# Ashley Stoves -- Danger!!



## Hal S (Oct 10, 2011)

I've burned an Ashley wood stove for over 30 years. I thought it was time for a new one so I bought one and had it delivered. This is a model BEC95. I paid almost $1000 for it. I uncrated the stove, examined it and found, what I thought to be, a part missing. That part being the sliding plate to control the draft through the ash clean-out door. Here's what I got:







Look at the holes in that door! If you know anything about burning wood you will know that you *cannot* possibly control the fire in the stove with that much air coming in underneath it.

So I called the company (*United States Stove Company*) to let them know about the missing part. They told me, in terms less than apologetic, that the part *was not* missing. They said that the EPA would not allow them to put that part on the stove. I don't know how the freakin' EPA got its nose stuck into wood stoves but that *IS NOT* the point. The point is, this stove *will not function in an acceptable manner* with all that air coming through the ash door all the time. U.S. Stove should simply *not sell this product* if this is how they have to configure it!

For those of you who are unfamiliar with this stove, it has a thermostatic draft that opens or closes at the stove cools down or warms up. Of what earthly value is that draft if the door right next to it is full of holes like this? The fire will burn so hot that the draft *will never open!*

Now you wanna hear (see) some funny stuff? This is from their manual that comes with the stove. 






Yeah right. Make sure the door is closed, even though damn thing is full of holes, keep it closed. That's about as helpful as screen doors on a submarine isn't it? In another silly reference, they suggest checking for a worn gasket in the door, if your fires are burning too hot. Check the freakin' gasket?? The door is full of holes, and they suggest checking the gasket?

Here's a doozy! "Don't use the heater with missing or worn parts."

I'll have to assume that manual was written when the ash door draft control was still an integral part of that stove. And despite their contention otherwise *it is missing!*

Here's the bottom line. To use this stove in this condition is *DANGEROUS!*. If you load up this stove, it will burn so hot that it will overheat and become a true fire hazard. (See U.S. Stove's own admonitions in the reference manual quoted above.)

This is simply unacceptable. U.S. Stove *should not be* foisting these dysfunctional products on the consumer, simply under the guise "the EPA made me do it."

You may encounter other U.S. Stove products out there besides Ashley. They also make a line called "Wonder Wood". I have no idea what other type of non-functional crap they are trying to foist off on the consumer, but I wouldn't buy so much as a pencil from this company.

*DO NOT LET U.S. STOVE BURN YOUR HOUSE DOWN -- EPA BE DAMNED.*

Hal Sullivan


----------



## moocow (Oct 24, 2011)

*New Ashley Stove*

I was equally shocked. I removed the swing baffle at the loading door so I could load without getting burned by the metal baffle. Then I put bolts and washers through the the loading door holes after removing the silly door hood. Next I put bolts with washers in the ash door. Now with all the extraneous air sealed off, the spring controlled damper can regulate the temperature and keep it from over firing! I can get the fire going by opening the ash door a litle.


----------



## gloud (Oct 24, 2011)

The best think I did with my Ashley was junk it. I had no problems running it but my wife could not. We went to a Jotul 118 
two years ago and have been so happy it is not funny. And thats before this issue you found.


----------



## Richard C (Oct 24, 2011)

I like Ashley Stoves, haven't seen on in a long time. 

Looking at the picture you posted. It looks like it was made for a part to be attached and regulated from there. Maybe they could send you one, they don't have to put it on, you can. It would give you more control.

I have a Nordic that has a slide that will open and close that would let air inter the ash tray and flow up through the grate. It might be nice to have that extra control.

Good luck with the new stove


----------



## Wood Doctor (Oct 24, 2011)

*Who Do You Believe?*

Makes you wonder. Who do you believe? The MFG or the EPA?

I'd keep the stove and make my own parts to adjust it. Perhaps the rest of the stove is well made. Ashley Stoves have been around for awhile. Write them a letter and see what they say before you start trashing things.


----------



## shane438 (Oct 26, 2011)

They did that because the EPA regulates them because smoke is released into the air when it burns. Take a flat piece of sheet metal about 1/8 inch thick, lay it over the holes. cut you some corresponding holes in it to match the casting. Put another hole in it 1/4 inch diameter where the slider hole in the ash door is. this blt will hold the slider on the door and ack as the handle to the slider so you nees to place it so it will not interfere with the opening and closing of those vents. When properly installed you slide it left to right to open and close the holes and use the protruding end of the bolt as a handle.


----------



## leeave96 (Oct 26, 2011)

My understanding of EPA stove regulations is this:

When they decided to limit the emissions of wood burning appliances, they set some standards. Problem was - how do you regulate a fireplace, so they made an exemption. The non-epa stoves you buy today are designed to flow free air through them like a fireplace. My guess is your Ashley stove is a non-epa stove and that's why your missing the part you need.

If you tighten it up, you will likely have a smoke dragon - which is fine if you want to live with the additional creosote and potential for flue fire. We all did that back in the fisher air tight stove days. Lots of trips to clean out the chimney too.

There is a better way and that is to get an epa compliant stove. They ain't as bad as it sounds. Most of the stoves burn off the smoke before it gets out the chimney giving a very clean burn and no smoke out the chimney. Another benefit is burning the smoke yields a ton of heat AND reduces the amount of wood one burns a goodly bit.

The downside is you need truely seasoned wood. If you cut green wood and toss it in your stove, you will be dissapppointed.

Good luck,
Bill


----------



## Oldtimer (Oct 26, 2011)

I have the same Ashley.

Before I even fired it up the first time I made a tin block off plate and held it in with a small bolt and a wing nut. I drilled holes to match the door, and made it so that I could losen the wing nut, slide it to "open" or "closed" and tighten the nut. Never once used it in the open position, easier to open the ash pan door for extra draft.

I also took the small draft covering plate off the wood box door and flattened it out with a hammer to close off THAT huge draft to about 1/8" instead of the 3/4" it came with...

It's an OK stove, but nothing to get moist over. I have plans for a home-made stove that will be much better suited to my application. Just have to "do it".


----------



## KsWoodsMan (Oct 27, 2011)

That's the way it is now with an EPA exempt stove. It HAS to have enough air flow to not create a smoldering condition. 

Yours will be an easy fix. EPA EXEMPT requirements also stipulate that the factory 'mods' are not easily bypassed by the consumer/end user to be able to cause the stove to operate in a smoldering condition. You got lucky.

I agree , in it's current state it will not only burn much hotter than expected, it will blow through a load of wood like it was nothing. 

With a firebox of that size they have little choice but to comply with the EPA. It is that or lose part of their product line.


----------



## CrappieKeith (Oct 27, 2011)

Hal S said:


> I've burned an Ashley wood stove for over 30 years. I thought it was time for a new one so I bought one and had it delivered. This is a model BEC95. I paid almost $1000 for it. I uncrated the stove, examined it and found, what I thought to be, a part missing. That part being the sliding plate to control the draft through the ash clean-out door. Here's what I got:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
As you can surmise being EPA certified has nothing to do with efficiency...only particulates.
Good Luck with your new appliance.


----------



## shane438 (Oct 27, 2011)

Or you can call and order parts for your "old" stove(wink-wink)


----------



## Rickochet (Oct 28, 2011)

I would refuse to buy a stove that has to be modified by the owner before it can be used!


----------



## Freehand (Oct 28, 2011)

I have one of these boogers,the big model that's 60,000 BTU/ 2000 square ft.When ever someone says Ashley stove,they assume the model the OP has.Ashley has a high end line with 5/16" full welded steel seams and truly airtight,with an efficiency rating in the mid-seventies.

Ashley has a bad rap with those "sheet metal wonder" stoves.:msp_rolleyes:


----------



## BringingVictory (Oct 28, 2011)

*I loved my Ashley wood stove*

I have nothing but fond memories of my old Ashley wood stove! Before that all my babies had been burned on inadequate wood stoves that barely heated the one room. I'd had to spend hours messing with the old stoves to get them to burn at all. I was a busy young Mom who had 4 little ones getting in trouble enough without getting burned while I was cooking,doing laundry or cleaning up after dogs and kids.
When we got our Ashely everything got better! There was no chance that anyone just wanting to warm up beside it could get burned! The outer shell worked wonders to keep our friends and family warm without getting a burn, I could snuggle up to it and get a fast heat on my back and then get on with my day! I could throw 18" logs in, no need to split them,(of course they had to be seasoned) and then I didn't have to worry about it for another several hours with the damper nearly closed. Many times I found myself opening the front and back doors in sub zero temperatures because the whole house was too hot  And at night I could leave a couple logs on for a slow burn and wake up warm in the morning! 
Also I could set a tea pot to boil on top, boil water for beans or just get some humidity into the dry cold, Texas air, that stove was my favorite and no other has passed it up before or since.





i


----------



## guinnessbrewer (Oct 28, 2011)

I have a Ashley model 261 that I am parting out. It has an ash pan door with the vents like yours, only with the control. I can send it your way if you would like to have it.

View attachment 204792





GB





Hal S said:


> I've burned an Ashley wood stove for over 30 years. I thought it was time for a new one so I bought one and had it delivered. This is a model BEC95. I paid almost $1000 for it. I uncrated the stove, examined it and found, what I thought to be, a part missing. That part being the sliding plate to control the draft through the ash clean-out door. Here's what I got:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## guinnessbrewer (Oct 28, 2011)

I have an ashley model 261 that I am parting out. It looks like it has the same ash door but mine has the draft control with it. Let me know if you want it....View attachment 204811


GB






Hal S said:


> I've burned an Ashley wood stove for over 30 years. I thought it was time for a new one so I bought one and had it delivered. This is a model BEC95. I paid almost $1000 for it. I uncrated the stove, examined it and found, what I thought to be, a part missing. That part being the sliding plate to control the draft through the ash clean-out door. Here's what I got:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Beasley (Feb 18, 2014)

Hal S said:


> I've burned an Ashley wood stove for over 30 years. I thought it was time for a new one so I bought one and had it delivered. This is a model BEC95. I paid almost $1000 for it. I uncrated the stove, examined it and found, what I thought to be, a part missing. That part being the sliding plate to control the draft through the ash clean-out door. Here's what I got:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think the reason why the EPA insisted on having the damper removed was because of folks who do not know how to run a wood heater properly. IE, fill a hot stove full of fresh wood, possibly a bit damp, then close the stove down. That will smoke up a whole neigbourhood pretty quick.


----------



## chuckwood (Feb 18, 2014)

Hal S said:


> I've burned an Ashley wood stove for over 30 years. I thought it was time for a new one so I bought one and had it delivered. This is a model BEC95. I paid almost $1000 for it. I uncrated the stove, examined it and found, what I thought to be, a part missing. That part being the sliding plate to control the draft through the ash clean-out door. Here's what I got:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I started with an Ashely back in 1974 and used it for many years before upgrading. When a friend bought one some years back, I noticed the missing sliding part that had been installed on mine. He asked me about it, because he had noticed that there were two upper and lower ridges that had been cast into the back side of the door as if these were slides for a plate to move back and forth on. He was in a hurry to get going, so he just went to his shop and fabricated the sliding plate with the same hole pattern, and he had a bolt sticking out for the handle that went in the oblong slot. Took about a half hour with a plasma cutter and a drill press and he lit the fire. But with the pic of your door, there are no ridges in there to hold the sliding plate, so now a modification will be more difficult.


----------



## dave_dj1 (Feb 18, 2014)

^^^^^^
Just make the piece tall enough to use the door casting as a guide.
Years ago I had a stove very similar, it was called a wonder coal. Best stove I ever owned. The trick back then was to drill a 1/2" hole in the door. This made the stove perform exceptionally well. It had the same spring heat activated draft control also. I never burnt coal so I have no idea how that would have been affected. I never had any chimney problems but I did burn good dry wood. We used that stove in my brothers garage for many years until he finally melted the poor thing down one weekend by leaving the ash pan door open! I think it was about 20+ years old by then.


----------



## savageactor7 (Feb 19, 2014)

Holy Cow these unelected ABC regulatory agencies are making a goat screw of everything.

Can you fab that missing part?


----------



## slowp (Feb 19, 2014)

savageactor7 said:


> Holy Cow these unelected ABC regulatory agencies are making a goat screw of everything.
> 
> Can you fab that missing part?


 
That's an inaccurate blanket statement. Many people have EPA certified stoves that operate just fine. I like not having to clean the chimney during burning season. One needs to shop for a good stove. 

Another, EPA horror thread. Meanwhile, mine is heating the house just fine, but it isn't that brand.


----------



## Chris-PA (Feb 19, 2014)

savageactor7 said:


> Holy Cow these unelected ABC regulatory agencies are making a goat screw of everything.
> 
> Can you fab that missing part?


OK, this is an old stove design that did not meet the emissions requirements. The manufacturer decided to exploit a loophole by leaving big holes in the door and calling it a "fireplace". They completely ripped off the OP, taking his money for something that could not work and was probably dangerous - and this gets blamed on the agency that enforces the emissions limits and not the company that sold him the junk. There is a (il)logic here that escapes me.


----------



## Whitespider (Feb 19, 2014)

Logic?? That ain't difficult to see.
Without the unlawful, unconstitutional, one-size-fits-all, Federal regulations the manufacturer wouldn't have need to "exploit" a loophole.
This is exactly why Federal Government ain't given the authority to "regulate" such things as wood stoves... it's specifically left to the States and/or the people (local governments).
Federal "regulation" always results in the same thing... first government spends the peoples money to make and enforce "regulations"... which breeds corruption, in both government and private sector... which breeds even more "regulation"... which breeds more corruption... which breeds more "regulation... the cycle continues until companies finally go broke, and then Government bails them-out with more of the peoples money... just to add more "regulation"... which breeds...
In the end, there are no winners (other than through corruption) when it comes to Federal "regulation", only losers... with the biggest losers being the people, simply because they have the most to lose.

Logic?? That ain't difficult to see... plenty of good men saw the logic 227 years ago.
*


----------



## Chris-PA (Feb 19, 2014)

Yeah, yeah, I've seen that movie before. So the actions of the corporation are OK then? It's not their fault I guess. LOL, so much for the culture of personal responsibility.


----------



## Whitespider (Feb 19, 2014)

Well... Chris-PA, once again you twist things in an attempt to put words in my mouth.
No matter how many times I read what I posted... I am unable to find where I posted any "action" was "OK", or where I absolved any "fault".
I simply addressed your "logic" statement... nothing more than that.
If you read more into it... well... the problem is at your end... certainly not mine.

If you'd like to discuss "personal responsibility" I'm more than willing to go there also.
*


----------



## Chris-PA (Feb 19, 2014)

Bullcrap. You responded to my comment about logic. My statement was directly about the logic of blaming the government agency *while NOT *placing any blame on the corporation that knowingly made and sold the defective product in an obviously unethical (in multiple ways) attempt to get around the regulations. 

You responded by going off on the constitutionality of regulation and never once mentioning the actions of the corporation, and stated that this logic was not difficult to see. This was a direct endorsement of the viewpoint I found illogical. You can now try to pretend that my "logic" comment was about something else, but it was not - it was about blaming the regulatory body while withholding any condemnation of the corporation. Just as you did.


----------



## Whitespider (Feb 19, 2014)

Bullcrap right back at'cha. 
What I posted was exactly what I posted... no reading between the lines required.
If my intent was to absolve any blame or fault attached the manufacturer I would have clearly stated it.
You, on the other hand, are not willing to see that there is also fault in the system creating the corruption... and refuse to lay the deserved portion of blame and fault on it.
Why must there be a hidden agenda in anything I say when it disagrees with your ideology??
Stop looking for it... I say what I mean, and I mean what I say... nothing more.

By-the-way, if you go back and read it again, I clearly stated there is *private sector corruption* involved.

addendum; Oh... as to the logic... placing blame on the *root cause* of something is not "illogical"... and no matter how you twist it the root is the "regulations". As I posted, without those unconstitutional regulations, there wouldn't be a "loophole" to find... would there?? The root cause, in this case, is simply the regulations... the sidestepping of constitution by Federal Government. That in no way justifies bad behavior by the manufacturer... but it does make bad behavior more likely.
*


----------



## ray benson (Feb 19, 2014)

The OP Hal S started the thread 2 1/2 years ago and that was his only post. Did he even try the stove?


----------



## Chris-PA (Feb 19, 2014)

Whitespider said:


> Bullcrap right back at'cha.
> What I posted was exactly what I posted... no reading between the lines required.
> If my intent was to absolve any blame or fault attached the manufacturer I would have clearly stated it.
> You, on the other hand, are not willing to see that there is also fault in the system creating the corruption... and refuse to lay the deserved portion of blame and fault on it.
> ...


You do not actually know what my "ideology" is, nor if I have one. I have stated before that I am ambivalent on the EPA and that they have done both worthwhile and very stupid things. Nor do I support large centralized bureaucracies in general, and I see them as unsustainable anyway. I do not however share your narrow view of the legitimacy of their existence, nor that they somehow represent a pure evil. They are just a typical bureaucracy.

Placing the "root cause" of the unscrupulous and unethical actions of individuals working for a corporation on the EPA for making what you believe to be illegitamate regulations is giving them a pass on personal responsibility. They chose to sell that stove that way, they were not forced to, and that is not anyone else's fault.


----------



## reaperman (Feb 19, 2014)

Why just not return the stove for a refund. You did purchase it with a credit card didnt you?


----------



## Whitespider (Feb 19, 2014)

FYI Chris-PA... personal responsibility is an entirely different thing from corporate responsibility... and your confusion of the two gives strong evidence as to your ideology.
Personal responsibility is nothing more than being responsible for yourself... allowing yourself to be ripped-off by a corporation (i.e. not being "buyer beware") is a lack of personal responsibility. And further, expecting government to protect you from being ripped-off by a corporation, or expecting government to fix it when you are ripped-off is a gross lack of personal responsibility.

As far as belief...
I've read the Constitution... my "beliefs" do not change what it says, nor do they matter.
*


----------



## Chris-PA (Feb 19, 2014)

Whitespider said:


> *.. allowing yourself to be ripped-off by a corporation (i.e. not being "buyer beware") is a lack of personal responsibility. And further, expecting government to protect you from being ripped-off by a corporation, or expecting government to fix it when you are ripped-off is a gross lack of personal responsibility.*


Please find anywhere that I expressed such expectations? You know of course that I did not discuss who should provide protection or recourse at all. 

Clearly in your view the corporation that sold the OP the defective product has done nothing wrong, it is the OP's responsibility that he allowed himself to be ripped off, and the EPA's fault that the corporation did so. Thank you for confirming my previous comments on logic and responsibility - I do not see any reason for further comment here.


----------



## Whitespider (Feb 19, 2014)

Once again you're twisting it in an attempt to put words in my mouth Chris-PA... another thing giving strong evidence as to your ideology.
There ain't any reason to read between the lines of my posts... I simply post what I mean, and mean what I post... nothing more than that.
*


----------



## Dalmatian90 (Feb 19, 2014)

The manufacturers, except mom and pop welding shops, all prefer the proper placement of this on the Federal level with the EPA to make uniform standards for products sold on a national basis. And that product might just be the plans, as was the model in the Fisher stove days when they sold rights to local shops in each state to make their design. Interstate commerce it's called, and even if you only had 5 or 10 or 12 states adopt their own emission standards and test procedures it would be an undue burden on the manufacturers trying to sell into all those markets having to repeat the tests to prove they match each independent standard. These are largely $500-2000 consumer items that don't lend themselves to having state-by-state standards.

And most states are just as happy not trying to re-invent the world and create their own standards for stoves only sold within the state of origin. Those states are perfectly capable of further localizing the regulations by whether or not they accept "fireplace" type stoves, or OWBs, or restrict even EPA stoves in areas and times prone to pollution.


----------



## autoimage (Feb 19, 2014)

I read the first post and knew it would be a problem


----------



## Big_Al (Feb 19, 2014)

Sheesh, thread was 3 years old folks.


----------



## CTYank (Feb 19, 2014)

Somebody please bust up the soap-boxes for kindling. And cancel the mind-reading act. Thanks.


----------



## Deleted member 83629 (Feb 20, 2014)

get me some 7018 and a oven and i can cover those holes right over.


----------



## chuckwood (Feb 20, 2014)

jakewells said:


> get me some 7018 and a oven and i can cover those holes right over.



That ash pan door might be small enough to fit in a toaster oven - so get one real cheap at a thrift store, wrap the oven up in fiberglass insulation, and heat that sucker up as hot as you can get it. Take it out with a pair of tongs, and quickly weld a piece of plate on over all those holes using 7018. Then let it cool down real slow in a bucket of ashes. Next day you can light the fire.


----------



## Deleted member 83629 (Feb 20, 2014)

or a bucket or play sand. not sure about welding up a stove door, but i have been successful welding up cracked exhaust manifolds on tractors.


----------

