# wedges



## VTclimber

Not an injury to me, but to one of my co-irkers. He was teaching a chainsaw course to some newbs and was driving a wedge in his backcut. The wedge flew back out at him and hit him square in the face between his eyes. 20 stitches. An inch or so in any direction and he'd have eye, nose, or tooth injuries. Its pretty gnarly looking, but my real reason for posting is to find out how common this is. I've never seen a wedge fly out of a cut like this must have to cause such an injury. Does anyone have experience with something like this happening?


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## A100HVA

he struck the wedge too hard and it bounced back out of the cut in tree.
don't hit it so hard it will work better.


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## VTclimber

it would seem to me that there would need to be more force involved than just oddly striking the wedge. his face is pretty messed up.


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## Wismer

Use WINTER wedges with the cleats on them, it should help a bit


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## clearance

Hit him between the eyes??? WTF? Where was the backcut, at face hieght I guess, whatever, stand with your head above the wedge, and if you are hitting it with an axe, you will be standing to one side, where you should be anyways. And this guy was teaching people, great.


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## VTclimber

yeah well no one ever said he "should" have been teaching. its kinda a long story as to why he was. I'm not really sure of the exact situation, since I wasn't there. Just trying to get a feel for how common something like this is. thanks all!


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## tawilson

The question was has anybody have any experience with the wedge flying out of the backcut. I've wondered about this myself. Apparently no one has ever seen it happen?


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## clearance

tawilson said:


> The question was has anybody have any experience with the wedge flying out of the backcut. I've wondered about this myself. Apparently no one has ever seen it happen?



Yes I have seen it, a few times, that is why you don't stand there looking right at it, just like you don't look right down on your bar when you are bucking.


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## tawilson

clearance said:


> Yes I have seen it, a few times, that is why you don't stand there looking right at it, just like you don't look right down on your bar when you are bucking.



Did it happen when the wedge was being hit, or did it just squirt backwards by itself?


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## clearance

tawilson said:


> Did it happen when the wedge was being hit, or did it just squirt backwards by itself?



Hitting it, often happens when you stack wedges as well.


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## tawilson

I'm just wondering what the chances are of having one pop out when wedging a tree over and having the tree come back and doing crazy things. I've never had it happen to me, but I have thought about it.


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## clearance

Its a good idea to use two wedges, hit them one after the other. You need to have three wedges always, at least three. If you have to stack, one will hold while you put the others together.


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## tawilson

clearance said:


> Its a good idea to use two wedges, hit them one after the other. You need to have three wedges always, at least three. If you have to stack, one will hold while you put the others together.


Good advice, thanks.


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## FSburt

*Dangerous Wedges*

I have been hit once on the chin with a piece of a wedge that flew back and hit me in the chin. At the time I didnt think I was cut that bad so I went back to cutting and while bucking blood dripped down on my saw so I went back to the truck to see how bad it was and it had tore open my chin. I bandaged it up and went back to work and now have a scar for my decision not to get it stiched up. Oh well its not like my mug is going to be on TV or anything. MY mistake was not hitting my wedges sqaurely, I had hit them at kinda downward/side angle and it snapped the wedge in half and it flew back and hit me. Another close call was with Hard Head wedges. One of my coworkers was working up a backleaning tree and was hitting on a wedge pretty solidly but he was not hittting it square and bling the whole metal piece broke and shot back towards me and missed my head by a good 5 ft. Luckily I was standing off to the side or else Iwould have been pretty f%**($#up because I would have been hit square in the face. Pretty sketchy stuff. The main reason I see cutters have issues with wedges if not hitting them squarely and starting a set of doubles way too soon. I will not start a set of doubles until I have a set of singles almost all the way buried so the kerf is opened up quite a bit. Using some K&H single taper are good wedges to work as doubles because they have a slim taper and mate well to get into a kerf.


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## clearance

FSburt said:


> The main reason I see cutters have issues with wedges if not hitting them squarely and starting a set of doubles way too soon. I will not start a set of doubles until I have a set of singles almost all the way buried so the kerf is opened up quite a bit. Using some K&H single taper are good wedges to work as doubles because they have a slim taper and mate well to get into a kerf.


Very good point.


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## smokechase II

*wedges getting revenge*

One thing I've heard is that cutting with 58 or 63 gauge is better because the slightly wider kerf is so much easier to work with wedging.

Starting your wedge as soon as you can, prior to any set-back is obvious. 

I hate to say this, but the boring back-cut, aka open face Scandinavian stuff, can have an advantage here. On a back leaner bore near the hinge and cut toward the rear - SOP, establish your insurance wedges snuggly by the hinge, (don't drive them hard there or you'll get the pop out or damage the hinge), prior to finishing the rear cuts if space allows. The reason this can be of value is that you stop any set-back and can get your wedges started with a kerf that is high enough to accept a wedge.

Back cuts prior to face cuts, generally, will not settle as fast on most trees as a standard back cut after the face. Clearance was pointing out their advantage recently. 

Wedges that don't angle as sharply are easier to start. Maybe you should carry a couple different types of wedges. First with the flat one, even though it will not work on a smaller tree.

The points about wedges side by side, working as a team and sure stikes are important.


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## smokechase II

*wedging stuff again*

There is a point when you're starting a wedge and it just feels too tight and that you are about to get it to pop out or maybe even break it.

1) Stop,
2) New plan.

If you're in that situation consider putting your bar part way back in the back cut kerf and cutting out. Put a gentle angled pressure on the bar to slightly widen the kerf. Have the bar cutting at a non-kickback angle.
Think about which side you do this on. DO NOT widen the entire back cut kerf if you will just get your bar pinched etc.

Now get a wedge going and lifting there. Then back to an unwidened portion of the back cut kerf for the next wedge and you are where you should be.

Practice this on a short tree or stump where your focus on what you're learning will not interfere with awareness of the world above you.


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## treebogan

*Stacking wedges*

I've had wedges pop out of back cut many times,somtimes straight into my shin!When I feel like I need some extra jacking power,I'll have one wedge started,then perhaps at the "six o'clock" from the Scarf (face cut) bore intowards the Scarf,under my backcut a couple of inches under the back cut.Place a wedge in the bottom cut,another in the back cut and drive both together.This has the effect of three wedges in hight as the wood above the bottom wedge pops up and you really get some jacking power.I am felling some large Spruce today and will try and post some photos.Can anyone tell me how to do this as this site always tells me my photos are too large.


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## tawilson

This link will take you to Windows Powertoys download page. The image resizer lets you right click on an image and make a copy resized to whatever you want. 640X480 works good for me. There's some other neat programs there too.
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx


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## Gologit

tawilson said:


> I'm just wondering what the chances are of having one pop out when wedging a tree over and having the tree come back and doing crazy things. I've never had it happen to me, but I have thought about it.



It can happen. FS Burt made a good point about starting a wedge too soon but you can also start, or try to start, way too late. If you wait too late you'll have to beat the hell out of the wedge and that's when accidents happen. Most of the wedge accidents I've seen (and had happen to me) were because of hitting the wedge too hard and not hitting it squarely. And if a wedge ever spits out of the back-cut and that tree starts to move...well, just get out of there. Quick.


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## Dennis Cahoon

If you're doubling up wedges try putting a small thin layer of dirt in between both wedges.


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## VTclimber

Thanks for all the good responses. I appreciate it.


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## treebogan

*flat batteries*

Sorry,bloody camera had flat batterie's on saturday.There'll be another time!Thanks for the info on the resizing programm!!


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## sawsong

if you're concerned about the tree sitting back, and depending on size of tree, use a split level back cut. make your first cut from the right hand side of the tree, pushing chain, horizontal, no more than an inch above the bottom of the sink cut, and cut across 2/3 of the tree diameter leaving a decent hinge.

due to the 3rd remaining behind the sink/scarf/face/whatever, the tree cannot sit back. you should also be able to get a bar, lever, wedge, etc in the perfect 6 o clock position in the cut so as to get some pressure on in the right direction.

next, make your final cut, from the left of the tree, making sure not to get in your danger zones, pulling chain, with the nose angled down slightly so that it slightly undercuts the original cut, and takes out the remaining 3rd up to the hinge. reason for the undercut being if you use a felling lever, there is no steel object in the same cut as the saw chain.

since the wedge is already in the first cut, the weight can go onto it, but the tree cannot physically sit back. now wedge or lever it over to your heart's content


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## clearance

sawsong said:


> if you're concerned about the tree sitting back, and depending on size of tree, use a split level back cut. make your first cut from the right hand side of the tree, pushing chain, horizontal, no more than an inch above the bottom of the sink cut, and cut across 2/3 of the tree diameter leaving a decent hinge.
> 
> due to the 3rd remaining behind the sink/scarf/face/whatever, the tree cannot sit back. you should also be able to get a bar, lever, wedge, etc in the perfect 6 o clock position in the cut so as to get some pressure on in the right direction.
> 
> next, make your final cut, from the left of the tree, making sure not to get in your danger zones, pulling chain, with the nose angled down slightly so that it slightly undercuts the original cut, and takes out the remaining 3rd up to the hinge. reason for the undercut being if you use a felling lever, there is no steel object in the same cut as the saw chain.
> 
> since the wedge is already in the first cut, the weight can go onto it, but the tree cannot physically sit back. now wedge or lever it over to your heart's content



Why not just put in the backcut first, hell of a lot easier.


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## joesawer

VTclimber, you are right about the force of the wedge being spit out. As you wedge the tree over it sways forward and back. This puts pulses of pressure on the wedge. This is easily seen on the psi gauge of a tree jack. The rhythm of the tree swaying can really work for you when advancing wedges. For some reason, especially on small trees, striking the wedge at the wrong time in this rhythm will couse the wedge to spit out with extreme force. I had one spit out and hit my index finger wrapped around the ax handle hard enough that it tore the skin off the back and you could see the tendon in the back of my finger.


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## CoreyTMorine

Clearance, 

Ekka has some video of the split level back cut, it works good if you don’t have enough diameter to get the saw back into the cut without hitting the wedge.

And like Treebogan’s two cut technique the broken wood between the two cuts really locks the wedge in place and seems to give some more lift. It’s like the fibers of the broken wood compress when you hit the wedge and then push up a little once the wedge is set in. 

I was falling trees on Friday, it was windy. This 14” DBA red or chestnut oak set back hard. I tried to drive a wedge in at the 4 o’clock position, and on my 2nd or 3rd swing that wedge went flying. Good reason to wear a face screen.


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## clearance

CoreyTMorine said:


> Clearance,
> 
> Ekka has some video of the split level back cut, it works good if you don’t have enough diameter to get the saw back into the cut without hitting the wedge



I have seen this video, I just put in the backcut first, tap in a wedge, put in the undercut and drive the wedge, like I said, a hell of a lot easier.


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## kbiv

Heres a stupid one. I was helping one of my team buck a log and we were using wedges to keep from pinching. I tapped the wedge in and backed off, but not off line. He finished the cut, the wedge dropped onto the running chain and hit me in the chin. Maybe those full-face shields aren't too silly after all...


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## A100HVA

kbiv said:


> Heres a stupid one. I was helping one of my team buck a log and we were using wedges to keep from pinching. I tapped the wedge in and backed off, but not off line. He finished the cut, the wedge dropped onto the running chain and hit me in the chin. Maybe those full-face shields aren't too silly after all...



sounds like you could appreciate my little peltor display of product





and my little wedge display


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## clearance

Hey, what the hell happened to the dogs on that Husky in the pic?


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## kennertree

clearance said:


> Hey, what the hell happened to the dogs on that Husky in the pic?



Like everything else on a husky, it fell off.


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## tawilson

kennertree said:


> Like everything else on a husky, it fell off.



You're just being hurtful now.


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## SawTroll

clearance said:


> Hey, what the hell happened to the dogs on that Husky in the pic?




Looks like they were replaced by a distanse plate, without teeth - makes perfect sense to me.......:yoyo: :yoyo:


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## A100HVA

clearance said:


> Hey, what the hell happened to the dogs on that Husky in the pic?


i try and get my customers NOT TO FORCE A DULL CHAIN TO CUT so i remove the dawgs and put on smooth bumpers,EVERYBODY KNOWS dawgs are for the horizontal position,but are loved in the vertical position.
and besides real woodcutters that know how to file a sawchain don't need dawgs


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## A100HVA

kennertree said:


> Like everything else on a husky, it fell off.



no you are confused its the sthil's that fall apart


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## clearance

A100HVA said:


> i try and get my customers NOT TO FORCE A DULL CHAIN TO CUT so i remove the dawgs and put on smooth bumpers,EVERYBODY KNOWS dawgs are for the horizontal position,but are loved in the vertical position.
> and besides real woodcutters that know how to file a sawchain don't need dawgs



Thats one of the craziest things I have heard here. By far, I turfed the lame dogs that came with my 371 and put on some good ones. Dogs are for use wherever they can help, actually.


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## A100HVA

SawTroll said:


> Looks like they were replaced by a distanse plate, without teeth - makes perfect sense to me.......:yoyo: :yoyo:



thanks troll 

oh,while i'm here do you think that new saw you got (339) would cut better with 91 vs chain ?

the old ones i got in stock here have 95vp (very clubby)


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## GASoline71

A100HVA said:


> i try and get my customers NOT TO FORCE A DULL CHAIN TO CUT so i remove the dawgs and put on smooth bumpers,EVERYBODY KNOWS dawgs are for the horizontal position,but are loved in the vertical position.
> and besides real woodcutters that know how to file a sawchain don't need dawgs



That there is funny... whatever. Tell that to a PNW faller... You have no clue how dogs work then.

Gary


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## SawTroll

A100HVA said:


> thanks troll
> 
> oh,while i'm here do you think that new saw you got (339) would cut better with 91 vs chain ?
> 
> the old ones i got in stock here have 95vp (very clubby)



I hardly think so, as there will be fewer teeth working in the relativly small wood it is meant for.

So far, I think the 95VP is just perfect......


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## A100HVA

SawTroll said:


> I hardly think so, as there will be fewer teeth working in the relativly small wood it is meant for.
> 
> So far, I think the 95VP is just perfect......



if you ever get a chance to try 91VS give it a try
you might change your opinion


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## A100HVA

clearance said:


> Hey, what the hell happened to the dogs on that Husky in the pic?



here's a new shipment of "little fellers" gettin' a trim before gettin' put on the shelf fer sale 

i realize that different spots around the world need spikes
but around here aint one of 'um 

http://s116.photobucket.com/albums/o8/WILLIAMFGREENE/?action=view&current=jim-dandy.flv


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## SawTroll

A100HVA said:


> if you ever get a chance to try 91VS give it a try
> you might change your opinion



I will keep it in mind!  

Do you suggest 6 or 7-pin rim for that size of saw?



A100HVA said:


> here's a new shipment of "little fellers" gettin' a trim before gettin' put on the shelf fer sale
> 
> i realize that different spots around the world need spikes
> but around here aint one of 'um ....



Not around here either, usually, and then only on larger saws.


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## A100HVA

Do you suggest 6 or 7-pin rim for that size of saw?



7t spur should work just fine


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## SawTroll

A100HVA said:


> ..
> 7t spur should work just fine



Are there no (small 7-spline) rims in that size?


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## A100HVA

no rims that you can run 3/8 lo-pro on that i am aware of:monkey: 
that why 7t spur:hmm3grin2orange:


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## PA Plumber

A100HVA said:


> here's a new shipment of "little fellers" gettin' a trim before gettin' put on the shelf fer sale
> 
> i realize that different spots around the world need spikes
> but around here aint one of 'um
> 
> http://s116.photobucket.com/albums/o8/WILLIAMFGREENE/?action=view&current=jim-dandy.flv
> 
> 
> 
> Awww Mannn. Those saw are all bark and NO BITE. They've been declawed!


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## smokechase II

*horrible*

That sound was just pure torture.


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## BostonBull

Just noticed this thread.

I had this happen about 1.5 years ago. Wedging over a big Black Cherry. Was driving 3 wedges stacked 2" apart, with bore cuts and one with my original cut. I started them all, and drove home the bottom two. I started the third which was in my back cut, and it would stay in. I got VERY frustrated and gave it a good three whacks. On the second whack it backed out a little but I didn't notice. My adrenaline was going, and I was angry. I hit it the third time with everything I had. The wedge popped out, hit me sideway on the point of my chin. Knocked me out! I awoke on my hands and knees to my buddy asking are you OK? I remember looking down and seeing a pool of blood under me, and thinking look at the situation and answer that dumb question yourself.

I cleaned it up, got the tree on the ground, limbed it up (everything was staying), got paid and drove myself to the hospital for 6 stitches.

Not fun! Less is more with wedges.


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## lees trees

*always with me*

I got a nice little bag in all trucks with the same wedges and maul and several blocks 2 2x4 and 2 4x4 these are convenient and no need to stack wedges


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## clearance

lees trees said:


> I got a nice little bag in all trucks with the same wedges and maul and several blocks 2 2x4 and 2 4x4 these are convenient and no need to stack wedges



WTF?


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## lees trees

one of us may not understand. were we useing wedges to fell and some of those wedges pop out when stacked help me out clearance


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## BostonBull

I am confused too. What are the blocks of wood for? And why not stack wedges? When done properly, like anything else, it is perfectly safe.


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## Mitchell

*axe weight*

I don't think it has been mentioned that axe wieght plays a role in wedges spitting. Previously when I felled timber in the mountians of BC, I tryed to get away with carrying as little wieght as possible with me. I soon found to little wieght on the axe seemd to spit wedges more often then with heavier axes, mainly due striking harder and less accuratly. Any one else noticed the role axe wieght plays? 
Incidently a few years ago I was in oregon and california falling trees on a large fire and noticed the local fire fighter hot shot guys were carrying what can only be described as battle axes with the mandate to put a wedge in every tree regardless of lean. THese axes were massive with three foot long handles; is that normal for that part of the world. I would think that axe would snap wedges in half. I have noticed the stihl wedges snap more then others...


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## PA Plumber

I have been using the green wedges from Bailey's. Have not had any problems with them so far. Also use their 3 lb. rafting axe (That axe swings nice but have yet to get one with the handle installed properly into the head). 

I have noticed that if I can keep the hinge about 1 1/2" to 1" thick, the tree wedges over a lot easier than if I leave a 2", or larger, hinge.

Also, I used to stack hinges at 90 degrees. Tends to bend over the tips. Now, I just stack them going the same direction and keep all body parts out of the way. Have not had any pop out yet.


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## joesawer

I am totally confused about the 2x4 and 4x4 also. It sounds like an over active imagination to me.
Mitchell, please do not confuse anything hotshots do or use as normal for production fallers.


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## smokechase II

*boards*

I like to use 2" x 6" glue lams over stacked wedges.

I'm confused now, what did I just say?


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## PA Plumber

smokechase II said:


> I like to use 2" x 6" glue lams over stacked wedges.
> 
> I'm confused now, what did I just say?



Something about building a shed out of two by sixes for your sheep? Not sure why the lambs would need stacked wedges though. Unless it's some sort of feed delivery system.:monkey:


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## A100HVA

here's another use for felling wedge's  




:monkey:


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## lees trees

*sorry for confusion*

I use wedges often but there are those times when i may not have any or not enough and have to do without or get creative I have found that when its time to stack wedges its safer to use a piece of lumber as as a spacer as to not change the pitch of wedge. on large trees a variaty is nice I keep them in a easy to carry bags in each truck so I'm never without.


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## Mitchell

*2x4 wedging*

If I am not mistaken a100 I believe you have stolen lees trees Idea and used a 2x4 in conjunction with your wedge to prop up the desk in your picture; could be intellectual property right issues in dispute here!


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## A100HVA




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## rreidnauer

Hmmmm, sliced and diced facial features, skinned to the bone fingers, makes me wonder a bit. Does everyone strip off their helmets, facesheilds, gloves and such when they hit the off switch on their saws?

Seems most of the unintentional self-performed surguries could be avoided by simply keeping the PPE on until the job is done.


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## jrparbor04

A100HVA said:


> here's another use for felling wedge's
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :monkey:


AND WHERE ARE THE CORRECT TOOLS?????


ALWAYS USE WEDGES,,,WHY HAVE A TOOL THAT HELPS TO INSURE THE JOB THAN NOT USE A TOOL AND LOSE THE JOB UNPROFESSIONAL


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## CoreyTMorine

clearance said:


> I have seen this video, I just put in the backcut first, tap in a wedge, put in the undercut and drive the wedge, like I said, a hell of a lot easier.



Well it’s been a month or so now and I have been trying to find a tree to use that two stage back-cut in, no luck so far. Every time I run into a situation where I consider such a thing it only takes a moments thought to conclude that a back-cut first would be the better option. 

So Clearence, I guess that you are correct in this matter, go figure. Thanks for taking the time to question things.

By the way, how is the hand? 

A buddy of mine cut his foot pretty bad 5 or 6 months ago, he’s back to work but with a serious limp and no eagerness to do any cutting.


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## clearance

Its better, thanks.


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## PA Plumber

*Stacked wedges*

Hope you all don't mind too much if I drag this thread back up.

I had a pretty decent leaner today and was able to get it over by stacking two 10" wedges close to the hinge. It is by far the most extreme I have tried so far. 

I don't feel comfortable trying this on a dead tree, but Eastern Hemlock seems to hold to the hingewood extremely well.


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## smokechase II

*Dead wood is more brittle*

I would suggest avoiding that as much as possible.

For the most part, wedges near the hinge should just be "insurance policies".
Placed snug, but not with so much pressure as to pop the hinge. 

Sometimes you can bore just under the wedge, in the center of the back-cut, that didn't get the job done for you and drive another wedge just below the first.

This set up will not lift as much as two regularly stacked wedges. But it might work for you.

If you do that again, just make sure you have alternate escape routes ready and have made a plan on a spinning tree scenario.

I'm pretty sure from your wording you understand this already. Just felt like generating some verbiage.


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## PA Plumber

smokechase II said:


> I would suggest avoiding that as much as possible.
> 
> For the most part, wedges near the hinge should just be "insurance policies".
> Placed snug, but not with so much pressure as to pop the hinge.
> 
> Sometimes you can bore just under the wedge, in the center of the back-cut, that didn't get the job done for you and drive another wedge just below the first.
> 
> This set up will not lift as much as two regularly stacked wedges. But it might work for you.
> 
> If you do that again, just make sure you have alternate escape routes ready and have made a plan on a spinning tree scenario.
> 
> I'm pretty sure from your wording you understand this already. Just felt like generating some verbiage.




I reread my post and saw I left out that the Eastern Hemlock was a live tree. I had double stacked wedges buried in two places in the backcut (at 5 o'clock and 7 o'clock). I stacked a set near the hinge to get it to "tip." 

If you bore in the backcut to place another wedge, could this be done in addition to a pair of stacked wedges already in place above the borecut? 

I normally only need one wedge partially driven near the hinge (if any) just for tipping purposes. This tree just happened to have a lot of lean the wrong direction. If the tree would have tipped the wrong way, I could easily have gotten the track loader in to pull it out. I have a couple of trees like this near a public road and a power line. I won't be felling those trees.


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## CoreyTMorine

:monkey: Maybe a 2 x 4 would have helped?

I will sometimes stick a wedge in just behind the hinge if there is lean or limb weight putting downpreasure on that side of the tree. By taking weight off of the hingewood it seems that the hinge works more like it should. I don't know though, am i just wasting my time by doing this?

There are also a couple of steel wedges in my bag, 8# splitting wedges i think, they seem to have more lift than plastic. The older ones seem to work better than the new one i bought, i think the paint makes it more prone to back out of the cut. I'm going to wire wheel all the paint off and let it rust up a little.

As for lifting close to the hinge, that sounds like alot of work, and kind of spooky. Would a "felling bar" have worked for that last little push? Has anyone out there ever used a felling bar? They look kind of handy, but in a kitchen gadget sort of way. Looks good on the counter, but never gets used.


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## joesawer

PA Plumber- Imo the two wedges close to the hinge can be ok if the tree is already stood up and almost ready to tip over. Just be very aware of how difficult they are to drive and remember that they are lifting in order to move the tree forward some times it is definitely better to push or pull a tree.
CoreyT- Steel wedges give a lot more lift than plastic wedges, but splitting wedge geometry is all wrong. The angle of lift is too fast and the load bearing surface is too small. I have two old single bit ax heads in my box that I have used for wedges on rare occasions. They give treamendous lift as they have a very fine taper and don't absorb very much of the driving force. They can also be driven into a closed kerf much easier. But they are also a pita to carry around in the woods so they almost always stay in the box. I've have used them twice in the past two years. One of them has rust pitting on the surface and really grips good.
When using steel wedged be very careful. Keep the head crowned and inspect for cracks. I have a small piece of steel in my cheek from a mushroomed splitting wedge that I was using at the ripe old age of 9.
If a back cut has opened enough to use a 2x4 for a shim to wedge and hasn't tipped over yet imo the hinge is way to thick or it is leaning beyond the capabilities of a wedge any way.


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## lees trees

when I'm felling a tree lets say a really big tree that needs convincing to go toward the drop zone and my customer and his neighbor who cut trees when he was younger but never climbed try to help with verbal encouragement. are you sure looks too big, rotten huh, want to pull it with my 4x4, do you know soandso. it wont hit me.. Well I better not screw up. Kinda lonely all by myself with all eyes on me. I have more than I need right there, stack of wedges and some 1x4s and 2x4s so I don't come up short... Tree goes right best they ever seen. what would they say if it didn't?


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## John Ellison

lees trees said:


> when I'm felling a tree lets say a really big tree that needs convincing to go toward the drop zone and my customer and his neighbor who cut trees when he was younger but never climbed try to help with verbal encouragement. are you sure looks too big, rotten huh, want to pull it with my 4x4, do you know soandso. it wont hit me.. Well I better not screw up. Kinda lonely all by myself with all eyes on me. I have more than I need right there, stack of wedges and some 1x4s and 2x4s so I don't come up short... Tree goes right best they ever seen. what would they say if it didn't?



They would say you should of had a 6x6, cause that is what they used when they fell timber.


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## Gologit

John Ellison said:


> They would say you should of had a 6x6, cause that is what they used when they fell timber.



LOL...Yup, theres always comments after you screw up. Trouble is, some of them are accurate.


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## CoreyTMorine

joesawer said:


> CoreyT- Steel wedges give a lot more lift than plastic wedges, but splitting wedge geometry is all wrong. The angle of lift is too fast and the load bearing surface is too small. I have two old single bit ax heads in my box that I have used for wedges on rare occasions. They give treamendous lift as they have a very fine taper and don't absorb very much of the driving force.



Doesn't the eye get all deformed?


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## lees trees

boboak said:


> LOL...Yup, theres always comments after you screw up. Trouble is, some of them are accurate.



yea better know for sure before you cut. we bet alot on what we do


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## joesawer

CoreyTMorine said:


> Doesn't the eye get all deformed?



No they are old high quality ax heads, the eye is far enough from the flat back to be protected. If the eye got messed up that easily it would also get deformed when mounted on a handle. I think that mushrooming is much more of a problem. Also I use them very rarely.


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## CoreyTMorine

Thanks Joe,

Your right about the splitting wedges having the wrong shape, the only reason i can lift more with them is that i can pound them so much harder. Been kind of looking for a better alternative, but I've been using these since i was a kid, driving wedges for my dad.


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## gdn

A100HVA said:


> here's another use for felling wedge's
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :monkey:


Where does one find this wedge? I'll also need an axe sized to swing at it :greenchainsaw: :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


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## 2dogs

Sorry about necroposting but thus seems like a good thread. I'm glad the injured parties, all of you are, are OK now. Scary stuff.

My pouch normally carries 2-8" wedges and 2-10" wedges and I mostly use a 4lb rafting axe with a 28" helve. Back in the truck is a dozen or more spares, hardheads, 5", 7 1/2-8", more 10", and some 12" heavy lifters. I wish I had a Silvey jack but 2K is too much to slip by my wife.

I also have had a wedge or 2 pop out though I have not been hit by one. I can say there have been many instances where I could not hit the wedge square on or place it low to the ground. Or it got hit by the chain. I don't think wedges last long when I sawing.  

What brand wedge do you guys use. I use mostly the blue wedge from Madsen's and I buy a box at a time in 10". I have used Double Taper and K & H but they are expensive. The Black Bear wedges are really nice to stack up but the head is small and easy to damage. I think I'll try more of the green Bailey's next. What say you.

Oh, and grinding the spikes off the Huskies? What am I missing. That just seams to me to be food for the lawyers if there is an accident. The dogs are part of the saw's safety equipment if nothing else. Why not use for bucking?


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## PA Plumber

"Snip"



2dogs said:


> The Black Bear wedges are really nice to stack up but the head is small and easy to damage. I think I'll try more of the green Bailey's next. What say you.




I like the Bailey's 10" green wedges. I haven't been doing this long enough to have tried lots of different types though. I don't care for the yellow ones with the guide ridges. Nice for stacking, but the leading edge, near the guide ridge, tends to break off extremely easily.

One thing about the green ones, if the head gets a little "smooshed" I just take the saw and clean up the edges a little. The wedge is ready to go again in less than 30 seconds.


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## 2dogs

I generally steal my horse's rasp when he isn't looking for cleaning up a wedge but a Surform tool works well too.


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## Saw Bones

*Wedges popping out*

I am new here, infact this is my first post. My job is mostly safety related, as well as treating injuries. All of you have a lot more experience felling trees, cutting wood etc. than I have, which is why I am here. (To learn and take advantage of your experience)

From What I have read it seems that wedges popping out and striking workers is not a totally uncommon thing. My first thought is why not wear face protection?

I use safety chaps, and a hard hat with ear plugs and a full face shield any time I am working with a saw or brush cutter. Partly because I am very much allergic to poision ivy and I want to keep it out of my face, and partly to keep other things from hitting me in the face.

Some one said something about looking silly with all that stuff on. To me silly is being injured because you did not take advantage of safety equipment. You can't replace an eye, or a life. The results of an injury can affect you and your family for the rest of your life.

The dangers of your job are very real, from falling trees and limbs to spring backs from stressed limbs, not to mention the Saws, and falling from trees. Folks are killed and injured every day. Nothing silly about that.

Work safe, and come home at the end of the day with all the pieces attached and working.


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## PA Plumber

You know, I could take a good safety "lesson" every day of the week and not even have it phase me. 

I do where safety glasses, chaps, hearing protection, and a hard hat. It's too bad I needed a few close calls to be a safety advocate.

Haven't been hit by by a wedge spitting out. Sure it's bound to happen. Have had them spit, just haven't been nailed... yet.


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## Canyonbc

Doesnt add up...but i guess just another reason to where a helmet....


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## Gologit

Medic 184 said:


> I am new here, infact this is my first post.
> 
> The dangers of your job are very real, from falling trees and limbs to spring backs from stressed limbs, not to mention the Saws, and falling from trees. Folks are killed and injured every day. Nothing silly about that.
> 
> Work safe, and come home at the end of the day with all the pieces attached and working.



Good post but most of us are very aware of the dangers of our job. Before you begin to lecture us you might spend some time reading posts and threads. There are some very savvy people here and ,while we appreciate the thought behind your post, we don't need to be bombarded with unsolicited advice. Theres one danger that you didn't mention...the danger of starving to death trying to make a living at anything to do with trees.  Welcome to AS...it's a great place.


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## Saw Bones

boboak said:


> Good post but most of us are very aware of the dangers of our job. Before you begin to lecture us you might spend some time reading posts and threads. There are some very savvy people here and ,while we appreciate the thought behind your post, we don't need to be bombarded with unsolicited advice. Theres one danger that you didn't mention...the danger of starving to death trying to make a living at anything to do with trees.  Welcome to AS...it's a great place.



Sir I did not mean to sound like I was lecturing. I know that in my job a fresh pair of eyes often sees dangers that we walk around every day and dont notice. I surely ment no disrespect at all. If I didn't respect you I would not be here trying to learn from you. 

I apologize if I ruffled any feathers.


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## Gologit

Medic 184 said:


> Sir I did not mean to sound like I was lecturing. I know that in my job a fresh pair of eyes often sees dangers that we walk around every day and dont notice. I surely ment no disrespect at all. If I didn't respect you I would not be here trying to learn from you.
> 
> I apologize if I ruffled any feathers.



No feathers ruffled and certainly no apology needed. I appreciate the spirit in which your post was offered. And welcome again to AS. Bob


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## 2dogs

I wear Rx safety glasses, generally RecSpecs, all the time. I also have Bugz and I used to have a shield for my hard hat, the name of which escapes me right now, and sometimes a helmet system. The systems are too fragile for me and I don't always want a full shield esp when driving wedges. I like a clear view all the way to the head, just like hitting a baseball. 

Hearing protection...of course. Foam plugs and sometimes muffs over the top. I also wear chaps when limbing and brush cutting, but not falling as they slow me down and the straps catch on things. Gloves always, long sleeves when it isn't too hot. Generally a hickory shirt but maybe an orange Stihl cut resistant shirt. I want to get some orange t-shirts from Madsen's to wear a a crew shirt, more visible than my other t-shirts by far. White's boots, Prison Blues or Key jeans with suspenders, a Blood Stopper, multi-tool, whistle on the wedge pouch. Very complete first aid kit in the truck (18 years as an EMT). The truck contains enough logging tools to get the job done incl removing hung up trees the can't be cut.

Like most people here I take my safety very seriously. I have been hurt once when a tree twisted on me and sent me to the hospital. Nothing serious but derned close to it. The same safety gear doesn't work for everyone including that helmet system many people are fond of. PPE will never help a man with no common sense.

Yesterday I bought 2 wedges with barbs, can't remember the name, that I'll try out in the next week or two.


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