# Felling 2 trees



## RRSsawshop (Aug 30, 2009)

Need some advice on felling 2 trees that are very close together at the stumps and almost limb locked in the canopy!!! 
Tree #1 is an ash 18" on the stump no real problem with this tree alone.
Tree #2 is a cherry 28" to 30" on the stump,leans into ash,fence wire and an insulator plus barb wire in it also!!!

My logic tells me to notch the ash first,then use the cherry to push it.
But with all the garbage in the cherry I have to cut stump at about 3' or more to stay out of it. Will this still work or will it kick back?? :monkey:


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## fonzie (Aug 30, 2009)

I would do exactly as you said front the ash knick the back load it with a wedge and fall/drive with the cherry as per normal, as for the rubbish I would utilise an old chain as Im sure if your anything like me you would have one laying around that wouldnt matter if it was wrecked!! this I guess would allow you to fall the cherry at a normal comfortable hieght,has worked for me in the past.


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## Billy_Bob (Aug 31, 2009)

Pictures please...

Also pictures about 100 foot back for different views of the trees. Like from the north, then 90 degree different view from the east (or whatever).


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## RRSsawshop (Aug 31, 2009)

Got them on the ground today!!! Wasn't pretty but hey its done,cut a high stump on the cherry (no way was I going to cut thru that much metal with a chain it would have broke it)and pushed the ash over.
What I was worried about was the cherry kicking back because of the high stump,it did but not as bad as I thought,still I hauled a:censored:s out of there once I got her moving!!!!
Sorry guys no pics I'm still "old school" in the photography department!!!


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## clearance (Aug 31, 2009)

Trees do not kick back because of high cuts. They come back sometimes when they hit other trees. Humbolt with a stepped backcut works best.


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## fonzie (Aug 31, 2009)

Yeah you do have to be careful with fence wire etc small amounts are all I have had to deal (after significant time spent on wire cutters) with and havent had to many dramas but you got em down without hassle good job.Did you load the ash with a wedge??


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## RRSsawshop (Aug 31, 2009)

clearance said:


> Trees do not kick back because of high cuts. They come back sometimes when they hit other trees. Humbolt with a stepped backcut works best.



I used a humbolt and cut the back cut higher than my normal cut.It was limb locked before it hit the ash to push it.YES I had the ash wedged tight!!when they both went over the cherry road up on the ash for a second then kicked back about 6' behind the stump,I knew it was going to before I even started to make any cuts.Just one of thous trees you walk up to and look at and know its not going to be pretty!!!! :jawdrop:


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## clearance (Aug 31, 2009)

Hmmm, anyways, you got them down safe, and used a Humbolt. Good for you.


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## parttime (Sep 1, 2009)

clearance said:


> Trees do not kick back because of high cuts. They come back sometimes when they hit other trees. Humbolt with a stepped backcut works best.



Hey what is "humbolt" thanks.


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## Billy_Bob (Sep 2, 2009)

parttime said:


> Hey what is "humbolt" thanks.



The idea of this cut is to be able to use all of the wood from the log which falls to the ground (when cut up at a mill). The notch is cut into the stump rather than into the log.


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## parttime (Sep 2, 2009)

thanks billy bob, I try to learn something new everyday. Hunmbolt is it for today.


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## A. Stanton (Sep 2, 2009)

Be careful, you don't want to end up lookin like this.


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## RRSsawshop (Sep 2, 2009)

A. Stanton said:


> Be careful, you don't want to end up lookin like this.



OH,I've done that more than once!!!!!!!Grab the Dozer and hook the winch cable to them and pull them down!!!:chainsawguy:


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## Billy_Bob (Sep 5, 2009)

parttime said:


> thanks billy bob, I try to learn something new everyday. Hunmbolt is it for today.



Here is a bunch more stuff for learning...

Common chainsaw injury locations on body - diagram.
(1/2 way down page)...
http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/logging/manual/logger/personal_equip/personal_equip.html

Stihl DVD: "Chain Saw Safety, Operation & Maintenance"...
http://stihldealer.net/videolibrary/

"Oregon Maintenance and Safety Manual" on-line book...
http://www.oregonchain.com/tech/manual_maint.htm

OSHA Logging eTool...
(Manual logging or mechanical logging)
http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/logging/mainpage.html

Book: "Professional Timber Falling" By Douglas Dent
http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=17309&catID=47

National Timber Harvesting and Transportation Safety Foundation
Logging Safety Web Site...
http://www.loggingsafety.com

Stihl - Guide to Saw Chain Maintenance...
http://www.stihllibrary.com/pdf/SharpAdvice061301final.pdf


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## parttime (Sep 5, 2009)

thanks again Billy Bob, I've plenty to read now.


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## tramp bushler (Sep 6, 2009)

Billy_Bob said:


> The idea of this cut is to be able to use all of the wood from the log which falls to the ground (when cut up at a mill). The notch is cut into the stump rather than into the log.


...

. Billy Bob , you got a full face dutchman in that diagram . ., . 

. I don,t have many pics uploaded to P bucket of cutting yet . I,ll troll up an old one .. Maybe someone else has a good stump picture they could post ..


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## tramp bushler (Sep 6, 2009)

I hadn,t seen your next posts . I need a faster connection for the streaming vids


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## 056 kid (Sep 6, 2009)

I think thats sposed to be holdong wood


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## tramp bushler (Sep 6, 2009)

Maybe it,s spossed to be , but look close , it,s a dutchman . .. I,m not saying Commander Bob did the diagram , but who ever did needs to be a bit more careful with their cuts , .... The reason I brought it up is lots of guys have got killed or crippled for life because they didn,t pay close attention to the details on the stump ,an d the particular tree that got them needed the details done right .... 
.
. Not gettin after anyone . Just don,t want any of the silent majority to think full face dutchmen are the right thing to do ......


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## parttime (Sep 7, 2009)

Tramp Bushler, this is a Dutchman because the back cut is to high?


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## Billy_Bob (Sep 7, 2009)

Well here is another picture for discussion...







Here is the web page the above is from...
http://www.coloradofirecamp.com/s-212-chainsaws/glossary_D-F.htm


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## 056 kid (Sep 7, 2009)

tramp bushler said:


> Maybe it,s spossed to be , but look close , it,s a dutchman . .. I,m not saying Commander Bob did the diagram , but who ever did needs to be a bit more careful with their cuts , .... The reason I brought it up is lots of guys have got killed or crippled for life because they didn,t pay close attention to the details on the stump ,an d the particular tree that got them needed the details done right ....
> .
> . Not gettin after anyone . Just don,t want any of the silent majority to think full face dutchmen are the right thing to do ......



They are good for sliding the butt onto the deck fast arenth they?


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## tramp bushler (Sep 7, 2009)

Here is a dutchman I put in on purpose to help swing this tree into the lay I needed it to go into .



.
.
It had leaned hard over the line and I didn,t want to spend 15 minutes pounding wedges . I also put in a Siswheel Swing cut on the up hill side of the face that helps keep the tree hooked to the stump longer , which helps also pull the tree into your intended lay ... Yellow Cedar are kind of brittle and will break their holding wood sometimes without accomplishing alot ....I also tapped in 1 wedge on the lower half of the backcut to get it to go into the dutchman


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## tramp bushler (Sep 7, 2009)

*Wrong picture*

But you can see where I wedged from , just to help it not lean backwards but to fall into the dutchman ....See if I can get the right pic..


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## tramp bushler (Sep 7, 2009)

*Dutchmen*

If you look at the top pic you can see a gap between the holding wood on the left side of the stump and where the tree is in the face ( Humbolt under cut ) that gap /distance is the length of the kerf dutchman on that side of the stump .. Most of the time the goal is to keep the tree hooked to the uphill side of the stump untill the tree is fully in the face side to side and the face is closed as you can see this funky cedar is ............ It,s not easy keeping an old cedar on the stump this long .....Without the Siswheel , I would have lost it into the standing timber .....


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## Greystoke (Sep 7, 2009)

056 kid said:


> They are good for sliding the butt onto the deck fast arenth they?



I think you might be thinking of a "snipe" or "kicker"? Here is the best pic I have of one:






A snipe will help to get the butt of the tree on the ground in shorter order than not having one at all, and is a good technique to have in your repertoire.


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## parttime (Sep 7, 2009)

Wow, great pictures. I would take some of my buddy's logging operation, but you guys my die laughing. lol The bark on the tree's your cutting is thicker than some of our trees in in soutern wv. lol. I'll still get some pics. if you promise not to laugh.
Harvey


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## RRSsawshop (Sep 7, 2009)

Billy_Bob said:


> Well here is another picture for discussion...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well I thought the dutchman was for the humbolt only!!! Thanks for posting this I just learned some more from this thread!!!


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## 056 kid (Sep 7, 2009)

What are the differences in how wide the kerf is and how deep the face or snipe is?

I would think a big kerf or box cut with a small snipe would kind of chuck the tree off and away of the stump.

Whereas a narrow kerf and a deep steep face would get the butt to slip right off the stump and hit the deck.

Am I close on that?

I have used dutchmans with a big face and small a narrow kerf leaving 2 or 3 inches of shelf shelf on trees that will be coming in contact with standing timber so they can roll and do as they wish.

I Cut a big red oak up hill and used a box cut with a snipe on top and bottom to try and keep it from going down hill.

I wish I could experiment more but these small east coast trees are too small..

I am also curious about a siswheel, I have seen one example. im guessing it allows the holding wood to flex and not break as soon while the tree goes down. mabe?


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## Greystoke (Sep 7, 2009)

056 kid said:


> What are the differences in how wide the kerf is and how deep the face or snipe is?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## 056 kid (Sep 7, 2009)

For the red oak yes,

It wasent a very steep grade but figured that I would try and use my head to see if I could get my two snipes to meet and hold.

My little illustration is as close as I can get.


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## Greystoke (Sep 7, 2009)

056 kid said:


> For the red oak yes,
> 
> It wasent a very steep grade but figured that I would try and use my head to see if I could get my two snipes to meet and hold.
> 
> My little illustration is as close as I can get.



Looks like you have got the right Idea.  When I was falling timber in the redwoods, If I was falling a tree up the hill using a square humboldt(usually only used square humboldt on redwoods cuz they are so dang brittle, esp. on the stump, so you need to get as much out of the holding wood as possible) a lot of times you would want it to stay on the stump to get a little more lift(usually you want a redwood butt on the ground)to get over a hump and try to save it out a little better, so you would use a scarf on the top(your picture minus the snipe on the stump, at least that is how I always knew it...snipe on bottom, scarf on top)and generally it would hug the stump fairly good, better for others than myself cuz I was a greenhorn redwood faller! Wish I had pictures of a tree that a co-worker and the bullbuck fell up the hill...not only did it lift the butt over a hump up the hill it hooked on the very corner of the stump and stuck there...needless to say, the ground was about 75-80%, and the bull buck gets on the downhill side to buck the far wood of the butt-cut:jawdrop:the whole dang tree was hanging by that one little corner! That guy had some big cajones! He was also one of the best fallers that I have ever know, so he knew what he could get away with.


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## 056 kid (Sep 7, 2009)

I bet it was somthing falling timber in the redwood forests.
You have _lots_ of great knowledge I wish I could soak up.

What are the odds of snagging a job like that these days?


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## Greystoke (Sep 7, 2009)

056 kid said:


> I bet it was somthing falling timber in the redwood forests.
> You have _lots_ of great knowledge I wish I could soak up.
> 
> What are the odds of snagging a job like that these days?



It was awesome to get in on a little redwood action, which I think now is getting fairly well locked up, so probably fairly tough to get a job there?Thanks for your compliments but I wish that some of the fallers that I looked up to would get on this site...they are the ones that I learned from and have a lot more knowledge than myself to soak up.


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## tramp bushler (Sep 8, 2009)

Cody does a good job of describing and has Lots better pics than me ........ ..
. .
. The only garrenteed way I know of to get a tree to go flying off the stump , is with a round length of steel so the tree actually rolls off the stump.. Handloggers used to use them to get them to fly out off a bluff ... Problem was with keeping the thing once the tree left the stump ... And who was going to pack it up the mountain ........ 
.
. I don,t know what a box cut is , But sometimes when I,m cutting up the side of a draw and want to keep my timber in lead with the draw , but relativly level , I will double gun the Humbolt .... It helps with limb drift ...
.1 Put in your Humbolt face gunned to the lay you want , 
2 half way down the humbolt , bore all the way across with the power head level bar verticle . this verticle cut I gun higher on the side or the draw . I cut down enough so the tree can close on this second face and saw the 2nd face out ..... Some guys call this a kicker face ..........As it helps to kick the top up the hill ..... I just call it double gunning ..... 

.
. I use a Siswheel on anything soft , funky , or brittle .... Frozen timber ,,. Cotton wood , Silver Poplar , Red Alder , Rotten, and healthy Cedar , both Red and Yellow ....Rotten Hemlocks ... Mountain Hemlock . All can be swung further with a Siswheel ... But you NEED TO BE ABLE TO GET YOU AND YOUR SAW AWAY FROM THE STUMP WHEN USING ONE ....... THEY PULL ROOTS AND SOMETIMES A GOOD PART OF THE STUMP .........
.
. One last thing , You can really create some big problems for your self with a full face dutchman , so you really want to make sure you have a good face in the tree or stump ... Take a little extra time to actually bend down and look, and if it isn,t right , make it so before you start on the back cut ...... It,s faster in the long run ..


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## Billy_Bob (Sep 8, 2009)

Another term is "swing dutchman". 

Here is a bit on that...
http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/log...special_techniques/unacceptablepractices.html


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## 056 kid (Sep 8, 2009)

great text here! Right on the $ for what I want to learn.

I learned the term "box cut" here on AS, 

Here is where I first herd and saw of a siswheel...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFiytdsdXfw&feature=channel_page


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## tramp bushler (Sep 8, 2009)

He did get that tree across the road ... , He could have walked it around real well ....
. . I would have fell it quite a bit differently . For some reason he used a Saginaw face ???????????? he didn,t have any dutchman on the low side and he had holding wood on the low side of the stump .....
. Most of the time when you are swinging timber , ya don,t just ( Ho Close and Go ) .
. You walk the tree around into the face then get out of the way ...... Step dutchmen work well for leading a tree around by the nose .. He also didn,t leave much holding wood on the up hill side ....... But , he,s doin ok . just needs some more learnin , Which we all do !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks for postin the links ..... I like to bullbuck these guys !!!!!:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


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## 056 kid (Sep 8, 2009)

I noticed that he had alot of wood on the low side.

Saginaw face eh? whats that? i dont know if he was trying to swing that tree or not, what caught mu attension was the s---wheel...


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## Greystoke (Sep 8, 2009)

056 kid said:


> I noticed that he had alot of wood on the low side.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Greystoke (Sep 8, 2009)

One important thing to always remember about a sezwheel is that it will pull more wood down into the stump and sometimes will pull a root up out of the ground, so you have to be careful. Another thing that I have learned is there is no set limit as to how low you cut it...that is, towards the ground...you can go all the way to dirt if you have to, and it is important to follow the grain of your holding wood...if the holding wood curves, your sezwheel cut needs to curve with it, otherwise, if you cut straight down and sever the holding wood across the grain it will not hold as good. Just try to think of your holding wood as you would a steak, cut it with the grain and it is tough, opposite across the grain. I hope this all makes sense, as I don't want to confuse anyone


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## 056 kid (Sep 8, 2009)

yes I have learned to make sure I have good straight grains to hold good.

Lots of red oaks, and others here flair up at the butt and alot of the outside wood isent much good for holding wood. When I started cutting alot of swing cuts and trying to teach myself where to cut to get maximum movement, a percentage of trees would go off the stump prematurely due to not enough strong wood(inside the tree) to guide the tree until it committed completely. 

I can think of several big chestnut oaks I cut that a sezwheel would have really helped keep the tree on the stump longer. but the east coast style of cutting with 20 inch bars and all really dosent focus on fancy techniques and good leads, but flopping the timber down and getting it behind a skidder as quick as possible.

I have noticed having at least 1 inch of kirf in the face, as apposed to having the 2 face cuts meet up to a point helps holding wood flex as opposed to breaking, which I guess would make it a dutchman. I am not too good at getting what I mean into words and have had a harder time with correct terminology since Mr. 2dogs let me have it for trying to explain some techniques. 



What would constitute how deep the wheel would need to be?


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## Greystoke (Sep 8, 2009)

056 kid said:


> yes I have learned to make sure I have good straight grains to hold good.
> 
> Lots of red oaks, and others here flair up at the butt and alot of the outside wood isent much good for holding wood. When I started cutting alot of swing cuts and trying to teach myself where to cut to get maximum movement, a percentage of trees would go off the stump prematurely due to not enough strong wood(inside the tree) to guide the tree until it committed completely.
> 
> ...


I have a hard time explaining my methods on this computer too, so I will limit my response, but, I USUALLY go about half the diameter of the tree, BUT imho it all depends on the tree, and about a hundred other variables that time and experience can help to determine.


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## 056 kid (Sep 8, 2009)

I was refering to how deep as in how close to the ground cause you made a reference to how deep to make it when talking about going with the grain. I think you where talking how far across the stump in responce to my question..?

Good stuff none the less. Real time experience taught me everything I know, reading off the net just isent the real thing....


Dont let me bother you with all these ?'s. .


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## Greystoke (Sep 8, 2009)

056 kid said:


> > I was refering to how deep as in how close to the ground cause you made a reference to how deep to make it when talking about going with the grain. I think you where talking how far across the stump in responce to my question..?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## 056 kid (Sep 8, 2009)

I cant tell you how much I would have loved to grow up in that world.

I still want to get out there and tip the big ones, just havent figured out how to get there yet.


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## RRSsawshop (Sep 9, 2009)

056 kid said:


> I was refering to how deep as in how close to the ground cause you made a reference to how deep to make it when talking about going with the grain. I think you where talking how far across the stump in responce to my question..?
> 
> Good stuff none the less. Real time experience taught me everything I know, reading off the net just isent the real thing....
> 
> ...





tarzanstree said:


> 056 kid said:
> 
> 
> > Okay...I got you! Again I, myself would determine how close to the ground to make my cuts depending on the tree and the 100 other variables that I talked about earlier.
> ...


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## hammerlogging (Sep 9, 2009)

Awesome. Will review later. 6 hrs till wakeup. Awesome.


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## 056 kid (Sep 9, 2009)

I aint the one with the goods, Mr Tramp and tarzan are the boys to link up with for the good info...


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## tramp bushler (Sep 10, 2009)

Possibly the translation , but , having a dutchman all the way across the stump , will breal the holding wood faster .... Often on a smaller tree I will just make another kerf on my high side holding wood side of the stump , sortof a minii sizwheel . It just lets the holding wood flex a little more ................ I did think the guy in the vid , tho he had a pretty load , and not legal hat , and no spenders ?????????????? .. Had some techniques , but he just flopped that tree out there without letting the sizwheel do its thing pulling the tree around ................Most of the time , I,m not a cut and run faller , but I stay at the stump ,unless I know I gots to run ... Yes ,people may get tired of us saying so , but they need to remember the sizwheel will pull roots and sometimes part of the stump , sometimes with little warning , so you need ,,NEED to be on your way away from the stump before that happens .. It,s a fine ballancing act !!!! When to take your time , and when to cut and run !!! Reminds me of a song !!!!!........ We won,t get into the ( had bigger houses or lead fuller lives ....


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## RRSsawshop (Sep 10, 2009)

056 kid said:


> I aint the one with the goods, Mr Tramp and tarzan are the boys to link up with for the good info...



Now dont cut yourself short,your asking GOOD questions and learning buy doing same as me!!!!!


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## lostcoastland (Sep 10, 2009)

tarzanstree said:


> I USUALLY go about half the diameter of the tree, BUT imho it all depends on the tree, and about a hundred other variables that time and experience can help to determine.



Right..you want to watch the tree and react to it. if you try to make it halfway through without checking your bound to pinch your bar..i usualy try to see it move a little in the right direction...the best solution if your in a squeeze it to use a dang throw rope and go out and attatch a come along...then theres a better chance not to screw up


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## Greystoke (Sep 11, 2009)

*Sezwheel Pics*

Had to fall this old rotten cottonwood the other day and thought I would cut a sezwheel in it, as I was thinking of this thread. Took these with my phone, so the quality is not the best This Is one method that I use, and sometimes I cut it more like the one that hotsaws101 had in his video, although I usually don't use a saginaw, a lot of the time I will put a snipe as a kicker whichever direction I want...anyhow, this tree was rotten so It did not pull the holding wood all the way down to the bottom of my sezwheel, but you can see kind of how it works.

Using my 088 with 54" bar and 404 full skip square chisel chain:

<a href="http://s627.photobucket.com/albums/tt356/papacodes/Tarzans%20Tree%20Service/?action=view&current=09091030.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt356/papacodes/Tarzans%20Tree%20Service/09091030.jpg" border="0" alt="cutting a sezwheel"></a>

In this pic you can see where I started boreing my cut, and as I went down I try to angle it to the right a little to utilize more of that big root that is just to the left of my bar...trying to go with the grain, although this was a little extreme:

<a href="http://s627.photobucket.com/albums/tt356/papacodes/Tarzans%20Tree%20Service/?action=view&current=09091031.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt356/papacodes/Tarzans%20Tree%20Service/09091031.jpg" border="0" alt="My 088 stihl"></a>

This is after it was cut out, and usually this is the part where I will cut a snipe on it to get a little more directional control(put it more where I want it):

<a href="http://s627.photobucket.com/albums/tt356/papacodes/Tarzans%20Tree%20Service/?action=view&current=09091036.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt356/papacodes/Tarzans%20Tree%20Service/09091036.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

front view:

<a href="http://s627.photobucket.com/albums/tt356/papacodes/Tarzans%20Tree%20Service/?action=view&current=09091035a.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt356/papacodes/Tarzans%20Tree%20Service/09091035a.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Now you can see how far down it took the holding wood. If this tree had been sound where the holding wood was it would have taken it all the way to the bottom where my sezwheel cuts match up, but...demonstration purposes only:

<a href="http://s627.photobucket.com/albums/tt356/papacodes/Tarzans%20Tree%20Service/?action=view&current=09091113.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt356/papacodes/Tarzans%20Tree%20Service/09091113.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

This was always my basic version of an ugly stump; Notice how the backcut on the far side is slightly(ever so slightly)lower than the undercut, and on the near side it was a few inches higher? Again...I do this to utilize more of the grain of the wood, as to not go cross grain...some may call me crazy, but it works for me and was shown to me by an old mossback faller that had been falling timber for 40 years; and I do have lots of variables when I use it...again, for demonstration purposes only:

<a href="http://s627.photobucket.com/albums/tt356/papacodes/Tarzans%20Tree%20Service/?action=view&current=09091112a.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt356/papacodes/Tarzans%20Tree%20Service/09091112a.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

My powersaw...54 barely reached through:

<a href="http://s627.photobucket.com/albums/tt356/papacodes/Tarzans%20Tree%20Service/?action=view&current=09091112.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt356/papacodes/Tarzans%20Tree%20Service/09091112.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>


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## Greystoke (Sep 11, 2009)

*Free firewood!!!! Any takers?*

You load, and You haul:monkey: Heck of a deal!

<a href="http://s627.photobucket.com/albums/tt356/papacodes/Tarzans%20Tree%20Service/?action=view&current=09091355a.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt356/papacodes/Tarzans%20Tree%20Service/09091355a.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>


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## RRSsawshop (Sep 12, 2009)

tarzanstree said:


> You load, and You haul:monkey: Heck of a deal!
> 
> <a href="http://s627.photobucket.com/albums/tt356/papacodes/Tarzans%20Tree%20Service/?action=view&current=09091355a.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt356/papacodes/Tarzans%20Tree%20Service/09091355a.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>



Great pics Tarzanstree!!! Dont worry I wont try that one just yet or at least on anything that big!! I'm just trying to learn how to swing them around alittle bit to unlock a limb ect.


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## 056 kid (Sep 13, 2009)

I see!!
very good of you to post up such great pics.
Now I need to go out and give *that* a go.

That is quite different from Hotsaws101's demo, I took a step or two back after seeing yours, made me think. It gets the point across but its not like being there. With no job to go to and try it I am stuck with my imagination. Guess I am going to have to go and practic on some govt snags,

_*JUST KIDDING........*_


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## Greystoke (Sep 14, 2009)

Just be careful! Remember this is all just for reference and you can never replace hands on learning from an "old pro", also just putting your time in on the stump(most large reputable timber companies require at least 5 years of timber falling experience) These methods that have been getting talked about (sezwheels, dutchmans, kickers, scarfs, etc) are all advanced techniques and I never quite fully understood them(I still don't fully understand them, but can make them work more to my advantage now) until I had a few years of steady timber falling experience under my belt, and felt comfortable that I had learned SOME of the main fundamentals and mechanics. I am still learning, and finding out that some of my methods are a little off, and how to tweak them to my advantage. I don't mean to sound condescending, and I am not downplaying anyones experience; I just want to make sure they know where I am coming from.


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## John Ellison (Sep 14, 2009)

Good post Tarzantree, I feel the same way. Its like most everything else, the more I learn falling timber, the more I realize how much more is possible.

Also as you said, a faller has to learn the basics before trying anything else. If you can't accurately judge the lean and you try to swing a tree things will go bad real fast. There are some places and some trees you would not want to experiment on, and only experience will show you that.


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## Gologit (Sep 14, 2009)

John Ellison said:


> Good post Tarzantree, I feel the same way. Its like most everything else, the more I learn falling timber, the more I realize how much more is possible.
> 
> Also as you said, a faller has to learn the basics before trying anything else. If you can't accurately judge the lean and you try to swing a tree things will go bad real fast. There are some places and some trees you would not want to experiment on, and only experience will show you that.



Well said.


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## Meadow Beaver (Sep 14, 2009)

tarzanstree said:


> You load, and You haul:monkey: Heck of a deal!
> 
> <a href="http://s627.photobucket.com/albums/tt356/papacodes/Tarzans%20Tree%20Service/?action=view&current=09091355a.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt356/papacodes/Tarzans%20Tree%20Service/09091355a.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>



Yep I'm on my way, only a 40hr drive one way.


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## Meadow Beaver (Sep 14, 2009)

tramp bushler said:


> He did get that tree across the road ... , He could have walked it around real well ....
> . . I would have fell it quite a bit differently . For some reason he used a Saginaw face ???????????? he didn,t have any dutchman on the low side and he had holding wood on the low side of the stump .....
> . Most of the time when you are swinging timber , ya don,t just ( Ho Close and Go ) .
> . You walk the tree around into the face then get out of the way ...... Step dutchmen work well for leading a tree around by the nose .. He also didn,t leave much holding wood on the up hill side ....... But , he,s doin ok . just needs some more learnin , Which we all do !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks for postin the links ..... I like to bullbuck these guys !!!!!:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:



Geez and I thought that guy did pretty good.


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