# Lanscapers I hope you don't LEARN your TREES !



## ScottTree (May 2, 2007)

:bang: :bang: I just removed 4 40 ft scrubby pines dropping sap everywhere, growing into the eves, and all over the house. They were planted in a back yard 8 ft from the house along a fence line. Does this tick off anyone else. I see this often. Landscaper hacks will do a customers yard and just start planting trees they get on sale at homedepot, costco, local nursery etc. They either have no idea what they are planting or could care less about the customer. They plant the tree to close to the house and it becomes a hazard, Plant it next to a patio and it starts bringing up concrete , and here is a personal favorite. They plant next to a pool and it drops needles, sap, fruit, etc etc  They have no concept on how to create a living environment , all they know how to do is throw plants in a hole !!!!!! So to all you :newbie: or hack landscapers, TREES GROW UP ! Learn what they are and where they should be planted. 

:taped: Maybe I shouldn't hope for this as it would cost us tons of business. But that's my soft spot, I care about my customers.


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## grizzly2 (May 2, 2007)

I agree with you 100%. There are people out there who only know that you plant the green side up, and that's it. I've talked in circles with "professionals" about planting too close to bldg.'s, other trees, etc. and talked to them about proper planting techniques. That's the best thing we can do, educate them, the public, everyone we can. If the customer knows that 8 feet is too close to plant a pine to the house, then a problem can be diverted. Anyway, good luck.


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## underwor (May 2, 2007)

Just got a plan from a "world famous" designer for a new building. Had 3 blue spruce, which do not like the prairie soils all that well anyway, set in an area between building and sidewalk that is 17' square. The spruce we took out of that area was almost 20' across. Never saw the site. Drew the plan from construction blueprints. Must not have looked at the pictures I sent either. Our Landscape Design students to take both Dendrology and arboriculture and I drum it into them for both classes to use plants that will fit and actually live on the site.


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## grizzly2 (May 2, 2007)

> Our Landscape Design students to take both Dendrology and arboriculture and I drum it into them for both classes to use plants that will fit and actually live on the site.



Well, hopefully that will help the futurre generations of arborists not have this problem as much as we do now.


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## BayouTree (May 2, 2007)

Yes out of touch landscape designers and architects are a nationwide problem. I see it all the time. Pines planted under power lines and other impractical plans from people who base their designs off of blueprints without ever even considering the site. And they get paid the big bucks as well. The trouble is they belong to a very well respected association with a lot of clout, so they can pretty much do anything and people will buy in. Hopefully ISA certification will one day be as recognized and respected, outside of our own circles, as membership in ASLA.


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## Canyonbc (May 2, 2007)

i agree 100 percent...i think its more then landscapers...homeowners the do it them selfers...that dont have a clue what they are doing...

on the bright side...brings in work...which is money, pays for school i like it


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## clearance (May 2, 2007)

BayouTree said:


> Pines planted under power lines and other impractical plans from people who base their designs off of blueprints without ever even considering the site. And they get paid the big bucks as well. The trouble is they belong to a very well respected association with a lot of clout, so they can pretty much do anything and people will buy in. Hopefully ISA certification will one day be as recognized and respected, outside of our own circles, as membership in ASLA.



ISA certified arborists in Surrey B.C., working for the municipality of Surrey, had maples planted right beside a three phase 25kv powerline for blocks and blocks. They grew up and would have grown into the lines if the utility hadn't had them trimmed back. Funny thing is these arborists wanted the trees "properly" trimmed by an ISA arborist, so they paid an ISA arborist (who had to be certified by the utlity, nothing to do with the ISA) to trim them, whats even funnier is that the same guy was working for the company that was doing the utilty trimming in that area anyways. So, two things, the retards planted tall growing trees right beside a high voltage line and they had the taxpayers of Surrey pay for trimming the trees when the utility was doing it for nothing. So like I have said here before, ISA certification is no gaurantee of common sense.


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## ScottTree (May 3, 2007)

You should see some of the line clearance butchers around here ! I'd rather give the guy on the side of the road that is holding up the " i'll work for food " sign, an electric chain saw and tell him " go trim those trees " !!!!!


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## beowulf343 (May 3, 2007)

ScottTree said:


> You should see some of the line clearance butchers around here ! I'd rather give the guy on the side of the road that is holding up the " i'll work for food " sign, an electric chain saw and tell him " go trim those trees " !!!!!



You know-statements like that from guys like you really piss me off!! Have you ever done any line clearance? Do you know what's involved? Imo it's a much more difficult job and requires more skill than a residential trimmer. (And yes, i have done both.) Have you ever had to take down a two foot diameter limb overhanging the primaries and no place to tie in above it-have to climb out the limb and chunk it back without hitting the lines? Have you ever had to lower chunks from a tree next to a pole that has a dozen cable/phone drops running off it-all without ripping down a single drop? Have you ever worked production where you have to get a certain number of spans done every day-was not unusual for us climbers to be up and down 20+ trees a day just to try to get the spans done. You forget that all trimmers have to worry about fences, pools, buildings, etc., but line clearance guys also have to worry about primaries, secondaries, service drops, transformers, cable/phone lines and everything else they hang off poles. And they have to do all this in the yards of often very hostile homeowners-have you ever been ?????ed at several times a day just for doing your job? It sucks!! You have to remember, to a line clearance trimmer, the appearance of the tree is not their main concern-their concern is making sure that the tree will not interfere with the lines and cause the service to stop. Because people seem to get very irate when they have no power. Give the guys a break!


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## pmuscato (May 3, 2007)

It's usually not the landscapers it's the Land. Designers/Arch. I say this because I've worked as a Landscape foreman doing installs. You see its what looks good NOW, that sells not what happens 5 years later. Is it right? No but don't expect it to change soon.


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## clearance (May 3, 2007)

ScottTree said:


> You should see some of the line clearance butchers around here ! I'd rather give the guy on the side of the road that is holding up the " i'll work for food " sign, an electric chain saw and tell him " go trim those trees " !!!!!




My sincere wish is that one of these "butchers" takes a Jameson pole pruner and snips the service to your house.


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## beowulf343 (May 3, 2007)

clearance said:


> My sincere wish is that one of these "butchers" takes a Jameson pole pruner and snips the service to your house.



Nah-i wouldn't waste a pole clip on this guy. Had a groundie once accidently snip into a service drop and it blew a chunk out of the blade and the hook-the end of a good pole clip.


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## lxt (May 3, 2007)

Beowulf, spoken wonderfully!!!! since when did line clearance guys start using electric polesaws? Scottree, wrong my man!! until you have done it then & only then would you know.

LXT............


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## BluestemTree (May 3, 2007)

That is a common enough reaction to what the clearance guys have to do. The priority for the clearance guys is different - and has to be. The entire town here came unglued over the clearance pruning that was done this winter, and the trees do look awful, but it is not the fault of the guys keeping the power on - it is the fault of the folks who planted the trees under the lines. And, sadly most of the trees they have had to drastically top here will probably have to come down and be replaced by trees with suitable growth characteristics.


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## clearance (May 3, 2007)

BluestemTree said:


> That is a common enough reaction to what the clearance guys have to do. The priority for the clearance guys is different - and has to be. The entire town here came unglued over the clearance pruning that was done this winter, and the trees do look awful, but it is not the fault of the guys keeping the power on - it is the fault of the folks who planted the trees under the lines. And, sadly most of the trees they have had to drastically top here will probably have to come down and be replaced by trees with suitable growth characteristics.



Thank you, here is the truth. What a thankless task it can be, I value very much the few people that were decent to the crew when I did it. Mostly retired people, who I am sure respected guys doing hard and dangerous work, and who smiled and waved at us, and sometimes brought out coffee for us.


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## ScottTree (May 3, 2007)

You know what fellas.. Give me a break.... That statement was meant to be nothing more then purely a joke. Please if you will, note the word " SOME ". I know exactly what is involved in line clearance, and wasn't cracking on, and please note this word, " ALL " linesmen. You are just looking to pick a fight, SPIT. As in all professions, you have your GOOD, your AVERAGE, and of course as always YOUR CRAPPY workers. So i guess if i didn't see the ASPLUNDH crew At the local park drinking tall cans by 1 o'clock 3 times a week i wouldn't make this joke. <---- Note not a joke. So if you wish to say that there are not crappy clearance crews and you can't distinguish between the good and the bad and defend them all, well that's a reflection on you. I'm also assuming you've never seen a clearance crew filled with cigerette smoking, hung over, pot smoking, drug using fresh out of jail workers. Or was that your crew ? 
Also before you just throw out there " guys like me " don't you think you should know a little about them. I've got 18 years in. Started where i grew up in PA as a groundie doing the big boys, 100 fters. Did two yrs on a large caltrans contract in northern california up in the mountains doing mountain road clearance. And i've been working over 220 drops for yrs. I will not do trees that are up in the primaries thus i have the utmost respect for clearance men !!!!!!!!! You can throw all the blows you want i could give a rats A$$ because i know what rodeos i've been to.


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## clearance (May 3, 2007)

B.S. Scottie boy, line clearance guys know better than to mouth off like that, working over 220 drops for years, wow, man I am so impressed, like totally. You mouthed off like some other people here do here, 'cause, as you would know if you were actually a line clearance guy, we get all the abuse, but do the most vital tree jobs of all. With little thanks. Suck it up, be a man and apologize.


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## ScottTree (May 3, 2007)

If you didn't note i did apologize, by saying " I have the utmost respect for clearance guys ". And the only reason i brought up 220 is because it was brought up by beowolf. It was not to impress anyone. Please take it for what it was, " A joke " nothing else. And if it was misunderstood by anyone i do apologize. I still stick by the fact that there are mostly good clearance crews, but you do have your bad ones. That you can't dispute. Lets at least keep that real. My rant was brought on from the personal attack on me without knowing anything about my experience. All be it I may have made a joke in bad taste. Just because I don't climb above the primaries doesn't mean i don't know a thing or two. And this is real, clearance guys are STUDS , period ! Your job is extremely dangerous and essential. And i respect you.


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## clearance (May 3, 2007)

ScottTree said:


> If you didn't note i did apologize, by saying " I have the utmost respect for clearance guys ". And the only reason i brought up 220 is because it was brought up by beowolf. It was not to impress anyone. Please take it for what it was, " A joke " nothing else. And if it was misunderstood by anyone i do apologize. I still stick by the fact that there are mostly good clearance crews, but you do have your bad ones. That you can't dispute. Lets at least keep that real. My rant was brought on from the personal attack on me without knowing anything about my experience. All be it I may have made a joke in bad taste. Just because I don't climb above the primaries doesn't mean i don't know a thing or two. And this is real, clearance guys are STUDS , period ! Your job is extremely dangerous and essential. And i respect you.



Sorry, I am kind of touchy about it.


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## beowulf343 (May 3, 2007)

ScottTree said:


> I'd rather give the guy on the side of the road an electric chain saw



You know, i missed that phrase about the electric chainsaw. Maybe scott is the real thing-most treemen i know consider electric chainsaws a joke. or, maybe............
Scott's thinking that since these guys work around power anyway, he can take these electric saws, cut off the plug, split the cord, and attach some alligator clips. When the guys are up in the tree, they can simply clip them into the line and have all the power they need. And he's probably figuring that the bigger the line, the more power he'll have. Heck, when he's doing transmission lines, those saws should have enough power to turn a three foot bar!! 

That's a joke scott. Didn't mean to jump on you but like clearance i am touchy about it. But you are right, not all line clearance guys are good, but they all seem to get lumped in with the bad.


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## talcott (May 3, 2007)

*been at it for awhile*

hello

i started doing line work in 1967 and i am still at it. i have done a little line clearance work and it can be dangerous at times.

i work for a rural electric now and cut almost daily and work by myself. rus specs state that any trees that can get into the primary lines that are within 15' of either side of the line must be removed. sometimes you run into a problem with land owners. "can't you just trim it?" you have to trim a mininum of 10' back from the line. you end up side trimming and just cutting a hole or pathway through the tree depending on the circumstances.

it is pretty damn hard to make it look good!

i do not like the way it looks but if you try to kind of form the crown up to make it look good...i have at times got some real unhappy landowners.

my job is to clear the line and i try to explain to the people that our project is 120 miles across from coner to corner and it is my job to try to keep the trees out of the line and to get their power on. i also tell them that those trees can cause major power outages and can start fires.

i kinda hint that we want to keep the rates down and it would be very costly to have to constantly trim and that they should be removed.

it is pretty damn hard to trim the same tree every so many years to keep it out of the power lines and to make it look good.

yeah...i get my Irish azz chewed out on a regular basis.

do you want lights or do you want trees?

i just do the bestest job that i can.

talcott


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## grizzly2 (May 4, 2007)

I'm rather confused by all the banter on this post. I understand that the topic morphed from being about landscaper, designer, and homeowner knowledge and placement to being about line clearance. OK, that's what conversations do. What I'm confused about is how some people consider their job of tree work to be vastly more dangerous than the other jobs involving tree work. What we need to remember is that tree work is dangerous, no matter what. Yes, the utility guys have to worry about lines and getting electrocuted, that's a major hazard. But, what about the residential/commercial arborist who is worried about climbing Mrs. Johnson's 90 foot N. red oak, that her grandfather planted and must be saved and made to last for another 50 years, despite the large cavity at the base? You know, if arboriculture was a pissing contest, we'd all be wet. Respect the other facets of this industry, work together, and we can all benefit from it. Furthermore, line clearance guys might have to strip out half a tree, what shows poor work to me is when they do this and leave large stubs and just bad cuts. Not the overall appearance of the tree, the appearance of the work. Also, for those that feel ISA Certified Arborists are a joke, or not worth the time, then what do you recommend? Maybe we should just go back to the times when a pick-up and a chainsaw made you a 'knowing professional.'


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## clearance (May 4, 2007)

treeruyak said:


> What I'm confused about is how some people consider their job of tree work to be vastly more dangerous than the other jobs involving tree work. What we need to remember is that tree work is dangerous, no matter what. Yes, the utility guys have to worry about lines and getting electrocuted, that's a major hazard. But, what about the residential/commercial arborist who is worried about climbing Mrs. Johnson's 90 foot N. red oak, that her grandfather planted and must be saved and made to last for another 50 years, despite the large cavity at the base?



I'll clear up some confusion for you, the power must stay on, or our society collapses, think about it. Mrs. Johnsons oak tree should be cut down if its that dangerous, where do you get this "must be saved" b.s. from? Who says, the customer? Let me put it this way, if you risk your life to save a tree, you are an idiot. Your comparison doesn't make sense.


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## kennertree (May 4, 2007)

clearance said:


> I'll clear up some confusion for you, the power must stay on, or our society collapses, think about it. Mrs. Johnsons oak tree should be cut down if its that dangerous, where do you get this "must be saved" b.s. from? Who says, the customer? Let me put it this way, if you risk your life to save a tree, you are an idiot. Your comparison doesn't make sense.



I've done line clearing and residential work. Both are dangerous so I can't argue which is more dangerous or who is better, that makes no difference. You said if you risk your life to save a tree you are an idiot. Wouldnt that make us all idiots? Have you ever risked your life to cut a tree down? Anytime we go up a tree to save it or to kill it we are risking are lives.


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## clearance (May 4, 2007)

kennertree said:


> I've done line clearing and residential work. Both are dangerous so I can't argue which is more dangerous or who is better, that makes no difference. You said if you risk your life to save a tree you are an idiot. Wouldnt that make us all idiots? Have you ever risked your life to cut a tree down? Anytime we go up a tree to save it or to kill it we are risking are lives.



I think you know what I mean, I am talking about climbing hazardous trees that are unsafe, not the day to day dangers, saws, falls, electrocution etc. that are present with every tree.


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## kennertree (May 4, 2007)

clearance said:


> I think you know what I mean, I am talking about climbing hazardous trees that are unsafe, not the day to day dangers, saws, falls, electrocution etc. that are present with every tree.



I'm just pickin at ya, but have you ever removed a tree that had a major trunk defect where no equipment could get to it? I have, I'll call myself an idiot. Luckily it turned out ok and I'm still here. Now that I'm getting older safety is becoming more of an issue. I guess when you're young you dont realize as much. That's one good thing about getting older is that you get wiser.


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## clearance (May 4, 2007)

kennertree said:


> I'm just pickin at ya, but have you ever removed a tree that had a major trunk defect where no equipment could get to it? I have, I'll call myself an idiot. Luckily it turned out ok and I'm still here. Now that I'm getting older safety is becoming more of an issue. I guess when you're young you dont realize as much. That's one good thing about getting older is that you get wiser.



Yeah, I have climbed some sketchy trees as well, and sawed them down. What this chap is speaking of is climbing a danger tree and preserving it, exactly the kind of thing some ISA guys do, instead of cutting it down.


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## kennertree (May 4, 2007)

clearance said:


> Yeah, I have climbed some sketchy trees as well, and sawed them down. What this chap is speaking of is climbing a danger tree and preserving it, exactly the kind of thing some ISA guys do, instead of cutting it down.



Some trees are worth saving. If its too dangerous to climb its probably not worth saving or can't be saved. If it can't hold the weight of a climber it wont hold the wind load.


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## treeseer (May 4, 2007)

clearance said:


> Yeah, I have climbed some sketchy trees as well, and sawed them down. What this chap is speaking of is climbing a danger tree and preserving it, exactly the kind of thing some ISA guys do, instead of cutting it down.


Yup, that's us! :rockn: 

Just one detail to clarify--us "ISA guys" carefully assess tree risk and act accordingly. We don't throw out phrases like "danger tree" and "hazard" without inspecting and communicating tree risk before decisions are made.

Us "ISA guys"  try not to shoot our mouths off before our brains are loaded. And most of us do not live in BC where trees are plenty, and grow like crazy.

Tree owners decide how much tree risk they will accept, depending on: how much they value the tree, what condition the tree is in, and how much they value the nearby people and property—the “targets”.
Our assignment, should we choose to accept it, is to calculate and clearly communicate to the owners the risk associated with their tree, and what they can do about it.


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## clearance (May 4, 2007)

treeseer said:


> Yup, that's us! :rockn:
> 
> Just one detail to clarify--us "ISA guys" carefully assess tree risk and act accordingly. We don't throw out phrases like "danger tree" and "hazard" without inspecting and communicating tree risk before decisions are made.
> 
> ...


Don't lump yourself in with all ISA guys, you are a lot smarter than many of them, much chaff amongst the wheat in that club.


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## treeseer (May 4, 2007)

clearance said:


> Don't lump yourself in with all ISA guys, you are a lot smarter than many of them, much chaff amongst the wheat in that club.


Thanks, I try not to lump myself with anybody; gotta keep movin'.:biggrinbounce2: 

The chaff in any club that chafes me is those who hit a level, be that CA or PhD, and figure that they can stop learning and start lecturing.umpkin2: 

re landscapers and planners, right now there is a best practices manual being developed, to inform that audience about tree management. Long overdue imo. Some of our Tree Fund money hard at work.


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## alanarbor (May 4, 2007)

clearance said:


> I'll clear up some confusion for you, the power must stay on, or our society collapses, think about it. Mrs. Johnsons oak tree should be cut down if its that dangerous, where do you get this "must be saved" b.s. from? Who says, the customer? Let me put it this way, if you risk your life to save a tree, you are an idiot. Your comparison doesn't make sense.



[sarcasm]And..............welcome to arboristsite Dave!

It's a friendly kinda place. where everyone respects each other's opinons and all.[/sarcasm]


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## ScottTree (May 5, 2007)

beowulf343 said:


> You know, i missed that phrase about the electric chainsaw. Maybe scott is the real thing-most treemen i know consider electric chainsaws a joke. or, maybe............
> Scott's thinking that since these guys work around power anyway, he can take these electric saws, cut off the plug, split the cord, and attach some alligator clips. When the guys are up in the tree, they can simply clip them into the line and have all the power they need. And he's probably figuring that the bigger the line, the more power he'll have. Heck, when he's doing transmission lines, those saws should have enough power to turn a three foot bar!! :hmm3grin2orange: LOL nice!
> 
> That's a joke scott. Didn't mean to jump on you but like clearance i am touchy about it. But you are right, not all line clearance guys are good, but they all seem to get lumped in with the bad.



Beowulf/Clearance thnx for the response. Yes! Beowulf that was the meaning of the joke, the electric chainsaw. When i first moved in with my girlfriend 4 yrs ago, every piece of yard equipment she had was electric. Electric lawnmower, electric weed eater, electric hedge trimmer. She just would'nt get rid of them. Needless to say they all mysteriously stopped working in the first 6 months  Now that i think about it, when i hit that exposed root with the lawnmower and it started smoking, maybe i shouldn't have gone to get that drink of water. :hmm3grin2orange: But of course i have all the gas toys we need.


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## treevet (May 5, 2007)

clearance said:


> Don't lump yourself in with all ISA guys, you are a lot smarter than many of them, much chaff amongst the wheat in that club.



Interesting, retreat, defer, give in when challenged. Not very good characteristics for someone w such a dangerous occupation. Another ISA Guy


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## clearance (May 5, 2007)

treevet said:


> Interesting, retreat, defer, give in when challenged. Not very good characteristics for someone w such a dangerous occupation. Another ISA Guy



A somewhat cryptic post. Let me explain. In the beginning I though that ISA certification meant competence in treework. I found out that this was not neccesarily so by observing. I have had many beefs on this site, with many people, including Treeseer, about this topic. Treeseer and I don't see eye to eye, I am quick to execute trees, he isn't. But other than that, I believe he knows way more about trees than me. A common theme of some ISA people is to slag utility guys, almost as they see the utility guys as thier retarded cousin in treework, it pisses me off, and I am touchy about it. Scott explained himself, he meant no insult, so life goes on. Thats all.


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## treevet (May 5, 2007)

clearance said:


> A somewhat cryptic post. Let me explain. In the beginning I though that ISA certification meant competence in treework. I found out that this was not neccesarily so by observing. I have had many beefs on this site, with many people, including Treeseer, about this topic. Treeseer and I don't see eye to eye, I am quick to execute trees, he isn't. But other than that, I believe he knows way more about trees than me. A common theme of some ISA people is to slag utility guys, almost as they see the utility guys as thier retarded cousin in treework, it pisses me off, and I am touchy about it. Scott explained himself, he meant no insult, so life goes on. Thats all.



Fair enough, Clearance, and I feel you, and beyond that have new respect for you with that response. I do, however, wish you would see the obvious and acknowledge the almost Webster's def of hypocrisy in the disparaging remarks you level twds ISA CA s and utility guys in response to your sensitivity to the same type of remarks made twds utility guys. I have witnessed this other times and feel it belittles you and would like to point that out to a fellow site member.


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## clearance (May 5, 2007)

Ok, point taken.


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## treeseer (May 5, 2007)

clearance said:


> Treeseer and I don't see eye to eye, I am quick to execute trees, he isn't.


Well it's hard to see :Eye: 2 :Eye: when there's a continent in between. We have different jobs but we're both arborists with some pride in what we do. 

Nice chat w treevet there, honest talk on the web, jeez what's next?


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## Ed Roland (May 5, 2007)

treeseer said:


> Well it's hard to see :Eye: 2 :Eye: when there's a continent in between. We have different jobs but we're both arborists with some pride in what we do.
> 
> Nice chat w treevet there, honest talk on the web, jeez what's next?



Mr. Seer is is a true PRESERVATIONIST! Look at his recommendation to the home owner for the "leaning pine" thread. Little snip snip and all good.

Im all about taking a tree out if it is a hazard, by definition, and the clearance guys get my nod. Make the cut and get the H*LL out of those wires! Internodal, rip, flush, whatever. Cut the tree out of the wires... go home safe!

Keep up the good work, fellas.


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## grizzly2 (May 6, 2007)

Clearance, you seem to be fairly passionate about what you do, that's great. I do find it extremely amusing that you belittle anyone else who feels that same passion about their line of work. I'm not going to get into a CA versus non-CA argument with you, you have your mind made up (no matter how you decide to stereotype). I, on the other hand, was merely stating that we are both in a very dangerous profession. Yes, if we lose power, things get tougher with daily life. I understand fully the effects on no utility clearance and power lines (or any other lines). What I don't think you quite understand is that not all things are so cut and dry. If a tree is a danger, we don't HAVE to cut it down, we CAN make it safer. (that does not relate to utility work) In utlity work, if it's in the way, it's removed. OK, good job. What I'm trying to say is, maybe you could help bridge that gap between arborists and utility arborists, as opposed to putting yourself on top of everyone. You simply feel that any remark about utility work is a dig on you and your occupation. You have an opinion, but the part that makes life interesting, is that so does everyone else. Am I an idiot for trying to save Mrs. Johnson's tree? According to you, yes. So, the guy who thinks everyone who is a CA hates utility arborists, also thinks that anyone who saves a tree is an idiot. Interesting.


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## clearance (May 6, 2007)

treeruyak said:


> Clearance, you seem to be fairly passionate about what you do, that's great. I do find it extremely amusing that you belittle anyone else who feels that same passion about their line of work. I'm not going to get into a CA versus non-CA argument with you, you have your mind made up (no matter how you decide to stereotype). I, on the other hand, was merely stating that we are both in a very dangerous profession. Yes, if we lose power, things get tougher with daily life. I understand fully the effects on no utility clearance and power lines (or any other lines). What I don't think you quite understand is that not all things are so cut and dry. If a tree is a danger, we don't HAVE to cut it down, we CAN make it safer. (that does not relate to utility work) In utlity work, if it's in the way, it's removed. OK, good job. What I'm trying to say is, maybe you could help bridge that gap between arborists and utility arborists, as opposed to putting yourself on top of everyone. You simply feel that any remark about utility work is a dig on you and your occupation. You have an opinion, but the part that makes life interesting, is that so does everyone else. Am I an idiot for trying to save Mrs. Johnson's tree? According to you, yes. So, the guy who thinks everyone who is a CA hates utility arborists, also thinks that anyone who saves a tree is an idiot. Interesting.


It was you who said the res. arborist was risking his life to save Mrs, Jonsons tree. I said someone who risks thier life to save a tree is an idiot. I don't consider trees per say to be life riskers, its just a job, decent trees rarely fail, I thought you would clue into this. Climbing a p.o.s. to save it, is the mark of an idiot, sorry. And if you spend any time here you will see the digs at utility guys, and it is some of the ISA guys who think thier sh&t doesn't stink and put down utility guys. Whats even worse is unqualified guys mouthing off here about working around power, saying all sorts of uneducated crap. You can see this behaviuor on another website someone who is a member here has as well. It is so easy to do it, just like making fun of hillbillies, I think it sucks. So there you go.


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## grizzly2 (May 6, 2007)

I was simply referring to the fact that our industry, no matter which avenue of expertise you are in, is dangerous. That's all. Furthermore, I'm sorry other people have not treated you nice, I don't believe I said anything to offend you, but yet I'm an idiot, so what would I know. By the way, I've never had an issue with utility arborists (of course you wouldn't know that, nor would you care) but I'm starting to see what people dislike about them.


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## clearance (May 6, 2007)

I never did welcome you to the site, I usually make a point of this. Welcome to the site Treeruyak. Be safe out there.


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## grizzly2 (May 6, 2007)

Thanks!


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