# Herbicide surfactant ???



## Sawdust7 (Apr 23, 2006)

Hope I'm in the right topic here. Haven't posted in quite awhile and the site has changed a bit. Anyway, I am getting ready to kill off a couple of acres of blackberry bush that has taken over my hay meadow and am trying to locate a source for surfactant to add to my Roundup Classic. I would like to find it locally if I can.(Houston Metro area) Would anybody have any leads I could follow? Any help would be appreciated. 
Thanks, Frank in Humble TX


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## Nickrosis (Apr 24, 2006)

Any kind of surfactant will do.


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## sawn_penn (Apr 24, 2006)

In a pinch, I've used detergent from under the kitchen sink...


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## Steve-Maine (Apr 24, 2006)

I just retired from over 45 years doing adult mosquito control. we used a Loveland Product something 700 or 7000. We could spray and if it dried which took about 10 minutes, it wouldn't wash off. Have always used some type of sticker-spreader, well worth the money. good Luck


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## Sawdust7 (Apr 24, 2006)

Thanks ya'll for all the fast responses and tips. Sawn, a friend of mine suggested dish detergent but wasn't sure if it would actually suffice. After I read your reply I grinned and thought, "Darn, it does work" and it is readily available. I guess a 16oz bottle or so should handle 50 gallons???
I also like Steves suggestion for the Loveland stuff since it won't wash off. I will research into it and see if it is available locally. I want to get the most for my efforts as Roundup doesn't come cheap. I am thinking of going with a one percent solution and maybe add some cheaper stuff like maybe PasturePro or Hi-Dep to give it that added punch. . I did read the stats on Hi-Dep and it can be added to Roundup but the PasturePro had no statement as such. Any thoughts on this?
Thanks again for all the input. I'll let ya'll know of any success.
Frank in Humble Texas


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## sawn_penn (Apr 25, 2006)

You can buy generic versions of roundup for a lot less...


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## Steve-Maine (Apr 25, 2006)

Make sure if you buy a generic version of Roundup that it is the same strength. We have had salesman called with a generic version atleast 50% cheaper than Roundup but only about 25% the strength of Roundup. So it was no great deal. Good Luck


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## Urban Forester (Apr 25, 2006)

Loveland makes a product I use on lawns called 'Activator 90' it's a non-ionic surfactant. It's available through UAP (United Agricultural Products) aka. Verdicon.


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## Sawdust7 (Apr 25, 2006)

I found UAP and their local source here. Well, maybe a source, I haven't called them yet so I hope they don't ask how many railcars of the stuff I want to order.  In other words, I don't know if they welcome walk-ins or are a regional distributorship. I was impressed with the "Activator 90" and also very curious about the "Attach" they have also. (Attach is a non-ionic spreader sticker)
I have come to the conclusion though that I am going to need more amunition than I have on hand. I am heeding the "generic" advice $$$. Hmmph, and I just *thought *I knew something about herbicides ??? :bang: I reckon I should have been hanging around here more often.


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## Steve-Maine (Apr 26, 2006)

We have bought from UAP for quite a few years until retirement. Very nice people to deal with up here. We used about 120 gallons of Talsar a year on mosquitoes and they would get in the whole 120 gallons and reserve it so we could buy a little bit at a time. They also deliver right to the shop, usually the next day as their wharehouse was about 40 miles away. Good Luck


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## Nickrosis (Apr 26, 2006)

I would not drop below 2% for the glyphosate concentration! My usual MO is to mix 2% Touchdown with 2-4% Scythe for the faster burndown.

I'm treating garlic mustard now, and a glyphosate-only spray won't make much of a difference since there's very little being translocated to the roots as the roots are pumping the stored sugars out.

Actually, in fall, I think you could do damage with a 1% solution, but otherwise it usually justs stunts growth (which may be okay with you). They call that chemical mowing on the label.


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## Sawdust7 (Apr 27, 2006)

Hey Steve, I had to read your post twice about the mosquitoes in Maine. I didn't think ya'll had them that far up. I thought all mosquitoes lived in Texas. LOL I called the local UAP rep here in the Houston area and as you said, they are very friendly, helpful and informative. He suggested I go with a selective herbicide if I wanted to spare the grass, which I do. I had thought of selective but didn't know if there was one that would knock out the blackberry and not injure the grass. I will be going over to meet with him to give him the details of my forage plus take some pics I put on disk. I have a friend who is licensed and he is going to go with me as we are going to need an active ingredient of 2-4-D . I mentioned this forum to him and how much help you all have been. Maybe he will tune in. After reading Nickrosis last post describing plant characteristics I realize that I still need to research-research and research more. 
Thank you all for all of the helpful input. Frank


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## Elmore (May 1, 2006)

I recommend a methylated seed oil. I use Scoil at the 1% rate and have been experimenting with lower rates say 1 oz glyphosate plus 1 oz Scoil, per gallon. It works very well. The last time, I sprayed out a backpack of three gallons mixed with 2 oz Roundup and 2 oz of Scoil (methylated seed oil).

AGSCO/Scoil :
http://www.agscoinc.com/

http://www.herbicide-adjuvants.com/intro-soybean-based-adjuvants.htm


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## Elmore (May 2, 2006)

Elmore said:


> I recommend a methylated seed oil. I use Scoil at the 1% rate and have been experimenting with lower rates say 1 oz glyphosate plus 1 oz Scoil, per gallon. It works very well. The last time, I sprayed out a backpack of three gallons mixed with 2 oz Roundup and 2 oz of Scoil (methylated seed oil).
> 
> AGSCO/Scoil :
> http://www.agscoinc.com/
> ...



Make sure your boots are chemical resistant or...


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## Elmore (May 2, 2006)

Late last week I sprayed out a combonation Round Up 1% plus Surfate 1% and am seeing some good results. Surfate™is a premium blend of ammonium sulfate and a new generation nonionic surfactantdesigned to optimize glyphosate (Mad Dog) and other herbicide activity.

AGSCO/Surfate :
http://www.agscoinc.com/

http://www.ext.nodak.edu/extpubs/plantsci/weeds/w253/w253g01.htm


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## Sawdust7 (May 2, 2006)

Sorry for not getting back Elmore, I've been burning the late night oil putting the finishing touches on my "Homegrown" boom sprayer. When your ranchin', improvision (I think that's a word???) is sometimes the only option. Thanks for the links and I will check them out. I am meeting Friday with the local UAP rep and taking photos of my field to help him prescribe what will be the best route for me to take. I guess I'm hoping for some miracle cure. I will keep ya'll posted. Thanks, Frank in Humble Texas 

PS. Just looked at them boots, maybe I'll run down the road to NASA and see if I can borrow a space suit. LOL That's some potent stuff.


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## Elmore (May 2, 2006)

Sawdust7 said:


> PS. Just looked at them boots, maybe I'll run down the road to NASA and see if I can borrow a space suit. LOL That's some potent stuff.



A good pair of Red Wings will hold up fine.


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## Sawdust7 (Jun 2, 2006)

*Herbicide update*

Well, here's where I'm at. . .

Got some Grazon P+D, surfactant and a dye from UAP. They were very helpful and knowledgeable. 

I am going to spray tomorrow (Saturday) as the conditions are supposed to be perfect for it. No rain, 1 mph winds by noon and the data sheet recommended late May/early June for spraying plus, I will bale two weeks after so as to remove as many seeds as possible before they drop. The two weeks to bale was recommended by the guys at UAP and it makes sense to me. I will post back with results. Once I conquer the blackberry, I'm going to go after the Chinese Tallow. Am also considering trying to get my own applicators license as it seems it would be worth my while since there is a lot here that I need to do. 
You all have been an invaluable source of information. Frank in Humble Texas


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## BlueRidgeMark (Jun 3, 2006)

Elmore said:


> Make sure your boots are chemical resistant or...




:jawdrop: 

Elmore, was that from the glyphosate or the Scoil?


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## BlueRidgeMark (Jun 3, 2006)

Sawdust7 said:


> Hey Steve, I had to read your post twice about the mosquitoes in Maine. I didn't think ya'll had them that far up. I thought all mosquitoes lived in Texas.




Sawdust, you ought to go to Minnesota or Ontario if you want to see mosquitoes. There is not a single mosquito in either place - they are all married and have LARGE families! Many weigh a pound, and they sit on the trees and bark!


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## Elmore (Jun 4, 2006)

BlueRidgeMark said:


> :jawdrop:
> 
> Elmore, was that from the glyphosate or the Scoil?




Scoil


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