# To quarter saw or not?



## BigOakAdot (Aug 13, 2014)

I have a 30" plus red oak tree down in my backyard. My question is when do you decide to quarter-saw wood? Do people quarter-saw all species of wood?

I personally like the natural edge look, but figure I have so much oak down I should look into quarter sawn oak.

I know it's more stable to quarter saw but I'm curious as to what is the deciding factor for you guys. Size or use of finished product? I plan on building tables and stuff with my wood. Thanks!

BOA


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## Dave Boyt (Aug 14, 2014)

Quarter sawn red oak is pretty stuff. You'll get some, no matter how you cut the wood. I assume you're using a chain saw mill, so it would be fairly easy for you to quarter the log, then mill each quarter. It will be especially useful for table tops, since it is less prone to cupping... but how many table tops do you need? I think quarter sawn wood of any species is more stable and very attractive, but oak & sycamore have ray flecks that are particularly desirable.

How you dry the wood is very important. Be sure to have it in an area out of the sun, that the stack is stickered for good air flow, and covered. Then wait for a couple of years. If the wood is properly dried, stability will be less of an issue. Wide surfaces, such as table tops benefit from the quarter sawing, but runners, legs, trestles, etc generally don't.

My criteria for quarter sawing is simple. I generally cut the most efficient way possible, and set the quarter sawn pieces aside for special use. If I am going after quarter sawn lumber for a specific use, I quarter the log and use a cutting pattern like this. Notice that it gives natural edges.


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## BigOakAdot (Aug 14, 2014)

Dave Boyt said:


> Quarter sawn red oak is pretty stuff. You'll get some, no matter how you cut the wood. I assume you're using a chain saw mill, so it would be fairly easy for you to quarter the log, then mill each quarter. It will be especially useful for table tops, since it is less prone to cupping... but how many table tops do you need? I think quarter sawn wood of any species is more stable and very attractive, but oak & sycamore have ray flecks that are particularly desirable.
> 
> How you dry the wood is very important. Be sure to have it in an area out of the sun, that the stack is stickered for good air flow, and covered. Then wait for a couple of years. If the wood is properly dried, stability will be less of an issue. Wide surfaces, such as table tops benefit from the quarter sawing, but runners, legs, trestles, etc generally don't.
> 
> My criteria for quarter sawing is simple. I generally cut the most efficient way possible, and set the quarter sawn pieces aside for special use. If I am going after quarter sawn lumber for a specific use, I quarter the log and use a cutting pattern like this. Notice that it gives natural edges.


Thanks for the insight Dave. So in the above picture, I alternate cuts on each split end? As in make a cut on the left side of that pic, then a cut on bottom and keep alternating? 

If I'm looking to have natural edge tops, does this way of milling limit me on how wide I can make my table? As in not needing to join a bunch of pieces with glue and dowels? Thanks again. 

BOA


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## Dave Boyt (Aug 15, 2014)

How you achieve the pattern depends on your mill. On most mills, either chain saw or band, this pattern requires you to turn the log 90 degrees after each cut so that the cut is always on top and horizontal. After you've tried it, you'll understand why it is not commonly done-- it takes a lot of turning and clamping! You can take a wide slab or two out of the center before starting the quarter sawing pattern. Width of slabs from the center is limited only by the width of the log and the capabilities of the mill. It is impossible to have all quartersawn boards and wide slabs with natural edges on both sides. On the other hand, you can get some real nice bookmatched pieces if you're willing to edge glue the slabs with one natural edge and one straight edge.


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## BigOakAdot (Aug 15, 2014)

Dave Boyt said:


> How you achieve the pattern depends on your mill. On most mills, either chain saw or band, this pattern requires you to turn the log 90 degrees after each cut so that the cut is always on top and horizontal. After you've tried it, you'll understand why it is not commonly done-- it takes a lot of turning and clamping! You can take a wide slab or two out of the center before starting the quarter sawing pattern. Width of slabs from the center is limited only by the width of the log and the capabilities of the mill. It is impossible to have all quartersawn boards and wide slabs with natural edges on both sides. On the other hand, you can get some real nice bookmatched pieces if you're willing to edge glue the slabs with one natural edge and one straight edge.


Yeah the thought of moving a massive piece of oak back and fourth seems like a back spasm waiting to happen. I'll plan on cutting the log in half and then milling a couple slabs from top and bottom pieces. I'll then quarter saw it and go from there. Thanks again for the input!!

BOA


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## Dave Boyt (Aug 15, 2014)

You're welcome. Looking forward to pictures.


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## woodchuck357 (Aug 15, 2014)

You can usually cut 3 or 4 boards at each turn, depending on the size of the log.


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## abbott295 (Aug 16, 2014)

I believe someone has suggested cutting the log in thirds, then stand a third up and take horizontal slices off of that to get a lot of close to quarter sawn boards. A picture was posted, but I am pictorially challenged; sorry about that.


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## BigOakAdot (Aug 17, 2014)

Dave, 
thanks again for the help with my chain question. I haven't made it to the red oak quite yet. Would help if I could find my can't hook but doesn't seem to be anywhere. 

Well I have 2 ripping chains for my 25" bar that had come with my 441 that I sold and I decided to tackle some of my smaller logs first. It took me some time to get up and running, so only got to one small log. I found this walnut that had been sitting for quite some time. Over ten years if I had to guess. 


As you can see it has faded a bit and has a decent amount of cracking. Not bad for a log that's been laying on the ground for a very long time. They're only about 5' long and maybe 14" wide but would make a nice coffee table once it gets some poly. 

I have one more that's just as old, but whoever cut it down left the trunk standing. It had lil saplings growing off of it when I moved in so I cut it down and painted the bottom. Has a nice lil skirt on it too... Will make for some nice pieces. 

This wood seemed to be already extremely dry due to being cut for so long. I'm assuming it would be dry enough in less than a year. What do you guys think? Also, if I we're to make a
Coffee table, when would be the best time to insert some butterfly's? Should I now to prevent further cracking? Thanks for the insight guys this site has been a tremendous help.


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## Dave Boyt (Aug 18, 2014)

Great start on chain saw milling! Now that you've had the thrill of opening up a log, there's no turning back. Looks like nice color and grain in that walnut. It is amazing how long it will last on the ground. There is not a whole lot you can do about the cracking when it is that old. I generally let it do what it wants to, and relieve the stress on its own, then make the decision whether to cut it for smaller pieces, or rip it, joint the edges and glue it back together. Normally, the worst cracking will be along the pith (center of the growth rings). The difference is that green wood can distort a bit to relieve stress, while dried wood is brittle and cracks, instead. Butterfly inserts may help some, but I haven't tried them. Here is an extreme case of stress relief in walnut. It was still usable, cut into smaller pieces.


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## BigOakAdot (Aug 18, 2014)

Thanks Dave! Nothing like opening up a log for the first time. That walnut is nothing compared to some of the pieces I still have to mill yet. I have some cherry as well and decided to do a piece that happened to be the same size as the walnut. 
Only 4' long and about 13" thick but it's a start. I figured I would start on all my small wood first til I get the hang of it. Here's a pic of it stickered and stacked...

Oh and here's a pic of what those walnut logs looked like when I first moved in... 

The one in the back of the pic is the trunk to these two pieces that was still standing and living off of a couple sapling branches. 

BOA


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## woodchuck357 (Aug 19, 2014)

It's been awhile since I have made tables but back then splitting, jointing, and making a t&g join with bow ties after drying worked pretty well.
Routered blind dovetailed cross ties almost as long as the width on the bottom side also helped.


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## Dave Boyt (Aug 19, 2014)

Truly a "trash to treasure" job. I've seen better logs than those chunked up for firewood. Nice job stacking those slabs, though you might want to support the stack with a post. That's exactly the way I stack and sticker slabs, though I run straps around both ends to make them easy to move with a front end loader. Now the hard part... you need to wait for a couple of years.


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## BigOakAdot (Aug 19, 2014)

Dave Boyt said:


> Truly a "trash to treasure" job. I've seen better logs than those chunked up for firewood. Nice job stacking those slabs, though you might want to support the stack with a post. That's exactly the way I stack and sticker slabs, though I run straps around both ends to make them easy to move with a front end loader. Now the hard part... you need to wait for a couple of years.


Haha yeah I know but I need some time to work on my woodworking skills anyway. May take a few classes because I'm truly clueless on that front. No reason to strap mine because everything is done by hand unfortunately. Already feeling it in my back from 2 small logs and I'm only 28 lol. Need to come up with a better system to get the logs up in the air more....


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## woodchuck357 (Aug 19, 2014)

Notch a couple of short fat logs to hold the saw log and parbuckle the saw log onto them up a ramp made from a couple of small logs or timbers.


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## BigOakAdot (Aug 19, 2014)

woodchuck357 said:


> Notch a couple of short fat logs to hold the saw log and parbuckle the saw log onto them up a ramp made from a couple of small logs or timbers.


Yeah I already do something similar. Just need to make it even higher in the air I guess. Thanks for the tips. Pics would be appreciated if anyone out there has some set ups they can share. 

BOA


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## BigOakAdot (Aug 19, 2014)

More related to the title of the thread, here's some pics of the red oak I have down. 
It's 31" in diameter and about 27' before the main crotch. 
And damn straight I must add. It lost another good solid 8' due to the rot from an ant infestation that caused it to come down in the first place.


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## Grey (Aug 23, 2014)

Quarter sawn red oak is real nice. If you can find someone with woodmizer with hydraulics to handle all of the rotating the cant, or if you can get you logs to a mill the will do small jobs like yours it can be done fairly easy, quick with only a modest increase in cost. If this were my log, I would probably get it flitch or cant sawn. This will give you the widest boards with best variety of QS, rift and flat grain patterns and will be cheaper. I normally save 1/4 saw for very specific projects and/or white oak.


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## Dave Boyt (Aug 23, 2014)

WoodMizer isn't the only game in town. I have slabbed up to 30" wide on my Norwood HD36 & milled logs up to 36" diameter. And it is a manual mill.


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## BigOakAdot (Aug 23, 2014)

My alaskan can do up to 36" but I have a 36" bar so I think I can do around 30" logs. Not bad for a chainsaw.


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## cgraham1 (Aug 23, 2014)

Quarter Sawn...


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## Grey (Aug 23, 2014)

If you plan to CSM the logs in place, I would very strongly recommend that you flitch saw. It is by far the easiest, fastest and most economical method of sawing. It will also give you the best variety of a qs, rift and flat / cathedral grains, and the most wide boards. If you can get the logs transported to where you could have portable bandmill come in, or to a local mill, then you can choose between flitch, cant, grade or quarter sawing. Again, I recommend flitch or cant for the best variety of grain patterns and most economical milling, unless you absolutely have a plan that requires qs.


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## Grey (Aug 23, 2014)

P.S. it's gonna take a long time, a lot of gas and a lot of wear and tear on your 660 to CSM those logs. Probably wind up cheaper ($150-250) and faster (2-3 hrs. depending on setup and experience of the sawyer) if you can get a portable bandmiller out there. Might be able to help you skid the logs too for a small fee.


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## BigOakAdot (Aug 23, 2014)

Yeah maybe I should look into that. I'm not familiar with those other kinds of milling techniques. The pic above I would assume is an example of quarter sawn... What in the world is "flitch sawing"?


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## Grey (Aug 23, 2014)

Flitch sawing just means cutting through the log bark-to-bark with parallel 
cuts.http://www.horizonevolutions.com/specialty-lumber/horizon-cutting-techniques.html


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## Grey (Aug 23, 2014)

On the other hand, if you want to make flooring,QS oak makes a very subtle straight grain floor and is super stable and super strong.


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## cgraham1 (Aug 23, 2014)

You will definitely get the most useable lumber by flat sawing them...



Do you guys paint the ends of the boards before you stack them? I've always been told to do it to keep the ends from drying to quickly and checking.


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## BigOakAdot (Aug 23, 2014)

Yeah I'm sticking to flat sawing for nkw since I have nothing but man power. And yes I paint all of my green logs with layex based paint... Seems to help with the cracking.


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## Grey (Aug 23, 2014)

I always end seal. Junky leftover latex paint works great. Some species need it more (oak, beech) than others (walnut). Last project I used Anchor seal and it sure is nice, but I'm not sure it's wort the extra cost.


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## Dave Boyt (Aug 24, 2014)

I think Anchorseal is definitely worth the price, especially on more expensive wood, like cherry & walnut. I end coat the log before milling-- as soon after felling as possible, as the drying through the end of the log starts as soon as the wood fibers are exposed. Cgraham1, that drying illustration is great! Did you draw that?


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## Grey (Aug 24, 2014)

My stacks look very similar to the sketches above with 2 differences. 1. I put more weight on top, especially over the ENDS of the boards. 2. I go ahead and put corrugated plastic roofing sheets over the top with a 8-12" overhang to keep the sun and rain off, also if it's too warm and dry, I can wrap the stack in burlap.







P.S. All ends are anchor sealed. It dries clear.


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## BigOakAdot (Aug 24, 2014)

Stack looks great. I just realized you're the same person who was looking to sell white oak that you had milled. What did it cost you to mill all that freaking wood? Oh, and what part of PA are you from?


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## BigOakAdot (Aug 24, 2014)

What do you guys use for stickers? I have pallets and scrap wood that I cut with the circular saw but do you guys buy wood that's pre cut? I know 1x1 is a good size...


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## Sawyer Rob (Aug 24, 2014)

Just so you guys know, cement blocks are a LOT stronger if you turn them the way they are ment to be built with... Then, you can use less of them in your stacks and end up the same strength.

As for stickers, I mill them out of low grade top logs, it's fast and I can turn out a couple hundred in a fairly short time,






Then I stack them for drying, as you should ALWAYS use DRY stickers,






Lastly, i've found that Anchorseal easily beats out paint in my test, I no longer waste any time/money on paint... Melted candle wax works good too, if you only have a log or two...

SR


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## BigOakAdot (Aug 24, 2014)

Looks perfect but unfortunately I don't have that option because I only own a cs mill. I don't even own a band saw or table saw lol  I will be looking to get into getting a table saw and stuff but as of now SOL


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## cgraham1 (Aug 24, 2014)

Dave Boyt said:


> I think Anchorseal is definitely worth the price, especially on more expensive wood, like cherry & walnut. I end coat the log before milling-- as soon after felling as possible, as the drying through the end of the log starts as soon as the wood fibers are exposed. Cgraham1, that drying illustration is great! Did you draw that?


No. I just saw that somewhere and thought it was cool.


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## KiwiBro (Aug 24, 2014)

Has anyone tried diluted PVA glue as the sealer? I ask because I can get it very cheap in 20L containers here.


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## Grey (Aug 24, 2014)

Sawyer Rob said:


> Just so you guys know, cement blocks are a LOT stronger if you turn them the way they are ment to be built with... Then, you can use less of them in your stacks and end up the same strength.
> 
> As for stickers, I mill them out of low grade top logs, it's fast and I can turn out a couple hundred in a fairly short time,
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info on the blocks. 
I don't own any kind of mill, so I get 1"x3"x8' lathe, split it down the middle into 3/4"x1 1/4" and cut in half to 4' lengths. Goes pretty quick on my bandsaw. I learned this from Groff&Groff Lumber down in Quarryville. 
I'm in Palmyra PA 17078
It cost me about $225 to get the oak milled quartersawn. It would have easily been less than $150 flatsawn.


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## Grey (Aug 24, 2014)

More fun milling and drying pictures. 2 Red oaks, 1250 bd-ft of 4/4. About 1K of it became about 850 sq-ft of flooring in our house.












P.S. The blocks didn't crush with >6 tons of green lumber on them. However, I will use them the "right" way next time.


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## Grey (Aug 24, 2014)

P.S. I can loan you some stickers or make you some at cost if you want.


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## BigOakAdot (Aug 24, 2014)

Wow that seems well worth it to just have someone come for that price and do it. I see you're near Hershey that's, about 1:45 from me. not too far. 

I appreciate the offer on the stickers, if I'm ever over your way I will most definitely take you up on it. You should charge me a lil for your time though. 

Floors and huge stack of wood looks really good man. Makes me super jealous


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## Grey (Aug 25, 2014)

BigOakAdot said:


> Wow that seems well worth it to just have someone come for that price and do it. I see you're near Hershey that's, about 1:45 from me. not too far.
> 
> I appreciate the offer on the stickers, if I'm ever over your way I will most definitely take you up on it. You should charge me a lil for your time though.
> 
> Floors and huge stack of wood looks really good man. Makes me super jealous


If you're ever out this way, just let me know


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