# I Believe...



## MasterBlaster (Sep 19, 2003)

Chain brakes have no place on a top-handled saw used for climbing. Maybe for trainees, but probably not even then. They are the first thing that comes off, right before the spark arrester.


I KNOW I'm not the only one who does this. But then again,


Maybe I am?


Don't everyone freak out at once - you'll jam up the server.


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## MasterBlaster (Sep 19, 2003)

Sorry dude, try not to get too upset.

Go have a smoke. Prepare to endure.


(I was responding to a post wussy RJS deleted...  )


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## TheTreeSpyder (Sep 19, 2003)

i wouldn't go without a chain brake. On air or ground.
i use it too much, for one thing.........


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## Matt Follett (Sep 19, 2003)

*Stupid*

I don't jump up and down to often but I'll POUNCE on this

NO WAY!!!!!!! that is the saw's most valuable tool/safety device.

I can't even imagine using a saw anymore without one.

In the tree that's one of those things that makes it a controlled environment

The suggestion begs me to ponder your sanity

I don't really care about kick back, we've come to far in chain developments to really make that an issue for an experianced/aware user, but it's still there in case... 
The fact is no chain coes to a complete stop right when you let off the trigger, no matter how well tuned... with all those soft ropes holding me up, I like to know I can stop the saw on a dime if something happens, besides the security of know that if I accidentally pull the triger I'm not lible to open my chest up as I set the saw up in a blocking situation

Ah this isn't even worth the completion of my point.


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## ORclimber (Sep 19, 2003)

To each his own. I hit the the chain brake after every cut in the tree, to much stuff hanging off my belt that could get cut by a running chain, not to mention me feet.


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## xander9727 (Sep 19, 2003)

A top handled saws design makes it harder to counteract kickback (your hands are closer together). This fact alone should be reason enough to not "Fool" with it. Other than the occasional accidental engagement why wouldn't you want a chain brake? If that's your logic, better get rid of the kill switch too.

Then again this is from a guy who considers chainsaw injuries "scratches".

If ignorance is bliss I'm sure you're smiling.


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## MasterBlaster (Sep 19, 2003)

> _Originally posted by TheTreeSpyder _
> *i wouldn't go without a chain brake. On air or ground.
> i use it too much, for one thing......... *



I TOTALLY AGREE chain brakes are necessary on ANY saw that is not a top-handled saw. My argument is that a Climbing Saw is designed differently and used specifically for a different purpose than any other saw. IMO, chain brakes are there to satisfy ins co and stop homeowners from hurting themselves.
True, what I'm referring to is an advanced type of saw, not for the novice. So shoot me.

Spidey, how do you use your Climbing Saw's chain brake in the tree? I truly am interested. It justs gets in the way and has no use whatsoever for me.

I would be afraid to operate my 066 without it's CB.


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## Ryan Willock (Sep 19, 2003)

I for one happen to be a big fan of chain breaks. I've been on roof tops blocking crap down all day and really appricate having the chain break when I crank the saw. Think about it, you have to drop start it and there is a better than average chance that you could get a bite on your leg


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## MasterBlaster (Sep 19, 2003)

I don't 'drop' my saw to start it, and I TURN IT OFF when I'm through cutting.

Where does the chainbrake fit in here?


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## rahtreelimbs (Sep 19, 2003)

Not using a chainbrake, or should I say: not having one on a climbing saw, is irresponsible and just plain dumb. People that are advocating this are probably in to much of a hurry. An accident waiting to happen!!!


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## murphy4trees (Sep 19, 2003)

Chainbrake fits precisely between the tip of the bar and the tip of your nose... Chainbrakes are a GOOD HABIT!!! In forrestry safety training it is recommend using the chainbrake everytime you plan on taking more than three steps... 
As far as top handled saws go the question was asked "why would you want to remove the CB?"... You didn't answer...I would guess not for the weight.... So if not the weight then what??? I would again guess that it's for saw handling in tight places between crotches etc... So I would again guess that you don't carry a handsaw on your saddle...
So consider this an invitation to progressive arboriculture:
Buy a Silky Zubat and leave the chainbrake alone.... You might find that you don't even need a chinsaw at all on the majority of pruning climbs.... And that is a new world... You're going to feel like Peter Pan up there, flying around from limb to limb.... Try it and you'll be glad you did...


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## geofore (Sep 19, 2003)

*chainbrake*

I do appreciate having a chain brake on the top handle saws though I used saws without chain brakes for 30+ years. Your reaction time to kickback does not increase with age nor your luck increase with time. The odds that the chainbrake will save you from injury out weigh not having a chain brake on the top handle saws. The weighted ones that sense kickback and lock the chain are an improvement over the ones that had to hit the back of your hand to lock. What gains do you make removing the chain break? If it is in your way when cutting you need to change your style of cutting. With low kickback chains and the narrow low kick bars you are still safer with the chain brake. I think you are trolling with this.


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## murphy4trees (Sep 19, 2003)

Rocky, 
I was going to PS my last post here with "just ask Brian", but I decided to leave you out of this muck.... So of course I had a big smile with reading your piece...


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## NeTree (Sep 19, 2003)

ANSI eat your heart out....

SHEESH.


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## murphy4trees (Sep 19, 2003)

Rockey quote "Too bad my Zubat doesn't have a chain brake. Damm thing cuts me more than my chainsaw ever did!"

Are you using two hands to remove/replace it in sheath???
That's when I got bit.... moving a little fast and OUCH....

Since I changed my saddle set up at Spidey's suggestion, it hasn't happenned once...One hand only, in and out.... Gotta move the chainsaw to the left side.... Lanysrd throwing and zubat handling require right hand... Chainsaw on and off can be done with the left... 
Try it and you'll be glad you did...


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## TimberMcPherson (Sep 20, 2003)

The chain brake on my top handled saws are vital, stopping the saw after every cut is just a waste of time, energy and wear on the starter system of your saw. The "click" on the brake to make the saw safe on the lanyard takes no time to do and doesnt require the addtional effort to get it clicked back to cut again.

I run a 15inch bar on my 020 when bringing down bigger trees, I can think of at least two occations when the brake has operated on kickback. (thankfully)

That kind of thinking is why people dont wear seatbelts or motorcycle helmets. Your perfectly within your right to operate a saw in this way, but be careful not to pass such habits on to others.


Timber


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## treeman82 (Sep 20, 2003)

I won't use a saw without a chain brake. It's one of those "simple" safety features which I just won't do without. I say "simple" because when you are actually using the saw it doesn't take much to engage or disengage it as opposed to other safety measures. However mission # 1 is that everybody goes home at the end of the day with no injuries. Whatever it takes for that to happen is fine by me.


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## ramanujan (Sep 20, 2003)

> I TOTALLY AGREE chain brakes are necessary on ANY saw that is not a top-handled saw. My argument is that a Climbing Saw is designed differently and used specifically for a different purpose than any other saw. IMO, chain brakes are there to satisfy ins co and stop homeowners from hurting themselves.




While I agree that a arbo saw is designed differently and often used differently than typical saws I would argue that saw use in trees is just as or more prone to kickback as use on the ground. I think that most guys here have had their inertia brakes activate from kickback while in trees. I know I have.

How does the brake get in your way? Maneuvering between limbs? Causing the dawgs to be ineffective when making larger cuts? Snagging rope/twigs/bits of gear? I acknowledge these nuisances but they're no excuse to rip off the one thing on dangerous tool that makes it significantly safer.


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## TheTreeSpyder (Sep 20, 2003)

i use my 020's chain brake all the time. i set myself up to make cuts all around me sometimes, and especially engage the brake as the running saw whips by lines etc. to cut on the other side of me. When i one hand the running saw climbing, i might shove or pull the brake lever/actuator against a stick or under a log; as if my other hand was there for at least that purpose.

3 step rule sounds like a good start on the ground, sometimes i guess i engage it (especially larger bars) before taking a step or just pivoting quickly to the next cut.

i think the more power the saw has, the more it can take against ye. The longer the bar, the more leveraged that power can get further against you. The closer your hands, the less leverage of control over all that that you have. 

i think select fire is more proffessional, safer; the brake easy to use. Sometimes, could really argue that being comfy with it can be more produdctive. If noone is supposed to be around, you are watching and sure, and chain brake is on,off,on,off,on...... you can very confidentally whip around etc. IMLHO


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Sep 20, 2003)

Now that everyone has told you you are stupid for taking off the brake, I'm going to tell you that you are stupid for taking off the muffler screen.
You are stupid for taking off the muffler screen (I said I was going to tell you).
It keeps crap from getting into the motor. It does not improve saw performance to remove it, unless it gets clogged up, then just clean it. When you get crap in the motor all the time, it wears the cylinder walls and rings, this causes a loss of power, not a gain.


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## Stumper (Sep 21, 2003)

Removal of chainbreaks is one of my pet peeves. There was a time when a lot of "pros" did that and I was saddened that the meaning of pro had changed from 
professional-literally one who professes/claims expertise but generally indicative of a high level of competence
to 
pro- see idiot. 

Happily the pros on this board are mostly real experts with a high level of competence. Personally I'm not rabid about a functioning chainbrake (although I do find it useful occassionally per Spydy's explanation). I am insistent about having a handguard. Controlling kickback isn't a big issue for me on small saws but the handguard serves another purpose beside activating the brake-it keeps your hand from going into the chain if you get sloppy and don't wrap your thumb around the handlebar like you are supposed to. It also keeps alot of junk from stabbing you in the forward hand.
Sorry MB but you aren't appearing to be very bright.


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## TREETX (Sep 21, 2003)

I love the CB!!

I am thinking of getting an Ibuki to ride along with my zubat so I can leave the chainsaw on the ground........

The Zubat needs a chain brake. I was letting a friend use mine. When he came down nicked and bleeding, it occurred to me that sharing a Zubat is like sharing needles. 

Removing the chain brake is stupid. A bunch of guys from San Louis Potosi (Mexico) that were clearing cedar on the family ranch were using 026's with no chain brake and to top that off, they used bolt cutters to remove the rakers on their chains  

S-T-U-P-I-D

.02


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## MasterBlaster (Sep 21, 2003)

It's good to hear everyone likes their CB. Maybe when I wear out this 200 out, I'll leave that CB alone. Who knows?


RJS, so you liked my first 350 posts? Let me know if their are any points you would like me to re-interate.


I'm there for ya, bro.


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## NeTree (Sep 21, 2003)

Butch, sometimes the chain brake is a real PITA, but all things considered, I'd rather have it than not. I call it insurance. I've never taken the plunge either, but it's sure good to know that I'm tied in.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Sep 21, 2003)

When is it a PITA?


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## SilverBlue (Sep 21, 2003)

I personally needed the chain brake several times while on the job the past few days, and the chain stop saved the goodies a few times as well. Glad mine works and never will tamper with it.


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## Greg (Sep 22, 2003)

When I do pine removals where you take 2 steps up, cut, 2 more steps, cut. It is nice to leave the saw running (WITH THE BRAKE ON), but I wouldn't think of it without a break.
Some of the necks around here will take the break off of a brand new saw (you can do a better flush cut that way). When I start to rag on someone for this they will usually say it broke off. How in the he!! did it break off???BS you took it off.
Gimme a break man!!! 
Greg


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## timberfell (Sep 22, 2003)

I don't own a tophandled saw as I climb with a 346 and zubat combo. I do use the chian brake constantly when climbing and while on the ground, and feel that it's cheap insurance. I was taught to ALWAYS start a saw with the CB on and ALWAYS engage it when taking 3 or more steps on the ground. I would be a nervous wreck working in a tree with a saw that doens't have a functioning CB. I also don't think that hanging a running saw on your lanyard is a good idea even if the CB is on, but to each his own.


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## Lumberjack (Sep 22, 2003)

My saws have a CB but I hardly ever use them. When I cut through a limb I just cut the saw off. I dont drop start them either. I have left them in place, but I have never had it activate (never had a bad kickback). Most of the time when it activates is when it gets bumped by brush, but it may one day help. To each his own.

Carl


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## Tom Dunlap (Sep 22, 2003)

Do as you please, take off the CB. 

Do you have employees or do you supervise employees if you are a sub?

Tom


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## Matt Follett (Sep 22, 2003)

I got to thinking on this thread, is in not law in the States (or some) to have a functioning CB??? Here (Ontario) it is, for commercial purposes, Homeowners don't need a CB, but to use a saw for profit, it must be functional. The Health and Safety act also states the the saw must be 'in a good state of repair' and 'be properly tuned so that the chain stops when at idle' or something to that effect.


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## Stumper (Sep 22, 2003)

Matt, Rules rules rules. Isn't that dandy that the government has a rule that the saw must be properly adjusted? There must not be any repeat business for saw mechanics. After all it was properly adjusted when the owner started work and it just can't ever go out of adjustment or he'll be breaking the law that very second. WOW, Canadian shops have to be GOOD! As for making a profit...... I ain't never seed one 'a dem.
I'm not picking on you personally Matt. I do agree that safety equipment should remain in place and saws should be properly adjusted. I just think it ridiculous that Big Brother thinks he has to mandate it. Let stupid people remove themselves from the gene pool post haste via their own folly.


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## Matt Follett (Sep 22, 2003)

I do agree that at times law and rules can become overbearing... but I think in this case it does put some onis on the saw owner (company owner) to maintain equipment, because if there was an accident and a faulty saw was partially to blame... 

As that owner, it can be nerve wracking once and a while, but it keeps our saws running well. I don't know if there has ever been a case in which action was launched, perhaps, but I'm not sure.

Besides these are things that should be done anyway and probably our saws last longer this way... 

I'm also not saying that everybody abides by these rules, not everybody wears their seat belt, and I've seen some scary saws out there


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## treeman82 (Sep 22, 2003)

I know that when I was in the tech center back in high school, they had a bunch of saws which were without chain brakes. Those saws also hadn't seen use in several years, or were being replaced QUICKLY. They would not let anybody use a saw that didn't have a properly functioning chain brake.


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## TREETX (Sep 23, 2003)

*Top Handled chain brake*

I remember a while back on some chainsaw site seeing a chainbrake for a 020T that was a sort of bar/cuff that would hit the right wrist if being used one handed or one hand on top, one on side.

.02


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## NeTree (Sep 23, 2003)

> _Originally posted by TreeCo _
> *lumberJack wrote:
> 
> "I dont drop start them either."
> ...



FYI: ANSI specifically allows for drop-starting in certain circumstances.


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## Newfie (Sep 23, 2003)

*"Let stupid people remove themselves from the gene pool post haste via their own folly."* 


Wouldn't that be nice. Too bad the stupid ones seem to be the most prolific breeders and usually leave a herd of dependents to put on the government dole.


I was thinking of taking off the chainbrake, the bar cover, the front handle and any other extra pieces I could find. Who needs to carry around all that extra weight?


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## Stumper (Sep 23, 2003)

Newfie, You are, unfortunately, so very right. It terrifies me when I contemplate the birth rate of pupid steople compared to intelligent souls. Another reason that "welfare" is evil-it actually has encouraged the stupid to breed. They would have done so anyway but......


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## Lumberjack (Sep 24, 2003)

On my climbing saw I pull the cord, not drop the head. On my ground saws (044) I do the same with the 20" bar, but with the 28 and 36" bar if you drop start them then the tip of the bar will hit the ground. So on those I normally do it like they show in the book, foot through back handle and push down on the d handle. I like having the CB's but like I said they have never activated from Kickback and normally I don't engage them. I leave them in place though, because on day they may save my face. Also if you have never used them in 27 years like MasterBlaster, then a device like that could be a saftey hazard, like when he is trying to peel cut and the CB hits the trunk stopping the chain in the cut sending the limb the wrong way. This is my opinion, I like them, but if someone doesn't then don't work beside them, but also don't ride them like a whore about it, that is there choice and in America we have that, so yes he takes them off, we disagree, some more than others, but there is no point in wishing the ignorant to remove from the gene pool, educate them. In our opinion MasterBlaster is being stupid, not ignorant. Stupid is when you do something and you know better, ignorant is not knowing any better.

Carl


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## Guy Meilleur (Sep 24, 2003)

If my CB fell off my 200T I wouldn't replace it. I never use it and have never needed it; leaving a saw running between cuts is just more noise and pollution going into my body, no thanks.  It does get in the way but I'd feel wierd about taking it off. The "whatifs" would be distracting.

If it was off, no, Tom, I wouldn't show others it was the "right" tool to use.

I'm 100% with using handaw and polesaw for most cuts and leaving the chainsaw for big cuts only. Polesaw allows much leverage; 6" cuts not hard to do clean if you get in the right position.


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## Stumper (Sep 24, 2003)

Okay LJ, Please reread my posts. Stupid was the word I used not ignorant. it was a strong statement for effect. My point is that no longterm good comes from an overweaning government trying to protect us from ourselves. For the record, I do not wish MB any harm at all.-Though I do wish he'd leave his Chain brakes operational for his own sake, that choice is HIS-not some bureaucrat's.:angel:


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## murphy4trees (Sep 24, 2003)

The true meaning of anarchy is a system where the people act in such a way that enforcement is not needed... They take care of themselves... So far, no licensure in Pa. for arborists... that could change if the beaurocrats see an opening. Licensure is primarily about revenue generation and only secondarily about protecting the public... A local township around here requires building permits for residential fencing... What's next... got to get a permit to plant some tulip???
So as an industry self-empowerment works... Learning the details of the DOS AND DONTS here and elsewhere has been great for me... How about you?


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## Matt Follett (Sep 24, 2003)

Daniel

My rebutal for the government issue is , you and I and our fellow professionals are here and other places, learning and conversing.

However many people/companies do not educate; rules and regs help (if only somewhat) to ensure that the 17 year old kid working for the absentee/doesn't care boss, doesn't cut his face or legs up with a chainsaw the second day on the job. Sure there will still be some scary things out there, but with 'the man' in the back of their minds hopefully they will at least think about training and safety for employees


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## Crofter (Sep 24, 2003)

*Yes We Need All The Laws*

Common sense doesn't cut it. If there were not laws demanding safety regulations a large number of employers wouldnt enforce them. It is only the knowledge that they are legally liable that makes them work. Some people do have the presence of mind and good fortune to remain unscathed despite ignoring safety regulations; many others would be in trouble pretty quick though.
Some people make a career out of resenting and defying any forml of authority, even if they know it is for the general good. I wonder why.

Frank


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## caryr (Sep 24, 2003)




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## Burnham (Sep 25, 2003)

RockyJSquirrel, you said:

Most government employees are perfect examples of people who work in such a protected environment. I'd rather shoot myself than live like that.

I say BS  .


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## Crofter (Sep 25, 2003)

Rocky says he'd rather shoot himself than work like that, also that he did it for two years; fortunately he's not too fast with a gun eh? You guys are worse than I am for trying to get a row going! LoL! 
With the government or any highly structured organisation, there are just so many arses to cover and so much potential shoot to pay if something goes wrong that this becomes the order of the day. They do have an excellent safety record though.

Frank


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## MasterBlaster (Sep 25, 2003)

Hey! What happened to my thread? Has it been hijacked by polly-tic-ers?

Remember?

Chain brakes SUCK on T/H saws!

Should be an option, like mc helmet laws.

And I would decline the option.

Tankuberrymuch!


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## oldugly (Sep 25, 2003)

Government jobs...
I see Rocky's point, I do believe, however that not all government jobs are the same. As a young man I worked for the forestry department, and we busted our butts from the time we got to the job to the time we left...{of course not everyone did, but then that is the way with just about every job I have ever had.}
CB. There is only one reason I could see to remove a chain brake, and that is to make it easier to one-hand cut with a saw. I prefer two, so of course I prefer leaving my chain brake in tact.
Welfare overpopulation...
Of course idiots overpopulate society...common sense is anything but ... "Common".


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## Crofter (Sep 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by MasterBlaster _
> *Hey! What happened to my thread? Has it been hijacked by polly-tic-ers?
> 
> Remember?
> ...



MasterBlater, to get back on your topic; If you were an employer do you think it would be a good idea to outfit your employees with saws equipped with operational chain brakes?

You seem to be having a hard time selling your position to either the Wood-tics or to the Poly-tic-ers.

Frank


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## MasterBlaster (Sep 26, 2003)

Actually, I'm not trying to sell anybody on anything. I was merely curious if anyone else does what I do. The OSHA police on this board reacted exactly as I expected them to. I was suprised at the personal attacks on me. Thats cyber-space, I guess. Tiny people can appear bigger than in real life. No biggie.
If yur sacred to death of yur chain saw, the CB will probably ease your fearfull mind.
If yur scared, say yur scared.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Sep 26, 2003)

Hey Butch, do you not buckle your kids seatbelts when you you go for a car ride, or are you a big chicken?  

This topic is not about being afraid. This is about common sense, and more importantly, proper tree care. Most of us are here to have some fun, but also to advance ourselves and the industry.

Safety devices on a saw go hand in hand with personal protective gear, do you wear any of that? I don't imagine you do, it would make youy look like a sissy. That hurts you because the public percieves you as a hack, seeing you work unprotected.

I have read most of your posts and they seem to have a common theme, that you do tree work like a bull runs through a china shop. 

The internet does allow others to anonomously speak their mind, which I think is good at times. They don't have to be afraid that you'll step on their head for telling you what, perhaps, you should be hearing more often.


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## Guy Meilleur (Sep 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by MasterBlaster _
> * Tiny people can appear bigger than in real life. No biggie.
> If yur scared, say yur scared.  *


Butch I was about the only one who semiagreed with you, saying I'd personally rather not have a cb on my 200T. But calling those who want to leave theirs on for reasons of safety or setting a good example to the less proficient "scared" and calling on them to confess their fears is pretty extreme.:alien:

Plenty of ways to demonstrate fearlessness; I'm reminded of the colleague on the utility crew who refused to take time to read the label on the Tordon bottle before using the stuff, and called me an anti-production ***** for doing so. He bragged that he'd drink the stuff. I quit that job after two weeks; later heard he'd gone from foreman to supervisor. The guy knew NOTHING about trees then and probably not now.

Show your macho any way you want, mb, but don't dis those who take a different approach to proving themselves.


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## TheTreeSpyder (Sep 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by MasterBlaster _
> * Tiny people can appear bigger than in real life. *


 




i run my saw with the intensity, power and reverance of a laser; once put in command of the power, i handle it responsibly. Select fire. Bzzzzzzzzzz click turn click Bzzzzzzzzzclick, making each run potent, using the brake asif it was part of me, or the saw; doesn't matter as saw eliminates anything around me as an extension of me. Bzzzzzzzzzzzz. click. gone.


So, now




Maybe i am 


the 




Mass'rBlaster!!!!

Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz click!


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## MasterBlaster (Sep 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Guy Meilleur _
> *
> 
> Show your macho any way you want, mb, but don't dis those who take a different approach to proving themselves. *




My point exactly!


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## John Paul Sanborn (Sep 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by murphy4trees _
> *Gotta move the chainsaw to the left side.... *



That's how I started out, but I found that with keeping sharp cutters the chain would,pick the dickens out of my lanyard.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Sep 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Stumper _
> * Let stupid people remove themselves from the gene pool post haste via their own folly. *



To add to what Matt said, these laws are out there to protect workers from idiot employers. I don't know about up there, but OSHA standards do not apply to a sole proprietor/sole employee operation.

You and I can be as stupid as we want, untill we get one person working for us.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Sep 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by MasterBlaster _
> *
> Chain brakes SUCK on T/H saws!
> 
> ...



I thought that that part was worn out. The CB is there for a critical situation that rarely happens on the individual level, but can prevent catastrofic injury if that event does occure.


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## Guy Meilleur (Sep 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by John Paul Sanborn _
> *OSHA standards do not apply to a sole proprietor/sole employee operation. You and I can be as stupid as we want, untill we get one person working for us. *


 Amen and Hallelujah! Some regs don't fit some people, and that's fine--I rarely wear hardhats, Butch takes off his cb, etc. But aside from employees, us renegades might think about the image we portray to clients and the public. We dis ourselves and the profession when we take a lot of careless shortcuts, or demean colleagues who hold different standards than ours.; not the way to more $ and more respect.


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## TheTreeSpyder (Sep 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by John Paul Sanborn _
> *That's how I started out, but I found that with keeping sharp cutters the chain would,pick the dickens out of my lanyard. *



Soooooooo, i putt the lanyard on right to throw lanyard left with right hand, and keep it from saw. i keep lanyard, handsaw, slings on R. Chainsaw, spare krabs, rescue pulleys on L. Lanyard slack to the rear. Only short hanging stuff (higher than saw) on L, nothing long/low haning(except chain saw) or synthetic. Handsaw extends reach, and is on reaching hand. Am R. handed, i like friction hitch that serves up to the R.

Really like Sherrill's aluminum snap on lanyard, VT tied straight to D, with lanyard lacing through D, to form D as 1 hand adjuster/tender, and save bridge, weight and gear of extra link hitching adjustment device to saddle with krab, clevis etc..


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## TREETX (Sep 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kneejerk Bombas _
> *
> I have read most of your posts and they seem to have a common theme, that you do tree work like a bull runs through a china shop.
> *



LMAO


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## Burnham (Sep 26, 2003)

I see MB's point about his thread having gone astray, but I'll reply to Rocky's query to me anyway  . 

What aggravates me about your attitude, RJS, is that you paint every one who works for a governmental agency with the same brush based on your one work experience. That is way too stupid for someone as intelligent as yourself. For you to believe that every govt. job is ultra-structured and snail paced shows me you don't know a thing about the vast majority of the work done by me and my co-workers here in the US Forest Service. 

You yourself called my work "fasinating" in a thread a ways back over on that other board...in the past two weeks I have climbed whitebark pine for cone collections at timberline on Mt. Hood, picked Noble Fir cones in a seed orchard here on my district from trees that I personally planted 17 years ago, installed antennae and solar panels in trees for a temporary repeater installation to give coverage in a previously dead radio reception area, and this is just the tree climbing stuff. You see, I work in a far wider arena than that. Nothing could be farther from the truth than to call this work structured or slow.

I have come to work at 0630, gone home after 1630 and given taxpayers a full measure for their dollar. Back when timber was king (some dark days there) I ran reforestation crews: get up at 3 am, load 12,000 seedlings by hand out of a cooler with water dripping down my neck, drive out into the dark to get to the unit by daylight, spend days without end out in rain and cold digging in the mud, gone home after 6pm once the unplanted seedling are loaded back into the cooler, once the days' paperwork is done, once the plans are made for tomorrow. This is hard, grinding work that ruins your joints and back, and I know every day that I did it for 20 springs. To show for it I can look at beautiful stands of healthy growing trees, a fair wage earned, and no more. Large portions of the public don't have a clue what it takes to do this, and much the same can be said for several of my supervisors. 

My work is largely self-directed, and is never the same from one day to the next. I work hard, I like my job, and I am in the same boat as you in that I'll never get rich doing what I love to do. 

Many of my co-workers come to work with the same ethic as I do...not all, just like in your private sector work. Govt. employees are not some anonymous group of "them". We are members of your communities, parents of the kids in your kids' school, shopping in your businesses, purchasing your services, paying taxes just like you do. We are just like you. A basic level of respect is not so much to ask, is it?

Rocky, I remember with thanks the email you sent me with support after I was flamed pretty hard on my initial posts over on BBoard. I thank you again for that. I think of you as a good guy, even when you are giving what seems to me to be unnecessary grief to others. No hard feelings here.


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## MasterBlaster (Sep 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kneejerk Bombas _
> *
> 
> I have read most of your posts and they seem to have a common theme, that you do tree work like a bull runs through a china shop. *




What have I posted that leads you to that conclusion? I don't tear up squat. But feel free to interpret my words as you choose.

I love it! I say I don't use a CB, and everyone automatically heaps all these other bad attributes on me. LMAO!

Maybe thats why I am the highest paid climber in central LA. No brag, just fact. Maybe thats why I have zero damage, and zero injurys. Maybe thats why I'm usually home by noon, while my other climber friends work thru the afternoon for less money.

Did I say zero damage? Zero injury? Oh, yea, I guess I did.

I started this thread as a half-troll to see what kind of reactions I could elicit from me being truthfull to all of you out there. I didn't tell anyone to do what I do, I just told you my opinion of a CB.

You guys crack me up.


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## Burnham (Sep 26, 2003)

Here is some of that mind numbing govt. work  . Sorry for the incorrect date on the photo...dead batteries, needed to reset that function, was taken last week.


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## MasterBlaster (Sep 26, 2003)

Like I said, interpret my words to suit your own agenda.


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## TREETX (Sep 26, 2003)

Yeah, agenda......

I just call them as I see them.................

Take care, stay safe - Nate


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## Guy Meilleur (Sep 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by MasterBlaster _
> * interpret my words to suit your own agenda. *


My agenda is truth and sanity so I'm left with no choice but to ignore all this guff from someone who's caught spreading bs (nice quotes, jps), then turns tail. If you are king of LA why'd you call about travel to VA to chase Izzy...5 days after? 

I agree with you about cb's, and am willing to defend to the death your right to not use one. But your blind lashback above after getting the predictable response from your semi-troll shows one thing: Rocky was right, your fuse is shorter than his, which makes it invisible. Refusing to read (nice quote, treetx) shows that the brain may be a couple cans short of a six-pack. Kind of makes you wonder about...


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Sep 26, 2003)

Boy, you guys really tore him apart!

Do me now!


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## MasterBlaster (Sep 26, 2003)

> _ If you are king of LA why'd you call about travel to VA to chase Izzy...5 days after? [/B]_


_


_


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## Guy Meilleur (Sep 26, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Kneejerk Bombas _
> *Boy, you guys really tore him apart! Do me now! *


Been done already, but not by me and not fairly. Your ideas, like "any time a plant loses tissue it's stressful and bad", are sometimes whacky, as some of mine sometimes are. But you're talking from your heart and your brain, not the nether regions; no one can tear you apart for that.
You can come out of the basement now, it's time for dinner.


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## TheTreeSpyder (Sep 26, 2003)

Should all trainees without helmuts be banned without exception?


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## TREETX (Sep 26, 2003)

There is always room for an exception to the rule....


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## Burnham (Sep 26, 2003)

Just needs some remedial lessons, Spydy. She'll work out, I'm sure. Don't give up  .


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## John Paul Sanborn (Sep 26, 2003)

Is she taller the you are Kenny?


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## TheTreeSpyder (Sep 26, 2003)

Mmmmmmmmmm Does it matter?:blob4:


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## Curtis James (Oct 3, 2003)

The first thing that pops into my head is the insurance guy asking the question," why did you remove the safety feature on your saw?" there is no way it hinders your productivity or comfort that much that you should risk an uninsurable insident!


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## Dan F (Oct 3, 2003)

> _Originally posted by MasterBlaster _
> *
> If yur scared, say yur scared.  *


I'll say it: I'm scared to death of my saw. Know why? 'Cause I know what it can do in that momentary lapse of attention. *IF* you could devote *ABSOLUTELY* 110% of your attention to what your saw is doing, 110% of the time, then, yeah, take your CB off. But something tells me you are thinking other thoughts while running the saw. I do it too, I'll admit it. You are hanging in a tree. You are probably thinking something about having to climb further up or descend down for your next cut. You ought to be thinking about where the groundies are too, right? Hmmmmm, what happens when the tip of the saw catches another branch when you glance to make sure no one is under you???? Betcha wish you'd left on the CB then...

Will the CB protect you all the time? Nope, it's a tool, and tools break. Should you rely on it entirely? Nope. But it's the best chance you've got. And if you take it off, eventually you will get a new nickname: Burgerface. Or Burgernose. Or perhaps more appropriately, either IDIOT or just plain STUPID. 

My $.015 worth. 


Dan


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## xander9727 (Oct 3, 2003)

Don't hold back Dan......Tell him how you really feel!


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## rdooms (Oct 3, 2003)

*no chain breaks*

well im a rookie arborist and ive only been using chainsaws since i was 12 thats 22 years and i would have to say " that is one of the stupidest things ive everheard and i thought that i would get good knowledge from the people on this site Geuss i can count you out" your nuts and i cant believe you would even post something this obsurd . hope in the future you keep this kind of advice to yourself......


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## mikecross23 (Oct 3, 2003)

Good thread Master Blaster. No chain break? Mine are all intact and will stay that way, but I sure did get a kick out of all the bitterness in this thread!!! 

-Mike-


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## Dan F (Oct 3, 2003)

Like I said, I'm scared of my saw, but if I didn't make it clear, I also respect it for what it is and can do. I don't let that fear paralyze me though. I use it for what it was meant to be used for, all the while giving it the utmost respect. The second that respect goes away is the second it bites. Hard. 

It's not like I've been running a saw for just a couple of days or months either. I've been running a saw for well over 10 years, not on a daily basis though, but frequently enough. I'm 24 now (I know, I know, I'm still young, but my 5 month-old makes me feel a LOT older at times. Probably just gonna get worse, right?), and I believe Dad gave me my first saw lesson when I was in the nieghborhood of 10 years old. I was big for my age, but the Jonsenreds 630 was (and still is) a mighty big saw. I learned respect for that saw (and all others) at a young age. 

I'll also admit that I don't use the CB probably as frequently as I should. Perhaps that comes from my little Poulan without a CB (it does have a hand gaurd though). I've cut a lot of wood with that little green machine and I've always had to pay extra special attention to what I was doing. The brand notwithstanding, I wouldn't DREAM of taking that saw up in a tree because of the lack of a CB. 

Maybe my respect for machinery and equipment comes from an upbringing that taught me that from the get-go. It never hurts the respect for that equipment when you see your grandfather's left hand with only a two nubs where the four fingers were and a nub for the thumb.... Got it caught in a corn picker many years ago..... 

I know it was another thread entirely, but as to the cost of books, MB, you don't have a leg to stand on.... I will agree completely with what Nate said about the cost of books in college. $84 is NOT expensive. ONE book (out of about 4 for the class) cost me $150 about 4-5 years ago (_Time Saver Standards for Landscape Architecture_). Was it worth it? Yes, I still use it. Harrison Flint's book, _Landscape Plants for Eastern North America_, cost me about $95. I still use it. I didn't have to buy it, but I bought Dirr's book, _Manual of Woody Landscape Plants_, used for about $45. I use it too. I'd hate to think about the amount of money I spent on books over the four years I was at Purdue. That is just part of getting an education though. 

But then again (this is a cheap shot, I know, I probably shouldn't take it, but after all of the comments I've seen from MB so far, I will), I do know how to read a book....


Dan


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## Husky372 (Oct 3, 2003)

i have been cruising this site for about a week now and never posted anything but i have to say the comment on addmitting your fear is just macho bull having fear and still doing somthing means you have courage having no fear means your not smart enough to fear somthing just my humble opinion. i most definatly respect a saw and i aint no *****.one other thing goverment regs came about becuase to many people were getting hurt i feel they help to an extent.


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## MasterBlaster (Oct 4, 2003)

> _Originally posted by mikecross23 _
> *Good thread Master Blaster. No chain break? Mine are all intact and will stay that way, but I sure did get a kick out of all the bitterness in this thread!!!
> 
> -Mike- *



Me, too. I express my opinion and all the junior OSHA inspectors come out of the closet.
For those one or two who responded civilly and with concern, I thank you for your imput. For the majority that was unnecessarlly rude and obnoxious, you can all bite me.


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## NeTree (Oct 4, 2003)

> _Originally posted by MasterBlaster _
> *you can all bite me. *



But have they had their shots?


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## MasterBlaster (Oct 4, 2003)

Yea, lets get 7 more pages!


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## TheTreeSpyder (Oct 4, 2003)

i think.........

It is a better sign of dynamic wealth of contribution and purpose here for forestry/biology/physics etc. students to get more introspect from this site than socioligy/psychology/anger management etc. students. 

True, as a community of folks the latter is inescapable, but hopefully we'd be here for higher level student's education on any front, so wee don't have to make it so easy for 'em(socioligy/psychology/anger management etc. students); so they would have to exercise and expand reaching to see these things (of their lessons).......

Orrrrrrrrr something like that!
:alien: :alien:


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## Stumper (Oct 4, 2003)

We won't bite-we have our chainbrakes in place!


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## TheTreeSpyder (Oct 4, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Dan F _
> *I'll say it: I'm scared to death of my saw. Know why? 'Cause I know what it can do in that momentary lapse of attention......
> 
> Dan *



_Know Fear & Let KnowLedge Replace it! But, Maintain Your Respect!_

Acknowledge rightful fear of such ripping, shearing, instantaneous power so close;

Let knowledge and command actions tame that beast that is bigger, more pwerful, hungry than thee;

But never let your guard down, and always stay wary.

For me that means maintianing the provided power to instantly disarm beast, and carry/ move it muzzled. Only allowing it's ferocity to feed in the direction and time i command, to the task of my bidding. Then muzzle it to civility immedieately with no free breaths, tough life; don't be reborne as one of my saws!!!




> _Originally posted by Spyder _*
> 
> .....A voraciously, hungry beast behind the metal who's insatiable hunger you ab-use by sliding gruel you want .......'cut'.....For a hand is a candied treat compared to the dry crumbleys you force it to be satisfied with; while every day it drools for sweet blood & meat as any other BEAST! As any powerful, proud animal sits eyeing you it's temporary captor, waiting for you to drop your guard and get within it’s reaches.
> 
> ...



Orrrrrrrrrrrrr Something like that!


:alien:


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## MasterBlaster (Oct 31, 2003)

*Since tonight is Halloween...*

I thought I'd post a scarey picture.

WARNING! Not for the faint-hearted!


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## rahtreelimbs (Oct 31, 2003)

Looks like something from the 1960's with no chainbrake.


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## MasterBlaster (Oct 31, 2003)

Look again. The chainbrakes there. Slightly modified.


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## rahtreelimbs (Oct 31, 2003)

Fools tool!!!


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## MasterBlaster (Oct 31, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Rich Hoffman _
> *Fools tool!!! *



Can you say that fast 10 times?


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## Stumper (Oct 31, 2003)

Shame on you! Hotsaw indeed. You take that back to its owner right now Butch and don't you ever steal again!


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## MasterBlaster (Oct 31, 2003)

Well, they don't have chain brakes, and nobody jumps on them!  
I can click that brake on in a sec! Just for manuevering it in close quarters.

This is MY baby!


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## geofore (Oct 31, 2003)

*chain*

You always leave your chain that loose, now that's scary. I could see a little daylight getting through if that were a different tip on the bar but with that tip you might want to keep that chain a little tighter to cut down on wear.


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## MasterBlaster (Oct 31, 2003)

Yeah, it needs adjusting.


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## Groundman (Nov 2, 2003)

I can still hear you saying you would never brake the chain.


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## MasterBlaster (Nov 5, 2003)

Fleetwood Mac?  

Rumors?


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## MasterBlaster (May 28, 2004)

As long as we're bumping old threads 2nite...

I just wanted to say that I leave the chainbrake on my TH saws nowadays. Ya'll's outcry made me stop and reconsider my opinion on the matter.

I still like my TH hitch, though. But I have gone over to a splittail to maintain the original length of my climbing line.

Not too old of a dawg....

Not yet!


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## SilverBlue (May 28, 2004)

Well if you ever change back again Butch, save me the brake parts


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## Matt Follett (May 28, 2004)

Congrats on the Brake MB....

Wow alots happened around here since this post eh?

Almost feel bad about the way I jumped on you, heh but then it worked 

I must say (in a shiny happy people sort of way) this site is great, we all get to learn and ponder and think about what we're doing and maybe we've prevented a few injuries and saved afew trees along the way!


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## NeTree (May 28, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Matt Follett _
> *I must say (in a shiny happy people sort of way) this site is great, we all get to learn and ponder and think about what we're doing and maybe we've prevented a few injuries and saved afew trees along the way! *




I'll drink to that!


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## MasterBlaster (May 28, 2004)

Now I hafta get used to my 090G without a CB. 

Maybe a visegrip plyer.




I'm still waiting on it, though.


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## John Paul Sanborn (May 29, 2004)

Now if we could only quit slapping people down that we don't like....


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## SteveBullman (May 29, 2004)

this has been a very interesting thread, i still cant get my head round how a cb gets in the way. or at least enough to warrant removing it.
i'm thinking about removing my chaincatcher on my 020. It gets in the way when i want my chain to fly off and wrap round my forearm


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## MasterBlaster (May 29, 2004)

I was just weaned on saws without a cb. And the cb DOES get in the way, it's just something you have to get used to.

I'm curious, what am I supposed to do with my 090G? Not run it because it was made w/o a cb?


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## SteveBullman (May 29, 2004)

the only thing i see it getting in the way of is you taking your own head off


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## MasterBlaster (May 29, 2004)

*I agree*

I wish it DID have a cb! 

I wuz serious about the visegrip plyers!


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## Kneejerk Bombas (May 29, 2004)

> _Originally posted by stephenbullman _
> *this has been a very interesting thread, i still cant get my head round how a cb gets in the way. or at least enough to warrant removing it.
> i'm thinking about removing my chaincatcher on my 020. It gets in the way when i want my chain to fly off and wrap round my forearm *



Steve,
You should put that part back on, it's for safety.

MB, 
The 090G if I recall correctly, is a gear reduction saw that probably has much less kick-back potential than newer saws because of it's low chain speed. Not to mention, running an old saw that never had a chain brake is very different than taking off a perfectly good chain brake.


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## MasterBlaster (May 29, 2004)

Cool. Now If I could just get a sprocket.


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## BigJohn (May 29, 2004)

I'm jumping in here a little late but I think we should keep the chain brakes. I don't see them getting in my way at all. I have nicked the tip more than a few times and them try to kick back and I was always ready for it. But perhaps one I may not and maybe the brake will save me. 

I got my first climbing saw when I was 14 for my birthday. The first thing I went to do was remove the chain brake just like dad. That didn't go over well he made me put it back on and it been there ever since and never saw the need to take one off. 

Join the crowd Butch we're no less a man with the brake on. If the handle should brake buy a new one when you get a chance. I wouldn't suggest removing one that is perfectly fine.


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## NeTree (May 29, 2004)

> _Originally posted by BigJohn _
> *we're no less a man with the brake on. *




But...


You could be alot LESS MAN without one...

eh?


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## BigJohn (May 29, 2004)

Yeah you certainly could be less of man in many ways if you get bit. I have worked with a guy who cut his nose off with a kickback.


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## Proarbor (May 29, 2004)

> _Originally posted by MasterBlaster _
> *I was just weaned on saws without a cb. And the cb DOES get in the way, it's just something you have to get used to.
> 
> I'm curious, what am I supposed to do with my 090G? Not run it because it was made w/o a cb? *



Down here in the land of oz unfortunately that is the case. There are a whole lot of 090's laying around doing bugger all because OHS&W say thats how it's got to be. Dont the rule books suck mb ?


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## rahtreelimbs (May 29, 2004)

While I am a bigtime time user and advocate of chainbrakes, I believe that MB has garnered his fair share of credibility on AS to make decisions that work best for him. I don't agree with him, but if that is his choice I respect him for that.


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## ray benson (May 29, 2004)

Proarbor- you should be able to pick up the 090's cheap if they can't be used.Then sell them on E-bay.
Ray


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## Proarbor (May 29, 2004)

I think that might be a plan Ray. thanks


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## SteveBullman (May 30, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Mike Maas _
> *Steve,
> You should put that part back on, it's for safety.
> 
> ...


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## Kneejerk Bombas (May 30, 2004)

> _Originally posted by stephenbullman _
> *
> 
> 
> ...


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## Guy Meilleur (May 30, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Mike Maas _
> *That was my attempt at sarcasm steve. *


All of which shows that sarcasm does not get conveyed well online; best saved for other chat.


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## SteveBullman (May 30, 2004)

i aplogize, just that my wifes american, i work with an american, and neither of them seem to pick upon when im being sarcastic.
you threw me off guard there mike, hats off to ya
hehe


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## John Paul Sanborn (May 30, 2004)

> _Originally posted by stephenbullman _
> *i aplogize, just that my wifes american, i work with an american, and neither of them seem to pick upon when im being sarcastic.
> you threw me off guard there mike, hats off to ya
> hehe *



That's because of you're stiff upper lip, you gotta learn to smirk when you say it


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## Nickrosis (May 30, 2004)

And a smirk in real life equates to a huge cheesy smile online.


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## John Stewart (Nov 9, 2004)

Bump!


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## Al Smith (Nov 9, 2004)

*Interesting thread*

I stumbled accross this,and wonderered how many more miles it could get.


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## MasterBlaster (Nov 9, 2004)

*Re: I believe*



> _Originally posted by RockyJSquirrel _
> *This post proves you are even dumber than I already thought. I've endured your last 100 posts where you have said practically nothing, but at least you weren't advocating such stupid ideas.
> 
> Maybe it might be time for you to take a break on your keyboard (unless you actually have something to add) and maybe do some reading instead.
> ...




I _love_ this post!


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## xander9727 (Nov 9, 2004)

And why wouldn't you.


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## MasterBlaster (Nov 9, 2004)

I _luv_ saying practically nothing!


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## Florida16 (Nov 9, 2004)

I luv that you luv to say practically nothing...


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## Stumper (Nov 10, 2004)

Feel the love. 


Get your hand off my butt!


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## Nickrosis (Nov 10, 2004)

The thread that ixnayed Xander and put him on The List.


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## TimberMcPherson (Nov 10, 2004)

Good on you Butch on the CB on the 020, takes guts to make that kinda move, I take my helmet off to ya.


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## DDM (Oct 9, 2005)

This is a great thread!


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## Chucky (Oct 9, 2005)

DDM said:


> This is a great thread!



But yeah, DDM, a ROCKING thread. And for those who happened to miss RockyJSquirrel's thread about "gummint" workers, I happened to have saved the precious gem for posterity:

"Government employees, for the most part, are morons who leech off of society under the guise of "public servant". Fact is, most are too stupid to make it in the private sector and put in their time at a gummint job mostly for the security of a job for life with great benefits and little chance of being fired, no matter how inept they might be. 

Some people are able to schmooze these morons in order to avoid the difficulties these idiots can easily create with a single piece of paper. Right and wrong mean nothing, the only important thing is making sure everyone locksteps in time and follows all the stupid rules mandated by other morons who have no working knowledge of the industries they regulate. 

So find the right person in your office to sweet-talk the moron until he 
goes away, then you can go back to the business of running a business."

-RockyJSquirrel


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## spacemule (Oct 9, 2005)

MasterBlaster was just trolling here, I think that's obvious. . .


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## Chucky (Oct 10, 2005)

Yes, MB probably was "trolling" to elicit a response. But unlike many trollers I think MB was ernest in his beliefs, unlike most trolls who will post any kind of BS to prompt a response.


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## Thor's Hammer (Oct 10, 2005)

MB's latest 200 has a chainbrake. but it was very common in the past for a lot of old schoolers to take them off. 
NO, butch was not just trolling, I've seen the pics of his brakeless saw. ( but he probably knew he'd get a good reaction)


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## a_lopa (Oct 10, 2005)

that was a good post by rocky


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## spacemule (Oct 10, 2005)

The reason I say he was trolling was because he said he was "half trolling" when speaking about this thread, Thor.


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