# life insurance for tree men



## Plasmech (Jan 30, 2010)

Regardless of whether or not I can call myself a tree man, my life insurance company is probably going to. What will this mean for my rates? Will they skyrocket? Need some advice from the village elders here. Thanks!


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## treemandan (Jan 30, 2010)

TreeCo said:


> I've never had life insurance. Wish I could help.



No life ins? Is that true?


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## Plasmech (Jan 30, 2010)

My wife has been on my case about it.


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## Tree Pig (Jan 30, 2010)

Plasmech said:


> My wife has been on my case about it.



Uh oh if you catch her in the kitchen coring a bunch of apples and saving the seeds look out.


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## tree md (Jan 30, 2010)

I don't carry it either... I always thought it was like betting on myself dieing...


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## Treecutr (Jan 30, 2010)

If you care about your kids and family, you should have life insurance. My dad refused to get it for years, now hes too old ( 75 ) and finally listened to me that a lot of his debt will be passed on not just go away when he dies. I have $400,000, through military because of having to go to war regular life insurance won't pay for acts of war, so I stick with it.


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## IcePick (Jan 30, 2010)

for about two hundred bucks a year, around five bucks a week will get you a one hundred thousand dollar policy through AFLAC. I've got that and I have a policy through my medical insurance company. It makes me feel good knowing if something happens to me my little one will still get a chance to go to college and have some sort of security.


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## RVALUE (Jan 30, 2010)

Treecutr said:


> If you care about your kids and family, you should have life insurance. My dad refused to get it for years, now hes too old ( 75 ) and finally listened to me that a lot of his debt will be passed on not just go away when he dies. I have $400,000, through military because of having to go to war regular life insurance won't pay for acts of war, so I stick with it.



With a declining market in real estate values, this becomes even more important. I had a friend that his family went from "tip top" to the very bottom from lack of insurance. And they are still there.


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## treemandan (Jan 30, 2010)

Plasmech said:


> My wife has been on my case about it.



It was a stipulation before we got married that I should be so endowed as to be able to pay someone to clean up the mess I leave behind. Plus I have a kid.

But at this point for about a month I have lost my policy. Going through the rigamaroll to obtain a sound policy takes some work... first I gotta sober up.
Mention tree and they will not approve the policy in some case or it just adds a steeper premium. Usually a company will take blood and have you fill the application out then they process it THEN they tell you if they will accept you.
I need to get a will as well. If you have a big enough estate ( savings) you don't need the ins but if you don't have enough money you pay your debts when you die for any reason they expect your spouse to pay.


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## Blakesmaster (Jan 30, 2010)

tree md said:


> I don't carry it either... I always thought it was like betting on myself dieing...



That's the way I look at it. Suppose it would be different if I had kids though.


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## treeman82 (Jan 31, 2010)

I've got a 250K policy and pay about $20 per month. They don't care about the fact that I am an arborist, however they do care about smoking, drinking, family medical history, etc.


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## Taxmantoo (Jan 31, 2010)

treemandan said:


> if you don't have enough money you pay your debts when you die for any reason they expect your spouse to pay.



In most states, they can expect all they want, but she should just tell them to go pounds sand. Lots of collection agencies like to coerce payment out of people who aren't responsible for a debt, they should get a nice federal lawsuit (google FDCPA) instead of payment.

All the debts will be a claim against your estate. You should leave spouse/kids enough insurance to redeem the loans on anything you need them to keep (house/car/etc) and to keep them fed for as long as you think they might need it.


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## pdqdl (Jan 31, 2010)

A viable option for folks that are only worried about debt would be to check the little box on every loan that authorizes addition of a "credit life" coverage to the loan. I adds a fee, raises the cost of a loan, and generally costs more than life insurance. _But it pays the loan if you croak._

When my dad was dying, he went out and got a 17k loan, signed up for credit life. He figured he couldn't get any life insurance, but he could at least pay off some debt and manage to leave something. _It worked._


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## ashburg (Feb 11, 2010)

Hey Guys - newb here, but in a past life, I was very heavy into life insurance sales on a brokerage level. Currently, and in the past 5 years, I have built a landscape maintenance company (hence my presence here) and we're getting into tree work a little at a time...

Life Insurance for Tree Workers - *don't fret I won't try to sell you any* - whether you are approved or not, whether you can afford the rate that what-ever company gives you a policy, for the sake of the value of it all and for the sake of your would be beneficiaries:

During the application process, make sure that you fully and explicitly disclose every climb you have done or anticipate doing from as far back as 5 years and as far forward as 2 years.

If you don't, your "claim" can be denied if you die.

What good would that do? If you pay into a policy, waste your money, and your spouse or beneficiary gets denied any $$ 

How to make sure you have a water tight deal with the company: don't let your agent schmooze your way past underwriting on the app or during the application process. Some agents will downright lie or leave things out, knowing that you might not bite when you see the hiked up premium due to the fact that you are-indeed-a-high-risk. As a matter of fact, have your agent submit an addendum to the app to be seen by the underwriter and attached to the contract...this way, they can not claim that you did not disclose in full. The claims that are scrutinized the most are the cases that were deemed to be an "accident"...these companies have teams of people who's job it is to make sure you have a valid claim and that you disclosed everything you do in life upon application. 

From an underwriting standpoint, yes, as a climber/tree worker you are a significantly higher risk and will merit a significantly higher premium. Can you get a policy - yes...but at a much higher rate than a standard risk, I guarantee that.

Gentlemen, I hope this helps - I'm going to ask you about harnesses in a minute  and I just felt like this was my opportunity to attempt to give back and contribute...hope I'm not out of place

best regards,
ash


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## Blakesmaster (Feb 11, 2010)

Good information ash, and welcome.


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## Toddppm (Feb 11, 2010)

ashburg said:


> During the application process, make sure that you fully and explicitly disclose every climb you have done or anticipate doing from as far back as 5 years and as far forward as 2 years.
> 
> If you don't, your "claim" can be denied if you die.
> 
> ash



Fully disclose every climb? What? How is this possible?


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## ashburg (Feb 12, 2010)

Toddppm said:


> Fully disclose every climb? What? How is this possible?



Yessir...but you can make broad statements if you do alot of climbing. Each statement would merit a different insurance rate depending upon frequency, height, etc:

Examples: 

"In the past 5 years, I have done 4 climbs to a height of 100 ft"

"In the past 5 years, I was employed as a tree climber, at times reaching heights of 100 ft"

"In the past 2 years, I have done climbs now and then to a height of 25 feet"

"...worked for tree company for the past 10 years and plan on working there for the forseeable future"

"Dropped one tree 2 years ago, didn't like the work, so don't plan on doing it again any time in the future"

hope this helps


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## Tree Machine (Feb 13, 2010)

I have life insurance for one million. The joke here at home is I'm worth more dead than alive.... if I fall and I'm not dead I gotta go back up and do it again, yea, yea, yea. She's not allowed to kill me, yet the threats are still pretty regular.

When I applied, a nurse was sent to my home for the health interview and to take blood samples. The family history interview was extensive and exhaustive, but never once did they ask what I did for a living. I went as far as to ask them if they wanted to know what I did for a living and they said I couldn't be denied, based on my chosen profession. This was good by me as at the time there were four other professions that were considered more dangerous.

My premium is around $750 per year. My rate is low because of low risk factors, good family genes I guess, and I don't smoke and my blood work came out clean and I didn't lie on anything in the interview. Plus, at the time (2004), I was young. Now, that's up for debate. They do a full reassessment at 10 years.

They ask about high-risk hobbies, though. SCUBA diving was out at the time, but I believe is OK now. Hang gliding was banned, paragliding, bungee jumping. I was thinking those things are rather gentle compared to what I do day to day.

Quite different than what ashburg is saying, and I would consider him an authority. I guess maybe it's different, state to state. I'm in Indiana.


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## Tree Machine (Feb 13, 2010)

pdqdl, very sorry about your Dad. However, he's left us all with a really valuable tip to keep in mind. Thank you.


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## ashburg (Feb 14, 2010)

Tree Machine said:


> I have life insurance for one million. The joke here at home is I'm worth more dead than alive.... if I fall and I'm not dead I gotta go back up and do it again, yea, yea, yea. She's not allowed to kill me, yet the threats are still pretty regular.
> 
> When I applied, a nurse was sent to my home for the health interview and to take blood samples. The family history interview was extensive and exhaustive, but never once did they ask what I did for a living. I went as far as to ask them if they wanted to know what I did for a living and they said I couldn't be denied, based on my chosen profession. This was good by me as at the time there were four other professions that were considered more dangerous.
> 
> ...





TM - I would get a new policy if you want to be covered while doing tree work. They MIGHT pay if you died of, say, cancer (not exactly related to tree work), but then they might not - citing that perhaps the fumes from the chain saw contributed to a cancerous environment, who knows. At any rate, my gut is that you need a new policy, fully underwritten, paying the higher premiums or lowering your face amount to something more affordable.

good luck,


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## Tree Machine (Feb 14, 2010)

Hmmm, I guess the fact remains that a 'claim' can be denied based on anything the insurer wants to base it on. After all, they're not in the business to shell out payment. They're in the business to take in premiums, show a profit, build a business and please the shareholders.

I consider driving 70 mph along side other drivers who may be inexperienced, elderly, falling asleep, texting, drunk or distracted more dangerous than climbing up a tree, but that's a moot point and has nothing to do with anything. We all live dangerous and risky lives, regardless of our profession. An accident is an accident regardless of where it happens and you never know when tragedy will strike. Hence, the reason for my having bought life insurance. It's not about my profession. It's about life in general.

If an insurer wants to deny a claim, they have the incentive and lawyer power to do so, using whatever reasoning they want. This is a sad fact and is probably why TreeCo won't ever buy life insurance. I can see the smarts in that. I feel kind of helpless, having heard the news reports of a long-standing insured persons being dishonored by the insurer in their moment of need, left hanging with little more than a 'sorry, but no.'

We appreciate your contribution, Ashburg. Can you share more of your experienced insight? Is there anything we should really know in making these decisions?


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## ashburg (Feb 14, 2010)

Yes, TM, it is unfortunate that some people get denied - but in all fairness lets back up and consider:

If you did not disclose tree work in the application process, then the insurance company assumes that you are as benign of a risk as someone who works in an office and they do not collect from you the higher premiums that they would need to collect to cover that kind of risk pool.

It very well may be that TreeCo doesn't want to incur the expense of life (or disability) policies, but perhaps if they were to set aside a fund with those would-be premium dollars, it would be of benefit;

Consider that the higher amount of premium that you would be charged is going to be invested by the company so they can show a profit and retain earnings - what if you did the same thing with that $$ - take that would-be premium and save/invest in a disciplined way...after all, if the company does approve you, albeit at a higher premium, they have essentially decided that you are going to live "x" amount of years and they feel comfortable knowing that they amount of $$ they collect from you (plus interest) over those years will more than cover any claims (and they still show a profit).

Point being: take those would-be premium dollars and save it or invest it on your own in lieu of purchasing a life policy IF you are buying that policy for the purpose of passing on money to heirs or for final expenses. This is akin to a Whole Life Policy or a Universal Life Policy (permanent coverage).

Alternately, if you need to be covered for, say, a mortgage for a TERM period of time, say, 15 years, then purchasing a 15 year term policy instead of saving on your own might be the better plan.

If you ever quit climbing, no problemo - you could get a life policy for alot cheaper price and be covered for the usual happy stuff like cancer, diabetes, heart disease, car accidents, etc...

...off to play in the snow - we got EIGHT whole inches here in SC, which is totally foreign to us. I spotted 3 trees down too and plan to bid on them soon 

regards, 
ash


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## treeslayer (Mar 25, 2010)

Mark Janet said:


> Hello Tree man,
> 
> I have one of the best solution for your life insurance. Use Free instant Online *life insurance quotes* and take step in to your financial planing. *Life Insurance Quote* helps and save big money.
> 
> ...



Too funny, a troll selling life insurance on Arborist 101


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## crater (Mar 25, 2010)

Hey Ash, great savings plan. But if life ins cost 750 per year it would take give or take 15yrs of savings to be able to bury me with funeral expense averaging 10-15k.
Funny that in most states it's illegal to have unorganized gambling (just because the feds and state what there piece of the pie) but isn't life ins just a gamble? Let's face it after 15-20yrs of high risk work, we hopefully will be moving into a less risk category like ownership and letting the young ones take over the really risky stuff. So if the "big limb" comes and gets me before I have enough saved maybe wife will only get to bury half of me. Wonder which end will be up?


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## treedogg (Mar 28, 2010)

crater said:


> So if the "big limb" comes and gets me before I have enough saved maybe wife will only get to bury half of me. Wonder which end will be up?



..until lately(kid on the way) i just figured I would save up all the good pieces of wood I can and build a hell-of-a funeral pyre...go out in style ya know! now it is turnin' into a different story but, I am still lookin for style points!


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## TreeTarget (Mar 30, 2010)

Never climb, hopefully never will...but with my position, life insurance is not an option...yes, I have a son and raise him on my own...if I go, have to take care of him. I don't make much, but a small part of what I do bring in goes for something that he can use regardless of tomorrow or after the tricentenial...not all life insurance is the same...so get the real deal...not the bargain.


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## tree md (Mar 30, 2010)

I'd like to see the look on the agents face who had a treeman come in and tell him that he was looking for life insurance... And then says "I smoke two packs a day, drink two gallons of whiskey a week and spend everyday 60' or better in the air"...

Now that would be priceless... :greenchainsaw:


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## treedogg (Mar 31, 2010)

tree md said:


> I'd like to see the look on the agents face who had a treeman come in and tell him that he was looking for life insurance... And then says "I smoke two packs a day, drink two gallons of whiskey a week and spend everyday 60' or better in the air"...
> 
> Now that would be priceless... :greenchainsaw:



OH HE'D PUT A PRICE ON IT! :taped:


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## ashburg (Mar 31, 2010)

tree md said:


> I'd like to see the look on the agents face who had a treeman come in and tell him that he was looking for life insurance... And then says "I smoke two packs a day, drink two gallons of whiskey a week and spend everyday 60' or better in the air"...
> 
> Now that would be priceless... :greenchainsaw:



Actually, that would be a decline across the board except for "guaranteed issue", which is wayyy expensive - you might as well put the premium dollars in the bank


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## seattletreecare (Mar 31, 2010)

tree md said:


> I'd like to see the look on the agents face who had a treeman come in and tell him that he was looking for life insurance... And then says "I smoke two packs a day, drink two gallons of whiskey a week and spend everyday 60' or better in the air"...
> 
> Now that would be priceless... :greenchainsaw:



Their body language would say it all...priceless as you say


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## gwiley (Mar 31, 2010)

tree md said:


> I don't carry it either... I always thought it was like betting on myself dieing...



Well, that is one bet that you can bank on. So far life has a 100% mortality rate.


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## Mark Janet (Apr 3, 2010)

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---------------------------------------------------------
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## tree md (Apr 3, 2010)

ashburg said:


> Actually, that would be a decline across the board except for "guaranteed issue", which is wayyy expensive - you might as well put the premium dollars in the bank



Hey ashburg, I got your private message awhile back but accidentally deleted it before I answered. Had to make room. I've got 9 years worth of contacts and numbers stored in there so it gets a little crowded. I can't remember what you asked but if you want to send me another message I will do my best to answer your question and not delete it this time.


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## Tree Machine (Apr 3, 2010)

Ask openly. We're all trying to learn here.


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## tree md (Apr 3, 2010)

If I'm not mistaken TM, our friend Ashburg was interested in purchasing a saddle (one of mine and your favorite topics to discuss ). He posted a question in the open forum but did not get a lot of responses.


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## ashburg (Apr 3, 2010)

tree md said:


> If I'm not mistaken TM, our friend Ashburg was interested in purchasing a saddle (one of mine and your favorite topics to discuss ). He posted a question in the open forum but did not get a lot of responses.



Bought the one hanging on the wall at the local power equipment supply store - put it on with a set of $300 spikes (and about $500 worth of other stuff like lanyards, etc), ........

....and chickened out 10 feet up LOL

hats off guys, you're braver than I am.

I'll be subbin' trees out as usual this year 

Back to the lawn maintenance and life insurance brokerage (which is still lagging with the economy 

My lawn care service company is actually doing quite well though...although I do get alot of inquiries where they want you to do their dirty work (pulling up roots, weeding out blackberry vines and poison oak out of their azaleas, digging up stumps LOL love that one, etc...all in all, all is well.

ash


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## tree md (Apr 3, 2010)

It isn't for everyone but then again, neither is lawn maintenance or insurance brokerage...

To tell the truth, I would be concerned with anyone trying to learn tree removal on their own. Climbing for fun or with a handsaw is one thing, trying to do a large removal with a chainsaw and no hands on experience or apprenticeship is quite another. I cringe when I read about some of these guys trying to do a large removal going off of what they have read and learned on the internet.


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## Tree Machine (Apr 3, 2010)

ashburg said:


> My lawn care service company is actually doing quite well though...although I do get alot of inquiries where they want you to do their dirty work (pulling up roots, weeding out blackberry vines and poison oak out of their azaleas, digging up stumps LOL love that one, etc...all in all, all is well.
> 
> ash



Sounds like you need to return the spikes and get yourself a weedwrench. Now _that_ tool will pay itself off in short order and keep on giving and giving and giving. From your short description of what you do in your grounds service, this tool could become a superstar. Makes the 'dirty work' of pulling things out by the roots.... entertaining. I mean it. And lucrative. I wouldn't kid about something as important as your income.

I'm not sure I could have helped you with the saddle choice.


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