# I need a new climbing saw



## GlennG (Oct 3, 2006)

I need a new climb saw. I`m not up with all the new stuff. I curently use an old Echo CS-301 . Great light saw but a bit under powered for big removals. I`ve used the Husky 338 and hate it so don`t waste my time suggesting this unbalanched shockmiester. In the past I liked the Stihl Ms 200 but latley they have been using the stupid gas/oil caps . So I am picky a bout climbing saws , who isn`t. Whats your favorite climb saw???????????????????


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## sawinredneck (Oct 3, 2006)

Sorry, been here a lot, Sthil ms 200t, best there is, nothing else is a close second!
Andy


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## beowulf343 (Oct 3, 2006)

Depends on what you are doing. For trimming I like the 200t (yeah the caps suck but it is still the best top-handled saw out there.) But the saw I love the most and use every day on removals is my 357xp. A bit heavy, but plenty of power to do what you want in a tree, plus I've always preferred a rear-handle saw while climbing. (Besides, swing this saw around in a tree for a few weeks, and you'll get used to the weight.)


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## inztrees (Oct 3, 2006)

just got a 192t doesnt stay running today was its first dav out of the store
will it come into it/? or does it need to go back


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## bz262 (Oct 3, 2006)

i gotta agree w/ beowulf. a rear handled saw is better for anything more than a deadlimb. i use an old 262. it was heavy for about a month, but it's worth it in the long run.


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## emr (Oct 3, 2006)

we have 2 192s. i personally think that they are great pruning saws. they are light weight and very comfy to use. they dont have much power, but to me, the light weight for climbing around far out weighs the lack of power. we have had ours for alittle over a year and they both run great, even in the cold wi winters. they are great for prunings, but for removals, nothing beats a 200t.


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## RedlineIt (Oct 3, 2006)

MS200t bar none. Stihl's recent repositioning of the compensating tube eliminates my only gripe with this saw and shows Stihl is out there, listening and improving their climbing saw.

What are your problems with the quick caps????

I have them on my 361 and 044 as well as my 200t, they're fast, easy to use 
and bulletproof. What's not to like?


RedlineIt


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## woodchux (Oct 3, 2006)

200T... Just dont overfill the oil and the cap wont 'separate'


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## sawinredneck (Oct 3, 2006)

inztrees said:


> just got a 192t doesnt stay running today was its first dav out of the store
> will it come into it/? or does it need to go back




Take it back and have the dealer readjust the carb!
Andy


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## hamradio (Oct 3, 2006)

I'd have to go with the only one I've used/owned-
Olympyk 935DF.  Like it, gas tank pops out easily if it needs to be flushed. Got it for $20 or $30. (I think like $27) I've had throttle linkage issues (need a new one, it is bent, I can't bend it right, and it sticks. I've surprised a few people with its power for such a little thing.


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## TreeBarber (Oct 3, 2006)

I would recommend the 200T.


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## pbtree (Oct 3, 2006)

I have a 335 XPT, but I also use and enjoy a rear handled saw while climbing. 

I would tend to think a 346 owuld be a bit easier to climb with than a 357, but what the hey!


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## huggybear (Oct 4, 2006)

ms200, but i would get the bar with the plastic insert. It balances the saw even better i think and well worth it.


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## fishhuntcutwood (Oct 4, 2006)

200t


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## beowulf343 (Oct 4, 2006)

pbtree said:


> I would tend to think a 346 owuld be a bit easier to climb with than a 357, but what the hey!


Ha Ha, too easy, that's the problem. I have a terrible tendency to one hand my saws when i'm in a tree. The 346 is light enough for me that it is no problem one handing. But the 357 with a couple extra pounds makes me stop and think and put both hands on the saw before cutting.


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## jomoco (Oct 8, 2006)

Like most of the other veteran climbers I feel that the ms200 is the best choice, particularly for removals. However there are two things about the ms200 that really annoy me. The first is of course the stupid new gas and oil caps. But what really gets to me is that regardless of whether it's an 020T or a ms200, it's just a matter of time before the muffler rattles loose and eventually fractures into pieces. This was never a problem with the old magnesium 020's, which I believe were the most powerful climb saws ever made. I have e-mailed Stihl about their stupid caps and flawed muffler design, and am not surprised that they have not replied to me. I'm sure they do quite well selling new mufflers to their frustrated customers!

Other manufacturers have a very good opportunity here to produce a saw that can meet the rigorous demands of a demolition climber, and successfully replace Stihl as the top dog in the field now. It's really too bad that Stihl doesn't listen to their professional customers feed back and correct these relatively minor design flaws, but hey that's their problem, and eventually they'll pay the price in lost sales.

Any of you other guys had problems with loose and fractured mufflers on 020's and ms200's like I have with every single one I've bought?

jomoco


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## Eagle1 (Oct 8, 2006)

yea....the 200t is best....but then those bogging out problems.......


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## RedlineIt (Oct 9, 2006)

> I have e-mailed Stihl about their stupid caps and flawed muffler design, and am not surprised that they have not replied to me.



I'm not surprised either. If you can't figure out the worlds simplest gas cap, there is good reason to believe that mufflers are beyond you.

THE ONLY muffler problems I've ever seen on 200t's are mufflers that the customer removed to do god knows what with. After that they rattle off.

Left stock, never heard of a problem.


RedlineIt


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## Jonsered Rep (Oct 9, 2006)

*Biased*

My opinion is very biased but have you tried the Jonsered 2135t???
might be worth looking into. we have had it on the market for a few months now and have not had many complaints about it.


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## Eagle1 (Oct 9, 2006)

Redline......the worlds simplest gas cap? Never heard of ANY other problems?

Keep you head buried in the sand and you will continue to see nothing.

I have used the 200t for a long time. There are MANY DOCUMENTED problems and th oil cap is one...and so is the carb. I use the 200t because it is the fastest cutting hand held.....but nothing is perfect about it.


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## 1CallLandscape (Oct 9, 2006)

i special ordered my 200 with the old caps 2 months ago. as far as the muffler gos just put some lock tite on them bolts

i also run a stihl 017 with some porting and muffler mods. i find that it out performs the 200 in bigger wood and has awesome balance even when using it one handed... this is my prefered saw for blocking down. it is VERY durable for a cheap a** "homeowner" saw , mine has survived a 65' fall ( thanks to my new groundie still learning his knots my saw fell ) and at 1/3 the cost of the 200 how can you go wrong!!


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## Fumbler (Oct 9, 2006)

Eagle1 said:


> Redline......the worlds simplest gas cap? Never heard of ANY other problems?
> 
> Keep you head buried in the sand and you will continue to see nothing.
> 
> I have used the 200t for a long time. There are MANY DOCUMENTED problems and th oil cap is one...and so is the carb. I use the 200t because it is the fastest cutting hand held.....but nothing is perfect about it.


Are there a lot of problems because there are so many out there, or is the percentage of 200t's with problems actually higher than other saws?

Say Stihl sells 100,000 MS200T's. 50 of them blow up and those owners tell everyone what happend.

Now say Husqvarna sells 5,000 338XPTs. 5 of them blow up and those owners tell everyone.

Which is the better product? The Stihl has a 0.05% failure rate while the Husqvarna fails twice as often (0.1%), but still some may think the Stihl is a poor product.
Is this the case?


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## jomoco (Oct 10, 2006)

I've stated my belief that the ms200 is the top saw for take downs currently available.

However I know for a fact that I'm not the only professional climber that's annoyed by their stupid gas and oil caps, single adjustment carburetors, flawed muffler design and mickey mouse lanyard attachment point, etc.

Any reps or or enlightened manufacturerers that read this forum need to get back to old time common sense product design.

Oil and gas caps need to be rugged and durable, and because they are dust magnets, their design should be such that they can be readily cleaned with a few swipes of an oil rag, this will keep the muck out of the tanks and carb.

Carbs need three adjustment screws, high, low, and idle. Air filter elements need to be made of a synthetic material that can be cleaned with gas in the field. Those flock paper air filters that say clean with soap and water only are a joke!

Large mufflers require enough firm attachment points with air craft grade bolts that they won't rattle loose or fracture. I know of no loc tite ever made that can withstand the heat of direct exhaust exposure.

Lanyard attachment points should be incredibly durable and designed in a manner that allows the climber to attach it to his saddle with one hand, and preferably without even looking.

And I know that some of you guys out there that use the ms200 have put your new fangled oil cap on thinking that it was on correctly, only to have it fall off once you were in the tree, and coat your leg with bar oil that you would have to wear and smell for the rest of the day.

You see the cap has to be at exactly the 6 and 12 Oclock position when you twist the locking mechanism to secure it, and though it will act like it's on if you engage it otherwise, the jokes on you, the tree, the lawn, your pants, your boots, and any number of things below you.

Sorry for ranting but I needed to get it out.

jomoco


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## hornett22 (Oct 16, 2006)

*i like the 192t but..............*

the carbs are never right new.have it adjusted or learn to do it yourself.
i adjusted the carb after opening the muffler up a little,got rid of the low kickback chain, and it's a completely different saw.sorry but the 200 is too heavy.i still don't see the problem with the fuel and oil caps.i like them and have had absolutely no trouble with them what so ever on my 192 or my pole saw and i'm a husky man.

oh and the 192 has three adjusment screws!


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## sawinredneck (Oct 16, 2006)

hornett22 said:


> .sorry but the 200 is too heavy.i still don't see the problem with the fuel and oil caps.i like them and have had absolutely no trouble with them what so ever on my 192 or my pole saw and i'm a husky man.
> 
> oh and the 192 has three adjusment screws!




I see the heavey with the 200, but I want one. no problems with the new caps YET, but you will!!!!!!!!
Andy


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## treesandsurf (Oct 16, 2006)

I remember the first time I ever used a 200t and the guy I was working for spent like twenty minutes on the ground making sure that I understood how to close the oil cap, because he did not want me to send it up to him and have the oil spill out all over the place... never closed it wrong yet (knock on wood)

other than that and a few other small problems mentioned, it's the best all around saw out there, although I prefer a 338 husqy for light pruning jobs.. 

jp


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## musch (Oct 16, 2006)

So.... realizing that I am opening a can of worms here, 
anybody here have experience with the top-handle Husky's like the 338?


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## treesandsurf (Oct 16, 2006)

I might be treading into dangerous waters here, but I like the 338xpt especially for light pruning work, it feels well balanced and is a bit more ergonomic IMHO, but I won't argue that power wise and for removals the 200 takes the cake. 

jp


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## matty f (Oct 17, 2006)

I really cant understand how people have a problem with the oil and petrol caps,sure ive been coated with oil on more than one occasion due to the grounds man been retarded and not closing them but it was far worse with the old style caps ,at least you know they are locked but unless the old style caps have been done up with a comby spanner they would vibrate lose somtimes or cross thread also the combi spanner would mangle the cap and puncture it so it would need replacing every four months.
Yeah some 200t's ive had seem to love shedding there exhaust bolts but i find huskys far worse for this, i have to carry a spare allen key attached to one of my huskys for this purpose.
My last 200t went three years on the orginal exhaust it never cracked or fell off .

I once had a 338 and in between the rubber between the carb and engine splitting,trying to tune it ,you could rev it up and watch the bar nose sprocket glow red before disintegrating most amusing unless you where trying to get work done!


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## MNClimber (Oct 17, 2006)

I have an old 020t and a 200t like both saw's but the new 200t does have better balance and powers a 16 inch bar better than the 020t does. I also had a johns rude and a Husky I tried them out for a couple of weeks there not bad saws but balance and shape of the saw I personally didn't like and the Stihls seem to take the inevitable fall better with less damage.


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## elmnut (Oct 17, 2006)

jomoco said:


> Like most of the other veteran climbers I feel that the ms200 is the best choice, particularly for removals. However there are two things about the ms200 that really annoy me. The first is of course the stupid new gas and oil caps. But what really gets to me is that regardless of whether it's an 020T or a ms200, it's just a matter of time before the muffler rattles loose and eventually fractures into pieces. This was never a problem with the old magnesium 020's, which I believe were the most powerful climb saws ever made. I have e-mailed Stihl about their stupid caps and flawed muffler design, and am not surprised that they have not replied to me. I'm sure they do quite well selling new mufflers to their frustrated customers!
> 
> Other manufacturers have a very good opportunity here to produce a saw that can meet the rigorous demands of a demolition climber, and successfully replace Stihl as the top dog in the field now. It's really too bad that Stihl doesn't listen to their professional customers feed back and correct these relatively minor design flaws, but hey that's their problem, and eventually they'll pay the price in lost sales.
> 
> ...



Many Stihl dealers have prototype saws that need testing, and feed back from the people that use them. The hard part is calling all the dealers to find one that has test saws. Some are homeowner saws some are pro saws. All my company had to do was fill out a log sheet, and answer some simple questions. Once a month or so a rep will come to you and make some changes to the saw(s). We tested some great saws over the course of 3 years or so. We only stopped because that particular dealer had other problems that outweighed test saws, such as no service or parts.


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## RedlineIt (Oct 17, 2006)

A tip on keeping your 200t/020t mufflers where they ought to be.

Usually the last thing you do with the best take-down saw in the biz is cut the last piece it will handle before you send it down for a bigger saw.

Don't just shut it off after all that work, let it idle away for awhile so that the flywheel fan can breathe some air across all those head/to/exhaust parts and cool them down a bit.

And take the right side off every once in a while and blow the fan out.

Do these two things and your muffler will never rattle loose.


RedlineIt


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## hornett22 (Oct 17, 2006)

*i still don't understand the problem with the caps.*

if you watch what you are doing and slow down a little and pay attention,they work fine.seems the only way they would mess up is if you got it started crooked.i will let you know when i have a problem.my partner could scew up an anvil and even he has had no trouble with them.


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## jomoco (Oct 17, 2006)

RedlineIt said:


> A tip on keeping your 200t/020t mufflers where they ought to be.
> 
> Usually the last thing you do with the best take-down saw in the biz is cut the last piece it will handle before you send it down for a bigger saw.
> 
> ...


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## jomoco (Oct 18, 2006)

*As far as the stupid caps are concerned*



hornett22 said:


> if you watch what you are doing and slow down a little and pay attention,they work fine.seems the only way they would mess up is if you got it started crooked.i will let you know when i have a problem.my partner could scew up an anvil and even he has had no trouble with them.



If the new oil cap were as reliable as the new gas cap, I probably wouldn't be griping on this subject. However I contract out to many different tree companies and therefore end up having my ms200's fueled up by a variety of groundmen, and if I'm lucky enough to get my saw back with the oil cap still on, half the time it's on wrong and I have to take precious time to get it on right or else. This problem only occurs on the ms200 oil cap. The caps on my ms440 work well.

That said, I still don't like these new fangled Stihl caps because it's just a matter of time before you'll have clogged tank filters, carbs and blown oil pumps as a result of all the saw dust crud that these caps collect in their many intricate little crevices, and migrating into the tanks. I use compressed air to clean these new caps off before fueling, and I still find my self using my finger to clean out the crud that creeps down into the filler opening.

To me this is crappy design that can be easily avoided. My old magnesium 
020T had smooth tight surfaces on the gas and oil caps that could be easily cleaned with a few swipes with an oil rag. Realisticly it's ridiculous to think that your average guy in the field is going to have much more than a rag or brush to do any cleaning with anyway......DESIGN FOR IT!

Quality design is a relatively simple straight forward thing, and I'd hate to think these guys that design this stupid stuff are doing it on purpose to sell parts and keep their dealership's repair department busy.

jomoco


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## Sunrise Guy (Oct 18, 2006)

There is no doubt that the oil cap on the 192 is sucky. Today, I had to waste three minutes getting that thing on. It looked fine, I couldn't see any deformations in the grooves, but it just wouldn't catch and seat itself back into the saw body. What a drag! I also know that crud does get into the oil tank, having had to flush my oil tank out with gas to get the filter clean. Oh yeah, the filter. What's with that short hose? You can't take the filter out to change it since the hose is so short. You have to take the whole side of the saw off to change the darn filter. That is ridiculous! My old saws have a long enough hose to just scoop the filter out and pop a new one on in seconds. I agree, wholeheartedly, with the fellow who said the Stihl seems to come up with dumb "improvements" from time to time. Give me back the screw-on caps and the longer tubing on the in-tank oil filter line.


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## hornett22 (Oct 19, 2006)

*i can see your point on the crud.*

alot of it seems to accumulate around the caps.i do agree also that the scew on ones worked fine.it's all marketing.kind of like replacing a solid fron axle and leaf springs on a 4x4 with IFS so soccer moms could drive trucks.


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## matty f (Oct 19, 2006)

Jesus you had to clean your saw !!!!!!!!!! well its a wonder it runs at all, sorry but the old caps where ????,all it takes is a knock pulling them through a few branches and a few mins running and they vibrate off and your covered in petrol (or oil)so you end up red raw or worse in your ayes or all over your crutch,personaly id rather be covered in oil and its realy not that hard to make sure your oil cap is locked.


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## MNClimber (Oct 19, 2006)

I just installed a small Viair air tank and compressor on my truck to blow thing off fill tires on trucks trailers and log carts. Only cost a couple hundred bucks and it worked with my air helper springs. Also if you twist the new caps counter clockwise first they will lock down in the groves a lot better works almost every time. Thats what I showed my ground guys after bathing in enough of my bar oil.


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## RedlineIt (Oct 20, 2006)

Jomoco,

By the time I've worked down far enough to need a bigger saw, I'm still 40 to 60 feet up, saw idling on it's way down is enough.

If it's a smaller tree, telling the groundie to let it idle a minute is not hard.


Tip on 200t oil caps:

If you're filling from more than half empty, saw flat and level, bar to your left, fill to the brim, tip body of saw toward you, large air bubble will release, level of oil goes down to point where cap inserts with ease.

Don't even get me started on Husky 335/338xpt oil pumps! So weak.

If you keep the bar groove to oiler port on a Stihl clear, the pump eats damn near anything.

And sluicing your oil tank out with gas in just normal maint. On any saw.


RedlineIt


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## ratman36 (Oct 21, 2006)

*homelite*

my homelite xl is great for trimming limbs


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## jomoco (Oct 21, 2006)

*I appreciate the advice but...*

Different climbers vary in many things, and I'm certainly no exception to that.

I run 14 inch bars on my ms200's and keep cutting until the wood diameter exceeds 28 inches, at which point I then use a Husky 365 with a 20 inch bar
until the wood diameter exceeds 40 inches, then an ms440 etc all the way to an 88 that I very rarely have need of.

Admittedly I use the ms200's for all they're worth, and have repeatedly stated they're the best for demolition work.

I'd just like to see them get even better, you know get the bugs out, all saws have weaknesses, and it's forums like this that allow climbers and saw manufactureres to improve their respective skills.

Work Safe

jomoco


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## RedlineIt (Oct 21, 2006)

Jomoco,

I run a 16" bar on my 200t and as soon as the wood is 16", I want some darn horsepower up in the tree.

Why would you struggle your way around a 28" chunk of spar with a tiny wee saw when some power and bar length will get it done faster, easier?

I'm all for improvements to the 200t, Stihl is, I believe, also listening.

It took a couple of years, but the gas tank compensation tube has now moved out of harms way. I still think the gap between the tank and carb cover at the back should be filled in, it stihl grabs twigs at annoying moments.

In fact the entire butt-end of the 200t could be less brick shaped, more rounded like the 192t would be very nice.

And where is the use of carbon fibre? A six-way layup instead of injection molded plastic of the top handle, chain brake lever and cover, and the top tube would be way strong and weigh about the same as a bag of potato chips.

CF's expensive, but it's a niche saw with a high price already. I'd pay more for a ms200t CF special!


RedlineIt


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## jomoco (Oct 21, 2006)

*I guess I'm a paranoid wimp*

To answer your question Redline,

I do it because I can, it's precisely because the ms200's are capable of being totally buried in wood and still perform well that I use them.

Conservation of energy is an important principle of climbing that I try to make the most of. 

I've hauled about a dozen tree workers off to the emergency room that didn't respect the power of today's chain saws in the course of my career, most of these injuries ocurred with bigger saws like the 044.

One of my favorite little tricks is switching hands when my ms200 is totally buried in a cut so that my left hand is on the top handle with my pinkie finger controlling the throttle, and my right hand grasping the chain saw lanyard on the back of the saw so that I can achieve better leverage to work the saw through the cut.

As long as my chains are razor sharp, and my bars are straight and true, I find no need to use any bigger saw than I have to when making my cuts.
Call me a paranoid wimp, but my methods have served me well for more than thirty years now.

Work Safe

jomoco


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## ozy365 (Oct 21, 2006)

jomoco

Energy conservation to reduce fatigue definitely results in safer work. I also like to use just the right saw for the wood infront of me. I prefer the 14/16" bar in the tree way over the 25" bar on the 460. Even when I'm blocking out wood on the ground that 25" bar seems too long. We blocked out 48" willow spar that a competitor left behind and that was the only time the 25" felt right


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## DFD34 (Oct 22, 2006)

*Holy Crap!!*

When will everyone learn???????. Open your wallets and buy a sthil. It is that easy. This should be a no brainer.


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## jefflovstrom (Oct 23, 2006)

Mnnnn!--- Jonsered 357. been good to me.


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## SouthernLA (Oct 25, 2006)

I saw a little Echo top handle at Home Depot. I think it was a 330T. $250. It was a special order nobody picked up, $250 was the regular price. I'm gonna wait and see if they knock it down a little just to unload it. I'm sure it's no powerhouse but for that price it'd be great. I'd feel much better if I dropped that little Echo than a 200T!


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## hornett22 (Jun 16, 2007)

*you were correct........*



sawinredneck said:


> I see the heavey with the 200, but I want one. no problems with the new caps YET, but you will!!!!!!!!
> Andy




i now hate them.they seem to suck alot more on the 200 than the 192.guess i'll stick with the old faithful SWEDISH saws.:hmm3grin2orange:


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## sawinredneck (Jun 16, 2007)

I don't think it matters on the model, I think it's a batch problem. One batch is great, the other batch of them sucks!!!


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## ropensaddle (Jun 16, 2007)

Echo makes a new saw just like cs300 or 301 it
is built just like your saw but has more disp. it is
red I think its a cs346 you do have to special order
it but I have had a cs 300 still going strong but just
bought the husky for backup so far so good but
I have always liked them little echo's lite and durable
I don't like the new style 330t or what ever its called
I like the style you have. You can also order a shortblock
and upgrade disp. on your saw>


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