# Tuning a saw for milling



## BigOakAdot (Dec 8, 2014)

Hey guys,
I am new to milling and have read multiple posts about tuning a saw specifically for milling. 

I'm pretty much clueless when it comes to tuning in general. I know a lot of people do it by sound, but I have no idea what to listen for. 

All I basically know is it has to do with adjusting the screws, that's it. Can anyone recommend how to get started on learning to tune a saw? Maybe a YouTube tutorial or something?

Thanks guys. 

BOA


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## Jim Timber (Dec 8, 2014)

I've been tuning by ear, but brown santa is bringing my tach today.

You want the saw a little bogged down (too much fuel) milling because it keeps the piston from getting as hot as it would if you tuned it to a clean burn. Just not so rich that the saw labors in the cut.


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## jrhannum (Dec 8, 2014)

We noobs need to know how to deal with the barriers to needle adjustment (without screwing-up the needle) that must be done before ya try to go outside the "factory" settings -- as "too rich" (to have cooling via fuel) is prolly too-polluting for our Air Resources Board. I have toasted two top ends; maybe 'cause I did not do the tuning correctly? It is still mystery to me.


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## Jim Timber (Dec 8, 2014)

We have EPA induced "limiters" here too. I call removing them "jailbreaking" because the process isn't that different than throwing out the firmware on a mobile phone who's maker doesn't want you messing with it's parameters either.

At any rate - the limiters are easily defeated on every saw I've encountered. Some require pulling the needle out, and some come off the outside of the needle without needing to remove them.

Once the limiters are removed, your carb needs to be set to the "base line" (factory default) settings, and that's 1-1/4 turn from lightly seated (screwed all the way in). From this initial setting, you then start the saw and begin dialing it in.

There's some threads in the chainsaw section on how to tune your saw, so I'll suggest you look at those rather than me reciting it.


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## BobL (Dec 8, 2014)

I started by learning how to do a regular time using the service manual.

While the enriching of a the fuel air mix for milling can be done by ear it's easier to use a tacho and simply drop the revs by around 500 rpm the


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## kimosawboy (Dec 8, 2014)

I used to be the 'saw guy' on a spacing crew for a few years. One of the first things I did for the new guys, with there new saws,was to take away there tuning driver. Of course one year a new guy got ahold of a tuning screwdriver and proceeded to '''tune''' 4 saws, needless to say he had to buy 4 new saws.
All I can say to the new saw people is to read your manual, tune only what is called for. Or better yet take your saw into the shop and talk to the saw guy, Most of the saw shop guys I know would be willing to spend ten minutes showing you how its done.
But once your jets are set you should leave well enough alone.


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## Jim Timber (Dec 8, 2014)

What about when there's a 50F temp change between when the saw was tuned last?

Set it and forget it is how folks burn up saws here in MN. Tune it in the spring, run it all summer too rich, then lean death come January.


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## jbighump (Dec 8, 2014)

I tune year round....remember the colder the weather the leaner the saw is..the factory setting on my ms460 was way lean when the weather cooled off considerably.. I use a tach for a baseline and go by ear from there,another thing is to run a good oil 32:1...


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## HuskStihl (Dec 8, 2014)

Milling is torture on saws. You want a quality synthetic at 40:1 or more, and you want it to just clean up (stop 4-stroking) under working load. For typical use, I tune to quit 4 stroking under light pressure


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## Jim Timber (Dec 8, 2014)

It was 15F today and my 357xp wouldn't stay running at idle cold until I bumped up the L jet. That was last ran in my 55F shop.

Winter here - I have a 1/8" flat screw driver in the same pocket with my scrench.

The Mrs. confirmed my tach arrived today. Too bad it's 110 miles south.


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## BigOakAdot (Dec 12, 2014)

I appreciate all the replies. I gotta say I'm still pretty lost, and it sounds as if anyone who tries tuning a saw who is a noob (like myself) they end up burning her up. 

My buddy works for a tree care company, I'm gonna see if he knows anyone who could give me a hand. If anyone is in the Philly area and has some free time let me know.


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## betterbuilt (Dec 12, 2014)

I'm a little hard of hearing and it took me a while. I started videoing myself so I could hear it run. Eventually I could hear the 2 stoking noise. I think part of the reason it took me so long was the 066 I was trying to tune had an air leak or something. I couldn't make that thing 2 stroke to save my soul. Eventually it died and I got the 076. I think around that time I came across Brads video.  Now I can hear the difference. It saved my 044 this summer. I was cutting and it leaned right out. I shut it down right away and found out the fuel filter was clogged. 

Here is Brad Thread on tuning. http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/video-how-to-tune-a-chainsaw.113538/


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## beachcomber (Dec 16, 2014)

Madsens website has a tutorial


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## ZachAK (Dec 18, 2014)

I'm pretty new to tuning a saw for milling, too, and I didn't get it, either.

$100 bucks buys a wireless tachometer, and it sure helped verify idle and wide open throttle for me. I'm at best a reluctant mechanic, but I was happy to learn that what my ear is used to follows the officially recommended RPMs pretty well. I bought a Fast-Tac and it seems to work well, from these guys: http://www.manddsmallengine.com/tinytach/fast.html

I followed Madsen's advice as best as I could, plus talking to others locally.

Here's a link to recommended RPMs.

And be sure to remember what BobL said, drop it down 500 RPM for milling.

If you haven't tuned yet, it might be wise to keep track of where your saw started. Just count how many turns in (ie. clock-wise/rightsy-tightsy) each of your three screws will go before bottoming out. Turn back to to the original setting. This might be easier the first time with cowlings off, just looking at the screws with your driver handy.

I can't vouch for the advice, but a number of older guys have mentioned to me that wide open throttle (WOT) is usually best set at about 1 1/2 turns out. This seems to match my 360 and 660 right on, but then you want to turn it down a little for milling. Use this advice at your own risk, because I suspect it may have been mostly true with old saws but not always so today...

Best of luck!


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## Jim Timber (Dec 18, 2014)

My echo's carb is way off from my husky/jonny's. I think it's over 4 turns out on the low jet. If I have the high set at 2 turns out it'll hit 14,600 when it's supposed to max at 11-13k. Of course it's super lean when it revs that high, and falls flat on it's face in a cut, so I kept fattening it up until it stayed under 13k and then put it in wood to find it got it's balls back.

Getting a tach was a good move for me. I'm sure my saws will be happier as well.


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## ZachAK (Dec 19, 2014)

Jim Timber said:


> I kept fattening it up until it stayed under 13k and then put it in wood to find it got it's balls back..



Funny, and wise advice!


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## pete_86 (Jan 28, 2015)

Maybe, I'm wrong but tuning isn't much of a science, just gotta pay attention. I'm still somewhat new to saws, but tuned model gasoline engines $600 per engine and up using a tach and ear, along with lawn equipment. If you get a good throttle response and it runs properly most often you're near a good tune. Ex, no stumbling under load on high end and a proper "note" of the 2 stroke whine when on high end and loaded. Just load the saw and pull out of wood, it should 4 cycle sing to you. I tune until it just starts to 2 cycle sing under a standard load. Mind you under a slight load, soft woods smaller log it may not fully 2 cycle and I think that's fine on occasional use or you may be running slight bit rich and have some carbon. 

Like mentioned 500 rpm back off equals just a slight richening. When I tuned my model aircraft engines, I'd tune it for peak on ground and than richen just a tad on rich side. Under load and in flight, the engine tends to lean out to a rich of peak in air for optimal tune. Sort of like putting into wood and pulling out the saw. 

I run 32:1 myself, others like Bill run 50:1 with good results. I don't have issues with the exhaust at 32:1, some oils smoke more than others and I try to keep my head away from it and use wind to blow it away from me. 
Getting on the second yr with my saw and no problems. I think guys have problems when they try to squeeze every last drop of power out of an engine. You're not gaining much, just start off with big enough to begin with. Tuning is important, but so is keeping inlet air clean and temps in check. Get to know the saw, how hot does it usually run and pay attention to it and the noises it makes. Check your plug, one indication of proper tune. 

Figured to chime in, hoping to help others, and or to keep thread alive if needed. When I bought my saw, owners son said 50:1 be fine for milling these stihls were designed to run 70:1 or something like that. I asked the owner if he sold tachs and got a look like, oh no we've got one of those nerdy techy guys here, haha. So never did buy a tach and don't plan too. I just find I don't need one. I've played a bit leaning bit more, richening a bit more and can't really find much differance in cutting speed. Slight rich may mean cleaning out carbon, but doubt it'll kill saw and regardless of tune you're sucking in exhaust to you're lungs. Why I like a breeze going. Every time I mill though I get into a cut and pull back to hear the note change, no change either to rich or too lean. Works for me and a no brainer. Also, if you can let it idle 30 sec or so and than gun it and have a good response with no dying than it's not too rich at idle. 

I have to laugh, my gf's dad a firewood cutter and logger along with another guy into saws and guy stuff (LOL) had no idea what I meant by 2 cycling or 4 cycling in a cut. I had to show them and describe the sound, took them a bit to pick up on it as my saw doesn't go crazy with the 2 cycling nor the 4 cycling, happy medium of both. when engines are too lean, you'd think they'd have lack of power and people would know. IDK, LOL!

Hope this helps guys! Everyone has good info, incase anyone needed more or for any stumblers upon this thread.


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## pete_86 (Jan 28, 2015)

Oh, and i've never tuned a 4 stroke engine. They're pretty much set it and forget it. I slightly re adjust my tune in winter or summer. Remember small adjustments, just till you feel it move, 1/8 turn or less is all usually needed. I think guys get in trouble here. 

As far as smelly exhaust, I'm going band mill soon as I can and keeping CS mill for slabs


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## BigOakAdot (Jan 28, 2015)

Pete,
Thanks a lot for the detailed response. I think I'm understanding what needs to be done but not certain of the different sounds. I remember watching the video above and getting a feel for the difference in sound from 2-stroke and 4-stroke a month or two ago. Won't know for sure until I do it in person. 

I've taken a break from milling for the winter and will give tuning a try in early spring. Thanks again. 

BOA


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## Ferguson system (Jan 29, 2015)

Here is a link to a good carbtuning guid: http://www.qdma.com/articles/how-to-tune-a-chainsaw-carburetor


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## pete_86 (Feb 16, 2015)

BigOakAdot said:


> Pete,
> Thanks a lot for the detailed response. I think I'm understanding what needs to be done but not certain of the different sounds. I remember watching the video above and getting a feel for the difference in sound from 2-stroke and 4-stroke a month or two ago. Won't know for sure until I do it in person.
> 
> I've taken a break from milling for the winter and will give tuning a try in early spring. Thanks again.
> ...



Hey, no problem hope it helps. If you need more help consider this:

A trick with model engines I used, pinch fuel line to starve of fuel at idle. If engine speeds up and dies than you're at a good tune. Should be a noticeable change, no change at all than too lean. This works for checking tune at idle pretty well. With a saw could listen to it as it runs out of fuel or needle nose pliars reach in to pinch line. 

Remember when you richen the oil/fuel mix with more oil, you're going to richen carb. I don't recall on mine how much richer than factory I'm running. Want to say around half a turn on both. Had the limiters set so they'd stop at the perfect tuned and left plenty of room to richen more. Easy to get things back that way, than one day I couldn't get it leaned enough so had to reset it, think I switched oil brand. 

Youtube vids are great from reputable source, just remember "fat is where it's at", LOL. AKA, just a tad rich. I hardly every touch my carb and I mill off an on all yr. Some days it could be small tad richer or small tad leaner, but still in the range of an ok tune. I think when you tune more on the lean side you run into having to adjust more often. Don't forget you'll lose power when you get too lean just like too rich. Shoot for the middle. When you check for in the cut, make sure you've go something big enough that'll actually load the saw. I mentioned can barely tell in some soft woods or small logs. If that's all you mill than tune for that, but mine only really just but steadily sings in med large logs. 

When I'm not milling, my saw doesn't quite have the power or snap to it but I don't bother to re tune as it's mainly a milling saw where it runs a perfect tune for that loading. It does cut ok, just ever so slightly noticeable.


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## IanB22 (Feb 17, 2015)

I have to say, if you have a 20 degree temp swing, you'll be ok.
However, if you tune in fall, then go to cut in the snow at 40 degree swing or more, you are going to be lean. No question about it.

Use a tach, noise, how it cuts, anything, but re-tune the saw in the cold weather (especially the big saw for milling).


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## 4x4American (Feb 18, 2015)

I don't think anyone posted this yet, but this guide here is one of the best you'll find on saw carb tuning:
http://www.madsens1.com/saw_carb_tune.htm

Mind you, their guide is for crosscutting. You don't want to tune the saw too fat, or too lean. If you tune it too fat you'll get a lot of carbon build up and that can ruin the jug/slug, and if you're too lean, well you'll seize it. 

You will want it a bit on the fat side (rich). Another way you can see how it is tuned, is to shut it off while it's in the cut, (but kill it fairly soon, don't cut it off towards the end of the rip because then the saw is hot. Try and make sure the saw is fairly cool.) Anyways, kill it when its at full tilt under load, and pull the spark plug/examine it. You want a milky chocolate brown color, perhaps a bit on the darker side for milling. 

What saw are you running, what length bar, what octane gas (ethanol/non-ethanol).

Tuning the saw there are some prerequisites besides turning the adjusters. You want to make sure that the gas tank is full. You want to make sure that the air filter is clean. And you want to make sure that the saw is warmed up. If your saw has a winter/summer flap thingy-ma-bobber, adjust it accordingly. For Stihl, they recommend that above 50*F you are in summer mode, and below you are in winter mode. A tach is nice, but not crucial. Watch a few videos to be able to listen for the four stroking.

Also, if you have a rev-limited coil, it could be running lean, but sound like it's fourstroking.


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## BigOakAdot (Feb 19, 2015)

4x4American said:


> I don't think anyone posted this yet, but this guide here is one of the best you'll find on saw carb tuning:
> http://www.madsens1.com/saw_carb_tune.htm
> 
> Mind you, their guide is for crosscutting. You don't want to tune the saw too fat, or too lean. If you tune it too fat you'll get a lot of carbon build up and that can ruin the jug/slug, and if you're too lean, well you'll seize it.
> ...


A lot of good jnfo coming in thanks guys. I haven't messed with my saws recently it's been like 0 degrees here,
But I'm eager to get out there once the weather breaks. 

I have been running a practically brand new ms 660 with a 36" bar. I've milled a few cherry logs ranging from 20 to 29" diameter so far. Never even thought about tuning my saw because I'm a newb when it comes to milling. I soon found out I needed a aux oiler due to dulling chains and I did that at the end of the fall last year. 

Fwiw I was conscious of giving the saw breaks in between each pass by letting it idle. Tried my best to prevent it from getting too hot during milling. As for fuel I run 40:1 with 93 octane ethanol fuel. I found some crazy racing fuel at a local Sunoco that's ethanol free but it's some insane 100 plus octane. Not sure if that's good for a saw or not?

I recently purchased an 076 from a member on here and plan on using that exclusively for slabbing. I'll be using the 660 more for smaller diameter milling using a 25" bar. Thanks again for all the info and help guys!


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## thenne1713 (Feb 25, 2015)

The rule is, "When in doubt, go richer. Never go leaner until you are SURE you are too rich." Rich will not overheat/ score/ gall. Too lean will scream, idle too fast, have no power, die at idle, hard start, etc. Too lean is NOT always carb, it CAN BE boots/ bolts/ screws/crank seals/ gaskets. Hope this helps. (the OTHER rule is "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"


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## BobL (Feb 26, 2015)

BigOakAdot said:


> Fwiw I was conscious of giving the saw breaks in between each pass by letting it idle. Tried my best to prevent it from getting too hot during milling.


One of the best ways to do this is to sharpen often.



> As for fuel I run 40:1 with 93 octane ethanol fuel. I found some crazy racing fuel at a local Sunoco that's ethanol free but it's some insane 100 plus octane. Not sure if that's good for a saw or not?



The main benefit of using higher octane is because as soon as it leave the refinery the octane rating starts to drop and the older the gas and the more air it is exposed to the lower the octane. Starting out with a higher octane means you can on average store it for longer and it should be OK for longer. If you are going to use it right away it won't make much difference or hurt the saw,


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## BigOakAdot (Feb 26, 2015)

BobL said:


> One of the best ways to do this is to sharpen often.
> 
> 
> 
> The main benefit of using higher octane is because as soon as it leave the refinery the octane rating starts to drop and the older the gas and the more air it is exposed to the lower the octane. Starting out with a higher octane means you can on average store it for longer and it should be OK for longer. If you are going to use it right away it won't make much difference or hurt the saw,


So would you say it's worth spending the extra coin on that racing fuel? It's significantly more expensive but for as little as I mill wouldn't make too much of a difference. 

I'm referring more to the fact that it's the only ethanol free fuel in my area not the extra octane. Thanks.


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## jrhannum (Feb 26, 2015)

with all the so-called "Mini Tach" s being sold out there for $15 to $200, how does a newb find the right one for tuning the big Huski?


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