# Arborist Apprenticeship, Ontario Style



## lumberjack333 (Dec 23, 2009)

I'm getting ready to head off the Humber college here for the Level 1 Arborist program here in January... I've been told different stories by people who havn't completed the full program regarding the certification that you get at the end of it, some say its ministry... others say its CSA, one guys said you don't get squat at the end. I'm sure I'll find out on the 4th what it all is, just wondering if anyone on here that has gone through the apprenticeship and COMPLETED it could give me a heads up on what to expect...?

Thanks guys.


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## Juliano (Dec 24, 2009)

I am a humber student goin into year 2, are you going as an apprentice or not
If you do it as an apprentice you can write a test at the end and be cert. by the mtcu (the same provincial ministry that certifies electricians and plumbers) Its good to have this but you should also become certified with the isa and write there cert arborist test.

The course at Humber is damn good


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## lumberjack333 (Dec 25, 2009)

Yeah goin is as an apprentice level 1, thanks for the info Juliano!


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## IcePick (Dec 25, 2009)

lumberjack333 said:


> Yeah goin is as an apprentice level 1, thanks for the info Juliano!





lumberjack333 said:


> I'm getting ready to head off the Humber college here for the Level 1 Arborist program here in January... I've been told different stories by people who havn't completed the full program regarding the certification that you get at the end of it, some say its ministry... others say its CSA, one guys said you don't get squat at the end. I'm sure I'll find out on the 4th what it all is, just wondering if anyone on here that has gone through the apprenticeship and COMPLETED it could give me a heads up on what to expect...?
> 
> Thanks guys.



It sounds like you guys up in Canada take pride in our trade, I like to hear it!!
Down here there are too many hacks running around with no clue, experience or credentials.

Are arborists and tree workers organized up there? You guys have separate unions? After your apprenticeship do you see journeyman status, stuff like that, or no?


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## clearance (Dec 25, 2009)

IcePick said:


> It sounds like you guys up in Canada take pride in our trade, I like to hear it!!
> Down here there are too many hacks running around with no clue, experience or credentials.
> 
> Are arborists and tree workers organized up there? You guys have separate unions? After your apprenticeship do you see journeyman status, stuff like that, or no?



Here in British Columbia, anyone can climb with no credentials whatsoever. But not around powerlines, that is a trade. But us powerline arborists use spurs at all times, and top trees, so, we are hacks, according to some. Some are in the IBEW, some not. 

"Journeyman status", now thats just too funny. 

Merry Ho Ho Icepick.


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## IcePick (Dec 25, 2009)

clearance said:


> Here in British Columbia, anyone can climb with no credentials whatsoever. But not around powerlines, that is a trade. But us powerline arborists use spurs at all times, and top trees, so, we are hacks, according to some. Some are in the IBEW, some not.
> 
> "Journeyman status", now thats just too funny.
> 
> Merry Ho Ho Icepick.




So what you're saying is it's no different up there either. That's a shame. 

Using spikes and topping isn't being a hack, unless you actually think that in your mind, you're doing a "good" job. A hack is someone who runs around climbing like a jackass with only a saddle, no helmet, no chaps, just someone who looks like a monkey f.cking a football with a chainsaw, and has no chance of survival in this industry. At least that's my opinion. 

Topping and spiking near powerlines is neccessary, at times. 

Down here you can earn journeyman status climber with some line clearance companies, namely Asplundh. They're such a big company that you can move around quite a bit. 

I think the "anyone can climb" mentality keeps our industry down and disrespected.

Happy Kwanza


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## lumberjack333 (Dec 26, 2009)

Yeah its unfortuante that its an unregulated trade up here as well... The only company here that would actually give you a "Journeyman" status is Hydro One... Which I think I will be throwing some resumes at once I complete second year as a Utility Arborist.


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## Komitet (Dec 26, 2009)

if you're looking at getting on with hydro one, don't aste your breath unless you have 3500hrs of utility forestry experience, along with bucket/climbing.

All the best at Humber, I've had a few friends through the course with a lot of good to say.


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## clearance (Dec 26, 2009)

Komitet said:


> if you're looking at getting on with hydro one, don't aste your breath unless you have 3500hrs of utility forestry experience, along with bucket/climbing.
> 
> All the best at Humber, I've had a few friends through the course with a lot of good to say.



Got that, couldn't pay me to move to Ontario though......I hear once you get away from TO it can be ok.....


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## BC WetCoast (Dec 27, 2009)

clearance said:


> Here in British Columbia, anyone can climb with no credentials whatsoever. But not around powerlines, that is a trade. But us powerline arborists use spurs at all times, and top trees, so, we are hacks, according to some. Some are in the IBEW, some not.
> 
> "Journeyman status", now thats just too funny.
> 
> Merry Ho Ho Icepick.



There is industry/government negotiations going on right now about creating a Trades Qualification (ie journeyman ticket - same as plumbers, electricians, steam fitters etc) for residential/commercial arborists. 

How long it takes to work through the details is unknown, issues like grandfathering past experience, acceptance by the marketplace, apprenticeship training etc. When you think about it, the number of details to be worked out are staggering.


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## clearance (Dec 27, 2009)

BC WetCoast said:


> There is industry/government negotiations going on right now about creating a Trades Qualification (ie journeyman ticket - same as plumbers, electricians, steam fitters etc) for residential/commercial arborists.
> 
> How long it takes to work through the details is unknown, issues like grandfathering past experience, acceptance by the marketplace, apprenticeship training etc. When you think about it, the number of details to be worked out are staggering.



Heard about it, talked to a fellow who owns a tree service, was advertising for a cua. He just wanted one on staff, he told me he would help me get ISA certified so I could "take some pride in my work".

Needless to say, the conversation didn't go well after that, he also told me that he, along with a well known arborist training company he is part of were advising the wcb, about utility work.

I asked if he had ever worked around power, no, he said. Great, I can just imagine, I sure hope they are going to talk to people who have actually done the work, not just assorted paper shufflers and thier ilk. 

BC Wet, you know how that worked out with the falller cert.-I have met and worked with a few good fallers, they view it as a racket. You had to prove yourself worthy of getting achance at falling in the past, now apparently you can learn all you need to now in few weeks.

Di you ever see that documentary about falling on Global?


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## BC WetCoast (Dec 27, 2009)

clearance said:


> Heard about it, talked to a fellow who owns a tree service, was advertising for a cua. He just wanted one on staff, he told me he would help me get ISA certified so I could "take some pride in my work".
> 
> Needless to say, the conversation didn't go well after that, he also told me that he, along with a well known arborist training company he is part of were advising the wcb, about utility work.
> 
> ...



Never saw the documentary, but the faller cert, in my opinion is a scam. I can see how it evolved. In the past, all the big companies had their own fallers, who were trained on the job. As the cost of falling skyrocketed for the companies, due to WCB and union crap, they decided to contract out, but there were still older trained fallers in the system. The older fallers retire, and there are fewer experienced hands to do the training. So you end up with guys getting hurt due to inexperience and lower levels of training. 

Then you add a tough economy for the forest industry and the big boys start putting pressure on the falling contractors for production, but due to environmental factors, they are now working in much tougher terrain. So you have an increase in injuries due to the terrain and production pressures. 

Take these three factors, terrain, inexperience and production pressure and you get a few guys killed. Now here comes the next big factor, media. The forest industry is a tough industry and there has always been fallers getting killed. But now, someone (and I suspect it was the union) made a big issue to the media, who sensing a sensational story, played it up. The story gets played up (gets legs in the media lingo) and now we have a 'crisis'. Well, once you have a crisis, then government has to react and do something, and usually in this situation it is not a good thing for the industry. 

So this is how government reacted, by making training mandatory.

It is a classic case study in how governments operate.


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## outofmytree (Dec 27, 2009)

BC WetCoast said:


> Never saw the documentary, but the faller cert, in my opinion is a scam. I can see how it evolved. In the past, all the big companies had their own fallers, who were trained on the job. As the cost of falling skyrocketed for the companies, due to WCB and union crap, they decided to contract out, but there were still older trained fallers in the system. The older fallers retire, and there are fewer experienced hands to do the training. So you end up with guys getting hurt due to inexperience and lower levels of training.
> 
> Then you add a tough economy for the forest industry and the big boys start putting pressure on the falling contractors for production, but due to environmental factors, they are now working in much tougher terrain. So you have an increase in injuries due to the terrain and production pressures.
> 
> ...



I read this a couple of times but I am sorry I don't see how compulsory training for any hazardous work is a bad thing. Like you said, the work enviroment for production felling has become more dangerous than before due to terrain and industry demands. Exactly how has the obvious need for more skills and answering that need become a scam? Is the standard of training offered that bad? Do they take any old newb, run them through a 2 week course and then turn em loose to work solo?


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