# Rescue on Spikes



## scubadude1188 (Nov 13, 2008)

What would be the rescue procedure for someone hurt on spikes in a tree?

Thanks,
Scubadude


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## Bermie (Nov 13, 2008)

Pretty much the same as any other rescue with a couple of exceptions.

If they are working just off a flipline and choked safety you have to rig a pulley over their heads, to get a 'lift' or at least a higher purchase so you can relieve their weight on their spikes, get the spikes out of the tree and to have something to lower them and yourself down off.
You should also remove their spikes if they are unconscious so they don't get hung up on the way down.

I'm sure you'll get a few more variations on this theme!

Makes you think about how you attach yourself when working a pole on spikes to facilitate the possibility of a rescue!


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## TimberMcPherson (Nov 16, 2008)

To try to get above someone who in injured in spikes is going to be very differcult for a number of reasons. Its unlikely to be achievable in good time with only one other person.

First the rescuer has to get passed them to get above them to set up a lowering point. 

Second, with the nature of how accidents can occur on spikes theres a good chance the person is very jammed up with the flipline and possible ending up with their legs at odd angles.

Third as mentioned by Bermie, hes in spikes and the rescuer is in all likelyhood to be in spikes as well, something likely to cause further injury to victim or hurt rescuers some time in the rescue and lowering process. These may need to be removed at some point to complete the rescue safely.

Even with a line above, releasing the pressure of the flipline could be very differcult unless you have another person available with a winch, GRCS, vehcile or enough pull power to take the gravity weight off climber. And its not like you can just cut your average flipline. 

If its not possible to release the flipline then you may have to get a strop around the victim and cut him free of his harness to get him down, I would think cutting one of the side "D"s free would be easiest. 

All in all its a rescue that offers alot of challenges and I have spent a little time thinking about without definative answers. All trees, environments and falls and injuries are different.

Its one of those cases where a very good knife or very good use of a silky MAY be needed.


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## Bermie (Nov 16, 2008)

Some good points there...
I've only done a pole top spike rescue in training and it WAS difficult and that was with a 'co-operative' live 'victim'. As you said, getting above to set the strop and pulley was interesting. Cutting the wirecore flipline was part of the deal, and a point was made to always have somewhere in your flipline setup that could be cut with a knife.


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## brisawyer (Nov 16, 2008)

All of the above sound good.We discussed this @ work a while back. First choice would be a ladder/bucket truck. If no truck acess set an anchor raise a rescuer with a mechanichal advantage. Clip pt into your systerm have ground crew haul on your line to unload his or use a pickoff strap. Cut/remove any of pt's gear that interferes,lower.


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## Mike Van (Nov 16, 2008)

I can't speak for treework, but as a retired lineman [35 years power co.] this is something we practiced once a year. Our person to be rescued was 99% sure to be unconscious, more than likely his heart was stopped from an electrical contact. You had 4 minutes before brain damage started from lack of blood to the brain. I used to argue at the training sessions to call for help FIRST, before attemping rescue. This was finally added before I retired. All our trucks had 2 ways, you need to get more help on the scene, sometimes first responders are only minutes away. Our climber was to have a 1/2" handline up there, if not you had to take it up with you. One & a half wraps around the crossarm [or something as strong] under the victims armpits, 3 half hitches in the front, get whatever slack you could out & unhook or cut his saftey strap. You lowered him yourself. Our 'victim' was essentially dead, unless you could get him down for cpr. You didn't worry about his hooks, etc. In the course of all this, you didn't want to become a victim yourself, but time was important. In my 35 years, I thank God I never had to do it 'for real', nor have it done on me.


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## davej (Dec 9, 2008)

So...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-0V_mumflM


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## squad143 (Dec 9, 2008)

What a retard company. Any training evolution should be done with a safety "in case" something goes wrong.


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## Rftreeman (Dec 9, 2008)

squad143 said:


> What a retard company. Any training evolution should be done with a safety "in case" something goes wrong.


then it would be real training, it's obvious the mistake that the guy made, he didn't tie in to the lowering device but I'll bet he will next time.


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## treeslayer (Dec 9, 2008)

Rftreeman said:


> then it would be real training, it's obvious the mistake that the guy made, he didn't tie in to the lowering device but I'll bet he will next time.



  

and he was allowed to learn this the hard way? where was the training supervisor? 

I'd fire whoever watched him do it wrong. Inexcusable.


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## Rftreeman (Dec 9, 2008)

treeslayer said:


> and he was allowed to learn this the hard way? where was the training supervisor?
> 
> I'd fire whoever watched him do it wrong. Inexcusable.


they most likely weren't expecting him to fall also, when we did training like this unless the trainee was making a mistake that would hurt them we didn't say anything until they killed the dummy, you learn by your mistakes.......next time he'll get it right.......


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## treeslayer (Dec 9, 2008)

Rftreeman said:


> they most likely weren't expecting him to fall also, when we did training like this *unless the trainee was making a mistake that would hurt them *we didn't say anything until they killed the dummy, you learn by your mistakes.......next time he'll get it right.......



I'm just not seeing your perspective. This guy could have been KILLED.

falling is not allowed.

and you're right about one thing, he learned something that day, for sure.


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## Rftreeman (Dec 9, 2008)

treeslayer said:


> I'm just not seeing your perspective.


don't feel bad, you're not the only one who doesn't..........


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## Rftreeman (Dec 9, 2008)

treeslayer said:


> where was the training supervisor?


on the ground yelling "you better get that rope"............


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## treeslayer (Dec 10, 2008)

Rftreeman said:


> on the ground yelling "you better get that rope"............




        

No doubt.


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## davej (Dec 10, 2008)

Yeah, if the rescuer goes up the pole alone with no groundsman... what would they do?

Also what do these guys use as a safety line? That lanyard is almost useless.


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## davej (Dec 10, 2008)

TreeCo said:


> I was talking about during training only. It can't be a good day at training school when someone takes a head dive off of a pole like in the video.



Ok, I'll vote for that, but what if the rescuer is indeed alone? He goes up with a false crotch and a rope which he has tied off to the base of the pole?


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## Mike Van (Dec 10, 2008)

Dave, if this were a 2 man crew, the victim [dummy] should have had a 1/2 handline up there with him. If not, the rescuer would have to take it. If it's a roller handline, the rescuer has to seperate it, get 1 1/2 turns around the crossarm [or if there's no arm, something that will hold the weight of the victim] The lose end goes under the victims armpits, 3 half hitches in the front & cut his belt. The rescuer controls the victims decent just with the friction of the rope around the crossarm. It works, we used to do it. I watched the video about 6 times, what I saw - There's a fall protection device on the poletop, why it wasn't hooked to the climber, I don't know. I feel the climber was too high for what he had to do, his safety strap was out too far, making his a** stick out too far too. A bad position to have your hooks, as they're at an angle to the pole, rather than more up/down. When the dummy fell, the rescuer lunged forward [to try what? catch the dummy?] The result of the forward lunge, was his hook [already at a bad angle] cutout of the pole, and gravity took over.


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## Rftreeman (Dec 10, 2008)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-0V_mumflM

I can clearly see the mistake made here but I would have never thought it would have pulled the guy down..........he had hold of the wrong side of the rope, he was suppose to hold the other end that was wrapped around the pole, look carefully and you'll see......at first I thought he was suppose to be hooked to the pulley system but after watching a few other videos I changed my opinion on the matter....


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## ohio03trdtaco (Dec 10, 2008)

You can see the rope slipping threw his hands then he gets a grip. After he gets a hold of the rope again it sucks him inward to the pole. And once you get strait with the pole your are going down. The the bad thing is he had to slid down that pole, his strap would just keep him sucked in to it. Also didn't help he had bad body position to begin with.


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## davej (Dec 10, 2008)

Oh, so this guy had everything necessary, he just didn't hang onto the correct part of the rope? The (apparent) single wrap around the pole would be enough?


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## ohio03trdtaco (Dec 10, 2008)

Yep everything was there he was just in a hurry or not paying attention. He wasn't ready for the weight of the dummy to transfer when he cut the pole strap.


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## mudguts (Dec 10, 2008)

davej said:


> Oh, so this guy had everything necessary, he just didn't hang onto the correct part of the rope? The (apparent) single wrap around the pole would be enough?


Yep, one rap around the pole is plenty, as long as you don't cross the load line that is attached to the rescuee.


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## (WLL) (Dec 10, 2008)

was he on belay, and his back-up was unprepared?:jawdrop:


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## Rftreeman (Dec 11, 2008)

(WLL) said:


> was he on belay, and his back-up was unprepared?:jawdrop:


no belay and no backup, it has to be as it would be in a real life situation as it would be with a two man crew.

here's a clip of the right way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoU4FTDf_Wo


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## (WLL) (Dec 11, 2008)

Rftreeman said:


> no belay and no backup, it has to be as it would be in a real life situation as it would be with a two man crew.
> 
> here's a clip of the right way.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoU4FTDf_Wo


why not put the lanyard around the pole first than run up. dud looked slow and unstable and could have hurt himself going up. very amateurs spike climber imo. glad he made it. thanx 4 the vid.


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## Rftreeman (Dec 11, 2008)

(WLL) said:


> why not put the lanyard around the pole first than run up. dud looked slow and unstable and could have hurt himself going up. very amateurs spike climber imo. glad he made it. thanx 4 the vid.


I would assume that linemen are like tree guys, some do it this way and some that way.....I'm not a lineman, I just browsed youtube for a vid that showed someone getting it right for a comparison to the other clip.


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## blewgrass (Dec 11, 2008)

*high angle rescue*

if anyone is truly serious about rescues involving scenarios arborists might find themselves in a high angle rescue class is great. i had to take a high angle class in college that focused on everything from anchor systems to belay escapes to climber pick-offs. everything was rock climbing oriented, but easily translates to any other profession that involves working at heights.

there are great ways to access an incapacitated person at heights and safely lower them, they usually take more to learn than an internet chat room can offer however. there are some great books on the subject and you'd be amazed at what you don't know about rigging once you read some of them. 

searches for high angle rescue or tower rescue classes and books are a great start.


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