# Permatex Motoseal and yamabond?



## MS460WOODCHUCK (May 21, 2011)

I'm needing to purchase one of the 2 to use as a gas tank gasket on a couple old magnesium saws. I've read alot of your post about the 2 and need a little more info on them.

Is one better than the other? If I use these I don't need any kind of gasket at all but these right? If I use the yamabond what # is it? I see that there is a few different #'s. Is there another product out there that is as good as these.

Thanks ahead of time for the help guys!


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## cpr (May 21, 2011)

Haven't paid much mind to differences between them, but as I understand ThreeBond 1194 is the same basic stuff and it works great, for what it's worth.


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## promac850 (May 21, 2011)

Direct gas contact?

I do not know about those, but I can tell you that Permatex Ultra Blue is real good against gas.

I've tried it myself. It works.


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## blsnelling (May 21, 2011)

Permatex specifically recommends against using Ultra Blue for products that come in contact with gasoline. It will not work for tank halves. None of the silicones will AFAIK. Products like 1194, yamabond, and MotoSeal are intended for those applications.


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## Modifiedmark (May 21, 2011)

ms460woodchuck said:


> I'm needing to purchase one of the 2 to use as a gas tank gasket on a couple old magnesium saws. I've read alot of your post about the 2 and need a little more info on them.
> 
> Is one better than the other? If I use these I don't need any kind of gasket at all but these right? If I use the yamabond what # is it? I see that there is a few different #'s. Is there another product out there that is as good as these.
> 
> Thanks ahead of time for the help guys!


 
John, are you talking about replacing the cork tank gaskets on like a 10-10 or 306? 

If so I'm not sure about just using moto seal. If your talking sealing to flat metal surfaces then yes thats the ticket, no gasket needed. 

If trying to replace the cork gasket on a tank cover, you would almost need to let the sealant cure before installing.


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## Modifiedmark (May 21, 2011)

promac610 said:


> Direct gas contact?
> 
> I do not know about those, but I can tell you that Permatex Ultra Blue is real good against gas.
> 
> I've tried it myself. It works.



Your wrong



blsnelling said:


> Permatex specifically recommends against using Ultra Blue for products that come in contact with gasoline. It will not work for tank halves. None of the silicones will AFAIK. Products like 1194, yamabond, and MotoSeal are intended for those applications.


 
I agree


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## Honkie (May 22, 2011)

yes


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## brad1000s (May 22, 2011)

Yamabond 5 is not worth you time or money. Way to runny and doesn't seem to coat very well. On the other hand Hondabond is the best stuff i have ever used. I used it to seal a leaky tank on a husky 50. It has a nice grey color and does not stick out like a sore thumb like the blue stuff. My 2 cents.


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## FireMan2285 (May 22, 2011)

well what i use on tank halves is indian head gasket shellac compound.and it says on the back of the bottle that it is for leak proof gaskets and threaded assemblies.to apply a thin coat on both parts.and then allow to dry.then assemble them back on.it will reist water,steam,petrolum products <--( gasoline) and antifreeze.and i haven't had a problem out of it useing it on chainsaws.


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## David (saltas) (May 22, 2011)

*ThreeBond 1194*

one more vote for ThreeBond 1194


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## David (saltas) (May 22, 2011)

ThreeBond 1194 Liquid gasket (gray)




ThreeBond 1194 is a semidrying liquid gasket whose major component is special synthetic rubber. After it is applied and dried, it will form a rubber-like elastic body. Since it excels in padding property, it shows a high sealing effect on bonded surfaces that have poor flatness and large clearance. In addition, it has excellent resistance to water, oil and gasoline.



·	High padding property
It shows an excellent sealing effect not only on normal bonded surfaces, but also on bonded surfaces with large clearance.
·	Excellent resistance to vibration and impact
After applied and dried, it will form a rubber-like elastic body and exhibit excellent resistance to vibration and impact.
·	Excellent resistance to high and low temperatures
It keeps stable rubber elasticity in a wide temperature range from -40°C to 150°C.
·	Excellent resistance to water and oil
·	Effective in preventing leak from threaded portions



·	Sealing of flange surfaces and threaded portions
·	Applicable to sealing of flange surfaces having large clearance



Properties

Item	Unit	Property	Test method	Remarks
Appearance	-	Gray	3TS-201-02 
Viscosity	Pa·s	9.5	3TS-210-02	25°C/BH-type, No.5-20 rpm
Specific gravity	-	1.25	3TS-213-02	25°C
Heating residue	%	58.0	3TS-217-01 
Tack-free time	min	12	3TS-219-04 
Solvent	-	Xylene	- 

* These data are not our quality assurance values, but representative values.

Physical properties after curing

Physical properties after curing

Item	Unit	Physical property after curing	Test method
Tensile strength	MPa	0.12	3TS-320-01
Elongation	%	900 - 1000	3TS-320-01
Hardness	A	25	3TS-215-01

Note) Curing conditions: At 25°C for 2 weeks

Effect on rubber (change in mass)

Kind	Unit	Mass change	Test method
NR	wt%	+35	3TS-229-01 
(immersion at 25°C for 24 hrs.)
CR	wt%	+44
SBR	wt%	+55
NBR	wt%	+42
EPDM	wt%	+71


Characteristics

Pressure resistance

Condition	Unit	Pressure resistance value	Test method
Room temperature	MPa	10.0	3TS-350-02
(JIS K 6820)
80°C	MPa	8.0
150°C	MPa	8.0

Test conditions
·	Surface finish: 6.3S
·	Surface pressure: 15.7 MPa
·	Clamping bolt: JIS B 1180, M12 bolt, Class 2, 6 pcs.
·	Flange material: JIS G 3101, Type 2 SS41
·	Hydraulic medium: Turbine oil No.1
·	Applied flange: 90 mm in OD, 60 mm in ID and 15 mm in width across flats
·	Tightening: 27.5 N·m
·	Rate of application of pressure: Increase of 0.5 MPa per minute

Width across flats and pressure resistance (at room temperature)

Width across flats	Unit	Pressure resistance value	Test method
3 mm	MPa	2.0	3TS-350-01
5 mm	MPa	2.5
8 mm	MPa	3.0
15 mm	MPa	4.5

Test conditions
·	Surface finish: 6.3S
·	Average surface pressure: 3.9 MPa
·	Clamping bolt: JIS B 1180, M12 bolt, 4 pcs.
·	Drying time: 5 min
·	Hydraulic medium: Turbine oil No.1
·	Applied flange: 54 mm in ID
·	Rate of application of pressure: Increase of 0.2 MPa every 20 seconds

Average surface pressure and pressure resistance (at room temperature)

Average surface pressure	Unit	Pressure resistance value	Test method
3.9 MPa	MPa	3.0	3TS-350-01
7.8 MPa	MPa	4.5
11.8 MPa	MPa	7.5

Test conditions
·	Surface finish: 6.3S
·	Width across flats: 8 mm
·	Clamping bolt: JIS B 1180, M12 bolt, 4 pcs.
·	Hydraulic medium: Turbine oil No.1
·	Applied flange: 70 mm in OD and 54 mm in ID
·	Drying time: 5 min
·	Rate of application of pressure: Increase of 0.2 MPa every 20 seconds

Resistance to low and high temperatures

Item	Unit	Pressure resistance value	Test method
Resistance to low and high temperatures	MPa	10.0	JIS K 6820

Test conditions
·	The sample was applied to the flange for pressure resistance test, and the flange was tightened under the same conditions as the pressure resistance test conditions. It was cooled at -40°C ± 5°C for 2 hours and heated at 100 ± 5°C for 3 hours. After it was left to cool at room temperature, the resistance was measured.

Chemical resistance

Item	Mass change (%)	Immersion time	Test method	Remarks
Water	-1.8	90 - 95°C	JIS K 6820	Tap water
Salt water	-2.1	10% salt water
Anti-freeze	-1.4	50% ethylene glycol
10% H2SO4 aq.	-1.4	25°C 
10% NaOH aq.	-1.3 
Test lube oil No.1	-3.9	95 - 100°C 
Test lube oil No.2	-3.4 
Test lube oil No.3	+4.8 
Engine oil	-2.5 
Turbine oil	-2.4 
Gasoline	-4.0	45 - 50°C 
Fuel oil B	-2.8	Isooctane/toluene
(70/30)
Kerosine	-2.0 

Test conditions
·	The concavities in a glass or aluminum plate specified by JIS were filled with the liquid sample. After the liquid was left at room temperature for 24 hours, it was dried at 100 ± 5°C for 3 hours, and the mass of each dried tablet was measured. These obtained tablets were used as test pieces for immersion. The test pieces were immersed in the liquids for 24 hours. Then, they were taken out of the liquids and dried at 65 ± 5°C for 24 hours, and their mass was measured at room temperature. The mass change was determined from the mass before and after immersion.

Tensile shear bond strength

Bonded materials	Unit	Tensile shear bond strength	Test method
Fe/Fe	MPa	2.9	3TS-301-11
(RT × 1 week)
Al/Al	MPa	0.4
Fe/Fe	MPa	3.2	3TS-301-11
(130°C × 5h)
Al/Al	MPa	2.0
Fe/Fe	MPa	6.2	3TS-301-11
(130°C × 5h + 130°C × 5h)
Al/Al	MPa	3.0

90º peel strength

Bonded materials	Unit	90º peel strength	Test method
Fe/Al	kN/m	0.3	3TS-304-31
(RT × 1 week)
Fe/Al	kN/m	0.6	3TS-304-31
(130°C × 5h)
Fe/Al	kN/m	0.5	3TS-304-31
(130°C × 5h + 130°C × 5h)

Corrosion resistance

Characteristic	Test method
Corrosion resistance	No problem
(no significant color change, pitting or etching)	JIS K 6820


Usage

1)	Before using the gasket, stir it without fail.
2)	Remove moisture, oil and other contaminants completely from the surfaces to be bonded.
3)	Apply it as thin and uniformly as possible.
4)	Laminate the surfaces about 1 to 4 minutes after applying it.
5)	The working temperature range is -40 to 150°C.

Warning

·	Do not inhale or drink this material. It is harmful to the health.
·	It is combustible. Do not use it near fire.
·	When using it, wear appropriate protective clothings, such as protective goggles, mask and gloves.
·	Keep it out of reach of children.

First aid

·	If it is swallowed, do not induce vomiting. Get medical attention immediately.
·	If it gets in the eyes, immediately wash them with clean water for 15 minutes or more, and get medical attention immediately.
·	If it adheres to the skin, immediately wipe it away, and wash the skin sufficiently with soap. If any abnormality is found, get medical attention.
(If it adheres to clothes and sinks through the fabric, treat them in the same manner.)
·	If someone feels bad while using it, immediately stop using it, and put the sufferer to rest in a well-ventilated place. If he (she) does not recover, get medical attention.

Instructions for use

·	Do not use this product for any purpose other than the specified applications.
·	Before using it, carefully read the directions.
·	Use and store it out of reach of children.
·	It is flammable. Do not use it near fire.
·	Use appropriate protective clothings, such as a mask, gloves (not permeable) and goggles. Use it in a well-ventilated outdoor area or in a place equipped with a local exhaust system.
·	If any abnormality is found in the body, stop using it, and get medical attention.
·	Do not use it on the human body.
·	People who have allergies or sensitive skin should avoid using it.
·	Ascertain in advance whether or not it affects the parts to be bonded with it. If any problem occurs, do not use it.
·	Do not use it for drinking water piping or hot water supply piping.
·	For hazard and toxicity information not mentioned herein, see the MSDS (material safety data sheet).


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## SkippyKtm (May 22, 2011)

Been using Motoseal for quite some time now and it is intended for use with contact with gasoline. It works and holds up just fine. You can get it at any Carquest auto parts dealer, I would call first as they may need to order it for you. It costs less than $6 a tube, and a tube lasts a long time.


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## MS460WOODCHUCK (May 22, 2011)

Modifiedmark said:


> John, are you talking about replacing the cork tank gaskets on like a 10-10 or 306?
> 
> If so I'm not sure about just using moto seal. If your talking sealing to flat metal surfaces then yes thats the ticket, no gasket needed.
> 
> If trying to replace the cork gasket on a tank cover, you would almost need to let the sealant cure before installing.


 
What would be the process to use it on the tank halves? The cork gaskets are still there so would I just apply a little to one side of the gasket or both sides of the gasket and let it set up a little or install with it wet?


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## MS460WOODCHUCK (May 22, 2011)

FireMan2285 said:


> well what i use on tank halves is indian head gasket shellac compound.and it says on the back of the bottle that it is for leak proof gaskets and threaded assemblies.to apply a thin coat on both parts.and then allow to dry.then assemble them back on.it will reist water,steam,petrolum products <--( gasoline) and antifreeze.and i haven't had a problem out of it useing it on chainsaws.


 
I have used this before and when I dumped the fuel to let the saw sit for a while I noticed that the gas had turned the same color as the product which told me not to ever use it again.

Maybe just my bad luck but I'm not sold on this product for a gas tank gasket.


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## w8ye (May 22, 2011)

My experience with dissolving orange #1 shellac flakes in ethyl alcohol at work, would lead me to believe that Indian Head shellac would no longer work for us in areas exposed to gasoline as the gasoline now contains 10% ethanol or better known as ethyl alcohol.


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## Tzed250 (May 22, 2011)

brad1000s said:


> Yamabond 5 is not worth you time or money. Way to runny and doesn't seem to coat very well. On the other hand Hondabond is the best stuff i have ever used. I used it to seal a leaky tank on a husky 50. It has a nice grey color and does not stick out like a sore thumb like the blue stuff. My 2 cents.


 
Yamabond 4 is what you want...


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## djones (May 22, 2011)

I'm facing the same problem on one of my rebuilds and now I see, thanks to this thread, that my choices are Threebond 1194 or permatex motoseal. Thanks guys for the input.


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## Modifiedmark (May 22, 2011)

ms460woodchuck said:


> What would be the process to use it on the tank halves? The cork gaskets are still there so would I just apply a little to one side of the gasket or both sides of the gasket and let it set up a little or install with it wet?


 
Thats what I thought, motoseal is not good to fill a void that big without the gasket. 

It is good to use with the old gaskets though, just clean it all up and put the motoseal on the old gasket and let it set most the way up before putting the tank cover back on it. 

I have done this lots of time and it works well.


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## MS460WOODCHUCK (May 22, 2011)

Modifiedmark said:


> Thats what I thought, motoseal is not good to fill a void that big without the gasket.
> 
> It is good to use with the old gaskets though, just clean it all up and put the motoseal on the old gasket and let it set most the way up before putting the tank cover back on it.
> 
> I have done this lots of time and it works well.


 
Thanks for the help Mark and everyonelse that responded!


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## Fish (May 22, 2011)

Modifiedmark said:


> Your wrong


 
Now that was to the point!


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## MS460WOODCHUCK (May 22, 2011)

Fish said:


> Now that was to the point!


 
Thats Mark straight to the point and well respected for it.


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## teatersroad (May 22, 2011)

Permatex has never failed me. I can't speak for the specs. but it is easy to get and easy to work with. Not worth splitting hairs beyond that criteria (to me)


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## Modifiedmark (May 22, 2011)

Fish said:


> Now that was to the point!


 
That was the only polite way that I could reply to that!


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## slipknot (May 22, 2011)

ms460woodchuck said:


> What would be the process to use it on the tank halves? The cork gaskets are still there so would I just apply a little to one side of the gasket or both sides of the gasket and let it set up a little or install with it wet?


 
I know (seal all) is fuel proof but does not make a good tank gasket on a 10-10...too messy no much flexibility....and does not clean up for crap. I also have used permatex motoseal...it works well....im glad to read up on what works best for certain applications..i learned a thing or two from this thread.


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## Miles86 (May 23, 2011)

I've had good experience with Permatex Anaerobic Gasket Maker

_copied from Permatex website:
OEM specified. Noncorrosive gasketing material designed primarily for use on aluminum, iron, and steel flanged mating surfaces. Ideal for on-the-spot and emergency repairs, or when a conventional gasket is unavailable. Fills gaps up to .015" and cures to a solvent-resistant seal that will not tear or decay during service. Parts disassemble easily even after extended service and old gasket material can be removed in minutes with a simple putty knife._

Not sure how well it will work on plastic flanges??


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## MS460WOODCHUCK (May 23, 2011)

slipknot said:


> i learned a thing or two from this thread.


 
That makes two of us.


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