# Flat Feet and Spurs



## polingspig (Jan 5, 2007)

I am not a Cop, but I am flat footed. Is there anyone here with the any advice particularly for a flat footed guy climbing with spurs. I have been doing all of my work with a rope because of the pain, even removals. i am getting new boots and going to try the foot plates (already read all of the other threads). I was just hoping there might be a secret for dealing with the specific problems that come with Flat Feet. The outside of my feet (little toe to heel) start burning as soon as the straps are buckled for starters.


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## clearance (Jan 5, 2007)

Welcome, and maybe. I always climb with spurs and I wear heavy linesman boots. Steel toe, steel shank, very heavy thick soles, Vibram and then layers of leather. You can jump on spikes sticking straight up with these boots, I cannot feel my spurs even after climbing all day. Don't know about flat feet but I do know that the lighter the boot the more you feel it. Hope this helps.


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## polingspig (Jan 5, 2007)

Thanks Clearance. I will be getting new boots next week. Steel shank and vibram soles. I wore boots like them in the Air Force and they were great on all sorts of terrain (after the three year break-in period).


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## 1I'dJak (Jan 5, 2007)

I have that same problem...I 'cheaped out' and bought the $400 caulk boots instead of the $500+ pair (have to climb in caulk boots) and the bottom of my feet kill sometimes...I also have flat feet...it has shut me down for the day at times...it pretty painful and annoying, as all you can feel and think about is your feet....recently i got a guy to nail hard plastic plates under my arches (or where i should have arches!) onto my boot soles, and they seem to work somewhat... my feet hurt still, but not as much...I've also thought about foot plates, but we walk around a fair amount in the bush in our spurs (my gawd no!) and i wonder if plates will hamper 'foot dexterity'....


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## polingspig (Jan 5, 2007)

I would think any relief gained with the foot plates while in the tree would more than compensate for having to do a little "high-stepping" when on the ground. I know about the pain being bad enough to shut you down for the day. I can only get about 10 ft up a tree with spurs. I have to come straight down and walk it off for a good 20 minutes. That's why I'v been doing everything with ropes. If I could just stay in the trees with spurs removals would go faster.

I've never used boots with caulks before. How much better can they be when you're using spurs anyway?


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## 1I'dJak (Jan 5, 2007)

they offer a bit more grip when limbwalking etc., but i wear them cuz we climb for the logging industry and its mandatory to wear caulks in the bush... i would like to get another pair of res boots (lineman's or whatever) especially cuz i almost walked on someone's deck with them! but tight budget right now...


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## polingspig (Jan 5, 2007)

Were those plastic arche supports installed inside the boot? I had supprts like that when i was a kid. They just made my feet hurt so I took them out as soon as I was out of Mom's sight.

Have you been able to tell a difference by wrapping the bottom strap of your spurs around the spur itself as apposed to just around the boot and spur once?


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## 1I'dJak (Jan 5, 2007)

no..the plastic bit is attached to the bottom of the boot (on the outside) ...where the spur shank comes beneath your foot...the boots have to have a pretty deep heel to do this, but it works with my viberg caulks.... do releive pressure...


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## 1CallLandscape (Jan 5, 2007)

*boot type is key*

clearence you are right about the boot type being critical.

I climb in chippewa steel toe loggers and i can be on spikes 8 hours and be fine. they also have the higher heel which helps lock the spikes in real tight to your boot. Vibrum soles are a MUST. the chippewa loggers are great for climbing without spikes as well too. also more importantly than the boots for comfort are your spikes. what kind do you have??? i have climbed with several types in the past few years and i have settled on bashland. you might want to try another type of spike to better suit your feet. Just a thought....


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## woodchux (Jan 5, 2007)

Does anyone here wear Bailey's Red Dawg climbers? I've been thinking about gettin some but they look like they would be pretty hot at 16". Those or the Red Dawg black vibram 12" boots.


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## Grace Tree (Jan 5, 2007)

woodchux said:


> Does anyone here wear Bailey's Red Dawg climbers? I've been thinking about gettin some but they look like they would be pretty hot at 16". Those or the Red Dawg black vibram 12" boots.


I bought a pair of the Red Dawgs. I like them so far. My feet were killing me after about an hour on hooks so I thought I'd just use them for that but I wear them all the time now unless I'm going to spend the day in the lift. I think they run just a little large so if you're in between sizes go with the smaller size. I don't find them hot and since they're just a bit large I wear two pairs of wool socks.
Phil


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## bigbadbob (Jan 5, 2007)

I don't climb trees but do climb poles. I have flat feet to. I have some cheapo work boots that I use if I am just going up for 5-10 minutes, work fine. But if I am going to climb for longer or climb lots of sticks I use my $550 Daytons. the difference is incredible. The entire crew does the same, it saves wear on the good boots also. You get what you pay for.
bob


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## coydog (Jan 5, 2007)

Wesco makes good boots for hook climbing. You may want to get your feet fitted, and have your boots custom made. they will mail you a DIY kit with instructions that you mail back to them and will custom build a pair of boots for you. They have a comprehensive internet site. I've heard that white's also manufacters excellent boots


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## polingspig (Jan 5, 2007)

I am glad the Bailey's boot is working for somebody. They are the ones I ordered today.


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## Jumper (Jan 5, 2007)

Worth a try....I think it is great that some people here can get by with a pair of $40 cheapies from Wally World, but I do not think you are doing any favours to your feet in the long run if you go that route, especially if you are standing all day tugging brush or up a tree in spurs. Not saying you need to spend $500 either just find something that works for you.

Ever see a specialist to get fitted for a pair of inserts uniquely designed for your particular problem? Again not cheap, but maybe worth the $$ in the long run. Mine address the fact the joint in my right big toe is non existant, and hence have a steel plate under that area, and to even out the gait/effort the left is identical. Wear these only in dress shoes and sneakers as my boot have stiff soles and steel plates that more than do the trick. A pair of Danner "Fort Lewis" boots I got in the Army came with a plastic arch insert which I did not find too bad...though maybe with flat feet it would be painful.

I have a pair of Viberg Lineman boots as well, as per Clearance "Steel toe, steel shank, very heavy thick soles, Vibram and then layers of leather". Hope the Baileys work for you as nothing is worse than painful feet, been there.


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## polingspig (Jan 5, 2007)

No joint in the big toe? That sucks! Was it like that before you joined the Amy? If so, how did you get in? I had to keep what little joke of an arch i do have cramped during the physical so I could get in the AF.


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## woodchux (Jan 5, 2007)

polingspig said:


> I am glad the Bailey's boot is working for somebody. They are the ones I ordered today.



Which ones did you order 16" or 12" ?


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## polingspig (Jan 5, 2007)

I got the 12 inch.


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## Old Monkey (Jan 6, 2007)

Well I have half your problem. I have one flat foot. A freak rollerblading accident. I don't want to talk about it. I didn't do anything special about it for a long time until I was sitting in my chiropractor's office reading a poster about back pain as result of having one leg longer than the other. It occurred to me that my one flat foot was turning my pelvis and subsequently my back. They make much better inserts or orthotics these days that are custom fit to you feet. I wear them in my climbing boots but not in the Wescos I use for all day spur climbing. The Wescos already have a pronounced arch. 

Try getting orthotics.


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## polingspig (Jan 6, 2007)

I had arch support inserts as a child. I didn't were them because they were uncomfortable. I will look into getting some. I get the reasoning now so maybe I'll wear them.


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## tree dude (Jan 6, 2007)

*foot pain*

i feel your pain.
i have flat feet and plantar facitis.
i go to a foot doctor regularly. he had my feet casted and $300.00 inserts made for my shoes.
these help for every day living,but as soon as i slap on my gaffs and get into that bark i feel that pain coming on.the next day it feels like someone beat my arches with a louisville slugger!
i take anti-inflammatorys 2x a day also which helps.
i was thinking of trying foot plates but i hate to spend $80.00 on them and they don't work.
same with boots,i need to find a good pair of them also.

let me know how the new boots work out.

tree dude


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## polingspig (Jan 6, 2007)

Tree Dude,
I feel the same about spending money on things that might not work. But, you never know until you try. Of course there's always ebay to get some of the money back if they don't work.


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## woodchux (Jan 6, 2007)

Pick up the foot plates and try them out. If they dont help, I'll buy them from you if you decide to sell em.


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## rahtreelimbs (Jan 6, 2007)

tree dude said:


> i feel your pain.
> i have flat feet and plantar facitis.
> i go to a foot doctor regularly. he had my feet casted and $300.00 inserts made for my shoes.
> these help for every day living,but as soon as i slap on my gaffs and get into that bark i feel that pain coming on.the next day it feels like someone beat my arches with a louisville slugger!
> ...




I suffer from the same thing and also have the inserts. Some shoes/boots have a good arch and I don't need the inserts. 

I climb on a pair of ASOLO's......got them at Eastern Mountain Sports. At $200 they are pricey but the comfort level is far and away the best that I have found!!!


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## Lonnie (Jan 7, 2007)

*try*

Look up wesspurs and they sell spur plates to get the wieght off the middle of ya foot and more on the hole foot....


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## (WLL) (Jan 7, 2007)

i have a pair of the 16in red dogs they are great and well worth the price 200 is much better than 400. they are a bit big so order small and if they dont fit send em back befor u wear 2 work


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## jonseredbred (Jan 7, 2007)

I have been buying Red Wing Loggers with heavy vibram soles off of scam bay. They are factory seconds. The last pair I bought were $90.00 and It had a minor cosmetic stiching blem.

I will never buy full price again, I hope!


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## Jumper (Jan 7, 2007)

polingspig said:


> No joint in the big toe? That sucks! Was it like that before you joined the Amy? If so, how did you get in? I had to keep what little joke of an arch i do have cramped during the physical so I could get in the AF.



No , toe got broke during military PT, a fun little game of soccer no less. 28+ years later still remember it was a guy named Les Waldron and me both going to make a big clearing kick, and he kicked my right foot instead. Swelled up huge, healed half assed and over the years the joint got arthritis and "disappeared" due to a lack of a better description according to a specialist.

It was suggested I could have it fused, but the thought of a permanent limp and as Old Monkey intoned, back problems downstream turned that idea off right quick.


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## Lonnie (Jan 7, 2007)

I to have one foot trouble my right one was crushed by a sliding log....I was cutting below where others had already cut and was clearing out around a tree to be cut....I thought it was just a top and yes i was swearing both the cutter that cut the treee and the boss for making him but anyway come to fine out it was not a top but a tree...I cut one fork out then the other and it started to slid down hill so i jumped to get out of the way and it pinned my foot into the tree i was going to cut......So i was stuck between a llog and a hard place heheheh i cut the log and used my saw as a cane to get back to where the dozzer was... Time i got to it i thought my boot was going to bust a stich hehehe.... so i made note to self dat day never ever cut below where some one else had cut hehehe


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## EngineerDude (Jan 9, 2007)

tree dude said:


> i go to a foot doctor regularly. he had my feet casted and $300.00 inserts made for my shoes.
> these help for every day living,but as soon as i slap on my gaffs and get into that bark i feel that pain coming on.



I also have flat feet. The cast inserts tree dude is referring to are called "orthotics". The concept is that the podiatrist holds your foot into exactly the right position (the position your foot and leg would normally assume it if wasn't for having flat feet), and then he makes plaster casts of your feet, and then sends the castings off to a company that uses them to make custom fitted shoe inserts that put your feet into the right position all the time. These inserts can be easily moved from one pair of shoes to another.

Unfortunately, I don't have gaffs, and so can't comment on tree dude's experience of having the orthotics not be effective while wearing the gaffs, but I can tell you that when I was climbing last summer doing TD's on a couple of trees on my property, and was wearing boots (but obviously not gaffs), and my feet started hurtin, I put the orthotics in my boots and things instantly improved greatly.

Polingspig, I seriously recommend you call a podiatrist, explain your problem, and ask if he thinks orthotics will help. I've got two pair of them, and I swear, I will never be without them again!


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## polingspig (Jan 10, 2007)

EngineerDude, I will see the doc soon.
I got my boots from Bailey's today, along with new Aluminum Spurs. I will let y'all know tomorrow if there is improvement just having the right equipment. 
I have to let you know now that they are the most comfortable boots I have ever worn right out of the box. Well, I added a set of gel inserts from wally world like I always do. The funny thing is that they are awesome when I am standing, walking or sitting with my feet flat on the floor but they hurt when in any other position. I wore them to the store for some milk. My left foot was flat on the floor and had no trouble, but my right foot (on the gas at an angle) hurt the entire drive. Walking around the store they felt GREAT. Right foot hurt on the drive home again. Weird. Maybe it's just the way a hire arch affects flat feet. It wasn't an awful, unbearable pain. It was annoying though.
Can't wait for tomorrow. I feel like I did the night before my first camping trip with my Dad.


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## polingspig (Jan 12, 2007)

*Definite improvement!!!*

I used the new Bailey's boots and aluminum spurs for the first time two days ago. I scared the crap out of myself. I was about 50 feet up a Longleaf Pine and slipped. I had my lifeline false crotched around the trunk and only slid about 1 and a 1/2 to 2 feet but it still took my breath away. I am not accustomed to spurs.

The boots were an awesome improvement with regard to the pain in my feet. I would not have been able to finish without the lifeline to rest on now and then, but still much, much better on my feet. I kept my weight off the lifeline as much as possible to get a good feel for the spurs. I think I will get a lot of use from them.

Yesterday I took down a Popcorn Tree and only used the spurs (with new boots) and a lanyard. I only had to climb about 10 ft. so I didn't tie in.

That's the update.


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## The Climber (Jan 13, 2007)

I've tried lots of difrent boots until I bought my first pair of Red Wing loggers. they are by far better than any I've had beforer. I Have no problem with pain from wearing spurs now. Make sure you get the ones with steel shanks.


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