# Spikeless climbers needed



## xtremetrees

I need a climber that can climb without spikes. 
I dont want to teach this part of my business I feel the learning curve to steep. I'd like to hire out spikeless climbers at a daily rate. I dont need one all the time maybe only 1 day a week, some weeks more.
Come grow with us.


----------



## TREETX

who wouldn't jump on that offer?


----------



## Tom Dunlap

Whaaaat???

So you need a pruning crew to compliment your take-down crew? 

Where else do you use spikes, certainly, you don't use spikes for pruning do you?


----------



## xtremetrees

Thanks for posting Tom. I was trained early on 12 years ago to not use spikes when trimming. I'm looking for anonther tree man that is trained in spikeless climbing to join in all the fun I'm having.


----------



## xtremetrees

Oh I should say I am in the North Metro Atl. Ga area.


----------



## Tom Dunlap

xtremetrees said:


> I'm looking for another tree man...



You're limiting your vision ot half the field by only looking for tree men.


----------



## Tom Dunlap

This was posted in my reputation points:

Spikeless climbers needed 12-05-2005 01:13 PM annoying, irrellevent

What's "annoying and irrellevent" [sic] about including women in the profession? Limiting a job seach to only men doesn't make sense and could lead someone into a sexual discrimination case. Being inclusive isn't about being PC. All of the women who've worked for me were much better workers than the men that I hired with equal experience. The women progressed as climbers much faster than the men.


----------



## clearance

Spikeless treework means out of the bucket! Tom, very egalitarian of you to equate women with men at treework, lofty and admirable for sure, but back to reality. It is a fact that men are usually bigger and have more upper body strength than women and are thus better suited to demanding physical tasks. I am not saying that women are incapable of treework, just not as physically suited for it as men. Ideology cannot negate biological facts.


----------



## Tom Dunlap

clearance said:


> It is a fact that men are usually bigger and have more upper body strength than women and are thus better suited to demanding physical tasks. I am not saying that women are incapable of treework, just not as physically suited for it as men. Ideology cannot negate biological facts.



Fact or generality? I'm not a big guy so I make small pieces and use my strongest muscle, the one between my ears. 

Is treework just physical or what about the mental part?

Ideology??? Not what I'm talking about, read on...

*****
Ideology 
1. The science of ideas. --Stewart. [1913 Webster]

2. (Metaph.) A theory of the origin of ideas which derives them exclusively from sensation.
[1913 Webster]

3. A set or system of theories and beliefs held by an individual or group, especially about sociopolitical goals and methods to attain them; in common usage, ideology is such a set of beliefs so strongly held by their adherents as to cause them to ignore evidence against such beliefs, and thus fall into error -- in this sense it is viewed as a negative trait; contrasted to pragmatism, and distinct from idealism.

From WordNet (r) 2.0 :

Ideology
n 1: an orientation that characterizes the thinking of a group or nation [syn: political orientation, political theory]
2: imaginary or visionary theorization
*****

Thinking that women can't do tasks is certainly dated. Have you seen the movie "North Country" ? You would identify with a lot of the thinking of the guys in that movie.


----------



## xtremetrees

Anybody willling to help a day a week email: [email protected]
Tom show us again the pic of you standing in the swamp in water chest high. That was one awesome tree. This week I'm scheduled to look at a state champion. 
The lady wants me to build a tryolene traverse in other trees, Then install a swing for her kid. I'll talk with her about Cobra and see. 
I'll probably dead wood the champion for free if I'm allowed to get my hands on it.


----------



## Tom Dunlap




----------



## xtremetrees

Awsome tree! Thanks! Did it get hit by the hurricane?
Do you voluenteer and climb champions in your area, are you in the parrish?
I really want to go and visist RBTREE! Man his trees are awesome! I'd almost vol. time to work on washingtons states huge 160 footers. I may move to the west coast one day and climb them constantly.


----------



## Tom Dunlap

A few years ago I was on a working vacation. I spent a few days in Baton Rouge working with a friend. This was a Sunday hike. The Miss. was flooding at the time as you can see so we got wet.

Climbing champion trees just to climb them is not encouraged.


----------



## gitrdun_climbr

I would agree. I am a Washington tree serviceman and marvel at some of the old growth out here. One hike through Alpine Lake Wilderness will send the recreational climber into a walking orgasm .. but let's hope these rec climbers don't take off and start spiking, branding and clawing these 1000 year old trees! For business, plenty of 150 footers to work on out here though.

I also wanted to chime in on the 'women' in the business topic. I feel that many men are difficult to train to climb because muscle memory is more key than anything .. this takes time. Woman can be sharp minded and categorize technique very quickly but again reality must chime in: she would be the exception and not the rule if she can gun a throwline into the tree, tie in and thrust her way up there to position around in the tree and remove wood with a chain saw. Mechanical advantage is a blessing to all of this .. and of course she could use it to a max and pull it off .. but not most, sorry. I know from experience, in training.


----------



## stihlatit

Tom Dunlap said:


> This was posted in my reputation points:
> 
> Spikeless climbers needed 12-05-2005 01:13 PM annoying, irrellevent
> 
> What's "annoying and irrellevent" [sic] about including women in the profession? Limiting a job seach to only men doesn't make sense and could lead someone into a sexual discrimination case. Being inclusive isn't about being PC. All of the women who've worked for me were much better workers than the men that I hired with equal experience. The women progressed as climbers much faster than the men.



Right on the money Mr. Dunlap as politically correct would be "Treeperson" versus "Treeman".

Arnie


----------



## prorover

*treeperson vs treeman*

how 'bout just "treegeek"


----------



## xtremetrees

Toms not blind TreeCo, he's just old like us and forget his BC glasses in the truck The only Tree Lady I heard of sounded off like the drill seargent does. I heard she could tell you what to do if you were in the tree in the back yard from the front. I never met her, Shes has sence passed away I shouldn't be downing her for her efforts fed many hungry mouths, mine being one, years after she'd gone.


----------



## mightyoak

per house bill:515347211-706gt-4. it is illegal to utter, in a public forum certain divisive terms, partially listed as follows, ( good boy) (atta boy) (tom boy) (youz guys) (boys will be boys) (mans man) (cowboy) in particular it would be best for all, if you chose more inclusive terms, ie: hey human, those sapiens, my "fellow" metabolizers, hello kind humanid.. now get with it america..


----------



## Chronic1

When I was in College at ESF, the Forestry women wore steel toe boots. Never trust a woman who wears steel toe boots. LOL.


----------



## Jen

*women - trades*

I don't know if this thread is dead but hey, after reading this, I laughed my ass off. 

I'm 5'2", 125-130lbs, I'm kinda an ex climber - still do odd jobs, always had my own gear etc - yes I also went to school - I hate to admit that certain aspects are true - I have the luxury of being built kinda like a minibrick house, and most women aren't, nor do they want to be.

Personally, Ive never had a prob with getting a throw-line, my own climbin line, all my gear myself from the get go, but attitude helps, ...as for the debate - at the end of the day is the job done? man or woman if you can do the job great, if not - get the f*** off my jobsite

any woman in this industry or any trade should already be prepared for what she encounters - jokes, comments, pc-incorrectness, and be prepared to dish it back. You might not be able to fight city hall - but you can go in there and piss everybody off....lol


----------



## xtremetrees

Thanks Jen for posting. These knotheads are trying to derail my thread with their all consuming fear of lawyers. 
If your in the North Atlanta Metro area I'd be more than glad to go over my plan with ya. Much of my time now is devoted to public speaking and standing up for trees. With this great honor comes great responsibility


----------



## xtremetrees

Just thought I'd bump this thread as spring is nearly here and my post is fallen to the 2nd page.


----------



## Jen

your a good man - no matter what they say - lol
If I could get the joy of tree workagain I would - but for now - it doesnt pay - I'll stick to construction and bridges - but I love the info


----------



## rebelman

Women make great ground help. Limitations in one area are compensated for in other areas. A woman who can climb without spikes would be much more valuable than a man who uses spikes.


----------



## Jen

*spikes*

personally - I fell once while spurring a removal - got a little too overzealous - it was funny - not hurt bad - but never again. In school here they teach you from the get go - no spurs - climb without em. Hence I never have since - I can climb, shimmy - whatever it takes to get the job done - but pls dont ever say - oh - we are helpful on the ground. Cause most men I have had as groundsmen are useless


----------



## xtremetrees

Jen aint a "ground climber below you" haha climb on climber!


----------



## xtremetrees

Im mostly sorry about the pay we all get like you said...

Oh you specialize in treees you a arborist that sounds expensive.


----------



## Jen

*well....*

it could be my Canadianese..., I'm not too sure how to take your last 2 shots - but dear god, I hope you dont mean them as they sound.......

happy happy, joy joy-

I'd kick your ass if you could make it here old man


----------



## clearance

Jen said:


> your a good man - no matter what they say - lol
> If I could get the joy of tree workagain I would - but for now - it doesnt pay - I'll stick to construction and bridges - but I love the info


Good for you Jen, I am just a hack in BC that climbs big trees in the bush, with spurs always. But in 04 I worked on a highrise tower in downtown Vancouver, there was a young woman carpenter about you size who worked like a man, impressed me a lot. Like its nothing for me to pack 4x6 shoring 12' long 2 at a time, but to see a small woman do it..... , actually one of the carpenters got in a fistfight with her partner cause he let her pack thier wood. I sprained my thumb when myself and his partner pulled them apart, you get suspended for fighting or actually having any fun, it sure isn't the 80s anymore, you know, beer in one hand, pump hose in the other, 30' off the ground t-shirt and jeans, no hardhat.


----------

