# Openly admitting being an "amateur" + free gear = good idea or irresponsible?



## VTabone123

I would love to read your comments on this. He got all the free gear he needed to accomplish this job due to his popularity on youtube, carried himself like he knew what he was doing during the video, but it looked to me he like he almost killed himself and maybe almost taken a few fingers off a time or two, and then at the end said, "well not to bad for a couple of amateurs" Anyone else see a problem here? I mean should amateurs be ordering their own gear from the site he is plugging and start doing stuff like this themselves? Looked super dangerous and just plain irresponsible to me. But maybe I'm wrong. Love to read your comments.


----------



## Str8six

I'm not sure what to think. They didn't die so that's a plus. I'm sure they all learned a lot. All in all, I completely understand what your saying. How would treestuff feel if someone had got injured or killed? That's not good advertisement and I wouldn't want it on my conscience. Maybe it's just a little population control.


----------



## mike515

I'm surprised Treestuff would give them gear. That guy has absolutely no business being in that tree. He's clearly inexperienced but what may be even worse is his inexperience coupled with the inexperience of everyone on the ground. They have to be instructed on how to use a friction device....that means if something happens to the climber...he's going to be hanging up there for a while....probably until the fire dept arrives to get him down. Yet another video of someone getting lucky. 

This reminds me of a time I was driving home from work and I saw something just like this happening (shorter conifer...maybe 40-45 ft tall). I stopped to watch and then texted my wife to tell her I'd be late. I had all of my gear with me so I asked if they wanted some free professional help. I think they knew they were in too deep and readily accepted my offer. I climbed up to where this guy was lodged in with no climbing gear at all. He had just cut out the very top of the tree as I arrived. It went the wrong way, nearly knocked him out of the tree and barely missed the house (he hadn't bothered to remove and lower branches...just cut the top and pray). When I got up there he introduced himself and said "Boy, am I glad to see you!" I introduced myself and said "Interesting place to meet someone for the first time" and asked him to climb down and keep the area clear. I got it all on the ground for them and there was a huge mess left but it was free and nobody got hurt. They offered me some minimal amount of money. I politely declined but told them "Just please don't try that again."


----------



## TaoTreeClimber

Hmmmmmmm. I got a feeling this is gonna get real interesting.


----------



## mike515

The guy seemed to know how to use the gear so he must have some experience but still....


----------



## RajElectric

I don't know what to say. IMHO you need a climber familiar with his gear (and the tree) to preform a good, safe take down, and ground workers familiar with a take down around power lines. I'm not sure of how close the work was to the lines, not something that should be left to more luck than knowledge and experience. Having said that, I've seen "big tree companies" use some seriously bad practices around HV lines, but it was evident they had rookies doing the job.

Glad it came down and no one was hurt.


----------



## BuckmasterStumpGrinding

Wow... I'm betting people that watch that video and we're considering cutting down their own tree will now be calling a pro.


----------



## jefflovstrom

TaoTreeClimber said:


> Hmmmmmmm. I got a feeling this is gonna get real interesting.



Why?
Are you holding back a little? Like me?
How all that talking about the scariest ever in his life. 
Anyway he got it done, I just would not of put it up for critique,
Jeff


----------



## TaoTreeClimber

Im just sayin that it has potential. Lets wait and see what transpires shall we??? Oh, and by the way. HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!


----------



## rwoods

FWIW this guy has all kinds of videos; he is a self proclaimed evaluator of just about everything. Here's one of his axe tests gone a muck:  Ron


----------



## TaoTreeClimber

I was wondering if some one else was gonna research this guy.


----------



## LegDeLimber

Just for a moment here, Let's skip the power lines and other targets
and assume his hinge was good, plus properly aimed.
Alrighty then. Was the climber getting trunk-slapped just simply 
the ground crowd didn't feed the line when it time to do so?
That's my gut thought at least.
If not:
Was the friction device rigged correctly, enough wraps on the tube, too many?
I expect that may be very much influenced by the particular rope used and it's condition.
Rope on the correct side of the tree?
Now if the rope snagged or tangled, I'm sorry that I couldn't see it in the video.
My eyes and flash video don't mesh so greatly.


----------



## BuckmasterStumpGrinding

They said they had five wraps on the porty. They should have had one wrap and a loose grip just to slow it down. There were no targets under the tree so a controlled crash would have been fine if they had just let it run all the way to the ground while they are getting a feel for the porty.


----------



## VTabone123

Looked like too many wraps the on port-a-wrap which caused the top to come to a dead stop resulting in serious shock force. I read a comment on the video where someone asked him if his chest is bruised, which he replied saying that it was. On his newest video he also states he has some serious arm pain and that he taking a couple days rest.

My biggest issue with the video, aside from the fact that the shock load caused by his ignorance could have killed him, is the irresponsibility of the whole thing. He carried himself and instructed his crew as though he knew what he was talking about, and in reality only "kinda" knew. He has a large following, people do what he does. After the whole thing he openly admits to being an amateur, plugs a company for all the "free gear" provided, and praises himself for a job well done. All the time having no regard for others who will watch it, who may be ordering gear with the intent to attempt something like this, thinking "if amateurs can do it...well i'm an amateur I can do this", and getting seriously hurt or killed in the process.

I'm not going to lie. I have done stupid stuff before. Now had I video taped myself doing it, I certainly wouldn't post it online. Now lets say I was ignorant to the fact that what I was doing was stupid, and posted the video thinking I had done "good" but in reality just got lucky. I would hope I would have enough sense to take the video down after learning of my ignorance.

But what can you do. I just wanted to hear your all's take on it.


----------



## TheGoodFellers

Am I allowed to feel disgusted with treestuff.com? This man could have killed himself.. Its like handing a 395 to the kid that just started working for you...


----------



## LegDeLimber

Well if you take all of the "oops" vids down, Seems you loose a lot information
about the things to Not do.
I always thought the Three Stooges films were some of the better safety videos.
If there was a way to set something up for an accident, They worked it into the script.
But then that's just the racket from one city-idiot (me) holding a coffee mug, while sitting on his backside
in front of a computer.


----------



## lone wolf

BuckmasterStumpGrinding said:


> They said they had five wraps on the porty. They should have had one wrap and a loose grip just to slow it down. There were no targets under the tree so a controlled crash would have been fine if they had just let it run all the way to the ground while they are getting a feel for the porty.


5 wraps would hold the whole tree !


----------



## lone wolf

TheGoodFellers said:


> Am I allowed to feel disgusted with treestuff.com? This man could have killed himself.. Its like handing a 395 to the kid that just started working for you...


How could know what they were dealing with exactly anyway?


----------



## mike515

They had to have had at least some idea of what he was doing to give him all that gear. A pro would probably have his own gear. And they didn't just donate $100 worth of stuff. They gave him a lot. They probably instructed him on how to use it...which only further supports the idea that they knew he didn't know what he was doing.


----------



## Grey

rwoods said:


> FWIW this guy has all kinds of videos; he is a self proclaimed evaluator of just about everything. Here's one of his axe tests gone a muck:  Ron



What a dork! I've seen several of this guy's vids and they are lame. P.S. Why is this guy filming his girl while driving his car????!!!!!!!!! More dangerous than all of his "homesteading" activities combined.


----------



## rwoods

VTabone123 said:


> Looked like too many wraps ... he taking a couple days rest.
> 
> *My biggest issue with the video*, aside from the fact that the shock load caused by his ignorance could have killed him, *is the irresponsibility of the whole thing. He carried himself and instructed his crew as though he knew what he was talking about, and in reality only "kinda" knew. He has a large following, people do what he does.* After the whole thing he openly admits to being an amateur, plugs a company for all the "free gear" provided, and praises himself for a job well done. All the time having no regard for others who will watch it, who may be ordering gear with the intent to attempt something like this, thinking "if amateurs can do it...well i'm an amateur I can do this", and *getting seriously hurt or killed in the process.*
> 
> ...



VTabone123, welcome to AS. I don't know squat about climbing and topping trees but I do understand your point that I highlighted. Checkout the other AS forums, especially the chainsaw forum, and you will see many examples of the same irresponsibility. I doubt most of them are intentionally disregarding the potential bad consequences to those who follow. It seems that there is something about a video camera that shuts off part of the brain. Ron


----------



## VTabone123

Hi rwoods. I will check the other AS forums. I appreciate the welcome and agree with you. The video camera must shut off part of peoples brain.


----------



## lone wolf

mike515 said:


> They had to have had at least some idea of what he was doing to give him all that gear. A pro would probably have his own gear. And they didn't just donate $100 worth of stuff. They gave him a lot. They probably instructed him on how to use it...which only further supports the idea that they knew he he didn't know what he was doing.


That makes sense too.


----------



## TaoTreeClimber

Not my circus, not my monkeys. I seem to say that alot these days.


----------



## Zale

That was entertaining. I liked when he got slammed by the tree and you hear his breath getting knocked out of him. Good stuff. Lets see, new rope and new porta-wrap along with five wraps and it locks up? Go figure. Notice how he didn't block down those pieces. He had probably had enough and would take his chances free falling them.


----------



## tidy

LegDeLimber said:


> Was the climber getting trunk-slapped just simply
> the ground crowd didn't feed the line when it time to do so?
> That's my gut thought at least.
> If not:
> Was the friction device rigged correctly, enough wraps on the tube, too many?
> I expect that may be very much influenced by the particular rope used and it's condition.
> Rope on the correct side of the tree?
> Now if the rope snagged or tangled, I'm sorry that I couldn't see it in the video.
> My eyes and flash video don't mesh so greatly.



He told the groundies to put FIVE WRAPS on the porty lol. I love seeing numpties instructing other numpties on expert numptyness


----------



## 7highclimber7

So many things running through my mind after watching this video. This post might get a little scrambled. First, how was there not a proper explanations on how to rig out a top. This climber has obviously been around some sort of tree service work prior to this tree. He said he had old gear and no one just jumps into an 80 foot removal totally green. Top priority in his eyes is to stay in the tree, while the top is coming down. 5 wraps on a porta wrap is basically locking it off. Any body that has been around this line of work knows how to use a porta wrap, and SHOULD know that it needs to run. There didn't seem to be any detailed explanation on how the rigging should go. If I'm in a tree, I'm making damn sure the ground guys are on the same page as I am. I can't believe treestuff(company I use for most my gear lately) would allow there name to be connected to such a sketchy removal. I guess it shows even though the gear should be used by trained "professionals", it can keep a sketchy rookie from falling out.


----------



## TC262

Because the thousands of people who watch this guy probably think he did a great job and treestuff was able to reach out to a huge new audience by having this moron plug their name. It's cheap marketing to an entirely new audience.


----------



## TC262

Just looked it up, he has 171,000 subscribers on his U Tube channel. I've seen other tree videos he has and some are pretty sketchy, but his followers praise his jobs well done because they don't know any better.


----------



## lone wolf

What I dont understand is how hard would have been to get a real tree crew to do all that? I guess they may have believed these guys were the real deal ?


----------



## ArcticOverland

Cody Crone is the guys name. 'His girl' is his sister, Corrin. His lovely wife is in many of his videos.

I think anyone with a bit of common sense can see that everyone in that video is a bit green when it comes to taking down that tree. He didn't hold himself up as an expert, just a guy helping a friend.

Cody is just a guy who does his best and works with what he has. He's a good guy, loves his family, gives back to his community and volunteers with the local FD and WFS. He's been around saws and big trees a long time and it's clear from his other videos that he tries to be safe and sensible in his approach to things.

He's not a 'know it all', he's not trying to give instruction either on that video. He's just showing how it went for them and in all fairness, he'd openly admit there's plenty of room for improvement I'm sure.

The company who supplied the gear didn't do a bad thing here. Cody had almost 200k subscribers and they're in business to supply what people want to buy. If they can sell basic tools and equipment to his viewers, why not? Not everyone will agree, but not everyone's going to rush out and buy a full climbing rig to go topping trees. Most will want some axes, chainsaw supplies and PPE. 

I'm new to AS but I've been a Wranglerstar viewer for a long time now. I don't like everything he does or agree with some of his beliefs about certain things, but it's clear to see that he's a good man. We should all remember that with regard to EVERYONE we don't actually know. Give some benefit of the doubt while you get to know a man for who and what he is.

Criticise the actions in this case but don't belittle or judge based on your impression from this one video. If you have something to share, do it on his YouTube channel. Be honest and be kind and he will appreciate every bit of constructive feedback he receives.

He has this saying, I believe from scriptures, which goes something like 'As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another'. 

I may get a real roasting here for this reply. I hope not. You're good guys too, so cut the guy some slack!


----------



## TC262

I've seen quite a few of his videos in the past, mostly looked up stuff tree related. I remember some of his other videos giving some pretty bad advice, but you are def. right about him being an all around good guy.


----------



## Wannabe123

Well if nothing else this discussion provides the wiser greenhorns out there with some perspective on what you ought not take on without some expert guidance. Seldom do things in real life work like you think you saw on youtube.


----------



## TheGoodFellers

Nice guys die all the time. Its not about the character its the work. He is getting ripped into because of the job he took on & the quality of his work... He has promoted a tree removal for do it your selfers... Now we are going to see a couple of his viewers spend a few hundred bucks & do their own work... I can not stress how dangerous that sounds.. There will be major injuries over this video. What about the primary's!! If the top went any other way... He would have been a candle. Maybe I'm confused but didnt we need to get certified to work near power lines? I would have more respect for him if he consulted an expert.. We all know accidents happen in this trade.. Perhaps its best to leave things to the professionals. This video made it look possible for an amateur with a rope and saw to do work in a tree.. 

tree stuff.com slapped every one of us in the face for supporting this guy. It makes me sick because I liked them so much. I hope this plug was worth it.


----------



## rwoods

ArcticOverland,

Welcome to AS. 

There is no doubt in my mind that Cody is "good" guy and that we sometimes overreact. But I for one am not going to second guess the posters that do tree work for a living when they say his disclaimer isn't enough to protect an ignorant follower or that the job shown is particularly dangerous to the inexperienced. In my opinion, no matter how good or smart we are there is a limit to what we should undertake to show others especially when we have little to no actual experience ourselves.

I truly appreciate your comments and those of the others. Unfortunately, many threads around here would have turned ugly by now.

Ron


----------



## ArcticOverland

Thanks for the welcome Ron!

I just watched the video a second time and I guess that on a more 'critical' viewing he's a bit light on the disclaimers and maybe could have summarised that there was a measure of luck involved and that it should never be counted on as part of a felling plan. I'm reluctant to put it down to brazen bravado or anything like that and maybe think he just missed it in the edit and was still jacked on adrenalin and a sense of accomplishment when all the footage was filmed.

There's no way I'd take inspiration from his videos to do things the way he does all the time, especially when it comes to something like roping that tree or sometimes shortcuts on safety measures that are taken. He got a good thump in the chest and that was enough to show me clearly it wasn't done right. I've enough experience of SAR rigging and have spent my time reluctantly hanging under S61's on a wire to know unnecessary risks were being taken there and his accomplices weren't the confident backup I'd want them to be. Total agreement here on all of those criticisms and concerns.

Anyways, thanks again!


----------



## DMD

Rigging the top out seemed to be unnecessary considering he chunked the trunk down.
All in all this was a very simple tree to remove. A good climber could have had the whole tree on the ground in less than 90 minutes.

TreeStuff.com is a great company but I know if I was the owner of Tree Stuff watching that video I would have cringed and regretted giving the man $2000 in free gear. Sure they got their name out there to a lot of folks outside of arboriculture but at what cost.


----------



## tidy

The unspoken message of the video says "amateurs can safely take down trees with the right equipment"...


----------



## Wannabe123

tidy said:


> The unspoken message of the video says "amateurs can safely take down trees with the right equipment"...


Even without it if they watch enough youtube videos.


----------



## BC WetCoast

If you watch enough You Tubes, you will see experts (and not so experts) doing dangerous stuff all the time. Sometimes it's because an expert is so comfortable with his skills, he he doesn't need things like machine guards (watch Jimmy Diresta use a bandsaw). And the Safety Police are constantly hammering away at them. 

My thought is, if a person who watches a you tube and doesn't have the common sense to determine when they shouldn't do something because they don't have the necessary skills, then let accept that Darwin was right and natural selection should take it's course.


----------



## tidy

I definately prefer the youtube videos where it goes bad- maybe these types of "instructional diy" videos will give those a boost


----------



## rwoods

BC WetCoast said:


> If you watch enough You Tubes, you will see experts (and not so experts) doing dangerous stuff all the time. Sometimes it's because an expert is so comfortable with his skills, he he doesn't need things like machine guards (watch Jimmy Diresta use a bandsaw). And the Safety Police are constantly hammering away at them.
> 
> My thought is, if a person who watches a you tube and doesn't have the common sense to determine when they shouldn't do something because they don't have the necessary skills, then let accept that Darwin was right and natural selection should take it's course.



I dare say most safety devices have there place even with the expert. Without a doubt combined, knowledge and common sense are more useful. These seem to be diminishing in today's world. 

I cannot agree with your final conclusion. I doubt you would either if someone close to you was seriously injured or killed due to their ignorance as to what skills are required, what risks are posed or just due to a general lack of knowledge or common sense.

Ron


----------



## Wannabe123

rwoods said:


> I dare say most safety devices have there place even with the expert. Without a doubt combined, knowledge and common sense are more useful. These seem to be diminishing in today's world.
> 
> I cannot agree with your final conclusion. I doubt you would either if someone close to you was seriously injured or killed due to their ignorance as to what skills are required, what risks are posed or just due to a general lack of knowledge or common sense.
> 
> Ron



Agree in general, (not just specific to tree work and saws etc) to the first part. It's pretty obvious that neither safety equipment or experience/skill individually can guarantee bad stuff doesn't happen, but of course nothing really can. I have in my professions taken many risks when it seemed necessary and my experience told me I could, but I could never come up with a situation in my mind when some or all of my safety equipment and safety precautions were completely ignored.

As to the second part, being ignorant (Ie not knowing things) isn't dangerous. It's being ignorant of your ignorance that leads to trouble. It hurts to lose friends or have them badly injured through their own negligence, but it doesn't change the fact that the best example some people set in their lives is how they end their own.


----------



## mike515

There should be no such thing as luck in this business. And there is no such thing as an accident. Luck is what you have when you misjudged or over-looked something and it still goes your way. An accident is what you have when it doesn't go your way. There is no place for either in this line of work and this should be the general thinking of any of us who are professionals.


----------



## KenJax Tree

Things can get serious real quick. Last month we had a new climber misjudge how deep he made his back cut while taking the top out on a big spruce. He made his notch and was making his back cut and cut through his hinge, so instead of the top going over and breaking the hinge it jumped back and into his lap, luckily it then fell sideways and to the ground. If it hadn't fallen sideways and instead fell back towards him it would've folded him in half backwards. All he got was a few cuts and bruises but could've easily died in an instant.


----------



## mike515

KenJax Tree said:


> Things can get serious real quick. Last month we had a new climber misjudge how deep he made his back cut while taking the top out on a big spruce. He made his notch and was making his back cut and cut through his hinge, so instead of the top going over and breaking the hinge it jumped back and into his lap, luckily it then fell sideways and to the ground. If it hadn't fallen sideways and instead fell back towards him it wouldn't folded him in half backwards. All he got was a few cuts and bruises but could've easily died in an instant.



See? Lucky. There is no place for lucky where we exist.


----------



## Wannabe123

Trouble with luck is when it runs out, it doesn't give much warning.


----------



## Overwatch

LOL... first time I've ever seen a vid of a guy face-planting the top of a stem in first person perspective.

I've seen a few of this guy's vids before this and some of them are interesting. He should have done more research on how to use the rigging gear , but common sense would dictate that five wraps is way too many.


----------



## Wannabe123

Overwatch said:


> LOL... first time I've ever seen a vid of a guy face-planting the top of a stem in first person perspective.
> 
> I've seen a few of this guy's vids before this and some of them are interesting. He should have done more research on how to use the rigging gear , but common sense would dictate that five wraps is way too many.



We had a saying back in my old outfit, a riff off of Admiral Nimitz "Common sense is an uncommon virtue"


----------



## acer-kid

How has bonner said NOTHING so far? Im baffled.


----------



## lone wolf

acer-kid said:


> How has bonner said NOTHING so far? Im baffled.


What does a Lawyer tell you to do when you are in trouble?


----------



## acer-kid

lone wolf said:


> What does a Lawyer tell you to do when you are in trouble?


BaHahahaha


----------



## Kiva

mike515 said:


> The guy seemed to know how to use the gear so he must have some experience but still....



I have fallowed this YouTube channel for weeks now, he is a wealth of knowledge and entertainment, and a volunteer firefighter/logger. That being said he didn’t use his chain guard when pushing over the sections and that’s just ****ing crazy.


----------



## Kiva

lone wolf said:


> 5 wraps would hold the whole tree !


Where can I learn to use a portawrap? I currently
Just wrap around the base of the tree or something with 2 or three clove hitches then climb down after each section to lower it since I work alone


----------



## Kiva

LegDeLimber said:


> Just for a moment here, Let's skip the power lines and other targets
> and assume his hinge was good, plus properly aimed.
> Alrighty then. Was the climber getting trunk-slapped just simply
> the ground crowd didn't feed the line when it time to do so?
> That's my gut thought at least.
> If not:
> Was the friction device rigged correctly, enough wraps on the tube, too many?
> I expect that may be very much influenced by the particular rope used and it's condition.
> Rope on the correct side of the tree?
> Now if the rope snagged or tangled, I'm sorry that I couldn't see it in the video.
> My eyes and flash video don't mesh so greatly.



They had 5 wraps on the porty which I guess is too many? Never used one myself.. would a dynamic rope instead of static rope
Cause less jolting of the climber? I currently work alone so that would benefit me


----------



## lone wolf

Kiva said:


> Where can I learn to use a portawrap? I currently
> Just wrap around the base of the tree or something with 2 or three clove hitches then climb down after each section to lower it since I work alone


----------



## Kiva

lone wolf said:


>



Great video thanks!

So what did he do wrong in This video? Besides being inexperienced and wrapping to many times it loooka like a good job to me..


----------



## lone wolf

Kiva said:


> Great video thanks!
> 
> So what did he do wrong in This video? Besides being inexperienced and wrapping to many times it loooka like a good job to me..


He did not mention it could be a problem letting the piece cut run to clear the climber and not shake the hell out of the tree! Too many wraps and the climber is in trouble!


----------



## rngrchad

The guys main job is YouTube. He does some cool videos. Likeable personality with interesting content but nearly everyThing he does kind of wreeks of “let’s see if I can get more views no matter the legitimacy of my actions”. If he was more “organic” in his videos I’d still be subscribed but I ditched his channel years ago. Just couldn’t take him serious anymore although I do wish him the best and want his YouTube celebrity status to carry on. He’s a professional celebrity. Making online movies that’s the truth of it.


And damn groundie could stop a d9 with 5 wraps!


----------



## lone wolf

rngrchad said:


> The guys main job is YouTube. He does some cool videos. Likeable personality with interesting content but nearly everyThing he does kind of wreeks of “let’s see if I can get more views no matter the legitimacy of my actions”. If he was more “organic” in his videos I’d still be subscribed but I ditched his channel years ago. Just couldn’t take him serious anymore although I do wish him the best and want his YouTube celebrity status to carry on. He’s a professional celebrity. Making online movies that’s the truth of it.
> 
> 
> And damn groundie could stop a d9 with 5 wraps!


That there D9 would break the rope


----------



## Kiva

lone wolf said:


> He did not mention it could be a problem letting the piece cut run to clear the climber and not shake the hell out of the tree! Too many wraps and the climber is in trouble!



So if they only wrapped it say twice.. there would be less friction the top would have fell further and not transferred as much force to the trunk? I’m looking a buying a porta wrap soon now.


----------



## lone wolf

Kiva said:


> So if they only wrapped it say twice.. there would be less friction the top would have fell further and not transferred as much force to the trunk? I’m looking a buying a porta wrap soon now.


Depends test it first sometimes 2 wraps can jam with a thicker rope.


----------

