# small chain saws..pros and cons?



## Jacey (Apr 1, 2008)

I am ready to retire the second of two small Echo Chain saws, the only saws I've had any experience with over the past 15 years of landscape work. Don't do alot of cutting, but when I do I want something light and dependable. Something Echo and small foreign sports cars have in common I've noticed, is that precious quality of not running right unless it's blue skies and 72 degrees. I never minded that much because I'm pretty much the same way. However now i am interested in the new Stihl, looking at the MS `80 C-BE and the arbor saw NEW ITEM..MS 192 T C-E. Anybody got any insights on either of these for small trees and limbwork? And was it all my fault that the Echo took on my and my Alpha Romero Spyder's temperment?


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## windthrown (Apr 1, 2008)

My experience with smaller saws is that they are all tempramental, from the mere fact that they have smaller engines and carbs that are more sensetive to small pieces of crud and any variation in moisture, temperature and what-not. They also flood really easy. I have to leave the summer-winter flippey-thingey in summer mode on my 210, regardless of how cold it is, or it will not run right. The baby Echo often times does not start; it goes from dry to flooding in one pull. I have to open the throttle and drop start it hard half the time. I have gone through several starter ropes becasue of that. 

The bigger saws tend to start w/o problems. More room for error, and variation. I am HOPING to get a Dolmar 350 or 420 that has better starting features (spring assist and a gas primer). I have yet to try one, or even see one though. Word is that they will be out in April, or June, or September...


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## joecool85 (Apr 1, 2008)

windthrown said:


> My experience with smaller saws is that they are all tempramental, from the mere fact that they have smaller engines and carbs that are more sensetive to small pieces of crud and any variation in moisture, temperature and what-not. They also flood really easy. I have to leave the summer-winter flippey-thingey in summer mode on my 210, regardless of how cold it is, or it will not run right. The baby Echo often times does not start; it goes from dry to flooding in one pull. I have to open the throttle and drop start it hard half the time. I have gone through several starter ropes becasue of that.
> 
> The bigger saws tend to start w/o problems. More room for error, and variation. I am HOPING to get a Dolmar 350 or 420 that has better starting features (spring assist and a gas primer). I have yet to try one, or even see one though. Word is that they will be out in April, or June, or September...



How small is "small"? I've not had any problems starting my 36cc Craftsman/Poulan 2250, it pops on the 2nd pull and runs on the 3rd pretty much no matter how warm or cold it is outside. Same thing with my dad's 42cc Poulan 2375.

**edit**
I should note that I don't use the primer on either saw.


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## Jacey (Apr 1, 2008)

windthrown said:


> My experience with smaller saws is that they are all tempramental, from the mere fact that they have smaller engines and carbs that are more sensetive to small pieces of crud and any variation in moisture, temperature and what-not. They also flood really easy. I have to leave the summer-winter flippey-thingey in summer mode on my 210, regardless of how cold it is, or it will not run right. The baby Echo often times does not start; it goes from dry to flooding in one pull. I have to open the throttle and drop start it hard half the time. I have gone through several starter ropes becasue of that.
> 
> The bigger saws tend to start w/o problems. More room for error, and variation. I am HOPING to get a Dolmar 350 or 420 that has better starting features (spring assist and a gas primer). I have yet to try one, or even see one though. Word is that they will be out in April, or June, or September...



Well, the Stihl MS 180 C_BE is boasting an "Intellicarb" compensating carburetor, tooless Quick Chain Adjuster, and Easy2start tm system..supposedly addressing all those complaints and the complaint not mentioned of the hassle with tightening chains with tools. This is the one I am leaning towards and just wondered if anyone had any feedback on it?


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## kennertree (Apr 1, 2008)

The ms 180 is not a pro saw and the 192 is. The 192 is alot better quality than the 180.


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## Jacey (Apr 1, 2008)

kennertree said:


> The ms 180 is not a pro saw and the 192 is. The 192 is alot better quality than the 180.



Ok..I don't recall seeing one of them at the store..would you know the price difference? And what is the difference between it and the 180..which i believe was selling for 259..What do you think of the arbor saw? MS 192 T C-E for 309.00?


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## gremlin (Apr 1, 2008)

Jacey said:


> Ok..I don't recall seeing one of them at the store..would you know the price difference? And what is the difference between it and the 180..which i believe was selling for 259..What do you think of the arbor saw? MS 192 T C-E for 309.00?



If your just cutting small brush and already downed limbs or trees a top handle saw might not be the way to go. I have a 017/170 that i have had great luck out of. never gives me a fit starting hot or cold. always starts when temps are low. its small and lightweight and packs a mighty punch for no more than what it is. thats my vote


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## hornett224 (Apr 1, 2008)

*personally,for what you are going to spend.................*

i would look into a dolmar 5100 or a husky 350.small saws seem to be more finicky and are more difficult to work on.i also don't like the fact you have to spend more time bending over with the micro saws.


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## pbtree (Apr 2, 2008)

If you are not going to climb, do not run a top handle saw. Beyond that...

I would look at the Husky 350, maybe the 359, or the Dolmar 5100... Nothing like a little performance for the money!


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## Ed*L (Apr 2, 2008)

This would be the MS192 to look at.
http://www.stihlusa.com/chainsaws/MS192CE.html

No top handle.

I've got the top handle version, it's a nice little saw, a little slow when compared to the ms200 but it's about 1/2 the price of a ms200 saw.
The 192 is not a "homeowner" saw like Stihl makes it out to be, it is a pro saw that should give you many years of service when properly cared for.

Ed


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## 2FatGuys (Apr 2, 2008)

Ed*L said:


> This would be the MS192 to look at.
> http://www.stihlusa.com/chainsaws/MS192CE.html
> 
> No top handle.
> ...



Re-read the Stihl website. The 192CE is listed as an "occasional use" saw, just like the 180CB or 180CBE. It is lighter than the 180, but also .3 hp less power. The 192CE is not considered a pro level saw or even a "mid-range use" saw.

That being said, we own a 170 and a 180. I got them to use to teach my children about chainsaw safety and use (VERY closely supervised). However, we do occasionally use them on a job site when dealing with brush and desiring a smaller, lighter saw. If properly cared for, they perform well and reliably. I will admit that we have done some mild muffler work on both.


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## Ed*L (Apr 2, 2008)

2FatGuys said:


> Re-read the Stihl website. The 192CE is listed as an "occasional use" saw, just like the 180CB or 180CBE. It is lighter than the 180, but also .3 hp less power. The 192CE is not considered a pro level saw or even a "mid-range use" saw.
> 
> That being said, we own a 170 and a 180. I got them to use to teach my children about chainsaw safety and use (VERY closely supervised). However, we do occasionally use them on a job site when dealing with brush and desiring a smaller, lighter saw. If properly cared for, they perform well and reliably. I will admit that we have done some mild muffler work on both.



Stihl markets the tail handle ms192 & ms200 as an occasional use saws to keep people away from the top handle saws. They are both the same internally as their top handle pro varsions.

http://www.stihlusa.com/chainsaws/MS192T.html
http://www.stihlusa.com/chainsaws/MS192CE.html

http://www.stihlusa.com/chainsaws/MS200.html
http://www.stihlusa.com/chainsaws/MS200T.html

Ed


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## 2FatGuys (Apr 2, 2008)

Ed*L said:


> Stihl markets the tail handle ms192 & ms200 as an occasional use saws to keep people away from the top handle saws. They are both the same internally as their top handle pro varsions.



I understand that, but if you go read the original poster's profile, you will see that he has a "small landscape company specializing in specialty waterfalls and gardens" and he does "landscape design and installation". That doesn't come across as someone who needs to spend double for a tail handle version of a pro saw. While some of the users of this forum do need pro saws, reliably running 6-10 hours a day, not everyone needs to spend the $$$ in order to have an occasional use saw. He specifically said "Don't do alot of cutting". The majority of posts have been trying to steer him toward a daily use saw. There is a right saw for each use and the 170 / 180 are not as bad for the occasional user as some of the pros here paint them to be. I wouldn't dare expect my 170 or 180 to keep up with my 335XPT or my 394XP, but they do a good job and have been VERY reliable saws.


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## Ed*L (Apr 2, 2008)

The op specifically asked about the ms192T. I suggested the tail handle version and gave my opinion on the saw.

Ed



Jacey said:


> I am ready to retire the second of two small Echo Chain saws, the only saws I've had any experience with over the past 15 years of landscape work. Don't do alot of cutting, but when I do I want something light and dependable. Something Echo and small foreign sports cars have in common I've noticed, is that precious quality of not running right unless it's blue skies and 72 degrees. I never minded that much because I'm pretty much the same way. However now i am interested in the new Stihl, looking at the MS `80 C-BE and the arbor saw NEW ITEM..MS 192 T C-E. Anybody got any insights on either of these for small trees and limbwork? And was it all my fault that the Echo took on my and my Alpha Romero Spyder's temperment?


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## computeruser (Apr 2, 2008)

2FatGuys said:


> Re-read the Stihl website. The 192CE is listed as an "occasional use" saw, just like the 180CB or 180CBE. It is lighter than the 180, but also .3 hp less power. The 192CE is not considered a pro level saw or even a "mid-range use" saw.



Who cares what Stihl's marketing people label them as, really? Occasional versus Pro versus Mid-Range, what do these things really mean? Next thing you know we'll be carrying on about the color of the handle.


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## Jacey (Apr 2, 2008)

2FatGuys said:


> I understand that, but if you go read the original poster's profile, you will see that he has a "small landscape company specializing in specialty waterfalls and gardens" and he does "landscape design and installation". That doesn't come across as someone who needs to spend double for a tail handle version of a pro saw. While some of the users of this forum do need pro saws, reliably running 6-10 hours a day, not everyone needs to spend the $$$ in order to have an occasional use saw. He specifically said "Don't do alot of cutting". The majority of posts have been trying to steer him toward a daily use saw. There is a right saw for each use and the 170 / 180 are not as bad for the occasional user as some of the pros here paint them to be. I wouldn't dare expect my 170 or 180 to keep up with my 335XPT or my 394XP, but they do a good job and have been VERY reliable saws.



Wow! I really appreciate all the input here guys! I am really getting a feel for the subject. Especially appreciate you're investigating my intentions for use. If you think the 180 will work for me...my biggest job right now will be several old crape myrtals that need to be downed, but that shouldn't be a determent for this machine should it? Caliper maybe 9"-10" max, will have to grind stumps. The 180 is locally sold and serviced, like I said earlier, had the easy start, compensating carb, tooless adjustment feature..which seemed to imply an improvement over the baby Echoes of yesteryear??


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## 2FatGuys (Apr 2, 2008)

Ed*L said:


> The op specifically asked about the ms192T. I suggested the tail handle version and gave my opinion on the saw.



No prob... I just assumed (bad to do) that since everyone was reccomending no top handle to him, the fall-back position was the tail handle model he asked about. No harm...


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## 2FatGuys (Apr 2, 2008)

Jacey said:


> Wow! I really appreciate all the input here guys! I am really getting a feel for the subject. Especially appreciate you're investigating my intentions for use. If you think the 180 will work for me...my biggest job right now will be several old crape myrtals that need to be downed, but that shouldn't be a determent for this machine should it? Caliper maybe 9"-10" max, will have to grind stumps. The 180 is locally sold and serviced, like I said earlier, had the easy start, compensating carb, tooless adjustment feature..which seemed to imply an improvement over the baby Echoes of yesteryear??



Our 180 is a CB, not a CBE. I'm not sold on the easy-start system yet.


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## Jacey (Apr 2, 2008)

2FatGuys said:


> I understand that, but if you go read the original poster's profile, you will see that he has a "small landscape company specializing in specialty waterfalls and gardens" and he does "landscape design and installation". That doesn't come across as someone who needs to spend double for a tail handle version of a pro saw. While some of the users of this forum do need pro saws, reliably running 6-10 hours a day, not everyone needs to spend the $$$ in order to have an occasional use saw. He specifically said "Don't do alot of cutting". The majority of posts have been trying to steer him toward a daily use saw. There is a right saw for each use and the 170 / 180 are not as bad for the occasional user as some of the pros here paint them to be. I wouldn't dare expect my 170 or 180 to keep up with my 335XPT or my 394XP, but they do a good job and have been VERY reliable saws.



If this reply replicates, it's because I sent something back but didn't see it show up. That being said, BIG THANX to the scruitiny and attention being taken by the likes of (your name for you not mine)..Two Fat Guys..really appreciate you tweaking the finding of this chain saw for me. I am ready to take down a row of pretty mature 9"-10" caliper crape myrtals that are too big for where they were planted. I want this little saw to do the trick, will it? (talking the 180 Stihl) Am hoping the new improved ie easystartintellicarbtoollesschainadjuster will be just the ticket..and you are right..rarely do much cutting, occasional trips to the woods for cedar for borders..just want a good dependable little saw, as Jacey is a girls name..teehee.and I'd like the handle to be pink, thank you very much.


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## windthrown (Apr 2, 2008)

Well, if you are in the landscape biz, I would opt for a better saw than a 180, and go at least with the 210. I would avoid the 180 mainly as it is only available in the C model stateside now; I prefer the old metal bolt tightening system to the plastic dial system. Several have posted here about breaking the plastic chain tensioning ones, and I have never seen the bolt style system break on any Stihl. The 210 has all the 'real' features that a saw should have, and will take several types of bars and chains. I would get it with a 16 inch 3/8 picco low profile Stihl E bar, sprocket and chain, with a 6 tooth replacable rim style sprocket. 

In my view, the 170 and 180 are just too cheap with the flimsy top that has to be shoved on, and not very large in the motor department. Some people love them though. If you do get that size saw, get the narrow kerf .043 3/8 picco bar and chain. Again, in my experience using a lot of smaller saws for limbing and thinning, I would get a pro-model type saw with more metal and features like adjustable oilers and the like that the Dolmar ps-350 and ps-420 have, or maybe the Stihl rear handle MS192. Personally I am going to dump my 'fleet' of 210-250 saws and get a Dolmar ps-350 as soon as they are available here. 

My 2 cents worth.


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## Freakingstang (Apr 2, 2008)

My small saw is a 5100. I don't see the need for anything smaller, unless you are climbing, even at that I prefer the 5100.


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## windthrown (Apr 2, 2008)

The 5100 certainly has all the features you want in a saw. I would want a lighter smaller one to limb with though, about 40cc and around 8-9 pounds with a picco bar and chain. Something you can climb with if needed. The weight factor becomes more apaprent when pruning trees from the ground (saw higher than your shoulders) and cutting when climbing. Though I know people that climb with 440s. For short ground work, a saw like a 5100 would be fine. 11-some odd pounds, and a lot of power. Especially at the price at places like Amicks has them at. 

Good point though...


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## D Mc (Apr 3, 2008)

Jacey, This is Mrs. D Mc here (S Mc). I can only give feedback on the 170 Stihl. But I have used that as my saw going on its 3rd season. I am the ground crew (not a climber) but I really like its dependability and reliability. It gets used way more than "occasionally" and had no difficulty taking down a long row of elms about the same size you are saying the crape myrtles will be. Bucking up trunk sections, well, I start letting D Mc handle the bigger stuff with his saw. We did do a muffler mod (ok, D Mc did for me). It opens it up and gives it a bit more power. These little chains are very easy to dull, so watch the dirt. Keeping it sharp, cuts super.

S Mc


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## Jacey (Apr 3, 2008)

D Mc said:


> Jacey, This is Mrs. D Mc here (S Mc). I can only give feedback on the 170 Stihl. But I have used that as my saw going on its 3rd season. I am the ground crew (not a climber) but I really like its dependability and reliability. It gets used way more than "occasionally" and had no difficulty taking down a long row of elms about the same size you are saying the crape myrtles will be. Bucking up trunk sections, well, I start letting D Mc handle the bigger stuff with his saw. We did do a muffler mod (ok, D Mc did for me). It opens it up and gives it a bit more power. These little chains are very easy to dull, so watch the dirt. Keeping it sharp, cuts super.
> 
> S Mc



Thanx S. Mc~What do you think about the suggestion that the 180 for the 1/2 lb more, be a better purchase? I think I heard in one of the private messages sent that it would roar with a 14 inch bar..and that's probably what I'd be using..if only my little Echo wasn't such a pain..it truly fits me well..sigh.


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## D Mc (Apr 3, 2008)

Jacey said:


> Thanx S. Mc~What do you think about the suggestion that the 180 for the 1/2 lb more, be a better purchase? I think I heard in one of the private messages sent that it would roar with a 14 inch bar..and that's probably what I'd be using..if only my little Echo wasn't such a pain..it truly fits me well..sigh.



As I said, I can only comment on the 170 not the 180 (unfortunately); however, with that said...I have used my husband's 020 Super and his 192 Stihl which are (I believe) approximately 1 lb different and I couldn't believe how that 1 lb made a difference at the end of the day. The 1/2 lb dif on the 170 to 180 may not make any difference to you. 

I haven't priced the 180 but around here the 170s are under $200 ($189.95 exactly); that's really hard to beat in my eyes. Finding a saw that "fits" is crucial. That's another reason I like the 170. It "fits" me. I'm extremely small and don't like to feel I am being driven by the saw, but rather that I can control it. So pick them both up and see how they balance for you. Good luck and keep me posted.

S Mc


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## treeclimber jul (Apr 3, 2008)

180 Its a great saw for what its intended for 
Also it has a little more power than the 170. I have hade mine for some time and have broke stuff (handle, break attach point) but runs good. 210 has a better air filter though

If you don't use it every day it should last you a long time. I have cut 24" logs with mine.(not recomened)


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## grandpatractor (Apr 3, 2008)

computeruser said:


> Who cares what Stihl's marketing people label them as, really? Occasional versus Pro versus Mid-Range, what do these things really mean? Next thing you know we'll be carrying on about the color of the handle.



Or which one tips over more easily in the back of the pickup.


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## grandpatractor (Apr 3, 2008)

Freakingstang said:


> My small saw is a 5100. I don't see the need for anything smaller, unless you are climbing, even at that I prefer the 5100.



+1 or for a beginner


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## D Mc (Apr 8, 2008)

Jacey, I stopped into our local saw shop today and ended up purchasing a MS 180C. My 170 is in its 3rd season and needing some maintenance so I thought I would get a back up saw. They had both in; so thought I would try the 180 to see if I could tell much difference.

Keeping in mind that I was used to my 170 that was in need of maintenance and the 180 was brand new off the shelf...I could tell a slight difference but really wasn't "wowed" by the difference. The prices were 170 - $189.95 and 180 - $219.95. I can see that the toolless adjuster for the chain will be handy. I also like the metal, aggressive dogs on the 180 for bucking up logs (rather than the plastic, short quassi dogs on the 170). 

It did cut through 10" logs no problem but it is on the first tank of gas...hasn't even broken in yet so wasn't really getting aggressive. We'll see after it breaks in.

Just thought I would let you know my feedback. Contrary to what D Mc will tell you, I didn't buy it just because the bar said "Stihl Miniboss" (I'm really small, hahaha).

S Mc


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