# Let's Save All The Trees.!



## MNGuns (Nov 27, 2009)

I'm not a forester or logger, but thought you guys might appreciate this story from the Minneapolis RedStar Tribune. Appears as if some hippies thought it would be a good idea to spike some trees. Didn't work out so well for them in the end.

http://www.startribune.com/local/76199432.html

BACKUS, Minn. - Investigators are trying to determine who drove six-inch nails into hundreds of red pine trees near Backus.

They think the vandals might have thought they were saving the trees from logging. But if that was their plan, it backfired.

The stand is thinned every ten to 15 years. About 100 of the 600 trees were slated to be cut down and sold this month. The money would have benefitted the community and school district.

But workers found pole barn nails pounded into more than 500 of the trees.

Now the entire forest must be cut down due to safety concerns. Mike Diekmann of the Cass County Sheriff's Office says that if a saw hit one of the nails, "it would explode like a gun going off" and could cause serious injury.

A reward of up to $5,000 is being offered.


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## joecool85 (Nov 27, 2009)

Am I missing something hear? How are the trees dangerous with the nails in them just standing there for fear of someone cutting them down, as compared to PURPOSELY cutting all of them down?

Also, I've hit nails before and haven't had any issues other than needing to sharpen my chain - no "gun going off" type of situation at all. Just lucky?


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## treemandan (Nov 27, 2009)

joecool85 said:


> Am I missing something hear? How are the trees dangerous with the nails in them just standing there for fear of someone cutting them down, as compared to PURPOSELY cutting all of them down?
> 
> Also, I've hit nails before and haven't had any issues other than needing to sharpen my chain - no "gun going off" type of situation at all. Just lucky?



I dunno about the first part but the second? Yeah, that is why I always have my hand locked on the top of the brake on bigger saws. Hit a nice hefty piece of steel and all bets are off. Who know would could happen given any certain instance but I have seen and had saw come flying out of the cut. Big steel can do it so can other things. To cut without your hand ready at all time to hit the brake is crazy and given the stuff that does happen when I have my hand on the brake i am pretty much resigned to keeping it there. Not as much as possible but everytime. 
I will start a backcut with my hand on the side to keep it level but that is just a little kerf, then I lock my hand like I am riding a bull. Oh Yeah.


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## NCTREE (Nov 27, 2009)

i worked in a log yard for a while and one of my jobs was boring out the metal in logs that got rejected from the metal detector. I hit some pretty nasty chit and yes the saw can do some funky stuff. Anyone with proper chainsaw safety should be able to fell those trees no problem. Hitting the metal is no more dangerous than the actual tree felling. 

I would be one pissed off logger if I got that job though.


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## hammerlogging (Nov 27, 2009)

its a bigger deal for the sawmill than the faller


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## Curlycherry1 (Nov 27, 2009)

hammerlogging said:


> its a bigger deal for the sawmill than the faller



Exactly. With the highspeed bandsaw mills the blades are moving at warp speed and the logs are moving really, really fast. The force of the log being moved through the blade is huge and any slowing of the blade due to a nail causes the blade to break. They often explode and cause major problems. A mill in MN I used to go to had pictures in their office of one of their blades that blew up and it was a mess. Stuff all over the barn was smashed and broken. There is a reason the guy operating the bandsaw is behind a steel cage and it is to protect him from blades going ka-pow.


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## deeker (Nov 27, 2009)

hammerlogging said:


> its a bigger deal for the sawmill than the faller



Amen, I reject almost all yard trees because of nails.


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## Taxmantoo (Nov 27, 2009)

They're probably cutting them all down and starting over because there's no point in growing a stand of spiked saw logs.


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## hammerlogging (Nov 27, 2009)

treemandan said:


> I dunno about the first part but the second? Yeah, that is why I always have my hand locked on the top of the brake on bigger saws. Hit a nice hefty piece of steel and all bets are off. Who know would could happen given any certain instance but I have seen and had saw come flying out of the cut. Big steel can do it so can other things. To cut without your hand ready at all time to hit the brake is crazy and given the stuff that does happen when I have my hand on the brake i am pretty much resigned to keeping it there. Not as much as possible but everytime.
> I will start a backcut with my hand on the side to keep it level but that is just a little kerf, then I lock my hand like I am riding a bull. Oh Yeah.



Damn dude chill out it aint that big of a deal. Cut the ####er down. Then the next and the next till the day is done hopefully you have several tractor trailers full do it again the next day. Oh.... you're a tree guy.

Cant help it, its like when I read on here about NEVER file without gloves on... like damn, didn't know filing was so damn dangerous.


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## Curlycherry1 (Nov 27, 2009)

Lots of the wood I cut was in fencerows and I ran into all manner of stuff and never had more than a major dull chain. I even hit a railroad spike once and it just flattened the teeth like barbedwire did. No major freak out safety reasons to worry about metal in a tree as far as a chainsaw is concerned. Sawmill bandsaw is a different issue.


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## joesawer (Nov 27, 2009)

The did not say chainsaw. What if a high speed carbide insert circle saw hit a pole barn nail? Those inserts can be compared to bullets or shrapnel. 
It doesn't really matter what kind of saw. What matters is that some one intentionally destroyed some one else property and endangered peoples lives.


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## slowp (Nov 28, 2009)

I learned to operate a metal detector out in the woods. The fallers had hit nails/spikes in their first trees in a new unit. The spikers had cut off the nail heads and driven the nails in so they couldn't be seen. The mill actually supplied metal detectors and I went around locating the nails and slapping dots of paint on the trees where the nails were. 

The spikers had driven 4 nails in at stump height and 4 nails up as high as they could reach. 1 nail in each face of the trees. 


The mill wanted those trees. They did not want the spikers to win. So the logger was told to pull all the spikes out--there were around 80 trees to do.

We suspected a guy who lived across the road and had all winter to do the dirty work. Nobody was ever arrested.


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## Jacob J. (Nov 28, 2009)

hammerlogging said:


> its a bigger deal for the sawmill than the faller





joesawer said:


> The did not say chainsaw. What if a high speed carbide insert circle saw hit a pole barn nail? Those inserts can be compared to bullets or shrapnel.
> It doesn't really matter what kind of saw. What matters is that some one intentionally destroyed some one else property and endangered peoples lives.



That's what they're talking about in regards to exploding saws, not chainsaws. No one outside of logging figures chainsaws and handfallers into the big picture when talking about a situation like this. 

My cousin runs a headrig in a major mill and yes, high-speed circular saw blades do explode if they hit something big enough. He's showed me pieces of metal embedded in the walls of the mill. He works from a shielded booth for a reason.


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## Curlycherry1 (Nov 28, 2009)

Jacob J. said:


> My cousin runs a headrig in a major mill and yes, high-speed circular saw blades do explode if they hit something big enough. He's showed me pieces of metal embedded in the walls of the mill. He works from a shielded booth for a reason.



The mill near me that had a blade explode put in two metal detectors. One scanned the whole log during debarking and then another more expensive one was put in by the blade and was capable of seeing into the log about 3". That one was there to catch stuff that was buried deep enough in the log that the first one did not catch. They were leaving nothing up to chance.

Scumbag spikers are now using ceramic nails which do not show up on the normal metal detectors.

The landowners should show the trees being cut and left to rot and show that all over the TV so the tree huggers see the trees they were working to protect rotting on the ground instead. Maybe if they saw their work actually causing worse harm to what they were trying to protect, they would rethink their actions. Mow the woods down and let the wood rot.

A local kagillionarre was building a 10000+ sq ft lake house near where I live and he had a "species room" which was full of head and other mounts of all the critters he had hunted throughout his life. Soon after he moved the mounts in the Sierra Club or someone else burned the house down in the middle of the night. The guy took it in stride and went on TV a few weeks later and said "life has been good to me and has afforded me the opportunity and the resouces to get to hunt all those animals and it has also afforded me the resources to be able to go out and replace every single one of them, and I am starting right away." It was a nice kick to the critter huggers that he was going to go out and whack a whole new set of animals and mount them all for his walls, and he was going to do it in about 6 months rather than 10+ years as it took before.


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## 2dogs (Nov 28, 2009)

Most of the spiked tree here just have large nails in them. The nasty spikes are concrete. Either way it is a deadly scenario for the sawmill.


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## clearance (Nov 28, 2009)

Spiking trees is no different than removing stop signs, it is a premeditated act witch shows depraved indifference to human life. Each act of spiking trees should be investigated with vigour. Those convicted should be dealt with harshly.:censored:


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## ROOTSXROCKS (Nov 28, 2009)

What are ceramic/ concrete nails used for? I have a hard time imagining them in use. would they not shatter upon impact? I googled them but found mostly women's fake fingernails.


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## Dalmatian90 (Nov 28, 2009)

> What are ceramic/ concrete nails used for?



Took me several tries before I found a Google search that had a good hit:

http://books.google.com/books?id=Gc...onepage&q=ceramic nails spiking trees&f=false

They're not "spikes" so much as drilling a hole and inserting a ceramic rod. 

Don't ask me what ceramic rods are used for  Many years ago I was a computer geek at a ceramics R&D lab, and I can't think of a use for solid ceramic rods other then possibly bearings in high-heat situations.

They've since shutdown the line, but that same center used to diamond coat cutting tools. A diamond film chain might cost $50,000 but I'd reckon it would do a fine job on felling the trees  Pretty amazing what the stuff could do, just not enough of a market for it.


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## Gologit (Nov 28, 2009)

clearance said:


> Spiking trees is no different than removing stop signs, it is a premeditated act witch shows depraved indifference to human life. Each act of spiking trees should be investigated with vigour. Those convicted should be dealt with harshly.:censored:



Yup.


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## treemandan (Nov 28, 2009)

clearance said:


> Spiking trees is no different than removing stop signs, it is a premeditated act witch shows depraved indifference to human life. Each act of spiking trees should be investigated with vigour. Those convicted should be dealt with harshly.:censored:



I guess I should put all them signs back then huh?


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## treemandan (Nov 28, 2009)

Well if you bust a chain while on a backcut its coming at your crotch most likely. I have seen a saw flying out of control upon contact with rebar within the tree. The operator was able to ditch it in a different direction than he was going.

I have an image in my head of Joni Mitchell hammering steel spikes in the trees.


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## Ivan H. (Dec 4, 2009)

Curlycherry1 said:


> Exactly. With the highspeed bandsaw mills the blades are moving at warp speed and the logs are moving really, really fast. The force of the log being moved through the blade is huge and any slowing of the blade due to a nail causes the blade to break. They often explode and cause major problems. A mill in MN I used to go to had pictures in their office of one of their blades that blew up and it was a mess. Stuff all over the barn was smashed and broken. There is a reason the guy operating the bandsaw is behind a steel cage and it is to protect him from blades going ka-pow.



I've seen what those railroad steaks can do to the saw blades. rips them up like a knife going through a tin can.


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## Steve NW WI (Dec 8, 2009)

Arrest Made!

Park Rapids Enterprise story

« Home



Backus man charged with red pine damage
Bethany Wesley, Bemidji Pioneer
Published: December 8, 2009 7:07:49 AM CST
A 51-year-old Backus man has been charged with first-degree criminal damage to property for driving 6-inch nails into about 500 red pine trees that were sold at auction.

Stephen Louis Olson was charged Monday in Cass County District Court with Criminal Damage to Property in the First Degree – Under Theory of Liability of Crimes of Another.

If convicted, Olson faces a maximum penalty of five years in jail and a $10,000 fine.

The Cass County Sheriff’s Office arrested Olson on Friday after executing a search warrant at his residence, according to a Cass County press release.

According to the criminal complaint:

A logger reported in mid-November that he had received a bid on a tree sale and was preparing to log the area when he noticed a handwritten sign nailed to a pine tree with two 6-inch long pole barn nails.

The sign claimed there were nails in each tree.

Investigation revealed more than 500 trees that had been spiked.

The spiking reduced the value of the trees by more than $1,000.

Investigators learned that Olson – who owns adjacent land – had expressed anger, frustration and resentment for the county’s plans to have the trees logged, according to the complaint. Olson told others that he intended to spike the tees with pole barn nails.

In an interview with investigators, another man said that he and Olson purchased six boxes of pole barn nails and spiked the trees in about one week with the help of a juvenile, according to the complaint.

Tags: Regional courts and crime, daily updates, region, minnesota, crime, vandalism

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No mention of it, other than the loss of value, which seems low, but more than $1,000 could mean $12,675 I guess, but I hope restitution is part of the penalty as well.

A radio station report said they did it to keep the trees there as they were adjacent to their land.


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## slowp (Dec 8, 2009)

Maybe they'll make him pull out the spikes too.


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## Mike PA (Dec 11, 2009)

joecool85 said:


> Am I missing something hear? How are the trees dangerous with the nails in them just standing there for fear of someone cutting them down, as compared to PURPOSELY cutting all of them down?



When those trees would be cut in the future, there may be no memory of the nails in the trees. Therefore, cut them now, while people know the nails are in them and can be dealt with.


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## joecool85 (Dec 11, 2009)

Mike PA said:


> When those trees would be cut in the future, there may be no memory of the nails in the trees. Therefore, cut them now, while people know the nails are in them and can be dealt with.



That makes a lot of sense.


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