# Anchor hitch failure kills a newbie



## murphy4trees

Anchor hitch failure kills a newbie, one of at least 18 deaths in southeastern Virginia during the clean-up after Isabel....
I met a treeman from Oklahoma... He chased Isabel with a 20 ton crane, bucket treuck , a couple of highly experienced climbers, etc...
Told me he hired a local kid that died on the job.... Just what I heard... the 18 year old kid should have been putting flyers out in locak mailboxes... but climbed a tree in the owners absence... His anchor hitch connecting the end of his climbing line to a biner and his saddle, failed.... He fell backwards from 50' and landed on his head... Died on the spot... The workman's comp from Ok. doesn't cover anyone that is from Virginia... only those from Ok that are working in Va...
The owner was about to file bankruptcy...
Sad story.... losing a young life to such a simple mistake... there is not much forgiveness from 50'... Just an $18 spliced eye would have made the difference between life and death for the climber and saved the owner a whole lot of trouble...


----------



## Lumberjack

That is sad, and he was a year older than me. Did he say how the knot failed? I bet that it wasn't properly TDS. A spliced eye is fine, but so is a fishermans knot. I perfer a spliced eye, but would be ok with a proper knot tied to the biner.

Sad that the owner is closing shop, and that the kid dies. Kinda like salt in wound.

Ironic, the guy was 18 years old, and number 18 to die during cleanup of Iseabel.

Carl


----------



## John Paul Sanborn

Why i am a big fan of newbies climbing on a fixed tail with one critical knot.


----------



## knudeNoggin

> Anchor hitch failure kills a newbie ...

How was the knot type determined?
(If an Anchor Hitch spills, there's a nothing left.) If someone was there to see what knot was tied, then someone was there to see that it was tied right, etc.!?

?


----------



## blackwaterguide

*anchor hitch*

This is a tragedy. My condolences to those near and dear. May the good Lord bless and keep his soul, and comfort those around him.
Anchor hitch, buntline, fishermans, they just do not fail. The knots themselves are infallible. TDS, rope, biners, etc., and soforth, must be wherein the problem occurred.
This is an inherently dangerous business. I would always be in favor of starting slowly, and staying low for a good while. All too often we make a mad rush for that almighty buck. It takes a good while to become comfortable and proficient up there.
Once again, God bless us all.


----------



## Eagle1

I use an anchor tied to my rope snap all the time. Sounds like a mis-tied knot failed.
Eye splice would be another method, but in the long run Rocky is correct in saying that you have to know your knots. Anybody can snap on a biner. Trusting your own tied knots is part of the whole tree climbing expierence.

Anyway, sorry to the lost boy and his family.


----------



## TheTreeSpyder

An anchor knot is so named; for it was tied to the anchor of a ship.

This is the hitch that was chosen for it's strength and security to hold the lives of all on board from drifting into unknown deaths for centuries. It is formed from the stabler, stronger hitching of a roundturn, rather than single hitch; in herently i think wee will find a round turn base (or double roundturn bas that forms short Frenchy stack) to be very secure. The anchor is sweet simplicity in form itself, being jsut a roundturn, that sits on it's own tail.

That is certainly a tradegy Daniel, but as pointed out how can we be sure he had a properly TDS (i add Inspect) anchor with the proper amount of tail (4x rope diameter; cuz everybody likes a lot of tail to feel secure!)?

Many things can be held from taking nmot just a wrap/hitch on something but 2 wraps/roundturn; trapping the end of that reduced pull after the roundturn under the mainline pull of the first turn (then the subsequent one too) is pretty slick IMLHO. i think making the anchor to the line itself to form a barrel is even better (just as clove to line itself forms buntline; and girth/lark's to it's own line to form loop makes a smoother laying lobster hitch).

Condolences to the young man's family and crew too.:angel:


----------



## NeTree

Shameful loss of life... condolences to his family.

BUT...

Where is the PERSONAL responsibility in all of this?

If you take your life into your own hands and help yourself to doing something you're not qualified to do, why does that delegate the responsibility to someone else if you get hurt or killed?

The kid was doing something he shouldn't have been doing- and someone else has to lose their business over it? 

Sure it's unfortunate that a kid with his whole life ahead of him got killed, but while people have a witch-hunt to find WHO IS RESPONSIBLE, everyone seems to overlook the OBVIOUS.


(Kinda like if some kids trespass on my property and drown in my pool because they are too intoxicated to swim, their parents sue ME because I didn't have a big enough fence?)

Now, THAT said...

I believe there's definitely gotta be more to this story. Why would the kid "help himself" to try climbing? Was he alone?

We need more facts.


----------



## treeslayer

Dan, I saw the newspaper stories on what sounds like the same accident, in Kingsmill. only the kid died in the hospital a day later. Oklahoma tree company and a young guy that put on the climbers equipment and went up during lunch. fell out over a failed knot.
that climber that allowed a rookie to put on his gear and play in the tree screwed up bad. the kid wanted to get off the ground and get in the tree to make more money, a 30 minute training that cost him his life.


----------



## NeTree

Do we know for sure whether the kid helped himself to try climbing, or whether he was "allowed" to?


----------



## knudeNoggin

> Do we know for sure whether the kid helped himself to try climbing, or whether he was "allowed" to? [quote/]
> 
> My point in asking How do we know what knot was used? echoes this question. A failed Anchor hitch doesn't reveal itself; the report of that particular knot thus suggests that someone knew how the victim tied on (and perhaps even helped).
> 
> ---knudeNoggin*


----------



## NeTree

Perhaps, or it could have been an assumption on someone's part. That's why I was asking for the particular.





Put the "/" before "QUOTE"..."/QUOTE" to close (in brackets).


----------



## murphy4trees

The anchor hitch part is just what I was told... I Am sure that if the anchor hitch was properly tied it wouldn't have failed, so I thought the cause of failure was improper tying.. Sounds like tree slayer was able to fill in a few facts... The owner said the kid was supposed to be putting out flyers and not climbing trees. 

Sounds further like the owner was out doing estimates and some one on the crew let the kid go climbing... 

Eric, do you have a written policy about whom is allowed to climb or train climbers on your crews??? I'd bet 10:1 that this guy didn't... So who is responsible???? Everyone involved to some degree or another IMJ....

Hopefully we can all learn from others mistakes here... I believe the company name is Tip Top tree and crane... I saw one climber that definitely knew his stuff but no helmet or hearing protection


----------



## treeslayer

Murph,
the fire chief in James City County is an old friend of mine, I'm going to call him monday when he's on duty and get all the details.


----------



## okietreedude1

Im from Oklahoma (obviously) and am curious to know who the tree company was? If you dont want to post it to protect them, I understand. You can pmail me. I mean them no harm, just curious.


----------



## NeTree

> _Originally posted by murphy4trees _
> *
> Eric, do you have a written policy about whom is allowed to climb or train climbers on your crews??? *



Yes.


----------



## treeslayer

Talked to my buddy at the fire dept. today, he said there were 2 other company employees there when the kid fell. The kingsmill police are handling the investigation. The chief of police is an aquaintance, I'll call him again tommorrow. 
chief Tal said the kid was pretty f'd up, they took him to the hospital ASAP.


----------



## NeTree

Thanks for the definitive info.

Keep us posted.


----------



## Proarbor

> _Originally posted by netree _
> *Shameful loss of life... condolences to his family.
> 
> BUT...
> 
> Where is the PERSONAL responsibility in all of this?
> 
> If you take your life into your own hands and help yourself to doing something you're not qualified to do, why does that delegate the responsibility to someone else if you get hurt or killed?
> 
> The kid was doing something he shouldn't have been doing- and someone else has to lose their business over it?
> 
> *


The last employee who tried this on me could"nt understand why i was so upset and why he did'nt have a job when I arrived back on site. ( He got down safely but had zero instruction on knot tying, climbing techniques or chainsaw safety in trees.) My trainee climber also got a big warning over not stopping this incident.
Sometimes you have to be mean to be kind.


----------



## a_lopa

sounds like a real pro crew you got there


----------



## Proarbor

To find good people you have to disgard the trash. No complaints on my crew. Hows yours?


----------



## Tim Gardner

> _Originally posted by Eagle1 _
> *I use an anchor tied to my rope snap all the time. Sounds like a mis-tied knot failed.
> Eye splice would be another method, but in the long run Rocky is correct in saying that you have to know your knots. Anybody can snap on a biner. Trusting your own tied knots is part of the whole tree climbing expierence.
> 
> Anyway, sorry to the lost boy and his family. *




“A knot is never nearly right; it is either exactly right or it is hopelessly wrong, one or the other; there is nothing in between. This is not the impossibly high standard of the idealist, it is a mere fact for the realist to face. In a knot of eight crossings, which is about the average-size knot, there are 256 "over-and-under" arrangements possible. Make only one change in this "over-and-under" sequence and either an entirely different knot is made or no knot at all may result.” Clifford W. Ashley.


----------



## okietreedude1

I recently bumped into the owner of said company. He brought it up and we talked about it briefly. He said the kid was to be handing out flyers as previosly mentioned. Come lunch time, the crewmembers were sitting at the street eating and the kid helped himselt to the gear that was left in the tree by the climber. 

When the crew went back to investigate, there was no anchor knot tied into the rope.

Owner went on to try to demo the knot he has 'taught his climbers to use for yrs' and I couldnt tell you or show you what it was. In other words, it wasnt a bowline or a double overhand/fishrmans (call it what you like). It really didnt look safe to me. 

I got the impression the kid saw the 'knot' tied, didnt khow how to tie it, tried something and got the knot wrong, obviously. 

He went on to say he has really had to reevaluate his company and isnt nearly as gung-ho as he used to be. Im sure it really opened his eyes.

Ive actually known the owner for several yrs and the stories ive heard dont really make him much of a pro arborist. Spikes trim jobs, tops w/o care, fastest is best regardless of the outcome. 

Its too bad for all involved. something like this just goes to show you, if you dont know what your doing, find someone to show you properly.


----------



## a_lopa

> _Originally posted by Proarbor _
> *To find good people you have to disgard the trash. No complaints on my crew. Hows yours? *



hows mine?anyone who picks up a saw has 10 yrs min climbing exp its easier and more profitable to stick with the old school.one arborist old school climber 27 yrs exp dux of burnley,one labourer who only wants to drag brush,thats fine with me.i know the trash by looking at them,not being rude.i know everyone has to start somewhere but it just wont be with me,i havnt got the time or patience.we are hit and run specialists no hourly rate no questions asked


----------



## Proarbor

Definately makes things alot easier. I've got one expirenced climber now, but I try to take on trainees as well so that I can give a young guy the chance that I was given. If they dont want to learn or find that arb is'nt for them we go our seperate ways though. 
One limiting factor in sa is the lack of training that has been avaliable in the past, if you don't want a gung-ho hacker sometimes you have to go with out. I'm one of the lucky ones in sa who was trained by someone who knew what they were doing.
If you have any big tree expiriances you can share with me (prob's encountered ) please do as tall trees 200" + basicaly dont exist in sa. Tallest i've climbed was a touch over 140"

 
please ignore any other crap messages that I placed the other night, i thought that I had deleted them all


----------



## a_lopa

ill give vic that much there is fairly good climbing arb teaching just not alot of rigging,i got my advanced climbing ticket, climbing a 160ft blue gum. first limb was 40ft.doing some big eucs this week but im going to cheat a bit.ive got logger mates who think nothing of pushing over a 150+ft ash etc they do it every day and i take there advice if it can help me.


----------



## NYSawBoss

bump......

considering it was rehashed in my most recent post and I was curious to read about it.


----------

