# commercial firewood cutting permits



## firewoodlogger1 (Aug 6, 2010)

can i get a commercial firewood cutting permit in oregon cuz im looking to start my own firewood cutting bussiness and how do i get one


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## Doingitwell (Aug 6, 2010)

Search on Google for Oregon National Forestry service. Once you get there you can usually navigate the site in regards to permits/firewood gathering and such. You may have to mess around with your search parameters, as typically National Forests are managed by different counties and/or jurisdictions. 

I cut commercially in Idaho, and I'm just a one person doing it. Don't let the word "commercially" spin you. That's just the fancy term they put on the permit stipulations/rules when you cut more than 10 cords per year per household. As well as what the Forestry Service charges. 

I would recommend you buy 5-10 cords of homeowner permits and process that before you cough up the money for a commercial permit. That's how I began. I got my feet wet, realized just how much hard work is involved with processing 2-3 cords a day from felling, limbing, bucking, loading, driving, unloading, splitting, (by hand), and stacking. It's honest work but it will teach in short order just how in-shape, (or not), you are. But the best advice I can give you, whether you're holding a saw or an axe, when you get tired, put it down and rest....I'm talking from experience.

Also consider getting a business license and insurance. Both keep you out of trouble.

Good luck!!


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## firewoodlogger1 (Aug 9, 2010)

*question*

what type of insurance should i get


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## kingOFgEEEks (Aug 9, 2010)

I would start with general liability / commercial liability. Talk to your agent about coverages. This is one place where having a good agent and knowing him well will go a long way.


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## slowp (Aug 9, 2010)

Doingitwell said:


> Search on Google for Oregon National Forestry service. Once you get there you can usually navigate the site in regards to permits/firewood gathering and such. You may have to mess around with your search parameters, as typically National Forests are managed by different counties and/or jurisdictions.



Gentle readers, There is no *Oregon National Forestry Service*. I believe you live in an area where it'll be Oregon State Dept. of Forestry, or the Bureau of Land Management (Salem) Or whichever of these is closest, The Willamette National Forest (Eugene), The Siuslaw National Forest (Corvallis), or the Mt. Hood National Forest (Sandy?). You also have private lands mixed in. So you'll need to figure out where you are going to cut firewood at and talk to them. 

Our National Forest does not issue commercial permits. It does sell firewood sales which you may bid on and purchase that way. After placing the highest bid and paying for the wood, you are issued load tags and off you go.


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## firewoodlogger1 (Aug 9, 2010)

*how*

do u bid on the wood sites


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## Doingitwell (Aug 9, 2010)

slowp said:


> Gentle readers, There is no *Oregon National Forestry Service*. I believe you live in an area where it'll be Oregon State Dept. of Forestry, or the Bureau of Land Management (Salem) Or whichever of these is closest, The Willamette National Forest (Eugene), The Siuslaw National Forest (Corvallis), or the Mt. Hood National Forest (Sandy?). You also have private lands mixed in. So you'll need to figure out where you are going to cut firewood at and talk to them.
> 
> Our National Forest does not issue commercial permits. It does sell firewood sales which you may bid on and purchase that way. After placing the highest bid and paying for the wood, you are issued load tags and off you go.



WOW, I guess I should have looked into it a little more. My apologies if I've sent the OP astray. 

When you said "Our National Forest does not issue commercial permits", I'm guessing you are referring to your state, Washington? I'm really confused though about this bid thing you mention. How does it work? I mean, do people just show up daily, weekly, monthly, to bid on wood? Is the wood that's available to be cut just in certain areas? With that type of restrictions there must be some sort of notification structure involved, i.e. A public announcement, newspaper ad or something to alert people? In my opinion, that is a real PITA. How do these commercial loggers do it? We've all watched an episode or two of Ax Men, they certainly are cutting on the commercial level. Do they too have to bid like the average Joe that just wants to heat is house? 

Gosh, if things get any worse to harvest wood we will have to mail in our application, select 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th choice cutting areas, include full payment and wait 2 months to see the draw results. Sounds awfully similar to big game hunting. :censored:

Sure glad I live/cut in Idaho, $12.50 a cord, (2 cord minimum), and off ya go. Although I pay commercial fee's as I exhausted my household limit of 10 cords back in April.

Thanks slowp for clarifying my goof. :rocker:


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## slowp (Aug 9, 2010)

Doingitwell said:


> WOW, I guess I should have looked into it a little more. My apologies if I've sent the OP astray.
> 
> When you said "Our National Forest does not issue commercial permits", I'm guessing you are referring to your state, Washington? I'm really confused though about this bid thing you mention. How does it work? I mean, do people just show up daily, weekly, monthly, to bid on wood? Is the wood that's available to be cut just in certain areas? With that type of restrictions there must be some sort of notification structure involved, i.e. A public announcement, newspaper ad or something to alert people? In my opinion, that is a real PITA. How do these commercial loggers do it? We've all watched an episode or two of Ax Men, they certainly are cutting on the commercial level. Do they too have to bid like the average Joe that just wants to heat is house?
> 
> ...



There is privately owned forest, which is overseen by the Warshington State Department Of Natural Resources (DNR).

There is State owned land (Warshington the State).

There is National Forest land...run by the USDA Forest Service which is ultimately headed by a guy in Washington the DC. Where I live it is mostly the latter--USDA Forest Service land. 

The following is how the Feds do firewood sales here. It may be different elsewhere. Firewood sales are not to be confused with logging. Firewood sales are advertised in the legal section, and notices are also sent out to folks on a mailing list. The interested people mail or bring in sealed bids with a bid deposit. The highest bid gets the wood. That is for COMMERCIAL people and also anybody who wants to buy a bunch of wood in one place.

The regular woodcutters just need a regular permit and tags. $5 a cord. You are not supposed to sell that wood. But people do. We get most of our firewood from the winter breakage and blowdown. There isn't as much logging going on to have slash piles available. There are a few now. You can't cut snags or anything standing. Has to be down on the ground, at least 300 feet from a stream, and is very limited because the Northwest Forest Plan (spotted owl inspired) dictates where you may and may not cut.
It is quite complicated. 

So, we drive around during the winter after storms or follow the melting snow up in the Spring and cut out the roads. It is legal to cut trees up that have fallen in roads. But in the special areas you can only cut the road width out, no going past the ditches. 

OK, then there are TIMBER sales. Not firewood, logs going to sawmills. Those are also bid on. Sometimes with sealed bids, sometimes in an oral auction with folks, often representing sawmills, bidding against each other. 
The high bid gets the sale, and also has to put down a downpayment, which is usually 10% of the value of the timber sold. 

The woodcutting contract is maybe 5 pages. The timber sale contract is at least a half inch thick. Wood cutting sales last maybe a month or two. Timber sales go about 3 years, or more if certain conditions are met. 

I get a lot of my wood off private ground. It is much simpler.


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## Doingitwell (Aug 9, 2010)

slowp said:


> There is privately owned forest, which is overseen by the Warshington State Department Of Natural Resources (DNR).
> 
> There is State owned land (Warshington the State).
> 
> ...



Slowp, I'm floored to say the least. I will also say you gave me an education in regards to legalities associated with WA. By the way, I lived in Anacortes for 7 years but I wasn't into wood cutting at the time. 

I wonder why so many rules and regulations for such a renewable resource that as I remember it, WA has tons and tons of forestry. Even factoring old growth and cedar out of the equation, those woods are super dense with lumber. But possibly they, the regulators, are smarter then most and are helping to ensure forest longevity for the next 100 years. Heck I don't know, it's all a guessing game. My degree's are in Engineering and Physics, I know next to nothing in regards to timber other than it's hard work.

I apologize to the forum and OP if I've hijacked the thread. I'll stop now.

Thanks again slowp.


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## alderman (Aug 9, 2010)

Oregon State Forestry Department sells limited numbers of firewood permits on a first come basis.
$10 for two cord of wood with 5 permits per year.
For personal use only.

There is a local number you can call which gives a recorded message on what is available. The bug in the ointment is you usually have to be at their office early in the morning to be in time to get a permit. They won't reserve them. 

Usually left over slash piles from logging activitiy. If you don't have to drive too far it is usually very easy wood to get and often you can pick your species except for Cedar.

Some Alder available for personal use. On this particular area there was lots of Fir, Alder, and Hemlock along with limited Maple.






Alder in the trailer





Hemlock pile available to cut





Shindaiwa 488 just to show size of this wood. Small stuff, split once and ready to burn.


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## mtngun (Aug 9, 2010)

slowp said:


> You are not supposed to sell that wood. But people do.


Similar in my jurisdiction (Idaho State Dept. of Lands). $10/cord, 10 cord/year max. Personal use only, not for commercial sales (I'm not sure how the State handles commercial firewood). 

The rules say to only cut dead stuff. However, they do not provide a scientific way to determine if a tree is dead.

One forester advised me to only cut trees that are on the ground, though the rules don't actually say that.

Another forester said I couldn't even cut trees that are on the ground, if the needles were still green. The rules don't actually say that, either.

Apparently, no two foresters can agree on the definition of "dead." 

I have my own code -- I never cut living, standing trees, only dead stuff that would otherwise rot. Mostly blowdowns, and once in a great while, a dead standing. 

This year the State got fancy and gave me a map showing my designated firewood cutting area. My permit is valid only in one section that is only a few square miles. I especially have to stay the heck out of a timber sale next door. If you want to get on the forester's chit list, just cut firewood wood in a timber sale area.

We are not allowed to transport wood that is more than 48 inches long, but people do. The rule is intended to discourage taking logs for commercial purposes, but I'm not commercial, so to heck with it. 

We are not allowed to drive on skid trails when they are muddy.

We are not allowed to move the log -- it must be cut where it lays. No skidding, because that creates environmental issues.

We are not allowed to use tractors, dozers, etc., for the same reason.

All that said, I may have been the first person in the history of the county who actually bought a firewood permit for state land. When I first moved here, I asked the neighbors and the saw shop where to buy a permit, and they said they'd never heard of such a thing.  I cut for several years before I finally found a state land office and got the lowdown on permits.

DoingitWell, your best bet is to get to know the forester who administers the firewood permits in your area, and try to get along with him or her. They don't make the rules, but if they think you are a decent person, they may bend the rules once in a while, or give you some suggestions on where to find that doug fir you've been looking for.


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## Doingitwell (Aug 10, 2010)

mtngun said:


> Similar in my jurisdiction (Idaho State Dept. of Lands). $10/cord, 10 cord/year max. Personal use only, not for commercial sales (I'm not sure how the State handles commercial firewood).
> 
> The rules say to only cut dead stuff. However, they do not provide a scientific way to determine if a tree is dead.
> 
> ...



It's all good mtngun, I have areas that provide more standing dead than I could cut in 10 lifetimes. I also recently got acquainted with a stand up Idaho guy here on the forum. He's willing to show me around for some red fir!!! It costs me nothing more than lunch and the opportunity to earn a great friendship....what more could I ask for.


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## BuddhaKat (Aug 10, 2010)

We have commercial firewood cutting permits for the Plumas National Forest in CA. $10 cord, 5 cord minimum, no limit, cut year round, dead or down only. I got lucky and found an abandoned deck that the forest service couldn't sell so I've got quite a bit of firewood available to me.


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## Spotted Owl (Aug 11, 2010)

Call the ODF office in Forest Grove they will be able to answer all your questions. They will also cover most all of the local ground that you should be dealing with, commercial, bidding process, self use and any other firewood question.

Of coarse if you're a 2nd gen logger you could always ask your 1st gen. Or use the contacts you already have as a logger.

Also, good on ya for being willing to work for your pay.



Owl


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