# Cutting oak trees



## PAwrestling#1 (Sep 6, 2013)

Can someone please share any info or where I can find a quick video on proper way to notch and cut oak trees to keep them from splitting or splintering??


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## PAwrestling#1 (Sep 6, 2013)

anyone?


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## TheJollyLogger (Sep 6, 2013)

What issues are you having? Are they barber chairing on you? Breaking when they hit the ground? Jeff


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## HuskStihl (Sep 6, 2013)

What do you mean? Splitting when they hit the ground?


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## Gologit (Sep 6, 2013)

Are you cutting leaners? We need a little more specific information.


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## TheJollyLogger (Sep 6, 2013)

And of course the simple answer is no, there isn't a quick youtube video that gives you a skill that takes years to master. There are however plenty that show you how not to do it...


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## Gologit (Sep 6, 2013)

It sounds like maybe the OP has some trees 'chairing on him. If so, it's good that he's stopped to ask advice.

OP, do us a favor please. Post some pictures or descriptions of what's happening. You've come to the right forum for help but we need to know what's wrong before we can try to fix it.


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## PAwrestling#1 (Sep 6, 2013)

As they begin to fall the tree is splitting right up the middle at the start of fall.. yes the last one was a serious leaner. the two other ones were not leaning at all but were white oak which i heard have a tendancy of splitting??


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## rwoods (Sep 6, 2013)

PAwrestling#1 said:


> As they begin to fall the tree is splitting right up the middle at the start of fall.. yes the last one was a serious leaner. the two other ones were not leaning at all but were white oak which i heard have a tendancy of splitting??



Stay tuned, some of these guys are on the West coast and almost everyone is at work right now. They'll steer you straight. White oak can be straight as an arrow and still split as you described ( a barber chair). Not only does this waste good wood but it is extremely dangerous to the cutter. Ron


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## Cfaller (Sep 6, 2013)

Do a search on this site on Coos bay, boring back-cut. These two back cuts are the most common for preventing a barber chain.


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## bitzer (Sep 6, 2013)

You need a wide open face and a sharp saw. Cut the heart out of the hinge from the face. Especially on heavy leaning trees. You need to remove as much compression wood as possible. If you have too narrow of a face, when it closes it creates a tremendous amount of pressure along the hinge which in turn causes the chair. If you have a wide open face (conventional or Humboldt) with a snipe and remove some of the heart wood this will relieve that pressure. When the tree stalls out is when it chairs. If the tree is fairly straight and not leaning heavily and your saw is sharp enough (and big enough) you should be able to complete the back cut as long as you stay with it. If you leave it go as soon as it pops it will chair. On heavy leaners you can bore them although I don't. It is probably the safest that you do though. By removing as much compression wood as possible and only leaving the tension wood to cut you will be relieving the pressure that causes the chair. Of course there is more than one way to skin a cat. The biggest thing is the compression/tension wood no matter how you cut them. Its the same basic concept.


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## KenJax Tree (Sep 6, 2013)

https://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/logging/manual/felling/cuts/notches.html


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## PAwrestling#1 (Sep 6, 2013)

wow thats alot of terms you threw at me.. I think what i did was my notch was to tight , not opened enough which i think was part of your answer. I heard about cutting out the heart but would love to see some type of illustration before trying it. Im just a firewood home cutter guy.. haha.. but i am selling some oak logs for molding to a guy and had 3 trees split 8 to 12 ft up.. pretty costly. majority of these trees are only 16 to 20" breast hieght trees,not big at all, im running a husky 394 XP 24" bar new chain. Does the depth of the notch help or hurt chairing.


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## HuskStihl (Sep 6, 2013)

Ok, so you're talking about avoiding a tree splitting "barberchairing" just as it starts to fall. The reasons this happens is that the face is not open, and you are not moving through the back cut fast enough. The physics involves an open face cut, and using a technique to make your back cut faster. Several ways to do this. You can make two cuts from the edge of your face cut meeting at the middle of the back of the tree forming a triangle. This essentially makes your saw move much more quickly through the back cut. You can bore (just like it sounds) wood out of the center of the tree through the face cut, or you can bore from the side and remove much of the holding wood before starting your back cut. You also need to move quickly through your back cut, requiring a fairly strong saw and a sharp chain. 
Here is a video of one of the best fallers on here boring out behind the holding wood on a leaner. You can't see it from this video, but he is also very handsome

[video=youtube;cGOsmIMasmI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGOsmIMasmI&feature=player_detailpage#t=84[/video]

Don't worry about the wedges and the chunk of wood stuffed into the face. Those are techniques to turn the tree away a certain direction. You will notice after boring how little back cutting is required before the tree falls, that prevents the barber chair


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## treeslayer2003 (Sep 6, 2013)

PA, most these guys are pros but what bitzer said is best for you imo. make an open face and do not cut any farther than the face. next bore straight into the face to gut out most of the hart leaving a couple inches of the hinge on both sides. finish with your backcut and don't play with it, cut it quikly to the hinge leaving not more than two inches. less is better imo. do not try to stump jump white oak, it is tricky even for pros. they will split if you leave any hart, that why I,m telling you to bore the hart first. it is tricky to try n swing them, throw them in the direction of the lean if you can. I hope I have explained this in a way you can under stand. I don't seem to have any pics to show you. keep talkin to us till ya think ya got it. white oak here chairs easy and I don't want ya to get hurt.


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## treeslayer2003 (Sep 6, 2013)

depth of notch depends on lean. biggest thing, line up your cuts and don't cut deeper in than your face. I know ya gonna think ya never gonna get thru the back in time, that is the purpose of boreing the hart out.


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## mdavlee (Sep 6, 2013)

A few quick drawings for you.


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## treeslayer2003 (Sep 6, 2013)

I wouldn't make the notch no more than 1/3 tree diameter, less if heavy lean. make that top cut 45 degrees or more, you want to let the tree fall a good ways before the notch closes, that's when all the stress occurs. you can try taking out a piece top and bottom so it won't close till the tree is about down. if you cut deeper than the notch then the crack closes up and that is when you will have tremendous stress and the tree splits. sorry for the multi posts, i'm just trying to help you understand whats happening when a tree chairs.


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## treeslayer2003 (Sep 6, 2013)

mdavlee said:


> A few quick drawings for you.



yes, like this. thanks Mike.


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## mdavlee (Sep 6, 2013)

That's the best I could do with a cup and medicine bottle and sheet of paper as a straight edge.


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## Gologit (Sep 6, 2013)

These are also good cuts for dealing with leaners.


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## rwoods (Sep 6, 2013)

treeslayer2003 said:


> PA, most these guys are pros but what bitzer said is best for you imo. make an open face and *do not cut any farther than the face*. next bore straight into the face to gut out most of the hart leaving a couple inches of the hinge on both sides. finish with your backcut and don't play with it, cut it quikly to the hinge leaving not more than two inches. less is better imo. do not try to stump jump white oak, it is tricky even for pros. they will split if you leave any hart, that why I,m telling you to bore the hart first. it is tricky to try n swing them, throw them in the direction of the lean if you can. I hope I have explained this in a way you can under stand. I don't seem to have any pics to show you. keep talkin to us till ya think ya got it. white oak here chairs easy and I don't want ya to get hurt.





treeslayer2003 said:


> depth of notch depends on lean. biggest thing, line up your cuts and *don't cut deeper in than your face*. I know ya gonna think ya never gonna get thru the back in time, that is the purpose of boreing the hart out.





treeslayer2003 said:


> I wouldn't make the notch no more than 1/3 tree diameter, less if heavy lean. make that top cut 45 degrees or more, you want to let the tree fall a good ways before the notch closes, that's when all the stress occurs. you can try taking out a piece top and bottom so it won't close till the tree is about down. *if you cut deeper than the notch then the crack closes up and that is when you will have tremendous stress and the tree splits*. sorry for the multi posts, i'm just trying to help you understand whats happening when a tree chairs.



PA, I was hoping Treeslayer would weigh in here as he should have a lot of white oak under his belt. I am highlighting one thing he has said in all three posts. I,like you, am a firewood hack which usually means we aren't the most proficient in the world at lining up our cuts, but here is one species of trees that isn't very forgiving. Be careful. Ron


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## TheJollyLogger (Sep 6, 2013)

View attachment 313375


This is actually a fairly decent little primer for a newbie faller. By no means complete, but it does explain the process.


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## bustedup (Sep 6, 2013)

TS....Bitz and Gologit given ya the best advice ........watch the height of ya back cut and ifn ya gonna plunge and leave a strap then watch when ya release it as it'll go quick and imo release it from under not over ...........The sketch posted by Md was a humbolt face with a snipe but the methods described will work with the conventional or open face too.


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## HuskStihl (Sep 6, 2013)

Prolly best to ignore my video. I put it up as an example of how to bore behind the face from the side. I extended the gunning cut past the face on the near side intentionally to turn the tree and bored out the back leaving a triangle of holding wood before cutting the strip. I am not confident enough to stand in front of a leaner I've faced and bore the heart out thru the face. I will leave that to the real pros (Gologit, Bitzer, Jolly, Treeslayer, Cfaller, Busted). I like to try to talk like a pro, but am in actuality a pimply faced kid in my mom's basement


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## treeslayer2003 (Sep 6, 2013)

bustedup said:


> TS....Bitz and Gologit given ya the best advice ........watch the height of ya back cut and ifn ya gonna plunge and leave a strap then watch when ya release it as it'll go quick and imo release it from under not over ...........The sketch posted by Md was a humbolt face with a snipe but the methods described will work with the conventional or open face too.



definetly under, how ever I don't recommend the plunge and strap to any inexperienced faller. it never been my preference anyway.


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## treeslayer2003 (Sep 6, 2013)

HuskStihl said:


> Prolly best to ignore my video. I put it up as an example of how to bore behind the face from the side. I extended the gunning cut past the face on the near side intentionally to turn the tree and bored out the back leaving a triangle of holding wood before cutting the strip. I am not confident enough to stand in front of a leaner I've faced and bore the heart out thru the face. I will leave that to the real pros (Gologit, Bitzer, Jolly, Treeslayer, Cfaller, Busted). I like to try to talk like a pro, but am in actuality a pimply faced kid in my mom's basement



Jon, you done Purdy good job on that one. but you was swingin it. there is some white oak on this side that is very straight grained. when we get into it things change and swingin those is tricky at best. and you don't need to be that humble bro.


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## bustedup (Sep 6, 2013)

treeslayer2003 said:


> definetly under, how ever I don't recommend the plunge and strap to any inexperienced faller. it never been my preference anyway.



Neither do I Mike way better to coos it or gut it imo a bit more control and well ifn it looks like going tits up more time to leg it


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## treeslayer2003 (Sep 6, 2013)

I ain't tryin to hog this thread but thought of this. by boreing/gutting the hart the tree may slab just a little of the sapwood. that won't matter as it won't be much and it won't go up the tree, only a few inches and that will be slabbed off at the mill anyway.


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## TheJollyLogger (Sep 6, 2013)

Keep in mind guys, he's just cutting 16-20" dbh oaks with a 394xp running a 24, by the time ya get a decent notch and hinge, not a lot of room fore a bore, and way easy to overcut.... the bore... wth's he doing with a 394, I want a 394. Somethin's not right. I'm gonna go eat worms.


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## treeslayer2003 (Sep 6, 2013)

TheJollyLogger said:


> Keep in mind guys, he's just cutting 16-20" dbh oaks with a 394xp running a 24, by the time ya get a decent notch and hinge, not a lot of room fore a bore, and way easy to overcut.... the bore... wth's he doing with a 394, I want a 394. Somethin's not right. I'm gonna go eat worms.



they not that bad bro, I ate a lot of um. yea, that is alota saw, he gonna have to watch what he doing.


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## TheJollyLogger (Sep 6, 2013)

Gentlemen, I believe we just got trolled.


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## treeslayer2003 (Sep 6, 2013)

you think so? if so I gonna be a bit miffed. I was genuinely concerned.


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## TheJollyLogger (Sep 6, 2013)

IDK, he's posted a lot on the chainsaw forum, has a couple parther 500's a poulan, and was talking about an old 359. 394's a hell of a jump.


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## treeslayer2003 (Sep 6, 2013)

I like to see some pics.


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## TheJollyLogger (Sep 6, 2013)

Pics, hell, I still want the saw! We're starting to mill quite a bit, that hoss'd be perfect!


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## HuskStihl (Sep 6, 2013)

TheJollyLogger said:


> Keep in mind guys, he's just cutting 16-20" dbh oaks with a 394xp running a 24, by the time ya get a decent notch and hinge, not a lot of room fore a bore, and way easy to overcut.... the bore... wth's he doing with a 394, I want a 394. Somethin's not right. I'm gonna go eat worms.



Not sure you're experienced enough to run a 394. Well, maybe with safety chain:jester:


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## TheJollyLogger (Sep 6, 2013)

HuskStihl said:


> Not sure you're experienced enough to run a 394. Well, maybe with safety chain:jester:



Got the experience, but after years of climbing, I don't know if the tendonitis in my elbows would let me lift the pig. And I think the saw clip on my saddle is only rated for fifty pounds.


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## northmanlogging (Sep 6, 2013)

day late and dollar short as usual... Alder here tend to chair pretty easy, either cut em fast with a very sharp aggressive chain and too much saw, or use one of the coos bays gologit pictured. 

Put a wide open face on it maybe even use a birds mouth or block face (birds mouth is both top and bottom slope, block is a big fat square chunk with a slope on one side or the other)

Think of a piano hinge (hence hinge wood... get it) if you close it the wrong way too hard the screws holding it together pop loose, much like the fibers holding the tree together.

Also the point of boring the face is to remove as much as the hinge to relieve pressure and help cut through the back side in a hurry.

There is the GOL/Swedish stump dance that involves facing wide open, then plunging in to start the back cut leaving a strap or trigger establishing the hold wood at bare minimum then releasing the trigger or strap. Its slow, takes some practice, only makes sense on leaners and chair prone trees, and the coos is more practical...:rolleyes2:

Look up and plan your lays too


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## bitzer (Sep 6, 2013)

I posted this a while back. T-style Coos Bay with the heart wood gutted from the face. Hard and heavy leaning white oak about 28" on the stump (probably 24" or so dbh). It takes some balls and confidence in your face to stand behind these and finish your cuts though. 











View attachment 313398

View attachment 313399


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## imagineero (Sep 7, 2013)

I had to get out my crayons







This is a version of the coos bay that I haven't seen around much. I think from memory I picked it up from Gerry Beranek. There's no face at all. You just cut the sides out, and then a quick back cut. Take as much out of the sides as you dare, and the closer you get the cuts to parallel with the direction of lay the more you can take out of the sides without the holding wood side snapping. There's obviously no directional control, but heavy leaners are generally going only one way anyhow. This is a good safe and easy cut, it prevents chairing in a different way from the face/bore/back cut. The reason if doesn't chair is because you've taken so much of the sides out. The back cut is in the same plane as the side cuts. The cuts don't all have to match perfectly but it's nice if they do.

I was very skeptical about this cut when I first saw it, the whole idea of not using a face was just too weird. I tried it a few times, then thought about it, tried it a few more times, thought about it etc etc... It makes sense to me now not to use a face for this because you're just taking out holding wood which will make the tree come down earlier (a bad thing). With no face, you can take out a lot of side wood. I've used this cut to take out many heavy head leaners, as much as 45* and it has always gone well.

Shaun


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## bitzer (Sep 7, 2013)

I've posted these before too. Hopefully the OP does show up again. 

White oak with the no face coos. Direction of fall would be north in the picture. Small tree maybe 16" on the stump, but it was like a rainbow. The cuts are not as clean as I would have liked, but I was running a brand new cannon and I didn't want it pinched and have the tree take it for a ride. I made the first cut on the right with the bottom of the bar and back cut the left until she popped. I did this cut on a 24" maple yesterday that had partially tipped with the back of the root ball coming out of the ground. Maple is not prone to chair, but it worked well. The tree was tipped at about a 45. Its a funny feeling when the ball is picking up that you are standing on as you are cutting. 





Ash with the triangle style back cut. Penciled in the first cuts in the back for emphasis. All 3 back cuts were made with the saw wide open. There usually isn't time for screwing around on leaners. 





View attachment 313428

View attachment 313427


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## HuskStihl (Sep 7, 2013)

bitzer said:


> There usually isn't time for screwing around on leaners.



As always awesome Bob.

Ok, I have really small shriveled balls. Don't laugh it's a serious and embarassing medical condition. One side effect of the condition is that I am really scared of trees.

You are crazy good at 'splainin stuff so I can understand, so riddle me this..

Why is it OK, if not preferable, for a noob like me or the op to stand directly in the path of a 5000 pound, already open faced leaner and stick his saw into the face, hoping to not go through the back, but it is less desirable to stand to the side and stick the saw in behind the face? I am currently (temporarily) sober, and not trying to start a fight. Just curious


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## slowp (Sep 7, 2013)

Male anatomy has nothing to do with having common sense. Just a reminder....unless you have that trailer hitch decoration. Then, I'm sure you are able to cut any tree in any situation, without any help--mechanical, internet or human.


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## mdavlee (Sep 7, 2013)

For one you can see where you're cutting easier through the face. You don't have to be right under it any way. You can be off to the side like putting in the back cut. Go from both sides if you need to. I don't usually bore through the things since I've never had a tree way bigger than the bar. I have done the Swedish dance around the stump on some other trees that I wanted all control on.


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## JakeG (Sep 7, 2013)

OP, if you want a visual of what bitzer said... See page 34-35 http://tnvalleywoodclub.org/articles/PDFs/Tree_Felling_Presentation.pdf

If you're still a severe noob (and I'm not saying you are, just sayin'), opt out of felling heavy leaners.


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## HuskStihl (Sep 7, 2013)

slowp said:


> Male anatomy has nothing to do with having common sense. Just a reminder....unless you have that trailer hitch decoration. Then, I'm sure you are able to cut any tree in any situation, without any help--mechanical, internet or human.



I don't drive a Prius, but if I did I would definitely put "Truck Nuts" on it. It would also probably be a pretty pearlescent blue color, cause that's how I roll:biggrin:

I'm sure you guessed, Ms. P, but I did not intend that as a slight against our female-bodied forest dwellers


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## Cfaller (Sep 7, 2013)

imagineero said:


> I had to get out my crayons
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I also like this version of the coos bay. A couple of things to add would be to put wedges in your side cuts. This is really important if the tree also has some side lean to it. I like to put the wedges where the face cut would normally go. If you set them to far back you'll end up cutting them when you make your back cut. One other thing is to make sure the side cuts are horizontal to each other. I'll scribe the bark to help do this. 

Leaner's felled with this cut also roll out of other trees nicely with this cut.


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## Boleclimber (Sep 7, 2013)

I use the bore cut method on all saw log timber. Depending on the tree at hand I may cut the heart and side holding wood on the hinge in the process. Using a bore cut requires leaving enough hinge to hold the fall direction but not enough hinge to cause a barber chair. In my experience the bore cut reduces the possibility of a tree setting back and pinching the bar.


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## bitzer (Sep 7, 2013)

Bore cutting has nothing to do with reducing the chance of a tree sitting back and is not necessary for every tree or as I've found not necessary at all. Anyway....

Jon here is why you can get away with boring the heart form the face.

On a tree leaning as hard as this white oak was this is approximately where the compression and tension wood was. When you bore that heart out from the face nearly all of that wood behind the face is tension wood which means more than half the wood on the stump is keeping that tree there. The only kicker would be is that the wood is unsound which if it were the tree would most likely not be standing anyway. Boring the heart wood does two things- removes compression wood and also reduces fiber pull out of the butt log. It really has nothing to do with how the back cut is made. you can bore the heart and the back cut if you want. If you bore your back cut from the side there is a very good chance of the tree sitting down on your saw hard. Usually as soon as you poke through the far side. Can it be done that way sure. I used to do it all the time. You just have to be super careful. For me though boring takes nearly twice as long as the coos bay and it really screws your day when your saw is clutch side down inches from the dirt and the dogs are touching the wood as the tree sits down really hard on your bar as you bore the back cut. 




Just to clear up any confusion this is how I made the bore and back cuts. Both back cuts I am standing behind the tree. I do not believe that a hard leaner needs a shallower face. I think its the opposite. If you only make a face 1/4 way into the tree you are leaving all of that compression wood behind it which retains that chair tendency. On this oak I had to ream a little on my gunning (horizontal) cut to get it back to where I wanted it. This can get you into trouble if you are not used to feeling your saw being pinched. 





This is how bad this white oak was leaning and how heavy the top was. I think I made 4 10s and an 8 out of it. There was a pretty heavy top on it too.





Just another clarification on that no face coos white oak.





Also white oak swings very well. Its stringy enough to stay on the stump instead of pop off allowing for the swing. You just have to have it cut up right in the face and Dutchman. I actually like swinging them. I've cut 70mbf jobs where 90% of the wood was white oak and a lot of it leaning. Lots of time to get creative. 
View attachment 313550

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## JakeG (Sep 8, 2013)

Howdy Bitzer, your first two pictures look like my stumps on heavy leaning white oaks. The only difference is I'm not standing behind the stump for the 2nd/final back cut. I move off to the text book "safe-zone" area using the back bar again. So, 1st back cut I'm standing behind the stump perpendicular to the hinge. 2nd back cut my bar is parallel to the hinge and I'm neither diretly behind the stump nor 90* to the face. So question is, should I be behind the stump or does it matter in most cases? Everything I've learned says don't stand behind the stump.

Thanks for the explanation and pics on the no face coos. I don't recall ever seeing or hearing about the no face coos but then again, I haven't been on AS for long! By looking at your pic, I can see how it works... Good job sir :msp_thumbup:


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## Boleclimber (Sep 8, 2013)

Bitzer, I disagree. Bore cutting allows you to place wedges and pressure them before cutting the backwood. If the sawyer misjudges a slight lean, the saw is free and the wedges take the weight.


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## Gologit (Sep 8, 2013)

Boleclimber said:


> Bitzer, I disagree. Bore cutting allows you to place wedges and pressure them before cutting the backwood. If the sawyer misjudges a slight lean, the saw is free and the wedges take the weight.



Go back and read Bitzer's description again. He knows what he's doing. You, by comparison and in this particular case, do not.

I know that you mean well but there's a tremendous difference in the skill and experience level between the two of you.


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## HuskStihl (Sep 8, 2013)

Thanks Bitz, those are beautiful stumps and very well explained. Most guys on this forum have a pretty good and accurate idea of my ability level (unlike me!), but I've been enjoying "Swedishing" hardwood leaners recently. I stick in a face, bore out chairing wood and back bar the strap. I don't really even have to move my feet, which helps me stay pudgy. 
This drives busted crazy, but every month or so I adopt a new falling technique, incorrectly apply it to some trees, make a video for y'all's amusement and move on to the next technique. If I were a production faller I would prolly approach it differently


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## Gologit (Sep 8, 2013)

HuskStihl said:


> .... every month or so I adopt a new falling technique, incorrectly apply it to some trees, make a video for y'all's amusement and move on to the next technique.



Nothing wrong with trying different techniques. It's called _learning_. Sometimes all you'll learn is not to use that particular technique in that particular instance...but it's still learning.

As far as being a production faller goes, all we really know for sure is that even with all of our knowledge and skill and tricky cuts, every once in awhile the tree will do something totally unexpected.

You can fall a hundred trees and have everything go exactly the way you want it to and you get to thinking that you're pretty good. Then, that next tree will do something that has you running for your life. It humbles you...and it should.

I had a big cedar set down on my bar a few years back, mainly because I'd gotten in a hurry and misjudged the lean. It was almost all the way sawed up and the wind was rocking it back and forth on the hinge. Nasty situation. I was beating wedges and cussing and beating some more and cussing and doubling up the wedges and cussing. My partner had heard all the commotion and he hollered over at me..."Hey, just throw your reputation at it...that SOB will fall right over". Like I said...humbling.


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## treeslayer2003 (Sep 8, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Nothing wrong with trying different techniques. It's called _learning_. Sometimes all you'll learn is not to use that particular technique in that particular instance...but it's still learning.
> 
> As far as being a production faller goes, all we really know for sure is that even with all of our knowledge and skill and tricky cuts, every once in awhile the tree will do something totally unexpected.
> 
> ...



 so tru right there. i'd say that happens to everyone.....exept Randy.


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## Boleclimber (Sep 8, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Go back and read Bitzer's description again. He knows what he's doing. You, by comparison and in this particular case, do not.
> 
> I know that you mean well but *there's a tremendous difference in the skill and experience level between the two of you.*



Was that you I saw creeping around the woodlot I was on this past week? I was wondering who was attempting to learn my experience level.


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## HuskStihl (Sep 8, 2013)

Boleclimber said:


> Was that you I saw creeping around the woodlot I was on this past week? I was wondering who was attempting to learn my experience level.



Sorry, that was me. I eventually get around to spying on all AS members, trying to find people who match cuts worse than me. So far I've found 7 only of about 2350 I've seen. I'm not going to give out names, to protect the guilty, but you're not on the list. Carry on as you were. I'll of course delete the videos I made of you cutting


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## HuskStihl (Sep 8, 2013)

Gologit said:


> You can fall a hundred trees and have everything go exactly the way you want it to and you get to thinking that you're pretty good. Then, that next tree will do something that has you running for your life. It humbles you...and it should.



I don't need 100 to be humbled. There's a certain feeling you get when you are ####ing up a face cut. I've ####ed them up accidentally, and on purpose, but the result is similar. You beat wedges with the hope you can fix it, but you know that sooner or later, the tree will fall the wrong direction and hit that one thing you were trying to avoid. It's actually worse cause you have plenty of time to curse your stupidity before *and* after.

I've fallen a couple that I thought I did everything right and stood there dumbfounded watching it smash a fence or something else. 

I intentionally talk a big game just to keep Busted in panic/nanny mode:msp_biggrin:, but know my limitations.

Bob, I _did_ hear you got around a bit in high school, but I wouldn't say you have a "reputation".:jester:

Hope y'all have a safe and profitable week


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## HuskStihl (Sep 8, 2013)

HuskStihl said:


> So far I've found 7 only of about 2350 I've seen. I'm not going to give out names, to protect the guilty



One of their user names rhymes with Grass Twine Fly, another with Pan-O, and I can't mention a third as he was placed in falling witless protection


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## TheJollyLogger (Sep 8, 2013)

Has anyone else noticed the OP disappeared?


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## Eccentric (Sep 8, 2013)

TheJollyLogger said:


> Gentlemen, I believe we just got trolled.





treeslayer2003 said:


> you think so? if so I gonna be a bit miffed. I was genuinely concerned.



I can understand feeling a tad miffed if you fellows were indeed trolled. Myself, I don't care either way (regarding the suspected 'trolling') in this case. Some *extremely* knowledgeable folks took the time to explain stuff (with pics and diagrams no less) and I learned a lot from it.




TheJollyLogger said:


> Has anyone else noticed the OP disappeared?



Could be that he was overwhelmed. Early on he made a "wow you've thrown a lot of terms at me" type comment. Maybe he's decided that this 'simple' tree cuttin' business ain't so simple afterall.....


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## TheJollyLogger (Sep 8, 2013)

No, it's def a good thread. I've learned a trick or two.


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## treeslayer2003 (Sep 8, 2013)

TheJollyLogger said:


> Has anyone else noticed the OP disappeared?



yup, i'm hoping he got sic of reading. that better than.....well it could be he can't read no more or reply. I hope that not the case.


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## Eccentric (Sep 8, 2013)

treeslayer2003 said:


> yup, i'm hoping he got sic of reading. that better than.....*well it could be he can't read no more or reply.* I hope that not the case.



Yikes. That's not a good thought. The guy certainly seemed to be FAR too 'green' to be tackling leaners without direct supervision/guidance...


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## bitzer (Sep 8, 2013)

Boleclimber said:


> Bitzer, I disagree. Bore cutting allows you to place wedges and pressure them before cutting the backwood. If the sawyer misjudges a slight lean, the saw is free and the wedges take the weight.



If a tree is standing straight up enough that you may have misjudged the lean there is absolutely no need to have bore cut it in the first place. Back cut it and read your tree. Place a wedge in lightly as a bobber if needed. It will either tip or you will need to wedge it. Unnecessarily boring and pounding wedges into back cuts wastes a lot of time and energy. 

And by the way Gologit was laying out OG redwoods before you were even a thought in this world.


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## bitzer (Sep 8, 2013)

JakeG said:


> Howdy Bitzer, your first two pictures look like my stumps on heavy leaning white oaks. The only difference is I'm not standing behind the stump for the 2nd/final back cut. I move off to the text book "safe-zone" area using the back bar again. So, 1st back cut I'm standing behind the stump perpendicular to the hinge. 2nd back cut my bar is parallel to the hinge and I'm neither diretly behind the stump nor 90* to the face. So question is, should I be behind the stump or does it matter in most cases? Everything I've learned says don't stand behind the stump.
> 
> Thanks for the explanation and pics on the no face coos. I don't recall ever seeing or hearing about the no face coos but then again, I haven't been on AS for long! By looking at your pic, I can see how it works... Good job sir :msp_thumbup:



Are you starting your second back cut close the hinge and moving back? On bigger timber you can't really stand directly behind it anyway. You sort of have to work from the hinge back. If its working and you feel safe about it, I'm sure its fine. There is all kinds of room for improvisation in timber falling. I think that is what makes a good faller.


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## bustedup (Sep 8, 2013)

bitzer said:


> If a tree is standing straight up enough that you may have misjudged the lean there is absolutely no need to have bore cut it in the first place. Back cut it and read your tree. Place a wedge in lightly as a bobber if needed. It will either tip or you will need to wedge it. Unnecessarily boring and pounding wedges into back cuts wastes a lot of time and energy.
> 
> And by the way Gologit was laying out OG redwoods before you were even a thought in this world.



Well said Bitz ....oh and good explanation on earlier post ........I was gonna chime in as I really didn't get his theory but hey ho lol


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## bitzer (Sep 8, 2013)

bustedup said:


> Well said Bitz ....oh and good explanation on earlier post ........I was gonna chime in as I really didn't get his theory but hey ho lol



Thank you sir!


And thanks to Gologit too! I'm about average on the timber falling thing. Flat ground that is. I bet I'd make a mess of a steep hillside full of tall conifers.

Well looks the OP got scared again. If I had a dollar for every thread like this. Oh well. He could at least have the common courtesy to say thanks.


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## treeslayer2003 (Sep 8, 2013)

bitzer said:


> Thank you sir!
> 
> 
> And thanks to Gologit too! I'm about average on the timber falling thing. Flat ground that is. I bet I'd make a mess of a steep hillside full of tall conifers.
> ...



or let us know ifn he is alive.


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## HuskStihl (Sep 8, 2013)

Eccentric said:


> Some *extremely* knowledgeable folks took the time to explain stuff D



You're welcome Aaron, glad to be of service:msp_biggrin:



If y'all remember the original post was something about wanting a short video on how to fall white oak leaners. Don't suspect trolling, just a dude who got more than he bargained for. He shoulda asked it in the chainsaw forum.

I don't think jake bores, and really can't get my head around what he means. He's smart, so the post prolly makes sense, but not to me or the old englishman


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## JakeG (Sep 8, 2013)

bitzer said:


> Are you starting your second back cut close the hinge and moving back? On bigger timber you can't really stand directly behind it anyway. You sort of have to work from the hinge back. If its working and you feel safe about it, I'm sure its fine. There is all kinds of room for improvisation in timber falling. I think that is what makes a good faller.



I usually start the second back cut from the back and work towards the holding wood. What you said about not really bein able to stand behind the stump is true and I'll probably try it that way next time... Starting from the hinge and work back.


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## bustedup (Sep 8, 2013)

HuskStihl said:


> You're welcome Aaron, glad to be of service:msp_biggrin:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm a scot lol and I must admit I am a tad confused lol.......however I think it could be either he asking bitz bout the coos ......or he talking bout releasing the back strap after a GOL style tech ......


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## JakeG (Sep 8, 2013)

Lol, what's important is that this information is out there and hopefully it'll help a few more people. 

They just need to weed through the BS. That's all part of being on a forum. 

FUTURE THREAD READERS: Listen to bitzer.


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## Boleclimber (Sep 9, 2013)

bitzer said:


> If a tree is standing straight up enough that you may have misjudged the lean there is absolutely no need to have bore cut it in the first place. Back cut it and read your tree. Place a wedge in lightly as a bobber if needed. It will either tip or you will need to wedge it. Unnecessarily boring and pounding wedges into back cuts wastes a lot of time and energy.
> 
> And by the way* Gologit was laying out OG redwoods before you were even a thought in this world*.



You two have a serious Bromance going on.


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## Boleclimber (Sep 9, 2013)

bitzer said:


> If a tree is standing straight up enough that you may have misjudged the lean there is absolutely no need to have bore cut it in the first place. Back cut it and read your tree. Place a wedge in lightly as a bobber if needed. It will either tip or you will need to wedge it. Unnecessarily boring and pounding wedges into back cuts wastes a lot of time and energy.
> 
> And by the way Gologit was laying out OG redwoods before you were even a thought in this world.



How many years are you claiming? I'll let you know if it is more years than my woods experience or time on the planet.


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## bustedup (Sep 9, 2013)

Boleclimber said:


> How many years are you claiming? I'll let you know if it is more years than my woods experience or time on the planet.



Don't be a Dork lol........and I wouldn't go head ta head with Gologit on experience .....ya will lose lol


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## bitzer (Sep 9, 2013)

Boleclimber said:


> How many years are you claiming? I'll let you know if it is more years than my woods experience or time on the planet.



I've got a lot of respect for anyone who has cut old growth timber on the west coast. Especially when American made saws were running the show. Men like Gologit are getting fewer and farther between. I'm sure he has seen his share of 1 log loads. Something I'd have would have love to been a part of. In that size of wood you would have no idea of where to begin in putting them on the ground or what to do with it if you did get it down. You should shut your ####### trap and you might learn something. Or you could keep mindlessly bore cutting every single ####### tree you come across. There is no skill involved in popping a chip out and boring it. Any monkey with some proficiency with a saw can do it. The art of timber falling is an entirely different story that you may likely never know anything about. Here is a question for you- before there were power saws how did the boys get trees on the ground with axes and cross-cuts? They didn't bore a ####### thing. Good luck.


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## bustedup (Sep 9, 2013)

bitzer said:


> I've got a lot of respect for anyone who has cut old growth timber on the west coast. Especially when American made saws were running the show. Men like Gologit are getting fewer and farther between. I'm sure he has seen his share of 1 log loads. Something I'd have would have love to been a part of. In that size of wood you would have no idea of where to begin in putting them on the ground or what to do with it if you did get it down. You should shut your ####### trap and you might learn something. Or you could keep mindlessly bore cutting every single ####### tree you come across. There is no skill involved in popping a chip out and boring it. Any monkey with some proficiency with a saw can do it. The art of timber falling is an entirely different story that you may likely never know anything about. Here is a question for you- before there were power saws how did the boys get trees on the ground with axes and cross-cuts? They didn't bore a ####### thing. Good luck.



Kinda sums things up lol


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## paccity (Sep 9, 2013)

HA! didn't see that coming  did ya


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## bustedup (Sep 9, 2013)

paccity said:


> HA! didn't see that coming  did ya



That cause he bore cutting lol


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## northmanlogging (Sep 9, 2013)

This is great... For once I'm not the guy #####ing about mindless drones boring everything...

Dear bolecutter if you haven't spent the better part of 40 or more years in the woods, kindly turn the other cheek. Dumping the occasional 3 footer in ma's 40 acres is very different then dumping 5' plus trees all day every day. not to mention everyone of them is over 150' tall or usually taller. On steep ground with very little room to run, if any. Gologit and Randy are mostly retired... sort of... not many around here retire as loggers most quit and move to boeing, or microsoft, the rest get maimed or killed... on the job...


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## SomeotherGuy (Sep 9, 2013)

Trolled or not, I got a DOC and a PDF CHOCK FULL of good stuff for this fire wood bandit.

Thank you guys for taking the time to post all this good information on here!!!

p.s. I got me a 390, and its not that heavy..... :msp_wink:


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## HuskStihl (Sep 9, 2013)

Boleclimber said:


> How many years are you claiming? I'll let you know if it is more years than my woods experience or time on the planet.



Think dirt meets methuselah, that should get you ballpark. Whistlepunk99


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## HuskStihl (Sep 9, 2013)

BTW boys, I'm the one currently boring all the leaners. Usually when I start something the crowd follows:jester:


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## Gologit (Sep 9, 2013)

Boleclimber said:


> How many years are you claiming? I'll let you know if it is more years than my woods experience or time on the planet.



I've been working in the woods for just over 50 years. That enough for you, meat?


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## Gologit (Sep 9, 2013)

HuskStihl said:


> BTW boys, I'm the one currently boring all the leaners. Usually when I start something the crowd follows:jester:



Not this crowd. Besides we make special allowances for you.


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## HuskStihl (Sep 10, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Not this crowd. Besides we make special allowances for you.



Mama always said I was special

Hey Poledancer, Gologit and RandyMac have forgotten more about where they live and what they were just doing a second ago than you will ever know about not boring






:hmm3grin2orange:


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## HuskStihl (Sep 10, 2013)

bitzer said:


> Are you starting your second back cut close the hinge and moving back? On bigger timber you can't really stand directly behind it anyway. You sort of have to work from the hinge back. If its working and you feel safe about it, I'm sure its fine. There is all kinds of room for improvisation in timber falling. I think that is what makes a good faller.





JakeG said:


> I usually start the second back cut from the back and work towards the holding wood. What you said about not really bein able to stand behind the stump is true and I'll probably try it that way next time... Starting from the hinge and work back.



Thanks a lot guys, I mean _really?_. I know I'm an annoying noobie, but punking me for over a year letting me think trees can be falled with _one_ backcut?! I tried every type of sloping back cut, and accidentally threw in a few level ones, but still no directional control. And to think I thought y'all were laughing _with_ me



This was a joke, I am well aware y'all were never laughing _with_ me. (And that they're prolly talkin bout the three "back cuts" in a "triangle" coos bay)


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## HuskStihl (Sep 10, 2013)

OK, you were being ganged up on (although I was kidding), but nobody implied you were having homosexual intercourse with other members. I never much liked will and grace, and am old enough that making that implication meant a fight. You should retract those statements ASAP


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## stihl sawing (Sep 10, 2013)

Besides, i'm an old fart too.


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## stihl sawing (Sep 10, 2013)

HuskStihl said:


> OK, you were being ganged up on (although I was kidding), but nobody implied you were having homosexual intercourse with other members. I never much liked will and grace, and am old enough that making that implication meant a fight. *You should retract those statements* ASAP


statements gone, I deleted it.


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## Blazin (Sep 10, 2013)

Gologit said:


> I've been working in the woods for just over 50 years. That enough for you, meat?



Huh, after all that time you should be able to read dangerous situations by now :msp_wink:


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