# Welp, It's official



## ndlawrence (Aug 17, 2013)

I got a call from my buddy that owns a small logging operation today, He said he needed a faller on the weekends clearing a track on land that he is doing as a side job. I had mentioned to him a few months back that I would like to learn to fall at a pro level. So of course I told him I was up for the task. The plan is for him to spend the first few weeks teaching my all the ropes then once I feel comfortable I will be falling while he is running the skidder. 

The track we will be cutting is loaded with mostly 12-16" hardwoods, I am planning on running My Stumpbroke 359 with a 20" B&C for now.
It currently has a full wrap handle but he recommended changing back to a half wrap because he didn't think I could cut them low enough with it, any opinions are welcome.
I have a pair of Husqvarna full wrap chaps, And I will be picking up a hard hat/face shield this week. I also am going to need a new pair of boots.

Any advice for a florescent Greenhorn?


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## lfnh (Aug 17, 2013)

Good axe. Wedges, good ones. not junk.
Spare parts, including another saw.

Steady pace. Think first. Above all, Listen

Falling alone, well, doesn't sound like you'll be doing that.


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## northmanlogging (Aug 17, 2013)

calks? Rubber soled boots are fine and all, but nails on your feet make a big difference.

Learn to fall with a lay, E.I. all or most in the same direction, makes it easier to skid and causes less breakage.

Start at the bottom of any hill and work your way up it, logs roll and shift, so you want to be on the other side of gravity.

bring lots of water, and sports type drinks, and coffee lots of coffee... You start feeling funny and tired, take a breather, get some fluids in ya, wait a few minutes if you still feel a little off, the day is over.

If your not comfortable tackling a certain tree or situation its ok to walk away, better safe then dead. Let the boss man make the big decisions or bring in machinery to pinch hit, TNT is another option:msp_w00t:

Look up, and keep looking up. 

This all pretty general stuff, are you bucking and limbing or just dump and run with the skidder pulling tree length. If your limbing you may want a little bit longer bar, all that bending over to limb can be murder on your back. And do you have a log tape? If your bucking in the woods guestimating is all fine and good for fire wood or pulp but with saw logs they get a little whiny when you start making logs an inch or two short... Good luck to ya.

And look up.


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## ndlawrence (Aug 17, 2013)

lfnh said:


> Good axe. Wedges, good ones. not junk.
> Spare parts, including another saw.
> 
> Steady pace. Think first. *Above all, Listen*



Thanks, Any Input on a Axe/Wedge? I've been looking on baileys, Seems there is an overwhelming amount of options. I think I'm going to get the Labonville Full wraps chaps(my huskys could use upgrading) and a Husqvarana Pro Forest Helmet.

Will do for sure, I've always been told you have 2 ears and one mouth for a reason.


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## ndlawrence (Aug 17, 2013)

northmanlogging said:


> *calks?* Rubber soled boots are fine and all, but nails on your feet make a big difference.
> 
> Learn to fall with a lay, E.I. all or most in the same direction, makes it easier to skid and causes less breakage.
> 
> ...



Not sure what "calks" are but I will search and see. I believe I will be falling, bucking into sections and limbing... and no log tape... I will get one. 

As far as the bar, I'm not sure my 359 oilier will handle a longer bar or not..? I have a 288 about finished up that I could run a 28" on or would that be overkill? 

I also have a Dolkita 6401 as a backup right now.

Thanks for the input here guys,
I appreciate it.


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## northmanlogging (Aug 17, 2013)

Used to like the el cheapo wedges cause they where cheap, but I've broke a whole pile of em this year, so I'm using the K+h red heads now and one of them blue double tapers, couple of 8's and a couple of 10's. Keep some 12's and 14's in the crummy for special needs.

As far as axes my trusty 3.5# craftsmen. Some folks have gone to using the larger framing hammers the kind with an axe head on one side. Other folks in these parts have been using a modified magnesium wedge (sounds like a quick way to get carpultunnel to me...) Other guys use a heavy hatchet. Some even use sledge hammers... Thats all up to you and what you want to drag around with ya. Whatever you use make sure the pounding side has a nice flat surface to it, rounded types tend to mushroom wedges and glance off and causing general frustration all around, wedging is bad enough without having to compensate for a crappy beating stick.


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## northmanlogging (Aug 17, 2013)

calks or corks or caulks, spelling was never standardized... are the boots with the pointy bits of metal sticking out of the soles, providing superior traction on nearly every surface except steel plate, rocks, and fast food restaurant flooring, They where created for walking on logs, and beating through the brush. They can be expensive but worth every damn penny, baileys is having a sale on the reddawg brand right now in certain sizes. couple of other makers are Wesco, Whites, Viberg, Hoffman, Kullien, Hawthorn, Viking. Prices vary wildly but you get what you pay for with calks.


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## mitch95100 (Aug 17, 2013)

How about keeping a "emergency kit" on you at all times. (Cell phone, first aid kit, ect) Accidents do happen. Now im not talking a full paramedics bag but something sufficent.


Sent from me to you using my fingers


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## ndlawrence (Aug 18, 2013)

mitch95100 said:


> How about keeping a "emergency kit" on you at all times. (Cell phone, first aid kit, ect) Accidents do happen. Now im not talking a full paramedics bag but something sufficent.
> 
> 
> Sent from me to you using my fingers



Sounds like a solid idea.


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## northmanlogging (Aug 18, 2013)

As far as overkill in the saw department, bring the biggest your comfortable packing all day. There have been times I thought the 461 wasn't enough saw, and times an 066 would have balked. More power for falling is always a good thing. At the same time I hate dragging an 066 all day, and after 8 hours the 460/461 feels like a sack of hammers. And after an especially long day the little ms 260 feels heavy. So its up to you.


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## mitch95100 (Aug 18, 2013)

As far as wedges, i really like those "hard head" wedges. Have a metal cap so you can beat the crap out of them and still keep going!

Sent from me to you using my fingers


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## northmanlogging (Aug 18, 2013)

the hard heads are heavy... but you can beat the snot out off em, never needed one personally.


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## mitch95100 (Aug 18, 2013)

northmanlogging said:


> the hard heads are heavy... but you can beat the snot out off em, never needed one personally.



You probably got ALOT more experience than me! I can understand the weight concept though, i wouldnt want 10lbs hangin off of my belt all the time either!

Sent from me to you using my fingers


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## lfnh (Aug 18, 2013)

Sticky up ^^ here Gypo started has got good stuff in it.
Back a year or 2 there was good threads on wedges and another on axes.
here in F&L forum.

what NM said. Look up


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## bitzer (Aug 18, 2013)

Wedges? What the hell are those? Swing cuts... That's were its at. 

Look up a lot and don't hang out at the stump. 

Don't bore cut every tree. 99% of hardwood sawtimber does not need to be bored. Especially that size. 

You will want a bigger saw if you are getting paid by volume. It doesn't matter what saw you are running. While you're hitting your peak for the day they are all easy to toss around and they are all heavy as hell for the last hour of the day. More cubes will put more wood on the ground no matter what. If you're getting paid volume, seconds count.


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## bustedup (Aug 18, 2013)

NM kinda covered it ......and advice solid and sound ..........all I can add is ifn ya can go look at the track and identify any danger sticks and possible hazards......ifn you know the lay it could/might help ya in the end production wise. 

Find out the lay .....don't assume they way you think they should go is the way they want em. In that vein find out again if it a clear cut (you may be said lol ) or if there are stick in there that are save trees (ie not to be cut or damaged) they should be marked in some way but it wouldn't be the first time they ain't been and it will save ya getting a talking to lol. Also find out where ya fall up to ie. the boundary again should be something marked but don't assume lol.


Are you gonna be falling alone or part a a pair of fallers??? ....If your part of a pair then know where your partner is. Ifn you falling solo then when ya go in let someone know (the boss or bull buck) so ifn you don't come out they can go looking for ya (I know sounds stupid).


Find out what stump heights are permissible, some bosses and um foresters get grumpy ifn ya cutting to high 


Don't get to creative when falling keep it simple and know what you can achieve. Look at the terrain ifn ya falling a valuable stick look at the lay ie no stumps rocks or gulleys that are gonna bust it .......if there are adjust if ya can't lay some others down first that are going for pulp or are just scrag to soften it.



As far as saws and bars well NM covered it use what you feel comfortable with and what ya got .....earn some cash first and then go get the bigger and better kit ......we all gotta start somewhere. 


Carry wedges bro they will get ya outta the crap at times ......stop ya saw getting pinched and are together with everything else a safety thing ...........your axe well guess that personal pref really .....mine is a 4lb kelly on a 28" (michigan patt....) but you'll find what suits you (hopefully ya won't have to beat the crap outta anything lol). Clothing lol well chaps .....pants.....shirt....caulks.....and tin lid ,types styles and brands each has there own pref there a whole load out there imo......don't go overboard some kit costs a lot get what ya need then again when your earning ....replace ....upgrade and get better.



Lastly enjoy yourself and look up ifn ya have questions ask on here .....there are top class fallers/woodsmen/foresters on here that will have the answer .....jump into the not so pro thread lol we do talk a load of bull at times but when asked something serious then the serious answers do come and there always some one around there lol and Dad keeps a eye to make sure it all good lol



Be safe bro and welcome to the world of falling


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## roberte (Aug 18, 2013)

mitch95100 said:


> You probably got ALOT more experience than me! I can understand the weight concept though, *i wouldnt want 10lbs hangin off of my belt all the time either!*
> Sent from me to you using my fingers





by the time you get all the little this and that as described by everyone, and all valid btw, its gonna be right around that weight. Maybe get a wide belt and bag to carry it all, just a thought. 

Something else to consider, especially at the end of the day, get used to making two trips and leap frogging your gear. No matter what its going to be at the bottom or top of hill at quitting time.


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## Gologit (Aug 18, 2013)

Whenever you don't have anything else to do, fuel your saw. Running out of gas in the middle of a cut is embarrassing...and it can get you hurt.


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## ndlawrence (Aug 18, 2013)

Thanks fellas, I'm think about getting THIS axe for starting out.. :msp_unsure:


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## lfnh (Aug 18, 2013)

Wider axe head be easier driving wedges and kinder on the wedges.
Lot spendier now. Maybe something used


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## ndlawrence (Aug 18, 2013)

lfnh said:


> Wider axe head be easier driving wedges and kinder on the wedges.
> Lot spendier now. Maybe something used



Hmm makes sense. I will do some more searching :msp_unsure:


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## treeslayer2003 (Aug 18, 2013)

hey, I really like K&H wedges. I use the triple taper 10" but prolly to long for what you described. cheep wedges will break up if pounded on, chunks fly back at you. be careful out there.


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## northmanlogging (Aug 18, 2013)

ndlawrence said:


> Thanks fellas, I'm think about getting THIS axe for starting out.. :msp_unsure:



Them hand forged husky axes are nice and all, but a collins or even a true temper your not going to feel nearly as bad about losing:msp_ohmy:

wedge bags are nice but not strictly necessary, unless you find your self needing 3-4 wedges often or 2 or more different sizes.

By the way for heavy lifting you can use as many wedges as will fit in the back cut, each one takes up a little more of the load, and just keep whacking em like a xylophone, its sounds better if you color code them by length, tuning can be a ##### though. And usually when you need more then three rows of wedges the swearing and pounding blood tends to drown out all other sound anyway, not to mention the ragged breathing.:mad2:


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## slowp (Aug 18, 2013)

Get a straight handled axe. That linky axe is not. Like, aren't you going to wander about with your buddy before purchasing everything mentioned in this thread? Borrow some stuff and see if you can last? Otherwise, it is a pretty big investment and you might end up not liking production falling. 

Sorry to be a Debbie Downer, but I've seen folks come to work and it isn't at all what they thought it would be.


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## bustedup (Aug 18, 2013)

This might seem stupid to say ........It's not the bit of the axe that is of primary importance ie it don't need to be razor sharp (your not gonna be falling with it lol) it's the poll (butt) .......older axes tend to be of better steel (not made outta recycled tea spoons lol) ifn your handy enough you could pick up an old head and shaft it to the length ya want ......I prefer a straight shaft personally. 

Do take time to dress the poll so it square and true for striking it does help

Husky axes are I think these days made by hultafors ......used to be wetterlings (now owned by granfors) so they are good steel


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## northmanlogging (Aug 18, 2013)

Miss P does have a point there... it fun but its also a whole lot of hard dangerous work.


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## bustedup (Aug 18, 2013)

slowp said:


> Get a straight handled axe. That linky axe is not. Like, aren't you going to wander about with your buddy before purchasing everything mentioned in this thread? Borrow some stuff and see if you can last? Otherwise, it is a pretty big investment and you might end up not liking production falling.
> 
> Sorry to be a Debbie Downer, but I've seen folks come to work and it isn't at all what they thought it would be.



well said there .....no point spending lots ifn you ain't gonna like it or it not gonna like you production falling a bit diff from falling for yourself or weekend firewood cutting


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## bustedup (Aug 18, 2013)

Whilst being slightly negative lol...........ya prob know how ya getting paid lol ......but if not might be worth asking lol...........I mean are ya getting paid by the board foot.......or the load .....or is it a whole job deal ......it is important kinda so ya got an idea of how much ya gotta fall per day


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## magictoad (Aug 19, 2013)

mitch95100 said:


> How about keeping a "emergency kit" on you at all times. (Cell phone, first aid kit, ect) Accidents do happen. Now im not talking a full paramedics bag but something sufficent.
> 
> 
> Sent from me to you using my fingers




First aid kit, Cellox and Trauma wound dressing which has a built in pressure applicator, and keep them with you all the time, not left half a mile away in you vehicle.


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## Gologit (Aug 19, 2013)

If you find out, after your first day or maybe your first week, that falling isn't really what you want to do don't feel bad.

There's a lot of difference between getting to cut wood and having to cut wood. 

By the way, what are you being paid? Scale, tonnage, day wage?


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## ndlawrence (Aug 19, 2013)

slowp said:


> Get a straight handled axe. That linky axe is not. Like, aren't you going to wander about with your buddy before purchasing everything mentioned in this thread? Borrow some stuff and see if you can last? Otherwise, it is a pretty big investment and you might end up not liking production falling.
> 
> Sorry to be a Debbie Downer, but I've seen folks come to work and it isn't at all what they thought it would be.



Nah, I want this stuff for my side jobs regardless. Ill let you know this Saturday how it goes!


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## ndlawrence (Aug 19, 2013)

Gologit said:


> If you find out, after your first day or maybe your first week, that falling isn't really what you want to do don't feel bad.
> 
> There's a lot of difference between getting to cut wood and having to cut wood.
> 
> By the way, what are you being paid? Scale, tonnage, day wage?



Day wage I believe, I need to give him another call and get a definite number, he's a pretty good friend and always done me right in the past. I'm wanting to do this as a learning experience.


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## bustedup (Aug 19, 2013)

ndlawrence said:


> Day wage I believe, I need to give him another call and get a definite number, he's a pretty good friend and always done me right in the past. I'm wanting to do this as a learning experience.



Friends and business hmmmmm 


Ya gotta find out bro what you gotta lay out in a day ....................


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## ndlawrence (Aug 19, 2013)

bustedup said:


> Friends and business hmmmmm
> 
> 
> Ya gotta find out bro what you gotta lay out in a day ....................



I'll find out and let y'all know.


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## bustedup (Aug 19, 2013)

ndlawrence said:


> I'll find out and let y'all know.



cool bro......we juss trying to give ya the heads up so ya don't get bit in the ass by things they expect ya to know already


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## roberte (Aug 19, 2013)

bustedup said:


> Friends and business hmmmmm
> 
> 
> Ya gotta find out bro what you gotta lay out in a day ....................



I had to find out about "friends" and business the hard way.

And while Im the jacka:censored: for letting it go for as long as I did, 20 years + and $8500.00 are gone


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## bustedup (Aug 19, 2013)

roberte said:


> I had to find out about "friends" and business the hard way.
> 
> And while Im the jacka:censored: for letting it go for as long as I did, 20 years + and $8500.00 are gone



No friends in business ........


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## roberte (Aug 19, 2013)

bustedup said:


> No friends in business ........



well im still trying to have faith in people, my new old school motto;


no pay on Friday, I don't show on Monday


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## ndlawrence (Aug 19, 2013)

bustedup said:


> cool bro......we juss trying to give ya the heads up so ya don't get bit in the ass by things they expect ya to know already



I completely understand. I've had pretty good luck working FOR friends. I do construction full time right now with one of my friends, and this will just be on my off days (Saturday and some Fridays). I'm not looking to do this the rest of my life (I'm 18 will be going to UAH next year for mechanical engineering lord willing) I'm just looking to become more proficient at it. I really appreciate all your guys input.


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## bustedup (Aug 19, 2013)

ndlawrence said:


> I completely understand. I've had pretty good luck working FOR friends. I do construction full time right now with one of my friends, and this will just be on my off days (Saturday and some Fridays). I'm not looking to do this the rest of my life (I'm 18 will be going to UAH next year for mechanical engineering lord willing) I'm just looking to become more proficient at it. I really appreciate all your guys input.



jeez you watch not get hurt then ........your future career and all .......


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## northmanlogging (Aug 19, 2013)

fair warning woods work is highly addictive...


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## ndlawrence (Aug 19, 2013)

northmanlogging said:


> fair warning woods work is highly addictive...



Just the little glimpse I've got working around the farm has me hooked BAD. That's why I want to do this! Who's know what'll happen when I get out there


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## redprospector (Aug 19, 2013)

The best way to loose a friend is to take them on as a partner in business.
The second best way to loose a friend is to go to work for them in their business.
Very few people are able to separate friendship and business.

Boss hires friend......friend screws up..........boss chews ass.......friend get's butt hurt. 
or
Boss hires friend.....boss get's in a financial bind......boss figures, he's a friend, he'll understand......everyone else get's a paycheck, friend has to wait, and wait, and wait.
Working for friends is dangerous to friendships....Period.

Andy


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## bustedup (Aug 19, 2013)

redprospector said:


> The best way to loose a friend is to take them on as a partner in business.
> The second best way to loose a friend is to go to work for them in their business.
> Very few people are able to separate friendship and business.
> 
> ...



Well put bro.......think we all at times had some less than ideal experiences working for "friends"


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## treeslayer2003 (Aug 19, 2013)

...and some times workin with family can b worse.


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## bustedup (Aug 19, 2013)

treeslayer2003 said:


> ...and some times workin with family can b worse.



totally ......ya can't escape them lol


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## redprospector (Aug 19, 2013)

treeslayer2003 said:


> ...and some times workin with family can b worse.



Sometimes? Sometimes? Man, that's a guaranteed train wreck lookin' for a place to happen.

Andy


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## treeslayer2003 (Aug 19, 2013)

yup, I have uncles in the bness as well. we have tried teaming up but it never works. to many chiefs not enuff injuns lol. it funny, all the buyers here say if we could all get along we woulda been the biggest outfit around. jus won't work. I do fall for um once in a while, but that jus a pay me for today see ya later thing.


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## bustedup (Aug 19, 2013)

treeslayer2003 said:


> yup, I have uncles in the bness as well. we have tried teaming up but it never works. to many chiefs not enuff injuns lol. it funny, all the buyers here say if we could all get along we woulda been the biggest outfit around. jus won't work. I do fall for um once in a while, but that jus a pay me for today see ya later thing.



Families juss great ain't they lol


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## roberte (Aug 19, 2013)

bustedup said:


> Families juss great ain't they lol



now pass the potatoes please, ya miserable lowlife :censored:


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## redprospector (Aug 19, 2013)

bustedup said:


> Families juss great ain't they lol



Actually, family is great. Just don't do business with them. 

About 25 years ago I was cleaning up some lot's that an uncle of mine owned. I was doing it on the side, just for the wood. He got pissed at me about something and pushed my old 1970 Ford 4x4 off a pretty steep hill, after he nocked the lights and windows out of it. That old Ford wouldn't give up though, it went 300 feet down that steep wooded lot, never hit a thing, landed in the middle of the road below and stopped.  County deputy sheriff called and told me I needed to move my truck out of the road so resident folks could get home. 
Now I love my uncle, and we get along good. Had a lot of good times since then. But we don't do business! We don't even talk about business! Mostly because it would upset my Momma real bad for me to put a #10 Wesco in her baby brother's butt. 
I love my family!

Andy


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## ndlawrence (Aug 20, 2013)

Heck, Y'all are trying to get me to quit and I haven't even let any chips fly yet:hmm3grin2orange:


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## redprospector (Aug 20, 2013)

ndlawrence said:


> Heck, Y'all are trying to get me to quit and I haven't even let any chips fly yet:hmm3grin2orange:



No sir.
Just don't want you to walk into this armed with anything other than the truth about the situation.
Good luck with it. 

Andy


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## Deleted member 110241 (Aug 20, 2013)

I've worked with my dad for 8-9 years, first year we ran the company together but that was a bad idea 
Then I started my own business and took him on as an employee, much better for both of us even if it took a few years to get to a level where both were happy.
Now that he's injured and off from work it's much more like a ordinary workplace, can't really have the same kind of jargon with non-family members of the crew!

By the way, there's a 100% injury rate for us nutheads working in the woods. Everyone gets hurt, sometimes on a daily basis


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## ndlawrence (Aug 20, 2013)

redprospector said:


> No sir.
> Just don't want you to walk into this armed with anything other than the truth about the situation.
> Good luck with it.
> 
> Andy



I know I know! Let me rephrase my friendship, about 4 years ago I was pretty good friends with this guy then he went off and got married and haven't seen him but a few times since. So worst case scenario I go work a Saturday and don't get paid and don't come back!

We shall see... I've got a nice and shinny 28" techlite bar on the way either way :hmm3grin2orange:


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## slowp (Aug 20, 2013)

Markus said:


> By the way, there's a 100% injury rate for us nutheads working in the woods. Everyone gets hurt, sometimes on a daily basis



Really? Are you counting the boo boos? I know some very experienced fallers (20+ years cutting) who take pride in never getting hurt on the job. Both learned falling from their fathers and grew up around it. 

Now, if you are counting boo boos, like little bruises and cuts, your statement could be true. Be sure and carry some of those band aids with cartoons on them...Hello Kitty would be good.


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## mitch95100 (Aug 20, 2013)

I agree. I "help" out running the family business. Working with family drives me nuts.

Sent from me to you using my fingers


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## Deleted member 110241 (Aug 20, 2013)

slowp said:


> Really? Are you counting the boo boos? I know some very experienced fallers (20+ years cutting) who take pride in never getting hurt on the job. Both learned falling from their fathers and grew up around it.
> 
> Now, if you are counting boo boos, like little bruises and cuts, your statement could be true. Be sure and carry some of those band aids with cartoons on them...Hello Kitty would be good.



No, what I meant was that everyone will get hurt at some point and that's a part of this job, one still has to get out and be productive. I'm sure your logger friends has been hurt/injured in their 20+ years of cutting.

You can keep the Hello Kitty band aids. :msp_razz:


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## treeslayer2003 (Aug 20, 2013)

I have to agree with slowp here. I one of those 20+ year guys never missed a day from injury. now I been cut and knocked around a bit, but nuthin to not be able to work and never had to seek a medic. I am sorry to here bout yer dad tho, hope he gets well soon.


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## Deleted member 110241 (Aug 20, 2013)

treeslayer2003 said:


> I have to agree with slowp here. I one of those 20+ year guys never missed a day from injury. now I been cut and knocked around a bit, but nuthin to not be able to work and never had to seek a medic. I am sorry to here bout yer dad tho, hope he gets well soon.



That's exactly what I'm trying to say, you get hurt/cut/knocked around but still have to go to work. Some people might stay at home the next day because they are a bit sore after being "knocked around a bit". 

My dad's injury is not related to work, but thanks!


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## bustedup (Aug 21, 2013)

slowp said:


> Really? Are you counting the boo boos? I know some very experienced fallers (20+ years cutting) who take pride in never getting hurt on the job. Both learned falling from their fathers and grew up around it.
> 
> Now, if you are counting boo boos, like little bruises and cuts, your statement could be true. Be sure and carry some of those band aids with cartoons on them...Hello Kitty would be good.



That a great phrase "Boo Boos" lol ...........I always consult the 1001 loggers excuse book when a boo boo happens ..............It a well worn copy lol


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## slowp (Aug 21, 2013)

bustedup said:


> That a great phrase "Boo Boos" lol ...........I always consult the 1001 loggers excuse book when a boo boo happens ..............It a well worn copy lol



I do not feel a lot of them. I walked up to many a rigging crew at work, and they would point out, "Your hand is bleeding." I don't like to wear gloves.


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## hammerlogging (Aug 21, 2013)

Markus said:


> No, what I meant was that everyone will get hurt at some point and that's a part of this job, one still has to get out and be productive. I'm sure your logger friends has been hurt/injured in their 20+ years of cutting.
> 
> You can keep the Hello Kitty band aids. :msp_razz:



With two young boys now, I can say affirmatively that the kiddie cartoon bandaids are the best stickiest ones I've ever used. Of course they still get a thin wrap of duct tape to hold them on through the work day.


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## mdavlee (Aug 21, 2013)

hammerlogging said:


> With two young boys now, I can say affirmatively that the kiddie cartoon bandaids are the best stickiest ones I've ever used. Of course they still get a thin wrap of duct tape to hold them on through the work day.



My oldest says princess bandaids are best. :msp_wink:

Hope all is well on your side of the mountain


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## hammerlogging (Aug 21, 2013)

mdavlee said:


> My oldest says princess bandaids are best. :msp_wink:
> 
> Hope all is well on your side of the mountain



I was at the bank straight after work and the teller looked at me and asked, "is that pooh bear?"
yes ma'am, and piglet.
The swimming teacher seemed uneasy when I let my boy use the princess ball for an activity. Don't worry, we're cool. Princesses, heck ya.

Bought a new motor for your grinder, must have glossed over some wires while running it with worn out bearings. 2nd to last one Madsen's had. Let me know if you ever decide to let go of another one. It does about 22 loops of 105 or 110 a week.


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## mdavlee (Aug 21, 2013)

They must use super glue on the kids band aids. They sure do stick to everything. 

I can't remember but I think those motors can be bought somewhere else if need be. I don't have an extra right now but I'll keep on the lookout for another good one.


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## ndlawrence (Aug 24, 2013)

Well, day one is over. I learned a few things: 
I don't know squat

Don't EVER wear merrell boots, your feet will be immediately soaked and stay that way all day long. 

I learned how to swing a tree

I also learned that dropping a tree on a power line is a great way to end the day early.... 
I said it was too close but he said it it would clear it.... Needless to say it fell right where I wanted it and took the lines with it. He just said "I guess you were right" and called the power company LOL

he's paying me $30 for every 10 mill logs I cut, cut around we cut around 40 today and only worked half a day with a lot of teaching involved. 

I think I'm going to get the hang of this!


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## bustedup (Aug 24, 2013)

ndlawrence said:


> Well, day one is over. I learned a few things:
> I don't know squat
> 
> Don't EVER wear merrell boots, your feet will be immediately soaked and stay that way all day long.
> ...




Hang in there ya got a ways to go yet lol


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## treeslayer2003 (Aug 24, 2013)

well, that a faller's worst day. you got it overwith. only can get better now. trust yer instinct. you have that little voice for a reason.


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## 4x4American (Aug 25, 2013)

-If you have a tree that splits off like a y (school marm) make sure to lay it down flat, dont lay it down on one side or the other cause it'll split all the way to the base. Well on hardwoods thats the case not terrible sure on softwoods cause we don't have much round here.
- Hickory you always should bore the heart out. But other than that, bore cutting takes way too long and kills your back and makes it harder to have a decent stump. 
- If you're cutting real low, lots of times it tends to be dirty down low. Cutting through the dirt dulls your chain and you'll spend more time filing than cutting.
- When that skidder is hoggin through the woods near ya, theres only one place you should be- the hell outta the way! You might not realize it but all those little tiny trees are now whips. You gotta stay away from that skidder when it's moving. 
- Don't hang out at the base of the tree when it's falling, once it's going where its going get outta there. It can bounce back up to ya and from there on down it's lights out
-After the tree is on the ground. Don't just run up to it to start limbing it. Take a breath, look up and make sure there's no branches hung up in the trees above you. 
- Carry water with you. Stay hydrated
-I like to keep some toilet paper folded up in a plastic bag in my pocket just cause leaves dont always do the best job.
-If it's rocky, cork boots aren't really ideal. 
-When you're on your back cut, it's a good practice to place a wedge in once you have room. Just place it in there fairly loosely. This way if the tree sits back you can wedge it over and get your bar out. Also you can watch the wedge. If the wedge starts going down, then the tree is falling, if the wedge starts going up, then the tree is sitting back. If the wedge just stays there, you can set your coffee cup on it :msp_biggrin:
-Keep your saw maintained and your chain sharp. A dull chain is just bad news.
-Make sure to look up alot and keep your tin hat on your head.


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## 4x4American (Aug 25, 2013)

ndlawrence said:


> Well, day one is over. I learned a few things:
> I don't know squat
> 
> Don't EVER wear merrell boots, your feet will be immediately soaked and stay that way all day long.
> ...



Didn't see that you already had your first day...when it comes to powerlines, no sense spending $500 on a $30 tree if its close I just steer clear and have bossman make the decision. Good luck!


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## ndlawrence (Aug 25, 2013)

4x4American said:


> Didn't see that you already had your first day...when it comes to powerlines, no sense spending $500 on a $30 tree if its close I just steer clear and have bossman make the decision. Good luck!



Good advice, thanks! And that's what I did, he said to cut it and it would clear, it didn't. Next time I will just let him cut anything close to em, and I won't have to worry about it. It didn't cost me anything, thankfully. I will keep updating y'all every Saturday, hopefully no more stories like that!


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## 4x4American (Aug 25, 2013)

ndlawrence said:


> Good advice, thanks! And that's what I did, he said to cut it and it would clear, it didn't. Next time I will just let him cut anything close to em, and I won't have to worry about it. It didn't cost me anything, thankfully. I will keep updating y'all every Saturday, hopefully no more stories like that!



Roll Tide!


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## ndlawrence (Aug 25, 2013)

4x4American said:


> Roll Tide!



That's right!


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## TheJollyLogger (Aug 25, 2013)

ndlawrence said:


> Well, day one is over. I learned a few things:
> I don't know squat
> 
> Don't EVER wear merrell boots, your feet will be immediately soaked and stay that way all day long.
> ...



Glad you enjoyed it, lot different, huh? Have you learned any methods for tree height calculation?


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## ndlawrence (Aug 25, 2013)

TheJollyLogger said:


> Glad you enjoyed it, lot different, huh? Have you learned any methods for *tree height calculation*?



Yep just a little:msp_biggrin: and nope... I haven't heard that term


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## TheJollyLogger (Aug 25, 2013)

Sounds like your boss hasn't either or he wouldn't have hit the lines, lol. Here are a few easy field methods I've picked up over the years. Bet some of these guys have some other good ones too. They are all based on the properties of an equilateral right triangle. Relax, no math involved. Walk out to about where you think the top of the tree will hit. Now, if you were to see yourself and the tree from a side view, and draw a right triangle from you to the trunk, then up to the top of the tree, and then back down to you, if you are standing in the right spot you would have a right triangle with two equal sides. In other words, if the angle from you to the top of the tree is forty five degrees, then you have to be standing as far away from the tree as it is tall, right? 

I use three different ways to check this angle. If it is really critical, I have a plastic carpenter's speed square that has a bubble level on one side. I will hold that upand sight along the long side while someone from the side makes sure the bubble is level. If it is level, and the ground is level between me and the tree, and I am looking up that right at the top of the tree, then the top will hit 5-6' behind me, everytime. The 5-6'mis to make up for the height of my eyes, and is a little dependent on the height of the cut, but you get the idea.

A little simpler way that is almost as accurate is to find a four foot or so long stick. Tuck it under your armpit with your arm extended and grip it. Then untuck it and extend your arm as level as you can, and hold the stick up as straight as you can. If you are looking past the tip of the stick and seeing the top of the tree, same thing. It will hit six feet or so behind you. Obviously, this isn't quite as accurate as the square method and takes a little more practice, but will still get ya close.

Finally, if ya just need to get in the ballpark, throw the ole Nazii salute at it, and use your fingertips as a guide. It'll get ya in the ballpark. Keep in mind, this is for level ground, in the hills you have to adjust a little, but the principles still work.

Hope this helps, and who knows, ya might teach your buddy something next weekend. I've won a few cases of beer over the years, it's amazing how many guys have been doing this for years, and still just guess. Jeff


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## tramp bushler (Aug 25, 2013)

Without starting the full wrap/ half wrap argument. 
Where I cut if the wrap is on the ground you may still be in the rocks and dirt. Keeping your chain sharp is paramount to getting any amount of wood on the ground. . 

Keep looking up. Make yourself look up. Look up. Look up. Look up. . 
Sounds like you had a good day. If you can eat beef the night before you go to the woods. It gives you better strength in the afternoon. . I pack a 28 oz framing ax. An 8" hard head and a 12" is a good combo for that size timber. . I advocate a cheap short wedge also. No sense sawing up a good wedge. 

And keep your thumb wrapped around the handle bar. 
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## tramp bushler (Aug 25, 2013)

I always wear 2 pair of socks. Liners and a mid to heavy weight. . I wear unlined leather boots. Until it gets cold.


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## bustedup (Aug 26, 2013)

Sounds like ya had a good one ..........as far as falling towards power lines ......well ifn ya not sure don't do it.........ifn some one else wants ya to then let em do it..............Sizing up sticks and being confident where they will fall comes with time (not knocking ya at all) at the mo I'd stick to not falling anything towards lines etc.


I dunno what style of falling ya using or being taught but I'll say it again..........Look up 


Take care of ya feet young man ......they take care of you and well your on them all day ......bad feet makes a day not so pleasant lol


You'll get there juss be patient you had a good start day


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## slowp (Aug 26, 2013)

tramp bushler said:


> I always wear 2 pair of socks. Liners and a mid to heavy weight. . I wear unlined leather boots. Until it gets cold.



That's what I used to do until I had to stuff orthotics in my boots. Plus I have a hard time finding the right size of boot. 

Keeping feet dry will help prevent blisters. Wear socks that are wick dry. They may cost a bit more but are worth it. Carry some moleskin too if you are having hot spots. Hot spots are pre blisters. Put the moleskin on the problem spot and resock. You can cut out the center of a moleskin patch and put the blister spot where the hole is and that will give protection. 

Duck tape also works as a last resort.


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## lfnh (Aug 26, 2013)

ND-
Along with the tree height calc Jolly posted, need to know wedging againt lean. Here's a thread on it. Dent's book Timber Falling and Work Safe BC online pdf covers this to.

Ask someone good to show about nipping spring poles. Them liitle ones really hurt.
At some point, less the better, you'll hang a tree but good. For now, get the skidder to knock it down for you. and don't go leaving it hung.



tramp bushler said:


> ---
> 
> Keep looking up. Make yourself look up. Look up. Look up. Look up. .
> 
> ...



and wrapped around the trigger. Pop that thumb on a hard push back, like from that 288, and it won't even be good for hitch-hiking a ride. for a long time. can't even sign a paycheck either.


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## ndlawrence (Aug 27, 2013)

TheJollyLogger said:


> Sounds like your boss hasn't either or he wouldn't have hit the lines, lol. Here are a few easy field methods I've picked up over the years. Bet some of these guys have some other good ones too. They are all based on the properties of an equilateral right triangle. Relax, no math involved. Walk out to about where you think the top of the tree will hit. Now, if you were to see yourself and the tree from a side view, and draw a right triangle from you to the trunk, then up to the top of the tree, and then back down to you, if you are standing in the right spot you would have a right triangle with two equal sides. In other words, if the angle from you to the top of the tree is forty five degrees, then you have to be standing as far away from the tree as it is tall, right?
> 
> I use three different ways to check this angle. If it is really critical, I have a plastic carpenter's speed square that has a bubble level on one side. I will hold that upand sight along the long side while someone from the side makes sure the bubble is level. If it is level, and the ground is level between me and the tree, and I am looking up that right at the top of the tree, then the top will hit 5-6' behind me, everytime. The 5-6'mis to make up for the height of my eyes, and is a little dependent on the height of the cut, but you get the idea.
> 
> ...



Thanks! I will practice this around the house this week and hopefully go back with some newfound knowledge.


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## ndlawrence (Aug 27, 2013)

slowp said:


> That's what I used to do until I had to stuff orthotics in my boots. Plus I have a hard time finding the right size of boot.
> 
> Keeping feet dry will help prevent blisters. Wear socks that are wick dry. They may cost a bit more but are worth it. Carry some moleskin too if you are having hot spots. Hot spots are pre blisters. Put the moleskin on the problem spot and resock. You can cut out the center of a moleskin patch and put the blister spot where the hole is and that will give protection.
> 
> Duck tape also works as a last resort.



I still need to get a different pair of boots... not sure if I want to fork out the money for chalks or not yet, I know I should but I've got bills to pay too.., but then again if I cut my foot there will be more bills LOL. I'm going to try and read the boot thread when I get a chance but have been too busy this week.

Thanks for all the help guys.


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## slowp (Aug 27, 2013)

Calks will not keep you from cutting your foot. Your brain should keep that from happening.


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## TheJollyLogger (Aug 27, 2013)

ndlawrence said:


> Thanks! I will practice this around the house this week and hopefully go back with some newfound knowledge.



You're welcome. Hopefully it made sense. It's kind of one of those things that's easier to show in person than describe.


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## bustedup (Aug 27, 2013)

Bro ......I am not being rude or gonna judge ya in any way however .........I'm gonna ask ya ......and there are reasons ........What style of falling are ya using/being taught ie are you facing and then backing up or are ya using the (GOL) face, bore and release??? It may not seem relevant but for example swinging a stick imo (guys you can jump on me ifn ya wish lol) ifn you using the GOL style is a different ball game. Also wedging in GOL style is different as such and ifn ya using that style then Mr Dents book ain't gonna make a whole lotta sense lol......also some of the cuts guys talk about on here won't work ifn ya using the GOL style 


Sorry if this seems rude juss don't want ya (you are really keen and full of energy) to go out and try or use some things that were designed/invented for a different style and different timber and get yourself in the crap or worse hurt


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## northmanlogging (Aug 27, 2013)

If your going to spend a significant amount of time walking logs or beating the brush, calks are worth every damn penny, I don't wear mine all the time while running the skidder, but I miss em when I don't have em on, for falling or anything involving a chain saw, that extra traction and surefooted feel is a blessing. Rubber soles are fine and all but after a day or two of wearing calks your rubber soles will feel like they have been greased.


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## ndlawrence (Aug 27, 2013)

bustedup said:


> Bro ......I am not being rude or gonna judge ya in any way however .........I'm gonna ask ya ......and there are reasons ........What style of falling are ya using/being taught ie are you facing and then backing up or are ya using the (GOL) face, bore and release??? It may not seem relevant but for example swinging a stick imo (guys you can jump on me ifn ya wish lol) ifn you using the GOL style is a different ball game. Also wedging in GOL style is different as such and ifn ya using that style then Mr Dents book ain't gonna make a whole lotta sense lol......also some of the cuts guys talk about on here won't work ifn ya using the GOL style
> 
> 
> Sorry if this seems rude juss don't want ya (you are really keen and full of energy) to go out and try or use some things that were designed/invented for a different style and different timber and get yourself in the crap or worse hurt


I came here for one reason, to learn. Don't apologize for making that happen guys. I'm not sure on the falling terminology, I have been starting with a face cut then backing up? Nothing very fancy... Any books you guys recommend? 


Keep in mind the first thing I learned Saturday, I don't know jack. LOL 


I'm all ears guys!


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## northmanlogging (Aug 27, 2013)

first things first then, you cutting conventional faces (slope on log) or Humboldt (slope on stump) they both have advantages and disadvantages, conv. makes a lower stump but not so much fun for thinning or falling on steep ground, Humboldt puts the tree on the ground faster, allows for a few more fancy swing cuts, but leaves a higher stump, which can be an asset on steep ground or thinning.


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## JakeG (Aug 27, 2013)

Glad you're enjoying it! To get your mind on the right track with safety and general procedures, type this into YouTube: bc falling standard

There's 15-20 short videos and all in all there is some good info.


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## ndlawrence (Aug 27, 2013)

northmanlogging said:


> first things first then, you cutting conventional faces (slope on log) or Humboldt (slope on stump) they both have advantages and disadvantages, conv. makes a lower stump but not so much fun for thinning or falling on steep ground, Humboldt puts the tree on the ground faster, allows for a few more fancy swing cuts, but leaves a higher stump, which can be an asset on steep ground or thinning.



Conventional face. On the ones that need to swing he was cutting a micro "pie" out about 1" thick. Sounds right?


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## northmanlogging (Aug 27, 2013)

This piece of pie is that how much dude is taking for his undercut or that what he's leaving for hold wood?

If that's the undercut you find you have better results and less fiber pull with a more open face figure roughly half the depth of your face cut or so... kinda hard to explain... if thats what he's leaving for hold wood its about right unless the tree is extra big or brittle like cotton wood then you want to leave more

In summary the more open of a face you have the more control your going to have and for longer throughout the decent of the tree, making for hopefully a nice soft landing and no broken wood, a thicker hold/hinge wood helps here to but you run the risk of chairing then. 

Study your stumps and look at why the tree did what it did and ask yourself how you can make it better/ more accurate. 9 times out of 10 fallers miss the lay because they screwed up somewhere. 

Take the time to prep your escape routes, size it up, gun each one, clean out the face, level the saw for the back cut and keep looking up, when you have room start a wedge, once she commits run like Hel. Make a habit out of these steps and you'll find yourself busheling by the end of the month...


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## bustedup (Aug 27, 2013)

I'd guess NM that he being shown to cut a very narrow face ............I ain't an advocate of that as I know you aint either lol


Missing the lay .......yep something gone astray lol.........could be the gun ......could be the face not cleaned out .......could be an unintentional dutch .........or lol could be the proverbial wind thing lol


ND if you want the theory behind production falling then D Douglas Dent's book is the place to go. The type of face is prob more a geographical thing but as NM says on steep ground then the humbolt is ya friend ................however being able to execute both is a good thing.


Do bear in mind tho that D D Dent's book was aimed and written at the PNW and the pics in it are of fairly big Timber lol but the principles are the same and will work no matter what ya falling.


The fancier swing and finesse cuts do imo work better in softwood as opposed to hardwood (in general before some folks jump on me lol) but that due to the fibres in the wood etc ........nothing can teach ya that young man other than time and experience .........just bear in mind not every stick will behave the same and treat each one on it's own.


Ya will as time goes on add to ya bag of tricks juss don't add to quickly and remember simple is best


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## Cfaller (Aug 28, 2013)

Like bustedup said Doug Dent's Professional Timber falling is a very good read. Also try the Fundamentals of General Tree Work by G.F Beranek. Both these books will bring you up to speed on timber felling lingo.


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## slowp (Aug 28, 2013)

From Lewis County Sirens:

TREE FALLER BLAMED FOR POWER OUTAGE

• Firefighters called to an area off Davis Lane west of Onalaska about 11 o’clock yesterday found a tree which had been cut down and fell the wrong direction pulled down a 230,000 volt power line belonging to Bonneville Power Administration. Lewis County Fire District 1 Chief Mark Conner said he was sent to a nearby house to make sure everyone was accounted for and luckily nobody was electrocuted, nobody was injured, and it didn’t start a fire. Conner said it was part of the lines that run from Mayfield Lake to the various distribution points. The owner of a land clearing company arrived and said *he couldn’t find his employee, who apparently had taken off*, Conner said. Workers from BPA handled getting tree removed, he said. Electricity in the area was restored, he said.


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## ndlawrence (Aug 28, 2013)

slowp said:


> From Lewis County Sirens:
> 
> TREE FALLER BLAMED FOR POWER OUTAGE
> 
> • Firefighters called to an area off Davis Lane west of Onalaska about 11 o’clock yesterday found a tree which had been cut down and fell the wrong direction pulled down a 230,000 volt power line belonging to Bonneville Power Administration. Lewis County Fire District 1 Chief Mark Conner said he was sent to a nearby house to make sure everyone was accounted for and luckily nobody was electrocuted, nobody was injured, and it didn’t start a fire. Conner said it was part of the lines that run from Mayfield Lake to the various distribution points. The owner of a land clearing company arrived and said *he couldn’t find his employee, who apparently had taken off*, Conner said. Workers from BPA handled getting tree removed, he said. Electricity in the area was restored, he said.



LOL that wasn't me:hmm3grin2orange:


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## ndlawrence (Aug 28, 2013)

northmanlogging said:


> *This piece of pie is that how much dude is taking for his undercut or that what he's leaving for hold wood?*
> 
> 
> _*Undercut...*_
> ...


Thanks, I will do as stated!




bustedup said:


> I'd guess NM that he being shown to cut a very narrow face ............I ain't an advocate of that as I know you aint either lol
> 
> 
> Missing the lay .......yep something gone astray lol.........could be the gun ......could be the face not cleaned out .......could be an unintentional dutch .........or lol could be the proverbial wind thing lol
> ...


'
Thanks, Bustedup. Not working this saturday so hopefully will get a chance to study up some more before I cut again.


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