# Flipline: with wire core or not?



## mig (Apr 2, 2008)

Hi

I would like to ask what type of flipline you usually use. With wire core or without it? Pros and cons?

Thanks


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## tomtrees58 (Apr 2, 2008)

it depends on job working by power lines ??tom trees


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## mig (Apr 2, 2008)

I mean in "normal" work (removes...) not near power line


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## Nailsbeats (Apr 2, 2008)

Here's my 2 cents, probably many different opinions on this.

I have a 5/8 yale wire core. Great when climbing with gaffs and flipping up a straight spar. Also when chunking wood off the spar, sturdy, stiff, and a little saw protection. I say stiff cause it's more likely to lay straight around the tree and not get hung up on every little thing. It's nice when you are making big cuts around it.

Rope is great for positioning in the canopy or climbing around limbs because it will form to the shape its around effortlessly. Also it is lighter, and seems easier to handle in these situations. 

I have them both and prefer each in different applications.


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## newb (Apr 2, 2008)

I've always climbed on wire-core, could't imagine climbing without. Pete


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## clearance (Apr 2, 2008)

tomtrees58 said:


> it depends on job working by power lines ??tom trees



Another myth.


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## squad143 (Apr 2, 2008)

I like the secure feeling I get with the wire core. It is stiffer and easier to flip IMO. When I climb I use both. (Can go around limb and still be tied in). Just feel safer leaning against the wire core though.


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## mig (Apr 3, 2008)

thanks all for replies

I think I wil be feel more safe with a wire core flipline too.


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## HolmenTree (Apr 3, 2008)

I always have two lanyards on my saddle one on each side, they never come off. One wirecore one not .Yale Maxi Flip wirecore is the only one to use[best splicing]. Both my lanyard are 5/8" with Macrograbs [easier to handle] attached with stainless twist clevises.

Willard.


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## hornett224 (Apr 4, 2008)

*i use a wire core.*

the weight helps.

i worked with treemds last week and he uses non wire.seems to work for him.i like the non wire for tie ins but i'd need to use one more to know if i like it for flipping.


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## arbor pro (Apr 4, 2008)

1994 - two years after starting my tree service company...

I'm climbing a cottonwood for removal with spikes and flipline (non-wire-core). I'm chunking down wood in record time and working about 35' off the ground. I go to adjust my flipline after a routine cut and notice that only one tiny strand of material is all that's holding me after I apparently knicked the line with my 14" bar on the notch cut.

After composing myself and reattaching with a second lanyard, I look down and notice that I'm working right above a bunch of small spear-like beaver stumps. Had one more thread been cut, I wouldn't be typing this today. That evening, I ordered a wire-core flipline and will never use anything else again. Don't think it could happen to you? Neither did I but, I almost became a statistic that day. Novice or seasoned pro, why take the chance...?


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## Stumpcutter1 (Apr 4, 2008)

5/8" steelcore all the way


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## Mikecutstrees (Apr 4, 2008)

Wirecore flipline with micro grab for me. I also have a double ended lanyard that I use sometimes. I prefer the wirecore for the extra security and it flips easily over knots too.


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## treeclimber jul (Apr 4, 2008)

wire core for me Too


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## beowulf343 (Apr 5, 2008)

mig said:


> thanks all for replies
> 
> I think I wil be feel more safe with a wire core flipline too.



I've said it before and i'll say it again-if you can't control your saw well enough to avoid cutting a flipline, you better stay out of the trees. I've seen too many people become way to complacent just because they have a wirecore.


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## Fallguy1960 (Apr 5, 2008)

I work for a power company and I can tell you that if you flip a rope on to a high voltage line wire core or not you are in deep dodo. ONLY tested and designed equipment are non conductivity. Any dirt ,moisture,sap or oil will increase the conductivity of the rope. The rope may limit the amount of voltage but enough will get through to wreck your day. The OHSA standards for minimum approach distance is 15 feet.


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## Nailsbeats (Apr 6, 2008)

I have a technical diploma in Electrical Power Distribution, and worked as a lineman for a while until we started our own businiess. Anyway, I saw my dad throw his climbing line over a phase of 7200V and pull it back off like nothing happened. 

I was on the ground and yelled at him to watch the power lines, he chucks his climbing line through a crotch and onto the power. I couldn't believe it, but he pulled it off and tied in like nothing happened. 

He used to do line clearance and also ran his own crew, he said as long as the rope is clean and not wet you are alright. He is a little crazy and I would not recomend this, but I did see it done.


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## capetrees (Apr 6, 2008)

3/4 wire core for me. Both actually. One fails, you have another. And to beowolf, I understand where you're coming from with the control and all but one slip and you're all done. we all make mistakes.


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## custom8726 (Apr 6, 2008)

HolmenTree said:


> I always have two lanyards on my saddle one on each side, they never come off. One wirecore one not .Yale Maxi Flip wirecore is the only one to use[best splicing]. Both my lanyard are 5/8" with Macrograbs [easier to handle] attached with stainless twist clevises.
> 
> Willard.



X2, Exact same set up I use.


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## oldirty (Apr 6, 2008)

capetrees said:


> I understand where you're coming from with the control and all but one slip and you're all done.




not if your tied in twice bud. i rarely make a move without being tied in. RARELY. if i do its with 3 very good points of contact.


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## Nailsbeats (Apr 6, 2008)

If you are serious about full saw protection, go with a log chain. Now that would have a tough stance and I don't mean maybe.


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## arbor pro (Apr 7, 2008)

beowulf343 said:


> I've said it before and i'll say it again-if you can't control your saw well enough to avoid cutting a flipline, you better stay out of the trees. I've seen too many people become way to complacent just because they have a wirecore.



I've been in the tree care industry 23 years now. It was 13 years ago when I knicked my flipline. I've never done it since. One time is all it takes.

Also in 1994 (bad year for me), I was deadwooding another tree when, after completing a cut, the tree shook just a bit causing another dead branch 30' further up in the tree canopy to break off and fall straight down on me like a spear. The butt of the branch knocked the bar of my 020t (at idle) into my right knee splitting it open from one side to the other. I still have a 'jelly knee' today thanks to that incident but, I consider it a fluke accident rather than a mistake I made. 

If I had been wearing chaps or chainsaw pants, the safety material likely would have prevented the cut. My knee reminds me of that every day. However, I'm alive today even though I wasn't wearing chaps. If my non-wire-core flipline had been cut completely through in my other 1994 incident, I wouldn't be around at all. To me, a wire-core flipline is more important than chaps because you typically won't be recovering from a fall in the case of a cut flipline.

(FYI- these are the only two incidents that I have had in 23 years. Two too many in anyone's book, I know. But, nonetheless, not a regular occurance for me - hopefully, just a bad year...)


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## (WLL) (Apr 7, 2008)

i have never liked the wire core until Yale started splicing them. the maxi flip is a great trusty flip-line. it is my first choice for a removal,but gets switched out for pruning work. i think the better choice is wire core. remember safety first!!


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## HolmenTree (Apr 7, 2008)

Nailsbeats said:


> If you are serious about full saw protection, go with a log chain. Now that would have a tough stance and I don't mean maybe.



LOL, you would need a tough stance on spurs working in a tree with a chain flipline. The heavy chain sliding down the tree trunk to the level of your knees when you don't expect it, could leave you hanging upside down.

Now that would be a tough stance and I don't mean maybe.:jawdrop:


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## (WLL) (Apr 7, 2008)

Nailsbeats said:


> If you are serious about full saw protection, go with a log chain. Now that would have a tough stance and I don't mean maybe.


there is no such thing as full saw protection but what u said was just plain stupid.lol


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## beowulf343 (Apr 8, 2008)

Now don't get me wrong guys, i've got nothing against wirecores (well, that's a lie, but we won't get into it now.) I'm just more concerned about too many climber's perception of how much added safety the wirecore provides. I know climbers who seem to think the wirecore is a log chain and can't be cut with a saw. I've seen it happen. A couple years ago, was working under a climber while he was cutting a notch to start chunking a stem. The next thing i know i hear a shout and he falls almost right at my feet. (Just about scared the crap outta me.) Fortunately he was fine, but the first thing he said to me was "I though the wirecore was cutproof?" The first thing is said to him was "why do you think i always tie in twice on a stem?" Frankly, my main saw in a tree is a 357xp. That thing will cut a wirecore as quick as a rope. I guess all i'm saying is be careful-the wirecore is safer but it isn't proof against poor sawmanship. (And if that isn't a word, i want credit.)



arbor pro said:


> I've been in the tree care industry 23 years now. It was 13 years ago when I knicked my flipline. I've never done it since. One time is all it takes.
> 
> Also in 1994 (bad year for me), I was deadwooding another tree when, after completing a cut, the tree shook just a bit causing another dead branch 30' further up in the tree canopy to break off and fall straight down on me like a spear. The butt of the branch knocked the bar of my 020t (at idle) into my right knee splitting it open from one side to the other. I still have a 'jelly knee' today thanks to that incident but, I consider it a fluke accident rather than a mistake I made.
> 
> ...



Yep, i nicked my flipline back in my second year of climbing. Learned my lesson too and thankfully have never done it since. But i'm actually working with a climber right now who nicks a steelcore about every three weeks and thinks all is fine. (and that i'm an idiot to keep riding him about it.)


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## thebiggreenone (Apr 8, 2008)

I use a soft core on prunes because I like its light weight and flexibility, and a steel core on removals because it is easier to flip up the trunk when you are on spikes.


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## KiwiTreeSteve (Apr 8, 2008)

i agree with Beowulf, sawmanship, is something that i am working at every day and hope that one day i can consider myself tallented.

i have had the chance to experiment on this matter in class, at my Arb School, and we took a, 1/2 samson arbormaster blue rope Flipline and cut it with a sharp 026 as expectied the result was, messy cut thru with ease. we then took a 5/8 Steel cored flipline, and cut thru it (after re - sharpening,to keep saw consistant) the result suprised me, very little if any difference to cuting through the arbormaster.

well thats my 2 cents worth, any way



"I cannot teach u tree biology...................... You must touch trees. You must begin thinking like a tree." Shigo.


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## oldirty (Apr 8, 2008)

beowulf343 said:


> Now don't get me wrong guys, i've got nothing against wirecores (well, that's a lie, but we won't get into it now.) I'm just more concerned about too many climber's perception of how much added safety the wirecore provides. I know climbers who seem to think the wirecore is a log chain and can't be cut with a saw. I've seen it happen. A couple years ago, was working under a climber while he was cutting a notch to start chunking a stem. The next thing i know i hear a shout and he falls almost right at my feet. (Just about scared the crap outta me.) Fortunately he was fine, but the first thing he said to me was "I though the wirecore was cutproof?" The first thing is said to him was "why do you think i always tie in twice on a stem?" Frankly, my main saw in a tree is a 357xp. That thing will cut a wirecore as quick as a rope. I guess all i'm saying is be careful-the wirecore is safer but it isn't proof against poor sawmanship. (And if that isn't a word, i want credit.)
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, i nicked my flipline back in my second year of climbing. Learned my lesson too and thankfully have never done it since. But i'm actually working with a climber right now who nicks a steelcore about every three weeks and thinks all is fine. (and that i'm an idiot to keep riding him about it.)





not that it matters to you big guy, but damn near everything i have read from you on this site is and should at least be considered the gospel.

to the others looking for legitimate help read all of this guys posts. there is a gem in all of his writings.


with no disrespect to the other fulltimers here on this site with tons of knowledge i think i beowulf should be the president.

much respect to beowulf!


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## chainshawman (Apr 8, 2008)

*wire core or not wire core ?*

If you are nicking flip line with saw get out of tree because you are not paying attention to what you are doing! Some day some one will have to drag you out of woods in body bag !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Marty B (Apr 8, 2008)

*I agree 100% with this......*



Nailsbeats said:


> Here's my 2 cents, probably many different opinions on this.
> 
> I have a 5/8 yale wire core. Great when climbing with gaffs and flipping up a straight spar. Also when chunking wood off the spar, sturdy, stiff, and a little saw protection. I say stiff cause it's more likely to lay straight around the tree and not get hung up on every little thing. It's nice when you are making big cuts around it.
> 
> ...



Flip lines are not very expensive, have both styles on hand. When possible a climber should ALWAYS have two tie-ins when running a chainsaw in the tree! :greenchainsaw:


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## Nailsbeats (Apr 8, 2008)

(WLL) said:


> there is no such thing as full saw protection but what u said was just plain stupid.lol



You show me a saw in your arsenal that will cut through a log chain and I will shove it up your a$$.


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## (WLL) (Apr 8, 2008)

Nailsbeats said:


> You show me a saw in your arsenal that will cut through a log chain and I will shove it up your a$$.


i think your airwalks are bigger then your feet and im sure your mouth is bigger then your brain. get the cheese outa yer head dude, its its making you dizzy


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## 2FatGuys (Apr 8, 2008)

(WLL) said:


> i think your airwalks are bigger then your feet and im sure your mouth is bigger then your brain. get the cheese outa yer head dude, its its making you dizzy



Awfully grouchy for a b-day boy... accept that you are getting older and drink a beer (or 12).... and enjoy that you have safely made it through another year!


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## HolmenTree (Apr 8, 2008)

Marty B said:


> Flip lines are not very expensive, have both styles on hand. When possible a climber should ALWAYS have two tie-ins when running a chainsaw in the tree! :greenchainsaw:



Thats what I was taught too, always 2 tie ins when running a saw, I may be a little compulsive but I always feel behind the stem to make sure the lanyard is not caught on a stub and is higher then it appears to be.


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## (WLL) (Apr 8, 2008)

HolmenTree said:


> Thats what I was taught too, always 2 tie ins when running a saw, I may be a little compulsive but I always feel behind the stem to make sure the lanyard is not caught on a stub and is higher then it appears to be.


are u putting notches in most of your stem cuts?


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## squad143 (Apr 8, 2008)

Thinking a wirecore will save you if you're operating a saw in a "dangerous" manner is like believing a seatbelt will automatically save you while driving a car hazardously.

However, in either case, you stand a better chance with some sort of protection than not.


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## Nailsbeats (Apr 8, 2008)

(WLL) said:


> i think your airwalks are bigger then your feet and im sure your mouth is bigger then your brain. get the cheese outa yer head dude, its its making you dizzy




WLL, I am sorry for saying that to you. That aint me, it was pure anger, not professional or respectful. I apologize man to man and hope you accept.


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## HolmenTree (Apr 9, 2008)

(WLL) said:


> are u putting notches in most of your stem cuts?



Oh for sure ,just like falling a tree on the ground only your 30,40,50+ feet up.
When rigging down sections of trunk wood ,tipping the piece over on its notched hinge wood is alot easier then just a slash for a notch. Also aiming a top to fall in a exact direction is only possible by a proper notch and using your felling sights on your saw to guide it.

Control is all in the apex of the notch and hingewood.


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## (WLL) (Apr 9, 2008)

Nailsbeats said:


> WLL, I am sorry for saying that to you. That aint me, it was pure anger, not professional or respectful. I apologize man to man and hope you accept.


its all good, i accept and completely understand


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## (WLL) (Apr 9, 2008)

HolmenTree said:


> Oh for sure ,just like falling a tree on the ground only your 30,40,50+ feet up.
> When rigging down sections of trunk wood ,tipping the piece over on its notched hinge wood is alot easier then just a slash for a notch. Also aiming a top to fall in a exact direction is only possible by a proper notch and using your felling sights on your saw to guide it.
> 
> Control is all in the apex of the notch and hingewood.


 well said. i completely understand and your answer is good too me, but i just had ta ask


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## Nailsbeats (Apr 9, 2008)

Thanks WLL.


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