# BobL's next CS mill



## BobL

I started working on my next CS mill today. There's nothing to show so far except some pieces of cut up steel. My left hand is still weak and sore so I have to go slowly and not stress it to much.

I'm making the mill out of material I already have laying around my shed and stuff I have found in the dumpster at work.

Because it's mainly gonna be made out of steel and it will be heavy I'm treating it as a prototype and if it works I may reconstruct the steel bit's out of ally with BILs help or I may just plonk it on rails (see below)

There's no plan on paper like I had for the BIL mill, I just have a bunch of related ideas rolling around in my head, the rest I will be pretty much making it up as I go along.

Some features I have settled on are:
1) It will use 4 x 39" long C-channel galv steel uprights.
2) It's all bolted together so it completely collapses down to one dimension bars or rods
3) I will use my existing HMWPE lined spare 54" ally mill rails, since I have 64" on the BIL mill and have only swapped them back to the 54" a couple of times and not at all in the last 12 months
4) It uses all thread vertical adjustment like the BIL mill but being a 4 poster this has some complications.
5) Like the BIL Mill, the new mill will bolt to the bar bolts but the saw will sit much more inside the mill than a conventional alaskan - a bit more like a rail mill - in fact one possibility will be to convert this mill into a mill that runs on rails.

One idea I'm working on is to fix the saw to the bar and mill, and adjust the chain tension at the nose end using a floating nose. The reason for this is so the chain can be adjusted without undoing the bar bolts and even while the mill is in the cut!

Like I said, unfortunately this will be slow progress - I'll post some pics once I have something worth showing.


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## ChainsawmanXX

BobL said:


> I started working on my next CS mill today. There's nothing to show so far except some pieces of cut up steel. My left hand is still weak and sore so I have to go slowly and not stress it to much.
> 
> I'm making the mill out of material I already have laying around my shed and stuff I have found in the dumpster at work.
> 
> Because it's mainly gonna be made out of steel and it will be heavy I'm treating it as a prototype and if it works I may reconstruct the steel bit's out of ally with BILs help or I may just plonk it on rails (see below)
> 
> There's no plan on paper like I had for the BIL mill, I just have a bunch of related ideas rolling around in my head, the rest I will be pretty much making it up as I go along.
> 
> Some features I have settled on are:
> 1) It will use 4 x 39" long C-channel galv steel uprights.
> 2) It's all bolted together so it completely collapses down to one dimension bars or rods
> 3) I will use my existing HMWPE lined spare 54" ally mill rails, since I have 64" on the BIL mill and have only swapped them back to the 54" a couple of times and not at all in the last 12 months
> 4) It uses all thread vertical adjustment like the BIL mill but being a 4 poster this has some complications.
> 5) Like the BIL Mill, the new mill will bolt to the bar bolts but the saw will sit much more inside the mill than a conventional alaskan - a bit more like a rail mill - in fact one possibility will be to convert this mill into a mill that runs on rails.
> 
> One idea I'm working on is to fix the saw to the bar and mill, and adjust the chain tension at the nose end using a floating nose. The reason for this is so the chain can be adjusted without undoing the bar bolts and even while the mill is in the cut!
> 
> Like I said, unfortunately this will be slow progress - I'll post some pics once I have something worth showing.



Felt sorry for ya Bob, No one responding! lol Rep coming your way!
Have you ever used Acme rod in place of your thread rod? Iv never had much luck with thread rod but love Acme!


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## FJH

ChainsawmanXX said:


> Felt sorry for ya Bob, No one responding! lol Rep coming your way!
> Have you ever used Acme rod in place of your thread rod? Iv never had much luck with thread rod but love Acme!



I really like this idea!> One idea I'm working on is to fix the saw to the bar and mill, and adjust the chain tension at the nose end using a floating nose. The reason for this is so the chain can be adjusted without undoing the bar bolts and even while the mill is in the cut!
Post pics when you get it built!


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## john taliaferro

*will you keep the BIL mill ?*

I agree acme rod is more sensitive to fine adj , four sprockets and a chain, but you need a aux feed attachment where near power you can use a drill or small motor to raise and lower. with rails and 20 hp should weigh under 800 kilo


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## BobL

ChainsawmanXX said:


> Felt sorry for ya Bob, No one responding! lol Rep coming your way!



No worries CSMXX , without pics I probably wouldn't have responded either.



> Have you ever used Acme rod in place of your thread rod? Iv never had much luck with thread rod but love Acme!



I love Acme rod as well but I will need 3 lengths of 39" so that means buying a 12 ft length which in Australia costs about AUS$100 or US$97 and I am supposed to be making this mill out of scraps. Also the space width I have to locate the rod is just enough to use a 3/8" diam rod and as I already have a 1m x 8 mm length of all thread in my shed for $10 I can buy another two lengths. 

All thread works OK on the BIL mill although it's a little too flexible over long lengths. On the new mill it will probably rattle like crazy as it is inside the C-Section uprights. It will probably need some kind of spacer or holder to reduce the rattling.


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## BobL

john taliaferro said:


> will you keep the BIL mill ?


Yep even though it's also heavy it will remain the working mill. This new one is a prototype to try out some ideas. 



> lI agree acme rod is more sensitive to fine adj , four sprockets and a chain, but you need a aux feed attachment where near power you can use a drill or small motor to raise and lower. with rails and 20 hp should weigh under 800 kilo



Yeah - I'm not sure I want 54" long chains draped along the full length of the mill. The other thing about driving all four uprights at once is this fixes the bar length which I'm not planing to do just yet. However, this will change if the mill becomes a rail mill. 

After spending almost all day working slowly on it yesterday I realised a rail mill would be easier to make if it was just welded together instead of being bolted together because bolting requires strong complex joining pieces to be made that hold the mill square. My shed is so small and crowded I cannot weld the whole thing together which is another reason the new mill is bolted together.

I might use a chain loop at either end to drive the allthread rods in pairs. The BIL mill is adjusted by hand cranking the alternate ends and it works OK


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## Brmorgan

opcorn:

Keep the camera handy!


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## aggiewoodbutchr

TAG for updates! opcorn:


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## BobL

Had a slow but good day in the shed today and have something to show.

Here's as far as I have got. The right hand side is the inboard side of the mill






There will be no inboard cross member along the red line. The reason for this is so the mill can sit more inside the mill and so the log will not make contact with the uprights. 

The first cross member will be about where the short piece of ally rail is resting on the main rails. There will be another cross member about 18" further down towards the outboard end from there so the cross bracing should be more than string enough.


To get away with this the connections between the uprights and inboard end of the rails need to be strong and slideable/adjustable. Here is a close up of how this works.





The bolts thru to the mill rail remain tight but the ones through to the C-channel are loosened and the the all thread is turned - same as the BIL mill.

To prevent the bolt heads turning in the mill rail channel they need to be 12 mm bolts which is overkill so I have used 10 mm tensiles and a twin-hole bolt-head-lock-plate that slides in the channel and stops the bolt heads from turning. I also had a bunch of 10 mm bolts left over from another job





8 mm bolts would have been strong enough but they would come through the slot and I don't want to weld them if I can avoid it. The two bolt heads that ride in the C-channel slot are welded to steel plate to stop them turning.

Here is another view showing where the other all-thread adjustment rods will go.





Here is where a crank will go.





Yes it is already heavy but it's only a prototype made from bits and pieces laying around my shed.
The only things I've had to buy so far are some 6 mm bolts, a piece of steel strap, and 2 of the all thread rods.

I need a new name for this mill (it can't be BIL2 because no BIL is involved) - any ideas?


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## betterbuilt

Looking good. 

*The Log Slayer*
*The Chipper *


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## gemniii

BobL said:


> I need a new name for this mill (it can't be BIL2 because no BIL is involved) - any ideas?


Bob's Big Boy Mill - BBBM or B(cubed)M
/edit - or (Triple)BM - 'cuz that look as heavy as a lot of you know what. Good, but heavy. Need to fix some wheels, an axle, some gears and drive it with an 880 engine.


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## BobL

gemniii said:


> Bob's Big Boy Mill - BBBM or B(cubed)M
> /edit - or (Triple)BM - 'cuz that look as heavy as a lot of you know what. Good, but heavy. Need to fix some wheels, an axle, some gears and drive it with an 880 engine.



I like the name "B3m" or B5m (Big Bad Bobs Big Boy Mill), maybe leave that one .

Yep - it will have pump up wheels - found them by the side of the road attached to a mangled cement mixer.


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## mtngun

Bob's Back Breaking Mill.


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## BobL

mtngun said:


> Bob's Back Breaking Mill.


It most definitely won't need a winch

Switching it to ~80% ally will be quite easy. The C-Channel is a standard size and it can be swapped out without any welding. The straps between the tops of the uprights are also standard size and can be swapped with a bit of welding. The more difficult bits will be the nose and saw holding - not impossible to switch to ally but will be a bit more work. If I do that it will be about as heavy than than the BIL mill.


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## Brmorgan

mtngun said:


> Bob's Back Breaking Mill.



+1

:jawdrop:


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## stipes

*Looking good Bob!!!*

Hope you get healed up soon!!!
Good to see your enjoying this project...A person can get pretty down in the dumps being layed up and not being able to do anything...
Keep up the great work friend!!!!


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## demographic

Just getting onto the thread for the updates, making it from steel would be far simpler for most people to weld than aluminium as most don't have the kit.


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## Timberframed

Mine is made of steel and couldn't be any easier to operate/adjust. This is before I installed a pressurized aux oiler.



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## BobL

The main idea with this mill is that it is a flexible prototyping mill, one that I can mess about with - swap things on and off, cut things off, weld things back on and try out some different ideas on it. I'd prefer not to do that with the BIL mill because being ally I'd be running back and forth to my BIL to get things welded up, and I don't want to mess up a perfectly good working mill.

I'm mainly using 3/16" thick steel strap and angle because this is what I already have lots of pieces of in my shed, scrounged from dumpsters and left over from other projects. Where possible I'm also using bolts to hold things together. I know this also adds weight but this also makes it much easier to change things than cutting and welding. It also has the added advantage that it can be flat packed since I have very little space to make stuff (did you notice assembly is taking place on a bench on the back lawn). 

I know using ally or with thin wall SHS tube would be far lighter but I would have to lay out hard $ for that. The other thing about using solid steel strap is it much better for prototyping because it survives having stuff cut off and welded back on again far better that thin wall SHS. I'm not that good a welder so I do end up blowing the odd hole in SHS. 

Like I said, all I look like having to buy for this project is some 6 mm bolts, a 6 ft length of 3/4" wide steel strap, and 2 all thread rods. I'd say that is a pretty cheap for a prototype.

If I come away with a couple of useful ideas from it that I can implement in any future designs then I reckon it will have been worth it. I may even keep it as a prototyper 

If it works I can also then decide to buy some ally, or lightweight SHS or steel strap and swap out the heavier steel pieces and either decide to either stay with bolts or weld as much of it up as I can at that point. I can also lose a fair bit of weight by just getting the angle grinder out and cutting off excess weight, Like halving the length of the vertical C-Channels - being a bolted on item this is easy to do.

If it comes to naught I can just undo all the bolts and put all the steel and ally back onto my supplies piles and put the bolts back in my bolts drawer.


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## BobL

Timberframed said:


> Mine is made of steel and couldn't be any easier to operate/adjust.



I have to disagree, there are always some improvement that could be made to any tool or machine. 

What's the black pipe thingo across the top of the saw?


>


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## Timberframed

BobL, Being a concrete/stone cutting chainsaw, the pipe is the water inlet that goes into what would be the oil tank. Again I like the advantage of being able to cut either wood or stone. I agree to your disagreement it's just that I'm happy as a pig in mud right now with it. Believe me there will be some modifications and improvements as time goes by.


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## BobL

Timberframed said:


> BobL, Being a concrete/stone cutting chainsaw, the pipe is the water inlet that goes into what would be the oil tank. Again I like the advantage of being able to cut either wood or stone.


I see - thanks.



> I agree to your disagreement it's just that I'm happy as a pig in mud right now with it.


Good on you! 



> Believe me there will be some modifications and improvements as time goes by.


OK - no worries.


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## BobL

*Will it work*

I did a bit more work on the new mill this week - mainly on the height adjustment cranks and the bar nose holding mechanism.

Here's where it's currently at.






Yes it is bloody heavy so it should self feed very nicely. 
I will be moving it around over distance with a set up pump up wheels I found by the side of the road.
I'm setting it up initially for my 44" bar I got cheaply in 2008.

The mill rails and height adjustment is basically complete.
There are three all thread rods that drive the height adjustment.
2 of the all threads are inside the C-section verticals on the inboard side and there's one crank and a chain linked to the other side driven by this crank.




The cogs are from an electric bike kit and have solid little 5/32 keyways for a very positive drive. I'm still hunting down some old school bike chain because racing bike chain is too narrow.

The outboard height adjustment all thread is exposed and centrally located and driven by this crank. 




The knurled ally knobs are left overs from another project. I like using the metal work lathe and whenever I get on it I usually make a couple of extras of everything just in case I mangle something later in the project.


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## BobL

*Now - Big question - will this work?*

So far there's nothing really different with the design of this mill so I thought I'd throw in something different and just play with it and see if I can get it to work.

Here's a shot of the nose.





Here's a close up of the top part of the nose.





Here's the view from the end of the mill





And here's the underneath.





As you can see I'm using a hard nose bar bolted (B2) to a small angle iron A-frame on the nose end of the mill frame.

The sprocket (SP) is a replacement sprocket for an oregon bar (cost $13) that has a long T-Nut (T) bolted to the underneath of the sprocket that can slide in a 1/2" wide slot (S) in a piece of 3/16" steel welded to the A frame, allowing the sprocket to slide towards or away from the bar nose

The springs on either side of the sprocket are located on a pair of long bolts (B) that run right through to the end of the mill. The bolts pass through allowing the springs to apply pressure to a bolt (B3) running through the nose of the sprocket. This should keep the chain moderately tensions at all times even when it expand due to heat.

The idea is, I will set the chain tension nominally at the inboard (Saw) end and then apply further spring pressure to the chain at the nose. 
I'm hoping this will ;
a) enable me to adjust the chain tension without always unbolting the bar bolts on the saw, ie even during a cut so if the chain gets loose I do not need to pull the mill from the log and tension from the saw end (I'm fairly confident this will work) 
b) take up some of the chain slack when the chain gets hot.

The springs I show are just sme exemplars that my buddy Frank gave me and are unlikely to be the ones I end up using as they are too weak. I might try some big motor cycle engine valve springs or similar. 

I have no idea if the springs to take up the slack idea will work. If it doesn't I will toss the springs and just shorten the T bolt and use the T and B bolts to lock the sprocket. I should still be able to make small adjustments to the chain tension on the outboard end using the B bolts.

Some other things to do on the nose end are;
1) Add some ally plate to cover the A-frame so when the chain comes off the cutters bite ally and not steel.
2) replace the outer adjustment nuts for the B bolts with something that might even be hand operable ie no spanner required.
3) Add an Aux oiler
4) Add a cover to the exposed drivers between the bar and sproket, if something falls in the the chain might jump the bar
5) Flare the groove on the incoming chain side on the sprocket
6) Add some ally collars to B3 so when the chain comes off the drivers hit ally and not steel

So what do you reckon, will it work?
I'm surprised no one has tried it before, well I haven't heard about it being tried.

BTW it might look incredibly complicated but loosening both B bolts and removing the top B bolt will enable the chain to be removed from the saw without removing it from the mill.


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## DRB

I think that the springs will have to be fairly stiff. When the cutters are cutting they will apply a lot of pull on the bar tip. The springs may start bouncing as the chain cutters load up and unload through the cut?

It will be interesting to see how it works out. What ever you do be safe.


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## BobL

DRB said:


> I think that the springs will have to be fairly stiff.


I agree they will need to be stiff. 



> When the cutters are cutting they will apply a lot of pull on the bar tip. The springs may start bouncing as the chain cutters load up and unload through the cut?


I agree, hopefully they don't load and unload constantly all at the same time.
To reduce (harmonic) bounce there's also the possibility of, like a car valve, of placing a smaller spring inside a bigger spring.



> It will be interesting to see how it works out. What ever you do be safe.


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## kirkeg

those bar tips look great! Betterbuilt and I were just talking about an idea like that w/ a replacement tip. nice to see someone put it together.

you have some goood ideas there. Can't wait to hear how they work!

"When the cutters are cutting they will apply a lot of pull on the bar tip. The springs may start bouncing as the chain cutters load up and unload through the cut?
I agree, hopefully they don't load and unload constantly all at the same time.
To reduce (harmonic) bounce there's also the possibility of, like a car valve, of placing a smaller spring inside a bigger spring."

harmonic resonance can tear things apart!
and of course there is the famous Tacoma Narrows Bridge collapse!

BB's saw powerhead started bouncing a bit when self feeding but was quickly remedied w/ a bungee cord.

Not a big deal in this application but something to be aware of... besides i find interesting to say the least.


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## betterbuilt

I really like where your going with your mill. Do you remember this picture?





I'd like to build something like that, but I wasn't sure how to build the tensioner mechanism. I'm watching your progress. nice work.


huebi posted that pic and this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32_kTPHUfA4


here's is the thread with the pictures
http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=127243&highlight=chain+tensioner


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## BobL

betterbuilt said:


> I really like where your going with your mill. Do you remember this picture?



I certainly do remember that picture and that whole thread. It's one of the threads that got me thinking about chain adjustment at the outboard end of the mill. The last sentence in that thread is me saying "Double ender sounds like the way to go though. I might just make my own ?" I would have made this mill earlier if I had not been away between April and August of this year, and come back with mangled fingers!! 

Regarding harmonic resonance tearing things apart, I'm familiar with this as I teach this stuff at work. It's usually not that hard to deal with provided one can see the onset occurring and some adjustment or variability is designed into the system. In this case it should be a matter of just changing the springs or arrangement of springs, like putting another smaller spring inside a bigger spring

With long bars I run the chain quite tight but I always worry about it being too tight and about the high strain regular chain adjustment places on the relatively small chain tensioner. With this new setup, and whether I do or do not use the springs, I should now be able to set the chain tension accurately and reproducibly using a cordless driver ie set the clutch at the required setting and run the driver until the set clutch engages. 

It's gonna still be a while before I can try it out because I still have to make the inboard end of the mill and the amount of time I have to put towards it is going to be small.


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## demographic

BobL said:


> I certainly do remember that picture and that whole thread. It's one of the threads that got me thinking about chain adjustment at the outboard end of the mill. The last sentence in that thread is me saying "Double ender sounds like the way to go though. I might just make my own ?" I would have made this mill earlier if I had not been away between April and August of this year, and come back with mangled fingers!!
> 
> Regarding harmonic resonance tearing things apart, I'm familiar with this as I teach this stuff at work. It's usually not that hard to deal with provided one can see the onset occurring and some adjustment or variability is designed into the system. In this case it should be a matter of just changing the springs or arrangement of springs, like putting another smaller spring inside a bigger spring
> 
> With long bars I run the chain quite tight but I always worry about it being too tight and about the high strain regular chain adjustment places on the relatively small chain tensioner. With this new setup, and whether I do or do not use the springs, I should now be able to set the chain tension accurately and reproducibly using a cordless driver ie set the clutch at the required setting and run the driver until the set clutch engages.
> 
> It's gonna still be a while before I can try it out because I still have to make the inboard end of the mill and the amount of time I have to put towards it is going to be small.



Surely if its a harmonic vibration problem you can alter its resonant frequency by changing the weight of the bolt?


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## BobL

demographic said:


> Surely if its a harmonic vibration problem you can alter its resonant frequency by changing the weight of the bolt?



I'm bot sure what bolt you are referring to?

My biggest concern is the possibility of the chain (and thus the sprocket) resonating with the natural frequency of the springs.Iif that happens the amplitude of the vibration will increase and who knows what will happen. 

There are a couple of options to minimize this, change the weight of the sprocket (ie difficult) or change the springs. Adding a damper between the sprocket and the A frame is another possibility.

I did a bit more this evening but no time for any photos. Mainly stiffening the A frame on the nose end of the mill and added some brass angle to cover the exposed part of the A-frame so when the chain comes off the cutters hit brass and not steel.


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## Daninvan

Bob,

Very inspiring work as always! Keep those pictures coming, enjoy seeing the progress and the thinking that goes into it.

Cheers,

Dan


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## demographic

BobL said:


> I'm bot sure what bolt you are referring to?
> 
> My biggest concern is the possibility of the chain (and thus the sprocket) resonating with the natural frequency of the springs.Iif that happens the amplitude of the vibration will increase and who knows what will happen.
> 
> There are a couple of options to minimize this, change the weight of the sprocket (ie difficult) or change the springs. Adding a damper between the sprocket and the A frame is another possibility.
> 
> I did a bit more this evening but no time for any photos. Mainly stiffening the A frame on the nose end of the mill and added some brass angle to cover the exposed part of the A-frame so when the chain comes off the cutters hit brass and not steel.




Sorry, I was looking at it the wrong way there and thought the bolt was attached to the sprocket and the spring pulled from the other end.

My mistake.


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## BobL

Daninvan said:


> Bob,
> 
> Very inspiring work as always! Keep those pictures coming, enjoy seeing the progress and the thinking that goes into it.



Thanks Dan, I had the idea half baked back when I caught up with you in BC, but until I actually make it I often can't explain it.


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## BobL

Finished the chain connected all thread rods this evening. It works nice and smooth. It will be interesting to see how much the chain rattles when the power head is running.





I'll start on the inboard saw holding end tomorrow - I'm still unsure what I'm gonna do.


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## BobL

*** WARNING - SUPER GEEKY CMS STUFF - ***

Some more pics of the new mill.




and here's the BIL mill with the 076 for comparison.




If you can see a certain common style with the BIL mill, you're right, I collect bicycle parts and use handlebar stems on lots of stuff as they make good handles.

The main difference between the saw mounts is the new mill has no cross piece between the uprights near the saw. Together with a modified saw mounting position (see below) this means the saw can sit a little more forward in the mill to maximise the cutting length, (I didn't completely maximise this on the BIL mill)- in the case of the 076 it's only about 1.5" more forward but it means the wrap handle won't interfere with a standard cross piece. In the case of the 880 it will be a little more that the BIL mill - see below. 

Here's a side view of the saw mount. 




The main connection point is that piece of blue 1 9/16" SHS with holes drilled in it on one side that are just the right size for the 10 mm bar bolts and 7/8" on the other to allow bar nuts and a socket to pass through the hole. The SHS is welded to the 3/16" angle cross bar that connects the bottom of the two inboard uprights. I'm using nuts with a built in washer so they sit on the end of the long socket that can drive and tighten these nuts in thru those big holes. The idea of using SHS as a tall standoff I shamelessly stole from another member on this site, I can't remember who your are, - sorry or I would have acknowledged you.

One reason for having such a tall standoff is that this allows for good clearance between the wrap handle and the mill because my chains go over the top of the saw/bar at the outboard end and under the saw at the inboard end. This means the chain crosses the saw near the inboard uprights so good clearance is needed between the inboard uprights and the saw. 

Here's another view showing the clearance.




Yeah I know I need a new sprocket!

Here's a front view.





The first thing a log will now normally hit is the casting that supports the 076 chain brake handle circled red in the picture above. To reduce this effect I will add a skid at that point as well as adding some wheels. Tensioning the chain on the outboard end means the bar can be run at it's full length so the theoretical max cut from the 44" bar is 42.7". I though the to and from rocking flex would be noticeable with such as setup and I was all ready to gusset the SHS to the mill but that is not necessary. The powerhead does flex up and down much more than I like and will have to attend to that.

One thing I wanted to do was make the new mill able to take the 076 and the 880 without any adapters such as I use on the BIL mill, which was originally made to suit the 076, but needs an adapter plate to take the 880. The reason for this is their bar bolts are located in slightly different positions relative to the front of the saw and the built in chain break handle makes the 880 taller which means it hits the mill BIL mill upright which means on the BIL mill the 880 has to sit further away from the uprights resulting in reduced cutting width. 

The new mill is wider and there is no cross piece to interfere with the 880 chain brake BUT the chain brake makes the 880 taller so it also has to sit further back in the mill away from the operator. This means the ideal mounting point is different than that for the 076 (DANG!). I mucked about with it all day yesterday trying to get a compromise but I have decide to settled for using two completely separate mounting cross bars - one for the 076 and one for the 880 - I can do this because the new mill is bolted together - if it was all welded I'd have to settle for an adapter plate and a reduced cutting length for the 880


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## Brmorgan

Looking pretty sweet, Bob! But I'll be honest, my back is getting sore just looking at that!


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## BobL

Brmorgan said:


> Looking pretty sweet, Bob! But I'll be honest, my back is getting sore just looking at that!



I thought it would be really really heavy but I am quite surprised at what it weighs. I reckon it's about as heavy with the 44" bar as the BIL mill is with the 60" bar. But I still have stuff to add like the Aux oiler, wheels and feet - although those will be made of plastic.

I have to keep reminding myself it's a test bed for ideas. So far it's cost me less than $50 and I have learned quite a lot from the exercise and had a lot of fun and some frustration making it. If I decide to keep it as a working mill I would do things like cut those C-sections in half, and spend $20 and swap the 3/16" angle for 1/8" and the 1.5" x 3/16 strap for 1" x 1/8 strap. It could even be 90% useable?  

But the most likely thing is I will spend $50 on some 1/4" Ally angle and strap and buy a carton of beer and go visit BIL to weld up the ally and strap and It will then be about the same weight at the BIL mill.

More posts soon - working on the wheels - just about done.


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## BobL

*Wheels 3*

I've been messing with ideas for wheels for days and finally decide to keep them simple and see if they work.

The wheels are from a foot powered child's 2 wheeled scooter so they are bigger than roller blades but you can see one of these is not too round (obviously the kid applied the brakes a bit hard a couple of times) but I'll see how they go and the next time there is a kerbside trash pickup I'm sure I'll find another set or sets!





The wheels are mounted on the blue 7" long 3/4" SHS. The end opposite the wheel is plugged with a 1" long square cross section piece of steel that fits neatly inside the SHS and is locked into place by welding the exposed end. A 1/2" diam hole is then drilled thru the side of the plugged end. A single end hinge is made from a 1/2" round solid steel rod and a short piece of 3/16" strap. The plugged end of the SHS has a threaded 1/4" hole that takes a locking screw.





The wheel are located in the same plane as the bar and can rotate about 270 degrees (although only 120º are of some pratical use although the remaining rotation gets them out of the way) but cannot rotate to come any closer than about 5 " from the chain. They cover a range of ~8" and seem strong enough but only using them will tell.





Here's a shot of the nose I took the other day and forgot to post. 




The brass angle is to protect the chain when it comes off so that the chain attacks the brass instead of the steel. The aux oiler point is made from irrigation fittings, some brass rod and stainless strap. The vibe will probably spray oil all over the place so I might have to stiffen up the SS or make the C-shape a bit smaller.


----------



## betterbuilt

Looking at the pictures I was trying to figure out how the wheels adjusted. It looks like they just swivel. Do you have a way to hold them in a specific position. I like the simple design. nice.


----------



## BobL

betterbuilt said:


> Looking at the pictures I was trying to figure out how the wheels adjusted. It looks like they just swivel. Do you have a way to hold them in a specific position. I like the simple design. nice.



yep - they just swivel inwards or outwards. The position is held by 1/4 locking nut "L". 





This means they can also come off very quickly.

if the 1/4" locking nuts don't work I'll up them to 3/8", could even go to 7/16" if I have to. I have a similar system on my small mill I use with the 441 and they work fine with 1/4" locking screws but the forces with the bigger saws will be greater.


----------



## betterbuilt

I like it. I thought there might be more to them then I could tell by the pictures. Nice and simple.


----------



## DRB

I love the inboard mounting set up. I have always thought of doing something like that but have never gotten around to it. The chain brake on my 088 always seems to get in the way when maximizing cut length.

Keep up the good work of posting the SUPER GEEKY CMS STUFF


----------



## Daninvan

Great stuff Bob! Are the wheels adjustable in the vertical plane? I was wondering if you made your hinge pin longer and secured it at both ends, then you could slide the wheel assembly up and down on it. (of course you could not remove the wheels readily then either)

That being said it looks like the hinge pin and the strap that secures it are going to be subject to a lot of force with your big mills. As will be the single locking nut that holds the wheel to the pin. It's good to hear that a similar setup works well on your smaller mill though, that gives me hope for this version. But If it were me I'd try to beef that part up before putting it into service.

Speaking of that, when are you going to make the first cuts with this one?!

Dan


----------



## BobL

Daninvan said:


> Great stuff Bob!


Thank Dan and DRB.



> Are the wheels adjustable in the vertical plane? I was wondering if you made your hinge pin longer and secured it at both ends, then you could slide the wheel assembly up and down on it. (of course you could not remove the wheels readily then either)


That would help on for cuts on the bottom half of the log, for cuts on the top half, the wheels need to drop below the bar and that would mean an extension to the mill which then gets in the way when milling the lower half of the log. Moving the wheels up and down and away from the plane of the cut also means the resulting forces generated squish the mill and push the bar (and chain) upwards increasing friction and losing power. This is why I have gone for wheels that stay in the same plane as the bar and just swivel out to meet the log. 8" of travel should cope with most cuts but since the wheel arm can be easily changed I will also make some arms with shorter (maybe 4") travel for use on thinner cuts. I'm also toying with the idea of a kind of "riving knife" for the trailing wheel. eg a piece of rounded edge 1/8" thick ally plate maybe 4" long attached to the wheel end of the arm. The plate is long enough to extend past the wheel and into the kerf. This will hold the wheel along the line of the cut and stop it wandering up and down as sometimes happens on ribbed or lumpy barked logs 



> That being said it looks like the hinge pin and the strap that secures it are going to be subject to a lot of force with your big mills. As will be the single locking nut that holds the wheel to the pin. It's good to hear that a similar setup works well on your smaller mill though, that gives me hope for this version. But If it were me I'd try to beef that part up before putting it into service.


I agree, the forces that act on wheels can be quite significant. I'll change the locking screw to a 3/8. I might also modify the hinge to make the pin longer and the the hinge wider and then use two locking screws.



> Speaking of that, when are you going to make the first cuts with this one?!


Still a bit to do. I have to make up a chain loop, find some MC valve springs, aux oiler tank and plumbing, and make some sort of a clutch cover, I'm thinking of going with a simple Aggiewoodbutchr model. I'll also maybe give the exposed steel bits an undercoating. I find rushing to the cut is best put off just in case I think of a problem or two ;-)


----------



## BobL

I decided to upgrade the trailing wheel bracket lock and add a riving 5/16" thick riving knife that rides inside the kerf.

Here's a comparison of the old and new locks.




Old one has one 1/4" locking socketscrew, new one has 2 x 8 mm socket screws

Here's the riving knife with fully extended wheel bracket





Wheel fully retracted to prevent log rubbing on mill/saw..





Even though that wheel arm is trailing arm, the riving knife is made of ally in case it comes loose and runs downslope and hits the chain! EEK!

It's all speculation of course - it could all fall apart on the first cut


----------



## betterbuilt

I like the riving knike. My question is, is it gonna create drag down the log. If the wheel wants to ride up or down it could create friction and you might want to add that hand crank. I guess the only way to find out is to try. 

Where is the seat gonna mount on that caddy?


----------



## BobL

betterbuilt said:


> I like the riving knike. My question is, is it gonna create drag down the log. If the wheel wants to ride up or down it could create friction and you might want to add that hand crank.


This thing weighs so much it's not going to need a crank.
If the riving knife creates drag and pulls the wheel into line then that tells me it's doing its job. However I don't want it to get hung up on any ridges etc but my mills cut pretty well without ridges as I usually use the log rails on every cut. I will round the riving knife edges over some more so they should not get caught all that easily



> I guess the only way to find out is to try.


Yep



> Where is the seat gonna mount on that caddy?


----------



## BobL

Well - I weighed in the B3M today with the 076 and the 44" bar. All up it weighs 85 lbs so its a back breaker all right. For comparison, the BIL mill weighs 72 lbs with the 60" bar. Like I said this piggy is not going to need any winches.

Anyway - here is what looks like - I threw a coat of phosphoric acid and charcoal hammer finish on it to slow down any rusting.














I made up a 3/8 chain for it and ran it with the 076 in my back garden today for about 15 minutes but not having any logs at my place I can't try it cutting anything. 

I have put some MC valve springs on it and they provide a fair bit of back tension but I can still easily pull the chain back by hand but it seems to sit on the bar very nicely at WOT.








Blipping the throttle makes the springs twitch and tighten up a touch.


----------



## BobL

Then I spent some time fitting the 880 to the B3M.

As I said previously the 880 is a much taller saw so it cannot fit in the mill using the same bracket as the 076. Because the B3M is not all welded its easy to replace just the inboard saw mount bracket with one to suit the 880.

Here's the 076 and the 880 brackets.





The top one is for the 076 and the bottom one fits the 880.
Yeah I know I drilled the bar bolt holes in the wrong place and had to open up them up to fit !

Here's how the 880 fits in the mill.




I can use the same custom clutch cover as for for the BIL mill.

Here you can see the clearance around the chain brake handle.








replacing the chain on this design will be a little easier than on the BIL mill.

Here's a botton view showing the net displacement of the 880 sideways is quite significant.





I haven't run the 880 yet - I ran out of gas and I have no car so have to wait for SWMBO to get home from work. My wrecked van is still with the insurers. I've taken a week of holidays to hunt for a new car (have seen a few but can't buy anything until I get the final figure from the insurers) get the B3M finished, and do some ground work on getting a workshop extension happening.


----------



## gemniii

Does that mass include a full aux oiler?


----------



## Daninvan

New mill, new van, workshop extension, I'm liking the way things are starting to look up! 

85 lbs, that's a beast. I guess if you can lift it onto the log it should self feed nicely. Careful with the back.

Hurry up and get that hand better so we can see some pictures of milling!


----------



## BobL

gemniii said:


> Does that mass include a full aux oiler?



Nope - forgot the oiler - add another two lbs, or add oiler and replace the 076 with the 880 and it will stay at 85 lbs.


----------



## BobL

Here's a short vid of the outboard nose reacting to tweaking the throttle on the 880.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asfa9iYHKts
When I wind it up it reaches 11200 rpm ,- the H screw needs to be opned just a tad to get it out of that just above the burbling zone.


----------



## 820wards

BobL said:


> Here's a short vid of the outboard nose reacting to tweaking the throttle on the 880.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asfa9iYHKts
> When I wind it up it reaches 11200 rpm ,- the H screw needs to be opned just a tad to get it out of that just above the burbling zone.




Bob,

Your new mill looks nice, I'm sure your itching to give it a try. I was looking at the spring on the nose. It appears to be a small engine spring, am I right? 

If you need strong springs, try some automotive valve springs that also use a second inter spring. Something off a big motor would be preferable. Most small block Ford/GM V8 engines have installed spring weights of 140-180 foot pounds. When compressed the spring weight at .500" lift can go up to 380-450 foot pounds. Just a spring suggestion. You could use a stock spring retainer on each end or machine a retainer to fit each end of the spring.

jerry-


----------



## BobL

820wards said:


> Bob,
> Your new mill looks nice, I'm sure your itching to give it a try. I was looking at the spring on the nose. It appears to be a small engine spring, am I right?


Yep - they're from a MC but I don't know which make or model. 



> If you need strong springs, try some automotive valve springs that also use a second inter spring. Something off a big motor would be preferable. Most small block Ford/GM V8 engines have installed spring weights of 140-180 foot pounds. When compressed the spring weight at .500" lift can go up to 380-450 foot pounds. Just a spring suggestion.


I have a couple of thicker springs which I'll try if these don't work.



> You could use a stock spring retainer on each end or machine a retainer to fit each end of the spring.


Good idea about using proper retainers I'll turn some up when I go back to work next week.


----------



## BobL

Daninvan said:


> New mill, new van, workshop extension, I'm liking the way things are starting to look up!
> 
> 85 lbs, that's a beast. I guess if you can lift it onto the log it should self feed nicely. Careful with the back.
> 
> Hurry up and get that hand better so we can see some pictures of milling!



Hand is OK for short bursts on the mill - I've been toting the B3M around the back garden in short bursts yesterday and today and my hand seems like it's doing OK. The problem would be moving the slabs - even though I use a forklift there is still a fair bit of maneuvering of large pieces of wood that weight a lot more than 85 lb.

New shed extension will be really handy. SWMBO is happy too since it means that I can get the bandsaw and thicknesser off the back veranda and the metal work lathe out of the car port. Stll a fair bit of work to do though.


----------



## BobL

Here was spring loaded outboard nose 





Following a suggestion from Jerry machined up some custom spring retainers - so here they are.









And here's the 2 pint aux oiler made from the usual garden reticulation products.


----------



## polardoo

How about a travel limiter inside the springs allowing tension and movement but hopfully no derailment? On a side note I am working on an Orline chainsaw(about the smallest saw made) and it has a spring bar adjuster and no screw.


----------



## DRB

That looks better BobL. Nice machine work.


----------



## huskyhank

EXCELLENT !!!

I'd rep you but it won't let me.


----------



## BobL

polardoo said:


> How about a travel limiter inside the springs allowing tension and movement but hopfully no derailment? On a side note I am working on an Orline chainsaw(about the smallest saw made) and it has a spring bar adjuster and no screw.



Good idea. If I could work out what maximum chain tension a chain could sustain and then find the right springs that delivered that tension in their fully closed state then best way to set this up would be with the springs fully closed and then no travel limiter would be needed and it would correspondingly reduce the chances of derailment.

The primary purpose of the springs is to take up the chain slack dues to chain expansion as the chain warms up. This is a problems particularly at the start of a cut in dry hard Aussie hardwoods when the chains warms up and expands much faster than the bar. The other time is near the end of a long wide cut when the chain is getting blunt and its temperature and expansion further increases.

If you can do it I wouldn't mind seeing a picture of the Orline chain adjust mechanism.


----------



## polardoo

It is very simple, there is a long cotter key in place of the adjuster screw and a fairly stout spring behind the tang that goes into the bar. I havent actually put the bar on yet to see if it is a challenge to get it all on.


----------



## BobL

polardoo said:


> It is very simple, there is a long cotter key in place of the adjuster screw and a fairly stout spring behind the tang that goes into the bar. I havent actually put the bar on yet to see if it is a challenge to get it all on.



Thanks


----------



## 820wards

BobL said:


> Here was spring loaded outboard nose
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Following a suggestion from Jerry machined up some custom spring retainers - so here they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bob,
> 
> The retainers look great. They will keep the spring from walking from side to side. Doss the spring seam to have better spring tension now to keep the nose piece from recoiling when you rev the motor?
> 
> Also, the next time you take the clutch off your 088, could you measure the crankshaft OD. I'm trying to find a clutch rim that will accept a shaft diameter of 5/8" (.625") and is a 3-1/2" diameter clutch rim. Thanks
> 
> I can't find any info listing the crankshaft diameters for various saws.
> 
> 
> jerry-


----------



## BobL

820wards said:


> The retainers look great. They will keep the spring from walking from side to side. Doss the spring seam to have better spring tension now to keep the nose piece from recoiling when you rev the motor?


Thanks jerry, I have been so busy I haven't had time to try it out yet.



> Also, the next time you take the clutch off your 088, could you measure the crankshaft OD. I'm trying to find a clutch rim that will accept a shaft diameter of 5/8" (.625") and is a 3-1/2" diameter clutch rim.



You might be better off posting this on the CS forum because it will hopefully be a while before I have to do that.


----------



## 820wards

BobL said:


> Thanks jerry, I have been so busy I haven't had time to try it out yet.



Let us know when you do.




BobL said:


> You might be better off posting this on the CS forum because it will hopefully be a while before I have to do that.



Will do.

jerry-


----------



## BobL

*B#M jockey wheels*

The wheels and axels come from a beat up cement mixer frame I picked up on the verge about 20 houses down our street during one of our twice annually city council major garbage pick ups. The strange thing about the cement mixer was the near new set of wheels on it. Frame is made up from some SHS scraps I had left over from another project. Like the wheels in the BIL mill they temporarily bolt onto the T-track of the mill rails. 
















So, it's all ready to go mill wood, but my van insurance people are still sorting out my case so still no van to take the new mill to the milling site. Besides, it's going to be 95 F today so I think I'll be staying inside in the air conditioning.


----------



## DRB

Looks like a tank. To hot already. I bet you wish you were back in Calgary?

Looking forward to seeing it mill.opcorn:


----------



## BobL

DRB said:


> Looks like a tank.


Yeah it does - I', still trying to figure out where to put the artillery piece!



> To hot already. I bet you wish you were back in Calgary?


Yes - and no. I like this time of the year here - the mornings are still cool and theres bit of an easterly breeze. If I get up early enough I can get a few things done in the shed or outside, even milling up to mid-day is possible since the heat is fairly dry and I'm prepared to sweat if I'm enjoying myself. Sometime in Feb it becomes more humid and then it's too uncomfortable 



> Looking forward to seeing it mill.opcorn:


So am I


----------



## 820wards

BobL said:


> http://www.arboristsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=159676&stc=1&d=1290903133[/IMG[/QUOTE]
> 
> Bob,
> 
> You could put a steering wheel and a roll bar on it and race it in that Down Under GT Racing Series. Right hand drive though...
> 
> jerry-


----------



## gemniii

C'mon Bob, beef up the tires, get a transmission in there and drive it off the powerhead.

Next thing - CSM races.


----------



## WidowMaker1

BobL said:


> So far there's nothing really different with the design of this mill so I thought I'd throw in something different and just play with it and see if I can get it to work.
> 
> Here's a shot of the nose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a close up of the top part of the nose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the view from the end of the mill
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here's the underneath.


 hey bud ,did you ever take this out for a run??? looks like a win :msp_thumbsup:


----------



## BobL

WidowMaker1 said:


> hey bud ,did you ever take this out for a run??? looks like a win :msp_thumbsup:



Nup - It's still 99% finished and sitting in my shed - never been used in anger - I'm waiting for my health to improve before I do any milling. Could be soon.


----------



## WidowMaker1

BobL said:


> Nup - It's still 99% finished and sitting in my shed - never been used in anger - I'm waiting for my health to improve before I do any milling. Could be soon.


 well hope you get the chaps back on soon mate ,your threads/milling ideas are true blue aussie innovation. let us know how she works out ...cheers


----------



## BobL

WidowMaker1 said:


> well hope you get the chaps back on soon mate ,your threads/milling ideas are true blue aussie innovation. let us know how she works out ...cheers



Cheers mate - Building myself a new workshop, my day job, and health issues have really put a dent in my milling this year. I need to get the workshop at least into the home straight so I can get back to some milling. I started about this time last year building and re-fitting my workshop by adding a 20 x 13 ft wing to an 30+ year old 17 x 12 ft space. Now the 20 x 13 space is more or less complete I'm gutting the old space and redoing the floor and inner and outer walls. I know this is an arse-about way of doing stuff but the city would let me gut the old workshop and put up a totally new one - the reasons are long and complicated but it did solve the problem of what to do with my stuff ie build an extension - put all the junk from the old one into the new one - and then rebuilding the old one. Remember I live about a mile from central Perth on a tiny 1/8th of an acre.

Spent the last weekend ripping up the concrete floor with a sledge hammer and carrying the bits out by barrow to the front (I have no side or rear vehicular access) which tested out my body. It reached about 95º and high humidity so I was totally knackered by the end of the day. The old floor was not level as it had slumped in one corner and besides it was a dodgy pour I did 33 years ago. Now I gotta bring back 4-5 wheelbarrows of brickies sand and the concretor is coming early next week to put down a new floor. Then I want to insulate and line the old walls and clad the outside in the same colorbond as the new one. So still a fair bit to do.


----------



## john taliaferro

Good to here your better , we need some new pictures . Do be careful in the heat .


----------



## hamish

The goal at the end is so darn worth it as it that ice cold pint at the end of the day!


----------



## Can8ianTimber

Bob, By the time you are done with demolition of concrete and hauling it by hand, chain saw milling is going to seam like a day off at the beach. Good luck, I am sure you are going to love your expanded shop.


----------



## Fallguy1960

Bob do you have any updates on your B3 mill project and the new shop? I always enjoy watching your projects progress. You seem to be able to figure a way to get 12 pounds in a 10 pound sack and still have room to work.


----------



## BobL

Fallguy1960 said:


> Bob do you have any updates on your B3 mill project and the new shop? I always enjoy watching your projects progress. You seem to be able to figure a way to get 12 pounds in a 10 pound sack and still have room to work.



No more updates I'm afraid. The B3M is inside my new shop which I am still working on. 

I'm still madly building things like this welding bench and welding bay fume hood






I also built a turret stand for 3 grinders - the top can be rotated to bring the grinder of interest to the front and the locked into place





Oh yeah I also made this steel banding dispenser for packing up lumber





Behind the stand you can see the new wood work lathe bench I am working on at the moment.
I'm also converting the single phase WW lathe to 3 Phase via a VSD.

Here's something smaller, a stand and tool post for a small rotary table for my metal work lathe. I also blued the steel.


----------



## BobL

More pics

This is a metal milling attachment for my metal work lathe 





I've painted the right angle bracket but I will blue the steel on the vice itself.


----------



## FJH

*has anyone atemped building a band roller yet*

I haven't Been here for quite awhile has anyone attented building a blade roller yet simular to the cooks roller which they seemed to have quit pushing for what ever reason!? Ive got the makings for it I just got to get time to get at it!


----------



## Fallguy1960

Love that Grinder stand Bob. That is exactly the kind of space save rig the doubles that work space in a small shop.


----------



## hamish

Bob,

Care to take a few more pictures of your grinder turret stand, mainly of the turret part and what is your locking mech?

No sense me cutting more steel and having more pints than required for the job, ok its about the steel, the pints just happen!

Jeremy


----------



## BobL

hamish said:


> Bob,
> Care to take a few more pictures of your grinder turret stand, mainly of the turret part and what is your locking mech?


As requested.

Main Bearing





Top plate





Band brake





Arms





Handles


----------



## BobL

Couple more pics.

Grinders can be oriented sideways as well.





View from above





Cross section plan


----------



## PhilB

Good looking grinder turret stand. Nice work. I like to swivel lock.

Phil


----------



## Yellowbeard

We should use this thread as a public service announcement: Warning, this is what CAD can lead to. 

Seriously, though, I wish my students had half your ingenuity and interest. I bet if I could talk the students into letting them play with chainsaws then they would be more interested in being in my class. Now how can I use this in biology? Hmmmm.......


----------



## BobL

Yellowbeard said:


> We should use this thread as a public service announcement: Warning, this is what CAD can lead to.


The primary urge is to "make stuff", so my CAD arose from that.



> Seriously, though, I wish my students had half your ingenuity and interest. I bet if I could talk the students into letting them play with chainsaws then they would be more interested in being in my class. Now how can I use this in biology? Hmmmm.......



I don't know about using a chainsaw, but a couple of 60" bars leaned up against your desk while talking to recalcitrant students can get through to some of them :biggrin:

Do you use roadkill in your classes. A biology teacher I knew had to drive 30 miles on back roads to get to work and he used to pick up small fresh road kill and bring these to class. He would then lay out a couple of sheets of butchers paper and place the roadkill in the middle - over time the bugs and parasites on the dead animal would leave and start to migrate across the paper. After about an hour or so there would be a series of rings of tiny critters which the students could sample by placing a string of adhesive tap radially outwards from the kill. These were then looked at under a microscope - hours of fun for all!


----------



## whitworthsocket

*Progress Report?*

Hello Bob,
How is the new Mill and the shed coming along?
I would like to ask you where you bought your chainsaw tachometers from and any comments - Pro's and Con's of fitting and use.

Regards Colin M


----------



## BobL

whitworthsocket said:


> Hello Bob,
> How is the new Mill and the shed coming along?
> I would like to ask you where you bought your chainsaw tachometers from and any comments - Pro's and Con's of fitting and use.
> 
> Regards Colin M



Hi there,

I still haven't used the new mill.
Milling at the tree loppers yard has stalled due to spending time setting up a wood processing area. I have bought a second shipping container and and going to park it near the other one and put a roof up between the two for a bit of a wood processing area. 
New shed is great. I have made myself a natural gas powered forge and finally have the gas line down to the shed. 
Here's a pic of it when I had it on the back veranda.




I have fired it up a couple of times in the shed but the shed got really really hot so I had to upgrade the ventilation. 
I'm currently making a few black smithing tools.

Re: Tacho
I have bought two fully sealed units from Baileys and one with a replaceable battery from some one from the chainsaw forum.
The first one from died after a couple of years use.
I don't know if it really died or the battery just went flat.
I think it might have been because I had it permanently mounted on the saw under a tarp in the hot sun for almost the whole summer.
I then went for the velcro mount system so that I could take it off the saw and move it to other saws and also take it inside to keep it out of the sun.
The one I bought from the "some one else from the chainsaw forum" refreshes a bit to slow for my liking, the baileys one is better from that point of view.


----------



## whitworthsocket

Bob,
Thanks for the prompt response.
I was looking at buying a chinese tacho. Will try your sources first.
You are the Aust CS milling Guru.
I have similar experience with gas forges.
If you want to get it hotter quicker I can help.
Will take photo's tomorrow morning.

Regards Colin


----------



## BobL

whitworthsocket said:


> Bob,
> Thanks for the prompt response.
> I was looking at buying a chinese tacho. Will try your sources first.
> You are the Aust CS milling Guru.



Thanks for the kind words but there are folks here with a lot more experience than mine. For example old timers that have done this for a living are more the guru type.



> I have similar experience with gas forges.
> If you want to get it hotter quicker I can help.



Im pretty happy with how quickly the forge heats metal in that it get's hot enough to forge in about 5 minutes but I would be interested in hearing what you have to say. Natural gas has a low energy content and to get it burning efficiently a blower is needed which means a lot of hot air flying around.


----------



## whitworthsocket

*Blacksmithing*

Bob,
I am going way off topic here so I will PM you about this
Regards Col


----------



## Timberframed

Hey there Bobl, Good to see you're back in the saddle with a new venture. It is pleasing to know that others are into other things and it's what makes the world spin. Any funnel web or tiger snake problems of late? We will have a sand wasp problem after brood 3 hatchings of cicadas. 17 years under the ground and they're are coming out now in NE USA Stingers measure 9/16" Captured a few out of curiosity. Thankfully they are domocile. TF.


----------



## BobL

Timberframed said:


> Hey there Bobl, Good to see you're back in the saddle with a new venture. It is pleasing to know that others are into other things and it's what makes the world spin. Any funnel web or tiger snake problems of late?


We don't have funnel web spiders here on my side of the country but we do have "red backs" a nasty version of the "black widow". When I went down to the milling yard recently I found that someone had run over and bent two of my milling rails (My fault really as I had put them in a poor location relative to all the vehicle movements around the yard) so I picked them up and put them in my van and took them home for a bit of straightening. When I finally got around to looking at them I notice that they both had red back spider nests inside them. One had two nests and one had about 8 nests - all had a resident red back in them. These things are everywhere - I'll bet if I go and look in our garden I can find one right now. The place they love is inside hollow bits of plastic garden chairs and tables.

I haven't seen a snake in a while. The new milling yard has piles of junk which are very likely to have snakes in there somewhere. The most common snake in the area is likely to be a Dugite which are very poisons but fortunately timid so they run away but I won't take my dogs there in spring or summer as the dogs will ferret them out and want to play. Winter time is fine as they are all hibernating.


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