# Christmas Wraptoring



## Rickytree (Dec 24, 2010)

Ordered the Wraptor and think that it's going to change the way I feel about big climbs. At first the price kinda made me little leery but with some research I felt that the price is actually reasonable. Production and my outlook on large jobs with high climbs is going to be immeasurable. I talked with Paul Cox and he stated that the owners of the unit will never look back. Any owners out there?


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## lxt (Dec 24, 2010)

Thats a pricey gadget!! hopefully it will pay for itself????



LXT.........


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## ropensaddle (Dec 24, 2010)

TV and JPS have them I want one but am trying to survive at present. I think if you have the money and workload it would be invaluable in wear on you body and increase production.


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 24, 2010)

Probably great for old timer's, just a ride for the young guy's. 
Jeff


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## treevet (Dec 24, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> Probably great for old timer's, just a ride for the young guy's.
> Jeff



That makes absolutely no sense.:monkey:

This is the single biggest innovation since dependable climbing chainsaws. If you knock it you just can't afford or too cheap to buy one for your climber/s. Every perspective you previously had about a big free climbing job changes. Young climber or old climber. Nothing is lost and everything is enhanced.

Simple as that. It is the SMART choice.

$2500. I have made that in one half day with a 2 man crew before.


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## Rickytree (Dec 24, 2010)

TreeVet you gots all the toys!! I can see how you got $2500 in 4 hours or maybe 6, don't know how long you guys go for. I song came to mind when I checked out your site. Jealous Guy by the late Great John Lennon(RIP). The guy at the end of the splitter looked to be needing something else to do. I worked on a chicken processing line and I don't really know if it was all legal but man those Orientals can work ya! I didn't have time to scratch my nose.


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## treevet (Dec 24, 2010)

Rickytree said:


> TreeVet you gots all the toys!! I can see how you got $2500 in 4 hours or maybe 6, don't know how long you guys go for. I song came to mind when I checked out your site. Jealous Guy by the late Great John Lennon(RIP). The guy at the end of the splitter looked to be needing something else to do. I worked on a chicken processing line and I don't really know if it was all legal but man those Orientals can work ya! I didn't have time to scratch my nose.



That was my boy at the end of the conveyor. Got to find him in the summer home from college as he hides from me. We don't need him at all. He is more in the way than useful. Hopefully that will change some day.


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## treeseer (Dec 25, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> Probably great for old timer's, just a ride for the young guy's.
> Jeff


Actually i agree; 30-40 years ago it would not have made me that much more productive. Now it's indispensable. the math was easy; $2500/10 more years climbing/100 climbing days/year = $2.50/climbing day.

To get to the top so quick and so fresh and look down at the whole tree and plan the working descent---aaaaahhhhhhh!


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## treevet (Dec 25, 2010)

treeseer said:


> To get to the top so quick and so fresh and look down at the whole tree and plan the working descent---aaaaahhhhhhh!



that happens for the less wrinkly challenged as well 

besides many old timers that were way (read WAY) above average climbers when young....never got fat and go to the gym and gonna out climb the youngsters without it (when old).

andddd.....it is not all "working DESCENT" after you get to the TIP.

Get the work done quicker, do more work....have more FUN. Go home and brag about it on AS or forum of yer choice.


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## Nailsbeats (Dec 25, 2010)

Still thinking hard about having a Wraptor up and running this spring. I know it's the smart choice for all the reasons mentioned. To a climber a Wraptor is like a bucket truck and a GRCS is like a crane, and for 5,000 you can have them both without the hassle of either, this is what I keep telling myself anyway, lol.


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## epicklein22 (Dec 25, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> Probably great for old timer's, just a ride for the young guy's.
> Jeff



Haha, I told a couple of the climbers at work about the wraptor and they had a real negative attitude about it. As the one guy put it, if you can't get up in the tree, then there is no reason for you to be in it. I'm still open to it though as I could see where it would really be a time+energy saver.

I give the old school guys some credit though. While some of the new age guys are still hooking up their ascenders or wraptors, the old timer's will be starting their saws and making the first cut. I admire their attitude of "get hot" once you step out of the truck.


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## treevet (Dec 25, 2010)

epicklein22 said:


> Haha, I told a couple of the climbers at work about the wraptor and they had a real negative attitude about it. As the one guy put it, if you can't get up in the tree, then there is no reason for you to be in it. I'm still open to it though as I could see where it would really be a time+energy saver.
> 
> I give the old school guys some credit though. While some of the new age guys are still hooking up their ascenders or wraptors, the old timer's will be starting their saws and making the first cut. I admire their attitude of "get hot" once you step out of the truck.



Probably if "climbing" means spiking every tree.....the significance diminishes. But then "if you can't get up in the tree" without spikes....there are many reasons for you not to be in it.

I can still get up any tree anywhere without it.....but I don't have to....I can afford it (and pretty much anything else in this world I want as well).


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## epicklein22 (Dec 25, 2010)

treevet said:


> Probably if "climbing" means spiking every tree.....the significance diminishes. But then "if you can't get up in the tree" without spikes....there are many reasons for you not to be in it.
> 
> I can still get up any tree anywhere without it.....but I don't have to....I can afford it (and pretty much anything else in this world I want as well).



Ha, feeling a lil salty eh? I'm just giving the opinion of a couple climbers I work with and they are legit and very good at what they do, especially pruning (which the wraptor would be used). And when I say pruning, I'm not talking about lion's tailing it and calling it a done job.:biggrinbounce2:


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## treevet (Dec 25, 2010)

epicklein22 said:


> Ha, feeling a lil salty eh? I'm just giving the opinion of a couple climbers I work with and they are legit and very good at what they do, especially pruning (which the wraptor would be used). And when I say pruning, I'm not talking about lion's tailing it and calling it a done job.:biggrinbounce2:



they don't get much saltier than I am mate. 

let em (what about you?) demo one for a day if they are production climbers and watch em change their tune.....if ya can afford one.

btw what ARE you talking about when you say "pruning" just for curiousity sake then?


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## Rickytree (Dec 25, 2010)

Nailsbeats said:


> Still thinking hard about having a Wraptor up and running this spring. I know it's the smart choice for all the reasons mentioned. To a climber a Wraptor is like a bucket truck and a GRCS is like a crane, and for 5,000 you can have them both without the hassle of either, this is what I keep telling myself anyway, lol.



I love my GRCS! and wood buy another one in a heart beat. I countless jobs where to be honest, I don't know how I wood have done them. I do know that there wood have been alot of branches brushing roof tops and sliding down them. What I've noticed and used the Grcs for is Pretensioning of the rope and pulling away from roof tops is huge. Otherwise alot smaller pieces which is more time. When you do get one you will fall in love with it!!!


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## Nailsbeats (Dec 25, 2010)

Rickytree said:


> I love my GRCS! and wood buy another one in a heart beat. I countless jobs where to be honest, I don't know how I wood have done them. I do know that there wood have been alot of branches brushing roof tops and sliding down them. What I've noticed and used the Grcs for is Pretensioning of the rope and pulling away from roof tops is huge. Otherwise alot smaller pieces which is more time. When you do get one you will fall in love with it!!!



Preaching to the choir Rick, already have one, lol. It's invaluable when needed, actually valued at 2500 lol, but I don't use it as much as my porty or fixed dual bollard.


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## the Aerialist (Dec 25, 2010)

*Who you callin' "Old Timer"???*



jefflovstrom said:


> Probably great for old timer's, just a ride for the young guy's.
> Jeff



I've been thinking about something similar for my golden years of climbing. Anything that can make me more gold is a good thing.

Seriously,I think I'm going to build my own. I've got a capstan wench (my "Grcs") that with a little rigging I think I could make work. I wanna leave it on the ground though, too noisy to be in my face like that. I find a great serenity in climbing in silence.

Sometimes I'll even have my ground crew shut everything with a motor down so I can climb in silence.


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 25, 2010)

Aerial Arborist said:


> I've been thinking about something similar for my golden years of climbing. Anything that can make me more gold is a good thing.
> 
> Seriously,I think I'm going to build my own. I've got a capstan wench (my "Grcs") that with a little rigging I think I could make work. I wanna leave it on the ground though, too noisy to be in my face like that



Jomoco?? Is that you??

Hahaha, Sorry Doug, inside joke, 
Jeff


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## the Aerialist (Dec 25, 2010)

*What, this has been tried before?*

I'm just getting the hang of this board Jeff, but I'll bet Tree Machine has already done this I should learn to search first and ask second.


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 25, 2010)

Aerial Arborist said:


> I'm just getting the hang of this board Jeff, but I'll bet Tree Machine has already done this I should learn to search first and ask second.



All is good, Doug. I think it is cool you are here so search away! 
Jeff


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 25, 2010)

TreeCo said:


> I miss Jomoco hanging around.
> 
> Clearance hasn't been around in a long time either.
> 
> I hope both are doing well.



Let us not forget 'FTA', I worry about him!
Jeff


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## treemandan (Dec 25, 2010)

treevet said:


> That makes absolutely no sense.:monkey:
> 
> This is the single biggest innovation since dependable climbing chainsaws. If you knock it you just can't afford or too cheap to buy one for your climber/s. Every perspective you previously had about a big free climbing job changes. Young climber or old climber. Nothing is lost and everything is enhanced.
> 
> ...



Did Jeff ever make sense? If I still climbed hard everyday I would have one.


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 25, 2010)

treemandan said:


> Did Jeff ever make sense?



You spelled cent's wrong!
Jeff


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 25, 2010)

BTW you smartasses, I think it is a great tool, just piss's me off when you jump on someone for not having one!
Jeff


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## treemandan (Dec 25, 2010)

TreeCo said:


> I miss Jomoco hanging around.
> 
> Clearance hasn't been around in a long time either.
> 
> I hope both are doing well.



Yeah, he had that bike thing and the counter weight thing but this is the bomb right here. I would love to strut into one of those big companies and see what they would pay me for having that... just don't wanna get up that early... or stay out that late. I couldn't do it with the kid these days but really, I would love to walk in there, slap the thing down and say " You thought I was BAD then?" 
I think I would have to start wearing a Batman costume and do theatrical lift offs after awhile with the thing. There would be no end. It could be Bat Bubbers and Bitness Inc.
But these days I don't mind the hump. I figure if I can't get up there with what I got then its all over or it should be. I plan an ascent to cover making a stop or two either to rest or make a secured cut , I don't know if that can be done with the Wraptor but it sure can put a man up there and leave him with enough energy for the rest of the years.


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## treemandan (Dec 25, 2010)

Luve ya Jeff! Anyway, its not unreasonable to expect an employee to furnish his own gear. The boxes I have to hold the tools I have exceede the 2500 price tag and with one of those I think you could make some bucks.


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 25, 2010)

treemandan said:


> .. just don't wanna get up that early... or stay out that late. I couldn't do it with the kid these days but really,.



I am up at 4am and back about 4pm. My girls are 8, 10, and 16 years old. I will be 50 soon and loving life!
Jeff


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 25, 2010)

treemandan said:


> ! its not unreasonable to expect an employee to furnish his own gear.



When I bring on a climber, his gear stays home. We will outfit him with everything from his saddle to his saw. 
Jeff ,


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## ropensaddle (Dec 25, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> I am up at 4am and back about 4pm. My girls are 8, 10, and 16 years old. I will be 50 soon and loving life!
> Jeff


Damn I thought you were older heck your bout my age? Get up that tree boy lol. ummmmmmm hummmmmmmmm


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## treemandan (Dec 25, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> I am up at 4am and back about 4pm. My girls are 8, 10, and 16 years old. I will be 50 soon and loving life!
> Jeff



Sounds good!


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## treemandan (Dec 25, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> When I bring on a climber, his gear stays home. We will outfit him with everything from his saddle to his saw.
> Jeff ,



####! I show up with a Wraptor and you'll let me play! If not another down the road.


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 26, 2010)

treemandan said:


> ####! I show up with a Wraptor and you'll let me play! If not another down the road.



You are on a roll to-nite!
Jeff


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## treevet (Dec 26, 2010)

TreeCo said:


> I miss Jomoco hanging around.
> 
> .



Me too....like I miss getting over a 7 day poison ivy rash in the armpits, groin, between the fingers and under the eyebrows....while working all day in hot humid weather.


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 26, 2010)

treevet said:


> Me too....like I miss getting over a 7 day poison ivy rash in the armpits, groin, between the fingers and under the eyebrows....while working all day in hot humid weather.



Your sentimental passion makes you seem more human! Softy! Ha!
Jeff


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## sgreanbeans (Dec 26, 2010)

I would love one of those! Whole deal with me not climbing is me neck and shoulders, that would be sweet! But, gunna have to wait until I gets me da do.
GCRS first.


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## Rickytree (Dec 26, 2010)

Nailsbeats said:


> Preaching to the choir Rick, already have one, lol. It's invaluable when needed, actually valued at 2500 lol, but I don't use it as much as my porty or fixed dual bollard.



Sorry, for some reason just thought, well Cheers! How do you like the double bollard? You get that off Reg?


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## Nailsbeats (Dec 26, 2010)

Rickytree said:


> Sorry, for some reason just thought, well Cheers! How do you like the double bollard? You get that off Reg?



I've seen Reg's device, mine I built myself along the same lines.


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## treevet (Dec 26, 2010)

If you put a GRCS and a Wraptor on a picnic table and offered me either one for free.....I would go airborn diving and tackling the Wraptor before anyone could change their mind. You all just have no clue. 

GRCS seems a nice enough tool but my bet is it gathers a lot of dust and spider eggs in a dark corner.

At last count I have about 6 or 7 lowering devices and to get a little lift would be nice occassionally but hardly makes it "like a crane". That lift can be got many other ways.


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## treevet (Dec 26, 2010)

Nailsbeats said:


> I've seen Reg's device, mine I built myself along the same lines.



pict?


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## Rickytree (Dec 26, 2010)

Nailsbeats said:


> I've seen Reg's device, mine I built myself along the same lines.



With the double bollard do you always have two ground guys and where does this unit really come into play with removals? To me it would seem that there wood be alot of lines out of the tree perhaps getting tangled with each other.Cuz with the GRCS I've butt hitched stuff and still pulled it over away from whatever. Just curious cuz man there is soo many ways to skin a cat.


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## Nailsbeats (Dec 26, 2010)

treevet said:


> pict?



No, it's burried in my gear box, I'll have to get one next time I use it.


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## Nailsbeats (Dec 26, 2010)

treevet said:


> If you put a GRCS and a Wraptor on a picnic table and offered me either one for free.....I would go airborn diving and tackling the Wraptor before anyone could change their mind. You all just have no clue.
> 
> GRCS seems a nice enough tool but my bet is it gathers a lot of dust and spider eggs in a dark corner.
> 
> At last count I have about 6 or 7 lowering devices and to get a little lift would be nice occassionally but hardly makes it "like a crane". That lift can be got many other ways.



Do you have a GRCS Treevet?


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## Rickytree (Dec 26, 2010)

treevet said:


> If you put a GRCS and a Wraptor on a picnic table and offered me either one for free.....I would go airborn diving and tackling the Wraptor before anyone could change their mind. You all just have no clue.
> 
> GRCS seems a nice enough tool but my bet is it gathers a lot of dust and spider eggs in a dark corner.
> 
> At last count I have about 6 or 7 lowering devices and to get a little lift would be nice occassionally but hardly makes it "like a crane". That lift can be got many other ways.



Good Day TreeVet! So when did you get the Wraptor and how often is it being used? what about power and speed?


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## Blakesmaster (Dec 26, 2010)

Nailsbeats said:


> No, it's burried in my gear box, I'll have to get one next time I use it.



I'd like to see a pic too, Nails. Ricky, if you look through some of Reg's vids you can see his dual bollard in action. I was just watching a few last night. When blocking down big wood he uses 2 blocks on either side of the stem which gives the piece coming off some real nice control. Looks like he uses 1 ground guy on both ropes, I'd assuming for consistency in letting both lines run the same amount.


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## Blakesmaster (Dec 26, 2010)

*Here ya go.*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCavP5I_-wc&feature=related

Starts using 2 blocks around the 3 minute mark.


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## treevet (Dec 26, 2010)

Nailsbeats said:


> Do you have a GRCS Treevet?



no Nails but have seen many vids, picts and countless threads and been around the block enough times to get a pretty good pict of the concept.
Not knocking but just making a statement about priorities and how important it can be to make investments in equipment in sequence of importance and usefulness and money making ability......I think.


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## Rickytree (Dec 26, 2010)

Thanks for the vid post but still can't see the use for two lowering ropes.


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## treevet (Dec 26, 2010)

Rickytree said:


> Good Day TreeVet! So when did you get the Wraptor and how often is it being used? what about power and speed?



I got it early last Feb. I think. I not only used it almost daily but often used it multiple times daily. Bucket days not included ofcourse. 

I think it takes you 100 ft. in a minute. As for power....no use for pulling things over or up or whatever.

They probably still have the free 2 week demo if you are unsure.


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## Rickytree (Dec 26, 2010)

treevet said:


> no Nails but have seen many vids, picts and countless threads and been around the block enough times to get a pretty good pict of the concept.
> Not knocking but just making a statement about priorities and how important it can be to make investments in equipment in sequence of importance and usefulness and money making ability......I think.



I got the GRCS and it's the only lowering device I use. LIFT, TUG AND PULL. Love it. I have the bollard with it but haven't use it once. Also have a porta wrap which I got use with some ropes and stuff and still never use it. Everybody has got there own style and I not saying that mine is the best but for me it works the best for Me. That's one of the great things about tree work is there's soo many ways to complete the puzzle.


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## Blakesmaster (Dec 26, 2010)

Rickytree said:


> Thanks for the vid post but still can't see the use for two lowering ropes.



I think it's just an added control issue. If you watch the majority of Reg's vids you can see his main focus in this work is having absolute control of any and every thing. Some steps he takes for added control seem unnecessary time wasters to others but that's his style. 

In regards to the dual bollard, my opinion is that in certain situations that added control would be beneficial. For instance, blocking down wood with a house right next to one side of the tree where the wood must absolutely not swing and must come to a stop above the ground. There are others I'm sure. With only one lowering line that chance of a chunk walking around the stem and into a target is always present.


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## Rickytree (Dec 26, 2010)

treevet said:


> I got it early last Feb. I think. I not only used it almost daily but often used it multiple times daily. Bucket days not included ofcourse.
> 
> I think it takes you 100 ft. in a minute. As for power....no use for pulling things over or up or whatever.
> 
> They probably still have the free 2 week demo if you are unsure.



Never heard of the demo but it's already on order and I got a 10% off coupon so I can't complain. $2263 with shipping. Deal s'il vous plait!


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## treevet (Dec 26, 2010)

Rickytree said:


> Never heard of the demo but it's already on order and I got a 10% off coupon so I can't complain. $2263 with shipping. Deal s'il vous plait!



nice score....did you get the line included?


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## Rickytree (Dec 26, 2010)

Blakesmaster said:


> I think it's just an added control issue. If you watch the majority of Reg's vids you can see his main focus in this work is having absolute control of any and every thing. Some steps he takes for added control seem unnecessary time wasters to others but that's his style.
> 
> In regards to the dual bollard, my opinion is that in certain situations that added control would be beneficial. For instance, blocking down wood with a house right next to one side of the tree where the wood must absolutely not swing and must come to a stop above the ground. There are others I'm sure. With only one lowering line that chance of a chunk walking around the stem and into a target is always present.



I see what you mean but just didn't see the big advantage with blocking the main stem. Wood come in real handy for large limbs though to stop shock load or over swing.


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## treevet (Dec 26, 2010)

Rickytree said:


> I got the GRCS and it's the only lowering device I use. LIFT, TUG AND PULL. Love it. I have the bollard with it but haven't use it once. Also have a porta wrap which I got use with some ropes and stuff and still never use it. Everybody has got there own style and I not saying that mine is the best but for me it works the best for Me. That's one of the great things about tree work is there's soo many ways to complete the puzzle.



I probably would not be inclined to use a strap on (grcs or plain bollard) on a live tree that was not being removed for fear of damage to the tree.


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## Rickytree (Dec 26, 2010)

treevet said:


> nice score....did you get the line included?



Yep everything that comes from Sherrill Tree. Had the coupon for about 3 years and been saving it for a big purchase. Buy all my saws across the river or though a logging buddy i know which he pays no tax and just bought 5 gallons of 2 cycle mix for 109 bucks so I'm dun for awhile. Just petro now!! oh by chain in rolls too.


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## Rickytree (Dec 26, 2010)

treevet said:


> I probably would not be inclined to use a strap on (grcs or plain bollard) on a live tree that was not being removed for fear of damage to the tree.



No damage cuz there is no spikes. Just flat steel and a 4" strap. Squirrels do more damage with bark peel. I would only use it when big stuff is coming out of a trim other wise i just take wraps up in the tree. Usually just me and groundie so. Cheers!


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## the Aerialist (Dec 26, 2010)

*Gus ~ you're hired!*



Blakesmaster said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCavP5I_-wc&feature=related
> 
> Starts using 2 blocks around the 3 minute mark.



The climber was good and definitely in charge. It looked to me that the second block and rope was unnecessary. and even dangerous when he had to send someone under the load to undo it (snag? loop?).

Having said that, I just bought the large stainless steel Porty on a click through from this site (support it guys) so now I have the large SS and an aluminum version to match. I can see cases when I would use them both at once, but not that case.

Gus was the star of that show though, no doubt about it. I need to do some further training of my guys.


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## the Aerialist (Dec 26, 2010)

*Only Two Years To Go ...*



TreeCo said:


> The GRCS with it's hard rubber feet is tree friendly. I've never had it do damage to a live tree.



My new Porta-Wrap has a cap on the end to prevent it from gouging the tree like the open ended one can. I do mostly removals, but when trimming and pruning the loads are not usually that great to cause damage on the tree with the end of the Porty. Mostly hinged cuts to lessen canopy damage to the parts that stay.



TreeCo said:


> ... Doing tree removal work without a ratcheting lowering device is like doing tree work without a chainsaw!
> 
> When I get a little closer to collecting social security, I may try out that Wraptor.



So you have a Hobbs, how do you (or anyone) compare it to a GRCS?

If I can adapt my wench to pull me up the tree before I start using it for lifting branches it will be doing double duty for me and I can avoid the high cost of a Wraptor. That might allow for adding a Hobbs or GRCS to my gear. Right now I kind of like the Hobbs. comments?


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## treevet (Dec 26, 2010)

TreeCo said:


> The GRCS with it's hard rubber feet is tree friendly. I've never had it do damage to a live tree.
> 
> Got a Hobbs in 1990 and it was all metal. We use to cut a flat spot in the tree trunk and then a kerf in the tree to accept the horizontal metal 'tang' that ran along the top of the back of the Hobbs. When that tang went into the trunk you knew the Hobbs was staying put. Later versions of the Hobbs..I believe called the 'preservation' models have rubber feet also but the first versions did not. Doing tree removal work without a ratcheting lowering device is like doing tree work without a chainsaw!
> 
> When I get a little closer to collecting social security, I may try out that Wraptor.



My guess by your post count and your posts is you are just an occassional climber anyway. Kind of an armchair arborist that goes to the kitchen once in a while lol. Wraptor investment probably would not pay off with you.

As for injury.....compression damage to cells and bark would not show up for quite some time (and likely be subtle in progression and appearance) and the way straps are torqued down with a tire tool....well it is a no brainer that there is unseen damage that will be latent to appear.

I have owned a strap on Bollard since it was invented. So infrequently does one need lift.... if rigging is done correctly, that it would not be a waste of money but rather an unnecessary extravagance imo. Probably 99 percent of the time you are using the gcrs, the winch is unneeded. $2500 bollard.....ouch.

The beginning of the GRCS invention I flew up to a seminar from Cinci to Cleveland. 

There he was up in a big choke cherry jingling around from a thousand carabiners. He sets a block and comes down past a major basal cavity to a large lateral on the bottom of the tree.

He hooks it up on the tip of the limb and goes back to the trunk and notches the top of the limb and starts bottom cutting it. The guy on the winch starts cranking. As the limb goes up I am thinking 2 things:

1. He has the stem he is tied into bowed over like a fishing pole with a hundred pound catfish on it and it is flexing right where the cavity is. Not pretty.

2. If there was a roof under where he is cutting and the limb just detached where he was cutting while hinging and standing up (and it easily could have) the butt would have gone right through any roof below it like a pungy stick.

I could have side notched that limb and it would have hinged right off from over the imaginary room and then lowered the tip to the gm. Take a lot less time too.


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## tree MDS (Dec 26, 2010)

Proper positioning of the lowering device, coupled with letting the piece run, goes a long way to preserving your lines too. The two block deal is interesting though.


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## the Aerialist (Dec 26, 2010)

*I'm sure he's a great climber ...*



TreeCo said:


> It wasn't a 'snag' or a 'loop'. You can hear Reg the ground crew that if the take the load off of one rope the piece will tilt so the can get it on the ground easier in the tight landing zone.



Oh, OK, but wouldn't a tag line suffice for that?



> Something being overlooked here ......and it is a biggy....is the fact that the double pulley/rope system gets the lowering rope out of the zone where the large piece of wood has a tendency to 'slam' or 'pinch' the rope between itself and the tree trunk. In other of Reg's videos he mentions this purpose.



Now that is good. I know you can't always, but I try to use another tree as sort of a redirect to get both the line and the Ground guy out of the way.



> Although the ground man is very good there is little doubt who the star of that show is.



The guy is very good, and if not the "star", he very much in command, but in the video he showed nothing that I, a senior citizen, don't do on a regular basis, and I'm not nearly as good a climber as most of you.


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## tree MDS (Dec 26, 2010)

Another on that line of thought..


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## Rickytree (Dec 26, 2010)

Aerial Arborist said:


> My new Porta-Wrap has a cap on the end to prevent it from gouging the tree like the open ended one can. I do mostly removals, but when trimming and pruning the loads are not usually that great to cause damage on the tree with the end of the Porty. Mostly hinged cuts to lessen canopy damage to the parts that stay.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I've used the GRCS as a ascending device and it works great, but the guy on the ground is in control(bad), the block which has to be installed has to be directly over the device(bad) and you can't go out on a limb for the ascent(bad)unless You are belayed. Two different animals that's why I ordered the Wraptor. Call me lazy, old, washed up, whatever I not here to down anyone and everyone is got the own opinion and ways of doing things. I am here to learn and share thoughts, ideas, and experiences with individuals who are here for the same reasons.


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## the Aerialist (Dec 26, 2010)

*I am Old but not quite washed up yet ...*



Rickytree said:


> I've used the GRCS as a ascending device and it works great, but the guy on the ground is in control(bad)...



I think I can wrap the climbing rope around the spool and use the tail of it to control my own assent, with my Unicender or LockJack as the ascent device that keeps me on the rope, no belay needed.

I have not had time to mess with this idea yet, and you can believe I will be on redundant belay until I am convinced it will work as expected.



> ... the block which has to be installed has to be directly over the device(bad) and you can't go out on a limb for the ascent(bad)unless You are belayed. Two different animals that's why I ordered the Wraptor. Call me lazy, old, washed up, whatever I not here to down anyone and everyone is got the own opinion and ways of doing things. I am here to learn and share thoughts, ideas, and experiences with individuals who are here for the same reasons.



Me too, anybody try this yet?


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## treeseer (Dec 26, 2010)

TreeCo said:


> When I get a little closer to collecting social security, I may try out that Wraptor.


You sure will, o rotund one! opcorn:

tv "I think it takes you 100 ft. in a minute."

I think you're hyperbolizing--1'/second is the claim, not 1.67'/per. Mine has gotten close to 1'/per with my 170# added,but never went that fast.

Ricky yes you can stop on the way and work off of it; I do this frequently to at least clear a channel for falling brush from the crown. Much easier with a polesaw. 

Attached is a blurb I put in the aussie mag last year, much cutandpasted from Paul's own ad. His wife's video with the choreographed circus moves was outstanding--you'll want to buy 2!


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## tree MDS (Dec 26, 2010)

I would get a raptor in a heartbeat if I did a lot of pruning big trees.. probably a waste of money if you're a takedown guy though.

...just to get back on topic here.


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## the Aerialist (Dec 26, 2010)

*I've got an Arborist block or two ..*



TreeCo said:


> You could pull the tail of your rope to aid in advancing forwards but it doesn't work very well as it tends to put forces on the climber pulling them in, out, or sideways. Also it tends to put a lot of friction at the climbing TIP unless you are using some type of device up there, too.



I'll put an aluminum block on the end if my "lifeline" (that's what it becomes once I am on it) and run my climbing line through it and through my Unicender then around the spool. Somewhat of a straight up elevator, but can go around some limbs as long as the deflection angle isn't great. I'll cut those off as I go up.



> Something that works real well for removals is spiking up the tree free climbing while being belayed by a top rope. Gotta trust your operator though but really no different than being belayed when rock climbing. Of course the run of the belay rope is going to determine what path the climber must take going up.



I've belayed newbee climbers that way, but never thought to try it myself with free climbing. It would be fast but I like the security of a solid top rope that I control.


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## mr. holden wood (Dec 26, 2010)

[I can still get up any tree anywhere without it.....but I don't have to....I can afford it (and pretty much anything else in this world I want as well).[/QUOTE]

When ya bathe in hundred dollar bills, why not buy a twenty five hundred dollar tanaka weed eater. Realistically most guys don't have that much trouble ascending a tree via srt. I'm sure it's alot of fun but not really that necessary for most able bodied climbers.


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## Rftreeman (Dec 26, 2010)

lifting limit is 300 pounds, I think I'll get me self one since my biggest problem is getting my fat ass up to the top of the tree, this will make it easy and I won't need to pay the climber so it should pay for itself fast.....


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## treevet (Dec 26, 2010)

treeseer said:


> tv "I think it takes you 100 ft. in a minute."
> 
> I think you're hyperbolizing--1'/second is the claim, not 1.67'/per. Mine has gotten close to 1'/per with my 170# added,but never went that fast.
> :



I was just guesstimating ts, but even with your figures (hope you weren't timing with your much publicized snafu where you had the camming safety device upside down lol).....it is still less than 2 minutes....so technically one minute as I guessed.


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## treevet (Dec 26, 2010)

mr. holden wood said:


> [I can still get up any tree anywhere without it.....but I don't have to....I can afford it (and pretty much anything else in this world I want as well).





> [ When ya bathe in hundred dollar bills, why not buy a twenty five hundred dollar tanaka weed eater. Realistically most guys don't have that much trouble ascending a tree via srt. I'm sure it's alot of fun but not really that necessary for most able bodied climbers


.

Like I said before, those whose idea of climbing involves puncturing bark with both feet even while pruning (like you), the usefulness of this tool is questionable.

To compare srt to using a Wraptor is like driving from here to Chicago on a bicycle or in a Corvette. Either way you gonna get there I guess.

Saved a ton of money on the bicycle.


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## treevet (Dec 26, 2010)

> Oh rotund one





TreeCo said:


> O' senescent one!
> /



think I'm gonna blow lunch


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## tree MDS (Dec 26, 2010)

Rftreeman said:


> lifting limit is 300 pounds, I think I'll get me self one since my biggest problem is getting my fat ass up to the top of the tree, this will make it easy and I won't need to pay the climber so it should pay for itself fast.....



If you need one of them motorized fossil hoisting devices for takedowns (which is all you do right??), you might as well just lay it on down!


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## mr. holden wood (Dec 26, 2010)

treevet said:


> .
> 
> Like I said before, those whose idea of climbing involves puncturing bark with both feet even while pruning (like you), the usefulness of this tool is questionable.
> 
> ...



Any situation that would warrant a wraptor or srt ascent is the same. How is bark damaged with standard srt assents. Maybe im speaking for myself but I have never reached my tip via srt and lost much steam. Seems like a gadget that would get used once or twice a month. You live in ohio not the redwood national forest. Be careful, if you start wraptoring every tree you come across you might end up looking like rftreeman.


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## Reg (Dec 26, 2010)

Rickytree said:


> Thanks for the vid post but still can't see the use for two lowering ropes.


 Hi Ricky, pardon the temporary derail. The Dual bollard was designed with several incentives i.e. cradling large horizontals - http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=105814

Speed-lining, 

Load transfer between trees, or rigging points,

Load-sharing heavy blocks i.e. better heat dissipation, half the wear/strain on the ropes/slings etc, the ability to stop a log suddenly but with only half the risk of breaking the line. In all, the ability to safely manage bigger wood all round :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjqJs7YYnMo 

RE: wraptor

Congratulations, I would have one in an instant, and I might in 2011 depending on how things turn out. I'm a spurs and flipline man myself, but we still do our share of big puning jobs. It seem's the guys who've bought them so far all seem to say the same thing, wish we'd had one years ago! 

If/when I get one I'll have to brush up on the throw line though, to say I'm woeful is putting it kindly.


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## treeseer (Dec 26, 2010)

Reg said:


> If/when I get one I'll have to brush up on the throw line though, to say I'm woeful is putting it kindly.


Yup, you will. I brushed up with the Big Shot and went from poor to mediocre, now hitting forks @ 50-70' fairly well.

Senescent, yeah, but by programmed reduction and nutrition I get rejuvenated all the time.

The Wraptor will be used in a TCC next Jan 22, Windermere Florida.


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## treevet (Dec 26, 2010)

Yeah the wraptor not worth much without modern throw lines, bean bags, big shot and cube. 

Typical scenario....you show up and you have a hundred foot plus oak, tuliptree, sycamore, etc..... I do them all the time to a tune of usually about $l500 ea.

You have 3 big leads that need deadwood out of each of them. Usually one shot and I am set up. I can go up either side of the wraptor rope and either work the other 2 leads from the one I chose first or go to the ground and shoot the other 2 individually. 

You got any vid of you srt footlocking up over a hundred feet holden? That would be quite amusing methinks.


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## lxt (Dec 26, 2010)

All this over a beefed up weedeater winch!!! a $2500.00 tool??? hey if it helps your biz....get it!! but for me it would be a terrible waste of money!!!

This is one of those topics were some will praise it & others will tear it down....not necessarily because of cost, but for infrequency of use!!! I do alot of large prunes myself & have survived well with what I have, however....age catches us all & if what treevet does for a living day in & out is as he says..............then the wraptor would be an asset!!!



LXT...............


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## treevet (Dec 26, 2010)

tree MDS said:


> If you need one of them motorized fossil hoisting devices for takedowns (which is all you do right??), you might as well just lay it on down!



You cannot try one for fear of getting a WUI (Wraptoring under the influence...hic hic hicup lol)


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## treevet (Dec 26, 2010)

lxt said:


> All this over a beefed up weedeater winch!!! a $2500.00 tool??? hey if it helps your biz....get it!! but for me it would be a terrible waste of money!!!
> 
> This is one of those topics were some will praise it & others will tear it down....not necessarily because of cost, but for infrequency of use!!! I do alot of large prunes myself & have survived well with what I have, however....age catches us all & if what treevet does for a living day in & out is as he says..............then the wraptor would be an asset!!!
> 
> ...



When I was 21 and built like Tommy Hearns at about 6 foot plus and a little over 150 I would still have wanted one but likely could not have afforded it. I got out of the USMC at 185 but slimmed down for some climbing contests and liked it so much I stayed that way for a while. Nobody anywhere I crossed paths with other climbers could outclimb me at that weight. 

I weigh about 185 now and can foot lock anywhere anytime esp with my pantins and Ascentree.....but don't have to. Sadly (or gladly depending on how you look at it) I am in it for the money not some professed artistic expression. 

Still can do it all......don't have to do it all.....can do much more than the footlocker in a day. Go home and knock off a piece.


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## tree MDS (Dec 26, 2010)

treevet said:


> You cannot try one for fear of getting a WUI (Wraptoring under the influence...hic hic hicup lol)



Hahaha.. Maybe you can rig something up so you can wraptor your old ass off the bed, just enough to use the bed pan in a couple more years! hahaha. 

No, sounds like a good toy though!  :hmm3grin2orange:


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## mr. holden wood (Dec 26, 2010)

treevet said:


> Yeah the wraptor not worth much without modern throw lines, bean bags, big shot and cube.
> 
> Typical scenario....you show up and you have a hundred foot plus oak, tuliptree, sycamore, etc..... I do them all the time to a tune of usually about $l500 ea.
> 
> ...



I doubt you work hundred foot trees "all the time" The tallest recorded tree in Ohio is a hundred and thrity five feet. Being that its a cottonwood it's either dead or lost it leader by this point. So you might not even have a tree a hundred feet tall in ohio.
No footage of me foot locking, I use a couple petzl ascenders and webbing for foot loops, simple and efficient. Looks like a fun toy though, would be better used for those NorCal rec climbers.


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## the Aerialist (Dec 26, 2010)

*I don't need no stinking shot bag ...*



Reg said:


> ... If/when I get one I'll have to brush up on the throw line though, to say I'm woeful is putting it kindly.



I'm just going to shoot a line 100' up with my rope gun:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pa6F1q8cD0M

And just wait until I get my rope rocket mounted on it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5wejEqSE2w

I'll have a line setting device capable of leaping over tall buildings! Then my wench will just haul my ass up there.


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## treevet (Dec 26, 2010)

mr. holden wood said:


> I doubt you work hundred foot trees "all the time" The tallest recorded tree in Ohio is a hundred and thrity five feet. Being that its a cottonwood it's either dead or lost it leader by this point. So you might not even have a tree a hundred feet tall in ohio.
> .



I work in trees over a hundred feet tall on at least a weekly basis....in my own little town alone. I have a copy of "Ohio's Biggest Trees" right in front of me and there are about 40 tree species registered over 100 feet with a few of the tallest being...... 

Tuliptree 165 feet
Sycamore 130 feet
White pine 155 feet
Chestnut oak 130 feet
Bur oak 120 feet
Pignut hickory 120 feet
Hemlock 140 feet
Shagbark hick 120 feet
Hackberry 120 feet
Slippery elm 120 feet
A. elm 110 feet
W ash 120 feet
A beech 110 feet

These are not nec the tallest trees of this species (trees win by a combination of trunk, canopy size and height) and I did not include anything shorter than 110 feet 

nor does it mean these are the only individual trees of these trees species that are over a hundred feet by any means.

Last month alone I did 3 free climbing jobs of trees measured by my climbing line at well over 100 feet for $1500. ea. One was a 140 foot syc and one was a 140 foot tuliptree.

The town next to mine that we frequent has more over a hundred feet too that we frequent. We are the big tree go to guys in this niche area.

Any apology offered Holden?


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## treevet (Dec 26, 2010)

ps what does it mean you use "webbing for foot loops"? 

how can you use hand ascenders without footlocking or pantin/similar devices?


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## Rickytree (Dec 26, 2010)

Reg said:


> Hi Ricky, pardon the temporary derail. The Dual bollard was designed with several incentives i.e. cradling large horizontals - http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=105814
> 
> Speed-lining,
> 
> ...



Thanks Reg!

I see your points on the system of the double bollard. Hey when are you coming to Vancouver!


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## the Aerialist (Dec 26, 2010)

*I can use any help I can get ...*

This Summer I was so overwhelmed with work I brought in a climber with three years experience. I had also been working with my Nephew who at that point had three weeks of experience.

First thing I did was walk them around the property to show them the work for the day. There were six trees to trim and I directed them to put ladders up to the two easiest trees. I told the Nephew to take one tree (the easiest) and the new climber to the other (also easy).

The new climber said "I don't use a ladder to climb trees" in distain. I said "OK, pick another one". He proceeded to get out his throwbag and went over to another tree (not one that I was being paid to trim). I let him go, I was more interested in seeing if I could use him as a climber than which tree he climbed.

He messed around with his gear and his bag and line while the Nephew went up the ladder in my gear with a setpole and got to work. He had a couple of misses and tangles he finally got his climbing line secured in the tree and began footlocking with a Pantin I suggested he use (mine).

He really struggled (it was 95 degrees out) and when he finally made the first limb (25') he threw up. And whined about being sick. I sent him up some water and told him to take a break. The Nephew was just rappelling down (with my LockJack) about that time. The ladder in the second tree was already waiting for him.

The new climber used his shotbag to advance up the tree, the Nephew used my setpole. There wasn't much to trim in the climbers tree, and I wasn't getting paid for any of it but it took him longer to do than the Nephew.

I knocked out the remaining four trees with them tying the branches to a little tractor we had for the job which dragged everything away.

At the end of the day I told him that I'd hire him as a ground guy and he could learn to climb with the Nephew. He declined, too proud I guess.


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## treevet (Dec 26, 2010)

TreeCo said:


> Shirley you can't be serious.
> 
> This is real basic stuff.
> 
> ...



you couldn't carry my jock around treeho


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## mr. holden wood (Dec 26, 2010)

treevet said:


> I work in trees over a hundred feet tall on at least a weekly basis....in my own little town alone. I have a copy of "Ohio's Biggest Trees" right in front of me and there are about 40 tree species registered over 100 feet with a few of the tallest being......
> 
> Tuliptree 165 feet
> Sycamore 130 feet
> ...



No, Check out the copyright of that book of yours, 1920's I would imagine. I got the info off the ohio state DNR website. Information was collected from 2010.edit Just found the white pine and tulip ten feet taller then the cottonwood. These trees are one of a kind. For the most part you are climbing trees around seventy feet no wraptor required imo.


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## treevet (Dec 26, 2010)

mr. holden wood said:


> No, Check out the copyright of that book of yours, 1920's I would imagine. I got the info off the
> 
> ohio state DNR website.
> 
> Information was collected from 2010.



1999 20th edition....likely these trees are much taller now after 10 years. Didn't expect you to acknowledge the truth.

Want to verify.....

you guessed it...contact publisher's of this booklet:

Ohio DNR Division of Forestry
3060 C.R. 939
Perrysville, Ohio 44864

Somebody's wrong here....my guess?.....You


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## treevet (Dec 26, 2010)

mr. holden wood said:


> For the most part you are climbing trees around seventy feet no wraptor required imo.



You are out fine pruning dogwoods most days I bet.


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## mr. holden wood (Dec 26, 2010)

Aerial Arborist said:


> This Summer I was so overwhelmed with work I brought in a climber with three years experience. I had also been working with my Nephew who at that point had three weeks of experience.
> 
> First thing I did was walk them around the property to show them the work for the day. There were six trees to trim and I directed them to put ladders up to the two easiest trees. I told the Nephew to take one tree (the easiest) and the new climber to the other (also easy).
> 
> ...



Nobody I know uses ladders to work a tree, unless it's a orchard ladder for ornamental pruning. We set lines with thirty foot ars telescopic pole saw. It has a carabiner attachment. I can easily body thrust to thirty feet without hesitation. At that point most trees have a easy enough ladder to toss your carabiner to the next tip. If not the ars will get you another thirty feet.
If it all possible I will set lines with the ars. Using a big shot then srt/wraptor means you will have to switch over climbing systems. A waste of time and energy. Not everything needs to be complicated and motorized.


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## mr. holden wood (Dec 26, 2010)

treevet said:


> You are out fine pruning dogwoods most days I bet.



Funny that you think that's a insult. My best days are with a silky and a pair of felco's. Zero wear and tear on myself and the boss loves that the equipment gets a break. You do realize that I generate the same earning prhr pruning a lace leaf maple as I do removing a one hundred and seventy five foot fir. Day after day I read the complaints of hacks bringing down the price of tree work. We don't compete with hacks, any tree guy can leave a stump and a pile of firewood. Only arborists can leave a healthy, well structured tree in his absence.


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## mr. holden wood (Dec 26, 2010)

treevet said:


> ps what does it mean you use "webbing for foot loops"?
> 
> how can you use hand ascenders without footlocking or pantin/similar devices?



How much experience do you have with srt?. I'm not going give you a hard time if its slim to none, it just explains why you are so enamored with the wraptor.


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## ropensaddle (Dec 26, 2010)

Wood holder I truly hope you don't act like you type, arrogance is not a great virtue. I know many five year climbers believe they are the only ones that been there. I have seen it over and over the longer one achieves the impossible the humbler they become. I think your prolly good but your mistaking if you think your the only one that is, or has been. I for one think a little respect for an aging climber using mechanical assent is in order. I would have one now if I could afford one and I will have one for sure. It is plain and simple a great tool to reduce stress on an aging body you can tell us all how you intend to do things past fifty but if your not there it is blind hope.


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 26, 2010)

If you do euc's, you do webbing.


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## treevet (Dec 26, 2010)

mr. holden wood said:


> Nobody I know uses ladders to work a tree, unless it's a orchard ladder for ornamental pruning. We set lines with thirty foot ars telescopic pole saw. It has a carabiner attachment. I can easily body thrust to thirty feet without hesitation. At that point most trees have a easy enough ladder to toss your carabiner to the next tip. If not the ars will get you another thirty feet.
> If it all possible I will set lines with the ars. Using a big shot then srt/wraptor means you will have to switch over climbing systems. A waste of time and energy. Not everything needs to be complicated and motorized.



like I said earlier Holden, I used to drt with pantins and ascentree (still do sometimes for fun) then convert to distal on a hitch climber. Prior to that, going back to the 60's we used to just straight foot lock for years without any safety at all. I used to just hand lock without any feet assist back in the day and could easily climb 20 feet without anything but my hands on a double rope and my feet walking up the tree. 

hard to make fun of that when you are a body thruster advancing the line and getting in the tree with a polesaw isn't it? you livin in the stone ages and will soon fall even further back with lack of foresight to see advantages of this tool this thread is about.

You cannot honestly think you and your body thrusting edge out this genius invention can you? Sad to see somebody embarass themselves like this.


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## ropensaddle (Dec 26, 2010)

treevet said:


> like I said earlier Holden, I used to drt with pantins and ascentree (still do sometimes for fun) then convert to distal on a hitch climber. Prior to that, going back to the 60's we used to just straight foot lock for years without any safety at all. I used to just hand lock without any feet assist back in the day and could easily climb 20 feet without anything but my hands on a double rope and my feet walking up the tree.
> 
> hard to make fun of that when you are a body thruster advancing the line and getting in the tree with a polesaw isn't it? you livin in the stone ages and will soon fall even further back with lack of foresight to see advantages of this tool this thread is about.
> 
> You cannot honestly think you and your body thrusting edge out this genius invention can you? Sad to see somebody embarass themselves like this.



Hey vet I have hand over hand too sorta sketchy though. I put it back in the bowline on the bight days it is great to have the comfort we entertain now huh? I wouldn't mind climbing with you someday friend!


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## treevet (Dec 26, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> Hey vet I have hand over hand too sorta sketchy though. I put it back in the bowline on the bight days it is great to have the comfort we entertain now huh? I wouldn't mind climbing with you someday friend!



It would be an honor Rope.

Hand walking was much easier on the manilla (esp a broke in one) as the nylon was/is much more slippery.


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## ropensaddle (Dec 26, 2010)

treevet said:


> It would be an honor Rope.
> 
> Hand walking was much easier on the manilla (esp a broke in one) as the nylon was/is much more slippery.



I got to use steel core manilla a few times but they were being eradicated when I started this game. I bought regular grass rope at the hardware store and climbed on it before getting a real climb rope and some training. I shiver when I think of some of my earlier thought processes but was on a mission to earn a living.


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## treevet (Dec 26, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> I got to use steel core manilla a few times but they were being eradicated when I started this game. I bought regular grass rope at the hardware store and climbed on it before getting a real climb rope and some training. I shiver when I think of some of my earlier thought processes but was on a mission to earn a living.



Yeah me too. I took a couple of nasty falls back in the beginning that wised me up a little too.


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## mr. holden wood (Dec 26, 2010)

treevet said:


> like I said earlier Holden, I used to drt with pantins and ascentree (still do sometimes for fun) then convert to distal on a hitch climber. Prior to that, going back to the 60's we used to just straight foot lock for years without any safety at all. I used to just hand lock without any feet assist back in the day and could easily climb 20 feet without anything but my hands on a double rope and my feet walking up the tree.
> 
> hard to make fun of that when you are a body thruster advancing the line and getting in the tree with a polesaw isn't it? you livin in the stone ages and will soon fall even further back with lack of foresight to see advantages of this tool this thread is about.
> 
> You cannot honestly think you and your body thrusting edge out this genius invention can you? Sad to see somebody embarass themselves like this.


 I gave one example on how to ascend a tree, This is by no means how its done every time. Every tree calls for a different method. No one method is better then the other every time. Break the wraptor out in a tree with a good ladder beginning at 12 feet. Ill be up in the crown by the time you pull that climb line down. 
My biggest problem with seniors is the inability to see things anyway but there own. Loosen up a bit .


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## mr. holden wood (Dec 26, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> Wood holder I truly hope you don't act like you type, arrogance is not a great virtue. I know many five year climbers believe they are the only ones that been there. I have seen it over and over the longer one achieves the impossible the humbler they become. I think your prolly good but your mistaking if you think your the only one that is, or has been. I for one think a little respect for an aging climber using mechanical assent is in order. I would have one now if I could afford one and I will have one for sure. It is plain and simple a great tool to reduce stress on an aging body you can tell us all how you intend to do things past fifty but if your not there it is blind hope.


 Tree vet is a grumpy old climber who focuses on insulting fellow posters with a dash of enlightenment every now and then. Just because hes' done it for ever doesn't mean I need to model my career after his. He needs a tool like the wraptor, hopefully he will get a motorized ascender for his wheel chair at the rate his business is going
In my opinion if im climbing in my fifties, I made some poor decisions along the way. A very wise climber told me this is a young mans game and i agree. If im not running a successful tree service in my fifties ,at minimum Ill be supervising one, definitely not climbing.


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## Slvrmple72 (Dec 26, 2010)

What if you still like climbing even into your fifties?

Sixties?

Treevet, You said you would go for the Wraptor over the GRCS if given the choice, is that because in all of your years of experience you had other better or equivalent gear to the GRCS? or because you just do not use it as much even though you do have it compared to the usefulness of the Wraptor?

I have a Wraptor in the budget for next year, not if, just when! I am still a little shy of forty yet!


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## ropensaddle (Dec 27, 2010)

mr. holden wood said:


> Tree vet is a grumpy old climber who focuses on insulting fellow posters with a dash of enlightenment every now and then. Just because hes' done it for ever doesn't mean I need to model my career after his. He needs a tool like the wraptor, hopefully he will get a motorized ascender for his wheel chair at the rate his business is going
> In my opinion if im climbing in my fifties, I made some poor decisions along the way. A very wise climber told me this is a young mans game and i agree. If im not running a successful tree service in my fifties ,at minimum Ill be supervising one, definitely not climbing.



Lmfao well; I hope for your sake you get lucky. I have never seen the magical supervisor jobs, as in corporations they seem to go to family members. I think in the coming economy, I will be lucky to retire at sixty five and I plan to climb at least till then if necessary. I will of course, be using a wraptor, as soon as I can afford one, because; it will give me an advantage over hard headed grumpy youngsters ummmmmmmm hmmmmmmmmmmm

PS: 48 in April still climbing!


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## the Aerialist (Dec 27, 2010)

mr. holden wood said:


> Nobody I know uses ladders to work a tree... I can easily body thrust to thirty feet without hesitation... Using a big shot then srt/wraptor means you will have to switch over climbing systems. A waste of time and energy. Not everything needs to be complicated and motorized.



I plan to use my wench with my existing set-up. I won't even have to unclip, a ground man will just take my climbing line off the spool.

Ah yes, the wisdom of youth. In time you will develop methods to to make you more productive in trees. For me getting up that first 30' by climbing a ladder (I have a fiberglass Werner 28' extension) I save my energy for working the tree. 

In the job I posted about above there were six trees to trim. I'll do the math for you ~ that's 180' of body thrusting I didn't have to do. How fast can you body thrust 180' on a 95 degree day, and how would you feel when you got there?

Here is my prefered method to climb a tree:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJEHNoIRTYU

If I could I'd hire a helicopter to take me to the job and just set me in the top at the TIP.


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## sgreanbeans (Dec 27, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> I shiver when I think of some of my earlier thought processes but was on a mission to earn a living.




Man, I think we all shiver at what we used to do!
One of you posted a while back a story on an Indian(Gandhi type), climbing Date Palms with no safety gear, crazy amount of deaths in it. They interviewed this old man, like 75-80 years old, who was ripped like Jesus, by the way! He said something that stuck with me.
"Fear is for the Educated, I am not Educated, so I have no Fear"
I lot of wisdom is in that little statement from an old, OLD climber!


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## the Aerialist (Dec 27, 2010)

*I'll raise your 60 and call at 70 ...*



Slvrmple72 said:


> What if you still like climbing even into your fifties?... Sixties?
> 
> Treevet, You said you would go for the Wraptor over the GRCS if given the choice, is that because in all of your years of experience you had other better or equivalent gear to the GRCS? or because you just do not use it as much even though you do have it compared to the usefulness of the Wraptor?
> 
> I have a Wraptor in the budget for next year, not if, just when! I am still a little shy of forty yet!



I just spent $120 on a Pora-Wrap, (my third) and with my wench and Petzl block and tackle I can do most lifting I am likely to run into. I'm a gear junkie (my wife calls my stuff "climbing Bling") so both the GCRS and Wraptor appeal to my nature.

I would probably try to trip Treevet on his rush to the picnic table, but if I did get there first I'd most likely grab the GCRS because I believe I can build a better Wraptor that I don't have to take up with me.


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## treevet (Dec 27, 2010)

mr. holden wood said:


> Just because hes' done it for ever doesn't mean I need to model my career after his. He needs a tool like the wraptor, hopefully he will get a motorized ascender for his wheel chair at the rate his business is going



How old are you? You are still an employee and my guess is you are over 35? I started my own biz at 22.

Not likely to need a wheelchair soon. I can go out the door right now and run 6, 7 plus minute miles and do often.

I am very content with the "rate my business is going". I have more equipment than national franchise companies, got mass wealthy clients, makes gobs of money and............still GET to climb. Numbnuts like you hate climbing, prob get pushed around by the foreman and come on the forum and take your inadaquacies out on posters. You are the grumpiest poster I have ever run into on any of the major forums.



> In my opinion if im climbing in my fifties, I made some poor decisions along the way


.

proves above point. 

I have to admit I prob am a bit of a physical freak. At least that is what 30 year olds say that I play racquetball with....but I have made myself this mostly (that and being a treeman).



> A very wise climber told me this is a young mans game and i agree. If im not running a successful tree service in my fifties ,at minimum Ill be supervising one, definitely not climbing


.

I am "running a successful tree service" and have been for 40 years. Live in a $400,000 plus house, drive a new one ton silverado, bought the wife a new BMW 3 series all wheel drive station wagon, have tons of toys, put 3 kids through college, live in an exclusive neighborhood in a upper middle class town. All this with just me and 1 groundman.

Again proves my point that you are not even a supervisor. You likely can get the jobs done but your attitude and ignorance is holding (holden) you back. That leaves you "holden wood (a woody by yourself lol)". You think people hate climbing but it is just you and your "wise climber" friends (prob hate climbing from being around your sadsack ahss).

There is an entire club on Buzz that has an annual contest called "geezers" that LOVE climbing unlike you. They wake, eat, train, practice, equip, sleep and dream climbing. Climbing is the love of my life. Without it you are just a has been that could be sitting in any cubicle anywhere with some knowledge of tree care and my guess is you have very little knowledge as well.

You probably drink your misery away but this in turn causes more misery for you and those around you. Get some help and maybe smile in the mirror once a while. (I'll send bill for perscription).


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## sgreanbeans (Dec 27, 2010)

Kablam!


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## tree MDS (Dec 27, 2010)

sgreanbeans said:


> Kablam!



Oh, I dont know, some good jabs from holden as well if you ask me..

AA, I wouldn't be buying a GRCS for what you're thinking.. trust me it's been tried before.


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## sgreanbeans (Dec 27, 2010)

I know, just trying to lighten the mood! Mood? did I spell that right! Mude, Mewed,Muud, gotta be Mood!


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## treevet (Dec 27, 2010)

Aerial Arborist said:


> I can build a better Wraptor that I don't have to take up with me.



That is a pipe dream (guess what's in that pipe) , and taking the machine up with you is a positive and of no consequence. You can stop and go and do work going up as I do....often. I have probably been up on this machine over 200 times in the less than a year I have it. You can leave it in the tree and send down later, send it right down in a second, or whatever....

GRCS....wayyyy overrated. But I may buy one anyway sometime.......if only to not let an armchair arborist like treeho say he has something I don't have. Maybe a market will come up for breeding spider eggs someday and it will come into another use.

I am getting tired of defending this thread from dunce cap wearing pseudo arbs. I get nothing out of advocating it but it is just a smart money making machine. I could care less about the guy that invented it, I just have become the one that defends it where one time I knocked it for its cost when I did not have one. I just defend it like I would an ms200, stihl saws, bc 2000, Dingo, crane, buckets, stumpers, sprayers, timberwolf stuff, etc etc and all the stuff I have that makes me money.

I learn stuff all the time on this forum and try to pay it back from seasoned experience and talking up stuff that works. And not let ignorant people get away with dismissing stuff from ignorance or boneheaded attitudes.

Yeah....holden wood is gonna body thrust and polesaw advance his line and his fat ahss up the tree and be working before a guy on a wraptor :hmm3grin2orange:


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## treevet (Dec 27, 2010)

sgreanbeans said:


> I know, just trying to lighten the mood! Mood? did I spell that right! Mude, Mewed,Muud, gotta be Mood!





rood....rude....ro addd? From Black Sheep with Chris Farley


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## treevet (Dec 27, 2010)

tree MDS said:


> Oh, I dont know, some good jabs from holden as well if you ask me..
> 
> AA, I wouldn't be buying a GRCS for what you're thinking.. trust me it's been tried before.



you remind me of Holden a little....only a funny (at times) holden

always on the verge of quittin and hatin it most of the time (likely from too much unhappy juice)


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## treeseer (Dec 27, 2010)

"My biggest problem with seniors is the inability to see things anyway but there own."

So true!

"In my opinion if im climbing in my fifties, I made some poor decisions along the way."

So false! for an arborist, anyway. If getting into trees is such a lowly chore, then you are not into trees imo and maybe in the wrong gig. The most overrated haberdashery is a white hat. There's an Ubergeezer category for 60+ and there are 3 of us signed up so far, I hear. 

Climbing is eternal. So Dave are you going to show your stuff at the geezers?
It may be fun to be the king here in this virtual reality, but the trouble is...

it ain't real. umpkin2:

Windermere FL Jan 21. Be there or be cubical, or in a cubicle.


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## treevet (Dec 27, 2010)

treeseer said:


> "My biggest problem with seniors is the inability to see things anyway but there own."
> 
> So true!
> 
> ...



How bout you and me just set up a contest and have at it with witnesses. I don't have time for that extravagance right now...I just bought a new crane and paying the bills is where it is at for me right now.


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## the Aerialist (Dec 27, 2010)

*Got a Link?*



tree MDS said:


> ... I wouldn't be buying a GRCS for what you're thinking.. trust me it's been tried before.



I have a capstan wench already, I'm talking about giving it another job. I use it now only rarely, and mostly for dragging stuff, not lifting. I'd like to get more use out of it, if it works great if it doesn't no loss except time to fiddle with it.


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## tree MDS (Dec 27, 2010)

Aerial Arborist said:


> I have a capstan wench already, I'm talking about giving it another job. I use it now only rarely, and mostly for dragging stuff, not lifting. I'd like to get more use out of it, if it works great if it doesn't no loss except time to fiddle with it.



I got you now. I actually thought about that years ago, now that you bring it up. Never bothered trying it though. It wasn't worth the money for the winch, or whatever to me I guess. Besides, I was probably busy spending it on wenches and booze at the time.


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## Reg (Dec 27, 2010)

Rickytree said:


> Thanks Reg!
> 
> I see your points on the system of the double bollard. Hey when are you coming to Vancouver!



Probably sometime after the winter Ricky, although the wife and I will have to start getting along a little better first


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## treeseer (Dec 27, 2010)

treevet said:


> How bout you and me just set up a contest and have at it with witnesses. I don't have time for that extravagance right now...I just bought a new crane and paying the bills is where it is at for me right now.


Have at it? What is "it"?? The geezers is not about pissing contests, unlike almost every thread you join in on. :sword:

More toys, more bills, more work. More toys,...then ya die, and give the bills to yer kidz. Not the plan I want to follow; though it does make an almost-convincing alibi. And I'm as enthusiastic as you about the wraptor, but it's not a Tool for clubbing others.

O and if there has to be a contest, my money's on holden and his ladder and polesaw in many trees, most maples for instance in my parts. 

Happy New Year! Come to Columbus on Valentine's Day, and we'll laugh about AS. After all, it ain't real, ya know...


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## ropensaddle (Dec 27, 2010)

tree MDS said:


> Oh, I dont know, some good jabs from holden as well if you ask me..
> 
> AA, I wouldn't be buying a GRCS for what you're thinking.. trust me it's been tried before.



I think grcs are a good tool how ever my monies are limited to most bank for a buck. I, having a large winch on my bucket can lift tip ties if necessary(almost never are) so; the value to me personally is not cost effective; yet. However; an elevator ride to canopy hmmmmm, let me see, now that is something the rope can see beneficial. No it is not a necessity but I can see the value and cost per productivity panning out. If you can't appreciate the saved energy and added production then you have a visualization deficit imo. I think how many more crown cleanings and dead wooding jobs can I effectively get done extra per day. It is my guess; it could be very substantial and it could be used to rescue as well. I have not had one and I can see their benefit, I wonder why that is


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## Rickytree (Dec 27, 2010)

It gets you up there with no effort. Sound good now. Sounds Fantastic in the summer when its 100 Degrees out( someone here knew about the degree symbol). Like when you start sweating when you wake up then go to work all day and come home and sweat. Ya those days. I wants to conserve energy whenever I can. And in this game called Life, there is a right way and a dumb way to do just about anything, I chose the right lane(way) anyone who comes on here arguing about new technology can just follow the dumb lane to Stupidsville. I heard the population is really taking off. I at first thought the wraptor was a weak sounding mosquito winch. But with further interest I found out that it is a great piece of equipment to add to my list of tools..


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## tree MDS (Dec 27, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> I think grcs are a good tool how ever my monies are limited to most bank for a buck. I, having a large winch on my bucket can lift tip ties if necessary(almost never are) so; the value to me personally is not cost effective; yet. However; an elevator ride to canopy hmmmmm, let me see, now that is something the rope can see beneficial. No it is not a necessity but I can see the value and cost per productivity panning out. If you can't appreciate the saved energy and added production then you have a visualization deficit imo. I think how many more crown cleanings and dead wooding jobs can I effectively get done extra per day. It is my guess; it could be very substantial and it could be used to rescue as well. I have not had one and I can see their benefit, I wonder why that is



I would have probably bought a wraptor this year, just to have the cool new toy, if nothing else. I bought that cab and chassis though, which pretty much sucked any free money. Definitely more bang for the buck than a GRCS - to me anyway (assuming you do a lot of tall tree pruning).

Admittedly I never used the GRCS I have sitting here too much, but it seems like far from a necessity to me (nice to have here and there though).. a little too much to put in the hands of the average ground guy imo.


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## tree MDS (Dec 27, 2010)

And if I had my choice of all the lowering devices I've seen so far, I think Reg's dual bollard, with the rope tentioner, would be the most useful in everyday treework (at least for the way I rig).

Sorry for any derail..


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## treevet (Dec 27, 2010)

treeseer said:


> Have at it? What is "it"?? The geezers is not about pissing contests, unlike almost every thread you join in on. :sword:
> ...



You are the one that pulled the wang out. 

How about "it" being you drop down here from Columbus (right on your way) before or after Valentines Day and I hang 4 or 5 bells in a big syc with my Teco and the one that rings them all in the best time pissed the farthest....no engines allowed?

We get anyone nearby to be the judge. Then dinner's on me like I have offered before. Some good food in this town.

That's as real as it gets.


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## lxt (Dec 27, 2010)

Columbus has a nice Lamborghini dealership!! I say I just might be able to swing by to judge just such an event!! would be fun!!


LXT.................


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## treevet (Dec 27, 2010)

lxt said:


> Columbus has a nice Lamborghini dealership!! I say I just might be able to swing by to judge just such an event!! would be fun!!
> 
> 
> LXT.................



It would have to be Cinci lxt.....I got access to trees down here.

You shopping for a Lamborghini?


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## treevet (Dec 27, 2010)

This is gonna be my very LAST post on Wraptors...period.

I can kinda understand back in the day when a guy got himself together a nice horse and buggy and all of a sudden, down the pot holed dirt road comes .....aaaaaooooooooggaaaaaa....one of those new fangled counfounded awtooomobeeells, dagnabit. 

I am kind of a goal oriented type and it is good for the post count to mix it up a little with combustible types.....anywho.....right near my goal of 5k by 2011.... soooo...bye bye wraptor thread.

Pm me if you want to get "it" on ole treeseer. I think you got embare assed into buying a Wraptor when you screwed up and they ran a 10 page thread slammin you over on Treehouse for puttin the safety back up on backwards and almost killing yourself with the demo unit.......You did good in the long run by buying it anyway bud.


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## mr. holden wood (Dec 28, 2010)

Not likely to need a wheelchair soon. I can go out the door right now and run 6, 7 plus minute miles and do often.




I have to admit I prob am a bit of a physical freak. At least that is what 30 year olds say that I play racquetball with....but I have made myself this mostly (that and being a treeman).

.

I am "running a successful tree service" and have been for 40 years. Live in a $400,000 plus house, drive a new one ton silverado, bought the wife a new BMW 3 series all wheel drive station wagon, have tons of toys, put 3 kids through college, live in an exclusive neighborhood in a upper middle class town. All this with just me and 1 groundman.



Came home from a hard day, read this post and realized that things could be worse. At least im not a total **********.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Dec 28, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> Probably great for old timer's, just a ride for the young guy's.
> Jeff



The problem with your statement is you are looking at one tree. The biggest fatigue factor for a climber is ascension, so it often allows an extra tree or two at the end of a long day. 

I find that with big trees it has changed my pattern in the tree. I treat it as several pitches where I work down a side/section then use The Toy to go back up again to reset.

On wooded areas where I am working several trees from a single pitch, I will use The Toy as my TIP. Building clearance is a breeze when there is a good SRT multi-crotch lace for the ascent rope.

Even with evergreens I can work up one, and then down another (Paul cautions against working on ascent with the Wraptor, CYA on his part). 

I use it on removals, with my spikes on, and I can go up with several blocks, a saw, and rigging line on my saddle w/o any real effort. 

It makes it so much easier to set a block in an adjacent tree that I might not w/o the toy, because it is a PITA to set/retrieve. 

When there is a groundguy with throwball skills, then things are that much more efficient. 

Another tool where the assumptions of those who have never used it are counter-productive.


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 28, 2010)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> The problem with your statement is you are looking at one tree. The biggest fatigue factor for a climber is ascension, so it often allows an extra tree or two at the end of a long day.
> 
> I find that with big trees it has changed my pattern in the tree. I treat it as several pitches where I work down a side/section then use The Toy to go back up again to reset.
> 
> ...



Counter-productive? How is me making an 'off the cuff' remark, counter-productive? No assumptions made. Wraptor 's been around awhile and I am sure they are great. 
Jeff


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## John Paul Sanborn (Dec 28, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> Counter-productive? How is me making an 'off the cuff' remark, counter-productive? No assumptions made. Wraptor 's been around awhile and I am sure they are great.
> Jeff



Ruling it out summarily for skilled young climbers is keeping it out of your companies tool kit. Having one that can used a few times out of the week by different crews could be very productive for a company that regularly works in several big euc's.


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## lxt (Dec 28, 2010)

treevet said:


> It would have to be Cinci lxt.....I got access to trees down here.
> 
> You shopping for a Lamborghini?





No!! My Daughter has a love for the car so I took her out to the dealership for a tour & pic`s.............she loved it. Hell, I got in trouble for just opening the door on the "cheap" $265,000.00 Gilardo. eh um Sir...please do not touch the Lambo`s, LOL

Seer.........did you get roasted for improper use of an aboriculture ascending device?? LMFAO.......the article writer, guru of trees, advocate of all that is tree good *seer* of the universe????? WOW.

Give em hell Treevet!!!!



LXT...............


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## Rickytree (Dec 28, 2010)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> The problem with your statement is you are looking at one tree. The biggest fatigue factor for a climber is ascension, so it often allows an extra tree or two at the end of a long day.
> 
> I find that with big trees it has changed my pattern in the tree. I treat it as several pitches where I work down a side/section then use The Toy to go back up again to reset.
> 
> ...





What size saw are you bringing up and what is your weight? Thanks for the post.


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## tree MDS (Dec 28, 2010)

I'm liking the sound sound of wraptoring my way up, then using the taughtline once I get up there.. sounds like a solid plan to me. Thanks for the idea Treeco!


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## ropensaddle (Dec 28, 2010)

I just can't get my mind around anyone not seeing the benefits to effortless ascent .
I got my big shot as soon as I could afford it and am going to try and save for the wraptor next and the next Ice storm will pay big dividends.


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## Rickytree (Dec 28, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> I just can't get my mind around anyone not seeing the benefits to effortless ascent .



Kinda what I was thinkin when I ordered it. Also more productivity was a real seller for me. I am sure I'm not going to regret it when I clip in and take my first ride. Can't wait!! It's goin to be like this guy>:yoyo: I owe I owe it's up,cut and down I go!


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## pdqdl (Dec 28, 2010)

lxt said:


> Seer.........did you get roasted for improper use of an aboriculture ascending device?? LMFAO.......the article writer, guru of trees, advocate of all that is tree good *seer* of the universe????? WOW.
> 
> LXT...............



Leave ol' Seer alone. The tree was perfectly safe throughout. 

Besides, his little mistake really wasn't that bad. He was always tied on.


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## Rickytree (Feb 26, 2011)

Took my first flight on Thursday and it was spectacular. I love this device. Lots of power and just fast enough. Can't wait to go do some large deadwooding jobs.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Feb 27, 2011)

Rickytree said:


> I owe I owe it's up,cut and down I go!


 
Same here, it was the first time I did not pay cash for a medium priced piece of equipment. First time since I broke my foot 6 years a go that I kept a balance one the card too.  paying that kind of interest is like selling my dog, Good Lord it Hurts


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## Rickytree (Feb 27, 2011)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> Same here, it was the first time I did not pay cash for a medium priced piece of equipment. First time since I broke my foot 6 years a go that I kept a balance one the card too.  paying that kind of interest is like selling my dog, Good Lord it Hurts


 
The way I look at it even the interest is a write off.. Your doin good if you were paying for everything up front. What a item though... I LOVE the Wraptor..


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## John Paul Sanborn (Feb 27, 2011)

Rickytree said:


> The way I look at it even the interest is a write off.. Your doin good if you were paying for everything up front. What a item though... I LOVE the Wraptor..


 
It is a great too, and I bill out an extra $20 each day I use it. A total of 125 days and it will be paid off and earning money.

People are amazed at where I lace the SRE (single rope entry, just to be contrary) line to work outer canopy jobs, such as building clearance. My bigaz with a saw and blocks just effortlessly elevating up.


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## Rickytree (Feb 27, 2011)

I look forward to the big spurless climbs. I bought a snow broom from Costco about a year ago and it came with a 20 foot extendable pole with snow blade. Well just bought a folding saw with the same end which is the screw type(like a broom) and now I got a 22 foot polesaw for about 80 bucks. With these two new additions big trees are a breeze.


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## jefflovstrom (Feb 27, 2011)

Rickytree said:


> I look forward to the big spurless climbs. I bought a snow broom from Costco about a year ago and it came with a 20 foot extendable pole with snow blade. Well just bought a folding saw with the same end which is the screw type(like a broom) and now I got a 22 foot polesaw for about 80 bucks. With these two new additions big trees are a breeze.



Dang! I am glad I don't live in Canada!
Jeff :msp_lol:


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## Rickytree (Feb 27, 2011)

jefflovstrom said:


> Dang! I am glad I don't live in Canada!
> Jeff :msp_lol:


 
One of the Best Countries on Earth but Damn the winter sucks..


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## John Paul Sanborn (Feb 27, 2011)

jefflovstrom said:


> Dang! I am glad I don't live in Canada!
> Jeff :msp_lol:


 
Have you ever run a snowblower Jeff? Hows'about blowing the snow under the tree so you can work without lifting your legs to your knees


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## jefflovstrom (Feb 27, 2011)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> Have you ever run a snowblower Jeff? Hows'about blowing the snow under the tree so you can work without lifting your legs to your knees


 
Never have,


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## treemandan (Feb 27, 2011)

That Wraptor ain't nothing, we got monkies with friggin lazers attched to their heads.


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## Rickytree (Feb 27, 2011)

treemandan said:


> That Wraptor ain't nothing, we got monkies with friggin lazers attched to their heads.


 
Dan the Man seems alittle up tight lately with his responses. Has the wife been preforming her wifely duties? or is this cabin fever you gots?


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## treemandan (Feb 27, 2011)

Rickytree said:


> Dan the Man seems alittle up tight lately with his responses. Has the wife been preforming her wifely duties? or is this cabin fever you gots?


 
Probably cabin fever. These monkies are really starting to drive me nuts.


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## Rickytree (Feb 27, 2011)

treemandan said:


> Probably cabin fever. These monkies are really starting to drive me nuts.


 
Ya I gots it too. Got out last week then this snow came again. Surprisingly been getting some calls though.. Soon sweat, sawdust, and sunburn is in the near future.


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