# Rope questions



## jaymay75 (Jun 10, 2004)

I bought this rope the other day, before I started reading on this forum. Is this decent rope, or is it junk. It might be going back.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=47833

Also, what type of rope should I be looking at. Best bang for the buck. Mainly used for pull lines for trees. I probably won't be cutting anything over too big (over 30 inches) but I would like to have a good all around rope. 

I'm also looking for a good pully (snatch block?) and a sling. Anyone know of any deals for something this. thanks for the help.


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## My like trees (Jun 10, 2004)

Poly rope is not good rope to use in tree work as far as all around rope. 300 ft is too much rope. 150 is pretty good for most work. 1/2 arbour plex is what I use.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Jun 10, 2004)

Arporplex is a good climbing rope, at a great price. There might be better choices for bull ropes, but most ropes designed as tree work ropes will be better than your choice. Sherrill, a sponser here usually has prices as low or lower than others. Get a cataloge from them. It's informative and you can see most of tools that are industry standards. If you are patient, check out their online cataloge, you won't learn near as much as from the hardcopy though. Links from this site abound.


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## Treemonkey1000 (Jun 10, 2004)

*Slick stuff*

That poly stuff tends to be too slick to hang onto either by hand or say with a prussick to pull with. Also putting knots in it is a pain. Just my 2 cents worth. 150' does tend to be a good length. Remember to inspect the rope each time. Retire it if in doubt


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## BigJohn (Jun 10, 2004)

Arborplex a good climbing rope? Where do you live? I wouldn't use that crap for a tire swing. This is the 2004, that sh1t is out dated like BestGM's daddy. 

I wouldn't settle for anything less than some new england safety blue or some true blue just for rigging.


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## Burnham (Jun 10, 2004)

As you suspect, the poly is junk. It has minimal abrasion resistance, very low uv resistance, is impossible to knot, and difficult to hold. It's only redeeming quality is price, and as with many things, you get what you pay for with rope.


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## murphy4trees (Jun 10, 2004)

C'mon Big Jon,
You know old retired arborplex makes a good tire swing!!!


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## Ax-man (Jun 10, 2004)

Big John, 

Not everyone wants to shell out the extra bucks for the better rigging and climbing lines. The thread starter just wanted a good all around pull rope, he sounds like a part timer instead of full timer. 

Mass isn't steering him in the wrong direction.

You have chill out a little my friend, there are alot of people on this site that don't require the ultimate in gear to get their work done.

Larry


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## roachy (Jun 10, 2004)

Ax-man maybe John is a little excitable but Arbor plex ,perhaps this person is trying to learn and get better that rope will just frustrate most.I under stand it is inexpensive and if you are going to pull tress over with it then great buy a spool.But to climb with its the worst .Just my opinion but hey what do I know


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## BigJohn (Jun 10, 2004)

I say what I say with no anger towards anyone. When lives and costly equipment and property are at stake there are no cheap substatutes. Why not take full advantage of what is available. I agree there is a lot crap out there that can't replace hard work and good technique. Such as the OOB or better known as the Pantin. OOB meaning out of breath. 

Spend 20 or 30 more and get a good rope its just money not someones life. So you go week without a case beer or some smokes. That stuff will kill ya.


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## Stumper (Jun 10, 2004)

Jaymay-You got a decent utilty rope for the price-but as already stated it is really a poor rope for tree work. Despite Big John's near omniscience he is full of prunes about Arborplex. It isn't the best climbing rope but it isn't junk.-Some of us remember when it WAS the very best climbing rope ever made-they've actually improved it since then---- but a lot of stronger and better handling ropes have been introduced. I don't think that "no longer the best" relegates a product to the category of "crap".:angel:


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## BigJohn (Jun 10, 2004)

I do remember those days. I can remember having to climb on three strand and complaining why cant they get us Arbor plex. For me the arborplex just wouldn't hold up to the day after day abuse I put ropes through. And for climbing it would really slow me down. 
I can't say enough about the Fly. It has definately increased my productivity. My Fly ropes have all about worn out. I had to go back to some of my 16 strand new england for the larger prunes. I'll have to save up and get some new ones.


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## jaymay75 (Jun 10, 2004)

Yeah, I took a closer look at that rope today and its crap. It can't hold a knot worth anything. I'd keep it if it could, but no go. I'm sending it back. Get this, I unravel 30 feet of it, and find that one of the strands is cut all of the way through. Talk about Quality control. You get what you pay for is right. 

I am a part timer, but I can't stand working with junk. I'd like to order some rope form that Sherill site. Whats the best to get for the money. It needs to be pretty strong

For the most part, I'll just be using it for rigging trees. But My father has a electric cranking pully, its used to pull big wire through conduit. It also does a great job of ripping small stumps out of the ground. Pretty cool to watch too. Wrap the rope around the pully a couple times and stand back and flip the switch. Pulls them right out

So what would be the best deal for something like this. Need something strong with good grip. thanks again for the help


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## Stumper (Jun 10, 2004)

The Arborplex is the cheapest that Sherrill sells (I think) it is really a good rope but as Big John alluded to-it won't wear as long as something like Safety Blue (which is a GREAT rope). If you are only buying a rigging rope and cost is a concern you might consider Pro-Master 3 strand. The new Safety Pro12 would likely make a great rigging line but I have no experience with it.


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## TheTreeSpyder (Jun 10, 2004)

3/4# of material to get the same strength as our 1/2#, about half strength of nylon/polyester i think.

Harder knotting, slippery/more wraps, doesn't take dynamic loading well, doesn't take the heat well of friction(about 1/2 the heat tolerance) of lowering and even knotting, kinda harder/more brittle fiber; really stiffer in freezing temps i think.

3 strand design must use larger sheave/branch size for same strength compared to braid, then even more for increased rope diameter of 3/4", then even more for increased stiffness of line.

Professional tree lines are laid and combed to not snag and tear up as much in the tests of running over branches etc. that normal lines would fray at in normal tree work.

i think Samson ArboPlex and the matching Wall ArboPlus both have the poly fibers in them as hamburger helper to give weaker line in 1/2# package, so TrueBlue is stronger, even though dyed 12 strand from same company. i think the stiff, prickly, plasticky rough fibers on the surface that stick out busted are the poly fibers in older ArborPlex etc.

Or something like that
:alien:


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## rbtree (Jun 10, 2004)

While I don't much like Arborplex, I just got 600 feet of the 1/2 inch. Sold most of it, kept 150. I kinda prefer the NE Ropes Treeline, which has a softer lay, versus the too stiff Arborplex. But as it is stiff, it wears like iron, certainly longer than the Treeline (now replaced with the nicer cored 12 strand-but pricier). Sorry Stumper, but that's the truth. I have had some old stuff for 14 years, a bit of it left that was old back then. Even with badly abraded spots, i can still recall it breaking only a couple times. One was when I had a contractor hop on his tractor to pull over a tree. He started pulling before I started the backcut. Hmmm, I think the rope broke, my memory's fuzzy.

I only use it for a light rigging line, and only buy it if I'm short on the right length of retired climb lines. Hardly ever climbed on it, cant stand it for its stiff kinky qualities, poor knot tying and holding.....


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## NeTree (Jun 11, 2004)

ArborPlex is rated even less than that crap he got off of Harbor Freight (5400 vs 7650). And for what it's worth, I think ArborPlex is complete crap too. Period.

Sorry, but this is one place where going cheap NEVER pays. If a cheap saw quits, WGAF. If a cheap rope breaks... EVERYONE'S FUC*ED.


Jay, spend some dough, get yourself a GOOD bullrope. It may cost you now, but it's cheaper than having a lesser quality rope break, ain't it? And of course, it'll last you awhile.


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## Stumper (Jun 11, 2004)

I won't argue RB. I personally have never worn out a piece of Arborplex-Though I did climb on it for several years. Since Big John said it didn't hold up as well I assumed he was correct-for the way he abuses ropes-I never ran it fast over natural crotches. My own experience with Safety Blue has been that it is a very long wearing rope with a nice hand. I like my Yellow Jacket but I had more visible wear on it in 6 months than I got on Safety Blue in 3 years. It is nice to have so many choices. 

Anyone have any experience with Tree Pro red?


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Jun 11, 2004)

Big John, as usual, your full of it. You think fly outlasts arporplex? Wrong. Will a beginner be able to tell the difference, not likely. In fact the fatter arborplex will be easier to grab. Will he be unsafe climbing on arborplex because of the breaking strength? No. I do not know of one death caused by a modern climbing rope, in good condition, failing do to the climber overloading it.
After going through a few hanks of Fly, I still climb on Blue Streak, Arborplex, and XTC once in a while. The difference is noticable, but not enough to get all worked up about.
Arborplex is a good rope at a great price. For a guy tugging trees over with a come-a-long, I'd say it's a fine choice. He might want to spend a few more bucks and get a double braid like Samson's Stable braid. He could also spend big bucks on some fancy new high modules rope like Ultra Tech.


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## SilverBlue (Jun 11, 2004)

I am not sure that jaymay is going to climb but I hope he is not thinking of buying one universal rope for both climbing and rigging as I can see him thinking that’s what some are eluding to and giving the false idea to a newbie.

Jaymay check out a few sites below and spend a few extra bucks for real gear that will do the job safely and give you value in the long run.
http://www.okarboristsupply.com/
http://www.wtsherrill.com/ 

And if you want the cheapest price try Canadian arborist supply 
http://www.canadianarboristsupplies.com/catalogue.html


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## jaymay75 (Jun 11, 2004)

Thanks for all the input. I've been looking at that Stable Braid 3/4. That pretty much looks unbreakable. How much stronger is it than the other ropes you have been talking about. How would I find out the other strength of the other ropes. Sherill writes this big article about every rope they have, but they don't tell me the most important part. How much can I load it without it screwing up my day. 

All I will be using this rope for is for pull lines. I won't be doing any climbing. Not sure if my 6'1'' 260lb frame is built for much climbing anyhow. I'm a pretty big guy, but not fat. Big is good for a lot of things, but not too efficient when 60' off of the ground. ha ha. 

Although, I'd love to climb one day. It looks really interesting. I'd love to take a class or something. Be pretty cool to be high up in a tree and be safe.


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## NickfromWI (Jun 11, 2004)

Jaymay, was that rope polyester or polypropylene? That woulda made a big difference.

love
nick


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## BigJohn (Jun 11, 2004)

I think you mike be smaller than JPS. Myself at 6'4" 215 I don't see my size slowing down so much that people talk. The size of mouth or the words that come out get people rouled up though. But thats just entertainment for me.


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## NeTree (Jun 11, 2004)

Jay? Bigger guys than you climb quite well. 



Everyone else:

Consider this in your ArborPlex argument:

Come-along in tree. Come-along can put 4,000# of tension on line. Wind picks up. Tree can easily put another 2,000# of tension on line. There's 6,000# already.

Not much of a 10:1 safety factor, is it?


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Jun 11, 2004)

If you are using 4000 pounds of pull to tip over a tree, you will want much heavier stuff than a come-a-long and 1/2" climbing rope. My work truck doesn't weigh 4000 pounds!


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## SilverBlue (Jun 11, 2004)

5/8 stablebraid is what you want, consider a splice as well and get a Sherrill steel block plus an eye sling and your all set for a long time.


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## NeTree (Jun 11, 2004)

Must be a real light work-truck... a Matchbox?


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Jun 11, 2004)

Dodge ram van. Total piece of crap, never buy a dodge. transmission needs synthetic oil change every 12000 miles and still go out after about 50,000 miles. Front end needs new parts about once a month.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Jun 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by SilverBlue _
> *5/8 stablebraid is what you want, consider a splice as well and get a Sherrill steel block plus an eye sling and your all set for a long time. *



Yeah, sounds like he needs a throw ball too.


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## jaymay75 (Jun 11, 2004)

SilverBlue,
Why the 5/8 stablebraid vs. 3/4 stablebraid when the 3/4 isn't that much more. Or is the 3/4 just overkill.


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## jaymay75 (Jun 11, 2004)

Big John, 
Where at in PA are you located?


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Jun 11, 2004)

Bigger ropes harder to pull up the tree, tie knots, wind up, and put away.
How about some Black Widow?


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## Stumper (Jun 11, 2004)

Jaymay, I wouldn't recommend 3/4 inch Stable Braid to any part-timer. It is enormously strong but also heavy and inconvenient to work with in the normal course of tree work. If you are going to lay out the $$ for Stable Braid then 1/2 in, 9/16 or 5/8 at mostwould be my choice. Regarding Eric's comments about overloading 1/2 Arborplex.-It can be done but the average tree being removed weighs less than 5K. We don't need to pick it up either,rather we want to apply a few hundred pounds of force high in the tree for steering force and to iniate folding in a proper hinge. Pulling trees should never involve shockloading. Steady pulling only. TRY to break Arborplex with a steady pull! A 3/4 ton truck with 1000 lbs loaded on the bed will break traction on a dry surface before you break the rope. I don't recommend abusing rope like that in the course of doing work but want to make a point-If you are using tag lines in reasonable ways breakage is not really a concern unless we are placing extreme pulls on extreme trees.:angel:

P.S. 3/4 inch Stable braid has the strength to brek trees but that isn' the best way to get them down.


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## BigJohn (Jun 11, 2004)

Jay, I am out here on the other side of the state near philly.


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## SilverBlue (Jun 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by jaymay75 _
> *SilverBlue,
> Why the 5/8 stablebraid vs. 3/4 stablebraid when the 3/4 isn't that much more. Or is the 3/4 just overkill. *


 As Mike says it's easier to work with and plenty strong enough. And yes do get a throw ball and some line


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## jaymay75 (Jun 11, 2004)

Sounds good. Yes I do need a throwline. Didn't even know they sold such a thing before I found this site. I've been using a heavy angle bracket and spool of tie down line (like when you go to Home Depot and they tie your load down with) which frays constantly. Actually, I made it work, but it just takes a hell of a lot longer to attach a rope, especially in pine. Also, if you get a snag, you have to watch you don't yank it back at your noggin. 


Big John, sorry about living in Philly. just kidding. My now wife (just married last month) used to live in Philly and I don't know how many times I did the Pittsburgh to Philly trip when we first started dating. If I don't ever make it to Philly again I'll die a happy man, just because of how many times I had to drive there. Although, I wouldn't mind at all if you sent me a cheesteak every now and then.


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## jaymay75 (Jun 11, 2004)

So I shouldn't be able to break 1/2 stable braid, or any other high quality rope with a truck, a come along, or that big ass electric cranking winch that my father has for pulling cables through conduit. Give that I don't shock load it or nick it, etc. 

Plus the rope can be used if I ever would want to cimb.


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## SilverBlue (Jun 11, 2004)

No sir you don't want to climb on a bull rope.Otherwise people will talk...


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Jun 11, 2004)

If you go to Samson's website, there are breaking strengths listed. 1/2" Stable braid is like 9000 pounds, if memory serves me.


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## geofore (Jun 11, 2004)

*ropes*



> _Originally posted by jaymay75 _
> *So I shouldn't be able to break 1/2 stable braid, or any other high quality rope with a truck, a come along, or that big ass electric cranking winch that my father has for pulling cables through conduit. Give that I don't shock load it or nick it, etc.
> 
> Plus the rope can be used if I ever would want to cimb. *


 
Don't mix up the rope you climb on with the rope you pull stumps with, not a good idea. Your life depends on your climbing line being in good shape. The dynamic loads you put on your pulling rope weaken it and it's not easy to tell when you overload it too much and tear it up inside. Keep one rope to climb on seperate from all the ropes you use to do other things. Inspect your ropes every time you use them.


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## seanlarkin (Jun 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by jaymay75 _
> *Sherrill writes this big article about every rope they have, but they don't tell me the most important part. How much can I load it without it screwing up my day.*



I just added the tensile strengths. 

-Sean


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## jaymay75 (Jun 11, 2004)

*Re: ropes*



> _Originally posted by geofore _
> *Don't mix up the rope you climb on with the rope you pull stumps with, not a good idea. Your life depends on your climbing line being in good shape. The dynamic loads you put on your pulling rope weaken it and it's not easy to tell when you overload it too much and tear it up inside. Keep one rope to climb on seperate from all the ropes you use to do other things. Inspect your ropes every time you use them. *



Gotcha...


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## jaymay75 (Jun 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by seanlarkin _
> *I just added the tensile strengths.
> 
> -Sean *



Ah, much better.


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## NeTree (Jun 11, 2004)

Mike, trust me- I'll never own another frigging Mopar again.  

Something for you guys to consider when talking about loading ropes- we have more experience to discern what can/can't be done.

No offense to Jay, but remember he IS new to this.


Also, I thought we selected our ropes based on SAFE WORKING LOAD, not TENSILE STRENGTH. Did this change overnight?

After all, you don't see anyone climbing on Zing-It, do you?


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## dbeck (Jun 11, 2004)

jaymay75,
If at all possible, take a weekend course (if one is available to you...tech school, arbormaster, etc.) You might dish out some cash, but what you will learn will outweigh the costs involved. If nothing else, make that drive over to philly and spend a day or two w/ bigjohn. I don't know him personally, but he seems to have the hang of this treework thing!
One thing is for sure do not ever be afraid to spend a little extra $$ for decent equip. or a little education.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Jun 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by netree _
> *Also, I thought we selected our ropes based on SAFE WORKING LOAD, not TENSILE STRENGTH. Did this change overnight?
> 
> After all, you don't see anyone climbing on Zing-It, do you? *



You can select your ropes on either. Personally, I perfer breaking strength, because you don't always know what safety ratio is being applied, when somebody else calculates working loads. I prefer to determine my own safety factors.
If you are putting 4000 pound loads on a rope, it should be bigger than 1/2". You must apply the same logic to the come-a-long too. A two ton come-a-long has a 4000 pound breaking strength and is a good match with a 1/2" rope. I've pulled on cheapo come-a-longs too hard and broke them with 1/2" rope a few times. So in that combination (1/2" rope and 2 ton come-a-long), I'd say the come-a-long is the weak link.
I'll usually take the tail of the rope and bypass the come-a-long and secure it to the anchor, in case the thing fails.


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## TheTreeSpyder (Jun 11, 2004)

i........,

i........,

o heck, i........ agree with Mike 

i'd personally make my own safety ratio, and would like the raw tensile.

A new-b(udd)ie; might find SWL recomendations more pratical, but should realize some set different ratios than others; sometimes making comparisons between devices a little more foggier; especially grabbing things from different industries etc.

Or something like that
:alien:


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jun 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Mike Maas _
> *Personally, I perfer breaking strength,*



And i look for Minimum Breaking Strength, ves Average. There can be a over 1/4 ton differanced between mbs and abs.


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## MasterBlaster (Jun 11, 2004)

The most expensive usually turns out to be the best.



I hate the Fly...


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## BigJohn (Jun 11, 2004)

Why do you hate the fly? The rigging I do with it is setting up a 16:1 set up. I don't know how it works with a tautline hitch.


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## MasterBlaster (Jun 11, 2004)

My hitch has nothing to do with it. The soft-lay properties of the Fly tend towards making the rope come alive and catching/tangling on any little piece of brush on the ground.

Great if I was spelunking, bad for treework.

Gimme a 'lil harder lay, like my trusty Safety Blue.


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## BigJohn (Jun 11, 2004)

Butch sounds like you need to review your groundman sheets with the crew. I forget isn't something on there about keeping the rope clear and no bellies in the rope? Dude you need to get them boys in check. For me I like the soft lay of the fly.


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## Climber2 (Jun 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Stumper _
> *
> Anyone have any experience with Tree Pro red? *



I used one for 6 or 7 yrs. Loved it. It was still in decent shape but retired it because of age. I was using tautline then though. I haven't tried it with a VT yet. I would like to know if anyone uses it with an advanced hitch? I use the company hi-vee now. It seems to have too much stretch for me.

Mike


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## geofore (Jun 11, 2004)

*ropes*

I invited Jay75 over, so I'll see Jaymay75 tomorrow morning and give him a hank of Blue Streak and maybe a hank of Safety Blue to try out. I can at least get him on to some 1/2" rope. I think he'll need heavier rope for the winch but it will give me a chance to show/give him the ropes and talk. I think if he sticks around and reads this site he'll learn a lot about how to avoid the Darwin Award.


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## Stumper (Jun 11, 2004)

Mike Maas, Every now and then you post something completely reasonable. On these occassions when you behave totally out of your normal character I agree with you and am overcome with awe at your great intellect and perspicuity.


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## geofore (Jun 12, 2004)

*looking?*

I got a coil of Blue Streak & a coil of Safety Blue on Tuesday and have a bit left over. I offered RAH a hank and my buddy Jim needs a hank and I have enough to give Jay75 a hank and that's it for the new rope cause I need the rest of it for my use. I broke one of Rich's ropes last week so I need to give him a replacement. Jim set up a shop for me in Butler so I don't need to take any equipment except my saddle with me when I go up to Butler, he will now have everything I need at his place, he also has lined up work. Then Jay75, he needs some one to show him the ropes. Will it lead to work or not? Don't know, but it doesn't hurt to help the new guys out. Someone got me started years ago, so I pass it on.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Jun 12, 2004)

Hey GEo, how'd you bust a rope? I mean, what dumbass thing did'ja do wrong?


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## My like trees (Jun 12, 2004)

Nice post Mike, right, dumbass, breaking a rope? Thats what happens some times. Mike I hope your joking cause that is some low end jive.


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## My like trees (Jun 12, 2004)

I geuss Big John does not like arbour plex. If only you used it you might know its prety ???? good IF YOU KNOW HOW TO USEIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I could use that poly ???? if i had to but I don't. Get the job done, thats what its all about. Its not the only rope but test after test tells me its OKAY! Whats better than actual testing?


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## rumination (Jun 12, 2004)

Yo, jive turkey! (That's right, you know who I'm talking to) Now you be the one spreadin the bad vibes. Chill out, yo! :angel:


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## MasterBlaster (Jun 12, 2004)

What mah homes said, dawg.


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## BigJohn (Jun 12, 2004)

I have climbed on it when was like 6 and it was the cats meow then. Ropes have come a long way as with climbing techniques. I guess I just spoil myself. It doesn't have to be expensive for me to like it. I really like Buckeneer ropes and they are low end. Its ust personal choice. If works for and you like then thats great. I just get the feeling some people are being a bit closed minded on this.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Jun 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by BigJohn _
> *I have climbed on it when was like 6 and it was the cats meow *




You have to remember, ropes change too in a 12 year span.


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## BigJohn (Jun 12, 2004)

Are you implying I am 18? I wish. Maybe the girls I date.


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## MasterBlaster (Jun 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by BigJohn _
> *Are you implying I am 18? I wish. Maybe the girls I date. *



You lucky dawg!


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Jun 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by BigJohn _
> *Are you implying I am 18? I wish. Maybe the girls I date. *



I doubt you get them that mature...


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## geofore (Jun 13, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Mike Maas _
> *Hey GEo, how'd you bust a rope? I mean, what dumbass thing did'ja do wrong? *



Operator error. Jeff, on the John Deere, gunned the engine as the tree started to wiggle and you know that's not good when you still have more than 6"- 8" of hinge to cut on a 100' tall backleaner. The tree tipped, wobbled and set back down on the 7900 when the rope snapped. It had a lean towards the backcut. Lost a foot and a half off the end of the rope hitched to the Deere. I wanted Slow and Easy and got gun and run. Jeff backed up, I retied the rope and he tried it slow and easy, it worked. I'm sure anyone that has had someone pull a tree with a machine has experienced an operator giving them a gun and run. I told Rich to down grade that rope and I'd give him a new one to replace it. We could have used my ropes but Rich went up to cut the left and right spars off to enable us to fit the tree in what we had for landing zone and his ropes were up there. So we used his rope. Last tree of the day, third time Jeff had ever pulled a tree over with the Deere. Not dumb, Jeff just jumped the gun as I was making the backcut. No one hurt.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Jun 13, 2004)

The old truck pull. Very dangerous, not too professional, and dumb, if you want my opinion. 
Did you participate in the truck pull thread? That was a good one, half the people said truck pull was dumb, the other half said nothing could ever go wrong.


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## TheTreeSpyder (Jun 13, 2004)

i think the portable power and anchoring wieght of the Truck Pull  is usable lightly as the gentle giant; and being familiar with lines and working carefully can easily get great results.

i think placing a Porty with a few wraps onto truck, gives adjustability to another besides gun-ho mo-fo; with ~3wraps, the line should safely slip before overloading, kinda like a mechancial fuse. Driver should be very carefull not to snap line, for they are prolly in line with it's Deadly Unleashed Force of Line Recoil 

(Actuarily, i'm legally not allowed to agree with Mike, so had to respond)


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Jun 13, 2004)

> _Originally asked by Mike Maas of Goefore_
> *
> Did you participate in the truck pull thread? *




After reveiwing the thread "Truck Pull", kindly linked by Spyder, I see you did participate. Interesting to read your posts two years ago and to see you make this mistake now.

Boy, that thread really got edited up! It 's origanal edition was much better.


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## TheTreeSpyder (Jun 13, 2004)

The growth rings on the evolution of all the branchings and intricacies of this place is like any other; different things handled differently; coddled more tenderly in the infancy to form the charachter, strength and weaknesses that now carry on the inertia of a seperate existance from all the effort input.

i think JP coulda trimed more here, less there etc.; but in the balance was "Good as Any, Better than Many" and then some. i think his heart and head were in the right places respectively, save with all disrespect a foot too high in each case!! .

i believe in free speach, but think that negativity is a force as any other, perhaps even a dis-ease. One that wishes not to die, but only change form and takes overwhelming/matching force to equalize; if not wished to roll on dancing to different forms of ugliness. So, theoretically, a lot of negativity can be a stunning waste of energy.

For, you have the force of the negativity, then the matching just to equalize to Zer0; but both parts could have been used to go forward, not backward; or chasing your own self around back to Zer0. The sum of all the pulls and pushes in a system make up it's balance or personality, each one able to throw things off a bit, especially those operating in extreme direction and/or forcefullness.

To correct off balance without going to opposite extreme, takes clean, focused intense force to and thru balanced center to target without distraction, as all ways and always i have seen this in trees, and can apply it elsewhere around me.

In a time of the one called Forrest/SpikeSupra; that caused such a stir, as to block our vision of and to the trees; i seemed to stand with him at every turn. i didn't like all of what he was/was not; but stood at the most extreme counterbalancing point of a negativity towards some folks and types as an unproductive climate to sense, civility and purpose here. Not so much for just his sake, but any that may wish to ask or speak here. Minding not so much where i stood specifically, but my affect on the total balance. Today, those extremes to either side exist not (fortunately). So, i have not a leveraged point of pull to try to pull to center target balance; so am left to the clean blown truth to power thru, without distraction.

Once again the 2 Ph sciences meet as in times of olde; and their first discovery.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Jun 13, 2004)

JPS did what he had to, I guess. That doesn't mean I didn't like the unedited version better.
Some of the editing was done by posters too.


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## geofore (Jun 13, 2004)

*truck pull*

Mike I did take part in the thread and I am aware that precautions are needed when using machines to pull ropes. If you think using machines is dumb, "What are you doing on the computer?" I don't think it is unproffessional/dumb to use machines. Not thinking about and planning for what happens next if/when things go wrong is. I had prepared for the rope to break and when it did no one was hurt and the tree did not fall the wrong way. Of the more than 3 dozen dead or dying trees taken down and a dozen trees trimmed, on this and the seven ajoining properties, no one hurt and no damage other than Rich's broken rope. It is not that I am the luckiest guy alive, I am good at what I do. Not fast, Just good at what I do.


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## murphy4trees (Jun 13, 2004)

I jsut pulled over a backleaner with a good sidelean towards the house with Big Jon yesterday.... NO vehicles involved, cause bad access to the backyard. I put up second pull line just before making the cut... IN retrospect, Jon set the rigging up right... No real chance of rope or equipment failure... IN that respect it might have wasted 15 minutes... but it made me FEEL better.... MUCH BETTER... 
IN geo's situation, a sceond line snugged up as an anchor line, could have made it possible for him to finish the backcut before calling for the pull on the Deere.
Also using the porty on a machine is a good idea, not so much as the fuse idea that Spidy mentioned, but that you know your bend ratio in the rope. Sounds like the way the rope was tied to the machine was as much the problem as poor communication, and improper training.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Jun 14, 2004)

Hey Geo, I never said I don't use machines, I just don't think the truck pull is smart. Read my comments on how I use a truck to pull over a tree in the truck pull thread. 
What happened to you is just one of many things that can go wrong.
If a technique is unreliable, it should be removed from your standard techniques used. You can argue that you only use it when it's not a critical situation, but that's like saying standing on a ladder and making a cut without being tied in is ok, if it's not likely you'll fall. Both techniques are homeowner tactics, mostly because they don't know better, hence they are unprofessional by definition.
During the course of a workday you make hundreds of choices on how to do things. I consider those who consistantly make the choices on professionalism to be the best, and those who take shortcuts every chance they get, end up...well...like this.


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## jaymay75 (Jun 14, 2004)

Many thanks to Geofore as I met him on Saturday morning to learn a couple things and pick up some great rope. He has a pretty nice shop, and a lot of good equipment and a lot of knowledge. Pretty impressed. Thanks again for the help.


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## dbeck (Jun 16, 2004)

MM,
if I used a pulley, rope and a truck to pull a skid of beer up my driveway to my garage be cause it would be waaaay to much work to carry all the cases up my driveway...would you think down on me or would you consider that acceptable creative thinking?


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## MasterBlaster (Jun 16, 2004)

You'll shake the beer up too much.


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## TheTreeSpyder (Jun 16, 2004)

Might depend on how ya do it. 3 potential pulley positions.

Load, Anchor or Truck.

Placing pulley on load, and line to anchor and truck, has a potential for 2/1 power.

Placing pulley on anchor, and line to load and truck gives no MA, 1/1 potential, but double loads anchor pulley sits on.

Placing the pulley on the truck and line connects to other 2 positions of load and anchor has a 1/2 potential, or half power, but beer would travel to your house at twice the speed of the truck.


Or something like that
:alien:


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Jun 16, 2004)

> _Originally posted by dbeck _
> *MM,
> if I used a pulley, rope and a truck to pull a skid of beer up my driveway to my garage be cause it would be waaaay to much work to carry all the cases up my driveway...would you think down on me or would you consider that acceptable creative thinking? *



Dbeck, if you were pulling beer up your driveway with a rope and a truck, I'd think nothing of it. I'd just shake my head and start thinking of ways to get invited over.

If, on the other hand, a commercial beer delivery service pulled their loads around with ropes and trucks...

See the difference?


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## Tim Gardner (Jun 17, 2004)

> _Originally posted by MasterBlaster _
> *You'll shake the beer up too much.  *



Maybe he wouldn’t shake it up too much if he locked it in 4 low and idled back real slow and easy.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Jun 17, 2004)

What if the pallet got hooked on a crack in the drive and the hole thing flipped over?
What if he let his helper drive the truck and he gave it too much gas and broke the rope, sending the whole pallet of beer sliding back down the drive, out into oncoming traffic.
How about if he got the beer up the hill and started drinking, upsetting his wife, who then proceeds to get in the truck and storm off, without knowing the beer is still attached?!?!?


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## TheTreeSpyder (Jun 17, 2004)

More likely to jam pushing than pulling i think. Slope front end like boat, place the weight more back too; then as always, be carefull....


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