# new guy milling



## liftaddict (Dec 19, 2009)

Just started milling. I have a Stihl 076 and an Alaskan mini mill. SO far I have made 14' x 20" x 4" ( two ) posts out of white oak, a number of 2" x 8' red oak and hickory boards. I still have a 10 trees on the ground. I dropped them in July of 09. What is the fastest way to protect some of these trees so I can mill them later? Sealer recommendations? Not sure if it is best to quarter the trees into 8' lengths and stack them? The site is on a south facing hill. Steep, drops about 1 ft /ft more in some places. I don't have any help to move it. I can carry the 2' x 8' boards up the hill but that is my limit. :greenchainsaw::monkey:


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## huskyhank (Dec 19, 2009)

I think getting the logs off the ground would be the most important thing to do, then seal the ends.


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## BobL (Dec 20, 2009)

huskyhank said:


> I think getting the logs off the ground would be the most important thing to do, then seal the ends.



+1

Plus, if it's summer, get them under some form of cover if you can.

Oh yeah - and welcome aboard liftadict - this is a crazsy place - but we have a lot of fun.


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## Andrew96 (Dec 20, 2009)

CT eh? That means snow. Get them off the ground before they freeze to it and you cannot move them (already might be too late). They need to be off the ground and get the ends sealed. Use anything you can to seal them....paint works. See if you can roll them up onto some of your scrap from your last cutting session. Anything to get them off the ground.


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## liftaddict (Dec 20, 2009)

Thanks for the support . My spousal unit thinks that I am crazy. Yes there is snow on the ground . Got about a ft saturday. A lot of it is lying on other trees. I had to drop 35 trees to get the solar panels approved . I can't move a red or white oak with a 24" trunk. I can only mill it where it lies. 

What can I use to seal it when it is below 50. I don't think that latex will work when it is this cold?

When milling does it really matter if i go parallel to the center of the tree ( core?). 

If I have to choose which is it best to mill white oak, red oak, or hickory? 

I was thinking of making shelves or paneling with the wood. Anybody have any suggestions what the most valuable/use ful size would be. My brother said to quater some of the pieces so they could be used for furniture making?

thanks for any suggestions I love my 076 that baby will cut 1 foot/min in hikory, red oak is even faster.


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## huskyhank (Dec 20, 2009)

Anchorseal is my favorite but most anything is better than nothing. Latex will work fine, maybe pick a warmer day to do it. Since you're not concerned with a nice clean painted finish I think the temperature won't matter too much as long as its above freezing.

Quartering is more work than just slabbing the logs and there's more set-up time involved. Slab-sawn lumber is useful for furniture projects but its not the best way to get the most/best boards out of the log. 

Yes, parallel to the heart is the way to go. If you have access to a big bandsaw, use the CSM to cut big fat boards and then resaw on the bandsaw. The work will go faster and you'll have more wood when you're finished.

I'd quartersaw the white oak first, but only because that's the most favorable cut from a financial standpoint and what I'd want for my projects. 

But I'd also just slab the first one to get a handle on how this works, then move on to more sophisticated cutting. Less set-up, more boards quicker.

Go ahead and cut one log and see how it works for you. You'll figure it out.


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## Andrew96 (Dec 21, 2009)

liftaddict said:


> I can't move a red or white oak with a 24" trunk. I can only mill it where it lies.



I have this problem all the time. I think you should try though. Can't you cut it down to a good size (say 10.5' ) and roll it onto something? Get one end up (so the middle is off the ground).




liftaddict said:


> What can I use to seal it when it is below 50. I don't think that latex will work when it is this cold?



Do you have something that's not latex? Use anything...rattle can of tremclad will still cover it and dry eventually.


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## liftaddict (Dec 21, 2009)

Well I was trying not to buy anymore hardware for this project. Or atleast not buy something that would not have future use. I was thinking about buying 500 ft of 4 ton aircraft cable and stringing it between the some oaks. Some rollers and an 8000 lb comealong from harbour freight would complete the look. That might even work. Trouble is that wood is so heavy if I mess up it ends up in my neighbors living room. 

Seriously I understand I should rig up something to lift it or I will loose it.
thanks


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## Andrew96 (Dec 22, 2009)

Oh geezz....hold on there. Roll it! Cut the log down to something just a bit bigger than you can mill it too (recut the ends off in the spring if required). If you use a starter board, ladder...cut it the right size for that. I doubt that will be 20' long. It should be in a size you can roll now. You could use...crowbar, pick axe, shovel, come along, truck with chain to roll it. Cut a wedge (like something you'd drive your car up onto to change the oil) and roll part or all of the tree onto the wedge. If there is no way to do any of that without buying a winch and cable...just leave it. You won't 'lose' it by spring. The bottom will be all muddy but it will still be good inside.


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## liftaddict (Dec 22, 2009)

Thanks andrew. I have milled two hickorys, One white oak and one red oak. I have been milling the ones that are in the air. Now that I feel more comfortable handling the 076 (111 cc stihl) i was thinking of tackling a nice white oak that is on the ground and about 50 ft long. My 14ft x 4in x18in boards have started to split. They have been in the basement since july. I was thinking of making a shelf to the top of the cathedral ceiling. I don't want to cut another set until I come up with some better method to control the splitting. On the red oak that I am working on now ( before the snow started ), I was using my mini mill to do both horizontal and vertical cuts. So I am getting better at it. :greenchainsaw: Thanks again for all the input. It is good to have someone besided the spousal unit to discuss this with.


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## liftaddict (Dec 22, 2009)

I was reviewing the granberg videos and looking for the mistakes that I may have made. How important is it to mill parallel to the heart/core? Will all my boards not milled this way warp?:monkey:


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## huskyhank (Dec 22, 2009)

liftaddict said:


> Thanks andrew. snipped......
> 
> My 14ft x 4in x18in boards have started to split. They have been in the basement since july. I was thinking of making a shelf to the top of the cathedral ceiling. I don't want to cut another set until I come up with some better method to control the splitting.



Seal the ends with Anchorseal immediately upon cutting the tree.
Maybe seal them again when you stack up your milled boards.


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## mtngun (Dec 22, 2009)

liftaddict said:


> Well I was trying not to buy anymore hardware for this project. I was thinking about buying 500 ft of 4 ton aircraft cable and stringing it between the some oaks. Some rollers and an 8000 lb comealong from harbour freight would complete the look. That might even work. Trouble is that wood is so heavy if I mess up it ends up in my neighbors living room.


Speaking of hardware, add a 60" logrite peavy to your wish list, so you can roll those logs around. There will probably be times when you need to roll the logs to set up for milling -- I always take my logrite on milling expeditions and it's one of those things that make me wonder how I ever got a long without it.

Also add a digital camera to your wish list so you can post pictures of your logs and milling rig.:biggrinbounce2:

I use Baileys sealer on log & board ends but anything is better than nothing -- paint, aluminum roofing paint, just anything water resistant. 

Based on your description of the location it sounds like you'll have to mill the trees where they fall. Fine, that's what Alaskan mills do best.


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## Andrew96 (Dec 23, 2009)

liftaddict said:


> It is good to have someone besided the spousal unit to discuss this with.



That's how I started reading all this stuff here, I don't know any wood working people. These guys here know tons of stuff. I read for years before I decided to speak up. Learn to use the search functions. Tons of info here. You can read everything your new friends said long ago. 
As for drying and splits....I cut mine longer than I need but seal them the day I cut them..even if I think they are dry because they were on the ground. They are still wet inside. If I choose to cut bumps and limbs off...I seal those 'ends' too. Search and read all about drying but all I know is...think how to make them dry slow. Fast = cracks for sure. I dry my stuff outside for 1 year..then inside for another. Dries too fast inside. I cut 2.25" though..not 4"!


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## Andrew96 (Dec 23, 2009)

mtngun said:


> Speaking of hardware, add a 60" logrite peavy to your wish list, so you can roll those logs around. There will probably be times when you need to roll the logs to set up for milling


 
A peavy is my next project to make now that my aux oiler is done. 
What's the difference between a peavy and a cant hook? They look the same. 
If I'm going to make it myself...would you recommend any special features? I don't mean a drink holder or umbrella girl.


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## BobL (Dec 23, 2009)

Andrew96 said:


> A peavy is my next project to make now that my aux oiler is done.
> What's the difference between a peavy and a cant hook? They look the same.
> If I'm going to make it myself...would you recommend any special features? I don't mean a drink holder or umbrella girl.



A peavy is a cant hook with a spike on the end.
Some interesting info here about therm, http://www.ruralheritage.com/logging_camp/peavey.htm
And here http://www.mcmillanlibrary.org/rosholt/wi-logging-book/wilogging/images/00000007.pdf

Look in my sig for my home made Cant hook and something I call a Cant Dragon - the dragon is a winner on logs that have lost a bit of bark and turn into slippery fish. I thought the teeth on the Dragon was a new idea but I have since seen old photos and drawing of cant hooks with teeth, but have yet to see any with two rows of teeth like mine.

They both work really well on big logs but are both too big for small logs, I should make a smaller, lighter weight hook for moving small logs


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## oldsaw (Dec 23, 2009)

Andrew96 said:


> A peavy is my next project to make now that my aux oiler is done.
> What's the difference between a peavy and a cant hook? They look the same.
> If I'm going to make it myself...would you recommend any special features? I don't mean a drink holder or umbrella girl.



I'm more partial to a cant hook. A peavey has a point at the nose, a cant hook doesn't. Go to the LogRite website and look. I've got the 60" cant hook that I've had for years. Incredible piece of engineering. Don't use my old one very much anymore.


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## chuckwood (Dec 23, 2009)

*lifting logs*



liftaddict said:


> Well I was trying not to buy anymore hardware for this project. Or atleast not buy something that would not have future use. I was thinking about buying 500 ft of 4 ton aircraft cable and stringing it between the some oaks. Some rollers and an 8000 lb comealong from harbour freight would complete the look. That might even work. Trouble is that wood is so heavy if I mess up it ends up in my neighbors living room.
> 
> Seriously I understand I should rig up something to lift it or I will loose it.
> thanks



Be careful with comealongs and steel cables. You're right in the line of fire if something breaks. I lift my logs with some heavy steel angle iron that I bolt onto one end of a log. I bring a small generator with me and use a very heavy duty geared down drill with a socket in the chuck. Then screw in maybe 3 or 4 1/2 inch diameter 8" long lag screws to fasten the angle iron onto the end of the log, it sounds complicated but goes quickly with heavy power tools. The angle iron is sticking out on both sides. On each side I lay down a couple short pieces of 3x12's. Then I place some 1 1/2 ton automotive type floor jacks on the 3x12's and start jacking on the steel angle. Since you're jacking on each side, the log is stable and doesn't roll. I place lumber pieces under the log as I go. By stacking lumber pieces under this rig as you go, you can get it as high as you like, within reason. With one end up in the air, place a log under the center as a fulcrum. Also for safety, lag screw a 2x6 onto the other end of the log so it cannot roll under any circumstances. Fiddle around and get it just where you want it. Sounds complicated but it works quickly for me once you get used to the procedure. For really big logs, use a larger piece of steel angle and use 3 ton automotive floor jacks. There's probably an easier way, but I've not figured it out or found it yet. I put my system together from stuff laying around in the shop and tools I already owned.


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## BobL (Dec 23, 2009)

In the south west corner of Western Australia there is a small town with a logging museum with a list of guys that died in the last 100 years while working in the local logging industry. The list has about 55 names, 14 of those were killed while loading or moving logs. In the early days when the first cables were used a lot of workers were also injured and one was quickly told never to stand alongside a cable but always well out to the side. As chuckwood says with comealongs you are right in the line of fire 

That list is also here http://members.westnet.com.au/fernhill/7MTWM.html
It makes for sobering reading. My dad's partner, Charlie MULLETTA is also on the list - he was felling by himself and found under a big branch. He's the dude sitting on the stump in this photo, the other bloke is my dad.


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## Andrew96 (Dec 24, 2009)

BobL...you always seem to amaze me with your links to valuable information. A very good history lesson on logging tools. You mentioned that your cant dragon is too big for small logs...how small is that? Your small ones might be big for me. 
I agree with Chuckwood...I'm not a fan of cables and come alongs...blocks and chains are OK (when used correctly) since chains break differently than cables. They'll still hurt you though. 
However, I mill where the tree falls. I don't have equipment to move them around in one piece. I wanted a cant hook/peavey, to first get them off the ground (for clearance for the saw), and then worry about alignment once up on V blocks I make on site. 
Your history lesson links directed me to a 'high lift' cant hook....just what I wanted. Someone has done this before. It has a foot on the back to lift the log off the ground for clearance for a cross cut saw. Amazing. Back to the drawing board for my project. With two minutes of thought, I think I'd like something like a high lift cant hook. 
Again, thanks for the links....."link master" bobL. 
Lots of danger in the woods...I bet your Dad would be amazed to hear it's more dangerous to get to the woods..than work in them.


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## Andrew96 (Dec 24, 2009)

oldsaw said:


> I'm more partial to a cant hook. A peavey has a point at the nose, a cant hook doesn't. Go to the LogRite website and look. I've got the 60" cant hook that I've had for years. Incredible piece of engineering. Don't use my old one very much anymore.



Thanks Oldsaw. Originally I couldn't see why I'd want something that is so long...I mean 60"!!! When reading Bobls links, I saw photos of guys leaning the handle on their shoulder (holding the hook, holding the log in position) freeing up their hands to maybe...block the tree in position? I never thought of that not having used a cant hook or a peavey before.


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## BobL (Dec 24, 2009)

Andrew96 said:


> BobL...you always seem to amaze me with your links to valuable information.


Cheers Andrew, I go through an interesting tension when it comes to making rigs and jigs. As a scientist one is trained to go see what has been done first so I spend a fair bit of time researching stuff. But before I do that I often just see what I can come up with by myself - that way I an not fooled into just following the existing ruts. 95% of the time I cannot compete with what has been done before so I do end up following the herd.



> A very good history lesson on logging tools. You mentioned that your cant dragon is too big for small logs...how small is that? Your small ones might be big for me.


By too big, I mean the hooks are too big. My big cant hook is 14" long and the handle is 48" long so it is 62" long overall. The Cant dragon is 12" long with a 36" handle and the hook is still too big for small longs. The next one I make will have a 10" hook.



> Lots of danger in the woods...I bet your Dad would be amazed to hear it's more dangerous to get to the woods..than work in them.


Not really, he stopped felling trees was he was permanently disabled in a logging truck accident on the way to the logging site.

The accident was, as they say, an unfortunate series of events.

The truck was doing 50 mph in a storm and Lightning hit a 120' x 36" hardwood tree that fell onto a gravel road immediately in front of the log truck. The driver hit the brakes hard, and instinctively steered his side of the truck away from the tree. The air brakes on the prime mover held, but they failed on the massive 8 wheeled bogie/jinker traveling behind, and as it was not attached firmly enough to the hitch, it slid down the hitch and slammed the truck now at an angle into the log. Dad was on the side of the truck that struck the tree.

Dad could see all this coming so he grabbed hold of the sides of his seat just as the truck hit. As he flew through the truck windscreen with is head, still hanging onto the passengers seat (luckily he had not put on his seat belt of he would have been squashed into a 2' gap) he tore off his left knee cap and broke his left leg in several places. He then went flying through the air and hit a big upright tree head on (lucky he had his hardhat on) broke several ribs, cracked three vertebrae and had serious internal injuries. He spent 2 years off work but never recovered his physical health and went back to school and became an office worker. For this injury and loss of income he was paid the princely sum of US$1200 which basically our family broke - but that is another story.

Like I said - the drive to milling it's a dangerous business.


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## liftaddict (Dec 25, 2009)

ok the latex comes out tomorrow. It will be part of my regular cutting tool box. I think with all this good advice I am almost ready to tackle the piece I really want to mill. I will probably make temp shelves from my first cuts and turn them into fire wood after the good stuff dries after a couple of years. Would linseed oil be a good sealer for the wood that is inside or will the fumes kill me. Doesn' t smell too bad in the can.


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## BobL (Dec 25, 2009)

liftaddict said:


> ok the latex comes out tomorrow. It will be part of my regular cutting tool box. I think with all this good advice I am almost ready to tackle the piece I really want to mill. I will probably make temp shelves from my first cuts and turn them into fire wood after the good stuff dries after a couple of years. Would linseed oil be a good sealer for the wood that is inside or will the fumes kill me. Doesn' t smell too bad in the can.



Are you intending to use the linseed as an end sealer? If so it will not work all that well unless you apply multiple coats. You need something a bit more impervious like plastic paint or a wax based end sealer. As a general finish Linseed is fine for inside use but may want to let it dry in your shed or outside first. Linseed is used as a base of many proprietary finishes. I imagine raw linseed will take a lot longer to dry in your cold weather. I use pale boiled linseed oil which dries quicker.


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## liftaddict (Dec 25, 2009)

I was impatient and wanted to make some shelves from my wood while the good stuff drys outside for 4 years. So I wanted something that did not hide the natural beauty of the wood and did seal in the moisture into the wood and I could take it off with my plane or belt sander later in a few years. I know that latex will work but will hide the grain.


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## BobL (Dec 25, 2009)

liftaddict said:


> I was impatient and wanted to make some shelves from my wood while the good stuff drys outside for 4 years. So I wanted something that did not hide the natural beauty of the wood and did seal in the moisture into the wood and I could take it off with my plane or belt sander later in a few years. I know that latex will work but will hide the grain.



OK - I get it know. 
I assume you know you only need to add sealer to the ends of the wood and if you add a sealer all over it will take decades to dry? 

For green timber shelving, linseed sounds fine and you thin it down with a bit of turps if you wanted it to dry out a bit quicker. I would apply it to the wood if it was soaking wet, at least give the surface a chance to dry out. You could always also just apply it to one side of the wood.


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## liftaddict (Dec 26, 2009)

I have heard about sealing the ends with various things. Right now I am looking into using Tung oil. I think Boiled linseed is out because of the outgassing. Tung oil with no additives might work ok? :bang:


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## huskyhank (Dec 26, 2009)

*No finish*

You'll regret finishing the sides of the green wood. If you must use it as shelves just leave it bare so it will dry. Keep in mind that anything you place on the wet wood will be affected by the moisture.


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## liftaddict (Dec 27, 2009)

I bought some anchorseal yesterday so I am sealing the ends today. I don't really want to use the stuff as shelves but I already have several hundred linear feet and am running out of ideas where to stack the stuff. :monkey:


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## liftaddict (Dec 27, 2009)

Got a break in the weather so anchor sealed all the inside and outside stuff I could get to. Pic of milling site attached


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## Andrew96 (Dec 27, 2009)

Nice job getting it all sealed up. Looks like you have an area big enough you could get your truck chained up and get them up on level ground. If not...rolling them so they are downhill (for milling) will be your next job. 
Lots of solar panels (I'm assuming).


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## huskyhank (Dec 27, 2009)

I've got a steep backyard like that with some trees down that I'll mill pretty soon. I would not have cut them there but the previous owner must have thought it a good idea.


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## oldsaw (Dec 27, 2009)

Andrew96 said:


> Thanks Oldsaw. Originally I couldn't see why I'd want something that is so long...I mean 60"!!! When reading Bobls links, I saw photos of guys leaning the handle on their shoulder (holding the hook, holding the log in position) freeing up their hands to maybe...block the tree in position? I never thought of that not having used a cant hook or a peavey before.



My other cant hook is about 50" and that doesn't often get the leverage I often need. An 8", wet, hardwood log tends to be heavy, and the extra force a long lever gets you often pays off. You have to realize the weight you are dealing with, and that you are often on soft ground which makes moving logs harder. Even with a 60", it comes up short quite often.


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