# Advanced Falling Cuts



## btohlen (Dec 20, 2014)

Hoping to get some advice about alternative/advanced falling techniques. I've got the conventional and humbolt cuts down, but am looking for some other falling cuts to add to my tool kit. What are some of the best and safest alternative cuts you use, and in what situations do you use them? Sump pictures encouraged!


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## northmanlogging (Dec 20, 2014)

Most of the rest are for turning trees, swinging, etc. Theres a few for making the log jump off the stump. And a couple for preventing barber chairs.

Biggest thing is manipulation of the hold wood, tree will turn towards the thicker hold wood, its not a 100% guarantee and depends largely on trunk size, while a small tree can be turned, its not as effective as a fat stump.

This would be easier to answer if you had a more specific problem to solve.


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## btohlen (Dec 20, 2014)

I guess I'm most interested in turning trees of their lean.


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## Spotted Owl (Dec 20, 2014)

What are you up against that needs advanced cutting technique? Get into some of the tricky stuff and stumps don't look all that pretty any more sometimes. Start putting big forces in places that don't want it and things break, twist and pull. When you get into these cuts the safe part starts going down a bit, especially if you don't have the experience or some one showing you hands on, do this, don't do that, with all the variable that can't possibly be told here. Search up dutchmen, siswheel. That should get you some reading. Big thing is being able to read a tree quick while it's moving and deciding if something else needs to be or can be done and where on the stump to do it. Keep your eyes on the top it will tell you everything that is happening and what needs to be done. Have to know your trees too. Which hold good and which break fast and won't take much. Use a block, play with snipes. Until your comfortable don't do this wile your by yourself.

I hope I didn't fall for some fishing expedition here.



Owl


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## treeslayer2003 (Dec 20, 2014)

i would say a block face and wedges is one of the more safe................depends on what your cutting, be careful with white oak and ash.


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## mdavlee (Dec 20, 2014)

btohlen said:


> I guess I'm most interested in turning trees of their lean.


With wedges or dutchman or what?


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## btohlen (Dec 20, 2014)

Cutting lodgepole and dough fir. Haven't explored with Dutchman so I'm interested in that.


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## bnmc98 (Dec 20, 2014)

Where in MT are you?

I generally use the straight up cuts most of the time, its fast and efficient and much safer as stated above. I will play around a little if I dont feel like pounding wedges and It wont affect my lay or risk breaking the wood. Usually the different cuts come out when I am trying to swing a tree away from a lean. The real tricks are with moderate leaners or rotten trees. I will generally put in a siswheel or more of a block cut to try to help them hang on a little longer, but a lot of times (especially on the larger ones), the sheer weight of the tree will break the hinge before It gets where you want it to go; so some times I have to over shoot where I really want it to go with my face cut (ie aiming beyond where I want it to go) and hope it drops close to the needed spot.

There are lots of different things you can do, some of them you just stumble into depending on the dilemma. I find the trickiest trees to deal with are the heavy leaners. keep your face cuts opened up, specially on the fir, so they dont split out on you.

not a whole lot you can do with the dead lodgepole around here, they don't pull near as easy as a green tree, especially if they have been dead a while, like most around here. hinges are done pretty much in the first part of them going over they just break. watch your wind on those too, a little can blow your tree off course pretty good because they are light.

Which brings up a good point, dead trees behave different from green trees, I am guess you are cutting mostly dead if you are not a pro? green can pull much longer and harder, you can even pull roots out of the ground when swinging a green tree. dead ones pretty much say, "OK I'm done, I think I will break my hinge NOW" The fir will hang on longer the the pine though.


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## Pyroholic (Dec 20, 2014)

Anybody got any recommendations for a book on this topic?


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## bnmc98 (Dec 20, 2014)

Professional timber falling - a procedural approach by douglas dent has some basics for cutting. The work safe bc faller training vids have some stuff as well. Lots on youtube to help you learn what not to do, but some vids are ok. I think a lot of the real advanced stuff you will need to talk to some of the guys here.


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## lfnh (Dec 20, 2014)

A good read here. Pics - copy and paste as the links are broke.
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/felling-2-trees.107809/

Never same old, same old. Time of year, cold affect wood differentlly.
Some time even dead can be root pulled.


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## RandyMac (Dec 20, 2014)

I'll be back later


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## northmanlogging (Dec 20, 2014)

simplest and easiest thing is to use a dutchmen block, take of chunk out of the face chunk stick in the face opposite where you want the tree to go, I.E. if you want it to go left, stick the block on the right. 

The soft dutch is more or less the same thing, except you leave the "block" as part of the stump, and make a series of cuts to help keep the tree moving, lets it sort of roll around nice and smooth. 

Then the standard dutchmen block is just a mismatch of the face cuts, where as the gun cut is deeper then the slope cut, creating a step. Most times I'll purposefully cut off the off side from the face severing the hold wood on that side before I even start the back cut. 

For steering a dutch block is usually left on the one side of the stump.

A kerf dutch is used to make the tree hop a bit and clear the ground quickly, its just a mismatched cut that is even across the stump, that step between the hold wood and the slope cut on the face acts like a speed bump. This should absolutely not be tried on any chair prone timber, it can cause a stall which will then cause a chair...

The siswheel, is a basically a modified block cut, but focused on one side of the stump, the idea being to maximize hold wood on the side you want to turn too, if done correctly they can and will pull the roots out of the ground. I try to place my sis's about middle of a root swell, or a little infront. Make them as tall as you want, I've seen pics of some that went from waist high to nearly digging in the dirt.

All these tricks are just that tricks, once a guy figures them out they work fairly good, but its like playing poker, you have to play the hand your dealt, trees do fight back, and gravity is a fickle *****. DO NOT count on any of these if you plan on working near any high value targets.

Some good folks to look for on YOUTUBE would be hotsaws101, and Tarzantree, both former/current? members here. You can also go back through the falling pics thread and pick up whats left, some pictures are missing.


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## Gologit (Dec 20, 2014)

RandyMac said:


> I'll be back later


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## Spotted Owl (Dec 20, 2014)

RandyMac said:


> I'll be back later



Don't tease like that, then disappear. Ill brew up some more of this guy and share with Bob.



Owl


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## RandyMac (Dec 20, 2014)

Spotted Owl said:


> Don't tease like that, then disappear. Ill brew up some more of this guy and share with Bob.
> 
> 
> 
> Owl



new meds, out of order


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## Spotted Owl (Dec 20, 2014)

New meds? Why would you do such a thing. We need the regular Randy around here. Let's all chant, no meds, no meds, no meds. 

I hope you adjust soon. New meds are a good thing.



Owl


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## RandyMac (Dec 20, 2014)

Thank you Owl.
I've gone 'round the bend


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## BeatCJ (Dec 20, 2014)

Anyone want to come demonstrate? I have some 12" Alder leaning toward my house that needs something done with it before very long. The worst is a clump with 4 off the same stump. 3 of them will go where I want them, the last one looks like it has a mind of it's own.


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## 4x4American (Dec 20, 2014)

do you call a snipe just that little nip off the front of the undercut that will help to throw the tree off the stump? or is there more to it?


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## Spotted Owl (Dec 20, 2014)

That's it. Not so much jumping, but it will get the butt on the ground faster, when you have short ground out in front. 

Can help keep breaking down when ground is uneven some. Get the butt on the ground and a lot of the weight is down before the rest hits and breaks up some of the momentun. I can see this but I'm not explaining it right or in a way to make any sense, maybe someone can take over for me until I can get my brain to finger coordination figured out.



Owl


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## treeslayer2003 (Dec 20, 2014)

makes perfect sense to me owl..........makes it not whip so bad if the weight of the butt is on the ground...........no this ain't easy lol i got in my mind what happens but its hard to explain......


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## Gologit (Dec 20, 2014)

Spotted Owl said:


> That's it. Not so much jumping, but it will get the butt on the ground faster, when you have short ground out in front.
> 
> Can help keep breaking down when ground is uneven some. Get the butt on the ground and a lot of the weight is down before the rest hits and breaks up some of the momentun. I can see this but I'm not explaining it right or in a way to make any sense, maybe someone can take over for me until I can get my brain to finger coordination figured out.
> 
> ...


 You said it right. A snipe can save out brittle wood on short ground. If you do it right the butt just kinda slides off the stump nice and easy and doesn't get that whipping motion started that breaks things all to hell.


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## RandyMac (Dec 20, 2014)

You can also use a snipe to roll the butt to miss a stump or rock in the lay. The top will still go where you aimed it.


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## hseII (Dec 20, 2014)

RandyMac said:


> You can also use a snipe to roll the butt to miss a stump or rock in the lay. The top will still go where you aimed it.


Randy, 
when you get a minute, can you draw it?

I'm being serious for a minute; I understand what y'all are saying, but the pictures clear things up even more.

How You get your rx situated; different makes me crazy


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## RandyMac (Dec 20, 2014)

No drawing for you.
It is simple, you envision what you want the tree to do and cut accordingly.
Ok, not so simple. If it needs to roll to the left, place the snipe to the left.

RX sux, it is an imprecise methodology matching meds to an individual.


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## treeslayer2003 (Dec 20, 2014)

i'll try.......Heath ya put a second smaller notch opposite the first but at a slightly different angle so that the tree rolls a little bit as it follows the notches. so if you made a humbolt then the snipe is in the log, conventional the snipe is in the stump.


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## hseII (Dec 20, 2014)

treeslayer2003 said:


> i'll try.......Heath ya put a second smaller notch opposite the first but at a slightly different angle so that the tree rolls a little bit as it follows the notches. so if you made a humbolt then the snipe is in the log, conventional the snipe is in the stump.


Thank You


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## Gypo Logger (Dec 21, 2014)

I think I can be of some help.


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## bnmc98 (Dec 21, 2014)

Gypo Logger said:


> I think I can be of some help.




Wow. just... wow.


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## btohlen (Dec 21, 2014)

Bahaha


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## Gypo Logger (Dec 21, 2014)

Yuo guys better not be laughing at me! Don't make me come down there!


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## bnmc98 (Dec 21, 2014)

I think you are ready to approach Paramount Pictures with that one.


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## Gypo Logger (Dec 21, 2014)

bnmc98 said:


> I think you are ready to approach Paramount Pictures with that one.


That's what I was thinking.


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## CapitaineHaddoc (Dec 21, 2014)

Gologit said:


> You said it right. A snipe can save out brittle wood on short ground. If you do it right the butt just kinda slides off the stump nice and easy and doesn't get that whipping motion started that breaks things all to hell.



Is this method called the "swanson"?


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## Marshy (Dec 21, 2014)




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## northmanlogging (Dec 21, 2014)

Swanson is just a really ****ing big humboldt more like Gypo's first vid, works similar to a snipe though, getting the butt on the ground quick like, unfortunately it tends to let the tree build up some speed so it sort of counter acts the idea of getting the butt down fast by making the rest of it haul ass. 

A more shallow humboldt with a snipe will control decent to some degree and then let the butt slide off all gentle and stuff.

I'll generally put my snipes on the stump side, coarse I have no idea as to why just makes prettier logs.


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## btohlen (Dec 21, 2014)

northmanlogging said:


> simplest and easiest thing is to use a dutchmen block, take of chunk out of the face chunk stick in the face opposite where you want the tree to go, I.E. if you want it to go left, stick the block on the right.
> 
> The soft dutch is more or less the same thing, except you leave the "block" as part of the stump, and make a series of cuts to help keep the tree moving, lets it sort of roll around nice and smooth.
> 
> ...


It seems to me like it would be hard to judge how much these techniques will turn a tree. Can you tell exactly where it will go or is it more "well, it's going left of where I gunned it" and hope for the best?


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## treeslayer2003 (Dec 21, 2014)

northmanlogging said:


> Swanson is just a really ****ing big humboldt more like Gypo's first vid, works similar to a snipe though, getting the butt on the ground quick like, unfortunately it tends to let the tree build up some speed so it sort of counter acts the idea of getting the butt down fast by making the rest of it haul ass.
> 
> A more shallow humboldt with a snipe will control decent to some degree and then let the butt slide off all gentle and stuff.
> 
> I'll generally put my snipes on the stump side, coarse I have no idea as to why just makes prettier logs.


yes......thats why i make a pretty steep humbolt. in some of these selections i want it to fall fast to get on the ground and not be propped up by brush/trash saplings. plus the splittyer wood does better with steep. pine not so steep usualy.


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## northmanlogging (Dec 21, 2014)

little bit of cross yer fingers and hope... but to some extent you have fairly good control, unless you're trying to turn them more then say 90 degrees, then things get interesting.

Its mostly about watching the top, and knowing where to cut the hold wood and when. The face cuts are your way of aiming and a little of control. Normally speaking you initial gun cut is the one the aims the tree, but when you don't match them up the slope cut becomes the aiming device (a large reason why tree don't go where planned is failure to match cuts or clean out the face). 

If a tree is going to far past where you want it you can power through the near side of the hold wood and get it to stop turning, or at least slow down a bit, if its not going far enough, then you power into the off side. Either way it requires you to sit tight next to the stump longer than is strictly wise, once that bastard is on its way and not going to hurt anything important, its time to run... just using the hold wood thickness is more than enough for most timber, face em where you intend to send em and "help" em along with the back cut, but you have to look up, don't get so focused on what the saw is doing, it will be fine, pay attention to the hold wood but keep an eye on the top, the top is your hood ornament... line er up with the white line and keep it there... only keep looking at the road... get it?


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## 4x4American (Dec 21, 2014)

treeslayer2003 said:


> i'll try.......Heath ya put a second smaller notch opposite the first but at a slightly different angle so that the tree rolls a little bit as it follows the notches. so if you made a humbolt then the snipe is in the log, conventional the snipe is in the stump.



I do it other way, I put snipe on stump with a humboldt. Don't really make conventional notches. Most everything I drop is saw timber, so I like to get the most out of it. If it is a firewood tree, I still use a humboldt, because the more you practice, the better you get. Clean out the crotch of the notch always, and look up.


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## northmanlogging (Dec 21, 2014)

Did ya ever get that dozer or skidder?


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## HuskStihl (Dec 21, 2014)

btohlen said:


> It seems to me like it would be hard to judge how much these techniques will turn a tree. Can you tell exactly where it will go or is it more "well, it's going left of where I gunned it" and hope for the best?


Gawd how I love these threads, and appreciate it when the big boys play along and give advice.
Two choices. 
Be like me. Put u'r bestest face in the direction you want the tree to go (within reason). Try u'r best to judge the lean, then set up a block/kerf Dutchman from the face side (maybe with a bore, maybe not) to compensate for the lean as best you can. Then try to put in a level back cut and hope.

Or be like the big boys. Put in a really nice face, get a feel for the lean/wind/earth rotation etc., then turn the tree by feel with the back cut, and hit u'r mark 99.5% of the time.


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## hseII (Dec 21, 2014)

Where's Hondaman?
I need to see some crayons


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## slowp (Dec 22, 2014)

I shall once again post my lengthy video getting a smallish tree to go where it did not want to go. This was a teaching moment at the end of the day, so time could be spared.


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## 4x4American (Dec 22, 2014)

northmanlogging said:


> Did ya ever get that dozer or skidder?



No haha I ended up getting a portable sawmill and a tractor. Off on my own now, running my own numbers.


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## treeslayer2003 (Dec 22, 2014)

4x4American said:


> No haha I ended up getting a portable sawmill and a tractor. Off on my own now, running my own numbers.


good for you, and good luck


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## Trx250r180 (Dec 22, 2014)

hseII said:


> Where's Hondaman?
> I need to see some crayons


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## hseII (Dec 22, 2014)

Trx250r180 said:


> View attachment 388659


My Herro.

I was talking about the snipe, but again, you maka it clears FO me 

Is it wrong that I make the bottom cut first on my face, and then do the top till the chunk moves?

You know, 20-30% below level for 1st cut, and the 60-70% above level for 2nd cut?
When they intersect, the chunk moves


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## Trx250r180 (Dec 22, 2014)

hseII said:


> My Herro.
> 
> I was talking about the snipe, but again, you maka it clears FO me
> 
> ...



not wrong ,maybe a little harder for me though ,a smart man once told me to make my back cut before the face if falling into a slight breeze ,it kept my bar from getting pinched ,worked great


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## Trx250r180 (Dec 22, 2014)

Better yet ,watch this movie ,excellent video of a faller doing a snipe ,and what the tree does bouncing off of the snipe


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## hseII (Dec 22, 2014)

Trx250r180 said:


> View attachment 388660


I see completely now.

Thank You B


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## HuskStihl (Dec 22, 2014)

Trx250r180 said:


> not wrong ,maybe a little harder for me though ,*a smart man once told me to make my back cut before the face if falling into a slight breeze ,it kept my bar from getting pinched ,worked great *


You're welcome for that


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## Trx250r180 (Dec 22, 2014)

HuskStihl said:


> You're welcome for that


Careful ,that smart man may light you on fire .........


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## hseII (Dec 22, 2014)

Trx250r180 said:


> Better yet ,watch this movie ,excellent video of a faller doing a snipe ,and what the tree does bouncing off of the snipe



Oh44 FTW!!!

I'm gonna have 1 that's just like that one, one of these years  to go with ol' trustee.

Ol' trustee is giving me concern. I've got to check it out today since it's rainy anyways.

Hopefully it's something little that I can fix today so I won't have to use my 660 unless I want to.


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## btohlen (Dec 22, 2014)

Whats the purpose behind the really narrow face cut? I was taught to cut the sloping cut at a 45 degree from the gunning cut. Is it just to save a little time cutting? I suppose cutting at less of an angle is probably more efficient (saw cuts quicker, less distance).


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## treeslayer2003 (Dec 22, 2014)

depends on the wood, i found i can get away with a narrower face with pine but white oak needs steep to break clean


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## Trx250r180 (Dec 22, 2014)

treeslayer2003 said:


> depends on the wood, i found i can get away with a narrower face with pine but white oak needs steep to break clean


Was talking to a faller the other day ,they were falling with no face ,they must have had some good lean going to not need one i guess ,seems like would not get good aim to me though


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## hseII (Dec 22, 2014)

Trx250r180 said:


> Was talking to a faller the other day ,they were falling with no face ,they must have had some good lean going to not need one i guess ,seems like would not get good aim to me though


Even if we are pushing them over with the high reach or a hoe, they still get notched.


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## treeslayer2003 (Dec 22, 2014)

Trx250r180 said:


> Was talking to a faller the other day ,they were falling with no face ,they must have had some good lean going to not need one i guess ,seems like would not get good aim to me though


jumpin.........i didn't think any one did that there. i used to do it alot in pecker poles.........makes good time but its dangerous as hell. idk bout that side but most pine thickets can be felled east here.


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## Trx250r180 (Dec 22, 2014)

treeslayer2003 said:


> jumpin.........i didn't think any one did that there. i used to do it alot in pecker poles.........makes good time but its dangerous as hell. idk bout that side but most pine thickets can be felled east here.


He was telling me when they lean uphill ,will face and backcut ,but leave the hinge so they stand still ,and drop a heavy one into them and 10-15 go down the same direction at the same time also ,must be a time thing like you said .,He did say makes harder to hook them to the yarder when stacked like that though .


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## lfnh (Dec 22, 2014)

Trx250r180 said:


> He was telling me when they lean uphill ,will face and backcut ,but leave the hinge so they stand still ,and drop a heavy one into them and 10-15 go down the same direction at the same time also ,must be a time thing like you said .,He did say makes harder to hook them to the yarder when stacked like that though .


 
domino.
nfg


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## Gologit (Dec 22, 2014)

Trx250r180 said:


> He was telling me when they lean uphill ,will face and backcut ,but leave the hinge so they stand still ,and drop a heavy one into them and 10-15 go down the same direction at the same time also ,must be a time thing like you said .,He did say makes harder to hook them to the yarder when stacked like that though .



You don't think he might have been pulling your leg a little do ya? If you're dropping uphill and the hill is steep enough they can come sliding right back down, sometimes turning as they go. If they turn to where they're across the hill...and rolling... you can get a lot of trouble headed your way real quick
Makes you jump and run.
I can't imagine trying to get out of the way of 10-15 at once. I'm not that fast. I don't think I ever was.


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## northmanlogging (Dec 22, 2014)

I hear of guys pushing like this to show off. I know 2 people that have been maimed and 2 that have died doing it... granted sometimes ya have to push a few to make life easy but damn man 15 at a time is almost suicide.


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## Trx250r180 (Dec 22, 2014)

Gologit said:


> You don't think he might have been pulling your leg a little do ya? If you're dropping uphill and the hill is steep enough they can come sliding right back down, sometimes turning as they go. If they turn to where they're across the hill...and rolling... you can get a lot of trouble headed your way real quick
> Makes you jump and run.
> I can't imagine trying to get out of the way of 10-15 at once. I'm not that fast. I don't think I ever was.


I may have described wrong ,the trees leaned uphill ,but he fell them being on the uphill side,did the multiple trees at a time that way to push them over against the lean,he had a new kid he fired because he thought running down the hill to get his water below where they were falling was a good idea


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## Spotted Owl (Dec 22, 2014)

Last time I dropped up hill I got my backside chewed to pieces. Boss at the time told me there is never ever is there a reason to drop up hill. OK. So down hill they went, busted darn near to everyone of them too. To steep and to much swing time to gain speed. Up hill, roll'em off the stump to the far side and get back outta the way. Didn't break a single one. They will sweep ya right off the map though if'n you're not paying attention. Starting at the bottom makes for a lot of crap to work through though. Oh well he WAS the boss. 

Domino always makes me nervous. Sometimes you can't hardly get away from it, but you don't have to like it. I like having guys tell me why it's a good idea to lean them up and then trigger off, while standing under them triggering the last straw. So many things can go bad and you can't watch all of it. Bad ideas, begat bad ideas and bad practice. That whole 1000 and 1 time thing. Stay away from it, you're doing the same amount of cutting any way, just avoid it, unless you just can't. My experience tells me 99% of the domino cuts are 100% ego.



Owl


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## treeslayer2003 (Dec 22, 2014)

if im falling on any hill, they will have to go uphill or quartering up hill becuase there will be water down hill.....creek bottom. everything else here is flat.


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## Gologit (Dec 22, 2014)

I agree Owl. YouTube loggers showing off. And, I gotta admit, it's pretty impressive to watch. It's just not something that I'd make a habit of or advise anybody to do
. I'll use a pusher sometimes if I have to and I've crippled up two and then pushed with the third but I think that's my limit. So far, anyway.
Like you said, things can go wrong real fast and you might not have anywhere to run.


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## Spotted Owl (Dec 22, 2014)

Flat? What is this flat? What's wrong with standing on an edge and looking down at daylight? 

If things don't tear you up now and then, you don't put enough stock in yourself. If you stop learning, you are on the short path to a bad ending. You can learn even from the greenest kid you'll ever meet. I know the % won't be right. But. Something like this, you will learn/retain around 30% of what you are taught, you will retain over 90% of what you teach. If you find yourself lacking somewhere, find both a stronger AND a weaker person in that area, to learn from by learning and by teaching.

I hope that make any kind of sense at all.



Owl


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## treeslayer2003 (Dec 22, 2014)

Spotted Owl said:


> Flat? What is this flat? What's wrong with standing on an edge and looking down at daylight?
> 
> If things don't tear you up now and then, you don't put enough stock in yourself. If you stop learning, you are on the short path to a bad ending. You can learn even from the greenest kid you'll ever meet. I know the % won't be right. But. Something like this, you will learn/retain around 30% of what you are taught, you will retain over 90% of what you teach. If you find yourself lacking somewhere, find both a stronger AND a weaker person in that area, to learn from by learning and by teaching.
> 
> ...


it does........its just that you need some one who wants to learn...........i know i'm synical........i'm workin on it


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## Spotted Owl (Dec 22, 2014)

A pusher is one thing, and a good tool in the bag. Some of these things you see and hear about are something else. Ya sometimes they limb lock and you're stuck, but 5, 8 or more at once is nothing more than a stroke. I like pushers especially when I have no way out and as back up plans. Some of the young guys around here take video with their phones now and show them all over town. It is impressive, but nothing I want any part of. One kid set up a slug and then thought he'd trigger it off, dropping a good fir through the middle. all he did was split the mess in two. Then had to go back in there and take it apart. He wanted to wait until the yarder set-up and pull them. Side rod just laughed at him. 



Owl


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## 4x4American (Dec 23, 2014)

I might have to start doing


Trx250r180 said:


> View attachment 388659




Pretty strong you are one handing your saw the whole time


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## HuskStihl (Dec 23, 2014)

4x4American said:


> Pretty strong you are one handing your saw the whole time


He's a former pro athlete


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## hseII (Dec 23, 2014)

HuskStihl said:


> He's a former pro athlete


A Bad Man I Am


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## Spotted Owl (Dec 25, 2014)

hseII said:


> Randy,
> when you get a minute, can you draw it?
> 
> I'm being serious for a minute; I understand what y'all are saying, but the pictures clear things up even more.
> ...



It isn't any drawing. But. We've been watching a lot of youtube very recently. Here's a picture about it. Hopefully this will clear it up for ya.





Owl


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## 4x4American (Dec 29, 2014)

That feller is a purdy good faller 
Lots of good videos. His 346 "micro howler" is impressive


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## bitzer (Jan 1, 2015)

Narrow face to get em off the stump quickly for whoever was asking. Feeling the tree move is whats its all about for swing cuts. You can't always get a read out of the top in hardwood. If you can't feel it in your bar you may not be ready. Chair prone trees swing the best because of their fibers. Bottom line is stump time.


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## hammerlogging (Jan 2, 2015)

bitzer said:


> Bottom line is stump time.


Real poetic, well put, mister bitzer


----------



## Gypo Logger (Jan 3, 2015)

Watch the squirrel.
http://smg.photobucket.com/user/sunlover3/media/Special pictures/Trees/MOV02985.mp4.html?sort=3&o=2


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## SliverPicker (Jan 5, 2015)

I don' get too fancy with the saw these days 100% of my stumps are at least partially rotten. This pine has been dead for a long time now. It's a big game of pick up sticks for me. Just drop 'me with the lean and call it good. I have learned to use strategy in order to make skidder access easier. I have to abandon about 25% of my stumps before the cut is " finished" because the trees are on the way to the ground already due to rot. My sprinting skills have improved, but my cutting skills are stagnating.


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## joesawer (Jan 6, 2015)

Some things never change lol


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## RandyMac (Jan 6, 2015)

Response after I laughed at someone's tree


cantoo said:


> The tree is on the ground no one got hurt, that we know of anyway. All kinds of reasons to do a cut like that, hardware or whatever reason he had.
> And yeah I was a farmer and most of my friends are. Did you eat today, you're welcome.
> Do you still wonder why people hardly post any pictures in this thread anymore?
> Do you wonder why most of us don't come to this thread anymore?
> I used to have some respect for you guys. Used to.





cantoo said:


> I thought I had a spot to try the farmers cut, sloping backcut, Dutchman or whatever it is called. Maple and ash growing right beside each other and didn't want to damage the maple. Didn't work worth a crap for getting it on the ground but at least I never cut the maple. Pushed it down with the tractor.
> View attachment 392024
> View attachment 392025
> View attachment 392027


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## Gologit (Jan 6, 2015)

joesawer said:


> Some things never change lol



Hey, look who's back! Where ya been?


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## Gologit (Jan 6, 2015)

RandyMac said:


> Response after I laughed at someone's tree



I wonder why he didn't just cut that ash a little higher and then trim up what was left? Didn't see much point in arguing with him about it. He's sure he's right.


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## joesawer (Jan 6, 2015)

I have been around the world. Well almost lol.


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## joesawer (Jan 6, 2015)

I am working on getting a place up in God's country. The state of Jefferson.


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## RandyMac (Jan 6, 2015)

joesawer said:


> I am working on getting a place up in God's country. The state of Jefferson.



North or South Jefferson?


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## joesawer (Jan 7, 2015)

I am looking at Siskiyou county


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## Gologit (Jan 7, 2015)

joesawer said:


> I am looking at Siskiyou county


 Good place. A little tough to find work but a guy can make it.


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## slowp (Jan 7, 2015)

Happy Camp is not a happy place.


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## joesawer (Jan 7, 2015)

I am not trying to find trees to cut, but everywhere I go people always seem to want me to cut trees. I just want to get where there is lots of trees and critters.


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## joesawer (Jan 7, 2015)

I heard happy camp was pretty rough back in the day. I would liked to have seen it back in the seventies and eighties. But I missed that heyday.


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## slowp (Jan 7, 2015)

joesawer said:


> I heard happy camp was pretty rough back in the day. I would liked to have seen it back in the seventies and eighties. But I missed that heyday.



Well, it was so exciting to be in the laundry and have two dirt baggers use the pickup line of, "Wanna fold my underwear." Yup, pretty good, that line. Or be told to kind of keep at home after dark and to never stop for a body lying in the road--drive around it and go on. I worked and then went elsewhere on the weekends. 

The rumor later, in the 90s was that Siskiyou County encouraged the professional welfare group to move to that part of the county. Kind of out of sight, out of mind and no employment available. 

I lived in Somes Bar longer than Happy Camp, and when I mentioned the superiority of Warshington huckleberries to the wrong person, was told "You better watch out, your house might get burned down." Yup, nice place there too. Don't go down to the Ishy Pishy rock at the wrong time. Some German tourists were shot at. They reported it but nobody came to investigate. They were told they shouldn't be there even though it is on public land, there are no signs, etc. My friend also had to call in for reinforcements when an airdrop of fire supplies was made and locals beat him to it and were threatening him. 

It's one of those places where if you didn't live there, you wouldn't believe the stories. Beautiful country, but a bizarre population.


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## SliverPicker (Jan 7, 2015)

I've been there. I've saw some pretty interesting folks in places you would never believe in those parts. In the literal middle of no where and there would be someone or a few someones just out of thin air. If looks could kill. One time a guy with only one proper eye, the other being nearly closed, appeared on the side of the road with a small caliber rifle. As I went by (on a mountain bike) I tried to speak with him. I got no reply. He didn't even look at me as I passed within 10 feet of him. I was going up hill and expected to hear that rifle crack at any time. Never did, but the seconds went by like hours. My back felt like it had a big target on it.

Ahhhh, good times, good times!


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## Joe46 (Jan 7, 2015)

Was in the Navy with a kid from Happy Camp. Folks owned a or the cafe there. This was in the 60's.


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## SliverPicker (Jan 7, 2015)

Happy Camp is neither.


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## Gologit (Jan 7, 2015)

I've logged in the Somes Bar and Happy Camp area. When you cross into that country you want to set your watch back...about a hundred years.
It's not on my list of favorite places. Slowp and Sliverpicker described it very well.

I'm not trying discourage Joe from moving to Jefferson. By and large it's a great place.
There are a lot better places than Happy Camp though. If your family has been there for five or six generations you might be alright. Otherwise...


----------



## joesawer (Jan 7, 2015)

I am not really looking in Happy Camp. I just found a place bordering Klamath NF that I want to try to get. But I probably won't be able to swing it.
I went to Happy Camp with a prospecting buddy last summer and liked the area a lot. Evidently it has changed a lot since all the mills are gone. The population crashed. 
The biggest conflict seemed to be between the miners and Indians. Both groups behavior can be considered bizarre and they are extremely sensitive and defensive.
I have dealt with being a newcomer in these little clanish mountain towns most of my life and usually can get along fine.


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## RandyMac (Jan 7, 2015)

Haven't been through there since '79, left in the middle of a firefight and I don't mean burning brush.


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## joesawer (Jan 7, 2015)

I did not mean to hijack the thread, but I am much more interested in looking for a place to finally settle down than in rehashing snipes,swing dutchmans, block faces and sheep's cants, lol


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## joesawer (Jan 7, 2015)

Maybe there is a reason for the property prices in the area lol. What is Yreka like?


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## RandyMac (Jan 7, 2015)

Fairly safe on the coast, the pot growers and meth heads hide in the little backwaters.


----------



## slowp (Jan 7, 2015)

joesawer said:


> Maybe there is a reason for the property prices in the area lol. What is Yreka like?



Yreka is destined to have a Paint Your Wagon type incident. At least that' s what I heard. When I would go to Yreka, it seemed like a nice place, but I lived in Somes Bar so my views might have been skewed a bit. Yreka has a very uncrowded Walmart because most people drive over to Oregon where there is no sales tax. You can always impress people with Yreka Bakery....study those two words a while. 

I haven't been there in a long time, but I think I did stop and fill up with gas on one of my trips south.


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## joesawer (Jan 7, 2015)

I have not seen that movie so I have no idea of what that means lol


----------



## joesawer (Jan 7, 2015)

You reek ah bakery. You reek of little trees brownies???


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## Gologit (Jan 7, 2015)

joesawer said:


> I have not seen that movie so I have no idea of what that means lol


 Underground mining during the gold rush days. The whole area is honey-combed with old mining tunnels. Miles and miles of them. Unmapped and not maintained.
In the movie an entire town sunk when all the old tunnels collapsed at once. It could happen in Yreka.
It could happen in Grass Valley, too. That's just one more reason why I'm moving back to the coast.


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## 1270d (Jan 7, 2015)

slowp said:


> Yreka is destined to have a Paint Your Wagon type incident. At least that' s what I heard. When I would go to Yreka, it seemed like a nice place, but I lived in Somes Bar so my views might have been skewed a bit. Yreka has a very uncrowded Walmart because most people drive over to Oregon where there is no sales tax. You can always impress people with Yreka Bakery....study those two words a while.
> 
> 
> I haven't been there in a long time, but I think I did stop and fill up with gas on one of my trips south.



Bakery.... Clever


----------



## joesawer (Jan 7, 2015)

There is a town in Oklahoma that that partially happened to. They where mining lead for WWII and reportedly dug under the town till they hit roots.


----------



## northmanlogging (Jan 7, 2015)

This Happy Camp sounds a little like Darrington, lots of long time locals some have never been more then 30 miles from home... lots of weird family grudges, bush vets, stills, grow ops, and meth heads...

I moved out first chance I got... course I'm just 20 mi south as the crow flies, but dammit we have more then one dining establishment, and several industries, not just the mill and some logging...

There is nothing like coming up on a camper parked 5 miles behind an overgrown dnr gate, and finding a colman stove still on... no tire tracks to be found and a strange odor...


----------



## slowp (Jan 7, 2015)

Happy Camp has no mill. It closed. Shortly after that, the gas stations closed--only a card lock pump was left. 
Meanwhile, one of the two markets in Orleans had to put in a strong door. Jimmy Pete kept crashing his car into it when he wanted cigarettes and beer at 2AM. The Somes Bar store owner had a brick thrown through his store window in a similar act. He took it upon himself to stop the stealing from his pop machine. He installed razor blades inside it and found blood all over one morning. That theft stopped. He also was not adverse to shooting at any cars that took off without paying for gas. Life on the Klamath river....it don't get much better. 

I have heard that wine grapes are getting planted in the area.


----------



## joesawer (Jan 7, 2015)

The bust after a boom ain't pretty


----------



## AKDoug (Jan 8, 2015)

northmanlogging said:


> This Happy Camp sounds a little like Darrington, lots of long time locals some have never been more then 30 miles from home... lots of weird family grudges, bush vets, stills, grow ops, and meth heads...
> 
> I moved out first chance I got... course I'm just 20 mi south as the crow flies, but dammit we have more then one dining establishment, and several industries, not just the mill and some logging...
> 
> There is nothing like coming up on a camper parked 5 miles behind an overgrown dnr gate, and finding a colman stove still on... no tire tracks to be found and a strange odor...


Oddly enough, Darrington has one of the finest archery ranges in the country.


----------



## dhskier2 (Jan 8, 2015)

slowp said:


> You can always impress people with Yreka Bakery....study those two words a while.



Rather than then the social passtime, I believe the reference is to a palindrome... same thing forward as back

1270d might have been hinting at it too



1270d said:


> Bakery.... Clever


----------



## joesawer (Jan 8, 2015)

Ha I see it plain as day now!


----------



## slowp (Jan 8, 2015)

You win.


----------



## dhskier2 (Jan 8, 2015)

slowp said:


> You win.



Well then, it's been a productive day- Giving horsey rides around the living room and winning word puzzles!


----------



## northmanlogging (Jan 8, 2015)

AKDoug said:


> Oddly enough, Darrington has one of the finest archery ranges in the country.



Spent many hours getting it ready for world shoots, at the time I heard it was one of the largest ranges in the world 400+ acres... (they may have bought more since then?)

This would be 1994-96-98? world and national archery shoots... 2 crazy weeks having a bunch of hill billies deal with foreign languages and accents... Some fun stuff there... didn't help the "adults" in charge where half drunk most of the time


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## AKDoug (Jan 8, 2015)

northmanlogging said:


> Spent many hours getting it ready for world shoots, at the time I heard it was one of the largest ranges in the world 400+ acres... (they may have bought more since then?)
> 
> This would be 1994-96-98? world and national archery shoots... 2 crazy weeks having a bunch of hill billies deal with foreign languages and accents... Some fun stuff there... didn't help the "adults" in charge where half drunk most of the time


I shot NFAA Outdoor Nationals there about 8 years ago with my son. It's a beautiful range.


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## northmanlogging (Jan 8, 2015)

Yeah Darrington is a pretty place what with the mountains staring down at ya, half of the trails on the range aren't even used during the big events, Hel I haven't even seen all of em... last I knew the whole thing is taken care of by like 3-4 people, for the big events a few more "volunteers" sign on for the massive work parties, in all about 20 people make the whole thing happen.

The messed up thing is other then occasional foot ball practice by the high school, it almost never gets used, outside of work parties I've never ran into another person while there.


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## 4x4American (Jan 10, 2015)

Man them are some crazy stories.


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## SliverPicker (Jan 10, 2015)

Then there's Hoopa.....and Orick...... Anyone remember The Mayor?


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## Gologit (Jan 10, 2015)

Covelo. Anybody been there? We called it Hoopa South.


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## spindrift7mm (Jan 10, 2015)

Hoopa in the early 70's was a recreational hotspot, drink and fight all night, wake up at noon in the parking lot of the bar then go fish for a hr and sleep til dark then do it again. I'd make it 3 maybe 4 days before losing my fishing pole or my pick up. Those Hoopa boys sure like to scrap !


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## SliverPicker (Jan 10, 2015)

Never been to Covelo that I can remember.


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## Gologit (Jan 10, 2015)

SliverPicker said:


> Never been to Covelo that I can remember.



Count 1,127 power poles going north from Willets on 101. Turn right. Remember that the painted centerline on the paved part of the road has nothing to with traffic control, especially on blind turns. It's just a survey marker. Gas up before you leave Willets. Gas prices change according what you're driving and the mood of the attendant when you get to Covelo
Set your watch back about fifty years.
It's a great place for bar fights, random stabbings in the parking lot after the bar closes, STDs that there isn't any known cure for, and high speed alcohol induced car wrecks.
When the FS sold timber there was a mill there, employment, and relative prosperity.
That was a long time ago.


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## slowp (Jan 10, 2015)

I put on a tape of bagpipe music and rolled down the windows when driving through Hoopa. I don't know why. It seemed to be the thing to do. Hoopa had a sign on both sides that said, _ARSON, We don't need it._ 

Now upriver on those cliffy curves between Hoopa and Weichepec, I had to brake a couple of times for a herd of pigs that was trotting down the road. That seemed a bit odd.


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## RandyMac (Jan 11, 2015)

Poor Orick, I knew it well.
Big Lagoon breached, dropped maybe 8-10 feet.


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## Gologit (Jan 11, 2015)

RandyMac said:


> Poor Orick, I knew it well.
> Big Lagoon breached, dropped maybe 8-10 feet.


 Hmmm...cast net time?


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## M_S_S (Jan 11, 2015)

Gologit said:


> Count 1,127 power poles going north from Willets on 101. Turn right. Remember that the painted centerline on the paved part of the road has nothing to with traffic control, especially on blind turns. It's just a survey marker. Gas up before you leave Willets. Gas prices change according what you're driving and the mood of the attendant when you get to Covelo
> Set your watch back about fifty years.
> It's a great place for bar fights, random stabbings in the parking lot after the bar closes, STDs that there isn't any known cure for, and high speed alcohol induced car wrecks.
> When the FS sold timber there was a mill there, employment, and relative prosperity.
> That was a long time ago.


The outfit I cowboy for leased a ranch there. south end of the valley. We summered about 400 cows there last year. Lol I just went and looked at the ranch with the boss, drove thru what town was there, stayed away from the bar. At my age I don't need to play those games anymore lol. Never made Covelo in my younger days, but did some dancing and fighting at Paskenta and Elk Creek lol. Ed


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## SliverPicker (Jan 11, 2015)

I remember the " Arson" signs in Hoopa.

I had a very minor run in with two brothers and their buddy one time on the side of the road in Weichepec. At least I assume the two where brothers as they looked very similar.

I did some class work on Tish Tang Ridge a few times too. Now we're talkin' timber.


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## 1270d (Jan 11, 2015)

SliverPicker said:


> I remember the " Arson" signs in Hoopa.
> 
> I had a very minor run in with two brothers and their buddy one time on the side of the road in Weichepec. At least I assume the two where brothers as they looked very similar.
> 
> I did some class work on Tish Tang Ridge a few times too. Now we're talkin' timber.



Had to look up Tish tang, interesting name. 
http://bigfootbicycleclub.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/img_1963.jpg


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## bitzer (Jan 12, 2015)

Hoopa drives the boat chief.


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## Gologit (Jan 12, 2015)

bitzer said:


> Hoopa drives the boat chief.



You're gonna need a bigger boat....


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## bitzer (Jan 12, 2015)

Gologit said:


> You're gonna need a bigger boat....


Why don't ya come down and chum some of this ****.


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## 4x4American (Jan 13, 2015)

So back to the topic for one post, talking about the farmers backcut...stihl has a video out on youtube advertising their new 661, i bet most of yawl have seen it, but the farmer I mean faller  in the video did one of them sloping back cuts, and I said boy gee the folks over there at AS might get a kick outta this!


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## 4x4American (Jan 13, 2015)

I just went back and checked, looks like that video is prit near old, im behind the times i reckon. oh well, I dont take it back


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## bitzer (Jan 13, 2015)

He looked very afraid of the saw and tree. Not comfortable at all. The close ups on his eyeball showed his determination and seriousness of the situation tho.


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## HuskStihl (Jan 14, 2015)

If'n I ever cut down another tree, I'm gonna make a video just like that. I'll definitely edit out all the "monkey humping a football" parts this time. Should be pretty short


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## Wannabe123 (Jan 14, 2015)

HuskStihl said:


> If'n I ever cut down another tree, I'm gonna make a video just like that. I'll definitely edit out all the "monkey humping a football" parts this time. Should be pretty short


And set it to some good early Norwegian black metal, Stormblast by Dimmu Borgir perhaps. Ensure you wear some war paint.


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## hammerlogging (Jan 14, 2015)

4x4American said:


> I just went back and checked, looks like that video is prit near old, im behind the times i reckon. oh well, I dont take it back


That's not a back cut, that's a common way to release the "trigger" when using bore cutting. Bore cutting is common with hardwood.


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## 4x4American (Jan 15, 2015)

hammerlogging said:


> That's not a back cut, that's a common way to release the "trigger" when using bore cutting. Bore cutting is common with hardwood.


Could be, but that's quite a distance to travel for a trigger. Kinda defeats the purpose. They don't show it close enough for me to tell. I wonder how long it took for him to cut that tree, with the cameraman saying things like wait hold on a second you need to look more serious, and where's your spacesuit top!?


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## hammerlogging (Jan 15, 2015)

i'm thinking several hours. maybe I need more drama in my style.

Yeah, way too much trigger wood. I don't like that term, "trigger", but it seems to be the universal term

at 32 seconds I think you see a little burst where the tension is released when the trigger bypasses the bore cut, and the characteristic fast fall after release, with a back cut the falling progresses and accelerates in a different way. You think the Germans are gonna show a backcut?


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## treeslayer2003 (Jan 15, 2015)

Joe you don't cut like that much do ya? not pickin or nuthin..........i guess there is guys that fall big stuff that way.


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## hammerlogging (Jan 15, 2015)

I'd rather not but on bigger timber with heavy lean and heavy tops you should. Anyone with know how in my timber should agree, and the best ones do. Think big northern red oak. Depends on felling direction vs lean, how heavy the crown is and how far out it is crowned out, also in places where there is excessive grape vine or standing dead it allows for a lot more time for escaping. The tree that guy cut, looked straight up and down, unnecessary.

There are so many more important things, I don't fault anyone for reverting to basics, and it is very safe for our timber. I'm more concerned with where someone places their fuel, if time management and productivity is the issue.

Depends on when and where, as to how often. Some days only one or 2 trees, some days most trees. (the timber ones...)


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## bitzer (Jan 15, 2015)

On the real big heavy topped oaks its tuff to get away from leaving some kind of a holding post or trigger so you can get the rest cut up to avoid pulling a ton of fibers when coming off the stump. There are other ways to do it though. The last time I bore cut a tree it was a super hairy situation and I needed to get out of there asap. Thats about the only time I do and I can count on my hands how many times a year I do that.


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## HuskStihl (Jan 15, 2015)

Boring is like putting stuff into slow-motion for a while. You can set stuff up without having to power thru to avoid pulling or chairing. If I had Bitz' or TS's skill I'd never "GOL" stuff, but I don't.


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## treeslayer2003 (Jan 15, 2015)

i have done it on real heavy leaners......i don't like it, i'll do almost any thing else if i think it will work.


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## RandyMac (Jan 15, 2015)

cut one hollowed, cat-faced Red Cedar, bastard had five pillars holding it up, fearful lean, cut the leg up front, started on the rest, damned thing shifted back and forth like a 15 year old boy talking to pretty girl. Went 102" at the cut, whittled the sumbeach with an XL12, worked on the inside some, came out looking like a coal miner.


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## madhatte (Jan 15, 2015)

What's with European cutters not using the dawgs? Do they _like_ working harder than they have to?


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## RandyMac (Jan 15, 2015)

madhatte said:


> What's with European cutters not using the dawgs? Do they _like_ working harder than they have to?


trees are small, gotta make the job last


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## madhatte (Jan 16, 2015)

¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## Spotted Owl (Jan 16, 2015)

madhatte said:


> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯



Why do you know how to do this?



Owl


----------



## RandyMac (Jan 16, 2015)

Spotted Owl said:


> Why do you know how to do this?
> 
> 
> 
> Owl


government employee


----------



## 4x4American (Jan 16, 2015)

hammerlogging said:


> I'd rather not but on bigger timber with heavy lean and heavy tops you should. Anyone with know how in my timber should agree, and the best ones do. Think big northern red oak. Depends on felling direction vs lean, how heavy the crown is and how far out it is crowned out, also in places where there is excessive grape vine or standing dead it allows for a lot more time for escaping. The tree that guy cut, looked straight up and down, unnecessary.
> 
> There are so many more important things, I don't fault anyone for reverting to basics, and it is very safe for our timber. I'm more concerned with where someone places their fuel, if time management and productivity is the issue.
> 
> Depends on when and where, as to how often. Some days only one or 2 trees, some days most trees. (the timber ones...)



on heavy leaners its good to bore the heart. on hickory its always a good idea to bore the heart.


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## treeslayer2003 (Jan 16, 2015)

4x4American said:


> on heavy leaners its good to bore the heart. on hickory its always a good idea to bore the heart.


yes......from the face. gutted is what we call it .
i normaly would do it to any big white oak........had to turn one 90* the other day so i just blocked it. didn't even have to wedge, tho i did palm one in. it turned beutifuly and pulled no fiber. just trimmed off the block strip.


----------



## madhatte (Jan 16, 2015)

Spotted Owl said:


> Why do you know how to do this?
> 
> 
> 
> Owl



I saw it somewhere and looked it up later and then just copypasted it. I'm not actually anywhere near that clever.


----------



## 4x4American (Jan 16, 2015)

treeslayer2003 said:


> yes......from the face. gutted is what we call it .
> i normaly would do it to any big white oak........had to turn one 90* the other day so i just blocked it. didn't even have to wedge, tho i did palm one in. it turned beutifuly and pulled no fiber. just trimmed off the block strip.


right you are. just stick the bar in and tickle it a bit. Then commence to make a regular back cut. Another reason why I prefer humboldts. you can bore the heart out without the handle bars getting in the way.


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## 4x4American (Jan 16, 2015)

I call it field dressed


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## treeslayer2003 (Jan 16, 2015)

4x4American said:


> I call it field dressed


lol, thats a good word for it........lots of folks won't understand either way. really its just getting rid of compression wood.


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## bitzer (Jan 17, 2015)

If one side of the hinge isn't cut off then the heart is gone on all my sawtimber. Almost always a snipe with the face too.

Joes talkin about big heavy sonsabitches. 

Its all about how the tree comes off the stump.


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## joesawer (Jan 17, 2015)

I had a bunch of hickory storm wood that was leaned way over. Most of the rest of the trees where on the ground but the hickory and a few elms held but where leaned about thirty or more degrees. 
Trying not to bust them wide open in a massive barber chair was a real challenge. They where tall and the crown had them bowed like a leaf spring.
I tried the bore cut on them but they kept setting down on the bar as soon as I tried to put any kind of face cut in them. After much cussing bar pinching and a few scary moments. I settled for reaming in a bore cut a few inches from the bottom side, then doing something of a coos bay on the remaining wood and and just dealing with some fiber pull and the bottom side peeling off.


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## treeslayer2003 (Jan 17, 2015)

pin hinge, i have done that.......don't like it......some times there is just not a good way.

you were in the south at the time? i didn't think there was much hickory in cali. 

sorry, i think i remember you sayin you cut all over........i could be corn fused, its gettin late here


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## joesawer (Jan 18, 2015)

Yes that was in Alabama a few years ago. They had over 100 tornadoes in one day and some serious straight line winds. I got conned into salvaging some of the storm damage for a couple months.


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## joesawer (Jan 18, 2015)

I wish there was some hickory or pecan in California to smoke meat with lol


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## treeslayer2003 (Jan 18, 2015)

now that hickory brings good money, i don't mind cuttin it all the sudden lol.


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## SliverPicker (Jan 21, 2015)

joe, you can use alder, as you know.


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## coltont (Jan 24, 2015)

I think I'd pay good money for someone to learn me how to cut big white oak and hickory without boring and with no fiber pull from the butt.


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## HuskStihl (Jan 24, 2015)

coltont said:


> I think I'd pay good money for someone to learn me how to cut big white oak and hickory without boring and with no fiber pull from the butt.


Will you pay my airfare?
J/K


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## coltont (Jan 24, 2015)

Ha !!! I'll mail the check the second Tuesday of next week.


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## bitzer (Jan 24, 2015)

Does gutting the heart from the face count as boring?


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## bitzer (Jan 24, 2015)

The main thing is understanding yer compression and tension wood.


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## coltont (Jan 24, 2015)

I'd like to watch someone cut a white oak that's say 4 foot on the stump without boring it. Gutting the heart only. Chasing it from the back.


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## coltont (Jan 24, 2015)

One like that.


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## Gypo Logger (Jan 24, 2015)

There is only one way to fall a tree. You walk up to it, saw in hand, look up to the crown, say a lil prayer and respectfully place your felling cuts.


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## HuskStihl (Jan 24, 2015)

How deep a face are you allowing, and how fast is u'r saw?


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## HuskStihl (Jan 24, 2015)

Also, does "coos bay-ing" it a little count?


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## coltont (Jan 24, 2015)

That particular tree I didn't notch any deeper than usual cause it was pretty dammed straight. Typical white oak just a monster Gutted the center. 28 inch bar. 660 that is well broke in an rips pretty good.


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## treeslayer2003 (Jan 24, 2015)

coltont said:


> I'd like to watch someone cut a white oak that's say 4 foot on the stump without boring it. Gutting the heart only. Chasing it from the back.


block it


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## coltont (Jan 24, 2015)

Want to come show me!!!!!??!! Is it much faster doing that style of cutting?


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## treeslayer2003 (Jan 24, 2015)

wish i could lol. no, its a little slower but my loads do much better this way. you can't jump a 4' oak. if its faster or slower than your way i couldn't tell ya. why are you wanting faster on them big sticks? more important to not have fiber pull.


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## coltont (Jan 24, 2015)

I'm not wanting faster at all. Just looking to learn some new tricks.


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## RandyMac (Jan 24, 2015)

what do you mean by "jump"


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## treeslayer2003 (Jan 24, 2015)

slick stump........i never do it any more. have you got any block pics for Colton to see?


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## treeslayer2003 (Jan 24, 2015)

Colton you will have to forget those shallow notches if you want to back cut them. and you will have slightly taller stumps.


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## coltont (Jan 24, 2015)

I'll stick to they way I do it now a days. Those high stumps are hell on your back when you plow over them with a 28L26s


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## treeslayer2003 (Jan 24, 2015)

lol, yes i know. i try to cut back to front when i can so not running over them. bear in mind that most trees don't need fancy cuts. but when its ultra high value or needs alot of steering i do what i need to.


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## coltont (Jan 24, 2015)

I like making them listen with the skidder


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## treeslayer2003 (Jan 24, 2015)

i do that if i have to fall one in a yard........there are limits to that lol.


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## coltont (Jan 24, 2015)

Like when your pulling a hard back leaning prick. Diff locked driving forward with the winch reeling in till you catch a stump?


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## treeslayer2003 (Jan 24, 2015)

yea kinda.........i have pulled off some swings ya wouldn't believe........i surprise my self some times.


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## coltont (Jan 24, 2015)

Kinda fun surprising yourself with how good you can be sometimes huh


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## northmanlogging (Jan 24, 2015)

Not real familiar with oak, I'd just coos it, big bastard like that would get the T version, maybe gut it? T Coos lets you establish your hold wood and what not, just like a bore, only the "strap" goes most of the way through the middle.

Guy could probably nose through most of the T's leg and leave a bit of a strap, never using the back of the bar, unless you got one of them east coast wraps and have trouble running the saw wrong side up...


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## Woody912 (Jan 24, 2015)

hammerlogging said:


> That's not a back cut, that's a common way to release the "trigger" when using bore cutting. Bore cutting is common with hardwood.



Seems to be the standard around here cutting hardwood with any lean at all, at least that is what the stumps tell me


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## treeslayer2003 (Jan 24, 2015)

where is bitzer with pics?!?!?


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## HuskStihl (Jan 24, 2015)

Block face going. Falls a long way before coming off the stump or pulling.
If you had a mdavlee chain and a hot 390 you could chase the hinge to the end


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## hammerlogging (Jan 24, 2015)

coltont said:


> I think I'd pay good money for someone to learn me how to cut big white oak and hickory without boring and with no fiber pull from the butt.


Forget it, in timber like that I'd pay you big money to do it just the way you are. Medium sized, and without head lean, sure, but wood like that needs to be done just right.
I don't necessarily agree with the deeper face either, cause you build a lot more tension in your backcut wood.
Coos bay functions really can do a lot for you, how you progress your back cut so you get a lot of wood cut before movement will expand your ability to backcut more.
Boring the heart is always good insurance. just a jab with the corner of the tip when the face falls out.
White oak and hickory, you named it, those are the 2 that will really show you when you've not done everything perfectly. Open faces help prevent fiber pull, but clearly you know that.
There is a time for experimenting, and a time for fundamentals, choose wrong and you can bust wood, or, worse.


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## bitzer (Jan 25, 2015)

9 times out of 10 the tension wood pulls out of the stump. Great for steerage also instead of the side or in compliment with it. If the stick is straight up and down there is no reason to bore it. I don't care what it is. Even a little head lean you gotta chase if you do it right. You need to know that you've cut all you wood when coming from the far side to the near. Like seeing through the tree as if it were transparent. It can be done and done well. That is what makes it fun. Therein lies the patience and the art of timber falling. 

I cant fiddle with pics on this machine and the lapper aint working right.


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## coltont (Jan 25, 2015)

As long as it's not a tree the size of that one I posted a picture of I'll generally just bore in the leaning side and chase it. It's it's got a little to much size I'll pick one of the root flairs and poke my nose through it and leave the strap hold till I get the other side cut.


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## hammerlogging (Jan 25, 2015)

Well run a longer bar and you can do it all from one side, all from the back. try it. go with a 32", or more.


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## hammerlogging (Jan 25, 2015)

bitzer said:


> 9 times out of 10 the tension wood pulls out of the stump. Great for steerage also instead of the side or in compliment with it. If the stick is straight up and down there is no reason to bore it. I don't care what it is. Even a little head lean you gotta chase if you do it right. You need to know that you've cut all you wood when coming from the far side to the near. Like seeing through the tree as if it were transparent. It can be done and done well. That is what makes it fun. Therein lies the patience and the art of timber falling.
> 
> I cant fiddle with pics on this machine and the lapper aint working right.


I agree. Just don't compromise your safety chasing one with head lean.


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## bitzer (Jan 26, 2015)

hammerlogging said:


> I agree. Just don't compromise your safety chasing one with head lean.


Thats the tricky part. Knowing the limit. My ultimate goal is to get home at the end of the day in one piece.


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## bitzer (Jan 26, 2015)

Colton you need yer saw hopped up and a longer bar and the right chain. Thats a huge step in the right direction. 

I gotta go kill some swamp timber. . .


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## bitzer (Jan 26, 2015)

If the cut is opening faster than I like I will get in behind the hinge and work in, but only when the far side of the back has already been cut. 

Otherwise I love full throttle backcuts.


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## HuskStihl (Jan 26, 2015)

bitzer said:


> I love full throttle backcuts.


 
Me tooooooooo........
FWIW


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## northmanlogging (Jan 26, 2015)

Is it sick and wrong that I really like chasing the hinge when I really should be running like a fat little gurl? Watching the top move and lighting the bark on fire with a few choice words... Turn you @#% !# ^%! $ ^#$ [email protected]!#!$# ^ $^&& *^ %#^#% % and die you #%[email protected][email protected] %# &% &#% licker...


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## chucker (Jan 26, 2015)

northmanlogging said:


> Is it sick and wrong that I really like chasing the hinge when I really should be running like a fat little gurl? Watching the top move and lighting the bark on fire with a few choice words... Turn you @#% !# ^%! $ ^#$ [email protected]!#!$# ^ $^&& *^ %#^#% % and die you #%[email protected][email protected] %# &% &#% licker...


! true words of a good veneer cutter, besides chasing the hinge to the end for a better piece of wood for the "running fat little school gurl"......lol


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## joesawer (Jan 28, 2015)

coltont said:


> I think I'd pay good money for someone to learn me how to cut big white oak and hickory without boring and with no fiber pull from the butt.


Just exactly how much money is good money lol


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## coltont (Jan 28, 2015)

50 yen


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## BeatCJ (Jan 28, 2015)

And now we know where you're sending your logs.


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## treeslayer2003 (Jan 28, 2015)

lol, alot of um go there now.........hey who ever has the money.


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## coltont (Jan 28, 2015)

We used to sell veneer logs to this Chinese guy we called uncle William. He'd bring two women with him and we'd clip the logs and they would spray the end.


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## bitzer (Jan 28, 2015)

Its about time they buy our products anyway... 

I think you mean unker wirram


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## BeatCJ (Jan 29, 2015)

Oh yeah, I'm all for exporting enough timber to even up the balance of trade. At least we have ONE industry that can compete in the international marketplace.


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## Ferguson system (Mar 19, 2016)

I don't know if this is the right thread to post in, but i'll leave it here anyways.

I took down a Poppulus tremula this week. Fences on two sides, a steep slope on the third side with the main road at the bottom and a bridge with a busy walkway on the 4th side. The tree was leaning over the walkway and I had left my climbing kit at home. The solution was to fell it over one of the fences.


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## Westboastfaller (Mar 25, 2016)

I'm not to sure


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