# Buried Tree Trunks & Damaged Roots



## Bob 57 (Aug 28, 2014)

I am having a new home built and the builder graded out the front yard and buried four trees anywhere from 2 to 4 feet in the dirt (see the attached pictures). I have read that burying tree trunks like that will cause them to die later. I want those trees. Must the builder lessen the fill so that the tree trunks get uncovered? How much depth can they be buried, if any? Can a well be built around the trees to open up their trunks? What are my options? 

Second, they excavated my basement and cut into the roots of a big beautiful tree in my back yard. Then they backfilled and will fill in a little bit more dirt soon. As you can see in the picture, they cut and damaged quite a few roots, and the resulting grade slopes down from the tree to my house. I'm afraid that the tree is weakened and could someday fall on my house in a windstorm. Any opinions from the photos? I love the tree, but does it need to be removed?

Thanks, Bob


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## TC262 (Aug 28, 2014)

Buried tree is a goner for sure, just remove and replant. Tree that had roots damaged will likely survive but you will definitely be stressing it. You haven't told us what kind of tree though, some species are more resilient than others. By the way it looks your builder is a moron, you'll also have a wall of water rushing up against your foundation every time it rains.


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## Bob 57 (Aug 28, 2014)

TC262 said:


> Buried tree is a goner for sure, just remove and replant. Tree that had roots damaged will likely survive but you will definitely be stressing it. You haven't til us what kind of tree though, some species are more resilient than others. By the way it looks your builder is a moron, you'll also have a wall of water rushing up against your foundation every time it rains.


The buried trees were just recently covered a few days ago. I suspect that they are still recoverable since it hasn't been long. How much time do I have to dig them out and perhaps put a well around them or something? As far as the tree with damaged roots, I don't know what kind of tree it is, but I'll try and find out. I've been telling the builder to level out the ground back there by my basement wall, and they're just getting around to grading the back yard soon, so I'll stay on top of them to grade it correctly in that area. Thanks, Bob.


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## sac-climber (Aug 29, 2014)

Just sent a crew on a removal so a contractor could get equipment in to regrade a situation just like yours.


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## TC262 (Aug 29, 2014)

Bob 57 said:


> The buried trees were just recently covered a few days ago. I suspect that they are still recoverable since it hasn't been long. How much time do I have to dig them out and perhaps put a well around them or something? As far as the tree with damaged roots, I don't know what kind of tree it is, but I'll try and find out. I've been telling the builder to level out the ground back there by my basement wall, and they're just getting around to grading the back yard soon, so I'll stay on top of them to grade it correctly in that area. Thanks, Bob.


I'm all for saving trees but in your situation I'd remove and replant for the following reasons. Your likely to cause damage digging it back out. The soil is most likely compacted and would need to be decompacted using an air spade. In my opinion a 4 foot deep well strait out from your front door would not only be an eye sore but a safety hazard as well.


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## Bob 57 (Aug 29, 2014)

I thank everyone for your inputs. I'm meeting with the builder PM this afternoon and will come up with a plan. Thanks again.


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## M.D. Vaden (Aug 29, 2014)

A typical builder is the last person I would want for a project of removing soil back to an acceptable grade or condition. Sometimes it involves hand work toward the end to avoid root damage.


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## BC WetCoast (Aug 29, 2014)

The root zones around those trees have been compacted. There needs to be air spaces around the soil particles and fine roots to allow some air exchange necessary for the root cells to live. By compacting the soil, there is no air exchange possible and the roots will die, regardless of whether a tree well is installed or not.

The roots that were damaged by the excavator need to be exposed and properly root pruned, cut using either a saw or pruners. If roots are cut his way, then fibourous feeding roots are encouraged to grow from the cut end. This is not the case for roots that are ripped.

Around here, municipalities require a root protection zone be established around any retained trees on new house construction. The general rule of thumb size of the root protection zone is 1' of radius for every inch of diameter. Therefore, if you have a 12" tree, your root protection zone would be 12' radius around the tree.


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## ATH (Aug 29, 2014)

I am not too concerned about the cut-root tree, as others have said.

Also agree that the buried tree is not in good shape. I just helped a client with this exact situation earlier this year. They had about 8-10 trees buried between 1-3 feet. We excavated around them then air-knifed the entire area. A "well" around the trees? Sure...if the bottom is at least as big as the drip line - preferable 1.5-2 times the drip line... In the one I was dealing with, fortunately, we were able to bring at least half of the rooting zone back to grade by simply changing where the grade for the yard sloped off


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## Bob 57 (Aug 29, 2014)

Wow, lots of things to consider. My home builder is willing to excavate the compacted soil back out from around those trees. But I'm afraid that their crew will probably be in a hurry and may very well damage the roots. And they of course can't allow me to do any of the work for liability reasons since it is still their property. So it looks like I will just have to let them have a go at it and see how they do. What a mess. The required size of the root protection zone worries me and I doubt they'll be able to achieve it. I think I will contact the county arborist and see if he can come out and tell us exactly what needs to be done. Thanks for the inputs.


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## ATH (Aug 30, 2014)

Did you express interest in keeping the trees when planning the build? (is that in writing?). If so, I'd hire an arborist with the expectation that the builder cover that cost. Whether the arborist does the work or oversees the builders doing it is something you can discuss.

It will be pretty obvious when the find the original soil line....so they just need to stop digging there. If you aren't going to leave at least 12' at original depth, as BC WestCoast outlined, I wouldn't even bother. Just cut this one 6-12" below final grade ask the builder if they would rather provide a new 3" caliper tree (and make sure it is not planted too deep!). That would probably be about the same cost as the excavation anyhow.


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## TC262 (Aug 30, 2014)

Don't even bother with having the contractor dig it out. Your much better off setting a nice grade in the front yard and replanting.


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## Bob 57 (Aug 30, 2014)

I don't have it in writing, but the builder stated right from the start that he wasn't going to take any trees out, except for the ones taken out by the site developer when they created my lot. So he would rather regrade up front around those buried trees and try and uncover them. I don't think they want to pay for a tree removal company to come in to take the trees down. I talked to him today and the only tree he plans to cut down is the small skinny one that's buried 4 feet deep. But the other two larger ones that are only buried 2 feet deep is where he plans on Tuesday to regrade and uncover the original soil line. I don't think there's much I can do at this point (since I don't own any of the property yet) except let them uncover those shallow buried trees, document everything, and then maybe take them to court later if those two trees die. But since those two trees were just recently buried and it's only 2 feet deep, I would think that they have a decent chance of being saved. I wouldn't mind cutting them down and replanting to have a nice grade, but I don't think I can force the builder at this point to do that.


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## ATH (Aug 30, 2014)

Bob 57 said:


> I don't have it in writing......I don't own any of the property yet......maybe take them to court later if those two trees die.......
> I don't think I can force the builder at this point to do that.


What grounds would you take them to court on, and how strong of a case do you think you'd have?

Is this a spec-build that you have already agreed to buy? I am confused by this being "your house", but you have no control over what happens...


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## Bob 57 (Aug 30, 2014)

It's a brand new spec home being built. I am buying it but I won't own it until everything closes in a month and a half. I go out to the house every day and take numerous pictures of everything as documentation. What I don't want is to have the buried trees dying on me a year after I buy the home and then I have to pay to get them removed. I'm no expert on trees. But it seems to me that a builder who buries some trees under some deep dirt and who is alerted to the fact that doing so will kill the trees, can be held liable if those exact same trees that were buried die later. This is a big national level builder, but the PM and his boss don't seem to know much about trees. I told them two weeks ago that I thought that burying trees would kill them, but they buried them anyway. Now that I've told them that experts on arborist forums say that the buried trees will die, the PM is now willing to uncover them and cut down the small one that was deeply buried. So they may not be real smart in regard to trees, but they are trying to make it right. However, it's still not my property, so I can't force them to do anything, like chop the trees down, which they don't seem to want to do (I suspect it's a cost issue). That's why I feel that my only option is to let them cut down the skinny tree that's buried 4 feet deep, and uncover the two bigger trees that are only buried 2 feet deep.


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## Zale (Aug 30, 2014)

Chances are the trees that are being "uncovered" are going to die. It might take a year or two but their chances aren't good. The other tree with the cut situation has a better chance of survival. Try to work it out with the builder now regarding the cost of removal in the future.


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## Bob 57 (Aug 30, 2014)

Hmm... I'll talk to the builder's PM on Tuesday and see what he will do. Thanks for all the advice.


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## ATH (Aug 31, 2014)

They probably will NOT die in a year or two. It may be 7-8...and it will 'technically' be bark beetles or armillaria or the like that kills the trees. Burring them is a primary stressor that weakens the trees and start the decline spiral. Other pathogens move in and finish the job.

Rather than taking some guy's word off of the internet (not that you haven't gotten good answers here), why not talk to them about bringing an arborist on site (even if you have to hire that consultation) to make sure it is done correctly. How much are the trees worth to you? Yes, I wish builders would do a better job protecting trees, but they just don't - either on spec builds and on custom builds. Maybe if you offer to foot half of the bill of getting what you want done, they will be willing to participate? If the trees need to be removed, it would certainly be cheaper for you to get them down now before you have a yard to contend with...so if that is what you think is best for the long-term talk to them about you paying for that? Or, if you want to keep the trees, and you don't have confidence they can do it - again, offer to pay. How much are the trees worth to you?

I am certainly not an attorney, but I don't think they have any legal liability here. You would be buying the house "as is" knowing what you are getting. Sounds like they'd have a stronger argument. Now...if they were your trees when the damage was done or if they offer some kind of 10 year warranty, you might have a leg to stand on.

Guess those are just my ramblings!


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## B Harrison (Aug 31, 2014)

i know this is an answered question, but I can add, that White Oaks, (looks like your trees) are very easily stressed with grading around the tree. I agree the tree with damaged roots may make it, but in 10 years its still had stress at the base and that tree will grow tallllllll. In the summer it will have very heavy limbs that are over your house.

The buried trees are a mistake and your builder needs to take partial responsibility for there removal. Unless he suggested removing them and digging out the stumps. The tree and stump need to come out or you will have a sink whole of sorts years from now in your yard. I hate that builders are this way, it was why I never did well building new homes. Cant compete with builders that leave out expensive issues that will not be a problem for 5-10 years. This is your construction project, so unless you have a contract that says the builder is responcible for site prep and grading(.) then you should offer to help. If it was a turn key price then they are his trees.


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## Bob 57 (Aug 31, 2014)

Thanks to everyone for all the information. I am going to talk to the PM on Tuesday when he returns and see if they will remove the trees, stumps and all. I really doubt that they will. So then I'll see what they would be willing to do with me as a collaborative effort. Based on all of your inputs, my preference would be to completely remove the trees, leave the grade as is, and then plant new trees once I move in.

On a side note: As far as the legality is concerned, I made the deposit on the home with those trees in place and the builder saying that he wasn't going to remove any of them. That is the "as-is" condition that my deposit is based on. Now that they went and regraded and likely sealed the fate of those trees to die because they buried them, it seems to me that I would have a legitimate argument that it's their fault. But I'm not a lawyer, so what do I know? I just use common sense. But I'd rather resolve the problem now than having to deal with it years later. Thanks.


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