# Come back Tom



## clearance (Dec 5, 2009)

Tom Dunlap should come back on here, he hasn't been around for some time. I forgive him for his misdeeds against me, time to move on. He has a lot of knowledge of trees, more than most of us, 'specially me. 

I have decided to accept ISA arborists and to help them understand powerline treework, instead of not giving them a chance. I was appalled by the actions of some, that asked for crazy things. But its ok, live and let live. 

So, how about it?


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## clearance (Dec 5, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> Tom and I were talking the other day about you and he says you can pack sand!



Be nice.


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## treemandan (Dec 5, 2009)

clearance said:


> Be nice.



From Treeco that was being nice. Are you telling me these ISA guys actually have something to say about how line clearance is done? I swear they have nothing better to do than harp. 
Just the other day one of the guys I sub for was handing me the " look at what the line clearance guys did" crapola. Oh what a crock. Of course this guy wants me to top every other maple tree and he wasn't even ISA BUT I just can't stand when those guys start in with " proper pruning" when it comes to clearing the dam wires. I don't see what is so hard to understand about power line work as it seems so simple- line's clear= job's done.
Oh well, I do feel better knowing Treeco is no longer on the ISA roster.


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## clearance (Dec 5, 2009)

I used to think very lowly of the ISA types in tree work management that have never done tree work themselves. I mean, if you have never done it, how can you tell people how to do it? But I have come to understand that it is better to work with these people than to dismiss them as culls. If they want to call me a hack, thats fine, been called worse things by better people.

Line clearance work ain't that simple. Mistakes can be fatal, no second chance.

Anyways, its all good.


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## chip's-tree (Dec 5, 2009)

clearance said:


> I used to think very lowly of the ISA types in tree work management that have never done tree work themselves. I mean, if you have never done it, how can you tell people how to do it? But I have come to understand that it is better to work with these people than to dismiss them as culls. If they want to call me a hack, thats fine, been called worse things by better people.
> 
> Line clearance work ain't that simple. Mistakes can be fatal, no second chance.
> 
> Anyways, its all good.



I was trained by a line clearance worker----and on occasion I clear a little line if I have too....there is no second chances if you make a mistake for sure--where as with tree service if I drop a limb on a house or something it can be fixed. I agree that there is a lot of managers out there that that are just basically full of BS---try to sound big when they are clueless...they need to get in the field before managment. most of the people that label others as hacks can't do the job themselves....It is only a tree---it can be replaced. so I call proper pruning -what ever the customer wants.


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## treemandan (Dec 5, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> LOL!
> 
> The customer probably knows more about proper pruning.
> 
> ...



Now that would be a legititmate gripe for many reasons and you wouldn't have to be ISA to do it.


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## kennertree (Dec 5, 2009)

:monkey:


TreeCo said:


> LOL!
> 
> The customer probably knows more about proper pruning.
> 
> ...







chip's-tree said:


> I was trained by a line clearance worker


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## treemandan (Dec 5, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> Positive rep points for that!



Well thank you.


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## matt9923 (Dec 5, 2009)

Christ, get a frigging room!


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## chip's-tree (Dec 6, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> LOL!
> 
> The customer probably knows more about proper pruning.
> 
> ...



I said I was trained ( as in general techniques and safety) by a line worker. as for the proper part--I have spent most of my life studying trees so I'm not just a bag of air--like some. plus I have the head of Biology at a local university for a backup. trees are a renewable resource and in great quantity here, that the customer owns, so if they say cut it, I cut it. I was a logger for the first part of my working life so I have a great tendency to just cut it down  I have never spiked a trim job in my life....ISA or any other certs are just a title that does not guarantee the job is done right....


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## clearance (Dec 6, 2009)

I don't want another utility hacks/spurs thread. All I am asking is for us to move on, I was blunt and often mean in the past, others were often not as kind either. Water under the bridge.

Tom has much good advice, I look at his site now and then. He was here, he was an asset to this site. Some one call him and and get him back. Jim.


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 6, 2009)

clearance said:


> I don't want another utility hacks/spurs thread. All I am asking is for us to move on, I was blunt and often mean in the past, others were often not as kind either. Water under the bridge.
> 
> Tom has much good advice, I look at his site now and then. He was here, he was an asset to this site. Some one call him and and get him back. Jim.



How about you call him? 
Jeff


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## mckeetree (Dec 6, 2009)

chip's-tree said:


> so I'm not just a bag of air--like some.



There is plenty of them around here.


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## jrietkerk (Dec 6, 2009)

Tom has much good advice, I look at his site now and then. Jim

Go engage him there - its not worth it on AS, as so many reduce discussion topics to arguments, and the arguments to absurdity, especially when utility work is brought up. Often your fault, as you admit. You should be the one calling him up. This site has been good to mainly watch the progression of tree workers like yourself, who've moved from being violently against anything that you aren't familiar with (like anything other than line clearance or tree removals) to admiting the merits of other techniques and practices, and the merits of arborists who might do more than just climb in spurs, or maybe not climb at all. You've come a long way, and brought a lot of hits to this site. If you're not getting a pay cheque from AS, you should be.


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## Tom Dunlap (Dec 6, 2009)

John Sanborn sent me a link to this thread...thanks John!

What has always bothered me is narrow-minded thinking and broad brush statements...not matter the source. To say that all ISA-CAs have no clue about tree work and line clearance specifically is rubbish. To say that line clearance tree climbers don't know their job is just as much rubbish.

The disagreements that I have with Darin and his control of knowledge to and from AS is the main reason that I don't come around here very much.

Besides there is plenty of TREE talk to BUZZ about and I spend my time there. I'm really easy to find, I post under my own name...except for the infamous George Hayduke Episode...hahahaha!

And...Jim quoted me right...attack attitude is rubbish, I don't care to be around that sort of talk. There is a Utility forum of you want to talk TREEs and the BUZZ from the lines...hehehhe!

Have a great week!

Tom


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## treemandan (Dec 6, 2009)

chip's-tree said:


> I said I was trained ( as in general techniques and safety) by a line worker. as for the proper part--I have spent most of my life studying trees so I'm not just a bag of air--like some. plus I have the head of Biology at a local university for a backup. trees are a renewable resource and in great quantity here, that the customer owns, so if they say cut it, I cut it. I was a logger for the first part of my working life so I have a great tendency to just cut it down  I have never spiked a trim job in my life....ISA or any other certs are just a title that does not guarantee the job is done right....



Yeah, don't take no #### from nobody.


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## clearance (Dec 6, 2009)

Good to hear from you Tom.

Now Jrietkerk and Jeff, I think you can understand that why I never posted on Toms site to ask him was I figured he wouldn't let me on it. 

Many topics here turn into silliness here, been part of it myself, but there are lots of decent tree guys here as well. I was quite bitter and resentfull of what I felt to be disrespect for the utility side of treework. 

But, I decided to move on, and be more level headed. Which is why the offer to bury the hatchet. Take care and be work safe everyone/Jim


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## treemandan (Dec 6, 2009)

TreeCo said:


>



Kiss your ass? Well , I guess I am gonna need a longer chisel then


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## Tom Dunlap (Dec 7, 2009)

Clearance...

'Let' you post??? Where did you get the idea that anyone needs permission to post there? From the day over ten years ago when Mark called to ask me to partner up we discussed the openness that we wanted. Free exchange of ideas and support of the industry and profession. No one has EVER been denied access or the chance to post. There are two individuals that have been banned because of their disruptive, disgusting, childish and unprofessional attitudes. Everyone gets two guesses who they are 

Everyone is welcome...if the invite is too cryptic just send me a PM or email. The exchange of information is good for everyone. The world is a better place because of information sharing.

Tom


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## John Paul Sanborn (Dec 7, 2009)

treemandan said:


>



Cute kid buddy, bet that smile warms you up when coming home after a crappy day!


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## treevet (Dec 7, 2009)

There is no reason not to read and post on all the sites. Sure they ALL regress at times and to a point that is part of the fun. Don't you post on the site run by one of the 2 (you get 2 guesses) you banned?

I left AS for a full year and came back to find a much better site. Not so much of the pack mentality like, again 2 guesses, 1 of the sites, and much more open (less gestapo mgt.) with great arborists. AS is a great place to be. 

If you make a comeback....how about you come back as George Hayduke :kilt:

opcorn:

Re....post #24


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## tntree (Dec 10, 2009)

Tom Dunlap said:


> To say that all ISA-CAs have no clue about tree work and line clearance specifically is rubbish. To say that line clearance tree climbers don't know their job is just as much rubbish.



Well said Tom, and heck Tom even lets me post on his site (where the hells the wink Icon)


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## John Paul Sanborn (Dec 10, 2009)

tntree said:


> Well said Tom, and heck Tom even lets me post on his site (where the hells the wink Icon)



Just type a ; next to a ) and you get


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## treemandan (Dec 10, 2009)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> Just type a ; next to a ) and you get



;a


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 10, 2009)




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## Tree Machine (Dec 11, 2009)

> If you make a comeback....how about you come back as George Hayduke



Hi George. a;


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## treevet (Dec 11, 2009)

Maybe Ekka will come back as well and they can bury the hatchet (or pitchfork) and hopefully not in each other.


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## Tree Machine (Dec 11, 2009)

Ekka's team has a great mastery of the whole Google thing. When George Hayduke was called out 'somehow' after that if you google "Tom Dunlap Arborist" you would get a top position of George's callout thread. Tom's been part of thousands of threads, so I can't attribute this to coincidence.

Now, mudslinging is one thing. Interfering with a guy's career in a negative way is really just pushing it too far. Tom's clientele shouldn't have to be part of some past spat. 


I would like Ekka to un-do that. The thread is in the past, but the unnecessary negative effect carries on. I doubt Tom suffers any from it, but any point from it has already been made. Be done with it.


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## treevet (Dec 11, 2009)

I think the response MIGHT (can't speak for Ekka) be that Tom started it all for no good reason and HE dirtied up Ekka's forum with deception and abuse.

Might be a good place and time for reconciliation.....


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## John Paul Sanborn (Dec 11, 2009)

Tom Dunlap Arborist the Heyduke is third from top still.


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## jomoco (Dec 11, 2009)

I've bumped heads with Tom, repeatedly, over the issue of whole tree chipper fatalities on the rise. His position on the matter is the only serious beef I have with him as a climbing arborist.

Both he and that Ball fellow seem to think the chipper manufacturers are doing their best to address this issue through training programs and detailed instruction courses, warning stickers, anything but actually engineering a practical means of reducing fatalities/injuries onto the chipper itself. And further that even mandating a two man operating rule for larger WTC's is unnecessary and onerous for our industry, despite OSHA and NIOSH FACE officials recommendations to do so.

The reality is that Tom's position matching Ball's position on this life and death issue also matches the ISA, TCIA, Morbark, Vermeer, Bandit etc.

To me as a 36 year veteran, very familiar with WTC's since their introduction in the late 80's early 90's, I find myself unable to support either Tom's or TCIA's barbaric position on this important issue. The only result will be more dead treeworkers, killed in a horrible way, that can easily be prevented through either better engineering or mandated two man operation rules being mandated as an industry standard.

This grim issue is why I have steered my own children away from working in this industry, and do not recommend it to anyone as a good career choice any longer.

It's a huge blackeyed embarrassment that Morbark seems to write our industry's rules, regulations and standards, effectively turning a blind eye to crue and unusual death by dismemberment in the 21st century.

jomoco


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## treevet (Dec 11, 2009)

jomoco said:


> I've bumped heads with Tom, repeatedly, over the issue of whole tree chipper fatalities on the rise. His position on the matter is the only serious beef I have with him as a climbing arborist.
> 
> Both he and that Ball fellow seem to think the chipper manufacturers are doing their best to address this issue through training programs and detailed instruction courses, warning stickers, anything but actually engineering a practical means of reducing fatalities/injuries onto the chipper itself. And further that even mandating a two man operating rule for larger WTC's is unnecessary and onerous for our industry, despite OSHA and NIOSH FACE officials recommendations to do so.
> 
> ...



My God you are a long winded self important gas bag.

Let's look at what you do not believe in....

International Society of Arboriculture
Tree Care Industry
Certified Arborists
Accumulating/reading a lot of books
Alex Shigo
Lag bolts 
God 
And now CHIPPERS????

We should all go immediately to a stand by mode and wait for your instructions as what to do next.


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## tree MDS (Dec 11, 2009)

We gotta get you two some boxing gloves. 

Now that would be entertaining! opcorn:


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## jomoco (Dec 11, 2009)

Yeah TV, I'm against doing nothing about the growing number of treeworkers dying in these gruesome WTC fatalities.

If it was your son feeding a WTC?

jomoco


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## John Paul Sanborn (Dec 11, 2009)

Jon is upset because he feels he has a rather simple fix to the problem, and is given the cold shoulder by all the above parties. I've not heard the industries reasoning for not liking his proximity switch.

IMO chipper death is a result of poor training and a lack of common sense. Case in point is the one in Kenosha, WI where the supposed company owner and seasoned veteran was standing on the infeed tray, pushing logs in with his foot, on a chipper were the roller control hydraulics was disabled by himself. Kinda like cleaning a gun without doing a breach inspection; plain stupid.


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## jomoco (Dec 11, 2009)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> Jon is upset because he feels he has a rather simple fix to the problem, and is given the cold shoulder by all the above parties. I've not heard the industries reasoning for not liking his proximity switch.
> 
> IMO chipper death is a result of poor training and a lack of common sense. Case in point is the one in Kenosha, WI where the supposed company owner and seasoned veteran was standing on the infeed tray, pushing logs in with his foot, on a chipper were the roller control hydraulics was disabled by himself. Kinda like cleaning a gun without doing a breach inspection; plain stupid.



You don't quite get the full grasp of what's actually happening here JPS. It's OSHA and NIOSH FACE officials recommending a two man minimum mandate to reduce the growing fatality rate, and Morbark and TCIA saying screw that, if yu slip up feedin that chipper alone, then later days dude.

These so called safety officials can't establish a two man minimum standard to reduce these WTC deaths, much less try and reduce them through smarter engineering whatsoever.

jomoco


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## treevet (Dec 11, 2009)

jomoco said:


> You don't quite get the full grasp of what's actually happening here JPS. It's OSHA and NIOSH FACE officials recommending a two man minimum mandate to reduce the growing fatality rate, and Morbark and TCIA saying screw that, if yu slip up feedin that chipper alone, then later days dude.
> 
> These so called safety officials can't establish a two man minimum standard to reduce these WTC deaths, much less try and reduce them through smarter engineering whatsoever.
> 
> jomoco



These guys dieing are the same guys falling outta trees, getting fried on electric lines, getting hit by falling limbs, falling off ladders painting, running across busy intersection, racing motorcycles without helmets on.

And by the way Jomoco, my son chips brush all summer home from college often with a bc2000 and I have not a worry as he was well taught, then closely monitored and then became fine "on his own". If he stood on an infeed chute pushing logs with his foot... he would wish the limb dragged him in instead of me getting ahold of him.


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## treeseer (Dec 12, 2009)

Nice derail Jon.  My kid feeds a chipper once in a blue moon, and can work in the industry long-term with a lot more to do besides feed a chipper.
Second person solves little--sometimes stupidity is compounded.

and vet--Hayduke dirtied up Ekka's mudpit with deception? Whaaaa? The dictator there won't print research that debunks what he says--what's clean about that?


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## Tree Machine (Dec 12, 2009)

I exchanged frequently with Hayduke. He was a strong contributor, kept challenging my points relentlessly, digging deep for more. Hayduke was professional and sorta hard-edged polite. He just worked under a different name than his own, just like I do, and just like Treevet and Treeseer and TreeMDS and TreeCo do. 

Working under a surname was Tom's crime, no one will find any instance of Tom being malicious in any way. He never went to that level, not in the threads I was part of, which were many in the George Hayduke era. I know little of their former dramas, only what went on at Ekka's site.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Dec 12, 2009)

Tree Machine said:


> Working under a surname was Tom's crime,



Dunlap is his surname, Heyduke was his pseudonym.


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## Tree Machine (Dec 12, 2009)

If there's anyone whose going to point out the pnumonically correct manner in stating a statement, it will be you, JPS.







> Heyduke was his pseudonym.


Don't you mean pseudo-_name_

 
Nyuk nyuk


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## John Paul Sanborn (Dec 12, 2009)

For me to go after spelling would be a pots & kettles squabble. I stick to usage, where I'm rarely wrong


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## treevet (Dec 12, 2009)

treeseer said:


> Nice derail Jon.  My kid feeds a chipper once in a blue moon, and can work in the industry long-term with a lot more to do besides feed a chipper.
> Second person solves little--sometimes stupidity is compounded.
> 
> and vet--Hayduke dirtied up Ekka's mudpit with deception? Whaaaa? The dictator there won't print research that debunks what he says--what's clean about that?



I made Ekka aware of this thread, whether he chooses to get involved is outta my control.


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## treevet (Dec 12, 2009)

Tree Machine said:


> Nyuk nyuk



Three Stooges reference? Love it!


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## Tree Machine (Dec 12, 2009)

Woop, woop woop wooop


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## treevet (Dec 12, 2009)




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## Tom Dunlap (Dec 12, 2009)

jrietkerk said:


> Go engage him there - its not worth it on AS, as so many reduce discussion topics to argument...



My thoughts exactly...


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## treevet (Dec 13, 2009)

I think they have been "engaged" on this thread and .....nobody died or anything.

Plenty of fighting over on ******** and plenty of good content as well. 

Everybody wants the place they are at to be the place to be.


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