# White pine cabin logs



## Ryan Willock (May 29, 2006)

Has anyone milled white pine to build their own cabin? I've been thinking about milling some white pine to build my own log cabin and have been told that green logs will work just fine. Thoughts, comments?


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## MotorSeven (May 29, 2006)

Ryan,
For me i will never build another log home out of pine. Used Southern yellow pine in TX and it was constantly under attack by termites. I don't think that white pine is much more bug resistant, so if it were me i would look at hemlock, cedar or cypress. They do cost 15-20% more, but will way out last pine. I am going to use eastern red cedar when i start logging and milling on my place at the end of this year. If you are not logging your own trees, look for a local mill that can get a more bug resistant species. Here in TN cedar is relativly inexpensive, and may not be any more than pine. Just my opinion... 

RD


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## coveredinsap (May 29, 2006)

It depends on how long you want the cabin to last. In my experience, untreated pine logs after about 20 years generally have a sufficient amount of bug damage to require extensive renovation.


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## Lakeside53 (May 29, 2006)

coveredinsap said:


> It depends on how long you want the cabin to last. In my experience, untreated pine logs after about 20 years generally have a sufficient amount of bug damage to require extensive renovation.




so... you've built log cabins too?

The question was "Has anyone milled white pine to build their own cabin?". Surely this will depend on the location, coatings, roof and foundation? Not everyone builds with a dirt floor.

Ryan - check out this guys posts all over AS before you put too much stock in what he says.


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## THALL10326 (May 29, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> so... you've built log cabins too?
> 
> The question was "Has anyone milled white pine to build their own cabin?". Surely this will depend on the location, coatings, roof and foundation? Not everyone builds with a dirt floor.
> 
> Ryan - check out this guys posts all over AS before you put too much stock in what he says.



Lake keep that bug on the run, we'll soon be rid of that pest, I mean cricket,lol


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## coveredinsap (May 30, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> so... you've built log cabins too?
> 
> The question was "Has anyone milled white pine to build their own cabin?". Surely this will depend on the Not everyone builds with a dirt floor.
> 
> Ryan - check out this guys posts all over AS before you put too much stock in what he says.



Most recently a log cabin restoration in 2001. It was a pine log cabin built in the early 1980's. Pretty extensive bug and dryrot damage on some of the supporting floor beams (the cabin was next to a river so it was up on concrete pilings), and lower wall timbers, and pretty extensive dryrot and bug damage on the south facing walls. I had to jack up the entire side of the cabin using 20-ton bottle jacks, remove the bad supporting floor girders and insert new ones where needed. The bad parts of wall logs had to be cut out and replaced with good logs. Pretty extensive damage, actually....I was surprised...the thing _looked_ 40+ years old.

Yes, of course it varies somewhat by "location, coatings, roof and foundation". That goes without saying....as in "duh".


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## ShoerFast (May 30, 2006)

coveredinsap said:


> Most recently a log cabin restoration in 2001. It was a pine log cabin built in the early 1980's. Pretty extensive bug and dryrot damage on some of the supporting floor beams (the cabin was next to a river so it was up on concrete pilings), and lower wall timbers, and pretty extensive dryrot and bug damage on the south facing walls. I had to jack up the entire side of the cabin using 20-ton bottle jacks, remove the bad supporting floor girders and insert new ones where needed. The bad parts of wall logs had to be cut out and replaced with good logs. Pretty extensive damage, actually....I was surprised...the thing _looked_ 40+ years old.
> 
> Yes, of course it varies somewhat by "location, coatings, roof and foundation". That goes without saying....as in "duh".




Crickets every were I bet!


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## Lakeside53 (May 30, 2006)

coveredinsap said:


> Yes, of course it varies somewhat by "location, coatings, roof and foundation". That goes without saying....as in "duh".



Duh...so quit just saying "will last only 20 years" etc. I can show you cabins that have been up for over 100 years made from Lodgepole and other softwoods that are still in decent shape... and have my initials carved into repairs... and some that have been up 15 that are in trouble. Construction technique is as important as materials, but then again, you know this Mr. Carpenter extraordinarie... 

As for "dryrot", there is no such thing (other then the common misuse of the term)... moisture was getting to the timbers some how..


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## coveredinsap (May 30, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> Duh...so quit just saying "will last only 20 years" etc. I can show you cabins that have been up for over 100 years made from Lodgepole and other softwoods that are still in decent shape... and have my initials carved into repairs... and some that have been up 15 that are in trouble. Construction technique is as important as materials, but then again, you know this Mr. Carpenter extraordinarie...
> 
> As for "dryrot", there is not such thing (other then the common misuse of the term)... moisture was getting to the timbers some how..



Uh, stick to selling chainsaws, Sherlock, as wood is not your forte.

_*dry rot*

fungus disease that attacks both softwood and hardwood timber. Destruction of the cellulose causes discoloration and eventual crumbling of the wood. This frequently results in the collapse of wooden structures such as house flooring, mine shafts, and ship hulls. Because the fungi require moisture for growth, dry rot occurs most often in places where the ventilation is poor or humidity is high or when the wood has been improperly seasoned. In the United States it is most frequently caused by a pore fungus (Poria incrassata) and by the dry-rot, or house, fungus (Merulis lacrymans). It may be prevented by application of creosote or other preservatives. Dry rot sometimes attacks standing conifers. The name is also used for other fungus diseases that attack the roots or stems of plants (see diseases of plants)._

Sure there are exceptions, such as what you speak of. There are _always_ exceptions. However, pine logs lasting much more than 20 years or so is more the exception rather than the rule.

By the way, if you noticed in my earlier post, most of the dryrot damage to the pine logs was on the south, or sunny side of the structure....not the damp(north) or weather (west) side of the structure. While dry rot may require moisture for the fungus to get a foothold, you seem to find it most often on southern (sunny & very dry) exposures of structures.


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## aggiewoodbutchr (May 30, 2006)

Ryan Willock said:


> Has anyone milled white pine to build their own cabin? I've been thinking about milling some white pine to build my own log cabin and have been told that green logs will work just fine. Thoughts, comments?



I haven't used white pine, only SYP. But, based on my experience, be careful using green logs. I'm sure it can be done but we air dried our logs for about 6-12 months. The final structure shrunk as much as 2" with in a year as the logs continued to dry. We allowed for this so it didn't cause any problems. I'll pull out my books later and check how white pine shrinks relative to SYP.


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## Lakeside53 (May 30, 2006)

sure google genius...

from your own quote; 

"*Because the fungi require moisture for growth,* dry rot occurs most often in places where the ventilation is poor or humidity is high or when the wood has been improperly seasoned".

My point being simply that moisture is required.. If you control the moisture, "dry" rot is a non-issue. 

Improper construction or lack of maintenance is the primary cause of wood failure... but you know all of this...

As for : "While dry rot may require moisture for the fungus to get a foothold, you seem to find it most often on southern (sunny & very dry) exposures of structures".

So.. do you know why? I do, but it's for you to answer... Hint.... read your own googling.


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## ShoerFast (May 30, 2006)

Ryan

Normally I would not have responded to a treadlike this with advice , as I don't feel that I have a lot of exposure to using White Pine for cabins.

But I do feel I have seen a lot of the fungus, "_coveredinwhitepinesap_" ,try to derail numerous treads, and simply as a fellow member apologies for numb-nutz like that.

As for on line friends, I do not know anybody that chainsaw mills more lumber in humid climates then Lakeside53, and like most others here when they say something when they mean it, seen it, lived it, know it, wrote or helped White the book, or the book is about them,,,,,,,,,,sap is just another story!

This mornings cup of coffee was a learning experience, as I'm curious also!

Here seem to be some people that seem to know what there talking about, I'll start with a quoted sentence , paragraph, and then there web link,,,,,,,

*"Dry rot is actually a misnomer, since there is no way for dry wood to rot."*

"_Fungi are microscopic plants that grow on and extract sugars from the cellulose structure of wood. This process causes the wood to deteriorate. While there are about *100,000 species of fungi*, the decay they cause in log homes is usually categorized broadly under the headings of white rot, brown rot, "dry" rot, and bracket fungi. White rot affects the sapwood (exterior portion) of a log and causes the wood to shrink and collapse over time. The rotted wood has a light color and appears stringy. Brown rot also named for its color, cracks wood across the grain. Dry rot is actually a misnomer, since there is no way for dry wood to rot. This name is usually applied to dry wood that has been severely degraded by brown rot and appears fragile and powdery. Bracket fungi are akin to mushrooms. If a homeowner sees them protruding from a log, it could be a sign of extensive wood damage._ "

http://www.logcareproducts.com/caretips/lhcmaint/standtime.html

For a time, the member sap just seems to want to derail treads, and is making it easy to recommend anything but what he may say, with other web, and expert advice.

slap is just going to cost some members a lot of money with his bum advice,,,,,, unless you think using abrasive pads for chainsaw air-filters is a good idea, take him with a grain of salt.
Kevin


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## BlueRidgeMark (May 30, 2006)

Guys, I'm no fan of The Sap, but whacking him for using a universally used term because it's not quite technically correct is pretty lame. We all know what the term means.


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## Lakeside53 (May 30, 2006)

BlueRidgeMark said:


> Guys, I'm no fan of The Sap, but whacking him for using a universally used term because it's not quite technically correct is pretty lame. We all know what the term means.




Maybe so, but sap obviously doens't know what it means! Let's see if he get the correct answer to why it shows up more on the "dry" side of the building.


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## Sawyer Rob (May 30, 2006)

I can tell you that a lot of the old barns around here were built from white pine sawn right off the land they are still standing on. Many were built more than 80 years ago and have 12x12 timbers in them. White pine has lasted just fine in them...

I think what it's "really" about is how well the wood is treated over the years with keeping it dry ect...

Rob


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## Lakeside53 (May 30, 2006)

Sawyer Rob said:


> I think what it's "really" about is how well the wood is treated over the years with keeping it dry ect...
> 
> Rob



bingo! 

Nothing like big eaves, dry foundation, ventilation, regular maintenance (like roofing, paint or whatever..)...


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## Ryan Willock (May 30, 2006)

For starters let me say that this mindless offtopic bantering is why myself and others rarely post or check in anymore..... Its gotten to be a wast of time for the most part.

Thanks Rob and Lakeside for actually CONTRIBUTING to the thread! I've built other buildings out of green white pine but I was wondering about the timbers. I know that white pine is a very stable wood and that it has less than 5% shrinkage and that it is NOT prone to warping. It also is not know for twisting as it dries. As for the insect aspect where did I ever mention that it would not be treated with a preseverative??? :sword:


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## Lakeside53 (May 31, 2006)

Ryan Willock said:


> For starters let me say that this mindless offtopic bantering is why myself and others rarely post or check in anymore..... Its gotten to be a wast of time for the most part.
> 
> Thanks Rob and Lakeside for actually CONTRIBUTING to the thread! I've built other buildings out of green white pine but I was wondering about the timbers. I know that white pine is a very stable wood and that it has less than 5% shrinkage and that it is NOT prone to warping. It also is not know for twisting as it dries. As for the insect aspect where did I ever mention that it would not be treated with a preseverative??? :sword:




Post some pictures...


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## Newfie (May 31, 2006)

Almost all log cabins are made from white pine logs in this area. Hardwood is too valuable, cedar too small, hemlock too much taper. Like others have offered, allow for shrinkage and movement and all will be well. Well preserved and on a strong foundation and you'll never have to call Sap in your lifetime to replace your "girders".


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## Ryan Willock (May 31, 2006)

Newfie, how do you allow for shrinkage?


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## Newfie (Jun 1, 2006)

Ryan Willock said:


> Newfie, how do you allow for shrinkage?



I avoid cold water..... but seriously folks....


In terms of how you construct other bits of the cabin that are not of log construction or interior log walls. Everything is allowed to slide in slots milled into the exterior walls. That way, when one portion of the structure shrinks faster than another there is some room for "slippage" and things stay level in relation to each other rather than binding or bending.


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## aggiewoodbutchr (Jun 1, 2006)

Ryan Willock said:


> Newfie, how do you allow for shrinkage?



In our cabin we slotted the holes on everything that was bolted to the exterior walls. We also left the window and door rough openings 3/4" taller than usual.


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## scooter90 (Jul 12, 2018)

Ryan Willock said:


> Has anyone milled white pine to build their own cabin? I've been thinking about milling some white pine to build my own log cabin and have been told that green logs will work just fine. Thoughts, comments?


I'm currently constructing a white pine timber cabin (using 5x10s) in western New York. The lumber was milled in February and I cut the dovetail ends in June. I'm using Larch for my first course and setting it on masonry piers minimum of 8" off the ground. I intent to place a visqueen moisture barrier between the ground and the footprint of the building as well as 24" overhangs and a site graded away from the structure.
. I think the cabin will get adequate sun so that excess moisture won't be a problem. Hopefully the cabin is still standing long after I'm gone


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## rarefish383 (Jul 15, 2018)

scooter90 said:


> I'm currently constructing a white pine timber cabin (using 5x10s) in western New York. The lumber was milled in February and I cut the dovetail ends in June. I'm using Larch for my first course and setting it on masonry piers minimum of 8" off the ground. I intent to place a visqueen moisture barrier between the ground and the footprint of the building as well as 24" overhangs and a site graded away from the structure.View attachment 662565
> . I think the cabin will get adequate sun so that excess moisture won't be a problem. Hopefully the cabin is still standing long after I'm gone


Hey, Scooter. You managed to pull up a very old thread, most of those guys are gone. No problem, your cabin looks good. Welcome aboard. If you want to start a new thread you may get more activity on it. I plan on building one on my hunting property in WV. I have several White Pine that are close to 40" DBH, and lots of White Oak in the 24" range. I'm leaning toward the Pine, just can't bring myself to take down the Oaks.. I built a 16X20 shed 30+ years ago and used pressure treated 4X4's to keep it off the ground. All the rest was standard framing 2X4's. Every one said the shed would rot and cave in in a few years. It's still standing with my wood shop in it. ZERO rot anywhere. Plenty of overhang keeps everything dry, that's all it takes. If my cabin last that long, I'll be dead and gone when the kids bull doze it.


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## SeMoTony (Jul 21, 2018)

Ryan Willock said:


> Has anyone milled white pine to build their own cabin? I've been thinking about milling some white pine to build my own log cabin and have been told that green logs will work just fine. Thoughts, comments?


I'm in the midst of reading a book on timber framing. White pine is highly recommended for ease of forming the joints, and the minimum amount of shrink, twist or any of the other side effects of drying. The book says the only wood more stable is red cedar.
Seems like good to go


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