# 36" too much for stock 441?



## Stihl Alive (Nov 16, 2008)

I run a 25" on it now. I probably need a longer bar 1 out of every 10 jobs. (out of which 9/10 could still be done with the 25") I was considering getting a 36" just for bucking up big trunks to make it a little easier/faster. One Stihl dealer is trying to talk me into a 660, which I clearly don't need. Then I went to an "elite" dealer about 100 miles away and he told me the 441 had plenty of :censored: to run a 36" bar. 

any suggestions?


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## JTinaTree (Nov 16, 2008)

A 441 would be way slow pulling that kind of bar, 441/440's perform best with 20-25in range max.. I have got a 32in bar on my 660 and would not even think about putting a bar longer than that on my 440....


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## B-Edwards (Nov 16, 2008)

When I first got in the tree biz on my own I had an 026 that I would change the sprocket on and put a 36 inch bar and chain on it simply because I couldnt afford to buy a dedicated saw for that size bar. Of course it wasnt made to use that kind of bar on but it worked for me because I operated it and didnt abuse it as some would when it isnt their saw. I didnt use it that way a great deal and it worked fine until I could buy a bigger saw. I still have guys telling me I dont need a saw with a 36 inch bar and chain, I say they are fos ,guess they havent cut stuff as big as we (dedicated tree guys) have. As for your question, I think it will work but it seems a tad small for that size bar and chain to run day in day out.


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## huskystihl (Nov 16, 2008)

Stihl Alive said:


> I run a 25" on it now. I probably need a longer bar 1 out of every 10 jobs. (out of which 9/10 could still be done with the 25") I was considering getting a 36" just for bucking up big trunks to make it a little easier/faster. One Stihl dealer is trying to talk me into a 660, which I clearly don't need. Then I went to an "elite" dealer about 100 miles away and he told me the 441 had plenty of :censored: to run a 36" bar.
> 
> any suggestions?



I RAN A 044 FOR YEARS WITH A 32 AND IT PULLED IT FINE.I THINK A 32 WOULD BE OK FOR THE SAW BUT I THINK a 36 WOULD PROBABLY BE A BIT MUCH.


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## JTinaTree (Nov 16, 2008)

I must be a tad bit more picky than most, My 440 performs so well with a 20" on it, I don't think I will ever change it.. That why I bought a 660 for the long bars.....it pulls like there is no tommorrow brother.


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## Stihl Alive (Nov 16, 2008)

I think I'll go with a 32". Like I said, it won't be used very much. I'd just like to have the extra length when I need it. 

doesn't a full skip chain require more power to cut? Should I keep a full chisel for the 32"?

I'd love to get a 660, and I can get a new one for half price right now, but I just want it. I dont' think I'll ever "need" it. 

thanks for the input.


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## Rftreeman (Nov 16, 2008)

you can use a 32 with it, I was using a 32" on a 046 when I cut my leg, you just might have to take it a bit slower than with the shorter bars.


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## Mike Van (Nov 16, 2008)

I put a 28" on my old 041 when I need it, you can't lean on it, but it gets 4' dia. maple, oak & ash done. I use the full comp chisel chain, I think the skip is recomended for longer bars, but I've never used it.


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## huskystihl (Nov 16, 2008)

Stihl Alive said:


> I think I'll go with a 32". Like I said, it won't be used very much. I'd just like to have the extra length when I need it.
> 
> doesn't a full skip chain require more power to cut? Should I keep a full chisel for the 32"?
> 
> ...



i've never ran full skip for the simple it dulls faster. Half the cutters doin the same amount of cutting.


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## HolmenTree (Nov 16, 2008)

I have two like new 36" Oregon .050 bars hanging in my shop haven't used them for years, even on the 066 they just seem awkward and easy to put into the dirt. The Stihl 090AV-36" no problem but like the 36" bars never use it. On my 066 I run 28" with skip chain and thats all the bar I need , have taken alot of 36"b.d.h. trees down and 28" works fine. On my Husky 372XP -22", Stihl 044-18" . My business is almost entirely urban tree removal.


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## oharatree (Nov 16, 2008)

Yeah, 36 inch is too long. But, you gotta do what you gotta do with the tools you got. Put the 36 incher on it and take it slow, as i am sure the saw will only do it at a snails pace. Do it slow, crank up the oiler, and dont make a habit of it. A 660 would be far better suited for that but if your workload doesnt require purchasing a 660, than guess what?.....441 it is.


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## sawinredneck (Nov 16, 2008)

I would think 32" with skip would be slow, but alright, you are in hardwood country. I have seen a stock 046 running a 32" in dry Oak and it was slow!! I run a 32" on my modded 046 and it's still not as fast as I would like, but better.
That give you an idea of what you are in for?


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## PA Plumber (Nov 16, 2008)

Have ran a 32" with skip on the 441. Red Oak rounds over 40" in diameter. Could even lean on her a little.
Not quite as fast as running a 24 incher with full comp., but did a pretty nice job. 

I do think the 441 would pull a 32" full comp, as long a the operator was light on the touch.


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## forestryworks (Nov 16, 2008)

sharp chain and operator technique will help it alot


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## sawinredneck (Nov 16, 2008)

My bad, good call PA!!! I forgot to add that the stock 046 as well as mine both ran full comp, that makes a difference!


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## deeker (Nov 16, 2008)

forestryworks said:


> sharp chain and operator technique will help it alot



+1


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## juststumps (Nov 16, 2008)

i don't know why you would want to change the bar and chain ??? the cut up to 36" wood, if your running a 25" bar.... you'll waste more time, changing the set up.... 

put the saw at 12 o clock on the log,,dog in,,, cut from 12 towards 9, stop at 7 o'clock... back the saw down from 12, towards 3 o'clock, finish the cut.....jeeze, you can cut up to 50" witha 25" bar, if you think a little... JMHO


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## Stihl Alive (Nov 16, 2008)

juststumps said:


> i don't know why you would want to change the bar and chain ??? the cut up to 36" wood, if your running a 25" bar.... you'll waste more time, changing the set up....
> 
> put the saw at 12 o clock on the log,,dog in,,, cut from 12 towards 9, stop at 7 o'clock... back the saw down from 12, towards 3 o'clock, finish the cut.....jeeze, you can cut up to 50" witha 25" bar, if you think a little... JMHO




I think I'm going with this advice. Maybe I'm just trying to get more stuff for no reason. If I encounter a situation where I truly need a longer bar, then I'll consider the purchase. I'll keep going with what I have now: 200T 12", 290 16" 441 25"

It's really really hard to resist getting a brand new 660 at half price though. But I still can't justify it right now. 

thanks for all the advice guys


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## HolmenTree (Nov 16, 2008)

Stihl Alive said:


> it's really really hard to resist getting a brand new 660 at half price though. But I still can't justify it right now.
> 
> thanks for all the advice guys



If you can get a new 660 for 1/2 price then get it!!! you may never have the chance again. Plus with the 660 in your lineup with a 28" or 32" you will have all the saw power you'll need.


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## Stihl Alive (Nov 17, 2008)

HolmenTree said:


> If you can get a new 660 for 1/2 price then get it!!! you may never have the chance again. Plus with the 660 in your lineup with a 28" or 32" you will have all the saw power you'll need.



well, I've only got $2k to work with, I'm supposed to buy a 20' dual axle trailer for $1500 this Thursday, which wouldn't leave me enough for half the saw. If I buy the saw, I'll ge the deal of a lifetime (which will never happen again I'm sure) but then I'm still stuck with a 5X10 trailer. But the trailer WILL still be there is I can afford it in the next few months. I'm torn.


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## newb (Nov 17, 2008)

I have a 25" set up on my 66 with a 32" if I need it. I couldn't imagine running a 32" or bigger on a 44. Just me, I like more saw than chain. Pete


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## chevytaHOE5674 (Nov 17, 2008)

I hate how slow my modded 460 is with 32" full comp chain. I get used to how nice the 066 or 084 cut with long bars, and when i am forced to use the 32" with the 460 i cringe. It does get the job done, but it isn't a fun process.


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## ShoerFast (Nov 17, 2008)

Why can't a 441 pull 36" of RSKL-F ?

It dose not have to be fast, it needs to get a job done. 

It has been a couple years since I posted a vid of a 310 pulling a 36" bar in Ponderosia Pine, it was not fast, but it got the job done. 

Running .020 DG's will help, rocking the bar so your not making a contunious cut with the whole bar will help keep the chain speed up.

Most can agree that 36" is more of a 660 kind of bar, *there is no replacement for displacement,* period. But most here could do a lot of cutting with a 36" bar on a paid for saw. What will making it work save you, a $grand and some change?


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## Stihl Alive (Nov 17, 2008)

I might have to get the trailer and the saw. :censored: it. I have to have something bigger to haul wood, but I'm never going to have the chance to get a 1200 dollar saw for half price again. I'll just have to take the :censored: storm from my wife for a few months. Maybe this will warm her up to the idea that I'm going to have to trade in my prestine Chevy 1500 after the new year or risk ruining it towing so much. I dunno. Someone make a decision for me. I'm going nutz. 

PS: I had a great time felling today even if I did face plant into the mud. I had the chance to learn a lot of things without any great danger. I did, however, get three trees hung up at once and had to take about an hour break deciding what to do. I wish I would have taken pictures, I know you guys would have told me a safer way to get out of that mess, but I ended up getting them all down.


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## ShoerFast (Nov 17, 2008)

Stihl Alive said:


> I might have to get the trailer and the saw. :censored: it. I have to have something bigger to haul wood, but I'm never going to have the chance to get a 1200 dollar saw for half price again. I'll just have to take the :censored: storm from my wife for a few months. Maybe this will warm her up to the idea that I'm going to have to trade in my prestine Chevy 1500 after the new year or risk ruining it towing so much. I dunno. Someone make a decision for me. I'm going nutz.
> 
> PS: I had a great time felling today even if I did face plant into the mud. I had the chance to learn a lot of things without any great danger. I did, however, get three trees hung up at once and had to take about an hour break deciding what to do. I wish I would have taken pictures, I know you guys would have told me a safer way to get out of that mess, but I ended up getting them all down.



Not that there is a safe way...

I have taken hangers down by cutting in to the tree from both sides , leaving a good sized hinge. 

Hooking up a ratching cable-winch high on the bottom part, pull till it brakes. 

Again, there is nothing safe about it, sometime the tree is still hung up, and sometime the bottom falls in, and the top could come your way. 

Having a lot of escape routes is a must.

Having a lot of bull-rope would be second to not making any hangers. 

Back in the day, we would leave a hanger and see what the wind would do, to me that is not an option anymore, cause that would be the time someone could come mossying through.


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## Rftreeman (Nov 17, 2008)

Stihl Alive said:


> It's really really hard to resist getting a brand new 660 at half price though. But I still can't justify it right now.


I can justify buying it, where's it at?????


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## Stihl Alive (Nov 17, 2008)

Rftreeman said:


> I can justify buying it, where's it at?????




no dice home slice. This guy owes me a couple grand from a few years ago. He's a bit of a crack head so I never expected the money back. But his grandmother inherited a few million dollars and gave him a credit card with no limit. For the past 6 months he's been randomly paying people's bills, and ordering things online for them for half price so he can have the cash. I feel kind of dirty, but he's going to do it for someone anyway, and HE OWES ME. I ordered about $230 of PPE and rope from Bailey's last week and gave him $100. I would just have him call the dealer, place my order, then pay him half in cash and go pick it up. I really want this saw. The trailer is going anywhere soon so I think I'll get the saw, then just buy the trailer from that guy after xmas and I've done one or two real paying jobs.


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## Rftreeman (Nov 17, 2008)

Stihl Alive said:


> no dice home slice. This guy owes me a couple grand from a few years ago. He's a bit of a crack head so I never expected the money back. But his grandmother inherited a few million dollars and gave him a credit card with no limit. For the past 6 months he's been randomly paying people's bills, and ordering things online for them for half price so he can have the cash. I feel kind of dirty, but he's going to do it for someone anyway, and HE OWES ME. I ordered about $230 of PPE and rope from Bailey's last week and gave him $100. I would just have him call the dealer, place my order, then pay him half in cash and go pick it up. I really want this saw. The trailer is going anywhere soon so I think I'll get the saw, then just buy the trailer from that guy after xmas and I've done one or two real paying jobs.


I sent you a pm


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## Stihl Alive (Nov 18, 2008)

I caved. The saw has been ordered and I'm picking it up tomorrow. :greenchainsaw:


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## Rftreeman (Nov 18, 2008)

TreeCo said:


> Sounds like you may be getting yourself involved in a future police investigation.


how's that, the guy is using a legit credit card that he got from his granny? if he wants to buy stuff and sell it for less that's on him, nothing illegal going on that I see.


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## buzz sawyer (Nov 18, 2008)

Rftreeman said:


> how's that, the guy is using a legit credit card that he got from his granny? if he wants to buy stuff and sell it for less that's on him, nothing illegal going on that I see.



I agree, nothing illegal but he could still be connected with the "cracked" side of the guy. I think I would just demand the cash he owes me and let him get it however he wants to, then buy the saw outright.


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## sawinredneck (Nov 18, 2008)

TreeCo said:


> It doesn't pass the sniff test and I'm a couple of hundred miles away!
> 
> I'm suggesting he proceed with caution. Maybe he could get a few extra and saws and sell a few to you! Just kidding.
> 
> I don't think Grandma would approve.



Doesn't pass Dan? This is six week old fish man!!!:jawdrop: :jawdrop: 

The world must be off i's axis or something, I find I am agreeing with about six of ten of you're posts:jawdrop:


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## tree MDS (Nov 27, 2008)

Stihl Alive said:


> no dice home slice. This guy owes me a couple grand from a few years ago. He's a bit of a crack head so I never expected the money back. But his grandmother inherited a few million dollars and gave him a credit card with no limit. For the past 6 months he's been randomly paying people's bills, and ordering things online for them for half price so he can have the cash. I feel kind of dirty, but he's going to do it for someone anyway, and HE OWES ME. I ordered about $230 of PPE and rope from Bailey's last week and gave him $100. I would just have him call the dealer, place my order, then pay him half in cash and go pick it up. I really want this saw. The trailer is going anywhere soon so I think I'll get the saw, then just buy the trailer from that guy after xmas and I've done one or two real paying jobs.



This is priceless. Glad I found this one. You gotta love the honesty in this post, for real. Treeguy struggling to get ahead sees deal from crackhead (that already owes him $ anyhow) that looks legal = why not?

Only thing I can think of is possible reprocussions showing up latter. 

One thing I've learned from watching to much Court TV is that you never realize how tracable things are. What if its not really his granny's credit card?

Who leaves a crackhead a credit card for an inheritance anyway?, lol.


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## Stihl Alive (Nov 27, 2008)

tree MDS said:


> This is priceless. Glad I found this one. You gotta love the honesty in this post, for real. Treeguy struggling to get ahead sees deal from crackhead (that already owes him $ anyhow) that looks legal = why not?
> 
> Only thing I can think of is possible reprocussions showing up latter.
> 
> ...




I know his granny, have my whole life. Its her card. She knows what he does with it. SHE inherited the money, not him. She gave him the cards so 1. he could always eat, and 2. so he would not steal from anyone. She pays the bill every month and lets him use the cards as he sees fit.. He's not going to stop smoking crack, because he doesn't want to. We used to be good friends in high school but drifted apart when I went to college and he started doing more drugs. I know there are dozens of ethical questions that can be asked about this situation, but I don't feel guilty about it. He told me he could either spend all week trying to get people to let him pay their cable bill, or buy bigger things less often. Its easier on him that way. Either way its going to happen. Ethical/Not ethical, right/wrong. Still gonna happen. I just saw him in Greenville last night and talked for a while. Hehehe, he actually told me his grandmother wants to take down three pines around her house and was going to give me a call. 

By the way that 660 runs like a dream. I love it.


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## tree MDS (Nov 27, 2008)

Stihl Alive said:


> I know his granny, have my whole life. Its her card. She knows what he does with it. SHE inherited the money, not him. She gave him the cards so 1. he could always eat, and 2. so he would not steal from anyone. She pays the bill every month and lets him use the cards as he sees fit.. He's not going to stop smoking crack, because he doesn't want to. We used to be good friends in high school but drifted apart when I went to college and he started doing more drugs. I know there are dozens of ethical questions that can be asked about this situation, but I don't feel guilty about it. He told me he could either spend all week trying to get people to let him pay their cable bill, or buy bigger things less often. Its easier on him that way. Either way its going to happen. Ethical/Not ethical, right/wrong. Still gonna happen. I just saw him in Greenville last night and talked for a while. Hehehe, he actually told me his grandmother wants to take down three pines around her house and was going to give me a call.
> 
> By the way that 660 runs like a dream. I love it.



So basically you got that saw from granny - who you have known all your life! 

Nice guy, lol.

Or, hehehe (sorry)


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## Stihl Alive (Nov 27, 2008)

tree MDS said:


> So basically you got that saw from granny - who you have known all your life!
> 
> Nice guy, lol.
> 
> Or, hehehe (sorry)




that's correct.


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## tree MDS (Nov 28, 2008)

Hey Stihl Alive, I was just bustin yer a$$ - newsflash: I do that sometimes.

I probably would have done the same thing - or at least would have been very tempted to.

Thats some sad enabling going on there with poor granny and that crackhead
grandson though. I kind of makes me sad to hear of it.

Of course sonny boy dont want to quit with a setup like that. What a waste of money and life. 

Bad drug that crack. The only thing worse is the big H.

Oh well, enjoy the saw, peace MDS


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## Stihl Alive (Nov 28, 2008)

tree MDS said:


> Hey Stihl Alive, I was just bustin yer a$$ - newsflash: I do that sometimes.
> 
> I probably would have done the same thing - or at least would have been very tempted to.
> 
> ...




no big deal man, I didn't take it to heart. I wouldn't have posted it if I didn't want to spark discussion. The situation looks diffferent from everyone's angle. I've known this family forever and dont' feel bad about what I'm doing, but I also want stuff. But I didn't feel bad when he paid his ex girlfriend's car payment with it for 5 months either. 

This topic did raise another question though: Does anyone buy things from pawn shops? If so, do you ever feel guilty? Do you think every item (especially big items) was brought in there by some honest hard working guy thatjust needed a little quick cash?


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## showrguy (Nov 29, 2008)

hey stihlalive, this is a good story, since there's no guilt here, ya might as well whack granny 600 bucks for the three pines, then you got your new saw for free ?????
sorry, i just had to add to this thread..


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## Stihl Alive (Nov 29, 2008)

I met him today just to chat for a while. He was making a purchase on the card for a WII (not me) and the company called Granny. She approved the purchase. She knows, she's fine. She just doesn't want him stealing or hungry. She is rich and old so she did the best she could I guess. Like I said, I knew you guys would break ballz about it, it doesn't bother me. Carry on.


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## bigjake (Dec 4, 2008)

I have 2 i run on my 441 a 24 and a 32 skip chisel it cuts very well .and its
not dog ass slow like some will tell you .Just try it its cheaper than another saw.Just my expereince .


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## SustainableTree (Dec 15, 2008)

Have him order me one too...........you can't go wrong with a 660! Great addition to your "quiver". I've seen guys around here run 60" bars with skip chain on them......not for hardwood though and not all the time. My 066 has a 36" bar on it every day and throws chips through anything. (not dirt  )


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## Stihl Alive (Dec 26, 2008)

SustainableTree said:


> Have him order me one too...........you can't go wrong with a 660! Great addition to your "quiver". I've seen guys around here run 60" bars with skip chain on them......not for hardwood though and not all the time. My 066 has a 36" bar on it every day and throws chips through anything. (not dirt  )




I got a 36" with my 660, but put a 25" on it. I have never used the 36". i only had two real opportunities where I would need it. Referred both jobs to someone else due to inexperience. I put a 20" on the 441 and it is perfect.


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