# The BIL Mill Upgrade



## BobL (Oct 20, 2008)

Thought I start a WIP thread about the BIL Mill upgrade.

Here's some of the bits in comparison to the current mill.





The new rails are 65" (Can fit up to a 64" Bar) compared to 53" (52" bar)
The new bar is 60" compared to current 42"
Another cross bar will also be added between the rails.
The white rectangular strips are UHMWPE strips which are screwed to the bottom of the rails to act as skids.

There's not much more to it although I do plan to add an anti-bar-sag gizmo.

Here's a shot from another viewpoint.





Cheers


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## woodshop (Oct 20, 2008)

Bob how much slicker do you think the UHMWPE strips will make it? You don't think to slick? I've used some on jigs, and often I want at least SOME resistance, but that slick plastic is like ice on ice. For some applications it goes to easy. Let us know it does here.


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## BobL (Oct 20, 2008)

The current BIL Mill has UHMWPE strips. Initially they are a bit slippery but once that hard shine wears off they not so bad. They are as much protective strips for the ally rails as they are to reduce sliding friction on the log rails.


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## irishcountry (Oct 21, 2008)

As always great work!! I wished you designed the measurment gauge and locking mechinism on my GB mill!! thanks for the pics


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## BobL (Oct 26, 2008)

Here is a bit more progress with the upgrade.

I have replaced the previous rails with longer rails and added an additional cross rail.

And added an extension to the top lengthwise ally tube handle. Adding an extension is easier than carrying a whole spare tube.

It was very simple to lengthen the mill and is something that could even be done on the job if the other bar, chain and ails are available. Takes about 10 minutes to switch between bar lengths.

Here is a comparison with the existing 42" bar.



As reported elsewhere the bar sag is significant, 0.09". In this photo I have place an old ally rail on top of the bar and the gap between the bar and the rail represents the sag.






I'm working on a BIL Mill grade antisag bar device. BIL has some wild ideas which we are working on.

I have posted a similar picture elsewhere but am adding it here for completeness.


The 60" bar is a roller nose where as BIL Mill 1 outboard clamp could only handle a solid nose. The clamp has been modified with a 1/4" tensile steel bolt thru the centre of the roller nose. The clamp has steel jaws with a slot cut in it that the head and nut of the nose bolt can slide in when adjusting the chain. When complete the clamp locks the nose bolt and bar in place. I have modified all my bars to accept this arrangement.


Cutting length is 59.5"
Weight is 73 lb with a fully fueled and oiled 076.
Not exactly a light weight.

I'm not happy with the aux oiler delivery arrangement so I'm working on that at the moment.

Cheers


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## woodshop (Oct 26, 2008)

WOW... cheers indeed. What a monster. You need to patent that thing before somebody runs with your great ideas. Yeah 73lbs is a little on the heavy side to be hefting around, but considering what it can produce, not bad at all. This is not a saw you will be using to make 1x6's. For what it does, it's really not as heavy as one might expect. 

Seems as we get more an more into this we really need several csm's to be really efficient. A monster like the above for really huge slabs for solid wide natural edge table for example, and then a medium sized mill for most general work... and for smaller 8-12" dia softwoods, a small mill with a 60cc saw is plenty and would be light enough to swing around all day long. 

Great pics Bob... thanks. I'm interested in that "BIL Mill grade anti sag bar device" you mentioned to solve that .09 sag. Seems like an impossible task.


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## DRB (Oct 26, 2008)

Nice fab work BobL. I always enjoy reading your posts. Can't wait to see the saw dust fly.


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## BobL (Oct 26, 2008)

Cheers guys. Yeah it is a bit of a monster. In most situations I will be using this one with a helper. Not only because of the mill but also because of the size of the slabs it will generate. Just getting such big slabs off the log and onto the loader will be difficult. I have two candidate logs in mind for the big mill but it will be some time before I get to them.

After I finish making the anti sag device I will return to the 42" rails but install a new 42" sprocket bar, and new sprocket and chains.


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## BobL (Oct 27, 2008)

Well I said BIL was working on a different antisagging bar devices and here is prototype A - of plan 3.

The idea is to use something to stop a long CS bar from sagging as the cut is started- once the bar is half way into the cut the bar will stay level and the antisagging device can be removed. The typical thing used is a wooden or plastic hook or lever that can be removed easily. The awkwardness comes in that a fixed length hook only works for one slab thickness and one needs a variable length hook for the different slab thicknesses.

Here is the gismo.


It's basically a magnet attached to the end of a bit of allthread which is bolted to the mill cross rail.

The magnet is from an old hard drive so it is incredibly strong. I just drilled a couple of holes in the supporting steel surround and bolted it to a piece of square ally tube.


Here the magnet is lifted well above the bar and shows the biggest gap between the bar and a straight bit of ally laying on top of the bar. The gap is 0.09". Interestingly the max gap not in the middle of the bar, its closer to the nose of the bar as the bar bolts help hold the inboard section of the bar level.
Here magnet is attached and wingnuts are adjusted to remove the gap.





The magnet is strong enough to bend the bar out of shape upwards by nearly half an inch before it gives way

By turning the wing nuts on the all thread the height of the magnet can be adjusted to accommodate different bar heights ie different slab widths.

Of course the proof will be in the actual cutting. A couple of refinements will be needed, one is a quick release mechanism to remove the antisag device once the bar has established the level cut.


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## BobL (Oct 28, 2008)

I picked up a selection of rare earth magnets at work today to see if I could do better than what I already had. The system I had for testing them was a nylon cord attached to the magnet at one end - thru a pulley and attached to a bucket at the other end. I fixed the pulley to the roof above my vice and attached the magnet to the vice and then added tools to the bucket. The best magnets were my original hard drive magnet and a 1" magnet both of which would support ~35 lb before letting go. I also used the same system to measure I need 5.5 lb of of upward force to remove the gap so I figure there is plenty of force left over as a holding force.

Next I decided to make a quick release mechanism to the antisag device.
Close up of brass locking rings.


4 turns of the top ring and 1-2 of the bottom and the magnet can just be levered away. Not, I suppose super quick, but good enough for a trial run.

Next a re-jig of the aux oiler.

Cheers


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## irishcountry (Oct 28, 2008)

Sweet post!! As soon as you said anti-sag thats what I was thinking would be slick too magnets hope it works out I found a website a long time ago think if you search for herbach&rademan you should find it they have lots of surplus motors magnets and other stuff for people who tinker might be worth a look for some magnets. I forgot whats stronger rare earth or man made but they have a show here in the US called mythbusters they got ahold of some monster magnets that had tons of pull and I thought at one time I seen them as a surplus Item on that site I mentioned. Anyway your a tinkerer/inventive type might want to check it out!! Hope it comes in handy again great work thinking out of box! Thanks for the pics take care irishcountry


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## 820wards (Oct 29, 2008)

BobL said:


> I picked up a selection of rare earth magnets at work today to see if I could do better than what I already had. The system I had for testing them was a nylon cord attached to the magnet at one end - thru a pulley and attached to a bucket at the other end. I fixed the pulley to the roof above my vice and attached the magnet to the vice and then added tools to the bucket. The best magnets were my original hard drive magnet and a 1" magnet both of which would support ~35 lb before letting go. I also used the same system to measure I need 5.5 lb of of upward force to remove the gap so I figure there is plenty of force left over as a holding force.
> 
> 
> Bob,
> ...


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## woodshop (Oct 29, 2008)

Interesting... great post Bob. My thoughts seem to follow yours... as soon as I saw how you were doing this my mind started trying to figure out a quick release mechanism for that thing. Ya know, since it is only really pulling UP on that long bar, why does it need a brass nut or anything for that matter on the underside of where the threaded rod is positioned up top? Why wouldn't it be kinda just held there in place by the bar/magnet trying it pull it downward? Then if you design some sort of rocking mechanism down at the magnet part you could just pull on that upper threaded rod and thus "rock" that strong magnet off its position on the rod once you bury the bar halfway, barely losing a step. 

Strong magnets... got one from an ancient huge floorstanding 100MB (enormous capacity in those days) hard drive that was about the size of a modern dishwasher. This three pound magnet was so strong that when I put it on my metal surfaces in the shop the ONLY way to get it off was to slide it over partially off the edge before you could pry it off.


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## BobL (Oct 29, 2008)

woodshop said:


> Interesting... great post Bob. My thoughts seem to follow yours... as soon as I saw how you were doing this my mind started trying to figure out a quick release mechanism for that thing. Ya know, since it is only really pulling UP on that long bar, why does it need a brass nut or anything for that matter on the underside of where the threaded rod is positioned up top? Why wouldn't it be kinda just held there in place by the bar/magnet trying it pull it downward?



Thanks WS - yeah I had though a drop fit would suffice as well. But after my experience with the Aux Oiler tank cap (a chunky brass screw cap) which came loose and fell on the chain and was flung into my face, everything on the mill gets locked down. I can just imagine the anti sag device some how being knocked (eg I forget its there and it falls on the chain!!!) BTW the aux oiler cap is now plastic!



> Then if you design some sort of rocking mechanism down at the magnet part you could just pull on that upper threaded rod and thus "rock" that strong magnet off its position on the rod once you bury the bar halfway, barely losing a step.



To remove the magnet I drop the bottom screw half an inch and just keep turning the top screw. With the bar held in the kerf , turning the top screw easily breaks the mag bond. Then I just lift the gizmo out. I'm going to fit a bracket so it can the screw onto the mill above the rails so it's always readily available



> Strong magnets... got one from an ancient huge floorstanding 100MB (enormous capacity in those days) hard drive that was about the size of a modern dishwasher. This three pound magnet was so strong that when I put it on my metal surfaces in the shop the ONLY way to get it off was to slide it over partially off the edge before you could pry it off.



We have some really serious magnets at work in our mass spectrometer. The biggest weights 6 tons, draws 70 A and is water cooled. When operating it is recommended people stay 3 ft away from in or it can do some serious damage to anyone holding a piece of magnetic material eg it will drive a steel tool into your hand if it happens to get in between the magnet and hand. The funniest thing is key rings spontaneously trying to get out through pockets.


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## woodshop (Oct 29, 2008)

BobL said:


> Thanks WS - yeah I had though a drop fit would suffice as well. But after my experience with the Aux Oiler tank cap (a chunky brass screw cap) which came loose and fell on the chain and was flung into my face, everything on the mill gets locked down. I can just imagine the anti sag device some how being knocked (eg I forget its there and it falls on the chain!!!) .



Makes sense... yeah kinda forgot you have a moving chain there going on... sheeeeesh. With something that vibrates as much as a csm, anything that CAN move or fall in a certain direction eventually will at some point.


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## BobL (Oct 29, 2008)

Thanks for the tip Jerry.

What's happening to your mill?



820wards said:


> BobL said:
> 
> 
> > Magnets from the back of microwave tubes are very strong too, and they have a hole in the center. I epoxy them to the back side of tuna fish cans and use them for putting screw/bolts in so I don't loose them. You darn near have to pry them off. That would also work for keeping those long milling bars from sagging. Just find a guy who repairs appliances and he'll probably have a bunch of them stuck to the walls of his repair truck.
> ...


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## 820wards (Oct 30, 2008)

BobL said:


> Thanks for the tip Jerry.
> 
> What's happening to your mill?
> 
> ...


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## BobL (Oct 30, 2008)

820wards said:


> Since retiring last September I have been in the remodel mode on the house. I hurt my shoulder a couple of months back so that really set me back. As for the mill I just picked up a throttle cable that will work quite well. I used a bicycle brake handle for the throttle, something similar to yours. After that I only need to plumb the oil lines for the bar and make my exhaust pipe. Seems like I would have plenty of time to do these few things to get started milling, but it's just not happening yet. I also play drums in a band and we have been rehearsing and playing a lot of gigs that has occupied much of my time. I promise I will get back to the mill.



Sounds like a busy life - better than the other way around I reckon. I too have sore shoulders (bursitis). Doctor says I shouldn't be doing any heavy lifting at all but I notice I feel better after a day with the mill so I keep going back for more. 



> You have been doing a great job on your mill and with a 52" bar, wow, you must have some pretty big trees there down under.


It's a 60" bar (it's actually a bit longer that that) with 59" of cut - that nose holding system I worked really does wonders for cutting length.

Re: big trees. I'll still be mainly using the 42" bar to cut most stuff. I have 2 logs that will need the longer bar but hope to eventually get hold of some more.

Anyway looking forward to seeing your finished mill sometime.


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## BobL (Oct 30, 2008)

*remote aux oil control*

This is no biggie even though it has taken me several evenings to sort out.

When stopping midway along a slab, eg to refuel, I can't just reach across the log to turn the aux oil off so I have to walk around the long.

This is because my aux oil talk is down low and the taps are underneath it like this.





With a longer bar the problem is only going to get get worse.

What often happens is the walk around the log to turn off the oiler becomes a PITA so I often just let it drip while I make a quick adjustment, then I forget it's on and I get distracted doing something else and before long half the aux oil tank has emptied itself onto the ground. Here is my solution.

Old bike gear change lever.


Connect cable to modified tap and spring mechanism.






Even though I have a needle valve installed for fine flow control the click gear lever also seems to provide reasonably reproducible flow control as well!


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## BobL (Nov 3, 2008)

Medium BIL mill was able to be moved around easily on a sack trolley like this.


But with the new rails on BIL Mill 2, the trolley is too small. I was going to extend this trolley or make a new one but as I like to lift the whole mill and trolley into my van as one, BIL Mill 2 plus trolley was just getting too heavy so here is my solution.


The wheels are from the old trolley and are bolted onto the ends of the rails. Net effect is the new mill plus wheels is lighter than the old mill plus trolley.
Funny dog leg axle mounts are so I can use the same axle as on the trolley.

What colour should I paint it?

Cheers


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## woodshop (Nov 3, 2008)

BobL said:


> ...What colour should I paint it?...



...fire engine red of course!!!  

Another excellent interesting post. So... those wheels won't get in the way when milling?


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## BobL (Nov 3, 2008)

woodshop said:


> ...fire engine red of course!!!
> 
> Another excellent interesting post. So... those wheels won't get in the way when milling?



Thanks WS, a good suggestion!

The wheels are designed to come off when milling. The bolts don't go thru the rails - the heads slide into the top of T-Track, two turns of the wing nuts and the wheels can slide off the rails. 

I mainly added the wheels to make it easier to move the mill from my shed at the back of my house, to my van, a distance of about 50 yards down a narrow path. It also helps putting the mill into the van - ambulance style. Place the wheels on the back of the van and push the mill into the van.

At the milling yard, at the end of the day I add the wheels and wheel the mill over to the shed where I can reach with a compressor line and blow all the sawdust and gunk off the machine. 

It sounds a bit awkward but it sure beats beats carrying it.


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## BobL (Nov 7, 2008)

OK - decided the usual "volcano orange" would do.


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## glennschumann (Nov 8, 2008)

BobL

Fantastic job! With respect to the magnetic bar support, I am terrified of leaving anything not bolted down near the running chain, especially with all the vibration as well. Before I had seen your solution to the bar sag, I had considered adding an adjustment screw outboard of the tip side bar support that could be screwed down to add force to the tip end of the bar, causing the middle part of the bar to rise. The bar is acting like a cantilevered beam, and force on the opposite side of the support could be adjusted to reduce the sag on different size bars. The weight of the power head may already be providing some of the balancing force which may be why you see the most sag at the tip end of your set up. This strategy does use up precious bar length, however.

The other idea was to add shims in the tip side bar support to make the clamping surface less 'parallel' to the bar, resulting in the same adjustment.

Your set up seems to apply the least amount of bending force to the bar which I think is very good, and you actually built yours... I just got 20,000 lbs (9000 kilos?) of gravel delivered yesterday for a garage slab project... milling the 28" maple log, and modifying the mill will have to wait.


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## woodshop (Nov 8, 2008)

BobL said:


> ...The wheels are designed to come off when milling. The bolts don't go thru the rails - the heads slide into the top of T-Track, two turns of the wing nuts and the wheels can slide off the rails...


Well... that makes sense, was a dumb question now that I think about it. 

I like how you seem to always take the time to finish stuff, like a nice paint job on a piece you make. When I make jigs for the shop, I'm usually too anxious to try it, tweak it and then put it into use. Thus even though at that point it looks like Fred Flintstone made it, I often fail to take that extra time right away to put a nice finish on the jig, sand or round over the edges etc. Only after I've gotten it dialed in and used it for a while and get tired of seeing it unfinished do I take the time to put the finishing touches on it.


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## BobL (Nov 8, 2008)

glennschumann said:


> ... I just got 20,000 lbs (9000 kilos?) of gravel delivered yesterday for a garage slab project... milling the 28" maple log, and modifying the mill will have to wait.



Too bad about that but I guess those sorts of jobs have to be done.

I understand what you mean about the cantilevered systems and that it uses up bar length. I think AggieWB uses straight tension on 60" bars and says it works well enough. Side tension never gets all the sag out anyway, I worked out I will need about 450 lb of side tension to reduce the sag by half (0.09 to 0.045"). I can't do that because I only have a single ally tube on the outboard side and it will just bend. 

I tried out the magnetic clamp yesterday on the 42" bar. I was using a brand new regular (30º top plate) chain) - I thought this would make a good test because this type of chain produces major starting vibes compared to 10º top plate chain. Anyway, the 30º top plate produces a large degree of sideways vibe (grab) on the timber so the first few tenths of an inch contact with the log has the bar bouncing around like crazy. 

Anyway - the clamp failed on the first attempt! Not the magnet - that was stuck fast, the vibes were just too much for the tightening force produced by the knurled brass knobs. So I added some locking wingnuts and it worked fine. I also tried it out on 10º top plate chain - wingnuts not needed there. I'd like to have a quicker way of releasing it so I'm looking at some sort of hinge arrangement.


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## BobL (Nov 8, 2008)

woodshop said:


> I like how you seem to always take the time to finish stuff, like a nice paint job on a piece you make. When I make jigs for the shop, I'm usually too anxious to try it, tweak it and then put it into use. Thus even though at that point it looks like Fred Flintstone made it, I often fail to take that extra time right away to put a nice finish on the jig, sand or round over the edges etc. Only after I've gotten it dialed in and used it for a while and get tired of seeing it unfinished do I take the time to put the finishing touches on it.



I'm the opposite, but it also has it's downfalls. I want to get it as finished as quickly as possible and sometimes don't do enough testing. For example, one of the neat things about having the BIL mill on the sack trolley was that with the rails overhanging the ends the mill would "free stand upright" with the wheels being one set of contact points and the rails being the other set. This made it easier to move around as one could leave it standing upright while one opened a gate or a van door etc. The other good reason to stand it upright was to clean it using a compressor. The new jockey wheel arrangement I made does not allow for this so I have to place it on the ground or lean it up against something when doing these things.

I figured I need to weld some stubs on the wheel supports that it can stand upright on its own

This means ruining the new paint job! [email protected][email protected]#! - I might bolt them on instead??


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## BobL (Nov 15, 2008)

Turned out I didn't to do any welding and ruin my paint job.

Added some black poly pipe to the end of one of the handles



And here it is standing upright. Good for cleaning down with the compressor.


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## Dai Sensei (Nov 15, 2008)

I haven't moved mine around much yet, but your idea certainly has a lot of merit, especially for a heavy steel beast like mine. I'm sure I have a couple of old billy cart wheels on an axle some where in the garden shed.


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## BobL (Nov 15, 2008)

Dai Sensei said:


> . . . . . I'm sure I have a couple of old billy cart wheels on an axle some where in the garden shed.



Sounds Ideal!


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## demographic (Mar 8, 2009)

BobL said:


> This is no biggie even though it has taken me several evenings to sort out.
> 
> When stopping midway along a slab, eg to refuel, I can't just reach across the log to turn the aux oil off so I have to walk around the long.
> 
> ...



Could it be possible to drill a small hole in the chainsaw inlet and fix a vacuum pipe onto it?

I don't know if its been brought up on here before (I did a search for the term "Scotoiler" but found no results) but theres an automatic chain oiling device used on motorcycles called a Scotoiler*, it uses vacuum from a pipe connected to the inlet rubbers to move a diaphragm which opens a valve, the valve is adjustable for flow (although I doubt it would flow enough instandard form for chainsaw.) and the valve allows oil to gravity feed onto the motorcycle chain.

The pipe thats connected to the inlet doesn't allow air to go into the engine as its other end has the diaphragm so it doesn't alter carburation.

Theres more information about them on THIS PDF and the general site is HERE.

Theres a version called the Touring Kit which has a resevoir that fits onto the end of the dispensing tube and the whole thing only allows oil to flow when the engines on.


They are pretty expensive when bought new but most mororcycle breakers over here have some that they have removed from dead motorcycles for a much cheaper price, the seals are compatable with chainsaw oil cos thats what I have used on my bike chain before.

Any use to you?
Admittedly, I've not even looked at the inlet stub of mine to see if a vacuum pipe could be fitted to it.


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## BobL (Mar 8, 2009)

demographic said:


> Could it be possible to drill a small hole in the chainsaw inlet and fix a vacuum pipe onto it?
> 
> I don't know if its been brought up on here before (I did a search for the term "Scotoiler" but found no results) but theres an automatic chain oiling device used on motorcycles called a Scotoiler*, it uses vacuum from a pipe connected to the inlet rubbers to move a diaphragm which opens a valve, the valve is adjustable for flow (although I doubt it would flow enough instandard form for chainsaw.) and the valve allows oil to gravity feed onto the motorcycle chain.
> 
> ...



Excellent idea but it has a couple of things that need sorting. 

One is that there are times such as when warming up and cooling down the saw, pausing to find wedges etc that the engine is running but one doesn't want the oil to flow. 

The other is running a vacuum line from the power head across the mill rails to the oiler is not that easy since the height of the power head above the oiler changes with height of cut so one would have to building a flexible extension into the pipe. This has the potential to get caught up in things. 

Another is peculiar to my mill whereby I can swap the chain out without removing the chain saw from the mill but it requires no other connection of any kind between the power head and the mill otherwise the chain cannot sneak past - this is very to difficult to explain without showing it to you. This could be gotten around with some sort of quick connect.

What I like is the principle of coupling oil flow to some aspect of engine operation - I'll be thinking about that for a while now. Thanks


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## demographic (Mar 8, 2009)

BobL said:


> Excellent idea but it has a couple of things that need sorting.
> 
> One is that there are times such as when warming up and cooling down the saw, pausing to find wedges etc that the engine is running but one doesn't want the oil to flow.
> 
> ...



Another thing thats just occured to me is that on my old 038 theres a blanked of area where the grip warmer switch fits.

I don't have the foggiest notion what voltage the coil produces, but surely it could be wired up to produce power for an electric chain oiler thats controlled by an electrical switch.

The switch can be the bog standard type that usually controlls the heating element surely?
That way it won't look out of place and its where a switch normally lives anyway.
Then a small jackplug that connects to the electrical pump?

Theres a bloke on one of the motorcycle forums that made up an electrical chain oiler device and I would have thought that his design might work in this situation.
You don't happen to know what voltage the heater generator coil chucks out do you? If its too high it can be sorted with a resistor and if to low a coil.

Maybe?

Scott.


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## Rockfarmer (Mar 8, 2009)

BobL said:


> Excellent idea but it has a couple of things that need sorting.
> 
> One is that there are times such as when warming up and cooling down the saw, pausing to find wedges etc that the engine is running but one doesn't want the oil to flow.
> 
> ...



Bob, thats why the oiler runs off the clutch drive, so it only oils/runs when the chain is spinning. Now if anyone can rig something up its you!!


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## BobL (Mar 8, 2009)

Rockfarmer said:


> Bob, thats why the oiler runs off the clutch drive, so it only oils/runs when the chain is spinning. Now if anyone can rig something up its you!!



Oh boy now that's a challenge if I ever hear one. I have already started thinking - optical sensor - gets dirty too quickly, sound level sensor - promising - small amplifier - relay switch - to EM tap - needs a battery - battery goes flat - needs an indicator LED - getting a bit technical - back to drawing board - good fun though!


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## demographic (Mar 8, 2009)

BobL said:


> Oh boy now that's a challenge if I ever hear one. I have already started thinking - optical sensor - gets dirty too quickly, sound level sensor - promising - small amplifier - relay switch - to EM tap - needs a battery - battery goes flat - needs an indicator LED - getting a bit technical - back to drawing board - good fun though!



Is there a cold weather version of your saw with the electrically heated handles?

If theres spare power avaliable from the coil (and I have read through my manual and still don't know if theres spare wires on my 038 AV super that will do it) then you might be able to use that to power it.
As thew switch is at the powerhead end its no bother to reach it, a bit of wire to the pump and a contoller for the pump.
That way the saw produces the power (might be AC but a bridge rectifier isn't hard to make) for the pump.

No fancy sensors to clog up or fail either.


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## BobL (Mar 8, 2009)

demographic said:


> Is there a cold weather version of your saw with the electrically heated handles?
> 
> If theres spare power avaliable from the coil (and I have read through my manual and still don't know if theres spare wires on my 038 AV super that will do it) then you might be able to use that to power it.
> As thew switch is at the powerhead end its no bother to reach it, a bit of wire to the pump and a contoller for the pump.
> ...



Thats a really good idea but still has a wire that will get in the way of my chain removal and it will need some additional control so that it doesn't release the oil until it is above a certain RPM threshold.


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## demographic (Mar 9, 2009)

BobL said:


> Thats a really good idea but still has a wire that will get in the way of my chain removal and it will need some additional control so that it doesn't release the oil until it is above a certain RPM threshold.




I don't know about the additional control (well I'm pretty sure I know someone who does) but the wire could just be on a audio jackplug.
Easy to pull out and easy to put in place, you could even have the switch on the motorbike grip switchgear (that I have seen on one of your setups that I read through in the last couple of days) instead of on the saw?

Mind, I don't know what the coil output is or if theres additional capacity on the standard saws as yet anyway.


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## BIG JAKE (Mar 9, 2009)

BobL said:


> Oh boy now that's a challenge if I ever hear one. I have already started thinking - optical sensor - gets dirty too quickly, sound level sensor - promising - small amplifier - relay switch - to EM tap - needs a battery - battery goes flat - needs an indicator LED - getting a bit technical - back to drawing board - good fun though!



Bob how about a sail switch where the sail is deflected by the exhaust or cooling fan air exit when you pull the trigger. just so long as it doesn't hamper cooling. It would be somewhat fragile but lightweight. It would get hot, but other idea is a vacuum switch triggered by pico(can't remember proper name of device) tube near magneto cooling fan. Air drawn across a tube perpendicular to the tube creates vacuum. Once the vacuum is measured a switch could be selected to fit application at WOT. Thermocouple on exhaust. Actually the vacuum switch could go on the intake as suggested earlier. Tac trigger? Bob, you crack me up I'm sitting here chuckling now thinking on this. Would be convenient though to have automatic oil shutoff.
Ok how about electric servo motor off of a model airplane. Solenoid.
Actually Bob if it were me I'd keep what you have. Technology can be reliable but the more there is the more to go wrong.....will be interesting to see what you come up with. I had the thought this morning about placing an order from you-keep up the good work!


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## Brmorgan (Mar 9, 2009)

Double-ended bar with a second clutch/sprocket assembly at nose end & chainsaw oiler assembly rigged to run off the clutch drum, same as saw's internal oiler? As far as using a coil for power, most run in the 12-15kV range and produce almost no amperage, much like a neon sign transformer. So I don't know how you'd go about making that usable while not killing your spark.


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## demographic (Mar 9, 2009)

Brmorgan said:


> Double-ended bar with a second clutch/sprocket assembly at nose end & chainsaw oiler assembly rigged to run off the clutch drum, same as saw's internal oiler? As far as using a coil for power, most run in the 12-15kV range and produce almost no amperage, much like a neon sign transformer. So I don't know how you'd go about making that usable while not killing your spark.




My mistake, when I said Coil, what I should have said was generator coil, not the one on the end of the HT lead. But don't some saws have a heating element in the handles?
Mines got a blanked off area for a switch on the right side,about an inch or so below where the carb screws go through the casing, do those versions run a different generator to give the extra amps?
This is on a 038AV super by the way, I haven't checked my mates 056 AV super to see if its got the same setup yet.

I read about the butterfly shaped heating coil as well thats fitted in the rear handle and the heating element thats fitted to the front handle of the arctic model in my manual but it looks like its an option, no mention of needing a different generator coil that I have read.
The heating element used in the arctic models must be getting power from somewhere and if they have the same generator then there might be a spare wire off it? Not checked that far yet as I haven't taken mine to bits yet (hey, its working, why should I)


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## BobL (Mar 9, 2009)

Brmorgan said:


> Double-ended bar with a second clutch/sprocket assembly at nose end & chainsaw oiler assembly rigged to run off the clutch drum, same as saw's internal oiler?



Good idea but too heavy. 

Any regular electrical wire running across the powerhead / mill divide including a regular audio jack is very likely to be damaged, I can just feel it in my bones. To protect the wire it will need to be inside a steel sheath like a bike brake cable, then quick disconnect becomes more complicated. If I give up on the quick disconnect and given I'm already using an mechanical Aux trigger, a simpler solution than anything electronic is a mechcanical cable that just pulls off the throttle cable. At least this means the oil will flow only when I use the throttle, so idling pauses, eg warming up/cooling down etc the oil will not flow.


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## Rockfarmer (Mar 9, 2009)

demographic said:


> My mistake, when I said Coil, what I should have said was generator coil, not the one on the end of the HT lead. But don't some saws have a heating element in the handles?
> Mines got a blanked off area for a switch on the right side,about an inch or so below where the carb screws go through the casing, do those versions run a different generator to give the extra amps?
> This is on a 038AV super by the way, I haven't checked my mates 056 AV super to see if its got the same setup yet.
> 
> ...



Hey demo, I dont know about saws but sleds have 2 coils, one for spark and one for lights/power (both on one stator plate). Interesting :monkey:


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## demographic (Mar 9, 2009)

BobL said:


> Good idea but too heavy.
> 
> Any regular electrical wire running across the powerhead / mill divide including a regular audio jack is very likely to be damaged, I can just feel it in my bones. To protect the wire it will need to be inside a steel sheath like a bike brake cable, then quick disconnect becomes more complicated. If I give up on the quick disconnect and given I'm already using an mechanical Aux trigger, a simpler solution than anything electronic is a mechcanical cable that just pulls off the throttle cable. At least this means the oil will flow only when I use the throttle, so idling pauses, eg warming up/cooling down etc the oil will not flow.



On several of my two stroke motorbikes (the ones with autolube systems) there was a throttle cable that ran down to a splitter, one cable coming out of the splitter went to the carb and the other went to the oil pump.

That way the bike had more two stroke oil pump when the throttle was opened and less when it was shut off. 

Might be another way of doing it.

This is the splitter part that the cables fit into...


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## demographic (Mar 9, 2009)

Rockfarmer said:


> Hey demo, I dont know about saws but sleds have 2 coils, one for spark and one for lights/power (both on one stator plate). Interesting :monkey:




Hi, my old KX500 has an ignition coil fitted to the stator backplate as standard, I have fitted an aftermarket lighting coil as well.

I have a bridge rectifier that converts the AC from that coil to DC which goes to a battery. That way my lights don't go dim when the revs drop*





















*Well, I say that but the aftermarket lighting coil is pretty crap and doesn't charge up anything like as well as I want, its something I am going to have to throw some money at but at the moment I don't have money to throw at it so its got to wait.


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## BobL (Mar 9, 2009)

demographic said:


> On several of my two stroke motorbikes (the ones with autolube systems) there was a throttle cable that ran down to a splitter, one cable coming out of the splitter went to the carb and the other went to the oil pump. ]



yep - I've seen this and this was exactly what I was thinking.


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## demographic (Mar 10, 2009)

BobL said:


> yep - I've seen this and this was exactly what I was thinking.



Some also have two throttle cables coming out of the twistgrip end and then going onto a wheel that opens the butterflies on the carbs.
One opens the throttle butterflies and the other shuts them, the idea being that if the cable that opens them snaps, you don't end up with the throttle wide open and unable to shut it off.

Problems with those is that they boith move in opposite directions to each other, it might be possible to sort that out at the twistgrip end but I can't say I have ever taken one apart yet to see if theres enough space to do it.
The one bike I have had with the two cable setup (GSXR750 Slingshot)has never needed a replacement throttle cable in the time I've had it.


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## JohnMcf (Jul 21, 2009)

*AL section*

This has probably already been answered, but what is the name/type of AL section used for the mill?

Actually is there a picture of terms used to refer to the common parts of a CSM

Regards
John


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## BobL (Jul 21, 2009)

JohnMcf said:


> This has probably already been answered, but what is the name/type of AL section used for the mill?



Unistrut.

The one I use is Highway Road sign unistrut - Capral profile number 984019



Actually is there a picture of terms used to refer to the common parts of a CSM [/QUOTE]
Will Mallof's book has some good pics - Here's one published in the interest of research.





In the book he goes on to show how he modifies it to make it a better mill.

Some variations on the labels I use.
Nose end = outboard end
Thrust skid end = inboard end
Sliding guide rails = mill rails
Riser post = mill upright or verticals


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## BobL (Jan 25, 2022)

Its an old thread from 2008 when I upgraded my BIL mill to 60" bar and I have finally been able to re-insert the pics back into this thread.
Hopefully someone may find it useful


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