# Removing invasives/pulling up by roots



## Mad Professor (Nov 7, 2021)

I've got a ~ 15 acre woodlot I need to remove invasives from. 

I have a grant from USDA that supports first mechanical removal via pulling up by roots and/or cutting, with two followups with herbicide. I have a whole year to complete the mechanical part I plan on doing the work myself. What I'm dealing with is: bittersweet, multiflora rose (not much), bayberry (fair amount but not thickets yet), honeysuckle, and buckthorn. The larger honeysuckle and buckthorn I'll use a chainsaw on paint stumps with hebicide, lopp off any bittersweet that has started to climb paint those too. I have a forest management plan in place and have studied these particular invasives.

What I'm wondering is what have people used on smaller stuff to pull these up by the roots? The bayberry , buckthorn and multiflora rose can't be done by hand due to the thorns. I have a 9N ford tractor I can use to pull with for stuff too large to be done manually. I also have logging chains. 

One of the things I've seen is called the "brush grubber". A chain setup that can get wrapped around clumps of brush. For small stuff it looks like it would work by hand and avoid the thorns, bigger clumps I could use the tractor for pulling. Anyone used one of these?





I'm open to any other ideas? Have thought of using loops of cable too.


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## lone wolf (Nov 7, 2021)

Mad Professor said:


> I've got a ~ 15 acre woodlot I need to remove invasives from.
> 
> I have a grant from USDA that supports first mechanical removal via pulling up by roots and/or cutting, with two followups with herbicide. I have a whole year to complete the mechanical part I plan on doing the work myself. What I'm dealing with is: bittersweet, multiflora rose (not much), bayberry (fair amount but not thickets yet), honeysuckle, and buckthorn. The larger honeysuckle and buckthorn I'll use a chainsaw on paint stumps with hebicide, lopp off any bittersweet that has started to climb paint those too. I have a forest management plan in place and have studied these particular invasives.
> 
> ...


Stump grinder.


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## TheJollyLogger (Nov 7, 2021)

For 15 acres I would just hire a skid loader with a mulching head, probably a 3-4 day job.


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## Mad Professor (Nov 7, 2021)

One issue is I'm short on cash, but have a wealth of free time. The USDA $$$ won't come until job is finished. The 15 acres are not covered in invasives, just some larger patches starting to get a foothold. 

Another is getting the roots out really cuts down on re-sprouts. Bittersweet the exception with tiny roots missed putting up sprouts, roundup takes care of those.

Part of the area is borderline swampy so not easy to use a skidsteer or stump grinder. Been so damm rainy this summer, I got my tractor stuck in an adjacent field I'd mowed for years without an issue....that's another story

I did a couple acres by hand a few years back. I pulled small stuff and/or used a large string trimmer on those, then hit the resprouts with roundup, chainsaw with an old chain on the bigger stuff. It's still pretty clean except small stuff from birds crapping out new seeds. 

Damm bayberry thorns break off in your hands and are a ***** to pick out. I need to invest in some more good gloves too.


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## ChuckMI (Nov 7, 2021)

Use a brushcutter (like this but put a blade on it) https://www.stihlusa.com/products/trimmers-and-brushcutters/professional-trimmers/fs240/ and paint the stumps with glyphosate as soon as you cut. You don't have to bend over as with a chainsaw and it is a lot faster than pulling. This is what the Nature Conservancy uses for removing buckthorn, honeysuckle, barberry. Do you have bayberry or barberry?


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## AKoz (Nov 7, 2021)

I like the looks of the Shrub/Clump Grubber but I fear that barberry for example with just let it slide up and off.​
Here is an article from Farm Show magazine, for pulling saplings.








FARM SHOW Magazine - The BEST stories about Made-It-Myself Shop Inventions, Farming and Gardening Tips, Time-saving Tricks & the Best Farm Shop Hacks, DIY Farm Projects, Tips on Boosting your farm income, time-saving farming advice, farming tractors


Two years ago FARM SHOW featured an old idea called a sapling strangler with a short length of chain welded to a pipe. A reader, the late Mac Kroenlein, Nokomis, Ill., adapted the idea but made a...



www.farmshow.com




I changed this a little and rather than hook the chain onto the pipe at the bottom, I run the chain back up inside the pipe and fasten it at the top of the pipe. It works better for smaller stuff and clumps. Even with that shrubs like barberry may still just shed its skin with the chain while the roots stay in the ground. I find the larger the clumps the easier to pull. I agree with you on pulling the roots rather than cutting off at the soil. With the roots pulled the soil is loosened enough that if anything sprouts in the spring its easy to pull by hand.


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## Mad Professor (Nov 7, 2021)

ChuckMI said:


> Use a brushcutter (like this but put a blade on it) https://www.stihlusa.com/products/trimmers-and-brushcutters/professional-trimmers/fs240/ and paint the stumps with glyphosate as soon as you cut. You don't have to bend over as with a chainsaw and it is a lot faster than pulling. This is what the Nature Conservancy uses for removing buckthorn, honeysuckle, barberry. Do you have bayberry or barberry?


Some of the buckthorn are small ~4-5" dia trees, need the saw on those. I've made big piles of those I burn in winter

Barberry, my mistake in spelling.

From my management plan. May also use trichopyr as herbicide, works in spring.


*Table 3 Invasive Species Present on Forested/Nearby Parcels*


*Common Name**Genus Species**Extent of Spread**Eradication Measures*Barberry_Berberis thunbergii_Found in both wooded areas and in fields.Mechanical pulling of rooted plants, repeated mowing in fields, and spraying with glyphosphate of sprouts/cut stems.Burning Bush_Euonymus alatus_Sparse, found mainly in wooded areas but spreading via avian seed depositionsMechanical pulling of rooted plants and cutting of larger plants/trees followed by glyphosphate treatment of sprouts/cut stems._Common Buckthorn__Rhamnus_
Cathartica_Problematic on field margins and some establishment’s within wooded areas. No extensive thickets.Mowing with rotary cutter and cutting of larger plants/trees followed by glyphosphate treatment of sprouts/cut stems.Garlic Mustard_Alliaria petiolata_Widespread in fields and adjacent wooded parcelsMowing and pulling of 2 year old plants in spring before flowering/seeding. Eliminate seed source of biennial.Honeysuckle_Lonicera japonica_Found in wooded areas and within uncut areas of fields. No thicketsMowing in open areas and cutting larger shrubs on forested areas. Glyphosphate treatment to kill roots of sprouts/cut stems.Mulitiflora Rose_Rosa multiflora_Sporadically distributed in fields and woodlands, with several expanding patchesCutting/mowing followed by glyphoshate treatment, of sprouts/cut stems.Oriental Bittersweet_Celastrus orbiculatus_Widespread in both fields and wooded areas. Several major thickets.Mechanical pulling of rooted plants, mowing in open areas, and glyphosphate treatment of sprouts/cut vines and large patches.


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## Mad Professor (Nov 7, 2021)

AKoz said:


> I like the looks of the Shrub/Clump Grubber but I fear that barberry for example with just let it slide up and off.​
> Here is an article from Farm Show magazine, for pulling saplings.
> 
> 
> ...


I like that idea! I've plenty of chains and scrapyard pipes are cheap. I imagine you could vary chain and pipe sizes to work with what you are pulling.

I bookmarked your link, thanks!


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## Kelly50 (Nov 8, 2021)

Mad Professor said:


> I've got a ~ 15 acre woodlot I need to remove invasives from.
> 
> I have a grant from USDA that supports first mechanical removal via pulling up by roots and/or cutting, with two followups with herbicide. I have a whole year to complete the mechanical part I plan on doing the work myself. What I'm dealing with is: bittersweet, multiflora rose (not much), bayberry (fair amount but not thickets yet), honeysuckle, and buckthorn. The larger honeysuckle and buckthorn I'll use a chainsaw on paint stumps with hebicide, lopp off any bittersweet that has started to climb paint those too. I have a forest management plan in place and have studied these particular invasives.
> 
> ...


Pullerbear made in Canada. Very well made. Several sizes available. Excellent tool for pulling trees that can minimize soil compaction.


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## Mad Professor (Nov 8, 2021)

Kelly50 said:


> Pullerbear made in Canada. Very well made. Several sizes available. Excellent tool for pulling trees that can minimize soil compaction.


That looks like a great tool for small trees. Not sure how well it would work on clumps of stuff like barberry?

Would be a good compliment to the chain set setup I mentioned.

I may end up with both, but try the pipe setup Akoz mentioned above too. Maybe file some teeth into the end of the pipe


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## ChuckMI (Nov 8, 2021)

You can easily cut 5" diameter trees with the FS240. Just cut all the way around and the blade will go all the way through. Triclopyr works as well or better than glyphosate. Cost and availability would help you make your decision. You need 10 years to eliminate garlic mustard. Probably not worth the trouble on 15 acres.


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## Mad Professor (Nov 8, 2021)

ChuckMI said:


> You can easily cut 5" diameter trees with the FS240. Just cut all the way around and the blade will go all the way through. Triclopyr works as well or better than glyphosate. Cost and availability would help you make your decision. You need 10 years to eliminate garlic mustard. Probably not worth the trouble on 15 acres.


I have 2 older stihl trimmers w/bicycle handlebars. It's smaller than a 240, but I could get 1 runner out of them and put a saw blade on for dedicated small trees, bigger stuff I'd still be using a chainsaw. This would be a winter project. $$$ is not there for new stuff.

From what I've read on herbicides, glyphosate is best used in fall when plants are translocating material to the roots, where triclopyr works well in cut stump treatments when plants are actively growing, useful in spring/summer.

I've been battling the garlic mustard for a while. Mowing several times a year works well in open areas and wooded places pulling up the 2 year olds and/or cutting them to ground level. I know it takes years to exhaust the seeds, as they may sprout several years down the line and the work you've done goes for naught.


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## ChuckMI (Nov 8, 2021)

You can also use cut and stump treat all winter.


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## Woody912 (Nov 8, 2021)

Mad Professor said:


> I've got a ~ 15 acre woodlot I need to remove invasives from.
> 
> I have a grant from USDA that supports first mechanical removal via pulling up by roots and/or cutting, with two followups with herbicide. I have a whole year to complete the mechanical part I plan on doing the work myself. What I'm dealing with is: bittersweet, multiflora rose (not much), bayberry (fair amount but not thickets yet), honeysuckle, and buckthorn. The larger honeysuckle and buckthorn I'll use a chainsaw on paint stumps with hebicide, lopp off any bittersweet that has started to climb paint those too. I have a forest management plan in place and have studied these particular invasives.
> 
> ...


I like to spray with Crossroad in the summer to kill the entire plant then chainsaw and burn in the winter. Never ending prociess


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## ATH (Nov 8, 2021)

I'm not a fan of pulling because you are going to cause a lot of unnecessary soil disturbance by uprooting things. I prefer cut and treat the stumps. But, get a real brush cutter...not a big weed whacker. If Stihl, FS460 or FS560 ... or Husqvarna 555FX.

You'll want the harness if you are using it for more than 15 minutes. You'll also want the harness if you catch something with the tip of the blade and it quickly pulls the head a little on you.

Stump spray with Garlon 3A or RoundUp Custom (if there are wetland areas....you said lots of standing water).

Does your plan/EQIP contract allow for foliar spray only? We prefer this on smaller bushes as it is tough to treat stumps smaller than 1" in diameter. In fact, that is on the schedule for tomorrow for an invasive species contract we have. We did some cutting earlier in the summer. We'll spray the small stuff tomorrow then be back in the next few month and a half to cut the rest and treat stumps of the bigger stuff that remains.


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## PASS_AUF (Nov 9, 2021)

@ATH Is on the money! Buy a clearing saw not a 240, look on CL of Facebook market place they come up used.

I’m in a similar boat to the OP with my 40 acres. 10 or so are old pasture, the rest are woodlands that have been hammered by oak wilt and eaten alive by buckthorn. I’ve got 4 clearing saws and lots of time on my hands but proceeding all of the cut material was a huge problem. I bought a track loader and mulch head this year, WAY faster. 

I’ve used the brush chain linked above. It does work to a point, machine weight is a factor to what it’ll pull. A friends dad was killed trying to pull a stump with a chain, so I’m not a fan of the practice.

I would be using Garlon over RU if you’re far enough away from water as it is much more effective on woody brush species. When mixed as a basal bark treatment it can be applied year round and to uncut invasives which offers a head start in the spring.


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## capetrees (Nov 9, 2021)

Mow mow mow.

Converted an open field overrun with honeysuckle, wild roses, bittersweet, poison ivy, all about 10' tall. Mowed a couple time with a Bobcat brush mower and after that a ride on mower. 4 years later the field is grass that gets cut as lawn every two weeks. We even found a few older fruit trees that the owner didn't kmow existed.


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## ChuckMI (Nov 9, 2021)

I don't think he is trying to create a giant lawn. He is removing invasives from a natural area to allow the natives to thrive and increase wildflowers and wildlife.


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## ATH (Nov 9, 2021)

PASS_AUF said:


> @ATH ....
> I would be using Garlon over RU if you’re far enough away from water as it is much more effective on woody brush species. When mixed as a basal bark treatment it can be applied year round and to uncut invasives which offers a head start in the spring.


We use:

Garlon 4 mixed with oil carrier for basal bark spray.

Garlon 3 is a little cheaper for cut stumps. Also Garlon 3 can be used in wetland areas.

Sometimes use RoundUp for cut stumps. It is cheaper than Garlon 3. I think it is as effective in late summer/ fall, but Garlon is better in the winter.


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## Mad Professor (Nov 9, 2021)

capetrees said:


> Mow mow mow.
> 
> Converted an open field overrun with honeysuckle, wild roses, bittersweet, poison ivy, all about 10' tall. Mowed a couple time with a Bobcat brush mower and after that a ride on mower. 4 years later the field is grass that gets cut as lawn every two weeks. We even found a few older fruit trees that the owner didn't kmow existed.


@capetrees , I've mowed all the fields with a 5' rotary cutter on a farm tractor for ~ last 35 years. I try to at least twice a year, but leave some until August for medow bird habitat (turkeys/other birds nest there). I just cut/mowed everything near the orchards and gardens again, as we have a big vole problem last two years (I'm ~150 miles inland of You), I lost some apples and blueberries to girdling. The yotes fox and bobcats will all be well fed this fall/winter.

My question concerned the woodlot. If I can get the tractor at any of that, it gets mowed too.

I get PI almost just by looking at it. If I see any I don't wait, the sprayer comes out.


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## Mad Professor (Nov 9, 2021)

ATH said:


> We use:
> 
> Garlon 4 mixed with oil carrier for basal bark spray.
> 
> ...


@ATH, thanks for advice on herbicides. I've used glyphosate for many years (no ill effects yet). I've read up on trichlopyr but have not used it, yet. It looks like it compliments the action/use of glyphosate in some ways.


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## Mad Professor (Nov 9, 2021)

ChuckMI said:


> I don't think he is trying to create a giant lawn. He is removing invasives from a natural area to allow the natives to thrive and increase wildflowers and wildlife.


Also trying to re-establish/help hard/soft mast trees, and native understory plants of value: Leeks, ginseng (problems with voles and turkeys), cohosh, mushrooms (morels, hen of the woods, chicken/sulfur).........


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## AKoz (Nov 9, 2021)

Here are two of the brush/sapling pullers I made. 
The one on the left works well on saplings because it gets a grip. I use it mostly on Russian/Autumn Olive. It also works well on large barberry if I can get it close to the ground. 
The one on the right originally had a small link chain but tended to slide off smaller stuff. I just remade it with a garage door opener chain. I haven't used it yet but it will probably introduce some of its own problems like no kinks allowed and it won't have the strength of other chains. But it will only be used on smaller stuff. The chain links should grab well so it may be a winner.


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## Mad Professor (Nov 10, 2021)

AKoz said:


> Here are two of the brush/sapling pullers I made.
> The one on the left works well on saplings because it gets a grip. I use it mostly on Russian/Autumn Olive. It also works well on large barberry if I can get it close to the ground.
> The one on the right originally had a small link chain but tended to slide off smaller stuff. I just remade it with a garage door opener chain. I haven't used it yet but it will probably introduce some of its own problems like no kinks allowed and it won't have the strength of other chains. But it will only be used on smaller stuff. The chain links should grab well so it may be a winner.
> View attachment 940413



I like the drive link chain. The strength issue might be solved by employing a large chain used on motorcycles. A cycle shop should be able to fix you up with a worn out HD chain for free or next to nothing. The biggest ones are ~ 10,000-16,000 lbs tensile strength when new. Need a strong way to secure both ends?

I worked at a Honda/Suzuki dealership many years ago, and my childhood friend still owns the shop. I might be paying him (and the scrap yard for pipe) a visit and ask if the has any big chains in the scrap pile. 

I have acetylene torches and stick welder, project would be pretty inexpensive.

Your thoughts on motorcycle chain with you design?


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## capetrees (Nov 10, 2021)

anyone in your area have a Fecon machine?









FTX150-2 Mulching Tractor | FECON Forestry Mulchers


Clear land faster with the FECON FTX150-2 Mulching Tractor. Complete large scale jobs with ease. Find a dealer near you.




fecon.com


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## Mad Professor (Nov 10, 2021)

capetrees said:


> anyone in your area have a Fecon machine?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If I had the $$$$$$$ for one of those I wouldn't be doing much by hand.


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## AKoz (Nov 10, 2021)

Mad Professor said:


> I like the drive link chain. The strength issue might be solved by employing a large chain used on motorcycles. A cycle shop should be able to fix you up with a worn out HD chain for free or next to nothing. The biggest ones are ~ 10,000-16,000 lbs tensile strength when new. Need a strong way to secure both ends?
> 
> I worked at a Honda/Suzuki dealership many years ago, and my childhood friend still owns the shop. I might be paying him (and the scrap yard for pipe) a visit and ask if the has any big chains in the scrap pile.
> 
> ...


I think that is a great idea. I think the flatness of the link parts will dig into the target. I know that some farm machinery like harvesters use these type on chains but they are probably too big. I forgot about motorcycles. A motorcycle's would be a good compromise and next step up.
You're right about the ends. I used homemade split rings but they have to be small enough to fit through the pipe. I smushed mine in a vice to give them an oval shape. It would probably be better to use a clevis design instead.
Here is how I make split rings:








Rings and Split Rings


Rings and Split Rings: This instructable will show how to make your own metal hardware type ring (i.e., not jewelry) and a split key ring type ring. These are made from garage door springs so the size of the spring dictates the size of the ring. This instructable shows h…




www.instructables.com


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## Mad Professor (Nov 10, 2021)

AKoz said:


> I think that is a great idea. I think the flatness of the link parts will dig into the target. I know that some farm machinery like harvesters use these type on chains but they are probably too big. I forgot about motorcycles. A motorcycle's would be a good compromise and next step up.
> You're right about the ends. I used homemade split rings but they have to be small enough to fit through type pipe. I smushed mine in a vice to give them an oval shape. It would probably be better to use a clevis design instead.
> Here is how I make split rings:
> 
> ...


 
Even big MC chain the pins are pretty small ~ 1/4". 

I was thinking of some 1/4" grade 8 bolts then use a larger double clevis with some washers and nuts, to hook up pull end. The 1/4" bolt on one end to connect MC chain, and with the double clevis big enough for a length of chain w/clevis hook on the other.

You could weld a nut onto the outside of the pipe to secure the other end with similar 1/4" bolt.


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## capetrees (Nov 10, 2021)

Mad Professor said:


> If I had the $$$$$$$ for one of those I wouldn't be doing much by hand.


not ownership but rent or hire
ownership is $300K+


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## AKoz (Nov 10, 2021)

Mad Professor said:


> Even big MC chain the pins are pretty small ~ 1/4".
> 
> I was thinking of some 1/4" grade 8 bolts then use a larger double clevis with some washers and nuts, to hook up pull end. The 1/4" bolt on one end to connect MC chain, and with the double clevis big enough for a length of chain w/clevis hook on the other.
> 
> You could weld a nut onto the outside of the pipe to secure the other end with similar 1/4" bolt.


I'm not sure what you meant by "weld a nut onto the outside of the pipe to secure the other end". While most likely on your hands and knees you have the chain going through the pipe once, then you wrap it around the tree/shrub, then pass it back through the pipe and secure it to the outside of the pipe. Then cinch it snug. When I'm in that situation I prefer to just hook something and get out. Your description does give me some ideas on how to attach that end without having to pass something bigger than the chain back through the pipe.

I have a few MC shops nearby. I'll stop by and try my luck getting a decommissioned chain. For this limited work would a punch and hammer suffice for removing the pins?

I think the pull end should have a clevis-chain swivel connector because I assume the MC chain is designed for its full capacity based a straight away pull. So there should not be any twisting when it's under tension.


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## thenne1713 (Nov 30, 2021)

Mad Professor said:


> One issue is I'm short on cash, but have a wealth of free time. The USDA $$$ won't come until job is finished. The 15 acres are not covered in invasives, just some larger patches starting to get a foothold.
> 
> Another is getting the roots out really cuts down on re-sprouts. Bittersweet the exception with tiny roots missed putting up sprouts, roundup takes care of those.
> 
> ...


CONSIDER Identifying LOW points/area, and putting ditch or pond/ both in that area so that acres drain to it? This also gives fill dirt to put into other areas to build them up?


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## JimCanonTheTreeMan (Dec 9, 2021)

ChuckMI said:


> Use a brushcutter (like this but put a blade on it) https://www.stihlusa.com/products/trimmers-and-brushcutters/professional-trimmers/fs240/ and paint the stumps with glyphosate as soon as you cut. You don't have to bend over as with a chainsaw and it is a lot faster than pulling. This is what the Nature Conservancy uses for removing buckthorn, honeysuckle, barberry. Do you have bayberry or barberry?


Our crew has done things very similar to this before and it is highly effective.


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## cookies (Dec 9, 2021)

A large heavy tarp works excellent at killing off mowed down brush, spray then cover with the tarp for 30 days. It blocks out the light and prevents rain from washing away the herbicide. Adding a few drops of liquid dish soap to herbicide can make it 2x as effective. Herbicides are most effective over 80 degrees, the higher the temperature the faster it works. Its also worth looking into what soil ph the invasive species thrive at vs the local then adjust it to hinder or even kill the invasives. Ph altering is slow and will last a good long while once shifted plus its pretty darn cheap to apply lime/Sulphur plus its pretty non toxic.


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## TRTermite (Jan 18, 2022)

ATH said:


> We use:
> 
> Garlon 4 mixed with oil carrier for basal bark spray.
> 
> ...


QUESTION... I have used "Tordon RTU in summer but want to cut and treat small (2" and some up to 12")walnut maple and other trees this winter. I am not familiar (YET) with Garlon 3 . I assume Garlon will be cheaper but will the tordon be effective in winter?


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## TheJollyLogger (Jan 18, 2022)

TRTermite said:


> QUESTION... I have used "Tordon RTU in summer but want to cut and treat small (2" and some up to 12")walnut maple and other trees this winter. I am not familiar (YET) with Garlon 3 . I assume Garlon will be cheaper but will the tordon be effective in winter?


No


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## ATH (Jan 18, 2022)

Agreed...Garlon is more effective in winter. Especially Garlon 4.

Tordon is actually cheaper than Garlon...


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## TRTermite (Jan 19, 2022)

TheJollyLogger said:


> No





ATH said:


> Agreed...Garlon is more effective in winter. Especially Garlon 4.
> 
> Tordon is actually cheaper than Garlon...


Thanks for the fast answer(S) It is a good thing I asked. I was going to choose between Tordon or Garlon 3 Wasn't considering Garlon 4. I am going to dose the stump (and probably brush it on)... Dare I suggest - diesel fuel as an oil carrier. No wet lands just river bottom ground less than an acre. I want to cut not spray due to being in town limits and drift. Even without drift farmers around here spray brush and Sometimes heat vapors similar to fog with the (?) herbicide rise out of the hollows and are blamed for neighboring shrubbery and tree loss.


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## ATH (Jan 19, 2022)

Yes...diesel is a good carrier for Garlon 4. Kerosene too - a little thinner and smells a little less.

This mix works great as a basal bark spray on thin-barked trees. Just spray it right on the bark all the way around the tree from about 3' up down to the ground and the tree will die. It takes significantly more product to do this vs. treating cut stumps. I'm not sure it is a big time saver either. On smaller trees, I can have it cut off and squirted as quickly as spraying all the way around. But it is an option.

For cut stumps, just get it on the outer ring of the stump and maybe a little onto the bark. No need to treat the middle.

Volatilization: probably coming from dicamba on the farms. Maybe 2, 4-D. Well documented problem with dicamba. Garlon 4 can move a little bit. It is an ester formulation while Garlon 3 is an ammine formulation. This is only a problem if temps are over 80-85 degrees (F) or so. Below that, it won't readily volatilize.


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## TRTermite (Jan 19, 2022)

ATH said:


> Yes...diesel is a good carrier for Garlon 4. Kerosene too - a little thinner and smells a little less.
> 
> This mix works great as a basal bark spray on thin-barked trees. Just spray it right on the bark all the way around the tree from about 3' up down to the ground and the tree will die. It takes significantly more product to do this vs. treating cut stumps. I'm not sure it is a big time saver either. On smaller trees, I can have it cut off and squirted as quickly as spraying all the way around. But it is an option.
> 
> ...


Double THANKS for your detailed answers. I saw a quote another member had here on AS. Linus Van Pelt (Peanuts) Pointing out the obvious differences between an amateur and a Professional. Your posts really impress me by the simplicity (My ability to understand them) yet concise .. Thanks


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## TRTermite (Jan 19, 2022)

I am seeing "Triclopyr 4" as being an alternative to "Garlon 4". Any objections?


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## ATH (Jan 19, 2022)

TRTermite said:


> I am seeing "Triclopyr 4" as being an alternative to "Garlon 4". Any objections?


Good to go. That is what I use unless Garlon is close to the same price. If I were going to the store to by "Advil", pretty good odds, I'm coming home with store brand ibuprofen. Same idea.


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## TRTermite (Jan 19, 2022)

Thanks for the Piece of Mind.. Something that is some times threatened with to much THINKING.


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## Rand Nelson (Jan 27, 2022)

Following this thread with great interest - we have some similar plans (minus the funding). Not meaning to highjack, but a related question - thoughts from the group on winter dormant stem treatments on multiflora rose? Some of the clumps we have are just too big to get close enough to the main stems for good basal bark coverage. Is this a good alternative now when we have snow cover at the stump? Is triclopyr a good choice? We've got some Pathfinder RTU.

Thanks-


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## ATH (Jan 27, 2022)

Yes, Triclopyr now is good.

However, how can you not get close enough to spray it with a 30-in long wand, but you can get in there to cut it? Clearing saw?


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## ShermanC (Jan 27, 2022)

Your desired end result should be the guide for how you clear the site. A skid steer with a forestry mulcher will make mince meat of all vegetation. OTOH if you want to use the tractor, *have a helpe*r on the ground. You could use your N9 tractor, swing chain and a welded metal hoop over there hitchball on the loader and both sizes of Brush Grubber from Northern Tool. Warning: it is a messy slow process. NMHYDI, spray with herbicide after it's cleared or you'll be back on site singing the same old song in a few years. I did two intense property makeovers in 2020 where there were established homes. I didn't charge enough for our work. A skid steer would have ruined the sod so we had to take the less-damaging method with a Kubota tractor.


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## ShermanC (Jan 27, 2022)

Woody912 said:


> I like to spray with Crossroad in the summer to kill the entire plant then chainsaw and burn in the winter. Never ending prociess


Even if you mow clean and spray herbicide, the process to convert wild forest to a lawn takes many hours and equipment applications.


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## CacaoBoy (Jan 27, 2022)

I'm late to seeing this thread. To pull out weed trees by the roots I use a 3/8" tow chain with a 3/8" clevis slip hook on one end.





Normally I put 2 wraps of the chain around the trunk at ground level, then hook to the chain, and it tightens when pulled with my tractor. There is a limited range of size trees this works with -- too small and the trunk just breaks -- and I am pulling trees with root structures that are limited. This also works for pulling clumps of guinea grass. The chain with slip hook is handy for many purposes so basically the equipment is free. To kill standing trees I use Milestone -- a few chops with a hatchet around the trunk, then squirt a bit into each slash with a syringe, then wait.


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## Rand Nelson (Jan 31, 2022)

ATH said:


> Yes, Triclopyr now is good.
> 
> However, how can you not get close enough to spray it with a 30-in long wand, but you can get in there to cut it? Clearing saw?


Thanks for the confirmation.
Wish I had a clearing saw.... Nah, I'm not figuring on cutting it - that's why we were hoping the dormant-stem treatment would work. If we can kill it over the winter with the Pathfinder, then we can just crunch it down with the bucket on the tractor this summer when it's dry & brittle, where we need to. The rest we'll just leave - maybe it'll provide some deer protection to the [hopeful] regeneration we're expecting once the MFR is gone?


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## ElevatorGuy (Jan 31, 2022)

I use a bush grubber bg-08. It works great! I don’t bother cutting small stuff.


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## kenmbz (Jan 31, 2022)

I have a tractor with a toothbar.
Some straps for pulling. 
A pole saw to allow overhead clearance.
A Stihl FS110 with brushcutter blade for initial clearing.
Once I have used the BC and Polesaw, I take the tractor through and lift out the small stuff 1-4" with the toothbar, get under and pop up.

Does take time though.

Once I have it all down, I do a walk to take out the rocks and then use a flail on the back of the tractor for where I want trails.

The BC can take out 100-200' of honey suckle and wild berry thorns in a few hours.

Even without the tractor I can get the areas pretty clean.

Before:


After, and ready for any rip out of roots with the bucket/toothbar.


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## Mad Professor (Jul 8, 2022)

AKoz said:


> I'm not sure what you meant by "weld a nut onto the outside of the pipe to secure the other end". While most likely on your hands and knees you have the chain going through the pipe once, then you wrap it around the tree/shrub, then pass it back through the pipe and secure it to the outside of the pipe. Then cinch it snug. When I'm in that situation I prefer to just hook something and get out. Your description does give me some ideas on how to attach that end without having to pass something bigger than the chain back through the pipe.
> 
> I have a few MC shops nearby. I'll stop by and try my luck getting a decommissioned chain. For this limited work would a punch and hammer suffice for removing the pins?
> 
> ...



I screwed up my arm last winter so project was on hold. Sorry I didn't get back to the thread sooner.

Those connecters look ideal if they are close to pin size of a large MC chain. Where do you source them?

To get chain pins out just take a cut off grinder and take the pins down to the side links, give them a few wacks with a hammer and punch.

What I meant by "Weld a nut" to outside of pipe was, weld one of the flats to the pipe so it sticks out, then you'd have an eye to put a pin/bolt through to connect the end of the chain. I'm thinking easier to have that end removable, than having to thread the chain through the pipe over and over with each new pull.


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## TheJollyLogger (Jul 9, 2022)

I remember this thread. Honestly, for that much acreage I would just rent a mini ex and just grub them out. Done in a day.


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## AKoz (Jul 20, 2022)

Mad Professor said:


> I screwed up my arm last winter so project was on hold. Sorry I didn't get back to the thread sooner.
> 
> Those connecters look ideal if they are close to pin size of a large MC chain. Where do you source them?
> 
> ...


I found those connectors by searching for "clevis swivel connector".

I went to two motorcycle dealers, Harley and Indian, and they say they don't use chains anymore but use belts instead. I'll keep my eyes open but it sounds like ATVs and other newer stuff has gone that way as well.


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## Bill G (Jul 21, 2022)

TheJollyLogger said:


> I remember this thread. Honestly, for that much acreage I would just rent a mini ex and just grub them out. Done in a day.


A tacked skid loader with brush puller is by far the fastest as most effective way of doing the job with the least ground disturbance. Pull stack, pull stack the push the stacks to a pile and burn


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