# Mastermind Meets a Brand New MS460



## Mastermind (Feb 14, 2012)

I love it when a new saw shows up for port work. This is will get the squish band cut rather than a popup. In all honesty I can't see any difference in performance, but being able to replace the piston without having any machine work done is desirable to a lot of my customers. So here we go.

It's got a smudge of glue from the tape that was part of the packing material. I'll get that off. 







Never in my eyes has there been a better looking saw built than the MS460.  











The muffler has been modded already. I'll add a factory dual port cover to keep the saw looking stock.


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## wendell (Feb 14, 2012)

Criminy, following your threads is becoming a full time job.


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## booger1286 (Feb 14, 2012)

Good looking saw. Am i wrong or is it only helpful to raise the squish band on saws that are too close without a gasket?


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## dh1984 (Feb 14, 2012)

Dang Randy i wouldn't use that one i put it up on a shelf so everyone could look at it. And if they try to touch it find something to hit their hands with and say don't touch


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## Mastermind (Feb 14, 2012)

I started with .032 squish with the base gasket installed. I want to take about .030 out of the squish band, then drop the jug back down to end up at .023.....

But first lets look at the jug as the factory had it.

It is sporting a Mahle jug. 






Good casting and plating. 






The transfer tunnels are pretty large too. The combustion chamber and squish band is a little rough though.






Intake ports seems tiny to me. The one in my 460 is huge in comparison.


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## Mastermind (Feb 14, 2012)

wendell said:


> Criminy, following your threads is becoming a full time job.



You should try building all these dang saws. Hell just keeping the area we test them at clear of cookies is a job. 



booger1286 said:


> Good looking saw. Am i wrong or is it only helpful to raise the squish band on saws that are too close without a gasket?



This saw would have been good without a gasket. What we are after is more compression. :msp_sneaky:

Here's the factory specs.

Squish: .032
Exhaust Duration: 156° = 102° ATDC
Transfers: 123° ATDC = 21° blowdown
Intake Duration: 145° = 72.5° ATDC


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## Bowtie (Feb 14, 2012)

I wondered if it was a Mahle or Stihl casting, but I wondered that after it was in the mail.


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## Mastermind (Feb 14, 2012)

Here's a shot of the squish band after cutting it.......turned out pretty good for my first try. 






Some days taking a damn good picture is more than I can manage. 

I so trying to show where the squish ended up.......I've got .065 now so I took .033 out of the band. I can live with that. :msp_smile:


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## Mastermind (Feb 14, 2012)

Bowtie said:


> I wondered if it was a Mahle or Stihl casting, but I wondered that after it was in the mail.



I was real glad to see that Mahle in the casting too. 

I should have it finished tomorrow and get to run some fuel through it. Of course you know we will have to run it against my 460 to see how it stacks up to the older D shaped jug saw. :msp_biggrin:


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## NORMZILLA44 (Feb 14, 2012)

Gotta love that model too Randy! Awesome It is in good hands


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## Bowtie (Feb 14, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I was real glad to see that Mahle in the casting too.
> 
> I should have it finished tomorrow and get to run some fuel through it. Of course you know we will have to run it against my 460 to see how it stacks up to the older D shaped jug saw. :msp_biggrin:



Right on. Thats what it's all about.


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## wigglesworth (Feb 14, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> You should try building all these dang saws. Hell just keeping the area we test them at clear of cookies is a job.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That exhaust is pretty darn high compared to most I've seen. Trans and intake are par for the course though....


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## Mastermind (Feb 14, 2012)

NORMZILLA44 said:


> Gotta love that model too Randy! Awesome It is in good hands



Thanks for the vote of confidence my friend. 

I have a soft spot for the 046/460 That was my first big Stihl......I still have it too. 



Bowtie said:


> Right on. Thats what it's all about.



My old saw is a stout runner IMO. A damn 372 beat it though. 



wigglesworth said:


> That exhaust is pretty darn high compared to most I've seen. Trans and intake are par for the course though....



I thought so too J. What do you think about the machining?


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## wigglesworth (Feb 14, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I thought so too J. What do you think about the machining?



Its a bit rough where the squish band drops into the chamber, but its not the machinist fault, just the crappy casting on the chamber....






I got just the thing to fix it though, ill send you one with your box this week.


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## Mastermind (Feb 14, 2012)

wigglesworth said:


> Its a bit rough where the squish band drops into the chamber, but its not the machinist fault, just the crappy casting on the chamber....
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Wow.......when you blow it up it does look rough. 

Please get out of my thread.


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## ChainsawmanXX (Feb 14, 2012)

...Makes me wanna send you my 046. 

Gonna wait for the video to make up my mind


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## Jacob J. (Feb 14, 2012)

wigglesworth said:


> Its a bit rough where the squish band drops into the chamber, but its not the machinist fault, just the crappy casting on the chamber....
> 
> I got just the thing to fix it though, ill send you one with your box this week.



The "Wigglesworth combustion chamber clean-up system" is a winner...


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## wigglesworth (Feb 14, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Wow.......when you blow it up it does look rough.
> 
> Please get out of my thread.



HAHA....

Its not your fault, its just the crappy casting. LOL The newer 460 jugs have the worst looking castings in the chamber ive ever seen. 

The machine work itself looks great!!


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## Mastermind (Feb 14, 2012)

Jacob J. said:


> The "Wigglesworth combustion chamber clean-up system" is a winner...



Yes Sir......Yes it is.


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## Mastermind (Feb 14, 2012)

wigglesworth said:


> HAHA....
> 
> Its not your fault, its just the crappy casting. LOL The newer 460 jugs have the worst looking castings in the chamber ive ever seen.
> 
> The machine work itself looks great!!



OIC now you want back on my "good side".....

I ain't got nary one of em though.


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## NORMZILLA44 (Feb 14, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Thanks for the vote of confidence my friend.
> 
> I have a soft spot for the 046/460 That was my first big Stihl......I still have it too.
> 
> ...


Anytime buddy!!!! P.S I want to clear up something, I had heard rumor that Stihl no longer used MAHLE cylinders on the 660 Is this true? If so just the 660?


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## wigglesworth (Feb 14, 2012)

Jacob J. said:


> The "Wigglesworth combustion chamber clean-up system" is a winner...



It does work very, very well, if I do say so myself. 

before....







After....


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## wendell (Feb 15, 2012)

It can change the cylinder color? That's awesome!!


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## booger1286 (Feb 15, 2012)

Oh yea forgot about machining bottom of jug. dumb question


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## Jacob J. (Feb 15, 2012)

wendell said:


> It can change the cylinder color? That's awesome!!



The first picture had the reflection from his bong in it...


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## Mastermind (Feb 15, 2012)

NORMZILLA44 said:


> Anytime buddy!!!! P.S I want to clear up something, I had heard rumor that Stihl no longer used MAHLE cylinders on the 660 Is this true? If so just the 660?



I'm not sure what all saws they are using Stihl jugs on now but I do know that the Mahle quality is top notch...


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## Mastermind (Feb 15, 2012)

Jacob J. said:


> The first picture had the reflection from his bong in it...



I can see Wendell with a bong in his hand........but not Wiggs. opcorn:


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## Bowtie (Feb 15, 2012)

Jacob J. said:


> The first picture had the reflection from his bong in it...



When I was in college I ported a bong, but thats a topic for a different forum...


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## Bowtie (Feb 15, 2012)

Bowtie said:


> When I was in college I ported a bong, but thats a topic for a different forum...



And just to clarify, I left that little hobby in the dust back when I was still in college...


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## showrguy (Feb 15, 2012)

oh boy;;;;;;;;
i can see where this thread is headed !!!!!!!


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## Bowtie (Feb 15, 2012)

showrguy said:


> oh boy;;;;;;;;
> i can see where this thread is headed !!!!!!!



Yeah. Once bitten twice shy.


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## parrisw (Feb 15, 2012)

Nice Randy. How did ya set up the cylinder to cut it?


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## Mastermind (Feb 15, 2012)

Bowtie said:


> And just to clarify, I left that little hobby in the dust back when I was still in college...



Yeah sure whatever........ :msp_sneaky:


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## wigglesworth (Feb 15, 2012)

wendell said:


> It can change the cylinder color? That's awesome!!



Nah, thats the pixie dust that does that.


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## Mastermind (Feb 15, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Nice Randy. How did ya set up the cylinder to cut it?



I was wondering when that would come up. 

I made a cutter that I turned by hand from a plastic mandrel. Very simple.


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## Bowtie (Feb 15, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Yeah sure whatever........ :msp_sneaky:



With my medical card and random UA's at work, my only fun anymore is saws and beer. Hell I cant even afford race cars or skydiving anymore. Chainsaws fill that void quite nice, and they get expensive too! LOL!


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## parrisw (Feb 15, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I was wondering when that would come up.
> 
> I made a cutter that I turned by hand from a plastic mandrel. Very simple.



Pics or it didn't happen. I'd rather see pics of the tools rather then the work.


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## Mastermind (Feb 15, 2012)

Bowtie said:


> With my medical card and random UA's at work, my only fun anymore is saws and beer. Hell I cant even afford race cars or skydiving anymore. Chainsaws fill that void quite nice, and they get expensive too! LOL!



Yeah I'm way past all the things I thought were so much fun back then. 



parrisw said:


> Pics or it didn't happen. I'd rather see pics of the tools rather then the work.



If I showed the tool I would get to hear about how that wouldn't work and stuff.........


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## chopperfreak2k1 (Feb 15, 2012)

typical Mastermind bullchit thread...



























subscribed!


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## parrisw (Feb 15, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> If I showed the tool I would get to hear about how that wouldn't work and stuff.........



Umm, you must be talking about another tool that doesn't work that I have no interest in.


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## fastLeo151 (Feb 15, 2012)

*looking great!*

I cant wait to see more, Dont spoil your self with new clean saws. you should have thrown it in the mud before you started.:hmm3grin2orange:

Andrew


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## David (saltas) (Feb 15, 2012)

opcorn:


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## atvguns (Feb 15, 2012)

Bowtie said:


> When I was in college I ported a bong, but thats a topic for a different forum...



What was his name.


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## gcsupraman (Feb 15, 2012)

I think Mastermind needs to meet a 441CM :hmm3grin2orange:

Bowtie, if your not in a rush to get your saw back I can send mine down on Friday, as long as Randy has the time and can take on the work.

It would be really nice to see a comparison between the two as there have been several 460 vs 440Mtronic threads.

-Greg


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## deye223 (Feb 15, 2012)

opcorn: gday randy


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## Stihlman441 (Feb 15, 2012)

gcsupraman said:


> I think Mastermind needs to meet a 441CM :hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> Bowtie, if your not in a rush to get your saw back I can send mine down on Friday, as long as Randy has the time and can take on the work.
> 
> ...



This is the best thing i have read in a long time what a classic battle 460 ported V 441CM ported,new against old.

If you can get these 441CMs worked out Randy i will put my name down for 2 of um.

Andrew


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## mdavlee (Feb 15, 2012)

Looks nice Randy. Will it work in a 51.4mm bore? :msp_wink:


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## Bowtie (Feb 15, 2012)

gcsupraman said:


> I think Mastermind needs to meet a 441CM :hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> Bowtie, if your not in a rush to get your saw back I can send mine down on Friday, as long as Randy has the time and can take on the work.
> 
> ...



That's what videos are for!


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## Mastermind (Feb 15, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Umm, you must be talking about another tool that doesn't work that I have no interest in.



I'll post some pics of the "tool" when I get back out to the shop Will. I've been using Delrin to make my mandrels from.....I just milled a slot across the end of a piece and slipped a 1/16 by 1/4 HHS tool blank in the slot. I ground a cutter on the side of both ends.......slid it in the bore and twisted away.

It left some small chatter marks, and I had to check my progress several times to see how much I had cut, but it works fine. I put some 80 grit on the same mandrel when I was close and slicked it up. 

I'll be doing more this same way. I can use the same mandrel that I spin the jug on to make the cutter. The only variable is the HSS bit. I'll need several in varying lengths.



mdavlee said:


> Looks nice Randy. Will it work in a 51.4mm bore? :msp_wink:



Yes Sir.



Bowtie said:


> That's what videos are for!



Video racing is a sport in this county.


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## Stihl n Wood (Feb 15, 2012)

Hey Randy, my 460 is already ported. But I didn't touch squish at all. Still running the gasket. Its very strong now but I left room to go back in at some point which I planned in the first place. I was hoping to do a pop up or cut the band and deck it so it could remain an easy switch of piston if need be. Would it be possible. If I check the squish again and send you just the jug you could cut it and send it back? Then I could degree it and do a little more? I getting a lathe at some point which is my grandfathers, but I haven't learned how to use it quite yet. My grandfather knows it very well and is going to teach me what he can. But in the meantime I have not looked around for anyone in my area who will do this type of work for me. By the way as always nice work!! The 460 is a beautiful thing...


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## gcsupraman (Feb 15, 2012)

Stihlman441 said:


> This is the best thing i have read in a long time what a classic battle 460 ported V 441CM ported,new against old.
> 
> If you can get these 441CMs worked out Randy i will put my name down for 2 of um.
> 
> Andrew



Andrew,

Just spoke with Randy - my 441rcm will ship out to him on friday and after mods he will compare it to his personal ported ms460. This way bowtie's saw is not held up for the comparison test.

Cant wait!

Greg


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## srcarr52 (Feb 15, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Here's the factory specs.
> 
> Squish: .032
> Exhaust Duration: 156° = 102° ATDC
> ...



Very similar to the 460 I measured a week ago and you're right about the intake port... it is tiny. I only cut 0.025" out of the squish and I'm 0.040" from free porting so be careful.

What where your final numbers? I decided to move them up into the old D chambered 046 territory on the one I'm building. There was quite a pile of material when I got done porting it, 0.025 off the squish plus adding 6 degrees of duration to the transfers is a long way to go. 
Ex. 159
Trans. 118
In. 154
Blowdown 19.5


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## Trx250r180 (Feb 15, 2012)

does anyone know if the mahle jugs were used for a certain year range ? or has it been hit or miss through the years ?


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## Mastermind (Feb 15, 2012)

Stihl n Wood said:


> Hey Randy, my 460 is already ported. But I didn't touch squish at all. Still running the gasket. Its very strong now but I left room to go back in at some point which I planned in the first place. I was hoping to do a pop up or cut the band and deck it so it could remain an easy switch of piston if need be. Would it be possible. If I check the squish again and send you just the jug you could cut it and send it back? Then I could degree it and do a little more? I getting a lathe at some point which is my grandfathers, but I haven't learned how to use it quite yet. My grandfather knows it very well and is going to teach me what he can. But in the meantime I have not looked around for anyone in my area who will do this type of work for me. By the way as always nice work!! The 460 is a beautiful thing...



Yes I could do that for you. Send me a PM. 



srcarr52 said:


> Very similar to the 460 I measured a week ago and you're right about the intake port... it is tiny. I only cut 0.025" out of the squish and I'm 0.040" from free porting so be careful.
> 
> What where your final numbers? I decided to move them up into the old D chambered 046 territory on the one I'm building. There was quite a pile of material when I got done porting it, 0.025 off the squish plus adding 6 degrees of duration to the transfers is a long way to go.
> Ex. 159
> ...



My 460 with a D shaped top end is at free port now. You can see the bevel on the bottom of the piston skirt at TDC. I'm aware of that danger on these puppies. 

The numbers you posted here are where I'm headed with this one. It's tough to beat the old 046 jugs. You are dead right on those transfers......a looong way to go up. 



I think Stihl has just recently gotten started making their own jugs.......I hope to be corrected if that's wrong.


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## MacLaren (Feb 15, 2012)

My 660 is an 08 and has a Stihl jug.
Dont think it really matters though.
Mine turned out well. Also mdavlee had a newer 660 and it too had a Stihl jug
I believe. Mahle is nicer for sure though

Sent from my MB855 using Tapatalk


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## Stihlman441 (Feb 15, 2012)

gcsupraman said:


> Andrew,
> 
> Just spoke with Randy - my 441rcm will ship out to him on friday and after mods he will compare it to his personal ported ms460. This way bowtie's saw is not held up for the comparison test.
> 
> ...



Thanks Greg i am very interested in this outcome and vids would be good,keep us posted.

Andrew


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## Bowtie (Feb 15, 2012)

Mastermind please dont forget to put one of them there stickers on that bad boy when you are done with it!

To say I am excited to try that saw out after you are done with it would likely be the understatement of the year!


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## bryanr2 (Feb 15, 2012)

gcsupraman said:


> Andrew,
> 
> Just spoke with Randy - my 441rcm will ship out to him on friday and after mods he will compare it to his personal ported ms460. This way bowtie's saw is not held up for the comparison test.
> 
> ...



If that's the same 460 I ran once, the 441 will have it's hands full. Masterminds 460 is on another level. Should be very interesting to see.


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## bryanr2 (Feb 15, 2012)

Bowtie said:


> Mastermind please dont forget to put one of them there stickers on that bad boy when you are done with it!
> 
> To say I am excited to try that saw out after you are done with it would likely be the understatement of the year!



:msp_sneaky:Randy, I think you're going to have to go back to putting the sticker on first thing. Missing stickers is becoming an all to common occurance it seems (Im missing one on the Dolly 120si, and I know of atleast one other member who recently said he was missing his sticker- maybe the 562 thread).:bang: The sticker is vital. It's like a 'seal of certification or certificate of authenticity'. It's our proof that we've had a saw come thru your shop. You're slippin mahn! I know you're trying to keep up with the work, but all ya gotta do is take 5 seconds and pull the back off that sticker and stick it on- it doesnt have to be straight, it just needs to be on the saw.:hmm3grin2orange:


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## Bowtie (Feb 15, 2012)

bryanr2 said:


> :msp_sneaky:Randy, I think you're going to have to go back to putting the sticker on first thing. Missing stickers is becoming an all to common occurance it seems (Im missing one on the Dolly 120si, and I know of atleast one other member who recently said he was missing his sticker- maybe the 562 thread).:bang: The sticker is vital. It's like a 'seal of certification or certificate of authenticity'. It's our proof that we've had a saw come thru your shop. You're slippin mahn! I know you're trying to keep up with the work, but all ya gotta do is take 5 seconds and pull the back off that sticker and stick it on- it doesnt have to be straight, it just needs to be on the saw.:hmm3grin2orange:



Stickers gotta be straight! :msp_thumbup:


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## M-tooth (Feb 15, 2012)

Subscribed:msp_smile:


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## sgrizz (Feb 15, 2012)

x2


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## Mastermind (Feb 15, 2012)

Bowtie said:


> Mastermind please dont forget to put one of them there stickers on that bad boy when you are done with it!
> 
> To say I am excited to try that saw out after you are done with it would likely be the understatement of the year!



Hell I'm excited to run it too!!!!! :hmm3grin2orange:



Bowtie said:


> Stickers gotta be straight! :msp_thumbup:



Yes. Yes they do. You hear that Steven???? :msp_sneaky:


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## Mastermind (Feb 15, 2012)

This pic is for Will.


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## gcsupraman (Feb 15, 2012)

bryanr2 said:


> If that's the same 460 I ran once, the 441 will have it's hands full. Masterminds 460 is on another level. Should be very interesting to see.



He's already warned me!!!  I think bowtie's 460 would have been a better comparison, but he has work for his saw to do. Regardless of which saw is faster, it will be great information learned.

I was going to ship out my saw on Friday, but with the orders piling up for the stickers it's going out tomorrow am. I mean, your waiting for 3 stickers alone!!

Makita DSC 6401 (awaiting 7900 Install/Port with HD filter) (*Next to get a Sticker*)
Husqvarna 288xp lite (thanks Mastermind!) (*Awaiting a Sticker*)
Johnsered 2095 (*awaiting Sticker*)





Now, back to me watching this thread unfold opcorn:


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## Mastermind (Feb 15, 2012)

I didn't get Jason's saw finished today though I'm very close. I had an opportunity to drop and buck a few trees and needed to but some fuel though a few saws so....well. I cut wood. 

I do have some numbers for the gearheads and some pics for everyone.

The factory has the transfers low......very low IMHO. 126° ATDC 

I wanted them at 118° so here's how we got there.

I use a ring in the jug that the piston pushes up the bore until I got 118° on the degree wheel. I then back the piston down the bore and pull the jug off. This is what 118° looks like.






Then I rough it it with a cut off wheel....






And then I use a RT angle tool with a burr and a diamond stone to clean it up.


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## young (Feb 15, 2012)

man that chits gangster. hahaha


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## Bowtie (Feb 15, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I didn't get Jason's saw finished today though I'm very close. I had an opportunity to drop and buck a few trees and needed to but some fuel though a few saws so....well. I cut wood.
> 
> I do have some numbers for the gearheads and some pics for everyone.
> 
> ...



All good thing to those who wait! Thanks for the pics. It makes it different when it is your saw seeing what is done. 

(This is my first saw I have had this kind of work done to) for those that did not know.


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## komatsuvarna (Feb 15, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> This is will get the squish band cut rather than a popup. In all honesty I can't see any difference in performance.



I've though about the same from the get go. They may be a very small difference in performance, but I seriously doubt its anything ya can feel or see,,, then again I've been wrong ALOT! There's just not that much difference between a popup and a combustion chamber cut to be able to feel the difference IMO. Compression is compression.....how ever ya go about getting it. It would be really REALLY nice just to slap an OEM piston it it 20 years from now though.


Looks good Randy! I'm ancious to see the video of the 460 vs the 046 buildoff saw!!:msp_smile:


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## RichardGrayJr (Feb 15, 2012)

The porting work looks fantastic. I'll be sending you my 441C stock muffler for gcsupraman's saw and am really looking forward to watching these saws unfold.


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## Mastermind (Feb 15, 2012)

Bowtie said:


> All good thing to those who wait! Thanks for the pics. It makes it different when it is your saw seeing what is done.
> 
> (This is my first saw I have had this kind of work done to) for those that did not know.



You would not believe how much aluminum came outta that jug...........are you wanting it back????? :hmm3grin2orange:


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## Mastermind (Feb 15, 2012)

RichardGrayJr said:


> The porting work looks fantastic. I'll be sending you my 441C stock muffler for gcsupraman's saw and am really looking forward to watching his saw unfold.



Thanks for the nod. I do try really hard to do a good job. 

Wigglesworth's port work is nicer looking though. :msp_mellow:

He makes em purty.......


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## Bowtie (Feb 15, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> You would not believe how much aluminum came outta that jug...........are you wanting it back????? :hmm3grin2orange:



Especially if it runs better!


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## bryanr2 (Feb 15, 2012)

gcsupraman said:


> He's already warned me!!!  I think bowtie's 460 would have been a better comparison, but he has work for his saw to do. Regardless of which saw is faster, it will be great information learned.
> 
> I was going to ship out my saw on Friday, but with the orders piling up for the stickers it's going out tomorrow am. I mean, your waiting for 3 stickers alone!!
> 
> ...



The 2095 is in the shop- I cant say if it's on the bench, shelf, or floor- but I know it's in there. And actually, I'm waiting on 4- Randy's gonna port my Stihl fs250R weedeater just for ####z & giggles.


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## Mastermind (Feb 15, 2012)

Bowtie said:


> Especially if it runs better!



I meant the aluminum chips.


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## parrisw (Feb 15, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I'll post some pics of the "tool" when I get back out to the shop Will. I've been using Delrin to make my mandrels from.....I just milled a slot across the end of a piece and slipped a 1/16 by 1/4 HHS tool blank in the slot. I ground a cutter on the side of both ends.......slid it in the bore and twisted away.
> 
> It left some small chatter marks, and I had to check my progress several times to see how much I had cut, but it works fine. I put some 80 grit on the same mandrel when I was close and slicked it up.
> 
> ...



I figured that's what you did Randy.



Mastermind said:


> This pic is for Will.



THanks! That's how Tree Monkey's is I think, similar anyway. How do you insure the cutter is square in that slot? And how did you measure how much you took out?



Mastermind said:


> I didn't get Jason's saw finished today though I'm very close. I had an opportunity to drop and buck a few trees and needed to but some fuel though a few saws so....well. I cut wood.
> 
> I do have some numbers for the gearheads and some pics for everyone.
> 
> ...



Looks really great Randy. That's some might fine clean work. The way I mark the trans is through the plug hole with a pencil or fine point sharpe and use the piston as a guide. I stuff a ring in there too to make sure the transfers are even after though.


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## young (Feb 15, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I meant the aluminum chips.



put it up on ebay. someone would buy it. its stihl.


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## Bowtie (Feb 15, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I meant the aluminum chips.



Geez Louise, Jason. That went right over my head! :confused2:


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## wendell (Feb 15, 2012)

Bowtie said:


> Geez Louise, Jason. That went right over my head! :confused2:



Jason's name is Randy.

Are you sure you shouldn't be posting in the "Who's drinking with me" thread? :hmm3grin2orange:


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## Mastermind (Feb 15, 2012)

parrisw said:


> I figured that's what you did Randy.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I milled the slot so it's square and even across the bottom. The cutter is just a slip fit. I can grind the cutter to put a 1 or 2° angle on the squish band. I'm not convinced that it's necessary though. All the newest saws I build are square.....I wonder what these engineers have discovered now????? 

I cut a few twists then check my progress by rechecking squish. It's not an extremely fast way to do it but I would be willing to bet it's faster than setup on my lathe would be. It leaves some chatter marks that sand out easily using the same mandrel with 80 grit on it. 



young said:


> put it up on ebay. someone would buy it. its stihl.



I may just do that Young.


----------



## RiverRat2 (Feb 15, 2012)

wendell said:


> Jason's name is Randy.
> 
> Are you sure you shouldn't be posting in the "Who's drinking with me" thread? :hmm3grin2orange:



Hey wendell,,, I'll drink to that!!!!


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 15, 2012)

Are you turning the mandrel by hand?


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 15, 2012)

wendell said:


> Jason's name is Randy.
> 
> Are you sure you shouldn't be posting in the "Who's drinking with me" thread? :hmm3grin2orange:



So is Jason's 



blsnelling said:


> Are you turning the mandrel by hand?



Yes Sir. It cuts pretty damn good that way too.


----------



## Bowtie (Feb 15, 2012)

wendell said:


> Jason's name is Randy.
> 
> Are you sure you shouldn't be posting in the "Who's drinking with me" thread? :hmm3grin2orange:



My name is Jason, and I was referring to myself. I can see how that could be taken that way though!:msp_smile:


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 15, 2012)

Bowtie said:


> My name is Jason, and I was referring to myself. I can see how that could be taken that way though!:msp_smile:



My name is Randy....and I'm a CAD victim!!!!! :biggrin:


----------



## RiverRat2 (Feb 15, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> You would not believe how much aluminum came outta that jug...........are you wanting it back????? :hmm3grin2orange:



Randy just curious,,, at the edges of the bore/roof junction it looks like a small ridge in there where the cutter didnt get all the way to the wall,,, is that and issue??? how do you get it out???


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 15, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Yes Sir. It cuts pretty damn good that way too.



I'll take one in each size I'm not too proud to cut by hand!


----------



## RiverRat2 (Feb 15, 2012)

Bowtie said:


> My name is Jason, and I was referring to myself. I can see how that could be taken that way though!:msp_smile:



LOLOL!!! settle down Jason,,,,


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 15, 2012)

RiverRat2 said:


> Randy just curious,,, at the edges of the bore/roof junction it looks like a small ridge in there where the cutter didnt get all the way to the wall,,, is that and issue??? how do you get it out???



The cutter was cutting all the way out. The edge you are seeing is where the sandpaper didn't go all the way out when I did the clean up. It might be .002 - .003 high......much less than the squish area. So I can't see it being an issue.


----------



## Bowtie (Feb 15, 2012)

RiverRat2 said:


> LOLOL!!! settle down Jason,,,,



No problemo here. My problem is sometimes I speak/type a hybrid of english and a series of ape grunts and clicks!:hmm3grin2orange:

Im cool as a cucumber, and totally enjoying this thread!!


----------



## tlandrum (Feb 15, 2012)

hey randy my name is terry and i think we suffer from the same affliction. is there any hope for us?


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 15, 2012)

I don't think you were this excited when you bought your 064 from Lakeside:biggrin:


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 15, 2012)

tlandrum said:


> hey randy my name is terry and i think we suffer from the same affliction. is there any hope for us?



No. We're all doomed!


----------



## parrisw (Feb 15, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I milled the slot so it's square and even across the bottom. The cutter is just a slip fit. I can grind the cutter to put a 1 or 2° angle on the squish band. I'm not convinced that it's necessary though. All the newest saws I build are square.....I wonder what these engineers have discovered now?????
> 
> I cut a few twists then check my progress by rechecking squish. It's not an extremely fast way to do it but I would be willing to bet it's faster than setup on my lathe would be. It leaves some chatter marks that sand out easily using the same mandrel with 80 grit on it.
> 
> ...



I think the taper helps. If you do some reading, some experts say that 2 strokes need 2-4° more then what the piston dome is. It helps direct combustion to the center and away from the squish band, equaling more complete combustion.


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 15, 2012)

tlandrum said:


> hey randy my name is terry and i think we suffer from the same affliction. is there any hope for us?



No a chance..... :msp_mellow:



parrisw said:


> *I think the taper helps.* If you do some reading, some experts say that 2 strokes need 2-4° more then what the piston dome is. It helps direct combustion to the center and away from the squish band, equaling more complete combustion.



Prove it. :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Bowtie (Feb 15, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I don't think you were this excited when you bought your 064 from Lakeside:biggrin:



Tossup there Brad. CAD was new and super fun then. But, this is a new 460 and I really wanted a new saw with that kinda power in a lighter package and I think this will fit that bill nicely. Oh hell, yep I am stoked on this one.


----------



## bryanr2 (Feb 15, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> My name is Randy....and I'm a CAD victim!!!!! :biggrin:



Funny stuff- think I read one of your post that said all your saws are for sale- followed by a list of model #s. If one is willing to part with them- do they have CAD really?:msp_confused: And noone suffers or is a victim to CAD.  It is an enlightened state of mind that allows you to share your love equally amongst your saws- the ones you have, the ones on your wish list, and the ones you are actively looking for at any given moment.


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 15, 2012)

Bowtie said:


> Tossup there Brad. CAD was new and super fun then. But, this is a new 460 and I really wanted a new saw with that kinda power in a lighter package and I think this will fit that bill nicely. Oh hell, yep I am stoked on this one.



But an Oh64 is only 1 OZ heavier.


----------



## Bowtie (Feb 15, 2012)

What did you decide to do with the intake port?


----------



## Bowtie (Feb 15, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> But an Oh64 is only 1 OZ heavier.



Have you scaled them?


----------



## Smittysrepair (Feb 15, 2012)

tlandrum said:


> hey randy my name is terry and i think we suffer from the same affliction. is there any hope for us?



I am willing to bet that if they come out with a drug to cure it, all of our wives will buy it and none of us will be willing to take it!


----------



## RiverRat2 (Feb 15, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> The cutter was cutting all the way out. The edge you are seeing is where the sandpaper didn't go all the way out when I did the clean up. It might be .002 - .003 high......much less than the squish area. So I can't see it being an issue.



yeah if thats all it is it should be of no consequence,,, Cool thread,,, thanks for posting,,, is that delrin round stock a type of nylon compound? is it expensive??


----------



## mopar1rules (Feb 15, 2012)

What is the D-shaped 046 cylinders that you guys speak of? Also, nice clean work mastermind.


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 15, 2012)

Bowtie said:


> What did you decide to do with the intake port?



It's all done. I just like polishing and beveling a bit more. 

Timing numbers ended up (My notes are in the shop so I could be off a degree or two)

Exhaust: 101° ATDC
Transfers: 118° ATDC
Intake: 79° ATDC 

Or......in duration speak. 

Exhaust: 158°
Blowdown: 17°
Intake: 158°


----------



## wigglesworth (Feb 15, 2012)

mopar1rules said:


> What is the D-shaped 046 cylinders that you guys speak of? Also, nice clean work mastermind.


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 15, 2012)

Bowtie said:


> Have you scaled them?



Yes Sir......I have. :msp_thumbup:



RiverRat2 said:


> yeah if thats all it is it should be of no consequence,,, Cool thread,,, thanks for posting,,, is that delrin round stock a type of nylon compound? is it expensive??



Delrin is a Dupont material. I get it from an ebay seller.......

I did check it's specs for machineability...etc. Good stuff.


----------



## wigglesworth (Feb 15, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Exhaust: 101° ATDC
> Transfers: 118° ATDC
> Intake: 79° ATDC



Yep....

That should do it


----------



## Bowtie (Feb 15, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Yes Sir......I have. :msp_thumbup:



I better quit looking at the model badges when I pick them up, LOL! (I have not scaled either, I dont even own a scale that measures that high) 

I think I used delrin kingpins in my old twin I beam ford years ago?


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 15, 2012)

wigglesworth said:


> Yep....
> 
> That should do it



I'm glad you approve. After all those are per your recommendation.


----------



## RiverRat2 (Feb 15, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Yes Sir......I have. :msp_thumbup:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah that plant where its made is about 12 miles SE from my house... let me do some checking tomorrow,,, I may be able to beat his price by getting larger blanks that are culls but will turn down fine for our use,,,, my buddys machine shop does alot of their hypercompressor components specialty work,,,, interesting,,,,, this is cool,,,, back in my early piston ported 100cc kart racing days we used a slightly modified piston crown w/the skirts cut off just below the wristpin boss,,, I beleive we had the cutter inbedded in the deck of the piston to cut the chambers the same way and did imention we used lots & lots of sandpaper,,, :msp_thumbup:


----------



## parrisw (Feb 16, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> No a chance..... :msp_mellow:
> 
> 
> 
> Prove it. :hmm3grin2orange:



MEH!!! You disbeliever, you just don't want to go to the hassle of setting it up!! :hmm3grin2orange: I read it in many places, and makes sense to me. I'll continue to do it, but you do what you think is right for your saws. I'm not saying square is bad, just saying taper is better!


----------



## deye223 (Feb 16, 2012)

tlandrum said:


> hey randy my name is terry and i think we suffer from the same affliction. is there any hope for us?



yep go buy another saw i did and it works for me i should be rite now for a year mmm 6 months well 3 any way :surrender:


----------



## Stihlman441 (Feb 16, 2012)

Hi there Randy
Myself and afew others would like to watch the 441CMTronic build please.:biggrinbounce2:


----------



## deye223 (Feb 16, 2012)

Stihlman441 said:


> Hi there Randy
> Myself and afew others would like to watch the 441CMTronic build please.:biggrinbounce2:



well send him some money HAHA


----------



## bryanr2 (Feb 16, 2012)

deye223 said:


> well send him some money HAHA



and a saw. Nothing like watching your own saw get the works.


----------



## deye223 (Feb 16, 2012)

all i sent him was money


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 16, 2012)

parrisw said:


> MEH!!! You disbeliever, you just don't want to go to the hassle of setting it up!! :hmm3grin2orange: I read it in many places, and makes sense to me. I'll continue to do it, but you do what you think is right for your saws. I'm not saying square is bad, just saying taper is better!



HaHaHaHaHa....... You get the idea. lol 

I'm sure on a motorcycle or even a really hot race saw it would matter. These saw engines are a primitive beast for sure. :msp_unsure:

Besides.......it would cost me hard earned compression. :msp_ohmy:


I could cut the insert on a 2 degree angle when I grind the cutting angle...........



Stihlman441 said:


> Hi there Randy
> Myself and a few others would like to watch the 441CMTronic build please.:biggrinbounce2:



Believe me when I tell you that build will be well documented on AS. 



Orville5755 said:


> Nice Randy. How did ya set up the cylinder to cut it?



I cut it by hand........ :msp_wink:



deye223 said:


> all i sent him was money



Wanna buy a 562XP?????? :msp_tongue:


----------



## deye223 (Feb 16, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Wanna buy a 562XP?????? :msp_tongue:[/QUOTE
> 
> tempting but the 261 ain't here yet feeding cad is a good thing but i don't want too OD


----------



## MacLaren (Feb 16, 2012)

deye223 said:


> Mastermind said:
> 
> 
> > Wanna buy a 562XP?????? :msp_tongue:[/QUOTE
> ...


----------



## MacLaren (Feb 16, 2012)

Great thread Randy. Thats some really good lookin work. 

Sent from my MB855 using Tapatalk


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 16, 2012)

OD? Lol, that's a good one. I guess I haven't ODd yet, but I'm sure a hard core addict!


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 16, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> OD? Lol, that's a good one. I guess I haven't ODd yet, but *I'm sure a hard core addict!*




Yes you are my friend.........repeat after me...... "I'm powerless over my addiction".......

:msp_tongue:


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 16, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Yes you are my friend.........repeat after me...... "I'm powerless over my addiction".......
> 
> :msp_tongue:



CAD's a beautiful thing. Yesterday I got a new 36" Stihl Light bar, and tomorrow I get a 32" Tsumura light bar


----------



## wendell (Feb 16, 2012)

MacLaren said:


> Sent from my MB855 using Tapatalk





MacLaren said:


> Sent from my MB855 using Tapatalk



Paul, turn off your signature in your Tapatalk settings. You're giving me a headache! :help:


----------



## woodgrenade (Feb 16, 2012)

Another great thread Randy. Subscribed!


----------



## Bowtie (Feb 16, 2012)

I cant wait for the vid on this baby!


----------



## mdavlee (Feb 16, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> CAD's a beautiful thing. Yesterday I got a new 36" Stihl Light bar, and tomorrow I get a 32" Tsumura light bar



I got a tach and 2 stihl light bars today. I got the 066 back together too.


----------



## wendell (Feb 16, 2012)

I didn't get nothin'.


----------



## Bowtie (Feb 16, 2012)

mdavlee said:


> I got a tach and 2 stihl light bars today. I got the 066 back together too.



Glad someone had a good day. My old propane furnace has been giving me trouble and Im done working on it. 5000-6500 to have central air put in, but I gotta do it. Then the F-550 service truck I drive(my toolbox on wheels) started blowing smoke out the exhaust and overheated in the middle of BFE. Gonna cost 2200 to replace the egr cooler, oil cooler, and high pressure line. I really hate the 6.0 Powerjoke Ford engines...


----------



## sgrizz (Feb 16, 2012)

wendell said:


> I didn't get nothin'.



There is always tomorrow:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 16, 2012)

mdavlee said:


> I got a tach and 2 stihl light bars today. I got the 066 back together too.



Is it running yet?


----------



## mdavlee (Feb 16, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Is it running yet?



Yep got a video on youtube already.


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 16, 2012)

The saw is finished. I gonna wait until tomorrow to run it much so the new paint on the muffler and cover can cure. I did fire it up though (I had to of course).....

Some more pics....

The left side is untouched at this point....the right has more to go.







Fresh outta the ultrasonic bath.






195 PSI That's what we wanted. 






I had to complete the muffler modd. I couldn't fit my port inside that baffle.


----------



## Bowtie (Feb 16, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> 195 PSI That's what we wanted.
> 
> 195? Does that mean I should consider using the decomp?


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 16, 2012)

More pics.....

That's better. 






And ever better. 











This is up for bids.......Ginuwine Stihl Swarf......


----------



## jbighump (Feb 16, 2012)

at 195lbs it may bite ya:hmm3grin2orange: nice work as always randy


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 16, 2012)

Bowtie said:


> 195? Does that mean I should consider using the decomp?



I never do......

It'll probably come down a little because of the assembly oil in the bore when I checked it. I would be running 93 and Belray H1R if it was my saw though.


----------



## Bowtie (Feb 16, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> More pics.....
> 
> That's better.
> 
> ...



Im interested in the torx driver!!! :hmm3grin2orange:

I have a Wiha that works awesome. Love that DP cover!


----------



## gcsupraman (Feb 16, 2012)

Bowtie said:


> Im interested in the torx driver!!! :hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> I have a Wiha that works awesome. Love that DP cover!



Your welcome for my cover


----------



## wendell (Feb 16, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> This is up for bids.......Ginuwine Stihl Swarf......



It's Stihl?!?

I'll give ya $100!!


I'll be able to double my money on eBay!! :msp_thumbsup:


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 16, 2012)

Bowtie said:


> Im interested in the torx driver!!! :hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> I have a Wiha that works awesome. Love that DP cover!



Those drivers are less than 10.00 at the Stihl dealer. 



gcsupraman said:


> Your welcome for my cover



Nope. That's not your cover. I had one that I had already modded so I just painted it and......


----------



## Bowtie (Feb 16, 2012)

What do you think about 110 and HP Ultra?


----------



## Stihlman441 (Feb 16, 2012)

Looking good Randy
What sort of paint do you use on the muff ?, i would prefer a matt black but thats only me.:cool2:


----------



## gcsupraman (Feb 16, 2012)

Bowtie said:


> Im interested in the torx driver!!! :hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> I have a Wiha that works awesome. Love that DP cover!



Bowtie, that is a nice looking muffler mod your getting!!


----------



## young (Feb 16, 2012)

starting the bidding at 5€ for the stihl super awesome metal shavings.:biggrin:


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 16, 2012)

Bowtie said:


> What do you think about 110 and HP Ultra?



Too much octane doesn't really seem to help in a saw engine from what I've seen. Wiggs tried the 110 and told me that 93 made more power.....I'm not sure why but I do have a theory. 



Stihlman441 said:


> Looking good Randy
> What sort of paint do you use on the muff ?, i would prefer a matt black but thats only me.:cool2:



It's a BBQ grill paint that does end up much flatter as it cures.

Here's a cool picture for you guys....This is what I've been doing and a couple that are in the works....


----------



## deye223 (Feb 16, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Too much octane doesn't really seem to help in a saw engine from what I've seen. Wiggs tried the 110 and told me that 93 made more power.....I'm not sure why but I do have a theory.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



is that another 261 on the right if so what did it have done :msp_unsure:


----------



## Dan_IN_MN (Feb 16, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> CAD's a beautiful thing. Yesterday I got a new 36" Stihl Light bar, and tomorrow I get a 32" Tsumura light bar



S shape Not INCLUDED?:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## young (Feb 16, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Too much octane doesn't really seem to help in a saw engine from what I've seen. Wiggs tried the 110 and told me that 93 made more power.....I'm not sure why but I do have a theory.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



440 and 460. sweet.


----------



## Bowtie (Feb 16, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Too much octane doesn't really seem to help in a saw engine from what I've seen. Wiggs tried the 110 and told me that 93 made more power.....I'm not sure why but I do have a theory.



I believe I understand that as well. I just got off the phone with a race engine builder trying to find the right stuff. I dont want to go overboard, but I will go to lengths to find better fuel. Highest pump gas here anymore is 91, and I cant say that it doesnt have ethanol honestly. 110 is way more than necessary, but finding a happy medium is what I am looking for.

I have been using 91 so far. OK Enough gas talk, love that lineup of saws in that pic!


----------



## wyk (Feb 16, 2012)

Nice work, bud. Looking forwards to the vid!

That compression gauge musta cost a bundle. Proto makes quality tools.


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 16, 2012)

deye223 said:


> is that another 261 on the right if so what did it have done :msp_unsure:




Yep that's another 261. It's gonna get the same treatment yours did. :msp_thumbup:


----------



## wigglesworth (Feb 16, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> 195 PSI That's what we wanted.



Kewl.


----------



## gcsupraman (Feb 16, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I never do......
> 
> It'll probably come down a little because of the assembly oil in the bore when I checked it. I would be running 93 and Belray H1R if it was my saw though.



Randy,

Can you please elaborate (for my simple mind) on how the compression changes as the saw breaks in.

Typically when I install new rings in a saw I see a 20+ point spike in compression once I run the saw for awhile - how do you determine what you "final" compression will be since the saw is so brand spakin' new?

-Greg


----------



## Bowtie (Feb 16, 2012)

That tired, worn out old gal oughtta be able to spin a 25" with an 8 pin now I would reckon.


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 16, 2012)

gcsupraman said:


> Randy,
> 
> Can you please elaborate (for my simple mind) on how the compression changes as the saw breaks in.
> 
> ...



As the rings become lapped in they seal tighter to the bore. That's what makes the compression climb as the saw breaks in.

I checked this saw with the oil still in the bore from assembly. It will probably check at 185psi if I check it after running a few minutes and letting it cool. I realize that when it seals after break in it could climb some...that's why I check it with oil in the bore (to assure a tight seal).


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 16, 2012)

Bowtie said:


> That tired, worn out old gal oughtta be able to spin a 25" with an 8 pin now I would reckon.



I run mine with an 8 pin up to a 28" bar. I like it like that with a sharp chain. A ham handed feller would probably bog it though. :msp_wink:


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 16, 2012)

My favorite fuel is VP SEF94. Unfortunately, I don't have a good source for it and it's quite expensive.


----------



## deye223 (Feb 16, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Yep that's another 261. It's gonna get the same treatment yours did. :msp_thumbup:



at least you can do it in one go :msp_thumbsup:


----------



## MacLaren (Feb 16, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> My favorite fuel is VP SEF94. Unfortunately, I don't have a good source for it and it's quite expensive.



Yes. Great stuff, but very $$$ as you say Brad.


----------



## Bowtie (Feb 16, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I run mine with an 8 pin up to a 28" bar. I like it like that with a sharp chain. A ham handed feller would probably bog it though. :msp_wink:



Cool. Im not the most organized feller in the herd, but I treat my tools and equipment very well. I dont lean on chainsaws, unless testing to where it will go, ya know... Sharp chains are my friend, I spend a lot of time on chains. Im a sloww filer, lol!


----------



## gcsupraman (Feb 16, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I checked this saw with the oil still in the bore from assembly. It will probably check at 185psi if I check it after running a few minutes and letting it cool. I realize that when it seals after break in it could climb some...that's why I check it with oil in the bore (to assure a tight seal).



So basically you offset the projected climb in compression with the oil.

Thanks for the explanation and another great thread :msp_thumbsup:


----------



## Bowtie (Feb 16, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> My favorite fuel is VP SEF94. Unfortunately, I don't have a good source for it and it's quite expensive.



Do they have a minimum quantity? That is one problem I face here. If you dont mind me asking, what is it per gallon?


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 16, 2012)

I don't recall the price. You can buy it in 5 gallon pails.


----------



## booger1286 (Feb 16, 2012)

Awesome work! I think it is getting better and better. Anxious for video.


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 16, 2012)

gcsupraman said:


> So basically you offset the projected climb in compression with the oil.
> 
> Thanks for the explanation and another great thread :msp_thumbsup:



At least I hope that it works out that way.

On my 460 It was just shy of 200psi with oil in the bore. After about 50 tanks of fuel it's at 190....


----------



## wyk (Feb 16, 2012)

SEF 94

http://www.vpracingfuels.com/sef-small-engine


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 16, 2012)

booger1286 said:


> Awesome work! I think it is getting better and better. Anxious for video.



Thanks man. I wanted it to turn out real well for Jason. He's very proud of his saw and I felt honored that he allowed me to do this for him.


----------



## Bowtie (Feb 17, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> At least I hope that it works out that way.
> 
> On my 460 It was just shy of 200psi with oil in the bore. After about 50 tanks of fuel it's at 190....


That is impressive! I wont be disappointed if yours is much faster, at least I wont admit to it...:msp_scared:


----------



## Bowtie (Feb 17, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Thanks man. I wanted it to turn out real well for Jason. He's very proud of his saw and I felt honored that he allowed me to do this for him.



Likewise, Randy. Im glad you accepted the job. My only problem is deciding which saw to send next.


----------



## wigglesworth (Feb 17, 2012)

Although some claim it makes less power, I used to run 100LL from the local airport, and it performed fantastic in my saws. I could tell no noticible power decrease, or increase for that matter, but it has an unbelievible shelf life. Its about 1/2 price of "race fuels". To be honest, the only reason I stopped using it, was I found a non-ethonol gas station.


----------



## Bowtie (Feb 17, 2012)

wigglesworth said:


> Although some claim it makes less power, I used to run 100LL from the local airport, and it performed fantastic in my saws. I could tell no noticible power decrease, or increase for that matter, but it has an unbelievible shelf life. Its about 1/2 price of "race fuels". To be honest, the only reason I stopped using it, was I found a non-ethonol gas station.



100LL was one option I was looking at. Thanks for the info Wiggs!


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 17, 2012)

wigglesworth said:


> Although some claim it makes less power, I used to run 100LL from the local airport, and it performed fantastic in my saws. I could tell no noticible power decrease, or increase for that matter, but *it has an unbelievible shelf life*. Its about 1/2 price of "race fuels". To be honest, the only reason I stopped using it, was I found a non-ethonol gas station.



How much does it cost J?

That's something I would be very interested in.


----------



## wigglesworth (Feb 17, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> How much does it cost J?
> 
> That's something I would be very interested in.



Its been 2 years since I bought any, but it was under $4 a gallon. Im sure its $5 or more by now.


----------



## Bowtie (Feb 17, 2012)

wigglesworth said:


> Its been 2 years since I bought any, but it was under $4 a gallon. Im sure its $5 or more by now.



Hell pump gas may cost that by summer. My quote for 110 purple was 8$ gallon.


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 17, 2012)

wigglesworth said:


> Its been 2 years since I bought any, but it was under $4 a gallon. Im sure its $5 or more by now.



It would be worth every penny for me to be able to get 10 gallons or so and have it on hand. It's a day behind and 50 miles from nowhere here.


----------



## Bowtie (Feb 17, 2012)

Love the smell of high octane burnt fuel. Reminds me of the racing days. Oh well Daytona starts saturday night!


----------



## srcarr52 (Feb 17, 2012)

Bowtie said:


> Love the smell of high octane burnt fuel. Reminds me of the racing days. Oh well Daytona starts saturday night!



Burnt Klots oil reminds me of the old snowmobile drag days. You can smell that stuff anywhere. I had some left over so I mixed a few gallons for my broke in saws a few years ago and my friend recognized it right away when we were cutting firewood. We probably spent 15 minutes just reminiscing about my old race sleds that I tried to trail ride and all the major crashes I had over the years. It was a lot of fun but my body just can't take that kind of beating anymore. I now do more suspension mods then engine mods.


----------



## wigglesworth (Feb 17, 2012)

srcarr52 said:


> Burnt Klots oil reminds me of the old snowmobile drag days. You can smell that stuff anywhere. I had some left over so I mixed a few gallons for my broke in saws a few years ago and my friend recognized it right away when we were cutting firewood. We probably spent 15 minutes just reminiscing about my old race sleds that I tried to trail ride and all the major crashes I had over the years. It was a lot of fun but my body just can't take that kind of beating anymore. I now do more suspension mods then engine mods.



Im running some klotz in my mix right now. I hate it. Leaves some nasty, nasty carbon/plasticy junk on the piston crown and chamber. Smells great though...


----------



## srcarr52 (Feb 17, 2012)

wigglesworth said:


> Im running some klotz in my mix right now. I hate it. Leaves some nasty, nasty carbon/plasticy junk on the piston crown and chamber. Smells great though...



Which formula? Klots makes a few different ones and only a couple are good for premix.


----------



## Scandy14 (Feb 17, 2012)

Bowtie said:


> Glad someone had a good day. My old propane furnace has been giving me trouble and Im done working on it. 5000-6500 to have central air put in, but I gotta do it. Then the F-550 service truck I drive(my toolbox on wheels) started blowing smoke out the exhaust and overheated in the middle of BFE. Gonna cost 2200 to replace the egr cooler, oil cooler, and high pressure line. I really hate the 6.0 Powerjoke Ford engines...



Do the EGR delete and you'll be better off. Lot of info on this on the net.


----------



## mopar1rules (Feb 17, 2012)

wigglesworth said:


> Im running some klotz in my mix right now. I hate it. Leaves some nasty, nasty carbon/plasticy junk on the piston crown and chamber. Smells great though...



Yeah, klotz (or klogz as i like to call it) has some castor and benol oil in there mixs i believe and that makes for a great lubricant, but a dirty burning one as well. I personally don't care for the belray stuff and personally use amsoil dominator in all of my saws and my banshee atv.

Forgot to add that my 034 seems to run the best with 91 and 93 oct versus 110 race fuel. The reason for this is this saw doesn't have that high of compression or timing that advanced, to require a fuel that burns slower and cooler.

Forgot to ask if the "d-shaped" cylinders had more compression than the regular 460 cylinders?


----------



## Bowtie (Feb 17, 2012)

VID!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The suspense is killing me!!!!!


----------



## ChainsawmanXX (Feb 17, 2012)

opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:


----------



## cowroy (Feb 17, 2012)

opcorn:


----------



## wendell (Feb 17, 2012)

ChainsawmanXX said:


> opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:





cowroy said:


> opcorn:



oop:


----------



## jbighump (Feb 17, 2012)

Bowtie said:


> VID!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The suspense is killing me!!!!!



me too ive been checking in all day


----------



## parrisw (Feb 17, 2012)

That Randy is such a tease.


----------



## Bowtie (Feb 17, 2012)

Scandy14 said:


> Do the EGR delete and you'll be better off. Lot of info on this on the net.



I cant. No emissions in Kansas, but truck is subject to be sold where emissions is required. Company policy.


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 17, 2012)

Bowtie said:


> VID!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The suspense is killing me!!!!!



Very sorry for the delay. I made two videos in a nice sized oak I dropped. The tree was dying and losing limbs on my chicken lot so we dropped it with an old (but minty) Husqvarna 61 I have. 

Well I started to upload them earlier and my crappy DSL connection kept dropping out. 

It working much better now so They are uploading. In the first video the saw was tuned to 14200 when I started cutting. It seemed a bit too lean to my hear after several cuts so I rechecked it and it was turning 14600. I fattened it back to 14200 and videoed a few more cuts. The chain has the rakers at .035 so you'll notice it being a bit grabby. The saw is very strong, and after these cuts I fattened it up a tad more and found it liked the fuel.....it seems strongest at 14000.


----------



## parrisw (Feb 17, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Very sorry for the delay. I made two videos in a nice sized oak I dropped. The tree was dying and losing limbs on my chicken lot so we dropped it with an old (but minty) Husqvarna 61 I have.
> 
> Well I started to upload them earlier and my crappy DSL connection kept dropping out.
> 
> It working much better now so They are uploading. In the first video the saw was tuned to 14200 when I started cutting. It seemed a bit too lean to my hear after several cuts so I rechecked it and it was turning 14600. I fattened it back to 14200 and videoed a few more cuts. The chain has the rakers at .035 so you'll notice it being a bit grabby. The saw is very strong, and after these cuts I fattened it up a tad more and found it liked the fuel.....it seems strongest at 14000.



Nice Randy. I find most saws like a little more fuel, and I feel better.


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 17, 2012)

Here we go.....I'll drag a chunk of this oak out to the bench tomorrow and run it against my 460.

[video=youtube;3K2_Y4hvk5c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3K2_Y4hvk5c[/video]


----------



## parrisw (Feb 17, 2012)

Sounds good for a Stihl. :hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 17, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Sounds good for a Stihl. :hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:



Where's that "dislike" button when you need it????


----------



## parrisw (Feb 17, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Where's that "dislike" button when you need it????



LOL, I know EH!


----------



## parrisw (Feb 17, 2012)

I had a 046mag, and sold it. But man it was a really great running saw for stock, it really did impress.


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 17, 2012)

A little fatter here.

[video=youtube;oChJ228Pfp0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oChJ228Pfp0[/video]


----------



## wendell (Feb 17, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Sounds good for a Stihl. :hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:



Was that a Stihl? I thought it sounded like that new Oregon electric.


----------



## parrisw (Feb 17, 2012)

Cool, that does sound better. Did I once tell ya I HATE Grabby chains?


----------



## RichardGrayJr (Feb 17, 2012)

Monster.


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 17, 2012)

parrisw said:


> I had a 046mag, and sold it. But man it was a really great running saw for stock, it really did impress.



Believe me Will I understand the desire for a quad port Husky. I have a 372XP under the bench of my own.....just need some time to work on it.


----------



## deye223 (Feb 17, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Cool, that does sound better. Did I once tell ya I HATE Grabby chains?



i was gunna say the rackers sound a tad low


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 17, 2012)

wendell said:


> Was that a Stihl? I thought it sounded like that new Oregon electric.



Meh



parrisw said:


> Cool, that does sound better. Did I once tell ya I HATE Grabby chains?



I hate em too. This one was a mistake. Jon used the grinder to set the rakers......too low.



RichardGrayJr said:


> Monster.



Just wait for it to get broke in.


----------



## parrisw (Feb 17, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Believe me Will I understand the desire for a quad port Husky. I have a 372XP under the bench of my own.....just need some time to work on it.



I hear ya about the time issue. You really need a quad port. I just love them dang things. 



Mastermind said:


> I hate em too. This one was a mistake. Jon used the grinder to set the rakers......too low.
> 
> 
> 
> Just wait for it to get broke in.



Yup, I've farked up a few raker settings using the grinder. I hand file all my raker settings now.


----------



## chainsaw kid (Feb 17, 2012)

Nice thread as usual. Thanks again for your time.

Kevin


----------



## showrguy (Feb 17, 2012)

the safety police should be along any time now....glad to see yer still alive randy, lol, !!!!!!!!!
nice saw, sounds sweet ...even with the aggressive chain..


----------



## Bowtie (Feb 18, 2012)

Thats what I get for going to bed early. Not only can I not sleep @ 2:30 am, I cant watch the vid with sound until morning when the kids wake up! I could go sit in the truck! :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Bowtie (Feb 18, 2012)

In those videos were you using a 7 or 8 pin rim?


----------



## mweba (Feb 18, 2012)

Bowtie said:


> Thats what I get for going to bed early. Not only can I not sleep @ 2:30 am, I cant watch the vid with sound until morning when the kids wake up! I could go sit in the truck! :hmm3grin2orange:



Rofl


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 18, 2012)

Bowtie said:


> In those videos were you using a 7 or 8 pin rim?



It's running a 7 in those videos. That chain was really too aggressive.


----------



## Bowtie (Feb 18, 2012)

Did my 460 even compare? LOL!


----------



## Stihlman441 (Feb 18, 2012)

Sounding good there Randy,can ya get 30 mins out of a tank.


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 18, 2012)

Bowtie said:


> Did my 460 even compare? LOL!



I have videos uploading now. Your saw hung right with mine.  I think mine was about a half second ahead in the first cut but a tie in the second. 



Stihlman441 said:


> Sounding good there Randy,can ya get 30 mins out of a tank.



Welp a modded 460 is a thirsty SOB.


----------



## Bowtie (Feb 18, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I have videos uploading now. Your saw hung right with mine.  I think mine was about a half second ahead in the first cut but a tie in the second.
> 
> 
> 
> Welp a modded 460 is a thirsty SOB.



From I have heard about yours, If mine even competed, Im happy as a pig in a woller!


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 18, 2012)

Bowtie said:


> From I have heard about yours, If mine even competed, Im happy as a pig in a woller!



Well see for yourself..... 

[video=youtube;emESm-LdJ9c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emESm-LdJ9c[/video]


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 18, 2012)

[video=youtube;7gr5P5S9QjE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gr5P5S9QjE[/video]


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 18, 2012)

Just to show how well the first two saws were pulling....


[video=youtube;AYlCEI8qHao]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYlCEI8qHao[/video]


----------



## komatsuvarna (Feb 18, 2012)

Them Stihls look real good Randy! 


We need to get together and saw one weekend day....


----------



## mdavlee (Feb 18, 2012)

komatsuvarna said:


> Them Stihls look real good Randy!
> 
> 
> We need to get together and saw one weekend day....



Don't forget about me and preston too.


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 18, 2012)

komatsuvarna said:


> Them Stihls look real good Randy!
> 
> 
> We need to get together and saw one weekend day....





mdavlee said:


> Don't forget about me and preston too.



I'm so covered up with work that I can't do anything much at the moment. We did get to get in the sweatlodge this evening though. I needed a good sweat.

Michael are you coming up one day this week? I'll have some of the oak we came saw up....


----------



## deye223 (Feb 18, 2012)

his 12.75

yours 12.5

husky 20.5 these are approximate only


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 18, 2012)

Hey Randy, those look almost as strong as the Mission Backpack raffle saw:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 18, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Hey Randy, those look almost as strong as the Mission Backpack raffle saw:hmm3grin2orange:



You talking about that saw mine beat in Build-Off last year?


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 18, 2012)

deye223 said:


> his 12.75
> 
> yours 12.5
> 
> husky 20.5 these are approximate only



That's about the way Jon and I timed them earlier. I'm real happy about the way Jason's saw turned out. I just hope he likes it. 

I'm working on a nearly new 440 right now. I cut the squish band in it too.


----------



## deye223 (Feb 18, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> That's about the way Jon and I timed them earlier. I'm real happy about the way Jason's saw turned out. I just hope he likes it.
> 
> I'm working on a nearly new 440 right now. I cut the squish band in it too.



if some one send's you a 441 cm i'll be watching that like a hawk


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 18, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> You talking about that saw mine beat in Build-Off last year?



Which couldn't be duplicated as I repeatedly beat yours:greenchainsaw: Just sayin'


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 18, 2012)

*Touché!!!*


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 18, 2012)

deye223 said:


> if some one send's you a 441 cm i'll be watching that like a hawk



There's one on the way. 



blsnelling said:


> Which couldn't be duplicated as I repeatedly beat yours:greenchainsaw: Just sayin'



Yeah.....the wood was getting smaller and softer evidently. :biggrin:


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 18, 2012)

So, what's your favorite saw to mod at this point? I'm still partial to the 460, although I love the 346, 372, and 385/390.


----------



## gcsupraman (Feb 18, 2012)

deye223 said:


> if some one send's you a 441 cm i'll be watching that like a hawk





Tracking number:
03113260000176423911
Expected Delivery By:
February 22, 2012

Processed at USPS Origin Sort Facility
February 17, 2012, 7:54 pm
JERSEY CITY, NJ 07097

Dispatched to Sort Facility
February 16, 2012, 5:01 pm
HAWLEYVILLE, CT 06440 

Acceptance
February 16, 2012, 10:53 am
HAWLEYVILLE, CT 06440


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 18, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> So, what's your favorite saw to mod at this point? I'm still partial to the 460, although I love the 346, 372, and 385/390.



The 562XP is my favorite at this point. With a nip here and a snip there they become really surprising saws.

The Stihls are next.


----------



## blsnelling (Feb 18, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> The 562XP is my favorite at this point. With a nip here and a snip there they become really surprising saws.
> 
> The Stihls are next.



I'm surprised. I just turned down modding one. I actually sent him your way In the past, I always jumped at messing around with a new model. I just don't have that kind of time anymore.


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 18, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I'm surprised. I just turned down modding one. I actually sent him your way In the past, I always jumped at messing around with a new model. I just don't have that kind of time anymore.



I done two so far with the second being a little hotter. They have such a large amount of intake area available that very little is needed on the side. The base gasket is .030 thick and the squish is good with the gasket installed. By pulling the gasket and doing a popup the intake and strato timing is very close to where you want it. A little blending on the transfers and intake tracts.....raise and widen the exhaust and WOW.


----------



## Bowtie (Feb 19, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> That's about the way Jon and I timed them earlier. I'm real happy about the way Jason's saw turned out. I just hope he likes it.
> 
> I'm working on a nearly new 440 right now. I cut the squish band in it too.



If you like it man, I like it.


----------



## gcdible1 (Feb 19, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> CAD's a beautiful thing. Yesterday I got a new 36" Stihl Light bar, and tomorrow I get a 32" Tsumura light bar



Would this be to replace the 32" you bent during your incident? Wicked video by the way, glad you made it out with your brain still intact...


----------



## Jon1212 (Feb 19, 2012)

gcdible1 said:


> Would this be to replace the 32" you bent during your incident? Wicked video by the way, glad you made it out* with your brain still intact*...



Allegedly...............................Just funnin' ya' Brad. That looked really scary, and I'm glad you are here to tell us what you should have done.

Randy I'm surprised my MS 390 doesn't get more consideration for your favorite saw you've ported.......LOL!!!! That thread was at least 29 pages.

I got to run that Husky 261.99 you fixed up.........Man that saw is crazy for 61cc's.........Thanks for the great job.


----------



## Whiteman (Feb 19, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> So, what's your favorite saw to mod at this point? I'm still partial to the 460, although I love the 346, 372, and 385/390.



You know inside that you really are a Husky guy, right? I now pronounce you............ converted.


----------



## mdavlee (Feb 19, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I'm so covered up with work that I can't do anything much at the moment. We did get to get in the sweatlodge this evening though. I needed a good sweat.
> 
> Michael are you coming up one day this week? I'll have some of the oak we came saw up....



Randy I plan on it. Whatever day is best for you. I think Paul is going to cut a little on monday so I hope to go up there and run the 555 beside a 562. I would think wednesday or so would be about when I'll be ready to head that way.


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 19, 2012)

Bowtie said:


> If you like it man, I like it.



I like it a lot!!!



Jon1212 said:


> Allegedly...............................Just funnin' ya' Brad. That looked really scary, and I'm glad you are here to tell us what you should have done.
> 
> Randy I'm surprised my MS 390 doesn't get more consideration for your favorite saw you've ported.......LOL!!!! That thread was at least 29 pages.
> 
> I got to run that Husky 261.99 you fixed up.........Man that saw is crazy for 61cc's.........Thanks for the great job.



The saw was in very good shape Jon. You did good picking that one up from atvguns...:msp_thumbup:



Whiteman said:


> You know inside that you really are a Husky guy, right? I now pronounce you............ converted.



I have to be very careful myself. The quad port transfers in some Huskys make for a damn strong running saw.........easy to start drinking the orange kool-aid. :msp_sneaky:



mdavlee said:


> Randy I plan on it. Whatever day is best for you. I think Paul is going to cut a little on monday so I hope to go up there and run the 555 beside a 562. I would think wednesday or so would be about when I'll be ready to head that way.



That sounds good to me. I just hope you realize that I live in BFE......ain't no Starbucks around here. :cool2:


----------



## komatsuvarna (Feb 19, 2012)

Randy, You have a mandrel and cutter made up yet for the 346s?


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 19, 2012)

komatsuvarna said:


> Randy, You have a mandrel and cutter made up yet for the 346s?



I can make one pretty damn quick.....:msp_thumbup:


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 19, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I can make one pretty damn quick.....:msp_thumbup:



Although I really don't understand the hype about cutting the squish band. It makes the exhaust port have to be raised much more than if a popup is used. After machining a popup less is needed to put the timing numbers where I want them. On a D-shaped combustion chamber like the MS440 I just built it's the best approach IMHO though...


----------



## Jacob J. (Feb 19, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Although I really don't understand the hype about cutting the squish band. It makes the exhaust port have to be raised much more than if a popup is used. After machining a popup less is needed to put the timing numbers where I want them. On a D-shaped combustion chamber like the MS440 I just built it's the best approach IMHO though...



I think it's probably more applicable to the cylinders with odd combustion chambers or if a guy is using a taller piston. 
If you're working on an engine that needs a lot more blow down, then it's a good thing too.


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 19, 2012)

Jacob J. said:


> I think it's probably more applicable to the cylinders with odd combustion chambers or if a guy is using a taller piston.
> If you're working on an engine that needs a lot more blow down, then it's a good thing too.



I quickly saw the need for a popup after building only a few saws. It's not possible to raise the exhaust port without offsetting the loss of compression. 

Most guys mention being able to replace the piston with a stock, outta the box piston if the need arises. If I damage a piston there's a damn good chance that the jug will be toast as well. Add the that......I'll never use a saw enough to wear out a piston considering how many saws I own. 

Needless to say I still like my popup pistons.....but I can build a saw either way.


----------



## wigglesworth (Feb 19, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Needless to say I still like my popup pistons.....but I can build a saw either way.



Ahhheeeemmmmm......


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 19, 2012)

wigglesworth said:


> Ahhheeeemmmmm......



That's _exactly_ what I'm talkin about!!!! :msp_thumbup:


----------



## Jacob J. (Feb 19, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I quickly saw the need for a popup after building only a few saws. It's not possible to raise the exhaust port without offsetting the loss of compression.
> 
> Most guys mention being able to replace the piston with a stock, outta the box piston if the need arises. If I damage a piston there's a damn good chance that the jug will be toast as well. Add the that......I'll never use a saw enough to wear out a piston considering how many saws I own.
> 
> Needless to say I still like my popup pistons.....but I can build a saw either way.



I've had some good running saws that had pop-up pistons, and I've had great running saws that didn't have a 
pop-up piston or a squish band that was cut. I think it all boils down to how a saw is being tuned. I like Jeremy's method
of welding up and turning down a pop-up and then the cylinder is still within specs enough to replace that piston with
a stocker if need be. I agree though, usually when a piston becomes garbage, the jug has become garbage right along with it.


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 19, 2012)

Jacob J. said:


> I've had some good running saws that had pop-up pistons, and I've had great running saws that didn't have a
> pop-up piston or a squish band that was cut. I think it all boils down to how a saw is being tuned. I like Jeremy's method
> of welding up and turning down a pop-up and then the cylinder is still within specs enough to replace that piston with
> a stocker if need be. I agree though, usually when a piston becomes garbage, the jug has become garbage right along with it.



That welded popup is an option I am going to have to explore in more detail. 

Just when a guy thinks he has caught up the game changes............again.


----------



## Bowtie (Feb 19, 2012)

wigglesworth said:


> Ahhheeeemmmmm......



Now _that's purrdy!!_ 346?


----------



## parrisw (Feb 19, 2012)

What about added weight of a welded pop-up.


----------



## wigglesworth (Feb 19, 2012)

Bowtie said:


> Now _that's purrdy!!_ 346?



Yep. I gotta get to workin on it. I'm stuck in da house today with a sick little girl. She's more important though...

Momma caught me sleeping on the job earlier lol. 






She's up and at em now though, just runnin a fever. Vanilla wafers and spongebob seems to help.


----------



## wigglesworth (Feb 19, 2012)

parrisw said:


> What about added weight of a welded pop-up.



It's not as much as u would think.


----------



## Jacob J. (Feb 19, 2012)

parrisw said:


> What about added weight of a welded pop-up.



That can easily be dealt with by doing some work under the piston and looking for areas where weight can be trimmed off. 



wigglesworth said:


> Yep. I gotta get to workin on it. I'm stuck in da house today with a sick little girl. She's more important though...
> 
> Momma caught me sleeping on the job earlier lol.
> 
> She's up and at em now though, just runnin a fever. Vanilla wafers and spongebob seems to help.



She sure is cute. It's a good thing she looks like her mom....


----------



## wigglesworth (Feb 19, 2012)

Jacob J. said:


> She sure is cute. It's a good thing she looks like her mom....



Yea, she would look silly with facial hair


----------



## parrisw (Feb 19, 2012)

wigglesworth said:


> It's not as much as u would think.



Cool, that's not much.


----------



## komatsuvarna (Feb 19, 2012)

wigglesworth said:


> Ahhheeeemmmmm......



Here's one I freehand cut!! I had a member weld it for me, and I finished it with a dremel and sandpaper. Lathe is much easier...and a little prettier too,,,I just don't have one lol.


----------



## steve316 (Feb 19, 2012)

*weight of welded pop-up*

In drag racing they ran solid domes;then they started running hollow domes. So why couldn't you profile from under the pop-up to reduce the weight. also the new dolmar 7900 piston comes with lighter tapered wall wrist pin.It takes a lot of aluminum to make a few grams. I have raced engines from 1.5 per cent over balanced to 5 per cent under balance with no effect on performance or life of the engine.as how this effect a chainsaw your guess is as good mine. Steve


----------



## jropo (Feb 19, 2012)

Bowtie said:


> Now _that's purrdy!!_ 346?



Hey Bowtie,

What kinda bet are you gonna have w/ your buddie!:hmm3grin2orange:

I think he might oop: himself.
Looks like ya got a runner!


----------



## Bowtie (Feb 19, 2012)

jropo said:


> Hey Bowtie,
> 
> What kinda bet are you gonna have w/ your buddie!:hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> ...



LOL! I was thinkin on a case of Budweiser. Gonna be sending Mastermind a 361 pretty soon, as new as this 460 is!


----------



## jropo (Feb 19, 2012)

Bowtie said:


> LOL! I was thinkin on a case of Budweiser. Gonna be sending Mastermind a 361 pretty soon, as new as this 460 is!



I guess a case of beer is about right, if you say "slips" he might think your up to something.

Your aimin at have a full stable of MM'ed saws!
Have fun, and don't make him feel too bad!
Remember as soon as he finds out whats up, he'll be looking for pay back, might as well send a 660 to MM too. Just in case...:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Bowtie (Feb 19, 2012)

jropo said:


> I guess a case of beer is about right, if you say "slips" he might think your up to something.
> 
> Your aimin at have a full stable of MM'ed saws!
> Have fun, and don't make him feel too bad!
> Remember as soon as he finds out whats up, he'll be looking for pay back, might as well send a 660 to MM too. Just in case...:hmm3grin2orange:



Honestly, I have a few friends anticipating the return of my 460. They wanna see the difference. If they like as much as I know I will, Randy might get pretty busy for a spell. I may even give the guy with the stock 660 his info, lol!


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## Mastermind (Feb 19, 2012)

Bowtie said:


> Honestly, I have a few friends anticipating the return of my 460. They wanna see the difference. If they like as much as I know I will, Randy might get pretty busy for a spell. I may even give the guy with the stock 660 his info, lol!



I really enjoy building these saws. That's a good thing because I'm sure busy doing it.


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## Jwalker1911 (Mar 3, 2012)

Bowtie said:


> (I have not scaled either, I dont even own a scale that measures that high)
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> Still using the scale from college?


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## wyk (Jan 24, 2014)

Mastermind said:


> Where's that "dislike" button when you need it????



I was digging thru this thread and stealing numbers and techniques. Just wanted to let ya know we now have a 'dislike' button. I find the fastest way to get dislikes is to make fun of Dolmars or Stihls.


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