# Guide bar/chain smoking



## 1stihl (Nov 1, 2010)

Hello all!
Would appreciate your advice on this: Stihl MS 361 - bar was smoking a LOT, and chain would dull quickly. Got oiler cleaned/repaired, but it still smokes, and sharpened chains dull quickly. Oil is feeding OK.

Any thoughts?

Thanks.

Dave


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## BlueRidgeMark (Nov 1, 2010)

What are you cutting?


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## 1stihl (Nov 1, 2010)

Usually oak, and other hardwoods (including "soft" stuff like sweetgum). Sometimes pine.

Thx,

Dave


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## sweetjetskier (Nov 1, 2010)

Are the chains sharpened correctly?

Are the chains and bar the same gauge?

Is the oil output great enough to keep the bar oiled sufficiently when cutting ?

Are the grooves in the bar clean of sawdust,etc so the oil can flow ?


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## 1stihl (Nov 1, 2010)

Are the chains sharpened correctly?
ANS: I've always sharpened my own chains, and never had a smoking problem like this. Taught by a pro, and took good notes. Having said that, there could still be error on my part. My next step was to have it sharpened professionally to eliminate that variable. 

Are the chains and bar the same gauge?
ANS: Good question. Will confirm when I get back home.

Is the oil output great enough to keep the bar oiled sufficiently when cutting ?
ANS: I believe so. I was taught to test for that by running full throttle w/ the bar tip a few inches away from a clean surface, and checking for oil that is thrown off the chain.

Are the grooves in the bar clean of sawdust,etc so the oil can flow ?
ANS: Yes, groves are clear. Blow it out routinely w/ high pressure air hose.

Suspect that the bar itself may be worn, but not sure how to tell.

THX!

d


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## Currently (Nov 2, 2010)

What are you using for bar oil?

Has the bar ever been pinched hard felling a tree?
Had to open my groove up using a flat screwdriver a few times.


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## komatsuvarna (Nov 3, 2010)

Is it possibly to get some pictures of your chain up? If you can hold it wide open a couple inches from some wood and it slings a trail of oil like you were talking about, its probably oiling just fine.


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## Gypo Logger (Nov 3, 2010)

My guess is that the bar groove is worn to the point that the chain leans left and right, preventing it from cutting a straight kerf. Flip the bar over and see if that improves things any.
If the bars rails have turned blue and has been continually forced into the wood, you may need a new bar and chain and possibly sprocket.
Is the chainbrake left on? Had to ask, because I've seen it happen.
John


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## Billy Jack (Nov 3, 2010)

Is it possible you are cutting wood that has some sort of abrasive material in higher concentrations than normal? I couldn't tell if your cutting was in one specific location, or in several, by your post.

The quick dulling of the chain sure sounds like a friction/heat issue, but if you are throwing off oil, it should be getting lubrication. Also, can you tell if the chain is substantially hotter/cooler than the bar or is the temp pretty consistent?

The wrong gauge should be readily apparent. I guess a .058 chain could fit tightly in a well-worn .050 bar and be the problem, but I'm still leaning towards an abrasive substance in or on the wood. Last year I was cutting some blown down oak that had been on the ground for some time. It cut fine in most areas, but when I got near the end that was closest to a field (that received regular fertilizer), I noticed that the wood itself looked a bit rotted but actually seemed as hard as concrete. It made the bar smoke and almost immediately dulled three chains on three different saws that had all been cutting fine to that point. Never experienced that before.


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## Art Vandelay (Nov 3, 2010)

Did you file your rakers?


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## TreePointer (Nov 3, 2010)

In addition to all the other suggestions, open the oiler screw *all the way*. The 361 oiler is stingy.

How long of a bar are you using?


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## komatsuvarna (Nov 3, 2010)

Billy Jack said:


> Is it possible you are cutting wood that has some sort of abrasive material in higher concentrations than normal? I couldn't tell if your cutting was in one specific location, or in several, by your post.
> 
> The quick dulling of the chain sure sounds like a friction/heat issue, but if you are throwing off oil, it should be getting lubrication. Also, can you tell if the chain is substantially hotter/cooler than the bar or is the temp pretty consistent?
> 
> The wrong gauge should be readily apparent. I guess a .058 chain could fit tightly in a well-worn .050 bar and be the problem, but I'm still leaning towards an abrasive substance in or on the wood. Last year I was cutting some blown down oak that had been on the ground for some time. It cut fine in most areas, but when I got near the end that was closest to a field (that received regular fertilizer), I noticed that the wood itself looked a bit rotted but actually seemed as hard as concrete. It made the bar smoke and almost immediately dulled three chains on three different saws that had all been cutting fine to that point. Never experienced that before.



Thats interesting billy. Never expierenced it before either, but it makes good sence about that fertalizer. Probably from the lime thats in it, just guessing.


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## Rowan Gliori (Nov 3, 2010)

Billy Jack said:


> Is it possible you are cutting wood that has some sort of abrasive material in higher concentrations than normal? I couldn't tell if your cutting was in one specific location, or in several, by your post.
> 
> The quick dulling of the chain sure sounds like a friction/heat issue, but if you are throwing off oil, it should be getting lubrication. Also, can you tell if the chain is substantially hotter/cooler than the bar or is the temp pretty consistent?
> 
> The wrong gauge should be readily apparent. I guess a .058 chain could fit tightly in a well-worn .050 bar and be the problem, but I'm still leaning towards an abrasive substance in or on the wood. Last year I was cutting some blown down oak that had been on the ground for some time. It cut fine in most areas, but when I got near the end that was closest to a field (that received regular fertilizer), I noticed that the wood itself looked a bit rotted but actually seemed as hard as concrete. It made the bar smoke and almost immediately dulled three chains on three different saws that had all been cutting fine to that point. Never experienced that before.



Also happens with timber from beside sandy beaches... Sand driven into the tree by storms then dulls the chain when you try to cut it. Stihl Duro chains are pricy but help a lot for these situations. 
Check your groove depth, your drivelinks could be bottoming out.

It's good practise to invert your bar daily too, it wears more evenly then. I'm quite obsessive about maintaining my chain-bar combo and rarely have any trouble with it.


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## HorseShoeInFork (Nov 3, 2010)

I smell somethin and it ain't that rotten pumpkin out on the front porch....


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## Art Vandelay (Nov 3, 2010)

HorseShoeInFork said:


> I smell somethin and it ain't that rotten pumpkin out on the front porch....



Do you have a warm sensation in your pants?


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## TreePointer (Nov 3, 2010)

1stihl said:


> *Got oiler cleaned/repaired*, but it still smokes, and sharpened chains dull quickly.



Did it smoke when the dealer tested it after cleaning/repairing the oiler?


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## 1stihl (Nov 3, 2010)

TreePointer said:


> Did it smoke when the dealer tested it after cleaning/repairing the oiler?




He did not say, but that's why i brought it in to him. He flushed out the oiler (bad oil - I'll not do that again), "and tested". Assumed there was no smoke w/ him after that. I ran it for about 1 hours' worth of cutting pine and oak, and it began to smoke again. Chain is sharp - did it myself (including rakers), but dulls VERY quickly as it heats up.

Thanks for the help


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## 2FatGuys (Nov 3, 2010)

Unless I missed it, you never told us what you are using for bar oil.


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## 1stihl (Nov 3, 2010)

2FatGuys said:


> Unless I missed it, you never told us what you are using for bar oil.



Husqvarna bar & chain oil


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## 1stihl (Nov 3, 2010)

Currently said:


> What are you using for bar oil?
> 
> Has the bar ever been pinched hard felling a tree?
> Had to open my groove up using a flat screwdriver a few times.



Husqvarna bar & chain oil

Bar has been pinched...will check as you suggest


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## 1stihl (Nov 3, 2010)

Billy Jack said:


> Is it possible you are cutting wood that has some sort of abrasive material in higher concentrations than normal? I couldn't tell if your cutting was in one specific location, or in several, by your post.
> 
> The quick dulling of the chain sure sounds like a friction/heat issue, but if you are throwing off oil, it should be getting lubrication. Also, can you tell if the chain is substantially hotter/cooler than the bar or is the temp pretty consistent?
> 
> The wrong gauge should be readily apparent. I guess a .058 chain could fit tightly in a well-worn .050 bar and be the problem, but I'm still leaning towards an abrasive substance in or on the wood. Last year I was cutting some blown down oak that had been on the ground for some time. It cut fine in most areas, but when I got near the end that was closest to a field (that received regular fertilizer), I noticed that the wood itself looked a bit rotted but actually seemed as hard as concrete. It made the bar smoke and almost immediately dulled three chains on three different saws that had all been cutting fine to that point. Never experienced that before.



Understand your point about the embeded abrasive material, have experienced it down south w/ dead pine that turned to "liter"...hard as stone. But, this is not the case here. 
On the question about chain vs. bar heat, they are equally hot.


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## 1stihl (Nov 3, 2010)

Art Vandelay said:


> Did you file your rakers?



Yup, briefly file the rakers w/ every sharpening


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## 1stihl (Nov 3, 2010)

TreePointer said:


> In addition to all the other suggestions, open the oiler screw *all the way*. The 361 oiler is stingy.
> 
> How long of a bar are you using?



20" bar.

Where is the oiler screw?

thx


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## TreePointer (Nov 3, 2010)

1stihl said:


> 20" bar.
> 
> Where is the oiler screw?
> 
> thx



I also run a 20" bar on my 361, and I must have have the oiler opened *all the way*. The oiler screw is on the bottom (underside) of the saw. Use the little screwdriver with the orange handle that came with the saw (or another small flat-head screwdriver).


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## 1stihl (Nov 3, 2010)

thanks...you da man


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## Rowan Gliori (Nov 3, 2010)

HorseShoeInFork said:


> I smell somethin and it ain't that rotten pumpkin out on the front porch....



Maybe time you got rid of the pumpkin, no? Before you step in it and fall on your ass.


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## deeker (Nov 3, 2010)

1stihl said:


> Hello all!
> Would appreciate your advice on this: Stihl MS 361 - bar was smoking a LOT, and chain would dull quickly. Got oiler cleaned/repaired, but it still smokes, and sharpened chains dull quickly. Oil is feeding OK.
> 
> Any thoughts?
> ...



Have the depth gages been filed down to match the tooth sharpening?

That would help explain both the smoking and the "dulling quickly".


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## 1stihl (Nov 3, 2010)

deeker said:


> Have the depth gages been filed down to match the tooth sharpening?
> 
> That would help explain both the smoking and the "dulling quickly".



If rakers and depth guages are the same thing (?)...yes. I file them down ea/ time I sharpen.


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## sawkiller (Nov 4, 2010)

Does this chain or your chains have a bluish color particularly at the cutting edge itself? Do they sharpen more easily then they normaly would? What I am getting at is after you overheat a chain it will lose it's temper and never hold an edge for long again at least that's been my experience. It sounds like maybe when your oiler was bad you destroyed a chain or chains and maybe you should try a new one. If the temper is gone even though it is sharp the edge won't last for even a couple cuts then it's dull chain and smoke.

Also do some searching on glint even a chain that appears and feels sharp with glint will not cut!


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## discounthunter (Nov 4, 2010)

allways the equipment never the operator.


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## foche911 (Nov 4, 2010)

*Husky hot sauce*

I actually logged on to ask about bar oil. Following the thread, I saw Husqvarna bar oil mentioned. I have recently had similar problem with Jonsered 2149, Oregon bar. Opened oil all the way, not much better. So I had one quart of Poulan oil that came freepay. Well, it didn't want to smoke and burn anymore..... So what's up with Husky oil (from Lowes)? Poulan is better? Now for the main question, what is the best bar oil? I run Sabre inside the saw, works great. I want a reliable oil for the cutting part also. I won't ever use Husqvarna again. Btw, I started with brand new chain and near new bar. Please give opinions on bar oil...... ......


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## TreePointer (Nov 4, 2010)

foche911 said:


> I actually logged on to ask about bar oil. Following the thread, I saw Husqvarna bar oil mentioned. I have recently had similar problem with Jonsered 2149, Oregon bar. Opened oil all the way, not much better. So I had one quart of Poulan oil that came freepay. Well, it didn't want to smoke and burn anymore..... So what's up with Husky oil (from Lowes)? Poulan is better? Now for the main question, what is the best bar oil? I run Sabre inside the saw, works great. I want a reliable oil for the cutting part also. I won't ever use Husqvarna again. Btw, I started with brand new chain and near new bar. Please give opinions on bar oil...... ......



Other than using the lighter weight b&c oil for cold temperatures, you shouldn't have a problem with any brand of dedicated b&c oil. The problem lies elsewhere.


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## D&B Mack (Nov 4, 2010)

1. I would get a depth gauge and check the depths on all teeth. 2. Make sure you didn't over open your bar, as mentioned before, this can cause your chain to lean and grind on the inside groove of your bar. 3. make sure you are filing even and at a good (aggresive) degree on your teeth. 4. Make sure your bar isn't bent.


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## foche911 (Nov 4, 2010)

It was new never filed chain and near new bar. I had checked oil holes, etc. It never smoked again after I dumped the Husky oil, which looks thinner than the Poulan, which also seems tackier. Again, no problem once I put the Poulan Oil in saw. Never smoked any cutter before except when newbie pushed too hard in very seasoned long down pecan in 100 degrees temp summer day. Maybe bad batch of oil?


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## foche911 (Nov 4, 2010)

Could the oil have been a lighter weight? Winter mix? I seemed light and not tacky.


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## wyk (Nov 5, 2010)

Sounds like the same problem I would have where the bar I got off a dead Farm Boss was out of true. It would wander all over the place if I didn't baby it. Pull the chain and the bar and look down the bar lengthwise. Make sure it is true, and make sure the rails are even in height. A belt sander with a carbide belt will true them quick - don't grind the tip. If it is bent, you need to get it straight, or replace it. I stumped a 24" Birch with a 28" bar and semi skip easily. Yours should have no problem oiling that 20". Also make sure your rakers are right.


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## 056 kid (Nov 5, 2010)

tip maybe.

running too tight possibly too.


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## RandyMac (Nov 5, 2010)

I like chainsmoking, it helps me think.


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## Rowan Gliori (Nov 8, 2010)

wyk said:


> Make sure it is true, and make sure the rails are even in height.



I use an engineer's set square to check they're level. Nice tip on the belt sander though , cheers!


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## stihl 070 (Jun 5, 2017)

Ok can someone please help me Im using tungsten carbide chain its new so is the bar Im running the stihl 066 25inch bar when i was cutting iron bark wood here in Australia last weekend the chain would run off to the left i was thinking it was the chain i put another chain on same thing i chaged the bar same thing im running stihl bar oil heaps of oil on the bar i cant work out whats going on here dose anyone know thanks i also took the chains to the shop they said chains are sharp they dont know aswell thanks


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