# Referral or finders fee



## rlsaloga (Sep 20, 2013)

What do you pay for referrals from landscapers, lawn and garden services or other tree services?


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## Groundman One (Sep 20, 2013)

rlsaloga said:


> What do you pay for referrals from landscapers, lawn and garden services or other tree services?



We pay 10%, or we give a flat price to contactors and then they can put whatever they want on top. 

One contractor we work for a lot always adds a good 20% at least. But he pays us on the spot and he pays us well, so he can make anything he wants.


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## imagineero (Sep 21, 2013)

I don't pay for referrals, I also try to avoid sub contracting to builders, landscapers etc. Doing so only builds up their business, generally at the detriment of your own. You need to build a name for yourself, not ride on the coat tails of others. Also, if I pay for a referral, I need to either make less profit, or charge that customer more than I generally would charge. I'm not happy doing either of those things.

Shaun


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## mckeetree (Sep 21, 2013)

imagineero said:


> I don't pay for referrals, I also try to avoid sub contracting to builders, landscapers etc. Doing so only builds up their business, generally at the detriment of your own. You need to build a name for yourself, not ride on the coat tails of others. Also, if I pay for a referral, I need to either make less profit, or charge that customer more than I generally would charge. I'm not happy doing either of those things.
> 
> Shaun



I know where you are coming from. Letting contractors put whatever they want to on top of your price is just plain bad business.


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## imagineero (Sep 21, 2013)

mckeetree said:


> I know where you are coming from. Letting contractors put whatever they want to on top of your price is just plain bad business.



Totally agree. If you are charging a fair price for your service (and you ought to be!) and the principal contractor marks it up by whatever percentage they feel like, the customer is rightfully going to expect to receive a service which is commensurate with the dollar value they have been charged. In short, you will either have to provide a higher quality of service than what you have charged for (at a loss), or receive a bad reputation because your principle has profited from your work while adding no value. 

Shaun


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## mckeetree (Sep 21, 2013)

imagineero said:


> Totally agree. If you are charging a fair price for your service (and you ought to be!) and the principal contractor marks it up by whatever percentage they feel like, the customer is rightfully going to expect to receive a service which is commensurate with the dollar value they have been charged. In short, you will either have to provide a higher quality of service than what you have charged for (at a loss), or receive a bad reputation because your principle has profited from your work while adding no value.
> 
> Shaun



Exactly.


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## rlsaloga (Sep 21, 2013)

mckeetree said:


> Exactly.



I'm not talking about working for the contractor - i'm talking about working directly for the property owner/manager and giving a finders fee to the contractor who referred me to the job. Thanks.


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## mckeetree (Sep 21, 2013)

rlsaloga said:


> I'm not talking about working for the contractor - i'm talking about working directly for the property owner/manager and giving a finders fee to the contractor who referred me to the job. Thanks.



You talking kickbacks here or what?


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## Groundman One (Sep 21, 2013)

imagineero said:


> I also try to avoid sub contracting to builders, landscapers etc. Doing so only builds up their business, generally at the detriment of your own.



I completely disagree.

We have three contractors (all landscapers) who sub-contract us regularly and have done so for years, and we make very good money with them. They have high-end clients and they do all the clean up, we just do the take downs. And that we help build up their business is great - they help build up ours. We all make a paycheck and everyone is happy. 

There is no "detriment" going on. What is going on is employment and a paycheck for everyone. I don't see the problem.


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## Groundman One (Sep 21, 2013)

rlsaloga said:


> I'm not talking about working for the contractor - i'm talking about working directly for the property owner/manager and giving a finders fee to the contractor who referred me to the job. Thanks.



As I said, we give 10% at least for the first job. If the customer turns into a regular client, we don't give 10% in perpetuity, but we do figure out a deal so everyone is happy.

Business is business and we make sure all parties walk away with a dollar and smile. It's good business.


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## rlsaloga (Sep 21, 2013)

Groundman One said:


> As I said, we give 10% at least for the first job. If the customer turns into a regular client, we don't give 10% in perpetuity, but we do figure out a deal so everyone is happy.
> 
> Business is business and we make sure all parties walk away with a dollar and smile. It's good business.



Thank you. I agree.


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## imagineero (Sep 21, 2013)

Groundman One said:


> I completely disagree.
> 
> We have three contractors (all landscapers) who sub-contract us regularly and have done so for years, and we make very good money with them. They have high-end clients and they do all the clean up, we just do the take downs. And that we help build up their business is great - they help build up ours. We all make a paycheck and everyone is happy.
> 
> There is no "detriment" going on. What is going on is employment and a paycheck for everyone. I don't see the problem.



I guess we've got a different opinion there. There are two ways of looking at it - one is that by subbing for them, you are getting work which you otherwise wouldn't have won. The second, is that if you weren't subbing to them, you could have bid against them and built up your own company. By subbing to them, it's ethically very hard to win future work from their customers in future, or referral work from those customers since they are the principle.

Partly it depends on how big the market is. If it's a small market, you really can't afford to be working for others. On the other hand, if it's a big market, why work for others anyway? You could get your own jobs, and either offer the customer the same work at your price (without their markup) and thereby beat them on both quality and price, or you can compete at a similar price point and make more profit yourself. 

I used to do some of that type of sub contracting, but the more I thought about it, the more I figured I was better off building up my own business. There are so many downsides to sub contracting - you can't compete against your principle, they are marking up your work, they're in charge of the job, less chance of getting paid, if you do a lot of work for them you may become dependent and in a weak bargaining position etc. The only reason to do it, is if you can't get enough work of your own. 

On the other hand, if you enjoy subbing for others, maybe I should start a huge advertising campaign in your area. I'll sell the jobs, you do the work, and I'll take 20%. You provide everything, and I'll tell you the address and collect the cash and give you your share later. Sound fair?

Shaun


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## mckeetree (Sep 21, 2013)

imagineero said:


> I guess we've got a different opinion there. There are two ways of looking at it - one is that by subbing for them, you are getting work which you otherwise wouldn't have won. The second, is that if you weren't subbing to them, you could have bid against them and built up your own company. By subbing to them, it's ethically very hard to win future work from their customers in future, or referral work from those customers since they are the principle.
> 
> Partly it depends on how big the market is. If it's a small market, you really can't afford to be working for others. On the other hand, if it's a big market, why work for others anyway? You could get your own jobs, and either offer the customer the same work at your price (without their markup) and thereby beat them on both quality and price, or you can compete at a similar price point and make more profit yourself.
> 
> ...



Shaun, what you are trying to do is talk common sense to that guy...and he ain't got any.


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## futbalfantic (Sep 22, 2013)

I believe two different things are being discussed here. Working as a sub-contractor and a referral fee. Valid points on the sub-contracting. Why work for someone else and take a cut from your profits when you could cut out the middle man. (but then again works real well for home building). As for referral fee (referral bonus is more accurate), that just makes good since. The landscape guy, handy man, etc. tells a client a tree looks suspect, or the homeowner wants a tree down and asks the afore mentioned. The afore mentioned calls you to set things up with the HO. Job goes well, HO is happy (new future client), you give the afore mentioned a referral bonus and he is happy as all he had to do was call you and get free money, on top of that he found the HO a great tree guy a which earns him brownies (more future work) so he remembers you which opens your potential clientele that much more. Don't see how that is a bad idea. 


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## imagineero (Sep 22, 2013)

They are two different subjects, but closely related in my mind. Offering a referral fee doesn't have all the downsides as subbing, but in terms of price, in order to give the referral fee you still must choose between either offering the customer a fair price and working for less than a fair price yourself, or overcharging your customer so that you can still get paid your normal price. Neither of those options appeal to me. 

Maybe it's a cultural thing also... it seems to be common practice in most parts of the states, but here in aus less so. Giving a person money to refer you seems to imply that you need to pay them to get the work, and that if you didn't pay them, they would refer a different contractor. That isn't a quality referral in my mind. I get referral work from time to time, sometimes from related trades, and sometimes from other tree companies who were either too busy or couldn't do the job for some reason. I also give referral work to others. In all cases, no money changes hands. I would only refer someone who I feel works to the same standard as I do, because by referring them they are somewhat representing me. If they do a poor job, it will reflect poorly on me also. I also use sub contractors from time to time (chipping, stump grinding), but don't generally markup their work.

Shaun


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## treeclimber101 (Sep 22, 2013)

I don't pay anything ........ I give them my price then allow them to sell the work , if they get more money for it that's fine , but I would never pay someone to "allow" me to work . There pay is showing there customers they provide someone of a different trade for excellent work ,they shine on that alone . My business is 100% referral based , I do work for huge landscape contractors and some small ones as well , I don't expect monetary return for a referral either it all washes out In the end


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## treesofga (Sep 22, 2013)

imagineero said:


> I don't pay for referrals, I also try to avoid sub contracting to builders, landscapers etc. Doing so only builds up their business, generally at the detriment of your own. You need to build a name for yourself, not ride on the coat tails of others. Also, if I pay for a referral, I need to either make less profit, or charge that customer more than I generally would charge. I'm not happy doing either of those things.
> 
> Shaun



Completely agree, building a name for yourself should come first!


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## Blakesmaster (Sep 22, 2013)

I don't call it a fee and have no percentage base but if it's another contractor that turned me on to the job I always try to put a little something in their pocket. More of a tip. 50 bucks may not be much but they can take the wife out for a few drinks and know that I appreciate the referral. 


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## Groundman One (Sep 22, 2013)

imagineero said:


> I guess we've got a different opinion there. There are two ways of looking at it - one is that by subbing for them, you are getting work which you otherwise wouldn't have won. The second, is that if you weren't subbing to them, you could have bid against them and built up your own company. By subbing to them, it's ethically very hard to win future work from their customers in future, or referral work from those customers since they are the principle.



It's good to have a lot of opinions. 

Actually, we do exactly what Treeclimber101 does. The contractor calls us, we give a price, and then he marks it up as he sees fit. I really don't care what he charges as long as we get paid. Only once did I hear what he charged over and above. We gave an estimate of $600 and he called the customer right in front of us and said he could get it done for $800. Fine with me.

And the customers we get from our contractors are not people we necessary would have got anyway. But through the contractors we get work, we get paid, and everybody makes a dollar. And we make good money off those jobs. The landscapers always want to use their own crew to clean up, so we don't need the truck and chipper, we just knock it down, buck it up, and go for coffee. 




imagineero said:


> I used to do some of that type of sub contracting, but the more I thought about it, the more I figured I was better off building up my own business. There are so many downsides to sub contracting - you can't compete against your principle, they are marking up your work, they're in charge of the job, less chance of getting paid, if you do a lot of work for them you may become dependent and in a weak bargaining position etc. The only reason to do it, is if you can't get enough work of your own.
> 
> On the other hand, if you enjoy subbing for others, maybe I should start a huge advertising campaign in your area. I'll sell the jobs, you do the work, and I'll take 20%. You provide everything, and I'll tell you the address and collect the cash and give you your share later. Sound fair?
> 
> Shaun



I sense hostility in your post and I really have no idea why. 

We get along with the contractors we work for, we also get along with the other tree crews in the area. We keep our work attitude low stress and we're not at war with anyone. We all work, we all get paid, and we all try to get through the day in a good mood. 

We leave the stressed out _"Gotta make the maximum bucks or else!"_ stuff to others.


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## treeclimber101 (Sep 22, 2013)

I don't care if I estimate the job at 1800 and the scaper gets 5k for it , I say that because I did a day cleanup for a scaper charged exactly that and he charged the management company 5500.00 and they paid happily .


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## mckeetree (Sep 22, 2013)

Groundman One said:


> I sense hostility in your post and I really have no idea why.




I dunno...you always did bring out the worst in people.


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## rlsaloga (Sep 22, 2013)

imagineero said:


> They are two different subjects, but closely related in my mind. Offering a referral fee doesn't have all the downsides as subbing, but in terms of price, in order to give the referral fee you still must choose between either offering the customer a fair price and working for less than a fair price yourself, or overcharging your customer so that you can still get paid your normal price. Neither of those options appeal to me.
> 
> Maybe it's a cultural thing also... it seems to be common practice in most parts of the states, but here in aus less so. Giving a person money to refer you seems to imply that you need to pay them to get the work, and that if you didn't pay them, they would refer a different contractor. That isn't a quality referral in my mind. I get referral work from time to time, sometimes from related trades, and sometimes from other tree companies who were either too busy or couldn't do the job for some reason. I also give referral work to others. In all cases, no money changes hands. I would only refer someone who I feel works to the same standard as I do, because by referring them they are somewhat representing me. If they do a poor job, it will reflect poorly on me also. I also use sub contractors from time to time (chipping, stump grinding), but don't generally markup their work.
> 
> Shaun



I look at it as a cost of advertising - why should I charge any more or work for less than than a fair price if I get a new customer this way than if they called me from an ad I ran?


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## mckeetree (Sep 22, 2013)

treeclimber101 said:


> I don't care if I estimate the job at 1800 and the scaper gets 5k for it , I say that because I did a day cleanup for a scaper charged exactly that and he charged the management company 5500.00 and they paid happily .



I can't get on board with that and no offense but if I give some jackass land scraper a decent price that he can mark up a little and the turdhead goes and more than triples the damn price then F that bastard. He is screwing somebody and I'm not into that. I'm not going to give some quote out to anybody that should be marked up over 300 freaking percent. That's why as of about 15 years ago I don't mess with these jackrag contractors around here and have stayed plenty busy without them. ALL of my competition (man I'm using that word loosely) in my immediate area just east of Dallas still jacks with them and it is obvious as hell it hasn't done them any good.


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## dbl612 (Sep 22, 2013)

treeclimber101 said:


> I don't care if I estimate the job at 1800 and the scaper gets 5k for it , I say that because I did a day cleanup for a scaper charged exactly that and he charged the management company 5500.00 and they paid happily .



a finders fee/commission/bonus/gratuity/ is standard procedure is many industries. general contractors mark up work done by their subs, manufacturers reps get a commission for getting work for manufacturing companies every day of the week. many salesmen work on direct commission, some have a draw plus commission. all your advertisement costs are overhead that doesn't necessarily guarantee that you will get the job or sale of an item. if somebody comes to my company and says we will get you this job and when you get paid we would like x percent, (and it is a reasonable percentage), what is the difference between that and paying a salesman or advertising fees?


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## mckeetree (Sep 22, 2013)

rlsaloga said:


> I look at it as a cost of advertising - why should I charge any more or work for less than than a fair price if I get a new customer this way than if they called me from an ad I ran?



It looks like you are going to do what you want to regardless so.......


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## treeclimber101 (Sep 22, 2013)

mckeetree said:


> I can't get on board with that and no offense but if I give some jackass land scraper a decent price that he can mark up a little and the turdhead goes and more than triples the damn price then F that bastard. He is screwing somebody and I'm not into that. I'm not going to give some quote out to anybody that should be marked up over 300 freaking percent. That's why as of about 15 years ago I don't mess with these jackrag contractors around here and have stayed plenty busy without them. ALL of my competition (man I'm using that word loosely) in my immediate area just east of Dallas still jacks with them and it is obvious as hell it hasn't done them any good.



Because I don't have to do a ####ing thing , and made the money I wanted , didn't have to sell it deal with it other then my work order . That's why ...... You have your ways , again I don't give two ####s what he charges , he knows that ..... With that said I make more then 50k annually just doing tree work with that company alone , no ball sucking ####ing around waiting I get my money in 10 days he waited almost 65 ...... I would have told the management company 1800 , and yea he made money but not off me off them .


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## treeclimber101 (Sep 22, 2013)

dbl612 said:


> a finders fee/commission/bonus/gratuity/ is standard procedure is many industries. general contractors mark up work done by their subs, manufacturers reps get a commission for getting work for manufacturing companies every day of the week. many salesmen work on direct commission, some have a draw plus commission. all your advertisement costs are overhead that doesn't necessarily guarantee that you will get the job or sale of an item. if somebody comes to my company and says we will get you this job and when you get paid we would like x percent, (and it is a reasonable percentage), what is the difference between that and paying a salesman or advertising fees?



I am content with the money I make off my work , I don't need to be shady with any of it . I give a price they pay it , easy peasy lemon squeasy LOL


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## mckeetree (Sep 22, 2013)

dbl612 said:


> a finders fee/commission/bonus/gratuity/ is standard procedure is many industries. general contractors mark up work done by their subs, manufacturers reps get a commission for getting work for manufacturing companies every day of the week. many salesmen work on direct commission, some have a draw plus commission. all your advertisement costs are overhead that doesn't necessarily guarantee that you will get the job or sale of an item. if somebody comes to my company and says we will get you this job and when you get paid we would like x percent, (and it is a reasonable percentage), what is the difference between that and paying a salesman or advertising fees?



And, some of this all boils down to what you have to do to stay busy. If paying out commissions is what it takes to stay busy or letting folks mark up your work, like in the Canadian guy's deal, then that's what a company has to do I suppose. Thankful here we don't have to do that to stay busy.


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## mckeetree (Sep 22, 2013)

treeclimber101 said:


> Because I don't have to do a ####ing thing , and made the money I wanted , didn't have to sell it deal with it other then my work order . That's why ...... You have your ways , again I don't give two ####s what he charges , he knows that ..... With that said I make more then 50k annually just doing tree work with that company alone , no ball sucking ####ing around waiting I get my money in 10 days he waited almost 65 ...... I would have told the management company 1800 , and yea he made money but not off me off them .



Yeah, he made money, he ####ing more than tripled the quote.


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## treeclimber101 (Sep 22, 2013)

mckeetree said:


> And, some of this all boils down to what you have to do to stay busy. If paying out commissions is what it takes to stay busy or letting folks mark up your work, like in the Canadian guy's deal, then that's what a company has to do I suppose. Thankful here we don't have to do that to stay busy.



You say that #### but your a bit narrow minded , I set my price and get my price even if they don't , there's been times where they've ####ed up the estimate and still paid me with a smile , I don't need to worry about staying busy they worry for me , I just do what I like to do ........ Work ......


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## treeclimber101 (Sep 22, 2013)

mckeetree said:


> Yeah, he made money, he ####ing more than tripled the quote.



Happens all the time , I am a commercial tree company ....... There is always someone marking soe #### up . Go ask around you'll see , that's prolly not even the worst one , I did a storm job 20 minutes charged 300 dollars the scaper charged almost 2000.00 , because they were out there the nite before cloning off the area and door knocking to move cars . LOL that's what my price xs 6/7


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## Groundman One (Sep 22, 2013)

treeclimber101 said:


> Because I don't have to do a ####ing thing , and made the money I wanted , didn't have to sell it deal with it other then my work order . That's why ...... You have your ways , again I don't give two ####s what he charges , he knows that ..... With that said I make more then 50k annually just doing tree work with that company alone , no ball sucking ####ing around waiting I get my money in 10 days he waited almost 65 ...... I would have told the management company 1800 , and yea he made money but not off me off them .



Agreed.

I don't see why some people are so overtly hostile to the way others work. We're hired, we get a fair wage or better, we do our job, we get paid, and we go home. 

If another guy going to work makes someone so angry that they feel the need to throw insults around, then I think that other person has a problem.


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## mckeetree (Sep 22, 2013)

treeclimber101 said:


> You say that #### but your a bit narrow minded , I set my price and get my price even if they don't , there's been times where they've ####ed up the estimate and still paid me with a smile , I don't need to worry about staying busy they worry for me , I just do what I like to do ........ Work ......



Well, everybody has the way they choose to do things and now y'all know mine when it comes to this subject.


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## treeclimber101 (Sep 22, 2013)

Groundman One said:


> Agreed.
> 
> I don't see why some people are so overtly hostile to the way others work. We're hired, we get a fair wage or better, we do our job, we get paid, and we go home.
> 
> If another guy going to work makes someone so angry that they feel the need to throw insults around, then I think that other person has a problem.



I look at this way we are employees of these multimillion dollar landscape companies , and I am well paid .... I constantly ask them to just buy it , open a tree division and hire me , but why should they ? They are making money on phone calls and not fixing or maintaining 3 trucks and all the machinery and all the drama with the guys , that's my end of the deal ... And I am fine with that


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## mckeetree (Sep 22, 2013)

Groundman One said:


> If another guy going to work makes someone so angry that they feel the need to throw insults around, then I think that other person has a problem.



Nobody is insulting you here, cupcake. We were just discussing stuff. I'm not angry.


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## Groundman One (Sep 22, 2013)

mckeetree said:


> Yeah, he made money, he ####ing more than tripled the quote.



It's called free market capitalism up here.

Do you have the nanny state controlling prices down where you are, some kind of government controlled profit margins?

Up here we do business. What works, works. What doesn't, doesn't. We leave it to individuals to work it out as they see best.


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## treeclimber101 (Sep 22, 2013)

mckeetree said:


> Well, everybody has the way they choose to do things and now y'all know mine when it comes to this subject.



And I am fine with that , different strokes for different folks ..... You wanna sub me for tree work and make a million of my sweat and hard work .... That's fine throw me plenty of work and when the checks stop we stop ..... Simple as that . I have 21 days of pruning that I haven't even seen yet other then a few emails ! LOL everyday is an adventure here at BUCKS ! LOL :hmm3grin2orange: set the GPS for margate city tomorrow morning for a bank job I've never seen but heard its gonna pay well , the weather at the shore is beautiful this time of year


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## mckeetree (Sep 22, 2013)

Groundman One said:


> It's called free market capitalism up here.



We have free market capitalism down here too but I still have an opinion on some of this stuff.


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## rlsaloga (Sep 22, 2013)

mckeetree said:


> It looks like you are going to do what you want to regardless so.......



And it looks like you are going to do what you want regardless.......

Regardless of what? So What?

I only posted this to see what others are doing - not for someone to try to tell me how to run my business.


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## treeclimber101 (Sep 22, 2013)

I talked to another residential tree contractor around here the other day , he said and I quote I thought you folded up and moved on I haven't heard your name with bids from customers or seen you around any neighborhoods , what's up , I said I found my niche 3 companies to be loyal too and they are loyal to me , I still whack out some resi. Work but primarily all commercial . I feel like I have finally gotten close to where I'm super comfy with the business , I see these guys buying cranes big chippers, lifts , log grapples , I run 2 late model 350's a medium size chipper and stump cutter and I guarantee when the smoke clears we prolly still make the same money . No ads to pay for no wasted fuel chasing work . If I need a bigger truck or loader I tell them they drop off what I need , if treemandan was still here he'd vouch for that , he has helped me out where I was just a hired saw


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## mckeetree (Sep 22, 2013)

rlsaloga said:


> I only posted this to see what others are doing - not for someone to try to tell me how to run my business.



Oh.


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## Groundman One (Sep 22, 2013)

treeclimber101 said:


> I talked to another residential tree contractor around here the other day , he said and I quote I thought you folded up and moved on I haven't heard your name with bids from customers or seen you around any neighborhoods , what's up , I said I found my niche 3 companies to be loyal too and they are loyal to me , I still whack out some resi. Work but primarily all commercial . I feel like I have finally gotten close to where I'm super comfy with the business , I see these guys buying cranes big chippers, lifts , log grapples , I run 2 late model 350's a medium size chipper and stump cutter and I guarantee when the smoke clears we prolly still make the same money . No ads to pay for no wasted fuel chasing work . If I need a bigger truck or loader I tell them they drop off what I need , if treemandan was still here he'd vouch for that , he has helped me out where I was just a hired saw



Damn straight. :msp_thumbup:

Low overhead, low stress, and reasonable profits. It's a solid recipe.

We're working to live - not living to work.


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## treesmith (Sep 24, 2013)

we do mostly private residential but also work for several gardeners, developers and landscapers, occasional but regular. We don't advertise and seem to keep busy anyway. We get far more work from them than we would if we went after their clients directly so for us it works and we have several good relationships from it. Definitely agree with Shaun though that if you're building up a business you've got to be out under your own name. We don't do backhanders or bonuses or whatever and people here don't seem to expect it either, a slab of beers seems to be "thank you" currency in Aus.


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## imagineero (Sep 24, 2013)

A slab of beer is the standard currency for everything in aus! Make mine a peroni


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## StihlRockin' (Oct 11, 2013)

Groundman One said:


> I completely disagree.
> 
> We have three contractors (all landscapers) who sub-contract us regularly and have done so for years, and we make very good money with them. They have high-end clients and they do all the clean up, we just do the take downs. And that we help build up their business is great - they help build up ours. We all make a paycheck and everyone is happy.
> 
> There is no "detriment" going on. What is going on is employment and a paycheck for everyone. I don't see the problem.



I think the problem suggested is that, yeah sure, as you've said, employment and checks... all good, but those clients will be calling the contractors for any additional work and not you. So in essence you're doing work where there's no upside to the benefits of repeat clients, which is the lifeblood of our survival.

And I've done exactly as you've described providing my services to other contractors. The money is good and hard to pass up. I do know if I don't take care of these contractors, my competitors will. LOL!

I'm feelin' yah on the paychecks and the happy part! 

*Stihl*Rockin' 

==================================


treeclimber101 said:


> ...if treemandan was still here...



WTF? He's not here? Is he ok?


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## Jolestree (Mar 28, 2014)

H


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## teamtree (Mar 30, 2014)

Wow, why is everyone so defensive.....I have learned the hard way people have very different views on operating a tree operation...each believing they are right....there really is no single right way and yes there may be wrong ways, for some. I like to think I can take good ideas and put them to use, but I don't think it is right to put someone down for the way they conduct their business, unless illegal or unethical.

I have many landscapers and lawn guys refer me to do work. I thank them. I try to refer some but you have to be careful who you refer to do work. I am blessed that so many feel comfortable telling their customers to call me. 

I don't like the idea of landscapers marking up my price but in most cases, they would do the work if I didn't or get someone else. 

I work for a ton of construction contractors and they just hire me, include my price in their price tag and we are all happy. Since I can't be a GC on a big construction project, I am happy to work as a sub-contractor when they need trees removed for them to build something.


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## bigstumpgrinder (Mar 30, 2014)

I do stump grinding and get referrals from landscapers and tree guys that don't do stump removal. Most of them don't ask for a percentage of the job, they just want to have the job done right for there customers. I in turn refer them for work they do when someone asks me about it.
Some tree guy's use me as a sub and they know my rates and price it into there bid and I am sure add some profit for themselves. I do not have a problem with this as they sold the work and I do a lot of work for them that I would not have gotten without them as most customers want the entire job completed for one price.


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