# Rock climbing VS. Tree climbing saddles?



## Fallguy1960 (Mar 28, 2008)

What is the difference between the saddles that rock climbers use verus the saddles that are sold for tree climbing? It seems that price is one thing. I am new to this tree climbing stuff. I have worked construction for 30 years and I'm familar with fall protection equipment. Are the tree climbing harnesses built with heavier materials because they are caring a load most of the time?


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## tomtrees58 (Mar 28, 2008)

come on do you think we climb 150 ft trees with junk tom trees hope this helps


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## moss (Mar 29, 2008)

Fallguy1960 said:


> What is the difference between the saddles that rock climbers use verus the saddles that are sold for tree climbing? It seems that price is one thing. I am new to this tree climbing stuff. I have worked construction for 30 years and I'm familar with fall protection equipment. Are the tree climbing harnesses built with heavier materials because they are caring a load most of the time?



Correct, rock saddles are to catch you if you fall, in roped tree climbing your weight is on the rope and harness majority of the time in the tree. Go to an outdoor gear store and try hanging in a rock harness with your feet off the ground for 2 minutes and then imagine doing that for anywhere from 3-10 hours daily. Quality tree harnesses cost more because there's more to them.
-moss


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## sawsong (Mar 29, 2008)

not sure it would help me if I were the one asking the question.

as a newbie myself, I've climbed in a wild country sport harness on a few occasions. It happens to have provision to add side D rings but I havent climbed with a lanyard yet, purely DRT with a second tie in once in the tree.

yes you can do it, but let me tell you, my wild country ziplock synchro elite thingy has a wide back strap as far as sport harnesses go, but it is far from comfortable when sitting back in it when body thrusting up the trunk. 

so the simple answer is, rope access harnesses in general, have stronger, regulation attachment points, more attachment points (side D's etc) and much wider straps and belts for comfort when suspended and to save you from doing yourself an injury.

Tree specific harnesses have the positioning of tool loops, attachment points etc, set up specifically for ease of use and movement in a tree situation.


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## moray (Mar 29, 2008)

*another opinion*

First of all, rock-climbing harnesses are not "junk". I have one that I prefer over my much-more-expensive arborist saddle when I want to do a quick climb for exercise or even to do a little light trimming with a hand saw. I did sew on some webbing to give myself soft loops for side dee rings.

But if I am going to be hanging on the rope a lot, or using the chainsaw, then I go with the arborist saddle. They both seem to have a niche to fill.


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## 046 (Mar 29, 2008)

consider trying a hybrid saddle like New Tribe Tengu. light as a climbing saddle with support of an arborist saddle. 

just got one and love it! nice thing about working with New Tribe is you get to customize your saddle to your body dimensions. for instance I went with a large belt with medium leg straps... or what ever. 

New Tribe will customize your saddle with what ever extra straps, loops, etc ($30 + what ever you add). I went with a stainless pear instead of std triangle mailon rapide screw link. 

it's really nice to deal with folks that are tree climbers...

http://www.newtribe.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=32&products_id=307


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## Fallguy1960 (Mar 30, 2008)

Thanks Guys, I thought that was the deal. I have been looking at the New Tribe saddles. For me it will be used for more goofing off and some work.


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## lumberjack333 (Mar 30, 2008)

*black diamond*

Just getting into this industry myself, the saddle I own is a black diamond rock harness. Definatly could be a little more comfortable, but in comparison to some of the cheaper tree harnesses it really isn't that bad. I've been in a few different weaver saddles as well (not sure of exact models) during my co-op and now at my new job, they're definatly built for a heavier load and have a nicer variety of attachment point, side Ds and whatnot. In short, the rock harness is lighter and cheaper, with probably mid-range comfort, but regardless to the harness type I have yet to find one that doesn't put my legs to sleep after hanging in it for a while, I can probably last 20 - 30 min suspended in the black diamond before I have to stand up on something and let the blood through again. (Also I find that you can control where the pressure is between your waist and leg straps just by changing your body angle while on rope. Making any harness tolerable.)


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## Fallguy1960 (Mar 30, 2008)

Lumberjack333 I do know that the information I have on full-body harnesses for fall protection is that you can not hang for more than that 30 minute mark without flexing your leg muscles. If you don't the blood pools in your lower extremities and you can die. Tanks harnesses have foot straps so you can push against to keep the blood moving.


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## lumberjack333 (Mar 30, 2008)

Yeah I can't take any longer than that anyways, either wind up standing on a limb for a break or have to hit the ground again for some rest... the foot straps just gave me an interesting idea though, I suppose you could just climb with one or two prussik loops and use them on the climbing line as a foothold to take weight off the harness as well...


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## 046 (Mar 30, 2008)

a good reference is Tree Climbers Companion by Jeb Jebson
pretty much a must read for beginners ... 



lumberjack333 said:


> Yeah I can't take any longer than that anyways, either wind up standing on a limb for a break or have to hit the ground again for some rest... the foot straps just gave me an interesting idea though, I suppose you could just climb with one or two prussik loops and use them on the climbing line as a foothold to take weight off the harness as well...


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## lumberjack333 (Mar 30, 2008)

046 said:


> a good reference is Tree Climbers Companion by Jeb Jebson
> pretty much a must read for beginners ...



Bought mine in college  refer to it daily... would like to expand my library though, any others?


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## cb01 (Apr 1, 2008)

lumberjack333 said:


> Just getting into this industry myself, the saddle I own is a black diamond rock harness. Definatly could be a little more comfortable, but in comparison to some of the cheaper tree harnesses it really isn't that bad. I've been in a few different weaver saddles as well (not sure of exact models) during my co-op and now at my new job, they're definatly built for a heavier load and have a nicer variety of attachment point, side Ds and whatnot. In short, the rock harness is lighter and cheaper, with probably mid-range comfort, but regardless to the harness type I have yet to find one that doesn't put my legs to sleep after hanging in it for a while, I can probably last 20 - 30 min suspended in the black diamond before I have to stand up on something and let the blood through again. (Also I find that you can control where the pressure is between your waist and leg straps just by changing your body angle while on rope. Making any harness tolerable.)



You might want to do a search on suspention trama. It can be a life threatning situation. It deals with a person hanging in a harness for a extended period of time (like in a rescue situation, or hanging around not using legs). From my research, it seems more prevelent in leg straps. I prefer a butt strap myself. (I know its old fashioned, but thats how I learned). I don't mean to cause any worry, but as a climber it is something to be aware of for yourself, or god forbid you ever get involved in a tree rescue.


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## lumberjack333 (Apr 1, 2008)

Thanks cb01, I love this site... get warned about hazards I never would have thought to be life threatening. I don't spend too much time suspended, usually on a limb or climbing to one, and I'll certainly spend less time "hangin around" now. I'm gonna look into suspension trauma as well, thanks again!


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## oldirty (Apr 1, 2008)

fundamentals of general tree work. it the bible of tree work. written by GF Beranek.

get out of that saddle and into a tree climbing saddle bub.


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## lumberjack333 (Apr 2, 2008)

Next investment oldirty


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## treemandan (Apr 2, 2008)

moray said:


> First of all, rock-climbing harnesses are not "junk". I have one that I prefer over my much-more-expensive arborist saddle when I want to do a quick climb for exercise or even to do a little light trimming with a hand saw. I did sew on some webbing to give myself soft loops for side dee rings.
> 
> But if I am going to be hanging on the rope a lot, or using the chainsaw, then I go with the arborist saddle. They both seem to have a niche to fill.



I sometimes would like to use the rock saddle but never do. It would be nice to have a light saddle for light work. 
What in the hell did you SEW your saddle with? Sew as in sew, or like SEW? On D rings?


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## treemandan (Apr 2, 2008)

tomtrees58 said:


> come on do you think we climb 150 ft trees with junk tom trees hope this helps



first saddle was made of climbing line hurt bad


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## cb01 (Apr 2, 2008)

treemandan said:


> first saddle was made of climbing line hurt bad



I learned to repell on that same saddle over 30 yrs. ago. Not comfortable at all


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## moray (Apr 3, 2008)

treemandan said:


> ... What in the hell did you SEW your saddle with? Sew as in sew, or like SEW? On D rings?



Sew as in SEW. I used a stitching awl and 1-inch tubular webbing to make essentially an eye-and-eye sling with 3 layers of material across the middle. The eyes are the "dee rings". The middle was heavily stitched. Then it was lightly stitched around the back of the saddle. Bulletproof and comfortable in normal use, but all bets are off in some sort of nasty fall against the safety lanyard. It won't break, but would probably rip loose from the saddle. Don't take a nasty fall.


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## treemandan (Apr 3, 2008)

moray said:


> Sew as in SEW. I used a stitching awl and 1-inch tubular webbing to make essentially an eye-and-eye sling with 3 layers of material across the middle. The eyes are the "dee rings". The middle was heavily stitched. Then it was lightly stitched around the back of the saddle. Bulletproof and comfortable in normal use, but all bets are off in some sort of nasty fall against the safety lanyard. It won't break, but would probably rip loose from the saddle. Don't take a nasty fall.



Sounds OK. My friends dad accounted the time he fell bad from climbing on clothesline and his belt loops. I didn't think I heard him right when he told me, I hope he is the only one that dumb.


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## charlybldr (Apr 8, 2008)

cb01 said:


> You might want to do a search on suspention trama.




Check out the link in Tom Dunlap's post under Commercial Tree Care and Climbing. "Suspension Trauma." Very informative.

A very real danger for someone hanging immobile in a harness.


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## treemandan (Apr 8, 2008)

charlybldr said:


> Check out the link in Tom Dunlap's post under Commercial Tree Care and Climbing. "Suspension Trauma." Very informative.
> 
> A very real danger for someone hanging immobile in a harness.



Something to think about with every move.


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