# Thimbles



## Bakes5 (May 28, 2006)

Does anyone use thimbles on their termination knots on a regular basis? Specifically, I am wondering about the attachment knots for hooking your saddle via the DdRT and for the termination knot when you do SRT and hook a screw link to the end then pull it up so that it cinches around the branch.

Thanks

Bakes


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## BigUglySquirrel (May 28, 2006)

Don't know about SRT because I don't use it. But the other guys that I work with use thimbles. I tie them off for them with a Double Fishermans Knot. (They aren't much on the finer points) You can also use an Anchor Bend. Plan on cutting the thimble back out. They are nearly impossible to work loose. I bypass the thimble/snap routine and tie straight to the D's with a Bowline w/ a Yosemite tie-off when I do go traditional. (Usually use split tails) Hope this helps!

http://www1.brcc.edu/murray/Arboriculture/tree_climbing/default.htm


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## Tom Dunlap (May 30, 2006)

You may as well get ready for the changes in the 2006 Z133. One of them will be a requirement to terminate all life support lines with cinch-type terminations. A thimble will still allow the biner to spin and get cross-loaded on the gate. There are plenty of solutions for cinch-type terminations.


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## jerry1818 (Jun 8, 2006)

Is this what you're talking about? I was just wondering about this.


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## Bakes5 (Jun 8, 2006)

One more quick Q

Will I be OK using a thimble designed for 1/2 inch rope on my 11 mm rope? (I use The Fly) I can't seem to find any thimbles in the 11mm size.

Thanks

Bakes


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## jerry1818 (Jun 8, 2006)

Tom Dunlap said:


> You may as well get ready for the changes in the 2006 Z133. One of them will be a requirement to terminate all life support lines with cinch-type terminations. A thimble will still allow the biner to spin and get cross-loaded on the gate. There are plenty of solutions for cinch-type terminations.



So, I understand why a thimble on a biner is a bad idea, and it doesn't seem to be needed anyway, due to the relatively large cross sectional area of the biner. Rope clips, on the other hand, are usually much thinner material and might benifit from a thimble, but I always thought thimbles were just for splicing. Is the DF a good knot to use with a thimble or is there a better one? 

(see attachment - post #4)

Jerry


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## Tom Dunlap (Jun 11, 2006)

The knot in #4 is a double overhand or scafflold hitch even though it looks like a double fishermans. It's as important that we name our knots correctly as it is we name the trees correctly.


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## jerry1818 (Jun 11, 2006)

Tom Dunlap said:


> The knot in #4 is a double overhand or scafflold hitch...



Hi Tom,

I'm very new to all this, so your input is appreciated. From what I've learned so far, what I tied is indeed a Scaffold Hitch or Double Overhand. A DF is really a bend used to connect two ropes, with each knot, individually being a Double Overhand. If any of the above is incorrect, feel free to correct me again (always happy to learn something). I called it a DF because that's what everyone else seems to call it (leading to much confusion on my part). I just hope I tied the knot correctly and didn't tie a different knot by mistake.

Anyway, is this a good knot to use with a thimble? Is there a better one? Should I just toss the thimble untill I learn to splice 16 strand?

edit:
BTW, I climbed on it a little bit yesterday and it seemed to squashing down the thimble slightly. Hmmm....

Jerry


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## Tom Dunlap (Jun 11, 2006)

Jerry,

You're right on track. Common nomenclature makes it much easier to communicate.

The scaffold is a great one to use. Be sure to set the hitch snug before you run it down onto the thimble.


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## lync (Jun 12, 2006)

For SRT I would leave out the screw link or beaner if your going to choke the tie in point. Use a running bowline with a yosemite tie off, make the loop small, but leave a long tail. the long tail will help yopu reach the knot to untie it when you get close to your tie in point. I only use a thimble on a permanently cinched knot like on a lanyard where the rope will always be in the same exact position, or if climbing traditional where the climbing line is tied to the safety snap with a tail remaining. tying to a beaner with an anchor bend or scaffold knot really doesn't require a thimble.


Corey


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## Bakes5 (Jun 19, 2006)

jerry1818 said:


> A DF is really a bend used to connect two ropes, with each knot, individually being a Double Overhand.



Someone correct me if I am wrong here, but each knot on the double fishermans is NOT a double overhand. I can tie DF terminations all day blindfolded underwater but I have to look at the book to tie the double overhand. It's not that it is difficult, I just don't use it. I have not found any situation where I just have to know the double overhand.

Bakes


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## moss (Jun 19, 2006)

Jepson calls the cinching termination knot which uses a Double Overhand a "Double Fisherman's Loop" and describes it as one half of the Double Fisherman's Knot. Strictly speaking the Double Overhand Knot is a stopper knot and does not have a loop.

I've been looking for refences to Scaffold Knot and am finding something very different that is also called a Gallows Knot.

The Double Fisherman's Knot is also called a Grapevine Knot and is a pair of DO's tied to join opposing ends of a rope (described in earlier post on this thread). A rescue reference that I looked at calls it the Double Overhand Bend

To make it more fun Jepson also describe's the Sliding Double Fisherman's Knot, yet another variation in the DF/DO family of knots.

There's a reason why we struggle with knot nomenclature 
-moss


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## moss (Jun 19, 2006)

Tom Dunlap said:


> You may as well get ready for the changes in the 2006 Z133. One of them will be a requirement to terminate all life support lines with cinch-type terminations.



From what you're saying it appears that the Figure 8 on a Bight commonly used by rec climbers and probably some arborists as a rope termination in a traditional DdRT setup will not meet Z133 since it doesn't cinch the biner.
-moss


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## jerry1818 (Jun 19, 2006)

jerry1818 said:


> FROM POST #8:
> 
> BTW, I climbed on it a little bit yesterday and it seemed to squashing down the thimble slightly. Hmmm....
> 
> Jerry



Climbed some more on it and it's really squashing the thimble. The fact I go 270lbs may have something to do with it, but it's good to know how tight the DF gets. I am using the round thimbles; does anyone find the teardrop thimbles better? -might prevent squashing? Maybe I'll just go thimbleless.

Jerry


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