# Anxiety overload. Quit or change things? HELP



## BestTreeService (Jul 27, 2012)

I'm considering selling out. I love tree work but not dealing with mischievous and insubordinate men....employees. I'm VERY ANGRY AND FRUSTRATED with the men that I constantly hire and fire on a regular basis for Drugs, Alcohol, attitude, and incompetency. Simply put "I can't find good help". I can't find good professional tree workers! I started, own/operate a fully equipped, licensed, insured, professional tree service in south western Indiana. I got my start doing ground work about 6 years ago part time. I grew my business from the common truck/trailer and a chainsaw with basic climbing skills. I grew in clientel from respectful quality service and fair prices. I didn't complain about the 14 hours days.......you guys know......work 10 and then into the garage/shop to fix your cheap broken #### in the evening. Wake up already beat and go at it again. I don't feel sorry for myself. It's life.
Now I'm fully equipped with 65 foot forestry package truck, 14 ton x 60 foot Crane truck, 2 ton dump truck, 1 ton chipper truck, new Bandit 1250xp chipper and of course several saws, rope, and other gear. That's not too much overhead about $2000 in trucks/equip per month......that's only 1 TREE right guys!!!!! I understand not many men can grow a tree service this fast but I am an odd guy that hasn't gotten married and had children or stupid enough to blow money on vices like drugs, alcohol, gambling, and strippers. I've grown abnormally fast from re investing all that I have into my business.
I'm too stressed and I'm not dealing well with my responsibilities......all of them. From meeting with new customers for estimates, returning phone calls, even telling the guys what to do. 
All the lies, drugs, DRAMA, stealing my saws and gear, EVERYTHING. You already know right. Good that's why I'm asking for HELP. I've tried everything to find the right Tree Men. The employment office, radio ads, calling other tree service owners, newspaper....you name it. What am I doing wrong......or is it just simply the immorality of people we are seeing in this new age? I'm lost!!!!! I can't do it anymore. I had my first Workers Compensation injury claim started last month with a very serious climbing injury that may affect my emloyees future. Yes I hate that for him.......but I also HATE MORE the fact of truth that if I don't find better skilled, devoted, trustworthy men it will happen more and someone gets hurt worse. I'm not the ####### boss that yells at everything but I'm also not a pushover and I stress what my boundaries and rules are which are not to be broken. THEY BREAK THE RULES. I CAN'T FIND ANYONE THAT WANTS TO WORK FOR A LIVING. I CAN'T FIND ANYONE THAT DOESN'T "want their old lady or mom to take care of them". I CAN'T FIND ANYONE THAT CAN HANDLE MORE THAN 35 HOURS OF PHYSICAL WORK PER WEEK. TRAIN EM THEY LEAVE. PAY EM MORE BECAUSE THEY ARE EXPERIENCED THEY QUIT WITHOUT FINDING A JOB FIRST. YOU NAME IT......THEY #### IT UP. $15 PER HOUR......#### I WISH I MADE THAT MUCH WHAT THE #### IS WRONG WITH YOU ####IN' BASTARDS. IS IT MY REGION WITH THE ATTITUDE AND IMMORALITY OR WHAT? MY LAST STRAW WAS MY LAST TALENTED CLIMBER WHO I FOUND USING HEROIN!!!! I pre employment drug screen, call for references of previous tree bosses, background checks, BMV driving records, ask about garnishment, all I know to do. It's a shame I love what I do but don't like being around the people I work with. If I can't get over this hump and figure this out with your help I'm done and selling out. One more respectable employer finished.


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## Gologit (Jul 27, 2012)

BestTreeService said:


> I'm considering selling out.
> I love tree work but not dealing with mischievous and insubordinate men....employees.
> 
> I'm VERY ANGRY AND FRUSTRATED with the men that I constantly hire and fire on a regular basis for Drugs, Alcohol, attitude, and incompetency. Simply put "I can't find good help". I can't find good professional tree workers!
> ...




Well, hey...other than all that...how are things going for ya?


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## jefflovstrom (Jul 27, 2012)

Watchya gonna do??!!
Jeff

Whatcha Gonna Do? Burton Crane - America's Got Talent Season 7 Audition - YouTube


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## jefflovstrom (Jul 27, 2012)

Do you think your problem's are so unique? If you can't handle it, quit, easy as that!
Jeff


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## Pete6 (Jul 28, 2012)

*Bigger is not always better.*

I'm saddened to read the above, including the replies.

Many people get over all the problems listed by going back to basics and getting smaller. There can be many advantages to this--getting a reputation for doing high quality work that you are directly involved with is one. From what the OP says it would seem that the relationships he could develop with his customers could be also be greatly enhanced.

It can actually be more profitable and much much easier to have less employees. If somebody really good to employ happens to come along you can take on jobs accordingly.

Managing others is a totally different ball game compared to what most people get into tree work for. Forget all the machinery--it is the people you are involved with in your life that can determine much of the your quality of life from my experience. Sure good equipment and tools are very nice to work with but it is not everything--especially if you feel like you need to be protecting it all the time.
Pete in Australia


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## paddie (Jul 28, 2012)

*I'm with Pete6 on this one*

You poor B###ard. I can feel your pain from here:bang:. I absolutely agree with Pete6. My brothers were in a brick laying biz and employed 10. Before this they worked (3 of 'em) for themselves and made a good living. They put on the extras to keep up with the all the work that was coming but in the end they were working to pay workers comp, replace stolen stuff, deal with 'all the issues' etc... ( not unlike the problems you are having) I learned a good lesson from them and my biz will remain small, (number of employees) and then only employing guys who have the same work ethic I have -High quality with a strong customer/service focus. I'm busy enough, profitable but most importantly happy - chasing tree work not chasing solutions to problems like you've got! :kilt:

I didn't say it as well as Pete6 but I think you get the drift mate. Scale back, take a deep breath and then regroup - and as Pete6 says _" If somebody really good to employ happens to come along you can take on jobs accordingly."_ 

Cheers with beers from Oz


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## originalhooker (Jul 29, 2012)

ask yourself,"what do I want to do?" ...the actual tree work. mange the guys/company. be a greaser/fixer. salesman/pr.
If you want to be the guy doing the work, then you need to find a professional to do the other things which keep the business rolling...that guy will not fit the normal tree dude profile, as pete6 said.
If you have control issues then stay small, U & 2 guys. or U one guy, & a guy from a temp place when needed. 
That is the only way you'll have peace & positive affect. 

Get back to the basics, as earlier stated,,,problem is if you try building something bigger than you can manage, then you get stuck feeding the "bigger."

think, what do I want to harvest? What do I have to sow to get it?

Been there before myself, 'bout 14 yrs ago, 2 crews 6-8 guys,,simply put, when the mental babysitting outweighs the physical work - STOP.....it is not fun(worth it anymore)
running 2 crews only meant we did alot more work & had alot more expense (mentally,physically,spiritually, financially).....AND MUCH MORE HEADACHES. 
In some areas, crews stay together, that's a wonderful thing....But, in this world we now live in "with a disposable mentality", you're fortunate if you can find dependable, committed, guys that will stick with ya, & want to grow something or be a part of something...
Staying small now, I can only do about 40% of the calls we get, I pick the jobs we want, don't feel like I have to do them all, do not get into bidding contest, stay booked 3-5 weeks out LOTS less stress, work quality remains a+


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## jsdogs1 (Jul 29, 2012)

Hire Mexicans :deadhorse:


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## treemandan (Aug 12, 2012)

jsdogs1 said:


> Hire Mexicans :deadhorse:



Best advice yet God damnit!


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## 54stude (Aug 12, 2012)

Hire workers that grew up on a farm.

They know how to work, fix equipment, and are honest more often than they are not.


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## Kottonwood (Aug 26, 2012)

are you paying your climbers 15 an hour and you expect them to treat you well? Are you having guys work 50-60 hours every week? 

My groundmen make 15 and up climbers 20 and up..... they seem pretty happy. We also work 4 10's. I will however schedule a fifth and sixth day to the week if the guys want some overtime.


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## TimberMcPherson (Sep 7, 2012)

PatriotTreeCO said:


> are you paying your climbers 15 an hour and you expect them to treat you well? Are you having guys work 50-60 hours every week?
> 
> My groundmen make 15 and up climbers 20 and up..... they seem pretty happy. We also work 4 10's. I will however schedule a fifth and sixth day to the week if the guys want some overtime.



Well said

The main problem isnt your staff, its you. 

You havent grown your business by not paying yourself, you have done it by not paying anyone what they are worth by the sound of it. 

All the greatest gear is near useless and just a breakable toy collection without good staff. But great staff are still able to be profitable with average gear.

Staff generally dont leave because they suck, the leave because YOU suck.


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## Seemlessstate (Nov 28, 2012)

$15 an hour does kind of suck. 

Its amazing what some people pay. even the large well respected nationwide companies have crap pay. 


I worked for a good ESOP company that believed climbing was a career that should afford you a way to actually support a family, but life took a turn and had to move. Now I work for a good company, but the pay sucks, and everyone knows it. the employees have much less respect for the company, when it feels like there's nothing in it for them but a ####ty paycheck and a 6 pack on friday. thats no way to treat people who risk their lives daily for your success. ya know?


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## Patrick62 (Dec 5, 2012)

*From another perspective*

I feel your pain. You can't get good help these days. For what it's worth if I was in Indiana, heck I'd work for ya :msp_biggrin:

Current observation from a thousand miles away, and starving on firewood in colorado. high unemployment means that I get contacts all the time from people who need a job. As far as finding someone that is "great" as a employee you literally have only 2% to choose from. I agree with you on the no drug policy. I have had to run people outta here for excessive booze. Now the reality is that if someone wants to crack a beer after work, so be it. With the trash that people are doing these days weed is pretty minor. I have worked with guys who smoked a little. Not a serious concern if it doesn't interfere with their work! I never have, and never will touch that (or any other) stuff!

I have learned to explain the four basics that get ya in trouble with me:
Don't steal from me.
Don't lie to me.
Don't manipulate me.
Don't bully me.

i've got one guy here that is honest as the day is long. Problem is he don't wanna get going and work. Ticks me off now and again. I have worked with a guy who figures things like you, and re-invest in more equipment, and grow the business as fast as possible to the irk of the guys working. Look at it from their position. The boss can't get me a raise but can buy another bucket truck.... Or out here it was the cheap bas#### can't afford to pay me, but can buy another truck or saw, or something. Causes irritation. When the crew is good and doing a decent job they are the MOST important thing in the business. Pay them. Play baseball. 3 strikes and you are out. Someone messed up, warn them sternly. They think it is a joke and do it again. Challenge your authority. Send them home to think about how they really like the job. 3rd offense? Final paycheck. You can screen and call references all you want, it comes down to judge of character.

Good luck.


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## brody (Dec 7, 2012)

*Feed the Beast*

Sounds like you have created something you can no longer control or even want to. bottom line is you cant know what people are thinking or know what there going to do. I would consider downsizing,stick with guys you can count on,take on less jobs,and get rid of the misfits.


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## ShermanC (Jan 7, 2013)

*What can you do to solve your personnel problems?*

Your problems, as you have described, may be brought on by rapid growth without controlled management. If you choose to keep your equipment inventory and keep trying to recruit employees to fill truck seats and help the arborist(s), join the Tree Care Industry Association to gain affiliation with experienced leaders who might be willing to advise you. Then to recruit, head north to Owensville, Fort Branch, Gibson South High School and talk to folks who know farm-type folks who believe in good work ethics. If you want to get things done, give them to busy people. Busy people know how to achieve and how to work. If none of this advice suits you sell out and start over.
My crew is two of us. Every work day starts with a safety meeting usually 20-30 minutes length, then a prayer for patience, respect and safe work. Then we make things happen safely.
Sincerely, Sherman


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