# Need logging chain for dozer advice and sources



## Sid Post (Mar 4, 2015)

I have a Cat D4H dozer that I need to use to pull big wood. The pine trees I took to the mill were ~2,000lbs per 20 foot section. I have some bigger wood that is 30+ inches at the base of the trunk and 60~80 feet tall. My property is flat but, my friends is heavily sloped.


What chain advice do you have to offer?
How big should I/we go (5/8ths, 3/4's, 7/8ths, other)?
What lengths should I/we be considering (thinking 50' initially)?
What am I overlooking? What general price range are we looking at for the recommended chains? Who are the favored vendors around here?

TIA,
Sid


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## Sid Post (Mar 4, 2015)

Also, what are everyone's thoughts on AMSteel synthetic rope? How does it hold up to real world use? How do you get hooks, thimbles, etc. attached (good website or youtube links?)?


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## chucker (Mar 4, 2015)

the price for heavy duty chain that your thinking will kill your pocket book!!!! cable chokers will do what you will need them for as long as you are not dragging them for a considerable distance!! a but end cut that measures 30" will take a full 8' choker alone whether it be chain or cable.....does the cat dozer have a winch or a lift on the back to elevate the timber while skidding it out? 5/8th chain at 50' will put you at roughly 500.00 for a grade 70 at least! you may be better off with a log arch an dolly to pull behind your dozer! a better question is how many cords/tree lengths do you expect to harvest from the two sites to make a better judgment on extraction material/equipment?


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## 2dogs (Mar 4, 2015)

5/8" chain is no fun to use! I have 1 short section that gets used once a year. Maybe. 50' of 5/8" chain will weigh around 150lbs! Like chucker says, go with a cable choker aka a cat choker and get the end of the log up off the ground. How long are the logs you are skidding and how long is the skid? If your dozer doesn't a winch and an arch you are in for a lot of work. If you have rippers you can weld some grab hooks and slip hooks on the frame and lift small logs off the ground using a "normal" size chain choker, ie 3/8" G70 with a choker hook from Bailey's or Labonville. If you are running a bareback dozer, well good long with anything heavy.

BTW 50' of 3'4" chain will weigh 325lbs and cost you around $2,000.00


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## northmanlogging (Mar 4, 2015)

3/8's chain say 9' length will work, however, proper logging chain is expensive even good tow chains aren't cheap, you can get a couple of 5/8 chokers for the price of 1 chain and be miles ahead.

Or you can get the crap 3/8 import stuff for the same price as a cable choker, break it a few times, then go get a good choker and call it good

Whatever you want to do, Bailey's has what you're going to need, or any local rigging/industrial supply place should be able to hook you up... no pun intended


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## northmanlogging (Mar 4, 2015)

Now that I read the rest of yer post... 

Unless you have a winch on the back of that cat, a 50' chain would be psychotic... keep em short, or use a cable. 

If you don't have a winch get a snatch block or two and run around 80-90' of cable through it, with your chokers of choice on the end, then use the cat make a sort of cold deck...


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## Sid Post (Mar 5, 2015)

No winch yet. The blade has hooks to lift for a choker which sounds like the best option.

The weight and cost of chain makes that a less desirable option than originally envisioned.

Sounds like a choker and Dyneema synthetic rope are probably a better option.

We are looking at ~100 acres of mixed sizes and species of trees after being previously clear cut.

I really appreciate everyone's comments.

Best Regards,
Sid


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## 2dogs (Mar 5, 2015)

Synthetic lines are a fantastic tool in the correct circumstances. They can NOT touch anything during a pull or they will be cut and snap. And they aren't cheap either. I would consider a steel wire rope (cable). I use both along with both chain and wire rope chokers. Remember that wire rope can not bend around a sharp edge or it will be damaged. If your hooks are on the backside of the blade you can't just hook a wire rope to it and pull from the front. You will need extra rigging to get over the top of the blade or better yet weld a couple of chain grab hooks (bucket hooks) for chain and a large round hook like an arch line hook to hook wire or synthetic rope into.

I have seen pics of dozers in Australia that have a short but heavy duty A-frame welded to the blade to hook a choker onto to get extra lift. The A-frame was maybe 2' high.


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## Sid Post (Mar 5, 2015)

The limb rake attachment is welded to the top of the blade so it is clear. We will probably get an 'arm' to attach to this mount for lifting.

We have a strong ball mount on the dozer about two feet off the ground so, in most cases it should clear 'rub' points.


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## chucker (Mar 5, 2015)

was just into the local fleet farm store for a look see what a chain would cost... all they had was a grd.70 1/2" x20 ' for 100.00 without tax!


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## northmanlogging (Mar 5, 2015)

Avoid the synthetic stuff for skidding logs, some folks like it, but without the proper fair leads, and having nice clean drags its literally pissing money into a hole...

Really though how steep of ground you talkin here, cause unless the cat can't get there ya shouldn't need anything more then a few feet and a short tag out piece. Hang a couple of 9-12' chokers off the blade and give her Hel. Though you'll be happier if you can hang the chokers off the back.... or at least your neck and back will be...

Also the chineeese snatch blocks are like $60-70 for a 5/8 capacity version, and will save your cable if you need to go around any bends. Hooking a stump to turn isn't so bad but don't make a habit out of it...


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## rwoods (Mar 5, 2015)

Not recommending this but if you got to have 3/4" chain, there are usually several sellers on eBay selling NOS military surplus 12' lengths with pear loops on the ends and one grab hook. Weighs over 80 pounds. Not sure if they are all the same grade as the breaking strengths listed vary from 50,000+ # to almost 75,000 #. Pricing and shipping varies as well. Ron


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## ArtB (Mar 8, 2015)

Not mentioned yet is that an old 70 YO guy can still drag even 100 ft of 5/8 wire rope thru the woods fairly well, but never have even tried to drag 50 ft of 3/4" chain. Even 40 years ago would much rather handle wire rope than chain for anything over 10-12 ft. 

Have a bunch of cable and chains, don't think I have any chain longer than 20 ft that I use regularly. Am partial to 5/8" wire rope and 1/2" chain. Use chain mostly for tying a block to a stump, otherwise cable as others have advised. Biggest machine I have is 15,000#, and have not ever stretched any links on grade 70 or better 1/2" chain. Have broken 3/8" wire rope, but not 1/2" or 5/8". The navy surplus 3/4" chain I had 30 some years ago ended up getting cut into 16 ft pieces and used for road access restriction barriers.


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## catbuster (Mar 10, 2015)

You want a large cable and chokers. And you want a winch. Cats do a lot better skidding weight off the back, it keeps the downforce close to the finals and the machine will not only pull better but it won't want to walk on its toes. 

And please don't sideslope on more than 20 degrees or so (1:4) unless you're a truly seasoned and or savant cat skinner. I know I sound like a trite ****, but the D4H is a top heavy machine because of the high drive with such little frame, blade and engine weight. The cab/substructure ratio is much larger than on a larger high drive dozer. You have no idea how the ground reacts under 25,00 lbs, either.


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## Sid Post (Mar 11, 2015)

I spent my youth on a D4D. The high operator position has taken some time to get comfortable with on side slopes. We are looking for a winch but, they are scarce around here. Where I am at right now is pretty flat so there is no risk of a roll over pulling timber. The blade will lift enough for a choker when needed so, I think I'm heading in the right direction with straight pulls when things dry out.

While less than ideal, we have some time to figure things out before the difficult pulls start.


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## catbuster (Mar 12, 2015)

Sid Post said:


> I spent my youth on a D4D. The high operator position has taken some time to get comfortable with on side slopes. We are looking for a winch but, they are scarce around here. Where I am at right now is pretty flat so there is no risk of a roll over pulling timber. The blade will lift enough for a choker when needed so, I think I'm heading in the right direction with straight pulls when things dry out.
> 
> While less than ideal, we have some time to figure things out before the difficult pulls start.



A D4D has a much lower center of gravity than a 4H. You'll roll the high drive cat where that 4D from your youth would go happily. I'm just saying this as a pro equipment operator and business owner who works the hills 12 hours a day for roughly 2800 hours a year in all conditions from wildland fires to building access roads. Most of my seat time is split between a D8R and a Cat 349 excavator. 

Your safety is paramount. And small high drive Cats are not good for steep slopes, especially where there are unseen obstacles under the slash. If it were a D8 High drive, I wouldn't worry. There's enough weight in the lower structure that it matters a lot less. But the machine you're using in known for being high centered.


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## Sid Post (Mar 13, 2015)

I totally agree. The CG's are very different. I am very careful with side slopes and appreciate your concern for my safety.


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