# NE 346XP - Affects of Cat Muffler & Muffler Mod - Porting & Popup To Come



## blsnelling (Dec 16, 2009)

I've got a brand new NE 346XP here to mod. I've never run a stock NE 346XP that didn't at least have a muffler mod. I've been told the MM makes a big difference. I wanted to see for myself.

After establishing its performance bone stock with the cat muffler, I replace the muffler with a non-cat muffler, and left it unmodded. I installed an unlimited coil at that time. I then proceeded to mod the muffler.

Bottom line...a muffler mod makes a *HUGE *difference on this saw. I can now see how some of you get the results you do comparing a stock 346 to a 5100 or even a 260. I don't know personally, but am told a MM doesn't do as much for a 5100. But, again, I don't know. *But that's not where I want to go with this thread.*

In the stock configuration, it was easy to stall the chain. You can see that just getting rid of the cat muffler made a significant difference. But the muffler mod majorly stepped it up. What you can't see is how much stronger it "feels" in the cut. It's no longer prone to bogging at all. It has tons more torque than stock! If you're still running a stock muffler, and/or a cat muffler, please do yourself a favor and get that bad boy opened up. All I did was add a Husky deflector with spark arrestor screen installed on both it and the factory port.

I'll be degreeing and tearing this saw down for porting tonight. Later this week it'll be coming back apart for a popup piston and cylinder decking. Squish is at .026"-.027" stock with a gasket. Compression is 148 PSI.

Here are the measurements with the gasket out.
-Squish .013"
- Exhaust 108°
- Transfers 123°
- Intake 76°

Sorry about the little wood. That's all I have here right now. You're not going to get any measureable times with this wood, but you can still clearly see and hear the difference. Take it for what it's worth.


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## Trigger Man (Dec 16, 2009)

She sounds good, brad could you show your muffler mod(pics)?


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## blsnelling (Dec 16, 2009)

Trigger Man said:


> She sounds good, brad could you show your muffler mod(pics)?



I didn't take any pics. It's the same deflector that I've been using for months on other saws I've shown.


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## sachsmo (Dec 16, 2009)

Yeah,

When I first came here 3 years ago there was much talk of how the 359 really reacted to a muffler mod. I never used it until I put a modded non cat on it. It is still an impressive 59cc saw 3 years later. (she still wears her green gas cap like a badge of courage)

Anyone want a brand new 357/359 cat muffler?


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## PasoRoblesJimmy (Dec 16, 2009)

Brad's video is an awesome reason for getting rid of a cat muffler.


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## HuskyMurph (Dec 16, 2009)

whered you get your deflector tried ordering one online but said they were part of the muffler but did order a non cat muffler so i can cut it off my epa one thanks and any pics would be great. also did notice the bogging with my 346 in wood. thought there was something wrong. my dads 346 has a non cat muffler it doesnt bog as much. thanks for the help.....
nick


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## SawTroll (Dec 16, 2009)

It would have been better stock after just a few tanks of fuel, but the change is obvious anyway! :biggrinbounce2:


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## Trigger Man (Dec 16, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> I didn't take any pics. It's the same deflector that I've been using for months on other saws I've shown.



So Brad you left the stock opening on the muff and added another port where did you locate the other port?


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## SawTroll (Dec 16, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> I didn't take any pics. It's the same deflector that I've been using for months on other saws I've shown.



How large is the hole you cut under the deflector?


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## blsnelling (Dec 16, 2009)

Here's the plan.

- Turn a .035" popup on the piston crown, leaving .100" crown thickness.
- Mill cylinder base .030", for a final squish of .018".
- 100° Exhaust
- 120° Transfers
- 80° Intake
- Widen intake & exhaust ports to 70% of bore, as measered on the curve of the cylinder wall. Some go across the chord, which makes it a little wider yet.
- Widen and angle rear transfers towards the intake port.


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## Trigger Man (Dec 16, 2009)

Brad is it a must to have the ulimited coil, if doing the muff mod? My 346xpNE is the version with out the cat.

P.S. sorry for all the questions, but that video's got me thinking about modding the muff.


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## lone wolf (Dec 16, 2009)

HuskyMurph said:


> whered you get your deflector tried ordering one online but said they were part of the muffler but did order a non cat muffler so i can cut it off my epa one thanks and any pics would be great. also did notice the bogging with my 346 in wood. thought there was something wrong. my dads 346 has a non cat muffler it doesnt bog as much. thanks for the help.....
> nick


is a part number available for the deflector


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## 04ultra (Dec 16, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> Bottom line...a muffler mod makes a *HUGE *difference on this saw. I can now see how some of you get the results you do comparing a stock 346 to a 5100 or even a 260.





Hmmmmmmmmm.......................*If you would only listen* ............Glad you finally figured it out.....



I guess now that Brad said it.... *Its cut in stone *..........


...


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## lone wolf (Dec 16, 2009)

i sure could use a little help with the muffler pics and size hole would be great


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## blsnelling (Dec 16, 2009)

04ultra said:


> Hmmmmmmmmm.......................*If you would only listen* ............Glad you finally figured it out.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I've always told you the 346s I've run were muffler modded. In most cases, I'm personally not really interested in how a saw runs without a muffler mod. IMHO, opening the muffler up, simply allows them to run the way they were design to before the EPA and OSHA got ahold of them. This just shows you how bad it really is.


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## blsnelling (Dec 16, 2009)

lone wolf said:


> i sure could use a little help with the muffler pics and size hole would be great



You guys won't be denied will you, lol? Pictures are coming


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## lone wolf (Dec 16, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> You guys won't be denied will you, lol? Pictures are coming



alright!!!:rockn:


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## Trigger Man (Dec 16, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> You guys won't be denied will you, lol? Pictures are coming



Thanks Brad You Da MANG! And to think I was never going to modd the little sucker.


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## lone wolf (Dec 16, 2009)

by the way the husky shop had one more 346 without the green cap 450.00


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## blsnelling (Dec 16, 2009)

Here's the non-cat muffler with the OEM Husqvarna deflector and spark arrestor screen. I'll get the PNs for you shortly. The deflector is not shaped like this originally. I fit it to the muffler with a tiny little ball peen hammer after starting the screws.








Here's a shot of my personal 346. You'll notice that I moved it up a little higher on this new one. It's very close to hitting the case on my saw.







Here's the degree wheel super glued to four flywheel fins. I size the wheel to the flywheel before printing. I use a piece of solder as a pointer. When I'm done, I tear the degree wheel off and throw it away.


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## super3 (Dec 16, 2009)

I believe the deflector used is from a 288, # 503 07 83-01


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## Banacanin (Dec 16, 2009)

04ultra said:


> Hmmmmmmmmm.......................*If you would only listen* ............Glad you finally figured it out.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Where's your video?


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## Trigger Man (Dec 16, 2009)

One more question Brad, considering all the saws you have had in your hands, which bone stock saw would a guy have to buy to compare to a muff modded 346xpNE?(which saw would you compare it to?) Not trying start a fight over brands, just asking your opinion, which I value! Thanks.


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## woodgrenade (Dec 16, 2009)

Thanks for the pictures.


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## AUSSIE1 (Dec 16, 2009)

Deflector-5030783-01

Screen-5034056-01


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## blsnelling (Dec 16, 2009)

The deflector is PN 503 58 99-01 and costs me $8.74.

The spark arrestor screen is PN 503 40 56-01 and costs me $4.97.

The screws are from the hardware store.


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## blsnelling (Dec 16, 2009)

super3 said:


> I believe the deflector used is from a 288, # 503 07 83-01





AUSSIE1 said:


> Deflector-5030783-01
> 
> Screen-5034056-01



That deflector is much more expensive at $13.96. There are others as well, but all more expensive.


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## lone wolf (Dec 16, 2009)

and how much should you open up a stocker


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## blsnelling (Dec 16, 2009)

Trigger Man said:


> One more question Brad, considering all the saws you have had in your hands, which bone stock saw would a guy have to buy to compare to a muff modded 346xpNE?(which saw would you compare it to?) Not trying start a fight over brands, just asking your opinion, which I value! Thanks.



I would at least try to answer that, but it would take the thread in a direction I don't really want to go.


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## blsnelling (Dec 16, 2009)

lone wolf said:


> and how much should you open up a stocker



This saw is stock in the video. Go ahead and open it up the entire area of the deflector. Just hold it back a little from the front edge since the deflector doesn't cover all the way forward.


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## Trigger Man (Dec 16, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> I would at least try to answer that, but it would take the thread in a direction I don't really want to go.



That's fine Brad,I don't want to put you in Hot Water.


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## blsnelling (Dec 16, 2009)

Trigger Man said:


> That's fine Brad,I don't want to put you in Hot Water.



It's not that. I just know where the thread will go.


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## Trigger Man (Dec 16, 2009)

Is the unlimited coil a must for the muff mod?


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## lone wolf (Dec 16, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> It's not that. I just know where the thread will go.


now we really want to know


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## mdavlee (Dec 16, 2009)

That's a pretty good change just from muffler mod. That cheaper part number for the deflector is good, also.


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## joatmon (Dec 16, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> It's not that. I just know where the thread will go.



Brad,

Are you doing this for Niko's benefit? He's the only one that would cut wood that size.

Carry on,

ole joat


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## sachsmo (Dec 16, 2009)

*Hole size?*



lone wolf said:


> i sure could use a little help with the muffler pics and size hole would be great



359 EPA

I'm no expert,


I went by the theory bigger is better!


(I know, I know I weld like crap, but she runs gooood)

Mine has .750 I.D. tube running through the inside "baffle plate", with a flare on the side closest to the port. Basically a straight pipe, it's not butted against the flange, so I suppose some will still exit the stock (through the straw) location.


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## SawTroll (Dec 16, 2009)

joatmon said:


> Brad,
> 
> Are you doing this for Niko's benefit? He's the only one that would cut wood that size.
> 
> ...



Birch that size turns into good firewood when dry, so I don't leave tops and branches that size in the woods....


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## joatmon (Dec 16, 2009)

SawTroll said:


> Birch that size turns into good firewood when dry, so I don't leave it in the woods....



Good deal ole buddy. Just had to let you and Brad know I was paying attention.


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## harrybeaver (Dec 16, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> The deflector is PN 503 58 99-01 and costs me $8.74.
> 
> The spark arrestor screen is PN 503 40 56-01 and costs me $4.97.
> 
> The screws are from the hardware store.



I put those numbers into the search on Baileys web site nothing came back. Then I typed in the names and was able to find the deflector but I am still not able to find the screen. Can you recommend a supplier? Thanks


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## Trigger Man (Dec 16, 2009)

SawTroll said:


> Birch that size turns into good firewood when dry, so I don't leave tops and branches that size in the woods....



Same here, thats wastefull, but tell that to the guys running harvesters.


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## blsnelling (Dec 16, 2009)

joatmon said:


> Brad,
> 
> Are you doing this for Niko's benefit? He's the only one that would cut wood that size.
> 
> ...


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## Trigger Man (Dec 16, 2009)

harrybeaver said:


> I put those numbers into the search on Baileys web site nothing came back. Then I typed in the names and was able to find the deflector but I am still not able to find the screen. Can you recommend a supplier? Thanks



Use the same # for the screen that is on the original muffler port, I would think it would work.


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## blsnelling (Dec 16, 2009)

harrybeaver said:


> I put those numbers into the search on Baileys web site nothing came back. Then I typed in the names and was able to find the deflector but I am still not able to find the screen. Can you recommend a supplier? Thanks



Their search engine has a few bugs. Here they are. Fire screen, Deflector


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## blsnelling (Dec 16, 2009)

Trigger Man said:


> Use the same # for the screen that is on the original muffler port, I would think it would work.



I wouldn't recommend that. This screen fits the deflector exactly with holes for the bolts and all.


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## blsnelling (Dec 16, 2009)

Trigger Man said:


> Is the unlimited coil a must for the muff mod?



It's not "required" even when ported. It just means that you have no way of tuning other than in the wood. You can't tune with a tach or by ear unless you replace it. For those reasons, I will not mod one of these for someone unless they're willing to spend the extra $40 for a used OEM coil.


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## Trigger Man (Dec 16, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> It's not "required" even when ported. It just means that you have no way of tuning other than in the wood. You can't tune with a tach or by ear unless you replace it. For those reasons, I will not mod one of these for someone unless they're willing to spend the extra $40 for a used OEM coil.



Thanks for the answer Brad.


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## blsnelling (Dec 16, 2009)

I'm off to the bench to start grinding. Wish me luck


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## Trigger Man (Dec 16, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> I'm off to the bench to start grinding. Wish me luck



Be sure to video the results.


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## Trigger Man (Dec 16, 2009)

Quick anyone in Ohio run up to Brads saw horse and put a big stick on it! with a red bow tie!


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## lone wolf (Dec 16, 2009)

Trigger Man said:


> Quick anyone in Ohio run up to Brads saw horse and put a big stick on it!



i can see why he dont have any


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## mdavlee (Dec 16, 2009)

Man I want one of these saws more and more when stuff likes this gets shown.


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## lone wolf (Dec 16, 2009)

mdavlee said:


> Man I want one of these saws more and more when stuff likes this gets shown.



i just got mine and didnt get a chance to see it go but i can tell its very snappy


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## Woodcutteranon (Dec 16, 2009)

This is the most fun I have had reading a thread in a while!


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## porsche965 (Dec 16, 2009)

Regulations are ruining this country....


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## lone wolf (Dec 16, 2009)

porsche965 said:


> Regulations are ruining this country....



and a lot of ignorant people


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## blsnelling (Dec 16, 2009)

Trigger Man said:


> Quick anyone in Ohio run up to Brads saw horse and put a big stick on it! with a red bow tie!



That would be majorly appreciated Make it about 12" hardwood if you don't mind


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## lone wolf (Dec 16, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> That would be majorly appreciated Make it about 12" hardwood if you don't mind



thuht u were porting


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## lone wolf (Dec 16, 2009)

lone wolf said:


> thuht u were porting



you might start cutting your own trees down soon just to test your saws opcorn:


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## mdavlee (Dec 16, 2009)

I've got a piece off the other end of the log I've been testing in. It's probably 16" or so on the small end. It would be a long drive to do it before he went to bed.


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## Trigger Man (Dec 16, 2009)

lone wolf said:


> i just got mine and didnt get a chance to see it go but i can tell its very snappy



Did'nt you just post in your other thread that you tryed it out on some small stuff?


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## lone wolf (Dec 16, 2009)

Trigger Man said:


> Did'nt you just post in your other thread that you tryed it out on some small stuff?



yes but like couple seconds it was a small piece on the ground not even a log i cant wait to cut somthing


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## BigUglySquirrel (Dec 16, 2009)

Now I'm not trying to hijack Brads thread, but since he's off getting carpal tunnel from his die grinders and dremels, maybe I can regail you all with a little story.

I was on a LARGE removal the first time I got to meet Brad and his arsenal of high RPM toys. I have to say, I was skeptical but excited to see what a tricked saw could do. Now it has to be said, Brad is one of those guys that you just like right off the bat. He's polite, well spoken and genuinely well.... a nice guy. The real fun starts when you turn the conversation to saws. His eyes light up and he starts talking faster and faster...like he's afraid he'll run out of time before he'll run out of things he'd love to tell you. In short, the dude KNOWS his stuff and he'd passionate about it. The real kicker is he LOVES to share what he's learned and his theories. So, enough about Brad. 

His cache was QUITE impressive. Off-hand I recall a 346xp, 440 with a 460 topend, a super clean 084, and a tricked 660. There was also a Johnsered I believe? Little help there Brad.. 

At any rate, my mouth was watering and it wasn't long before I got to see what a real saw was all about. I got to see them all run, and I got to run a few myself (thank you Brad... I think! LOL! You created a fiend...) but BY FAR, for me the most impressive was the unassuming, somewhat diminutive looking 346xp. 

We recently got a stock 346xp and it's a good saw for what it is. It's handy in the tree and it's "alright" on the ground as long as the chain is in shape. So I was shocked when it was his first call for a large old-growth oak. 

From the moment he fired it up, I was entranced. The sound of this thing!! Oh my GOD! What really killed me was how EFFORTLESSLY this thing handled the load! I watched him bury the bar all day and the thing was just relentless! Here I was, cutting with a 24" bar on a stock, well-cared-for 372xp and he's running through the cut faster than I am....with a saw that is FAR more manueverable and WAY lighter! Which left me thinking, "Now what is wrong with this picture?! I bet his lower back isn't even getting tight yet....well that little saw isn't much bigger than a popcorn fart! Why am I still hauling this big heavy mother mother around? Well I guess I'd use our 346, too....if it would cut like THAT! I might need to get me one of those..."

Yes, the rest of his saws were impressive and I found myself shaking my head in disbelief several times, but I made up my mind that day. I will own one of Brads Snelling's pop-top, ported 346xp timber piranhas before I clock out....for now I've got a few 200T's that are going to need a little massage....and a 365 Special, and a 395xp, and a 361.....


Hope I didn't ramble too much for you guys... just wanted to share my experience with everyone


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## Trigger Man (Dec 16, 2009)

BigUglySquirrel said:


> Now I'm not trying to hijack Brads thread, but since he's off getting carpal tunnel from his die grinders and dremels, maybe I can regail you all with a little story.
> 
> I was on a LARGE removal the first time I got to meet Brad and his arsenal of high RPM toys. I have to say, I was skeptical but excited to see what a tricked saw could do. Now it has to be said, Brad is one of those guys that you just like right off the bat. He's polite, well spoken and genuinely well.... a nice guy. The real fun starts when you turn the conversation to saws. His eyes light up and he starts talking faster and faster...like he's afraid he'll run out of time before he'll run out of things he'd love to tell you. In short, the dude KNOWS his stuff and he'd passionate about it. The real kicker is he LOVES to share what he's learned and his theories. So, enough about Brad.
> 
> ...



Ramble away, Not to many care about saws the way brad seems to, he's very valuable to the site. Also not everyone is capable and/or willing to explain everything in detail like brad is willing to do. He's one of a kind in this world for sure.


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## blsnelling (Dec 16, 2009)

BigUglySquirrel said:


> Now I'm not trying to hijack Brads thread, but since he's off getting carpal tunnel from his die grinders and dremels, maybe I can regail you all with a little story................



Hey Chris! Good to see you around. It took me a second to figure out who it was that knew me so well, lol. I didn't know your AS username. 

This little bugger is liable to out perform my 346. I've actually never even had a degree wheel on mine. The exhaust was really low on this one. Perhaps mine is as well. I'll certainly want to compare them before I send this one off.

Anyway, the porting is nearly done. I'm finishing up the transfers, and then have to put the final finish on the exhaust. I may have this thing back together yet tonight.


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## blsnelling (Dec 16, 2009)

What Chris didn't tell you is that he's one of those crazy, fearless, adrenaline junkies that swings from trees 100' in the air! Yeah, one of those guys. He's one of the guys you saw in the video I made of dropping that nearly 60" DBH Oak tree a few weeks ago. Chris is quite the nice guy himself. Matter of fact, he loaned me his 200T to run against mine today. Thanks Chris!

The porting is done. I'm off to the garage to clean things up, make a thin gasket, and bolt it back together. I'm anxious to see what compression is after raising the exhaust about 7°. What ever I lost, I should more than make up with the popup.


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## blsnelling (Dec 17, 2009)

The saw's back together and running like a top. Obviously, it's too late to put it in wood though. It's turning about 16K. The exhaust came out exactly where I wanted it, at 100°. I raised it 7° which is about .070"! Now here's what's wild. I've got more compression than I started with. Lowering the squish down to about .016" from .027" more than made up for the exhaust port raising. Compression is now 150 PSI. A .035" popup will have that up nicely. I'm shooting for a final squish of .018 after the machine work. When it comes back apart, I may raise the transfers a little more. They're still at 123°. I was shooting for 120°. I'll just have to wait and see how it runs. If I wasn't doing the popup, this saw would be done and going out tomorrow.


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## parrisw (Dec 17, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> Here are the measurements with the gasket out.
> -Squish .013"
> - Exhaust 108°
> - Transfers 123°
> - Intake 76°





blsnelling said:


> Here's the plan.
> 
> - Turn a .035" popup on the piston crown, leaving .100" crown thickness.
> - Mill cylinder base .030", for a final squish of .018".
> ...



What's the reason for the difference in timing? How come your going with less timing after porting?


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## Terry Syd (Dec 17, 2009)

*Timing/duration*

Those aren't duration numbers, they are degrees from TDC.

It confuses me too as I think in duration terms. I have to convert them to understand them.

If the exhaust opens at 100 degrees after top dead center, then there is 80 degrees left before bottom dead center. Multiply that by 2 and get 160 degrees of duration.


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## parrisw (Dec 17, 2009)

Terry Syd said:


> Those aren't duration numbers, they are degrees from TDC.
> 
> I confuses me too as I think in duration terms. I have to convert them to understand them.
> 
> If the exhaust opens at 100 degrees after top dead center, then there is 80 degrees left before bottom dead center. Multiply that by 2 and get 160 degrees of duration.



Ahhh ok. Makes sense now.


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## dingeryote (Dec 17, 2009)

opcorn:

Seriously. 

Good stuff Brad!

The MM, details and comments on the porting were music to the ears and eyes.
It IS appreciated.

Thanks!
Dingeryote


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## Guarddog1 (Dec 17, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> The saw's back together and running like a top. Obviously, it's too late to put it in wood though. It's turning about 16K. The exhaust came out exactly where I wanted it, at 100°. I raised it 7° which is about .070"! Now here's what's wild. I've got more compression than I started with. Lowering the squish down to about .016" from .027" more than made up for the exhaust port raising. Compression is now 150 PSI. A .035" popup will have that up nicely. I'm shooting for a final squish of .018 after the machine work. When it comes back apart, I may raise the transfers a little more. They're still at 123°. I was shooting for 120°. I'll just have to wait and see how it runs. If I wasn't doing the popup, this saw would be done and going out tomorrow.



What piston are you going to use for the pop up part # please and were the heck are the pics? Can you post one of the machine work to the piston will you have the step tapered to the center of the piston or just leave a .035 step with a sharp edge?


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## blsnelling (Dec 17, 2009)

I'll be using the original piston. The crown is .135" thick above the ring groove. .100" is considered the minimum safe thickness. So I will be going with a .035" tall popup. Squish without a gasket is currently .013". So I will take .030" off the cylinder base to give a final squish of .018".

I'll let FATGUY fill you in on the machining details. *Hey Nik!!!!!!!!!!!*


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## FATGUY (Dec 17, 2009)

Hey Brad!!


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## Guarddog1 (Dec 17, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> I'll be using the original piston. The crown is .135" thick above the ring groove. .100" is considered the minimum safe thickness. So I will be going with a .035" tall popup. Squish without a gasket is currently .013". So I will take .030" off the cylinder base to give a final squish of .018".
> 
> I'll let FATGUY fill you in on the machining details. *Hey Nik!!!!!!!!!!!*



So that is why you raised the exhuast that amout correct? To make up for the machining of the base.


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## blsnelling (Dec 17, 2009)

Guarddog1 said:


> So that is why you raised the exhuast that amout correct? To make up for the machining of the base.



Not at all. Putting a popup on the piston does not affect exhaust or transfer port timing at all. The cylinder is machined to come down with the piston crown. I raised the exhaust because it was much lower than what I wanted. I wanted more exhaust duration. That will also have the affect of giving me more blowdown time, which was very short before. Blowdown is calculated from when the exhaust starts opening until the transfers start opening. In the case of this saw, it starts at 100° and ends at 123°, for a blowdown of 23°.


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## Guarddog1 (Dec 17, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> Not at all. Putting a popup on the piston does not affect exhaust or transfer port timing at all. The cylinder is machined to come down with the piston crown. I raised the exhaust because it was much lower than what I wanted. I wanted more exhaust duration. That will also have the affect of giving me more blowdown time, which was very short before. Blowdown is calculated from when the exhaust starts opening until the transfers start opening. In the case of this saw, it starts at 100° and ends at 123°, for a blowdown of 23°.



But lowering the entire jug by means of removing the gasket and macinig the base woould effect port timing that is what I was refering to not the blowdown that would remain constant unless manual grinding of one or the other took place correct. And just another question if you lower the squish band .030 the edge of the piston would then clear the port at .030faster is that taken into consideration in port timing. Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions I am not giving you hard time just trying to learn.

Thanks Bill


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## blsnelling (Dec 17, 2009)

If the top of the piston and the cylinder come down together, there is no change in port timing.


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## Guarddog1 (Dec 17, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> If the top of the piston and the cylinder come down together, there is no change in port timing.



Roger that understood huh missed that as simple as it is.


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## blsnelling (Dec 17, 2009)

Guarddog1 said:


> Roger that understood huh missed that as simple as it is.



It just takes some time and thinking to get your head around some of this stuff. Now I'll try and confuse you While exhaust and transfer port timing doesn't change, intake timing does. Because the bottom of the piston skirt isn't changing, and the intake port is coming down, intake duration is increased. It's kind of like automatic porting, lol. I kept this in mind when I ported it. I left it about 4° higher than what I want the final number.


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## Article10 (Dec 17, 2009)

Brad, relatively new to the site, but very much enjoy what you and everyone here is doing with engines. 

With the increased effiency of the cylinder assembly, is there much of a gain by increasing the venturi ID of the carb or using a larger "flowing" carb or is the engine RPM limited?


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## B_Turner (Dec 17, 2009)

Good stuff Brad, I really appreciate how you share details.

Sorry if I missed this info, but it's stuff I have been trying to figure out before I buy a second 346 (first one non cat).
 
The vid says turned against the limiter at 13.7k. Is that the carb limiter or the coil on the etech model? If my non etech coil is limited, it is above 14k so I am trying to figure out if the etech coil is different than the non etech coil (stock coils).

Is that a Baileys non OEM non cat muffler? Do all the etech bolts deflector shield, gasket etc work with the replacement muffler? (i.e. Do I need anything else?)



For me I love my non cat 346 and am trying to understand if there are any real differences between the etech and non etech 346 that a replacement muffler won't fix. Like do they have the same coil?


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## blsnelling (Dec 17, 2009)

Article10 said:


> Brad, relatively new to the site, but very much enjoy what you and everyone here is doing with engines.
> 
> With the increased effiency of the cylinder assembly, is there much of a gain by increasing the venturi ID of the carb or using a larger "flowing" carb or is the engine RPM limited?



At a certain point, I'm sure a larger carb would be needed. I actually have a 357XP carb on mine. I'm not sure it did much for it. I did not measure the venturi on either carb. But this is a work saw and has to retain all functionality. So that rules out a lot of carb and intake mods. This saw will still function 100% the was a stock saw does. Starting, idle, and throttle response will all be as good or better than stock. Externally, the only noticable difference is the extra deflector on the muffler.


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## Guarddog1 (Dec 17, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> It just takes some time and thinking to get your head around some of this stuff. Now I'll try and confuse you While exhaust and transfer port timing doesn't change, intake timing does. Because the bottom of the piston skirt isn't changing, and the intake port is coming down, intake duration is increased. It's kind of like automatic porting, lol. I kept this in mind when I ported it. I left it about 4° higher than what I want the final number.



Yeah I followed that whole deal that was explained on another site. I will most likely do the same deal to my 346 if this yours turns out ok. Just another question a touch off topic what program do you use to print the degree wheel differnt sizes I have the pic already just need to size it.

Thanks.


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## blsnelling (Dec 17, 2009)

B_Turner said:


> Sorry if I missed this info, but it's stuff I have been trying to figure out before I buy a second 346 (first one non cat).
> 
> The vid says turned against the limiter at 13.7k. Is that the carb limiter or the coil on the etech model? If my non etech coil is limited, it is above 14k so I am trying to figure out if the etech coil is different than the non etech coil (stock coils).
> 
> Is that a Baileys non OEM non cat muffler? Do all the etech bolts deflector shield, gasket etc work with the replacement muffler? (i.e. Do I need anything else?



That was with the limiters trimmed. If I went any leaner, I started getting erratic RPM readings, indicating I was past the rev limiter. AFAIK, all NE 346XPs have a rev limited coil.

The muffler is off of a 350. This is one of the mufflers replaced by Husqvarna that was vibrating loose on the 350. It's not an issue on the 346. Something to do with harmonics or something on the 350. You can use all the same bolts and other hardware.


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## blsnelling (Dec 17, 2009)

Guarddog1 said:


> ...if this yours turns out ok.



The same mods have been on my 346 for months. It's one lean mean machine.

I use Photoshop to resize the degree wheel.


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## B_Turner (Dec 17, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> That was with the limiters trimmed. If I went any leaner, I started getting erratic RPM readings, indicating I was past the rev limiter. AFAIK, all NE 346XPs have a rev limited coil.
> 
> The muffler is off of a 350. This is one of the mufflers replaced by Husqvarna that was vibrating loose on the 350. It's not an issue on the 346. Something to do with harmonics or something on the 350. You can use all the same bolts and other hardware.



Thanks. Must be just some variation in the 346 coils as I know mine will turn at least 14.1k without being on the limiter (as verified by two different tachs).

Earlier in the week I had called a dealer about an hour and a half south of here who said they still had a non cat 346 in stock (I know they still did a few months ago). But when I got down there they were all etechs, so I am trying to get a handle on the differences before I buy another 346 of the etech flavor.

I need to track down a recent 346 IPL.


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## blsnelling (Dec 17, 2009)

B_Turner said:


> Thanks. Must be just some variation in the 346 coils as I know mine will turn at least 14.1k without being on the limiter (as verified by two different tachs).
> 
> Earlier in the week I had called a dealer about an hour and a half south of here who said they still had a non cat 346 in stock (I know they still did a few months ago). But when I got down there they were all etechs, so I am trying to get a handle on the differences before I buy another 346 of the etech flavor.
> 
> I need to track down a recent 346 IPL.



Just get a used OEM coil off eBay for $25. That is the best solution. That and the muffler are the only difference. Oh...unless you don't like the green fuel cap


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## B_Turner (Dec 17, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> Just get a used OEM coil off eBay for $25. That is the best solution. That and the muffler are the only difference. Oh...unless you don't like the green fuel cap



Thanks.

To be honest I don't like the look of the green gas caps.

In regard to coil, you are referring to what you did to get an unlimited coil?

In other works, the stock etech and non etechs 346's have the same coil as eachother (same limit, that is). There are conflicting postings on the web on this...

Still smarting from when I bought my first 3120's and found out they were limited so much lower than the older ones....:deadhorse:


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## JT78 (Dec 17, 2009)

So I noticed that you state the squish as being .016 currently and then say it is .013 without a gasket I have two questions first is .016 a safe number on this saw because of the smaller combustion chamber vs a larger I thought that .020 was as small as you want to go? Second question is what did you use for your gasket that was .003 thick? I am not questioning why just trying to learn thanks.


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## blsnelling (Dec 17, 2009)

JT78 said:


> So I noticed that you state the squish as being .016 currently and then say it is .013 without a gasket I have two questions first is .016 a safe number on this saw because of the smaller combustion chamber vs a larger I thought that .020 was as small as you want to go? Second question is what did you use for your gasket that was .003 thick? I am not questioning why just trying to learn thanks.



I have had no problems at all with a squish of .016 on smaller saws. No errosion of the crown or anything.

I use different thicknesses of paper and make my own gaskets. I've never had a failure. Once machined, I'll be using a fuel proof sealant such as ThreeBond 1194.


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## blsnelling (Dec 17, 2009)

B_Turner said:


> In regard to coil, you are referring to what you did to get an unlimited coil?
> 
> In other works, the stock etech and non etechs 346's have the same coil as eachother (same limit, that is). There are conflicting postings on the web on this...



All NE 346XPs have a rev limited coil. I can't say if they vary or not. I *always *replace them. The rev limit is usually stamped on the coil. I'll check the one that came off this saw to see what's stamped on it.


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## SawTroll (Dec 17, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> ....
> 
> The muffler is off of a 350. This is one of the mufflers replaced by Husqvarna that was vibrating loose on the 350. It's not an issue on the 346. Something to do with harmonics or something on the 350. You can use all the same bolts and other hardware.



If memory serves, the issue on the 350 was that it lacked the muffler support bracket that the 346xp and 353 has.


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## blsnelling (Dec 17, 2009)

Here it is ported and about 1 tank of fuel through it. It's running great. It started in one pull this morning cold. 

I've got a question for you carb gurus. You'll notice that the saw goes leaner and leaner the more cuts I make with it. *It's not an air leak.* Every 346 I've worked on does this. Even my 346 with a 357 carb does the exact same thing. I simply tune the saw to its leanest point and it's fine. But let it set a few seconds and it's rich again at first. Could the carb be having trouble supplying enough fuel? Do you think raising the needle lever would help cure this characteristic? Could the tank vent be having trouble keeping up in extended cuts?

It's hold about 11,800-12,000 in the cut, and 10,000 dogged in.

The saw comes back apart tonight for the machine work.


<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/o4Spvpnd53w&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/o4Spvpnd53w&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


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## Article10 (Dec 17, 2009)

Might be temperature of the cyl assy. Try setting it up on a "warmed" up assy and see if it goes leaner with more cuts. 

The tank vent may be an issue worth looking into.


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## PasoRoblesJimmy (Dec 17, 2009)

*New EPA/CARB scam to prevent removal of a cat muffler.*

The EPA or CARB has come up with a new scheme or scam to block removal, replacement or modification of a cat/non-cat muffler.

The muffler on my Husky 445 (purchased Nov 2009) has 2 round metal rings firmly pressed with a tight force fit into the 2 deep holes on the front side of my muffler. It looks like the EPA or CARB is trying to block access to the muffler bolts located just behind those 2 force fitted rings. My Stihl SH86 (purchased May 2009) has the same exact force fit rings pressed deep into the front holes of its muffler. In both cases, the metal rings block removal of the muffler bolts. The metal rings have writing on them. 

The non-cat muffler on my Husky 445 is made of plated, likely aluminized, steel. It looks like the muffler could be hollow behind the opening underneath the muffler screen.

I am trying to figure out how to remove the muffler to see what is lurking inside of it. How do you remove the 2 metal rings blocking access to the muffler attachment screws? Can these 2 rings be removed with a drill or a screw extractor? Can these 2 rings be reinstalled after they have been removed? Is there a simple way to remove a muffler without destroying the rings or the muffler?

I'm not interested in a radical racing saw. I just want a working saw that isn't turned into a gutless wonder by the Political Correctness of the EPA.


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## blsnelling (Dec 17, 2009)

PasoRoblesJimmy said:


> The EPA or CARB has come up with a new scheme or scam to prevent removal, replacement or modification of a cat/non-cat muffler.
> 
> The muffler on my Husky 445 (purchased Nov 2009) has 2 round metal rings firmly pressed with a tight force fit into the 2 deep holes on the front side of my muffler. It looks like the EPA or CARB is trying to block access to the muffler bolts located just behind those 2 force fitted rings. My Stihl SH86 has the same exact force fit rings pressed into the front holes of its muffler. In both cases, the metal rings have writing on them.
> 
> ...



Not to be rude, but please start another thread.


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## blsnelling (Dec 17, 2009)

Article10 said:


> Might be temperature of the cyl assy. Try setting it up on a "warmed" up assy and see if it goes leaner with more cuts.
> 
> The tank vent may be an issue worth looking into.



The saw was fully warmed up. If you wait just a few seconds, it goes back to being rich.


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## Article10 (Dec 17, 2009)

Not necessarily a "jetting" issue unless the plug indicates lean burn.

What else in the fuel supply equation could impead flow?


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## dingeryote (Dec 17, 2009)

PasoRoblesJimmy said:


> The EPA or CARB has come up with a new scheme or scam to block removal, replacement or modification of a cat/non-cat muffler.
> 
> The muffler on my Husky 445 (purchased Nov 2009) has 2 round metal rings firmly pressed with a tight force fit into the 2 deep holes on the front side of my muffler. It looks like the EPA or CARB is trying to block access to the muffler bolts located just behind those 2 force fitted rings. My Stihl SH86 (purchased May 2009) has the same exact force fit rings pressed deep into the front holes of its muffler. In both cases, the metal rings block removal of the muffler bolts. The metal rings have writing on them.
> 
> ...





Jimmy,

Start a new thread and put up some pics if ya can.

I'm gonna run to TSC tomorrow and will eyeball the snot outta thier saws to see what it is in there.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## blsnelling (Dec 17, 2009)

dingeryote said:


> Jimmy,
> 
> Start a new thread and put up some pics if ya can.
> 
> ...



Thanks guys


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## blsnelling (Dec 17, 2009)

Article10 said:


> Not necessarily a "jetting" issue unless the plug indicates lean burn.
> 
> What else in the fuel supply equation could impead flow?



If it is indeed an issue, then it's running out of fuel in extended cuts. I'm seriously suspecting the tank vent at this point. I think I'll remove it all together and see if that does it. If so, I'll have to come up with a proper solution.


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## Article10 (Dec 17, 2009)

Easy to go that route of increasing tank venting, then see if a change occurs in the correct direction. I know from working on GA aircraft in the past, when higher HP stc'd engines are installed, larger fuel lines and some times fuel tank venting fittings and lines are required.

if that accomplishes no change then it is worth looking at fuel supply system in detail.


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## blsnelling (Dec 17, 2009)

Article10 said:


> Easy to go that route of increasing tank venting, then see if a change occurs in the correct direction. I know from working on GA aircraft in the past, when higher HP stc'd engines are installed, larger fuel lines and some times fuel tank venting fittings and lines are required.
> 
> if that accomplishes no change then it is worth looking at fuel supply system in detail.



I agree entirely.


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## Article10 (Dec 17, 2009)

Just another thought, do you go one heat range colder on the spark plug on any of the ported engines? With the increased fuel/air volume in the cylinder and corresponding increased heat generated, is that an issue on these engines?


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## blsnelling (Dec 17, 2009)

Article10 said:


> Just another thought, do you go one heat range colder on the spark plug on any of the ported engines? With the increased fuel/air volume in the cylinder and corresponding increased heat generated, is that an issue on these engines?



No, I haven't ever messed with the plugs. Raising the needle lever seemed to help.


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## sachsmo (Dec 17, 2009)

I know 2 strokes and 4 strokes have little in common, but the carbs still work off the same principle correct? Just saying when you get some real free flowing ports, your velocity drops, as does the venturi signal. Would this hold true for saw carbs as well?


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## Tzed250 (Dec 17, 2009)

mobetter said:


> I know 2 strokes and 4 strokes have little in common, but the carbs still work off the same principle correct? Just saying when you get some real free flowing ports, your velocity drops, as does the venturi signal. Would this hold true for saw carbs as well?




Better check that. 

More flow=higher velocity=lower pressure=increased signal at the venturi. 


.


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## Terry Syd (Dec 17, 2009)

*Carb*

Last I checked the NE 346 had a 15mm venturi. 

With this emphasis on EPA regs, it may be that the carb is restricted for fuel flow. Since the higher 'float' level seemed to help, it could be that the metering chamber is being drawn down too fast for the metering orifice to feed the chamber. You might have to enlarge the metering orifice under the metering valve.

You could check the size of the orifice with some of your other carbs to get an idea if it looks too small.


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## stihlboy (Dec 17, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> Here it is ported and about 1 tank of fuel through it. It's running great. It started in one pull this morning cold.
> 
> *I've got a question for you carb gurus. You'll notice that the saw goes leaner and leaner the more cuts I make with it. It's not an air leak. Every 346 I've worked on does this. Even my 346 with a 357 carb does the exact same thing. I simply tune the saw to its leanest point and it's fine. But let it set a few seconds and it's rich again at first. Could the carb be having trouble supplying enough fuel? Do you think raising the needle lever would help cure this characteristic? Could the tank vent be having trouble keeping up in extended cuts?*
> It's hold about 11,800-12,000 in the cut, and 10,000 dogged in.
> ...



 that don't sound good....you'll figure it out though..... who's saw is it? are they gonna use it for fire wood, limbing, bucking??? what is this saws primary use??


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## blsnelling (Dec 17, 2009)

stihlboy said:


> that don't sound good....



See post 106. Raising the needle seemed to do the trick.


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## Hddnis (Dec 18, 2009)

Great thread, Brad, good work and I'm looking forward to more updates. 



Mr. HE


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## harrybeaver (Dec 18, 2009)

Can you describe what a pop up piston is? It sounds like you are trimming the top of the piston to make it more of a dome shape so it can increase the volumetric efficiency.


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## blsnelling (Dec 18, 2009)

harrybeaver said:


> Can you describe what a pop up piston is?



The crown of the piston is machined such that the center sticks up higher than the sides. This is typically done on a lathe, but can be done on a mill. The idea is to have the "popup" sticking up into the combustion chamer, thus reducing volume. The net result is higher compression. When this is done, the base of the cylinder has to be machined as well to bring the cylinder down over the cylinder. You want to keep the squish around the outer edges of the piston crown just as tight as it was before you machined the edge of the piston crown down. If you didn't bring the cylinder down, you would actually be lowering compression. 

There are a couple things to keep in mind when doing this. Make sure you don't lower the cylinder so far that you free port the cylinder below the piston skirt when at TDC. There's a slight negative affect in the you may be slightly covering the bottom of the transfers when the piston's at BDC. Also keep in mind that you'll be increasing intake duration by the amount that you lower the cylinder, since the bottom of the piston skirt isn't changing. All other port timing stays the same since both the edge of the piston and cylinder are coming down the same amount.


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## Kansas (Dec 18, 2009)

Hey Brad, out of curiosity where would these muffler parts and oem coil be found I dont buy saw parts so I have to ask?

I guess for now I plan to do it at least the coil and muffler thats as far as I plan on going anyway just to let it breathe better.

I didnt see any used coils on ebay so is an aftermarket coil going to work and be rpm unlimited etc or should I just plan to get a new oem coil? 

I rarely use AM parts on cars I fix I stick w/oem parts 95% of the time makes my life a lot easier so am very skeptical of these AM coils fwtw. 

Btw thanks for the tips so far, this thread got me interested in mods finally 

Kansas


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## blsnelling (Dec 18, 2009)

I prefer OEM. Look for a black coil that fits any of the following models. 334, 335, 336, 338, 339, 340, 345, 346, 350, 351, 353, 357, 359, 362, 365, 371, 372, 385, 390, 570, 575. This is from a 455 or 460, but looks like it would work as well, LINK. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Baileys does sell an aftermarket unit, LINK. You can get the muffler from Baileys too.


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## Kansas (Dec 18, 2009)

Thanks I will get the Baileys coil. 

Also where are the screen and deflector available from I have the muffler already on it?

I looked at grinding the deflector/screen etc off my cat and decided thats more trouble than its worth not impossible none the less.

I do want a screen on it what you did looks good better than what I would end up with grinding mine off.


Kansas


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## harrybeaver (Dec 18, 2009)

Kansas said:


> Thanks I will get the Baileys coil.
> 
> Also where are the screen and deflector available from I have the muffler already on it?
> 
> Read post #44, Brad already answered this question. Thanks Brad


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## wendell (Dec 18, 2009)

Have I told you how much I hate you guys? 

I've been tempted to replace my 350 with a 346XP (and I have no reason other than CAD) and after this thread, think I'm stopping by the dealer tomorrow and checking one out. AAUUGGHH!


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## dingeryote (Dec 18, 2009)

wendell said:


> Have I told you how much I hate you guys?
> 
> I've been tempted to replace my 350 with a 346XP (and I have no reason other than CAD) and after this thread, think I'm stopping by the dealer tomorrow and checking one out. AAUUGGHH!



Yield to temptation already!!!

Then send it to brad.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## wendell (Dec 18, 2009)

dingeryote said:


> Yield to temptation already!!!
> 
> Then send it to brad.
> 
> ...



You're not helping!


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## Erick (Dec 19, 2009)

wendell said:


> Have I told you how much I hate you guys?
> 
> I've been tempted to replace my 350 with a 346XP (and I have no reason other than CAD) and after this thread, think I'm stopping by the dealer tomorrow and checking one out. AAUUGGHH!



Here, I'll give you a reason..... the mufflers gonna fall off of that 350 soon, better get the 346.


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## wendell (Dec 19, 2009)

Actually, the muffler is done falling off. I got that fixed but that XP is one sweet saw and the one they have in stock doesn't have a green gas cap!


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## dingeryote (Dec 20, 2009)

wendell said:


> You're not helping!



LOL!!!!!

Yes I am!!!

Get the 346xp. You'll suddenly look and feel 10 years younger, supermodels will start giving you Bootycalls, and you'll always find the good Beer when it's on sale.


Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## bowtechmadman (Dec 20, 2009)

Great thread Brad...Thanks!
Dinger that sure beats a 361 that can only cure cancer.


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## blsnelling (Dec 21, 2009)

Here's the final video of the saw with the popup. This wood is much harder than the piece in the previous videos.

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## wigglesworth (Dec 21, 2009)

Looks good, but it sounds a little lean to me. Maybe its just the vid.


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## blsnelling (Dec 21, 2009)

wigglesworth said:


> Looks good, but it sounds a *little lean to me*. Maybe its just the vid.



It is. I fattened it up after those cuts. Matter of fact, I fattened it up enough to slow the cut times down. I won't sent them out that lean.


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## pippin5267 (Dec 21, 2009)

I recently did a muffler mod to one of my 372's with the same delflector you used on your 346. I used self tapping, pan head screws to hold the deflector to the muffler. The first time I ran it, the screws vibrated out and I lost the deflector. I was wondering what kind of screws you used to hold your deflector on and if you used something to hold them in (like loctite or jb weld).


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## mdavlee (Dec 21, 2009)

i usually put locktite on the ones I've done. On stihls on the dual port cover I use bolts with lock washer and locktite.


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## Terry Syd (Dec 21, 2009)

*Compression*

Brad, what was the final compression figure with the pop-up?


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## SWE#Kipp (Dec 21, 2009)

Nice job on that one Brad !!


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## blsnelling (Dec 21, 2009)

Terry Syd said:


> Brad, what was the final compression figure with the pop-up?



Compression is only about 145 right now. It's only on it's 2nd tank of fuel. I experienced similiar with mine. It was quite low when new. After a dozen or so tanks, it's now 185-190 with the same .040" popup and .016" squish. I've never seen compression jump that much with breakin. It's just going to take some time to see it come up. It seems that Huskies have lower compression from the factory these days than Stihls do. But they run well none the less.


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## SawTroll (Dec 21, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> Compression is only about 145 right now. It's only on it's 2nd tank of fuel. I experienced similiar with mine. It was quite low when new. After a dozen or so tanks, it's now 185-190 with the same .040" popup and .016" squish. I've never seen compression jump that much with breakin. It's just going to take some time to see it come up. It seems that Huskies have lower compression from the factory these days than Stihls do. But they run well none the less.



Looks really nice  - what is the current pitch and pin count?


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## blsnelling (Dec 21, 2009)

SawTroll said:


> Looks really nice  - what is the current pitch and pin count?



All but the last vid were with the .325 Carlton the saw came with. This last vid was with my .325 Stihl RSC chain. The rim is still the stock 7-pin. I'll let the owner decide what he wants to do with that. If he's heavy handed, he'll prefer the 7-pin. If not, it should be faster with an 8-pin.


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## Kansas (Dec 21, 2009)

Nice! Looks like a lot of power in that saw and not too loud either! 



Kansas


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## Terry Syd (Dec 21, 2009)

*Top of bore*

Hmm, hadn't thought about that. Since you dropped the jug the top of the bore hasn't been lapped in yet. Well, like you said, a few tanks will take care of that.


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## dingeryote (Dec 22, 2009)

Excellent work Brad!!!

And as usual ya edumacated me a bit with the play by play.

Good stuff!


Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## Woodcutteranon (Dec 22, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> It's not "required" even when ported. It just means that you have no way of tuning other than in the wood. You can't tune with a tach or by ear unless you replace it. For those reasons, I will not mod one of these for someone unless they're willing to spend the extra $40 for a used OEM coil.



Brad...I am not too familiar with tuning and I was wondering if you could explain this post a little more for me? What are the tuning principles involved with tuning in the wood or with a tach when running either a limited or unlimited coil. Thanks for your help.


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## SawTroll (Dec 22, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> All but the last vid were with the .325 Carlton the saw came with. This last vid was with my .325 Stihl RSC chain. The rim is still the stock 7-pin. I'll let the owner decide what he wants to do with that. If he's heavy handed, he'll prefer the 7-pin. If not, it should be faster with an 8-pin.



Sounds good to me!


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## TRI955 (Dec 22, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> I've got a question for you carb gurus. You'll notice that the saw goes leaner and leaner the more cuts I make with it. *It's not an air leak.* Every 346 I've worked on does this. Even my 346 with a 357 carb does the exact same thing. I simply tune the saw to its leanest point and it's fine. But let it set a few seconds and it's rich again at first. Could the carb be having trouble supplying enough fuel? Do you think raising the needle lever would help cure this characteristic? Could the tank vent be having trouble keeping up in extended cuts?



This is the exact same problem that I'm having with mine, raising the needle lever did not help either....


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## blsnelling (Dec 22, 2009)

TRI955 said:


> This is the exact same problem that I'm having with mine, raising the needle lever did not help either....



You need to tune it richer. It'll quit leaning out once you get it rich enough. It's not an air leak.


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## Log Hogger (Dec 31, 2009)

*noob question*



blsnelling said:


> No, I haven't ever messed with the plugs. Raising the needle lever seemed to help.



noob question: what is the "needle lever"? 

I have a 445 that is behaving in a similar fashion. Fuel line and tank vent check out fine. The problem arose in colder weather after I richened the carb.


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## Log Hogger (Dec 31, 2009)

*Nevermind, I found it*

it's the lever on the jet valve, right? Analogous to adjusting the float height on a regular carb?

How much do you suggest bending it?


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## ronT2 (Jan 31, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Here's the plan.
> 
> - Turn a .035" popup on the piston crown, leaving .100" crown thickness.
> - Mill cylinder base .030", for a final squish of .018".
> ...



Brad, I see your exhaust and transfers came in where you wanted them to but didn't notice what you wound up with on the intake.

The reason I ask is that I just did a 372 BB kit to the #s in this thread and love the way it runs. Know I'm eye balling my 2150.


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## HuskyMurph (Feb 24, 2010)

*deflector*



blsnelling said:


> The deflector is PN 503 58 99-01 and costs me $8.74.
> 
> The spark arrestor screen is PN 503 40 56-01 and costs me $4.97.
> 
> The screws are from the hardware store.



i have this deflector on order. just installed my none cat muffler on my 346 xp. wheni put this muffler deflector on do i have change the settings on the carb idle screw or high and low.?? if so about how much. also will that deflector work for my 372xp??? thanks huskymurph


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## blsnelling (Apr 6, 2010)

Article10 said:


> Might be temperature of the cyl assy. Try setting it up on a "warmed" up assy and see if it goes leaner with more cuts.
> 
> The tank vent may be an issue worth looking into.



I wanted to update this thread to post that the tank vent of the 346 does need some attention once ported. They aren't able to vent as quickly as the ported saw can burn the fuel. You will need to open up the passages in the vent path to provide for greater flow. Once you do this, the saw will quit going lean as you make repeated cuts. Thanks to Mike, aka Tri955, for finally sorting this out.


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## TRI955 (Apr 6, 2010)

Mike


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## woodyman (Apr 6, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> I wanted to update this thread to post that the tank vent of the 346 does need some attention once ported. They aren't able to vent as quickly as the ported saw can burn the fuel. You will need to open up the passages in the vent path to provide for greater flow. Once you do this, the saw will quit going lean as you make repeated cuts. Thanks to Mike, aka Tri955, for finally sorting this out.


 So does that mean I have to mod the tank vent on my 346 Brad and if so how is that done?And that saw in the last vid looks alot like mine


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## Log Hogger (Apr 7, 2010)

*I'm interested to know as well*

How does one go about opening up the tank vent passages?

Do I need a different tank vent for this?


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## luvsaws (Apr 7, 2010)

opcorn:


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## SawTroll (Apr 7, 2010)

woodyman said:


> So does that mean I have to mod the tank vent on my 346 Brad and if so how is that done?And that saw in the last vid looks alot like mine



Yes, you have to bore it out in the middle, streight trough the handlebar! :jawdrop::jawdrop:

On the serious side, I think they put the tank vent in an unconvenient place on those saws - actually my only complaint on them!


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## blsnelling (Apr 7, 2010)

Sorry to keep you waiting Woodyman. I've been in bed all day. I don't know if that was your saw in that vid or not. Remove the tank vent and use a drill to open up the hole in the plastic parts. I'm not sure if you need to drill down into the tank or not. If so, that'll require removing the tank. I actually left the hose off on my 372 because of vent issues.


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## lotawood (Apr 7, 2010)

I modified the tank vent on a 346, but haven't been able to test drive it yet. I have pictures, but never have posted on the internet before. 
What I did was 
1-empty gas tank on chainsaw
2- take front handle bar off. This allows spreading the gas tank base from the top end
3- set chainsaw on flywheel side and look where fuel line, vent hose and primmer return hoses run to fuel tank in the gap between the carb area and the fuel tank ( on the right side,behind the pto and in the gap that you spread between the top end and the fuel tank base).
4- take needle nose pliers and pull the middle hose and white plug out.
The white plug has two different ways to limit fuel flow. It has a rubber dampener (?) and two discs that look like aquarium air stones.
The first thing I did was gut everything. But the problem was when I refueled the chainsaw gas would siphon into the carburetor throat quicker than I would want. The other end of the vent hose ends in the carb intake, under the air filter.
The next thing I did was to replace the rubber dampener and the dampener keeper. Now the keeper has a small cone pointing down and the black dampener has a cone shaped recessed area on one side. So that is the way I put it in. Same thing, siphoning fuel.
The last thing I did was to flip the black diaphragm/dampener over so the point from the dampener and the point from the white keeper were touching. No siphoning while refueling.
Put hose and tank vent plug back in. Put on front handle bar.
Like I said I haven't tested it yet. I was having concerns about the saw getting leaner after multiple cuts. This was after a muffler mod.


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## bjorn773 (Apr 8, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Here's the plan.
> 
> - Turn a .035" popup on the piston crown, leaving .100" crown thickness.
> - Mill cylinder base .030", for a final squish of .018".
> ...



Brad, I'm not trying to hyjack the thread here, but am comparing your plan to what I currently have on my saw. 

With my aftermarket cylinder, I have the following numbers with no gasket installed:

Intake 77 deg 
Exhaust 107 deg
Transfer 130 deg

I have milled the cylinder .030" to achieve .016" squish when the .021" thick gasket is installed. Hindsight tells me I should have milled less and used a thinner gasket, but it's done now. 

Should I be raising my transfers and exhaust for more duration. I wasn't sure how your numbers would compare since I'm not using a pop-up. 

Here's a link to the thread for reference: http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=114159&page=7


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## blsnelling (Apr 8, 2010)

bjorn773 said:


> Brad, I'm not trying to hyjack the thread here, but am comparing your plan to what I currently have on my saw.
> 
> With my aftermarket cylinder, I have the following numbers with no gasket installed:
> 
> ...



107 is quite low on the exhaust. If you raise it, I wouldn't go any higher than 100. If you do so, I would raise the transfers about the same, to keep close to 25 of blowdown. 77 isn't bad on the intake. I assume this was measured after lowering the cylinder?

Now, if you just widen the ports, you will see good gains. Have you ported a saw before? If not, maybe do this in steps, and start just by widening the ports. First time through, don't touch the transfers. Eventually, you'll have to widen them towards the intake to hold the RPMs in the cut. With the single ring, you can go really wide on them.


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## bjorn773 (Apr 8, 2010)

I'm still a novice. This is my third porting job. I did a simple intake/exhaust on my 350. Then got into my 365BB, milled it and did intake/exhaust and transfer porting. I never messed with timing. This one I've milled (prior to taking the posted measurements). I have widened the intake and exhaust to 70% of bore diameter, ported the transfers to match the crankcase, tapered/beveled the transfer ports toward the intake. I have not modified any timing yet, other that what resulted from lowering the cylinder.


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## blsnelling (Apr 8, 2010)

bjorn773 said:


> I'm still a novice. This is my third porting job. I did a simple intake/exhaust on my 350. Then got into my 365BB, milled it and did intake/exhaust and transfer porting. I never messed with timing. This one I've milled (prior to taking the posted measurements). I have widened the intake and exhaust to 70% of bore diameter, ported the transfers to match the crankcase, tapered/beveled the transfer ports toward the intake. I have not modified any timing yet, other that what resulted from lowering the cylinder.



Well you're already ready for stage two then. Go for it!


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## bjorn773 (Apr 8, 2010)

I'll give it a whirl. Thanks.


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## bjorn773 (Apr 8, 2010)

Do you have any links handy for a good blowdown theory explanation?


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## bjorn773 (Apr 14, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> 107 is quite low on the exhaust. If you raise it, I wouldn't go any higher than 100. If you do so, I would raise the transfers about the same, to keep close to 25 of blowdown. 77 isn't bad on the intake. I assume this was measured after lowering the cylinder?
> 
> Now, if you just widen the ports, you will see good gains. Have you ported a saw before? If not, maybe do this in steps, and start just by widening the ports. First time through, don't touch the transfers. Eventually, you'll have to widen them towards the intake to hold the RPMs in the cut. With the single ring, you can go really wide on them.



I've been working on the ports. I'm at 102 on the exh and 125 on the trans. I left the intake alone at 77. Do you ever take into account the gasket when calculating the numbers. I notice you tend to use pretty thin gaskets. Mine is .021, so won't I gain a degree or two. Should I take that into account?


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## blsnelling (Apr 14, 2010)

bjorn773 said:


> I've been working on the ports. I'm at 102 on the exh and 125 on the trans. I left the intake alone at 77. Do you ever take into account the gasket when calculating the numbers. I notice you tend to use pretty thin gaskets. Mine is .021, so won't I gain a degree or two. Should I take that into account?



Definately. If you were to remove the gasket entirely, you'd be about 79° on the intake. Make sure you check your squish though.


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## TRI955 (Apr 14, 2010)

woodyman said:


> So does that mean I have to mod the tank vent on my 346 Brad and if so how is that done?And that saw in the last vid looks alot like mine





blsnelling said:


> Sorry to keep you waiting Woodyman. I've been in bed all day. I don't know if that was your saw in that vid or not. Remove the tank vent and use a drill to open up the hole in the plastic parts. I'm not sure if you need to drill down into the tank or not. If so, that'll require removing the tank. I actually left the hose off on my 372 because of vent issues.



What I did was remove the vent and drill a VERY small hole in to the tank just behind the vent filter, all has been well every since. I would not remove all the guts, it will leak fuel when turned on it's side. From what I understand, when Husky/Jonsered molds these tanks, the vent hole in the tank is very small, almost non-existant. When the saw is ported, the fuel demand goes up and the factory vent hole in the tank cannot keep up. I had no problems from the saw until after it was ported, muffler mod did not have any affect on the vent issue.


Mike


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## blsnelling (Apr 14, 2010)

TRI955 said:


> What I did was remove the vent and drill a VERY small hole in to the tank just behind the vent filter, all has been well every since. I would not remove all the guts, it will leak fuel when turned on it's side. From what I understand, when Husky/Jonsered molds these tanks, the vent hole in the tank is very small, almost non-existant. When the saw is ported, the fuel demand goes up and the factory vent hole in the tank cannot keep up. I had no problems from the saw until after it was ported, muffler mod did not have any affect on the vent issue.
> 
> 
> Mike



Thanks Mike. Believe it or not, I still need to do this to my own saw


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## TRI955 (Apr 14, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Thanks Mike. Believe it or not, I still need to do this to my own saw



Make sure when doing this, pay attention to the angle of the drill bit, not to drill through the outside of the tank. 


Mike


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## bjorn773 (Apr 14, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Definately. If you were to remove the gasket entirely, you'd be about 79° on the intake. Make sure you check your squish though.



My intake reading is 77 without a gasket . So with it installed I'll be around 75, correct? I can't eliminate it because I milled the cylinder with the gasket figured in to the equation. The .016" squish includes the .021 gasket. I should have milled less and used a thinner gasket. With no gasket, my piston would slam into the cylinder. Anyway, since assembled I'll be 75 on intake, should I lower it to achieve 80? Is my math correct in the exh and trans increasing with the gasket, going to 100 and 123 respectively?


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## blsnelling (Apr 14, 2010)

bjorn773 said:


> My intake reading is 77 without a gasket . So with it installed I'll be around 75, correct? I can't eliminate it because I milled the cylinder with the gasket figured in to the equation. The .016" squish includes the .021 gasket. I should have milled less and used a thinner gasket. With no gasket, my piston would slam into the cylinder. Anyway, since assembled I'll be 75 on intake, should I lower it to achieve 80? Is my math correct in the exh and trans increasing with the gasket, going to 100 and 123 respectively?



I think you've got it right on all accounts. I would go ahead and lower the intake to 80 if it were mine. Did you widen the transfers towards the intake? That makes a big difference. You've got lots of room to play since it's a single ring piston.


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## blsnelling (Apr 14, 2010)

TRI955 said:


> Make sure when doing this, pay attention to the angle of the drill bit, not to drill through the outside of the tank.
> 
> 
> Mike



That would certainly make for a bad day


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## bjorn773 (Apr 14, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> I think you've got it right on all accounts. I would go ahead and lower the intake to 80 if it were mine. Did you widen the transfers towards the intake? That makes a big difference. You've got lots of room to play since it's a single ring piston.



Yes, the transfers have been widened toward the intake. Thanks.


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## bjorn773 (Apr 14, 2010)

I did some porting over lunch. My intake is at 80, exh at 100 and trans at 123. These are with the base gasket installed. A bit of bevelling and I'll be ready to assemble. Would you recommend the vent mod while the saw is apart, or wait to see if it's an issue?


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## blsnelling (Apr 14, 2010)

bjorn773 said:


> I did some porting over lunch. My intake is at 80, exh at 100 and trans at 123. These are with the base gasket installed. A bit of bevelling and I'll be ready to assemble. Would you recommend the vent mod while the saw is apart, or wait to see if it's an issue?



Should be a screamin demon. Yes, I'd do the tank vent mod now.


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## bjorn773 (Apr 14, 2010)

TRI955 said:


> What I did was remove the vent and drill a VERY small hole in to the tank just behind the vent filter, all has been well every since. I would not remove all the guts, it will leak fuel when turned on it's side. From what I understand, when Husky/Jonsered molds these tanks, the vent hole in the tank is very small, almost non-existant. When the saw is ported, the fuel demand goes up and the factory vent hole in the tank cannot keep up. I had no problems from the saw until after it was ported, muffler mod did not have any affect on the vent issue.
> 
> 
> Mike



So you've just made the existing tank vent hole larger, then replaced the vent filter. The external parts are not modified, just the hole in the tank. I assume there must be at least a tiny hole there from the factory, right?


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## blsnelling (Apr 14, 2010)

bjorn773 said:


> So you've just made the existing tank vent hole larger, then replaced the vent filter. The external parts are not modified, just the hole in the tank. I assume there must be at least a tiny hole there from the factory, right?



I understood that he drills an additional hole into the tank, underneath the vent cap/insert, but still inside the recess it covers.


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## bjorn773 (Apr 14, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> I understood that he drills an additional hole into the tank, underneath the vent cap/insert, but still inside the recess it covers.



Is this normally an issue on the 372? I ported my 365BB last fall and haven't experienced any issues with fueling. However, I've only run a couple tanks through it. Just wondering if I should do the same to it.


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## blsnelling (Apr 14, 2010)

bjorn773 said:


> Is this normally an issue on the 372? I ported my 365BB last fall and haven't experienced any issues with fueling. However, I've only run a couple tanks through it. Just wondering if I should do the same to it.



I nearly burnt up my 372 due to tank venting issues. I removed the tube on it and all seems well. I didn't see a blockage, but it worked.


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## TRI955 (Apr 14, 2010)

bjorn773 said:


> So you've just made the existing tank vent hole larger, then replaced the vent filter. The external parts are not modified, just the hole in the tank. I assume there must be at least a tiny hole there from the factory, right?





blsnelling said:


> I understood that he drills an additional hole into the tank, underneath the vent cap/insert, but still inside the recess it covers.



Yes, you are both correct. I did nothing to the external parts.

There should be a tiny hole from the factory, but, some are too small and can't keep up with the fuel demand of a ported saw, it creates a vaccum in the tank and it cannot draw anymore fuel. If the saw was not ported, it wouldn't have ever been an issue.


Mike


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## bjorn773 (Apr 14, 2010)

Here is my tank with the vent plugs removed. The hole is about two inches down the narrow passage in the middle. I don't have a drill bit that will reach much less when chucked into a drill. Can I drill the aux. hole inside the outer diameter so only the outer screen covers it?


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## TRI955 (Apr 14, 2010)

Yes, just get down in there as far as the bit will allow, make sure to go down into the tank at an angle. Use the smallest bit possible,1/32 or so.


Mike


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## bjorn773 (Apr 15, 2010)

I have three drill bit sets and none go down to 1/32. Do you think 1/16 would be to big? Otherwise I can head to the hardware store.


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## TRI955 (Apr 15, 2010)

1/16 is kinda big IMO....


Mike


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## bjorn773 (Apr 15, 2010)

Ok, off to the hardware store.


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## TRI955 (Apr 15, 2010)

Keep us informed, if you need, send me a PM and I'll give you my # and you can call me.


Mike


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## bjorn773 (Apr 16, 2010)

Thanks Mike, I'm hoping to pickup the bit tonight. Reassembly time depends on how long the honey do list is this weekend. I'll post as soon as I hear it run.


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## bjorn773 (Apr 17, 2010)

I picked up a .030 number 68 drill bit. I put a hole in the original vent bore with the bit on an angle. Now, I'm trying to figure out which way these screens go. In one direction, gas seems to seep out, I can hear hissing as I move the tank around. I flip them both over and it seems to seal with no hissing. However, is this going to vent. It looks like one side is more solid than the other. Basically looks like pourous plastic of some sort, not brass like some of the other's I've worked on.


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## TRI955 (Apr 17, 2010)

I don't recall that, maybe I just got lucky and put it back in the correct way. I wouldn't think it would make much difference....


Mike


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## bjorn773 (Apr 17, 2010)

I've tried every combination but it seems to seep. However, I have the tank on a bench with the fuel line plugged. Pressure building in the tank has to go somewhere, so I suppose out the vent is where it would go.


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## bjorn773 (Apr 19, 2010)

I started reassembling the saw at lunch. I have a strange bind at BDC. I know it was not binding before when I was degreeing it. What should ring end gap be on these, perhaps the ring is hanging on a port. Everything is bevelled, but I never felt the bind until I put the ring on. The bind doesn't occur when the ring passes a port, just at BDC. Any ideas?


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## blsnelling (Apr 19, 2010)

You probably need to trim the bottom of the cylinder "skirts" that go into the crankcase recess. They're probably bottoming out and being forced inward by the case, pinching the cylinder. Make sure you didn't crank the "skirts" or base flanges where the bolts go.


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## bjorn773 (Apr 19, 2010)

Makes sense. I'll take a look tonight. Thanks.


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## bjorn773 (Apr 19, 2010)

There appear to be two problems. First, the piston skirt is dragging on the inside of the crankcase. It has shaved the slightest amount of crankcase material off. Second, the flywheel seems to be dragging ever so slightly on the underside of the piston. The first is most likely due to this being a larger piston than stock. It's an aftermarket version of the NE piston. The second is probably just poor casting. I will have to relieve the underside of the piston a bit to allow more clearance.


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## bjorn773 (Apr 20, 2010)

Maybe this is common sense, but better to ask before grinding. I plan to put some blueing on the flywheel and rotate to mark exactly where the piston underside is dragging. Then I will relieve the underside of the piston equally on both sides of the rod. Will this create a balance issue?


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## blsnelling (Apr 20, 2010)

Skirt to case clearance is not real uncommon on aftermarket pistons. Just relieve whatever's hitting.

I'm not real clear what you're saying is dragging on the underside of the piston. You mentioned the flywheel, which isn't possible, and you mentioned the rod. How would the rod be hitting the piston?


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## bjorn773 (Apr 20, 2010)

I'm sorry, you're right. It appears the crank counterweight is rubbing the underside of the piston at BDC. I can just make out some slight marks on the crank weight, but need to remove the piston to get a better look. I will put blueing on it, rotate a few times then remove the piston for inspection. I suspect the underside of the piston will need some slight relieving.


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## Cowboy Billy (Apr 20, 2010)

Awesome Brad

Now I want to mod my saws!

Billy


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## bjorn773 (Apr 21, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Skirt to case clearance is not real uncommon on aftermarket pistons. Just relieve whatever's hitting.



The piston was hitting the crankcase at BDC. Relieving the case did the trick.


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## TRI955 (Apr 21, 2010)

Well, does it run???


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## bjorn773 (Apr 21, 2010)

Not yet. Between two jobs and a family, my chainsaw mod time is pretty limited. I hope to have it running this weekend.


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## bjorn773 (Apr 22, 2010)

I'm working on my saw and noticed that looking through the exhaust port with the piston at BDC, about 3/32 of the piston is still visible through the port. The piston does not drop completely below the port. Is this going to be a problem. I did mill .030 off, but I have three times that much piston still in the port.


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## bjorn773 (Apr 23, 2010)

I reinstalled the oe p&c to see whether the piston dropped completely below the port and it did. So, my aftermarket cylinder exhaust port was slightly lower than the oe. I have raised the top of the port, so my duration is increased. Will the piston in the port at BDC be a problem or is this common on aftermarket cylinders?


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## blsnelling (Apr 23, 2010)

I wouldn't sweat it. There's nothing you can do about it anyway. As long as port timings are correct, the piston sticking up a little at BDC is not an issue.


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## bjorn773 (Apr 23, 2010)

Thanks Brad. I didn't intend to hijack your thread, but one question snowballed into many. I appreciate your help.


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## blsnelling (Apr 23, 2010)

bjorn773 said:


> Thanks Brad. I didn't intend to hijack your thread, but one question snowballed into many. I appreciate your help.



No problem. It was inactive anyway.


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## bjorn773 (Apr 24, 2010)

IT'S ALIVE... She fired right up and runs very well. I discovered my oil cap is cracked(translation: oil all over the driveway), so I'm off to the dealer to get a new cap. Then I'll shoot a vid and post if I can remember how.


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## blsnelling (Apr 24, 2010)

Excellent


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## bjorn773 (Apr 26, 2010)

Here's a link to my video. I couldn't get the imbedding to work. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCQl7tt3C70


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## blsnelling (Apr 26, 2010)

bjorn773 said:


> Here's a link to my video. I couldn't get the imbedding to work.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCQl7tt3C70



<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/pCQl7tt3C70&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/pCQl7tt3C70&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>


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## bjorn773 (Apr 26, 2010)

Thanks, how did you do that? And, how do you think it sounds?


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## TRI955 (Apr 26, 2010)

Looks good, can't hear it though, no sound at work. What kind of chain and wood??


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## bjorn773 (Apr 26, 2010)

Woodland Pro Chisel from Bailey's and soft maple. I'm anxious to see how it does in hardwood, but don't have any to try.


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## nmurph (Sep 18, 2010)

to wake up an older thread. i have two of these done and have not experienced any problem until this weekend. it was very hot and they were run for extended periods. mine problem doesn't seem to be so much of the leaning out as it is a slightly unstable idle and a tendency for them to be difficult to re-start after shutdown. i do think it is a problem with the vent as the problem is more evident with a full tank. i have both saws set a little rich still and this might be why i haven't noticed the progressive leaning-out. the saw which is ported more aggressively is definitely more prone to difficult re-start. the other saw just got some minor port work and a pretty substantial muffler mod. the saw which has more porting work is running a cat muff which i have guttted as much as possible with a grinder and drill bits. i plan to pull it apart and totally remove the cat element.
to clarify, i need to remove the vent and enlarge the opening in the tank? the "stone" part of the vent is fine?


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## bjorn773 (Sep 19, 2010)

That was my understanding and how I did it. I removed the vent filter and used a very small drill bit to open it up. Look back in the thread for the exact sizes. I found them at a hobby store, it's way too small a size for a hardware store to stock. Let us know how it works. I honestly have not used mine yet, other than the initial test after reassembly. I hope to do so in the coming weeks.


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## nmurph (Sep 20, 2010)

well, i opened the saw yesterday just to have a look, and the piston already has some light scoring on the exhaust side. the rings actually look fine (one very, very, tiny scuff) but i am replacing the piston. the was only a little bit of transfer on the cylinder and i took a few minutes to clean it. 

it will definitely have the tank vent situation rectified bf it hits the woods again.


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## Carl Anderson (Nov 22, 2011)

OK, so I want to do a muffler mod soon but I'm not going to port it (if I ever do that it will be sent to one of you guys who know what you're doing). I have the non-cat 346xpNE and a couple questions. 

1. If I'm reading all of this correctly I don't need the non-limiting coil if I'm just doing the muff mod but it's a good idea if I can get one for a decent price. Is that correct or am I really much better off just getting the non-limiting coil? Money is tight so if I can avoid pricey new parts that would be great.

2. With my non-cat muffler, all I have to do is get that different deflector and screen and open up the exit hole to match the footprint of the new deflector? Is that right, I don't have to take the muffler apart or do any fancy metal work?

Sorry if these questions have been answered. I really have been reading up but I just want to be sure of what I'm doing

Thanks!


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## Log Hogger (Nov 22, 2011)

If you swap out the carb for a Zama C3-EL42, you will have an extra line coming from the fuel tank that used to hook up to the primer bulb. Why not put a vent on that line and secure it someplace in the carb area? Whether a 357 carb offers any benefits is another matter...


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