# HF Chain Grinder Thread



## Philbert (Dec 13, 2014)

The purpose of this thread is to discuss pros and cons, tips and techniques, hacks and mods, for using the inexpensive ($30 - $60), plastic body, saw chain grinders, such as the type sold by Harbor Freight ('HF'), on eBay, etc.

**** This thread is NOT to tell people to learn how to file, or to buy a $300 grinder.****
_(If you want to do that, please go start your own thread)_​
I don't want to be a grinder snob. I own and use a more expensive grinder, and have walked past these many times, being critical of them based on appearance, etc., without trying one. A few members have posted that they get satisfactory results with these. So, when one became available on the 'Xmas Giving' thread, I decided to give it a fair trial (_Thank You!_).

Please post your personal experiences with these types of grinders, regardless of brand or model. Especially, any tips that might help others get better results. Maybe we can have some fun with this, like the $30 Earthquake chainsaw thread!

Philbert


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## Philbert (Dec 13, 2014)

*Some Related A.S. Threads*

Threads with related HF Grinder content (some are pretty old!):
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/hf-grinder-user-report.34915/
http://www.arboristsite.com/communi...-with-the-harbor-freight-chain-grinder.79249/
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/harbor-freight-sharpener.236602/
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/harbor-freight-electric-chainsaw-sharpener.195472/

* Note: other threads exist for _other_ types and brands of chain grinders.*

Oregon 511A, 511AX, and similar Italian grinders:
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/511a-grinder-improvements-tweaks.197073/
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/511ax-vise.228345/
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/511ax-grinder-help-please.253712/
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/has-anyone-used-the-oregon-511a-and-the-511ax.261521/
http://www.arboristsite.com/communi...hydraulic-assist-551462-my-head-hurts.265130/

Northern Tool and similar Chinese clones of above grinders:
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/northern-hyd-grinder-making-it-work-pics.40844/

Philbert


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## Philbert (Dec 13, 2014)

*Videos - 1*

Instruction manuals for most grinders are pretty poor. Here are some YouTube videos on using the HF type grinders. I do not endorse everything they say, but they are helpful to see how they go together, what the different parts do, and generally how they work.

Philbert

*Chicago Electric Chain Grinder* You Tube Videos*
(*with Bicycle brake lever style vice clamp)

*Setting up the Chicago Electric Chainsaw Sharpener* (funbro1 a.k.a _'How To Bob'_ 2:33)


*Sharpening a Chain Saw Chain* (funbro1 a.k.a _'How To Bob'_ 6:01)


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## Philbert (Dec 13, 2014)

*Videos - 2*

*Harbor Freight Chain Saw Sharpener* (Tool Dude Tony 5:32)


*How to Sharpen a Chain Saw with the Harbor Freight Sharpener *(Tool Dude Tony 9:45)


Disclaimers: Tony uses some interesting terminology (refers to individual cutters or teeth as 'blades'). He also grinds deeper and faster than I would - looks like he is burning cutters (appears to be chrome damage on top plates). But good demonstration of setting up the grinder and what settings and adjustments are available.

Philbert


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## Philbert (Dec 13, 2014)

*Videos - 3*

Some others show different models. I skipped some that are 25 - 50 minutes long without saying much more!

*My Chainsaw Sharpener* (wtbm123 15:39)


Lever style vise clamp model, but pretty good narrative. Confuses semi-chisel chain with 'safety chain' (reduced kickback chain).

Philbert


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## MrGiggles (Dec 13, 2014)

I've been fooling with the HF grinder that I got in a trade two years ago.. It will sharpen a chain. A file makes a better edge but the grinder get's used for really damaged chains or for truing one that's been filed poorly. Mine is the old model, without the bike brake chain holder...

Mine has some side-to-side play in the hinge. While in the down position I can push it to cut more or less off of the tooth. That's just something to keep in mind while using it.

Also, I'm not sure why, but whenever I flip the chain to grind the other side, the depth gauge gets completely out of whack.. To remedy this I will measure each tooth with a caliper and adjust it by trail and error. However, because of the play in the hinge and the depth gauge design, I have gotten tooth length variances as high as +/- 1mm. That's good enough for firewood though.


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## fearofpavement (Dec 13, 2014)

I have owned and used two different models of HF chain grinders. I will say that the bicycle brake type is pretty poor in my opinion and I think if the brake handle could be moved to be independent of the moving part of the grinder, it would work better...
The kind of HF grinder (apparently previous model) that just has a manual clamp and a little tab you move the housing with works pretty decent.
I do concur with a previous poster that when you switch the grinder from one side to the other there is poor consistency and you have to set it up for the teeth on that side of the chain. (it will grind a different angle and depth.


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## Philbert (Dec 13, 2014)

Photos of my Chicago Electric 'hand brake' model for reference.

This is the one I received in the '_Christmas Giving_' thread. I added a wood base so that I can clamp the grinder down when needed and move it. I like to grind out doors to keep the dust out of my shop.
I also noted a lot of grit embedded in the plastic post, behind the vise, even though this grinder had not been used much. So I cleaned this area and wrapped it with with a piece of aluminum duct sealing tape. This worked on other chain grinders to make clean up easier.

I went around the grinder and just snugged up any potentially loose fasteners, and already cracked the bicycle grip holder slightly. This would be an easy part to fix if it breaks further, but be careful. This is a light duty item.

Philbert



Front



Right Side



Rear



Left Side



Base


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## Philbert (Dec 13, 2014)

*Some Questions for the Experienced Users
*
- Do you dress these grinding wheels? This is an important issue with the larger grinders, to shape/profile the wheel and expose fresh abrasive. The HF Instruction Manual does not mention it. I have a dressing stone from my other grinders that I can use for this.

- Does the 1/8" wheel work on larger cutters? This is the only wheel sold for these grinders. Do they do an acceptable job on full sized 3/8 pitch chains? Do you do the larger chains in multiple passes, has anyone found or tried mounting a thicker (3/16") wheel?

- Several people have said that they 'work with' the flex in the unit to finely position the grinding head relative to the cutter. Is this standard practice?

Thanks.

Philbert


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## cobey (Dec 13, 2014)

it dont have much poop, even if a bigger stone fit, it dont pull the little one very hard.
but i used mine to fix a couple big 3/8 rocked chains. I just back the chain with my figers
away from the cutters to clean out the gullet some. i finish them with a file
it does some work I would like a real nice one some day


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## cobey (Dec 13, 2014)

I want to try some lo pro 3/8 on it i think it will work better... i did a couple nice chains, but it takes attn to detail
and starting conservitive with adjustments ... did i say attn to detail thats the key


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## cobey (Dec 13, 2014)

BTW......... good thread Philbert


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## Milkman31 (Dec 13, 2014)

Where can you get replacement wheels for these grinders at?


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## cobey (Dec 13, 2014)

Milkman31 said:


> Where can you get replacement wheels for these grinders at?


 I got one at harbor freight


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## cobey (Dec 13, 2014)

$6.00 I think


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## Wagnerwerks (Dec 13, 2014)

The number one biggest improvement I made to my HF grinder (just like yours philbert) was to make an arbor adapter to run worn out wheels from my local dealers franzen grinder. The fine grit wheel that HF sell for these burns the crap out of everything. I also cut and tacked back on the little brake holder tab to hold the chain better. 

My pap sharpened hundreds of chains from new to shot on his original orange version. It was equally crappy, but with a little care, worked fine.


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## Philbert (Dec 13, 2014)

Wagnerwerks said:


> The number one biggest improvement I made to my HF grinder (just like yours philbert) was to make an arbor adapter . . . I also cut and tacked back on the little brake holder tab to hold the chain better.



Pics?

Thanks.

Philbert


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## cobey (Dec 13, 2014)

Wagnerwerks said:


> The number one biggest improvement I made to my HF grinder (just like yours philbert) was to make an arbor adapter to run worn out wheels from my local dealers franzen grinder. The fine grit wheel that HF sell for these burns the crap out of everything. I also cut and tacked back on the little brake holder tab to hold the chain better.
> 
> My pap sharpened hundreds of chains from new to shot on his original orange version. It was equally crappy, but with a little care, worked fine.


 can you buy a better wheel for them ???


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## Wagnerwerks (Dec 14, 2014)

I'll get some... It's out in the shop... And it's dark and cold. 

As for buying them, they are too big when new. Worn out ones fit the HF unit. They are much coarser than the HF disk and don't burn the tooth.


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## Philbert (Dec 14, 2014)

cobey said:


> can you buy a better wheel for them ???


So . . . . I was wondering . . . . if these _types_ of wheels would work:


4-1/2 inch diameter, 7/8" arbor hole, metal cutting, rated for 13,000+ RPM, available in different thicknesses, and different grits, 5 for $5.49 ($1.10 each) . . . . .

Remind me of the resinoid wheels I tried in another thread http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/resinoid-grinder-wheels.256733/.
Anybody tried them on these grinders? Any concerns about using these on a 4200 RPM grinder?

_(EDIT: *** I have since learned that other, more suitable wheels are available for these grinders***)_


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## Wagnerwerks (Dec 14, 2014)

Philbert said:


> So . . . . I was wondering . . . . if these types of wheels would work:
> View attachment 386557
> 
> 4-1/2 inch diameter, 7/8" arbor hole, metal cutting, rated for 13,000+ RPM, available in different thicknesses, an different grits, 5 for $5.49 ($1.10 each) . . . . .
> ...


No.. Too thin. You might be able to get the 1/8" wheels, but I'm not sure. 

Trying to be a HF purist?  I do use those cutoff wheels a lot. They're pretty decent for the $$$


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## Philbert (Dec 14, 2014)

Wagnerwerks said:


> No.. Too thin. You might be able to get the 1/8" wheels, . .



Good catch on the thickness. It was just the first image I could grab. The idea is that these are available in multiple thickness and grits. Might be a way to mount a thicker wheel for full sized 3/8 pitch chain? Not sure if a 4-1/2 wheel will fit without wearing it down to 4-1/4". Also available in multiple brands, if quality is a concern. Any reason not to do this? Anything obvious I am overlooking?

Philbert

_(EDIT: *** I have since learned that other, more suitable wheels are available for these grinders***)_


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## Wagnerwerks (Dec 14, 2014)

I don't think you'd have an issue. The grinder wheels sharpen with the sides too, unlike the cutoff wheels. I know that doesn't matter for a good grinder, but I always "used the flex" to get consistent results on mine. 

May the flex be with you.


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## 67L36Driver (Dec 14, 2014)

I have an old model that was given to me by a local forum member when he got a new, fancy one.

Previous owner fastened a piece of angle iron to the bottom so you can chuck it in the bench vise. Simple, every work bench has a vice.

I agree that maintaining a precise angle (25 or 30 deg) is problematic. Consistent tooth length side to side also near impossible.

I don't burn wood nor do I cut wood (aside from test cuts) but I refurbish old saws. When I get them they invariably have horrible chains. Angle far out to lunch and vast difference in tooth length on the whole chain, forget side to side. Severely hooked from undersized file, ect..

I am pleased that using such a simple and inexpensive device I can make a trashed old chain cut well. Not outstanding, but acceptable.

Really the only disappointment is the lack of a thick wheel to do .404, 7/16, 1/2 and (recently) 9/16". Yikes!!! 9/16 is huge.


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## 67L36Driver (Dec 14, 2014)

Now if I could figure a way to do rakers on him instead of using my angle grinder in a by guess or by gosh manner, life would be perfect. LOL

I hate to file. Too much elbow grease for so little results.


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## Philbert (Dec 14, 2014)

67L36Driver said:


> Now if I could figure a way to do rakers on him instead of using my angle grinder in a by guess or by gosh manner, life would be perfect. LOL


One of the guys in the videos I posted does depth gauges on his.

Philbert


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## 67L36Driver (Dec 14, 2014)

Philbert said:


> One of the guys in the videos I posted does depth gauges on his.
> 
> Philbert



Dressed/shape the wheel with a diamond?

I'll make time to watch the movies.


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## Brettl (Dec 14, 2014)

I like mine for the most part. I wish it had a second adjustment for the wheel angle. I don't know the proper term, but the wheel always needs to be flatter or steeper to match the angle of bevel on the top cutter.
Have you seen how many ebay sellers are flipping these?


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## 7sleeper (Dec 14, 2014)

67L36Driver said:


> Dressed/shape the wheel with a diamond?
> 
> I'll make time to watch the movies.


In the last vid Philbert posted you can see the guy doing his rakers. Just uses the standard wheel. I have done it also as he shows.



Philbert said:


> *Some Questions for the Experienced Users
> *
> - Do you dress these grinding wheels? This is an important issue with the larger grinders, to shape/profile the wheel and expose fresh abrasive. The HF Instruction Manual does not mention it. I have a dressing stone from my other grinders that I can use for this.
> 
> ...


Hey Philbert,

Great to see you are taking the plunge onto the el cheapo side. 

I never dress my wheel. I flip it every 2-3 chains. I admit, I am only firewood guy and I donot see the grinder as the exclusive method.

I have used the standard wheel for chain up to regular 3/8. But only because the chain was severly unequal. My chain size is 1/4, 3/8 picco/hobby and regular 325. For that it works well.

I have done a two pass technique on severly rocked chain. But usually do a "bounce" type technique. I just slowly "bounce" my way to the gullet.

How do I do my setting? I put the chain into the system (have the old model with the clamp), with the turned off engine I lower the wheel into the gullet and advance the chain with the rear screw adjuster until I get a light contact. I prefer a light "scratching" contact. Recheck the height adjustment and clamp it into place for a last test and then just fire away.

As you have seen, my results are equal to brand new stihl chain, that's good enough for me for a grinder. But I usually hand file after the grind. But my friends only get the grind, have to have a slight advantage... 

7


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## 67L36Driver (Dec 14, 2014)

Philbert said:


> One of the guys in the videos I posted does depth gauges on his.
> 
> Philbert



Found it. I need to study the situation more.

I think I can dress an extra wheel to do rakers with the proper rounded leading end.


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## 67L36Driver (Dec 14, 2014)

Clean up:

Drag the whole she-bang into the laundry tub. Use hot water Simple Green and a two inch paint brush to scrub him down.

Keep the motor/winding high and dry.


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## BigDee (Dec 14, 2014)

Wagnerwerks said:


> I don't think you'd have an issue. The grinder wheels sharpen with the sides too, unlike the cutoff wheels. I know that doesn't matter for a good grinder, but I always "used the flex" to get consistent results on mine.
> 
> May the flex be with you.


Do you mean that you flex the unit to the extreme on each tooth? I try to stay completely neutral but I think working it to the limit would be even more uniform.


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## BigDee (Dec 14, 2014)

67L36Driver said:


> Now if I could figure a way to do rakers on him instead of using my angle grinder in a by guess or by gosh manner, life would be perfect. LOL
> 
> I hate to file. Too much elbow grease for so little results.



I grind the depth guages by moving them backward a millimeter or two under the wheel. It is easier than I expected. Sometimes I dress the front edge by resetting the wheel and making a second trip around without moving each cutter, just nipping the leading edge. Then I dress them with a file. Don


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## MrGiggles (Dec 14, 2014)

I usually push the wheel into the tooth taking two or three licks on each one.. "Using the flex" as it was described earlier in this thread.

I have tried using it on the rakers, but again I found it to be inconsistent. My method was setting the hinge depth to just take a hair off the raker, and slide the raker in under the wheel, grinding the top of it. I could make it grind a lot or a little depending on how I positioned the tooth. I'm probably doing it wrong through.


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## c5rulz (Dec 14, 2014)

There is certainly nothing wrong with the Tecomec full size clones as they are a great value. If your going to get a grinder, why not just step up to the $100 bench mounted full size that take standard wheels and be done with it. Granted I have not tried one of the small plastic units and have no desire to do so.

BTW, Philbert I got one of the 1/8" resinoid wheel from Bailey's the other day. I am now becoming a wheel whore.


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## Philbert (Dec 14, 2014)

c5rulz said:


> There is certainly nothing wrong with the Tecomec full size clones . . .



Not the point of this thread. This one is about what is possible with these cheap little grinders.



c5rulz said:


> BTW, Philbert I got one of the 1/8" resinoid wheel from Bailey's the other day.



I am wondering if the cut off wheels, mentioned a few posts above, would work on these grinders similar to those resinoid wheels.

Philbert

_(EDIT: *** I have since learned that other, more suitable wheels are available for these grinders***)_


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## Mastermind (Dec 14, 2014)

I had one.......

Threw it away.


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## gunrush128 (Dec 14, 2014)

Happy to see that this went to a good cause... Lots of good info here, philbert. Merry Christmas!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## c5rulz (Dec 14, 2014)

Philbert said:


> Not the point of this thread. This one is about what is possible with these cheap little grinders.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Philbert the cheap little grinders remind me of this, sure you can do it but why?





As far as the wheels, real ones are so cheap so why?


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## Philbert (Dec 14, 2014)

c5rulz said:


> Philbert the cheap little grinders remind me of this, sure you can do it but why?



It's winter. It's an inexpensive endeavor. It could be fun. It could be helpful for guys who don't want to file, but can't justify spend $100 + on a grinder. We might gain some insights on grinders, cutters, sharpening, etc. There are millions of these things out there - I might get stuck sometime/somewhere where I HAVE to use one. I can't afford to take apart brand new $1,200 saws just to screw with them, but I can risk a $30 grinder! I might find out that I have been a grinder snob. Etc.

Just a few thoughts off the top of my head. Could probably come up with a few more if I had time.

Might be that I discover just one nice situation where this thing could be handy for me. For example, in one if the referenced threads, someone commented that this motor is small enough to run off the cigarette lighter in his car with an inverter.

I don't expect this to replace my other (511A type) grinders.



c5rulz said:


> As far as the wheels, real ones are so cheap so why?



I am not so concerned with the $6 wheels ($3.29 on sale, and with a coupon) as I am trying to do full sized 3/8 pitch chain with a 1/8" wheel.

If you follow my sharpening rants, you know that I strongly advocate profiling the wheel to match the file shape, and _not_ grinding with the flat side of the wheel.

Since HF does not sell a 3/16" wheel I am looking for options.

Philbert


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## Mastermind (Dec 14, 2014)

I did manage to fix rocked chains with one of these......that's a plus.


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## Philbert (Dec 14, 2014)

Mastermind said:


> I did manage to fix rocked chains with one of these......that's a plus.


A number of people (and maybe a few primates?) have suggested that they used these to bring heavily damaged, or grossly inconsistent, cutters roughly back to shape, and followed up with filing to obtain sharpened cutting edges. That alone could be an application for some guys.

Philbert


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## shootingarts (Dec 14, 2014)

My brother had the old orange one from harbor fright. I set it up and sharpened a chain a few times. Used it gently and just held enough tension to one side to take the slack out of things. I went slow and easy and had no complaints at all about how it sharpened. The saw cut wood awhile and when it found dirt or wire clearing fencerows it was easy to return to the same grind. I never tried to measure what the grind really was.

The grinder was lost in a move, might turn up some day, might not. I used the grinder as mostly a guide for the wheel, I knew I couldn't put a lot of pressure on it. Used like that it seemed to work OK and seemed like it would last a good while. At the cost they pay for themselves in a hurry and most people should have no complaints just cutting around a home or farm or cutting a little fire wood.

If a person is heavy handed or has to sharpen saws daily they are going to either want real equipment or to find a good chain shop. My friend that had a business had a rule that any chain that touched wood that day went to the chain shop that evening. For him time saved during and after work hours was worth a lot more than the dollars spent at a chain shop and he wouldn't have sharpened his own chains on anything. Once the day's cutting was done it was beer-thirty!

Hu


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## Wagnerwerks (Dec 14, 2014)

Here is a pic of a worn franzen wheel on my grinder. I'm not taking it off, because the spacer I made was just a piece of 12g copper wire so it's not super precise and I don't want to true the wheel again. The "vice is just stamped together and holds poorly so that was pulled off and tack welded, then ground to actually fit the other rails profile. 

With a 1/8" wheel, it does a very good job for 3/8 chains. I can't tell a difference when cutting between one I sharpen and one done on the actual franzen grinder. I can tell a dif from when I file.  
The first pic is the HF grinder, second is the Nielsen 100B, third is original. The pics are terrible. 

Last pic is the clamp... You can just see the tack welds.


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## Philbert (Dec 14, 2014)

Wagnerwerks said:


> I can't tell a difference when cutting between one I sharpen and one done on the actual franzen grinder. .


Nice looking cutters in those photos. If you just posted those in a chain sharpening thread, and did not mention how you got them, I'll bet that you would get a lot of compliments!



Wagnerwerks said:


> Last pic is the clamp... You can just see the tack welds.


Looks like you tack welded the 'U' shaped part of the vise to the outside plate, next to the knob?

Thanks!

Philbert


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## Philbert (Dec 14, 2014)

OK, maybe this will bring in a little more respect, interest, and consideration?

Philbert


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## shootingarts (Dec 14, 2014)

Philbert said:


> OK, maybe this will bring in a little more respect, interest, and consideration?
> 
> Philbert
> 
> View attachment 386694



Now that is a grinder!! 

I keeps me a can of John Deere green spray bomb around for the same reason!

Hu


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## Wagnerwerks (Dec 14, 2014)

In all seriousness, if the rear hinge was drilled and bushed with real tolerances, this thing would work great... You would still have to measure cutters and reset to do the other side, but whoopty do. I bought this for 23 bucks if I remember correctly and I might have an hour in it. It would probably take me another hour to make bushings and make it even better. And,,, I had fun and save $$$. If I paid someone $5 @ to sharpen my chains, I paid for it in 5 chains. Not a bad turnaround. At the same time, if you don't fart with it a little bit, you can chew up a good chain quick. This same thinking can also justify a decent grinder.


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## Philbert (Dec 14, 2014)

Wagnerwerks said:


> At the same time, if you don't fart with it a little bit, you can chew up a good chain quick.



I have seen chains chewed up pretty well on much more expensive grinders too!

Philbert


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## Wagnerwerks (Dec 14, 2014)

Philbert said:


> Nice looking cutters in those photos. If you just posted those in a chain sharpening thread, and did not mention how you got them, I'll bet that you would get a lot of compliments!
> 
> 
> Looks like you tack welded the 'U' shaped part of the vise to the outside plate, next to the knob?
> ...


The inside of the rectangle on the outer side it's just pressed together. It was crappy. 

One thing I need to learn is how to set rakers. I use a gauge and flat file, but would love to do them on a grinder.


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## Philbert (Dec 14, 2014)

Wagnerwerks said:


> One thing I need to learn is how to set rakers. I use a gauge and flat file, but would love to do them on a grinder.



Took me a while to get it on my Oregon grinder. Mostly a mental block for me:
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/depth-gauges-on-a-grinder.200410/

As noted, one of the videos shows a guy doing depth gauges on his HF grinders - different technique than with the larger grinders and wider wheels.

Philbert


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## alderman (Dec 14, 2014)

I can probably cut a year supply of firewood on 3 to 4 sharpened chains. I got good uses out of my Harbor Freight grinder before purchasing an Oregon grinder. 
Every chain I sharpened with it would cut wood fine. 
If I keep an eye on things and don't get too wild with the saw, the chains don't need much but a light touch to get them ready to go again.


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## Chris-PA (Dec 14, 2014)

Wagnerwerks said:


> In all seriousness, if the rear hinge was drilled and bushed with real tolerances, this thing would work great... You would still have to measure cutters and reset to do the other side, but whoopty do. I bought this for 23 bucks if I remember correctly and I might have an hour in it. It would probably take me another hour to make bushings and make it even better. And,,, I had fun and save $$$. If I paid someone $5 @ to sharpen my chains, I paid for it in 5 chains. Not a bad turnaround. At the same time, if you don't fart with it a little bit, you can chew up a good chain quick. This same thinking can also justify a decent grinder.


That is exactly what I was thinking of doing. You could make bushings, but there are many things like that at McCMster-Carr so I would probably try to get some nice bushings for all the pivoting parts and then maybe turn bolts to tight tolerance. 

I have an even cheaper grinder that has the same kinds of issues with sloppy pivots, but the varying angles from side to side are from the chain being lose in the clamp, and then the wheel pushed the cutter in opposite directions on each side.


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## woodeneye (Dec 14, 2014)

I've had success and failures using this product. I usually do as many have mentioned, save it for rocked chains. But, if there is a way to improve its usage, I'm game. My unit does work well for those chains that have been trashed by hard objects and I'll continue to use it for that purpose. Thanks for starting this thread, Philbert!


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## Wagnerwerks (Dec 14, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> That is exactly what I was thinking of doing. You could make bushings, but there are many things like that at McCMster-Carr so I would probably try to get some nice bushings for all the pivoting parts and then maybe turn bolts to tight tolerance.
> 
> I have an even cheaper grinder that has the same kinds of issues with sloppy pivots, but the varying angles from side to side are from the chain being lose in the clamp, and then the wheel pushed the cutter in opposite directions on each side.


I was thinking about trying an s10 door pin kit. I know I have a few of them around somewhere from back in the day, but I can't find them. They look just about right.


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## c5rulz (Dec 14, 2014)

Philbert said:


> OK, maybe this will bring in a little more respect, interest, and consideration?
> 
> Philbert
> 
> View attachment 386694





May a bolt of lightning from above smite thee in a vindictive fashion for that sacrilege.


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## Philbert (Dec 14, 2014)

c5rulz said:


> May a bolt of lightning from above smite thee in a vindictive fashion for that sacrilege.


Livin' on the edge with the grinder gods . . . 

Philbert


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## Philbert (Dec 14, 2014)

How about these wheels for the SharpBoy grinder: 4-1/4" diameter, 7/8" arbor. 1/8 and 3/16" wheels, 50 grit. Molemab brand. $9.99. Anybody tried these on the HF grinders?

http://www.baileysonline.com/Chains...meter/Molemab-Grinding-Wheel-4-1-8-x-3-16.axd


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## Philbert (Dec 14, 2014)

o8F150 uses a _similar_ grinder in the first 4 minutes or so of this video, in this thread:

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/how-i-sharpen-chains.250585/


This is a SharpBoy grinder from Bailey's, which is also mostly plastic, but sells for $100. This is 2 to 3 times the cost of the HF grinders, and more in line with the Oregon/Tecomec clones. Same size wheels and similar rated motor as the newer HF units. Not sure if they belong in this thread as an 'upgraded' HF grinder (including some of the improvements suggested above?), or if they have stepped into more of a 'mid-range' grinder?
http://www.baileysonline.com/Chains...Bench-Mounted-Mini-Chain-Grinder-120-Volt.axd

Philbert


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## lambs (Dec 14, 2014)

Great post Philbert.
I had an older HF grinder, and attempted to shape the wheel so I could use it for depth gauges. It really didn't work very well for me, and I gave the grinder away in favor of an NT clone of the Oregon 511a. It's much better but I do not use it all that often either. Reasons:


The vitreous wheel (I use Oregon 1/4" for depth gauges) can easily overcook the depth gauges, making them impossible to file by hand.
The depth gauges are far enough apart from side to side that it's difficult to get the wheel to set them the same.
 
So unless I need to adjust a depth gauge significantly, I now file those by hand with the chain mounted in a bar clamped in a bench vise. I level the bar with my DAF and adjust the drop to about 6 degrees on most chain, filing by hand.


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## Philbert (Dec 14, 2014)

Side-to-side variation can be an issue with both cutters and depth gauges on most grinders. I never assume, even with my Oregon grinders. Due to the smaller diameter of the grinding wheels on these grinders, I assume that even the small, horizontal spacing between R and L cutters and depth gauges could be a significant difference in where they hit the curve of the wheel.

I always grind one side, then a single cutter on the other, and hold the cutters up back-to-back to compare. I suppose you could measure, but this is faster and easier for me.

Philbert


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## GrassGuerilla (Dec 14, 2014)

Philbert said:


> OK, maybe this will bring in a little more respect, interest, and consideration?
> 
> Philbert
> 
> View attachment 386694



Well played sir. And great thread.


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## Philbert (Dec 14, 2014)

*HF Grinder Manuals*

I have seen other brands of inexpensive chain grinders that use smaller diameter arbor holes in their grinding wheels. Looked up some HF manuals to find out, so I might as well link them for others. These are for the 'Bicycle Hand Brake' (68221) and the 'Lever Twist' (93213) models.

Philbert


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## ncpete (Dec 14, 2014)

Thanks Philbert for starting this thread. it gives some legitimacy to an HF tool I had vaguely wanted to try. I trust most of them (I use plenty of their cast iron in my wood shop), but I had been on the fence on this one. I can do a fairly decent hand file, but I have one chain in particular that I rocked pretty hard. This looks like just the fix, and somewhere around here I have one of their 20% off coupons, too.


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## Philbert (Dec 14, 2014)

ncpete said:


> Thanks Philbert for starting this thread. it gives some legitimacy to an HF tool I had vaguely wanted to try. .



Pete, just to be clear, I wanted to start a discussion on these, and maybe have some fun with them. I am not vouching for them or promoting them. Have not even used mine yet. If you look through some of the threads, some people think that they are total junk. If you choose to buy one, please do so with open eyes, and keep your receipt! And if you use one, please share your comments, positive or negative, here!

Philbert


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## ncpete (Dec 14, 2014)

sure, I understand that this is not an endorsement, and I am generally skeptical of any of HF's powered machinery, with these exceptions - they make a lathe that cannot be beat for the price, and their large dust collector was able to effectively clear two moderate dust producers in my shop at the same time - my table saw and 18" sander. It could only support 1 machine at a time if running the 20" planer or 8 jointer, and I shouldn't have expected more from the 1.5 hp dust collector anyways. The hand tools may not be the finest, but I have a full complement of their chisels, and my 'go-to' rabbit planer happens to be an HF piece - which sadly is no longer available. I also have several of their smaller nailers - not quite the finish of some of my more expensive tools, but the wood doesn't really know if it is getting fastened by a $180 pin nailer, or my $30 gun from HF. but, again, it is the smaller machinery I am most skeptical of, and I see enough people reasonably satisfied that the machine is definitely work the $28 mine will be after discounts applied. - also, it's easier to sneak that into the budget this close to Christmas.


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## zogger (Dec 14, 2014)

Never used a grinder....the following may be stupider than normal for me 

The main selling point of these appears to be price, 30 bucks, next step up is 100 bucks, OK

The main gripe I see here is inconsistency left and right, and hoop jumping to do depth gauges

Back to the main selling point, they are *cheap*.

Conclusion, buy three, you are still under 100$, have one set up for right hand cutters, one for left, one for depth gauges. Now, tighten them badboys up better so they ain't got that wiggle to them.

As to wheel sizes/brands/etc...I still can't wrap me pea brane around 3/16 wheels being suitable for different chains anyway, when we are supposed to use different size hand files, and this one uses 1/8th???..err......so..pass


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## LegDeLimber (Dec 14, 2014)

Don't have one, But have pawed over the returned and opened units in the store.
Seems to me if you keep in mind all of the things you folks have listed about them
and just keep a light hand on it, a bit like using a bar mount filing jig.

Keep a light touch and try to keep it consistent and I think you'll find out why
a few people are getting better results than other may be.

As for Philberts skinny wheels? Heck stack about 4 of 'em and dress true and 
then call the gaps between them cooling features.

For the main pivot? IF a person is truly on the verge of tossing one in the trash,
Then first pull the pin out and give it a thorough wipe over with some silicon spray.
Now put it back together then grab a tube of crazy glue and act like you're oiling the pin with it.
(might need to drill a hole in the frame to get the glue in )
check back in a day or so when the glue dries and if you got a the pin lube well,
then the glue should have filled the slop in the pivot.

But the whole trick is getting the pin slick so that the glue doesn't just lock things down.
Somebody send me that one you have sitting over on that shelf, beside the singing bass with leaking batteries, and I'll give it whirl.


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## Philbert (Dec 14, 2014)

My concern about stacking the 1/8 inch wheels is that I am not sure that the arbor has room for more than one. Note the 3/16 SharpBoy grinder wheel, or the right angle disc grinder wheels, which may fit?

Philbert

_(EDIT: *** I have since learned that other, more suitable wheels are available for these grinders***)_


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## LegDeLimber (Dec 15, 2014)

Dadgumit! the user pics seem to be stored in the same place as the all the vanity guff now.
I'm having to screw around with page source or page info, for most of the photos now.
can't seem to find all of the pics, to compare things.

IF you do try the stacked wheels, just make sure they're ALL completely on the arbor shank
and NOT sitting half off of a shoulder or on top of ANY threads.
Then just shift or spin the individual wheels in opposite directions to feel for any waviness
and roll out the flecks of grit that will give a false "torque" when you tighten the nut.
You also should feel for a smallest or thinnest stacking index. 
Slowly hand tighten the nut and wiggle them back and forth a bit and feel the loosest spot
and tighten a bit more and repeat till you think you have them nested in their best grouping
and snug the nut proper.
Absolutely! first power it up and stand back a moment. shut down and re-check the nut.
Of course you'll need to check it often when doing chains.

But you know what?? Probably just creating a headache and if the wheels shift and spin
then grab.
You could have one shatter on you.
ah well, at least it entertained me a couple of mins to type it out.


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## Big_Wood (Dec 15, 2014)

i had my grandfather pick me up one of these HF grinders a few years ago while he was down south. used it once and put it back in the box. pulled it out nearly a year later with the same result. i think i paid $34 on sale and sold it for $60 to some hack here. i mean the grinder is what it is and it certainly sharpens a chain better then someone who doesn't know how to sharpen a chain LOL. i got a 511ax now but searching for a square. i honestly to this day have not found a way of sharpening round cutters that is as good as myself doing it free hand with no guide. i've been doing it for years though. i almost bought a silvey SDM-4 2 months ago and the only thing that stopped me was the grinder was $1500 (talked the guy down to $1000) but all i had was $1000. i value eating right more then a square grinder so that where it ended up. my grandpa has a pro sharp silvey that he won't get rid of but i think it is mine in his will LOL.


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## fearofpavement (Dec 15, 2014)

Philbert posted the breakdown for two different HF grinders. One with the brake handle and one without. I have owned both.
They both have slop in them. This can be used advantageously to take a wee bit more off a tooth that's a little shorter than the others rather than making ALL the teeth shorter.
The problem with the one that has the brake handle is that because pressure is required to be applied to the lever to clamp the vice, it is difficult to control the "slop" in the unit. With the version that just has the tab to grip and lower the grinder, light pressure can be used and I found this unit works much better. (at least for me)
I think that if the brake handle clamp lever was removed from the motor and put down lower somewhere onto the table where it could be used by the left hand, then the right hand could smoothly lower the wheel into the chain. This would produce better results.
Long story short, if the tab type grinder was available, I would recommend it to a casual user. The brake handle unit I wouldn't recommend without modifications because I feel it gives disappointing results.
If you know how to sharpen a chain well with a file, you will get better results from these cheap grinders because they are essentially doing the same thing, just removing material from the chain with the wheel instead of the file. I don't think a chain grinder is a file replacement but augments sharpening.
As stated previously, if you have a few very dull chains around that are too intimidating to file, the HF grinder can be an inexpensive and effective solution.
I have one HF grinder in the shop I do small chains with, an Oregon 511AX I do the 3/8 chains with and an Oregon clone set up just for rakers. If I found another grinder of higher quality I would replace the HF version but it works adequately for my limited needs.
If you are a full time tree service, don't buy the HF. If you are a firewood cutter, it may be a suitable option and I would certainly recommend it over paying someone else to sharpen your chains.
Oh, don't stack wheels, that will not give good results in my opinion.


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## c5rulz (Dec 15, 2014)

westcoaster90 said:


> i had my grandfather pick me up one of these HF grinders a few years ago while he was down south. used it once and put it back in the box. pulled it out nearly a year later with the same result. i think i paid $34 on sale and sold it for $60 to some hack here.



You are my hero!


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## o8f150 (Dec 15, 2014)

my neighbor has a HF one,,, the pivots are real loose and sloppy compared to mine,,,,, I have the sharp boy from baileys,,, I don't think they even carry it any more,,, I like mine,, it does exactly what I need it to do,, the pivots are tight even though just about everything is plastic,,,


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## 67L36Driver (Dec 15, 2014)

Yes, the pivot deal. Must be some kind of hit and miss. The pivots seem tight enuff on mine. No worries there. Mostly the flexable plastic on it. I use that to my advantage to 'kiss' the odd cutter shorter than the rest.


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## 7sleeper (Dec 16, 2014)

I have a two variants of this type of machine. First the full plastic model and second the lower aluminum top plastic version. Since I cut in three different locations in Austria, each a few hours drive apart, I keep the full plastic verions at my seldom cutting areas and the half/half version at my home. I have used each 20+ times, so I am so free as to say they have long paid for themselves! I only have and use Stihl semichisel chain, irrespective of chainsaw brand. I use Efco/Oleo Mac, Hitachi/Tanaka, Makita/Dolmar, Solo & Stihl chainsaws. The largest size I use is the stihl contra, but not very often because I don't often have the wood to warrent its use.

What I always find amusing is the critisism of these units.

*1. Unprecise*

If we have a look for whom these units are made => homeowner/firewoods hacks, I wonder what this unprecise always compares too?

Unprecise to a few hundred dollar machine? Definately!

Unprecise to a homeowner/firewooder handfiling? Definately not! Irrespective of file guide, average fillings are never going to be as precise as these el cheapos, if you follow up on the techniques on using this tool as described in above posts or as I described it above on how I set it up.
And instead of using the monkey part off your brain and clinging onto the handle like an ape just use one or two fingers at first. Twist-/Tilt-/Canting is about impossible. That is one of the major flaws I see in the models with a bycicle brake set up.

*2. Uneven*

Often I hear you cannot switch easily from one side to another. Well I set up each side alwas new. I prefer, as also described by some above, the slight "scratching" touch when setting up with turned off engine. If I see that it isn't sufficient on a severly rocked chain I can easily adjust after the first pass and do a second.

If you are in such a hurry that you don't have time to readjust, well then this tool is definately not for you. For me it is a relaxing thing to do in the evening. But then again I have at least two spare chains per saw.


*3. Bad quality grinding wheel*

Of couse you absolutly need a resinoid wheel to even grind... Come on guys be serious. Millions of knives, chisels, etc have been sharpened with exactly the same composition. If you have problems with the grinding wheel, well sorry guys, but it is definately not the grinding wheels fault!
If you have burning problems then your technique is crap! If your setup is crap and you use this tool like an angle grinder to plow out the new contour, well nothing in the world is going to save your chain. If I take off more than usual I use a "bouncing" type technique and slowly but surely, after at least four to five "bounces" reach the bottom.

If your wheel is full of crap then clean your chain first. I use the compressor to quickly blow the dirt off.
You can probably get at least a fifty to hundred grindings out of one wheel, depending on chain length. For me I can't ask for more.


*4. Generall bad quality*

Well this is actually the same topic as we see a bunch of hobby firewooders running around in the forest and proclaiming that if you don't have the newest lightest fastest ported pro saw you can never cut a piece of wood because they saw the comparison vid on youtube....

No wonder these chainsaw companies are headed by a bunch of idiots who have no idea why they are actually producnig three categories of chainsaws (Home/Hobby, Farmer/SemiPro and Pro).
It would be really interesting to see the comparison of a pro using some homeowner class type saw (f.e. Stihl 251) cut trees in comparison to a homeowner comming straight from the stihl shop with the newest outfit and a pro saw(f.e. Stihl 261). The result after half an hour will already be quite clear.

There was a nice quote on another forum that I used to frequent, that most guys recomend after two cords of wood a tree harvestor with a firewood processor .....


*5. No sharp results*

Again it obviously depends on your expectations. If sharp for you means surgically sharp, then I doubt that any grinder is really going to make you happy. Because that would imply the need to further polish the cutter.
For me the result is having my firewood cut, not going to any gtg and proving that my chain is faster. I simply don't have time for this childs play.
I have made a comparison vid where I showed that this simple grinder has similar cutting speed results to brand new store bought stihl chain. If someone needs more, then get a more expensive grinder.


*6. Exclusive method*

For me the grinder is not the exclusive method to sharpen a chain. It is for me more part of the whole setup. The same reason why I don't run around and limb with the contra. I prefer the ~40cc class for this work. 
Would it be sufficient? Definately. Most homeowners would be more than happy with the sharpness this method provides.
For me most grinds get a follow up after the first use with the file again. Simply because I find it cuts slightly better. Although I admit, everyone who asks me for a sharpening only gets a grind. Never do handfilling for other peoples chains.

7


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## c5rulz (Dec 16, 2014)

7 sleeper,

Excellent condensation.

You are almost too practical.


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## 7sleeper (Dec 16, 2014)

c5rulz said:


> 7 sleeper,
> 
> Excellent condensation.
> 
> You are almost too practical.


Reality should not be ignored inspite of some romantic beliefs. Thak you for your compliment!

Just an update, a tree company is just removing some trees (spruce) on the neighbor property. They came over and asked me if I want the trunk wood. Funny thing is they removed a small ash in the summer and remembered me. I have no problem what so ever with soft wood. It burns just as well.
Well I wanted to give the guy a tip and he declined, so I offered him to file his chains. He said only the small 231 has a dull chain because one of his guys had touched the dirt with it, anyhow he was real happy that I quickly touched it up for him on the el cheapo grinder. Actually he was quite impressed how well it cut. The other two saws he had with him where a 192 and a 066. Not quite the saws he wanted to continue cutting the smaller trees with.

7


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## Philbert (Dec 16, 2014)

Thank you for your passionate input 7sleeper! It was your advocacy of these grinders that made me even give them a second look! 

Philbert


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## 7sleeper (Dec 16, 2014)

But you still haven't used yours.... 



7


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## Philbert (Dec 16, 2014)

Still in the analytical stage . . .

Starting to understand some of the concerns with the bicycle brake version. Simple is probably better with cheap devices!


The hole that the cable passes through is quite large, so the cable pulls at an angle, and the clamp does not grip the drive link without a bit of fussing. Will have to bush it with something simple. A 5/16" 'T' nut might fit. Or glue some plastic bushing in there. Or wrap a bunch of tape around the cable . . .

On the upside, this unit appears to already have the tack welds that Wagnerwerks mentioned earlier.

The 'other' style of these grinders are still sold on eBay, Amazon, etc., but not at HF.
(_See - you got me from not wanting one of these at all to wanting another one!_)

Philbert


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## 67L36Driver (Dec 16, 2014)

The more I look at the bicycle brake clamp, the more I prefer my older style lever operated.

Now if we change it to a foot pedal operated clamp with a much more robust cable...........................................................................................

Hey, why don't ALL chain grinders have a foot operated clamp? Or, do some?


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## Philbert (Dec 16, 2014)

I thought of the foot pedal idea. I think that I actually mentioned the handbrake idea here in an AS thread, before HF came out with their's!

The issue with a foot pedal is placement. You have to know the height of the grinder or have a very long cable. But you could very easily convert the bicycle brake style grinder to a foot pedal, with just some additional cable and housing from a bicycle store. 

Philbert


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## Philbert (Dec 17, 2014)

The photo above (post #81) shows the oversized cable housing hole, which caused the cable to pull at an angle, and the vise clamp to sometimes hang up. At first I thought I could bush this hole with a piece of plastic cut from the barrel of a pen, but it was hard to find just the right size. So I wrapped the cable housing (and end ferrule) with foil tape and covered it with heat shrink tubing for a finished look. Don't want this to look like a cheap grinder!







I also buffed down the sharp corners on the the small, moving part of the vise clamp so that it is less likely to hang up. If you look close, you can see the difference with the earlier photo.

Ready to sharpen!

Philbert


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## Philbert (Dec 17, 2014)

Ok, also had to de-burr one of the 'star wheels' at the ends of the vice so that it would rotate freely.

Philbert


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## lambs (Dec 17, 2014)

Philbert said:


> Side-to-side variation can be an issue with both cutters and depth gauges on most grinders. I never assume, even with my Oregon grinders. Due to the smaller diameter of the grinding wheels on these grinders, I assume that even the small, horizontal spacing between R and L cutters and depth gauges could be a significant difference in where they hit the curve of the wheel.
> 
> I always grind one side, then a single cutter on the other, and hold the cutters up back-to-back to compare. I suppose you could measure, but this is faster and easier for me.
> 
> Philbert


 
I know this is a thread on the HF grinder, but on the Oregon 511a at least, you can adjust the side to side location of the rails to get the cutters at least the same length. It takes a little trial and error, but I have mine dialed in. With depth gauges, they are too far apart side to side, and the wheel grinds the top of the gauge, so it angles the top differently.


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## Philbert (Dec 17, 2014)

Run the Right side depth gauges. Turn the chain around. Run the Left side depth gauges. 

Or use a file! Depth gauges on a grinder need to be rounded off anyway. 

Philbert


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## lambs (Dec 17, 2014)

Philbert said:


> Run the Right side depth gauges. Turn the chain around. Run the Left side depth gauges.
> 
> Or use a file! Depth gauges on a grinder need to be rounded off anyway.
> 
> Philbert


 
Next time I need to lower depth gauges a lot, I'll try it. Thanks.


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## old guy (Dec 18, 2014)

Philbert, I was at the Fleet Farm at 35w& Lexington today and thair $124 model is actually a 511 frame comeplete with 10 degree tilt, looks like a cheaper motor & a few other small parts are different but is in my opinion a basic 511.

John


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## Philbert (Dec 18, 2014)

It's a copy/clone John. Lots of those out there. The 'NT Grinder' threads discuss some of the quality issues, for better or worse. 

The 'SharpBoy' grinder that oF150 mentions also sells for around $100 - presumably a 'better, plastic grinder'. 

I have an Oregon 511A, grinder (for full disclosure) - just trying to see what I can do with one of these inexpensive ones.

Philbert


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## c5rulz (Dec 18, 2014)

old guy said:


> Philbert, I was at the Fleet Farm at 35w& Lexington today and thair $124 model is actually a 511 frame comeplete with 10 degree tilt, looks like a cheaper motor & a few other small parts are different but is in my opinion a basic 511.
> 
> John




Hi John,

What you are describing sounds like an Oregon 510 not a 511AX. The vise is substantially better on the 511AX.


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## old guy (Dec 18, 2014)

I saw a 510 at NT last week and I thought it was way less machine than the 511a, the one I saw today looked interchangable with my 511a and had the same vice as mine, I am gonna have to go back to these places and study.

John


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## old guy (Dec 18, 2014)

Philbert, I realize what you are trying to do with this thread, but the grinder I saw today looked like a very good grinder for cheap.

John


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## Philbert (Dec 18, 2014)

old guy said:


> . . the one I saw today looked interchangable with my 511a . . .



The stuff you can't see is the quality of the metals, the windings of the motors, etc. Go back and check out the NT thread first so that you will have some ideas what to look for. A lot of guys mentioned: slop in several places that needed to be bushed, lower quality wheels, and wheel wobble. But a lot of guys still like those grinders, and they probably are a step up from these plastic HF grinders, even with some of those flaws!

Philbert


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## 67L36Driver (Dec 18, 2014)

Hinge slop? Not really. Flex in the plastic? Yes. But unless you are ham fisted, no problem. No wheel wobble noticed.

Just looked. Mine is a "*Nick the Grinder"* made in Italy, possible 5 or 8 years old.


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## Philbert (Dec 18, 2014)

67L36Driver said:


> Hinge slop? Not really. Flex in the plastic? Yes. But unless you are ham fisted, no problem. No wheel wobble noticed.


These were comments that others made about the Asian clones of the Oregon/Tecomec grinders. Not regarding the plastic, HF style grinders. 

Philbert


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## Philbert (Dec 19, 2014)

Philbert said:


> So . . . . I was wondering . . . . if these _types_ of wheels would work:


DUH!

I was so focused on the '_cheap_' part of this grinder that I did not realize that 'real' grinding wheels should fit too!



This is the Oregon wheel for their smaller format grinders! It looks like some of the NT and SharpBoy grinders also have 3/16 inch thick wheels for doing some .325 and full sided 3/8 pitch chains with the profiled edge of the wheel, instead of with the side.

Oregon at Bailey's http://www.baileysonline.com/Chains...ameter/Oregon-Grinding-Wheel-4-1-8-x-3-16.axd
Molemab at Bailey's http://www.baileysonline.com/Chains...meter/Molemab-Grinding-Wheel-4-1-8-x-3-16.axd

Philbert


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## Philbert (Dec 19, 2014)

OK, I bought some close out 3/16 inch thick grinding wheels on eBay to keep with the spirit of this thread. I guess that I can also save and use any wheels from my 511A grinder when they get really worn down too? Same diameter arbor (DOH! - again).

Philbert


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## joer1214 (Dec 19, 2014)

I will echo what some others have said... decent tool for cleaning up damaged cutters and making them all the same length but not a stout machine. Touch up with a file after and they cut great. I've done 6-8 chains and I got it at a garage sale for $15, it was NIB. Should pay for itself easily.


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## Philbert (Dec 19, 2014)

*First Grind*

Actually took it for a 'spin' today. I have a loop of STIHL 3/8 low profile chain with several heavily damaged cutters that I am going to spin out, so I thought that these would be good to experiment/play with. This chain would normally be sharpened with a 1/8 inch wheel. See Post #182 in this thread: http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/philberts-chain-salvage-challenge.245369/page-10

I clamped the grinder to a bench, and worked like I would with a full sized grinder: multiple light 'taps', grinding with the profiled edge of the wheel; dressing the wheel with a stone, etc. I tried just 'kissing' the edges for a touch up; hogging off damaged cutters; cleaning up gullets; and lowering the depth gauges.




- The grinder needs to be positioned much higher. I could not easily see the wheel touching the cutter. Looks like its back to the step ladder!

- It takes little time to get used to the same hand controlling the vise/brake handle, and the tapping/grinding. So a little coordination is required! The other hand has to hold the chain in position until the vise locks. As with any vise, the user has to be sure that the cutter is properly seated before grinding in order to get even grinds.

- This is a light duty device. It will not hold up, or give acceptable results with excessive pressure, or ham fisted operation (as 67L36Driver notes). Definitely not a commercial or heavy use tool.

- The 'mods' I made, cleaning up the vise, etc., helped with smooth operation. The reinforced brake cable (Post # 84) hit the center post when rotating the vise from R to L, but that is a minor issue.

- It is possible to 'burn' a cutter with this device (I tried, intentionally!). Good grinder technique is still needed.

- There was a lot of variation between R and L cutters in cutter length and depth of grind. Each side needs to be set up independently.

- I was able to clean out gullets OK, by backing off the positioning dog and lowering the grinder head a little.

- Grinding depth gauges was a challenge. *Note that the ramped depth gauges on this chain are not very common. But the grinder head is fixed at 60°. And the brake lever style clamping vise makes it difficult to 'slide' the depth gauges under the wheel, as was demonstrated in one of the videos, using the other style vise. When I tried to turn the chain around to grind the L side depth gauges facing the other direction, the vise clamp would only grab the depth gauge in front of the cutter, so the cutter and depth gauge rocked and moved too much.

- The knobs to advance the chain are of little use. It is easier to grasp the chain and pull it forward or back.

- I was absolutely able to clean up some really rocked cutters and to make acceptable cutting edges on this chain.




*First Use Impressions*

* I think that someone who knows what a sharp cutter is supposed to look like, has a light hand, and is willing to make a few tweaks to this grinder, should be able to sharpen smaller pitch chains with it. *

Someone expecting miracles, automatic operation, or heavy duty use, will be very disappointed.

It is not a true competitor to the larger, more expensive grinders, but if this is what I had, I could work with it.

I have ordered some 3/16 grinding wheels to try with larger pitch chains.

I am confident that taping '_Silvey_' to the top and side of the grinder improved sharpening performance significantly.

I really want to try the other style vise (these '_cheap_' grinders are starting to cost me a significant amount of money!)

Philbert


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## lambs (Dec 19, 2014)

That Silvey sticker turned you into a true professional!

Nice review.


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## cutforfun (Dec 19, 2014)

I have a 511ax but still. Use the old orange HF grinder for 3/8 lp chain. The grinding wheel is right and it works fine, if you know what you are doing. I actually is the slop in the hinge to kiss the tooth and only take off as much material as needed. 
Great detailed thread as always Philbert


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## snide (Dec 19, 2014)

My experience with the HF Grinder has been very positive. Bought the grinder a long time ago. I cut lots of firewood, mostly hedge and
locust. This grinder has saved me hundreds of dollars. The grinder switch quit on me last spring. I took it apart and the switch was packed
full of filings, Cleaned all the filings out of the switch and it works great. I also do a lot of sharpening of chains for neighbors, friends
and my 4 chainsaws. Does a great job with no complaints.


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## 7sleeper (Dec 20, 2014)

One last thing missing in your work up!

How did the chain cut?


But otherwise great work as usual!!! 

7


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## Philbert (Dec 20, 2014)

7sleeper said:


> How did the chain cut?


Practice chain.

But, as noted, I am confident that it would cut OK. 

Philbert


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## Philbert (Dec 20, 2014)

OK comments on the '_side pivot_' (grinder head pivots from the side of the chain) versus the '_front pivot_' (grinder head pivots from the front of the cutters - _anybody have better terms to distinguish these_) styles of grinders?

7sleeper, it sounds like you have experience with both?

There are several versions of each style grinder, and they sell in the same, general price range. Assuming that the quality of construction is the same, is one style easier to use, do you get better results, more flexibility, convenience of operation, increased visibility, consistency, etc., with one or the other?

Thanks.

Philbert


'Side Pivot' 
'Front Pivot'


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## Philbert (Dec 20, 2014)

(I'm thinking that the vise on the 'Front Pivot' one is just a few mods away from a square grind device!)

Philbert


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## Philbert (Dec 23, 2014)

I contacted HF and asked them if they could consider selling their 'old' style grinder/sharpener again, and a 3/16" grinding wheel for larger pitch chain. They said that they would pass my suggestion on to their Product Management Team.

Philbert


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## 7sleeper (Dec 23, 2014)

Philbert said:


> OK comments on the 'hinged' versus the 'tilt/pivot' (anybody have better terms to distinguish these) styles of grinders?
> 
> 7sleeper, it sounds like you have experience with both?
> 
> ...


Hey Philbert,

Sorry don't have any experience with the model on the right side. Only with the HF model and an advanced version with a aluminum bottom part and led lamp. But still the turn table is the same plastic. 
I believe I mentioned above that the "full" plastice version is more "flexible" which can be used to it's advantage. For me grinding results are the same in daily use. 

7


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## Philbert (Dec 23, 2014)

Thanks. It is hard to tell from the photographs if parts are made from metal or plastic. I have been fooled both ways! Clearly, there are several 'versions' or models of these grinders that look similar, and may be built to different quality levels. A 'good' plastic product may be better than a 'bad' metal one.

The HF grinders operate in a similar manner to the Oregon/Tecomec/etc. grinders, there the grinding wheel is in line with the top plate cutting edge. Using the correct thickness wheel, it appears that you can get edges profiled similar to using a round file.

The wheels on the other style grinders meet the top plate in a arc that is perpendicular to this cutting edge. It would almost seem like you would get a very slight curve to the top plate cutting edge with these.

I suppose that both work (?). Curious to hear from people who have used the second style grinders. I have never tried these.

Philbert


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## shootingarts (Dec 23, 2014)

Philbert said:


> . . .
> 
> The wheels on the other style grinders meet the top plate in a arc that is perpendicular to this cutting edge. It would almost seem like you would get a very slight curve to the top plate cutting edge with these.
> 
> ...



I was looking at that green thing. Looks like a little whittling and a slide or linear bearing and I might be on the way to something to square grind with, or not. Can't find it available but found one similar, maybe better for around a hunnert shipped. Maybe I could build a two hundred dollar square grinder, . . . or not!

Hu


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## Philbert (Dec 23, 2014)

shootingarts said:


> I was looking at that green thing. Looks like a little whittling and a slide or linear bearing and I might be on the way to something to square grind with, or not.



That's what I was thinking. The 'better' ones have a metal vise and higher wattage motors. If the motor was removed from the base plate and repositioned, and the vise was mounted on a slide . . . . poor man's square grind!

Philbert


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## shootingarts (Dec 23, 2014)

Philbert said:


> That's what I was thinking. The 'better' ones have a metal vise and higher wattage motors. If the motor was removed from the base plate and repositioned, and the vise was mounted on a slide . . . . poor man's square grind!
> 
> Philbert



Prolly best we keeps on think'n, thas whut we good at!!

Hu


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## Philbert (Dec 24, 2014)

*First Try with 3/16 Inch Grinding Wheel*

Ordered some 3/16" grinding wheels. Still waiting for them. Then I saw this one on clearance at NT. Along with an extra 50% off, it was 70 cents. 70 cents! What could be more appropriate for a HF grinder from the '_Xmas Giving_' thread than a 70 cent grinding wheel!?

Same 7/8" bore. Slightly smaller 4" diameter instead of 4-1/4" - that's OK. Speed rated at 11,460 RPM for 4,200 RPM grinder (HF wheel is rated for 7,270 RPM). For a different chain grinder.




Seems to fit. Smaller diameter should clear. Threaded knob on arbor (not shown) fits OK. Wheel clears guard/cover when turned manually. Time to try it!




Found _*MOST*_ of the pieces!!! Took a little bit of hunting around the room.




The wheel exploded right after I touched the switch - before it got anywhere near up to speed. *YES, GUARDS MATTER!!
*
Might have been a defective wheel (too late to do a 'ring test')? There were no wear marks or scrapes under the guard to indicate that the wheel or the arbor nut were rubbing. Will try again when the other wheels arrive, but I will be standing at the side!

Not sure how long these little sheet metal screws that secure the guard will keep holding in the plastic if removed and replaced often. Can't drill through and use nuts if they do, will just have to keep using larger or longer screws.

_Let's be careful out there!_





Philbert


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## 67L36Driver (Dec 24, 2014)

Philbert said:


> *First Try with 3/16 Inch Grinding Wheel*
> 
> Ordered some 3/16" grinding wheels. Still waiting for them. Then I saw this one on clearance at NT. Along with an extra 50% off, it was 70 cents. 70 cents! What could be more appropriate for a HF grinder from the '_Xmas Giving_' thread than a 70 cent grinding wheel!?
> 
> ...



Yes. Let's.

My favorite character from Hill Street Blues!


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## Philbert (Dec 24, 2014)

67L36Driver said:


> My favorite character from Hill Street Blues!


Also a 'Phil' - Michael Conrad as 'Sergeant Phil Esterhaus'.

Philbert


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## Philbert (Dec 28, 2014)

*Front Pivot Grinder Instructional Videos*
From YouTube. ***Again, not endorsing any specific grinder, vendor, or techniques! But interesting to compare.***


Note 'mods' to 'cheap' grinder right off the bat!


Note clamping of each tooth with the side knob. Some of these grinders sandwich the drive links between 2 plates, with spacing controlled by the knob. Some just fix the drive link between one plate and the bottom of the threaded knob.


'Quick Feed Sharpener ' Spring holds cutter in position, interesting feed mechanism, but note flex as chain advances.


Auto advance! If this design could be made so that it sharpens precisely and reliably, the user could really process a lot of chains! 
I would call this the '_Franzen Killer_' (in honor of the $20,000 automatic sharpener - see posts below)!
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/anybody-use-an-automatic-chain-sharpener.172678/
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/mr-franzen-the-chainsaw-world-wants-to-meet-you.79224/

Philbert


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## Philbert (Dec 28, 2014)

*I Blame It On 7Sleeper
*
This whole thread. And how much I have spent on '_cheap_' grinders!

Anyway, no one has commented on the 'Front Pivot' style grinders, and there have been millions sold. And, a local chain store (no pun intended - folks in the Midwest know it as the place where you save BIG money) has some on clearance. AND, they have a 1_5%-off-everything-you-can-fit-in-a-bag_ sale going on. Which brought this down to about $25. Which fits into the description of a 'cheap grinder'.






Base is thin, cast metal, that almost feels like plastic (?). 3,000 RPM, 130 watts. They are replacing it with another brand and model that spins at 5,600 RPM, 85 watts. It came with an extra wheel; hex wrenches for the various fasteners; a wrench for the grinding wheel arbor nut; and even mounting bolts, nuts, and washers.

This one only uses an 1/8 inch wheel, and has a smaller diameter arbor hole (25/64, 10mm?), so it's a less universal size wheel. I am thinking that the thickness of the grinding wheel for different pitch chains is less important on this type of grinder because it 'scoops' the edge of the cutter from the front, rather than profiling it from the side?

I will play with it next week. As before, the videos above are more helpful than the Manual.

Philbert

_*EDIT: just saw this on eBay for $159.99! That might make it work better than putting a Silvey sticker on it!_


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## 67L36Driver (Dec 28, 2014)

My bag says 15% off.


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## Philbert (Dec 29, 2014)

Some interesting observations on this new grinder. Apparently, it was private labeled for this chain of stores, because it references their name on the box, and in the owner's manual. However, the manual also references Harbor Freight (so it definitely belongs in this thread!) for replacement wheels. My guess is that it is sold under many different brand names.

The manual specs a 7/8 inch arbor size for the grinding wheels (they are 25/64", 10mm). It uses several photos of the older style, HF, 'Side Pivot' grinder to illustrate use of knobs that don't exist, or are totally different, on this grinder. Most of the photos and illustrations are so small that they are difficult to see. Fortunately, I was able to download a PDF version, which I could enlarge on the computer screen.

No wonder no one reads the owner's manuals! Good thing for YouTube videos - otherwise, I would not be sure how to mount it!

Philbert


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## 7sleeper (Dec 29, 2014)

I accept all resposibility mon ami ...

7


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## Philbert (Jan 4, 2015)

Haven't gotten around to trying any yet. But on the HF website, you can scan through over 150 reviews of the current, bicycle brake lever grinder, and *find tips and mods from other users*, including some about adding a spacer for a tighter grip by the vise. Also, several related comments about the cutters rising up from the vise when grinding.

Philbert


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## 67L36Driver (Jan 5, 2015)

Still only $39.99 at the HF store in NKC.


Found another item of interest there.



Almost tripped my trigger except I would have had to gather up accessories (presets) to go with it. Not ready to get that involved yet.


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## Philbert (Jan 5, 2015)

67L36Driver said:


> Still only $39.99 at the HF store in NKC.



The grinder goes on sale periodically for $40, then use a coupon for another 20% or 25% off. You can get the 'old' model off eBay for $30 - $40 (ask me how I know!). Not sure that I would recommend the bicycle brake (current HF) model, based on my brief experience and the comments of others here. Will play with the 3 styles and post more some stuff here. Hope others do as well!



67L36Driver said:


> Found another item of interest there. Almost tripped my trigger except I would have had to gather up accessories (presets) to go with it.


I know of another A.S. member who bought one of those spinner/breaker combos but could not get replacement punches - which can break occasionally. A few guys have made their own replacement punches, but I don't have those skills. Bailey's often has a set that goes on sale for $100 - parts are available for these, and are a better deal IMHO.
http://www.baileysonline.com/Chains...aker-Spinner-Combination-with-Chain-Chart.axd

Philbert


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## Wood Doctor (Jan 6, 2015)

On occasion I use the HF grinder that somebody gave me four years ago. It works OK as a dedicated raker dropper for a chain that needs a lot taken off in one pass. That's about all I use it for.


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## Philbert (Jan 6, 2015)

Wood Doctor said:


> It works OK as a dedicated raker dropper for a chain that needs a lot taken off in one pass.



How do you do the rakers with it (and which style of HF grinder)? Multiple passes, slide the chain back-and-forth, etc.?

Thanks.

Philbert


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## Wood Doctor (Jan 6, 2015)

Mine's the age old style, whatever they sold 10 years ago. I sometimes use two passes. The first one takes the front edge of the raker down and the second takes the trailing edge. I flattened the wheel's outside to make it easier. Unfortunately, these thin wheels cannot be replaced with wider ones, so it's a bit hit and miss. However, it's usually close enough.

Regardless, using the Oregon 511a to drop rakers is now my preferred way of doing it. I angle grind the leading edge of the raker at 60 degrees (same setting as when sharpening cutters) using the back side of the wheel that rarely gets used otherwise. In this fashion I don't have to change the depth setting or the wheel, just the lateral tooth position and set the chain vise at 0 degrees. I suppose I could use the HF grinder to do all this as well. Here's a sketch:


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## Wood Doctor (Jan 6, 2015)

Note that the sketch shows the back angle of the raker as straight when actually it's more of a curve, concave downward. That means that more height drop will take place with subsequent waste removal as the chain gets used up. Initially it will drop slowly and later it will drop faster, so you have to be a little careful. However, I'm not having any difficulty with this technique and it's a bit of a time saver.


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## Philbert (Jan 6, 2015)

Interesting. You are shortening the length of the depth gauge/raker as well as the height? Look like they could get sharp/pointy at the top, or is this just the sketch?

In one of the videos, the guy brings his wheel down to the desired height and pulls his depth gauges through to take the height down, leaving a flat top. On my 511A I use the wider wheel to take just the tops down, then round the depth gauges back over to match the factory profile with a ScotchBrite wheel on a bench motor.

Philbert


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## Wood Doctor (Jan 6, 2015)

Philbert said:


> Interesting. You are shortening the length of the depth gauge/raker as well as the height? Look like they could get sharp/pointy at the top, or is this just the sketch?
> 
> In one of the videos, the guy brings his wheel down to the desired height and pulls his depth gauges through to take the height down, leaving a flat top. On my 511A I use the wider wheel to take just the tops down, then round the depth gauges back over to match the factory profile with a ScotchBrite wheel on a bench motor.
> 
> Philbert


Using my idea, they really don't get any sharper at the top because you are coming in at the 60-degree angle. They may actually be sharper at the top on a new chain. The raker profile remains almost the same all the way down with the curve remaining on the top.

About all I noticed is that I have to use my left hand to keep the stop tight to the chain and cutter, once it's set for the correct amount to remove from the raker. There is a tendency for it to lift up and move to the right (away from the wheel), even when the vice clamps are squeezed against the DLs . A tad slower vertical drop also helps, thus letting the grinder do its thing. Once again, you get better at it with a little practice.


----------



## lambs (Jan 6, 2015)

Wood Doctor said:


> Using my idea, they really don't get any sharper at the top because you are coming in at the 60-degree angle. They may actually be sharper at the top on a new chain. The raker profile remains almost the same all the way down with the curve remaining on the top.
> 
> About all I noticed is that I have to use my left hand to keep the stop tight to the chain and cutter, once it's set for the correct amount to remove from the raker. There is a tendency for it to lift up and move to the right (away from the wheel), even when the vice clamps are squeezed against the DLs . A tad slower vertical drop also helps, thus letting the grinder do its thing. Once again, you get better at it with a little practice.



I like the idea but I bet Oregon would have a cow over it. I may give this a try. 

I generally hit the depth gauges flat across the top as Philbert does, then contour the front edges by hand with a couple strokes of a flat file.


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## Philbert (Jan 12, 2015)

*!!!!*

OK, what does this look like? Just saw it today, it is a new *OREGON* grinder (available March, 2015).
No idea what pricing will be. No idea from the photo how much will be metal, how much will be plastic, how it compares to the HF type models. Oregon usually makes or puts their name on pretty good stuff. Comes with a 3/8 inch wheel, with an optional* 1/8 inch wheel (*description says optional in some places, included in others). Looks like a fixed grinder head tilt angle and no vise tilt.

As the guy on "_Laugh In_" used to say, "_Verrrry Interesting!_"



Philbert


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## 67L36Driver (Jan 12, 2015)

Philbert said:


> *!!!!*
> 
> OK, what does this look like? Just saw it today, it is a new *OREGON* grinder (available March, 2015).
> No idea what pricing will be. No idea from the photo how much will be metal, how much will be plastic, how it compares to the HF type models. Oregon usually makes pretty good stuff. Comes with a 3/8 inch wheel, with an optional 1/8 inch wheel.Looks like a fixed grinder head tilt angle and no vise tilt.
> ...



That is absolutely identical to my 'Nick the Grinder'.

Made in Italy.


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## Philbert (Jan 12, 2015)

*Last One!!! (?)
*
Ordered this one off of eBay, before I found out about the new Oregon grinder, above. Looks like the 'old' HF model.




Still looks and feels cheap, but less complex than the other two I acquired. Cleaned up some rough edges, added the foil tape to the post (as with the first grinder) to make clean up easier. Need to make a base for it. Have to print up some '_Silvey_' labels before I can give it a fair trial.

One thing I like about this one is that the 4, self-tapping screws securing the wheel guard could be replaced with machine scenes and nuts if they strip out in the plastic from repeated use. This is not possible with the guards on some models. Since I already had one wheel explode, this is important to me.

Only has the 1/8" wheel.

Philbert


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## Wood Doctor (Jan 12, 2015)

Philbert said:


> *Last One!!! (?)
> *
> Ordered this one off of eBay, before I found out about the new Oregon grinder, above. Looks like the 'old' HF model.
> 
> ...


Except for the color, it does not look much different from mine, which is all orange. Yours might actually be newer. I'm surprised the owner still had the original carton. I stopped using mine after I bought my second sharpener made in Italy at an estate auction. My new one has hydraulic assist for chain locking. Heck, I did not know your were in the market for one of these.


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## 67L36Driver (Jan 12, 2015)

The clamp is adjustable on them. What works on .063 guage won't clamp .050 guage. You have to reposition the handle.


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## Philbert (Jan 12, 2015)

Wood Doctor said:


> Yours might actually be newer.



It is new. They are still sold under a variety of brand names, in different colors, with a few design/manufacturing variations, as noted. Looked around on CL and estate sales for a while . . . 



Wood Doctor said:


> Heck, I did not know your were in the market for one of these.



Always interested . . . As noted at the start of this thread, I have limited expectations for these grinders, but trying to keep an open mind. Might find a niche use for one and keep it alongside my traditional Oregon grinder. How did yours work when you did use it? Any tasks where you might still use it and be happy? What do you like better about your Italian, hydraulic clamping grinder?

Thanks!

Philbert


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## jerrycmorrow (Jan 13, 2015)

Philbert said:


> *...* Since I already had one wheel explode, this is important to me...
> 
> Philbert


spikin of which. did you ever try the others in that batch or get others and try?


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## Philbert (Jan 13, 2015)

jerrycmorrow said:


> spikin of which. did you ever try the others in that batch or get others and try?



I got some other wheels and will try them on 2 of these grinders. Waiting for the weather to warm up a bit so I can do it outside, and maybe some side-by-side comparisons.

The new Oregon grinder shows both the 3/16" and 1/8" wheels - conflicting information in the catalog whether it comes with one or both wheels.

Philbert


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## Philbert (Jan 19, 2015)

67L36Driver said:


> That is absolutely identical to my 'Nick the Grinder'. Made in Italy.



I wan't sure if '_Nick the Grinder_' was the brand, or just an affectionate name for yours! So I Googled it and found this:


This picture looks like the one I just bought, above, made in China. The new Oregon 310 looks similar, but can't tell what types of materials are used, where it is made, etc. It appears to have access for replacing motor brushes, which is different. Will be interesting to see it in person.

Philbert


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## 67L36Driver (Jan 20, 2015)

That's it right there..........................................Good Old Nick!


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## Philbert (Jan 24, 2015)

*The Three Amigos!*



Started some _side-by-side_ comparisons of these three grinders today with smaller (Oregon type 90, 3/8 low pro, narrow kerf) chain.

*General Impressions*
All of these are light duty machines - they will not stand up to heavy use or abuse, but could hold up to careful use. Each of these could be used to make a chain sharper and more serviceable. Could be a good choice for a casual user. The practice chain I used today had a number of rocked cutters that cleaned up well. Could be used to occasionally clean up rocked chains before final filing.

The quality of these three is also modest out of the box. I spent a bit of time on each cleaning up moldings, shimming some parts, bushing the vise clamping cable on the HF one; mounting them on bases; etc. They are not as well made as the Oregon 511 type grinders, do not have as much power, have smaller diameter wheels, and limited options for chain angles (top plate angle only is adjustable; grinder head tilt is fixed; no vise tilt option). This means that a user has to be content with 'standard' angles (e.g. 30°/60°/0°). Cleaning out the gullet was also more difficult with limited tilt options and only a 1/8" wheel. I did not get as smooth a grind, or as consistent cutters, as with the larger grinder, but did get edges that would cut,

I did try to mount a 3/16" wheel on the the two 'side pivot' grinders (_after performing a ring test!!!_). It fit on one, but not the other. I don't know if the variation is in the wheels (arbor hole was slightly smaller than the stock ones) or between the grinders. Might work with a different brand of wheel.

Note the small, sheet metal screws that hold the wheel guards on some grinders. I am concerned how well these will hold up after multiple wheel changes. The design of some grinders would allow these holes to be drilled through and replaced with a screw and nut, if stripped out. Others are blind threaded and don't allow this.




Specific comments follow. 

Philbert


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## Philbert (Jan 24, 2015)

*Some Grinder Specific Comments

Infinity *(old style Harbor Freight) (Post#134 )
'Side pivot'; Re-positionable lever clamp; rated 80 Watts/4,800 RPM

I like this one the most of this group. It is the simplest design with the fewest number of moving parts. The re-positionable lever is easy to use, and holds the cutters pretty secure. It allowed the best visibility of the grinding operation. The chain pawl is pretty light, and might need to be shimmed a bit more to stabilize it. I could see maybe keeping this one as a 'field' grinder, possibly run off a vehicle inverter.


*Harbor Freight* (Post #8)
'Side pivot'; bicycle brake vise clamp; rated 90 Watts/4,200 RPM

Despite working on the clamping lever, cable, and vise, it is still sloppy to use. I had to check each time to make sure that the cutter and clamp seated correctly. As another user noted, it also affects your hand position when you have to operate the brake as well as lower the motor/wheel. It was fast to lock/unlock. Also, as noted before, the handle interferes with the visibility of the grinding operation.


*Worksite* (Post #118)
'Front pivot'; Threaded knob vise clamp; rated 130 Watts/3,000 RPM

I found this grinder the most awkward to use. This might be because it is so much different from others I have used, and I might change my mind as I get more accustomed to it. It has the most powerful motor of the three. It might be OK for a patient user.

Each cutter has to be locked in place, and released, with 2 - 3 turns of a threaded knob. The chain is supposed to be pulled backwards, against the pawl and the direction of the cutters, which is counter-intuitive. Even then, the chain did not slide smoothly through the vise. I may try to disassemble the vise and smooth/bevel the edges of the clamping plates to see if that makes a difference. The knob to lock/unlock the vise rotation is recessed under the base and hard to reach.

I found this grinder difficult to set up because the cutter is obscured as the head is lowered, and the adjustments are not very precise. Accurate depth control is the most difficult. Not only was it hard to see the cutters when setting them up and while grinding, but it was hard to inspect them afterwards, to see if they were ground correctly. Especially the Right side cutters. I used a dental mirror to help, but it still was difficult to tell if I got an accurate or complete grind.




I will try these again with some larger pitch chains, and possibly, with some additional tweaking.


Philbert


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## 67L36Driver (Jan 25, 2015)

My old 'Nick' looks better an better compared to the newer offerings.


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## Philbert (Jan 25, 2015)

Worksite grinder chain groove.

I noted that the 3/8 low profile, narrow kerf chain did not feed smoothly through the vise groove on this grinder. So I took it apart and beveled/smoothed any parts of the clamping mechanism that might cause it to hang up. Turns out it is the actual width of the groove (_top photo_) - around 0.120 inches.








The tie straps of 3/8 low profile (_middle photo_) and .325 narrow kerf chain jam up in the groove (notice how chain sinks in up to rivets). Full sized .325 (_bottom photo_) and larger chain rides on tie straps, and slides easily in both directions. I suppose some type of shims could be fitted to support the tie straps of the narrower chain. Might be different on other brands or models of this style grinder, but its designed into this one.

Philbert


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## Bret4207 (Jan 26, 2015)

67L36Driver said:


> That's it right there..........................................Good Old Nick!


I have a "Nick the Grinder" too. I think I got it from Northern Tool 8-9 years back. Works okay for what I do with it.


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## Philbert (Jan 26, 2015)

Duty Cycle Surprise!

Thought that this was interesting. Looking for the Amps rating on a chain grinder today at Menard's: Duty Cycle is 2 minutes '_ON_' 8 minutes '_OFF_'.

20% sounds like a cheap welder. On a 0.8 Amp grinder it sounds like the motor was designed for 'AA' batteries!

Philbert


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## mt.stalker (Jan 26, 2015)

These grinders require so much attention to detail, to keep the cutters length the same , adjusting the angle constantly , holding the chain still with left hand , yadda yadda yadda , and still you end up with a chain that's slower and dulls quicker . Proper filing by hand is much quicker and easier after every tank full . Keep those hooks sharp !!! Flock , you can't even get a good hook with grinding


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## Bret4207 (Jan 28, 2015)

You're right stalker. But when Joe Homeowner rocks his chain cutting down that "huge" 12 foot tall soft maple in his yards with his Walmart saw and brings you the chain, it gets the job done so you can finish up with a file.


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## smokey7 (Jan 28, 2015)

Ok so i finally got around to using my old style hf grinder. I got it from the cristmas giving thread. The orange one with a lever lock system. I took the back stop for the cutter stop i flipped it up and made a 16 ga piece a total of 1/2" wide by 1" long. The 1" goes long ways with the existing stop, then tapped it and drilled for 4-40 screws, to contact either cutter right or left. Mine wanted to slip off the left hand ones. This is the first change i found it needed right away


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## Philbert (Jan 28, 2015)

Photos? We like pictures!

Thanks.

Philbert


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## smokey7 (Jan 28, 2015)

I will try to get pictures of it this evening going to have to clean it off it works great


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## 67L36Driver (Jan 28, 2015)

Mine is sinful dirty. Trip to the laundry tub in order.


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## Philbert (Jan 28, 2015)

*Grinding Wheel Variability*

I want to mount a 3/16 inch thickness wheel on the HF grinders, for .325 and standard 3/8 pitch chain. I found a few wheels, different brands: some a few dollars each, some $10 - $12 each, some $26 - almost the cost of the grinders!!! But I was surprised by the variability between grinders, and grinding wheels, all labeled '_7/8 inch arbor_'.

Some wheels fit on one grinder, but not the other. Some wheels had a very sloppy fit. With a dial caliper I roughly measured as much as 3/64" difference in arbor hole diameters between different wheels. Some were not quite round. I could sand/grind the larger plastic arbor on one grinder down to the diameter of the smaller one, but then the larger arbor wheels won't fit right. I could try to shim/bush the larger diameter holes, but this would not be very convenient when changing wheels for different chains.

Some of this variation can be attributed to the quality of these tools and accessories. Combined with the screws on the wheel guards, users should probably not expect to frequently change grinding wheels. Maybe at this price, they buy one grinder for each size wheel?

I have not experienced this problem on larger grinders using Oregon, Tecomec, or Molemab branded wheels. The smaller Oregon 310 grinder, due Spring 2015, comes with both 1/8 and 3/16 wheels (not sure if standard or as accessories) - so they must have addressed this consistency, at least with their branded accessories.

Philbert


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## Philbert (Jan 31, 2015)

Philbert said:


> Worksite grinder chain groove. . . .I suppose some type of shims could be fitted to support the tie straps of the narrower chain.



Tried this. Traced shape of vise onto thin cardstock.




Cut this out of some 0.040" thick aluminum from the scrap pile, bringing the effective slot width to around 0.080" (I don't expect to run any harvester chain through this grinder).




Attached it with some double-stick tape.




3/8 low pro chain slides better in both directions, after pulling it back-and-forth to seat the shim (although, it still has to be lifted from the plastic groove at the other end of the vise - now shown). Not sure how long it will last. This was a quick-and-dirty attempt to see if it would work - easy to remove or replace. Grinder is still a sow's ear.

Philbert


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## 67L36Driver (Feb 13, 2015)

My 'Nick the Grinder' after a visit to the laundry tub.



Has a simple angle iron adaptor for the bench vice.



I got him free from a forum member here local.

THANKS STEVE!!!


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## Onan18 (Feb 13, 2015)

I bought one of the cheap, (think $19.95) models from Northern Tool when I first started. Total waste of money, loud, vibrated excessively, got hot quick, poor clamping mechanism, quickly upgraded to an Oregon, worth every penny. A buddy of mine has a Harbor Freight model and it is adequate, much better than the POS I got at Northern.

Joe


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## Jeff Lary (Mar 17, 2015)

Philbert had to help me get here cause my feeble brain could not find this thread and I wanted to read it. At least now I should be able to find my way back. Jeff


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## Jeff Lary (Mar 18, 2015)

So i just read the entire thread i say good job done by all. It is hard to keep on topic this far in eyerone still behaving and all.
From the ones i have see so far the Sharpener with Auto Feed looks like the best to me?( Post 117) I dont know who makes it maybe Quick Feed ? anyway i am heading out to google it up. It may cost a bunch but i will know that soon i guess.
I just took home a Husky 450 with 5 chains owned by a very nice but inexperienced user here at work so that i could sharpen his chains for him, i did them last spring too. One of the five had been used i think to cut Granite slabs !! holy smoke baaaad bad. I wish i had a grinder when i got to that one. Thanks for posting all the info i dont know if i will ever buy one but i have a lot more information now than i did before.


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## Philbert (Mar 18, 2015)

Jeff Lary said:


> From the ones i have see so far the Sharpener with Auto Feed looks like the best to me?


I think that that model had the best demonstrator using it. Not sure what kind of edge it puts on chains - i.e. how well they cut afterwards. Let us know if you get one.

My current thought is '_simpler is better_' with these inexpensive grinders. I am curious to see what the new Oregon model (Post#132) will look/work like - if it will be a higher quality grinder that can serve as a serious alternative to the 511A type grinders.

Philbert


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## Jeff Lary (Mar 18, 2015)

Well I went right out and Googled it up and in the reviews one caught my eye fast. Basically it said I bought mine with the auto feed system, if I were to do it again I would not buy that option. He went on to say that you had to fiddle with it a bunch to get it to feed correctly. He said that you really have to practice how hard to move the mechanism that moves the chain or it would not move it far enough or too far. He said by the time he messed with it enough to get the feed right he could have feed it by hand faster. 
I wondered how you got all that movement to go the correct distance?? and end up under the wheel where it should be. For a while I was a saw filer for a larger lumber company here in Maine. I used a couple big saw sharpener machines one for my 6' gang saws and one for my 40' double cut band saw. They both were operated by VERY precise cams that lowered the wheel and moved to the saw to the next tooth at the exact correct time. I can tell you with all the confidence anyone here could ever want, Most if not all of these grinders were being used WAY WAY WAY to aggressively. I would say they were on average removing 20-40 thousands' per chop. I would suggest 10 thousands per drop and no more.

You should try my rule of thumb lets call it the rule of sparks.

Pretend you have been tasked to count the sparks given off by each drop of the Grinding wheel. Lets say there are 3 settings on your grinder .First setting is 20 sparks, for a lite touch up and back into production. Second setting is 30 sparks, the chain was rocked and you are trying to get it back into shape without over heating the chain. This may have to run through the chain twice maybe more. Third setting is 50 sparks, broken teeth and the saw will be completely re profiled and stated over again only on band saws and gang saws never on a chainsaw chain. This is a case where less is more WAY more. Remember if you had to count the sparks you wouldn't want to make too many now would ya? This is an exaggeration but you should get my line of thought. Jeff


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## Philbert (Mar 18, 2015)

I get it. A lot of guys say that '_grinders take off too much_'. But they only take off as much as you let them. 

If you have a really rocked, or uneven chain, a lot of the cutter has to be ground back to remove the damage, or to even up the edges from the uneven filing. Blame it on the grinder (machine), when they should blame it on the grinder (operator)!

I like the idea of '_counting sparks'_!

Philbert


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## smokey7 (Mar 18, 2015)

Yep i use a dry surface grinder and have to hold .0001 with verying temp it is very very hard. Youbcan do it on a wet one all day. I just find it easier to fix a damaged chain and take alot off in a few pases that would never hapen with a file so the chain is way better but life is shorter jmho


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## Jeff Lary (Mar 18, 2015)

Yes I don't mean to say well you fellas just don't know. But the truth in many things is this, a awful lot of people make you tube videos and very few no matter the subject have a clue what they are doing. If you are new to something and follow one of these jabronies well bad teaching bad ya know.


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## Jeff Lary (Mar 18, 2015)

Philbert said:


> I get it. A lot of guys say that '_grinders take off too much_'. But they only take off as much as you let them.
> 
> If you have a really rocked, or uneven chain, a lot of the cutter has to be ground back to remove the damage, or to even up the edges from the uneven filing. Blame it on the grinder (machine), when they should blame it on the grinder (operator)!
> 
> ...


If you get into the habit of hearing tic tic zing next tooth tic tic zing you will see how the amount of sparks thrown are close to the same each tooth. They will look the same be thrown the same distance form the same cone shape. I think.


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## lambs (Mar 18, 2015)

I grind most of my chain, and I like to see the wheel kiss the cutter, after which I shine a tiny LED flashlight on the cutter surface to see if the wheel got all the way across the cutter, then adjust from there. That method works fine for me so long as the cutters are not dinged....that's a different story, but a I can tell you a CBN wheel will remove the damage quickly, and if it's a cyclone style wheel, without a lot of overheating.


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## smokey7 (Mar 19, 2015)

Well i hope i am not a jabronie. I was talking about the hf grinder and how easy it is to take alot of way faster than with a file. The hf grinder works decent for a damaged chain but takes patience.


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## Jeff Lary (Mar 19, 2015)

It is like Philbert says it is up to the operator how much gets removed per grind. It is not the machines fault when a chain gets over heated / temper removed. Or when a new chain only gets 4 sharpening's then its time for another new one.
I was actually thinking of a you tube video about garden tractor seat replacement. I had been looking for a suitable seat for my wheel horse tractor and followed a link to a guy that taped a cat food bag over his seat and called it replacement. There are some strange folks out there I tell ya what !


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## smokey7 (Mar 27, 2015)

Well back to the hf non brake handle machine. I have modified the stop to remove the play and widen it for use on fullvsize 3/8 chain. But i noticed the new wheels hf carries is no longer the 60 grit porus wheel vthe new does not quote grit butbitvis finer for sure and made a huge differencevto my machine. I am very happy with it now. Weather it be a new style hf wheel or a better brand i think it is worth using a good wheel. Or atleast better then item 91903 60 grit. Give it a try guys much better finish i dont even touch with a file anymore. Good luck to us bargan shoppers.


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## 67L36Driver (Mar 27, 2015)

Wheel item #68243, 100 grit any good?
Got a spare at the HF store in N KC.


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## smokey7 (Mar 27, 2015)

Yea that is the number i have i didnt see the grit at my quick look. It is way better it think. I take light passes anyways and almost always go round twice or more


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## 67L36Driver (Mar 27, 2015)

Yeah, lite grind on the first pass to see how bad the chain is and the second to clean up ninty percent of the usual mess. The really bad cutters will catch up eventually.

Iive had some that were filed so low they resembled fish hooks.


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## smokey7 (Mar 27, 2015)

irunner I'm to the point where they start stripping teath off in a row


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## Philbert (Mar 27, 2015)

67L36Driver said:


> Iive had some that were filed so low they resembled fish hooks.





smokey7 said:


> irunner I'm to the point where they start stripping teath off in a row



Photos!!!

Philbert


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## smokey7 (Mar 27, 2015)

I am terrible at posting photos and computers


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## 67L36Driver (Mar 27, 2015)

I'll have to remember to do before/after pics. on the next one.


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## Philbert (Jul 31, 2015)

*Oregon 310-120 Grinder*

Started a separate thread on the new Oregon 310 grinder here:
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/oregon-310-mini-grinder.283691/#post-5474287

It is very similar in appearance to several of the grinders in this thread, but sells for a bit more - $85-$90, so it is pushing the limits of this thread, but will be comparing it to some of these grinders, and wanted to post the link.

Philbert


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## Wood Doctor (Aug 1, 2015)

Here is a bargain Oregon 511 clone grinder: Laser Electric Chain Sharpener / Grinder w/ Work Light, Mod No. 47227.
It's a steal at e-bay for $120. They even throw in two grinding wheels. The Chinese can clone just about anything. It's almost scary. I decided to buy one of these to take to the field and attach to my portable grinding station that runs off of a car battery. Dang thing works.


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## Big_Wood (Aug 2, 2015)

c5rulz said:


> You are my hero!



LOL i should rephrase this even though it's old. when i said i sold it to some hack here i meant locally. wouldn't that be a prick thing to do to sell something for nearly double to a guy on AS then post about it in a grinder thread  i gots me a silvey now but one thing i realized with the 511ax was that it wouldn't grind teeth the same from side to side. i've seen many post about this issue as well. turns out the vice gauge was out on mine. i never moved it or anything but took note of how much it was out (think it was 3 degrees IIRC) and compensated for it. made both sides dead on. i realized quickly that i could file chain by hand just as good as these grinders can grind so sold it off.


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## Justsaws (Aug 2, 2015)

Both folks that I knew that were using the HF grinders and struggling have moved on to the Oregon Power Sharp setups for the little saws. They could not be happier, unless you ask them about the cost, the HF is a much better bargain if the operator can use it.

As grinders go the HF setups can do a decent job but rely heavily on the operator, much more so than more expensive grinders do. I used one to sharpen 3/8, .325 and Lo-Pro and it is much much slower but the results were workable. It was best on the Lo-Pro then the .325, the 3/8 was similar to using a file that was to small. Worked but not at all optimal chain usage. As was mentioned earlier the built in flex of the machine was helpful but requires diligent attention for a consistent chain.

While I do not own a grinder from HF I do have one that is branded Homier(truckload sales) which is extremely similar to the HF grinders that I tried out. If cash was tight and I needed to sharpen a lot of Lo-Pro or .325 I would get one with a few spare wheels. Does not matter what brand the little grinder wheels disappear fast.

Should note that the grinders were orange and had the flip clamp on the base not the brake handle on the swing arm. The Homier is blackish with red parts, I think the arbor is 1/2 versus 7/8.


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## Wood Doctor (Aug 3, 2015)

OK, men, I have now got the $120 Laser, an Oregon 511 clone, working better. If you decide to buy one of these, be prepared to bench mount it. similar to the Speed Sharp or 511a. I made a T-shaped hardwood bracket that allows me to use my bench vise to hold the chain 45" above the floor. The shelf perch should be no deeper than 5-1/2" for this sharpener to provide clearance for the knob that locks the sharpening angle.

There were some engineering corners cut here and there, but you have to expect that for the bargain price. Here are my findings and enhancements:
(1) The motor draws half as much current but runs at the same RPM. I notice no power reduction compared to the 511a, and it has the same low noise level. I'm not sure how the Chinese accomplished this magic.
(2) There were no assembly or operating instructions in the box. There might be some on line somewhere.
(3) You have to remove the L-shaped hinge catch in the back to install or remove the grinding wheel. Otherwise, the clearance is inadequate. I carefully filed the catch down in thickness to increase the height when up by over an inch.
(4) I removed the strong compression spring under the clamp knob that locks the sharpening angle and the vise and replaced it with a common 7/16" steel washer. That works better than the spring which prevented it from locking the vise tight.
(5) I see no way to reduce the gap between the vise jaws. They worked OK for 063 gauge.
(6) There were detents at popular sharpening angles. That I liked.
(7) There were two slant angle gauges, one on the back and the other on the front. I liked that, but there was a 2-degree error in their readings. The one on the back reads 2 degrees lower.
(8) The cam mechanism that locks the chain in the vise initially worked far better on one side than the other, but after sharpening several chains, it somehow broke in and now locks the same on both sides. Sigh of relief.

I have now successfully sharpened six chains with it, all different sizes. So, with these enhancements, it's a keeper. Not the same quality as Speed Sharp or Oregon, but for less than one-third the price, it's hard to be too critical. Needless to say, after getting a few bugs out as documented above, this Laser beats my old HF sharpener (that someone gave me a few years back) seven ways to Sunday.


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## c5rulz (Aug 3, 2015)

lambs said:


> That Silvey sticker turned you into a true professional!
> 
> Nice review.




Philbert should be smited by the God's for the blasphemy.


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## Wood Doctor (Aug 3, 2015)

Hard to believe, and I assure you that I'm not selling these sharpeners. E-bay just sent me an update that the Laser grinder could now be had for $110.

I wonder if I am being tracked by Internet.


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## Justsaws (Aug 4, 2015)

NSA, they saw laser and alerted EBay.


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## Philbert (Aug 4, 2015)

'_Cookies_' are not just things left by chainsaw testing . . . 

Philbert


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## Philbert (Aug 8, 2015)

*Back to the Mini-Grinders*


Philbert said:


> *Oregon 310-120 Grinder*
> Started a separate thread on the new Oregon 310 grinder here:
> http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/oregon-310-mini-grinder.283691/#post-5474287



Side-by-side comparison with a similar looking '_HF-type_' grinder. Posted most of this in the other thread, but adding it here to keep things straight.

In use, both grinders performed about the same. These are still light duty grinders, best for touch up sharpening, especially on smaller pitch chains. Simple, convenient, require a light touch and patience. Could be OK for an occasional user who does not want to pay for a more expensive grinder. Anyone expecting to open a sharpening service with one of these, to quickly bring back a rocked chain, or to use regularly on .404 chain - good luck.

A 1/4 inch wheel is available for the Oregon grinder for doing depth gauges, but they are expensive relative to the cost of these grinders ($25), and switching wheels is not convenient, so I did not try it. I suppose one could could buy an extra HF grinder and dedicate it to depth gauges?

Can't say anything about longevity, etc., but the Oregon one does come with a 2 year warranty, and they have always been very good to me with customer support. One wheel was defective out of the box, and they mailed me a replacement.

Advantages of the Oregon 310 (right) over my '_Infinity_' brand 'HF-style' grinder (left):
- cast aluminum base, instead of plastic;
- larger, more effective chain holding dog on the vise;
- accessible motor brushes;
- came with additional 3/16" grinding wheel, dressing brick, wheel template, extra motor brushes;
- better (but not perfect) owner's manual;
- Oregon support (if needed).



All things equal, I would choose the Oregon over the generic grinder. But the generic HF grinders are often available on eBay, etc. (even Home Depot.com!) for around $40 (although, I have seen them advertised for as much as $160 in some ads!) which is part of their attraction. The Oregon is a new product and only listed by a few on-line vendors, although, I am sure that any Oregon dealer can order them. Current prices are in the $85 - $90 range. Some of this difference can be attributed to the advantages noted. Maybe some of this difference will dampen out in comparable sales channels as more vendors and discounters start carrying the 310?

Anyway, these are the styles that I like the most of those that I have looked at and reviewed in this thread. Within their limits, they can be used to sharpen chains. None of them will replace my full-sized grinder in terms of power and versatility. I will probably hang onto these 2 for a while and continue to 'play' with them, maybe try them for portable use, etc.

Philbert


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## Philbert (Aug 9, 2015)

I should add this here too. I have 3 grinders that hold the grinding wheel in place with the identical 'flange mounting knob'. None of the manuals specify which side faces the grinding wheel, and I guess that I was doing it wrong on all three! 

If you look closely at the illustrations, they all show the 'dished' side in and the 'flat' side out. So I am passing that on. I also labeled mine with my label maker, so that I don't have to think about this again.





Philbert


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## Philbert (Aug 11, 2015)

The ID on one of the _made-in-China_ grinding wheels (left) that came with my Oregon 310 grinder was too large. Oregon was very good and sent me a replacement wheel right away; it was their standard _made-in-Italy _wheels (right), which I had expected to come on an Oregon product. Tonight, I tried it on the same chains.




Wow! *BIG* difference!

Earlier in this thread I mentioned looking for other 3/16 wheels for the HF grinders, and even mused about adapting angle grinder wheels (not something I encourage). Having used these once, it will be hard to go back. I assume that the difference would apply to all of the grinders covered in this thread. 

At $20 to $30 each (retail pricing), this takes some of the 'fun' out of a $30 - $40 grinder. But it makes sense - these are the part that does the cutting, just like a sharp chain on a modest saw. Molemab wheels from Bailey's might be an option at about $10 each.

Philbert


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## MustangMike (Aug 12, 2015)

Did not have time to read the whole thread, but was wondering, can those cheap HF grinders be adjusted to sharpen square file chain?

Thanks.


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## Philbert (Aug 12, 2015)

MustangMike said:


> Did not have time to read the whole thread, but was wondering, can those cheap HF grinders be adjusted to sharpen square file chain?


No. (short answer).

The head tilt angle is fixed, and they have less adjustability than a basic 511A type grinder. Even if you decided to design your own square chisel chain grinder, these would not be good motors to use, due to limited power and small diameter wheels (which get dressed to a sharp point for square chain). You would be better off starting with a full sized grinder motor, or even better, one that accepts the standard 8-inch OD 1-inch ID square grind wheels. (long answer).

(Though it did cross my mind once . . . )

Philbert


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## Philbert (Aug 18, 2015)

*Chicago Electric Revisited*

I used the Chicago Electric grinder with the bicycle grip handle for the first time in a while. 
Sharpened/touched up a 3/8 low profile (type 91) chain with it, and got adequate results. But I am now better able to compare it to 'competitive' grinders.



I like _the idea_ of the brake handle but it does not hold the chain as secure; is kind of sloppy, even with my tweaks (and the 'Silvey' labels); and is more complex (more things to go wrong) than the similar models with the locking lever. Typically, I had to squeeze the handle twice for each cutter: once to position it (it moves quite a bit), and a second time to grasp it for grinding.

It's also harder to observe the grinding process - I suppose I could remove the clear 'guard', as I doubt it does much. And the star wheels at the ends of the vise make the chain harder to advance - more of a problem than a help.

Again, it sort of 'works', but not as well as the older versions, which are still available with other brand names/labels, for about the same price. If I found a '_dead_' grinder of the old style (burned up motor, cracked base, etc.) I would switch out the vise: it would be an improvement, but not worth the effort to fabricate the parts.

Philbert


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## Philbert (Sep 8, 2015)

*Garage Sale Find*

(Future _Silvey_ grinder!)



(Curse you 7Sleeper for starting me on these!).

I just got some Molemab wheels on sale from Bailey's, so I will try them on these. Interesting to note that this Chicago Electric grinder has a grounded, 3-wire plug, while all of the others have 2-wire (double insulated?) cords.

Philbert


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## Philbert (Sep 9, 2015)

(The Good): _Metal_ arbor and flange mounting nuts!

(The Bad): Tiny screws holding cover/guard already starting to strip out.

Philbert


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## Philbert (Sep 9, 2015)

Philbert said:


> Interesting to note that this Chicago Electric grinder has a grounded, 3-wire plug, while all of the others have 2-wire (double insulated?) cords.



Just saw one that looks identical on CraigsList, except that it has a 2-wire, polarized plug. Lots of variations!

Philbert


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## Philbert (Sep 16, 2015)

*First Use (for me) - Future Silvey Grinder*

This is the one that started it all, so to speak! Even though it was '_used'_, it was never properly '_tweaked_'. I cleaned it (our own dirt is different than other peoples' dirt); trimmed off all the sharp flashing with a razor blade; wrapped the center post with aluminum tape (makes cleaning off grinder grit easier); mounted it on a wooden base, so that I can clamp it to work surfaces; and added a Velcro strap to coil up the cord when not in use.

Interesting that the grinding wheel on this, older model, is much better than the ones that come on the newer models - closer to the Molemab and Oregon wheels. Just needed to be dressed.



The vise did not hold the chain well. In fact, the chain positioning stop or dog hit the cutter off center, near the top, and lifted the cutter out of the vise. And the entire cutter shifted to the side, when tightened. The chain did not flow smoothly out of the end of the vise.

- I squeezed the rolled end of the positioning stop with a pair of Vise-Grips (no pun intended) slowly and gradually, until it fit on the mounting post without wobbling, but not so tight that it binds;

- I shimmed the mounting post for the stop with a washer so that it no longer wobbled, and so that it hit the cutter closer to its center;

- I bent the flat metal stop slightly, so that it reached over the tie strap bumper, touching the cutter at its base, instead of near its top;

- I cleaned off some burrs on the inside of the vise clamping plates that interfered with chain flow.




Still a cheap grinder, but now it is a _happy_ cheap grinder. Works as intended.

Philbert


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## 67L36Driver (Sep 16, 2015)

If anyone has a loose (extra) chain stop bar like above I can use one. Too many collisions with the spinning wheel has made mine problematic.


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## Philbert (Sep 18, 2015)

Philbert said:


> Interesting that the grinding wheel on this, older model, is much better than the ones that come on the newer models - closer to the Molemab and Oregon wheels. Just needed to be dressed.



Different 'Chicago Electric' brand wheels, similar to the different Oregon' branded wheels shown in Post #188, above. The older on one on the Right works much better than the newer one on the Left.




Philbert


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## Philbert (Sep 18, 2015)

*When is '7/8' not '7/8' ?*
_
Sesame Street_ taught us "_one of these things is not like the other . . ._ " Frustrating when it comes to grinding wheels.

Most of these _'HF-style_' mini-grinders use wheels described as _4-1/8-inch diameter, 7/8-inch arbo_r. Since a lot of these grinders and wheels are made in Europe or Asia, the metric conversion is important- about 105 mm X 22.3 mm.

If only they were consistent!

I have now tried 4 of these HF-style grinders, and several brands of wheels, and found _lots_ of variation. If the outer diameter (OD) of the wheel is slightly larger or smaller, it is not a problem, unless it is so large that it hits something. If the width of the wheel (1/8", 3/16", 1/4") is slightly wider or narrower, I probably won't notice it in use or in the final results (unless the wheel will not physically fit under the mounting nut or side guard).

But if the mounting hole (ID) of the grinding wheel is too small, it will not fit on the arbor. If it is too large, it will not run true (unless bushed - has its own issues). Unfortunately, I have found lots of variation in the arbor sizes of the grinders, and the wheels themselves.

_Sample of 2 grinding wheels that are supposed to have the same ID. One fits one grinder, the other fits the other 3. Note the white ring of the blotter on the smaller ID wheel.
_



7/8-inch equals 0.875-inches or 22.225mm. Using a dial caliper, I measured arbors and grinding ID's ranging from 0.863 to 0.920 inches. A range of 57 thousands of an inch (not quite 1/16 of an inch) - not bad for carpentry work, but pretty embarrassing for machine work.

Holes are difficult to measure accurately with a caliper, and I have hammy hands, so these numbers might be slightly off. But simply put: Some wheels will not physically fit onto some grinders. Some wheels will fit so sloppily that they will not run true, even if bushed or shimmed. I have had grinding wheels explode, so I do not recommend being careless about this.

Be careful when buying wheels, and check to see if they fit. I have had to return some. _It is disappointing that I cannot buy wheels of any brand, like I can buy any brand of saw chain, and know that it will fit, if it is labeled the correct size._ Can't even be sure by brand - have to test fit each one.

I have really liked the coarser, pink Oregon and Molemab wheels on these grinders, but they do not fit one model, so I will either have to part with that grinder, or see if I can re-size the larger mounting arbor on that model.

Philbert


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## 67L36Driver (Sep 21, 2015)

Meh!
Looking for the chain stop thingy for my 'Nick The Grinder' I discovered an add on evilbay for one for $173. Yikes! http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kettenscharfer-Nick-the-Grinder-/121054308104?hash=item1c2f662708


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## Philbert (Sep 21, 2015)

Do you just need the short, metal piece?

Might be easier to cut a strip out of a piece of steel. Or cut off a piece from a cheap strap hinge, if you want the mounting hole pre-formed. 

The chain stops on the Oregon grinders, including the 310 mini-grinder, are stamped into a "U" shape. Would be easy to make this style from a short piece of "U" channel from the hardware store. 

The support post could be made out of a small piece of hardwood if needed.

Philbert


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## 67L36Driver (Sep 21, 2015)

What caught my eye is the wide spade like end that contacts the cutter. Mine has been nibbled on quite a bit.


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## Philbert (Oct 11, 2015)

Philbert said:


> (Future _Silvey_ grinder!)



The variations and surprises continue . . . . Tried to mount a 3/16 inch Molemab wheel on the older style Chicago Electric grinder, with the steel flange nut, and there are just not enough threads there! Had to mount the flange nut backward. Arbor also needed to be bushed slightly. Should not be surprised - these types of variations and quality control issues are what define a cheap tool. Because I have several (now) I have learned that I cannot expect things to always work as expected with these, nor are things always the same or interchangeable.

You would not think that a 1/16 of an inch thicker wheel should make that much of a difference. It should not be that hard for a company to spec a slightly longer arbor - plenty of clearance inside the guards.

Philbert


----------



## farmerward (Oct 11, 2015)

Philbert said:


> *First Use (for me) - Future Silvey Grinder*
> 
> This is the one that started it all, so to speak! Even though it was '_used'_, it was never properly '_tweaked_'. I cleaned it (our own dirt is different than other peoples' dirt); trimmed off all the sharp flashing with a razor blade; wrapped the center post with aluminum tape (makes cleaning off grinder grit easier); mounted it on a wooden base, so that I can clamp it to work surfaces; and added a Velcro strap to coil up the cord when not in use.
> 
> ...


What is the best way to dress a grinding wheel?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Philbert (Oct 11, 2015)

farmerward said:


> What is the best way to dress a grinding wheel?


I use a coarse, silicon carbide dressing stick or brick to shape the profile, and to periodically expose fresh abrasive.

Most of the Oregon grinders come with a small brick, or you can buy a replacement from Bailey's, et.al for about $6 - $10.



You can also buy a larger one for about the same price at many hardware, home center, farm stores, near the grinding wheels, and break it down into smaller pieces.

Philbert


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## backhoelover (Oct 11, 2015)

I DIDNT LIKE MINE


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## Philbert (Oct 11, 2015)

backhoelover said:


> I DIDNT LIKE MINE


It's an acquired taste . . . .

You can always put it up on a local Craig'sList for $10 to $20, or offer it in one of the '_Christmas Giving_' threads, when they start up again.

Philbert


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## Stihl 041S (Oct 11, 2015)

farmerward said:


> What is the best way to dress a grinding wheel?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


A Norbide from Norton or a knock off will never wear out


----------



## 67L36Driver (Oct 12, 2015)

backhoelover said:


> I DIDNT LIKE MINE



Part that puppy out!

I can use the chain stop..........[emoji6]


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## xPosTech (Oct 13, 2015)

backhoelover said:


> I DIDNT LIKE MINE


I had some complaints with mine, too. Mainly with the bicycle clamp. They just didn't think it through.

Mine (ITEM 68221) had springs on the top two screws of the plate that locks against the drive links. Not on the bottom screw. The plate would therefore move forward bottom first till it contacted the DL, thereby pushing the cutter up off the rails - not much but enough that I was uncomfortable with the clamp.

I first tried adding a spring (ballpoint pen) to the bottom screw. It moved a little better but sometimes the top of the plate would just touch the bottom of the cutter forcing it up - not much but . . . So I filed a slight 45° bevel on the top edge of the plate. It helped but not much.

I think I would have accepted these flaws knowing I spent only thirty bucks for it if it had been consistent. But it wasn't. Maybe every third or fourth cutter would jump up.

I even tried lubing the cable with . . . cable lube. I used to rebuild bikes for disadvantaged kids and still had some in the shop. Of course the lube didn't help.

BUT I came across an old quick release seat post clamp. I'm sure everyone has seen them. They use an eccentric to quickly clamp and release using a cam action. It looks as if made for the purpose of sending that plate to the driver link.

One problem of the cable clamp was that the end of the cable at the yellow knob acted as a pivot so the plate would decide going in which way it wanted to go. And the pivot changed when swiveling for the other side of the chain.

I couldn't get the cable clamp off fast enough. The base of the eccentric just fits between the top of the plate and the bottom screw. That large base is what keeps the plate parallel to the driver link. It works like a charm. Made all the difference in the world.

I'll try to get some pix up but my HughesNet is not trying to be too friendly this afternoon. Here is one from Amazon - about 4-5 bucks. Just search for "bicycle quick release seat post clamp".







Ted


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## Philbert (Oct 13, 2015)

I posted above that I like the simple, lever-clamp style vises much better than the bicycle brake type. But, since I started with the bike vise, I also tried to optimize it (Posts #81-84). 

One thing that helped was beveling the edges of the movable vise, and adjacent sections, so that they nested together in a smoother, less precise way. That reduced some of the hang ups. I find that I still need to '_double clutch_' the vise - once to grab the drive link, and a second time to seat it properly.

I like the other vises much better.

Philbert


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## xPosTech (Oct 13, 2015)

Yes I also was double clutching the brake lever after closely watching the cutter. But sometimes the cutter would rise up a bit and the next one wouldn't move at all. If they all moved up a bit I wouldn't complain, but it seemed they all had a mind of their own. I even tried holding the cutter down with my finger while squeezing the lever. I could feel the cutter wanting to rise. This was because the bottom of the vise plate moved ahead of the top (side view like: \ ), which put a lifting movement on the cutter.

The quick clamp I had replaced the cable exactly. Right diameter, right length, etc.

So does anybody want a brake lever?

Ted


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## Philbert (Oct 13, 2015)

I have actually been keeping my eye out for a 'dead', old style HF grinder at garage sales, to swap vises. All I have found are complete, working ones for $10 - $15!

Philbert


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## xPosTech (Oct 13, 2015)

You don't really have to swap vises, just the clamp. Or do you suspect you might be getting GAD?  

Ted


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## Philbert (Oct 13, 2015)

_Chronic_ GAD. Easy to do with cheap grinders! Some of my grinders cost less than a loop of chain! Actually '_SAD_', since I am fascinated by files, guides, Dremels, etc. too!



xPosTech said:


> You don't really have to swap vises, just the clamp.



I was thinking about swapping vices so that I would have the continuous metal clamping rails on both sides. Your 'hack' is interesting - swapping bike seat post clamps for bike brake parts! I used those on my low tech filing vises.
http://www.arboristsite.com/coommunity/threads/philberts-low-tech-filing-vise.245004/

How do you think it would work on The other style vises, compared to the reposition-able turn levers.

Philbert


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## xPosTech (Oct 13, 2015)

Hmmm. I didn't realize the older ones had full length vises. Guess I need to reread this thread.

I'm off for some homework re: the other style.

Ted


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## xPosTech (Oct 13, 2015)

I went back and skimmed the thread. Now I see the full length vise. Had to download the manual for the older grinder to see what was going on. That clamp (I think) uses a circular ramp around the bolt to apply the "pull" of the clamp. About a half revolution or so?

I don't think it would hold up to as many on/off cycles as the flip over quick release kind. Just MHO.

I have to agree with you though. The full length vise should clamp down on the multiple driver links better than the single driver link of the newer style vise. I think that the long vise with the quick release flip over clamp would be best of all.

I'm gonna look hard at my vise tomorrow. It's getting late and I'm scared of the dark.

Ted


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## 67L36Driver (Oct 14, 2015)

Somewhere back is a picture of my 'Nick The Grinder'. It has a 'full length' vice and the clamp lever/screw is adjustable for whatever guage chain you feed it.

The more I see of the newer improved(?) models or copies the more I like my old one (freebie).


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## xPosTech (Oct 14, 2015)

Yup today's "New and Improved" models usually mean that a product was modified to reduce the cost of production. Metal is replaced with plastic, machined parts replaced with stamped, etc. That a product no longer does the job as well as a previous model doesn't seem to matter to the bean counters. Not too many products made like a Henry rifle these days.

Ted


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## xPosTech (Oct 14, 2015)

Trying to upload two pix of installed quick release clamp on my grinder. Couldn't do it with Tapatalk so tried to move them from my phone to my tablet with Airdroid. That also failed. Had to email them to myself. Jumping through hoops here.





The older I get the less time I can spend waiting while HughesNet uploads pix so I had to use thumbnails. Maybe they'll suffice.

Ted


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## Philbert (Oct 14, 2015)

Those photos worked for me. 

I think that they were trying to add a "_self-clamping_" feature. But they are better sticking with something simple. 

Philbert


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## 67L36Driver (Oct 14, 2015)

That looks like a worthwhile mod for my 'Nick'. Provided it's cheap![emoji12]


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## xPosTech (Oct 14, 2015)

67L36Driver said:


> That looks like a worthwhile mod for my 'Nick'. Provided it's cheap![emoji12]


Many different styles/colors on Amazon. Most under five bucks.

I think wally world has them, too.

Ted


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## Philbert (Oct 14, 2015)

I scanned through most of this thread last night (!), and most of the responses have been fairly consistent.

These grinders can be convenient for light, touch-up type sharpening, and may meet the needs for some users who don't want or can't afford a larger, more expensive grinder. They are not for everyone.

The simpler models are better.

I also noticed several comments I made about the grinding wheels:

- There are _big_ differences between wheels, and most of these grinders would benefit from better quality grinding wheels (Molemab, Oregon, etc.).

- The ability to mount a 3/16 inch wheel is important, in my mind, if you are sharpening larger pitch chains.

- Changing wheels is not as convenient on these grinders as on full-size grinders. They may be better suited for people who only use one size wheel, or who are willing to have separate, cheap, mini-grinders for different size wheels.

Philbert


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## CR888 (Oct 14, 2015)

Just thought l'd ask here about sharpening attachments for the 511series style grinders. l know stihl offers an attachment for sharpening hedgetrimmer blades on their grinders. l have a 511 oregon copy and would love to be able to do hedgetrimmer blades for several hedgetrimmers l have. At the moment l dissmantle blades and use a stone on die grinder or by hand with raker file. To do a good job l have found usually a fair amount of metal needs to be taken off to return the sharpening edge back. Being able to use the chainsaw grinder would be fantastic, so anyone know of anything availible on the retail market? Thanks.


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## Philbert (Oct 14, 2015)

CR888 said:


> Just thought l'd ask here about sharpening attachments for the 511series style grinders.


Best to post this in one of the 511A threads (see a list in Post#2 of this thread). I know that Tecomec made an attachment for hedge trimmers, but the only guy I knew who used it did not like it. That is not a fair assessment of it, but you might be able to track one down.

Philbert


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## Creeker (Oct 15, 2015)

Philbert said:


> A lot of guys mentioned: slop in several places that needed to be bushed, lower quality wheels, and *wheel wobble*. Philbert



Re Wheel wobble, my $55 ebay model is quite well made, metal base/arm. When checking the rotation of the wheel after it is fitted & the grub screw tightened it has quite a wobble up, maybe close to 1mm or so. This means that with the motor turned on only part of the wheel contacts the tooth being sharpened.

Moving the wheel by hand no slackness can be detected in any direction.

Thinking it may have been the original 3/16" wheel I have just bough a new $15 wheel with no improvement.

Anyone got any clues as to how to get it running true, its got me beat ?


----------



## xPosTech (Oct 15, 2015)

Doesn't sound good. I would suspect a bent armature in the motor. Or at least one not running true. Not easy to fix unless you're comfortable working on small motors. Could also be a bad bearing or maybe debris where wheel mounts.

If it's the armature shaft a starter/generator shop could true it up but the cost might cost more than the grinder.

You could try truing the mount. Remove the wheel and lightly sand the wheel mount surface - pulse the motor so rpms don't get too high while sanding. For the other side of the mount place the sandpaper on a piece of glass or other level material. Sand both very lightly - inspect frequently. You should be able to see an totally even surface on both.

Note that if they were machined unevenly the sanding won't help. If it's a new grinder I would try getting the seller to replace it before attempting truing the armature or wheel mount.

Whatever you do, good luck with it. As I said, best thing would be replacement.

Ted


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## xPosTech (Oct 15, 2015)

Sounds like a bent armature or poorly machined wheel adapters/arbors or bad bearing. Or even debris on arbor.

If arbor is dirty/debris then lightly sanding might work. For the outside adapter try sandpaper on a pane of glass. Place adapter face down and sand lightly. Inspect often - you should see a totally even surface. For the inside, hold the sandpaper lightly against the surface and pulse the motor to keep the rpms down.

If it's the armature shaft a starter/generator shop could true it but cost might be prohibitive.

If it's a new grinder I would try getting the seller to replace it.

Whatever you do good luck. Let us know how it comes out.

Ted


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## Philbert (Oct 15, 2015)

If you remove the grinding wheel, you can check the shaft for wobble with a dial indicator. Lacking that, you can try to mount a piece of wire, or something, close to the arbor, and slowly turn the motor by hand, to see if any wobble is detectable. 

EDIT: Good point on taking it back, if the arbor is messed up, and it's still pretty new. Good reason to keep your receipts. The 'modest' quality control/assurance on these puts the '_cheap_' in 'cheap grinders'!

Dressing the wheel is easier. But sometimes, re-mounting the wheel will make a difference, due to an imperfection where it seats up against the flange. That should be tried first.

If the wheel is mounted and running, you can hold a dressing stone or brick against the rim to true/round the wheel.

Philbert


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## Creeker (Oct 15, 2015)

Well past return time, haven't used it for >12 months and just bought the new wheel to get it working again.

Back to hand filing which has stood me in good stead for many decades I guess.

Good points re remedying the problem gents, I will have a play round and see what I can work out although I feel it is just
cheap junk I have bought.........should have spend the $$'s in the first place.

Thanks again


----------



## xPosTech (Oct 16, 2015)

My apologies for the double post above. I had thought the ether had eaten the first one: I couldn't find it after posting. Even after posting the second and refreshing the thread I saw only the second.

I suspect my Cyanogen-Modded B&N Nook tablet was trying to sabotage me. I sometimes get some weird symptoms on this thing. :-(

Ted


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## Philbert (Oct 16, 2015)

I have troubles posting from my phone. Might start an '_HF cell phone_' thread . . . . 

Philbert


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## 67L36Driver (Oct 16, 2015)

Heh! I'm stuck with Sprint 'noservice'.

Times out on lots of pictures.[emoji37]


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## xPosTech (Oct 16, 2015)

It's a primitive tablet - no cell phone radio. It does have wifi so I can get online when my HughesNet thinks I am behaving and wants to reward me.

I have lots of power outages, so many I'm considering a standby Generac. I have a 5 KW generator, mainly for hurricanes, but I have to shell it outside and connect it manually. 

No natural gas service here. I'm in the sticks on Lake Sam Rayburn. I would have to get propane service. Another expense so I've been waffling about it.

Heh it's a nook but I have Kindle s/w on it. It's what I grab when power's out. No lamp needed when reading.

Sorry I got off topic.

Ted

Edit: I'm so far out I only get 1G or nothing.


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## Philbert (Dec 31, 2015)

Some related comments:

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/cheap-cahin-saw-sharpener.291327/

Philbert


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## Philbert (Apr 20, 2016)

*N.O.S. on CL*


They are so cute. Hard to pass up at garage sales, or on CL. 

I just hope that the arbor sizes are consistent, so that I can use the same MoleMab wheels, and post the other mini-grinders on CL. 

Philbert


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## LegDeLimber (Apr 20, 2016)

looks like grounds for another chapter in the grinders files!

What materials are the frame and vice, adjuster arm, etc made of?


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## Philbert (Apr 20, 2016)

LegDeLimber said:


> What materials are the frame and vice, adjuster arm, etc made of?


Mostly plastic and sheet metal! But the design is pretty simple, compared to the newer, 'bicycle hand grip' style. 

Philbert


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## 67L36Driver (May 6, 2016)

Just recieved a grinding wheel for my old 'Nick the Grinder'. 4 1/4" dia X 3/16" thick.
Bore measures .916" diameter. Way oversize for the nominal "7/8'" (.875).

Evilbay seller may get dinged over this.


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## 67L36Driver (May 6, 2016)

Fortunately I had a swatch of sheet copper .015" thick. Cut a strip 3/16" wide for a shim. Still vibrates more than I like but it's usable.


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## Philbert (May 6, 2016)

67L36Driver said:


> Just recieved a grinding wheel . . .Bore measures .916" . . .oversize for the nominal "7/8'" (.875).


 I noted this with some wheels. The I.D. seems to vary between some manufacturers. Likely, an issue with conversion between metric and imperial measurements?

I tried shimming the arbor for one with tape, but also got a lot of vibration. 

Better to stick with brands that you know will fit. 

Philbert


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## 67L36Driver (May 6, 2016)

First time buying a 3/16" wheel off evilbay. My local HF store only has the 1/8" thick.


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## Philbert (May 6, 2016)

67L36Driver said:


> My local HF store only has the 1/8" thick.


I bought Molemab wheels from Bailey's. Northern Tool and Menard's also carry some for TimberTuff and Roughneck grinders. And Oregon sells some too.
Trick #1 is that some grinders have different diameter arbors that fit those larger I.D. wheels.
Trick #2 is that some of the HF type grinders do not have enough thread on their arbors, or clearance under the side covers, for larger wheels. E.g. I could not mount a 1/4" wheel on one grinder that said you could.

Philbert


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## Khntr85 (May 21, 2016)

Well guys I have been given what I would call the older HF Chicago model grinder...now I have always sharpened by hand or the grandberg jig, so I have zero experience with an electric grinder.... However curiosity got the better of me and the first time trying this grinder I sharpened a 3/8 lo pro picco chain for my ms180... I must say I was absolutely shocked how sharp the chain was and how well it cut.... I mean I did go slow at first and used the "play" in the arm to gently "kiss" the cutters, and it actually turned out pretty darn good...

I have found out that if I use a 3/16 wheel I can sharpen .325 and 3/8 chain, so I am anxious to try and sharpen the bigger chain with this HF grinder...


----------



## Khntr85 (May 24, 2016)

Well guys I went to get a 3/16 wheel, and when I causally looked at the 1/8 and the 3/16 side by side, I went ahead and got the 1/8 wheel..... I sharpened a old chain for my ol trusty ms290 with the 1/8 wheel last blight and will see how it does today...

Now this chain is .325..... Do you guys like use the 1/8 or the 3/16 wheel for the .325 chain....

And just let me say that I do understand this HF grinder is what it is, so if nothing else i will use it to sharpen my 3/8 picco chain only, I mean hell the grinder was free, and I like sharpening chain, so win-win right!!!!!


----------



## 67L36Driver (May 25, 2016)

The 3/16" wheel is a vast improvement over my hand filing on my .404" and 7/16" chain.


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## Khntr85 (May 25, 2016)

Well I put my 290 into some ash logs I have laying around the house, and the chain I sharpened with the HF grinder..... Actually the chain did pretty damn good....I would like to know what it cut like with a 3/16 wheel....

Now to state the obvious, I can still sharpen the best with the file guide, and the grandberg, but if I am in a hurry this grinder will definitely work!!

Now you guys that have Oregon or the better grinders, do they honestly sharpen as good or close to hand filing??


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## Philbert (May 25, 2016)

Khntr85 said:


> Now you guys that have Oregon or the better grinders, do they honestly sharpen as good or close to hand filing??


Yes. 

Philbert


----------



## Khntr85 (May 25, 2016)

Philbert said:


> Yes.
> 
> Philbert



OK that's great...now I have been keeping my eye out for a good used grinder for a while.... I have heard the tecomec grinders are the same as the oregons..... Do any of you guys have the tecomec grinders???


----------



## Philbert (May 25, 2016)

Khntr85 said:


> Do any of you guys have the tecomec grinders???


Yes. 

Philbert


----------



## Philbert (May 25, 2016)

In all seriousness, *you* sharpen the chain. The grinder is just the tool. Good quality wheels help, and skill/experience is something that you develop. 

Philbert


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## 67L36Driver (May 25, 2016)

It occurred to me it would be good to have short samples of new chain on hand (two or four cutter length) for a reference.

I find the pictures in the books leave a lot to be desired.


----------



## Philbert (May 25, 2016)

New chain is a good reference to have, even to set up a grinder. Vendors like Bailey's will sell chain by the link (!) if you want to build a 'library'. 

Of course, one of the advantages of sharpening your own chain is to experiment - filing/grinding it to custom angles for _your_ saw, and _your_ cutting. 

Philbert


----------



## Khntr85 (May 25, 2016)

Philbert said:


> In all seriousness, *you* sharpen the chain. The grinder is just the tool. Good quality wheels help, and skill/experience is something that you develop.
> 
> Philbert



I got ya, like everything else, the more you do it the better you will get.....

Philbert, if you had to pick one of your grinders to keep, which one would it be???


----------



## Philbert (May 25, 2016)

I consider my Oregon 511A as a 'standard' for most users: it's my reference point. Basic, good quality, supported with parts, etc. The current version is model 520. 

Not necessarily the 'best'. And I would be happy with most of the Italian made (Oregon, Tecomec, etc.) grinders for my use. Higher volume sharpeners might prefer the self-clamping models. Some consider the STIHL and Silvey grinders to be better. 

Don't overlook the quality of the grinding wheels either. Some guys find that to be the biggest improvement to the 'clone' grinders. 

Philbert


----------



## Mandres (Jul 10, 2016)

xPosTech said:


> Trying to upload two pix of installed quick release clamp on my grinder. Couldn't do it with Tapatalk so tried to move them from my phone to my tablet with Airdroid. That also failed. Had to email them to myself. Jumping through hoops here.
> 
> View attachment 453651
> View attachment 453652
> ...



Thanks Ted, that's exactly the solution I've been looking for. I like the HF unit just fine except the clamp mechanism makes it functionally useless. I'll take some measurements and look for one of those clamp posts to fit. Do you happen to know the manufacturer of the one you used that was a perfect fit, or have an extra one I could buy off you?


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## 67L36Driver (Jul 22, 2016)

Fixed my chain stop floppy thing. It had been kissed by the grinding wheel too many times.






Filed it square on the end.





And then dimpled it to make it self centering.





Hardest part was setting up a snap ring pliers for the tiny TruArc ring.


----------



## 67L36Driver (Jul 29, 2016)

Harbor Freight flyer in today's mail has a coupon for the grinder for 28 bux.

By another tomorrow I will.[emoji4]


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## 67L36Driver (Aug 19, 2016)

Passed on it.

The bicycle clamp thing was the deal breaker.


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## 67L36Driver (Aug 19, 2016)

I'm somewhat disappointed in my 'Knick the Grinder'.

I'm unable to sharpen 9/16" X .080" guage with it.[emoji33]

It handles 1/4"-7/16" fine.[emoji106]


----------



## 67L36Driver (Aug 27, 2016)

The minor modification is the best thing I've done to 'Nick'.





Made him a lot more consistent tooth to tooth and side to side.
Rocked chain before.




After:




Could be a smoother surface but don't want to spend the moola on junk chains.


----------



## Efisher26 (Nov 21, 2016)

Anyone know if the elec chain sharpener disks at tractor supply fit the harbour freight setup?


-•------------------------------------------------------------


Just a home owner that likes the older better made machines

Craftsman 3.7
Echo 290evl
Husqvarna 36


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## Philbert (Nov 21, 2016)

Efisher26 said:


> Anyone know if the elec chain sharpener disks at tractor supply fit the harbour freight setup?


No way to know for sure (see posts on wheel ID variance). Some of these stores switch vendors.

Best thing to do is take your grinder to the store and ask if you can test fit. Or just open the package carefully and keep your receipt.

Philbert


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## 67L36Driver (Nov 21, 2016)

I had to shim the bore on an evilbay wheel bore.


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## psjwi (Jan 3, 2017)

I didn't read every post in this thread so maybe this has already been mentioned...but in regard to idea about using super glue to tighten up the pivot:

I just bought one of these and it had a lot of slop in the hinge. Not knowing that someone had already mentioned it, I thought that using thin super glue along with the accelerant made to immediately setup the glue might work to take up the slack. If it worked, it would be a quick (maybe not permanant) fix.

I pulled out the pin and cleaned it up with brake cleaner - put it back in - put a few drops of thin CA glue in both ends and sprayed the area with the "kicker" chemical to set the glue. I made sure to operate it up and down right away to (hopefully) make sure it didn't lock up tight. 

Well it tried to glue itself into a permanant position - but you have a lot of leverage and the glue doesn't have much to grab onto on the pin - so it was pretty easy to break free. But it was so tight that it would no longer spring back. I put a drop or two of oil on the pin in the center area of the pivot (apparently the glue had flowed into the center area as well but that is where it broke free - the two ends of the pin were glued tight) and let it set for a while and now it springs back and there is no slop at all. Of course the plastic still has a tiny bit of flex but (at least for the time being) that pivot pin slop is totally gone.

Try this at your own risk...no guarantee that this will turn out good for everyone


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## Philbert (May 3, 2018)

*BUMP*

(just because)

Philbert


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## Philbert (May 15, 2018)

*Had to happen . . .*

Cordless, 18V version. 




Philbert


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## Philbert (Jun 27, 2018)

Another one joins the club! Followed me home last night (_'Nick at Nite'_!) - shown before clean up (and Silvey sickers).

Now I also have a 'Nick the Grinder' grinder, just like @67L36Driver !





Appears to be identical to the old Harbor Freight '_Chicago Electric'_ grinders (which I like better) except made in Italy. Also very similar to a generic, eBay version I bought (post #134).

Philbert


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## 67L36Driver (Jun 27, 2018)

Put ‘Nick’ in a box and send him here.

I got a new HF grinder waiting in the wings. I’ll prolly just transfer over the chain vice. Not liking the bicycle brake handle. [emoji90]


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## Philbert (Jun 27, 2018)

67L36Driver said:


> Not liking the bicycle brake handle.


Me neither. Liked the 'idea', but not in use - posted lots of comments on that. 
I keep looking out for these versions on CL; new ones available for about $30-40 on eBay (no endorsement implied).


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## Wood Doctor (Jun 28, 2018)

It never ceases to amaze me how many guys look for options to file sharpening chains when in the field. There has to be a reason for this. Think of the number of files you can buy for $80. Gasp!

And, think of the number of chains you can grind sharpen in the shop and bring to the field, ready to switch after you hit the ground or an embedded nail.


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## Huskybill (Jun 28, 2018)

The only time I used my Oregon chain grinder was to repair saw chain teeth after hitting metal in the wood. I would replace the bad teeth and grind them all so there all the same size. Only on newer chains. The rest of the time I use files.


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## jakethesnake (Apr 26, 2019)

Good thread


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## rd35 (Apr 26, 2019)

Wood Doctor said:


> It never ceases to amaze me how many guys look for options to file sharpening chains when in the field. There has to be a reason for this. Think of the number of files you can buy for $80. Gasp!
> 
> And, think of the number of chains you can grind sharpen in the shop and bring to the field, ready to switch after you hit the ground or an embedded nail.



My theory on why so many folks prefer "field sharpening" is because I think most folks want the security of knowing if they dull a chain they can sharpen it right then and there. And, if they dull the chain again and again....they can still sharpen over and over as needed. As for me....I take three razor sharp chains (minimum) with me every time I go out to woods. Soon as one starts showing signs of getting dull I swap chains. So here's what I find interesting....I have had several hand filers tell me they avoid having their chains ground because they want them to last longer. So what's strange is that ever since I started grinding my chains....I find they actually last much much longer than before. I can re-sharpen a chain as many as 10 times (assuming I can avoid dirt, rocks, and fence wire) before the cutters get so short they begin to break off. And the very last sharpening on a chain (before it gets tossed in the scrap metal bin) lasts just as long and cuts just as fast as a new chain. Coolest part is that the bottoms of the side plates and cutters (where they slide along the bar rails) don't seem to wear away as much as you would expect. I believe this is likely due to the fact that by keeping the chain sharp those surfaces don't see as much load or stress. If I have to push down on the saw to get it to cut...I stop and put another chain on the saw. Oh, and I have not needed to dress a guide bar on any of my saws for years. They don't get rolled edges any more. Absolutely amazes me how much less maintenance is required on bars and chains if the chains are kept sharp. 
Now don't get me wrong....if you like filing your chains by hand then that's great! It's sort of an art form and there are some real artists out there who can do a wicked good job making a chain razor sharp by hand. As for me, well I'm just not that steady anymore. I need lots of mechanical assistance to keep things consistent as well as square, level, and plumb!!!


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## MustangMike (Apr 26, 2019)

I like to do my own filing (square), by hand, unless the chain is badly rocked, but I'm usually working an a place I can drive close to, so I bring extra saws and swap if one gets dull or rocked.

If I were going deep into the woods with one saw I would definitely bring extra chains.

Agree with all the comments about keeping the chain sharp, and will add using good chain oil is also important, and these things also will help your powerhead last a lot longer (as it will run cooler).


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## rd35 (Apr 26, 2019)

MustangMike said:


> using good chain oil is also important, and these things also will help your powerhead last a lot longer (as it will run cooler).



Yep! Absolutely! Good chain lube is a "must have"!!

I had been cutting firewood for myself and my parents for several year before I finally got serious about learning the theory behind how a saw chain works. Cutting firewood was always a chore that I had begun to dislike because my saw was unreliable, chain would never cut correctly, and it took forever to get the 45 ricks cut for both of our outdoor furnaces. One day I told my wife, "I've had it up to here! (holding my hands flat up near my chin)....I'm going to do some research and find out how to sharpen a chain proper....and then I'm getting myself a chain grinder!!!!!" Two weeks later, my NT grinder arrived. I had read all the info I could find on this forum along with some articles written by the folks at Carlton chain! I set up that grinder and started sharpening the chain off my recently acquired MS260. When I finished sharpening that chain (must have taken me 45 minutes...newbie) I put it on the saw. It was razor sharp, all the angles correct, rakers at .025. Took the saw over to my Dad's woodpile. Dad came out to see what would happen! Fired it up, warmed the engine for a minute or two, and tore into a 16" readoak log. That saw ripped through that solid red oak like it was soft pine. Big pretty chips pouring out the bottom of the clutch cover. Dad's mouth dropped wide open as, half way through the cut, I removed my left hand from the handlebar and let the saw continue cutting at an amazing rate under its own weight.
It was at that very moment I realized cutting firewood would never be the same again. It was at that very moment I contracted an incurable case of CADD. My new hobby had become chain sharpening, saw tuning, and firewood cutting!!!!! Also went out and bought a nice hydraulic log splitter. My wife even enjoys helping me work firewood...probably because of my improved attitude!!! (But she's still not convinced I need 20 chainsaws in the shop)


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## 67L36Driver (Apr 26, 2019)

rd35 said:


> Yep! Absolutely! Good chain lube is a "must have"!!
> 
> I had been cutting firewood for myself and my parents for several year before I finally got serious about learning the theory behind how a saw chain works. Cutting firewood was always a chore that I had begun to dislike because my saw was unreliable, chain would never cut correctly, and it took forever to get the 45 ricks cut for both of our outdoor furnaces. One day I told my wife, "I've had it up to here! (holding my hands flat up near my chin)....I'm going to do some research and find out how to sharpen a chain proper....and then I'm getting myself a chain grinder!!!!!" Two weeks later, my NT grinder arrived. I had read all the info I could find on this forum along with some articles written by the folks at Carlton chain! I set up that grinder and started sharpening the chain off my recently acquired MS260. When I finished sharpening that chain (must have taken me 45 minutes...newbie) I put it on the saw. It was razor sharp, all the angles correct, rakers at .025. Took the saw over to my Dad's woodpile. Dad came out to see what would happen! Fired it up, warmed the engine for a minute or two, and tore into a 16" readoak log. That saw ripped through that solid red oak like it was soft pine. Big pretty chips pouring out the bottom of the clutch cover. Dad's mouth dropped wide open as, half way through the cut, I removed my left hand from the handlebar and let the saw continue cutting at an amazing rate under its own weight.
> It was at that very moment I realized cutting firewood would never be the same again. It was at that very moment I contracted an incurable case of CADD. My new hobby had become chain sharpening, saw tuning, and firewood cutting!!!!! Also went out and bought a nice hydraulic log splitter. My wife even enjoys helping me work firewood...probably because of my improved attitude!!! (But she's still not convinced I need 20 chainsaws in the shop)



Tell her you need eighty and compromise at thirty. [emoji48]

Added #3 to the pile. Another freebie.





I got it from Jeff’s Small Engines. When one sells so many Forrester bars, one gets a free sharpener.
[emoji6]


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## Philbert (Apr 27, 2019)

67L36Driver said:


> Added #3 to the pile. . . . When one sells so many Forrester bars, one gets a free sharpener.


That Forrester is supposed to be s copy or equivalent of the Oregon 310 grinder (?). 

The one I tried worked much better with a coarser, replacement Oregon wheel (made in Italy), than the fine grit, OEM wheel.

Philbert


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## jerrycmorrow (May 3, 2019)

rd35 said:


> My theory on why so many folks prefer "field sharpening" is because I think most folks want the security of knowing if they dull a chain they can sharpen it right then and there. And, if they dull the chain again and again....they can still sharpen over and over as needed. As for me....I take three razor sharp chains (minimum) with me every time I go out to woods. Soon as one starts showing signs of getting dull I swap chains. So here's what I find interesting....I have had several hand filers tell me they avoid having their chains ground because they want them to last longer. So what's strange is that ever since I started grinding my chains....I find they actually last much much longer than before. I can re-sharpen a chain as many as 10 times (assuming I can avoid dirt, rocks, and fence wire) before the cutters get so short they begin to break off. And the very last sharpening on a chain (before it gets tossed in the scrap metal bin) lasts just as long and cuts just as fast as a new chain. Coolest part is that the bottoms of the side plates and cutters (where they slide along the bar rails) don't seem to wear away as much as you would expect. I believe this is likely due to the fact that by keeping the chain sharp those surfaces don't see as much load or stress. If I have to push down on the saw to get it to cut...I stop and put another chain on the saw. Oh, and I have not needed to dress a guide bar on any of my saws for years. They don't get rolled edges any more. Absolutely amazes me how much less maintenance is required on bars and chains if the chains are kept sharp.
> Now don't get me wrong....if you like filing your chains by hand then that's great! It's sort of an art form and there are some real artists out there who can do a wicked good job making a chain razor sharp by hand. As for me, well I'm just not that steady anymore. I need lots of mechanical assistance to keep things consistent as well as square, level, and plumb!!!


Just read your signature. Love it. Rather than spill the meaning I’ll let others do their own research


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## rd35 (May 6, 2019)

Yep! There's only a small portion of the population that can interpret that quasi-latin term! Keep your stick on the ice!!!!


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## Philbert (Jun 13, 2019)

67L36Driver said:


> Added #3 to the pile. . . . When one sells so many Forrester bars, one gets a free sharpener.


Had a chance to try this one yet? I am curious how close it is to the Oregon model:
https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/oregon-310-mini-grinder.283691/#post-5474287

Philbert


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## 67L36Driver (Jun 14, 2019)

Not done any more than look in the box. 

My ‘Nick the Grinder’ just keeps going like the Energizer Bunny.

Getting dog eared tho.






Overdue for a trip to the laundry tub. [emoji13]


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## Philbert (Aug 6, 2019)

Ran across a related thread:

https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/improving-the-harbor-freight-chain-grinder.298677/

Philbert


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## Philbert (Aug 11, 2019)

A better reference for the 'Northern Tool' clone grinder than the one posted on the first page:
https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/fyi-northern-chainsaw-sharpener.39995/

Philbert


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## harry398 (Aug 31, 2020)

I have a HF newer style grinder.
I cant really ***** about it, I shimmed the clamp for the chain (where you sharpen the chain) with a sliver of mud flap.....It doesnt move the chain anymore...rock solid.

My question is....... these wheels any good? http://sharpchain.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=47

I Have the original one in it....it cuts ok.....really not that bad....but Im wondering if its worth putting a different wheel on it....


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## Philbert (Aug 31, 2020)

TOTAL was a brand name for Tilton Equipment, who had products made to their specs, but has been out of business for several years now. I had good experience with their wheels, so those could be a good deal if still available.

Note that some of these grinders have a 7/8" arbor / wheel ID, and some have 22mm: they are close, but not the same. To confuse things, some say that they are 7/8" and are really 22mm, so sometimes you have to test fit to see if they actually fit your grinder. Let us know if you try them?

Philbert


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## 67L36Driver (Aug 31, 2020)

I had to cut a strip of sheet copper to curl into a shim to make a loose 7/8” bore fit mine.

[emoji2959]


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## Philbert (Aug 31, 2020)

I tried a thin strip of aluminum duct sealing tape to build up one arbor. But it does not help if the ID is too small. 

Best to find which fit. 

Philbert


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## harry398 (Aug 31, 2020)

Philbert said:


> DUH!
> 
> I was so focused on the '_cheap_' part of this grinder that I did not realize that 'real' grinding wheels should fit too!
> 
> ...




Did you run this?

20 clams on feebay..........about the same as other shipped.


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## Philbert (Aug 31, 2020)

harry398 said:


> Did you run this?


Not certain which set up you are referring to. I ran the better (Italian wheel) on the Oregon 310-120 'mini' grinder, as a replacement for the cheap (Chinese) wheel that was sent with the wrong ID. That was the root of my 'epiphany' on grinding wheel quality. Ironic that some $27 grinders need a $26 wheel to work correctly!

Post #188






HF Chain Grinder Thread


OK, men, I have now got the $120 Laser, an Oregon 511 clone, working better. If you decide to buy one of these, be prepared to bench mount it. similar to the Speed Sharp or 511a. I made a T-shaped hardwood bracket that allows me to use my bench vise to hold the chain 45" above the floor. The...




www.arboristsite.com





I did not try it on on the HF models. On one hand, I can only imagine that they would improve performance over the very fine, OEM wheels provided. But the small motors on the cheaper grinders still might not have the power to drive them appropriately.

Philbert


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## harry398 (Sep 6, 2020)

I bought *Oregon OR4125-316A Grinding Wheel 3/16 Inch

I just used saw yesterday, sharpened with original HF wheel....and did rakers....man it cuts Very Well.

I dont understand why the HF grinder has so much hate. 

It gives a flat cut surface, I dont know if thats considered a square cut, but it cuts great. Yea, the original wheel doesnt give the smoothest finish. I will try the oregon wheel.

I also dont see why a bigger motor is needed. Its just kissing the teeth, unless your chain is really mangled.....but even so, mine doesnt have a issue. I dont try to lug it down though.

The smaller saw I used, echo cs370 16" uses a rounded tooth oregon chain.
My echo cs590 uses a 20" square tooth chain. That sucker really cuts......and yes the chains arent perfect when new.

I am still learning about chains. As simple as it appears, its pretty technical if you want to cut better and easier.*


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## Philbert (Sep 6, 2020)

“


harry398 said:


> I dont understand why the HF grinder has so much hate.



Because it is poorly made, has limited angle accommodation, a cheap grinding wheel, and little power. It’s main attraction is it’s cheap price. 

If you are just touching up cutters with standard, default angles, it can work, once you get all of the wobbling and shimming out of it. As noted in the thread, there are other ‘basic’ ‘mini-grinders’ that I feel performed better for this use. I will be interested to hear how your HF works with the Oregon wheel.

Other folks use grinders for additional tasks: reshaping cutters to different angles; grinding back damaged cutters, sharpening large volumes of chains; etc. For these applications the HF grinder does not compare. So, some of it depends on your expectations and intended uses.

Philbert


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## Philbert (Sep 6, 2020)

harry398 said:


> It gives a flat cut surface, I dont know if thats considered a square cut, but it cuts great.


It is not a “square cut“. That requires a totally different grinder. You want to use the profiled, rounded edge of the wheel, not the side, to get a profile similar to that of using a file.



harry398 said:


> I also dont see why a bigger motor is needed. Its just kissing the teeth


Depends on the wheel that you are using, and how much metal you are trying to remove. some of this depends on the size / pitch of the chain that you are sharpening.

Philbert


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## harry398 (Sep 6, 2020)

Philbert

You can also bring grider down and pull wheel to tooth...yes?

That a square cut?


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## harry398 (Sep 6, 2020)

Ill get that wheel soon...ill post my opinion

Thank you


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## Philbert (Sep 6, 2020)

harry398 said:


> It gives a flat cut surface, I dont know if thats considered a square cut, but it cuts great.





harry398 said:


> You can also bring grider down and pull wheel to tooth...yes?
> That a square cut?


"Square' filing / grinding is a separate discussion, beyond this thread. There are several threads here on A.S. that go into it (Google '_arboristsite square filed chain_' to find some). It requires special files, or special grinders ($1,000 !!!), and takes a bit more skill to master than conventional, round filing.

Here is some basic information on it, which may help you understand the difference:





Understanding Cutter Teeth On Pro Saw Chain


This information helps pro saw users understand the different types of cutter teeth on pro saw chain.



www.madsens1.com









Square Chisel Chain Q & A


This information helps pro saw users understand ow to sharpen and maintain chisel saw chain.



www.madsens1.com









How To File Square Chisel Chain


This information helps pro saw users learn to use a file to sharpen square chisel saw chain.



www.madsens1.com





Philbert


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## MustangMike (Sep 6, 2020)

Madsens is a great source for information, but I'll add my own comments since I use square (exclusively) on the East coast in hardwoods.

1) IMO, square file chain will hold up as well as full chisel round file if you keep the angles modest (45, 45 +45). On the West coast they often go with steeper angles.

2) Once you get the hang of it, it is not hard to hand sharpen. I leave my chains on the saw, and can sharpen with square file just as fast as with round file. When you get used to it, you will feel the file "fall into place". Keeping the corner of the file in the corner of the tooth, stroking straight, and maintaining proper angles are all important. It takes some time to adapt.

3) What I like about square file is it is good for everything: cross cutting, noodling or milling square file does it all well.

This is my favorite reference for understanding square file (the file is really 6 sided):

http://www.madsens1.com/bnc_cb_angles.htm


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## Philbert (Sep 6, 2020)

MustangMike said:


> I'll add my own comments since I use square (exclusively) on the East coast in hardwoods.


No challenge Mike, but the focus of this thread is the Harbor Freight style, $30 grinders, and a guy stating that he is just learning about chains. Can he ‘square grind’ on a HF grinder?

Philbert


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## harry398 (Sep 7, 2020)

Philbert said:


> "Square' filing / grinding is a separate discussion, beyond this thread. There are several threads here on A.S. that go into it (Google '_arboristsite square filed chain_' to find some). It requires special files, or special grinders ($1,000 !!!), and takes a bit more skill to master than conventional, round filing.
> 
> Here is some basic information on it, which may help you understand the difference:
> 
> ...


3 links from Madsens...WOW. Fascinating.

Thank You For Sharing.


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## 67L36Driver (Sep 12, 2020)

Retired my ‘Nick the Grinder’ after nine years of service. He was a freebie to begin with and developed random endplay in the motor bearings.

I did salvage his chain vice. [emoji6]

We moved on to a Forester branded grinder of the same ilk. Also a freebie. Same but a touch different.

I’m all set as I also have a Chicago Electric (another freebie) as backup. It’s the bicycle brake/clamp model hence the salvage of Nick’s chain vice. [emoji106]

One thing is certainly true, they are not for salvaging mangled cutters. But with patients are serviceable.


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## Philbert (Sep 12, 2020)

67L36Driver said:


> Retired my ‘Nick the Grinder’ after nine years of service. He was a freebie to begin with and developed random endplay in the motor bearings.


Sorry for your loss. I know that Nick was a loyal companion and friend to you.

Good call on swapping out the vice, I mean, letting Nick's memory live on in another grinder.

Philbert


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## mountainlake (Sep 13, 2020)

IMO when you bring the grinding wheel low enough so the tooth is ground by the side of the wheel you get the same angle on the top part of the tooth as square grinding. I've been grinding like that ever since I go my 511a grinder 50 years ago and my chains cut great. A grinder and a file are not the same and no reason to try and imitate a file when grinding. I use a 1/8 cbn for all chains and they all cut great. Steve


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## Philbert (Sep 13, 2020)

mountainlake said:


> A grinder and a file are not the same . . .


Of course they are not, but that is irrelevant.

It is not a question of which tool you use, it is the matter of what you want your finished tooth / cutter to look like. I have posted the image below many times. If you like the cutting edges that you get by grinding with the side of the wheel, then there are files that match that profile. But if you prefer the performance of a round filed cutter, use the profiled edge of a correctly sized wheel to attain that.






mountainlake said:


> IMO when you bring the grinding wheel low enough so the tooth is ground by the side of the wheel you get the same angle on the top part of the tooth as square grinding.


Square grinding involves many different angles, beyond a flat top plate bevel. Square ground chains are typically done at a much shallower top plate angle than the standard 30° used for round filing, and often at steeper top plate bevels (please reference the Masden's links, above, or one of the many square grinding / filing threads here on A.S.). It also only works on full chisel chains. 

But more importantly, when you bury the standard grinding wheel that deep into the gullet, you change the side plate bevel shape and angle significantly, and that is the part that does the heavy work when crosscutting.

My standard line about sharpening is, '_Everybody has to find something that works for them_.' So, if that is working for you, and you are happy with it, then stick with it.

Philbert


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## mountainlake (Sep 14, 2020)

Philbert said:


> Of course they are not, but that is irrelevant.
> 
> It is not a question of which tool you use, it is the matter of what you want your finished tooth / cutter to look like. I have posted the image below many times. If you like the cutting edges that you get by grinding with the side of the wheel, then there are files that match that profile. But if you prefer the performance of a round filed cutter, use the profiled edge of a correctly sized wheel to attain that.
> 
> ...


 


The grinding wheel goes no where near as low as your exaggerated pic above and a file would still work fine after I grind, it might not hit the whole gullet but it hit the top of the tooth where it needs too. The BIGGEST mistake people make with grinders is not getting the wheel low enough resulting in no hook angle on the side plate, I've seen chains come in here ground like that and don't cut. Steve


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## RedSleds (Sep 16, 2020)

New here, first post.
Plowed through this entire thread, and was surprised at the lack of mods to this HF unit.

Most interested in finding a mod for wiring motor for switchable forward/reverse direction of grinding wheel. Also, if anyone has replaced the hinge spring with one that requires less force at the bottom of stroke, so you don't need to ham-fist it and induce side to side flex. Re-bushing the hinge with tighter tolerance hardware would be a plus too.

I am considering filling the honeycomb of the base with epoxy resin. (to perhaps mitigate any flex from that area?)

My plan for this unit is mostly to use for achieving equal tooth length after replacing severely damaged links from foreign object strikes, and also after several in-the-field sharpenings with a Pferd CS-X(Stihl) 2-in-1 file guide.
After running the chain through the HF, I would then "fine tune" it with the Pherd.

Any thoughts, or pointing in the right direction, would be appreciated.


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## Philbert (Sep 16, 2020)

RedSleds said:


> . . . Most interested in finding a mod for wiring motor for switchable forward/reverse direction of grinding wheel. Also, if anyone has replaced the hinge spring with one that requires less force at the bottom of stroke, so you don't need to ham-fist it and induce side to side flex. Re-bushing the hinge with tighter tolerance hardware would be a plus too. . . I am considering filling the honeycomb of the base with epoxy resin. (to perhaps mitigate any flex from that area?).


Welcome to A.S., and to the rabbit hole of cheap grinders!

At $30, or so, it is a low financial risk to try and mod these grinders, so please let us know what you try and what works. 

As shown in the photos, I have each of my HF-type grinders mounted to a wood base, for portability, and never really noticed an issue with flex from the base. Some of the better mini-grinders, such as the Oregon 310-120, have cast metal bases, which essentially have zero flex; the additional cost of that grinder might be offset by what you spend on epoxy!

Simple bushings can be good for reducing slop. My approach has been more from a technique approach: I use the grinder to help guide me, but do not force it. Sometimes, I use a little side pressure (or 'body English') to control the amount of material removed on a specific tooth. In other words, I am visually and tactilely controlling the grinding progress, and not relying solely on the machine. If you come up with some simple bushings, I am sure that folks would be interested.

As for re-wiring the motor, I have to stand back. First, due to the safety issues, and second, due to my minimal knowledge of motors. There are some diagrams in the larger grinder threads, but I do not know if they apply to this type of motor. If you are planning on 'finishing' the cutters with the Pferd 2-in-1, why even bother with reversing the motor? Any burr produced will vanish with the first or second file stroke. Your key challenge will be to match the profile of the Pferd file with the grinder, as closely as you can: '_Grind as you file and file as you grind!',_ so that the file is just finishing the cutter with a minimum amount of re-shaping.

Philbert


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## Philbert (Oct 19, 2020)

*Better Quality Forester Grinding Wheels for HF Type Grinders*

I've mentioned the importance of the wheels when grinding chains, and how good wheels can really be an improvement over some of the fine grit, red/brown wheels supplied with many of these low cost grinders. So I was happy to find these Forester brand wheels for the mini-grinders at that store where _'You Save BIG Money'_, especially with the price: $10 for a 'bonus pack', including an 1/8" and a 3/16" grinding wheel. This is lower than what these wheels list for individually on eBay.




As noted, the fit can be tricky: some grinding wheels have an ID of 7/8", and some 22mm. Even though they are close (and sometimes mislabeled) they have to match the arbor on your grinder. Too small and they will not fit. Too large and they wobble (or worse!).

I tried them on a few of the '_HF type_' grinders that I have. They fit the older style, _'Chicago Electric_' (Harbor Freight brand, without the bicycle brake lever chain vise), and the similar looking _'Nick the Grinder'_. But they did not fit an identical looking '_Infinity_' grinder (seriously, you could not tell these grinders apart, except for the colors). Forester says they will fit their grinder, and the Oregon models, but I do not have these to try. So keep your receipt and test fit them on yours.

As with the better quality Oregon wheel (Post #188), this made grinding fun! These smaller, lower powered, fixed angle grinders have their limits: they are good for restoring edges on cutters, but limited for fixed damaged teeth, custom angles, or doing depth gauges. But they are small, quiet, and inexpensive.

I went looking for more loops to sharpen. I did several 20" loops of STIHL .325 pitch chain and was pretty happy with the results.




Some of these grinders were only sold with the 1/8" wheels, which is too narrow for larger pitch chain. The _'Nick the Grinder_' grinder took the 3/16" wheel with no problem. My _'Chicago Electric_' grinder had enough threads on the arbor to hold the wheel, but will need a little trimming on the cover guard for additional clearance.




Nice to have decent quality, inexpensive grinding wheels to use with inexpensive grinders. So far, I have only seen this packaging at Menard's. Hopefully, it will become more available.

Philbert


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## Philbert (Nov 7, 2020)

Philbert said:


> Nice to have decent quality, inexpensive grinding wheels to use with inexpensive grinders. So far, I have only seen this packaging at Menard's. Hopefully, it will become more available.


Of interest (to me at least) is that the grinding wheels supplied with the old style, Chicago Electric (Harbor Freight) grinders (before the hand brake, cable, vice thing) were coarser grit, and made by MoleMab in Italy! Worked much better, IMO, than the fine grit ones now supplied.

Phiblert


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## Philbert (Nov 7, 2020)

*Just call me 'Angle' of the morning . . . .*

I have been evaluating a few more of these less expensive, mini-grinders (will post some separate threads on each), and noticed something interesting. Although, the grinder head tilt angle is fixed on most of these, they are not all fixed at the same angle (!). At first I thought it might be an illusion, or a perspective thing. And no one cares about a variation of a degree or two on this type of tool. But a couple of them looked significantly different. So I took them down into_ Philbert's Secret Underground Research Laboratory_ ('PSURL') and applied _SCIENCE_ (or engineering, or math, or something) on them.

Hard to measure with a standard protractor, so I clamped the heads down, inserted a small piece of card stock in each vise, traced the line, and measured it off the paper (highlighted in these photos for emphasis - those lines did not actually appear).



Here's what I got -presented a couple of ways, in case one makes more sense:







Small differences may be due to my measuring error. But the 10° difference between the Grizzly and Forester (identical to Oregon 310-120?) is H-U-G-E!

60° has long been the 'standard' / 'default' angle for cutting a variety of different types of wood, and what STIHL usually recommends. Oregon has been recommending 55° for most of their chains for several years now. It is a separate discussion to decide which is 'best', which cuts faster, which lasts longer, etc. Of course, on 'standard' grinders, this angle is adjustable. But if these details are important to you, and you are thinking about one of these fixed head angle grinders, this might be interesting information.

Philbert


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## mountainlake (Nov 8, 2020)

Heres a nice vid on sharpening, at the 1:33 time notice hoe he gets the wheel low enough so theres a nice hook angle on the side of the cutter the way it should be. I was sawing logs for a customer who had his chain sharpened at a shop, it had decent hook on one side and none on the other side from not getting the wheel low enough and cut like $%$#. Steve


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## Philbert (Nov 8, 2020)

mountainlake said:


> . . . a customer who had his chain sharpened at a shop, it had decent hook on one side and none on the other side from not getting the wheel low enough . .


Sometimes the difference between R and L cutters is that the grinding wheel is not centered over the vise.

Since the grinder head pivots onto the cutters, one side could be ground by part of the wheel to one side or the other of the center line. And this changes as the diameter of the wheel changes with wear. Usually a small difference, but can be an issue in some cases.

Hard to get a good illustration right now, but this is from the Oregon 520--120 manual: one of the few grinders that lets you adjust for this as the wheel wears (some grinders allow small adjustments in the vise). The mini-grinders in this thread do not offer this type of adjustment.



The vise on the Oregon 520 adjusts forward and backwards to compensate for this. I just 'run' the L side cutters:then run a sample R cutter; stop; compare; adjust if necessary; then run the rest of the R side.

Philbert


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## mountainlake (Nov 8, 2020)

Yes the shop that sharpened that chain needed to adjust the height of the wheel when switching sides but didn't. Steve


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## Philbert (Nov 12, 2020)

Philbert said:


> I've mentioned the importance of the wheels when grinding chains, and how good wheels can really be an improvement over some of the fine grit, red/brown wheels supplied with many of these low cost grinders.
> . . . As with the better quality Oregon wheel (Post #188), this made grinding fun!


Another odd thing about the 100 grit, red/brown, fine grit wheels that come with most of these mini-grinder: they don't pass the _'ring test_'!!!



The Owner's / User's Manuals that come with these tools all stress the importance of inspecting the wheels before use, but none of the fine grit, red/brown wheels I have give more than a '_thud_' sound, even though they run fine. Must be too dense?

Philbert


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## Philbert (Nov 12, 2020)

*Northern Tool / Northern Hydraulic Grinder Reference*

In the second post in this thread I included a link to _one_ of the NT / NH grinder threads. It was one of the first, popular clone grinders, which copied the Oregon / Tecomec style at a fraction of the price (and quality). Since then, I have occasionally had trouble finding the 'BIG' thread on those grinders (even though I posted in it), so I am adding it here for reference. Interesting to note that Northern Tool has cycled through several different versions of these 'clone' grinders since we first started seeing them 14 years ago! Some of the same issues, and tips may still apply to the current offerings.






FYI - Northern Chainsaw Sharpener


On super sale. Look Here! Looks like it might be the Tecomec 136/Oregon 511A unit, in which case $100 is a freakin' steal.




www.arboristsite.com





Also:
https://www.arboristsite.com/community/attachments/tuning_chinese_chainsaw_sharpener-pdf.566900/

Philbert


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## Pupa57 (Dec 9, 2020)

7sleeper said:


> I have a two variants of this type of machine. First the full plastic model and second the lower aluminum top plastic version. Since I cut in three different locations in Austria, each a few hours drive apart, I................
> 
> 7








HF Chain Grinder Thread


Side-to-side variation can be an issue with both cutters and depth gauges on most grinders. I never assume, even with my Oregon grinders. Due to the smaller diameter of the grinding wheels on these grinders, I assume that even the small, horizontal spacing between R and L cutters and depth...




www.arboristsite.com





Although the above was posted long time ago, I yet found it quite adequate even today. Very good and direct post giving me the confidence boost I needed. I just acquired a bargain "HF" equivalent cheapo sharpener from someone who advertised on an auction type site. He apparently used it once and then rather preferred sharpening with a Dremel tool and grinding stone. My luck, as I needed something to sharpen a chain urgently.
I bought a generic China Chainsaw version model CS-4500 during Black Friday special, felled two smal trees with 200mm trunks, green softwood, and to my surprise the supplied Chinese chain, with name Alston on links, on closer inspection was badly blunted. It could not cut properly anymore. I was shocked. I could not find a replacement 18"/72 DL/325/0.058 chain locally. I then attempted sharpening the chain myself using the supplied abortion of a “file” but the bad quality cheap China file was the wrong size, it was too small and was blunt in itself by the third cutter sharpening attempt. Please note that this was my first attempt, in desperation, to sharpen a chain. I did a lot of research and watched many sharpening videos since the issue presented itself.
In the past I just had a replacement chain installed on my cheapo Chinese electrical chainsaw when the original chain was blunt, thus in total I used two chains over the span of many years before the chainsaw broke a gear.
I have quite a few trees to remove so bought Ryobi 4mm files to further attempt the sharpening, the files were better quality, much longer and the right size, etc. I tried sharpening some cutters but was not confident at all. So when I saw the advert of the available electric sharpener on the cheap, it was like I had destiny with this device. I immediately grabbed the offer and bought the device and was ever so excited at first, then I read the reviews and was disheartened some. I was very concerned indeed. I decided to first play with this sharpener device to verify all the flaws and problems I saw and read about on so many sites and only then will I attempt to do the required or recommended mods I can manage as per the videos. In the meantime it started to rain for a few days giving me more time to play eith the unit and do further research to procure a locally available chain for this saw.
I was happy when, with another stroke of luck, I found a reference about a Chainsaw supplier with a quality Oregon chain, with the correct specifications as required, repackaged under their own Chainsaw brand. I ordered online and once received gave it a test run when weather allowed. What a difference a quality brand chain makes.

Back to the chainsaw sharpener.
I have done some mods based on my newfound knowledge and also based on some of my own observations. I am considering more ideas on improving the subpar brake clamp design.

Some mods I’ve done so far:

Did not find much of a problem with the loose and unstable pitch distance control flapper but added some large washers anyway (scrounged from my scrap bin) to improve stability some more.



I found the bar/clamp unit not very straight, with a varying gauge gap right through, and thus stripped the unit to measure the sprocket thickness determining the gauge gap. I measured them as 1.54mm. I found some nylon spacers from my tinkering box with close to the exact measurements and installed one spacer between the rail plates at every screw possible holding the unit together to maintain the gauge gap at +-1.5mm throughout. Thus the chain movement using the knobs forward and backward are smoother and the chain fits snuggly and stable in the "bar".

As for the clamping plate pulling in at an angle at the bottom when using the brake, which tend to randomly lift and offsetting the cutter position during the clamping action, I placed three of the nylon +-1.54mm spacers on the bottom screw below the clamping plate. I also added additional and stronger springs on the two top screws above and towards the sides of the clamping plate. This increased the steadiness and repeatability of the clamping greatly.

Unfortunately I found the clamping, in the sharpening position, are mostly just clamping on one drive link leaving the cutter in a position that allows it to swivel upwards when touched by the grinding stone. Especially on the reversed angle when sharpening the 2nd set of cutters. To explain better; when I move the chain out of position to clamp the full width of one cutter, that means across two drive links then I cannot easily move the cutter upwards to swing. When moving the chain to the grinding position and the chain reversed tightly against the pitch stopper plate, then only one drive link are clamped and the cutter can then easily be swivelled upwards, again it’s more prominent during the 2nd set reversed angle sharpening stage. My solution is to modify the clamp block to be wider to clamp over at least 2 maybe 3 drive links at the same time.

After these changes were made, I felt much more confident and yesterday sharpened the cheap China chain "successfully?” At least back to a state to operate again.

I swopped the chains and made the China chain attack some wood. Mostly small trees and branches. I was happy with the improvement so I can only give this sharpener a thumbs up. I am feeling confident that it can only go better from here on.

Other changes I am considering;

Dump the brake and use a electrical solenoid to clamp the chain, using a wider clamp over three drive links as discussed above. The clamping action can be automated to clamp when the grinding stone head leaves the home position. A foot switch can also be considered?

I am still considering the need to reverse the motor during the 2nd reverse angle sharpening exercise?
Improve the stability of the grinding head unit using bronze bushes on the 10mm swing pin?

Improve the stability and thus reduce the flexing of the head uni,t which are causing movement of the grind position, by using an epoxy (or Plaster of Paris?) to fill the open spaces that can be seen down under when the sharpener are viewed from the bottom?

That’s it for now.

Thanks for a nice thread instilling the confidence to use this affordable sharpening unit effectively.
More photos and videos to follow as work progress, sooner than later.
Any advice or comments will be welcomed.


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## Philbert (Dec 9, 2020)

Welcome to A.S.!

Thanks for the positive feedback.

The bottom line is how the cutters look when you are finished. How you get there is up to you!

Philbert


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## Pupa57 (Dec 9, 2020)

Philbert said:


> Welcome to A.S.!
> 
> Thanks for the positive feedback.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the welcome.
Found the edit. 

Its difficult to know when the cutters are acceptable due to lack of experience and information. Will take some snap's and present here for advice if possible.


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## Philbert (Dec 9, 2020)

Pupa57 said:


> Is it possible to edit my thread to add info or do corrections?


On this site, you can edit your own posts up to 24 hours. Click 'EDIT' at the bottom of your post.

Please also share any photos of your modifications, as well as failures, successes, etc. for others to learn from.

Philbert


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## Wood Doctor (Dec 26, 2020)

harry398 said:


> I bought *Oregon OR4125-316A Grinding Wheel 3/16 Inch. I just used saw yesterday, sharpened with original HF wheel....and did rakers. Man it cuts very Well. I don't understand why the HF grinder has so much hate.
> 
> It gives a flat cut surface, I don't know if that's considered a square cut, but it cuts great. Yes, the original wheel doesn't give the smoothest finish. I will try the Oregon wheel.
> 
> I also don't see why a bigger motor is needed. Its just kissing the teeth, unless your chain is really mangled.....but even so, mine doesn't have a issue. I don't try to lug it down though....*


You were able to mount a 3/16" thick wheel on this grinder? Mine would not accept it. Only 1/8" thick wheels would fit, and anything thicker would rub the outside guard and make the thing sound like a contraption. I recently got around this barrier by using #8 or #6 flat washer shims, underneath the little mounting crews between the guard and the housing to give it more room. That worked. I also did a few more things as I show in the last two pics:


The swivel stop that sets and holds the cutter fell apart on mine. I replaced that as shown with a short length of angle iron and a nut and bushing, all bolted in place and held with a lock nut. So far so good. It's back into service.


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## Philbert (Feb 10, 2021)

*Summary (sort of) . . .*

6 years and 16 pages (!), based on a taunting dare from a fellow member. At one point, I had 11 of these puppies in my basement, trying out different variations. I still refer people to this thread when they ask about HF grinders. So, here is sort of an interim summary. '_Interim_', because I may get drawn down that rabbit hole again.

- These grinders are attractive due to their low price. But they also take up little space in use; are compact and portable to transport and store; and pretty quiet, compared to 'conventional' grinders. In a sense, they are 'cute'!

- They have limited power and limited adjustability.

- If you are satisfied with the 'standard', fixed angles, are mostly 'touching up' worn edges, and understand what a finished cutter looks like, you can absolutely improve chains with these tools. If you are planning on custom angles, fixing badly damaged chains, or setting up a sharpening service, keep looking.

- Many of these are of 'modest' quality (some are junk). Repair or replacement parts may not be available. Some of them are of decent quality, but those tend to cost more. Although, price and quality are not always linked, '_you get what you pay for_', should be in the back of your mind.

- *The grinding wheels are critical*. Better wheels grind better. Some of the 'better' wheels cost more than some of the cheap grinders (!). Many of these grinders only accept 1/8" thick wheels, which means that you will need to reposition larger pitch chains (multiple passes) to get a '_proper_' grind.

As with any grinder (or sharpening method), it takes some knowledge, some experience, and some skill to become competent and efficient. These could even be considered a low cost, fun thing to try, for less than the price of a couple of pizzas, movie tickets, etc., if you understand the limitations.* I absolutely prefer my 5-3/4" Oregon / Tecomec grinders over these* for regular use, but understand that the $200 - $300 price of these is more than some guys can justify. For some guys, filing chains is a better option.

Most of my 'HF-style' grinders have now been sold off on CraigsList or garage sales: I just was not going to use them. I did keep a pair of the Forester 04844 / Oregon 310-120 style grinders, with better quality wheels installed, for fun, light-duty use. 





Forester 04844 Chain Grinder


General Several years back I was challenged to evaluate some of the less expensive 'mini-grinders' for sharpening saw chain. These grinders typically have 4-1/8 or 4-1/4-inch diameter wheels; fixed head tilt angles; and fairly small (70 to 85 Watt) motors. While limited in angle adjustment and...




www.arboristsite.com





All that rationale stuff aside, my head still turns instinctively when I see one in a store, on-line, CraigsList, garage sale, etc. I have to remind myself that I am _not_ running a museum, adoption shelter for grinders, etc.

Philbert


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## Wood Doctor (Feb 10, 2021)

Philbert said:


> *Summary (sort of) . . .*
> 
> 6 years and 16 pages (!), based on a taunting dare from a fellow member. At one point, I had 11 of these puppies in my basement, trying out different variations. I still refer people to this thread when they ask about HF grinders. So, here is sort of an interim summary. '_Interim_', because I may get drawn down that rabbit hole again.
> 
> ...


I'd like to personally thank Philbert for encouraging me to put my HF grinder back into service. I use it primarily for lowering raker (depth gauge) height but it comes in handy now and then for other tasks. I still admire at how quiet it is because my ears need a break in the action now and then. My Oregon 511A is old and starting to sound like a tank as its motor bearings slowly give up.

I suppose the man who gave me my HF about nine years ago would be proud to know that I have it in service again. He passed away last August after a long battle with colon and lung cancer. I repaired his chain saws for quite some time and this was his only way of paying me for my work.

Be careful outdoors this weekend, Philbert. The weather boys are talking about some really cold air in our neck of the woods, and you can safely expect about -20 F where you are. Burrrrr...


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## jetsam (Feb 25, 2021)

Philbert said:


> *Better Quality Forester Grinding Wheels for HF Type Grinders*
> 
> I've mentioned the importance of the wheels when grinding chains, and how good wheels can really be an improvement over some of the fine grit, red/brown wheels supplied with many of these low cost grinders. So I was happy to find these Forester brand wheels for the mini-grinders at that store where _'You Save BIG Money'_, especially with the price: $10 for a 'bonus pack', including an 1/8" and a 3/16" grinding wheel. This is lower than what these wheels list for individually on eBay.
> 
> ...


@Philbert-

If you can recall.... if one was willing to modify the cover, would the arbor on the Chicago Electric be long enough to hold a 1/4" wheel?

I am toying with the idea of profiling a wheel for rakers, and just having a $30 raker machine sounds handy.

(Also, I blame you for this.... lol)


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## Philbert (Feb 25, 2021)

jetsam said:


> ... if one was willing to modify the cover, would the arbor on the Chicago Electric be long enough to hold a 1/4" wheel?


Pretty sure the answer is 'No'. Bit of a stretch even getting a 3/16" wheel to fit. But I was able to use that wheel to do some depth gauges with the Forester grinder:
Post #12 https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/forester-04844-chain-grinder.347765/

Philbert


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## 67L36Driver (Feb 27, 2021)

I have to run the cover loose on my Forester to accommodate the 3/16” thick wheel. [emoji19]


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## Philbert (Feb 27, 2021)

67L36Driver said:


> I have to run the cover loose on my Forester to accommodate the 3/16” thick wheel.


Is it the wheel or the paper label that is rubbing?

About 6 posts back @Wood Doctor mentioned ‘shimming’ the side cover of his HF grinder with thin washers.

Philbert


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## 5155 (Jan 1, 2022)

to the top for a friend to see the videos on page one.


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## BerkshirePaws (Jan 1, 2022)

xPosTech said:


> Yup today's "New and Improved" models usually mean that a product was modified to reduce the cost of production. Metal is replaced with plastic, machined parts replaced with stamped, etc. That a product no longer does the job as well as a previous model doesn't seem to matter to the bean counters. Not too many products made like a Henry rifle these days.
> 
> Ted


That’s because majority of people are as bad as the “bean counters”. May be junk but it’s cheap. Manufacturers and retailers are just giving people what they want.


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## BerkshirePaws (Jan 1, 2022)

Good thread Philbert. A little background, I’m a “homeowner/ firewood hack”. I also spent years as a hydraulic tech/ mechanic. Been hand filing four over forty years, usually Stijl or a Granberg. I’d guess I end up sharpening chains about a dozen times a year. 

I recently badly rocked a chain. Not looking forward to all the hand filing it would take to repair I decided to give a cheap grinder a go. Came down to the HF and the cheap Oregon. HF was less than half the price and the bicycle brake clamp looked like a great idea. 

Well, this grinder reminded me of a lesson I learned ( and obviously forgot) many years ago. Don’t buy cheap tools. 

As an exercise or experiment more power to you but this HF grinder is truly a POS though why anyone (including myself) would expect more for $30 is beyond me. 

Flimsy plastic construction, check. 
Anemic motor, check. 
What was surprising was how bad the clamping mechanism is. What is really the deal breaker for me is how the center of the wheel is not centered over the vise. I haven’t measured but looks like an easy 3/16-1/4”.

I can rework the clamp and the flimsy chain stop. I can live with the pathetic motor. I just don’t see how to deal with the misaligned centerline. If someone has addressed this I’d love to see the fix. 

My opinion is if time is money sharpening chains then buy quality. If you can’t justify dropping $250+ on a good quality grinder then My vote is to buy good quality files and guide and learn how to use them. It’s not that hard. A dull undamaged chain can be be sharpened to better than new in minutes. My badly rocked chain ended up taking maybe 45 minutes off and on. I did enjoy the MythBusters clip on polishing a turd. 

If you mistakenly bought one of these turds as I did then please continue to give us ideas on how to overcome their shortcomings.


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## Philbert (Jan 1, 2022)

BerkshirePaws said:


> Well, this grinder reminded me of a lesson I learned ( and obviously forgot) many years ago. Don’t buy cheap tools.


It's very appealing to spend $30, instead of $300, for an item that you only plan to use '_a 'little bit_'. And if your expectations are tempered, that can be OK for some. One of my key sharpening mantras / axioms is:
'_Lots of ways to sharpen a chain: everyone has to find something that works for them'._​
As noted near the start of this thread, it was intended to be a fun distraction for about the cost of a movie ticket and popcorn. The HF grinder is often on sale for $24. You can always resell them, used, on CL or at a garage sale for $10 -$15. A low risk investment.

As noted in the thread, I did learn that the 'older-style' HF grinders (without the 'bicycle brake clamp') worked better:
- because of the simpler design;
- because they came with better wheels (the part that does the actual grinding).
Similar ones are still available, under a variety brand names, on eBay, Amazon, and used at garage sales. Though they are still limited in power, adjustment, precision, etc., they can still be used to initially '_even-up_' a randomly filed, or rocked chain, to be followed by a final sharpening with a file. In other words, for '_roughing in_' the basic shape, or to '_hog off_' the damaged portions, if they are not satisfied with the grinder produced edges. This could still save the user a lot of time, as well as several $ in files.

The Oregon 310-120 grinder, and the Forester version, are a big step up in quality, but are still limited, and I do not like the OEM wheels. But they can be an affordable, and compact option for many. I acquired 20* saw chain grinders (*counted and inventoried, not estimated*) over the past several years, doing these threads, and these are the only 'mini-grinders' I have kept, although, I replaced the grinding wheels with coarser ones.





Forester 04844 Chain Grinder


General Several years back I was challenged to evaluate some of the less expensive 'mini-grinders' for sharpening saw chain. These grinders typically have 4-1/8 or 4-1/4-inch diameter wheels; fixed head tilt angles; and fairly small (70 to 85 Watt) motors. While limited in angle adjustment and...




www.arboristsite.com





The 'standard', 5-3/4", Oregon / Tecomec grinders have more power, are more consistent, allow a greater range of custom angle choices, etc., and I prefer these over the 'clones'. But they can be expensive for a casual sawyer, and frankly I would prefer that they invest in good PPE first. My first one was '_a want_' more than _'a need'_, and it became an interesting hobby. If you like nice tools, keep an eye out for a used one, or consider investing some discretionary income (a.k.a.'birthday money') towards one. It's certainly a good way to attract friends too!

Philbert


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## jetsam (Jan 4, 2022)

I have a better grinder, and I still might buy one of those guys.

I am thinking that with a CBN wheel and an added angled depth stop on the swing arm, you could have a grinder that automatically finds 6° on the tooth and grinds the depth gauge to that height.... how awesome would that be! (You couldn't do this with regular wheels because their height varies and the height of your stop presumably wouldn't.)

I rarely grind these days, but figuring out what that stop looks like and fabricating it would be a fun project, so I may do it yet.


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## Philbert (Jan 4, 2022)

jetsam said:


> I have a better grinder, and I still might buy one of those guys.
> 
> I am thinking that with a CBN wheel and an added angled depth stop on the swing arm, you could have a grinder that automatically finds 6° on the tooth and grinds the depth gauge to that height.... how awesome would that be! (You couldn't do this with regular wheels because their height varies and the height of your stop presumably wouldn't.)
> 
> I rarely grind these days, but figuring out what that stop looks like and fabricating it would be a fun project, so I may do it yet.


Not sure that a HF grinder would have the power to properly spin a CBN wheel. 

Philbert


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