# tieing in when blocking down



## Adkpk (Sep 30, 2009)

How does one tie in when blocking down a spar? I assume you just give your life line a wrap around the spar and set your lanyard above it?


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## Tree Pig (Sep 30, 2009)

That or two lanyards, My wire core flip and a buck strap with a choke around the tree.


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## md_tree_dood (Sep 30, 2009)

You go it, always keep your lanyard above your climbing line when you are making a cut. I like to gauge how big of pieces I'm going to be lowering or bombing and leave a stub every now and then to put my climbing line over, which makes descent alot easier. If you are really uncomfortable doing this you can choke the tree with your lanyard or your rope, this is a pain after you make a cut and need to descend though. It's also not particularly safe as you'll have to undo the choke in order to descend which could be problematic if you are injured during the process.


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## TDunk (Oct 1, 2009)

I prefer to "choke" the tree with my climbing line then have a second lanyard around the tree. That way (as md-tree pointed out) if something happens to you up there, you just have to un-hook your lanyard and your ready to descend out of the tree. There are a lot of different ways that this procedure can be done.


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## tree MDS (Oct 1, 2009)

Lanyard on top, climbing line below here.

The hitchclimber I have now doesnt work as well for this as my old saddle and system, with that I just tied into the d dings with two overhands and could run a real short tail to the good old taughtline, getting some tention on the butt strap, so all was more comfy. I miss that...


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## TDunk (Oct 1, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> Sounds like what I do. I choke the tree with my climbing line using a running bowline tied about ten feet from the end of my climbing line. I use this ten feet of tail to aid in pulling my running bowline down after using my climbing line to descend to the position of my next cut. My Vt remains on the single line and a figure eight is about a foot below it clipped into a delta on my left leg strap. Descending takes two hands...one on the Vt...and one brake hand below the figure eight. The Vt locks up good on the single line but is not good for descending without having the figure eight take most of the load.



That a pretty good idea, sounds like it would be a little quicker then what i'm doing.


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## lego1970 (Oct 1, 2009)

Same here, I put my climbing line well below my lanyard. Never really have tried choking the line except on about 2 or 3 occasion and one time on a slick Sycamore, however most trees I do are not that big and a little stub or buldge is seldom more then 5 to 10 below. I always figured if I accidently cut the lanyard I might take a heck of a ride, get a little bruised, and have to change my underwear, but otherwise live to finish the job. I'll have to look into that choking part. I'm probably not doing right. The couple occasions when I've choked the tree, I used a flat sling choked, then wrapped several times like a timber hitch.


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## TDunk (Oct 1, 2009)

lego1970 said:


> Same here, I put my climbing line well below my lanyard. Never really have tried choking the line except on about 2 or 3 occasion and one time on a slick Sycamore, however most trees I do are not that big and a little stub or buldge is seldom more then 5 to 10 below. I always figured if I accidently cut the lanyard I might take a heck of a ride, get a little bruised, and have to change my underwear, but otherwise live to finish the job. I'll have to look into that choking part. I'm probably not doing right. The couple occasions when I've choked the tree, I used a flat sling choked, then wrapped several times like a timber hitch.



I use to do that also, but found it quicker to just take an extra wrap around the tree with the climbing line, then use a carabiner to hook it back to the standing part of the line and have my friction hitch connected to my center D, that way i can get out of the tree asap if needed. It also works good for leaning trees to help keep you pulled to one side or the other.


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## lego1970 (Oct 1, 2009)

TDunk said:


> I use to do that also, but found it quicker to just take an extra wrap around the tree with the climbing line, then use a carabiner to hook it back to the standing part of the line and have my friction hitch connected to my center D, that way i can get out of the tree asap if needed. It also works good for leaning trees to help keep you pulled to one side or the other.



I'll have to play around with that next time I climb. Thanks!


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## outofmytree (Oct 4, 2009)

One wrap then a dfl around the lifeline. It chokes even the smoothest trees like Cocos palms and if you need to bail in a hurry my VT works equally well srt as drt. I prefer a wire core lanyard above the choked line rather than a rope lanyard. Perhaps I am paranoid...


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## IcePick (Oct 4, 2009)

*...*

I think the most important aspect of blocking down large wood is having a comfortable pair of sharp spikes. With that being said, I usually try to leave small stubs where I can to put my climbing line around in case I have to descend. I also put my lanyard above my climbing line. Lastly, one needs to have an attitude that nothing is going to go wrong, mind over matter, it has worked for me and I have had not even one close call of gaffing out or getting hurt in the ten or so years I've been a climber (knock on wood).


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## Adkpk (Oct 4, 2009)

There are no stubs left. It's a 30' sweet gum spar. I broke the strap on my pole climbing spurs when I was starting out to remove the top. I took out the branches spurless (wasn't much left of it after a storm blew it out). Rather than buy a new strap I went for tree climbing spurs (longer gaff). Unfortunately Sherrill has them on backorder. I was going to do the td on Monday now...
I am sure I'll post when its done. Thanks for all the help.


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## RacerX (Oct 4, 2009)

Some great information in this thread. Does anyone have any photo's of their blocking down setup?


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## lego1970 (Oct 4, 2009)

Adkpk said:


> There are no stubs left. It's a 30' sweet gum spar. I broke the strap on my pole climbing spurs when I was starting out to remove the top. I took out the branches spurless (wasn't much left of it after a storm blew it out). Rather than buy a new strap I went for tree climbing spurs (longer gaff). Unfortunately Sherrill has them on backorder. I was going to do the td on Monday now...
> I am sure I'll post when its done. Thanks for all the help.




If your in no hurry then I'd just wait for the new gaffs, but if you have to get it down pronto, I'm sure you could rig a strap on there or use a roll of duct tape to fasten the gaff on your boot just to finish the job.


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## clearance (Oct 4, 2009)

Steelcore lanyard around the tree, thats all, completly allowed here. Every tree I have ever blocked down I did with one steelcore, sometimes tied into another tree, for certain reasons.


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## Bearcreek (Oct 4, 2009)

Adkpk said:


> There are no stubs left. It's a 30' sweet gum spar. I broke the strap on my pole climbing spurs when I was starting out to remove the top. I took out the branches spurless (wasn't much left of it after a storm blew it out). Rather than buy a new strap I went for tree climbing spurs (longer gaff). Unfortunately Sherrill has them on backorder. I was going to do the td on Monday now...
> I am sure I'll post when its done. Thanks for all the help.



Have you used tree spikes before? The Buckingham one's that I used to use were way too long and unstable for my taste.


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## SINGLE-JACK (Oct 4, 2009)

Adkpk said:


> There are no stubs left. It's a 30' sweet gum spar. *I broke the strap on my pole climbing spurs* when I was starting out to remove the top. I took out the branches spurless (wasn't much left of it after a storm blew it out). Rather than buy a new strap I went for tree climbing spurs (longer gaff). Unfortunately Sherrill has them on backorder. I was going to do the td on Monday now...
> I am sure I'll post when its done. Thanks for all the help.





lego1970 said:


> If your in no hurry then I'd just wait for the new gaffs, but if you have to get it down pronto, I'm sure you could rig a strap on there or use a *roll of duct tape (???) *to fasten the gaff on your boot just to finish the job.



A big dog collar (maybe two buckled together) will work in a pinch - you can buy them everywhere, even the grocery store - they're tough as hell and gotta be safer than duct tape - but if you can, like lego said, waiting's better.


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## lego1970 (Oct 4, 2009)

Never, ever, underestimate the power of duct tape:greenchainsaw: just kidding. 

It would be a last resort and look pretty silly in front of the customer, but I'm sure with several wraps it would hold the gaffs on for taking down a 35' trunk.


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## Bearcreek (Oct 4, 2009)

I had a friend tell me about one time when he was younger and his dad wanted to take a limb down that was over their garage. The ladder they were using was too short. The solution, duct tape two ladders together, set up on the garage roof and lean against the limb. Believe it or not, he lived to tell the story.


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## SINGLE-JACK (Oct 4, 2009)

lego1970 said:


> Never, ever, underestimate the power of duct tape:greenchainsaw: just kidding.
> 
> It would be a last resort and look pretty silly in front of the customer, but I'm sure with several wraps it would hold the gaffs on for taking down a 35' trunk.


:agree2:
*You're right, of course!!! *- but, having duct taped nearly everything, getting that 'goo' off your boots would be a PITA.


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## lego1970 (Oct 4, 2009)

I hear ya, probably not a great suggestion.


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## SINGLE-JACK (Oct 4, 2009)

Bearcreek said:


> Have you used tree spikes before? The Buckingham one's that I used to use were way too long and unstable for my taste.



Pole spikes are OK for takedowns on thin healthy spars. But, if you climbing thick spongy bark and sapwood, long tree spikes are really necessary. I agree, though, they really do take some serious 'gettin'-use-to'.

If you've got wads of money you can keep your array of varing length gaffs in a crushed velvet lined mahogany case to match every job - ask anyone.

* ... JUST KIDDING *


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## Adkpk (Oct 5, 2009)

lego1970 said:


> If your in no hurry then I'd just wait for the new gaffs, but if you have to get it down pronto, I'm sure you could rig a strap on there or use a roll of duct tape to fasten the gaff on your boot just to finish the job.



Ya there's plenty of time. Of course their anxious to see it go but they'll wait for the right tool for the job. It's lining the woods in the back yard. It's a perfect spar to do a first blocking down job on. I'll try to get a pic.


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## SINGLE-JACK (Oct 5, 2009)

SINGLE-JACK said:


> *A big dog collar (maybe two buckled together) will work in a pinch - you can buy them everywhere, even the grocery store - they're tough as hell ... *



If you are pressed to finish the job, I'd seriously consider the "big dog collar" idea. I've put them on an old pair of pole spikes because I use them so rarely. However, I replaced the old leather straps on my tree gaffs with new Buckingham ring straps because I use them more often.

Note: just make sure the buckles are not those cheap 'pot-metal' (zinc) type. Get the heavy brass or steel buckles. Good big dog collars take a bigger load than your spikes are likely to give them. Just one possible solution - be safe.


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## clearance (Oct 5, 2009)

Bearcreek said:


> Have you used tree spikes before? The Buckingham one's that I used to use were way too long and unstable for my taste.



I use the longest straight Buckinghams, for years, climbed thousands of trees with them. You mustn't have them done up right, or maybe your boots are inadequate. I


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## Bermie (Oct 6, 2009)

pretty much what most people have said...

Lanyard on top...I use a steel core for chunking a spar...slightly more resistance that a rope lanyard. I nicked my rope one once...that was enough, steel core for ever more on a spar!

For the choke on my lifeline, make sure both ends reach the ground, (obviously depends on the size of the tree!) a butterfly mid line knot, clip a biner in it then put the other side of the line in the biner, friction hitch and fig 8 on that side...its ok for the final descent or as an emergency bailout but a bit of a pain to re rig if you have to go down several times...

But works like a charm to pull the whole lot down from the ground.


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## Adkpk (Oct 6, 2009)

Bermie said:


> a butterfly mid line knot, clip a biner in it then put the other side of the line in the biner, friction hitch and fig 8 on that side...its ok for the final descent or as an emergency bailout but a bit of a pain to re rig if you have to go down several times...
> 
> But works like a charm to pull the whole lot down from the ground.



Yes I had this set up in mind thanks for the reassurance. 

I am also working on splicing some three strand with some rings. Wrapping that and using like a friction saver. Just I got the rings and they are steel and real heavy I think I want to exchange for alum. 

Here's the tree minus all above the line. (Not below for treeco )


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## outofmytree (Oct 6, 2009)

> Some great information in this thread. Does anyone have any photo's of their blocking down setup?



This how I tie in. Obviously the flipline is on when the lifeline is tied I just took the photo's in this order to make it clear.
















The friction hitch I use is very short so there is very little slack in the line once it is drawn up close.


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## 1I'dJak (Oct 7, 2009)

I used to use just one flipline like clearance mentions but have gravitated to the flipline plus runningboline/vt hitch...I like the added security especially since a good deal of my trees are red alder which are pretty smooth, often lean out pretty good and often I can hear the stem cracking as I'm blocking down the bigger chunks


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## treesandsurf (Oct 7, 2009)

I usually tie a running bowline below the block and then lanyard above. I recently used a grigri on the single line and works pretty smooth. 

jp


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## SINGLE-JACK (Oct 7, 2009)

Adkpk said:


> ...
> 
> I am also *working on splicing some three strand with some rings*. Wrapping that and using like a friction saver. Just I got the rings and they are steel and real heavy I think I want to exchange for alum.
> 
> ...



Bob -

When you're done, would you post some pix of your spliced 3 strand w/rings, please? Been thinking of doing the same and would like to pick up some tips. I've spliced some laid rope without rings for other rigging chores.

thanks, Jack


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## clearance (Oct 7, 2009)

1I'dJak said:


> I used to use just one flipline like clearance mentions but have gravitated to the flipline plus runningboline/vt hitch...I like the added security especially since a good deal of my trees are red alder which are pretty smooth, often lean out pretty good and often I can hear the stem cracking as I'm blocking down the bigger chunks



I hear ya, them alders can be slippery, specially when it wet. I wrap my steecore around it twice, choke it kind of deal.


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## dave066 (Oct 7, 2009)

Adkpk said:


> Ya there's plenty of time. Of course their anxious to see it go but they'll wait for the right tool for the job. It's lining the woods in the back yard. It's a perfect spar to do a first blocking down job on. I'll try to get a pic.



farmers co-op or tractor supply sells leather straps and hammered revets to set them, $15.00 to $25.00 and with last a long time.


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## Bermie (Oct 8, 2009)

Adkpk said:


> Yes I had this set up in mind thanks for the reassurance.



I use this method for coconuts, beats spiking back down a wobbly stem...Otis elevator all the way down, quick yank and the whole lot comes down just fine!
I do not like descending on spikes...I'd much rather rappell, ya, fine, LAZY..I don't care!


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## SINGLE-JACK (Oct 8, 2009)

Adkpk said:


> How does one *tie in when blocking down *a spar? I assume you just give your life line a wrap around the spar and set your lanyard above it?



Here's a really good read (link below) about the whole subject with many good pix for _"tie in when blocking down"._ It covers most of what has been offered in this thread plus a lot more. 

One very interesting thing, I didn't find in this tread, is setting the *life line choker around the 'far-side'* of the tree when doing the back-cut. This is a great idea and gives more room for the tresse when working close to the spar. Photograph 33, page 43 shows a good view of the rig set-up for the back-cut.


*Safe working methods with top-handled chainsaws*
- Prepared by *Treevolution *for the Health and Safety Executive (UK)

http://www.hse.gov.uk/research/crr_pdf/2001/crr01402.pdf


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## davej (Oct 8, 2009)

*Article*

See the tie-in article over on ********...

www (dot) ******** (dot) com/pdf/tie-in.pdf


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## Adkpk (Oct 8, 2009)

SINGLE-JACK said:


> Bob -
> 
> When you're done, would you post some pix of your spliced 3 strand w/rings, please? Been thinking of doing the same and would like to pick up some tips. I've spliced some laid rope without rings for other rigging chores.
> 
> thanks, Jack



I'm going to get another ring and some tenex which I spliced before and use it for an adjusting prusik. Or maybe spend the $42 for the pre-spliced prusik and ring.


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## Bermie (Oct 9, 2009)

SINGLE-JACK said:


> Here's a really good read (link below) about the whole subject with many good pix for _"tie in when blocking down"._ It covers most of what has been offered in this thread plus a lot more.
> 
> One very interesting thing, I didn't find in this tread, is setting the *life line choker around the 'far-side'* of the tree when doing the back-cut. This is a great idea and gives more room for the tresse when working close to the spar. Photograph 33, page 43 shows a good view of the rig set-up for the back-cut.
> 
> ...



Ha, these guys are the best...I've trained with them, had them out to Bda too, and they came after our bad hurricane to train the Government guys in major storm cleanup, solid as a rock for sure!


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## Adkpk (Oct 10, 2009)

SINGLE-JACK said:


> *Safe working methods with top-handled chainsaws*
> - Prepared by *Treevolution *for the Health and Safety Executive (UK)
> 
> http://www.hse.gov.uk/research/crr_pdf/2001/crr01402.pdf



Saved that one, will try to read it this weekend. Thanks Jack.


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## canopyboy (Oct 11, 2009)

Reading through that publication resulted in one of those slap yourself upside the head moments. I've used my slings for just about everything. Even attached them as foot loops to an ascender. But somehow I never thought to choke them to the tree as a foot loop when you need that extra little bit for positioning. 

D'oh.


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## Blakesmaster (Oct 11, 2009)

canopyboy said:


> Reading through that publication resulted in one of those slap yourself upside the head moments. I've used my slings for just about everything. Even attached them as foot loops to an ascender. But somehow I never thought to choke them to the tree as a foot loop when you need that extra little bit for positioning.
> 
> D'oh.



I used one yesterday to attach a piece of wood to my belt. Slings are the bomb!


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## SINGLE-JACK (Oct 11, 2009)

canopyboy said:


> Reading through that publication resulted in one of those slap yourself upside the head moments. I've used my slings for just about everything. Even attached them as foot loops to an ascender. But somehow I never thought to choke them to the tree as a foot loop when you need that extra little bit for positioning.
> 
> D'oh.





Blakesmaster said:


> I used one yesterday to attach a piece of wood to my belt. Slings are the bomb!


:agree2:
*YEAH! Endless loop slings are great! *The sling foot loop around a stem is shown in _The Tree Climbers Companion _(Jepson, p63). A sling foot loop around a limb is shown in Sherrill's catalog (p59) Also, Moss did an interesting video back in July, _Alternate Ascent Technique_ (link below). At 2:06 you'll see he's using a web sling foot loop around a stem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzkU8zYhjx8&feature=channel

Even improvise a chest harness:










The possibilities are endless (no pun intended)!


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## canopyboy (Oct 12, 2009)

Yup, like I said, I've used them for just about everything from redirects to rigging for speedlines to footstraps for my ascenders to something to hold on to the 5-yr old's fourwheeler with to keep her off the trees. Somehow I just missed the foothold on the stem thing......

Always something, isn't it?


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## Adkpk (Oct 19, 2009)

*update*



Adkpk said:


> There are no stubs left. It's a 30' sweet gum spar. I broke the strap on my pole climbing spurs when I was starting out to remove the top. I took out the branches spurless (wasn't much left of it after a storm blew it out). Rather than buy a new strap I went for tree climbing spurs (longer gaff). Unfortunately Sherrill has them on backorder. I was going to do the td on Monday now...
> I am sure I'll post when its done. Thanks for all the help.



Sent the climbers back. Tried them this weekend and am seeing that I don't need "tree climbing spikes". I'll do fine with my pole spikes and some new straps. Any day now, A n y d a y.


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