# Is Anyone Interested In Seeing How I Port A 372XP



## Mastermind (Jul 17, 2013)

These are just the aluminum chips that landed on the bench.......there was a bunch in the floor. 





If anyone is interested I'd be happy to share......


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## elanjoe (Jul 17, 2013)

mastermind said:


> these are just the aluminum chips that landed on the bench.......there was a bunch in the floor.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




share away !!!!!!


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## Stihlman441 (Jul 17, 2013)

Are you serious,thats a lot of material from one saw.:msp_scared:


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## 7hpjim (Jul 17, 2013)

Heck YES!!


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## Mastermind (Jul 17, 2013)

There's 13.2 grams of chips in that pile.......I figured it would weigh more.


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## Magnumitis (Jul 17, 2013)

Only if you send it to me when you are done


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## Mastermind (Jul 17, 2013)

The site has been pretty slow.......I wasn't sure anyone would be interested right now. 

I have a pretty mild approach to this model.


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## LowVolt (Jul 17, 2013)

Lets do this!

opcorn:


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## CR500 (Jul 17, 2013)

You know Randy... I want to venture into this world. I always like your posts, I would love to see how you go about your tinkering.


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## MarkEagleUSA (Jul 17, 2013)

Subscribed... share away!


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## ndlawrence (Jul 17, 2013)

Yes please!


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## pioneerguy600 (Jul 17, 2013)

No!! In before the lock......LOL


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## Mastermind (Jul 17, 2013)

I've got some pics loading to Photobucket. 

I've done these saws so many different ways it ain't funny. Windowed piston, non-windowed ......raise the cylinder walls, don't raise em. Popups, cut squish, different pistons, AM jugs, XPW jugs, XP jugs........I like to think I'm building a stout 372 these day with all the different stuff I've tried but......hell who really knows.


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## Mastermind (Jul 17, 2013)

Here's the scale.......looks like 13.1 grams


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## Cloud IT (Jul 17, 2013)

opcorn:


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## o8f150 (Jul 17, 2013)

well for the record,,, here is the one randy did for me,, he did not build it for racing just for work,, I like,, I like:msp_biggrin::msp_biggrin:

before
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/V6TWANjDOzI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

after

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/10aUUxoPl18" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

hope this helps you randy,, heck free advertising


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## Mastermind (Jul 17, 2013)

The 372 is a saw that I think will run just as well with a popup......but I still cut the squish band.





This is the XPW jug......it's just roughed in right now. I still have quite a lot of slicking up to do. 

On the XPW I cut .060 from the squish band and set the squish clearance at .024. That yields about 190psi at my elevation.


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## Stihlman441 (Jul 17, 2013)

Thats why you are a respected saw builder been there and done that and always trying new things,thats how ya find out what works and what dont.

Did you ever get that bung computer sorted out ?
Just wondering if you ever got the 241C pics,build back.


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## Mastermind (Jul 17, 2013)

I've got a bunch of saws to do Scott.......I appreciate the kind words though bro.


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## Mastermind (Jul 17, 2013)

Stihlman441 said:


> Thats why you are a respected saw builder been there and done that and always trying new things,thats how ya find out what works and what dont.
> 
> Did you ever get that bung computer sorted out ?
> Just wondering if you ever got the 241C pics,build back.



Not yet. Young has it and is in the process of porting it for me.


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## dl5205 (Jul 17, 2013)

As always, I am interested.


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## Mastermind (Jul 17, 2013)

Like I said.......this is just the rough in. I use a fluted milling bit to rough it the cylinder walls. I just take about .080 off here. I've found that raising them too much is going backward in this saw.....at least the way I port them.


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## ELECT6845 (Jul 17, 2013)

I would drive to Tn to watch and learn.


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## Mastermind (Jul 17, 2013)

BTW.....this saw belongs to Mtrees. It's one of the new 375XPs we've been selling.

Since this is a XPW cylinder we have to open the main transfer tunnel up all the way from the base to the upper entrance.


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## ndlawrence (Jul 17, 2013)

ELECT6845 said:


> I would drive to Tn to watch and learn.



X2, any chance on a learners workshop?


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## Mastermind (Jul 17, 2013)

I need to take a few more pics......in all honesty I didn't figure anyone who reply. 

Hold tight.


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## Fire8 (Jul 17, 2013)

Go for it you started it


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## elanjoe (Jul 17, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> I need to take a few more pics......in all honesty I didn't figure anyone who reply.
> 
> Hold tight.



currently 25 users reading !!!


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## Mastermind (Jul 17, 2013)

The 50mm 372 jug has much larger main transfers than the 51.4mm jug. After I open them up down through the tunnel I cut the uppers back toward the exhaust port about .100 angling in toward the exhaust. This maintains the direction the factory designer intended but allows more flow.


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## Mastermind (Jul 17, 2013)

The XPW is one saw I do that loses a ring. The lower ring interferes with widening the secondary transfer so it gets tossed.....


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## old-cat (Jul 17, 2013)

Why would anyone at AS be interested in a monkey's porting work? "It's just a fad", remember!:jester:


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## Mastermind (Jul 17, 2013)

Here's an old pic showing the restriction in the main on the XPW....


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## morewood (Jul 17, 2013)

Ok, I'll throw the flag. You used the word MILD in your description of a Mastermind ported 372xp. I ran yours at Terry's, my buddy ran it enough to call it his. Neither of used the word MILD. On a positive note, his wife told him to send his to you since that seems to be what he talks about.

Shea


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## Joe Kidd (Jul 17, 2013)

Nice, keep 'em coming.


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## Mastermind (Jul 17, 2013)

old-cat said:


> Why would anyone at AS be interested in a monkey's porting work? "It's just a fad", remember!:jester:



I'm sure you're right.......a passing fad.

It ain't quite passed just yet though. 


You guys that port saws throw some stuff out there......I sure don't know everything, and would love the hear opinions, ideas, *mild* criticism.


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## PA Dan (Jul 17, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> These are just the aluminum chips that landed on the bench.......there was a bunch in the floor.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Please do!!!


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## Mastermind (Jul 17, 2013)

morewood said:


> Ok, I'll throw the flag. You used the word MILD in your description of a Mastermind ported 372xp. I ran yours at Terry's, my buddy ran it enough to call it his. Neither of used the word MILD. On a positive note, his wife told him to send his to you since that seems to be what he talks about.
> 
> Shea



Well Shea......when I say that I have a MILD approach to these saws, what I mean is that my timing numbers and the way I do the lowers is very different compared to some others I've seen.


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## o8f150 (Jul 17, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> I'm sure you're right.......a passing fad.
> 
> It ain't quite passed just yet though.
> 
> ...



criticism???? ok,, your short,,fat,,ugly,, emu legged inbred sheep and poodle humping needle ####ed homo midget,,,, hows that for criticism,,


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## old-cat (Jul 17, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> You guys that port saws throw some stuff out there......I sure don't know everything, and would love the hear opinions, ideas, *mild* criticism.



Tell chadihman to build you a dyno.


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## Mastermind (Jul 17, 2013)

Do I mention that I've tried hogging the transfers out before? 





This jug is from a saw that hung a ring......:msp_unsure:


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## o8f150 (Jul 17, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Do I mention that I've tried hogging the transfers out before?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



ouch


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## Mastermind (Jul 17, 2013)

Now the exhaust port is another place that I spend some serious time on the 372. Again....I've tried a bunch of different stuff.......but the exhaust height at 100 - 99 degrees from TDC seems to work reall well on the 372 when it's main propose is to pull a work chain.

There still has to be a bevel and some polish here. I use a 1/4" diameter diamond stone in my RT angle to do the bevel.....and varying grades of Scotchbrite for the polish on the port edges.


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## Joe Kidd (Jul 17, 2013)

o8f150 said:


> ouch



Whats up with the goo in the right-hand jug? Some of that technoplate whatever?


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## bower4311 (Jul 17, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Not yet.



Send me your computer. I'll port it for free.


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## bower4311 (Jul 17, 2013)

o8f150 said:


> well for the record,,, here is the one randy did for me,, he did not build it for racing just for work,, I like,, I like:msp_biggrin::msp_biggrin:
> 
> before
> <iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/V6TWANjDOzI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
> ...



These videos are awesome played at the same time haha. Good stuff.


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## Mastermind (Jul 17, 2013)

Sorta tough to see but there's a step in the floor of this outlet. Terry Landrum first showed me this in an XPW he had......that saw was a bad dude. 





I've done it with and without this step.......but I think it makes enough difference to be worth the time.....


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## procarbine2k1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> I sure don't know everything, and would love the hear opinions, ideas, *mild* criticism.



 You are humble, admit that there is more to learn, and have such a level headed approach to your builds and the way that you present them on AS- I think that is a good part of the reason you are well respected here IMO. I don't ever remember you carrying a "better than thou attitude", or demeaning anyone looking to learn. I feel like I have learned quite a bit from you, just from reading and watching your work intently in these build threads. I think many of us have. I'm not butt kissin' here, but I think there are more than a couple reasons guys here are keeping you working around the clock, and your attitude is probably #1.


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## Mastermind (Jul 17, 2013)

The transfers I think are where you can either build a saw that has that WOW factor or one that is just OK.......on the 51.4 mm XPW jug I set them at 122 degrees from TDC for a BD time of 22 degrees.


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## o8f150 (Jul 17, 2013)

o8f150 said:


> well for the record,,, here is the one randy did for me,, he did not build it for racing just for work,, I like,, I like:msp_biggrin::msp_biggrin:
> 
> before
> <iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/V6TWANjDOzI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
> ...



I forgot to mention,, that is the same big maple log,, there is a big difference in cut speed,,, I get a stiffy everytime I run it


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## samdweezel05 (Jul 17, 2013)

Hay Randy, can you do some port work on an aftermarket BB kit on a 660?


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## o8f150 (Jul 17, 2013)

bower4311 said:


> These videos are awesome played at the same time haha. Good stuff.



if you liked that,, try this other thread I started,, sounds like a chevy engine with no muffler,,,,,, ooopppssss sorry randy,, I think I hijacked your thread

http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/240212.htm


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## Mastermind (Jul 17, 2013)

On the intake I let the lowering of the cylinder determine the duration. The way I cut the squish and lower the jug I end up at 80 - 82 degrees. I don't do a lot of widening on the intake on this model because I would rather not add any more time/area to the port.


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## Mastermind (Jul 17, 2013)

samdweezel05 said:


> Hay Randy, can you do some port work on an aftermarket BB kit on a 660?



I've yet to find a BB 660 jug that I like Sam. 

I gotta sign off for a bit........be back later.


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## Dan_in_WI (Jul 17, 2013)

41 users on this thread.

opcorn:


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## bryanr2 (Jul 17, 2013)

30 users........ finally something worth reading.


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## boxygen (Jul 17, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> I've yet to find a BB 660 jug that I like Sam.
> 
> I gotta sign off for a bit........be back later.



This is something I've been wondering so I'll jump on this hijack. Is porting and aftermarket jug generally not a good idea? I seem to remember reading that somewhere but don't remember where. Is it a waste of time? By the way, repped for a good thread and something worth reading lately.


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## shoe601 (Jul 17, 2013)

Randy I don't know if this is how you did the 375 I bought from you but it sure cuts. It's been so hot I've only got a couple tanks through it but its one hell of a strong saw. Thank You.


Bryan


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## Jimmy in NC (Jul 17, 2013)

boxygen said:


> This is something I've been wondering so I'll jump on this hijack. Is porting and aftermarket jug generally not a good idea? I seem to remember reading that somewhere but don't remember where. Is it a waste of time? By the way, repped for a good thread and something worth reading lately.



Depends on the kit. I've got a ported Meteor kit on my 372 done by Randy and its a strong work saw. 24" with an 8 pin all day in hardwood. 

Back on topic to see how he chews on cylinders.....




Jimmy


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## bryanr2 (Jul 17, 2013)

procarbine2k1 said:


> You are humble, admit that there is more to learn, and have such a level headed approach to your builds and the way that you present them on AS- I think that is a good part of the reason you are well respected here IMO. I don't ever remember you carrying a "better than thou attitude", or demeaning anyone looking to learn. I feel like I have learned quite a bit from you, just from reading and watching your work intently in these build threads. I think many of us have. I'm not butt kissin' here, but I think there are more than a couple reasons guys here are keeping you working around the clock, and your attitude is probably #1.



that about sums it up. Plus he has the coolest username/ sticker.:msp_wink:


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## boxygen (Jul 17, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> There's 13.2 grams of chips in that pile.......I figured it would weigh more.



Maybe you should be pricing your port work by the pound. Just sayin.


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## dozerdan (Jul 17, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Like I said.......this is just the rough in. I use a fluted milling bit to rough it the cylinder walls. I just take about .080 off here. I've found that raising them too much is going backward in this saw.....at least the way I port them.



I have used the fluted end mills for years in my die grinder. Once you get used to them you have very little clean up work to do. How many time did you get the end mill flopping around in the ports until you got used to it? LOL 

Later
Dan


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## samdweezel05 (Jul 17, 2013)

dozerdan said:


> I have used the fluted end mills for years in my die grinder. Once you get used to them you have very little clean up work to do. How many time did you get the end mill flopping around in the ports until you got used to it? LOL
> 
> Later
> Dan



Still happens to me when I try to use the side facing away from the angle die grinder. Left and right sides are controllable, lol.


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## Officer's Match (Jul 17, 2013)

Hmm, what's a 372? :msp_wink:


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## chrisoppie (Jul 17, 2013)

:msp_thumbsup:opcorn:opcorn:


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## RiverRat2 (Jul 17, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Sorta tough to see but there's a step in the floor of this outlet. Terry Landrum first showed me this in an XPW he had......that saw was a bad dude.
> 
> 
> I've done it with and without this step.......but I think it makes enough difference to be worth the time.....



TLandrum is a good dood!!!! And Stuff,,, Gh!!! And BTW,,, that Gun totin Monkey Is A-OK His own self!!! Just sayin!!!


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## thomas1 (Jul 17, 2013)

procarbine2k1 said:


> You are humble, admit that there is more to learn, and have such a level headed approach to your builds and the way that you present them on AS- I think that is a good part of the reason you are well respected here IMO. I don't ever remember you carrying a "better than thou attitude", or demeaning anyone looking to learn. I feel like I have learned quite a bit from you, just from reading and watching your work intently in these build threads. I think many of us have. I'm not butt kissin' here, but I think there are more than a couple reasons guys here are keeping you working around the clock, and your attitude is probably #1.



You can learn a lot from Randy's threads. 

Some of it about saw building, more of it about life.


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## boxygen (Jul 17, 2013)

Officer's Match said:


> Hmm, what's a 372? :msp_wink:



I believe its design is based on a poulan pro. That's what I read on the interwebnets.


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## wigglesworth (Jul 17, 2013)

13 grams huh?

Been a loooong time since I've seen anything measured out in grams...


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## machinisttx (Jul 17, 2013)

This thread doesn't help reduce my want of a 372....


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## Jacob J. (Jul 17, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Do I mention that I've tried hogging the transfers out before?



Hogging out the transfers on the XPW jugs makes them lose a lot of torque. I have two jugs here from a "bike tuner" that ran like crap. They don't build any velocity at 5k RPM or above because the transfers are big enough to put your thumb in. 

I never do much work on the lower-mid 71cc transfers. The uppers need some work but that's about it. I'm running a 71cc that's the best saw I've ever had at 8,000' elevation and it has a mild port work-over and a Wiseco thin-ring piston.


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## burnses (Jul 17, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> These are just the aluminum chips that landed on the bench.......there was a bunch in the floor.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



sure...why not!

sap can


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## andydodgegeek (Jul 17, 2013)

Is this pretty much the same way you did my 375? I like it, I run a 7 pin and a 28" bar on it and it don't care. Nice thread Randy.


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## mt.stalker (Jul 17, 2013)

That's a Top Notch Kraut saw killer right there Clarkie :chainsawguy:
Really keen port work , impecable. It's obvious the 100's of hrs. you've spent grinding .


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## Mastermind (Jul 17, 2013)

boxygen said:


> This is something I've been wondering so I'll jump on this hijack. Is porting and aftermarket jug generally not a good idea? I seem to remember reading that somewhere but don't remember where. Is it a waste of time? By the way, repped for a good thread and something worth reading lately.



Some AM jugs are great.....some are crap. It's fun weeding through em though. 

I'll add some more to this tomorrow. We'll talk about carbs, mufflers, and stuff.


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## luckydad (Jul 17, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Some AM jugs are great.....some are crap. It's fun weeding through em though.
> 
> I'll add some more to this tomorrow. We'll talk about carbs, mufflers, and stuff.



Looks good there Mr. Randy !!


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## blsnelling (Jul 17, 2013)

Looks great Randy. So which is your personal favorite? 50mm or 51.4mm?


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## Mastermind (Jul 17, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Looks great Randy. So which is your personal favorite? 50mm or 51.4mm?



The 50mm is less work.....


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## blsnelling (Jul 17, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> The 50mm is less work.....



Once done though...?


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## Mastermind (Jul 17, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Once done though...?



I never really took the time to see which is faster......they both make great runners.


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## blsnelling (Jul 17, 2013)

I've always preferred the 50mm, for the single ring and how well they run. Just for kicks though, I bought a 51.4mm topend for my 2171. It's still stock though.


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## Gologit (Jul 18, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> I've always preferred the 50mm, for the single ring and how well they run. Just for kicks though, I bought a 51.4mm topend for my 2171. It's still stock though.



Good.


Now, back on topic...Randy, how about some more info on your build.


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## wigglesworth (Jul 18, 2013)

I prefer 48mm ones.


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## Mastermind (Jul 18, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Good.
> 
> 
> Now, back on topic...Randy, how about some more info on your build.



I'm going to bed big guy. :msp_wink:



wigglesworth said:


> I prefer 48mm ones.



I know.....but you're much better at building saws than I am. 

Slow as hell though. :msp_biggrin:


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## jockeydeuce (Jul 18, 2013)

Great thread as usual, Randy!...and stuff!


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## jockeydeuce (Jul 18, 2013)

wigglesworth said:


> I prefer 48mm ones.



That's a different Swede though!:msp_wink:


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## Officer's Match (Jul 18, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Good.
> 
> 
> Now, back on topic...Randy, how about some more info on your build.



Off to bed myself.


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## duramax99 (Jul 18, 2013)

Have you tried the step in the exhaust floor on a 50mm?


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## Jacob J. (Jul 18, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Good.
> 
> 
> Now, back on topic...Randy, how about some more info on your build.



Actually Randy was actively looking for input from others, so I don't see how that was off-topic.


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## Rudolf73 (Jul 18, 2013)

Sweet, some interesting chainsaw stuff! Please continue opcorn:


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## MCW (Jul 18, 2013)

Mastermind said:


>



You need to sharpen your grinder bits as they're not throwing big chips...



Mastermind said:


> I've yet to find a BB 660 jug that I like Sam.



Have you had the chance to talk to the other Randy about the 660BB kits from our little Chinese mate? They are very very nice kits. They are from the same manufacturer as that 372XP BB kit I sent you a while back. If interested let me know or talk to Weedbeater Randy.


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## chadihman (Jul 18, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> These are just the aluminum chips that landed on the bench.......there was a bunch in the floor.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Does a bear sh#t in the woods? Come on Randy You know the answer. Eight pages worth in less than 24 hrs. You share away!!!


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## tbone75 (Jul 18, 2013)

Silly question Monkeybutt ! :hmm3grin2orange:


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## chadihman (Jul 18, 2013)

o8f150 said:


> I forgot to mention,, that is the same big maple log,, there is a big difference in cut speed,,, I get a stiffy everytime I run it



Better get safety chaps for that. A cut to the legs would be horrible. A cut to the third leg would be unbearable.


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## Mastermind (Jul 18, 2013)

duramax99 said:


> Have you tried the step in the exhaust floor on a 50mm?



I have......and I use it on all the 372s I build these days. I also use it in 346s. Not all jugs will have enough meat there though. 

Here's some pics of the finished jug.

I use a 180 grit diamond egg shaped burr to get this finish. It's not real rough, yet I like to think it promotes atomization. I use this finish in the lowers and intake, but use a smoother grit in the uppers.


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## bcaarms (Jul 18, 2013)

Is this what happened to the 365 XT. Or is the 71 cc different than the 372 XP?


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## Mastermind (Jul 18, 2013)

In this shot you can see the exhaust step pretty well. 





The exhaust is finished with oiled 180 grit emery cloth, then fine ScotchBrite.


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## sunfish (Jul 18, 2013)

Very Nice Work Randy!

How bout a how you do a 346xp thread sometime soon? Please.


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## SawTroll (Jul 18, 2013)

Jacob J. said:


> Hogging out the transfers on the XPW jugs makes them lose a lot of torque. I have two jugs here from a "bike tuner" that ran like crap. They don't build any velocity at 5k RPM or above because the transfers are big enough to put your thumb in.
> 
> I never do much work on the lower-mid 71cc transfers. The uppers need some work but that's about it. I'm running a 71cc that's the best saw I've ever had at 8,000' elevation and it has a mild port work-over and a Wiseco thin-ring piston.



I assume that a larger carb will change that "picture" a little? :confused2:


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## Mastermind (Jul 18, 2013)

Nothing special here....


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## Mastermind (Jul 18, 2013)

bcaarms said:


> Is this what happened to the 365 XT. Or is the 71 cc different than the 372 XP?



It's a totally different cylinder and piston......but a lot of this still applies.



sunfish said:


> Very Nice Work Randy!
> 
> How bout a how you do a 346xp thread sometime soon? Please.



I just did one.....

http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/230531.htm



SawTroll said:


> I assume that a larger carb will change that "picture" a little? :confused2:



It sure would.


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## Mastermind (Jul 18, 2013)

Hopefully you can see the bevel/radius I put on the port edges in this shot.





I think the life of the rings depend a lot on how slick these edges are. The last step is fine ScotchBrite around a bore hone to really get this area smooth.


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## Mastermind (Jul 18, 2013)

I better get to work........but if anyone cares we can talk about different carbs for the 372 later.


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## sjames (Jul 18, 2013)

are there any similarities between the 372xp and a 268xp? I have 2 and would like to muscle 1 of them up.


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## sunfish (Jul 18, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> I just did one.....
> 
> http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/230531.htm



Thanks man!!!


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## duramax99 (Jul 18, 2013)

As far as carbs ive used stock and 390 carbs they defiantly seem to run better with the 390 conversion.


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## bryanr2 (Jul 18, 2013)

I'm just thinking out loud hereotstir:....... but I think _"EVERYONE"_:msp_biggrin:...... especially "someone":msp_wink: would be interested in a "How Mastermind does big muscle saws". Could possibly expose the tricks on a rebuild and port of a 2100cd?:jester:


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## blsnelling (Jul 18, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Good.
> 
> 
> Now, back on topic...Randy, how about some more info on your build.



Randy asked for input. I was simply having a conversation about the saw in question.


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## Mastermind (Jul 18, 2013)

bryanr2 said:


> I'm just thinking out loud hereotstir:....... but I think _"EVERYONE"_:msp_biggrin:...... especially "someone":msp_wink: would be interested in a "How Mastermind does big muscle saws". Could possibly expose the tricks on a rebuild and port of a 2100cd?:jester:



I'll be doing a thread on your saw Steven. It's no that often anymore that we get a nice example of the 2100. 



blsnelling said:


> Randy asked for input. I was simply having a conversation about the saw in question.



I think you and I are no longer allowed to post in each others threads. I really don't understand that.....but also don't want to get the boot as a site sponsor. I think Jens email was the site owner's last effort at curbing the issue of member harassment as it was being reported to them.


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## mtrees (Jul 18, 2013)

Please!! I for one don't wish to lose either of you!!


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## boxygen (Jul 18, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> Randy asked for input. I was simply having a conversation about the saw in question.



 Seemed like a pretty harmless comment??? I guess the general public is missing a piece of the puzzle here:confused2::msp_confused:


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## treeslayer2003 (Jul 18, 2013)

boxygen said:


> Seemed like a pretty harmless comment??? I guess the general public is missing a piece of the puzzle here:confused2::msp_confused:



I think prolly so, but like mtrees said we don't want to lose either of them. so we should jus let it go.


----------



## pops21 (Jul 18, 2013)

Hmmmmmm????


----------



## pops21 (Jul 18, 2013)

Randy I remember when you first posted about the step in the exhaust but I thought the conclusion was it was not worth the effort. What difference do you see between the step and no step saws? Also if there is a difference whats the theory behind it. For me I see it as causing unwanted turbulance. Causing the gases to swirl comming out.


----------



## Officer's Match (Jul 18, 2013)

mtrees said:


> Please!! I for one don't wish to lose either of you!!



Yeah, not enjoying some of this, um, stuff.


----------



## moody (Jul 18, 2013)

pops21 said:


> Randy I remember when you first posted about the step in the exhaust but I thought the conclusion was it was not worth the effort. What difference do you see between the step and no step saws? Also if there is a difference whats the theory behind it. For me I see it as causing unwanted turbulance. Causing the gases to swirl comming out.



It's for gas evacuation I know that much. But I like your question.


----------



## mt.stalker (Jul 18, 2013)

moody said:


> It's for gas evacuation I know that much. But I like your question.


The step allows the exhaust gases to expand quicker IMO .
The Sweed's have been using this design for at least 33 yrs , as evidenced by my 1980 Jonnyred .


----------



## barneyrb (Jul 18, 2013)

moody said:


> It's for gas evacuation I know that much. But I like your question.





Anti reversion..........


----------



## mtrees (Jul 18, 2013)

Randy is quiet, must be bolting her together.


----------



## Mastermind (Jul 18, 2013)

mtrees said:


> Randy is quiet, must be bolting her together.



Nope......porting a 359. I'm still waiting on a few pieces.


----------



## Jacob J. (Jul 18, 2013)

moody said:


> It's for gas evacuation I know that much. But I like your question.



Ace Morgan, who was a legendary builder from this area, had been using the stepped exhaust since the mid 80's. He also used a "rafter port" which is a thin line cut into the bottom of the exhaust port to help with scavenging. His saws ran really well.


----------



## nmurph (Jul 18, 2013)

I my mind that ramp helps speed the evacuation of the exhaust by reducing the turbulence as the piston begins to open and the charge spills out and it also helps to direct the backpressure into the cylinder as the piston closes.


----------



## jerrycmorrow (Jul 18, 2013)

i'm in. thanks for the thread. i do my porting vicariously. at least for now.


----------



## thomas1 (Jul 18, 2013)

Jacob J. said:


> Ace Morgan, who was a legendary builder from this area, had been using the stepped exhaust since the mid 80's. He also used a "rafter port" which is a thin line cut into the bottom of the exhaust port to help with scavenging. His saws ran really well.



Unpossible, saw porting did not exist before the internets.


----------



## Stihlofadeal64 (Jul 18, 2013)

ELECT6845 said:


> I would drive to Tn to watch and learn.





Quite a few of us would, but it would probably be unnerving for the masters mind...


----------



## sjames (Jul 18, 2013)

Stihlofadeal64 said:


> Quite a few of us would, but it would probably be unnerving for the masters mind...



How great would an instructional video be


----------



## Trx250r180 (Jul 18, 2013)

looks ok ..........for a Husky and all :msp_wink:


----------



## wyk (Jul 18, 2013)

sjames said:


> How great would an instructional video be



Not to step on my good buddy Randall, but I'll just leave this here:

1 The chainsaw guy porting - YouTube


----------



## moody (Jul 18, 2013)

reindeer said:


> Not to step on my good buddy Randall, but I'll just leave this here:
> 
> 1 The chainsaw guy porting - YouTube



If you listen to him he says 49 mm of material is removed from the cylinder. I wonder how he felt after posting that


----------



## Blazin (Jul 18, 2013)

moody said:


> If you listen to him he says 49 mm of material is removed from the cylinder. I wonder how he felt after posting that



Not to mention it looked like he used a chainsaw for a Grinder


----------



## Nitroman (Jul 18, 2013)

bryanr2 said:


> I'm just thinking out loud hereotstir:....... but I think _"EVERYONE"_:msp_biggrin:...... especially "someone":msp_wink: would be interested in a "How Mastermind does big muscle saws". Could possibly expose the tricks on a rebuild and port of a 2100cd?:jester:



I would second that emotion. Say, another thread on building a monster 3120? Just a thought. But gotta have good threads like this one too.:msp_w00t:


----------



## Jacob J. (Jul 18, 2013)

Nitroman said:


> I would second that emotion. Say, another thread on building a monster 3120? Just a thought. But gotta have good threads like this one too.:msp_w00t:



The 3120 is an under appreciated saw, because they're pretty heavy. I've had good luck with them though.


----------



## madmarksolomon (Jul 18, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Here's the scale.......looks like 13.1 grams



that just looks illegal


----------



## Blazin (Jul 18, 2013)

What brand and color scotch brites are you using Randall?


----------



## RiverRat2 (Jul 18, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> In this shot you can see the exhaust step pretty well.
> 
> 
> The exhaust is finished with oiled 180 grit emery cloth, then fine ScotchBrite.



Randy My old eyes just cant tell!!! Does the step/offset go all the way around the port or is it just on the bottom???


----------



## tlandrum (Jul 18, 2013)

I just put a step in the bottom exhaust.


----------



## Mastermind (Jul 18, 2013)

madmarksolomon said:


> that just looks illegal



Leftovers from my youth...... :msp_unsure:



Blazin said:


> What brand and color scotch brites are you using Randall?



ScotchBrite brand in tan, red, and gray.



tlandrum said:


> I just put a step in the bottom exhaust.



Yeppers......just the bottom.


----------



## blsnelling (Jul 18, 2013)

tlandrum said:


> I just put a step in the bottom exhaust.





Mastermind said:


> Yeppers......just the bottom.



Hey, y'all better quit talkin'!:jester:


----------



## Blazin (Jul 18, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> ScotchBrite brand in tan, red, and gray.



Try the Mirka pads, they blow 3M away for getting in tight spaces....I know this for a fact. And they're only $20 a box. :msp_wink:


----------



## Joe Kidd (Jul 18, 2013)

Jacob J. said:


> Actually Randy was actively looking for input from others, so I don't see how that was off-topic.



I took G's comment in jest. Maybe I'm misinterpreting.


----------



## Gologit (Jul 18, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> I think you and I are no longer allowed to post in each others threads. I really don't understand that.....but also don't want to get the boot as a site sponsor. I think Jens email was the site owner's last effort at curbing the issue of member harassment as it was being reported to them.



It's not so much that you two don't get along. You and Brad have shown many times that you're more than capable of making an effort to keep things civil. You're both capable of disagreeing without resorting to insults and we appreciate that.


What we don't want, and what we won't allow, are the supporters and fans taking sides and taking potshots. It detracts from the intent of the thread and generally makes a mess of what was originally a good idea. It would be nice to have a build thread that didn't turn into a brawl.

Mrs.Arboristsite made it clear what the rules would be. They're not hard to follow. Any posts that don't directly address the thread and any posts that are deemed to be harassing or defamatory will be deleted and a warning or infraction issued.
We'd rather not have to do any of that. It's up to you guys.


----------



## mtrees (Jul 18, 2013)

I would like for it to continue (thread) obviously. It's my saw and I have been waiting on it.


----------



## Mastermind (Jul 18, 2013)

mtrees said:


> I would like for it to continue (thread) obviously. It's my saw and I have been waiting on it.



And it will continue......

The parts should be here Friday to finish it up. We will then post a video of it in action. 

About the carbs for these saws.......I've tried several different carbs on the 372. Many guys may be surprised to know that my favorite carb on these is the X-torq carb. By using the XP intake and clocking it to keep the XT carb level it works well. You need the XP filter elbow, and must gut the divider.....


----------



## TK (Jul 18, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> These are just the aluminum chips that landed on the bench.......there was a bunch in the floor.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You port 372's?


----------



## Mastermind (Jul 18, 2013)

TK said:


> You port 372's?



Well I take the top off, stick my little spinny thingy in there and whirl it around and stuff. 

Why? Wanna fight about it?


----------



## TK (Jul 18, 2013)

Hey man, calm down......


----------



## Mastermind (Jul 18, 2013)

TK said:


> Hey man, calm down......



I'm ok.......just nervous from all the grinding.


----------



## TK (Jul 18, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> I'm ok.......just nervous from all the grinding.



Some nerve, a guy who just went on 3 vacations talking about all this work at home.... 



I think I may regret that statement.....


----------



## Mastermind (Jul 18, 2013)

TK said:


> Some nerve, a guy who just went on 3 vacations talking about all this work at home....
> 
> 
> 
> I think I may regret that statement.....



I'm getting old Tom.......I better go on all the vacations I can before my hip breaks or something.


----------



## MarkEagleUSA (Jul 18, 2013)

Just out of curiosity, how long does it take to do a complete porting? Does it vary greatly between models/brands?


----------



## TK (Jul 18, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> I'm getting old Tom.......I better go on all the vacations I can before my hip breaks or something.



Your hip will only break if you do something silly. Just don't do anything silly LOL. 

I may have a 372 to send you if my FIL ever gives it back.


----------



## Mastermind (Jul 18, 2013)

MarkEagleUSA said:


> Just out of curiosity, how long does it take to do a complete porting? Does it vary greatly between models/brands?



5 - 7 hours is normal. There are a few saws that I can do in 4.


----------



## Mastermind (Jul 18, 2013)

TK said:


> Your hip will only break if you do something silly. Just don't do anything silly LOL.
> 
> I may have a 372 to send you if my FIL ever gives it back.



Copy that........nothing too silly. 

That reminds me of a tale. 

Grandpa was 82 years old.......he married a 20 year old woman. I asked him if it was dangerous for him to have sex with such a young woman. He looked me straight in the eye and said "son, if she lives she lives, if she don't she don't." :msp_w00t:

Send one anytime Tom......remember trades are welcome.


----------



## moody (Jul 18, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> 5 - 7 hours is normal. There are a few saws that I can do in 4.



It's nice to see someone finally ask that question. It's definitely not a 2 hour and done deal it takes me a day 8-10 hours (I haven't done the volume you have). Plus I like to take a little extra time to take notes. Polishing is where I lose time at because I'm anal.


----------



## TK (Jul 18, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Copy that........nothing too silly.
> 
> That reminds me of a tale.
> 
> ...



LOL

I have a pretty good collection of greasy work pants and dirty dishes. Was that along the lines of trading you were thinking? If not, I have lots of pennies I can ship you.


----------



## TK (Jul 18, 2013)

moody said:


> It's nice to see someone finally ask that question. It's definitely not a 2 hour and done deal it takes me a day 8-10 hours (I haven't done the volume you have). Plus I like to take a little extra time to take notes. Polishing is where I lose time at because I'm anal.



Hell it took me an hour and a half to poke a hole in a muffler and make sure it didn't have any metal flakes left inside. Can't imagine trying to go through the whole porting process in my shoes LOL  Definitely respect the guys that can get it done and get it done right!


----------



## jockeydeuce (Jul 18, 2013)

moody said:


> It's nice to see someone finally ask that question. It's definitely not a 2 hour and done deal it takes me a day 8-10 hours (I haven't done the volume you have). Plus I like to take a little extra time to take notes. Polishing is where I lose time at because I'm anal.



It isn't an AS thread until you've got a monkey, pie and the word anal!!:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## TK (Jul 18, 2013)

jockeydeuce said:


> It isn't an AS thread until you've got a monkey, pie and the word anal!!:hmm3grin2orange:



I wasn't gonna bring up the anal thing, touchy subject these days


----------



## RiverRat2 (Jul 18, 2013)

tlandrum said:


> I just put a step in the bottom exhaust.



Thanks Terry, I suppose port matching the muffler is advised. I think I will try it on my 460 I ported for the build off at your place a couple of years back,,, cant hurt, it ran pretty good actually finishing 3rd and stuff,,,


----------



## Naked Arborist (Jul 19, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> I've got some pics loading to Photobucket.
> 
> I've done these saws so many different ways it ain't funny. Windowed piston, non-windowed ......raise the cylinder walls, don't raise em. Popups, cut squish, different pistons, AM jugs, XPW jugs, XP jugs........I like to think I'm building a stout 372 these day with all the different stuff I've tried but......hell who really knows.



Just started reading this thread. Send your best one to Chad. Couldn't hurt.


----------



## Naked Arborist (Jul 19, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> The transfers I think are where you can either build a saw that has that WOW factor or one that ...



Couldn't agree more. Do wish I could see the epics. On a Kindle tonight.


----------



## wyk (Jul 19, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Well I take the top off, stick my little spinny thingy in there and whirl it around and stuff.
> 
> Why? Wanna fight about it?



That sounds like a first date to me.


----------



## MarkEagleUSA (Jul 19, 2013)

reindeer said:


> That sounds like a first date to me.


Or a last! :msp_rolleyes:


----------



## wyk (Jul 19, 2013)

MarkEagleUSA said:


> Or a last! :msp_rolleyes:



There's a difference?


----------



## Dennis Cahoon (Jul 19, 2013)

Jacob J. said:


> Ace Morgan, who was a legendary builder from this area, had been using the stepped exhaust since the mid 80's. He also used a "rafter port" which is a thin line cut into the bottom of the exhaust port to help with scavenging. His saws ran really well.



Ace's step cut exhaust was different than how this one is done. His step was cut in the front on the lower exhaust port and cut at a square 90 degree angle. Not smoothed in. IMO it was more for the exhaust coming back than going out. 

BTW, MM, speed up that grinder. Times money!.......Hahahahahaha!


----------



## LegDeLimber (Jul 20, 2013)

Quote: jerrycmorrow - " i'm in. thanks for the thread. i do my porting vicariously. at least for now." 
-
ditto my broke ass self on that.
+ + +

Quote Originally Posted by sjames View Post
How great would an instructional video be 

Quote: reindeer - Not to step on my good buddy Randall, but I'll just leave this here:

1 The chainsaw guy porting - YouTube
-
Good grief, not knocking the port work,
But couldn't that guy have just put up one video in stead of all those fragments !?!?

I bailed after about the 6th one...
+ + +

Quote Originally Posted by Mastermind View Post
ScotchBrite brand in tan, red, and gray.

Quote: Blazin - Try the Mirka pads, they blow 3M away for getting in tight spaces....I know this for a fact. And they're only $20 a box. 
-
i'd like to hear an off the cuff estimate of a group cost of those burrs in the red case.
I'll bet it would make a fellow wince.
..and give ya a better perspective on the cost of porting.
oh and getting in the edges of that tougher cylinder plating we want,
sorta shortens their useful lifespan.
+ + +

Quote Originally Posted by Mastermind View Post
"These are just the aluminum chips that landed on the bench.......there was a bunch in the floor.

If anyone is interested I'd be happy to share...... "
-
well Heck! thought maybe he was gonna rub the back of a few stickers in the shavings and mail 'em out.
+ + +

Quote Originally Posted by MarkEagleUSA View Post
"Just out of curiosity, how long does it take to do a complete porting? Does it vary greatly between models/brands? "

Quote: Mastermind -" 5 - 7 hours is normal. There are a few saws that I can do in 4."
-
mercy! if I slot a couple of screws and work over the muffler on a weedbater 
my tendons/hands are burnnig and eratic for the day now.

{and a bit more on the effort}

Originally Posted by Mastermind 
5 - 7 hours is normal. There are a few saws that I can do in 4.

Quote: moody - It's nice to see someone finally ask that question. It's definitely not a 2 hour and done deal it takes me a day 8-10 hours (I haven't done the volume you have). Plus I like to take a little extra time to take notes. Polishing is where I lose time at because I'm anal. 
-
Dude That vid of yours a few days back, justifies your attention to the details (in my eyes at least)
http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/240099.htm
+ + +

Quote: Dennis Cahoon - " Ace's step cut exhaust was different than how this one is done. His step was cut in the front on the lower exhaust port and cut at a square 90 degree angle. Not smoothed in. IMO it was more for the exhaust coming back than going out. "
-
I'd be curious to see an impression of the port, amde from silly putty or modeling clay or whatever's handy
and then a side view of the lump to give us weak eyed folks a easy view.

and I still wish someome had the luxury of the time and various cylinders
to do some molds/patterns of the transfers so we can see the difference 
between OEM and aftermarket.
just wondering what sort of goop would work for doing it, that's not ridiculously expensive....

- 
Dreamin' here for a moment....( sometimes i hate being on a such low budget life)
I think it'd be a great adventure to take a about 10~12 saws and a couple of cameras
to go on few months "tour" of the country, making stops at some various builders
and "old school" type saw shops.

I think it'd be good to have something that we'd look back on in 20 years
the way it feels to watch something like "on any Sunday" Sunday - YouTube
and Throw in some Fred Dibnah vids also to give yall a bit more of the urge
not a saw builder, He was a steeplejack and a steam man 
But you'll love his approach to life.
fred dibnah - Tìm với Google
and if you've never seen any of Fred's vids, you are in for a fine surprise.

A saw vid would have a different content and edit of course
But I still would think you'd get that good nostalgic feel from it 
once enough time had passed.

Yeah i know, I think a little too much sometimes.


----------



## thomas1 (Jul 20, 2013)

LegDeLimber said:


> Yeah i know, I think a little too much sometimes.



In the bottom right corner of every post is the multi-quote button, just to the right of the regular quote button. Click that on each post you want to quote, in the order you want to address them and then click the regular quote button on the last one. That will put all the quotes, in the regular format, in your post.


----------



## mtrees (Jul 21, 2013)

Bump for video!!


----------



## Mastermind (Jul 21, 2013)

mtrees said:


> Bump for video!!



I've had some stuff to go sideways......a very sick kid in the family involving a lot of driving to Nashville for me. It's in the box and ready to ship......reckon you could post that video?


----------



## mtrees (Jul 21, 2013)

Just busting ya. I know it's sad but your videos are my weekends!!


----------



## Mastermind (Jul 21, 2013)

mtrees said:


> Just busting ya. I know it's sad but your videos are my weekends!!



I wanted to post a video.....but I wanted it in the box worse.


----------



## MarkEagleUSA (Jul 21, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> It's in the box and ready to ship...


Just waitin' on the postman, eh? :msp_wink:


----------



## Mastermind (Jul 21, 2013)

MarkEagleUSA said:


> Just waitin' on the postman, eh? :msp_wink:



Hell no. FedEx picks up Tuesday.


----------



## rburg (Jul 21, 2013)

I hope the sick kid gets well quickly.


----------



## MarkEagleUSA (Jul 21, 2013)

rburg said:


> I hope the sick kid gets well quickly.


What he said!


----------



## Mastermind (Jul 21, 2013)

rburg said:


> I hope the sick kid gets well quickly.



He has a tumor eating the bone around his eye tooth. His mom and dad are both losers. He's lived with his Grandma (my wife's sister) most of his life. Tough little guy......just wanted to know how many teeth he would lose.


----------



## rburg (Jul 21, 2013)

He will be in our thoughts and prayers.


----------



## Mastermind (Jul 21, 2013)

rburg said:


> He will be in our thoughts and prayers.



He's got several surgeries ahead.....we are just praying that it's not cancer.


----------



## bryanr2 (Jul 21, 2013)

mtrees said:


> Just busting ya. I know it's sad but your videos are my weekends!!



How can you wait til the weekend? I check every day for videos.


----------



## tbone75 (Jul 21, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> He's got several surgeries ahead.....we are just praying that it's not cancer.



Wish him the best for us ! Were all rooting for him !!


----------



## Ymountainman (Jul 21, 2013)

*MY family will pray for him!*

We will put him on our prayer list!


----------



## bryanr2 (Jul 21, 2013)

Well now I feel terrible. I posted about videos having not read the recent post on the young man Randy. If you dont mind sharing, what is his first name so my family can include them in our family prayers? Sometimes I get discouraged with my past decisions and lifestyle and worry my personal prayers dont carry much past the ceiling. I'm trusting that they make it a little further when I pray over Kari and the kids.


----------



## blsnelling (Jul 21, 2013)

Your past need not dictate your future! Carry on with faith


----------



## blsnelling (Jul 21, 2013)

Sorry about all your trouble, Randy. Sometimes it just feels like life gangs up on you. We'll include you and your family in our prayers!


----------



## nixon (Jul 21, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> He's got several surgeries ahead.....we are just praying that it's not cancer.



Randy , He'll be in my thoughts and prayers .


----------



## Red Amor (Jul 22, 2013)

Your alright you lot 
good onya 
Good on the young fella to Randy yeah


----------



## LegDeLimber (Jul 22, 2013)

hope the boy gets some better news from the Dr's.
-
oh and I found the multi quote button.
It doesn't show on my screen with the way I've got the colors and font sizes controlled.
(the damn "monocular diplopia" issue again) 
switched colors back to site choice for a moment and it shows up.
Since switching to LCD monitors, I have to block all the smileys and wiggly stuff as it can help set off a migraine.


----------



## Naked Arborist (Jul 26, 2013)

SawTroll said:


> I assume that a larger carb will change that "picture" a little? :confused2:



The smaller carb should do better higher up. It builds more velocity through the throat and produces a stronger signal equals smaller droplets.


----------



## blsnelling (Jul 26, 2013)

In my experience, a larger saw on a chainsaw typically makes it stronger and faster. It's all about filling that cylinder and crankcase.


----------



## Mastermind (Jul 26, 2013)

One thing a lot of folks miss is the change in vacuum signal at the venturi when a carb is bored or altered. Many times you'll need to drill the idle and intermittent circuit to get enough fuel. Not to mention the effect at the main nozzle...... :msp_unsure:


----------



## Stihlofadeal64 (Jul 26, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> He has a tumor eating the bone around his eye tooth. His mom and dad are both losers. He's lived with his Grandma (my wife's sister) most of his life. Tough little guy......just wanted to know how many teeth he would lose.




Praying for this guy Randy. Unfortunately with my background I see a lot of this. My nephews were all raised by other family members. The youngest already has a multiple felony record. At least some of you guys who cared stepped in. The fella will be thankful some day you did. Thanks for posting.


----------



## Yukon Stihl (Jul 26, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> In my experience, a larger saw on a chainsaw typically makes it stronger and faster. It's all about filling that cylinder and crankcase.



Wouldn't that just result in a bunch of baby saws,especially if the larger saw wasn't using any personal protection when filling the crankcase?:msp_w00t:


----------



## Stihlofadeal64 (Jul 26, 2013)

Yukon Stihl said:


> Wouldn't that just result in a bunch of baby saws,especially if the larger saw wasn't using any personal protection when filling the crankcase?:msp_w00t:



Me thinks there may have been a typo


----------



## RiverRat2 (Aug 6, 2013)

rburg said:


> He will be in our thoughts and prayers.



I'm in,,,,


----------



## young (Aug 6, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> 5 - 7 hours is normal. There are a few saws that I can do in 4.



ms441 5-7 hours............to take it apart.:jester:

jon's favorite saw still?


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 6, 2013)

young said:


> ms441 5-7 hours............to take it apart.:jester:
> 
> jon's favorite saw still?



It would only take a Monkey that long to take one apart


----------



## Mastermind (Aug 6, 2013)

young said:


> ms441 5-7 hours............to take it apart.:jester:
> 
> jon's favorite saw still?



He hates them. 

The 441 is my favorite Stihl.


----------



## Officer's Match (Aug 6, 2013)

blsnelling said:


> It would only take a Monkey that long to take one apart



Here we come,
walkin' down the street...
Get the funniest looks from
everyone we meet...

:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Stihlofadeal64 (Aug 6, 2013)

howdy randy, how's the little guy (don't mean to stifle anyone's party here). Just wondering if he came out ok? Thanks for letting me know.


----------



## Mastermind (Aug 6, 2013)

Stihlofadeal64 said:


> howdy randy, how's the little guy (don't mean to stifle anyone's party here). Just wondering if he came out ok? Thanks for letting me know.



He's having his first surgery in the morning. I saw him Sunday and he was doing very well. I would be scared to death.

Thanks for asking. :msp_thumbup:


----------



## Eccentric (Aug 6, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> He hates them.
> 
> The 441 is my favorite Stihl.



You prefer the 441 over the 461?


----------



## Mastermind (Aug 6, 2013)

Eccentric said:


> You prefer the 441 over the 461?



For my own use. Absolutely.

I would take a 064 over a 066 too.


----------



## young (Aug 6, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> For my own use. Absolutely.
> 
> I would take a 064 over a 066 too.



now thats crazy talk old man.


----------



## Mastermind (Aug 6, 2013)

young said:


> now thats crazy talk old man.



Why do you say that, Asian midget?


----------



## Officer's Match (Aug 6, 2013)

Eccentric said:


> You prefer the 441 over the 461?



Absolutely, easily.


----------



## Metals406 (Aug 6, 2013)

I have yet to try a 441. . . They're still hated around these parts. :msp_unsure:


----------



## Eccentric (Aug 6, 2013)

The 441 just feels 'wrong' to me. I'm not a 'stihl man' by any stretch however. The 461 is the only current stihl effort that's even mildly interesting. An 064 is far preferable to a 660. Compared to an early 066 on the other hand....



Meh....................I'll keep my 272XP and 288XP.


----------



## Mastermind (Aug 7, 2013)

Eccentric said:


> The 441 just feels 'wrong' to me. I'm not a 'stihl man' by any stretch however. The 461 is the only current stihl effort that's even mildly interesting. An 064 is far preferable to a 660. Compared to an early 066 on the other hand....
> 
> 
> 
> Meh....................I'll keep my 272XP and 288XP.



How many tanks of fuel have you put thru a ported MS441C?


----------



## Officer's Match (Aug 7, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> How many tanks of fuel have you put thru a ported MS441C?



Exactly. Use one for work when you got a lot to do, and you will _definitely_ appreciate it. I like the way it adjusts to the way I'm cutting, ie zinging through small stuff or leaning into big chunks.


----------



## Eccentric (Aug 7, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> How many tanks of fuel have you put thru a ported MS441C?



Who said anything about ported? The answer is none (as you knew it would be). I've ran ported saws at GTG's, but haven't done real work with them. I take it my opinion here doesn't matter then?:fart:


----------



## Officer's Match (Aug 7, 2013)

I won't willingly work with anything _but_ a ported saw.


----------



## Eccentric (Aug 7, 2013)

Officer's Match said:


> I won't willingly work with anything _but_ a ported saw.



Congratulations.


Many of us don't have that luxury.....:msp_rolleyes:


----------



## Mastermind (Aug 7, 2013)

Eccentric said:


> Who said anything about ported? The answer is none (as you knew it would be). I've ran ported saws at GTG's, but haven't done real work with them. I take it my opinion here doesn't matter then?:fart:



Aaron, my friend......you surely know any saw I use will be a ported saw. How it performs stock really ain't too important to me.


----------



## Mastermind (Aug 7, 2013)

Eccentric said:


> Congratulations.
> 
> 
> Many of us don't have that luxury.....:msp_rolleyes:



You do know a guy though.......all you need to do is send one. :msp_thumbup:


----------



## mtrees (Aug 7, 2013)

The 372 that was featured in this thread is an outstanding saw. It just seems to be very light for all the scream it has.


----------



## Eccentric (Aug 7, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Aaron, my friend......you surely know any saw I use will be a ported saw. How it performs stock really ain't too important to me.



I was addressing the the feel of the saw chassis (purely subjective.......and not changed when it's ported). Also, I prefer saws with more torque. That's one thing I like about the 461 (and the saws I actually own).


----------



## Mastermind (Aug 7, 2013)

Eccentric said:


> I was addressing the the feel of the saw chassis (purely subjective.......and not changed when it's ported). Also, I prefer saws with more torque. That's one thing I like about the 461 (and the saws I actually own).



What make me like the 441 better is the spring AV........that and the M-tronic system.


----------



## mtrees (Aug 7, 2013)

I am becoming more of a fan of the old school saws the more I run them.


----------



## Trx250r180 (Aug 7, 2013)

young said:


> ms441 5-7 hours............to take it apart.:jester:
> 
> jon's favorite saw still?



084


----------



## cowroy (Aug 7, 2013)

> What make me like the 441 better is the spring AV........that and the M-tronic system.



I noticed you said the stihl you like is the 441c probably meaning you like a husky overall more better and stuff :msp_thumbup: But, it seems like every 441 I have seen(ran or seen run), even the ported ones have been underdogs compared to everything in there class. I hope you bring one to the gtg that changes my mind though


----------



## Officer's Match (Aug 7, 2013)

Eccentric said:


> Congratulations.
> 
> 
> Many of us don't have that luxury.....:msp_rolleyes:



Wasn't trying to be a [email protected], just saying the improvement is much more than worth the trouble.


----------



## Eccentric (Aug 7, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> You do know a guy though.......all you need to do is send one. :msp_thumbup:



It'll happen.


----------



## Eccentric (Aug 7, 2013)

Officer's Match said:


> Wasn't trying to be a [email protected], just saying the improvement is much more than worth the trouble.



That's cool. Sorry for the kurt reply. I *should* have stated that some of us can't afford to spend $500-$1000 on each work saw.......plus $300 (and some down time) to send it of to be ported. Heck, my work saws are all old warhorses, some of which I put together from other people's box of cast-off's.....


----------



## Eccentric (Aug 7, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> What make me like the 441 better is the spring AV........that and the M-tronic system.



Randy keep in mind my 'eccentric' tastes in saws. I prefer 'firm' rubber AV mounts over spring AV...................and don't want anything to do with IEM, M-Tronic, or Autotune.


----------



## young (Aug 7, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Why do you say that, Asian midget?



you know why.

441 was a lame duck. and the ONLY reason anybody gives it a second look is now due the electric carb and stihl loyalest having blinders on.

still a over engineered hard to service fat big as a 660, weight at much as a 460/461, wannbe husky saw.

the thing is as bad as a clam shell. yea i said it.

granted makes good-great power stock-ported, so what.

bottom line, as a whole package, it blows.

why buy a copy cat husky saw, when i can just go get the husky. ill give up some on the motor for the WAAAAAAAY BETTER whole package saw. 

and before anybody goes to say blah blah, yes ive had a ms441 and sold it and worked a more than i would have like to. might not be the "c" model but its the same damn saw. 

so is that reason enough.

i have nothing on the 064 vs 066. i do like a good running 064. but i rather have a 461 now :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Stihlman441 (Aug 7, 2013)

Officer's Match said:


> I won't willingly work with anything _but_ a ported saw.



Im the same,if ya wont to play doesnt matter what saw ya use but come to making coin then well afew of us know whats the go.


----------



## Stihlman441 (Aug 7, 2013)

young said:


> you know why.
> 
> 441 was a lame duck. and the ONLY reason anybody gives it a second look is now due the electric carb and stihl loyalest having blinders on.
> 
> ...



Ok lets sort afew things out here.

If the M Tronic is a lame duck why is there a 241 C,441C coming 261C and 661 C M Tronic ?.

You dont need to service um.

Auto tune Huskys how many of then have been returned under warrenty.

Dont blame you for selling the 441 old non M Tronic model.

You send me a Husky 70cc saw that is better for work than a 441C and i will pay you double for it.

:smile2:


----------



## young (Aug 7, 2013)

Stihlman441 said:


> Ok lets sort afew things out here.
> 
> *If the M Tronic is a lame duck* why is there a 241 C,441C coming 261C and 661 C M Tronic ?.
> 
> ...



you might want to re-read my post.


----------



## Stihlman441 (Aug 7, 2013)

Yep right o why is a 70cc Husky better than a 441C R MTronic ?.:msp_unsure:


----------



## young (Aug 7, 2013)

Stihlman441 said:


> Yep right o why is a 70cc Husky better than a 441C R MTronic ?.:msp_unsure:



so why is the same saw even you sold SO much better with the electric carb. still the same saw. right?

obviously you didnt re-read my post, never said the electric carb aka m-tronic was a lame duck. iam taking about the 441. 

lame saw before the m-tronic and still a lame saw with it. 

glad it works for you where the standard ms441 didnt :msp_rolleyes:


----------



## Stihlman441 (Aug 7, 2013)

The reasons why i sold my old model 441 was the AV springs were soggy compared to the R model ones,and the lack of torque with no MTronic.


----------



## Eccentric (Aug 7, 2013)

Wow. The creamsickle fanfare is up in full force. As if a 441CM is *really* significantly better as a work saw than a 372XP (which is *the* saw in the title of this thread BTW) ......:msp_rolleyes:

How the heck did this go from a "see how I port a *372XP*" thread to a "the MS441CM is far and away the best 70cc class work saw ever!" thread???


----------



## Eccentric (Aug 7, 2013)

Stihlman441 said:


> Im the same,if ya wont to play doesnt matter what saw ya use but come to making coin then well afew of us know whats the go.



PLENTY of folks have done a damn good job making 'coin' with stock saws. I'm not saying ported saws aren't good work saws. That'd be stupid (and has been argued to death in other threads). However, to state that they're the ONLY way to do work...... or imply that guys that run stock saws are just playing around (meaning amateurs/hacks/whatever).......well that's just arrogant bull####......


----------



## mdavlee (Aug 7, 2013)

Metals406 said:


> I have yet to try a 441. . . They're still hated around these parts. :msp_unsure:



Me either. I want to try out a ported one. I prefer the 372 as a work saw but a 461 was fun to run and not much weight difference.

A ported 576 autotune is a nice running saw also. It might be the wrong color and all:msp_scared:


----------



## Officer's Match (Aug 7, 2013)

Eccentric said:


> Wow. The creamsickle fanfare is up in full force. As if a 441CM is *really* significantly better as a work saw than a 372XP (which is *the* saw in the title of this thread BTW) ......:msp_rolleyes:
> 
> How the heck did this go from a "see how I port a *372XP*" thread to a "the MS441CM is far and away the best 70cc class work saw ever!" thread???



Good point. If Husky had AT'd the 372, I doubt I would have bought a 441C. As it is, I greatly prefer my 441 to my 390XP (in terms of feel/handling/starting/etc) but I admit that's not a fair comparison - just the closest I can make.


----------



## Mastermind (Aug 7, 2013)

cowroy said:


> I noticed you said the stihl you like is the 441c probably meaning you like a husky overall more better and stuff :msp_thumbup: But, it seems like every 441 I have seen(ran or seen run), even the ported ones have been underdogs compared to everything in there class. I hope you bring one to the gtg that changes my mind though



I don't have one at the moment....... :msp_sad:



young said:


> you know why.
> 
> 441 was a lame duck. and the ONLY reason anybody gives it a second look is now due the electric carb and stihl loyalest having blinders on.
> 
> ...



I've got a MS441........but not a C. Yes, it really makes that much difference. The M-tronic system is a great addition to that saw. 

As for anyone saying that the 441C is the best 70cc saw. I missed that, and sure didn't say it. I've got several 372XPs on the shelf, and ain't letting them all go. 

*What I did say is that the 441C is my favorite Stihl.* 

What I like about the 441C, as Young noted, is that it is very "Husky like". It's a quad port design, with spring AV......but, it also has the M-tronic system (that I like a lot) and it has a stratified engine, which means better fuel economy, and less fumes in my face. 

I've offered to trade a very nice ported Husqvarna 372XP for a stock Stihl MS441CRM and no one has taken me up on that......the guys that have those saws must like them pretty well. 

Remember guys, this ain't about which is "best". They are just chainsaws......a tool that we use.........period. 

opcorn:


----------



## tlandrum (Aug 7, 2013)

can I get a,, woot,,, wooot for ported saws.


----------



## Mastermind (Aug 7, 2013)

tlandrum said:


> can I get a,, woot,,, wooot for ported saws.



WOOT WOOOOOOOT


----------



## wyk (Aug 7, 2013)

Stihlman441 said:


> Ok lets sort afew things out here.
> 
> If the M Tronic is a lame duck why is there a 241 C,441C coming 261C and 661 C M Tronic ?.



They're German. They wouldn't be caught dead without having all their ducks in a row.

Now enjoy some German music, Ja! Gott weiss Ich will kein Engel sein!!!!

Rammstein Engel (Official Video) HD - YouTube


----------



## Trx250r180 (Aug 7, 2013)




----------



## rburg (Aug 7, 2013)

I sure would like to see how Randy ports a 372, or maybe a 2171 since that is what I have.


----------



## moody (Aug 7, 2013)

Stihlman441 said:


> Ok lets sort afew things out here.
> 
> If the M Tronic is a lame duck why is there a 241 C,441C coming 261C and 661 C M Tronic ?.
> 
> ...



Address?

I mean honestly would you even give the Husqvarna a chance? No big deal really I don't mind peoples personal preference. Just because you prefer it doesn't always make it better. Here's an example of that. I'm a Ford guy raised in a family with Ford employees. Chevy guy's always say Ford sucks blah blah my reply is they get what I need done. 

The most important thing's about a tool are 1.did it do they job?2.were you satisfied with the quality? 3. is it comfortable during use for you? 4.did it make your job easier?

If they do these then no reason for argument


----------



## Mastermind (Aug 7, 2013)

moody said:


> Address?
> 
> I mean honestly would you even give the Husqvarna a chance? No big deal really I don't mind peoples personal preference. Just because you prefer it doesn't always make it better. Here's an example of that. I'm a Ford guy raised in a family with Ford employees. Chevy guy's always say Ford sucks blah blah my reply is they get what I need done.
> 
> ...



The Husky's air filter won't work in their wood. Australia has several of the hardest woods in the world.......that means they see a lot of fines. Much more than we could imagine. The Husky filter material just isn't fine enough to keep it out.


----------



## mdavlee (Aug 7, 2013)

I think we need to send a ported 576 AT over there. It might change his mind on Stihl.


----------



## Mastermind (Aug 7, 2013)

mdavlee said:


> I think we need to send a ported 576 AT over there. It might change his mind on Stihl.



I'm porting one of those right now.....


----------



## Majorpayne (Aug 7, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> I'm porting one of those right now.....



Pics?


----------



## moody (Aug 7, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> The Husky's air filter won't work in their wood. Australia has several of the hardest woods in the world.......that means they see a lot of fines. Much more than we could imagine. The Husky filter material just isn't fine enough to keep it out.



We cut a lot of Hedge around here so I know what you're saying. It may not be the hardest wood in the world but you'd be surprised to see where it ranks. That's one thing I'm glad Stihl finally got right for the hardwood guys.


----------



## wyk (Aug 7, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> The Husky's air filter won't work in their wood. Australia has several of the hardest woods in the world.......that means they see a lot of fines. Much more than we could imagine. The Husky filter material just isn't fine enough to keep it out.



Ah yes, the old Aussie "our wood is tough and makes sawdust!" nonsense. We know none of you ever sharpen your chains! Admit it! It's the main reason they port their saws. Otherwise it takes forever to make the sawdust they use to turn in to pellets to power the huge industrial-sized grinders that turn Koala and Kangaroo meat into Vegemite.


----------



## tlandrum (Aug 7, 2013)

you guys should know by now that ported saws suck,geesh


----------



## moody (Aug 7, 2013)

tlandrum said:


> you guys should know by now that ported saws suck,geesh



So over rated:hmm3grin2orange:


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## Mastermind (Aug 7, 2013)

tlandrum said:


> you guys should know by now that ported saws suck,geesh



Of course the saws I build suck more....................


.......................fuel that is. 



:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## naturelover (Aug 7, 2013)

I will say that the C on the end of the 441 sold me on that saw. The 440 was sitting right beside it, but I couldn't see paying more for a saw with less power and no M-Tronic. I picked them up and I really couldn't tell much difference between the two. The 440 looked a little more compact, but I couldn't feel it just holding it. 

OTOH, I do know it would have been a harder decision to pick the 440 over the regular 441.....

But there is something about the MT system though, it just.....works. And woks well.

I had looked at a 372xp when I bought the MS-362, but I didn't think I would need that big of a saw at the time.

Still don't really, but the 441c is fun to run. 

Any new saw I buy will have a MT or AT system of some sorts on it, especially if it works as well as the MT system does. 

Now if Husky can get their AT system worked out. 


Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## Eccentric (Aug 7, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> ...As for anyone saying that the 441C is the best 70cc saw. I missed that, and sure didn't say it. I've got several 372XPs on the shelf, and ain't letting them all go.
> 
> *What I did say is that the 441C is my favorite Stihl.*......



There's a possibility that I was addressing statements made by someone *other than* you...:msp_rolleyes:



> ...Remember guys, this ain't about which is "best". They are just chainsaws......a tool that we use.........period.



Exactly.:msp_thumbup:




tlandrum said:


> you guys should know by now that ported saws suck,geesh





moody said:


> So over rated:hmm3grin2orange:



Aside from you fellows making jokes.................who said that sort of thing *in this thread*? Stating that work can be done and has been done with stock saws (in response to statements that ONLY ported saws can be used for work.......or that people that use stock saws are just 'playing') is *NOT* the same thing as stating that ported saws suck....opcorn:


----------



## moody (Aug 7, 2013)

naturelover said:


> I will say that the C on the end of the 441 sold me on that saw. The 440 was sitting right beside it, but I couldn't see paying more for a saw with less power and no M-Tronic. I picked them up and I really couldn't tell much difference between the two. The 440 looked a little more compact, but I couldn't feel it just holding it.
> 
> OTOH, I do know it would have been a harder decision to pick the 440 over the regular 441.....
> 
> ...



I haven't seen an AT system fail yet nor have I heard of one failing. If you're referring to the carb issues in the early 550's yes there were problems but I've not seen a case where Husqvarna hasn't handled it.


----------



## SawTroll (Aug 7, 2013)

naturelover said:


> ....
> Now if Husky can get their AT system worked out.



There is no evidense that anything is wrong with the AT - it just tends to get the initial blame when something else is faulty (carb or coil), and for operator error.


----------



## naturelover (Aug 7, 2013)

Well, that was meant the AT saws as a whole I suppose. 

One would have to admit, there have been several reports on here of the starting problems and such on a couple models of the AT saws. Doesn't seem to pop up on the non AT saws, least it isn't posted on here as much. 

I hope they get, or have already gotten, it figured out, as I would like to see the more emissions friendly and efficient electronic systems on future saws, regardless of who makes them. 


Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## Hedgerow (Aug 7, 2013)

SawTroll said:


> There is no evidense that anything is wrong with the AT - it just tends to get the initial blame when something else is faulty (carb or coil), and for operator error.



Is M-Tronic something Stihl came up with? Or are they paying royalties to another company for the rights to use it?
Just my curiosity...
:msp_rolleyes:


----------



## young (Aug 7, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> I don't have one at the moment....... :msp_sad:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



just saying if you like the ms441 before its even better now with the electric carb. its just getting old how its a whole new saw now with the "c" added, thats all.

its still the same saw with the same design. 

and everybody knows i aint no orange fanboy. 

as for the filter, stihl had the same issues as any other brand in letting aussy fines go through until the release of the hd2 filter. so up to that point husky did just as good of job as any saw.


----------



## SawTroll (Aug 7, 2013)

Hedgerow said:


> Is M-Tronic something Stihl came up with? Or are they paying royalties to another company for the rights to use it?
> Just my curiosity...
> :msp_rolleyes:



As far as I know, they pay Husky to use it, and it basically is the first generation Husky AT. I can't prove it though.


----------



## SierraWoodsman (Aug 7, 2013)

Heck, Randy hasn't even got my 372 yet, and I'm already itching to get it back and run that bad boy!
Looking forward to having one of these : :msp_biggrin:


----------



## MarkEagleUSA (Aug 7, 2013)

naturelover said:


> One would have to admit, there have been several reports on here of the starting problems and such on a couple models of the AT saws. Doesn't seem to pop up on the non AT saws, least it isn't posted on here as much.


I would wager that the vast majority of starting problems on AT saws is operator error and not a fault of AT or the saw. The system is a bit finicky, especially with warm starts, but otherwise seems pretty solid to me. You can actually hear and feel the saws adjusting themselves in the cut.


----------



## Officer's Match (Aug 7, 2013)

MarkEagleUSA said:


> I would wager that the vast majority of starting problems on AT saws is operator error and not a fault of AT or the saw. The system is *a bit finicky, especially with warm starts*, but otherwise seems pretty solid to me. You can actually hear and feel the saws adjusting themselves in the cut.



Which is the opposite with the C-M; it excels at hot/warm starts. If you can pull it the starter cord, it will start.


----------



## mdavlee (Aug 7, 2013)

The 576 and 555 I had give me zero hot start problems. I don't know what they've done with the 550 but those 2 were flawless for me even with modded mufflers.


----------



## SawTroll (Aug 7, 2013)

mdavlee said:


> The 576 and 555 I had give me zero hot start problems. I don't know what they've done with the 550 but those 2 were flawless for me even with modded mufflers.



Some of the early 550 carbs were bad.


----------



## SawTroll (Aug 7, 2013)

MarkEagleUSA said:


> I would wager that the vast majority of starting problems on AT saws is operator error and not a fault of AT or the saw. The system is a bit finicky, especially with warm starts, but otherwise seems pretty solid to me. You can actually hear and feel the saws adjusting themselves in the cut.



A lot of people fail to look at the technical part of the manual, which result in operator errors. :msp_rolleyes:


----------



## Mastermind (Aug 7, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> He's having his first surgery in the morning. I saw him Sunday and he was doing very well. I would be scared to death.
> 
> Thanks for asking. :msp_thumbup:



Jacob is out of surgery and is doing well. A large celled *benign* tumor was removed, he lost one tooth. Reconstructive surgery is scheduled for two weeks from now. 

Thanks to all you fellers that sent prayers up for this little guy. I know they helped.


----------



## cowroy (Aug 7, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Jacob is out of surgery and is doing well. A large celled *benign* tumor was removed, he lost one tooth. Reconstructive surgery is scheduled for two weeks for now.
> 
> Thanks to all you fellers that sent prayers up for this little guy. I know they helped.



:msp_thumbup:


----------



## mdavlee (Aug 7, 2013)

That's great news Randy:thumbup:


----------



## tlandrum (Aug 7, 2013)

good news in deed


----------



## Mastermind (Aug 7, 2013)

mdavlee said:


> That's great news Randy :thumbsup:



Yes it is. I'm so relieved. I was pretty worried........my lack of faith still pops thru at times.


----------



## Ymountainman (Aug 7, 2013)

*Prayers Answered!*

Im glad Jacob is doin good!


----------



## bcaarms (Aug 7, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> my lack of faith still pops thru at times.



Yeah, you and Mother Teresa. She wrote several letters of her battles with doubt. It evidently tormented her. Yet she put one foot in front of the other and acted as if she had faith, even during her doubt. Her honesty allows me to not be so hard on myself when I fall short in the doubt area. When kids are involved its really different than when it's ourselves that are in peril. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## MCW (Aug 7, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> The Husky's air filter won't work in their wood. Australia has several of the hardest woods in the world.......that means they see a lot of fines. Much more than we could imagine. The Husky filter material just isn't fine enough to keep it out.



Filter oil works. But Husky still need to pull their finger out 



mdavlee said:


> I think we need to send a ported 576 AT over there. It might change his mind on Stihl.



No it won't  Not even water boarding and electrocution would change Andrew's mind.


----------



## blsnelling (Aug 7, 2013)

SawTroll said:


> As far as I know, they pay Husky to use it, and it basically is the first generation Husky AT. I can't prove it though.



I find that very hard to believe. They accomplish the same thing, but are quite different.


----------



## Stihlman441 (Aug 8, 2013)

No it won't  Not even water boarding and electrocution would change Andrew's mind.[/QUOTE]

Hang on bloke,if you can show me somefin new that will help me cut more wood more easily then i will look at it.:msp_unsure:


----------



## MCW (Aug 8, 2013)

Stihlman441 said:


> Hang on bloke,if you can show me somefin new that will help me cut more wood more easily then i will look at it.:msp_unsure:



Hey sorry mate. That was meant as a joke. You only have to look at the saws in your sig to see that sending you a Husky won't achieve much


----------



## Stihlman441 (Aug 8, 2013)

MCW said:


> Hey sorry mate. That was meant as a joke. You only have to look at the saws in your sig to see that sending you a Husky won't achieve much



Could even look at a Dolmar.:msp_w00t:


----------



## MCW (Aug 8, 2013)

Stihlman441 said:


> Could even look at a Dolmar.:msp_w00t:



Don't be silly. You can look at it next week. I'm actually more keen to have a play with your 461 than your 441's


----------



## Stihlman441 (Aug 8, 2013)

Im gunna de tune that 461 and chain it to the bench before ya get here.


----------



## MCW (Aug 8, 2013)

Stihlman441 said:


> Im gunna de tune that 461 and chain it to the bench before ya get here.



I'll bring the 5" cordless Hitachi grinder...


----------



## Stihlman441 (Aug 8, 2013)

Ya but ya wont like the sideways balance.


----------



## MCW (Aug 8, 2013)

Stihlman441 said:


> Ya but ya wont like the sideways balance.



The Dolmars and 390XP are inboard clutch too


----------



## Stihlman441 (Aug 8, 2013)

Are, ya,cough but its broken,wont have the parts to fix it untill after you have been.:msp_sad:









All right ya can run it a little bit.:msp_unsure:


----------



## rburg (Aug 8, 2013)

Glad to hear about Jacob. I hope he continues to improve.


----------



## Mastermind (Aug 8, 2013)

rburg said:


> Glad to hear about Jacob. I hope he continues to improve.



He'll probably have a few more surgeries to endure, but should recover just fine.


----------



## cheeves (Aug 8, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Yes it is. I'm so relieved. I was pretty worried........my lack of faith still pops thru at times.



A problem that plagues us all, as it has man down thru the ages! 
Glad Jacob is OK!!!


----------



## bcaarms (Aug 14, 2013)

*372 xp at*

So when the AT version is released, how will it compare ported to the current 372 ported?


----------



## Majorpayne (Aug 14, 2013)

How long is the string in my pocket?


----------



## Mastermind (Aug 14, 2013)

bcaarms said:


> So when the AT version is released, how will it compare ported to the current 372 ported?



I'm thinking it will be a 572 or something. I hope it's like a supersized 562XP.


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## tlandrum (Aug 14, 2013)

legally I have to deny the existence of the 572. :hmm3grin2orange: but ,I did have a saw with no name in my possession for a while.


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## moody (Aug 14, 2013)

tlandrum said:


> legally I have to deny the existence of the 572. :hmm3grin2orange: but ,I did have a saw with no name in my possession for a while.



Do you feel it performed as well or better than the original xpw?


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## Hedgerow (Aug 14, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> I'm thinking it will be a 572 or something. I hope it's like a supersized 562XP.



I've heard that rumor...
:msp_thumbup:


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## Hedgerow (Aug 14, 2013)

moody said:


> Do you feel it performed as well or better than the original xpw?



Classified.....
:matrix:


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## bcaarms (Aug 14, 2013)

*Reason I'm asking*

(In aircraft, the runs of an alike version are called blocks. When a block is different enough they start another series letter. AH-64A, then AH-64D, then block III of the delta model became AH-64E)

It seems to me that like most things in life, there is a learning curve on porting any saw. It seems that there is also a learning curve on the engineers part in releasing the saw, and one in porting the saw and figuring out if the AT is pretty much the same as the previous "block II" AT or if they have moved further along the evolution of AT with the initial release of the 572.

So when the initial version of the 572 comes out, do I want to have mine be the first one ported, or do I wait around and see how the performance works out on someone elses saw being the first one? I assume the 572 will come in at a substantial price for starters. :msp_sad:


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## rburg (Aug 14, 2013)

After you get all those red and black saws from Wartburg, you probably won't even want a 572.


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## bcaarms (Aug 14, 2013)

*Oops forgot*

And how long after the 572 will it come out in Red and Black?:msp_w00t:


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## moody (Aug 14, 2013)

bcaarms said:


> (In aircraft, the runs of an alike version are called blocks. When a block is different enough they start another series letter. AH-64A, then AH-64D, then block III of the delta model became AH-64E)
> 
> It seems to me that like most things in life, there is a learning curve on porting any saw. It seems that there is also a learning curve on the engineers part in releasing the saw, and one in porting the saw and figuring out if the AT is pretty much the same as the previous "block II" AT or if they have moved further along the evolution of AT with the initial release of the 572.
> 
> So when the initial version of the 572 comes out, do I want to have mine be the first one ported, or do I wait around and see how the performance works out on someone elses saw being the first one? I assume the 572 will come in at a substantial price for starters. :msp_sad:



Nothing ventured nothing gained. Records never get set by spectators and results never change without risk. 

In the case of a saw the potential gains are there. Just depends if you want to pay full price for them or save some green to get them.


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## wyk (Aug 14, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Here's the scale.......looks like 13.1 grams



Wait a second. How did we get to so many pages and no ones noticed you're using a drug-dealer scale? You porting peoples noses as well? I hear it pays better...


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## tlandrum (Aug 14, 2013)

moody said:


> Do you feel it performed as well or better than the original xpw?



legally I don't have an opinion of this non existent saw. but I may have dreamed that it really liked it better than the xpw. but I was just dreaming im sure.


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## bcaarms (Aug 14, 2013)

tlandrum said:


> legally I don't have an opinion of this non existent saw. but I may have dreamed that it really liked it better than the xpw. but I was just dreaming im sure.



In your dream was it Red and Black?:msp_ohmy:


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## Hedgerow (Aug 14, 2013)

bcaarms said:


> In your dream was it Red and Black?:msp_ohmy:



May have been green...


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## Officer's Match (Aug 14, 2013)

bcaarms said:


> In your dream was it Red and Black?:msp_ohmy:



That would be one of those dreams you don't talk about in public.


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## bcaarms (Aug 14, 2013)

Officer's Match said:


> That would be one of those dreams you don't talk about in public.



You're right on that one. I can wait till it hits the shelves, but I would like one in Red and Black. 

Your dog avitar is beautiful. Hope he or she is doing well. My malamute is back in his baby play pen for six weeks recovering from his second ACL tear surgery. This time the right leg. In about 5 weeks I'll have him back with a full bionic rear suspension.


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## Officer's Match (Aug 14, 2013)

bcaarms said:


> You're right on that one. I can wait till it hits the shelves, but I would like one in Red and Black.
> 
> Your dog avitar is beautiful. Hope he or she is doing well. My malamute is back in his baby play pen for six weeks recovering from his second ACL tear surgery. This time the right leg. In about 5 weeks I'll have him back with a full bionic rear suspension.



Thanks, Baron is doing great. I grew up having Malamutes at home. Beautiful and hard headed dogs. Best wishes to yours.


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## MGoBlue (Mar 16, 2014)

Mastermind said:


> Hopefully you can see the bevel/radius I put on the port edges in this shot.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for showing the bevel. I'd love to see a vid of this but I have a much better idea of how far to go. What about polishing the exhaust port, is this in a finished state?


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## Mastermind (Mar 16, 2014)

That is as polished as I go.


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## 814hammer (Mar 18, 2014)

Mastermind said:


> I have......and I use it on all the 372s I build these days. I also use it in 346s. Not all jugs will have enough meat there though.
> 
> Here's some pics of the finished jug.
> 
> I use a 180 grit diamond egg shaped burr to get this finish. It's not real rough, yet I like to think it promotes atomization. I use this finish in the lowers and intake, but use a smoother grit in the uppers.


Why not polish smooth cause not as big of gain for as much time polishing real smooth I always thought the smoother the better stuff flows but I know nota about porting


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## moody (Mar 18, 2014)

814hammer said:


> Why not polish smooth cause not as big of gain for as much time polishing real smooth I always thought the smoother the better stuff flows but I know nota about porting



Polished aluminum doesn't dissipate near as fast as a surface with texture. Which means that it gets hotter. My ultimate goal is for the saw to run cooler. So I don't polish the exhaust port. I use 120 grit and get uniform surface. 

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk


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## nmurph (Mar 18, 2014)

The exhaust should be smooth.

An air cooled two stroke derives its cooling from expelling the exhaust as quickly as possible and by the quenching of the incoming fuel/air charge. Intakes are left with a little roughness to promote a tumbling of the incoming air/fuel and a more complete burn of the mix.


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## Mastermind (Mar 18, 2014)

If you do a bit of study you will find a term known as a boundary layer.

Learning to study the task at hand, and comprehend all you find is a wonderful tool that the Internet has made available for us all.


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## 814hammer (Mar 18, 2014)

Mastermind said:


> If you do a bit of study you will find a term known as a boundary layer.
> 
> Learning to study the task at hand, and comprehend all you find is a wonderful tool that the Internet has made available for us all.


I guess I could have not been so lazy and just searched it myself instead of asking lol


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## Mastermind (Mar 18, 2014)

I get PMs all the time. Hey Randy tell me all I need to know about porting a saw in two paragraphs or so. 

I'm sorta snappish about that lately. 

It took some serious study to learn how to do this well. Tough to condense it down and pour it in a feller's ear.


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## nmurph (Mar 18, 2014)

Mastermind said:


> I get PMs all the time. Hey Randy tell me all I need to know about porting a saw in two paragraphs or so.
> 
> I'm sorta snappish about that lately.
> 
> It took some serious study to learn how to do this well. Tough to condense it down and pour it in a feller's ear.



Could you tell me how to make pie? Just a Cliff's Notes version will work.


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## Tree Sling'r (Mar 18, 2014)

Mastermind said:


> I get PMs all the time. Hey Randy tell me all I need to know about porting a saw in two paragraphs or so.
> 
> I'm sorta snappish about that lately.
> 
> It took some serious study to learn how to do this well. Tough to condense it down and pour it in a feller's ear.



I learned from blowing my own stuff up, you d say I have a small fortune invested in the simple methods I use.


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## 814hammer (Mar 18, 2014)

I could have looked it up but also figured I'd ask some ppl that know what there talking about cause one of my saws I was cleaning it and polished the heck out of intake and muffler ports thinking gas and air would flow in faster and also same as flowing out faster being smooth but looks like I will be roughing them up a little thanks for the info everyone


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## Mastermind (Mar 18, 2014)

Hey Neal........two cups of "I have a potty mouth" and a heaping.....


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## nmurph (Mar 18, 2014)

Mastermind said:


> Hey Neal........two cups of "I have a potty mouth" and a heaping.....




Ahhh, secret family recipe....you tease. I thought we were closer than that.


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## Mastermind (Mar 18, 2014)

You'll have to call me Neal. I can't be posting that stuff on the World Wide Webs.


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## masonh (Mar 18, 2014)

I am new to saws but not new at all to modifying motors and racing cars. And the guys above are correct, you don't want a super smooth finish on the intake side. You need a little roughness for intake and smoothness for exhaust.

I would defer to the saw experts for now if I wanted my saw ported because I have never done one and have actually never done motor work to a 2 cycle motor, but if it were me doing the work I would probably use a 60 or 80 grit sand roll and make sure the sand marks go against the flow for increased turbulence. Otherwise the fuel will just roll slowly down the smooth surface at a pace slower than the air. Like I said I have never worked on a 2 cycle motor so take it for what it's worth.

Maybe if he gets caught up sometime soon, I'll send my saw into Mastermind and request an even rougher port job with a 60 grit roll (if he is willing to try after I sign the necessary waivers) just to see how it turns out.


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## 814hammer (Mar 19, 2014)

When he gets caught up were he is taking work again I have a few Jonsered I will be sending him it just gives me time to get money saved to get. The 3 or 4 saws done can't. Wait


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## Jacob J. (Mar 19, 2014)

Mastermind said:


> You'll have to call me Neal. I can't be posting that stuff on the World Wide Webs.


How do I knife-edge my connecting rod again? Can I make a new crankshaft out of an old fence post? Will the carburetor off my Wood Shark work on my 088?

I wanna sharp edge on that rod to cut through that dang boundary layer.


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## Metals406 (Mar 19, 2014)

Jacob J. said:


> How do I knife-edge my connecting rod again? Can I make a new crankshaft out of an old fence post? Will the carburetor off my Wood Shark work on my 088?
> 
> I wanna sharp edge on that rod to cut through that dang boundary layer.



Lame! Everyone knows to smear mayo on you ports to lube the boundary layer! No cutting needed!


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## Mastermind (Mar 19, 2014)

Muh motors are so bad ass that the boundary layer jumps outta the muffler, and knocks trees and **** down all around the saw.


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## nmurph (Mar 19, 2014)

Well, mine are so bad, I don't even take them to the woods. The trees just fall over and limb and buck themselves when they see my truck pull into the woods. If I could just get it to stack itself I'd be happy with my saws.


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## Mastermind (Mar 19, 2014)

My saws are dangerous. The squish bands will jump out and choke stock saws.


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## Trx250r180 (Mar 19, 2014)




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## ncvarmint (Mar 19, 2014)

Hey randy
How much longer till you start taking orders again?
Trevor


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## nmurph (Mar 19, 2014)

Mastermind said:


> My saws are dangerous. The squish bands will jump out and choke stock saws.


 
Squish bands, how passe.


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## Mastermind (Mar 19, 2014)

At least a month Trevor. Probably 6 weeks.


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## ncvarmint (Mar 19, 2014)

Wow
You were behind huh


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## Mastermind (Mar 19, 2014)

When I fell down the steps on ice, I knew I was in trouble before I hit the bottom.


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## nmurph (Mar 19, 2014)

Mastermind said:


> When I fell down the steps on ice, I knew I was in trouble before I hit the bottom.


 
Is that a metaphor for how busy you are, or was that something that really happened?


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## Mastermind (Mar 19, 2014)

I had already hurt my back, but was getting better. 

Then I slipped and fell down my back steps. Then it really hurted.


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## Firewood Fanatic (Mar 19, 2014)

You need an apprentice.




Mastermind said:


> I had already hurt my back, but was getting better.
> 
> Then I slipped and fell down my back steps. Then it really hurted.


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## Mastermind (Mar 19, 2014)

My son in law Jon helps me.


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## MarkEagleUSA (Mar 19, 2014)

Mastermind said:


> My son in law Jon does most of my work.


Fixed that for ya...


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## Mastermind (Mar 19, 2014)

True.


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## MarkEagleUSA (Mar 19, 2014)

Mastermind said:


> True.


You just look good (and sound funny) on the videos!

...or is that look funny and sound good?


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## Mastermind (Mar 19, 2014)

Don't make me sic a squishy band on you.


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## nmurph (Mar 19, 2014)

MarkEagleUSA said:


> You just look good (and sound funny) on the videos!
> 
> ...or is that look funny and sound good?



Says a guy from CT....talk about sounding funny...did you guys know the English alphabet actually has the letter "R" in it and it doesn't make the "AHHH" sound?


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## MarkEagleUSA (Mar 20, 2014)

Mastermind said:


> Don't make me sic a squishy band on you.


Don't make me sic 1fiddy on you... 


nmurph said:


> Says a guy from CT....talk about sounding funny...did you guys know the English alphabet actually has the letter "R" in it and it doesn't make the "AHHH" sound?


I think you need a visit from 1fiddy and some of his snackies!


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## LegDeLimber (Mar 20, 2014)

Mastermind said:


> When I fell down the steps on ice, I knew I was in trouble before I hit the bottom.


 amazing how fast that little "oh sh**!" thought can run around ya brain, gather up details and give a succinct presentation.
Often before the last bounce even happens.


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## mt.stalker (Mar 20, 2014)

Mastermind said:


> I had already hurt my back, but was getting better.
> 
> Then I slipped and fell down my back steps. Then it really hurted.



We're gettin too old for that chit Randy :-(


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## idiotwithasaw (Jan 4, 2016)

Mastermind said:


> Sorta tough to see but there's a step in the floor of this outlet. Terry Landrum first showed me this in an XPW he had......that saw was a bad dude.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


ok first off I know this is an old thread. But I have to ask, what do you mean it's worth the time? Is it worth the time to remove the step in the exhaust, or worth the time to preserve it as you widen the exhaust port? And what kind or characteristics comes from leaving it vs. Removing it. Ie: more/less speed or torque. Thanks again. We all appreciate you taking the time to share what you have learned with the rest of us.


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## Chainsaw Jim (Jan 4, 2016)

idiotwithasaw said:


> ok first off I know this is an old thread. But I have to ask, what do you mean it's worth the time? Is it worth the time to remove the step in the exhaust, or worth the time to preserve it as you widen the exhaust port? And what kind or characteristics comes from leaving it vs. Removing it. Ie: more/less speed or torque. Thanks again. We all appreciate you taking the time to share what you have learned with the rest of us.


That step resembled a bicycle ramp before grinding all that material out to make it look like a step. If you don't have the correct bit it will take you a very long time to do....say a couple hours. With the correct bit it can be done in about fifteen minutes.
So basically he's saying it's time consuming...but well worth the time spent.
To answer your other question...It creates a pipe affect.


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## idiotwithasaw (Jan 4, 2016)

Chainsaw Jim said:


> That step resembled a bicycle ramp before grinding all that material out to make it look like a step. If you don't have the correct bit it will take you a very long time to do....say a couple hours. With the correct bit it can be done in about fifteen minutes.
> So basically he's saying it's time consuming...but well worth the time spent.
> To answer your other question...It creates a pipe affect.


ok now I am gonna sound even more dumberer. What is a pipe effect?


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## Chainsaw Jim (Jan 4, 2016)

idiotwithasaw said:


> ok now I am gonna sound even more dumberer. What is a pipe effect?


Those motorbike style racing pipes you see on saws have a pipe section before it opens up to the chamber. The longer and straighter you make it, the more high end power you'll get. Go shorter and I believe the power is more low end. I probably have this all backasswards, but it should give you an idea.
I believe a straight pipe is the best for power, but it gets in the way of what you're cutting so it has to angle out of the way.


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## RiverRat2 (Jan 6, 2016)

Why are you all posting in a 3 yr old tred


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## idiotwithasaw (Jan 6, 2016)

The question you should be asking is why isn't everyone else posting in a 3 year old thread.


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## RiverRat2 (Jan 6, 2016)

It is still a pretty good thread,,, and stuff


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## idiotwithasaw (Jan 6, 2016)

Hey sometimes it's a good thing to dredge these old threads from the depths.


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## Deererainman (Jan 7, 2016)

Mastermind said:


> Here's the scale.......looks like 13.1 grams




Never before have I heard of a Flip Scale. You be HI TEK .......... and stuff.


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