# Advice needed for big redwoods



## 2dogs (Dec 15, 2008)

I have to take this and 3 other redwood trees down in the next week or two. Where the flagging is the tree is about 9' in diameter. 20" up it forks into 2 stems. The tree is about 160' to 175' tall. The problem is it is an old growth that fire has burned out, probably several times. You can see there is not much rind holding the tree up near the ground and I am guessing it has extensive heart rot. The cavity is about 5' high. 

It is also near a building. And the owner wants to salvage as much wood as possible. Plus it is on the bank of a small river that we can not drive in at all even though it is just gravel.

My plan, assuming I can't talk the owner out of salvaging the tree, is to climb it and take it out in 8' to 12' long pieces with a lowering device. Otherwise I could fall it into the hill behind it a pull it down with a dozer. That is what I am going to do with the tree on the far right and the leaner behind the building.

Am I missing something here? Any other ideas? BTW it took over 4 months to get a permit from the county. We wanted to take down 20+ redwoods and were granted 4.


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## clearance (Dec 15, 2008)

Your idea is right, fall it uphill and yard it back down with a cat or whatever. Don't be lowering logs out of it, thats just silly.


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## blackoak (Dec 15, 2008)

2dogs said:


> I have to take this and 3 other redwood trees down in the next week or two. Where the flagging is the tree is about 9' in diameter. 20" up it forks into 2 stems. The tree is about 160' to 175' tall. The problem is it is an old growth that fire has burned out, probably several times. You can see there is not much rind holding the tree up near the ground and I am guessing it has extensive heart rot. The cavity is about 5' high.
> 
> It is also near a building. And the owner wants to salvage as much wood as possible. Plus it is on the bank of a small river that we can not drive in at all even though it is just gravel.
> 
> ...



Wow, I would give my left nut to be there and watch you take them down. What saw are you going to use to do this and what size bar? Good luck and please post some pictures of you doing it. I can not imagine taking on a job like that.


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## Tree Sling'r (Dec 15, 2008)

Get into some solid wood and put it up the hill, that is where your longest ground is, to the left of the bluff. It should be solid above the cat face, redwood is pretty good about staying solid.


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## forestryworks (Dec 15, 2008)

springboards?


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## Jacob J. (Dec 15, 2008)

Tree Sling'r said:


> Get into some solid wood and put it up the hill, that is where your longest ground is, to the left of the bluff. It should be solid above the cat face, redwood is pretty good about staying solid.



+1. You're talking about lowering big wood and you'd most likely need a crane for that. Manhandling wood that size with a lowering device is a real pain in the a55 and dangerous to boot. I've done big Pine with a GCRS and almost lost an arm doing it. 

Once it's on the hill you can buck it into the lengths you need and pull it down, or pull the stem down and buck lengths out of it once you get it near the bottom. I'm not envious of this job, it's going to be real tricky.


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## RDT (Dec 15, 2008)

:jawdrop:


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## Gologit (Dec 15, 2008)

Another vote for dropping it up the hill. I don't know much about lowering wood but how heavy would a 12' piece be? And how controllable would it be if it started to run?


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## Frank Boyer (Dec 15, 2008)

When are you going to drop it. I would love to see that. I am a few miles from you. Looks like Felton or Boulder Creek.


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## 056 kid (Dec 15, 2008)

I have seen pictures where hollow redwoods had steel plates bolted to the tree with cable connecting them. Used for a hinge since wood wasent there.


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## Tree Sling'r (Dec 15, 2008)

I wanted to add, if you do put it up the hill, snipe the stump (I assume you know what I mean) so that the butt of the tree slips off and hits before the top does - much better chace of saving out that brittle redwood.
Also, the catface is on the bluff side of the tree, it will want to go over that cat face, another reason to get up into some solid wood above the CF.


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## forestryworks (Dec 15, 2008)

i'm assuming a gap face is gonna work better in this situation?


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## treejunkie13 (Dec 15, 2008)

056 kid said:


> I have seen pictures where hollow redwoods had steel plates bolted to the tree with cable connecting them. Used for a hinge since wood wasent there.



I would like 2 c that.

& pics of this job gettin done 2, vary few people get 2 play with trees like that.


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## 2dogs (Dec 16, 2008)

Tree Sling'r said:


> Get into some solid wood and put it up the hill, that is where your longest ground is, to the left of the bluff. It should be solid above the cat face, redwood is pretty good about staying solid.



Most of this old growth has burned in the past and has heart rot and shatters length wise. Any stumps are all hollow.

As you can see from the pic the tree is hollow at the base. You can see right through to the other side. The tree is standing on a rind maybe a foot thick , open to the front by 5 feet and to the back by 2 feet. There is no hinge wood in the burned out core where the heart should be. I would have to wrap the tree with chain once or twice above the cut and then make my face cut 6' to 8' above the ground. Ripping the union seems out of the question since the tree would come apart. 

Another alternative, the one I would normally choose, would be to fall the tree into the river by facing the tree by cutting into the semicircle of rind. The problem is if the tree breaks apart it would fall onto the building. I could pull it from across the river. The problem is getting the tree out of the river before the fish cops show up.

I think I will have to pull it even if I fall it up the hill. That will take 300 or so feet of rope or wire rope but I have that much and more.

BTW the next tree is a 4' fir that had a big conch growing on it till it recently fell off. The tree is growing like a cork screw and is within striking distance of a brand new very large building. After that tree are a few head leaners, both redwood and fir.


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## Tree Sling'r (Dec 16, 2008)

I think the first thing I would do is get up above the catface and bore it, there you can see what you have to work with.
From the pic, it looks like the marm on the left has enough of a lean to go up the hill, but it may look different in person.
But, no matter where she leans it will wanna go over the cat face, that is why I was hoping you would have have solid wood above the cat face.
Have I lost you yet?


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## 2dogs (Dec 16, 2008)

Tree Sling'r said:


> I think the first thing I would do is get up above the catface and bore it, there you can see what you have to work with.
> From the pic, it looks like the marm on the left has enough of a lean to go up the hill, but it may look different in person.
> But, no matter where she leans it will wanna go over the cat face, that is why I was hoping you would have have solid wood above the cat face.
> Have I lost you yet?



I'm with you 100%. I should have bored it yesterday but I didn't have any climbing gear with me.
Edited to add: I don't even have a flip line long enough to go around this tree.


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## Cowboy Billy (Dec 16, 2008)

It would be great if you could set up a video camra and tape it as you take it down. I would love to see it come down.

Billy


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## 2dogs (Dec 16, 2008)

Cowboy Billy said:


> It would be great if you could set up a video camra and tape it as you take it down. I would love to see it come down.
> 
> Billy



No Way. I don't want to show my whimpering as I start the job.


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## tomtrees58 (Dec 16, 2008)

clearance said:


> Your idea is right, fall it uphill and yard it back down with a cat or whatever. Don't be lowering logs out of it, that's just silly.



your no tree guy yes you can rig it too the other trees or private message me i can tell you more tom trees


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## slowp (Dec 16, 2008)

2dogs said:


> No Way. I don't want to show my whimpering as I start the job.



It isn't whimpering. It is called, going over the plan with yourself in an emotional way.  I know nothing about such trees, so I can only wish you good luck and have your escape figured out.


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## RandyMac (Dec 16, 2008)

Just a typical rotten, burnt, school marm Redwood. Angle your cuts so the tree is parallel to the ground before contacting the stump, a narrow block (12-18 inch) cut, with a 50% snipe, like Smoke suggested. A wide open face cut isn't indicated here, there is a risk of the tree staying on the stump. From what the photos show, a jack would be good to have, even if you don't use it. It would be better to put the cuts 5 to 6 feet up on the stump, I have access to some staging, but I think ground level will work. I can draw you some diagrams, if you think that would help, maybe I can come down and help a bit.

Looks like fun, best of luck


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## Jacob J. (Dec 16, 2008)

2dogs said:


> I'm with you 100%. I should have bored it yesterday but I didn't have any climbing gear with me.
> Edited to add: I don't even have a flip line long enough to go around this tree.



That's a lot of flipline to be manhandling around a 9 foot diameter Redwood. I think the longest flipline I have is 16' steel core manila and it's a struggle when I have enough wood to use most of that length.


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## 2dogs (Dec 16, 2008)

tomtrees58 said:


> your no tree guy yes you can rig it too the other trees or private message me i can tell you more tom trees



Huh?


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## 2dogs (Dec 16, 2008)

RandyMac said:


> Just a typical rotten, burnt, school marm Redwood. Angle your cuts so the tree is parallel to the ground before contacting the stump, a narrow block (12-18 inch) cut, with a 50% snipe, like Smoke suggested. A wide open face cut isn't indicated here, there is a risk of the tree staying on the stump. From what the photos show, a jack would be good to have, even if you don't use it. It would be better to put the cuts 5 to 6 feet up on the stump, I have access to some staging, but I think ground level will work. I can draw you some diagrams, if you think that would help, maybe I can come down and help a bit.
> 
> Looks like fun, best of luck



If I fall the tree into the hillside it will be at a 45o angle when it contacts the slope. The slope is well over 100% and it mostly rock.


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## Jacob J. (Dec 16, 2008)

RandyMac said:


> maybe I can come down and help a bit.
> 
> Looks like fun, best of luck



+1, if you need another set of hands I can bring some big jacks and my climbing gear also. Looking at the pictures, I can't say that there would be enough integrity on the stump to use jacks. A person might exert enough force to break out through cat face underneath unless they went really high on the stump. Does your permit allow for the felling of smaller trees if they poze a hazard to the removal of the four big ones?


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## RandyMac (Dec 16, 2008)

Hey JJ, pick me up on your way by.


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## clearance (Dec 16, 2008)

tomtrees58 said:


> your no tree guy yes you can rig it too the other trees or private message me i can tell you more tom trees



.


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## Jacob J. (Dec 16, 2008)

RandyMac said:


> Hey JJ, pick me up on your way by.



Randy- I'll do it. I'll also bring some Macs and parts for your pile. :greenchainsaw:


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## oldirty (Dec 16, 2008)

hey 2dogs. please bring the camera when you boys go out to play. i would love to see what you plan on doing to these things.

sweet.


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## BuddhaKat (Dec 16, 2008)

Just be careful. Something like this would scare the crap outta me. Way, way, way out of my league.


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## joesawer (Dec 17, 2008)

Another vote for falling it whole. I wouldn't even begin to drop and catch on that rind. A 100 ton crane would be the only way I would try to take merch logs out of that tree.
You can tie a cats paw in your D ring with your climbing line or tie a prussick around your climbing line and use it for a very long lanyard. But I really wouldn't want to be tied to that stump after the tree started tipping.
In the pics it looks like the union is pretty solid. If there is any reasonable doubt, you might want to climb up it and tie them together.
Slinger is right, the tree will want to set down into the cat face. especially if it is anywhere close to being under your hinge. 
Wish I was closer, I would like to see you do it and could loan you a set of 40ton rams.
Have fun and be careful.


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## 2dogs (Dec 21, 2008)

OK I admit it I'm an idiot. The tree has three stems, not two. The first pic shows them fairly well. Here are a few more pics I took yesterday.

This first pic shows the main stem and the right spar. The hidden one one the left is the smallest.







This one shows my son Cody standing at the goosepen. He is 5'9" tall. My back is to the river.






Here is a stump and butt log laying in a road to the water system. This stuff is heavy!






This one is me bucking a fire scrred blow down. It was too heavy for the backhoe to move in one piece so I bucked it into 20' lengths. This was taken about noon.


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## Gologit (Dec 21, 2008)

Good pics. Are those Viking boots and if so how do you like them?


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## 2dogs (Dec 22, 2008)

Gologit said:


> Good pics. Are those Viking boots and if so how do you like them?




Yes they are Viking Vibram sole boots. I like them alot. I wear a 9.5 and these are size 10 and a bit loose but not too bad. They are heavy until you get used to them. The funny thing about them is all the tame cows want to smell them. I guess they look like food.


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## Gologit (Dec 22, 2008)

2dogs said:


> Yes they are Viking Vibram sole boots. I like them alot. I wear a 9.5 and these are size 10 and a bit loose but not too bad. They are heavy until you get used to them. The funny thing about them is all the tame cows want to smell them. I guess they look like food.



LOL...If I get some I'll stay away from the cows. I have a job coming up where we'll be working in the snow and I've been thinking about those with the caulks. I don't care how much grease I put on my leather caulks, snow water gets in anyway.:censored: 

When are you going to drop that goose-pen tree? I'd like to watch that.


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## 056 kid (Dec 22, 2008)

Gologit said:


> LOL...If I get some I'll stay away from the cows. I have a job coming up where we'll be working in the snow and I've been thinking about those with the caulks. I don't care how much grease I put on my leather caulks, snow water gets in anyway.:censored:
> 
> When are you going to drop that goose-pen tree? I'd like to watch that.




danm right about grease, i want some hoffmans.



the removing of thoes trees should be closely documented via youtube!!


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## slowp (Dec 22, 2008)

Gologit said:


> Good pics. Are those Viking boots and if so how do you like them?



I have the orange ones. I don't care for the color. They are holding up way better than their lace up ones did. But, in the words of the tooth shy hooktender, "They make your feet thweat." I have been wearing them on snow shoveling duty. They may not work well in mud, but are like studded tires on the ice. I haven't tried to cut my foot off or anything yet so don't know about all the protective stuff they have. I bought them because they are rubber caulks, and they had them in my size...NO COMMENTS. 

They actually have more support than my blown out wescos. I just have the wool felt insoles in them. And you gots to use the boot dryer every night due to the thweating.


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## treemandan (Dec 22, 2008)

I don't know but if you dropped them uphill wouldn't there be a chance they would slide back down into the house?
That would be my only concern there. If you can't get a good notch in the hollow one I will climb it for ya. It might be bigger than what I am used to but there looks to suffecient rig points and if you have the right guy on the hobbs you're all set for easy 10 1/2 feet.


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## treemandan (Dec 22, 2008)

I am confused about where you are allowed to drive the dozer. I thought you said you couldn't drive down there.
I also would like to suggest ( but I don't know if possible) to drop them right in front of the little house. Those are small redwoods? They don't look that big, the house looks small. So the tips land in the stream, yank em out. If you can drive where you need to that is.


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## ropensaddle (Dec 22, 2008)

Helicopter? I wish that was my cabin I believe I would at least get to the
solid wood before felling that tree. I am very ignorant to the properties of redwood but forces are the same for any species. Anyway please forget 
your whimpering and post pics of that job in progress so we can whimper 
with you! I could not see taking that down for less than ten grand and I
may be on the low side?


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## 056 kid (Dec 22, 2008)

From pictures of stumps... They look pretty brittle as far as hinge wood.



one thought on cutting high, will the force of cutting the stem say 25' push the lower portion in the opposite direction?

If so maby a happy mediem between wood and heigth can be found. 

Seeing pics is miles away from walking circles with a plum bob, wish i was there!


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## oldirty (Dec 23, 2008)

you west coast guys are calling that hollow a cat face, correct?


i am sitting here looking at the base of that tree wondering how the heck that tree is even standing with out any wood underneath it. man, thats crazy.



like the 056kid says. some serious documentation would be outstanding.


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## 2dogs (Dec 23, 2008)

oldirty said:


> you west coast guys are calling that hollow a cat face, correct?
> 
> 
> i am sitting here looking at the base of that tree wondering how the heck that tree is even standing with out any wood underneath it. man, thats crazy.
> ...



I call it a goosepen because it a very large opening into the tree. I call a cat face something more akin to a scar and not more than a foot or two deep. The rind (ring) of wood holding up the tree is generally healthy and strong but difficult how to figure out how to cut to make the tree fall safely.

BTW I am going to meet with the county New Years eve (weather permitting)for yet another look see before the permit is issued.


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## ropensaddle (Dec 23, 2008)

2dogs said:


> I call it a goosepen because it a very large opening into the tree. I call a cat face something more akin to a scar and not more than a foot or two deep. The rind (ring) of wood holding up the tree is generally healthy and strong but difficult how to figure out how to cut to make the tree fall safely.
> 
> BTW I am going to meet with the county New Years eve (weather permitting)for yet another look see before the permit is issued.



2dogs post pics for us less fortunate tree suckas, forget your whimpering
please; as most that have been in those situations understand and the rest
don't matter anyway. Whatever you decide be safe, those forces could have a potential to do grave harm so watch your top knot please.


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## 2dogs (Dec 23, 2008)

ropensaddle said:


> 2dogs post pics for us less fortunate tree suckas, forget your whimpering
> please; as most that have been in those situations understand and the rest
> don't matter anyway. Whatever you decide be safe, those forces could have a potential to do grave harm so watch your top knot please.



Man I have been taking some grief today! First here and then in the chainsaw forum. Both regarding safety issues. I guess I'm a wimp after all.


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## RandyMac (Dec 23, 2008)

You are not a wimp, some things need thought before commencing, this is clearly one of them. Rotten, multi-stem Redwoods, I have felled several, never with a building close by. What kind of ground is just uphill of that cabin, right behind it at an angle uphill?
I used to wander through the timber, checking a couple days ahead, some trees got special attention, planning and nerve raising.


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## Gologit (Dec 23, 2008)

2dogs said:


> Man I have been taking some grief today! First here and then in the chainsaw forum. Both regarding safety issues. I guess I'm a wimp after all.



I don't think so. Some guys don't know what to say so they just say "be careful". There's a lot more left unsaid in those two words but I think the sentiment is genuine.

Now go cut the damn tree.


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## ropensaddle (Dec 23, 2008)

2dogs said:


> Man I have been taking some grief today! First here and then in the chainsaw forum. Both regarding safety issues. I guess I'm a wimp after all.



No 2dogs you are not taking grief from me at all we just want to see is all.
I also want you to come out ok but no grief. In your pics you have several
reasons to be safe. I have not seen your work but I assume you are safe.
In order to do those type jobs skill must be mastered to effectively bring
them down without loss of life and property damage and I trust your up
to the challenge and definately no wimp. In my opinion a wimp is someone 
who never tries and a brave studies the situation and comes up with the
best plan and then executes it and even if fear steps up he overcomes
it with technique and skill. We wish to see this skill in action and that in
no way is giving you grief just plain professional empathy.


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## Gologit (Dec 23, 2008)

ropensaddle said:


> No 2dogs you are not taking grief from me at all we just want to see is all.
> I also want you to come out ok but no grief in your pics you have several
> reasons to be safe. I have not seen your work but I assume you are safe.
> In order to do those type jobs skill must be mastered to effectively bring
> ...



Professional empathy, maybe?


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## ropensaddle (Dec 23, 2008)

Gologit said:


> Professional empathy, maybe?



See what happens when a redneck tries to be politically correct


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## rbtree (Dec 23, 2008)

After viewing all the photos, it's obvious that the single stem away from the house has to be dealt with separately. Perhaps the other secondary one as well, which leans closer to the cabin. Given their relatively small size, it might be safe ( I say might, as the strength of the main stem is unknown) to tip tie and lift off 12 footers, using the main stem as spar. weight of those would approach 2500 lb near the unions, which would be fine if angle cuts were made. (hard to lift that much with a GRCS.) You'd need a longer strap as well for it, and a full static line. Then fall the main stem, but it does appear that there's a safe drop zone for 12 footers. If the decision were made to fell the main and left stem as one, it would be a good idea to tie the two tops together.

Get in touch with Gerry Beranek, he's the man for trees like that. Or my top climber, who's currently working in Orinda...tho the GRCS is in my garage.


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## ropensaddle (Dec 24, 2008)

I think I would fall one lead at a time but pictures are not like being there.
I would be a little Leary of rigging to that co dominant with the degree of
rot and weight transfer. One thing I was wondering is there even a hole to 
fell the stems in the jungle on the hill? If they only allow 4 to be cut did that box you in and what would be the result of damaging the smaller growth in the line of felling? I also would want enough pull to move the stem in the desired direction but not so much that it tears out.


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## Bushler (Dec 24, 2008)

Start saw, cut face, cut back cut,.... run.


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## RandyMac (Dec 24, 2008)

Bushler said:


> Start saw, cut face, cut back cut,.... run.



Yep.


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## Gologit (Dec 24, 2008)

Bushler said:


> Start saw, cut face, cut back cut,.... run.



LOL...Yup...and run FAST.


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## ropensaddle (Dec 24, 2008)

Gologit said:


> LOL...Yup...and run FAST.



Baaaaaaaak baaaaaaaaaaaaaak baaaaaaaaaaaaaaak


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## matt9923 (Dec 28, 2008)

idk about you but i feel better when the whole trees on the ground and not lowering 12' sections 130+ feet of teh ground. Drop it uphill and dont forget to run :hmm3grin2orange:


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## hammerlogging (Jan 1, 2009)

Good luck with these, looks like a fun couple of trees, I guess the job is coming right up. I hope you just drop them, no climbing, 45 degrees up hill- doesn't lool like a good one to me. It looks like there's another burnt out one up the hill in the drop zone, maybe it could be felled to open up you window. At any rate, I like what busheler said, in a way don't over think it. A rope up high makes a lot of sense so you don't put downward pressure on the burnt out hollow stump that could break out. It'll go. Looks a little unnerving- awfully high scaffold/springboard setup to reach sound wood, and this makes a quick escape a little harder, but still possible; it'll go. The pair I'd think will go together no problem since they split soo far up the stem. Best to you.


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## slowp (Jan 1, 2009)

Drink some coffee before you start.


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## matt9923 (Jan 1, 2009)

slowp said:


> Drink some coffee before you start.



Drink some beer after you finish.


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## forestryworks (Jan 1, 2009)

slowp said:


> Drink some coffee before you start.





matt9923 said:


> Drink some beer after you finish.



and a red bull while you're working


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## olyman (Jan 1, 2009)

forestryworks said:


> and a red bull while you're working



he aint going to have time when he starts punching it over--------


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## 2dogs (Jan 1, 2009)

I'll have to spend half the time peeing if you guys were helping!  

I met with the county inspector yesterday and got the offcial OK to take down the big triple and 3 others just uphill from it. I also found another very burnt out redwood in an area I had never been before. He thinks the feds, via his office, will give the Ok there too. This is all on 1,200 acres of private land BTW. I should schedule all this with the owners next week. I am trying to get permission from the fish police to drop the big tree in the river (10" deep and 20' wide). The river banks and the bottom are all rocks and gravel. The laws regarding riparian zones are very strict. 

I am going to use the smaller trees' logs to build working platform around the big tree. I think that will be the safest way for me to get high enough above the goosepen.


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## polexie (Jan 1, 2009)

Please shoot and post as many pictures as you can. Maybe a video?
Very exciting job!


Good luck,

Lex


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## Gologit (Jan 1, 2009)

2dogs said:


> I am going to use the smaller trees' logs to build working platform around the big tree. I think that will be the safest way for me to get high enough above the goosepen.



 The old ways are the best sometimes, aren't they?


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## forestryworks (Jan 1, 2009)

2dogs said:


> I am going to use the smaller trees' logs to build working platform around the big tree. I think that will be the safest way for me to get high enough above the goosepen.



good call


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## Tzed250 (Jan 7, 2009)

Gologit said:


> The old ways are the best sometimes, aren't they?



Because the oldtimers knew how to do more with less...


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## 2dogs (Feb 5, 2009)

Well we just received the final permits. This has been going on since last July. The slope above the only road in is sliding a little all the time and today we fianlly had some rain. Next week I should be able to set up a calendar for falling if the road holds. 

HOWEVER the latest news as of yesterday is that along with the tan oaks (tanbark oaks) all the redwood is quarantined and may not be removed from the site. This is common for tan oak because of SODS and Montery pine because of pitch canker but I have never heard of this for redwood. Ten thousand dollars worth of wood will have to stay on site. I am going to see if kiln drying will allow the lumber to be sold. If so we can mill on site and haul the lumber to a kiln here in Santa Cruz. I don't know about sterilizing all my tools either. The USDA is involved in the decision making process now.


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## wilbilt (Feb 6, 2009)

2dogs said:


> HOWEVER the latest news as of yesterday is that along with the tan oaks (tanbark oaks) all the redwood is quarantined and may not be removed from the site. This is common for tan oak because of SODS and Montery pine because of pitch canker but I have never heard of this for redwood. Ten thousand dollars worth of wood will have to stay on site. I am going to see if kiln drying will allow the lumber to be sold. If so we can mill on site and haul the lumber to a kiln here in Santa Cruz. I don't know about sterilizing all my tools either. The USDA is involved in the decision making process now.



USDA? Unbelievable. I know people complain about too much regulation all the time, but some of the examples I have read here have really opened my eyes to the extent of it. 

Best of luck.


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## KD57 (Feb 6, 2009)

Glad I live in TX, too many rules in Kalifornia. Since I have never even seen a tree that big, please video the take-down. That's some big bar wood for sure.
But I am confused about the private land thing. If it's private land, why do all the feds have to get involved?


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## Burvol (Feb 6, 2009)

KD57 said:


> Glad I live in TX, too many rules in Kalifornia. Since I have never even seen a tree that big, please video the take-down. That's some big bar wood for sure.
> But I am confused about the private land thing. If it's private land, why do all the feds have to get involved?



Because they know what's best for me and you.


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## slowp (Feb 6, 2009)

Burvol said:


> Because they know what's best for me and you.



That's true. We do....


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## smokechase II (Feb 6, 2009)

*no*

"That's true. We do......."

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Shhhhhhhh

==============

I don't know enough to comment on anything here so at least I'm going to be quiet.


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## slowp (Feb 6, 2009)

From now on, all the work you do will have to be approved by the Albuquerque Service Center. Bwah ha ha ha.....

Ok, no more from me.


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## Gologit (Feb 6, 2009)

slowp said:


> That's true. We do....



Hmmmmm...I better have some more coffee before I reply to that.


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## Burvol (Feb 6, 2009)

slowp said:


> That's true. We do....



Have a good day Slowp, I'm off. You see, on private ground we burn our oil jugs at lunch, cut wildlife trees for firewood, skid through the creeks, and just have a good ol' time at work. I'll be thinking of you and all of your damn rules.


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## slowp (Feb 6, 2009)

You forgot the old tires. They make for good lunch fires.


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## Burvol (Feb 6, 2009)

slowp said:


> You forgot the old tires. They make for good lunch fires.



Disclaimer: I'm fortunate to be working right now, and I don't condone that sort of thing...some people might take that serious.


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## slowp (Feb 6, 2009)

I remind my co workers of that working now thing. They whine too much. We have jobs and that's a good thing. I think I'll grab some yellow paint and paint firewood trees today. That'll get me out. Have a good day!


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## Bushler (Feb 6, 2009)

I know better, Jesse. You're one of the most considerate and clean working loggers I've had work for me. Not even a candy bar wrapper left in the woods.


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## Gologit (Feb 7, 2009)

2dogs said:


> Well we just received the final permits. This has been going on since last July. The slope above the only road in is sliding a little all the time and today we fianlly had some rain. Next week I should be able to set up a calendar for falling if the road holds.
> 
> HOWEVER the latest news as of yesterday is that along with the tan oaks (tanbark oaks) all the redwood is quarantined and may not be removed from the site. This is common for tan oak because of SODS and Montery pine because of pitch canker but I have never heard of this for redwood. Ten thousand dollars worth of wood will have to stay on site. I am going to see if kiln drying will allow the lumber to be sold. If so we can mill on site and haul the lumber to a kiln here in Santa Cruz. I don't know about sterilizing all my tools either. The USDA is involved in the decision making process now.



Let us know how this turns out. There's supposed to be an oak quarantine over here too but since so much of it burned last year they're not paying much attention to it.


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## 2dogs (Feb 7, 2009)

Gologit said:


> Let us know how this turns out. There's supposed to be an oak quarantine over here too but since so much of it burned last year they're not paying much attention to it.



Last night I found out that redwood is thought "to carry" the fungus that causes SOD. I don't know if that means the bark or the wood. I was told that if a redwood is near a SOD oak it won't send up stump sprouts either. This is all conjecture right now. I need to see it in writing! I should have a meeting to discuss our strategy early next week.


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## Burvol (Feb 7, 2009)

2dogs said:


> Last night I found out that redwood is thought "to carry" the fungus that causes SODS. I don't know if that means the bark or the wood. I was told that if a redwood is near a SODS oak it won't send up stump sprouts either. This is all conjecture right now. I need to see it in writing! I should have a meeting to discuss our strategy early next week.



Could you explain how SODS works?


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## brnchbrkr (Feb 8, 2009)

Burvol said:


> Could you explain how SODS works?



Google Sudden Oak Disease

First hit.

Synopsis: 
Sudden Oak Death is a recently recognized disease that is killing oaks and other plant species in the western U.S. First noticed in 1995, the disease has been confirmed in the coastal areas north and south of San Francisco, and in a relatively remote location in southwestern Oregon. The pathogen responsible for the disease, a fungus-like organism called Phytophthora ramorum, is also found in Germany and Denmark, where it is causing a recently identified disease on Rhododendron and Viburnum. 
Although in the U.S. the disease has been found only in California and Oregon, it is of great concern to land managers in the Eastern U.S. as well, because at least two eastern oak species, northern pin oak (Quercus palustris) and northern red oak (Quercus rubra), are highly susceptible to the disease when inoculated with the pathogen. Forest land managers nationwide should be aware of the symptoms of sudden oak death, and should contact a pest management specialist if they suspect that the disease is present in a new location. 

http://www.google.com/search?q=sudd...ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7GWYA_en


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## Gologit (Feb 8, 2009)

brnchbrkr said:


> Google Sudden Oak Disease
> 
> First hit.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the research. USDA claims we have it in our area but they can't seem to come up with an actual example. They're also not sure exactly what the early symptoms are. They don't seem to be able to tell us the difference between normal tree death and SODS, either.

But they're working on it. They keep telling us that.


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## smokechase II (Feb 8, 2009)

*This is weally serious*

*"Rhododendron.................. 
Although in the U.S. the disease has been found only in California and Oregon,"*

There are several species affected and Oregon stands to loose too. In short, picture the Mt Hood area without any Rhodies.

The professionals regard California as a lost cause.

==============

My understanding is when they find it there is no Guantanamo.

Straight to removal and burning of everything.

This stuff is prophesized to clean house eventually. We have no method of stopping it currently so we delay the spread until it can be figured out.


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## 2dogs (Feb 8, 2009)

Smokechase you may be right about burning. Some professionals believe the lack of potassium in the soil due to the complete supression of wildfire is weakening certain species of trees. I have no idea or opinion about that, but the hippeis-in-charge of the cities and counties down here won't allow any burning. The feds will allow it and even encourage burning but they don't like to fight the locals.

No burning for range/forest improvement or to reduce fuel load or for disposal.
In fact we pretty muchly have a no odor county. Libraries are posted with signs not allowing anyone in who is wearing perfume. Bakeries are not allowed emited the smell of baked bread. Smoking is not allowed in your car in traffic.

Anyway, a little off topic there, the job I am bidding will have maybe one hundred tons of wood waste that will just e chipped onto the ground and left there. Muy stupido!


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## Gologit (Feb 8, 2009)

2dogs said:


> Smokechase you may be right about burning. Some professionals believe the lack of potassium in the soil due to the complete supression of wildfire is weakening certain species of trees. I have no idea or opinion about that, but the hippeis-in-charge of the cities and counties down here won't allow any burning. The feds will allow it and even encourage burning but they don't like to fight the locals.
> 
> No burning for range/forest improvement or to reduce fuel load or for disposal.
> In fact we pretty muchly have a no odor county. Libraries are posted with signs not allowing anyone in who is wearing perfume. Bakeries are not allowed emited the smell of baked bread. Smoking is not allowed in your car in traffic.
> ...



No smell of fresh baked bread from the bakeries ???!!! Man, that is just WRONG. 

Wasting all that fine redwood isn't real great, either.


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## Frank Boyer (Feb 9, 2009)

You can't smoke in a car if there are children in it. Los Gatos has the smells of coffee roasting, bread baking, and meat being grilled.


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## southsoundtree (Feb 9, 2009)

KD57 said:


> Glad I live in TX, too many rules in Kalifornia. Since I have never even seen a tree that big, please video the take-down. That's some big bar wood for sure.
> But I am confused about the private land thing. If it's private land, why do all the feds have to get involved?



Perhaps because pathogens don't know about property lines. 

I wonder what the concern is with the redwood. Please inform us as you find out. 

Thanks.


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## slowp (Feb 9, 2009)

Here's a good site.

http://www.suddenoakdeath.org/


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## brnchbrkr (Feb 9, 2009)

*Good Site*



slowp said:


> Here's a good site.
> 
> http://www.suddenoakdeath.org/



Learning as we go.

http://www.suddenoakdeath.org/html/maps___photos.html

Clicked on map.........zoomed out to show the whole US, and seems to be a big problem out in California.

Sorry to hear that. In the Midwest we have a whole sort of attacks on trees going on with Gypsy Moth, EBA, etc....


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## Frank Boyer (Feb 10, 2009)

I heard a new idea about SOD today. A study found that if Bay/laurel trees were around that the tan oaks were more likely to become infected. I need to walk the canyon by my house and check it out.


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## smokechase II (Feb 10, 2009)

*2Dogs You can't be serious*

The bread thing.

You're joking, right?

============

Why the redwood chipping?

Is that because of the SOD possibility?
That doesn't make sense.

=============

I'm just amazed at all the greenies nodding their heads in unison with regard to fires role in nature, then two years after the last big fire locally they are ready to shut down all prescribed burning.

============

With respect to soil chemistry. I don't have any answers there either but I am sure that the removal of fire from areas that saw re-occurring low intensity underburns every 5 - 10 years are having their soils changed with our management.
Probably mostly for the negative.


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## slowp (Feb 10, 2009)

I can understand the bread thing just a little. I'm trying to lose some weight and the restaurant next door is torture at times. That nice grease smell is usually wafting over my yard. Mmmmmm and I know their fries are the best.

Back to SOD. I did read that in the patch in Southern Oregon, a crew was brought in, the felled all the trees and brush and then burned. I don't know what the results were. Sounds like it doesn't actually kill the Redwood.


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## Frank Boyer (Feb 10, 2009)

In Los Gatos you can smell coffee roasting, bread cooking, and meat on the grill. Smoking with a child in the car is illegal in CA.


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