# Diagnosing a Norway Spruce



## Jace (Apr 27, 2010)

3 trees in a row here. The 3rd one has what I believe to be cytospora canker. The 1st one is fine for the most part. But the middle one I'm not for sure on, and would like another opinoin(s). Between the 2nd and 3rd tree, there was another tree, but it blew over last spring with all the rain that was followed by high winds. 

Concerning the 2nd tree: It hasnt nearly the needles(or as dark green even maybe) as the 1st tree. There is some older wounds on top of the limbs that are just a few feet out from the trunk=same distance on each. I really figure maybe it was from freezing temps that expanded the water in the limbs that caused the bust, but I suppose its possible that the tree that blew over coulda caused it.(thoughts?) I believe a lot/most of the problem with this tree is rhizospera needlecast, which I intent to spray with something containing Chlorathonil, or maybe use Bordeaux, as that is what I intend on using on the 3rd tree to treat cytospora canker.

(Some of the photos are from the backside. The patchy (cytospora canker?)tree is what Im considewring as the 3rd tree)

I will post more photos this evening ...


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## Jace (Apr 27, 2010)

1 st photo has comparison of needles between trees, with left one being the "less needled" tree of which that Im trying to figure out.


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## Jace (Apr 27, 2010)

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## Urban Forester (Apr 27, 2010)

Cytospora is vascular, neither chlorothalinil or bordeaux will have any effect, both are contact and preventative and as far as I know neither are labeled for cytospora. Rhizoshpeara is most often associated with blue spruce and in areas where air movement is limited. I believe that the middle spruce may have developed a girdling root or at least a "deformed" root system. I would do a root crown inspection.


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## Jace (Apr 27, 2010)

Thanx for posting UF. I dont know where I came up about Bordeaux for cyto canker, but I got my wires crossed somewhere... 

As far as the Rhizo, I had noticed some purple ends and a few specks on the needles and figured it had a touch of it(+ missing past years needles), a lot of the blue spruces around here are ate up with it (not much needles left except in the top) right now. Ill check out the root crown better tomorrow. I suppose I could do a soil sample, but the trees have been there for a long time with no changes in the soil/lawn that Im aware of. 

As far as quite a few of the branches having old breaks on the top side within the 1st 5' of the limb, have any thoughts? Freeze?


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## Urban Forester (Apr 28, 2010)

Picture #16 seems to show more than just frost cracking, the red "bumps on the branches may be nothing but it is strange. It seems odd that so many branches cracked on the top. I suppose it could be sun scald, but so many???
It would appear that something more than "stress" or environment is at work here. Do you have a land grant university that you could send samples to?


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## Jace (Apr 28, 2010)

Urban Forester said:


> Picture #16 seems to show more than just frost cracking, the red "bumps on the branches may be nothing but it is strange. It seems odd that so many branches cracked on the top. I suppose it could be sun scald, but so many???
> It would appear that something more than "stress" or environment is at work here. Do you have a land grant university that you could send samples to?




There was another tree just as big planted right next to it. Owner said it died. Im not sure if somehow the removal of it could have caused the damage on top of those limbs(about 6 limbs on that side), Im bankin that it did just because most if not all top damaged limbs are on that 180* side of the tree.

Some of the limbs (top broken)did have sort of a "red colored callised over rough bumpy" look.

Another thing is...in Dec. 2007 had an ice storm, but the ice storm branches that are broken form the ice storm break over short (differently)instead of in a long 4'-5' strip, so that option is out IMO.

On the samples to a university, yes I can send off some.


Concerning the 1st tree that I believe to have cyto canker, the dead limbs also had many small pin holes the size of the tip of an ink pin in them. Not sure if that happened after the limb died from cyto, or maybe that is whats killing the limbs. Whats causin the pin holes?, I havent tried to look it up yet. (Maybe cyto isnt the culprit) 

Thanks for helpin me figure this out. I'd really like to because the guy had 6 trees originally, now then 1 died and 2 blew over leaving him with just 3, and 2 of those are hurtin for certain.


I could take more photos of particuars if it would help anymore.


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## Urban Forester (Apr 29, 2010)

Jace said:


> Concerning the 1st tree that I believe to have cyto canker, the dead limbs also had many small pin holes the size of the tip of an ink pin in them.



The pin holes are entrance holes from ips beetles, they love weak/stressed conifers. Healthy trees produce too much pitch, so they suffocate when trying to drill in. The fact that a couple blew over and now one is in decline MAY indicate a common problem, i.e. poor root development. This may be what is causing some of the problems. Can you get pictures of the root flares?


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## Jace (Apr 30, 2010)

Urban Forester said:


> The pin holes are entrance holes from ips beetles, they love weak/stressed conifers. Healthy trees produce too much pitch, so they suffocate when trying to drill in. The fact that a couple blew over and now one is in decline MAY indicate a common problem, i.e. poor root development. This may be what is causing some of the problems. Can you get pictures of the root flares?




yep


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## Ax-man (May 2, 2010)

I haven't looked at all the pictured and only skimmed through the thread as far as reading all the details. I'll make just a few comments.

Those Spruce trees are definately sick. 

Urban makes many good points as to why they are declining. Poor root development is probaly the underlying cause. Other factors could be drainage, soil ph or is lacking some minerals. 

C. canker cannot be ruled out. The disease is not limited to just Blue Spruce. Blue Spruce is a common host for Cyto but this canker disease hits most evergreens. It affects not only members Spruce family but can also infect Concolor Fir and Douglas fir.

Cyto hits spruce trees the hardest. In Fir trees the canker is much more slower in killing limbs and can disappear for a brief time and then reinfect a tree depending on the season.

We have Cyto present in our tree farm on the larger Spruce trees and some large D. Fir trees. The trees we have grubbed out showed they were either planted too deep or had girdling roots or were too close to each other.


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## Jace (May 3, 2010)

trunk & root flare photos ( not the best photos tho)


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## Jace (May 3, 2010)

close up needle photos.

I sent off for a soil analysis this morning.


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## Jace (May 3, 2010)

1 st photo B4 trimmin out dead last Thursday, 2nd photo afterward.
3rd is the trunk up high on the 2nd (I think) tree.


Cyto, if it is that, is pretty hard to deal with, right?


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