# First Rigging Job



## dblack (Mar 2, 2014)

Hey guys I have my first rigging job in a week and I wanted your advice on the best way to go about things. I have three trees to take down. I'm pretty sure they have been effected by EAB. The homeowner told me they do not want any of the surrounding trees damaged so I have to drop things down a piece at a time. The trees I am taking down are the larger hardwoods in the picture. I was planning on using a groundsman and a rope with a pulley (rigged to the trunk like an artificial crotch) to lower the pieces down slowly. Any advice is welcome. I don't have much experience climbing hardwoods, mostly everything I have done so far is pine. They look to be between 35 and 45 feet tall. Thanks for the help


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## dblack (Mar 2, 2014)

Sorry for the picture being angled it wasn't like that when it was uploaded


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## KenJax Tree (Mar 2, 2014)

Anything underneath the trees besides the swingset?


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## dblack (Mar 2, 2014)

Only the swing set and those evergreens. Which are a pain to climb around anyway. I thought about asking the neighbor on the other side of those trees if he was ok with dropping things in his yard.


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## Tree Pig (Mar 2, 2014)

Honestly I dont see much to them... looks like a pretty basic rigging job... I am thinking you need some time in the kiddy pool.


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## VA-Sawyer (Mar 2, 2014)

Perhaps this should be in 101. What is with all these newbys taking on jobs WAYYYY.... over their heads.


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## Tree Pig (Mar 2, 2014)

VA-Sawyer said:


> Perhaps this should be in 101. What is with all these newbys taking on jobs WAYYYY.... over their heads.


In my opinion if thats over his head he need to find a new career field... or do the smart thing and go hook up with someone to teach him from the beginning.


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## Tree Pig (Mar 2, 2014)

Okay so for me I would go up the large tree to the left first clean it up by removing the branches (indicated by the roughly 5 section or so to take out) setting your rigging spot about where I put the RED block. leave the block in that tree and get over to the next tree. Take it apart, removing all the branches, then piece out the stalk on the way down... repeat with next tree, third tree over you may need to mid point or tip tie the lower branches to clear the evergreens below. Of course you could totally take each tree apart and bring the block with you, but the height of that tree will give you good clearance and speed things up in my opinion.


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## miko0618 (Mar 2, 2014)

i agree. i would rig all 3 from the first tree. i would use a different order. i would remove the lower limbs on the main tree but leave the top. i find the stem being left heavier absorbs the shock better. it prevents the high frequency vibes. when your taking the last top and your in that tree, take it as small as possible. if your groundie cant let the ropes run properly, just have him hold the rope tight. if he leads it then stops it, you can be tossed side to side. remember, smaller is safer.


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## dblack (Mar 2, 2014)

@Tree Pig Thank you very much this is just what I was looking for. And yes I am aware the this job is kind of over my head. I have done some very light rigging on a few loblollys but nothing like this. The way I see it as long as I go slow and keep in mind that smaller is better I should do fine. Every pro started as an amateur once but I am very grateful for the picture from Tree Pig.


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## climbhightree (Mar 2, 2014)

No way your rigging the last tree from the first tree without those limbs swinging directly into the evergreens (before you even give it slack), you don't have enough height for the distance. Same with your first cut, guaranteed to hit the trees unless cut smaller or tip tied. 

I'd go zip line depending on what it looks like where you stood for picture. 

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## EcoTreeCo (Mar 2, 2014)

I wouldn't even rig it up. All of that can be cut and held. Smaller cuts can be thrown wherever you need them and won't damage those evergreens if your aim isn't up to snuff yet. 


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## miko0618 (Mar 2, 2014)

Your going to need a retreive line for the rigging rope to get it back to you. You can use it to control the swing of the branch. You can just use a crotch as friction or a figure 8 works great! If you dont have the height to rig all from the first, do it from the middle. Or from each tree. Or cut and toss them. Its too hard to give the best plan from the internet.


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## VA-Sawyer (Mar 3, 2014)

I agree that it is hard to judge distances and sizes from pictures. I also tend to agree it might be stretching things to rig the third tree from the first one.
To the OP, sorry for being so harsh. It sounds like you have at least been in a tree before. It also sounds like you are aware that this job is pushing your current skill level. That is a step up compared to a few others that have posted lately. You said that all pros started out as amateurs at one time. That isn't so true in this line of work. Most climbers started as groundies dragging brush. If they paid attention, they could learn an lot about rigging, order of tree disassembly, hazards to beware of, and an overall sense of how the job is done.
They then started climbing under the direct supervision of an experienced climber. This allows the student to learn a number of climbing skills without getting killed. Once they have a good sense of the basics, they can progress on their own, adding additional skills learned from places like this, books, watching other climbers, or even from casual conversation.
The point is, the process helps prevent a climber from getting in too far over his head without experienced help around to guide him.


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 3, 2014)

opcorn:
Jeff


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## TreeGuyHR (Mar 3, 2014)

Another consideration is the fact that the EAB is a WOOD BORER, that weakens the wood directly and also encourages wood decay fungi. Limbs or trunks even 4 or 5 in. thick may be weak and break off if loaded by rigging or your own weight. The safest approach for you would be to tie in your lifeline to the larger tree (through a cambium saver or second line tied off at the base, with a carabiner for your tie-in on its end). Then I would cut and toss the two smaller trees, or rig the tops to the mid trunk of each using a false crotch and pulley. Then the largest tree the same way (rigging the top in several pieces, and chunking the trunk down without rigging using break cuts).

Your own safety trumps impact to the site every time!


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## kyle goddard (Mar 3, 2014)

The trees look to be in the evergreens. 
Looks like a pain in the but for a ground guy.

+1 on zipline.


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## NCTREE (Mar 3, 2014)

looks like an easy zipline job with the leylands and limited space you have on the ground.


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## dblack (Mar 3, 2014)

I will try the zip line approach. Whats the minimum diameter trees I should climb? like 5 inches? or 7 or what? thanks for all the help guys.


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## Blakesmaster (Mar 3, 2014)

dblack said:


> I will try the zip line approach. Whats the minimum diameter trees I should climb? like 5 inches? or 7 or what? thanks for all the help guys.


Half inch will hold your weight just fine. I would tie a rope to yourself if climbing anything smaller then that though.


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## climbhightree (Mar 3, 2014)

dblack said:


> Whats the minimum diameter trees I should climb? like 5 inches? or 7 or what? thanks for all the help guys.



If your asking a question like this, you really should be getting someone else to do the tree for you. What climbing gear do you have? Have you climbed trees or rocks using gear before?




Blakesmaster said:


> Half inch will hold your weight just fine. I would tie a rope to yourself if climbing anything smaller then that though.



Umm, a half inch may hold you if your holding onto something else and it is only sharing your weight. But way to small for life support!

The smallest you want to tie into is 3" in diameter, and rope should be at the base of the crotch...and best if going around the trunk, not the branch.


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## dblack (Mar 3, 2014)

Well I did a pine once for someone that was about 5 inches wide on the top half of the tree and it was shaking like a leaf. I climbed it to top it and then tie a line in the top to pull it into a field. I was only looking for some extra thoughts and insight on it.


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## yeahbuddy24 (Mar 3, 2014)

Zipline looks like the way to go, especially since it looks like you need to drag brush a ways....


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## sgreanbeans (Mar 4, 2014)

The questions you are asking are not ones you should be asking online. You need to get hooked up with someone to show you the "ropes" The obvious inexperience that you are displaying here leads to the next question, why are you selling your self as a pro. That is simple stuff, in those pics. Not trying to be harsh, but you have no business doing that. I fear for your safety and fear even more for that persons property. This stuff is not worth getting killed over. I get it, that you need to put food on the table and often guys will take on stuff that is out of their league, this often leads to the guy getting hurt real bad and not being able to provide at all. Be careful man. Switching this to 101


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## Tree Pig (Mar 4, 2014)

climbhightree said:


> No way your rigging the last tree from the first tree without those limbs swinging directly into the evergreens (before you even give it slack), you don't have enough height for the distance. Same with your first cut, guaranteed to hit the trees unless cut smaller or tip tied.
> 
> I'd go zip line depending on what it looks like where you stood for picture.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk




Yeah looking at it, I thought it may be close that is why I suggested tip tie or mid point... could also suspend them between to rigging points and use a tag line to guide them out of the way... but I was guessing he does not have a boat load of equip net or help. Not being sure on the condition of the tree or who is shock loading the drops I thought it may be better if he rigs from a remote point as much as possible... as for the first cut also would be close but looks like the evergreens are a bit behind the tree and with a proper cut should be able to swing it out of the way (yes taking it in a couple pieces is a better idea) best answer as beans reiterated is get some experienced guidance.


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## pro94lt (Mar 4, 2014)

The most complete climber is also limited to a degree by his ground man. Will this be his first rigging job as well? It seems most green groundies either let branches run all the way down then get scared and don't let them run any which can be bad. I don't allow new ground guys to learn rigging where rigging is necessary. I climb and rig them just for a learning session for my guys these are trees that could have just been dropped.


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## teamtree (Mar 4, 2014)

Do you have a GRCS?


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## Nemus Talea (Mar 5, 2014)

dblack said:


> I will try the zip line approach. Whats the minimum diameter trees I should climb? like 5 inches? or 7 or what? thanks for all the help guys.



What gear do you have to set up zip line? Hardware? Box store poly wont cut it.

Experienced groundie to run system?

Careful with dead, compromised ash. Test your TIP with really hard tugs. Check trees base for rot. Sound the trunk with hammer.

Write HOs address on back of groundies hand, in case of 911 call.


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## Zale (Mar 5, 2014)

Hard to tell from the picture but if those trees are not ash, then EAB did not kill them. Before performing any work above, inspect the bases of all three trees. Is there any sign of decay? Sound the the trees to determine internal cavaties. How long have the trees been dead? Are the trees sound enough to rig off themselves? Has there been any recent construction that could have compromised the root systems? You should have answers to all these questions before you leave the ground.


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## miko0618 (Mar 5, 2014)

could you just move some stuff around in the yard and make a landing spot? I feel pretty confident in my wood chucking skills. ask the homeowner if they had leaves. or when they last did. look for dead limbs in the top.


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## pro94lt (Mar 8, 2014)

Get em down?


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## VA-Sawyer (Mar 8, 2014)

I talked with dblack on the phone for about an hour and a half the other night. He comes across much better on the phone than you would expect from some of his posts. He is a young guy that is attending school at Virginia Tech. He has been running his own stump grinding service for a while and thought that tree climbing looked like fun.
He sees that he doesn't really have the skills and gear needed to do this job correctly at this time, so he was going to see if the customer would wait till the end of summer. So far, most of his customers have been friends, family and folks he knows from church. It sounds like he really wants to learn, just doesn't have anyone around to mentor him. He said he has insurance, and basic climbing gear. He knows about not spiking trees except take downs.
He seems to have a good attitude towards climbing, and if he wasn't so far away, I would just drive up and help him for a day or two.
He lives off I-81 southwest of DC. Any AS tree guys in the area? Gotta be somebody here that can give this guy a bit of help.
So many young guys today just want life handed to them, this guy impressed me as one that liked tree work and was willing to work for it.
Rick


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## climbhightree (Mar 9, 2014)

If he truly wants to learn and get into the business (and goes to VA tech), I would highly recommend him taking their forestry classes. There they will teach him the basics of climbing and rope work. More importantly they will teach how trees grow, identification, proper pruning etc. 

My former boss went there, so I know it is a good forestry school. I went to psu mont alto for forestry tech, it is what got me into this field and gave me the education to do it correctly. 

But it isn't a end all. When I got out of college, I thought I could climb and do it all. But some things you can't learn in school, and it is best to work with a company for a bit to expand that knowledge. 

Not saying you need college education, just saying it can be a great stepping stone/base. 

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## dblack (Mar 10, 2014)

Yes thank you @VA-Sawyer for talking to me. I got some great advice. I have decided to wait a few months until I have more climbing experience and rigging gear to take down those trees. I am only a Sophmore at VT so I can't take any forestry classes yet because I am still in Bio and the prereq classes. I also agree that there is a balance to getting hands on education and book education. Too much of one or the other is bad.


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## VA-Sawyer (Mar 10, 2014)

Glad to help. I thought maybe somebody closer might take you under their wing for a bit. I didn't want to give out too much info about your case, because I respect other peoples privacy. Still, I thought folks should know that you are not some 'basket case' loser. I have a friend visiting DC right now. If I had known further ahead, I could have driven up to see him, and given you a hand. Two birds, one stone.
Hang around and keep reading. AS will give you a hand from time to time.
Rick


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## Nemus Talea (Mar 12, 2014)

Ata Boy VA Sawyer! Great job lookin out for a new guy.

However, dblack may get into the climbing biz thanks to your assistance. I see it now...

Years in the future he'll be high in a half dead tree. Suns heat cooking his brain through his helmet, gnarled hands, aching back, creaking knees, bees stinging his armpits. He suddenly raises his chainsaw to the heavens (with broken starter cord) and screams "Curse you VA Sawyer!"


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## VA-Sawyer (Mar 12, 2014)

It's how I get even for the guy that taught me.

Oh yea, that tree will be deadly dead and rotten, with no drop zone below! And it will be windy as all get out too.


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## sgreanbeans (Mar 13, 2014)

Nemus Talea said:


> However, dblack may get into the climbing biz thanks to your assistance. I see it now...
> 
> Years in the future he'll be high in a half dead tree. Suns heat cooking his brain through his helmet, gnarled hands, aching back, creaking knees, bees stinging his armpits. He suddenly raises his chainsaw to the heavens (with broken starter cord) and screams "Curse you VA Sawyer!"



LOL, awesome.


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## Nemus Talea (Mar 15, 2014)

VA-Sawyer said:


> It's how I get even for the guy that taught me.
> 
> Oh yea, that tree will be deadly dead and rotten, with no drop zone below! And it will be windy as all get out too.



Yeah! I'm a bit embarrassed to not have included wind.


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## VA-Sawyer (Mar 15, 2014)

You still painted a pretty good image in my mind. 

I just finished up a session with a student. Today was his second time at actually going up a tree. It was a scraggly Black Locust with some vines. His tip was only 12 to 15' from the top. All the way up and inspect his tip. Maneuvered to each of the 3 main stems. Up and down on his friction hitch, including an inverted hang. He was looking pretty fair moving around up there. Very little 'hugging' took place.
Someday in the future, he will probably be cursing my name as well.


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## Nemus Talea (Mar 16, 2014)

VA-Sawyer said:


> You still painted a pretty good image in my mind.
> 
> I just finished up a session with a student. Today was his second time at actually going up a tree. It was a scraggly Black Locust with some vines. His tip was only 12 to 15' from the top. All the way up and inspect his tip. Maneuvered to each of the 3 main stems. Up and down on his friction hitch, including an inverted hang. He was looking pretty fair moving around up there. Very little 'hugging' took place.
> Someday in the future, he will probably be cursing my name as well.



Black locust? Dude, yer mean.

Sounds like ya got a student with a head for the game, makes you look good.

How many guys are you instructing, mentoring and advising personally? Good on you for the time and effort.

Dblack, hope to hear more from ya. I'm sure VA gave you plenty to chew on. Go slow, safe first.


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## VA-Sawyer (Mar 16, 2014)

Did that on purpose. The first climb in the Magnolia was supposed to be fun. Yesterday, we both wanted to find out if he could deal with something more realistic to tree work. He doesn't want to spend money for gear, if he can't hack it up in the air. The Locust is next to my shop and was handy for the purpose. He went up that tree multiple times! He knew it wasn't supposed to be fun, but he still seemed to enjoy himself.


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## pops21 (Mar 17, 2014)

^ And that I did rick, although I did get a little cut up. Hanging upside down was the highlight of the climb! Now if only I can get more free time to climb more. Nemus, va sawyers shop is only 10-12 min from my house so it works out pretty good. My only problem is free time.


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