# DOT Safety Audit



## JNGWC&Tree (Sep 15, 2010)

DOT new entrant "Safety Audit"; Have any of you been through this. What should I expect? 

All the info I can find is geared around truckers, not service vehicles.


----------



## jefflovstrom (Sep 15, 2010)

Do you have a chip truck, chipper, boom,? They will want to see your daily pre-trip inspection check list, your BIT inspections, maintenance records. I'm sure they are tougher in California than where you are, but I don't know your state. 
Jeff


----------



## pdqdl (Sep 15, 2010)

...log books (if required), Daily travel & mileage records for each truck, federal proof of insurance form, random drug testing program, driver's violation records (updated regularly!), And WHATEVER YOU DO, don't fail to have a PRE-hiring drug test for every CDL driver.

You will get a $2000 fine for hiring a CDL driver without drug testing before hiring. Did you forget to do that? FIRE THEM ALL. NOW!

Then go test everybody and re-hire. It would look better if you didn't re-hire everybody on the same day.

This advice is based on my experience from an audit done after I got my DOT number. The rules are very likely to be different if you are just starting out.


----------



## jefflovstrom (Sep 15, 2010)

pdqdl said:


> ...log books (if required), Daily travel & mileage records for each truck, federal proof of insurance form, random drug testing program, driver's violation records (updated regularly!), And WHATEVER YOU DO, don't fail to have a PRE-hiring drug test for every CDL driver.
> 
> You will get a $2000 fine for hiring a CDL driver without drug testing before hiring. Did you forget to do that? FIRE THEM ALL. NOW!
> 
> ...



Good post, Pretty Damn Quick
Jeff


----------



## pdqdl (Sep 16, 2010)

It was pretty easy. I wrote all that list off the top of my head.

It has been several years since Mr. Government came to help me, and my ass still hurts from the lack of lubrication.

Yes. They fined me $2000 for hiring one man, and not having a drug test to prove that he was drug free before I hired him. I could have been testing him every day after that, and it wouldn't have mattered, either.


----------



## newsawtooth (Sep 16, 2010)

I've got one coming up as well. I don't have a lot of the things they want. I'm the only one that drives and the truck is under 21,000 GVW and the chipper weighs 6,000 lbs. so I don't need a CDL. If you only have one truck and no CDL there are exceptions to some of their record keeping rules. I hope they don't bankrupt me with fines.


----------



## pdqdl (Sep 16, 2010)

The drug testing rule only applies to the CDL drivers. They will require you to produce a daily record of mileage for each truck, each day it is driven. Along with a daily pre- and post- trip inspection sheet, and most all the stuff I listed above.


The funny thing is, they don't really check your material that close. It really just needs to look like you are in compliance, rather than truly being accurate. They don't really have any way to confirm your miles, nor how many days you drove each truck. Make up some log sheets, and have your guys fill them out every day. 

If anybody needs the DOT daily inspection forms, I can put them on-line. I also have the Federal Annual inspection forms, which are easy to complete. I recommend really doing the federal inspection.


----------



## ropensaddle (Sep 16, 2010)

pdqdl said:


> The drug testing rule only applies to the CDL drivers. They will require you to produce a daily record of mileage for each truck, each day it is driven. Along with a daily pre- and post- trip inspection sheet, and most all the stuff I listed above.
> 
> 
> The funny thing is, they don't really check your material that close. It really just needs to look like you are in compliance, rather than truly being accurate. They don't really have any way to confirm your miles, nor how many days you drove each truck. Make up some log sheets, and have your guys fill them out every day.
> ...



I was told I don't need dot numbers on my truck if I don't cross state lines and don't need to log, WTF that was their office that told me too! I really hate the commie dern laws they only want the rich doing business and they can go to ####@@???///


----------



## pdqdl (Sep 16, 2010)

Newsaw: If your truck has an actual weight of 21k, that 6k chipper will put you into the CDL range, guaranteed.

GVW= gross vehicle weight, which is what the scale says when officer friendly starts writing your overweight ticket.

GVWR= gross vehicle weight rating, which is the manufacturers recommended maximum weight. In actuality, it is kind of a meaningless number that gives you a rough idea how much weight the truck should be able to haul. You certainly won't get in trouble if you always stay below the GVWR.

So far as I know, you can't get an overweight ticket for exceeding the GVWR of a truck, except #7, usually a municipal violation: http://www.arboristsite.com/showpost.php?p=1995789&postcount=29


----------



## newsawtooth (Sep 16, 2010)

PDQDL, you're right I meant GVRW not GVW. The unladen weight without wood or chips is 13,500 lbs. I was trying to figure out what to do and maybe I can put together some logs from my mostly infrequent mileage reports. Rope: each state has different rules concerning intrastate carries and Arkansas might not require the DOT numbers. They always require DOT numbers on interstate carriers.

PDQDL...can I get a peek at those forms?


----------



## pdqdl (Sep 16, 2010)

Rope: if your truck crosses the 26k CDL limit, or you tow a 10k trailer, you must follow all the Federal DOT regulations. NO EXCEPTIONS! It is curious, however, that some states do not attempt to enforce the regulations as rigorously as others. 

Back when the federal speed limit was set at 55mph, I had a Texas state trooper drive down the shoulder of a state highway at 55mph for about 5 miles...until I finally passed him, and went speeding down the highway at 65mph! After I passed him, he pulled back onto the highway and faded into the distance.

Many years ago, when I was driving "over the road", each state had it's own regulations, and they were often quite different.

Missouri, Arkansas, and Illinois each had legal weight maximum at 73,280, and a 55' maximum semi-truck length limit, with a "full truck" length limit at 65'. This rule was so the car-carriers could be longer. New Jersey was a 73k state too, but not too many trucks worried about them. Too small a state, and too easy to go around the scales.

Collectively, these three states choked off the east to west coast traffic, and they made zillions of $ in fines. You see, those three states form a vertical barrier across the whole middle of the US for a 80k truck loaded with California veggies headed for the New York grocery stores. All the semi-trucks were limited to small and light, the trailers were never longer than 45', and almost all trucks were "cab-over" design so that they could go down I-90,I-80, I-70, I-44, and [whatever Interstate highway Arkansas has] with a legal load.

Eventually, comes along a new President (Reagan), a new ideology in government, and Presto! De-regulation of trucking, along with some real pressure by the US gov. to make the states toe the line and bring all the DOT regulations into a standard format. So...nowadays all the states MUST follow the federal regulations, and what works in California is good in Missouri. The cab-over truck is almost completely absent from the highways, and we get State DOT audits in our offices to make sure that we aren't breaking any federal regulations.

I think Michigan still has a GVW weight limit at 132,000 pounds, and a 12 axle limt, so there are exceptions.


----------



## ropensaddle (Sep 16, 2010)

pdqdl said:


> Rope: if your truck crosses the 26k CDL limit, or you tow a 10k trailer, you must follow all the Federal DOT regulations. NO EXCEPTIONS! It is curious, however, that some states do not attempt to enforce the regulations as rigorously as others.
> 
> Back when the federal speed limit was set at 55mph, I had a Texas state trooper drive down the shoulder of a state highway at 55mph for about 5 miles...until I finally passed him, and went speeding down the highway at 65mph! After I passed him, he pulled back onto the highway and faded into the distance.
> 
> ...



I operate in 100 air mile radius of home and was told I do not need dot #s and fees nor had to keep logs but will admit if was a few years back. I have my health card and pay the 450 and 280 dollars for tags registration and feel strongly enough is enough. I am going to look into it and if its the mess your describing, I am selling my trucks. Taxes to try to stay afloat by cashing in my retirement hit me this week 1600. I am tired of supporting every one else with no profit they can all just >>>>"""""/// I will get a raptor climb everything and load my homemade trailer till the tires pop!!!!!!!


----------



## JNGWC&Tree (Sep 16, 2010)

I am the only driver. Chip truck is under CDL. I confirmed with DOT in WV that if your vehicle is under CDL and the trailer is under 10,001 it does not matter if the GCWR is over 26,000 as per the CDL regulation.

"Class A -- Any combination of vehicles with a GCWR of 26,001 or more pounds *provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds."*"

It took a "Special Inspector" to confirm this as my original contact was adament that any GCWR over 26,000 required a CDL. Finally after about 20 minutes I convinced her to read the reg off of their own website. She changed her tone and said she would have to have said inspector call. Basically States can add to the requirement but not take away so some states do enforce GCWR over 26,000 even when the towed vehicleis under 10,000. With the inspector I was careful to give him scenerio examples I.E. Chip truck is 23,000 GVW and Chipper is 6,000 GVW, "This does not require a CDL sir". Oh well, gues we'll see.


As far as logs I use the Drivers exemption logs for under 100 air miles. I am getting static on the trip inspections though. Some say only post trip required, others say both pre and post. Any ideas?

Also, can we post the forms online as stated?


----------



## pdqdl (Sep 16, 2010)

Yes, you are right: class A cdl is required for any trailer over 10k. Towing a 12k trailer will convert your 3/4 ton pickup into a CDL-A vehicle! 

Conversely, adding a 6k chipper to a Class B vehicle does not make it a class A combination.

If your truck GVWR is over 26k and you are towing a 6k chipper, you still need a CDL-B. When it comes to getting the CDL, there really isn't much difference when you take the test. If you want the Class A, you must inspect and drive a class-A vehicle. 

Here is the language on the Missouri regs: 

*"CLASS*Description*
*A* Any combination of vehicles with a Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds provided the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds. (Holders of a Class A license may also, with any appropriate endorsements, operate all vehicles within Class B and C).

*B* Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds GVWR. (Holders of a Class B license may also, with any appropriate endorsements, operate all vehicles within Class C).


----------



## lxt (Sep 16, 2010)

pdqdl said:


> Yes, you are right: class A cdl is required for any trailer over 10k. Towing a 12k trailer will convert your 3/4 ton pickup into a CDL-A vehicle!
> 
> Conversely, adding a 6k chipper to a Class B vehicle does not make it a class A combination.
> 
> ...




Whats funny is I had this discussion on a similar thread months ago!!! wish you guys would of been there, especially when I said that a 3/4 ton with a trailer in ecess of 10,001 now becomes a combination vehicle...whala class A!

pdqdl......can tell you got some big rig experience! I remember running with my uncle (independant) when I was younger, he used me as a "lumper" & when bringing the mellons back from Ca in the ole white cabover....just like you said, Hi Mr. D.O.T..... when in doubt grab a FMCSR & study the hell outta it!


LXT.............


----------



## pdqdl (Sep 16, 2010)

Thanks Lxt. 

Back when I was driving over the road, I was a young pup and didn't really know that much. I did pick up quite a bit of experience along the way.

In the early 80's, DOT enforcement was almost unheard of. You did your log books, you weighed at the scales, and every once in a while you got caught by a mobile scale that weighed you, then you went on down the road.

The mountains of paperwork, the Federal Annual Inspections, the mileage logs, all the DOT "crawl under the truck to find a fine" inspections simply were not any part of driving a truck back then. 

Just look how far we have come, eh?


----------



## ropensaddle (Sep 16, 2010)

lxt said:


> Whats funny is I had this discussion on a similar thread months ago!!! wish you guys would of been there, especially when I said that a 3/4 ton with a trailer in ecess of 10,001 now becomes a combination vehicle...whala class A!
> 
> pdqdl......can tell you got some big rig experience! I remember running with my uncle (independant) when I was younger, he used me as a "lumper" & when bringing the mellons back from Ca in the ole white cabover....just like you said, Hi Mr. D.O.T..... when in doubt grab a FMCSR & study the hell outta it!
> 
> ...



Boy I mean it is the most confusing bs I ever saw put together.


----------



## ropensaddle (Sep 16, 2010)

pdqdl said:


> Thanks Lxt.
> 
> Back when I was driving over the road, I was a young pup and didn't really know that much. I did pick up quite a bit of experience along the way.
> 
> ...


I miss da good ole days can we go back please:monkey:


----------



## pdqdl (Sep 16, 2010)

JNGWC&Tree said:


> ...Also, can we post the forms online as stated?



Got it. Done it. Click below:

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=148495


----------



## JNGWC&Tree (Sep 17, 2010)

It makes you consider throwing all the gear in an econoline van and contract climbing, but there just isn't enough grocery money in my area if you do that. $16.00 and hour here will buy you a pack of gum after taxes.


----------



## ropensaddle (Sep 17, 2010)

JNGWC&Tree said:


> It makes you consider throwing all the gear in an econoline van and contract climbing, but there just isn't enough grocery money in my area if you do that. $16.00 and hour here will buy you a pack of gum after taxes.



Got me considering climbing everything bro!


----------

