# Using a high lift jack for jacking over trees



## 2treeornot2tree (Feb 14, 2012)

So today, I was thinking about this land clearing job I am helping my friend with. Got alot of trees that lean towards the road. I was thinking about trying to use a high lift jack (instead of a bottle jack) to jack over trees. What you guys think about it. I figured I could just cut a notch for the farm jack to fit in at the back cut and cut it to the hinge and jack it over. Most of the trees are only 14" and less. No more then 40' tall. Most of them have a slight back lean. Could almost wedge them over. I was trying to think of a way that would be faster to get these trees down other then sling shotting a rope into the tree and pulling them over with a comealong. What you think?


----------



## superjunior (Feb 14, 2012)

Damn 2tree your always up to somthin lol. If they're that small just put a rope up off an extension latter and run it through a block somewhere on the ground where ya want them, no?


----------



## mattfr12 (Feb 14, 2012)

2treeornot2tree said:


> So today, I was thinking about this land clearing job I am helping my friend with. Got alot of trees that lean towards the road. I was thinking about trying to use a high lift jack (instead of a bottle jack) to jack over trees. What you guys think about it. I figured I could just cut a notch for the farm jack to fit in at the back cut and cut it to the hinge and jack it over. Most of the trees are only 14" and less. No more then 40' tall. Most of them have a slight back lean. Could almost wedge them over. I was trying to think of a way that would be faster to get these trees down other then sling shotting a rope into the tree and pulling them over with a comealong. What you think?



We use the Stalpen tree jack a lot which works close to the same way other than it leaning on angle and digging in to the bark. And it works very very well. It will push over a pretty big tree with some back lean. I made a video of it just gotta get around to editing it. It beats throwing a rope up in it ten times over. Way way faster.


----------



## 2treeornot2tree (Feb 14, 2012)

superjunior said:


> Damn 2tree your always up to somthin lol. If they're that small just put a rope up off an extension latter and run it through a block somewhere on the ground where ya want them, no?



That may work. I got a power company fuse pulling pole. Extends to 27' or something, so I could use that to set ropes too. I was just thinking outta the box. There is some other trees that are away from the road, that I am gonna give it a try on tomorrow and see what happens. Got a forestry attachment coming Friday for a skidloader to mulch all the trees tops up and stumps. I thought it would save time by cutting as much as we can to the ground. Less time with the machine grinding and pushing over trees the quicker we can get it out of there and save $ on the rental.


----------



## climberjones (Feb 14, 2012)

Faster yes safer no! Might work fine if you put down a piece of 2x8 or something to keep it from sinking to bad.I am assuming your going to punch a bore cut bout 4inches into the tree bout 1ft above intended back cut ? Might want to ratchetstrap jack to trunk so when the tree moves forward the jack stays with through the fall so it doesnt slip out! Be safe good luck!opcorn:opcorn:


----------



## 2treeornot2tree (Feb 14, 2012)

The jack has a little of a j hook turned up on the end and it should sink into the wood. The jack also has a 4" x 8" plate on the bottom. I have used it to pick up my skid loader to change tires on it on dirt without a problem. Plus the jack is gonna be right above the root ball. I was thinking about placing the jack in the back cut. Your idea about the plung cut above is a good idea, at least worth a try. The only thing that concerns me / will need to be watched is that the tree starts to move and that your not just gonna lift your hinge up till the braking point. The jack should act very simular to a wedge. Gonna give it a go tomorrow and I will take some pics / videos and let you know how it works.


----------



## mattfr12 (Feb 14, 2012)

climberjones said:


> Faster yes safer no! Might work fine if you put down a piece of 2x8 or something to keep it from sinking to bad.I am assuming your going to punch a bore cut bout 4inches into the tree bout 1ft above intended back cut ? Might want to ratchetstrap jack to trunk so when the tree moves forward the jack stays with through the fall so it doesnt slip out! Be safe good luck!opcorn:opcorn:



as long as you use it within reason its safe i wouldn't go out and use a device not designed for tree work and start trying to take over 60 inch oak with a heavy back lean. but for what he's talking about your not messing with real big stuff. i welded a bill on a bottle jack so it goes in behind the bar and cut a hole sometimes for the jack to sit and pump them over. i found a duck bill porta power in my garage that works pretty good you have to beat a wedge in first to make it fit but as long as your not trying to do anything extreme with it, it works.


----------



## 2treeornot2tree (Feb 14, 2012)

I fully understand its not a tree jack by all means. Just thinking outta the box for the small stuff. After all, ideas like this are how this industry got all its cool tools.


----------



## Zale (Feb 14, 2012)

Check Aerial Mason's video collection. I believe he used the same method. Personally, I like having a rope in the tree if there is a back lean. Good luck.


----------



## mattfr12 (Feb 14, 2012)

Zale said:


> Check Aerial Mason's video collection. I believe he used the same method. Personally, I like having a rope in the tree if there is a back lean. Good luck.



he used a floor jack not even close to what he is talking about. its about impossible to cut a floor jack into a tree 14" in diameter, bottle jack, and high lift jack we are by far not the first people to try this. they actually still sell jacks for felling large trees. sometimes airbags are used.


----------



## 2treeornot2tree (Feb 14, 2012)

I am a little offended to be compared to aerial mason and his wacked ideas. Just saying.


----------



## Zale (Feb 14, 2012)

2treeornot2tree said:


> I am a little offended to be compared to aerial mason and his wacked ideas. Just saying.



Didn't mean to offend. If I am trying something I have not done before, I won't do it on a job site. If something goes wrong, the client won't be watching me. Setting a line doesn't take me that long and it gives added leverage.


----------



## 2treeornot2tree (Feb 14, 2012)

I normally wont do it on a jobsite either but this job is a exception. Nobody will be watching and nothing to hit with the test trees. The jobs in the edge of the woods. They are converting a old yellow freight yard into a auto auction. Its funny looking at the steel scrap guys equipment. They must spray bomb there loaders and track hoes. They barely look like they would run. BTW I am not really offended. I am a professional and he is just a hack.


----------



## superjunior (Feb 14, 2012)

Like you were sayin 2Tree, think outside the box.. Think "yarding" in a residential application..


----------



## treemandan (Feb 14, 2012)

I am always VERY leary with those jacks. As you jack the angle will change, to much angle and the bottom will pop out like a SOB.

I would put ropes in.


----------



## 2treeornot2tree (Feb 15, 2012)

mattfr12 said:


> We use the Stalpen tree jack a lot which works close to the same way other than it leaning on angle and digging in to the bark. And it works very very well. It will push over a pretty big tree with some back lean. I made a video of it just gotta get around to editing it. It beats throwing a rope up in it ten times over. Way way faster.



How do you like the jack? Would you buy it again?


----------



## formationrx (Feb 15, 2012)

*to op... quick time flopping...*

i think your logic is sound.... but to me i havent come across too many trees i could not fell with a couple of technical cuts and wedges.... it dont take no time to tie them off if you need too... you could even use a few pulley setups to give yourself a mechanical advantage.... you could use that same setup for a bunch of trees along the road-- that might be faster then cranking on a come along.... also in situations like you are describing i've felled the trees parallel with the road if i couldnt fell them away from the road...


----------



## 2treeornot2tree (Feb 15, 2012)

I have a fiddle block setup with a 150' of rope I use to pull over smaller trees. I never thought about felling them parallel to the road. Might give that a try. The time comsuming part is getting the throwbag into the exact crotch I want. Somedays I am just great at hitting it first or second shot, and other days I could get it to save my life. I think its I get frustrated after not getting it in a few trys. I use a big shot alot, and the other day it seem like it was just one thing after another. Throwline knots up on way up outta the cube or I bounce the dang thing off the limb I want. Then sometimes I cant get the weight to thread down around branches I want. I hope its a on day today.


----------



## sgreanbeans (Feb 15, 2012)

I have done this once. It did exactly what Danno said, popped out on me, when it did, it had a lot of pressure, I just turned my head and it flew out, the handle hit me in the back of the head, HARD, right below the helmet. It freakin hurt! I was probably doing something wrong, but it was enough for me to give up, shot a line and laid the SOB over. Be careful!


----------



## tree MDS (Feb 15, 2012)

I'll stick with my tractor winch.


----------



## mattfr12 (Feb 15, 2012)

2treeornot2tree said:


> How do you like the jack? Would you buy it again?



Yes it's very efficient for pushing over trunks after working the top out. It will crank over a pretty big tree with some back lean. Watch their YouTube video. Way faster and you also don't have to wind it up at the end , just carry it to the next tree.


----------



## Nailsbeats (Feb 15, 2012)

A pike pole maybe? Depends on what you can push, you'll have to make that call.


----------



## hunthawkdog (Feb 15, 2012)

*caution*

weve tried the jacks and usually it was pretty slick then one time as the tree fell it had hold of the jack and when it hit the ground it flung that jack and I ahvent used it since the one that flung it was an easy one and turned bad if it would and almost did hit someone it would have been terrible . I like to pull thos little trees with 4 wheeler you get lots of torque . If we raced and I threw the rope and pulled with the 4 wheeler and you used a jack Id bet dollars to dimes Id win . Be carful man those dang jacks are accidents waiting to happen.


----------



## pdqdl (Feb 15, 2012)

mattfr12 said:


> We use the Stalpen tree jack a lot which works close to the same way other than it leaning on angle and digging in to the bark. And it works very very well. It will push over a pretty big tree with some back lean. I made a video of it just gotta get around to editing it. It beats throwing a rope up in it ten times over. Way way faster.



I have never seen those before. I like the idea, but kicking out at the bottom would be a concern. Keep in mind guys, those ropes have to be extracted from the tree once you cut it down. That Stalpen jack would just pick up and move to the next tree.

Kicking out at the base would easily be overcome with a chain around the stump, anchoring the base of the jack. It does sound faster than setting ropes, although not as secure.


----------



## 2treeornot2tree (Feb 16, 2012)

Two of us dropped about 200 trees yesturday. Didn't take the jack outta the truck. Think I am just gonna put these trees over with a rope. The bank that these trees are on is very soft.


----------



## flushcut (Feb 16, 2012)

Rope'em that is my .02. I have used a bottle jack a few times and it worked well aside from one tree that broke its hinge and went 90* the wrong way.


----------



## pdqdl (Feb 16, 2012)

I would have no problem putting a jack on those. I doubt, however, that I would use a "farm jack". the Stalpen tree jack (or a similar device) would push at a very nice angle from the high bank, and those wires look like a pain to work around.

Ropes getting all tangled up in the woods behind is a pain too; I would look for quick and easy on that project.


----------



## timberjak (Feb 16, 2012)

I used a high lift for this before. the ground is frozen here not sure if yours is. I took the base off and made two tanto blade style metal teeth that dug into root ball or frozen gound. I also put the angled notch for jack to dig into up high. seemed to have more leverage.
This was a fast method for tipping trees.
I suppose in softer ground you could use some good bolts through the base holes. they would be like teeth out the bottom. could even sharpen them.


----------



## 2treeornot2tree (Feb 16, 2012)

I wish I knew someone with one of those jacks so I could try it out. Luckly the wires are just telephone wires, but are gonna make it a pain to get the rope in the trees


----------



## mattfr12 (Feb 16, 2012)

pdqdl said:


> I have never seen those before. I like the idea, but kicking out at the bottom would be a concern. Keep in mind guys, those ropes have to be extracted from the tree once you cut it down. That Stalpen jack would just pick up and move to the next tree.
> 
> Kicking out at the base would easily be overcome with a chain around the stump, anchoring the base of the jack. It does sound faster than setting ropes, although not as secure.



Your gotta see it in person. You'll become a believer. It was designed or modified for dropping trees. It has a u shaped bottom so it will grab on to like a one inch piece of rebar. I have a pry bar that sits in their perfectly that is close to five foot long. The bar on the bottom goes horizontal and digs into the ground as soon as your start to tighten up the system. Once it's an inch or two down its pretty solid.

You also gotta use common sense and chase the back cut with wedges which is super easy to do since the jack doesn't take up any room in the back cut.

I haven't had to set To many ropes since I bought it. And the ones I did for precautionary measures thee jack handled fine anyways.

Next time we use it I'll shoot a helmet cam video of how I set it up and use it.


----------



## mattfr12 (Feb 16, 2012)

It is not a necessary tool a rope is always pretty safe. With that in mind it is pretty freakin awesome when your dropping trees. It also will impress you to how much power it actually has. Mine has handled plenty of trees over 60 DBH. But normally i work the tops out to make it fit in the allotted space, then use the jack to push it over.

In the job I'm on now it has been the cats pajamas we took down close to 200 dead or diseased trees and it's on 10 acres, trees don't hold a super high risk of damaging property. I just gotta make sure I don't smash up other trees. So that's why I take the tops out.

Take a ride down and try it tree just give me a call before you do we usually work everyday and my days off consist of supervising the other crew.

I'm typing this from the cab of my log tuck while some pines are coming down. I love my iPad. It's raining pretty good guys still wanted to work so. My day off is today lol.


----------



## tree MDS (Feb 16, 2012)

Wow, that month sure flew by! lol.


----------



## mattfr12 (Feb 16, 2012)

tree MDS said:


> Wow, that month sure flew by! lol.



If your refereeing to me I've pretty much decided to quite posting stuff endless someone asks. Seeing how I'm the only tree company in the US that uses a Copma knuckle boom. And people like Holden seem to know more about it than me even though it's not possible he's ever been in driving distance of one. I kinda feel like I'm not gonna get anywhere trying to post stuff someone else might be able to use down the road for Information, so I give up. It's like me telling an astronaught what a space shuttle can and can't do. He commented on reach you could extend it out to 150 foot if you only wanted to lift a pack of hotdogs.

About us having the only two in the US feel free to look it up. Only two used in tree care.

To many know it all"s for me to continue.


----------



## 2treeornot2tree (Feb 16, 2012)

I hope you continue to post. You have alot of good input to add, and that makes this forum all the much better.


----------



## flushcut (Feb 17, 2012)

mattfr12 said:


> If your refereeing to me I've pretty much decided to quite posting stuff endless someone asks. Seeing how I'm the only tree company in the US that uses a Copma knuckle boom. And people like Holden seem to know more about it than me even though it's not possible he's ever been in driving distance of one. I kinda feel like I'm not gonna get anywhere trying to post stuff someone else might be able to use down the road for Information, so I give up. It's like me telling an astronaught what a space shuttle can and can't do. He commented on reach you could extend it out to 150 foot if you only wanted to lift a pack of hotdogs.
> 
> About us having the only two in the US feel free to look it up. Only two used in tree care.
> 
> To many know it all"s for me to continue.



Ok now you have me interested in this Copma kboom thing. Do you have a thread talking about it or some other links that you would care to share or a website. Thanks


----------



## mattfr12 (Feb 17, 2012)

Ya I'm at work at the moment but I made a thread a while back that has picture from the time I ordered it until now.


----------



## superjunior (Feb 17, 2012)

mattfr12 said:


> Ya I'm at work at the moment but I made a thread a while back that has picture from the time I ordered it until now.



you still referring to the first one, ya get the big boy yet?


----------



## mattfr12 (Feb 17, 2012)

superjunior said:


> you still referring to the first one, ya get the big boy yet?



no it takes almost a year from start to finish locate a truck. got the truck gonna go on a mack granite. then the boom takes about 3-5 months to get built and come across the pond. then they mount it and test it. its a slow process.


----------



## Kottonwood (Feb 17, 2012)

I didn't read this whole thread so forgive me if this has been answered. 

Why are you bothering to mess around with throw balls on those things? Why don't you just grab every rope you got worthy of pulling on, fly up there in your bucket and set em all..... 25 minutes max and you have an easy safe way of yanking those things over..... you'd spend more time than that screwing around cutting notches to fit your jack in.


----------



## Kottonwood (Feb 17, 2012)

oh yeah.... if you don't have enough ropes tie your long ones twice, then attach your fiddle block on the ground.... voila


----------



## Slvrmple72 (Feb 17, 2012)

Had a codom silver, we put a rope around both stems and used the felling of the one half to pull the other half against the lean away from the house. what a dumb idea that was.... made a real cluster---- pile of branches.


----------



## arborjockey (Feb 21, 2012)

Dont the stick style of jacks put a lot of pressure on the hinge? :msp_confused: To me if the lean is significant you need a rope to PULL the top 75% of the tree. If its just moderate a little lower. But pushing on the bottom seems like your side loading hinge wood and that leads to blow outs and trees going backwards. I watched a hilbillys push on tree with a backhoe while another guy cut under him. Look bad and it was, the tree blew out. Could of been the operator? I still think setting a rope is kinda quick. The 1st time i saw that thing in Sherrill I pictured lots of misuse. Im no knocking on it i dont understand it.


----------



## pdqdl (Feb 21, 2012)

arborjockey said:


> Dont the stick style of jacks put a lot of pressure on the hinge? ...



Well, yes, but FAR less force than a wedge. Force on hinge is greater, the closer to the hinge you get with your point of leverage.

You are putting side force to tip the tree about 5 feet up the side of the tree, probably 4' away from the hinge. This is much further away from the hinge than the wedges you may already be quite comfortable using; and they are often less than 15" away from the hinge.

A wedge works a HUGE mechanical disadvantage, and pile a lot of force onto the hinge. Not quite so bad with the long jack, and practically 1:1 with a rope tied high in the tree. Obviously, the rope gives the most mechanical leverage, but often is not necessary or practical.

Hence, this thread.


----------



## pdqdl (Feb 21, 2012)

arborjockey said:


> ... I watched a hilbillys push on tree with a backhoe while another guy cut under him. Look bad and it was, the tree blew out. Could of been the operator? ...



You got it right, it was some hillbillies that didn't do it right. Pushing trees over with a big machine can be quite safe, but not if you do it wrong.

I damn near put a big cottonwood on top of my bobcat once, mostly due to my lack of experience with that machine (and pushing over trees with it). Done properly, they can deliver many tons of sideways force to tip a tree. In general, I think pushing trees over with bobcats is not a good idea, since their bucket height is taller than their wheelbase is long. A backhoe would be a formidable tree pusher.


----------



## 2treeornot2tree (Feb 21, 2012)

I have used a big track hoe to push trees over as I cut, but I don't think I would use a backhoe, not enoguh weight and it can't get as high up in the tree to push.


----------



## pdqdl (Feb 21, 2012)

A big track hoe doesn't even need a chainsaw to take out big trees. They just rip them out of the ground and tell them to go away.

The biggest cottonwoods in our area are nothing more than sturdy weeds to a big track hoe. I watched one taking out 3'-5' dbh cottonwoods at the top of 40' slope once. It only took about 10 minutes per tree, and that included the time it took to dig a path up the 2:1 slope from the bottom of Brush Creek. That excavator then tossed the tree down to the bottom of the creek, and another large excavator broke it into little pieces and loaded it into end-dump semi trucks. 

There wasn't a chainsaw on the job, and they got rid of about 1/2 mile of fully mature cottonwood trees.


----------



## 2treeornot2tree (Feb 21, 2012)

Yeah I have seen them push over trees, but most times they have to dig up the roots on one side. When I used them, the root balls stayed, so we didn't want to tear everything up so much so we used the saw with the track hoe.


----------



## Rickytree (Feb 21, 2012)

Old boss pushed over monster's with his 570 case loader. Got a video of him pulling one over which he wasn't a big fan of. I asked him which was better and he replied that pushing was better because you have more control. Used one of the forks to push as high as they could reach. Man you'd see the huge tree just shake. Biggest thing is not cutting through the hinge especially when there was side weight. So much faster, can't wait till i gots my 570XLT with cd and one 12 under the seat.


----------



## treemandan (Feb 21, 2012)

PatriotTreeCO said:


> I didn't read this whole thread so forgive me if this has been answered.
> 
> Why are you bothering to mess around with throw balls on those things? Why don't you just grab every rope you got worthy of pulling on, fly up there in your bucket and set em all..... 25 minutes max and you have an easy safe way of yanking those things over..... you'd spend more time than that screwing around cutting notches to fit your jack in.



Most likely he would BUT I doubt the head of the operation ain't interested in paying him to bring his bucket ( you know how that goes) BUT I am glad you brought it up.


----------



## treemandan (Feb 21, 2012)

PatriotTreeCO said:


> oh yeah.... if you don't have enough ropes tie your long ones twice, then attach your fiddle block on the ground.... voila



And yet another spastastic idea.

That whole job looks like fun fun fun but I think the dunderhead in charge is mucking it up.

P.S. spastastic is good


----------



## 2treeornot2tree (Feb 21, 2012)

Was setup to go out friday to drop the trees from the bucket, and chip the branches with flaggers sub contracted (flagger force). Then I get a call today, he and his dad used a backhoe to push over the trees while his dads wife flagged traffic. Said it went pretty good. I thought to myself it probably would have went better if you knew how to run a saw. So now they dont need me friday, I am now out $1000, and then he asks me if I am mad. What you think? Idiot At least I got paid for what I did so far the other day. That was quite funny, he somehow forgot I told him $50 a hour, and was thinking I was charging him $35 a hour, and not charging him for drive time. That didnt work out to well for him, I got $50 a hour plus drive time.


----------



## pdqdl (Feb 21, 2012)

This seems like a good time to post a pic about pushing things over. Naturally, the rules for sending a tree over with a jack are not any different from using a loader bucket. Obviously, the higher you are pushing against the tree, the more leverage your machine will have to send the tree in the desired direction.

The big risk in pushing a tree over is two-fold: 
1.You must be certain that you have enough power available to send the tree over. (true for all tree felling)
2. You need to secure the trunk of the tree by some means to prevent jumping off the stump and falling onto the machine. The risk of this occurring is greatest if the tree will still be hanging over the machine when the hinge is likely to break.







Make the notch first, _then put in the back-cut considerably lower than the notch_. This creates two sections of wood that are firmly pressed against each other by "gravity opposing the machine". When the machine pushes the tree over center, the force is removed and the tree goes the direction you wanted. 

This method corrects for some of the risks incurred while pushing a tree over with a tree. I strongly suggest chaining trunk and stump for trees that are particularly prone to barber-chair.
View attachment 225377


You comments or questions are welcome. No one taught me this, and I have not seen it elsewhere. I am sure that some folks will think it a crazy method to cut down a tree, but it worked every time I used it. Obviously, this is a higher risk maneuver than just putting in a rope and pulling hard. _Sometimes that isn't an option._


----------



## treemandan (Feb 21, 2012)

2treeornot2tree said:


> Was setup to go out friday to drop the trees from the bucket, and chip the branches with flaggers sub contracted (flagger force). Then I get a call today, he and his dad used a backhoe to push over the trees while his dads wife flagged traffic. Said it went pretty good. I thought to myself it probably would have went better if you knew how to run a saw. So now they dont need me friday, I am now out $1000, and then he asks me if I am mad. What you think? Idiot At least I got paid for what I did so far the other day. That was quite funny, he somehow forgot I told him $50 a hour, and was thinking I was charging him $35 a hour, and not charging him for drive time. That didnt work out to well for him, I got $50 a hour plus drive time.



Yeah, it sounds like you would have been better off dead than to put in with that guy anyway. " it went pretty good" means " holy crap what a pain in the ass it was". " dad's wife flagging" means " poor lady almost caused 6 accidents, 7 if you count her". 

Its always a laugh.


----------



## 2treeornot2tree (Feb 21, 2012)

He said it sounds like the guy wants him to finish the last 5 acres of the property. I know he gave them a price of $65,000. So when he asks me for help again, I am gonna tell him its gonna be a flat $30,000. If he dont like it he can go get his daddy and his backhoe.


----------



## 2treeornot2tree (Feb 21, 2012)

pdqdl said:


> This seems like a good time to post a pic about pushing things over. Naturally, the rules for sending a tree over with a jack are not any different from using a loader bucket. Obviously, the higher you are pushing against the tree, the more leverage your machine will have to send the tree in the desired direction.
> 
> The big risk in pushing a tree over is two-fold:
> 1.You must be certain that you have enough power available to send the tree over. (true for all tree felling)
> ...



I dont think you would want to back cut under your wedge, If the hinge brakes it could jump off and the loaders gonna eat it. I would cut it just like I would any other tree, maybe leave a little bit more hinge.


----------



## treemandan (Feb 21, 2012)

2treeornot2tree said:


> He said it sounds like the guy wants him to finish the last 5 acres of the property. I know he gave them a price of $65,000. So when he asks me for help again, I am gonna tell him its gonna be a flat $30,000. If he dont like it he can go get his daddy and his backhoe.



When they say " 65K" they are lying. And if 65 ain't a lie then the price should be 85. Come on, this guy does not sound like he knows his ass from a hole in the ground. Sounds like the guy is in over his head and trying to squeeze dimes out of nickles.

Whatever, I know i have had enough of people wanting my expertise while they circle jerk.


----------



## 2treeornot2tree (Feb 21, 2012)

Yeah I dont know, he said the other prices were $120,000 but hes been known to bs. Oh well, is what it is. I priced a job the other day with 9 pretty big birch trees amongst a bunch of other trees. Was gonna give you a call if I get it and see if you wanted to climb for me for a day.


----------



## treemandan (Feb 21, 2012)

2treeornot2tree said:


> Yeah I dont know, he said the other prices were $120,000 but hes been known to bs. Oh well, is what it is. I priced a job the other day with 9 pretty big birch trees amongst a bunch of other trees. Was gonna give you a call if I get it and see if you wanted to climb for me for a day.



:msp_thumbup:


----------



## pdqdl (Feb 21, 2012)

2treeornot2tree said:


> I dont think you would want to back cut under your wedge, If the hinge brakes it could jump off and the loaders gonna eat it. I would cut it just like I would any other tree, maybe leave a little bit more hinge.



Well...how deep the back cut is placed is determined by the chainsaw operator, not my hasty drawing. Not necessarily drawn to scale, each cut would be determined by the situation. Clearly, you would want to leave enough hinge wood to hold, yet cut deep enough to allow the machine to push the tree over.

You got the risk right: placing the cut low prevents the hinge from breaking until the tree bends over in the correct direction.


----------



## mattfr12 (Feb 21, 2012)

treemandan said:


> :msp_thumbup:





What is he doing for 65k that's around one of our biggest bids? Just curious to what the job entailed. Ours required two cranes and picking out over 100-150 small to medium trees over trailers then a single phase line.


----------



## 2treeornot2tree (Feb 21, 2012)

He is clear cutting about 6 acres and grinding everything up with a forestry mower.


----------



## mattfr12 (Feb 22, 2012)

2treeornot2tree said:


> He is clear cutting about 6 acres and grinding everything up with a forestry mower.



Holy fack that's a lot if money for 6 acres. If its relatively flat I would fall in at 35k and usually get beat on land clearing. That's pretty thick wooded. Dozed ad hydro seed.

That's really good money for six acres last one I bid was five. It went for under 18k dozed and seeded.


----------



## arborjockey (Feb 22, 2012)

*What?*



pdqdl said:


> Well, yes, but FAR less force than a wedge. Force on hinge is greater, the closer to the hinge you get with your point of leverage.
> 
> You are putting side force to tip the tree about 5 feet up the side of the tree, probably 4' away from the hinge. This is much further away from the hinge than the wedges you may already be quite comfortable using; and they are often less than 15" away from the hinge.
> 
> ...



The way I understood a wedge, the pressure exerted on the hinge is inline with the fibers of wood. Lifting the rear of the tree. Not a side load as mentioned above with the equipment. Pushing on the bottom 10' of a tree is what I don't understand. When he has a telecom line and a road behind that using that thing seems risky. If I can't wedge it, I have a 27' pole or a throw bag to set ropes. Im 100% pulling trees over with a rope and backing the up with a wedge. :biggrin:Im open minded though.


----------



## mattfr12 (Feb 22, 2012)

arborjockey said:


> The way I understood a wedge, the pressure exerted on the hinge is inline with the fibers of wood. Lifting the rear of the tree. Not a side load as mentioned above with the equipment. Pushing on the bottom 10' of a tree is what I don't understand. When he has a telecom line and a road behind that using that thing seems risky. If I can't wedge it, I have a 27' pole or a throw bag to set ropes. Im 100% pulling trees over with a rope and backing the up with a wedge. :biggrin:Im open minded though.



If you see the Stalpen in action it will make you a believer it has a tremendous amount of power for what it is. Watch their YouTube video it will do more than their showing. It's just super fast, if someone has trees falling in the wrong direction Forget about the rope they need to learn how to cut. I back it up with wedges on big stuff it's not like it's gonna come back, left and right shouldn't even be an option, are people cutting through their hinge? Or not raising their back cut when needed. 

It shouldn't even be possible if cut right, if your tree can break in the wrong direction you need to leave more hinge.


----------



## arborjockey (Feb 22, 2012)

Watch the vid. And I do hope its more impressive then what's depicted. Its a neat tool just don't think it will make my arsenal for now. I rarely get a place to fall a whole tree anymore. And if I do it has to count and im not going to bet a million dollar house that that things not going to slip. The video never shows the tops of the trees. The 1st tree only fell about 40 degrees? It looked like those guys were struggling to crank on that thing. What happens when the back lean is to heavy and you lock up? The picture of the tree line (on this forum) dwarfed the ones in the videos. Some of the trees had big branchs over the road. No way would I use that device I watched in the trees from that pic.:msp_sleep:


----------



## pdqdl (Feb 22, 2012)

arborjockey said:


> The way I understood a wedge, the pressure exerted on the hinge is inline with the fibers of wood. Lifting the rear of the tree. Not a side load as mentioned above with the equipment. Pushing on the bottom 10' of a tree is what I don't understand. When he has a telecom line and a road behind that using that thing seems risky. If I can't wedge it, I have a 27' pole or a throw bag to set ropes. Im 100% pulling trees over with a rope and backing the up with a wedge. :biggrin:Im open minded though.



It's all dependent on what you are familiar with. 

A rope and sturdy pulling mechanism is pretty secure for sending a head leaner over, but not if the top breaks out where you are tied on. Equally sure is pushing over with a big machine. Either method goes well until something goes wrong, then...just blame the operator.

In my formative years of chainsaw use, I was completely ignorant of "the right way" to get a tree to go where I wanted it to go. PPE was completely unheard of, as were ropes, climbing equipment, or any of the tools of our trade except the chainsaw itself. A tractor with front end loader does a pretty good job of covering for those deficits, and that is all I had 25 years ago.

It seems to me that prior to really knowing what I was doing, I would drive up to a tree, start pushing and cutting on the same side, and when it went over, it was time to cut it up. No hinge, no face cut, just hack it down and send it over. That really isn't too bad a way of doing now, either. There is little risk of barber chair when you cut them down that way. The hinge, however, is not as strong.


----------



## arborjockey (Feb 22, 2012)

My boss in Oregon would lay out everyone of those trees in the pic no problem. He's been falling old growth since he was a teenager. Knowing that ol crow he'd walk down the line cutting notches on every tree, sit down to a cup of coffee then fart causing the whole line to domino at one time. We have 7 skidsteers. The 1\2 million dollar cat skid could cable everyone of those pecker poles in the pic. at one time and pull them over like they were windthrown. Ive seen a geraff style cutting head (4' circular saw) on a 400 excavder do damage back east. Two of them working side by side one cut the other had a clam bucket and loaded. pretty fast stuff but a little over kill for most jobs. Load up tear and delevery takes a long time. Maybe I will get one of those pecker pole pushers.:taped:and my ropes don't slip I'm usually through a high crotch and the end is tied a couple of feet above my notch. The rope actually pulls on the back of the trunk of the tree.


----------

