# how do you run a crew.......?



## kf_tree (Oct 11, 2004)

how many guys? how many trucks? etc

i don't get this whole climbers dragging brush thing. just put the tree's on the ground and boogie.

we run 2 crew's each crew has a chip truck and a wood truck. the climber runs around in a pick up with a ground man/ rope man and 4-5 guys on clean up. there are some days where i'm just banging out small jobs and i never see the grouind crew. on bigger jobs we have all hands on deck. once the tree's are on the ground and the wood is cut up/ bang load the tools and get on to the next job. 

why have a climber chaseing a rake or load wood? i don't ask the truck driver to climb. 4-5 guys on the ground may seem like alot compared to most companies but it enables us to get in and get out quickly to get on to the next job. isn't that what it's all about?


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## a_lopa (Oct 11, 2004)

your telling the story bro,you have to bang out the jobs to pay everyone:angel:


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## kf_tree (Oct 11, 2004)

how do you figure? if you add 2 more guys to "your" average 3 man crew look at how much more work you could get done, they pay for themselves.


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## arboromega (Oct 11, 2004)

your the man kf. that was like the first company i worked for and big work got done quick with big crews. now 2-3 man crews and i often end up draggin and raking my own brush. ok sometimes, but somedays that tree just wears you out.


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## Nickrosis (Oct 11, 2004)

Sounds great, but let's see some numbers. You have 4 times as many people on your crew as I would prefer to have on a crew. That much more in pay, worker's comp, hiring, firing, parking, calling, etc. There is a critical mass to a crew size, and I'm a firm believer in smaller-is-better. 

I have a number of reasons for this, and I don't believe it works in all situations, but here's why it works for me. You have a crew that works together and gets to know the others on the crew quite well. Verbal and non-verbal communication is refined. The people on the crew begin to anticipate the other members' moves and a harmony develops.

In order to have a large crew, the pay must be dropped to be sustainable. I'm much more of a highly-paid, highly-skilled type of staff over the "huh-yuck, yuck-like, yer mom" kind of crew. You pay for it, but they pay for themselves.


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## kf_tree (Oct 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Nickrosis _
> *Sounds great, but let's see some numbers.
> 
> my crew averages 2800- 3200 a day. the other crew puts up higher #'s, better climber and different area/ not as cut throat with the priceing.
> ...


   


i'm not saying our way is best, it just seems that way to me. so do you guys work the way you do and are you happy with your current crew size?


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## xander9727 (Oct 11, 2004)

Buy a bobcat or a tractor with a loader and put a winch on the chipper. Fire two guys and the equipment will pay for itself in a year and last much longer. The highest cost of any company is payroll. If you can minimize that you'll make more on your bottom line.


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## kf_tree (Oct 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Mike Maas _
> *KF, what happens when you have a job that is climber intensive? You pay 5 guys to watch you climb? *




intensive for you maybe... 

yea there are days like that, tree work is all about the good with the bad. but if the boss is heads up to it and the other crew has a "bigger " day they'll take a guy or 2 for the day.


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## treeman82 (Oct 11, 2004)

Not that I know from experience, but I know plenty of people who do go down to the city to work on a regular basis. If a job down there requires 2 people, you need to bring 3. The third person's job is to pretty much just stay with the truck and make sure that saws, ropes, etc. don't find legs.


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## NeTree (Oct 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by treeman82 _
> *Not that I know from experience, but I know plenty of people who do go down to the city to work on a regular basis. If a job down there requires 2 people, you need to bring 3. The third person's job is to pretty much just stay with the truck and make sure that saws, ropes, etc. don't find legs. *



I've had jobs like that... most recently in Springfield next to the infamous "tent city".


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## Nickrosis (Oct 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by kf_tree _
> *
> i'm not saying our way is best, it just seems that way to me. so do you guys work the way you do and are you happy with your current crew size? *


I've been offered a lot of money to work in NY, compared to WI dollars. But I guess in NY, it's not very much. My aunt lives in Manhattan and pays six figures for her rent-controlled apartment.

So I won't use dollars to quantify pay, but I can use skill sets. I believe one's ground people should be well-qualified, preferably climbers. They have the best understanding and can rescue you in case of an accident.


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## Mike Barcaskey (Oct 12, 2004)

Myself (I climb), one other climber and a groundie when needed.
Yep, we drag brush and rake.
Depending upon the job, I take 20% for equipment and then split it with my other climber (regardless of what he does - climb, rake, chip)
groundies get $10 per hour

I like working with 3 total.
more than that and they're dogging it


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## a_lopa (Oct 12, 2004)

my 2 man crew has 40 years combined climbing exp, jobs look diffrent to us i could low ball you all day long and make plenty,your crew sounds vunerable,i can add pack mules $100 and own everything go figure.totally agree with mike barc,and own a rayco 1625 if anyone plays stump for free


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## DDM (Oct 12, 2004)

Me and my Wife Are our Normal Crew.We are however heavely Mechanized. I do have a High school student that works during the summer and on saturdays.This past saturday We removed a 48" DBH water oak Hanging over a bank and a Dead 40" DBH White oak that about 60% was leaning out over a 2 story house It was a 14 Hr day but all wood and debri was removed from the sites and all cleaned up. O i forgot to mention my 2 mexicans Pedro & Pepe Both Bobcats one a 763 the other a T190. They Load with the best of them.... and do not require Workmans Comp.


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## ORclimber (Oct 12, 2004)

I run a 2 man crew. Myself as the climber, Hulk Junior(AKA Robert) on the ground. We'll bring in extra climbers(other self employed little co') or groundies as needed(not often). 

Going for quality over quantity here.


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## stavenstumper (Oct 12, 2004)

KF,
Done any work for the Orange County Chopper guys? Sorry off topic but I had to ask...


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## SteveBullman (Oct 12, 2004)

personally i cant stand climbers who as too far up their own backsides they think they're too good to help out the groundies when they're down from the tree.


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## DDM (Oct 12, 2004)

> _Originally posted by RockyJSquirrel _
> *I've met Pedro and he's a workin' mofo. I guess Pepe` is a new hire. LMFAO!  *



Yes Heres PePe, Nations Rent Decided Renting a Track loader Was not to there best interest so they cut me a deal on Him.............


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## lync (Oct 12, 2004)

*3 man crews*

99% of our jobs are done by three man crews. Climber, climber/groundman, and groundman. As soon as all the wood is on the ground, climber stores tools and ropes, and helps with cleanup. Second climber either in a second tree or on the ground as the job dictates. Primary climber also CDL driver, 2 cycle mechanic, client relations specialist, and chief cook and bottle washer.

corey


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## BigJohn (Oct 12, 2004)

Mike what is climber intensive? How does that work if so intensive why isn't there any brush to drag. Why are they just watching. I just don't understand. I think I would have a coniption if I just saw guys standing around watching its not a show. You have some real problems on your hands if your guys are just watching. Are just climbing around looking for something. Maybe someone lost a wallet up there or fetching a kitty. Please explain.


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## BigJohn (Oct 13, 2004)

That makes sense. Thanks for clearing that up. Who can really sell a job like that though honestly. There has to be some really obvious dead wood up there to sell it. In that case make a mess anyway for them down there.


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## Scars2prove-it (Oct 14, 2004)

I have a climber and three groundmen on my crew. I tell the climber NOT to do ground work so he can save his energy for the next job. He usually does anyway since he doesn't like to sit around. Since I added the third groundman more jobs get finished and everybody is less beat at the end of the day. 

When I was the climber I only had two groundmen. My body has too many aches and pains now so I hired a third groundman to take my place for ground work.


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## MasterBlaster (Oct 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Scars2prove-it _
> *I tell the climber NOT to do ground work so he can save his energy for the next job. *



That makes for a can-do climber.


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## John Stewart (Oct 14, 2004)

So Scars why dont you listen to your self when you say save your self for the next Job!
Climbers have such egos!


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## MasterBlaster (Oct 14, 2004)

*Not Me!*


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## Scars2prove-it (Oct 16, 2004)

Butch, You really do have too much time on your hands.


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## City climber (Oct 19, 2004)

*large crews*

most of the work we do are removals about 90 % and all wood and brush must be taken out thru the house or thru an alley thiats why we need so many groundmen. it is definately not productive to have the climbers dragging brush . Once the tree hits the ground climber and 1 or 2 men are on the way to next job . besides I tell the ground crew I've handled all the wood and brush once already have no intention of handling it twice.Thats what works in our environment .We have 4-5 climbers here but me and Kf do most of the climbingbetween the 2 crews we have anywhere from 10 -15 guys 4-6 trucks just getting out of our yard is an adventure


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## Nickrosis (Oct 19, 2004)

*Re: large crews*



> _Originally posted by City climber _
> *We have 4-5 climbers here but me and Kf do most of the climbingbetween the 2 crews *


OK, so you do have climbers doing groundwork. I figured that would happen.

And I think that's OK....to think that anyone is "too important" to do something is ridiculous. To put people to their best use, that's important to do, and I believe in that strongly.


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## NeTree (Oct 19, 2004)

Whatever it takes to "Git'R'Done".


There's no such thing as an "unimportant" task.


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## kf_tree (Oct 19, 2004)

by the way Nickrosis


your aunt must have a pretty high end place.........
i to have a rent controled place in manhattan but our rent is only 580.00 a month.

i guess not too many tree men keep a manhattan apt.


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## Nickrosis (Oct 19, 2004)

It's a lot smaller than my house, that's for sure. But it's pretty nice. Top floor. They loan it out for commercial and movie shoots from time to time.


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## Jolestree (Feb 16, 2015)

I like 3 men on trim work and 5 men on large removals. Trims you have cutter/driver, rope/cleanup & clean up guy they all can ride in bucket/chip truck.
Removals we have 2 cutters/rope men, 1 loader operator, 2 draggers/chipper operator.


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## arboristCT (Feb 17, 2015)

I really dislike it too when a climber believes he is too much too help clean up. 
We had one of those in the company I work at and yes he got fired


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## mckeetree (Feb 17, 2015)

arboristCT said:


> I really dislike it too when a climber believes he is too much too help clean up.
> We had one of those in the company I work at and yes he got fired



If you are the real sh!t as far as a climber goes, and I know that, then I'm not asking you to ever drag brush...if you are not, and probably 85% of the present day climbers/bucket operators are not, then you may drag some brush around my little operation.


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## KenJax Tree (Feb 17, 2015)

I have no problems dragging brush or raking after everything is on the ground. Especially when i know my ground guys bust ass. They're always there on the rigging lines and keep the drop zone clear so i don't have to wait on them and i can get down as fast as possible, therefore i don't mind helping them get their part done faster and most of the time there isn't much left to do.


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## arboristCT (Feb 17, 2015)

mckeetree said:


> If you are the real sh!t as far as a climber goes, and I know that, then I'm not asking you to ever drag brush...if you are not, and probably 85% of the present day climbers/bucket operators are not, then you may drag some brush around my little operation.


but thats now how it works, well at a company I should say. If the climber is getting paid by the hour or salary like the rest of the employees then the climber should keep working in the ground if there is no more trees to climb.
To me a climber is the sh!t if he or she is good up on the tree and down on the ground.


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## mckeetree (Feb 17, 2015)

arboristCT said:


> but thats now how it works, well at a company I should say. If the climber is getting paid by the hour or salary like the rest of the employees then the climber should keep working in the ground if there is no more trees to climb.
> To me a climber is the sh!t if he or she is good up on the tree and down on the ground.



Well yeah...in a perfect world. But we don't live in a perfect world and most of the really good climbers little pad is soaked all the time...so I don't rock the boat.


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## arboristCT (Feb 17, 2015)

mckeetree said:


> Well yeah...in a perfect world. But we don't live in a perfect world and most of the really good climbers little pad is soaked all the time...so I don't rock the boat.


i don't understand what you mean sorry lol


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## mckeetree (Feb 17, 2015)

arboristCT said:


> i don't understand what you mean sorry lol



lol...you have never dealt with something that's little pad was soaked? Well bless your heart.


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## arboristCT (Feb 18, 2015)

mckeetree said:


> lol...you have never dealt with something that's little pad was soaked? Well bless your heart.


I probably have, except english is my second language so when it comes to "sayings" sometimes I don't get them.


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## bigremovals (Feb 18, 2015)

We had a mid 40s climber workin a couple months ago propably one of the fastest climbers ive seen so when he got down i didnt expect him to help but he got right to work draggin some of the rest of brush and grapped a rake i was just shocked he got a bump in his pay lol to bad he works for a bigger company regularly


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## BC WetCoast (Feb 18, 2015)

arboristCT said:


> I probably have, except english is my second language so when it comes to "sayings" sometimes I don't get them.



I'm not sure I get it either, although I think I have a fairly good guess. It must be a local saying, because I've never heard it before.


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## treebilly (Feb 18, 2015)

I'm a climber/ bucket man and have no problem helping out once I'm down. We had one "super" climber who worked as my secondary climber who thought he was above dragging brush. He lasted a week.


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## arboristCT (Feb 18, 2015)

BC WetCoast said:


> I'm not sure I get it either, although I think I have a fairly good guess. It must be a local saying, because I've never heard it before.


you'r probably right!


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## mckeetree (Feb 18, 2015)

arboristCT said:


> I probably have, except english is my second language so when it comes to "sayings" sometimes I don't get them.



What is your first language?


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## arboristCT (Feb 19, 2015)

mckeetree said:


> What is your first language?


Spanish im from Guatemala


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## treeman19 (Feb 19, 2015)

We have 3 groundsman (4 including my help) and 1 climber. If the climber isn't in a tree he better be chipping brush/running equipment or clocked out and on the way home. Can't pay someone climbers pay to rake debris and pull a tarp. Although if we get shrub trimming jobs our climber is the main guy to trim shrubs.


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## arborjockey (Feb 23, 2015)

I plan to have 10 kids and run em' like the mules on the borax box. Keep in mind I'm 37 and I have a 1- 7month old. Late start.
3-4 men with a miniskid or your going to pay for someone's back. 
A real back injury cost on average 100k. 5-6 guys carrying heavy loads over terrain equals bad news sooner or later. If your not Davey of Bartlett best to stick with mechanized equipment. It's never tired and ready to go.

I worked with huge crews in Hawaii and to me it was a wash. I spent 1/2 my time training or yelling " stop what are you doing?"


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## Jolestree (Mar 7, 2015)

arboristCT said:


> I really dislike it too when a climber believes he is too much too help clean up.
> We had one of those in the company I work at and yes he got fired


I own my company and when i climb i come down pick up my gear and put saws away that arnt being used, move trucks if needed hook up trailers, load equipment and if there is still cleanup i help with that. i had a climber that when he was done cutting would sit in his van, he was the first to go when things slowed down.


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## Aldegar (Mar 8, 2015)

Around here you can have a 4-5 man crew and average $2,500-$3,000 a day almost always going into overtime and paying out about $1,000 in operating cost a day between labor and equipment. You also have to feed this machine by hustling that much work to keep all those guys busy. I can go out and make an average of $1500 a with me, one ground guy and very little equipment and afford to sell work for much less than my competition and always manage to be home by 5:00 so I think smaller is definitely better since I can afford to turn one week worth of work into two and always stay busy. Also, if work is scarce I am still making a profit going out and doing a $400 job and enjoying my winter break. I don't really see the need for a climber to drag brush if they are working in sync with the ground guys. Getting a tree on the ground fast doesn't mean getting the job done fast, with good teamwork the ground should be cleared by the time the wood starts coming down but if you are part of a team nobody should ever be above helping in any way possible to get the job done.


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