# What is causing White Ash to lose leaves early with no fall colors?



## Bobosocky (Jan 12, 2016)

This is in Central NY - we do not have EAB here yet. Curious why this is happening... I have not seen a single D shaped hole on an Ash tree in this area, which is why I think that the EAB is not doing this.

I have noticed that all the Ash around here basically turn brown in early fall and then drop their leaves. I remember reading an article around Philadelphia that there was some kind of fungus that caused them to do this, but that is pretty far from here.

Almost all the trees do have some kind of green fungus growing on them.. not sure if this could be causing it?

The only time I have seen that dark purple they used to turn is on seedlings that are starting to grow in fields. Even the saplings didn't turn purple.


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## Wildwinger (Jan 12, 2016)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ash_yellows

No idea if this is it or not (for you), but word around here is that our ash trees are getting it.


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## Bobosocky (Jan 12, 2016)

I am going to have to pay more attention this year. I haven't noticed any dieback or "witches broom."

Either way they'll all be dead in 10-15 years. Real shame.


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## Woody912 (Jan 12, 2016)

Wildwinger said:


> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ash_yellows
> 
> No idea if this is it or not (for you), but word around here is that our ash trees are getting it.



I think most of the ash around here are afflicted with ash yellows, previous to this week there was one reported eab sighting in this county but I have found 5 this week. Keep the saw sharp


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## ATH (Jan 13, 2016)

I saw a lot of _Mycosphaerella _on ash trees this summer/fall (all small trees cause that is all we have left). This can cause early browning as well. Just another possibility...

Now onto EAB: How far away are "known" infestation? If there is any identified find on a map with 50-75 miles of you, I'd bet a nickle that it is there. 100-125 away from an identified population wouldn't surprise me in the least. If it is within 50 miles, It will be in every part of town within 2 years (maybe a little slower depending on the density of ash across the region). The holes at initial infestation are at the tops of the trees and are very hard to find. It was pretty consistent that the word was "it is not here", then once it is found we'd hear: "there is evidence that it has been here 3-5 years based on callous tissue in the trees".


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## ATH (Jan 13, 2016)

Bobosocky said:


> ....
> Almost all the trees do have some kind of green fungus growing on them.. not sure if this could be causing it?
> ....


Are you talking about lichens on the bark? They do not hurt the tree. They are just using the surface of the tree to grow. They'll grow on rocks too... The increasing presence of lichens may be telling you something though. 2 things I think about when I see them:
1) More sunlight getting through the canopy will allow the lichens to grow more. So...do they mean the canopy is thinning (or maybe surrounding trees came down???) (side note, EAB causes the canopy to thin...).
2) Fast growing bark will stretch/replace itself before a big "mat" of lichens can have time to form over several years. Do they indicate the tree is growing relatively slow? Loot at how long the twigs have been growing each year for the last few years. If these are short, it tells you something is going on and needs further investigation.


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## Bobosocky (Jan 13, 2016)

ATH said:


> I saw a lot of _Mycosphaerella _on ash trees this summer/fall (all small trees cause that is all we have left). This can cause early browning as well. Just another possibility...
> 
> Now onto EAB: How far away are "known" infestation? If there is any identified find on a map with 50-75 miles of you, I'd bet a nickle that it is there. 100-125 away from an identified population wouldn't surprise me in the least. If it is within 50 miles, It will be in every part of town within 2 years (maybe a little slower depending on the density of ash across the region). The holes at initial infestation are at the tops of the trees and are very hard to find. It was pretty consistent that the word was "it is not here", then once it is found we'd hear: "there is evidence that it has been here 3-5 years based on callous tissue in the trees".



I remember seeing red dots on the maple tree leaves this summer. At the time, I wasn't paying enough attention to the ash trees. Bummer, I am only ~40 miles from closest EAB outbreak - in Unadilla, NY. Our property is not near any trade corridor, so I guess I was being optimistic that the bugs would have to actually fly here instead of hitching a ride.

http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/lands_forests_pdf/eabquarmay2015.pdf



ATH said:


> Are you talking about lichens on the bark? They do not hurt the tree. They are just using the surface of the tree to grow. They'll grow on rocks too... The increasing presence of lichens may be telling you something though. 2 things I think about when I see them:
> 1) More sunlight getting through the canopy will allow the lichens to grow more. So...do they mean the canopy is thinning (or maybe surrounding trees came down???) (side note, EAB causes the canopy to thin...).
> 2) Fast growing bark will stretch/replace itself before a big "mat" of lichens can have time to form over several years. Do they indicate the tree is growing relatively slow? Loot at how long the twigs have been growing each year for the last few years. If these are short, it tells you something is going on and needs further investigation.



We have two separate woodlots, one of them did experience some kind of an 'event' where quite a few trees died/fell. That is where I really noticed the lichen - which now that there is snow on the ground it is a lot easier to see.

Pretty big bummer if all the Ash on our property die in the next 2-3 years. I would say they make up at least 30% of our trees.


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## Woody912 (Jan 13, 2016)

ATH said:


> I saw a lot of _Mycosphaerella _on ash trees this summer/fall (all small trees cause that is all we have left). This can cause early browning as well. Just another possibility...
> 
> Now onto EAB: How far away are "known" infestation? If there is any identified find on a map with 50-75 miles of you, I'd bet a nickle that it is there. 100-125 away from an identified population wouldn't surprise me in the least. If it is within 50 miles, It will be in every part of town within 2 years (maybe a little slower depending on the density of ash across the region). The holes at initial infestation are at the tops of the trees and are very hard to find. It was pretty consistent that the word was "it is not here", then once it is found we'd hear: "there is evidence that it has been here 3-5 years based on callous tissue in the trees".



Friend tells me cost to treat an individual tree is $80/yr, any thoughts on efficacy and number of years to treat before the wave passes? I looked at a clump a yr ago and they looked fine, this year they are just ate up with borers and ground covered with bark


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## Dbodave (Jan 13, 2016)

All ash trees going from green to brown is strange. I'm not sure about your ash but we had a phenomenon this spring in MN, most maples had heavy seed crops and looked almost bare of leaves. By mid summer the trees grew more leaves and looked normal again. Stress and environmental factors is what the university said triggered the event.


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## ATH (Jan 13, 2016)

We had really heavy seed on the maple trees this year too. I got a bunch of calls about that - people thought they were brown leaves. I am pretty sure our heavy seed set was due to lack of a flower-killing frost which meant the an abnormally high % of flowers went to seed.


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## ATH (Jan 13, 2016)

Woody912 said:


> Friend tells me cost to treat an individual tree is $80/yr, any thoughts on efficacy and number of years to treat before the wave passes? I looked at a clump a yr ago and they looked fine, this year they are just ate up with borers and ground covered with bark


Cost per tree is pretty vague as the amount of chemical you use is dependent on the diameter of the trunk of the tree. Maybe he looked over your trees and estimated they were in the range that would cost $80 each.

There are some other threads about treatment options (I think the "EAB reach Wisconsin" sticky is a good one). If you want to treat, I'd say start 1-2 years before it gets there with soil drenches of imidacloprid. Then, depending how heavy the pressure is, strongly consider using Emamectin Benzoate (TreeAge or ArborMectin) when it hits in force every other year. This is quite a bit more expensive, but is more effective. Not only is the product more costly, but the labor to apply (trunk injection) and the tools used to inject cost more so it is compounding.


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## Bobosocky (Jan 13, 2016)

I'm obviously not an authority on this, but I feel like I remember reading an article about EAB 'coming back' to areas after it was thought to be gone and the treated trees were attacked.

Not sure if you've seen that happen?

I have about 10 acres of mixed Ash, and am more thinking along the lines of what new species could be introduced to provide more diversity. Once Ash is gone, Sugar Maple, Red Oak, Beech (that are all young right now), and White Pine are the only long lived species my forest will have. Otherwise it is Red maple, Black Cherry, Aspen, and other pioneer species.

SUNY-ESF has successfully cross bred American Chestnut with a Wheat gene that makes them more resistant to blight than Chinese Chestnut. It would be awesome to get some of those if they can get everything approved by the gummint.

Not sure what my point is. ATF and other thank you for taking the time to give expert opinions.


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## ATH (Jan 13, 2016)

I have been treating the same trees for 10 years....it is an on-going every year thing...not once and done. I have told all of my clients to count on treating them forever. Until there is solid research to say otherwise I am not comfortable quitting treatment. Some people have invested thousands of dollars into treatment....would hate to quit now.

I would not necessarily recommend trying to treat trees in the woods...no way you can justify the finances. You have to "like the tree more than you like money".

re: the SUNY trees - just for kicks. I agree that will be cool once they are available. Point of technicality...cross breeding is pollinating one plant with another. They did gene splicing. There was a ruling a couple of years ago that genetically modified pine trees cannot be regulated by USDA because they are not food. However, I suspect that ruling will not apply to Chestnut because the nuts are/can be used for food - even if the tree is just being grown for timber, they need to protect the possibility.

See if you can get a DEC Forester to look at your woods with you. Not sure what size of woods they work with... They can help you figure out what trees to encourage. One thing to be aware of is invasive species taking over the gaps created when the trees die off. Different parts of the country have problems with different species so it is hard to say what to look out for without a long list.


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## Bobosocky (Jan 13, 2016)

Thanks again for all the good info ATH. I have reached out to the local DEC forest owners program, and will hopefully have someone come out this spring or summer.

We recently bought this property, and are very interested in managing the woodlot properly. The best resource I have read so far is "Silvicultural Guide for Northern Hardwoods in the Northeast." Our land is also surrounded by state land, and their management plan includes detailed descriptions of all the wooded areas around us, which is pretty cool.


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## Ferguson system (Jan 14, 2016)

Bobosocky said:


> I have noticed that all the Ash around here basically turn brown in early fall and then drop their leaves.



It could be tree rust. It matches the description, leaves will fall early with no other signs.
Tree rust usually affects a tree for 3-4 years. Most mature trees survive a rust attack, unless it is weakened from before.


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