# log splitter has no pressure to split



## smoknjoe (Jan 7, 2011)

I aquired this splitter and am trying to get it to split however it wont .The pump that is on it is a hydreco 1506 which has the specifications 2.9 gpm at 1000rpm also it says 2500 psi at 13.6 gpm.The motor is a square block with a head about 7x6 on it .It looks a lot bigger than a 8 hp kohler, seems to run fine.when the ram hits the wood against the wedge it just stops. any help .thanks joe


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## smoknjoe (Jan 7, 2011)

*additional equipment on joes splitter*

the log splitter also has a 3 1/2 cylinder and a 1 1/2 rod 27 inch stroke


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## jthornton (Jan 7, 2011)

Does the motor stop running or bog down when you try and split wood?

John


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## xrayman (Jan 7, 2011)

change the filter if it has one. Check the fluid level and for kinked bad hoses. Could have a bad seal in the cylinder or the pumps bad


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## Muffler Bearing (Jan 7, 2011)

Welcome SmokenJoe,
Have you bled the system, some will self bleed if you cycle the cylinder several times under no load. Your hyd filter could be clogged. Also after bleeding the system you will probably have to top it of again.


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## smoknjoe (Jan 7, 2011)

the motor does bog down a little but it hasnt quit. and i havent bled the system


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## smoknjoe (Jan 7, 2011)

well if the pump is bad what do you reccomend and the filter looks new


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## jthornton (Jan 7, 2011)

Try cycling the cylinder through some full strokes to make sure any air is out of the system. I'm not a hyd expert and don't play one on tv just using common sense a bit. If not air in the system then I would have to guess the pump might be worn out or the relief valve is weak as it seems to make enough pressure to move the cylinder. If you can view the return while trying to split and plenty of fluid is moving then I guess the cylinder is bad. Or a clogged input for what ever reason.

John


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## John R (Jan 7, 2011)

What you have sounds like a 2 stage pump, for some reason it's not kicking down to the 2nd stage where it builds it's high pressure.
Might have a bad pump.


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## Muffler Bearing (Jan 7, 2011)

Heres your pump. Looks easy to rebuild.

Hydreco


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## triptester (Jan 7, 2011)

The hydreco pump is single stage.

Relief valve setting not high enough. 2. Increase pressure setting of relief valve.

3. Relief valve leaking. 3. Check valve seat for scoring mark and reseat.

4. Spring in relief valve broken. 4. Replace spring and readjust valve.

5. Free circulation of oil to tank being allowed 5. Control valve may be in neutral, or return line open
through system. unintentionally.

6. Internal leakage in control valves or cylinders


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## MH49 (Jan 7, 2011)

Check the coupler between the engine and the pump. I don't know what kind it is but if it has a key and it sheared or fell out, you would probably have enough friction to drive the pump untill it came under load.


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## rarefish383 (Jan 10, 2011)

I had the same problem and a hydraulic mechanic told me my pump was way to big for the 12hp Kohler. He said it looked like the pump came off an old Cat D9. I bought a 16 gpm pump from Baileys Hydraulics for $128 and seems to work just fine. I also converted to direct drive from pullies. good luck with yours, Joe.


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## fearofpavement (Jan 10, 2011)

The fact that the cylinder moves at all means that the engine is turning the pump, the pump is operational, the coupler is intact and the control valve is working. So there can really only be one cause for no force and that is that something is preventing the buildup of high pressure. There are many good ideas on this thread already. It wouldn't be a filter because a restricted filter will affect the rate of flow but won't prevent a buildup of pressure.

A pump that is too large will stall the engine. So if your engine isn't dying or a belt slipping that isn't the problem.

The most inexpensive way to troubleshoot this difficulty will be to acquire a hydraulic guage. Get a gauge and an assortment of fittings that will allow you to place it at certain points in the system. You will want one that goes to about 3000 psi. These are readily available from places that sell splitter components, Northern Tool, probably Tractor Supply Company and a myriad of online sellers. First place I would put it is in the line that goes to the cylinder feed for the forward position (ie, the rear of the cylinder.) If you have pressure there when you move the control to the split position then the problem is your cylinder. If you don't have pressure there, put the gauge in the output line of your pump. If you don't have pressure there, then you have a bad pump. And so forth. For most of these checks you want to have the gauge at the end of the line and not teed into the line as any problem downstream will cause a low reading. Once you have located and corrected your problem, you can tee the gauge into your system to keep track of what kind of pressures you are operating at.

This may sound like a lot of hassle but it will keep you from "shotgunning" which is changing out parts until you happen to find the correct trouble.

The cylinder not working means it needs rebuild or replace, a pump not putting out pressure could be several causes as simple as adjustment or as serious as replacement. If you have pressure at the pump, but not at the cylinder, then the problem is in your valve which is either internally leaking or bypassing a pressure relief if it has one. Based on your symptoms, my "guess" would be that it is the cylinder but I would check with the gauge first. Let us know what you find.


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## smoknjoe (Jan 10, 2011)

first off the lines from the pump to the controls were the same size as the return line 1 1/4 so I have reduced the line to control to 1/2 and the lines to the cylinder are 1/2 and the return is 1 1/4. there is no filter in line and the out line from contol is at the top of the tank and the return to the pump is at the bottom of tank.I have cut a tee in between the pump and control and going to put a gauge there to see if pressure from pump 1-11-11 and let you guys know.thanks for the help, smoknjoe.


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## smoknjoe (Jan 10, 2011)

the pump is a hydreco which david brown now owns and it is a single stage bi rotational 2.9 at 1000 rpm and 13. at discharge pressure at 2500.The pump new was 646. $


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## smoknjoe (Jan 10, 2011)

where is the relief valve and how do you adjust it. all I see is a control lever and a pump .


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## RVALUE (Jan 10, 2011)

xrayman said:


> change the filter if it has one. Check the fluid level and for kinked bad hoses. Could have a bad seal in the cylinder or the pumps bad


 
My splitter sat for about ten years. I fired it up, and it would retract like a SOB and wouldnt go down at all. Couldn't figure it out, changed valve everything. Turned out to be the inner sleeve in the hose was split and acted like a check valve. 

It didn't let a drop out!


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## stihl_in_texas (Jan 10, 2011)

One thing to consider when using a gauge to check the system is the pump delivers flow to the system not pressure. Pressure comes from the resistance to flow in the system. If you stick a gauge between the pump and the relief valve and the gauge indicates a low reading, it can be the relief valve is stuck in the WFO position, not a faulty pump. Not a very likely scenario, but it is possible. Good luck.

Steve


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## fearofpavement (Jan 11, 2011)

stihl_in_texas said:


> One thing to consider when using a gauge to check the system is the pump delivers flow to the system not pressure. Pressure comes from the resistance to flow in the system. If you stick a gauge between the pump and the relief valve and the gauge indicates a low reading, it can be the relief valve is stuck in the WFO position, not a faulty pump. Not a very likely scenario, but it is possible. Good luck.
> 
> Steve


 
Steve, I agree that installing a gauge in a T will only show operational pressure if everything is working normally. That is why I suggested putting the gauge at the "end of the line" and moving it around until the problem is located. ie, not having a "loop" in the system but terminating with the gauge. Even air will not keep pressure from building up. It can cause all kinds of erratic problems but eventually the air will compress and pressure will build as long as you have fluid in the pump. Whether one starts at the pump and works toward the cylinder or at the cylinder and works towards the pump, a gauge will locate the source of the problem. I suggested starting at the cylinder because my guess is that is the likely culprit but primarily the plumbing to the gauge may be simpler with the longer hoses and more access room.


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## Code3dragon (Aug 9, 2022)

fearofpavement said:


> The fact that the cylinder moves at all means that the engine is turning the pump, the pump is operational, the coupler is intact and the control valve is working. So there can really only be one cause for no force and that is that something is preventing the buildup of high pressure. There are many good ideas on this thread already. It wouldn't be a filter because a restricted filter will affect the rate of flow but won't prevent a buildup of pressure.
> 
> A pump that is too large will stall the engine. So if your engine isn't dying or a belt slipping that isn't the problem.
> 
> ...


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## Code3dragon (Aug 9, 2022)

Fear of pavement. That's a great thread. I have a log splitter that works perfectly with the exception of: I got the hydraulic oil heated up (because it was low) and now, although it goes through it's full range extending and retracting, it doesn't have enough hydraulic pressure to do anything but put a dent in the wood. I took off the pump and everything looks fine. Reinstalled it, changed the hydraulic oil and filter. Still the same. I'm going to try to adjust the pressure before replacing the pump. Any ideas? Would heating the hydraulic oil ruin the pump?


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## fearofpavement (Aug 9, 2022)

Code3dragon said:


> Fear of pavement. That's a great thread. I have a log splitter that works perfectly with the exception of: I got the hydraulic oil heated up (because it was low) and now, although it goes through it's full range extending and retracting, it doesn't have enough hydraulic pressure to do anything but put a dent in the wood. I took off the pump and everything looks fine. Reinstalled it, changed the hydraulic oil and filter. Still the same. I'm going to try to adjust the pressure before replacing the pump. Any ideas? Would heating the hydraulic oil ruin the pump?


It "could" damage the pump. If you follow the procedures in the thread of troubleshooting the system you'll save time and effort in the long run as you'll find out exactly which component is giving you trouble rather than messing with all of them.


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## TRTermite (Aug 9, 2022)

I am CERTAIN you will find that the cylinder is Weak and bypassing some Hyd, fluid .. Just enough that the pump stays in the high volume low pressure stage and the pump can't build up enough pressure to kick into the High pressure low volume stage.


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## TRTermite (Aug 9, 2022)

One way to check the cylinder is to leave the extend hose/line hooked to the cylinder and plug the retract hose/line between the cylinder and valve. You should see the hose get really stiff when you max the cylinder travel 'cuz there is no path for the oil to cycle through to the valve - tank. If you want to be sure put a pressure gauge anywhere after the valve ..


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## TRTermite (Aug 9, 2022)

If I am correct you will need to reseal your cylinder. A picture of the cylinder will help (IF NEEDED)to tell you how to take it a part and get it back together. A lot of people will say you need to hone the cylinder regardless but I will agree for the sake of perfection yet throw a suggestion to just keep it ALL CLEAN and replace all of the packing seals and oil rings and skip the honing part.. The gland packing and seal and O rings are probably OK as it really never really gets a good workout like the piston seals but whilst you Have it apart I would replace them (If it was mine).


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## TRTermite (Aug 9, 2022)

Keep Us Posted what you do and what the culprit was. Some day someone else will most likely read this thread and You will save them a lot of second guessing.


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## Code3dragon (Aug 9, 2022)

TRTermite said:


> I am CERTAIN you will find that the cylinder is Weak and bypassing some Hyd, fluid .. Just enough that the pump stays in the high volume low pressure stage and the pump can't build up enough pressure to kick into the High pressure low volume stage.


The splitter is a Troy built 27Ton. No homemade parts. I'll check on the gauges depending on cost, I may just rebuild the cylinder.


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## TRTermite (Aug 9, 2022)

Code3dragon said:


> The splitter is a Troy built 27Ton. No homemade parts. I'll check on the gauges depending on cost, I may just rebuild the cylinder.


Just a plug (Male) or cap (Female) to terminate the return line will put the pump to the relief pressure and you will see/hear the difference. That may not be possible, seeing the splitter layout. your pic is of the wrong side to see much. I have no doubt it is the cylinder and have fixed more than a few cylinders . I suggested the gauge to give you peace of mind if some body throws you a "YA BUTT" and you wish to be dead certain what the issue is.


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## fearofpavement (Aug 9, 2022)

This will work and locate your problem. Find some fittings to adapt it to what you have. May take several fittings daisy chained together.


https://www.amazon.com/Measureman-Hydraulic-Pressure-0-5000psi-Stainless/dp/B07Z9R9FN1/ref=asc_df_B07Z9R9FN1/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=416836767017&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=3343848720509486982&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9010920&hvtargid=pla-873138210940&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=95471650938&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=416836767017&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=3343848720509486982&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9010920&hvtargid=pla-873138210940


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## sean donato (Aug 9, 2022)

TRTermite said:


> Just a plug (Male) or cap (Female) to terminate the return line will put the pump to the relief pressure and you will see/hear the difference. That may not be possible, seeing the splitter layout. your pic is of the wrong side to see much. I have no doubt it is the cylinder and have fixed more than a few cylinders . I suggested the gauge to give you peace of mind if some body throws you a "YA BUTT" and you wish to be dead certain what the issue is.


DO NOT BLOCK OFF THE RETURN PORT! Return ports are not high pressure ports! Most aren't rated for more then 200 psi. 
You need to block a work port To test relief. Or stall the cylinder. Gauge goes after the pump before the valve.


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## Code3dragon (Aug 10, 2022)

fearofpavement said:


> This will work and locate your problem. Find some fittings to adapt it to what you have. May take several fittings daisy chained together.
> 
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Measureman-Hydraulic-Pressure-0-5000psi-Stainless/dp/B07Z9R9FN1/ref=asc_df_B07Z9R9FN1/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=416836767017&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=3343848720509486982&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9010920&hvtargid=pla-873138210940&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=95471650938&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=416836767017&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=3343848720509486982&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9010920&hvtargid=pla-873138210940


You guys are awesome. I'm a mechanic ( about 25 big blocks and double that on small blocks) but zero experience on hydraulics. I might have a gauge, but they're cheap enough that I could buy one too. I'll let you guys know. Thanks a ton. Btw, I can't rebuild a lawn mower engine either.


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## TRTermite (Aug 10, 2022)

sean donato said:


> DO NOT BLOCK OFF THE RETURN PORT! Return ports are not high pressure ports! Most aren't rated for more then 200 psi.
> You need to block a work port To test relief. Or stall the cylinder. Gauge goes after the pump before the valve.


There is Your "YA BUTT" The return line is """AFTER THE VALVE" Back to the Tank. Think about it. This is a 2 way valve and the "RETRACT line/circuit IS a WORKING PORT/Circuit. If this keeps dragging on I will revert back to my "QUIET PEANUT GALLERY"


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## TRTermite (Aug 10, 2022)

sean donato said:


> You need to block a work port To test relief. Or stall the cylinder.


This is exactly what will Happen when the Hyd. fluid cannot complete the circuit and the "RETRACT" (I never said "RETURN") circuit is blocked for diagnosing low pressure issues. This will simulate a "STALLED CYLINDER" and Pinpoint the cylinder as the weak link.
Edit; I Did say return in post 29 but did say retract in post 25 forgive me and the dyslexia that forgot to say what I meant not what I said in post #29. It DOES MAKE a BIG difference.


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## Code3dragon (Aug 10, 2022)

TRTermite said:


> There is Your "YA BUTT" The return line is """AFTER THE VALVE" Back to the Tank. Think about it. This is a 2 way valve and the "RETRACT line/circuit IS a WORKING PORT/Circuit. If this keeps dragging on I will revert back to my "QUIET PEANUT GALLERY"


Okay, gonna work on it today. The cylinder was very strong before it was ran low on hydraulic oil. And the oil reached a temperature that you could keep your bare hand on the cylinder with no problem. I would guess about 140 degrees. But it was a strong cylinder before that. I think that checking pressures will tell me a lot.


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## TRTermite (Aug 10, 2022)

If you have a hydraulic jack you could stand your splitter up , place jack on base (?)plate , bring wedge down to jack (might want to put something to protect sharp edge of wedge) , then take line off extend end of cylinder and cap the cylinder fitting (JIC ?10?) , Jack the ram/wedge/shaft back into the cylinder barrel . If jack will shove ram into barrel that tells you the fluid is bypassing internally And that will confirm your cylinder needs a working over. This is assuming your jack is big enough .Good luck.


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## Code3dragon (Aug 10, 2022)

TRTermite said:


> If you have a hydraulic jack you could stand your splitter up , place jack on base (?)plate , bring wedge down to jack (might want to put something to protect sharp edge of wedge) , then take line off extend end of cylinder and cap the cylinder fitting (JIC ?10?) , Jack the ram/wedge/shaft back into the cylinder barrel . If jack will shove ram into barrel that tells you the fluid is bypassing internally And that will confirm your cylinder needs a working over. This is assuming your jack is big enough .Good luck.


Sounds like a good idea. Which line should I cap off? The incoming pressure line, closest to the end of the cylinder without the wedge?


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## TRTermite (Aug 10, 2022)

Code3dragon said:


> Sounds like a good idea. Which line should I cap off? The incoming pressure line, closest to the end of the cylinder without the wedge?


Yes, Has to be leak proof under pressure. So a regular steel fitting cap .


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## sean donato (Aug 10, 2022)

TRTermite said:


> This is exactly what will Happen when the Hyd. fluid cannot complete the circuit and the "RETRACT" (I never said "RETURN") circuit is blocked for diagnosing low pressure issues. This will simulate a "STALLED CYLINDER" and Pinpoint the cylinder as the weak link.
> Edit; I Did say return in post 29 but did say retract in post 25 forgive me and the dyslexia that forgot to say what I meant not what I said in post #29. It DOES MAKE a BIG difference.


Look buddy, I wasn't peeing on your parade, I worked heavy duty diesel for most my life, and as part of that it included a fair bit of hydraulic systems maintenance and repair. 
I appreciate you helping a fellow member out, but will call out wrong info when I see it. On top of that you pitched a 2 reply I didn't say that fit, when you clearly did. Carry on, I'll not respond to this thread any longer.


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## TRTermite (Aug 10, 2022)

sean donato said:


> Look buddy, I wasn't peeing on your parade, I worked heavy duty diesel for most my life, and as part of that it included a fair bit of hydraulic systems maintenance and repair.
> I appreciate you helping a fellow member out, but will call out wrong info when I see it. On top of that you pitched a 2 reply I didn't say that fit, when you clearly did. Carry on, I'll not respond to this thread any longer.


I made the edit to say I made a mis statement. Just short of an apology. I will go the next step and "I apologize for sounding like a JERK" You did the right thing because I did say "RETURN" on post 29 and that could have misled someone now or in the future into trouble. It would be best for the OP if you continue commenting as you did set a wrong statement right and Yes I believe he appreciates all the help he gets.


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## Captain Bruce (Aug 10, 2022)

Code3dragon said:


> Fear of pavement. That's a great thread. I have a log splitter that works perfectly with the exception of: I got the hydraulic oil heated up (because it was low) and now, although it goes through it's full range extending and retracting, it doesn't have enough hydraulic pressure to do anything but put a dent in the wood. I took off the pump and everything looks fine. Reinstalled it, changed the hydraulic oil and filter. Still the same. I'm going to try to adjust the pressure before replacing the pump. Any ideas? Would heating the hydraulic oil ruin the pump?


Lets err on the side of caution, and assume the cylinder is chinesium. The articles about the seal materials used are just silly. The seals have the pressure quality of Grandmas O-ring. Junk.

NASA - Military-grade rubber seals have been used my American cylinder suppliers, since before WW2!

The H. Frght offerings will squirt you in the face like a wedding cake decorator....1/2 ways thru a 12" 2 x 6.

They flex, mis-align? I'm no Hydro mechanic, but all the cylinders on our farm, are 20 - 30 yrs.old, and function as intended.


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## jenko (Aug 11, 2022)

If you want to know if the cylinder is bypassing, run the cylinder to full extension, all the way out. Then take the hose off the rod end of the cylinder (return side) and continue to extend the cylinder. If oil comes out of the rod end of the cylinder the seals are bypassing. If the oil was low you have probably damaged the pump, or possibly relief valve if it overheated


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## TRTermite (Aug 12, 2022)

I used the terminology (post 29) Return and should have stated "Retract" And yes I agree with your way of thinking....


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## Code3dragon (Aug 23, 2022)

TRTermite said:


> If you have a hydraulic jack you could stand your splitter up , place jack on base (?)plate , bring wedge down to jack (might want to put something to protect sharp edge of wedge) , then take line off extend end of cylinder and cap the cylinder fitting (JIC ?10?) , Jack the ram/wedge/shaft back into the cylinder barrel . If jack will shove ram into barrel that tells you the fluid is bypassing internally And that will confirm your cylinder needs a working over. This is assuming your jack is big enough .Good luck.


Hi guys, 
I did get it figured out. Going the cheapest route, I did what TRTermite suggested in the reply above. I had a cap to block off, so it literally costed nothing to do. I put a 3 ton jack under the wedge and surprisingly I was able to lift the wedge quite easily. I took the cylinder in to get it measured for seals (see below). While there I just decided to have them rebuild it. Costed about $200 for everything and the splitter works great now. So yes, ut was the cylinder. 
As for the cylinder: I looked all over the web for a seal kit for the Troybuilt cylinder and couldn't find one for that exact model. Turns out that Troybuilt is very protective of those part numbers apparently because they don't want you to rebuild, they would rather you order a new $800 cylinder (plus shipping). After measuring, the guy at the hydraulic service said they were metric seals and had to overnite a set that was correct. 
Thanks for all the help guys, appreciate it. Imma stay warm this winter., made a cool heat exchanger too!


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## TRTermite (Aug 23, 2022)

Proprietary parts suck. They must profit a lot from them. Many people take for granted the convenience of hitting a parts store and walk out with the 'right parts on the first trip. I would wonder how long before planned obsolescence dominates the market. CAN'T BE FAR FROM IT NOW. 
Glad you got it back to work. Hopefully this/your thread will benefit others in the future.


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