# limb Walking ?????



## rahtreelimbs (May 11, 2002)

Ok guys, need some personal tricks of the trade, I'm trying to learn all the different methods for working your way up a limb that is on a 45 degree angle or better. No suckers or good footholds. This is when you are tied in at point that is high but you can't body thrust up. ( You know, working a tree for a full maintenance prune ). No hooks. I have used the tail of my climbing line for double crotching, works good. But what happens when you can't get your line to a point for a double crotch? I've also used slings as foot holds. I know that you can alternate between your climbing line and your safety lanyard, but that takes alot of energy. This is something I could use some good advice on. I am largely self-taught and I can get thru a tree OK, but efficiency is what I am after. Thanx.


----------



## treeclimber165 (May 11, 2002)

Dontcha just LOVE working a tree that has been completely stripped out by a previous climber? Sometimes I get into situations where I have to climb out a 20' lead with no limbs, it can be tough. Many times I can redirect my lifeline to get a better angle, or toss a rope up to the next fork I'm trying to reach. Sometimes I cheat, depending on how badly the tree was butchered the last time. But don't tell anyone!  It's a 'last resort' type thing. I cheated twice the first few weeks starting back climbing a few months ago, not since.


----------



## Kneejerk Bombas (May 11, 2002)

Here's a tip that works sometimes. Put a little slack in your climbing line and flip one side over a stub on a branch above. It looks like this:


----------



## Kneejerk Bombas (May 11, 2002)

Then sometimes, at band camp, when I get out with no way to balence, I sit down on the branch and kinda scoot out a little bit at a time. I figure sitting with a lanyard on the branch, I can't wipe out too bad.


----------



## John Paul Sanborn (May 11, 2002)

If you have a high tie in toy can have the rope take up a lot of your wieght. Then monkey climb the side or back of the stem, having a slack tender is real healpful hear, keep the flipline arounf the stem too. 

Some times this is where a big swing comes in.

I will frequently double crotch transfer in these situations, if I'm close enough toget a line in but cant stem or swin across. then you keep adjusting your knots so that you work across the gap to the next lead. Another way I've done thisn is to put a micro pulley on the center D, run the line through both crotches and each end to side d's. your working end on one side going up into your FC/TIP, down to the pulley on your center d, up to the second TIP (FC is your real good) then back to your belt. Now your on a loop you can do a transfer on.


----------



## DDM (May 12, 2002)

> _Originally posted by Mike Maas _
> *Then sometimes, at band camp, *



LMAO


----------



## DDM (May 12, 2002)

Mike? isnt the stub illustration a little risky? Seems like there is a potential to get a lot of slack in the line. Should it slip off/over the stub.


----------



## Kneejerk Bombas (May 14, 2002)

No, I never had a problem. I supose if you took it to an extreme level, and had your line on a little dead stub, spreading your line apart at a huge angle...remember, it's just a redirect, you haven't changed your original tie in.

It's not an every day tool, just one that works really good sometimes, mostly for it's simplicity. I often have a pole saw hanging around when I'm pruning, and this makes cutting a stub and hooking the rope real easy.


----------



## coydog (May 14, 2002)

if you carry two 12' fliplines with Gibbs ascenders you can tie in with flipline A, cinch yourself up and set flipline B a few feet ahead, let the slack out of flipline A, cinch up flipline B, repeat, repeat. with practice you can get a monkey swing rythym going on the underside of the branch. If the branch is at a more acute angle as you say and if there are no natural tie in points you can use slings for false crotches as tie in points for your fliplines and use the same technique, undoing the slings and resetting as you advance, with a little practice you can get a preaty steady tree sloth rythym going,slow but sure.


----------



## geofore (May 28, 2002)

*limb walking*

A guy stopped by today and asked me to trim his walnut tree back. He is ok with the hieght but the spread is now over the neighbors deck. He has the largest walnut for miles around,it is a beauty. Wants it done this week. Bad timming, last week the frost burned most of the leaves off. He doesn't want to wait two or three weeks for the tree to recover. He was out there today sweeping the neighbors deck clean of leaves.
I cut the biggest walnut tree in this town (over 100' tall) three years ago after it was hit with lightning which took off 23' of the top and left seven huge limbs hanging dangerously. That guy wanted his down and the stump removed so he could put up a garage.
I have watched this tree for over 40 years and it never gets more than 6 or 7 walnuts on it every year and they are lousy at that. The tree is about 4' ABH and hangs over the neighbors lots on either side. He says if I don't get it this week he'll get someone else to do it. There is no talking him into waiting. He wants it brought in about 20' on each side this week. I'm not thrilled about the hurry up part. Is this the right time to cut or walk away??? I'll inspect it tomorrow and ask him to wait a few more weeks to let the new growth recover from the frost but it may not help, he is in a hurry.
My thought is that this tree will try to send out lots of new branches with the spurt to recover from the frost damage and this cutting will be a stress if he doesn't wait. 
Can you cut it Yesterday????? I'm in a hurry to get it done.


----------



## Stumper (May 28, 2002)

If the first leaves got zapped and you aren't stubbing anything back(heaven forfend) then I would expect immediate pruning to cause less stress on the tree. If you wait until it releafs and then prune it will have wasted resources in producing the leaves you just cut off. Best times IMHO are NOW or later in the season after the new growth has hardened off and the tree has had time to reestablish some reserves. Three weeks from now or a month before fall frost would be about the worst (though not likely to seriously harm the tree)


----------



## Stumper (May 28, 2002)

Treeclimber165, In my area it is the guy with a bucket truck who lion's tails everything. -Job security for him - since there isn't anything to climb on he'll probably get the bid to come back and do it wrong again. Actually he does't lionstail EVERYTHING--He tops a lot of 'em.


----------



## geofore (May 28, 2002)

*limb walking*

I've got to get my digital camera out and show you a pic of the way some trees on my street were done by others. They look like Mike's pics of how to do a tree. Then to add insult to injury the guy shot the tree with hormone to stunt growth. It is dying back and won't make it much longer. I do not want him to do this walnut. He works cheap.
Want to bet the homeowner calls this guy back for tree removal after a few more limb parts die?


----------



## John Paul Sanborn (May 29, 2002)

Geo, Am I reading this right, you're going to do a lateral crown reduction of 40 ft on this tree? 

Sounds like bad news to me, but then I'm not looking at it. I would get a disclaimer in the job that your not responsible for any problems.....


----------



## Kevin (May 29, 2002)

Here`s my take on what Rich is asking ...
If you use a loop runner or a couple of loop runners you can tie off to the limb you are walking and in the event of a spill you aren`t going too far.


----------



## rahtreelimbs (May 29, 2002)

*Kevin*

What I am talking about is working your way up a limb that is almost like walking uphill. You don't have anything other than the bark to grab on to. You need to use your feet against the limb and alternate between your climbing line and your safety lanyard to work your way up. I have yet to master this method. Sometimes double crotching works, but sometimes you can't get your climbing around anything to use this method. Any insight would be helpful. Thanx, Rich.


----------



## Kneejerk Bombas (May 29, 2002)

Sometimes I will use a speedline strap, and wrap it around the branch and stick my foot into it, so it acts like a step. 

The other little tip is to take both leads of your lanyard and pull them tight around the limb with your hand. This way it won't move on the branch until you release your grip, and acts as a handle.

Your discribing one of the harder parts of climbing. As I plan my climb, I try to avoid the need to do this fooling around by setting my tie in point or redirects such that I can be supported from above.


----------



## Kevin (May 29, 2002)

Rich,
That`s what I meant by the drawing.
Use a rope or strap on the limb you are walking in conjunction with your climbing rope.
Keep advancing the straps as you progress.
You could even use a pruning pole with a modified hook to grasp the limb for support while you pulled yourself along it.


----------



## TheTreeSpyder (May 30, 2002)

You could also have groundies throw a line through target and help belay U2 there in conjuction with other methods. Also, i like dead manning the lanyard by giving it a round turn before connecting to D-ring. i use the loop runners as MM says, they also make nice sliding handles for hand grip as i go!

Also, on inclines if you have your lifeline super tight, you can push horizontally (easier), the line will limit your movement and lift you in arc, instead of letting you go further out horizontally as you are pushing, i'll do this on the side of the limb. i think it is a more efficient use of power, but requires just the right conditions.


----------



## geofore (May 30, 2002)

*limb climb*

Kevin your pic is nice a nice way to discribe it. About three years ago I removed a large pine tree about 100' in front of this walnut which blocked the morning sun from getting to the walnut, now the walnut has a little tuft of growth every 1'-3' on most of the limbs where the sun hits them in the morning.I talked to the owner yesterday and he wants it taken in at least 20' all the way around, leave the top alone. If I have to come in 30' or more get a leader that will take over he is ok with that. Lots of dead stuff (small) will have to go to get the ropes in the right places to double crotch. The spread of the tree will be reduced by about 50' to make the tree look right.
I told him that some branches may die back and he said cut it back if it hangs over the line and in 2-3 years if they die back come back and take them out. If this tree had been 50' futher down the hill from the house he would have had me remove the tree but it shades his house and deck all afternoon that has to be worth a ton or two of air condish on sunny days.


----------



## John Paul Sanborn (May 30, 2002)

Don't know if this was mentioned, you can sort of hang on the back side of the limb and using the climbing line and hands and feet, walk up the back side of thge limb.

Slack tender or tress type hitch is a must doing this.


----------



## Kneejerk Bombas (May 30, 2002)

That's a good one John. 
It's kinda counterintuitive to go to the downhill side of the branch, but you can push against your climbing line and walk right up.


----------



## Kevin (May 30, 2002)

Ok Mike, you asked for it.
You had better sharpen your crayon !


----------



## Kevin (May 30, 2002)




----------



## Froggy (Jun 1, 2002)

*Tip*

You might want to try a redirect like Mr. Mass was talking about. Except put a sling and a beiner on a high branch. That way your climbing line would be at a point further out. Keep your line tight and secure as you advance out on the limb... Using a double wrap with your lanyerd to keep you on top of the branch...


----------



## WillClimb (Jun 4, 2002)

John (JPS) -

You stold my remark!! I was reading through this whole thing thinking, "..nobody mentioned walking up the back side of the limb yet!" and then I got to your post. That's my favorite way, or at least safest feeling way, to get out on those types of limbs. Although, there are times when even that can't be done. Sometimes I'll just try to get the 16' of Jameson out there, but that can be a back breaker, and time consuming - considering all the breaks you have to take.

- Will


----------



## oldirty (Feb 16, 2009)

Kneejerk Bombas said:


> That's a good one John.
> It's kinda counterintuitive to go to the downhill side of the branch, but you can push against your climbing line and walk right up.





with art work like this how come you dont post in the climbing section anymore kneejerk?


usually in this situation i end up going up the side of the limb using my flipline to stay on the branch. that is unless i cant hand over hand pull myself to the work area. or i will choke the flipline out as far as i can get it and get to that spot and then rechoke further out and up the limb.


----------



## TreeTopKid (Feb 16, 2009)

I use a double crotch and/or loop runners, or the Koala method. I say this because I had to remove an Aspen tree that some hacks had started then abandoned after running with the money. They had left 30ft stick with a huge diagonally upward limb at the top that reached out across the neighbors house. I had to shimmy up that thing like a Koala it was 30ft long and by the time I was at the end I was about 15ft above my anchor point which was at the top of the stem.

They had told the lady that they were from the local authority. They even had signs on their trucks saying that they were. In reality they were travelers. She was grateful to me because no one else wanted to touch it. I felt sorry for her.


----------



## Nailsbeats (Feb 16, 2009)

I shimy up that thing with my feet together like an islander going after coconuts.


----------



## TreeTopKid (Feb 16, 2009)

Nailsbeats said:


> I shimy up that thing with my feet together like an islander going after coconuts.



It does work!


----------



## JeffL (Feb 16, 2009)

I cross my legs indian style, push my shins into the limb, and brace myself against the side of the limb keeping tension on my buckstrap. I just kind of shimmy up, alternately putting slack in my climbing line, take that in, flip the lanyard up, work up again. Humping up sticks is no fun, so I'll double crotch when I can, even if it means getting that second tie in point earlier on while higher in the tree, so I can get myself worked out and up the limb, or tie into something higher than it.

Seems like this is all too common in old sugar maples, and red and pin oaks that have been skinned out.


----------



## 1I'dJak (Feb 16, 2009)

I often use my grapple with 30'+ feet of 7mil line and a hand ascencer in conjuction with my rappel line....tie in...rappel til you and find a good spot at the end of the branch to throw your grapple...then with your hand ascender attached to your front D's, you and cinch it up tight...rappell some more... cinch...rappell.... until you get to where you gotta go.... this is how we swing from tree to tree out forestry climbing...


----------



## TreeTopKid (Feb 16, 2009)

1I'dJak said:


> I often use my grapple with 30'+ feet of 7mil line and a hand ascencer in conjuction with my rappel line....tie in...rappel til you and find a good spot at the end of the branch to throw your grapple...then with your hand ascender attached to your front D's, you and cinch it up tight...rappell some more... cinch...rappell.... until you get to where you gotta go.... this is how we swing from tree to tree out forestry climbing...



Those grapples look a little insane! Something I'd like to own, don't know whether I could use it though. Fair play to you dude great to watch them being used.


----------



## 1I'dJak (Feb 16, 2009)

work great for hangers...essential tool in the kit...


----------



## Ed Roland (Feb 16, 2009)

Any of you cats doing residential even own a grapple? Me neither, but they sure look like fun!


----------



## ccrider2240 (Feb 16, 2009)

just get up there and quit looking at it like its going to trim itself.


----------



## oldirty (Feb 16, 2009)

woodweasel said:


> Any of you cats doing residential even own a grapple? Me neither, but they sure look like fun!



i bought one in AK but forgot to pack it when i left. should still be in the living room where i left it. kinda pissed. lol


----------



## TreeTopKid (Feb 16, 2009)

Where can you buy a grapple?


----------



## oldirty (Feb 16, 2009)

TreeTopKid said:


> Where can you buy a grapple?



i bought it at a army/navy surplus store out there, they were on every corner out there.


----------



## TreeTopKid (Feb 16, 2009)

oldirty said:


> i bought it at a army/navy surplus store out there, they were on every corner out there.



So it is an adapted piece of kit? I've seen the British Military Grapple hooks before. Too bad you left yours behind. You must have taken a leaf out of my book LOL! I do that all the time.


----------



## 1I'dJak (Feb 17, 2009)

the grapples we use are fabricated using a fairly simple design...with tines that lay flat when hung from the top...there's a ring on the bottome to tie your line to, and a ring up top to hang from your belt (which lets the tines fold down).... some guys use all steel (heavy) i use a steel shaft with aluminum tines....


----------



## oldirty (Feb 17, 2009)

hey 1I'd, you got any footage of you in going tree to tree?


----------



## Nailsbeats (Feb 17, 2009)

While you are digging up the footage Jak, can you spare a picture of that grapple, I'd like to build 1 or 3.


----------



## 1I'dJak (Feb 17, 2009)

here's some pics of my 'claw'...its not the best design...alot of stress on some welds... a buddy of my got some better ones made up, but at 3 bills each i'll wait till i'm flush... I've got some good pics of some claw shots but gotta convert them to digi....


----------



## oldirty (Feb 17, 2009)

thanks jak!

hey nails, if you making them things put one together for me bud. thanks!


----------



## treeclimber101 (Feb 17, 2009)

rahtreelimbs said:


> What I am talking about is working your way up a limb that is almost like walking uphill. You don't have anything other than the bark to grab on to. You need to use your feet against the limb and alternate between your climbing line and your safety lanyard to work your way up. I have yet to master this method. Sometimes double crotching works, but sometimes you can't get your climbing around anything to use this method. Any insight would be helpful. Thanx, Rich.


if the top of the tree is taller than your furthest limb walk start at the top throw your tail over the best crotch at the branch end and let go to the ground. have the ground guy hold the tail and decend , when you reach the branch from above it throw your lanyard around and pull yourself to the tip or fold the tree up to you a branch that long will fold often a good bit.


----------



## TreeTopKid (Feb 17, 2009)

oldirty said:


> thanks jak!
> 
> hey nails, if you making them things put one together for me bud. thanks!



Me too! Do you do mail order!?


----------



## Nailsbeats (Feb 17, 2009)

Thanks for the shots Jak, that thing is money in the bank. 

One question, does it have 2 or 3 claws? Maybe 4 like the Rock Exotica?

Give me some time guys and I will see what I can do for ya.


----------



## Adkpk (Feb 17, 2009)

I could find a use for one of those. I will put the landlord to the task come spring. But if your going to make them in quantity Nails maybe I would buy one of yours.


----------



## 1I'dJak (Feb 18, 2009)

The grapple has 3 legs on it....I think four would be too grabby for my application.... if it lands in the wrong spot you gotta fish it back and four legs my make it too grabby...Make sure you really test the strength of it...I had a weld brake, had a clawback (claw letting go) which resulting and a swing back and a bit of a ride on my rappel line....I know some guys that climb with two claws....one a bit smaller as back-up too avoided the dreaded 'no-man's land' situation...


----------



## Rickytree (Feb 19, 2009)

Hey 1I'dJak did you buy yours or homemade? What is the cost? Rock exotica look very big and kinda pricey. and where to order from?


----------



## 1I'dJak (Feb 20, 2009)

all mine have been fabricated by local guys...costs ranged from $100-$300... Few more paycheques and I think I'm gonna buy the $300 one...awesome design, I'll post pics of it when i get it..


----------



## beastmaster (Feb 20, 2009)

This might work for ya. Place a friction saver around the branch then run your safety though the rings of the fraction saver, it'll choke the limb when there is pressure on it and is easily advanced. I use it on citrus doras eucalyptus trees.and it works great


----------



## newbym (Feb 20, 2009)

beastmaster said:


> This might work for ya. Place a friction saver around the branch then run your safety though the rings of the fraction saver, it'll choke the limb when there is pressure on it and is easily advanced. I use it on citrus doras eucalyptus trees.and it works great



:agree2:

Just make sure that you don't use this set up to come to the ground on, you'll just have to go back up the tree to retrieve the stuck FS because your knot will never pull through the first ring... and yes, I had to learn that one the hard way, like most my lessons.


----------

