# Pamphlet to hand out with estimates.



## Ghillie

I have been tossing around the idea of putting together a pamphlet to hand out with my estimates highlighting the differences between the service I am offering compared to the "two guys, a truck and a chainsaw" services.

Mainly the liability insurance and workers compensation coverage for my employees. Touching on how a lot of people try to get by by claiming guys as "subcontractors" when by federal definition (no insurance, no personal equipment, no experience etc...) they are employees and how the owners liability insurance will not cover any damage they do.

Has anybody done this before?


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## stihlhere

i have not but have discussed it with my wife several times. I had thought some good photos of mild to wild jobs with a explanation of services offered and insurances carried. if they were cheep enough you could leave them at your local saw shop like you would cards. I had a trifold design in mind.


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## Ghillie

That's along the lines that I'm thinking except I wasn't thinking of advertising, more as a guideline so that the customer can better judge other estimates. If they're comparing apples to apples or more like apples to oranges.

Something to use once the foot is inside the door.


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## jefflovstrom

stihlhere said:


> i have not but have discussed it with my wife several times. I had thought some good photos of mild to wild jobs with a explanation of services offered and insurances carried. if they were cheep enough you could leave them at your local saw shop like you would cards. I had a trifold design in mind.



I think credentials help. ISA cert. arborist is the way to get away from the same custumer base as the " two guys and a chainsaw" thing. 
Jeff


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## Ghillie

I intend to have that certification taken care of by the end of July. It will be interesting to see how the people in the area will respond to it. There are only 4 Cert. Arborists in the area and none of them work for a local tree service.

I just talked to a customer who said another tree service wouldn't "top" his tree untill September so that he wouldn't kill it if we had a drought. Explained to him I don't top, and why. He responded well and we agreed on how would be best to trim back the tree off of his house.

I am by no means a salesman, but educating the customer and letting him/her decide what they want to do seems to work for me.


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## jefflovstrom

Ghillie said:


> I intend to have that certification taken care of by the end of July. It will be interesting to see how the people in the area will respond to it. There are only 4 Cert. Arborists in the area and none of them work for a local tree service.
> 
> I just talked to a customer who said another tree service wouldn't "top" his tree untill September so that he wouldn't kill it if we had a drought. Explained to him I don't top, and why. He responded well and we agreed on how would be best to trim back the tree off of his house.
> 
> I am by no means a salesman, but educating the customer and letting him/her decide what they want to do seems to work for me.



Sounds like you are on the right track. There is a reason probably that the 4 certs are not working locally. Makes it good for you to work locally. Once you get your cert. , you will have alot. 
Jeff
ISA cert. #WE-7624A
CTSP #519


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## treemandan

Sometime the best salesman isn't even a salesman. 

Also try to limit the " holding yourself higher than everybody else and bashing the competition" thing. Personally, I believe that to be a sign of defecit.

I do not put on heirs... or clean clothes but am still able to get my points across. 

If you are going to hand out pamphlets I would think they would be on the subject of the actuall work you do and a presentation of education. Such as pamphlets on tree planting, tree trimming, tree support. This in itself will show the people where you are at rather than showing them a picture of some poor wretch. Good visual aids help on a positive note but aren't considered professional in a a negative sense when its about other's. Besides, when you look around you just might find you are the goofball tree company that others make fun of so its best to keep that kind of stuff on the down-low in mixed company.

I used all the pictures I ever put up here to demostrate what I was talking about to a client.


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## treemandan

Here is the subcontractor issue :deadhorse:


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## Ghillie

Oh, I did not intend to bash any other tree company. I guess a list (of sorts)of what I bring to the table, and why (example.. Worker's Compensation) Just to present information to the customer as they are sitting down to go over estimates. If they are looking for the cheapest price, so be it. I never try to undercut anybody.

I realize that I might live in a glass house and I try to make the stones I throw as small as possible.


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## Ghillie

treemandan said:


> Here is the subcontractor issue :deadhorse:



Yes, if I do mention it, it will be a side note. Educating the customer as to what is exactly going to be the work done and why I think is the key.


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## treemandan

jefflovstrom said:


> I think credentials help. ISA cert. arborist is the way to get away from the same custumer base as the " two guys and a chainsaw" thing.
> Jeff



But its not the only way, besides I am just 1 guy with two chainsaws... BIG DIFFERENCE !:greenchainsaw:


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## Ghillie

Ghillie said:


> Yes, if I do mention it, it will be a side note. Educating the customer as to what is exactly going to be the work done and why I think is the key.




I reread my original post and that almost seems to contradict itself. I hate it when all of my thoughts do not come out clearly in my first post.


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## treemandan

Ghillie said:


> I reread my original post and that almost seems to contradict itself. I hate it when all of my thoughts do not come out clearly in my first post.



The nagative adverts? Its a tough line to discern. I see a lot of ads saying " we aren't going to rip you off like everybody else" or " we are better than the other guys cause we care". Uh huh!
You will find ( and it seems like you are a natural) that being natural is the only way to go. No hype, no baited advertising, no " we are better". Just tell them like you would want to be told. Any pamphlets, speach or other propoganda along this line works real good.
With this storm we just had I told one lady to call around to see if she could get a better price with someone who had a bucket. I told another ( over the phone and after asking if she had gotten other estimates) that she should just go with the people she allready had look at the job as I didn't think I could do better nor get it done fast enough. Then I went to see some more lesbians ( it was a referal from the LESBIANS ON FROG HOLLOW) and told em how it is and it felt good.
It takes time to cultivate a client and the best way is to let them know you honestly and that's true for many reasons. yeah, you get some hit and run but all in all clients will come back for the natural.That is unless they are trying to run a game which you don't want anyway. Its not like we are selling cars here.


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## Blakesmaster

This thread could easily turn into selling tactics but I'm with the Dan on this one. I've started just telling potential customers what I would do with the trees if they were mine...regardless of the price. They may want them topped originally, or taken down but I just tell them flat out, what I would do. Sometimes it's just a little thinning, sometimes it's removal, but it's HONEST. And the people that pick up on my sincerity eat it up and I tend to work extra hard on those jobs as if those were MY trees. I've been doing well with it. As far as your pamphlet idea, it's tits. I should make one up myself. I would try to push more of the positives of what you do than the negatives of others practices. Does the ISA put out any literature in a pamphlet form along these lines? It would be nice to have an overhead body of degree'd persons pushing proper practices and all you'd have to do is stand there and say, "This is how I operate." It's then no longer you selling your work, but more of you telling the customer that this is the way it's done, which just so happens to be the way I do it.


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## jefflovstrom

treemandan said:


> But its not the only way, besides I am just 1 guy with two chainsaws... BIG DIFFERENCE !:greenchainsaw:



A saw in each hand, 
Jeff


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## treemandan

Just the other day I went out to give an proposal to guy who needed maple limbs cut off a dilapidated vaccant house he was trying to flip. What does that tell you right there? 
He allready had a bid of 750 from a company. I got there and saw many options. I took the 750 bid to mean they were just going to remove the droopers touching the roof and I made the guy come out to meet me. I waited an hour, I had lunch and walked around a second hand store and bought some books.
I talked to the guy as we walked around. I told him i could give a bid for 750 to clear the roof but then I wouldn't be surprised if when I was done he called me and said " hey, I thought you were going to clear the roof". That is exactly what I said and I knew this guy wanted to spend the least.
So we settled for double the price and double the work. I didn't bash the other company though I think i could have for not taking the time I did to go over the situation thoroughly but that is not going to help me. In fact what I did say about the other company was only positive and I still got the job.
But don't get me wrong as some people can't stand me and I do not always get the job. Now all I have to do is get the job done and make sure this crummy house flipping bimer boy pays me for it.


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## Ghillie

treemandan said:


> Just the other day I went out to give an proposal to guy who needed maple limbs cut off a dilapidated vaccant house he was trying to flip. What does that tell you right there?
> He allready had a bid of 750 from a company. I got there and saw many options. I took the 750 bid to mean they were just going to remove the droopers touching the roof and I made the guy come out to meet me. I waited an hour, I had lunch and walked around a second hand store and bought some books.
> I talked to the guy as we walked around. I told him i could give a bid for 750 to clear the roof but then I wouldn't be surprised if when I was done he called me and said " hey, I thought you were going to clear the roof". That is exactly what I said and I knew this guy wanted to spend the least.
> So we settled for double the price and double the work. I didn't bash the other company though I think i could have for not taking the time I did to go over the situation thoroughly but that is not going to help me. In fact what I did say about the other company was only positive and I still got the job.
> But don't get me wrong as some people can't stand me and I do not always get the job.




Knowing exactly what the problem is that they are trying to solve is a big thing.


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## jefflovstrom

treemandan said:


> Just the other day I went out to give an proposal to guy who needed maple limbs cut off a dilapidated vaccant house he was trying to flip. What does that tell you right there?
> He allready had a bid of 750 from a company. I got there and saw many options. I took the 750 bid to mean they were just going to remove the droopers touching the roof and I made the guy come out to meet me. I waited an hour, I had lunch and walked around a second hand store and bought some books.
> I talked to the guy as we walked around. I told him i could give a bid for 750 to clear the roof but then I wouldn't be surprised if when I was done he called me and said " hey, I thought you were going to clear the roof". That is exactly what I said and I knew this guy wanted to spend the least.
> So we settled for double the price and double the work. I didn't bash the other company though I think i could have for not taking the time I did to go over the situation thoroughly but that is not going to help me. In fact what I did say about the other company was only positive and I still got the job.
> But don't get me wrong as some people can't stand me and I do not always get the job. Now all I have to do is get the job done and make sure this crummy house flipping bimer boy pays me for it.



So, you feel good, right? 
Jeff


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## ATH

Blakesmaster said:


> ....Does the ISA put out any literature in a pamphlet form along these lines? It would be nice to have an overhead body of degree'd persons pushing proper practices and all you'd have to do is stand there and say, "This is how I operate." It's then no longer you selling your work, but more of you telling the customer that this is the way it's done, which just so happens to be the way I do it.


My thought exactally.

http://secure.isa-arbor.com/webstore/Why-Hire-an-Arborist-brochures-P130C5.aspx

here is a linnk to the whole list: http://secure.isa-arbor.com/webstore/Brochures-C5.aspx


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## ATH

jefflovstrom said:


> Sounds like you are on the right track. There is a reason probably that the 4 certs are not working locally. Makes it good for you to work locally. Once you get your cert. , you will have alot.
> Jeff
> ISA cert. #WE-7624A
> CTSP #519



There was only one other company here with Cert Arbs, I am only the second. I find that there is good demand.

Most of the well-known local names don't do good work and clients who bring it up say one of 2 things: "I hired Company X and they did a terrible job before" -OR- "I have always hired Company Y, and have been happy with them, will you top my trees like they did"? I bite my toung, and just explain why what I am offering is the best thing for their trees. I try hard to not belittle anybody or their work - just let right be right, there is plenty of science behind proper tree care and when somebody knows I am not just making things up 'because taht is the way grandpa did it', I find it sells.

I agree 100% with Ghillie's statement: "I am by no means a salesman, but educating the customer and letting him/her decide what they want to do seems to work for me."

Me too. (or I am dealing with clients who already have a certain knowledge, and as long as I am reasonable, the job is mine...)


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## Ghillie

ATH said:


> My thought exactally.
> 
> http://secure.isa-arbor.com/webstore/Why-Hire-an-Arborist-brochures-P130C5.aspx
> 
> here is a linnk to the whole list: http://secure.isa-arbor.com/webstore/Brochures-C5.aspx



I thought I had looked through all of what the ISA had to offer. I guess I should look again.


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## Ghillie

Blakesmaster said:


> This thread could easily turn into selling tactics but I'm with the Dan on this one. I've started just telling potential customers what I would do with the trees if they were mine...regardless of the price. They may want them topped originally, or taken down but I just tell them flat out, what I would do. Sometimes it's just a little thinning, sometimes it's removal, but it's HONEST. And the people that pick up on my sincerity eat it up and I tend to work extra hard on those jobs as if those were MY trees. I've been doing well with it. As far as your pamphlet idea, it's tits. I should make one up myself. I would try to push more of the positives of what you do than the negatives of others practices. Does the ISA put out any literature in a pamphlet form along these lines? It would be nice to have an overhead body of degree'd persons pushing proper practices and all you'd have to do is stand there and say, "This is how I operate." It's then no longer you selling your work, but more of you telling the customer that this is the way it's done, which just so happens to be the way I do it.



:agree2:


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## jefflovstrom

ATH said:


> There was only one other company here with Cert Arbs, I am only the second. I find that there is good demand.
> 
> Most of the well-known local names don't do good work and clients who bring it up say one of 2 things: "I hired Company X and they did a terrible job before" -OR- "I have always hired Company Y, and have been happy with them, will you top my trees like they did"? I bite my toung, and just explain why what I am offering is the best thing for their trees. I try hard to not belittle anybody or their work - just let right be right, there is plenty of science behind proper tree care and when somebody knows I am not just making things up 'because taht is the way grandpa did it', I find it sells.
> 
> I agree 100% with Ghillie's statement: "I am by no means a salesman, but educating the customer and letting him/her decide what they want to do seems to work for me."
> 
> Me too. (or I am dealing with clients who already have a certain knowledge, and as long as I am reasonable, the job is mine...)



If you sell "tree care" and convince them that they are not" paying by the ton", your client base will grow. I live in an area that is palm tree abundant. It took about 3 years to convince several of our clients that we would only remove the fruit, seed pods, dead or hanging fronds. Basically, trimming to 9 and 3. The palms that are over pruned grow much faster. Remember, a prune cut is a wound. The international response to pruning is vigorous growth. 
Jeff


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## jefflovstrom

Ghillie said:


> I thought I had looked through all of what the ISA had to offer. I guess I should look again.



Ghillie, PM me your address and I will send you some samples of what you want. If you want. 
Jeff


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## Ghillie

jefflovstrom said:


> Ghillie, PM me your address and I will send you some samples of what you want. If you want.
> Jeff



Thanks Jeff, those samples were exactly what I was looking for. Just placed an order for some on proper care for young and mature trees and what to look for in an arborist.


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## jefflovstrom

Ghillie said:


> Thanks Jeff, those samples were exactly what I was looking for. Just placed an order for some on proper care for young and mature trees and what to look for in an arborist.



I think it makes you seperate from guys with a truck and a saw and in this economy, we should promoting proper tree care and by doing so, we build trust and assurance. People are smart. Let them see un-biased facts. They should not be paying "by the ton", they pay for tree care. Alot of posters here and other sites have animosity against certifications. That is ok. To each his own. People want to know you care and know what to do. 
Jeff


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## lxt

Jeff...good posts! & he has it down, Im in an area where no one really sells tree care except me & the fact that my team & I let our talents speak for us, you can tell people till your blue in the face how good you are & how you do it the right way, my competitors do the same thing.........But, when it comes to word of mouth and a good, reputable, honest service that knows what they`re *really* doing......right here is where you wanna be!!

I had brochures & bid qoute "rainchecks" & every other informational type item you could think of, in the end just show your customers what you can do, be fair, etc... personally a website would be much better!!!!

you put into play what Jeff told you & what I mentioned....you`ll be booked! right now im 4-5 weeks out & thank God every day!!!!



LXT................


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## jefflovstrom

lxt said:


> Jeff...good posts! & he has it down, Im in an area where no one really sells tree care except me & the fact that my team & I let our talents speak for us, you can tell people till your blue in the face how good you are & how you do it the right way, my competitors do the same thing.........But, when it comes to word of mouth and a good, reputable, honest service that knows what they`re *really* doing......right here is where you wanna be!!
> 
> I had brochures & bid qoute "rainchecks" & every other informational type item you could think of, in the end just show your customers what you can do, be fair, etc... personally a website would be much better!!!!
> 
> you put into play what Jeff told you & what I mentioned....you`ll be booked! right now im 4-5 weeks out & thank God every day!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> LXT................



Well, thank-you, LXT, Your niceness confuses me and wants to argue with you! LOL--BTW. You are a good arguerer, Ha!
Jeff


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## John Paul Sanborn

jefflovstrom said:


> They should not be paying "by the ton", they pay for tree care.



I find that I can close at a higher rate when I can walk a site with a prospective client and sell myself vs. a vague process. I speak to what we do and don't do, not what others may.

When talking about "trimming" I will say something like; 
"trim away from the house, and prune the rest for good long term structure."

"pruning is wounding, and if you have several wounds in the same area the dieback can come together and form a decay pocket. I do not like taking off many large limbs."

"Raising and gutting the inside of the tree can cause stress in the summer, I like to lightly thin the inside and go out on the tips to take some weight off the leverage"

They may not remember all you say, but hey will remember that you are thoughtful and knowledgeable.


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## jefflovstrom

John Paul Sanborn said:


> "pruning is wounding,
> 
> They may not remember all you say, but hey will remember that you are thoughtful and knowledgeable.




Jeff


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## dirt_worx

Hey guys just wondering, I haven't looked into it far enough yet but where exactly do you get certified for different things? I don't know if there is a website with a listing of certifications or just think something up and start researching? Thanks for the info!


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## John Paul Sanborn

What do you want a cert for? ISA is for arboist, and the local chapters proctor the tests.

IPM is handled by local states, which license also, some munis require a local license too.


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## dirt_worx

Honestly I don't even know, have been interested in the tree businesses for a long time but hadn't made it into the licensing options. Have been researching alot of equipment and paying attention to estimates trying to learn but I don't know what all can be licensed or what the licenses are even standing for. There are alot of those week day warrior types with a poorly ran business and I'm trying to avoid that lol. Just shoot me some ideas I'll go from there.


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## oneils LLC

*pamphlets*

Pamphlets are a good Idea. I think it works best to use what your customer have said about you in your pamphlets to make yourself look good. checkout my home page on my website and you will see what I mean. Just talking about how great you are is self rightous and isn't convincing because all of our competitors are doing it too. Also, giving the customer information from the ISA or information that you have written about the proposed work makes it true. If it is written it must be true. ISA pamphlets can be printed off at www.treesaregood.com. This has a lot of information for homeowners and for us to give to customers.


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