# Insurance costs?



## Yellowdog (Feb 1, 2004)

Just a question for some of the business owners. 
What do you pay on average for liability insurance, equipment insurance (truck liability/collision for 30k 1ton flatbed) and insurance on your chipper or loaders?


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## Koa Man (Feb 2, 2004)

I don't have insurance on my equipment, too expensive and so far, after 20 years in business, no thefts or damage. My current truck is a one ton flatbed dump, and full coverage with $500K liability and $1000 deductable is $1200 a year. My business general liability with $500K coverage and $2500 deductable is $4000 a year. This is with no claims for over 10 years with the same carrier. Insurance costs went up $1000 this year due to 9/11. My question is, how does 9/11 affect our industry? Seems like the insurance and airline industry is using 9/11 as a reason to raise premiums, cut service and everything else they can think of. I had bought a first class ticket for a 2 hour flight on the mainland which listed a hot meal for first class and a snack in coach. I got a stupid bagel and when I questioned the flight attendant, it was because of 9/11 we don't serve meals on this flight anymore. What the h*ll??? Didn't I just pay extra to get a hot meal? Do I get a refund? NO.

I was offered a rider for "terrorism insurance" for $350 a year by my gen. liability carrier. What terrorist is going to waste his time blowing up a small tree company??? I bet that would really raise the public's ire. Maybe I should raise my prices 25%, do a half baked job of raking up the yard, and say, because of 9/11 we had to cut our service, raise our prices and rush home to drink beer.


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## Menchhofer (Feb 2, 2004)

$2mil commercial liability policy about 1300 year.

2004 GMC bucket, 90 Ford F600 chip, chipper, full coverage 1 mil coverage across the board.....4300 yr.


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## arbor01 (Feb 2, 2004)

*insurance cost*

Hello everyone,
My question is for Rocky as I too am from the sunshine state. First I was wondering how you are dealing with the new workers comp laws in our fine state that disallow the exemption of all self-employed business owners that are not incorporated and I also thought I read in another post that you had a new ground person that you enjoyed working with. Woundnt this person qualify as an employee? If not I dont see how a ground person could meet the requirments by law as self employed. I may be missing something, its happened before.


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## NickfromWI (Feb 2, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Koa Man _
> *... My question is, how does 9/11 affect our industry? Seems like the insurance and airline industry is using 9/11 as a reason to raise premiums, ....*




I think a lot of areas of our daily like are being adjusted and people are using 9/11 as an excuse/scapegoat. It's a good place to put the blame because the public feels sympathetic and are not likely to argue. 

Maybe the insurance companies are using tree insurance fees to pay for 9/11.

love
nick


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## Ax-man (Feb 2, 2004)

*Insurance*

Menchofer, did you type that figure right??? That is dirt cheap!!
how big of a detuctible are you carrying, or are you self insuring yourself, or is that a special Indiana rate, because if it is I'm going to incorporate on your side of the line.

The biggest com. lia. I've had was 1mil. with a deductible of 1k last quote 2yrs. ago. over $ 4000. I cut back to 500 K because because heavy commercial work has been non-exsistent the last two years. I can't see carrying a 1 mil. policy for residental work, the 500 K policy still costs about $ 2000 with $ 1k deduct.

Koa Man, What does insurance rates have to do with 9-11, a lot, insurance rates are tied to the stock market, when the market does good the rates stay stable, when it does poor rates go up because insurance companies do not get a good return on the money that you are paying in, this forces the policies to self insure themselves, of course there is no good return for this, so rates rise.

If you back up in time to mid 80's to the Iran scandal, the same thing happened, rates were doubled across the board, no exceptions for any body, it didn't matter wheather you cut trees or had a small shop, every body got it. 

I saw this coming while I watched the twin towers burning on TV. Personally I don't think we have seen the end of it, either. Things may settle down for awhile, but for how long ???

Yellowdog, in respose to your question, I only carry liability and collision on ours, I don't have exact figures only rounded figures.

2 ton trks = approx. $400 / 6 months

1 ton trks= approx $ 200/ 6 months

Things like chippers, stumpers are considered " mobile equipment" by our insurance carrier,and are insured if the are attached to the truck like a trailor. 

You mentioned loader , skid steer or log loader, Ive got a Prentice on a C70 Chevy that beast cost $ 1000 / every 6 months.


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## arbor01 (Feb 2, 2004)

Sorry Rocky, didnt mean to get of thread. I understand your position within the arborculture industry here in florida and the service you provide to your clients. I will start a new thread
Thanks


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## arbor01 (Feb 2, 2004)

Axman hit the nail on the head, insurance is a scam. If the insurance companies get hit in the pocket due to poor investing then we pay for their mistakes. I dont know an insurance man that dosent own at least two homes several cars boats and goes on 5 or 6 vacations a year. Everybody make sure to payup on time. We woudnt want our insurers to go without a meal.


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## Menchhofer (Feb 2, 2004)

yes figures are correct I believe. I think I only have $500 deductable across the board but not sure on that.


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## Ryan Willock (Feb 2, 2004)

My liability covers any tree work I do either residential or commercial as well as my logging. I have a $1,000,000 policy and it costs me $523 per year. The insurance on my log truck is $100,000 policy (thats what they normally write in Virginia) and costs $1,100 per year as opposed to North Carolina it would have been $900 for a $1,000,000 policy!!! The insurance crooks have a real racket around here Insurance for my 1995 chevy pickup is $1,200/year for full coverage and I have a clean driving record!!!


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## NickfromWI (Feb 2, 2004)

That's pretty screwy. Here in NJ, they wanna charge me over 3,000/yr just for auto insurance.

grrrrrr.

love
nick


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## NickfromWI (Feb 2, 2004)

C'mon rocky! You know it don't work like that. They charge me more because I am a nice person and not bitter about many things. They insurance companies don't like that, so they must continue to charge me a lot of money until they are satisfied with my level of bitterness.

I noticed you weren't complaining much about your rates. 

You're the best, Rock!

love <---and I mean that
nick

ps- in all honesty, when I switched my insurance from my larger subaru outback to the smaller civic hybrid, the rates went down.


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## begleytree (Feb 2, 2004)

Everything we own is covered under the same policy, car, truck, work trucks, chippers, grinder, trailers, my boat, ect. full coverage on all autos, dumb not to IMO, $1 mil gen liability on work (minimum for around here, citywise), $250 ded for
$333 a month, or $4k/ year.

After reading some of your costs, sounds like I could make $$ selling my ins agent's name!!!!


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## NeTree (Feb 2, 2004)

Somewhere around $20K a year, between all the policies.


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## wiley_p (Feb 3, 2004)

I'm only gettin geezed for 908.00 a year for 1,000,000 liability and bein hit for 2100.00 a year for my work truck and rigging trailer. The company that I'm subbing for insures my saws and ropes etc. for theft/damage.


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## ORclimber (Feb 3, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Koa Man _
> * Insurance costs went up $1000 this year due to 9/11. My question is, how does 9/11 affect our industry? Seems like the insurance and airline industry is using 9/11 as a reason to raise premiums, cut service and everything else they can think of. . *



It had more to do with the stock market tanking. The insurance companies were making money investing premium money during the bull market. Once the market tanked, the insurance companies needed to raise premiums to make up the difference.


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## Koa Man (Feb 3, 2004)

The stock market is going way up. The one stock I own went from $31 to $44 per share in one year. I don't see insurance rates coming down.


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## NeTree (Feb 3, 2004)

Buying insurance is like being married...


They lose, YOU lose...

They win, You STILL lose...


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## ORclimber (Feb 3, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Koa Man _
> *The stock market is going way up. The one stock I own went from $31 to $44 per share in one year. I don't see insurance rates coming down. *



Lag time? My brother in law is a partner in a small agency, He's been ?????ing since 2000. Hasn't seemed to interfere too much with his 6 figure lifestyle though. 

I gave up on the stock market in '99 after doubling money in 2 companies that had never made a dime(Epitope and Agritope). And losing money on a profitable company with a temporary image problem(HBOC McKesson).


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## blaire576 (Apr 3, 2006)

Yellowdog said:


> Just a question for some of the business owners.
> What do you pay on average for liability insurance, equipment insurance (truck liability/collision for 30k 1ton flatbed) and insurance on your chipper or loaders?



im not an insurance expert but try http://www.insurancepaylite.com might help with your concerns..


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## trevmcrev (Apr 3, 2006)

I would have thought with people in the US ready to sue you for just about anything that you would be insured to the hilt but most of your coverages seem low to me. I have $10,000,000 public liability/3rd party/property damage and $1,000,000 Professional indeminity insurance costing about $3000 a year.
Then theres the trucks, chipper, stumpers,cars etc. about $5000 per year.
Then Workers Compensation insurance about $4000 per year.
Trev


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## blaire576 (Apr 3, 2006)

trevmcrev said:


> I would have thought with people in the US ready to sue you for just about anything that you would be insured to the hilt but most of your coverages seem low to me. I have $10,000,000 public liability/3rd party/property damage and $1,000,000 Professional indeminity insurance costing about $3000 a year.
> Then theres the trucks, chipper, stumpers,cars etc. about $5000 per year.
> Then Workers Compensation insurance about $4000 per year.
> Trev



wow! man! thats big! i wonder if you could still sleep with that big!


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## Dadatwins (Apr 3, 2006)

Just changed carriers, 1 million liability, sole prop, owner operator, no employees $875.00, equipment , stump grinder, saws covered by inland marine policy 15K replacement value $150.00 annual. 
I turned down the extra $300.00 in terrorist insurance also. Think the cost is ridiculus. I read through the paperwork and the scary thing is what we think of terrorism and the insurance company think are two different things. We think of turban headed extremist blowing stuff up, but any act like a gunshot at the equipment that pops a fuel tank and blows up the equipment would fall under the terrorism clause and be a denied claim. Someone has a fit of road rage and drives his or her car into your work building, could fall under this new terrorism clause. Terrorism clause another way for the insurance industry to deny claims that they would have automatically paid out in the past. Really s*cks


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## Nickrosis (Apr 3, 2006)

Good points about the terrorism. I would hate to own a "targeted" business or building.

Vehicles have full coverage for $20,000/year or about $900/vehicle/year. Very reasonable. We stomach the little stuff but can sleep at night knowing a truck could roll on I-94 without putting us out of business. We've observed a drop in incidents after bringing in OSHA for voluntary reviews, DATCP for critiques, our own insurance company's loss control person, and requiring a post-incident drug test.

The money saved on insurance goes straight back to all of us. I just feel bad for my parents who pay $2000/month on health insurance premiums.


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