# Whats the easiest to learn chain sharpener



## chuckinnc (Feb 14, 2022)

I have tried many files & dremel setups but only make powder or sawdust after sharpening a chain, I need the EASIEST, dummy proof way to sharpen a chain. All my chains are 3/8 pico or low profile, I have been looking
at Stihl 2in1 sharpener, seems to be easiest to learn. Does anyone have a opinion on easiest to use chain sharpener?


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## TheJollyLogger (Feb 14, 2022)

For the easiest way to get consistent results, I would suggest the Granberg bar mount system for out in the field. My neighbor just bought the Oregon compact bench grinder and I helped him set it up. For 70 bucks on Amazon, I was really impressed.


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## NorthernMaverick (Feb 14, 2022)

Couple things I would suggest. 

Husqvarna Roller guide is the best guide I've used, and most come with a depth gauge attached for checking drag height. Also make sure your files are sharp/ new and of a good brand. Cheap junk files won't give good performance. Grinders are "easy" to use, but I found I can get a chain sharper with a file. Not to mention the troubles that can come from poor use of a grinder, burnt cutters, taking off too much and using up your chain etc. Plus field maintenance is easier once you learn to file properly. Taking 3 chains to the woods, and taking the time to change them, dropping bar nuts in the snow..... You get the picture. What brand of chain are you running? 
Hope this helps.


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## SweetMK (Feb 14, 2022)

I bought the Pferd (same as the Stihl 2 in 1) last year,,
It is the first ever time in 40 years that I feel I have sharpened a chain correctly,,,,,,,,,,,,


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## NorthernMaverick (Feb 14, 2022)

One thing I forgot to add is make sure you have a stable spot to sharpen / mount the saw in. Shop vise, stump vise, or something like it. Some guys hold their bar by hand, squeeze the powerhead between their legs or other things. I just find it easier the have both hands for filing, and have the saw sitting solid.


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## TheJollyLogger (Feb 14, 2022)

NorthernMaverick said:


> Couple things I would suggest. View attachment 964865
> 
> Husqvarna Roller guide is the best guide I've used, and most come with a depth gauge attached for checking drag height. Also make sure your files are sharp/ new and of a good brand. Cheap junk files won't give good performance. Grinders are "easy" to use, but I found I can get a chain sharper with a file. Not to mention the troubles that can come from poor use of a grinder, burnt cutters, taking off too much and using up your chain etc. Plus field maintenance is easier once you learn to file properly. Taking 3 chains to the woods, and taking the time to change them, dropping bar nuts in the snow..... You get the picture. What brand of chain are you running?
> Hope this helps.


The reason I suggest the Granberg and the Oregon is the OP was looking for "Dummy proof." Both the husky roller guide and the stihl/prefrd 2 in 1 rely on freehanding the file. I freehand, have for years, and it works just fine for me, but I recognize that is a skill that takes hours and years to master. Both the stihl and husky systems do allow for a certain amount of movement in the chain that allows for human error, whereas once a granberg is properly set, you will have consistent results. Same with a grinder.


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## ATH (Feb 14, 2022)

I've also tried a bunch of options.

Here are my thoughts:

1) Sharpen the chain long before you are "just making fine dust". Once you hit that spot, you have left yourself in a tough situation to hand file and get back to something worthwhile. Not saying it can't be done. I'm saying that is a hard place to learn from.
2) If your chains are in bad shape, it may be worth having them sharpened on a bench grinder. After that you can keep them sharp by hand. Several years ago I finally broke down and bought a bench grinder. I don't use it often. But when I need it nothing beats it.
3) Use quality files. And keep them new. Files also gets dull. Once that happens no matter what the system is you will not get results. I prefer Pferd classic files.
4) It should go without saying...but make sure you are using the correct size of file.
5) Finally, I've also been extremely happy with the Pferd Chain Sharp CS-X. I have one Stihl and one Pferd (different sizes of different saws...). They are identical except for color.

The Granberg thing does a good job, but is obnoxious to set up. So I never use it. Dremel thing was not that good...even the purpose-made Oregon thing that uses the same stones wasn't worth it. I've seen good reviews of the Timberline, but haven't used it.


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## Howard Justice (Feb 14, 2022)

chuckinnc said:


> I have tried many files & dremel setups but only make powder or sawdust after sharpening a chain, I need the EASIEST, dummy proof way to sharpen a chain. All my chains are 3/8 pico or low profile, I have been looking
> at Stihl 2in1 sharpener, seems to be easiest to learn. Does anyone have a opinion on easiest to use chain sharpener?


We have begun using the two in one system by Pferd or Stihl. Most all of our work is in the storm response arena. We have most everything from 170 to 661. Saws occ get buried in the dirt and the trees are already covered with the storm debris …. Therefore we are sharpening often. We usually have one person dedicated to sharpen all the saws…. set up at a table by our trailer… Using the two and one, albeit with some practice, we can go from find dust to long curly Q’s after spending about 15 minutes with the smaller saws. Also much quicker and simpler as the rakers are addressed with the two and one at the same time as the cutters. Also with the two in one new volunteers, if they have a bit of mechanical inclination, can learn the 2n1 system quicker than with a simple round file. Newbies struggle w 30 degrees and horizontal and it is apparent when you come behind them w 2-in-1. This system may not work for everybody but in our environment it is a tremendous improvement over where we were. And to be sure…most on here have much more experience than I do.


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## TheTreeSpyder (Feb 14, 2022)

Would say to just look/model to just dress chains by hand;
let pro w/pro-grinder(and never a dark tooth from heat) reset/rebuild to spec and advise.
as most realistic.


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## TheJollyLogger (Feb 14, 2022)

TheTreeSpyder said:


> Would say to just look/model to just dress chains by hand;
> let pro w/pro-grinder(and never a dark tooth from heat) reset/rebuild to spec and advise.
> as most realistic.


It's not rocket science... just the right tool for the job, and for a newbie, take the hand work out of the equation.


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## Fatherwheels (Feb 14, 2022)

chuckinnc said:


> I have tried many files & dremel setups but only make powder or sawdust after sharpening a chain, I need the EASIEST, dummy proof way to sharpen a chain. All my chains are 3/8 pico or low profile, I have been looking
> at Stihl 2in1 sharpener, seems to be easiest to learn. Does anyone have a opinion on easiest to use chain sharpener?


I would go with the Stihl combo, it sharpens cutter and takes a shave off
the depth gauges at the same time, that way everything will stay in sync,
your using the original new chain as the jig to follow.


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## Fatherwheels (Feb 14, 2022)

Howard Justice said:


> We have begun using the two in one system by Pferd or Stihl. Most all of our work is in the storm response arena. We have most everything from 170 to 661. Saws occ get buried in the dirt and the trees are already covered with the storm debris …. Therefore we are sharpening often. We usually have one person dedicated to sharpen all the saws…. set up at a table by our trailer… Using the two and one, albeit with some practice, we can go from find dust to long curly Q’s after spending about 15 minutes withvthe smaller saws. Also much quicker and simpler as the rakers are addressed with the two and one at the same time as the cutters. Also with the two in one new volunteers, if they have a bit of mechanical inclination, can learn the 2n1 system quicker than with a simple round file. Newbies struggle w 30 degrees and horizontal and it is apparent when you come behind them w 2-in-1. This system may not work for everybody but in our environment it is a tremendous improvement over where we were. And to be sure…most on here have much more experience than I do.


I agree, but if you can use a two in one, then you can use the simplified
versions of either Stihl or Oregon, it only files the cutter, then once in a while
the depth gauges need a swipe, the skills are transferable from one tool to another, those tools that rest on the chain with the rollers do a good job too,
its all about getting in some practice.


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## Karrl (Feb 14, 2022)

I used the husky roller guide and Stihl 2n1 and thought they were both good but for different reasons. The Stihl is the faster and easier option but the husky can help train you to file freehand imo. It’s just one of those things that takes practice and finding out what works for you.

Another tip for best results is to set up good lighting on your bench vise area. If you can see the edge of the tooth reflecting it means that edge is not sharp. It’s easy to miss in regular lighting but it’s a huge difference maker. Also you can better monitor your hook and angle, it should look like it was when it was new.


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## thenne1713 (Feb 14, 2022)

chuckinnc said:


> I have tried many files & dremel setups but only make powder or sawdust after sharpening a chain, I need the EASIEST, dummy proof way to sharpen a chain. All my chains are 3/8 pico or low profile, I have been looking
> at Stihl 2in1 sharpener, seems to be easiest to learn. Does anyone have a opinion on easiest to use chain sharpener?


Suspicion you are not filing depth gages? STIHL 2 in 1 is easiest and will give great results, filing cutter and depth at same time. https://www.amazon.com/s/?k=stihl+2...4a-7ae4f24203e8&pd_rd_wg=B6uma&qid=1644889677


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## Howard Justice (Feb 14, 2022)

Motherboard said:


> I agree, but if you can use a two in one, then you can use the simplified
> versions of either Stihl or Oregon, it only files the cutter, then once in a while
> the depth gauges need a swipe, the skills are transferable from one tool to another, those tools that rest on the chain with the rollers do a good job too,
> its all about getting in some practice.





TheTreeSpyder said:


> Would say to just look/model to just dress chains by hand;
> let pro w/pro-grinder(and never a dark tooth from heat) reset/rebuild to spec and advise.
> as most realistic.


Good info TreeSpyder. Thank you!


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## Howard Justice (Feb 14, 2022)

kjorrrits said:


> I used the husky roller guide and Stihl 2n1 and thought they were both good but for different reasons. The Stihl is the faster and easier option but the husky can help train you to file freehand imo. It’s just one of those things that takes practice and finding out what works for you.
> 
> Another tip for best results is to set up good lighting on your bench vise area. If you can see the edge of the tooth reflecting it means that edge is not sharp. It’s easy to miss in regular lighting but it’s a huge difference maker. Also you can better monitor your hook and angle, it should look like it was when it was new.


Not familiar w Husky Roller Guide…. Searching now for them….


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## Howard Justice (Feb 14, 2022)

Any recommended videos I can use w these! Thanks for letting me know !


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## Philbert (Feb 14, 2022)

chuckinnc said:


> I need the EASIEST, dummy proof way to sharpen a chain.





chuckinnc said:


> Does anyone have a opinion on easiest to use chain sharpener?


Lots of ways to sharpen. Lots of opinions too!

I think that the best solution for you is to find someone down there in North Carolina to show you in person, and to coach you a little, and share some tips. 

*Which A.S. Members live in ‘the old north state’?*

Then do it their way, using their tools and methods. 

In general, I believe that the most important thing is knowing what you want your finished cutters to look like: then you can choose a method you prefer to get you there. And if you use files, remember that they get dull and need to be replaced periodically. 

Philbert


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## sundance (Feb 14, 2022)

TheJollyLogger said:


> For the easiest way to get consistent results, I would suggest the Granberg bar mount system for out in the field. My neighbor just bought the Oregon compact bench grinder and I helped him set it up. For 70 bucks on Amazon, I was really impressed.


I agree on the Granberg (or one of the Tecomec similar units). A little bit of a learning curve but it offers good consistent results every time with a good file.


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## Howard Justice (Feb 14, 2022)

Agreed. I have a close friend who was a chief backcountry ranger for one of our largest National Parks. There for 30 years. Used saws deep in bxcounty days on end…. where no power avail for clearing blowdown off trails. Therefore only hand file w old style metal file guide or free hand. Grateful for time he spent w me.


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## NorthernMaverick (Feb 14, 2022)

The part that throws me off with the granberg, is what do you do in the field? Hike back to the truck? For all the bother I'd go with a grinder, and 2 spare chains. It sure doesn't seem like it would be a real time efficient tool. I might be lazy, but I hate to fight my way though 200 yds of brush to get something from the truck, so i like my stuff to be on my belt. I guess if you're bucking firewood on a landing, or yard things would be different.


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## NorthernMaverick (Feb 14, 2022)

Howard Justice said:


> Any recommended videos I can use w these! Thanks for letting me know !


I don't know of any videos, sure you could find them on YouTube. Really easy to use, just like free hand, except it keeps you up in the top of the tooth, so you have a consistent height, and you can see your angle easily.


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## TheJollyLogger (Feb 14, 2022)

NorthernMaverick said:


> The part that throws me off with the granberg, is what do you do in the field? Hike back to the truck? For all the bother I'd go with a grinder, and 2 spare chains. It sure doesn't seem like it would be a real time efficient tool. I might be lazy, but I hate to fight my way though 200 yds of brush to get something from the truck, so i like my stuff to be on my belt. I guess if you're bucking firewood on a landing, or yard things would be different.


Read the original post... he has tried most methods with little success, and is looking for something "dummy proof". I think a walk back to the truck for repeatable results will be worth it to him.


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## The Shooters Apprentice (Feb 14, 2022)

Round file. I prefer one size bigger then recommended, but that’s just me.
Sit down and wear out a couple chains learning how to sharpen them.

file out under the tooth first, take out the gullet, and the file the cutting edge from underneath. Down, back, and up.

Bucking Billy Ray had a good video on YouTube about it.


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## NorthernMaverick (Feb 14, 2022)

My guess I the problem is deeper than just the file system. Ever try getting cheap junk chain brought back around after its making dust? Not fun. He never said what brand he's using.


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## FNEC (Feb 15, 2022)

chuckinnc said:


> I have tried many files & dremel setups but only make powder or sawdust after sharpening a chain, I need the EASIEST, dummy proof way to sharpen a chain. All my chains are 3/8 pico or low profile, I have been looking
> at Stihl 2in1 sharpener, seems to be easiest to learn. Does anyone have a opinion on easiest to use chain sharpener?


All the tools are of no use unless you watch a few more YouTubes on what actually makes a chain (teeth) sharp and useful for cutting. Specifically the side of the tooth, the top of the tooth and the geometry required, plus the most forgotten thing of all reducing the top of the raker in front of the tooth as the tooth gets smaller. You can sharpen until the cows come home but if you have lost the gap between the top of the raker and the front of the tooth (because your tooth has been sharpened down - it is at an sloping down angle) then the tooth has no cut gap.
Hard to setup and fancy tools take the need for knowledge away, other than how to use them, but knowing what is happening means one should be able to hand file, because you then know how it should move and direction etc. The Stihl 2 in 1 helps not only the tooth angle but auto reduces the raker for you so you don't have to think about that. You still need to know how to use it and the reason you get a good sharpen because of how you use it.
Some in here have commented on another forgotten gem.......files dull.... a dull file will not remove metal from your chain teeth. They are cheap so renew them often.


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## chuckinnc (Feb 15, 2022)

NorthernMaverick said:


> Couple things I would suggest. View attachment 964865
> 
> Husqvarna Roller guide is the best guide I've used, and most come with a depth gauge attached for checking drag height. Also make sure your files are sharp/ new and of a good brand. Cheap junk files won't give good performance. Grinders are "easy" to use, but I found I can get a chain sharper with a file. Not to mention the troubles that can come from poor use of a grinder, burnt cutters, taking off too much and using up your chain etc. Plus field maintenance is easier once you learn to file properly. Taking 3 chains to the woods, and taking the time to change them, dropping bar nuts in the snow..... You get the picture. What brand of chain are you running?
> Hope this helps.


Orgeon, because that's what the local Northern tool carries, not much to choose from where I live


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## Howard Justice (Feb 15, 2022)

The Shooters Apprentice said:


> Round file. I prefer one size bigger then recommended, but that’s just me.
> Sit down and wear out a couple chains learning how to sharpen them.
> 
> file out under the tooth first, take out the gullet, and the file the cutting edge from underneath. Down, back, and up.
> ...


I’ll look for this video…. Seen sev of his vids. Thx.


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## Philbert (Feb 15, 2022)

The Granberg type, clamp on file guides, will produce very sharp, uniform, consistent chains. But they can appear complex and confusing to new users, so I would not recommend them in this situation. 

That said, many people love them, and the basic design has been in use over 60 years. Some people take them into the field in a small bag, where they also carry a stump vise, rags, spare parts, extra wedges, etc., and keep that with their fuel and oil. 





__





Granberg File-N-Joint, Revisited


*Note: The original images in this thread were lost. I will try to add some back which are as close as possible . I cannot add photos back to other people's posts* When I first started to sharpen my own chains I bought an Oregon, bar-mounted, filing guide (model 23736A). This was the...




www.arboristsite.com





Philbert


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## NorthernMaverick (Feb 15, 2022)

Philbert said:


> The Granberg type, clamp on file guides, will produce very sharp, uniform, consistent chains. But they can appear complex and confusing to new users, so I would not recommend them in this situation.
> 
> That said, many people love them, and the basic design has been in use over 60 years. Some people take them into the field in a small bag, where they also carry a stump vise, rags, spare parts, extra wedges, etc., and keep that with their fuel and oil.
> 
> ...


Great idea on the bag.


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## NorthernMaverick (Feb 15, 2022)

chuckinnc said:


> Orgeon, because that's what the local Northern tool carries, not much to choose from where I live


Like oregon S52 that comes in plastic packages? That stuff can tend to be soft, so you'll want to sharpen long before it gets real dull, otherwise you'll be dealing with badly rounded corners. The good side is its cheap so practicing your filing on it doesn't break the wallet so bad.


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## Hermio (Feb 15, 2022)

TheJollyLogger said:


> For the easiest way to get consistent results, I would suggest the Granberg bar mount system for out in the field. My neighbor just bought the Oregon compact bench grinder and I helped him set it up. For 70 bucks on Amazon, I was really impressed.


I have used the Granberg system, and it delivers great results. Project Farm agreees. But it is slow. I prefer the 2 in 1 system.


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## Ted Jenkins (Feb 15, 2022)

By far the easiest cheapest system to get chains sharp is with a file. Guides have problems also so why use them. Chain saw grinders are for those who do not want to learn how to sharpen a chain. It takes about twenty minutes for me to sharpen a 30'' 404 semi chisel bit chain. I do not believe any one can take a chain off the bar put a new chain on the bar and adjust in under ten minutes. I have seen some people who are racing with one another just to show how fast they are but it is not relevant. Say for a moment that one can change a chain in five minutes then the chain needs to be put in a grinder to sharpen and that process takes at least fifteen minutes. So what has been gained here. The chain will need to be replaced much much sooner than a hand sharpened chain. So after watching some videos about chain sharpening and the OP still is struggling then make a deal with some one who is good at sharpening to show how it is done. I am often out in the field for weeks and months at a time so setting up a grinder does not seem practical. Then call it a day. Thanks


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## The Shooters Apprentice (Feb 15, 2022)

Ted Jenkins said:


> By far the easiest cheapest system to get chains sharp is with a file. Guides have problems also so why use them. Chain saw grinders are for those who do not want to learn how to sharpen a chain. It takes about twenty minutes for me to sharpen a 30'' 404 semi chisel bit chain. I do not believe any one can take a chain off the bar put a new chain on the bar and adjust in under ten minutes. I have seen some people who are racing with one another just to show how fast they are but it is not relevant. Say for a moment that one can change a chain in five minutes then the chain needs to be put in a grinder to sharpen and that process takes at least fifteen minutes. So what has been gained here. The chain will need to be replaced much much sooner than a hand sharpened chain. So after watching some videos about chain sharpening and the OP still is struggling then make a deal with some one who is good at sharpening to show how it is done. I am often out in the field for weeks and months at a time so setting up a grinder does not seem practical. Then call it a day. Thanks


Grinders do have usefulness. Badly damaged chains are great on a grinder for grinding them back and getting everything evened out again. When I’m out on a job I usually will just swap a new loop onto a saw instead of sharpening since it’s faster and if that saws not running I’m loosing money, and it’s easier to grind a loop off of the saw vs mounting it back up and hand filing. And faster. Takes about 5 mins to grind a 24” chain.


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## Howard Justice (Feb 15, 2022)

Philbert said:


> The Granberg type, clamp on file guides, will produce very sharp, uniform, consistent chains. But they can appear complex and confusing to new users, so I would not recommend them in this situation.
> 
> That said, many people love them, and the basic design has been in use over 60 years. Some people take them into the field in a small bag, where they also carry a stump vise, rags, spare parts, extra wedges, etc., and keep that with their fuel and oil.
> 
> ...


Philbert, we have one with us when we respond but only use it when a chain has sustained significant damage. As you said …. They take some time and a bit of learning curve knowledge to set up.


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## TheJollyLogger (Feb 15, 2022)

Howard Justice said:


> Philbert, we have one with us when we respond but only use it when a chain has sustained significant damage. As you said …. They take some time and a bit of learning curve knowledge to set up.


Read the original post, don't highjack it...


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## Philbert (Feb 15, 2022)

TheJollyLogger said:


> Read the original post, don't highjack it...


????
The original post asked:


chuckinnc said:


> Does anyone have a opinion on easiest to use chain sharpener?


Someone suggested the Granberg file guides. A few of us shared opinions that it is a very good tool, but maybe not the easiest to use, and why. 

Seems we we are responding directly to the OP’s request. 

Philbert


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## TheJollyLogger (Feb 15, 2022)

Philbert said:


> ????
> The original post asked:
> 
> Someone suggested the Granberg file guides. A few of us shared opinions that it is a very good tool, but maybe not the easiest to use, and why.
> ...


Phil, read the op closely... he is looking for consistent results, not easy as far as speed... to just tell him to get better at hand filing does him no service. He stated he had already tried the old standards and they weren't working for him, so yes, for old pros to just keep saying how they do it is not answering his original question. Keep in mind he said easiest to get results, not easiest to use or fastest...


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## The Shooters Apprentice (Feb 15, 2022)

TheJollyLogger said:


> Phil, read the op closely... he is looking for consistent results, not easy as far as speed... to just tell him to get better at hand filing does him no service. He stated he had already tried the old standards and they weren't working for him, so yes, for old pros to just keep saying how they do it is not answering his original question. Keep in mind he said easiest to get results, not easiest to use or fastest...


A bench grinder is the only way to get 100% consistent results, but even then, you have to play with it from side to side because in the ones I’ve it always cuts one side shorter then the other if left on the same settings.


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## Philbert (Feb 15, 2022)

The Shooters Apprentice said:


> . . . but even then, you have to play with it . . .



Right. None of these methods are “automatic“, including the automatic ones! That is why I am recommending that the OP find a local mentor that can give him some hands-on guidance with one of the basic methods. 

Philbert


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## The Shooters Apprentice (Feb 15, 2022)

Philbert said:


> Right. None of these methods are “automatic“, including the automatic ones! That is why I am recommending that the OP find a local mentor that can give him some hands-on guidance with one of the basic methods.
> 
> Philbert


When I first started sharpening I would break out the calipers and measure teeth. Anymore, I just let the raker guage take care of any variance.


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## TheJollyLogger (Feb 15, 2022)

Philbert said:


> Right. None of these methods are “automatic“, including the automatic ones! That is why I am recommending that the OP find a local mentor that can give him some hands-on guidance with one of the basic methods.
> 
> Philbert


That wasn't what he asked for, he asked for the easiest way to get dummy proof results...


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## The Shooters Apprentice (Feb 15, 2022)

TheJollyLogger said:


> That wasn't what he asked for, he asked for the easiest way to get dummy proof results...


I don’t know that any of them are really dummy prove. I’ve had a ton of chains come through my shop that had been done at other shops before me and were done wrong on a grinder.
Just have to pick something and then get good at it.


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## TheJollyLogger (Feb 15, 2022)

The Shooters Apprentice said:


> I don’t know that any of them are really dummy prove. I’ve had a ton of chains come through my shop that had been done at other shops before me and were done wrong on a grinder.
> Just have to pick something and then get good at it.


Yes, but I will say hand filing is an art, even with a guide... if a guy is struggling and an occasional user, way better off with a grinder or a granberg...


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## Big_Eddy (Feb 15, 2022)

I’m a dummy and the Husky roller guides work best for me.
This chain has cut 68 cords (real cords) of blocks so far. My goal is to hit 75 before I retire it. 
Hand filed with the Husky roller guide every one or two tanks fuel and once on the grinder to even out the teeth. (I tend to shorten left teeth more than rights) 

Still cuts straight and fast. 

Seriously, as long as the file is aligned and rolled straight without wobbling, even a dummy like me can’t mess it up. 







Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## The Shooters Apprentice (Feb 15, 2022)

Those r


Big_Eddy said:


> I’m a dummy and the Husky roller guides work best for me.
> This chain has cut 68 cords (real cords) of blocks so far. My goal is to hit 75 before I retire it.
> Hand filed with the Husky roller guide every one or two tanks fuel and once on the grinder to even out the teeth. (I tend to shorten left teeth more than rights)
> 
> ...


Those roller guides work good. That’s what I recommend to people who are looking for a file guide.


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## Shaun Bowler (Feb 15, 2022)

Howard Justice said:


> Agreed. I have a close friend who was a chief backcountry ranger for one of our largest National Parks. There for 30 years. Used saws deep in bxcounty days on end…. where no power avail for clearing blowdown off trails. Therefore only hand file w old style metal file guide or free hand. Grateful for time he spent w me.


How do those people carry a mid-range saw, fuel, and enough 'supplies, to last a few days? Regarding "sharping"; if you do not know how to sharpen a saw you should not be using one. Ask a friend who knows a friend of a friend. Most important-use a "fresh file" and get rid of it when it stops cutting.


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## Howard Justice (Feb 15, 2022)

Shaun Bowler said:


> How do those people carry a mid-range saw, fuel, and enough 'supplies, to last a few days? Regarding "sharping"; if you do not know how to sharpen a saw you should not be using one. Ask a friend who knows a friend of a friend. Most important-use a "fresh file" and get rid of it when it stops cutting.


Shaun, depending on the quantity of material to be removed… They might carry gear in a backpack… There have been times they will also use a chopper to drop supplies in specific locations depending on weather conditions… And on some trails in this national park llamas are occ used to transport supplies in certain locations. They often work in concert with dedicated trail crews that are not necessarily rangers.… hope this helps.


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## timsmcm (Feb 16, 2022)

Just because people can't sharpen a chain doesn't mean they should not use the saw. There are many people who can't change a flat tire, or change their own oil. If you can't sharpen carry extra chains.


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## Hermio (Feb 16, 2022)

thenne1713 said:


> Suspicion you are not filing depth gages? STIHL 2 in 1 is easiest and will give great results, filing cutter and depth at same time. https://www.amazon.com/s/?k=stihl+2...4a-7ae4f24203e8&pd_rd_wg=B6uma&qid=1644889677


However, you can save a few bucks by buying the exact same product under the Pferd brand name. Pferd makes it for Stihl. I guess orange plastic costs more than blue.


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## Franny K (Feb 16, 2022)

chuckinnc said:


> Does anyone have a opinion on easiest to use chain sharpener?


I have not used the 2 in 1 or the granberg or the timberline or a grinder. Hence consider it only a partial answer.

The easiest way and fool proof as possible imo is to package up a bunch of chains and send them to the razzor sharp guy. Of course the upstart chain from walmart.com or ebay is so inexpensive in this size, make your own determination.

I put a picture of what the husky roller sharpener is for that class of chain look for h35 and h36. The depth gauge tool is pictured it is not like earlier in this thread and not like on the printed material. It seems to work well for at least the first few normal sharpenings. The correct file size fits in the hole as shown. Should pretty much eliminate any error due to file flex.



I have it on a few small solid bars as in not laminated. These have much more precicse groove in them and will eliminate a lot of wiggle compared to what I believe you have from skimming your prior posts on this site. There are vices of sorts to really firmly hold the drive links.

Reading post 1 and the part about multiple devices and just dust my guess would be not removing sufficient material. Remove material until a fingernail rubbed in a manner like cutting wood on the corner kind of hangs up. Then do depth gauge if needed. The Stihl depth gauge tool in 0.65 mm with the filing portion on the end was not available for the picture. It is pretty simple if the chain does not dig in well then raise the far end 3/4 inch for a first testing. Maybe one more gentle pass after the depth gauge adjustment for good measure.


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## Franny K (Feb 16, 2022)

Big_Eddy said:


> I’m a dummy and the Husky roller guides work best for me.
> This chain has cut 68 cords (real cords) of blocks so far. My goal is to hit 75 before I retire it.
> Hand filed with the Husky roller guide every one or two tanks fuel and once on the grinder to even out the teeth. (I tend to shorten left teeth more than rights)
> 
> ...


If you had used that file guide from new to where the tooth length is now I would expect the wear on the rollers to be over a much higher percentage of the length. Those things sit a bit on an angle front to back so the same percentage of the file diameter is above the cutter top.


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## Big_Eddy (Feb 16, 2022)

The picture shows a brand new C85 guide used just once on that filing. I had been using my previous H48 guide up until then on the same chain. Rollers are more worn for sure.

Angles are slightly different between guides. One filing adjusted them to the C85 recommended 30,0,60






Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Ponytail666 (Feb 17, 2022)

chuckinnc said:


> I have tried many files & dremel setups but only make powder or sawdust after sharpening a chain, I need the EASIEST, dummy proof way to sharpen a chain. All my chains are 3/8 pico or low profile, I have been looking
> at Stihl 2in1 sharpener, seems to be easiest to learn. Does anyone have a opinion on easiest to use chain sharpener?


Husqvarna file handle with basic file guide. 2in1's are easiest to learn, but I teach my students to cut with a new chain, cut with a worn chain, once they've felt the difference, the aim is to make the old chain cut again. No need for fancy kit, just hard graft, callouses & perseverance.


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## Ponytail666 (Feb 17, 2022)

chuckinnc said:


> I have tried many files & dremel setups but only make powder or sawdust after sharpening a chain, I need the EASIEST, dummy proof way to sharpen a chain. All my chains are 3/8 pico or low profile, I have been looking
> at Stihl 2in1 sharpener, seems to be easiest to learn. Does anyone have a opinion on easiest to use chain sharpener?


Husqvarna file handle with basic file guide. 2in1's are easiest to learn, but I teach my students to cut with a new chain, cut with a worn chain, once they've felt the difference, the aim is to make the old chain cut again. No need for fancy kit, just hard graft, callouses perseverance.


Philbert said:


> ????
> The original post asked:
> 
> Someone suggested the Granberg file guides. A few of us shared opinions that it is a very good tool, but maybe not the easiest to use, and why.
> ...


Basic file handle with angles marked, clean file, the guide is marked on the file handle. Practice, practice, practice.


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## FNEC (Feb 17, 2022)

The Shooters Apprentice said:


> A bench grinder is the only way to get 100% consistent results, but even then, you have to play with it from side to side because in the ones I’ve it always cuts one side shorter then the other if left on the same settings.


Expensive ones I imagine are very stable, but my cheapy style one as you move the grinding head down you can with a little pressure change its angle of attack a little left or right, well that makes a big difference on a tooth, even a long tooth perhaps providing resistence to the angle. A longer tooth I find having to apply a little more pressure against the tooth to get its size down (if I am trying to even out teeth) and making sure you go right down into the gullet stop you set to ensure full grind........ whilst sounding off topic, it is not, it goes to show that even a supposed fail safe option of a grinder has nuances and difficulties. Even using a grinder you need to know what exactly is beign sharpened and the geomtry so you can tell if you are getting it done correctly. Still easy to grind badly.


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## FNEC (Feb 17, 2022)

TheJollyLogger said:


> Yes, but I will say hand filing is an art, even with a guide... if a guy is struggling and an occasional user, way better off with a grinder or a granberg...


I can put a sharp tooth on a chain hand filing, but I realised that only doing that I was getting differing teeth lengths as certain teeth needed more effort to get sharp (and I wasn't over compensating in better teeth) and angles were getting out of line despite a guide one on the tooth. An occasional grind can correct this easier than hand filing your way out of it....


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## FNEC (Feb 17, 2022)

Back to thread specifics..... from what others have said, grinding seems easy but as you are not buying an expensive grinder then cheaper ones have issues that mean certain things are not done correctly and they require setting up to get chain ground right.....so you need chain knowledge, sharpening knowledge and user knowledge....so not easy by any stretch.....and expensive if you are not correcting 5 chains one after the other etc (as in heavy users it becomes more effective)....so likes of granberg as long asyou can set it up, it takes care of all the sharpening knowledge and does it by the book. In the field it si easy to dull a chain and if you have no spare then quick and easy(with a little youtube help) the 2in1s are good at what they do but require a little user sharpening knowledge to perfect. So the AIM is not too fiddly or hard to setup yet the actualy sharpenign does not need a lot of knwoledge or skill...


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## Philbert (Feb 17, 2022)

^What he said, above^.

“_Lots of ways to sharpen; everyone has to find something that works for them_” - Philbert

If you know what you want your finished cutters to look like, you can probably use a variety of methods. In practice, you will likely prefer one method over the others. This is why I encouraged the OP to find a local mentor. Each method has its nuances.

When I work with new volunteers, they often prefer the ‘2-In-1’ file guides, because they eliminate the need to do the depth gauges as a separate task. But the still need sharp files, a way to stabilize the bar and chain, and how to know when the edges are sharp.

Philbert


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## Ted Jenkins (Feb 17, 2022)

FNEC said:


> I can put a sharp tooth on a chain hand filing, but I realised that only doing that I was getting differing teeth lengths as certain teeth needed more effort to get sharp (and I wasn't over compensating in better teeth) and angles were getting out of line despite a guide one on the tooth. An occasional grind can correct this easier than hand filing your way out of it....


The reason to hand sharpen is that all the teeth are different. The reason to grind with a grinder is all the teeth are the same. If you have a chain that has hit a few rocks or knots then you need to bring all the cutting edges sharp regardless of how they compare to each other. Because of this the chains last much longer. If you take the same chain to a grinder and three teeth are nicked down 50% then all the teeth will be ground to 50% of original. the same chain hand sharped would only have a few teeth filed down to 50%. When I sharpen I make sure that I have made the teeth and rakers uniform so as not to pull one way or the other. For certain situations regardless of the condition of teeth it is not practical to hand sharpen twenty chains in a row. For those who spend plenty of time holding a chain saw hand filing skill is very worthwhile. For those who do not want to learn to hand file then they will hire some one to service their saws and chain. Thanks


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## timsmcm (Feb 18, 2022)

It was hard for me to understand the different ways of people. Since I was young I just had a knack for doing things ( jack of all trades master of none) . It was only recently that my wife thought me the error of my ways. She said most people can't do things like that because they just don't want to know or it's not in their mentality to do so. She told me your not a rocket scientist so quit thinking everyone else should be. Not everyone is going to get sharpening. Just life.


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## Philbert (Feb 18, 2022)

timsmcm said:


> Not everyone is going to get sharpening.


They don’t have to be great at it; just good enough. 

For some people, that is having others sharpening their chains for love or money. 

I actually know people who (TRIGGER WARNING!!!) use a chain once, then . . . 

Philbert


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## Howard Justice (Feb 19, 2022)

Ted Jenkins said:


> The reason to hand sharpen is that all the teeth are different. The reason to grind with a grinder is all the teeth are the same. If you have a chain that has hit a few rocks or knots then you need to bring all the cutting edges sharp regardless of how they compare to each other. Because of this the chains last much longer. If you take the same chain to a grinder and three teeth are nicked down 50% then all the teeth will be ground to 50% of original. the same chain hand sharped would only have a few teeth filed down to 50%. When I sharpen I make sure that I have made the teeth and rakers uniform so as not to pull one way or the other. For certain situations regardless of the condition of teeth it is not practical to hand sharpen twenty chains in a row. For those who spend plenty of time holding a chain saw hand filing skill is very worthwhile. For those who do not want to learn to hand file then they will hire some one to service their saws and chain. Thanks


A good word.


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## 5155 (Feb 19, 2022)

Glad I learned with just a file. Made moving to the gadgets easier. Except for the Huskey roller. It does not fit my current Stihl chains, OR, I'm missing something. I have some Husky chains up next and will try again. For now, the roller is in a tool box.

One thing I did early on that helped was to draw 25- and 30-degree lines on top of vise jaws. My hands and eyes follow them well.

The best mentor that helped me, sharpened tooling for a living. Some of what he showed me of saw chain sharpening would start a war if I typed it here due to going against internet sawing protocol.

You need to find the chain AND the system that works for you. But that don't fit todays right here right now mentality.

Edit, Someone mentioned that soft Oregon chain. That was my preferred chain when I was starting out. Now I can file most any brand.


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## Howard Justice (Feb 19, 2022)

Like the idea of stamping vise w angle line.


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## Philbert (Feb 19, 2022)

Howard Justice said:


> Like the idea of stamping vise w angle line.



Use masking tape if you don’t want permanent marks. Or, one of these magnetic dealies that stick to the guide bar:



Philbert


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## 5155 (Feb 19, 2022)

Speed square and a sharpie. Open jaws to bar thickness 1st.


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## thenne1713 (Feb 20, 2022)

Howard Justice said:


> A good word.


TED JENKINS, I am going out on a limb to disagree? NICKS in cutters do not really hurt a chain in cutting ability. BENT cutters will leave gouges/ washboard, so STRAIGHTEN any/ all bent cutters and then grind as normal. NO NEED to shorten all cutters to match 1-2 that maybe shorter, if they balance w/ one on opposite side? This is NOT Like a planer/ jointer, where a raised bead area from a cutter gouge is left on the face finish, even in milling. In fact, the SIDE of a cutter is the only part that affects wood finish, and then only the top 0.025+/- of the cutter side? Anything touched by TOP of cutter is converted to wood chips/ dust? Even a Granberg style or skip/ super skip works well because deviation is offset by same on an alternate cutter. If you are converting a crosscut chain to a ripping chain, you do not have to change full face of cutter angle all at once, you can do it in 3-4 sharpenings to extend chain life. The CHIP that was removed by the cutter will not CARE, LOL  Now, to clarify, I do believe that the LEAST vibration will be all cutters same length, depth gages same.


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## copen (Feb 20, 2022)

5155 said:


> Glad I learned with just a file. Made moving to the gadgets easier. Except for the Huskey roller. It does not fit my current Stihl chains, OR, I'm missing something. I have some Husky chains up next and will try again. For now, the roller is in a tool box.
> 
> One thing I did early on that helped was to draw 25- and 30-degree lines on top of vise jaws. My hands and eyes follow them well.
> 
> ...


I'd like to know the answer to your question about the roller guide as well. Bailey's has three variations for different pitches but far as working with other brands of chains.....good question.


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## Philbert (Feb 20, 2022)

copen said:


> I'd like to know the answer to your question about the roller guide as well.


The Husqvarna roller guide does not physically fit over / straddle some types of STIHL chains or bars. It takes a little work with a file to open up the notches. Plenty of people have done this.

STIHL also makes a variety of roller guides, but they are not as popular.
Philbert


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## copen (Feb 20, 2022)

Philbert said:


> The Husqvarna roller guide does not physically fit over / straddle some types of STIHL chains or bars. It takes a little work with a file to open up the notches.
> 
> 
> Philbert


Thanks. I don't have one, yet, but maybe in the future. My firewood cutters are a MS180 and CS590. Seems like a handy little gadget if they work well. Some folks don't seem to care much for the raker filing feature.


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## Philbert (Feb 20, 2022)

copen said:


> Some folks don't seem to care much for the raker filing feature.


Au contraire! A lot of folks LOVE the ‘progressive’ depth gauge settings! Some will buy the separate gauges just for this feature. 

Browse through the threads below:






STIHL Progressive Depth Gauge Tool


Found these in response to another thread. Do not appear to be available in USA. Anyone familiar with or have experience with them? Might need a member-friend in EU to obtain? Tools for MS-cutting attachment maintenance: File gauge For manual reworking of the depth gauge made from hardened...




www.arboristsite.com










Are FOP really progressive depth raker generators?


I have not used an FOP or their look alikes but, following discussions and some of the images posted in a previous post, I wonder if FOPs are really true progressive raker depth makers after all. So I put the following up for your consideration - it's getting close to ultra geeky (a bit like...




www.arboristsite.com





Philbert


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## copen (Feb 20, 2022)

Philbert said:


> Au contraire! A lot of folks LOVE the ‘progressive’ depth gauge settings! Some will buy the separate gauges just for this feature.
> 
> Browse through the threads below:
> 
> ...


I get it. Some, not all, maybe not even many, don't care for it. I've not tried one so can't give an honest opinion on the tool. This comes from YouTube reviews I watched and purchaser reviews from online purchases when I was trying to get some info on the tool. And this is the Husqvarna combo tool, not the roller by itself with the separate raker gauge.


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## mbrick (Feb 21, 2022)

Pferd chain sharp cs-x.


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## timsmcm (Feb 21, 2022)

Philbert said:


> The Husqvarna roller guide does not physically fit over / straddle some types of STIHL chains or bars. It takes a little work with a file to open up the notches. Plenty of people have done this.
> 
> STIHL also makes a variety of roller guides, but they are not as popular.
> Philbert


Philbert do you like the depth gauge on those little small stihl roller guides


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## pdqdl (Feb 21, 2022)

NorthernMaverick said:


> Couple things I would suggest. View attachment 964865
> 
> Husqvarna Roller guide is the best guide I've used, and most come with a depth gauge attached for checking drag height. Also make sure your files are sharp/ new and of a good brand. Cheap junk files won't give good performance. Grinders are "easy" to use, but I found I can get a chain sharper with a file. Not to mention the troubles that can come from poor use of a grinder, burnt cutters, taking off too much and using up your chain etc. Plus field maintenance is easier once you learn to file properly. Taking 3 chains to the woods, and taking the time to change them, dropping bar nuts in the snow..... You get the picture. What brand of chain are you running?
> Hope this helps.



That's my favorite. I prefer using that guide even to free-hand filing, which I have done for about 30 years now. It's just better and easier.


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## Ted Jenkins (Feb 22, 2022)

thenne1713 said:


> TED JENKINS, I am going out on a limb to disagree? NICKS in cutters do not really hurt a chain in cutting ability. BENT cutters will leave gouges/ washboard, so STRAIGHTEN any/ all bent cutters and then grind as normal. NO NEED to shorten all cutters to match 1-2 that maybe shorter, if they balance w/ one on opposite side? This is NOT Like a planer/ jointer, where a raised bead area from a cutter gouge is left on the face finish, even in milling. In fact, the SIDE of a cutter is the only part that affects wood finish, and then only the top 0.025+/- of the cutter side? Anything touched by TOP of cutter is converted to wood chips/ dust? Even a Granberg style or skip/ super skip works well because deviation is offset by same on an alternate cutter. If you are converting a crosscut chain to a ripping chain, you do not have to change full face of cutter angle all at once, you can do it in 3-4 sharpenings to extend chain life. The CHIP that was removed by the cutter will not CARE, LOL  Now, to clarify, I do believe that the LEAST vibration will be all cutters same length, depth gages same.


I do not see much written here where as to disagree. In general most people running a grinder will grind all the teeth the same whether they are dull or not. However you or people like you will decide some teeth not to be ground to make them all even. That is a common accepted fact. Those that want their chains sharpened in a professional way will take their chains off put them in a bag and drop them off where a shop or person will clean them up for a fee. This process fits for some and not for some. It takes a few minutes to take a chain off of a saw and put another chain back on a saw. From my experience when working for a Stihl dealer several years ago it took close to ten minutes per chain accounting for some time to make a few adjustments to grinder. This process fits well for companies that have multi saw teams working on a job or an individual who is an occasional firewood cutter. Those that want to make their time most effective will grab a file and have a sharp chain in fifteen twenty minutes. In this process an experience person will even out the cutters and rakers with little effort then making chips fly. Thanks


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## Ted Jenkins (Feb 22, 2022)

I think Philbert has stated people need to find out what works best for their situation. I do not see a debate worthy as one system works best for every one. There are many upon many videos that explain technique for setting up a grinder well to achieve a very productive chain. There are plenty of videos that explain how to grab a file and be back making chips fly quick. I think guides and such gadgets not only do not work but mislead people into not understanding what an why they are doing. That is to say there are plenty of folks that have guides and are very happy with them. However if they understood what they were doing they would not need any guide. Thanks


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## Big_Eddy (Feb 22, 2022)

Just a quick addition - the *most useful thing I have learned* (after 25+ years not doing it) is to clamp the bar in a vise when sharpening. In a vise, both hands can be on the file, and the file will travel in a straight line. I used to balance the saw on the bench, and hold the file with one hand while supporting the bar / tooth with the other. NOWHERE near as effective, and the file would flop all over the place.

I like to clamp the bar in the vise with the saw upside down. I prefer it that way, as I am facing toward the saw and don't have to file over the powerhead. (In the field, I keep the saw right side up using the stump vise)


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## Howard Justice (Feb 22, 2022)

Agreed…. Saw this set up in a friends disaster response trailer last week…. “Vise in the field”


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## Ted Jenkins (Feb 22, 2022)

Big_Eddy said:


> Just a quick addition - the *most useful thing I have learned* (after 25+ years not doing it) is to clamp the bar in a vise when sharpening. In a vise, both hands can be on the file, and the file will travel in a straight line. I used to balance the saw on the bench, and hold the file with one hand while supporting the bar / tooth with the other. NOWHERE near as effective, and the file would flop all over the place.
> 
> I like to clamp the bar in the vise with the saw upside down. I prefer it that way, as I am facing toward the saw and don't have to file over the powerhead. (In the field, I keep the saw right side up using the stump vise)


In my opinion there is no other way to sharpen a chain effectively. Screw the vice into a log or stump find a comfortable position to file get it done go back to work. When the vice is secure into a stump put the bar in a balanced position or not too far one way or the other making it difficult to reach both hands on the file then proceed. No one can sharpen quickly with out a vice. For those learning wear gloves to prevent skinned knuckles. Thanks


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## Philbert (Feb 22, 2022)

Big_Eddy said:


> the *most useful thing I have learned* (after 25+ years not doing it) is to clamp the bar in a vise when sharpening. In a vise, both hands can be on the file, and the file will travel in a straight line.





Howard Justice said:


> Saw this set up in a friends disaster response trailer last week…. “Vise in the field”


Agreed. A stable chain is easier to file accurately than a moving one. 

@Howard Justice you might like this Wilton hitch vise for field filing:



I started a few threads on stump vises, and will try to link them here. 

Philbert


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## Philbert (Feb 22, 2022)

OK, here are links to several (!) threads, related to clamping a guide bar when filing a mounted chain, or specialized chain filing vises for chains off the saw. 

They do not include a couple of ‘field expedient’ methods I have used:
- boring a slot through a trunk (or large round) to support and stabilize the saw by the guide bar; and
- ‘noodling’ a groove, about half the height of the guide bar, to similarly hold the saw while filing. 

Philbert 






Tree Machine Filing Clamps


Tree Machine sent me a pair of filing clamps to look at after I commented about them in the Chainmeister thread: http://www.arboristsite.com/forestry-logging-forum/235996.htm Since these clamps can work as a stand-along item, it made sense to post these comments in a separate thread. ***Note...




www.arboristsite.com










Tecomec Stump Vise with Chain Stop


I like stump vises: I like the guide bar and chain held stable when I file, so that I can use both hands to control the file, and so that I don't have to contort my body to hold the saw when sharpening in the field. So I was interested in this one, which has a chain stop / pawl to hold the...




www.arboristsite.com










My new saw chain vise


For many years I used an old saw vise to hold chains for sharpening when they are off the saw. The saw vise was originally intended for holding circular saw blades or hand saws for filing, but it fit my needs pretty well...until the cam finally wore to the point that it would no longer clamp...




www.arboristsite.com










Philbert's Low Tech Filing Vise


Philbert’s Low Tech Filing Vise Background (*NOTE: several original links to this thread were lost. I have tried to replace some of the information) I got interested in a filing vise from threads like these...




www.arboristsite.com










Philbert's Low-er Tech Filing Vise


Philbert's Low-er Tech Filing Vise This was an idea floating around in my head for a while. A filing vice holds saw chain cutters rock solid, for shaping or sharpening, off of the saw. It is not something that everyone wants or needs, but this is an easy-to-make, low cost option for those who...




www.arboristsite.com










I made some chain vises


I have been kicking around the idea for a better than most chain vise and really wanted one for doing drpth gauges coming off the grinder... So here is what I came up with! Upon getting a few of these to fellow as members and a lot of discussion later it was determined a more refined...




www.arboristsite.com


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## Howard Justice (Feb 22, 2022)

Philbert said:


> Agreed. A stable chain is easier to file accurately than a moving one.
> 
> @Howard Justice you might this Wilton hitch vise for field filing:
> View attachment 967266
> ...


Thank you Philbert! Would be eager to see more of these and any links?


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## TheJollyLogger (Feb 22, 2022)

This has been an interesting thread to read, so different from the commercial world...


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## Howard Justice (Feb 22, 2022)

Howard Justice said:


> Thank you Philbert! Would be eager to see more of these and any links?


The Oregon stump vise we have won’t stay put. Legs not long enough and after few mins wobbles loose? Even after pounding w heavy 3 Lb hammer. Stays secure in green oak better than other logs. 
Maybe new thread topic? Best stump vise?


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## Philbert (Feb 22, 2022)

Howard Justice said:


> The Oregon stump vise we have won’t stay put. Legs not long enough and after few mins wobbles loose? Even after pounding w heavy 3 Lb hammer. Stays secure in green oak better than other logs.
> Maybe new thread topic? Best stump vise?


Lots of threads on this ('Search' via Google gets better results than using the A.S. search feature). This is just one of many:





Quick vice to hold saw for filing in the field


I got sick of sharpening my saw on the tailgate using the cable as a support. This fit's in the space between the bed and the tailgate. I've already replaced the wingnut with a coupler and a piece of 3/8 round welded on for a T handle, much more leverage.




www.arboristsite.com





In my experiences, stump vises can work well in end grain (i.e. a 'stump'), but not well in side grain (i.e. the side of a log). I have used a variety, including Oregon, STIHL, Tecomec with the chain stop, Echo, 'no-brand', etc. It is possible to 'beef them up' if needed:



This is a modification someone on 'another site' made for me (I don't have welding capabilities) - not my original idea, but I supplied the parts and he did the heat work.



The noodled log, mentioned earlier.



Filing chain with guide bar plunge cut into a large round:
Bore cut in; work the saw back-and-forth a little to loosen up the slot; file some cutters; move the chain around a little; file some more. Make it any height you want.

If you are working with volunteers at a site, you might want to set any of these up at a 'sharpening station', where you also keep supplies, gear, files, Gatorade, etc.

Philbert


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## fields_mj (Feb 22, 2022)

This is my setup for sharpening in the field. Harbor freight clamp on vise bolted to a piece of angle iron, welded to some 2" Sq tube. My firewood trailer has a receiver welded on the tongue, and I normally use it there. This pic was in Kentucky doing cleanup at the end of December. I made a quick extension out of some scrap I had on hand befor I left so I could get the vise out past the tailgate. All bolts are 1/2" because a 19mm scrench fits them. I added wooden vice jaws and a block of wood at the bottom to keep the freshly sharpened chain from falling onto the steel guide rods when I open the vise up. 

On my last truck, I bolted a frame on the tailgate. The frame had 1/2-13 holes tapped in it to accept the plate that my bench vise is mounted on. I switched to this other setup because the 8" Vice on my welding bench was getting to be too heavy to move all the time  

Oh, and after a few decades of sharpening with round files (and getting pretty good at it), I've decided that the timberline is the easiest sharpening tool to learn.


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## Howard Justice (Feb 22, 2022)

Philbert said:


> Lots of threads on this ('Search' via Google gets better results than using the A.S. search feature). This is just one of many:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Esp like the plunge options! Neat idea!
Screw vise is most interesting! I guess tubing compresses and stops wobble or rotation?


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## Philbert (Feb 22, 2022)

Howard Justice said:


> I guess tubing compresses and stops wobble or rotation?


You are over thinking it! The plastic tubing keeps the lag bolt from ripping holes in my gear bags!

Philbert


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## Howard Justice (Feb 22, 2022)

Philbert said:


> You are over thinking it! The plastic tubing keeps the lag bolt from ripping holes in my gear bags!
> 
> Philbert


Ha ha ….yes I’ve been accused of that before….


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## Oletrapper (Feb 24, 2022)

chuckinnc said:


> I have tried many files & dremel setups but only make powder or sawdust after sharpening a chain, I need the EASIEST, dummy proof way to sharpen a chain. All my chains are 3/8 pico or low profile, I have been looking
> at Stihl 2in1 sharpener, seems to be easiest to learn. Does anyone have a opinion on easiest to use chain sharpener?


I have found that the easiest sharpener is at the reputable dealer that has 1 employee that only sharpens chains. jmho  OT


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## fields_mj (Feb 24, 2022)

Oletrapper said:


> I have found that the easiest sharpener is at the reputable dealer that has 1 employee that only sharpens chains. jmho  OT


For the person who only runs 2 or 3 tanks of fuel through their saw each year, this is probably true. That person won't have the opportunity to sharpen often enough to get good at it. For the person who heats their home with firewood, it takes longer to get out of the vehicle, go inside, drop the chains off, and walk back to the vehicle than it does to actually just sharpen the chain. I've never been able to walk into a store of any kind and be back in the vehicle in less than 5 minutes. It's normally at least 10, especially if I have to speak to someone. Throw in the fact that you have to repeat the process to pick the chains back up again, and the fact that you have to take the chain off the saw, reinstall another one, and I'd estimate that even if you're rotating through 4 different chains, it's still faster to sharpen them yourself. Not to mention the fact that you get a better edge, and a heck of a lot more life out of your chain. Realistically, if you run your saw enough to warrant having 4 chains for the saw, then you're wasting a lot of time and money if you're not sharpening your own chains. 

The other issue with your logic here is that you assume that the "reputable" dealer has a highly skilled technician who, after years of working through his/her apprenticeship program, has finally attained the job title of "professional chainsaw sharpener." Dealers make money selling new saws, and it's VERY rare they can afford to pay any of their technicians a decent wage. If they are lucky, they've stumbled across an older guy who's retired and who's looking for something to do. Even that guy doesn't want to spend all day sharpening chains because it aggravates the arthritis in his hands and wrists. For the overwhelming majority of the dealerships, they provide the service because it's expected of them, and it gets delegated to the lowest guy on the totem pole who would otherwise be pushing the broom. 

To each their own. Not trying to tell anyone how they should do something. Just make sure you have all the information so you can make the best decision for you.


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## Oletrapper (Feb 24, 2022)

fields_mj said:


> For the person who only runs 2 or 3 tanks of fuel through their saw each year, this is probably true. That person won't have the opportunity to sharpen often enough to get good at it. For the person who heats their home with firewood, it takes longer to get out of the vehicle, go inside, drop the chains off, and walk back to the vehicle than it does to actually just sharpen the chain. I've never been able to walk into a store of any kind and be back in the vehicle in less than 5 minutes. It's normally at least 10, especially if I have to speak to someone. Throw in the fact that you have to repeat the process to pick the chains back up again, and the fact that you have to take the chain off the saw, reinstall another one, and I'd estimate that even if you're rotating through 4 different chains, it's still faster to sharpen them yourself. Not to mention the fact that you get a better edge, and a heck of a lot more life out of your chain. Realistically, if you run your saw enough to warrant having 4 chains for the saw, then you're wasting a lot of time and money if you're not sharpening your own chains.
> 
> The other issue with your logic here is that you assume that the "reputable" dealer has a highly skilled technician who, after years of working through his/her apprenticeship program, has finally attained the job title of "professional chainsaw sharpener." Dealers make money selling new saws, and it's VERY rare they can afford to pay any of their technicians a decent wage. If they are lucky, they've stumbled across an older guy who's retired and who's looking for something to do. Even that guy doesn't want to spend all day sharpening chains because it aggravates the arthritis in his hands and wrists. For the overwhelming majority of the dealerships, they provide the service because it's expected of them, and it gets delegated to the lowest guy on the totem pole who would otherwise be pushing the broom.
> 
> To each their own. Not trying to tell anyone how they should do something. Just make sure you have all the information so you can make the best decision for you.


Geeeeesh! All that for a post that was simply trying to be humorous. But then, some people wouldn't know humor if it hit um upside the head. Just saying. OT


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## pdqdl (Feb 24, 2022)

Ted Jenkins said:


> ...No one can sharpen quickly with out a vice. ... Thanks



I can. I've used 'em, but never formed the habit. Your hands do the filing, not the vice. 

If you are pushing so hard on the chain that you are forcibly needing a vise to hold down the saw, I'd like to suggest that you buy some sharper files, sharpen more often, and quit getting the chain so dull you have to work that hard to keep it sharp.


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## ATH (Feb 24, 2022)

pdqdl said:


> I can. I've used 'em, but never formed the habit. Your hands do the filing, not the vice.
> 
> If you are pushing so hard on the chain that you are forcibly needing a vise to hold down the saw, I'd like to suggest that you buy some sharper files, sharpen more often, and quit getting the chain so dull you have to work that hard to keep it sharp.


One of the loggers I work with finds a smaller diameter tree and plunges the saw in (ripping cut/upright/parallel to the trunk - not like he's cutting it down) at about stomach height and uses that to hold his saw while he sharpens. He's pretty efficient at it!


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## ATH (Feb 24, 2022)

Philbert said:


> Lots of threads on this ('Search' via Google gets better results than using the A.S. search feature). This is just one of many:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I was going to buy a stump vice to do this. I was thinking I'll take out one of the bolts that holds the bed liner on the tailgate and use the same threading for a bolt on the end of the vise. That would make it easy to put it in and take it out. Then I found this vice for $13 at Lee Valley

I'll drill through the center of this and put a bolt in that will go into one of those same holes on the tailgate. (I'll make so I can tighten with the scrench - alter the head if needed).

Thanks for the inspiration. I've been wanting something simple to hold the saw more steady on the tailgate and think this will work great.


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## Philbert (Feb 24, 2022)

ATH said:


> Thanks for the inspiration. I've been wanting something simple to hold the saw more steady on the tailgate and think this will work great.


Post some pictures when you do!

Philbert


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## Howard Justice (Feb 25, 2022)

ATH said:


> One of the loggers I work with finds a smaller diameter tree and plunges the saw in (ripping cut/upright/parallel to the trunk - not like he's cutting it down) at about stomach height and uses that to hold his saw while he sharpens. He's pretty efficient at it!


Thx. Will try that!


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## sundance (Feb 25, 2022)

ATH said:


> One of the loggers I work with finds a smaller diameter tree and plunges the saw in (ripping cut/upright/parallel to the trunk - not like he's cutting it down) at about stomach height and uses that to hold his saw while he sharpens. He's pretty efficient at it!


A bit hard on the trees.


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## ATH (Feb 25, 2022)

sundance said:


> A bit hard on the trees.


Most woods can spare a 5" diameter low grade tree. Oh...and he's *logging* the woods. Some of those are going to get smashed by a falling tree anyhow. I haven't asked, but he's pretty good about taking care of the woods, so he probably picks trees that are coming out anyhow.

But yeah, I wouldn't do that in a residential yard to a tree being maintained!


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## sundance (Feb 25, 2022)

ATH said:


> Most woods can spare a 5" diameter low grade tree. Oh...and he's *logging* the woods. Some of those are going to get smashed by a falling tree anyhow. I haven't asked, but he's pretty good about taking care of the woods, so he probably picks trees that are coming out anyhow.
> 
> But yeah, I wouldn't do that in a residential yard to a tree being maintained!


Understand he is thoughtful about using the technique. Just wanted to mention for all the others reading to make sure they consider it.


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## Ted Jenkins (Feb 25, 2022)

Philbert said:


> Post some pictures when you do!
> 
> Philbert


Philbert I am sure sure you could set up a 12 volt chain grinder but do not know how big that market would be. Why now design a system where as the chain could still be on the saw but get sharpened. Just thought. Thanks


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## Philbert (Feb 25, 2022)

Ted Jenkins said:


> Philbert I am sure sure you could set up a 12 volt chain grinder but do not know how big that market would be. Why now design a system where as the chain could still be on the saw but get sharpened. Just thought. Thanks


Tecomec and Oregon used to sell a 4” diameter, 12V chain grinder that clamped onto the guide bar, similar to how a Granberg file guide does. I think it was popular with guys that do chainsaw milling, because they don’t like to take their rig apart to sharpen.

There was one on a local CraigLlist ad about a year ago, that I almost bought just for my “collection“.

Philbert


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## Philbert (Feb 25, 2022)

ATH said:


> One of the loggers I work with finds a smaller diameter tree and plunges the saw in (ripping cut/upright/parallel to the trunk - not like he's cutting it down) at about stomach height and uses that to hold his saw while he sharpens. He's pretty efficient at it!





sundance said:


> A bit hard on the trees.


I mentioned something similar above. I sometimes bore cut into a stump, or into a large round, to hold the saw by the guide bar when filing.

If the tree is going to be cut for firewood anyways, it’s not a big deal. Just plan ahead, and cut that tree last!

Philbert


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## Ted Jenkins (Feb 25, 2022)

Philbert said:


> Tecomec and Oregon used to sell a 4” diameter, 12V chain grinder that clamped onto the guide bar, similar to how a Granberg file guide does. I think it was popular with guys that do chainsaw milling, because they don’t like to take their rig apart to sharpen.
> 
> There was one on a local CraigLlist ad about a year ago, that I almost bought just for my “collection“.
> 
> Philbert


I would say for those who want to get their chains sharp in the field that would be win win. A reality for me is when I am cutting for more than a casual afternoon there is not a chance for any house hold current. Thanks


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## BisonSkinner (Feb 26, 2022)

pdqdl said:


> Your hands do the filing, not the vice.


Agreed. I learned to sharpen without a vice, and now its awkward to work with a vice where my arms usually sit on the tailgate of the truck. Everybody has their right way to sharpen. I prefer a freehand file, and that has come from a lot of buggered up chains and learning the hard way.


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## Philbert (Feb 27, 2022)

BisonSkinner said:


> that has come from a lot of buggered up chains and learning the hard way.


Trying to avoid that . . . 

Philbert


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## isaaccarlson (Mar 19, 2022)

None of them are dummy proof. Some are better than others, but it still comes down to understanding how the tooth cuts and how the file removes material and shapes the tooth. I have seen guys butcher chains with bare files, file guides, file plates, clamp on jigs, dremels, and expensive grinders. I usually take a few chains and swap them out and then grind when I get home. I used to file exclusively, but after hitting so many pieces of steel, concrete, and rocks in trees, there was a need for a grinder. Now I don't do so much tree removal so I should go back to filing. We'll see.


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## chipper1 (Mar 19, 2022)

The Shooters Apprentice said:


> file out under the tooth first, take out the gullet, and the file the cutting edge from underneath. Down, back, and up.


The gullet helps hold the file at the proper height to set the side plate angle/the hook. If you remove the gullet first on a newer chin then you will have to constantly hold the file up against the top plate. 
That being said, you do need to remove a very small portion of the back of the gullet, but not as low as I clean them up when done filing the cutter unless you are further into the life of s chain.



Big_Eddy said:


> I’m a dummy and the Husky roller guides work best for me.
> This chain has cut 68 cords (real cords) of blocks so far. My goal is to hit 75 before I retire it.
> Hand filed with the Husky roller guide every one or two tanks fuel and once on the grinder to even out the teeth. (I tend to shorten left teeth more than rights)
> 
> ...


I like them a lot, and I use them on chains that I get that someone thought getting the gullet hogged out was going to make their saw cut faster, it holds the file up onto the cutter nicely.
I've never had a chain last that long, I filed one this week down from 80% to 10%(if you stop at the witness marks), but I had to flush cut a bunch of stumps. Only touched it up once while cutting the trees down and limbing them, cottonwood and couple pine so it was softer wood.


5155 said:


> The best mentor that helped me, sharpened tooling for a living. Some of what he showed me of saw chain sharpening would start a war if I typed it here due to going against internet sawing protocol.


That's great you had someone to stand beside and learn.
Waiting to here about he shared .


copen said:


> Some folks don't seem to care much for the raker filing feature.


It's funny when you watch a video on how to use the roller guide and then when it comes time to do the rakers they set it aside . What they don't realize is how well they work for setting them to the proper height. The stand alone version is a much easier tool to hold and they last much longer though.


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## SteveInOregon (Apr 13, 2022)

4 & 4 over the 2in1 ....
What I mean is keep 4 brand new or even brand new plus a bench grinder razor sharp touched up set of 4 new chains at your local saw shop, and the other new 4 chains with you.
Once you get down to one last new chain in the field go to town and trade the 3 dull ones for the 4 new ones at the shop.
In the mean time learn to hand file just because hand filing is a great skill to have.

I mostly hand file / touch up in the field with a stump vise, but I also have my "rocked" chains at the local pro saw shop chains ready and waiting for me.
Hope this was helpful


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## TheJollyLogger (Apr 14, 2022)

SteveInOregon said:


> 4 & 4 over the 2in1 ....
> What I mean is keep 4 brand new or even brand new plus a bench grinder razor sharp touched up set of 4 new chains at your local saw shop, and the other new 4 chains with you.
> Once you get down to one last new chain in the field go to town and trade the 3 dull ones for the 4 new ones at the shop.
> In the mean time learn to hand file just because hand filing is a great skill to have.
> ...


What is a "rocked" chain, exactally?


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## preventec47 (Apr 14, 2022)

I prefer the little eleven dollar Oregon guide accessory when sharpening by hand ( Go to AMAZON and search for Oregon Chainsaw Sharpening Guide )
and I dont think you can beat it if you are only cutting wood and hit the ground
every now and then. If you are hitting rocks and steel and concrete I think you
need a grinder as trying to recover from that kind of damage is too difficult
to do with round files by hand. The Oregon accessory assures that you are cutting
the edge of the tooth and not just grinding deep into the chain and missing the tooth
edge. My favorite workshop accessory is the tailgate of my pickup truck. Perfect platform to sharpen your saw in about five minutes without having to remove the
chain. One thing that does help a bit is to tighten the chain a little more than needed
so the chain is held steady while you file. Also, this could be controversial.... Every now and then I take a loose chain that I have removed from the saw and use a bench
grinder to grind down the rakes between the teeth. This of course takes away ALL
of the "LOW KICKBACK" features (be careful) of the saw but boy does the saw really grab when you want it too. Improves dramatically the plunge cutting if you ever need to do it. BTW. The great thing about the OREGON chain saw guide is you take it with you into the woods and use it right beside the tree you are cutting. Just takes a few minutes for a quick touch up while kneeling on the ground.


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## pdqdl (Apr 14, 2022)

TheJollyLogger said:


> What is a "rocked" chain, exactally?



Any chain massively dulled by striking a hard object, generally a rock. If you hand file, it is a major effort to overcome the damage, so you send it out to someone with a grinder.


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## TheJollyLogger (Apr 14, 2022)

pdqdl said:


> Any chain massively dulled by striking a hard object, generally a rock. If you hand file, it is a major effort to overcome the damage, so you send it out to someone with a grinder.


Yeah, wanted to see if Steve defined it that way. I'm going to suggest if you are needing to carry 4 chains to get through the day you should look at your cutting techniques...


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## chipper1 (Apr 14, 2022)

TheJollyLogger said:


> Yeah, wanted to see if Steve defined it that way. I'm going to suggest if you are needing to carry 4 chains to get through the day you should look at your cutting techniques...


Maybe, when I cut hazard trees in yards with targets I usually have two saws, the one I'm running and another with a sharp chain and ready to go in case I hit something. There have been many times when cutting in general that I've damaged two new chains in the same wood(different locations not the same cut) as all I had was new chains . But the show must go on and filing a chain that hits metal isn't much fun, and I enjoy filing.


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## SteveInOregon (Apr 14, 2022)

TheJollyLogger said:


> What is a "rocked" chain, exactally?


Hit / touched a rock / gravel


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## Philbert (Apr 14, 2022)

TheJollyLogger said:


> I'm going to suggest if you are needing to carry 4 chains to get through the day you should look at your cutting techniques...


Depends on what you are cutting. I do disaster clean up, and tree debris is mixed with EVERYTHING. 

Also watched a local tree service find multiple concrete ’plugs’ doing an urban removal.

That stuff does not buff out with a few swipes of a file. Some guys carry multiple saws. Some carry extra chains that can be repaired at home / back at a shop. 

Philbert


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## TheJollyLogger (Apr 14, 2022)

Philbert said:


> Depends on what you are cutting. I do disaster clean up, and tree debris is mixed with EVERYTHING.
> 
> Also watched a local tree service find multiple concrete ’plugs’ doing an urban removal.
> 
> ...


True, but I have worked with a lot of guys that consider hitting dirt "inevitable", and that just isn't so. So many times just poor technique and laziness.
I took over a crew that was the worst about that one time, and solved it within a week. Files were brought out at lunch, and the end of the day. Everyone was assigned a saw, and once you started spitting sawdust you were on brush dragging duty. The improvement in skills was fast.


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## Philbert (Apr 14, 2022)

TheJollyLogger said:


> True, but I have worked with a lot of guys that consider hitting dirt "inevitable",


That clearly is a knowledge/ skill development thing. 

Philbert


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## TheJollyLogger (Apr 14, 2022)

Philbert said:


> That clearly is a knowledge/ skill development thing.
> 
> Philbert


Gotta remember, I'm from Texas. Every kid we've ever hired said he knew all about guns and chainsaws... after watching them that first day running a chainsaw I certainly didn't want to be anywhere near them with a loaded gun...


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## Philbert (Apr 14, 2022)

I work with volunteers. Wanna guess how many ‘know’ things?

In fairness, I was handed a chainsaw at 16; shown how to start it, and told to only use mixed fuel. That was it. 

Only many years later (surviving on experience and luck), did I start reading, asking questions, watching others and videos, etc. I am still open to learning, although, formal training in chainsaw use can be hard to find, unless employed in a related field. 

Forums like this help. I may not agree with everything from everyone here, but I really appreciate honest perspectives from genuine experiences. 

Thanks!

Philbert


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## timsmcm (Apr 14, 2022)

Philbert said:


> I work with volunteers. Wanna guess how many ‘know’ things?
> 
> In fairness, I was handed a chainsaw at 16; shown how to start it, and told to only use mixed fuel. That was it.
> 
> ...


Here Here


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## pdqdl (Apr 14, 2022)

chipper1 said:


> Maybe, when I cut hazard trees in yards with targets I usually have two saws, the one I'm running and another with a sharp chain and ready to go in case I hit something. There have been many times when cutting in general that I've damaged two new chains in the same wood(different locations not the same cut) as all I had was new chains . But the show must go on and filing a chain that hits metal isn't much fun, and I enjoy filing.



I trashed two chains earlier this week. A rock was imbedded invisibly in the middle of a stump I was cutting.

What knucklehead suggested previously that an experienced operator didn't need extra chains? _I got some news for you_...


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## pdqdl (Apr 14, 2022)

Philbert said:


> ...In fairness, I was handed a chainsaw at 16; shown how to start it, and told to only use mixed fuel. That was it.
> 
> Only many years later (surviving on experience and luck), did I start reading, asking questions, watching others and videos, etc. I am still open to learning, although, formal training in chainsaw use can be hard to find, unless employed in a related field.
> 
> ...



Same here, only I didn't even get that much instruction. I bought a saw, and just figured it out.


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## TheJollyLogger (Apr 14, 2022)

pdqdl said:


> I trashed two chains earlier this week. A rock was imbedded invisibly in the middle of a stump I was cutting.
> 
> What knucklehead suggested previously that an experienced operator didn't need extra chains? _I got some news for you_...


Yeah, so one day out of 100, lol, but I know you don't make a habit of rocking a chain


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## SteveInOregon (Apr 14, 2022)

TheJollyLogger said:


> Yeah, wanted to see if Steve defined it that way. I'm going to suggest if you are needing to carry 4 chains to get through the day you should look at your cutting techniques...


I don't " need" 4 chains, I just 
like to have redundancy. 

Many times I use one chain for months, then I get farm yards trees with hiden nails, barbed wire, bullets etc.... Plus my customers want the stumps taken down to ground level and hidden gravel / rocks can be imbedded in the trunk flare.....

I carry 2 extra 9 mm mags along with my EDC carry. 2 is 1, 1 is none


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## SteveInOregon (Apr 14, 2022)

TheJollyLogger said:


> Yeah, so one day out of 100, lol, but I know you don't make a habit of rocking a chain


Bingo


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## pdqdl (Apr 14, 2022)

TheJollyLogger said:


> Yeah, so one day out of 100, lol, but I know you don't make a habit of rocking a chain



Not if I can help it. Kinda dulled one today, flush cutting in a mulch bed next to a bank. (of America)

BTW: You got that training the crew thing about right. Except... What do you do when your groundie would rather remain a brushdragger, and just let you do all the cutting?


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## TheJollyLogger (Apr 14, 2022)

pdqdl said:


> Not if I can help it. Kinda dulled one today, flush cutting in a mulch bed next to a bank. (of America)
> 
> BTW: You got that training the crew thing about right. Except... What do you do when your groundie would rather remain a brushdragger, and just let you do all the cutting?


Are you kidding me?!? Let him drag brush, lol.


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## chipper1 (Apr 14, 2022)

pdqdl said:


> Not if I can help it. Kinda dulled one today, flush cutting in a mulch bed next to a bank. (of America)
> 
> BTW: You got that training the crew thing about right. Except... What do you do when your groundie would rather remain a brushdragger, and just let you do all the cutting?


Stop buying stihl ultra mix


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## firekindler (Apr 15, 2022)

chipper1 said:


> The gullet helps hold the file at the proper height to set the side plate angle/the hook. If you remove the gullet first on a newer chin then you will have to constantly hold the file up against the top plate.
> That being said, you do need to remove a very small portion of the back of the gullet, but not as low as I clean them up when done filing the cutter unless you are further into the life of s chain.
> 
> 
> ...


I don't stop at the witness marks. I keep cutting until a few of the cutters break off. As long as you use the progressive method of raker maintenance it cuts well enough until you lose enough cutters that it doesn't anymore.


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## TheJollyLogger (Apr 15, 2022)

firekindler said:


> I don't stop at the witness marks. I keep cutting until a few of the cutters break off. As long as you use the progressive method of raker maintenance it cuts well enough until you lose enough cutters that it doesn't anymore.


Stay away from my saws...


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## Tedster2 (Apr 18, 2022)

Yesssss, texas is an interesting country to try and live in. It's been difficult getting anything done here since I don't speak Texan. Lol. And now there is no training required to carry. Unless you hunt, then if you were born after 1966 you have to take a safety class...for your rifle...but not your handgun.


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## Tedster2 (Apr 18, 2022)

firekindler said:


> I don't stop at the witness marks. I keep cutting until a few of the cutters break off. As long as you use the progressive method of raker maintenance it cuts well enough until you lose enough cutters that it doesn't anymore.


How are the dremel sharpeners?


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## ATH (Apr 18, 2022)

Tedster2 said:


> How are the dremel sharpeners?


I've never had much luck with them.


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## TRTermite (Apr 18, 2022)

Ted Jenkins said:


> I think Philbert has stated people need to find out what works best for their situation. I do not see a debate worthy as one system works best for every one. There are many upon many videos that explain technique for setting up a grinder well to achieve a very productive chain. There are plenty of videos that explain how to grab a file and be back making chips fly quick. I think guides and such gadgets not only do not work but mislead people into not understanding what an why they are doing. That is to say there are plenty of folks that have guides and are very happy with them. However if they understood what they were doing they would not need any guide. Thanks


As a Fella gets Older the eyes are open but don't see as well . Way back there some one said good Lighting. I always filed with a bare tang file and no gadgetry fast forward (Shocking how fast that is) to now and reading glasses and a gadget (slides on top of the tooth and raker) fastened to the file Keeps me from slipping and slopping up the sharpening Job. Most relevant up to this post (IMHO) Is KNOW what the chain should look like when done but don't forget to asses what it needs before you start. This has been a good thread.


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## TheJollyLogger (Apr 18, 2022)

Tedster2 said:


> How are the dremel sharpeners?


The problem with the Dremel is the sharpeners... as you grind it wears away, very fast, and the diameter shrinks, so your results are very inconsistent. If they had diamond sharpeners, and maybe they do now, I haven't used one in a long time, then it wouldn't be bad for a field fix on a damaged chain. The other problem is you are basically free handing, even with the little guide, and it is very easy to remove too much metal.


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## Philbert (Apr 18, 2022)

Left Coast Supplies had ABN ‘stones’ available for a while, that fit Dremel, and similar sharpeners. LCS is gone, but maybe someone still sells them?

*EDIT- In case folks are not familiar with it, I should explain that ‘ABN’ is similar to ‘CBN’: a synthetic abrasive bonded to a metal core, which wears very slowly, so the diameter of the grinding stone effectively does not charge *

Philbert


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## pdqdl (Apr 18, 2022)

TheJollyLogger said:


> The problem with the Dremel is the sharpeners... as you grind it wears away, very fast, and the diameter shrinks, so your results are very inconsistent. If they had diamond sharpeners, and maybe they do now, I haven't used one in a long time, then it wouldn't be bad for a field fix on a damaged chain. The other problem is you are basically free handing, even with the little guide, and it is very easy to remove too much metal.



I've used diamond bits, but they were low quality and didn't last very long. Still... They were better than the carborundum bits that wore down too fast.

CBN bits would be good, as would a carbide milling bit. You'ld have to be light touched with a milling bit though!


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## Ted Jenkins (Apr 18, 2022)

There are hundreds of videos on how to sharpen by hand and what chain should look like. Set aside a hour three times a week and get started. Do not plan that it should look good or work. Just get started. After a couple of failures you will learn. Do not worry about the rakers at first. Compare to a new chain. I am not going to make a video yet. Start with just a reasonable consistent angle then try to lift up enough to have a sharp edge on the cutters. Then try to take a swipe on the rakers. Soon you will have big chips. It can be rewarding. Thanks


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## timsmcm (Apr 18, 2022)

Do the sharpening rotary tools for chain saw spin slower than the dremel tool? Because there is no way I would use a standard dremel tool for chainsaw work. It spins way too fast for that purpose.


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## Philbert (Apr 18, 2022)

My Granberg 12V sharpeners say 22,000 RPM. 

My 120V Dremel tools are variable speed (5,000 to 30,000 or 32,000 RPM, depending on the model). 

Philbert


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## Philbert (Apr 18, 2022)

Cheap, fine, diamond stone on left (‘EZE-LAP’); coarser ABN stone on right. 

The fine stone might be okay for polishing (?), but will not remove material as well as the coarser stone. 

Philbert


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## jolj (Apr 19, 2022)

I only do hand sharpen, just like my knife.


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## timsmcm (Apr 20, 2022)

I really think those rpms are way to high for grinding metal teeth. It would be way better at somewhere around 1000 to 1200 rims. The stones would last longer.


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## torch (Apr 20, 2022)

chuckinnc said:


> I have tried many files & dremel setups but only make powder or sawdust after sharpening a chain, I need the EASIEST, dummy proof way to sharpen a chain. All my chains are 3/8 pico or low profile, I have been looking
> at Stihl 2in1 sharpener, seems to be easiest to learn. Does anyone have a opinion on easiest to use chain sharpener?


The easiest way is to take them in and have them sharpened by a service. Not the cheapest, perhaps, but if you are either a homeowner who needs a few sharpened each year OR a business paying skilled labour rates for a climber/faller to sharpen chains, it might be cheaper in the long run.


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## pioneerguy600 (Apr 20, 2022)

Hand filing is the best but it takes time to learn so there are very few in todays world that will ever spend the time to learn how to hand file, the Stihl two in one has proven itself to be a good alternative to a free hand file sharpening with the guys I cut with. I started filing chains long before any guides were popular and even to this day I will try teaching others but few will ever take the time to learn or practice to get even close to a good cutting chain.


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## Philbert (Apr 20, 2022)

timsmcm said:


> I really think those rpms are way to high for grinding metal teeth. It would be way better at somewhere around 1000 to 1200 rims. The stones would last longer.


They are high speed tools, like modern chainsaws. They take off little bits in rapid succession, providing a smooth, fast cut. At slow speeds, they grab, jerk, and jump around, leaving a rougher surface.

Philbert


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## blades (Apr 20, 2022)

I think we lost chuckinit on the 2nd page.


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## Philbert (Apr 20, 2022)

blades said:


> I think we lost chuckinit on the 2nd page.


His loss. 

Philbert


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## Campbellcontractlogging (Apr 20, 2022)

The Shooters Apprentice said:


> Round file. I prefer one size bigger then recommended, but that’s just me.
> Sit down and wear out a couple chains learning how to sharpen them.
> 
> file out under the tooth first, take out the gullet, and the file the cutting edge from underneath. Down, back, and up.
> ...


He’s right


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## fields_mj (Apr 21, 2022)

timsmcm said:


> I really think those rpms are way to high for grinding metal teeth. It would be way better at somewhere around 1000 to 1200 rims. The stones would last longer.


Not even close. You're confusing cutting with grinding. With sanding/grinding steel, especially high carbon/tool steel, you need really high rpm to get good results. So long as the stone is balanced well, run it as fast as you can. Beyond that, it's about matching the pressure with the type of abrasive material being used so that it breaks down (stays sharp) at the correct rate, and limiting the amount of time so that you're not over heating the steel. Unless you've really rocked the chain, it only takes a second or so on each tooth to sharpen a pretty dull tooth. Since the chain likely has some bar oil residue on it, the tooth will start smoking long before you start affecting its temper.


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