# Alternative Methods for Throw Lines



## *TreeFeller* (May 28, 2016)

Hey guys,
I am relatively new to rope work/climbing and have been having a tough time hitting my targets when using a throw bag. I know it is a skill I need to develop and I will continue working on it. However, I was wondering what type of alternatives there are to hand-throwing a bag? I have seen the APTA and the Big Shot but they seem a little over-kill for my needs. I mostly climb ponderosa pine using SRT and my target limbs are usually between 30'-60'. I want a system that is compact, quick and easy to reload, and will allow me to accurately hit certain branches. Considering some sort of sling shot with a small weight attached to the line... Wanted to get some feedback.

Thanks!


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## Philbert (May 28, 2016)

*TreeFeller* said:


> However, I was wondering what type of alternatives there are to hand-throwing a bag?


Not sure what could be more compact than a Big Shot, assuming that you already have the poles for a pole pruner. It is just a sling shot, although, I suppose, you could use fishing line and lead weights on a smaller sling shot?

Conceptual idea here: http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/anyone-using-drones-to-set-a-throw-line.266170/

Philbert


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## lone wolf (May 28, 2016)

*TreeFeller* said:


> Hey guys,
> I am relatively new to rope work/climbing and have been having a tough time hitting my targets when using a throw bag. I know it is a skill I need to develop and I will continue working on it. However, I was wondering what type of alternatives there are to hand-throwing a bag? I have seen the APTA and the Big Shot but they seem a little over-kill for my needs. I mostly climb ponderosa pine using SRT and my target limbs are usually between 30'-60'. I want a system that is compact, quick and easy to reload, and will allow me to accurately hit certain branches. Considering some sort of sling shot with a small weight attached to the line... Wanted to get some feedback.
> 
> Thanks!


You should be able to get that height and be accurate with just a days practice. Unless you are throwing it wrong.


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## *TreeFeller* (May 28, 2016)

Thanks Philbert, I didn't even consider that the big shot would attach to my poles for the pole pruner. I thought I'd have to order poles made specifically for the big shot or something.


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## *TreeFeller* (May 28, 2016)

Lone wolf, it's quite possible I am throwing it wrong. Just using an underhand toss choked up around 1.5' on the throwline. That's how I've seen it done, but I may look into different throwing techniques. And I probably would benefit from practicing somewhere in the woods, where customers and coworkers aren't watching me fail haha.


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## lone wolf (May 28, 2016)

*TreeFeller* said:


> Lone wolf, it's quite possible I am throwing it wrong. Just using an underhand toss choked up around 1.5' on the throwline. That's how I've seen it done, but I may look into different throwing techniques. And I probably would benefit from practicing somewhere in the woods, where customers and coworkers aren't watching me fail haha.


Thats how I do it. Now what distance away from the trunk are you ? Another issue is keeping it straight and lined up with the target when you let go?


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## *TreeFeller* (May 28, 2016)

As I'm sure you know every tree is different, I stand where I need to be to get the best angle/trajectory on the bag. Distance from the trunk changes drastically from tree to tree. I can hit the easy shots no problem but when I need to hit a specific branch I struggle. I suppose that skill will just come with time and practice.


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## jackjcc (May 28, 2016)

On higher throws the longer the pendulum is the better the accuracy and leverage. Try to get 2-2.5' of line between your hand and bag. Let it swing front to back until it's inline and give her a flick. The tricky thing is using the right power for the shot. The harder the throw the harder it is to be accurate. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## treesmith (May 28, 2016)

Also, don't aim at the branch you want, aim for the gap above it

Sent from my SM-T805Y using Tapatalk


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## JeffGu (May 28, 2016)

Your release is everything... when I miss, it's almost always one of two things... my release timing was bad, or I was standing on the $%&**!!+#!!! throwline, again.


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## lone wolf (May 29, 2016)

OP how many oz bag you throwing?


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## TheTreeSpyder (May 29, 2016)

Are you getting close to target?
>>Before removing missed shot, can you trick or walk that dog into target; backflipping it into target, walking ball/string up and down branch scaffolding!
play, have fun, watch what you are doing and make a missed shot; GOOD!
Then L-earn to evaluate/look for easy shots to see if can walk the dawg into target after easy shot is better than full-bull to target!
.
Are you shooting straight?
>>if not/or anyway try pendulum swing ball between both hands spread more than hip wide, ball swinging between knees, so throwing from more stable V than single 1 arm
.
For extra height/ throw arc, can wide pendulum backwards to tree.
>>looks crazy, is less accurate but can throw higher.
If get close to target, see question_1.
.
Some guys better at throwing like a baseball, not me.
.
This has saved me lots of time/energy/work on removals, especially palms, dead trees:
mytreelessons.com/rl/images/throwline_no_branches.png
.
This will invert to a pulley hanging from branch, no loading on end of blue in use, only on blue bowline and green rig lines:
mytreelessons.com/rl/images/invert_rig_b.png
.
Just as this will invert for friction saver install:
mytreelessons.com/rl/images/invert_fs1.png
.
to this, to reeve line thru:
mytreelessons.com/rl/images/invert_fs2.png
(both inversions need same snap down hard on line to flip ball over backwards as walk the dawg does)
.
Throwline and techniques, great tools, worthy of your time!
practice, practice...


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## *TreeFeller* (May 29, 2016)

TheTreeSpyder said:


> Are you getting close to target?
> >>Before removing missed shot, can you trick or walk that dog into target; backflipping it into target, walking ball/string up and down branch scaffolding!
> play, have fun, watch what you are doing and make a missed shot; GOOD!
> Then L-earn to evaluate/look for easy shots to see if can walk the dawg into target after easy shot is better than full-bull to target!
> ...



Wow thanks for all the helpful advice! I will definitely mess around with using two hands and making the pendulum between my legs. I'm getting better at "walking the dog" and making a missed shot work.


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## Zale (May 29, 2016)

*TreeFeller* said:


> Thanks Philbert, I didn't even consider that the big shot would attach to my poles for the pole pruner. I thought I'd have to order poles made specifically for the big shot or something.



You do need to get the poles for the Big Shot. Do not mount the head on a wooden pole. We had an accident in our company where the climber put the head on a different type of pole and the head broke under pressure and snapped back into his face. Peeled most of his cheek off but the doctors were able to sew it back on. Only use the recommended poles.


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## Philbert (May 29, 2016)

Zale said:


> You do need to get the poles for the Big Shot. . . Only use the recommended poles.


Can the standard Jameson poles be used?

Philbert


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## Zale (May 29, 2016)

Not sure. After that accident, I seldom used one.


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## Philbert (May 30, 2016)

"_The BIG SHOT® changed the way we use throwlines! Fit it into the female ferrule of a utility-grade fiberglass extension pole and you have a simple, accurate, effective means to hurl your throw weight to new heights_."

_"The Big Shot head can only be safely used with inspected and undamaged SherrillTree or Jameson brand utility grade, fiberglass extension poles. DO NOT attempt to use this product on a wooden stick_"

http://www.sherrilltree.com/media/wysiwyg/pdfs/BigShot_Instruct2014.pdf

Philbert


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## scheffa (May 30, 2016)

I use an air cannon similar to that of the apta, cost me about $70 aud. Can shoot accurately to over 150'


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## old CB (May 30, 2016)

Treefeller,

I'm north of you here in CO, cutting mostly Pondos, with some Doug Fir, etc. I suppose with practice--a lot of practice--I could improve my throw, but the Big Shot is what I use. I free-throw only occasionally at a low, nearby limb. (I also welded a 2" trailer hitch ball to an eye bolt that I attach directly to my rope when I need to hit a very nearby target--we call it "the mankiller" and there's only limited situations where it comes into play.)

With the tight holes you typically need to aim for in Pondos, I can't imagine not using the big shot. Quite often I hit my target on the first try. When you fall short of target, aim higher on the next shot, etc. Usually several shots get me where I need to be.

I use 10-oz. throw bags w/ the big shot (lighter bags seem to get more distance), though I carry 14 & 16 oz bags and occasionally use them when the friction of bark won't allow the 10 oz to fall well. Ran into that recently w/ some willow.

Also, since the conifers we have here are crazy full of limbs, I attach a 10 oz bag on both ends of my throwline (which lives in a plastic kitty litter bucket). Once I get the throwline over my target limb, as it comes down it's likely to trap other limbs inside the loop--I climb DDRT exclusively--so I pull up the other end of the line and then swing/work the bag as it comes down trying to get a clean loop with no other limbs inside. (Although I'm sure it's great for others and other situations, SRT means extra gear and I'm already gear-heavy and equipment-heavy.)

I remember when I thought $120 for a big shot seemed like big $. But that thing pays its way every day at work, can't imagine going without it. I'm impressed by the guys who can throw accurately, but I'm not one. I have the two piece pole, and it lives behind my pickup seat.


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## *TreeFeller* (May 30, 2016)

Zale said:


> You do need to get the poles for the Big Shot. Do not mount the head on a wooden pole. We had an accident in our company where the climber put the head on a different type of pole and the head broke under pressure and snapped back into his face. Peeled most of his cheek off but the doctors were able to sew it back on. Only use the recommended poles.



Thanks for the tip and I'm glad your coworker is ok. If i decide to get the big shot I will definitely use the recommended poles!


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## *TreeFeller* (May 30, 2016)

old CB said:


> Treefeller,
> 
> I'm north of you here in CO, cutting mostly Pondos, with some Doug Fir, etc. I suppose with practice--a lot of practice--I could improve my throw, but the Big Shot is what I use. I free-throw only occasionally at a low, nearby limb. (I also welded a 2" trailer hitch ball to an eye bolt that I attach directly to my rope when I need to hit a very nearby target--we call it "the mankiller" and there's only limited situations where it comes into play.)
> 
> ...



My boss is one of those guys who can throw VERY accurately and work the throw bag to where it needs to go, super impressive but I am not one of those guys. I know it comes with time and practice, but sometimes I dont have time. I will likely be buying a big shot after hearing how many people swear by it.


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## Des Perado (May 30, 2016)

I find that I can more accurately throw the bag in underhand than I can with a big shot. As others have already stated, it takes time and practice to get it right, but once you do, it's faster and easier than dealing with another piece of kit, especially when lugging as much stuff into a yard as I do. There will eventually come a time where you find yourself without the big shot for whatever reason, and you'll need to throw in manually. If you're going to go the route of the big shot, try two or three manual throws at your target before go over to the slingshot. You'll eventually get better at throwing, without feeling like you're losing too much time to trying to learn the manual route.

Just my two cents. 

Shaun


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## unclemoustache (Jun 1, 2016)

I rigged my Big Shot so that I can shoot it from the shoulder like a gun.


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## derwoodii (Jun 2, 2016)

here a few variations on the throw method some blokes seen use a similar technique as myself set line between legs gives power and with practice accuracy


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## unclemoustache (Jun 3, 2016)

Nice vid - had to mute it for the crappy music, and skip from the motion sickness, but I see now why I stink at freehand throwing. I'll have to try that technique next time - I don't give near enough length from where I hold it.


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## ArtB (Jun 6, 2016)

I use a compound bow with heavy aluminum arrow with a blunt heavy brass tip. Very accurate.
First shoot a piece of monofilament over where you want it, then pull over a nylon cord, and use the cord to pull the rope.

Have gotten a 5/8" wire rope 100 ft high this way using the cord on a 3/8" nylon rope and then pulling the wire rope.

BTW, the brass head on the arrow is about 8 oz. Using too heavy a draw pull REGULAR (non compound) bow will bend even a good aluminum arrow. - (the 'too heavy' bow when I bent an arrow was an 80# fg Bear bow). Have not tried a crossbow with solid arrow.


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## sprdave (Sep 20, 2016)

The climbers companion says to visualise the bag going where you want it to go. I think that's good advice. Also remember that it's coming from 5 feet in front of you. Not from your eyes. I make myself wear gloves if I'm throwing hard at all so I don't burn the crap out of my fingers. I also make sure my stupid dog doesn't run behind me when I swing it back.


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## rarefish383 (Sep 20, 2016)

Back before the throwing bag we had the hard rubber Johnny Balls, and before that, I put a one ounce weight on 60 pound test mono and cast with a light spinning rod, reel combo. Got good enough I could hit a bass in the head with the sinker and knock him out. But, there is a reason that dinosaurs are dead, and reasons that I'm retired. Couldn't adapt to throwing that little bag, Joe.


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## beastmaster (Sep 21, 2016)

We set up to 20 lines a day in 120+ft pines. We might have 3 guys using big shots placing tipping lines and srt lines in trees in an giving area. Some times the trees are really crowded and you only have a small target way up there. Big shot does it no problem. It a short learning curve. Its hard to toss a throw line in a tight space or crowded forest floor.


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## derwoodii (Sep 21, 2016)

its the crap on the ground that bugs me catches every throw thats perfect placed,,,, a line bucket bag is handy


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## Amp4027 (Oct 15, 2016)

Air/potato cannon made from PVC/ABS and a M203 grenade sight if you are daring. Don't forget a pressure release valve for the 'tank' side.

Or go with a 12oz and learn to baseball - may be better to buy the throwbag and throwline separate. I bought the Weaver 12oz 150' package, and this throwline likes to knot up and tangle if you even look at it wrong - about to say F it and tie 250' of paracord to it.


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## mahlon libby (Oct 22, 2016)

*TreeFeller* said:


> Hey guys,
> I am relatively new to rope work/climbing and have been having a tough time hitting my targets when using a throw bag. I know it is a skill I need to develop and I will continue working on it. However, I was wondering what type of alternatives there are to hand-throwing a bag? I have seen the APTA and the Big Shot but they seem a little over-kill for my needs. I mostly climb ponderosa pine using SRT and my target limbs are usually between 30'-60'. I want a system that is compact, quick and easy to reload, and will allow me to accurately hit certain branches. Considering some sort of sling shot with a small weight attached to the line... Wanted to get some feedback.
> 
> Thanks!





*TreeFeller* said:


> Hey guys,
> I am relatively new to rope work/climbing and have been having a tough time hitting my targets when using a throw bag. I know it is a skill I need to develop and I will continue working on it. However, I was wondering what type of alternatives there are to hand-throwing a bag? I have seen the APTA and the Big Shot but they seem a little over-kill for my needs. I mostly climb ponderosa pine using SRT and my target limbs are usually between 30'-60'. I want a system that is compact, quick and easy to reload, and will allow me to accurately hit certain branches. Considering some sort of sling shot with a small weight attached to the line... Wanted to get some feedback.
> 
> Thanks!


A method i use a soft ball or base ball drill a hole in it about the size of your thumb. Put a dowell in that hole. Use glue. And tie your line. Practice a few ways to throw it. Grab the stick throw over hand lob it. Or my favorite throw it up over opisite shoulder


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## BC WetCoast (Oct 22, 2016)

mahlon libby said:


> A method i use a soft ball or base ball drill a hole in it about the size of your thumb. Put a dowell in that hole. Use glue. And tie your line. Practice a few ways to throw it. Grab the stick throw over hand lob it. Or my favorite throw it up over opisite shoulder


How do you keep it from getting caught in tight crotches? Even throwbags get caught.


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