# The Evolution of an Invention



## jomoco (Nov 14, 2009)

As soon as I saw a vid of the wraptor powered rope ascending device dragging a climber up a single rope, something started in my head that led to this pathetic self powered contraption.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDHkcqTY4CM

But like many inventions will do, it led in turn to a little lightbulb in my mind lighting up telling me to look at the objective from an entirely new angle, while saving the essential mechanically advantaged aspects of the system, I repackaged those aspects, shrank it down to a quasi backpack configuration to be worn behind me, with an unimpeded ability to either work or ascend in front of me. You will have a choice of engaging either one or two legs to power up the rope with mechanical advantage, engagement occurs via a simple lever position on either side behind you at waist level.

The paradigm change from having your rope and it's functional support from in front of you, to behind you, will be hard to get accustomed to at first, but once you realise the advantage of all that stuff being behind you and providing an unobstructed work area in front of you?

You'll be hanging face down like a spider, nothing in front of you, everything behind you, with the ability to engage one or both legs at the touch of a lever, and pump them up and down in the air to ascend. Or you can disengage legs, and reach behind your waist to engage the descension lever on the backpack unit.

I see the whole backpack unit weighing less than 20 pounds.

When you think about it, in a traditional climber's rope and saddle configuration for pruning, the actual work you need to accomplish is generally behind you, which is why floating D ring saddle's are so popular for pruners.

Maybe I am crazy. I certainly intend to find out the degree of my madness.

jomoco


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## tree md (Nov 14, 2009)

Ha! That's awesome Jomoco!!! I was hoping I would be able to see it in use. Have you actually tried it yet?

A tree bicycle... What will they think of next??? That's crazy!


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## jomoco (Nov 14, 2009)

tree md said:


> Ha! That's awesome Jomoco!!! I was hoping I would be able to see it in use. Have you actually tried it yet?
> 
> A tree bicycle... What will they think of next??? That's crazy!



The JB Weld is makin me noivous see!

Yeah that's it, noives.

With a 10 inch OD drive drum, it should go up at a pretty good clip depending on your fitness level, which in my case is as pathetic as my contraption's!

Atleast I'm tryin tu keep up with you young whipper snappers!

jomoco


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## tree md (Nov 14, 2009)

Looking forward to seeing some footage once you get it up and running. Very cool!


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## treevet (Nov 14, 2009)

I know a fellow inventor that might help you with the finishing touches.....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypYEYaD-duA&NR=1


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## pdqdl (Nov 14, 2009)

I like the concept, but I am not convinced of the backpack approach. If it is attached behind you, that would make it rather difficult to fix or inspect if something goes wrong midflight.

Perhaps a "swing it out of the way" approach?


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## jomoco (Nov 14, 2009)

pdqdl said:


> I like the concept, but I am not convinced of the backpack approach. If it is attached behind you, that would make it rather difficult to fix or inspect if something goes wrong midflight.
> 
> Perhaps a "swing it out of the way" approach?



No the backpack approach is the ticket, flexible active support from the waist and thighs. You could basically assume the TV superman flying position, engage both leg ratchets, and raise yourself straight up by pretending to jog in mid-air.

This device could be used all the time, rather than just reaching your TIP with it.

It will be a radical paradigm shift for an old school climbing dog like me, but something about approaching suspended treework like a spider has always appealed to me on a purely logical basis. Nothing in front of me has a lateral limbwalking potential using both arms and legs that may prove hard to match.

It should be an interesting arboreal project. Maybe I've found my missing prehensile tail!

jomoco


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## CaseyForrest (Nov 14, 2009)

Looks good jomoco. Id like to see it in use. 

Good idea.


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## ozzy42 (Nov 15, 2009)

+1


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## davej (Nov 15, 2009)

jomoco said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDHkcqTY4CM




I need something like that to pull my truck up the driveway in the winter.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Nov 15, 2009)

jomoco said:


> No the backpack approach is the ticket, flexible active support from the waist and thighs. You could basically assume the TV superman flying position, engage both leg ratchets, and raise yourself straight up by pretending to jog in mid-air.



I would think something more in line with the _Rope Walker _concept.


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## jomoco (Nov 15, 2009)

You obviously didn't watch enough buck rogers, the jetsons or jonny quest as a child JPS!

Have you put away childish things?

jomoco


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## John Paul Sanborn (Nov 15, 2009)

MMmmm, I'm 43 and climb trees???


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## treevet (Nov 15, 2009)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> MMmmm, I'm 43 and climb trees???



:hmm3grin2orange:


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## jomoco (Nov 15, 2009)

Think of it like a turtle shell backpack with a gearbox inside allowing you 4 choices of engagement means to operate, one leg, two legs, one arm, two arms, or if you really want to get engaged, switch on both arms and legs and haul butt straight up that rope by just going through the motions of jogging in mid air touching absolutely nothing.

It would not be very large or heavy, the unit itself can be entirely shielded in a tear drop shell withnothing but flexible rope entrance and exit feeds at the top and bottom.

Kind of a teenage mutant tree climbing turtle?

Remember the drive wheel axis even with a 10 inch OD drive wheel, can be turned 90 degrees on the backpack frame, giving your backpack a thickness of 4-6 inches from your back, the 14 inch width from shoulder to shoulder is a perfect fit.

It will be both novel and strange, perhaps even dangerous, further testing is called for.

Imagine 4 pivoting ratchets coming out of this backpack, two attaching to your rear thighs just above the knee, with a simple padded pivotal belt, these two ratchets attach to the pack at your hip level. The other two ratchets
attach to the pack at shoulder level, and to your rear arms behind your lower triceps, just above your elbow.

With none of the ratchets engaged, you should be able to do jumping jacks hanging in mid air with no resistence until you engage one or all of the ratcheting arms.

jomoco


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## jomoco (Nov 15, 2009)

Well I took my prototype rope climber out to Harbison Canyon today for a field test in some big trees.

And while originally I intended to test in my nephews oaks at his home there, that gut instinct told me to make a fool of myself in a secluded area, in a euc grove across the street, alone, which I did.

Single true blue line installed in a big euc over 50 feet up, prototype attached to the line, bottom weights on the rope below the device.
Climb onto the device, tie my taughtline hitch above on the rope, get comfortable in harness, and started pedal ratcheting up the line using both legs.

At 25 feet up my left ratcheting pedal's JB weld failed at the crank and fell to the ground. Determined to go higher I kept on going using the right pedaling ratchet alone, at a little over 30 feet it too failed at the crank junction and fell to the ground.

Thankful that I was alone and not on video, I worked both taught line hitches, the unit's and mine, and returned slowly to the ground safely.

Putting the pieces of the unit away in my truck, I then decided to experiment a bit with the hanging rope from the euc to support me in my saddle, from behind. Using two short nylon loops and biners, I cinched off each of my lower D rings with a nylon loop. Running my right lower D ring loop in front of me through my left waist D ring, and vice versa with the other loop, then clipping both loops together behind me with a biner, then clipping into the rope about 10 feet off the ground, allowed me to step off truck's toolboxes, and assume the TV superman position in mid-air for the first time.

A bit uncomfortable no doubt, but with a few more loops and biners cinched just below my knees and clipped to the highest biner on the rope, I was able to stand upright and relieve most of the weight from my waist very effectively.

I even took a few test jumps off my toolboxes, catching most of my weight with my legs rather than waist. Very comfortable and secure using the knee straps for weight distribution, and the upper waist D rings as a stable pivoting point.

I think I'm going to use this failed prototype one more time just to determine the optimum crank rope drum size, which I think will be a 12 inch OD drum rather than a 5 inch OD drum.

I also know how to do away with the lower rope weight now, and replace it with a one way clutched wheel assembly at the bottom of the unit's main rope drive drum, with simple spring pressure on a swing arm, rather like a trailing belt tensioner.

From the ashes of embarrassing failure, valuable insights and knowledge are sometimes gleaned.

jomoco


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## treevet (Nov 15, 2009)

Maybe you could sell some of these nifty devices on tv like your fellow inventor Ralph Kramden. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yB5a6y3okeo


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## jomoco (Nov 15, 2009)

treevet said:


> Maybe you could sell some of these nifty devices on tv like your fellow inventor Ralph Kramden.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yB5a6y3okeo



Careful Alice, or it's bang zoom to the moon!

I coulda been a contender if my JB weld had held I tell yu!

jomoco


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## tree md (Nov 15, 2009)

Here's what I would look like on the thing...


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## treevet (Nov 15, 2009)

tree md said:


> Here's what I would look like on the thing...



me too

some film footage of jomoco's test yesterday and what was REALLY in the backpack!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAJBXtVg8nQ


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## tree md (Nov 15, 2009)

treevet said:


> me too
> 
> some film footage of jomoco's test yesterday and what was REALLY in the backpack!
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAJBXtVg8nQ



LOL!

With them playing "I believe I can fly...I believe I can touch the sky.." in the background.


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## tree md (Nov 15, 2009)

A little inspiration for you Jomoco:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svl1t4b1RD4


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## jomoco (Nov 15, 2009)

You must know me, cuz I've got that album, straight out of the 80's!

"The last man to be here was never heard from again,

he won't be back this way till 2010."

jomoco


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## jomoco (Nov 17, 2009)

How do you engineer an 8 speed gearbox for prototype 2 of my rope ascendor?

With two of these, allowing me to spin my drive axis 90 degrees with a miniscule loss of power delivery efficiency.

http://www.dynamicbicycles.com/chainless/

One for arms, with a coice of 8 gears, and one for legs with a choice of 8 gears also.

I have every intention of out performing the wraptor under my own power guys.

Now that I have a choice of 8 gears, that little lightbulb in my head is blinking again telling me that a spool on your back with 100 feet of rope on it would not weigh too much, and that there's really no need at all to have any rope whatsoever below me, except perhaps an anchor line for my TIP, independent from me, tied off at the base, and perhaps very handy for aerial rescue from the ground?

jomoco


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## Hddnis (Nov 17, 2009)

I'll be following this invention. It is similar to an idea I've been thinking about and sketching since last winter. 

Do you have access to a welder? Mig or Tig?


Mr. HE


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## jomoco (Nov 17, 2009)

I just hit my buddy Mike Mazzone up, and he's a friggin perfectionist.

http://www.sandcar.com/

jomoco


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## Hddnis (Nov 17, 2009)

I sent you some rep for thinking and being willing to try your ideas. 


Mr. HE


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## John Paul Sanborn (Nov 18, 2009)

I've heard/read somewhere that there is a continuous velocity, or shiftless bike out there, just costs several $k


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## jomoco (Nov 18, 2009)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> I've heard/read somewhere that there is a continuous velocity, or shiftless bike out there, just costs several $k



As soon as I saw that Dynamic shaft drive using bevel gears, with a choice of 8 gears, it was obvious to me the ability to gear down 8 times will compensate for the growing OD of rope on the spool as you near the top of the tree, exactly like a true spider!

jomoco


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## John Paul Sanborn (Nov 18, 2009)

jomoco said:


> ... will compensate for the growing OD of rope on the spool...
> jomoco



Seems to me that that will be a pretty big spool with 100ft of rope. I was envisioning something that self tailed and spilled the rope out the backside of the spool.

There are plenty of boating winches with tailing jaws out there you could find any diameter you need.


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## jomoco (Nov 18, 2009)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> Seems to me that that will be a pretty big spool with 100ft of rope. I was envisioning something that self tailed and spilled the rope out the backside of the spool.
> 
> There are plenty of boating winches with tailing jaws out there you could find any diameter you need.



One model's development, by no means precludes developing another version, utilising the very real mechanical advantages of the original concept/prototype.

In my opinion both models should have tailing mechanisms at both the rope spool feed point, and exit point. Tautness and uniform rope lay on the spool are paramount to a dependable and safe operating prototype.

100 feet of true blue weighs what? 15-20 lbs?

Holy mackerel! Only 8.8 lbs! No problemo JPS!

jomoco


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## jefflovstrom (Nov 18, 2009)

I have to admit, this is getting interesting!
Jeff


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## John Paul Sanborn (Nov 19, 2009)

jomoco said:


> 100 feet of true blue weighs what? 15-20 lbs?
> 
> Holy mackerel! Only 8.8 lbs! No problemo JPS!
> 
> jomoco



I was thinking volumetric, not mass.

Maybe a static-line would work better on something like that with the stepping motion, and km-III is 7lbs/100ft

1/2", White/Blue, KM III Static, New England 1/2 inch (12.5mm) White (Blue) mbs 10,341 lbf. (46kN) 7 lbs (3.2kg) / 100 ft 1.10 FT


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## davej (Nov 19, 2009)

Well, be careful if you crank this evolving thing backwards... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lc6U7_-BeGc&feature=related


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## tree md (Feb 18, 2010)

Just wondering if anyone has heard from Jomoco since his last test of the prototype... I'd hate to think of him out there orbiting Earth perpetually... :hmm3grin2orange:


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## jomoco (Feb 18, 2010)

Kinda serendipitously funny that you chose today to bump this old thread Tree MD, since the JB weld casted modification to my rope bike's drive capstan was poured last night, and tested at home today successfully!

After two miserable failed field tests in which the 3 wraps on the capstan walked sideways and derailed before I could get 10-15 feet up the rope, it was nothing but sheer stubborn refusal to admit failure that led to this current drive capstan finally tracking true under load.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iBuYtmw304

I tried a spiraled worm gear capstan design to physically walk that rope in the right direction, and failed. Then just figuring out how to cast the incline plane at the capstan's initial feed point without tearing the unit apart took another week of trial and error, but it does track true at home, tomorrow field test number 3 will tell the real story.

I suspect that an hourglass designed capstan will be the only way to get the unit to track true in both directions.

I can't believe I spent so much time and effort on this particular prototype since my new design spools the rope into a backpack, making whether the rope tracks true or not irrelevant to it's function. I guess it's against my nature to give up before the job's done!

If it works in the field tomorrow, I'll post my success in vid here. If not? It may be another week or two!

jomoco


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## ssurveyor (Feb 18, 2010)

I look forward to your vid, keep plugging.

do you weight the tail end of the rope to get the capstan to keep a purchase on the rope?

Gordon


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## jomoco (Feb 18, 2010)

ssurveyor said:


> I look forward to your vid, keep plugging.
> 
> do you weight the tail end of the rope to get the capstan to keep a purchase on the rope?
> 
> Gordon



Yes, with a 5 gallon bucket of water.

For some reason I'm convinced I can ascend faster on this selfpowered contraption than the new twostroke powered ascendors like the Wraptor, which to me is a funny name, since you don't actually take a full wrap on the unit's capstan, which isn't really a true capstan so much as a cam powered rope squeezing pulley.

I've got the gearing on this vertical rope climbing bike just about right for a relatively quick ascension, provided my 3 wraps on the capstan track true all the way up this time.

jomoco


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## jefflovstrom (Feb 18, 2010)

Jomoco is going for the carbon tax credits! Just joking Jon! Interesting tho-

Jeff


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## jomoco (Feb 18, 2010)

Well I certainly got a little taste of how al gore must feel, about 15 feet off the ground in a tangled embarrassing mess!

Must be my english blood and churchillian resolve to never surrender!

jomoco


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## jefflovstrom (Feb 18, 2010)

You a witty dude! You gonna let me check out your next try- I am always near and around?
Jeff


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## jomoco (Feb 18, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> You a witty dude! You gonna let me check out your next try- I am always near and around?
> Jeff



I tell you what Jeff, you buy a Wraptor, and pick any spry fellow on your crews to run it, including yourself, and we can have a race to 75 or 100 feet in one of the bigger eucs hereabouts, perhaps even at the PTCA seminar this spring in Balboa park?

jomoco


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## John Paul Sanborn (Feb 19, 2010)

jomoco said:


> I suspect that an hourglass designed capstan will be the only way to get the unit to track true in both directions.



I would think a slightly conical capstan drum would work better then the hourglass, since you want it to tend in one direction, vs the center.


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## jomoco (Feb 19, 2010)

It all depends on the rope's feed and exit locations being controlled so that when ascending the feed point steers the rope onto the fatter OD of the outer capstan with the wraps tailing towards the smaller OD in the middle and exiting downwards towards the captive eye. This will keep the tracking true going up, however the opposite is true if you want to be able to reverse direction and go down, meaning that you need a fatter OD on both ends of the capstan if you want your three wraps to track true whether going up or down, hence the hourglass configuration of the capstan is a must if you want true tracking in both directions.

Under load, the wraps must slide towards the middle at a constant rate to avoid overlapping on the rightside feed point going up, the same is true at the the leftside feed point when going down.

Remember that what I'm designing here is not quite the same as a sailing capstan where the capstan is a fixed position with the rope moving through it. This VRCB is the opposite in that the rope is in a fixed position with the capstan moving along it.

jomoco


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## davej (Feb 19, 2010)

jomoco said:


> Think of it like a turtle shell backpack with a gearbox inside allowing you 4 choices of engagement means to operate...



I'd predict you'll eventually have to abandon the backpack concept unless the working assembly could alternately be pulled around front for inspection. Those ratcheting wrenches could have footstraps hung from them.


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## jomoco (Feb 19, 2010)

davej said:


> I'd predict you'll eventually have to abandon the backpack concept unless the working assembly could alternately be pulled around front for inspection. Those ratcheting wrenches could have footstraps hung from them.



The whole point of the geared backpack spool ascendor is to have nothing impeding your work area in front of you, and no ropes below you whatsoever, a true spider hanging from it's thread configuration.

I can spool over 100 feet of 7/16ths wire rope onto my Warner 12K lb winch's capstan dependably, time after time, without worry of it snarling, without a tailer like the backpack will have.

This rather radical design concept is primarily aimed towards a commercial pruning and recreational climbing market, though I intend to atleast try it in a strategic removal scenario, just to check it out.

No, it would be a pruners climbing system for sure, and would really rock with pneumatic tools and an integrated pressure hose/climbing rope combo, powered by an on the ground mobile air compressor.

Push button cuts up to 2 inches as fast as you can pull the trigger!

jomoco


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## tree md (Feb 19, 2010)

Looking forward to seeing some vid of your next flight buddy!

Some more inspiration!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWH01DBJxlo


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## ssurveyor (Feb 20, 2010)

*TADZ device*

I thought you may like my friction ascender idea. Here is a picture of my working model. It has a freewheeling pulley sheave at each apex and works as trolley block, or ascender and descender, the carabiner hooks into the harness and binds on the sheave when weighted.


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## jefflovstrom (Feb 20, 2010)

Kinda cool- works?
Jeff


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## jomoco (Feb 20, 2010)

ssurveyor said:


> I thought you may like my friction ascender idea. Here is a picture of my working model. It has a freewheeling pulley sheave at each apex and works as trolley block, or ascender and descender, the carabiner hooks into the harness and binds on the sheave when weighted.




It's a brilliant innovation Surveyor, but I doubt many will understand how it works until you do a vid of it in action getting you up and down a tree.

Is it a novel idea, or an improved version of another ascending tool?

jomoco


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## ssurveyor (Feb 20, 2010)

*TADZ device*

I have never seen anything like it, but I am new to climbing gear.

It works using DRT and is self advancing. I would like to try it with a single rope, using the third pulley to rig a Z lift system, but I lack a cinch to make it work.


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## jomoco (Feb 22, 2010)

Well guys, I took my vertical rope climbing bike to the local park today for field test #3, risking public ridicule in a chinese elm.

But this time my VRCB tracked true!

I took a vid that's rather long and boring at 6 minutes, it's uploading on youtube now.

While not quite ready to race a wraptor yet, with some pedal clips and a little luck, it won't be long now.

This bloody contraption really works!

Video to follow shortly.

jomoco


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## jomoco (Feb 22, 2010)

Well guys, I took my vertical rope climbing bike to the local park today for field test #3, risking public ridicule in a chinese elm.

But this time my VRCB tracked true!

I took a vid that's rather long and boring at 6 minutes, it's uploading on youtube now.

While not quite ready to race a wraptor yet, with some pedal clips and a little luck, it won't be long now.

This bloody contraption really works!

Video to follow shortly.


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## jomoco (Feb 23, 2010)

This video is rather boring, but was a huge victory for me personally, in that it proves my design really does work as intended.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioiBDg3_How

Now I need to test it in a real tree!

jomoco


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## ssurveyor (Feb 23, 2010)

*neat*

Bravo! You'll have to have someone else video you as you ascend.

How much does it weigh?


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## jomoco (Feb 23, 2010)

I'm guessing between 25-30 lbs.

But this pathetic contraption was meant to validate the concept and little more.

I suspect that a professionally designed and engineered VRCB could weigh less than 12 lbs. I envision one that folds in half to thread the rope onto it's capstan, and then locks back together.

I see no reason it couldn't be built and sold for around 500 bucks. It's actually a very simple mechanism outside the capstan drive OD configuration.

Can the wraptor both ascend and descend under power? Or is it like my VRCB, pretty much a one-way ticket up?

jomoco


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## ssurveyor (Feb 23, 2010)

*pinch roller*

seems like you could descend if you ran the tail line through a geared pinch roller (sort of like the old style clothes wringer), which would pull tension when ascending and feed slack when cranked in reverse.


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## jomoco (Feb 23, 2010)

ssurveyor said:


> seems like you could descend if you ran the tail line through a geared pinch roller (sort of like the old style clothes wringer), which would pull tension when ascending and feed slack when cranked in reverse.



It would need to be driven by and synchronized to the capstan, much like a self tailing winch. Believe me, I learned the hard way that a butterfly/hourglass configured drive capstan, is an absolute must for true tracking both ways, and I have no doubt that it can be done quite easily.

It would be a nice attribute to be able to stop and descend at will.

jomoco


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## Tree Machine (Feb 25, 2010)

jomoco said:


> It would be a nice attribute to be able to stop and descend at will.
> 
> jomoco


Ideally, you would use the capstan itself as a friction controller. You would just need tie-offs (wrapping posts) at the critical places and in specific configurations .

Seriously, the way you've described this ascent device, I'm thinking you could change over to descent as easily as unwrapping a wrap and hand-belaying. If the capstsan is picking up 90% or better of the friction, control the tail by hand and just know where your soft lock and hard lock is for stopping and work positioning.

Having the backpack, and the capstan out of sight complicates this a bit, but it still remains possible.

Keep feeding us, Jomoco.


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## jefflovstrom (Feb 25, 2010)

Tree Machine said:


> Ideally, you would use the capstan itself as a friction controller. You would just need tie-offs (wrapping posts) at the critical places and in specific configurations .
> 
> Seriously, the way you've described this ascent device, I'm thinking you could change over to descent as easily as unwrapping a wrap and hand-belaying. If the capstsan is picking up 90% or better of the friction, control the tail by hand and just know where your soft lock and hard lock is for stopping and work positioning.
> 
> ...



Does that mean the bike comes down with the capstan or does he need to go get it?
Jeff
Still not buying a wraptor, ( yet).


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## John Paul Sanborn (Feb 26, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> Does that mean the bike comes down with the capstan or does he need to go get it?
> Jeff
> Still not buying a wraptor, ( yet).



With the work you guys do the product seems to be a no-brainer.


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## jomoco (Mar 6, 2010)

Well I finally hooked up with my old school arborist hero and friend Rich Magargal this morning in Balboa park. Rich took a while getting his hands on the old VHS videotape of him pruning Canary Island date palms old school style, and while the primo footage was lost, I did get one tape of him in action for conversion to a digital format along with some of my old VHS from the early 90's.

Rich was kind enough to vid this footage of me climbing about 50 feet up a euc on my VRCB. He couldn't help crackin wise about whether I was sure I didn't need an engine at the 40 foot mark in the vid. Too many cigars on my part no doubt!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktTPmx_LMQc

While not quite ready to race a wraptor yet, I'm getting there, and the VRCB is tracking true.

jomoco


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## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 6, 2010)

It's like bigfoot footage, I'm seeing something  I can tell that you are working the kinks out though!


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 6, 2010)

Dang, takes forever to watch! All the waiting on you-tube! We did 11 Canary Dates on Thursday and all the guys climbed over the ball and removed all the fruit. Sorry OOMT, it is done all the tome here. Jon, you are on to something!
Good job!
Jeff


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 6, 2010)

Dang, takes forever to watch! All the waiting on you-tube! We did 11 Canary Dates on Thursday and all the guys climbed over the ball and removed all the fruit. Sorry OOMT, it is done all the time here. Jon, you are on to something!
Good job!
Jeff


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## jomoco (Mar 6, 2010)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> It's like bigfoot footage, I'm seeing something  I can tell that you are working the kinks out though!



I know, the vid quality sucks big time JPS, I need to quit foolin around and buy the latest POV 1.5 helmetcam with the wide angle lens already!

Regardless though, I'm fairly sure that right now I have the world's very first vertical rope climbing bike, such as it is.

jomoco


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## jomoco (Mar 6, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> Dang, takes forever to watch! All the waiting on you-tube! We did 11 Canary Dates on Thursday and all the guys climbed over the ball and removed all the fruit. Sorry OOMT, it is done all the time here. Jon, you are on to something!
> Good job!
> Jeff




Thanks Jeff, I actually took a vid of Magargal this morning, but it came out even worse than the VRCB vid, just a silhouette of him looking like a mob informer trying to protect his identity!

Makes me appreciate Reg's vids even more!

I'm a tree worker, not a videographer!

jomoco


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## ssurveyor (Mar 6, 2010)

I like it. Can you manually lift tension off the tail rope and use the capstan as a friction descender also?

I am playing with a worm gear winch, driven by an electric drill, but the 1 1/4" dia.x 2" winch shaft wraps the rope up into a tangle when I try to use it as a capstan. I wish I could take some measurements of the capstan you use. Is it made of metal?

Here is my fourth generation TADZ device. It ascends very nicely, but grips tenaciously and doesn't release very well for the descent.

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e33/gdsandkes/100_1023.jpg


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## jomoco (Mar 6, 2010)

ssurveyor said:


> I like it. Can you manually lift tension off the tail rope and use the capstan as a friction descender also?
> 
> I am playing with a worm gear winch, driven by an electric drill, but the 1 1/4" dia.x 2" winch shaft wraps the rope up into a tangle when I try to use it as a capstan. I wish I could take some measurements of the capstan you use. Is it made of metal?
> 
> ...



Negative on any descending yet on the VRCB, it would have to have an hourglass shaped capstan to do that.

My current VRCB capstan has about a 4 inch OD that grows fatter on only one end, the ascension end, making it a oneway trip up. The capstan is a combination of steel, aluminum and JB Weld forming the eliptical incline plane on it's ascension side, and it was a SOB to cast and pour.

However I believe that even the wraptor can't descend either, but I'm not positive on that.

jomoco


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## ssurveyor (Mar 6, 2010)

Ok, thanks for the info. I have only seen video of the wraptor and don't know if it descends. 

You can buy "bow" rollers used on boat trailers, but they seem to be made of rubber or acrylic only.


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## jomoco (Mar 6, 2010)

ssurveyor said:


> Ok, thanks for the info. I have only seen video of the wraptor and don't know if it descends.
> 
> You can buy "bow" rollers used on boat trailers, but they seem to be made of rubber or acrylic only.



Bow rollers from a boat trailer, that's great Surveyor!

Particularly the keel rollers right in the middle. If you could get the right OD,width and incline grades, even if it were plastic it could be used to make a negative casting to pour an aluminum capstan from.

Having my brother machine one from round block at the machine shop is what I'll end up doing I'm sure though, despite the price for a single run on a CNC lathe.

I'll never be able to afford a POV helmetcam at this rate!

jomoco


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## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 7, 2010)

Aren't those bow rollers HDPT or whatever?


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## Tom Dunlap (Apr 11, 2010)

Like JPS said, it's like watching a Bigfoot video!

For us to see how this thing works you can rig a treadmill setup on your rope. Instead of having your ascending rope anchored at the top or bottom run it through a belay device at the bottom. Then, as you 'ascend' your belayer gives slack so that you never move up the rope. Then your cam operator can get a decent picture.

Be sure to tape the action with a good background so that you show up in profile without background clutter. Shooting with the sun at your back makes for a cleaner picture too.

going back to another JPS...what is the advantage of this over a Rope Walker setup? Unless there is a real need for a mechanical advantage for the climber a RW is simpler. If a climber needs the amplify their strength there might be a reason not to have them in the tree. Of course, there are special needs, but in a production climbing situation I don't think that I would want to have someone with less than full personal ability in the tree.


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## jomoco (Apr 11, 2010)

Tom Dunlap said:


> going back to another JPS...what is the advantage of this over a Rope Walker setup? Unless there is a real need for a mechanical advantage for the climber a RW is simpler. If a climber needs the amplify their strength there might be a reason not to have them in the tree. Of course, there are special needs, but in a production climbing situation I don't think that I would want to have someone with less than full personal ability in the tree.



You're right Tom, it was a stupid idea, suitable for only special needs climbers like me, who need to know if building a vertical rope climbing bike can be done?

jomoco


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## Tom Dunlap (Apr 11, 2010)

Stupid??? That's your word...

Go easy on yourself, Jomo.

Keep fine tuning it has some potential.


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## jomoco (Apr 11, 2010)

Gee thanks Tom, I feel much better now that you think my VRCB might have some potential.

jomoco


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## Tom Dunlap (Apr 11, 2010)

Jomo,

Are you patronizing? 

Everything has potential, somethings more than others. A pedaled ascending system could be refined into a usable machine. Whether you can come up with something that has a value to anyone but yourself doesn't make a difference unless you're trying to make money marketing the invention. 

My use of the term 'special needs' didn't have anything to do with anyone who has a mental, medical or psychological disability. A better term might be 'specific situation'.


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## jomoco (Apr 11, 2010)

Tom Dunlap said:


> Jomo,
> 
> Are you patronizing?
> 
> ...



I'm most assuredly being both patronizing and sarcastic Tom, drippingly so. And relieved that you caught on to the extent of trying to explain what a special needs climber is, and failed.

Why not ask Paul why he developed his Wraptor? It can pull an obese special needs climber up a tree easily, no need for chubby to pedal or anything.

Note the title of this thread Tom, it means novel ideas evolving into improved and better products and tools.

jomoco


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## John Paul Sanborn (Apr 12, 2010)

I've used the Wraptor a number of times, and like it. I do not see any problem with a bike style either. 

I've been special needs for near two decades now, I'm rated 80% with the VA. Anything to take some of the effort out of the job makes sense to me.


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## jefflovstrom (Jul 14, 2012)

jomoco said:


> Well I finally hooked up with my old school arborist hero and friend Rich Magargal this morning in Balboa park. Rich took a while getting his hands on the old VHS videotape of him pruning Canary Island date palms old school style, and while the primo footage was lost, I did get one tape of him in action for conversion to a digital format along with some of my old VHS from the early 90's.
> 
> Rich was kind enough to vid this footage of me climbing about 50 feet up a euc on my VRCB. He couldn't help crackin wise about whether I was sure I didn't need an engine at the 40 foot mark in the vid. Too many cigars on my part no doubt!
> 
> ...




Bump.
Jeff


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## Treepedo (Jul 15, 2012)

This is very exciting!
It will be a welcome tool to all on rope!
Thanks for your courage!:msp_thumbsup:


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## jefflovstrom (Jul 15, 2012)

treepedo said:


> this is very exciting!
> It will be a welcome tool to all on rope!
> Thanks for your courage!:msp_thumbsup:



lol!


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