# Stihl 056 AV super any good for use with an Alkaskan Sawmill?



## demographic (Feb 23, 2009)

I have a mate who has a 056 AV super and wants to buy an Alaskan Sawmill to go with it.
If its any good whats the biggest kind of size mill that it will run and what length bar should be buy for it? Currently its got a 25 inch bar (as far as I can work out but then again I'm new to all this stuff) fitted.

He intends to mill sycamore and ash but may want to do other woods if that makes much difference.
He could pay someone to haul the timber out of where it is, and mill it which might well give better results but that involves paying someone else to do something that he thinks he could have a go at instead.
Also, tell me about ripping chains, whats good and whats not.
Regards Scott.


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## computeruser (Feb 23, 2009)

Yes, that saw would work. I'd consider a 28" bar a practical maximum for tolerable performance. Anything longer and it will be slow, slow, slow going...


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## steve fryar (Feb 23, 2009)

G'day.That saw goes around 80 odd cc so it should be fine for milling.36" bar for softwoods and maybe 30" for hardwoods.A ripping chain will cut quicker but leave a rougher finish.It's up to your mate.


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## BobL (Feb 23, 2009)

steve fryar said:


> G'day.That saw goes around 80 odd cc so it should be fine for milling.36" bar for softwoods and maybe 30" for hardwoods.A ripping chain will cut quicker but leave a rougher finish.It's up to your mate.



90cc I believe, should handle a 36" bar even in most north american hardwoods. According to some of the members in the chainsaw forum it runs close to the performance of an 066 but is heavier.


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## HPLP (Feb 23, 2009)

My understanding is that a ripping chain simply has a cutter filed to 5-10 degrees instead of 30.

There are other ones with different profiles too and different cutter arrangements like the granberg one.

H


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## BlueRider (Feb 23, 2009)

That saw will do any thing an 066 will do, The 056 magnum is 94cc with the same size bore as the 066 big bore kit. In comparison I milled for years with an 051 which is 89cc. I ran a 42" bar which will net a 36" board when bolted in a granberg mill. It is a bit slow in some of the harder woods but investing in a long bar for that saw is not throwing money down the drain. A bar for that saw would fit some of the other big Stihl saws if you ever decided you wanted a larger saw. hardwoods logs 18"-24"diameter will be the comfort zone for an 056. 

32" bar in a csm = 26" board 
42" bar in a csm = 36" board


Sorry for the imperial units and making you do the math.


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## Brmorgan (Feb 24, 2009)

BlueRider said:


> That saw will do any thing an 066 will do, The 056 magnum is 94cc with the same size bore as the 066 big bore kit. In comparison I milled for years with an 051 which is 89cc. I ran a 42" bar which will net a 36" board when bolted in a granberg mill. It is a bit slow in some of the harder woods but investing in a long bar for that saw is not throwing money down the drain. *A bar for that saw would fit some of the other big Stihl saws if you ever decided you wanted a larger saw.* hardwoods logs 18"-24"diameter will be the comfort zone for an 056.
> 
> 32" bar in a csm = 26" board
> 42" bar in a csm = 36" board
> ...



I may be wrong on this, but I believe the 056 takes a standard 12mm Stihl bar mount, whereas the 051/070/075/076/088/090 take the larger 14mm mount. True it would still fit an 066/660 though.


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## demographic (Feb 25, 2009)

Brmorgan said:


> I may be wrong on this, but I believe the 056 takes a standard 12mm Stihl bar mount, whereas the 051/070/075/076/088/090 take the larger 14mm mount. True it would still fit an 066/660 though.



I do know that the bar of his 056 fits onto my 038 anyway cos when I first got my 038 I tried it out with his bar as my chain was well past its best and my bar also needed dressing.
Not that I know what size the bar mount is on my 038 either.

So anyway, the general consensus seems to be that that saw will be fine for milling the odd tree that comes his way and that a 36" mill will be ok on it?
I take it that those mills are adjustable for shorter chainsaw bars anyway?
Regards Scott.


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## BobL (Feb 25, 2009)

demographic said:


> I take it that those mills are adjustable for shorter chainsaw bars anyway?
> Regards Scott.



Yep.


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## harrygrey382 (Mar 5, 2009)

It'll get the job done - one way or another... Some facts:
056 Super is 87cc
056 Magnum is 94cc
051 has a LOT more torque than an 056 super - it has the same max torque as an 066, and I'm guessing more than an 056M too...
Having said that, I think an 056AVS will mill fine, maybe sticking to 30" max in hardwoods.
Here's me with an 056AV (with AVS top cover  ) on my 30" Alaskan, it's dead oak, hard stuff. It's now driven by an 076 with 36" and boy is it a different machine!


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## demographic (Mar 5, 2009)

Right, I'll pass on the news to him and see how he gets on.


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## BobL (Mar 5, 2009)

harrygrey382 said:


>



Harry, I don't wish to sound too critical but your milling stance looks very uncomfortable and the grimace on your face suggests way more effort than is necessary - back hunched over, arms too far apart, and it looks like you have to reach right across the saw to reach the trigger? are you pulling the saw through the log? I think part of your problem is your mill has no handles so it looks like you have to hang onto the vertical uprights to control the mill. 

Look at this stance. Log up off the ground, standing upright, arms close together and straight, more leaning on the mill than pushing, everything set up for minimal effort. When the chain is sharp and the log is on a slope the saw goes down by itself.





I'm probably just envious that being a young bloke you have energy to burn, but I figure the slabs are heavy enough as it is without wearing myself out using the mill.

Also, with your face right over the bar like that i'd be wearing some eye protection. The first time I used my big mill a nut came off the mill and the chain flung it right into my faceguard.

Another thing I don't see is wedges.

And nice looking wood BTW


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## Brmorgan (Mar 6, 2009)

I'm going to throw a wrench in the gears here... How 'bout an 056 Super vs. a Husky 288XP? Exactly the same displacement, piston bore, and stroke... 056 would be slightly heavier I believe, but otherwise? Just wondering, I just picked up a 288 from the pawnshop today, couldn't pass it up even being unemployed. Now trying to decide what other saws to potentially sacrifice for it...


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## harrygrey382 (Mar 6, 2009)

BobL said:


> Harry, I don't wish to sound too critical but your milling stance looks very uncomfortable and the grimace on your face suggests way more effort than is necessary - back hunched over, arms too far apart, and it looks like you have to reach right across the saw to reach the trigger? are you pulling the saw through the log? I think part of your problem is your mill has no handles so it looks like you have to hang onto the vertical uprights to control the mill.
> 
> Look at this stance. Log up off the ground, standing upright, arms close together and straight, more leaning on the mill than pushing, everything set up for minimal effort. When the chain is sharp and the log is on a slope the saw goes down by itself.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the comments bob, BUT that was my first go at milling quite a while ago - I've moved on since... Such as, a centrel handle, a remote throttle on the 076. I was pulling because I found that stance more comfortable - but I've been putting most things up on things if I can now. And the grimace - that's just my concentrating face! It didn't need much energy to push. Oh yeah use wedges now too


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## BobL (Mar 6, 2009)

harrygrey382 said:


> Thanks for the comments bob, BUT that was my first go at milling quite a while ago - I've moved on since...



Say no more


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## demographic (Mar 6, 2009)

BobL said:


>



I notice that in this picture the mill you are using doesn't look like the Alaskan Sawmill, the adjusters look neat and it doesn't look like too hard to build, is there any chance of posting a closer picture of the mill?
Did you make it yourself? If its one you have made yourself could you post up details of its basics and any pitfalls to watch out for?
Any dimensions?
And the oiler at the end of it, is that one you made up or is it shop bought?

Is it (in your opinion) better than the Alaskan Sawmill MKIII that I keep seeing adverts for?

I know theres a few questions in there but that picture has got me interested now, I used to work as a welder in amongst other things and the bloke who wants the mill has a lathe so basic fabrication isn't too much of a problem for us as long as its worth doing.


Regards Scott.


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## BobL (Mar 6, 2009)

demographic said:


> I notice that in this picture the mill you are using doesn't look like the Alaskan Sawmill


A friend of mine calls it a "tropical alaskan" ie an "alaskan with all the fruit"
The whole thing is home made by me except for the ally welding done by my BIL
The design elements were most copied from ideas I have run across on this forum.
Follow the links in my sig file (BIL mill) for more grimy details. If you do also do a search for "BIL mill" you will see 60 threads mostly related to all the little and big adventures it has had over the last 2 years.
In January I started to adapt the mill to use an 880 powerhead. The link for that is here.



> Is it (in your opinion) better than the Alaskan Sawmill MKIII that I keep seeing adverts for?


Yep, I haven't used a lot of commercial mills but it's better than any of the others I have tried. 



> I know theres a few questions in there but that picture has got me interested now, I used to work as a welder in amongst other things and the bloke who wants the mill has a lathe so basic fabrication isn't too much of a problem for us as long as its worth doing.


Oh it's definitely worth doing, every time I go and use my friends Granberg Mill and then I come back to mine it feels so much easier and better to use ........

There is very little lathe work in it, it was mostly made using a drop and band saw, drill press, belt sander and ally welder. The only things that were turned were the cam locks, the brass sleeves on the outboard lock for the tube handle, and the extended length bar bolts.

I'm happy to answer specific questions.


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## demographic (Mar 6, 2009)

BobL said:


> A friend of mine calls it a "tropical alaskan" ie an "alaskan with all the fruit"
> The whole thing is home made by me except for the ally welding done by my BIL
> The design elements were most copied from ideas I have run across on this forum.
> Follow the links in my sig file (BIL mill) for more grimy details. If you do also do a search for "BIL mill" you will see 60 threads mostly related to all the little and big adventures it has had over the last 2 years.
> ...



Excellent, I will be looking through those threads and maybe pestering you with questions as and when they crop up.

Thanks, Scott.


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## Rockfarmer (Mar 6, 2009)

BobL said:


> are you pulling the saw through the log?
> 
> Look at this stance. Log up off the ground, standing upright, arms close together and straight, more leaning on the mill than pushing, everything set up for minimal effort. When the chain is sharp and the log is on a slope the saw goes down by itself.
> 
> ...



agreed, isnt it easier to push with bodyweight than pull?


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## demographic (Mar 6, 2009)

Another thing I was meaning to ask...

Does anyone set the alsakan samills so they take an angled cut through the trunks?
So theres a bark edge all the way around?
What do they use to guide the saw if they do as the "ladder guide" part would have to have "Rungs" missing.

Or cut into the outside of a bend in the tree which would give the same effect?

If so is there any pics showing how they do it?


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## BobL (Mar 6, 2009)

Rockfarmer said:


> agreed, isnt it easier to push with bodyweight than pull?



That's right - I'm not pulling or pushing, I just lean on the saw.


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## BobL (Mar 6, 2009)

demographic said:


> Does anyone set the alsakan samills so they take an angled cut through the trunks?


This is easy in principle - just use a longer bar. There are positives and negatives. This has been discussed several times on this forum such as here.

Basically when the blade is angled significantly the cutters make more of a shaving than a chip, this is easier on the cutter and saw, but the length of the cut gets longer so there is no overall advantage. 

If the angle is 90º ie cut completely parallel to the log then it can make noodles but you will be limited to the length of the bar a 8ft length log - there are not many saws around that will pull an 8 ft bar not to mention physically handling a mill with an 8 ft bar! 



> So theres a bark edge all the way around?
> What do they use to guide the saw if they do as the "ladder guide" part would have to have "Rungs" missing.
> Or cut into the outside of a bend in the tree which would give the same effect?
> If so is there any pics showing how they do it?



I have done this on a 1ft long log using my baby-milling-rig (see sig for link to that mill) which can hold a small log in any orientation while it is being cut. I also did it once using the BIL mill (with 42" bar) I put the 3 ft long log on the ground, placed two saw horses either side of and parallel to the log and used 2, 4 x 2" sitting on top of the saw horses as milling rails. It was a PITA getting the mill onto the rails but once I had done that it worked OK - lotsa noodles. Unfortunately the day I did this I did not have a camera with me. It did not cut as fast as I hoped it would, noodle clearance is an issue and I was not using skip chain. The other thing is holding such a short log in place while it is being cut is also not that easy, especially when cutting the lower half of the log. If I did this on a regular basis I would make a dedicated clamping device. I might do this again some time just so you can see all the noodles!


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## demographic (Mar 7, 2009)

BobL said:


> This is easy in principle - just use a longer bar. There are positives and negatives. This has been discussed several times on this forum such as here.
> 
> Basically when the blade is angled significantly the cutters make more of a shaving than a chip, this is easier on the cutter and saw, but the length of the cut gets longer so there is no overall advantage.
> 
> If the angle is 90º ie cut completely parallel to the log then it can make noodles but you will be limited to the length of the bar a 8ft length log - there are not many saws around that will pull an 8 ft bar not to mention physically handling a mill with an 8 ft bar!



I don't think I explained that properly, I was meaning to cut through the log to give a bark edge all the was around, like the bit you answered below.
The section I was thinking about getting would be an elipse of wood, sutable for the back of a bench or something like it.
I understand that it will lose quite a bit of usable timber but if you get the wood for free it might be something nice to do.






BobL said:


> I have done this on a 1ft long log using my baby-milling-rig (see sig for link to that mill) which can hold a small log in any orientation while it is being cut. I also did it once using the BIL mill (with 42" bar) I put the 3 ft long log on the ground, placed two saw horses either side of and parallel to the log and used 2, 4 x 2" sitting on top of the saw horses as milling rails. It was a PITA getting the mill onto the rails but once I had done that it worked OK - lotsa noodles. Unfortunately the day I did this I did not have a camera with me. It did not cut as fast as I hoped it would, noodle clearance is an issue and I was not using skip chain. The other thing is holding such a short log in place while it is being cut is also not that easy, especially when cutting the lower half of the log. If I did this on a regular basis I would make a dedicated clamping device. I might do this again some time just so you can see all the noodles!



It would be nice to see how that goes, thanks for taking the time to reply to my daft questions.

Scott.


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## BobL (Mar 7, 2009)

demographic said:


> I don't think I explained that properly, I was meaning to cut through the log to give a bark edge all the was around, like the bit you answered below.
> The section I was thinking about getting would be an elipse of wood, sutable for the back of a bench or something like it.
> I understand that it will lose quite a bit of usable timber but if you get the wood for free it might be something nice to do.
> 
> It would be nice to see how that goes, thanks for taking the time to reply to my daft questions.



No worries about the questions. Yep I understand what you mean now. The cut down the log is not parallel to the grain but at an angle so you end up with an ellipse. This has been before but I do not recall a post about it before on this forum although I have only been a member since 2007. In Australia we call these cuts - surfboards. The way to do this is with a vertical rail mill so the log is placed at angle relative to the milling rail

There are many reasons why this is not common. One is it renders the rest of the log more or less useless for anything else. These cuts are also prone to cracking in the same way that rounds or cookies crack. Long wide pieces cut in this way need special handling and need to be carried in a much more supported manner otherwise they just snap like carrots. Smaller pieces are usually OK. The amount of cracking is less the longer and narrower the slab is but once they start cracking they often cannot be stopped and may continue to crack even after the piece is dry and has been made into furniture.

I have seen a 4ft wide table top made like this from River red gum and it was stunning. Another piece of furniture I saw made in this way was a drinks bar with the top and sides made from surfboards of Aussie Blackwood - that too was amazing

Once I have built up a big enough stash of regular lumber I will probably have a go at something like this


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## Brmorgan (Mar 7, 2009)

There IS a way of cutting diagonal sections from a log with an Alaskan, but it's a bit of a chore to set up (especially with bigger logs) and it's hard to get the log stable:






This is basically the way that Will Malloff does it in the book. It helps to freehand-cut a flat spot on the top point of the log where the guide board will contact, so there's a flat area to nail/screw the board down to keep everything square. Same goes for the base of the end support board at the bottom edge of the log. I've only done this a couple times and it's finicky. One thing that can help is to find an old tree stump that you can cut up to lean the log against. Sometimes this can also be used for extra support for the guide board, in which case you would just cut the top off the stump along with the first cut of the log.


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## BobL (Mar 7, 2009)

Brmorgan said:


> There IS a way of cutting diagonal sections from a log with an Alaskan, but it's a bit of a chore to set up (especially with bigger logs) and it's hard to get the log stable:



Yep - this is a neat method. It is limited to short lengths or narrow logs for most alaskans because they don't have the cutting depth that a rail mill has. For an alaskan to cut a surfboard from the full length of a log requires a cutting depth about equivalent to the diameter of the log. For example if you want full length surfboard from a 2ft wide board the mill has to be able to cut 24" deep. BIL mill could do it - just!






BTW I use the same method to get a start on awkwardly shaped logs like this.


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## demographic (Mar 8, 2009)

Those two ^ examples are what I was meaning, unfortunately I'm not quite as good at producing handy pictures that would have shown what I meant so thanks folks for working out what I was on about.

I understand that it renders most of the rest of the wood pretty useless but thought that on the very odd occasion with the right bit of wood it might produce something very nice to look at.

I like the term "Surfboard" for it, very descriptive.


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## BobL (Mar 8, 2009)

demographic said:


> I understand that it renders most of the rest of the wood pretty useless but thought that on the4 vert odd occasion with the right bit of wood it might produce something very nice to look at.



Yep - done right it looks just awesome, IMHO much better than those 4" thick glossy burl tables.


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