# Running costs of a chipper



## Big A

just bought a chipper and I was just wondering how much it costs to run per day, (how to cost it into the price) as I've always hired in and just added a small percentage for myself.


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## Buzzlightyear

Have you bought it outright or hiring, leasing, loan etc. not to hard to work it out that way. Carry on as you were before if it worked just the money goes in your pocket now instead of someone elses 

One little scary thing i do is add up all my fixed overheads including what i'd like to earn a month ! and divide it by the roughly 20 working days there are in a month then add on 20% for the business and see what figure i've got. Most days i get what i need / want but others i bum out  It seems the right result jobs are getting a little thin on the ground lately !!


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## Big A

bought the little beaut outright, didnt want to borrow money! just wondering rough prices on blade sharpening etc, as its second-hand from a reputable local dealer.... PROCHIP... (Timberwolf150's business) depreciation shouldn't be too much of an issue. Really just wondering how to put by to cover running costs.


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## SteveBullman

snap Big A, i just bought a machine from timberwolf150 too.
what do you get?


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## PTS

I just got two sets of four knives back from the sharpener and it ran me $40-$50 for them all. Don't know if that is good or bad. I thought it was decent.

I don't figure in the cost of the chipper. I price the job on what it is worth to remove the tree and if the chipper makes my job easier and faster then it is in my best interest to use it and own one. In Iowa the residential trees are all tops so there is tons to chip and with a 12 inch throat vermeer it really takes the work out of it.


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## gorman

that's what i pay for one set bro.


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## PTS

So your saying I shouldn't call the company and complain


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## xander9727

I've been paying $105 to have the four twelve inch double sided knives for my woodsman sharpened.

I charge $70 per chipping hour for my chipper. This does not include the truck that drags it there or the guys that feed it. I add the cost of a chipper (maintenance) per year (for five years) to the price of a new one, plus the interest on the loan, plus insurance, minus the residual value after five years (what I can sell it for). I multiply this number by 1.25 and divide by the number of hours I chip per year x 5 and that is how I get my hourly rate. Every January I recalculate all my equipment costs and figure my 1/4, 1/2 and full day rates as well as my machine time. That way I'm competitive but don't lose money.

Hope this helps.


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## PTS

xander9727 said:


> I've been paying $105 to have the four twelve inch double sided knives for my woodsman sharpened.
> 
> I charge $70 per chipping hour for my chipper. This does not include the truck that drags it there or the guys that feed it. I add the cost of a chipper (maintenance) per year (for five years) to the price of a new one, plus the interest on the loan, plus insurance, minus the residual value after five years (what I can sell it for). I multiply this number by 1.25 and divide by the number of hours I chip per year x 5 and that is how I get my hourly rate. Every January I recalculate all my equipment costs and figure my 1/4, 1/2 and full day rates as well as my machine time. That way I'm competitive but don't lose money.
> 
> Hope this helps.




Must be nice. Around here you could never get that. You are looking at over $100 an hour just to chip brush. I can see having an hourly rate if JQ Public calls and wants you to come over and remove downed limbs or brush they have been stockpiling. I could also see it if is a Time and Material project.


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## begleytree

gorman said:


> that's what i pay for one set bro.



Yup, I'm paying $1/inch 4 blades x 7.5" x 2 for the other side + tax is about $70 a set to sharpen.
Nope no complaint calls, PTS 
-Ralph


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## xander9727

PTS said:


> Must be nice. Around here you could never get that. You are looking at over $100 an hour just to chip brush. I can see having an hourly rate if JQ Public calls and wants you to come over and remove downed limbs or brush they have been stockpiling. I could also see it if is a Time and Material project.



I have a 15" chipper with a winch. Most large trees take less than one hour (usually much less) to chip so I usually add $70 for every job I do. If I am doing an extra large tree, multiple trees or land clearing then I will add the appropriate extra time. If I do not do this I WILL be losing money on these jobs. I'm not in this for the practice. There are plenty of people in Iowa that spend over $50K on a truck or SUV. A $20K minivan would work just as well but they want to have an SUV. They have the money........you just need to convince them to spend it. Don't use pressure or double talk, find their needs and meet them......at a profit. Who wants to be known as the cheapest company around? Be one of the most expensive and justify it with service, quality and reliability. Most people don't think about fertilizing, cabling, bracing, using tree growth regulators, installing bio-barriers, pruning, etc. These are great services to offer and have greatly increased profit margins. Additionally, these require return trips for follow ups which give you the opportunity to sell again. Removal based tree work is a game of constantly seeking out customers. Plant health care is one of managing a customer base. 
Once you figure out what your cost are you know what you have to charge. If your going to lose money or be poor, do it spending time with family...........not breaking your back. Figure out what trucks, equipment, insurance, employee benefits and pay you would like to have and offer. Figure the cost of that now and start charging it. Eventually you will be able to afford it provided you can sell the work. If sales aren't your strong point, improve your skills through seminars, education and practice, or higher a great sales person. Part of success in business is knowing what you should do and what you should delegate. One person cannot be the best at everything but, one person can find the best people.

My $.02


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## Redbull

Very good post Xander. I still think there needs to be a forum on this board that focuses on business related issues. There's a lot of great info on this board regarding trees which is what it's for, but there is more to running a business than just a knowledge of trees. We could all benefit from the vast knowledge that we all have about business experiences, mistakes, what works and what doesn't. Even the guys that don't own/operate a business could benefit by seeing just what is involved in order for them to get a check at the end of the week.


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## Koa Man

My rate for chipping is $150 an hour, plus travel rate of 50 cents a mile and travel time of $25 an hour. I have a 1 hour min. and if I need to also dispose of the chipped debris, the disposal fee and travel time to the green waste facility, as I do not fill up my free dump spots with chipping only jobs. The $150 and travel time needs to be paid in advance, as soon as I show up. If the job is more than 20 miles away, they need to give me a $100 cash deposit before I drive there. I have had quite a few accept those conditions and many who wanted me to chip, but I did not have time for them. I prefer to do my own tree work instead of chipping for other people. I also tell them they will need to feed the chipper, I do not drag brush and would only be there to operate the machine. My chipper is a Woodsman 18X.


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## Redbull

I charge $100 for "disposal" on any job, up to a full load. Doesn't matter if I'm chipping or just piling brush in the dump truck, cost is the same. On smaller jobs it's just easier and more cost efficient to load the bush in the truck. To me, it doesn't make sense to pull the chipper, lower MPG on the truck, and use the gas in the chipper for 2-3 stacks of brush. Cost to the customer is the same though. A very, very full load in my truck costs $60 to dump. I've never paid this much as they usually charge me 40-50 for a good size load. Also, I do mostly pruning and small-medium removals, so the type of jobs you do will also make a difference in how you charge. For large removals the brush and logs gets subbed to my buddy with the claw truck, then the customer gets charged according to what it costs for him to come out and a few dollars for my time setting it up.


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## xander9727

If someone wants to have me chip and haul debris I charge $200 per hour and have a $300 minimum. This will get 15 yards of chips hauled, each additional load is an additional $100.In my area a 12" chipper is about $275 per day to rent. Then you have to pick it up and bring it back, put fuel in it and feed it yourself. With this in mind $300 is a deal. Most chip jobs are done in 30 minutes or less. So I can still make my necessary margin. If I am leaving the chips on site I charge $170 per hour with a $300 minimum. Like Wesley I'd rather do my own tree work than chip stuff for do-it-yourselfers or other companies.


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## Redbull

I hate chip jobs. No one seems to understand the concept of at least stacking everything in the same direction, let alone, the idea of making piles less then 10ft tall. :angry2: 


But, they can be good money makers


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## Big A

stephenbullman said:


> snap Big A, i just bought a machine from timberwolf150 too.
> what do you get?


I got a real smart jensen with a couple of hours on the clock. small world isnt it! Suppose you bought one of them timberwolf thingys, then.


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## Koa Man

Redbull said:


> I hate chip jobs. No one seems to understand the concept of at least stacking everything in the same direction, let alone, the idea of making piles less then 10ft tall. :angry2:
> 
> 
> But, they can be good money makers



That's why you have them feed the chipper. All you do is operate the feed bar (if you have a hyd. feeder) and make sure foreign objects are not being put in. They will quickly realize what hard work is and the longer they take is fine with me. $2.50 a minute adds quickly.


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## Redbull

Right on Koa Man, I hear ya! I make them drag to the chipper, but I feed it, less liability. Most people that I do chip jobs for have never operated a chipper before and I'd feel real bad if they went through mine.


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## xander9727

Redbull said:


> Right on Koa Man, I hear ya! I make them drag to the chipper, but I feed it, less liability. Most people that I do chip jobs for have never operated a chipper before and I'd feel real bad if they went through mine.



Not to mention the clean up.


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## Redbull

Eeeewwwwww!!!


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## Redbull

Back to the cost of running a chipper, does anyone know where I could find out how much fuel per hour a Ford 3.0 inline six cylinder running at 2200 RPMs consumes? I know it would be an avg. and there are variables but an avg. would be helpful.


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## xander9727

That number would change alot depending on the load applied at that rpm.


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## Redbull

So what would be the best way to calculate fuel consumption? I guess I could empty the tank, add one gallon of fuel, run a good mix of wood and brush, and see how long it lasts. Do this maybe three times and take an avg. Does that make sense?


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## PTS

If you want to know how much fuel you are running. Fill up and keep track of hours and gallons. Run at a rate and then re-evaluate. Adjust accordingly. I would do it over a period of a week or better. Every wood type will run through differently. Some chips easy and other are a pain in the rear.


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## DDM

Redbull said:


> Back to the cost of running a chipper, does anyone know where I could find out how much fuel per hour a Ford 3.0 inline six cylinder running at 2200 RPMs consumes? I know it would be an avg. and there are variables but an avg. would be helpful.



Mine uses almost 3 Gallons an hr. That will increase if you are running larger logs thru it and the governor is working overtime to keep the rpms up.


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## begleytree

If you're just looking for a number, My chipper runs the ford 300 inline 6 (4.9L) and I can chip all day on 5-7 gallons of gas. mine's running 2400 rpm, I chip everything from twigs to 12 inch stuff as I don't bother with firewood, and drag to the chipper before starting, or if too much, I shut down while we drag up more. Thats about 14 cu ft.
-Ralph


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## DDM

begleytree said:


> If you're just looking for a number, My chipper runs the ford 300 inline 6 (4.9L) and I can chip all day on 5-7 gallons of gas. mine's running 2400 rpm, I chip everything from twigs to 12 inch stuff as I don't bother with firewood, and drag to the chipper before starting, or if too much, I shut down while we drag up more. Thats about 14 cu ft.
> -Ralph



Wow. Mine will suck the tank dry in 8 hrs


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## Redbull

What kind of chipper are you guys running?


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## PTS

You all got me curious. But I know I can run a full day and then some. I guess I should check on my tank size. I'll try to look at the gas receipts in the office tomorrow.


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## PTS

Redbull said:


> What kind of chipper are you guys running?





Vermeer 1230 with 12 inch throat.

For us, if it is smaller then around 10 inches diameter it usually gets chipped.


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## begleytree

Redbull said:


> What kind of chipper are you guys running?



I'm running a morbark 290


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## Redbull

I'm still trying to identify my chipper. I do know that it's a 1992 Brush Bandit, has a Ford inline six, and a 16" throat. The measurements of the knives are the same as the 60xp and 65xp (at least the knives in the Sherrill catalog say 60xp & 65xp) but the machine doesn't look like one. It's been painted and no decals are visible anymore.


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## begleytree

Could you just call brush bandit? I know if I call morbark for a part, they want the model and the last 4 #s of the vin, once they have that, they know more about it than I do. They even told me the numbers on the metal tag on the engine valve cover.
-Ralph


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## Koa Man

Diesel engines will be way more efficient as far as fuel consumption goes. I know this from having owned both gasoline and diesel engine chippers. I will never own a gas engine chipper again. (the last one I had was in 1993)


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## Redbull

begleytree said:


> Could you just call brush bandit? I know if I call morbark for a part, they want the model and the last 4 #s of the vin, once they have that, they know more about it than I do. They even told me the numbers on the metal tag on the engine valve cover.
> -Ralph



So if I gave them the numbers on the metal plate of the engine, they should be able to tell me the model of the chipper? Those are the only legible numbers on the machine since it's been painted.


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## begleytree

Redbull said:


> So if I gave them the numbers on the metal plate of the engine, they should be able to tell me the model of the chipper? Those are the only legible numbers on the machine since it's been painted.




I don't know, I do know Morbark can, I figured it may be worth a try. BTW, mine has a stamped tag about 18" long on the tongue with the serial/VIN # stamped into it. Not saying you're blind, but a good handrub over parts may find it.

KOA, If I were in your area, I'd agree with you. But in cold weather, diesel adds another problem I don't have with a gasser. In cold weather, I pull the choke, crank for about 3 seconds, and she fires right up. Diesel has it's advantages, but due to weather and diesel availability here, It's more hassel than advantage.
-Ralph


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## Redbull

I'll check again, thanks Begley.


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## ROLLACOSTA

I saw that Jenson,looks like you got a good deal bigA i take it its the 2001 Jensen i saw on Earborist ??...Steve what did you buy?? i reckon i'll get a new 7.5'' 40hp turbo diesel chipper from Prochip this spring ''''IF I GET A GOOD DEAL'''' ....BigA imo a chipper doesn't put money on a jobs price if anything it lowers the price of the job,as its a luxury item,it should save you time/money ie make you cheaper compared to a guy with no chipper if you get what i mean,now charging to take the chips away especially if it will cost you to dump them thats a different story...


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## SteveBullman

actually im just messing around rolla.....me and bigA went 2's up on the jensen


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## Redbull

Rolla, I see your point, but you have to add the cost of the chipper into the equation, how else are you going to be able to afford to replace it? The way I look at it is this. I break down what it would cost to replace the chipper in X number of years (your preference), and the cost of fuel and maintainance. Everytime I bill this amount per hour for the chipper, this money is set aside. When the time comes for maintainance or replacement, you will have a nest egg to dip into for the cause. Does this make sense or am I missing something?


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## begleytree

I don't bill to replace it, I bill to pay for it. At the end of 5 years, I've gotten paid enough that it's been paid off (plus some), and still holds residual value for trade in, or as a spare. The next one is on payments, and the billing price changes accordingly. Theres no way I can predict what a new chipper will cost in 5 years. I know what the billing price will be close to for an X amount of money (price) and know what the local market will bear, combined with how well the new chipper fits with my needs, I can set myself a limit on how much money to spend on the next chipper.
If you pay cash for one, you start by paying yourself back, as you loaned your company the money for the chipper, then start building profit towards the next one to go along with the usually lower trade in value. Most guys don't pay cash for a $25K chipper, usually under $10. Thats reflected in the trade in value, and will need added to by residual profit.
my take-Ralph


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## Koa Man

A chipper saves me money big time. Right now my chipper truck is under repair and disposal fees are costing me about $100 a day. With a chipper, no disposal fee and usually no more than $20 worth of fuel. Taking into account the extra costs of maintenance and other factors, I figure a chipper probably saves me $60 a day. That's an extra $1200-1400 extra in my pocket per month.

Be prepared for new chipper prices (and new truck) prices to be a lot higher in 2007. The various equipment manufacturer's told me at TCI that due to stricter emission controls required in 2007, the engine manufacturers have informed them to be prepared for a 25% increase in prices.


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## ROLLACOSTA

Redbull said:


> Does this make sense or am I missing something?



We both are correct ,what i'm saying is if a guy with a chipper bids against a guy without a chipper the guy with the chipper should in theory be cheaper,because the guy without a a chipper will have to spend more $$ on man hours ,dumping costs,hauling costs ie fuel wear and tear etc etc .Like all businesses obviously you have to add up all your costs ie wages,equipmant costs,insurance,etc etc to get get your day or hourly rate nothing comes for free..

Slightly off topic but I believe a firm carrying out big TDs and has a chit load of big equipment bucket trucks,18''chippers ,big trucks,etc etc,,can price there jobs up cheaper than a firm with regular kit climber mid size truck climber and average size chipper anyone agree or disagree??? p.s i have never really done the math on this so its purely guessing


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## Koa Man

In one trade magazine a few years back, it highlighted a company that did all of its work with a roll off truck and loaders. It would drop the bin at the site and the crew would load the bin with the grapple loader, like a Swinger. No chipping on site. It would take all the debris to its yard and run it through a tub grinder. They found that it was the fastest and most efficient way for them. One truck could just drop bins at several sites. I thought it would be great if you had the space and finances to set up such an operation.


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## SteveBullman

ive always thought that prices should work out roughly the same for the guy with all the kit and the guy with the bare essentials. difference being the guy with the kit gets the job done in a fraction of the time and is on to the next job whilst the small time guy grafts all day, probably earns just as much as the big fella.
course this is all down to the individuals pricing


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## ROLLACOSTA

stephenbullman said:


> ive always thought that prices should work out roughly the same for the guy with all the kit and the guy with the bare essentials. difference being the guy with the kit gets the job done in a fraction of the time and is on to the next job whilst the small time guy grafts all day, probably earns just as much as the big fella.
> course this is all down to the individuals pricing



Your probably coorect,what i should of said who out of big guy 'n' little guy is the more proffitable at the end of the year..


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## dshackle3

I never thought about that. Sounds like it would be very fast and cost efective.


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## DDM

I'm running a Bandit 200+ with a 300 6cyl 
and a BC1400XL with a Cat diesel.

The Diesel will burn 1.5 gallons per hr. The Gas is burning about 3 an hr.
I also have a Chuck-N-Duck But it's been so long since it has been used i cant remember 
how much fuel it burns.


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## DDM

I wouldnt even attempt to do tree work without a chipper.


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## Redbull

Rolla Posted:

Slightly off topic but I believe a firm carrying out big TDs and has a chit load of big equipment bucket trucks,18''chippers ,big trucks,etc etc,,can price there jobs up cheaper than a firm with regular kit climber mid size truck climber and average size chipper anyone agree or disagree??? p.s i have never really done the math on this so its purely guessing
__________________
I agree they should probably be able to gross more, but their net profit might by lower because of their overhead.

Here is my theory and the numbers I crunched last night. Let's say I want purchase a new chipper in three years. I set a replacement value at $30k. Over 3yrs that would be 10k a year. Now, for numbers sake let's say that this chipper could be billed for 1hr/day, 5 days a week which means 260 hrs billed a year. Remember, this is for numbers sake and everyones usage will vary. For newer companies this could be a tough number to determine because you don't have experience on your side. Okay, so you need 10k a year divided by the 260 billable hrs/yr to come up with 38.46/hr. That is just for the machine and does not include maitainance or fuel, but you get the picture. Now, if I can bill this chipper out for this many hours a year, for three years, you now have 30k to invest in a new chipper, cash,no financing needed. If I missed some things, please point them out cause I'm here to learn.


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## Redbull

The key to this method is to not spend this money. Yes , I know you will have to pay taxes on the money you save through the years, but this can be figured in and a good accountant can help minimize what Uncle Sam gets.


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## PTS

I might be the only one on here that does this but i don't bill out separate pieces of equipment on a job. They are my tools of the trade. I replace them when I need to. I operate my business on a how much money are we making a 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, and year. I am going to just use an easy round number of $100 dollars an hour. Lets say I go to the job and look at it and with the equipment I have it is going to take 6 hours so the price is $600. This includes groundsman and equipment. Now lets say gas goes up and I am underbidding my competitors then maybe I raise it to $110 and hour. The best part of this method is at the end of the day you can check yourself on how you did on your bid. If you bid 6 and took 10 then stupid you. If you bid 6 and took 3 then take the wife out for supper  

It works for us. I do have an hourly rate on the chipper (we operate), skid loader and trailer rental and the bucket truck odd job usage (again we operate.)


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## DDM

PTS said:


> If you bid 6 and took 10 then stupid you.



I call it Stupid Tax  I Seem to pay allot of it.


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## PTS

TreeCo said:


> My bidding has always been similar to PTS's except I start with how much I need to make per day, and then figure how much of a day or days it's going to take to do the job including travel time.
> 
> If the job is extremely equipment heavy I up the bid a bit to cover my increased cost. If the job is real equipment light......I reduce my rate slightly if I think I need to to get the job. I also give large bids on day rates alone with no fixed final price and tell the customer we will stop when they want us to. Day rates often mean no final rake up......unless of course they want to pay us to rake.
> 
> By setting prices by the day or percentage of my day rate when I get backed up a bit I start aiming for a higher day rate.




Tree Co,

I adjust mine that way to and really like the end results. Much easier to bid and it helps me out because a couple of my head guys have the ability to bid jobs based on this concept because the only thing they need to know is how long it will take and multiply by the day rate. Which takes a lot of weight of my shoulders when they are on a far out of town job and the neighbor comes over and wants a bid on something, they just go ahead and bid it.


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## xander9727

begleytree said:


> I don't know, I do know Morbark can, I figured it may be worth a try. BTW, mine has a stamped tag about 18" long on the tongue with the serial/VIN # stamped into it. Not saying you're blind, but a good handrub over parts may find it.
> 
> KOA, If I were in your area, I'd agree with you. But in cold weather, diesel adds another problem I don't have with a gasser. In cold weather, I pull the choke, crank for about 3 seconds, and she fires right up. Diesel has it's advantages, but due to weather and diesel availability here, It's more hassel than advantage.
> -Ralph



Don't believe him Redbull that's exactly how he told me I was blind...  

Begley,
The newer diesels are a lot better than a few years ago. I have a Cummins on my chipper and it fires up in 15 degree weather without a block heater. It runs a little rough for the first minute but I've yet to have it fail to start.


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## xander9727

PTS said:


> I might be the only one on here that does this but i don't bill out separate pieces of equipment on a job. They are my tools of the trade. I replace them when I need to. I operate my business on a how much money are we making a 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, and year. I am going to just use an easy round number of $100 dollars an hour. Lets say I go to the job and look at it and with the equipment I have it is going to take 6 hours so the price is $600. This includes groundsman and equipment. Now lets say gas goes up and I am underbidding my competitors then maybe I raise it to $110 and hour. The best part of this method is at the end of the day you can check yourself on how you did on your bid. If you bid 6 and took 10 then stupid you. If you bid 6 and took 3 then take the wife out for supper
> 
> It works for us. I do have an hourly rate on the chipper (we operate), skid loader and trailer rental and the bucket truck odd job usage (again we operate.)



This may work on jobs that take a couple of days but what do you do on a 3-4 week long project. What if it's prevailing wage? What if you are chipping a large amount of debris and leaving it on site? What if the job is very labor intensive and requires a small amount of equipment?

If you know what each piece of equipment cost to operate and what your wage rate is, you can effectively bid any job. Without this knowledge you can be very high or low. Some just avoid these jobs instead........how many people want to avoid increasing their receipts by $50 - $100K per year. Larger jobs can offer large increases in revenue but if you don't know what to charge they can destroy a company.

You also can have a great degree of confidence in knowing you are charging a fair and profitable price.

Once again my $.02


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## Redbull

Xander wrote:

""If you know what each piece of equipment cost to operate and what your wage rate is, you can effectively bid any job. Without this knowledge you can be very high or low. Some just avoid these jobs instead........how many people want to avoid increasing their receipts by $50 - $100K per year. Larger jobs can offer large increases in revenue but if you don't know what to charge they can destroy a company.

You also can have a great degree of confidence in knowing you are charging a fair and profitable price.""


This is my point. If you don't know what it costs to operate, how can you give a fair bid and how will you know what to set aside to replace equipment?


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## xander9727

You can't........and won't.

It's called a WAG.


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## begleytree

xander- good one man!! 
-Ralph


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## DDM

A New piece of equipment is much easier to Cost out than a used one.If you go out and buy a new chipper you can assume that the machine Cost's X it will be ready for replacement in X amount of yr's.Servicing this piece of equipment will Cost X Amount for a predetermined period blades will need to be replaced every X period of time.

With a used piece you know what it cost's how many yr's you anticipate keeping in What you maintenance should be but then it is an older piece so then hopefully you 
wont start having maintenance issues.

Example I Bought a 4 yr old Carlton 4400D With a Duetz Diesel on it last september this machine had 560 hrs on it Machine ran perfectly.At 589 Hrs Last Month The Machine Spins a rod bearing and ruins the engine. The engine cost's Right at 6K to replace.
Who would ever thought a Duetz would self destruct at less than 600 Hrs?
That would have been hard to foresee and bill out accordingly.

I REALLY Wish i had purchased a new grinder but O Well There's that stupid tax again...........


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## DDM

A new crank is 1800.00 and the price For piston,Rings,bearings is 450.00 per hole.It will have to have a new head 2400.00 Piston hit the head when the bearings went.
And a new oil cooler 525.00. Way too much for a repair.

Theres that stupid tax again. Shoulda bought a new one.


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## DDM

DDM said:


> A New piece of equipment is much easier to Cost out than a used one.If you go out and buy a new chipper you can assume that the machine Cost's X it will be ready for replacement in X amount of yr's.Servicing this piece of equipment will Cost X Amount for a predetermined period blades will need to be replaced every X period of time.
> 
> With a used piece you know what it cost's how many yr's you anticipate keeping in What you maintenance should be but then it is an older piece so then hopefully you
> wont start having maintenance issues.
> 
> Example I Bought a 4 yr old Carlton 4400D With a Duetz Diesel on it last september this machine had 560 hrs on it Machine ran perfectly.At 589 Hrs Last Month The Machine Spins a rod bearing and ruins the engine. The engine cost's Right at 6K to replace.
> Who would ever thought a Duetz would self destruct at less than 600 Hrs?
> That would have been hard to foresee and bill out accordingly.
> 
> I REALLY Wish i had purchased a new grinder but O Well There's that stupid tax again...........




So? Now i have another 6K in my tow behind.So? Do i now re evaluate My operating cost's? Do I nowCharge 200.00 for a stump everyone else would grind for 100.00?
Or do i use my new S-300 With the stump grinding attachment? Now The S-300 with the grinder cost's 38K so do i now charge 400.00 for a 100.00
stump? No I'll just get to sit in the A/C with the stereo on while i grind that 
100.00 stump. Maybe i should just not grind the 100.00 stump But then i loose the 800.00 tree. 
Point is If the market will only bear X$ you will have to get your cost's at or under that # or you have a problem.I can justify owning a skidsteer
stump grinder because it will load out the wood on the job and Lower labor cost's as well as grind the stump.


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## Redbull

I think skid steers and minis can justify themselves in more ways than one in the tree business. I can't wait until I purchase one.


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## DDM

I'd still like to see a mini load these.


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## xander9727

There is no way you can do an accurate cost analysis on a used piece of equipment that you don't KNOW the usage and maintenance history on. This is why you have to buy new and sell before the end of it's life cycle. Trucks usually don't have major problems under 100k if maintained properly. If you drive 35k a year you need to expense it over 3 years. If you drive 10k a year, then expense over 10 years. It's not so much the repair cost that are expensive it's the down time. It is easy to lose $2,000 a day if your chipper is down. Ditto for your chipper truck. If it takes 2 weeks to get the equipment fixed you not only lose thousands but you may lose part of your customer base as well. Buy your car used......they're easy to rent. Chip trucks and dump trucks are a little more difficult to find at budget rent-a-car. If it makes you money, you have to be able to depend on it.

It really does take money to make money. You gotta spend it to see the return.


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## xander9727

DDM,
Is your grinder a highflow?


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## DDM

xander9727 said:


> There is no way you can do an accurate cost analysis on a used piece of equipment that you don't KNOW the usage and maintenance history on. This is why you have to buy new and sell before the end of it's life cycle. Trucks usually don't have major problems under 100k if maintained properly. If you drive 35k a year you need to expense it over 3 years. If you drive 10k a year, then expense over 10 years. It's not so much the repair cost that are expensive it's the down time. It is easy to lose $2,000 a day if your chipper is down. Ditto for your chipper truck. If it takes 2 weeks to get the equipment fixed you not only lose thousands but you may lose part of your customer base as well. Buy your car used......they're easy to rent. Chip trucks and dump trucks are a little more difficult to find at budget rent-a-car. If it makes you money, you have to be able to depend on it.
> 
> It really does take money to make money. You gotta spend it to see the return.



If Possible you should keep a backup chipper. I learned that lesson 3 yrs ago 
2 days before a severe ice storm hit. Now i keep 3 chippers for 1 crew. LOL


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## DDM

xander9727 said:


> DDM,
> Is your grinder a highflow?[/QUOTE
> 
> O Yeah it wont take a cut unless High flow is on.And running 1900 RPM High Flow Its The Cat's Arse.


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## xander9727

I have a Gehl 6640 high flow witha miller mfg high flow grinder. I ordered one of the sandavik duradisk wheels for it. I talked to them today and they said it would be done in 2 weeks. If you go to 1" body fittings on your quick disconnects you will cut about 20% faster.

And faster is goooood.....


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## SteveBullman

ROLLACOSTA said:


> Your probably coorect,what i should of said who out of big guy 'n' little guy is the more proffitable at the end of the year..



i'd say the little guy


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## Acer

What are Jensen spares prices like? Are they any cheaper than Timberwolf? Be difficult to be any more expensive...


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## PTS

Redbull,

I know that there is a lot of talk about always buying new. But the flip side to that coin is that you have to start somewhere and if that means buy used, using it for a while and then selling to upgrade so be it. I have yet to buy new and I have a lot of really nice toys. You just have to shop around and have an expert check the piece out before you buy.


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## timberwolf150

Acer said:


> What are Jensen spares prices like? Are they any cheaper than Timberwolf? Be difficult to be any more expensive...



Acer: Being a dealer now and not working for TW, we repair all makes of chipper. TW parts def cheaper than Jensen. Also find them hard to deal with. Only a landline phone. No computers / faxes mobiles etc because of their religion. Model numbers in this country differ to other European countries so often there is alot of confusion.


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## Redbull

PTS said:


> Redbull,
> 
> I know that there is a lot of talk about always buying new. But the flip side to that coin is that you have to start somewhere and if that means buy used, using it for a while and then selling to upgrade so be it. I have yet to buy new and I have a lot of really nice toys. You just have to shop around and have an expert check the piece out before you buy.



The chipper I have now was a blessing to have only being in the business for less than a year before I got it. I was doing what most of us were when we started and I was loading a trailer and pulling it off at the dump or burning it. I have a used chipper, but it is in great mechanical shape. It could use a little paint, but thats okay. When I do buy a new chipper, I probably will buy new, and I'll keep my current one as a backup since it's paid for. But, I do not know what the future holds and those plans can change.
DDM,
So far, I've only had to deal with wood that big twice. Both times the cleanup was subbed to a buddy with a claw truck. About 80% of my jobs are in residential backyards, with gates...so a mini would best suit my needs. You a nice piece of equipment there, though


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## DDM

Redbull said:


> About 80% of my jobs are in residential backyards, with gates...so a mini would best suit my needs. You a nice piece of equipment there, though



That came out of a residential backyard.We just removed the fence for the removal.


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## Redbull

Okay, ya got me there!


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## Redbull

How does that handle on the turf. Does it tear it up much. I know a lot has to do with the operator.


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## DDM

Redbull said:


> How does that handle on the turf. Does it tear it up much. I know a lot has to do with the operator.



Me and 1 other Employee are the only 2 that can operate on turf without Damage.Of course you cant do a 180 in it either.And you cant use the same trail every trip thru either. But hauling out a 5K chunk of wood in one trip is priceless.
LOL. Even if it is on 2 wheels...........


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## Redbull

Yes, I would say that is priceless. Next time, get pics of the two-wheel motion though!!!


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## xander9727

I use Alturna mats to protect yards when necessary. I've taken logs that were over 4000lbs out of yards that were so soggy you couldn't push a wheel barrow through them on the Alturna mats. We pulled them up, hit the area with a leaf rake and you couldn't tell we were there. I have the white ones that won't brown the grass. Make sure you get the connect links so you can make a road.


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## Redbull

Why don't the white ones brown the grass?


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## xander9727

For two reasons. 1) They are translucent (allow light to pass through). 2) The reflect the sunlight so they have a lower surface temp.


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## Redbull

Aaahh! When you said white, I thought you meant solid white.


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## priest

Where's the best place to find those white Alturna mats with the connect links?


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## xander9727

I went through my Vermeer dealer.........He gave me the show discount after some pressure. Make sure you try and deal them down. The mats are solid white.......all the way through......not sure where your headed but I'm curious.


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## Redbull

When you say solid white, I'm thinking SOLID white. How are they transluscent if they're solid white? Maybe I'm just having a prolonged brain fart, I dunno!


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## xander9727

I'll put a really bright (halogen) light under it and see if their claims are accurate. They are out on a site so it will take a few days. I'll post a pic if I can.


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## Redbull

Aaah! Okay. Thanks. So are they usually down long enough for browning to be a problem? I know this is off topic but you've got me curious.


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## begleytree

Redbull said:


> Aaah! Okay. Thanks. So are they usually down long enough for browning to be a problem?




That depends on what part of town (OTR/LPH) he leaves them in overnight!
-Ralph


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## Koa Man

Black rubber mats left on grass for 6 hours in sunlight WILL burn the grass under it. I laid some black rubber mats on a lawn and when I pulled it off, the grass under it was burnt. It recovers in a couple of weeks, but get the white mats if you are using it on lawns. Black rubber gets really hot.


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## Redbull

Good info. Koa. Thanks.


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## priest

I'm probably about to buy an ASV track loader. I was leaning towards the RC-60, but high-flow hydraulics is not available for it. You guys have got me thinking I want high-flow to get more versatility out of my machine (stumpgrinding, etc.). 

For high flow I'd have to go up to the RC-85. It's more money, 3000lbs heavier at nearly 10,000 lbs (but not much more ground pressure with the tracks), and 2 ft longer. So it would be a little less maneuvarable, but have more versatility.

Right now I'm grinding stumps with a rental walk-behind, and that sh$$ gets old. Half the time the teeth aren't even sharp.


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## Koa Man

You could get something like the RC50 turf edition and with the money you save, buy a dedicated stump grinder. 

I think this thread is starting to go off the protective mats we laid down.


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## Acer

timberwolf150 said:


> No computers / faxes mobiles etc because of their religion.



 Out of interest, what is their religeon that doesn't allow them to use computers?

BTW where are you in the UK - anywhere near Lincs? Just in case I have more problems with my chipper..


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## ROLLACOSTA

ACER there 'plymouth brevrin' a strict so called christian bunch,all the women wear blue head scafes no bull,i'm certain they were once part of the Jehovas Witneses...Timber150 is based in Stowmarket Suffolk not far from Bury ST Edmunds..


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## Koa Man

I would think they are Amish or an off shoot of Amish. Amish don't use telephones or electricity.


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## ROLLACOSTA

No KOA there not Amish [aren't the Amish German or Dutch decent] there a bunch of homegrowns i've worked for lots of them ,actualy there very nice people,most run there own businesses like I said i'm certain they were an off shoot the JWs..I think the spelling is 'Plymouth brethrin' .You got me wondering about them now I think i'll give them a google search.


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## ROLLACOSTA

Funny they don't have computers but they do have a website LOL www.plymouthbrethren.com


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## Stumper

Rolly, I trust that the site you fopund cleared things up a little-the PB predate the JWs. Re-The Amish-much depends upon the particular ordenung-many Amish have Telephones and automobiles-their ordenungs define frivolity differently than the horse & buggy groups. Even those with cars still are committed to avoiding the frivolous-so they buy plain autos without any bells and whistles like power windows or radios. I looked at an Amish chipper once-A Morbark with a Wisconsin engine-and hand crank starting.


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