# Chip truck



## Tom Dunlap (Sep 2, 2002)

Well it's time to consider a new chip truck. First I'd like to find out what might be working for other arbos.

I have a Vermeer 1230 and will probably always have a chipper this heavy or larger. How do one ton trucks hold
up? It seems to me that by the time the truck is full that would be a pretty heavy load. Add the chipper and it
seems a little too heavy for the tranny/brakes. What are users finding?

With the amount of gear that I have I think it makes more sense to go up to the next chassis size. A truck with
a 10-11 foot chip box and a man cab looks like a more ideal setup. What kind of GVW do you folks have in your
chip trucks?

I might try to find a chassis in town and then buy the man box and dump. Any leads on companies that part out
chip trucks?

Can anyone recommend a dealer, either bricks or clicks? There aren't any tree specialist truck dealers in the
Twin Cities. I've looked through "Tree and Landscape Equipment Trader" Any other magazines I should look in?

Thanks,

Tom


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## treeclimber165 (Sep 2, 2002)

When I was at Davey (R/C, not line clearance) we used F-450 deisels and pulled a Vermeer 1250 or BB 200XP. These were way overloaded when full and the chip box wasn't big enough. No place for gear, either. As popular as the new/used F-450/F-550 trucks are, a used F-700 would be in the same price range (or cheaper) and lots more capacity. 

Check out TCI. I've seen many ads for trucks and truck bodies in there. 
Southco makes nice bodies, quite expensive new though. One guy I climb for has a used '96 GMC Topkick with a Southco body, excellent truck. He paid $12,500. (26,000 miles- line clearance truck)


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## rbtree (Sep 2, 2002)

Tom,

Why the mancab?

I shopped the whole country, via Treetrader, to find an L box design, which gave me about three yards more dump space, and still plenty of storage. One thing to note, though, most trucks have shorter under chipbox storage than mine. However, there are more mancab setups available, so better deals can be found. And, I'm sure you do more % pruning than us, so chip production is less.

I wouldn't go with anything less than a asplundh style chip dump, ie, a 2-2.5 ton chassis. GVW rating 18-22K. Pulling a fully loaded truck and 5600 lb chipper requires power and good suspension.

Is your chipper diesel? If so, I'd suggest a diesel truck for convenience when fueling, but mainly for durability, pulling power, and fuel efficiency. 

$18-24K is a reasonable amount to pay for a 1991-96 truck, gone over and painted to your choice. $8K-14k if you get a fixer.


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## rbtree (Sep 2, 2002)

Tom,

call Coast to Coast Tree Equipment at 800 786 5008 to get a cheap subscription. I dont subscribe or i'd look in it for ya....


Lots of individual classifieds as well as used/new dealer ads


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## John Paul Sanborn (Sep 7, 2002)

Are you getting rid of the bus? Now that's a dump with room for the driver!

As I said on the ISA board, I think cabover would serve your needs well, 'specialy in your neighborhood.

Non CDL size with auto-trans will increase the number of helpers able to drive it for you. 

Diesel vs gas, if you do not regularly drive long distances so a diesel can heat to nominal operating temps, then you loose all the advantages of that engine, including its long life.

What is you dumping situation these days? maybe a bigger box would be better since you lost the nursery storage/dumping site.

I do like the Asplundh storage setup, lotsa little boxes all over the box.


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## Frans (Sep 8, 2002)

Been driving diesels for years and never heard of the temp. being an issue. Should I let my diesel run as much as possible? Usually I shut it down if I am stopped for a few minutes.

Frans


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## Tom Dunlap (Sep 8, 2002)

A number of years ago I read about a study that was done by an engineering institute that studied engine wear on diesel engines. Their conclusion was that unless the weather was really cold there was less wear by shutting the engine down instead of idling. Many mechanics will tell you that the best way to warm up an engine is to go through the normal startup and then drive the engine to bring it up to temp. This is better than letting the engine just idle for several minutes. Driving just a little slower than normal might be prudent on super cold days.

I've never heard anything about getting the engine up to temp or not gaining the value of the diesel. It does make sense that you want to have the engine warm for optimum performance. 

Letting any engine cool down and return to a "normal" temp makes good sense. I looked at a grapple loader truck one time that had temp gauges mounted on each cylinder head. The owner would let the engine idle before shutdown until the temp had leveled to some degree. That made good sense. Another thing that showed me was that this guy took good care of his equipment. Didn't buy the truck for other reasons though.

Tom


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## John Paul Sanborn (Sep 8, 2002)

The biggest reasons for using a diesel are power, longevity and fuel economy.

they way a diesel works is that the fuel is compressed in the hot firing chamber till it detonates. Hence the need for glowplugs till it heats up.

So if you dont get to optimal temp befor shut down you will not have the same power or efficiency of burn.

I remeber reading this in Car Talk a few years ago when a person was asking whether to get a gas or diesel truck, could not find the article in their archives http://cartalk.cars.com/Tools/search.pl


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## treeclimber165 (Sep 8, 2002)

Good point, John. But a truck with a properly working thermostat will be at operating temps within 5-10 minutes. By the time you get out of the yard and get to the corner 7-11 for coffee/sodas/snacks, the truck should be at operating temp. If not, you can let it run while you go in the store. 

I've driven lots of diesels as well as gas work trucks. Diesels are noisier, smellier and sometimes slower. But they last longer and usually have more pulling torque. They use a lot less fuel and seem to hold their value better than gas also.


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## Acer (Sep 14, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Tom Dunlap _
> *A number of years ago I read about a study that was done by an engineering institute that studied engine wear on diesel engines. Their conclusion was that unless the weather was really cold there was less wear by shutting the engine down instead of idling. Many mechanics will tell you that the best way to warm up an engine is to go through the normal startup and then drive the engine to bring it up to temp. This is better than letting the engine just idle for several minutes. *



That's spot on. Before taking up the tree work, I graduated in Mechanical Engineering, and used to be able to do all the sums that tell you that letting the engine warm up at idle will cause more wear than driving off straight away. At idle, there will be some metal to metal contact, certainly in the main bearings, whereas at driving speed, conditions are right for hydrodynamic lubrication, where enough pressure is generated in the lubricant to separate bearing and journal. The only time I let my truck warm up at idle is when it's cold enough to need the demister for the windscreen. If I don't warm up, the windscreen ices over 50 yds down the road.

As well as the fuel economy, diesels are far more reliable than petrol (altho when they go wrong you're in trouble). Most breakdowns in petrol engines are due to ignition system problems - probably more so in damp climates. Of course, diesels don't have an ignition system. In a diesel, if the fuel lines and pump are sound, there'll be no problems.

Tip: 2 essential maintenance items are:-

1/ Change oil regularly, as exhaust products foul this up quickly. Every 6 months is the rule for mine.

2/ Check the water trap in the fuel line regularly. The moving parts of the fuel pump are lubricated by the fuel - once water gets into the pump, lubrication ceases. Diesel fuel pumps cost big $/£/euros/.

One other thing: I can't see how a petrol engine would be more efficient for shorter journeys unless you live in a place that's always warm. In winter, when I used to drive petrol cars, you would need full choke for the first 10-15 minutes of the journey, which is wasteful and kicks out higher levels of harmful emissions.


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## Toddppm (Sep 14, 2002)

I've been looking for my manual since I saw this thread for my new Isuzu diesel and can't find it I remember reading in it that if you let it idle too long it can actually cool too much and damage the motor. Maybe had something to do with the turbo? Also said something about after running for a while let it idle for a couple minutes just to let the turbo cool down.


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## bwalker (Sep 15, 2002)

> remember reading in it that if you let it idle too long it can actually cool too much and damage the motor


This is true. If you allow a diesel to idle to long the engine cools to the point of not atomising and burning all the fuel injected in to the cylinder. This unburnt fuel washes the oil of the cylinder walls and dilutes the crank case oil. Many diesels have high idle devices to solve this problem. I installed one in my dodge diesel last winter and it worked like a charm. Truck warmed up in 5 minutes of idleing at 15000 rpm.


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## rbtree (Sep 15, 2002)

Interesting, but I've heard that truckers in locations like Fairbanks, Ak, leave their trucks idling all winter. I warm up my chipper at a high idle, 1500 rpm or so, it still takes ~10 minutes to get to 130 degrees!

I dont think it is good to start chipping big stuff when it is under that temp, am I wrong?


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## bwalker (Sep 15, 2002)

> Interesting, but I've heard that truckers in locations like Fairbanks, Ak, leave their trucks idling all winter.


They use high idle devices.


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## bwalker (Sep 15, 2002)

Roger, What model of diesel engine do you have on nyour chipper?


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## bwalker (Sep 15, 2002)

4bta is the same engine I have in my truck less 2 cylinders so a high idle device is available for your engine.5 minutes of high idle is enough to warm the engine up. If the chipper has a hydraulic system(i dont really know squat about chippers) I would start out with some smaller limbs first to warm it up a bit. It really just common sense. obviously you dont want to load something to the max before it is up to operating temps.


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## DDM (Sep 15, 2002)

As far as Gas V/S Diesel I have a 90 F-350 Diesel and a 91 F-350 Gas Plus a few more But anyway Going the same distance Loaded about the weight the Gas engine will Drink 3 Times as much Fuel. We Filled up both trucks one morning last week And drove both trucks 22 miles one way The diesel was pulling the Skidsteer Loader and came back loaded with logs as well the gas truck went over empty and came back basicall loaded with pine straw and a few short logs Immediately filled both trucks back up the Diesel burned 3 gallons of fuel and the Gas burned 9.5 with hardly any load So Guess whats getting Replaced? The theory of letting a diesel Idle before shutdown is Important if the engine is equipped with a Turbo to let the oil in the turbo cool to save life on the bearings.


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## treeclimber165 (Sep 19, 2002)

Here is a pic of Don's chip truck. He just bought it a couple months ago for $12,500. Gas engine, 26K miles. Gets about 8-10 MPG. I really like all the available storage, and extra seating for the crew without everyone piling into the cab all hot and sweaty.


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## Jumper (Sep 19, 2002)

*Yup*



> _Originally posted by rbtree _
> *Interesting, but I've heard that truckers in locations like Fairbanks, Ak, leave their trucks idling all winter*



We used to do the same on exercise in Alberta, Labrador and Alaska as well when in the field. Once you shut a diesel(or gasser beyond -40F/C) it is next to impossible to get it started unless you tow it to a garage. so they stayed running for two or three weeks at a time. In Alert 400 kms from the north pole we use nothing but JP8 turbine fuel in the universally diesel fleet, which enables it to operate to -60C and beyond-even "arctic diesel" will gel at that temperature.


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## bwalker (Sep 19, 2002)

> we use nothing but JP8 turbine fuel


Jumper,When using jp8 did you notice increases of pump failure? JP8 has almost no lubricity.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Sep 19, 2002)

Tom, post a picture of the bus!


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## treeclimber165 (Sep 19, 2002)

*Bus?*

okaaaaaayyyyyyyyy......
Do you drive a big bus, or does someone else come pick you up in a short bus?


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