# tree mounting bracket design



## treecharger (May 16, 2008)

If you HAD to mount something in the top of a tree, like a solar panel or a Wi-Fi antenna, what would be the 'arborist approved' method of doing it?


What do y'all think of my latest idea for secure attachment points for my solar panel racks? The legs (1/2" thin wall steel pipe) would be in contact with the tree and we would use 12" long coated screws to attach the 6" square plate to the tree.

Any other ideas?


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## Kneejerk Bombas (May 16, 2008)

Great drawings.
The design looks good to me. They can be in the tree for three and a half inches of growth before there are any issues with impacting the plate. I assume the tubes are just floating,so if you need to adjust or remove the plate they can just be left in the tree, or carefully pulled out one at a time.

You might want to have a pocket full of some different length tubes to get an even mount on un-even surfaces.

Did you get a chance to look at Ledger Loc screws?


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## treecharger (May 16, 2008)

I was actually thinking that the tube 'legs' would be welded to the plate and the whole thing hot-dip galvanized. I was thinking that a single unit would be easier to deal with in the tree. I can see your point about floating tubes, however, and the ability to pull off the plate later while leaving the legs in the tree. Hmmmm...


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## suprherosndwch (May 17, 2008)

One thing that pops in my mind is how the tree will heel around the screws. If one screw is directly above the other, it makes it hard for the tree to transport food down the "pipes" (cambium) to heel around the lower hole/screw since you will have severed the "pipes" with the upper hole/screw. By staggering them (not putting one spacer directly above the other), the tree would be able to transport supplies down from the leaves to all the screw sites to seal them off as quickly as possible. Thinking about that though, staggering the spacers would probably make it more difficult to stabilize the the device to the tree. Overall though, you need to keep in mind that you will be creating a possible site for rot in the tree with some trees being worse than others, and I'm guessing that equipment isn't cheap. If it does rot around those screws, they won't be held into the tree well, and the equipment up in the tree would become a potential hazard. You'll need to commit to climbing the tree and checking the set up every year or two for the remainder of the time that it is in the tree.


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## treecharger (May 17, 2008)

That is a good point about the flow of water and nutrients to heal around the pipes. I could see making the bracket three-legged, I suppose. That would still be strong.

Yes it will be good to climb the tree to check on things once a year. 

I am not planning on installing these myself. My plan is to get into production of the pre-wired power centers to sell with solar panels, racks and batteries.

http://islandenergysystems.com 

Obviously the solar panels do not need to be in a tree, and it is definitely preferable to put them on a pole or a rooftop. But the 'Treecharger' is a fun concept product that does provide a solution for low energy needs in forested sites. 

Once I go into production I'll be looking for licensed arborists to be dealers/installers. Anyone interested?


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## masterarbor (May 18, 2008)

I would think that figuring out a good way to mount to a custom lag would be an idea. that way you could put the invasive hardware first, then attach the mounting bracket. maybe put in a triangle design with two on top and a quick release at the bottom. that way if you had to service the unit, or move it to a sunnier location, all you're leaving behind are the lags.


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## S Mc (May 20, 2008)

I just have a question here. I might have missed something because it sounds like this topic has been discussed elsewhere, but...you are designing a product to be placed in a tree for solar energy acquisition. And thought is being given to the impact the installation will have on the tree, but what I think you are missing is the fact that placing this device in a tree will require that tree be constantly trimmed to keep these panels clear for the sun.

Personally, I would not recommend mounting solar panels in a tree. What is wrong with the common installation of putting them on the roof?

Sylvia


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## (WLL) (May 20, 2008)

imo stainless would be a better metal than hot dipped steel


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## ATS/TexasTree (May 22, 2008)

Solar collector in a tree????? Doesn't make a lot of sense to me. 

Don't over engineer the installation

Any device installed in a tree should (in my opinion) be installed using hanger bolts (http://www.hangerbolt.com) - Stainless steel would be best. 

As the tree grows, the hanger bolts allow for adjustment. When the tree has completely over grown the bolts, install new ones.

How the cables from what ever device is installed should be looked at carefully as well. Simply stapling them to the tree will have the cables severed in a few years as the tree swallows the staples.


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## treecharger (May 26, 2008)

*For those who question why to put solar panels in treetops.*

For those who question why to put solar panels in treetops.

Here in the rural hinterlands of the pacific northwest we have way more trees than people. These are mostly tall, straight conifers .... douglas fir, hemlock and cedar, 50 to 100 years old, generally. 

Many people like to build their homes amidst the second growth forest that has been carved into building lots. A growing number of people are thinking about providing for some of their own electrical energy needs in the future, and the best way to do that is with solar electricity. 

For people who want to be independent of the electrical grid and also gasoline powered generators, solar electricity is the best way to go. 

Photovoltaic (PV) panels do not work in the shade. They need direct photon impacts from the sun, not diffuse light. Even a small amount of shading on a solar panel can effectively turn it off. 

In the wintertime in the northern latitudes the sun can be very low to the horizon. Even if there was no trees to shade the solar collector you would need to tilt the panels up to 60 or more degrees or so to collect the maximum solar power from the wintertime sun angle. 

Imagine how big of a clearing you would need to cut to shed direct sunlight on the roof of a cabin amongst a forest of 120' firs and hemlocks. 

But we want to live amongst the trees. So, to provide solar electricity (PV power) to a site that is in the shade of a forest, you need to mount the solar panels up in the sun. near the top of tall trees, above the canopy. 

Anyone who has ever climbed above the canopy knows, thats where the energy is. Thats why the trees grow so tall and straight, it's a race to the sun. 

Think of it as biomimicry, designing along the lines of nature... We are just expanding the tree's role as an energy conversion device.


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## Pete M (Jun 7, 2008)

Would the amorphous silicon PV panels not be better considering the likelihood of partial shading? How about having the panel mounted out from the trunk so that it is out of the foliage? Perhaps a branch-like pole mounted to the trunk?


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## treecharger (Jun 9, 2008)

Yes you are correct that amorphous silicon panels work better with partial shading. I have been using the UniSolar 64 Watt framed amorphous modules, for that reason and also because they have no glass, are VERY durable and lighter weight than glass fronted modules.

Usually in the systems I have installed in trees there is not much shading issues from the tree that the panel is mounted in. With the tapered shape of big doug fir there are not too many big branches near the top of the tree to shade the panel. I usually cut out a few branches to make room for the PV module(s). After a few years the branches will start growing into the area in front of the panel, which means its time to climb back up to trim branches around the panel. 

I'm not sure this could work in a deciduous tree that has a more open branching structure. I think it would be difficult to build a strong horizontal pole type rack to hold the panels out away from the branches effectively. Easier probably would be to install a vertical steel pipe that pokes up above the branches at the top of the tree, with the panel on top of the pipe.


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## D Mc (Jun 9, 2008)

TC, I applaud your efforts in trying to develop a new business. These are the types of innovations that have brought us to where we are today. So I don't mean my comments to be critical. 

How are you addressing the grounding, lightning protection issues? It seems any conductivity placed high in a canopy will increase the likelihood of strikes. 

Also within your system design, remember that trees' natural flexibility provides them with a great amount of protection during storms. I don't see the weight of a panel being an issue but with high winds, I could easily see the movement of the tree being altered by the sail area of the panel. If the tree was given enough time, theoretically, it would redirect growth to compensate for this, but initially I could see this creating some headaches. Everyone seems to have been getting a lot of high winds lately.

Just some thoughts.

Dave


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