# Odd sales call



## danieltree (Dec 30, 2009)

Its been glacier slow for me since Thanksgiving which is the usual this time of year. Well yesterday I get some calls and am fairly excited, Go to one job and get it, Great. Then I go to the next at the designated time to meet with the customer about a backyard pine that needs to be removed for an addition. I knock on the door and am told that the customer went on an errand and will be back in a few minutes. So I look at the tree and write up the proposal and wait on the customer. I sell better face to face and had nothing better to do so no worries. While I am waiting this guy pulls up in a really nice Mercedes So I think great Homeowner is here. That was not the case, It was another tree company. The guy gets out and asks who I am , I tell him and we make small talk. The usual you know , how much work, Insurance prices all that. When the customer arrives we both approach and introduce ourselves. Well I am completely thrown off here didn't really know how to handle the situation so I just hand over my proposal and ask the customer for her Info so I can get my Insurance info to her. I explain how I will remove the tree and let her know about how long it will take. The other guy is standing there talking shop with me while I am trying to focus on the customer I am able to partly ignore him but not completely and he would interrupt the customer sometimes with talk of other jobs. So I feel that I could do all I could do and decided it was time to leave, I thank the customer for considering me and shake the other guys hand then he follows me to my truck to offer up his equipment if I come across any jobs that he might be needed on. I say that if there is something that comes up I would give him a call and again say goodbye. I leave and he walks back over to the customer and begins talking. opinions on how to handle this if it happens again, I probably will not get the job because the other guy saw my price and It is beatable. I figure my price is my price and try to sell myself as being worth that.​


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## treemandan (Dec 30, 2009)

When I am walking around the yard with a new client they ask" WHere is your clipboard, aren't you going to write any of this down?"

I usually give a verbal rough estimate while with them then go back to the office and "wait it out" so to speak.


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## lxt (Dec 30, 2009)

kinda the same way I approach it to Dan, Im not gonna take my time to write it down, explain it, etc.. if they are unrealistic in the cost of it!

Funny.....my competitors dont create small talk or drive mercedes!



LXT................


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## treemandan (Dec 30, 2009)

I think the guy who showed up second ( no matter what) should have driven down to get a cup a coffee and waited for his turn... after politly smiling and waving that is. I would have. Some of the guys around here are nice and we chat but no Benzes. The guy sounds a little like an ass for what he did.


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## danieltree (Dec 30, 2009)

treemandan said:


> I think the guy who showed up second ( no matter what) should have driven down to get a cup a coffee and waited for his turn... after politly smiling and waving that is. I would have. Some of the guys around here are nice and we chat but no Benzes. The guy sounds a little like an ass for what he did.


Thanks Dan, that is exactly how I felt. I got there first so I get first crack at the customer. The reason I spend time with a customer is to establish some kind of relationship with them and establish a sense of well being, they can not get that from a piece of paper.​


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## Wishie22 (Dec 30, 2009)

Just demand your privacy.

Politely turned to the other tree salesman "I need to speak with the "customers name" for couple of minutes. Can we continue our conversation after, so I don't hold up the customer from their family." If he or you wanted to continue small talk you could invited one another out for a beer, brunch, or something after.

At that point you have established that you want to give the customer your full attention, values, and the task at hand. 

Business is business.


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## mckeetree (Dec 30, 2009)

These dumb ass Mexicans around here are the worlds worst to show up second and try to talk to the customer and the guy that got there first at the same time. You don't want to say something too bad to them right in front of the client and make yourself look bad. I told some of them last summer if they drive up to a job and I am already there, don't get out or I am going to stomp their ass into the asphalt.


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## capetrees (Dec 30, 2009)

I'd actually be surprised if the owner takes the second guys price. If I were the homeowner, the Mercedes would throw me off. What's next, a suit? I'd rather talk to the guy that will be in the tree as opposed to the gigilo that's doing it for a hobby. Hope you get the job or at least a second chance to beat his price considering he knew yours prior to giving his price.


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## Rftreeman (Dec 30, 2009)

I'd call him and ask out over for a beer then kick his ass.........

how did he see your price???


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## treemandan (Dec 30, 2009)

capetrees said:


> I'd actually be surprised if the owner takes the second guys price. If I were the homeowner, the Mercedes would throw me off. What's next, a suit? I'd rather talk to the guy that will be in the tree as opposed to the gigilo that's doing it for a hobby. Hope you get the job or at least a second chance to beat his price considering he knew yours prior to giving his price.



In some of the ritzy-er neighborhoods the people do not want to talk to the guy who does the work. No sir.


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## danieltree (Dec 30, 2009)

He looked at the proposal as the customer was reading it. And as far as ritzy goes this was not, but even when I do a job for a wealthier client they still usually have someone there to hire the contractor.​


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## treemandan (Dec 30, 2009)

How old was the guy? He wasn't no treeworking man was he?


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## danieltree (Dec 30, 2009)

He was in his mid 30s said he owned the business and did his own climbing. It was just an odd situation, In the past I would have probably showed my ass but now days I have a live and let live attitude. the job was small and is not going to be the end of the world if I do not get it. It sorta showed me how bad things are right now, I am small as far as tree services go and this guy has tons of equipment so I would say he is a larger company, but to just stand there and cock block like that was just weird.​


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## NCTREE (Dec 30, 2009)

it's a dog eat dog world

I would of ask the guy to go back to his car untill i was finished, if not I would ask the customer if i could come back later. Sometimes it's best to be the last guy there when comparing apples to apples.


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## John464 (Dec 30, 2009)

NCTREE said:


> I would of asked the guy to go back to his car until i was finished



I wait my turn, I usually drive around the block so the competitor doesnt see me. They will usually call back and ask what my price was and try to beat it if they know i was there. I think it was bad move on your part by not telling him that you will be a few minutes with her and then you can have her shortly. It was definitely rude of the other guy to not wait his turn. 

I would not hand in my proposal while the other guy is there either. Id fax it over and email later and then do a follow up within 24hrs of the bid.

and yes, real treeman can drive a benz on the weekend, CLS55 AMG, but I wouldnt ever take that or my other cars to an estimate. just show up in a regular pickup truck


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## danieltree (Dec 30, 2009)

I should have left. I was thrown off by the whole thing but tried to be polite to both him and the customer. I feared what would happen if I asked him to leave and what that would have looked like.​


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## danieltree (Dec 30, 2009)

And around here the competition usually beats your price without even seeing it, the customer tells them in hopes that they will beat it.​


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## ozarktreeman (Dec 30, 2009)

Not to similar but same animal,pulled up to potential clients house seen this other guy was there.pulled out gave em, a call let em know I was not late just going to take a ride for 30 min.and be back.Turns out the ass was bad mouthin me and the people did not go for that crap.Got the job no biggy though but a job.
You handled pretty smoothly,better than most.Like you said your earlier days would have been Different:deadhorse:.


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## Sunrise Guy (Dec 31, 2009)

I would have been friendly to the guy and been upfront as to what was going to happen when the ho pulled up: "OK, I was here first, so when the ho gets back, I want you to go back to your car and give me ten minutes alone with this guy/gal." If he balked, I would just get in my truck, phone up the ho to let him/her know the situation, and then set up another time to do the bid.


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## BRCCArborist (Dec 31, 2009)

Here's another question to ask: If you were there at the designated time that you AND the customer set, why were they out running an errand? And why was another contractor there? Maybe he just showed up there and maybe not. Seems like the client was a bit rude as well by being gone at the time, and possibly scheduling another meeting at the same time. I tend to want to stay away from customers like that.


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## NCTREE (Dec 31, 2009)

BRCCArborist said:


> Here's another question to ask: If you were there at the designated time that you AND the customer set, why were they out running an errand? And why was another contractor there? Maybe he just showed up there and maybe not. Seems like the client was a bit rude as well by being gone at the time, and possibly scheduling another meeting at the same time. I tend to want to stay away from customers like that.



:agree2: it's seems the customer called and told everyone to show up at the same time, like your supposed to get there take a number and wait your turn. "Next Please!" that is so annoying, you can bet that someone like that doesn't care about customer service and doing a good job. It's all about the price. I'll walk away from jobs like that anymore. Its like a pack of hungry dogs begging for a piece of meat.


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## danieltree (Dec 31, 2009)

The time to meet was sort of open after 10 no later than 11, so that may have been the case. She said she only called 3 companies so I am sure price was something they were concerned about but I did not get the feeling that that was the only concern. The customer that called me around 8 months ago who had called 10 other companies they were price shopping. I have seen other companies at job bids but we give each other space nod our heads at one another and go about our own business. The other guy was very friendly in the way the snake in Geneses was friendly . I think that him doing what he did was some devious attempt to get the job . I can sympathize, with the Mercedes note to pay and all I would probably be a little more aggressive as well.​


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## southernoutdoor (Dec 31, 2009)

Heres what you do; call him up for a little chat out in the sticks, hide and wait on him in a ski mask and a baseball bat, well you know the rest, good luck, take some pics


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## NCTREE (Dec 31, 2009)

You never know it could of been an inside job, she might of known mercedes. Maybe he showed up to see how you handle it and to get an idea on how you bid jobs. I've had one or two like that that I swear were just set ups.


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## Norwayclimber (Dec 31, 2009)

I had the same thing happen to me 5 years ago. Ended up with me not giving a price and letting the other guy have the job as it was just a hedge that needed cutting. Now that other guy gives me all his difficult trees 

If it had happened today, i'd probably talk with the other guy before the homeowner came and we would decide that one of us would price it high, and the other extremly high. That way one of us would most likely end up with a well paid job and the other with a treeguy that ows you a favour. A win/win situation!


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## arbor pro (Dec 31, 2009)

It seams that, lately, I keep showing up to bid jobs at the same time as one of our other tree services - strange how it's always him and not the others. Anyhow, I always give him his space and he gives me mine. We're cordial and sometimes make small talk but we're professional towards each other and towards the client in that we don't try to 'double' up on the conversation. To me, that's unprofessional and I would be upset at both the customer and other gentleman for trying to make this other than a one-on-one meeting.

I know I'm not the lowest price in the area so, when I see other tree services showing up that I know from experience are going to offer a lower price to the client, I usually get in and out of there pretty quickly. In this case, I probably would have asked straight out what the customer was looking for - best price or best service. Body language says a lot. If I get bad vibes, I'm outa there. If the client seems receptive to my sales pitch, I'll stick it out and try to persuade them my direction with a brochure, history of my experience, etc.

I'm lucky that, in my area, I pretty much know the other tree services and what their reputations are. If I'm bidding against someone who I don't think I have a good chance of beating, I'll just slip out quickly and let it go at that. If I think the other guy is a hack who can't handle the job the way the customer wants it done, I'll tactfully explain why I can do it better.

Tough situation to know how to handle correctly. Tact and professionalism, in any situation, is usually the best way to proceed. No need to storm off or blow up at the customer or the other tree guy. I think you handled it ok but, like others said, I would not have handed an open bid form to the client before leaving. I would have either mailed it to her or told her I would call or stop back later when the other guy was gone. You just set him up to lowball you if he's that kind of guy and if the customer is that kind of customer who would ask him to do so.


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## teamtree (Dec 31, 2009)

I have had a few situations like that....I usually let the other guy go first or I look at the job and mail them an estimate.

I never ask for the other guys price and then try to beat it.


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## danieltree (Jan 5, 2010)

Just got off of phone with the customer. I got the job. She said my price was higher but she liked how courteous I was and would like to have me do the work. As far as the other guy goes she told me that after I left he tried to work out a deal to remove another tree on the neighbors property and only offered a 25.00 dollar discount. So I guess the other guy was one of the good guys and didn't do any throat cutting or trash talking. Figured I would let you know how it turned out. Looks like the starving time is coming to an end .​


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## jefflovstrom (Jan 5, 2010)

Good deal dude,


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## NCTREE (Jan 5, 2010)




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## ropensaddle (Jan 5, 2010)

I hate those timed bids I have been on them with five services there and three circling the block like buzzards. I once told a lady my estimates are free but waiting to give an estimate is one hundred per hour 2 hour minimum. She looked at me odd then I told her I will likely be the higher priced here so wasting time needs covered.We have too many tree services


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## ropensaddle (Jan 5, 2010)

danieltree said:


> Its been glacier slow for me since Thanksgiving which is the usual this time of year. Well yesterday I get some calls and am fairly excited, Go to one job and get it, Great. Then I go to the next at the designated time to meet with the customer about a backyard pine that needs to be removed for an addition. I knock on the door and am told that the customer went on an errand and will be back in a few minutes. So I look at the tree and write up the proposal and wait on the customer. I sell better face to face and had nothing better to do so no worries. While I am waiting this guy pulls up in a really nice Mercedes So I think great Homeowner is here. That was not the case, It was another tree company. The guy gets out and asks who I am , I tell him and we make small talk. The usual you know , how much work, Insurance prices all that. When the customer arrives we both approach and introduce ourselves. Well I am completely thrown off here didn't really know how to handle the situation so I just hand over my proposal and ask the customer for her Info so I can get my Insurance info to her. I explain how I will remove the tree and let her know about how long it will take. The other guy is standing there talking shop with me while I am trying to focus on the customer I am able to partly ignore him but not completely and he would interrupt the customer sometimes with talk of other jobs. So I feel that I could do all I could do and decided it was time to leave, I thank the customer for considering me and shake the other guys hand then he follows me to my truck to offer up his equipment if I come across any jobs that he might be needed on. I say that if there is something that comes up I would give him a call and again say goodbye. I leave and he walks back over to the customer and begins talking. opinions on how to handle this if it happens again, I probably will not get the job because the other guy saw my price and It is beatable. I figure my price is my price and try to sell myself as being worth that.​



nova fer ya


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## danieltree (Jan 6, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> nova fer ya



Thank you.​


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## treeslayer (Jan 6, 2010)

think about this.
you can buy a clean, decent Benz for $10,000. A big 1 ton 4WD pickup with all the bells and whistles is $50,000+

I sell work right now out of a older Malibu, and sell AFFORDABLE work. in this economy, in middle class 'hoods that works very well.

In upper class McMansion-ville, image matters, unless we luck out and get a cheapskate.

I always tell the HO let me bid last, and never ever leave written estimates. I make em beg for one, and negotiate my pricing anyway, "what do think is fair?"
and then offer them options to get the price in their ballpark. works very well too. I might not get rich, but I'm working.
In good weather and a good economy, NO DEALS though.


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## treemandan (Jan 6, 2010)

treeslayer said:


> think about this.
> you can buy a clean, decent Benz for $10,000. A big 1 ton 4WD pickup with all the bells and whistles is $50,000+
> 
> I sell work right now out of a older Malibu, and sell AFFORDABLE work. in this economy, in middle class 'hoods that works very well.
> ...



Very true.


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## danieltree (Jan 6, 2010)

There are 36 tree services listed in our local directory. That is not counting door knockers . Begging for an estimate is not something the customer has to do here. We had a major storm here a few years back(Katrina) and it turned the industry on its ear. It is slowly getting back to normal. I heard about one tree guy this last week that blew his head off, they say it was over being so behind on bills, I am sure that was not all there was to it but I bet it played a role in it. I agree with you on the benz. I drive a half ton white chevy to do bid work in. Some customers do hire the vehicle over the man.​


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## treeslayer (Jan 6, 2010)

danieltree said:


> There are 36 tree services listed in our local directory. That is not counting door knockers . Begging for an estimate is not something the customer has to do here. We had a major storm here a few years back(Katrina) and it turned the industry on its ear. It is slowly getting back to normal. I heard about one tree guy this last week that blew his head off, they say it was over being so behind on bills, I am sure that was not all there was to it but I bet it played a role in it. I agree with you on the benz. I drive a half ton white chevy to do bid work in. Some customers do hire the vehicle over the man.​



Isabel filled the Wmsbg area with tree companies, one major reason why I travel. The nature of a free economy is the very demise of most who try to be in business, I have seen a LOT of guys go under, overextending in good times, and starving in slow times. In this economy? you can't eat a 2nd bobcat or any other new equipment. sucks about the suicide.

Oh yeah, and I meant beg ME for a written estimate.  I get a call, I'm calling the same day, there the next if not sooner. I bid EVERY job like I ain't got one. written estimates just lock prices down too much for me.

In storm work, its fun to collect em, they are everywhere. blowing down the street, stuck all over houses, cars, mailboxes, nailed to trees, etc.......


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## gwiley (Jan 6, 2010)

Norwayclimber said:


> I had the same thing happen to me 5 years ago. Ended up with me not giving a price and letting the other guy have the job as it was just a hedge that needed cutting. Now that other guy gives me all his difficult trees
> 
> If it had happened today, i'd probably talk with the other guy before the homeowner came and we would decide that one of us would price it high, and the other extremly high. That way one of us would most likely end up with a well paid job and the other with a treeguy that ows you a favour. A win/win situation!



Hmmm....sounds lite that is on the darker side of ethical, in some places it is illegal. I wouldn't appreciate a contractor doing that to me - I'd encourage you to think about that idea a while before doing it.


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## arbor pro (Jan 6, 2010)

gwiley said:


> Hmmm....sounds lite that is on the darker side of ethical, in some places it is illegal. I wouldn't appreciate a contractor doing that to me - I'd encourage you to think about that idea a while before doing it.



Called price fixing. Federal offense. The ethical or unethical debate aside, it's illegal and, in today's poor economy, taking advantage of 'Joe Homeowner' is not going to be well-received by any jury if you get caught and prosecuted. I sure wouldn't be suggesting on a public forum that that's how I'd conduct my business!


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## gwiley (Jan 6, 2010)

arbor pro said:


> Called price fixing. Federal offense. The ethical or unethical debate aside, it's illegal and, in today's poor economy, taking advantage of 'Joe Homeowner' is not going to be well-received by any jury if you get caught and prosecuted. I sure wouldn't be suggesting on a public forum that that's how I'd conduct my business!



I was trying to be diplomatic, you articulated the issue more clearly.


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## arbor pro (Jan 6, 2010)

gwiley said:


> I was trying to be diplomatic, you articulated the issue more clearly.



diplomacy? what's that? I guess I've always said it like it is even if it ruffles a few feathers.


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## Norwayclimber (Jan 6, 2010)

arbor pro said:


> diplomacy? what's that? I guess I've always said it like it is even if it ruffles a few feathers.



I know it is, in best cases, a bit to the side.

My point was, go ahead and be an example towards other treemen that your work is worth a fair pay. Better to raise the awareness of pricing right, than to have a cutthroat competition where nobody wins. Not even the customer in long terms.


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## Norwayclimber (Jan 6, 2010)

arbor pro said:


> diplomacy? what's that? I guess I've always said it like it is even if it ruffles a few feathers.



Thats the best way to say it!


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## ropensaddle (Jan 6, 2010)

Norwayclimber said:


> Thats the best way to say it!



The problem is; saying it like it is is only relevent to the one who is saying it lol


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## mckeetree (Jan 6, 2010)

treeslayer said:


> I sell work right now out of a older Malibu



Alright. Hmmmmmm. Well, I guess this is where I need to keep my mouth shut.


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## tree MDS (Jan 6, 2010)

mckeetree said:


> Alright. Hmmmmmm. Well, I guess this is where I need to keep my mouth shut.



Why's that??


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## mckeetree (Jan 6, 2010)

tree MDS said:


> Why's that??



You know why.


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## tree MDS (Jan 6, 2010)

mckeetree said:


> You know why.



Yeah, I know why. 

I would be laughed out of town if I tried that scene up here. 

Of course I'm picturing a late 70's style malibu... the newer ones wouldn't be so bad necessarily.


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## Wishie22 (Jan 6, 2010)

*Thought about this subject when*

I was following behind an older El Camino that drew me into a quick daydream, the way it the suspension hovered that vessel down the street and all.


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## mckeetree (Jan 6, 2010)

tree MDS said:


> Yeah, I know why.
> 
> I would be laughed out of town if I tried that scene up here.




Used to be a guy in Dallas that drove around giving estimates in an old Oldsmobile Vista Cruiser. He was a little short guy that wore overalls and this big cowboy hat all the time. We had some good laughs at that cat.


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## treesurgeon (Jan 7, 2010)

couple weeks ago i showed up to an estimate with another tree company there. homeowner asked who i was and who sent me. like he had no clue i was coming. i told him who i was and that he told me to be there before 5, because he leaves for work then. 
i just hung out in my truck until the other guy was done.
another thing, over the years of being in business, first appearance means everything. i drive trucks to estimates only, it does make a difference and the client will even let you know sometimes.


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## gwiley (Jan 7, 2010)

*Drive a truck to offer pro-bono jobs*

While I don't make a living at tree work, I use what skills I have to help folks that I know (or who are recommended by friends) who don't have the money for tree work.

The funny thing is that I find folks will turn down free tree work if I show up in my Corolla but seem to respond more warmly when I am in my beat up old F350.

I was talking to one lady at my daughter's horse vaulting practice, she was all excited about having some trees that were down removed then she noticed my little corolla nearby and went a bit cold to the idea.


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## treeslayer (Jan 7, 2010)

mckeetree said:


> Alright. Hmmmmmm. Well, I guess this is where I need to keep my mouth shut.



Why start now?


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## mckeetree (Jan 7, 2010)

gwiley said:


> then she noticed my little corolla nearby and went a bit cold to the idea.



Yeah, they used to ice over about the guy's vista cruiser station wagon too.


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## treeslayer (Jan 7, 2010)

It definitely hurts sometimes. but with all these smaller jobs, mostly pruning, it seems to actually help my "low overhead" spiel. We're not driving a beat up hooptie, at least its clean. but we are getting good gas mileage. we drive 100+ miles a day, easily and that adds up when we're lowballing to stay busy. add that to the truck fuel I buy for the haulers.....

but when bidding a big job, with multiple removals, I'm not surprised when they go with someone else. 
Come warm weather, this won't work. gotta buy a truck.


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## danieltree (Jan 7, 2010)

There was a crew of guys here a couple of years ago that drove an old LTD. They had a log dolly strapped to the roof and a pole saw sticking out the window.​


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## arbor pro (Jan 7, 2010)

danieltree said:


> There was a crew of guys here a couple of years ago that drove an old LTD. They had a log dolly strapped to the roof and a pole saw sticking out the window.​



My first year in business was during my senior year of college. I drove my zx7 ninja motorcycle to bid jobs - cheaper on gas and better looking, I thought, than my pontiac grand am. The bike was not too warmly accepted by customers - I could see it in their faces when I pulled up, so I sold the bike and got a pickup. Sad day for me - good day for the business...


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