# I hate sanding!



## betterbuilt (Dec 27, 2014)

I know there are better forums to post this on, but this is the only place I'm a member of. 

So I've been trying to get the most out of my time while sanding these large slabs. I added a 50 inch drum sander to the shop this year. 
I'm saving 75-90% the time, I would be using a router to level slabs. That's not including the clean up. So far It's performing all the leveling I need on the shorter stuff I'm running through it. I'm only using the drum sander with 80 grit(too lazy to change the paper, maybe). I still end up using the orbital sander. 

So my question is those of you that use a Orbital sander, what sand paper are you using? Currently I have some Norton paper that's just junk. It wears out way too fast.

I'm thinking about trying Mirka Abranet. Just trying to get a little more mileage for the cost. Any thoughts/suggestions on sand paper? Thanks 

Off topic: I picked up a bandsaw this summer and I'm wondering how I got along without it.


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## Sawyer Rob (Dec 27, 2014)

IF your slabs are on the rough side, you can't expect any sand paper to work well.

IF your slabs are on the green side, same thing, no sand paper will work well...

SR


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## betterbuilt (Dec 27, 2014)

Sawyer Rob said:


> IF your slabs are on the rough side, you can't expect any sand paper to work well.
> 
> IF your slabs are on the green side, same thing, no sand paper will work well...
> 
> SR


I'm more asking if anyone has found a better sandpaper or method that makes the paper last longer after the surface has been leveled. Most of the stuff i'm working on has been air dried for many years. I have a process for drying that seems to work. I only used the easy to get yellow and red orbital discs.


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## BC WetCoast (Dec 27, 2014)

You might try the sand paper they supply with the orbital floor sanders you can rent at HD/Lowes etc. You would have to cut it to fit.

As an extension to my idea, you could try renting one of the floor sanders and use that to sand with.


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## kimosawboy (Dec 27, 2014)

Try some german sandpapers...ERSTA is great for wood. 
Ya, ya, ya its not easy to get and its more $$ BUT it last a real/real long time, does not load up easily and for me you get the most bang for your buck.


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## betterbuilt (Dec 27, 2014)

BC WetCoast said:


> You might try the sand paper they supply with the orbital floor sanders you can rent at HD/Lowes etc. You would have to cut it to fit.
> 
> As an extension to my idea, you could try renting one of the floor sanders and use that to sand with.


 
I own one of those floor sanders. I bought it thinking it would save time which it did kind of. The real issue is it left swirlies from hell. I stopped using it because I was ending up having to sand more to get rid of the swirlies. I now have a floor sander if I ever need it.


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## betterbuilt (Dec 27, 2014)

kimosawboy said:


> Try some german sandpapers...ERSTA is great for wood.
> Ya, ya, ya its not easy to get and its more $$ BUT it last a real/real long time, does not load up easily and for me you get the most bang for your buck.


I really need something like that. Man it feels like I blow $40US every week or two on orbital sandpaper.


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## Jim Timber (Dec 27, 2014)

We had a 40" or so Timesaver belt sander in the HS wood shop. Someday I'd love to get one, but that's a few years out yet.

1/8" per pass in oak was sweet.


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## KiwiBro (Dec 28, 2014)

Just learned of these:


www.surcare.com


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## betterbuilt (Dec 28, 2014)

KiwiBro said:


> Just learned of these:
> 
> 
> www.surcare.com




Nice looking sander. priced at $1800 us dollars. I doubt I'd get that one by the SWMBO. 

When I bought the U-sand sander I was hoping it would preform like the video says this one does.


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## betterbuilt (Dec 28, 2014)

I'm looking at the Klingspor Stearate for more of my Rough sanding and the switching to Mirka Abranet for the finishing.

There are so many papers out there. Has anyone tried any of these? 
3M Sandblaster
Ace Hardware Hook and Loop
Bosch Standard
Craftsman Standard and Professional
Gator Power and Gator Ultra Power
Klingspor Stearate and Heavyweight
Makita Hook and Loop
Mirka Abranet and Gold 
Norton 3X and MultiAir
Porter-Cable 
Shopsmith
Supergrit
RHYNO WHITE 
RED RESIN

I'm done with the norton 3x. I've tried Gator and had varying results depending on the grit. There was some white grit paper that I liked alot, 3m maybe.


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## ncpete (Dec 28, 2014)

CABINET SCRAPER. sorry to yell that, but CABINET SCRAPER. leaves a perfect, finish ready surface, with substantially less effort than sanding. Easy to throw a long lasting burr on the card, and go. I use one of mine without a holder for smaller pieces, but have a holder for when I am working larger pieces, because the scraper can get hot very quickly.
http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/147420/3pc-Straight-Scraper-Set.aspx
http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/147419/Curved-Scraper-Set-of-4.aspx

and a holder, which I suspect you have the capacity to make:

http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/144521/Wooden-Scraper-Holder.aspx

I have used my scrapers on turned pieces, too.


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## kimosawboy (Dec 28, 2014)

For the most part you are paying for the name on the Ace Hardware/porter cable/makita/bosch/shopsmith......not really worth it.
Klingspor -I have used and still use , good stuff and some nifty crap on there web site....http://www.klingspor.com/referencedesk.htm
I have used the Mirka wet paper with really nice results, never tried the dry stuff.
3M I like but its a tad pricey and there web site is difficult to navigate thru.
Keep us appraised of what you are finally going with and the results.


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## betterbuilt (Dec 28, 2014)

Ncpete. I have a cabinet scraper, or twenty. lol. I'll give that another shot today. Your right they do work. I just found them hard on the hands. I do use them a lot for glue removal and areas where the grain is really hard because they are faster then a sander.

Kimosawboy: Thanks for the help. I'm aware of the paper thats printed with a tool or a store on the packaging. I just cut and pasted that list. I haven't decided what I'm gonna order yet. I'll be ordering something soon. 

Thanks. I'm off to scrape some White oak. Fun fun fun


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## ncpete (Dec 28, 2014)

Somewhere I have a cast iron card scraper holder - I really like it - and you are right, they can be hard on the hands, especially when using with bare hands, and no holder. I use card scrapers to finish all my cutting boards - I use my 20" planer for final dimension work --- If you don't have a Byrd head or similar on your equipment - the investment is well worth it - have one in my jointer, but I can't get the $800 expense for the planer past SWMBO. So, I find myself cleaning up cutting boards with a router for the edges, and then scrape, scrape, scrape. Purple Heart is super fun to work with, and is a frequent theme in my cutting boards - makes White Oak feel like poplar after working it a bunch. Run some Yellow Heart through your machine - I love working with it for the pleasant scent of cloves that then permeates my shop. And, because I have a cheap dust collector - with bags, and not a cyclone - the scent of cloves hangs around for days after working a lot of it, at least until I dump the bag.


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## firebrick43 (Dec 28, 2014)

Lee valley sells a holder for card scrapers and a scraping plane. Both work excellent and once paid for up front no more cost for maybe a decade? I also like the file jig they sell for sharpening. The burnished works ok but so does a dull carbide drill glued backwards into a wood handle. The scraping plane has a learning curve but once you get it figured out 
Scrapers don't plug the pores and make the grain look dull/muddy
Plus with any sander but a stroke sander I can see swirl marks.

I have had to prove several times to buddies that scrapers are faster to boot. And the fine dust ruins your lungs unless you have a really top notch 2000+$ dust extractor or a half face respirator.


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## betterbuilt (Dec 28, 2014)

ncpete said:


> Somewhere I have a cast iron card scraper holder - I really like it - and you are right, they can be hard on the hands, especially when using with bare hands, and no holder. I use card scrapers to finish all my cutting boards - I use my 20" planer for final dimension work --- If you don't have a Byrd head or similar on your equipment - the investment is well worth it - have one in my jointer, but I can't get the $800 expense for the planer past SWMBO. So, I find myself cleaning up cutting boards with a router for the edges, and then scrape, scrape, scrape. Purple Heart is super fun to work with, and is a frequent theme in my cutting boards - makes White Oak feel like poplar after working it a bunch. Run some Yellow Heart through your machine - I love working with it for the pleasant scent of cloves that then permeates my shop. And, because I have a cheap dust collector - with bags, and not a cyclone - the scent of cloves hangs around for days after working a lot of it, at least until I dump the bag.



I only work with domestic woods. All yard trees. I actually haven't planed a board since I got the drum sander. Most of the things I build are only a few boards. No real need for a planer at the moment. I do have one.

So I scraped the white oak slab. Actually kind of pleasant not listening to the dust collector or the oribital. I got an okay bur and some decent shavings. I'm still getting micro lines. So your not sanding at all? I'm guessing you sand some? I have one of those bur setting tools that LeeValley sells I just can't locate it at the moment. 

And my thumbs are screaming buy some sandpaper you cheap ba#[email protected]%^.


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## ncpete (Dec 28, 2014)

the small lines you are getting may be the result of not getting a perfect burr on the edge of the scraper? putting a slight curve into the scraper will really put your thumbs to work, and should reduce the tendency for lines to result from burrs that are common at the pointed edges of the scraper - that is one of the /very/ nice features of the lee valley holder that Firebrick43 pointed out. Scraping is a great way to warm up the hands on a cold day, and your hands will start to look like this guy ->


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## ncpete (Dec 28, 2014)

oh, and yeah, I still do some sanding. anything that is getting painted - like a door? goes through the drum sander. 37" of dust producing beastliness. Ask my how much I like painted wood products... - when nice color can be created with the woods themselves. - purples, reds, blacks, yellows, whites, oranges, and so many variations on those - like zebra? like fiddleback? like birdseye? (did Zebra on a $30k kitchen, once. Veneer only - it /really/ made the materials cost go up)


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## firebrick43 (Dec 28, 2014)

The only place I use sandpaper is 320 or 400 grit lightly between coats of shellac. Sometimes I get ambitious an prepare boards completely by hand but most of the time I plane to thickness on the planer and rip large parts. I find if I do my part and keep the planer knives sharp there is not a necessity to sand/scrape that much.


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## betterbuilt (Dec 28, 2014)

I found a thick scraper that didn't give me the lines the thinner ones were making.


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## hazard (Dec 29, 2014)

klingspor sterate sandpaper. I have been using this stuff for +15 years. Best that I have used.

I would take my glued up panels to a local cabinet shop to get sanded on a large belt sander to say 80 grit. I then use a palm sander with 80,150,220 grits.

Chris


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## betterbuilt (Jan 1, 2015)

Okay the more I research sandpaper the less I understand. There seems to be a few different klingspor stearates. I mostly work with Walnut, White Oak, Cherry, Slippery Elm, and Birch. Which ones are you using?

AZ-PLUS STEARATE
HEAVYWEIGHT A/O
KLINGSPOR GOLD STEARATE A/O
LIGHTWEIGHT A/O
STEARATE A/O
STEARATE S/C
TRU-BLU A/O


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## Todd Peterson (Jan 1, 2015)

I am a big fan of the Klingspor sandpaper. I have tried several different one from them and had good luck with all of them. Beats the hell out of the stuff you get from Home Depot.


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## betterbuilt (Jan 1, 2015)

Todd Peterson said:


> I am a big fan of the Klingspor sandpaper. I have tried several different one from them and had good luck with all of them. Beats the hell out of the stuff you get from Home Depot.


In my last post those were all klingspor sandpapers. I was trying to figure out which one people were recommending. I didn't know they made so many.


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## Todd Peterson (Jan 1, 2015)

I usually use the heavyweight a/o. They seem to last a long time. I have used several of the others you listed as well. I would suggest ordering a few of each and see for yourself.


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## hazard (Jan 1, 2015)

This is the sandpaper I use

http://www.woodworkingshop.com/product/sh33500/#.VKYM3XsWM9s


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## ncpete (Jan 2, 2015)

hazard said:


> This is the sandpaper I use
> 
> http://www.woodworkingshop.com/product/sh33500/#.VKYM3XsWM9s



Exactly what I have boxes of, somewhere, in my shop.  I have it in disks, too, somewhere, but as stated earlier, my scraper is my 'go-to' tool.


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## betterbuilt (Jan 2, 2015)

Thanks everyone. I plan on using the scraper more. I have a shoulder issue that comes and goes. I need to have some sandpaper for when I can't run the scraper.


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## Timberframed (Jan 5, 2015)

Guys guys guys. Good to be back! Get yourselves a pair of Rockwell/Porter Cable 505 1/2 sheet sanders and go to town after your router planing op. No swirls. One in each hand. Sand real smooth a slab 55" x 100" in a couple hours, Get your grits online through woodworkers supply and buy bulk. Don't forget those rubber-like cleaning blocks for your belts. 505 bottom. New aquisition the Flexander center. 33.5" x 2" belt does curved work like a charm. Circa 69.


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## MarcusB (Jan 5, 2015)

Hey Betterbuilt, the floor sander you say you have, Im assuming its a 16 inch buffer? Were you using sandpaper on on it or a screen?


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## betterbuilt (Jan 5, 2015)

Timberframed said:


> Guys guys guys. Good to be back! Get yourselves a pair of Rockwell/Porter Cable 505 1/2 sheet sanders and go to town after your router planing op. No swirls. One in each hand. Sand real smooth a slab 55" x 100" in a couple hours, Get your grits online through woodworkers supply and buy bulk. Don't forget those rubber-like cleaning blocks for your belts. 505 bottom. New aquisition the Flexander center. 33.5" x 2" belt does curved work like a charm. Circa 69.View attachment 392085


Long time no see. Its not the swirls that was getting me it was the time. I bought a 50 inch drum sander so the majority of the work is done. The paper I had just wasn't lasting long enough to pay for it's self. I tried one of the PC sheet sanders and the padding under the paper was so old it turn to dust in a matter of seconds. I like my orbital. I ordered paper from klingspor the other day.


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## betterbuilt (Jan 5, 2015)

MarcusB said:


> Hey Betterbuilt, the floor sander you say you have, Im assuming its a 16 inch buffer? Were you using sandpaper on on it or a screen?


I ended up buying one similar to this one. I have used it in the past and it worked well, but the scratches it made were pretty deep. I found if you start with say 80-100 it worked okay, but I still ended up spending hour/ days sanding. 

The best sander I had was 10 bucks an hour. but he doesn't drive so I had to go pick him up and take him home. Good kid just not worth the effort.


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## betterbuilt (Jan 5, 2015)

Let's see some scraper shavings.

Anybody out there use a spokeshave?

Flap sanders?


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## ncpete (Jan 5, 2015)

Spoke shave for shaping, sure, but not outright smoothing.


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## betterbuilt (Jan 9, 2015)

Sand paper arrived last night. I decided to try not skipping grits also. I'm guessing that maybe one of my issues also.


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## betterbuilt (Jan 9, 2015)

Seriously I would like to see some scraper shaving. Something I can compare and aspire too. I remember when I first started using them I got really fine delicate shaving. Now I'm getting small shavings, but mostly dust. I still haven't found my burnisher. I've been using a screwdriver. It doesn't work as well as the burnisher. 

Ncpete. I know what a spoke shave is for. I just watched a video on youtube and was reminded I have one but rarely use it for work. I mostly use it for making fire starter.


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## ncpete (Jan 9, 2015)

betterbuilt said:


> Seriously I would like to see some scraper shaving. Something I can compare and aspire too. I remember when I first started using them I got really fine delicate shaving. Now I'm getting small shavings, but mostly dust. I still haven't found my burnisher. I've been using a screwdriver. It doesn't work as well as the burnisher.
> 
> Ncpete. I know what a spoke shave is for. I just watched a video on youtube and was reminded I have one but rarely use it for work. I mostly use it for making fire starter.



yeah, burnisher is definitely a worthwhile purchase - lost mine while doing a shop move to a former partner. Lost some other tools too, a lot of them were bigger than a burnisher. This reminds me that I have a mallet I could stand to use my shave on to add some more shape to the turned handle.


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## ncpete (Jan 9, 2015)

betterbuilt said:


> I ended up buying one similar to this one. I have used it in the past and it worked well, but the scratches it made were pretty deep. I found if you start with say 80-100 it worked okay, but I still ended up spending hour/ days sanding.
> 
> The best sander I had was 10 bucks an hour. but he doesn't drive so I had to go pick him up and take him home. Good kid just not worth the effort.
> View attachment 392106


That is a beautiful slab!
I guess, working on something that big for finish - I would rent some time on a 50" TimeSaver. WOW that is nice. any pics of it finished?


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## ncpete (Jan 9, 2015)

hah, firestarter - should have thought of that when I had my 20" planer, with straight knives, it would make some pretty neat kindling which would have been great to keep for the rare cold southern night which requires a fire.


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## betterbuilt (Jan 9, 2015)

ncpete said:


> That is a beautiful slab!
> I guess, working on something that big for finish - I would rent some time on a 50" TimeSaver. WOW that is nice. any pics of it finished?



I lost a few pictures when my camera turned up missing. Kinda irritating. lost, stolen, misplaced, I haven't got a clue. It was right around 50 inches wide. It's off being used as a conference table. It was nice. I spent a lot of time on it. I even scraped it some.


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## betterbuilt (Jan 9, 2015)

ncpete said:


> hah, firestarter - should have thought of that when I had my 20" planer, with straight knives, it would make some pretty neat kindling which would have been great to keep for the rare cold southern night which requires a fire.



I'm constantly ending up with broken stickers and other thing so I make shaving for getting the shop stove going. Usually it's 
really cold, so I go over to the shop when I get up. I'm usually way under dressed and don't want to spend more the a minute or two starting a fire. Instant fire.


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## firebrick43 (Jan 10, 2015)

I find a carbide drill shank to be the best burnisher

Make a handle similar to a file/chisel handle. Put a ferrel on it if you wish(copper union fitting) if you wish but not necessary. Drill a hole the diameter of the drill (1/4 -3/8 work best) and epoxy the drill backwards into the handle so the shank hangs out an inch or so. If you have a machinist buddy ask if the have a used drill. Broken tips or dull perfectly ok!

If you have 50$ to spare 
http://www.bluesprucetools.com/cgi/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=CB.250


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## ncpete (Jan 10, 2015)

Those are nice!


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