# How much rope fraying is too much?



## Carburetorless (May 9, 2012)

I've read that 20% is the retirement point for a climbing line; Is that about right?

Also I'm wondering; What does 20% wear on an arborist rope look like?

Maybe someone has pics of rope that is borderline for replacement.

Thanks


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## doogiegh (May 9, 2012)

*Uhmm*

I don't climb so I have no idea..

I can only say how much is new rope versus how much is your life worth?

So how can one judge how much of the rope is "worn", determine a percentage and then figure if it's good to go or not?


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## boutselis (May 9, 2012)

I would never climb on a rope that was frayed 1/5 of its thickness.

That is what I assume is meant that its 20% of the ropes thickness. I know a good rope cost money but I just wouldn't do it. Though I don't climb much at all so maybe I'm just to chicken to take the chance.


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## sgreanbeans (May 10, 2012)

All depends on the rope. Many different types out there, all wear differently. Pics? When u get to the point that you are questioning the safety of your lines, time to replace. When working aloft, you should NEVER have to ask the q of whether ur ropes will hold u or not.


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## beastmaster (May 10, 2012)

A lot depends on what kind of rope your using. Lots of newer climbing lines have a sheath that goes around the core. A little fraying of the sheath isn't going to weaken the rope much, and is normal on some climbing lines from abrasion. But tares and rips are a different story. A lot of fraying can hide or cover-up worse damage also.
If I am 100ft up in the air, and I look at my line and feel uncomfortable with it, its getting changed out that day. If you even have to think about it, change it out. Ropes cheap, and you can never have enough lowering/taglines/tipping lines/etc. so its not like the old rope is going to be wasted.


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## Carburetorless (May 10, 2012)

beastmaster said:


> A lot depends on what kind of rope your using. Lots of newer climbing lines have a sheath that goes around the core. A little fraying of the sheath isn't going to weaken the rope much, and is normal on some climbing lines from abrasion. But tares and rips are a different story. A lot of fraying can hide or cover-up worse damage also.
> If I am 100ft up in the air, and I look at my line and feel uncomfortable with it, its getting changed out that day. If you even have to think about it, change it out. Ropes cheap, and you can never have enough lowering/taglines/tipping lines/etc. so its not like the old rope is going to be wasted.



I'm climbing on Lava RB, it's Tachyon. Double braided construction, outer sheath is polyester, inner sheath is nylon, and the core is 3 strand twisted polypropylene I think(it's purple). 

Most of the rope looks new(it's only a month of so old), there are a few rougher looking places where I've natural crotched it in some walnuts. 

It's not that bad I guess, just looks odd because it's smaller rough spots on new rope.

Nothing to actually be concerned with, but it did get me to thinking about what a rope that needs replacing would actually look like.

20% of the ropes thickness I'm thinking would probably be just about all the way through the outer sheath, and it'd be damn fuzzy.


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## no tree to big (May 10, 2012)

I don't think you can accurately use a percentage of wear on a lot of rope especially if its got two different layers I've had a rope partially wear through the outer cover and just the thought that I could even see the core kinda put me off it was close enough to the end I could hack it off so I did. if the same thing happened in the middle of the rope I would probably replaced it. now if your climbing on a 12 strand solid braid well then maybe 20% would still be ok its still over 3/8" of rope if you started with 1/2. if you started with 3/8" rope and wore 20% that leaves you with a little less then 5/16" even though its only 1/16" less just the though of climbing on that little line is hard to imagine sometimes...


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## Carburetorless (May 10, 2012)

no tree to big said:


> I don't think you can accurately use a percentage of wear on a lot of rope especially if its got two different layers I've had a rope partially wear through the outer cover and just the thought that I could even see the core kinda put me off it was close enough to the end I could hack it off so I did. if the same thing happened in the middle of the rope I would probably replaced it. now if your climbing on a 12 strand solid braid well then maybe 20% would still be ok its still over 3/8" of rope if you started with 1/2. if you started with 3/8" rope and wore 20% that leaves you with a little less then 5/16" even though its only 1/16" less just the though of climbing on that little line is hard to imagine sometimes...



I sometimes freak myself out while I'm hanging in my harness 40' up and thinking about how the only thing holding me up there is one small line. 

I saw a demonstration one time that was part of a rope access course, where the instructor hung in his harness(about a foot off the ground) and cut his line with a knife, he cut completely around the sheath, then started on the center strands, he got all the way down to one tiny strand and it was still holding his weight. 

I think I'll get an extra few feet of this stuff and try that with it, just to satisfy my curiosity.


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## Zale (May 10, 2012)

Carburetorless said:


> I sometimes freak myself out while I'm hanging in my harness 40' up and thinking about how the only thing holding me up there is one small line.
> 
> I saw a demonstration one time that was part of a rope access course, where the instructor hung in his harness(about a foot off the ground) and cut his line with a knife, he cut completely around the sheath, then started on the center strands, he got all the way down to one tiny strand and it was still holding his weight.
> 
> I think I'll get an extra few feet of this stuff and try that with it, just to satisfy my curiosity.



You're just playing mind games with yourself. A well taken care of rope can last you several years.


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## arborist (May 10, 2012)

Carburetorless said:


> I sometimes freak myself out while I'm hanging in my harness 40' up and thinking about how the only thing holding me up there is one small line.



Your not confident enough in your equipment yet.Give it time,that will pass.It can take lots of climbing,but it will pass.
Wait until you get up to 75-100'.
You should consider doing a much better test than simply cutting into a hank of rope.Go ahead and buy yourself a 20' hank of rope of your choice,and hook onto a large log with your truck.Go ahead and push it until you brake it.Start with some short logs,and hook onto much larger and longer logs until you find out what it takes to snap.
It'll set ya back just a few bucks,and the confidence in the rope your hanging off of 40' up in the air will sky rocket after,I assure you.


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## beastmaster (May 11, 2012)

Carburetorless said:


> I'm climbing on Lava RB, it's Tachyon. Double braided construction, outer sheath is polyester, inner sheath is nylon, and the core is 3 strand twisted polypropylene I think(it's purple).
> 
> Most of the rope looks new(it's only a month of so old), there are a few rougher looking places where I've natural crotched it in some walnuts.
> 
> ...


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## Carburetorless (May 11, 2012)

beastmaster said:


> Carburetorless said:
> 
> 
> > I'm climbing on Lava RB, it's Tachyon. Double braided construction, outer sheath is polyester, inner sheath is nylon, and the core is 3 strand twisted polypropylene I think(it's purple).
> ...


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## Carburetorless (May 11, 2012)

arborist said:


> Your not confident enough in your equipment yet.Give it time,that will pass.It can take lots of climbing,but it will pass.
> Wait until you get up to 75-100'.



I've got a 110' - 120' Sycamore on a hill(45 degree slope) behind the house that I've been half way up. I want to go to the top, thought about advancing my 120' hank from there, but would rather get a 200' hank to save myself the trouble the first time to the top of it. 



> You should consider doing a much better test than simply cutting into a hank of rope.Go ahead and buy yourself a 20' hank of rope of your choice,and hook onto a large log with your truck.Go ahead and push it until you brake it.Start with some short logs,and hook onto much larger and longer logs until you find out what it takes to snap.
> It'll set ya back just a few bucks,and the confidence in the rope your hanging off of 40' up in the air will sky rocket after,I assure you.



We did that once with a logging chain on a huge white oak, thought it would snap the chain, but it ended up splitting the housing on the transfer case.

Maybe I'll just try lifting the truck with it.


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## VA-Sawyer (May 16, 2012)

How tall a tree is doesn't matter to me. When I get near the top of a tree, I never worry about my climbing line. The question on my mind is always the same....... Will that skinny bit of wood support my big backside?
Rick


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## Carburetorless (May 16, 2012)

VA-Sawyer said:


> How tall a tree is doesn't matter to me. When I get near the top of a tree, I never worry about my climbing line. The question on my mind is always the same....... Will that skinny bit of wood support my big backside?
> Rick



Yeah I know what you mean. I usually pick out a good solid crotch to set my rope in(at least 4") or multiple crotches, but sometimes I find myself wondering if that girdled co-dominant leader is strong enough to hold me. 

Evidently they are, cause I've put quite a bit of force on them with not so much as a snap, crackle or pop.


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## VA-Sawyer (May 17, 2012)

Four inches is no problem, but sometimes a proper prune requires that you climb higher.
Rick


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## Carburetorless (May 17, 2012)

VA-Sawyer said:


> Four inches is no problem, but sometimes a proper prune requires that you climb higher.
> Rick



I see what you're saying. I have used a crotch that was barely 2", not a problem as long as I have another one on the other side as a backup.

I have a walnut that needs the tips pruned out good, but they go for a long ways(10' to 15' from the last half way decent crotch) with nothing over an inch to climb on. I'm thinking of maybe climbing to the highest decent crotch and using a pole with a lopper on it. It'll be a PITA, but it'll do the job without breaking off half the limbs.


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## beastmaster (May 17, 2012)

Using a smaller sized branch for a tie in depends a lot on the kind of tree and how close to the crotch the rope is, and if your climbing SRT or DRT. 
Some times if I shoot a line over the top of a tree with the bigshot for my SRT, I am supported by twigs, and really small branches. Because the line is supported in so many places each little twig or branch is only supporting a fraction of my weight. Multiple tie in's also distribute your weight so you can use smaller branches to limb walk or what ever on DRT.


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## Carburetorless (May 17, 2012)

beastmaster said:


> Using a smaller sized branch for a tie in depends a lot on the kind of tree



I'm wondering if there is a good reference on tree strength by species.



> and how close to the crotch the rope is, and if your climbing SRT or DRT.



Ehhhhh, how close to the crotch the rope is; Wouldn't the rope be right in the crotch?



> Some times if I shoot a line over the top of a tree with the bigshot for my SRT, I am supported by twigs, and really small branches. Because the line is supported in so many places each little twig or branch is only supporting a fraction of my weight. Multiple tie in's also distribute your weight so you can use smaller branches to limb walk or what ever on DRT.



I like to hit two or three decent crotches, but I don't like having my rope over twigs, because twigs like to break off and make something else that needs to be pruned out.


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