# Amateur taking too big of a top?



## 137cc (Apr 22, 2015)

Action happens a little over 5 mins in. I'm not completely sure what he was trying to do, but it looks like he tried to take way to big of a top.


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## Zale (Apr 22, 2015)

I would agree, He was also probably one handing it to. All the time he spent cutting up there tells me he really wasn't sure what he was doing.


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## Knobby57 (Apr 22, 2015)

Big top and poor rope work . It would have been fine if he just dropped the top and not had it rigged poorly 


Sent from my phone when I should be working


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## Knobby57 (Apr 22, 2015)

Nope I was wrong. Just watched more . Crap ass saw hardly ran . And he either did not notch the tree or cut the hinge because it spun off the spar 


Sent from my phone when I should be working


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## Sean80 (Apr 23, 2015)

Wow a bunch of mistakes there. That sucks and is pretty scary to listen to. At least they got him down fairly quick.


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## sawinredneck (Apr 24, 2015)

The saw should never have been up there the way it ran!
They should have let the top run on the line rather than had it tied static, that was the biggest mistake. Rather than having the top run down, it loaded the top of the tree creating the spring effect we saw. Once the tree was loaded it was over, he lost control of the saw and is lucky he wasn't flung from the tree!


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## jomoco (Apr 25, 2015)

Each climber makes the decision whether or not to put his life in the hands of his rope man.

Having spent the bulk of my climbing career as an independent sub-contract climber, whose ground crew varies with each company I sub for, I make it a firm rule to never rely on amateur roper's to keep me safe up top, if that means taking smaller pieces that won't send me for a ride regardless of whether the roper lets it run or not, so be it. An even better option's using a Speedline with a redirect at the base, so even if they're too green to get out of harm's way in the LZ? No one gets hurt.

This accident looks to me as though there were amateurs on both ends, in the tree and on the ground running the rope.

I seriously doubt I'd try to catch a top that big even with a pro rope man running my Hobbs below me.

Vid quality's so poor it's hard to say exactly what happened, a hockled or snagged lowering line that wasn't laid out properly's a common mistake ropers make dealing with tall trees requiring hundreds of feet of lowering line.

jomoco


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## miko0618 (Apr 28, 2015)

If things are consistent throughout the day, I'll trust my ground guy letting stuff run. If the weight is unknown or something sketchy, I tie it off as slack free as possible. And tie it as close to the notch as possible too.


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## fishercat (May 3, 2015)

Cheapness and inexperience hurt


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## ronnyb (May 4, 2015)

If I don't make it tell my wife I love her. Classic.


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## Greener (May 17, 2015)

I am not trying to second guess or armchair QB but it must be a topper's golden rule to stop that saw when the kerf starts to open in the back cut and the top starts to go, chain brake, off switch, whatever. Even if the climber goes for a ride due to any other number of mistakes, the bloodspill is kept to a minimum.


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## nk14zp (May 17, 2015)

If yer going to be stupid ya gota be tuff.


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## lone wolf (May 17, 2015)

137cc said:


> Action happens a little over 5 mins in. I'm not completely sure what he was trying to do, but it looks like he tried to take way to big of a top.



Not really too big of a top just did everything wrong.


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## RajElectric (May 19, 2015)

I rarely work with any sort of experienced ground crew, leaves me to cut everything small. Often I'll leave some limbs to reduce sway and gives me somewhere to sit while I wait.


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## ropensaddle (May 20, 2015)

Small is how I fly unless bombing or static load to adjacent anchor point. I have no problem with heights I'm a tree climber so I go to the top. Blocking large tops will at some point hurt you as too many things can and will happen when the load is caught.


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## Hddnis (May 22, 2015)

As soon as the top moves, even if you're not roping it down, saw gets shut off and out of the way. That is of course assuming a proper face and hinge, if you don't have that you've already messed up.



Mr. HE


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## lone wolf (May 22, 2015)

Hddnis said:


> As soon as the top moves, even if you're not roping it down, saw gets shut off and out of the way. That is of course assuming a proper face and hinge, if you don't have that you've already messed up.
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. HE


Thats right keep you finger on the shut off and kill it ASAP!


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## 137cc (May 22, 2015)

ropensaddle said:


> Small is how I fly unless bombing or static load to adjacent anchor point. I have no problem with heights I'm a tree climber so I go to the top. Blocking large tops will at some point hurt you as too many things can and will happen when the load is caught.



Completely agree, it's not uncommon that I will climb a tree until its only 4-5" around the bole before I catch the top. Having a good rope man who knows how to let it run is probably the most important part. And I've found that groundies handle smaller tops much better than bigger ones.


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## brockhaskins (Jun 22, 2015)

Big piece bog problem small piece small problem


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## lone wolf (Jun 22, 2015)

brockhaskins said:


> Big piece bog problem small piece small problem


No experience and scared to climb higher big piece and more dangerous.


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## brockhaskins (Jun 22, 2015)

Yeah I've had some new guys asking to take the top every couple feet because they were scared to go higher. Also taken them that big before without any problems but always go smaller these days. Even good grounder seem to lock stuff up from time to time. I guess it looks scary when it's coming down at you.


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## Greenclimber (Jun 27, 2015)

He was cutting out of his power zone. Looks about shoulder or head level. Also looks like he had 1 hand on the saw. Once the top started to fall he should have shut off the saw and engaged the break. 

Also, tying a turner kit is a sure way to lose whatever limb/appendage is below where it was tied. Last resort, and best to tie directly above the cut, and not way above the cut. Otherwise, direct pressure. I'm not sure how bad he was bleeding or cut. Not sure if he lost his hand. I'm just hoping he survived and has a speedy recovery.

Sounds scary.


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## Maineiac (Aug 15, 2015)

The whole operation was comprised of amateurs, from the climber (possibly the biggest amateur, clearly no chainsaw skills) to the rest of the "crew." I'm pretty sure they were using steel cable with a choker to rig that top (listen at 0:26 he says "gotta make sure the cable is not in my way"); who knows what the hell they had it hooked to; there's no way it was on a lowering device. Aside from the obvious issue that these guys tackled a project that was way over their head, what the hell is wrong with homeowners who hire guys like this? Honestly it's an insult to the profession. You can't blame knuckleheads like this for wanting to go out and a make a few bucks, but for someone to entrust the safety of their home/property with a bunch of goons to save a little bit of money really chaffs at me. I hate to admit it, but any time I lose a job to a "fly-by-nighter" (because their price was way lower) and I notice a broken fence or window after the fact (have seen it a few times), it's hard for me to feel bad for the homeowner. It's really refreshing when you get customers that respect the arborist/treework profession, and don't choose a contractor solely based on price. One of the best feelings is when I contract a job in a multi-bid situation, and I know that I came in higher than another/other bidder(s).


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## BuckmasterStumpGrinding (Dec 8, 2015)

Another mistake not pointed out yet was that the rigging line was ran the same way the top fell and increased the shock load. If the rigging line was ran to the base of the tree the ride would have been marginally less traumatic. If the rigging like was opposite the way he dropped the top he would have had a shake but the tree would not have sprung nearly as far.


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## murphy4trees (Jan 15, 2016)

another example of poor falling skills being a safety issue


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