# Bucket trucks...



## Blakesmaster (Oct 4, 2008)

My brother and I saw a "crew" beside the road today with an old power company bucket, a pickup with some plywood sides and a chipper hacking away at a tree. I immediately saw them for what they were. The chipper was a rental, they had a pickup which was most likely one of the guys' personal vehicles with some plywood and a blue tarp on top ( have fun pitchforking that out! ), no signs on the trucks, no hardhats, no hearing protection...hacks. My brother conceded that they were most likely not pros but was impressed that they had a bucket truck. I told him a lot of guys buy that as their fist piece of equipment because they don't know how to climb and they assume they can figure the clean up part out if they can just get the tree on the ground. Still, my bro thought, even though he and I know better, that the average HO will think that they look more pro than us simply because of the bucket. I granted him that a bucket does look a bit more professional than our usual tree monkey bonanza but there's a list of things a mile long that I think we need more than a bucket...Dingo, GRCS, a bigger dumper, a new chipper, about 10 more saws, yadda yadda yadda... I know a bucket will aid productivity and keep fatigue at bay but so will a lot of other things. What I want to know is do you guys think adding a bucket truck to my lil signature down there will help procure more jobs because we now "look" more professional?


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## oldirty (Oct 4, 2008)

sure you will up your production. but if you cant get rid of the chips as fast as you put the wood on the ground.......then what is the production actually gained? plus you have 3 climbers right?

if i was to get some balls and go out on my own i'd like to think that i would wait on the bucket till i have a hard time climbing. that would the limit saddle time and allow me to climb when i have to not because i have to.

i'd say fill your needs first unless a sweet ass deal came down the road. lol


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## Bigus Termitius (Oct 4, 2008)

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.

Sure, some may think it looks more professional...even smarter.

But in reality, in your situation it most likely isn't.

Stick with what is working for you and get what you need first, and then consider a bucket.

Be ready for the increased production before it actually gets there.

I'm a bucket operator first, so I am in the market for a utility unit to go with my two grain trucks I'm going to use for chip/big wood trucks. (me no pitch forko)

This spring I'm hoping to be rolling on my own on the weekends at least, but no rush.

Eventually I will be a fulltime climber by choice, and maybe even hire a couple climbers so I can run two crews.

Howbeit, if I were a full time climber now, a bucket would be a ways off on my list no matter what the "NO PPE hacks" are up to down the street.

When you hear the sirens, just keep climbing. Therein might just be a good indication of a deal on a local bucket truck in the near future.


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## toddstreeservic (Oct 4, 2008)

Why don't you offer him a job? If he brings his bucket truck to work with him.


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## gr8scott72 (Oct 4, 2008)

This is user Fireman's lift. I think this a great substitute to a bucket. Only 5k lbs, 5.5' wide, 4wd, proportianal controls, 55 foot lift, and 30 foot reach.


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## Slvrmple72 (Oct 4, 2008)

I have a chipper, old chuck and duck, an F-350 with a plywood chip box with storage above the trucks crew cab for all the rakes, shovels, pitchfork , 4 saws, climbing and rigging gear, pole pruner/pole saw, GRCS, and a Load Handler for unloading the chips ( the fellas at the dump unloading their branches chuckle at me at least until they see how quickly I crank a full load of chips out!) Professional? Professional is how you conduct yourself with the equipment you have. I have seen bucket crews trash a tree they were pruning but bombing the limbs and tearing chunks of bark off the tree. Maybe a bucket will be in my future but first things first: Dump Pro for the truck, Air Shocks, 12000# dump trailer, used Toro Dingo 525 narrow track (diesel, of course) with the Beaver Squeezer Grapple, and a debris bucket.


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## Blakesmaster (Oct 5, 2008)

Oh, hell yeah guys. I know with our crew ( and chipper ) that a bucket right now will not increase our productivity by much at all. That old whisper would better be refered to as a yeller. It is pretty much impossible to do any type of job with it running with the exception of cut and drop spruces, arborvitae's and the like that just get blasted through it anyway. As it is right now on a medium tree we always end up pulling the climber and blasting the sticks through for a bit so we can clear some yard space. Anyway, I'm not really looking to up our prodution ( we can get done in 12 hours what my old crew does in about 8 with 2 less guys and about $700,000 less in equipment ) because we know how to bust azz and get stuff done. The above mentioned figures relate to certain aspects of our work. Large chip loads, lot clearing, "holy shat that's a big tree's aside", we can put out the wood. Anyways, that's not the point. How much more professional do you think a bucket truck makes you look? Not to the homeowners, who you've talked to and love you but the neighbors, the passersby, the reg'lar Joe's on the street. Most people outside this industry don't think what we do can be done w/out a bucket and expect to see one on any legit tree service's jobsite, don't they?


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## toddstreeservic (Oct 5, 2008)

We don't have a bucket either. We stockpile jobs where one is required (or it would be easier) and then rent a towable manlift for a week. Usually 1 week a year.


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## tree MDS (Oct 5, 2008)

Blakesmaster said:


> My brother and I saw a "crew" beside the road today with an old power company bucket, a pickup with some plywood sides and a chipper hacking away at a tree. I immediately saw them for what they were. The chipper was a rental, they had a pickup which was most likely one of the guys' personal vehicles with some plywood and a blue tarp on top ( have fun pitchforking that out! ), no signs on the trucks, no hardhats, no hearing protection...hacks. My brother conceded that they were most likely not pros but was impressed that they had a bucket truck. I told him a lot of guys buy that as their fist piece of equipment because they don't know how to climb and they assume they can figure the clean up part out if they can just get the tree on the ground. Still, my bro thought, even though he and I know better, that the average HO will think that they look more pro than us simply because of the bucket. I granted him that a bucket does look a bit more professional than our usual tree monkey bonanza but there's a list of things a mile long that I think we need more than a bucket...Dingo, GRCS, a bigger dumper, a new chipper, about 10 more saws, yadda yadda yadda... I know a bucket will aid productivity and keep fatigue at bay but so will a lot of other things. What I want to know is do you guys think adding a bucket truck to my lil signature down there will help procure more jobs because we now "look" more professional?


I would wait awhile Blakes, you will be a better tree service for it. I ran my small biz for ten years before even subbing one out- and then fell in love admittedly. Thats when you really appriciate it- after you've figured out how to do most anything without it. I like to think I climbed my way into my bucket. It is sure nice to have though, so many things are indeed more professional, sometimes climbing just doesnt make sense, like when its a pita climb but my groundguy could probably cut and hold and get her down himself with the truck. Cost me about 30K a year with ins. gas and all I figure, so it really does take a chunk- but its nicer. When them old #$#@$ start asking me if I have a "cherry picker" I'm quick with an answer you bet, lol. I still get off on handsawing and handsnipping the tips while smoking a cig too. The nicest thing is probably just being able to come down whenever you want- unlike climbing.


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## Bigus Termitius (Oct 5, 2008)

> How much more professional do you think a bucket truck makes you look? Not to the homeowners, who you've talked to and love you but the neighbors, the passersby, the reg'lar Joe's on the street. Most people outside this industry don't think what we do can be done w/out a bucket and expect to see one on any legit tree service's jobsite, don't they?



To some, some of the time, it may look "more" professional. 

I like the comment that professionalism is how you conduct yourself with what you have.

Clean equipment goes a long way to pronounce your professionalism to the public. For example, if I run older equipment, but it looks sharp, I may appear more professional than someone that doesn't take good care of newer equipment.

I've heard it said that "a dirty truck makes as much money as a clean one."

I largely disagree.

Same goes with employees.

A nice bucket, crane, and grapple on the sight may communicate success to some, larger overhead to others. I think it sometimes depends on the neighborhood or individual's status. Some would rather the tree service in there neighborhood have all the high end toys because it gives the illusion of success and competence.

In other situations, a man's ability to get the same job done just as well with less is attractive....especially when the bill reflects it.

So then there is no question that a bucket is going to increase your curb appeal to some degree, but will it really pay for itself, will it be worth it? These are the questions that need a reasonable answer.

It seems you are doing just fine without it. If you are, then I'd concentrate on your A list first.


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## custom8726 (Oct 5, 2008)

Bigus Termitius said:


> To some, some of the time, it may look "more" professional.
> 
> I like the comment that professionalism is how you conduct yourself with what you have.
> 
> ...




Yup sure will!! We get alot more work for having nice (lettered Equipment) then the guy with the plywood sided 3/4 ton in most cases. I should know thats how I started out, Banging out side jobs on the weekend with my personal truck and a chipper rental while working full time for another tree service. You have to work your way up to it I believe and it sounds like you guys are doing just fine with out it, But I think you would be wise to look into a bucket truck purchase in the future IMHO....


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## Blakesmaster (Oct 5, 2008)

*Thanks for the input, guys...*

My original business plan included the purchase of either a Spider or Nifty, or even a Genie lift w/in the first 3-5 years but I've gotten a bit of sticker shock on those. I could most likely scrounge up enough dough for an old bucket truck next season if needed but it does scare me a bit to hop in a boom in my price range. I don't buy used climbing lines if you catch my drift... Plus the whole overhead, insurance, maintenance on another truck thing is a bit daunting at this point. I was just wondering if I'd pick up more work by simply having it on site. I think I will probably try and hold off till I can get a smaller self propelled or towable unit that's either new or dern close to it but I would like to hear some more opinions from the guys who have made the switch and if it did up their incoming jobs.


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## Blakesmaster (Oct 5, 2008)

I also agree that clean vehicles are very important and do my best to keep the trucks looking nice. Our Chevy's a little rusty but the dump and estimate truck are very sharp looking considering their age, the stumper has always been garage kept and will continue to be now that I own it and our chipper...well...I guess everyone has that one piece of equipment that ain't the prettiest and has the hood open a few more times than it should be on the jobsite. That's why I want one of them before a lift.


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## oldirty (Oct 5, 2008)

i love the buying used climbing line analogy. 

buy a "life sized" inflatable bucket truck that you can blow up on the job. that should solve the professional look issue! lol

get that new chipper and repaint what you got man. you cant forget about your need for saws. and a saddle.....right? 

keep plug'n man.


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## tree MDS (Oct 5, 2008)

The locals seem to think I'm more of a player now that I have the truck it seems. I laugh and just take all I can get, whatever works I figure. Another thing is the way that you look at jobs is soo much different- leaners, wires, roping wood, all that is now easy for me now with the bucket. Allthough sometimes the boom really gets in the way on a big takedown where you're swinging big leads.


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## oldirty (Oct 5, 2008)

tree MDS said:


> The locals seem to think I'm more of a player now that I have the truck it seems. I laugh and just take all I can get, whatever works I figure. Another thing is the way that you look at jobs is soo much different- leaners, wires, roping wood, all that is now easy for me now with the bucket. Allthough sometimes the boom really gets in the way on a big takedown where you're swinging big leads.



sounds like youre killing it man. how's old brown treat'n ya? lol

i love that bucket you got man. that things is rather bad ass.


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## tree MDS (Oct 5, 2008)

oldirty said:


> sounds like youre killing it man. how's old brown treat'n ya? lol
> 
> i love that bucket you got man. that things is rather bad ass.



Thanks dude- it sure costs enough, lol. Things are in a slower spell around here, the niebor's mexicans came up looking for work yesterday, I guess he had them splitting wood for a week straight and then told them no more workie, lol. Old brown's been out alot lately, you'd be proud, kickin it old school style, lol. As for Stubs, that thing is a life saver really- if you want to make decent money that is- of course it all goes to pay for it so...:monkey: I'm hoping for one more good rush of treework for the fall, then its in the shop minting stuff out and feeding the fire for me. Seriously though, its time for a new saddle, care to help me figure out what kind??


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## Blakesmaster (Oct 5, 2008)

oldirty said:


> i love the buying used climbing line analogy.
> 
> buy a "life sized" inflatable bucket truck that you can blow up on the job. that should solve the professional look issue! lol
> 
> ...



I bet the boom sway would be a little more on one of those inflatable jobbies! Something to think about, I guess. As far as the saddle goes, I'll be buying one eventually but climbing gear is personal expense, not business so that won't happen till I'm sure my stash will last the cold, ya know? And we all know 8 saws for three guys is far from acceptable! If we're all in the air one guy would ONLY have two on his belt! I don't know how anyone can operate like that.


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## tree MDS (Oct 5, 2008)

I think the traverse will probably be the one, but not sure. Do they still make a normal sized ladder hook for my saws?? I've only seem those giant aluminum ones lately, too big. How would I attach it also? Not to derail, lol.


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## custom8726 (Oct 5, 2008)

Blakesmaster said:


> My original business plan included the purchase of either a Spider or Nifty, or even a Genie lift w/in the first 3-5 years but I've gotten a bit of sticker shock on those. I could most likely scrounge up enough dough for an old bucket truck next season if needed but it does scare me a bit to hop in a boom in my price range. I don't buy used climbing lines if you catch my drift... Plus the whole overhead, insurance, maintenance on another truck thing is a bit daunting at this point. I was just wondering if I'd pick up more work by simply having it on site. I think I will probably try and hold off till I can get a smaller self propelled or towable unit that's either new or dern close to it but I would like to hear some more opinions from the guys who have made the switch and if it did up their incoming jobs.



Good points. If money was no object I would buy a 75' genie lift and a 100 ton crane to set it in those imposible spots. But untill I win the lottery or all the other tree companies around me go out of buisness, I make do.. An used bucket is not as scary as using second hand climbing lines by far. If you are mechanically inclined you can make a pretty good diagnosis of the maintenance or lack there of the equipment in question and determin if its worth the money and of course safe to operate. Pretty much all the bigger aerial lift companies have people that will come to your shop, job sight, ETC..ETC.. And specialize in diagnosing any problems or problems to come with an used lift. Its actually pretty reasonable like $800.00 to get a boom inspected, certified, and Di-electrically tested. Not saying a bucket should be your next purchase just saying you do not have to spend 100k+ to get a clean, safe, aerial lift.


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## tree MDS (Oct 5, 2008)

Used bucket truck treat used climber good.


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## Lumberjacked (Oct 5, 2008)

As of now we do not use/have a bucket either. Most of our work is on the lake here where buckets are not easily used to begin with. I have been looking at the Nifty Lifts and really like not having another truck insurance payment, truck maintenance, etc. I noticed that over in Europe guys are using small cab overs, unimogs, and other non "typical" truck set ups. Is anyone here using a Nifty Lift or the like on something like a F-550 or a cab over? I completely steer clear of power lines so having a dielectric lift really isnt a issue.


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## tree MDS (Oct 5, 2008)

Spider on the back of a 550, if possible that would be sweet. 75' reach of course.


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## treemandan (Oct 5, 2008)

gr8scott72 said:


> This is user Fireman's lift. I think this a great substitute to a bucket. Only 5k lbs, 5.5' wide, 4wd, proportianal controls, 55 foot lift, and 30 foot reach.



My, does anyone know how fast I would be running up that thing and sending out limbs to go right into the chipper? Just joking... but yeah, real fast, by the time you got that thing off the trailer fast.
Nice lift, I am sure it comes in handy. Still, if that tree rolled you would get it no matter what.


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## treemandan (Oct 5, 2008)

tree MDS said:


> Used bucket truck treat used climber good.



so you are doing the tomtrees thing?


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## Rftreeman (Oct 5, 2008)

if you got the money then buy one but if what you have looks good and is in order like doors not falling off and such then I wouldn't worry about it, I like proving the "you're gonna need a bucket" people wrong and then taking their money after I do, there are more tree companies without a bucket then there are with one. I plan to get one someday just for the production reason but that all.


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## Blakesmaster (Oct 5, 2008)

treemandan said:


> so you are doing the tomtrees thing?



Wow! When I first read that post I didn't see who wrote it but I "knew". Have another one MDS!


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## tree MDS (Oct 6, 2008)

treemandan said:


> so you are doing the tomtrees thing?


Yaarr, twas a good day, lol. And blakes, dont worry, I had many more, lol.


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## Blakesmaster (Oct 6, 2008)

tree MDS said:


> Yaarr, twas a good day, lol. And blakes, dont worry, I had many more, lol.



I'm havin' may first now. Twas a LOOOOONG day.


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## tree MDS (Oct 6, 2008)

Made up for yesterday by finishing the last of those two big a$$ red oak fine prunes today though. What a PITA that was, looks good though. And yes I admit sounding like tomtrees back there, actually I noticed it then, but kept it cuz it definately made me LOL, lol.


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## murphy4trees (Oct 9, 2008)

*chipper first*

Get a big chipper and chip truck first... go 15" or bigger on the chipper with a winch... And a big 14'+ forrestry body on the truck. You need the chipper on every tree job... with the money you make with the new chipper you can go buy a bucket... and all that other stuff too...
PS Hey dan... there is no way that tree is gonna roll as long as it is still on the root plate...


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## CLEARVIEW TREE (Oct 9, 2008)

Blakesmaster said:


> My brother and I saw a "crew" beside the road today with an old power company bucket, a pickup with some plywood sides and a chipper hacking away at a tree. I immediately saw them for what they were. The chipper was a rental, they had a pickup which was most likely one of the guys' personal vehicles with some plywood and a blue tarp on top ( have fun pitchforking that out! ), no signs on the trucks, no hardhats, no hearing protection...hacks. My brother conceded that they were most likely not pros but was impressed that they had a bucket truck. I told him a lot of guys buy that as their fist piece of equipment because they don't know how to climb and they assume they can figure the clean up part out if they can just get the tree on the ground. Still, my bro thought, even though he and I know better, that the average HO will think that they look more pro than us simply because of the bucket. I granted him that a bucket does look a bit more professional than our usual tree monkey bonanza but there's a list of things a mile long that I think we need more than a bucket...Dingo, GRCS, a bigger dumper, a new chipper, about 10 more saws, yadda yadda yadda... I know a bucket will aid productivity and keep fatigue at bay but so will a lot of other things. What I want to know is do you guys think adding a bucket truck to my lil signature down there will help procure more jobs because we now "look" more professional?


 Blakes, the guys you speak of may very well do great work. Remember you can't always judge a book by it's cover! Most of us in the tree care industry, myself and a few friends included had to start with nothing. We'd work 8-10 hrs aday for a job, then take off in the eves witha truck and a trailer and go make some side change. Admittedly, i even did topping years ago until a close friend who's now ISA certified arborist taught me it was wrong. Anyways, we all mostly had to start out with pretty much from the ground up, sans for the davey, nelson,care of trees, wolf tree, etc. that basically inherited a heck of a biz ya know. Always remember that we all started from the ground up. If ya see someone making a wrong practice tell em about it, chances are they'll thank you and be excited to meet someone who does the same trade and wants to help em out a little instead of gettin somethin back.

As far as a bucket, my friend kenner tree and i just bought our own bucket trucks. It has really been a big help and saves loads of climbing. Customers normally think you have to have a bucket to do every tree, even though we don't, and they know we got it so they call. So the bucket does rake in extra cash. Also, when people ask me to clean there gutters while i'm trimming over there house, i usually do if i've got the time, and it's nice to get the extra cash and it's fast with the bucket. I bought my truck up in kentucky, it's a 1991 Ford F-700 turbo diesel chip dump, with a 55 foot teco saturn. It's got 89,000 miles and i got em down from 13,600 to 11,500. It's got good tires, great brakes, and plenty of lockable storage for all my gear. I even talked with the prev. mtnc guy and the owner of the truck too, and they both said the truck had regular svc, and was kept around an extra year due to it being a great truck. So good luck to ya friend, look around and you'll find an equal deal when the times right for you too.


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## Blakesmaster (Oct 9, 2008)

murphy4trees said:


> Get a big chipper and chip truck first... go 15" or bigger on the chipper with a winch... And a big 14'+ forrestry body on the truck. You need the chipper on every tree job... with the money you make with the new chipper you can go buy a bucket... and all that other stuff too...
> PS Hey dan... there is no way that tree is gonna roll as long as it is still on the root plate...



That'd be nice, Murph but my pockets ain't quite that deep. I hope to be in at least a 10 inch or possibly 12 w/in a year or so and we're converting our dump to a bigger box and sliding an ezdumper into the chevy if all goes as planned this winter. So I may not have a bigger truck but I'd have two smaller ones w/out that much added expense. Maybe then I can start thinking bucket. Wait, I think a dingo was needed before the chipper. So many toys, so little money.....


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## mckeetree (Oct 9, 2008)

Blakesmaster said:


> That'd be nice, Murph but my pockets ain't quite that deep. I hope to be in at least a 10 inch or possibly 12 w/in a year or so and we're converting our dump to a bigger box and sliding an ezdumper into the chevy if all goes as planned this winter. So I may not have a bigger truck but I'd have two smaller ones w/out that much added expense. Maybe then I can start thinking bucket. Wait, I think a dingo was needed before the chipper. So many toys, so little money.....



Maybe you could set some of those coffee cans around and take up some kind of collection.


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