# microascender vs. friction hitch on lanyards?



## Tom Dunlap (Aug 21, 2002)

Using one of many friction hitches with a slack tender is cheaper than a mechanical device and can be adjusted while under a load. The only mechanical device that I know of that can be adjusted under load is the Grillon.

I use a three over one Distel.

Tom


----------



## jsirbasku (Aug 21, 2002)

I too use a distal hitch for my lanyard, cept' I use a 3 over 2 distal so it grips and holds from both directions if i need to use the other end for alternate lanyarding technique. I do not use a pulley for tending but the lanyard is placed thru a biner behind the d ring directly behind the distal. This allows me to simply pull on the lanyard behind the biner and it tends just as a pulley would. When i need to use the other end(rarely) i just unclip it out of the biner and adjust it manually.


----------



## John Paul Sanborn (Aug 21, 2002)

I've used a prussick with an I&I sling (tress cord?) works real good for double lanyarding.

Been using the Grillon on 30 ft lanyard for about 3 years now, I like being able to play a little out while under load. 

May go to a tress cord just to get rid of the bulk though.


----------



## TheTreeSpyder (Aug 21, 2002)

i don't think you'd want a knot tender on a 2 way lanyard..........

i like microscender on one of those Sherrill twisted maillon clevis (#15991), very adjustable, clean, discreet package, that lines up just right with that link in there!

i can usually 'buck up' enough to adjust 'loaded'.


----------



## Greg (Aug 21, 2002)

I also use a 3 over 1 distal with a micro pulley on a william biner. On my 20' lanyard. This works great and as tom says it does very well under load. I used to use a prissic so I could use the system as a double ender, and I've played with the distal double ended also, but adding the pulley adds so much ease to my system that I just use it one way. I don't own a Macro or Micro ascender so I can't really compare, but I never have to muscle my distal, slides like butter & bites like a steel trap.
Greg


----------



## Tim Gardner (Aug 21, 2002)

I used the 3 & 3 V.T. on my flipline for a while before changing over to the Microcender. The V.T. worked great except for the length and when I got pine sap on it. The cender for me is more compact and much easier to adjust. If you are happy with a friction type adjustment on your flipline, I don’t see any reason to spend the bucks on the cender. I am very satisfied with my decision to go with the Microcender.


Lanyard Top 


Lanyard Side


----------



## John Paul Sanborn (Aug 21, 2002)

Try going to a distal/swabish that is real close to the biner. No pulley in the mix. then you have the 2 sided usage. 

I love my long lanyard, because I use it as a second TIP, but frequently I find myself wishing I could double end it. Specialy in small or real dense trees where the length can get in the way.

I'll probably have another peice of gear in my truck come TCI. Spent too much this past month now already.


----------



## TheTreeSpyder (Aug 21, 2002)

Nice application Tim!

But JP is probably right about distal, incidentally the less play deal is why i like small 'biner in lifeline knot tender. http://www.arboristsite.com//showthread.php?s=&threadid=4960

Jp do you have both ends of lanyard connected to you when you say using it as a seperate TIP philosophy/strategy?

Of course no one would want to have a 2 way lanyard with any kind of knot tender enabled that would serve to push the knot the wrong way on loading (expanding lanyard loop rather than shrinking it)! Well, ok ya wouldn't want to do that to a 1 way lanyard either, jest a whole lot easier to imagine that getting dangerous on a 2 way!


----------



## Kneejerk Bombas (Aug 21, 2002)

Tom wrote:

"The only mechanical device that I know of that can be adjusted under load is the Grillon."

What about the mimono and the lockjack? 
Think either of these would make a good replacement for the prussic and fair lead?

Then Tim wrote:
"I used the 3 & 3 V.T. ..."

Then linked a picture of a 3 loop and 2 cross M.T..

Don't mean to be picky, but these are points I have questioned in the past and was just wondering if I might get clarification.


----------



## Tim Gardner (Aug 21, 2002)

Mike, from the pics in my copy of the "Tree Climber's Companion", the hitch I tied is the 3&3 VT. Could be wrong but it worked very good on my lanyard but i did not like it much on my climbing line. That is why I went to an 8&1 with a 3/16 cord (5,000 lbs).


----------



## Tim Gardner (Aug 21, 2002)

"....What is called the French Prusik in the United States is a versatile knot with variations applicable to climbing or rigging situations. The Machard tresse is tied with a fixed loop of rope, while the Valdôtain tresse is tied with a single piece of rope, with knots or splices in either end. There are many variations of this hitch, varying the number of wraps and braids......"


This is from "The Tree Climber's Companion".

"There are two variations of the French Prusik: the Machard tresse (Mt.) and the Valdotain tresse (Vt.). The Mt. is tied to the rope with a Prusik loop or webbing sling and the Vt. is tied with a single length of cord or webbing with end-line attachment knots or eye splices....."

Mike, I tied my hitch with an eye & eye cord. How could it be an MT? Just wanted to ask.


----------



## Tim Gardner (Aug 21, 2002)

DAN, try it on the ground FIRST! That is a tricky hitch. If you do not tie it correctly, it will KILL YOU! It has to be tested with regaurd to cord/rope type and length. I think Mike is the local expert on the VT, er um, MT, he should be able to explain it to you.


----------



## Tim Gardner (Aug 21, 2002)

I would not use that kern unless it is rated 2,500 lbs or higher. it sounds like accessory cord. I use 3/16 Tech Cord that is rated @ 5,000#. It also needs to be compatible with the climbing line. 

Sounds like a question for Tom.


----------



## Tom Dunlap (Aug 21, 2002)

*It's spelled...distEl...*

Hubert Kowalewski, the Lock Jack inventor, corrected my spelling last weekend 

If the accessory cord has at least a 2,700 pound breaking strngth it can be used as a friction hitch or ascending loop. Since we load two legs the combined support equals 5.4K#

I wouldn't recommend the vt/mt for a lanyard adjuster because there is a very good chance that the twists and braids could become cinched together and that would lead to some slack or slip in the adjuster.

If you're setting up a double ended lanyard, test the adjusting knot while under load. There are so many friction variables with all of the cord/ropes you might find that you need to add a turn on the top or bottom.

The Mimono and LJ aren't configured to use as a lanyard adjuster. Hubert is shipping me one of his AFCs. He said that he plans on making a similar unit as a lanyard adjuster. The action of his new tool is similar to the LJ so I think that we might be seeing another new tool soon. Look for more by TCI time.

My current lanyard setup is with a double ended lanyard with an adjuster on each end. A double sheave pulley is used as a slack tender. Each end/Distel/sheave is color coded so that I know which one to pull. This setup is still under construction. So far, after about two weeks, I think I like it a lot. Being able to have a really long lanyard AND two adjustable lanyards makes the occasional rope tangle worthwhile.

Tom


----------



## Kevin (Aug 21, 2002)

I`m using 5/16 kern from Sherrill rated at 3,630lbs.
I have it tied in a Distal, 3up, 2down.


----------



## TheTreeSpyder (Aug 21, 2002)

Ummm Tom, adjuster each way stays in place? Like knot tender? Does it disable 1 side so when you lean back it doesn't push friction hitch open?


----------



## Rob Murphy (Aug 22, 2002)

On my flipline i use 10 mm Spectra on a tear drop malion with pulley it about 3 meters long only one way. My hitch is a version of the french ...I think..it just 5-6 tigh coils around the 13mm XTC line similar to the knot on the Sherrill tips site ( they call it a french) but less coils. Spectra is very strong 4600 Kg breaking load for the 10 mm but ....VERY slippery!!!!stich knots or tighten with pliers and inspect each day.
Has anyone used it ??? know anyone using it. 
We use ascenders on our steel core fliplines ...Yeh...better on pine sap. only use these when we have to as the knots are a lot smoother and less clutter.
We will be making some long lanyards for big tree climbing ...JPS what do you think of a little rope bucket for the long line?? behind the D rings ( I use small D rings lower profile less likley to catch on twigs etc)


----------



## Rob Murphy (Aug 22, 2002)

*Re: It's spelled...distEl...*

The Mimono and LJ aren't configured to use as a lanyard adjuster. Hubert is shipping me one of his AFCs. He said that he plans on making a similar unit as a lanyard adjuster. The action of his new tool is similar to the LJ so I think that we might be seeing another new tool soon. Look for more by TCI time.

Tom [/B][/QUOTE]
How long before Petzl starts making a version? I was looking at a Gri Gri theres a lot in them and they are much cheaper than LJ etc.Its only a matter of time and markets...


----------



## Tim Gardner (Aug 22, 2002)

Tom,

Thanks for the numbers on the friction hitch cord. I am looking forward to hearing more about your lanyard setup when you get it finished. Maybe some pictures too?


----------



## Tom Dunlap (Aug 22, 2002)

The way that I have my pulley mounted it doesn't come in contact with the loaded end of the lanyard. It acts just like any slack 
tender configuration.

Last year I heard rumors of Petzl working on a mechanical climbing hitch. The Gri gri has so much internal friction that it's hard to 
ascend. Also, the gri gri will not lock up unless there is a shock load. With a gradual load there's a chance that it would slip.

Here's an interesting way of using a Gri gri in an SRT ascent system. 

http://storrick.cnchost.com/board/?topic=topic1&msg=49

After getting to the work position the climber can pull off the upper rigging and work down the tree. Since the Gri gri isn't made 
as a rappel device a lot of caution needs to be excercised. The Gri gir doesn' have the heat dissipation capacity the a good rap 
device should have. Also, Petzl did not design the Gri gri as a rap device. You're on your own using it in this configuration.

Tom


----------



## Kneejerk Bombas (Aug 22, 2002)

Tom wrote:
"Hubert is shipping me one of his AFCs. He said that he plans on making a similar unit as a lanyard adjuster. The action of his new tool is similar to the LJ so I think that we might be seeing another new tool soon. Look for more by TCI time."

Then every climber will need three of them. One for the AFC, one for the lanyard, and one for the climbing hitch.

We(arborist's)need a prussic replacement for these three spots, a tool that will work for all three applications. It would be a money maker, if someone could come up with such a tool.


----------



## John Paul Sanborn (Aug 22, 2002)

I mentioned th long lanyard to Tobe while they were doing the last catalog. He uses a mesh bag to tend the running end of is lanyard when rec climbing.

I keep the daisey cahin on 2 biners on the gear loop of my saddle I keep enough out of it so that I have a droop on each end of the Grillon coming to my boot top, gives me maybe 3.5-4 yards to play with before messing with the chains. But then my legs are over a yard long.

Mike Wendt ties it up in a double fishemans loop of throwline and pulls-tucks as needed, I think I seen a guy do the same with a bungey.


----------



## TheTreeSpyder (Aug 22, 2002)

i've tried a throwline prusik for this slack 'tending', but then went this way: (picture).

i think anything that traps the free end could be a problem, but then i'm the only dumb-me using 3 strand, so am the one more sensitive to that issue (of twists getting loccked in).


----------

