# Sad.



## deeker

Last night we had to kill a bear in the campground. Children and adults were throwing rocks to scare it. The bear advanced toward the armed camp host. Bear lost. About a 150lb male.

We also have a sow and cub in the area. The campground closes monday morning. Road construction. Hopefully she and the cub will leave the area before more problems.

UTAH COUNTY - A black bear was shot and killed after wandering into a campsite in Hobble Creek Canyon Friday night. And it wasn't the first time the bear had visited the campgrounds. Campers say that the bear kept returning, walking towards groups of people. That's when the campground host decided to shoot. "When he's not responding to humans and wanting to get away from humans that's not a good behavior," says Shawn Bagley, conservation officer.


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## CaseyForrest

So people go out to camp, in the woods, and when a resident of the woods shows up, the answer is to kill it?

When we go camping...if something happens along that we cant shoe away, we pack up and move. I would never for the life of me consider killing something so I could stay at a campsite.


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## Nailsbeats

Yup, had to bring him down. Did the right thing. When animals stop respecting humans you have to finish them. No need to feel bad, bears don't give 2 craps about you and there's plenty more where he came from.


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## deeker

The devil is in the details. The bear had broken into several coolers, and a tent. We had groups with small children, the bear was chased away a couple of times that day. It was aggressive and had no fear of the people yelling at it or throwing rocks. 99% of the time, the bear will leave when it sees or smells people. This bear had been in the area for a couple of weeks. Berries, small game and fish in the area. It wanted to eat people food. Or people. We had an aggressive bear in '07 that killed and ate a 11yr old boy.

It had been chased off twice. The bear pulled the boy from a tent, and ate him fairly close to the campsite. The bear was killed a bit too late.

Better for us to lose one bear...than.....


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## clearance

CaseyForrest said:


> So people go out to camp, in the woods, and when a resident of the woods shows up, the answer is to kill it?
> 
> When we go camping...if something happens along that we cant shoe away, we pack up and move. I would never for the life of me consider killing something so I could stay at a campsite.



You have no idea how fast a bear can move, as fast as a horse for a short while, no bs. When they show no fear of humans, in a well travelled area, they have to go. Plenty of black bears out there.


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## tomtrees58

man the wild west:jawdrop: tom trees


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## Nailsbeats

deeker said:


> The devil is in the details. The bear had broken into several coolers, and a tent. We had groups with small children, the bear was chased away a couple of times that day. It was aggressive and had no fear of the people yelling at it or throwing rocks. 99% of the time, the bear will leave when it sees or smells people. This bear had been in the area for a couple of weeks. Berries, small game and fish in the area. It wanted to eat people food. Or people. We had an aggressive bear in '07 that killed and ate a 12yr old boy.
> 
> It had been chased off twice. The bear pulled the boy from a tent, and ate him fairly close to the campsite. The bear was killed a bit too late.
> 
> Better for us to lose one bear...than.....



Right on. I lost a Whitetail bowkill to the meat hungry black bears around my house, they are going down when I get my tag. I don't hunt without a pistol for self defense either. Mine and the neighbors properties house some of the biggest, meat hungry bears around and we have footage to prove it.


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## Happyjack

deeker said:


> Last night we had to kill a bear in the campground. Children and adults were throwing rocks to scare it. The bear advanced toward the armed camp host. Bear lost. About a 150lb male.
> 
> We also have a sow and cub in the area. The campground closes monday morning. Road construction. Hopefully she and the cub will leave the area before more problems.
> 
> UTAH COUNTY - A black bear was shot and killed after wandering into a campsite in Hobble Creek Canyon Friday night. And it wasn't the first time the bear had visited the campgrounds. Campers say that the bear kept returning, walking towards groups of people. That's when the campground host decided to shoot. "When he's not responding to humans and wanting to get away from humans that's not a good behavior," says Shawn Bagley, conservation officer.





What did you shoot the Bear with? 12ga slug?


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## deeker

I don't want this again.

Utah Boy Killed by Bear While Camping
By PAUL FOY, Associated Press Writer

Monday, June 18, 2007

(06-18) 18:48 PDT American Fork, Utah (AP) -- 


An 11-year-old boy was dragged screaming from his family's tent and killed by a black bear during a Father's Day outing in the Utah wilderness.


The boy, his mother, stepfather and a 6-year-old brother were sleeping in a large tent Sunday night in American Fork Canyon, about 30 miles southeast of Salt Lake City, when the stepfather heard the boy scream "something's dragging me."


The boy and his sleeping bag were gone. The cut in the nylon tent was so clean, his family, who was not identified, first believed the boy had been abducted, U.S Forest Service officers said.


Wearing flip-flops and without a flashlight, the stepfather searched frantically for the boy and then drove a mile down a dirt road to a developed campground.


"He was pounding on my trailer door. He said somebody cut his tent and took his son," said John Sheely, host of the Timpooneke campground, who alerted authorities by driving down the canyon to a pay phone.


The boy's body was found about 400 yards away from the campsite, said Lt. Dennis Harris of the Utah County sheriff's office.


Wildlife officers led by hound dogs killed the bear Monday. After the bear was shot, an examination of the remains confirmed that it was the killer, the Utah Division of Wildlife Resources said.


"Truly a tragic event, said Jim Karpowitz, director of the agency. "Events of this type are extremely rare in Utah."


He declined to say how the confirmation was made "out of respect for the family."


Authorities said the bear, as much as 300 pounds, probably was the same one harassing another group of campers in the same spot before dawn Sunday. Kurt Francom said his son, Jake, was kicked in the head through a tent wall.


"It could have been my boy," said Francom, a school custodian.


Wildlife officers used 26 dogs to track the bear's scent, shooting and wounding him. The creature wandered around wounded until officers shot and killed him several hours later, said Lt. Scott White of the state wildlife agency.


Authorities said the death was Utah's first fatal attack on a human by a black bear. It follows reports of several bear sightings during spring and occurred just hours after other people in the same primitive campsite likely encountered the same animal.


The attack occurred in American Fork Canyon, a popular camping destination with elevations as high as 11,000 feet.


"When it's hot and dry like this, bears are short of food," Karpowitz said.


In May, officials reported black bears in Provo Canyon and Park City, including one that ripped through a screen door at a cabin where residents had burned food and opened windows.


Officers killed that bear because it showed no fear when biologists tried to scare it away with firecrackers, the wildlife agency said.


In July 2006, a black bear bit the arm of a 14-year-old Boy Scout while he slept in a tent, also in Utah County. The female bear returned to the campground and was killed.


Black bears, which are found in 27 states, are "generally less aggressive than other bears and don't prey on humans," said Stewart Breck, a wildlife biologist with the U.S. Department of Agriculture in Fort Collins, Colo.


The typical human-bear conflicts involve bears breaking into homes or cars.


"But it's not breaking into a tent and killing," Breck said.


___


Associated Press writer Jennifer Dobner in Salt Lake City contributed to this report.


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## deeker

Happyjack said:


> What did you shoot the Bear with? 12ga slug?



The camp host was the one who shot it. A 12ga 00Buck.


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## Nailsbeats

deeker said:


> The camp host was the one who shot it. A 12ga 00Buck.



I would have prefered a .308 180 grain soft point or a .44 mag pistol, but that'll do.


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## Brushwacker

deeker said:


> The devil is in the details. The bear had broken into several coolers, and a tent. We had groups with small children, the bear was chased away a couple of times that day. It was aggressive and had no fear of the people yelling at it or throwing rocks. 99% of the time, the bear will leave when it sees or smells people. This bear had been in the area for a couple of weeks. Berries, small game and fish in the area. It wanted to eat people food. Or people. We had an aggressive bear in '07 that killed and ate a 12yr old boy.
> 
> It had been chased off twice. The bear pulled the boy from a tent, and ate him fairly close to the campsite. The bear was killed a bit too late.
> 
> Better for us to lose one bear...than.....



To bad every body doesn't feel the same. To many show more for the animals and do not give a rat for people that live outside. A population of bears, or most any wild animal for that matter that fears humans can co exist with each other with little problems. When wild animals loose fear of humans they will dominate if we let them.


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## CaseyForrest

Dont get me wrong. Im not a PETA worshiping nutcase...

But if people were close enough to throw rocks at it....and there long enough to do so, they also had time to vacate the area and take anyone they loved with them.

No, they choose to kill the bear so they could "camp."

Its one thing if a wild animal is coming at you and you have no choice.....standing there close enough and long enough to chuck rocks at it makes you a candidate for the Darwin Award.


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## CaseyForrest

deeker said:


> The devil is in the details. The bear had broken into several coolers, and a tent. We had groups with small children, the bear was chased away a couple of times that day. It was aggressive and had no fear of the people yelling at it or throwing rocks. 99% of the time, the bear will leave when it sees or smells people. This bear had been in the area for a couple of weeks. Berries, small game and fish in the area. It wanted to eat people food. Or people. We had an aggressive bear in '07 that killed and ate a 11yr old boy.
> 
> It had been chased off twice. The bear pulled the boy from a tent, and ate him fairly close to the campsite. The bear was killed a bit too late.
> 
> Better for us to lose one bear...than.....



Then those people were never taught how to store food outdoors when the threat of bears is present.

Its not the bears fault...but the bear paid the price.


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## deeker

CaseyForrest said:


> Then those people were never taught how to store food outdoors when the threat of bears is present.
> 
> Its not the bears fault...but the bear paid the price.



It was entirely the bears fault. Plenty of food sources. It was not hungry either. As in starving...it was healthy and strong for its age. A very wet spring...lots of berries...grasses....and small game.

Why should people vacate a paid for campsite, a reunion which people came from several states to attend....for a bear that should not be there????

I would have shot the bear. And slept like a baby.

Beats the hell out of looking for a dead, partially eaten boy again. Want to debate that one????? That bear was a healthy well fed bear too. And about a hunderd pounds bigger.


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## deeker

In all fairness. I would have shot the bear. 

Remember the old show Grizzly Adams???? My late uncle raised and trained most of the animals, aside from the grizzly bears. 

As a young kid I got to handle more types of wild and non wild animals than most could imagine. Got to bottle feed orphaned cougars, bears, coyotes, bobcats and even a couple of badgers. As well as a few mule deer fawns. 

Wolves I don't like, and to this day I can get wild skunks to eat from my hands. Usually in developed campgrounds at night. I don't frighten or corner them, and they are not aggressive. Works to trap them and re-locate them. Raccoons, on the other hand. Are dead on sight with me. I am a hunter and make no apologies for being one.


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## CaseyForrest

deeker said:


> It was entirely the bears fault. Plenty of food sources. It was not hungry either. As in starving...it was healthy and strong for its age. A very wet spring...lots of berries...grasses....and small game.



Than that further supports my theory that people who camp there aren't properly taught how to store food. If the bear didn't seem hungry, the only reason it would be around is its familiarity with the area. Knowing it can get food. Not afraid of people and it "learned" people dont know how to properly bear proof their food supplies.



deeker said:


> Why should people vacate a paid for campsite, a reunion which people came from several states to attend....for a bear that should not be there????



Ahh..because the bear will kill you. Eat you and fertilize its berry bushes with what makes it through its digestive tract?

A bear that should not be there? The bear _*lives*_ outdoors. People pretend to live outdoors occasionally and we call it camping. Humans will buy up some land, throw up a sign and charge people to camp there. Nary a thought to the natural inhabitants of the land and when they become a nuisance, humans eliminate it so they can continue on. Its asinine.



deeker said:


> I would have shot the bear. And slept like a baby.



I would have found a different campsite. And had a word or two with the people running it about why they arent properly instructing people on bear proofing their food. Bear proofing their garbage, etc.



deeker said:


> Beats the hell out of looking for a dead, partially eaten boy again. Want to debate that one????? That bear was a healthy well fed bear too. And about a hunderd pounds bigger.



Im not arguing that. Its terrible to hear about people dying when wild animals attack. But the initial story didnt indicate the bear wallowed out of no where and went on a rampage. People had time to throw rocks at it. Close enough to do so. Do you think that pissed the bear off and thats why it charged?


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## Brushwacker

CaseyForrest said:


> Dont get me wrong. Im not a PETA worshiping nutcase...
> 
> But if people were close enough to throw rocks at it....and there long enough to do so, they also had time to vacate the area and take anyone they loved with them.
> 
> No, they choose to kill the bear so they could "camp."
> 
> Its one thing if a wild animal is coming at you and you have no choice.....standing there close enough and long enough to chuck rocks at it makes you a candidate for the Darwin Award.



It makes better sense to do something about the bear and let the people have a campground. Most likely the bear will encounter humans again, could reproduce and likely some of its offspring would inherit and or learn the same traits, when this bear gets old it would be more likely hurt or kill a person for food. Plenty of room for bears outside the campground, they just need to have enough fear not to approach humans and most of them will if we cull out the ones that don't, and the other bears can pass their trait to their next generation.
You bet throw rocks at it, run away from a black bear and a good chance it will mistake you for prey. Hurt the bear and mabe he will learn to avoid humans and survive himself without needing killed.


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## CaseyForrest

Brushwacker said:


> It makes better sense to do something about the bear and let the people have a campground. Most likely the bear will encounter humans again, could reproduce and likely some of its offspring would inherit and or learn the same traits, when this bear gets old it would be more likely hurt or kill a person for food. Plenty of room for bears outside the campground, they just need to have enough fear not to approach humans and most of them will if we cull out the ones that don't, and the other bears can pass their trait to their next generation.
> You bet throw rocks at it, run away from a black bear and a good chance it will mistake you for prey. Hurt the bear and mabe he will learn to avoid humans and survive himself without needing killed.



Ummm....teach people how to store their food and trash. The bears only hang around cause they know they can get food. Eventually they become fearless of humans cause they know they can get food. They become lazy and stop looking for food because they know where they can get it, easily. Then, when they get hungry, they get aggressive, and know where they can get food.

People, if they are going to assume the responsibility of sleeping outdoors, need to educate themselves on the habits of animals they may encounter. People that go to these fly by night, pay as you go campgrounds, I can assure you don't have a clue as to the proper procedures for animal proofing their supplies and garbage. Then, when a bear does happen around, its the bears fault and the bear must be put down...

Why not just sue the bear for trespassing?

The bear has more rights to the outdoors than you and I.


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## Nailsbeats

CaseyForrest said:


> Ummm....teach people how to store their food and trash. The bears only hang around cause they know they can get food. Eventually they become fearless of humans cause they know they can get food. They become lazy and stop looking for food because they know where they can get it, easily. Then, when they get hungry, they get aggressive, and know where they can get food.
> 
> People, if they are going to assume the responsibility of sleeping outdoors, need to educate themselves on the habits of animals they may encounter. People that go to these fly by night, pay as you go campgrounds, I can assure you don't have a clue as to the proper procedures for animal proofing their supplies and garbage. Then, when a bear does happen around, its the bears fault and the bear must be put down...
> 
> Why not just sue the bear for trespassing?
> 
> The bear has more rights to the outdoors than you and I.



The bear has a right to face a man like any other predator, bear lost this one.


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## CaseyForrest

Nailsbeats said:


> The bear has a right to face a man like any other predator, bear lost this one.



LOL!

Give the bear a gun. Lets make it a fair fight.


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## deeker

The people had been good about keeping all of their food put away. As they were told on arrival. Oh, it is a fairly inhabited area....people live in the area. The bears usually avoid this area....this one did not. We believe the sow and cub are following the berries as they ripen.

The video shows a table (after the fact) set up by the USFS to demonstrate what not to do. 

You run from snakes and spiders???? I don't. Nor would I expect small children to. 

Another point...kill any mosquito's????

We have huge trash bins....hauled in on drop off/on trucks. Steel and bear proof.


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## Nailsbeats

CaseyForrest said:


> LOL!
> 
> Give the bear a gun. Lets make it a fair fight.



Keep laughing, I'm reloading.


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## deeker

CaseyForrest said:


> LOL!
> 
> Give the bear a gun. Lets make it a fair fight.



Get that one from peta????


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## clearance

Second amendment-the right to arm bears.


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## deeker

CaseyForrest said:


> Ummm....teach people how to store their food and trash. The bears only hang around cause they know they can get food. Eventually they become fearless of humans cause they know they can get food. They become lazy and stop looking for food because they know where they can get it, easily. Then, when they get hungry, they get aggressive, and know where they can get food.
> 
> People, if they are going to assume the responsibility of sleeping outdoors, need to educate themselves on the habits of animals they may encounter. People that go to these fly by night, pay as you go campgrounds, I can assure you don't have a clue as to the proper procedures for animal proofing their supplies and garbage. Then, when a bear does happen around, its the bears fault and the bear must be put down...
> 
> Why not just sue the bear for trespassing?
> 
> The bear has more rights to the outdoors than you and I.



Casey, maybe it would be best for you to stay home. 

I would protect my family, first. I know you would....but your sounding like peta now.




Wow.


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## ShoerFast

It is what it is, and that's that. the way I see it.

This is not about convenience in a campground, bears rights vs campers. 

This is about an animal that was not acting right, something wrong with it, it happens. 

150# male would make an easy target if he wandered into a larger boar-bears territory as the larger would easily kill it, or mortally wound it. Maybe why this bear moved into populated areas?

This is a bear that gave up on nature and chose the easy route, once that happens there usually destroyed. As tagging and relocating is just asking for a lawsuit if the bear dose do damage. destroyed property or harms someone again latter in his new zip-code. 

Sad is a word, but the bear had to go. I hear that a pattern loaded shotgun with a slug - buckshot - slug - buckshot, repeat is the accepted method.


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## CaseyForrest

deeker said:


> The people had been good about keeping all of their food put away. As they were told on arrival. Oh, it is a fairly inhabited area....people live in the area. The bears usually avoid this area....this one did not. We believe the sow and cub are following the berries as they ripen.
> 
> The video shows a table (after the fact) set up by the USFS to demonstrate what not to do.
> 
> You run from snakes and spiders???? I don't. Nor would I expect small children to.
> 
> Another point...kill any mosquito's????
> 
> We have huge trash bins....hauled in on drop off/on trucks. Steel and bear proof.



Evidently not...cause the bear was coming around. Not saying your group was to blame...but the bear obviously learned at some point it could get food there. By nauture...bears are generally afraid of humans. You said it looked as if it was healthy, i.e. getting plenty of food. So why then would it wander into a campground full of people?

My only point was...if the campers had time to throw rocks, they had time to vacate. If, when people started to vacate, the bear approached, then by all means agressive force is warranted.

Snakes, spiders and mosquitos? Generally I dont kill mosquitos...Spiders take care of other bothersome insects so I leave them alone and we dont have to worry to much about snakes here in MI. We do have bears though...and when I go out camping, I educate myself on bear activity wherever Im am and if activity is high...I move on.

Huge trash bins dont help little Jonnies reeses cup wrapper tucked under his sleeping bag. Not little Jonnies fault....


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## CaseyForrest

deeker said:


> Get that one from peta????



It was in response to idiocrisy.

"Bear has a right to face man like any other predator."


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## CaseyForrest

deeker said:


> Casey, maybe it would be best for you to stay home.
> 
> I would protect my family, first. I know you would....but your sounding like peta now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow.



As I would mine....by not willingly putting them in harms way by standing close enough to something that will attack me and eat me, to throw rocks at it.

I already said Im not a PETA fanatic...but bears have just as much right to the outdoors, if not more, than humans. We can not invade their living space and assume we have the right to not be bothered.

Im sure you guys did what you thought was right...and Ive no issue with that. I find it said that man feels the need to get back to his roots by sleeping under the stars and eliminating any threats to him doing so.

Killing wildlife just so people can continue to go on family camping trips is stupid. Why not a tranq gun and relocate? The people said this bear had been around before...


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## clearance

CaseyForrest said:


> Evidently not...cause the bear was coming around. Not saying your group was to blame...but the bear obviously learned at some point it could get food there. By nauture...bears are generally afraid of humans. You said it looked as if it was healthy, i.e. getting plenty of food. So why then would it wander into a campground full of people?
> 
> My only point was...if the campers had time to throw rocks, they had time to vacate. If, when people started to vacate, the bear approached, then by all means agressive force is warranted.
> 
> Snakes, spiders and mosquitos? Generally I dont kill mosquitos...Spiders take care of other bothersome insects so I leave them alone and we dont have to worry to much about snakes here in MI. We do have bears though...and when I go out camping, I educate myself on bear activity wherever Im am and if activity is high...I move on.
> 
> Huge trash bins dont help little Jonnies reeses cup wrapper tucked under his sleeping bag. Not little Jonnies fault....



Casey, I have to ask, how many bear experiences have you had, and have you ever been in a position where you were afraid, realizing that if the bear chose to, you would be in the fight of your life? I have been there, a few times, it ain't fun. This bear had to go, no doubt about it, at all, I wish you could see that.


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## CaseyForrest

ShoerFast said:


> It is what it is, and that's that. the way I see it.
> 
> This is not about convenience in a campground, bears rights vs campers.
> 
> This is about an animal that was not acting right, something wrong with it, it happens.
> 
> 150# male would make an easy target if he wandered into a larger boar-bears territory as the larger would easily kill it, or mortally wound it. Maybe why this bear moved into populated areas?
> 
> This is a bear that gave up on nature and chose the easy route, once that happens there usually destroyed. As tagging and relocating is just asking for a lawsuit if the bear dose do damage. destroyed property or harms someone again latter in his new zip-code.
> 
> Sad is a word, but the bear had to go. I hear that a pattern loaded shotgun with a slug - buckshot - slug - buckshot, repeat is the accepted method.



No mention of the bear "not acting right."

People were throwing rocks at it...what would you do?

Does the bear have any idea about "property lines?" "Illegal Tresspass?"


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## CaseyForrest

clearance said:


> Casey, I have to ask, how many bear experiences have you had, and have you ever been in a position where you were afraid, realizing that if the bear chose to, you would be in the fight of your life? I have been there, a few times, it ain't fun. This bear had to go, no doubt about it, at all, I wish you could see that.



Nope. I have seen them..but they were never close enough to be an issue.

I have spent many nites in what most would call wilderness camping. Not even primitive campsites... The Appalachian Trail in MD, PA. The lower and Upper Penninsula in MI. Crestted Butte, CO. We always bear proofed our campsites.

Im not saying its not neccessary to use lethal force...Im saying its not neccessary to always kill the animal. The animal is not always in the wrong. Humans invade wild animals "habitats" all the time and the answer to the wild animals venturing into what humans have claimed is to put the animals down.

Its asinine.


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## ropensaddle

CaseyForrest said:


> LOL!
> 
> Give the bear a gun. Lets make it a fair fight.



Tell you what your on your way to a peta nut imo. The biggest problem with wild animals is if
they are not hunted they learn to not fear human contact. I ask how many bears have you encountered in the wild? I have came up on around 15 two of such being in the 600 lb range.


I am going to attempt to show you difference's I have witnessed. Of the bear contacts I have made 3 of them were in areas where hunting them is allowed, these bears when I came up on them shagged booty one half second and they were gone. The other bears were in white river refuge a place where Daniel Boone and Davy Crockett frequently hunted on the Mississippi delta. I deer hunt there but they don't allow bear hunting and those bears are dangerous in the fact that they do not fear and are starting to be over abundant. I have been bluff charged thank God and had one follow me out at dark I no longer hunt there after having a 600 plus bear run to withing 40 yards of me and huff and raise his hair pop his teeth and be a nuisance. I would hunt there but not alone again as I would hate to be wounded and left in the bush with them. I hollered and shook my bow at this bear and lucky for the both of us he finally decided I was not worth the effort as I was knocking an arrow. Bears need to be hunted to keep numbers down and to instill a healthy respect of humans imho.


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## CaseyForrest

ropensaddle said:


> Tell you what your on your way to a peta nut imo. The biggest problem with wild animals is if
> they are not hunted they learn to not fear human contact. I ask how many bears have you encountered in the wild? I have came up on around 15 two of such being in the 600 lb range.
> 
> 
> I am going to attempt to show you difference's I have witnessed. Of the bear contacts I have made 3 of them were in areas where hunting them is allowed, these bears when I came up on them shagged booty one half second and they were gone. The other bears were in white river refuge a place where Daniel Boone and Davy Crockett frequently hunted on the Mississippi delta. I deer hunt there but they don't allow bear hunting and those bears are dangerous in the fact that they do not fear and are starting to be over abundant. I have been bluff charged thank God and had one follow me out at dark I no longer hunt there after having a 600 plus bear run to withing 40 yards of me and huff and raise his hair pop his teeth and be a nuisance. I would hunt there but not alone again as I would hate to be wounded and left in the bush with them. I hollered and shook my bow at this bear and lucky for the both of us he finally decided I was not worth the effort as I was knocking an arrow. Bears need to be hunted to keep numbers down and to instill a healthy respect of humans imho.



With all due respect rope...

You go out in the woods....youd better be prepared to come in contact with something youd rather not.

Its like If I came into your house, uninvited...what would you do?

Trying to make the case that man must kill animals in self defense when man willingly enters the domain of animals that can do you harm doesnt make sense.


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## CaseyForrest

We dont have carte blance to run rampant in the wilderness killing everything that scares us.

Nature has kept the balance of bears and food for quite sometime. How important we must think ourselves that _we_ need to control the bear population so _we_ can go deer hunting.

Maybe the bears pissed youre shooting his dear.


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## deeker

CaseyForrest said:


> We dont have carte blance to run rampant in the wilderness killing everything that scares us.
> 
> Nature has kept the balance of bears and food for quite sometime. How important we must think ourselves that _we_ need to control the bear population so _we_ can go deer hunting.
> 
> Maybe the bears pissed youre shooting his dear.



Funny, I shoot deer. Ooops.


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## deeker

Casey, should we have killed the bear that killed and ate the 11yr old boy in American fork canyon???

After all...it was doing what comes naturally.


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## clearance

ropensaddle said:


> Bears need to be hunted to keep numbers down and to instill a healthy respect of humans imho.



Yes.


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## ropensaddle

CaseyForrest said:


> With all due respect rope...
> 
> You go out in the woods....youd better be prepared to come in contact with something youd rather not.
> 
> Its like If I came into your house, uninvited...what would you do?
> 
> Trying to make the case that man must kill animals in self defense when man willingly enters the domain of animals that can do you harm doesnt make sense.



I would not kill just to kill which is what I think you are saying, if so, I agree. I still say their numbers need controlled by harvest and hunting is a great solution. Overpopulation will cause all kinds of human animal conflict problems as well as food depletion issues which will amplify these problems and cause disease etc. I ate bear once did not care for it greatly could eat it again but chose not to hunt because I don't really want the meat. I do want venison and wild Turkey so I concentrate my skills as an archer toward them and would most likely only kill a bear if it became a necessity.


----------



## Brushwacker

I believe in taking precautions to. Storing food and garbage properly. etc.. 
I do not believe animals have = or more rights then people. We can and should give them some space but we should have first choice without fear of animals overcoming us. My vote is get rid of bears that get in the way of human activity . Other wise more dead and hurt people. Its much less painful to see a bear dead. I for 1 am not clamming up indoors or in vehichles because a bear has more rights then me. I am an outdoorsman and have rights to. Traveling on foot long distances I don't want bears waking me up wanting to fight in the middle of the night nor do I want to worry about them approaching living quarters because they want to eat my dog's food or something. Humans 1st. where ever their lives take them. Bears that become a threat to human life are best eliminated.


----------



## CaseyForrest

deeker said:


> Casey, should we have killed the bear that killed and ate the 11yr old boy in American fork canyon???
> 
> After all...it was doing what comes naturally.



What is the point in killing the bear?

An eye for an eye? Does the bear know it just murdered someone? The bear doesnt know its not supposed to eat humans. The bear doesnt know its not at the top of the food chain.

To answer your question...no. The only reason for killing an animal that just mauled and killed an innocent person is revenge.

I know I sound like an eco freak...really, I do.

It just chaps my ass that humans think they have free reign over everything. The wild is just that, wild. Protect yourself if you need to, but youd better damn well prepare yourself for the worst. 

I enjoy nature..I enjoy the undisturbed areas of wilderness...and all the beauty and danger that goes along with it.

These are from last year. Trip to the northern tip of the UP of MI.












































I could show you come old school camping from the AT, but Id have to scan them in.

And funny thing deek...didnt see 1 bear. Interesting that they frequent fly by night camp grounds. 

Coincidence?


----------



## ropensaddle

Brushwacker said:


> I believe in taking precautions to. Storing food and garbage properly. etc..
> I do not believe animals have = or more rights then people. We can and should give them some space but we should have first choice without fear of animals overcoming us. My vote is get rid of bears that get in the way of human activity . Other wise more dead and hurt people. Its much less painful to see a bear dead. I for 1 am not clamming up indoors or in vehichles because a bear has more rights then me. I am an outdoorsman and have rights to. Traveling on foot long distances I don't want bears waking me up wanting to fight in the middle of the night nor do I want to worry about them approaching living quarters because they want to eat my dog's food or something. Humans 1st. where ever their lives take them. Bears that become a threat to human life are best eliminated.



Yes I agree 100% and add if they were hunted to keep balance and instill fear of humans which would be natural if they were ethically hunted with conservation in mind as well. Too many naturalist like peta spread ignorance and non truths thinking nature will balance the herd. This was true a long time ago when apex predators roamed the continent. Those days are gone in most areas so hunting can do the duty while also supplying healthy meat and I for one see nothing wrong with that it feels natural to me.


----------



## CaseyForrest

Heres what I consider a "campground"


----------



## CaseyForrest

ropensaddle said:


> I would not kill just to kill which is what I think you are saying, if so, I agree. I still say their numbers need controlled by harvest and hunting is a great solution. Overpopulation will cause all kinds of human animal conflict problems as well as food depletion issues which will amplify these problems and cause disease etc. I ate bear once did not care for it greatly could eat it again but chose not to hunt because I don't really want the meat. I do want venison and wild Turkey so I concentrate my skills as an archer toward them and would most likely only kill a bear if it became a necessity.



Hunting is one thing, and an entirely different thread altogether.

I commend you on taking the more difficult method of using a bow.


----------



## ropensaddle

CaseyForrest said:


> Hunting is one thing, and an entirely different thread altogether.
> 
> I commend you on taking the more difficult method of using a bow.



I found rifle too easy unless varmint hunting coyotes n such bow hunting allows me more time spent on the trail and I usually tag out still with 3 deer in October so just as effective.


----------



## CaseyForrest

Brushwacker said:


> I believe in taking precautions to. Storing food and garbage properly. etc..
> I do not believe animals have = or more rights then people. We can and should give them some space but we should have first choice without fear of animals overcoming us. My vote is get rid of bears that get in the way of human activity . Other wise more dead and hurt people. Its much less painful to see a bear dead. I for 1 am not clamming up indoors or in vehichles because a bear has more rights then me. I am an outdoorsman and have rights to. Traveling on foot long distances I don't want bears waking me up wanting to fight in the middle of the night nor do I want to worry about them approaching living quarters because they want to eat my dog's food or something. Humans 1st. where ever their lives take them. Bears that become a threat to human life are best eliminated.



I dont believe animals have more rights either....but I also dont believe humans have more rights. We all share a balance of rights the insure each of us survives.

Why stop at bears? Why not get rid of anything that hinders human activity? Not sticking up for PETA or HSUS, but imagine where the earth would be if folks with your mindset werent confronted by the eco freaks?

And since youre for getting rid of bears, cause ......



> Other wise more dead and hurt people



Gosh...lets get rid of snakes, too. OH...and some people are allergic to bees, so lets get rid of them. 

Outdoorsman have a responsibility to protect the wilderness. Not move everything out of their way to accomodate themselves. Ever hear of #### Proenneke? I wonder how he did it for 35 years....


----------



## CaseyForrest

ropensaddle said:


> I found rifle too easy unless varmint hunting coyotes n such bow hunting allows me more time spent on the trail and I usually tag out still with 3 deer in October so just as effective.


----------



## ropensaddle

CaseyForrest said:


> I dont believe animals have more rights either....but I also dont believe humans have more rights. We all share a balance of rights the insure each of us survives.
> 
> Why stop at bears? Why not get rid of anything that hinders human activity? Not sticking up for PETA or HSUS, but imagine where the earth would be if folks with your mindset werent confronted by the eco freaks?
> 
> And since youre for getting rid of bears, cause ......
> 
> 
> 
> Gosh...lets get rid of snakes, too. OH...and some people are allergic to bees, so lets get rid of them.
> 
> Outdoorsman have a responsibility to protect the wilderness. Not move everything out of their way to accomodate themselves. Ever hear of #### Proenneke? I wonder how he did it for 35 years....



I can agree here, outdoors men are why we have habitat left, our license fees have done more in 2 years than peta has since conception of their organization but please don't take my word on it. Theodore Roosevelt and outdoor sportsmen combined with game and fish and the wild turkey federation have set land aside for all our enjoyment and for that I am happy.


----------



## deeker

Casey, your completely off base here. 

A bear, or any predator that has killed and eaten a human will do so again.

Humans are slower than their usual prey animals. Easier to catch, as in stupid in the ways of the outdoor world.

A bear, or any predator that has killed and eaten a human will do so again.

A bear, or any predator that has killed and eaten a human will do so again.

A bear, or any predator that has killed and eaten a human will do so again.

From Indian tigers and lions, to African lions, leopard's and south American Jaguars, to North American Cougars, wolves and bears.

One leopard in India in the Rudraprayag region dined on at least 125 humans, over an 8 year period. The fun continued from 1918 to 1926.

I know, I know feed the predators. Not on my life or those around me.

As for snakes. I don't kill many rattlesnakes. But I have killed several over the years. Especially where there are children.

All blackwidow and brown recluse spiders.....only eat little bugs.....but they are dead on sight with me.

I certainly don't ascribe to the bleeding heart's that believe Disney animals talk to each other....go on picnics.

Because I live in the real world.

Perhaps you want us to surrender all of our homes, towns and all man has made to revert back to "the way it was". Here is a bit of hard FACT!!!!

There are more deer and other wildlife, except for the Bison (requires huge tracts of land to roam) than there was in the 1500's. Why? Man has built reservoirs that water the deserts and other arid regions.

Come out to Utah sometime. I would be happy to show you the real world.

Maybe play with a few diamond backs or scorpions????

Bears??? We have over 4000 of them. In Pennsylvania they shoot more than 4000 per year. More people and more bears....also has lots more water.


----------



## ShoerFast

ropensaddle said:


> I can agree here, outdoors men are why we have habitat left, our license fees have done more in 2 years than peta has since conception of their organization but please don't take my word on it. Theodore Roosevelt and outdoor sportsmen combined with game and fish and the wild turkey federation have set land aside for all our enjoyment and for that I am happy.



Theodore is the man! 

Theodore also hunted with a man by the name of Ben Lilly. Teddy did not hold back his opinion of Lilly, as ol-Ben did not have much place in his life for politics of any kind. As it could appear, Teddy did not have a place for Ben's religion?

People forget, or are just a lot less feral then others? 

Back in the day, Ranchers and Farmers could be wiped out over night with a single attack of a varmint.



> "_Anyone can kill a deer. It takes a man to kill a varmint." _
> 
> So said Ben Lilly, according to outdoors writer Dan C. Johnson. To Lilly, "varmints" included mountain lions, wolves and bears. Benjamin Vernon Lilly killed many a varmint in his life as the last mountain man in the Southwest.


LINK:

Ben Lilly killed for a living so others could have a better life, killing vermin was the way of life. 

Here is a link to a little about Ol Ben Lilly....


OLD WEST LEGENDS

Ben Lilly: Bears, Blades & Contradictions


----------



## CaseyForrest

deeker said:


> Maybe play with a few diamond backs or scorpions????



Deek....ive been around.

Checking the covers at night for scorpions while living in Ocala, FL. Shooing them and the Diamond backs off the porch in the morning so the dogs could go out.

I did what your group did once. I was throwing rocks at a Diamond Back we had treed. Kept getting closer and closer till I was close enough for it to lunge and it got me in the meat of my hand just below my thumb. I was around 8 or 9 at the time. The scar is still there, albeit hard to see. I just took this 2 minutes ago...






We never killed them, though...

deek, just because I dissagree with you doesnt mean Im not keen on the "real world."


----------



## BlueRidgeMark

CaseyForrest said:


> the bear obviously learned at some point it could get food there.




Yep. That's the point. Once that has happened, the bear is a danger to human life.


It doesn't matter one whit WHICH group, or groups, failed to store their food properly. It's not about whose fault it is. (It's certainly not the bear's fault!)


It's about the bear, having learned to like human food and NOT fear humans, now being a real and present danger to anyone in that campground, or any other campground that bear happens to encounter.


IF you can keep the bear from learning bad habits, great! We should all support teaching idiots how to behave in the wilderness.

But the damage had already been done. There were only two choices left:


Kill the bear now, BEFORE he hurts or kills a person.

Kill the bear later, AFTER he hurts or kills a person.

I'll take option A, thank you.


----------



## CaseyForrest

deeker said:


> Casey, your completely off base here.



No im not, we are having a dissagreement.



deeker said:


> A bear, or any predator that has killed and eaten a human will do so again.



Thats not entirely true. Likely, yes. But to assume it with 100% certainty is a stretch.



deeker said:


> Humans are slower than their usual prey animals. Easier to catch, as in stupid in the ways of the outdoor world.



Thats why Humans always lose the fight. Thats why Humans need to educate themselves when they enter the bears environment. Not just eliminate the bear so the human can carry on unincumbered.



deeker said:


> A bear, or any predator that has killed and eaten a human will do so again.
> 
> A bear, or any predator that has killed and eaten a human will do so again.
> 
> A bear, or any predator that has killed and eaten a human will do so again.



And? Dont go to where the bears are. The bears come around humans because humans think they can just carry on with their ignorant ways and eliminate the bear when it comes around.



deeker said:


> From Indian tigers and lions, to African lions, leopard's and south American Jaguars, to North American Cougars, wolves and bears.



Sound like wild animals to me. Id keep my distance. Hell...Id go way out of my way to avoid meeting face to face. But if it happens...then Id do what I needed to do to survive.



deeker said:


> One leopard in India in the Rudraprayag region dined on at least 125 humans, over an 8 year period. The fun continued from 1918 to 1926.



So what you are really saying is the people never wised up to the fact they had a leopard that wasnt scared of humans.



deeker said:


> I know, I know feed the predators. Not on my life or those around me.



No, let the predators feed themselves.



deeker said:


> As for snakes. I don't kill many rattlesnakes. But I have killed several over the years. Especially where there are children.



Snakes want nothing to do with humans. People get bit for one of a couple reasons....They inadvertenly step on one, they surprise the snake or they arent making enough noise to let the snake know its coming. When we wandered around in FL..we carried cans with marbles in them, stomped our feet etc.



deeker said:


> All blackwidow and brown recluse spiders.....only eat little bugs.....but they are dead on sight with me.



Id probably do the same...if I noticed an increase in numbers around the house. The difference is they are entering my domain....



deeker said:


> I certainly don't ascribe to the bleeding heart's that believe Disney animals talk to each other....go on picnics.



Me either.



deeker said:


> Because I live in the real world.



Me too.



deeker said:


> Perhaps you want us to surrender all of our homes, towns and all man has made to revert back to "the way it was". Here is a bit of hard FACT!!!!



Nope, thats not what Ive said at all.



deeker said:


> There are more deer and other wildlife, except for the Bison (requires huge tracts of land to roam) than there was in the 1500's. Why? Man has built reservoirs that water the deserts and other arid regions.



Thats because people mainly buy their meat in a store, rather than hunting it.



deeker said:


> Come out to Utah sometime. I would be happy to show you the real world.



The real world is alive and well right here in MI. Id like to visit Utah though...



deeker said:


> Maybe play with a few diamond backs or scorpions????



Already done that.



deeker said:


> Bears??? We have over 4000 of them. In Pennsylvania they shoot more than 4000 per year. More people and more bears....also has lots more water.



We got bears in MI too.


----------



## CaseyForrest

BlueRidgeMark said:


> Yep. That's the point. Once that has happened, the bear is a danger to human life.
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter one whit WHICH group, or groups, failed to store their food properly. It's not about whose fault it is. (It's certainly not the bear's fault!)
> 
> 
> It's about the bear, having learned to like human food and NOT fear humans, now being a real and present danger to anyone in that campground, or any other campground that bear happens to encounter.
> 
> 
> IF you can keep the bear from learning bad habits, great! We should all support teaching idiots how to behave in the wilderness.
> 
> But the damage had already been done. There were only two choices left:
> 
> 
> Kill the bear now, BEFORE he hurts or kills a person.
> 
> Kill the bear later, AFTER he hurts or kills a person.
> 
> I'll take option A, thank you.



Agreed.

I take issue with the fact the campground didnt properly instruct the people camping there. There was a major drop in communication and as such a wild animal doing only what it knows how to do is dead. Because of stupid, ignorant people.

Chaps my ass.

That coupled with the fact people from the city think "it wont happen to me."


----------



## ShoerFast

Couple springs ago I won a bid to clear the trees for a new road that went in an area straight north of Pikes Peak CO . 

Fun job, paid well, and was about as remote a setting that you could imagine. It was strange how the deer in the area seemed to like to hang around within the noise of the saws and equipment. It was not hard to put it together as there were several patches of deer hair and bones from lion-kills. 

It worked best to pick the days that the blade and excavator were not running to knock-out the trees to keep ahead of the grade. So I would park as far as I could on the roughed in road. Usually did everything in 2 and 3-day camps. 

One night nature called and this was just not going to wait till morning. 

Putting a roll of tp over a shovel-handle to trudge into the night to get-er-done, I noticed that I did not have a single flashlight or lantern that worked. 

Pure blind, couldn't see my hand at reading distance from my face, stumbling and tripping around till I found a suitable spot to dig a hole, I thought I heard something?

Right in the middle of 'busy' I definitely could smell lion! 

You don't know how vulnerable that feels, I bet that was the last time there was a flashlight in the truck that didn't work, or something of a descent 'puma' caliber! 

I have no doubt how that Camp Host felt when he did his job and rolled that possibly rabid bear in the weeds.


----------



## deeker

CaseyForrest said:


> Agreed.
> 
> I take issue with the fact the campground didnt properly instruct the people camping there. There was a major drop in communication and as such a wild animal doing only what it knows how to do is dead. Because of stupid, ignorant people.
> 
> Chaps my ass.
> 
> That coupled with the fact people from the city think "it wont happen to me."



Dear Chaps......that would be a huge and incorrect assumption that they were not told to watch their children and how the food is to be safely stored.

Signs posted all the way up all of the canyons. About bears, what not to do and what is okay in bear country.

Campers see these signs before they enter the campground, in the campground and are told what not to do in bear country upon their arrival.

This particular bear had NO fear of people. And as clean as this particular camp is kept. There is no reason to believe or even suspect the bear had any human food.

The coolers it had broken into had only ice. An amateur at best.

As to how it acted prior to being shot??? It kept advancing toward the camp host, even after being hit by several large rocks. A warning shot was fired in front of his feet, and he kept coming towards the host.

Hence the dead bear. It was not underweight nor was it suffering from hunger. Its stomach was mostly full.

It had been chased away before, when there were no campers. It came back. A couple more times.

Only after the host and campers had taken action was it shot.

Sorry about the chappy.......well...um...

Carry on.

Kevin


----------



## ropensaddle

deeker said:


> Dear Chaps......that would be a huge and incorrect assumption that they were not told to watch their children and how the food is to be safely stored.
> 
> Signs posted all the way up all of the canyons. About bears, what not to do and what is okay in bear country.
> 
> Campers see these signs before they enter the campground, in the campground and are told what not to do in bear country upon their arrival.
> 
> This particular bear had NO fear of people. And as clean as this particular camp is kept. There is no reason to believe or even suspect the bear had any human food.
> 
> The coolers it had broken into had only ice. An amateur at best.
> 
> As to how it acted prior to being shot??? It kept advancing toward the camp host, even after being hit by several large rocks. A warning shot was fired in front of his feet, and he kept coming towards the host.
> 
> Hence the dead bear. It was not underweight nor was it suffering from hunger. Its stomach was mostly full.
> 
> It had been chased away before, when there were no campers. It came back. A couple more times.
> 
> Only after the host and campers had taken action was it shot.
> 
> Sorry about the chappy.......well...um...
> 
> Carry on.
> 
> Kevin



Yup problem animals exist I have no problem dispatching an animal threatening human life and that goes for domestic animals too. I have had dogs growl at my wife a grand child on our property they only growled once. If you care about your dog keep it off my farm. I have rabbits,deer and trying to establish turkey and stray mutts are no good for nothing imo. I am going to set traps to clean these vermin and then start raising chickens, Quail and maybe pheasant but not until these mutts are all gone I watched a tv program where a bunch of stupid people treed a bear up a power pole and instead of just leaving it alone they stood around near the pole and then some dip decided to shoot it with a tranquillizer dart. They really make stupid decisions trying to save an animal imo if they would have backed off for an hour it would have came down on its own without getting zapped


----------



## Brushwacker

CaseyForrest said:


> I dont believe animals have more rights either....but I also dont believe humans have more rights. We all share a balance of rights the insure each of us survives.
> 
> Why stop at bears? Why not get rid of anything that hinders human activity? Not sticking up for PETA or HSUS, but imagine where the earth would be if folks with your mindset werent confronted by the eco freaks?
> 
> And since youre for getting rid of bears, cause ......
> 
> 
> 
> Gosh...lets get rid of snakes, too. OH...and some people are allergic to bees, so lets get rid of them.
> 
> Outdoorsman have a responsibility to protect the wilderness. Not move everything out of their way to accomodate themselves. Ever hear of #### Proenneke? I wonder how he did it for 35 years....



Go back and read all my post . Getting rid of problem bears that do not fear humans and maintaining a population of bears that do fear humans.
There is nothing wrong with my mind set here. Some people can't compete with nature the way eco freaks expect they should and yet maintain their livlyhoods. If your not 1 of them you sure don't post like it. What ? You don't kill mosquitoes , or anything ? Do you eat meat ? Do you believe we have no more rights then cows, chickens, pigs, etc. . Do domestic animals have = rights with the bears and other wild animals ? 
From what I gather from your posts ,you perceive we humans are no more important then a bug. So what do you do when a mosquito approaches ? I expect if you have enough time to swat at it you should pack up and get out before someone needlessly kills it for revenge.
I don't kill things for revenge by the way.


----------



## rob206

CaseyForrest said:


> Ummm....teach people how to store their food and trash. The bears only hang around cause they know they can get food. Eventually they become fearless of humans cause they know they can get food. They become lazy and stop looking for food because they know where they can get it, easily. Then, when they get hungry, they get aggressive, and know where they can get food.
> 
> People, if they are going to assume the responsibility of sleeping outdoors, need to educate themselves on the habits of animals they may encounter. People that go to these fly by night, pay as you go campgrounds, I can assure you don't have a clue as to the proper procedures for animal proofing their supplies and garbage. Then, when a bear does happen around, its the bears fault and the bear must be put down...
> 
> Why not just sue the bear for trespassing?
> 
> The bear has more rights to the outdoors than you and I.




Agreed. I have seen numerous videos of people feeding bears and then bears becoming aggressive because the food runs out. I remember some clown that thought it would be cute to walk right up to a wild buffalo, thankfully he was taken out of the gene pool. A lot of people think wild animals are cute and cuddly, not potentialy dangerous and to be respected.


----------



## sbhooper

Jeez, Deek. You would think that you posted this on a chainsaw thread! 

It amazes me how many people want to protect agressive animals. Agressive animals are no different than agressive people-they need to be dealt with. That bear was no different than the rat that breaks in and beats an old lady with a baseball bat. If it did not happen that time, the bear would have eventually hurt or killed someone. 

That campground is for the enjoyment of people. They should not have to worry about their kids and looking over their shoulders for a stupid bear. If it is such a hazzard to the poor bears, then they need to close it for good. If not, then it is encumbent upon the authorities to protect the campers. 

Look at California. They did the PETA thing and protected mountain lions and now the lions are eating bikers and joggers. I can't honestly say that I have a problem with them eating a few granola heads, but the point is that animals need to be controlled and in fear of people. 

People are not going to leave the environment, and so time cannot be reversed. Unfortuneately, in people/animal conflicts the animal is ultimately going to lose. It will be no different as long as people keep encroaching on the habitat. 

Black bears are in no danger of being wiped out, so the bottom line is that a few killed in protection of people or property is NO BIG DEAL.


----------



## CaseyForrest

Brushwacker said:


> Go back and read all my post . Getting rid of problem bears that do not fear humans and maintaining a population of bears that do fear humans.
> There is nothing wrong with my mind set here. Some people can't compete with nature the way eco freaks expect they should and yet maintain their livlyhoods. If your not 1 of them you sure don't post like it. What ? You don't kill mosquitoes , or anything ? Do you eat meat ? Do you believe we have no more rights then cows, chickens, pigs, etc. . Do domestic animals have = rights with the bears and other wild animals ?
> From what I gather from your posts ,you perceive we humans are no more important then a bug. So what do you do when a mosquito approaches ? I expect if you have enough time to swat at it you should pack up and get out before someone needlessly kills it for revenge.
> I don't kill things for revenge by the way.



Generally, the animals that dont fear humans are that way because of the actions of humans. Yes there are instances of animals that havent had any contact with humans and are unafraid anyway...

However, thats usually due to that animal being hungry, not being able to find food on its own and venturing closer to civilization.


----------



## CaseyForrest

sbhooper said:


> Jeez, Deek. You would think that you posted this on a chainsaw thread!
> 
> It amazes me how many people want to protect agressive animals. Agressive animals are no different than agressive people-they need to be dealt with. That bear was no different than the rat that breaks in and beats an old lady with a baseball bat. If it did not happen that time, the bear would have eventually hurt or killed someone.



MOST of the time these agressive animals are a direct result of stupid humans. 



sbhooper said:


> That campground is for the enjoyment of people. They should not have to worry about their kids and looking over their shoulders for a stupid bear. If it is such a hazzard to the poor bears, then they need to close it for good. If not, then it is encumbent upon the authorities to protect the campers.



The bears come around because the people have been lax in their responsibilities in making sure things are bear proof.

Its also incumbent on people to make prudent decisions. 



sbhooper said:


> Look at California. They did the PETA thing and protected mountain lions and now the lions are eating bikers and joggers. I can't honestly say that I have a problem with them eating a few granola heads, but the point is that animals need to be controlled and in fear of people.



Got a link to a story? I feel this is more widespread than you are letting on.



sbhooper said:


> People are not going to leave the environment, and so time cannot be reversed. Unfortuneately, in people/animal conflicts the animal is ultimately going to lose. It will be no different as long as people keep encroaching on the habitat.



And thats all Im saying. Humans take and take with no respect for the natural inhabitants of a given area. When those inhabitants show up, they are deemed agressive and put down. Its no different then a city slicker moving in next to a dairy farm and complaining about the smell.



sbhooper said:


> Black bears are in no danger of being wiped out, so the bottom line is that a few killed in protection of people or property is NO BIG DEAL.



So long as the bears actions arent a direct result of the laziness of humans.


----------



## BlueRidgeMark

CaseyForrest said:


> So long as the bears actions arent a direct result of the laziness of humans.




Non sequitur. It doesn't matter in the least HOW or WHY a dangerous animal became dangerous. If they are aggressive, down they go.


----------



## Brushwacker

CaseyForrest said:


> Generally, the animals that dont fear humans are that way because of the actions of humans. Yes there are instances of animals that havent had any contact with humans and are unafraid anyway...
> 
> However, thats usually due to that animal being hungry, not being able to find food on its own and venturing closer to civilization.



Easily understood people do ignorant things to lure the animal closer or,and are careless that some of these animals learn not to fear humans. Plenty of information put out do's and don'ts that people,especially greenies and city people that want to see these supposed harmless animals up close up ignore. I have been with people like that and have read numerous accounts of ill effects of it for several decades. Often times other food is availuble but since the animal see's an oppurtunity for something easiar or better tasting or it just may get greedy or territorial it leads to human conflict. I have had many problems with hawks getting my fowl. Being as their protected many of them lose their fear of humans and become over abundant. I have drove up my drive numerous times and they attempt to hold their ground and eat my birds me being close as 10 to 15 feet. Not just a few, I had a couple very bad years with several differant type prey birds. When they get that bold the problem birds need to learn to fear humans or its a conflict. Thanks to the eco freaks these birds of prey have full protection. If they'd allow some thinning of them most of the problem birds would learn fear or be thinned and the wilder ones would frequent area's farther from humans eliminating most the conflicts.
I know from experiance, back in the 70's it was legal to shoot hawks and there was plenty of them but it wasn't often they come up to the farm for a chicken.


----------



## Brushwacker

BlueRidgeMark said:


> Non sequitur. It doesn't matter in the least HOW or WHY a dangerous animal became dangerous. If they are aggressive, down they go.


Amen to that...


----------



## ropensaddle

CaseyForrest said:


> Generally, the animals that dont fear humans are that way because of the actions of humans. Yes there are instances of animals that havent had any contact with humans and are unafraid anyway...
> 
> However, thats usually due to that animal being hungry, not being able to find food on its own and venturing closer to civilization.



Not exactly, as I was saying the refuge I used to enjoy hunting does not allow bear hunting and these bears never learn to fear man. A black bear is essentially a big,big coon in many ways. The bear where I hunt now can be hunted and you rarely see one but there sign is everywhere so they are there plenty. Bears can smell better than deer and are tougher to hunt without bait. Bears that have been pursued are smart and avoid areas humans inhabit so your only talking about areas they can't be hunted and yes in those areas many city boy types cause problems by feeding or being careless with foodstuffs. Ultimately the bear loses in areas which don't allow hunting pressure to create a healthy fear of humans and since these areas were mandated non-hunting by people you are correct, probably not what you meant though.


----------



## BuddhaKat

CaseyForrest said:


> LOL!
> 
> Give the bear a gun. Lets make it a fair fight.


I second the motion. In fact, I think the bear should have 5 seconds to make his shot first before the human can pull his trigger. Just to be fair.


----------



## ropensaddle

BuddhaKat said:


> I second the motion. In fact, I think the bear should have 5 seconds to make his shot first before the human can pull his trigger. Just to be fair.



You are a troubled individual if you really feel that way.


----------



## BuddhaKat

CaseyForrest said:


> Got a link to a story? I feel this is more widespread than you are letting on.


http://tchester.org/sgm/lists/lion_attacks_ca.html

http://tchester.org/sgm/lists/lion_attacks_nonca.html

What do you think my sig is about?


----------



## ShoerFast

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/LZnsL7-UdGc&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/LZnsL7-UdGc&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

This is what a legal bear hunt looks like,,,,and an outlaw bear. 

Alaska Fish and Game ruled this as the thing to do. The Guide did not have to like it, he did do his job.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZnsL7-UdGc


----------



## ropensaddle

ShoerFast said:


> <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/LZnsL7-UdGc&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/LZnsL7-UdGc&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
> 
> This is what a legal bear hunt looks like,,,,and an outlaw bear.
> 
> Alaska Fish and Game ruled this as the thing to do. The Guide did not have to like it, he did do his job.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZnsL7-UdGc



Had no other choice other than be mutilated and leave his client in jeopardy, good guide; waited as long as he could to make sure it was not a bluff charge! I always wonder what a peta member would do in that scenario?


----------



## sbhooper

The PETA would have shown up as pieces of sandal and small bells the next time the bear took a crap.

I actually saw that film when it aired on the Outdoor Channel. That cameraman was amazingly calm and got some once-in-a-lifetime footage. That bear had one thing on her mind-to kill the interlopers. She was not provoked and they did all they could to avoid killing her. The guide was phenomenally cool in a serious situation.


----------



## ropensaddle

sbhooper said:


> The PETA would have shown up as pieces of sandal and small bells the next time the bear took a crap.
> 
> I actually saw that film when it aired on the Outdoor Channel. That cameraman was amazingly calm and got some once-in-a-lifetime footage. That bear had one thing on her mind-to kill the interlopers. She was not provoked and they did all they could to avoid killing her. The guide was phenomenally cool in a serious situation.



Calm is why they all have their appendages today


----------



## deeker

*Another one bites the dust!!!*

And another one's gone..........

Provo Utah, over the weekend. Another young male black bear....wondered into an area (homes since the 1860's) and was not afraid of anyone.

He was promptly shot.

We should have evacuated all the people instead. Flattened the homes. And planted berries. Instead of shooting Boo Boo.

Stay tuned to the real world...........


----------



## CaseyForrest

deeker said:


> And another one's gone..........
> 
> Provo Utah, over the weekend. Another young male black bear....wondered into an area (homes since the 1860's) and was not afraid of anyone.
> 
> He was promptly shot.
> 
> We should have evacuated all the people instead. Flattened the homes. And planted berries. Instead of shooting Boo Boo.
> 
> Stay tuned to the real world...........



This is exactly why Groundman responds to you the way he does.

You cant let a simple disagreement be a simple disagreement.

Dont bother reporting anymore of Groundies posts.


----------



## ShoerFast

CaseyForrest said:


> This is exactly why Groundman responds to you the way he does.
> 
> You cant let a simple disagreement be a simple disagreement.
> 
> Dont bother reporting anymore of Groundies posts.



Now that is the best explanation I have heard yet describing what some don't understand to what leads up to why vermin get euthanized. 

Some bears may not know that they are being offensive, it is just in there nature to not pay a lot of attention to what there doing. 

Many bears took the easy way out and started to loose there inherited respect they have for humans by eating there suit and bird feed, it's easy.

Life gets a little easer when they figure out what day is garbage day, not a lot of work knocking over trash cans, why not, they can get away with it. 

Some wander into garages as there boldness replaces any attachment they had there inherent respect for humans. 

If any remember how bold some people got when they would talk on CB radios? Bears might start to think that they are 10' tall and bullet prof when they figure out there are no consequences with human interaction, Just like the radio Rambos realize that nothing is going to reach out of that radio and offer consequences for something they said. 

People do escalate these problems by feeding bears, and there are some organizations and people that offer protection to the bears. I assure you that humans did not get respect from bears by asking for it by feeding and protecting them. 

When a bear losses that respect somewhere somehow they will cross the line and have to be dealt with.


----------



## deeker

TreeCo said:


> Shoe you have a very poor understanding of what the word 'respect' means.



Spoken by the protected, with no real world experience. Unlike Shoe.


----------



## Kilkenny

Yes it's sad. But a child getting killed would be a hell of a lot sadder. And that stuff does happen with aggressive bears. It's not the last bear in the world anyway. 

Good shoot.


----------



## sbhooper

The PETA types want to equate all animals to people-and we should. If people are a danger, they should also be shot on sight!


----------



## Northwind

CaseyForrest said:


> As I would mine....by not willingly putting them in harms way by standing close enough to something that will attack me and eat me, to throw rocks at it.
> 
> I already said Im not a PETA fanatic...but bears have just as much right to the outdoors, if not more, than humans. We can not invade their living space and assume we have the right to not be bothered.
> 
> Im sure you guys did what you thought was right...and Ive no issue with that. I find it said that man feels the need to get back to his roots by sleeping under the stars and eliminating any threats to him doing so.
> 
> Killing wildlife just so people can continue to go on family camping trips is stupid. Why not a tranq gun and relocate? The people said this bear had been around before...





LOL... So if this was in a town vs. the campground would you advise the town be evacuated until the bear leaves or just tell everyone to stay in their house until the bear dies of natural causes??????


----------



## CaseyForrest

Northwind said:


> LOL... So if this was in a town vs. the campground would you advise the town be evacuated until the bear leaves or just tell everyone to stay in their house until the bear dies of natural causes??????



Uhhh...

Yeah.

Everyone stay inside till the bear dies of old age.


----------



## deeker

Sadly, more bears get shot. Even after the wet spring, wettest in Utah's recorded history.

One biologist thinks that the big boars are expanding their areas, and chasing out the smaller and younger males.

SALT LAKE CITY -- There's no question there seems to be many more bear sightings this summer, but five bears shot dead in just days is unheard of in Utah. 

Last year, no one is known to have killed a bear outside of the hunting season, but the five shot this year were all killed within two weeks. Now the Utah Division of Wildlife Resources is voicing concerns over how people are dealing with the bears. 

Last week, the Harris family took a trip to a cabin at Pines Ranch, near Oakley. The family had just arrived a few minutes before a bear showed up. 

"There was this huge bear, and it started climbing on our fence and was trying to reach the bird feeder. And that's when I started screaming down the hall, ‘There's a bear!' said Payton Harris. 

Very frightened, the family waited until the bear left and then drove down the canyon to notify authorities. 

"I felt dumb calling 911 to let them know there was a bear in the mountains, but they took it very seriously and were so good and came up and said they are dangerous," Aimee Harris said. 

The DWR hopes you will call in too if you encounter a bear in a place people frequent. Of the recent cases of bears being shot to death, the DWR says in most of them they didn't even know about the problem bear until it was dead. 

"To have five black bears taken in a couple of weeks, it's got us wondering why folks are doing that," said DWR spokesman Mark Hadley. 

The DWR realizes the Pleasant Grove boy killed by a bear two years ago is still on people's minds, but officers believe using deadly force is a last step. 

Officers point to cases like one in 2002 when a bear was found in a tree along a small town's Main Street. That bear was caught and released in the mountains. 

DWR officers routinely trap and move problem bears to new areas without incident. Pulling out a gun and shooting just because you encounter a bear could lead to charges if the bear is poses no threat. 

"These bears are protected just like deer and elk and all the other wildlife in Utah. Bears are a protected species, and people need to keep that in mind," Hadley said. 

So far, only one of the five investigations into the bear shootings has been finished. In that case, no charges will be filed. 

Prosecutors in the other jurisdictions will review the evidence before deciding if the people were justified in putting the bears down. 

E-mail: [email protected]


----------



## sdt7618

Kilkenny said:


> Yes it's sad. But a child getting killed would be a hell of a lot sadder. And that stuff does happen with aggressive bears. It's not the last bear in the world anyway.
> Good shoot.



Now having read this debate for the first time tonight, I have views for both sides, but this post above really chaps my hide..... I bet you all drive cars.... cars kill.. should we get rid of them? just like the bear? guns kill should we get rid of them all? People kill. lets start to kill anyone that shoes any sign of aggression etc? 



thought not! 

ever hear the saying does a bear sh*t in the woods... why? cause thats it's home. Now here in the uk we would be sent to jail for protecting our home with agression but you guys would blow holes in someone for coming into your home and would more than likely be ok( I agree that every one has a right to protect their home and family ) but so do the bears!



anyway whats wrong with live and let live! ...


----------



## cord arrow

> Now here in the uk we would be sent to jail for protecting our home with agression



...or farting sideways....

SO...you have a lot of bear encounters in the UK?


----------



## clearance

cord arrow said:


> ...or farting sideways....
> 
> SO...you have a lot of bear encounters in the UK?



Good one, the only bears in the uk are in zoos. 
Once I was in the bush with my friends nephew from England. Driving down a real steep set of switchbacks I stopped to let the brakes cool. A couple of Grizzly cubs walked across the road in front of us. I stopped him from getting out to take thier picture. Soon enough the mom came, but we were in a running big pickup. If we were on foot, he would not have been scared at all, might have tried to pet them, I would have been scared, because I know about bears, and what they can do. 

And thats the difference, between those who know, personally and those who get thier knowledge from tv.:deadhorse:


----------



## ropensaddle

sdt7618 said:


> Now having read this debate for the first time tonight, I have views for both sides, but this post above really chaps my hide..... I bet you all drive cars.... cars kill.. should we get rid of them? just like the bear? guns kill should we get rid of them all? People kill. lets start to kill anyone that shoes any sign of aggression etc?
> 
> 
> 
> thought not!
> 
> ever hear the saying does a bear sh*t in the woods... why? cause thats it's home. Now here in the uk we would be sent to jail for protecting our home with agression but you guys would blow holes in someone for coming into your home and would more than likely be ok( I agree that every one has a right to protect their home and family ) but so do the bears!
> 
> 
> 
> anyway whats wrong with live and let live! ...



Ok, we stick you by a bear den give you a gun and I will blow my cub in distress call and see if you are willing to be attacked without shooting, you game?


----------



## Kilkenny

sdt7618 said:


> Now having read this debate for the first time tonight, I have views for both sides, but this post above really chaps my hide..... I bet you all drive cars.... cars kill.. should we get rid of them? just like the bear? guns kill should we get rid of them all? People kill. lets start to kill anyone that shoes any sign of aggression etc?
> 
> 
> 
> thought not!
> 
> ever hear the saying does a bear sh*t in the woods... why? cause thats it's home. Now here in the uk we would be sent to jail for protecting our home with agression but you guys would blow holes in someone for coming into your home and would more than likely be ok( I agree that every one has a right to protect their home and family ) but so do the bears!
> 
> 
> 
> anyway whats wrong with live and let live! ...



That's really not what I was talking about. I'm addressing the people who will get all mad because a bear had to die, while forgetting that the alternative could very well be a human dying. There are many, many bears out there and most of them don't bother people. When the ones that do aren't dealt with, the result can be quite disastrous. By the way, cars and guns do not kill. Irresponsible or malicious operators of those things do, but that's a different topic. 

As to your last statement, you say that you agree that everyone has a right to protect their home and family. That's exactly what they did when they killed this bear. It's very sad that the bear had to die. My question is this, though. If it was your son, daughter, nephew, niece, etc nearby a bear that had no fear of humans, would you say that the bear has a right to defend itself and let it attack first?


----------



## yooper

clearance said:


> Good one, the only bears in the uk are in zoos.
> Once I was in the bush with my friends nephew from England. Driving down a real steep set of switchbacks I stopped to let the brakes cool. A couple of Grizzly cubs walked across the road in front of us. I stopped him from getting out to take thier picture. Soon enough the mom came, but we were in a running big pickup. If we were on foot, he would not have been scared at all, might have tried to pet them, I would have been scared, because I know about bears, and what they can do.
> 
> And thats the difference, between those who know, personally and those who get thier knowledge from tv.:deadhorse:



good very good response, we get people that come here from below the Mackinaw bridge"frig-en trolls" that pull up to a restaurant with a dumpster and actually try to bring their kids out of the car in front of the black bears to take a photo, and even better the A- holes that are dumb enough to but an ice cream cone on the hood of there car to get a close up photo of a bear. sometimes i go down to the local back woods restaurant just to see if I can see some stupid fool from the Ill. or down state cities to get eaten by a bear. Its funny because you can tell these people until you are black and blue in the face that its not a good idea and they will stand there with this cidiot look in there face.....hope I have a camera when a head flies off a shoulder what a great shot that would be:hmm3grin2orange:
If I have a problem with a bear in my Yard and I know its a fed restaurant bear that has been human fed I will shoot it in the gut with a couple rounds of bird shot and let it ither go off and die or perhaps it wont return for another couple shots. not my fault it was human fed, I should not have to deal with it. there easy to tell if I go out and it runs well it doesn't get shot, no run well its shot!


----------



## deeker

yooper said:


> good very good response, we get people that come here from below the Mackinaw bridge"frig-en trolls" that pull up to a restaurant with a dumpster and actually try to bring their kids out of the car in front of the black bears to take a photo, and even better the A- holes that are dumb enough to but an ice cream cone on the hood of there car to get a close up photo of a bear. sometimes i go down to the local back woods restaurant just to see if I can see some stupid fool from the Ill. or down state cities to get eaten by a bear. Its funny because you can tell these people until you are black and blue in the face that its not a good idea and they will stand there with this cidiot look in there face.....hope I have a camera when a head flies off a shoulder what a great shot that would be:hmm3grin2orange:



Your "cidiot" is now mine. All mine. And only mine.


----------



## yooper

deeker said:


> your "cidiot" is now mine. All mine. And only mine.



keep him/her THERE ALL YOURS


----------



## sdt7618

ropensaddle said:


> Ok, we stick you by a bear den give you a gun and I will blow my cub in distress call and see if you are willing to be attacked without shooting, you game?




if thats how you get your kicks.

The whole point of what I am trying to say is if you go to the bears home, why shouldn't it protect it. 

we live in house's etc... bear live in the woods.

Ain't trying to start a pissin contest.. enough of that already in this thread.


----------



## sdt7618

Kilkenny said:


> That's really not what I was talking about. I'm addressing the people who will get all mad because a bear had to die, while forgetting that the alternative could very well be a human dying. There are many, many bears out there and most of them don't bother people. When the ones that do aren't dealt with, the result can be quite disastrous. By the way, cars and guns do not kill. Irresponsible or malicious operators of those things do, but that's a different topic.
> 
> As to your last statement, you say that you agree that everyone has a right to protect their home and family. That's exactly what they did when they killed this bear. It's very sad that the bear had to die. My question is this, though. If it was your son, daughter, nephew, niece, etc nearby a bear that had no fear of humans, would you say that the bear has a right to defend itself and let it attack first?




Hey, I wouldn't hesitate. the point some other's here have tried to make and seems to be overlooked, that the people camping were in the woods! the bears natural home. 

anyway never mind we all have our views if they aren't they same thats great, thats what make this site so cool to come and kick it about a bit.


----------



## ropensaddle

sdt7618 said:


> if thats how you get your kicks.
> 
> The whole point of what I am trying to say is if you go to the bears home, why shouldn't it protect it.
> 
> we live in house's etc... bear live in the woods.
> 
> Ain't trying to start a pissin contest.. enough of that already in this thread.



Sometimes they are not protecting they are hungry. If you want to be bear dung I don't care, as for me and many who actually seen bear in the wild, we are not going to be mauled without a fight. I have never seen a sign that states these woods are owned by black bear,Mountain lion or any other wild animal. My tax dollars and hunting license paid for the land to be set aside to keep yuppies from taking all the habitat. I will have no remorse for any wild animal attacking me or mine but will do everything in my power to end the attack. 
If you wont or can't understand that, then so what, just means you have no experience in wilderness settings. I have only had one, not so good experience with one of the fifteen bears I have encountered in the wild but the bear 600 lb made a wise decision at 45 yards to turn and run. I am assuming you would have petted it like the grizzly nut eaten by a kodiac for trying to slap it on the nose and say no?


----------



## sbhooper

It amazes me how people continue to play the protectionist crap in defense of this stupid bear. If you had a leaning tree threatening your kid's playground, you would cut it down-right? IT IS NO DIFFERENT WITH A BEAR-if he is a threat, you cut him down! Bears are a renewable resource just like the tree and there is darn sure no shortage of them. Get off the granola-head crap and get real!!


----------



## Austin1

This is a hard topic to give a answer to! Example I was on a fishing trip up North about 12 years ago and the Campground had ton's of Bear Warning Signs posted. My Best Friend was with me for a week of Fishing and his Sister worked near the Area as a Park Ranger she warned us about the bears a very low berry year so they were hungry. We actually stayed in the Ranger site for a night before leaving so had lot's of time to talk to the (Expert's)They showed us the barrel traps and dead Beavers they kept in a freezer. Worst thing was Friends Sister who I also went to School with trumped me up saying this guy knows what to do. I made a joke about Bear repellent one guy said it was not 100% proven I said to him mine was proven since 1894 as my Bear repellent was a 94 win in 30/30 not too extreme but like I said only to be used if it was a clear case of it eating me!. 
This is were it get's complicated you should always be ready to defend yourself be it a two or four legged varmint. Gee i sound like a American but I would feel less on my conscious if I got rid of a two legged Varmint than a four legged one Because the Bear or Cougar is doing what just comes Natural to them the two legged one has a choice.
This spring I found a nice blown down tree I wanted to cut up for wood as I was Elk Scouting in the area Problem was There was a dead Moose nearby with big muddy Griz tracks all over the place. That Moose belonged to that bear!He woke up to find a dead Moose most likely a bad shot during hunting season. But I would not shoot that bear if I saw it just for a log and some firewood. 
K country in my Backyard a 40 min Drive from home has Dinner time Grizzly's, By that they have grown acustomed to a Rifle shot by a Elk or Sheep hunter meaning a free meal. They will move in fast and Claim any meat they can find, Should they be shot for staking claim to what they have found? A hunter might only get two quaters back before the big old Grizz stakes a claim on his native land. I say Give him the rest and walk away as do most here. 
But if he or she comes for me rather than just showing a big huff and puff show then they will catch a .375 slug through the boiler room.


----------



## ropensaddle

Austin1 said:


> This is a hard topic to give a answer to! Example I was on a fishing trip up North about 12 years ago and the Campground had ton's of Bear Warning Signs posted. My Best Friend was with me for a week of Fishing and his Sister worked near the Area as a Park Ranger she warned us about the bears a very low berry year so they were hungry. We actually stayed in the Ranger site for a night before leaving so had lot's of time to talk to the (Expert's)They showed us the barrel traps and dead Beavers they kept in a freezer. Worst thing was Friends Sister who I also went to School with trumped me up saying this guy knows what to do. I made a joke about Bear repellent one guy said it was not 100% proven I said to him mine was proven since 1894 as my Bear repellent was a 94 win in 30/30 not too extreme but like I said only to be used if it was a clear case of it eating me!.
> This is were it get's complicated you should always be ready to defend yourself be it a two or four legged varmint. Gee i sound like a American but I would feel less on my conscious if I got rid of a two legged Varmint than a four legged one Because the Bear or Cougar is doing what just comes Natural to them the two legged one has a choice.
> This spring I found a nice blown down tree I wanted to cut up for wood as I was Elk Scouting in the area Problem was There was a dead Moose nearby with big muddy Griz tracks all over the place. That Moose belonged to that bear!He woke up to find a dead Moose most likely a bad shot during hunting season. But I would not shoot that bear if I saw it just for a log and some firewood.
> K country in my Backyard a 40 min Drive from home has Dinner time Grizzly's, By that they have grown acustomed to a Rifle shot by a Elk or Sheep hunter meaning a free meal. They will move in fast and Claim any meat they can find, Should they be shot for staking claim to what they have found? A hunter might only get two quaters back before the big old Grizz stakes a claim on his native land. I say Give him the rest and walk away as do most here.
> But if he or she comes for me rather than just showing a big huff and puff show then they will catch a .375 slug through the boiler room.



I was about to say 30 30 hardly suitable for griz when I scrooled down a bit further and seen the 375 that is what I would want backing me up. I would like to take one with my bow if I had a good backup that I could trust.


----------



## Austin1

ropensaddle said:


> I was about to say 30 30 hardly suitable for griz when I scrooled down a bit further and seen the 375 that is what I would want backing me up. I would like to take one with my bow if I had a good backup that I could trust.


Ya I hear ya a 30/30 is not the best but beet's throwing rocks or making noise I always have the little trapper 16'' barrel in the Truck or Camper Other than the Eastern Slopes or Close to Sundre area all the bears you run into are Blacks. 
A really good read on bears of Alberta can be found in Andy Russel's Grizzle Country. As A kid I used to listen to his radio show. 
I like my .375 BRNO and my Old Mauser in 9.3 plus my Husky in .358 Norma. I like the meduim bores lol.
But I had the Sh** scared out of me one night dragging a small White tale Doe back that I took with my .54 hawken Rep. I got snorted at 50yds from the truck followed by something coming up fast to my right only moon light to go by the barrel of my musket felt like a compass needle fallowing the sound. I often Bow hunt this area for Elk but have yet to get in Range of one.
I have to be honest I feel naked without a firearm as handguns are a No No in Canada to carry wile big game hunting but I would feel much better if I could pack my Ruger Black Hawk 45 and some hot handloads with me wile bow hunting in this area.
I do have a funny Black bear Story though.


----------



## deeker

I believe most states and in Canada, if your big game hunted quarrey is taken over by a bear.....they can issue another permit for the hunter.

In that case, I would surrender the game.

Unless the bear continued in my direction, after a warning shot.

Hunting Elk, in the high Uinta's of Utah several years ago.....a mid sized black bear came into the gut pile. He ate all of it....tried to climb up for the hind quaters of the elk....hanging in a tree. Sadly we had no camera....when we came back that afternoon for the hind quaters....he was on a little hill sniffing us....and he left.


----------



## Austin1

deeker said:


> I believe most states and in Canada, if your big game hunted quarrey is taken over by a bear.....they can issue another permit for the hunter.
> 
> In that case, I would surrender the game.
> 
> Unless the bear continued in my direction, after a warning shot.
> 
> Hunting Elk, in the high Uinta's of Utah several years ago.....a mid sized black bear came into the gut pile. He ate all of it....tried to climb up for the hind quaters of the elk....hanging in a tree. Sadly we had no camera....when we came back that afternoon for the hind quaters....he was on a little hill sniffing us....and he left.


Yes they will do that issue another license.We had a gal mauled here a few years ago she shot a elk and was tracking it when the attack happened. She was admit that the bear not be hunted down very tuff lady!Her husband went nut's when she did not return to camp so a search was launched.


----------



## olyman

clearance said:


> Good one, the only bears in the uk are in zoos.
> Once I was in the bush with my friends nephew from England. Driving down a real steep set of switchbacks I stopped to let the brakes cool. A couple of Grizzly cubs walked across the road in front of us. I stopped him from getting out to take thier picture. Soon enough the mom came, but we were in a running big pickup. If we were on foot, he would not have been scared at all, might have tried to pet them, I would have been scared, because I know about bears, and what they can do.
> 
> And thats the difference, between those who know, personally and those who get thier knowledge from tv.:deadhorse:



like disney world deer-----


----------



## b1rdman

olyman said:


> like disney world deer-----



Black Bears around here are like disney world deer. Not many have any size to them and they're timid as hell. I wouldn't be surprised if the ran away when they saw their own shadow.

I read stories about black's in other parts of the country and it's hard to believe it's the same species. Sounds like they're a force to be reckoned with elsewhere.


----------



## ShoerFast

b1rdman said:


> Black Bears around here are like disney world deer. Not many have any size to them and they're timid as hell. I wouldn't be surprised if the ran away when they saw their own shadow.
> 
> I read stories about black's in other parts of the country and it's hard to believe it's the same species. Sounds like they're a force to be reckoned with elsewhere.



Believe there are more then a dozen subspecies of Black Bear.


----------



## SLVRTRC

Up here we have a good size bear population and if a bear is is so much being a nuisance on your property this can range from walking on your deck to clawing up your log home or snatching up your pet regardless of season or license it can be shot and killed this goes for wolves too and the are protected. If its being a threat shoot it. What do you think the did back in the day when everything was undeveloped and there were no campgrounds where you could visit the wilderness. They shot to kill. 


BTW bear taste awesome!


----------



## ShoerFast

A email story forwarded from an Alaskan friend.......

This took place in Soldotna not too many days ago.

Friends,

Have I got a story for you guys!

_"King season is over, and since i had a day off before silvers start, i
thought i would go for a walk! this occurred at 11:16 am this morning, just
2/10 of a mile from my house, ON OUR ROAD while walking my dogs (trying to
get in shape for hunting season, ironically!) for the record, this is in a
residential area-not back in the woods, no bowhunting, no stealth
occurring...

I heard a twig snap, and looked back...full on charge-a huge brownie, ears
back, head low and motorin' full speed! Came with zero warning; no woof, no
popping of the teeth, no standing up, nothing like what you think or see on
TV! It charged from less than 20 yards and was on me in about one-second!
Totally surreal-I just started shooting in the general direction, and praise
God that my second shot (or was it my
third?) Rolled him at 5 feet and he skidded to a stop 10 feet BEYOND where I
was shooting from-I actually sidestepped him and fell over backwards on the
last shot, and his momentum carried him to a stop past where I fired my
first shot!

It was a prehistoric old boar-no teeth, no fat-weighed between 900-1000 lbs
and took five men to DRAG it onto a tilt-bed trailer! Big bear-its paw
measured out at about a 9 1/2 footer!

never-ever-thought "it" would happen to me! its always some other smuck,
right? well, no bull- i am still high on adrenaline, with my gut in a knot.
feels like i did 10000 crunches without stopping!
almost puked for an hour after, had the burps and couldn't even stand up as
the troopers conducted their investigation! totally wiped me out- cant even
put that feeling into words, by far the most emotion i have ever felt at
once!

No doubt that God was with me, as I brought my Ruger .454 Casull (and some
"hot" 350 grain solids) just for the heck of it, and managed to draw and
snap shoot (pointed, never even aimed!) from the hip! Total luck shot!

Anybody want to write up the story? I have pretty good pictures!!!
Interesting stuff, but the real point of the article needs to focus on what
all local here agree on... ADF&G'S MIS-MANAGEMENT OF OUR LOCAL BEARS and how
they underestimate our population, wont allow a fair- chase hunt, and
consequently our kenai peninsula bears now have no predators, are way too
aggressive/bold, and numbers are skyrocketing!
Did you know that last week i had two chase my dog UNDER my daughters
trampoline 5 feet from our house! and last summer, we had 13 brownies in our
yard! we have bear "proof" garbage cans, no dog food outside, no bird
feeders, no fish carcasses/eggs...nothing to contribute to this situation!
anyway, as you can tell, i am fed up with it, and wont even hesitate to
shoot on sight the next brown bear that sets foot in my yard!!! game on!

All I can say is Praise God for my safety and for choosing to leave the wife
and kids at home on this walk! Got a charter tomorrow, so gonna TRY to get
some sleep now!_"

Keep our 2nd amendment Rights in order! 



talk to ya soon, -greg

Greg & Sherri Brush
EZ Limit Guide Service
PO Box 4278
Soldotna , AK 99669
907-262-6169
www.ezlimit.com


----------



## Austin1

Dam Big snubbie, 44? that bear does not look healthy the worst kind you can run into,you can see his ribs if he was filled out on salmon I bet he would go at least 200lbs more.Or .476 I am trying to guess the gun lol.
I bow hunt once in a wile in grizz country and being Canada I cant carry a heavy 6 gun with meYou can tell that bear is big by how long he is, if he was filled out that is a big old bear he would be bigger in his prime the pelt is thin also. Great pics though!
I just saw the 454 part don't know why I did not see it before?


----------



## BuddhaKat

HOLY S:censored:!

Yeah, I would have thrown up too, only from the other end.

And the wife wonders why I won't leave the house without my pistol, tho I'd have to admit, my 9 would probably only piss that bear off, at least till I got down far enough in the clip to get to the exploding rounds.


----------



## mtfallsmikey

We're starting to get overrun by bears...5-week hunting season for them this year...ran one out of my yard, came back twice. Didn't take him out, but threw a little 00 his way to scare him off.


----------



## deeker

Daaaaaaaymn that is a big bear.


----------



## sbhooper

Bears are like liberals. If you don't control them, they keep pushing the envelope. That was quick action on that monster. I don't think that I could have reacted that fast


----------



## Toddppm

I usually don't read these threads and just posted above about camping last weekend with the neighbors saying there's been a 150 lb bear around. Great just great, I guess I'll be packing some heat next time I go there.


----------



## deeker

Hoping we don't have a repeat of this from last spring.


----------



## isaaccarlson

We had a cougar around here for the last half of winter.....Not cool when the dog wants to go potty and you open the door and the dog tucks it's tail up to its belly and runs back into house.....Too many night I have gone out to tend rabbits and felt something watching me. My wife and I were out one night and saw it....we almost crapped our pants. Luckily it ran away. If I see it again it will be getting perforated with 12 ga. slugs. I will be getting a .45 to carry when outside as soon as I can afford it. I have had too many encounters with bears while in the woods. I like to AT LEAST have a good sized RAZOR SHARP knife on me. A knife is not as safe as a gun but in a real pinch it could save your life.


----------



## deeker

Anyone wish to re-read this thread and give me their opinions on it???

Almost 12 months after it happened.

I am kind of funny about zipping a body bag on another 12yr old. Or any other human after a bear attack.

Perhaps in the future we should have Oboma/greenpeace negotiate with the bear?


----------



## ShoerFast

deeker said:


> Anyone wish to re-read this thread and give me their opinions on it???
> 
> Almost 12 months after it happened.
> 
> I am kind of funny about zipping a body bag on another 12yr old. Or any other human after a bear attack.
> 
> Perhaps in the future we should have Oboma/greenpeace negotiate with the bear?



Same impression that I had reading it nearly a year ago. 

Seems 'rude' is a perspective. 

Sorry for your experience, never put a bear victim in a body-bag, not sure how that would effect me?

Have been bonded and carried $1,000,000 dollar insurance policies, guiding for hire in bear country. Stapling a proficiency evaluation with a .44 magnum to the paperwork. 

It puts the shoe in the other foot when just locking the car-doors and rolling up the windows is 'not' an option!


----------



## BlackOakTreeServ

CaseyForrest said:


> Dont get me wrong. Im not a PETA worshiping nutcase...
> 
> But if people were close enough to throw rocks at it....and there long enough to do so, they also had time to vacate the area and take anyone they loved with them.
> 
> No, they choose to kill the bear so they could "camp."
> 
> Its one thing if a wild animal is coming at you and you have no choice.....standing there close enough and long enough to chuck rocks at it makes you a candidate for the Darwin Award.



This guy is a PETA supporter...just read all his post's...another lib leading the blind!!!


----------



## RAMROD48

Well, I can offer some personal experience to this situation...

I raise pure bred show rabbits....they are in a barn....

Sunday morning I found a cage destroyed and a rabbit missing....

I then put out my game camera to see what was going on....got 36 pics of him, he came back 5 different times....

Destroyed and consumed 8 rabbits and did $1000 worth of cage damage...

Did i get mad?....Nope I got even....I posted up and waited for him the following night, he came back and was in the process of ripping the second door off the barn...

4- 1oz 12 gauge slugs into his head and neck....first 2 shots "killed' him...the last too were because the gun still had rounds left...

Was i mad? HELL yes I was mad!....

Was I concerned for my 4 year old daughter who goes out to the barn, by her self during the day while my 100% deaf in-laws baby sit her? YES!

Did I enjoy the kill? NO

Would I do it again? IN A HEARTBEAT!....(I might even put 5 rounds in the gun for fun....)

I have to laugh at those who make comments on things they have only THOUGHT about and not had to deal with...

300lb male
DEC instructed me of my right to protect my livestock...


----------



## BuddhaKat

woodsman44 said:


> This guy is a PETA supporter...just read all his post's...another lib leading the blind!!!


Casey is a lot of things, but I can promise you that a Lib isn't one of them.

Like everyone here, he occasionally has a different opinion than you or I might have.


----------



## tree md

RAMROD48 said:


> Well, I can offer some personal experience to this situation...
> 
> I raise pure bred show rabbits....they are in a barn....
> 
> Sunday morning I found a cage destroyed and a rabbit missing....
> 
> I then put out my game camera to see what was going on....got 36 pics of him, he came back 5 different times....
> 
> Destroyed and consumed 8 rabbits and did $1000 worth of cage damage...
> 
> Did i get mad?....Nope I got even....I posted up and waited for him the following night, he came back and was in the process of ripping the second door off the barn...
> 
> 4- 1oz 12 gauge slugs into his head and neck....first 2 shots "killed' him...the last too were because the gun still had rounds left...
> 
> Was i mad? HELL yes I was mad!....
> 
> Was I concerned for my 4 year old daughter who goes out to the barn, by her self during the day while my 100% deaf in-laws baby sit her? YES!
> 
> Did I enjoy the kill? NO
> 
> Would I do it again? IN A HEARTBEAT!....(I might even put 5 rounds in the gun for fun....)
> 
> I have to laugh at those who make comments on things they have only THOUGHT about and not had to deal with...
> 
> 300lb male
> DEC instructed me of my right to protect my livestock...



Good for you!

I won't argue or debate the morality of killing nuisance bears or other animals. I see things my way and won't waste the energy to type out any response. Whenever large predators become a threat to people then people have the right of way in my view.

I have seen a few black bears while hunting and hiking in the Blue Ridge Mountains of GA. Everyone I ever saw was swapping ends and making tracks to get away from me. Still, it will make the hair on the back of your neck stand up when you see a large one and I am in awe of how fast something that big can move and run.

Here we have problem Mountain Lions. Not a real big problem but we will hear of them killing dogs, domestic animals and livestock once or twice a year in my area. Last year I put a bid on a job for a guy who lives about 20 miles west of me. Very rural area that backs up to a lake shore and river that goes for miles. We get a lot of big cat sightings from this area. Anyway, my dad was along with me and he and the guy struck up a friendship and business relationship on some real estate my dad had for sale. The guy calls my dad one morning and was really shaken up. Something had killed two dogs of his and a pot bellied pig that the guy was keeping for a friend. It had jerked all three out of their collars. There was one dog spared. He had heard the commotion early that morning and after finding the collars and blood the guy was too afraid to go look for the animals.

The guy asked my dad what could have done that and my dad told him without blinking that it was a big cat. He told him to call the game warden and report it and sure enough the game warden confirmed that it was a big cat. We have one or two of these deals happen every year. Oklahoma law is a little murky on how to deal with problem cats. By law they are protected here but the law is superseded by another law that says that any animal that is immediately threatening livestock or domestic animals can be destroyed regardless of protection status. I certainly wouldn't hesitate to take one out that was threatening my dogs.

Shoe. Kind of funny, the Game warden here said that most livestock and pet attacks by big cats here is almost always an older cat that is on the decline. He said they start having trouble killing their normal prey and start going for easier prey like dogs on chains or animals in enclosures. I couldn't help but think of his words when I read about that bear you posted on having almost no teeth left in his head and seeing his ribs showing in the pic.


----------



## deeker

Hit you with some rep for having done the right thing. Good job.



RAMROD48 said:


> Well, I can offer some personal experience to this situation...
> 
> I raise pure bred show rabbits....they are in a barn....
> 
> Sunday morning I found a cage destroyed and a rabbit missing....
> 
> I then put out my game camera to see what was going on....got 36 pics of him, he came back 5 different times....
> 
> Destroyed and consumed 8 rabbits and did $1000 worth of cage damage...
> 
> Did i get mad?....Nope I got even....I posted up and waited for him the following night, he came back and was in the process of ripping the second door off the barn...
> 
> 4- 1oz 12 gauge slugs into his head and neck....first 2 shots "killed' him...the last too were because the gun still had rounds left...
> 
> Was i mad? HELL yes I was mad!....
> 
> Was I concerned for my 4 year old daughter who goes out to the barn, by her self during the day while my 100% deaf in-laws baby sit her? YES!
> 
> Did I enjoy the kill? NO
> 
> Would I do it again? IN A HEARTBEAT!....(I might even put 5 rounds in the gun for fun....)
> 
> I have to laugh at those who make comments on things they have only THOUGHT about and not had to deal with...
> 
> 300lb male
> DEC instructed me of my right to protect my livestock...


----------



## sbhooper

The mentality of someone who has issues with killing a nuisance bear is the same as that of a person who does not want to wage war correctly for fear of killing civilians. 

Do what has to be done and get on with it! Touchy, feely, crap attitudes is what has gotten this country into the downward swirl that it is in. If something needs killing, then KILL IT!


----------



## ShoerFast

tree md said:


> By law they are protected here but the law is superseded by another law that says that any animal that is immediately threatening livestock or domestic animals can be destroyed regardless of protection status. I certainly wouldn't hesitate to take one out that was threatening my dogs.
> .



Good post! ~snipped~ for space......

To me, there is no debate! None whats-however, period. 

The right to defend ourselves and our loved ones, and our and their property and belongings is so far a basic instinct, that it will blot any rule or law that dose not even conciser it. 

To me, those that think this is up for discussion or even is a debate, I find it preposterous. 

Liberals and the liberal interpretation of laws are a huge part of the problem, it is not part of a real man's instinct. An explanation by Uncle Ted follows!!!

Story........ (I would love to build a knife for this man! )

*Polar Bear Attack in Nunavut​
WARNING: The picture below are very gross

Bear Attack Statistics (USA & Canada) Link:

Guns not at ready before bear attack*Link:

A misunderstanding about firearms legislation may have contributed to the severity of a polar bear attack near Kimmirut on Tuesday.

The Inuit guide who was the victim of the brutal bear attack did not have a gun to defend himself.

I thought I was going to die

Kootoo Shaw says as far as he knew, he wasn't allowed to have a gun while he's working as a guide.

"We Inuit are not supposed to have any guns when we guide people from down south, that's why we didn't have a gun," he says.

However, that's not what the law says. While Nunavut's Wildlife Act says Inuit cannot use guns to hunt while they're guiding, they can carry guns for protection against bears.

Shaw says that isn't how he understood the rules.

The U.S. hunters also seemed to have misinterpreted national rules.

John Clark, one of three hunters with Shaw, says his group was told they could carry guns but that the bullets had to be removed when the gun was idle.

"The reason we left is because we knew there are more bears out there, they've been seen and there's no way of protecting yourself," he says. "Unless you can sleep with a loaded weapon, and even that is a little chancy."

The Canadian Firearms Act governs how firearms are stored, and stipulates when guns should be unloaded.

Hal Major, the district manager of the Canada Firearms Centre in Winnipeg, says hunting trips are one of several exceptions to the rule.

"The firearm does not have to be unloaded, it does not have to be rendered inoperable," he says.

Major says that if confusion exists about Canadian gun laws, it's possible that more public education about the rules and regulations is required.


Meanwhile, Kootoo Shaw remains in hospital, recovering from his injuries.

He required 300 stitches to his head and suffered numerous bites and slashes to his back and feet.

Pictures of Bear Attack :

































Just the facts, from Uncle Ted! Link:


----------



## mtfallsmikey

RAMROD48 said:


> Well, I can offer some personal experience to this situation...
> 
> I raise pure bred show rabbits....they are in a barn....
> 
> Sunday morning I found a cage destroyed and a rabbit missing....
> 
> I then put out my game camera to see what was going on....got 36 pics of him, he came back 5 different times....
> 
> Destroyed and consumed 8 rabbits and did $1000 worth of cage damage...
> 
> Did i get mad?....Nope I got even....I posted up and waited for him the following night, he came back and was in the process of ripping the second door off the barn...
> 
> 4- 1oz 12 gauge slugs into his head and neck....first 2 shots "killed' him...the last too were because the gun still had rounds left...
> 
> Was i mad? HELL yes I was mad!....
> 
> Was I concerned for my 4 year old daughter who goes out to the barn, by her self during the day while my 100% deaf in-laws baby sit her? YES!
> 
> Did I enjoy the kill? NO
> 
> Would I do it again? IN A HEARTBEAT!....(I might even put 5 rounds in the gun for fun....)
> 
> I have to laugh at those who make comments on things they have only THOUGHT about and not had to deal with...
> 
> 300lb male
> DEC instructed me of my right to protect my livestock...



Rep for ye...


----------



## Toddppm

This guy was a few doors down from my house last week





Should I tell him he's not allowed around here or move? Or where'd I put that clip.....


----------



## mmartone

I shot a doe a few years ago with my bow, tracked it a little ways and ran out of blood, it was early so I got back in my stand. It wasnt long and I heard some growling, screaming, blood curdling sounds, I knew what happened. I waited in the tree for the truck to show up and we talked to another friend of mine that was close, said he wasnt getting out of the tree till the truck showed up. We couldnt find the deer, went back to town and got the dog, found the deer with all the meat off one side, rump and tail missing. I couldnt believe a bear had got my deer, but better that I didnt find it or it could have got me too. We have no bear season and need one, but plenty of bears, they tear up stands, the tractor seat, feeders, etc.


----------



## CrappieKeith

ropensaddle said:


> I would not kill just to kill which is what I think you are saying, if so, I agree. I still say their numbers need controlled by harvest and hunting is a great solution. Overpopulation will cause all kinds of human animal conflict problems as well as food depletion issues which will amplify these problems and cause disease etc. I ate bear once did not care for it greatly could eat it again but chose not to hunt because I don't really want the meat. I do want venison and wild Turkey so I concentrate my skills as an archer toward them and would most likely only kill a bear if it became a necessity.



I agree whole heartedly. Since my eyes are in front...not on the side of my head I am a predator...the ultimate preditor. As such I have a responsibility to cull the herd in a quick and efficient manner.
Kill shots need to be practiced and only used when the "choice" is made to put an animal down.
there are times when an animal needs to be put down. We are not talking about everyone, but when singled out for a reason the shot should be made as humanely as possible.
I eat what I kill.
As mentioned hunters are the ultimate conservation tool.

I also belong to P.E.T.A.
People Eating Tastey Animals


This bear was a problem bear.It has been handled. There will always be clashes between humans and wildlife. As we spread out to populate areas it is the natural thing to push out wildlife...ergo it is imperative that we sportsmen & women provide lands for these animals to propigate.
Hence state and county parks or wildlife managment areas.
Many dollars from taxes go to our states to buy these lands.
Does a non hunter aide this process...no
There will be isolated instances and in some cases there may have been other alternatives....we may look back to learn from the past.
However to sit on a high horse and say you should have done this or that is a little late and does no one any good.

I'll say this ...hind sight is 20/20 and to ridicule after the fact is pure ignorant.


----------



## indiansprings

I would have capped the bear. I hunt, and believe in eating what I kill. There are instances like with this bear that there is no other option but destroying it before it harms a human being. The campground manager did the right thing. No wild animals life should be put before a humans.

Two years ago on July Fourth, my son came running in the house and said a huge whitetail buck had charged him on the tractor and tried to get up in the seat and gore him. I thought he was nuts, I went outside and it was trying to gore our stock dog. It tried to get in the corral with the horses. I got my rifle and back out, got on the Kawasaki Mule and tried to get closer, it charged the Mule, hitting it head on, then ran in a deep part of the creek, dunking it's head. It again come out of the creek and started to get after the dog again. One shot with a .300 Win dropped it, upon close examination you could not hardly see any hair on it's head because of thousands of ticks covering it's head and neck. I'm sure it had some kind of fever or disease that affected it's behavior. I hated to shoot it, but it was going to hurt something if left alone. Burned the carcass so it wouldn't spread disease.


----------



## CrappieKeith

Another thing...this was a business....campground..it's not like you just pick up and go to another section of land in another county.


----------



## polariso

woodsman44 said:


> This guy is a PETA supporter...just read all his post's...another lib leading the blind!!!



This was the tell all for me..

"The bear has more rights to the outdoors than you and I."

Definite peta supporter, whackjob!!


----------



## deeker

polariso said:


> This was the tell all for me..
> 
> "The bear has more rights to the outdoors than you and I."
> 
> Definite peta supporter, whackjob!!



Whackjob???

We just killed another 200lb plus black bear here in Utah. It would not leave the camp ground.

After it was hit with rubber buckshot several times. Over several days time. Not seeking food. Just wanted to be in the wrong place....


----------



## polariso

deeker said:


> Whackjob???
> 
> We just killed another 200lb plus black bear here in Utah. It would not leave the camp ground.
> 
> After it was hit with rubber buckshot several times. Over several days time. Not seeking food. Just wanted to be in the wrong place....


 I think your misunderstanding me.. I was quoting Casey Forest.


----------



## deeker

polariso said:


> I think your misunderstanding me.. I was quoting Casey Forest.



That is who it was aimed at. Even though he is a mod.


----------



## polariso

My favorite comment is that " Animals have feelings" they sure do.. And HUNGER tops the list.
People need to stop watching cartoons that portray animals as human like.
There is a Fisher Cat living out behind my house ..I wont be moving anytime soon so its the lead sleeping pill for the viscous little bugger!


----------



## stevohut

ShoerFast said:


> Good post! ~snipped~ for space......
> 
> To me, there is no debate! None whats-however, period.
> 
> The right to defend ourselves and our loved ones, and our and their property and belongings is so far a basic instinct, that it will blot any rule or law that dose not even conciser it.
> 
> To me, those that think this is up for discussion or even is a debate, I find it preposterous.
> 
> Liberals and the liberal interpretation of laws are a huge part of the problem, it is not part of a real man's instinct. An explanation by Uncle Ted follows!!!
> 
> Story........ (I would love to build a knife for this man! )
> 
> *Polar Bear Attack in Nunavut​
> WARNING: The picture below are very gross
> 
> Bear Attack Statistics (USA & Canada) Link:
> 
> Guns not at ready before bear attack*Link:
> 
> A misunderstanding about firearms legislation may have contributed to the severity of a polar bear attack near Kimmirut on Tuesday.
> 
> The Inuit guide who was the victim of the brutal bear attack did not have a gun to defend himself.
> 
> I thought I was going to die
> 
> Kootoo Shaw says as far as he knew, he wasn't allowed to have a gun while he's working as a guide.
> 
> "We Inuit are not supposed to have any guns when we guide people from down south, that's why we didn't have a gun," he says.
> 
> However, that's not what the law says. While Nunavut's Wildlife Act says Inuit cannot use guns to hunt while they're guiding, they can carry guns for protection against bears.
> 
> Shaw says that isn't how he understood the rules.
> 
> The U.S. hunters also seemed to have misinterpreted national rules.
> 
> John Clark, one of three hunters with Shaw, says his group was told they could carry guns but that the bullets had to be removed when the gun was idle.
> 
> "The reason we left is because we knew there are more bears out there, they've been seen and there's no way of protecting yourself," he says. "Unless you can sleep with a loaded weapon, and even that is a little chancy."
> 
> The Canadian Firearms Act governs how firearms are stored, and stipulates when guns should be unloaded.
> 
> Hal Major, the district manager of the Canada Firearms Centre in Winnipeg, says hunting trips are one of several exceptions to the rule.
> 
> "The firearm does not have to be unloaded, it does not have to be rendered inoperable," he says.
> 
> Major says that if confusion exists about Canadian gun laws, it's possible that more public education about the rules and regulations is required.
> 
> 
> Meanwhile, Kootoo Shaw remains in hospital, recovering from his injuries.
> 
> He required 300 stitches to his head and suffered numerous bites and slashes to his back and feet.
> 
> Pictures of Bear Attack :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just the facts, from Uncle Ted! Link:



The inuit know better then that. They have lived from the fruits of polar bears for hundreds of years. He knows he should have taken a weapon, they know what those animals are capable of. Even if no gun, bear bangers, bear spray, air horn, anybody can carry those at anytime no law against that.


----------



## deeker

We now have ( Payson Lakes campground, Utah ) empty. All 66 sites, because of three or four bears. It is now up to the bears, leave or get trapped and moved or shot. Simple.

Utah has killed 3 bears already this year for "breaking and entering" campsites, more than once....first time the get invited to leave with rubber buckshot. The next time, it is NOT rubber buckshot.


----------



## Rowan Gliori

ropensaddle said:


> I can agree here, outdoors men are why we have habitat left, our license fees have done more in 2 years than peta has since conception of their organization but please don't take my word on it. Theodore Roosevelt and outdoor sportsmen combined with game and fish and the wild turkey federation have set land aside for all our enjoyment and for that I am happy.



Indeed- if it wasn't for those of us who fish and hunt there'd be no wilderness, or wildlife, left for those who try to stop us in the name of "conservation" (a concept no-one at the likes of PETA even understands) to appreciate.


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## Rowan Gliori

ShoerFast said:


> <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/LZnsL7-UdGc&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/LZnsL7-UdGc&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
> 
> This is what a legal bear hunt looks like,,,,and an outlaw bear.
> 
> Alaska Fish and Game ruled this as the thing to do. The Guide did not have to like it, he did do his job.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZnsL7-UdGc



"This video has been removed by the user"... Awwww boo. Hence the java instead of an image I guess...


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## Rowan Gliori

ShoerFast said:


> Good post! ~snipped~ for space......
> 
> To me, there is no debate! None whats-however, period.
> 
> The right to defend ourselves and our loved ones, and our and their property and belongings is so far a basic instinct, that it will blot any rule or law that dose not even conciser it.
> 
> To me, those that think this is up for discussion or even is a debate, I find it preposterous.
> 
> Liberals and the liberal interpretation of laws are a huge part of the problem, it is not part of a real man's instinct. An explanation by Uncle Ted follows!!!
> 
> Story........ (I would love to build a knife for this man! )
> 
> *Polar Bear Attack in Nunavut​
> WARNING: The picture below are very gross
> 
> Bear Attack Statistics (USA & Canada) Link:
> 
> Guns not at ready before bear attack*Link:
> 
> A misunderstanding about firearms legislation may have contributed to the severity of a polar bear attack near Kimmirut on Tuesday.
> 
> The Inuit guide who was the victim of the brutal bear attack did not have a gun to defend himself.
> 
> I thought I was going to die
> 
> Kootoo Shaw says as far as he knew, he wasn't allowed to have a gun while he's working as a guide.
> 
> "We Inuit are not supposed to have any guns when we guide people from down south, that's why we didn't have a gun," he says.
> 
> However, that's not what the law says. While Nunavut's Wildlife Act says Inuit cannot use guns to hunt while they're guiding, they can carry guns for protection against bears.
> 
> Shaw says that isn't how he understood the rules.
> 
> The U.S. hunters also seemed to have misinterpreted national rules.
> 
> John Clark, one of three hunters with Shaw, says his group was told they could carry guns but that the bullets had to be removed when the gun was idle.
> 
> "The reason we left is because we knew there are more bears out there, they've been seen and there's no way of protecting yourself," he says. "Unless you can sleep with a loaded weapon, and even that is a little chancy."
> 
> The Canadian Firearms Act governs how firearms are stored, and stipulates when guns should be unloaded.
> 
> Hal Major, the district manager of the Canada Firearms Centre in Winnipeg, says hunting trips are one of several exceptions to the rule.
> 
> "The firearm does not have to be unloaded, it does not have to be rendered inoperable," he says.
> 
> Major says that if confusion exists about Canadian gun laws, it's possible that more public education about the rules and regulations is required.
> 
> 
> Meanwhile, Kootoo Shaw remains in hospital, recovering from his injuries.
> 
> He required 300 stitches to his head and suffered numerous bites and slashes to his back and feet.
> 
> Pictures of Bear Attack :
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> Just the facts, from Uncle Ted! Link:



Polar bears are actually the only animals on earth that routinely prey on humans, so to venture into their territory without the means to defend yourself against them, and a full awareness of the danger you place yourself in, is suicidally inept. Any Innuit guide would feel naked without some serious ironmongery! 
They are magnificent animals, but I would have no qualms about shooting one if it was charging or stalking me. And anyway, that fur is wonderful winging material for salmon flies! So it wouldn't go to waste...


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## PasoRoblesJimmy

deeker said:


> Your "cidiot" is now mine. All mine. And only mine.



Thanks for starting such a great thread. It blows the cover of the closet liberals who don't live in the real world. 

I love the term "cidiot".

We live in the Santa Lucia Mountain Range about 15 miles from the nearest small town. Hence, we see lots of all kinds of big and small wildlife on a daily basis. Most encounters with wildlife are interesting and enjoyable. A few have been scary and hair raising.

Many of the biggest problems in my rural area are caused by "City Slickers" from Los Angeles which is located 200 miles south of here.

Farmers, ranchers and others in our rural area call these foreigners "L.Aliens" because they don't live in the real world.

"Cidiot" is a great label because most of these City Slickers from L.A. (or helL.A.) and elsewhere have been thoroughly duped, indoctrinated and brainwashed by the lying, Half-wit Douche Bags of Hollywood.

The plastic, make-believe, fraud and deceit culture of Hollywood is destroying America!!!!


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