# You Know you are a Hack when...



## Slvrmple72 (Dec 12, 2007)

I am starting a "You Know you are a Hack thread..."
Guidelines/Rules
1. No specific mentioning of names, be fair, maybe they dont know the symptoms of hackism.
2. be concise, "poor quality work" is not concise. "leaving stubs, or making flush cuts" is.
3. Pictures are a great visual aid feel free to use them so long as they are not incriminating.
4. Please not another Spikes/Gaffs/Spurs vs. Non- Thread
5. Feel free to draw from previous personal experience- find your inner hack- he still lurks in there, somewhere, remember the time when you... 
6. Present the info in a constructive/instructional manner... this is your chance to vent but dont "burn" anyone when you "let off steam".

Okay here goes... You know you are a hack when you cut the limb from the top without making an undercut and rip a few feet of bark off the trunk of the tree. " Oops!, sorry 'bout that. Can I interest you in a removal for this tree know that it is damaged?":hmm3grin2orange:


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## John Paul Sanborn (Dec 12, 2007)

I think it is not a few feet of bark, but if there are small tears on most of your cuts. Those tears are past the branch protection zone and into the trunk/stem whatnot.

You know your a hack; if you never work the tips of a the tree


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## lxt (Dec 12, 2007)

we were doing a line clearance trim across from a jail in a small town the sherriffs were doing a prisoner escort right at lunch time, we were all shut down and doing the prelunch BS, when this prisoner looks at the tree`s just trimmed & says to the one sherriff; "you arrested me!! look at what they did to those trees!!"

when a criminal says that, I imagine that constitutes a hack job!! in our defense all the cuts were proper & in accordance with utility specs!!


I still chuckle about that to this day(not the trees!! but who & how it was said)

LXT.........


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## chucknduck (Dec 12, 2007)

*you know you're a hack when*

PICKUP TRUCK HACKS:


-you park your pickup truck near the tree, then put the ladder in the back of the truck and lean it against the tree
-use your 1/2 ton pickup to pull down a 10 ton elm with a rope from K-mart
-load your 1/2 ton pickup with 2 tons of elm trunk till the wheels bottom out
-take a bunch of 2 by 4's out of the bed of your pickup and make a "Ladder" up the tree trunk
- tie your rope to limbs that need to be removed, then tie it to your pickup and gas it
this is what iv'e seen from some of the competition in the area.LOL


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## TDunk (Dec 12, 2007)

chucknduck said:


> PICKUP TRUCK HACKS:
> 
> 
> -you park your pickup truck near the tree, then put the ladder in the back of the truck and lean it against the tree
> ...



:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


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## wood4heat (Dec 12, 2007)

Your go to tools are WD40 and duct tape. :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


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## wood4heat (Dec 12, 2007)

Ok I'm no arboralogist or anything but who hasn't done this.

Oil change procedure for hacks:

step one, drain oil
step two, remove filter
step three, replace oil filter
step four, wipe oil from filter off hands
step five, add oil to engine
step six, call buddy for more oil because you never replaced the drain plug and the oil for your only vehicle is now overflowing your drain pan all over the driveway.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Dec 12, 2007)

Oil change procedure for hacks:

step one, drain oil
1.5 have a beer
step two, remove filter
2.5 have a beer
step three, replace oil filter
3.5 have a beer
step four, wipe oil from filter off hands
4.5 have a beer
step five, add oil to engine
5.5 have a beer
step six, run for beer because it was not a full six pack
step seven, call a buddy because you forgot to put in.....

I've heard this before, and I've been the buddy who got the call! I think he was still a bit drunk from the night before. Dumb Jarhead! 

Oh, I had to have an MP use a fire extiguisher because the old T-Bird I bought a few weeks earlier from a buddy heading overseas needed head gaslets and I put it off and put it off....


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## TDunk (Dec 12, 2007)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> Oil change procedure for hacks:
> 
> step one, drain oil
> 1.5 have a beer
> ...



Um john, does that meen i can't drink and work on cars anymore??? i was getting pretty good at it too.:deadhorse:


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## Job Corps Tree (Dec 12, 2007)

*you know you are a Hack when*

I had worked at a Nursery in IL . They had a river runner change the Oil on a Field truck a old Diamond Reo and filled the motor up to the Valve Covers. the Kid could not see Clean Oil on the Dip Stick. That motor would not turn over tell we took out 5 Gal. of extry oil.


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## beowulf343 (Dec 12, 2007)

wood4heat said:


> Your go to tools are WD40 and duct tape. :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:



Hey now! WD40 and duct tape aren't just for hacks anymore! You never know when they might be needed on the jobsite. 

For example, there is nothing wrong with using duct tape to fix a cracked rake handle so you can finish the day. Hackism is when that handle stays taped for the next several months instead of being replaced.

My favorite hacks though-the residential guys who think they are bad-assed fallers. Then watching them drop a stem and it ends up falling opposite their notch.


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## wood4heat (Dec 12, 2007)

beowulf343 said:


> Hey now! WD40 and duct tape aren't just for hacks anymore! You never know when they might be needed on the jobsite.
> 
> For example, there is nothing wrong with using duct tape to fix a cracked rake handle so you can finish the day. Hackism is when that handle stays taped for the next several months instead of being replaced.
> 
> .



It was a joke, check my sig. :hmm3grin2orange:


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## beowulf343 (Dec 12, 2007)

Lol-sorry man, didn't even see your sig.


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## Jon Denver (Dec 12, 2007)

1 Pulling a tree over with your sisters 1980 buick regal which was a wedding present for her when she got married to your brother.

2 Showing up to the job site with no upper teeth from to much meth.

3 Then showing up to the job site with no lower teeth from to much kodiak

4 Watching Dr. Fill every day cuz yer such a hack you dont get any work no more.

:hmm3grin2orange:


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## wood4heat (Dec 12, 2007)

beowulf343 said:


> Lol-sorry man, didn't even see your sig.



Aint no thing!!

How about this, A "mechanic" brings me an alternator belt and tells me it's too short. five minutes later he returns with the fan belt and tells me it's too long. At this time he provides the old belts for comparison. Oddly the alternator belt was as short as the fan belt was long....so took the exact belts out to him and ask him to "try these". He didn't bring them back so I guess they worked that time. :biggrinbounce2: True story.


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## reachtreeservi (Dec 12, 2007)

You know you are talking to a hack when you mention the Gibbs adjuster on HIS wirecore he's wearing at the time and he doesn't know what a Gibbs is... true story!

Then you look and he has his gaff pads on backwards....

You know you are talking to a hack when he starts limbing midway up the tree
and hangs every branch up on a branch beneath him. And keeps doing it !

You know you are talking to a hack when you ask about using a pulley to lower loads with and he tell you " all that technology isn't useful or needed for tree work." He still uses wraps for everthing.

You know you are talking to a hack when he spikes all his pruning jobs and flush cuts everything and he's still covered up with work.... because he works so cheap.

I knew I was talking to a hack because I stopped to watch a job today in my neighborhood and talked to the hack who was doing all this stuff. :chainsawguy:


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## (WLL) (Dec 12, 2007)

*you know your a hack when*

if you go out one day and buy yourself a few tools, and call yourself a climber. you are a hack!! if the tree looked better before ya pruned it you are a hack. if ya think a gut-thin and stripped out tree prune is ok and looks good ,than you r a hack. if ya been doing removals for 10+yrs and they look like chit comming down you r a hack. if you think you know it all and are ignorant to learning from others than you r a dumb hack.just because you can climb good does not mean you are a good climber!!!! be safe ,be carful ,use your brain ,and dont be a hack....


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## ropensaddle (Dec 12, 2007)

1 When your big saw is a poulan wildthing 
2When you think lateral trimming means a clearcut
3Get to the job open your door out pops four empty beer cans!
4Land a tree on the house and tell the customer they needed a new 
roof anyway!
5Your idea of collar cut is as close to the bark as can cut!
6You charge one third of everyone else's bids.


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## Canyonbc (Dec 12, 2007)

ropensaddle said:


> 1 When your big saw is a poulan wildthing
> 2When you think lateral trimming means a clearcut
> 3Get to the job open your door out pops four empty beer cans!
> 4Land a tree on the house and tell the customer they needed a new
> ...



Second all of them

but especially..

# 1,2,3,4,5,6.


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## treeseer (Dec 12, 2007)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> You know your a hack; if you never work the tips of a the tree



O man that is cold but in this day and age with new climbing gear and methods and pole tools, it is very true. You raised the bar pretty high for this site, but that's where it belongs, I agree.


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## zeke (Dec 12, 2007)

you know you are a hack when you say you can't work the tips by climbing.


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## juststumps (Dec 12, 2007)

seeing a pickup with the front wheels on the the ground and the rear wheels four foot of the ground,,, tied into a 90 foot oak with 40 foot of cable....OOPS...

luckily the tree fell back into another tree !!!!! LOL


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## Slvrmple72 (Dec 13, 2007)

juststumps said:


> seeing a pickup with the front wheels on the the ground and the rear wheels four foot of the ground,,, tied into a 90 foot oak with 40 foot of cable....OOPS...
> 
> luckily the tree fell back into another tree !!!!! LOL



Where is the camera when you need it:hmm3grin2orange:


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## John Paul Sanborn (Dec 13, 2007)

treeseer said:


> O man that is cold but in this day and age with new climbing gear and methods and pole tools, it is very true. You raised the bar pretty high for this site, but that's where it belongs, I agree.



You are the exception to the rule of old dogs and tricks Guy. 

I can still picture the last day we worked your ice storm, and I was getting sick from som'thn I et. I look over an there you are, 20 years older then me and shimmying up the central lead of a 70 ft willow oak, on a cold wet day. It sucks seeing the young fellahs with more vigor!


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## (WLL) (Dec 13, 2007)

*you know your a hack when*

you know your a hack when you keep fence rails in your polesaw bin:hmm3grin2orange:


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## Canyonbc (Dec 13, 2007)

(WLL) said:


> you know your a hack when you keep fence rails in your polesaw bin:hmm3grin2orange:



2nd that...

I have met guys like that too...shame.


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## clearance (Dec 13, 2007)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> You are the exception to the rule of old dogs and tricks Guy.
> 
> I can still picture the last day we worked your ice storm, and I was getting sick from som'thn I et. I look over an there you are, 20 years older then me and shimmying up the central lead of a 70 ft willow oak, on a cold wet day. It sucks seeing the young fellahs with more vigor!



Is this true Guy? Good man. 

I make good cuts, but I climb with spurs always, I'll settle for 1/2 hack. Anyways, a hack that works hard still gets my respect, hard work is not very common these days.


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## czar800 (Dec 14, 2007)

You know you are a hack if your preferred payment method is measured in cans..:


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## STLfirewood (Dec 14, 2007)

czar800 said:


> You know you are a hack if your preferred payment method is measured in cans..:





That's where I get the customer. I tell them no that wasn't a case of cans it was a case of fortys. They fall for it everytime.


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## (WLL) (Dec 14, 2007)

clearance said:


> Is this true Guy? Good man.
> 
> I make good cuts, but I climb with spurs always, I'll settle for 1/2 hack. Anyways, a hack that works hard still gets my respect, hard work is not very common these days.


hay clearance r ya hungry? you know what im talkin about!:deadhorse:


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## ccrider2240 (Dec 16, 2007)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> I think it is not a few feet of bark, but if there are small tears on most of your cuts. Those tears are past the branch protection zone and into the trunk/stem whatnot.
> 
> You know your a hack; if you never work the tips of a the tree



Working the tips, my words to a T
You know your a hack when your Tree ad in the newspaper also includes Roto tilling & Cleaning out garages, Oh yeah, and will beat all written estimates.


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## Mkarlson (Dec 16, 2007)

You know your a hack if your reading this thread trying to figure out if you are a hack or not.:monkey:


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## John Paul Sanborn (Dec 16, 2007)

clearance said:


> Is this true Guy? Good man.



I'll lay my hand on my truck and swear it for you 

It was the last day I was to be down there for that cycle of work, and was feeling downright lousy. I was dragging myself through the tree, and turn around and see the "old guy" doing a stem shimmy to set his line higher. Oh, and he is a cancer survivor.

It was the motivation I needed to get through the tree, though I heard later that I missed a hanger or something and he had to go back for it. d'Oh!


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## Unknown Cutter (Dec 16, 2007)

you might be a hack if you think sterilizing your gaffs between pruning is proper tree care


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## Treetom (Dec 16, 2007)

*I know you've seen this...*

You know you're a hack if you move your chainsaw back and forth like a handsaw when cutting through a log.


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## TDunk (Dec 16, 2007)

Treetom said:


> You know you're a hack if you move your chainsaw back and forth like a handsaw when cutting through a log.



Watching people do that is about as irratating as people "blipping" there throttle while walking around. Makes no sence.


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## STLfirewood (Dec 16, 2007)

TDunk said:


> Watching people do that is about as irratating as people "blipping" there throttle while walking around. Makes no sence.




That's like watching anyone riding a Harley through a parking lot. I always ask the guys at work if their carb is loading up. One guy told me it's fuel injected it doesn't have a carb. I said oh by they way you were blipping the throttle I thought it was loading up. He still didn't get it.

Scott


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## reachtreeservi (Dec 16, 2007)

Unknown Cutter said:


> you might be a hack if you think sterilizing your gaffs between pruning is proper tree care



I know you don't have to...
But I always do, just to be safe ! :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


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## treesquirrel (Dec 16, 2007)

*You know you are a hack when....*

..a full days work results in a profit of 50 bucks over your operational expenses.


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## treesquirrel (Dec 16, 2007)

reachtreeservi said:


> I know you don't have to...
> But I always do, just to be safe ! :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:



But do you use Peroxide or Alcohol?


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## reachtreeservi (Dec 16, 2007)

treesquirrel said:


> But do you use Peroxide or Alcohol?



I throw a little 100 proof vodka on them and set'em on fire !


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## Farmer Ferd (Dec 16, 2007)

your groundsmand has no PPE and is pulling the top 25 feet of the tree right at himself with his back to a busy road( luckaly it gets hung up in another tree and rolls haphazerdly to the side. you then continue to drop another 14 foot limb right on the house which bounces off without damage and you shout down " It dosent get any better then that" they then proceed to pile all the debri in the front yard of the lady and left. I watched this all happen from 100 feet up of a tree next door. She didnt like my Quote.


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## Mitchell (Dec 16, 2007)

*my favorite*

I like the extension ladder stapped vertically to the trunk trick.


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## Sprig (Dec 16, 2007)

reachtreeservi said:


> I throw a little 100 proof vodka on them and set'em on fire !



why waste that man! Bit o' mix.....................nah, cruel.

Just one more hacker tale, "...hey I been cuttin' fer years..." I end up with the saw a week later (bout a year ago now) from the great ladies who run the charity I help with (read MS270 does its duty thread), teeth have more different angles on them than a love letter written in Chinese, bar is burnt like the virgin mary cheese toast, took a wooden spatula to clean most of saw, filter looked like a piece of OSB (due to the fantastic sharpening job), one of the 'helpers' poured mix into the oil tank, poured out the gas to find several ounces of water in the bottom......... GAH! At this point the folks who'd hired him wanted to pack in the wood business, too much bs., I bought the saw (could say near stole but I've paid my dues 10x) cleaned it up, they put me to work on my own time as I can, been running it ever since and gettin' the jobs done and keepin' folks warm. Most recent of many tales of woe, hacks to me are people who just don't give a rat's butt about anything or anyone, take the money and run, carp all over everyone as they run down the road to their next disaster, I can live without 'em.




Serge

Aw man, I digressed and went totally OT, *I* am a hack when I blow out my muffler's pipes, scrounge my fav mechanic's scrap pile for a piece of pipe, take it home, cut slots in it to crimp ta old pipe-ends, use 4 coat hangers, zap-straps, 3 tin cans, and a 3$ package of 'shrinkfix' so I'm not a gas chamber on wheels. *I* am a hack when I'm beat and yank out the deathly 'hidden package' of KD and kill it with hotdogs surprize for dinner, or piece together 5 extension cords to run my studio's stereo when I have 100ft of line hangin' in the garage. *I* am a hack soon as I roll outta bed in da morning and grab yesterday's news paper and use the whole darned thing to get my fire going 'cause its cold out on the porch where the kindling is and I'm too bloody lazy to move more'n 12ft. Um, there's more, but, bein' a hack means I'm too lazy ta pick my own brain, let alone my nose 

:jester: :jester:


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## (WLL) (Dec 19, 2007)

you know your a hack when third world countries are doing your labor!!!


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## chainsaw kid (Dec 19, 2007)

*I wrote this in another thread...but it pertains....*

Yeah, I thought he was full of crap. We got into that conversation because I went to tune my sister-in-laws polin (just keep pull'in, hehe) wild thing saw and the adj screws were splined. So I asked him if there was a special tool for it. He said, they were just caps and to pry them off....then went into the EPA speal. I went home, looked at the saw again and they were not caps like he said they were splined screws like I thought. I know you're going to think I'm an animal but I gingerly used my wiz/wheel to cut a slot in the heads of those splined screws so I could get a screw stick on em'. Hey, sometimes you got to do what you got to do.... Once I tweeked the carb it ran much better but man is that a poorly engineered/cheaply made saw.


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## (WLL) (Dec 20, 2007)

Mitchell said:


> I like the extension ladder stapped vertically to the trunk trick.


hay Mich tie me on another ladder!!


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## green leaf (Dec 20, 2007)

You may be a hack if -
* Shirts are optional ( and half your crew is female relatives )
* If your used motor oil is your new bar oil
* If you collect insurance instead of paying it
* And if your payroll consists of beer you may be a hack


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## (WLL) (Jan 6, 2008)

you know your a hack when the boss says we got one prune and all the wood goes:hmm3grin2orange:


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## Mitchell (Jan 6, 2008)

*something like this perhaps*







(WLL) said:


> you know your a hack when the boss says we got one prune and all the wood goes:hmm3grin2orange:



Spotted this a couple weeks ago...


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## (WLL) (Jan 6, 2008)

LMFWAO!!!! you got it mich


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## MNClimber (Jan 6, 2008)

Mitchell said:


> Spotted this a couple weeks ago...



I got fired from a job because I refused to trim al the oaks in a guys yard like that.


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## (WLL) (Jan 6, 2008)

Mitchell said:


> Spotted this a couple weeks ago...


the dang land scraper forgot to ellavate er now he is gonna get a call back


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## techdave (Jan 6, 2008)

*moving bar back and forth*

Hi you all, I agree doing that on something routine =hack.

But on nasty wildland bucking jobs where the cuts have to be made RIGHT at the edge of the trail corridor and there is a break at that point due to falling on a rock or stump or whatever...

Some kind of movement of the bar is useful to find out when its about to bind. You cant always predict the place where tension changes to compression. Nice and easy like a log with no breaks on flat ground in someone's yard. But not on narrow Fireroads on steep crossslopes!

This is especailly true on logs over say 2 or 3 feet in diameter an slopes over 30 or 40 degrees. if the downhill end is pinned, all kinds of wierd stresses can be in the log.

Not common though, I agree that usually moving bar like a handsaw is dumb.

So is not using the dogs, or failing to locate the corners of the notch carefully.

But especially, NOT CLEANING THE FACE OR MAKING SURE THE CORNERS ARE GOOD.

Not looking up before and often is a bad one too!!

Dave, "Oh god another 20 down on Azalea Glen Fire [email protected]#$$#@@" 

Jamul CA.


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## Mitchell (Jan 6, 2008)

*"sawing" the saw*



techdave said:


> Hi you all, I agree doing that on something routine =hack.
> 
> But on nasty wildland bucking jobs where the cuts have to be made RIGHT at the edge of the trail corridor and there is a break at that point due to falling on a rock or stump or whatever...
> 
> Some kind of movement of the bar is useful to find out when its about to bind. You cant always predict the place where tension changes to compression. Nice and easy like a log with no breaks on flat ground in someone's yard. But not on narrow Fireroads on steep crossslopes!



I move the saw back and forth with bind or fishing for the bark on the ground side of a log. Usually guys that "saw" the chain saw are new to chains saws in general [and its dull]. We used to play a trick on new guys by putting the chain on backwards and letting them buck. Pretty quick they would be sawing it back and forth. Amazing that almost everyone would keep right on the throttle far past when it should have been obvious that it was not working like it does in the movies!


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## Mitchell (Jan 6, 2008)

*fired*



MNClimber said:


> I got fired from a job because I refused to trim al the oaks in a guys yard like that.



fired by your boss or the homeowner? Tuff nut if it was your boss.


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## Canyonbc (Jan 6, 2008)

techdave said:


> Hi you all, I agree doing that on something routine =hack.
> 
> But on nasty wildland bucking jobs where the cuts have to be made RIGHT at the edge of the trail corridor and there is a break at that point due to falling on a rock or stump or whatever...
> 
> ...



Haha...thats funny. I do know the area.


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## Fallen Angel (Jan 7, 2008)

-You know your a hack when your entire crew comes from the local Home Depot parking lot.
-You use alluminum ladders in the tree...instead of walking on the limbs
-You use 1/4in. nylon stringer to tie in or lower limbs
-and my personal favorite..you tell the ho,"You might not want to be in the house while we remove this tree."

I have actually seen this stuff done down in Gainesville and Denton, Texas. I have also seen demolished houses because of these practices.


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## Fallen Angel (Jan 7, 2008)

Mitchell said:


> Spotted this a couple weeks ago...



I will walk away from the Bid when asked to do something like this to a tree. Lost some work because of this..but hey, I do quality tree work...not funerals.


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## Greenhorntrimmr (Jan 7, 2008)

When the apprentice has to drive because the foreman has no license.


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## ropensaddle (Jan 7, 2008)

When you call a customer from county lock up to get
a draw for bail


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## ropensaddle (Jan 7, 2008)

Fallen Angel said:


> -You know your a hack when your entire crew comes from the local Home Depot parking lot.
> -You use alluminum ladders in the tree...instead of walking on the limbs
> -You use 1/4in. nylon stringer to tie in or lower limbs
> -and my personal favorite..you tell the ho,"You might not want to be in the house while we remove this tree."
> ...



Most is true however I always if making a potentially dangerous
cut ask homeowner to vacate,never has their been an instance
it was needed but things can go wrong no matter how much we
know and do! I would rather not have someone hurt if something
did go the wrong way. I don't think it makes you a hack by asking
a homeowner to leave when doing mission impossible, it makes you
responsible and concerned for their well being.


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## Fallen Angel (Jan 7, 2008)

ropensaddle said:


> Most is true however I always if making a potentially dangerous
> cut ask homeowner to vacate,never has their been an instance
> it was needed but things can go wrong no matter how much we
> know and do! I would rather not have someone hurt if something
> ...



I definately understand that aspect...but if one sees this type of rigging and equip? and that statement is made? I'd be scared. I have asked HO to not be inside on a FEW of these Mission impos. But have proper equip. Although S&*t happens.


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## Sprig (Jan 7, 2008)

Mkarlson said:


> You know your a hack if your reading this thread trying to figure out if you are a hack or not.:monkey:


   
Or are using it to figure out your next advertising stratagy 



Serge


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## Fallen Angel (Jan 7, 2008)

lol!!Now that's just plain wrong Sprig. BURN!!! :hmm3grin2orange:


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## Canyonbc (Jan 7, 2008)

ropensaddle said:


> Most is true however I always if making a potentially dangerous
> cut ask homeowner to vacate,never has their been an instance
> it was needed but things can go wrong no matter how much we
> know and do! I would rather not have someone hurt if something
> ...



I ' ll Second that...


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## Sprig (Jan 7, 2008)

(WLL) said:


> LMFWAO!!!! you got it mich


Holey Mother of Dogs! what a masterful job that is too! 
 :bang:  :bang: 



iyiyiyiyiyiyiyiyi!


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## ropensaddle (Jan 7, 2008)

Fallen Angel said:


> I definately understand that aspect...but if one sees this type of rigging and equip? and that statement is made? I'd be scared. I have asked HO to not be inside on a FEW of these Mission impos. But have proper equip. Although S&*t happens.



I though you were meaning that! I have all the right equipment
have even postponed jobs to better equip, but sometimes short
of a crane which you will find it hard to get paid for here, a 
educated risk starting with load potential,moment etc.
In these calculations we sometimes find we have it covered,
only marginal so if risk must be taken we should limit the
outcome to property damage. I had an instance butt hitching
a spar over house out of my bucket, one of those but? flinching
cuts that could not be let run. Those are better left to evacuating
the home getting the strongest gear out figuring shockload and hoping
for the best. I have not had a failure but know it can happen
makes you start counting the cycles of load put on your rope
and scratching your head etc. Better safe with life is how I
look at it!


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## Sprig (Jan 7, 2008)

Fallen Angel said:


> lol!!Now that's just plain wrong Sprig. BURN!!! :hmm3grin2orange:


Hey hey! Just tryin' ta stay on topic ya know!
:hmm3grin2orange:


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## Fallen Angel (Jan 7, 2008)

GOTCHA there huass. Nice job!:fart:


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## techdave (Jan 7, 2008)

*OT-Great quotes....*

Sprig and Fallen Angel!!

6 inches of rain in about 60 hours, plus 50 mph wind with torrential rain last night.

Good thing I had taken down those 3 dead pecker pole Eucs by the neighbor's house!


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## Fallen Angel (Jan 7, 2008)

techdave said:


> Sprig and Fallen Angel!!
> 
> 6 inches of rain in about 60 hours, plus 50 mph wind with torrential rain last night.
> 
> Good thing I had taken down those 3 dead pecker pole Eucs by the neighbor's house!



You did this before the storm right? If so it's sounds like you made the right decision to take them down. Were they leaning towards you house?


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## ccrider2240 (Jan 8, 2008)

*Ski Rope and a Murray Lawn tractor*

I actually saw this one time, A man,ski rope, lawn tractor and a poulan 'Wild Thang",tipping over a knarly deady Cottonwood, My foreman and I almost pissed ourselves we were laughing so hard as we drove by this tree circus.


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## Mitchell (Jan 9, 2008)

*you might be in over you head if*

your climbing experience is limited to the worlds biggest peroge...


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## (WLL) (Jan 14, 2008)

more cuts for your buck$:hmm3grin2orange:


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## ccrider2240 (Jan 15, 2008)

ropensaddle said:


> When you call a customer from county lock up to get
> a draw for bail


 Thats a good one. LOL


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## (WLL) (Jan 18, 2008)

i know your a hack when sissy sticks and chicken straps are never used and you dont even have a handsaw in your bag of chips!!!:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


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## capetrees (Jan 20, 2008)

you know you're a hack when;

1. you use the aluminum ladder to get into the tree
2. you use the neighbors saw to cut the branches
3. you get up the tree and forgot to fill the fuel and oil
4. you didn't check to see if the chain was sharp before getting into the tree and damn near burned out the saw using the dull chain anyway

and finally the best

5. tied yourself in so as not to fall with simply a rope around your waist tied to the ladder which is NOT tied to the tree! 

Seen it done by some guys on an adjacent propery where I was working. I'm, sure tha idea was "hey, he can do it, so can I!"


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## ePhoenix (Jan 20, 2008)

Jon Denver said:


> 1 Pulling a tree over with your sisters 1980 buick regal which was a wedding present for her when she got married to your brother.



Well, hmmm? I didn't pull a tree over with it, but I once used my 1980 Buick Regal to haul stump mulch away by filling up the trunk. LOL!

====================

*You Know you are a Hack when...*

...you call the boss to say you're not going in to work that day and he says "Why, you in jail?"... and you say...

Yeah. 

ePhoenix


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## clearance (Jan 20, 2008)

1980 Buick Regals are a pretty good looking car, compared to some of the junk today. V-8, 2 doors, whats not to like about that?


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## woodchux (Jan 20, 2008)

One time near the landfill i saw a car pulling a boat filled with brush... laughed all day on that one.


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## Canyonbc (Jan 20, 2008)

woodchux said:


> One time near the landfill i saw a car pulling a boat filled with brush... laughed all day on that one.



Hey that was me. 

No!, i am Just Kidding. 

But that story takes the top in my book.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jan 21, 2008)

Those are homeowner things, I seen a Mercedes & Volvols filled with brush.

There is a pic here with Miata filled with green split firewood, was that one of Jim's pics?


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## ropensaddle (Jan 21, 2008)

woodchux said:


> One time near the landfill i saw a car pulling a boat filled with brush... laughed all day on that one.



I knew a tree service that his motor went down on his dump,
instead of replacing the motor he chained it to the bucket and
pulled it to the job!


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## BC WetCoast (Jan 22, 2008)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> Those are homeowner things, I seen a Mercedes & Volvols filled with brush.
> 
> There is a pic here with Miata filled with green split firewood, was that one of Jim's pics?



One year when my Scout troop was chipping christmas trees, this guy pulled up in a Smart Car and pulled a 6' tree out of the passenger seat. We also had a guy bring one in sticking out of his sun roof.


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## silk (Jan 23, 2008)

First post for me!

You know you are a hack when.

1. You have to spend a week finishing off all the jobs from the previous week.

2. When you put gas in the bar oil and wonder why the saw is smoking so much. 

3. when you go to the home owner and ask if they have spare gas, mix, bar oil and, oh yeah a Saw!

4. When the home owner corrects you when you "try" to identify the tree species.

5. when at any given day your crew is a 50/50 no show.

I have seen all of the above first hand.


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## treemandan (Jan 23, 2008)

(WLL) said:


> you know your a hack when you keep fence rails in your polesaw bin:hmm3grin2orange:





I usually keep all the fence crap back at the lot, I sure wished I would have brought the tub of asphalt patch today though. Just a little hole, we were rushing to drop the trunk and clean it up so the guy could park there tomorrow. Pulled a pin oak over with an open faced. If I would have left a little more hinge wood it would never have broke off the stump as we ratcheted it almost all the way down.
No worries.The gutter guards are still on the house. I saw the crane outriggers open up a driveway one time. Not set up to lift, I don't know what they were doing over there. A few men could fit in it, they asked me if I still had my tub of black goo and my spatula.
I also bring topsoil sometimes.


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## GlennG (Jan 24, 2008)

You know your a wanabe when you spend all your time on an internet forum talking about how much of a hack you are not instead of going to bed early because your muscles and bones are tired from the work you did today and the day before and the day before that. Your all a bunch of wannabes. Man up you poseurs.


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## capetrees (Jan 24, 2008)

You know you're a hypocrite when ....:looser:


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## Slvrmple72 (Jan 24, 2008)

GlennG, nice pic but where is your helmet?


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## Scots Climber (Jan 24, 2008)

You know you are a hack when you use a 7/32" file on a 3/16" chain!


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## Scots Climber (Jan 24, 2008)

Sprig said:


> why waste that man! Bit o' mix.....................nah, cruel.
> 
> Just one more hacker tale, "...hey I been cuttin' fer years..." I end up with the saw a week later (bout a year ago now) from the great ladies who run the charity I help with (read MS270 does its duty thread), teeth have more different angles on them than a love letter written in Chinese, bar is burnt like the virgin mary cheese toast, took a wooden spatula to clean most of saw, filter looked like a piece of OSB (due to the fantastic sharpening job), one of the 'helpers' poured mix into the oil tank, poured out the gas to find several ounces of water in the bottom......... GAH! At this point the folks who'd hired him wanted to pack in the wood business, too much bs., I bought the saw (could say near stole but I've paid my dues 10x) cleaned it up, they put me to work on my own time as I can, been running it ever since and gettin' the jobs done and keepin' folks warm. Most recent of many tales of woe, hacks to me are people who just don't give a rat's butt about anything or anyone, take the money and run, carp all over everyone as they run down the road to their next disaster, I can live without 'em.
> 
> ...


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## Treetom (Feb 20, 2008)

*Not sure Hack is a nice enough word...*

I read about this in the latest TCI mag. http://www.theledger.com/article/20071221/NEWS/712210413

And don't miss the article about the illegal immigrant who sued a tree company for $30K.


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## Mitchell (Feb 20, 2008)

*what a dirt bag*



Treetom said:


> I read about this in the latest TCI mag. http://www.theledger.com/article/20071221/NEWS/712210413
> 
> And don't miss the article about the illegal immigrant who sued a tree company for $30K.



I wonder if he'll do time, I hope so.


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## (WLL) (Feb 20, 2008)

*bad tree work*

im glad they went down and i hope all of the companies that are out there doing bad work all get sued and go under. i cant stand poor pruning and it should be outlawed completely in residential tree care. america needs to protect and care for the few trees we have left. *we are talking about our trees people!!! *


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## treemandan (Feb 20, 2008)

*Hard Con ?*

The fact that they got arrested is unbelieveable. I have to read it a few more times, thing is don't believe half of what hear and none of what you read. Or is the other way around?
For 35 Grand what did they spray on the lawn? Who paints driveways? A lady lives that long to be duped by that guy?


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## tree MDS (Feb 21, 2008)

Man that looks like low bidder work, that poor old lady. Nice to see that scumbag is gettin his. Now just for laughs go back and look at that picture of her next to that beutiful cut and imagine her thinking what a good deal she got from the low bidder- I dont know, just makes me laugh. It seems to sum up how generally clueless most homeowners are. Good thing most of the real hacks here just cut trees down, most seem to get through that ok. It would be even more annoying if they were getting paid to destroy nice trees. Its real competitive here so they are scared of gettin turned in for not having license- wich they probably would - eventually.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Feb 21, 2008)

tree MDS said:


> Man that looks like low bidder work, that poor old lady. Nice to see that scumbag is gettin his. Now just for laughs go back and look at that picture of her next to that beutiful cut and imagine her thinking what a good deal she got from the low bidder- I dont know, just makes me laugh. It seems to sum up how generally clueless most homeowners are. Good thing most of the real hacks here just cut trees down, most seem to get through that ok. It would be even more annoying if they were getting paid to destroy nice trees. Its real competitive here so they are scared of gettin turned in for not having license- wich they probably would - eventually.



That's scammer work not low bidder. Many low bid operators are legitimate tree experts.


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## Sprig (Feb 21, 2008)

*Aw man!*



Mitchell said:


> I wonder if he'll do time, I hope so.


I hope so too! Many preditors out there hurtin' people like this, really, really pisses me off, if I was nearby I go and help her get a few things fixed gratis.
 grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr *mf's legs first* grrrrrrrrrrrrrr  
And the painted driveway? I can think of a much better place for that paint, and a great use for old feather pillows. Bring back the pillory (sp) I says! shackle these stupid people in the town center and supply compost ta heave at 'em...................... nah, too nice, sry. 


Serge


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## tree MDS (Feb 21, 2008)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> That's scammer work not low bidder. Many low bid operators are legitimate tree experts.


True, I worked for too long for too cheap, and honestly still did good work, but I had low overhead so I could sort of justify it. Now I got more overhead (bucket and ins on it) and it seems like with the market and all the new guys that gotta survive as well that I may still have to do it- at least when its just yellow page calls. I really dont want to and am seriously debating it, but I didnt come this far to sit home because all the hacks are out underbiddin- either on purpose or because they dont know any better. 
Maybe its just winter (I'll hope) but when you've been givin bids in the same area for 12 years ya kind of know what its supposed to be right ? Maybe this is why I dont like winter work and usually just try and save up. Honestly, what do you think all these new guys are gonna do when the payments on all that new equipment start to strangle them ? Work too cheap right ! The same thing I'm debating right ! Bad cycle, bad for treework. Sorry, just venting and slow.


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## kruege84 (Feb 22, 2008)

You know you're a hack when: you drive the dump truck down the sidewalk with the spreader turned down because you're too lazy to get out to salt.

I would never be guilty of such a thing..... :hmm3grin2orange:


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## Themadd1 (Feb 22, 2008)

You know your a hack when you think the day is over when you get back to the shop. I am still here at the office at 7:25 printing out a few thousand renewal letters for our spray program. 

I could really go for a beer right now...


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## ronnyb (Feb 22, 2008)

You know your a hack when you think you get good advice off of this site.


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## DonnyO (Feb 22, 2008)

ronnyb said:


> You know your a hack when you think you get good advice off of this site.




you know you're a hack when you make statements like this...........


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## (WLL) (Feb 25, 2008)

you know you are a Hack when you drive a zamboni 5 days a week and do tree work on the weekends.:hmm3grin2orange:


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## DonnyO (Feb 25, 2008)

don't believe everything you read junior...

Your spelling has gotten better, now you just need help with your grammar.....:looser:


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## treeslayer666 (Feb 25, 2008)

GlennG said:


> You know your a wanabe when you spend all your time on an internet forum talking about how much of a hack you are not instead of going to bed early because your muscles and bones are tired from the work you did today and the day before and the day before that. Your all a bunch of wannabes. Man up you poseurs.



You know your a hack when your doing a removal and leave 4" nubs all the way up & when you rig the tops they get hung up all the way down


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## DonnyO (Feb 25, 2008)

treeslayer666 said:


> You know your a hack when your doing a removal and leave 4" nubs all the way up & when you rig the tops they get hung up all the way down




and you don't have all of the proper PPE, let alone a decent topping saw.......


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## treeslayer666 (Feb 25, 2008)

DonnyO said:


> and you don't have all of the proper PPE, let alone a decent topping saw.......



Ha.. I didn't even notice the saw...looks like the toy saw my stihl dealer gave my 2 year old son when I was picking up a couple new 660's


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## DonnyO (Feb 25, 2008)

echo 341, not a bad pruning saw, then again maybe thats whats going on in the pic............


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## tree MDS (Feb 25, 2008)

treeslayer666 said:


> You know your a hack when your doing a removal and leave 4" nubs all the way up & when you rig the tops they get hung up all the way down


+1, looks he is the poser to me, show us something a 1 year climber could do ? What about tops poser, thats the hard part !


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## Col2y (Feb 29, 2008)

treeslayer666 said:


> You know your a hack when your doing a removal and leave 4" nubs all the way up & when you rig the tops they get hung up all the way down



he can use it as a ladder on his decent haha


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## oharatree (Feb 29, 2008)

*a poser?*

Where do you come off with poser? I'll tell you what a poser is. A guy that posts a pic of himself sitting in a saddle with a few rookie cuts made around him. Did your boss run up the tree and lower those tops out after your photo shoot? A poser is the guy that cries like a girl about how he hurts and has no energy every day of the week. Try climbing all day, while dealing with customers, doing estimates all evening, fixing anything broken from that day of work, giving your wife and kids the time they need from you, then sitting down to do phone calls over a cold dinner. Maybe then you'll know what tired looks and feels like. Climbing is one of the easier parts of the day, poser.


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## Col2y (Feb 29, 2008)

oharatree said:


> Where do you come off with poser? I'll tell you what a poser is. A guy that posts a pic of himself sitting in a saddle with a few rookie cuts made around him. Did your boss run up the tree and lower those tops out after your photo shoot? A poser is the guy that cries like a girl about how he hurts and has no energy every day of the week. Try climbing all day, while dealing with customers, doing estimates all evening, fixing anything broken from that day of work, giving your wife and kids the time they need from you, then sitting down to do phone calls over a cold dinner. Maybe then you'll know what tired looks and feels like. Climbing is one of the easier parts of the day, poser.



a little bitter are we?? sounds like someone needs a hug


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## oharatree (Feb 29, 2008)

not bitter in the least. If I was bitter I'd change careers. I just dont have the least bit of pity for the guy.


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## oharatree (Feb 29, 2008)

Call me crazy, but I'm not one to join in on a topic by blasting everyone that had something to contribute to the topic. I'm the type of guy that hits back. On a lighter note, its funny that a guy tells everyone they are posers and should be too tired to hold this conversation, yet he has the energy to read through it and contribute to the topic. Like i said, call me crazy.


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## Fallen Angel (Mar 2, 2008)

Do I sense a little hostility here boys?? Just wonderin' why everyone has such negative attitudes and callin' people posers when you have no idea who or what they are all about. Just my opinion....but when you go around giving people a hard time like ya'll are, there might be some resentment going on. As far as all of the calls, estimates, little or no family time??? that comes w/ the territory of owning or running a successful Tree Care company. You might be a hack if you are busting everyones balls for having a little fun.


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## throwbag (Mar 5, 2008)

*you know your a hack*

when you have never used a throwline, cant tie a climbing knot or any other useful knot and the only thing you can tie is a Houdini knot.


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## deanminor35 (Apr 8, 2011)

TreeCo said:


> You know you are a hack when:
> 
> You have to pick up your crew in the morning.......because they have lost their driving licenses.


 
some of the best tree workers around don't have a driver license.lol


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## NCTREE (Apr 8, 2011)

deanminor35 said:


> some of the best tree workers around don't have a driver license.lol


 
or greencards


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## prentice110 (Apr 8, 2011)

*Bogus thread!!!!!*

Hacks dont know there hacks! Whos been digging up the old stuff? I like it!


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## freeweight (Apr 8, 2011)

to me a hack is the strung out drug user,a person raving about finding a "granny" to scam

they dont rope very much if at all

they will take any chance they THINK they can get away with

they drink ONSITE(alcohol)

they forget MOST of the equipment at home ,leave equipment on jobs and never go back to get it

if they happen to forget spikes on a removal they dont even dare to let the thought of getting the tree done rope climbing cross there mind


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## Frax (Apr 8, 2011)

Drove past a bunch of guys - ladder on top of the chip truck box which was leaned against a spruce tree. The guy on the ladder was re-shaping the spruce with a chainsaw- one handed of course.
I SO wish I had a video cam.


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## LB30 (Apr 8, 2011)

freeweight said:


> to me a hack is the strung out drug user,a person raving about finding a "granny" to scam
> 
> they dont rope very much if at all
> 
> ...


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## prentice110 (Apr 8, 2011)

LB30 said:


> You described my boss to a T, it took me a week and reading this thread to finally figure it out(sorry kind of new to the business), so anyone know of some good people looking for good help.
> 
> Jon


 
look in your local yellow pages or google search your area for a co with a web site and look at it and make a desision as to weather or not they look legit


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## ropensaddle (Apr 9, 2011)

Well gotta get up early folks got five hat racks to do


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## sgreanbeans (Apr 9, 2011)

Some of or local talent! Notice the beers!


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## prentice110 (Apr 9, 2011)

sgreanbeans said:


> Some of or local talent! Notice the beers!


 
Couldnt quite catch the co name off of the shirt:msp_tongue: Who the hell wears shorts to a tree job?


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## Natewood (Apr 9, 2011)

while looking fairly unprofessional, or "casual" it looks like they did a decent job.... But shorts and sneakers?No eye protectiom? it looked so hot and sunny you'd need shades so you dont lose your eyesight!


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## tree MDS (Apr 9, 2011)

sgreanbeans said:


> Some of or local talent! Notice the beers!


 
Hahaha. That's some old school looking tree crew right there! Reminds me of back in the day.. I don't know how we survived.


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## ropensaddle (Apr 9, 2011)

tree MDS said:


> Hahaha. That's some old school looking tree crew right there! Reminds me of back in the day.. I don't know how we survived.


 
It was the beer lol


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## tree MDS (Apr 9, 2011)

ropensaddle said:


> It was the beer lol



Lol.

Aww man rope, you haven't lived until you've sipped beers with the customer at the end of a job.. while the guys are finishing cleanup.

Just this morning I was looking at this dead, chubby cottonwood for an old lady that was in one of them lark things. She was telling me how she would have cold drinks for us while we were working, and cold beers at the end. I can already see myself sitting on the porch with that nice old lady and her husband.. while the boys wrap things up! :hmm3grin2orange:


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## ropensaddle (Apr 9, 2011)

tree MDS said:


> Lol.
> 
> Aww man rope, you haven't lived until you've sipped beers with the customer at the end of a job.. while the guys are finishing cleanup.
> 
> Just this morning I was looking at this dead, chubby cottonwood for an old lady that was in one of them lark things. She was telling me how she would have cold drinks for us while we were working, and cold beers at the end. I can already see myself sitting on the porch with that nice old lady and her husband.. while the boys wrap things up! :hmm3grin2orange:


 
I have gave up the stuff but thoroughly enjoyed myself some in the day bro


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## tree MDS (Apr 9, 2011)

ropensaddle said:


> I have gave up the stuff but thoroughly enjoyed myself some in the day bro


 
Yeah, I rarely touch the stuff myself, but if it's in the name of public relations, I can sometimes be persuaded. :angel:


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## prentice110 (Apr 9, 2011)

*You know your a hack when.....*

You work for Prentice110!!!!!:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


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## sgreanbeans (Apr 10, 2011)

A long time ago, we did a storm removal, tree was laid out over a brand new deck and hot tub, we got it out with no probs, the whole time, every time we would make a crucial cut, the HO would run around the yard, hi fiveing the crew, fist pumping the whole nine that you would expect at a final four game! When we where done, he brings out a case of Miller Lite, I tell thanks, but we cant pop a top till I get all the equipment back to the shop. We get back, unload and secure. Guys are ready for the beer, we go out to the bone fire pit, open the case.............ITS FULL OF MILWAUKEE'S BEST!!!
Dude had put them in there and taped it shut! I'm not a drinker, on the very rare occasion, I will have a couple beers or a glass of wine, my guys on the other hand! They didnt care, really, that beast was drank with passion!


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## ropensaddle (Apr 10, 2011)

sgreanbeans said:


> A long time ago, we did a storm removal, tree was laid out over a brand new deck and hot tub, we got it out with no probs, the whole time, every time we would make a crucial cut, the HO would run around the yard, hi fiveing the crew, fist pumping the whole nine that you would expect at a final four game! When we where done, he brings out a case of Miller Lite, I tell thanks, but we cant pop a top till I get all the equipment back to the shop. We get back, unload and secure. Guys are ready for the beer, we go out to the bone fire pit, open the case.............ITS FULL OF MILWAUKEE'S BEST!!!
> Dude had put them in there and taped it shut! I'm not a drinker, on the very rare occasion, I will have a couple beers or a glass of wine, my guys on the other hand! They didnt care, really, that beast was drank with passion!


 
Slow start next day lol?


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## Oak Savanna (Apr 10, 2011)

We were clearing a lot a couple years back and it was in between 2 existing houses. Lots of trees leaning towards the houses on each side so we got there early and started setting pull lines up in the trees. Of course the audience comes after the skid steer, saws and chipper fire up! The neighbour next door had been watching us drop trees for some time from his yard. We shut down for lunch and when we came back we could hear some one buzzing a tree! Sounded like mom carving a turkey with the electic knife! We walk to the back of the lot and notice the neighbour who had been watching us all morning, chewing away at this little norway maple in his back yard. He had the neighbour from across the road come over with his electric saw, they had it plugged into the house, the cord running up through the tree and back down to the saw and one guy was sawing and the other was yanking on the power cord trying to pull this little 6 inch tree over!! No problem! I know how its done now after watching these guys all morning! Nothing to it!!! Then we left a poplar tree on the lot that was kinda leaning toward his house. It wasnt marked so we didnt cut it. The neighbour comes over just as we are starting to pack up the gear ( I knew what was coming!!) and says can you guys chip us this brush for me from the tree I cut down and would you guys be able to take that poplar down thats leaning toward my house? Sure we can! $150 I tell him! he agrees to it, I dropped it and the skid steer took it to the chipper and it was all over in under 5 min! Thanks buddy! 

Pulled into a job on friday to remove 4 oaks. Noticed the neighbours oak is looking like a hat rack! Fresh cuts all really bad, bark tore down the limbs! I say to my client, whats up with that? He says nice isnt it! $75 for that he says! He tells me some clown in an old ladder truck with a bucket on the end was going through the neighbourhood hacking up trees for $75 each! Beer money!

You know you are a hack when your stump is in the shape of a "V" after you drop the log or tree! I always see quite a few stumps with the back cut on a 45 too! Classic!


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## Donald (Apr 11, 2011)

mkarlson said:


> you know your a hack if your reading this thread trying to figure out if you are a hack or not.:monkey:


 
lol....


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## sgreanbeans (Apr 12, 2011)

Another one!
Buddy of mine asked us to help at his dads best friends house, Tyron Jackson was the name, not being racial, but fully expected the guy to be black, guy was a middle aged white nerd, he had a tree fall in his driveway, we show, he is out there, in a richard simmons work out get up, sweat bands and all! We agree on a price, as we are talking, he is sweating like crazy, I ask him if he was working out, he said no been trying to cut this thing up all day, huh?, little tree, 20 minutes at the most, asked to see his saw. Chain was on backwards!!!! Dude had been out there cutting on it all mourning, had 3 little logs cut up!! He about died when I fired the 200 and went on a rampage!
Still cant get over his name!
My best freind just married a girl named Dewanda Martinez, shes a white farm girl!


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## Grace Tree (Apr 12, 2011)

I put a chain on backwards once. I just jumped over to the other side of the tree.
Phil


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## ropensaddle (Apr 12, 2011)

Small Wood said:


> I put a chain on backwards once. I just jumped over to the other side of the tree.
> Phil


 
Ehhhh hmmmmmm, so howd da work out for yea


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## Grace Tree (Apr 12, 2011)

ropensaddle said:


> Ehhhh hmmmmmm, so howd da work out for yea


 Not so good. Turned out it was backwards on that side too.
Phil


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## Bigus Termitius (Apr 12, 2011)

Try turning the bar upside down....that usually helps.


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## Grace Tree (Apr 12, 2011)

Bigus Termitius said:


> Try turning the bar upside down....that usually helps.


 
OK. Thanks for the good advice.
Phil


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## Timbit (Apr 12, 2011)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> Oil change procedure for hacks:
> 
> step one, drain oil
> 1.5 have a beer
> ...


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## sgreanbeans (Apr 14, 2011)

Small Wood said:


> Not so good. Turned out it was backwards on that side too.
> Phil


 
Now that was funny!!, almost spit coffee on the screen!


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