# Black Walnut help please



## redfin (Aug 1, 2014)

We are building our house this year and I'm trying to bring the stair case in my mind to fruition.

What I want to build is a steel staircase with black walnut treads. Basically it will be a 6" square tube "backbone" with 4" square tube risers. On top of the riser tubing I want to use 3/8" plate to which the walnut will be lagged on top of.

Here's my question. I want the treads to be roughly 3" thick. I'm concerned even after I have them kiln dried they will split out. Is this somethinng I should be conncerned with? It has taken me almost a year to find a gentleman in our area that has the timber and the mill to slab these for me. My other option is to laminate 3/4" together then finish. This is new territory for me and I appreciate your help. 

I have been into metal fab for awhile and that's where this idea came from. Blending the two.


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## 1ruralmailman (Aug 2, 2014)

i would think that with them being kiln dried you should be fine.that said,you will have to expect some loss just in the drying process as they will probably move alot.if it were me and i was to be doing this i think i would either drill my lag hole extra big,and use a washer.or make it elongated in the steel with the way the wood will move and JUST tighten them snug.that way as they want to move with the weather they should be able to do it.good luck and photos of it done are a requirement.


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## redfin (Aug 2, 2014)

I hadn't thought about the movement of the wood. I was hoping to find a taper lag head. Thought Fastnal would be able to find something. That way, when looking from the underside of the stairs the bottom will be completely flush.

The wood expanding and contracting throws that idea right out the window.


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## blades (Aug 4, 2014)

If you seal all 6 sides including the bolt holes the contraction expansion should be extremely minimal. It is when only a couple sides are sealed that problems develop. The material would need to be kiln dried to 8% initially. Then allowed to stabilize in your local, then sealed. A lot has to due with the way the wood is milled in the first place as to how stable it will be.


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## redfin (Aug 4, 2014)

What do you mean, how its milled?


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## mdavlee (Aug 4, 2014)

redfin said:


> What do you mean, how its milled?



Quarter sawn or just cut boards.


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## Dave Boyt (Aug 4, 2014)

Walnut is one of the most stable woods, so you've got that going for you. To clarify Mdavlee's comment, the quarter sawn wood is more stable, though this will not be an issue if it is kiln dried and sealed. Getting the wood kiln dried may be an issue, though. Wood that thick will take special drying, and most kiln operators won't make a special load for your stair treads. That alone may dictate that you go with laminated wood. The laminated wood will have less stress in any case.


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## redfin (Aug 4, 2014)

Thanks for the replies. I'm sorry but what exactly do you mean quarter sawn? I have a call into a local kiln operator. What would need to be done differently?

Also the gentleman who has the logs is just a retired backyard small mill. He told me he wasn't sure what to charge me. What would be fair for what I need?


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## jhall (Aug 4, 2014)

Quartersawn is a (slightly more difficult) way of milling so that the grain is as straight up and down across the end of the board as it can be.


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## redfin (Aug 4, 2014)

I see. That's probably not feasible with the two logs he has.


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## Sawyer Rob (Aug 4, 2014)

jhall said:


> Quartersawn is a (slightly more difficult) way of milling so that the grain is as straight up and down across the end of the board as it can be.



I'm going to disagree with the above illustrations a bit... Each way of the above milling has all three kinds of lumber coming out of them and you will get MORE "quarter sawn" lumber out of what you have labeled "rift".

SR


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## jhall (Aug 4, 2014)

Sawyer Rob said:


> I'm going to disagree with the above illustrations a bit... Each way of the above milling has all three kinds of lumber coming out of them and you will get MORE "quarter sawn" lumber out of what you have labeled "rift".
> 
> SR


That illustration was just something googled real quick. I am not very familiar with rift sawn lumber, so I have no idea how accurate it is. The illustration for quartersawn was all I was after. I'm sure there are other ways to go about it, that is just the way I've always seen it done.


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## Sawyer Rob (Aug 4, 2014)

It's the way folks do it, because there's less waste, but much of the lumber isn't true Q.sawn lumber.

What's labeled rift, is the real Q.sawn lumber...

SR


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## woodchuck357 (Aug 5, 2014)

Back when I was working at the family's saw mill, plain sawing and rift sawing were the same cut, just different names. Just keep running the saw thru the log without turning it. I know most folks don't agree, but that is the way all the saw people I knew referred to it. Quarter sawn refers to the method used to cut boards, not the way they look.
Most of the lumber we cut was quarter sawn, usually using the triple cut or alternate method in this diagram. We never used the radial method.
As I understood it the name came from first cutting the log into quarters, of course after the wide center boards were cut.
The triple cut method was mostly used because it meant less turning than the alternate method and basically resulted in the same board feet and the same quality. A few boards obviously wind up being the same as radial cut and these were usually set aside and sold as a lot mostly to furniture makers. 
We almost never used the method labeled common because the way our saw was set up holding the quarter was more difficult. There was more waste and more time was spent so we charged more if someone insisted that method be used when cutting their lumber. That led a few folks to feel the lumber cut that way was superior.


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## Dave Boyt (Aug 5, 2014)

Jhall's image is incorrect. I checked the Knowledge Base of Woodweb.com, and here is Gene Wengert's explanation. If he says it, it must be so!

*"Quarter sawn grain has the annual rings at an angle of 75 to 90 degrees to the face, while rift is 45 to 75 degrees." *See more at: http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Quality_Issues_with.html#sthash.vAeYnaZq.dpuf

Here is an illustration. Note that, as you get near the center, you can have all three patterns in the same boards-- quarter sawn near the edge, rift sawn, and flat (plain) sawn near the middle. You don't want to use the wood near the center of the growth rings, because it will likely crack and cause the wood to warp. Any sawing pattern will, as Sawyer Rob says, yield some quarter sawn wood. There are certain ways the sawyer can maximize this. My suggestion is to not worry about quartersawing the walnut. Get it kiln dry, seal the surfaces, install, and enjoy!


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## woodchuck357 (Aug 5, 2014)

I would just cut the walnut, sticker and stack then air dry it a few years. Then plane it, finish all sides, and replace the stained soft wood treads I had been using while the walnut dried.


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## redfin (Aug 5, 2014)

Wow that's quite an education you guys are givinng me. Thank you very much. I did get another lead on some 12/4 walnut today. I spoke with him and he is checking to see if he has enough at the correct depth we need. Best part is this lumber has already been kiln dried.

If he doesn't have enough then I will go back to the original fella and have him mill what we need.

What do you feel is the best product to seal/finish this walnut with? Looking for something as clear as possible to keep the tone of the wood natural.


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## woodchuck357 (Aug 5, 2014)

Oil based Polyurethane


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## Sawyer Rob (Aug 6, 2014)

Just so you know, you will NEVER stop that wood from moving, no matter what finish you put on it, or how you apply it, but a good finish will slow the movement down...

SR


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## redfin (Aug 6, 2014)

Oriiginally I had planned to countersink holes in the plate and try to find the tapered lags. I can't remember what that specific bolt head is called.

I am going to dato the size of the plate from the underside of the slabs. I'm trying to make the underside look as flush as possible.

Does anyone have any better ideas for attching the treads?


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## woodchuck357 (Aug 7, 2014)

I did something similar, in white oak, for a lady several years ago. I inlet the metal into the tread, screwed up thru the metal, then screwed a second piece of wood to the bottom of the tread to completely cover the support plate.


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## redfin (Aug 7, 2014)

Did you allow for movement of the treads with the holes in the plate?


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## woodchuck357 (Aug 7, 2014)

Used three holes in two lines. The center one tight, the other two with slight elongating along the width of the board. The length won't change hardly at all and the width and thickness will change depending on amount of variation in the humidity in the house. The more you live with the house open the more change you will see. Air conditioning in the summer and humidifier in the winter helps maintain equilibrium.


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## redfin (Aug 7, 2014)

I did get some good news today. I spoke with a local kiln operator today and he said they have no issue doing these for me.

I'm eager to get them milled and see what the moisture is at. I planned on putting temporary treads on while we are building so even if it does take awhile to dry these we will be able to use the stairs.


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## caddguy (Aug 9, 2014)

I have lots of experience with walnut. I have used it for building tables, chairs and a really elaborate sitting system for a doctor locally.
I love working with walnut. I cut it and mill it whenever I can get the chance!
It would make awesome treads with some drawbacks. First of all, Slippage. I don't care what you finish it with, short of non-skid surfacing, those will be slick! I am sure you don't want shoes ...ie high heels etc walking on those nice surfaces, so socks and bare feet is it! Trust me when I tell you it's probably not your best choice for a tread alone
As far as fastening them down, I would slot cut the holes for movement and use tslot bolts, then fill the holes with plugs. I don't care how you cut or dry the wood you MUST allow for movement!! Quartersawn wood be best, with riftsawn next best. Keep in mind Walnut doesn't fleck or Ray like White oak and such, so your really doing it for dimensional stability and unless these are big sticks its probably not worth the effort. Of course you could still put the wood in and apply carpet runners to each one for fall protection and noise reduction.
Hope that helps!
~Dave


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## redfin (Aug 10, 2014)

Is there any adhesive I could use instead of bolting that would allow for enough movement.


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## Grey (Aug 10, 2014)

redfin said:


> Is there any adhesive I could use instead of bolting that would allow for enough movement.


Nope. Design for movement. I like the bolts in slotted holes idea above. I use the same for attaching tops to trestle style tables. Works great.


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## PheasantHunter (Aug 10, 2014)

Sawyer Rob said:


> Just so you know, you will NEVER stop that wood from moving, no matter what finish you put on it, or how you apply it, but a good finish will slow the movement down...
> 
> SR


I completely agree, movement happens no matter what type of finish or drying method (air or kiln). Air dried walnut ALWAYS looks better to me. You don't need the holes to be elongated very much and 1/8" will probably do it (assuming the treads are 12" or less in width).


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## redfin (Aug 10, 2014)

Thanks for helping me, I appreciate very much the help you all have given. Maybe I wiill just use a stardard lag and open up the hole farther than the shank of the lag.

Even with a washer in 3/8" plate I should be able to keep the underside of the treads looking fairly flush. 

Here's another question for you engineering heads. At the bottom of the 6" square tube I'm planning on using a 2' x 2' square base of 3/8" plate to weld the 6" tubing to. My plans are to relieve the 5/8" decking and shim the plate flush with the final height of the decking so my flooring will ride on top of the plate and I will trim around the 6" tubing of the stairs.

My thoughts are to double the floor joists and block with 4x4 under the decking. I plan on through bolting the 2x2 plate through the two double floor joists. The movement I'm trying to combat is the side to side loading of the staircase. I'm not really to concerned with front to back, if you understand what I mean. 

The top of the "backbone" will be lagged to the lam beam crossing the opening. You think this will be sufficient?


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## woodchuck357 (Aug 11, 2014)

I have no experience with using a single stair support. Always in pairs for stairs similar to yours. Just guessing, I think you would need some angle bracing at the top and bottom unless the stairs were quite narrow. Without it the strain will be at the welds attaching the tube to the plates may lead to failure of the join. I would make the plate and the bracing 3/4 the width of the stairs.


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## redfin (Aug 13, 2014)

Angle bracing at the top should be fairly easy to conceal. The bottom may be a tad more difficult. At 24 inches the base plate will be shy of 3/4 width. With a root pass and a finish weld I believe we should be good. The stair treads are 36" wide.

I'm going to have the man mill these soon. I'll get some pics up.


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## redfin (Jan 6, 2015)

Its been awhile but I finally got my walnut to the kiln today. I ended up with 80bf of 16/12.


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## Greenland South (Jan 6, 2015)

What's the white stuff?


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## blades (Jan 7, 2015)

with the water on the floor i guessing it is snow


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## redfin (Jan 7, 2015)

Greenland South said:


> What's the white stuff?


I had just unloaded from the trailer. Really crappy day to be picking these up.


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## betterbuilt (Jan 7, 2015)

Awesome. Have you got any of the welding done? I have a curved set of walnut treads to do in the spring. I still haven't located wide enough walnut for it. I may end up gluing them up.


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## redfin (Jan 7, 2015)

I have not done any work with the steel. I'm waiting on the cad for the exact joist locations. My steel supplier is going to drill and bevel for the 82* bolts.


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## showrguy (Jan 7, 2015)

john, 
why the steel, and not all wood/walnut ??
are you going for a mixed contemporary look ??
i have 1 or 2 sets of temporary stairs from when i built my place your welcome to use if ya like.........100X better than ladders...


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## redfin (Jan 7, 2015)

showrguy said:


> john,
> why the steel, and not all wood/walnut ??
> are you going for a mixed contemporary look ??
> i have 1 or 2 sets of temporary stairs from when i built my place your welcome to use if ya like.........100X better than ladders...



Metal fab is another of my hobbies Chuck. If these come out like I can see them in my noodle it should look dang good. Well at least to me.


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## redfin (Jan 14, 2015)

I made some progress on what I'm calling the "backbone" this week. I'm waiting for my 3/8 plate for the treads and then it will be complete sans walnut.


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## betterbuilt (Jan 14, 2015)

Looks Great!


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## redfin (Jan 14, 2015)

Thank you. My steel guy said he would have the plate sheared and drilled by Friday. Im kind of in a corner with these, our house is to be set Monday and they need these done. We had our house built by a modular manufacturer. Its coming in 7 blocks. We are still over what we wanted to spend but it was cheaper than on site stick built.


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## Yellowbeard (Jan 14, 2015)

redfin, I am really glad you asked this, because my wife (who is an architect) and I are thinking about building soon and I want to do something VERY similar in our house. Any chance you can post pictures of how you end up attaching the wood and then let us know what happens?

Thanks!


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## Yellowbeard (Jan 14, 2015)

On that note, while I have some walnut air drying (curious why air drying looks better than kiln?), it's 2-3" thick and will need a year or two before it's done (according to what I have heard as rule of thumb for air drying). I also should have some white oak (which many of you know, I guess) and thought about using that. Thoughts? Very similar application.


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## redfin (Jan 14, 2015)

The kiln operator told me my slabs will sit outside under roof for about 3 months then he will put them in the kiln. He said he will be looking for 8 to 10% when they come out. I will show pics of how I attach.


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## betterbuilt (Jan 14, 2015)

redfin said:


> Thank you. My steel guy said he would have the plate sheared and drilled by Friday. Im kind of in a corner with these, our house is to be set Monday and they need these done. We had our house built by a modular manufacturer. Its coming in 7 blocks. We are still over what we wanted to spend but it was cheaper than on site stick built.


Kinda tight schedule. Isn't it always that way. You still have a few days. relax. It always works out in the end.


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## redfin (Jan 14, 2015)

Yeah your right. I have one more big cherry to take down before Saturday when they start staging all the blocks. It kind of funny, I have plenty of chainsaws but at the moment the biggest runner is an 026.

My 288 is at Randy's getting angry, I sold my 660 last week and ordered a 661, I raped parts off my 044 to finish my buddies saw and my 261 I took the jug off to port! Apparently I don't have enough saws


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## Marklambert61 (Jan 22, 2015)

If you laminate the treads they will be stable and cheaper. There is really no need to use a 3" slab of Walnut for each tread.


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## betterbuilt (Jan 22, 2015)

Marklambert61 said:


> If you laminate the treads they will be stable and cheaper. There is really no need to use a 3" slab of Walnut for each tread.


Only if time has no value. If I was glueing them it would be much more expensive.


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## redfin (Jan 22, 2015)

Marklambert61 said:


> If you laminate the treads they will be stable and cheaper. There is really no need to use a 3" slab of Walnut for each tread.



I do believe the slabs will look good when I'm finished.

I got the blocking done under the floor joists today. I'm using .75" 82* flat head bolts to bolt the bottom plate to the floor. All my steel was to be done this week but ve yet to hear from him.


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## redfin (Jan 27, 2015)

I'm just about finished with the steel fab. The first pic shows the slots I had milled for the screws to ride in for the treads.


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## betterbuilt (Jan 27, 2015)

Nice. awesome job. Looks freaking heavy. I hope your not setting that alone.


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## redfin (Jan 27, 2015)

Thanks. The steel will be at 750lbs. I won't be setting it by myself.


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## 4x4American (Jan 27, 2015)

Two things from me:
1. Hardwood boards that have pith in them are more likely to check, from what I understand.
2. Are these going to the basement? (will they be on the concrete?)


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## redfin (Jan 28, 2015)

This is between the first and second floor. Why?


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## betterbuilt (Jan 28, 2015)

I have been doing this long enough to know that wood is gonna do, what it's gonna do. Usually it has a tell. This board for instance. The log had a large crack right where this thing cracked
. I wasn't surprised. I've yet to have a walnut board that showed no crack, to crack on me. Other types of wood that's a different story, but walnut is pretty easy going. Even if a crack did show up. I'd just add a butterfly or cut it down the crack, and joint it, and glue it back together. 
Redfin had his boards kiln dried and I would expect that to show any issues. Being mindful of those issues is on Redfin. I'm sure this staircase will end up being beautiful.


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## 4x4American (Jan 28, 2015)

redfin said:


> This is between the first and second floor. Why?


Just seems like a lot of weight, especially in a modular. I'm not sure how your modular is slapped together but I would check with the builders to see if it'll support that much weight for the rest of it's natural born life. I'm no expert on this stuff, just playing the devil's advocate.


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## pete_86 (Jan 28, 2015)

I do construction, hard to comment not knowing exactly joist locations and etc. Are they actual solid joists and not engineered beams? If you have a basement underneath, guessing you would in PA, it'd be pretty easy to modify as long as any plumbing or more of an issue duct work is nearby. The best scenario is to have your bottom plate run perpendicular to pick up more than one joists. Also is staircase near end of joists or in center depending on house layout? Ends of joists equals less sag.

IMO, the easiest way of beefing up would be sister and double or even triple the joists on landing area, nailed in a fashion similar to header or beam building so they act as one. Than install perpendicular bracing or blocking inbetween them and a few other single joists to help spread the load across multiple joists. 

All of this is much easier to do at the factory while floor is framed obviously. What's your weight estimate with the treads on? 2500-3k? I didn't take time to count treads. That's a heck of alot of weight and if you could I'd suggest making the bottom plate a bit longer to pick up more than one or two joists depending on joists spacing. Hard to comment not seeing house and ooking at a table, but with landing on ends of joists, I'd recommend 12 OC near landing and doubled joists and picking up atleast three joists with load so your 20" plate needs to be bit longer I'd say.

Easiest way, if you aren't finishing basement or could drywall around/ box in some trim to a beam in basemment would be to use a triple 2x12 nailed and glued beam style in basement with two floor jacks supporting beam. Make beam long enough to support atleast two joists and sister some 2x12 3' long to(2 per) joists to help actually eliminating the joists from taking weight. Basically blocking leading to beam than to jacks. May look out of place, but even with finished basement some creativeity to blend it all in. Maybe build a built in with custom cabinets or shelves depending on room use to hide it all. 

Hope this helps, bit winded here but awful hard to give sound advice without seeing house.


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## pete_86 (Jan 28, 2015)

Also, my beam sizes are suggestions, refer to a load table and size there. Proper nailing and glue up. I wouldn't worry about side to side twisting as you mentioned your LB is plenty strong if bolted properly to upper stair plate. Your stairs are sort of like putting a hot tub in a house. Not an issue spread out over large area, but that small 20" area or so is a problem. I am more into the construction aspect, could you take pics of what you end up doing to brace flooring? With my idea for jacks you're sending load right to basement floor. May need big plate of steel under jacks to not stress basement slab, a 4" slab without much rebar in this area is stressing it too. You're getting into 8" thick footer territory with those loads.

Think about deck piers, some large decks have 12-15" bases at pier bottom and 6-8" thick and than a 6-8" colum leading to top depending on post size. This is also due to soil conditions. Last deck I did a wrap around had, 15" bell bottoms and 10" tops 48" deep, 6" gravel under bottoms.

I'd just cut a 1x1' square in floor, gravel, 8" thick, and rebar. I didn't rebar my piers other than scraps tossed in bottoms diagonally just to use them up as I did one pour. The above is all easy to do on a pre existing slab. Sounds over kill to some, but keep in mind not the weight a main issue but the small footprint of weight. Similar to installing an auto lift on a 4" slab. You're non typical stairs will need some non typical building changes.


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## redfin (Jan 28, 2015)

There are two double 10" joists the bottom rests on and a double lam at the top. The edge of the plate is 6" away from my poured wall.

After its bolted in place Im putting a block pier under the joists that rest on a footer.

I didn't want a basement its just a 50" crawl space.


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## redfin (Jan 28, 2015)

We had bids to stick build. They were out of reach so I took our plans to several modular manufacturers. Only one said they could do it.


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## pete_86 (Jan 28, 2015)

Very nice! The block pier should take any excessive weight off the joists! I posted not quite knowing if you had any plans in mind, but didn't doubt you did and for anyone looking into this idea. Seems many people, like the water beds from the past and now the hot tubs want to put them on inadequate decks or floors not really knowing whats needed.

I like the shed roof, not many houses like that and gives a nice modern look. What type of roofing and siding are you going with? Doing metal route like many these days?

I want to build someday in near future and am thinking smaller size house w/ big shop and board and batten siding and asphalt roof. Although metal is quick and easy, good resell. I just like looks of architetcual shingles a lot. I've got a big airless sprayer to restain the board and batten every 5 -10 yrs. Every things a trade off I guess, hardy board still not popular around here due to painting and costs. Still lot of upper end houses in vinyl. I don't mind it, if installed properly. 

Keep pics coming if you're able to, many guys like this sort of stuff.


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## redfin (Jan 28, 2015)

The roof will be shingles. The walls will be a mostly viynl for now. I'm doing a poly deck on the front entrance and I am going to use the same for a detail on the front corner of the second floor. 

There was a big diiference in price between metal and shingles because metal would have had to be done on site where now a lot of the roof came with shingles from the factory. It was cool watching them drop some of the finished boxes in place.


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## redfin (Jan 28, 2015)




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## 4x4American (Jan 28, 2015)

Great looking place! Glad Pete could offer all that good info.


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## showrguy (Jan 28, 2015)

pete_86 said:


> Very nice! The block pier should take any excessive weight off the joists! I posted not quite knowing if you had any plans in mind, but didn't doubt you did and for anyone looking into this idea. Seems many people, like the water beds from the past and now the hot tubs want to put them on inadequate decks or floors not really knowing whats needed.
> 
> I like the shed roof, not many houses like that and gives a nice modern look. What type of roofing and siding are you going with? Doing metal route like many these days?
> 
> ...


you don't just re-stain every couple of years..
it needs powerwashed and scrubbed to get all the grime outa the surface pores........don't seem like much when yer young, but it get's old as the years tick on.....
i used stained (from the factory) semplank, (sort of the same as hardy board/plank) when i built, most people tell me i'm full of **** when i tell em "it ain't wood, it's concrete"..
john was at my place last spring for the pa. gtg, i don't know if he paid attention to what it was or not..
comes with a 50 year warantee..
i've been here 13 years and have'nt had to touch it.......no grime.....no fading...


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## redfin (Jan 28, 2015)

You do have a beautiful house Chuck. I was to absorbed with saws that day to really pay attention but I do like your fassad. I am going to use concrete panels in the rear under my patio area for where I build in my grill.


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## showrguy (Jan 28, 2015)

redfin said:


> You do have a beautiful house Chuck. I was to absorbed with saws that day to really pay attention but I do like your fassad. I am going to use concrete panels in the rear under my patio area for where I build in my grill.


thanks john,
yea, we had alot of saw stuff going on that day..
now that i see your home design i can see why you wanted to incorporate the steel and wood in the same venue........

i DO THINK though, that yer gonna be kikkin yersalf in the ass for not puting a basement under it though ............!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
hope to see ya at this years gtg event................


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## TheOldBiker (Jan 29, 2015)

John, if it's not too late, the type of bolt you were asking about is known as a flat head. They can be countersunk into the material for a flat finish, and generally have a recessed hex (Allen key) opening. Nice looking house design there, and the stairway should be a real center piece.


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## redfin (Jan 29, 2015)

showrguy said:


> thanks john,
> yea, we had alot of saw stuff going on that day..
> now that i see your home design i can see why you wanted to incorporate the steel and wood in the same venue........
> 
> ...



You are probably the 20th person to tell me we should have done a basement haha. Ill be there this year Chuck.


TheOldBiker said:


> John, if it's not too late, the type of bolt you were asking about is known as a flat head. They can be countersunk into the material for a flat finish, and generally have a recessed hex (Allen key) opening. Nice looking house design there, and the stairway should be a real center piece.



Yep, I got .75" flat heads from fastenal. Pricey little buggers.


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## Sawyer Rob (Jan 29, 2015)

redfin said:


> You are probably the 20th person to tell me we should have done a basement haha.



Make it 21 now!

Going to a full basement over a crawl space is some of the BEST spent money in builting a house!

SR


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## 4x4American (Jan 29, 2015)

22. Having a basment gives us excavation guys more business!


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## redfin (Jan 29, 2015)

4x4American said:


> 22. Having a basment gives us excavation guys more business!


That's why I bought a hoe, I don't like paying for something I can do myself.


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## 4x4American (Jan 29, 2015)

You gotta hoe and didn't dig a basement!


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## redfin (Feb 1, 2015)

4x4American said:


> You gotta hoe and didn't dig a basement!



You are spot on. I get the thought of why not just dig an extra couple feet, pour the walls and contcrete and have a basement. Meh, I still have an area that is below ground, that could possibly have moisture issues and I would still have to provide easement out of to pass code.

We added enough storage for what we need into the house as it is. The house we are in is large enough that if I fill our new house I have to much crap. 

I finished welding the 3/8" plate this weekend. I used a length of 5" C-channel clamped at both ends of the plate with a .25" dowel in the center to pull the plate up while I welded. After it cooled I removed the channel and the stair plate relaxed back to plumb.

I should have some more pics this week after the drywall in the stair opening is finished and the stair supports are in place.


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## PheasantHunter (Feb 3, 2015)

Yellowbeard said:


> On that note, while I have some walnut air drying (curious why air drying looks better than kiln?), it's 2-3" thick and will need a year or two before it's done (according to what I have heard as rule of thumb for air drying). I also should have some white oak (which many of you know, I guess) and thought about using that. Thoughts? Very similar application.



Yellowbeard, kiln dried walnut tends to have a "gray" color to it and not "pop" as much with finish. I don't know any other wood that shows a difference (there may be many). I used to be part of a large woodturners club before I moved. You could tell bowls that were made with kilned dried lumber versus air dried from across the room.


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## pete_86 (Feb 16, 2015)

redfin said:


> You are spot on. I get the thought of why not just dig an extra couple feet, pour the walls and contcrete and have a basement. Meh, I still have an area that is below ground, that could possibly have moisture issues and I would still have to provide easement out of to pass code.
> 
> We added enough storage for what we need into the house as it is. The house we are in is large enough that if I fill our new house I have to much crap.
> 
> ...



Yeah, basements leak, at least a lot of them do. That tar a lot of guys put on washes away after a while or a poor const footer drain clogs, usually a long while but def not a permanent fix. Flexible membrane is only way to go IMO and it just adds to cost. I've excavated house to install the membrane, do some crack repairing, all new drain tile made of solid PVC piping w/ clean out areas along runs. Previous builder had corrugated drain tile, no gravel for fill, and could barely tell evidence of tar coating. DONT FORGET RADON GAS! LOL. 

One thing, atleast you can still access the bottom of house to fix a pipe or run a new elec line in the future. Sucks having everything buried in a concrete slab. 

When I build I'm thinking no basement, but the idea of one is nice for the mechanicals so they're not in the garage, closet, or an attic.

Where's your furnace, attic? Biggest pet peeve I have if anyone cares, split level houses with basements that leak or moisture issues. Still no room for mechanicals and maintenance access and your bedrooms are in moldy areas.

Nice house pics! Glad to hear stairs are coming along


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## redfin (Feb 16, 2015)

pete_86 said:


> Where's your furnace, attic?


Air handler for heat pump and hot water heater are in a room off the garage. Finished all welding and priming of the steel today. Hopefully be able to take them to the house this week.

Got my 400a base and panels set this week. Its inspected and now waiting on power co to set transformer.


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## redfin (Feb 16, 2015)




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## cedarheaven (Feb 26, 2015)

Sikkens...


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## kimosawboy (Feb 27, 2015)

Redfin... That backbone looks great , can't wait to see the finished product.

Cedarheaven..Whats your board and Sikkens have to do with anything?


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## cedarheaven (Feb 27, 2015)

I was attempting to show how well the product "Sikkens" works to bring out the contrast of all species.


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## redfin (Feb 27, 2015)

cedarheaven said:


> I was attempting to show how well the product "Sikkens" works to bring out the contrast of all species.



I have yet to look into any finish product yet. Why do you recommend this?


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## cedarheaven (Feb 28, 2015)

Sikkens is a preservative product which penetrates into the wood fibers rather than coating the piece with a varnish that will eventually yellow.


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## 4x4American (Feb 28, 2015)

what do you think about boiled linseed oil?


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## kimosawboy (Feb 28, 2015)

If you are finishing your walnut steps, pass on the sikkens and unless you are living in the 1800's skip the BLO. In this day and age there are numerous finishes that penetrate and provide protection for you wood, just do your homework and dont forget about the slip factor someone mentioned earlier.
G Vavra


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## cedarheaven (Feb 28, 2015)

You want the water/melted snow or whatever moisture to bead up on the surface of the hardwood (Black Walnut). I have used Black Walnut from the orchards here in Los Molinas, CA, for over 35 years, listening to your application of the walnut with outdoor use I still recommend the Sikkens...


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## redfin (Feb 28, 2015)

These will not be used outdoors. They are between my first and second floor.


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## anlrolfe (Feb 28, 2015)

Try tung oil.

Its a nut oil that hards better that linseed oil. If you or anyone that maybe in close contact has food allergies this may not be the best choice.


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## 4x4American (Feb 28, 2015)

I use the BLO for tool handles I like it


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## 4x4American (Feb 28, 2015)

It also tastes great on salads


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## betterbuilt (Mar 1, 2015)

Tung oil and Boiled linseed oil are good the the purity is more important. I've had clients that put linseed oil on their barns and then complain that it turns gray. I've always wondered why people recommended it. I recently found a local guy thats making his own linseed oil and he says the problem is the stuff you buy in the store is full of proteins and it goes rancid. There is no regulation on the proteins in the oil and can still be called pure. I have a jug of pure tung oil that has separated and it is more full protein. I'm still experimenting with the purified linseed oil, but it's pretty nice so far. I wouldn't consider it a finish though. I'll post some pictures of that jug of oil later so you can see the proteins. 

Edit: The one on the right is the purified linseed oil. The one on the right is the Pure Tung oil.


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## cedarheaven (Mar 7, 2015)

Heating up the Linseed Oil helps the fiber's (spring wood) absorb into the Walnut faster and at an even rate as not to discolor the wood from over saturating the piece. Whether or not you are using the Black Walnut for interior or exterior applications, a final coat over the Linseed or other preservative should have the effects like a varnish that's why again I suggest Sikkens. The Walnut growers who have gun-stock wood drying are now using Sikkens to protect the ends while air drying as it prevents any air & moisture from entering when stacked. The light (spring growth ring) is more absorbent than the denser darker (summer growth ring) which can cause an unevenness when staining. I don't advise staining Walnut as it contains some of the best grains in it's natural form...


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## Dbuckshot (Apr 4, 2015)

Sorry I'm new to this or any forums and have not been working wood very long but I've used a product called Pentacryl to make cookies for clocks.I've done about 70 cookies and have had only 4 crack and that was from not letting them soak long enough. May be you could brush it on after being milled then let dry slowly. My cookies only took 4weeks to dry.(10"circle x 1 to 2"thick)


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## redfin (Apr 25, 2015)

Its been awhile and my stress of whether the cad and my fab work was correct is done. My buddy and I placed the backbone today. I have less than 1/8" from plumb in all planes.

I can easily make up for these discrepencies by shimming my walnut slabs. I have been stressing about these stairs for awhile.


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## Grey (Apr 25, 2015)

Looking great! 
For your project, I would definitely finish it with *Waterlox* (tung oil based): This stuff is absolutely beautiful on any wood, floors, furniture, etc. and extremely water and wear resistant and really highlights the color and grain of the wood. http://www.waterlox.com/products-it...penetrating-tung-oil-floor-sealer-finish.aspx I'll see you at the PA GTG.


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## redfin (Jun 6, 2015)

Nothing new to report on the walnut other than I got my temporary treads on. I still need to throw the toe kicks on and some type of handrail to pass inspection. We are closing on our current house on the 30th of this month. I'm just about wrapped up with punch list to start moving things over here.


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## redfin (Jun 6, 2015)




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## redfin (Jun 6, 2015)

The contractor bid 750 for my garage steps which I thought was ridiculous. This is what I did today. I used the leftover poly decking from my front entrance. All the other lumber was left from the garage framing.


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## Grey (Jun 6, 2015)

Great work.


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