# "Walkerized" chainsaws.......



## 1Alpha1 (Sep 12, 2005)

I didn't want to hi-jack someone else's thread.....so I thought I'd start my own.

I've heard of the term "Walkerize" several times, and I know it has to do with improving the performance of a saw......but what exactly is done to the saw or what does the process consist of?

Thanks in advance!


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## Chris J. (Sep 12, 2005)

I searched Walker AND hotsaw, & this link was in a previous thread

http://www.walkerssawshop.com/


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## Simonizer (Sep 12, 2005)

dano said:


> I didn't want to hi-jack someone else's thread.....so I thought I'd start my own.
> 
> I've heard of the term "Walkerize" several times, and I know it has to do with improving the performance of a saw......but what exactly is done to the saw or what does the process consist of?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


I'm not touching this one! ha ha.


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## buckwheat (Sep 12, 2005)

If you go for a Walkerized saw, make sure it has received the full port and polish treatment. Some saws will come through with a "Walkerized" sticker where the only modification is the dual ported muffler. I'm not sure if they would balance the lower end or not.

Obviously you'll find a lot of "bravado" on here and elsewhere about saw builders. All I have to say is that Walkers was one of the first to offer modifications, to my knowledge they have not been involved in any mud slinging, and their service has always been top-knotch with the few times I have done business with them.

You can also do a search to find my comments when I bought this saw, which really addressed my concerns about power/weight/frequency of use issues. My opinion of the saw has not changed. The only saw in this class that I might consider is the new Dolmar 5000; and that is based on my impressions of the 6401. I have yet to run a 5000. The reviews that I have read on that model are rather impressive, and I imagine a Walkerized version would be pretty strong.

If you do any kind of volume cutting; or if you're just a woodtick junkie like me, Walkerizing is worth the cost.


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## 1Alpha1 (Sep 12, 2005)

Knot Whole said:


> I searched Walker AND hotsaw, & this link was in a previous thread
> 
> http://www.walkerssawshop.com/





Great link..........it answered most of my questions.  

Thanks to you all for the replies.

BTW: I'm thinking.....just for starters, maybe getting the muffler on my 029 Super "Walkerized". I'd be happy just knowing that it'd make the engine run cooler......


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## Simonizer (Sep 12, 2005)

Donny and John are both friends of mine, there is no mud-slinging, just friendly competition. The Walker's are excellent guys.


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## DanManofStihl (Sep 12, 2005)

I got my 066's muffler done by then and they did a great job I would diffently get them to do it again it helped with the performance and the response or the saw and it makes alot of noise now. They were also very fast and friendly.


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## ehp (Sep 12, 2005)

I have been inside a couple walker saws, they did a good job and the saws ran quite well , they pulled the base gasket out, clean up the bottom of the transfer port , cleaned and polished the ext. port and did the muffler all at a pretty cheap price from what the guys told me so I felt they did a good job for the cost


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## fishhuntcutwood (Sep 12, 2005)

dano said:


> Great link..........it answered most of my questions.
> 
> Thanks to you all for the replies.
> 
> BTW: I'm thinking.....just for starters, maybe getting the muffler on my 029 Super "Walkerized". I'd be happy just knowing that it'd make the engine run cooler......




There's been alot of guys interested in a muffler mod for an 029. Do a search on here, and you'll find some good reading. There's two or three good threads with pics and all that. Supposedly, the 029 responds really well to an opened muffler.

Jeff


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## Simonizer (Sep 12, 2005)

ehp said:


> I have been inside a couple walker saws, they did a good job and the saws ran quite well , they pulled the base gasket out, clean up the bottom of the transfer port , cleaned and polished the ext. port and did the muffler all at a pretty cheap price from what the guys told me so I felt they did a good job for the cost


A little secret: Don't touch the tranfer ports. It seems like the right thing to do, almost intuitive. Any metal you remove from here slows down the transfer velocity due to _effectively_ increasing the crankcase volume. Close your eyes and think about what is happening when the piston is coming down. To take this to extremes, if your tranfers were 10X bigger, there would be no transfer. Simon.


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## jokers (Sep 12, 2005)

Simonizer said:


> A little secret: Don't touch the tranfer ports.
> Simon.



Hi Simon,

Perhaps Ed was suggesting that they dropped the transfers into the case or removed casting lines rather than making the transfers bigger.

I had a walker`s 346xp that ran real strong, then Ed got hold of it and managed to piss off guys from five states because it runs so strong now, lol.

I also like the Walker`s, they are first class to deal with and I always felt that they offer excellent bang for your buck.

Russ


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## Simonizer (Sep 12, 2005)

jokers said:


> Hi Simon,
> 
> Perhaps Ed was suggesting that they dropped the transfers into the case or removed casting lines rather than making the transfers bigger.
> 
> ...


Even _sharpening_ the boss between the transfers has negative results on volumetric efficiency between 8500-11000 RPM on the 372 and 385. I will be in Nanaimo next week and may drop in to say hi to Don and John. I think you know John quite well if I'm not mistaken ha ha.


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## ehp (Sep 12, 2005)

they didnot touch the transfers at the top of the port just cleaned the bottom of the port at the bottom of the jug , transfers have to work with the ext.port and the intake port. If you want to make a nice gain sure leave them alone but if you want a real gain you have to port the transfers, knowing how much is the question .


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## Simonizer (Sep 12, 2005)

ehp said:


> they didnot touch the transfers at the top of the port just cleaned the bottom of the port at the bottom of the jug , transfers have to work with the ext.port and the intake port. If you want to make a nice gain sure leave them alone but if you want a real gain you have to port the transfers, knowing how much is the question .


Port time-area on exhaust and intake as well as squish-band clearance should be the major focus. I could elaborate ad nauseum but will refrain. Cheers.


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## SWE#Kipp (Sep 12, 2005)

what is the gain of removing the base gasket in a 346xp ??
if you remove it what will it affect ??
like piston->exhaust->intake ??
curios 
/Kristoffer


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## Simonizer (Sep 12, 2005)

SWE#Kipp said:


> what is the gain of removing the base gasket in a 346xp ??
> if you remove it what will it affect ??
> like piston->exhaust->intake ??
> curios
> /Kristoffer


Before you do anything, take a piece of lead solder 0.030" in diameter and feed it into the spark plug hole until it hits the side of the cylinder wall. Turn the engine over once and extract the solder. Measure the thickness of the solder with a micrometer. I say this because there are differences from saw to saw regarding squish band clearances. (You can thank Mahle for this). The base gasket takes up about 0.012" clearance. If you have 0.024" or more on your initial reading, then yes, remove the gasket. In place of the gasket use Permatex ultra-grey. Use as thin a film as you can possibly apply ie. as thin as a sheet of paper. Re-assemble. You can run the saw in 2 hours from this point. The whole purpose of this is to reduce the squish band to about 0.012". When the piston comes up and has to displace this annular area in the combustion chamber, it promotes extreme turbulence which is conducive to excellent combustion and getting the most out of the charge. Making the charge bigger and faster is another story. Cheers.


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## SWE#Kipp (Sep 12, 2005)

does that mean a stronger saw ,,,,
i forgot ,, thanks =)


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## Simonizer (Sep 12, 2005)

SWE#Kipp said:


> does that mean a stronger saw ,,,,
> i forgot ,, thanks =)


Marginally. This creates a better "athlete", if you will. Now you must give it an increased appetite, larger mouth and bigger a##hole. It is all about processing fuel at a higher rate and at proper stoichiometry. Regards, Simon.


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## ehp (Sep 12, 2005)

If you use a .030 piece of solder in a 346 you can roll than motor over forever and the piston willnot hit it cause the squish on that motor and any other Husky is bigger than .024. Most Huskys are either .040 or .050 squish and .012 not in any of my saws cause if that is done with the motor cold just wait till it gets hot and measure it again but you willnot have to cause the piston will be hitting the jug on the intake side or if you arenot lucky enough it will break the ring land on the piston because of hitting, I have fixed a few of these for other people.


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## Simonizer (Sep 12, 2005)

ehp said:


> If you use a .030 piece of solder in a 346 you can roll than motor over forever and the piston willnot hit it cause the squish on that motor and any other Husky is bigger than .024. Most Huskys are either .040 or .050 squish and .012 not in any of my saws cause if that is done with the motor cold just wait till it gets hot and measure it again but you willnot have to cause the piston will be hitting the jug on the intake side or if you arenot lucky enough it will break the ring land on the piston because of hitting, I have fixed a few of these for other people.


On Canadian saws the tolerances must be closer. The 385 and 372 are both around 0.028". The Stihl MS660 is about 0.040", the Husq 395 about 0.045".


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## ehp (Sep 12, 2005)

I have built a ton of 372's , 385's and have never seen a Husky under .040. and I live in Canada. The saws here are the same as they are in the States on squish, our 372's are a single ring well theirs are a twin ring, they have a high filter as ours has a lower filter,


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## Simonizer (Sep 12, 2005)

ehp said:


> I have built a ton of 372's , 385's and have never seen a Husky under .040. and I live in Canada. The saws here are the same as they are in the States on squish, our 372's are a single ring well theirs are a twin ring, they have a high filter as ours has a lower filter,


This is very strange. You are in Ontario? My measuring instruments are Mitutoyo and Zeiss.


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## ehp (Sep 12, 2005)

Yes I am, my 066's are .040 stock as are most stihl's, but out here the 372's are all over .040, Hell I cut .070 off the base of the jug and then cut my piston to my squish which is .022 on most saws. I have got 372's from out west in the states and they were the same but maybe Husky is building you guys a different saw than the rest of us .
I have lots of measuring tools , I have Mitutoyo and Zeiss and others, you can just never have enough of them . I have 2- Zeiss , they are nice but I find the ones I got hard on Batterys compared to the others


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## Simonizer (Sep 12, 2005)

ehp said:


> Yes I am, my 066's are .040 stock as are most stihl's, but out here the 372's are all over .040, Hell I cut .070 off the base of the jug and then cut my piston to my squish which is .022 on most saws. I have got 372's from out west in the states and they were the same but maybe Husky is building you guys a different saw than the rest of us .
> I have lots of measuring tools , I have Mitutoyo and Zeiss and others, you can just never have enough of them . I have 2- Zeiss , they are nice but I find the ones I got hard on Batterys compared to the others



Here is a 372 tip to save you decking the cylinders. The piston from a 670 Jonsered has the wristpin located 0.033" lower than the 372 piston. I machine 0.018" off the crown and travel in 3/8"(0.375") on the cross-feed of my lathe. Although this is a vented skirt piston, it gives excellent results and you drop several grams in reciprocating mass.


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## rahtreelimbs (Sep 12, 2005)

Hey Simon,

How much expansion will you get on a piston assembly when the saw comes up to full temp.?


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## Simonizer (Sep 12, 2005)

rahtreelimbs said:


> Hey Simon,
> 
> How much expansion will you get on a piston assembly when the saw comes up to full temp.?


This depends on the size of the piston. The change in dimensions is length* coefficient of linear expansion * change in temperature. Lets look at the piston from an 066. 54 mm * 24*10^-6*200K=0.26 mm or about 0.010" The coefficient of linear expansion for aluminum is 24x10^-6/K. Don't forget the cylinder grows too. In a liquid cooled engine this can cause problems if the tolerances are too close. The piston will grow before the cylinder.


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## ehp (Sep 12, 2005)

I will stay with my 372 pistons, it only takes me a couple minutes to cut a piston so why add cost into it.


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## Simonizer (Sep 12, 2005)

ehp said:


> I will stay with my 372 pistons, it only takes me a couple minutes to cut a piston so why add cost into it.


I don't add cost because I end up with a 372 stock piston everytime. Cheers. Just a tip that few know about.


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## ehp (Sep 12, 2005)

But your piston and rod will grow more than the jug at it high temp. That is why you need more squish than most people think. I have seen motors with a cold measurement of .016 squish and the piston hits the roof of jug on the intake side once they have been cutting for 3/4's of their tank of fuel with their throttle wide open, guys cutting firewood do that


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## ehp (Sep 12, 2005)

So now I would end up with a pile of 372's pistons that are cheaper to start with than a Jonsred part that I put in the saw. No thanks I will stay with my 372 pistons plus I like my wrist pin was it is,


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## pallis (Sep 13, 2005)

Once you get beyond using a dremel tool on the muffler you've lost me. My 372 should arrive tomorrow. I hope to someday send it to EHP, even if I don't understand what he will do to it.


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## walkerized don (Sep 3, 2007)

*walkerized*



dano said:


> I didn't want to hi-jack someone else's thread.....so I thought I'd start my own.
> 
> I've heard of the term "Walkerize" several times, and I know it has to do with improving the performance of a saw......but what exactly is done to the saw or what does the process consist of?
> 
> Thanks in advance!



Well walkerizing is porting exh work and ignitioin timing on some models we want your saw to last and work good thanks talk soon.any questions email [email protected]


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## Haywire Haywood (Sep 3, 2007)

Just thought I'd bring to your attention that this thread is almost 2 years old. Didn't catch on till I got to where Ed and Russ were posting to it.

Ian


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## sawinredneck (Sep 3, 2007)

walkerized don said:


> Well walkerizing is porting exh work and ignitioin timing on some models we want your saw to last and work good thanks talk soon.any questions email [email protected]





Haywire Haywood said:


> Just thought I'd bring to your attention that this thread is almost 2 years old. Didn't catch on till I got to where Ed and Russ were posting to it.
> 
> Ian




Yes, but if you reffer to the post above, that is "Don". Hence why it was brought back to life.


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## sawinredneck (Sep 3, 2007)

Sorry Ian, wrong thread, this will make more sense!!!

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=35573


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## manual (Sep 3, 2007)

Why ?


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## J.Walker (Sep 3, 2007)

*Mods*

Good reading tho.
Makes me want a modified 372 now.


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## Cut4fun (Sep 3, 2007)

Ran a Walkers 460 awhile back and so far it has been the only WOODS used 460 that has impressed me running it. 
Just something about that 460 that makes it run like my 7900.


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## AUSSIE1 (Sep 5, 2007)

Can anyone else varify that sharping the divider in the transfer ports harms power in the 372XP?
Seems like that the blunt divider would cause terbulance!
No?

Al.


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## blis (Sep 5, 2007)

AUSSIE1 said:


> Can anyone else varify that sharping the divider in the transfer ports harms power in the 372XP?
> Seems like that the blunt divider would cause terbulance!
> No?
> 
> Al.



turbulance is good on right parts of engine, but more likely sharping the divider will affect spray from transfers in a bad way...


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## Crofter (Sep 5, 2007)

Cant think of why anyone would deliberately create turbulence. On a stock saw like a 372 limiting RPM somehow is almost a necessity anyways so not to be worried about the blunt edge of the lower end of transfer divider but if you are modding to push the operating rpm a way up, I think most people will do some work on that area. Extra crankcase volume is not a problem at elevated rpm.


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## klickitatsacket (Sep 6, 2007)

AUSSIE1 said:


> Can anyone else varify that sharping the divider in the transfer ports harms power in the 372XP?
> Seems like that the blunt divider would cause terbulance!
> No?
> 
> Al.



It has less to do with the divider itself and more to do with the outside corners of the transfers. If all you do is sharpen the divider and the inside edge of the transfers no more than a 1/4" up then you will gain. 

I am going to start a ????e storm with this next one.........

You need sharp corners (on the side walls) of the transfers. Round corners will create turbulance and back flow and will hurt performance. I have seen Husqvarna cylinders that have transfers opened up 60% bigger and loose 20% flow.


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## Crofter (Sep 6, 2007)

Making transfers too large will reduce velocity and often removes built in directional effect of the transfer stream and can hurt scavenging of the cylinder. Volume is only part of the equation. If charge density is reduced because of inefficient scavenging, engine demand will go down and overall intake volume could drop. This applies more to the upper end of the transfers though.
Unless the taper into an an opening is long, it can be better to have a square rather than radiused opening but generally the more gradual the change in cross section the more laminar the flow. Unless you resize everything throughout the system to meet the new condition optimumly it is usually no advantage to upsize one component unless it was an isolated bottleneck. Approach angles into the bottom of the transfer is affected to a large extent by the shape of the piston and how it fits into the contours of the crankcase and cylinder. What works on some saws can be a detriment to others because they sure are not all llmited by the same factors in the same places.


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## manual (Sep 6, 2007)

Be careful not to alter the transfers port window's direction, Chances are that any change will be for the worse.


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## blis (Sep 6, 2007)

manual said:


> Be careful not to alter the transfers port window's direction, Chances are that any change will be for the worse.



That is unfortunately true, DONT mess with transfer ports if you dont know what youre doing, thats my advice...


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## Crofter (Sep 6, 2007)

The incoming high velocity flows from the transfers must collide and combine into one flow in the cylinder. If they do not meet head to head evenly both vertically and horizontally they created a swirling vortex which tends to mix with and pull in some of the exhaust gasses instead of smoothly pushing them up and out ahead of the intake charge. The flow pattern is easily disrupted by any discrepancy in size, shape, height or angle of the transfer ports especially their roof. The higher the transfer velocity the more touchy!


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