# Firewood vs. Sawmill Logs



## ChrHerrman (Mar 7, 2011)

Just trying to get some input on this topic. I always thought you could make more money taking logs to a sawmill rather than cutting it up for firewood. I do 15-20 cord of firewood per year so I know there is a lot more hadling with firewood than logs, but which one makes more money? I am in SE PA and sell wood for $200 per cord but have never taken logs to a sawmill. I am trying to see if it would be more profitable for me to sell firewood or to find a sawmill.


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## burroak (Mar 7, 2011)

The more valuable species like cherry and walnut are definately more valuable as sawtimber, but the other ones depend on the grade, what your customers demand, and how valuable your time is to you.

If your customers demand only hickory and oak, then the other woods like sycamore, hackberry, and coffee tree would be worthwhile to just take to the local mill.

Stuff Like yellow poplar(tulip) I take to the sawmill, along with any high grade oak, maple, cherry, or walnut. The mediocre firewoods like hackberry, sycamore, and elm I can sell as firewood pretty easily where I'm at. Of course, the mill doesn't take yard trees, so that also influences what happens to the logs.


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## avalancher (Mar 7, 2011)

Another thing to consider is the price that mills are paying right now for logs.I dont know about where you live, a phone call might settle it for you,but here they arent paying squat for logs. I hauled a nice pair of red oak logs over to the mill right before Christmas,they were both 16 footers and 36 DBH.Walked away with $140 in my pocket.Not much when you consider what it took to get them there.

Call your mill and find out what they are taking, and what they are paying to avoid and disapointments once you get there.


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## Dalmatian90 (Mar 7, 2011)

No idea what you have for equipment already.

Firewood is human scale, always. You can at least have a hobby that pays for itself at 20 cords per year if all you have is a chainsaw, one ton pickup (or 3/4 ton and dump trailer), and a splitting ax. Plus some PPE, gas can, and a few wedges.

Soon as you're talking timber...you're not going to handle logs yourself. We're talking horses, or ATV/Tractors & Arches; having to hire a grapple truck to economically move a lot of logs at once to the mill; etc. 

And even if you invest a modest amount, you'll be competing against folks who have hundreds of thousands invested in skidders and trucks that allow them to move the equivalent of 20 cords/day/man in timber to the mill -- folks setup to survive on high volume and low margins. Not saying it can't be done, but it's roughly the equivalent of opening a retail store across from WalMart...there best be something that makes your small operation special.


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## STLfirewood (Mar 7, 2011)

On average there is 500 board feet in a cord of wood. If you getting $200 a cord your getting around $.40 a board foot for your firewood. Right now tie lumber is bringing $.32 a board foot and saw logs are $.18-.21 a board foot. Grade lumber brings more.. To sell the logs you have to be able to handle them. My firewood brings a lot more then $200 a cord so I don't sell logs to the mill unless they are grade.

Scott


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## Will_C (Mar 7, 2011)

All the loggers locally sell as many loads of firewood logs as they can (unless they are working on contract.) Not a strong pulp market and the logs bring $100 or so a cord, sold for cash money. They would have to bring at least $200 a thousand to take to a saw mill, and that represents a decent grade of log for many species.

Will


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## promac850 (Mar 7, 2011)

Dalmatian90 said:


> No idea what you have for equipment already.
> 
> Firewood is human scale, always. You can at least have a hobby that pays for itself at 20 cords per year if all you have is a chainsaw, one ton pickup (or 3/4 ton and dump trailer), and a splitting ax. Plus some PPE, gas can, and a few wedges.
> 
> ...


 
That reminds me of Ax Men's Shelby... he is harvesting that aqua timber. I'm thinking about doing a little bit of that for the heck of it. Next time me and pops go fishing, we'll take some ropes with us and yank some timber out of the lake with our 150 hp bass boat.


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## daleeper (Mar 8, 2011)

promac610 said:


> That reminds me of Ax Men's Shelby... he is harvesting that aqua timber. I'm thinking about doing a little bit of that for the heck of it. Next time me and pops go fishing, we'll take some ropes with us and yank some timber out of the lake with our 150 hp bass boat.


 
Don't forget the video camera. Might make AFV.


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## avalancher (Mar 8, 2011)

promac610 said:


> That reminds me of Ax Men's Shelby... he is harvesting that aqua timber. I'm thinking about doing a little bit of that for the heck of it. Next time me and pops go fishing, we'll take some ropes with us and yank some timber out of the lake with our 150 hp bass boat.



When you do, let me know how it goes, and where you marketed the lumber at.We have tons of logs floating around and submerged on douglas lake, and I live right on it.I was thinking that yesterday when I saw several logs peeking out of the brush along the bank, and kinda wondered if it would be worth my while to haul them out and throw them on the mill.I have avoided it in the past, sand gets in every nook and cranny on those logs, and I shuddered at the thought of sharpening after each and every pass on those logs.But, if it brings in high dollars, it might be worth it.....


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## Curlycherry1 (Mar 8, 2011)

> That reminds me of Ax Men's Shelby... he is harvesting that aqua timber. I'm thinking about doing a little bit of that for the heck of it. Next time me and pops go fishing, we'll take some ropes with us and yank some timber out of the lake with our 150 hp bass boat.



Better check with your DNR first. In most places it is illegal to remove logs and other stuff from waterways because it is considered fish shelter. S&S Aqua Logging (ie Jimmy NoBrain Smith) had his operation shut down and he was sued for taking logs without a permit.

Ax Men Timber Crew Chopped Down Illegal Logs « Movies, Reviews and More - Screenhead


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## avalancher (Mar 8, 2011)

Curlycherry1 said:


> Better check with your DNR first. In most places it is illegal to remove logs and other stuff from waterways because it is considered fish shelter. S&S Aqua Logging (ie Jimmy NoBrain Smith) had his operation shut down and he was sued for taking logs without a permit.
> 
> Ax Men Timber Crew Chopped Down Illegal Logs « Movies, Reviews and More - Screenhead


 
Your bring up a good point, and one that I didnt think about.Might have to check into that.On a side note, I heard also in the news that Jimmy Smith is also in trouble with the law on another front.Seems that he has been drawing disability compensation payments the entire time he has been on the show for a back injury on a different job.Its incredible how stupid some folks can be.

Sorry for the hijack OP!


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## Curlycherry1 (Mar 8, 2011)

avalancher said:


> Your bring up a good point, and one that I didnt think about.Might have to check into that.On a side note, I heard also in the news that Jimmy Smith is also in trouble with the law on another front.Seems that he has been drawing disability compensation payments the entire time he has been on the show for a back injury on a different job.Its incredible how stupid some folks can be.
> 
> Sorry for the hijack OP!



OMG! Jimmy is such a tool! What kind of moron goes on a TV show while collecting worker's disability checks? Someone please down that idiot under one of the logs he is trying to salvage, please!

Here's the link. They got him on 17 counts:

Reality TV Star’s Workers’ Comp Benefits Get Axed «


The Washington Department of Labor and Industries has frozen the pension benefits of reality TV star James Frank Smith. According to L&I, Smith, who stars on the History Channel show "Ax Men" with his son, has been charged with 17 counts of theft. He is accused of drawing a disability pension while also working as a logger for his own business, S&S Aqua Logging.

Smith, a Roslyn, Wash., resident, received workers' compensation benefits for two significant workplace injuries occurring in 1993 and 1996, L&I said. Due to his serious injuries, and after years of treatment aimed at returning him to employment, he was found to be unable to return to work in December 2007 and placed on pension.

L&I authorities froze his pension benefit and launched an investigation after seeing Smith on the show performing work he claimed he was not capable of doing. He is scheduled to be arraigned in a Thurston County court on February 15.

Smith first appeared in season two of "Ax Men," salvaging logs from coastal Washington rivers.


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## avalancher (Mar 8, 2011)

Curlycherry1 said:


> OMG! Jimmy is such a tool! What kind of moron goes on a TV show while collecting worker's disability checks? Someone please down that idiot under one of the logs he is trying to salvage, please!
> 
> Here's the link. They got him on 17 counts:
> 
> ...


 
It is no secret the guy is an idiot,ten minutes of watching that show will tell you that, but it really does make you wonder how anybody can be that stupid.Did he really think that nobody with the state would happen to either watch that show, or see the commercials?You would think even a chimp would have enough sense to stay as far away as possible from a tv camera when you are hauling logs out of a river while drawing workmans comp.Hope they nail the son of a gun to the wall and his kid takes over the business while dear old dad rots in jail.


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## Dalmatian90 (Mar 8, 2011)

> It is no secret the guy is an idiot,ten minutes of watching that show will tell you that, but it really does make you wonder how anybody can be that stupid.



Given the number of folks on Worker's Comp who've tried to join my VFD over the years...there's a lot of stupid out there. And most of them get pissed off when you point out to them that being a Firefighter would attract WC fraud investigators like flies to ####.


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## TMFARM 2009 (Mar 8, 2011)

ChrHerrman said:


> Just trying to get some input on this topic. I always thought you could make more money taking logs to a sawmill rather than cutting it up for firewood. I do 15-20 cord of firewood per year so I know there is a lot more hadling with firewood than logs, but which one makes more money? I am in SE PA and sell wood for $200 per cord but have never taken logs to a sawmill. I am trying to see if it would be more profitable for me to sell firewood or to find a sawmill.


 if you get hooked into a good furniture mill,you can make some good money on timber."saw logs" lumber logs wont bring as much, small niche mills are where the money is but you need to find out exactly what they want....i have one here locally,he pays nicely but wont buy anything pulled.. cut them right when felling... the other mill locally (my friends mill) he just buys lumber logs.. for farm applications...ash, oak, hedge...where the other guy only buys walnut cherry coffee hickory poplar etc. they have to be straight also..its hard to make lumber out of s shaped logs....:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:
i have made as much as $500.00 for a single 16' walnut here and coffee log as much as $350.00 ea.at the furniture mill...


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## Curlycherry1 (Mar 8, 2011)

When the housing market dropped the lumber market crashed even worse. I used to buy cherry 4/4 boards for $6-8/bd ft. Recent prices at the same place at $3.25. That is less than half of what it was before. Now back up the cost of kiln drying, sawing, hauling to the mill, and skidding it out of the woods and you can see that even premium logs like black cherry are not worth much standing on the stump. Might as well leave them there to grow bigger and let the market price catch up.

My brother has logger begging him to take firewood logs. He did not sell as much firewood as he normally does for some reason and so he is not buying any logs at all this winter. So there goes the market for ~200 triaxel loads right there.


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