# do you prefer leg loops or butt strap saddles?



## voxac30dude (Nov 6, 2009)

just curious as to what you guys use out there in the vast world of tree care. i only know what guys in hawaii are using so, what do you prefer?


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## pdqdl (Nov 6, 2009)

I started climbing on an old rope & leather pad rig that had individual leg straps; it was called a "nut-cracker" by the folks that sold it to me. I always liked it best for security and balance. Padding wasn't too good...new ones are probably much better.

Then I went to a butt-strap with retainer straps that held you in. That's ok too, and has much less tendency to cut off the circulation to my legs. I have used a couple of saddles that don't have the retainer straps, and I can't stand the lack of security. Look around, and you will find references to people wearing those under their armpits while being rescued out of a tree.


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## treesquirrel (Nov 6, 2009)

Seat harness for straight up take downs and leg loops for trimming of widely spread crowns requiring lots of lateral moving around.


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## NCTREE (Nov 6, 2009)

treesquirrel said:


> Seat harness for straight up take downs and leg loops for trimming of widely spread crowns requiring lots of lateral moving around.



:agree2: if you're gonna be sitting alot with spikes on for takedowns than the seat straps are the way to go. If you're gonna be doing alot of limb walking and running around in the tree then the leg straps are the way to go. I have a saddle for each. If you're on a tight budget I would go with the seat saddle first.


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## voxac30dude (Nov 6, 2009)

i cant decide between this one and






this one


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## Blakesmaster (Nov 6, 2009)

I've owned the top one pictured for about 6 mos and like it just fine. It can be a bit of a nut pincher but fairly comfortable overall. I haven't run any of the fancy new saddles yet though as a comparison. The second one pictured I had looked over too but I really wanted the independent leg straps. They're not as comfy if you're hanging from your line for extended periods but way better for overall movement in the canopy.


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## voxac30dude (Nov 6, 2009)

thats where i need help choosing. we dont have alot of vertical tree's here in hawaii there alot of canopy type trees like monkypods and wattle. i am afriad of crabbing and thats the only thing keeping me from getting the 2 one. i want freedom of movement for pruning work. but we also have eucalyptus trees here which as you know have long trunks. i keep comming back to the leg loops. as far as nut crunching goes, when i first started climbing i used to make rope harnesses. talk about nut crunching. i have balls made of steel now. hahaha. 

anyway i think the leg loops are gonna work for me becuase i mostly climb SRT here. i find it easier for the tree's we have on maui.


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## PurdueJoe (Nov 7, 2009)

It's leg straps for me. I started in one old school weavers with just the butt strap and wasn't a fan at all. Word about "pinching" a buddy that started climbing a year after I did had a leg strap slip and he ended up having on of his testicles removed so it can happen.


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## tomtrees58 (Nov 7, 2009)

PurdueJoe said:


> It's leg straps for me. I started in one old school weavers with just the butt strap and wasn't a fan at all. Word about "pinching" a buddy that started climbing a year after I did had a leg strap slip and he ended up having on of his testicles removed so it can happen.


thats me to stringer/ brooks/ blair tom trees


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## Blakesmaster (Nov 7, 2009)

If you climb mostly srt get the first one pictured. Just so you know there is no way to crab in either of those saddles.


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## fishercat (Nov 7, 2009)

*i started out with the top saddle in the pic.*

it was absolutely miserable.the next Buckingham was the Versatile with the seat and it was much better but it was the basic and i hated the bridge.i now climb on a Butterfly and the leg straps don't bother me at all but the bridge still sucks.i still may buy the seat and make it a Dragonfly but i am starting to think i should just put the $140 towards a saddle with a seat.the key to leg straps is how much padding the have and how far they go around your leg.


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## voxac30dude (Nov 8, 2009)

ok i think im pretty decided on the leg loops. i feel safer when climbing srt. i dont like to drt unless i have to. i just dont like the feeling of slipping outta my saddle during an accent. anything is better then my old rock climbing harness i have been using.


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## Bermie (Nov 8, 2009)

I wouldn't get either of those, find a leg strap harness with WIDE and well padded leg straps otherwise you'll lose your legs...well not liteally but think of circulation problems if you're hanging in it for a long time. I use the european style harnesses, B'fly or Edelrid...also the adjustments are more finite, not limited to a buckle...


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## tree md (Nov 8, 2009)

I started out on a Weaver with a butt strap and used that style for many years. I have had Buckingham saddles too as well as a leg loop saddle. I had an employer buy me a leg loop saddle with floating D back in the late 90's and I hated it. I was doing almost all takedowns back then and riding the ball on the crane nearly everyday. The leg loop saddle was the most uncomfortable saddle I had ever worn. I wore it a week and gave it back to my employer; told him he could keep it. I went back to my personal saddle with a butt strap. I now own a Petzl Mini Boss with a stiff batten seat. Most comfortable saddle I have owned. I keep hearing people say that the leg loops help them to move through the tree better but I tend to work more efficiently when I am more comfortable. That means seat strap for me. Never had a problem with it slowing me down in a tree. Maybe because that is what I have grown accustomed too.


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## Blakesmaster (Nov 8, 2009)

tree md said:


> Maybe because that is what I have grown accustomed too.



Probably has a lot to do with it. I'd only been in the saddle a few years till I picked up a leg loop version with a floating D. IMO, any type of lateral movement on your rope is so much easier if you can spread your legs apart while still hanging on your rope. The floating D is a life saver when limb walking because it allows your line to hang at your side instead of dead center but a lot of guys don't dig 'em. I don't quite understand why but to each his own, I s'pose.


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## BlackenedTimber (Nov 8, 2009)

voxac30dude said:


> i cant decide between this one and
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I am currently climbing in the top saddle. I like it just fine. The leg loops are the way to go for me. 

Naturally this saddle doesn't have all the bells and whistles and all the cool new stuff that alot of the other saddles on the market have, but this saddle is relatively cheap and plenty sturdy. I like the twin floating-dees on the bridge because it gives you a good amount of mobility in the tree and helps to keep my climbing line termination from interfering with my friction hitch.

I have been tempted lately, as I have more time on my hands now, which means more Tree work and less Power Transmission work, to get the new Buckingham Master saddle, but thus far I have not had a NEED for it. I think you would do fine in the top saddle pictured.


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## voxac30dude (Nov 10, 2009)

i realized that i will be doing some hanging from a line but for the most part the only hanging im doing is when im getting up in the tree and getting down. when i used to make swiss seat harnesses when i was younger i allways made leg loops. that just seams to be my go to choice. personally my body tells me im more secure when i have leg loops rather then a batten seat or a but strap. i personally think back support is where it's at though. having an extra wide back helps tremendously. for the $30 extra im totally buying the leg strap version.


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## Sunrise Guy (Nov 10, 2009)

I started with leg straps. I'd enter a tree as a bass and exit as a soprano. There was no way I could get comfortable. Then I went with a seat. What a difference! When adjusted properly, and I mean trial and error over a complete morning session, the seat is never in my way and I have just as much lateral movement capabilities as anyone using leg strap saddles. Also, I know someone posted about slipping through the seat. That's goofy. All seat harnesses that I've seen come with leg straps to keep that from happening. The straps do not have to be kept very tight, though, and that's the beauty of the system, for me. I have a Buckingham Traverse. http://www.buckinghammfg.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_ID=1629


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## Tree Machine (Nov 14, 2009)

I've gotta go with Sunrise. My very first saddle was a buttstrap, the next a legstrap. Next a bosun seat style with central tie-in, then a bosun style with floating bridge.

I was able to test-climb an Ergovation for a couple months, leg-strap + floating bridge.

My rock climbing / caving harness is leg-strap, central tie-in.


For the bulk of the guys out there who I'm sensing have never used a bosun-style saddle, it too has leg straps. However, instead of the forces being taken up primarily by the backs and sides of each of your thighs, and generally pulling up (since your weight is generally pulling down) and in (think 'triangle'), the leg straps on a bosun-style saddle simply keep the support from below in place, from sliding up your backside.

Since the title of the thread is 'leg-straps vs butt strap' I'll refrain from hijacking the thread to share the host of bosun advantages and the why's behind them.

If you're from the side who says bosun saddles limit movement in the tree, please cap it unless you actually have firsthand experience rather than a blind, uninformed opinion based on what you heard someone else say. This is one of the most wrongly assumed opinions that I know of in all of Arboriculture.


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## jomoco (Nov 14, 2009)

I thought everybody knew that the first arborist in the world was a sailor lookin for a mast pole.

jomoco


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## Tree Machine (Nov 14, 2009)

What made sense then still makes sense now. We've just strayed into other options and in doing so have lost track of the inherent advantages. Why that is, just following the lead of other aerial disciplines that don't do things the way we do. We've shifted more to saddles less comfortable (in _all_ positions, not just classic ventral) that pinch and squeeze. We've learned to tolerate and live with the discomfort.

Bosun seating, which was historically the way things were done, is now the red-headed bastard child of the arbo saddle family. Lost, but not forgotten.


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## jomoco (Nov 14, 2009)

I've designed a rather intricate saddle that allows you to stand up like a man to accomplish your work in the tree, or sit down and disconnect the leg rigging.

I designed it for working off a crane using a spreader bar. It requires very high top custom made climbing boots.

The USAF should pay me huge royalties for my design because it allows a parachuter to stand up and hit the ground running with full adequate blood flow in their legs, rather than hit the ground and breaking their legs because they're asleep!

Invention number 37 as I recall, circa 1995.

jomoco


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## Tree Machine (Nov 14, 2009)

Coolness.


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## Tree Machine (Nov 14, 2009)

jomoco said:


> The USAF should pay me huge royalties for my design
> 
> Invention number 37 as I recall, circa 1995.
> 
> jomoco





I second that. You did the work for others' benefit. You deserve due credit and a fair dollar arrangement.


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## tree md (Nov 14, 2009)

Tree Machine said:


> I've gotta go with Sunrise. My very first saddle was a buttstrap, the next a legstrap. Next a bosun seat style with central tie-in, then a bosun style with floating bridge.
> 
> I was able to test-climb an Ergovation for a couple months, leg-strap + floating bridge.
> 
> ...



I couldn't agree with you more. Anyone who thinks a bosun seat limits mobility has either never tried one or didn't have it adjusted right.


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## tree md (Nov 14, 2009)

Sunrise Guy said:


> I started with leg straps. I'd enter a tree as a bass and exit as a soprano. There was no way I could get comfortable. Then I went with a seat. What a difference! When adjusted properly, and I mean trial and error over a complete morning session, the seat is never in my way and I have just as much lateral movement capabilities as anyone using leg strap saddles. *Also, I know someone posted about slipping through the seat. That's goofy. All seat harnesses that I've seen come with leg straps to keep that from happening.* The straps do not have to be kept very tight, though, and that's the beauty of the system, for me. I have a Buckingham Traverse. http://www.buckinghammfg.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_ID=1629



Back when I started climbing in 91 tree saddles came without straps. I know the Weaver had no straps and I believe the Buckingham came without them as well. It was a year or two after I started climbing that straps became standard issue. I used to cut them off of a saddle first thing when I bought it until I got used to the restrictive legstraps.


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## Blakesmaster (Nov 14, 2009)

Tree Machine said:


> Since the title of the thread is 'leg-straps vs butt strap' I'll refrain from hijacking the thread to share the host of bosun advantages and the why's behind them.
> 
> If you're from the side who says bosun saddles limit movement in the tree, please cap it unless you actually have firsthand experience rather than a blind, uninformed opinion based on what you heard someone else say. This is one of the most wrongly assumed opinions that I know of in all of Arboriculture.



I don't think anyone on this thread was bashing bosun saddles, just the butt strap ones, which do, IMO, seriously limit mobility in the tree. Personally, I'd like to try a bosun seat someday, they really look comfy.


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## MonkeyMan_812 (Nov 14, 2009)

Pinnacle deluxe for me. Very comfy saddle but a little on the pricy side. Worth every penny.


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## MonkeyMan_812 (Nov 14, 2009)

Blakesmaster said:


> I don't think anyone on this thread was bashing bosun saddles, just the butt strap ones, which do, IMO, seriously limit mobility in the tree. Personally, I'd like to try a bosun seat someday, they really look comfy.



You should try them they are very comfortable.


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## Tree Machine (Nov 15, 2009)

Pinnacle Delux. The 'Delux' is the quick-connect buckles, very worthwhile. In fact, I consider quick-connect highly essential. I mean, we make our livings in these harnesses so we're in and out of them a lot. Fast-on, fast-off is absolutely what the Pinnnacle Delux provides as one of the advantages.

Delux also means wide straps on the backside, fat seatbelt-width webbing. Not bikini strap thin and NOT ELASTIC bungee.






.


Monkeyman, do you connect your front rings together with spreader snaps or with a single caribiner?


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## MonkeyMan_812 (Nov 15, 2009)

I use two carabiners. I am going to get a spreader snap though.


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## Tree Machine (Nov 15, 2009)

*spreader snap*

I had the earlier version of the Pinnacle, not the one shown here, but with a feed-thru, feed back friction buckle on the front waist strap. It was secure, but only would loosen to maximum loosenness, but not open up fully like the tongue-style buckle. This meant having to always step into it and pull it up and around you before cinching it down. An annoyance at most, but the tongue buckle is faster and easier. I still use this same saddle as my vacation work harness and when I got it, probably a decade ago, I was apparently a tad smaller. I bought a spreader snap to connect the front rings and it was a quick fix to making the saddle a bit 'bigger'.

The spreader snap is a chunky, heavy piece. Be forewarned. Get one only if it is truly needed.

Day one of owning this Pinnacle saddle, I sat down for a while and using a sewing awl and industrial thread I replaced the thin back straps with wide belting and just got rid of the adjustableness of the back straps. I've found that although my weight has changed, the position of where the butt-board needs to be has not. Also, I replaced the crap buckles with quick-connects. Back then there weren't the cool ISC metal quick connect buckles. Actually, back then there were NO quick connects, so I put in extra heavy-duty plastic buckles, the type that are used to hold scuba tanks in place.

Then I nagged saddle manufacturers for years because this is such a critical and necessary feature. I also nagged for wider back straps.

I'm sure some of you hear 'plastic buckles' and want to scream out against that, but on a well-designed bosun-style saddle, there is rarely any pressure on the leg straps at all, and thus no squeezing, squinching, pinching, pulling or pressure in the inner thigh, lower nadadoidal area. And thus no strain on the buckles themselves. Again, leg straps in this style saddle don't support your weight. You could probably get by just fine with velcro (but don't). The seat beneath supports your weight and the leg straps keep the board positioned where it should be, doing what it should do which is to support your weight from underneath in a distributed manner.

I did this Fastec buckle mod to my next saddle also, again another bosun-style (Versatile) and the buckles still to this day have never have failed. I always enjoyed the advantage of dropping harn, one hand on each of the buckles, squeeze, done. Now that they have nice metal quick-connects I can move out of the plastic era with my next saddle choice. 

I'm on Petzl's case now because they're employing a hook-style quick-connect buckle that is anything but quick. They're putting this on their new, upcoming Swing saddle, a bosun version of the Sequoia. I'm begging them to rethink this. Needing two hands and four distinct and separate motions just to release ONE of the two leg buckles..... That's definitely taking a step backwards in my opinion. This is their first true bosun saddle and they're approaching the legstrap issue with a level of bomproofness that spills into the realm of a safety feature that is 'so safe that it is now utterly inconvenient." 

I don't cherish the thought of having to take a world-class saddle and having to modify it to be a truly world-class saddle. For 450 bills, I really just want a saddle that works the way it should work. I don't want to fight with it every time I gotta put it on or take it off.


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## jomoco (Nov 15, 2009)

What gives with the stupid little D rings on saddles these days TM?

jomoco


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## tree md (Nov 15, 2009)

Yes, I wish you would get on their case about the small D's as well. I'm using the Mini Boss now with a bosun seat and it is great once you get it adjusted to where it needs to be. However, the straps loosen up and slip through the friction buckles after a little while of climbing. I am working on a way to get them permanently in place. I might have to invest in a sewing awl and some industrial thread myself. I can deal with the smaller straps and the inconvenience of having to step through this saddle but I would really like to see them start putting large D's on their saddles.


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## Tree Machine (Nov 15, 2009)

I don't know. I like them bigger, too. We put more than one thing on there, like biner slings, for momentary convenience. You don't always want to have them on the gear loops around the side or back. Sometimes they need to be _right there_.

The smaller rings don't allow the fitting in of an additional accessory connector either, as the tolerances are too tight. I have a very strong preference of where and how my chainsaw is attached and hung, or stowed on the hip. With smaller D's this preference gets wiped out and I have to go back to something I already know does not work as well because I've been there-done that already. Now I'll be accommodating my saddle instead of my saddle accommodating me.

Hey treeMD, here's a link for the Sewing Awl. You'll find that it is a pretty minor investment. They now offer numerous colors of thread, get the waxed type, the heaviest stuff they offer. A small thimble spool of this stuff goes a long way.


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## tree md (Nov 15, 2009)

Tree Machine said:


> I don't know. I like them bigger, too. We put more than one thing on there, like biner slings, for momentary convenience. You don't always want to have them on the gear loops around the side or back. Sometimes they need to be _right there_.
> 
> The smaller rings don't allow the fitting in of an additional accessory connector either, as the tolerances are too tight. I have a very strong preference of where and how my chainsaw is attached and hung, or stowed on the hip. With smaller D's this preference gets wiped out and I have to go back to something I already know does not work as well because I've been there-done that already. Now I'll be accommodating my saddle instead of my saddle accommodating me.
> 
> Hey treeMD, here's a link for the Sewing Awl. You'll find that it is a pretty minor investment. They now offer numerous colors of thread, get the waxed type, the heaviest stuff they offer. A small thimble spool of this stuff goes a long way.



Thanks! I'm going to order one today!


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## jomoco (Nov 15, 2009)

I think one of the the most ignored wear factors that tears the heck out of you, your ropes, boots, pants and everything it contacts, is your climbsaw's bar and chain in all it's razor sharp glory!

A quick connect between your saw's power head, and bar and chain assembly, would allow you to sheathe a 14 inch bar and chain in your leg scabbard? Perhaps even your choice of 3 bar and chain lengths in one leg scabbard?

Hello!

Do stihl and husky really care about safety in the tree, wear and tear on vital life supporting ropes?

How many more expensive sets of wesco boots and climbing pants must die the death of a thousand lashes before reason prevails?

jomoco


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## Tree Machine (Nov 15, 2009)

Back in 2005 I was asking Petzl to incorporate larger D's. I sent them this digitally modded version of their miniboss that incorporates the Petzl Pirhana 8's as the D's. I much prefer steel rings, though, not aluminum.







When I had a fixed-end flipline, I made the right-side ring 'bigger' (so to speak). This allowed optional placement of other kit, as well as the attachment of the flipline. The other option is to use a stainless steel clevis connector to take up as minimal space as possible, keeping what little room's left as available as possible.






Right now I'm running with a dual-ended flipline, so with the safety snap on each end, there's no need for the delta anymore for attachment, but the snap hogs up most of the space on the ring. he price to pay for being able to unclip either end of the positioning lanyard.

Don't give me a hard time about the chainsaw lanyard in this 2nd pic. The image is 7 years old, it was prototype gear, not currently using that, it's long gone. I'm getting by with something far less functional, a simple length of strap with a modded twistlock William.


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## tree md (Nov 15, 2009)

Ha, love the Pirhanas! Great idea!


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## Tree Machine (Nov 15, 2009)

You guys have me going through all these old images.
This is the Fastec mod. I remember sending this to Petzl in 2005 saying please, please, please consider quick-disconnect buckles on your next saddles. I wasn't implying plastic, just rather the convenience and performance and advantage that can be realized with the approach.

Now, all the delux, pro-version saddles have the sweet ISC buckles, but Petzl went and created their OWN VERSION of quick connects, which I will accurately refer to as *S*till *H*arder *I*n *T*ruth.

If you're gonna incorporate quick-connect buckles, they really ought to be 'quick', otherwise, why even go there?

(I must apologize, guys.... Petzl wants to make a a couple big mistakes on their upcoming Swing saddle and it's got my undies in a bunch, almost literally)







Both of these are images I sent Petzl years ago, also.... "Please, please, please," I said, the wide strapping is much better support than the thin bikini straps..., really, there is no WEIGHT DIFFERENCE but a perceptable performance difference".

In this image, as part of the modification, I set it up so the straps going onto the bosun seat are adjustable left-to-right, but not adjustable lengthwise. This is because, once you find that sweetspot you will probably not have a need to adjust it much, if ever. I did the left-right adjustment because it was so easy to incorporate and because you don't really know if something can be an advantage unless you flat-out try it.







Here are the home-modded, hand-awled wide back straps. Petzl wants to put thin, bungee-style straps. This allows the seat to move all over and shift. One side can move widely different than the other. They're thinking this will be good. Uh, yea-NO. The seat really needs to stay securely positioned where it logically needs to be. There's no reason I can think of to have the seat anywhere but behind you and under your butt, _no matter what position you're in_. To have it stretchy and shiftable, I tried it out on the Sequoia Swing saddle, again and again and again, making it shift, trying to find SOME sort of performance advantage. I say formally, and in public," Petzl, please take the advice from TREECARE PROFESSIONALS who spend hours every day in these harnesses, don't incorporate limitations into the saddles you sell us. Step up and give us something great. Make it absolutely outstanding, it's easy to do..... just listen to us.


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## Tree Machine (Nov 15, 2009)

tree md said:


> Ha, love the Pirhanas! Great idea!


Better would be their small rigging plate, the PAW, on each side to act as the bridge attachment, and accessory connection.....
kinda like what is CURRENTLY on the Ergovation saddle or the TreeMotion and that which is the bomb, and _what guys are reporting they like_.

(Wink, wink, nudge Petzl)


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## tree md (Nov 15, 2009)

Yes, that would be nice. I have once again adjusted my bosun seat to exactly where it needs to be. When I get it in the sweet spot it is the most comfortable saddle I have owned. The straps just keep slipping causing me to have to readjust it. Hence the sowing awl thought. 

A few minor improvements and Petz could knock one out of the park...


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## alinicoll (Nov 15, 2009)

Leg loops. Freedom of movement


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## Tree Machine (Nov 15, 2009)

I'm just afraid they're going to put out a mediocre attempt, and I'm gonna buy it anyway, #####ing and moaning while I basically rebuild their saddle to MAKE IT WHAT IT SHOULD BE.

Pardon my apparent attitude, but months before the commercial release is the time to be incorporating and testing these ideas, at least entertaining the ideas by TRYING them.

I just want the best for the gear makers who are making the gear for us, we the professionals who BUY IT.

Do you think this is asking too much, a comfortable, performance saddle with a few nice features?


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## tree md (Nov 15, 2009)

Tree Machine said:


> Better would be their small rigging plate, the PAW, on each side to act as the bridge attachment, and accessory connection.....
> kinda like what is CURRENTLY on the Ergovation saddle or the TreeMotion and that which is the bomb, and _what guys are reporting they like_.
> 
> (Wink, wink, nudge Petzl)



Yep, looks cool. I actually made a rope bridge for mine out of safety blue.


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## Tree Machine (Nov 15, 2009)

Blakesmaster said:


> I don't think anyone on this thread was bashing bosun saddles





alinicoll said:



> Leg loops. Freedom of movement



There's one right there, as predicted.

Stated as if to imply the freedom of movement is better somehow than a bosun style saddle.

Freedom of movement is not a benefit. It's a REQUIREMENT.
Freedom of movement comes more from the floating bridge feature so you're not limited to what a single, central ventral attachment can offer.

Solid seat saddles do not, in any way, limit your freedom of movement. I open the floor to anyone who can give us a plausible reason as to why they assume this to be so. Go, it's all yours.


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## Tree Machine (Nov 15, 2009)

Having my nuts pinched limits my freedom of movement. If I have them removed, I might prefer seatless leg straps again.


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## limbwalker54 (Nov 15, 2009)

I climb on a Blair Ultralight by Sierra Moreno, wonderful ease of movement, two floating D rings and plenty of supportive backpad. Plus the whole thing can come apart for a rebuild if you wear out the backpad....its great.
Check it out


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## oldirty (Nov 15, 2009)

the pinnacle was my first saddle.

i am now on the miniboss.

hey treemd. duct tape baby. havent had a slip of the strapping since i put it on. everything in its place and staying put.

go to that thread with the treehouse in it and you can see what i did to that saddle.

you dont like stepping into that saddle? i love it. so fast and easy. quick cinch and she's ready to go.


good to see you posting TM.


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## tree md (Nov 15, 2009)

oldirty said:


> the pinnacle was my first saddle.
> 
> i am now on the miniboss.
> 
> ...



OD, I looked for that thread a few days ago and couldn't find it. The search brings up a bunch of thee house threads but I can't seem to find the one your talking about.


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## oldirty (Nov 15, 2009)

tree md said:


> OD, I looked for that thread a few days ago and couldn't find it. The search brings up a bunch of thee house threads but I can't seem to find the one your talking about.



just bumped that thread for you.


"one of the latest victims" is the thread title. its in the commercial climbing section.


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## tree md (Nov 15, 2009)

Gotcha OD.

That saddle is the balls when you get it setup and customized! I love mine. I can deal with the small headaches as long as I am comfy in the tree on long climbs. I just need to get the straps stationary and I will be good to go. As far as the step through, I have never been a fan of those saddles. I am getting accustomed to it though. I like TM's idea about quick connects for that. Like I said, I can live with it. The benefits far outweigh the minor inconveniences of this saddle. Just takes a little getting used to after climbing in a different type of saddle for so many years.


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## oldirty (Nov 15, 2009)

yeah. they totally blew it discontinuing that saddle. anyone who liked the pinnacle would looooove the miniboss.


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## voxac30dude (Nov 15, 2009)

so is the petzl sequoia the holy grail of leg loop saddles?


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## D Mc (Nov 15, 2009)

The Sequoia is a very nice saddle. Well-designed and simple to operate. My old and less-than-nimble fingers have no trouble operating the quick release latches. 

Is it the Holy Grail of saddles? Far from it. Saddle fit and function goes hand in hand with body type and climbing style. What works for one will be pure misery for another. 

To promote one saddle as being the best cannot be done, except for the lone individual's situation. 

Articulating leg strap saddles were designed to follow the body movement. So when properly set, no readjustment is necessary. The bosum seat does not hinder body movement, but does not follow body movement either. Depending on your climbing style, this may or may not be significant. 

Like I have said, different strokes...

Dave


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## Greenstar (Nov 15, 2009)

voxac30dude said:


> thats where i need help choosing. we dont have alot of vertical tree's here in hawaii there alot of canopy type trees like monkypods and wattle. i am afriad of crabbing and thats the only thing keeping me from getting the 2 one. i want freedom of movement for pruning work. but we also have eucalyptus trees here which as you know have long trunks. i keep comming back to the leg loops. as far as nut crunching goes, when i first started climbing i used to make rope harnesses. talk about nut crunching. i have balls made of steel now. hahaha.
> 
> anyway i think the leg loops are gonna work for me becuase i mostly climb SRT here. i find it easier for the tree's we have on maui.



Hey voxac, How are the trees out there?? Big trees? Is there a lot of pruning to do? A lot of overgrown trees?
Just curious how it is in a more tropical region like Hawaii.


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## Greenstar (Nov 15, 2009)

You all are leaving out one of the most important details..
Voxac, There is a big difference between the second harness you have pictured with the single butt strap, AND harnesses with the stiff butt seat! 
These are awesome because they are comfortable when sitting, yet also easy to move in, climb laterally, stretch your legs out laterally and make moves while you are sitting, etc.. Dont waste your money on the second harness, buy one for a hundred dollars more with the stiff butt bench seat so you can move in it!

If you are thinking about one with the individual leg straps, the style I'll add that Rip Tomkins a former international tree climbing champion prefers, then I'd probably go with one with more comfortable padded leg straps.

Peace


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## voxac30dude (Nov 16, 2009)

Greenstar said:


> Hey voxac, How are the trees out there?? Big trees? Is there a lot of pruning to do? A lot of overgrown trees?
> Just curious how it is in a more tropical region like Hawaii.



we have alot of conifers and eucalyptus tree's above 2'000 feet but for the most part there is lots of thorny keave tree's, huge monkey pods, mango's, a variety of palms, ironwoods, Norfolk pines and wattle tree's. 
there is lots of business here. alot of people want tree's pruned to keep property value and lots of work from rel estate companies that have houses on the marked and want to keep the value pf the property. we also do condo's and hotels who want pruning work so thier tree's look nice.


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## Greenstar (Nov 16, 2009)

Nice, thats cool. So a lot of hedge trimming and shearing bushes, and lots of smaller trees..
The weather is great huh!
Prune in the morning, and go surf in the afternoon!! 

Are there quality enough waves to ride all over the place, not just the big spots?


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## GlennG (Nov 17, 2009)

Leg straps for pruning and butt straps for big removals. Leg straps frame out your package and make you look hot to the homeowner and also give you freedom of movement but a butt strap is more comfy when resting and blocking down big wood from a big removal. For some reason I do a lot of large pruning with leg strap saddles and my nuts hurt all day. Think I should buy a butt saddle and give `em a break.


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## voxac30dude (Nov 17, 2009)

Greenstar said:


> Nice, thats cool. So a lot of hedge trimming and shearing bushes, and lots of smaller trees..
> The weather is great huh!
> Prune in the morning, and go surf in the afternoon!!
> 
> Are there quality enough waves to ride all over the place, not just the big spots?



lots and lots of surf. pretty much a good surf spot everywhere on the north and east facing shores. i had my 6.0 fish tail board in the back of my tuck once and the homeowner asked me do i surf? im thinkin in my head this guy is dumb aparently he see's the surf board. so i say yeah, arborist surfing. he thought it is an actual sport. haha


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## bruce6670 (Nov 17, 2009)

Hey Voxac,have you ever surfed Jaws.


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