# Bucking Random Trail Dead Fall - Before & After



## MtnHermit (Aug 30, 2011)

Based on the helpful tips I received in this *thread* I set off on a practice trail maintenance project in a local National Forest. The "trail" consisted of a long abandoned road connecting three cabin ruins, like this:






Getting to the old road required a bushwhack through the willows like you see in the background with two stream crossings.

Some random thoughts:

I gave no blood
Hadn't used the saw since April so I was rusty, typically only cut in winter
Cutting top bind logs is significantly harder than firewood blocking because of having to lift the saw and cut from below
I had several minor saw binds, as predicted, solved in various ways.
Had an emergency hand saw, didn't use it
Some suggested I take a peavy, while it would have no doubt have been useful, carrying yet another heavy tool was almost unthinkable in those willows
I fashioned a strap out of seat belt webbing and fastek buckles to carry the saw from my shoulder
The 455 always started on one pull if I set the high idle, otherwise it wouldn't start
I purchased a plastic felling wedge, it proved useful several times.
The trail head was at 11,000-feet so similar to my original trail project 
Running a chainsaw for three hours is *much *harder than a mouse for eight, duh





This was my first cut and one of the hardest, the wood was solid and big and the closest log had a significant side bind. As I approached from below I noticed the center tree had about 10-feet of bark missing as the falling tree scraped on its way down. I expected the tree to move when I cut through, turns out it moved about 3-feet away from me, not violently but still got my attention.





Learned on this one to make two cuts at an opposite angle so that the block opens the cut as it rolls downhill. 





While many of the trees were solid, this one was rotted and it cut like a hot knife through butter. 




















The camera battery died here so no after photo. Getting a path through these three large stacked logs had me thinking. The guide suggested I learn how to cut left-handed. One log had the potential to move back as it dropped so I cut it left handed so that I was out of the way. I did a couple more logs after this group, then started to make bad/risky decisions and decided my day was done. Carrying the saw back to the trail head I was sure it had gained twenty pounds.

Thanks to all who provided helpful tips in past threads, perhaps the photos will suggest more.


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## slowp (Aug 30, 2011)

Did you have the blessings of the Forest Service? They generally like to keep abandoned roads abandoned--especially to what are now archeological sites--old cabins.


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## Humptulips (Aug 30, 2011)

slowp said:


> Did you have the blessings of the Forest Service? They generally like to keep abandoned roads abandoned--especially to what are now archeological sites--old cabins.



A friend who worked for the FS and has now passed on gave me some good advise regarding this.
He said never ask the FS for permission. They will always say no. It is easiest for them, no paperwork and no blame to them if someone objects. If they find your trail and don't like it and you are not there it will probably be ignored because that is also easiest. Worst case they come along when you are there, they will tell you to stop. If you take something it could get you in trouble otherwise probably the worst case is an ass chewing.


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## forestryworks (Aug 30, 2011)

Always a good idea to have at least a 28 or 32" bar for bucking blowdowns and deadfall - keeps you further away from violent forces. Gives you "reach".

Nice pictures. Thanks for sharing.


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## hammerlogging (Aug 30, 2011)

great job mtnhermit. way to get right in there.


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## madhatte (Aug 30, 2011)

@ Mtnhermit: good on you for listening to us grumpy old know-it-alls and taking criticism in the manner intended. Rep for taking what you needed from the discussion and applying it.


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## lfnh (Aug 31, 2011)

MtnHermit said:


> Based on the helpful tips I received in this *thread* I set off on a practice trail maintenance project in a local National Forest. The "trail" consisted of a long abandoned road connecting three cabin ruins, like this:
> 
> I did a couple more logs after this group, then started to make bad/risky decisions and decided my day was done. Carrying the saw back to the trail head I was sure it had gained twenty pounds.
> 
> Thanks to all who provided helpful tips in past threads, perhaps the photos will suggest more.


 
That's the hardest to adhere to. Usually the excuse to keep going is "should have been finished yesterday; want outa this billy goat crap now; rain/snow coming -gotta get er done or the gotcha: it's the last one..."

MtnHermit - Thanks for the update and pictures. Good the trial run worked out .Rep coming.


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## MtnHermit (Aug 31, 2011)

Humptulips said:


> A friend who worked for the FS and has now passed on gave me some good advise regarding this.
> He said never ask the FS for permission. *They will always say no. *It is easiest for them, no paperwork and no blame to them if someone objects. If they find your trail and don't like it and you are not there it will probably be ignored because that is also easiest. Worst case they come along when you are there, they will tell you to stop. If you take something it could get you in trouble otherwise probably the worst case is an ass chewing.


Indeed, this falls into the "Better to ask forgiveness than ask permission" category. Thanks for your reply.
BTW, had to look up Humptulips, WA, even has a Wikipedia page, perhaps you wrote it.

Another image, I was over my quota (8) in my OP.


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## Wazzu (Aug 31, 2011)

Good for you. I like to see these old trails and roads kept open. Just because a trail or road has some trees across it does not mean it is abandoned. It is the USFS that chose to leave the trees in place to give the appearance that they are "abandoned" and therefore no one should be able to get in there. Plus those old cabins may be mining claims and therefore private property. It is not against the regs to create foot access to private property is it? MAN ALIVE the USFS gets me mad, some of their b.s. is unreal.


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## 2dogs (Aug 31, 2011)

Wazzu said:


> Good for you. I like to see these old trails and roads kept open. Just because a trail or road has some trees across it does not mean it is abandoned. It is the USFS that chose to leave the trees in place to give the appearance that they are "abandoned" and therefore no one should be able to get in there. Plus those old cabins may be mining claims and therefore private property. It is not against the regs to create foot access to private property is it? MAN ALIVE the USFS gets me mad, some of their b.s. is unreal.


 
Alot of assumptions in your post. The USFS has rules and they apply to everyone. Pretty simple, ask BEFORE you take matters into your own hands.


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## floyd (Sep 1, 2011)

Yup. That's how it starts. Few folks cut a chunk of dead wood by the road. Then a few more cut a dead chunk or two. Pretty soon someone is cutting into decks because they were beside the road.

Your friend was wrong.


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## slowp (Sep 1, 2011)

Wazzu said:


> Good for you. I like to see these old trails and roads kept open. Just because a trail or road has some trees across it does not mean it is abandoned. It is the USFS that chose to leave the trees in place to give the appearance that they are "abandoned" and therefore no one should be able to get in there. Plus those old cabins may be mining claims and therefore private property. It is not against the regs to create foot access to private property is it? MAN ALIVE the USFS gets me mad, some of their b.s. is unreal.



Here is what you don't hear. It is talked about at planning meetings. The (insert name here) environmental group is concerned about too many roads. They have found (insert number here) roads per square mile. They are concerned that the Bla Bla Timber Sale will construct X amount of new roads, and that exceeds the forest plan requirements. They will be appealing the Bla Bla sale because of the increase in road density.

That is one big reason that we have expensive yarding systems like helicopter and downhill cable. Building new road is a red flag in these parts.
So, roads are closed, or left to close themselves to meet the Forest Plan Guidelines. 

As a former timber beastie, I would have to support closing old roads if it helps to get logs to the mills.


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## slangegger (Sep 1, 2011)

Slowp

I was wondering when you were gonna comment. Thanks for the "other side" of the story.


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## MtnHermit (Sep 1, 2011)

floyd said:


> Yup. That's how it starts. Few folks cut a chunk of dead wood by the road. Then a few more cut a dead chunk or two. Pretty soon someone is cutting into decks because they were beside the road.
> 
> Your friend was wrong.





slowp said:


> Here is what you don't hear. It is talked about at planning meetings. The (insert name here) environmental group is concerned about too many roads. They have found (insert number here) roads per square mile. They are concerned that the Bla Bla Timber Sale will construct X amount of new roads, and that exceeds the forest plan requirements. They will be appealing the Bla Bla sale because of the increase in road density.
> 
> That is one big reason that we have expensive yarding systems like helicopter and downhill cable. Building new road is a red flag in these parts.
> So, roads are closed, or left to close themselves to meet the Forest Plan Guidelines.
> ...


Allow me some clarification.

I would never open an old road to vehicle traffic. The old wagon road I cleared was for foot traffic only and then mostly elk feet. I stumbled upon these cabins and old wagon road by bushwhacking from above timberline several years ago. I've since been back multiple times and the natural valley floor is the path of least resistance, except for all the dead fall. To the best of my knowledge there is no access to this old wagon road from either above or below. The only "easy" access is through the chest high willows from an existing FS trail head, about a 1/4-mile.

So while road closures are certainly a valid topic of discussion, this is a simple novice bucking thread related to clearing FOOT trails.

Thanks for your posts and concern for our National Forest, I share your concern. I also share Wazzu's concern about FS BS, which is how this all got started, but that'll be a new thread.


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## Humptulips (Sep 1, 2011)

slowp said:


> Here is what you don't hear. It is talked about at planning meetings. The (insert name here) environmental group is concerned about too many roads. They have found (insert number here) roads per square mile. They are concerned that the Bla Bla Timber Sale will construct X amount of new roads, and that exceeds the forest plan requirements. They will be appealing the Bla Bla sale because of the increase in road density.
> 
> That is one big reason that we have expensive yarding systems like helicopter and downhill cable. Building new road is a red flag in these parts.
> So, roads are closed, or left to close themselves to meet the Forest Plan Guidelines.
> ...



That would be quite relevant if a road were being built. Bucking a windfall out of a trail or a road for that matter is not building road. This kind of stuff will be ignored because that is easiest.
Road density? I'm sure we are talking actual roads and if I brought in a cat or hoe and started constructing a road on FS land withoutn approval I would expect to get in trouble.


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## MtnHermit (Jun 25, 2012)

Humptulips said:


> That would be quite relevant if a road were being built. Bucking a windfall out of a trail or a road for that matter is not building road. This kind of stuff will be ignored because that is easiest.
> Road density? I'm sure we are talking actual roads and if I brought in a cat or hoe and started constructing a road on FS land withoutn approval I would expect to get in trouble.


An example: Road In Wilderness Study Area Leads To Settlement

I looked at the current ownership maps and the Google photos and based on them the road was not in the WSA. However a permit is still required to open/widen etc a road with a bulldozer.


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