# chainsaw carving - best saw?



## hepcat

Hi all,

I am a chainsaw newbie, looking for a saw to start carving with. Did my chainsaw course on a Husqvarna 346 with a 15" bar, and since then have used a Stihl 021 with a 12" bar and a Stihl 026 with a 15" bar. 

Saw will be used mainly for carving medium sized bits of wood, maybe also cutting firewood once a year. Can someone recommend a decent saw please? I've been looking at a Husky 340, 345 or 350 with a 15" bar to start off with, as I have been told to buy either Stihl or Husky.

Thanks,
Joe


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## Simonizer

I know carvers who use the Husq 136 and 141's. Both are terrible. Go with a small Stihl. Cheers.


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## Caledonian

Hi Hepcat, try the following, don't know if it will be of any use though?  


http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=5199


Welcome to A.S.


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## BlueRidgeMark

I haven't talked to this guy for years, but last time I did, he used only Stihls. His small one was modified with a carver's bar, but still a Stihl.

He does some amazing stuff - best I've ever seen. If you go to Yellowstone and see a well done carving in one of the lodges, it's probably his.

I once watched him take a pine log - about 12" diameter and maybe 26" long, and in 30 minutes turn it into a very nice racoon peeking out of a log, all while keeping up a very entertaining patter to the crowd. He makes it look easy.

This one is really cool:








The inside joke is that the Indian chief's face is the face of his father in law, a retired fire cheif who known to all as "Chief".

This is in Idlywild California.

(He picks a mean banjo, too.)


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## hepcat

ok, thanks all - what is a decent small Stihl please? Is the 021 still available, or does it have a new number?

Thanks,
Joe


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## Caledonian

BlueRidgeMark


That really is nice work


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## Simonizer

hepcat said:


> ok, thanks all - what is a decent small Stihl please? Is the 021 still available, or does it have a new number?
> 
> Thanks,
> Joe


Stihl MS210 might make you happy buddy.


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## hepcat

thanks, Simonizer


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## Simonizer

hepcat said:


> thanks, Simonizer


Not a problem mate. Cheers.


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## fishhuntcutwood

I just bought a truck off a guy who carves, and he uses a Husky 350. I'm a Stihl guy, so I think an 026/260 or the MS210 or 250, even the MS180. I don't know anything about chainsaw carving, but I'd think that weight would be the paramount concern, over hp or torque. All of these saws are 10 lbs or less.

And I'd say that you'r better off with an entry level Stihl than an entry level Husky in the 1xx series, as those are actually Poulans.

Jeff


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## rustyb

Hi Hepcat,

I'm not a "chainsaw carver" but I use four different models to block out and do some detail work on my sculptures - Makita elec, Stihl elec MSE180C, Stihl MS180 & Stihl 260.

I use the 260 to block out with and cut firewood. I cut about 3 cords per/yr and the largest carvings I use it for are 12" in dia.

If ones budget demanded, you could get away with one saw......assuming you didn't cut very much firewood and weren't blocking out big stuff. A 260 would work. Block out & cut w/ stock set-up then change bars, chains & sprockets for detailing. BUT, you'd be carrying around a lot of weight you don't need for detailing. A pound or two may not seem like much but after a while, it makes a big difference.

Ideally, you'd want at least two saws for carving - one for blocking, one for detailing. Just as an example, a 260 could handle some firewood and blocking (w/ no worry of changing bar, sprocket, chain) and something like a MS200 rear handle w/ carving bar, chain, sprocket for detail. The MS170/180 work well too but are of a bit less quality than the 200.

Conversly, in the Husky line up, the equivalent to the above would be the 346xp & 336.

I should also mention that Redmax has a new saw out set-up from the factory to carve detail. Supposed to be extremely light and has been getting rave reviews.


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## RobbinW

*Carving saws*

Hi all, first post for me & seen the topic so I thought I would jump in & have a question of you also! I have been carving for a few years & started with a Husky 335 XPT Californian, a 45cc in disguise! it has a few design flaws but with a 16" 1/4 tip & chain it has served me well & is still used. I also have the most common carving saw on the market which is the Echo CS346 with the same bar & chain as the Husky. Just last Fall i picked up the 3200EZ Redmax carver & it is awesome to carve with. Super low weight, balance & vibration & I have a 12" dime tip Sugi bar on it but the backs of the cutters must be taken off to allow the full potential of carving with any dime tip. I just got a Stihl MS200T & an MS44 1 Magnum & haven';t even had a chance to try the MS200T yet but will. I have heard of a number of problems with the MS200 already so I will see what happens with mine. The question? What is the main difference bedsides cc's (I think) of the Husky 394XP & 395XP? I am looking at picking ione of them up for big wood. Also the fellow that carved the tree in Yellowstone isn't the only one as I have a good friend out on Vancouver Island doing one as we speak for them.
Thanks, Robbin


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## tawilson

Welcome aboard, and thanks for dragging this old thread up. I don't remember seeing that totem pole before, so maybe I missed it. I didn't have the whole pic onscreen, and was admiring how good it looked, then I scrolled down to the bottom of it and saw the people standing there and realized how freaking big it is. I have no idea what the answer to your question is, but I bet someone from across the pond will. He knows who he is.


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## tawilson

I've done a little research. I believe that the 395 has a semi-transparent fuel tank, and _some_ of them the side chain tensioner. Both are 93.6cc.


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## rb_in_va

Simonizer said:


> Not a problem mate. Cheers.



Simon, you out there?


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## RobbinW

*Appreciated*

Thanks for the help Tom. My main concern was answered in the cc's & yes that totem is a big one for sure. I do some in Ontario, up to the 22' level so far. 
Thanks again, Robbin


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## tawilson

No problem. Sounds like the location of the chain tensioner might change from model to model. Where in Ontario are you?


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## RobbinW

*Ontario*

Hi Tom, I am located about 20 - 25 minutes North East of London in a small speck called Brooksdale. It is 5 minutes North of Embro on the Embro Rd. Where are you from? I think it says it on the original post but not sure as it doesn't show the same in the reply mode?
Thanks, Robbin


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## RobbinW

*New York*

Ahhh now I see New York


RobbinW said:


> Hi Tom, I am located about 20 - 25 minutes North East of London in a small speck called Brooksdale. It is 5 minutes North of Embro on the Embro Rd. Where are you from? I think it says it on the original post but not sure as it doesn't show the same in the reply mode?
> Thanks, Robbin


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## tawilson

About 10 miles from the St. Lawrence across from Kingston.


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## gitrdun_climbr

The Stihl MS170 is a good model for carving I believe, I've been using mine for carving art for a little while now and really like the balance, the weight, and especially the price (cost of a poulan, $180 or something). Before chainsaw carving I used it commercially for a couple of years as a climbing saw and it still runs like new. I have carved with my MS200T but didn't like it much...hands are too close together and the power is a bit overkill it seems to me. Don't want to wear it out at $600/a piece either. I rave on the 170 because of the amount of saw for the amount of money...especially for the occasional/weekend carver.


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## troutfisher

gitrdun_climbr said:


> The Stihl MS170 is a good model for carving I believe, I've been using mine for carving art for a little while now and really like the balance, the weight, and especially the price (cost of a poulan, $180 or something). Before chainsaw carving I used it commercially for a couple of years as a climbing saw and it still runs like new. I have carved with my MS200T but didn't like it much...hands are too close together and the power is a bit overkill it seems to me. Don't want to wear it out at $600/a piece either. I rave on the 170 because of the amount of saw for the amount of money...especially for the occasional/weekend carver.



I carve with a 170 once in a while, It has an inboard clutch so it's easy to switch to 1/4 pitch. I have a ms200t and 346xp that I like for carving also.


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## B_Turner

I am starting to think about getting a very small saw (around 40cc and less than 10 lbs) to play with along the lines of chainsaw carving. Carving bar and dime tip.

For me lack of vibration is my main criteria, above price.

I've read the 3200EZ Redmax is nice but it isn't listed any more on the redmax site.

I know echo is popular, but I ran a small echo about 5 years ago and it was kind of buzzy (not a carving model). Their rep for carving saws is good so maybe some of the echo's are better in that regard.

One AS posting about the husky 435 seemed interesting, too.

Wish there was somewhere within a couple hours that had a range of carving saws I could try to see how they feel in my hand.


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## chipr

hepcat said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I am a chainsaw newbie, looking for a saw to start carving with. Did my chainsaw course on a Husqvarna 346 with a 15" bar, and since then have used a Stihl 021 with a 12" bar and a Stihl 026 with a 15" bar.
> 
> Saw will be used mainly for carving medium sized bits of wood, maybe also cutting firewood once a year. Can someone recommend a decent saw please? I've been looking at a Husky 340, 345 or 350 with a 15" bar to start off with, as I have been told to buy either Stihl or Husky.
> 
> Thanks,
> Joe



I've been saw carving for only about three years, now, but I would recommend using your O21/250 size saw for wood cutting, and blocking out.
I use a stihl 175 for all around carving. It's lighter, and only costs about 185 bucks as opposed to the 350 plus for the 021/250 size saws. I also try to keep my carving saws separate from my tree service saws. I've noticed that carving uses up bars quicker because of the increased use of the tip.


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## chipr

hepcat said:


> ok, thanks all - what is a decent small Stihl please? Is the 021 still available, or does it have a new number?
> 
> Thanks,
> Joe



I'm using a couple of 170 or 175 (I don't remember which) by stihl. I have a standard stock bar and chain on one, and carving bar with a quarter tip on the other. they're light, and cheaper than the others. Don't over use your carving bar, they get awful hot and burn up quicker than a regular one. The trick is to get as much done without going to it.


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## B_Turner

B_Turner said:


> I am starting to think about getting a very small saw (around 40cc and less than 10 lbs) to play with along the lines of chainsaw carving. Carving bar and dime tip.
> 
> For me lack of vibration is my main criteria, above price.
> 
> I've read the 3200EZ Redmax is nice but it isn't listed any more on the redmax site.
> 
> I know echo is popular, but I ran a small echo about 5 years ago and it was kind of buzzy (not a carving model). Their rep for carving saws is good so maybe some of the echo's are better in that regard.
> 
> One AS posting about the husky 435 seemed interesting, too.
> 
> Wish there was somewhere within a couple hours that had a range of carving saws I could try to see how they feel in my hand.




Ordered a redmax g3200 CV today.


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## TraditionalTool

*Top vs. Rear handle*

This is kind of a loaded question, but not intentionally...let me explain.

I'm curious how you prefer your handle, it seems people carve with both top handle saws (i.e., ms200t or 338xpt) as well as rear handle saws.

I mainly need the saw to cut joinery to build a log home, but carving interests me also. This got me to thinking about the orientation of the handle on the chainsaw, in view of the type of joinery being cut. But I have used a rear handle mostly, and know that I orient/feel the blade while I'm cutting.

I could see where a rear handle could be preferred when carving. But what is your take on that, some of you that have mentioned using both top handle and rear (i.e., troutfisher, RobbinW).

I realize you guys are carving and not doing log joinery as I intend, and why I mentioned my question is slightly loaded, yet not intentionally. It seems having my hand oriented on top might be preferred for cutting dovetails, just not sure yet and my plan has been to go with a rear handle.

Regards,
TT


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## TraditionalTool

In a response in the Chainsaw fora, and in talking with a log craftsman I'm working with, a rear handle is preferred for this type of work.

Given that, I'm curious is anyone is using the Husqvarna 336 for any carving work? I see reference to one higher up in the thread, but just as a recommendation.

Cheers,
TT


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## Tavea

*Good Advice?*

I am a weekend carver with the intent of becoming more serious as time and finances permit. I use a small echo for some roughing out and a 440 (?) for my blocking. I finish with hand tools (good therapy).
But I want to get a carving bar and chain for the small saw now to satisfy curiosity and increase productivity. Can anyone recommend bars and tips?
Many Thanks...


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## carvinmark

Tavea said:


> I am a weekend carver with the intent of becoming more serious as time and finances permit. I use a small echo for some roughing out and a 440 (?) for my blocking. I finish with hand tools (good therapy).
> But I want to get a carving bar and chain for the small saw now to satisfy curiosity and increase productivity. Can anyone recommend bars and tips?
> Many Thanks...



Hello and welcome to AS.
Cannon makes a pretty good bar and you can get a dime tip or a 1/4 tip in different lengths.
I also do a lot of finish work by hand.


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## Tavea

*bars and chains*

Mark,

Anyone you trust more than the other? Where do you buy yours at?

Regards....T


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## carvinmark

Tavea said:


> Mark,
> 
> Anyone you trust more than the other? Where do you buy yours at?
> 
> Regards....T



Honestly, I can't rember where I got my last one, it was a couple years ago. I have a saw shop I deal with that is in Southern Michigan, but I'm sure Baileys (a sponsor) will help you out, they are great and have helped me several times.


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## 046

Clayton Coss ... chainsaw carver extraordinaire... has done a ton of carvings in the Tulsa area. 

hands down the most well known chainsaw carver in this part of the country. watched him work several times. Coss uses a fleet of Shindaiwa chainsaws ... all different sizes. 

http://www.chainsawsculpturesbycoss.com/


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## TraditionalTool

Wow, cool eagle.

The legs almost look human like with feathers. 

Nice carving.

I've been pondering trying to do a griffin with an eagle head and wings. I would be ecstatic if it came out like that! 

Regards,
TT


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## B_Turner

One thing that I am coming to realize is the there is a lot of variability in carving bar "lengths" between manufactures and saws and since the bars are so short it mattes alot whereas with normal cutting a little doesn't matter.

I just measured my 12 inch sugihara bar on my redmax 3200 and it protrudes around 11.5 inches from the saw. It's a great bar and bar length.

I measured the 12 inch Cannon bar on my 346 husky and it protrudes around 9 inches. Shorter than I had in mind when I bought it, especially for that saw.

So just be aware of it when you order bars. So I would prefer a 16 inch Cannon (which would act more like a 13 inch bar) to what I have except it would weight more than I want.

It's a little maddening as these things are like 60 to 95 bucks a pop.


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## 046

what's amazing is the sheer number of works by Clayton Coss. 
his chainsaw sculptures are scattered all over Tulsa. 

the details he achieves with a chainsaw is flat amazing!
heck of a nice guy too...















TraditionalTool said:


> Wow, cool eagle.
> 
> The legs almost look human like with feathers.
> 
> Nice carving.
> 
> I've been pondering trying to do a griffin with an eagle head and wings. I would be ecstatic if it came out like that!
> 
> Regards,
> TT


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## xtreemcarver

didnt read any of the other posts but this comes from a lot of collective experience. right now i use big husky saws i.e. xp series for the block outs. the smaller stihl saws are unmatched in reliablity, i like the 025 or ms250 for a 50 cent tip or even for a small block out saw with the stock 16" setup it works great. as for the finish saw i use an echo 306, or 345. i like them because they are light and the design gives you maximum control over the tail of the saw. you can use a stihl ms 210 but it tends to be bulky and heavier and a little too aggresive for detailed carving. i have heard good stuff about the tanaka ecs 3351 i think it is, its available on bailey's as part of a carving package but i havent used it myself so i couldnt tell you. if you have any questions just let me know dude. By the way this info is from a PRO wood carver and these are the saws i use day in and day out with excellent results:

husky 357xp 18" bar 3/8 chain
stihl 029 super 16" bar 3/8 chain (dont recommend but picked it up cheap!)
stihl 025 16" bar .325 chain (smaller block out, as stated above)
echo 306 12" carving bar 1/4" chain
echo 306 08" carving bar 1/4" chain

this is what works for me


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## B_Turner

Here's what I view as ideal carving saws:

7900 for mid sized blocking and noodling

346NE with 16 inch quarter for serious roughing

redmax 3800 or 339ne for finer quick roughing

redmax 3200 for detail


One issue with the redmaxes for most of us is parts aren't as easily as available.

Full skip square ground chisel on the 7900 and bigger saws, Stihl 13 RMS 1/4 on the carving bars.


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## alderman

"Coss uses a fleet of Shindaiwa chainsaws ... all different sizes."

Well, of course he does!!!!


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## RobbinW

*It's been a while!*

Hi All, It's been quite some time since I was here. Amazing how time flies by so quickly as we get older. A little more experience & experiences under my belt since my last post. I now teach an accredited Chainsaw Sculpture course at a renown college here in Ontario. The Haliburton School of the arts http://www.haliburtonschoolofthearts.ca/
& I teach private lessons at my studio here in Ontario also. 
Here is a link to photos from my 2008 class.
http://s49.photobucket.com/albums/f251/RobbinW/Haliburton%2008/
& the 2009 class!
http://s49.photobucket.com/albums/f251/RobbinW/Haliburton%2009/
A pic of a few of the saws I have & supply to the students at the classes
View attachment 118176


View attachment 118177

I hosted or I should say My Wife, friends & I hosted the First Canadian Carv-a-Palooza the end of March this year with 17 carvers from all over Ontario taking part for the event. We all had a great time & will be doing it again at a new location this coming year & hoping to make it a little longer in duration with more seminars & may even have some international carvers attending this years event also!
Here is link to a slide show of the good times had by all!
http://s49.photobucket.com/albums/f251/RobbinW/Carvapalooza%202009/?action=view&current=9b18c277.pbw
My website was recently damaged beyond repair by Yahoo Geocities but to keep up with my sculptures here is a link to my Facebook photo albums.
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?ref=name&id=643211100#/profile.php?v=photos&ref=name&id=643211100
Thanks & hope you enjoy & by the way the G3200EZ Redmax with the same bar & chain (12 Sugi Hara with the new Stihl carving chain, in Canada RMC13) is way superior for detail extent & minimal vibration as compared to the MS200 Stihl. I have tested this about half a dozen times by switching out the exact same bar/chain combination & has proven the difference to me clearly!
Thanks, Robbin


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## carvinmark

clint999 said:


> ok, thanks all - what is a decent small Stihl please? Is the 021 still available, or does it have a new number?
> 
> Thanks,
> Joe



Stihl does not make the 021 anymore but you can pick up used ones cheap. I love the 200 myself but it costs lots.


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## B_Turner

I don't know if the 021 is a rear handle, but folks report the new 211 as a nice stihl for the pricepoint. 

A bit heavy for 35cc at 9.5 pho, it is a very smooth saw. On the one I tried the bar tip was quiet at all rpms. I compared the 211 and a husky 435 and the 435 bar was very bouncy, even at ful rpm.

I did not put either saw to wood, but I did run those two saws back to back at various rpms and positions and think the 211 seems promising as a carving saw. And 1/4 pitch sprocket is available from Stihl which is nice.

But I'm with Robbin, I really love my 3200s for a small saw.


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## carvinmark

B_Turner said:


> I don't know if the 021 is a rear handle, but folks report the new 211 as a nice stihl for the pricepoint.
> 
> A bit heavy for 35cc at 9.5 pho, it is a very smooth saw. On the one I tried the bar tip was quiet at all rpms. I compared the 211 and a husky 435 and the 435 bar was very bouncy, even at ful rpm.
> 
> I did not put either saw to wood, but I did run those two saws back to back at various rpms and positions and think the 211 seems promising as a carving saw. And 1/4 pitch sprocket is available from Stihl which is nice.
> 
> But I'm with Robbin, I really love my 3200s for a small saw.



021 is a rear handle saw, I carved with one for a couple years.


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