# Chainsaw Mill guide fixture....



## gink595 (May 13, 2009)

*Need opionions, Chainsaw Mill guide fixture....*

For lack of better term, I've been thinking non stop on an easier way to make cants with out alot of set up time. I would like opionions on my idea. Here are some drawings I did over my lunch break, would it work????

I could rotate the guide 90* in the fixture.


----------



## synness4 (May 13, 2009)

:monkey::monkey:sorry I don't see what you mean but the bottom pic looks like a flinstone ride.


----------



## gink595 (May 13, 2009)

LOL, It would make a helluva yard roller if anything else

Seriously though I want to end up with a 4 sided beam.






If I lagged the "hub to the center or where ever of the log. I could mill 4 sides of the log with the "hub" staying stationary and moving the guide fixture 90* to do the next side of the beam.... I guess I would only need it to do 2 sides and then I could have the Alaskan right on the beam to do the other sides.


----------



## Ollbuster (May 13, 2009)

Looks like it would be hard to get the mill on the guide board.
Also at least with my mill the weight would deflect the guide board pretty bad.
Really digging the indexed center hub though...
Dan


----------



## gink595 (May 13, 2009)

Ollbuster said:


> Looks like it would be hard to get the mill on the guide board.
> Also at least with my mill the weight would deflect the guide board pretty bad.
> Really digging the indexed center hub though...
> Dan



Yeah I thought about that after I posted and realized how and teh hell are you going to get the mill in there, I guess you'd have to set it in first than put your straight guide in afterwards.

I agree you'd have to find something rigid for a guide or reinforced 2X? so it would bow in the middle.


----------



## Kicker_92 (May 13, 2009)

It may be difficult to get rid of the play between the two square tubes mounted to the log. Perhaps consider using round tubing or a wheel bearing and drill for some indexing pins instead?

Off Topic: Which software are you using? It looks like Autodesk Inventor?


----------



## gink595 (May 13, 2009)

Kicker_92 said:


> It may be difficult to get rid of the play between the two square tubes mounted to the log. Perhaps consider using round tubing or a wheel bearing and drill for some indexing pins instead?
> 
> Off Topic: Which software are you using? It looks like Autodesk Inventor?



It's Sketch Up Pro7


----------



## gink595 (May 13, 2009)

Kicker_92 said:


> It may be difficult to get rid of the play between the two square tubes mounted to the log. Perhaps consider using round tubing or a wheel bearing and drill for some indexing pins instead?
> 
> Off Topic: Which software are you using? It looks like Autodesk Inventor?



My original thought was round tube, but I liked the idea of square because of it's simplicity of being able to index every 90* without a bunch of fuss.


----------



## Maldeney (May 13, 2009)

gink595 said:


> My original thought was round tube, but I liked the idea of square because of it's simplicity of being able to index every 90* without a bunch of fuss.




How would you indicate from one end of the log to the other to eliminate any "twist." Seems like unless you had an extremely rigid guide board depending on the length of the log you would find it difficult to ensure a straight cut. As far as bowing in the middle that could still be controlled with a little shimming. 


Slick Idea though!!!


----------



## gink595 (May 13, 2009)

Maldeney said:


> How would you indicate from one end of the log to the other to eliminate any "twist." Seems like unless you had an extremely rigid guide board depending on the length of the log you would find it difficult to ensure a straight cut. As far as bowing in the middle that could still be controlled with a little shimming.
> 
> 
> Slick Idea though!!!



Put a level on each end of the guide board to make sure it is true at both ends. You would probably want to do that when you go to lag the "hub" on. Put a level on the top edge of the flange and after that the rest of teh fixture should hold fairly true, you might have to shim a little if needed.


Like this:


----------



## Maldeney (May 13, 2009)

Gotcha! It would be simple enough to build one to and trial for any short comings. Thinking about getting the saw in after set up; would you have to secure the guide board with anything other than just a "C" clamp? If not you could put the saw in first then lay your board in and do any needed shimming.


----------



## gink595 (May 13, 2009)

Maldeney said:


> Gotcha! It would be simple enough to build one to and trial for any short comings. Thinking about getting the saw in after set up; would you have to secure the guide board with anything other than just a "C" clamp? If not you could put the saw in first then lay your board in and do any needed shimming.



Thats what I was thinking it would be cheap enough to build. If it didn't work oh well.


----------



## BobL (May 13, 2009)

It's a good idea and somewhere (not on AS) I have seen something very similar. They used round tube instead of square and were using a rail mill instead of an Alaskan + guide board which made getting the mill on and off a lot easier.

The play in the square tube could easily be removed by a serious locking bolt.

The way to get the mill on is to have a short board clamped across one end and put the mill on inside section of that board. Then slide the longer board through. I have done this a few times with my baby milling rig (see link in sig below) and it works OK

Your will definitely need support along the log under the board but that should be no big deal.

A digital angle finder is a very good instrument to use to detect twist in the guide board. I ZERO mine at one end and then take it to the other and adjust the log rails etc until the angle reads zero there as well

With my big mill I sometimes have similar problems in dismounting the mill in unusual milling situations like this. 




Here one end of the log dips well below the other end meaning I can't just sit the rails on the log so I use what I call my "vertical offset ladder", You can see the chain will exit the log well before the end. Getting the big mill off the rails at this point is a PITA so I usually just get someone to help me. If I am on my own I leave the bar in the cut and crank up the height adjusters on the mill. This lifts the mill clear of the rails and then I pull the log rails thru - awkward but not impossible.

Anyway I reckon you should persist as it is a good idea in principle but as usual the practice is when any problems come out.


----------



## gink595 (May 13, 2009)

Thanks for the tips, I like the idea of a digital angle finder. What ever I do I want it to be easy to setup. I have most of the materials handy in my steel drop pile so maybe this weekend I will weld a set up and try it out.


----------



## Brmorgan (May 14, 2009)

I like the idea, but not so much as a guide for an Alaskan mill. It's a very good setup for a Mini-Mill or rail mill rig though. And as a bonus, the vertical deflection of the guide board doesn't mean bugger all to a Mini-Mill. As stated you could use the Mini-Mill twice to give one square edge to the log, and then use the Alaskan to either slab from there or square the other two sides for a beam. It looks best for logs under perhaps 28" diameter - much bigger than that and a Mini-Mill can start to become inaccurate due to a longer bar being able to flex and deflect in the cut, since the nose of the bar isn't held rigid.

FWIW you could always use a small magnetic torpedo level to get the base sockets on the same plane. But I do like the digital angle finder idea better (just not the cost of a good one).


----------



## LAndrews (May 14, 2009)

It might be a bit sturdier if your hub was made with four sets of holes that pairs of tubes would drop through - sort of like how a Shopsmith table is mounted. The tubes would help to provide support for the ladder-board supports and prevent flexing. If the hubs were square and about six inches deep, you could lay the bar on them and feed the ladder through the CSM...nice. 

Another tip might be to use a three bolt system for mounting the hubs. Put a nice big pivot bolt in the center and two tie-down bolts on opposite corners. It's really nice to be able to pivot the mounts somewhat so that it can be aligned to improve grade or just find plumb. 

Neat work! +1 for both creativity and using Sketchup...very cool.


----------



## BIG JAKE (May 14, 2009)

I like it. I think it would work well for a mini mill for making cants/beams. Let us know how you like it compared to some of the other methods on here. Seems like a quick accurate way to rotate 90 deg every time.


----------



## gink595 (May 21, 2009)

Alright fella's, I finally had enough time to do a fun project. Maldeney and I put together the milling fixture. It is a bit different than the drawing. Maldeney had a great idea to center a nail in the middle of the hub and hammer that into the log to assist in centering the hub, after you nail the hub in than you can center it up and plumb it and sink the lag bolts in. You can knida see the nail it is welded in the plate. 

It's maiden voyage will be at Eric jeepers GTG Saturday so we will get some pics and give a full report. Some other millers will be there to critque it!!! Dustytools and Stipes, give us hell guys


----------



## BIG JAKE (May 21, 2009)

Way to go Gink-you rock! Give us a full report(with pics) after the GTG! opcorn:

On the rail, if you nail or screw 2X4's together forming a U, you won't have to worry about sagging and could stand on it and it won't bow across 8'. If you have something else figured disregard any way have fun


----------



## Maldeney (May 22, 2009)

BIG JAKE said:


> Way to go Gink-you rock! Give us a full report(with pics) after the GTG! opcorn:
> 
> On the rail, if you nail or screw 2X4's together forming a U, you won't have to worry about sagging and could stand on it and it won't bow across 8'. If you have something else figured disregard any way have fun




I think I know what you are getting at Jake, but can you explain a little further to clarify about the "U."


----------



## BobL (May 22, 2009)

Looking gooooooD!


----------



## demographic (May 23, 2009)

Brmorgan said:


> FWIW you could always use a small magnetic torpedo level to get the base sockets on the same plane. But I do like the digital angle finder idea better (just not the cost of a good one).



Even two straight edges used as WINDING STICKS would do it.


----------



## gink595 (May 24, 2009)

Well we tried the fixture out at the GTG yesterday. It did okay, I think setup was realtivly easy. I didn't really need to extend the horizontal tubes out as far as I did but it still works you just need to find a longer board.
I did half with Stipes mini mill and his J-red (which I liked) and the other half the fixture and alaskan mill. They both have pro's and cons:

The fixture easily sets up but you have to rotate the log in order to cut that second cut at a 90. It does take more time to do so because of extra adjustment on the mill and flipping the log whereas the mini just mark, screw and cut, but you eat a lot of sawdust!!!!

Here are some pics of the GTG.


----------



## dustytools (May 24, 2009)

I think that your milling was a big hit at the GTG Gink. The milling fixture of yours may be copied sometime in the near future if you dont mind. Nice job!!


----------



## gink595 (May 24, 2009)

dustytools said:


> I think that your milling was a big hit at the GTG Gink. The milling fixture of yours may be copied sometime in the near future if you dont mind. Nice job!!



Yeah it was the highlight of my day! Getting to try new stuff out is always cool. 

Have at it, I'm sure you wil improve on it. I would have done a couple things different looking at it now. I'll have to use it more to elaborate on that!! At least it is a cheap build, what I didn't have at home Maldeney took from the steel mill's melt pile at his work, total cost was around 2.00 for the lags and fasteners


----------



## Brmorgan (May 24, 2009)

Looks like it went pretty well! Cant looks nice and square too. I think I'll end up fabbing something up based on this design. I would be making it specifically for smaller and shorter logs though so I would definitely make all the horizontal sections shorter, like you said. I would also solely be using the rail mill with it and not the Alaskan, so I don't need the extra length past the ends of the log for clearance. This design has some real potential for making box-heart beams out of small logs, say a 6X6 out of an 8" log or something. Should be easy to center the jig on the pith center of the log too.


----------



## BobL (May 24, 2009)

Nice pics Gink. It's always good to see sawdust fly.


----------



## stipes (May 25, 2009)

*Hi Gink!!!*

That was a blast to watch you mill that sycamore up!!! Good job on it!!!
Liked the fixture...Worked out pretty slick....The adjustment makes it sweet and where the clamps is behind instead of infront of the mill made it nice... I had a great day with you all!!!


----------



## gink595 (May 25, 2009)

Likewise, It was great to meet you and put a face with a name. Again thanks for bringing the mini mill and that sweet johnnyred. Hopefully we'll be able to do that again in the future.


----------



## BIG JAKE (May 25, 2009)

Maldeney said:


> I think I know what you are getting at Jake, but can you explain a little further to clarify about the "U."


Just lay a 2x4 or 6 flat-butt two more up to the flat one at 90 deg(standing upright or on end) one on each side. In the construction world an L is called a strongback and very rigid. Nail or screw in place. If you form a U it would be stronger and easier to level on a log. I don't have drawing software or would draw it for you. BTW from the looks of the milling pics at GTG whatever you guys did looks like it worked out great! Nice work


----------



## Maldeney (May 26, 2009)

BIG JAKE said:


> Just lay a 2x4 or 6 flat-butt two more up to the flat one at 90 deg(standing upright or on end) one on each side. In the construction world an L is called a strongback and very rigid. Nail or screw in place. If you form a U it would be stronger and easier to level on a log. I don't have drawing software or would draw it for you. BTW from the looks of the milling pics at GTG whatever you guys did looks like it worked out great! Nice work




Gotcha... That's what I though you were getting at. 

Gink fixture worked pretty well. As he mentioned though ther are some changes that can be made to make it better already.


----------

