# Chipper comparison



## FBerkel (Mar 15, 2002)

Anyone have advice on choosing between a Vermeer bc 1000 and a Bandit xp 150? I like the feed chute size and also the chip quality of the Vermeer; the Bandit seems better built, has bigger engine (100 horse). Reliability? Maintenance? Dealer reliablility? Does one tend to feed small rocks into the knives more than the other? Any observations on either machine are appreciated. Thanks.


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## Darin (Mar 15, 2002)

I feel dealer support for a Vermeer would be better than a bandit due to the fact that the Bandit dealer doesnt even have a shop. They would do a lot better out here with dealer support. I think Bandit is an excellent choice in quality though. They all have their plus and minuses. Have you also looked into Morbark? They have good dealer support in Colorado. These are definitely the big 3 to look at in Chippers. One of our sponsors for the Colorado area happens to be a Morbark/Rayco dealer. South Side Total Power his name is Paul 303-789-4339. Just think you should try all three when you are spending this much money. Its just like anything else, its what you feel comfortable with. What are you pulling the chipper with, out of curiosity. Some pull nicer than others. What engine are you looking at? I would guess John Deere with the Bandit (he has a thing for them). Cummins on the Vermeer?


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## William (Mar 16, 2002)

As a previous owner of a VERMEER chipper- 935 with a 50 horse Perkins diesel- from the beginning I experienced many problems, ranging from bearing problems to paint blistering, and machine vibrating resulting in the replacement of the battery 3 times. A far as customer service, it took over a year just to get the blistering paint issue resolved. The only reason it was even resolved was that they thought I was interested in a new machine. I had to contact the "head-honchos" who did not help in resolving these issues, and didn't even bother to respond. I always was told. "we'll look into it" or "you're the only one who has ever had these problems." Tired of no resolve, I sold the VERMEER chipper and purchased a 250 XP BRUSH BANDIT 116 horse Turbo diesel. The machine is built much heavier/sturdier and is all around better built. The BRUSH BANDIT is easily maintained. It takes less than three to five minutes to touch up the knives. It is easy to change the knives as well. It has an easy access pan that opens below the feed rollers that limits knife damage due to dirt, rocks etc. This machine has more than enough power for chipping 12" or less material and performs all day long. I have approx. 400 hours on this chipper as of date and have had no problems. To me, the VERMEER seems to be just a more "cosmetically" attractive chipper- more fiberglass and other features which are more expensive to fix. Also, it "houses" the features, which makes it difficult to diagnose a problem. 
I recommend demo-ing both machines and asking alot of questions. Let the representatives SHOW you, not tell you how each procedure is done. Out of all the chippers this business has owned, and this is a fourth generation business, the BRUSH BANDIT has been the best chipper for getting the job done in the shortest amount of time. 
William Smith


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## FBerkel (Mar 16, 2002)

Darin: Thanks for replying. The Vermeer engine is a Cummins 85; Bandit is a Deere 100. I'll pull it with an ex-Asplundh forestry model, '84 with a 350. 

The Morbark guy can't come close to the price the other two are offering, so I ruled them out. Also, I used morbarks in the early-mid 1980's, and came away unimpressed: their welds rattled apart, their feed wheels got jammed. I presume they've fixed these problems by now, but I'm not ready to spend about 3,000 extra for a comparable model.

William: I appreciate the first hand advice. I already demoed the Vermeer, am scheduled to demo the Bandit on Monday. 

Anybody out there who has the bc 1000?


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## Cicero (Mar 16, 2002)

FBerkel, 

I am the Morbark dealer in Denver and am a little surprised that we werent able to be price competitive. The BC 1000 is about 21K which would compare to our 2070XL which is between 20-21K also. In addition, I also have a 2090-D which is a disc that is about 21K. If you wish for a larger chipper I have a 2012-D with approx. 100hrs on it that I would sell for 21K. It would come with full warranty. Morbark gives a 2-year parts and labor warranty on the machine...which beats our competition. The 2070 has a 86hp cummins and the 2012-D 110hp engine. In addition the engine will have a full 5-year warranty. Give us a call if interested but we have many chippers running around and can be competitive. We also are a Stihl, Husqvarna and buckingham dealer. We have more than just chippers. 

The Bandit 150 is a 9" machine and would be comparable to the 2090-D, however, the 2012-D is a 12" machine and should out work the Bandit 150. (303) 789-4339.

Thanks,
Paul


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## Cicero (Mar 16, 2002)

P.S.

Your concerns about the earlier models have been resolved and are much more impressive now. The welds wont break and the feed wheels dont vine wrap. I can provide you with some references if necessary.


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## Darin (Mar 17, 2002)

1)I had a friend with a problem not solved on a 935 for a long time too. I doubt this kind of thing doesn't happen routinely, but that can really piss ya off. You can have to big of a customer dept too.
2)As far as your truck it would handle any of these units. Vermeer is the lightest, Bandit and Morbark is the heaviest.
3)BIG C is right, Morbark has greatly improved on their feed wheels. ( I agree those were terrible.) I have had the luxury of demoing all three units at the same time. It may take an hour of your time to look at it, but like I said before, its what you feel comfortable with. I personally feel confident in these models.
3)I know they are price competitive, I priced them all at this years Expo downtown. Paul is the only guy you should talk to there (on Chipper sales). The key is, is how well the guy you are talking too knows the competition and their own chippers. My guess is some guy answering the phone may have quoted you prices right out of the retail book????
4)Wouldn't get too excited about 15HP difference on the chipper. Wont make a huge difference. BIG C, what kind of engines did you say have a five year warranty? You said a cummins on one. I thought the only one that had a five was a Perkins. Might be a typo. Oh, and is this warranty through the manufacture? So what I mean is, is it a Morbark and Perkins thing or is it a universal thing? 
5)I knew the Bandit guy quoted you a Deere!!! He knows no different. BTW-I feel the engine is the last thing you should look at to make a decision on one of these guys, unless its way underpowered. I am saying all of the units make a killer engine. Cummins, Cat, Perkins, or Deere, etc. Cat is the best but most expensive.
6)The weight of the disc helps a lot. Once it gets going its hard to slow it down no matter what HP it is.
7)I think JPS is a BC1000 fan. Where is he? He usually answers everthing.
8)I will see your questions when I get back home. I leave for Missouri first thing tomorrow. (Wife's grandma passed.) Happy you found Arboristsite. I like seeing some home folk every now and then. I think Florida is dominating us. Tell your friends. 
9)Let us know how your demos go!!! Plus...for demos try to demo the same wood if possible. Pine is much different than Elm and so on and so on. I know that portion is obvious, but you may not think of doing the same kind of wood. Its like if a company went and chipped a Palm tree in Florida and then did a sumac tree the next day. Its gonna perform much different. You may think in the back of your mind this thing is struggling and not buy it cause of that. They all may struggle with certain woods. So keep an open mind.


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## Darin (Mar 21, 2002)

Well how did your demos go? I got to thinking to ask you if you are gonna climb a lot of hills with that little 350 in you chipper truck. Did you try to pull the machines? What did you think of the Bandit? Good chipper but just out of curiosity what did you think of the sales guy? I have heard (from a lot of people)......Never mind, I will wait to hear. Did you call Morbark? CYA,


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## FBerkel (Mar 21, 2002)

Thanks for referring me to Big Ciciero: he's a good guy. Tried the Morbark 2090 today; liked some aspects, didn't like others.
On the plus side were the dealer, the hydrolic wheel lift, and the general sturdiness. On the minus was the fact that the feed system has problems, and the overall weight and tongue weight were a little high for my unit. Feed wheels don't channel brush into disk knives like Bandit's tapered wheels do; even smallish branches got stuck. The upper wheel doesn't come down far enough, leaving a gap that small (one inch or so) branches would sit in, the feed wheels spinning unengaged. 

I also tried the Vermeer bc1000 (liked it, though I'm a little concerned that it hasn't been around that long, no track record to scrutinize); and the Bandit 150 xp (great machine over all, too heavy for my unit, feed table's too small, the dealer? Well....)
Am scheduled to try the 90W, see if a smaller Bandit can chip any-where near how the 12 inch one did.

--Fred


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## rbtree (Mar 27, 2002)

cicero, 

The 150 bandit is a 12" machine, but i think has smaller feed wheels, as well as opening, than my 250XP.

The 90W is an excellent machine. Lots of guys out here have them, or the one feed wheel, 90 degree feed, 95 which works better for evergreen material. Unless you are working with lots of poor quality woods, there is no real need to be chipping the big wood. I'd rather make firewood for the customer, myself or the firewood guys than fill up the truck quicker and have to make more frequent dump runs. That said, if we have cottonwood, poplar, rotten wood, or ugly knotty stuff, I can chip 15" material with my 250 by taking the extra time to rip it flat to under 10-12 " on one dimension. Mine has a Perkins 115 horse diesel, a winch and live hydraulics, and kicks ass!!!


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## John Paul Sanborn (Mar 27, 2002)

I thought this ws asked on thwo boards.

I'm a BC1000 fan for it's limited designed use. Wich is small truck in high end trim companies. I thing it has a 17 inch wide infeed with a 12 inch max chipping cap. I would not want to feed 1o inch logs through it all day.

If I were goning big most of the time I would go Morbark. I've swarn off Bandid beacuse of some past warrenty problems from metal fatigue.

I know several companies that are using the BC1000 and love it. 

On big jobs I've been renting a morbark Hurricane and bobcat loader. Don't do it too often though.


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## FBerkel (Mar 28, 2002)

Have narrowed my search to two choices: Vermeer bc1000 and Bandit 90w. Demoed the Bandit (80 horse Deere) yesterday and today, and it seems to have an extremely good feed system. It was ripping through dead Russian Olive branches with wide crotches, 4, 5, 6 inch branches. Chip quality was good. Main application will be pruned branches, so I'm starting to think a 9" chipper is o.k. We do 20 or so large removals a year, alot of them cottonwood, but how much extra wood cutting/loading/unloading does that extra 3 inches of capacity really save me? I'm inclined to go with the Bandit, but haven't quite made up my mind yet. The Vermeer sure tested out great. Chipped a large Siberian elm crane removal in whole sub-leaders, and it was very strong for its weight. Just the fact that it's light for its capacity worries me a little; will it hold up in the long term?


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## treeclimber165 (Mar 28, 2002)

I don't know for sure, but I would imagine that the vast majority of weight difference is because the 1000 Vermeer is a drum chipper, not disc. Those Discs weigh several hundred pounds and contribute to excess weight considerably. The new style drums are the future of chippers. Less wear and tear on the trucks, too.


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## rbtree (Mar 29, 2002)

So, Brian, the drums are really lighter than discs, eh?

I do believe the huge morbark drums are hollow, but I've not noticed an appreciable weight diff. between comparable capacity disc/drum chippers. I'll have to check.

Be a long time before I'm ready to upgrade from mine 250XP.

The solid drum in my old Mitts/ Merrill weighs ~950 lb, a lot more than the 250 disc, I think. Different tech, though. Best hand fed chipper ever made, and now available as self feeder, don't think it is a good retrofit, though, as it still is only 9 inch capacity. Finally available with 360 degree chute though.


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## DDM (Mar 29, 2002)

I know everyone thinks there the beasts from Hell but.... I Like my Asplundh Whisper chipper.


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## FBerkel (Apr 9, 2002)

*A verdict has been reached*

After demoing 5 chippers, and much consultation/deliberation, I bought the BC 1000, today. It hauled-in greater amounts of nasty brush better than either of the Morbarks, and better than the 90W. The huge feed wheel grabs hold of logs better, and the infeed opening allowed some 12" logs in. Only problem is that the drum keeps drawing material in after it has passed the feed wheel, so the auto feed and the control bar are both helpless to stop the butts of large pieces from slowing down the engine significantly. (This can be avoided by reversing the wheel just before the end of the log disappears).
I think it is a versitile machine for its weight and price. Drum bearings ought to last longer than disk, because material runs in parallel to bearing. Engagement is strange, but relatively simple compared to a clutch. It is odd looking, to be sure, and maybe that's the reason there aren't more out there. The fiber glass is easy enough to remove. Drum is hollow, only 400 lbs., which makes me wonder about strain on the engine over time. Just figured i'm getting a little more machine for the money.
Thanks, all, for your input.
--Fred


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## Darin (Apr 9, 2002)

Congrats Fred, Hope you enjoy it. It may look a little odd, but its how you feel about it is what counts!!!!


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## FBerkel (Jun 21, 2002)

*2 months later*

The Little Alien (as my guys refer to it) kicks some serious butt for a 4000 lb machine. Very glad I got it. It's saving serious time on jobs, compared to the old chuck and duck, should have it paid off in a year and a half. Also makes a very high quality chip, if you slow the feed wheels to about one half; have been selling most loads.


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## Darin (Jun 22, 2002)

Sounds great. Just as I said, go with the one that makes you comfortable.

PS. I heard you were at the ISA climbing thing at Wash park, I should have looked around for you.


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## rbtree (Jun 22, 2002)

Are you sure the 1000 only weighs 4000 lb? 

I'm very happy with my 250XP, but that 1000 sure seems to be a nice machine....


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jun 22, 2002)

4210 lbs. (1910 kg)

http://www.vermeer.com/equipment/brush_chippers/BC1000XL/

Since you harvest logs it may be a good one for you.


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## FBerkel (Jun 22, 2002)

4200, to be precise.


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## FBerkel (Jun 22, 2002)

Darin,

Would have liked to meet you. I took 6'th, just four points out of Masters Challenge (and I can think of about a hundred ways I could have gotten those points!). Not bad for the Old Man of the competition?


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