# Directioinal falling ?s for the pro's



## Brian13 (Nov 29, 2010)

I have a question about putting a tree to the ground where you want it, with heavy side lean. I have done a fair bit of reading with techniques mentioned in brief detail, but not enough for me to understand the process. Most of what I get to cut are undesirable trees that are growing anyway but straight, and thus far they usually end up going with the lean. I know it takes more than reading, I am just looking for a good basis to start with. What kind of techniques or combo of techniques are used to get a tree to fall or swing 90* to its lean?

And for a block face cut.... I know it the hinge wood holds longer, but when would it be practical for use.

Thanks guys, trying to learn and not be annoying at the same time.


----------



## hammerlogging (Nov 29, 2010)

Bringing leaning junk around is difficult because generally you have more height without much diameter to work with. Get your hinge locatedon the best wood on the stump, preferably lined up with a root flare. Try to get to as close to 100% of the diameter on your hinge. Backcut, plan on a pie shaped hinge with the thicker part on the not-under-the-lean side. Get your face as open as possible because as soon as the face closes the hinge will break.

Even so, leaning junk is leaning junk and you'd better be careful pushing your bets. Once you get into larger diameter you can do a whole lot more, throw in dutchman and siswheels and you can get even more, but you have to be more careful to, if you're dealing with sawtimber, you can't bust butt wood.


----------



## stihl 440 (Nov 29, 2010)

*ill bite a little...*



Brian13 said:


> I have a question about putting a tree to the ground where you want it, with heavy side lean. I have done a fair bit of reading with techniques mentioned in brief detail, but not enough for me to understand the process. Most of what I get to cut are undesirable trees that are growing anyway but straight, and thus far they usually end up going with the lean. I know it takes more than reading, I am just looking for a good basis to start with. What kind of techniques or combo of techniques are used to get a tree to fall or swing 90* to its lean?
> 
> And for a block face cut.... I know it the hinge wood holds longer, but when would it be practical for use.
> 
> Thanks guys, trying to learn and not be annoying at the same time.



I have alotta ways i do it....its hard enough to explain person to person...let alone to do it on the computer. That and some people on here wouldn't like the way i would say to do it....(to swing a tree)...oh well. If you're falling a tree with side lean throw a face in it 1/4-1/5 of the dia....and no matter what you do make sure if you're borecutting it start on the hanging side...and make sure the hinge on the side it is leaning away from is thicker than the side that its leaning to...that's just the crude basic's though...you can integrate waaaay more factors to make it do exactly what you want it to do...but again some people...so i just wont reveal my ways...


----------



## Brian13 (Nov 30, 2010)

I have heard about the dutchman, but the siswheel is a new one on me. I have tried a tapered hinge with limited success. I understand how the dutchman works, but do not understand the application of it. I dont know if there is a formula for the tree size to the amount of hinge wood cut, or if it is feel and experience, so I have not tried it. I do know it can cause problems if not done right or wrong application. Thank you for the answers, got a lot to learn and to few trees to learn with.


----------



## stihl 440 (Nov 30, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> I have heard about the dutchman, but the siswheel is a new one on me. I have tried a tapered hinge with limited success. I understand how the dutchman works, but do not understand the application of it. I dont know if there is a formula for the tree size to the amount of hinge wood cut, or if it is feel and experience, so I have not tried it. I do know it can cause problems if not done right or wrong application. Thank you for the answers, got a lot to learn and to few trees to learn with.



You're probably leaving your hinge on the leaning side too thin or too think...vise versa...same effect at times depending on the applicated tree its done to...same goes for the opposite side..


----------



## joesawer (Nov 30, 2010)

A leaning tree has compression fibers on one side and tension fibers on the other. 
There are a lot of different ways to cut to the side of the lean and the one thing that they all have in common is leaving enough wood holding on the tension side.
And 1/4 to 1/5 diameter on the gunning cut is not going to be very successful.
Get these books.
http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=17370&catID=1064
http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=17309&catID=1069


----------



## bitzer (Dec 1, 2010)

If you really want to move the ugly crap you may have to do some scary ####. 1/4 to 1/5 face aint gonna do it. If your talking hardwoods, crown weight has a lot to do with it. Flat land or hills? Some trees move better than others, hold on better than others, break sooner, etc. Start reading, practicing and maybe running. Understanding compression wood versus tension wood and how and when to use them and cut them. You also need space to work when on the swing. Trial and error. Read through the falling pics thread. Do searches on here looking for dutchman, siswheel (siswel, sizwheel and any other combo). Watch hotsaws101's vids on youtube. Hes got some fun stuff to see. By the way I don't condone any of this.


----------



## 056 kid (Dec 1, 2010)

Bringing leaning trees around takes alot alot alot alot of practice.


----------



## coastalfaller (Dec 1, 2010)

Don't know if there's any body falling in your neck of the woods, but if you can find a good faller and offer to pack his gas/oil jugs, that goes along way to showing you're serious about wanting to learn. It gives you an opportunity to watch the practices described here and in other threads, and ask questions about their application at the same time. That kind of learning is priceless and far easier to understand than from any book. Not to mention with out the danger of experimenting on your own. While you can learn alot that way too, trees can be very unforgiving and sometimes don't give you a second chance.


----------



## Billy_Bob (Dec 2, 2010)

If it is *real* important that the tree fall a different direction from its lean like so it will avoid hitting a house, power lines, etc., then what the "tree service guys" do is use a bucket truck or climb the tree. Then cut limbs off on the opposite side to rebalance the tree. Then also use very long pull ropes going the direction they want it to fall. Maybe even connect one of these to a winch on a truck.

Or they will take the tree down a little at a time and also use ropes to assure that each section falls away from where it would hit something.

They make *darn* sure it will not hit that house or whatever.


----------



## whitebutler (Dec 2, 2010)

Well i tend to beet the hell outa my wedges and make sure that im angry when i get to the heavy leaners and use a big ax but thats in the woods and not really good for the sole if it goes south for ya:check:


----------



## Brian13 (Dec 2, 2010)

I wish there were some fallers close by. The only logging in my area is pine farms probably done with machines, and that is about three or four hours away from me. Most everything around here is tree service, and I have found a member here near by nice enough to help me with learning to climb. The reason I am asking about leaners though is I have a large Live Oak at my parents house that has been struck by lightning several times. At the base it is about a five by six foot oval and at waist height it splits into two stems. One side looks like half of the McDonald's arch. Its lean is towards a road, but if it fell on the road its a small private road with very little traffic and would not be a huge deal. It is about 30" in dia. and what bothers me is the side away from the lean has limited access. I would like to drop it parallel with the road, 90* from the lean. I think there is enough lean that a barber chair is possible but I dont honestly know how having the hinge wood running almost 90* to the lean will effect the chances of a barber chair. The only good part is that half of the tree hasnt been hit by lightning and should not be rotten. The other half has a lot of dead wood up top but does not have as much lean. I dont have any pics at the moment, but will try to get some the next time I am at my parents house. Thanks for the advice so far.


----------



## hammerlogging (Dec 2, 2010)

Yeah i hat to say it bud but I think you are just fitting in to the 'knows enough to be dangerous" category. Listen to coastalfaller. MANY nuances to falling timber.


----------



## Billy_Bob (Dec 3, 2010)

That tree to me falls into the category that my life is worth the expense of renting a bucket truck / man lift and being able to safely take down the tree from the top-down. And be safely away from and above falling branches, etc.

Dead branches can fall and hit you. They are called "widow makers"! They are *very* heavy.

Then with the rotten trunk, one book I have says if in doubt, LEAVE IT! (Meaning if you are not totally sure what the tree is going to do, then let someone else do it.) And no telling what that rotten trunk would do?

I would feel a whole lot safer taking that down in sections.


----------



## Brian13 (Dec 3, 2010)

I do apologize, this is not going in the direction of my original intention. If it came off as me trying to get a step by step instruction as to how to fall this tree, I am sorry. I understand the reluctance to offer explicit advice, as my description and even pictures will never tell the full story without being present to see it in person. As well as how I interpret the instruction could cause problems as well. What I was looking for was an in depth discussion on the various techniques used. How and why they work, when they should be applied, what are the dangers or possible negative outcomes associated with each technique. Nothing specific to any tree or any particular situation. If anyone can explain the physics involved, personal experience, and what has worked and not worked. I know it takes more than studying theory to be good/safe at falling a tree. I takes a lot of experience and practice as well. However I was told when I used to play golf a lot, "poor practice technique= poor results, perfect practice= improvement". And to some extent I think that applies here too. Sorry if I got off on the wrong foot, just trying to start an educational discussion, not and instructional one.


----------



## teatersroad (Dec 3, 2010)

Don't listen to me,, it's not a challenge I typically face. Lead is not required when you are clearing. However, if I need to keep off of the two-track (which trees typically lean into) I find I can fall perpendicular to it's natural lead pretty easily by minding my hinge and following with wedges. A healthy face cut and more holding wood in the direction I want to pull. It's what I do, but I'm humbled by the expertise of the real fallers here, and defer all advice to their take. Nothing extreme here, in size or lean, drop and go or leave it for the cat, etc..


----------



## rmh3481 (Dec 3, 2010)

Brian,
Here are some diagrams that may help you sort this along with a short video of a bore cut.

I wouldnt suggest that you work that Oak by yourself. Maybe hire a local climber to get the wood onto the ground and then you go from there.

http://www.mytreelessons.com/Dutch Push in 1 side of Face.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVH3ShnhMRA&NR=1


----------



## stihl 440 (Dec 3, 2010)

bitzercreek1 said:


> If you really want to move the ugly crap you may have to do some scary ####. 1/4 to 1/5 face aint gonna do it. If your talking hardwoods, crown weight has a lot to do with it. Flat land or hills? Some trees move better than others, hold on better than others, break sooner, etc. Start reading, practicing and maybe running. Understanding compression wood versus tension wood and how and when to use them and cut them. You also need space to work when on the swing. Trial and error. Read through the falling pics thread. Do searches on here looking for dutchman, siswheel (siswel, sizwheel and any other combo). Watch hotsaws101's vids on youtube. Hes got some fun stuff to see. By the way I don't condone any of this.



thers always a critic i guess.....you do what ya want...if you dont listen to me then thats your problem...not mine....just tryin to give the guy advice but other persons seem to want to hamper it....you do what ya need to i guess....oh yea cut a face in it 3/4 of the way deep and just nip the back she'll go any way ya want...real quick....hahahahahahah lmao


----------



## Gypo Logger (Dec 4, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> I do apologize, this is not going in the direction of my original intention. If it came off as me trying to get a step by step instruction as to how to fall this tree, I am sorry. I understand the reluctance to offer explicit advice, as my description and even pictures will never tell the full story without being present to see it in person. As well as how I interpret the instruction could cause problems as well. What I was looking for was an in depth discussion on the various techniques used. How and why they work, when they should be applied, what are the dangers or possible negative outcomes associated with each technique. Nothing specific to any tree or any particular situation. If anyone can explain the physics involved, personal experience, and what has worked and not worked. I know it takes more than studying theory to be good/safe at falling a tree. I takes a lot of experience and practice as well. However I was told when I used to play golf a lot, "poor practice technique= poor results, perfect practice= improvement". And to some extent I think that applies here too. Sorry if I got off on the wrong foot, just trying to start an educational discussion, not and instructional one.



Brian, sorry if I missed out on it, but why is it so important to commit a tree 90 degrees from it's lean. This isn't something easily accomplished with every tree. Wedging helps as do sloping undercuts, not something that is recognized as safe but very effective on smaller trees.
Also, hardwoods act different then softwoods even though the basic mechanics is generally the same.
John


----------



## hammerlogging (Dec 4, 2010)

stihl 440 said:


> thers always a critic i guess.....you do what ya want...if you dont listen to me then thats your problem...not mine....just tryin to give the guy advice but other persons seem to want to hamper it....you do what ya need to i guess....oh yea cut a face in it 3/4 of the way deep and just nip the back she'll go any way ya want...real quick....hahahahahahah lmao



Bro, It seems as though you consider GOL stuff as either superior technique, or the secret component to some perceived capability. On the contrary, the GOL skill set is just one piece of the pie, one tool in the bag. Just one. A good start, but not a complete fallers package.


----------



## stihl 440 (Dec 4, 2010)

hammerlogging said:


> Bro, It seems as though you consider GOL stuff as either superior technique, or the secret component to some perceived capability. On the contrary, the GOL skill set is just one piece of the pie, one tool in the bag. Just one. A good start, but not a complete fallers package.



Dude....i fall timber for a living....been for 10yrs....i didnt say GOL is the only way but it DOES work for alot of situations......as much of the twisted up dangerous steep ground that i work on i probably GOL 1-4 trees a day...depending on the circumstances...i use another technique that one of the best veteran fallers that i know taught me and im not about to give it up over the net....you work with me for a day you MIGHT catch me doing it...you might not...


----------



## Labman (Dec 4, 2010)

It you have power lines, houses, etc., consider a lift. A few years ago my daughter bought a house. It had 2 huge silver maples out front, power lines on 3 sides and the house on the fourth. I told them those trees had to go, the sooner the better and it had to be done professionally. Advice many here would back me on. Do your kids listen to you? 

Next thing I know, I get an email. They are renting a lift, his dad is coming with his chain saw, and I am to bring mine. The power company came and dropped the power line coming in between the trees. We took down the cable and phone ourselves. It took 3 days of nibbling, but the trees are gone with no problems at all. 

A small lift will onlyu run a little over $100/day. 

Before that, I had attack a big leaner in my front yard. Hollow and all the weight on the side towards the house. I also wanted to miss another tree. Hinged and wedged it. It did come closer to the house than I aimed, but within my margin of error.


----------



## bitzer (Dec 6, 2010)

stihl 440 said:


> Dude....i fall timber for a living....been for 10yrs....i didnt say GOL is the only way but it DOES work for alot of situations......as much of the twisted up dangerous steep ground that i work on i probably GOL 1-4 trees a day...depending on the circumstances...i use another technique that one of the best veteran fallers that i know taught me and im not about to give it up over the net....you work with me for a day you MIGHT catch me doing it...you might not...



Whenever you are ready to reveal such stunning secrets please let me know, Houdini. I'd really like to see some stuff thats more badass than the best guys on here. You might be able to revolutionize an entire industry. You teach any young roust-abouts today?


----------



## 056 kid (Dec 6, 2010)

stihl 440 said:


> Dude....i fall timber for a living....been for 10yrs....i didnt say GOL is the only way but it DOES work for alot of situations......as much of the twisted up dangerous steep ground that i work on i probably GOL 1-4 trees a day...depending on the circumstances...i use another technique that one of the best veteran fallers that i know taught me and im not about to give it up over the net....you work with me for a day you MIGHT catch me doing it...you might not...


----------



## ropensaddle (Dec 6, 2010)

Here is a way I do it sometimes especially sweetgums,poplars etc!



Excuse my art lol


----------



## ropensaddle (Dec 6, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> Here is a way I do it sometimes especially sweetgums,poplars etc!
> 
> 
> 
> Excuse my art lol



The anchor cable needs to be tight, snug and directly behind lean or slightly toward direction
of fall and behind lean as it will tighten more as tree begins flight. It is important for the cable to be adequate to withstand forces placed on it as well. On gums the hinge almost always breaks if these control measures are skipped. If it does not have to swing much I will many times skip that step and adjust gun to a lesser degree!


----------



## stihl 440 (Dec 6, 2010)

bitzercreek1 said:


> Whenever you are ready to reveal such stunning secrets please let me know, Houdini. I'd really like to see some stuff thats more badass than the best guys on here. You might be able to revolutionize an entire industry. You teach any young roust-abouts today?



Hmmmmm...LMFAO...when did i say the stuff i do is bada$$?..inform me.....because i clearly dont know....LMFAO!!!!!!!

Oooohhh...wait wait wait....i cant forget this...WHO is the best guy on here?......how long have you worked with them?....how many loads did you pull that day?...lmao


----------



## 056 kid (Dec 6, 2010)

I wanna know the old timers ancient Chinese secret. . . 

If there is actually one


----------



## stihl 440 (Dec 6, 2010)

056 kid said:


>


----------



## stihl 440 (Dec 6, 2010)

056 kid said:


> I wanna know the old timers ancient Chinese secret. . .
> 
> If there is actually one



Well we all know YOU dont have any.....i've read your posts....


----------



## 056 kid (Dec 7, 2010)

Sure dont, Im not Chinese dumbass. 

So go ahead and enlighten us Mr. badass. Tell me all your top secret 440 cutting skills:yoyo:


----------



## stihl 440 (Dec 7, 2010)

I love it!!!...lmao this is great!!!!! lololololol...some kid wants me to teach him to cut!!.....hahahahahahahahah......sorry....the ignorance is sooooo funny though.......you have alot to learn young whipper snapper.......cockyness gets many upon many of people hurt......obviously by that statement you perhaps dont know it all?...like you once may have thaught?....if you dont learn something everyday in the woods....stay home!!!.....you can babble on more.......but it escalades the ignorance.....

if you have anything else to say you can PM me...i like to keep some 056 spam out of the threads...


----------



## logbutcher (Dec 7, 2010)

Girls, girls, girls. Here I thought to get another couple of bags o tricks for felling.
So what do we get:
*Panty pulls.*:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## ropensaddle (Dec 7, 2010)

logbutcher said:


> Girls, girls, girls. Here I thought to get another couple of bags o tricks for felling.
> So what do we get:
> *Panty pulls.*:hmm3grin2orange:



Ewwwwwwwww wedgie in the woods


----------



## slowp (Dec 7, 2010)

logbutcher said:


> Girls, girls, girls. Here I thought to get another couple of bags o tricks for felling.
> So what do we get:
> *Panty pulls.*:hmm3grin2orange:



Please don't insult girls.


----------



## bitzer (Dec 7, 2010)

stihl 440 said:


> I love it!!!...lmao this is great!!!!! lololololol...some kid wants me to teach him to cut!!.....hahahahahahahahah......sorry....the ignorance is sooooo funny though.......you have alot to learn young whipper snapper.......cockyness gets many upon many of people hurt......obviously by that statement you perhaps dont know it all?...like you once may have thaught?....if you dont learn something everyday in the woods....stay home!!!.....you can babble on more.......but it escalades the ignorance.....
> 
> if you have anything else to say you can PM me...i like to keep some 056 spam out of the threads...



I've been around plenty of dudes like you. All talk and no show. Everyone needs a hobby I guess.


----------



## logbutcher (Dec 7, 2010)

bitzercreek1 said:


> I've been around plenty of dudes like you. All talk and no show. Everyone needs a hobby I guess.



WTF is this ?:chainsawguy:

Can we please get on track ?:notrolls2:

Oh, get rid of this "dude" thing. There are no ranches Downeast.


----------



## 056 kid (Dec 7, 2010)

The ignorance 'escalades' alright...

Im not asking you to teach me to cut. . . I am challenging you and your "secrets". .


----------



## stihl 440 (Dec 7, 2010)

bitzercreek1 said:


> I've been around plenty of dudes like you. All talk and no show. Everyone needs a hobby I guess.



Huh...funny...i thaught the same thing about you when i read your comment........they say you can act like the people your around alot.....judging by this...must be the truth.


----------



## ropensaddle (Dec 7, 2010)

I gave a good drawing on this subject and the feuding began lol.


----------



## stihl 440 (Dec 7, 2010)

056 kid said:


> Im not asking you to teach me to cut. . . I am challenging you and your "secrets". .



define to me your definition of..."secrets"....because your dictionary must be better than mine.....:yoyo:


----------



## stihl 440 (Dec 7, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> I gave a good drawing on this subject and the feuding began lol.



Sorry buddy....ill say it...i liked your drawing....lolololol:chainsawguy::rockn::jester:


----------



## 056 kid (Dec 7, 2010)

stihl 440 said:


> Dude....i fall timber for a living....been for 10yrs....i didnt say GOL is the only way but it DOES work for alot of situations......as much of the twisted up dangerous steep ground that i work on i probably GOL 1-4 trees a day...depending on the circumstances...*i use another technique that one of the best veteran fallers that i know taught me and im not about to give it up over the net....you work with me for a day you MIGHT catch me doing it*...you might not...




Sounds like a secret to me, or maybe a bluff.


----------



## stihl 440 (Dec 7, 2010)

056 kid said:


> Sounds like a secret to me, or maybe a bluff.



Why would i bluff?....why would i have reason to?......


----------



## 056 kid (Dec 7, 2010)

Why would you get all up in arms? I dont know the answer.


----------



## stihl 440 (Dec 7, 2010)

056 kid said:


> Sounds like a secret to me, or maybe a bluff.



Ok...wait wait wait...let me ask you this....if YOU where working with a veteran faller that has 35 years in this business....and he taught you something that he said to keep to yourself and use when you need to....and you worked so hard and had to have so much respect to get him to teach it to you....would you tell it?


----------



## 056 kid (Dec 7, 2010)

If it could help other people out, yea I would.


----------



## stihl 440 (Dec 7, 2010)

056 kid said:


> If it could help other people out, yea I would.



Thats you...this is me....its a level of respect that i intend to keep....he sure as he11 didnt go and say ok i know this, this, this, this, this, this, and this....no...huh uh...that didnt happen....but i started to notice the more i cut with him and the skidders where gone.....he'd stop me once in awhile and say here let me show you somethin'....he'd show me a trick here...and there...here....and there....im not sure if he taught me everything he knows....but i noticed the more i just kept my mouth shut and eyes and ears open..the more he would show.


----------



## CNBTreeTrimming (Dec 7, 2010)

I think I know the "secret". Don't get your gas from Mexican food and use a Sharp chain.


----------



## hammerlogging (Dec 8, 2010)

Is the secret to have only ever worked with one other faller, thereby considering his tricks divine inspiration, and as he is better than you, to consider him godly?

There is very little information out there that only one person knows.


----------



## stihl 440 (Dec 8, 2010)

hammerlogging said:


> Is the secret to have only ever worked with one other faller, thereby considering his tricks divine inspiration, and as he is better than you, to consider him godly?
> 
> There is very little information out there that only one person knows.



Hes not the ONLY one....i've worked and cut with many.....but he was the most knowlegable that I cut with IMO....when did i mention god?..or godly?


----------



## bitzer (Dec 8, 2010)

stihl 440 said:


> Huh...funny...i thaught the same thing about you when i read your comment........they say you can act like the people your around alot.....judging by this...must be the truth.



I've posted a bunch of pics of my work around here. I haven't seen any of yours anywhere though. Maybe I've just missed them. Theres only a handful of guys on this forum that I would put in the "best," category. I would be honored to pack their gas and oil.


----------



## bitzer (Dec 8, 2010)

logbutcher said:


> WTF is this ?:chainsawguy:
> 
> Can we please get on track ?:notrolls2:
> 
> Oh, get rid of this "dude" thing. There are no ranches Downeast.



Well quit taking it off track. Dude is deragatory in this neck of the woods.


----------



## logbutcher (Dec 8, 2010)

bitzercreek1 said:


> Well quit taking it off track. Dude is deragatory in this neck of the woods.



Spellch_i_ck is your friend......dude. :yoyo:

Sounds like a Valley Girl thing.


----------



## ropensaddle (Dec 8, 2010)

The way I see this pro feller stuff in areas where potential damage to life limb houses etc. Safe guards such as but not limited too ropes,cables,winch,wedges,etc separate true pro fellers from notch extraordinaire and I don't care what certs they hold. I have fell more trees near houses powerlines than I care to remember and without careful safeguards massive destruction would of been mere wind gust away. In a woods scenario I could fell trees with a dutchman to save wood and lay them pretty much where I want them but near collateral there is absolutely nothing wrong with knowing safeguards will make certain damage doesn't occur:monkey:


----------



## Burvol (Dec 8, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> Here is a way I do it sometimes especially sweetgums,poplars etc!
> 
> 
> 
> Excuse my art lol



Holy ####, that was the best picture ever! Out of rep for ya bud. WOW!


----------



## forestryworks (Dec 8, 2010)

You're a faller or you ain't. A feller is a regular ol' fella.


----------



## ropensaddle (Dec 8, 2010)

forestryworks said:


> You're a faller or you ain't. A feller is a regular ol' fella.



Hmmm So if I am a feller, felling trees in tight places properly rigged but started falling down the cliff when loose rock become dislodged I would be a faller,feller,and fellow falling right


----------



## ropensaddle (Dec 8, 2010)

Burvol said:


> Holy ####, that was the best picture ever! Out of rep for ya bud. WOW!



Hell yeah Burv it works well bro as long as there is nothing in the cables path lol. I have other safeguards for when those things happen though. To be honest a pike pole is a great tool for felling where limited damage may occur. I realize many of you can't carry much gear and help up them mountains but really the consequence of having one go astray in the bush vrs between two houses I would be using wedges and tricks I have picked up on through my years too.


----------



## ropensaddle (Dec 8, 2010)

Pike pole made from large pruner poles encapsulated in pvc head shaped from mild steel and affixed the pole! Can be stuck in at decent height and used to shove trees into intended paths but does have limitations!


----------



## DangerTree (Dec 8, 2010)

Wow that is a hard one so many variables. It matters that one knows the environment ie. houses, power lines, dense forest etc. risk of failure.
First thing to remember is a cut tree is a commitment. So if you are not sure you are not safe!
Secondly it is not wise to trust holding wood in some cases.
That being said many techniques such as tall faces, installing the undercut pie into the corners of faces, cutting a second angle into the lower face and gunning a compensation into the lay may all be used. And yes a suitable bull rope and possibly tag lines may be required.
My suggestion would be to try to test these techniques in a safe environment and avoid the use of a Dutchman whenever possible. Not that they don't work they can work fine but are more unpredictable than other methods. The hing wood is put under greater pressure with the Dutchman and premature breakage does happen. Around homes and power control is paramount and ropes are almost always incorporated.


----------



## sawinredneck (Dec 8, 2010)

Nice pics Rope!:hmm3grin2orange:

This guy is wicked good, a true badass! BUT he is in softwood and this tree has a small amount of lean to swing.
<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/tbN1sKN7IlI?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/tbN1sKN7IlI?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Now the tree you are talking about, I don't think you have a prayer unless you can pull it, but setting it up and doing the cuts will be just flat scary!!
To give an idea, a couple years ago I was cutting a 36" standing dead Oak. 15deg lean, where I wanted it to go and a head wind. I made a fairly small face cut, just less than 1/3, it had a good lean, then made a normal backcut. As I was in the cut, the wind shifted on me and it barberchaired 15ft up!
I got lucky!
I should have made a normal face cut, I should have bore cut it, and I was relying heavily on unpredictable weather. 
This is not a tree to learn on, and without pics, I can't say a faller would try it even. Depends on the lean, obstacles and how the weight is set in the top of the tree.
Good luck.


----------



## DangerTree (Dec 8, 2010)

sawinredneck said:


> Nice pics Rope!:hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> This guy is wicked good, a true badass! BUT he is in softwood and this tree has a small amount of lean to swing.
> <object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/tbN1sKN7IlI?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/tbN1sKN7IlI?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>
> ...


Nice clip take note the location allows for a mistake to happen. And that should dictate whether you try it or not. Working with a guy like him is the best way to learn.


----------



## ropensaddle (Dec 8, 2010)

sawinredneck said:


> Nice pics Rope!:hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> This guy is wicked good, a true badass! BUT he is in softwood and this tree has a small amount of lean to swing.
> <object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/tbN1sKN7IlI?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/tbN1sKN7IlI?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>
> ...



Yeah them bad asses just stand there until a butt kicks them into oblivion! He did good ,slow but good now picture same thing with 300k home on each side and 20 foot window of error do you really want his method or rigging employed? Plus that is conifer I want to see 50" 121' red oak with lean cut and I have cut many bigger but the differences are vast. I can do what he does he may or may not can do what I do. But hey he used the right saw


----------



## ropensaddle (Dec 8, 2010)

Here is him one red oak 20 degree lean over the roof let us see his method here!


and quit standing at the stump lmfao


----------



## ropensaddle (Dec 8, 2010)

Money shot and man I like cowboy hard hats:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## sawinredneck (Dec 8, 2010)

Wasn't saying he's any better than many on here, just used that as an example of how hard it is.


----------



## ropensaddle (Dec 8, 2010)

sawinredneck said:


> Wasn't saying he's any better than many on here, just used that as an example of how hard it is.



I know it is just if all I was doing was felling in the woods 300 per day would be doable ya know! To me pro felling is in tight potential destruction areas the rest is logging accept , snags; that can be extreme.


----------



## sawinredneck (Dec 8, 2010)

I've worked a lot of both, I cut firewood in thick woods and have to plan and be able to fell the tree in a safe manner, in the lay I want it to go. Be it between four trees I need to save, or to get better access to buck it up and get it out.
In residential areas I find I have more options. I have more area to work with, I have means of getting equipment in to use mechanical advantage with a pull line, or I can climb it and piece it out to a manageable spar, or piece it all the way down.
I enjoy being out in the woods, but I find that type of falling harder, less stressful for sure, but harder.


----------



## ropensaddle (Dec 8, 2010)

sawinredneck said:


> I've worked a lot of both, I cut firewood in thick woods and have to plan and be able to fell the tree in a safe manner, in the lay I want it to go. Be it between four trees I need to save, or to get better access to buck it up and get it out.
> In residential areas I find I have more options. I have more area to work with, I have means of getting equipment in to use mechanical advantage with a pull line, or I can climb it and piece it out to a manageable spar, or piece it all the way down.
> I enjoy being out in the woods, but I find that type of falling harder, less stressful for sure, but harder.



You must be talking physically harder I have cut many thousands of new right of ways through mountain passes and the like and the saw feels like you have the world by the balls at days end. It is all hard work that is for sure ain't no wussies gonna even make a week at it. I was doing mobile oil pipeline clearance in the hot Texas sun some 25 year ago and every road creek you had to drive post and put signs up and paint the pipe if exposed it sucked lol


----------



## sawinredneck (Dec 8, 2010)

No, I am thinning cutting, trying to leave room for the tree's to mature. Take one out of five tree's and move on, that type of work. Minimize the damage to surrounding wood as much as I can, kind of the "tread lightly" of logging. Clear cutting is easy:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## stihl 440 (Dec 8, 2010)

bitzercreek1 said:


> I've posted a bunch of pics of my work around here. I haven't seen any of yours anywhere though. Maybe I've just missed them. Theres only a handful of guys on this forum that I would put in the "best," category. I would be honored to pack their gas and oil.



If the boss sees me with a camera in hand and not a saw....i'd be fired....my job is to put trees on the ground....not take pictures....im glad you have all that free time on your hands....cause i dont....


----------



## ropensaddle (Dec 8, 2010)

sawinredneck said:


> No, I am thinning cutting, trying to leave room for the tree's to mature. Take one out of five tree's and move on, that type of work. Minimize the damage to surrounding wood as much as I can, kind of the "tread lightly" of logging. Clear cutting is easy:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:



Oh k I do that well too I mean make em look like dis and minimal bush damage is easy right!


----------



## bitzer (Dec 8, 2010)

logbutcher said:


> Spellch_i_ck is your friend......dude. :yoyo:
> 
> Sounds like a Valley Girl thing.



You ever heard of Hank jr? You must be some kinda city folk then. I'm not even sure why the hell you had to chime in. If you flip back a few pages you notice I offered my opinion on depth of face and what I thought will work as a reaction to what was already said. Houdini was the dandy that had to start with the bs. Eh, whatever. I think I recall a thread you were in once before. Oh yeah, think it had somthing to do with kick back and you were the "WOT or nothin" guy? Have fun with your butcherin.


----------



## bitzer (Dec 8, 2010)

stihl 440 said:


> If the boss sees me with a camera in hand and not a saw....i'd be fired....my job is to put trees on the ground....not take pictures....im glad you have all that free time on your hands....cause i dont....



I work alone mostly. Doesn't take more than a couple of seconds to take a pic and I don't do it very often. Just saying, I've got a little to back my BS. 

This type of #### gets old real fast.


----------



## bitzer (Dec 8, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> I know it is just if all I was doing was felling in the woods 300 per day would be doable ya know! To me pro felling is in tight potential destruction areas the rest is logging accept , snags; that can be extreme.



I think you're talkin apples and orange Rope. Time and more equipment are on your side. You're right though to the OP he should be looking for alternatives on a one tree deal with more equipment on questionable wood. #### can get ugly fast.


----------



## ropensaddle (Dec 8, 2010)

bitzercreek1 said:


> I think you're talkin apples and orange Rope. Time and more equipment are on your side. You're right though to the OP he should be looking for alternatives on a one tree deal with more equipment on questionable wood. #### can get ugly fast.



I have been a saw hand for local loggers they all call me when it gets near the power lines and many times I don't slow their production. I have helped some crews on per day basis so I have cut logs, the money is not the best use of my time but I can stay with most but the youngest fellers. I won't work for any outfit that has everyone cutting too close and dips on skidders acting like their being filmed for axe men.


----------



## bitzer (Dec 8, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> I have been a saw hand for local loggers they all call me when it gets near the power lines and many times I don't slow their production. I have helped some crews on per day basis so I have cut logs, the money is not the best use of my time but I can stay with most but the youngest fellers. I won't work for any outfit that has everyone cutting too close and dips on skidders acting like their being filmed for axe men.



Not trying to give you hell man. I have respect for you from what i've read from your posts. A guy in the woods with a saw and his wits is a little different from the cut grasses. I'd say you're the exception though. I also know where the moneys at for me. I usually get paid more in the city, but I'd rather be in the woods.


----------



## ropensaddle (Dec 8, 2010)

bitzercreek1 said:


> Not trying to give you hell man. I have respect for you from what i've read from your posts. A guy in the woods with a saw and his wits is a little different from the cut grasses. I'd say you're the exception though. I also know where the moneys at for me. I usually get paid more in the city, but I'd rather be in the woods.



Now your talking, I would rather as well but I have to make too much to stay ahead of the wolves lol  I have not met many timber or tree men that I could not like once getting to know them. We may be fussy at times but were real.


----------



## DangerTree (Dec 8, 2010)

sawinredneck said:


> No, I am thinning cutting, trying to leave room for the tree's to mature. Take one out of five tree's and move on, that type of work. Minimize the damage to surrounding wood as much as I can, kind of the "tread lightly" of logging. Clear cutting is easy:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


Dude thats called spacing and it ain't rocket science. For that matter when you know what your'e doing, the majority of tree work is just another day at the office.


----------



## Yoopermike (Dec 8, 2010)

"All I need is one more saw, then I can stop collecting".......... im sorry but there is something seriously WRONG with that statement!!! but then again CAD infects us all in different ways


----------



## sawinredneck (Dec 8, 2010)

Very nice Rope! But I'm not climbing any trees for firewood!:hmm3grin2orange:





DangerTree said:


> Dude thats called spacing and it ain't rocket science. For that matter when you know what your'e doing, the majority of tree work is just another day at the office.



Dude, around here we call it thinning, same damn thing, but in thick stands of Oak, on hills, when you are trying to minimize damage to surrounding tree's and foliage, with minimal equipment. It can be quite challenging. I don't like hanging a 24" DBH Oak then have to "fencepost" it down. I like to shoot between the trees. 
No, it's not rocket science, but it sure can be a challenge.


----------



## stihl 440 (Dec 8, 2010)

bitzercreek1 said:


> I work alone mostly. Doesn't take more than a couple of seconds to take a pic and I don't do it very often. Just saying, I've got a little to back my BS.
> 
> This type of #### gets old real fast.



I put my boots on when you walked in..........my boss usually works right with me....like he was today......i work/cut alone sometimes...not all the time though...usually theres a 2nd person near by such as skidder operator which is him sometimes.....but for you it shows an un-safe practice of working by yourself....when OSHA catches you i dont wanna be around....:yoyo:


----------



## DangerTree (Dec 9, 2010)

sawinredneck said:


> Very nice Rope! But I'm not climbing any trees for firewood!:hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Around here spacing is what you said and thinning is removing limbs and branches for smaller knots or less competition. Not same thing.


----------



## sawinredneck (Dec 9, 2010)

I guess thats a Canukian misunderstanding. We "thin" the woods out to develop better growth of the remaining trees.
In residential, we prune or reduce trees.
But what do I know?


----------



## DangerTree (Dec 9, 2010)

Oh I see no wait no I don't. Around here we Space in the forest and we Thin in the forest. We thin to reduce knot size and count to get higher grade timber. Also to reduce blow down at the leading edge of tree lines. But what do I know?
Real trees not woosie 24" DBH trees! 150' plus trees.

Oh I like a good battle!:chainsawguy:


----------



## sawinredneck (Dec 9, 2010)

Damn, can't help you much, where I do most of my firewood cutting/thinning, it's so overgrown a 24" Oak is a pretty good find.
I've dropped a couple of 36" and a 42" Oak, not bad.
Now if you really want to play, we can hook you up with a 46" Hedge?


----------



## DangerTree (Dec 9, 2010)

How bout a 12' Western Red Cedar got one next spring ready for shakin' The top was blown of at 140' +/- but she's still sound. Should get 3 or 4 good pallets from it. Some as shingle I'd guess No1 and No2 grade weeel see.


----------



## sawinredneck (Dec 9, 2010)

See, that's easy, just a straight spar, easy to read the lean.
Get a big canopy above you, read the weight, which was is she going to go?
Is that Hedge solid, or is it a bunch of codoms grown together into a twisted mass waiting to barberchair my ass?


----------



## DangerTree (Dec 9, 2010)

You see now you got me there in all my 30 years of felling I've never cut a broad tree. Can you believe that?


----------



## sawinredneck (Dec 9, 2010)

No, I can't!

I'm sorry, I didn't mean that last post to be as degrading as it read, it's not EASY! It's a lot of work! You have to wrestle with a large saw, hope it's not rotten and watch for widow makers. It's an incredibly hard job and I wont take anything away from you for that. You earn and deserve respect for doing it. That post came off disrespectful and I am sorry for that.
It's easy to read the lean and the lay of a tree like that is what I meant. I can fall the spindly Oaks all day long now and put them where I want. Reading the weight and lean on a large canopy on a Hedge or Locust tree spread all over, it's easy to make a mistake!


----------



## DangerTree (Dec 9, 2010)

Thank you very much for your back handed apology. I too apologize back handedly for my terse remarks. It is very easy to fall rotund trees and broad trees do indeed take more skill. I hope your future en devours are safe and profitable.


----------



## sawinredneck (Dec 9, 2010)

Try and be nice..................:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## DangerTree (Dec 9, 2010)

You like that huh? Me not so stupid glass slopper.


----------



## sawinredneck (Dec 9, 2010)

Didn't mean to imply that at all! I was honestly apologizing above. I've no reason to disrespect you for what you do! It's a damn sight harder than what I do for sure! I can drive in with the mini, chainsaw hanging off the side, drop some trees and have the trailer loaded with a tank of gas in the saw and the mini and come home in two hours.
Two hours is probably less time than you spend packing in and out everyday, on foot! I can't do that.


----------



## DangerTree (Dec 9, 2010)

Apology accepted. I also apologize but ya' got like a good struggle don't ya? By the way I think we are alone on this thread. SHHHH Be Vewy Qwiet.


----------



## sawinredneck (Dec 9, 2010)

I've falled some interesting trees for sure, if that's what you mean! Made some really dumb mistakes along the way. Learned a lot the hard way! Biggest bar I have is a 32", I figure with my skill level, if I can't fall it with that, I've no business trying! Know your limits and respect them!
Rope will be back tomorrow, so we wont be alone then, but I sure think the OP bugged out quick like!


----------



## DangerTree (Dec 9, 2010)

So far I've been lucky I have managed to learn from others mistakes. But I'm not totally immune. Almost checked out 3 months ago when a heavy top spun and wrapped the bull rope around my body. I somehow weasled my way round the trunk before it cut me in half. Just not my time I guess.


----------



## slowp (Dec 9, 2010)

What is this? The pick it apart thread? The get upset over terms thread? 

Thinning, spacing, like it matters. 

By the way, we call it thinning here. There's precommercial thinning. That's the saplings, and there's commercial thinning. That's the stuff that goes to the mills. 

Every timber sale here is a thinning and has THIN in the name. Now, up to the nort, maybe you call it spacing, but don't start another name calling round on here, pleeeeze. :deadhorse:

Everybody OK? Group hug?


----------



## RandyMac (Dec 9, 2010)

I'm puttin' a frog in your boots sweetP


----------



## slowp (Dec 9, 2010)

RandyMac said:


> I'm puttin' a frog in your boots sweetP



Thanks for the reminder. I need to get them off the dryer and into the car.
Poor frog. It would be an unpleasant death for both of us!

A restaurant packet thingie of ketchup, with a pinprick hole in it, works well and does not kill any poor little creatures.


----------



## RandyMac (Dec 9, 2010)

nachos and toothpaste are always good


----------



## ropensaddle (Dec 9, 2010)

slowp said:


> Thanks for the reminder. I need to get them off the dryer and into the car.
> Poor frog. It would be an unpleasant death for both of us!
> 
> A restaurant packet thingie of ketchup, with a pinprick hole in it, works well and does not kill any poor little creatures.



Hey slowp are you wanna them peta members? I hope not I just smushed a spider:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## sawinredneck (Dec 9, 2010)

We were just having some fun!


----------



## ropensaddle (Dec 9, 2010)

sawinredneck said:


> We were just having some fun!



In that case de-sting three or four scorpions put in boots that will wake someone up in the am:monkey: I used to carry them around after I carefully cut the stinger off, it had people wandering lol. I don't know if the stinger grew back they never quite lived long enough to know!


----------



## Brian13 (Dec 9, 2010)

slowp said:


> Thanks for the reminder. I need to get them off the dryer and into the car.
> Poor frog. It would be an unpleasant death for both of us!
> 
> A restaurant packet thingie of ketchup, with a pinprick hole in it, works well and does not kill any poor little creatures.



Nothing is better than the expression on a friends face when they find the glove they have just put on has every finger completely full of silicone. Not the nicest of pranks, but sure is funny.



sawinredneck said:


> I've falled some interesting trees for sure, if that's what you mean! Made some really dumb mistakes along the way. Learned a lot the hard way! Biggest bar I have is a 32", I figure with my skill level, if I can't fall it with that, I've no business trying! Know your limits and respect them!
> Rope will be back tomorrow, so we wont be alone then, *but I sure think the OP bugged out quick like!*



Thread is really not going in the direction I had hoped! I thank those that have tried to add to this as a discussion. Once again I am trying to start an in depth discussion on techniques used....all techniques used, with an emphasis on dealing with lean but not limited to that. I have done some reading and watched a few videos on dutchmans and have a decent understanding of how they work. But what is a siswheel, I think I understand what it is but not for sure. When is it best applied and what are its limitations? Blockface cuts, what is there application what are there limits and how does snipes affect them? Ropeandsaddle, do you have any pics of your technique in use?


----------



## joesawer (Dec 10, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> Nothing is better than the expression on a friends face when they find the glove they have just put on has every finger completely full of silicone. Not the nicest of pranks, but sure is funny.
> 
> 
> 
> Thread is really not going in the direction I had hoped! I thank those that have tried to add to this as a discussion. Once again I am trying to start an in depth discussion on techniques used....all techniques used, with an emphasis on dealing with lean but not limited to that. I have done some reading and watched a few videos on dutchmans and have a decent understanding of how they work. But what is a siswheel, I think I understand what it is but not for sure. When is it best applied and what are its limitations? Blockface cuts, what is there application what are there limits and how does snipes affect them? Ropeandsaddle, do you have any pics of your technique in use?





Trees are made of fiber.
Block face bends the fiber over a longer distance than does a face that bends the fiber over a short point.
A straight block face puts two round corners in contact when it closes and can make some very exciting things happen.
A snipe gives a flat surface something to close on. It also helps the butt slip down to the ground and reduces fiber pull.
(I figured out why some people call a snipe a swanson. Swanson is a brand of speed square and one look at their display at Lowe's and you will see the snipe.)
The siswheel is just the socially acceptable word for a sheep's cant and is just another way to get the fiber to hold longer.


----------



## bitzer (Dec 10, 2010)

stihl 440 said:


> I put my boots on when you walked in..........my boss usually works right with me....like he was today......i work/cut alone sometimes...not all the time though...usually theres a 2nd person near by such as skidder operator which is him sometimes.....but for you it shows an un-safe practice of working by yourself....when OSHA catches you i dont wanna be around....:yoyo:



I meant the back and forth bickering like a couple of old bags gets old real quick. Eh. Whatever. You cut wood, I cut wood. We do it our own way. No one has to agree. More ideas come out of arguement anyway. Well, if its constructive.


----------



## DangerTree (Dec 11, 2010)

Who you callin old bag there fluffy. We sorted things out! Now mind yer bidness like a good lil' buckeroo.


----------



## DangerTree (Dec 11, 2010)

By the way there sunny boy I go ruffneckin on my DOWN time. Not rubbin' my man parts eatin' cheetos while watchin' Oprah. If anyone can take care of his own bidness it be me!


----------



## ropensaddle (Dec 11, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> Ropeandsaddle, do you have any pics of your technique in use?



I can make one for you but no. Truthfully though I came by it natural or in other words did not see it in a book the technique likely precedes me a many century. In a nut shell you are anchoring the tree behind it then pulling the direction you want it to swing if hinge breaks the anchor takes its place facilitating a safe more controlled swing. Like a tether you must make certain it is behind lean and remember if it is too low it can be more dangerous causing butt to kick toward you and to high can cause it to swing too far. That is just one way to do the job but you also have to make certain the anchor does not contact another tree or fixed object in the felling process. You can also do the same thing by adjusting the winch to be somewhat behind lean but some toward the desired felling area but it has to be a stout winch and heavy truck or equipment to do so. the winch then pulls and swings as you quickly take up slack when it starts falling. I have adopted many different ways that work in your case being codomanent stem it is quite possibly better pieced down. How high off the ground would you have to be to cut this tree?


----------



## RandyMac (Dec 11, 2010)

Hey Rope, what happened to the hillbilly accent? You type like a Yankee.


----------



## ropensaddle (Dec 11, 2010)

RandyMac said:


> Hey Rope, what happened to the hillbilly accent? You type like a Yankee.



Lol I use it sometimes you know days a too fer avery need


----------



## RandyMac (Dec 11, 2010)

Well, now I know it's really you.


----------



## DangerTree (Dec 11, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> I can make one for you but no. Truthfully though I came by it natural or in other words did not see it in a book the technique likely precedes me a many century. In a nut shell you are anchoring the tree behind it then pulling the direction you want it to swing if hinge breaks the anchor takes its place facilitating a safe more controlled swing. Like a tether you must make certain it is behind lean and remember if it is too low it can be more dangerous causing butt to kick toward you and to high can cause it to swing too far. That is just one way to do the job but you also have to make certain the anchor does not contact another tree or fixed object in the felling process. You can also do the same thing by adjusting the winch to be somewhat behind lean but some toward the desired felling area but it has to be a stout winch and heavy truck or equipment to do so. the winch then pulls and swings as you quickly take up slack when it starts falling. I have adopted many different ways that work in your case being codomanent stem it is quite possibly better pieced down. How high off the ground would you have to be to cut this tree?


Can`t you also leave a little slack in the anchor to prevent it over yankin`the butt


----------



## bitzer (Dec 11, 2010)

DangerTree said:


> Who you callin old bag there fluffy. We sorted things out! Now mind yer bidness like a good lil' buckeroo.



Wasn't talkin to you man. That was between me and 440. BTW its sittn on a bean bag eatin cheetos watchin vivid.


----------



## ropensaddle (Dec 11, 2010)

DangerTree said:


> Can`t you also leave a little slack in the anchor to prevent it over yankin`the butt



Well yes you can it depends on anchor placement and needs carefully planed but yes. For that matter it could be suitable rope and wraps but forces would need a considerable factor for safety and rope fatigue!


----------



## stihl 440 (Dec 11, 2010)

bitzercreek1 said:


> I meant the back and forth bickering like a couple of old bags gets old real quick. Eh. Whatever. You cut wood, I cut wood. We do it our own way. No one has to agree. More ideas come out of arguement anyway. Well, if its constructive.



Ill agree with you on this one...


----------



## 056 kid (Dec 11, 2010)

Show us pictures stihl 440







or you dont exist. .


----------



## hammerlogging (Dec 11, 2010)

slowp said:


> What is this? The pick it apart thread? The get upset over terms thread?
> Thinning, spacing, like it matters.
> cheers:



you mean to say semantics is still not a substitute for intelligence?


----------



## logbutcher (Dec 11, 2010)

hammerlogging said:


> you mean to say semantics is still not a substitute for intelligence?



&%#@&%@$ Please to explain ???

....the meaning of "IS" .


----------



## FSburt (Dec 11, 2010)

joesawer said:


> Trees are made of fiber.
> Block face bends the fiber over a longer distance than does a face that bends the fiber over a short point.
> A straight block face puts two round corners in contact when it closes and can make some very exciting things happen.
> A snipe gives a flat surface something to close on. It also helps the butt slip down to the ground and reduces fiber pull.
> ...


----------



## RandyMac (Dec 11, 2010)

Fiber pull is part of it.

Properly tailored, a blockcut can control nearly every aspect of the trees path to the ground. In other words, you have the possiblity of making the tree do whatever you want.


----------



## joesawer (Dec 12, 2010)

Hey Joe I have been told that using the block face is for holding a tree closer to the stump especially if its quartered downhill so it does not sled run. Also seen it used alot on the old big timber around here mainly big Sugar Pine and Fir or if a side leaner needs to be held to the stump longer. Do you use this cut on the situations above?[/QUOTE]


I love using a block face when the tree justifies the time it takes to put it in. I use a snipe with it and it does get the but down right against the stump, but I don't know that it will keep the tree on the hill any better. On steep ground it can still take off once it hits the ground.
On a side leaner I like giving the wood a few more inches to bend around it seems that it has to be stronger. 
But once the face closes it has to break.


----------



## hammerlogging (Dec 12, 2010)

Thats where the siswheel starts to come in to play, it keeps the uphill side of the hinge active once the regular face closes- we're talking swinging trees sidehill here right?


----------



## stihl 440 (Dec 12, 2010)

056 kid said:


> Show us pictures stihl 440
> 
> 
> 
> ...



And get fired?...i dont think so...ill let you think what you want before i lose my job over you...just becuase you wanna be a J-O....have a nice day...and instead of just BSing on here on this subject that has already been settled...go get a job and go actually cut trees....


----------



## 056 kid (Dec 12, 2010)

Been there, done that,

YOU ever fall any red oak of this caliber? Getting fired is a bull #### excuse dude. .

http://www.arboristsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135133&d=1272572911

http://www.arboristsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135131&d=1272572751

yea thats a spring board hole. . so talk #### if you want to. . .


----------



## ropensaddle (Dec 12, 2010)

056 kid said:


> Been there, done that,
> 
> YOU ever fall any red oak of this caliber? Getting fired is a bull #### excuse dude. .
> 
> ...



We don't cut the saplings down here:hmm3grin2orange: 



hmmmmmm is that the 5'6" kidoke:





Ah O Ima gopay ferdat


----------



## 056 kid (Dec 12, 2010)

taller than me at the widest point, so over 6 feet, some of it is butt flair, but dag namit, Im gonna have my little parade


----------



## ropensaddle (Dec 12, 2010)

056 kid said:


> taller than me at the widest point, so over 6 feet, some of it is butt flair, but dag namit, Im gonna have my little parade



Its a good un fer sure Most of ours hollow at that size I cut one 67" past flare here in arkythaw but them big-uns are mostly cut now a days.


----------



## 056 kid (Dec 12, 2010)

Your right.

I cut a stove pipe chesnut oak that I could have stood inside had it not busted to pieces upon landing. Oh well, made it easy to get on the wood truck.

There are still some around though. The hollow where my old boss man lives has some amazing timber in it. I know of a red oak that Im pretty sure dwarfs mine. I cant guess the diameter, but i know there is at least 3 20's in it with not a knot in them, well from what I can see from the road.

Boss man says he knows places above his property that have timber so clear and tall that it would make your head spin. Ive seen some of it native fishing but he has tramped every square foot of that mountain, I believe him!


----------



## Brian13 (Dec 12, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> I can make one for you but no. Truthfully though I came by it natural or in other words did not see it in a book the technique likely precedes me a many century. In a nut shell you are anchoring the tree behind it then pulling the direction you want it to swing if hinge breaks the anchor takes its place facilitating a safe more controlled swing. Like a tether you must make certain it is behind lean and remember if it is too low it can be more dangerous causing butt to kick toward you and to high can cause it to swing too far. That is just one way to do the job but you also have to make certain the anchor does not contact another tree or fixed object in the felling process. You can also do the same thing by adjusting the winch to be somewhat behind lean but some toward the desired felling area but it has to be a stout winch and heavy truck or equipment to do so. the winch then pulls and swings as you quickly take up slack when it starts falling. I have adopted many different ways that work in your case being codomanent stem it is quite possibly better pieced down. How high off the ground would you have to be to cut this tree?



Thanks I have a pretty good idea what you are saying. I dont think my father has enough gear to employ that idea, but maybe a variation of it. I can definitely see the merits though. Its rare that I am trying to dodge a house, in most cases its trying to not get them hung up in another tree. As for the tree I mentioned earlier, I would not have to make a cut higher then chest level. It is still up in the air as to a plan of attack on that one. Mostly I am trying to see what is used to manipulate trees in general, so that I have a better mental picture before I go to any given tree.


----------



## Brian13 (Dec 12, 2010)

joesawer said:


> Trees are made of fiber.
> Block face bends the fiber over a longer distance than does a face that bends the fiber over a short point.
> A straight block face puts two round corners in contact when it closes and can make some very exciting things happen.
> A snipe gives a flat surface something to close on. It also helps the butt slip down to the ground and reduces fiber pull.
> ...





FSburt said:


> joesawer said:
> 
> 
> > Trees are made of fiber.
> ...





hammerlogging said:


> Thats where the siswheel starts to come in to play, it keeps the uphill side of the hinge active once the regular face closes- we're talking swinging trees sidehill here right?




This is what I am talking about!! Building off of everybodys experience. The more detail and the more descriptive the better. What kind of tree are you going to be looking at when you are thinking about a block face? Can the snipe be offset for directing the tree? What does the siswheel look like or how is it accomplished, and why would you add it?


----------



## Brian13 (Dec 12, 2010)

056 kid said:


> Been there, done that,
> 
> YOU ever fall any red oak of this caliber? Getting fired is a bull #### excuse dude. .
> 
> ...



Nice trees, got out of Florida, for Thanksgiving and got to see some red oak in Georgia. Real nice change from live oak. Wish I had brought a bigger saw with me, could have had a real blast up there with some of the trees there.


----------



## stihl 440 (Dec 12, 2010)

056 kid said:


> Been there, done that,
> 
> YOU ever fall any red oak of this caliber? Getting fired is a bull #### excuse dude. .
> 
> ...



Yes i have....what about a 7ft willow...or a 6' white oak?....5' 11" poplar?.....i cut 5' across and smaller pretty regularly...i like big trees...we get alot of little jobs with big S##T on them because people want it cut because of the stand's tree sizes...You can say BS all you want...doesnt make me believe you...you're prolly just a young lil' choker chaser...lmao...prolly took a picture of the trees and saw just because the dude that DID cut it walked away....a springboard hole?...lmfao...thats a big giant sequoia ya got there...hahaha...well im done saying what i know....so whatever you say after this is pointless and wont be recognized...shut your mouth..open your eyes and ears and have a nice day and go cut some trees...the ignorance in your posts is very noticable....have a nice day...


----------



## hammerlogging (Dec 12, 2010)

I don't know dude seems like if you were cutting timber like that, one tree drags, you'd be able to get a little ahead of the skidder and have time for a picture......


----------



## slowp (Dec 12, 2010)

Today I went in to work. We were afraid of a flood. To keep awake, we were cleaning up and cutting some trees out of roads. I thought I'd get a picture taken whilst bucking out a little hemlock, that was probably going to split. Alas, I left the camera in my pickup in the parking lot. The little hemlock behaved and went flat gracefully. 

Maybe cameras get forgotten?


----------



## 056 kid (Dec 12, 2010)

stihl 440 said:


> Yes i have....what about a 7ft willow...or a 6' white oak?....5' 11" poplar?.....i cut 5' across and smaller pretty regularly...i like big trees...we get alot of little jobs with big S##T on them because people want it cut because of the stand's tree sizes...You can say BS all you want...doesnt make me believe you...you're prolly just a young lil' choker chaser...lmao...prolly took a picture of the trees and saw just because the dude that DID cut it walked away....a springboard hole?...lmfao...thats a big giant sequoia ya got there...hahaha...well im done saying what i know....so whatever you say after this is pointless and wont be recognized...shut your mouth..open your eyes and ears and have a nice day and go cut some trees...the ignorance in your posts is very noticable....have a nice day...



Yea, sweet, awesome, cool, right on, hell yea

Funny how that same chainsaw is sitting in my garage right now. O yea! I stole it from the faller that ACTUALLY cut the tree. Or wait, maybe I bought it and toted it out there just to have a photo op. I dunno, you have got me second guessing myself now.

Put up some pics ya ####in:yoyo:. Or do ME a favor and, wait, hold on, yep, you know it, go ahead, and #### off!!

BTW Im sending my posts off to college here soon, gotta get them posts educated!!!


----------



## stihl 440 (Dec 12, 2010)

056 kid said:


> Yea, sweet, awesome, cool, right on, hell yea
> 
> Funny how that same chainsaw is sitting in my garage right now. O yea! I stole it from the faller that ACTUALLY cut the tree. Or wait, maybe I bought it and toted it out there just to have a photo op. I dunno, you have got me second guessing myself now.
> 
> ...



Your what hurts?....i can tell you have enough time to take pics...so you must f### off alot...lol....think about what you could be doing while your wasting time to taking pics?.......oh but you wanna grab the camera and J### off....oh well you cant teach anyone anything these days.....& if anyone doesnt believe me JUST BECAUSE i dont own a camera or take pics while im in the woods...thats your problem.....when i leave the woods for the day that means i have seen enough for one day....


----------



## stihl 440 (Dec 12, 2010)

hammerlogging said:


> I don't know dude seems like if you were cutting timber like that, one tree drags, you'd be able to get a little ahead of the skidder and have time for a picture......



I take pride in not wasting my boss's time and money.....i could be getting even more ahead by felling a few or limbing a few that are already down.


----------



## ropensaddle (Dec 12, 2010)

stihl 440 said:


> Your what hurts?....i can tell you have enough time to take pics...so you must f### off alot...lol....think about what you could be doing while your wasting time to taking pics?.......oh but you wanna grab the camera and J### off....oh well you cant teach anyone anything these days.....& if anyone doesnt believe me JUST BECAUSE i dont own a camera or take pics while im in the woods...thats your problem.....when i leave the woods for the day that means i have seen enough for one day....



Fall this burrrrrrrrrp


----------



## hammerlogging (Dec 12, 2010)

stihl 440 said:


> I take pride in not wasting my boss's time and money.....i could be getting even more ahead by felling a few or limbing a few that are already down.



I bet you could get real bonus points from your boss by.....

Listen bud, I don't give a damn about all your BS, lay off, chill, enjoy the banter, participate, smile, and be happy, we're all here because we love slammin the #### out of timber, or any of the variety of tasks surrounding the slamming of timber. I'd say most of us are pretty top caliber performers, considering we work it all day and still enjoy discussing it by night: committed to the industry. you don't have to worry about whether or not I have enough wood on the ground to be able to snap a picture 2 or 3 times a year cause I do.

So i egg you on cause you've been such an easy target. But I'll stop.


----------



## stihl 440 (Dec 12, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> Fall this burrrrrrrrrp



TIMBCO anyone?...lolololol lmao:jester:...helicopter?...lmao:chainsawguy::chainsawguy:


----------



## ropensaddle (Dec 12, 2010)

stihl 440 said:


> TIMBCO anyone?...lolololol lmao:jester:...helicopter?...lmao:chainsawguy::chainsawguy:



Nope just husky and rope!


----------



## ropensaddle (Dec 12, 2010)




----------



## lfnh (Dec 13, 2010)

Nice takedown, Rope.

How long start to finish ?


----------



## ropensaddle (Dec 13, 2010)

lfnh said:


> Nice takedown, Rope.
> 
> How long start to finish ?



100 degrees 98 humidity 1 new groundy 3 days if I remember right. Fast is not best in many areas.


----------



## FSburt (Dec 13, 2010)

100 degrees 98 humidity

So this is like 200 degrees.


----------



## ropensaddle (Dec 13, 2010)

FSburt said:


> 100 degrees 98 humidity
> 
> So this is like 200 degrees.



I think index was 117 it felt like 200:hmm3grin2orange: Rope gets lethargic then narcoleptic in those temps:monkey:


----------



## 056 kid (Dec 13, 2010)

stihl 440 said:


> Your what hurts?....i can tell you have enough time to take pics...so you must f### off alot...lol....think about what you could be doing while your wasting time to taking pics?.......oh but you wanna grab the camera and J### off....oh well you cant teach anyone anything these days.....& if anyone doesnt believe me JUST BECAUSE i dont own a camera or take pics while im in the woods...thats your problem.....when i leave the woods for the day that means i have seen enough for one day....




I have time to #### off because i get the ####ing timber on the ground buddy boy!!!

in good timber i have been known to put the saw away at lunch just so I can jump on a skidder and help get all the timber to the landing.

I DO WORK dude, dont ever question that:chainsawguy:

BTW, I use my cell phone and it talkes all of 5 seconds LOLOL.


----------



## brushfire (Dec 13, 2010)

stihl 440 said:


> I love it!!!...lmao this is great!!!!! lololololol...some kid wants me to teach him to cut!!.....hahahahahahahahah......sorry....the ignorance is sooooo funny though.......you have alot to learn young whipper snapper.......cockyness gets many upon many of people hurt......obviously by that statement you perhaps dont know it all?...like you once may have thaught?....if you dont learn something everyday in the woods....stay home!!!.....you can babble on more.......but it escalades the ignorance.....
> 
> if you have anything else to say you can PM me...i like to keep some 056 spam out of the threads...



He's a troll, just trying to get people angry. Hasn't contributed a thing to this thread. Click on the little red outlined triangle on the lower left side of the screen and report him...


----------



## joesawer (Dec 13, 2010)

stihl 440 said:


> Yes i have....what about a 7ft willow...or a 6' white oak?....5' 11" poplar?.....i cut 5' across and smaller pretty regularly...i like big trees...we get alot of little jobs with big S##T on them because people want it cut because of the stand's tree sizes...You can say BS all you want...doesnt make me believe you...you're prolly just a young lil' choker chaser...lmao...prolly took a picture of the trees and saw just because the dude that DID cut it walked away....a springboard hole?...lmfao...thats a big giant sequoia ya got there...hahaha...well im done saying what i know....so whatever you say after this is pointless and wont be recognized...shut your mouth..open your eyes and ears and have a nice day and go cut some trees...the ignorance in your posts is very noticable....have a nice day...





If you are competent at cutting big timber no one is going to say squat to you for snapping a few pics of it. I have cut timber all over the country and the boss has always been willing to even help facilitate taking pics of exceptional trees, even at my hourly rate.
Also you will understand that it is not productive to work at an unsustainable pace.
056 is young and cocky but he has made a lot of progress in the past couple of years, can you say the same for yourself?


----------



## RandyMac (Dec 13, 2010)

stihl 440 said:


> Yes i have....what about a 7ft willow...or a 6' white oak?....5' 11" poplar?.....i cut 5' across and smaller pretty regularly...i like big trees...we get alot of little jobs with big S##T on them because people want it cut because of the stand's tree sizes...You can say BS all you want...doesnt make me believe you...you're prolly just a young lil' choker chaser...lmao...prolly took a picture of the trees and saw just because the dude that DID cut it walked away....a springboard hole?...lmfao...thats a big giant sequoia ya got there...hahaha...well im done saying what i know....so whatever you say after this is pointless and wont be recognized...shut your mouth..open your eyes and ears and have a nice day and go cut some trees...the ignorance in your posts is very noticable....have a nice day...



Punk needs a hot steaming cup of shut the #### up.


----------



## joesawer (Dec 13, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> Fall this burrrrrrrrrp






Hmmm I just wonder if I could get it to jump past the edge of the porch.
I bet that if i bent a stout little white oak over and tied it to the butt and jump cut it it would clear!


----------



## ropensaddle (Dec 13, 2010)

joesawer said:


> Hmmm I just wonder if I could get it to jump past the edge of the porch.
> I bet that if i bent a stout little white oak over and tied it to the butt and jump cut it it would clear!



Lmfao sure of the house lol but this view gives you a better idea of the jobs complexity but alas ropes done done it!









Note: 12500 volts


----------



## joesawer (Dec 13, 2010)

Good job I have climbed a few with structures built around them. One was dead and had two sky lights under it I was a bit nervous about the little debris falling of the pieces as we roped them out.
Fortunately there was another tree beside the house to rope chunks out on. We put a tag line on them and let them ease over and drop between the houses.
Search Joe Woods picture post for the size an scale of trees we were doing on a regular basis and most of them where dead.


----------



## stihl 440 (Dec 13, 2010)

RandyMac said:


> Punk needs a hot steaming cup of shut the #### up.



Who?


----------



## ropensaddle (Dec 13, 2010)

stihl 440 said:


> Who?



Who Who Who Spotted owl crossing


----------



## 056 kid (Dec 13, 2010)

You done dug yourself into a hole now main. Better listen to Randy, folks like him are the ones you gotta watch out for!!


----------



## RandyMac (Dec 13, 2010)

It's ok, I have a place where he can't be a dildo, we need not put up with such, details soon.


----------



## sawinredneck (Dec 13, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> Who Who Who Spotted owl crossing



Little Cindy Lou Who, from Whosvile in Whosland.


----------



## ropensaddle (Dec 13, 2010)

joesawer said:


> Good job I have climbed a few with structures built around them. One was dead and had two sky lights under it I was a bit nervous about the little debris falling of the pieces as we roped them out.
> Fortunately there was another tree beside the house to rope chunks out on. We put a tag line on them and let them ease over and drop between the houses.
> Search Joe Woods picture post for the size an scale of trees we were doing on a regular basis and most of them where dead.



I tried Joe I could not find it! I expect you dealt with some doozies though.


----------



## chrisc10 (Dec 13, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> I have a question about putting a tree to the ground where you want it, with heavy side lean. I have done a fair bit of reading with techniques mentioned in brief detail, but not enough for me to understand the process. Most of what I get to cut are undesirable trees that are growing anyway but straight, and thus far they usually end up going with the lean. I know it takes more than reading, I am just looking for a good basis to start with. What kind of techniques or combo of techniques are used to get a tree to fall or swing 90* to its lean?
> 
> And for a block face cut.... I know it the hinge wood holds longer, but when would it be practical for use.
> 
> Thanks guys, trying to learn and not be annoying at the same time.



Here are my words of advice. This may have already been said but i dont have the time to read 11 pages of "do it this way" or "DONT TOUCH IT!". Get a friend who is comfortable in the woods to come take a look at it and see what he thinks. for somthing like this i would use a block and tackle to try and give it some pull in the direction you want it to fall, 90 degree face about 80 percent of the DBH of tree, bore cut and a wedge or two then cut your back strap. this is not me giving you a CLP cert. card or anything, just saying what I would do from what I understand of the situation, and it could easily change if I saw the tree. consider having an arborist come take a gander


----------



## bitzer (Dec 13, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> This is what I am talking about!! Building off of everybodys experience. The more detail and the more descriptive the better. What kind of tree are you going to be looking at when you are thinking about a block face? Can the snipe be offset for directing the tree? What does the siswheel look like or how is it accomplished, and why would you add it?




Brian the problem is that not too many guys are keen on giving advice that could potentially come back to haunt them in one way or another. But like Gologit once said, usually these types of questions are from guys that have already made up their mind and are just looking for some sort of group validation. You can do your homework all day, read, look at pics and movies, think about mechanics of the wood, use of more equip (other than saw), but at the end of the day its you and the tree. The wood may or may not be sound, wind, etc, lots of variables. That being said here is a good view of a siswheel. Hard to really see the action, but you can see the face alright. I'm not all about promotion of this guy's clips either, hes just got some good stuff and seems pretty down to earth in his manner of talk.


----------



## chrisc10 (Dec 13, 2010)

bitzercreek1 said:


> Brian the problem is that not too many guys are keen on giving advice that could potentially come back to haunt them in one way or another. But like Gologit once said, usually these types of questions are from guys that have already made up their mind and are just looking for some sort of group validation. You can do your homework all day, read, look at pics and movies, think about mechanics of the wood, use of more equip (other than saw), but at the end of the day its you and the tree. The wood may or may not be sound, wind, etc, lots of variables. That being said here is a good view of a siswheel. Hard to really see the action, but you can see the face alright. I'm not all about promotion of this guy's clips either, hes just got some good stuff and seems pretty down to earth in his manner of talk.



good post, interesting


----------



## Brian13 (Dec 13, 2010)

bitzercreek1 said:


> Brian the problem is that not too many guys are keen on giving advice that could potentially come back to haunt them in one way or another. But like Gologit once said, usually these types of questions are from guys that have already made up their mind and are just looking for some sort of group validation. You can do your homework all day, read, look at pics and movies, think about mechanics of the wood, use of more equip (other than saw), but at the end of the day its you and the tree. The wood may or may not be sound, wind, etc, lots of variables. That being said here is a good view of a siswheel. Hard to really see the action, but you can see the face alright. I'm not all about promotion of this guy's clips either, hes just got some good stuff and seems pretty down to earth in his manner of talk.
> ]



Thanks for posting the video. I am not looking for validation!! I truly enjoy working on and operating saws. I look forward to every chance I get to use them. All I am trying to accomplish is to learn enough to not be that moron on youtube. I know it takes more than reading and looking at pictures. But I have to start somewhere. Its all good, I figured I would have better luck here getting a productive discussion, instead of the chainsaw forum. Oh well.


----------



## bitzer (Dec 13, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> Thanks for posting the video. I am not looking for validation!! I truly enjoy working on and operating saws. I look forward to every chance I get to use them. All I am trying to accomplish is to learn enough to not be that moron on youtube. I know it takes more than reading and looking at pictures. But I have to start somewhere. Its all good, I figured I would have better luck here getting a productive discussion, instead of the chainsaw forum. Oh well.



Thats not what I meant by validation. Good discussions are had on this forum. Better than the saw forum. Get some pics up of said tree. A good discusion can yet be had now that most of the crap should have blown by. Read ALL 120 some pages of the falling pics thread. Then come back with some more questions. That will keep you busy.


----------



## stihl 440 (Dec 13, 2010)

056 kid said:


> You done dug yourself into a hole now main. Better listen to Randy, folks like him are the ones you gotta watch out for!!



Would you like to explain how i dug MYself into a hole?....


----------



## stihl 440 (Dec 13, 2010)

RandyMac said:


> It's ok, I have a place where he can't be a dildo, we need not put up with such, details soon.



How am i being the dildo?.....every one of my posts where on topic to some extent...


----------



## 056 kid (Dec 13, 2010)

stihl 440 said:


> Would you like to explain how i dug MYself into a hole?....



Because maybe everyone thinks you are a poser I think. . . .


----------



## stihl 440 (Dec 13, 2010)

056 kid said:


> Because maybe everyone thinks you are a poser I think. . . .



Why would they even think im a poser?.....i sure dont have to impress anybody...i just tell what i know and have expirenced......you can take my statement as a opinion or a fact...i work in the industry and give my advice..thats it.......either way im just trying to help the guy out...WE ARE GETTING WAAAAAAY OFF TOPIC ANYWAY...i have said this numerous times....if what you are going to say has nothing to do with the origional post....please pm me....I WILL respond.....


----------



## Brian13 (Dec 14, 2010)

bitzercreek1 said:


> Thats not what I meant by validation. Good discussions are had on this forum. Better than the saw forum. Get some pics up of said tree. A good discusion can yet be had now that most of the crap should have blown by. Read ALL 120 some pages of the falling pics thread. Then come back with some more questions. That will keep you busy.



The way I interpreted it was, when these questions are asked people already have a game plan in mind and are just looking for someone to say yep that how I would do it. I do have a tree to cut a some point that poses some problems I have not had to deal with yet. However I was not wanting to start a this is how I would do it thread. From the time you first see a tree until the time you start the saw up, you have made a decision on how you are going to cut that particular tree down based on as many of the variables you can see. Knowing what you want the tree to do, and then deciding what is going to work best is a process based on knowledge and experience. That is what I am trying to get started. Being able to cut a blockface, or siswheel, or humbolt, or running lines to hold the tree does absolutely no good if you dont know when to apply them or what there limitations are. And this is just a place for me to start, I in no way think after reading a couple of pages on technique I will be a master timber faller, just a little better educated. I have read all 120 pages of the Falling Pics thread, thats were I got some of my questions from.


----------



## bitzer (Dec 14, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> The way I interpreted it was, when these questions are asked people already have a game plan in mind and are just looking for someone to say yep that how I would do it. I do have a tree to cut a some point that poses some problems I have not had to deal with yet. However I was not wanting to start a this is how I would do it thread. From the time you first see a tree until the time you start the saw up, you have made a decision on how you are going to cut that particular tree down based on as many of the variables you can see. Knowing what you want the tree to do, and then deciding what is going to work best is a process based on knowledge and experience. That is what I am trying to get started. Being able to cut a blockface, or siswheel, or humbolt, or running lines to hold the tree does absolutely no good if you dont know when to apply them or what there limitations are. And this is just a place for me to start, I in no way think after reading a couple of pages on technique I will be a master timber faller, just a little better educated. I have read all 120 pages of the Falling Pics thread, thats were I got some of my questions from.



You really only have two options for real world experience then. Packing gas for a good pro faller or trial and error. I learned with the second one. You've already got more info than I ever had when I started out. Time on the saw is what you need and a good pair of legs knowing when to move quickly. Lots of walking around the tree. Going through the variables. If I do this, this will happen. Mis-matched cuts will cause this to happen. I can only move a tree this much by doing this. Crown weight, lean, rot, limb-locked trees, etc. There is really no way to explain it sitting in a desk chair. Different types of wood move differently too. I'm not just talking soft and hard here. Each species moves/holds differently as far as I'm concerned and that even changes up here when it gets cold. Its really just time and awareness. Look at your stump and where the tree ended up. If it didn't work go through the scenario of what you could have done differently. 

I hung a 30' Red Oak spar into a smaller Oak when I was in deer camp in Northern WI back in Nov. It should have been very routine. The wind was in my face 20 to 30 and it was a pretty tight window, but it should have been no problem. Down hill. Tree was more rotten than it looked and the wood snapped off pre-maturely. Bounced off the outside upright of the next oak and hunkered down real nice between the uprights. It was either piece it down or take them both. Being short of time I took them both. The second one ended up being hollow, but it all came down like a ton of #### just the way I wanted it too. I agonized over the "what if" for days, because I had to take that second tree on my uncle's property. The second tree ended up being a piece of #### too, but if it had been a decent tree I would have really been pissed. 

Look up a lot too. Enough time running a saw and you will figure it out.


----------



## joesawer (Dec 14, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> I tried Joe I could not find it! I expect you dealt with some doozies though.





Here it is
http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=60669&highlight=

I hope you and your family are doing well.
Best wishes.


----------



## forestryworks (Dec 21, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> Hmmm So if I am a feller, felling trees in tight places properly rigged but started falling down the cliff when loose rock become dislodged I would be a faller,feller,and fellow falling right



lol, fell is past tense, so you're either falling or you ain't :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## ropensaddle (Dec 21, 2010)

joesawer said:


> Here it is
> http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=60669&highlight=
> 
> I hope you and your family are doing well.
> Best wishes.


Wow that ant up there you lol. I done one near that height but not quite long way to the top there for sure and big wood too


forestryworks said:


> lol, fell is past tense, so you're either falling or you ain't :hmm3grin2orange:


Felling is the practice of dropping trees in many books I have read feller. I have only herd faller from you west coast mangs mang. But I would think we are all pretty good fellers and fallers agree:monkey:


----------



## forestryworks (Dec 21, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> Felling is the practice of dropping trees in many books I have read feller. I have only herd faller from you west coast mangs mang. But I would think we are all pretty good fellers and fallers agree:monkey:



Lol, Rope, don't make me laugh into my beer. You almost went on a tongue twister there.


----------



## ropensaddle (Dec 21, 2010)

forestryworks said:


> Lol, Rope, don't make me laugh into my beer. You almost went on a tongue twister there.



That would be a rodger, rodger:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Cedarkerf (Dec 21, 2010)

A feller is a big tracked machine with an articulated cab and boom:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## ropensaddle (Dec 21, 2010)

:monkey:


Felling
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
This article is about felling trees. For other uses, see Felling (disambiguation).

Felling is the process of downing individual trees, an element of the task of logging.
Contents
[hide]

* 1 Methods
o 1.1 Hand felling
o 1.2 Feller buncher
* 2 See also

[edit] Methods
[edit] Hand felling

In hand felling, an axe, saw, or chainsaw is used to drop a tree, followed up by limbing, bucking, and in traditional applications hewing. In the modern commercial logging industry, felling is typically followed by limbing and skidding.


----------



## Gypo Logger (Dec 21, 2010)

To the OP, I don't think there's any other kind of falling than directional falling, except maybe when clearcutting.
Most trees are already commited to their natural lay either by light, prevailing winds or other circumstances, so you just let them loose knowing these variables. You just can't be looking up enough. Once accomplished you can really slide stems thru other ones, because it saves alot of work and is safer if you have a good eye for square. Anybody can make a mistake, it's just a matter of knowing how to get out of it fast and safe.
John


----------



## stihl 440 (Dec 21, 2010)

Yukonsawman said:


> To the OP, I don't think there's any other kind of falling than directional falling, except maybe when clearcutting.
> Most trees are already commited to their natural lay either by light, prevailing winds or other circumstances, so you just let them loose knowing these variables. You just can't be looking up enough. Once accomplished you can really slide stems thru other ones, because it saves alot of work and is safer if you have a good eye for square. Anybody can make a mistake, it's just a matter of knowing how to get out of it fast and safe.
> John



What its all about right there john.....right on!!!!


----------



## Burvol (Dec 21, 2010)

Ah ha.


----------



## RandyMac (Dec 21, 2010)

John's insight is on it.


----------



## forestryworks (Dec 21, 2010)

Yukonsawman said:


> To the OP, I don't think there's any other kind of falling than directional falling, except maybe when clearcutting.
> Most trees are already commited to their natural lay either by light, prevailing winds or other circumstances, so you just let them loose knowing these variables. *You just can't be looking up enough.* Once accomplished you can really slide stems thru other ones, because it saves alot of work and is safer if you have a good eye for square. Anybody can make a mistake, it's just a matter of knowing how to get out of it fast and safe.
> John



Yes, well said. Especially the bold section.


----------



## Burvol (Dec 21, 2010)

I just cringe when thinking of a hell west and crooked, jack-straw clear cut. That's all, but it is good info.


----------



## RandyMac (Dec 21, 2010)

Jackstraw clearcuts, I know those.


----------



## slowp (Dec 21, 2010)

RandyMac said:


> Jackstraw clearcuts, I know those.



They are called, "Helicopter Units." :biggrinbounce2:


----------



## Brian13 (Dec 21, 2010)

Still been working at it, think I have more theory down than technique LOL. Have a long way to go to be fluid enough to make the cuts smoothly without it looking labored. The one thing I do have to work on is looking up. So busy looking at the cut trying not to screw it up, I forget to look up.


----------



## joesawer (Dec 22, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> Wow that ant up there you lol. I done one near that height but not quite long way to the top there for sure and big wood too
> 
> Felling is the practice of dropping trees in many books I have read feller. I have only herd faller from you west coast mangs mang. But I would think we are all pretty good fellers and fallers agree:monkey:





No that is not me in any of those pictures, but my old skidder is in them.
I climbed one tree in Blue Jay Ca that loaded four trucks.


----------



## Burvol (Dec 23, 2010)

RandyMac said:


> Jackstraw clearcuts, I know those.



Called, "paid by the MBF" LOL

Been to a few really bad blow down units where there is little you can do but just let the really hard leaners half uprooted, go. Yes trick stump stuff and whatever, it don't matter. Mine field, jack straw, blown up wood everywhere, mother nature F'd it up good. Don't get hurt, just have fun and enjoy watching the limits of what wood can do/take lol. Had my 660 and a 390 taken out of my hands, over my head in these type of units. My buddy had a 460 launched 100 ft. plus on the coast. 4 length wound up wood. Mang!


----------



## FSburt (Dec 23, 2010)

Don't get hurt, just have fun and enjoy watching the limits of what wood can do/take lol.

Hey Burvol I think that thought captures alot about what our new fallers need to experience for them to help understand what this job is about. Wood strength and the natural limits of each species put that slide show into your memory. I am a firm believer in challenging your abilities when you have the opportunity. Most of our fallers treat all species of trees the same and few really know how different species wood strength either helps or hinders them they just put in a undercut and backcut and fall it with the lean 90% of the time. Allot of cutters very few fallers.


----------



## madhatte (Dec 23, 2010)

Blowdown is tricky stuff. Most of my near-misses have been while clearing roads of blowdown. I learn something new every time, and every time I find a new way to screw things up. Ah, well, at least I don't make the same mistakes twice. Someday I'll know my ass from a hole in the ground!


----------



## slowp (Dec 23, 2010)

Blowdown is like a game of Jenga, only a bit messier and you want it to come down, but under control. 

I have to study it a bit before cutting-- Kick it, wiggle it, and then proceed with caution. Sometimes walk away.


----------



## madhatte (Dec 23, 2010)

slowp said:


> I have to study it a bit before cutting-- Kick it, wiggle it, and then proceed with caution. Sometimes walk away.



Exactly. The study time is critical.


----------



## young bucker (Jan 12, 2011)

just remember, a tree isnt racist it will take you out no matter the skin you wear, they make falling saws everyday.its good to learn from a vetren and who has the skill of hand for the work, i see lots of wierd looking stumps out there.


----------



## Yoopermike (Jan 12, 2011)

young bucker said:


> i see lots of wierd looking stumps out there.


 
Just like the onse a tree service is doing on some county roads by where I live they have a slash cut towards the road but there all 15'-20' in the air, why not just cut em flush with the ground? there are quite a few of em and there a huge eyesore!.. im NOT an arborist but I know what looks un appealing to the eye!


----------



## 2dogs (Jan 12, 2011)

Yoopermike said:


> Just like the onse a tree service is doing on some county roads by where I live they have a slash cut towards the road but there all 15'-20' in the air, why not just cut em flush with the ground? there are quite a few of em and there a huge eyesore!.. im NOT an arborist but I know what looks un appealing to the eye!


 
This is often done where the butts have value. The tops are cut and chipped then the butts are cut separately and hauled to a mill. Could be what is happening there.


----------



## Yoopermike (Jan 12, 2011)

2dogs said:


> This is often done where the butts have value. The tops are cut and chipped then the butts are cut separately and hauled to a mill. Could be what is happening there.


 
most are pine trees, coffee can size and smaller.


----------



## hammerlogging (Jan 12, 2011)

Did you mean inches, not feet? could be for later removal.


----------



## Yoopermike (Jan 12, 2011)

hammerlogging said:


> Did you mean inches, not feet? could be for later removal.


 
nope, feet.. If I get a chance I will take a picture.


----------



## FanOFatherNash (Apr 2, 2011)

bitzer said:


> Whenever you are ready to reveal such stunning secrets please let me know, Houdini. I'd really like to see some stuff thats more badass than the best guys on here. You might be able to revolutionize an entire industry. You teach any young roust-abouts today?


 
ya what he said, no i am curious to this top secret squirrel / ninja techniques.


----------



## FanOFatherNash (Apr 2, 2011)

ropensaddle said:


> Excuse my art lol


 
I laughed alot


----------



## FanOFatherNash (Apr 2, 2011)

stihl 440 said:


> Thats you...this is me....its a level of respect that i intend to keep....he sure as he11 didnt go and say ok i know this, this, this, this, this, this, and this....no...huh uh...that didnt happen....but i started to notice the more i cut with him and the skidders where gone.....he'd stop me once in awhile and say here let me show you somethin'....he'd show me a trick here...and there...here....and there....im not sure if he taught me everything he knows....but i noticed the more i just kept my mouth shut and eyes and ears open..the more he would show.


 
lol its not like its a hot stock tip, he cant paten it and make money


----------



## RandyMac (Apr 2, 2011)

FanOFatherNash said:


> lol its not like its a hot stock tip, he cant paten it and make money


 
No he can't get a patent, if you are a butthead, he can make sure you don't fall timber.


----------



## Spotted Owl (Apr 3, 2011)

slowp said:


> Sometimes walk away.


 
I wish more guys would do this rather than try and bull their way through and really screw things up, there have been some good traps set buy guys going on and not knowing what or how, most of the time those guys don't even know they are setting a trap most of the time on them selves. Things can be bad enough at times but when a new headstrong guy gets into it, it can and does turn sour fast. I wish more people would admit their limits and walk or ask for help. They just might learn something to make them a better saw driver and so might the person doing the teaching.



Owl


----------



## RandyMac (Apr 3, 2011)

sometimes it takes awhile to know what you don't know how to do.


----------



## Sagetown (Apr 3, 2011)

About the time I think I know what I'm doing, I prove to myself otherwise. Good sized Red Oak needed to fall north last week, with all limbs on west side. Face cut was a little off, but not bad. Left a good pie shaped wedge on the east side on the back cut. Slowly on its way down the wedge couldn't hold and snapped suddenly . The tree fell right on my west fence, driving a steel post 2' into the ground. :msp_w00t: Had to get my tractor to pull up the post.


----------



## 056 kid (Apr 3, 2011)

the tree probably would have held if you had kept a strip instead of made a pie shape, the farthest wood from the face has tremendous pull on it and is gonna give, imo as soon as wood starts to pull, it all breaks loose and you lost your hinge. The pie shape has its place, heavy head leaners, & the side band swarp:msp_tongue:. but in a swing situation with an unobstructed face, a strip is preferred.


----------



## Gologit (Apr 3, 2011)

RandyMac said:


> sometimes it takes awhile to know what you don't know how to do.


 
True. But when you find out what it is that you don't really know how to do it might already be too late.

Some of these guys must be on real good terms with their guardian angel. Or just damn lucky.


----------



## madhatte (Apr 3, 2011)

Ain't that the truth. You should see some of the stumps the firewood thieves leave. I can't believe they haven't killed themselves yet.


----------



## bitzer (Apr 4, 2011)

056 kid said:


> the tree probably would have held if you had kept a strip instead of made a pie shape, the farthest wood from the face has tremendous pull on it and is gonna give, imo as soon as wood starts to pull, it all breaks loose and you lost your hinge. The pie shape has its place, heavy head leaners, & the side band swarp:msp_tongue:. but in a swing situation with an unobstructed face, a strip is preferred.


 
Sounds like he left mostly tension wood. Gotta keep some compression. Just about figuring how much it will move.


----------



## bitzer (Apr 4, 2011)

madhatte said:


> Ain't that the truth. You should see some of the stumps the firewood thieves leave. I can't believe they haven't killed themselves yet.


 
Eh, they only cut a few a year. 

I will still never understand the sloping back cut. Its rare that I see a decent flat stump and then I gotta wonder who made it.


----------



## RandyMac (Apr 4, 2011)

Gologit said:


> True. But when you find out what it is that you don't really know how to do it might already be too late.
> 
> Some of these guys must be on real good terms with their guardian angel. Or just damn lucky.


 
That is why there are old guys, to moderate youthful excess.

On the subject of youthful excess, I hope Burvol is doing well.


----------



## John Ellison (Apr 4, 2011)

bitzer said:


> Eh, they only cut a few a year.
> 
> I will still never understand the sloping back cut. Its rare that I see a decent flat stump and then I gotta wonder who made it.


 
The guy that was thinking..... Darn, I really screwed up on that one. Can't believe its almost level. I probably should saw it off before somebody sees it.


----------



## madhatte (Apr 4, 2011)

That would explain a LOT.


----------



## ropensaddle (Apr 5, 2011)

These stumps were cut by power company contractors whose employee's were from another country south of Texas

Nice lmfao















Here is where the creamed the fence and barely missed the house :jawdrop:







Next day they hit a house and brought lines down on roof


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC (Apr 5, 2011)

*Falling*

Well if need to learn there is feller on the youtube site that shows some of the techniques on video. I think he goes by dangercat.:confused 

Me it would take meez a month to peck on the keep board to describe my shirt tail falling technique.


----------



## 056 kid (Apr 5, 2011)

RandyMac said:


> That is why there are old guys, to moderate youthful excess.
> 
> On the subject of youthful excess, I hope Burvol is doing well.


 
Me too, hes been quiet here lately.


----------



## Samlock (Apr 5, 2011)

ropensaddle said:


> These stumps were cut by power company contractors whose employee's were from another country south of Texas
> 
> Nice lmfao
> 
> ...



I've seen a lot of stumps like that before. I used to herd a flock of the fallers from abroad. And a power company contract it was too! The most vivid (and frighting) period of my life this far.

Our neighboring country happens to be too quite a bit, let's say, unfortunate, economically. The problem is, workers coming from there are not hired because they are good, but because they are cheap. And you'll never get the best workers that way. You'll get mostly leftovers, those who didn't make it back home. The best do have jobs at home and they have no intention to go anywhere. I'm sorry to tell you that's a fact.


----------



## Samlock (Apr 5, 2011)

And now, as I've just said that, I remember I've bloody chased better wages abroad myself! Oops. Well, I'm not going to edit that anyway...


----------



## 2dogs (Apr 5, 2011)

Samlock said:


> I've seen a lot of stumps like that before. I used to herd a flock of the fallers from abroad. And a power company contract it was too! The most vivid (and frighting) period of my life this far.
> 
> Our neighboring country happens to be too quite a bit, let's say, unfortunate, economically. The problem is, workers coming from there are not hired because they are good, but because they are cheap. And you'll never get the best workers that way. You'll get mostly leftovers, those who didn't make it back home. The best do have jobs at home and they have no intention to go anywhere. I'm sorry to tell you that's a fact.


 
Dude have you relocated to California?


----------



## Gologit (Apr 5, 2011)

2dogs said:


> Dude have you relocated to California?


 
Sure sounds like it to me.  And...lose the "dude" thing. We really need to get you out of Santa Cruz for a while.


----------



## ropensaddle (Apr 5, 2011)

Samlock said:


> And now, as I've just said that, I remember I've bloody chased better wages abroad myself! Oops. Well, I'm not going to edit that anyway...


 
Why even consider editing I am sure you did the legal process.


----------



## Gologit (Apr 5, 2011)

ropensaddle said:


> Why even consider editing I am sure you did the legal process.


 
He must have. If you try to wade across a river in the dark in his part of the world you'd freeze your cojones off. :msp_wink:


----------



## Samlock (Apr 7, 2011)

Gologit said:


> He must have. If you try to wade across a river in the dark in his part of the world you'd freeze your cojones off. :msp_wink:



Right. This is no California or Texas either. No illegal trespassing here across the borders. If you are entering from the poor side, you should hike across 50-80 miles of wilderness: forests, swamps, lakes, rivers, mosquitos... The very few to make it through are so exhausted when they finally reach some populated area, they are more than willing to give themselves up.

Anyway, what I tried to say was: I give my sympathy for those people who leave their homes for money. I have done that too after all. Legally, of course, no need to play hide and seek with the border patrols inside the European Union. What would you do yourself? No money, no job, no education/skills, no hope. Would you just wait home and die? But those greedy pigs who take advantage of cheap workers, I don't tolerate at all.

Although I'm a greedy pig myself, to be honest.


----------



## Gologit (Apr 7, 2011)

Good post. I think that if I had a family to feed and no other options available that a border wouldn't mean much to me.


----------



## madhatte (Apr 7, 2011)

Gaw Dayum. I think we all just hit the nail on the head: "I get why they'd do it, I just wish they wouldn't do it so blatantly". 

I mean, really: the US is a country of immigrants. Even the "natives" came here from somewhere else, only earlier. The current "immigration" problem, unlike those of the past, is that the offending persons are sneaking across a porous border, not an otherwise-intractable ocean. This makes enforcement of Immigration Law nearly impossible. It's not like we don't "like" Mexico -- hell, Cinco De Mayo is as good an excuse to party as any other -- it's just that it isn't fair for Joe Taxpayer to be footing the bill for education and healthcare for transient laborers who won't be here next spring. There's more to it, of course, and I'd as soon not get into it here, but that's the gist of it. 

I work every spring with mostly-Mexican planting crews and they work their asses off. They are the same guys every year, and I know 'em by name, and we joke and shake hands when the job is done. I'm always happy to see them because I know the job will be done right and quickly. In my hometown, a handful of Mexican immigrant families have put down roots and bought businesses and joined the Chamber of Commerce -- how can I not respect the Horatio Alger ideal of "Work Hard, Make Something Of Yourself" that these people embody? 

As always, it's a Rotten Few that make things bad for Everybody Else.


----------



## paccity (Apr 7, 2011)

madhatte said:


> Gaw Dayum. I think we all just hit the nail on the head: "I get why they'd do it, I just wish they wouldn't do it so blatantly".
> 
> I mean, really: the US is a country of immigrants. Even the "natives" came here from somewhere else, only earlier. The current "immigration" problem, unlike those of the past, is that the offending persons are sneaking across a porous border, not an otherwise-intractable ocean. This makes enforcement of Immigration Law nearly impossible. It's not like we don't "like" Mexico -- hell, Cinco De Mayo is as good an excuse to party as any other -- it's just that it isn't fair for Joe Taxpayer to be footing the bill for education and healthcare for transient laborers who won't be here next spring. There's more to it, of course, and I'd as soon not get into it here, but that's the gist of it.
> 
> ...


----------



## ropensaddle (Apr 8, 2011)

paccity said:


> madhatte said:
> 
> 
> > Gaw Dayum. I think we all just hit the nail on the head: "I get why they'd do it, I just wish they wouldn't do it so blatantly".
> ...


----------



## Samlock (Apr 8, 2011)

madhatte said:


> I work every spring with mostly-Mexican planting crews and they work their asses off. They are the same guys every year, and I know 'em by name, and we joke and shake hands when the job is done. I'm always happy to see them because I know the job will be done right and quickly.


 
Planting is here mostly done by foreigners too. Russians, Ukrainians, Polish, Romanians. I have even heard about a planting crew from Thailand. Well, I have contracted to do planting myself as usual. Call me Mexican, if you like. I'll shoot 25-30 000 seedlings into the earth this spring. Three weeks job. Most people think the pay you get out of planting sucks. A pro is a pro in planting as well. I make just as much money doing that job as I was doing logging or tree service. But no money spent on gas or lubricants or chains! The dullest job I have ever done it is, but it's a lot lighter work than logging. And I have downloaded a few good novels in my MP3-player. A kind of meditation. Plus, that's the only occasion I really get to see some bears. They're hungry in the springtime and they get used to a single planter wondering around an open field. They just keep digging roots and old stumps while I'm doing my job. We mind our own business, bears and me.


----------



## Gologit (Apr 8, 2011)

Samlock said:


> Planting is here mostly done by foreigners too. Russians, Ukrainians, Polish, Romanians. I have even heard about a planting crew from Thailand. Well, I have contracted to do planting myself as usual. Call me Mexican, if you like. I'll shoot 25-30 000 seedlings into the earth this spring. Three weeks job. Most people think the pay you get out of planting sucks. A pro is a pro in planting as well. I make just as much money doing that job as I was doing logging or tree service. But no money spent on gas or lubricants or chains! The dullest job I have ever done it is, but it's a lot lighter work than logging. And I have downloaded a few good novels in my MP3-player. A kind of meditation. Plus, that's the only occasion I really get to see some bears. They're hungry in the springtime and they get used to a single planter wondering around an open field. They just keep digging roots and old stumps while I'm doing my job. We mind our own business, bears and me.


 
Yup...we don't always get to do our favorite job. The guys that can do a variety of things, and do them well, can make a good living in this business. I don't plant trees but I do about everything else. 

Watch out for those bears. They might decide to make a snack out of the tree planter.


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC (Apr 8, 2011)

*Falling and work*

The best kinda faller is one who can always be open to a new idea. The faller will use bits and pieces of info he sees and watches.

:smile2:

Me I watch alot of utube vids. Got 20 years with no major accidents and am still learning every time I fall a tree. Had one banana tree with 48" DBH 220 foot of high Ponderosa pine leaning towards my dads house,high cabled it to counter balance the beast, still managed to tickle the power line. That was caused by the rotten top breaking free 80 foot up. Yes I did run like the wind. Learned not to trust dead trees :hmm3grin2orange: I am a trained hazard faller and I still hate rotten trees.


----------



## Samlock (Apr 9, 2011)

Gologit said:


> Watch out for those bears. They might decide to make a snack out of the tree planter.



Last spring I spent 10 days planting a single field. A mother bear with her second year puppy kept me company. I kept looking over my shoulder then, because I didn't want to walk in between those two. The planting field was just 7 miles from the very center of our town... Bears live here among the people. You just never get to see them in the woods. They don't see us as the walking snacks. They are scared to death for us, but they don't like surprises. All you have to do is to make sure they know where you are.


----------



## ropensaddle (Apr 9, 2011)

Samlock said:


> Last spring I spent 10 days planting a single field. A mother bear with her second year puppy kept me company. I kept looking over my shoulder then, because I didn't want to walk in between those two. The planting field was just 7 miles from the very center of our town... Bears live here among the people. You just never get to see them in the woods. They don't see us as the walking snacks. They are scared to death for us, but they don't like surprises. All you have to do is to make sure they know where you are.


 
Truth is the black bear boar is the one that sometimes decides to try to eat you. I read an article from a guy who trapped nuisance bears. He was mauled a couple times. He said we routinely tree cubs and tag their ears. The sow will make repeated bluff charges but not attack in his experience. He said if a big boar ever makes eye contact with you and approaches you anyway that, your in for the fight of your life. I have come across many here and two in the 6 to 7 hundred pound range. I have only been charged once and fortunately it was a bluff!


----------



## RandyMac (Apr 9, 2011)

ropensaddle said:


> Truth is the black bear boar is the one that sometimes decides to try to eat you. I read an article from a guy who trapped nuisance bears. He was mauled a couple times. He said we routinely tree cubs and tag their ears. The sow will make repeated bluff charges but not attack in his experience. He said if a big boar ever makes eye contact with you and approaches you anyway that, your in for the fight of your life. I have come across many here and two in the 6 to 7 hundred pound range. I have only been charged once and fortunately it was a bluff!


 
What?, you didn't charge *it*!!!!
I guess you are a weiner, I pictured you with a bowie between your teeth and a bass net in your hands.


----------



## Gologit (Apr 9, 2011)

RandyMac said:


> What?, you didn't charge *it*!!!!
> I guess you are a weiner, I pictured you with a bowie between your teeth and a bass net in your hands.


 
Nah...even that's too much. Send him in with a sharpened nail file and a leather bootlace. And we want video.


----------



## ropensaddle (Apr 10, 2011)

RandyMac said:


> What?, you didn't charge *it*!!!!
> I guess you are a weiner, I pictured you with a bowie between your teeth and a bass net in your hands.


 
I knocked an arrow and hollered at it and it finally decided against trying me further. If it came ten more yards it was gonna feel pain under its throat


----------



## Samlock (Apr 10, 2011)

ropensaddle said:


> Truth is the black bear boar is the one that sometimes decides to try to eat you. I read an article from a guy who trapped nuisance bears. He was mauled a couple times. He said we routinely tree cubs and tag their ears. The sow will make repeated bluff charges but not attack in his experience. He said if a big boar ever makes eye contact with you and approaches you anyway that, your in for the fight of your life. I have come across many here and two in the 6 to 7 hundred pound range. I have only been charged once and fortunately it was a bluff!



Thanks for the Great Distributor, we only have brown bears here. They are more predictible. Wrestling with bears doesn't include my contract....


----------



## madhatte (Apr 10, 2011)

I have had the fortune, good or bad, to encounter a whole lot of bears. However, I don't believe I've ever seen a bear's face -- I've only seen the ass end of them running away. 'Round here, they're pretty reclusive critters.


----------



## paccity (Apr 10, 2011)

madhatte said:


> I have had the fortune, good or bad, to encounter a whole lot of bears. However, I don't believe I've ever seen a bear's face -- I've only seen the ass end of them running away. 'Round here, they're pretty reclusive critters.


 
same here, when they wind ya there aholes&elbows out of there.


----------



## ropensaddle (Apr 10, 2011)

paccity said:


> same here, when they wind ya there aholes&elbows out of there.


 
Yeah but the really big ones like 7 hundred pounders get cranky in their old age. I was 2 miles from any road and I had seen his scat big as a dinner plate most scat on large bears here is 6 to 8" this bears was 12 to 14" dia.


----------



## ropensaddle (Apr 10, 2011)

Samlock said:


> Thanks for the Great Distributor, we only have brown bears here. They are more predictible. Wrestling with bears doesn't include my contract....


 
Lol more predictable yeah it is not going to be a bluff with them lmfao


----------



## FSburt (Apr 16, 2011)

Nice the old sloping backcut to prevent a set back trick. I love to hear the firewood fallers get into a debate on this and how it prevents the tree from setting back. Classic. 




Samlock said:


> I've seen a lot of stumps like that before. I used to herd a flock of the fallers from abroad. And a power company contract it was too! The most vivid (and frighting) period of my life this far.
> 
> Our neighboring country happens to be too quite a bit, let's say, unfortunate, economically. The problem is, workers coming from there are not hired because they are good, but because they are cheap. And you'll never get the best workers that way. You'll get mostly leftovers, those who didn't make it back home. The best do have jobs at home and they have no intention to go anywhere. I'm sorry to tell you that's a fact.


----------

