# Axe Men



## John464 (Mar 7, 2008)

*Axe Men now showing*

Its not suppose to premeir till tomorrow, but if you are a Comcast Digital Cable customer you can find it in the On Demand section. I just pressed play and about to watch it now!


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## Toddppm (Mar 8, 2008)

I wasn't able to get my on demand to work but ran across another good show on The History Channel- Modern Marvels " Saws" pretty good show with short clips of feller bunchers, dropping trees with a chainsaw, misery whips, sawmills, hot saw and then into stone saws etc.


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## Bigus Termitius (Mar 8, 2008)

Toddppm said:


> I wasn't able to get my on demand to work but ran across another good show on The History Channel- Modern Marvels " Saws" pretty good show with short clips of feller bunchers, dropping trees with a chainsaw, misery whips, sawmills, hot saw and then into stone saws etc.



I saw that, pardon the pun, while I was down in Joplin for the December Ice Storm. We were taken it all in waiting for everyone to get ready to go out for an evening meal. I found it very interesting, especially the origins and early materials used.


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## reachtreeservi (Mar 8, 2008)

John464 said:


> Its not suppose to premeir till tomorrow, but if you are a Comcast Digital Cable customer you can find it in the On Demand section. I just pressed play and about to watch it now!



Thanks Man, I'm fixing to check it out !


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## Bigus Termitius (Mar 8, 2008)

*AX MEN*

Click the link for previews. You can purchase the DVD set as well...I think I will. My schedule doesn't mesh well with TV.


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## capetrees (Mar 9, 2008)

This should be good after watching the trailer for Nosac(k) the tree remover on the tree videos thread. Some REAL life treemen.opcorn:


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## capetrees (Mar 9, 2008)

Absolutely LOVED IT!!!!!!!!!!   :greenchainsaw: :chainsawguy:


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## tnttreeman (Mar 9, 2008)

Wonder what OSHA thinks of that show?


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## capetrees (Mar 9, 2008)

No way OSHA could regulate that industry. Too many variables.


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## turnkey4099 (Mar 10, 2008)

Pretty good show even if they are hoking it up some.

I wondered about the sanity of some of the things. For example the guy fooling around with that cable being taken out by the heli. Shouldn't have been anywhere near it with all the whippign around it was doing.

Another one was the boss telling the newby what the controls were on the highline carriage and the signals. Hardly something you would expect a green person try for the first time...yes, I know he was an experienced logger but unless they were faking, that guy had no clue what the controls did.

Hope they show some detailed falling cuts. Not much shown tonight. 

Harry K


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## Sunrise Guy (Mar 10, 2008)

I liked the show, although I hope, in the future, that it doesn't degenerate into an overdone "personality driven" reality show, where the individual private lives of the people seen at work become the major focus, instead of the jobs they do. I was kind of amazed at what I saw as major safety violations at each job site. If most logging operations are run the way a few of those shown are, I am surprised that the fatality rate in logging is not even higher than it is now. I'm looking forward to the next installment, but if it starts going the private life route, as I mentioned above, I won't stay tuned in for too long.


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## smokechase II (Mar 10, 2008)

*Safety?*

What about the helicopter not having a cut away feature for the cable hook-up?

FAA anyone?

**************

There aren't that many loggers now.

In the good old days Oregon and Washington *each* killed a logger a month.


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## lxt (Mar 10, 2008)

neat show!! But im sure for TV purposes it was hyped a little!! as far as the work ethic, language, atitudes, etc... seemed to be on cue for our trade.

While watching I knew I would see posts about the PPE & other safety infractions, kinda makes the guy not wearing chaps on a side job not look so bad & talk about one handing.......one on the tree to feel for the fall direction & the other on the saw for cutting these are a little bigger than top handled chainsaws LOL.

Maybe the guy who writes for TCIA complaining about certain wrong doings should of watched that show.....this is the real world & things arent always able to be done by the book!! seemed to me they watch out for one another & self responsibility is KEY!!!

All in All I liked it & the trade is finally shown "as it is" ...about time.

Hey anyone see the cover on the TCIA Mag.....tree rescue, how about those wonderful spike marks in that tree & this was rescue training!!!!! I love how they preach spikeless & then contradict themselves on their own Cover!


LXT................


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## HolmenTree (Mar 10, 2008)

Up here in the Canadian great white north all I could find on History Channel was Sands Of Iwo Jima.Maybe we'll get Axemen at a later date.


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## trimmmed (Mar 10, 2008)

Just in case we start running short on Axe Men threads. I missed the show..... who saw it?


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## teacherman (Mar 10, 2008)

I don't have cable TV. Do you think it might go online, or might a recording be available?


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## blsnelling (Mar 10, 2008)

I have cable and recorded it, but that channel is real snowy for some reason.


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## capetrees (Mar 10, 2008)

LXT,
this is finally proof of what you and i were commenting to in another thread. There is by the book and there is reality. This show is reality. Is everything safe 100% of the time? No, but they are conscious of their surroundings and experience will out do PPE anytime. Accidents happen no matter how much PPE you have nor how safe your zone is.


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## Fish (Mar 10, 2008)

So what is the deal????

Is this like the "Sopranos", but with chainsaws and axes?????

Or a documentary about loggers losing a foot?

Like "Ice Road Truckers?"


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## blsnelling (Mar 10, 2008)

It was all about pulling trees up the mountain with a cable. Almost no falling at all. I was disappointed. Very little saw time. No monster trees.


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## wood4heat (Mar 10, 2008)

The name of the show is actually axmen in case your using the search function on your dvr to find it.

Hard to judge by the first episode but it looks like it should be pretty good.


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## wood4heat (Mar 10, 2008)

blsnelling said:


> It was all about pulling trees up the mountain with a cable. Almost no falling at all. I was disappointed. Very little saw time. No monster trees.



I kinda felt the same, I doubt you'll see any monster trees in the area they're in but expect the show will be more than just yarding.


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## Fish (Mar 10, 2008)

No "Busty" women?????????


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## AT sawyer (Mar 10, 2008)

*What axmen?*

Did anybody see an axe? More like Highlinemen.


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## A. Stanton (Mar 10, 2008)

For the guys who didn't see Ax Men, I don't think you missed much. The first episode reminded me of something from MTV, where they love to scapegoat and complain. For one thing, it's too industrial. How many of you guys ever rigged a mile long caple with a helicopter? Give me a break. If the second episode doesn't shape up, I going back to watching those two guys live with the Mek tribe on the Travel Channel. They seem more genuine.


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## LarryTheCableGuy (Mar 10, 2008)

trimmmed said:


> Just in case we start running short on Axe Men threads. I missed the show..... who saw it?



Hahaha...was thinking the same...

I promise not to start a poll whether it's Ax Men, Axe Men, Axmen or Axemen.

Amen.


.


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## blsnelling (Mar 10, 2008)

The only ax they showed was in the advertisements for the show during the commercials.


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## cjk (Mar 10, 2008)

It seems to be set up like Ice road truckers or Deadliest Catch. 
4 different teams trying to make the most $$ in a season of logging. 

I thought it was OK. 

Only saw a couple of Stihls so far..........mostly red saws.


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## Valkyrie Rider (Mar 10, 2008)

I watched it last night. I'm HOPING that now that their yarders are set up the show will get a bit more interesting. Seemed like last nights episode was mostly a very brief rundown of the different logging companies on the show and mostly revolved around set up and running their yarder cables. It was pretty slow to watch. Hopefully a LOT more chips will fly in the coming episodes.


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## JPP (Mar 10, 2008)

I saw the show, I frankly got bored with it.
It was a letdown.


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## 04ultra (Mar 10, 2008)

I saw it.......  opcorn: opcorn:


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## bama (Mar 10, 2008)

I just want to see what these guys do. There is only so much stuff you can show in 45 minutes. I want to see the entire season before I make up my mind.


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## adkranger (Mar 10, 2008)

It was OK, not earth-shattering, but OK. About what I expected from the History channel and the first episode. I'll give it a few my episodes to make up my mind whether it's worth investing any more of my time though.

It is setup exactly like the Deadiest Catch, which is a little cookie-cutterish for me. Was hoping it would break new ground, not just rip off another shows format. (haven't watched the Ice Road Truckers series, just the documentary that was out a couple years ago)


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## wildbio (Mar 10, 2008)

I was hoping it would be more informative/educational. To me it was heavy on the drama side of docu-drama. 
I was hoping the format would be more like that of "Modern Marvels"


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## Gologit (Mar 10, 2008)

This is interesting. I've read all the Axe-Men posts and there's kind of a common thread that runs through them.

The Left Coast crew, especially the PNWs, seem to find the whole thing favorable so far. A few reservations about technique, but they generally like the show. They're usually the ones with first hand or real world experience at what the show portrays and they know what they're looking at.

The mid-west bunch is split about half and half on whether they like it or not. The midcontinent types who log or have a knowledge of it seem to like the show.

The east coast types, as a rule, don't seem to like it much. That might be because they don't have any basis of understanding about what Left Coast logging is really like. Maybe they were expecting Paul Bunyan with an 880 in each hand and an axe clenched in his teeth, muttering obscenities and scowling a lot as he laid waste to five square miles of forest every day.
Sorry kids, it is what it is. Stick around...you might learn something.

And before anybody protests...there are exceptions to every rule.


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## Ray Bennett (Mar 10, 2008)

The commercials for it were much better the show. I thought.


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## 2dogs (Mar 10, 2008)

Gologit said:


> This is interesting. I've read all the Axe-Men posts and there's kind of a common thread that runs through them.
> 
> The Left Coast crew, especially the PNWs, seem to find the whole thing favorable so far. A few reservations about technique, but they generally like the show. They're usually the ones with first hand or real world experience at what the show portrays and they know what they're looking at.
> 
> ...



That made me laugh! 

Besides, everyone knows Paul used Macs.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 10, 2008)

lxt said:


> talk about one handing.......one on the tree to feel for the fall direction & the other on the saw for cutting these are a little bigger than top handled chainsaws LOL.



Put a wedge in the curf and you can see even better when the fall is starting. 

These are just the companies that were small enough to let a TV crew in. I know reaal loggers wwho wear saw pants all the time. If they did not do it, LaBonville would not be making their own line in house for $100 a pop. The made a custom measure set for me at no extra charge.


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## vegaome (Mar 10, 2008)

I watched it and did not like it much. The yoder and yarder stuff I have never seen before, I liked that they made the one out of a sherman tank (I would like to see that as a show).

I was hoping they would not put the drama in it but they did. Now it will be another drama show to watch with the wife.

Maybe Fish can get them to make a show about parting out new saws. That would of been better.

Still early though, maybe/hope it will get better.

v/r

Mike


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## slowp (Mar 10, 2008)

Falling is the first step, but the logs gotta make it to the mill or no pay. You all should notice that they are not limbing or bucking, just dropping the trees and then tree length yarding. Forest Service contracts here have a 40 foot maximum log length and we require bucking prior to yarding. It is supposed to cut down on damage to the standing trees but that always depends more on the operator. On the show, looks like the one outfit has a delimber waiting on the landing, and I bet the others have either that or a processor. 

The universal thought is this: When everything goes wrong, blame it on the cutters! 

I'm waiting to see if they do an episode called;
*Log Truckers*: Gossip control of the woods and *carriers of donuts*.


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## Slamm (Mar 10, 2008)

I log in middle America, and I liked it. I was just amazed that they used such long bars for such small trees. The tree they were cutting don't look any bigger (on average) than anything we cut here, taller, yes probably but not diameter and to boot it a truly softwood.

The only use I saw those guy's had for the long bars for was as a "walking stick" when they were about to fall off a log. It helped them prop themselves back up onto the log. 

Possibly it makes drunken logging more manageable??? As to the long bars as "walking sticks", I guess that is a useful purpose....I mean reason......I mean excuse, to mount a long bar onto your saw, LOL.

It was interesting to see that for all the guy's working they don't pull out any more wood than we do. As a matter of fact I don't see how they make any money, what with all that extra expense. I'm glad I don't have to start my day out draggin some cable for 4000 feet, before the first log is landed, LOL.

Overall, I liked the show. They are trying to drama it up, but that is just showbiz stuff.

My opinion,

Sam


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## adkranger (Mar 10, 2008)

Well I'm out East and liked the actual working part of the show, I just don't like the complete recipe stolen from Deadiest Catch, right down to the FNG/Greenhorn getting verbally ripped by the experienced hand. Right out of last years season of D.C. "will he make the cut or get sent packing" I just wish they were a little bit original with this show.

But I guess I shouldn't expect much from TV/Hollywood, there hasn't been an original idea in decades........

I'll still watch and enjoy the working scenes.


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## 2dogs (Mar 10, 2008)

Slamm said:


> I log in middle America, and I liked it. I was just amazed that they used such long bars for such small trees. The tree they were cutting don't look any bigger (on average) than anything we cut here, taller, yes probably but not diameter and to boot it a truly softwood.
> 
> The only use I saw those guy's had for the long bars for was as a "walking stick" when they were about to fall off a log. It helped them prop themselves back up onto the log.
> 
> ...



Yeah, you're right. The only use for a long bar is as a walking stick. Always use the belly of your 18" bar on your 660 to cut off a root plate. TROLL!


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## 2dogs (Mar 10, 2008)

adkranger said:


> Well I'm out East and liked the actual working part of the show, I just don't like the complete recipe stolen from Deadiest Catch, right down to the FNG/Greenhorn getting verbally ripped by the experienced hand. Right out of last years season of D.C. "will he make the cut or get sent packing" I just wish they were a little bit original with this show.
> 
> But I guess I shouldn't expect much from TV/Hollywood, there hasn't been an original idea in decades........
> 
> I'll still watch and enjoy the working scenes.



Yep. It is just TV. Always good to remember that. I was a state certified Public Information Officer, a PIO, and there were times when I would read a newspaper article about some fire we had fought and wonder why I even bothered to give them a press release. They would have a picture of our ladder truck and written description of what it does and the caption would say something like "here a Fire Department crane lifts debris out of the fire. Huh? Now I don't believe anything I read and only half of what I see.


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## spacemule (Mar 10, 2008)

LarryTheCableGuy said:


> I promise not to start a poll whether it's Ax Men, Axe Men, Axmen or Axemen.
> 
> Amen.
> 
> ...



Getting ebonic, are ya? Everyone knows it's "ask man."


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## Slamm (Mar 10, 2008)

2dogs said:


> Yeah, you're right. The only use for a long bar is as a walking stick. Always use the belly of your 18" bar on your 660 to cut off a root plate. TROLL!



Don't get your panties in a wad.

Sam


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## smokechase II (Mar 10, 2008)

*Long Bars and bucking*

When you watch some of the bucking, note the forces from slope and binds and how powerful the release can be.

Now watch how close the bucker is when bucking those logs.

Honestly, another foot can be a huge gift.

***********************

Picture bucking walking along a log going slightly downhill. Longer bars make limbing easier.

Most loggers will tell you falling and bucking are important but they make their money limbing.
(Limbing takes most of the time.)

***********************

Have you seen how they limb in the Scandanavian video?

http://www.skogforsk.se/KunskapDirekt/default.aspx?p=11362&bmp=11727

then do the Film för bredband select on the lower left.

then the Avverkning med motorsåg (10 min) .

Watch the movie about 2/3rds of the way through for the limbing.

Can you picture that style of limbing if it were being done in these type of units?
(That does happen)


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## Slamm (Mar 10, 2008)

I have nothing against the long bars. I tend to use longer than everyone around here for those same reasons. I was just amazed that the trees in the show weren't any bigger. I'm not saying they don't cut biggin's out there but in that show it didn't look like you would need to use more than a 28" for most.

Now if you have to cut every tree level with the ground that is a different story. Hopefully they will show more cutting in future shows.

Well, now I'm off to "log" with my 18" full skip on my modded 084, LOL.

Sam


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## fireman (Mar 10, 2008)

lxt and capetrees my point exactly you don't have your glasses on,oh you don't have that knot right, those ppe pants aren't good enough.I really wonder how many of these guys on the site really work for a living doing what we do.do they follow a book and sit behind a computer and try to find every little thing thats wrong and criticize guys for what they do.try the real world for once step out of the desk and computer and really do the job .some of these posts responses are terrible a guy trying to get info or ask questions and get blasted for it.I think its pretty funny after awhile.lxt cape you know the real guys from the wanta be's and you guys are for real there are alot of great people on the site but sometimes it gets old.the show proves the real world and what we do.nothing is perfect do the job and go home safe.


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## RiverRat2 (Mar 10, 2008)

Gologit said:


> This is interesting. I've read all the Axe-Men posts and there's kind of a common thread that runs through them.
> 
> The Left Coast crew, especially the PNWs, seem to find the whole thing favorable so far. A few reservations about technique, but they generally like the show. They're usually the ones with first hand or real world experience at what the show portrays and they know what they're looking at.
> 
> ...



LOL,,,, Thats a pretty good summation BOB!!! I would say,,,,, of the post by region,,,
anywho,,,,,, and really funny with the Paul Bunyan razz as well!!! LOL

I think they set the stage by the diversity of the different crews and their different types of equipment, budgets, & terrains to work,,,, got one that gotta be bettern 30% grade,,,,, one bunch is working a big blowdown area with some good size Dougies still standing and trying to capitilize on the blowdowns but emphasizing on the dangers inccurred by trees that have lost their bark and are slick as geased owl $h!t and have had a few biguns get away from the landing and scare the crap out of everybody,,, escpecially the young buck hooking up the chokers!!!! and the blowdown rootballs rearing up!!!!!!! with headleaners about to barberchair like crazy!!!!!!! 

Equipment breakdowns w/drama!!!!! sure,,, Stuff happens!!!!

I say just set back and watch,,,, will there be more drama???? well yeah!!!!!!!!

will the narrators say things totally wrong, & will the camera crews and producer get the guys to pump it up a wee bit for the spectators???? (already did) well yeah!!!!!!!,,,

it does give a taste to what it was like from my being able to be hanging out on the leftcoast for the second time and was able to just hang out have fun and not be working,,,,





I really loved it,,,,, it brings back good memories





see what I mean?????? I think any of you grumble sticks if you ever get the chance,,,,, should go there and see it for yourself,,,, upclose and personal,,,,,


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## slowp (Mar 10, 2008)

smokechase II said:


> When you watch some of the bucking, note the forces from slope and binds and how powerful the release can be.
> 
> Now watch how close the bucker is when bucking those logs.
> 
> ...



When you have to cut a bent over alder, no bar is too long. A longer bar also allows you to cut while hiding behind another tree. A longer bar lets you reach farther when standing on a steep slope. You can also keep your arms out of harms way. The bar might get smashed but your arms won't. It doesn't look like you'll get to see much bucking and limbing as they have a delimber waiting up on the landing. It is more efficient but they'll have more of a slash pile to reckon with on the landing.


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## oldsaw (Mar 10, 2008)

RiverRat2 said:


> LOL,,,, Thats a pretty good summation BOB!!! I would say,,,,, of the post by region,,,
> anywho,,,,,, and really funny with the Paul Bunyan razz as well!!! LOL
> 
> I think they set the stage by the diversity of the different crews and their different types of equipment, budgets, & terrains to work,,,, got one that gotta be bettern 30% grade,,,,, one bunch is working a big blowdown area with some good size Dougies still standing and trying to capitilize on the blowdowns but emphasizing on the dangers inccurred by trees that have lost their bark and are slick as geased owl $h!t and have had a few biguns get away and scare the crap out of everybody,,, escpecially the young buck hooking up the chokers!!!! and the blowdown rootballs rearing up!!!!!!! with headleaners about to barberchair like crazy!!!!!!!
> ...



Geez, a guy takes a vacation in the PNW and he comes back an "expert"....Did you stay at a Holiday Inn Express?    

Mark


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## slowp (Mar 10, 2008)

*Ruh roh!*

River Rat 2 forgot to put in the PNW disclaimer that he used photo shop to put in a blue sky and had to draw in the normally socked in volcano shots. 
Or else he was here during the 1 day of sun we get each year. Just watch the weather get miserable later on in the program. Like this.


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## Cedarkerf (Mar 10, 2008)

Slamm said:


> I have nothing against the long bars. I tend to use longer than everyone around here for those same reasons. I was just amazed that the trees in the show weren't any bigger. I'm not saying they don't cut biggin's out there but in that show it didn't look like you would need to use more than a 28" for most.
> 
> Now if you have to cut every tree level with the ground that is a different story. Hopefully they will show more cutting in future shows.
> 
> ...



The hay days are over three log loads were the norm. Mills are set up for peck-err poles. Most trees end up in a stud mill or chunk-ed into structure boards. Long bars give you space and it shows how over exaggerated the critical importance of balance and weight. Use what u brung.


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## Gologit (Mar 10, 2008)

adkranger said:


> Well I'm out East and liked the actual working part of the show, I just don't like the complete recipe stolen from Deadiest Catch, right down to the FNG/Greenhorn getting verbally ripped by the experienced hand. Right out of last years season of D.C. "will he make the cut or get sent packing" I just wish they were a little bit original with this show.
> 
> But I guess I shouldn't expect much from TV/Hollywood, there hasn't been an original idea in decades........
> 
> I'll still watch and enjoy the working scenes.



Well said.


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## RiverRat2 (Mar 10, 2008)

oldsaw said:


> Geez, a guy takes a vacation in the PNW and he comes back an "expert"....Did you stay at a Holiday Inn Express?
> 
> Mark




Good one Mark!!!!!


Nope,,,,,, No hotel!!!! I camped out with Dean a few days under the shadow of Mt. St. Helen!!!!!!!!! and He helped me build a new 044/046 OEM hotrod!!!!! that absolutley freaking rocks,,, then I Hung out with Andy a couple of days ,,,,,, and My Ex BIL(we stihl talk) is a detective w/Seattle PD

I'M by far no logging expert,,,,,, but I have lots of saw time on blowdowns and storm cleanup with My familys background,,,,,,,

BTW Finally got the P/C for the 066 Mag your old Full wrap handle bar is going on   it should be a good un!!!!! :greenchainsaw:  

Yeah slowp is right,,,,,,, it rained the whole time!!!!!


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## xxl (Mar 10, 2008)

Me to i wanted to see more saws but i will watch and see if it get better have not ruled it out


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## Gologit (Mar 10, 2008)

slowp said:


> to
> 
> The universal thought is this: When everything goes wrong, blame it on the cutters!
> 
> ...



Absolutely right about blaming the fallers for everything...'twas ever thus.

And log truck drivers don't "gossip". Girls gossip. Log truck drivers trade information. Also supposition, rumor, innuendo, and just plain old bald face lies. But never gossip.

But, please, be quiet about the donuts...there's only so many to go around and since the FS people never show up until after eight o'clock in the morning(the middle of the day for us) there aren't any donuts left for them. And we feel soooooo bad about that. We tried leaving the empty box with a few crumbs in it on the ticket stump at the landing but a chaser poured water in the box and ate it for breakfast. He said the cardboard was a little chewy but it cured the loose bowels he'd been having.


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## Magnum783 (Mar 10, 2008)

fireman said:


> lxt and capetrees my point exactly you don't have your glasses on,oh you don't have that knot right, those ppe pants aren't good enough.I really wonder how many of these guys on the site really work for a living doing what we do.do they follow a book and sit behind a computer and try to find every little thing thats wrong and criticize guys for what they do.try the real world for once step out of the desk and computer and really do the job .some of these posts responses are terrible a guy trying to get info or ask questions and get blasted for it.I think its pretty funny after awhile.lxt cape you know the real guys from the wanta be's and you guys are for real there are alot of great people on the site but sometimes it gets old.the show proves the real world and what we do.nothing is perfect do the job and go home safe.



True that, I agree sometimes there are short cuts that just need to be taken. But one must take a little more caution when other people's houses and properties are in danger. I know there is no more risk that risking your life but if you want to risk your life that is your prerogative but others hire you to make sure their property is kept safe and unharmed. Please do not think I am disagreeing with you I am agreeing just making another point.
Jared


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## fireman (Mar 10, 2008)

magnum 783 Im with you a 100% im just saying all these back seat drivers trying to give advice that dont have a clue what the real world is all about and follow a manual or computer.safety of your customer and the guys that work for you and with you are the most important with out them you would be and have nothing.


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## Cedarkerf (Mar 11, 2008)

smokechase II said:


> What about the helicopter not having a cut away feature for the cable hook-up?
> 
> FAA anyone?
> 
> ...


 
And at least 2 or 3 volkswagon bugs and drivers taken out by log trucks.


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## bigshea13 (Mar 11, 2008)

too many idiots and not enough intelligent thinking taking place. no wonder that industry has so many incidents. the guy with the wire and the heli....idiot. the guy running the yarder who quit...idiot. the guy who owned th company and lost his hand and then was still insistant that they needed to hurry and get more wood out than the others because it was a pride thing......idiot. the guy running the loader in a hurry and almost killed the choker....idiot the guys running the log trucks at full tilt....idiot.
ive got many logger connections and its rare for them or their employees to have an incident because money and ignorance doesnt overshadow their good sense.


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## bendtrees (Mar 11, 2008)

I enjoyed the show. I was disappointed by the "green gold" "millions" "thousands a day" hype. I had to laugh, c'mon a crew, equip, and trucks pulling down $3K a day! It reinforces some extinct timber baron stereotype while the math doesn't add up. I expected the danger hype, but in West Coast Logging I suppose the hype is semi-accurate. 

I wouldn't be surprised if the Bell didn't have a way to punch off the line and the writers simply "left that out." I wish I watched it more closely. 

I think OSHA does officially oversee logging operations. I never saw them in the woods though. Are there really too many variables? I see way more in any technical removal, pruning, or crane jobs then I saw in Heli logging. 

Yeah, there are a lot of idiots. I remember guys who didn't have enough character or backbone to quit a job right. But, West Coast logging is the most brutal work I've seen, that deserves respect. And you've got to love the Henry Stamper attitude / character. "you've gotta get back out there like a man, get back out there like a logger..." (I paraphrase) I would say its the hardest work I've seen, but I'm sure some of you would laugh me down after seeing that one guy waddle up into the yoader.

Oh, BTW just got my ISA Cert today! Gotta get a beer to celebrate and dig through the envelope again to find the secret decoder ring.


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## ciscoguy01 (Mar 11, 2008)

*Show*

So ya'll know, I'm recording the series and am going to burn it to DVD. I'll make an extra set and once the series is done I'll send it out to be passed around to anyone/everyone that has/hasn't seen it and wants to make a copy. I can't/don't really have the time or means to make copies, but I'll gladly send out say 2 copies and ya'll can just mail'em around. Soooooo... Keep this in the back of your mind if you haven't seen it or can't see it, you'll have a chance. 

 eh?

I'm also gonna try and get it copied onto VCR tape also...


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## lxt (Mar 11, 2008)

fireman said:


> lxt and capetrees my point exactly you don't have your glasses on,oh you don't have that knot right, those ppe pants aren't good enough.I really wonder how many of these guys on the site really work for a living doing what we do.do they follow a book and sit behind a computer and try to find every little thing thats wrong and criticize guys for what they do.try the real world for once step out of the desk and computer and really do the job .some of these posts responses are terrible a guy trying to get info or ask questions and get blasted for it.I think its pretty funny after awhile.lxt cape you know the real guys from the wanta be's and you guys are for real there are alot of great people on the site but sometimes it gets old.the show proves the real world and what we do.nothing is perfect do the job and go home safe.




Absolutely!! On here we always hear safety, PPE, wrong, wrong, Id done this or id done that!!! Ive worked for the big companies & let me tell ya, SAFETY isnt always a concern....for me YES!! for them NO.

We always hear spikeless trims, etc..etc... funny how even the industry authorities TCIA & ISA mess up when writing articles or taking pictures, if they quote wrong or misprint they write a retraction!! If they take a picture of someone doing something like spiking a live tree...they apologize!! they always have a way out & the bigot's on here who hold dear to every word they spew...just go along!! what mindless followers!

Ill say it again; "there is no greater authority in the air(or on the ground) when performing tree work on my site....than ME!!" 

bigshea13....one of the biggest idiots is the guy writing the articles for the TCIA opposing things he has probably never done, at least these Ax-Men are out there doing it.......idiots????? Nah, just hard working guys trying to make a living happier than he!! their getting TV time!! atleast they didnt put the PPE on for TV they held true to how they really work(maybe not smart) but it is what it is!!


LXT...........


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## slowp (Mar 11, 2008)

Gologit said:


> Absolutely right about blaming the fallers for everything...'twas ever thus.
> 
> And log truck drivers don't "gossip". Girls gossip. Log truck drivers trade information. Also supposition, rumor, innuendo, and just plain old bald face lies. But never gossip.
> 
> But, please, be quiet about the donuts...there's only so many to go around and since the FS people never show up until after eight o'clock in the morning(the middle of the day for us) there aren't any donuts left for them. And we feel soooooo bad about that. We tried leaving the empty box with a few crumbs in it on the ticket stump at the landing but a chaser poured water in the box and ate it for breakfast. He said the cardboard was a little chewy but it cured the loose bowels he'd been having.



I'm glad I don't work around you guys. I get offered donuts all the time! Since we don't have any bakeries around here, they are the hostess kind. For some reason donettos seem to be the rage. Having to constantly fight the circumferential challenge, I have to turn them down. But I got a ride back up the hill in a log truck. The driver also was the owner of the logging side. He'd had to take over the truck driving after their driver quit. Prior to that, he'd been climbing and rigging up trees, etc. He had the box of donettos up on the dash and was complaining about putting on weight since taking up driving.
That box of donuts is definitely the dashboard ornament of the truckers. 
Guys "trade information" a lot more than any group of women I've been around. And, being late middle aged, and way past my prime, I am not noticed and hear stuff that I can't believe. I tell my friends because it is pretty entertaining listening in on the world of guys.


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## Justice (Mar 11, 2008)

I would be interested with all the talk of "millions" and "green gold", how much the employees actually make. It didn't look like they were pulling in "thousands" or even "hundreds" per day.


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## greenmm (Mar 11, 2008)

Most employees get an hourly rate, and 20 bucks is damn good! Faller are different! Varies from hourly rate to daywage, to piecework!


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## HolmenTree (Mar 11, 2008)

Justice said:


> I would be interested with all the talk of "millions" and "green gold", how much the employees actually make. It didn't look like they were pulling in "thousands" or even "hundreds" per day.



West coast timber fallers make pretty good coin especially if their unionized[IWA]. All I know is back in the late 1970s they were averaging $300-$500 for a 6 1/2 hour day.They worked on a piecework basis. Their only expenses were work clothes, boots and their saw.The company often supplied the fuel oil files hardhats and gloves.Plus all the benifits like dental,stat holiday pay,pension,paid holidays up to 8 weeks per year after 20 years service, etc.They even rode the company crummy[bus] to the job site.It may seem like a short day but with the conditions they have to work in day in, day out 5 days a week for years and stay healthy puts them on top of the woodcutting totem pole in my opinion.
Back in the 70s,80s &90s I had all the above except I felled in central Canada.our timber was smaller and the ground was flat,and we worked 8 hrs a day. We always got the IWA newsletters at our camps so we knew what was going on from the coast ..We were shut down in rain and -40 below weather ,on the west coast they were shut down for snow and wind.


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## tree MDS (Mar 11, 2008)

lxt said:


> Absolutely!! On here we always hear safety, PPE, wrong, wrong, Id done this or id done that!!! Ive worked for the big companies & let me tell ya, SAFETY isnt always a concern....for me YES!! for them NO.
> 
> We always hear spikeless trims, etc..etc... funny how even the industry authorities TCIA & ISA mess up when writing articles or taking pictures, if they quote wrong or misprint they write a retraction!! If they take a picture of someone doing something like spiking a live tree...they apologize!! they always have a way out & the bigot's on here who hold dear to every word they spew...just go along!! what mindless followers!
> 
> ...


There is alot more to actually being safe than just looking the part- alot more than a piece of plastic strapped on your head and some chaps. I've addmitted other personal "flaws" on this site so why not another : when I go to drop a real big tree and its harry, I take off (assuming its not got deadwood thats likely to clober me) my hard hat- I Just like to see whats going on around me, and no ear muffs either I want all my senses about me and its kinda nice to hear your hinge start to break as well as see it, as sometimes you hear it first. Not necissarilly a practice I'd teach a beginer but it actually makes me feel safer. Maybe its years of not wearing that stuff that makes me feel this way.


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## lxt (Mar 12, 2008)

tree MDS, no quarrel with that, to me safety in some ways is a personal thing. Its what personally provides you the individual with the ability to avoid or safegaurd yourself from injury or worse!!

I think we all do certain things that by the book would be considered unsafe, if its cold & rainy...there are times I take my glasses off!! Im the same with ear protection.....I like to hear people yelling if something is about to/or did go wrong!!

whatever action someone needs to use to make it home at the end of the day unharmed........thats about as safe as safe gets!!

Take care & Be Safe

LXT.................


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## smokechase II (Mar 12, 2008)

*"Guys "trade information" a lot more"*

I believe that to be incorrect.

I visited Israel and there I saw, on a regular basis, tables of three, four and five nice Jewish Ladies. They would all be talking at once. Occasionally they would rotate out for air and to sip a drink.

Can Log Truckers do that?
Even if they had the technology?

*********************

Cisco:

The series will be made into a DVD/set where for the good of the economy we will all be able to help out.

What would be great here is if one of us would edit it down to just cutting.
To do this right would be a great deal of work. They use a lot of fast moving clips where you don’t quit get to see what happened. So slow mo would be desirable.

It looks as if, despite the artificial and real drama that is getting top billing; there is a good deal of what not to do and what to do.


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## slowp (Mar 12, 2008)

smokechase II said:


> I believe that to be incorrect.
> 
> I visited Israel and there I saw, on a regular basis, tables of three, four and five nice Jewish Ladies. They would all be talking at once. Occasionally they would rotate out for air and to sip a drink.
> 
> ...


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## czar800 (Mar 12, 2008)

*I like the Show.*

For one its a lot better then most tv. Hears the but, it reminded me of ice road truckers in that it makes loggers not look very professional. As did Ice road truckers not make truck drivers look professional and i know that there are Manny professional drivers as there are many professional loggers. Seems that they air the compiling, cursing more unprofessional side of this occupation's.


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## Gologit (Mar 12, 2008)

slowp said:


> [QUOTE
> 
> 
> 
> The log scaler is the Grand Poohbah of Rumor Control. The scaling shack takes in all rumors from the 4 corners of the earth and then sorts and disseminates these rumors. The trucker then carries the new "information" out to the crews in the woods. It is a very efficient operation requiring a few donuts.



ROFL...Absolutely correct. When I want to know what's going to happen, check the validity of the lastest rumor, find out who's starting or stopping a job, check out the cause of the latest wreck, get a good scope on what log prices are going to do, or just get an accurate weather report, I don't go to any of the management types in my company. I check with the guy that runs the scale shack. He knows where to get a good buy on boots, diesel, rigging, and the odds on whether or not the new barmaid at the local watering hole is as talented as she looks.
He not only gets donuts, he gets full fledged meals. Probably hasn't bought his own lunch, or a beer at the tavern, in thirty years. But he's worth it.


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## fireman (Mar 12, 2008)

guys people have to take responsibility for there own actions.In today society its everyone elses fault.no self respect or respect for others.alot times you see it on job sites people parking there cars next to equipment ask them to move or workers free lancing knowing they are not supposed to be doing what they are doing.If I screw up or one of my workers screw up I take responsibility for those actions.alot of people deny there actions step up to the plate and take responsibility.Now on the other hand if employer puts himself at risk that one thing but to put his employ es at risk should be hung to dry. be safe


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## stihlaficionado (Mar 12, 2008)

For the enquiring minds of "middle-class america" the show lived up to its billing IMO. The wife and 16 yr old were amazed that there are folks that risk their lives getting the wood needed for their paper napkins 

The 16 yr old thought the kid(18 yrs) on one of the crews was "a nut" for working such a hard job...:censored: 

While it's true there wasn't much air time given to the falling part, and only a few (2-3 seconds) views of the big husky's/stihl's... The rigging needed to haul the wood was fascinating....It makes the old loggers seem even more super human.

The question is whether or not the show ACCURATELY depicts the life of a logger...something only another logger can truly answer.

mark


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## RiverRat2 (Mar 12, 2008)

Gologit said:


> ROFL...Absolutely correct. When I want to know what's going to happen, check the validity of the lastest rumor, find out who's starting or stopping a job, check out the cause of the latest wreck, get a good scope on what log prices are going to do, or just get an accurate weather report, I don't go to any of the management types in my company. I check with the guy that runs the scale shack. He knows where to get a good buy on boots, diesel, rigging, and the odds on whether or not the new barmaid at the local watering hole is as talented as she looks.
> He not only gets donuts, he gets full fledged meals. Probably hasn't bought his own lunch, or a beer at the tavern, in thirty years. But he's worth it.



LOL!!!! Das a good one!!!! when is it on again??????


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## Gologit (Mar 12, 2008)

stihlaficionado said:


> For the enquiring minds of "middle-class america" the show lived up to its billing IMO. The wife and 16 yr old were amazed that there are folks that risk their lives getting the wood needed for their paper napkins
> 
> The 16 yr old thought the kid(18 yrs) on one of the crews was "a nut" for working such a hard job...:censored:
> 
> ...



The way it showed the working conditions was accurate. Steep ground, lots of slash, the effort involved...all pretty close. I could nit-pick some minor details but they wouldn't mean much to the average guy...kinda like you watching a show about what you do for a living.
Pay particular attention to the the fallers when they show them, and the kids setting chokers. Look at the ground they have to get around on, the brush and rocks and such. That's the way it is. Add the terrain to the fact that you have to hustle to get it done and imagine what you'd feel like by the end of the day. Add a little, or a lot, of rain,wind, and mud in the mix.
I know that a lot of people on AS would like to see more saws but the way the show presented them was realistic. I'd like to see more saws too, since that's the end of the business I've spent the most time on. The chainsaw is just a small part of the overall business of getting logs down the 
hill, though. They're great for cutting but not worth a damn for skidding, loading, or hauling. 
Watch the guys on the blow-down sale. That's timber with no lay and every chance in world of coming down the hill at you...nasty stuff.
I think that, as the show progresses, we'll see more variety...I hope so anyway.
I'd like to see a helicopter side. Most people have never seen that since they usually work so far back in the brush. An S64 or one of Columbia's 107s
are pretty impressive and they can move a lot of wood.
Hope I answered your question.  Bob


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## Joggerjack (Mar 12, 2008)

I heard that out west they use blimps to haul wood out of particularly difficult areas. That's some shizzle. 

As for the reason these guys out west have such long bars is that every so often they come upon a tree 9 feet in diameter and don't want to have to find a scrench, take off the bar, grab the long bar from the truck 1/2 mile away, oh shizz somebody dropped a log on it it's bent, go find another one, then go find the long chain.....oh here it is but the idiot who used it last got some dirt on it and forgot to sharpen it. I guess it's easier just to have the long bar on all the time. Back east we just don't have any 9 foot trees. About 5 foot is tops (Sycamore, cottonwood gets that big, yellow tulip wood that big too) but not 9 feet!


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## slowp (Mar 12, 2008)

Hyzer Creek said:


> I heard that out west they use blimps to haul wood out of particularly difficult areas. That's some shizzle.
> 
> As for the reason these guys out west have such long bars is that every so often they come upon a tree 9 feet in diameter and don't want to have to find a scrench, take off the bar, grab the long bar from the truck 1/2 mile away, oh shizz somebody dropped a log on it it's bent, go find another one, then go find the long chain.....oh here it is but the idiot who used it last got some dirt on it and forgot to sharpen it. I guess it's easier just to have the long bar on all the time. Back east we just don't have any 9 foot trees. About 5 foot is tops (Sycamore, cottonwood gets that big, yellow tulip wood that big too) but not 9 feet!



No, there was a balloon rigged system they used over on the Olympic area. I never saw it so I can't explain it. The balloon was used for lifting the lines I think. The blimp you may be referring to is a tragic story. The USFS was trying to develop a Heliostat. It was a blimp powered by 4 helicopters that were attached to the blimp and controlled it. During the tryout, it crashed and killed a couple of people. This was around 1984. The project was scrapped. 

I'm more into yarding and can say that except for all the swinging of guys on lines, and the helicopter layout, and the rope used instead of haywire, it was pretty much right on. Downright accurate in saying a crew was shorthanded and having the chaser head down. I get called in when there's a problem and extra trees need cutting or there's an area that can't be reached. I'm hoping they'll show you guys multi-span, which is done quite a bit up here to keep from building roads. I hate having to follow a young hooktender, who is like a gazelle in the brush, jumping from log to log....and here I come stumbling around behind. The hooktender has time for a smoke while I flounder after him. My favorite common injury NOT!--getting stobbed in the leg. Hopefully, when one loses balance in the brush, one lands on the softer slash and not on the logs!  

I did notice during my choker setting lesson last summer, that the more I scampered with the chokers, the balance improved and the body loosened up.
The guy I was helping out said the time sure passed quicker too. But I left my lunch and water up on the road so had to head up. The rigging guys and cutters are all working with forces (physics). Good choker setters can hook a log on and figure how hard it can hit a standing tree without damaging the bark on the standing tree. Definitely requires skill, especially in a partial cut.


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## oldsaw (Mar 12, 2008)

RiverRat2 said:


> Good one Mark!!!!!
> 
> 
> Nope,,,,,, No hotel!!!! I camped out with Dean a few days under the shadow of Mt. St. Helen!!!!!!!!! and He helped me build a new 044/046 OEM hotrod!!!!! that absolutley freaking rocks,,, then I Hung out with Andy a couple of days ,,,,,, and My Ex BIL(we stihl talk) is a detective w/Seattle PD
> ...



Good enough for me... 

Mark


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## Joggerjack (Mar 12, 2008)

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, set eiusmod tempor incidunt et labore et dolore magna aliquam. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exerc. Irure dolor in reprehend incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse molestaie cillum. Tia non ob ea soluad incom dereud facilis est er expedit distinct. Nam liber te conscient to factor tum poen legum odioque civiuda et tam. Neque pecun modut est neque nonor et imper ned libidig met, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed ut labore et dolore magna aliquam is nostrud exercitation ullam mmodo consequet. Duis aute in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur.


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## smokechase II (Mar 12, 2008)

*OK I was ready for that*

*"There's two rigging guys who have worked together for eons. They come as a pair, I believe, when hired. They'll be talking at the same time and understanding each other! Nobody else does, but they do. It is kind of eerie. Like they have mind melded or something. Truck drivers have contact with log scalers. The log scaler is the Grand Poohbah of Rumor Control. The scaling shack takes in all rumors from the 4 corners of the earth and then sorts and disseminates these rumors. The trucker then carries the new "information" out to the crews in the woods. It is a very efficient operation requiring a few donuts."*

You always need to keep a card up your sleeve just in case.

Working with Corrections Officers I have come to understand that the greatest rumor control system in Human History is in our prison systems. The Inmates readily admit this and are proud of their expertise. Every Officer has some sort of story about working in one end of a Cell Block, doing something else for 30 - 60 minutes and finding an accurate rumor has beaten him/her to the other end of a neighboring cell block. This could be during a lock down.

A for instance was the Corrections Officer that got canned a couple years ago. One of the Inmates recognized her as a former stripper from the Portland area. A select group of Inmates in the camp knew of her work history, including specifics of her act, and that she preferred Hispanic guys. A Hispanic Inmate utilized this information and had a very successful relationship, (they played hide the sausage), with the Officer at the same time she was having an affair with another Corrections Officer. This was complicated by her providing drugs, (tobacco and possibly other contraband), to the Inmates - possibly to help keep things 'secret'. 
I found out about all of this after the fact.

Now I tell you of this information is power rumor mill story just to illustrate a tangled web inside the bars.

Of course I would never spread a rumor myself.


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## 2dogs (Mar 12, 2008)

smokechase II said:


> *"There's two rigging guys who have worked together for eons. They come as a pair, I believe, when hired. They'll be talking at the same time and understanding each other! Nobody else does, but they do. It is kind of eerie. Like they have mind melded or something. Truck drivers have contact with log scalers. The log scaler is the Grand Poohbah of Rumor Control. The scaling shack takes in all rumors from the 4 corners of the earth and then sorts and disseminates these rumors. The trucker then carries the new "information" out to the crews in the woods. It is a very efficient operation requiring a few donuts."*
> 
> You always need to keep a card up your sleeve just in case.
> 
> ...



I think that was the most bizzare post I have read on AS. Well in the chainsaw forum anyway.


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## slowp (Mar 12, 2008)

Hyzer Creek said:


> Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, set eiusmod tempor incidunt et labore et dolore magna aliquam. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exerc. Irure dolor in reprehend incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse molestaie cillum. Tia non ob ea soluad incom dereud facilis est er expedit distinct. Nam liber te conscient to factor tum poen legum odioque civiuda et tam. Neque pecun modut est neque nonor et imper ned libidig met, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed ut labore et dolore magna aliquam is nostrud exercitation ullam mmodo consequet. Duis aute in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur.



Translation? Lorem has a pain in the amet and is stuck up. The work incident is a pain in the big aliquam. You enimaed something about minimal blood and it was a savage pain and labor on the commode. Your digestive system erupted. Auntie was not able to find an easy or distinct cause. Nam read and thought to make a legume civilized hat. Nothing was easy nor lovely. and then you are repeating yourself. Pretty good eh? I took Espanol. Jes suis les formage. Time for Benadryll.


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## Joggerjack (Mar 12, 2008)

It's Latin dude. Roman.


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## 2dogs (Mar 12, 2008)

Hyzer Creek said:


> It's Latin dude. Roman.




That's Ms Dude to you.


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## ciscoguy01 (Mar 12, 2008)

*Peeps*

So does anyone from here know anyone from the show??? That's my big question...

opcorn:


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## windthrown (Mar 13, 2008)

ciscoguy01 said:


> So does anyone from here know anyone from the show??? That's my big question...
> 
> opcorn:



I met two of them at a party about 6 months ago up in Vernonia. I guess they are all celbs up there now???


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## smokechase II (Mar 13, 2008)

*Not a celb until eBay says so*

This is the only Ax Men item on eBay so far:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Two-Playful-Men...egoryZ48QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


Bidding ends at Mar-13-08 14:18:31 PDT


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## Tzed250 (Mar 13, 2008)

That was wrong Smoke...:greenchainsaw:


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## slowp (Mar 13, 2008)

Hyzer Creek said:


> It's Latin dude. Roman.



French, Italian, Spanish all have latin roots. I figured that one out. They are all called Romance Languages because of their origination. I learned that in high school...Now, try Gaelic if you want a real challenge.

An interesting result of working with people who often mumble because they have chew in their mouths. When my dad had a stroke, I was the only one in the family who could understand him when he talked. My sister took me aside and asked how in the heck did I know what he was saying. I answered that a lot of the loggers spoke that way normally.


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## smokechase II (Mar 13, 2008)

*I am a bad person*

*"That was wrong Smoke....."*

Lord, I pologize fer dat der link.
Just a status check of all the manly Lumberjack gaydars.

==================

It did get me to wondering.
I searched eBay for just Gay.
Over 6,000 items.



Back to Ax Men.


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## smokechase II (Mar 13, 2008)

*Mirror image*

*"An interesting result of working with people who often mumble because they have chew in their mouths. When my dad had a stroke, I was the only one in the family who could understand him when he talked. My sister took me aside and asked how in the heck did I know what he was saying. I answered that a lot of the loggers spoke that way normally."*

Another nice touch is that they both dribble stuff out of the corners of their mouth. Since chewing is more revolting than a stroke persons spit, there is no problem with being grossed out.


Relax every one. I had Bells Palsy fairly bad 5 years ago. 

At least I could understand myself.

*********************

{I always offer chewers food just after they put a pinch in. That way I present the illusion that I'm a good person and get to keep the grits.}


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## smokechase II (Mar 13, 2008)

*Languages*

SlowP speaks English, conversational spanish, can translate other romance languages and chew.

*****************

Do I speak chew?

No low slabloo, (downward head motion and) splot. 
{Followed by a knowing stare.}


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## Gologit (Mar 13, 2008)

smokechase II said:


> *"That was wrong Smoke....."*
> 
> Lord, I pologize fer dat der link.
> Just a status check of all the manly Lumberjack gaydars.
> ...



 Ya know, Smoke, when you put up a link I just kind of automatically follow it 'cause you've always got good information and interesting things to talk about. I'm rethinking that.

I may have to start using a bit of caution now, though. That was mean, Smoke, just plain mean. Funny...but mean.  Bob


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## 2dogs (Mar 13, 2008)

ciscoguy01 said:


> So does anyone from here know anyone from the show??? That's my big question...
> 
> opcorn:



I mentioned it before but the lady from stump branch posts in the forestry and logging forum.

The entire first season is on sale for $40.00 American on the History Channel website. It will be delivered in August.
http://www.history.com/minisite.do?...t_type_id=57898&display_order=1&mini_id=57876


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## smokechase II (Mar 13, 2008)

*That was mean, just plain mean.*

Here is what real mean is.

You might want to not read this if there is any chance of backsliding by a practical joker who suffers from an occasional mean streak.

*******************

RW, who is now a DA, and SC, who is now a small small town Police Chief got together and made a plan.

On a trip to the Jump Base at Redding one of them acquired a male homosexual magazine. (Redding has a seedy side; I don't think it was hard.)

Step 1: Back at Redmond they took the cover off a put a Hustler cover on it.
Step 2: They put this piece of evil genius in stall #1 of the downstairs male bathroom and let nature take its course.

********************

For a few days this scenario repeated itself.
A howl of male anguish from Stall #1.
A bunch of other guys who had been had rush in with Shhhhhhh! Quiet, do you want to be the last one?

*******************

At no time should anyone here ever do such a thing. Either at their workplace, just before retirement or any other work place that they don't care for.

Perish the thought.


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## Saw Bones (Mar 14, 2008)

*Recording.*



teacherman said:


> I don't have cable TV. Do you think it might go online, or might a recording be available?



The History Channel will have a recording available I am sure. You may have to wait until the series has gone on for a while, or they may have them now.


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## jefferyc22 (Mar 14, 2008)

smokechase II said:


> What about the helicopter not having a cut away feature for the cable hook-up?
> 
> FAA anyone?
> 
> ...



Uh........thats what the red thingy is people


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## AllCape (Mar 16, 2008)

Such a sweet show... I wish I lived in the west sometimes. Being on the east coast, closest thing I get to logging is a lot clear...


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## AllCape (Mar 16, 2008)

capetrees said:


> No way OSHA could regulate that industry. Too many variables.



That and the fact that if the keep the crews small enough, OSHA doesn't even has jurisdiction over them. I beleive the limit is ten...


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## stihlfarmer (Mar 16, 2008)

on agin right now new episode


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## AngelofDarkness (Mar 16, 2008)

Anybody else going to be in the live chat with Jesse Browning?


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## JT78 (Mar 17, 2008)

I was happy to see some felling in this episode all I can say is hats off to Jay Browning the man only has one hand and can still drop trees like a pro. The second episode was better than the first but the show mainly revolves around getting the trees to the landing not much chainsaw use as of yet so maybe later in the show.


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## johnny27 (Mar 17, 2008)

*Ax Men*

let the comments of the HISTORY CHANNEL show come pouring in,i myself likes it alot, what are your thoughts????


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## johnny27 (Mar 17, 2008)

yeah i was a little behind , i was telling my wife i would do this job in a heart beat just becuz of the love of the whole buisness and when my dad worked for weyhauser back in the day, #### i would take a intern ship for free labor
(GREENHORN) just to be in the outdoors again in the great PNW... i will never let home go again, john


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## parrisw (Mar 17, 2008)

Ya know there are already like 10 threads on this?? But ya I do like it allot.


A new one was just started a few minutes ago but it's been merged into this one!
Dan


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## blsnelling (Mar 17, 2008)

I think what's going to disappoint a lot of us is that this show is not necessarily much about chainsaws or their use, but about tree harvesting. 

It's surprising to see the owner of a multi-million dollar logging company still falling his own trees. Very little was shown though of the tree falling. It was nothing more than preperation to bring the crew in to harvest the logs. It still makes for an interesting show though.


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## parrisw (Mar 17, 2008)

TreeCo said:


> What did you expect, a bunch of internet chainsaw geeks? LOL!



Ya!!!!!!!!!

I think we should all get together and make our own show!!!!


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## blsnelling (Mar 17, 2008)

I want to see some giant Redwoods hit the deck and all the work involved in getting it done. I'd love to see how jacks are used. I don't think spring boards are used much any more but I'd find that interesting as well.


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## PB (Mar 17, 2008)

parrisw said:


> Ya!!!!!!!!!
> 
> I think we should all get together and make our own show!!!!



I have a feeling we would need a lot of insurance and even more beer. It would be entertaining for sure.


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## parrisw (Mar 17, 2008)

PlantBiologist said:


> I have a feeling we would need a lot of insurance and even more beer. It would be entertaining for sure.



Entertaining - YES
BEER -YES
Insurance?????????????? 

Why would you need insurance when running saws and drinking loads of beer?


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## PB (Mar 17, 2008)

parrisw said:


> Entertaining - YES
> BEER -YES
> Insurance??????????????
> 
> Why would you need insurance when running saws and drinking loads of beer?



I wonder if you can modify a saw helmet to hold beer cans?


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## parrisw (Mar 17, 2008)

PlantBiologist said:


> I wonder if you can modify a saw helmet to hold beer cans?



Sure you could haven't you ever seen those hard hats, that hold 2 beer cans??? with straws going down to your mouth. Geeze where have you been.


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## PB (Mar 17, 2008)

parrisw said:


> Sure you could haven't you ever seen those hard hats, that hold 2 beer cans??? with straws going down to your mouth. Geeze where have you been.



That's what I am talking about, just with the face shield and earmuffs. Don't want to skip on the safety, that would be down right dangerous.


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## parrisw (Mar 17, 2008)

PlantBiologist said:


> That's what I am talking about, just with the face shield and earmuffs. Don't want to skip on the safety, that would be down right dangerous.



Ya, I hear ya. Safety first!!!!


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## turnkey4099 (Mar 17, 2008)

I suckered today. Checked the sched on the History Channel this morning, on 4 times, last at 10 and 11 pm. Waited to 10 only to find it is the same one from last week. Waiting now for 11 which looks like the new one per the blurb. Bad part is that wipes out all local news for tonight.

Hoping for a good show at 11.

Harry K


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## windthrown (Mar 17, 2008)

Local news? I never watch that unless there is a hurricane or something. I watched the AxMen from 11-12pm. Mostly cable yarding, which up until recently I could watch from a dozen places around here. Amusing too that they have some synthsized competition between the crews, which for the most part have nothing to do with each other. 

Around here logging crews are pretty laid back. If the equipment is down for a day, its down for a day. Shrug it off and go have a beer. Of course now, few crews are working around here, and times are getting pretty tough.


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## Kogafortwo (Mar 17, 2008)

*more falling and more saws*

Yeah, I also wish they had more tree falling and saw work. I was impressed last night with that perfect plunge cut where the tree went over and snapped about 6" of bark right at the bark side of the backcut.

I also liked the one-handed guy's technique of setting up a tree to fall, then knocking another tree into it to take them both down.

Maybe this is routine stuff for you PNW-ers, but us weekend tree-warriors get pretty impressed by all that.

Anyway, Axmen is a perfect ending to a weekend of buying new workboots with some of my landscaper $$$ and taking my boy to a hockey game. We actually have minor league pro hockey here in the South, believe it or not.


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## slowp (Mar 17, 2008)

ButchSearles said:


> We don't use cables and yarders around here. It looks like this show is going to be about the same few crews every week, they aren't going into the logging of other places like the Big Thicket of Texas or the huge logging operations in places like Georgia or up here in NY. My father was a logger and I grew up logging, did it for 20 years, not working now since Ticonderoga paper stopped buying hemlock (summer wood, and I refuse to work snow season). I can tell you, the type of logging on on this show has nothing to do with logging around here. We don't use cables and this is the first time I ever heard the word "yarder" in my life of saw anything like that. Where are the skidders and logging trails?
> 
> Butch



They're down on the flat ground, what little exists and waiting for it to dry out. Use a skidder out here in the Winter, Spring, late Fall and you'll have ruts *at least *half way up the tires. It isn't cool, with all the fish issues, to do that anymore. We get enough grief when a spur road has to be put in. Cable yarding is a lot easier on the ground and can go in pretty much any weather except too dry when it gets shut down for fire danger. The ground on the coast doesn't freeze or if it does for long enough to log in the winter. So, it is helicopter or cable and guess which one is usually cheaper? The show is hitting pretty much right on, carriage breakdowns are the most common breakdown. Did everybody notice the duck tape? The only strange thing I noticed, and they may have their reason, is that the hooktender will usually rig the tail tree up while he's still up there after topping it. Looked like they had somebody top it and then they went back to rig it. 

The competition aspect kind of ruins it. There's no way they could ever have a legit competition on loads with the difference they have in equipment. That is a pretty stupid part of the show. The mentioning of "the season". I'm thinkiing they mean the time allowed on that particular timber sale. *If *the market was good, these guys would have jobs lined up to go to after they logged here. Can't afford to let that equipment sit idle for very long. 

Using another tree to drive or knock over another tree is common out here. Using a tree jack in that size timber would be odd. Notice they are not having to buck the trees much, if at all down in the brush. Here, they'd be bucking the logs up prior to yarding. We like the slash to get left out in the unit so it'll break down and make nutrients. opcorn:

Day 14 and still horkin'. Nobody to play with cuz they're all sick.


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## rmihalek (Mar 17, 2008)

It was interesting to see Jay Browning describe how he lost most of his hand. He showed a big block that I guess they run a large cable through and somehow he was still holding the cable as it got pulled through the block and it just pulled his hand off (the thumb is still there). 

Still, he's a master with the chainsaw even though he needs to use a claw to hold the top grip. He did a triple falling with having two trees set up with notches and then dropped a third tree right onto the two and they all fell right where he wanted them to.

They also showed a nice drop by the 30 year veteran faller (anyone catch his name?) who did a plunge-cut behind the notch and then sawed backwards. The tree fell and just pulled a little tab of wood off the back side.

I agree that the "competition" thing they have going where the show's producers tally up the number of loads is pretty fake. There are crews all over those hills doing the same thing and I don't think they are in a race with each other.

However, it's amazing that the Browning crew got 64 loads whereas the other guys couldn't even do 20.


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## smokechase II (Mar 17, 2008)

*Falling*

We got more falling.
Show is not the technique discussion we wanted but its getting better.

That Jay Browning might be the class of the show.

Although I noticed he was:
1) Walking away from trees he just cut, that were going to be dominoes, without glancing back.
and
2) He didn't look at all as the last tree of the domino group came over. It was separate from the main group and you never know.

His artificial hand being used to tap a wedge was an absolute classic.
Plus he was taking good care of that equipmant by wrapping it with some electrical tape.

Refusing the workmans comp checks.

Independent Oregon Loggers can be classics.
That was why Kesey wrote about them.

**********************

Regardless of us armchair evaluators sitting in a living room watching this being so picky about artificial competition and a few safety issues, you have to admit these guys can run a saw.

The cutters look smooth.

************************

They replay that buck where the log jumps with real power a lot.

Anyone want a short bar in that world now?


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## nepmgmt (Mar 17, 2008)

*AX men*

anyone been watching that new show it is pretty cool. it is on Sundays at 10 i would def recommend watching it they shaw sow pritty cool equipment and the ways that they log.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 17, 2008)

How many of you would make a guy gaff up a spar with tape holding the gaff on?

Geez Louise! At least they could have duct taped it around his ankle! 

I could do most everything I've seen there better, except run the chokers. Well, yarder/Yoader operations too but I've not been all that impressed so far.


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## HUSKYMAN (Mar 17, 2008)

Mostly Husky's last night, and a JohnnyRed (2186?) last night. 

Of course the 460 Stihl is so smooth you can run it with one hand...


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## HUSKYMAN (Mar 17, 2008)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> How many of you would make a guy gaff up a spar with tape holding the gaff on?
> 
> Geez Louise! At least they could have duct taped it around his ankle!
> 
> I could do most everything I've seen there better, except run the chokers. Well, yarder/Yoader operations too but I've not been all that impressed so far.



Yeah that tape job was a complete joke. Dont be so cheap, and get some duct tape man. 

AS far as that chokers job, they can have it. I would kill myself running and jumping around on small logs like that.


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## PB (Mar 17, 2008)

HUSKYMAN said:


> Mostly Husky's last night, and a JohnnyRed (2186?) last night.
> 
> Of course the 460 Stihl is so smooth you can run it with one hand...



Thought it might have been an old Dolmar or gray top Husky.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 17, 2008)

rmihalek said:


> I agree that the "competition" thing they have going where the show's producers tally up the number of loads is pretty fake. There are crews all over those hills doing the same thing and I don't think they are in a race with each other.



On several shots you can see another carriage off in the distance. So much of it is overblown.

I did like the one where "sparky" saw the fuel cap fall off earlier in the day and did not say anything till they ran out of diesel :O


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## smokechase II (Mar 17, 2008)

*Get yer will in order*

Picture being on the filming crew.

You don't know much about Hi Lead Logging.

But you do do understand duct tape and gas caps.

******************

Now do you feel comfortable going down over the hillside with these guys?


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## OLD CHIPMONK (Mar 17, 2008)

Watched " AXE MEN " for the 1st. time last night. Best described as CHILLING, DANGEROUS, LIFE THREATNING & AWAKENING . The opening back injury. Tape up the broken strap of right spur to make a 40 ft. climb. Looked as though the young logger was doing his 1st. climb ever. The next injury, his dad falling in a hole & wrenching his knee. The setting of the high-line by helicopter. The guy almost had his leg ripped off during this operation. The helicopter & cable becoming tangled in the top of the tree ( lucky they got free). Driving of the wedge w/ artificial limb, to fell the tree. I enjoyed the show,but think they should have edited a lot of the action.


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## AngelofDarkness (Mar 17, 2008)

OLD CHIPMONK said:


> I enjoyed the show,but think they should have edited a lot of the action.



WHAAAAAAA! Thats the best part! The guy standing by the cable being unspooled by the helicopter was freaking nuts!


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## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 17, 2008)

AngelofDarkness said:


> WHAAAAAAA! Thats the best part! The guy standing by the cable being unspooled by the helicopter was freaking nuts!



Walking up to it to flake a loop out was insane!


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## M.D. Vaden (Mar 17, 2008)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> Walking up to it to flake a loop out was insane!



I keep hearing something on the show a lot that sounds like "safety first". But I'm not sure how much safety can come first, unless companies like that are willing to slow down the pace of the operation more.

Safe work conditions often require a slow pace with precise and deliberate movements. Some of these workers are moving from place to place sometimes, it looks like they are exceeding their natural ability to remain safe.

An ad for the show just ran this moment.

It's main points were the loss of part of a hand, almost had a face ripped off, danger, etc..

So if History Channel filmed and edited to meet expectations people have from the ads, it seems they might be getting selective about the danger elements, and skipping plenty of technical aspects.

Last night, some point in the show introduced that 1 logger in 1000 dies from logging - did I hear that right?

Seems then, that the likelihood of serious injury is somewhat likely. And the likelihood of injury in general, would be alarming.

Anyone know what the death or injury rate is among the loggers that are using those mechanized machines that walk like a spider? Or the ones that grab complete trees, strip the trunk and cut it with the giant chainsaw near the grabbing device?


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## CLEARVIEW TREE (Mar 17, 2008)

The guy that spiked up that tree at a snails pace had no place doin it in the first place. It should have been someone who was versed in that element. Really there should've been a second TIP for him too ya know man. And last, the guy that put him up to it using faulty equip should be let go, he could've gotten really hurt slidin down 70 ft at about 60mph on his forearms! I still think that arborists have the ruff work, even though we make it fun! You don't see any loggers speed linin over houses ya know.:monkey:

What if that rt gaff would've kicked loose and went thru the calf on his left leg? He couldn't have got down and unless they had another set of spikes(they didn't or they would've used em in the first place) no one would've been able to reach him and render a tourniquet and blood stopper and try to get him down.


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## OLD CHIPMONK (Mar 17, 2008)

I sure hope OSHA or our insuranca agent was't watching. They'll think we work the same way & be raising our rates !!!!


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## windthrown (Mar 17, 2008)

Yah, I shook my head at the guy with the broken buckle in his spikes. I have a set like that. You would think that they would have more than one set of spikes handy on a crew like that though? Seems that the one team prides themselves on breaking stuff, and/or using broken and limited equipment. 

I was amused also with the domino tree falling that the guy with one hand did. He cut and left a leaner, and then cut and left what seemed to be the tree it was leaning onto... and then cut a third tree to knock the other two down with. Eeeeeeeeee.... maybe he was TV audience happy or something, showing off? Or it was really staged, and there was more going on than they showed there on TV. Or maybe they are goading these guys into taking more risks than they otherwise would, to get the TV shots. 

Seems that the main reason for injury so far on the show is stepping into holes in the ground. One back and one knee injury so far that way.


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## OLD CHIPMONK (Mar 17, 2008)

Did you ever wonder what they did EDIT OUT ???


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## windthrown (Mar 17, 2008)

They should edit the swear words out with cable yarding whistles.  

As for what they removed from the show, who knows. Gobs of dull stuff probably. Seems they are focused on the yarding. I would like to see them to follow a trucker off the hill, and maybe a log through the mill and onto a store shelf, and see a sawyer really do a good tree drop or twelve, and see a spar tree topped, notched and set up *correctly*. Watching people jury rig tools and equipment just goes against the grain. Bubba forgetting to put the gas cap on the gas tank in the skyline carraige is just too... common!


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## turnkey4099 (Mar 18, 2008)

C'mon people. This is a TV show. I will lay odds that all those incidents, including the gas cap one, were staged and were not part of the operation at all. Yes, it does illustrate the rediculous things that can, and do, happen but...

My money is on: 

Director: We need a scene with a carriage failure:

Logger - well, we had a fuel cap fall of once and...

Director: Perfect! Let's do it!

Harry K


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## smokechase II (Mar 18, 2008)

*Hearing protection*

If all the profanity were whistle blocked AxMen would need to be a special pay per view where hearing protection was provided.

****************

With regard to the staging of screw ups.
I don't believe that is necessary.

All you have to do is follow the Gypo outfits that pay the least and have, say, WWII tanks on the landing.

It sure looks like there will be a difference in income for those that don't have back-up equipment, (a set of spurs perhaps), on-site.


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## bendtrees (Mar 18, 2008)

Smoke, 
I wasn't able to find the limbing video. I did find this cool safety logger (attached). 

Been watching a lot of U-tube vids lately of BC fallers. Kinda a nice contrast to axe men. Clearly shows where Canadian priorities lie in terms of safety. I'm not saying right or wrong. The argument can easily be made that WC loggers in the states are so independent of safety oversight that they will maintain more individual vigilance as opposed to doing what "Rulebook Roger" says. 

Does anyone know what the card attached to BC fallers vests is all about? Looks like an annoyance. -- A log chart?


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## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 18, 2008)

With the redcross it could be firstaid kit


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## smokechase II (Mar 19, 2008)

*Nope*

I'm sorry. but mandating that outfit would shut down the logging industry in Oregon.

{Don't forward that thought to any 'huggers'.}

*********************

I totally agree that Oregon needs some level of Training / Apprentice / Certifcation program.

My Brother-in-law says it well. (He drives a self loader and can cut fine.) "There is no way any State or Federal Yahoo is going to test me."


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## ciscoguy01 (Mar 19, 2008)

*Trees*

I know I know, I'm talking smack here... BUT... What's the deal with the trees? Those are tiny. I've yet to see a big tree. Those trees are what we cut all the time here. When do they cut BIG timber. We have a plantation of 500 or so acres with 24+inch ponderosa pines. My buddy from oregon told me all the really big ones were protected. Do they actually cut anything bigger than what we're seeing or are those westerners just talkin' smack??? I'm being serious here. I haven't seen them cut one yet thats say 4' dbh. Think anyone will???  opcorn:



 eh?


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## Cedarkerf (Mar 19, 2008)

Yes they do cut bigger there is a log yard near here of 32"+logs for export. Once in awhile ya still see 3-5 log loads but any more very few mills are set up for the big stuff like you have heard all the big public land stuff is locked up.


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## parrisw (Mar 20, 2008)

ciscoguy01 said:


> I know I know, I'm talking smack here... BUT... What's the deal with the trees? Those are tiny. I've yet to see a big tree. Those trees are what we cut all the time here. When do they cut BIG timber. We have a plantation of 500 or so acres with 24+inch ponderosa pines. My buddy from oregon told me all the really big ones were protected. Do they actually cut anything bigger than what we're seeing or are those westerners just talkin' smack??? I'm being serious here. I haven't seen them cut one yet thats say 4' dbh. Think anyone will???  opcorn:
> 
> 
> 
> eh?



Yes they, we do. Im not a logger, Ive seen many huge trees. In that show so far they are only cutting 2nd growth timber.


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## ciscoguy01 (Mar 20, 2008)

*hmph!!!*

Makes no difference. I still would love to go out there to see how they work like that. It's so different from how they things here... Very cool... The climate really makes such a difference there. At 3 or 4000' here the growth size is like alpine tundra... There, at say 7000', the trees are as big as ours at 1000'... Really interesting. Anything in the NE over say 3000' is just brush, NOTHING grows above around 4500' except some grass if your lucky, and most of that is protected... 

opcorn:


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## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 20, 2008)

ciscoguy01 said:


> Makes no difference. I still would love to go out there to see how they work like that. It's so different from how they things here... Very cool... The climate really makes such a difference there. At 3 or 4000' here the growth size is like alpine tundra... There, at say 7000', the trees are as big as ours at 1000'... Really interesting. Anything in the NE over say 3000' is just brush, NOTHING grows above around 4500' except some grass if your lucky, and most of that is protected...
> 
> opcorn:



That is because they are a boreal rainforest, in some cases they have true cloud forests.

the high precipitation and long growing season, and dirth of heavy weather, makes for perfect huge tree conditions. Rog and they other guys from the costal PNW have told me of 90 ft crab apples.


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## Cedarkerf (Mar 20, 2008)

ciscoguy01 said:


> Makes no difference. I still would love to go out there to see how they work like that. It's so different from how they things here... Very cool... The climate really makes such a difference there. At 3 or 4000' here the growth size is like alpine tundra... There, at say 7000', the trees are as big as ours at 1000'... Really interesting. Anything in the NE over say 3000' is just brush, NOTHING grows above around 4500' except some grass if your lucky, and most of that is protected...
> 
> opcorn:


Here in Washington around 4000 ft trees get much smaller due to the snow pack. Skinny little trees above that. Alpine fir and mountain hemlock. Short stubby branches on the firs and hemlocks are very flexible and bend under the snow. 400 - 500 inches of snowfall per year up there. Mount Rainier and Mount Baker both have recorded 1000 inches of snowfall in a season.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 21, 2008)

Cedarkerf said:


> Here in Washington around 4000 ft trees get much smaller due to the snow pack. Skinny little trees above that. Alpine fir and mountain hemlock. Short stubby branches on the firs and hemlocks are very flexible and bend under the snow. 400 - 500 inches of snowfall per year up there. Mount Rainier and Mount Baker both have recorded 1000 inches of snowfall in a season.



Are they predicting big flash floods for this coming melt season?


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## adkranger (Mar 21, 2008)

ciscoguy01 said:


> Makes no difference. I still would love to go out there to see how they work like that. It's so different from how they things here... Very cool... The climate really makes such a difference there. At 3 or 4000' here the growth size is like alpine tundra... There, at say 7000', the trees are as big as ours at 1000'... Really interesting. Anything in the NE over say 3000' is just brush, NOTHING grows above around 4500' except some grass if your lucky, and most of that is protected...
> 
> opcorn:



Our timberline out east is more a function of site than climate. Less soil/duff = less vegetation. The Adk summits receive moisture but do not retain it. Historically many, if not most of the summits were forested (though likely not saw timber) in pre-colonization times. Logging and the catastrophic fires that followed at the turn of the twentieth century changed many of the summits' successional stage for the foreseeable future. A good source of info is the Colvin journals that were written when he surveyed the Adks in late 1800s (a few summits he cleared and burned himself for survey stations).

Though we do not receive anywhere near the moisture that they do out in the PNW.:greenchainsaw:


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## Cedarkerf (Mar 21, 2008)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> Are they predicting big flash floods for this coming melt season?


No mention so far unless we get a big pineapple express it should be a normal gradual melt with a lot of snow retention up high well into june and july.


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## Bigus Termitius (Mar 27, 2008)

Hey Gang,

If you've missed any episodes, or you're starting late, you can catch up by watching early shows here:

http://www.history.com/minisites/axmen

I don't think there is much staging going on. However, the camera's presence has a doubtless effect on the situation.

I'm diggin it.

Oh and stopping picking on the new climber....we all start somewhere.  

yeah, maybe he shouldn't have gone with the bad buckle, but hard to shut down the operation over something like that. Until, something goes bad wrong and then it's 20/20 hindsight. Should've broke out the duct tape.


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## Bigus Termitius (Mar 27, 2008)

I got a kick out of Dwayne's son...Dustin Timber. What a perfect name for a fourth generation logger!

He made some shrewd comments for someone his age.


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## A. Stanton (Mar 27, 2008)

Sorry that I dissed this show so badly earlier in the thread. I'm really enjoying it now. I have a big amount of respect for Old Man Browning. He could be home collecting an SSI check for that mangled left arm. Instead he is out there doing it. You are a man to be admired Mr. Browning. I doubt few people could keep up with you.


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## Bigus Termitius (Mar 27, 2008)

A. Stanton said:


> Sorry that I dissed this show so badly earlier in the thread. I'm really enjoying it now. I have a big amount of respect for Old Man Browning. He could be home collecting an SSI check for that mangled left arm. Instead he is out there doing it. You are a man to be admired Mr. Browning. I doubt few people could keep up with you.



What's better, he sent the checks back. That's rare form integrity.

If I ever got out there, I'd work for him on general principle.


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## Slvrmple72 (Mar 27, 2008)

You have to admire the man's tenacity to continue working despite a disability. I am really enjoying the show but doubt that I will ever be able to look at lumber products with the same indifference.


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## Gologit (Mar 27, 2008)

Slvrmple72 said:


> You have to admire the man's tenacity to continue working despite a disability. I am really enjoying the show but doubt that I will ever be able to look at lumber products with the same indifference.




Don't just look at them...BUY SOME!!! :hmm3grin2orange:


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## windthrown (Mar 27, 2008)

parrisw said:


> Yes they, we do. Im not a logger, Ive seen many huge trees. In that show so far they are only cutting 2nd growth timber.




More like 3rd... or 4th growth. That area has been subject to HUGE fires. When I was a kid is was all burned off up there.


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## Bigus Termitius (Mar 27, 2008)

windthrown said:


> More like 3rd... or 4th growth. That area has been subject to HUGE fires. When I was a kid is was all burned off up there.



I believe the show stated 2nd generation and that is most likely what he is going off of. I'm not saying you're wrong, I've had enough experience around media types to know they rarely get it straight. Self absorbtion disorder or something.


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## ciscoguy01 (Mar 28, 2008)

*True*



Slvrmple72 said:


> You have to admire the man's tenacity to continue working despite a disability. I am really enjoying the show but doubt that I will ever be able to look at lumber products with the same indifference.



Dude, you have no idea about what you just said. I hate to sound like a hater, but if we could get all the trash and lazy people to be like that, america would be a little bit better of a place. Sometimes I think alot of people forgot what it was founded on...

opcorn:


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## M.D. Vaden (Mar 28, 2008)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> That is because they are a boreal rainforest, in some cases they have true cloud forests.
> 
> the high precipitation and long growing season, and dirth of heavy weather, makes for perfect huge tree conditions. Rog and they other guys from the costal PNW have told me of 90 ft crab apples.



Yeah... it's a grand place to enjoy forest here.

North California, Oregon coast range, Mt. Hood National Forest, Olympic National Forest in Washington, and more.

Even the big fallen trees look cool ... log below is just a small one at Oswald West State Park - Oregon Coast.

Same park has some massive Sitka Spruce. It's the only park in Oregon where I've seen Salal (Gualtheria shallon) the groundcover get over head height. Seems I recall seeing some Salal uphill and downhill of Hy. 101 that was 8 or 9 feet tall.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 28, 2008)

M.D. Vaden said:


> Seems I recall seeing some Salal uphill and downhill of Hy. 101 that was 8 or 9 feet tall.



And Miataki too big for wheel barrels


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## summit583guy (Mar 30, 2008)

any canadians out there no what channel Axemen is on? im in ontario and have digital cable and can't find it? I get the history channel but it's not the same one everyone else has, myn always has war and millitary shows on it


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## parrisw (Mar 30, 2008)

summit583guy said:


> any canadians out there no what channel Axemen is on? im in ontario and have digital cable and can't find it? I get the history channel but it's not the same one everyone else has, myn always has war and millitary shows on it



It's not playing in Canada. I've downloaded the first 2 so far.


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## HolmenTree (Mar 30, 2008)

Our History channel here in Canada is called History Channel Canada.[different programing]


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## Bigus Termitius (Mar 31, 2008)

HolmenTree said:


> Our History channel here in Canada is called History Channel Canada.[different programing]



Well....as long as they are teaching the same history (hopefully accurately) I suppose that's ok. opcorn:


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## John Paul Sanborn (Apr 8, 2008)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> With the redcross it could be firstaid kit



I ran it through a translator, Forband is bandage, and I got one hit for "flush" on "Forsta"


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## windthrown (Apr 9, 2008)

Now, here is a laugher... the only one that has it right is the current last post from Alaska. I love all these people living in thier stick frame houses screaming about all the damage done to the forests... especially the idiots in NYC. Now, there is no ecological damage done in NYC, is there? Nooooo... Manhatten Is is in tune with nature, and has a sustainable zero carbon emission footprint  Lets all preserve the PNW forests so that NYC people can look at TV shows and see that they are all OK. They can get their lumber from the Brazilian rain forest. 

http://boards.historychannel.com/thread.jspa?threadID=700028632

More trees around here than there have been in hundreds of years. Trees are renewable. Salmon have been overfished, and are going to be displaced by the asian carp pretty soon from the looks of it. Spotted owl here is being displaced by the barred owl, and has nothing to do with humans. I have seen both around here.


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## (WLL) (Apr 9, 2008)

windthrown said:


> Now, here is a laugher... the only one that has it right is the current last post from Alaska. I love all these people living in thier stick frame houses screaming about all the damage done to the forests... especially the idiots in NYC. Now, there is no ecological damage done in NYC, is there? Nooooo... Manhatten Is is in tune with nature, and has a sustainable zero carbon emission footprint  Lets all preserve the PNW forests so that NYC people can look at TV shows and see that they are all OK. They can get their lumber from the Brazilian rain forest.
> 
> http://boards.historychannel.com/thread.jspa?threadID=700028632
> 
> More trees around here than there have been in hundreds of years. Trees are renewable. Salmon have been overfished, and are going to be displaced by the asian carp pretty soon from the looks of it. Spotted owl here is being displaced by the barred owl, and has nothing to do with humans. I have seen both around here.


some people just boil my blood.


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## 1I'dJak (Apr 9, 2008)

I think a reality show covering the standing stem logging done here in BC would be pretty dramatic...especially if it covered the industry in its birth... bunch of crazy young guys climbing, limbing, and topping big fir and cedar... as stem is left that gets cut up at the base, left standing with a skiff of holding wood and shims, then gets plucked by a big heli... great footage of climbers hammering off tops at 120+cms with their 200t! talked to guys who've blasted off these huge tops... told me how that had to cut windows to get their backcut thru...having to 'cut the guts' out of the holding wood through the undercut...the biggest i cut was about 75 cms diameter with about 60' of top... and that seemed huge... guys have told me about forgetting their wedges, getting pinched out, having to climb down and back up the cut up tree to pound it over...guys doing 40-50' claw shots (swinging from tree to tree using your rappelling line and another line with a grapple)... plus back in the day alot of these guys were drunks and cokeheads... anyways, would be plenty of drama, exciting footage, and workers compensation would probably shut the industry down...


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## thegimp97 (May 3, 2008)

I like the show a lot but maybe that is because i am biased because i know some of the people on the show and have gone hunting and hikeing in the same areas they are logging. 

It is cool to watch a show on tv and see people you went to highschool with. Dwayne Dethlefs also made a tribute to my brother who died a while back, they were friends since highschool and started logging together.


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## Blake22 (May 4, 2008)

I like the way they carry a chainsaw on their shoulder. The other thing is the lack of vines in the woods. Here in North Florida the woods are full of all sorts of vines.


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## windthrown (May 4, 2008)

No lack of vines here, blackberries are everywhere. You just do not see them there on TV. They are part of the underbrush. Also there is poison oak (vine form) clinging to some of the trees, but they, like the blackberries, are dicidous, so they do not have leaves in late fall and winter. Blackberries are a pain in the butt, and have razor sharp thorns. PO causes an allergic-type reaction in most people that come in contact with it. 

In some places here there are ivy vines growing all over doug fir trees. Usually near suburban cuts. There was a lot of cutting around Portland and the suburbs not that long ago (a few years, really). Some parks in Portland have tons of ivy growing on all the trees in them. It is illegal to sell ivy in Oregon now because of it.


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## M.D. Vaden (May 4, 2008)

thegimp97 said:


> I like the show a lot but maybe that is because i am biased because i know some of the people on the show and have gone hunting and hikeing in the same areas they are logging.
> 
> It is cool to watch a show on tv and see people you went to highschool with. Dwayne Dethlefs also made a tribute to my brother who died a while back, they were friends since highschool and started logging together.



Maybe we will cross paths after we move back up the Beaverton in the next week.

I go into the hills in the coast range to explore and collect edible mushrooms - even some of the days I'm driving all the way down to the ocean.

Will probably average a trip per every 2 weeks.


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## Grateful11 (May 15, 2008)

Anyone notice the screwed up video on the last episode? It showed J. Browning with a messed up right hand and his chainsaw had the bar on the wrong side. Somehow in editing it's like they flipped the film like in the old days. It happened right after someone stole his chainsaw and and he was cutting with his back-up. I kept wondering how he was hammering that felling wedge in with right hand.


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## justintimemoto (May 15, 2008)

is it me or is the bar there using on the saw a little big for some of the trees their cutting down


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## Cedarkerf (May 15, 2008)

justintimemoto said:


> is it me or is the bar there using on the saw a little big for some of the trees their cutting down


You wanna stand close to some of those spring loaded logs go ahead use a 20"bar and stand close.


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## Sunrise Guy (May 15, 2008)

I just caught the latest episode after losing interest in the series a while back. Man, they are really making the logging biz look bad! "Reality TV" seems to poison each profession it takes on. Could it be the unreality of it all?


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## Razzaq (May 16, 2008)

hi everybody,

thanks for the info about Aspirantus..

"Capetrees" thanks for the useful links...

keep posting

thanks


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## A. Stanton (May 16, 2008)

After watching this series for some time, I think that Dwayne should get his own show. He is a pisser!


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## Journier (May 16, 2008)

Any of you guys see the episode where the one guy (i forget his name now) left 3000 ft of rope on the side of the road?

then later in the show you see him saying "its not my fault! How could i know that people would steal the rope?"

That guy would be fired so quick, no idea why they kept him on. The show makes him look very .....(trying to be nice here) inexperienced.


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## capetrees (May 18, 2008)

What links razzaq?


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## tree MDS (May 18, 2008)

Allright, I wasnt gonna subscribe to this thread...but, Melvin is the man, "run or die boys, run or die", lol. What a phycho that fat $#@# is, goota love it. He reminds me of a buddy I had, we used to call him "Booze-akula", or"Booze-illa", lol. Same look Melvins got going on.


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## Hugenpoet (May 19, 2008)

tree MDS said:


> Allright, I wasnt gonna subscribe to this thread...but, Melvin is the man, "run or die boys, run or die", lol. What a phycho that fat $#@# is, goota love it. He reminds me of a buddy I had, we used to call him "Booze-akula", or"Booze-illa", lol. Same look Melvins got going on.



That's a look you get stuck with, not one you want to cultivate.


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## pdqdl (May 19, 2008)

Cedarkerf said:


> You wanna stand close to some of those spring loaded logs go ahead use a 20"bar and stand close.



I suspect that it not fear of the trees. It's probably less trouble to tote one big saw up and down a hill to each cut than it is to drag big saw, middle saw, and baby saw with you all day long.

I don't see those guys working too close to the service truck.


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## turnkey4099 (May 20, 2008)

Anyone notice the idiocy...well, it seems like idiocy to me...of that crew trying to yard a huge log up the slope? They kept going on about how heavy it was, overloading the car, might pull the highline loose,...Oh, well, we'll put it in low gear....Say what!! How does shifing gear change the loading on the highline.

Then with all of them standing around, assuming at least one saw for every two people, why didn't at least one of them go:

"saaayyyy...how about we cut that log in half?".

After finally getting it up there, what do they do? Why they *cut it in half* and then find it is hollow and rotten. What, an experienced crew couldn't recognize that down slope?

Final comment made "45 minutes lost..."
Harry K


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## thebiggreenone (May 20, 2008)

I was thinking the exact same thing, the log was hollow on both ends, they had to have seen it as they were cutting it. Why choke and send it up?!


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## A. Stanton (May 20, 2008)

turnkey4099 said:


> Anyone notice the idiocy...well, it seems like idiocy to me...of that crew trying to yard a huge log up the slope? They kept going on about how heavy it was, overloading the car, might pull the highline loose,...Oh, well, we'll put it in low gear....Say what!! How does shifing gear change the loading on the highline.
> 
> Then with all of them standing around, assuming at least one saw for every two people, why didn't at least one of them go:
> 
> ...


I guess I'm a rube; I got caught up in the drama.


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## 24d (Jun 5, 2008)

NEK VT said:


> Yes but the search for this site is worthless.....
> and can not find anything......



I hit search entered axe+men got this page 
clicked on the 6th one from the top and got this page. Search seems OK?


Later


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## Sunrise Guy (Jun 7, 2008)

Caught another episode just now. Man! These guys are dumber than a bag of rocks! I watched 'em try to buck logs, and I am positive that 90% of us, in here, would do a far, far better job than any of them. How these imbeciles make any money at all, in the tree biz, is beyond me. So much profanity, so little work, so little brains! I am certain that many of the scenes being shown are played up for dramatic effect, yet I am also certain that professional logging companies out there are probably just as horrified at what they see on this show, if they even watch it, as I am. I hope this show does not get renewed for another year. There is no way I would ever want to be even remotely identified with any of those morons. I was really looking forward to this show. Too bad it is just another "reality show," with all of the nonsense that goes with that territory.


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## parrisw (Jun 8, 2008)

Sunrise Guy said:


> Caught another episode just now. Man! These guys are dumber than a bag of rocks! I watched 'em try to buck logs, and I am positive that 90% of us, in here, would do a far, far better job than any of them. How these imbeciles make any money at all, in the tree biz, is beyond me. So much profanity, so little work, so little brains! I am certain that many of the scenes being shown are played up for dramatic effect, yet I am also certain that professional logging companies out there are probably just as horrified at what they see on this show, if they even watch it, as I am. I hope this show does not get renewed for another year. There is no way I would ever want to be even remotely identified with any of those morons. I was really looking forward to this show. Too bad it is just another "reality show," with all of the nonsense that goes with that territory.



So true, but the show caters to people unlike us.


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## windthrown (Jun 10, 2008)

I know quite a few loggers up around there and down here, and most of them are a tad smarter than average, but some are as dumb as stumps. Keep in mind that the editors can pretty much make anyone look however they want to, but cutting and leaving in what they want. They can make you look smart or dumb, and funny or stupid. Like the series Survivorman, where they make people look more extreme one way or the other. Lots of footage to go through, you can take one person and just show-him being pissed off all the time, and another guy being a suck-up all the time, and another being bossy all the time. 

Also they seem to be pushing the envelope for the cameras, and dropping trees in weird ways, and tossing yarding equipment in weird ways. The producers want to make it a more exciting show. Also they were working in weather that no one else was working in up there (especially after the hurricane). And under fake pressure for a non-existant 'end of the logging season' (no one keeps a tally of competitor loads hauled in some kind of competition like they post at the end of the show). 60% of that area was laid off half way through the show. Most loggers I know up there were out of work before October, and so were all the mill guys (around Banks). They also make it look like they are in some remote region of Oregon, way out in the boonies, when in fact many of those cutting sites are less than an hour from Portland. Some sites were 10 minutes from where Highway 26 becomes a freeway (just past Banks) and suburbia in Hillsboro.

They shold call it the Yarding Show though. Not much cruising, falling or trucking or milling. Just yarding. And more yarding. Some falling. And more yarding.


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## Sunrise Guy (Jun 10, 2008)

windthrown said:


> I know quite a few loggers up around there and down here, and most of them are a tad smarter than average, but some are as dumb as stumps. Keep in mind that the editors can pretty much make anyone look however they want to, but cutting and leaving in what they want. They can make you look smart or dumb, and funny or stupid. Like the series Survivorman, where they make people look more extreme one way or the other. Lots of footage to go through, you can take one person and just show-him being pissed off all the time, and another guy being a suck-up all the time, and another being bossy all the time.
> 
> Also they seem to be pushing the envelope for the cameras, and dropping trees in weird ways, and tossing yarding equipment in weird ways. The producers want to make it a more exciting show. Also they were working in weather that no one else was working in up there (especially after the hurricane). And under fake pressure for a non-existant 'end of the logging season' (no one keeps a tally of competitor loads hauled in some kind of competition like they post at the end of the show). 60% of that area was laid off half way through the show. Most loggers I know up there were out of work before October, and so were all the mill guys (around Banks). They also make it look like they are in some remote region of Oregon, way out in the boonies, when in fact many of those cutting sites are less than an hour from Portland. Some sites were 10 minutes from where Highway 26 becomes a freeway (just past Banks) and suburbia in Hillsboro.
> 
> They shold call it the Yarding Show though. Not much cruising, falling or trucking or milling. Just yarding. And more yarding. Some falling. And more yarding.



Good post, man, thanks! I had a feeling that they were not that far from towns and/or highways as judged by what I could see during the road-trip sequences. Your post puts an end to any doubts I had along those lines. I do agree that editors can make a given situation "slant" any way they want it to, with a few snips here, and a few snips there. Still, most of the guys seen on the show seem to be not the brightest bulbs in the chandelier, biased editing, notwithstanding.


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## tree MDS (Jun 10, 2008)

I still think Melvin is the man, at least those guys work, thats hard to find these days. Too bad that one guy from his crew is MIA, semed like a good worker, maybe he got caught up in all that fame, lol.


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## windthrown (Jun 11, 2008)

Sunrise Guy said:


> Good post, man, thanks! I had a feeling that they were not that far from towns and/or highways as judged by what I could see during the road-trip sequences. Your post puts an end to any doubts I had along those lines. I do agree that editors can make a given situation "slant" any way they want it to, with a few snips here, and a few snips there. Still, most of the guys seen on the show seem to be not the brightest bulbs in the chandelier, biased editing, notwithstanding.



Well, the map is a joke. They only have Vernonia and Astoria, making it look like a woodland fronteer. Missing are a lot of towns, like Seaside and Cannon Beach at the end of Highway 26 on the Ocean, and the towns along the Columbia River like Longview, Washington, and Portland, the largest city in Oregon. Portland should be a big blob there at the bottom left corner of the map. They also clip the map just above the Hillsboro and Forest Grove. They also do not show the other highways up there, particularly Highway 6 and Highway 53. A lot of the logging on the show was done off of highway 6, and that is closer to Forest Grove and Hillsboro (Portland suburb cities) than Vernonia. 

As for loggers not being the sharpest tools in the drawers, that is probably true. They are mostly HS grads at best, many have dropped out of school before graduating from HS. The mills are about the same; not the smartest of people around the ones I have been to, except the managers. The smart people move to the city and make money using their brains. I have met some fallers and yarding guys, and even mill workers that are dumb as stumps. But I have also met some really bright people out there in the woods. It is an interesting contrast, especially since the second largest city in the PNW is so close to where they are filming the show. Up there it is more cosmopolitan. Now, get out of town farther, like down into this area of Orygun, or up into the Cascades, the characters get more interesting. The average IQ drops significantly. I think around here the average education is the 8th grade. Seriously, I looked up the demographics when I moved here. North Douglas County (what used to be Umpqua County) is pretty low in the IQ department.


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## windthrown (Jun 11, 2008)

tree MDS said:


> I still think Melvin is the man, at least those guys work, thats hard to find these days. Too bad that one guy from his crew is MIA, semed like a good worker, maybe he got caught up in all that fame, lol.



That guy knocked up his girlfriend and is living in a town along the Columbia (probably St. Helens from the looks of it). They did a short interview with him on the last show of the year. He said he was done with 'working in the woods' (the term they use here for logging). He is hardly caught up in the fame. He is caught up in the oldest trap of man; he got the GF pregnant! (oops!).


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## Blake22 (Jun 11, 2008)

Why did you guys watch this show just so you could ##### about it? Change the channel, go to sleep, go to work but shut the f--k up.


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## tree MDS (Jun 11, 2008)

windthrown said:


> That guy knocked up his girlfriend and is living in a town along the Columbia (probably St. Helens from the looks of it). They did a short interview with him on the last show of the year. He said he was done with 'working in the woods' (the term they use here for logging). He is hardly caught up in the fame. He is caught up in the oldest trap of man; he got the GF pregnant! (oops!).


That poor bastard, lol. Probably all whipped up, "that workin in the woods is too dangerous, you have a child on the way b.s.", F that deal, lol.


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## Nailsbeats (Jun 11, 2008)

D'wayne is the best. He is a good faller and hillarious to boot! He said something like, "the old timers were creative and resourceful", I forget, but at the end of his statement he says, "I guess those days are gone." 

I could just see him glancing over at his son, who is busy by the way biatching at the camera about his boss and having to work a little harder.

D'wayne just has to be shakin his head, thinkin "yup, those days are gone".

Too funny for me, lmao.


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## Sunrise Guy (Jun 11, 2008)

Blake22 said:


> Why did you guys watch this show just so you could ##### about it? Change the channel, go to sleep, go to work but shut the f--k up.



Lose the 'tude, bro. Those of us who have been in the biz a "few" years have seen the good, the bad and the ugly. We have our own opinions, just as you have yours. This is a forum, man. We can say what we want, and you can do likewise. When you tell us what to say, think or otherwise, you are out of line. I did not report you, here, because you are a fairly new guy. Next time you spout off, though, you will be reported, so take that to heart.


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## (WLL) (Jun 12, 2008)

i like the show and im glad they have it for us too watch. my favorite is of the bad storm they had.


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## windthrown (Jun 13, 2008)

tree MDS said:


> That poor bastard, lol. Probably all whipped up, "that workin in the woods is too dangerous, you have a child on the way b.s.", F that deal, lol.



Well, who knows. Bad enough being whipped, but now he's gonna have kids. Then he will have to make better money up there, which means going back to the woods. Fishing here is DEAD this year. Construction is DOA. Mill jobs are gone. Woods jobs are probably all but gone too though. 

Me, I'm grabbing my balls and running for the woods!


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## woodfarmer (Dec 13, 2008)

i finally caught an episode tonight, decent show


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## Climbing Cutter (Dec 13, 2008)

I saw a show a couple of weeks back called extreme logging. They were doing some swamp logging. Now that looked like some fun.


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