# Think I got screwed



## sisco (Sep 28, 2007)

Although I have been cutting trees for a few years I have never bothered with taking any logs to the mill. I tried last week for the first time. I laid down 5 red oak logs and cut them 12.6 and 4 white oak logs at the same length. These were perfectly straight with no limbs. The largest was red oak was 29 inches at the base and 23 at the top. All the others were 16 inches to 22 inches. I carried them to a mill here in eastern Va. and they graded them. The red oak was 1st grade as was one of the white oak logs and the rest was 2nd grade according to them. I got a check today for 225.00 dollars for the wood. Honestly I could probably got that in firewood. Bear with me if this is stupid but I always heard that oak wood payed good. I realize no one could tell me what the actual value of the logs were without seeing them but shouldnt they have been more than 225.00. I called the mill owner and asked a couple of questions and he told me how the try to keep a good rep and then told me dont come back to him anymore and broke nasty with me. Am I on the wrong track here. Thanks for your input.


----------



## rb_in_va (Sep 28, 2007)

Not an expert on wood values, but I do know that oak is not as popular now for furniture and such as it was 10 years ago or so. Just a thought.


----------



## PA Plumber (Sep 28, 2007)

The sheet I have is from a northern Pennsylvania mill for last winter's pricing. 
#1 Red Oak $600.00/thousand board feet
#1 White Oak $500.00/thousand board feet


So... Red Oak log: 12' plus trim & 23" on small end = approx. 280 bf scribner scale
White Oak: 12' plus trim & 16" on small end = approx. 120 bf scribner scale

1st log value: 280 bf x $0.60/bf = $168.00
2nd log value: 120 bf x $0.50/bf = $60.00
Total for the #1 logs $228.00

If your check was for all 9 pieces then it looks to me like some logs might have missed the scale.


----------



## ents (Sep 28, 2007)

This is from a mill here in N.C. 
Red & White Oak: 
Select (18" & up, 4 clear side) $450
Prime (15" & up 4 clear side) $400
#1 (14" & up 3 clear side) $250
#2 (12" & up 3 clear side) $ 200
#3 (8" & up) $150
SCALED ACCORDING TO INTERNATIONAL RULE

These prices are 2 yrs. old and I'm sure the price has gone down. All our local mills are fat with logs. The last time I brought a load in the manager asked me (very nicely) not to bring any more in. I understood since he was overflowing and his contracted for wood was still coming in.

All in all you probably did o.k. Now if you are set up to do fire wood and it's cost effective, and you have a market for it, you probably could do better (lot more work, but...). I only take Oak & Hickory for my own personal fire wood now. Still doing pine logs for OSB but that's a whole different animal.


----------



## ents (Sep 28, 2007)

I didn't do the math as PA did so my "looks like you did o.k." may be in error.

Also looks like the prices are a LOT better in P.A. Wish they were that high down here.


----------



## sisco (Sep 28, 2007)

Thanks for all the help. I think ill just make firewood next go round.


----------



## omegajim (Sep 28, 2007)

Damn, cheaper to sell oak as firewood than lumber. That's just plain wrong.

At a time when they sell 'veneer' this and 'veneer' that, Oak isn't in that strong of demand? 

Makes you wonder how much the guy running the mill was trying make in the process. Or the guy he sells to marks up. Somewhere there is a significant mark up.


----------



## sloth9669 (Sep 28, 2007)

*to bad*

Its a shame that you cant at least get what the logs would be worth in firewood ? talk about a mis use of great wood. O well to woodstove she goes. Ask around in here and see if someone mills near you drop the good stuff off to them ?


----------



## Husky137 (Sep 29, 2007)

Oak prices have been in the crapper for a couple of years now. The canadians are paying pretty good for hardwood and pine.


----------



## Wood Hick (Sep 29, 2007)

They know someone inexperienced when they see them, not unlike any other business that buys from someone else. They paid you for your two nice logs, and they took the rest for free. I had a dozen oak logs a few years ago the size of your smaller ones. I called a local mill that was new to me because my long time mill man passed away. The scheister told me they were basically worthless, but offered a ridiculously low price. I instead had a band mill make them into 1" boards, stickered and dried them for a year or so, and took the whole pile to a consignment auction. The boards brought $275.00, the milling had cost me $60.00. Still made out over $100.00 higher than the mill offer. They really do not like to mess with small quanities of logs from "small" operators. ( And if you don't watch, check, and recheck, they will put the screws to a "big" operator just as quickly)


----------



## Pete6 (Sep 30, 2007)

Wood Hick said:


> They know someone inexperienced when they see them, not unlike any other business that buys from someone else. They paid you for your two nice logs, and they took the rest for free. I had a dozen oak logs a few years ago the size of your smaller ones. I called a local mill that was new to me because my long time mill man passed away. The scheister told me they were basically worthless, but offered a ridiculously low price. I instead had a band mill make them into 1" boards, stickered and dried them for a year or so, and took the whole pile to a consignment auction. The boards brought $275.00, the milling had cost me $60.00. Still made out over $100.00 higher than the mill offer. They really do not like to mess with small quanities of logs from "small" operators. ( And if you don't watch, check, and recheck, they will put the screws to a "big" operator just as quickly)



For all that extra effort and time you only made an extra $100? That makes the mill offer look good to me.
I know that some mills are very wary of logs that might have contaminants in them. Some mills won't take logs that don't come from plantations because of that risk. It really is hard to get log wood to pay the way it seems they ought to for some reason. Maybe we're all living in the lands of plenty.


----------



## Rusty (Sep 30, 2007)

*Screwed*

I guess there are guys that can tell what the wood is going to look like inside, but I seem to get surprised all the time. If the oak comes out low grade its just as good to make firewood.


----------



## olyman (Oct 1, 2007)

and--since he got mad at ya--seems he was in the wrong---


----------



## DGDrls (Oct 1, 2007)

*Comps @Doyle Scale*

9 logs total 12' each.

Red oak
1 at 12'X23" 271 B.F
4 at 12' (ave19"dia) 676 B.F.
947 B.F. red oak. 

White Oak
4 at 12' (ave19"dia) 676 B.F.
New York State stumpage report
ave. red oak $390/1000bf
ave white oak $250/1000bf

Red 947X.39=$369.33
White 676X.25=$169
Total 538.33 

I think when you called him back he realized you knew something was up.

DGDrls


----------



## ASD (Oct 1, 2007)

i would be     we get more then that from the fire wood guy:bang:


----------



## cantcutter (Oct 16, 2007)

When ever I sell logs I call ahead and get the prices direct from the log buyer... if I don't like the price I call a couple more places to see what their offer is....Usually end up going with the closest place, but then I can say.....well this guy over here is paying this......Just don't make the figure up...they all know what the next guy is paying, it just helps to let them know that you know what the next guy is paying.
Also those price guides the state forestry dept puts out quarterly; I have never found a place paying what the guide says they are.


----------



## omegajim (Oct 17, 2007)

So, generally speaking, around 30 cents a board foot for Oak, maybe less.

Where does walnut come in, by way of comparison?


----------



## cantcutter (Oct 17, 2007)

The money in walnut is in veneer grade logs.... sawlogs run simular to oak except for stock blanks and other specialty cuts.


----------



## treeman82 (Oct 20, 2007)

I took a few logs to a mill about 2 winters ago. 2 logs were 8 footers, but both were clean and 850 bd ft when put together. The remainder of the logs brought it to 1250 bd ft. I even went into the yard with the guy while he scaled it. I got grade 1 on the big 2 because they weren't long enough... I had issues there. The others went pallet grade. They gave me $450. Trucking was $500. I owed them money afterwards. Black oak at the time was somewhere around $1,200 / MBF for veneer... the guy even said they would have come in as veneer if they hadn't been cut to 8'. You wanna talk about mad??? :angry2: I only cut them that length because his truck driver wouldn't lift it.


----------



## Hometown Tree (Oct 21, 2007)

i've got a black walnut log. it is about 18 ft long and 24" wonder what that is worth?


----------



## Ryan Willock (Oct 22, 2007)

Ah yes, nothing like a good dry holeing from the sawmills!!!:jawdrop: A little lube helps but mills are good for that especially if they know they have a first timer! The log market does suck right now though. I mean bad suck! Thats why I've all but quit logging. I did have two crews going a year and a half ago but have since shut them down and sold all the equipment except for a dozer with a winch. Next time go to the mill BEFORE you cut/bring in logs and ask to speak with the log buyer. Get him to show you how HE grades and scales the logs and how HE likes to see them bucked. Also get a spec sheet while you are there, go home and order a log rule that uses the same measure as what the mill buyes with. Then you can do your own grading and scaling before you haul so that you have some idea as to what you have. With hardwood logs bucking at the wrong spot can REALLY kill the value of the tree. What part of Va are you it?


----------



## PA Plumber (Oct 22, 2007)

Hometown Tree said:


> i've got a black walnut log. it is about 18 ft long and 24" wonder what that is worth?



Sounds like the answere is...

What ever the mill is willing to pay.


----------



## Rftreeman (Oct 26, 2007)

here is some advice I got from guys here, ask the mill what scale they use and get you a rule stick and then you can figure the board feet before you go and you will know if you got paid for it all, I personaly think you got screwed, as state before, I think you got paid for the #1 and nothing else, this happens a lot to people who don't understand how things work.


----------



## cantcutter (Oct 27, 2007)

treeman82 said:


> I took a few logs to a mill about 2 winters ago. 2 logs were 8 footers, but both were clean and 850 bd ft when put together. The remainder of the logs brought it to 1250 bd ft. I even went into the yard with the guy while he scaled it. I got grade 1 on the big 2 because they weren't long enough... I had issues there. The others went pallet grade. They gave me $450. Trucking was $500. I owed them money afterwards. Black oak at the time was somewhere around $1,200 / MBF for veneer... the guy even said they would have come in as veneer if they hadn't been cut to 8'. You wanna talk about mad??? :angry2: I only cut them that length because his truck driver wouldn't lift it.



Our local veneer plant only buys 12 ft logs.... if its not 12 ft its not veneer. Sounds to me like you sold to a log yard? You could do better if you sell directly to the mill and aviod the middle man... a sawmill will not grade anylog as veneer because they don't cut veneer and a veneer plant will not buy sawgrade logs. it requires that you have some basic knowlwge of log grading so you can do the sorting on the landing.


----------

