# TCI article needs logic please!!



## TREETX (Jul 23, 2003)

pg 49

*Hispanic workers*



> Alone with the huge growth in the number of spanish speaking workers in the tree care industry, there has been a large increase in the number of injuries and deaths among the non-english speaking work force.




We really need to look at how we interpret statistics.

I bet if the work force was increasingly getting to be more blonde haired and blue eyed, you would have an increase in deaths/injuries among blond haired blue eyed workers.

Duh,!!! If more hispanics are working, they will also represent their fair share of injury/death statistics.

The article would be better worded just simply stating that the work force is getting increasingly more spanish speaking so warnings and manuals should also be in spanish.


If you need a warning label to tell you that chippers are dangerous and it is dangerous to feed a chipper with your feet, you need more help than a label can provide in any language.

Complacency kills.


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## geofore (Jul 23, 2003)

*warnings*

No matter the language, anybody trying something (chippers,saws, climbing) for the first time needs the warnings in BOLD print or to have it explained. You are good at what you do and make the job look easy and it is anything but easy, it is dangerous. These toys (tools) can bite.


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## njarbor (Jul 25, 2003)

that may be true but it is kind of hard to work with someone who doesnt speak any english . there were 3 that i needed to signal using hand signs becuase they didnt speak a word of english .ie sawing motion with my hands , tugging for a rope . it kind of bothers me because when i was starting out i couldnt get a job bacause there were too many hispanics working for them they said


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## NickfromWI (Jul 25, 2003)

But imagine being a spanish speaker and working with someone who doesn't speak any english. It's probably just as hard para los hispanohablantes. Hay que pensarlo de su perspectivo, tambien. Y despues, encontrar una sistema o forma de comunicaciOn para tener exito con tus co-trabajadores.

You gotta look at things from the other perspective and find a way to communicate with your co-workers so that you guys can be successful!

amor
nick


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## Tom Dunlap (Jul 25, 2003)

Ok, Nick, I'll play along 

What does this mean?

It's probably just as hard para los hispanohablantes. Hay que pensarlo
de su perspectivo, tambien. Y despues, encontrar una sistema o forma de
comunicaciOn para tener exito con tus co-trabajadores.

Tom


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## NickfromWI (Jul 25, 2003)

*woops. shoulda been more clear!*

The part in english underneath is a close translation of the spanish part.

"You gotta look at things from the other perspective and find a way to communicate with your co-workers so that you guys can be successful!"

If you get a new guy to the crew, there are a lot of things he or she has to learn. In this same way, you will have to teach a lot to someone who doesn't even know english. It will be hard for the new "white" guy, right? It will be hard for the spanish guy, too. I've seen spanish/english crews who work well together, and I've been on a few (but I guess it helps that I speak spanish, too). 

This subject brings up something I've promoted in my long  tree work career. It started when the foreman at The Care of Trees would holler something down for me to get for him, but due to the sound of the bucket, my ear plugs a chipper and maybe a chainsaw all at the same time, I often could not hear him. I think there should be a standardized language of hand signals for tree work. I'm sure a lot of people have come up with things that work when needed. I know the foreman, Norm, got frustrated with me a few times when I couldn't tell what he wanted. Hand signals would have prevented this.

love
nick


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## TREETX (Jul 26, 2003)

I think it is important to be able to express thoughts and ideas in more than one language or even w/out language.

You need to adapt to the hispanic labor force, not the other way around. They are the future of labor now, they are OUR future. Take a demographics class some day. We will be a generation of old white people being taken care of by a young hispanic generation. Especially in TX.

Embarassingly enough, I don't do spanish. I have a good work vocabulary though. When I first started working with hispanic crews, I had the same problem about waving and shaking my rope for things. I got over it, - learn the words for saw, rope, and colors. Pull is a good one too so is the question "ready?". My # 1 ground guy just plain knows what to do. 

Back to the article at hand, I was just mainly nit-picking at the POOR technical writing skills.


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## ok2climb (Jul 27, 2003)

I agree with alot of the things being said here as far as learning to communicate with our ever growing number of spainish workers, but it should also go both ways. We employ a large number of salvadorians as our ground crew and when we're working in an afluent area and the homeowner comes out while we're up in the trees and has a ? or just some concerns about whats going on, some of our guys have no clue as to what is being asked of them. The old smile and shake the head routine, I think it reflects poorly on the company and could put serious doubts in the clients head as to what kind of company this is. Most have no problem with the work aspect but dealing with clients and being able to hold even a basic connversation/explanation is out of there league. I had to learn basic phrases and words in spainish while working in dallas not just for the work aspect but to be able to talk to and get to know the guys i was spending my days with. I just feel that some of the workers here now could care less about our country/language/culture and just want to make and send as much money to their country/family as possible.


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## TREETX (Jul 27, 2003)

Interesting pt about communicating with the client. I would rather a highly intelligent person that can't speak english try to explain it than some toothless white guy from West Virginia.



> I just feel that some of the workers here now could care less about our country/language/culture and just want to make and send as much money to their country/family as possible.



Our culture?? Which culture is that?? Rich white America chilling out at the country club on the weekends never having worked a day in your life?? Middle class white America, trying to figure how to pay for your mini-van since your job just got shipped to china?? Are you a black woman trying to make ends meet??

Their culture is just as much a part of "our culture" as fried chicken and apple pie. America is about immigrants.

Why should they care about learning to be like middle class white guys?? I don't think that is the ultimate goal in life. Plus most of us refer to "them" as being Spanish even though they come from Mexico or Central America - not too many immigrants from Barcelona or Sevilla working here. I speak English, I am from America.

I think it is important that you recognize them as being from El Salvador and their respective countries. You can easily piss off a guy from Teguicigalpa by calling him a Mexican.



> The old smile and shake the head routine, I think it reflects poorly on the company and could put serious doubts in the clients head as to what kind of company this is.



I introduce all of my help to the customer before we start work. I think they need to know who is working there. Plus it gives you a chance to say,"Here is Bernardo, he is an excellent climber that does the highest quality tree work available, but his english is limited. He used to do tree work in his native country, Honduras. Here is Raul, from GTO, he helps us with the important task of clean up, if you have any questions and I am not available, just ask him...."

That gives you a chance to put a name to the face so they don't just see a bunch of "Mexicans" running around the yard. I did the same thing when I worked with white guys.

You're right though, a bunch of random, nameless white guys says a lot more.


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## NickfromWI (Jul 27, 2003)

Thank you, TREETX. Very well put. The point about referring to any spanish speaker as mexican always bothers me. I don't understand why so many people hesitate to take a moment to inquire about a person's background. 

I like the idea of introducing the workers prior to beginning the job!

love
nick


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## TREETX (Jul 27, 2003)

> _Originally posted by NickfromWI _
> * I don't understand why so many people hesitate to take a moment to inquire about a person's background.
> 
> *



You and I both know the answer to that one. They know all they need to know, they are hispanic......

Assumtions go from there.


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## ok2climb (Jul 28, 2003)

TREETEX,

No toothless guys from W. virginia here, just gold fronts that juan traded 4 bulls for in Salvador.

America is full of immigrants, my family being one. Olexander Krywonos Oleksijovic, sounds like I " just got off the boat" myself. Family came thru Ellis Island after Dachau was liberated by US gi's, my dad picked up his first english from his liberators. Came here to be an american and to better his life in our great land of opportunity, told me that learning english to be able to communicate with fellow americans was key. Is that so hard a thing to ask of people? Basic communication skills in a job that demands it. At TCOT they have a program to teach english to workers and they get paid their hourly wage to sit thru classes. We had 1 out of 7 guys go to it, and the one lone guy caught hell from his Salvadorean brothers, they called him the sell out. My whole issue is that we work in a highly dangerous enviorment sometimes, where your life is sometimes in the hands of the men below, I dont want to die or be seriously injured because of lack of communication skills. Almost had it happen in dallas a few times, never again.


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## TREETX (Jul 28, 2003)

> _Originally posted by ok2climb _
> * I dont want to die or be seriously injured because of lack of communication skills. *



Well, get yourself some communication skills. Labor will be increasingly hispanic. Their culture is becoming OUR culture.

Or just sit there in denial - whatever floats your boat.

That or should we round up all of these immigrants and put them in camps??



> No toothless guys from W. virginia here, just gold fronts that juan traded 4 bulls for in Salvador.



I have done tree work in Dachau. The city and the border of the camp as well. Many people who were sent there because they didn't choose to blend into mainstream German society. I urge you to have a more accepting attitude towards different culture than the guards at Dachau did.


Oh well, you have the freedom to be racsist - they have the freedom not to speak english.


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## ok2climb (Jul 28, 2003)

TREETEX,
I too have been to Dachau, sorry i didnt notice the trees, hard to get over my fathers tears. The DI's on PI broke me of all prejuices in life, showing me human suffering thruout the world.(persian gulf,somalia,bosnia,israel) While in TX my friends from there thought i was crazy when i moved near the mexican bario, when i bought a spainish dictionary+pocket translator, when i brought home the 2 young men from zacatecas, to have dinner with my family.
You take things to an extreme wich is unfortunate for you, a lively disscussion quickly turns personal+irrelevant to any topic in the Arboricultural profession.
I do not consider myself a racist, a realist maybe, but no racism here brother.
If you wish to continue our disscussion, please feel free to e-mail, my address
is accessible, nothing to hide. To all other members, apologies for the interruption in tree care forum. 

OK2climb


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## ok2climb (Jul 28, 2003)

workin on a few pints, sorry about the spelling.


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## TREETX (Jul 28, 2003)

you say one thing,.............then the other.

I'm out. Didn't mean to spark flames.

I just think that on Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, language obviously falls behind eating and supporting family. Plus it IS a DIFFERENT culture. Hispanics in general (yes, a stereotype), place a higher value on family than other things, sometimes that includes education.

Labor will be increasingly hispanic, human nature is like a flowing stream, work with it instead of attempting to stop it. The flow is too great here.

Plus the whole,"Immigrants are stealing jobs" line is so bourgeois.

N


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jul 29, 2003)

Their all Amigos!

This is Chuck, he comes from South east Texas. Most people cant understand a lick-a what he says, though he can understand us Yanks all right


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## lhampton (Jul 29, 2003)

I'll be going back to school this fall to learn Spanish. I recently changed jobs so now I work at _another_ company with all hispanic crews. 

I am consistently impressed with the work my new co-workers perform. Their skill and teamwork is impressive. Safety is somewhat lacking, but changing that is one of the duties I have been given.

Several of the guys have put in a great deal of effort into learning english, some haven't. They are now all my co-workers, and for us to do our best, I need to put in my best effort. Regardless of what anyone else puts in.

If everyone had the approach of "What can I do?", instead of "Well, they oughta." Most of this crap would be a non-issue.

Louie Hampton


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## TREETX (Aug 2, 2003)

> _Originally posted by lhampton _
> * They are now all my co-workers, and for us to do our best, I need to put in my best effort.
> 
> If everyone had the approach of "What can I do?", instead of "Well, they oughta." Most of this crap would be a non-issue.
> ...



You have the right approach - it is a team and WE are doing this work. I always push the idea that everyone's job is important. Yes I may climb more but the job doesn't get done if others don't move brush and do less exciting tasks. I am good at moving brush - I never want to seem "above" any job to my crew.

I gave a tailgate safety session this week on chainsaws - it went suprisingly well. I saw a hightened sense of awareness afterward. (Some people were VERY complacent)

It is a team effort, yet their are still officers and enlisted men - we may not hang out together, but we respect eachother.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Aug 3, 2003)

> _Originally posted by TREETX _
> *Some people were VERY complacent*


I ve been on crews where they thought I was silly for hitting the chainbreak after each cut. This is whill libming and bucking on th ground (is that redundant, bucking on the ground??)

It's habit for me, IMO if I'm not cutting the break should be on.

If I'm going to to make several cuts from one stance, I will not apply the break, but if a foot comes off the ground, or I need to pivot, I will hit the break with the knuckles of the hand on the wrap bar.


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