# How many acres does it take?



## Dirk Primo (Jan 1, 2012)

Alright here is the situation. I must have, or really want, to have a small piece of property to show my kids the finer things in life(hunting, logging, building, camping) I'm thinking around 40 acres. My goal is to build a cabin from timber off the property. Gonna buy or make a sawmill, cut the logs, dry the logs and then build. I'm not interested in whether its makes since financially. This has nothing to do with making money and everything to do with Maslow's Heirarchy of needs. This will take place somewhere around the North Carolina Virginia boder in the foothills or Mountains. I know those aren't really mountains, heard that a time or two from you westerners. Here is the problem; I can't really afford the land. The plan is to buy land that has mature timber and select cut to offset cost of land. Finally the question. What would be the minimal number of acres to get a good price for the wood? It almost seens like if I could come up with enough money to get a loan, the trees would almost pay for the land. I have a friend that just logged about 100 acres and I couldn't believe how much money the timber was worth. He and the logger split the money 50/50. Its almost all white and red oaks, some poplar, and very mature pines.


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## slowp (Jan 1, 2012)

Volume per acre is more important than the number of acres. Can you cruise timber?


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## Dirk Primo (Jan 1, 2012)

*Cruising?*

I use to cruise chicks. Sorry, couldn't resist. No I wish I could. Which brings up another thought. I would definitely want to hire a forester before I purchased any land. How do they get paid and would I be able to get one out if I don't actually own the land yet.


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## Oldtimer (Jan 1, 2012)

Buy quality, not quantity. I'd rather have 10 acres of top shelf logs than I would 40 acres of scrubby junk. Even a greenhorn can tell good wood from scubby wood.
And.. there can be substantial profit from timber, but don't get hung up on "select cut". If you're cutting for money, CUT it for money. Leave some shade trees around the building site, and send the rest. It will grow back, and wild life prefers heavy cut over land to mature timber.
Hiring a forester isn't what I'd do, given that I'd do what I just said above..
I'd have 3-5 logging outfits come walk it and give written estimates of volume, and profit.
Take one from the middle of the estimate range and turn him loose- with a well thought out written contract in place. Cover your butt.

JMO.:jester:


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## Dirk Primo (Jan 1, 2012)

Want to use land for hunting so that affects quantity and don't want to hunt complete cutover is only reason I suggested select cut. I hear you on quality though. So would you get just as much for wood regardless of acreage(assuming same volume per acre)? I know it would be better as quantity went up but in general would it be close to the same?


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## bitzer (Jan 1, 2012)

This ####ing Maslow ####### is spreading his #### pyramid all over AS these days. Like I said in another thread in a different forum, sex is not on that list enough and timber falling is not on it at all. The list is bull####.


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## Billy_Bob (Jan 1, 2012)

bitzer said:


> ...sex is not on that list...



Listed twice!

Maslow's hierarchy of needs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## bitzer (Jan 1, 2012)

Billy_Bob said:


> Listed twice!
> 
> Maslow's hierarchy of needs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



And like I said in that other thread, its not listed ENOUGH!


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## atvguns (Jan 2, 2012)

How did we go from timber to Maslow:msp_confused:


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## Billy_Bob (Jan 2, 2012)

atvguns said:


> How did we go from timber to Maslow:msp_confused:



The first post in this thread says in the middle...
"...This has nothing to do with making money and everything to do with Maslow's Heirarchy of needs..."


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## Oldtimer (Jan 2, 2012)

Billy_Bob said:


> Listed twice!
> 
> Maslow's hierarchy of needs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Sweet deer guts on a doorknob. Maslow is an idiot.

FOOD, WATER, SHELTER, HEAT, WOMAN, KIDS, FRIENDS.


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## slowp (Jan 2, 2012)

I had not even heard of Maslow. Hmmm. I don't like triangles.


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## teatersroad (Jan 2, 2012)

I'm pretty sure you'll be paying for the timber value when you buy the land. Maybe look for something that hasn't been high-graded and steward that.


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## teatersroad (Jan 2, 2012)

_Maslow studied what he called exemplary people such as Albert Einstein, Jane Addams, Eleanor Roosevelt, and Frederick Douglass rather than mentally ill or neurotic people, writing that "the study of crippled, stunted, immature, and unhealthy specimens can yield only a cripple psychology and a cripple philosophy."[3] Maslow studied the healthiest 1% of the college student population.[4]_

-Wiki

Well, I've got a fair bit of a problem with this. The light of infinite wisdom is not exactly shining down on his study group. Generally when that light does kind of crack through, the shift in the paradigm of thought leaves the elite and institutionally entrenched in the dust. It is the marginalized that are best equipped to adapt to new ways of thought, and it is new ways of thinking that generally land folks into an asylum, courtesy of the institutionally entrenched. 

-signed - _a concerned crippled, stunted, immature, and unhealthy specimen. _


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## Dalmatian90 (Jan 2, 2012)

> I'm pretty sure you'll be paying for the timber value when you buy the land.



+1

Properly appraised property will take into account the net value of the timber on it just like it would take into account improvements like roads and buildings.

Heck, your Real Estate Contract in such case should specify the purchase includes the standing timber -- depending on the state law, it would really suck if you signed the contract the current owner then logged it between signing the contract and closing because he didn't intend to include the standing timber, leaving you the choice of buying it logged or walking away from the deposit.

I guess the question then becomes can you find land with the timber value grossly under appraised (not likely, but I guess you could find some land lovingly tendered into all veneer grade logs by some dude whose family doesn't realize it when selling the property to settle the estate)...or if you can figure out some way to tweak more "net" out of it (run your own sawmill?).


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## Joe46 (Jan 2, 2012)

F Maslow. As far as land-how much can you afford?


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## milkie62 (Jan 3, 2012)

What has Maslow got to do with cutting down trees using a sweetly ported ,sharp chained 372 Husky ?


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## Dirk Primo (Jan 3, 2012)

*sex and trees*



Joe46 said:


> F Maslow. As far as land-how much can you afford?




That's the problem. Not enough, that's why I'm trying to get the cake and eat it too. I actually am hoping for under-appraised land I guess. I have noticed when I search for land that mostly what you see has already been logged. BTW, I love how much attention Maslow got. Sex is why I can't get the land I want. I got/have 4 kids.


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## Joe46 (Jan 3, 2012)

:


Dirk Primo said:


> That's the problem. Not enough, that's why I'm trying to get the cake and eat it too. I actually am hoping for under-appraised land I guess. I have noticed when I search for land that mostly what you see has already been logged. BTW, I love how much attention Maslow got. Sex is why I can't get the land I want. I got/have 4 kids.



Well at least you know how you got the 4 kids:msp_rolleyes::msp_thumbsup:


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## bitzer (Jan 3, 2012)

Dirk Primo said:


> That's the problem. Not enough, that's why I'm trying to get the cake and eat it too. I actually am hoping for under-appraised land I guess. I have noticed when I search for land that mostly what you see has already been logged. BTW, I love how much attention Maslow got. Sex is why I can't get the land I want. I got/have 4 kids.



I've got 4 with number 5 on the way. Someones gotta feed the monkey.


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## milkie62 (Jan 3, 2012)

I read some article years ago that you should beable to take a cord per year per acre on a well managed piece of mature woods.


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