# climbing techniques with a zigzag



## tree lopper (May 14, 2015)

Hey.

I know it has its haters here, but I have a zigzag. For those who also climb with it, do you use hand ascenders? If so, do you use a double hand ascender or single hand? 

I use it with a foot ascender, of course. Does anyone else use any other kit with it?

I currently use an anchor bend to terminate the rope. I know I'm supposed to use a fixed loop, and will probably go to one. The bend gets too close to the release mechanism. Does anyone use a different knot or is everyone using a zigzag using a spliced line?

Any other zigzag climbing tips welcome, thanks.


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## imagineero (May 15, 2015)

Tree loppers just spike everything don't they? No need for hand/foot ascenders there.


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## tree lopper (May 15, 2015)

I only spike on take downs. I'm an ISA certified arborist and play by the rules.

I believe all tree loppers should work to arboricultural standards. I'm currently enrolled in a Dip. Arb., by the way.

Rather than distinguishing ourselves from tree loppers, another approach is to hold that all tree loppers should work to to the standards of arborists.


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## Zale (May 16, 2015)

You shouldn't be climbing with rolling papers.


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## tree lopper (May 16, 2015)

Does *anyone* here use a zigzag to climb?


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## tree MDS (May 16, 2015)

tree lopper said:


> Does *anyone* here use a zigzag to climb?



I think its pretty much just you and another guy they banned quite a while back.


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## Zale (May 16, 2015)

tree lopper said:


> Does *anyone* here use a zigzag to climb?



Check out the Buzz. Those guys are more into their toys than here. Things are a little more old school here.


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## BC WetCoast (May 16, 2015)

I hope you're checking yours for cracks in the side plates constantly.


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## TheJollyLogger (May 16, 2015)

There's a few guys, but the lack of midline attachment just kinda killed it, plus the recalls...


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## ksvanbrunt (May 17, 2015)

I use the zigzag and really enjoy it. Haven't found any reason to use any other kit with it though. I would recommend buying a rope with a tight eye splice as it will eliminate any bulky interference with the unit itself, and it just looks and seems way more clean of a set up.

Also, a piece of info on the "tree lopper" term to the people who have commented on it, it is a term used in Australia for a tree worker. It definitely sounds like a negative name, like a tree hack, to us here in the states, but not necessarily a bad thing in Australia.


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## Carburetorless (May 17, 2015)

Tree Lopper rhymes with Tree Topper, if you're wondering.

I never liked the look of the zigzag, looks too much like something you might raise the car with.


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## Alu (May 17, 2015)

I use and like it! Eyesplice and carabiner, but may try a ropewrence and single line..


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## tree lopper (May 17, 2015)

Carburetorless said:


> Tree Lopper rhymes with Tree Topper, if you're wondering.
> 
> I never liked the look of the zigzag, looks too much like something you might raise the car with.


Carburetorless rhymes with clueless, but I make connections from real life rather than from rhymes, so I don't think there's any connection there. When it comes to climbing equipment I assess based on what expert climbers are doing, not from looks. It's all part of sanity.



Alu said:


> I use and like it! Eyesplice and carabiner, but may try a ropewrence and single line..



I must get myself an eyesplice. Do you mean you connect a carabiner to the eyesplice before connecting to the ZigZag, or that you have a carabiner on the end that connects to your harness? I don't see any advantage in doing the former. Please tell me if I'm wrong there.

I've seen talk of using a rope wrench above the zigzag. I'd like to see Petzl talk about it, too, rather than saying their product is unsuitable for SRT, unless it really is. I do understand they don't want to rate it for loading our full weight on one line but a rope wrench would overcome that, I would think.


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## Alu (May 17, 2015)

The former, just cause its fast! Why an eye splice if you can use a knot?


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## tree lopper (May 17, 2015)

Alu said:


> Why an eye splice if you can use a knot?



Yeah, I'm using a knot at the moment. I anchor hitch my climbing line to the top carabiner. It's not what Petzl instructs, though, and I can see why. The knot gets close to the release mechanism. It's not a problem when the ropes are straight but from my test climbing I find that if I get twisted mid-air then the knot gets very close to the release. 

Does it really take any more time to use a splice rather than a carabiner though, apart from the trip to the rope shop, of course? It's just a matter of getting set up properly.

There may be safe workarounds such as using a sling from the ZigZag to the climbing line but I haven't really looked at that. I know a splice can be a limitation but I reckon it's just a good excuse for another rope, and that's always welcome.


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## Alu (May 17, 2015)

I an really happy with it, and with a block on top or srt and a id in bottom anyone can lover me from the ground..
A Good feature if somthing happends.


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## Carburetorless (May 18, 2015)

tree lopper said:


> Carburetorless rhymes with clueless, but I make connections from real life rather than from rhymes, so I don't think there's any connection there. When it comes to climbing equipment I assess based on what expert climbers are doing, not from looks. It's all part of sanity.
> .



I was telling you why people were giving you hard time, but you went psycho.

Get on some meds bro.

If you want a real climbing system, get a HH.


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## tree lopper (May 18, 2015)

Carburetorless said:


> I was telling you why people were giving you hard time, but you went psycho....


Sorry if I replied too harshly to you. Frankly, the reason I use the handle tree lopper is because I compete with tree loppers in SEO, so it's to my advantage to identify as one online. My strategy is to then teach people the difference between arborists and tree loppers on my website and convince them that tree work should only be done by arborists. 

So, I'm also sorry to have given you the wrong impression about my work. I take real care for trees and prune them according to Australian Standards for our industry and also uphold my pledge to the ISA. Furthermore, I promote native species and help people to identify environmental weeds. Sometimes you have to look past a name, I guess.

Besides all that, how are tree loppers going to learn to climb spikeless if arborists won't give them the time of day? I believe we should teach those with less knowledge than ourselves rather than distancing ourselves from them. I came from a tree lopping background and I've had to work hard to improve my practices. Entering this industry with little knowledge is typical in Australia, and I suspect in the US also. If we care about trees we need to share the knowledge. As for business, I do great being able to position myself as a professional and charging more for it. That's besides the efficiencies I develop with training and better equipment.

Thanks for your advice about the hitch hiker climbing system, it's definitely on my wish list.


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## Alu (Jun 14, 2015)

Found a crack in the usual place on the zigzag.. Not going to continue whith a new.. Back to knots !


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## Alu (Jun 18, 2015)

Going to try a rope runner.. Lets see how i like it!


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## Seedling345 (Jun 21, 2015)

Zale said:


> You shouldn't be climbing with rolling papers.


I don't go any where without my rolling papers lol just to fix my broken cigs though lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## treesmith (Jul 4, 2015)

Zigzag and a spliced eye, very easy and compact, use it with an ART ropeguide, very smooth system, if I find a crack I'll just return it for a new one


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## Alu (Jul 4, 2015)

Rope runner and srt was a hit! Really likes how it works!


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## bigbluram (Jul 6, 2015)

Tight eye splice tropical ivy and a zig zag and I can tie into crane and untie in seconds. Plus once u learn to hold it in ur hand and just work top lever w pointer finger u can absolutely fly down. I climb on all drt tho since 90% is crane work. Well worth it imho


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## scotia (Aug 28, 2015)

tree lopper said:


> Does *anyone* here use a zigzag to climb?


I use the zigzag and double rope plus foot ascender..lots of control and as long as you decend steady it doesn't seem to heat up that much


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## BC WetCoast (Aug 31, 2015)

Have you had to replace one due to the side plates cracking?


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