# Skid steer, tractor, or some other machine?



## KiwiBro (Jun 26, 2011)

H everyone. I've a wee equipment dilemma and am not experienced enough to be sure what's possible and what I should be looking at.

Occasional winching/skidding of logs, log handling and stacking, occasional FEL of soil and gravel, mowing the paddocks and (when the lawn tractor/ride on finally dies) around the house lawns too, drilling holes for posts, grading/maintaining a 200 yard gravel driveway, lifting bags, pallets and FEL of firewood to load into truck and storage.

Was originally after a small tractor in the sub-30HP range but the more I consider our needs the more I think a small tractor will not cut the mustard.

What would you suggest and why? Please note money is always tight and I'd still need to save for quite a while before being able to afford anything I think, but the more I learn now, the better.

Thanks


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## arbor pro (Jun 28, 2011)

mini skid steer. Light weight so can go across lawns without tearing it up. Powerful enough to level out gravel and soil, load logs, etc and compact enough to get into tight spots. They come in various power configurations and with either tracks or wheels and you can run dozens of attachments with them just like a big skid steer.

I've been running them for about 5 years now and they're worth their weight in gold for what they can do. 

AP


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## jakedesnake048 (Jun 28, 2011)

I was just going to make a similar thread...

Have been seriously thinking of a few considerations. 

Around a 30hp farm tractor with a front end loader. 
Attachments - field mower, brush-hog, post hole digger, farmi log skidder (could always just rent attachments that you wouldn't use all the time - for me a post hole digger etc...or try to get in with a few people on implements)

This would be able to plow snow, mow the yard and property fields, grade driveways, do mulch, skid logs fairly easily. You could get a 2x4 and save some money. Especially if you had a front end loader, you should be able to get your self out of most problems if you got stuck (if not you could leave the skidder winch on or just use a come along)

Skid Steer - don't really know too much about these, but videos and people that own them love them. For me, I'd have to get a track one or I would be stuck everywhere on my property. 
Just about every implement imaginable. Only con to these is that implements are hella expensive. Most average new about 4-5k. 

I would probably just get a normal grading bucket and a root grapple. This would cover plowing, landscaping, logging operations. Optimally, you would be able to load the logs onto a trailer or in the back of a dump truck and take them to you central milling / etc operation site. 

Obviously here you would have to have a seperate mower. I have a Kubota zd326 zero turn at the moment, and I honestly couldn't imagine mowing my yard at the moment with anything else (it's over 7 acres, tons of trees etc)


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## arbor pro (Jun 29, 2011)

You need to prioritize your needs and buy a machine that excels at accomplishing the items at the top of the list but will also accomplish the items at the middle and bottom. If mowing is #1, then a tractor or dedicated mower is the way to go, not a skid steer. If moving material or items around is #1, a tractor or skid steer is what you should look at - I'd go with the skid steer. However, if moving material is secondary and running various attachments is what you really need, then you have to look at whether skid steer front-mount attachments are what you need or tractor mount attachments will do. The tractor attachments may be cheaper as pto driven attachments are typically half the cost of hydraulic-driven ones.

Each type of machine excels for different applications. You just need to make a list and prioritize your needs, then go shopping...

ap


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## gwiley (Jun 29, 2011)

I run two skid steers (a Bobcat 743 and a 773) and I LOVE using them for logging, a few facts to consider:

- skid steer is THE most versatile piece of heavy equipment you will find. I am not saying it can do everything, but it can do almost everything. Rental places can provide an attachment to do anything from brushing your teeth to breaking concrete.

- skid steer can not do finish mowing - even with turf friendly tracks you won't like what it does to the yard. Tracks let you work without creating huge ruts, but grass still gets disturbed. If you are very careful you can do minimal damage - not the way you want to mow the pasture every week. If that is a big part of your mission then go with the ag. tractor and a PTO driven finish mower.

- ag. tractor or compact tractors suck at digging and moving dirt. They simply aren't built with the brute pushing strength and rigid frame that they need to break the ground up (unless you live in a sandy area like Florida). Anyone who tells you different hasn't done enough excavation work to be helpful.

- In the woods doing selective harvesting? Nothing beats the 0 turn of a skid steer, you can wiggle in and out of the tightest spots. If you go that route you must have tracks to avoid bogging down in soft forest floor.

- Snow plowing over gravel roads - wheeled SS wins every time. I plow a few miles of gravel road for our HOA - hilly terrain that truck mounted plow just destroy (move the gravel too much).

I have decided that some day we need to get an ag. tractor, until then I use the SS for all that work. Breaking up soil for planting, FEL compost, dirt, mulch etc.


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## KiwiBro (Jun 29, 2011)

Thanks for the wise words. Yes, it is shaping as a matter of prioritising.
Might end up with a skid steer or mini skid steer and just buy a lawn tractor when currently terminal one finally dies.

Don't want to be in the situation of buying a tractor b/c it and attachment are much cheaper, only to find too many jobs are a nightmare to do on it and it can only lift, carry or push tiny amounts.


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## arbor pro (Jun 30, 2011)

KiwiBro said:


> Thanks for the wise words. Yes, it is shaping as a matter of prioritising.
> Might end up with a skid steer or mini skid steer and just buy a lawn tractor when currently terminal one finally dies.
> 
> Don't want to be in the situation of buying a tractor b/c it and attachment are much cheaper, only to find too many jobs are a nightmare to do on it and it can only lift, carry or push tiny amounts.


 
If you start looking at mini skids closer and would like to ask me some questions, I've run just about every model out there and will tell you the good and bad of each. I do have a couple for sale - a bobcat mt52 and a Boxer Prowler (both are tracked) but I won't push those on you if you just want to ask me some questions.

scott 605-228-9350


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## Wortown Mick (Jul 4, 2011)

Go with a bobcat a300 

The all wheel steer will make it easier on turf with a finish mower deck. 

And tractors just cant do as much work if its not PTO related. Tractor loaders are good for loading. 


Bobcats are good for everything. Forget about the mini machine toys.


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## arbor pro (Jul 4, 2011)

Wortown Mick said:


> Forget about the mini machine toys.


 
Advice from someone who has likely never efficently put a mini skid steer to use. Yes, an A300 is an awesome machine. Yes, it will outwork a mini skid in most any manner. No, it won't go everywhere a mini skid can. That is why manufacturers like Bobcat began making mini skids - to do the jobs a full-size skid steer is inappropriate for.

No, it's not as powerful as a full-size skid steer. Does that make it a toy? no. 

An A300 can't do what a payloader can. does that make it a toy? no.

It's all a matter of finding the right tool for the job. Sometimes, a mini skid is that tool.

AP


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## treeoperations (Jul 5, 2011)

where bouts ya based mate, if ya round auckland come check out our t190 and youll never look back.


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## gwiley (Jul 5, 2011)

How many hours have you put on the T* series? I have always heard that the rubber track based Bobcats wore through the tracks quickly and the servicing/replacing the tracks is expensive.

I have only run wheel based and wheel based with over the wheel tracks.

For plowing snow the wheel based machine with tire chains is the only way to go.

For woods work with soft floor the metal over the wheel tracks are the only way to go.


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## treeoperations (Jul 6, 2011)

gwiley said:


> How many hours have you put on the T* series? I have always heard that the rubber track based Bobcats wore through the tracks quickly and the servicing/replacing the tracks is expensive.
> 
> I have only run wheel based and wheel based with over the wheel tracks.
> 
> ...


 

I dont drive the T190 full time, my father drives it. it how we started our business 10 years ago.

We are currently on our third T190 but dad was 1 of 2 guys to get the 864s when they first hit the country then had the 3rd 864 from new 2 years later so hes been in them a while.

at worst we have had tracks die at 800 hours and at best we had them going till 1500 hours.

our t190 is mainly used for excavation and various other works in construction even tho its now being used more and more doing trees.

we dont find the tracks expensive to replace as the extra cost is just added to our hourly rate and the benefits of tracks over a tired machine with what we do are huge.
 
Before dad went to the 864,s he drove 2 mustangs with the steel over the tires and says they are absolutly useless as every thing we do here in New Zealand is on a slope.

with the T190s you have to drive them smart, you just keep the surface your working on as smooth as possible and dont perform 360 degree turns on rubble and tree slash.

We have mates with the posi-track and the cat track loaders and they do out power us but we claw it back in the fact that if some base course gets in the tracks, its going to just be powder when it comes out, unlike the other machines that suffer more wear to the track get due to rubber rollers.


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## plasticweld (Jul 10, 2011)

KiwiBro said:


> H everyone. I've a wee equipment dilemma and am not experienced enough to be sure what's possible and what I should be looking at.
> 
> Occasional winching/skidding of logs, log handling and stacking, occasional FEL of soil and gravel, mowing the paddocks and (when the lawn tractor/ride on finally dies) around the house lawns too, drilling holes for posts, grading/maintaining a 200 yard gravel driveway, lifting bags, pallets and FEL of firewood to load into truck and storage.
> 
> ...









I was in a similar situation I needed to skid wood but did not have a skidder, This is what I built. It is a mini skidder which also worked as a forwarder 






On the front I can use either my forks or bucket or my 20 ton hydraulic winch that runs off of the controls, I could change attachments very quickly. From building roads to loading the pulp trailer when hauling the trailer I could use the winch to help me out of any jams. I have used this set up to get out of some pretty steep places, the combination of the winch and tracks both driving at the same time made this a great set up for rough terain






On the back I welded up a bumper which let me skid logs for the shorter distances, I added a 9000 pound electric winch which let me grab the logs and get them next to the machine. I would use the bucket filled with dirt and then lower it down when backing up, this lowered the back bumper when I raised the bucket the back bumper also lifted so that the logs would not dig into the dirt. 






By adding tracks and welding up a cross pattern I was able to work in the ice and snow and the added weight made the machine both pull better and more stable on side hills and also allowed me to lift more weight. 







The pulp trailer let me use the machine as a forwarder. I found that I was un able to pull in a log truck that was loaded and that many times I had to get the logs to the road. This made the whole set up very functional and profitable. I was able to make enough money with this to pay cash for my first skidder. Both the winch and trailer are for sale if anyone is interested..Bob


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## KiwiBro (Jul 13, 2011)

treeoperations said:


> where bouts ya based mate, if ya round auckland come check out our t190 and youll never look back.


Wow, what an offer.

Yes please. I'm always keen to see this sort of machinery being worked and learn more about what can and can't be done.
I'm in Auckland Thursday - Saturday this week, if you have a job using that gear and I can come visit. That would be great. Thanks heaps for the offer.


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## treeoperations (Jul 17, 2011)

KiwiBro said:


> Wow, what an offer.
> 
> Yes please. I'm always keen to see this sort of machinery being worked and learn more about what can and can't be done.
> I'm in Auckland Thursday - Saturday this week, if you have a job using that gear and I can come visit. That would be great. Thanks heaps for the offer.


 
sorry i aint been in touch mate, the t190 has been parked on the back of the truck for past few days due to the #### as weather we have had and the fact dads been laying jakmat, let me know when your back in town and hopefully the machine is working so you can have a look.

Cheers K


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