# new guy that wants to do things right



## itsagrind (Apr 16, 2011)

i am getting into this business because I like it, i have a good size budget to start with but want to do this right, if you had to start a new business, what equipment would you purchase?


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## ATH (Apr 16, 2011)

When you say "this business" what are you talking about? What do you want to focus on? Figure that out before even starting your shopping list.

If you don't know the answer, look around and ask yourself what market will be best served by what you bring to the table (YOU, not your equipment or money). Don't take this step lightly.

Tree service is a big world. Propigation, tree planting, plant health care, pruning, utility clearence, removals, stump grinding only, logging, firewood, topping and filling caveties with cement (just make sure you use rebar  ), etc. are all pretty different from each other. If you try to do it all out of the gate, you will probably not make it. If you decide what you can do best and do that, you can grow into the ability to offer a wider array of specialties.


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## Rftreeman (Apr 16, 2011)

what is a "good size budget"..............


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## pbtree (Apr 17, 2011)

itsagrind said:


> i am getting into this business because I like it, i have a good size budget to start with but want to do this right, if you had to start a new business, what equipment would you purchase?


 
You know, other than letting on that you have some loose money to spend, there is very little you give to work with. 

No concrete idea of what you want to do based upon your post, nor what if any experience you have. 

that said, there are plenty of helpful folks on this site that I am certain can give you some useful tips and ideas if you can provide a bit clearer framework about what you wish to do.


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## sgreanbeans (Apr 17, 2011)

Yes, better scope of what ya plan to do. You can go to SCORE and they will help in developing a business plan. Helps you cover ALL the bases. As posted above, there are many things to figure out before equipment. Some books would my first purchase. Then, the age old answer! and here it comes, go seek a mentor!,learn from him. That is based on the guess, that you don't know a whole lot, beings your asking about equipment. Take it slow and steady, baby steps. 
And yeah! what kinda budget ya talking? Good luck!


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## itsagrind (Apr 17, 2011)

*good advice*

so far feedback has been helpful: oops i should be more specific, I would really like to work the landing for Rygaard, but those guys are to slow for me and don't yell at Dave enough. my focus to start with is stump grinding, trimming and removal of smaller trees 14-16 inches in diameter or less, I bring big muscles and bow saw :msp_biggrin: I have been in sales for 15+ years in the construction business, I currently own a remodeling company, mainly my own houses that I would flip and I have several rental properties, the rentals have become self managed, and am happy with the number of units I currently own, grew up on a farm and have been running a chainsaw cutting down trees since I was 10, the old man didn't believe in being a kid, (the jerk) anyway, so I currently have 4 removal jobs, trees are less than 14 inches in diameter, the stump removal, have some stump removal jobs and some lot clearing to do. I am studying to become certified. at this point I have a chainsaw to start wrecking things with. my budget well lets say $50,000.00 to start with. yey I know thats a stump grinder if your talking all new, which I would not buy starting out, not interested in debt either. I have been looking for a mentor and companies to work with but I keep getting the cold shoulder, which is fine, I will just keep plugging a way at it. I am not afraid of heights, i have climbed silos before and I don't have a saddle because I don't ride horses.  (JK I read a thread earlier about hiring tree climbers)


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## RacerX (Apr 17, 2011)

There are many things that you need to investigate and think about before you buy your first saddle. 

How hard is it to get liability insurance in your area if you have no tree business experience? 
Are there any state or local licensing requirements?
Do you plan on hiring any qualified tree workers to start? 
Do you have the time and energy to learn one of the most basic parts of the business, how to climb?
Do you have the time and energy to learn proper rigging techniques and safety procedures?

I like your enthusiasm, IMO you need to cover all of the bases, (only a few of which I've touched on) before you go and invest that hard earned $50,000.


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## itsagrind (Apr 17, 2011)

those are all good questions, I have plenty of time and am currently researching climbing equipment, I have 20 acres with some huge oak trees to practice with, insurance- I am covered , I am a one man crew looking for advice on the equipment.


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## GLOBOTREE (Apr 17, 2011)

I like this thread and the fact you are seking our opinions. My advice is to go slow NEWBIE. The Trees you will learn to approach everyday are all most likely older than you and deserve respect for their hard work and patience. So dont go off in a mad rush to start putting your life in danger or the ones you employ. Removals I have learned are a fact of life, but try to understand the true meaning of Arboriculture before spending that money on tools and related that will collect dust as you try to do everything according to the book we could write for you. In hindsight I wished I would have asked more questions here over the years pertaining to the difficult decisions, which could be found at the weirdest places. If you find a decision needs to be made just remember how long the Tree has stood in one place, surely it will not move during the decision making phase.


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## Bigus Termitius (Apr 17, 2011)

With axmen burning an image in the back of your mind and 50K burning a hole in your pocket, the sky's the limit.

Let's see.....

Let's figure 10-15k for a good used chipper.

5K for a used stumper.

10-15K for a Chip Truck.

10k for a skidsteer or loader

And the rest in saws, assorted gear and biz expenses.

Yeah, you could spent 50k by tomorrow afternoon. Good Luck!


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## itsagrind (Apr 17, 2011)

Bigus Termitius said:


> With axmen burning an image in the back of your mind and 50K burning a hole in your pocket, the sky's the limit.
> 
> Let's see.....
> 
> ...


 
what brands do you think are the best when it comes to used equipment? figure the previous owner maintained it perfectly. I will buy a self propelled stumper, considering a 2008 sc352 with a new diesel engine, 800 hours, all options and new teeth $15000.00


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## itsagrind (Apr 17, 2011)

sgreanbeans said:


> Yes, better scope of what ya plan to do. You can go to SCORE and they will help in developing a business plan. Helps you cover ALL the bases. As posted above, there are many things to figure out before equipment. Some books would my first purchase. Then, the age old answer! and here it comes, go seek a mentor!,learn from him. That is based on the guess, that you don't know a whole lot, beings your asking about equipment. Take it slow and steady, baby steps.
> And yeah! what kinda budget ya talking? Good luck!


 
as far as the mentor, I have been looking for a partner in my area, if anyone out there is looking for a partner in western Mpls, please respond other than actual tree care knowledge, I bring many other skills to the table.


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## Scrat (Apr 19, 2011)

itsagrind said:


> what brands do you think are the best when it comes to used equipment? figure the previous owner maintained it perfectly. I will buy a self propelled stumper, considering a 2008 sc352 with a new diesel engine, 800 hours, all options and new teeth $15000.00


 
Wow couldn't describe your business goals clearly and asked some leading questions....and blame detailed response on a specific chipper......hhhmmmmm:msp_rolleyes:


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## itsagrind (Apr 19, 2011)

*Wow*



Scrat said:


> Wow couldn't describe your business goals clearly and asked some leading questions....and blame detailed response on a specific chipper......hhhmmmmm:msp_rolleyes:


 
wow, I find it interesting that you offer nothing but ridicule and make fun of the new kid that wants to learn. :msp_unsure: I am just trying to get started and am looking for any assistance to make sure I am not a hack. Sorry if my grammar isn't perfect.


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## GLOBOTREE (Apr 19, 2011)

hey man chillin at Arboristsite will get you places in the Tree Care business. Dont worry about people razzin you for this and that, there will always be people tryin to give you a hard time no matter where you go. But here we have experience~ valuable experience, we have been where you are just startin out and personally... I would be very glad to help you progress by giving advice if you need it. Dont lose touch with members who can help...private messages can get you answers even if you are finding it difficult to hook up in real time. keep in touch newbie. 
Have some rep!


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## DangerTree (Apr 21, 2011)

itsagrind said:


> so far feedback has been helpful: oops i should be more specific, I would really like to work the landing for Rygaard, but those guys are to slow for me and don't yell at Dave enough. my focus to start with is stump grinding, trimming and removal of smaller trees 14-16 inches in diameter or less, I bring big muscles and bow saw :msp_biggrin: I have been in sales for 15+ years in the construction business, I currently own a remodeling company, mainly my own houses that I would flip and I have several rental properties, the rentals have become self managed, and am happy with the number of units I currently own, grew up on a farm and have been running a chainsaw cutting down trees since I was 10, the old man didn't believe in being a kid, (the jerk) anyway, so I currently have 4 removal jobs, trees are less than 14 inches in diameter, the stump removal, have some stump removal jobs and some lot clearing to do. I am studying to become certified. at this point I have a chainsaw to start wrecking things with. my budget well lets say $50,000.00 to start with. yey I know thats a stump grinder if your talking all new, which I would not buy starting out, not interested in debt either. I have been looking for a mentor and companies to work with but I keep getting the cold shoulder, which is fine, I will just keep plugging a way at it. I am not afraid of heights, i have climbed silos before and I don't have a saddle because I don't ride horses.  (JK I read a thread earlier about hiring tree climbers)


 
You don't need 50 G's to get started in tree work. Here is the list.

1. insurance
2. a truck preferably a 1 ton and well used, don't smash a good one!
3. PPE helmet, climbing boots, cutting pants etc.
4. saddle, nothing fancy just comphy
5. ropes, 7/8" bull 200', 2 climbing ropes, 1 utility
6. pulleys for all rope sizes and lots of locking carabiners, webbing -tubular for slings.
7. leg irons
8. saws 1 large 288ish, med. 357 and a small echo or Shindiawa , a telescopic pole saw will be helpful, Stihl makes a good one.
9. Big shot sling shot it works and saves a lot of time.
10. a site to dump branches given that you have not bought the chipper yet.
11. All ancillary equipment, saw files, chain, spare saw parts, tools this list goes on and on.
12. Rescue 8 times 2 on for you and one for the ground guy, you are going to have a ground guy right? Not having one makes life real hard.
13. Beraneck's book of general tree work will help answer stuff you may be unfamiliar with.
14. experience, you need good fundamentals on the ground before you start topping trees. You can't run from a bad cut when you are tied in.

That is the beginning of a shopping list of things that will be needed anyway. I missed some things that you will figure out as you progress. How far you want to take it after the basic stuff is up to you. Good luck


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## Scrat (Apr 21, 2011)

itsagrind said:


> wow, I find it interesting that you offer nothing but ridicule and make fun of the new kid that wants to learn. :msp_unsure: I am just trying to get started and am looking for any assistance to make sure I am not a hack. Sorry if my grammar isn't perfect.


 
Itsagrind
I apologize if you read my post as ridicule. I was merely writing in agreement with some of the earlier posts such as Racerx's where he indicates some of the more important business aspects vs the said equipment. Many times new guys get all focused on gear and that is great but a solid business plan, especially in today's economy, would serve to you better in building a business with a solid foundation. You were looking unclear in your approach and specific venue yet totally clear on make model size and used price of specialized equipment. i.e the stump grinder.....you wouldn't use that for pruning or planting. Again sorry if my post came off at all offensive and I should have taken the time to write my intended meaning with more clarity. I hope I can be of help in the future and welcome to AS.
Scrat


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## beastmaster (Apr 21, 2011)

You have good drive and a stake, but like a lot of others have said, you need a good buisness plan. I have been in this buisness as a top employee for many years. I have lots of experience, but when I decided to start a buisness of my own years ago, I got a real eye opener. I never worked so hard for so little that first year. It gave me a new respect for owner operators. Before I shut down I had an ulcer, was on the verge of a nervous breakdown and ended up losing my home and owing the IRS.
I am happy now helping others run their businesses in the field. Chipper truck blows up, I still get paid and go home, something get destroyed or if a job runs way over, I get paid and go home and get a good night sleep.
Not everyone can bid right, put in the non-stop hours(it seems)of maintenance and book keeping, working all day and then bidding jobs after work or before.
My point being there is a lot more to running a tree service then climbing and counting your money. My hats off to all you owner operators, and good luck isagrind. Beastmaster


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## lxt (Apr 21, 2011)

From what I have read this thread makes me laugh & then thinking it to be serious.....just gives me gas!!

1st- muscles & a bow saw  you have done sales & climbed silos...... x 1000

refer to thread titled "where do they come from"

WOW!!!!

LXT......................funny no ones afraid of heights till you put em up there :msp_rolleyes:


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## jefflovstrom (Apr 21, 2011)

lxt said:


> From what I have read this thread makes me laugh & then thinking it to be serious.....just gives me gas!!
> 
> 1st- muscles & a bow saw  you have done sales & climbed silos...... x 1000
> 
> ...


 
Yeah, but I am in a mellow mood so I am seeing what ya'll are saying before I jump in.
Jeff :msp_tongue:


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## lxt (Apr 21, 2011)

jefflovstrom said:


> Yeah, but I am in a mellow mood so I am seeing what ya'll are saying before I jump in.
> Jeff :msp_tongue:


 


Jeff....................when are you ever mellow? lol, I give it a few more posts before you let em have it!!! 


LXT..............


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## jefflovstrom (Apr 21, 2011)

lxt said:


> Jeff....................when are you ever mellow? lol, I give it a few more posts before you let em have it!!!
> 
> 
> LXT..............


 
Love all your post's in any forum, LXT!----what a rush! :msp_biggrin:
Jeff


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## TreeAce (Apr 22, 2011)

jefflovstrom said:


> Yeah, but I am in a mellow mood so I am seeing what ya'll are saying before I jump in.
> Jeff :msp_tongue:


 
LOL...the only reason I revisited this thread was cuz I saw Jeff had posted and thought "sweet, this will be good".....guess I will check back later.

ITSAGRIND...stay determined,stay SAFE,stay teachable.


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## FanOFatherNash (Apr 26, 2011)

itsagrind said:


> what brands do you think are the best when it comes to used equipment?


 
If you wire the 50k to my Nigerian address, I will purchase the equipment for you. ...


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## Cutler tree (May 13, 2011)

*It's all about the climber*

Alright I agree you should have some sort of a business plan if you plan on doing mostly grinding $15000 for a self propelled sounds like a great deal. I don't know not in the market for one. that leaves you with 35000 I would start with a good chipper I would go at least 12' and even more important an autofeeder, just so much safer. I'm gonna say 5 to 10k for this ( I bought my 94 morbark for $2500 and put about $500 in paint and repairs into it so I'm sure you can find one for closer to 5) next a bucket truck (something in the 50' or higher platform height over center booms, preferably certed) I'd say 15000 to 20000 on this) Spend some cash on insurance and advertising but the best things you can do is HIRE THE BEST CLIMBER YOU CAN FIND he will pay for himself in just added production, then take quality, safety, and what you learn off of him, it may not be a bad Idea to look for a great climber and offer them an equity stake or at least a consulting fee before you buy your first rope, saw etc.


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## itsagrind (May 13, 2011)

Cutler tree said:


> Alright I agree you should have some sort of a business plan if you plan on doing mostly grinding $15000 for a self propelled sounds like a great deal. I don't know not in the market for one. that leaves you with 35000 I would start with a good chipper I would go at least 12' and even more important an autofeeder, just so much safer. I'm gonna say 5 to 10k for this ( I bought my 94 morbark for $2500 and put about $500 in paint and repairs into it so I'm sure you can find one for closer to 5) next a bucket truck (something in the 50' or higher platform height over center booms, preferably certed) I'd say 15000 to 20000 on this) Spend some cash on insurance and advertising but the best things you can do is HIRE THE BEST CLIMBER YOU CAN FIND he will pay for himself in just added production, then take quality, safety, and what you learn off of him, it may not be a bad Idea to look for a great climber and offer them an equity stake or at least a consulting fee before you buy your first rope, saw etc.


 
hiring a climber and giving him a stake is an excellent idea!!! thanks


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## itsagrind (May 13, 2011)

TreeAce said:


> LOL...the only reason I revisited this thread was cuz I saw Jeff had posted and thought "sweet, this will be good".....guess I will check back later.
> 
> ITSAGRIND...stay determined,stay SAFE,stay teachable.


 
thanks!! appreciate the advice.


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## itsagrind (May 13, 2011)

beastmaster said:


> You have good drive and a stake, but like a lot of others have said, you need a good buisness plan. I have been in this buisness as a top employee for many years. I have lots of experience, but when I decided to start a buisness of my own years ago, I got a real eye opener. I never worked so hard for so little that first year. It gave me a new respect for owner operators. Before I shut down I had an ulcer, was on the verge of a nervous breakdown and ended up losing my home and owing the IRS.
> I am happy now helping others run their businesses in the field. Chipper truck blows up, I still get paid and go home, something get destroyed or if a job runs way over, I get paid and go home and get a good night sleep.
> Not everyone can bid right, put in the non-stop hours(it seems)of maintenance and book keeping, working all day and then bidding jobs after work or before.
> My point being there is a lot more to running a tree service then climbing and counting your money. My hats off to all you owner operators, and good luck isagrind. Beastmaster


 
I had other businesses in the past that were tied to the real estate bubble (yes, I lost everything, thats another story for another day): I am used to the hours, maintance and adult daycare, I don't know anything else.


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## CRThomas (Jun 3, 2011)

*Info*

If your going in to the firewood business wright do not plan on making money wright off. You treat you customers the way you want to be treated and you will fair good. Thru time you will get those slickwillys business. If you plan on getting big each employ will get part of your profit and then the business runs you you don't run it any more so think down the road. It took me a while to get where I am with a lot of bad moves. I know cause it hurt me to lose customer because I got bad employes and the wrong equipment. I am down to 2 trucks 2 log splitter 1 wrapper 1 front end loader 2 trailers ad one retired part help. I make more now than I did before. I go in at night and sleep like a baby cause every thing is pay for. The next day I know my plan. FIre wooding is tough business in the fall firewood venders come out of the wood.They sell a little pick up load thrower in or 45 dollars and want to know why you truck is 65 dollars. You have to stack and show them the difference. Then there customers for life. Remember the little old lady has to have wood her size. Then the he man wants it in big chucks. One of my customers want a wrapped bundle ever day put on her fire place so she can build her little in her fire place and drink her glass of wineI sell more fire wood in June and July than in Jan and febuary. Later


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## treeclimber101 (Jun 3, 2011)

lxt said:


> From what I have read this thread makes me laugh & then thinking it to be serious.....just gives me gas!!
> 
> 1st- muscles & a bow saw  you have done sales & climbed silos...... x 1000
> 
> ...


 
Your forgetting the most important thing were not accepting applications for new "TREE GUYS" at this time please check back at the beginning of the next building boom .... We've got enough right about now maybe check out plumbing or the medical industry...


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## fishercat (Jun 3, 2011)

*If you're looking at Vermeer...............*



itsagrind said:


> as far as the mentor, I have been looking for a partner in my area, if anyone out there is looking for a partner in western Mpls, please respond other than actual tree care knowledge, I bring many other skills to the table.


 
you're gonna need more than 50k just for parts and repairs.

Bandit chippers and Carlton stumpers. for a start.


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## treeclimber101 (Jun 4, 2011)

In all seriousness you could get in the game for a lot less than 50 K a decent truck and chipper will cost ya 20/25 grand and some hand tools maybe 2k , don't start a business with debt or you WILL NOT SUCEED its a fact that 80% of small business that starts with debt fail within 3yrs...


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