# A question for you professional loggers



## srb08 (Dec 31, 2012)

I don't mean any disrespect to anyone here but I need to ask a question.

Are most logging operations as much of a cluster**** as the ones shown on Ax Men?
I can't imagine operations as poorly organized and run as those, staying in business very long.


I would think that a great deal of what the show portrays as normal day to day operations, has been scripted to artificially create drama but having never been around that type of worksite, I thought I'd ask the guys who have.


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## logging22 (Dec 31, 2012)

Its all for the tv.


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## garyischofield (Dec 31, 2012)

*morons*

I've made a living in mechanized logging my whole adult life.(60 now)I can't stomach more than 90 seconds of the total idiocy of that show.I've met a lot of people from 40 years in this occupation.?Colorful,entertaining,unique,different-yes.Absolute buffoons and lowlife morons-no.How those operations on Axemen can get insured is a total mystery to me unless... You know about shows made for television?Strange how a very successful operation like Bobby Goodson/Swamp loggers with interesting shows was cancelled.I think in all the shows I watched, the portrayal of everyone concerned was of decent hardworking people,not as some neanderthal cement head swearing his head off.


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## dooby (Dec 31, 2012)

*Hmmmm!*

I have been in the brush a few years now.Started as a landing hand,tape holder,stump shoveler,etc. way before the age of 18 and am far from knowing it all at the tender age of 41 ,but i aint never seen anything like it. i tried watching it 2 yrs. ago with the objective it would be a little more profesional. I have only seen one crew i would pay taxes with. My family and i are disgusted with it . I think the staged crap is crap. I and many a logger like me are bigger enviro-freaks than any earthy type ever thought about and DAMN IT the practices they portray are poor. I am gonna loose it:bang:


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## hanniedog (Dec 31, 2012)

Isn't professional logger an oxymoron. Just asking.


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## Gologit (Dec 31, 2012)

hanniedog said:


> Isn't professional logger an oxymoron. Just asking.



Not in my neighborhood it's not. Any questions?


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## forestryworks (Dec 31, 2012)

hanniedog said:


> Isn't professional logger an oxymoron. Just asking.



Only in Ohio.

Anymore questions?


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## hanniedog (Dec 31, 2012)

Well so much for joking with loggers.


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## RandyMac (Dec 31, 2012)

hanniedog said:


> Well so much for joking with loggers.



:hmm3grin2orange: you forgot the smiley faces :hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


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## slowp (Dec 31, 2012)

I have observed a lot of crews. I'm not a logger, I am a retired forester. I've seen a few-- note the word few, rigging fits and they were for a good reason. I've had to dive behind stumps a couple of times, and run away from falling trees. But if the real world was like that show, there would be no loggers because they wouldn't be making any profit and the state safety inspectors would fine them big time and I'd probably be phoning the safety people to come out and fine them. 

As I've said before, I met one of the guys that is on the show. He was setting chokers and filling in for a friend. I didn't talk to him very much as he was working and keeping busy sending logs up the hill. Not at all like he is portrayed on the show. He said 80% of the show is acting and doing stunts. He has learned many ways to make a tail tree pull over when needed for the drama. 

Does that tell you anything? I can't watch it. To have the water idiots called loggers is insulting. Actually the whole show is now an insult--I thought the first season was the best, then it got worse each year. I can't watch it.


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## Gologit (Dec 31, 2012)

I tried to watch it this season. I lasted about 10 minutes and my wife turned it off. Said she couldn't stand all the yelling and screaming...from me.

The show might be entertaining to people that don't know any better...but it's not logging.


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## srb08 (Dec 31, 2012)

Thanks for the feedback, I guess it's just another reality show that is based on nothing real.


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## Gologit (Dec 31, 2012)

srb08 said:


> Thanks for the feedback, I guess it's just another reality show that is based on nothing real.



I can only comment on the Left Coast logging. The terrain is real. The weather is real. Some of the shots of the rigging crew wading through slash are pretty accurate. The way they dress is fairly true. The machinery is what is actually used in most places. Some of the falling is how it's really done...not all but some.

What _isn't_ real is the manufactured drama, the rivalries between companies, and the amount of time people waste while they stand around yelling at each other.


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## srb08 (Jan 1, 2013)

Gologit said:


> I can only comment on the Left Coast logging. The terrain is real. The weather is real. Some of the shots of the rigging crew wading through slash are pretty accurate. The way they dress is fairly true. The machinery is what is actually used in most places. Some of the falling is how it's really done...not all but some.
> 
> What _isn't_ real is the manufactured drama, the rivalries between companies, and the amount of time people waste while they stand around yelling at each other.



The drama and infighting was what I was talking about, guess I was a little vague in my statement.


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## madhatte (Jan 1, 2013)

Gologit said:


> What _isn't_ real is the manufactured drama, the rivalries between companies, and the amount of time people waste while they stand around yelling at each other.



Also the "timeline" -- while each outfit has both contract parameters and personal goals, I don't think they're competing on a common scoreboard. The show's presentation (from what I've seen) doesn't make the difference clear. I know I've never seen an outfit actually mutiny, and I've been on a few landings. 

Also, they do a terrible job of depicting actual PMW weather. I've seen maybe three whole episodes, and every time they #####ed about the rain, and every time I've said to myself, "Damn, even _I _wouldn't gripe about getting out of the truck over that!" We get some nasty monsoon crap that no sane person would step foot in... and yet there are folks who get up way earlier than I do to work way harder for way less money on on steeper slopes. Only good thing I have to say about Ax Men is that it focuses on the landing/rigging guys, who get way less props than they deserve.


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## Rounder (Jan 1, 2013)

1. Wood in front of yarders/helicopters.
2. Wood on the landing in front of delimbers/bumpers.
3. Shovels putting logs on trucks. 

That's how it really works. Not much room for moronics.


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## Gologit (Jan 1, 2013)

srb08 said:


> Thanks for the feedback, I guess it's just another reality show that is based on nothing real.



Take a look at this. It takes a while to wade through it but it's well worth the time. There are several videos in the series. It's a lot more realistic than that goofy AxMen garbage. 


<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/TCTFLA1tulE?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


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## H 2 H (Jan 1, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Take a look at this. It takes a while to wade through it but it's well worth the time. There are several videos in the series. It's a lot more realistic than that goofy AxMen garbage.
> 
> 
> <iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/TCTFLA1tulE?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>





This is the area were I live (born and raised) were that was filmed 

View attachment 270861


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## Oldtimer (Jan 1, 2013)

I'd wad that "coatsy" guy up into a ball and toss him down the hill..


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## logging22 (Jan 1, 2013)

Thank you for that. I watched all 8 parts. Wonderful stuff. Completely different than that crap on tv. Really enjoyed it.


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## 1270d (Jan 1, 2013)

That is a great series. It also seems to give an honest look into how the shovel/highlead style logging works. As a midwesterner I,ve only seen pictures and video. Sometime down the road id love to haul pack for a faller for a day or two. Get a little closer look.


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## Log slayer (Jan 1, 2013)

Axe men is the worst crap I have ever seen. I hate the way they are making loggers look to the out side world. It is a danger job and it deserves more respect. Logging has a long wonderful history in this country. I'm sorry I just have respect for the guys that have worked for a long time to be good in this industry.


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## srb08 (Jan 2, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Take a look at this. It takes a while to wade through it but it's well worth the time. There are several videos in the series. It's a lot more realistic than that goofy AxMen garbage.
> 
> 
> <iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/TCTFLA1tulE?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



Thanks for the vid, glad to see how it really works.


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## Steve NW WI (Jan 2, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Take a look at this. It takes a while to wade through it but it's well worth the time. There are several videos in the series. It's a lot more realistic than that goofy AxMen garbage.
> 
> 
> <iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/TCTFLA1tulE?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



That was a cool movie, well worth watching. The faller's 044 was a stout sounding saw too. I like the grousing about $1/gallon diesel!


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## s.v tmbrjak (Jan 25, 2013)

Unless you have ever logged in the North west.you don't know loggin.cuttin old growth and high lead loggin will make a man out of anyone of they can make the first couple weeks.


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## RandyMac (Jan 25, 2013)

s.v tmbrjak said:


> Unless you have ever logged in the North west.you don't know loggin.cuttin old growth and high lead loggin will make a man out of anyone of they can make the first couple weeks.



I have seen big tough talkers walk away after looking over the edge of a landing. Too farkin' funny.


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## paccity (Jan 25, 2013)

yupers.


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## mile9socounty (Jan 25, 2013)

paccity said:


> yupers.



Hey! What are you guys doing up behind my folks place? Taking a field trip down here and not telling me? Seriously, That looks like parts of Beals Creek, Basin Ck and Timbered Rock area. Steep enough you can spit from one side to the other from the landing. Lots of good hunting though, no one would get off the road and venture into the timber. 

The more parallel you get, the easier gravity work. :jester:


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## northmanlogging (Jan 25, 2013)

If I'm seeing that right they're using a spar tree and a double set of guy lines, but where the hell are the top guys anchored to? The next mountain:msp_scared:


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## floyd (Jan 25, 2013)

Follow the lines...into the draw. Looks like they go down a long way.


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## slowp (Jan 25, 2013)

If I bailed off the side of that landing more than a couple of times, the seat of my pants would wear out quickly. When things get steep and scary, butt slide! Hopefully you can find a few sprigs of vegetation to grab onto. Looks like the left side is gentler. Looks like the other side would take a rope to get down. 

I don't miss that.


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## s.v tmbrjak (Jan 25, 2013)

How could you not miss that???? That is what high lead is all about the steep ass hills we have logged is only one of the many thrills one can only experience with a passion for this kind of stuff.I Love it!!! Wouldn't trade it for anything


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## slowp (Jan 25, 2013)

I don't miss trying to find a way through a rocky bluff, hoping not to slip, heels dug in. Nope, I like a little less dramatic slopes. I do miss the not as steep stuff. But not the vertical slopes. 

I think a new thread is in order. I'll start one today. Unfortunately, I didn't pack a camera around with me then, it was too steep and gnarly.

I was telling a guy about sliding down fire hoses when we did broadcast burns. His eyes got big. We always gave the hose a good tug to make sure it was still hooked up before going down. The old growth clearcutting usually nuked the nice huckleberry and vine maple handholds.


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## OlympicYJ (Jan 25, 2013)

If I remember correctly that is the last sled mounted yarder Simpson used before going to steel towers so that was from the Grisdale country on the Olympic Peninsula. Got it in the Grisdale book back home.


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## paccity (Jan 25, 2013)

OlympicYJ said:


> If I remember correctly that is the last sled mounted yarder Simpson used before going to steel towers so that was from the Grisdale country on the Olympic Peninsula. Got it in the Grisdale book back home.


 like this one


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## KYLogger (Jan 25, 2013)

With today's price for parts I would HATE to have to buy those brake bands layin' on the back of that sled!:msp_scared:


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## OlympicYJ (Jan 25, 2013)

paccity said:


> like this one



I don't know. In the Grisdale book they only show the pic of the yarder on the landing.Unfortunately I don't have the book here in Idaho it's at home. I have seen that pic before and always seen it referenced to the Olympic Peninsula and Simpson. Did they use an OR pic for a WA book? Wouldn't be the first time.

That pickup behind the yarder has a red hood. Simpson's colors back then were red? Do you have some Simpson pics Pac? :cool2:


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## hammerlogging (Jan 25, 2013)

s.v tmbrjak said:


> Unless you have ever logged in the North west.you don't know loggin.cuttin old growth and high lead loggin will make a man out of anyone of they can make the first couple weeks.



that explains it, thanks.

A good bud-
View attachment 275589


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## KYLogger (Jan 25, 2013)

I knew there was a reason I feel inadequate....................................NOT


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## KYLogger (Jan 25, 2013)

I knew there was a reason I feel inadequate. Maybe I can be a real logger too one day:msp_biggrin:


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## Gologit (Jan 25, 2013)

s.v tmbrjak said:


> Unless you have ever logged in the North west.you don't know loggin.cuttin old growth and high lead loggin will make a man out of anyone of they can make the first couple weeks.




You might want to re-word that...just a little. Some of the guys from the other side of the Rockies are pretty good loggers. They go at it a little different and the wood is different but from what I've seen the last few years here they're logging just like we are.

They face pretty much the same problems we do...just in a different part of the country.

Cut 'em some slack. They talk a little funny but they're not bad guys. Usually. :msp_biggrin:


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## logging22 (Jan 25, 2013)

s.v tmbrjak said:


> Unless you have ever logged in the North west.you don't know loggin.cuttin old growth and high lead loggin will make a man out of anyone of they can make the first couple weeks.



Is that right? Just because im not from the west coast means i dont know how to log? Pftttt! Logging is logging. Just cause i dont have a high lead or tower or any of that bs dont mean i dont know how to log. We just do it different here, thats all.


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## slowp (Jan 25, 2013)

s.v tmbrjak said:


> How could you not miss that???? That is what high lead is all about the steep ass hills we have logged is only one of the many thrills one can only experience with a passion for this kind of stuff.I Love it!!! Wouldn't trade it for anything



According to your profile, you are 23 years old. Where around Etna, CA are they still high lead logging old growth timber? 

Just wondering.


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## Gologit (Jan 25, 2013)

slowp said:


> According to your profile, you are 23 years old. Where around Etna, CA are they still high lead logging old growth timber?
> 
> Just wondering.



I can't think of anywhere around here where they're doing that. You might pick up a corner here and there but it's usually scattered and they'll cat log it or use a helicopter. Not nearly enough to justify what it would cost to bring in a yarder. 

Enough OG for a yarder side would be good to see and I'd like to get in on it but I don't see it happening.


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## redprospector (Jan 25, 2013)

slowp said:


> According to your profile, you are 23 years old. Where around Etna, CA are they still high lead logging old growth timber?
> 
> Just wondering.



Hahaha. Our last tall tail slinging Paul Bunyan was from New Mexico. Looks like California get's to lay claim to this one. 

Andy


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## Gologit (Jan 25, 2013)

redprospector said:


> Hahaha. Our last tall tail slinging Paul Bunyan was from New Mexico. Looks like California get's to lay claim to this one.
> 
> Andy



We're going to send him up to Warshington and get him on a yarder show.


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## slowp (Jan 25, 2013)

There are self loading trucks coming out of somewhere in my neighborhood, but there are no cheery whistles to be heard so I do not think a yarder is working. Nope, no need for more Colifonians up here, even ones from Siskiyou County. :msp_mad: Don't move here.


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## Gologit (Jan 25, 2013)

slowp said:


> Nope, no need for more Colifonians up here, even ones from Siskiyou County. :msp_mad: Don't move here.



Darn! How about one from Grass Valley? How 'bout if we promise not to start every other sentence with "Well, in California that's not the way we...."


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## Jacob J. (Jan 25, 2013)

mile9socounty said:


> Hey! What are you guys doing up behind my folks place? Taking a field trip down here and not telling me? Seriously, That looks like parts of Beals Creek, Basin Ck and Timbered Rock area. Steep enough you can spit from one side to the other from the landing. Lots of good hunting though, no one would get off the road and venture into the timber.
> 
> The more parallel you get, the easier gravity work. :jester:



Timbered Rock maybe, I never saw anything up Beals Creek that was that bad. When I was with Huff & Puff, we logged 900 acres on BLM up behind my uncle Jim's house, it wasn't so bad. A few small rock bluffs scattered through the unit but good enough timber. I was getting three longs or two longs and a short out of it. That picture is classic Tillamook logging though. 



floyd said:


> Follow the lines...into the draw. Looks like they go down a long way.



That's how that ground is. We had a lane in a unit on Burnt Mountain that was 4300' from the edge of the landing to the creek. 50 minute hike out almost everyday.


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## redprospector (Jan 25, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Darn! How about one from Grass Valley? How 'bout if we promise not to start every other sentence with *"Well, in California that's not the way we....*"



Hahaha. We had a guy that did that (replace California with Texas). Took up a collection and bought him a bus ticket home. He didn't go though. 

Andy


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## madhatte (Jan 26, 2013)

Gologit said:


> We're going to send him up to Warshington and get him on a yarder show.



Oh no you don't


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## mile9socounty (Jan 26, 2013)

Jacob J. said:


> Timbered Rock maybe, I never saw anything up Beals Creek that was that bad. When I was with Huff & Puff, we logged 900 acres on BLM up behind my uncle Jim's house, it wasn't so bad. A few small rock bluffs scattered through the unit but good enough timber. I was getting three longs or two longs and a short out of it. That picture is classic Tillamook logging though.



There are a few good area's. Left hand fork where the old jeep road tied into the main Beals. Thats a pretty far drop down in the hole. The old tie road from the Russel Ck mine back over to the 4 corners. (Beals, Shively, Stouts and the lake.) Right above the rock pit on the right hand side. I think Brownson did the job. But nothing tops the clear cuts I had to plant just west of Sutherlin. The unit was called Valley Sandwich. Why? I had no idea, but I didnt end up liking the hillside. I believe it was Tyee Mt.


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## RandyMac (Jan 26, 2013)

They grow a lot of pot near Etna.


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## floyd (Jan 26, 2013)

I'm thinking it was the collective "we".


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## hammerlogging (Jan 26, 2013)

Gologit said:


> We're going to send him up to Warshington and get him on a yarder show.



But I thought he was volunteering to cut all my nasty ####.


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## Gologit (Jan 26, 2013)

hammerlogging said:


> But I thought he was volunteering to cut all my nasty ####.



Yup...he did mention that he was looking for work.


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## s.v tmbrjak (Jan 27, 2013)

they grow alot of pot everywhere! and to say people like me live in california is kinda an insult. state of jefferson


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## 056 kid (Jan 27, 2013)

Almost everytime I crossed the winchuck on an airey day I could smell that intoxicating aroma. 
Then again, every time I see a roadkill skunk, I smell pot hahahaha.


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## northmanlogging (Jan 27, 2013)

s.v tmbrjak said:


> they grow alot of pot everywhere! and to say people like me live in california is kinda an insult. state of jefferson



Up here in Warshington, we can spot kaliphonians, just by the way they walk, and how they drive, the pure bs comes when they open their mouths and start voting, or running for office, not to mention the carrying of an umbrella, so yeah its kind of an insult... cheers:msp_biggrin:


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## RandyMac (Jan 27, 2013)

s.v tmbrjak said:


> they grow alot of pot everywhere! and to say people like me live in California is kinda an insult. state of Jefferson



simmer down lad


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## northmanlogging (Jan 27, 2013)

I don't get much news up here, how is that whole state of Jefferson thing going anyway?


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## slowp (Jan 27, 2013)

And is the Johnny Cash bus still parked at Seiad Valley? 

I fear that we natives of our fair state are outnumbered now by the Callyfonian exiles. At least, it sure seems that way.


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## mile9socounty (Jan 27, 2013)

slowp said:


> And is the Johnny Cash bus still parked at Seiad Valley?
> 
> I fear that we natives of our fair state are outnumbered now by the Callyfonian exiles. At least, it sure seems that way.



Yall aint the only ones. Remember, they all have to pass through Orygun with the moving vans.


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## OlympicYJ (Jan 28, 2013)

mile9socounty said:


> Yall aint the only ones. Remember, they all have to pass through Orygun with the moving vans.



I'm sure a few VW buses broke down and there they stayed....


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