# Drying milled wood?



## MS460WOODCHUCK (Feb 15, 2009)

I am looking to buy a chainsaw mill. I was wondering how to dry the wood with out the kiln. Can you let it season? If so how long. Also what wood would be good to use? I have locust, ash, oak, maple and hackleberry available to use all of it still standing and going to be green. Any other tools needed with the mill? Has any one used the debarker from bailey's that goes on the end of a saw bar?


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## mtngun (Feb 16, 2009)

Few of us on this forum have kilns. We seal the ends and then stack the rough boards neatly in a dry place for a year or two, with stickers between boards. 

Since the boards will be taking up a lot of space for a long time, it's nice to have a shed dedicated to storing lumber. Otherwise, you'll get tired of having the boards in your garage or basement.

As for how long they need to dry, that depends on many variables. I live in a dry climate and mill mostly half-dry trees, so my boards may be ready to use after a year. If you start out with green, sappy wood and live in a humid climate, it may take two years or more.

All of the species you mention would be good for milling, assuming you have a use for the wood.


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## ran3465 (Feb 16, 2009)

I been told the general rule for Ohio is that in one year per inch of thickness the wood should be matched roughly to around 30%. If it something you are going to use in a climate controlled area like you house it is a good idea finding some one with a kiln. If you contact your local county extension office they can provide you with a list of people in your area who have sawmills. You could call some of them and they might have a line on a kiln.


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## BlueRider (Feb 16, 2009)

don't listen to any one who tells you that you can't yse wood unless it has been kiln dried. Killn drying only lets you use the wood sooner.


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## MS460WOODCHUCK (Feb 16, 2009)

Thanks for the information. I am a contractor and there is always use for lumber. Why does it need to go to a kiln to be used in a house? I don't know anything about drying out wood except to season it for the stove. Does having it go through the kiln kill bugs or something? 

What kind of mill should I get? I may try up to 36'' slabs running a ms660. 880 is in the near future, if I decide I need it. Is there any other tools I should buy to go along with the mill? Any info is highly appreciated.


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## BIG JAKE (Feb 17, 2009)

ms460woodchuck said:


> Thanks for the information. I am a contractor and there is always use for lumber. Why does it need to go to a kiln to be used in a house? I don't know anything about drying out wood except to season it for the stove. Does having it go through the kiln kill bugs or something?
> 
> What kind of mill should I get? I may try up to 36'' slabs running a ms660. 880 is in the near future, if I decide I need it. Is there any other tools I should buy to go along with the mill? Any info is highly appreciated.



Kiln drying is a fast way to take the water out of the wood. This greatly reduces shipping costs, makes handling easier, and it kills any bugs in the wood that could be transported to other locations. Many countries have laws allowing only kiln dried and certified bug free wood to be used for shipping crates entering their countries. They actually have standards for this. It also eliminates mold for the most part so you can bundle lumber tightly-safety issue as many molds are toxic. 
For mills I'd get a granberg alaskan in whatever width for the log sizes you have access to mill. 

Check with your local inspectors to see what the restrictions are in building with unstamped lumber, and if you have anyone in your area that can inspect and grade the lumber you mill. If you arent' going to pull a permit then it doesn't really matter. But you should bone up on what woods you want to build things out of that are suitable for what you're doing. 
The U.S. forest service, Dept of Agriculture, our your local county extension agent, may be able to direct you to individuals able to grade and stamp lumber. Stamped lumber is really a just a standard that insures(intent anyway) the house you build will be of acceptable quality from a materials standpoint, but it also sets minimum standards for lumber companies and the lumber they put out and sell-kind of a protection to consumers I would imagine as most wouldn't have a clue about good lumber selection other than straightness. I'm no expert on the in's and out's of stamped lumber/grading-just opinions formed from observations made in my own experience and what little I've read. As far as using unstamped lumber and beams to build with I've done it-no problems and I intend to do a lot more.

Woodchuck do a search also many posts have been written in great detail about setups, etc. Use keywords such as granberg, milling chain etc. Good luck


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## ran3465 (Feb 17, 2009)

> don't listen to any one who tells you that you can't yse wood unless it has been kiln dried. Killn drying only lets you use the wood sooner.



Go mill your self a 2"x4"x8' and stick it behind your couch along with a 2"x4"x8'
thats been kiln dried and check on it in about a week.


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## BIG JAKE (Feb 18, 2009)

ran3465 said:


> Go mill your self a 2"x4"x8' and stick it behind your couch along with a 2"x4"x8'
> thats been kiln dried and check on it in about a week.



True, if you do this your stick will be un-usable. BTW if you leave the kiln dried one back there it will probably be un-usable in 1-3 months also. The key to usable milled lumber is how you dry it. You need to stack it and sticker it on a level surface, and either add weight to the stack or band it. After the lumber is dry you'll have good usable sticks. Many good books out there and posts on this site about drying milled lumber-pics too.


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## oldsaw (Feb 18, 2009)

ran3465 said:


> Go mill your self a 2"x4"x8' and stick it behind your couch along with a 2"x4"x8'
> thats been kiln dried and check on it in about a week.



Not if it's properly stacked and stickered. If you cut anything and just let it lay it will warp. The kiln dried board will warp if you lay it on your concrete floor in the garage due to unequal moisture on the top and bottom of the board.

I've done a few thousand board feet of hardwood and outside of a tension tree that I milled on a chance (much of it was still good), have had very little problem with warping.

You don't need a kiln. The world got along without them for thousands of years.

Mark


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## hazard (Feb 18, 2009)

I air dry all of my lumber and have made many projects from it. I kind of like using air dried wood compared to kiln dried. The air dried wood is alittle softer and easier on the tools. Just an observationl.

Chris


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## BobL (Feb 18, 2009)

oldsaw said:


> You don't need a kiln. The world got along without them for thousands of years.



:agree2:

You just need to resist the urge to use the timber before it dries out.

I started milling one day a week a couple of years ago and now have access to way more timber than I can use. So now I'm starting to get real fussy about what I bother to mill.


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## deeker (Feb 18, 2009)

BlueRider said:


> don't listen to any one who tells you that you can't yse wood unless it has been kiln dried. Killn drying only lets you use the wood sooner.



I am going to make a small solar kiln this spring/summer. The biggest benefit of a kiln, is it kills all the bugs in the wood....at that time. And it sets/hardens the sap...so it won't leach out when it gets warmer. Kilns heat the wood up to about 160 degrees.

Kevin

Ruff Cutts


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## SilverBox (Feb 18, 2009)

deeker said:


> Kilns heat the wood up to about 160 degrees.
> 
> Kevin
> 
> Ruff Cutts



Cool I was wondering about that. Seems like you could build a small sheet rock room thats insulated and put a $50 dollar oil heater and a thermostat on it and run the room at 150. I've been toying with the idea anyways.


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## deeker (Feb 18, 2009)

There are do it yourself solar kilns. But sheet rock is not what you should use.

Do a search on kilns.

Kevin


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## BIG JAKE (Feb 18, 2009)

SilverBox said:


> Cool I was wondering about that. Seems like you could build a small sheet rock room thats insulated and put a $50 dollar oil heater and a thermostat on it and run the room at 150. I've been toying with the idea anyways.



I've been toying with the solar route as we have plenty of sun in these parts. A box lined with foil or black insides maybe, with a clear top, and a small computer fan on a timer to cycle the the air out every 24 hrs. You know how hot it gets in a car in the sun? hummm.... I might have to do some small scale tests-laser thermometer etc. 

On your oil heater just watch your CO levels(even if it's ventilated as with a tight enclosure it may not draft so well)-you won't get a second chance on either: Oxygen deficient environments or Carbon monoxide. I've had the oxygen deficient experience and I can tell you it'll be lights out so quick you'll never know what hit you-seriously. Same with CO because it, at the higher levels will eliminate the abilty for your lungs to convert oxygen into your bloodstream with the exact same effect as insufficient oxygen. The only difference is with a slow rise you will probably experience symptoms such as nausea with the CO but not in this case within a confined space. Well won't the heater go out? Yes, but the CO & O2 levels in the room can stay the same for an extended period. I'm not intending to condescend, just inform. You can do this safely, just completely ventilate before you go in but watch the kids and those unaware also. Good luck-keep us posted.

An additional bit on CO the levels in your bloodstream can build up slowly over a period of hours or days and still kill you. This is because it doesn't easily clear out of your system but takes time.


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## MS460WOODCHUCK (Feb 19, 2009)

Don't mean to sound like an idiot but what is a sticker?


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## glennschumann (Feb 19, 2009)

Sticker is just fancy miller lingo for "that 1x1 spacer that you lay between the boards when you stack them on top of each other to dry"

The only dumb question is the unasked question.


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## SilverBox (Feb 19, 2009)

BIG JAKE said:


> I've been toying with the solar route as we have plenty of sun in these parts. A box lined with foil or black insides maybe, with a clear top, and a small computer fan on a timer to cycle the the air out every 24 hrs. You know how hot it gets in a car in the sun? hummm.... I might have to do some small scale tests-laser thermometer etc.
> 
> On your oil heater just watch your CO levels(even if it's ventilated as with a tight enclosure it may not draft so well)-you won't get a second chance on either: Oxygen deficient environments or Carbon monoxide. I've had the oxygen deficient experience and I can tell you it'll be lights out so quick you'll never know what hit you-seriously. Same with CO because it, at the higher levels will eliminate the abilty for your lungs to convert oxygen into your bloodstream with the exact same effect as insufficient oxygen. The only difference is with a slow rise you will probably experience symptoms such as nausea with the CO but not in this case within a confined space. Well won't the heater go out? Yes, but the CO & O2 levels in the room can stay the same for an extended period. I'm not intending to condescend, just inform. You can do this safely, just completely ventilate before you go in but watch the kids and those unaware also. Good luck-keep us posted.
> 
> An additional bit on CO the levels in your bloodstream can build up slowly over a period of hours or days and still kill you. This is because it doesn't easily clear out of your system but takes time.



I wasn't planning on going into it. I was thinking about it last night and sheet rock probably be a bad idea as it will sweat like crazy in the kiln and turn the rock and JC into mush, I'm thinking hardi backer (or maybe dura rock or densield) with thin set joints, with a fan vent on a timer to change the air over, probably more often then 24 hours at first, maybe every 6 hours then as it dries change it to slower and slower air turn over.


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## southsoundtree (Feb 19, 2009)

*Solar kiln materials*

I think that I'll try this solar kiln idea.

Seems like Craigslist is a good source for used windows for free, or next to free. Also, if there is a building materials recycler/ deconstruction business in the area, it is probably a good cost effective way to get glass/ plexiglass.

Some thermal windows/ newer windows may have uv blocker films applied to the glass that may impede the solar energy.


Seems like painting the outside of a wooden box with black paint would help.


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## BIG JAKE (Feb 19, 2009)

SilverBox said:


> I wasn't planning on going into it. I was thinking about it last night and sheet rock probably be a bad idea as it will sweat like crazy in the kiln and turn the rock and JC into mush, I'm thinking hardi backer (or maybe dura rock or densield) with thin set joints, with a fan vent on a timer to change the air over, probably more often then 24 hours at first, maybe every 6 hours then as it dries change it to slower and slower air turn over.



Don't mind me SB I'm kind of a safety nut, and keep the ideas coming. 
What I like about this site is there's lot's of people willling to take the time to help you out using their knowledge often learned "the hard way". That knowledge can result in any combination of the following: save you time, trouble, and expense. 
On the air exhchange idea I'm thinking the sheetrock would probably work if you exhange the air adequately. They have greenboard too that's made for higher humidity environments. I wonder what they have in the way of humidity sensors? Maybe couple that to a relay to make the air exchange automatic opcorn:.


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## redprospector (Feb 19, 2009)

I've built, and used a few kiln's both propane fired (back when you could afford propane), and solar.
It's easy to collect heat, with a kiln you need to figure out how to hold it.
If you build a heat collector on the side of your kiln you can put a good 2' layer of lava rock in the bottom of the collector. That will pretty much hold enough heat to last all night. To transfer the heat to the kiln you need a few small louvered fans (seperate from your circulation fans), these can be hooked to a thermostat. The kiln needs to stay at a fairly constant temp. 24 hours a day or you'll run into problem's.
A good household de-humidifier is a must in my opinion. It works way better than the condensation type kiln's I've seen. You can run a hose from the water tray/tank right out the wall. It's amazing how much water will run out the hose. The last kiln I built held 2000 bd. ft. and I needed 2 pretty good size household de-humidifier's to even try to keep up.
I've had the best luck leaving the circulation fan's running all the time. Keep that air flowing!
Get some kind of moisture meter, or you're just shooting in the dark.
Kiln's don't have to be as complicated as some people make them out to be.
But there's more to them than some think.

Hope this help's some,

Andy


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## SilverBox (Feb 19, 2009)

BIG JAKE said:


> Don't mind me SB I'm kind of a safety nut, and keep the ideas coming.
> They have greenboard too that's made for higher humidity environments.



I'm not a safety nut, but I don't want to do something stupid either .

I've seen green/purple (its not green anymore ) turn to mush also from to much moisture, but hardibacker/durarock/densheild you can pretty much throw in a bucket of water and it will be ok.


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## SilverBox (Feb 19, 2009)

redprospector said:


> I've built, and used a few kiln's both propane fired (back when you could afford propane), and solar.
> It's easy to collect heat, with a kiln you need to figure out how to hold it.
> If you build a heat collector on the side of your kiln you can put a good 2' layer of lava rock in the bottom of the collector. That will pretty much hold enough heat to last all night. To transfer the heat to the kiln you need a few small louvered fans (seperate from your circulation fans), these can be hooked to a thermostat. The kiln needs to stay at a fairly constant temp. 24 hours a day or you'll run into problem's.
> A good household de-humidifier is a must in my opinion. It works way better than the condensation type kiln's I've seen. You can run a hose from the water tray/tank right out the wall. It's amazing how much water will run out the hose. The last kiln I built held 2000 bd. ft. and I needed 2 pretty good size household de-humidifier's to even try to keep up.
> ...



!! nice post. what brand/model of household dehumidifier were you using?

+1


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## redprospector (Feb 19, 2009)

SilverBox said:


> !! nice post. what brand/model of household dehumidifier were you using?
> 
> +1



That's been a few years ago so I can't remember the model's but they were some of the bigger one's they made. One of them was a Sear's, and the other I had had since the 70's but I do remember I bought it from Western Auto.

Andy


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