# Hi-Vis clothing in the bush



## StihlKiwi (Apr 2, 2012)

Coming from a country where wearing hi-vis clothing is mandatory in forestry and logging operations I find it interesting how little hi-vis appears to be worn in the bush in the US. Any particular reasons you guys in the states don't wear it or is it simply a case of "I don't have to, so I wont"?


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## KiwiBro (Apr 2, 2012)

It's lag, mate. You see, we are so far behind the rest of the world that we are only just beginning to realise that with the hillsides, roadsides and darn near anything that moves (including the school walking buses) plastered in Hi Vis psuedo-safety BS, that anyone wearing such an ensemble is actually NOT noticed any more because they just blend in with the other fluro leemings choking our visual landscapes. 

The more advanced and enlightened peeps in the Northern Hemisphere realised that ages ago and shelved the idea. Give us another 10 years and if we're lucky, the abominable visual pollution penny will drop here down under.

P.S. You rained out yet? What the heck happened to Summer? It was only 3 days long this year.


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## Samlock (Apr 2, 2012)

In my country wearing hi-vis colours isn't mandatory in the bush. I think the only mandatory colour by law is a red hat for the members of hunting teams, in order to prevent them shooting each other in the head. However, the bright jackets are indeed in fashion among the forestry people. It's been like that a long time already, since 70's, I believe. I think it's become a sign or a code: If you see an orange jacket, don't #### with the guy, he's contagious.


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## slowp (Apr 2, 2012)

I dunno. Some of the big timber companies require orange hardhats.


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## madhatte (Apr 2, 2012)

Zackly. If you're required to wear something, you WILL wear it. If you're not required, you may or may not, depending on whim and other intangibles. Myself, I'm neither fond nor afraid of day-glo colors, and have been known to mix and match. Since I don't really care one way or another about color and neither do my employers, I just wear what fits and works right.


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## 2dogs (Apr 2, 2012)

I think a bright safety orange makes sense in the woods. I have worked with at least two guys who have said they will only wear a standard hickory shirt and if the boss makes them wear safety clothing they would quit. I like the Canadian reflective clothing with reflectors that are vertical when the person is facing me and crossed when he is facing away.


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## tramp bushler (Apr 2, 2012)

If you doubt that high vis gear works just spend some time loggin in Southeast Alaska or as a Union Laborer in Prudhoe Bay in the winter doing close outs where you are the only person walking around and there are 5 operators in wheel loaders, hoes, dozers + graders . Plus 3 or 4 Teamsters in off highway end dumps or side dumps . Sometimes pulling doubles . . 

I wear 2 safety vests , 1 under my parka and 1 over it . I put more reflective tape on my hard hat than you have probably ever seen . . I have a head light on and a blinking red strobe on the back of my hat .


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## StihlKiwi (Apr 2, 2012)

KiwiBro said:


> It's lag, mate. You see, we are so far behind the rest of the world that we are only just beginning to realise that with the hillsides, roadsides and darn near anything that moves (including the school walking buses) plastered in Hi Vis psuedo-safety BS, that anyone wearing such an ensemble is actually NOT noticed any more because they just blend in with the other fluro leemings choking our visual landscapes.
> 
> The more advanced and enlightened peeps in the Northern Hemisphere realised that ages ago and shelved the idea. Give us another 10 years and if we're lucky, the abominable visual pollution penny will drop here down under.
> 
> P.S. You rained out yet? What the heck happened to Summer? It was only 3 days long this year.



You got a whole three days? dammit we've only had 2 and a bit.
There is way to muchy cotton wool and OSH crap in NZ but I agree with Tramp Bushler about not being run over by someone in a machine cos he can't see you.

Wearing well used hi-vis also helps give the appearance that you know what you are doing, and should not be interuppted:msp_wink:


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## tramp bushler (Apr 2, 2012)

When I'm tug boating I wear an irridesant orange hard hat . Guys have told me the only thing they could see in the fog was my hard hat walking across the log rafts .


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## KiwiBro (Apr 2, 2012)

StihlKiwi said:


> There is way to muchy cotton wool and



It's an epidemic. The tide of next to useless cotton wool that swamps just about anything that moves tends to dilute the perceived importance of it in the few actually worthwhile applications it has. Wearing my fluro tin foil hat, I'm inclined to muse it's more of a marketing conspiracy by the safety industry to perpetuate their revenue streams under the guise of saving us from ourselves. They probably figure, and not without good cause either, that the more cotton wool they can squeeze into our safety security blankets, the less need there'll be for common sense and respect to be employed by those working in hazardous occupations, thus the safety industry can rely upon an ever rising, self perpetuating stream of bigger and better idjits.


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## KiwiBro (Apr 2, 2012)

tramp bushler said:


> If you doubt that high vis gear works just spend some time loggin in Southeast Alaska or as a Union Laborer in Prudhoe Bay in the winter doing close outs where you are the only person walking around and there are 5 operators in wheel loaders, hoes, dozers + graders . Plus 3 or 4 Teamsters in off highway end dumps or side dumps . Sometimes pulling doubles . .
> 
> I wear 2 safety vests , 1 under my parka and 1 over it . I put more reflective tape on my hard hat than you have probably ever seen . . I have a head light on and a blinking red strobe on the back of my hat .


In that context, you'd be wise to paint yourself any and all fluro/reflective colours under the sun. At least that way you can still be productive and safe when the fog/low-vis rolls in.

Here in NZ, the use of hi vis is taken so far out of context it's somewhat pernicious.


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## tramp bushler (Apr 2, 2012)

The thing that gets me is alot of safety people are lazy culls who hang around with the office trash far too much and only sponser the company policy . What are u gonna see walking around a 5'tall tire . A faded safety vest or a brilliantly colored hard hat . . The hard hat of course . . So why would a dirt and bridge company issue dull grey hard hats ??? Stupid !! At least an aluminum hard hat is shiny . But in the timber industry we have to wear bright red or orange . Florecent ect . 

I'm gonna find a strobe to mount on top of my hard hat .


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## Gologit (Apr 2, 2012)

Hi-vis makes sense. We're not required to wear it yet but I've been hearing rumors. I'd like to see it on the landings, especially when we're loading out the first round before daylight. We have good lights on the shovels but a reflective vest or reflective tape on a hardhat might make it easier to keep track of the guys on the ground.

I don't know if it would make things safer for the fallers or not and, like 2dogs said, there's a lot of resistance to it. We can usually tell where our partner or the guy in the next strip is by watching the trees going down. We try to stay out ahead of the skidding crew far enough that they're not likely to run over us.


I put some of that red reflective tape on my hard hat...mostly out of boredom.


I _do_ think that the foresters, the 'ologists, the safety people, and anybody from the government who comes to the woods should be _absolutely required_ to wear hi-vis clothing including gloves and hat. That way we'll know where they are. And we'll know when they're gone, too.:msp_wink:


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## slowp (Apr 2, 2012)

Gologit said:


> I _do_ think that the foresters, the 'ologists, the safety people, and anybody from the government who comes to the woods should be _absolutely required_ to wear hi-vis clothing including gloves and hat. That way we'll know where they are. And we'll know when they're gone, too.:msp_wink:



Our vests are bright orange when they are new. But, paint gets on them and they fade, or paint leaks or an aerosol can blows up in the pocket...they don't stay bright for long IF the wearer is doing work. Paint also wreaks havoc on the front of hardhats. They become speckled. Gloves? I don't like to wear gloves whilst harassing loggers. 

Today I thought about putting flourecent stuff on The Used Dog. I got in the mood to kill some small deformed alders, and almost missed seeing him. Chocolate Labs blend in well with the ground. 

I like being seen. Being seen is a good thing. 

Eons ago, I came close to getting hit by logs being carried by a laterno (did I spell it right?) It was November, early morning, and we were walking in the log yard to start scaling. I saw the log ends in time to get out of the way. A strobe would have been nice. We were required and did, to wear bright orange vests there. But, they had no reflective tape or lights or anything to help be seen in the dark.


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## StihlKiwi (Apr 2, 2012)

KiwiBro said:


> Here in NZ, the use of hi vis is taken so far out of context it's somewhat pernicious.



Yea its a bit over the top sometimes - the guys who carry clipboards around uni in christchurch at the moment doing 'earthquake remediation' at the moment aren't much more than gophers in orange vest.

I don't see any reason not to wear it in the bush though - it increases visibility (obviously) and is one of the simplest forms of PPE - if you're not wearing it you've probably gone to work without getting dressed.
I have noticed that places where it is mandatory tend to have a wider range of options to suit everyone, so at least we aren't stuck with only a few poorly designed shirts and an old orange parka


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## KiwiBro (Apr 2, 2012)

Gologit said:


> I _do_ think that the foresters, the 'ologists, the safety people, and anybody from the government who comes to the woods should be _absolutely required_ to wear hi-vis clothing including gloves and hat. That way we'll know where they are. And we'll know when they're gone, too.:msp_wink:


Seconded and motion carried. Also, how about a colour coding system: fluro green for safety box tickers, fluro red for forest paper shufflers, etc, etc. And sponge bob square pants ensembles for the new recruits for the first fortnight or until the next new hire, whichever comes first.


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## bigcat (Apr 2, 2012)

I'm not a logger but spent my whole carer in heavy construction running rigs, thirty years ago guys would want to fight you if they had to wear a hardhat.
Today with all the safety training and daily pep talks no one leave the shack with out hardhat, glasses, and vest.
The tee shirts seen to be a favorite hand out at safety meetings.
I have seen two guys get run over by loaders in low light conditions one killed the other lot a leg, both before the use of any kind of safety gear was worn.
Would a shirt or vest helped, who knows ?


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## OlympicYJ (Apr 2, 2012)

Gologit said:


> I _do_ think that the foresters, the 'ologists, the safety people, and anybody from the government who comes to the woods should be _absolutely required_ to wear hi-vis clothing including gloves and hat. That way we'll know where they are. And we'll know when they're gone, too.:msp_wink:



Hey now we gotta be able to sneak up on you guys! otstir:

I wear an orange hi-viz safety vest on landings. Out in the brush the company I worked for only required a hi-viz hard hat. Orange or Silver. 

If you're not working around machines such as on the landing it doesn't make sense to require a bunch of hi-viz. As Gologit pointed out fallers are far apart, 2 tree lenghths in WA if I remember correctly and the rigging crew doesn't have any machines around them. Staying out of the corridor and the carriage are their responsibility. In mechanized logging there generally isn't anyone outside of a machine but if someone is; such as a chaser then that would be the place for some hi-viz.


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## madhatte (Apr 2, 2012)

slowp said:


> Paint also wreaks havoc on the front of hardhats. They become speckled.



Nawww...


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## OlympicYJ (Apr 2, 2012)

madhatte said:


> Nawww...



Better bust out the Big Z and the buffer! then it would be really hi-viz!


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## 2dogs (Apr 3, 2012)

There some good things thatcome from not wearing hi-vis clothing.
Snickers - Logging - YouTube


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## paccity (Apr 3, 2012)

i could watch that all day.


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## Samlock (Apr 3, 2012)

That's the colour!


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## coastalfaller (Apr 6, 2012)

I kinda like it even for fallers. When a man is down, perhaps unconscious, and you're looking for him, even if you know where he was working on the face, every second counts. A guy will stick out like a sore thumb with his hi vis on, even laying down.


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## tramp bushler (Apr 7, 2012)

Thats a good point . The other thing , with bushlers anyway ., work hours are short . If a bushler stops moving he stops making money . If u can't see a guy moving on a hillside there is something haywire . 
Like hearing a saw idleing . Worse sound you can here .


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## derwoodii (Apr 7, 2012)

KiwiBro said:


> It's an epidemic. The tide of next to useless cotton wool that swamps just about anything that moves tends to dilute the perceived importance of it in the few actually worthwhile applications it has. Wearing my fluro tin foil hat, I'm inclined to muse it's more of a marketing conspiracy by the safety industry to perpetuate their revenue streams under the guise of saving us from ourselves. They probably figure, and not without good cause either, that the more cotton wool they can squeeze into our safety security blankets, the less need there'll be for common sense and respect to be employed by those working in hazardous occupations, thus the safety industry can rely upon an ever rising, self perpetuating stream of bigger and better idjits.



To this I agree, the fashion to cover everything in fluro by clip board fools in OH&S and off the tools management has gone to far. Its become platitude to real safety in better staff selection and proper labour resourcing. The fluro death shrouds may have saved a few near misses, but why was there a near miss in the 1st place? Personal protection is the last thing in the chain of safety 1st remove the hazard 2nd control the hazard then lastly pretty pink safety gear.

I laugh with tears at work when the put fluro on OH& S women in 5 inch high heels on the work site and hard hats on visiting clip board suits who never set foot outta the site sheds.


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## Samlock (Apr 7, 2012)

Years ago I bought a pair of Italian chainsaw boots. Classy, eh? They were cheap, I thought, heck, I'll give them a try, but it was a penny wasted; they exploded to pieces after two weeks. Interesting detail was that the soils were high-vis bright red colour. I figured the idea was that it would help to find a corpse feet sticking out of the brush.


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## Gologit (Apr 7, 2012)

tramp bushler said:


> Like hearing a saw idleing . Worse sound you can here .



Yup, unless you _also_ hear WHAM WHAM WHAM and some good cuss words while he's driving wedges.


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## coastalfaller (Apr 7, 2012)

tramp bushler said:


> Thats a good point . The other thing , with bushlers anyway ., work hours are short . If a bushler stops moving he stops making money . If u can't see a guy moving on a hillside there is something haywire .
> Like hearing a saw idleing . Worse sound you can here .



Absolutely, I totally agree. I always tell the guys to make sure when they're listening for their partner to make sure they hear their saw working, not just idling.


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## coastalfaller (Apr 7, 2012)

Gologit said:


> Yup, unless you _also_ hear WHAM WHAM WHAM and some good cuss words while he's driving wedges.



Haha! Yep, that too! I was asked on the radio once if I was building a house!


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## tramp bushler (Apr 7, 2012)

:msp_thumbsup::hmm3grin2orange:


coastalfaller said:


> Haha! Yep, that too! I was asked on the radio once if I was building a house!


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## Gologit (Apr 7, 2012)

coastalfaller said:


> Haha! Yep, that too! I was asked on the radio once if I was building a house!



 Yup, somebody always has something to say. I misjudged a fir one day , and I misjudged it bad. I should have just crossed the lead with it and let the skidder guy complain. Nope. Pride, ya know. 

So, I was beating the hell out of the wedges, and sweating, and beating, and cussing, and beating. I stopped for a minute to catch my breath and I heard my partner yell..."Hey...it sounds like a shooting gallery over there. You trying to save gas money on your saw?"
He always was a wise-ass.

I got my my revenge the next day. He had one set back on him and I had to cut him out. I made him wait a little before I hiked over, though.


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## coastalfaller (Apr 7, 2012)

Gologit said:


> Yup, somebody always has something to say. I misjudged a fir one day , and I misjudged it bad. I should have just crossed the lead with it and let the skidder guy complain. Nope. Pride, ya know.
> 
> So, I was beating the hell out of the wedges, and sweating, and beating, and cussing, and beating. I stopped for a minute to catch my breath and I heard my partner yell..."Hey...it sounds like a shooting gallery over there. You trying to save gas money on your saw?"
> He always was a wise-ass.
> ...



Good one, Bob, made me chuckle!


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## Slamm (Apr 7, 2012)

I second or third that idling chainsaw thing, man it is a gut draining sound to hear a tree go over then have the cutter just stand there and idle the saw for what seems like an eternity. Then you hear him goose it or make a limbing cut or topping cut and all is well again, but those few seconds of just hearing an idling saw are the worst.

There is one good point to the "needlessly" reving the saw when you are walking about or getting to the top or something, at least you know the operator is still alive and well enough to make worthless noise with his saw, LOL.

Sam


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## joesawer (Apr 9, 2012)

Some times I don't want to be seen from a long distance. I might be setting a bear trap otstir: or sneaking a smoke.

My cutting partner hollered "Hey it sounds like you have to much holding wood". Like I was not aware of that and would not cut it up some more if it was not set back on my saw. When I tell him as much he says "well you should have set a wedge" as if I was not aware of that little bit of info either lol.


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## Gologit (Apr 9, 2012)

joesawer said:


> Some times I don't want to be seen from a long distance. I might be setting a bear trap otstir: or sneaking a smoke.
> 
> My cutting partner hollered "Hey it sounds like you have to much holding wood". Like I was not aware of that and would not cut it up some more if it was not set back on my saw. When I tell him as much he says "well you should have set a wedge" as if I was not aware of that little bit of info either lol.



Yup..you can do it _right_ 1000 times and nobody ever says a word. But screw it up just _once_ and you'll hear all kinds of comments. 

One of my favorites was when somebody (not me, honest) splattered a big old growth cedar. That thing broke in so many places that it looked like somebody had blown it up. The bullbuck came up and just kind of stood there looking at it for a minute and said..."I don't think Diamond Match is buying anything from us these days...I guess you boys cut that one just for fun".


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## Sport Faller (Apr 9, 2012)

joesawer said:


> Some times I don't want to be seen from a long distance. I might be setting a *bear trap* otstir: or sneaking a smoke.
> 
> My cutting partner hollered "Hey it sounds like you have to much holding wood". Like I was not aware of that and would not cut it up some more if it was not set back on my saw. When I tell him as much he says "well you should have set a wedge" as if I was not aware of that little bit of info either lol.



I've never heard that one before, I'm assuming that a bear trap is the same as a monkey tail


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## rodeo (Apr 9, 2012)

bigskyjake said:


> I've never heard that one before, I'm assuming that a bear trap is the same as a monkey tail




And I'm assuming a monkey tail is the same as a steaming stump snake?


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## Sport Faller (Apr 9, 2012)

rodeo said:


> And I'm assuming a monkey tail is the same as a steaming stump snake?



And if I haven't missed my mark a steaming stump snake is synonymous with a Fudge Dragon


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## tramp bushler (Apr 9, 2012)

Chunk checker trap.


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## RandyMac (Apr 10, 2012)

cornback rattler


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## Joe46 (Apr 10, 2012)

Well this has turned into a pretty crappy thread.


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## Gologit (Apr 10, 2012)

Joe46 said:


> Well this has turned into a pretty crappy thread.



Yup, a _waste_ of time.


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## Sport Faller (Apr 10, 2012)

You guys think this is ####ty? :wink2:

just wait until the GTG after a half dozen off-campus drinks


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