# Affordable and Reliable



## Ryan Shaw (Apr 2, 2014)

Hey fellow Arborists. Last year was my first year in urban forestry, and I loved it, so when I got laid off for the winter, I took a course to get certified. Just finished the last day, exam is later this month. I already have work lining up, but I'm using someone else's equipment currently. Just wondering where you've managed to find the best deals on quality climbing equipment. Any suggestions?


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## sgreanbeans (Apr 2, 2014)

Anywhere they sell new stuff, prices are pretty much the same. Online stores, such as Tree Stuff, Sherrill, Wesper, etc. All have pretty good deals.


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## Ryan Shaw (Apr 2, 2014)

sgreanbeans said:


> Anywhere they sell new stuff, prices are pretty much the same. Online stores, such as Tree Stuff, Sherrill, Wesper, etc. All have pretty good deals.


Alright, thanks


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## CanopyGorilla (Apr 2, 2014)

I know this is 101 but really? "Hi, I have no idea what I am doing, but now I am a certified tree pro, where can I buy some stuff"? I have been a fairly large advocate of a DIY attitude on this site but damn, if you cant handle a google search for "where to buy arborist equipment" I have serious doubts in your mental prowess, as well as the current ISA standards!


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## DR. P. Proteus (Apr 2, 2014)

The best deal is getting what you want and like and will work, the hard part is figuring out what you want and like and will work. Its not cheap and if there is something cheap don't buy it.

One thing I can recommend right now is to buy the biggest block first even though its more expensive than a little pulley. You can use a big block as a little pulley but you cannot use a little pulley as a big block.

Also to use 12 strand True Blue for a lowering line will get you out of the starting blocks pretty good. It is the least exspensive but still is very nice in that application.


Another way to save cash is to make your own eye slings for rigging out of Tenex or Nerex. The splices are simple and strong and you can make one in 5 minutes that will last a good time. You might spend over 100 bucks for a eye sling but can make one for 10 bucks at a dollar a foot.


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## CanopyGorilla (Apr 2, 2014)

HA! My first ever "dislike", good for you Ryan Shaw!


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## Ryan Shaw (Apr 2, 2014)

CanopyGorilla said:


> I know this is 101 but really? "Hi, I have no idea what I am doing, but now I am a certified tree pro, where can I buy some stuff"? I have been a fairly large advocate of a DIY attitude on this site but damn, if you cant handle a google search for "where to buy arborist equipment" I have serious doubts in your mental prowess, as well as the current ISA standards!



Oh brother, calm down big guy. I know how to Google that, but Google would just display whatever result that paid them the most money to advertise. Instead, I thought I would pick the brains of a couple experienced arborist's, I.E. people who have tried and tested equipment and know where to go and where to stay away from. That would save me the headache of buying crappy overpriced equipment. Were you born with the tree knowledge you currently hold? No, numbnuts, you gained knowledge through experience. My lack of experience doesn't mean I'm retarded.


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## Ryan Shaw (Apr 2, 2014)

CanopyGorilla said:


> HA! My first ever "dislike", good for you Ryan Shaw!



Here you go. Now you can have your first ever like.


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## Ryan Shaw (Apr 2, 2014)

DR. P. Proteus said:


> The best deal is getting what you want and like and will work, the hard part is figuring out what you want and like and will work. Its not cheap and if there is something cheap don't buy it.
> 
> One thing I can recommend right now is to buy the biggest block first even though its more expensive than a little pulley. You can use a big block as a little pulley but you cannot use a little pulley as a big block.
> 
> ...



Wow, thanks a lot, I'll keep this in mind. I had been wondering if doing my own splicing would be worth it, thanks for the heads up


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## DR. P. Proteus (Apr 2, 2014)

CanopyGorilla said:


> HA! My first ever "dislike", good for you Ryan Shaw!




Yeah well, after a bunch of years in this business maybe Ryan will understand. I might have said the same thing but at least it sounds like he is serious and not one of those guy who comes in here asking how to start a business, how much to charge, how to get clients, what does a tree look like, etc. Today I gave the guy a chance, tomorrow one might not be so lucky.


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## DR. P. Proteus (Apr 2, 2014)

Ryan Shaw said:


> Wow, thanks a lot, I'll keep this in mind. I had been wondering if doing my own splicing would be worth it, thanks for the heads up




Like I said, splicing Tenex and Nerex is easy as pie. I don't have time nor desire to splice more technical ropes though if you do it would be worth it.


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## VA-Sawyer (Apr 2, 2014)

CanopyGorilla said:


> HA! My first ever "dislike", good for you Ryan Shaw!


I have had a few. Generally, I get them the same way you did, calling a spade a spade.

To the OP, I too have my concerns, but I happen to know where there is a nice collection of gear for sell. An AS member purchased a bunch of new gear, nice stuff, and then decided that tree climbing wasn't for him. I have no idea what changed his mind. For more information, go to the commercial climbing forum and find the thread ' local ad, you got to see this' or something like that. I think you can see the stuff on the Craigslist link.


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## Ryan Shaw (Apr 2, 2014)

DR. P. Proteus said:


> Like I said, splicing Tenex and Nerex is easy as pie. I don't have time nor desire to splice more technical ropes though if you do it would be worth it.



Yeah, I wrote those down. Thanks


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## DR. P. Proteus (Apr 2, 2014)

Ryan Shaw said:


> Yeah, I wrote those down. Thanks




Just remember where you are at and don't go asking stupid questions for us to answer like about how much you are worth because you will get an answer you will not like and have your bones picked clean by every last mean old buzzard here, including me.


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## CanopyGorilla (Apr 2, 2014)

Ryan Shaw said:


> Oh brother, calm down big guy. I know how to Google that, but Google would just display whatever result that paid them the most money to advertise. Instead, I thought I would pick the brains of a couple experienced arborist's, I.E. people who have tried and tested equipment and know where to go and where to stay away from. That would save me the headache of buying crappy overpriced equipment. Were you born with the tree knowledge you currently hold? No, numbnuts, you gained knowledge through experience. My lack of experience doesn't mean I'm retarded.


I use Wesspur because they will match any offer advertised on any other site, and free shipping on orders over $100. You have thick skin, I like that. Climb away Padner!!


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## Ryan Shaw (Apr 3, 2014)

DR. P. Proteus said:


> Just remember where you are at and don't go asking stupid questions for us to answer like about how much you are worth because you will get an answer you will not like and have your bones picked clean by every last mean old buzzard here, including me.



I can respect that. I'm sure you see your fair share of thoughtless posts so it would get annoying after a while


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## Ryan Shaw (Apr 3, 2014)

CanopyGorilla said:


> I use Wesspur because they will match any offer advertised on any other site, and free shipping on orders over $100. You have thick skin, I like that. Climb away Padner!!



That's good to know, thanks


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## Ryan Shaw (Apr 3, 2014)

VA-Sawyer said:


> I have had a few. Generally, I get them the same way you did, calling a spade a spade.
> 
> To the OP, I too have my concerns, but I happen to know where there is a nice collection of gear for sell. An AS member purchased a bunch of new gear, nice stuff, and then decided that tree climbing wasn't for him. I have no idea what changed his mind. For more information, go to the commercial climbing forum and find the thread ' local ad, you got to see this' or something like that. I think you can see the stuff on the Craigslist link.



I saw that, but it sold already


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## VA-Sawyer (Apr 3, 2014)

Well, I'm glad to hear he got it sold. Hope he didn't have a major loss in the deal.


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## DR. P. Proteus (Apr 4, 2014)

VA-Sawyer said:


> Well, I'm glad to hear he got it sold. Hope he didn't have a major loss in the deal.



No major loss I am sure, just shattered dreams. Better than a shatter spine I suppose but I guess that depends on who you are. Hell, I would kill myself first with all that gear that guy had before I would sell it.


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## hank the tank (Apr 7, 2014)

Check your local pawn shops for saws and what not. I've bought most of my saws from one down the road from me. I got a 200t for $200 out the door, an ms361 for $225 in excellent condition and a 440 for $300. All of my other saws ran $100-$150. 

I wouldn't go buying used climbing gear or anything, but u can find some great deals on saws, especially if you get to know the ppl working there. They call me every time they get a stihl or husky.


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## Ryan Shaw (Apr 7, 2014)

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. I only have two crappy Paulins right now because I get to use another guys saws where I work, but in a bit I'll be looking for a better saw, so I'll definitely keep that in mind


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## DR. P. Proteus (Apr 7, 2014)

From one DR to another I stronger advise not to spend a dime on anything less than a professional Echo climbing saw back by dealer support. Their other bigger saws ain't to shabby, they make a good reliable inexpensive 2-stroke system, they do. 

Also Rock O beeners from Rock Exotica are some of the sleekest, reliable ones there is. 4 will cost you 80 bucks, you need 4. Get oval shaped and use with 10mm high heat grizzly spliced eye2eyes which are again inexpensive, reliable and extremely versatile to handle many a surgeon's needs. You need two of these. These together with good regular 16strand climbing line will make two friction hitch set-ups.

For climbing rope:

If you have the money to buy a 600 foot spool then do it. Cut lengths appropriate to your demographics. Around here I start with 50 foot up to 200 in 50 foot increments. Having this array of operating apparatus provides better procedure.

But if money is tight then go with the longest rope. Keep it in a nice trash can appropriately sized, screw the bags, its cheap quick and easy to move, stow deploy and retrieve rope in a small trash can and it keeps the rope safe. I don't use the lids so the ropes can breathe. Bags suck for that, putting them in bags is hard and if its wet and cold you will never uncoil its frozen tangle. Flake rope into the trash cans and tie the end off to the handle ready to go.

Good quality trash cans are useful in other ways to.


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## Ryan Shaw (Apr 7, 2014)

DR. P. Proteus said:


> From one DR to another I stronger advise not to spend a dime on anything less than a professional Echo climbing saw back by dealer support. Their other bigger saws ain't to shabby, they make a good reliable inexpensive 2-stroke system, they do.
> 
> Also Rock O beeners from Rock Exotica are some of the sleekest, reliable ones there is. 4 will cost you 80 bucks, you need 4. Get oval shaped and use with 10mm high heat grizzly spliced eye2eyes which are again inexpensive, reliable and extremely versatile to handle many a surgeon's needs. You need two of these. These together with good regular 16strand climbing line will make two friction hitch set-ups.
> 
> ...



Thanks a lot, doc. So weird, here no-one uses Echos (probably a Canadian thing or something) but I find plenty of good response to them on these forums.. I'll look into them


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## DR. P. Proteus (Apr 7, 2014)

No problem, if you are serious I like to help. You'll spend some bucks and this work is great!

If you can buy a spool of climbing line that would be best because then all your climbing lines or color coded. Then you buy rigging lines, you will need different sizes most likely so maybe a spool isn't good but get something at least 200 foot. After years you will aquire many different ropes.

Some homemade slings and rigging made from 16 strand climbing line ( Years of trusted service, did some WORK with that stuff):


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## DR. P. Proteus (Apr 7, 2014)

A simple ascender system and some bucket storage:


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## DR. P. Proteus (Apr 7, 2014)

To get a good saddle leave a blank check at the store ( yes, you MUST go to a store no matter what) and take a couple home with you to try. I did not buy the either saddle in this pick. The red and black saddle is outdated, not recommended and might bite your ballsack and change your life forever. Get something that stays out of your balls whatever you do. Bosson seat is best for comfort. This is going to be one of the highest cost per single item, its important to get it right. I use a moderately priced solid designed and made Weaver Cougar which now is important that I say I added a second but primary bridge made out of 16 strand ( the stuff is great!) and use the original bridge as my secondary. These need inpesction and replacement time to time.


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## Ryan Shaw (Apr 7, 2014)

Yeah, to start off with, I was thinking about a 200 footer and as I go on, smaller ones from there. Same concept as you mentioned about the big block to start with, smaller pulleys later. I'm still laid off for the winter (the city is starting the hiring process now) so I made a deal with a private company that I do sidework for to work for gear, instead of money. So, by the time I get hired back by the city, I should have a decent start on my gear. After I get working, I'll see what else I need and go from there

I like your rope bucket/Beemer setup, looks organized. That's for that tip, I think I'll follow suit


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## DR. P. Proteus (Apr 7, 2014)

After 6 months of research on the first generation Cougar's I was first to notice a rupture in the internal fibers of the bridge. Subsequent generation Cougar's are now fitted with a stronger bridge though I still feel the rope diameter to small to take the constant use and abuse the attachement point generate on many of the newer bridge styles. An addition of a 16 strand bridge makes this saddle very workable for about 300 I think.

The rings on this saddle also had problems but have been recitified. I was more than instrumental in seeing that this was also so.


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## DR. P. Proteus (Apr 7, 2014)

The lanyard is also a requirement. This set up has been on a few different saddles over time, right now I have it the rope grab attached to my saddle via a 4 dollar web tether rather than the 40 dollar steel twist shackle that is normally required. I have a cheaper twist locking beener for the tail which I think is important. I find it hackish to let your lanyard tail hang. You can use the rope grabs ( there are many style) on wire core or plain rope lanyards, I use plain rope for easy in tight spots.


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## DR. P. Proteus (Apr 7, 2014)

Whip up some thick diameter 3 strand eye splices for a dollar a foot for light to medium service.


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## Ryan Shaw (Apr 7, 2014)

DR. P. Proteus said:


> To get a good saddle leave a blank check at...
> ...and replacement time to time.



Wow, nice setup. I think my first saddle will be whatever I get through this deal I have with the private company. If it's not the greatest, which it likely won't be, I'll end up just getting a better one when I'm back to work. Like you said, big bucks, but worth spending extra, cuz I want to be as comfortable as possible when that's what's supporting my weigh every day, not breaking my nuts. I like the idea of try before you buy, but I don't see them allowing it here. I'll definitely give it a shot though!


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## DR. P. Proteus (Apr 7, 2014)

And this 16k pound Nerex tree cabling rope can be spliced with fingers for about the same price


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## Ryan Shaw (Apr 7, 2014)

DR. P. Proteus said:


> The lanyard is also a requirement. This set up has been on a few different saddles over time, right now I have it the rope grab attached to my saddle via a 4 dollar web tether rather than the 40 dollar steel twist shackle that is normally required. I have a cheaper twist locking beener for the tail which I think is important. I find it hackish to let your lanyard tail hang. You can use the rope grabs ( there are many style) on wire core or plain rope lanyards, I use plain rope for easy in tight spots.



Man, you have a lot of advice that will save me plenty of headache and wasted time or even money. Sounds like you've been around the block plenty (as the wear on your figure 8 descender would suggest haha,) appreciate the advice


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## Ryan Shaw (Apr 7, 2014)

DR. P. Proteus said:


> Whip up some thick diameter 3 strand eye splices for a dollar a foot for light to medium service.



What's the advantage of using the three stand? Just cuz it's so cheap?


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## DR. P. Proteus (Apr 7, 2014)

I made the three 3strand and the one Nerex for dollars while the one that cost 80 bucks had the splice slip. Its still good to have that kind too though, very strong and durable, pricey though.








The splicing fid is in the first picture.


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## DR. P. Proteus (Apr 7, 2014)

The splice is very easy and can be taken apart, put back, adjust and configured to fit a variety of hardware.


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## DR. P. Proteus (Apr 7, 2014)

And its been tested to failure with my stamp of approval. Man we walloped her good, shock loaded her with some weight we did. All on purpose. the splice is fine still.


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## DR. P. Proteus (Apr 7, 2014)

Then you just put it all together with steel beeners and shackles and pulleys then hook it to the truck.


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## DR. P. Proteus (Apr 7, 2014)




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## DR. P. Proteus (Apr 7, 2014)

To pull this tree off the house.


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## DR. P. Proteus (Apr 7, 2014)

Here are the Rock O's and the Bee line eye2eyes for friction hitches, you new friend aloft.


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## DR. P. Proteus (Apr 7, 2014)

Like I said get Grizzly spliced eye2eyes or tie your own up with scaffold knots. Don't waste money on splices like this where the outer covering has been removed to provided access to splice the inner fibers. Without the outer cover the rope is subject to much strain and wear quickly. These splices are not good for tree work and when there is Grizzly why bother with anything else unless money is an object. Knots work well with this stuff.


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## Ryan Shaw (Apr 7, 2014)

DR. P. Proteus said:


> I made the three 3strand and the one Nerex for dollars while the one that cost 80 bucks had the splice slip. Its still good to have that kind too though, very strong and durable, pricey though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oh wow, those three strand splices look great. So, you can get a fid anywhere that sell climbing tools, or is it a bit of a specialty tool?


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## Ryan Shaw (Apr 7, 2014)

DR. P. Proteus said:


>



I asked my instructor if you can use a figure 8 instead of a portawrap (just until I get a portawrap) and she seemed unsure. What's your thought? And I was thinking if that isn't enough friction, I could probably use two figure 8's in series.. sound like that would work well, or?


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## Zale (Apr 7, 2014)

You can use a figure-8 for very light rigging but it tends to twist the rope and makes it very frustrating. Invest in a porta wrap.


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## Ryan Shaw (Apr 7, 2014)

Zale said:


> You can use a figure-8 for very light rigging but it tends to twist the rope and makes it very frustrating. Invest in a porta wrap.



Ever try using a couple figure 8's in series?


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## Zale (Apr 7, 2014)

Ryan Shaw said:


> Ever try using a couple figure 8's in series?


 

No. Haven't seen that done before. Trust me on this one. Buy a porta-wrap.


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## BC WetCoast (Apr 7, 2014)

Ryan Shaw said:


> Ever try using a couple figure 8's in series?



If you are going to go to that extent, just go old school and wrap the rigging line around a couple of stubs or trees to get more friction. Better to buy the porty.


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## Ryan Shaw (Apr 7, 2014)

I definitely will when I'm more established. Thanks guys


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## DR. P. Proteus (Apr 8, 2014)

Ryan Shaw said:


> Ever try using a couple figure 8's in series?




It would twist you into a cheeseburger. A rescue 8 is good to have for controlling a zip-line, tag/drift line and for light quick duties, its rigging gear. Most likely its good to also have a personal one which will come in handy from time to time. Mine has progressed to a very small one for jumping of spars. Jumping off spars is NO-JOKE! I make it sound all fun but really it is a time to be VERY careful and have everything planned for when plans go wrong. This is something you do when coming down a bare tree trunk after you have striped it and are going to fell it. You come off all safties and are in your own hands, the change-over can kill but its the quickest way down and not leave any gear up there. I usually come down the rope with which the tree is getting pulled with. Listen, the ropes I use are to be trusted or they are even on the job. I will certainly use rigging gear to support my 165 measly pounds or I won't use it to heave thousands of pounds over my head! That's the logic I have been living for many many good years. Of course its up to you to know your gear and what it will support and what it won't. You also gotta know what whatever you are tieing it to is going to hold.


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## DR. P. Proteus (Apr 8, 2014)

But just because you can doesn't mean I always do, for instance: I would not ever ever ever put a life on little measly rescue 8 after it has been subject to zip-line duty. I have been beating on porta-wraps long enough to know they will keep on holding. This is all stuff you have to see and work yourself to know well enough to understand.


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## Ryan Shaw (Apr 8, 2014)

Fair enough haha


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## treesmith (Apr 11, 2014)

Used a figure 8 for lowering for the first time last week, ok in a pinch but a portawrap does everything bigger and better and with far more control


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## Ryan Shaw (Apr 12, 2014)

DR. P. Proteus said:


> To get a good saddle leave a blank check at the store ( yes, you MUST go to a store no matter what) and take a couple home with you to try. I did not buy the either saddle in this pick. The red and black saddle is outdated, not recommended and might bite your ballsack and change your life forever. Get something that stays out of your balls whatever you do. Bosson seat is best for comfort. This is going to be one of the highest cost per single item, its important to get it right. I use a moderately priced solid designed and made Weaver Cougar which now is important that I say I added a second but primary bridge made out of 16 strand ( the stuff is great!) and use the original bridge as my secondary. These need inpesction and replacement time to time.



Does Weaver still make the Cougar? Checking Bailey's and I'm not finding it


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## crotchclimber (Apr 12, 2014)

DR. P. Proteus said:


> Here are the Rock O's and the Bee line eye2eyes for friction hitches, you new friend aloft.


Yeah I love those biners. Have you used the Rock Exotica minieight on arborist climbing rope? I was thinking of trying it out as a backup to my Petzl Rig or for doubled lines. I can't find any info on tying it off but it looks like there must be an easy way with the ears.


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## Ryan Shaw (Apr 12, 2014)

crotchclimber said:


> Yeah I love those biners. Have you used the Rock Exotica minieight on arborist climbing rope? I was thinking of trying it out as a backup to my Petzl Rig or for doubled lines. I can't find any info on tying it off but it looks like there must be an easy way with the ears.



I'm looking at getting a Petzl Sequioa.. you used a lot of Petzl equipment? Happy with it?


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## crotchclimber (Apr 14, 2014)

Ryan Shaw said:


> I'm looking at getting a Petzl Sequioa.. you used a lot of Petzl equipment? Happy with it?


I had a Petzl Navaho for a while but I sold it after I tried out some New Tribe saddles. Now I climb in a New Tribe Onyx and I love it. The Petzl saddles have nice backs but the leg support is lousy. The Sequoia has the same leg loops as the Navaho but it's set up differently since it's a bridge saddle. A buddy of mine has a Sequoia and a New Tribe Walkabout (recreational version of the Onyx) and he likes his Walkabout better. Petzl hardware is generally good stuff though.


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## Ryan Shaw (Apr 14, 2014)

crotchclimber said:


> I had a Petzl Navaho for a while but I sold it after I tried out some New Tribe saddles. Now I climb in a New Tribe Onyx and I love it. The Petzl saddles have nice backs but the leg support is lousy. The Sequoia has the same leg loops as the Navaho but it's set up differently since it's a bridge saddle. A buddy of mine has a Sequoia and a New Tribe Walkabout (recreational version of the Onyx) and he likes his Walkabout better. Petzl hardware is generally good stuff though.



Alright, thanks man. I think I might just stop being so cheap and get a Buckingham Ergo


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## treesmith (Apr 14, 2014)

Love my sequoia, I'm not a giant and it fits and supports well. If you're going ddrt and hanging big saws off it regularly then get the srt version and shoulder straps, otherwise its beautiful


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## Ryan Shaw (Apr 14, 2014)

treesmith said:


> Love my sequoia, I'm not a giant and it fits and supports well. If you're going ddrt and hanging big saws off it regularly then get the srt version and shoulder straps, otherwise its beautiful



Hmm.. I'm divided


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## Ryan Shaw (Nov 9, 2014)

hank the tank said:


> Check your local pawn shops for saws and what not. I've bought most of my saws from one down the road from me. I got a 200t for $200 out the door, an ms361 for $225 in excellent condition and a 440 for $300. All of my other saws ran $100-$150.
> 
> I wouldn't go buying used climbing gear or anything, but u can find some great deals on saws, especially if you get to know the ppl working there. They call me every time they get a stihl or husky.


Got my MS200t for $200 too


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## treesmith (Nov 9, 2014)

A lot of boys at work have the treemotion harness by tefelberger or something, they all like it


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## treebilly (Nov 11, 2014)

See if anyone at that private company will let you try out their saddle(unless they're all climbing in those weaver nut crushers). I had a guy lend me his Edge saddle for a few hours and I got a good feel for it. Ended up with a Buckingham Empire which is almost the same just a different distributor. 
Dr. P I'm kinda getting a flashback to the Plas going on here.


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## treebilly (Nov 11, 2014)

Also I must add TreeStuff rocks


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