Over here palms were simply overplanted and in the worst spots ... my record was 76 queen palms cut down and stump ground in 1 house and took us a week. You just wouldn't plant 76 full blown trees would you? There are many varieties and some are nice and some stay small but so many bad ones are sold it's not funny, the queen palm is banned here now.

Hope that helps. And I allocate special saws to palm duties and the 46 and 66 never ever cut palms! And I've had them for years.


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## RiverRat2 (Dec 7, 2006)

*Dont know how???*

:monkey:


AJLOGGER said:


> Very good thing you did. I will chime in with the rest of the posters, I am tickled to be a part of this crowd. Everyone make sure that you give EKKA his due reputation points.




How do you apply rep points never done it before but I will if someone can guide me through it.


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## disandat (Dec 7, 2006)

RiverRat2 said:


> :monkey:
> 
> 
> How do you apply rep points never done it before but I will if someone can guide me through it.



Just click on the white scales below the membe'rs name. That will take you to another screen where you show your approval and cool comment.


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## RiverRat2 (Dec 7, 2006)

*That works!!!*

Thanks for the tip


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## SmokinDodge (Dec 8, 2006)

And if you go to your User CP (top left of screen) you can see what people have left for you. Check it out


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## 04ultra (Dec 8, 2006)

SmokinDodge said:


> And if you go to your User CP (top left of screen) you can see what people have left for you. Check it out





And then dont forget to pass the Flask.....................................


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## manual (Dec 8, 2006)

blsnelling said:


> .
> 
> I'm going to refuse the $100. That would leave me still eating $130. The cost to replace the crank, cylinder, piston, and gaskets off eBay would be $230. There's no way I'm going to accept $100. He knows he's done wrong and don't have a leg to stand on, or he would even be making me an offer.



Good for you,
You are already out the money. Let it ride and see what happens.
I'm checking out his web site.


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## Marc1 (Dec 8, 2006)

Ekka said:


> OK, so ya'll wanna know why the stupid palms corrode the living chit out of saws.
> 
> Wait till ole mate sees it first hand, he'll freak!
> 
> ...



Incredibel story. Nasty stuff those palms you have.
Now this may sound a tad simplistic but wouldn't it be possible to steam clean or pressure clean the saw at the end of the day?


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## SmokinDodge (Dec 8, 2006)

Marc1 said:


> Incredibel story. Nasty stuff those palms you have.
> Now this may sound a tad simplistic but wouldn't it be possible to steam clean or pressure clean the saw at the end of the day?



You would think so. 

How long do you think it would usually take to really clean a saw well that's packed full of this goo?

I've never cut a palm in my life but here is my guess, and no none of the numbers are exact but the idea is present:

I'd say 20 minutes at the end of EVERY day. 5 Days a week x 20 minutes = 100 minutes a week. 100 minutes a week x 52 weeks in a year =5200 minutes or 86.66 hours. If you billed yourself out cheap at $50 an hour (Could be cutting trees instead of cleaning saw) it would cost you $4,333 a year. Or you could just buy a new saw every year. :biggrinbounce2:


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## Ekka (Dec 8, 2006)

Yeah and here's the irony.

I used to and the saws died quicker as you would present a nice new clean surface for palm juice instead of a coated one!

Less cleaning means an existing buffer of crud is already in place ... problem is the buffer of stuff can stop ya chain brake working or oil pump spinning.

Sort of reminds you of the old cavity cleaning technique that was discovered to do more bad than good.

And yeah, I doused it with all sorts of oils, gue, fibreglass, paint etc etc ... forget about it and buy a new saw. Chit I'd cut $100K worth of palms with it.

Sad part is in all the years of saving the corroded saws in the hope of finding 44's with clapped out engines and good chasis ... it never happened. People just hang on to old saws.

Anyway, they've gone to good use now, and I suppose as the years roll by there'll be more 44's for parts from me. :biggrinbounce2: It's just the way it is.


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## aquan8tor (Dec 9, 2006)

Ekka said:


> OK, so ya'll wanna know why the stupid palms corrode the living chit out of saws.
> 
> Wait till ole mate sees it first hand, he'll freak!
> 
> ...




Thanks for the lesson. That pH change is pretty amazing. for those that don't understand, going 3.3 pH points down is 3000 times more acidic at 3.2pH than at pH6.5. :jawdrop: pH is an exponential scale. Pretty amazing. I won't be planting any palms here any time soon..... 


So, any news on the buggar who sold you the saw, blsnelling??

I've been in bed with a flu virus for a bit.


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## Marc1 (Dec 10, 2006)

SmokinDodge said:


> You would think so.
> 
> How long do you think it would usually take to really clean a saw well that's packed full of this goo?
> 
> ...




Hum...when I do accept the explanation above that cleaning makes it worst, your explanation is a bit... hum... out there.
You cannot factor in your time in that way. If the cost of opportunity of your 20 minutes is zero, that is cleaning up, just as packing up your tools, washing your hands or taking a shower has also an opportunity cost zero since you are not stopping any other productive activity in order to do that, then your hypothetical $4,333 is also equal to zero. 
Obviously EKKA makes money cutting palms and has factored the cost of replacing the saw in the job, after all saws are not expensive compared to other trade tools.
Carpenters for example drive around with an average of the cost of 20 saws or more.

Still it would be an interesting experiment to find a way to beat this thing. Repainting the saw with industrial acid resistant epoxy paint may be a consideration. Probably cost the same as new saw hehe


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## blsnelling (Dec 10, 2006)

It may be a while before I have much of an update. PayPal is going through their investigation process since I declined the measely refund the seller offered. If he gets away with this, it won't be because I made it easy for him. I'm not expecting the parts from Ekka to arrive for another week to a week and a half.


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## belgian (Dec 10, 2006)

blsnelling said:


> It may be a while before I have much of an update. PayPal is going through their investigation process since I declined the measely refund the seller offered. If he gets away with this, it won't be because I made it easy for him. I'm not expecting the parts from Ekka to arrive for another week to a week and a half.



Please let us know how this turns out. This seller committed fraude 100% and personally I'm very interested to see if Ebay or Paypal is going to take their responsibility. Good testcase for them, I would say.
and you derserve to be compensated.
good luck. 
Roland


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## blsnelling (Dec 10, 2006)

belgian said:


> Please let us know how this turns out.


You can count on it. 
I found out the cylinder Ekka's sending me has a decomp valve. Mine didn't have one so I needed the plastic top engine cover. Ekka had one but didn't know I needed it until he had already shipped my package. Ekka's found a way to get the engine cover to me. He's sending some parts to ComputerUser for a saw he's working on (free again!!!) and is going to include the cover I need in that package. ComputerUser will then forward the cover to me. I'm really making friends here. I appreciate it a lot. I'm doing my best to see that justice is done to the seller, but I just can't get too mad about the whole thing with the way you guys have been bailing me out. Merry Christmas to all!


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## Lakeside53 (Dec 10, 2006)

you can just put the Stihl plug in the decomp hole and forget it. 

Hmmmm.. you bought an MS440 off Ebay and it didn't have a decomp??? or even provision in the plastiic shround???? That wasn't a 440...


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## blsnelling (Dec 10, 2006)

What did the serial number say? I believe you looked it up for me. Serial# = X154509592 Check the pics in the eBay link on the 1st page. The model tag clearly says MS 440 and has no decomp valve. ???


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## Lakeside53 (Dec 10, 2006)

blsnelling said:


> What did the serial number say? I believe you looked it up for me. Serial# = X154509592 Check the pics in the eBay link on the 1st page. The model tag clearly says MS 440 and has no decomp valve. ???



I could be wrong... but the shrouds I've seen on MS440s without decomp have provision for it - and a small black plastic plug if no decomp (rare anyhow). It's real easy to change the name tag... or the shroud, or


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## tek9tim (Dec 11, 2006)

I've run some 440s that were bought in '01 that did not have compression releases, provisions in the shroud, or hole in the cylinder. Check the tech release for the changeover, too. No mention of a compression release. This pic is kinda bad, but this is one of those early 440s.


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## Lakeside53 (Dec 11, 2006)

Yep... I think you are correct.. There were some early version like that. The current IPL's only list the decomp shroud now.


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## SmokinDodge (Dec 11, 2006)

Marc1 said:


> Hum...when I do accept the explanation above that cleaning makes it worst, your explanation is a bit... hum... out there.
> You cannot factor in your time in that way. If the cost of opportunity of your 20 minutes is zero, that is cleaning up, just as packing up your tools, washing your hands or taking a shower has also an opportunity cost zero since you are not stopping any other productive activity in order to do that, then your hypothetical $4,333 is also equal to zero.
> Obviously EKKA makes money cutting palms and has factored the cost of replacing the saw in the job, after all saws are not expensive compared to other trade tools.
> Carpenters for example drive around with an average of the cost of 20 saws or more.
> ...



Ya, it may have been "out there" but it was 2 a.m. and you smelled what i was cooking.


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## adkranger (Dec 11, 2006)

BL I hope this all works out for ya. Lotsa help being given here on AS. Good stuff. The wagons are circled.

Shout out to Ekka, good job done from down under. Fellow AS'er taking care of a brother sawyer, good work.  Tough chit dealing with them Palms, I'll never look at them things the same. Always thought they'd be easy...:hmm3grin2orange: 

Someone mentioned earlier to construct a post of good & bad eBayers selling saws/parts, excellent idea. Of course we'd have to give preference to fellow AS'ers and Sponsers. I've bought and sold many things on eBay and have had no bad experiences yet, but I'm picky on their ratings. I simply couldn't live myself doing someone like that deal. I wonder how many AS'ers have clicked on that "Contact Us" button on his Web site.................hehehehe(not that I'm suggesting anything:angel: )


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## blsnelling (Dec 16, 2006)

I got all my parts from Ekka yesterday. Both cylinders are good, one's exceptional. Both cranks are good. One piston is good. Of course the flywheel side case halves are good as well. He also left the coils on for me. 

Good piston










Bad piston









Here's a bunch of parts waiting to be cleaned





And you though only a single guy could get away with this.:hmm3grin2orange: I celebrated my 18th anniversary last night.





Here's all the small parts.


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## blsnelling (Dec 16, 2006)

Here's some better pics of Ekka's palm-trashed cases.

















Holes on the back side where they had eaten all the way through.


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## Ekka (Dec 16, 2006)

Glad you are happy and man that's a nice looking piston ... got any cylinder shots?


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## blsnelling (Dec 16, 2006)

Ekka said:


> Glad you are happy and man that's a nice looking piston ... got any cylinder shots?



I took some, but the depth of field on my digital SLR is so short that very little of the pic was in focus. Maybe I'll try again with a smaller aperature and report back.


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## bytehoven (Dec 16, 2006)

I must say I am lovin' the atmosphere 'round here. You guys are special. 

Best of luck. Good thing you checked out the saw right away rather than letting it sit awhile.


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## adkranger (Dec 16, 2006)

You are good! Or else you're pullin' our legs and have spare dishwasher in your shop.:biggrinbounce2: What do find works best for Stihl cases, Dawn or Cascade.  

You are giving me inspiration though, got a beat up Husky 371xp I picked up at a garage sale this past summer that I may tear down this winter. Originally was going to leave as it was for a "beater" saw with my redneck fixes in place. All I need now is good left case......  

Glad to see it working out for you.


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## RaisedByWolves (Dec 16, 2006)

No wonder EKKA calls himself the PalmSlayer!





:jawdrop: Them things fight back! :jawdrop:


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## blsnelling (Dec 16, 2006)

Here's the best cylinder from Ekka.










Here's the other. It's in good shape, but not as nice as the other.


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## blsnelling (Dec 16, 2006)

Here's what the dishwasher's good for. This is a MS 260 I'm working on. I did very little other than run it through the washer twice. Of course, as soon as it's done washing, I rinsed it very thoroughly and then blew it dry and oiled the bearings. The seals were removed before the washing so that they would not catch debris. This saw was FILTHY. I washed the tanks and everything. Everything is blow dried and will set open for at least a couple days. Water will not be a concern.




Yes, that's my kitchen counter 





This is how it started and you can't see the worst of it in this pic.


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## Ekka (Dec 16, 2006)

There you go, pretty good.

Computerusers stuff shouldn't be too far behind either.

Hmmm, I think I might have something else to sacrifice to the saw builders bench in the garage ... I'll have a look.

You guys obviously like this stuff but out here parts are a killer and the market small ... like getting rid of second hand bits is near impossible.


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## blsnelling (Dec 16, 2006)

OK Ekka. Whatcha got up your sleeve?


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## Marco (Dec 17, 2006)

Glad I didn't rent a movie after reading through all this.


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## disandat (Dec 17, 2006)

My wife  is wondering if you have before and after pictures of the dishwasher. :biggrinbounce2:


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## blsnelling (Dec 17, 2006)

I almost took a picture of the washer afterwards. There was no grease when I got done. There was a little dirt right below the bottom of the door. It simply wiped off with a set rag and left no grease. You cannot tell I used it at all. What you saw was not the only load I did. I had parts from three saws in there. I did not pre clean them other than some compressed air. They were very greasy and dirty when they went in the washer. That washer detergent, along with lots of heat, is a powerful cleaner. It sure makes my job a lot easier. Cleaning a nasty old saw can be a lot of work. Not any more


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## Buckeye (Dec 17, 2006)

I've used the dishwasher to clean up old gun stocks, but I never thought of using it for chainsaws/greasy parts. Good idea.


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## SawTroll (Dec 17, 2006)

Buckeye said:


> I've used the dishwasher to clean up old gun stocks, but I never thought of using it for chainsaws/greasy parts. Good idea.




Well, I wouldn't put wooden gun stocks in the dishwasher  (the Witch told me, but actually, I already new), but saw parts is perfectly OK, unless it is an unplugged motor.......


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## RiverRat2 (Dec 17, 2006)

Ekka said:


> There you go, pretty good.
> 
> Computerusers stuff shouldn't be too far behind either.
> 
> ...



Hey Ekka, I know this sounds like a lot of trouble but,,,, have you ever thought about stripping your saws down when they are brand new,,, and spraying the cases with acrylicpolymer before they ever see a palm??????

Hey dont that make your dishes smell and taste likr premix???????

BTW I have a 440 project too!!!!!!! LOL


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## Buckeye (Dec 17, 2006)

I've done several dozen Garand stocks, and I haven't hurt one yet. They come out stripped clean and most of the dents are raised. All they need is a few days drying (I don't use the DW dryer), then a light wipedown with 000 steel wool and they are ready for finish.


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## disandat (Dec 17, 2006)

RiverRat,

I was thinking somewhat on the same path. I was thinking they could be sprayed down with teflon paint or maybe a combination of Chromium primer and Teflon. The big problem is getting a scratch. Every time they are used they should be inspected for scratches and the spot treated. Lots of labor there.


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## crashagn (Dec 17, 2006)

Any updated news from paypal about getting reimbursed?


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## blsnelling (Dec 17, 2006)

Nothing yet. It could be several weeks before they complete their investigation.


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## blsnelling (Dec 18, 2006)

OK all you pyromaniacs. Here's what Magnesium looks like burning. This is one of the case halves from Ekka's corroded 440s.





















After it burns a short while, a clump of burnt mag is formed and begins smothering the fire.




Here the fire has gone out and the mag begins to cool.




I've knocked the clump off in this pic.


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## RiverRat2 (Dec 18, 2006)

disandat said:


> RiverRat,
> 
> I was thinking somewhat on the same path. I was thinking they could be sprayed down with teflon paint or maybe a combination of Chromium primer and Teflon. The big problem is getting a scratch. Every time they are used they should be inspected for scratches and the spot treated. Lots of labor there.


 Actually if the paint was like and Ameron industrial grade epoxy, the baked and sealed with polymer and he got a couple of extra years out of a saw it would seem like it would be worth it,,,, 

But on the flip side, iEkka may look @ is as being an accepted cost for doing business,,,,and besides look at all the nice parts we get for shipping


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## Ekka (Dec 19, 2006)

RiverRat2 said:


> But on the flip side, iEkka may look @ is as being an accepted cost for doing business,,,,and besides look at all the nice parts we get for shipping



Touche'

Who doesn't like buying and having new saws?

I didn't think there'd be enough magnesium to actually burn like that .... chuck one in the camp fire next camping trip.


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## rb_in_va (Dec 19, 2006)

Ekka said:


> I didn't think there'd be enough magnesium to actually burn like that .... chuck one in the camp fire next camping trip.



Isn't the case made of magnesium alloy? I always thought it would take more than a torch to get magnesium burning, and that it would burn until it was gone.


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## Bermie (Dec 19, 2006)

Wow, chainsaw parts in a dishwasher! I thought I was easygoing - cleaning airfilters in the kitchen sink, but that takes the cake!


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## blsnelling (Dec 19, 2006)

Here's a little update on the 440 rebuild. I bolted the two case halves together and taped all the holes and critical surfaces up. I then sandblasted the entire case. I disassembled the case halves again and thoroughly washed and used compressed air to dry. I then heated both case halves to 300F for 20 minutes (yes, in the wifes oven ) and installed the bearings from one of Ekka's saws, along with the crank which was still in the flywheel side bearing. The bearings dropped right in on both sides, even with the steel insert on the clutch side. I'm now waiting on my gasket kit from CheapStihlParts. Shipping was a little delayed due to the severe weather they had out west. Once I have a case gasket, I'll be able to bolt the cases together and paint the case. I'll be painting it with Stihl gray paint and baking in the oven to cure.


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## blsnelling (Dec 23, 2006)

*Finally!!!*

Here she is! I fired her up about 4 AM. Runs like a champ. Many thanks go out to Ekka for making this possible. The crank, bearings, cylinder, and piston he sent me were in excellent condition. I did put new rings on the piston. I also rebuilt the carb and opened up the muffler. I still don't have a resolution from PayPal, but that takes several weeks for them to investigate.


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## SawTroll (Dec 23, 2006)

It's looking real nice!


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## Ekka (Dec 23, 2006)

Absolutely fantastic  

You do a very good thorough job and I hope the saw serves you well for many years.

Amazing to get all those parts including the cover from Computeruser and have that running by Christmas, a champion all round effort from many including the mail man.


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## Haywire Haywood (Dec 23, 2006)

So what happens now when the resolution is to return the saw and he returns your money.... :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: 

Ian


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## twoodward15 (Dec 23, 2006)

Holy crap, it looks like a new saw!


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## blsnelling (Dec 23, 2006)

Haywire Haywood said:


> So what happens now when the resolution is to return the saw and he returns your money.... :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> Ian


I've wondered about that. I'll just return him all the trashed parts:hmm3grin2orange:


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## blsnelling (Dec 23, 2006)

twoodward15 said:


> Holy crap, it looks like a new saw!


I've put enough time into it. The paint really looks nice, and should stick good since I sand-blasted it first. I had it in the over for several hours too.

I only let it idle last night long enought to get the cylinder hot, so the ring is not broke in at all. I went out this morning, put it on choke, and it popped on the first pull. I think it took two more pull and it was running. Can't beat that! I'll put it through a couple more heat cycles before it sees many RPMs. I think that's only critical on a new piston, but it can't hurt. That's how I used to break in a new Banshee engine, by gradually getting it hotter and hotter. This thing actually jumps in my hand at a slow idle. I think this things going to have a ton of torque.


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## Cut4fun (Dec 23, 2006)

You da-Man. Great job on the rebuild. Wow.....


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## blsnelling (Dec 23, 2006)

Cut4fun said:


> You da-Man. Great job on the rebuild. Wow.....


Just tryin' to earn my stripes here Merry Christmas everyone. I won't have access to high-speed Internet for a few days while I'm gone out of town. I may suffer through some dial-up just to check in.


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## blsnelling (Dec 23, 2006)

Is there any way to "bleach" the tank/handle back to white? I'd take it back apart if someone could tell me how to do it. Now's a fine time to ask huh:bang:


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## Bermie (Dec 23, 2006)

This has been a great thread! 
A problem brought to the forum, offers of help, suggestions, positive material support, hard, work put in, no whinging, whining or moaning...and at the end a super positive outcome!!
Congratulations everyone, it's why I hang around here 
Merry Christmas everyone and I wish a few saws under the tree!


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## oldsaw (Dec 23, 2006)

Great job!!!

Mark


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## disandat (Dec 23, 2006)

Boy howdy!!! What I nice saw!!! This has got to be the best forum even for newbe saw owners like me. Hoping things work out for you with Ebay.


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## Biketrax (Dec 23, 2006)

*Hats Off To you Snelling!*

Very Nice Job on the rebuild! I liked your positive attitude thru the whole ordeal! Great to have such support! There are still a few good Men!
Have a great holiday all! 
Peace on earth to all Men and Ladies!


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## adkranger (Dec 23, 2006)

*Here, Here!!*

Nice job on that 440!  Glad to see the fruits of your labor, man, can't believe you got 'er done before Christmas. You da man. You've inspired me to tear into a project saw of my own this winter. If I get stuck I know where to turn.......


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## blsnelling (Dec 23, 2006)

Really, these things are simple. Maybe that's why I enjoy working on them so much


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## Marc1 (Dec 23, 2006)

Ekka, your generosity will not go astray.
Merry Christmas to all.
blsnelling, can I send you a saw to 'renovate'? 

See you all next year I'm off to NZ

Hooroo
Marc


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## RiverRat2 (Dec 23, 2006)

*Great Job Brad*

I just love a success story, Did you bead blast the cases or really sand blast it... Great Christmas Present,,,,, Hey you could always find a decent handle or paint that one Pearl white!!!!!! with raciing stripes,,,,, LOL Good looking saw Im starting on my 440 Big bore now that Ive seen yours It looks great


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## Lakeside53 (Dec 24, 2006)

blsnelling said:


> Is there any way to "bleach" the tank/handle back to white? I'd take it back apart if someone could tell me how to do it.  Now's a fine time to ask huh:bang:




Nope.... But there are paints that will stick to the nylon (PA66-GF) if it's correctly primed... Look at the new automotive paints for bumpers etc.

Just use it.. once dirty you'll get over it


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## blsnelling (Dec 24, 2006)

I wiped the tank/handle off with bleach. That may have helped a little. I definately won't paint it. In time it would end up looking worse and you wouldn't be able to see the fuel level.

I bought this saw with the intent of fixing it up and reselling it. I thought I'd have to clean it up, replace the starter cord and coil and move it on. After everything I've been through with it now, the thing looks and runs so good I hate to sell it. There's also the pride thing of taking something totally worn out and bringing it back from the dead. The end result is actually a part of you and your personality, an extension of yourself. I almost feel guilty selling it after all the support I've gotten from you guys. I really have no need for it though. My Dad has the 046 which I may sell and give him the 460 I just bought. His cutting days are limited and I'll probably end up with it anyway. I need my normal saw to be lighter too. That's why I've bought the 361 and am going to get it woods ported. I'd love to keep all of them, but that wouldn't be the responsible thing to do. I simply don't need them all. I'm sure there will be more. I really enjoy working on them and will probably buy more to fix up and then sell. I almost like to tinker with stuff more than actually using it. I just enjoy this kind of thing.


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## Lakeside53 (Dec 24, 2006)

Spoken like a TRUE addict!!!! :biggrinbounce2: :biggrinbounce2: :biggrinbounce2:


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## blsnelling (Dec 24, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> Spoken like a TRUE addict!!!! :biggrinbounce2: :biggrinbounce2: :biggrinbounce2:


Yeah, I'm afraid so. I haven't burned firewood in over 2 years now. And here I've sold my perfect 039 and currently have everything you see in my sig. I guess the cure for this is....if you've got a parts saw you want to sell, send me a PM:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


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## Lakeside53 (Dec 24, 2006)

Soon you'll need a sign that says "will work for beer".... I do, so they will stop giving me the hard stuff!


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## PA Plumber (Dec 24, 2006)

Very enjoyable thread. Nice job on the saw and great support from AS members!


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## Indiana John (Dec 24, 2006)

And people can't understand why I don't use Paypal........
After following this rebuild saga, it makes me want to find a well-used MS361 and give it the same treatment. opcorn:


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## bigbadbob (Dec 24, 2006)

Great job on the saw. I'm envious. I have been using ebay and paypal for four years and have had no problem. Takes one bad apple. As for cleaning your plastic handle. We once had some stuff at work that was called "Vandalism spray", man that stuff would clean off paint and even felt pen off of plastic. It smelled real potent and had a lot of warning signs on the label. Probably work on the saw handle, but we no longer use it. HHHMMM wonder why!!! 
Bob


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## Hard Knocks (Dec 24, 2006)

You have done a very nice job on that saw! I hope the feeling of pride takes over any bad feelings. If this had not happened you would likely not gotten this chance to showoff your talent.


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## Buckeye (Dec 24, 2006)

Indiana John said:


> And people can't understand why I don't use Paypal........
> After following this rebuild saga, it makes me want to find a well-used MS361 and give it the same treatment. opcorn:


PayPal was not the source of trouble in this transaction. I'm virtually positive that they will rule in favor of the buyer.


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## Indiana John (Dec 24, 2006)

I understand that the problem here isn't the fault of Paypal, and I certainly hope he gets satisfaction. My comment was in reference to Paypal's business practices, which I tend to find questionable at times. I know I'm not the only person who's had a bad experience (or in my case two) with them.


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## lumberinspector (Dec 24, 2006)

Very nice job blsnelling  

I hope my 920 project comes out half as nice as that  

Amazing work and a guy couldn't ask for better support than here. It has truely been a pleasure reading this thread. 

Hopefully all turns out for the best on the other end of things and you can have a fantastic ending to a P*#% poor start.


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## Lakeside53 (Dec 24, 2006)

Remember - all the factory warning and other labels are available free from your Stihl Dealer - if he balks, PM me... Sure does dress a saw up when you have new labels..


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## ktoom (Dec 24, 2006)

Well here's my current problem with paypal.... When i sold my 359, for some reason the money i got for the saw was put into my old paypal account that i don't have access to anymore. I originally thought the guy was buffalo billin me about the money until i talked to someone at paypal and they said the money was in my old account. So i finally shipped out the saw and the guy that bought the saw was very un happy with me, but it was my first time selling and honestly what would you think if you didn't see the money in your account yet the guys says he sent it to you? I went with my gut feeling. I couldn't apolligised enough to him. So here it is 30 days later and i still don't have my money and i talked to paypal 2 weeks ago. I still have yet to get a responce from paypal. They put in a request to transfer the money and i gave them all of my personal info. I am never using paypal again, for nothing at all. Im gonna call paypal again next week to see what the problem is. Its my fualt, but why would they put money into an old account that hasn't been used in a year??


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## rb_in_va (Dec 24, 2006)

ktoom said:


> Well here's my current problem with paypal.... When i sold my 359, for some reason the money i got for the saw was put into my old paypal account that i don't have access to anymore. I originally thought the guy was buffalo billin me about the money until i talked to someone at paypal and they said the money was in my old account. So i finally shipped out the saw and the guy that bought the saw was very un happy with me, but it was my first time selling and honestly what would you think if you didn't see the money in your account yet the guys says he sent it to you? I went with my gut feeling. I couldn't apolligised enough to him. So here it is 30 days later and i still don't have my money and i talked to paypal 2 weeks ago. I still have yet to get a responce from paypal. They put in a request to transfer the money and i gave them all of my personal info. I am never using paypal again, for nothing at all. Im gonna call paypal again next week to see what the problem is. Its my fualt, but why would they put money into an old account that hasn't been used in a year??



Why did you have 2 accounts?


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## Haywire Haywood (Dec 24, 2006)

Indiana John said:


> And people can't understand why I don't use Paypal........



I don't use paypal because my wife's account got hacked once. We closed both our accounts and just deal in MOs now. It's not an everyday occurance anyway so it's not that much of an inconvenience.

Ian


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## Indiana John (Dec 24, 2006)

I feel your pain! I've still got money in my old Paypal account that I can't get to. What happened with me was that they screwed up my password. And not just once but twice! The first time it happened, I was able to reset my password from their site, and I chalked it up to bad luck. The second time it happened I was not so blase' about it. Especially after I found that they wouldn't let me reset my password again without calling a phone #. Unfortunately that # was constantly busy no matter when I tried to call! And I tried several times over at least a week. And no, you didn't get the option to leave a message or wait on hold. Just: "All are operators are busy. Please try again later. Click!". I decided that if that was their idea of customer service, they didn't need me as a customer. :censored: 
Nowadays I just use Postal money orders. They can easily be tracked, and if you pay and don't get your item, it's Postal fraud which is a felony.


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## blsnelling (Dec 24, 2006)

Buckeye said:


> PayPal was not the source of trouble in this transaction. I'm virtually positive that they will rule in favor of the buyer.


That is correct. The saw was misrepresented in the eBay auction. I paid via PayPal. In this case, I think PayPal will be my saviour. I've been on the wrong end of PayPals decisions before and fully expect them to find in my favor. I once sold a $300 dollar item and shipped it. The buyer said he never got it. I didn't have a tracking#, therefore no proof of shipment. They took the money away from me. A tough lesson to say the least. The other time, I sold >$300 of computer memory and shipped it to.....the Philipines. Yeah I know. The guy paid with a hacked PayPal account. Because I didn't ship to a confirmed address, the money was taken away from me again. I still use PayPal but will only ship to a confirmed US address with a signature required for delivery. You just have to play by their rules.


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## Buckeye (Dec 24, 2006)

ktoom said:


> Well here's my current problem with paypal.... When i sold my 359, for some reason the money i got for the saw was put into my old paypal account that i don't have access to anymore. I originally thought the guy was buffalo billin me about the money until i talked to someone at paypal and they said the money was in my old account. So i finally shipped out the saw and the guy that bought the saw was very un happy with me, but it was my first time selling and honestly what would you think if you didn't see the money in your account yet the guys says he sent it to you? I went with my gut feeling. I couldn't apolligised enough to him. So here it is 30 days later and i still don't have my money and i talked to paypal 2 weeks ago. I still have yet to get a responce from paypal. They put in a request to transfer the money and i gave them all of my personal info. I am never using paypal again, for nothing at all. Im gonna call paypal again next week to see what the problem is. Its my fualt, but why would they put money into an old account that hasn't been used in a year??



How did the buyer get the address for your old account? Why have two accounts? 

PayPal doesn't arbitrarily decide which account the money goes into, it goes to the account that the buyer specifies.


IJ - Good luck getting any help from the USPS. Unless the amount is over $1000, the postal inspectors will take your report and do little more.



Bottom line - No system is perfect (and I abhor some pf PayPal's policies), but I don't know of a better service that is widely accepted.


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## RED-85-Z51 (Dec 25, 2006)

Saw looks like new man, good job!

As for cleaning parts in the dishwasher...

Think about what we have all been told to do after honing or boring an engine..
"Clean completely with warm water and soap, no sustitutes"

I bet I could put my small engines in our dishwasher...

I hate the scrubbing and crap with hot water and stuff after a rebuild..This would make life alot easier!

I usually rebuild 4-5 engines a year.

This year Ive rebuilt:
8hp Briggs
5hp Briggs
10hp Kohler..

But next year Ive got 1, maybe 2 Honda G200 engines, a 8hp Kohler, and lord only knows what else.

Anybody know if the heat off the burner would damage a small engine..?
Aluminum block, aluminum bore, and Steel bore.


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## ktoom (Dec 25, 2006)

I have 2 accounts cuz i couldn't access my old one. Every time i typed in the correct password, they said it wasn't. So i got frustrated and did feel like waiting on the phone to get it fixed. I figured i would just use my other email address (one at yahoo.com and one at road runner.) Now here's where they get you, paypal uses your email address to login into your account. Well guess what email address i was using for ebay???? the yahoo one and it just so happens to be the address of the paypal account i had trouble accessing. When i talked to paypal....FINALLY.. they said the money was in there.


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## bigbadbob (Dec 25, 2006)

The scammers have a very simple way of getting your paypal information. They send you a very good looking email asking for and account update. This email links you to an update site that looks to be paypal, looks very genuine. But its where they get your information from. I have had three of these, one way to see if its bogus is to put in a phoney email address and password if that gets you in further you know you have been had. Pay pal does not send out info requests, you just get caught up in the scam, easy to do. So be leary of any account update mail from paypal as it's more than likly a scam. 
Bob


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## blsnelling (Dec 26, 2006)

I've listed the 440 on eBay. I'm not sure what it's worth, but it should be somewhere between my reserve and my BIN. I didn't want to sell myself short with too low of a BIN. I didn't go into the origin of all the parts since that's irrevelant to the condition of the saw. Tradin Post


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## MikeInParadise (Dec 26, 2006)

*Am I the only one*



blsnelling said:


> I've listed the 440 on eBay. I'm not sure what it's worth, but it should be somewhere between my reserve and my BIN. I didn't want to sell myself short with too low of a BIN. I didn't go into the origin of all the parts since that's irrevelant to the condition of the saw. Tradin Post




Am I the only one who just thinks that this whole thing is in bad taste.

Guy buys a saw and complains that the saw is misrepresented....

Gets helped out tremendously by members here.

Turns around and try to sell the saw and in my mind 

MISREPRESENTS THE SAW ON EBAY!!!!



> FROM EBAY ADD: The crank, bearings, cylinder, and piston were all inspected and found to be in excellent condition. New piston rings were installed.



That is not at all true. The Cylinder and piston were crap, a complaint was filed, and used parts were put in, who knows how good the bearings an crank really are. The ad makes is sound like it just need rings. 

If I was buying this saw this and then read this thread, I personally would feel that this saw is misrepresented. 

Now maybe that is just me an you guys all feel differently but that is my opinion.


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## Haywire Haywood (Dec 26, 2006)

Ah, but the piston and rings that were crap are no longer on the saw. It HAS been totally rebuilt with good parts. What was, is no longer. I don't see a misrepresentation.

I do think it's a little rude to try to make money off of Ekka's generosity, but it's his saw and he can do what he wants with it. I'd feel a little slighted were I Ekka.

Ian


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## SawTroll (Dec 26, 2006)

MikeInParadise said:


> Am I the only one who just thinks that this whole thing is in bad taste. ...



+1, the bad taste is clearly there.....umpkin2:


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## Scooterbum (Dec 26, 2006)

+2, the bad taste is clearly there.....

This really has an ending that sucks!!!!
I was under the impression that he was a guy scraping his penny's to get a good saw.
Not someone doing it for a business.
Poor business decisions shouldn't even qualify for this caliber of help.
Again this ending sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Scooterbum (Dec 26, 2006)

+3, the bad taste is clearly there.....

This really has an ending that sucks!!!!
I was under the impression that he was a guy scraping his penny's to get a good saw.
Not someone doing it for a business.
Poor business decisions shouldn't even qualify for this caliber of help.
Again this ending sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Hard Knocks (Dec 26, 2006)

blsnelling said:


> I've listed the 440 on eBay. I'm not sure what it's worth, but it should be somewhere between my reserve and my BIN. I didn't want to sell myself short with too low of a BIN. I didn't go into the origin of all the parts since that's irrevelant to the condition of the saw. Tradin Post



+4 I can't believe what I just read! 

I guess we can't always have a happy ending! I hope that this does not sour the generosity of our members.


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## Madsaw (Dec 26, 2006)

+5
Was it not discussed sometime back about posting a link to a ebay auction and selling it at the same time on here. I think it went something like post it here wait a week or so no bites then a ebay link could be posted when you list it there. I just wonder what is going to happen when the original seller sees the list on ebay and then sends a link to paypal and demands his saw back. Thats going to bite some major backside.
My 2 cents
Bob


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## PA Plumber (Dec 26, 2006)

Possible solution. Pull the saw off ebay. List it here for a couple of weeks at the exact asking price, then, ebay. I'm pretty sure all parties involved knew this was a project to resell saw. Sure was a lot of generosity involved though.


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## 5555555 (Dec 26, 2006)

*Bad Idea*

+6 Also, how long are the mis-matched case halves going to maintain the seal? Stihl says you have to replace both sides as a pair. Lake even told the seller about it on this thread. I thought it was OK to try cobbling it together for your own saw. I don't think it's OK if your then going to re-sell it with the description, as written. The buyer will expect to get a good saw, not a cobbled together parts saw that looks great..... 

Jim


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## belgian (Dec 26, 2006)

Sorry bsnelling, but this is simply "not done". Really sad. 
Do you really want to be seen as a profiteer of Ekka's generosity?
It's your saw, but if you sell it, I hope Ekka is going to see a nice percentage of it.


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## Hard Knocks (Dec 26, 2006)

5555555 said:


> +6 Also, how long are the mis-matched case halves going to maintain the seal? Stihl says you have to replace both sides as a pair. Lake even told the seller about it on this thread. I thought it was OK to try cobbling it together for your own saw. I don't think it's OK if your then going to re-sell it with the description, as written. The buyer will expect to get a good saw, not a cobbled together parts saw that looks great.....
> 
> Jim



This entire thread has been about the lack of integrity and ethics on ebay. Here is irony for you. The thread titled "I've Been Screwed!!!" ends up with the buyer misrepresenting the same item. Members here felt sympathy and compassion for someone who was thought to have received a raw deal. I am saddened by the thought that he would even consider selling the saw. But...everyone has the right to do what they please with their belongings. 
Just my 2 cents!


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## SawTroll (Dec 26, 2006)

Hard Knocks said:


> This entire thread has been about the lack of integrity and ethics on ebay. Here is irony for you. The thread titled "I've Been Screwed!!!" ends up with the buyer misrepresenting the same item. Members here felt sympathy and compassion for someone who was thought to have received a raw deal. I am saddened by the thought that he would even consider selling the saw. But...everyone has the right to do what they please with their belongings.
> Just my 2 cents!





belgian said:


> Sorry bsnelling, but this is simply "not done". Really sad.
> Do you really want to be seen as a profiteer of Ekka's generosity?
> It's your saw, but if you sell it, I hope Ekka is going to see a nice percentage of it.



Well said!


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## jack-the-ripper (Dec 26, 2006)

Next time you may be hard pressed to find free parts from these fine gentlemen here on this site Snelling.


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## Buckeye (Dec 26, 2006)

What a sad turn of events. And just when it looked like this debacle was going to have a positive outcome. 

Profiteering from the sympathy/generosity of others is in very poor taste.


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## RiverRat2 (Dec 26, 2006)

*LLLLLLoser*

DITTO This really Sucks B Snelling I Really hate to say it this is a pretty freakin Cheesy *RAT*,,, manuver, another modern day Ebay Carpet Bagger so much for Ekka's Good will huH??? Sorry for the choke slam Ekka,,,,
I would have figured that saw had some sort of sentimental value :censored: 

Oh Yeah,,, Did you mention to the bidders that you used mismatched case's That's not right, 


This really sucks If You have a set of Burlys which i doubt,,, you need to fix your description @ the auction and split the Profit with Ekka

Just my .02


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## sawinredneck (Dec 26, 2006)

Guess I am getting used to it, the only thing that really bothered me was the mismatched case halves! But the more I think about it, yeah, that was a pretty crappy way to do Ekka!!! :angry2: 
Andy


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## blsnelling (Dec 26, 2006)

I'm am not here to take advantage of any one. I clearly stated in the beginning of this thread that my intention was to fix this saw up and sell it. Check out post #13, as well as #12. That was before Ekka ever got involved. I even discussed the selling of the extra parts from Ekka with Ekka himself. He had no porblem with it. It did cost me $88 just to ship the parts here. It's my intent to send Ekka something to express my thanks if I make anything from the saw. The truth is that I currently have about $500 in this saw, not counting my many hours of labor. If PayPal does what's right, it'll certainly be much less than that. If you assumed I was pinching pennies, you missed the point. I was wronged and you guys rallied to help make that wrong right. I said nothing to mislead you. I value the help and advise from this forum too much for what I'm getting labeled with here. 

How do you figure this saw has been misrepresented? These are not mixed case halves. Both cases from Ekka were thrown in the trash. I'm using the original cases. The crank, bearings, cylinder, and piston were from Ekka's saw. They are simply good used parts. How is that a misrepresentation? The original bad parts are gone. Why does that need mentioned in the description. The only thing really left is the case.

Seriously, what have I done wrong, and what would I have to do to make it right in your eyes? I have several saws right now that I want to sell. I intend to buy more and continue selling them. Might that not be a contribution to those on the forum here that don't have the tools or ability. I enjoy working on them and thought I had a good reputation going her. I'm truely sorry that I've offended anyone.


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## RiverRat2 (Dec 26, 2006)

Hard Knocks said:


> +4 I can't believe what I just read!
> 
> I guess we can't always have a happy ending! I hope that this does not sour the generosity of our members.



I guess that is what gets to me the worst, This place is like a family,,,, Ekka Reached out and that really impressed me,,, We have a personal atmosphere here that is a cut above EBay IMHO, Maybe He just didn't know better and I hope that is the case, but somebody here should have a shot @ it with a fair asking price and I woud think,,,,, There I go again,,, That Ekka should have first shot,,,,and if he gave him first shot then I will be the first to apologize for my MAD on!!!!! IVe already pulled ranking from this thread and I wonder if Ekka is even aware maybe he is away on Christmas Holiday,,, Merry Christmas Ekka!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## blsnelling (Dec 26, 2006)

I just PMd Ekka myself, to hopefully help clear this up. I'm willing to pull the eBay auction if I've truely done something unethical. But I mentioned in the beginning I bought it to repair and sell and am simply trying to do so.


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## RiverRat2 (Dec 26, 2006)

*Apology extended on the case halves, My Bad,*

But I still say it should run on the trading post here,,,, for a week or so or what ever the rules say, now that you have it listed on Ebay you are kind of locked into it unless you dont meet your reserve... Just seems like the good will here should garner favoritism for the AS site,,,,,,,,,,,Not Ebay,,,, Didn't you get Screwed there in the first Place...............

I'm Done,,,,, Sorry just a bad taste


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## Hard Knocks (Dec 26, 2006)

blsnelling said:


> I just PMd Ekka myself, to hopefully help clear this up. I'm willing to pull the eBay auction if I've truely done something unethical. But I mentioned in the beginning I bought it to repair and sell and am simply trying to do so.


You must decide for yourself weather you have done something unethical or not. We all offer opinions based on our own ethics and standards. If you feel that you are not doing anything wrong by 1. selling the saw. 2. describing it as you have done on ebay. than who are we to tell you to pull the auction.


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## blsnelling (Dec 26, 2006)

RiverRat2 said:


> I'm Done,,,,, Sorry just a bad taste


Don't just right me off like that, please. I'm trying to do what's right here. I'll go end the eBay auction and eat the listing fees if that's what you guys feel I should do.


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## blsnelling (Dec 26, 2006)

Hard Knocks said:


> You must decide for yourself weather you have done something unethical or not. We all offer opinions based on our own ethics and standards. If you feel that you are not doing anything wrong by 1. selling the saw. 2. describing it as you have done on ebay. than who are we to tell you to pull the auction.


I think most of you missed the part early on where I was up front that I bought this saw to sell it. I would understand had I not made that clear in the beginning. The point is, I do want your opinions. You tell me what you think I should do.

Again, I did NOT mix the case halves on this saw!!! I know better than that, thanks to you guys


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## blsnelling (Dec 26, 2006)

I hadn't looked at the auction this morning. It already has 8 different bidders. That makes it kind of hard to just end it, I'd think. Wow, have I got a mess here. I'm calling in damage control at this point, I'm afraid.


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## blsnelling (Dec 26, 2006)

I've added to the description of the saw, just to clear things up. If anyone on the forum here is interested in this saw, PM me and I'll end the auction early. Perhaps that's the biggest mistake I made, not just listing it here first. That's why I posted the eBay auction in the forum here. I didn't figure I was excluding anyone that way. Oh well.


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## PA Plumber (Dec 26, 2006)

I believe you are allowed to pull an auction item anytime you wish. I think you are still out the listing fees. Please check with ebay's rules on this. 

If Ekka has no problem with any of this, it may be best to leave it on ebay and let this thing be history. I still think it was a nice rebuild job & should have given site members first shot. As long as Ekka knew what was going on... 'Nough said.


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## blsnelling (Dec 26, 2006)

I just really wish people would have PMd me before taking this all public. I WILL do what I can to clear this all up. I'm just afraid my names mud now, and I value this forum.


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## Hard Knocks (Dec 26, 2006)

Not trying to preach...But, You could have indicated that the saw was reassembled with good used parts. This would have given full disclosure. I personally don't mind buying a piece of equipment with original matching parts in good shape that have worn normally with their counterparts. I personally would be less inclined to pay the same money for something that has been pieced together even if the equipment works as good as new. I would certainly feel like " I have been screwed" if I found out after the fact that this was the case. I am not saying that it is wrong to assemble a saw from various good used parts, we all have done it. As I posted before you did a very nice job with that saw and should be very proud of that.


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## Buckeye (Dec 26, 2006)

blsnelling said:


> I hadn't looked at the auction this morning. It already has 8 different bidders. That makes it kind of hard to just end it, I'd think.



Cancelling an eBay auction with bids is no different than ending one without activity. I'm not telling you what you should/shouldn't do, just pointing out the facts. 

I believe the truth of the matter is that you are reluctant to end the auction because you are seeing dollar signs. I hope that I'm wrong. Greed is an ugly thing.


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## RiverRat2 (Dec 26, 2006)

I must have missed that point about the re-selling, and i'm man enuff that I already apologized for the Case halves, I just figured the AS site would have presidence over EBay,,,, If no one *here* wants it,,,, since this is where *you *got the help to build it back to what it is,,,,, then yeah have @ ebay I understand about the investment thing, look at my Sig,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

I am of no athuority here and dont pretend to be I'm just a newbie anyway,,,,

Hey if Ekkas Cool with it and the moderators dont have a problem I guess I'm just a sucker for a lost cause successs story and I was just so proud of Ekka (and still am) for helpin you out when u were down singing the blues,,,, figured you cant always get the brotherhood & love you get here that we all have been screwed over on Ebay b 4 now can u????????????


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## rb_in_va (Dec 26, 2006)

blsnelling said:


> I've added to the description of the saw, just to clear things up. If anyone on the forum here is interested in this saw, PM me and I'll end the auction early. Perhaps that's the biggest mistake I made, not just listing it here first. That's why I posted the eBay auction in the forum here. I didn't figure I was excluding anyone that way. Oh well.



General practice in the past has been to list an item in the trading post, or on ebay, not both. But I don't think it's written in the rules anywhere, just an unspoken guideline. If Ekka is cool with the deal, then everyone else should just chill! But that's just me. And bsnelling, I greatly admire your ability to make a used saw look awesome!


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## blsnelling (Dec 26, 2006)

I'm inclined to just end the auction early. There are 8 guys that have bid on it. If it's anyone here on the forum, my appologies and you can still get it here. Besides, it's not anywhere near my reserve yet anyway.


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## blsnelling (Dec 26, 2006)

Buckeye said:


> I believe the truth of the matter is that you are reluctant to end the auction because you are seeing dollar signs. I hope that I'm wrong. Greed is an ugly thing.


No. I value you guys on the forum here more than that. I believe the only thing wrong I did here was to not list it here only for a while. Consider it done. The eBay auction has been ended. I was just trying to be efficient. Sorry, really.


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## 04ultra (Dec 26, 2006)

*WOW*opcorn: opcorn: opcorn: opcorn: 


.


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## blsnelling (Dec 26, 2006)

I've updated the saw in the Tradin Post.


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## blsnelling (Dec 26, 2006)

04ultra said:


> *WOW*opcorn: opcorn: opcorn: opcorn:
> 
> 
> .


You're eating popcorn and I'm eating anti-acid


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## manual (Dec 26, 2006)

04ultra said:


> *WOW*opcorn: opcorn: opcorn: opcorn:
> 
> 
> .


Wow is right, What I have learned in my life is when you help someone,
Don't complain about the out come.
your reward was to help out.


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## sawinredneck (Dec 26, 2006)

That is a valid point manual  

I by no means wanted you to end the auction, sorry about that!! I also misunderstood that the saw was purchased, and you posted on here, to resell it! My apoligies dor that 

Now the case half thing, I very well may have misunderstood you, but I thought the way you bought the saw it came with the old style caps and you wanted to swap out case halves to have the new style caps, am I wrong?

If I am, I again appoligize for my ignorance, it seems to have run rampant so far today!!!

Sorry, didn't mena to stir up a hornets nest!
Andy


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## rb_in_va (Dec 26, 2006)

sawinredneck said:


> Sorry, didn't mena to stir up a hornets nest!
> Andy



Yeah, way to go Andy!


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## blsnelling (Dec 26, 2006)

No, no, no. The saw was a MS 440 with the tooless caps to begin with. What your thinking of is the thread where I was trying to figure out what to do with the good case halves from Ekka's saws. I was informed that the halves are machined together, so I played around burning one a little:hmm3grin2orange: , and then threw them away. I'm not sorry for ending the eBay auction. I believe it was the right thing to do, even if no one here ends up buying the saw. It should have been posted here first. I was just trying to be too "efficient" and got the cart ahead of the horse. Lesson learned. Like I've mentioned several times, I enjoy working on these saws. I'd like to build a reuptation here that if you want a used saw that's built right and not thrown together, that I can provide that for you!


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## blsnelling (Dec 26, 2006)

Hard Knocks said:


> Not trying to preach...But, You could have indicated that the saw was reassembled with good used parts. This would have given full disclosure. I personally don't mind buying a piece of equipment with original matching parts in good shape that have worn normally with their counterparts. I personally would be less inclined to pay the same money for something that has been pieced together even if the equipment works as good as new. I would certainly feel like " I have been screwed" if I found out after the fact that this was the case. I am not saying that it is wrong to assemble a saw from various good used parts, we all have done it. As I posted before you did a very nice job with that saw and should be very proud of that.



The crank and bearings were pulled as a set from one of Ekka's saws. I'm not sure if the piston and cylinder came from the one I got the crank from or not, but they were a matching set pulled from one of the two saws as well.


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## Haywire Haywood (Dec 26, 2006)

I withdraw my comments. He apparently did make his intent clear from the beginning (post 13) and many folk, including me, just missed it.

my apologies,
Ian


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## Ekka (Dec 26, 2006)

Wow

I just caught up with the last few pages, thanks for the PM blsnelling.

I suppose I find it rather comforting that there's so many guys on this board with great ethics and a caring attitude. Even any negative posts have been born out of the right feelings.  

At no point did blsnelling deceive me or otherwise, he was very straight forward and accurate and if I could have young folks with his skills and passion for mechanical work I'd hire them. 

From my perspective those saw parts are useless to me. To try to sell them here would be a joke but to frieght them to the USA does cost considerable money and there's still a big *IF* they're any good or can be on sold. I still have an Echo 350T sitting there that's gonna be $50 to freight to the USA and no takers yet ... but if one of you did take it and made money out of it ... good on you.... then again if it turned out a lemon and you done ya $50 bad luck! Well, he took that risk and it paid off.

blsnelling put a lot of work into the saw, cleaning, painting and building. I dont think in the grand scheme of things he's _making money_ but he is satisfying himself and proving his worth at building saws.

To some of you who have followed the story you feel perhaps let down that this saw is going to be sold. He did say he will sell it early on. However that doesn't change the fact that he was ripped off and we helped out.

I still think it's a great thread and perhaps if anything what you as individuals have to decide prior to donating your services (posts, pics, vids, parts etc) is what they'll be used for ... and if you dont want to help some-one who is building for resale then dont contribute ... but many saw builders like blsnelling, klicky, NWCS do return the favour too .... what comes around goes around.

I hope this helps out, blsnelling's OK, and I really hope we all get along, heck it's 2007 soon and we are all getting older so why not wiser?


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## Scooterbum (Dec 26, 2006)

Your quite a man Ekka.I wish the world had more like you. Steve


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## Lakeside53 (Dec 26, 2006)

Quite the reading - end to end... 

I don't believe any wrong was done... and it will be a damn nice saw for someone to get.


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## blsnelling (Dec 27, 2006)

Ekka, once again, I think YOU are the shining light throughout this thread. I did the work, but YOU made it happen. Thanks so much for the kind words.


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## Indiana John (Dec 27, 2006)

*Bad Karma.......*

Brad, I'd have to agree that listing the saw on eBay was in poor taste. It's your saw, and you can certainly do as you please with it, but I feel it would have just been the "right" thing to do to offer it to the folks on this forum first. I really don't think there would have been near the fuss if you had done it that way. Not to mention that by listing the saw on eBay, you may have just shot yourself in the foot as far as getting your money back from Paypal. For your sake I hope not, but it might be just the ammunition the seller needs to get the refund denied.


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## SawTroll (Dec 27, 2006)

blsnelling said:


> No. I value you guys on the forum here more than that. I believe the only thing wrong I did here was to not list it here only for a while. Consider it done. The eBay auction has been ended. I was just trying to be efficient. Sorry, really.




All in all, I guess you are right.


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## lumberinspector (Dec 29, 2006)

WOW is right! To come back to this thread and see all that has gone on was a jaw dropping moment. Looks like things are getting back on track...Good to see. As a "newbie" to this site and to the saw building world I probably don't have much room to throw my .02 around but I can see the best of both points. 

Brad as I've said you have done a nice job and I will probably be looking to you (and the rest of you :biggrinbounce2: ) for advice, help etc. 

Ekka - Your post was surely the calming of the storm  

An early Happy New Year to you all


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## ddhlakebound (Dec 30, 2006)

Great roller coaster of a thread. Quality job on the saw, and Ekka is simply a first rate guy. 

A couple of thoughts I had through the thread, 

There is a way to leave negative feedback for a ripoff seller, without getting negged in retaliation. Its all about the timing. Not sure, but I think ebay will allow 60 days (check ebay for accurate info) for feedback to be left. Simply calculate the day and time of the feedback cutoff, and leave the negative a few hours before the deadline. Still possible to get retaliation negative, but they have a very narrow window to notice and respond. 

Ekka, reading of the destructive properties of palm acid, a solution of baking soda and water, sprayed onto the acid covered areas may neutralize some of the acid and somewhat delay the corrosion. Very cheap, quick to use. May be a bad idea though, the water could be as bad as the acid. 

I've had a bad experience of my own through paypal, ended up out $115. I use them as little as possible now, but just can't get completely away from using their service. 

Great read, wouldnt have even seen this thread if it wasnt linked from the thread where the saw is being sold.


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## Freakingstang (Dec 30, 2006)

ddhlakebound said:


> Great read, wouldnt have even seen this thread if it wasnt linked from the thread where the saw is being sold.



Don't think anyone linked it yet, so here is the outcome...


http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=41447&page=4


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## blsnelling (Dec 30, 2006)

Well, I'm going to have to shorten my signature. This MS 440 is now sold to.........drum roll........Patrick62. What an interesting thread, to say the least. Thanks to everyone and expecially to Ekka. Now it's just the wait to see how PayPal decides.


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## Trigger-Time (Dec 30, 2006)

blsnelling said:


> Well, I'm going to have to shorten my signature. This MS 440 is now sold to.........drum roll........Patrick62. What an interesting thread, to say the least. Thanks to everyone and expecially to Ekka. Now it's just the wait to see how PayPal decides.




    

Hope the Pay-Pal works out for you.


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## Unclez (Jan 22, 2007)

I usually try to avoid the auctions where the seller seems to "Overly" stress terms like - NO WARRANTY EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED. I DO NOT GURANTEE THE SAW IN ANYWAY, AS I AM NOT A CHAINSAW REPAIR EXPERT AT ALL. YOU ARE BUYING AS-IS, WHERE-IS.
He knew darn well what all was wrong with the saw and was just trying to cover his butt.


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## ol'homey (Jan 22, 2007)

Heard anything from Paypal yet?


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## blsnelling (Jan 22, 2007)

Matter of fact I have. They asked for a 3rd party evaluation of the saw and/or receipts of the parts or repairs. As you all know, I didn't buy most of the parts that needed replaced. Ekka gave them to me for the cost of the shipping. I did all of the repairs myself. However, my local dealer was willing to give me a written statement of the condition of the saw when I received it. Luckily I had kept the P&C with the needle bearings from the rod embedded in them. I also got copies of my invoices for the carb kit and rings that I bought from Baileys. The were kind enough to get together a PDF file for me about 4:30 Friday afternoon.

I received the email from PayPal on Friday requesting these documents. They stated that I had until this Friday, the 25th, in order to fax these documents to them. I could not fax them until this morning when I got to work, which I did. Guess what. PayPal denied the claim this morning and closed it before getting those documents. I did not know this when I faxed them. It was only later in the morning that I saw what they had done.

Fortunately, after 4 PM this afternoon, they reopened the claim after receiving the faxed documents and it will be 3-5 days for them to review the documents. I've still got my fingers crossed. It just ticks me off that they didn't even give me close to the amount of time they said they would to fax the documents to them. Lets all keep our fingers crossed. Maybe I'll still have good news later this week.


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## blsnelling (Jan 23, 2007)

PayPal denied the claim because the saw was repaired and thus could not be returned to the seller. I reminded them that I asked for the cost of used parts for the repair. The moral of the story is, avoid using PayPal if at all possible.


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## bytehoven (Jan 23, 2007)

You might have had similar trouble in any form of dispute resolution, having gone ahead and performed the level of upgrades to the saw that you did, before the matter was resolved.


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## Haywire Haywood (Jan 23, 2007)

I see the moral of the story as "Don't alter or repair something that is contested until the investigation is complete."  

Ian


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## blsnelling (Jan 23, 2007)

I realized that when I chose to go ahead with the repair and decided to take the risk. However, PayPal asked for documentation of the condition of the saw as I received it and for invoices of the repairs or parts. Why even ask for that documentation if you're going to deny the claim anyway? I took a know risk and lost. I'm just glad it's behind me.


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## rb_in_va (Jan 23, 2007)

Haywire Haywood said:


> I see the moral of the story as "Don't alter or repair something that is contested until the investigation is complete."
> 
> Ian



Yup. Can't blame this one on Paypal.


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## blsnelling (Jan 23, 2007)

rb_in_va said:


> Yup. Can't blame this one on Paypal.



read the above post.


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## rb_in_va (Jan 23, 2007)

blsnelling said:


> read the above post.



I don't know why they denied the claim, but you're statement about not using paypal is ridiculous. You should have waited the 30 days until the claim was resolved to work on the saw.


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## ktoom (Jan 23, 2007)

I think pay pal is horrible. U call them if u have a problem, then u get a person who barely speaks the English language. Then they say the problem will be fixed in 3 to 5 days.......YEA RIGHT!!!! I have a situation with payapl, where money got put into an old account that i don't have acess to anymore. I need the money to get transfurd to my current account. 4 times now, they said my money was going to be transfurd within 3 to 5 days.......well that was 2 weeks ago. Looks like im gonna have to call them AGAIN to see whats taking them so long. I have been trying to get the money transfurd for a month and a half now.......its a good amoount of money too.


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## blsnelling (Jan 23, 2007)

I have other reasons to be unhappy with PayPal. The frustrating thing here is that PayPal asked for documentation of the repair and then denied the claim because it was repaired. Makes no sense to me.


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## blsnelling (Jan 23, 2007)

One more thing. I don't want to forget the relationships I've built here because of this saw. Had I not repaired this saw, I would have never had the privelege of being blessed by Ekka with his donor saws. My emotions have run a roller coaster through the life of this thread. I choose to remember the good times and move on. Thanks again to everyone that contributed. Now, I've got to get back to work on the 036 Pro I'm rebuilding


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## PA Plumber (Jan 23, 2007)

I guess I might as well throw this out there.

I have had good luck on the Buyer's end of PayPal. Had a situation a while ago where the item was advertised as new and turned out it was pirated. Within 1 day of filing the claim, the seller had refunded my money, plus shipping. I hadn't even sent the item back yet. 

From the Seller's standpoint, Paypal in a pain in the backside. It irks me how much they charge. I only use them on small ticket stuff.


Back to the saw: I think this whole thread turned out okay. Lot's of live and learn in this one.


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## 2000ssm6 (Jan 23, 2007)

Sorry to hear this happen to you. I just bought a "what seems to be nice" 044 off ebay...we will see.
How is the old 036 doing?


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## blsnelling (Jan 23, 2007)

The 036 is goin good. I just installed new crank bearings. I came in the house to check the case bolt torque spec.


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## 2000ssm6 (Jan 23, 2007)

Cool, I'm glad to hear it is a good saw!!


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## Buckeye (Jan 23, 2007)

rb_in_va said:


> I don't know why they denied the claim, but you're statement about not using paypal is ridiculous. You should have waited the 30 days until the claim was resolved to work on the saw.



+1

I guess that personal accountability is a thing of the past. With the course of action blsnelling took, it's hard to lay the blame on PayPal .


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## rb_in_va (Jan 23, 2007)

blsnelling said:


> The frustrating thing here is that PayPal asked for documentation of the repair and then denied the claim because it was repaired. Makes no sense to me.



Sounds to me like you provided them with all the evidence they needed to deny the claim.


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## ol'homey (Jan 23, 2007)

Paypal needed to document that you repaired it so they could deny the claim. 
Paypal is great as long as you fund the purchase THROUGH A CREDIT CARD. If it's not right you can put it back in the box and ship it back. Dispute the charge with your credit card and send a copy of the shipping invoice to prove you sent the item back. The credit card co. will credit your acct. If the seller accepts the item back the credit will be permanent. If the seller rejects the return the burden of proof will be on HIM as to why he's right and you are wrong. If he loses you may wind up keeping both the credit and the item. Once they find in your favor the credit becomes permanent and the card co is done. If you have the item back in your possession because he rejected the return and he now wants it back because the credit card decided in your favor he will have to work out a deal with you. Follow the $ and remember your credit card co. is paid by YOU and works for YOU. Paypal gets paid by the SELLER and works for the SELLER. Why do you think Paypal will do anything they can to keep you from using a credit card to fund a payment? Because charge backs from credit cards keep both the seller and PAYPAL from getting paid.


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## Marc1 (Jan 24, 2007)

blsnelling, you bought a lemon that was misrepresented on e-bay and tried to get your money back using paypal. 

However in the meantime, you got your money back in kind.

You should have given your paypal claim away. 
You can't have a cake and eat it too.
Or...you should dispense the same kindness that was used on you....or....don't judge so you will not be judged...and many more on that line.

Only in my opinion of course.


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## belgian (Jan 24, 2007)

Marc1 said:


> blsnelling, you bought a lemon that was misrepresented on e-bay and tried to get your money back using paypal.
> 
> However in the meantime, you got your money back in kind.
> 
> ...



That's quite a ridiculous statement. It's not because the buyer has found a way to limit his loss on that saw, that the seller should get away for comitting obvious fraude with that sale. The evidence for fraud was clear. 

I agree however that blsnelling should have waited for a decision of Paypal before starting to work on the saw, as a possible deal could have implied returning the goods to the buyer.

Paypal was pretty smart to use the repair excuse to deny the claim, but it was to be expected. 
Be careful on ebay !


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## SawWitch (Jan 24, 2007)

blsnelling said:


> OUCH! I bought this MS 440 of eBay and got it today. LINK All it was supposed to need was a coil and a starter rope, per a dealer's inspection. It's also only supposed to be two years old. Check out what I got.
> 
> I put a different coil in it, fixed the starter and tried to start it. It tried to fire but would not start. The enging was very noisy when I pulled the starter rope. I finally removed the muffler and found that the piston is extremely scored. I then removed the cylinder to find that it is ruined as well as the crank. There are deep gouges in the cylinder wall. The connecting rod bearing cage on the crank is all busted up. This is what was causing all the noise. This saw is toast. You can see that the saw has been apart before. The cylinder has been honed and the piston sanded. You can also see pieces of old rings embedded in the cylinder head and piston top. These did not come from the piston in the saw. It's rings are not broken.
> 
> ...



Seems and looks very bad, not acceptable...:deadhorse: :bang: 

I know this is an old case, just wanted to express my wiew.....

I am very sceptical about buying used stuff, especially from private persons.


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## RiverRat2 (Jan 24, 2007)

belgian said:


> That's quite a ridiculous statement. It's not because the buyer has found a way to limit his loss on that saw, that the seller should get away for comitting obvious fraude with that sale. The evidence for fraud was clear.
> 
> I agree however that blsnelling should have waited for a decision of Paypal before starting to work on the saw, as a possible deal could have implied returning the goods to the buyer.
> 
> ...




:deadhorse: opcorn:


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## 04ultra (Mar 15, 2008)

Hmmmmm............opcorn: opcorn:


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## ciscoguy01 (Mar 15, 2008)

*Oh yes*



Just Mow said:


> psssssssssst,
> you got screwed
> 
> Reason number 204I on why not to buy a chainsaw on line.



Dude, your sooooo right... I still am trying to figure out what in the heck people are still buying saws online for? Specially people that have some idea about saws. How do you feel bad for somebody that watches these same scams time and time again and still they take a chance. I don't get it. cold day before i buy a dammed thing off ebay, and I can't feel bad for the person that never saw the saw run or the person that said x was all it needed. Another one is born every few seconds right??? hehehehehehehee

dumba55

 

I hate to be cold, but come one... Really, how many people have had the same thing happen??? And yet people are still surprised. $20billion/yr are stolen online yet people are still surprised when they lose money online. Why are people so stupid. Did you know Disney took out King Arthurs theme park to put in Harry Potter's because nobody knew who he was? People are getting dumber and dumber as the days go by... How can people not know who King Arthur is??? OMFG... Idiots


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## spacemule (Mar 15, 2008)

ciscoguy01 said:


> Dude, your sooooo right... I still am trying to figure out what in the heck people are still buying saws online for? Specially people that have some idea about saws. How do you feel bad for somebody that watches these same scams time and time again and still they take a chance. I don't get it. cold day before i buy a dammed thing off ebay, and I can't feel bad for the person that never saw the saw run or the person that said x was all it needed. Another one is born every few seconds right??? hehehehehehehee
> 
> dumba55
> 
> ...


I've never been scammed buying anything online. Follow a few precautions and trust your gut and you'll usually do all right. Still, since it's site unseen/buyer unseen, only bid enough to where you won't get hurt if you lose everything. Anything online is a chance, and everyone should bid accordingly. Off the top of my head, I'd guess I've bought and sold $10,000 of stuff through Ebay and online stores in the last 4 years. At least I don't feel stupid.


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## ciscoguy01 (Mar 15, 2008)

*Dang*

I Hate being cold, but I've seen tons of people every day that say the same things. There ain't a person on earth that'd make me wager a nickel online w/out seeing something in person... 

 opcorn:


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## spacemule (Mar 15, 2008)

ciscoguy01 said:


> I Hate being cold, but I've seen tons of people every day that say the same things. There ain't a person on earth that'd make me wager a nickel online w/out seeing something in person...
> 
> opcorn:



For every post you see about getting screwed, there's at least a dozen more about getting a good deal. Also, people get screwed in person as well. At least online, you've got a buying history and record from other buyers you can look at. In person, you don't have anything but what the guy's telling you and showing you.


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## ciscoguy01 (Mar 15, 2008)

*Yep*



spacemule said:


> For every post you see about getting screwed, there's at least a dozen more about getting a good deal. Also, people get screwed in person as well. At least online, you've got a buying history and record from other buyers you can look at. In person, you don't have anything but what the guy's telling you and showing you.



And how can I argue with that brotha???

Pulling the muffler cover to see a scored p/c and pulling the starter cable would solve a couple of those problem though now wouldn't it??? hehehehehehe

 

I do see what your saying though bro. It's just NOT for me...opcorn:


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## spacemule (Mar 15, 2008)

ciscoguy01 said:


> And how can I argue with that brotha???
> 
> Pulling the muffler cover to see a scored p/c and pulling the starter cable would solve a couple of those problem though now wouldn't it??? hehehehehehe
> 
> ...



I can see your point of view. I used to think the same thing. Then I started buying a few things and liked it.


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## cmetalbend (Mar 15, 2008)

blsnelling said:


> OUCH! I bought this MS 440 of eBay and got it today. LINK All it was supposed to need was a coil and a starter rope, per a dealer's inspection. It's also only supposed to be two years old. Check out what I got.
> 
> I put a different coil in it, fixed the starter and tried to start it. It tried to fire but would not start. The enging was very noisy when I pulled the starter rope. I finally removed the muffler and found that the piston is extremely scored. I then removed the cylinder to find that it is ruined as well as the crank. There are deep gouges in the cylinder wall. The connecting rod bearing cage on the crank is all busted up. This is what was causing all the noise. This saw is toast. You can see that the saw has been apart before. The cylinder has been honed and the piston sanded. You can also see pieces of old rings embedded in the cylinder head and piston top. These did not come from the piston in the saw. It's rings are not broken.
> 
> ...


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## wanab (Mar 15, 2008)

saw and fleabay are like @holes and alcohol, they dont mix.


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## blsnelling (Mar 15, 2008)

ciscoguy01 said:


> Dude, your sooooo right... I still am trying to figure out what in the heck people are still buying saws online for? Specially people that have some idea about saws. How do you feel bad for somebody that watches these same scams time and time again and still they take a chance. I don't get it. cold day before i buy a dammed thing off ebay, and I can't feel bad for the person that never saw the saw run or the person that said x was all it needed. Another one is born every few seconds right??? hehehehehehehee
> 
> dumba55
> 
> ...



I'm going to do my best not to participate in the mud slinging that some of you are obviously engaged in. I will try to answer your question. It's plain and simple. I have no were else to buy my saws. I've been on eBay for probably 10 years now. Check my feedback. I know how the game works. I do my shopping, ask a few questions, check out the replies, and do my best to hedge my bets. Every now and then it doesn't work. In this case, it appears that all it cost me is a little time and aggrivation. Not one harsh word has even been spoken between me and the seller. The saw is currently all back together and in the box ready to go back. If you want to sling mud and call people dumb a55es, then why don't you provide a solution along with your mud. There no benefit in behaving that way. I think I've been here long enough to say I've earned more respect than that. Lighten up dude. Peace out.


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## kevin j (Mar 15, 2008)

lost my reply before it took....

brad: good response. I've seen enough of your projects here to gauge your work (or addictions) are top quality.

ebay has its down side, but also provides a soucre of connections to obscure stuff I would never ever see on a local agarage sale.its always a risk, but so is life in generall...

k


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## scotclayshooter (Mar 15, 2008)

blsnelling said:


> I'm going to do my best not to participate in the mud slinging that some of you are obviously engaged in. I will try to answer your question. It's plain and simple. I have no were else to buy my saws. I've been on eBay for probably 10 years now. Check my feedback. I know how the game works. I do my shopping, ask a few questions, check out the replies, and do my best to hedge my bets. Every now and then it doesn't work. In this case, it appears that all it cost me is a little time and aggrivation. Not one harsh word has even been spoken between me and the seller. The saw is currently all back together and in the box ready to go back. If you want to sling mud and call people dumb a55es, then why don't you provide a solution along with your mud. There no benefit in behaving that way. I think I've been here long enough to say I've earned more respect than that. Lighten up dude. Peace out.



Hi Brad you have had some decent saws from ebay and im the same the 025 just needed the carb set the 036 a good carb clean and tune up!
The ms280 i have has a little idle problem (it idles fine when your holding it but stalls if i set it on the concrete?) and wont be getting sold until its running perfect, And im sure there will be pics of the compression tester and through the exhaust port, I want to keep my 100% 
Im sure some people just find a saw thats not been used in years and dont know its history or anything about saws, And shove it up for sale genuinly thinking its going to be ok.
I would think if i was going to sell a real scrapper and try to pass it off as good i wouldnt put it down as accepting paypal


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## Hugenpoet (Mar 15, 2008)

blsnelling said:


> I'm going to do my best not to participate in the mud slinging that some of you are obviously engaged in. I will try to answer your question. It's plain and simple. I have no were else to buy my saws. I've been on eBay for probably 10 years now. Check my feedback. I know how the game works. I do my shopping, ask a few questions, check out the replies, and do my best to hedge my bets. Every now and then it doesn't work. In this case, it appears that all it cost me is a little time and aggrivation. Not one harsh word has even been spoken between me and the seller. The saw is currently all back together and in the box ready to go back. If you want to sling mud and call people dumb a55es, then why don't you provide a solution along with your mud. There no benefit in behaving that way. I think I've been here long enough to say I've earned more respect than that. Lighten up dude. Peace out.



Very good response. You sound to me like a guy who always "stands his round" and trys to walks the high road.


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## Dok (Mar 15, 2008)

In defense of Brad, this thread started in 2006 and he says this was his first used saw purchase after finding this site and catching the 'bug. I can tell from his posts he is much wiser today :hmm3grin2orange: 
Dok (another Brad)


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## 04ultra (Mar 15, 2008)

Ebay is a great place.......It is also a *BUYER BEWARE* ...If the saw has *damage* or has *needs work* or *doesn't run* your buying a parts saw.......Sometimes you get lucky and most times you get burnt....Buying saws to rebuild off ebay is ok in some cases .......If it has damage your taking a gamble......You know the risk .....If your not willing to deal with the risk dont bid....... Seeing the saws or parts in person is always the best ....Most people post pictures that make the product look the best for the sale....There are alot of people that put new plastic on an old worn out saw to make it look great for better money .....Some even paint the cases and make it look pretty and than leave the old discolored handle on it....That would set off a flag to me if I were bidding....



*"Gambling is what it is"* You know the risks when you place that bid..... 


.


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## Zodiac45 (Mar 15, 2008)

04ultra said:


> *"Gambling is what it is"* You know the risks when you place that bid..... .



+1 Life is full of risk, we all take some every day. All one can do is limit and do as much homework as can. I always ask some pointed questions if I'm in doubt and the answers are part of the decision making process. I've bought 2 of the 3 best saws I own on e-bay. Can't say I'll never get screwed, but I can say I'll never screw somebody else. Other than that, it is what it is.


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## spacemule (Mar 15, 2008)

Actually, ebay auctions are what led me to this place. I dealt quite a few times with Jeff Sekema, (spelling?) saw a lot of Gypo Logger's auctions, and Dozer Dan used to have a lot of saws on Ebay. For the most part, people are honest on Ebay. There's always some rubes, but that's the same for anything in life.


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## HUSKYMAN (Mar 15, 2008)

I bought my 670 and 920 off eBay from Dozerdan, both have been great saws. I just bought my 262XP off eBay, great so far, especially considering how it looked when I got it. 

I bought a 009 once and it had a bad fuel line, had to fix that but the seller gave me a refund for the cost. I have also bought a 4hp Evinrude outboard, and a 1987 Grand National off eBay in Kentucky. 98% of my transactions have been positive.


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## Jacob J. (Mar 15, 2008)

ciscoguy01 said:


> $20billion/yr are stolen online



Do you mind citing where you got that figure? Seems a little unrealistic to me...


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## Bowtie (Mar 15, 2008)

Jacob J. said:


> Do you mind citing where you got that figure? Seems a little unrealistic to me...



87.26% of all statistics are made up right on the spot.....:hmm3grin2orange:


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## 2000ssm6 (Mar 15, 2008)

*Nice!!*



HUSKYMAN said:


> I 1987 Grand National off eBay in Kentucky.



Match your good taste in cars to your saws:hmm3grin2orange: 

Stihl that is!


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## sawinredneck (Mar 15, 2008)

Bowtie said:


> 87.26% of all statistics are made up right on the spot.....:hmm3grin2orange:



Now that rightthere is funny:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


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## blsnelling (Mar 15, 2008)

Ultra04, I consider you a friend. In the beginning it was you that was so gracious to provide me with many IPLs. Perhaps I should hold you accountable for this crazy disease I have 

I will be the first to admit that you're taking a risk when you buy anything on eBay. It's just the nature of buying and paying for things sight unseen. In the case of this MS660, the biggest mistake I made was buying from a brand new eBayer with 0 feedback. But then again, that's part of the gamble. I know others may shy away from an item like that and not drive the price as high. He seems like a super nice guy. We are in the process now of rectifying the situation. I can guarantee you that he will be much more careful the next time he describes an item for sale. He's worried about his feedback and reputation and doesn't want to get started on the wrong foot. I told him that there will be no negative feedback with the way he's handling the situation right now.

Someone here pointed out that the engine shroud was broken. I pointed that out to the seller and asked if anything else was broken or cracked. His reply was "no there should not be any other broken parts just those 2 places, I never never even noticed the engine shroud broke, let me Know if you see anything else, cylinder is OK THANKS". I sent perhaps 3 or 4 messages and always got a reply. These are some of the things I do to help me guage the reliablilty of a seller, especially if their feedback is low. Another thing you want to do is always pay with PayPal using a credit card. If you do get a bad item like I just did, document it with pictures and try to resolve it with the seller. Be cordial as long as you can. If that doesn't work, file a claim with PayPal. DO NOT make any repairs to the saw. PayPal will likely require you to return the saw to the seller if you hope to get your money back. This MS660 is all back together and in the box ready to be returned.


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## windthrown (Mar 15, 2008)

Buying any saws on Ebay is a risk, and why I only buy PARTS for saws on Ebay now. Been burned too many times, and seen too many others burned on Ebay buying saws. Just the other day another insto-Husky and Stihl saw shop was closed on Ebay. Zero feedback seller. Some guy selling (supposedly) in Budapest. No longer... Ebay shut him down. After he sold 8 saws. I wonder how many of those 8 got burned? :monkey: 

A saw in hand is worth 10 on Ebay.


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## windthrown (Mar 15, 2008)

ol'homey said:


> Paypal gets paid by the SELLER and works for the SELLER. Why do you think Paypal will do anything they can to keep you from using a credit card to fund a payment? Because charge backs from credit cards keep both the seller and PAYPAL from getting paid.



I have gotten 2 refunds fron Paypal with 2 disputes I filed, as the BUYER. One was a crap saw, and the other was a non-received item. I also 'won' another bad saw that Paypal sided with me on (the 210 Saw from Hell, that led to several long and emotional threads on AS that were later pulled), but I had already fixed it and the seller was hostile. So I kept it AS A REMINDER NEVER, EVER TO BUY A WORKING SAW ON EBAY AGAIN. So far, it has worked! 

The Paypal dispute process is slow and a PITB. However, they can and will side with the buyer. Even if the item is listed on Ebay as ABSOLUTELY NO RETURNS, if they accept Paypal for payment, they have to accept returns of items that are not as described. I use a CC on Paypal now for all purchases. Paypal is fairly suspect as a "bank" anyway. The skim is high for money transfers into my PP account too. They certainly do not want to wind up with the bill for a product either. They are owned by Ebay now though. They used to be better when they were on their own. I would rather avoid them, but 99% of my sales on Ebay are paid with Paypal these days. So its parts saws and saw parts for me only on Ebay. Dunno why saws are so bad there, I have never been burned on anything else on Ebay.


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## sawinredneck (Mar 15, 2008)

blsnelling said:


> Ultra04, I consider you a friend. In the beginning it was you that was so gracious to provide me with many IPLs. Perhaps I should hold you accountable for this crazy disease I have




Now it's all you're fault!!! HA, at last the truth comes out, and the truth shall set you free!!!!!!


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## Fish (Mar 15, 2008)

I sell a lot on E-bay, and prefer parting them out, or selling as "parts
only", as a good running saw, is very subjective. I sold a little
McCollugh a few weeks ago, that started and ran pretty good, but was
one of those factory reconditioned jobs. So in the add, I only stated
that the saw would start with a squirt of gas in the carb then die. And it
was for parts only, and as is. Before boxing it up to ship, I started and
ran it out of fuel. It idled for 10 minutes. I did not want to risk selling it as a good running saw,
and have problems, but that is me.


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## Former Saw Builder (Mar 15, 2008)

*link*

Your eBay link no longer works can you PM me the seller user ID I don't want to buy anything from that [email protected]<E by mistake.... Thanks


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## Bowtie (Mar 15, 2008)

EdRitchey said:


> Your eBay link no longer works can you PM me the seller user ID I don't want to buy anything from that [email protected]<E by mistake.... Thanks



+1 same here, I dont wanna have to drive to where he is to "settle" a dispute. But Im sick enough of getting screwed that I just may do it.


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## 04ultra (Mar 15, 2008)

blsnelling said:


> Ultra04, I consider you a friend. In the beginning it was you that was so gracious to provide me with many IPLs. Perhaps I should hold you accountable for this
> I have





*Damn glad I dont have this crazy disease!!!!*


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## Freakingstang (Mar 15, 2008)

ya know, I buy and sell on ebay. I have good feedback and am as honest as I can be when listing stuff.

With that said, there are many people that aren't as honest, or just don't know what they are selling. They will watch other items going for big dollars and think "hey I got one of them out in the garage".

I buy stuff on ebay, but to buy a project saw for a lot of money to fix up and then ultimately sell off for a profit isn't gonna happen. The price of stuff seems way to high to make a profit. 

now, when you are buying a parts saw on ebay, that seems to be the end all title for listing crap saws. You gotta take a look at stuff super close and bid accordingly and expect the worst. I mean you could get a deal on a parts saw every now and then, but over 3 bills for one??? c'mon.


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## Bowtie (Mar 15, 2008)

Freakingstang said:


> ya know, I buy and sell on ebay. I have good feedback and am as honest as I can be when listing stuff.
> 
> With that said, there are many people that aren't as honest, or just don't know what they are selling. They will watch other items going for big dollars and think "hey I got one of them out in the garage".
> 
> ...



+10


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## windthrown (Mar 15, 2008)

Freakingstang said:


> now, when you are buying a parts saw on ebay, that seems to be the end all title for listing crap saws. You gotta take a look at stuff super close and bid accordingly and expect the worst. I mean you could get a deal on a parts saw every now and then, but over 3 bills for one??? c'mon.



Well, I have not really seen much difference in saws I have bought on Ebay, either listed as BUSTED PARTS SAW or GREAT FANTASTIC SAW. Both are typically beaters with serious problems. Chainsaws are generally abused pretty bad by most people. So I stick to buying parts saws there... and not for 3 bills. No way... got a trashed 025 for $30. Parts to me were worth over $100. But those are hard to find and pretty rare. The guy listed it by the part number, and not the model number, and it was poorly described.


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