# log splitter



## dad2_5

I just bought and installed a wood burning furnace in my house. I now need to spend my spare time cutting and splitting between 6 and 8 full cords of hardwood each year to season down for the next winter. My question is this: Does anyone out there have a recommendation for me as to what brand and specs I should consider when buying a gas powered log splitter?


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## jokers

Hi Dad, In all seriousness you might want to try a 6# splitting maul. If the wood is not huge or stringy the maul is faster unless you spend big bucks for a multisplit machine. You will also find that the split wood ends up splitting cleaner with the maul so it stacks nicer. I find the maul easier on the back too and you would be surprised how much you can split, even if you only work for an hour a day after your regular job. Welcome to AS. Russ


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## Marky Mark

*Split wood not atoms*

I will be splitting maybe 10 cords a year and here is what I did.

I just picked up a Timberwolf 2-HD they have others but I like the idea of the trailer hitch in the front and the wood coming out the rear. I looked at several, I wanted to be able to tow it with my quad, full-size tires,4 way wedge, Honda motor and something built strong. The Troy Built now an Mtd product didn’t seem strong to me and I didn’t like the idea of the wedge on the piston. I was also hesitant about the hydraulic pump underneath the axle, my property has a lot of rocks and with my luck I would leave some parts behind. If the wedge is on the piston I don’t think you could have a four-way wedge and I wanted that since the wood I split isn’t huge.

Another machine was the Bachtold Brothers Brute I drove 2 hours to look at it and if you go to there site you can see it has a tray that holds the wood on one side if you want to split the piece again it stays on the tray. The way it was explained to me you would have to physically remove that piece after it was split. 

The Timberwolf HD-2 is more than I need and I could have gotten by with a TW-1 but to me it is a strong machine. I went to there shop and looked at them all. They are located in VT I purchased the splitter in NH since it is 20 miles from my place Another splitter was on the Baileys site they are Lickety Splitters, in my area I couldn’t find one to look at but from what I read on the web they are good machines. 

Another one was made in VT by Spruce Ridge they were geared for production and their entry-level model was to kill for it was also $4800. This gent built the original Brute in Maine but had some Money problems sold and started back up under another name.

Last but not least check out some cool flash clips on www.oddtodd.com



www.baileysonline.com

http://www.timberwolfcorp.com/splitters/tw2hd/tw2hd.htm

http://www.logsplitters.com/logsplitters.htm 

http://www.troybilt.com/servlet/BrandProduct?ID=122&CAT=6 

http://www.canns-bilco.com/powerteksplitters.htm

http://www.bachtoldbros.com/products/commercial/logsplitters.asp


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## Ryan Willock

Dad, i split 20-30 cords a year with a 8# maul and don't have a problem at all. its easier than you would think after a little practice:angel:


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## jokers

Hey! What`s wrong with splitting atoms? I even like to have a few elastic collisions myself. If this is the way you guys are going to be I`m going fission. Russ


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## bwalker

Has anyone used the flywheel inertia type splitters. they seem pretty cool, but i wonder how they would work in big hard oak and maple.


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## Marky Mark

*Like this one*

Here is one I am still trying to figure out.

http://www.thestickler.com/stickler.cfm

Could this thing be legal in the lower 48 or just were Dennis lives.


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## nelly

I have some elm for those that want to split with a maul. stringiest @#$% you ever did run into. If you use a splitter you have to send the piston as far as it goes, then you have to pull the rest apart by hand.

I alos use a maul, ax or wedges. Whatever seems to work best in that kind of wood. Have fun with your new splitter.


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## Gypo Logger

Although I used a Brute Splitter, coupled with a 24' conveyor in my firewood days, I now split with a 6# maul for personal use, however, any pesky blocks that wont jump right open at the mere sight of the maul, I split them with my chainsaw.
A Newfie went to the airport to ask for a job cutting firewood. He was told he came to the wrong place. "Not true", he replied, "I cut it, he pilot".
John


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## Tony Snyder

There are so many brands; I don't know what would be available in your local.

In this area (East central Illinois) we have Rural King farm stores. The have a splitter that swivels whorizontal or vertical. I bought one for $899. It has done well. Don't know the brand; it is at the farm and I am here in town at home.

You will have minor problems with any power splitter; things shake loose, leaks, stale fuel and gum from setting. I have had zero problems yet with this one, but it is kept inside and used frequently.


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## daveb

I bought a 31 ton splitter at Home Depot for $1300. Best splitter I could find for the money. It is branded MTD, but I have seen the same splitter branded Cub Cadet at almost twice the money just for the name I guess. I question as to whether the maul is faster. I can split a lot of wood in a short time and it's easier on my back.


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## Dieselnut

One of the best investments I have ever made, was putting the green down on a log splitter! I cut and split about 14 cords of wood a yr. I used to split with just a 6# maul, but even when it is good wood to work with, I would still throw my back out. I have just got a plain jane MTD 20 ton, but wish I would have gotton a 30 ton-even though this has split everything that has been thrown to it. I would recommend you get one that is both vert and Horz, I almost always use vert. It has been going strong for the las 5 yrs, so I spoiled it and changed the filters and gave her a tune up this yr. This is one peice of equipment that I will always have-if I heat by wood!


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## tony marks

anybody got any idea how that thing using the rear drive wheel of a truck could work. just curious as it also looks like a good way to mess up the rear end of u truck. 
oh well time to go out and split some sweet gum w my maul.not


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## HomeDelight Man

Hello, Last spring my father purchased a Powertec log splitter. It has a 8 HP Honda, one pull beauty, and a 26 ton ram. I like the splitter! He also got the optionable trailering package with indepent suspension, hi-way tires, full size fenders, and trailer lights. It works good and is easy to trailer to my house!! Jonathan


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## buckwheat

*"the stickler"*

My brother-in-law has an older Deere 12 horse garden tractor with a rotating cone type splitter that runs off the pto. Unlike the Stickler, this has a handle for engaging the rotation. It's really unusual, but works like a charm for his 10+ cords/yr. If the tractor ever dies, he'll probably just buy an engine and mount it on a trailer.
That Stickler thing is $250, plus you have to jack up the rear of your truck to get it to work.


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## Dennis

*moved thread*

Dad2, I didnt realize that Brian had mentioned to you to post this topic on chainsaw. He is correct in the fact that there are alot of firewood guys over there, and many of them dont realize the other forums exist. On the same token, this particular thread doesnt belong there, and by moving them (it) out of chainsaw, I am hoping we can get these guys to understand that there are more than just chainsaws on Arboristsite. I think it is a good thing that off topic threads are started in chainsaw, so we can move them to the appropriate thread, and help people navigate the whole site.

On topic now...I used an MTD "White" branded splitter for some time, and quite liked it. 
There is another splitter out there made by a company called "Gripo". Honda powered. This particular machine doesnt use hydralics, but some sort of torque converter? or belt system..(I am looking into it now) The cycle time is only 3 SECONDS!!! The force applied to the log is 20-28000 lbs. If anyone else knows anything about this splitter hopefully they can share it with us.


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## bwalker

> There is another splitter out there made by a company called "Gripo". Honda powered. This particular machine doesnt use hydralics, but some sort of torque converter? or belt system..(I am looking into it now) The cycle time is only 3 SECONDS!!! The force applied to the log is 20-28000 lbs. If anyone else knows anything about this splitter hopefully they can share it with us.


Thats the one i was talking about Dennis. It uses a flywheel to store energy and then releases it with great force to propel the wedge forawrd and split the log.


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## bwalker

Found it Dennis.

http://www.ripsaw.com/gfx.html


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## Dennis

Ben..i dont think that is the same splitter...This is an actual "Gripo" labelled splitter....and I dont recall any talk of a flywheel...I could be wrong though...was once before....1986, I think I am waiting for some faxes to show up on it...


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## bwalker

Let us know, it sounds interesting.


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## Bill G

Where do I start on the Stickler woodsplitter. They are the dumbest GD thing I have ever seen. That basic design has been around in other forms for years. Last winter I noticed these "sticklers" showing up on ebay. I always bookmarked them to see if anyone was dumb enough to buy them. I never sasw one sell. Well I must have missed one because a few months back a used one showed up and ebay and the damm thing sold for good money the second time around. I have never seen a more unsafe or ignorant attempt at splitting wood.

Bill


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## Tony Snyder

People are buying those outdoor wood furnaces like crazy around here. They are afraid of coming increases in heatin gass and oil prices.

It is spuring saw sales. A lot of the older poulans Mac's Homlites etc that havn't run much in fifteen years won't fire up anymore so they are running to the saw shop to update their saw.

We are seeing a resurgance in firewood cutting. (East central Illinois) Similar to 1981 but with the trend to outside furnaces.


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## jokers

*Screw Type Splitters*

I`m going to agree with Bill G on this premise. In the 70s when I was a teenager, my dad had one of those screw type splitters. I don`t recall the brand but it attached to the three point hitch and pto of a tractor. I fully credit the operating charcteristics of this beast with developing in me the skills that earned me a reputation as formidable fighter with great upper body strength and lightning fast hands and reflexes. His machine had a steel tip on an aluminum screw which needed periodic sharpening, but even when sharp it was often difficult to start into a chunk. So in order to start a round I would normally grab a piece with both hands and forcefully shove it on to the rotating screw to ensure engagement. Things were normally OK from this point as long as you engaged the piece perpendicular to the screw and an outboard brace/log rest this thing had built in to it. Fully supported, it would split nearly anything you could pick up. Miss perfect engagement however and you suddenly find your head and hands in close proximity to a rapidly (540 rpm) spinning chunk of tree. Just like the models that attach to the drive wheel of a vehicle, there was no handy way of rapid disengagement, but at least this model had the auxilary log rest to help prevent this, unlike the vehicle models I have seen which rely on contact with the ground. That was a machine which should have been outlawed. Happily, someone stole that setup from my father after too many years of ownership. Talk about an instant day of reckoning or judgement day, LOL. I too have one of the cheap MTD 20 ton splitters. I bought it for my stepdaughters and wife to use when they used to help me, probably 8 years ago. It has split a pretty good amount of wood for a cheap splitter with minimal repairs. We were splitting about 30-35 face cord a year with it, and frankly I don`t know what sort of abuse they subjected it too, but the only thing that needed any attention was the adjustable jib plate on the wedge, needed replacement twice, about $30 each time. Knowing the girls I know that it suffered unusual abuse, but I have also noticed that the new MTDs have a cast piece that the wedge rides on now, probably much tougher. I`d probably buy another if I needed a machine for homeowner use. Now that I am solely responsible for splitting the wood I normally just maul it as I cut it although sometimes if I`m into really big, 30" or more, rounds I will split them with the machine. Sorry about the long post. Russ


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## shoot501

I got one of the 26 ton Yard Machines from Wal-Mart, works very well with no problems for 2 years now. Good machine for the money, nothing it won't split, just not the quickest.


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## shoot501

I see where the Gripo splitter is being sold by Walkers saw shop.


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## bwalker

Dennis, I found the splitter you where looking for online.


http://www.gripo.com/frames.asp?Langue=A


It appears simular in design to the one I posted.


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## Dennis

that is the one Ben..thanks!!


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## bwalker

Have you ever used one Dennis? The cycle time is amazing, but I wonder if it has enough guts to slit nasty. notted hickory and oak.


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## Greenie

> _Originally posted by bwalker _
> *Have you ever used one Dennis? The cycle time is amazing, but I wonder if it has enough guts to slit nasty. notted hickory and oak. *



My father in law had one - it ran off an electric motor and was really fast. It split every chunk I tried, first try ( beech & maple mostly ) My Father in law kept the splitter for 10 years and then sold it - I wish I would have bought it.
It was fast and I imagine it had potential for doing some damage if the operator wasn't alert.


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## LostWater

*Splitting Hickory by maul is murder*

Hickory and Locust are the most prevalent hardwoods (other than soft poplar) around my parts. I am a big strapping dude, 6' 225#, not fat, and I found that splitting hickory with a number 8 or a monster maul to be outright sadism. The bark of the hickory is so tough that it actually holds the wood together. Then the hellish stuff is so stringy that most pieces would take 4 or 5 hits with a #8 to get it to split. In that 5 minutes that I was splitting one 16" diameter hickory chunk, I used my Brave (home crepo) to split 3 similar size pieces, and bonus, no pulled lower back.

My splitter is a brave with a 22 ton capacity, 5.5 OHV tecumseh. It has served me very well for three years now with little maintenance. ($999)

Unless you split dry poplar or dry oak, a maul is no way to go if you split a bunch of wood.

Kindest Regards,

Mark


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## dad2_5

Thanks for the info guys. I am trying to find a quality product that will last a VERY long time, as my wood furnace is only in it's 2nd winter and I plan on burning for many to come. I recently saw that the Lowe's in my area has the Troy-Built 33 ton w/5.5 Honda motor for about $1400, I think the cyle time was about 13 sec. 

Anybody have any thoughts on the Troy-Built product??

Thanks again, I appreciate the insight.


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## bwalker

> Anybody have any thoughts on the Troy-Built product??


Yes, your log splitter is identical to a mtd and the mtd is abit cheaper form what i have seen. MTD bought Troybuilt. Troybuilt still makes there own tillers though.


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## treeclimber165

*not that I have tons of experience with them....*

but I'd think the Honda motor would last longer than the Briggs. It's been 12 years since I messed with many small 4 cycle engines. Are any splitter makers using the Kawasaki motors yet?


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## Marky Mark

*Troy Built*

Sorry to say Troy Bilt was taken over a few years ago. MTD has the name and produces crap. http://www.mtdproducts.com/index.jsp


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## Bill G

dad2_5,

I am far from and expert but I would like to know where troy-bilt or MTD comes up with 33 ton out of a 5.5 Hp motor. The biggest pump I believe that motor will operate I believe is a 11 gpm. Now I realize you can still develop pressure at a low flow rate I am pretty sure the 13 second cycle time they quote which get much longer when developing 33 ton of force. The Northern Hydraulics splitters have the following specifications. A 20 ton has a 5hp Honda and a 11gpm pump ($999). A 24 ton has a 8hp Briggs and a 16gpm pump($1499). A 30 ton has a 13hp Honda and a 22pm pump($2199). The 20 and 24 ton splitters are quoted at 14 second cycle time. No time quoted for the 30 ton. Like I said earlier I am far from an expert but I am just stating my opinion.

Bill


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## jokers

I have to agree with BillG, I think that about 20 ton is the max you are going to get with a 5 horse motor. More food for thought, and I `m sure that some of you will find this blasphemous, but the Honda motors use some sort of trickery to achieve a rated horsepower. For example, identical splitters coupled to Briggs or Tecumseh engines will produce more spliiting force than one coupled to a 5.5 Honda. I had this demonstrated to me by a friend who is an *** retailer when I was complaining about the output of my 25oo watt Honda generator being embarrased by an el cheapo Homelite with a Briggs engine. Although the Honda is a nicer engine, smoother and quieter also more fuel efficient, I think you would need a much larger engine with a much higher cost to do the work of a cheap MTD. Russ


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## bwalker

Russ, The reason the are quiter, more fuel efficiant,etc is because many times from the factory honda sets the rpm's too low. Most people never know the differance. I always reset mine with a tack. I also have a sears lawn more witha 22hp briggs on it that when I got it home would barely cut. It had the rpm set too low also.


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## dad2_5

Sorry for the mistake guys, I checked the specs again. The 5.5 Honda is on a 27 ton splitter. But the price is still $1400. I see that MTD also owns Yard Machine and Cub Cadet, are the MTD products in general NOT a good product?

Side note: our local TSC (Tractor Supply Company) sells Huskee products, how do they compare in quality?


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## bwalker

MTD really isnt known for good quality. The have a rep for buying companies held in high regards such as Troy built and cub cadet to captializen on there name. Sort of like Husky pawning off rebadged poulans as husky and jonsereds.


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## jokers

*RPMs too low*

Hi Ben, interesting point about the rpms but with a generator you have to set the loaded rpms such that you are putting out 120vac and the frequency is correct at this rpm due to the design and construction of the generator. I was trying to run a 15 amp saw on a 12 ga, 50' extension at a camp we were building and it just wouldn`t spin up, so this guy literally drags this old Homelite out of the bushes, fires it up, and takes my cord and plugs it in and away we go. I was pretty disappointed with the Honda that day. BTW, it is a Honda generator coupled to the Honda engine.

Back to splitters. The MTD may be all you need as a homeowner, but remember, there is no free lunch. You will be giving up something by paying less, but it may be insignificant. 6 to 8 full cord is not all that much to have to split annually, probably any machine will serve you well. I saw a 20ton splitter in the Harbor Freight catalog for $799. They always used to have free shipping on orders over $50. Good luck in your decision. Russ


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## daveb

BillG, I have been pleased with the 31 ton splitter I bought at home depot. I know that MTD is not known for high quality, but this unit seems to be built well. At $1300, it was the strongest splitter I could find for the money. BTW it has an 8hp Briggs I/C engine, 16 gpm two stage pump and a 15 sec. cycle time.


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## bwalker

Russ, Thats a reallyodd situation youe described. Your generator should have ran that no problem. Maybe soemthing is wrong with the generator itself? We have a honda at our camp that has been going strong since my dad got it in about 1980. About the only thing we do to it maintenance wise is change the oil once a year.
Back to the splitters. If I where to buy a hydraulic unit I would probaly get one form Northern tool. Good value IMO. Maybe not as good as a timberwolf, but close and the cost a whole lot less. What I want to know is has anyone ran one of the intertia powered splitters?


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## Bill G

Dave,
I was trying to knock MTD or any other brand I was just pointing out a thougt. I am glad you are happy with your machine. Here is another observation that may make some Honda fans mad. While I am sure they have some great engines they also have some crappy ones also. I have heard of a great deal of 5Hp horz OHV motors that were sent back for recall work because of plastic cam gears. Now I am not knoocking Honda as I have had many many Honda ATV's and have had no complaints at all. I have one that has been stolen twice and now has basically no compression from being beat so hard it is a damm shame. I believe with a little ether it will still run. How is that for realiability. 

Bill


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## Bill G

Here is another splitter to consider for those of you that are serious about high speed splitting. Just down the road from me is the Blockbuster company. They manufacture and sell firewood processors. They also build a re-splitter. It is a skid type splitter designed for high speed re-splitting of pieces from a processor. It is high speed but not as high speed as the flywheel splitters. It uses a 10Hp Kohler engine and boasts a 6 second cycle time. That is really fast for a hydraulic splitter. It has a 3 way head and a 20 gallon oil tank. It is a top notch machine but comes at a top notch price. It sells for $4500.

Bill G


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## django

Hello all,
It's been a little while since I looked at the various forums and was interested to see this topic being discussed because I am in the process of building my own "flywheel" log splitter. Since buliding my outdoor waterstove ( pics are found on the off the topic forum) I am going through a a lot more wood than I used to when I used an indoor woodstove ( something all those folks buying these things are going to be made sorely aware of, I forsee a lot 
of theses babies being for sale used in the next few years when people that bought the sales pitch realize how much wood they use, especially if they buy thier firewood, plus they are very expensive to buy) So I decided I needed a splitter. I came across the Supersplit on the web and was intrigued by the theory, I contacted the company SEVERAL times and essentially got piss-poor service from them so I decided to build it. Considering the high price of thiers, there really is not all that much to them. I have never seen one in action, and mine will be different than what you can buy, but I can't imagine there will be anything it won't split. I'll keep you guys updated if you are interested. 
Here are the specs so far,
7.5 Wisconsin engine with 6:1 gear reducer ( 600rpm) belt driven to the flywheels.
2- 125lb flywheels 15" in dia. ( solid steel) ( I know this is not an ideal flywheel, but you use what you can find, yes, they are balanced)
The flywheels and pinion do not share a common shaft as on the commercial models, the pinoin will be turning 1/3 the RPM of the flywheels. Via #60 chain & sprockets.
All shafts turn in pillow blocks.
I beam is 6wx8hx1/2
Rack gear is # 8 pitch
Slide is full capture around the beam with nyloil bearings.
All these thing realyy are is a horiz. flywheel press. I toyed with the idea of using linkage arms instead of a rack gear but didn't.


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## Newfie

*the sky's the limit....*

Dad2_5,

As you've probably figured out you can spend a ton of money on a splitter. Just remember you can then figure that into your wood furnace investment and watch the number of years for the break-even point to increase.

I think for 6-8 cords a year cycle time on the splitter is irrelevant. 6 seconds versus 15 seconds is a noticable difference but are you going to realistically work at a six second pace?

I have a 27 ton cub cadet (yellow MTD ). I have split 45 full cords with it over the past 18 months and have had absolutely no problems with it. It is plenty fast enough to work at a nice even pace. Routine maintainence, cleaning and lubrication is all I have had to do. Proper maintainence and stored under cover, any decent splitter should last a long time.

Some of these other models out there have lots of bells and whistles. I have always tried to Keep It Simple. The more options the more things to maintain or repair.

Also don't mistake a higher price tag with better quality, because that isn't always the case.

If you do decide to buy one from one of the big box stores, it will be already assembled so check it over carefully. I walked away from the ones I saw at Home Depot because they had been left exposed to the elements and were rusting all over the place. Nobody wants to pay good money for a rusty POS.


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## Crofter

*Flywheel Inertia Splitter*

They advertise the fast cycle time as a selling point but it is visciously fast in action. pieces fly. Once you engage a cycle it goes full stroke instantly and ther is no stopping it part way like with hydraulic. If it does get stuck in a block there is no way to back up the ram. A commercial firewood guy I know bought one but he didnt have it long!

Frank


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## django

There is a little video on the supersplit website that shows it in action. I personally would not call it "viciously" fast, but that's me.
The cycle IS interuptable, you dis-engage the rack from the pinion by tapping down on it the handle. If your ram gets stuck, your flywheels will have stalled and you dis-engage the rack, let them spool up again, and hit the log with full force again. Cycle times are relevant to the energy being absorbed from the flywheels so a piece of ash is going to fly apart and a piece of elm would go slower.
I don't know what kind your buddy had, but 1 foot per second is not "blink of an eye" fast. Although if you had your hand or arm in harms way, I would say your gonna get hurt. I completely agree that if you split just a few cords per year, you don't need one at all. Personally, if that's all I wanted to split, I would pile up my wood, and rent one for a day, and split it . I decide to build mine because I am a toolmaker by profession, and a hydraulic model just didn't appeal to me as much as a mechanical one. 
Have a good one,
Steve


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## Crofter

Re Inertia splitter. Guess I missed that the stroke is interruptable. Watched them working with it a bit and it looked a bit scary. If you put the manpower around it to take advantage of the cycle time it can get pretty busy. My point I guess is that beyond a certain point, faster is not better. What cycle time will you have with the one you are building.

Frank


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## Toddppm

Django, please post pics of your progress if possible! Always interesting.

I've got the same splitter DaveB has, 31 ton MTD it has the 10 hp B+G , had it for about 8 yrs now? It's split alot of wood , haven't run into anything yet that it wouldn't split, big,small, knots whatever. 

I remember seeing pics of those screw type splitters on Model T's, that's how old that technology is!


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## django

I'll be glad to post pics. Don't be afraid to criticize/offer advice. 
I have very thick skin. Cut some red oak ( tops ) tonight, 20" dia.
It's 1/2 cured and dosen't split by hand worth a hoot. I need to get this thing done! ( there are'nt enough hours in the day, especially daylight)
See ya,
Steve


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## bwalker

Steve, I am interested in bulding a splitter as well. I like the idea of not messing with hydraulics and the fast cycle time of the inertia splitter. Do you have any plans/part list? How about some pics.


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## django

Hey BW, I would be more than happy to help as much as I can. It's slow going for me right now, too much else going on. I figure I'll be done in a mo. or so. As far as plans, I have hand drawn stuff probably only I can understand at this point(sketches, jibberish). I will post pics, when I get some, possibly as early as tonight. Mine is going to be different than the comm. ones, I am gear reducing via sprockets to keep the flywheels at a more consistent speed. There is other stuff the pics will explain. The main thing that I can help with is a parts list, once itis done, Thats half the battle. If I were you I would be looking for suitable flywheels right now. That's the hardest thing to aquire for reasonable $.


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## Crofter

*Flywheels*

A possible source is a farm implements wrecker. The old square hay balers have a good heavy flywheel also the old belt drive buzz saws. They have a standard sized bore so easier to adapt. The baler one has a sheer pin also. The heavier the flywheel the better as you dont have to turn it as fast and it will have more follow up. You can also get by with a very small engine if your flywheel is heavy. As I stated in a post earlier I felt that the cycle time was faster than necessary. You can hardly make use of it all unless you have a lot of manpower, so if you are building think about giving it a bit more power instead of speed. Just a thought.

Frank


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## django

Your right on the money, Crofter. That is my goal. However, 500lbs. of flywheel is more than I want to deal with. Mines definitely experimental. We shall see.
Steve


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## bwalker

What about using a wheel off of a small car? I think the wheel off a small car filled with lead shot would give the correct weight, be compact and easily balanced(on a tire amchine of course). Thoughts?


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## django

Oooh. I don't think the car wheel is a good idea. "easily balanced"
I am not too sure. Especially with lead shot. You would have to have a way to make sure that it didn't shift once you have it where you want it. Same thing for sand or concrete or anything that can move.Remember, if your gonna tow this thing that it has to stand up to rough roads and trails and potholes etc... And depending on the rpm your gonna turn, they need to be very well balanced. And it's not just rpm that you are concerned with, it's RIM speed. My wheels, at 600rpm, amd 14" dia.have a rim speed of over 26000 inches a min. I am gonna turn mine 600rpm initially, but the are balanced ( on their shafts ) to turn over 2000rpm. I agree wth Crofter that junked implements are a good place to look. I have an implement auction place 2mi. from where I work, and could have bought pretty good sized wheels. I wanted smaller, so I made them. I thought about using tractor wheel weights, but couldn't find a good deal. Whatever you use, balance is key, it makes more usable power, is easier on the bearings, and of course, safer. 
Have Fun!!
Steve


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## django

Some more thoughts to muddy the water: Yes, Large diameter , heavy flyweheels can be turned slower and yes, you can power them with a "small engine, however, a flywheel by nature, starts slowing down as soon as it starts to do any work. The engineering formula for them uses a no load speed and a speed when they have completed their task, and the percentage one to another determines the "capacity" of your system. Large heavy wheels have tremendous initial force, but they still slow down, and herein lies the rub. You need a decent "recovery" time. If your wheels take 10 seconds to spool back up once you have split a log, then your split time savings become pointless. If you do not let your wheels recover, you just keep going slower and slower.And the your recovery time will be long indeed. So if you use a big wheel, and you want fast recovery, you need horsepower. If you use smaller wheels and spin them faster, you will lose much more rpm as you perform your task, but your recovery time is short. However your cycle times become ( in my opinion) too fast unless you use some sort of reduction. I have a friend who is into antique tractors big time. Some of those old steam tractors have flywheels that are 6ft. across and turn so slow you wouldn't think they would do anything, but their rim speed is tremendous. What a log splitter they would make!! 
.


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## bwalker

Steve, Good idea about the gear reduction box. Supersplit sells a hd version with a 8 hp and a 2-1 gear reduction. The added torque mutiplication the gearbox provides would speed up recovery time. What is your target weight for the flywheel you plan to use
? what about using the flywheel off a large diesel engine?


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## django

The engine I am using is a Wisconsin 7.5 hp. with a 6:1 gear reduction. (600 rpm output) Keep in mind the commercial units use 2 flywheels, one on each side of the beam. A truck flywheel would be balanced, I dont know about weight. I am not at all impressed with supersplit as a company. I contacted them several times with question about their product ( NOT trying to find out how they are built, just general questions any consumer should ask before spending $4000 on a splitter) Their "customer service" sucks. The thing I don't understand about their splitters is just how fast the PINION is turning. If they run the engine at 3600rpm ( no reduction except for the pulleys from the engine to the flywheels ) It would take a massive pulley ( like 2 feet .) on the flywheels to slow the pinion down to a managable speed, assuming a very small pulley from the engine. I don't know if the rack gear shoots out at some absurd f.p.m. and slows immediately, or what. My flywheels are 125lb. each at a 14in. dia.
solid steel. What I have done is put the flywh. and pinion on 2 seperate shafts. The fly's turn 600 and then from the fly's to the pinion I use sprockets and # 60 chain to reduce the pinion down to 200 rpm. With my pinion pitch dia. this gives me a no load rack speed of a little over a foot per second, while theoretically maintaining a fairly constant flywheel speed. I will try to get some pictures posted this evening. All will be clearer then. Somethin to take note of: most geaboxes of a manageable size are not rated to handle the stress this type of machine will subject them to. 
Hence, the #60 chain.


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## bwalker

*gearbox stress*

I share the same thoughts on gearboxbox streess as you Steve. I thought about maybe using a cushon drive of off a pressure washer. These are sold by northern tool.


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## django

Sweeeet.


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## django

*Pictures*

Here's a couple of shots of what it looks like so far.
Steve


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## django

Other side.


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## Crofter

Nice looking work DJANGO I like your slide, looks like good anti bind qualities. What size is the roller chain. 60 or 80? How many ft. pounds energe will you have stored in the flywheels when they are wound up. I am just wondering if you stall the ram (and you will for some reason or other like a piece falling in cross grain) will the force be greater than the breaking strength of the chain. I could be all wet here but just check if you can to see what safety factor you have here. 

Lik at the split,
Frank


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## django

Thanks for the positive comments, Frank. The slide is also self-lubricating. As I have stated before (twice actually) the roller chain is #60. There are a couple of reasons for this: It is readily available to me at low cost. If I were to use #80 the smallest sprocket I could use would make the larger sprocket quite large and expensive. ( and probably unnecessary) I am sure there will be times when I'll run into something that will stall the machine, however I am willing to bet that the Drive Belt will slip before a #60 chain will break. The real test of the chain will be it's shock load, that's what I am curious about. As far as "foot pounds" of energy, I assume you want a torque number, and to be honest, I don't know. And to be really honest I am not sure it would really tell me anything, because I don't know how much torque I "need." Also, That number would only be relative to a "freewheeling" flywheel that wasn't being driven ( except for a "static" system, then the numbers would mean the same thing). To actually decipher the "power" of the system involves the kind of mathematics that I don't care to do, and I don't believe in the reliability of( too many variables.) The real proof is in the real world performance. From what I can tell so far, by how much the engine works to "spool up" the flywheels, I do this s-l-o-w-l-y- or it will just about kill the engine, I have some pretty good energy stored in the wheels.


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## jokers

Very interesting design Steve, nice work also. I was wondering how the slide is self lubricating? I can`t get into specifics, or recommend that you try this at home, lol, but I can tell you that #60 chain will withstand enough shockload to stall a 30hp two cylinder diesel engine. Thanks, Russ


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## django

You are my kind of people, Russ The slide is self lubricating via plates or if you will, bearings made from a material called Nyloil which is nylon impregnated with oil. It is excellent stuff, dense, hard ( for a plastic) and tough. You can't see this in the pics, but the I beam is fully captured by these plates.
I thought about using UHMW, Which is a polyethaline material that I used on the chain tightener,( it's used in a lot of food service app's,like cutting boards table tops, etc... VERY dense.) it has great wear resistance,and is "slippery", but like I always say, use what you can find.


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## Crofter

Jokers: 

Question? over what period of time. In how many revolutions would it drag it to a stall. If you have virtually instantaneous stall the forces are much higher than the engines 75 or so foot pounds torque. With Djangos splitter, if the ram jambs, the flywheel must stop also since there is solid mechanical connection through the roller chain. I would guess there would be at least 50 thoousand ft pd energy stored (25 ton) Does that sound right?These are the forces I feel the chain might be subjected to and question its strength. Think of the cross sectional area of the two side links and there is not a lot of area. The pin is only about 3/16" in diameter too, probably weaker than the side links even. We used roller chain to actuate the trombone of delimbers and saw lots of failures when subject to shock loading.
I'm not trying to be smart Joker, I'd like to pick your brain on installation details of boilers and a few other things I've read in your posts.

Frank


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## bwalker

At work we have a huge parts washer thats powered by a 60 hp electric motor. It uses#60 chain to rotate the heavy steel cleaning drum. I also might add that it gets next to no maintance and a chain last for about 3 years.


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## Crofter

Bwalker.

That roller chain will do well in a slow speed operation like you describe with the parts washer and the torque of a 60 hp motor at 1750 rpm. might be something in the neighbourhood of 100 pounds foot torque. That does not in any way extrapolate into it being similarly stressed in the splitter application. I think you are assuming that because only a 5 or 10 hp motor is being used to wind up this flywheel on the splitter that proportionate torque would come into play here. I am guessing because I can't find a chart which gives foot pounds of energy stored per pound foot per rpm of flywheel. I think something like 50,00 foot pounds of stored energy. Remember Django said it took a long time to spool up. When you have a lock up situation with a flywheel that energy is released instantly. There is no relief valve like in hydraulics. Please at least incorporate some manner of sheer pin. 

Frank


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## bwalker

Crofter, As django already pointed out the belt would slip before before the chain reached its failure point.


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## Crofter

BWalker

The belt is ahead of the flywheel in this system. It is not the torque of the motor that is of significance here, it is the energy stored in the 100 or so pounds of flywheel travelling at perhaps 1,500 feet per minute. This is what is hooked directly to that #60 roller chain and the ram. Ben you mess around with rifles too; we have discussed this in passing, do a calculation on that flywheel as if it were a bullet and what it would take to stop it. It definitely has more ft pds energy than your 460 Weatherby. Think about it.
Im not trying to be difficult and I AM talking about the worst case scenario of an instant and total lockup of the ram. I saw the results of what happened when a truck was towed with the starter drive engaged. When they popped the clutch the 15 or so to one ratio of the flywheel to starer drive spun the windings out of the armature and locked it up taking a chunk off the rear of the engine block and a huge piece out of the bell housing. The fellow actually thought someone had put a car bomb in his truck. Iwould feel better with a shear pin on that flywheel.


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## django

For the record, it's 250lbs of flywheel, and 2200 ft/[email protected]
Ever shoot a log with your Weatherby 460 and have complete and total lockup of the bullet?


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## bwalker

.


> The belt is ahead of the flywheel in this system.



Crofter, I failed to relise this point hence my comments


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## Crofter

Django, you are right in suggesting that my example of the bullet into wood wouldn't be total and instant lockup and I don't think you are likely to have it in your splitter either, unless someone feeds it a boulder. I suggest that you should be prepared for the unexpected though. I am probably guilty of a bit of overstatement to illustrate a point. There is much more energy hidden in that flywheel than meets the eye. Unlike in a hydraulic system, there is no safety relief valve. Could you perhaps put a 5/16 or 3/8 bolt throug either one of the roller chain sprockets and leave the key out at least until you try it on wood. The roller chain I spoke of on the the tree delimbers usually got broken by having the head hit the ground when the machine was being moved. The normal mode of being driven by the hydraulic motor caused no problems but the relief valve takes care of any overloads then. Its going to work!

Frank


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## django

*Flywheel Splitter*

Well, It's coming along. The only problem I am having to fight with is keeping the rack engaged in the pinion. There is a serious amount of force acting on that gear. I split some red oak and some smaller dia. elm without any prob. but when I tried an 18" Elm log it sorta blew my cam follower apart. And broke a tooth off my pinoin. And bent the 5/8 dia. shaft the camlock assy. pivots on.
So there is work to do yet. But I'm having fun. I think.
Django


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## django

*oops I did it again..............*

Well, I exploded it again, This doesn't make me look very smart, I know, but trial and error is what it's all about. I thought I had the whole cam follower thing figured out, I didnt. Next up, solid steel wheel with oil-bronze bushing. Good news is it took one NASTY crotch to do this. I split a bunch of oak logs before this, no problem. I wasn't going to split the crotch in the worst possible orientation, but I wanted to see what it would do. It broke. Absolutely shattered the cam follower. Before it broke I made it a good 8 in. into the crotch. My safety overload didn't trip, flywheels never even slowed down, so it may be too tight, but when I get pinion #3 (!) It's back at it.
Just letting those interested know how it's going. I can post pics of the carnage if you want to see what the damage looks like.
Django


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## kam

Yes , let's see the pics.


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## Crofter

Django: Is the rack and pinion a standard gearform tooth profile or one you milled out using the side of your running shoe. I am exaggerating here as I am known to do, but thinking that there shouldn' be that much thrust on the cam follower. How many teeth on the pinion?

Frank


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## django

I figured I may open myself to comments like that Frank, But arent you the guy who was so worried about how "powerful" this thing would be? And where exactly would you think all the reactive forces would go? I'm thinking you don't fully understand what is taking place at the union of the rack/pinion. The only way there wouldn't be a force trying to seperate the gears is if the mating surfaces were parallel to each other throughout their rotation, or "dovetailed". Not possible. There is a percentage of the in/out force if you will, that translates into an "up" or uncoupling force acting on the pressure angles. Imagine how much force is being exerted on the log.( before the follower shatters.) I've messed with spurs and racks for some time now, but haven't come across these types of forces. I am as surprised as the next guy.( hence the "learning curve") And what are you calling a "standard gearform" profile? 14 1/2 P.A. or 20 P.A.? There is enough uncoupling force to bend a 5/8 shaft that is only unsupported for 3/8 of an inch. That is some force. The pinion is an 8p 14T. P.D. of 1.75. It's not my first day.


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## Crofter

*Pressure angles.*

I can see you know what a standard gearform is. There is slightly more separation force with the one than the other but still much less than the longitudinal force on the rack. I do believe there is a sharp rise though below a certain number of teeth on the pinion. Don't be defensive, I,m not trying to tear it apart. I know what kind of forces are involved. Obviously you have lots of energy in the flywheel system. What was behind my question was the thought that a larger pinion even a couple of teeth might make a difference.


Frank


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## django

I'm not defensive, just responding in kind. There is most definitely a sharp rise with fewer teeth. Smaller radius etc.... The more teeth, the lower the "gear ratio, the faster it moves, the less torque it has, "(flywheel to pinion sfpm.), the less mechanical advantage. ...With a P.D. of 1.75 @ 200 rpm 
( [email protected]) the rack is moving fwd at 18 3/8 inches a second.Thats plenty fast. 2 more teeth is a P.D. of 2.00 = 21 inches a sec. or about 16% faster. I am trying to stay away from too fast, at the pinion. I started out with 12 teeth.
It is my guess that the comm. models have a special pinion shaft with a P.D. of 1" inch or so, gear teeth cut right in the "axle" this is the only way I see them being able to move at 1 foot a sec, and atill have the flywheels and pinion on the same shaft, and be able to spin the flywheels fast enough to make any power. That would be some pretty extreme seperation force. I could have made one of these, but the cost of the gear cutter was prohibitive, and I hate cutting gears, once you've seen a gear hob at work, all that time and effort seems kinda silly. I tried in vain to find one as a stock item with anybody. I am limited to the sprockets I have, unless I spend $100 or so for an even larger one. Really ,the thing works excellent. The way I broke it was to essentially try to break it. But I'm funny that way, gotta see what she'll do. Amazing power. Probably I could take 20lbs. or so off each flywheel and everything would be fine. But what fun would that be?


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## Crofter

Lol! Django, the reference to " traced out with the side of your running shoe" appies to a joke about a non standard wing chord. I was only wanting to eliminate possible mismatched tooth profiles causing excessive side thrust.
I was not suggesting to speed up the lineal speed of the rack but to increase the size of the driven sprocket and rack pinion. When you are working at close to minimum theoretical tooth count for a given pitch, they get very inefficient. Any springing that allows the pitch lines to separate at all, then skew the 14 or 20 degree pressure angles greatly. The ratio of side thrust to tangental force is no longer 1:5 or 1:7. The same separation from ideal has little effect when more teeth are in contact. The old lickety splitter that I did some repairs on had problems in the same area if I remember correctly. I didn't work on the whole, only some of the loose components. Django you have a difficult position to defend if it doesnt fly, since you are engineer, mechanic, and operator. Lol!

Frank


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## django

*Ratio's etc...*

Trust me ,if it doesn't work, you'll never know!! 
I understand what you are saying, just trying to make sure you understand what I'm saying. Let me re-state my goal for this bad boy, I want to build it as cheap as possible, from materials I can scrounge up. Otherwise I 'd just go buy one. I also understand that the laws of Physics couldn't care less. When you say to "increase the pinion by a couple of teeth" yeah, it would be nice to have a nice, large pinion, however to keep the fpm of the rack at anything close to sanity, you would need a sprocket the size of a garbage can lid. Or enormous flywheels spinning slowly. A sprocket like that new is hunderds of dollars, and I don't want 1000lbs of flywheel.You are right, the teeth must be kept in the proper mesh, at all times. Especailly with fewer teeth. I know this. They just have to be locked together with a little more authority. That's all. It does work.


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## django

*Pinion*

This is what happens when the rack/gear union comes un-coupled


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## bwalker

Ouch!


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## Crofter

*Re Stripped Pinion*

Django: is that pinion cast iron? I cant see enoug of the grain structure in the photo, but am guessing that it is. I somehow had in my mind that you were only running about 8 teeth but see that this is not the case, so a larger pinion wouldnt gain that much. Are the teeth machined out of the steel shaft on the factory job? If it was something like Superior shafting and heat treated it would have many times the strength of cast iron. Which failed first, the teeth or the engaging mechanism? Only questions not answers.

Frank


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## django

Well Hello there, Frank.
Steel gear. Martin brand. #S814. The engaging mech. failed first, allowing the rack/pinion to disengage enough for the pinion teeth to contact the rack on their tips, knocked 'em right off. What I am going to do after I rebuild things, is just run 1 flywheel and see what happens. Mine are much heavier than the commercial models, one may be enough.


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## django

*Well, Here she is.*

Finally got the thing done. Works like a charm. Here are some pics. Bare, and finished. Right side.


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## django

Left, bare.


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## django

finished, right.


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## django

Finished, left.


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## Crofter

*Nice looking Job*

All spit and polish now. We are waiting for a blow by blow description of how it works. How fast is the cycle time. If you split a really tough block do you have to wait at all for it to recover rpm. Can you abort under load. When is it going to be on the market. Do AS forum members get a discount?

Frank


















/


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## django

*One and only*

Cycle time is 2 seconds. Haven't found any wood yet to stall it significantly, and I've split up to 24" dia. I've split Hickory, Oak,Elm,etc... Ash and the like, I just use a maul. You can stop the cycle at any time. If it was commercialized, it wouldn't be by me, If I start another large project anytime soon, I fear all the money I saved by doing this stuff myself would go to a divorce lawyer.


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## Crofter

Some things we do for love eh?

Glad it came together so well!

Frank


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## DUSTYCEDAR

Nice Job


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## A. Stanton

Knowing that this thread was started some time ago, I have to say this. Last night, 5/28/08, I visited a local Tractor Supply dealer. One of the workers there told me that he can't keep a log splitter in stock due to the high price of oil. So my advice to anyone considering buying a splitter is get one as soon as you can. You might miss out.


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## DUSTYCEDAR

ITS kinda funny u can only find a troy built at most of the mower shops and they have to order it the the box stores have yard machine cub and such.
was looking at a super splitter but i had the same experience with the shop no customer service so i dont want to deal with that.
not sure what to buy at this point i had an iron and oak splitter years ago it was nice for what i paid never failed me wish i did not sell it. 
so i am still searching for a splitter.
nice job with the machine you made can i get one?


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## cornraker

buy a Timberwolf if you can afford it. Production is unmatched especially with the Tw-7


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## DUSTYCEDAR

I BORROWED A TIMBERWOLF TW7 that is the ticket if u can affford it


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## lyonsden

*splitting wood*

I agree in using a maul for the most economical way to split wood. I however, split a lot of 4o" or longer logs for my outdoor wood boiler. this includes a lot of green softwood that just isn't suited for hardly any splitting tool out there. that is until I found the stickler. using a floor jack makes installing the tool easy. (about 10 min.), and you don't have to lift the logs (only one end-this is where a cant hook helps). I live in the north and heat two homes and hot water for 8 months, so I split at least 30 cord of wood a year, probably more. there are a lot of factors. for normal cord wood, I'd stay with the maul. it's better for you and the enviornment. but for oversize wood such as a lot of biolers take. I think the stickler is great. I have heard of other screw type splitters out there, but I don't know any. If anyone knows of any, I'd love to take a look. I've been using my stickler for years, and it's taken a beating. I'll need to get a new one soon.


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