# Need 3" BearCat chipper advice



## Roger Dodger

Hi Everyone, first time poster here. I've been lurking for a while, especially regarding chippers, and I have a few questions regarding *specifically* the 3" chippers from Echo-BearCat.

First off, I've just cleared approximately 1 1/2 acres of brush and probably a few thousand small saplings measuring under 3" cross-section. (mostly under 2"-2 1/2" sumac) I've probably got 5 large piles scattered across the acreage, and some of those piles measure 30 feet across, and five feet high. My goal is simply to get rid of these brush-piles, and I'm not looking to keep any material for composting, etc.

I'm fully aware that renting a larger 5" chipper with hydraulic feed and a built-in blower is the preferred option, since that would be the quickest method, but,,,,, I have no way of getting that chipper anywhere near the brush-piles. (no road) I need a mobile chipper, that one man can wheel to the brush-piles, and a decent 3" chipper appears to be my only option at the moment. (aside from burning). I realize that I'll be stuck with cutting branches off those trees in order to feed them properly into the machine, but I have no real choice in the matter.

I have an Echo-BearCat nearby who offers great service, and I'm thinking of buying the most powerful of the 3" chippers in BearCats' range. BearCat has four models of 3" chippers, and the one I'm considering is the SC3342 with a 342cc Briggs and Stratton engine. (16.5 ft/lbs gross torque/ 11-12HP). This particular unit swings a 27 lb rotor with 2 knives at 3600 rpm, and it has 12 serrated knives for shredding. (I don't really plan on using the shredder)

http://www.bearcatproducts.com/data/upfiles/media/Chipper-Shredder Page 3 - 5_2.pdf

My question for you is this; Is it more desirable to get the highest horsepower-rating possible? On the surface, the answer would seem obvious, but, my dealer only has the slightly smaller SC3305 in stock. (8-9HP I believe, and same rotor-weight, same number of knives). Mind you, he's willing to order the larger unit for me, and it's a few hundred $$$ more. For me, performance is more important than price, so the extra money isn't a factor here. That said, BearCat also has a 265cc Subaru engine version available, and it also has the same 27 lb 2-knife rotor, turning at a slightly higher 3800 rpm. Apparently, that unit develops something like 9HP. Is that 265cc Subaru engine any better than the Briggs and Stratton 345cc.? BTW, Echo is currently throwing in a free 31cc chainsaw (cs310) with the purchase of any of their 3" chippers.

Thank you in advance. This forum is a wonderful resource, ans was very handy when I researched and bought my chainsaw last week. (Echo CS590 TimberWolf).


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## treebilly

I would recomend renting a small chipper like a Vermeer bc625. They are light enough that a big 4-wheeler or small compact tractor can tow off road


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## Roger Dodger

Hi Treebilly, That would be a great solution if only I could get it there, but there's no road (or off-road) access to get a vehicle down to where the chipper is needed. This river-side property is situated on three levels, with very steep drop-offs between levels, and only a very narrow pathway down to the newly cleared area where the brush is piled. I can wheel a 3" chipper down there, and that's why I'm specifically looking at one of the 3" BearCats. The question there is,,, which one? (see link above)


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## BC WetCoast

Is the pathway narrower than a 36" mini loader? If you can get a mini loader down there, you would be better to drag the material up to where you can chip it. Chipping piles that size with that machine will get old fast. Burning will start to look good. 

Second question, can you get a machine from the river side (ie using a raft)? 

What I'm afraid of here, is that these machines aren't really designed for the size of job you have planned. If I'm imagining these piles properly, you have a couple of months of work with that toy versus a couple of days with a bigger machine. 

Could you get someone in with a small excavator to build a larger road?


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## Roger Dodger

Yeah,,, burning is looking VERY good at the moment. 

Access from the river is a no-go, and the mini-loader would require that I re-cut the trees to fit the bucket, so that's not an option either. This property is in a rural location, and the only rental chipper I could find within a 40 km radius, is a 6" unit, with hydraulic feed. Great unit,,,, but useless for this particular application, because I can't get it to where I need it. Another issue,,,, I don't have a truck, nor a hitch on the car, so I can't tow a machine to the site. The rental place would deliver and pick-up for $50. each way (per machine), and I'd be ok with that, but it still doesn't solve my particular problem of no access.

Back to the 12HP 3" BearCat for a moment; is it really THAT bad??? Probably 80-90% of the trees I'd be running through it were cut with a 2" hand-lopper, and it's mostly very soft Sumac. Most of it is still relatively green. (cut less than three weeks ago) For anything harder or larger, I'd just cut the bottoms off those trees and stack 'em for burning at a later date. It's very rough land down there, with plenty of dips and rises, so I'm not trying to make this area look "pretty". I'm just trying to get some sort of control over a severely overgrown area. It was so thick down there, that you couldn't see between the trees, let alone walk through them. It was a veritable "wall" of weeds, vines, and 4' tall thorny brush, mixed in with endless clusters of skinny Sumac saplings, ranging up to 10-12 feet tall. There was some larger stuff too,,,20'-30' maples, poplars, etc, but they don't need to go right now. Anything larger than 3" could stay dropped and stacked 'til next Spring, then burned. (snow is coming in a few weeks)


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## TC262

It's the small size of the infeed shoot that would be a real pain with that little chipper. You can probably find a little used chipper like that or just slightly smaller on craigslist for around 100 bucks. You'll probably use it for an hour or two and say screw it this isn't going to work. The other suggestion about the mini is a good idea. You wouldn't cut the stuff to fit in the bucket tho. You would bundle large piles and drag them with a rope or chain. To bad you don't have access to a small compact tractor. There are some reasonably priced pto driven chippers that are just big enough to get some work done but won't break the bank either. You can get them into just about anywhere as well. Woodmaxx and others sell them for around $1,800.


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## TheJollyLogger

Yes, I'm afraid to say they're that bad. From your description of the piles, months of work may be an exaggeration, weeks is not.
One of the things we see a lot on this site are homeowners with preconceived notions asking a very narrow question. It seems to me you've convinced yourself that there's no way to get any other piece of equipment in there. Personally, I'm having a hard time picturing a trail that a mini-skid can't get up and down, but a fellow can haul a 230# 25" wide chipper up and down by hand.
Honestly, my best advice is to have a couple companies come out and bid it. They may see options you don't, and you may be surprised at the prices.


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## treecutterjr

He said the mini WILL fit but the brush won't fit in the bucket. Solution: get a grapple for the mini and ¡viola! Or get a rope/chain and tie little bundles and pull them out with the mini. Problem solved!


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## Roger Dodger

Yeah TC262, I'm aware of the feed-rate problems with those smaller machines,,,having to trim branches before feeding into the machine, etc. Believe me, I've scoured the local internet ads, and I've found nothing within a 100 kilometer radius. All I find is over-priced and under-powered Home Depot crap, or, larger commercial units that require at the very least, a trailer. 

Now, I may have found a solution for getting the 6" chipper in there, via the neighbours' driveway. I'll go have a look sometime later this week. We're getting rain for the next 4 days.

I'm in south-western Quebec by the way,,, about 1 hour west of Montreal, and 90 minutes east of Ottawa. The property I'm clearing is situated along the Ottawa river, in Cushing Quebec. This job is a one-shot deal by the way. I'm retired, 66 years old, and have no intention of doing more of this kind of work. I'm basically helping out the daughter of the property-owner, who passed away in June.(he was 94). The daughter lives out of province.


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## Zale

Why can't you burn the piles?


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## sac-climber

You need one of these....


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## Roger Dodger

Zale said:


> Why can't you burn the piles?


Yep, I'm thinking about that, and I've already called about a burning permit. Problem is, that takes time. I'd be burning for days, let alone dragging all the piles to the fire-pit. A lot of it is still green too, so I'd probably just leave it 'til Spring (to dry), and burn it then.


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## Zale

From what you describe, I would go that route vs. feeding a 3" chipper.


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## sac-climber

Trust Zale, you will be out there much longer stuffing twigs down the Bearcat.


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## BC WetCoast

Hire the local high school football/soccer/rugby/hockey team for a day to drag the material up the hill. Have the coach call it dry land training.


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## Roger Dodger

BC WetCoast said:


> Hire the local high school football/soccer/rugby/hockey team for a day to drag the material up the hill. Have the coach call it dry land training.



I've already called them. They said they'd come on three conditions;
1. I buy the BearCat. 
2. I fill the shredder-hopper with ice and beer. and,,,,
3. I re-name it "The Beer-Cat"


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## old_soul

Don't do it! my neighbor rented one of those years ago to chip up a fence row. maybe 12 trees 30 foot tall plus brush/overgrowth. he worked at it all Saturday/sunday and then gave up and burned the rest. I think he had to push the limbs through, it did not have any way to feed brush in. 

this was before I had any equipment to help him. 

Maybe rent a skid loader with grapple and track the brush up to a level spot where you can park a 12 inch chipper?


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## Roger Dodger

I may have found a lead for a guy who has a commercial chipper. I'll give him a call and see if he can quote me a price for the job.


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## BuckmasterStumpGrinding

Use the money you would spend on the 3" chipper for kindling. It will be more useful that way.


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## Roger Dodger

I've been checking out some of the small Wallenstein and Salsco chippers.

Whaddaya think of this lil' guy? Remember, 90% of what I've cut so far, was with a 2" lopper.

http://www.salsco.com/products/comm...en-gravity-feed-chipper/models-608---616.html


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## Zale

"Gravity feed" means you pushing the material through. If you can burn it, a match and a can of lighter fluid will be a much cheaper alternative.


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## Toddppm

Here's to hoping the stumps were sprayedopcorn: If not they may grow back with a vengeance next year. And yeah, burning sounds like the easiest, cheapest and most efficient way to handle the brush.


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## BC WetCoast

Roger Dodger said:


> I've been checking out some of the small Wallenstein and Salsco chippers.
> 
> Whaddaya think of this lil' guy? Remember, 90% of what I've cut so far, was with a 2" lopper.
> 
> http://www.salsco.com/products/comm...en-gravity-feed-chipper/models-608---616.html



That thing is 35" wide. If you can get it down your path, you can get a mini loader down there to drag that material up the hill to where it can be chipped with a real machine.







If you spent less time searching the internet and more time working, you'd have it done by now.


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## Roger Dodger

For your information BC WetCoast, I've got a guy with a 6" chipper coming to price the job tomorrow. This is only one of the solutions I've been looking at.

There's no point in discussing a smaller chipper here.

Skid steers??? 6+ inch chippers with hydraulic infeeds to get rid of trees that were cut with a 2" hand-lopper??? Really???

Thanks anyway.


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## Roger Dodger

Toddppm said:


> Here's to hoping the stumps were sprayedopcorn: If not they may grow back with a vengeance next year. And yeah, burning sounds like the easiest, cheapest and most efficient way to handle the brush.



No they weren't, and I'm fully aware of that. Virtually all of the clusters of Sumacs I cut, originated from single stumps that had been previously cut, and in turn, those stump-roots re-generated clusters of 6-8 saplings each. The owner was 94, and dieing of cancer. Whaddaya want me to tell ya?

Unfortunately, I'm not the "guy in charge",,,nor the owner,,,, nor the guy who controls the purse strings.


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## TheJollyLogger

Roger, you asked for opinions on 3" 20 hp chippers, and you got a pretty universal response. Those chippers are designed for a homeowner who occasionally does a little pruning. From your description you have cleared the better part ofan acre and a half and stacjed it up.


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## TheJollyLogger

It's the quantity that will kill you, not thesize. With your bearcat you will have to feed them in one or two at a time, and push them down until theyare done. With a 6" infeed it will take an armfull and have it gone by the time you come back with another armfull. I know you don't like the advice you're being given, butnit's based on years of experience.


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## Roger Dodger

TheJollyLogger said:


> It's the quantity that will kill you, not thesize. With your bearcat you will have to feed them in one or two at a time, and push them down until theyare done. With a 6" infeed it will take an armfull and have it gone by the time you come back with another armfull. I know you don't like the advice you're being given, butnit's based on years of experience.



Jolly Logger, you're 100% right, and I don't dispute that for a moment. I've seen the videos, and I've read reviews 'til I'm blue in the face. I'm frustrated though, because people are responding, without reading the specific questions I'm asking.

Let's re-cap;

I'm looking at several options, including;
1. burning, (it'll probably take a few days to do that)
2, hiring a 6" chipper, and a bunch of guys to drag the wood to that stationary chipper, and 
3. buying a chipper that I'll use 1 time, and probably never again. (May have to re-sell it after the job is done.)

I don't need advice on the first two options,,,, I'm simply trying to get some sensible advice on the 3rd option,,,so that I'll be in a better position to make the final decision after having considered all 3 options. So yes,,, I'm looking at smaller chippers,,,, not the Home Depot junk,,,, but something of semi-pro quality within that 3-4" capacity, that will get rid of the *2"* trees over the course of a few days. Something that I can man-handle by myself, over rough uneven terrain, to the brush-piles. I merely threw out the 12HP BearCat as a starting point,,,, and I'm currently looking at machines like the Salsco and Wallensteins,,,, with larger/heavier rotors,,,7 gauge steel/continuous weld construction,,,, cantilevered blades,,, larger chute-openings, road-towable trailer, and top-side ejection-port, so I don't have to constantly move the machine as the chip-pile grows.

This is not a horse-race. If it takes me a few days, I'm OK with that. I just don't want a machine that you have to baby, and deal with clogs every few minutes. I want the home-owner to be happy that the job is done well, at an affordable price for her, and at the end of the day, I'd like a little something left over for my effort too. (one slightly used small capacity semi-pro- quality chipper that I could use on my own property, with very few branches to chip every year).


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## TheJollyLogger

I hear you Roger, and the answer is yes any of those 3" chippers will eventually turn those brush piles into mulch. Men have tunneled out of prison with a salad spoon too.


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## Toddppm

I don't think there is any such thing as a semi-pro chipper Buying a unit that will not be used again doesn't exactly sound like a fair option to the owner either


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## Roger Dodger

Toddppm said:


> I don't think there is any such thing as a semi-pro chipper Buying a unit that will not be used again doesn't exactly sound like a fair option to the owner either



She wouldn't be paying for the chipper,,, I would. She'd be paying me for the job, and I'd in turn be putting that money toward the chipper. The Salsco would run me $3600. delivered (after taxes). Let's say the job pays $900. At the end of the day, that machine costs me $2700., and if I decide I'd like to do a few more small jobs like this, I'm ready to go.

Hiring a crew with skid-steers and 6" chipper puts money in "their" pockets,,,, not mine,,, and I'd be willing to bet that it would cost a heckuva lot more than $900.

Again,,, this is just about options. I'm meeting a guy this afternoon, and he has a 6" chipper. We're going to see first of all, if he can get the chipper where I need it, via the neighbors' property. I'll need permission from that neighbor, but I think that's doable. If we choose that option, the owner would provide two of her friends' boys, to help drag the wood to the chipper. At the end of the day, that option is " fastest", but puts the least amount of cash in my pocket. The owner would be paying 4 "man-days" to get the job done in one day. (myself, the two "boys", and the chipper operator). I'd earn a fraction of the total job.

If I burn,,, it'll take a few days, and the money goes in my pocket.

If I buy the chipper, the money goes in my pocket, but I have a chipper that "could" get me more work. That's undecided at this stage. Frankly, I really enjoyed doing this job. I'm 66 and retired, with a bad back. This job got me out of the house, and active again.


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## Roger Dodger

For what it's worth, the Salsco 3 1/2" chipper has a 15 sq.in. chute opening (3.5"x 4 1/4" throat) vs the 9 sq.in. opening (3"x3") of most of the 3" chippers.
http://www.salsco.com/uploads/catal...es_Literature_and_Specifications_Rev12-09.pdf


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## TheJollyLogger

See? Generally speaking the truth comes out by the bottom of page two.


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## BuckmasterStumpGrinding

A few days of watching fires will be easier than the same few days or more of feeding brush into a tiny chipper and make you money.


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## ncpete

sac-climber said:


> You need one of these....
> 
> View attachment 375265


I want one of those!


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## ncpete

Have you considered a DR chipper? Better power than ost big boxstore pieces and larger chutes. Staring at one kind ofhard onmy local craigslist for my use-clearing a smaller but no less messy yard.


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## Roger Dodger

OK, the guy with the 6" chipper dropped by this afternoon, and we had a good look at the job. Now I'm not going to get into every detail, but in general, he figured there's roughly $700. worth of chipper time there,,, *plus* the labour to get that material dragged to the chipper. He didn't even want to venture a guess as to how much it would cost to drag those piles of material to the chipper. He figured "a weeks' work", and that was just a wild guess.

We discussed burning as an option. Now just to clarify, those dozen or so piles of trees and branches are located in an area right next to a marina. There are yachts that are up on racks, and covered with plastic shrouds for the winter. Those yachts are probably 100 feet away from where I'd be burning. Those brush-piles are not on "solid" ground, but rather, on a thick "spongy" layer of dead vegetation that's accumulated over many years. The potential for a ground-fire exists, but, he came up with a brilliant idea. "Cover the piles with a tarp to keep them dry, then wait 'til the first snow comes. Uncover the pile and burn it". The snow would reduce the ground-fire risk. The snow is probably a month away, and here in Quebec, that first storm could easily drop a foot of snow, so that's a concern as well.

We discussed the smaller chipper option, and he too had concern about the chippers' "gravity feed". That said, a Popular Mechanics Magazine review of the *8HP* 3" BearCat chipper said this;
*
Chipping: The Echo Bear Cat takes such an aggressive bite we had to hold large branches back to keep the machine from pulling them in faster than it could chew. You can stall it, or any of the other machines, if you're not paying attention. While we didn't like that aggressive pull, Echo Bear Cat says that for many homeowners, it's one of the machine's top selling points—but that reducing the gap between the chipper blade and the cutter bar produces smaller chips and less pulling force.*

*Bottom Line: This machine chips aggressively, making it a good fit for rural property owners who do more chipping than shredding. Its heavy construction should help it hold up well.*

The Salsco 3.5" unit I'm looking at*, *is much more robust than that particular model of BearCat.*(8 HP). *The BearCat that I was looking at, and mentioned at the start of this thread, is the *12HP* model.


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## BC WetCoast

Roger Dodger said:


> For your information BC WetCoast, I've got a guy with a 6" chipper coming to price the job tomorrow. This is only one of the solutions I've been looking at.
> 
> There's no point in discussing a smaller chipper here.
> 
> Skid steers??? 6+ inch chippers with hydraulic infeeds to get rid of trees that were cut with a 2" hand-lopper??? Really???
> 
> Thanks anyway.



If it was my job, I'd be using a skid steer with a branch manager grapple and a 12" chipper. 6" chippers are just as big a pain to feed as a 3". Work smarter not harder. But it sounds like you want to make this job into a career.


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## TheJollyLogger

I love how the PM review and bearcat's response makes it sound like having to pull back on the limb to keep it from stalling is a selling point.


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## Roger Dodger

TheJollyLogger said:


> I love how the PM review and bearcat's response makes it sound like having to pull back on the limb to keep it from stalling is a selling point.



I guess those guys just can't win either way. One minute folks are complaining that you have to "push" material in by hand,,, and now some complain that it feeds "too aggressively". Is it any wonder why I'm scratching my head, and trying to get specific answers from guys who have actually used some of these machines,,,, rather than simply theorizing and stereotyping them as being "all the same"?


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## TheJollyLogger

Roger, you just aren't listening. No One uses these machines! Suckers buy these machines, use them once, kick thrmselves for not listening, and then sell it on Craigslist for ten cents on the dollar. Do you think you're the first retired guy that thought he saw a way to make some easy money, got stuck in the middle of a job, asked us for advice, didn't like what he heard, and then went out and lost his butt?
At this point you're not asking for advice, you're asking for permission, so by all means, go drop $3,000 on that sucker and prove us wrong.


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## Roger Dodger

TheJollyLogger said:


> Roger, you just aren't listening. No One uses these machines! Suckers buy these machines, use them once, kick thrmselves for not listening, and then sell it on Craigslist for ten cents on the dollar. Do you think you're the first retired guy that thought he saw a way to make some easy money, got stuck in the middle of a job, asked us for advice, didn't like what he heard, and then went out and lost his butt?
> At this point you're not asking for advice, you're asking for permission, so by all means, go drop $3,000 on that sucker and prove us wrong.



Oh, I'm "listening" alright,,, which is why one of the options I'm considering involved hiring the guy with the 6" chipper. Trouble is, nobody here can give me a straight answer as to how a machine like the 3.5" Salsco performs.

Given your recommendation that nothing less than a 12" chipper will do for chipping 2" trees, despite me repeatedly saying that you can't get a large chipper down where I need it,,,, you've got me thinking that I need to hire a steam-shovel for my dog, so he can bury his bone in the back-yard.


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## old_soul

re


Roger Dodger said:


> Oh, I'm "listening" alright,,, which is why one of the options I'm considering involved hiring the guy with the 6" chipper. Trouble is, nobody here can give me a straight answer as to how a machine like the 3.5" Salsco performs.
> 
> Given your recommendation that nothing less than a 12" chipper will do for chipping 2" trees, despite me repeatedly saying that you can't get a large chipper down where I need it,,,, you've got me thinking that I need to hire a steam-shovel for my dog, so he can bury his bone in the back-yard.




Remember when talking tools or equipment, overkill is always better


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## Roger Dodger

old_soul said:


> re
> 
> 
> 
> Remember when talking tools or equipment, overkill is always better



I resemble that remark. (usually anyway).


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## sac-climber

Roger, a 12" chipper and Bobcat may sound over kill but you may be surprised. Plain and simple any gravity feed chipper whether 8hp or 20hp is going to be a major pain in the ass considering the amount of work it sounds like you have to do. Take it from guys that do this work everyday when we tell you to forget about a <6" capacity chipper. Honestly 6" is probably to small. Your better off letting them rot than fighting a 3" chipper for weeks on end. 

So here is the straight answer; anything that is gravity feed, smaller than 6", and less than 25hp is a waste of time and money.


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## Marshy

Got a pictures of this project? Why the heck were you using loppers to clear that large of a plot and not an industrial sized weed wacker with a blade on it? Sounds like your taking the same approach and undersizing the equipment you need. If it was me I will attach a snatch block in a tree at the top of the ridge in a tree about 10' off the ground and take a rope and run it down the hill to the piles. Bungle the piles up and wrap the rope around the pile. Tire the other end of the rope to the back of your civic (or what ever you drive) and pull the piles up the hill... if burning it wasnt an option. Then you only have to drag the piles across the hill and not to the top.


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## Zale

Roger Dodger said:


> I guess those guys just can't win either way. One minute folks are complaining that you have to "push" material in by hand,,, and now some complain that it feeds "too aggressively". Is it any wonder why I'm scratching my head, and trying to get specific answers from guys who have actually used some of these machines,,,, rather than simply theorizing and stereotyping them as being "all the same"?



We are not theorizing about these machines. With these small machines you will have to handle the brush as it is fed into the machine. You will either be pushing it or holding it back because the machine is too "aggressive". Either way you will be handling every sick that goes through the machine. That will get very tiring. If I was in my mid 60's I'd be grabbing the can of gas. Wait for your first snow and burn the piles.


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## Roger Dodger

Marshy said:


> Got a pictures of this project? Why the heck were you using loppers to clear that large of a plot and not an industrial sized weed wacker with a blade on it? Sounds like your taking the same approach and undersizing the equipment you need. If it was me I will attach a snatch block in a tree at the top of the ridge in a tree about 10' off the ground and take a rope and run it down the hill to the piles. Bungle the piles up and wrap the rope around the pile. Tire the other end of the rope to the back of your civic (or what ever you drive) and pull the piles up the hill... if burning it wasnt an option. Then you only have to drag the piles across the hill and not to the top.



Actually Marshy, I used a bunch of tools, not just 2" loppers. You really had to be there in order to see what I was up against. When this project started, the owner simply wanted to open up a better "view" to the river, and he asked me to cut some branches off the very tall trees down by the river-bank, so he could watch the boats go by. Well, long story short, there was a brush-field between his house, and those "trees by the river", and those big trees by the river-bank were 400 feet away. When I tried getting to those trees, the brush-field I had to pass through was completely impassable. There was literally a wall of trees (small Sumac saplings 12'-15' high, and choked beyond belief,,,mostly clusters of less-than 2" trunks growing from previously chopped stumps. From ground-level to chest height, it was all wood-stemmed thorny brush, mixed with vines, thistle, poison ivy,,,, you name it. I used weed-whackers, gas hedge-trimmers, machetes, my Silky Hayauchi 21' pole-saw, a bunch of Silky hand-saws(Sugowaza 420) and choppers, and an 18-foor Marvin lopper, and hand-loppers. There were no "clearings" to stack brush, so I carved and chopped my way into various areas, and started cutting around myself wherever I was standing, in order to make clearings to lay the brush down. As those clearings grew, things became a bit easier, but many times I'd find myself standing on piles of brush and trees that had been cut and dropped many years earlier, and left to rot. I had to climb over rotting logs from previously felled trees (24" diameter), and twisted Cedar branches.

The brush piles (12 of them), are mostly anywhere from 15 to 30 feet wide,,,, and the pile that's furthest away (400') is probably 70' long(across the base). This is not skimpy little piles of "sticks" that you can wrap a rope (or chain) around, and haul with a "Honda Civic". Trust me. (I drive an Acura RL by the way).

I'll try to snap a few pics tomorrow.

Some may be under the impression that all I'm doing there, is clearing land. This is not the case. In the last 8 days straight of working, I've been demolishing part of a building. In my spare time, before and after work,,, I'm trying to research machinery and tools, and trying to establish contacts with local brush-clearing contractors,,, talking to municipal officials,,, neighbours,,, looking for helpers,,, etc.


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## Roger Dodger

Zale said:


> We are not theorizing about these machines. With these small machines you will have to handle the brush as it is fed into the machine. You will either be pushing it or holding it back because the machine is too "aggressive". Either way you will be handling every sick that goes through the machine. That will get very tiring. If I was in my mid 60's I'd be grabbing the can of gas. Wait for your first snow and burn the piles.



I agree Zale, but as I stated earlier, it's late Fall here in south-western Quebec, and all the trees have shed their leaves. The ground is covered with layers of long-dead brush, leaves, and there's a marina right beside where I'd be burning. I have access to a single garden-hose in case the fire spreads. Even if you soak the fire-pit and "think" the fire is out at the end of the day, it doesn't take much for a few wind gusts to re-kindle that fire during the night when I'm away. I live 20 miles away, and this property I'm clearing is currently uninhabited.


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## Marshy

Roger Dodger said:


> Actually Marshy, I used a bunch of tools, not just 2" loppers. You really had to be there in order to see what I was up against. When this project started, the owner simply wanted to open up a better "view" to the river, and he asked me to cut some branches off the very tall trees down by the river-bank, so he could watch the boats go by. Well, long story short, there was a brush-field between his house, and those "trees by the river", and those big trees by the river-bank were 400 feet away. When I tried getting to those trees, the brush-field I had to pass through was completely impassable. There was literally a wall of trees (small Sumac saplings 12'-15' high, and choked beyond belief,,,mostly clusters of less-than 2" trunks growing from previously chopped stumps. From ground-level to chest height, it was all wood-stemmed thorny brush, mixed with vines, thistle, poison ivy,,,, you name it. I used weed-whackers, gas hedge-trimmers, machetes, my Silky Hayauchi 21' pole-saw, a bunch of Silky hand-saws and choppers, and an 18-foor Marvin lopper, and hand-loppers. There were no "clearings" to stack brush, so I carved and chopped my way into various areas, and started cutting around myself wherever I was standing, in order to make clearings to lay the brush down. As those clearings grew, things became a bit easier, but many times I'd find myself standing on piles of brush and trees that had been cut and dropped many years earlier, and left to rot. I had to climb over rotting logs from previously felled trees (24" diameter), and twisted Cedar branches.
> 
> The brush piles (12 of them), are mostly anywhere from 15 to 30 feet wide,,,, and the pile that's furthest away (400') is probably 70' long(across the base). This is not skimpy little piles of "sticks" that you can wrap a rope (or chain) around, and haul with a "Honda Civic". Trust me. (I drive an Acura RL by the way).
> 
> I'll try to snap a few pics tomorrow.
> 
> Some may be under the impression that all I'm doing there, is clearing land. This is not the case. In the last 8 days straight of working, I've been demolishing part of a building. In my spare time, before and after work,,, I'm trying to research machinery and tools, and trying to establish contacts with local brush-clearing contractors,,, talking to municipal officials,,, neighbours,,, looking for helpers,,, etc.



Honestly I couldn't imagine using a machine as small as the bearcat for the volume of material you just described. That's not some thing your going to accomplish in just a weekend or two. GL


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## Roger Dodger

Marshy said:


> Honestly I couldn't imagine using a machine as small as the bearcat for the volume of material you just described. That's not some thing your going to accomplish in just a weekend or two. GL



It's a challenge alright, but with the maneuverability of the smaller machine over difficult terrain, I'd have full access to the piles. I'd only be chipping the smaller stuff (under 3"). Assuming I can find a machine that'll chip a 12' tall (or less) 2" sapling in 15 seconds, I'd be able to do roughly 240 of those saplings per hour. In a 6-hour day, close to 1500 of them. In four days,,, close to 6000.

Again, Sumac is VERY soft, and the branches mostly snap off the trunk with a twist of the wrist, so I wouldn't be spending much time lopping branches off the trunks. The bigger/harder stuff would be temporarily tossed aside, and eventually burned in a much smaller and better controlled area, away from the marina, and closer to a water-supply.


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## Roger Dodger

Well, here's a horrid attempt at posting a pic. Unfortunately, I can't rotate this picture clockwise.

This picture (if someone can rotate it for me) shows a view of the river, *before* I started working. The owner wanted me to trim the tallest trees along the river-bank.

Now if you look *below the waterline, *you'll see a small fraction of the tops of the trees which I hadn't yet started cutting.

The picture was shot from the balcony of the house, located some 20 feet or so above the tops of the shorter trees in the foreground, and the camera was zoomed in on the river, so a lot of the foreground is not visible here. Unfortunately, it's the only pic I have at the moment, but it does give you some idea of the density of the brush-trees. (zero clearings). The area I cleared is roughly 4 times the width of what you see here, and is now an open "meadow". Only the tallest trees remain. (70-100') Those short trees in the foreground, were mostly 10-15' tall, with a few 20 footers for good measure.


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## Roger Dodger

OK, here's a better pic to illustrate the density of those brush-trees I cut. This was at the start of the job, and I had just spent a few days making a clearing so I could have space to stack the brush. For scale, I'm holding a 12-foot pole-pruner, fully extended. Check out the density of the bush to my right. (the pictures' left side). That's how the "clearing" looked when I started.


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## Toddppm

Well now I think the Bearcat will work perfect for that situation.


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## ncpete

Toddppm said:


> Well now I think the Bearcat will work perfect for that situation.


Sarcasm alert!


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## sac-climber

Toddppm, I have to disagree. I think the bearcat may be overkill.

Something like this will be better suited for the task....Hopefully the OP has access to an outlet.


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## Roger Dodger

OK. I just ordered this one; Maximum portability,,, no electrons consumed.


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## sac-climber

Touché 

Seriously though Roger, your over your head here. We're at like tub grinder status. Don't give the bearcat or salsco a second thought.


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## Roger Dodger

sac-climber said:


> Touché
> 
> Seriously though Roger, your over your head here. We're at like tub grinder status. Don't give the bearcat or salsco a second thought.



I'm not losing any sleep over it.  A match may still end up being the solution, but at least, I'm learning a thing or two about small chippers.

I spoke to a couple of dealers today,(Salsco and Wallenstein). I may go see the Salsco in operation later this week. If they make me an interesting offer on financing,,,, maybe. One dealer says he also has a few used machines that I may be interested in.


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## BuckmasterStumpGrinding

Bring your own wood and test it for about 5 minutes.


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## jefflovstrom

I just realized that I have not chimed in on this thread,
Be right back,, gonna get a beer,,
Jeff


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## KenJax Tree

here we go!!


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## jefflovstrom

Roger Dodger said:


> OK. I just ordered this one; Maximum portability,,, no electrons consumed.




Hey Roger* the Dodger,*,your post of a carrot peeler pic proves you are a troll!
You are either a trouble maker, a troll, someone banned and bent on revenge,
*or just dumb*. Whatever it is you are,, either listen to us or shut up,
Welcome,
Jeff


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## jefflovstrom

It was a beautiful day!
Jeff


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## Roger Dodger

jefflovstrom said:


> Hey Roger* the Dodger,*,your post of a carrot peeler pic proves you are a troll!
> You are either a trouble maker, a troll, someone banned and bent on revenge,
> *or just dumb*. Whatever it is you are,, either listen to us or shut up,
> Welcome,
> Jeff



Well, I hope you at least brought a few extra beers for the rest of us.opcorn:

Psst,,,,Jeff,,,,, get close to the screen, so no-one else sees this,,,,,,,,, it's a p-o-t-a-t-o peeler. Ya want me to put an "e" on the end of potato(e)???


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## TheJollyLogger

String words from a guy with an acre and a half of brush he has no idea what to do with. Way to turn a day job into an ordeal.


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## Roger Dodger

BuckmasterStumpGrinding said:


> Bring your own wood and test it for about 5 minutes.



I will. There's a short video here, of the smallest Salsco chipper, the 8HP 608. Look at the right-hand column of this link, and click "video". This lil' sucker eats wood faster than Jeff can eat a c-a-r-r-o-t. 

http://payeur.com/tracteur/608-2/


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## TheJollyLogger

Not that I'm willing to waste any more time with this idiot, but I would pay money to watch him try and feed a chuck and duck... just sayin...


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## Roger Dodger

TheJollyLogger said:


> Not that I'm willing to waste any more time with this idiot, but I would pay money to watch him try and feed a chuck and duck... just sayin...



OK JollyLogger,,,,sorry to see you go, but hey,,, thanks anyway for the great ummm,,,"advice".


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## blades

to Roger: I have a bear cat 5" 20hp ( honda) model chipper shredder. It is a very good unit and as the pm article stated aggressively pulls material in to the point that it could stall out the engine. I also have no problem with it destroying 5" dried out buckthorn Which is close to Iron wood ( Hopbeam). Ok, that said, the 3" unit is going to be an exercise in extreme patience - from the size stated of the brush piles you might finish by next spring. Purely a time thing the unit can do it if getting the max hp unit. Robins are/were good engines . If it was your property i would say go for it but as this a for pay job I would be highly skeptical of your estimated time of completion as evidenced by the quote you received. From personal experience with small diameter brush 80% of the time it will take will be trimming the brush to fit the feed hoppers. Now as this is a shredder also like mine anything under 3/4" ( on mine) can be fed into that hopper still require some trimming of items not to pliable. When the material gets caught by the flail knives it goes whoosh not somewhere you want to be with your appendages.
As far as burning- basically you are on what amounts to peat bog- burning on top of that snow or no snow is not a good idea, the fire will get way down into it and be a serious problem to extinguish even when digging it up. I have been involved with a couple similar areas that the land owners burned brush over in winter - one was still smoldering over a year later and that was after excavation and 1000's of gallons of water directed at it. There is oxygen trapped down below in the mix it becomes self perpetuating.
By the way I had a 50ft boxwood tree dropped about a year ago- the service just put it on the ground( electric wires in the way, didn't want to risk it) It took me a full day plus to make mulch out of the stuff 40 mm or less in dia. (apx 1.5"). Best wishes on your endevor. hope this was of some help


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## Roger Dodger

blades said:


> to Roger: I have a bear cat 5" 20hp ( honda) model chipper shredder. It is a very good unit and as the pm article stated aggressively pulls material in to the point that it could stall out the engine. I also have no problem with it destroying 5" dried out buckthorn Which is close to Iron wood ( Hopbeam). Ok, that said, the 3" unit is going to be an exercise in extreme patience - from the size stated of the brush piles you might finish by next spring. Purely a time thing the unit can do it if getting the max hp unit. Robins are/were good engines . If it was your property i would say go for it but as this a for pay job I would be highly skeptical of your estimated time of completion as evidenced by the quote you received. From personal experience with small diameter brush 80% of the time it will take will be trimming the brush to fit the feed hoppers. Now as this is a shredder also like mine anything under 3/4" ( on mine) can be fed into that hopper still require some trimming of items not to pliable. When the material gets caught by the flail knives it goes whoosh not somewhere you want to be with your appendages.
> As far as burning- basically you are on what amounts to peat bog- burning on top of that snow or no snow is not a good idea, the fire will get way down into it and be a serious problem to extinguish even when digging it up. I have been involved with a couple similar areas that the land owners burned brush over in winter - one was still smoldering over a year later and that was after excavation and 1000's of gallons of water directed at it. There is oxygen trapped down below in the mix it becomes self perpetuating.
> By the way I had a 50ft boxwood tree dropped about a year ago- the service just put it on the ground( electric wires in the way, didn't want to risk it) It took me a full day plus to make mulch out of the stuff 40 mm or less in dia. (apx 1.5"). Best wishes on your endevor. hope this was of some help



Blades, Thank you VERY MUCH for that very concise assessment,,,, and I couldn't possibly agree more, especially with respect to burning..

There's something I should clarify for those who are not fully aware of the situation regarding this job,,, and that is; the job "changed" long the way. Let me explain;

Phase 1. I started out working for the terminally-ill 94 year-old property owner, and his goal was simply to have me trim some branches off the tallest trees by the river, so he could sit on his deck and watch the boats go by. Those trees were obstructing his view. He apparently had weeks to live at that point. I started out carving a "path" to those trees,,,, and there were no plans to clear that property. Unfortunately, that gentleman passed away less than a week later,,,,, before I had even started on that job. At the time, I was doing other work for him as well. After he passed away, his wife moved to a seniors' residence.

Phase 2; a "new" boss,

When the gentleman passed away, his daughter, who lives out-of-province, asked me to continue with that project. Basically, she asked me to be the grounds-keeper for the property. The house at this point was unoccupied, and there was no rush to trim those trees. The house would continue to be unoccupied until at least next Spring (2015), at which point it would most likely be sold. I decided to tackle the project in the cooler Fall weather,,, after the flies and mosquitoes were gone.

Phase 3; After I started trimming the trees, it was only then that she "considered" clearing the rest of that acreage. She did change her mind a few times along the way, but ultimately, after she came to see what had been done, she was very impressed, and felt that it was a great improvement to the property.(selling feature). I was a little concerned about cost, but in her own words, she said "I feel I'm getting great value for money spent". If she's happy,,,, I'm happy. I feel very responsible for this property, especially since I've known the family for 60 years. There is also a potential here, for me to continue as grounds-keeper for several more years, and, I enjoy working there. I treat it as if it were my own property.

That said; why am I considering a 3- 3 1/2" chipper? Well, as I've stated earlier, there's no rush to finish the job, and the bulk of the work has been done. If I continue as grounds-keeper for another year or more, there will be occasions when a small mobile machine will easily meet my needs, since I'd only be trimming ornamental bushes and trees, and cleaning up dead branches, and an incredible amount of fallen leaves, etc. A well-designed and constructed combination chipper/shredder would probably be the best solution here, and I can leave the machine on-site. I have no other clients, and would only consider other jobs based on word-of-mouth reference. Once my tenure is up, I could simply sell the machine, or keep it for cleaning my own property.

So where has this brought me insofar as purchasing the "right machine for this job" is concerned? Well, I just got a call from a financial-services agent, regarding the purchase of a 3", 13HP Wallenstein BXMT chipper-shredder.($4,100. plus 15% tax). She offered me a rate of 2.5% over 48 months, (roughly $94./mo.), with no money down. This is a very well-built and designed machine,,, Canadian-made,,, and built like a tank,,,virtually indestructible. 3"x6" chipper throat, and 1" shredding capacity. Nice road-towable package too. The dealer is 3 minutes away. It's mighty tempting at this point.

Here's a few links; (Wallenstein BXMT 3213)

http://www.embmfg.com/Forestry/Chipper_Shredder/BXMT-Models.aspx#bxmt3213

http://www.embmfg.com/Forestry/Chipper_Shredder/BXMT-Models.aspx#bxmt3213



I'm also going to check out the 3.5" Salsco today, but it's a lighter package, and "chipping" only.(no shredder)


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## Marshy

I think someone already said it nicely... You have our permission.


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## Zale

Go for it. Can we please lock this thread now?


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## sac-climber




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## Roger Dodger

Question; If you don't "like" it,,, why the heck are you still reading and responding? Personally, I had a heckuva time trying to find accurate info on this class of machine, and hopefully, someone else out there who's going through the same experience, will get something positive out of this thread.

That said, I went and saw the 3.5 Salsco 608 today, but no "demo". $3k. Claims to be "road-towable" but only to a maximum of 35mph. (trailer has a rigid axle, no suspension, very small tires). Solidly built, but the overall fit and finish is not stellar.

I also went to a Kubota dealership to see if they had anything, and they did carry the Wallenstein line. They only had two PTO-driven machines in-stock, so again, no demo of the machine I'm looking for. (BXMT3213). Just for kicks, I asked him for his "best price" on that Wallenstein, and lo and behold, he was $500 more expensive than my local dealer ($4600. vs $4100. CDN). From a component-quality perspective, the BXMT is vastly superior to the Salsco 608. MUCH beefier trailer and tires, plus it has a suspension axle, and 2" ball fitting. Centrifugal clutch too. The 2-knife rotor is also almost double the weight (70 lbs vs roughly 35 lbs), and 17" diameter, vs 13". (higher tip-speed). Honda 13HP engine vs B&S 8HP. 30-knife 1" shredder vs no shredder option on the 608. 360* rotation chute on the Wallenstein,,,fixed on the Salsco. Mind you, that 3.5" Salsco is over $1k. cheaper. I believe Wallenstein also has one in the same $3k. price-range as the 608, but I haven't looked at it.(BXMT 3902???)

Given that my local Wallenstein dealer is offering the 2.5% financing rate, and $500. cheaper than Kubotas' best offer, it looks like the Wallenstein BXMT3213 is going to be my choice.

Thanks for all your comments and input,,, both the positive, as well as the negative. I would have killed to own a 6" hydraulically-fed chipper, but it just wasn't in the cards (nor the budget).


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## TheJollyLogger

So... you are now going to be the proud owner of a $4,000 400 pound machine with no infeed. 
Too small to do the job, too heavy to manhandle next to the piles. lmao


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## Roger Dodger

TheJollyLogger said:


> So... you are now going to be the proud owner of a $4,000 400 pound machine with no infeed.
> Too small to do the job, too heavy to manhandle next to the piles. lmao



I guess you have a reading comprehension issue, so let's reiterate. I'll have a $94./mo machine, that will handle over 95% of the trees I cut, and weighing 520 lbs, which I manhandle quite easily. It's got these round things underneath,,, called "wheels". My trailer weighs 680 lbs, and I have no trouble with that one either. It's got those same round thingies. 

Now, I may yet not buy that machine,,, I was simply evaluating which machine would best suit my needs and budget. It'll depend on what the customer finally decides, plus a few other factors. In two days, I should have my answer. It also appears that I may now get work from the marina next door, as well as the neighbour on the opposite side. Hey it may be modest, but it's a start.

And just to add a lil' more "spice" to this mix, I came across a new(to me) machine today,,,,WITH hydraulic feed, plus it's self-propelled. It's a 4" machine by Eliet. Ultra compact too. Google, here I come again!!!


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## Roger Dodger

On second thought, (and first peek),,,, I think I'll pass on the Eliet. The videos are bloody awful, despite the hydraulic feed.


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## BC WetCoast

So now we're going from a very narrow steep pathway that you can barely walk down, let alone a 36" wide mini loader, to manhandling a 400lb chipper that is 44" wide down this same steep path. Going to haul this new toy with the excavator that will be building your new road down the hill?


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## Roger Dodger

BC WetCoast said:


> So now we're going from a very narrow steep pathway that you can barely walk down, let alone a 36" wide mini loader, to manhandling a 400lb chipper that is 44" wide down this same steep path. Going to haul this new toy with the excavator that will be building your new road down the hill?



I guess you didn't read the part where I said we can get a 6" chipper down there by using the neighbours' property and driveway. She has already agreed. Plus the part where I had a contractor with his own 6" chipper estimate the job, but he said he would only do the actual chipping, but not the hauling of the material to the stationary chipper. He said that there's probably a weeks' work just bringing the material to the chipper.

The suggestion that you can "pull" the piles to a stationary chipper parked in the main driveway doesn't work, because there's no straight-shot to the piles, and the piles are too big. But hey,,,, maybe you have a 400-foot magic chain that can pull a 20-30 foot pile of brush around curves, trees, stumps, and boulders when taut and under pressure.

Bottom line; we have to work within a budget. The 3" chipper will do 90+% of the trees/brush, and we'll burn or leave the rest. Whether we spend three days hauling wood to a stationary 6" chipper, or spend three days chipping with a mobile chipper that we bring to the wood, ain't gonna make a whole lot of difference. Plus we have a permanent machine that we can use to maintain the property the following year(s).

The contractors' suggestion that there's "a weeks work" bringing the brush-piles to a stationary 6" chipper is horse-pebbles in my opinion. I cut and dragged that stuff myself, so I think I have some idea of how long it would take.

When I presented our options to the land-owner, she decided that the 3" chipper was the best option to follow, and that was from a safety perspective (no "kids/helpers" working around a rented 6" chipper), less disturbance to the neighbours (which matters to her), and less risk of fire. (due to proximity of the marina next door).

If budget were not an issue, I'd have gone with a used 6" hydraulically-fed PTO driven chipper and a good-sized tractor capable of driving it, and moving it. I'll say again, that ain't gonna happen. I've got a 27 HP John Deere X-500 garden-tractor, but no PTO.(54" mowing deck) We also have access to a smaller lawn tractor for moving the 520 lb. Wallenstein if need be. We're not going to get that Wallenstein everywhere we'd like, but reasonably close is good enough.


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## ncpete

Interested to hear more about your experience with the wallenstein machine when you have it.


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## Roger Dodger

ncpete said:


> Interested to hear more about your experience with the wallenstein machine when you have it.



Will do ncpete. The bigger Wallensteins that I saw yesterday, were about as good as it gets within their category. Really well thought out and designed, and top-shelf materials throughout, right down to the finest details. I've checked out hundreds of reviews on the tractor forums, and I've yet to read a bad word about any of the Wallensteins. Also, the fact that my local Wallenstein dealer is so close, and offering such a good price as well as a great financing option, I really don't think I can go wrong. Heck, I may have even considered the smaller BXMT 3902, which I believe has the same 70 lb./17" rotor, but with a light-duty trailer, and a 9HP Honda engine vs the 13HP Honda engine on the BXMT 3213. That 3209 would probably be ideal for that type of work, as long as you don't need "highway" towing.

One thing that I haven't mentioned here yet,,, all of the BXMT series (except the 3209), have electric start. The 27-knife 1' shredder will come in handy too.

I'm still going to take a few pics of the brush piles. Hopefully by tomorrow.


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## Toddppm

Roger Dodger said:


> This job is a one-shot deal by the way. I'm retired, 66 years old, and have no intention of doing more of this kind of work.



Guess a few days makes the pain go away huh? Now thinking about starting a small business


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## Roger Dodger

Toddppm said:


> Guess a few days makes the pain go away huh? Now thinking about starting a small business



Ya know Toddppm, I'd kill to to just that, but I have to be realistic and factor in my age (I'll be 70 in 3 1/2 years), plus the fact that I've got virtually no disc left between my L-4- and L-5 vertebrae. I can still put in a decent days' work once I'm warmed up, but I sometime pay the price for days afterwards. That said, I really enjoyed doing this job, and didn't even notice my back. Walking in the bush is certainly a lot easier on me than walking on rigid surfaces, like concrete or pavement.

Aside from looking at chippers, I've also been looking at trucks; in fact, I just got home from my local Toyota dealership. Just kickin' tires mind you. If I was 100 % certain that I could get enough work, then maybe.,,,; winters are pretty long up here.(4 1/2 months under snow)

I had considered the possibility of getting a truck next Spring anyway, plus I already have a fair amount of equipment that would allow me to do smaller residential jobs; general grounds clean-up, etc.

As far as the math is concerned, everything I own is paid for, plus Toyota is offering 0.9% lease-financing on a new truck, and the lease is transferable. A brand new 4x4 6cyl Tacoma, or v-8 Tundra would be roughly $500.mo. If I were to commit, then discover this is not for me, or that my back finally gives up, I'd probably have a relatively easy time getting rid of the truck.

Assuming I went that far, it would be a short leap to getting a flat-bed trailer,,,, a small Kubota tractor (they're offering 0% financing/6 years), and a 6" PTO chipper. Kubota yesterday, offered me a virtually brand new 6" hydraulically-fed Wallenstein PTO chipper, for $4k.(less than 1/2 price) It's a finance-repossession, and was used for only one job according to the salesman. I looked at it yesterday, and it's clean as a whistle. The dealership can't sell it just yet, since the customer still has the possibility of getting caught up, but apparently it looks like that won't happen.

As far as on-hand equipment goes, I already have the following;

John Deere X-500/54" deck, 27 HP garden tractor with just over 10 hours on it.
John Deere 17 cu.ft. cart
John Deere 42" leaf-rake
Toro commercial walk-behind self-propelled mower
brand new Echo 60cc chainsaw
Echos' largest back-pack blower
Echo gas hedge-trimmer
Echo pole-pruner/chainsaw,,,the biggest model(PP-266???)
Silky Hayauchi 21' pole-saw
Marvin Professional 18' pole lopper with several Marvin heads
a bunch of Silky hand-saws, choppers, hatchet, machete, etc.
and a bunch of hand loppers, axes, and various other hand-tools, ladders, and safety equipment.
4'x8' one-ton utility trailer.
two weed-whackers (Honda UMK-431 and Tanaka 255)

I could be up and running in a week if I wanted to. The business would be debt-free, with only the leases on the truck and the Kubota tractor to deal with. Throw a big snow-blower on the tractor, and I could operate year round. With brand new vehicles and machines, initial maintenance costs would be negligible/nil, so there would be fuel and insurance to pay, a few adverts in the local paper, and that's about it.

Ya see how cheap it is to dream???


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## jefflovstrom

opcorn:
Jeff


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## Toddppm

Inactivity is your worse enemy, just don't overdo it! And keep your feet on the ground!


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## Roger Dodger

Toddppm said:


> Inactivity is your worse enemy, just don't overdo it! And keep your feet on the ground!



So true, not only physically, but mentally as well. When you reach that "certain something " age, and the kids and the wife are gone, you need to be passionately interested and involved in something. Going 1/2 way on something, has just never been my style. That said, I'm in anguish today..... When they filed the credit application for $4k for the 3" BXMT, Wallensteins' financial services affiliate came back a few minutes later with a pre-approval for up to $50k. worth of equipment, at 2.4%. It's possible I may go up to the 4" machine,,, but that's another class all together, and more awkward to move around. It's a much bigger machine (7' tall/ 1080 lbs.) Chipper/shredder combo with 2" shred, and a 25" diameter 170 lb. rotor. I believe the chipper throat is 10" x 4". I'll think it through over the weekend. I've gotta talk to a few potential customers before taking that plunge.


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## blades

ya ain't going to be hoofing that toy around. So when are you signing the papers on the tractor ? Course now ya gots to go and visit the trailer dealers and your going to be needing that truck to pull it around so back to those stealerships as well. Vicious circle- it is a disease called EAD ( Equipment Acquisition disease).


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## BuckmasterStumpGrinding

Get the tractor with the pto chipper. Anything less will be a waste of money.


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## Roger Dodger

blades said:


> ya ain't going to be hoofing that toy around. So when are you signing the papers on the tractor ? Course now ya gots to go and visit the trailer dealers and your going to be needing that truck to pull it around so back to those stealerships as well. Vicious circle- it is a disease called EAD ( Equipment Acquisition disease).



Yeah, I know that disease all to well,,, but in my circle(musician), it's called G.A.S. (gear acquisition syndrome). I have something like 24-25 stringed instruments,,, mostly steel-string acoustic guitars, but also ukeleles, banjos, mandolins, basses, dobro, acoustic-electric, electric, classical, etc. Amazing what you collect over the years. I think I'm a sicko, but I sure have fun with that stuff.






Regarding the equipment,,, I'm going to have to do a LOT more research before deciding whether or not I want to get into this type of work. It's one thing to know that I can get the equipment anytime I want, but, I also need to find out if there's a viable market here first. I've got a bunch of people to talk to yet, and I started that ball rolling this afternoon. I went to meet the guy who runs the marina next door, and he tells me they had a 6" chipper running 8 hours a day, for about a week, clearing an area for the marinas' expansion.(8 man crew cutting trees). Another guy I wanna talk to, is my girlfriends' daughters' ex,,,, he has a large forestry company, and I'd imagine he refuses a lot of small jobs that he could pass on to me. I'm also going to talk to a local landscaper-friend, to see if we could form some kind of business alliance. I don't believe he works with chippers, or maintains trees.. I think he's more into lawn and garden services.

As for a tractor, I've got a lead on a nearly-new Kioti tractor, but I don't know which model just yet.(friend of a friend type thing) I should know by Monday. If I were to buy that tractor, it would obviously have to be powerful enough to drive a PTO chipper, and that in turn means, a different financial structure to the business ("buy" vs lease-to-own). Lots to think about, and we're supposed to get snow-flurries tonight. (winter's just around the corner). Our local weather forecast says we'll have an overnight low temperature of -8 degrees Celsius Sunday night. (17* Fahrenheit)


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## Roger Dodger

BuckmasterStumpGrinding said:


> Get the tractor with the pto chipper. Anything less will be a waste of money.



Yeah, that's probably what I'd do if I bought the tractor. That nearly-new 6" hydraulic-feed Wallenstein that Kubota offered me yesterday, looks like a real bargain at $4k. Mind you, I don't know squat at this stage about how much PTO-power I need to drive that chipper. There's a lot of good info on the tractor forums though.


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## Roger Dodger

Well, as promised, here are a few pics.
This view is from the side of the house. The back-yard lawn you see is a plateau, with a steep drop-off of 8-12 feet to the lower-level where the brush has been cleared. (click image to enlarge)

The second pic, is a view of the back of the house, viewed from the newly cleared lower-level. Note that there are three levels to the land. The back yard of the house is roughly 8-10 feet lower than the driveway at the front of the house, and the newly cleared area is another 8-12 feet lower than the back yard.(IMG_1147)

The third pic shows one of the brush-piles, and the white objects you see are some of the boats at the marina. They're covered in white shrouds to keep the snow off. Note the sheer number, and the small diameter of the brush-trees in that stack. Virtually all of them are under 1"-1 1/2". (IMG_1148)

Pic #4 shows more boats, less than 100 feet away from the only possible burning area. With only a garden-hose available for fire control, it's a risk the owner is not willing to take, and I agree. The winds coming off the river can get pretty strong. (IMG_1151)

Pic #5 shows the area where I'd have to park a larger stationary chipper.(IMG_1161)

Pic # 6 is a view of part of the cleared area, and was taken from the back yard. (IMG-1168)


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## TheJollyLogger

Are you kidding me? I would have scheduled a second job for the afternoon. This poor lady is getting ripped off.


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## Roger Dodger

TheJollyLogger said:


> Are you kidding me? I would have scheduled a second job for the afternoon. This poor lady is getting ripped off.



,,,I'd be willing to bet that you're a "the glass is half empty" kinda guy. 

First off, you have no idea how long this job took in the first place,,, and,,,you have very little idea of scale, when looking at some of those pics. You're only seeing a tiny fraction of the job when looking down from the back yard. One pile alone, down by the river on the right-hand side, measures 70 feet long across its' base. You can't see that pile in these pics.

Funny how the other contractor who came to give me an estimate last week said; "There's over a weeks' work there, just dragging the brush to the chipper, even with a helper,,,, then another day-and-a-half just passing this stuff through his 6" hydraulic-feed chipper. He wanted no part of the job of dragging the wood-piles to the chipper,,,,,, chipping only,,,,$700.

But hey,,,, if you have another spare "half-day",,,, you're welcome to it.


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## Marshy

I'd drag the brush down by the waters edge and light a fire. I'd probably take a day to burn it all over by the shore line... Its always easier to drag it down hill.


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## Roger Dodger

Marshy said:


> I'd drag the brush down by the waters edge and light a fire. I'd probably take a day to burn it all over by the shore line... Its always easier to drag it down hill.



The lay of the land might appear sloped in the pics, but it's generally level down there; though far from "flat". There's also a 12 foot cliff that drops off from the back-end of that lot, down to the river. Can't burn there for several reasons; tall trees above,,, and 300 feet from the houses' hose-outlet. 

That river is well over a mile across, and winds can come up quickly. If that fire were to get away from me, I'd be screwed. Too risky.


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## KenJax Tree

This is entertaining to say the least


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## Marshy

A small controlled brush fire is very different from lighting all of it on fire at one time. A 5 gallon pail (or multiple) with water in it from the river would be your fire protection. Get a ~25' piece of rope with a carabiner on one end to clip the handle of the buckets, tire the other end around a tree, if you need water toss the pail in the rive and hoist up... Fill 2 or 3, 5 gal pails and light a fire and slowly feed the fire with brush. Throw some on and while your waiting for it to burn down keep dragging brush down to your spot and feeding the fire. You can keep a small stock pile 10' away from the fire, just keep moving it and feeding the fire... Ash wont be hot if it has to travel more than 70' to fall on those boats. I doubt you'd make enough airborn to reach them anyways. JMO


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## TheJollyLogger

Roger, it's an acre and a half.4 guys, a t650 with a grapple bucket, two cutters, and a bc 1500, done by noon. I've been doing this for twenty years.


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## Roger Dodger

Marshy said:


> A small controlled brush fire is very different from lighting all of it on fire at one time. A 5 gallon pail (or multiple) with water in it from the river would be your fire protection. Get a ~25' piece of rope with a carabiner on one end to clip the handle of the buckets, tire the other end around a tree, if you need water toss the pail in the rive and hoist up... Fill 2 or 3, 5 gal pails and light a fire and slowly feed the fire with brush. Throw some on and while your waiting for it to burn down keep dragging brush down to your spot and feeding the fire. You can keep a small stock pile 10' away from the fire, just keep moving it and feeding the fire... Ash wont be hot if it has to travel more than 70' to fall on those boats. I doubt you'd make enough airborn to reach them anyways. JMO



I'd only wish it were that simple Marshy. First off, that 10-12 foot cliff that drops off to the river, actually drops down to a flat area, and the river is another 8-15 feet away, depending on what area you're looking at. Also, the Environment Agency does not allow any brush clearing within 5 meters (18 feet) of the water. (for natural habitat/wild-life), so it's not a clear shot to the water.

I'm not worried about air-borne embers,,,, what I'd worry about is a re-kindled fire during the night, possibly resulting in a ground-fire when there's nobody there to report it. There's nobody living there right now, and I live 20 miles away. The "ground" is covered by a thick layer of dead vegetation that's been built up over the decades. (spongy/springy under-foot.) Soak it all you want, but a fire that's been burning for a few days gets mighty deep in smoldering ash; then along comes a good stiff breeze, and poof, it's re-ignited and back in business.

That said; the owner does not want to burn the brush, so that's simply not an option.


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## Roger Dodger

TheJollyLogger said:


> Roger, it's an acre and a half.4 guys, a t650 with a grapple bucket, two cutters, and a bc 1500, done by noon. I've been doing this for twenty years.



I hear ya JL, and I don't doubt for one second that you are 100% right.

My issue is, I don't have "*4-guys, a t650 with a grapple-bucket, two cutters, and a bc 1500*". Heck, I can't even get a return phone-call from the owners' cousin, to see if he'll come with his 4x4 to tow a 3" chipper out of there when it's done. There's always plenty of "available helpers" until it's time for them to actually show up. Bottom line; I betcha I'll be doing this alone.

A little "history"; the original land-owner (now deceased), had made a deal with a guy to get that land cleared a few years ago. He gave the guy a tractor and a chipper, on the condition that this guy comes back and clears the land. This guy is a cop by the way, and,,,, he never came back.


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## Roger Dodger

Well, it's a done deal. I signed the papers today for the Wallenstein BXMT 3213 chipper/shredder. I agonized for a few days over buying the 4" machine(38 HP BXMT4238), but given the fact that winters' just about here, I didn't want that machine sitting idle 'til next May. The 3213 will give me the access I need for this job, and this will give me a few months to think about whether I'll add a larger machine next Spring.

http://www.embmfg.com/forestry/chipper_shredder/BXMT-Models.aspx#bxmt3213


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## Zale

Jesus, are we still beating this dead horse? I'm glad you made a decision. Please don't post again until you're done. Be safe.


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## tidy

enjoy, wally


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## Roger Dodger

tidy said:


> enjoy, wally



Unfortunately, Wally's been cancelled. (for now anyway). Turns out that the 2.5% lease rate, was supposedly "a mistake", and that 2.5% was the "Multiplier ratio"(?????). The actual interest rate for the lease was going to be 13.09%, so I said "thanks, but no thanks".

I've placed a call directly to Wallenstein, to find out what's going on, but I know it was not their mistake; the mistake occurred at the leasing company, and they've since apologized.

I'm working on an alternative plan, but time is quickly running out. (It snowed here today)


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## BuckmasterStumpGrinding

You can buy a nice trailer for what you would spend on that chipper. Put in some extra effort dragging the brush to the trailer and you will have a piece of equipment that you need to have.


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## tidy

Roger Dodger said:


> Unfortunately, Wally's been cancelled.



My post was a play on words- I meant enjoy the chipping, ya Wally. The capacity of these machines is irrelevant, its the volume of material you plan to chip and feed manually that's the issue, better of just walking away IMO


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## Roger Dodger

tidy said:


> My post was a play on words- I meant enjoy the chipping, ya Wally. The capacity of these machines is irrelevant, its the volume of material you plan to chip and feed manually that's the issue, better of just walking away IMO



You're preaching to the "converted". I'd kill to own a $20.k 6" hydraulically-fed chipper, but that's simply not going to happen. As I said earlier, this job may be a one-shot deal for me, and, my "boss" has already nixed the idea of a large chipper. Now I may have a way around that issue, but that's not been agreed to.(yet). I'm working on a solution.

As far as my "getting into the business" is concerned, the first thing I have to do is assess the local market. (the competition), and the level at which I'd want to enter that market. There are already plenty of 6" units available locally, either through rental, or via contractors. If I'm going to invest in a chipper, I need to find a specific "niche-market", and given my present resources (no truck, no tractor, no hitch on the car), I'm thinking that "maybe,,,just maybe" there's a local market for a high-quality, but residential-class chipper/shredder; a machine that one person can move around his property with relative ease. That would be a pure gamble at this point, but given the $4k. price-point, it's a gamble I can easily afford, and one that I wouldn't mind taking. Basically, I'd be targeting only the smaller jobs that the big guys don't want to do, or, I'd provide a rental machine to home-owners who just won't rent a 6" chipper.(there's nothing available for rental, under 6")

So, once this particular job that I'm working on is done, I could either keep the machine for local rental, or, for my own use, or, I could simply resell it while it's still fully guaranteed. The price I was quoted by my local dealer, is already $500. lower than the price I was quoted at the largest dealer around, so I wouldn't be losing much on a resale.

Last week, when I started a local-market research, I spoke to the marina-owner next door, he told me he rented a 6" chipper last year, and it was operating for 6 days straight. (8 men clearing a new parking area for the marina). That said, they only chipped material of 3" or less, and the rest was kept for fire-wood. The other neighbor also did a property clean-up, and they too chipped only the smaller stuff, and kept the 3+ inch material for fire-wood. I've yet to talk to any of the local landscapers/grounds-keepers, who do only mowing, and residential property clean-ups.(leaves,branches, etc).

Nothing is written in stone at this point,,, I've only started considering the possibilities, but my gut tells me "start small, and work your way up".


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## Griff93

There's a reason there are no chippers smaller than 6" for rent locally....

Do yourself a favor and save your money. Forward material up the to the road and go rent a 6" chipper. By the time your done, you'll be begging for one larger than that.


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## Roger Dodger

Griff93 said:


> There's a reason there are no chippers smaller than 6" for rent locally....
> 
> Do yourself a favor and save your money. Forward material up the to the road and go rent a 6" chipper. By the time your done, you'll be begging for one larger than that.



I'm working on doing precisely that. If "the boss" accepts, I'll start hauling the wood out this week, and start stacking it next to where the 6" chipper would be parked.

Now, with that said, I'd be frikken amazed if there's not a niche-market for a smaller chipper like that 3" Wallenstein. I'd be willing to bet dollars-to-donuts that a market does exist, and that the machine would pay for itself in pretty short order. Two 1-day rentals per month would more than cover its' cost. The target market would be in-town residential properties, with fairly light Spring clean-ups, etc. (dead branches, shrubs, leaves, composting, mulching, etc) As it stands, these people can't rent anything smaller than a 6" chipper, because there's simply none available.

Today I spoke to another friend who has a 1 1/2 acre country property, and when I told him about this chipper, he said "put me down as your first customer". That's four possible jobs lined up, and I haven't even bought it yet.


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## TheJollyLogger

Dang it Rodger, we are trying to help you. Do not pay $4,000.00 for that POS. Have you watched Fargo? If he had a decent sized chipper he lwould have gotten away with it.


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## Roger Dodger

TheJollyLogger said:


> Dang it Rodger, we are trying to help you. Do not pay $4,000.00 for that POS. Have you watched Fargo? If he had a decent sized chipper he lwould have gotten away with it.


 Good one!!!  

OK, let's get back to reality for a minute. I'm not arguing that a 3" gravity-fed chipper is "better" than a larger hydraulic-fed chipper,,,, that's a given. What I've been trying to do all along here, is to get an unbiased review of the various 3" g/fed chipper/shredders, and after considerable research, nothing seems to touch the Wallenstein BXMT 3213 unit. I don't think you can compare it to a 3" BearCat (and similar units), because it's an entirely different class of machine. The rotor weighs 3 times as much (70 lbs vs 25 lbs.), and the diameter of the rotor is 17.5" vs 12" (higher tip-speed). It has a 360 degree ejection chute, vs fixed side ejection, and it has a blower. It's mounted on a bonafide highway-towable trailer, and the 27-knife shredder handles 1" material (vs 3/4" or less).

The gravity-feed system actually seems to work on this machine, and that probably due to several factors; properly sized chute, proper chute angle, and much larger 6"x3" throat, vs 3x3 on the BearCat (and many others in this 3" class). The shredder appears to be particularly aggressive, and in any of the videos I've seen, it seems to vaporize anything you throw into it.

Pricewise, it generally retails for three times what the BearCat does, and I believe ChippersDirect.com is asking $5,395. U.S. for this unit. Here in Canada, where it's manufactured, it's typically $1k. less, and my local dealers' price is even better ($4,100. CDN, or $3,660 U.S.).

Now, I understand that an arborist has very different needs compared to a typical home-owner who's simply looking to cleanup his property once or twice a year(dead branches, leaves, etc). I'm just trying to determine if there's a viable market for this class of machine, and given the reaction of several potential customers that I've talked to, I firmly believe there is. If the machine pays for itself, what's the mystery? And, on those occasions where I'd need a 6" chipper, I'd simply rent one. Seems like a foregone conclusion at this point, and none of the rental places in my area, are serving this level of customer. A perfect niche-market, with zero competition.


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## fearofpavement

I have a 12" chuck and duck Altec "whisper chipper" and a smaller 3" TroyBilt chipper shredder. That said, for this job, I would figure out a way to burn it. Burning is faster than chipping and the option I use for getting rid of brush whenever it's an option. (we can only burn part of the year here)
It does not take a large fire to consume brush faster than you can bring it and toss it on. Just last week I had a brush fire going and myself and two teenage helpers were hauling brush and cut up pine logs and tossing them on and not gaining. I would think there would have to be a way to burn the brush without lighting the ground on fire. Even if it required making a platform out of cap blocks or something.
The Troybilt chipper is about 150 lbs but moving it on uneven terrain is not easy. Do not underestimate the amount of effort it will take to move a 400 lb machine once it's off pavement. Once you get this job completed, go back and read this thread. A lot of it will make sense to you then.


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## tidy

Hi Roger,

I did reply earlier the other day but the post didn't upload. Sure thing you may be able to operate in a little niche homeowner market but that doesn't mean you can try to chip those brush piles you speak of without any regrets. Its all about volume.

Chris


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## blades

Roger a 5 or 6" throat capacity means not having to trim branches down to bare sticks. Believe me that eats time faster than sitting in front of this here box. I played the game with smaller units, intake wise even my 5" bearcat is a bit small. Another thing there is no substitute for pure hp in this game even with a heavier disc. Leasing Companies are great at the bait and switch tactics regarding interest rates- Heck even the banks are bad on conventional loans. Always having some story why they are 4-8 times the prime rate or have such ridiculous up front fees combined with a lower rate comes out the same.


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## Roger Dodger

blades said:


> Roger a 5 or 6" throat capacity means not having to trim branches down to bare sticks. Believe me that eats time faster than sitting in front of this here box. I played the game with smaller units, intake wise even my 5" bearcat is a bit small. Another thing there is no substitute for pure hp in this game even with a heavier disc. Leasing Companies are great at the bait and switch tactics regarding interest rates- Heck even the banks are bad on conventional loans. Always having some story why they are 4-8 times the prime rate or have such ridiculous up front fees combined with a lower rate comes out the same.



Well, right now I'm "up the creek without a paddle",,,,, and it looks like we'll be waiting for Spring before we can deal with the brush. I can't find a hitch for my car. This is my fifth Acura RL(previously called Acura Legend) in a row, and I've never had problems getting one before, other than having to wait for a few weeks. (special order only). I've called all the local trailer-fabricator places, Canadian-Tire, Acura,,,, and nobody's making a hitch for that car, so now I'm looking for a truck, and I'm suffering from sticker-shock. What the heck has happened to the used pick-up truck market???? A few years back, you couldn't give away a pick-up truck, and now, the prices are sky-high.

Regarding "interest rates", my bank treats me pretty good. I set up a personal line of credit a few years back, and the current variable-rate is 7.4%, with no other fees of any kind. I can access cash whenever I need it, and structure payments any way I like, and I never have to go to the bank to apply for a loan. Very convenient. Also, home-equity loans are dirt cheap. (mortgage rate(2.9%) +1%).

Regarding 3"x6" throat-size on that Wallenstein BXMT 3213,,, since that machine is a chipper-shredder,,, as soon as the tree trunk stops self-feeding in the chipping chute, you simply lift the top of the tree and throw it in the shredder, and it's vaporized.

Another thing about these "mostly less than 2" Sumacs" that I'm doing, is that as soon as you cut them down, the branches start to go completely limp. The branches are green and very soft,,,, more like a grass than a woody branch. A quick flick of the wrist, and they snap off the trunk.

Regarding trucks, I'm currently looking for a 4x4 Toyota Tundra or Tacoma, but I'm only kicking that idea around at this stage. I've found a fully-loaded 2011 6 cyl. Tacoma crew-cab TRD with only 20k miles on it. Nice truck, but I'd have a hard time parting with my car.


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## Roger Dodger

tidy said:


> Hi Roger,
> 
> I did reply earlier the other day but the post didn't upload. Sure thing you may be able to operate in a little niche homeowner market but that doesn't mean you can try to chip those brush piles you speak of without any regrets. Its all about volume.
> 
> Chris



Yes, I understand that. The good thing about this particular job is, there's no rush. This is not like having a regular job to do, where you get in and get out as quickly as possible, and move on to the next client. Basically, I'm the grounds-keeper for this one property, and I don't do any other jobs for anyone else. I go there and mow the lawn every ten days or so, and do the brush clearing bit by bit. There's no rush whatsoever. The only goal with this particular property, is to keep the yard well maintained, so it appears lived-in. The house has been empty for the last 4 months.

I've been retired for a number of years, and I'm doing this job as a favor for the family, some of whom I've known for 60 years.


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## blades

Truck prices started climbing back in the late 90's add in the state side cash for clunkers program and about 1/2 of the used market was trashed out.
My 99's were not too bad yet, the 06 hurt and its just insane as far as a new truck is going for now, and there in lies the problem for the used market. Anything you get a hankering for in the used market get your bank to give you the loan value- they will ***** but be persistent. What you generally find is dealers asking double the loan value. Forget about Kelly blue book, I don't know who pays for that but it is way off base. I am not a fan of the Blundra ( intentional miss-spelling) and I am not getting into the lip wars on the others. Nothing out there is immune from the global epidemic of make as "cheap as possible for max profit- hang the consumer" rationalization.
I been using ford trucks since the 60's. Ya, I slipped off the bar stool once for about 2 years, that ain't going to happen again.


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## Roger Dodger

blades said:


> Truck prices started climbing back in the late 90's add in the state side cash for clunkers program and about 1/2 of the used market was trashed out.
> My 99's were not too bad yet, the 06 hurt and its just insane as far as a new truck is going for now, and there in lies the problem for the used market. Anything you get a hankering for in the used market get your bank to give you the loan value- they will ***** but be persistent. What you generally find is dealers asking double the loan value. Forget about Kelly blue book, I don't know who pays for that but it is way off base. I am not a fan of the Blundra ( intentional miss-spelling) and I am not getting into the lip wars on the others. Nothing out there is immune from the global epidemic of make as "cheap as possible for max profit- hang the consumer" rationalization.
> I been using ford trucks since the 60's. Ya, I slipped off the bar stool once for about 2 years, that ain't going to happen again.



One of the things that surprised about the "used" truck market, was the high prices of models which had historically fetched low re-sale prices. When I look at the small independent dealers, they're asking sky-high prices for trucks that have very high mileage,,, need tires,,, high-rate financing, etc. When I look for private sales, I find they're almost non-existent in my area. I guess a lot of folks must lease, then return those vehicles to the dealers.

The only low-rate financing available here, is dealer financing. (Toyota, 0.9 new, or 2.99 used). At those rates, it's almost crazy not to buy new, because with new, you have no additional costs,,,,everything's new, no repairs, no worn out parts, and mostly everything's covered by warranty. For the first few years anyway, that relatively low monthly payment sounds pretty good, but I'd imagine that after a few years, you'd get pretty fed-up with those payments.

I'll keep looking, but I gotta tell ya, I was looking at a very attractive and fully loaded 2015 4x4 v-6 Tacoma double-cab today. and it's mighty tempting. I'm just not sure that I'd enjoy switching from a car to a truck.


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## greg storms

By now, the pile has rotted! Happy new year!


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