# Milled a little Juniper today.



## redprospector (Oct 27, 2007)

My old mill has been sitting idle for a little over a year. Dusted her off today and she sprang back to life (gotta love those VW engines  ).
I've given some advice on here about bandsaw mills, but I've never proved I even had one. So here are a few pic's of what we did today. 
We are milling 1x4 & 1x6 Juniper to make V-tongue & groove panneling from for our "never ending remodel".

Andy


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## woodshop (Oct 28, 2007)

redprospector said:


> My old mill has been sitting idle for a little over a year. Dusted her off today and she sprang back to life (gotta love those VW engines  ).


VW engine, interesting... is that a home made mill? Used to rebuild them, but sold my last VW engine and tranny few years ago. Still have a few part in boxes stashed somewhere. Curious what kind of power transmission to the bandmill does it have?


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## Sprig (Oct 28, 2007)

Cool rig there redprospector, nice logs too, man I do love the smell of juniper.
When our cat was still around I'd get my milling buddies to save me some of the sawdust and put a handful into an old sock and tuck it under her bed, its supposed to help drive fleas away, never really knew if it worked or not but it sure smelled better than aux-du-kitty-cat  apparently good for keeping moths out of the woolens too (like cedar and a few other aromatics), but I haven't tested that.



Serge


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## MikeInParadise (Oct 28, 2007)

Thanks for the mill pictures. VW engine brings back memories!




woodshop said:


> VW engine, interesting... is that a home made mill? Used to rebuild them, but sold my last VW engine and tranny few years ago. Still have a few part in boxes stashed somewhere. Curious what kind of power transmission to the bandmill does it have?



I too have a history with the old VW engines.

When I was 14 years old I wanted an old beater car to drive in the bush trails. My mom did not want to let me have one but my Dad told her, unknown to me, that he would let me buy an old car but would make sure that the engine was shot and he was sure that I would never be able to get it running so she would not have to worry. I bought a 1960 VW for $50 with sure enough a shot engine (Ran but knocking like crazy). 

Within a year the engine had been split apart, crankshaft milled,couple of new rod, bearings, rings, valves done etc. I cut 14 inches out of the Body pan and narrowed parts of and I installed an Irving fiberglass body(Still have a scar on my leg from being stupid enough to have my leg under the body pan while welding it, but hey I was 14!). 

Two years later when I got my drivers license and could drive it on the road I had taken out the 1300cc stock engine and replaced it with a hot-rodded 1800cc engine from a VW van.

Ah the good old days! Never under estimate your kids!


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## redprospector (Oct 28, 2007)

woodshop said:


> VW engine, interesting... is that a home made mill? Used to rebuild them, but sold my last VW engine and tranny few years ago. Still have a few part in boxes stashed somewhere. Curious what kind of power transmission to the bandmill does it have?



Yeah, she's home made. I built it about 10 years ago, I didn't want to let go of the money to buy a mill that would do what I wanted so I built it. It's still not really finished, and if I were to count my time & welder at 15.00 per hour with all the materials I probably could have bought one.:bang: But since I have more time than money (or sence) I guess it's still cheap. 
Power transmission is pretty simple. I had a machine shop build a plate with the same bolt pattern as the flywheel (clutch), and had them center & ballance a 1 1/2" shaft about 12" long on it, put on pully's for hyd. pump and blade drive, then a carrier berring on the end. The blade drive has an idler to engage the blade.

Andy


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## redprospector (Oct 28, 2007)

Sprig said:


> Cool rig there redprospector, nice logs too, man I do love the smell of juniper.
> When our cat was still around I'd get my milling buddies to save me some of the sawdust and put a handful into an old sock and tuck it under her bed, its supposed to help drive fleas away, never really knew if it worked or not but it sure smelled better than aux-du-kitty-cat  apparently good for keeping moths out of the woolens too (like cedar and a few other aromatics), but I haven't tested that.
> 
> 
> ...



The juniper is about all we have here that's worth anything, I've been selling Pine & Fir logs for $200 a thousand (and glad to get it). Most folks just cut juniper for firewood, but milled I can get between 3 & 4 dollars a bd ft.
It doe's pretty good at keeping most insects at bay, except ant's & cock roaches, and I too love that smell.

Andy


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## redprospector (Oct 28, 2007)

Here are a few more pic's.
First is The Boss helping with flitches.





Here is what we did in a couple hours, 1x4 & 1x6 and a few flitches out of small logs.





Operator's view.





Andy


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## woodshop (Oct 29, 2007)

Nice job building that mill... thanks for showing us those. If I was closer I'd like to come over and take a closer look.


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## spencerhenry (Nov 12, 2007)

that log on the mill sure doesnt look like the juiper we have around here. what do you have there in new mexico. around here we have rocky mountain juniper with its shaggy gray bark. there are several kinds one seed, two seed, rocky mountain, utah, and maybe a couple more. we also have eastern red cedar which has a bark more similiar to what you are cutting.


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## woodshop (Nov 12, 2007)

spencerhenry said:


> that log on the mill sure doesnt look like the juiper we have around here. what do you have there in new mexico. around here we have rocky mountain juniper with its shaggy gray bark. there are several kinds one seed, two seed, rocky mountain, utah, and maybe a couple more. we also have eastern red cedar which has a bark more similiar to what you are cutting.



Names differ from region to region. What locals call "gum" here is called tupelo down south. One of the most confusing would be ironwood. There are dozens of species called ironwood here in the US, and worldwide many more. So it all depends where you live. Only way to really ID a tree for certain is use it's scientific name. Osage-apple, mock orange, hedge, hedge-apple, horse-apple, hedge ball, bois d'arc, bodark, bodart... they are all Maclura pomifera... what we call osage orange here in the east.


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## Adkpk (Nov 12, 2007)

spencerhenry said:


> that log on the mill sure doesnt look like the juiper we have around here. what do you have there in new mexico. around here we have rocky mountain juniper with its shaggy gray bark. there are several kinds one seed, two seed, rocky mountain, utah, and maybe a couple more. we also have eastern red cedar which has a bark more similiar to what you are cutting.



My thoughts also. Along with, cool VW powered band mill. Can we get some feedback on the botanical name on that log. Does it smell like cedar, (which is really juniper in some cases)? Don't hesitate to post more pics.


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## redprospector (Nov 12, 2007)

I have no idea what the botanical name is, around here it's just called juniper, or alligator bark juniper. It's verry aromatic, we sticker stacked about 300 bd. ft. in the house and the whole house smells like a cedar closet. 
I am working on a job that has quite a bit of "juniper" on it, I'll try to get a picture of a tree. Maybe one of you can come up with the botanical name.

Andy


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## Adkpk (Nov 13, 2007)

redprospector said:


> I have no idea what the botanical name is, around here it's just called juniper, or alligator bark juniper. It's verry aromatic, we sticker stacked about 300 bd. ft. in the house and the whole house smells like a cedar closet.
> I am working on a job that has quite a bit of "juniper" on it, I'll try to get a picture of a tree. Maybe one of you can come up with the botanical name.
> 
> Andy



That's it. If it smells real aromatic then it's the same juniper we have here. We don't have a variety that has smooth bark like that. Try to post some pics of the v grooving and other amendments to those slabs, sounds interesting.


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## Sprig (Nov 13, 2007)

redprospector said:


> I have no idea what the botanical name is, around here it's just called juniper, or alligator bark juniper. It's verry aromatic, we sticker stacked about 300 bd. ft. in the house and the whole house smells like a cedar closet.
> I am working on a job that has quite a bit of "juniper" on it, I'll try to get a picture of a tree. Maybe one of you can come up with the botanical name.
> 
> Andy


Don't stack it in da house! Trust me, esp. if ya gots young'uns or other small small pets, or asthma, allergies, etc. etc., the 'aromatic' woods can be quite toxic (its why bugs won't eat yer wool in a cedar box eh). Just a word of knowledgable caution, seriously. NS.



Serge

Small edit> And fer sure be wearing a mask when cuttin', one of our nicer smelling cedars (yellow) has microscopic barbed fibers and about a year or two till cancer-type action, the cedar imbeds in your lungs, the toxins will eventually kill you, and not nicely, its the natural creosote. Just another aspect of workin' safe guys, really.


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## redprospector (Nov 13, 2007)

Sprig said:


> Don't stack it in da house! Trust me, esp. if ya gots young'uns or other small small pets, or asthma, allergies, etc. etc., the 'aromatic' woods can be quite toxic (its why bugs won't eat yer wool in a cedar box eh). Just a word of knowledgable caution, seriously. NS.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



We are not living in the house during the remodel, it was pretty extensive. And there's nothing worse than trying to remodel a house that you are living in. I have found it best, if possible, to leave any wood you're using for flooring or panneling in the house it will be installed in for a while before installing.
As for toxisity.......well I never thought about that too much and I've been working in this juniper for years. I'm not afraid of death, but I don't want to do anything to rush it either. I will take your advice and dawn a mask while cutting. I am old enough that I have realized my mortality.

Andy


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## redprospector (Nov 13, 2007)

Adrpk said:


> That's it. If it smells real aromatic then it's the same juniper we have here. We don't have a variety that has smooth bark like that. Try to post some pics of the v grooving and other amendments to those slabs, sounds interesting.



I'll try to get a good pic of the bark. It's anything but smooth, it looks like the scales on an alligator's back.
Pic's won't happen tomorrow, my grandson is in the hospital and that takes priority over going to work.

Andy


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## Sprig (Nov 14, 2007)

Sorry to hear about your grandson redprospector, hope it all turns out okay for everyone.

Thought I'd add this toxicity link here, yes I noticed juniper isn't on the list, but many other woods are and the article is pretty good> http://www.gvwg.ca/docs/Articles/WoodToxicity.htm
According to this set of studies juniper does not appear to be as reactive an irritant as other cedar-type species, but regardless all wood dusts should be avoided as best as possible, link here> http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache...f+woods+info+juniper&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=7&gl=ca
And a bit more for the terminally curious (that'd be me at this hour), juniper study links and biology> http://juniper.oregonstate.edu/bibliography/index.php?t=li&abc=t]

Gah! time fer bed!


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## redprospector (Nov 15, 2007)

Ok, I finally went back to work today and got a couple of pictures of a Juniper to see if it's similar to what you have, and if anyone can come up with the botanical name.
















Andy


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## vamtjewboy (Nov 16, 2007)

*cedar toxicity!?*

i just cut some cedar. man, i breathed it a lot..big deep breaths...ahhhh, what a wonderful smell! crap, u have me worried. is yellow cedar the only one that is really dangerous? mine had pink/red inside with yellowish sap wood. i'm going to go to the wood toxicity link and check it out..but more info would be appriciated SPRIG. i was planning on making closet shelves and walls with this cedar lumber. thanks -nick in va


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## Adkpk (Nov 16, 2007)

redprospector said:


> Ok, I finally went back to work today and got a couple of pictures of a Juniper to see if it's similar to what you have, and if anyone can come up with the botanical name.



Looks like cryptomeria japonica. If the needles don't stick you when you touch it then it's usually not juniper. If its crypromeria then it's cedar. True cedar. Juniper is also cedar as a log but not as a tree. Nice looking tree why is tagged for removal?


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## woodshop (Nov 16, 2007)

redprospector said:


> Ok, I finally went back to work today and got a couple of pictures of a Juniper to see if it's similar to what you have, and if anyone can come up with the botanical name.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Interesting bark... here in east we call that alligator bark for obvious reasons, and up in NE, there are only two common trees that have bark like that, persimmon and older gum trees. I am sure your tree is neither of those, as it does look like one of the junipers.


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## redprospector (Nov 16, 2007)

Adrpk said:


> Looks like cryptomeria japonica. If the needles don't stick you when you touch it then it's usually not juniper. If its crypromeria then it's cedar. True cedar. Juniper is also cedar as a log but not as a tree. Nice looking tree why is tagged for removal?



This is a State Forestry job and for some reason not known by me they mark leave trees with blue paint. It get's confusing. One of my first State Forestry jobs was marked this way, I sent a couple of guy's out to start cutting and they cut the trees marked with blue (duh). The State had to come out and remark a couple of acres, and were not happy. 

Andy


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## redprospector (Nov 16, 2007)

woodshop said:


> Interesting bark... here in east we call that alligator bark for obvious reasons, and up in NE, there are only two common trees that have bark like that, persimmon and older gum trees. I am sure your tree is neither of those, as it does look like one of the junipers.



I'm sure it's a Juniper, I'm just going to have to do a little homework to make sure which one.

Andy


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## smithie55 (Nov 16, 2007)

*Western Juniper*

*Juniperus occidentalis*
identified by Hooker 1838
Common Names
Western, Sierra or yellow juniper; yellow or western red cedar (Peattie 1950). 













Many are nearly 500 years old.
Most if not all main trunks are narled and twisted and are used to create some very beautiful, unique, rustic furniture.


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## TNMIKE (Nov 18, 2007)

*Nice looking mill*

Ive never seen one that used a VW engine. I assume yourve got power to spare...


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## redprospector (Nov 18, 2007)

TNMIKE said:


> Ive never seen one that used a VW engine. I assume yourve got power to spare...



Yep, plenty of power. I went with the VW because it's more cost effective than a big Kohler or Onan, and very easy to work on. In the last 10 years the price of parts have gone up, but so has everything else and I haven't needed many parts. It's pretty easy on fuel too. If you empty the 6 gallon boat tank I have on it, you've put in a pretty good day.

Andy


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## smokechase II (Nov 18, 2007)

*Juniper identification*

Red:

Juniper does have a berry that is actually a cone. They are typically up to 1/4 inch in dia. and a bluish/green in color. Look for those although not every tree will have those.

The pics you've posted sure seem to be a cedar or false cedar and not a juniper.

Juniper and cedar are closely related and both very aromatic. 
I would not have any concern about having either juniper or cedar woods in my home.

I would have concerns and take precautions regarding any sawdust inhalation.


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## smokechase II (Nov 18, 2007)

*I stand corrected*

http://www.naturesongs.com/vvplants/alligatorjuniper.html

Red:

Sorry, you are correct. Note the (sic) berries in one of the photos.


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## redprospector (Nov 18, 2007)

Thank's Smokechase II,
That's our Juniper (Juniperus deppeana).
I'll be saving that site.

Andy


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## redprospector (Nov 21, 2007)

I spent a little time in the last few day's straightening the edges of the 1x6's, and started putting the T&G on them today. With only a table saw & a router table is a hard way to make panneling, but I think it will be worth it in the end.
Here's a couple of picture's.











Andy


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## dustytools (Nov 21, 2007)

redprospector said:


> I spent a little time in the last few day's straightening the edges of the 1x6's, and started putting the T&G on them today. With only a table saw & a router table is a hard way to make panneling, but I think it will be worth it in the end.
> Here's a couple of picture's.
> 
> 
> ...



Very nice looking paneling!!! The finished product of doing something "The hard way" is very satisfying to me as well.


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