# Felling direction, part 2



## scotchguy (Dec 26, 2005)

Hello again and a very merry Christmas to you all.

I have a bit of time off work and would like to tackle this big tree I asked about some time ago. If you search you will find the previous thread called "felling direction".

Having thought about your advice and read some other stuff I don't think this should be a particularly difficult job. I went out and bought three Stihl wedges but when I came to start I realized that none of the stuff I have read told me just how many wedges I should be using for a job. I have therefore posted some pictures of the tree with the 064, 30" bar at the bottom to provide some scale.

So, how many wedges should I be thinking of using to knock this thing over. I have used the method discussed on the previous thread to estimate the height at 63 feet. The stem is at least 40 inches thick at a comfortable working height, possibly more.

Any advice, most gratefully accepted.

All the best, Ronnie.


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## smokechase II (Dec 26, 2005)

Scotchguy:
Three wedges are generally considered either the minimum or just right if properly sized for their intended work.
What is the length of your wedges?
The height?
Are you going to drop that tree with the lean?
If dropping it in the same direction it is leaning, then actually one wedge is *"probably"* all you need. It may be just inserted as an insurance policy at that.
{Why is the tree coming down and who created the other stumps nearby?}


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## Redbull (Dec 26, 2005)

I was also wondering why you were taking it down? It's a beautiful tree. What's the scoop. 
It's hard to give advice unless we know what direction you're felling the tree.


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## scotchguy (Dec 27, 2005)

The view in picture 1 is a good representation of the lean and the weight distribution which is away from and to the right of the camera. Ideally I would like to fall it almost directly away from the camera. We are probably looking at falling it 30 degrees from the lean which is only very slight.

There are a couple of reasons for taking it down. We are in Glasgow Scotland which is further north than Hudson Bay. The tree therefore robs us of a lot of light which is in short supply up here. It is also about 30 feet from the house and may get blown over if it gets much bigger. The previous owner made poor choices of species for a suburban garden. Finally, the bit of land where it will fall is having another house built on it. If we don't take it down now it will have to be taken down in sections by a climber which will be exensive. I created all the other stumps. I've taken down 50 trees and it has made an infinite improvement to the environment round the house. There is no shortage of wild landscape in Scotland where there are few people outside the few cities.

So, I'm thinking that I probably need some extra wedges, probable another 3.


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## gumneck (Dec 27, 2005)

With all that space. No wedges, notch it aiming for that stump, done.

Keep in mind I'm a hack.


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## smokechase II (Dec 27, 2005)

There is the possibility that if you're only 30 degrees off of the lean that you can do nicely with 2 wedges. One directly perpendicular to the face and the other off-set to the side that it is actually leaning. This second wedge is the one that'll push the tree (opposite) toward the desired direction of fall. Drive it harder than the first, especially at the end.
With the solid wood you've got to work with I'd suggest that holding wood will be a greater influence than wedging. {Although it appears that either would work on this tree.} Leaving a slightly wider holding wood strip on the side you're talking the tree toward is usually very effective. You'll probably find that your tree will go toward the greater holding wood and not the faced direction. So don't leave too much on that side and then force things with a wedge.
Be aware that there was a link posted somewhere here about 5 weeks back that had a prominent safety guy/organization stating that he/they thought using holding wood this way was unsafe. Many of us disagree but you might want to search for that thread.
Thinking about a deciduous tree for a little sunlight in those nasty winters up north? I went through Glasgow once on the way to Loch Ness. Right cold, up there it was. Late November.


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## woodfarmer (Dec 27, 2005)

*leaner*

i read your previous post also, i wouldn't think that you will be able to move the direction of fall very much with wedges, if it has to go very far i would recommend winching the tree in the direction needed, if your going to fall toward the lean one wedge should be sufficient, btw i have a friend in Greenock and i agree you need as much sunshine as you can get. cheers


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## Ryan Willock (Dec 27, 2005)

I vary my holding wood all the time. I do so to compensate for side lean in trees, you have to learn through experaince how much to hold and how much to cut. You ought to get a copy of D. Douglas Dent's Professional Timber Falling, as he discusses this topic at length.


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## jp hallman (Dec 27, 2005)

smokechase II said:


> There is the possibility that if you're only 30 degrees off of the lean that you can do nicely with 2 wedges. One directly perpendicular to the face and the other off-set to the side that it is actually leaning. This second wedge is the one that'll push the tree (opposite) toward the desired direction of fall. Drive it harder than the first, especially at the end.
> With the solid wood you've got to work with I'd suggest that holding wood will be a greater influence than wedging. {Although it appears that either would work on this tree.} Leaving a slightly wider holding wood strip on the side you're talking the tree toward is usually very effective. You'll probably find that your tree will go toward the greater holding wood and not the faced direction. So don't leave too much on that side and then force things with a wedge.
> Be aware that there was a link posted somewhere here about 5 weeks back that had a prominent safety guy/organization stating that he/they thought using holding wood this way was unsafe. Many of us disagree but you might want to search for that thread.
> Thinking about a deciduous tree for a little sunlight in those nasty winters up north? I went through Glasgow once on the way to Loch Ness. Right cold, up there it was. Late November.



This sounds like good advice. While you're researching be sure to read-up on "dutchman" in the face cut. Spent a few weeks in Holy Lock floating around with a Trident and a dry dock. We weren't allowed onshore...sigh, saw Scotland but couldn't touch. I do remember it being colder than a well diggers backside.


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## scotchguy (Dec 28, 2005)

It's not as cold as Boston where I spent 6 winters. I could not face another new england winter. In Scotland it's damp, grey and windy which makes it feel worse than it is. Having said that, we have had a dry frosty spell of late, although it rarely goes much below freezing. Basically a "dank" climate as we say.

Gumneck ... you would get on well with my dad who seems to think the force of his will can move a leaning tree towards his notch!!!!!

As i've said before ... we had some wild times climing unstable trees to get a wire rope attached to winch it over and free the saw trapped in the falling cut!!!!!!!!!!


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## ross_scott (Dec 29, 2005)

this is the way I would do it if it were me. I would cut the scarf (kiwi term for notch) then make a quarter cut at the back of the tree(heaviest side) knock in my first wedge then do the final quarter cut stopping to knock the wedge in further from time to time as soon as you see the top of the tree starting to go then give the wedge a good hard bang with your deadblow hammer if it does not go over then stick in the second wedge to finish it off. I was taught this felling technique from a guy who has 17 years in forestry.


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## Ross Turner (Dec 29, 2005)

Scotch guy if your not sure find someone who is as our industry is the 5th most dangerous in the country.
I don`t want to see you in the HSE accidents report for2005-2006.
You dont say what NPTC qualifications you have?


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## scotchguy (Dec 29, 2005)

Thanks for your concern Ross. I am very safety concious. The reason I am asking these questions is that I need to fall theis tree spot on in position. The reason for this is that there is a dry stone wall and the silver birtch that you can see in the pictures. I don't want to damage either. I think that worst that could happen is that wall would get trashed.

I shared a house with a professional climber who used to take down those truely huge trees with limbs spreading across million dollar houses in Boston. I've heard all the stories, ranging from attack by mad nesting squirrels to the madman who thought he could pull a huge maple agains the lean with his pickup truck. Incase you wonder, the tree went with its lean and the truck was launched as if from a catapult.

If tree work is the 5th most dangerous industry, what is the most dangerous? It's definitely not fire fighter, possibly fishing or window cleaning?


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## Ross Turner (Dec 29, 2005)

i would get your house mate to do the job if he is skilled.
Safe felling.


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## gumneck (Dec 29, 2005)

scotchguy said:


> Gumneck ... you would get on well with my dad who seems to think the force of his will can move a leaning tree towards his notch!!!!!



I like your dad already. Your dad and I would drop that tree with mind power alone and then go have a pint....er maybe a quart! Remember, I concluded my recommendation with the "I'm a hack" disclaimer. 

Seriously though, based on your picture in view 1 and your statement here:

"We are probably looking at falling it 30 degrees from the *lean which is only very slight*."

it doesn't look 3 wedge worthy. If your concerned, a pull line and notch it correctly is your safest method as others have mentioned. For me, If I were that concerned I would spike up it and remove weight from the lean side. If you dont have the gear than that's another issue.

I think the more time you spend trying to knock in wedges, cut here, guarter cut there the more danger you put yourself in. Those are moves left to experienced fallers and you should be sure your capable of doing so.


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## scotchguy (Dec 29, 2005)

Hi Gumneck, I guess I must be a hack too. You've just summed up my approach. I just climb the tree and remove all the branches except in the direction I want it to fall. It's a feasible method for an amature who has all day to work on a single tree. It also does not require any wedges. I guess I've become lazy in my old age because I thought there were too many branches on this tree and I thought wedges would be easy.

Between you and me, you don't need spikes or ropes for a tree like that. I weight 140 pounds and can climb a rope hand over hand without using my feet. Once up there I can hang by one hand using the overhand saw with the other. The only drawback of my wiry build is that the 064 tires me out and requires a lot of concentration to use.

Anyway, regarding this tree ... the weather has colose in on me. Snow arrived witht the promise of 80 mph winds tomorrow.

Thanks to everyone for the advice. I think my plan is to use my tried and trusted method. I'll remove some branches, attach a rope just incase I need to pull it over, then try those wedges I bought.

I've already discovered how useful the wedges are for bucking and close trimming stumps. This sight is has clued me in to quite a bit.


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## smokechase II (Dec 29, 2005)

Scotchguy:
Pictures can be deceptive.
I don't see a lot of lean, but then again neither photo has a plumb bob in it beside the stem. If two of those photos were taken at right angles with a plumb, then a remote viewer can say with some certainty.
I don't think 30 degrees off of lean in a tree that isn't a heavy leaner and has solid wood is a big deal. Provided you pay attention to holding wood.
You're doing the right thing, asking advice. Just sort the wheat from the chaff.
I've stated this before, the way to learn is book first then from an experienced teacher in the field. So if you can find a local with experience, but then again.....
Get 'er done.
Photos posted promptly please.


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## tam (Feb 25, 2006)

BIG UP THE WINDOW CLEANERS!!!!!!


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## treemendous (Feb 26, 2006)

*falling tree*

If a new house will be built will it have an excavated foundation.
If so use the excavator to grub the rear side and push it over where you want.
This way the stump is pulled up and the machine helps with all the other mess.

Fastest way on my property to remove the stump. We did many 3-5 ft Douglas fir trees with this method. Takes 1/4 machine time than digging out the stump.


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## lumberjackau (Feb 28, 2006)

*stump removal*

I have to agree with treemendous, it is much easier to remove the stump with the tree attached. I drove a skidder for a number of years and have built miles of roads for the road trains, it was always easier to use the tree weight to help remove the root sytem, trying to pluck stumps out with the blade or grapple was hard on the machine and time consuming.


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## wradman (Mar 1, 2006)

*felling*



scotchguy said:


> Hello again and a very merry Christmas to you all.
> 
> I have a bit of time off work and would like to tackle this big tree I asked about some time ago. If you search you will find the previous thread called "felling direction".
> 
> ...


i wiil try to send some pics of a burnt tree i fell maybee the stump pics will help,you could leave a little more holding wood than this but it will give you an idea what the stump should look like 
(ps if you buy my plane ticket i will come fall it for free lol)


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## tam (Mar 12, 2006)

that's a big old gub. but big up the husky! old school y'all!


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