# Hardy H4 Steam from around stack



## hondaracer2oo4 (Jan 30, 2012)

I installed an older Hardy H4 last fall. It was manufactured in 91. It has been working flawlessly so far. Today I peaked in to check the water in the top of the can where you check the water level and it appeared to be much lower than I would have figured since I filled it only a few days ago and it seems as though I usually have to add water every 10 days or so. So I thought that was a little odd but I couldn't remember how far I had filled it the last time so I couldn't really confirm if I had gone through more water than usual. Well tonight when loading it I noticed a lot of steam coming out from around the stack bezel which slides down over the stack and is really just a beauty ring to make things look better. Now I have always noticed steam coming from around this but it seems to be more than usual and interestingly enough it increases a lot when I open the loading door which I can't wrap my head around why that would be. Anyways just wondering if anyone had any thoughts on this. Does everyone elses steam from around there? I had the boiler spray foamed so I cant really see much around the stack when I take it off but I have noticed that there is a collar within a collar that that stack slides down into, not sure why it was built like this. Anyways thanks for your input!


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## Aaron441 (Jan 31, 2012)

What is your water temp when it is doing this? Mine will steam a little sometimes, but the auto fill always keeps water in the tank. Does yours have auto fill?
When you have the door open putting wood in, the fire is getting all the air it wants, so it can get hot pretty quickly. If your aquastat is set high enough that your water is already almost boiling, when you open the door and the fire starts burning uncontrolled, this will make it steam.


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## J.W Younger (Jan 31, 2012)

When you pull the vent pipe and look down in the opening you will see a pipe thats about 1" diameter. This is the fill pipe and needs to kept at about half or so covered. If the auto fill feature is not there or is no longer working, when you add water its possible to add faster than the fill pipe will flow especially if its partially clogged with mineral desposits. Sounds like you are getting water on the top outside of the firebox. You may also have a leak in you hot water coil or water jacket, lets hope not.


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## hondaracer2oo4 (Jan 31, 2012)

I do not have the water fill feature hooked up. I fill using the return line to the boiler from inside the house and just feed through there. I did this so I wouldn't have to run another line out to the boiler. So what I ussually do is fill a little from the house and go take a look at where the water has filled up to. Typically I keep the water halfway between the overflow and the bottom. I don't use the watercoil in the unit itself either. I keep my aquastat at 185 for the high limit. I can't really see where the steam is coming from because when you take the vent pipe off you see lots of smoke coming from the top. I could probably put a cap though and open the loading door and try to find where the steam comes from. It is hard to see since it has been spray foamed.


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## Big L (Jan 31, 2012)

You should install an auto fill valve inside the house on the return line imo. The boiler is a pressure vessel, and will operate better under pressure ... usually around 15 psig. If there is steam being released from around the stack, there's a few possible problems; An external pipe within the jacket is leaking, The T&P valve is leaking (snap it open a couple times trying to seat the valve), Or you have a leak in the vessel itself, typically at a weld or seam.
Do you have a pressure gauge anywhere on the system? If you do, let the fire go out, pressurize the system to 15 psig, then isolate the boiler from the house. Then listen carefully at the boiler ... hear any hissing?? If there is, try to locate it and repair the leak.

Hope this helps.


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## J.W Younger (Jan 31, 2012)

:confused2:


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## hondaracer2oo4 (Jan 31, 2012)

Big L,

This is actually not a pressurized boiler but rather open to atmosphere, also no way to add an auto fill in the house since it is open to atmosphere unless I ran a wire back to a solenoid in the house with a level sensor on the boiler outside.. Also you guys seemed confused about where the steam was coming from. It is coming from around the smoke stack, not the water stack. I know that there are a bunch of guys with Hardys on this forum and was hoping some people who own them would be able to chime in.


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## Big L (Jan 31, 2012)

hondaracer2oo4 said:


> Big L,
> 
> This is actually not a pressurized boiler but rather open to atmosphere, also no way to add an auto fill in the house since it is open to atmosphere unless I ran a wire back to a solenoid in the house with a level sensor on the boiler outside.. Also you guys seemed confused about where the steam was coming from. It is coming from around the smoke stack, not the water stack. I know that there are a bunch of guys with Hardys on this forum and was hoping some people who own them would be able to chime in.



Yeah, sorry about that ... I read up on the Hardy after I posted. I'm an old gas/oil boiler guy, just assumed it was a pressure vessel ... actually, I thought they stopped making non-pressurized water boilers way back!

Hope you find your solution from other Hardy owners


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## hondaracer2oo4 (Feb 4, 2012)

Any other Hardy owners out there?


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## J.W Younger (Feb 4, 2012)

hondaracer2oo4 said:


> Any other Hardy owners out there?


Yes see post 3.


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## roger m (Feb 4, 2012)

i have an H4 and mine leaked steam around the condensation stack when real cold out and would have a little puddle on top,my Hardy dealer was a good friend and neighbor he sadly passed away last October,i asked him about it and he told me the older Hardy's wasn't as tight fitting as the new ones,he told me they retooled the die that makes the ring that the condensation stack goes in he told me to get an o-ring that fit the stack under the flange and when you install the stack to roll it down to the ring to help seal it and just push the flange back down,it made a lot of difference,i change the o-ring every fall,i don't use the autofill because our ground water has a lot of sodium in it which will erode the tank seams after a while,i add about 3 gallons of water every 30-45 days,i collect rainwater off of my shop and use it:msp_biggrin:


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## roger m (Feb 4, 2012)

almost forgot,i fill it until the water comes out the overflow,mine has a pex tube that runs alongside the hot water blow-off valve when i see it starting to drip i know it is full:msp_thumbup:


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## hondaracer2oo4 (Feb 4, 2012)

Hey guys thanks for the replys and sorry for the confusion. It is not around the vent stack that the steam is coming from, I would expect that, it is coming from around smoke stack.


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## hardy steve (Feb 4, 2012)

I also have a hardy.The only time will steam is if the damper shuts down and the fire is still roaring. i think its radiant heat that builds up.It doesn't happen very often.Even if you fill manually there should still be a red light that lets you. W when it needs water.And it goes out when you fill it to full level.


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## hondaracer2oo4 (Feb 5, 2012)

Hardy Steve, I think you are referring to around the condenser stack though correct? Mine is coming from around the smoke stack. It used to do it only when I would load the boiler and the water temp would rise real quick. Now it seems to do it much more often and also when Im not filling it. I am losing more water than I used to so I deffinitly think I have a leak of some sort from somewhere but its hard to find without removing the cover. I had the whole furnace spray foamed last year too and the cover was difficult to get back on. When I got it on I said ' That things never coming off again' . I guess I was wrong. Ill wait until the off season unless something bad happens to investigate. Someone on the hearth forum said that they had a leak around the door on an h2 and it would make steam come from around the stack when they opened the door. Guy never came back though to say what or where it was.


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## J.W Younger (Feb 5, 2012)

hondaracer2oo4 said:


> Hardy Steve, I think you are referring to around the condenser stack though correct? Mine is coming from around the smoke stack. It used to do it only when I would load the boiler and the water temp would rise real quick. Now it seems to do it much more often and also when Im not filling it. I am losing more water than I used to so I deffinitly think I have a leak of some sort from somewhere but its hard to find without removing the cover. I had the whole furnace spray foamed last year too and the cover was difficult to get back on. When I got it on I said ' That things never coming off again' . I guess I was wrong. Ill wait until the off season unless something bad happens to investigate. Someone on the hearth forum said that they had a leak around the door on an h2 and it would make steam come from around the stack when they opened the door. Guy never came back though to say what or where it was.


Both the condensation and exhaust stacks are enclosed in the same outside shell. The inverted funnel slipped around them is the to prevent out side water from collecting on hot surface and causing steam. It is common to see some steam at times and does not allways indicate a problem. If you are loosing more water than normal from evaporation its likely coming from someplace other than the top of the unit but steam rises and has to exit someplace. My auto fill has'nt worked for several years and has given me a good handle on whats normal.
Hope it works out OK for you.


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## roger m (Feb 5, 2012)

the older Hardy's had a square fire box opening that was bad about cracking in the upper corners,the newer ones have a rounded top of the opening,i am not sure when they changed it mine is 4 years old and a friend of mine has one that he bought new 8 years ago and it has the rounded opening,i have seen the water tanks leak at the seams,some people have had them welded but they didn't last very long,my neighbor that was a hardy dealer usually ended up replacing the tank


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## wkeev (Feb 5, 2012)

You may want to take off the outside shell and check for a leak . Mine leaked several years ago . I hade water on the concrete around the stove . Once you take it off you should be able to see the leak ,I had alot of lime around the leak you couldn't miss it . Hardy replaced the firebox at no charge .Hope this helps


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## hondaracer2oo4 (Feb 5, 2012)

Thanks for the info guys! My Hardy was built in 9/91 so it should fall within the 25 year warranty but I can't find any info on the warranty on the website? Can you explain a little more about where the leak was in the firebox? Mine is all square as far as I can see but im not sure exactly where you are referring to. Also how would they go about replacing the firebox? Thanks!


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## roger m (Feb 5, 2012)

it sounds to me like your water tank could be leaking if it is steaming around the chimney,the water soaks up in the insulation and steams around the chimney pipe,you would have to remove the cover and check the corners and where they bend the metal in a brake,that is usually where i have seen them leak,good luck on your Hardy:msp_thumbup:
Roger


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## hondaracer2oo4 (Feb 5, 2012)

Thanks Roger for the advice. I had the boiler spray foamed this past fall so I will have to pull the cover at some point and start looking for a leak. Kind of surprised that the jacket would start leaking on the outside? Doesn't seem to make much sense. Anyone know the specifics of the 25 year warranty? Thanks.


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## roger m (Feb 5, 2012)

i would definitely contact your nearest dealer,he could tell you the ups and downs on the warranty and might be able to cover the repair and get upgraded parts at the same time,good luck:msp_thumbup:


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## hondaracer2oo4 (Feb 7, 2012)

Talked to Richard the tech at Hardy yesterday. Think we have figured out the problem without removing anything. I didn't know this but the way they are built the top will come right off of the thing. It is held on but sheet metal screws and then they silicone the whole top seam to keep steam from getting out. Well when they put the top on they also put a bead of silicone around the area of the stack to keep steam from coming out from around the smoke stack flange. So if figured that they silicone after 21 years has failed so I used high temp silicone between the smoke stack flange and the water tank flange which reduced the steam to almost nothing! If I had known that the unit was built this way I would have taken the top off and re siliconed everything before the guy spray foamed it. So I guess I need to decided whether or not to cut off the top of the foam and re silicone everything. So far though I am losing MUCH less water than before. Also if anyone didn't know the warranty is pro rated. Between 20-25 years I would have to pay 85%!!!! of the repair costs! Thanks a lot Hardy for standing behind your product....NOT!


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## NC4AB (Feb 7, 2012)

The top is held down on the edges with self drilling stainless screws. The center hole at the smoke stack sits on a flange that has a heavy bead of RTV on it. 

If you plan on taking the top off you will need to have some new screws on hand, I seem to always break one or two in the process of removing the top and usually just replace them all. Normally not too much trouble to pull the top and re seal, but if it is spray foamed it sounds like it may be a PITA.

Also you might want to pull a 1/4" poly water line and feed the auto fill valve, if the Hardy is run with low water it will be toast.


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## hondaracer2oo4 (Feb 7, 2012)

It will be a pita to do but I would rather have it be this simple than have a bigger issue on my hands! I wish I had known that the top came off before I had the guy spray foam it. I looked at the top with the silicone and thought that it was an extra piece for structurally stability or something. I really do like the fact that it comes off though and it sounds like I would also be able to remove the firebox if I ever had to for repairs. My brother in law is a professional welder and is the one the tig welded a new piece in the back where the previous owner had screwed things up. So I am pretty excited to know that this thing is basically rebuild-able! As far as the water line goes, I didnt want to run another line out there for the water because of the cost and extra work but I think I should have know thinking about everything. It really wouldn't have cost much to run 1/4 pex out there. Ohh well, live and learn. I do check the water quite often. Usually once a day when I am putting wood in it and keep a close eye. I would like to put a high temp shut down on the boiler so that if it had a run away or low water situation and got hot, it would shut itself down. Sounds like a project for the summer. I have a Redi-check smoker remote thermometer that monitors all the time and I have the high temp set to 195 so I would know if I was home that it was overheating. Anyways thanks for every ones help!


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## MVrana (Feb 8, 2012)

hondaracer2oo4 said:


> Talked to Richard the tech at Hardy yesterday. Think we have figured out the problem without removing anything. I didn't know this but the way they are built the top will come right off of the thing. It is held on but sheet metal screws and then they silicone the whole top seam to keep steam from getting out.



This is exactly the problem I have with my H4. The top seam with silicone leaks and steam escapes, finally exiting the shell at the flue pipe. There's always some water on the top of the furnace from this. I've been dealing with it for about two years now, but in reality it's not that big of a deal. Just keep tabs on your water level. I don't use the auto-fill due to chloride in my water, so I just add a gallon of water by hand once a week. Some day I may get around to pulling the shell and actually fixing the problem, but for now I'll just add water.....


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## hondaracer2oo4 (Feb 8, 2012)

Im not surprised that I am not the only one with the issue. Seems encouraging though that you have had the issue for two years now with nothing getting any worse. I would have pulled the cover right off when I found out how easy the problem was to fix if it were not for the fact that the whole thing is spray foamed. I think I could cut a notch of foam out though around the whole top by the seam and repair it that way without having to cut off all of the expensive foam! Thanks again everyone.


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