# I hate low ballers



## Carburetorless (Jan 26, 2012)

Someone asked me to take down a tree for them, a Pine around 24" in diameter, about 35' high, and has so many limbs that it would difficult to climb without trimming it out on the way up to top it.

She wanted it taken down without damaging other landscaping around it, so I decided the best approach would be to limb it on my way up, then top it out, drop down part way and top it again, then drop the remainder, and cut it up. She wanted it cut into short logs and moved to the other side of the house where the city could pick it up, so there was no chipping or haul off required.

I told her I would do it for $350. I actually thought I might have been under bidding the job, but she said that was too much, then she went into how she had "a guy" cut down a much larger tree a few years ago for $175. She said he had two helpers and a chipper, and it only took them a few hours.

I tried to explain to her that I would have to make at least $175 just to break even, let alone if I was paying two helpers and maintaining a chipper. 

Sure two helpers would make the job go much quicker, but they wouldn't work for nothing, nor would I. 

Finally she said she was going to call the guy, but she heard that he had hurt his leg, and I thought to myself "No he didn't hurt his leg. His helpers quit, his equipment wore out, and he wasn't able to replace any of it on what he was making". 

Why do these guys work for nothing? I mean it's easier to over bid a job and get it than it is to under bid jobs and work yourself to death for nothing. What are these guys thinking?


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## Huskytree (Jan 26, 2012)

*WOW man*

You take things to personal. You know what you need to get out of the job, if they choose not to use you then so be it. What does it matter what the next guy charges? 

I just looked at a job that I didn't get, someone must have under bid me. If they can do it for less and give the same service I don't blame the Home owner to go with the lower cost. But I know what I want and need out of the job.


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## lone wolf (Jan 26, 2012)

Carburetorless said:


> Someone asked me to take down a tree for them, a Pine around 24" in diameter, about 35' high, and has so many limbs that it would difficult to climb without trimming it out on the way up to top it.
> 
> She wanted it taken down without damaging other landscaping around it, so I decided the best approach would be to limb it on my way up, then top it out, drop down part way and top it again, then drop the remainder, and cut it up. She wanted it cut into short logs and moved to the other side of the house where the city could pick it up, so there was no chipping or haul off required.
> 
> ...



Well they arent experienced enough to know what it is worth.Or they are low rent dirt bags with no insurance or overhead.Or they work for a tree Company and that is more money than they make there in a day.Or they are Tweekers and need Meth now!!!


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## Alex D (Jan 26, 2012)

How do you even know that her story isn't bs in the first place???


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## Oak Savanna (Jan 26, 2012)

When people tell me that they have another guy who will do it stupid cheap I say well go with them then! Most of the time its BS, just the homeowner trying to get you to go even lower. This happend to me with a homeowner, oh ya some one else can do it for way less. Ok fine then, the guy phones me back a week later and says can you come and take that tree down that you quoted, the other guy cant make it! Sometimes there is no other guy! Its BS! ask the homeowner to see that low ball price in writting!! People like that I tell em my price is good for 24hrs. Then if they call you back you might be able to charging alittle more. I call it a$$hole tax! There is an old saying : better to do nothing for nothing than do something for nothing. Stick to your price, you know what you need to make on the job.


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## Carburetorless (Jan 26, 2012)

Alex D said:


> How do you even know that her story isn't bs in the first place???



Whether her story is true or she's just trying to get me to drop price; What's the difference; It's BS anyway you look at it. 

I told her she had better hang on to that guy and treat him well, cause no one else would ever do it that cheap.


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## tree md (Jan 26, 2012)

Get really good at something then learn how to specialize in it. Then learn how to market your service. Then learn how to do it in the most economical way (without a chipper and two ground hands). Then learn how to advertise it. Then build a reputation on your work. Then you will realize that most anyone can do a 35' tree and in most situations that will not require a pro. Then you will learn not to even leave the house for a 35' tree that someone else got a good bid on for $175.


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## abureels4me (Jan 26, 2012)

It happens on everything not just job bids. I sell a lot of saws, mowers, weed eaters etc.. and I hear all the time "my buddy just got one for...." or "A guy at the flea market is selling them for.." I make it a practice to price a little higher so they can feel good that they haggled me down but some of them are really out there. I just tell them to have a nice day and go on with my life.


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## Havana woody (Jan 26, 2012)

Some potential clients are just toxic customers and as soon as you get that feeling you should just walk away and have no regrets .


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## Scrat (Jan 26, 2012)

Huskytree said:


> You take things to personal. You know what you need to get out of the job, if they choose not to use you then so be it. What does it matter what the next guy charges?
> 
> I just looked at a job that I didn't get, someone must have under bid me. If they can do it for less and give the same service I don't blame the Home owner to go with the lower cost. But I know what I want and need out of the job.



X2 I Agree! don't take it personal, don't get aggravated, there are plenty of miserable people who would be glad to have that aggravation so let them have it and YOU enjoy the pleasures of our business of trees!


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## superjunior (Jan 26, 2012)

tree md said:


> Get really good at something then learn how to specialize in it. Then learn how to market your service. Then learn how to do it in the most economical way (without a chipper and two ground hands). Then learn how to advertise it. Then build a reputation on your work. Then you will realize that most anyone can do a 35' tree and in most situations that will not require a pro. Then you will learn not to even leave the house for a 35' tree that someone else got a good bid on for $175.



I agree but on the other hand those little piss jobs make great "fillers" I call them. You got the call and went to look at it right? So you already got $ into it..Those little jobs will fill in for an un-expected short day, in between 2 bigger jobs, ect.. They can help in making the quota for the day and if the landscapers beat ya to it you didn't lose much.


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## ForTheArborist (Jan 27, 2012)

I finally realized that these stingy people were gaming me a while ago. Many people do not care if you make money. It makes them warm in side. I can tell because of the smiles I've seen on these people's faces. 

I've found many people that don't care how much you charge, just don't be ridiculous about it.


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## himiler (Jan 27, 2012)

A good book to recommend is "The Powers of Negotiation" by Roger Dawson. What the homeowner did is explained in detail along with mucho other tricks of the negotiating trade. It happens to us in one way or another every day, it's just that most of us don't realize it, and the trick is to learn how to play the game. 
You're a *business* man in the profession of trees, *not* a treeman in the employment of a business. It's a hard concept for some to transition to. Trust me, I'm still a schmuck when it comes to this and it seems like I'm an idiot more often than not. Can't tell you the number of times I've walked away from a bid or job kicking myself the whole way.
Steve


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## no tree to big (Jan 29, 2012)

this reminds me of a time I bid a job I looked at it when no one was home I called the guy to tell him the price I said 800 he was like what? 225??? i'm like NOOO 800 again he said huh 225? NO F'n 800! Well I have a guy that will do it for 250 that was almost a year ago tree is still standing and its only getting deader so it will take twice as long to do the removal because everything is going to explode when it hits the ground plus its a long azz drag out a narrow gate. Whats even worse its like a 750,000 dollar house and the tree is in the middle of his nice azz paito and the guy wong spring to get the tree removed:msp_confused:


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## Pintony (Jan 29, 2012)

A little off topic but I'm with you on the "I HATE LOWBALLERS"
I have a Stihl for sale. In that I mean I would like to sell it... I WANT, not "NEED" to sell it.
I just had some Jackass call me and start telling & yelling at me how and why my price is too high.
After making me MAD then tries to buy my saw.
I told the guy to... well u-know... 
These Aholes really need to work on their buying tactics.....
Sorry my spanish is no so well...


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## bushwacker101 (Jan 29, 2012)

I dont mean to sound mean but there will always be low ballers its a fact of our industry deal with it! Anyone can go and buy a chainsaw, watch a few video's on youtube and have at it, until HO's are educated on what to look for in a tree care or removal provider (other than price) we'll always have lowballer's. Every year I see two or three start-up and by the end of the season there gone never to be seen again, and we as legit service providers pay the price for there incompetence and lack of knowledge. I know how frustrating it is when you have some hack biding a $800 job for 200 bucks, I deal with it too but I'm not going to work for free and risk my rep for the HO to save a buck or two. To end it with look at it this way, "They probably didn't have the money to pay ya anway"

Ben
Bushwacker Tree Removal


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## sgreanbeans (Jan 30, 2012)

A 35ft tree is something that I would do as a fill in, on the way in or out to a big job. Unless the thing is in some crazy location. I cant imagine something like that, with a good crew, taking more than 20 minutes or so. That is one of those deals that the chipper gets fired right up and as it comes down it gets cleaned up. When I get to the stump, everything else should be done. If I have a bunch of them, sometimes we go out and do just those. They make for fun easy days, good coin too, if ya can get a bunch of them stacked up


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## Carburetorless (Jan 30, 2012)

sgreanbeans said:


> A 35ft tree is something that I would do as a fill in, on the way in or out to a big job. Unless the thing is in some crazy location. I cant imagine something like that, with a good crew, taking more than 20 minutes or so. That is one of those deals that the chipper gets fired right up and as it comes down it gets cleaned up. When I get to the stump, everything else should be done. If I have a bunch of them, sometimes we go out and do just those. They make for fun easy days, good coin too, if ya can get a bunch of them stacked up



For sure.

I had to go by there today, the tree is still there so evidently the $175 guy either turned her down or doesn't even exist.

After looking at it again, the tree is more like 45' high by 26" at the base, but limb-E-er than any tree I've ever seen. 

Something I noticed is the house next door has a bunch of pines that are way bigger than that one and in terrible shape. I might end up doing it for her for less so I can get the business next door.:biggrin:


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## Huskytree (Jan 30, 2012)

*hmmm*



Carburetorless said:


> For sure.
> 
> I had to go by there today, the tree is still there so evidently the $175 guy either turned her down or doesn't even exist.
> 
> ...



Better hope they don't checkout your rating on here!


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## Carburetorless (Jan 31, 2012)

Huskytree said:


> Better hope they don't checkout your rating on here!



It's easy to judge people when you can hide behind the anonymity of the internet; Isn't it?


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## Tree Pig (Jan 31, 2012)

Carburetorless said:


> It's easy to judge people when you can hide behind the anonymity of the internet; Isn't it?



Its also easy to judge people when they are clueless posers.


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## Huskytree (Jan 31, 2012)

*hiding?*



Carburetorless said:


> It's easy to judge people when you can hide behind the anonymity of the internet; Isn't it?



Who is hiding? How am I hiding? There are a few people on here that know me. I will also be trying to make the CT GTG so come on up.


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## Tree Pig (Jan 31, 2012)

Huskytree said:


> Who is hiding? How am I hiding? There are a few people on here that know me. I will also be trying to make the CT GTG so come on up.



Just so you dont have a hard time finding him he is the one in the middle.



Stihl-O-Matic said:


> The only thing you have to do is look at weight limits for certain climbing gear. You will not climb as fast or as long as most of the smaller guys but you can do it if you want to do it.
> 
> from left to right Im 6' 280 Huskytree 6'5" 270 and Bomber 6'3" 230... all three climb. Even at 46 and 280 I can still rope climb (lard thrust) pretty well when I have to.


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## Huskytree (Jan 31, 2012)

I am only 6'4" unless I grew an inch there Stihl-O-Matic!


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## Carburetorless (Jan 31, 2012)

Huskytree said:


> Who is hiding? How am I hiding? There are a few people on here that know me. I will also be trying to make the CT GTG so come on up.



I wasn't referring to you.

Are you trying to pick a fight or what? There's no other reason for you to being replying my posts, you and your buddies are just spoiling for a fight.

Everything you've said to me has been negative and uncalled for, so why don't you give a rest!


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## Huskytree (Jan 31, 2012)

*Really?*



Carburetorless said:


> It's easy to judge people when you can hide behind the anonymity of the internet; Isn't it?



Are you positive you weren't referring to me? Because this is your quote above where you quoted my post. I am crystal clear you were referring to me.

I am not here to pick any fights. My fighting days are over.

Maybe if you posted like a normal person you wouldn't have so many issues on here.


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## ddhlakebound (Jan 31, 2012)

Carburetorless said:


> I wasn't referring to you.
> 
> Are you trying to pick a fight or what? There's no other reason for you to being replying my posts, you and your buddies are just spoiling for a fight.
> 
> Everything you've said to me has been negative and uncalled for, so why don't you give a rest!



He's referring to me.......he didn't like common sense being told to him on the subjects of tree hackery and climbing gear which meets ansi standards. Apparently he believes anyone who disagrees with him is "flaming" him. 

Hey carbie, have you noticed that your reception here is not being well received by many? Or any? Don't worry man, I'm sure it's all of us, and that you're just fine. Don't sweat it.......

You may now carry on with your tantrum.


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## ddhlakebound (Jan 31, 2012)

Carburetorless said:


> Something I noticed is the house next door has a bunch of pines that are way bigger than that one and in terrible shape. I might end up doing it for her for less so I can get the business next door.:biggrin:



Just wanted to point out the irony of the OP being the same person who's now suggesting low balling the job this thread was started in regards to, in order to have an in to work the next door neighbors trees.

Funny huh?


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## Carburetorless (Jan 31, 2012)

ddhlakebound said:


> He's referring to me......



Yes I was referring to you.



> he didn't like common sense being told to him on the subjects of tree hackery and climbing gear which meets ansi standards. Apparently he believes anyone who disagrees with him is "flaming" him.



I don't recall there being any common sense in your reply to me, not picking at you or anything, it's just that if you did intend to be helpful all was lost in the rude manner in which you went about it.

I'm not your beer drinking buddy, I've never met you in my life, I no nothing about you; What am I supposed to think when you reply to my post like that???

Some guy asks if anyone knows anything new/different so I gave him something he might not know, and you decide that it's your duty to jump down my frigging throat over it????

Who the #### died and made you God?! Does your #### not stink?! Are you perfection in it ####ing finest?! Are the rest of us just peeons for you to #### with?! 

I've got a #### load of ####ing problem to deal with in my life man, and you're not one of them, so #### off!


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## ddhlakebound (Jan 31, 2012)

Carburetorless said:


> Yes I was referring to you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



LMAO.......

My first post in response to you.....


> I completely agree w/ Bomber, Del, and tree md.
> 
> I'd walk away every time before hacking that beauty.
> 
> ...



I didn't single you out in any way......but if the shoe fits......we'll then wear it. 

My second post in response you to, in another thread.....



> Simply as an FYI, screw lock biners are not up to standards. All life support biners should be triple action, and for good reason. Not because the ANSI will arrest you, but because the ground will arrest you if your screw lock unexpectedly opens.



Sorry to have been so mean to you Carbie.


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## Tree Pig (Jan 31, 2012)

Huskytree said:


> I am only 6'4" unless I grew an inch there Stihl-O-Matic!



well im down to 273 now that I am back in the gym so Ill be hiding behind the log because I am skinny now and scared.


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## ddhlakebound (Jan 31, 2012)

Carburetorless said:


> Oh well just glad to hear that you have so good where you are that you don't have to do what it takes pay the bills pal!
> 
> Good for you, why don't you have a laugh at the expense of the less fortunate! You ####ing prick!




Sorry for the sidetrack.....maybe now we can get back to the topic of this thread. 

I've had 2 or 3 measly little jobs this month, and I'm hurting financially every bit as much as the next guy, BUT....

I'm not gonna get on here and whine about it, because it's January. It's always this way. Hopefully next year I'll have done a better job of putting aside enough cash to make it through the winter more smoothly.

AND....

I'm not gonna start working for less than it's worth, because that only further degrades the market, and makes things even worse on down the road for everyone who's in this biz.

AND.....

I can sit home and go broke without wearing out my equipment by lowballing jobs. It's far better than bustin ass for a pittance, and ending up with worn out gear and a worn out body when the time rolls around to start making some decent money.

BUT.....

You go ahead and whine, and lowball, and rant and throw a tantrum. I'm sure all of those will help your situation lots.


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## treeclimber101 (Jan 31, 2012)

ddhlakebound said:


> Sorry for the sidetrack.....maybe now we can get back to the topic of this thread.
> 
> I've had 2 or 3 measly little jobs this month, and I'm hurting financially every bit as much as the next guy, BUT....
> 
> ...



Well there is one positive at least one D BAG HERE knows where to start his stupid idiotic thread .....:eek2:101


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## treeclimber101 (Jan 31, 2012)

When I read threads like this I swear I wish I could invent a button that I could press that would have a spring loaded fist pop out and knock the taste outta the OP's mouth :eek2:


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## lone wolf (Jan 31, 2012)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> well im down to 273 now that I am back in the gym so Ill be hiding behind the log because I am skinny now and scared.



Good to here you are back at the gym.


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## Tree Pig (Jan 31, 2012)

ddhlakebound said:


> Sorry for the sidetrack.....maybe now we can get back to the topic of this thread.
> 
> I've had 2 or 3 measly little jobs this month, and I'm hurting financially every bit as much as the next guy, BUT....
> 
> ...




Him posting about low ballers tells a lot. I guarantee he is new to the business or at least being on his own in it. Maybe a groundman that thought hey that doesnt look too hard. First off if your whining about low ballers you have not been bidding jobs long because unless your a low baller hack then you get pretty use to getting under bid. He is also talking about low balling to get a neighbor. Granted in the right situation it can pay off to do a job cheap to get in a neighborhood. Storm damage work for instance can spread like wild fires. But if you have a good name then in them type situations you are usually turning people down not dropping your price to get work. Another tell tale sign that he has not done this long is that he is willing to lose money to get work period. This is hard and dangerous work and one time of losing your ass on a job is enough to tell you that its not worth killing yourself for peanuts. Last thought is he just doesnt have anything else to talk about because he is just starting out and thought "hey Ill look cool if I complain about low ballers"

Just my humble opinion.


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## Huskytree (Jan 31, 2012)

*Gym*

What are you swimming and playing raquet ball? Hey there are a bunch of hotties there. :hmm3grin2orange:


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## Tree Pig (Jan 31, 2012)

lone wolf said:


> Good to here you are back at the gym.




hey are you calling me fat? :msp_blushing:


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## Huskytree (Jan 31, 2012)

*Its been a while since I have been in the pool there*

But I doubt you will fit in that pool, and I know there is no way that head is going to!

I wouldn't call you fat. You are a big beast and as strong as two ox.


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## lone wolf (Jan 31, 2012)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> hey are you calling me fat? :msp_blushing:



Negative on the fat.And I know you are kidding.I get in there about 2 or 3 days a week with free weights.


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## Tree Pig (Jan 31, 2012)

lone wolf said:


> Negative on the fat.And I know you are kidding.I get in there about 2 or 3 days a week with free weights.



I am hitting the free weights like 3 times a week and running 45 minutes a day (only on like 5.5 or 6.0) usually 5 or 6 days a week. Got to get in shape gonna do tons of work this spring.


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## Tree Pig (Jan 31, 2012)

I see 101 lurking in here... and lots of ammo floating around, I feel something good coming.


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## Huskytree (Jan 31, 2012)

*work*

What kind of work? LMAO


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## lone wolf (Jan 31, 2012)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> I am hitting the free weights like 3 times a week and running 45 minutes a day (only on like 5.5 or 6.0) usually 5 or 6 days a week. Got to get in shape gonna do tons of work this spring.



Well thats pretty good cause of your size.Whats that like 11 minute mile?And if you can hold 5 or 6 for 45 min you are in shape.


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## pdqdl (Jan 31, 2012)

ddhlakebound said:


> My second post in response you to, in another thread.....
> 
> _Simply as an FYI, screw lock biners are not up to standards. All life support biners should be triple action, and for good reason. Not because the ANSI will arrest you, but because the ground will arrest you if your screw lock unexpectedly opens. _
> 
> Sorry to have been so mean to you Carbie.



I remember that post. When I read it, I did a small cheer inside, because it is so true.

I have had them unscrew on me. I even had a Petzl tri-act get tripped wide open once by sliding ropes, so it always pays to pay attention.


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## Tree Pig (Jan 31, 2012)

lone wolf said:


> Well thats pretty good cause of your size.Whats that like 11 minute mile?And if you can hold 5 or 6 for 45 min you are in shape.



yeah 10 - 11 minute mile ( I can run it faster obviously if I run all out) I am working my way back up I can run all day on 5.5 but if I go much over 6 I have to drop back down after like 5 or 6 minutes I have been doing 20 minutes at a jog then doing some sprint/jog work but its coming back. For an old fat dude I do okay.


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## treeclimber101 (Jan 31, 2012)

lone wolf said:


> Negative on the fat.And I know you are kidding.I get in there about 2 or 3 days a week with free weights.



Thats funny you may be one of only a hand full of girls I know who use free weights ...woof ....:msp_thumbup:


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## treeclimber101 (Jan 31, 2012)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> yeah 10 - 11 minute mile ( I can run it faster obviously if I run all out) I am working my way back up I can run all day on 5.5 but if I go much over 6 I have to drop back down after like 5 or 6 minutes I have been doing 20 minutes at a jog then doing some sprint/jog work but its coming back. For an old fat dude I do okay.



Believe it or not ......NOW I AM EMPHASING A LONG TIME AGO , I could run a low 5min mile


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## Blakesmaster (Jan 31, 2012)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> I see 101 lurking in here... and lots of ammo floating around, I feel something good coming.



What's Eddie gonna bust on ya for, being fat? That's like me calling Paul a drunken loser! lol


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## Tree Pig (Jan 31, 2012)

pdqdl said:


> I remember that post. When I read it, I did a small cheer inside, because it is so true.
> 
> I have had them unscrew on me. I even had a Petzl tri-act get tripped wide open once by sliding ropes, so it always pays to pay attention.



thats what got this thread all twisted sideways in the first place we were all just trying to give him possible life saving information and he just told all to f off and acted like he knew it all.


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## tree md (Jan 31, 2012)

I am usually the first one to ##### about low ballers. Can't stand them. Especially when they don't know how to climb, are mortgaged to their teeth with bucket truck and boom truck debt and are doing jobs for a third of the worth just to make a payment.

Times have gotten hard in the past few years. You have to adapt and overcome. It sounds like the woman really wanted to give him the job but not feed his chipper and two groundys... I mean you got out of work construction workers and landscrapers who will drop a 35 footer and haul it off for a bill. The only way you are going to be able to make any profit on a tree like that is to either pick it up on the way to or from a larger job, put a few of them together and knock them all out in one day, or hook your trailer to your pickup, head down there by yourself, drop it, drag the whole thing to the trailer one handed, cut it in half, load it and haul it away...

Just my opinion.


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## tree md (Jan 31, 2012)

treeclimber101 said:


> Believe it or not ......NOW I AM EMPHASING A LONG TIME AGO , I could run a low 5min mile



I could run a 2 minute mile if SOM was chasing me down the road... :biggrin:


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## Tree Pig (Jan 31, 2012)

Blakesmaster said:


> What's Eddie gonna bust on ya for, being fat? That's like me calling Paul a drunken loser! lol



lol or like AA calling this Carb dude a clueless idiot who cant take a hint.


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## treeclimber101 (Jan 31, 2012)

Blakesmaster said:


> What's Eddie gonna bust on ya for, being fat? That's like me calling Paul a drunken loser! lol



How dare you call SPARKLES a loser , a fall down liver spotted , skinny jeans wearing, marlboro smokin,pen stealing, coffee spilling, no license having garage rat ......yes......... but drunken NEVER ........Oh and lets not forget green chariot sewn to his chick ass ...


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## Carburetorless (Jan 31, 2012)

ddhlakebound said:


> Sorry for the sidetrack.....maybe now we can get back to the topic of this thread.
> 
> I've had 2 or 3 measly little jobs this month, and I'm hurting financially every bit as much as the next guy, BUT....
> 
> I'm not gonna get on here and whine about it, because it's January. It's always this way. Hopefully next year I'll have done a better job of putting aside enough cash to make it through the winter more smoothly.



Let's get something straight first.

I'm not whining about anything. You're picking at everything I say, and I'm telling you to stop picking. If you can't talk to me without picking at something, then don't talk to me at all.

I don't pick apart everything you say, and I don't want you picking apart what I say; Fair enough?



> AND....
> 
> I'm not gonna start working for less than it's worth, because that only further degrades the market, and makes things even worse on down the road for everyone who's in this biz.



I've known that for 10 years, but it hasn't stopped the lowballers or the politicians or whomever is responsible, from driving the market down to the point that it's take a job like that now and then or starve.



> AND.....
> 
> I can sit home and go broke without wearing out my equipment by lowballing jobs. It's far better than bustin ass for a pittance, and ending up with worn out gear and a worn out body when the time rolls around to start making some decent money.



I'm not lowballing, I'm trying to make ends meet, pay the bills, keep the lights on, keep the heat on, keep tires on the vehicles, and keep the sheriff from coming to my doorstep with warrants in dept.



> BUT.....
> 
> You go ahead and whine, and lowball, and rant and throw a tantrum. I'm sure all of those will help your situation lots.



Like I said, I'm not whining. 

Now you're trying to have a discussion about a subject that you ridiculed me for bringing up; Aren't you whining by doing so, or is it only whining when I do it?

If you wanted to discuss lowballing with me, you should have done it before you trashed me out.


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## Tree Pig (Jan 31, 2012)

tree md said:


> I am usually the first one to ##### about low ballers. Can't stand them. Especially when they don't know how to climb, are mortgaged to their teeth with bucket truck and boom truck debt and are doing jobs for a third of the worth just to make a payment.
> 
> Times have gotten hard in the past few years. You have to adapt and overcome. It sounds like the woman really wanted to give him the job but not feed his chipper and two groundys... I mean you got out of work construction workers and landscrapers who will drop a 35 footer and haul it off for a bill. The only way you are going to be able to make any profit on a tree like that is to either pick it up on the way to or from a larger job, put a few of them together and knock them all out in one day, or hook your trailer to your pickup, head down there by yourself, drop it, drag the whole thing to the trailer one handed, cut it in half, load it and haul it away...
> 
> Just my opinion.



Great MD thanks for shooting holes in my theory :msp_mad:


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## Blakesmaster (Jan 31, 2012)

treeclimber101 said:


> How dare you call SPARKLES a loser , a fall down liver spotted , skinny jeans wearing, marlboro smokin,pen stealing coffee spilling, no license having garage rat yes......... but drunken NEVER ........Oh and lets not forget green chariot sewn to his chick ass ...



I forgot all about you Jersey homeboys and your baggy jeans, you wear your ballcap sideways too? Bet you like to chill out with a Colt 45 and a pack of Newports at the end of the day don't ya?


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## treeclimber101 (Jan 31, 2012)

OH and I love the fact that he's banned sitting at home swilling down Dave's delivery stewing that he can't come on and tell us to scratch off ...:eek2:


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## treeclimber101 (Jan 31, 2012)

Blakesmaster said:


> I forgot all about you Jersey homeboys and your baggy jeans, you wear your ballcap sideways too? Bet you like to chill out with a Colt 45 and a pack of Newports at the end of the day don't ya?



Nope pubic face , but we don't wear them tight enough that it looks like were smuggling a banana split in our undies , but on the other hand I am def. not one that should ever "do" forming fitting :eek2:


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## ddhlakebound (Jan 31, 2012)

Carburetorless said:


> Let's get something straight first.
> 
> I'm not whining about anything. You're picking at everything I say, and I'm telling you to stop picking. If you can't talk to me without picking at something, then don't talk to me at all.
> 
> ...



You keep talking, but all I can hear is Wa-wa-wa-wa-wa-snivel-wa-wa-wa.


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## treeclimber101 (Jan 31, 2012)

Can someone please make my sig pic just a bit smaller than I can copy it , I am way not smart enough to figure it out myself , it so offensive and yellow ...


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## tree md (Jan 31, 2012)

View attachment 220985


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## Carburetorless (Jan 31, 2012)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> Him posting about low ballers tells a lot. I guarantee he is new to the business or at least being on his own in it. Maybe a groundman that thought hey that doesnt look too hard. First off if your whining about low ballers you have not been bidding jobs long because unless your a low baller hack then you get pretty use to getting under bid. He is also talking about low balling to get a neighbor. Granted in the right situation it can pay off to do a job cheap to get in a neighborhood. Storm damage work for instance can spread like wild fires. But if you have a good name then in them type situations you are usually turning people down not dropping your price to get work. Another tell tale sign that he has not done this long is that he is willing to lose money to get work period. This is hard and dangerous work and one time of losing your ass on a job is enough to tell you that its not worth killing yourself for peanuts. Last thought is he just doesnt have anything else to talk about because he is just starting out and thought "hey Ill look cool if I complain about low ballers"
> 
> Just my humble opinion.



Oh Wow, you're amazing, you must have a crystal ball to be able to read my exact thoughts like that. :eek2:

Was that how it was for YOU starting out? Tell me; How were things back in 2008?


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## treeclimber101 (Jan 31, 2012)

tree md said:


> View attachment 220985



OMG thank you from the entire group of guys that post behind me ....


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## Blakesmaster (Jan 31, 2012)

Carburetorless said:


> Oh Wow, you're amazing, you must have a crystal ball to be able to read my exact thoughts like that. :eek2:
> 
> Was that how it was for YOU starting out? Tell me; How were things back in 2008?



lol. In 08 he was still trying to figure out where the gun holster was in his fancy new tree climbin toolbelt.


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## Carburetorless (Jan 31, 2012)

ddhlakebound said:


> You keep talking, but all I can hear is Wa-wa-wa-wa-wa-snivel-wa-wa-wa.



That's your echo coming back out of your other ear.:hmm3grin2orange:


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## Carburetorless (Jan 31, 2012)

pdqdl said:


> I remember that post. When I read it, I did a small cheer inside, because it is so true.
> 
> I have had them unscrew on me. I even had a Petzl tri-act get tripped wide open once by sliding ropes, so it always pays to pay attention.



Yeah, but who's got time to do a gate check with "HIM" around?:hmm3grin2orange:


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## Carburetorless (Jan 31, 2012)

tree md said:


> I am usually the first one to ##### about low ballers. Can't stand them. Especially when they don't know how to climb, are mortgaged to their teeth with bucket truck and boom truck debt and are doing jobs for a third of the worth just to make a payment.
> 
> Times have gotten hard in the past few years. You have to adapt and overcome. It sounds like the woman really wanted to give him the job but not feed his chipper and two groundys... I mean you got out of work construction workers and landscrapers who will drop a 35 footer and haul it off for a bill. The only way you are going to be able to make any profit on a tree like that is to either pick it up on the way to or from a larger job, put a few of them together and knock them all out in one day, or hook your trailer to your pickup, head down there by yourself, drop it, drag the whole thing to the trailer one handed, cut it in half, load it and haul it away...
> 
> Just my opinion.



Yeah, that's what I had planned, drag the whole thing, one handed, throw it on the trailer....left handed, and haul it around to the street side of the house, back up and slam on the brakes.:msp_thumbsup:


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## Tree Pig (Jan 31, 2012)

Carburetorless said:


> Oh Wow, you're amazing, you must have a crystal ball to be able to read my exact thoughts like that. :eek2:
> 
> Was that how it was for YOU starting out? Tell me; How were things back in 2008?



Havent you been reading along I am in training to Start out in the spring. Heres my training video... notice always safety conscious with the safety orange. Besides we are not talking about me. 

[video=youtube;Q2-rcvIlqHI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2-rcvIlqHI[/video]

Honestly dude your probably a good guy and I realize you are just trying to make ends meet which I respect. But to me you really came off wrong with your know it all rock climber attitude. Maybe I am wrong but as far as I am concerned you have to prove that now, if you want to get treated with respect.


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## Carburetorless (Jan 31, 2012)

Huskytree said:


> Better hope they don't checkout your rating on here!



Yeah, me too, that rep thing is gayer than you are.


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## Carburetorless (Jan 31, 2012)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> Havent you been reading along I am in training to Start out in the spring. Heres my training video... notice always safety conscious with the safety orange. Besides we are not talking about me.
> 
> [video=youtube;Q2-rcvIlqHI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2-rcvIlqHI[/video]



Hey cool video; What are you in training for the National Farting Championship?




> Honestly dude your probably a good guy and I realize you are just trying to make ends meet which I respect. But to me you really came off wrong with your know it all rock climber attitude. Maybe I am wrong but as far as I am concerned you have to prove that now, if you want to get treated with respect.



Now I get it, you hate rock climbers, cause one banged your girlfriend.  :frown:


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## tree md (Jan 31, 2012)

Carburetorless said:


> Yeah, that's what I had planned, drag the whole thing, one handed, throw it on the trailer....left handed, and haul it around to the street side of the house, back up and slam on the brakes.:msp_thumbsup:



Well your certainly no MBA scholar thinking someone is going to pay you what, $500... $475, whatever for a 35 foot tree. Not that I blame you for trying but you are way out of touch with the current market and economical situation. The woman pretty much told you you had the job if you could drop some of your overhead and do the job a little more reasonably priced. She even gave you the other bid. It was your decision whether you wanted to do it or not. Just don't cry about it here, everyone else is having to deal with the same thing and pay their bills, just like you.


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## Tree Pig (Jan 31, 2012)

Blakesmaster said:


> lol. In 08 he was still trying to figure out where the gun holster was in his fancy new tree climbin toolbelt.



lol I never bought a fancy belt (its time now) I went from one old 4d saddle to the new wideback orthopedic saddle you so fondly named and even that dont have enough attachment points. I mean after I clip on my how too books




, my lunch pail



and my tophandle



I am out of room.


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## Blakesmaster (Jan 31, 2012)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> lol I never bought a fancy belt (its time now) I went from one old 4d saddle to the new wideback orthopedic saddle you so fondly named and even that dont have enough attachment points. I mean after I clip on my how too books
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Dude, you're putting WAAAAYYY too much effort into your posts with all the pics and whatnot. On the other hand, what else you gonna do while at work? Lord knows you don't need another muffin.


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## Carburetorless (Jan 31, 2012)

tree md said:


> Well your certainly no MBA scholar thinking someone is going to pay you what, $500... $475, whatever for a 35 foot tree. Not that I blame you for trying but you are way out of touch with the current market and economical situation. The woman pretty much told you you had the job if you could drop some of your overhead and do the job a little more reasonably priced. She even gave you the other bid. It was your decision whether you wanted to do it or not. Just don't cry about it here, everyone else is having to deal with the same thing and pay their bills, just like you.



$350 That's only $10 a foot, you can't buy bologna for $10 a foot.


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## Tree Pig (Jan 31, 2012)

Blakesmaster said:


> Dude, you're putting WAAAAYYY too much effort into your posts with all the pics and whatnot. On the other hand, what else you gonna do while at work? Lord knows you don't need another muffin.



Nah man I am at home, so its sit here and waste time or talk to the wife so Ill post some pics... muffins are for girls I am all in for donuts and not them sissy powder donuts or glaze crap I am talking huge f---ing apple fritter. 

Oh yeah if anyone is keeping track

and then there were three... AA FTA and this Carb dude


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## no tree to big (Jan 31, 2012)

Carburetorless said:


> $350 That's only $10 a foot, you can't buy bologna for $10 a foot.



since you said it that way it makes it seem like you are way over charging. all you have to do is think every time you throw a log in the truck, man another $20 bill, hey that one was 25 bucks right there... and you will feel much better about the lower paying jobs


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## tree md (Jan 31, 2012)

Carburetorless said:


> $350 That's only $10 a foot, you can't buy bologna for $10 a foot.



Well welcome to 2012. Like I said, I don't blame you for trying but around here someone would have scarfed that up for $175, been done in a half hour and been eating steak that night. As I'm sure someone was in your neighborhood. Not that I blame you for sitting that one out either. I have my bottom line and do not go below it. I priced one like that last week for $200 and $50 for the stump. $250 total. It was literally right around the corner from the condo complex account I have... Never heard back from him and wouldn't have come back for less. Would have taken about an hour to an hour and a half, stump included.


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## Huskytree (Jan 31, 2012)

*Stihl-O-Matic*

That vidoe was tff. Looks like it was in Willamantic, if that kid had a bigger head I would swear it was you!

Carbie You aren't smart enough to keep your piehole shut when people that know way more then you ever thought about knowing try to help you. Then when they give you the chance to step away and keep some dignity, you fuel the fire. You are absolutely brilliant.


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## deevo (Jan 31, 2012)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> Nah man I am at home, so its sit here and waste time or talk to the wife so Ill post some pics... muffins are for girls I am all in for donuts and not them sissy powder donuts or glaze crap I am talking huge f---ing apple fritter.
> 
> Oh yeah if anyone is keeping track
> 
> and then there were three... AA FTA and this Carb dude



Hmmmm fritters! My favourite!


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## Carburetorless (Jan 31, 2012)

tree md said:


> Well welcome to 2012. Like I said, I don't blame you for trying but around here someone would have scarfed that up for $175, been done in a half hour and been eating steak that night. As I'm sure someone was in your neighborhood. Not that I blame you for sitting that one out either. I have my bottom line and do not go below it. I priced one like that last week for $200 and $50 for the stump. $250 total. It was literally right around the corner from the condo complex account I have... Never heard back from him and wouldn't have come back for less. Would have taken about an hour to an hour and a half, stump included.



Half an hour? This tree has so many limbs it would take a half an hour for squirrel to run through it. Lol 

I think it has a squirrel's nest in it, that ought to be fun.


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## Carburetorless (Jan 31, 2012)

Huskytree said:


> That vidoe was tff. Looks like it was in Willamantic, if that kid had a bigger head I would swear it was you!
> 
> Carbie You aren't smart enough to keep your piehole shut when people that know way more then you ever thought about knowing try to help you. Then when they give you the chance to step away and keep some dignity, you fuel the fire. You are absolutely brilliant.



That's what mom used to always say, except she always called it a cake eater.


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## tree md (Jan 31, 2012)

Carburetorless said:


> Half an hour? This tree has so many limbs it would take a half an hour for squirrel to run through it. Lol
> 
> I think it has a squirrel's nest in it, that ought to be fun.



Well the trees around here are short compared to national standards and a 35 footer still is not usually #### here. If it's a brushy pine or something I could see where you are coming from but when you say 35' most folks are thinking of a landscraper tree.

The one I mentioned earlier for $250 was a brushy Bradford Pear. Would have had to climb it as it was between two houses, in a line and over a Jap Maple. Those were the mitigating factors that made me charge a little over my hourly rate.

Without pics it's hard to tell but who has time for that ####. The potential customer told you what she was willing to pay and you declined on the grounds that you could not feed you, your two groundys and your chipper bologna for that price. Get used to it, Get over it, move on to the next tree. Don't be like some of the guys you hear around here who are mad at the world because leaner crews are outselling them and their equipment and making money. That is of no benefit to you.


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## Carburetorless (Jan 31, 2012)

tree md said:


> Well the trees around here are short compared to national standards and a 35 footer still is not usually #### here. If it's a brushy pine or something I could see where you are coming from but when you say 35' most folks are thinking of a landscraper tree.



I don't think this one was planted by a landscraper, unless it was many years ago. It's definitely brushy though. 

That tree on your homepage looks pretty short BTW.


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## tree md (Jan 31, 2012)

Well if you're talking about the big Red Oak, it was a champion tree that had died in our historical midtown district here. It was 6' DBH and around 110' tall. I've got it down to around 65' in that pic and it's around 4' DBH at that point. I've got a 20' lanyard around it there. Unusually large for around here. If you are talking about the smaller ones to the right side, those are about average for around here. I came up doing monster removals in Atlanta in the early to mid 90's. I rode around for two years doing nothing but crane removals with a couple of large services I apprenticed with. I cut my teeth on large trees. That's why I am king of my own jungle here. The smaller trees here are elementary to me.


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## ROPECLIMBER (Feb 1, 2012)

In the OP you said they were having bulk pick up, Tree MD and others have suggested to set yourself out from the rest by skill,knowledge,and expertise, most of the time if the HO's first statemate is we are having brush pick up, I know what to expect, and I will explain that as signed by me upon reciving my Tree Maintenece License , I am required to clean up,haul off and leagaly dispose of all incured debris, and usually with limited space it is faster to chip than to try to fit it safely on the curb, also the high end jobs have HOA's that require clean up daily so I usually don't get these, brush stack jobs, nore wish to sell the street they are on,
Paul


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## Carburetorless (Feb 2, 2012)

ROPECLIMBER said:


> In the OP you said they were having bulk pick up, Tree MD and others have suggested to set yourself out from the rest by skill,knowledge,and expertise, most of the time if the HO's first statemate is we are having brush pick up, I know what to expect, and I will explain that as signed by me upon reciving my Tree Maintenece License , I am required to clean up,haul off and leagaly dispose of all incured debris, and usually with limited space it is faster to chip than to try to fit it safely on the curb, also the high end jobs have HOA's that require clean up daily so I usually don't get these, brush stack jobs, nore wish to sell the street they are on,
> Paul



You should look into getting a spell checker bro, yer rhiten iss howd tu wreed.


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## treeclimber101 (Feb 2, 2012)

Carburetorless said:


> You should look into getting a spell checker bro, yer rhiten iss howd tu wreed.


Well he sure ain't smarter than a fifth grader fo sure , but even if his spell checker did work I still would have me sum truble untersanding wut the helll he sayin ....:eek2:


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## Greener (Feb 3, 2012)

I had the same thing with a customer on a fir job. Only he said he found these guys to cut it and take the brush for free, just for the wood. Sometimes they are BSing you just to get you to come down a bit. But Huskytree is right. You got to either negotiate a bit or walk away and accept it. Take comfort in the fact that those homeowners who are always looking to go as cheap as possible will eventually get what they pay for (accident, unfinished job, etc).


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## arborjockey (Feb 3, 2012)

Tell me you cant do 10 of those trees in 1 day. Now what does your bid look like. I may steal your saying of " a squirrel couldnt run through the tree that fast " might use that on my salesman:msp_sleep: sell the job not the price.


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## fishercat (Feb 4, 2012)

*well well well,*

that was an interesting read.


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## Carburetorless (Feb 5, 2012)

arborjockey said:


> Tell me you cant do 10 of those trees in 1 day. Now what does your bid look like. I may steal your saying of " a squirrel couldnt run through the tree that fast " might use that on my salesman:msp_sleep: sell the job not the price.



If I had 10 of those trees on the same job I might do 10 of them in a day, but doing one or two here, then moving everything way over there to do another one or two, then moving way up yonder to do more would eat up more time than there is in a day.


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## hunthawkdog (Feb 9, 2012)

hate is a strong word im sorry you feel that way about me. ha ha 

I had about the same deal awhile back lady kept bugin me and callin me I was at 350 for a 28 plus 40'
had to be climbed so told me this guy that guy they all said this or that one day she said look i realy need it down (and she realy did ) but cant aford to one day on my way by I cut it heck it only took me and dad about 40 min then he jaw jacked for about 1/2 hour I think she gave us $ 175 not bad for a little work but i didnt pay the old man i didnt want to promote that kind of behavior

p.s. the train went buywhile i was on the tree not very far away made that little ol pole wobble abit


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## Carburetorless (Feb 10, 2012)

*It's done*

I finally got around to taking this tree down to the ground.

Put a rope right in the very top, tied in and limbed it on the way up, crawled up into the basket that was my tip, topped out the two large branches that were there from the previous topping, dropped down a bit and took the top chunk off, rappelled down, loaded the brush up and moved, then dropped the pole, but it up and loaded it on the trailer.

It was amazing how much it opened the yard up.

This thing was actually right at 60' x 22" DBH , it had been trimmed back and topped out several times over the years.

Believe it or not this thing was actually a Christmas tree at one time. Now it's next years :msp_biggrin:fire wood.


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## djb6582 (Feb 10, 2012)

I got lowballed bad this week bid a job to raise the canopy on a white oak two leads over the roof two leads over an above ground pool and one over the shed it all would of needed to be roped. She also had a pine that someone once butchered and a sick lead over a neighbor’s roof, and one over the neighbor’s pool. I priced it fair enough to pay my overhead and a little to line the pocked after the taxman got his cut. I was called by a neighbor/ person I’ve worked for in the past. He said a guy came and did it for less than I could even pull out of the drive. He talked to the guy and he said he hadn’t had a job since Dec and needed cash.... I guess he needed more than me and that’s fine but uggg.....:bang:


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## Carburetorless (Feb 10, 2012)

djb6582 said:


> I got lowballed bad this week bid a job to raise the canopy on a white oak two leads over the roof two leads over an above ground pool and one over the shed it all would of needed to be roped. She also had a pine that someone once butchered and a sick lead over a neighbor’s roof, and one over the neighbor’s pool. I priced it fair enough to pay my overhead and a little to line the pocked after the taxman got his cut. I was called by a neighbor/ person I’ve worked for in the past. He said a guy came and did it for less than I could even pull out of the drive. He talked to the guy and he said he hadn’t had a job since Dec and needed cash.... I guess he needed more than me and that’s fine but uggg.....:bang:



I don't mind so much getting lowballed on a simple job, but on something like that where you have to know what you're doing, and take the extra time to do it right. 

It makes you wonder if the guy actually needed the work or if his story was just a lowball tactic.


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