# Stihl 028 AV Super... is it worth fixing?



## SteveoSupremo

So I bought a used Stihl 028 AV Super off of craigslist. Cosmetically there isn't a scratch on it. Heck the plastic to cover the logos are still there. when I fired it up it ran awesome so picked it up for $175. got it out the first weekend it fired right up started going through wood like it was it's job! loved it! then about 15 min in it started dying at the high end. felt like it was a little lean so I read the manual and it sounded like i needed to turn up the high rpm setpoint screw thing. So I did and it ran like a champ for the next 4 hours! we even fell most of a 40" tree. I stopped my Stihl for the last half hour while we were using a wedge to fall the tree. once it was on the ground well tried to start it up again and it wouldn't even attempt to start. 

so I took it to a dealer and after three weeks they said that I had scored the cylinder wall from running too lean. :-( so they considered it junk.

So I ask the real pro's should I attempt to resurrect it or buy a brand new saw?

View attachment 225640


anyways any info on the saw like what parts to look for cylinder size etc would be most helpful


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## watsonr

New piston and a cylinder acid bath and it should be good to go....... heck yea! And that one looks pretty nice on the outside. Go to the beg for manuals thread and ask for a shop manual and parts list to get started. READ THEM and then order the parts and get busy.

Good luck and the hardest part is just getting started!


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## Hedgerow

Resurect that saw... If you don't feel like messing with it yourself, send it to Stumpy and let him work it over for ya... Helluvalot better than plunking down 5 bills for a new saw...


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## myragtop

Wow that's too bad about your saw. 
But on a brighter note, I wouldn't hesitate on a rebuild of an 028 Super. I've got a lot of newer saws but still love to use my 028 Super for certain things. Yours seems to be in great cosmetic condition and I'm sure somebody here would be more than happy to take it off your hands if you decide not to fix it. People that own them really know how desirable they truly are.
Good luck on the rebuild.


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## Evanrude

Absolutely rebuild that saw, its a cherry! Plus, you'll learn a few things along the way.

I bought a fixer 028S last summer and it was a fun little project.


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## SteveoSupremo

Wow 5 post and I have only gotten done watching some you tube videos on how to fix some chain saws!

So I can Do this!!! I can Do this!!! (trying to psych myself up) whats the worst that could happen... 

@watsonr you think i need just a new piston not cylinder? how do I do an acid bath? and beg for manuals..... wow I'm behind already!

Thanks for the support!
Steve


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## picklenjim

I seen on ebay they have pistons for $28 and cylinder and piston kits for about $150. Their 46mm. Just go to ebay and search "028 super". There's about anything you might need.


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## watsonr

in the stickys section is the beg for manuals thread, ask for them there.

Muraitic acid available at any of the home improvement stores will remove aluminum from the cylinder walls that have some of the piston smeared on it.. read up on this.... it could kill you if done wrong. It's not hard to do, just be very careful, it will save a cylinder without any gouges in it but not one that has been through the chrome plating, most are savable. A new piston and a pressure test to verify it was bad tuning and not something else before you run it again.

You can do this, the hardest part is just starting! There are some very good sponsors here to use. Northwood saws and Baileys to name a few... good reliable parts. Look up in the Sponsors section for thier banner and click away.


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## Sagetown

Hedgerow said:


> Resurect that saw... If you don't feel like messing with it yourself, send it to Stumpy and let him work it over for ya... Helluvalot better than plunking down 5 bills for a new saw...



I'll Rep ya to that.


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## SteveoSupremo

Thanks @watsonr I've asked for manuals. looks like a lot of other people have as well. so I should get something. hopefully.

Wish me Luck!


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## RiverRat2

Definitly worth fixing,,,

Find your self some long Q tips with the wooden handles,, do the muratic acid cleaning in a well ventilated area,,, safety glasses and rubber Platex gloves are nice,, if you get a wiff you will know what I mean... not trying to scare you just be careful i think there is a youtube vid on doing it,,, hope fully you didnt go through the plating in the bore,,, will probably have to lightly hone the cylinder,,,but maybe not,, post up some pics as you go,,,, I think Tecomec makes a P/C replacment that is reasonable,, Good luck

oh pour a small amount of the acid out in an old spraypaint can lid for your use,,, do not dip your q-tips back in the bottle or pour what you poured out to use back in the bottle when you are done,,,,,, just ditch it it will contaminate and if there is aluminum in your used stuff it will react violently with the pure acid,,,,,


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## SteveoSupremo

RiverRat2 said:


> Definitly worth fixing,,,
> 
> Find your self some long Q tips with the wooden handles,, do the muratic acid cleaning in a well ventilated area,,, safety glasses and rubber Platex gloves are nice,, if you get a wiff you will know what I mean... not trying to scare you just be careful i think there is a youtube vid on doing it,,, hope fully you didnt go through the plating in the bore,,, will probably have to lightly hone the cylinder,,,but maybe not,, post up some pics as you go,,,, I think Tecomec makes a P/C replacment that is reasonable,, Good luck
> 
> oh pour a small amount of the acid out in an old spraypaint can lid for your use,,, do not dip your q-tips back in the bottle or pour what you poured out to use back in the bottle when you are done,,,,,, just ditch it it will contaminate and if there is aluminum in your used stuff it will react violently with the pure acid,,,,,



Thanks for the how to. I only thought Muratic Acid was for cleaning toilets and getting rid of bodies. ;-) Just kidding on the getting rid of bodies part. but yea I have a bottle sitting around from when I cleaned our toilet.... don't ask.... I'm becoming a handy man. You are right about the smell of the acid!!!! it's un mistakable!

I Just got the manuals so now I have to finish the bed platform, shelves in the garage, websites, and then get the car in the garage, and then make space for me to work on the saw..... so it might be a little while till I get to working on it. But it's on my todo list!

thanks guys for the encouragement!
Steve


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## picklenjim

If your going to use muratic acid use as little as possible and be ready to flush it with water. Try just using it on a Q-tip if possible or wrap a small wad of cotton on a chop stick and wipe it around. You don't want it on the chromed cylinder wall any longer than necessary. Remember to flush it off asap!

I worked in a plating shop for years and we used muratic acid to strip chrome off when we were going to do a re-plate.


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## SteveoSupremo

picklenjim said:


> If your going to use muratic acid use as little as possible and be ready to flush it with water. Try just using it on a Q-tip if possible or wrap a small wad of cotton on a chop stick and wipe it around. You don't want it on the chromed cylinder wall any longer than necessary. Remember to flush it off asap!
> 
> I worked in a plating shop for years and we used muratic acid to strip chrome off when we were going to do a re-plate.



Ok will do. Do I want to dilute the HCL? or whatever concentration is out of the bottle? 

is the intent here to spot scrub off the aluminum left by the old piston or to remove any "varnish" that is present around the entire cylinder wall?


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## ozflea

How long did you expect $175-00 to last after all its only a Stihl ?


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## powerking

.....after you put that new piston in and clean up the cylinder, you better pressure test and vac test the crankcase...otherwise you'll be back with a scored piston in no time


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## SteveoSupremo

ozflea said:


> How long did you expect $175-00 to last after all its only a Stihl ?



being that it is 30 years old... I expected it to last as long as my buddies walmart special Paulin wood shark....


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## blsnelling

Buy a Meteor piston from a site sponsor. They are very high quality.


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## SteveoSupremo

So I pulled the muffler and looked into the cylinder the piston was moving freely by pulling the starter rope. this is what I could see of the piston. Didn't look smooth like I was expecting. but I have no idea what is should look like. What do the experts think? is the piston shot?
View attachment 225907


once the piston was out of the way i could see around in the cylinder there were some up and down marks like I would have expected but there were many more horizontal striations, almost like it was nearly brand new. Unless the pro's think otherwise I'm going to pull the cylinder to get a better look/pictures. 

Honestly I was expecting a lot worse. I'm guessing it's going to be a piston, carb kit, fuel lines and air/fuel filters at this point.

but really what do the experts think?
Steve


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## roostersgt

Those horizontal striations you mentioned look suspiciously like the rings being "welded" to the piston.


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## SteveoSupremo

roostersgt said:


> Those horizontal striations you mentioned look suspiciously like the rings being "welded" to the piston.



Yea I think the rings are welded to the piston..... they horizontal striations are on the inside of the cylinder. looks almost like a tool mark from the machining of the cylinder.

Just a thought... could I be not getting a spark??? I should probably check that.


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## Evanrude

You've got a melted piston there. The intake side of the cylinder may be alright, your description is hard to follow. Regardless, you need to pull the cylinder and see what the exhaust side looks like. It's hard to tell from the pics if the cylinder is salvageable or not. Piston is definitely toast though.


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## watsonr

Evanrude said:


> You've got a melted piston there. The intake side of the cylinder may be alright, your description is hard to follow. Regardless, you need to pull the cylinder and see what the exhaust side looks like. It's hard to tell from the pics if the cylinder is salvageable or not. Piston is definitely toast though.



Yep, time to take it apart, that thing is toast.


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## Clarkbug

I agree, time for teardown.

Clean any other dirt/dust/grease off of it and pull the cylinder off to see how bad the damage is on the inside. Post more pics here, and go from there.


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## SteveoSupremo

*Mods?*

so i'f I'm planning on doing this are there any mods that I should consider? mainly I would like to quiet it down, cool it down, prolong life and add power.

Basically I want it all.... ;-)


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## Clarkbug

My advice is to go one step at a time. Pull the jug, see how it looks and if you can clean it up. Get a new piston for it, and get that in, then try and figure out what killed it the first time. A muffler mod is probably the place to start, but that makes it louder, not quieter. 

As far as more power, there are a number of guys here that you could send it to who would port it and make it a nice working saw.


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## SteveoSupremo

*The Jug... aka Cylinder*

so I was able to pull the cylinder today took about an hour start to finish. not half bad.

looking at it doesn't look like there are any groves mostly looks like there is aluminum transfer around the exhaust. looks like there could have been some aluminum transferred out the exhaust port as well. I do see some pitting near the intake. 

here are the pictures. I'll get some extreme closeups tomorrow and post them up.
View attachment 226477

View attachment 226478


The piston is toast! the rings are welded to the piston. so I guess it's a new one. how do I pull the shot one out? i got the sholder rings out but the center did not push out like I was expecting.

Now for a new piston do I go cheep $26 piston? Chainsawr Stihl 028 Super chainsaw piston assembly 46mm ST0025 (Box Z)
or do I spring for the Meteor at $45? 
Bailey's - Meteor Piston Assembly for Stihl 028
why should I get the expensive one? will it hold up to more heat? give me more power?

and while I'm at it should I re-build the carb? and new filters?

Thanks for all your help.


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## watsonr

Its a better quality piston.... it may last longer, have better heat tolerance and just in general better clearances... Don't cheap out for $20

Cylinder looks like it will clean up easy, watch this video of how http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/130474.htm.

Find out why it burned up or it will do it again no matter what piston you put in it. Pressure testing here http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/42768.htm

get a service manual, watch a couple video of how to rebuild a saw. Rebuild the carb, new fuel line and filter.


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## SteveoSupremo

I think the piston burnt up because I ran fuel that had a Oil to fuel ratio that wasn't good for this saw. The manual states that it requires a 50/1 if your using Stihl oil or a 25/1 if using another brand oil. I ran some other mix that was somewhere between 50/1 to 100/1 through it. that's my guess. 

How do I pull the piston pin? I have already removed the snap rings but the piston pin isn't pushing out easily. 

thanks
Steve


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## Clarkbug

Sorry to hear that you essentially straight gassed your saw.

Try the acid to see if the cylinder will clean up. Northwood saw (another site sponsor) also has the meteor pistons if you are looking around. 

I used a small socket to push the wrist pin out. Just take your time with it, and it should come out on its own, perhaps with very minor persuasion.


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## SteveoSupremo

Clarkbug said:


> Sorry to hear that you essentially straight gassed your saw.
> 
> Try the acid to see if the cylinder will clean up. Northwood saw (another site sponsor) also has the meteor pistons if you are looking around.
> 
> I used a small socket to push the wrist pin out. Just take your time with it, and it should come out on its own, perhaps with very minor persuasion.



I'll give the socket idea a shot. I did just find Northwood saw I'm planning on purchasing everything from them after I make sure I can get the cylinder cleaned up! Northwood saw has the best prices I could find.

thanks


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## RiverRat2

The cylinder does look like it should clean up.. just direct the muratic acid to the transferd aluminum,,, as long as it keeps bubbling there is aluminum there,,, when it quits bubbling you have it clean, then move to the next spot... once a qtip gets loaded ditch it for a fresh one... and rinse the bore with warm water as you go

yes Northwoods has the best pricing,,, Meteor piston all the way,, Italian made,,, IMO way beter than the Chicom,, [email protected]!!!


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## SteveoSupremo

*Acid Done!*

ok so I did the q-tip acid wash here is what I came up with.
View attachment 226839

I think I still need to hit it with sandpaper 600 grit wet dry? 

There is some pitting where the streaks started will that be ok? what can be tolerated?

thanks
steve


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## RiverRat2

The streaks are common with a piston crash,,, I dont see anything to worry about, yeah you can try the sand paper but IMO 400 would be better than 600 with some marvel mystery oil for lube,, take some more photos when you think you have it clean,, I would keep hitting the high spots with fresh acid,,, on clean q-tips,,, if it is still bubbling it still has aluminum transfer you have to get it clean,,


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## SkippyKtm

SteveoSupremo said:


> ok so I did the q-tip acid wash here is what I came up with.
> View attachment 226839
> 
> I think I still need to hit it with sandpaper 600 grit wet dry?
> 
> There is some pitting where the streaks started will that be ok? what can be tolerated?
> 
> thanks
> steve



Your photos indicate that you have a ways to go. Hit it with another round of Muriatic acid then sand it with some 600 grit silicon carbide wet/dry. When you're done it should feel smooth.


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## SteveoSupremo

*Cylinder all done?*

Well here is a picture after I have sanded and and ran a couple more acid baths. I can't feel any scratches with my finger or my nail.

View attachment 227193


the brown is a reflection from something.

I got the wrist pin pulled it was in kind-of tough but I got it. now to figure out the carb, get new parts, and put it together.

so I think the gas I put in was 50/1 of non stihl oil is this what I would have expected? or is there a leak in the manifold or carb?


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## Clarkbug

That looks a lot better than the first shot you had, so definite progress. 

As far as your mix, how fresh was it? Any idea what oil? I would say that you should dump whatever it was, go buy some quality 93 octane stuff (if you can get non-ethanol, thats a plus), and get a high quality synthetic mix. For starters it wouldnt hurt to drop my your local dealer, grab some Stihl Ultra in a size that matches what your gas can is, and use that for a bit. Your exhaust port looks like there is a fair amount of carbon in it, it wouldnt hurt to gently scrape some of that out while you have the jug off of the saw.

You may have a leak somewhere in it, but we cant tell you that you do from here. When you said it was running lean, you turned up the gas mix to compensate, so there is probably a leak somewhere. Look closely at the rubber boot that connects the carb to the jug, and also your impulse line. Its a good idea to replace the impulse line and fuel line while you have it torn this far down anyway. Good excuse to go see your local dealer and pick up that oil. Then once its all back together you can pressure vac/test things to see if you have any bigger problems. 

Good work so far, the folks here will help bring you the rest of the way in. (Im also following this closely, since I still have a 28 super thats in a box, needing me to finish it)


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## powerking

....While your at it, ditch that base gasket and make one out of an aluminum can and bring that squish down to .020, and watch that compression go right up.....


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## SteveoSupremo

Clarkbug said:


> That looks a lot better than the first shot you had, so definite progress.
> Good work so far, the folks here will help bring you the rest of the way in. (Im also following this closely, since I still have a 28 super thats in a box, needing me to finish it)



Good luck I have all the IPL, manual, owners guide if you need them.

Thanks the oil was some cheap stuff my buddy probably picked up at Walmart or somewhere. That fuel was fresh earler in the day the fuel we used was definitely old maybe 3 - 4 months possibly longer and the same thing with the oil cheapest chainsaw oil from a hardware store. 

I have most all of the parts I need on order. the only thing I can't find is a manifold (the rubber boot) OEM from a stihl dealer is $35 which is as much as an after market meteor piston. which by the way Northwood Saw has the best prices!!! currently about $75 for new piston, carb kits (both I'll remove the one I don't need), impulse, fuel line, and fuel filter.

after I was cutting for about 15 min, when I would pull the trigger the saw seemed to loose power and stall. turning up (1/16 of a turn) the high end carb adjustment and i was cutting away. Looking back I should have noticed that at idle the chain was spinning pretty good. my guess is the carb is way out of adjustment. 

putting a soda can gasket sounds interesting I don't think I'm going to try it right away maybe if I pick up another project. what is the muffler mod? just leaving the spark arrester out?


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## SteveoSupremo

Another question.

How do I know if the hoses, elbows etc are bad? they are soft and pliable and I don't see any cracks.

my reason is the elbow/manifold is going to run me as much as the piston!

any thoughts?

thanks
Steve


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## SteveoSupremo

*Update:*

so got the piston, and lines in today. got the lines in only took 2 hours!!! pain in the butt!! The fuel filter is going to be an even worse pain!

anyway I think there has been a piston job on this saw before. the piston has a "C" marked on it.... if it was new I would have expected an "A"

anyway any tips for getting the P/C back together?


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## Stihlofadeal64

SteveoSupremo said:


> Well here is a picture after I have sanded and and ran a couple more acid baths. I can't feel any scratches with my finger or my nail.
> 
> View attachment 227193
> 
> 
> the brown is a reflection from something.
> 
> I got the wrist pin pulled it was in kind-of tough but I got it. now to figure out the carb, get new parts, and put it together.
> 
> so I think the gas I put in was 50/1 of non stihl oil is this what I would have expected? or is there a leak in the manifold or carb?



The cylinder looks much better. Make sure you have no air leaks before you run the saw after it is put together. Otherwise you could be quickly back to "square-one."


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## Clarkbug

It took me about that long the first time I tried it. Definitely a learning experience. Someone here mentioned that I should use some string trimmer line, put that through the fuel tank,and feed the fuel line in that way. I havent tried it, but I might do it on the next saw I need to pull apart. 

If you search a little on here, you can see the tips about using some string to get the intake manifold back through the handle. (its also in the Sthil manual, I think) If you dont have piston clamps, you can use zip ties or some people use a strip of a soda bottle. Put some oil on things and slide the jug on, feed the intake manifold through the handle, then tighten down. Dont forget to put your gasket on FIRST. Make sure you didnt get any crap in the crank case before you button it all up. Also be sure to point the piston the correct direction.

You will definitely want to be sure that you dont have an air leak, so once you button it back up, time to pressure/vac test to be sure.


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## RiverRat2

SteveoSupremo said:


> Another question.
> 
> How do I know if the hoses, elbows etc are bad? they are soft and pliable and I don't see any cracks.
> 
> my reason is the elbow/manifold is going to run me as much as the piston!
> 
> any thoughts?
> 
> thanks
> Steve



That Cylinder looks great now,,, Good work,,,

JMHO Well for a saw that old, the new intake boot and all new hoses (fuel and impulse) are a* must*,,, trust me,,, it will save you much grief/time/trouble later,,, for instance a leaking impulse hose can lean you out and you would be right back where you started,, broken,,, wouldnt you feel better knowing that all those consumables are fresh and new after all the work you put into it??????

as another poster stated,,, clean all the carbon you can out of the exhaust port,,, it is not your friend,,, it is in fact the enemy,,, just be careful at the transition of the port/cylinder bore chamfering interface,,, once you get the big stuff a roll of 320 grit emory on a polish shaft drill attachment/ or die grinder/dremel works wonders and youi can clean up the casting flasing and pick up a smidge of performance in the process,,,, post pics for us as you go

if there is some flakey stuff left in the combustion chamber clean it too,,,, by hand/elbow greasen to stay out of that good bore plating you salvaged,,,

keep us posted,,,

I know you are trying to save coins but as good as that cylinder bore cleaned up,,, and oem piston kit would really be nice,,,

be sure and check the needle cage brg. on the wristpin,,, a new one is only about $8.00 and as long as the crank case bearings are snug and the seals are not leaking,,, that saw will live a very long time,,, especially with the new synthetic lubes that are now available!!!


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## SteveoSupremo

*028_AV_Super New Pistons*

So I got the new pistons from NortwoodSaw.com. it came in a much smaller box than I was expecting but hey it all fit and not an over abundance of packaging makes everyone happy!

anyway here are the pictures of the pistons!
View attachment 228200


and a picture of the old and new hoses. the new fuel line is a lot longer than the old one but I think it will work I tried to dry fit it and I think everything will work.
View attachment 228201


I'm getting a ring compressor made up and should have that put together sometime next week. assuming that I don't screw up the cylinder trying to smooth out the exhaust and intake ports. 

I took a closer look at the muffler today there really isn't any room for that thing to breath!! has anyone ever run without the top cover on? what happens?


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## SteveoSupremo

*Carb Rebuilt*

WOW that was easy! 

I wish pulling hoses was as easy as putting together a carb! didn't even have time to take pictures!

the carb looked pretty clean. the side with the metering diaphragm was full of saw dust. I don't think it's supposed to be that way so I cleaned it all up ran some carb cleaner through it new pin, screen, diaphrams, and gaskets. 

hopefully it runs....


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## Clarkbug

SteveoSupremo said:


> WOW that was easy!
> 
> I wish pulling hoses was as easy as putting together a carb! didn't even have time to take pictures!
> 
> the carb looked pretty clean. the side with the metering diaphragm was full of saw dust. I don't think it's supposed to be that way so I cleaned it all up ran some carb cleaner through it new pin, screen, diaphrams, and gaskets.
> 
> hopefully it runs....



Did the old fuel line have a filter on the end of it? Make sure you put one on before you run it.

Also, dont run it without a muffler entirely, you want some resistance there. I cant explain it well enough at all, but you want a muffler.


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## SteveoSupremo

Yea I have the fuel filter back on. I'm sure there needs to be some back pressure. how much I don't know.

If I were to remove the spark arrester and open up the exaust port could I use some heavy duty steal wool, the really wide metal stuff not the thin sos pad type, to be a spark arrester?

do you think the steal wool would catch fire? should I use copper instead?

thanks


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## NORMZILLA44

How you doing Steve? Good ole saws I just sold one awihle back I traded for some wood. Funny thin it was my first carb kit, and rebuild, and I agree so easy! I had my first 028 when I was 18 I think back in early 90's.


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## SteveoSupremo

@NORMZILLA44 yea it was a great saw for the four hours that I was able to run it. it's too bad that I stupidly leaned it out and fried the piston.... 

anyway I know for next time and I learned a lot about small engines and how they run! hopefully I'm going to get this one running smoothly again so it stays running for a long time.

Steve


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## Clarkbug

You can open the muffler up some, but no need for any SOS type pad for a spark arrestor in there. If you dont want to run the screen you dont have to, lots of folks dont. Just dont make it too open, and you should be good.


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## SteveoSupremo

*almost done*

so yea I was all set to by some 2 cycle oil today at lunch until I saw the price tag $20 for 6 two gallon mixes! called another store and there it was less than $10 for the same stuff!

any way hopefully I'll get some so I can get this thing buttoned up and ready to go!

any tips for the first start? just set the carb to 1 and 1/4 turn from closed and give it a pull?


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## PogoInTheWoods

SteveoSupremo said:


> any tips for the first start? just set the carb to 1 and 1/4 turn from closed and give it a pull?



I may be way off the mark, but I think it'll probably need at least two pulls.:msp_wink:


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## SteveoSupremo

*Update:*

got the rings on, ring compressor in place, needle bearing in place, wrist pin in, copious amounts of 2 cycle oil all over the innards.... 

Now how do I get those darn circle clips in...


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## SteveoSupremo

Bump.....

anyone know how to get those circlips in that hold the wrist pin in?


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## powerking

I have used needlnose pliers that I have ground down...I have also used snap ring pliers with great success


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## RiverRat2

I use a carb adjusting screwdriver and walk it in,,, start with one end in the groove then keeping one fingertip on the clip,,, with steady pressure,,,,, on it cause if you dont hold it down,,,, and the screw driver slips off,, you wont find it!!!! LOLOL!!!


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## H 2 H

RiverRat2 said:


> I use a carb adjusting screwdriver and walk it in,,, start with one end in the groove then keeping one fingertip on the clip,,, with steady pressure,,,,, on it cause if you dont hold it down,,,, *and the screw driver slips off,, you wont find it!!!! LOLOL*!!!



LOL

They fly thru the air with the greats of eas were they go nobody knows :hmm3grin2orange:


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## SteveoSupremo

*back together*

so I got it back together got the stupid circlips back in. pain in the kester,

got the cylinder back in went a lot easer that I thought it would... forgot the bolts that hold it on... so that took me another 30 min to fish those in there.

Manafold when in with no problems. got some pices of rubber to block the carb and the exaust for compression, and pressure / vac testing as soon as I get the head bolts tightened down.


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## SteveoSupremo

*Compression testing... should I be worried?*

So I had the exhaust closed off for pressure and vac testing but I got a compression tester from a friend and tried to test without pulling the exhaust plug first pull got me to about 75 psi and about 5 pulls later it was up just under 100.

now mind you this is the first pulls on this piston and rings, I don't hear anything wrong. The pull is jerkey ie when the piston is TDC it gets really hard otherwise it feels normal. 

I'm going to remove the plug from the exhaust and give it some more pulls and see what happens. but brand new piston and ring where everything is cold what should I expect?

Steve


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## Clarkbug

I dont know what to tell you to expect, but I would imagine that the compression would be low until the new rings seat. Are you sure you have them clocked in properly? And what do you mean the exhaust plug? For the compression test, you dont need anything plugged. 

Also, is your friends tester the kind that has a valve on the very end of it? If not, you could have a false reading.


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## SteveoSupremo

yes I put the rings on the piston and aligned to the keys before I used a ring clamp to hold the rings in while I slid the cylinder on pushing the ring clamps out of the way. everything was oiled with synthetic 2 cycle mix oil.


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## SteveoSupremo

ok so pulled the exhaust plug (rubber tire piece between muffler and exhaust port) and it pulls much like it did before I messed it up. 

the compression reads 65 on first pull and 80 after the 3rd pull and it doesn't go up from there.

I'm thinking about gassing it up and trying it out.

any reason why I shouldn't?


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## powerking

...Somethings not right...That saw will not run with only 80psi...general rule of thumb is anything under 100 will not run.....any chance you can get another compression tester?


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## PogoInTheWoods

You never mentioned the results of your vac/pressure test.


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## DJayawk

Just finished reading all the pages in the this thread. I am in a very similar situation as you are Steve so I'm subscribing. Good job so far!


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## SteveoSupremo

PogoInTheWoods said:


> You never mentioned the results of your vac/pressure test.



I haven't yet. I don't have the equipment. I'll try to take it to a shop and have them do it this weekend.

@powerking this is a brand new piston and rings what should I expect? Where should I check for problems?


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## SteveoSupremo

DJayawk said:


> Just finished reading all the pages in the this thread. I am in a very similar situation as you are Steve so I'm subscribing. Good job so far!



Just PM'd You. 

Good luck with your re-build. do you have a thread with pictures of your re-build? I hope to be as helpful as people have been to me.


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## powerking

SteveoSupremo said:


> I haven't yet. I don't have the equipment. I'll try to take it to a shop and have them do it this weekend.
> 
> @powerking this is a brand new piston and rings what should I expect? Where should I check for problems?




What direction is the arrow pointing on top of the piston? It should be towards the exhaust. I would have to go out on a limb here and say that the compression gauge is not working properly


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## SteveoSupremo

powerking said:


> What direction is the arrow pointing on top of the piston? It should be towards the exhaust. I would have to go out on a limb here and say that the compression gauge is not working properly



Yes it's pointing towards the exhaust. I'll check again just to make sure. and maybe stop in at my local shop and see if I can borrow the use of their tools. Hopefully one of the 3 shops want my returning business.


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## Mad Professor

Who made your replacement parts?

Did you check ring end gap, and P/C clearance?

Stihl made made A , B, and A/B parts for top ends based on fit-ment. STIHL should have DECENT compression

If you rip it down, check piston deck height to wrist pin, might have a badley machined piston.

No brainer, got the SPARKY tight?

P.S. my 028S was rebuilt with OEM, > 20 years ago by me, it is my go to small saw.


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## RiverRat2

he went back with a meteor piston, one of the best aftermaket piston kits,,,

I would think comp should be 150-160 easy with a new slug and rings,,, cause that jug cleaned up really well,, You either have a bad leak or a bad tester,,,, any thing below 120 is not very good in my book,,, did you ever check the squish when you were putting it back together???


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## PogoInTheWoods

Mad Professor said:


> No brainer, got the SPARKY tight?



Wouldn't be one during a compression test. No brainer.:hmm3grin2orange:

Since he initially forgot the cylinder bolts, I'll put money on cylinder base leak -- maybe a torn gasket?



Poge


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## powerking

PogoInTheWoods said:


> Wouldn't be one during a compression test. No brainer.:hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> Since he initially forgot the cylinder bolts, I'll put money on cylinder base leak -- maybe a torn gasket?
> 
> 
> 
> Poge


...or maybe NO gasket......Its easy to forget that when your trying to compress the rings and slide the jug back on...ask me how I know!


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## SteveoSupremo

powerking said:


> ...or maybe NO gasket......Its easy to forget that when your trying to compress the rings and slide the jug back on...ask me how I know!



Nope gasket is in there... I was kicking myself when I had to put it on after I had the ring compressor on there..... Had to pull all that off, and gingerly work the gasket over the piston. then re-assemble the compressor and slide the cylinder down. when I got close and got the manafold in is when I realized I should have put the bolts in first......

anyway I used a part retriever magnet to put the bolts in. and made sure the gasket was in properly with the bolts through first before tightening down with blue locktight. 

I don't know how to tell what the squish is. 

with the spark plug and no mufler it pulls pretty easy like I remember, with the plug in it pulls a lot harder when the piston is at top of the stroke. 

I think the tester is not right for this application or there are too many losses in the hoses and fittings.


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## SteveoSupremo

*It's Alive!!!*

Decided just to go for broke and put some gas in it and fire it up.

appears to run ok. Carb was adjusted to 1 1/4 turns and I adjusted the lower until the chain stopped moving with the chain brake off.

It smoked a lot on startup but then I did put about an oz of oil on the piston, ring, bearings, etc. 

I don't have a tac so what do you guys think of the tuning? 

Stihl 028AV Super Start Up after Rebuild - YouTube

Thoughts?


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## PogoInTheWoods

SteveoSupremo said:


> do you guys think of the tuning?



I think your kid doesn't like it very much!

Sounds like it's 4-stroking OK at WOT, but idling a little high to me. Throttle response was sorta hard to gauge, but seemed a little sluggish.

But hey, go put it in some wood tomorrow and see how it cuts!

Good job sticking with it and getting it back up and running.



Poge


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## SteveoSupremo

PogoInTheWoods said:


> I think your kid doesn't like it very much!
> 
> Sounds like it's 4-stroking OK at WOT, but idling a little high to me. Throttle response was sorta hard to gauge, but seemed a little sluggish.
> 
> But hey, go put it in some wood tomorrow and see how it cuts!
> 
> Good job sticking with it and getting it back up and running.
> 
> 
> 
> Poge



The boy definitely didn't like it! yea it didn't feel really responsive I thought thats how it was supposed to feel. How do I fix that? How do I know where to lower the low idle to?


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## PogoInTheWoods

SteveoSupremo said:


> How do I know where to lower the low idle to?



Bear in mind that the "low idle" is actually adjusted with the LA screw, not the "L" screw. The "L" screw is a "low" mixture screw as is the "H" screw a "high" mixture screw. The L screw will affect your throttle response and may take some time to dial in as the saw gets some time on it. Lots of info here on tuning if you're patient enough to sort through the search function for it.

Poge


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## Clarkbug

SteveoSupremo said:


> The boy definitely didn't like it! yea it didn't feel really responsive I thought thats how it was supposed to feel. How do I fix that? How do I know where to lower the low idle to?



Like Pogo mentioned, the LA screw is the one you want to tweak to get the chain to stop spinning. Its the one thats not directly in the carb. You should definitely search some on here, but Ill give you the rough break down.

Get the saw started, and keep it running long enough for it to get warmed up. Adjust the LA screw to make sure that your saw stays idling without you having to blip the throttle as needed. At idle, adjust the L screw in until it almost dies out. Then go the other way until you get too lean. Put it back in the middle. Now adjust the LA so that the chain isnt spinning. Now that you have played with your L adjustment, you need to re-do the high screw. There is a good sound clip from Madsens, and Brad Snelling on here has made a good video of what the saw should sound like in the wood. 

Again, Im not a pro at this either, but thats the basic idea. Go ahead and search around here to get a good idea of what the full procedure is.


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## SteveoSupremo

*Not good :-(*

So I tried it in wood today... Couldn't keep it running and it would bog down with light pressure! Vid to come! 

What did I do wrong?


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## Clarkbug

I would stay to start with the tuning. If you cant keep it running, there is a problem. Start with the carb screws out 1 turn each (or 1 1/4), and it should at least run. Maybe not in the wood, but run. Then tune the low side, then the high side after it warms up some. If you cant get that far, its time to start thinking about what could be up with your build. 

Since you have tried to play with it some, wouldnt hurt to pull the muffler and make sure things are still OK there.

Is your coil gapped properly? Did you use a business card when you put all that back together?


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## SteveoSupremo

Here's the video 

[video=youtube;7j9fkTS6SJE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7j9fkTS6SJE&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/video]


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## SteveoSupremo

Clarkbug said:


> Is your coil gapped properly? Did you use a business card when you put all that back together?



Coil gapped? what coil? I know the spark plug is gapped properly.

I did pull the exhaust off everything looks good. there is a lot of oil in the exhaust but I think that's from all the oil i used to put it together. 

and by the way that was old cedar that I was cutting into.


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## Clarkbug

SteveoSupremo said:


> Coil gapped? what coil? I know the spark plug is gapped properly.
> 
> I did pull the exhaust off everything looks good. there is a lot of oil in the exhaust but I think that's from all the oil i used to put it together.
> 
> and by the way that was old cedar that I was cutting into.



Sorry, I may have jumped ahead...

When you pulled the saw all apart, did you take the coil off of the saw? Its screwed in next to the flywheel under the recoil. If you didnt, never mind my comment.

Sounds like you are really really rich. What happens when you pull the plug, is it all oily? Tune your L screw first, then lean out the saw some, and see if it works any better....


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## SteveoSupremo

No I didn't pull the coil off. just the P/C, Carb, and hoses. 

I'm sure the spark plug is oily. I used nearly an oz of oil with an acid brush on bearing areas, and arround the rings and cylinder wall as I was putting it back together. 

I'll play with the LA to get the saw to run, and let it sit idle for a little while while it heats up. then play with the L if I understand richen it up till it bogs down then lean it out till it revs up then choose halfway between the two points. Set the LA till the chain doesn't run and then do the same for the H only leaving it on the rich side of half way.


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## obwon

Is the chain brake on? It sounds like it is bound up.

John


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## Mad Professor

Look at fuel filter, fuel line and intake hose.

If those are good look at the carb rubber parts.

Stihl no good, pres/vac test.

P.S. has the saw been ran on CORN FED FUEL?


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## SteveoSupremo

So Yea I re-tuned the LA, then ran it through some maple it threw chips like it was it's job... then I played with the L then the LA again, then the H then made sure the LA was still good. 

after all that it looks as if it's still set at about 1 1/4 turns for both the H and L. 

Thanks
Steve


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## SteveoSupremo

*TLDR; -- Recap*

1) Toasted piston from over leaning out the saw:
2) Replaced piston, rings, cleaned Cylinder.
3) Replaced all rubber except for manifold.
4) Compression test was bogus.
5) Saw started and ran like a champ!
6) Saw sucked a couple days later in cedar :-(
7) Re-tuned and couldn't get it to bog down in bar length maple  

8) need to get tac....


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## psuiewalsh

SteveoSupremo said:


> 1) Toasted piston from over leaning out the saw:
> 2) Replaced piston, rings, cleaned Cylinder.
> 3) Replaced all rubber except for manifold.
> 4) Compression test was bogus.
> 5) Saw started and ran like a champ!
> 6) Saw sucked a couple days later in cedar :-(
> 7) Re-tuned and couldn't get it to bog down in bar length maple
> 
> 8) need to get tac....



A good number of people here will tell you don't worry about the tach run it by ear. I have tuned and had verified on a tach and it was very close. To me it was not worth the cost of owning one so I sold it to another member.


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## PogoInTheWoods

psuiewalsh said:


> To me it was not worth the cost of owning one so I sold it to another member.



The saw in the pic, or the tach?

A FastTach doesn't cost much more than fixing a blown up saw and is a great tool for the intended purpose, not to mention verifying the "ear technique" on stock saws. 

Poge


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## psuiewalsh

PogoInTheWoods said:


> The saw in the pic, or the tach?
> 
> A FastTach doesn't cost much more than fixing a blown up saw and is a great tool for the intended purpose, not to mention verifying the "ear technique" on stock saws.
> 
> Poge



I had that tach and sold it. I had that saw and sold it. It is not foolproof as the tach gets messed up by limited coils and the settings are different for ported saws too. I have the saw shop throw their tach on when I buy supplies if there is a question. It may work for you if there is one nearby.


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## PogoInTheWoods

psuiewalsh said:


> I had that tach and sold it. I had that saw and sold it. It is not foolproof as the tach gets messed up by limited coils and the settings are different for ported saws too. I have the saw shop throw their tach on when I buy supplies if there is a question. It may work for you if there is one nearby.



Tachs are good for tuning to specs if you know how to use one. They have no purpose on modded saws besides establishing the difference between stock specs and the resulting specs from the mod. And a tach will tell you if the limited coil is doing its job. It will also tell you how good (or bad) your ear technique is on a stock saw.

Just sayin'...

Sounds to me like the OP may benefit from having one. Sure would have made his initial tuning exercise a lot easier, now wouldn't it?:biggrin:



Poge


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## d in the tree

*Why'd she blow*

Can you get a picture of the bottom of the old piston and wrist pin? Is it dry or even blue in color? Did you get a pressure vacuum test done on it yet? I like to know why they died before I run a rebuild very hard. Just want your rebuild to last. And a note from an earlier post that I saw, I'm sure this is backwards. QUOTE]At idle, adjust the L screw in until it almost dies out. Then go the other way until you get too lean. Put it back in the middle


> . In is lean and out is rich. The jet controls the amount of fuel, not air.


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## psuiewalsh

PogoInTheWoods said:


> Tachs are good for tuning to specs if you know how to use one. They have no purpose on modded saws besides establishing the difference between stock specs and the resulting specs from the mod. And a tach will tell you if the limited coil is doing its job. It will also tell you how good (or bad) your ear technique is on a stock saw.
> 
> Just sayin'...
> 
> Sounds to me like the OP may benefit from having one. Sure would have made his initial tuning exercise a lot easier, now wouldn't it?:biggrin:
> 
> 
> 
> Poge



I agree with the last. Melty sucks.


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## SteveoSupremo

d in the tree said:


> Can you get a picture of the bottom of the old piston and wrist pin? Is it dry or even blue in color? Did you get a pressure vacuum test done on it yet? I like to know why they died before I run a rebuild very hard. Just want your rebuild to last. And a note from an earlier post that I saw, I'm sure this is backwards. QUOTE]At idle, adjust the L screw in until it almost dies out. Then go the other way until you get too lean. Put it back in the middle
> 
> 
> 
> . In is lean and out is rich. The jet controls the amount of fuel, not air.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> didn't vac test it. Like I said earler I thought it was running too rich so i leaned out the H to like 3/4 turn or so it wasn't dry (not straight gassed). I can't remember off the top of my head but I think there was some blue on the wrist pin (over heated).
> 
> your probably right on the directions of the screws I can't remember right now but yes I richened till it almost dies then leaned it out till it started racing then put it in between closer to the rich side. which was about at 1 1/4 turns..... did the same to the H at full throttle same 1 1/4 turns.. 4 cycles out of the wood throws chips in the wood.
> 
> will try to post a video of it tomorrow.
> 
> SS
Click to expand...


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## SteveoSupremo

*as promised finished, tuned, and burried*

so its in maple full bar depth it was getting clogged with chips. but other than that I think it was running pretty smooth!

[video=youtube_share;OFkI847yhmA]http://youtu.be/OFkI847yhmA[/video]

thoughts?
Steve


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## StihlyinEly

As long as your chain is sharp, noodling like that (cutting parallel with the grain) will always produce long chips that clog the clutch cover unless the cover is cut out a bit. I'd have been more interested in how it makes a typical bucking cut, because noodling a loose stump is forcing a lot of reefing on the saw, but it looks and sounds good anyway.


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## bush cutter

*stihl 028 woodboss*

hey guys i just got a really nice stihl 028 wood boss chainsaw runs awsome im thinkin of putting a 20 inch bar an chain on it would that work for this kinda saw please let me know or send me a pm thanks


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## Clarkbug

bush cutter said:


> hey guys i just got a really nice stihl 028 wood boss chainsaw runs awsome im thinkin of putting a 20 inch bar an chain on it would that work for this kinda saw please let me know or send me a pm thanks



Welcome to AS! Its usually best to start a new thread for these sorts of questions that aren't really connected to the original post.


The quick answer is that 20" will work for softwood , but its a little much for an 028 if you are trying to bury the bar in hardwood. 16" or 18" is probably a better match.


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## Dave41

SteveoSupremo said:


> So I bought a used Stihl 028 AV Super off of craigslist. Cosmetically there isn't a scratch on it. Heck the plastic to cover the logos are still there. when I fired it up it ran awesome so picked it up for $175. got it out the first weekend it fired right up started going through wood like it was it's job! loved it! then about 15 min in it started dying at the high end. felt like it was a little lean so I read the manual and it sounded like i needed to turn up the high rpm setpoint screw thing. So I did and it ran like a champ for the next 4 hours! we even fell most of a 40" tree. I stopped my Stihl for the last half hour while we were using a wedge to fall the tree. once it was on the ground well tried to start it up again and it wouldn't even attempt to start.
> 
> so I took it to a dealer and after three weeks they said that I had scored the cylinder wall from running too lean. :-( so they considered it junk.
> 
> So I ask the real pro's should I attempt to resurrect it or buy a brand new saw?
> 
> View attachment 225640
> 
> 
> anyways any info on the saw like what parts to look for cylinder size etc would be most helpful



Unless you have some sort of emotional attachment to it I would recommend retiring your 028. I owned a small equipment sales and repair business before I retired and witnessed many problems with the "0" series Stihls, especially the 028. One of the biggest problems was premature failure of the ignition modules. Clutch problems and scored bores were also prevalent. If I recall they do not have a chrome lined bore while most of the competition at the time did. Except for several starter ropes breaking, my 40 year-old Homelite 245 has a chrome bore and chrome plated piston and has run trouble free since I've owned it. Rugged in most respects, and even though I sold Stihl at one time, after 1980 or so I think they became less reliable and very over priced. Unless you're doing a lot of cutting, you can buy a fairly good light-duty saw nowadays for around $200.

Dave


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## hotshot

PogoInTheWoods said:


> I think your kid doesn't like it very much!



That was just a Husky crying in the foreground! Great job on the rebuild.


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