# trying too start logging



## dusty_v141 (Dec 13, 2010)

hey guys i have a few questions that i hope yaw can anwser.
i njust started this tree service but i like to do logging too.
i have a gmc dually, 7000lbs 16' trailer and a 1973 ford 2000 tractor.
i can too alot with this little tractor its just slow on bigger logs. 
my question is how do you guys get your tracts of timber too log; do yaw buy the land , log it then sell the land or get leases or what. is there a site you can go too with land owners wanting timber cut. if i can get one good stand of timber i know i can get a backhoe or a tractor with a front end loader. im alos going too try and get a goose neck trailer around 14000lbs or 20000lbs about 30' long. i know you probaly think im crazy but you have too start somewhere and im not trying too go into logging full time as of yet, but i hope too eventually. thanks for yaws help and i love this website its awesome. it needs more felling and logging pic though lol


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## Oldtimer (Dec 13, 2010)

Yaw first want to buy a big stand of really good quality wood for a really good price.
Yaw want to buy a skidder second.
Yaw wanna find a trucker that you can trust third.
Yaw wanna cut timber all day, and half the night fourth.
Yaw wanna forget about getting rich the first few years.


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## dusty_v141 (Dec 13, 2010)

lol thanks Oldtimer. i can mov some lumber right now but not alot. enough for me too start and save some money too buy bigger equipment. but everything i have right now is paid for so that helps. my biggest problem is how do you find the tracts of timber so you can buy them. thanks again.


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## forestryworks (Dec 13, 2010)

I'd try and get some of the private landowner jobs. Start small and work your way up. Might even try some of the salvage jobs - do ya'll have any pine beetle problems down there?

Good luck.


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## dusty_v141 (Dec 13, 2010)

ya we have had pine beetles alot but thing im finding the most thats hurting the trees is carpenter ants. they are in hardwood as well as softwoods.


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## ryan_marine (Dec 13, 2010)

I am like you. I am a small outfit and use a tractor to skid out logs. Yes it is slow but it gets the job done. Up here I get alot of jobs from farmers that have desent timber in their fence rows or property lines. That is the easiest way for me to get jobs. Just remeber to keep the land owner as happy as possible and you will not run out of work.

Ray


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## Oldtimer (Dec 13, 2010)

Here's how I get wood.

I find it, find out who owns it, call them, buy it, then cut it.

It helps to know what yaw talking about when dealing with landowners, and only some years of doing it will learn yaw that.
Some guys have the knack for buying timber (It's actually sales, you sell yourself!) and some do not.


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## joesawer (Dec 13, 2010)

Your best bet is to find small lots for free. 
Where is Henegar? 
My dad has a mill in Alabama and I have worked there a lot.
You have to find a niche and a market. Right now logs and even pulp wood can be hard to sell.
You wont compete on timber sales that depend on volume. Those guys have mechanized logging down to a fine art and work on a tiny margin. A lot of loggers are putting wood on the truck for $12 to $15 per ton.


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## dusty_v141 (Dec 13, 2010)

Henagar is twenty minutes from Ft. Payne and Scottsboro both; and i can be in either huntsville,al or chattanooga,tn in about an hour. 

So what your sayin oldtimer is "yaw" lol, drive around and look for timber that looks good and just call and ask if you can log it?

right now i can get $25 per ton of pine pulp
$34 per ton of pine grade 
and red oak is going for $600 per 1000 board feet

im going too look at a tract of timber up in Tn in the morning so wish me luck. do i ned any kind of permits or anything too log timber and if what are they and where can i get them.

thanks for all the help again


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## stihl 440 (Dec 13, 2010)

forestryworks said:


> I'd try and get some of the private landowner jobs. Start small and work your way up. Might even try some of the salvage jobs - do ya'll have any pine beetle problems down there?
> 
> Good luck.



X2 totally agree 100%


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## hammerlogging (Dec 13, 2010)

you wil need very small tracts because skids over 1000' will kill your production. But thats a good niche for you since most loggers can't move in on the small 5-20 acre gigs. You might sell pulp to a concentration yard but not to a mill without whatever SFI cert your state has (i.e. ?TN master logger) and a big insurance policy. But sawlogs you'll be fine, sawmills operate differently than the big pulp mills, and thats good cause thats all your system could make a profit on anyhow.

Offer to cut on shares, pretty common for a small outfit, 50/50 or 60/40- you get the 60.

Be good to the woods. Word of mouth will be everything to your future.


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## forestryworks (Dec 13, 2010)

hammerlogging said:


> Be good to the woods. Word of mouth will be everything to your future.



Highly agree.


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## stihl 440 (Dec 14, 2010)

forestryworks said:


> Highly agree.



X3 yes...a well done job always gets more work


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## dusty_v141 (Dec 14, 2010)

well i have insureance so thats not a problem the tract im looking at tomorrow is 20 acers so its not really big. 

as far as the good job part i always try too do the best job i can with what i have too work with, i hate arguements so im really laied back and easy too get along with. 

Maybe ill make; the only thing i can do is try lol.


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## 056 kid (Dec 14, 2010)

20 acres eh? sounds like progress!!


Dont be too easy going, or they will walk all over ya. .

And the last one is a given, but try not to break ####t, its real easy and it will put an end to your aspirations in a hurry!


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## dusty_v141 (Dec 14, 2010)

thanks for all the help guys!!! this tract is a couple of hours away from home and i didnt know if i should worry about it or not. but i was talking too my dad and i told him if its not worth it then o well but what if it is and i dont go look at it. 

056 kid there is a fine line between being too easy going and not. i think you have too set a point were you have had enough and when someone gets too that point it time too take care of the situation.

i hope everybody stay safe out there and thanks again.


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## clinchscavalry (Dec 14, 2010)

Here in middle GA most of our loggers are production oriented, fairly big outfits that must move a good deal of wood to stay in business. I have been shown quite a few jobs that were just too small to justify moving a normal sized logger on. I would suggest that you contact local loggers and timber buyers first and tell them you're interested in these small jobs. You might end up with more work than you can do. Let them do the legwork finding these tracts, and it could help them "save face" with the irate landowners who don't understand why they can't move a million dollar logging crew onto a two acre patch. 

However, you might have trouble actually selling the wood to a mill yourself. Around here, the big dealers are sometimes the only ones that can do business with certain mills. It is possible that a timber buyer, working for a dealer, will let you carry wood in on their tickets. Just a thought.


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## dusty_v141 (Dec 14, 2010)

thanks for the tip i never thought of that. i will get on the phone tomorrow!

I went and lookd at the tract of woods in tennesse and it was just too small of wood and not alot of it, mostly pulp wood and thats not bringing alot right now. 

thanks again for all the help


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## dusty_v141 (Dec 16, 2010)

hey guys looked at a good tract of hardwood today and im going too look at another tract tomorrow. 

how much do you pay the landowner for a good tract of hardwoods?
20-25% of the board foot value or what


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## 056 kid (Dec 17, 2010)

50 or 60. . .


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## forestryworks (Dec 17, 2010)

dusty_v141 said:


> hey guys looked at a good tract of hardwood today and im going too look at another tract tomorrow.
> 
> how much do you pay the landowner for a good tract of hardwoods?
> 20-25% of the board foot value or what





hammerlogging said:


> Offer to cut on shares, pretty common for a small outfit, 50/50 or 60/40- you get the 60.



What hammerlogging said...


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## joesawer (Dec 17, 2010)

dusty_v141 said:


> hey guys looked at a good tract of hardwood today and im going too look at another tract tomorrow.
> 
> how much do you pay the landowner for a good tract of hardwoods?
> 20-25% of the board foot value or what





The last tract of good timber I tried to buy in Alabama was in about 93.
It belonged to some very good friends and was mostly pine peeler logs. GP paid them more on the stump than they paid me at the mill. I went to the mill to talk to the big man who gave me my contract about it and he just shook his head and said he was sorry that is just the way it was.

Right now you need to check on tie log prices and specs in north Alabama. You will normally have a lot more tie logs than high grade logs and last winter they where paying pretty good.


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## 056 kid (Dec 17, 2010)

If a load of tie logs bring more than grade logs, I suggest that you wait things out. . . .

:Eye:


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## joesawer (Dec 17, 2010)

056 kid said:


> If a load of tie logs bring more than grade logs, I suggest that you wait things out. . . .
> 
> :Eye:




I am saying that there will be a lot more tie logs in a typical stand of hardwood in that part of the country.
You can sell them for grade logs but you don't want to. There is a big demand for tie logs right now and they are probably bringing a lot more than you think.


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## dusty_v141 (Dec 17, 2010)

thanks guys there is alot of grade logs on the tract i looked at today


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## 056 kid (Dec 17, 2010)

joesawer said:


> I am saying that there will be a lot more tie logs in a typical stand of hardwood in that part of the country.
> You can sell them for grade logs but you don't want to. There is a big demand for tie logs right now and they are probably bringing a lot more than you think.



At times, I cut alot more ties than anything else, but I never saw ties bring anything close to a good stack of veneers. That is what I am sayin. .

in the right timber, ties stack up quick!!


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## joesawer (Dec 17, 2010)

056 kid said:


> At times, I cut alot more ties than anything else, but I never saw ties bring anything close to a good stack of veneers. That is what I am sayin. .
> 
> in the right timber, ties stack up quick!!



There is not a lot of veneer in that part of the country. 
Almost any log can be a grade log but there are often many more low grade logs than high grade. Just a little tip, Check your tie log prices and specs and maximize your profit. 
Lacy McIntire is not far from you and has always been a great mill to do business with.


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## 056 kid (Dec 17, 2010)

As far as I know, Shenandoah Hardwoods & "Fitzgerald" have been the two major hardwood buyers here for a while. .

White & yellow pine along with good tight ring coffee Lord bless you if you can find a load and "wood" go to different places. Wood goes to Covington, Wesvaco. . The pine and coffee I dont even know. . .


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## dusty_v141 (Dec 17, 2010)

in my area i have 7or 8 different mills i can sell too. it just depends on who is paying what and how far away it is.


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## joesawer (Dec 17, 2010)

dusty_v141 said:


> in my area i have 7or 8 different mills i can sell too. it just depends on who is paying what and how far away it is.



I was posting to late last night.
Lacy McIntire is just south of Gadsden on 431 and always pays good and are great to work with.


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## dusty_v141 (Dec 18, 2010)

ok thanks guys im moving in on a track of timber in the morning that i looked at today. wish me luck


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## SAW (Dec 18, 2010)

dusty_v141 said:


> ok thanks guys im moving in on a track of timber in the morning that i looked at today. wish me luck



Good luck with it. Hows the timber look?


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## dusty_v141 (Dec 19, 2010)

it could be alot better but it could also be alot worse.
its mostly sall stuff but the guy wants it cut. there is alot of pulp wood on it. but we will see how it goes


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## porch monkey (Dec 20, 2010)

From a landowners perspective...

As long as you take care of the landowner and take care of his land you'll always have plenty of work to do. Word of mouth advertising among landowners...with the reputation taht you treat people and their property with respect...will get you a long way. It'll be up to you to see if you can figger out a way to make a profit by doing all that but never cheat anybody just to make money.

Good luck to you


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## dusty_v141 (Dec 20, 2010)

i cant stand a lier and a thief so i will never become one myself. when i told this land owner i would do the job im going too do it even though i way lose money


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## brownd (Dec 21, 2010)

First sell that worthless 2000. You can sell the 2000 for almost as much as a 4000 is worth. They will handle a loader better but still pretty light. I have both and the 2000 would scare me after using the 4000. The 2000 is very light. Just be careful! Am cutting tie logs now, that until I broke my ankle. That is another story.


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## dusty_v141 (Dec 21, 2010)

well my grandfather bought the 2000 brand new in 73' so it will not be sold. ill just save up enought too buy something else and take the 2000 back home too do what its been doing for the last 37 years lol.


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## JakeLamont (Dec 21, 2010)

*How's it going so far?*

I'm just starting out too. I found that the horse loggers forum has lots of discussion for small-scale one-man operation loggers. Only difference is I use a tractor and winch.


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