# Line Clearance Certification



## NebClimber (Jul 11, 2005)

I am looking into doing line clearance work. I am not sure how to obtain "certification". Looks like a number of entities will give line clearance certification, including the ISA, the TCIA, and others. Can one legally contract to clear lines w/o certification if the utility company does not require it? Is OSHA compliance the only controlling legal facor in this case?

NebClimber


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## xander9727 (Jul 11, 2005)

I would proceed with caution. You really should look into taking a class on line clearance. Tom Dunlap taught a EHAP class a month ago that I sent my employees to. Ask him when the next one is. It only cost $15 and it could save your life. Making money is great but with line clearance you may only get one mistake. A little knowledge could really extend your life expectancy. I got certified through ACRT. I need it for certain jobs just to bid on them and I really like to know what I am doing. I strongly recomment ACRT. They are very professional and focus on the skills not the gear. My $.02


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## diltree (Jul 11, 2005)

*Certification*

Its about liability; the number one cause of fatalities in agriculture is electrocution. I don't know of any line clearance contracts that do not require certification. Every one my company has ever bid required all your line trimmers be certified. Without certification, or without receiving documented training from an experienced line trimmer you are not " qualified" by OSHA standards. The result being you have no business being within 10 feet of a primary, even if it is just a private job. We Use to work for Boston Edison, Mass Electric, and a few municipal light departments. Now we are down to one line clearance contract in our home town. Asplundh had the rates SO low in our area there is very little money in it any more, and you have to own so many rigs no more then 6 years old, just to be a qualified bidder. There is much more money in the private work. If you do go in that direction, you will need certified employees, on the books at your states prevailing wages for line trimmers and groundman.


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## diltree (Jul 11, 2005)

In addition, our employees are certified through the ACRT, but the ISA does certification as well now. The only catch is you have to be a certified arborist to take the ISA test, this is not the case with the ACRT. The ACRT's program, is actually hands on not a written test like the ISA. The hands on seminar is much better in my opinion, cause knowing what your doing will save your life, line clearance is no joke.


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## Tom Dunlap (Jul 11, 2005)

There will be two EHAP trainings in Portsmouth, NH at the end of August. One is penciled in Atlanta at the end of September, nothing firm yet. Another is hoped for on our western islands to  Any word Leon?

Certification means many things. The best way to know exactly what is required is to ask the utility that you're bidding from. There are many definitions so make sure you have the right paperwork.


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## NebClimber (Jul 11, 2005)

I have already completed an EHAP through the TCIA. Some contracts for smaller towns in this area have been awarded to outfits with absolutely no training in electrical clearance and little experience in tree trimming. No certification from any authority on either clearance or general tree work. When I heard as much I did not believe it to be true. But it is. I enlisted in the EHAP simply to aid in my private work. After the program I was confused as to what it meant to be "certified" in the field, and what it meant to be "qualified". I conclude that a utility is free let a contract for clearance to anyone whatsoever (it may choose to impose stipulations), but OSHA guidelines dictate safe work practices. And that's about all there is to it.

Sound about right?


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## Tree Wizard (Jul 11, 2005)

Being an ISA Certified Arborist / Utility Specialist does not make you a qualified line clearance trimmer. Although a qualified line clearance trimmer can certainly become an ISA Certified Arborist / Utility Specialist.

OSHA speaks of only qualified line clearance trimmers being able to get closer than 10' to electrical conductors. The ANSI Z133 has definitions of what qualified line clearance trimmers and qualified line clearance trimmer trainees are.


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## diltree (Jul 11, 2005)

If what you say is true, things are pretty messed up in your state. There is not one Line clearance contract in mass that does not require some sort of certification to work around " their wires". A. you could kill yourself if you don't know what your doing, resulting in OSHA investigation. B. You could burn the wires down, resulting in a lost of income for the utility, that pre-buys their electricity, which counters the whole purpose of providing clearance. Are you sure you are reading the contracts closely enough, maybe the town manager who usually awards the contracts in small towns, is letting it slip, and all you have to do is speak up to have the low bid thrown out.


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## NebClimber (Jul 11, 2005)

diltree:

You hit the plan on the head. I want to become qualified to work around power lines to meet OSHA standards. Certification from some authority would carry some weight in demonstrating such qualification to a contracting utility. Then I would point out to the utility the exact expectations of OSHA and how my company plans to meet compliance. The potential liability - or plain foolishness - in hiring unqualified contractors would then become glaringly evident to the utility. Hopefully, the end result being my acquisition of the contract. But this is a few years away. I am just starting to set the table.


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## matthias (Jul 11, 2005)

Tree Wizard said:


> Being an ISA Certified Arborist / Utility Specialist does not make you a qualified line clearance trimmer. Although a qualified line clearance trimmer can certainly become an ISA Certified Arborist / Utility Specialist.



Good call Tree Wizard. The course I took for qualified line clearance trimmer was 10 days long and while the electrical training was a must the climbing training was terrible: spike up with lanyard (I had a polestrap) tie a tautline and rappel down. You should have seen that stand of poplars after 15 guys spiked the piss out of them for two days.


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## clearance (Jul 13, 2005)

Matthias-ha ha hilarios about the poplars, b.f.d.. I am a certified utility arborist in B.C.. Two year course, six weeks at school, 1200 hours of supervised work around the power from12kv to 500 kv.
The I.S.A should stay away from powerline work, they should stick to what they know. One mistake and its over for you, but not for your family or co-workers, they don't call it power for nothing.


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## diltree (Jul 13, 2005)

I agree clearance, you do not want people gaining a false sense of security around the lines, just because they have a certification from the I.S.A.....we require certification and two years experience on the ground with a line clearance crew before you come anywhere near ten ft. of a primary.


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## NeTree (Jul 14, 2005)

diltree said:


> I agree clearance, you do not want people gaining a false sense of security around the lines, just because they have a certification from the I.S.A.....we require certification and two years experience on the ground with a line clearance crew before you come anywhere near ten ft. of a primary.




Ditto. It may look easy from the ground, but it's an art, for sure.


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## lxt (Jul 18, 2005)

nebclimber, If you want lctt line clearance tree trimmer cert. pittsburgh`s local 1919 is the best!! ISA and Acrt thats garbage this local provides all aspects of tree trimming and to boot it was them who pilgrimed this cert. anyway. utility tree trimmers were defined as migrant farmworkers Local 1919 changed that & now the isa & acrt wanna make $$$$ training people what a joke they are!! niagra mohawk in up state NY. has lctt training also good group of guys, my advice jump into an apprenticeship and obtain your credentials cause isa & acrt will charge ya!! and when you come to my local and wanna job you gonna be tested for journeyman status and ISA and ACRT`s training program wont even scratch what a 1st rate apprentice knows!! good luck choose the right path!!!! DOUG LXT.............


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## xander9727 (Jul 18, 2005)

Union jobs are the best............if you like coffee breaks.......limits in salary.......coffee breaks.......dues.....being taught at a fourth grade level........coffee breaks.......overpaying for benefits.......being told how long it takes to learn something......coffee breaks........having to quit your job because some of the people you work with feel they should be paid more.........having to work for several companies in the same year, month, week.......coffee breaks........having to stop working as fast as you can for fear of becoming an outcaste.......working for some incompetent boob because he's been there longer than you.......coffee breaks......being told what kind of car you have to drive.........using inferior equipment because it is on the union ok list......coffee breaks......

Your right LXT unions ROCK!!!!!!!


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## diltree (Jul 18, 2005)

*Acrt*

I was ACRT trained as well as a line clearance apprentice, and i have been working around the wires for several years. I have done allot of trimming and some serious take downs around open(bare) 3-phase; without burning the lines down or causing an outage. Id have to say that the ACRT helped me become a cautious, safe, and efficient utility specialist. Why would you attack the ACRT without ever taking part in the program.


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## xander9727 (Jul 18, 2005)

That's a really good question diltree...........I can't wait for the answer.


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## lxt (Jul 21, 2005)

diltree, did take part in their program problem is they are now a money oriented bunch of booksmart knowitalls. their programs are a good foundation, but far from realistic your one of the lucky ones!! ive seen what their program puts out 90% are nowhere near ready for lctt trimming. oh & zander 972736 etc... LOCAL 1919 ya know coffee break central. helps acrt with job placement and provides training references(books,manuals,etc...) this local pilgrimed their lctt classes. but acrt saw a money making opportunity and all who attend will pay, and pay you will.!!!! LXT


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## stehansen (Jul 21, 2005)

The only companies doing line clearance work around here are the big guys, Davey, Asplundh, Trees Inc., and Windy. 

Last year I had a guy working for me who used to work for Davey and Asplundh, and he said that he worked on the ground for six months, then was promoted to apprentice climber and started working under the guidance of a certified line clearance trimmer and after another six months they handed him his line clearance card.


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## stehansen (Jul 21, 2005)

I have to tell you a Davey tree story.

I had a job taking down a 50' bull pine tree that was between the power lines and a construction company office. There was approximately 20' between the office and the lines with the tree being right in the middle. The tree went about 20' higher than the lines. The construction company owner was pretty nervous about us doing it so he called the power company guy and had him meet me and him at the tree to discuss any hazards. The power company guy said that his guys (Davey Tree) would take the tree down to the level of the lines and leave everything there there for us to clean up and we could take it from there. This was agreeable to me and the next morning the Davey Tree guys were there and they had 2 crews and trucks, and were setting up to take the whole top down at one time. I mentioned to my guy that it looked like too big of a piece and that it would drag on the top of the office roof. Well it was even worse than that. He rigged a false crotch with a block and sling at the level of the power lines and had us helping hold the rope wrapped around another tree. When he cut it the block pulled right through the loop in the sling and the whole thing came down with no control what so ever right on top of the office roof. The office was a metal building with a white foam roof on it and the top of the pine tree poked over a hundred holes in the foam. There was no structural damage to the building and the nervous construction company owner was fuming mad, and all of his office ladies were all standing in the parking lot as they had come running out of the office when the peice hit the roof. We just stood there and we really felt like the "good" tree company. This is my only experience with "line clearance".


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## xander9727 (Jul 21, 2005)

lxt,
Why'd ya edit your post? I kinda got a kick out of the other one.
ROTFLOL


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## lxt (Jul 22, 2005)

I didnt edit my post, possible site retraction dont know! but you got to read it. look, in this trade everyones better than the other guy & vice versa. then you got people entering the trade with no exp. so the consumer out cry is overwhelming thus wonderful little entities such as ACRT & ISA emerge. now their large entities that have become so political and money hungry they manufacture new cert. programs only to have all of us believe you need it or you will fail!!! whatever happened to training or apprenticing with a good tradesman and learning all you can. this is why I recommended this local, good training,good people and a good wage. SO, xander like in the post that never posted?? when the lights go out in your area and your utility request`s the best for the job we`ll be there & I might just take my coffee break in your front yard!!! we`ll get the power on so you wont miss scooby doo or is it the power rangers? AHH WHATTA RUSH LXT..................


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## JJackson (Jul 22, 2005)

lxt...I did not think the ISA ever claimed to offer line clearance certification, the utility specialist has nothing to do with line clearance certification. I must also add that my union crews (in house) only get two 15 minute break a day and a half hour lunch. The are highly trained and have very modern equipment and arbor master training and make our unionized contrator look silly when the jobs become difficult. The crews that work for the utility I work for are some of the hardest workers in the local, which includes the meter readers, linesmen, constuction etc... we are out in all weather at all time. When the meter readers are hidding in a warm office we are standing in a backyard deep in snow doing routine pruning right next to the meter that is "not safe" to read because of the snow.


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## lxt (Jul 24, 2005)

jamie, i couldnt agree more all weather conditions and breaks are not what they were in 1975(steel mill era.)as far as the utility specialist cert. the ISA offers it for management in the line clearance field read the specs on it.(atleast my understanding). problem I have with this is mr./mrs. I cant climb gets an office job, now they get a few years in and whalla a written exam and pull an arborist/utility specialist out of the hat. But these people are better than mr. 25yrs in the trade and has saw all types of new trimming techniques and several language changes and has adapted to the criteria to met each new demand!!! I just think their is no written exam gonna make you/ apprenticeships and handson are how one learns this trade. be safe, take care LXT................


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## lxt (Jul 24, 2005)

Jamie, are you management? and whats your climbing resume? cause that utility specialist cert. is a joke(sorry bro.) ahh... you`ll get the board cert. master arborist cert next ha!!!! plleeaassee, this is exactly what im talkin about. keep up your dues & pay those recert. fees but guess what??? you still need the guy/girl to climb up there, hangout there and cut it off. who else is gonna do it MANAGEMENT!!!


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## diltree (Jul 24, 2005)

Lxt......Are you seriously sh!tting on the Board Certified Master Arborist, do you even realize how knowledgeable you have to be to pass that test. You are sounding more ignorant the more posts you leave. Chill out no one is disagreeing with your statement that your local provides good training, we take your word for it


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## NeTree (Jul 24, 2005)

lxt, try to treat others with the respect you'd like to recieve, please.


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## NeTree (Jul 24, 2005)

AH, but I had a great teacher... a veteran of 30+ years.


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## xander9727 (Jul 24, 2005)

I just kinda wing it as I go  As long as nothing sparks I guess I'm doing it right.


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## lxt (Jul 25, 2005)

diltree & netree, I did not intend to be disrespectful, and as far as knowledgeable cmon, board cert. mst arborist what happened to the cert, arborist program the NAA used to have I know!!! a cert. arborist was the highest level you could attain, but there were only what 48/50 cert. arbs east of the mississippi. NAA`s dues could not carry them so another entity takes over cheapens the requirements and whaalla 1600 cert. arbs. agree or not. I took NAA`s test hard wasnt the word and you were told you would have to retake. you had to pass a skills exam,id trees from 3 sources, diagnose and prescribe(the botanical name for.) knot testing, safety testing, written exam and more..(I still have my results) the domain I failed was diagnose & prescribe I was a mere 22/23yrs old. point is the requirements have considerably cheapened all for the mighty dollar whats next? galactic arborist commander. LXT.............


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## NeTree (Jul 25, 2005)

LOL lxt... but there is a truth to what you're saying, no doubt.


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## diltree (Jul 25, 2005)

Thats funny Lxt.....but the I.S.A. certification exam is not exactly easy to pass, domains covering the practical, such as risk assessment, climbing and working in trees, cabling and bracing, and domains that assess your knowledge of agriculture; disease and diagnosis, tree biology, fertilization, ext....Plus a regional tree I.d list containing both common names and botanical names. Passing the test defiantly proves you are a knowledgeable arborist. The board certification is on an entire different level, it is far more intense, passing it makes you an expert "arborist". It doesn't certify that you are a great climber or a technician when taking down a difficult tree, but certainly proves you are an expert on any level of tree assessment or consultation pertaining to preservation or tree health care. I don't agree with the C.E.U.'s and all the other ways that the I.S.A. gets $$$ from you, but i do believe in the credibility certification provides, just as the training and certification your local provides makes you a credible and "qualified" Line Clearance tree trimmer.


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## lxt (Jul 26, 2005)

diltree, look I understand the need for knowledge, its attained through want not have to. ISA`s exam is no where near what the NAA offered years ago believe me folks in my local have their cert`s through the ISA, my problem is management!!! obtaining a credential in a field that they are unable to do #1 climb, what good is all that knowledge if you cant apply it? better yet how about those individuals show me how to do it since my production could always improve, no disrespect, but I dont need some piece of paper even though I have it! CREDIBILITY!!! when I put on my tools and do what I do & all the big shots are watchin thats credible cause they dont,wont or cant do it & they let me know it! & I respect that, but dont take a multple choice exam and think your all that!! & in your post you state EXPERT arborist what happened to C.A. being the hallmark as in their brochure this was the highest level. truth is they will keep conjuring up different cert. programs so they can make more $$$$, sorry the ISA to me is a dues agency, heres your union xander. LXT


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## diltree (Jul 26, 2005)

*lXt*

I understand what you are trying to say LXt......I come from a family of tree care professionals, two of my brothers and my father are not arborists and hold no certifications (Except Line Clearance), yet can dominate any one in our area taking down a tree, in any situation. They are truelly experts in the field; on any tree removal, yet they are not experts in the field of agriculture. They don't understand trees like a Board certified arborist. The reason for this is they are separate entities. A tree surgeon is specific to trimming and take downs while an arborist is capable of some take-downs but also understands tree's and has a passion for tree preservation. An arborist knows when a tree needs to be taken down and also has alternatives for saving or preserving a declining tree when those options exist. I understand you may not like the I.S.A and the ways they make money, but when you sh*t on the certifications you also put down those who worked hard to obtain them. I have Met a couple board certified arborists and sought advise from some on this sight, and their knowledge of tree problems and solutions where unparalleled.


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## xander9727 (Jul 26, 2005)

Now I don't feel so bad........I'm not an expert in the field of agriculture either.


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## diltree (Jul 26, 2005)

Ya Xander, but you are an expert working around Utilities, a task many arborists want nothing to do with.


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## xander9727 (Jul 26, 2005)

If you meant that I really appreciate the compliment. I really do try and improve everyday. I know that there is a ton of stuff out there I don't know but I really try to learn something new or improve a skill I already have everyday. Maybe some day I can teach for a living.......other than my employees. I got line clearance certified to make me safer, more effective and marketable in my industry. I understand the dangers with electricity and I wanted to make sure I was always pursuing the expert path.........even though you do get one mistake.


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## JJackson (Jul 26, 2005)

lxt, yeah I am management and do not climb. I don't tell my guys how to do their job, just what tree needs the work and they do the rest, sometimes when they are up there they find something I did not see, so we take care of it if needed. I handle the parts they do not want to do, talking to customers, negotiating and educating. The certifications I obtained were job requirements and the additional knowledge that I took away has help with my understanding of trees. I read about climbing and other subjects in the arboriculture field to educate myself so that I know more of what is going on, not to be booksmart, I dont make suggestions about climbing to the crews that is the job of the foreman. My crews do not have too many issues with the work I give them, the odd time on their suggestion it gets changed from my initial perscription. Some do complain that I do not know how to climb, but that is only druing training and days off when they need help on a side job or just having fun. I dont regret the education and career path I chose that gave me the experience to get to my current situation, the pay check is not the only reward. I do regret not being able to climb but I am in the process of obtaining my equipment so that I can partcipate too. Basicaly I let my climbers do their thing and the let me do mine, just afternoon I educated some of them on what to look for to identify beetle infection in trees, their local does not take time to educate them like your lxt. Like you I would certainly take pride in a union that provides that. I am curious if some of the materials your local uses for training are available to others? I do the job the climbers dont want to do, I am not better or higher than they are, with out each other work does not progress. I do want to know about the training that your local provides.


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## lxt (Jul 27, 2005)

jjackson, for info regarding training & materials contact local 1919 greentree Pa, talk to Don or Dave, good guys, If for some reason they cant help they will advise of who can. I know when 1919 started their program, Davey,Naa,Acrt even Asplundh used our crewleaders for training future employees, then president Tom Walsh actually was responsible for bringing about LCTT certification and was recognized through fed dept of labor. since then many entities have formed cert. courses I know unions get a bad rap but these guys work and are good,knowlegeable and pridefull, I believe the pen-del chapter can help you out in contacting them also take care be safe..LXT....


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## boo (Dec 17, 2006)

Hi Folks,
Long time no visit...sry  
I know this is an old thread, but I need some new answers.
Where to send guys for line clearance certs. near central FL.?
Thanks for any help.


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