# jammed log splitter



## richoj (Dec 27, 2006)

Some of your technical answers scare me, but here goes-------my 3 year old Central Hydraulics (Harbor Freight) splitter jammed and I would like some help in figuring out what went wrong and how to fix it.

The ram normally stops a few inches short of the backstop, but yesterday, the ran just kept coming and jammed into the backstop-----I cannot reverse it via running the engine and reversing the valve, but nothing moves. Also, I tried to move the ram back with a crow bar----no luck.

Any help is appreciated.


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## tocold4u2 (Dec 27, 2006)

*jammed splitter*

you will have to remove the lines , so you can relieve the pressure , then you should be able to move the ram back. sounds like you will need a new ram, blew the seals or something out that usually stops the ram.
that`s my guess
good luck


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## grandpatractor (Dec 27, 2006)

Are you saying that the ram has extended all the way out and won't return back in? If that is what you mean the nut has probably came of the piston and the pressure forced the rod all the way out. Try pushing the rod back in with a Bar with the valve held open and the engine off.


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## richoj (Dec 27, 2006)

Yes, the ram is extended all the way to the stop.

If I get the ram to go back, don't I still need to get the nut back on ? Also, they sell a seal kit, so I should be able to fix the seals---but how do I get the old seals out ? one end is welded---how does the other (ram) end come apart ?

thanks so far


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## grandpatractor (Dec 27, 2006)

there is a few different ways they are put together. some ends are threaded on and some are held in witha snap ring. pictures would help?
also how many ton or a model number


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## Buckeye (Dec 27, 2006)

do you have a photo of the cylinder?


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## grandpatractor (Dec 27, 2006)

Is there 2 holed or slots in the end plug where the rod comes out. I looked at the parts breakdown on HF website andthere is no snaprings and it appears to bethreaded in the end of the barrel of the cylinder


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## richoj (Dec 28, 2006)

there are no holes or slots in the ram end-----the back end is welded and it almost seems like you have to break the weld,repair seals and reweld.

i talked to Home Depot who said they had one that came out all the way----they drained the fluid (water in fluid) put in new fluid and it worked fine---i'm going to try that, but it would be good to know how to replace the seals

thanks to all---it feels good just to know that there are folks willing to help.


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## grandpatractor (Dec 28, 2006)

I have never seen a cylinder that you have to cut an end off to rebuild. The end with the rod will come off some how. If a snap ring isn't visible it most likely will screw out somehow. Does it look like there is a indentation a quarter inch from the end of the barrel where the rod comes out?


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## richoj (Dec 28, 2006)

grandpatractor---I LIED TO YOU----after "wiggling" around the ram, I was able to see two holes (maybe 3/16) 180 degrees apart on the ram faceplate---so, it probably threads off like you thought. It's easier to see that stuff with the ram off, but I first wanted to drain and refill it to see if that helps.

I need to be away for a while, but as soon as I get back, I'll work on the unit and post what I find so it may help someone else. 

HAPPY NEW YEAR !


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## redprospector (Dec 28, 2006)

I would almost guarantee that water in your oil is not the problem. If your oil is milky it won't hurt to change it, but that ain't the problem.
In my experience with hydraulics, grandpatractor is leading you down the right path.

Lesson #1: Never take advice from guys at Home Depot too seriously. :greenchainsaw:


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## sawinredneck (Dec 28, 2006)

redprospector said:


> Lesson #1: Never take advice from guys at Home Depot too seriously. :greenchainsaw:





That is great   Mind if I put that in my sig. line?


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## Frank Boyer (Dec 28, 2006)

If the rod nut came off inside the ram then go to a nylon type lock nut when you put it back together. Use red locktite for added insurance. I put the nut back on with a 1 inch impact gun that pulls around a thousand foot pounds (4 and 4 1/2 inch rams with 1 1/2" nuts). You can use a ten foot long bar/pipe though the rod eye to hold it while you tighten in up (If you don't have an impact then use a 4 ft pipe wrench with a cheater bar). Another way to hold it is to put it back in the spliter where the rod eye ususally goes, while you tighten the nut up.
Good Luck


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## Buckeye (Dec 28, 2006)

It looks like you are getting good support here. I'll second the notion that water is not likely to be the source of your troubles.

You need a spanner wrench to remove/install the end cap.


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## redprospector (Dec 29, 2006)

sawinredneck said:


> That is great   Mind if I put that in my sig. line?



Go for it.

Andy


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## sawinredneck (Dec 29, 2006)

redprospector said:


> Go for it.
> 
> Andy





Thank you sir  
Andy


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## EngineerDude (Dec 30, 2006)

richoj said:


> ---my 3 year old Central Hydraulics (Harbor Freight) splitter jammed ...



Hate to sound cynical, but "You get what you pay for" comes to mind. Central Hydraulics is the marketing-driven, American sounding name for Chinese manufactured junk. Rhetorical question, what did you pay for it, and did you think it would hold up as well as one from say NorthStar or TroyBilt or any other brand, domestic or imported, made with quality components and (here comes the important part) costing probably twice as much?

Yes, I know, you didn't want to spend a lot for something you weren't going to use much. Been there, done that, actually on a couple of different items from Harbor Freight. At this point, my goal is to never shop there again, for anything, but if I do, if will be only after consciously coming to the decision that whatever I'm buying needs to hold up to only the one-time use that's driving the purchase, and anything more is gravy, and that I won't be uspset when my piece of junk breaks.


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## mga (Dec 30, 2006)

EngineerDude said:


> Hate to sound cynical, but "You get what you pay for" comes to mind. Central Hydraulics is the marketing-driven, American sounding name for Chinese manufactured junk. Rhetorical question, what did you pay for it, and did you think it would hold up as well as one from say NorthStar or TroyBilt or any other brand, domestic or imported, made with quality components and (here comes the important part) costing probably twice as much?
> 
> Yes, I know, you didn't want to spend a lot for something you weren't going to use much. Been there, done that, actually on a couple of different items from Harbor Freight. At this point, my goal is to never shop there again, for anything, but if I do, if will be only after consciously coming to the decision that whatever I'm buying needs to hold up to only the one-time use that's driving the purchase, and anything more is gravy, and that I won't be uspset when my piece of junk breaks.



i may agree with you on certain items at Harbor Freight, but i've bought some things there that have outlasted similar tools i bought from sears. true, "you get what you pay for", but i've been ripped off by places like home depot as well as sears too.

Harbor Freight also has a decent return policy.


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## EngineerDude (Dec 30, 2006)

mga said:


> ...i've been ripped off by places like home depot as well as sears too...



Exceptions to every rule. But that said, the old adages "You get what you pay for", "If it seems to good to be true, it probably is!", "No free lunch", "Can't have your cake and eat it too", etc. sprang up for good reasons, and have merit.

I'm not *necessarily *suggesting that there's not situations where buying from Harbor Freight makese sense, but if you do so, set your expectations accordingly. I've seen the problems firsthand during time spent inside my company's factories in China, and I deal constantly with increased quality problems relating to cost-driven outsourced components and labor. Ex. Compressor casting that when sourced here were trouble free now generate frequent problems with micro-porosity. I could state 100 more examples, but won't.

Clearly the Harbor Freight business model caters to those customers who value low cost over quality, and as stated above, in general you can't have you cake and eat it too.

By the way, I wasn't going to get into this, but my real reason for no longer shopping often at Harbor Freight relates not to this quality thing, but rather to American jobs moving overseas. Corporate greed, facilitated by disgusting federal legislation has created a situation where for the first time in American history, our kids will on average enjoy a lower standard of living than this generation currently enjoys. Everything we buy today that's made in China that we would have bought yesterday from a U.S. manufacturer provides a job for a Chinese guy and takes it away from the guy who lives down the street from you. That's a problem for me. By the way, I also shop at the local hardware store whenver possible instead of at Home Depot, etc., for similar reasons.

Sorry for the soapbox thing. I had no intention to hijack this thread but this hit a hot button.


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## Buckeye (Dec 30, 2006)

There is a lot of wisdom in the previous post.

I'll just add this thought:
*"The bitterness of poor quality lingers far longer than the sweetness of a low price."*


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## mga (Dec 30, 2006)

fair enough, engineer dude. i'm agreeing with you 100%. as a former toolmaker for GM for 30 years, i understand completely.

that being said, cheap cylinder or not, there must be a reason why that thing bottomed out and stuck. since cylinders are basically the same; ie: rod with a piston, then either the rod is bent and hung up on the seals or the piston end broke. or, possibly the control valve messed up inside. removing the lines will prove that.

i'd try a hydraulic jack to back it up. what's the worst that could happen? it would break something that's already broke?


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## redprospector (Dec 30, 2006)

I'm not taking up for the Chinese, but I've had American made equipment break for lack of quality control.
You don't always get what you pay for, but you will always pay for what you get!!!

Andy


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## richoj (Jan 13, 2007)

hello, guys----I'm back working on my log splitter. I would like to tell you what I've done, and maybe get some more advice.

I made a tool to unscrew the faceplate---easy. The nut had come off, so I was able to just slide out the ram. Next, there are two sets of seals, both of which were about 10 inches back into the cylinder. These were tough to pull out, so I made a tool, kind of like a wheel puller---messy, but it worked and last, I got out the nut and washers. Cylinder was smooth---lucky.

HOWEVER, when I checked the nut and threads on the end of the ram, BOTH were stripped---can't figure how that could happen unless it was damaged at assembly. Am now looking to have the end turned down and rethreaded or, maybe I can just have someone weld the nut to the ram shaft?

Either way, I am puzzeled as to putting back the front seal. The rear seal is held on by the nut, but the front seal assembly doesn't seem to be "locked in" ----do I just put it in and screw in the faceplate ? does the oil pressure hold it in place ?

The last question I have is how do I replace the hydraulic oil---is there a certain way to do this?

Thanks for putting up with a beginner in log splitters.


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## Patrick62 (Jan 13, 2007)

*My thoughts*

I have rarely seen the inside of a cylinder, but here goes. I would think re-threading is a option. Not a bad guess that it was buggered from day one. Welding the nut back on is a kinda permanant fix, but the chances of having to service this again might make it worth it.

Replacing the oil is simple. Fill the tank, and then start the engine, low speed if possible. Run the ram about 1/2 way, then add fluid. Run it rest of the way, add more fluid. Then cycle it a few times, add more fluid. Eventually the bubbles will work out.

-Pat


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## richoj (Jan 13, 2007)

Thanks, Patrick62 and others.

I hate myself for doing this, but, you know, I posted to this site because I had a problem with my splitter that, for several reasons, I wanted to learn how to fix myself. How VERY surprised I was to be berated for buying a Harbor Freight item, including what was in my mind when I bought it.

There are many arguments which can be made for buying "American" or not. But this does not seem to be the forum for such discussions. I am here for receiving and giving help---God knows we don't have enough of either.

By the way, my splitter has a Briggs Stratton engine on it---does that count for anything. Also, I just read all the posts that Engineer has on this website, and, it appears that he has an opinion on just about everything---maybe he knows everything.

Sorry, guys, I won't do this again, but I wanted you all to know how thankful I am for your advice.


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## mga (Jan 13, 2007)

hell, man, who cares what brand your log splitter is? i've read posts here that some of the best of them break down. and, do you really care what others may think about where you bought it from?

aside from that, the last cylinder i took apart had the "piston" held on with just the nut. if those threads aren't that bad, you can easily have them turned again. if they are bad, then have the shop turn it down to the next size and get a nut to fit. as long as it holds the piston in place. 

ok, the nut had an O ring that went on before it and the piston had two cast iron rings. i'm not sure, or i didn't follow your post right, on how yours is made. if you have O rings, slightly grease them before trying to fit it back into the cylinder. they should be a tight fit, so be patient.

as for buying something all american made these days it's almost impossible.


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## turnkey4099 (Jan 14, 2007)

richoj said:


> Thanks, Patrick62 and others.
> 
> I hate myself for doing this, but, you know, I posted to this site because I had a problem with my splitter that, for several reasons, I wanted to learn how to fix myself. How VERY surprised I was to be berated for buying a Harbor Freight item, including what was in my mind when I bought it.
> 
> ...



Don't worry about it. As in any site there are those "snobs" who think only _their_ brand of anything is any good. Their other opinions are equally worthless IMO.

HF has varying quality merchandise, some poor, some good but I don't think any of it is 'worthless'. I have bought a lot of stuff, mostly cheap tools, through them and only lost out on one and for the price it was no loss. \

As to your question about Briggs. They have home owner models that aren't very good IMO but the commercial ones (which your's almost certainly is) is a good engine. I, personally, am partial to Honda, have 3, but my Briggs commercial (I/C) engine has been through 2 rototillers and is currently still plugging away on my splitter after 10 years. 

Again, anyone knocking Briggs is just a 'brand snob'.

Harry K


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## grandpatractor (Jan 14, 2007)

*seals*

as far as seals go there should be as follows
1 the piston which is held on by the nut that stripped off. most have 2 seals shaped like a v or a v with an O-ring in it they should face away from each other. there might be an o-ring where the shaft slides thru the piston too.
2 the end plug that you screwed out will have on the outer radius an o-ring and a backup ring (a flat ring same size as the o-ring) the back up ring will go on the air side of o-ring. then on the inside of the plug there should be another seal, maybe three. could be an o-ring and 2 v shaped seals they should all go in the same way you take them out. the shaft seal on the outside of the plug is usually pressed in (just use a large washer or a socket and drive it in with a hammer.)


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## stumpguy (Jan 14, 2007)

i try to buy quality eqipment, but this story defies that logic.

when i built my splitter about 15 years ago, the only part i skimped on was the engine. back then i didn't have much extra money. anyway, Northern had 5hp tecumseh engines on sale for $129. i figured it would last a couple years and by then i'd be more financialy stable to buy a honda or a Briggs IC.

well, now that i am much older and more financialy secure, that cheap a$$ tecumseh engine is still purring away after splitting a few hundred cords of wood. i almost wish it would die so i could upgrade to a Honda 8hp and a 16 gpm pump.

yes, you get what you pay for, but sometimes you get lucky too.


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## EngineerDude (Jan 14, 2007)

richoj said:


> ...I wanted to learn how to fix myself.



Understood, and admirable. I share this attitude on most things I purchase.



richoj said:


> How VERY surprised I was to be berated for buying a Harbor Freight item...



If you feel "berated", you've misinterpreted my message. Reread my posts. I made statements about HF, their quality and their business model, about what one's expectations (yours included) should be when purchasing from there, and about what I consider to be the far more dangerous dynamic of American jobs moving overseas due to operations such as HF. *Nowhere * in either post did I berate you for buying from them, and in fact I admitted I'd purchased from them as well, in the past. 



richoj said:


> There are many arguments which can be made for buying "American" or not. But this does not seem to be the forum for such discussions.



First of all, my arguments were not about buying American, they were about buying Chinese, and by extension, about buying "junk" (the term I used originally) from anywhere, most notably from places where the presence of low-cost, low-quality manufacturing has (fed by corporate greed and by the buying practices of U.S. customers) led to the closure of U.S. factories and the loss of American jobs. As to your statement that this is not an appropriate forum for such a message, I disagree.



richoj said:


> I am here for receiving and giving help---God knows *we don't have enough of either*.



Agreed. As I had no useful technical input, I chose to pursue another aspect of the question.



richoj said:


> Also, I just read all the posts that Engineer has on this website, and, it appears that he has an opinion on just about everything---maybe he knows everything.



Oh, give me a break! I neither have an opinion on "just about everything", nor do I know everything, nor do I behave as if I do, nor with very few exceptions do I make kneejerk statements.

Bottom line, I don't begrudge you help and support from this site or from anywhere else. In fact, I'm glad the members here have been able to help. But these forums are no place for having thin skin, and while you may not appreciate the fact that I used your situation as a vehicle to deliver an alternate message, I'm just going to ask you to look past it and move on.


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## EngineerDude (Jan 14, 2007)

turnkey4099 said:


> Don't worry about it. As in any site there are those "snobs" who think only _their_ brand of anything is any good. Their other opinions are equally worthless IMO.



Interesting response.


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## EngineerDude (Jan 14, 2007)

mga said:


> as for buying something all american made these days it's almost impossible.



Yeah, man. Pretty scary too, when in far too many cases the available alternatives include low-cost, low-quality "junk" products marketed to look American.

The really wild part is that in the "good old days", lots of this stuff *was *made in the U.S.A., by American workers. Now, many of the guys who once proudly worked for the companies that manufactured this stuff are laid off, and their companies' executives, who made the decision to close the plants and move them overseas, are sipping pina coladas in their beach-front homes, enjoying multi-million dollar bonuses for their "excellent" management.

By the way, one more time, this is not about buying American (e.g. my saw was made in Europe, yours probably was too), but about not buying "junk", which feeds the sucking noise made as American jobs rush elsewhere.)


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## turnkey4099 (Jan 15, 2007)

The 'buy american' train left the station way back. It started in the 60s when quality of foreign autos was head and shoulders above american. Also better understanding of what people really wanted in cars. Turned out they didn't really want land yachts that were 20 ft long with only 5 or 6 feet alloted to the passengers. The Edsel was a perfect example. It supposedly started as an answer to the smaller foriegn cars and ballooned into a detroit monstrosity. I was in the market back then and made one quick walk through and joined the parade giving the horse laugh to it.

Then other foriegn products began inroads.

Culminated in economics making it cheaper to move manufacturing and jobs off shore. 

I don't see any recovery. We are in a global community and them's the facts like it or not. I don't like it.

Harry K


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## CylinderService (Jan 15, 2007)

Sorry I haven’t been on for a few days, and missing the opportunity to throw in my 2 cents..
I’ve enjoyed reading about cylinder repair from you guys - having made a living doing it for 35 years. And there is a lot of good information and advice here. Listen to Grandpa for the voice of experience.
Piston nuts strip off the end of the rod because of pull force of course. So I’m not much of a fan of cutting it down to the next smaller size. And welding on the nut makes it difficult to make future repairs, and is often not as strong as the original threads. If the rod is worth saving (a large part of our business is making new rods), we would prefer building up the damaged rod threads with TIG weld, and recutting the threads (on a lathe). Hiring someone else to do this is probably worth more than the cylinder though.
If any of you need new seals, just send your old ones to us and we can match them up with new ones. It doesn’t matter who made the cylinder. (We will need your credit card number for this - it’s not exactly like “new lamps for old”!) 
As for buying American, everything Prince Hydraulics makes is 100% American. I’ve been to their plants and seen them doing it. So you don’t have to settle for a cheap cylinder from India, etc. And having seen the insides of lots of cylinders, I can tell you Prince makes a lot better quality cylinder.

Don the Hydraulics Guy


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## richoj (Jan 15, 2007)

Just when I thought I was getting on top of things, someone said that a possible cause of the nut coming off (and stripping) could be that a relief valve malfunctioned and pressure built up to where it blew the nut off the piston-----is this possible---and, if so, where do I look for the valve and check it ?

I had heard that the filter could have a check valve in it, but its on the return (low pressure) side. My filter was leaking, but I tightened it and the leak stopped.


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## CylinderService (Jan 15, 2007)

richoj,
If your relief valve had stuck it could have blown off the piston, but very unlikely. A stuck relief will almost always blow a hose, or split the pump. The cylinder is rarely the weak point. Even so, relief valves rarely stick. Much more likely that the threads were cut too loose, so they were weak, and using the cylinder to pull a stuck log off the wedge pulled the nut off the rod end. I wouldn't worry about the relief, other than to check the maximum setting with a pressure gauge on the inlet side of the valve. I don't like to see them set higher than 2500 PSI. You'll find the relief valve on the inlet side of your directional valve.
Your filter does have a very low pressure bypass valve to keep a clogged filter from blowing up, but that isn't an issue here. And your filter is in the right place too. Inlet filters are hard on pumps.
So I think the problem was the cylinder itself, and not the result of something else being wrong. Fix or replace the cylinder, and go back to splitting wood.

Just an opinion from an old guy with oily hands.

Don


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## Frank Boyer (Jan 15, 2007)

*Rebuilding the cylinder*



richoj said:


> Just when I thought I was getting on top of things, someone said that a possible cause of the nut coming off (and stripping) could be that a relief valve malfunctioned and pressure built up to where it blew the nut off the piston-----is this possible---and, if so, where do I look for the valve and check it ?
> 
> I had heard that the filter could have a check valve in it, but its on the return (low pressure) side. My filter was leaking, but I tightened it and the leak stopped.



I had problems with the cylinder rod retaining nuts coming off of my back hoe when I first got it. The solution was to use red locktite, nylon lock nuts and get the nut tight enough. My hoe uses 4" and 4 1/2" diameter cylinders with 1 1/2" nuts and they torque to 1500 foot pounds. That is a 200 pound person hanging from a 7 1/2 foot long cheater bar, or a 1" impact gun that I used for the tires on my Peterbuilt. The piston on a log spliter is being pushed into the rod when a log slpitter is loaded. On back hoes the piston takes a full load in both directions.


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## grandpatractor (Jan 15, 2007)

CylinderService said:


> richoj,
> If your relief valve had stuck it could have blown off the piston, but very unlikely. A stuck relief will almost always blow a hose, or split the pump. The cylinder is rarely the weak point. Even so, relief valves rarely stick. Much more likely that the threads were cut too loose, so they were weak, and using the cylinder to pull a stuck log off the wedge pulled the nut off the rod end. I wouldn't worry about the relief, other than to check the maximum setting with a pressure gauge on the inlet side of the valve. I don't like to see them set higher than 2500 PSI. You'll find the relief valve on the inlet side of your directional valve.
> Your filter does have a very low pressure bypass valve to keep a clogged filter from blowing up, but that isn't an issue here. And your filter is in the right place too. Inlet filters are hard on pumps.
> So I think the problem was the cylinder itself, and not the result of something else being wrong. Fix or replace the cylinder, and go back to splitting wood.
> ...



I'll second that.


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## richoj (Jan 19, 2007)

Status Report-------I bought a new nut---24 mm, 1.5 fine thread and had the piston threads trued up.

My thinking is to tighten the nut as much as I can and to drill the shaft in back of the nut and put in a "roll pin" so the nut cannot back off again and use red locktite. 

Does any of this make sense?

Really amazed at the help you guys provide.


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## Buckeye (Jan 19, 2007)

If you are set on this method, I would cross-drill through the nut *and* the rod. I would also use a solid pin instead of a roll pin. If space permits, you could even use a 1/4" or 5/16" bolt and lock nut.


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## grandpatractor (Jan 20, 2007)

Buckeye said:


> If you are set on this method, I would cross-drill through the nut *and* the rod. I would also use a solid pin instead of a roll pin. If space permits, you could even use a 1/4" or 5/16" bolt and lock nut.



Good Idea!


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## CylinderService (Jan 21, 2007)

Richoj,

Not to get into a technical argument here, but...
If your original nut just backed almost all the way off before it let go, putting a new nut on the original, trued-up threads may be strong enough. Adding a cross pin will keep the nut from unscrewing, but won’t add much if any strength. (Otherwise nuts would be unnecessary and pistons could be held on by crosspins.) The loctite will dependably keep the nut from unscrewing if the metal is cleaned well first, so the crosspin isn’t necessary, and crossdrilling your rod stud weakens it greatly, and makes it likely that the threads will gall when the nut is removed later. It also introduces the possibility of a loose pin tearing up the inside of your cylinder someday. Because of this, we almost never use pins or setscrews to retain pistons or nuts inside cylinders.
If however the original nut stripped off the stud, just cleaning up the threads so a new nut will screw on will leave the combination much weaker than it originally was, and likely to happen all over again. That’s why I recommended adding metal (weld) to the rod threads before putting on a new nut.
But it’s your cylinder, and your wallet, so its not our decision. And we don’t have to live with the consequences. You’ve really stimulated a great discussion, and for that I thank you.

Don the Hydraulics Guy


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## richoj (Jan 22, 2007)

Ok---didn't think this would get that technical, but here goes------the nut did "blow" off the piston end, and I'm not sure how to judge the wear on the piston threads. However, there are enough untouched threads ahead of where the nut was originally (hopefully, these were not undercut at the outset, but since the splitter worked for two years, I have to think they were ok). 

My thinking about the rollpin is that if I eliminate the washer and lock washer and use a rollpin to hold the nut from backing off, I can tighten the nut onto these threads. Since the shaft is two inches in diameter and I hope to use a 3/16 rollpin,I don't see how that can weaken the shaft appreciablly. I seem to want to trust the rollpin more than just locktite.

My reluctance to having it welded is that I can buy an entire new cylinder assembly for about the same as welding and threading. Also, I plan to be rea careful not to lte the splitter dislodge any "stuck" logs since this is where you folks say the greatest back pressure is.

I still have an open mind and would like to hear if I'm really off base. Thanks.


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## richoj (Jan 22, 2007)

OOPS, sorry---shaft is one inch in diameter


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## tawilson (Jan 22, 2007)

Can you double nut it?


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## mga (Jan 22, 2007)

richoj said:


> Ok---didn't think this would get that technical, but here goes------the nut did "blow" off the piston end, and I'm not sure how to judge the wear on the piston threads. However, there are enough untouched threads ahead of where the nut was originally (hopefully, these were not undercut at the outset, but since the splitter worked for two years, I have to think they were ok).
> 
> My thinking about the rollpin is that if I eliminate the washer and lock washer and use a rollpin to hold the nut from backing off, I can tighten the nut onto these threads. Since the shaft is two inches in diameter and I hope to use a 3/16 rollpin,I don't see how that can weaken the shaft appreciablly. I seem to want to trust the rollpin more than just locktite.
> 
> ...



so, what you're saying is the nut apparently backed off several turns, then during some use of the splitter, the piston forced it the rest of the way off. i wasn't sure what you meant by "blown off".

i have to side with cylinder services and suggest NOT using any pins. if you have enough good threads on the rod end, why not just clean it up, put the nut back on and use *loc-tite*?? once dried, that nut isn't going anywhere and your problem stemmed from the nut backing off, allowing play on the piston end...forcing the nut off the remaining threads.


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## richoj (Jan 22, 2007)

OK---"blown off" means that the threads on both the nut and shaft were partially stripped---then the nut apparently was forced off. 

Looks like the vote is to clean up the threads, use locktite and maybe double nut the shaft---I can only do that by NOT using the lock washer---is that ok ? Last, what is so bad about using a pin of some kind ?---pin coming loose ?---weakening the shaft ?

What about a pin in BACK of the nut (hole only thru the shaft,but not the nut)---like they do with propellers on outboard motors ?

Not trying to split hairs, this is just a subject I know nothing about. Thanks again.


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## bigbadbob (Jan 22, 2007)

What about a "lock nut" the ones that can't come off. One face of the nut is made so it can't come undone. I am not sure what they are called but see them lots where you don't want a nut to come off. Then you could use both washers and loc-tite.


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## mga (Jan 23, 2007)

richoj said:


> OK---"blown off" means that the threads on both the nut and shaft were partially stripped---then the nut apparently was forced off.
> 
> Looks like the vote is to clean up the threads, use locktite and maybe double nut the shaft---I can only do that by NOT using the lock washer---is that ok ? Last, what is so bad about using a pin of some kind ?---pin coming loose ?---weakening the shaft ?
> 
> ...



having that nut back off was kind of unique. it most likely wasn't torqued tight enough since day one. the pressure applied to force it off of the rod end was during the *return* stroke, since this is when the piston is being forced against it. it just kept slapping against it over the years and eventually pushed it off. during the *push* stroke, the piston is forced against the rod, not the nut. 

use the lock washer (if still good) and use loc-tite on the nut. torque it tight and that should last you until the cylinder ever needs to be replaced. no need to over kill. almost all cylinders are designed that way.

as Cylinder Services stated, having a foreign object in the cylinder is asking for more trouble....probably why manufacturers don't do that.


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## CylinderService (Jan 23, 2007)

I think you should trust the loctite. And I think you're trusting the rolpin more than is justified. Virtually none of the construction & industrial cylinders we see have lockwashers (or rolpins). Clean the threads with alchohol, or some kind of non-residue cleaner, and use red loctite (we use 277, but any of the 260's are OK). LET IT CURE OVERNIGHT. Make sure the nut is really tight! 1" studs should be 400 - 500 ft-lb. Loctite failures are almost always caused by loose parts, dirty surfaces, or not letting it cure. If you do it right, you'll have to heat the nut with a torch to get it off. Using a second nut is your decision. Just be sure its got good threads to grip so it doesn't come off and float around your cylinder.

And if you get any more "help" with this project, you may never get it done!

Don


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## richoj (Jan 24, 2007)

Yea, I got an "A" in school in Procrastination. Only reason I mentioned the lock washer was that there was one there when I took it apart.

You're right----no more posts from me 'till I get it running !

Really appreciate all the help.


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## GlennG (Jan 24, 2007)

EngineerDude said:


> Exceptions to every rule. But that said, the old adages "You get what you pay for", "If it seems to good to be true, it probably is!", "No free lunch", "Can't have your cake and eat it too", etc. sprang up for good reasons, and have merit.
> 
> I'm not *necessarily *suggesting that there's not situations where buying from Harbor Freight makese sense, but if you do so, set your expectations accordingly. I've seen the problems firsthand during time spent inside my company's factories in China, and I deal constantly with increased quality problems relating to cost-driven outsourced components and labor. Ex. Compressor casting that when sourced here were trouble free now generate frequent problems with micro-porosity. I could state 100 more examples, but won't.
> 
> ...




Eng.Dude, I agree with you on all points. I`d also like to add that I refuse to shop at Wall-Mart . 

Well said, my hat is off to you.

GlennG


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## VelvetFoot (Mar 8, 2011)

*.*

A long time since the last post I know, but I just fixed my leaking HF 30 ton splitter. I only put about 7 cords through it, and it leaked fairly bad from where the ram went into the cylinder. Upon taking it apart, I found that the nut was only marginally hand tight, a 2" o-ring was missing (!) and a 1.5" o-ring was chopped up, probably because the nut was loose. I got both o-rings at the local Ace Hardware store, tightened up the nut with a 24" adjustable wrench (from Harbor Freight, where else  ). Started right up (love the Robin 9 hp engine), and didn't leak at all. The love is back!


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## olyman (Mar 9, 2011)

VelvetFoot said:


> A long time since the last post I know, but I just fixed my leaking HF 30 ton splitter. I only put about 7 cords through it, and it leaked fairly bad from where the ram went into the cylinder. Upon taking it apart, I found that the nut was only marginally hand tight, a 2" o-ring was missing (!) and a 1.5" o-ring was chopped up, probably because the nut was loose. I got both o-rings at the local Ace Hardware store, tightened up the nut with a 24" adjustable wrench (from Harbor Freight, where else  ). Started right up (love the Robin 9 hp engine), and didn't leak at all. The love is back!


 
did u put some blue loctite on the threads??? it only stops the nut from coming loose--and dont need a torch to get it off--


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## VelvetFoot (Mar 9, 2011)

No, I did not use loctite. The way I look at it, this was a manufacturing deficiency and that big lock washer precluded the need for loctite. Plus, I really leaned on that 24" long adjustable wrench.


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