# Problems receiving payment.



## AAASTUMPSERVICE

I own a stump grinding business and received a call from a local landscape company needing help with two large stumps. I went out to the home he was working at and removed the stumps, cleaned up and talked with the owner of the company about payment. He was to send me a payment in the mail and now it has been three weeks and I have been told two different times that the money has been sent...excuse after excuse and now I feel like I won't see that money. How do I go about getting my money that is owed to me? I have thought of a few ideas but I would like to stay out of jail....I guess I have learned a lesson, NEVER leave a job site without payment. I was excited thinking I've made a good business relationship with a landscape company and we can both help each other out. I feel like an idiot and definitely not going to give anyone the benefit of the doubt or trust anyone! 

Has anyone ran across this and how did you handle it?

Would it be wise to ask for half the money before I start and half after? That seems rediculous but at least I would know I'm working with an up and up company and i can work hard and do a professional job and know I will be compensated. 

I hope I get some responses on this but if not it was good to vent, thanks.


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## treeman75

I would go to their shop and tell the owner to pay up. I dont know how big of a city your from but if it was me and I saw him some place I would stop and collect it. Did you have any kind of a contract wrote up? I have never been screwd I always find a way to get paid.


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## AAASTUMPSERVICE

treeman75 said:


> I would go to their shop and tell the owner to pay up. I dont know how big of a city your from but if it was me and I saw him some place I would stop and collect it. Did you have any kind of a contract wrote up? I have never been screwd I always find a way to get paid.



I doubt i would ever run into him. I gave him an invoice and he said he would send me a check in the mail. It being my first job for a landscape company I figured he would pay me when he finishes the job. I was excited to get this business relation setup so I was fine with that. Now it's been over three weeks and no payment. He has supposedly sent the check twice now. He says it must be lost in the mail. I called today and asked him to get online and pay via PayPal he said ok...but it's been a few hours and still no payment...surprise surprise! All I have is a name business name and po box number. Not sure how to handle this? I have come up with a few ideas but none that are all that law abiding!!!


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## no tree to big

put a lean on the property the work was done at that will get the homeowners attention and then they will be #####ing at the landscaper and that might motivate him to send you your money and then worst case you get your money when they try and move or try and pull a permit for something else or use his driveway as a dump for all your stump shavings:hmm3grin2orange:


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## AAASTUMPSERVICE

no tree to big said:


> put a lean on the property the work was done at that will get the homeowners attention and then they will be #####ing at the landscaper and that might motivate him to send you your money and then worst case you get your money when they try and move or try and pull a permit for something else or use his driveway as a dump for all your stump shavings:hmm3grin2orange:





I received the check today! If I didn't blow up his phone every day like I've done for the past 4 weeks I doubt I would have every seen the money! 

He is a real jerk! He gave me excuse after excuse and lied multiple times about sending payment... I should post his name number and company name for all to see but i'm too nice...I think that's how I got in this mess...that will not happen again! Things I'm learning along the way....Never really thought a seemingly nice guy would screw me on a few hundred bucks after doing a great job removing the stumps and leaving the place cleaner than when I showed up! Guess I will need half up front before I do anymore jobs for other contractors or some kind of reasurance that I will see $$$$ after my work is done!


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## CK1

Payment upon completion of the job. No reason why he couldnt of wrote u a check at the job site.


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## D&B Mack

Do you have a written contract (proposal, work order, etc.)?

If not, then you will just have to keep annoying him.

If you do, then place a lien.


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## summit583guy

3 weeks isn't all that long........I don't start calling to remind people until its been about 3 weeks, you gotta remember it probably took itleast 2 weeks on his end to get the cheque from his client and a week or so for the mail to get processed. Get used to slow payments, it all part of owning your own biz.


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## ShermanC

*One bad experience does not mean all experiences will be that bad.*

It is good you finally got paid but sad you had to chase him down. Before you start a job find out how long the contractor has been in business and what his PHYSICAL address is. Then make sure to tell the customer and, in this case, his customer that you must be paid in cash at time of job completion and keep a receipt book in your truck. If you sense they are about to stiff you pack up and leave or get a cash deposit before you start work. Keep your truck blocking their truck until you are paid. Not all contractors are bad businessmen like he was. If they did business that way, in our region, they would sink soon. Even though honesty and Credibility rank high in our part of the country we still get some fly-by-night tradespeople here occasionally.


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## poorboypaul

Have you tried cashing the check yet? Would be my next worry.


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## FanOFatherNash

Tuition
To school of hard knocks


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## treebutler

I found that writing up a contract that specifically says 'Payment Upon Completion' really helps, and I always show them that part of the contract and have them initial it along with signature. That way there is no confusion and everybody knows whats going on. Thats just what has worked for me.


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## hanniedog

Take the check to the bank that is from to cash it. That way they can say if there is money to cover it.


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## treecutterjr

When dealing with other contractors I just ask:

" when should I expect payment?" , "upon completion? or is there a waiting period?; etc"

I have dealt with jobs where you have to wait 30 days for payment and that is cool, as long as there is an understanding. Its best to just get it out in the open from the beginning so everyone is on the same page.

I've also done business with some questionable contractors that say they'll pay and just dissappear and never pay. You live and you learn.

Now when I deal with someone that I don't really trust I just make it clear you need to have the money on hand when I come to do the job.

them: "so when can you do the job?"
me: "whenever you've got the money." or "if you've got the money I can do it right now" 

I feel like that kind of language lets them know you are serious about getting paid and If they intended to stiff you it usually makes them move on down the road to someone else.


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## imalogger

One job I did I didn't get paid for close to a year.. I ground out a big maple stump and he promised to stop by with a check. Days, weeks, months went by and finally I stopped in and started talking to him about something else and his conscience must have got the best of him and he brought up the fact that he owed me and got me a check. I never expect someone to pay me in advance. I feel that they shouldn't have to pay for work that hasn't been done yet. In my experience the more I trust the customer, the better for business it is - if I don't trust them how could I expect them to trust me? I doubt it's worth it taking someone to court over a few stumps. I think it probably would be more satisfying to fire up the backhoe and Give them some even bigger stumps than I took out


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## ShermanC

*Seek progress payment for work-in-process*

In cases where a subcontractor, or perhaps the general contractor is delayed by one or several conditions or issues, it is not out of line to request progress payment for what has been completed. Then when the work can start up again and be finished, the customer is aware that the final bill will soon be due and payable.
We did a 90-stump grind job in February at a farm house built in forest land years ago but weather stopped us dead in the mud. We also had to remove layers of packed leaves to get to about 60 more stumps that I didn't find when I tagged, measured and inventoried the work for my estimate in early December. The work ranged from 25" diameter down to 1" and about 40 sapling stubs we could chop out with a mattock axe. Once we finished the front yard the customer suggested progress payment. Then they cleared the leaves out of the side and back yard before we returned. We finished the work in one long day, got paid in full and the job completed on budget or estimated. They gave us a pro boost on my Facebook page and I am confident this good outcome will lead to more work by referrals.:msp_thumbdn:


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## FanOFatherNash

It hasn't happened yet
I hope it doesn't , but the plan is to drop two or three loads of chips and logs in the driveway ( return the unpayed for goods)

then they can pay owed balance, and additional balance for clean up


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## 2dumb4words

Some have had success with calling the local police non-emergency number to request an officer to make a report for "theft of services". While it is considered a civil matter some jurisdictions will send an officer to file a report. If they do, virtually 100% of the time they will write a check immediately.


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## Caghrlos

I don't start calling to remind


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## B Harrison

I realize you have received money, but i don't see that anyone got this idea. On your bill you need a payment agreement......whatever you desire. 

That bill is given when service is completed or mailed that day.
After 3 weeks, and maybe a call to remind a private customer but not a business.... A second invoice with the addition of a late fee after 30 days, next 30 days a third invoice with an addition of a late fee and a percentage of interest of balance due 10%, if you have a verbal agreement on price and these terms are all placed on statements in writing then you will keep a written agreement and after the amount has reached a nice sum say a couple years later, then you place a lien for the full amount, plus late fees and interest against the customers property, not homeowners if you worked for a landscaping company since the homeowner has paid there bill and isn't responsible to you at all.

Then just wait after you file and place a lien you have no other options aside from spreading bad rep and risking a confrontation.
Another quicker option would be to show up after 30 days with a large object in front of there equipment and refuse to move until payed, however, this may be confrontational if not handled very carefully.


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## ChoppyChoppy

I get $$ before I leave.

I had one customer try the "oh... I'll get the money to you later...., no big deal right?"

For someone that I knew well I wouldn't have worried, but this was a brand new customer. I backed the truck to the pile of wood and started loading it back up.
Funny how he came up with the cash pretty quickly. :msp_biggrin:


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## ShneaSIG

A hassle though they may be, a mechanic' lien is always an option. Most state's mechanic's lien statutes have a strict regimen of dates, deadlines, and notices that must be complied with, so for the lien to be enforceable, those hoops must be carefully jumped through.

There can be other requirements to be mindful of, too, to make a mechanic's lien stick. For instance, when it comes to work on a residential property in Missouri, a contract for services between the property owner and the contractor must contain statutory mandated notice language, or else no mechanic's lien may be enforced against that property.

I've handled a few situations where a subcontractor got stiffed by the general contractor, but when the landowner got notice of my sub's mechanic's lien, they either blew up the general, and the general made payment, or made payment directly to my client and then (I presume) offset the amount of the final disbursement to the general by the value of the payment to my sub (an option available in Illinois and Missouri, and I suspect most other states as well).


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## brokenbudget

ValleyFirewood said:


> I get $$ before I leave.
> 
> I had one customer try the "oh... I'll get the money to you later...., no big deal right?"
> 
> For someone that I knew well I wouldn't have worried, but this was a brand new customer. I backed the truck to the pile of wood and started loading it back up.
> Funny how he came up with the cash pretty quickly. :msp_biggrin:





been there done that many times.
what gets me is when you're on the phone with these people, and clearly agree that they will pay you when you show up and they inspect the wood. and want cash, only cash, they either try the i'll give you a check or can i come by and pay you tomorrow routine.


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## Single_Shooter

Never seen that end of it yet. Hope I never do. But right now most of my customers are lawn services and other tree services.

So far, if the customer or homeowner can't be present when I am doing the work I have had them calling me asking when I can come get my money.

I also own and operate a carpet and upholstery cleaning service for over 10 years now and have never had a customer try to stiff me or even bounce a check. Guess I have been fortunate.

My biggest issue right now isn't getting paid...it's all the extra work with all the little old ladies who are full of "while yer at it's"...and my favorite..."that looks so nice now, since you're already here, can you do this one too?"...and can you trim my shrubs while you are right there by them with your saw?.....and clean out my gutters while you are up there trimming that tree off the roof??....and....and...LOL


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## ShermanC

*While you're here would you do...?*

I am a lot like Single_Shooter. I am prepared to add to the bill when this request surfaces. Often my new customers don't realize how equipped we are when we arrive and the capability we have. We just have to make sure we add to the bill and goth get pity-partied out of what is just deserved.


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## blrobison

I would get at least something in advance just to secure some sort of way to cover expenses. I usually ask for 1/3 of the estimate before working and depending on the amount, 2/3 just after completion for smaller projects or 1/3 just after and 1/3 a month later for larger projects. I've seen that clients really go for the latter payment plan and request larger projects so that they can have that 3 payment plan.

What I'm basically saying is figure out what it would take to break even on your expenses (gas, equipment, supplies) so that you're not in the red very long. Then if the client happens to be late on payments, you won't be stressing out like crazy.


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## Single_Shooter

I have considered going to a 3 tier pay plan on bigger jobs that are multiple days. 1/3 up front....1/3 when the tree is down and 1/3 at the end.

But most of the jobs we undertake we can accomplish in a day so there really is no need for that as far as I can see for 80% of our work.


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## blrobison

Single_Shooter said:


> I have considered going to a 3 tier pay plan on bigger jobs that are multiple days. 1/3 up front....1/3 when the tree is down and 1/3 at the end.
> 
> But most of the jobs we undertake we can accomplish in a day so there really is no need for that as far as I can see for 80% of our work.



In that case then, I would just do a single payment right after the job. If they don't pay then, just set up a tent and camp out


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## h20predator

*only 3 weeks???*

I have run a couple of companies now for the last 15 years. One is my landscaping company that I raised all three of my sons working in with both residential and commercial clients My receivables( $1500-2500.) are often 30-45 days out for the landscaping. My crating and packaging company receivables will make you drink at over the seven figure mark and regularly 90 days out before we get a check. Almost all contracts have some type of terms section on them if yours don't go by Staples and get a generic one that does.
If it was killing you to go three weeks without the money then 1st get a contract in the future and 2nd develop supplemental income streams as well as designated collection times so youcan keep a list of who owes you money and can sit down and call them every day. 

Never do business without a contract, and never ship overseas without "Cash In Fist"


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## ShermanC

*Seek out a person's integrity before granting them your trust to pay you on time.*

This thread has generated some good opinions from a variety of folks around the country. Much of what has been said reminds me of my dad's assignment to me in 1958 at age 18 to collect bad checks written to our restaurant for meals. Man alive it's like trying to pull teeth out of a mean tiger. I got callouses and learned so much so fast about prompt accurate payment. If a book we're to be written about my experience of collection, especially bad debts, it might be a best seller. In college days working at Sears Roebuck credit department one of my classmates had to do collections for non payment. He went to a farm to take back an implement. On the way back to town (Denver) it disconnected or rolled off the flatbed trailer and crashed into a bridge abutment on I-25. Oh boy...what a mess he had to answer for.
Last month I went to estimate a tree job in town. The customer asked me twice to give him an estimate for pruning this silver maple that was topped several years ago. His problem was that suckered limbs had grown everywhere and thus blocked him from riding the mower under the tree. I got to the front door and he yelled "come in"! His TV was blaring loud and he never got off the sofa to shake hands. He starts right in on the conversation saying that Entergy would split the bill with me. I said "no, I get paid in full when I am done and you settle up with Entergy yourself". He said "you don't really want to work that tree, do you? I replied no and left. I'll keep an eye on that one as I pass by there on my way to town. Like my subject title says, find the integrity before trusting the customer. Not all customers are ones you want to serve.


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## treecutterjr

treetopguy2028 said:


> This thread has generated some good opinions from a variety of folks around the country. Much of what has been said reminds me of my dad's assignment to me in 1958 at age 18 to collect bad checks written to our restaurant for meals. Man alive it's like trying to pull teeth out of a mean tiger. I got callouses and learned so much so fast about prompt accurate payment. If a book we're to be written about my experience of collection, especially bad debts, it might be a best seller. In college days working at Sears Roebuck credit department one of my classmates had to do collections for non payment. He went to a farm to take back an implement. On the way back to town (Denver) it disconnected or rolled off the flatbed trailer and crashed into a bridge abutment on I-25. Oh boy...what a mess he had to answer for.
> Last month I went to estimate a tree job in town. The customer asked me twice to give him an estimate for pruning this silver maple that was topped several years ago. His problem was that suckered limbs had grown everywhere and thus blocked him from riding the mower under the tree. I got to the front door and he yelled "come in"! His TV was blaring loud and he never got off the sofa to shake hands. He starts right in on the conversation saying that Entergy would split the bill with me. I said "no, I get paid in full when I am done and you settle up with Entergy yourself". He said "you don't really want to work that tree, do you? I replied no and left. I'll keep an eye on that one as I pass by there on my way to town. Like my subject title says, find the integrity before trusting the customer. Not all customers are ones you want to serve.



you are so right! I did a job last month for a real estate guy, regular customer (through-out the years)! He's got big money: shopping centers,apartment buildings and complexes. I finish up and call him and it's "oh, i'm heading out of the country today. give the bill to my guy & I'll get you paid." 

gave the invoice for $4900.00 & now its been a month & nobody is answering / returning my calls. I guess I'll have to stop by the office later this week.

but it's just part of the job. when he finally pays me he is definitely added to the "DoUBLE THE pRICE" LIST if I ever bid anything for him again.


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## LuckosTreeCare

*protip: landscraping*

don't do business with landscapers. mind you not all companies are bad, there are good ones out there but I've just heard all the stories, like the one you've told. they take a while to pay/not pay at all. why could they just not pas the job off to you and you pay them commission? you make money either way and so do they. you get your name out there and people will know YOU do the stumps, not them. 
just a heads up for next time


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