# Alder, Alder, Alder



## Spotted Owl (Aug 27, 2012)

It's a darned good thing we had and alder job earlier in the year. Cause we're burning it right now. Holy carp suckers, it's 47 and raining and in the middle of Aug we have a fire going int he stove. My stars what is going on.

Steep, I'm 4 feet from the edge, and the boy is almost 6'4"
View attachment 250267


Lining up.
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Giving a helping hand in the hole.
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Checking the lay on this one and hearing what he is thinking.
View attachment 250270


Some times teaching involves huge amounts of trust, I would not do this for anyone but this kids right here.
View attachment 250271


If it works, more in the next post.



Owl


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## Spotted Owl (Aug 27, 2012)

More yet.

Coaching sucks at times.
View attachment 250274


On his own with this one.
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Backing it up.
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And away it goes
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Bad crooked leaner, he wanted some more coaching on this one.
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Owl


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## H 2 H (Aug 27, 2012)

Sure is cooler here; but no rain yet here (Stanwood)


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## slowp (Aug 27, 2012)

Are those going to the mill? Or the woodshed? They are of decent size for alder. 

No rain here. I've got to irrigate today.

More pictures please.


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## Gologit (Aug 27, 2012)

Yup...more pictures.


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## Joe46 (Aug 27, 2012)

Cut a lot of Alder. Never liked them!


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## ShaneLogs (Aug 27, 2012)

Congrats on taking out those pesky Alders! Looks like some good firewood you got your self too.


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## forestryworks (Aug 27, 2012)

Looks like a fun time!

Owl, with that mustache ya got, you could pass yourself off as an unsavory character from that "Deadwood" tv show


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## H 2 H (Aug 27, 2012)

Joe46 said:


> Cut a lot of Alder. Never liked them!




Alder is what I like to burn it makes up about 90% of what I burn during the winter months :msp_biggrin:


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## Humptulips (Aug 27, 2012)

Yep,
What's with the weather? Fire in the stove today and yesterday. I'm burning hemlock though.
Good soaker of a rain last night but clear and cool today.


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## H 2 H (Aug 27, 2012)

Humptulips said:


> Yep,
> What's with the weather? Fire in the stove today and yesterday. I'm burning hemlock though.
> Good soaker of a rain last night but clear and cool today.



Weird yesterday looked like rain 3/4 of the day; woke up this morning and we had a marine layer (here in Stanwood) right now beautiful sun shine :msp_smile:


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## Spotted Owl (Aug 27, 2012)

forestryworks said:


> Looks like a fun time!
> 
> Owl, with that mustache ya got, you could pass yourself off as an unsavory character from that "Deadwood" tv show



It was a good day, Turned into a real fun firewood day for us. Bull didn't want to pick up all the stragglers that he "marked out". Not a production day so we didn't have all our gear on and dragging with us. Probably should have had our lids on though, but we could take our time and watch everything as close as possible. I should have had my glasses on too.

No TV here so I don't know what Deadwood is, but.... I have among other things been referred to as unsavory in the past, at time or two, not to much though.


Crumpler, how is your educating going? Are you done yet? 

Get done and get out here Mr. rumor has it something big is going to happen, just not sure when. Some kinda swap and new company has their plan ready to implement. So it be told the the new company on the block out here is going to run, get this. For a loss, for a write off for the rest of whatever they do. Oh well, whatever so long as guys are working and food gets put on the table, I don't give two itches what where or why they do what they do.

Oh ya I'm working on some more photos, ya I'll be right back. Huh sure.



Owl


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## paccity (Aug 27, 2012)

Spotted Owl said:


> It was a good day, Turned into a real fun firewood day for us. Bull didn't want to pick up all the stragglers that he "marked out". Not a production day so we didn't have all our gear on and dragging with us. Probably should have had our lids on though, but we could take our time and watch everything as close as possible. I should have had my glasses on too.
> 
> No TV here so I don't know what Deadwood is, but.... I have among other things been referred to as unsavory in the past, at time or two, not to much though.
> 
> ...


 that wouldnot be a certain investment co. that starts with an "h"?


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## Spotted Owl (Aug 27, 2012)

Yup, so I've been hearing a lot about. Ends with a "K". I think it was Stimpson that the either bought from or swapped/traded a pile of ground a couple years ago. 

You home? Might give a call here in the next little bit, soon as I find out what the boy is up too.



Owl


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## Spotted Owl (Aug 27, 2012)

Gologit said:


> Yup...more pictures.



Holy smoke smokes, I now realize why I don't know how to do pictures. Cause they are a pain in the but and take forever. 

But, for you and Ms. P, I'll see what I can come up with.

That's sure one thing I wish I had done more of, is take pictures, especially when the boy is out with me.

This is clearing the road for getting the machines in. Bull found and blue paint can, and boy did he think he was somebody. Could have gone to the mill easy but we took it for the wood shed. Got some BIG alder coming up. The big'uns taped out at at real close to 30", but there isn't many of those. This is gonna be a bugger of a job, some of these brittle son of a guns are coming strait out of the side and then shooting up. Everyone has a buddy on this job, 2 guys per tree no exceptions, Bulls orders. At least there's no big push on this job. The owner just wants things cleared out and doesn't like alder at all. Ha the boy has never cut before when he has to be tied off, he really gave me the stink eye when he saw me put the eye on his belt.

Alder is quite possibly my favorite to cut. Man does that stuff keep you on your toes, lofing and lolly gagging not allowed. I think big punkin fir, the stuff that's bar width or better, beats it out though.

One of my favorites.
View attachment 250352


What happens when Dad doesn't think you're fast enough.
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Oops.
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Destroy the evidence, he didn't want this hanging around.
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Sentimental time for me, he was 10 here. The day after his first full day dragging my jugs around. I think he was asleep before he closed the door that afternoon. This is the next day, he wanted to go sturgeon fish'in. So we went, we got him his first sturgeon that day and that was all he could take, this is about 20 min after the fish and about 5 min after lunch.
View attachment 250361




Owl


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## northmanlogging (Aug 27, 2012)

I like alder Home owners never realize how much the mills pay for it, it usually not to limby and it makes great fire wood, Kinda fun to cut too except that whole wanting to chair on ya thing, Nice sharp chain with a hot running saw oh yeah thems good times.:tongue2:


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## tramp bushler (Aug 29, 2012)

We've had 8 or 9 good frosts so far this month. It was 28 degree. F this morning.




.



Owl, all ya need is one of these Smarty pants phone. Pics are easy peasy. Not as good for turning the pics right side up.
Leaves are turning.


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## madhatte (Aug 30, 2012)

northmanlogging said:


> Nice sharp chain with a hot running saw oh yeah thems good times.:tongue2:



That doesn't just go for alder!


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## Spotted Owl (Aug 30, 2012)

tramp bushler said:


> Owl, all ya need is one of these Smarty pants phone. Pics are easy peasy. Not as good for turning the pics right side up.
> Leaves are turning.



No sir, No thank you. I just got my first cell about 2 months ago. The kids laugh at me cause it's what ever they call a flip phone. I had the boy block all but a handful of numbers. That way if, IF, I hear it, IF I even remember to turn it on. I know that it's someone that needs to talk to me(kids/home).

No phone, no thanks, I'm still good with the pony express or the real land line they call it, phone, two shorts and a ring please.

I'm perfectly happy where I am, that is, not even close to crossing the digital divide yet.

Them trees are starting to look familiar for our little hole here. Even the grapes are already turning. Winter maybe bad, the old timers are pulling their pumps this year, complete pull up into the barn, not just drain and cover type pull. These are the 80+ old timers.



Owl


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## slowp (Aug 30, 2012)

Spotted Owl said:


> No sir, No thank you. I just got my first cell about 2 months ago. The kids laugh at me cause it's what ever they call a flip phone. I had the boy block all but a handful of numbers. That way if, IF, I hear it, IF I even remember to turn it on. I know that it's someone that needs to talk to me(kids/home).
> 
> No phone, no thanks, I'm still good with the pony express or the real land line they call it, phone, two shorts and a ring please.
> 
> ...



YAY! I'm not alone. I have had a cell phone for 3 years now. I've never come close to using up the minutes. The camera goes off frequently taking pictures of the inside of my pocket. Turning it on is hard to remember. 

More pictures of your alder killing please. 

Hmmm. I have heard rumors of El Nino which means warmer, dryer for here, I think. But I believe in winterizing no matter what the rumor/prediction is.


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## tramp bushler (Aug 31, 2012)

I didn't get into teck until I started working above the Circle out west. Pretty nice be able to communicate with my wife daily and not have it be a major hassle . 
Heck I sent a text while I typed this reply. 

I'll figure out how to turn pics up right with this yet. .
Had to shovel out the wood stove this evening. Wife wants a fire in the mornings. 30 degree.this morning.


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## northmanlogging (Aug 31, 2012)

yous guys are making me rethink how much wood I have in the wood shed, hope its enough, Still gotta modify the generator to fit the tractor three point and pto fill the propane tanks and lay in some extra fuel...


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## tramp bushler (Aug 31, 2012)

Termination Dust in some of the Coast Range ..


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## ArtB (Sep 2, 2012)

re:
_
we're burning it right now_

There was a follow on post about how HO do not realize how much mills are now paying for large alder (>18"). My neighbor down by Mossyrock has a furniture factory paying him $1100 cord for >18" alder in approx 16 ft lengths, then the furniture factory pays for shipping to the East coast on top of that. 

40 years ago thought alder was a 'weed', even burned some of that 30" dia stuff. Just letting it grow now, just burn the twisted/branchy stuff. One stump in back is on it's 3rd 'contribution' to the firewood pile - 1st was just the 20" bole and such, 2nd (about 15 years ago) were the 6 or so 8" 'volunteer' shoots, now there are about 10 8" sprouts ready to cut again.


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## tramp bushler (Sep 2, 2012)

Now that's truly a renewable resource.


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## slowp (Sep 2, 2012)

I find it hard to grow straight alder. That's what the high priced stuff is--fairly straight. 
I have transplanted alder and will interplant cedar next year. That's on a small little bit of former yard.


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## tramp bushler (Sep 2, 2012)

I think Red Alder needs to grow in a tight stand to grow straight.


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## northmanlogging (Sep 2, 2012)

Is there such a thing as a straight alder? Don't think I've ever seen one, If there is they should put up a sign and mark it on the tourist maps...(so my saw can find its way there and cut it down)


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## tramp bushler (Sep 2, 2012)

I've seen lots of them in Southeast. 
I don't think I've seen one over 80' tall. But they were relatively young, in the 40 year old range.


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## northmanlogging (Sep 2, 2012)

Yeah the little ones but who cares about the little ones?... except foresters... and those kids that make mini yarders out of rc cars:msp_smile:


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## Humptulips (Sep 2, 2012)

tramp bushler said:


> I didn't get into teck until I started working above the Circle out west. Pretty nice be able to communicate with my wife daily and not have it be a major hassle .
> Heck I sent a text while I typed this reply.
> 
> I'll figure out how to turn pics up right with this yet. .
> Had to shovel out the wood stove this evening. Wife wants a fire in the mornings. 30 degree.this morning.



Tramp,
I'm very non-tech. I do have a cell but rarely use it.
I can however tell you how to get your pictures turned right side up.







Turn you camera-phone sideways when you take the picture.:msp_biggrin::msp_biggrin::msp_biggrin:


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## slowp (Sep 3, 2012)

Alder doesn't have a very long life. It grows fast. My patch that I started working on for fun and is around 5 years old, is 10 feet tall. The ones that I moved last year, are knee high at one year. I need to do some work on those now that they look like they will survive. I've cut some of the young stuff and made rustic trellises for roses. 

One of the big landowners planted alder in a clearcut. Who'da thunk that a few years ago? 

I have been told that alder won't do well when replanted after a rotation of alder has been harvested.
Does anybody know if this is true?


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## madhatte (Sep 3, 2012)

slowp said:


> I have been told that alder won't do well when replanted after a rotation of alder has been harvested.
> Does anybody know if this is true?



Seems to me it would do well, especially with _Frankia_ populations pre-established in the soil. I'll ask some experts and see what they have to say.


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## OlympicYJ (Sep 3, 2012)

tramp bushler said:


> I think Red Alder needs to grow in a tight stand to grow straight.



You are correct tramp. Tight growing alder gives you your straight sticks. The tightness also allows it to self prune quite high and given ideal self pruning you get your alder slicers. The alder plantations that are coming up are phenomenal in respect to straight, limb free stems. If allowed to go long enough you'd have allot of nice slicer wood in those plantations. Slicers are going around $1200 a thou last time I checked, almost 5 months ago. The trick to growing alder is through thinning because as soon as you get crown closure, upward growth slows down significantly; and can stagnate if not done at the right time.

One reason its so hard to find straight alder is because it likes to grow toward the light. Only trees deep inside the stand will be "straight," for an alder that is. lol

Northman... I know where there's a nice straight stand of approx 25yr old alder, one of the first experimental plantations in the country, but I don't think Weyco would appreciate your enthusiasm for killin their alder  

Slowp:

Alder does better on soil that is lacking in nitrogen. Being a nitrogen fixer they love mineral soil that has low levels of nitrogen, such as after a conifer harvest. This is what makes them a great pioneer species. I do believe they have a built in response not to germinate in high nitrogen areas. Maybe someone that knows more about this than I could add substance or correct me? When used in rotation with conifer it's a great way to get some natural fert done. The only problem is planted alder cannot grow just anywhere. Bottom ground, for instance, near water has a more persistent frost layer and is hell on the roots. Benches above rivers are prime for plantation alder. Basically your best fir ground is your best alder ground. There was a conference done at the UW, if memory serves, that combined lots of Alder research into one document that can be found on tree search.

Alder is a passion of mine... strange I know lol Alder is definitely an ugly duckling story lol


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## slowp (Sep 3, 2012)

I have a strange piece of ground. It is only 5 acres, and not much flat to it. My house is on top of a rocky knob. The soil is pumice and drains fast. But cedar sprout up naturally here. Alder would take over if I didn't mow and weedwhack. It sprouts up in any place that doesn't have grass planted--including the flower beds. 

I can't figure out the cedar thing. But I plant a few each year, and they do well along with the naturals.


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## Wazzu (Sep 3, 2012)

forestryworks said:


> Looks like a fun time!
> 
> Owl, with that mustache ya got, you could pass yourself off as an unsavory character from that "Deadwood" tv show



You mean that cork sucker Al Swearingen. Ha ha. Good show. My apologies if you have not seen the show, it has a TON of cussing.


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## northmanlogging (Sep 3, 2012)

I just wish I knew more about the forestry/ecology of it all, Why some spots grow cotton wood and ceder others its alder ceder and fir, Spruce and hemlock, Maples only. Its all very interesting. Weyco has a long sorted history of pioneering timber practices here its no surprise that they have one the first alder plantations


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## tramp bushler (Sep 3, 2012)

IMO the hardwoods do well where the top of the soil has been exposed. Unless it is a well draining soil, they don't do very well if the permafrost is close to the surface. You guys prolly don't have to worry about permafrost
.
When a fire goes thru or a big wind that uproots trees they grow good. Also if a road or landing ect gets built hardwood will most of the time come up first. Followed by spruce. , Sitka or White. Black spruce grow on poorly drained soil on top of permafrost. At least in Alaska.


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## Metals406 (Sep 3, 2012)

Wish our Alder grew that big here. 

Might find an 8"-10" tree now and then, but it would be the exception.


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## OlympicYJ (Sep 3, 2012)

slowp said:


> I have a strange piece of ground. It is only 5 acres, and not much flat to it. My house is on top of a rocky knob. The soil is pumice and drains fast. But cedar sprout up naturally here. Alder would take over if I didn't mow and weedwhack. It sprouts up in any place that doesn't have grass planted--including the flower beds.
> 
> I can't figure out the cedar thing. But I plant a few each year, and they do well along with the naturals.



I'm not too surprised by the cedar. Sometimes they will grow in well drained soils just not the greatest. Must be some little micro climate goin on there where more moisture is retained at that specific spot. Also if there is an established cedar close by, in a spot of soil that isn't well drained, just dumping seed on the place I could see cedar coming up as well. How old are they slowp? Reason I ask is they may not survive very well. Remember trees will start to grow where they aren't suitable but it doesn't mean they will survive to maturity. 



northmanlogging said:


> I just wish I knew more about the forestry/ecology of it all, Why some spots grow cotton wood and ceder others its alder ceder and fir, Spruce and hemlock, Maples only. Its all very interesting. Weyco has a long sorted history of pioneering timber practices here its no surprise that they have one the first alder plantations



Hey here's a good book out of OSU that covers silviculture and Ecology and it's only $37 so not too hard on the wallet for the knowledge gained. If you have trouble with some of the terms just use google or you could get the Dictionary of Forestry to help out; really good reference book so I'd think about it anyway. The book is Silviculture and Ecology of Western U.S. Forests by John C. Tappeiner II, Douglas A. Maguire, and Timothy B. Harrington. ISBN 978-0-87071-187-9


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## slowp (Sep 3, 2012)

I have cedar of many ages and many second or third growth sizes growing here. I wish I would have noticed that one is a candelabra prior to building the house. The largest is probably--I'm guesstimating 24 inches diameter and
looks 70 to 80 feet tall. 

I planted 5 Incense Cedars in one area. They are also doing well. They all look happy and healthy. 

I worried about one of the native cedars after the maple next to it died and was cut down, but it too seems to be doing well.


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## OlympicYJ (Sep 3, 2012)

Very nice slowp! I like having different species in yards... not much of a flower guy lol I do like ferns and bear grass though


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## slowp (Sep 3, 2012)

I was just out picking noxious weed berries and must change some details. The alder seedlings that sprouted last year and I moved are waist high. 

My cedars I planted have put on good growth almost doubling in size since March. I do weedwhack around them. 

I have also had good luck moving our native ferns around and the shamrock stuff that I can't ever remember the name of, is going gangbusters. I'll move some more of it around--it makes good groundcover. Just 3 sprigs that I planted last year are now covering a 2x3 strip.


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## northmanlogging (Sep 3, 2012)

Thankee Olympic I'll have to find a copy of that and d douglas dent professional timber falling. Despite outward appearances I'm actually a very strong reader... Its my hand writing that has allot to be desired... Some of the techno mumbo jumbo is really just Latin and not to hard to figure out, its charts and diagrams that leave me drooling and blank eyed.


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## Metals406 (Sep 3, 2012)

slowp said:


> I was just out picking noxious weed berries and must change some details. The alder seedlings that sprouted last year and I moved are waist high.
> 
> My cedars I planted have put on good growth almost doubling in size since March. I do weedwhack around them.
> 
> I have also had good luck moving our native ferns around and the shamrock stuff that I can't ever remember the name of, is going gangbusters. I'll move some more of it around--it makes good groundcover. Just 3 sprigs that I planted last year are now covering a 2x3 strip.



That's Yellow Wood Sorrel. . . Janimay accidentally gave me some, in with one of those Cedars from the GTG. Three heart shaped leaves are the giveaway.

It's very hard to get rid of, and like you say, makes great ground cover. I've noted it sends off shooters just like strawberries will do.

It's pretty tasty to snack on (lemon bite to it) and real high in vitamin C. I guess it makes pretty dang good tea too. You can also put it in yer salad I guess.


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## Cedarkerf (Sep 3, 2012)

Back in the late 90s I was bucking fir into fire wood and sending Alder to the mill was a wierd twist having grown up here and fir being the crop tree. Anybody needs any Red cedars it grows like weeds in our yard as well as Alder


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## OlympicYJ (Sep 4, 2012)

northmanlogging said:


> Thankee Olympic I'll have to find a copy of that and d douglas dent professional timber falling. Despite outward appearances I'm actually a very strong reader... Its my hand writing that has allot to be desired... Some of the techno mumbo jumbo is really just Latin and not to hard to figure out, its charts and diagrams that leave me drooling and blank eyed.



Hey there have been and are some very smart men that don't write well. Einstein wasn't very good at calculus if I remember correctly lol Hey I have problems with latin but the charts and graphs aren't too bad. Guess I'm more of a visual person haha


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## northmanlogging (Sep 4, 2012)

No sweat, I tried reading the Machinery's Handbook at work cover to cover once...its in the neighborhood of 3000 pages and very dry with lots of graphs and diagrams, needless to say I was very bored that week


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## slowp (Sep 4, 2012)

Metals406 said:


> That's Yellow Wood Sorrel. . . Janimay accidentally gave me some, in with one of those Cedars from the GTG. Three heart shaped leaves are the giveaway.
> 
> It's very hard to get rid of, and like you say, makes great ground cover. I've noted it sends off shooters just like strawberries will do.
> 
> It's pretty tasty to snack on (lemon bite to it) and real high in vitamin C. I guess it makes pretty dang good tea too. You can also put it in yer salad I guess.




No, no heart shaped leaves. My stuff is a sorel, but has shamrocks for leaves. I read where the stems and roots are edible, but eating too much will upset the tummy. It likes to grow in the shade. I dug it up from a shady spot and transplanted it to the north side of the house. Now, I want more. It crowds out the weeds pretty good. 

I'll have to take some pictures of the native fauna that I've messed with.


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## madhatte (Sep 4, 2012)

The individual leaflets on the shamrocks are heart-shaped. It's genus _Oxalis_. It's tasty stuff but contains Oxalic acid which somehow messes up calcium uptake, so should be consumed sparingly. On the other hand, spinach contains Oxalic acid as well, so who knows.


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## Metals406 (Sep 4, 2012)

slowp said:


> No, no heart shaped leaves. My stuff is a sorel, but has shamrocks for leaves. I read where the stems and roots are edible, but eating too much will upset the tummy. It likes to grow in the shade. I dug it up from a shady spot and transplanted it to the north side of the house. Now, I want more. It crowds out the weeds pretty good.
> 
> I'll have to take some pictures of the native fauna that I've messed with.



Sounds like maybe Oxalis oregana (Redwood sorrel)?





madhatte said:


> The individual leaflets on the shamrocks are heart-shaped. It's genus _Oxalis_. It's tasty stuff but contains Oxalic acid which somehow messes up calcium uptake, so should be consumed sparingly. On the other hand, spinach contains Oxalic acid as well, so who knows.



Yup, it's neat stuff! There are others besides spinach that have Oxalic acid as well, and we eat a lot of it. From my research, it's a guess that it can mess with you, and you have to consume a lot of it too.

The stuff in the pots I got from Janimay is starting to produce yellow flowers, so I can only assume it's Oxalis suksdorfii (western yellow woodsorrel).


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## madhatte (Sep 4, 2012)

From this side of the Cascades? Most likely _O. oreganis_, I'd think.


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## slowp (Sep 4, 2012)

This is what I have, I think...

Google Image Result for http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Dg6L9l_50MY/T0pyzV66E5I/AAAAAAAAM_g/_YsJYz0n95g/s1600/wood-sorrel.jpg


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## badhabit (Sep 4, 2012)

As a fellow resident in the PNW I very much enjoy reading your guys' comments and stories regarding logging in the region.

My family and I are currently doing a bit of this ourselves right now and are sitting on about 20 cord or so of wood so far with no stop in the action. Just wish we could get some of it seasoned a bit quicker :msp_biggrin:

I must say my current favorite tree to get right now is Madrone. Love the dark red look of it and it burns really hot.

I'll post some pics up in a bit. Currently located in the Willamette Valley in Oregon.


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## GASoline71 (Sep 12, 2012)

Just knocked down 3 weeds yesterday... largest one was one of the biggest Alders I've seen in quite some time... 33" at the stump. After I murdered it, I cut the stump low and we counted the rings. I counted 88. Most I've ever counted in an Alder. All I had to do was fall 'em and buck 'em... my girlfriend's son and a couple of his buddies yarded out the rounds and split and stacked it. Glad there was some young 'uns there. 

I havested the weeds on my new chunk of property I now own. Looks like I might need a big 4X4 quad to help yard the stuff out when the young 'uns ain't around. Or buy a pellet stove! 

Gary


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## slowp (Sep 12, 2012)

A friend is having alder logged as I type. I can't get good pictures because there are too many non alder trees left standing in the way. 

There is a Fire TRK on the unit and a cat handy along with the fact that the unit is bordered by road and pasture so they got a waiver to be able to cut on our level 3 days. 

The alder market sounds quite good right now.


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## GASoline71 (Sep 12, 2012)

The small stand of Alder I have has a few really nice large, tall and straight spars. Would make excellent saw logs. But... They'll eventually succumb to the 044 for firewood. 

Gary


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## Metals406 (Sep 12, 2012)

That's an impressive size and age fer an Alder!


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## H 2 H (Sep 12, 2012)

I'm at 6 weed's this week (taking lunch break now) and 3 weed's this morning

Tough part is splitting them and hauling to the wood shed 

Nothing really old tho; I'll count the rings when I go back up there this afternoon


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## madhatte (Sep 12, 2012)

I've got a weekend alder job coming up at a friend's place. Gonna wait til the leaves fall to take some weight off of 'em. Heavy hangers, driveway and fence, the usual. I'll get firewood, beer, and dinner out of the deal.


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## GASoline71 (Sep 13, 2012)

madhatte said:


> I've got a weekend alder job coming up at a friend's place. Gonna wait til the leaves fall to take some weight off of 'em. Heavy hangers, driveway and fence, the usual. *I'll get firewood, beer, and dinner out of the deal*.



That sounds like a good deal to me! I got 3 more comin' out today... and then by the end of the weekend a few more. My woodshed will be full.

Gary


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## slowp (Sep 13, 2012)

madhatte said:


> I've got a weekend alder job coming up at a friend's place. Gonna wait til the leaves fall to take some weight off of 'em. Heavy hangers, driveway and fence, the usual. I'll get firewood, beer, and dinner out of the deal.



I'll probably get the same pay next year for putting trees back (planting). Actually, I got some free beef (not from a tire company) for putting trees in the ground this year. And, the trees are still alive!


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## slowp (Sep 13, 2012)

Here is a weed I transplanted last year. It is a year old. The Used Dog is good for scale. 





View attachment 252727


If I can get a few cedars next Spring, I shall slam my hoedad in this rocky dirt and interplant.


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## trees2 (Sep 13, 2012)

Spotted Owl said:


> More yet.
> 
> Coaching sucks at times.
> View attachment 250274
> ...



High stumps again, and where's the hard hats?


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## GASoline71 (Sep 13, 2012)

Now you're an OSHA inspector?

I've also never understood the fetish eaterners have with "high stumps".

Gary


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## trees2 (Sep 13, 2012)

GASoline71 said:


> Now you're an OSHA inspector?
> 
> I've also never understood the fetish eaterners have with "high stumps".
> 
> Gary



C'mon Gary, they grow with skidders going over them and they look like crap. And actualy, I just finished my osha 30 renew.


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## Metals406 (Sep 13, 2012)

GASoline71 said:


> Now you're an OSHA inspector?
> 
> I've also never understood the fetish eaterners have with "high stumps".
> 
> Gary



A lot of the low stumping is for looks, and to make it easier on equipment tires and operator kidneys. :msp_thumbsup:

Depends on the ground too -- Hammer and Bitz cut "normal" on steeps like everyone else.

Some of them claim higher grade by adding an extra foot or two to the butt log, but the mill is gonna slab that off anyway. Logs are cut from the small end. :biggrinbounce2:


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## slowp (Sep 13, 2012)

Foresters, skidder guys, and rigging rats can all have problems with high stumps. If too many are left, somebody has to come back and cut them so they meet the contract specs. And, to top that off, they may be scaled and charged for. 

Putting in roads to get the second growth out can be harder because of the tall, old growth stumps. Sometimes they have to use those pointy hunks of iron to break the stumps up. Logs get hung up on them, hooktenders have to cut them lower, etc. etc.

High stumps are a pain, unless they are in a good location and sound enough to use for guylines or tailholds.

I seldom see a problem with high stumps now. I have had problems with too low of stumps where they cut below the butt mark on and ITM (individual tree mark) unit. That is common when feller bunchers are used.


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## GASoline71 (Sep 13, 2012)

I completely agree that high stumps are a pain in the rear. They have their place, and you don't see as many as you use to in the woods. It's just always funny to me it's the first thing a lot of cats point out, when to most of us... it's just normal to see them. Right or wrong...

Gary


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## Gologit (Sep 13, 2012)

GASoline71 said:


> I completely agree that high stumps are a pain in the rear. They have their place, and you don't see as many as you use to in the woods. It's just always funny to me it's the first thing a lot of cats point out, when to most of us... it's just normal to see them. Right or wrong...
> 
> Gary



Exactly. We're _logging_, not _landscaping._ We cut our stumps as low as we can...it makes sense dollar wise.
But if, for whatever reason, there are a few high ones that's just the way it goes.

On steep ground, especially if it's above a waterway of any kind we'll often leave higher stumps. This is standard if we're laying them crossways on the hill or even if we're quartering the grade. When you're bucking, those high stumps will keep the runaways to a minimum by acting as a barrier. There can't be any logs in the waterway... big fines result from that
If you've ever seen a 40" dbh 42 foot long fir take off rolling down the hill it and watch it fetch up against a few high stumps instead of going clear to the bottom of the canyon and winding up in the river you'll be glad you left those stumps a little high.


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## slowp (Sep 13, 2012)

Ooooh, the straight up and down unit. Even high stumps would not keep the logs in place. I guess when all the logs are down in the creek, yarding may be simpler???

And it is an eerie feeling to be walking/crawling along the unit boundary--not inside it, nobody else around, and a log shifts sending more off down the hill. Actually, because I was in a safe location, it was kind of fun to see the mayhem and hear the noise.


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## Gologit (Sep 13, 2012)

slowp said:


> Ooooh, the straight up and down unit. Even high stumps would not keep the logs in place. I guess when all the logs are down in the creek, yarding may be simpler???
> 
> And it is an eerie feeling to be walking/crawling along the unit boundary--not inside it, nobody else around, and a log shifts sending more off down the hill. Actually, because I was in a safe location, it was kind of fun to see the mayhem and hear the noise.



Sssssshhhhhhh! NO logs went into the water. NONE. This is all hypothetical. Completely.

The helicopter was just hovering over the water to check for trout and those turns it picked up all came off of the unit. Everybody knows there's a heavier stand right along the boundaries, right? And no, I don't know why the hooker is soaking wet clear to his waist.

Darn Foresters anyway...always looking for trouble where there isn't any.:msp_wink:


Thought I'd throw a few logger excuses in here in case you miss your job.


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## slowp (Sep 13, 2012)

A friend and I had memories that were brought back by the smoke in the air here. She was like me, here we are having to put up with smoke and we're not getting paid for it. We meant slash burns. The fuels guy here was old school. We'd be lighting a unit with a creek in it...that was when you could cut the trees along some creeks and the world didn't end, and he'd yell to "Pour the fuel to it there cuz it is wet!" Or on normal actually very few were normal, burns he'd get on the radio about "Pour fuel to it and get that column built up!" 

We'd sometimes have "a little slop over" which meant the fire had jumped the canyon into another unit that we didn't plan to burn that night but then had to go over and "keep 'er lit!" That also meant dragging hose over and everything else. We'd get in after midnight and have to get up and be in by 6 or 7AM to do our timber jobs, but we made lots of OT and could sleep a little bit in our own beds. 

I said with all the smoke in the air now, he was probably thinking about it from whereever we go when we die, and yelling at the people to "Git that column built so it won't smoke us out." We liked to work for him.
Other places put the timber people in the smoke, but he didn't. He said he wanted us to want to help burn when he needed us.

He'd go around the office, after we'd come in for the day, and flick his Bic lighter, which meant we were going to do "an evening burn." Now, reread the slopover part.....


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## Cedarkerf (Sep 13, 2012)

Heres a pic of a fairley good size Alder.

A really smokey day with the smoke blowin over from the east side fires


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## slowp (Sep 14, 2012)

That's an impressive alder. I smell no smoke this morning. I hope it stays that way.


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## floyd (Sep 14, 2012)

Little tinge of smoke this AM. None yesterday.

Still burning in s slope of Adams.


Long ago I burned for Boise Cascade in NE Oregon. This was back in the 50 x500' piles, right on the road. We just did drivebys. Tip the drip torch, walk the pile get in the truck & torch the next one.

I loved the way Boise Cascade built roads over there...D9, 6"-, & a 3ft crown. After 10 yrs or so the crown settled but by then they had wood they went after.


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## GASoline71 (Sep 14, 2012)

All hazy over here on Whidbey Island... from the smoke in Eastern WA.

Brian... make sure not to leave any high stumps. They bite...

Gary


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## H 2 H (Sep 14, 2012)

Land owner pick out another stand of those weed's he want's out since next week weather will be the same as this last week's 

These weed's are 40 footers (+/-) nothing huge but darn good firewood for next year 

Best part is this land looks over Skagit Bay and looks right at Whidbey Island


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## slowp (Sep 14, 2012)

I take it back. There is smoke here. I got off my hill and did my walk, and the views are obscured. Maybe I'm used to it and not smelling it?


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## paccity (Sep 14, 2012)

the sisters fire is making some awful nice sunrise's.


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## H 2 H (Sep 15, 2012)

Yesterday I went from Stanwood to Deming on Highway 9

There was a brown haze all the way up to Deming when I got past Woolley it got worst for some reason


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## GASoline71 (Sep 15, 2012)

It gets worse past Woolley from all the meth labs...

Gary


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## H 2 H (Sep 15, 2012)

GASoline71 said:


> It gets worse past Woolley from all the meth labs...
> 
> Gary




It sure seemed that way 

From the Blue Mountain Grill the hill (Mt Baker) sure looked weird; that's my pit stop (lunch) on my way up there each week


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