# Wood Stove vs. Wood Furnace



## mopar969 (Mar 22, 2013)

Since I am still a new guy on here if this is already posted just send me the link. I looked and found alto of other posts. However, this also involves my house and its particular layout. So, here I go. I want to install a wood burner for my house, the layout for my house is shown below sorry for the bad handwriting. 

I was debating between a wood stove or a furnace, but from what I understand the wood stove is the more efficient. Thus, I would like to go with the wood burner that uses less wood. However, where I want to put a wood stove it will be able to heat my large house. I am use to my house being at about 57-60 degrees so I think that it will be able to heat my house well compared to what I am use to. However, how big of a stove should I get and from what I understand the most efficient is one with an after burn but what about a converter on it? Also, how big should I get I am thinking the biggest at 3000 square feet. I also want to buy it from home depot or lowes because I get fuel perks here in southwestern pa. Let me know which ones could heat my house well if possible. Also, the problem that I have with putting the stove in the spot that I have in my house layout is that it is about 15 feet from my back door, the ceiling in the new edition, the 900 sq ft area, is 15 feet high and the new edition is above my underground garage. View attachment 286130


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## Ironworker (Mar 22, 2013)

With 3000 sq ft you are gonna need the biggest stove out there, but should stay away from the box stores, those are cheap, you will be better off going to a stove place.


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## dave_dj1 (Mar 22, 2013)

What is your plan to get the heat upstairs? 
The stairs will act as a block, heat meets cold and it won't go without some sort of return air duct.
What type of heat do you have now? If forced hot air I would go with a furnace. They have some pretty efficient ones out there now. If you have hot water baseboard or in floor radiant I would go with a wood boiler. A house that size is going to take a lot of heat er, wood.


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## stihly dan (Mar 22, 2013)

+1 on what dave said.


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## Arbonaut (Mar 22, 2013)

3000 Sq. Feet, Wood Stove or Wood Furnace?

Wood Boiler.






Better hygiene for the dwelling. And more trigger time.


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## KindredSpiritzz (Mar 22, 2013)

i'd go wood furnace, i dont think you're going to heat that big of a house with just a stove, specially with an upstairs. You're going to end up cooking yourself out of the room the stove is in trying to warm up the rest of the house and trying to circulate that warm air is going to be a nightmare i think.


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## Como (Mar 23, 2013)

Wood Boiler would be the most efficient.

How is the house currently heated?


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## Ironworker (Mar 23, 2013)

I have a similar lay out as you and I have no problem heating 3200 sq. ft. With a Lopi Freedom insert, when we went for our stove the stove guy came over and looked at our house before we made our purchase and went with his recommendation, that is why going to a stove place is the way to go, it may cost a little more but you will get a quality stove with many years of loyalty behind it. After 5 years I went back there because one of the baffles had warped and not only did he replace it but gave me another just in case, let me see a box store do that.


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## sunfish (Mar 23, 2013)

Personally I like wood stoves much better than a furnace, or boiler.

Like said, go to a stove dealer, not a big box store! Junk at the box store!!!

Look for Jotul brand and get the largest one they offer.


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## Dogsout (Mar 23, 2013)

mopar969 said:


> I am use to my house being at about 57-60 degrees so I think that it will be able to heat my house well compared to what I am use to. View attachment 286130



I know one thing for certain you CAN'T be married. If my house goes below 70, my quality of life takes a serious downturn courtesy of my better half. Guess she has gotten used to our OWB pumping plenty of heat into the house.


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## mopar969 (Mar 23, 2013)

I am leaning towards getting the 3000 sq ft us stove from home depot. One of the reasons that I am trying to avoid a furnace is because I currently have a forced air oil furnace which is killing my wallet. So, have have no room to run another flue from my garage through the new edition to the roof. I was also leaning toward the stove because of the fact I can heat my house without electricity. I live out in the country with over seven acres and the power goes out often. As far as the issue with the heat going upstairs, to me this would not be a problem because they are just bedrooms and we are rarely in them. Also,the rooms are small to where if it doesn't heat that well I could use electric space heaters if needed. 

Do you think this will heat the new edition since it has a high ceiling and is above a garage. Also about how hot should I expect the other end of the house to be. I would like this stove to be supplement heat but if it heats well, I will use it as my main heat source. I wanted to post this to see if others have used a stove to heat their house that might be relatively similar to mine. 

Lastly, If I have a stove on the main floor what about pipes freezing in my basement, because my basement is made out of sandstone and is not really underground it is at ground level. 

Let me know how well you think this stove might be and what temp I can expect my living room on theother end of the house to be. Thanks for all input it is much appreciated.


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## KindredSpiritzz (Mar 23, 2013)

might want to check with your insurance company before you buy the stove and make sure they will insure it. My insurance company won't insure ANY free standing type wood stove but they were fine with my wood furnace, go figure. An OWB would be the way to go if you live in the country like that, i'd love to have one but can't in the city.
make sure you do your homework on stoves and make sure you get one with a glass door, you'll appreciate it later.


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## blades (Mar 23, 2013)

Heat rises, sure does not move horizontal with out help so on your big place hot at stove end cool at other . You do not like furnace idea, suggest 2 stoves if you can not centrally locate one large one. Not a fan of US stoves( chi-com built) If you are looking at plain jane steel stoves Englander ( US made) or Drolet ( Canadian made) Both have excellent customer service. 

Power loss, best be looking at some sort of back up then. Space heaters don't work with out it either. Lp genset would be best. Big enough to power couple major appliances at once. I have two gens a little 1000w and a larger 5000w both gas so I have to take care not to leave the crappy ethanol in them ( that's all I can get here) had them for long time.


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## stihly dan (Mar 23, 2013)

The basement will be a problem on real cold nights. use your oil then. Or do an add on furnace, it doe's not have to be next to the oil one. It can be anywhere in the basement. All rms will be heated in the house including basement. All the debris, dust, spiders, and stacks stay out of the living area. Less work, better heat, cleaner house.


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## Como (Mar 23, 2013)

Square footage is pretty meaningless.

What did your heat loss calculation produce?


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## mopar969 (Mar 23, 2013)

I am still leaning towards a wood stove because I thought they are more efficient than the wood furnace, is this correct?

To Move the heat laterally cant I set up a fan and blow it that way, or is this ineffective with a wood stove? 

Also, I really don't have space in my garage for the furnace because where my current furnace is there is no room since it is next to my stairs.

As far as the house I think that if the blower is on wont heat eventually go laterally to the main part of the house? Also, as far as the basement will their be a concern for pipes to freeze only on unusually cold nights or will this be an every night caution? Thanks again everyone.

Lastly is there a big difference between a 3000 sq ft stove and a 2500 sq ft stove?


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## Ironworker (Mar 23, 2013)

You will be surprised at not only how much the heat spreads but how fast, looking at your lay out you seem to have an open floor plan which is good but also your stove will be close to your stairs and heat rises, like I stated earlier you might be better off going to a stove specialist, it might cost a bit more but will help you in the long run, those guys see all kinds of lay outs and know what is best and more often they will come over with out costing you a nickel.


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## Como (Mar 23, 2013)

3,000 sq ft at 10 btu is 30,000btus max an hour.

3,000 sq ft at 50 btus max is 150,000 an hour.

What is yours?


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## blades (Mar 23, 2013)

There are a few very efficient wood furnaces available. These units are specifically designed to burn wood, not coal units that you can burn wood in also. Wood and coal burn in completely different ways. Generally coal requires a forced combustion air source something that is not needed with wood.


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## brenndatomu (Mar 23, 2013)

There are at least two high efficiency wood furnace manufactures that are sponsors on AS. 1. Kuuma - http://www.arboristsite.com/redirsponsor.php?size=lg&id=38 2.PSG - Les fournaises PSG

And as far as the Sq. footage rating of wood stove/inserts, IGNORE IT! The size of the firebox means more than the manufactures "rating," cause they do not compare apples to apples, they kinda just pull a # out they azzes.


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## gregfox (Mar 23, 2013)

A stoves advertised square footage is a near worthless figure. At least go see a stove specialist, I've regretted my big box stove ever since I bought it. Times were tough and it was all I could afford, 4 yrs later it's a rusty eyesore that I still use to heat with. The next will not come from a big box store.


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## tramp bushler (Mar 24, 2013)

Modern boilers and furnaces are sometimes Very efficient. I've supplied the wood for several 3,000+ sq.ft.homes for the past few years and I am currently feeding one for a customer who is heating 4,600 sq.ft. Most are Central Boiler brand. They all have liquid systems of 1 type or other. It gets COLD here and they burn between 14 and 20 cord per winter. And burn from early September thru sometime in May. It gets 50 below and colder. I myself Hate air blowing around a house, but you already have the duct work and blower in. If the furnace blower can run without the oil furnace fireing up and it can draw air from where the wood stove is . A big wood stove would work for you. Our bedroom stays about 80° and my wife " who is from Barsto California stays happy. Bedroom at 60° I best have gone t bed wearing a helmet cause I gonna get wacked up side the head. One GREAT thing about wood heat. You don't have to be miserly with the heat. Just cut and haul more wood. Trees grow back!!


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## 2rod511 (Mar 24, 2013)

Hope you like keeping your house around 57 to 60 degrees because you are never going to heat a 3000 sqft house with a home depot wood stove. If you did keep it warm somebody would need to be there to fill the tiny firebox every three to four hours. Tried to heat my one story 2000 sqft house with a wood insert and could get the back of the house about sixty degrees if you heated the front up to a sweltering 80 to 85. I bought a wood boiler and problem solved. It is impossible to keep your house a cozy 70 degrees all winter long and not burn a bunch of wood. My wood boiler needs to be loaded twice a day in cold weather. I read that in the brochure and thought that won't be bad. Then when it arrived I saw the firebox and needless to say it takes a big dent out of the woodpile every time I fill it. After heating with wood for five or six years now I realize why it costs so much to heat with oil, gas, or electricity. It just simply takes a tremendous amount of fuel or energy to heat a house.


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## jaars (Mar 24, 2013)

Wood boiler all the way. If I kept my house 57/60 I wouldn't burn any wood. Can run 73 deg easy with boiler. 3000 sq ft 2 story/ forced air. Love it


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## blades (Mar 25, 2013)

I use an Englander NC30 stove in a 2000ft ranch 60's era construction with some insulation updates, windows, attic most of the winter here it is all I need.sub zero evenings needs a little help to catch up. stove is centrally located in home ( somers heat or Timberidge are the names on it at Lowes or Home depot, may be a tad twisted on the timber part). I load in the morning get back about 10 hours later still in the mid 60's inside. works for me. Tried the cheap wood furnace ( hotblast $1100 USS) that didn't work out as it would only run about 4 hours of usable heat, additionally I could never trust its auto damper system. Its fine if you are there all day to baby it. Friend has a Daka which is similar it also has runaway on him a couple times.


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## fields_mj (Mar 25, 2013)

I've got a 1960 Ranch, 1800 sq ft, with a full basement. I've currently got an add on furnace that was built in 1980, and it heats just fine. It has a 27" deep firebox, draft blower, brick lined, and a 10"x10" door. I cut my wood 23" long give or take an inch. That seems to be the sweat spot for my stove. I split it down to about 6"~8" so that it fits through the door easy enough. If it gets down below zero, with a full load of hard wood it will burn over 10 hrs and do just fine. If I had an entire winter of that weather, I would be using about 5 cords. This winter I've used almost 4 cords, and I've burned pretty much straight through since Thanksgiving. I started burning in early October of an evening this year, and was burning all day by mid November. I run the fan on my NG furnace all winter long, but set its thermostat at 69 degrees. The wood furnace keeps the house above 72 degrees. On warmer days, I cut my rounds in half (11"~12" long). This lets me burn when the weather gets up into the 40s, but it does require that I clean my chimney more often. I brush it out and empty it once a month whether I need to or not. Takes about 15 min, and most of that time is sucking the creosote out of the bottom with my shop vac. 

All in all, I'm very happy with what I have. I will need to replace my furnace in the next few years, and when I do I'll probably go with a Yukon. If you already have a forced air furnace, and especially if it's in a location where the debris from firewood is not a consern, I can't imagine a reason NOT to go with an add on furnace. The ability to utilze the existing heat ducts and cold air returns is a HUGE deal in my book. 

Either way, ditch the box store idea, and get some personal recomendations on good stove shops in your area. Right now you're stuck on the idea that you want to minimize your up front costs. What you're not understanding is that for ever $100 you save on the front end, you'll spend a extra $200 every year for as long as you're el-chepo box store solution lasts, and your big-box store solution will be doing good to last half as long as a good quality product that only costs %10%~20% more. This is one of those decisions where you need to be looking well past the end of your nose. Otherwise, you're going to run smack into a brick wall. 

Just my 2 bits,
Mark


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## sunfish (Mar 25, 2013)

A wood stove will heat your house just fine. *If you get a 'Good' wood stove*. It will also burn a lot less wood than a furnace.

Look at the top brand stoves, Jotul would be my choice, based on 30+ years of heating with wood stoves. Not Lowe's or Home depot. Cheap ass china made stoves are not worth the scrap price of the metal they are made of...


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## Fyrebug (Mar 25, 2013)

Just to confirm what some of the folks have said here... A wood stove is a 'zone heater' that is, it has no means to transport heat from here to there. You have to look at your layout and determine placement where heat will radiate best. You may want to help it with judicious placement of fans. Also for that kind of square footage you'll probably need 2 stoves.

While I agree with the gentleman who pointed out Jotul makes good stoves you can also get some decent value from big box stores Drolet which we make for example or Englander. 

As others pointed out a wood furnace might be your best bet. Check out this thread that I just started. http://www.arboristsite.com/firewood-heating-wood-burning-equipment/232092.htm

There is an excellent dealer of stoves and furnace in SW PA. I'll PM you the info if you intend on kicking some tires. 

All the best!


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## 2rod511 (Mar 25, 2013)

sunfish said:


> A wood stove will heat your house just fine. *If you get a 'Good' wood stove*. It will also burn a lot less wood than a furnace.
> 
> Look at the top brand stoves, Jotul would be my choice, based on 30+ years of heating with wood stoves. Not Lowe's or Home depot. Cheap ass china made stoves are not worth the scrap price of the metal they are made of...



A wood stove will heat the area directly around where it is located the remainder of the home will remain cold and that is a fact. A blower or a fan will not push warm air throughout a 3000 sqft house and I will guarantee you of that. I heated with a wood stove for many years and though it did not burn as much wood as my OWB it couldn't keep the house warm either. If you could set a heater of any kind in the middle of your house and circulate the heat throughout there would be no need for ductwork and forced air. A wood stove is the best heat when you are sitting right in front of it, but walk to the other side of the house and tell me how good it feels.


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## Como (Mar 26, 2013)

Depends on the Building etc.

And how even you want the temperature.

I heat 1500 sq ft very comfortably with one stove, but it is tight and well insulated, certainly no passivhouse.

I also have a commercial building with 2 stoves and the stoves mitigate the amount of propane used.

We have hit -40F but usually get a lot of passive solar during the day. This winter has been relatively mild.

I could see a stove heating 3,000 sq ft IF designed to do that. Unlikely to be the case in this situation.


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## sunfish (Mar 26, 2013)

2rod511 said:


> A wood stove will heat the area directly around where it is located the remainder of the home will remain cold and that is a fact. A blower or a fan will not push warm air throughout a 3000 sqft house and I will guarantee you of that. I heated with a wood stove for many years and though it did not burn as much wood as my OWB it couldn't keep the house warm either. If you could set a heater of any kind in the middle of your house and circulate the heat throughout there would be no need for ductwork and forced air. A wood stove is the best heat when you are sitting right in front of it, but walk to the other side of the house and tell me how good it feels.



3000 sq ft is definitely pushing the limit of a single stove. 

I personally would rather heat with a stove, so I would figure out a way.


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## Tree Feller (Mar 26, 2013)

I was heating a 2400 sqft house with a single englander stove in the basement for four years. Ths stairs leading up was located right in front og the stove so alot of heat went upstairs. The problem was the stove was in one one of the house so the two bedromms above it was a constant 78 degrees, while the master bedroom and bath on the other end struggled to get to 65. i tried fans a blower on the stove and everything, could not get the air to move evenly. So i put in a OWB last month and i LOVE it. My air handler which was already installed moves the air and heats the house a even 76 degrees no problem. And no mess in the basement and I dont find my self burning anymore wood than i did with the stove! Personally I would go with a OWB. Good Luck!!!


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## Ironworker (Mar 27, 2013)

2rod511 said:


> A wood stove will heat the area directly around where it is located the remainder of the home will remain cold and that is a fact. A blower or a fan will not push warm air throughout a 3000 sqft house and I will guarantee you of that. I heated with a wood stove for many years and though it did not burn as much wood as my OWB it couldn't keep the house warm either. If you could set a heater of any kind in the middle of your house and circulate the heat throughout there would be no need for ductwork and forced air. A wood stove is the best heat when you are sitting right in front of it, but walk to the other side of the house and tell me how good it feels.



I heat my 3200 sq. ft. home with a Lopi Freedom insert with a fan and have no problem what so ever, for a matter of fact once it gets into the mid 30's I don't use the fan.


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## 2rod511 (Mar 27, 2013)

greyfox said:


> I heat my 3200 sq. ft. home with a Lopi Freedom insert with a fan and have no problem what so ever, for a matter of fact once it gets into the mid 30's I don't use the fan.



I will take you at your word but I used to use a Craft Stove insert and could not successfully heat my 2000 sqft house. Hell I don't live in New York either I live in NC. An insert won't radiate heat like a free standing stove. There is a lot of heat that comes off the stove pipe too on a free standing stove. I guess it depends on what you consider heating your house. My grand father, father, myself, and many other relatives and friends have both burnt wood either in an insert or free standing stove all my life and none could heat there entire house. There is no way I would recommend anyone who wants to install a wood burning system to put in anything other than a OWB. Who wants to install stove pipe, carry wood and insects inside, clean a chimney or stove pipe, and listen to wife's constant biatching about smell and ashes and dust. Then on top of that it won't even heat your house.


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## sunfish (Mar 27, 2013)

2rod511 said:


> I will take you at your word but I used to use a Craft Stove insert and could not successfully heat my 2000 sqft house. Hell I don't live in New York either I live in NC. An insert won't radiate heat like a free standing stove. There is a lot of heat that comes off the stove pipe too on a free standing stove. I guess it depends on what you consider heating your house. My grand father, father, myself, and many other relatives and friends have both burnt wood either in an insert or free standing stove all my life and none could heat there entire house. There is no way I would recommend anyone who wants to install a wood burning system to put in anything other than a OWB. Who wants to install stove pipe, carry wood and insects inside, clean a chimney or stove pipe, and listen to wife's constant biatching about smell and ashes and dust. Then on top of that it won't even heat your house.



Myself, brother, sister, father, ants, uncles and friends have been heating with free standing wood stoves all our lives. Heats all the houses just fine. Works fine when the electric is down too.

It's cool that you prefer a OWB, but not everybody does. I wouldn't take one for free. :msp_smile:


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## Chris-PA (Mar 27, 2013)

sunfish said:


> Myself, brother, sister, father, ants, uncles and friends have been heating with free standing wood stoves all our lives. Heats all the houses just fine. Works fine when the electric is down too.
> 
> It's cool that you prefer a OWB, but not everybody does. I wouldn't take one for free. :msp_smile:


Well said. We heat our house with free standing wood stoves (a large and a small). We disconnected the old oil fired system a couple of years ago, so we have no back up but some space heaters. We use the air handler from the old system to distribute the heat, but we don't have to really. The power goes out here often, and while we have a generator I like that my heat requires nothing but wood. I would never want the complexity of a OWB or a furnace. Passive radiant heat is the attraction for me.


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## sunfish (Mar 27, 2013)

WoodHeatWarrior said:


> Well said. We heat our house with free standing wood stoves (a large and a small). We disconnected the old oil fired system a couple of years ago, so we have no back up but some space heaters. We use the air handler from the old system to distribute the heat, but we don't have to really. The power goes out here often, and while we have a generator I like that my heat requires nothing but wood. I would never want the complexity of a OWB or a furnace. Passive radiant heat is the attraction for me.



Right on bro! We much prefer radiant heat around here. Only fan used is a ceiling fan. 
Works great!


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## Encore (Mar 27, 2013)

I've done both the stove and the OWB. Currently all we use is the OWB. 

I loved the stove. Loved having the fire going, the nice toasty living room and the fact like you guys said, it's quiet and simple. 

What wasn't simple was running the fire during the milder times or when I wasn't home for long periods of time. My wife and I are very involved in athletics so we are gone sometimes all day - read 18hrs. So coming home late and having to start a fire just to get the house up to 60 degrees sucked. 

My wife also has pretty significant asthma so the dry air was a problem as was the dust, but we managed. 

The OWB alleviated all of that. We could program the thermostat to kick on 30min before we got home, house is warm, humid heat. No worry about the burn times since we can load about once every 24hrs to 36hrs. Mess is outside. However it is indeed a lot more complicated than a wood stove. To a certain extent I guess. But once you understand how it all works and how to maintain everything, it's actually been less of a hassle than my indoor stove is. I load it once at night and button it up until the next day. That's it. The wood is piled right next to it so it's not a big deal. The stove literally takes care of itself right now. 

End of burning season we'll have some maintance stuff but nothing really time consuming. 

The key is finding a setup that fits both your lifestyle and makes you happy. We all work way too hard to be unsatisfied with the final product that we use at the end of the day.


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## 2rod511 (Mar 27, 2013)

I am not saying there is anything wrong with a wood stove but when me and my wife first bought our house (my grandfather's) and I fired up the insert I knew there had to be a better way. We just had our second child in October and there is no way I could of built the back bedroom into a nursery without the heat an OWB provides. How much experience do you guys have with an OWB have you ever felt the heat that it produces? It is about as complex as your cars radiator. Transfer heat from water to air. It feels like wood stove heat coming through your vents. I have lived in my home with both systems installed, and there is no way you could walk into my house and honestly say it was more comfortable before I installed the OWB. Do you guys cool your house with a window unit or a forced air AC system? Or do you just open the refrigerator door and let the cool air radiate throughout your house?


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## tramp bushler (Mar 28, 2013)

I think they call that a refrigerator infraction . .


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## Como (Mar 28, 2013)

Cooling?

The windows open.


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## deepsouth (Mar 28, 2013)

For me it's funny to read these topics. 

But then I was born and grew up in a sub tropical climate without either heating.... Those 4 degree celcius mornings, rising to 14 with a stiff westerly wind in August were brisk.... But all your warm clothes on together fixed it. :hmm3grin2orange:

Now I live in the deep soth of Tasmania, all 40 degrees south. On the coast, and 2 degree celcius nights are common in winter, with days in the low teens. Could live without heating to be honest. When renovating this 1971 built house back in 2006, put in two split system heat pumps, as power was cheap then at 6c per kWh. Now it's over 3x more expensive. 

Put in a wood stove upstairs last May ahead of winter.... Much warmer. Also have not run that split system at all. Downstairs is much better insulated, but ran that split all winter. Not too expensive as downstairs is double brick plus insulation and double glazed. 

Just need to break the rules and move hot air from the wood stove downstairs..... ????



Even funnier is the fact the split system air con has only done cool when I tested it after install and one time when I needed to cool the house during a relative 35 degree c heat wave when there was no breeze.... Being coastal it's more commonly a howling gale.


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## Chris-PA (Mar 28, 2013)

2rod511 said:


> I am not saying there is anything wrong with a wood stove but when me and my wife first bought our house (my grandfather's) and I fired up the insert I knew there had to be a better way. We just had our second child in October and there is no way I could of built the back bedroom into a nursery without the heat an OWB provides. How much experience do you guys have with an OWB have you ever felt the heat that it produces? It is about as complex as your cars radiator. Transfer heat from water to air. It feels like wood stove heat coming through your vents. I have lived in my home with both systems installed, and there is no way you could walk into my house and honestly say it was more comfortable before I installed the OWB. Do you guys cool your house with a window unit or a forced air AC system? Or do you just open the refrigerator door and let the cool air radiate throughout your house?


We have no A/C, we use windows and fans. One of the fundamental issues is in the differing expectation of constant temperatures people have - different ideas bout what is comfortable or not. I read threads here about people being dissatisfied with the performance of some wood heat system because it does not provide the constant temperatures of the fossil fuel heating systems they're accustomed to. To me, that is irrelevant - I simply don't care if there is a consistent temperature from room to room or over time. We have a lot of stone around the stoves, so it would take a long time for the house to get really cold once they burn down, and that is good enough for us. If we've been gone a while then I expect the house will be cold when I get home - no big deal. On a cold winter morning, our bedroom at the top floor part of the house opposite to the stove will be maybe 52, sometimes 50. That is not uncomfortable to me, and I don't rush about getting dressed. I think we hit 100 a couple of times this year in the basement room with the stove in it. 

When the kids were younger we wanted their rooms more constant, so I ran a circuit to those room and used an electric heat thermostat to control an outlet. We bought two of those oil filled electric heaters, and in the winter we plug them in and turn them up max so the wall thermostat can control them. Now that the kids are getting older we don't use them as much anymore.


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## 2rod511 (Mar 28, 2013)

WoodHeatWarrior said:


> We have no A/C, we use windows and fans. One of the fundamental issues is in the differing expectation of constant temperatures people have - different ideas bout what is comfortable or not. I read threads here about people being dissatisfied with the performance of some wood heat system because it does not provide the constant temperatures of the fossil fuel heating systems they're accustomed to. To me, that is irrelevant - I simply don't care if there is a consistent temperature from room to room or over time. We have a lot of stone around the stoves, so it would take a long time for the house to get really cold once they burn down, and that is good enough for us. If we've been gone a while then I expect the house will be cold when I get home - no big deal. On a cold winter morning, our bedroom at the top floor part of the house opposite to the stove will be maybe 52, sometimes 50. That is not uncomfortable to me, and I don't rush about getting dressed. I think we hit 100 a couple of times this year in the basement room with the stove in it.
> 
> When the kids were younger we wanted their rooms more constant, so I ran a circuit to those room and used an electric heat thermostat to control an outlet. We bought two of those oil filled electric heaters, and in the winter we plug them in and turn them up max so the wall thermostat can control them. Now that the kids are getting older we don't use them as much anymore.



Warrior, I respect your opinion, and I am not trying to be fussy or argumentative, but you kind of made my point for me. It depends on what an individual considers "heating" their house to encompass. If I wanted my house to be 50 or 52 when I woke up, then I would rarely even need to start a fire. 50 or 52 is almost blowing cold smoke, and man you got a hell of a wife. The type of heat a person needs depends largely on their own personal situation. Before I bought the OWB, I would come home from work to a 60 degree max house. Then I would begin to fight the fire to bring the house back to a respectable temperature. Wake up in the morning, and it is time to do it all over again. Now mix in the thousands of other chores that comes with being a father, husband, and part time farmer and it will make you appreciate warm weather.

I stick to my statement that a 3000 sq. ft. house cannot be heated with a wood stove. Temperature extremes like "50 to 100" only further validate that statement. As does the reality that occasionally, you need to supplement your wood stove with other forms of heat. 

If we haven't completely stolen this thread, then to the OP you know what your home situation demands of you and that should determine your heating needs. Unless money is the issue, then a wood furnace or wood boiler will always make for a more comfortable home. You can always set your thermostat at 60 degrees one minute and 85 a couple of hours later if you want to experience "wood stove heat".


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## Ironworker (Mar 29, 2013)

2rod511 said:


> Warrior, I respect your opinion, and I am not trying to be fussy or argumentative, but you kind of made my point for me. It depends on what an individual considers "heating" their house to encompass. If I wanted my house to be 50 or 52 when I woke up, then I would rarely even need to start a fire. 50 or 52 is almost blowing cold smoke, and man you got a hell of a wife. The type of heat a person needs depends largely on their own personal situation. Before I bought the OWB, I would come home from work to a 60 degree max house. Then I would begin to fight the fire to bring the house back to a respectable temperature. Wake up in the morning, and it is time to do it all over again. Now mix in the thousands of other chores that comes with being a father, husband, and part time farmer and it will make you appreciate warm weather.
> 
> I stick to my statement that a 3000 sq. ft. house cannot be heated with a wood stove. Temperature extremes like "50 to 100" only further validate that statement. As does the reality that occasionally, you need to supplement your wood stove with other forms of heat.
> 
> If we haven't completely stolen this thread, then to the OP you know what your home situation demands of you and that should determine your heating needs. Unless money is the issue, then a wood furnace or wood boiler will always make for a more comfortable home. You can always set your thermostat at 60 degrees one minute and 85 a couple of hours later if you want to experience "wood stove heat".


My 3200 sq. ft. Home stays at 68- 72 down stairs and 67-69 upstairs and I have one room over the garage which is the furthest away and that stays between 63-66, if you cannot heat 3000 sq. ft. with a stove than you are doing something wrong, I have 2 other neighbors with similar homes to mine and they have no problem heating with stove inserts and one of them has a smaller Lopi than mine. Only when it gets down to the low teens does my boiler fire up.


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## sunfish (Mar 29, 2013)

We keep our house house between 68 and 78 with a single Jotul 118CB. Prefer closer to 70 than 78... Not as large a house as discussed here, but not a very large stove either. I keep the elec backup set at 65 and it never comes on, even when we get down into the single digits.


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## Chris-PA (Mar 29, 2013)

2rod511 said:


> Warrior, I respect your opinion, and I am not trying to be fussy or argumentative, but you kind of made my point for me. It depends on what an individual considers "heating" their house to encompass. If I wanted my house to be 50 or 52 when I woke up, then I would rarely even need to start a fire. 50 or 52 is almost blowing cold smoke, and man you got a hell of a wife. The type of heat a person needs depends largely on their own personal situation. Before I bought the OWB, I would come home from work to a 60 degree max house. Then I would begin to fight the fire to bring the house back to a respectable temperature. Wake up in the morning, and it is time to do it all over again. Now mix in the thousands of other chores that comes with being a father, husband, and part time farmer and it will make you appreciate warm weather.
> 
> I stick to my statement that a 3000 sq. ft. house cannot be heated with a wood stove. Temperature extremes like "50 to 100" only further validate that statement. As does the reality that occasionally, you need to supplement your wood stove with other forms of heat.
> 
> If we haven't completely stolen this thread, then to the OP you know what your home situation demands of you and that should determine your heating needs. Unless money is the issue, then a wood furnace or wood boiler will always make for a more comfortable home. You can always set your thermostat at 60 degrees one minute and 85 a couple of hours later if you want to experience "wood stove heat".


Agreed - it is a matter of expectations, and that in turn is all about how much energy you use and the instantaneous rate of energy release (power) the system is capable of. 

If you want to ensure a constant higher temperature then you must have a higher capacity heater. I could easily heat mine hotter with the stoves I have, I'd just need to load them more often which I don't always care to do. If I run both stoves hard we'd have the windows open for relief. 

An OWB (or any system with a big firebox) will allow you to have a lot more wood in a larger firebox, which allows higher temperatures in the short term (higher output) and/or longer burns to prevent having to load it as often - at the cost of higher mechanical complexity, dependance on electrical power, and using more wood.

The right answer for anyone will depend on what they are expecting the system to do.


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## mopar969 (Apr 1, 2013)

Thanks everybody for all of your input, Much Appreciated! Even though I think I can heat my house with a wood stove I am going with a wood furnace and here is why. I have noticed that alot of wood furnaces can also burn coal. Here in Southwestern PA Ican get run of the mill coal for 75 dollars a ton and nice large cleaned col for 90 dollars a ton. Therefore, I am going with a furnace because I am going to burn coal instaed of wood as my primary heat source. Since coal burns hotter I am trying to figure out which furnace I should get. Whewn I was looking at the englander add on furnace it can heat 3000 sq feet but it is only rated at 80,000 btus. Then I looked at a hotblast and it is rated at 125,000 btus but it says it can only heat 1500 sq ft.?http://www.arboristsite.com/images/smilies/confused.gif 

Since coal burns hotter can I heat my house using a smaller furnace, I am lost with what btus companies can say heat up a certain area but not others? 

By the way my current oil furnace is rated at 112,000 for my large well insulated brick house. However, the furnace guy was always worried that it is a little underpowered for my house.


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## brenndatomu (Apr 1, 2013)

Just an FYI, if you don't find the info you need here, try nepacrossroads.com coal burning enthusiasts forum, lots of knowledgeable guys on there.

For what it's worth, I don't see the Englander heating 3000 sq ft unless that is 80k BTU is averaged out over the burn cycle of 1 load of wood (coal) and I doubt that it is. Probably a typo...
The Hotblast # sounds more realistic.

Edit, I looked up the Englander, there is no way that thing will heat 3000 ft, it only has a 850 cfm blower. The BTUs needed to heat 3000 ft would quickly melt that whimpy lil blower into a puddle! I call BS on their #s!

If you're thinking coal burning, look at the Yukon SuperJack. I think it would do a nice job for you since you no longer need a sophisticated secondary burn system, and like I said before, they're built like a tank! I say the SJ, because the BJ and SJ are the same unit except the SJ has the secondary heat exchanger which gives it the extra 35k BTUs. 35k extra BTU is a lot of efficiency gained!


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## laynes69 (Apr 1, 2013)

If your going for a coal furnace, get a Hitzer or a Harman. Most wood/coal furnaces won't burn coal correctly. While the hot blast advertises coal, it's a poor anthracite burner and doesn't have the correct firebox shape. The Yukon also advertises coal, but the company doesn't know much about it. Those who successfully burned coal, had to modify some things on their Yukons.


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## Fyrebug (Apr 1, 2013)

+1 on Layne's comments. Hitzer makes a great product and built like a tank by the Amish. 

Don't know enough about the other brands or coal to comment. All the Hitzer users & dealers seem happy enough.


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## brenndatomu (Apr 1, 2013)

That's true the Hitzer and Harman are quality units, not sure where they come in on the price range though. Also true that the Yukons burn coal better with a mod, but it is just drilling a hole in the front of the ash pan door for constant under fire air.
I seen a video on utube of a guy that was getting good results burning coal in, I'm pretty sure it was a Hotblast, I think he was in PA. too.


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## mopar969 (Apr 1, 2013)

The reason that I was thinking of a hotblast is because parts are easily available. I have heard that since coal has a lot more btus than wood their is times where the fire can get to hot and damage or melt the grate. My other option besides a hot blast or us stove is the daka furnace at northern tool. I was looking at the smaller one that offers 42000-105000 btu's to heat my large house(about 3800 3900 sq ft), I think since my furnace is at 112,000 this will be enough or should I go one size bigger. However to use coal in the daka I need to order the special grate kit. I have not heard of this brand before and this day and age I would hate to buy something this important and the company closes and now I can no longer get parts!!

Let me know what you think and thanks for all input with my choice.


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## laynes69 (Apr 1, 2013)

Grates warp when ash accumulates in the ash pan. The air going thru the grates when clean helps cool them. Parts on the hotblast aren't bulletproof, the shaker grates break easily. The firebox also on the hotblast is a v shape, you want a square sides with a full shaker grate bottom. Rolling grates are almost bulletproof and last a while, which are used on the higher end coal burners. 2-8" outlets will NOT heat 3800 sqft. You not only need the btu output but an open plenum with a strong blower. I would bet you would be disappointed and burn out a hotblast fairly quick. You get a unit designed to burn anthracite coal and you'll be happy, get a bad one and there's nothing more frustrating. Had a hotblast 1500 wood/coal furnace here for almost 25 years.


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## brenndatomu (Apr 1, 2013)

Just throwing out another option for you if you're thinking of going with something from a big box store. Menards carries Shelter brand wood/coal furnaces. I don't know anyone that has one or much about them, I just thought they looked well built and had a slick shaker grate system for the money. I think there was a larger one that could be ordered that was rated for larger homes.

Edit: Looked them up, the Shelter SF2631 is 150k BTU and has the 6" flue for ya! I think this is the model my local Menards had on display, if memory serves, it was around $1500.


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## Como (Apr 1, 2013)

I know at least one person who has not heating system, proper design and a lot of passive solar.

If built to current good standards you could only need 40,000 Btus peak for 4,000sq ft.

For comparison purposes my location has 10,500 HDD.


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## Fyrebug (Apr 2, 2013)

mopar969 said:


> The reason that I was thinking of a hotblast is because parts are easily available. I have heard that since coal has a lot more btus than wood their is times where the fire can get to hot and damage or melt the grate. My other option besides a hot blast or us stove is the daka furnace at northern tool. I was looking at the smaller one that offers 42000-105000 btu's to heat my large house(about 3800 3900 sq ft), I think since my furnace is at 112,000 this will be enough or should I go one size bigger. However to use coal in the daka I need to order the special grate kit. I have not heard of this brand before and this day and age I would hate to buy something this important and the company closes and now I can no longer get parts!!
> 
> Let me know what you think and thanks for all input with my choice.



“There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.” 
― John Ruskin

Long after the euphoria of a 'good deal' dissipates, comes the harsh reality of broken promises...

The problem with buying 'cheap' is that money is as good as flushed down the toilet. There are happy users of cheaper furnaces but such poeple realize they must replace parts on an ongoing basis and put up with noisier and less peforming appliances.

If you want a good store in your area, go to Heating World in Loretto. They specialize in furnaces and boilers (wood, pellet, coal). They have the cheap ones (Hotblast) and the expensive ones. At least pick their brains and they'll help you make the right decision.


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## mopar969 (Jun 2, 2013)

I apologize to rise this thread from the grave. However, I am officially going with wood and it is ready to go for this winter. Here is my plan and let me know what you think. 

I was going to buy a wood stove then put heating water coils like here in it: http://www.ebay.com/itm/WOOD-STOVE-...MESTIC-HEATING-WOOD-COAL-STOVES-/251038489087

Then connect it to a heat exchanger and use my existing furnace fan to blow over the exchanger to heat the whole house. Therefore, I will heat my entire house off of one stove which will be very nice and efficient. My question is has anyone ever done this or have experience with this.


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## brenndatomu (Jun 3, 2013)

It's been done. You will find yourself woefully lacking the BTUs that you need to do the job...
If you are dead set on using a HX in your forced air furnace, you need to put in a wood fired boiler.
An add on wood furnace would be easier, cheaper.


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## mopar969 (Jun 3, 2013)

I thought that since I am also using the radiant heat and the btu's from the hot water, I can heat my large house with a relatively medium sized 2000 sq ft stove?


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## Como (Jun 3, 2013)

mopar969 said:


> I apologize to rise this thread from the grave. However, I am officially going with wood and it is ready to go for this winter. Here is my plan and let me know what you think.
> 
> I was going to buy a wood stove then put heating water coils like here in it: Wood Stove Hot Water Coil I6T Kit Hydronic Domestic Heating Wood Coal Stoves | eBay
> 
> Then connect it to a heat exchanger and use my existing furnace fan to blow over the exchanger to heat the whole house. Therefore, I will heat my entire house off of one stove which will be very nice and efficient. My question is has anyone ever done this or have experience with this.



How many coils would you need?


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## mopar969 (Jun 3, 2013)

I am not sure how many coils I would need. I am going to email this company: [email protected] tell them what I am trying to do and hopefully they will let me know. However, if anyone on this forum has this set up let me know. Thanks.


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## Fyrebug (Jun 4, 2013)

mopar969 said:


> I apologize to rise this thread from the grave. However, I am officially going with wood and it is ready to go for this winter. Here is my plan and let me know what you think.
> 
> I was going to buy a wood stove then put heating water coils like here in it: Wood Stove Hot Water Coil I6T Kit Hydronic Domestic Heating Wood Coal Stoves | eBay
> 
> Then connect it to a heat exchanger and use my existing furnace fan to blow over the exchanger to heat the whole house. Therefore, I will heat my entire house off of one stove which will be very nice and efficient. My question is has anyone ever done this or have experience with this.



The problem with this is if you have a high-efficiency EPA rated stove it already extract as much as 80% or more of the heat from the stove. If your setup extracts an extra 5%-15% you will have major drafting problems. Especially if you have tee's and elbows in your venting/chimney system.

If you have an old smoke dragon then it should work fine.


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## Como (Jun 4, 2013)

mopar969 said:


> I am not sure how many coils I would need. I am going to email this company: [email protected] tell them what I am trying to do and hopefully they will let me know. However, if anyone on this forum has this set up let me know. Thanks.



I would be interested to know.


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