# toe spikes



## SteveBullman (Jan 8, 2009)

Hi, can anyone tell me if any of the american vendors sell competition toe spikes? i think i heard someone say they were available in the states. the only ones ive seen in the uk are homemade.

thanks


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## tomtrees58 (Jan 8, 2009)

:monkey: ouch tom trees


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## jomoco (Jan 8, 2009)

These guys should be able to locate a manufacturer for yu Steve.

http://www.poleclimbing.org.uk/

They look like modified cycling shoes to me.

I've had silly thoughts of making a pair of toe spikes that would latch onto my wesco's, but I want them to swivel up and lock into safety housing on the boots lower tongue. Lock down to climb, lock up to trim. It needs a steel receptor plate on the lower front soul of the boots toe.

I think copying a cat's claw with thick spring grade steel would work and do far less damage to the bark and cambium than traditional tree gaffs.

It would be a neat project requiring a boot experts help.

jomoco


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## jomoco (Jan 8, 2009)

Kinda sorta like this.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jan 9, 2009)

They all look like modified OEM gaffs

These are from the Hayward festival "way up nort der hey"

http://www.lumberjackworldchampionships.com/competitors/photos/D KNUTSON

(_I had that as an IMG, but the file is HUGE! Dial-uper's wuold be hating on me for that._)

http://www.lumberjackworldchampionships.com/competitors/pole_climbers.php

There was a vendor a few years back with an articulated gaff, it had 2 spikes on the instep, went nowhere.


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## SteveBullman (Jan 9, 2009)

thanks for the replies guys. the most poplular design over here seems to be with a pair of football/rugby boots.....plate screwed into the front stud holes and a gaff welded to this....then a gas strut out of a car trunk running from the plate up to the leg pads. fabricating isnt my thing or i'd try knocking them up myself!


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## Norwayclimber (Jan 9, 2009)

How about a pair of these? http://www.raveltik.cz/product/capoeira/
will need som cutting and filing to suit poleclimbing though


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## Nailsbeats (Jan 9, 2009)

Hayward is in my back yard, so I'll be at the lumberjack shows this year. I want to snag some Stihl shirts and eyeball those comp. spikes. 

Need to get the lowdown and buy some or build some. I never understood that competition though, a lumberjack that runs up a tree and falls down is a dead lumberjack. :monkey:


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## SteveBullman (Jan 9, 2009)

no falling in the uk, its all belayed. from a spectators point of view that sucks! watching those guys fall down is more impressive than watching them go up!


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jan 9, 2009)

Nailsbeats said:


> Need to get the lowdown and buy some or build some. I never understood that competition though, a lumberjack that runs up a tree and falls down is a dead lumberjack. :monkey:





SteveBullman said:


> no falling in the uk, its all belayed.



I think he is referring to the "combat" dismount they do onto the pads. I always thought it was cheating.

Yall like the electric tape strapping in the big pic?


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## Metals406 (Jan 9, 2009)

jomoco said:


> These guys should be able to locate a manufacturer for yu Steve.
> 
> http://www.poleclimbing.org.uk/
> 
> ...



So you would use toe spikes for work? I'm not a climber, so I don't know... But, aren't toe gaffs for racing on clean, barkless poles, and ankle gaffs for tree work?


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## Blakesmaster (Jan 9, 2009)

Metals406 said:


> So you would use toe spikes for work? I'm not a climber, so I don't know... But, aren't toe gaffs for racing on clean, barkless poles, and ankle gaffs for tree work?



That's what I was thinking. Seems you could move faster but it would be hard to set the spikes deep enough for safety.


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## Metals406 (Jan 9, 2009)

Blakesmaster said:


> That's what I was thinking. Seems you could move faster but it would be hard to set the spikes deep enough for safety.



I'll clarify, that I have climbed before (I'm just not a pro climber)... But that was rigging for logging... Which is waaaay different than what you tree guys do. And we had these old a$$ pair of ankle gaffs, [email protected] things would dig in to your legs like a sum b1tch.


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## (WLL) (Jan 14, 2009)

Metals406 said:


> So you would use toe spikes for work? I'm not a climber, so I don't know... But, aren't toe gaffs for racing on clean, barkless poles, and ankle gaffs for tree work?


it wood be extremely hard to stand on your toes for longer than a quick run up the pole, in a removal i do a lot of pushing logs and id be limited cause weak ankles.


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## jomoco (Jan 15, 2009)

(WLL) said:


> it wood be extremely hard to stand on your toes for longer than a quick run up the pole, in a removal i do a lot of pushing logs and id be limited cause weak ankles.



That's the whole idea WLL, to run straight up to your tie in point and retract them.

Anyone who tells you that ISA certified arborists and treeworkers don't use gaffs to prune big eucs in CA is either lying through his teeth, or works for a top notch company.

It's a true dilemma for a tree biz owner to risk his average climbers safety for quality and production quotas. Reality sets in, and he looks the other way for higher production rates and profits, unless his client is educated and knowing, then they usually sub to someone like me that charges twice as much as their must spike climbers at height.

How much damage would a 300 pound cat do running up a big smooth barked 150 foot euc?

jomoco


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## Nailsbeats (Jan 15, 2009)

The old spike or no spike diliema. I find it very interesting when guys get on their high horse and talk down to others about it. The holier than thou scolding approach. 

I just learned to rope climb about a year ago and choose what I rope and what I spike, not necessarily based on whether its a prune or removal. I agree 100% that you shouldn't spike a prune job, but I know thats not always what really happens. I don't always spike a removal either. Comments like yours Jomoco make it even more obvious that it isn't just me.

I don't find rope climbing to be hard. I enjoy it and am confident in my abilities, just as much as on spikes. It's more gear intensive, especially when going to an SRT setup, takes some tricks, but's it's still tree climbing.

Not intended to derail anything, just thinking on the Forum again. Good day guys!


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## Metals406 (Jan 15, 2009)

Nailsbeats said:


> The old spike or no spike diliema. I find it very interesting when guys get on their high horse and talk down to others about it. The holier than thou scolding approach.
> 
> I just learned to rope climb about a year ago and choose what I rope and what I spike, not necessarily based on whether its a prune or removal. I agree 100% that you shouldn't spike a prune job, but I know thats not always what really happens. I don't always spike a removal either. Comments like yours Jomoco make it even more obvious that it isn't just me.
> 
> ...



Nails, is there something to be said about having a 'cat-like' boot claw to aid in rope climbing? I don't climb, so I wouldn't know?

Either way, I like Jomoco's idea... Almost James Bondish. We both fab, so I know you would like making something like that.

An aluminum setup, that slips over the boot's toe, and is bolted to the boot sole. The claw could be made out of 5160 (or similar), and click back out of the way. Almost like a Velociraptor claw.

Like he was saying, a climbing aid, not something to rely on without a rope ascent setup.


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## Nailsbeats (Jan 15, 2009)

Metals406 said:


> Nails, is there something to be said about having a 'cat-like' boot claw to aid in rope climbing? I don't climb, so I wouldn't know?
> 
> Either way, I like Jomoco's idea... Almost James Bondish. We both fab, so I know you would like making something like that.
> 
> ...




I think it would be just killer. You could wear a Pantin on your boot and still rope climb with caulks and the custom toe extension. One problem though, it would pretty much be the considered the same as spiking, still digging into the cambium. I do believe it would function well, especially on those slippery days.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jan 15, 2009)

Nailsbeats said:


> The old spike or no spike diliema. I find it very interesting when guys get on their high horse and talk down to others about it. The holier than thou scolding approach.
> 
> *Not intended to derail anything*, just thinking on the Forum again. Good day guys!



Train wreck!

How is it holier then thou to deride someone who hires to care for property but does it in a manner that will cause more harm?



> Anyone who tells you



Blair's Oakman/eucman argument. 

I understand that the euc work is an industry unto itself in some areas, those and some other fast growing exotics that "need" to be hacked back every few years. I guess once a tree has been improperly treated, it needs to be maintained in a certain way on a regular basis. Just like topping and round-overs.


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## Nailsbeats (Jan 15, 2009)

I'm not gonna bite John, for the well being of the thread.


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## jomoco (Jan 15, 2009)

I'm of the opinion that a set of trident 3 pronged toe claws would only damage the bark in the vast majority of tree species, and hardly ever actually pierce the cambium itsef.

I doubt even 500 pound cats disturb the cambium on the trees they climb.

I believe that retractable toe spikes have a future in commercial treecare.

jomoco


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jan 17, 2009)

This is mountain lion marking







http://www.wildernesscollege.com/mountain-lion-tracks.html


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## DK_stihl (Jan 17, 2009)

*climbing*



Nailsbeats said:


> The old spike or no spike diliema. I find it very interesting when guys get on their high horse and talk down to others about it. The holier than thou scolding approach.
> 
> I just learned to rope climb about a year ago and choose what I rope and what I spike, not necessarily based on whether its a prune or removal. I agree 100% that you shouldn't spike a prune job, but I know thats not always what really happens. I don't always spike a removal either. Comments like yours Jomoco make it even more obvious that it isn't just me.
> 
> ...



Free climbing requires no gear!


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## Bigbrass1's (Jan 17, 2009)

Any toe spikes are usaully custom made from a set of regular gaffs. The shank is cut and metal added to move the gaff to the ball of the foot.


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## Metals406 (Jan 17, 2009)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> This is mountain lion marking
> 
> 
> 
> ...



LOL... Obviously that's quite different than a cat climbing. You aught to see what my 10 lb. house cat can do to a piece of wood when it's sharpening it's claws.


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## Nailsbeats (Jan 17, 2009)

DK_stihl said:


> Free climbing requires no gear!



So what is the correlation to my quote?


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## DK_stihl (Jan 17, 2009)

*free climbing*



Nailsbeats said:


> So what is the correlation to my quote?



Not really a direct correlation, but I know in the past you have drawn flak for free climbing, so I thought that it was funny when your talked about amounts of gear. Didn't I just see a pic of you limb walking with no gear?


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## Nailsbeats (Jan 17, 2009)

DK_stihl said:


> Not really a direct correlation, but I know in the past you have drawn flak for free climbing, so I thought that it was funny when your talked about amounts of gear. Didn't I just see a pic of you limb walking with no gear?



I was undoing a pull rope on a tree that was on the ground. Open your eyes a little more, things aren't always as they seem.


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## oldirty (Jan 17, 2009)

DK_stihl said:


> Not really a direct correlation, but I know in the past you have drawn flak for free climbing, so I thought that it was funny when your talked about amounts of gear. Didn't I just see a pic of you limb walking with no gear?



if he could walk up a tree like that then i need to find a new job. lol


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