# Stihl 028 AV Super vs MS 290 Farm Boss



## S Tebo

Ok, you guys are the experts and do this for a living and I am starting to become more serious about my small but growing wood business. I recently picked up a pair of used Stihl saws (028 AV Super & MS 290 Farm Boss as a package deal) to add to my small but growing collection (MS170,250,310 & 441c). 290 is almost brand new & basically perfect. 028 has been used more, but has a clean piston & good compression. I added new: 20" bar, chain, drive sprocket, plug, all filters etc. It cleaned up really well and runs perfect- in fact almost smoother than the 290. I can't tell any power diff to speak of either between the two. So, since they are basically two of the same thing- one of them has to go. Common sense says newer is better, but I hear and read that a lot of professional people still seek out the older 028,029 & 041 series saws because of their better construction etc over their newer replacement MS models. Which one would you keep? Appreciate any opinions. Thanks!


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## qbilder

If the 028 is in good shape and you aren't asking new saw prices, I'd be interested. I already have an 029 Farm Boss & love it, but would like to find a good older saw to tinker with. As of now I have the 170, 029, 390, & 084, plus a bastard Craftsman. Not really a business for me, though the saws do support my business. I like the curves of the saws from the past just like I like the curves of the women of the past. Used to be pin-up girls had curves. Now they're blocky & bony with plastic......just like the saws


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## mikeb1079




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## andrethegiant70

*Hmmm*

Well, LOTS of folks will really pipe up on behalf of the 028. They are of pro quality and very highly regarded. Personally, though, I've never had the love affair some have with the 028. It's pretty heavy for it's power and I'm an old skinny guy these days. My classic saw of choice for that size is the 026, which I find about perfect in the handling and weight category. It does not quite have the power the modern 50cc class has these day but, in my book, it's power is still very good with a few tweaks. There's nothing simpler or more reliable than a decent 026.

There is one caveat on the 028.. There are several favors from smaller bore, non-chain brake, metal tank versions to the greatly updated 028 super with a larger jug, more power, and a chain brake. They command more $, but even I would think about having one of those around. Soooo... What version do you have?


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## S Tebo

*Thank you*



qbilder said:


> If the 028 is in good shape and you aren't asking new saw prices, I'd be interested. I already have an 029 Farm Boss & love it, but would like to find a good older saw to tinker with. As of now I have the 170, 029, 390, & 084, plus a bastard Craftsman. Not really a business for me, though the saws do support my business. I like the curves of the saws from the past just like I like the curves of the women of the past. Used to be pin-up girls had curves. Now they're blocky & bony with plastic......just like the saws



Just wanted to say thank you for the feedback. My father just bought 140 wooded acres in WVA and has several older Homelites etc, so the 290 maybe going to him. With the cost of the 028 saw and the parts for the 028 (doing own labor) I'm going to have about $250 or so into it, maybe a little more. I know you can buy a new 290 F Boss for about $389, but thats with the shorter 18" bar. So, I'm not sure if the market will bear what I have into it, much less even a small profit. I prob could have avoided the sprocket replacement since its not totally shot, but I wanted to set it up right. If worst comes to worst- may end up just keeping it over selling it at a loss- it's too nice to do that. Let me know if you (any of you) are interested or if not- i totally understand. Scott


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## S Tebo

*028 AV Super*



andrethegiant70 said:


> Well, LOTS of folks will really pipe up on behalf of the 028. They are of pro quality and very highly regarded. Personally, though, I've never had the love affair some have with the 028. It's pretty heavy for it's power and I'm an old skinny guy these days. My classic saw of choice for that size is the 026, which I find about perfect in the handling and weight category. It does not quite have the power the modern 50cc class has these day but, in my book, it's power is still very good with a few tweaks. There's nothing simpler or more reliable than a decent 026.
> 
> There is one caveat on the 028.. There are several favors from smaller bore, non-chain brake, metal tank versions to the greatly updated 028 super with a larger jug, more power, and a chain brake. They command more $, but even I would think about having one of those around. Soooo... What version do you have?



It's the 028 AV Super model. Since I already have the MS 250 & 310, I kinda thought this would land in the middle for my needs or sell it, which it pretty much does. I'm just starting to wonder if I really need it though. The 250 will do a lot for its weight ratio and when it reaches its limit, I can pretty much jump to the 310. But, my back hates the weight of the 310 and if I need to throw just one saw in the truck for a road trip/day job the 028 maybe just be the ticket? Plus, you really can't have too many saws! Let me know your thoughts/ if you are interested- see my pricing comments on the other reply thread. Thanks, Scott


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## Icehouse

028 super is a great saw, would be my choice. Maybe a MM on some saws is all you need.


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## qbilder

Muffler mods do indeed work. I was surprised what it did for my 390. Before the mod, my old 029 outworked my new 390. Now since the mod, it cuts & runs like it's supposed to & puts the 029 in its place. 

As for the 028, i'm not terribly interested. I'm just looking for an old saw to tinker with & restore. The 028 is a little small as I was hoping to find something in the 85+ cc range. Sounds like you have a purpose for it, and I would want it too cheap. If you are cutting in the West Virginia Appalachians then you'll need all the saw you can get. Those deep woods trees grow big & straight up, will give you several good saw logs per tree. I grew up in south eastern Ohio, close to Point Pleasant WV, right on the northern edge of the mountains. We got those high ridges with near vertical slopes, and the trees on the slope edge grow huge and tall. My old man still has old growth timber on his hills. There are sugar maples back there that push 4' diameter and look like a tower. That's rarely seen in deep forest maples. They pale in comparison to the ash & oaks. I love deer hunting back there. It's like stepping back in time, just awe inspiring. If your old man got a chunk of land like that, you're in for some work. Those properties aren't as rare as folks would think. I think they slipped through the cracks for a couple of reasons. One is some people in the region are really attached to their land & simply won't allow anybody in, and two because some of the areas are so rugged & remote that it's more work than it's worth. My old man's property has been passed through the ages since Ohio was settled, and guarded with guns :msp_thumbsup: It's mine when he goes, then my son's when I go. 

The old man has been propositioned numerous times about timbering the property, and the one time he considered it & found out how much damage it would do, he refused and would never hear of it again. They wanted to cut a road into the hollow, clear out a big space to work from, and cut several roads along various heights of the hillsides, plus on top of the ridges. It would essentially have wiped out hundreds of small trees to get a few of the giants. They offered a good chunk, but hardly worth the damage. He'd have sacrificed a true wilderness for the cost of a new pick-up truck. I'm glad he passed. I hope my son feels the same way when it's his turn to decide. Point being, take good care of the property with your dad. If you have any virgin monsters, keep them safe. They won't come back in you or your children's lifetime, if ever. Some things are worth more than money.


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## Dale

> The old man has been propositioned numerous times about timbering the property, and the one time he considered it & found out how much damage it would do, he refused and would never hear of it again. They wanted to cut a road into the hollow, clear out a big space to work from, and cut several roads along various heights of the hillsides, plus on top of the ridges. It would essentially have wiped out hundreds of small trees to get a few of the giants. They offered a good chunk, but hardly worth the damage. He'd have sacrificed a true wilderness for the cost of a new pick-up truck. I'm glad he passed. I hope my son feels the same way when it's his turn to decide. Point being, take good care of the property with your dad. If you have any virgin monsters, keep them safe. They won't come back in you or your children's lifetime, if ever. Some things are worth more than money.



Well said.

I bought a used 028 Super AV used in 1992. Didn't run another saw til 2009. I LOVE that 028. 18" bar seems to compliment it quite nicely. My FIl has since given me a 361, and a Echo CS 450, so I am putting the 028 to bed I guess. As I'm not a yearround woodcutter, I'm going to see the 028 Super. It actually has a branny new 18" bar (used twice ?) and a few chains. The compression is certainly low on it, but I haven't tested it out. Case has no cracks, etc... Wuld be a real nice runner with a better jug on 'er. Anybody interested with an offer, lemme know by message.


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## S Tebo

*Following up*



qbilder said:


> Muffler mods do indeed work. I was surprised what it did for my 390. Before the mod, my old 029 outworked my new 390. Now since the mod, it cuts & runs like it's supposed to & puts the 029 in its place.
> 
> As for the 028, i'm not terribly interested. I'm just looking for an old saw to tinker with & restore. The 028 is a little small as I was hoping to find something in the 85+ cc range. Sounds like you have a purpose for it, and I would want it too cheap. If you are cutting in the West Virginia Appalachians then you'll need all the saw you can get. Those deep woods trees grow big & straight up, will give you several good saw logs per tree. I grew up in south eastern Ohio, close to Point Pleasant WV, right on the northern edge of the mountains. We got those high ridges with near vertical slopes, and the trees on the slope edge grow huge and tall. My old man still has old growth timber on his hills. There are sugar maples back there that push 4' diameter and look like a tower. That's rarely seen in deep forest maples. They pale in comparison to the ash & oaks. I love deer hunting back there. It's like stepping back in time, just awe inspiring. If your old man got a chunk of land like that, you're in for some work. Those properties aren't as rare as folks would think. I think they slipped through the cracks for a couple of reasons. One is some people in the region are really attached to their land & simply won't allow anybody in, and two because some of the areas are so rugged & remote that it's more work than it's worth. My old man's property has been passed through the ages since Ohio was settled, and guarded with guns :msp_thumbsup: It's mine when he goes, then my son's when I go.
> 
> The old man has been propositioned numerous times about timbering the property, and the one time he considered it & found out how much damage it would do, he refused and would never hear of it again. They wanted to cut a road into the hollow, clear out a big space to work from, and cut several roads along various heights of the hillsides, plus on top of the ridges. It would essentially have wiped out hundreds of small trees to get a few of the giants. They offered a good chunk, but hardly worth the damage. He'd have sacrificed a true wilderness for the cost of a new pick-up truck. I'm glad he passed. I hope my son feels the same way when it's his turn to decide. Point being, take good care of the property with your dad. If you have any virgin monsters, keep them safe. They won't come back in you or your children's lifetime, if ever. Some things are worth more than money.



Thank you for your comments. Obviously, you are someone who both respects and appreciates trees and Mother Nature in general- as do I- thanks to a good upbringing. I actually work in the energy conservation industry as well, so I'm all about it too. The property is just as you said- vertical with huge old growth trees. My father was born on a dairy farm in Canada and grew up in Swanton Vermont so he loves the woods in general and specifically for hunting so he has no plans to clear cut anything- ever. He runs thru about 10-15 cords a year in his Poppa Bear Stove. But luckily, that does not even put a dent in what falls on its own every year. After 7 years, he has yet to have had to cut a standing tree for firewood. Forgive me for being naive about saw mods (plenty of years of motorcycle muffler mods etc, street and dirt- assume its the same concept?) but can you/anyone fill me in on the muffler mod process? Is is something that I can do on my own (I'm very mechanical and have a good tool selection- have rebuilt motors etc) or do I need to send it out to a shop? We used to call them "pipe-amdectimies" for motorcycles (essentially removing the restrictive EPA muffler baffles so they could breathe). Same concept here? I learned from experience that you can open them up too much and burn valves (obviously not applicable here/two stroke), but still seized a few over the racing years. I would appreciate any guidance/advise or if you know of any good step by step links etc. I can just google it otherwise, but prefer reputable sources/ tried and true instructions. Keep well and thanks for any info you can provide to me. Scott


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## qbilder

S Tebo said:


> Thank you for your comments. Obviously, you are someone who both respects and appreciates trees and Mother Nature in general- as do I- thanks to a good upbringing. I actually work in the energy conservation industry as well, so I'm all about it too. The property is just as you said- vertical with huge old growth trees. My father was born on a dairy farm in Canada and grew up in Swanton Vermont so he loves the woods in general and specifically for hunting so he has no plans to clear cut anything- ever. He runs thru about 10-15 cords a year in his Poppa Bear Stove. But luckily, that does not even put a dent in what falls on its own every year. After 7 years, he has yet to have had to cut a standing tree for firewood. Forgive me for being naive about saw mods (plenty of years of motorcycle muffler mods etc, street and dirt- assume its the same concept?) but can you/anyone fill me in on the muffler mod process? Is is something that I can do on my own (I'm very mechanical and have a good tool selection- have rebuilt motors etc) or do I need to send it out to a shop? We used to call them "pipe-amdectimies" for motorcycles (essentially removing the restrictive EPA muffler baffles so they could breathe). Same concept here? I learned from experience that you can open them up too much and burn valves (obviously not applicable here/two stroke), but still seized a few over the racing years. I would appreciate any guidance/advise or if you know of any good step by step links etc. I can just google it otherwise, but prefer reputable sources/ tried and true instructions. Keep well and thanks for any info you can provide to me. Scott



I can show you what I did to my 390. It was an easy process that made a huge difference. It's basically opening the muffler up more to allow more air flow. More air out = more air in, which if you adjust the carb to allow more fuel = more mix to combust with each power cycle = more power from the saw. There was nothing technical or scientific about how I did mine but it sure made a huge difference in power. My old 029 was outcutting the new 390 until the mod. Now there's no contest. Not even close. With a 25" bar the 390 is faster & more powerful than the 029 with 20" bar. In stock form, the old 029 had more muffler ports than the 390, which explains the more power. Here's a pic of the before. I'll post pics of the after in a bit. 029 on the right, 390 on the left. See the issue?


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## S Tebo

*Following up*



qbilder said:


> I can show you what I did to my 390. It was an easy process that made a huge difference. It's basically opening the muffler up more to allow more air flow. More air out = more air in, which if you adjust the carb to allow more fuel = more mix to combust with each power cycle = more power from the saw. There was nothing technical or scientific about how I did mine but it sure made a huge difference in power. My old 029 was outcutting the new 390 until the mod. Now there's no contest. Not even close. With a 25" bar the 390 is faster & more powerful than the 029 with 20" bar. In stock form, the old 029 had more muffler ports than the 390, which explains the more power. Here's a pic of the before. I'll post pics of the after in a bit. 029 on the right, 390 on the left. See the issue?



Definitely do. Thanks for the good pix- as they saying goes- Worth a thousand words. Looking forward to the finished job pix. How do you know how much carb adj, to make and to which one? High vs low. High I would assume. Just trial & error by tinkering with it or did you find a sweet spot? (For ex 2&1/4 turns out from bottomed out/ all the way in etc). Thanks agin or all of your help. Really looking forward to better running saws! Scott


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## qbilder

I adjusted the H screw. I had to pull out the limiting cap & shave off the tit with a razor so it could be adjusted further. I tuned it by ear. After the mod, before the adjustment, the saw revved much higher than it did before. It screamed, simply put. It was leaner than I felt safe and revved higher than I was comfortable so I adjusted the H screw out until it began dropping RPM at wide open throttle. I could hear it miss a skip every second or so, and it sounded much deeper than the high scream. I guess the best way to describe it was running WOT and adjusting until it had a deep groggly sound. Not so much that it was drowning, but not so little that it sounded like it was about to lift off to outer space. You'll understand what I mean when you are doing it yourself. 

Before the mod, I was really disappointed with the saw. My kids bought it for me one year as a birthday gift, so I couldn't get rid of it. But I never wanted to use it, either. It sucked. It was a size bigger than the old beat up 029 but ran half as strong. Through the forums I learned what was happening and how the EPA had been restricting the flow. After reading numerous threads about how to mod it, I finally gave it a shot. It worked surprisingly well. The speed of cut is way better, and overall power is noticeably better. It doesn't bog down in a cut like it used to. It has become my favorite saw, replacing the 029. 

There's nothing scientific about the mod. I just did what I thought it should be. I wasn't trying to hot rod it, just wanted to get the power it's supposed to have. 

Here's the new ports cut out. I used a drill and a dremel. I opened it approx. what I thought it should be, comparative to it being 10cc larger than the 029.





Here's the outlet opening. I opened it up to allow more exhaust through, but didn't go crazy with it.


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## S Tebo

*Sounds good*



qbilder said:


> I adjusted the H screw. I had to pull out the limiting cap & shave off the tit with a razor so it could be adjusted further. I tuned it by ear. After the mod, before the adjustment, the saw revved much higher than it did before. It screamed, simply put. It was leaner than I felt safe and revved higher than I was comfortable so I adjusted the H screw out until it began dropping RPM at wide open throttle. I could hear it miss a skip every second or so, and it sounded much deeper than the high scream. I guess the best way to describe it was running WOT and adjusting until it had a deep groggly sound. Not so much that it was drowning, but not so little that it sounded like it was about to lift off to outer space. You'll understand what I mean when you are doing it yourself.
> 
> Before the mod, I was really disappointed with the saw. My kids bought it for me one year as a birthday gift, so I couldn't get rid of it. But I never wanted to use it, either. It sucked. It was a size bigger than the old beat up 029 but ran half as strong. Through the forums I learned what was happening and how the EPA had been restricting the flow. After reading numerous threads about how to mod it, I finally gave it a shot. It worked surprisingly well. The speed of cut is way better, and overall power is noticeably better. It doesn't bog down in a cut like it used to. It has become my favorite saw, replacing the 029.
> 
> There's nothing scientific about the mod. I just did what I thought it should be. I wasn't trying to hot rod it, just wanted to get the power it's supposed to have.
> 
> Here's the new ports cut out. I used a drill and a dremel. I opened it approx. what I thought it should be, comparative to it being 10cc larger than the 029.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the outlet opening. I opened it up to allow more exhaust through, but didn't go crazy with it.



Thank you for the pix- awesome. Gonna give the mod a try tomorrow- I have a 5ft at it's base oak to cut up tomorrow. Not completely sure about what you mean by the "limiting screw/tit" (the location of ?) . I don't have the saw in front of me for reference. Hopefully it will make sense when I look at it tomorrow. If you want to give a verbal location description- that may help- would be great. Otherwise I think I got it! Will let you know how it goes and send a couple of pictures of the handy work. I figure worst I can do is to have to buy a new muffler if I screw it up- but not likely. Scott:hmm3grin2orange:


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## cityslicker

Holy muffler mod! A 5 foot oak your cutting down? Please tell us your are milling it into lumber or it's rotten inside and only good for firewood. Can you post some pictures of it? Please!! Big trees like these are dissapearing way faster than they are growing.


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## qbilder

If you do it to look similar to mine, you'll be fine. Don't go overboard but don't be too conservative, either.

The H screw on the carb will have a red plastic bushing. You'll see exactly what I mean when you look at it. You may need a flash light. Anyway, on that bushing is a tit that sticks out of one side. As you turn it, you'll see where it lines up with a slot on the carb body. When it lines up, pull it out. I had to screw in a drywall screw and use it to to turn the H screw, then when the tit lined up with the slot, I used pliers and pulled on the drywall screw, which pulled the red bushing out. Once out, you'll know exactly what to do. Just shave that tit off with a razor blade and reinstall. Your H screw will now be able to turn without limit. As it is now, the tit on the bushing keeps it from adjusting out far enough. It's the EPS's way of deterring you from modding the muffler.


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## S Tebo

*Mod completed!*



cityslicker said:


> Holy muffler mod! A 5 foot oak your cutting down? Please tell us your are milling it into lumber or it's rotten inside and only good for firewood. Can you post some pictures of it? Please!! Big trees like these are dissapearing way faster than they are growing.



I tried to attach a couple of pix- not sure if I was successful- apple products don't always play nice with websites. The tree I spoke about was on a neighbors property and was blown down by hurricane sandy. The tree was already partially cut up before it was offered to me for firewood. In the one pix- to cut the trunk, I'm standing on a 1.6ft tall stump and I'm 6 ft tall, so the tree was pretty good sized. It was a rain/snow day here in MD, so I used it as a service/sharpen day for my saws & completed the mod on my 310 per your instructions- which were right on the money bye the way. I'll try it out tomorrow and am looking forward to improvements. The 290 is next on my list if all is well with this effort- I'll let you know the results. Thanks again, Scott View attachment 283171
View attachment 283172
View attachment 283173


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## qbilder

Awesome!!! Hopefully you see a difference in the power. That mod looks just right. Nice job 

BTW, did readjust carb?


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## S Tebo

*Lots of wood to test on!*

View attachment 283310
View attachment 283311
View attachment 283312
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View attachment 283314


Unfortunately, today I was not able to adj the carb & test out my handiwork. Tomorrow will tell- a couple of days ago, I had a friend of mine who is a professional arborist help me take down several large dead standing trees on my property, so plenty of wood to test on! Once, I realized that the little metal figure 8 bracket that holds the two orange carb adj screws extensions (that have to be removed & trimmed) actually also comes out of the carb body too, then it got easier. I thought I'd include a couple of pix of the two saws (028 & MS290) that got this whole discussion started, along with the wood. Will let you know.


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## S Tebo

S Tebo said:


> View attachment 283310
> View attachment 283311
> View attachment 283312
> View attachment 283313
> View attachment 283314
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, today I was not able to adj the carb & test out my handiwork. Tomorrow will tell- a couple of days ago, I had a friend of mine who is a professional arborist help me take down several large dead standing trees on my property, so plenty of wood to test on! Once, I realized that the little metal figure 8 bracket that holds the two orange carb adj screws extensions (that have to be removed & trimmed) actually also comes out of the carb body too, then it got easier. I thought I'd include a couple of pix of the two saws (028 & MS290) that got this whole discussion started, along with the wood. Will let you know.



And even more work (& reward!)


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## qbilder

Looks like you got some fun ahead of you! Once you got the saws running the way they should, that job you got won't take long at all. It will be more time & work splitting & stacking. It'll take you a couple hrs. maybe to cut the logs up, then a day to split & stack.


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## S Tebo

qbilder said:


> Awesome!!! Hopefully you see a difference in the power. That mod looks just right. Nice job
> 
> BTW, did readjust carb?



Yep. Ran the saw the first time yesterday since the muffler mod and all I can say is; Hell Yes- I got my saw back! The 310 always ran ok with the 18" bar that I had on it, but when I switched to the 20" for a little more reach- it killed the performance of the saw. I was really disappointed because not only had the saw declined, but I swapped four new 18" chains that I had never used for 20" chains, not to mention the cost of the (now used) bar. I'm amazed at what a huge difference such a small muffler modification can make. I wish I know about it/had done it a long time ago. The saw now runs better, stronger and faster with the 20" bar than it ever did with the 18" bar i had on it to begin with. Very thankful for the advise- Highly recommend it to any one else out there & best of all, it's free horsepower! The pix shows the proof of an afternoon's worth of cutting with a properly running saw. Scott


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## qbilder

Yeah it's hard to explain to somebody what kind of difference they might see. Best I can describe it is like two different saws. My 390 seemed as if it doubled its power. As I understand it, not every saw is as responsive to the mod and supposedly the mod can even go too far that it negatively affects the saw. But my experience has been outstanding. Seems yours was, too. Looks like some big cuts you got there.


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## Silba

andrethegiant70 said:


> Well, LOTS of folks will really pipe up on behalf of the 028. They are of pro quality and very highly regarded. Personally, though, I've never had the love affair some have with the 028. It's pretty heavy for it's power and I'm an old skinny guy these days. My classic saw of choice for that size is the 026, which I find about perfect in the handling and weight category. It does not quite have the power the modern 50cc class has these day but, in my book, it's power is still very good with a few tweaks. There's nothing simpler or more reliable than a decent 026.
> 
> There is one caveat on the 028.. There are several favors from smaller bore, non-chain brake, metal tank versions to the greatly updated 028 super with a larger jug, more power, and a chain brake. They command more $, but even I would think about having one of those around. Soooo... What version do you have?




026 I have for almost 15 years..still working..I changed only sparks


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## H 2 H

Open those mufflers up on those 290/310/390

It only gets better


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