# Man dies in tree accident



## stehansen (Sep 8, 2005)

I don't know these guys and the article didn't even mention a tree company so they were probably just 3 guys cutting trees. Here is the link.


http://www.modbee.com/local/story/11187755p-11940346c.html


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## Tom Dunlap (Sep 9, 2005)

Is that a ladder leaning against the tree?

It looks more like a takedown than a job where "a few branches" are being removed.


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## stehansen (Sep 9, 2005)

Tom Dunlap said:


> Is that a ladder leaning against the tree?
> 
> It looks more like a takedown than a job where "a few branches" are being removed.



Yeah, I'm pretty sure that is a ladder leaning against the tree, and yeah it looks like a takedown in progress.

I'll bet the homeowner is in for some misery and is really sorry he didn't hire someone legit. But on the bright side he probably saved a few hundred dollars.


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## RedlineIt (Sep 11, 2005)

Hmm...

The ladder we see may belong to the Fire Dept/Rescue team. We don't know.

RedlineIt


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## Ekka (Sep 12, 2005)

_One of the men apparently tied himself to the tree 20 feet up to cut the limbs with a chainsaw, officials said.

"He was not properly equipped," officer Rick Applegate said.

A large branch apparently broke loose and hit the man in the head, officials said. The rope appears to have then cinched him to the tree._

Two problems actually, not properly equipped or skilled if a large branch broke loose and hit him.

Unfortunately they sound like hacks and judging by the stubs up there I'd say had no idea. This is what needs to be prevented, what is the cost of this fatality? Poor bugger is now dead and no second chance.


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## njforestfire (Sep 12, 2005)

Well....maybe the rest of the crew can ask the FD to keep the ladder there so they can finish the job....


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## BlueRidgeMark (Sep 12, 2005)

> a homeowner ... paid the man and two co-workers to cut limbs off a tree.




Street corner hiring hall, OR they were doing lawns and the homeowner asked about doing his tree, too.

Sad.


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## notahacker (Sep 13, 2005)

That was avoidable!


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## stehansen (Sep 13, 2005)

BlueRidgeMark said:


> Street corner hiring hall, OR they were doing lawns and the homeowner asked about doing his tree, too.
> 
> Sad.




I'll bet they were landscapers.

Ekka, around here insurance companies will normally end up paying around a million dollars on a death. We all know that you can't put a price on a person's life. I don't know how you are going to stop this or how to reach these guys to let them know not to do tree work that you can't do from the ground unless you are trained.


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## Ekka (Sep 13, 2005)

It is a sad situation, sometimes fuelled by customers greed to get things done cheap, also fuelled by desperado's trying to make a buck.

It can be stopped, simple and in a nut shell.

Apply the same principals as electricians, scaffolders, multi-story buildings etc. Around here, the business owner could be fined and even jailed if found negligent and failing to observe OHS industry guidelines ... serious stuff. Was there a Hazard Assessment completed for the job, was the cutter working within his capabilities, was the appropriate fall restraints used ... no, no, no ... therefore it's clear that they are in breach of something and the boss or principal contractor could be dealt with. Unfortunately it's all too late after the event to save a life.

Good prevention starts when the guys leave their front door. It is time for licencing and regulation. 

What makes this industry so different from others that it not be licenced?

Also, around here if he were a self employed contractor just doing stuff with his mate etc the insurance payout would be NIL!

And for the record, I as an owner and principal contractor would be entitled to NIL over here on a death accident unless I had and paid for my own personal cover. So for all we know that guys family could be in the same boat.


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## stehansen (Sep 13, 2005)

You are required to have a contractor's license in california to do a tree job over $300.00. The test to obtain this license is for law only, not tree skill or knowledge, however you are required to document 3 years of journeyman level experience in the tree industry to get your license. The idea being that $300.00 or less is a minor tree job and people can gain experience without getting into trouble. The trouble is that people routinely ignore or are ignorant of the law. If this guy hadn't gotten killed we would have never known about this. Also many people are rather casual concerning tree work and are not aware of the forces generated by a falling peice of wood. This was not a business owner that hired these guys it was a homeowner. I assume that a business owner would have been more in touch with the laws of the state. His homeowner's insurance will probably end up paying out on the death to the family of this guy. The only person that I can remember who was aware of the forces generated was a guy who was an airconditioning guy and he brought home a man lift from work and started cutting on his trees and came down after about five minutes and told his wife to start calling tree companies, that this was too dangerous for him to do on his own.


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## Ekka (Sep 13, 2005)

Well then there's something in the pipeline, they may down the track increase the skill base for that licence but there's a start.

Also over here the home-owners policy would not pay out, most have a general exclusion for contractors and treework. Those guys would be totally on their own.

Perhaps with this $300 rule is why the story reads "were taking a few limbs off" to make it look as though they were doing a small job within the rules.


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## stehansen (Sep 14, 2005)

Perhaps with this $300 rule is why the story reads "were taking a few limbs off" to make it look as though they were doing a small job within the rules.


You are probably right.


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## daveyclimber (Sep 15, 2005)

I believe it is $500 , not $300 mentioned above . Where I live in Nor Ca we have about 12 local hacks running their business' stating they are licsensed when in fact they only have a city business licsense which is for tax purposes . However there are only 4 legit comanies , one for which I work . Serves the guy right in my opinion , yeah it sounds harsh but you know ???? well that the guy knew he was beyond his capabilities . Mechanics dont use $ store tools , auto body painters dont paint your car with a roller , use the right tools for the job and have the right knowledge for the job . The real losers are this fools family and friends , they will be the ones who suffer . I also think the client should be punished civil and legal , put some pressure on the cheapskates to hire reputable workers in fields they are qualified for .


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## fpyontek (Sep 15, 2005)

daveyclimber said:


> Serves the guy right in my opinion , yeah it sounds harsh but you know ???? well that the guy knew he was beyond his capabilities . Mechanics dont use $ store tools , auto body painters dont paint your car with a roller , use the right tools for the job and have the right knowledge for the job . The real losers are this fools family and friends , they will be the ones who suffer .



daveyclimber, are you for real ? No one deserves to die for a mistake, especially while trying to make a meager living. Arrogance (thinking you know it all ) is probably more dangerous than ignorance (this unfortunate fellow). 
The burden should fall on the homeowner, he should have known to ask for proof of insurance. That would have stopped this accident before it could happen.


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## daveyclimber (Sep 16, 2005)

Yes I am for real , It is unfortunate and sad that he died , but he was just asking for it . I wonder how many other jobs this guy has done and how many close calls he had , many I suspect . That is why I feel he got what he asked for . The few measly dollars he has made using substandard practices aint gonna put any food on the table and it aint gonna raise his kids . Let this be a lesson to home owners : YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR . Hire Qualified Professional Contractors who have workers compensation , business liscense , contractors liscense and Liability Insurance and a good reputation :angel:


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## darkstar (Sep 16, 2005)

you forget about the american dream .... where we all can start somewhere ... why do you think many states like tennessee require NO workmans comp on tree men unless the owner has 5 or more fulltimers ... gives the young bucks a way to start out maybe not the best way but .... its called the american dream ... and the results death and damage happen at the expense of it ... id rather be in a tree than a traffic jam ... bad, bad break .....dark


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## stehansen (Sep 16, 2005)

Back in my dark days as a computer tech I worked with a guy who's wife worked for Cal OSHA. I will try to find out the details so we won't have to speculate so much.


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