# sawing a snipe



## forestryworks (Dec 18, 2008)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2uVPp6mg74

at 6:18 this guy puts a snipe in the face of a doug fir... 
for those that are still wondering what a snipe is, maybe this will help you out

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## Rookie1 (Dec 18, 2008)

And I thought snipe was a bird.


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## forestryworks (Dec 18, 2008)

Rookie1 said:


> And I thought snipe was a bird.



lol, good ol' snipe hunting... i actually had some female cousins that were 17 and thought snipe hunting was a real deal... they were from the city and it took them awhile to come back out of the woods


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## Rookie1 (Dec 18, 2008)

HaHa Nice video. Its cool in black and white.


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## Jacob J. (Dec 18, 2008)

If you watch it in high quality you'll see why Super 8 is desirable.


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## Nuzzy (Dec 18, 2008)

Awesome vid!


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## ShoerFast (Dec 18, 2008)

Very enjoyable vid!  

It also shows why wrap handles are nice on slopes, but he did not always turn the saw to use it.


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## forestryworks (Dec 19, 2008)

i liked the faller's shirt, too... i know a good friend of mine that would be tickled to death to get one of those for christmas


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## Burvol (Dec 19, 2008)

Maybe I'm wrong, but in my crowd that's called a "kicker" or a "slipper" cut. A snipe is a small angled piece out of the top that will aid with no-barberchairing and pulling woood in the case of a shallower face from top to bottom on a low stump. Things differ from region to region, but that is a kicker, not a snipe here.


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## Gologit (Dec 19, 2008)

Burvol said:


> Maybe I'm wrong, but in my crowd that's called a "kicker" or a "slipper" cut. A snipe is a small angled piece out of the top that will aid with no-barberchairing and pulling woood in the case of a shallower face from top to bottom on a low stump. Things differ from region to region, but that is a kicker, not a snipe here.



I think you're right. There's a lot of difference in the terminology as you go from place to place. We had a yarder and crew down here from Washington a couple of years ago and we spent the first week finding a common language. We finally just said "There's the wood...get it". And they did.

LOL...I told a new log truck driver the other day to put a on G-string before he left the landing...I think he thought I was some kind of pervert. We finally settled on calling it a strip chain...but he still has his doubts.


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## Burvol (Dec 19, 2008)

Rip it off the stump quick down hill, leave hooked up as long as possible with a step (raised back cut) and the sap sawn a bit when throwing trees uphill. This aids in saving the timber out.


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## Tree Sling'r (Dec 19, 2008)

Call that a snipe down here, use it a lot to get the butts of the trees to hit first to save wood when the tree is up above a swell in the ground or a road bank. Use it frequently on the coast in the redwoods.


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## Burvol (Dec 19, 2008)

Slinger, so what do you guys call cutting an angle on stumps in your strip and putting the wedge up on them or some big limbs to save the wood from breaking (slabbing the sides out or breaking) and kicking into lead? Never really was sure what that is called. I like watching the debris fly when they go into lead.


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## 056 kid (Dec 19, 2008)

i would call that a third face. The abrupt angle created by this face is what seperates the wood. A snipe would commit flat with the butt log, a good one anyway.


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## 056 kid (Dec 19, 2008)

Did you guys see the end!! "[email protected]@@CCCCC&&K" "he must have had her sit back in him"!! funny stuff.


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## skinnykid02 (Dec 29, 2008)

I now know why but, why cut a "snipe"? why not cut a notch that is wider instead of cutting a notch and then cutting again.

I really have no idea why the pros do it, I am trying to learn.


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## 2dogs (Dec 29, 2008)

skinnykid02 said:


> I now know why but, why cut a "snipe"? why not cut a notch that is wider instead of cutting a notch and then cutting again.
> 
> I really have no idea why the pros do it, I am trying to learn.



Read Sling'r's post.


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## gavin (Dec 29, 2008)

skinnykid02 said:


> I now know why but, why cut a "snipe"? why not cut a notch that is wider instead of cutting a notch and then cutting again.
> 
> I really have no idea why the pros do it, I am trying to learn.



as slinger said its to make the butt hit first. usually use it when falling in steep ground or uphill. helps the tree settle.

here in b.c. we call it a swanson undercut, and you can do it two ways (as you said): a humbolt with a snipe, or a very "open" humbolt (1:1 depth to opening). does the same thing, but doing the humbolt with the snipe takes less cutting.


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## hammerlogging (Dec 29, 2008)

(coming not from humbolt lands) it seems like it has to pop it off from the hinge sooner witht the more closed notch, and yet prompt the butt to slide off the stump more readily, for the butt first falling, to save wood. It would stay stuck to the hinge through the whole fall with an open face.


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## Metals406 (Dec 29, 2008)

Up in these parts, we call a 'snipe', the uneven wood that's left on the butt log from facing and back-cut.

Regional logging slang is confusing!


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## skinnykid02 (Dec 29, 2008)

gavin said:


> as slinger said its to make the butt hit first. usually use it when falling in steep ground or uphill. helps the tree settle.
> 
> here in b.c. we call it a swanson undercut, and you can do it two ways (as you said): a humbolt with a snipe, or a very "open" humbolt (1:1 depth to opening). does the same thing, but doing the humbolt with the snipe takes less cutting.



thanks


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## Tree Sling'r (Dec 29, 2008)

Burvol said:


> Slinger, so what do you guys call cutting an angle on stumps in your strip and putting the wedge up on them or some big limbs to save the wood from breaking (slabbing the sides out or breaking) and kicking into lead? Never really was sure what that is called. I like watching the debris fly when they go into lead.



I would call that, not being sure about your undercut...hehe.
No honestley, I have gone out and sawed corners off stumps - sometimes it has worked and others not.
I normally gun my stuff a little down hill, even on flat ground, many times the tops will hit, kick the middle and the butt of the tree into lead. That way nothing is ever a direct hit, there is always momentum moving the tree into lead. Don't know if that makes any sense at all.


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## Metals406 (Dec 29, 2008)

Tree Sling'r said:


> I would call that, not being sure about your undercut...hehe.
> No honestley, I have gone out and sawed corners off stumps - sometimes it has worked and others not.
> I normally gun my stuff a little down hill, even on flat ground, many times the tops will hit, kick the middle and the butt of the tree into lead. That way nothing is ever a direct hit, there is always momentum moving the tree into lead. Don't know if that makes any sense at all.



Sling'r, could you explain 'bringing the tree into lead'?


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## Tree Sling'r (Dec 29, 2008)

Metals406 said:


> Slin'r, could you explain 'bringing the tree into lead'?



Having all your wood going the same direction, nothing crossed up. A good lead makes production for the logger much better and gives the faller a good reputation.


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## Metals406 (Dec 29, 2008)

Tree Sling'r said:


> Having all your wood going the same direction, nothing crossed up. A good lead makes production for the logger much better and gives the faller a good reputation.



Okay, that's what I was thinking at first... But then I thought it had something to do with the notch? 

Again with the different regional terms... We called it 'layout'... Kinda like a framer laying out the studs in a wall.

An example would be, "boy, them fallers sure laid-out nice!" And I agree, the hooking crew hates a bad lead. We also always referred to a bad lead as:
1) Lazy fallers
2) Allergic to wedges
3) A pile of pick-up sticks... Don't know if you remember that game?







Hooking tops always sucked, and I remember a couple times, it was downright deadly dangerous!


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## Burvol (Dec 30, 2008)

Tree Sling'r said:


> I would call that, not being sure about your undercut...hehe.
> No honestley, I have gone out and sawed corners off stumps - sometimes it has worked and others not.
> I normally gun my stuff a little down hill, even on flat ground, many times the tops will hit, kick the middle and the butt of the tree into lead. That way nothing is ever a direct hit, there is always momentum moving the tree into lead. Don't know if that makes any sense at all.



I get paid $12 hr to just cut stuff down and let the shovels sort it out, much like the above picture. Just kidding. Sure it makes sense, that's how you cut timber. Quartering on highlead ground, it's real easy to do. I have used that stump cut in the past to save some nice timber on flat ground, stuff with two 36's or 40's that have a bushel and half or so in the two logs. When it presents it'self as an option that I need to look at for whatever the reason maybe with damn nice wood, I might use the cut. When it's between the first and second buck, it can be a good option, or waste of time I guess.


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## Burvol (Dec 30, 2008)

I've finished more than one or two strips that were abandoned...er, guys fired. I even finished a piece that a guy cut a tiny, skinny ass corridor all the way to the top on some super steep long highlead ground, and cut nothing else, did not bring up the hillside with it. THEN, once he was at the top, he started his strip from the top down, back into the bottom of this hell hole.


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## forestryworks (Dec 30, 2008)

Burvol said:


> I've finished more than one or two strips that were abandoned...er, guys fired. I even finished a piece that a guy cut a tiny, skinny ass corridor all the way to the top on some super steep long highlead ground, and cut nothing else, did not bring up the hillside with it. THEN, once he was at the top, he started his strip from the top down, back into the bottom of this hell hole.



i've always been under the impression that most strips are started from the bottom and work your way up... makes the hike in and out easier near the end.

in colorado when i cut... the guy made me start at the top... i see the point of gettin' roadside trees and hazards done and removed near the top, but at the end of the day after 12 hours, it was a long hike back to the truck packing the stuff out


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## Bushler (Dec 30, 2008)

God lord! The reason for starting at the bottom is to keep your loose logs BELOW you.


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## Burvol (Dec 30, 2008)

Bushler said:


> God lord! The reason for starting at the bottom is to keep your loose logs BELOW you.



Logs, loose stuff hanging, ect. That's one major reason why the guy got canned, he was retarted. Hookin' stuff that was cut backwards would be a nightmere as well.


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## Burvol (Dec 30, 2008)

forestryworks said:


> i've always been under the impression that most strips are started from the bottom and work your way up... makes the hike in and out easier near the end.
> 
> in colorado when i cut... the guy made me start at the top... i see the point of gettin' roadside trees and hazards done and removed near the top, but at the end of the day after 12 hours, it was a long hike back to the truck packing the stuff out



You should have told him that he was full of BS and 12 hours of cutting (especially on steep ground) is not safe, and there might be a problem with production.


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## Metals406 (Dec 30, 2008)

Bushler said:


> God lord! The reason for starting at the bottom is to keep your loose logs BELOW you.



Exactly! It also helps with 'lead' or layout. We yarded from the top down, so the logs were layered to suit a top to bottom setup. I got to mark corridors with our lead faller a couple times. He always left trees at the road/landing for us to cut. It allowed us to pick what trees to high-stump so the processor could deck downhill side against them.

The lead fallers name was Danny... He is awesome with a saw. I begged him to apprentice as a faller, but he talked me out'a working in the woods all together. He knew I was a newlywed, and told me there was no future in it. His biggest points were danger, no retirement, and the greenies eventually shutting loggers out'a the woods. Danny's dad (who started the company) was also killed in a D7 a few years before. He was clearing the roads of snow, got a little side grade on one of the roads, and rolled 1,100 feet. It even had fresh grousers welded to the tracks... But they're worthless sideways.

My cousin John was a faller for 25 years... Until a crappy yarder operator dropped a Maki Carriage on his back--on a log deck. I wanted to cut with John too, but with the accident, it never came to fruition.

These don't make a good backpack.  :taped:


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## Metals406 (Dec 30, 2008)

Burvol said:


> Logs, loose stuff hanging, ect. That's one major reason why the guy got canned, he was retarted. Hookin' stuff that was cut backwards would be a nightmere as well.



It did suck when it was cut wrong! And slowed production.



Burvol said:


> You should have told him that he was full of BS and 12 hours of cutting (especially on steep ground) is not safe, and there might be a problem with production.



Our fallers did 6 hours a day, three days a week. I always assumed that was the industry standard? 

If they were good, they would always be at least 4 sets ahead of us... But we had a father son team that had to work many the Saturday to stay ahead of us.


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## Burvol (Dec 30, 2008)

I'm sorry to hear about your cousin, but what was he doing? I don't trust anyone out there. I don't even trust my Dad who's one of the best. Stuff happens, you have to protect yourself in the woods, that's your job to do.


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## Burvol (Dec 30, 2008)

5 days a week, 7 hours a day is standard here. Somedays I'll go 7.5.


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## Metals406 (Dec 30, 2008)

Burvol said:


> I'm sorry to hear about your cousin, but what was he doing? I don't trust anyone out there. I don't even trust my Dad who's one of the best. Stuff happens, you have to protect yourself in the woods, that's your job to do.



It happened to John about 9 years ago, he's pretty much healed up now, but it ended his logging career for good. He was on a log deck bumping knots, with his back to the yarder... The operator was inexperienced, and quite frankly, a huge [email protected] He swung the boom to Johns side, with the Maki at the top of the boom... He jumped out'a the yarder, and didn't set the break. As he jumped out, the Maki came down. John never saw it coming. Besides crushing injuries, two choker mice entered his butt, and came out the front of his thigh.  That carriage was chit'n and get'n. 



Burvol said:


> 5 days a week, 7 hours a day is standard here. Somedays I'll go 7.5.



Man, that'll keep a guy hungry at lunch!


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## Burvol (Dec 30, 2008)

Metals406 said:


> It happened to John about 9 years ago, he's pretty much healed up now, but it ended his logging career for good. He was on a log deck bumping knots, with his back to the yarder... The operator was inexperienced, and quite frankly, a huge [email protected] He swung the boom to Johns side, with the Maki at the top of the boom... He jumped out'a the yarder, and didn't set the break. As he jumped out, the Maki came down. John never saw it coming. Besides crushing injuries, two choker mice entered his butt, and came out the front of his thigh.  That carriage was chit'n and get'n.
> 
> 
> Man, that'll keep a guy hungry at lunch!



Sorry to hear about that. Sounds extremely painful. 

I usually just pack a bannana and power bar or something like that for lunch. I don't like to stop and eat, or eat a whole bunch, it slows me down and breaks a good rythym.


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## Metals406 (Dec 30, 2008)

Burvol said:


> Sorry to hear about that. Sounds extremely painful.
> 
> I usually just pack a bannana and power bar or something like that for lunch. I don't like to stop and eat, or eat a whole bunch, it slows me down and breaks a good rythym.



I'm the same way... Often times, I don't eat lunch at all. 

But eating a quick bite in between trees is a good idea... You burn a lot of energy in the woods. I'm 6'-4" and around 220 pounds... I've always been in real good shape, but my first month in the woods, I lost 20 pounds. Lean and mean.


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## forestryworks (Dec 30, 2008)

Burvol said:


> You should have told him that he was full of BS and 12 hours of cutting (especially on steep ground) is not safe, and there might be a problem with production.



i did. i told him i quit. he didn't pay time and a half either and wanted ppl workin' more than 40hrs/week.


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## Metals406 (Dec 30, 2008)

forestryworks said:


> i did. i told him i quit. he didn't pay time and a half either and wanted ppl workin' more than 40hrs/week.



Good for you!.. He sounds like my old boss, no concern for anyone but himself... Wanted as much money as he could get, at everyones expense, so he could buy a new hopped-up snowcat every year.:censored:


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## forestryworks (Dec 30, 2008)

Metals, sorry to hear about your cousin... glad he's better.


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## Metals406 (Dec 30, 2008)

forestryworks said:


> Metals, sorry to hear about your cousin... glad he's better.



Thanks... All I gotta say is, it's dangerous work. When you roll out'a the crummy at 6:00 A.M. and strap on your caulks... You prepare yourself for bad stuff that could happen, but you don't dwell on it. Eye's in the back of your head kind'a deal.

If I had 10 buck for every tree that broke loose from the landing, and chased me down the hill, or yarding next to the sawyer's, and they try to drop a tree on your forehead, or... Heck, it's just dangerous work.

It's like fishing in Alaska... Ya gotta accept the job, and leave your van-gyna at the door.


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## 056 kid (Dec 30, 2008)

mmm, cant function with out lunch. Usually a can of Boyardee's best!!


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