# Could i have been electricuted?



## scarygary92 (May 5, 2017)

I'm not educated about powerlines, I'd like to learn more but I cant find anything online; I'm considering going to work for a clearance company for a few months to gain some perspective. But anyway I was trimming an oak tree a few months ago and remember there being a thin green copper line running threw a large crotch and touching the tree. It looked like it was only 3/16-1/4" thick, I'm curious to know how much voltage potential it had but I assumed it was hot and made sure to not touch it with my hands and just used a pole saw to remove branches that were hanging on it. my rope touched it few times and I got with-in about 3' of it at one point, I just didn't think nothing of it at the time. It wasn't 3 phase as far as i know it was just one thin wire running threw the tree; was i safe because the wire was touching the tree therefore grounding it? and if someone could drop some knowledge about powerlines and how to work near them that would be great I understand the 10' rule but how to line clearance trimmers work near these lines safely, for example if a branch that needs cut is resting on the lines how to you approach the situation? A guy i work with who used to work for asplundh said you just cut it as fast as you can and hope for the best, not good advice in my opinion.


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## JTM (May 5, 2017)

No my friend you were not safe. Assuming a tree, its branches, or a non-insulated tool, even insulated and di-electric tested but not maintained or used properly, is safe when in contact with a power line is a recipe for disaster. Your opinion is correct regarding "hoping for the best". You really need to get some formal training.


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## scarygary92 (May 5, 2017)

I guess I was just lucky nothing happened. Do you know any websites i could read up on the subject?


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## Marshy (May 5, 2017)

You absolutely could have been killed. Dont take it for granted. Know what the line is and how to stay safe. Google is your friend to start learning.

https://www.google.com/search?q=arb...erizon&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#xxri=1

http://www.treeservicesmagazine.com/arborist-gear/climbing-safety/high-voltage/


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## Mustang71 (May 5, 2017)

Depends what side of the transformer it's on. That sounds small for a "high " voltage line bit still enough to kill you. Make sure you know what lines you are near and which ones you can touch. If you don't know what it is stay away from it.

There's a high school around here where the kids and a coach were moving the uprights on the foot ball field and got it close enough to the high voltage transmission lines above and they got lit up they never touched the lines. 

Know your wires.


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## JTM (May 5, 2017)

Mustang71 said:


> Depends what side of the transformer it's on. That sounds small for a "high " voltage line bit still enough to kill you. Make sure you know what lines you are near and which ones you can touch. If you don't know what it is stay away from it.
> 
> There's a high school around here where the kids and a coach were moving the uprights on the foot ball field and got it close enough to the high voltage transmission lines above and they got lit up they never touched the lines.
> 
> Know your wires.


I remember reading about that on the football field and it was very sad. But let me tell you, even the low side of a transformer will kill you. And if you think that just because lines are de-energized that you are safe you might as well write your eulogy now.


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## Mustang71 (May 5, 2017)

Yea when you think being grounded is a good thing with power lines then you have some things to learn lol if that tree was grounding out the line it would be a short. If you are the ground for a line bad news. You can have an uninsulated copper line fully energized not grounded doing no harm to anything until you become the ground and game over.

It's only scary when you know what lines are what. I've cut many branches off my neighbors line and grabbed the line and whatever but I know what it is. I'm shaky the whole time. It's a secondary line after the transformer. Make a mistake it's about 400 amps or so before the fuse at the pole blows haha. I work construction I'm familiar with electricity.


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## jefflovstrom (May 5, 2017)

Is that why you are 'scarygary92'?
Jeff


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## JTM (May 5, 2017)

There is this little thing called step potential. We've had three folks electrocuted in Alabama this past year swimming next to boat docks that had electrical power. Energized conductors in contact with the water is bad. The voltage radiates out from the source seeking ground. The person in the water might feel nothing when they are standing upright but when they become horizontal then it's the point on no return. Heart fibrillation and uncontrolled muscle contractions equals game over. Same goes for a line across a tree, one part of your body touches and another part touches a distance away and you have a difference in potential and thus current flow. Most people die from falls from being shocked. If the shock is across your heart and you go into fibrillation then you die as well. It doesn't take much, just a few milliamperes. Equipment operators (some) are taught to un-ass their equipment in a very specific way in downed power lines so as to minimize step potential - hand on equipment and foot on ground equals dead, take a step equals dead (you have to bunny hop).


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## ropensaddle (May 5, 2017)

scarygary92 said:


> I'm not educated about powerlines, I'd like to learn more but I cant find anything online; I'm considering going to work for a clearance company for a few months to gain some perspective. But anyway I was trimming an oak tree a few months ago and remember there being a thin green copper line running threw a large crotch and touching the tree. It looked like it was only 3/16-1/4" thick, I'm curious to know how much voltage potential it had but I assumed it was hot and made sure to not touch it with my hands and just used a pole saw to remove branches that were hanging on it. my rope touched it few times and I got with-in about 3' of it at one point, I just didn't think nothing of it at the time. It wasn't 3 phase as far as i know it was just one thin wire running threw the tree; was i safe because the wire was touching the tree therefore grounding it? and if someone could drop some knowledge about powerlines and how to work near them that would be great I understand the 10' rule but how to line clearance trimmers work near these lines safely, for example if a branch that needs cut is resting on the lines how to you approach the situation? A guy i work with who used to work for asplundh said you just cut it as fast as you can and hope for the best, not good advice in my opinion.


Ok firstly, was it coming from a pole to another pole and touching the fork ? Being it was touching the tree its likely it was the neutral or a street light wire. It better not be 3 phase or your power company is run by Jethro Bodine. Line clearance done proper uses ropes placed high and away to pull it clear and lower. Sometimes its necessary to use a foam filled pruner to clear it away some before roping begins. Sometimes jump cuts are a way to get overhang off but they have to be well executed. Line clearance done well does not dance the lines period. Fast cutting can be effective but also must be done right. Seasoned line clearance workers understand staying above the path of least resistance or at minimum out of that path. Completing the circuit is bad news, as humans are not well suited as switches, even though we are near perfect conduits for amperage. Before working near energized conductors you have to be trained it is not a diy thing. Tree work is dangerous enough without throwing in electrical hazard. If you truly want to know about it get the utility arborist study guide and learn. Then at least you will be armed with knowledge of how to remain safe.


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## ropensaddle (May 5, 2017)

JTM said:


> There is this little thing called step potential. We've had three folks electrocuted in Alabama this past year swimming next to boat docks that had electrical power. Energized conductors in contact with the water is bad. The voltage radiates out from the source seeking ground. The person in the water might feel nothing when they are standing upright but when they become horizontal then it's the point on no return. Heart fibrillation and uncontrolled muscle contractions equals game over. Same goes for a line across a tree, one part of your body touches and another part touches a distance away and you have a difference in potential and thus current flow. Most people die from falls from being shocked. If the shock is across your heart and you go into fibrillation then you die as well. It doesn't take much, just a few milliamperes. Equipment operators (some) are taught to un-ass their equipment in a very specific way in downed power lines so as to minimize step potential - hand on equipment and foot on ground equals dead, take a step equals dead (you have to bunny hop).


Step potential is the step voltage between the feet of a person standing near an energized grounded object. It is equal to the difference in voltage, given by the voltage distribution curve, between two points at different distances from the electrode. Induction is another way to become electrocuted by a line not even carrying power but run parallel to it and it will get you. It takes only 1 10th of a volt in 12 volts dc to kill according to my reading. Many including myself have been hit by much more, so my guess is that is special circumstances etc. That being said, they would not say that if incorrect so any contact has the potential of death. In 1983 I was trimming miles of burning lines while in training I was indirectly contacted on several occasions until I learned how to do it without being shocked. Back then the training was not near as safety minded as now and one rule Asplundh had at the time gave me my worst jolt and from that day on i did it my way! They had a rule at that time to use handsaws on all overhang by cutting under the limb and breaking it back. I was doing just that when the gum limb did not break back it broke off with it in my hand and went across all 3 phases and from that day on my rule was to always rope it. I should clarify it was more likely my general foreman's rule not Asplundh


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## JTM (May 5, 2017)

ropensaddle said:


> Step potential is the step voltage between the feet of a person standing near an energized grounded object. It is equal to the difference in voltage, given by the voltage distribution curve, between two points at different distances from the electrode.


Obsolutely correct. Step voltage, touch voltage, tomato, tomaaato, the outcome is the same - current flow.


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## Mustang71 (May 5, 2017)

I've been hit by line voltage many times not so much anymore because u learn but at my house I got hit and blacked out woke up on the ground. I was working on the wood furnace. I have my own transformer all for me 200 amp service at my house and unlimited at the pole there's a disconnect there. It ****** hurt. 

I've been hit by 230v circuit federal Pacific panels before. Blown up screw drivers by those panels. Don't mess with electricity if you don't know what u are doing I can't say that enough.


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## scarygary92 (May 6, 2017)

ropensaddle said:


> Step potential is the step voltage between the feet of a person standing near an energized grounded object. It is equal to the difference in voltage, given by the voltage distribution curve, between two points at different distances from the electrode. Induction is another way to become electrocuted by a line not even carrying power but run parallel to it and it will get you. It takes only 1 10th of a volt in 12 volts dc to kill according to my reading. Many including myself have been hit by much more, so my guess is that is special circumstances etc. That being said, they would not say that if incorrect so any contact has the potential of death. In 1983 I was trimming miles of burning lines while in training I was indirectly contacted on several occasions until I learned how to do it without being shocked. Back then the training was not near as safety minded as now and one rule Asplundh had at the time gave me my worst jolt and from that day on i did it my way! They had a rule at that time to use handsaws on all overhang by cutting under the limb and breaking it back. I was doing just that when the gum limb did not break back it broke off with it in my hand and went across all 3 phases and from that day on my rule was to always rope it. I should clarify it was more likely my general foreman's rule not Asplundh


Thats pretty amazing you survived that! speaking of 12 volts, when i was trying to find a misfire in my car I figured i would just pull the plugs and listen for a change in idle; well I was a dumbarse and pulled the coil wire directly from the distributor while my hand was propping up the metal hood, needless to say I learned a lot about electricity that day. when I was a child i intentionally stuck my finger in a wall outlet to see what would happen. electricity has always facinated me I remember asking my grandma why birds and squirrels could sit on the lines and not get shocked so Somewhere down the line I at least learned powerlines where no joke.


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## scarygary92 (May 6, 2017)

ropensaddle said:


> Ok firstly, was it coming from a pole to another pole and touching the fork ? Being it was touching the tree its likely it was the neutral or a street light wire. It better not be 3 phase or your power company is run by Jethro Bodine. Line clearance done proper uses ropes placed high and away to pull it clear and lower. Sometimes its necessary to use a foam filled pruner to clear it away some before roping begins. Sometimes jump cuts are a way to get overhang off but they have to be well executed. Line clearance done well does not dance the lines period. Fast cutting can be effective but also must be done right. Seasoned line clearance workers understand staying above the path of least resistance or at minimum out of that path. Completing the circuit is bad news, as humans are not well suited as switches, even though we are near perfect conduits for amperage. Before working near energized conductors you have to be trained it is not a diy thing. Tree work is dangerous enough without throwing in electrical hazard. If you truly want to know about it get the utility arborist study guide and learn. Then at least you will be armed with knowledge of how to remain safe.


It was the top wire from pole to pole, and it was connected to insulators at the tops of the poles. I don't remember there being street lights in that community I could be wrong though. but another place in the city I live all the road trees have lines resting in them and they look to be 3 phase i'll try and get a pic one day when i'm in the area, and thanks for the recommendation for the utility arborist study guide, ill look into that.


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## ATH (May 6, 2017)

I strongly recommend TCIA's EHAP (Electrical Hazard Awareness Program). It doesn't certify you to work around lines...it just makes you AWARE of the hazards. (scares you enough to stay the heck away!)

If you want to work around the lines, you need more extensive training, properly certified AND maintained equipment, and another person also qualified on site (that is my understanding...line clearance guys may correct or add to that...)


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## rwoods (May 6, 2017)

SG, just a layman's response - power line in a tree, call the power company. It is their responsibility to maintain safe clearances. Falling a tree that may contact a line, call the power company. Many will fall without charge. 

Always call. They don't want you (or their facilities) hurt any more than you do.

Ron


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## ATH (May 6, 2017)

rwoods said:


> SG, just a layman's response - power line in a tree, call the power company. It is their responsibility to maintain safe clearances. Falling a tree that may contact a line, call the power company. Many will fall without charge.
> 
> Always call. They don't want you (or their facilities) hurt any more than you do.
> 
> Ron


Never hurts to call and ask...but if it is a service drop (from pole to house) around here that is on the homeowner. The distribution lines are on the power company.


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## Mustang71 (May 6, 2017)

Same way here.


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## jefflovstrom (May 6, 2017)

I once was shocked by a phone line, well, buzzed pretty good, 
Jeff


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## Mustang71 (May 6, 2017)

Don't strip phone line with ur teeth it hurts. If anyone wondered lol


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## Westboastfaller (May 6, 2017)

BC Hydro has an easy to learn little hand book that you can download called BC Hydro Utility Tree Workers. (BC Hydro UTW) This is for all non Certified Utility workers that will be commencing work with BC Hydro. After reading_ then we would be asked a few questions by our companies Certifed
Utility Arborists (CUA) then given a ticket. Main things are line identity, Limits of Aproach (LOA) (depending on line kv. Touch & step potential and the difference. Energized zones and the distance you would need to be clear of the point of energy contact to the ground. (Depends on kV) (Hop or shuffle)
They have charts and help with line identity. Having said that, we positively know the Name of the line, the voltage as well pole # per as day play and carry a daily card that states this. Moreover; The CUA with Call in for a ANRP (recourse permit) when trees have potential to come into LOA. An ANRP really just protects the lines. as you can only die once but with out the ANRP the line will keep sending waves of power. After contact instead of blowing the power

LOA is the distance that a worker, their tool and the tree they are cutting; can not enter into.
I believe the 10ft (3metres) is recognized here as a safe LOA From .75kv (750v) to 60kv (60,000v) some lines are 46ft ,(15m) and up to 66ft (20m) with a few lines like the 500kv
The safe distance to be clear from electricity in the ground up to 60kv is 33ft (10m) had somthing gone wrong.
Hop or shuffle out of the energized zone or Wait with your legs together for help. What happened in the football accident is what is known as flash over. The post came into the limits. Flash over can be affected through weather conditions such as fog and rain. Also things like Conductor (line) sag is natural with temp change. Very longs spans of transmission lines are definitely way out of LOA looking from an advantage point in the morning but can sag 100ft in areas in that heat of the day.


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## ropensaddle (May 7, 2017)

scarygary92 said:


> It was the top wire from pole to pole, and it was connected to insulators at the tops of the poles. I don't remember there being street lights in that community I could be wrong though. but another place in the city I live all the road trees have lines resting in them and they look to be 3 phase i'll try and get a pic one day when i'm in the area, and thanks for the recommendation for the utility arborist study guide, ill look into that.


Top wire pole to pole is some sort of single phase primary are they rubbered up ? Some power companies spray on rubber to prevent contact to trees but remember that still is not insulation. If bare wire and touching the tree it would be burning; without being there its hard to say. 3 phase has many combinations but most commonly have 3 hot on top and neutral underneath sometimes followed by open wire secondaries then cable and or phone. The open wire secondaries carry 440 to 880 v normally the 3 hot on top combined is 12500 volts but varies by conductor size and power companies needs. Picture is common 3 phase pole but there are as many configurations as there are size of conductors. Some people see open wire secondary's and think they are 3 phase because there's 3 wires but only 2 of those are hot and just 440 to 880 are carried by them. Just is a relative term because 440 to 880 could still kill an elephant if you understand what i'm saying just vrs 12.5 kv !


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## Gugi47 (May 7, 2017)

Check this out for a small reference:


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## ropensaddle (May 7, 2017)

scarygary92 said:


> Thats pretty amazing you survived that! speaking of 12 volts, when i was trying to find a misfire in my car I figured i would just pull the plugs and listen for a change in idle; well I was a dumbarse and pulled the coil wire directly from the distributor while my hand was propping up the metal hood, needless to say I learned a lot about electricity that day. when I was a child i intentionally stuck my finger in a wall outlet to see what would happen. electricity has always facinated me I remember asking my grandma why birds and squirrels could sit on the lines and not get shocked so Somewhere down the line I at least learned powerlines where no joke.


Indirect contact is why I am alive, however; because the limb was detached it was more of a jolt. I was a greenhorn in those days but now I know how to prevent contact. I was zapped 8 to 10 times indirect in my first 2 years of my career but climbing miles of burning lines and learning how to stay out of the path of least resistance made the rest of the 24 years event less ! I was asked many times in those years was it amps or volts that kill of which my reply was; its neither it is resistance or lack of that kills!


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