# New Oregon Narrow Kerf Chain and SpeedCut Guide Bars



## Philbert (Sep 11, 2015)

For many years, Oregon has packaged certain loops of chain intended for 'consumer' use, and sold at retail outlets, with a letter-number combination to simplify selection. For example,_ 3/8 pitch, low profile, .050 gauge, reduced kickback chain (type 91_) was designated as '*S*', and a loop with 56 drive links is called '*S56*' - much easier to remember .

More info at: http://www.oregonproducts.com/homeowner/products/chain/consumer_sawchain_loops.htm

Today at Lowe's I saw new labeling, in a distinctive, black, Oregon package:






This is .325 pitch, .050 gauge, narrow kerf (type 95) chain, labeled as '_Pro Series_' '*M*' series chain (e.g. '*M66*' above). This is confusing, because .325 pitch, .050 gauge, narrow kerf (type 95) chain is also sold as '*G*' series chain - I know this because one of my saws runs '*G66'* chains (also known as Husqvarna H30 chain with 66 drive links, when SawTroll jumps in!).

(_The package, below, is G78 for a longer bar. Older packages do not have the 'Micro-Lite', narrow kerf symbol on the front, but it is clearly type 95 chain)_





There was also a '*E*' series chain there, but I did not look too closely at that one.

I called Oregon, and it appears to be very new. The technical rep answering the phone had to put me on hold for a few seconds. She stated that this is something new they are trying with 'professional' chains, and that it is currently limited to Lowe's as a test market.

She stated that the 'G' and 'M' series are both type 95 Oregon chains, but that the 'M' chains are not rated as reduced-kickback chains (even though the chain in this package did have bumper drive links).

If you look closely at the drive links in the photo above, you will see some interesting, embossed patterns. Not sure if these are to retain bar oil, or are just decorative.

Do others find these new markings helpful or confusing?

Philbert


----------



## Deleted member 83629 (Sep 16, 2015)

I noticed that also in lowes seems like another way to make chain more confusing than it should be, Getting rid of the vanguard chain would have been a better move i think on their part.


----------



## KenJax Tree (Sep 16, 2015)

I've never bought or even paid much attention to chain in box stores but it looks a little confusing.


----------



## sunfish (Sep 16, 2015)

I order Oregon chain loops and they come in paper boxes. Never heard of E, G or M series?


----------



## svk (Sep 16, 2015)

I think this is helpful for Joe homeowner who doesn't know how many links, gauge, or pitch. But if he can remember a letter and number sequence it simplifies things.

Have you ever watched a homeowner who didn't bring the old chain along try to buy chain from a store employee who doesn't know saws? It can be comical. On an OT note, one time a hardware store employee told me that Oregon 72 and 73 chains are the same but the 73 chain is better because it is a newer model.....facepalm lol


----------



## sunfish (Sep 16, 2015)

I look at chain at the box stores occasionally and have never seen it cheaper than I can order it. It actually is much more expensive. Must be the plastic packages?


----------



## svk (Sep 16, 2015)

sunfish said:


> I look at chain at the box stores occasionally and have never seen it cheaper than I can order it. It actually is much more expensive. Must be the plastic packages?


It's tough to beat Amazon or Frawleys. I try to keep enough loops on hand then pick up the deals as they come along.

I did score a 2 pack of low profile chain for my little saw on clearance at Walmart the other day for a whopping total of $9.


----------



## USMC615 (Sep 16, 2015)

svk said:


> I think this is helpful for Joe homeowner who doesn't know how many links, gauge, or pitch. But if he can remember a letter and number sequence it simplifies things.
> 
> Have you ever watched a homeowner who didn't bring the old chain along try to buy chain from a store employee who doesn't know saws? It can be comical. On an OT note, one time a hardware store employee told me that Oregon 72 and 73 chains are the same but the 73 chain is better because it is a newer model.....facepalm lol


Damn, lol...I guess 74 will supersede the previous two chains shortly...


----------



## Philbert (Sep 16, 2015)

KenJax Tree said:


> I've never bought or even paid much attention to chain in box stores but it looks a little confusing.


It's the same chain. Just packaged and labeled differently for the "average" consumer. Usually a store stocks basic chain for the saws they sell. No specialty or exotic stuff. 



sunfish said:


> I order Oregon chain loops and they come in paper boxes. Never heard of E, G or M series?


The paper boxes are provided by Oregon when they sell full rolls of chain. The people that you buy chain from make up loops, and sell them to you. The chains in plastic packaging are loops made up by Oregon for retail sales.

'E' and 'M' are these new labels that I find confusing. 'G' is .325, narrow kerf / 'Micro-Lite' chain, also known as type 95 or Husqvarna H30 chain. Might only be stocked at stores that sell those saws that use it.



sunfish said:


> I look at chain at the box stores occasionally and have never seen it cheaper than I can order it.



Depends. Often quite expensive in these packs at some hardware stores and home centers. Pretty cheap at the one where 'y_ou save BIG money_', especially when on sale. 

I have seen Oregon chain go for twice as much in one store than in another. Sometimes so cheap that it is worth buying a longer loop, and spinning it down to fit. if they don't have your size.

Philbert


----------



## Deleted member 83629 (Sep 16, 2015)

what is the difference between 72 and 73 oregon chain sorry i just don't know.


----------



## KenJax Tree (Sep 16, 2015)

.050 is 72 and .058 is 73


----------



## Deleted member 83629 (Sep 16, 2015)

KenJax Tree said:


> .050 is 72 and .058 is 73


oh that odd .058 chain thanks Chris.


----------



## USMC615 (Sep 16, 2015)

KenJax Tree said:


> .050 is 72 and .058 is 73


Yep, yep. Made the mistake and bought a loop of '73' (.058) one time and had to take it back to HD and swap.


----------



## Deleted member 83629 (Sep 16, 2015)

i bought chain at walmart for my little echo got a 2 pack for 16$ and it was carlton. sometimes i can get good deals like that.


----------



## svk (Sep 16, 2015)

jakewells said:


> i bought chain at walmart for my little echo got a 2 pack for 16$ and it was carlton. sometimes i can get good deals like that.


Mine was generic packaging but was actually Oregon...works for me!


----------



## Philbert (Sep 16, 2015)

I should note, while we are on the subject, that Oregon has a bit of leeway when packaging / labeling chains this way (_stop reading now unless you are a chain geek!_).

For example. 'S56' is 56 drive links of 3/8, low profile, .o5o gauge chain - 'type 91'. I think that it is always reduced-kickback chain in these packages (?). But if you look at enough packages, you will see:
- some have tie strap bumpers (91VG) and some have drive link bumpers (91P);
- some have embossed ('LubriLink') tie straps, some have conventional tie straps, and some have '4-way tie straps';
- some have 'LubriWell' drive links, designed to help carry bar oil, and some have plain, flat drive links;
- some chain is 'Made in USA', some is 'Made in Canada', some is 'Made in Brazil', some is 'Made in China from components made in USA or Brazil', some is now probably 'Made in China'.

Many consumers don't care about these small differences. People on this site might (Google each if interested). Every 'S56' chain will fit the same saws, but if you bought several at different times, or at different stores, you might notice the difference.

Philbert


http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/help-w-oregon-chain-codes-and-filing-specs.232089/


----------



## svk (Sep 16, 2015)

Philbert said:


> I should note, while we are on the subject, that Oregon has a bit of leeway when packaging / labeling chains this way (_stop reading now unless you are a chain geek!_).
> 
> For example. 'S56' is 56 drive links of 3/8, low profile, .o5o gauge chain - 'type 91'. I think that it is always reduced-kickback chain in these packages (?). But if you look at enough packages, you will see:
> - some have tie strap bumpers (91VG) and some have drive link bumpers (91P);
> ...


As you noted, 99% of folks buying chain from a big box neither know nor care about these. I am assuming they must just throw in whatever they have when a bulk order comes in?


----------



## Deleted member 83629 (Sep 16, 2015)

But i only use stihl brand chain anymore since i got ahold of some oregon that would lose a cutter inside green hackberry 
but i know oregon has good chain if you avoid the made in china crap.


----------



## OldJack (Sep 16, 2015)

It's bad enough now with dual part numbers and an out of date website, but at least the yellow label box has both part numbers printed in the upper left corner. The black label box only lists the new number. It's time someone at Oregon sat the marketing gurus down and had a serious talk with them.


----------



## Deleted member 83629 (Sep 16, 2015)

agree maybe oregon should follow the saw manufactures and use there numbers as a cross reference then it wouldn't be near as awful searching for chain.
sorry for the blurry picture. But this is much easier to me and not near as confusing.


----------



## SawTroll (Sep 16, 2015)

Hopefully they terminate this additional way of designating chain loops as soon as possible, as all it does it to add to the confusion.


----------



## OldJack (Sep 16, 2015)

I've got to give Philbert a like for reporting this mess. Otherwise I'd be scratching my head the next time I go chain shopping.


----------



## Philbert (Sep 16, 2015)

OldJack said:


> It's time someone at Oregon sat the marketing gurus down and had a serious talk with them_._


_
'Some people' _have already sent them unsolicited feedback, via the 'Contact Us' link on their web page . . .

Philbert


----------



## Philbert (Sep 22, 2015)

And '_someone_' from Oregon got back with me! 

(EDITED - after posting this I was able to speak directly to this person and they gave me the 'lowdown', so I wanted this info to be accurate)

_"The M series chain is a new generation of the G series. We plan to discontinue the G series chain in the coming year as we make the M series available to all retailers. I understand there is not thorough communication explaining this yet. We are developing additional information pieces to clarify the changes."
_
Apparently, this new 'M' chain has been redesigned with new angles, to increase cutting performance, and they wanted to clearly distinguish it in the retail channels. I don't know what the full designation will be for this chain. Oregon has discontinued/replaced/upgraded chains in the past. I have been pretty happy with the existing 'G'/type 95P chain, so it will be interesting to try.

The 'E' series chain is a full sized 3/8 pitch, .050 gauge (type 72) chain.

_"The new M series chain is not certified green label, ANSI low-kickback. Oregon has several saw chains that include the bumper drive link components to help reduce kickback, but do not meet the requirements to certify green label."
_
ANSI compliance requires very specific performance testing. Apparently, some chains with features like bumper drive links reduce the severity or likelihood of kickback, but not enough to meet the standard. There may also be benefits of a smoother cut on smaller wood. 

Oregon traditionally offered reduced-kickback chain in consumer packaging, but thinks that some professional users also like to buy chain at home centers, so this is sort of an experiment for them

Philbert


----------



## Philbert (Sep 23, 2015)

jakewells said:


> Getting rid of the vanguard chain would have been a better move i think on their part.



The 'E' chain may provide an alternative to the Vanguard chain, currently in the 'D' packages for 3/8, .050 chain users at home centers, hardware stores, etc.

Philbert


----------



## Philbert (Oct 26, 2015)

The new 'M' chain is briefly described in this new product showcase video:



They also mention a new, lighter weight, NK bar.

Philbert


----------



## Philbert (Nov 10, 2015)

From an Oregon FaceBook post:

_"The SpeedCut™ System is the same kerf as the Micro-Lite™ bars and 95VPX chain so they are compatible, however several design improvements have been made to both the chain and bar. The 95TXL chain is faster, sharper, and easier through a reengineered cutter and new grind technology. The bars are stronger, lighter, and longer lasting achieved from a new adhesive bond, aluminum core, redesigned nose, and harder bar rails."_

'_Faster_', '_sharper_', and _'easier_' cutting chains, along with '_stronger_', '_lighter_', '_longer lasting_' bars with '_harder_' rails are hard adjectives to argue with! I can sort of assume what they did with the bar, using an adhesive lamination and aluminum core. Would really like to understand the stuff about the '_reengineered cutter and grind technology_': wonder if this means different cutter geometry or angles that can be applied to existing chains, or something unique manufactured into the shape of these cutters. Inquiring minds want to know!

Philbert


----------



## wde_1978 (Nov 10, 2015)

I didn't know the meaning of any of the Oregon chain designations! 

I know which chains my saws need by specs and buy accordingly, or I order by Dolmar article number and receive a Dolmar branded Oregon chain.

Buying by specs is becoming my preferred way as it opens doors and enables access to other then OEM brands (even though they are all pretty much Blount now).

I don't care for the numbering system, reading through this thread made my head hurt - rather give me chain specs!


----------



## Philbert (Nov 10, 2015)

wde_1978 said:


> I know which chains my saws need by specs . . .


That's a good way to go if you understand 'pitch', 'gauge', 'drive links', 'cutter type' and 'sequence'. Some people think of chains like the tires on their cars - they just want something that fits.

Oregon Consumer Chain Labeling

S = series 91, 3/8 low profile pitch, .050 gauge chain
R = series 90, 3/8 low profile pitch, narrow kerf, .043 gauge chain
H = series 20 BPX, .325 pitch, .050 gauge chain
J = series 21 BPX, .325 pitch, .058 gauge chain
L = series 22 BPX, .325 pitch, .063 gauge chain
G = series 95V, .325 pitch, narrow kerf, .050 gauge chain
D = series 72V 'Vanguard', 3/8 pitch, .050 gauge chain

Oregon Chain Product Coding




Of course, STIHL, Husqvarna, Carlton, etc., each have their own systems - found on their respective web pages. The codes can be helpful in understanding the feature differences between chains that appear to be similar.

Philbert


----------



## wde_1978 (Nov 10, 2015)

Your list ends with D/72 series , what would 3/8" pitch .058" gauge be then?
D/73 ?
Never mind, I'll stick with: 3/8" ; .058" ; 72DL & 115DL ; chisel tooth full comp ...

I am thinking of switching to chisel chain on my Sachs-Dolmar 105 & 108, if available.
They now feature 3/8" LowProfile round tooth safety chain.
I will definitely try and source a PowerSharp starter kit for them!
Those little buggers are awesome saws and I would like to make them more attractive for everyday usage now that I got power-spoiled by my PS-6400 & PS-7900. 

Great thread!


----------



## Philbert (Nov 10, 2015)

wde_1978 said:


> Your list ends with D/72 series , what would 3/8" pitch .058" gauge be then?



The retail letter-number designations (e.g. 'S56') are only used for most common, consumer chains, likely to be found in home centers, hardware stores, and similar outlets. They cover only a fraction of the chains that Oregon makes and sells, and usually are focused on the types of saws sold in those places.

The list, posted above, is from their website. Other chain sizes, types, etc., are usually sourced through a saw dealer, catalog, etc.



wde_1978 said:


> I will definitely try and source a PowerSharp starter kit for them!



I really like the PowerSharp chain - but that is a different thread!

Philbert


----------



## OldJack (Nov 10, 2015)

I'm posting a blow-up of the new 95TXL chain so the experts can get a better look at it.


----------



## SawTroll (Nov 14, 2015)

Philbert said:


> From an Oregon FaceBook post:
> 
> _"The SpeedCut™ System is the same kerf as the Micro-Lite™ bars and 95VPX chain so they are compatible, however several design improvements have been made to both the chain and bar. The 95TXL chain is faster, sharper, and easier through a reengineered cutter and new grind technology. The bars are stronger, lighter, and longer lasting achieved from a new adhesive bond, aluminum core, redesigned nose, and harder bar rails."_
> 
> ...




That bar remind me of the Husky TechLite....

It's a pity they didn't make the new chain a chisel, when they were at it!


----------



## Philbert (Nov 14, 2015)

SawTroll said:


> That bar remind me of the Husky TechLite....


In a good way, right?

Philbert


----------



## Philbert (Dec 2, 2015)

*Update on New SpeedCut Guide Bar*

Illustration from the 2016 Oregon Forestry Catalog
http://content.yudu.com/web/y5b2/0A...h/resources/index.htm?referrerUrl=#noRedirect



*Note the addition of a 'debris shield' to the sides of the sprocket bearings, and the lack of an oil hole!* Three versions offered:




Philbert


----------



## svk (Dec 2, 2015)

Philbert said:


> *Update on New SpeedCut Guide Bar*
> 
> Illustration from the 2016 Oregon Forestry Catalog
> http://content.yudu.com/web/y5b2/0A...h/resources/index.htm?referrerUrl=#noRedirect
> ...


Interesting. Wondering what the pros think about a non replaceable tip?


----------



## Philbert (Dec 2, 2015)

svk said:


> Wondering what the pros think about a non replaceable tip?


Oregon offers a range of bars (Double Guard, Pro-Am, Pro-lite) at different price points, with 'non-replaceable' nose sprockets. Actually, most of these sprockets are 'replaceable', but usually not done on the least expensive bars.

http://www.oregonproducts.com/pro/products/bars/oregon_bars_main.htm

They are promoting these new bars as '_lightweight_' and '_professional_'. I am speculating that they decided to beef up the nose sprocket, with better steel, and the 'debris shield', to save weight over a replaceable sprocket nose (RSN).

Whether or not a replacement sprocket will be available for these bars remains to be seen (as does the pricing).

Note that they are offering it in a large radius nose version, which is not found on 'consumer' grade bars, due to increased risk of kick-back.

Philbert


----------



## Philbert (Dec 4, 2015)

*Additional Information on the New SpeedCut Bars*

Pretty interesting that they eliminated the nose sprocket lubrication hole on these bars - that has been the focus of _lots_ of threads.

Kind of exciting to have lightweight bars that fit some smaller saws: guys have been asking for these. Will have to see what sizes are available, price points, and how they hold up.

Available Spring - Summer, 2016?

(Quoted from an Oregon Rep - edited for length.)

_"These bars use completely new sprocket nose assemblies which are designed to outlast the bar rails. Our lab testing and field testing . . . have confirmed this._

_. . . the nose shield is packed with grease at assembly and its purpose is twofold: 1) it keeps the grease in the nose while still allowing the bar and chain oil to enter the nose assembly for continual lubrication and 2) it prevents debris from entering the nose and causing wear on the nose components. So there will no longer be a need to add grease to the nose as long as you are using bar and chain oil._

_. . . the new design(s) also feature our LubriTec system which has an angled oil hole at the tail that increases the velocity of the oil that is delivered to the chain and bar for better lubrication._

_. . . these bars will eventually replace the Pro-Lite family._

_- '*SpeedCut*' is a narrow kerf (micro-lite) bar . . . for use . . . on saws up to 55 cc_

_- '*ControlCut*' are standard kerf bars (.050, .058 and .063 gauge) with small nose radius which helps prevent kickback . . ._

_- '*VersaCut*' are standard kerf bars (.050, .058 and .063 gauge) with large nose radius which are suitable for use in a variety of applications."_

Philbert

PS *Renamed the thread due to the additional information on these new bars*


----------



## Modifiedmark (Dec 5, 2015)

Philbert, I am wondering one thing, why in the world are they not making the present Microlite bar in 20" and now I see the new version Speedcut is not offered in 20" either.

My brother came by last weekend to show me his new Echo CS-490 that came with a standard Echo I presume Prolite bar and 20LPX chain on it. He knew the saw was going to be at its limits with a 20" bar but thought he needed a 20".

I told him as much and gave him a used 16" Husky branded Microlite bar and a couple 95VP chains for it and told him to use these when he didn't need the 20" reach. He liked the idea of the narrow kerf bar as we know it pulls easier and is better suited to a 50cc saw and likes the semi chisel cutter of the 95VP and is very well suited for the type of sometimes less then clean firewood he cuts.

He liked it so well he tried to get the same setup in 20" from the dealer he bought the saw from and since he had not used the original bar and chain they said he could just swap it. That's when they found out they couldn't get that setup in a 20", only up to 18". I actually new that but forgot about it only being available in 16" and 18".

I just looked at the new catalog you posted and see the 20" setup is not listed in the new Speedcut and matching chain for it. That is strange as this is the exact saw and conditions that the narrow kerf bar was intended for and would be perfect for him.

Also new to me was the K216 bar mount on the new Echo. Not sure what's going on with it. Its basically a K041 mount with a oil hole like the K095 but the oil hole is lower then the K095. For what its worth the old standby Ko41 mount will still work perfectly in place of the new K216 mount..


----------



## Philbert (Dec 5, 2015)

Modifiedmark said:


> . . . why in the world are they not making the present Microlite bar in 20" and now I see the new version Speedcut is not offered in 20" either.


I can't explain marketing. I have 16 and 20 inch Husqvarna OEM, narrow kerf bars. And I am pretty sure that I have Oregon replacements as well _(EDIT: I only have a 16" spare Oregon bar)_. But they are all several years old - might not be current inventory.

In the 2016 Oregon catalog I see a 20" SpeedCut in a K095 mount (200TXLBK095).

Bailey's also lists a 20" Woodland Pro NK bar _("Replaces Oregon Part Number 200MLBK095")._ They don't list the Echo CS-490 in their bar selector.

Philbert


----------



## Terry Syd (Dec 5, 2015)

Assuming the picture is actually the new NK chain, it looks like they may have tightened up the bend in the cutter. In other words, they have made the cutter more like the Carlton NK chain. The old VP95 chain has a bend that is identical to standard .325.

If the bend is tighter (smaller radius) then is probably going to be great chain. I like the way the Carlton NK chain can cut, but the chrome just isn't up to handling the Ozzie hardwood like the Oregon VP95. 

I wonder how many blokes might try one of those new 20" bar and chains on a Dolmar 6100. I'd bet that would be a fast and light combination for that saw. As far as the up to 55cc recommendations, the chain can handle much more power than 55cc, it has the same drive links as the standard .325. In fact, some of the racers in Oz use the NK chassis for racing on 77cc piped saws. They remove the NK cutters and put standard .325 chisel cutters on the chain - lightweight chain without the 'dog boning' and 'rivet thinning'.


----------



## Franny K (Dec 5, 2015)

I have four bars in this .325 NK. Two made in Norway Husky bars 56 and 64 drive links and one 72 drive link one I believe is Oregon with pro on it in some manner. I do not recall if these come in two grades. I kind of think they did and if so making comparisons need state which one they are stronger than. Of those 3 they all have 10 tooth noses and appear to me to be made of the same component sheet stock for 3/8 lp. I got a universal mount one from Baileys in a bar chain combination and that claimed to have a 10 tooth nose but I keep getting 11 when I count. The bar thickness and height are probably why offering "20" inch bars is beyond the safety comfort zone for Oregon.

Taking the chain apart and measuring the diameter that goes into the tie straps and the diameter of the larger surface that pivots in the drive link to me are at the top of the list for size of saw is recommended. Take this chain apart and measure, then do Oregon 91 and 20 series and Stihl Picco 63 class and check. If I recall one of those measurements wasn't much more than the Stihl picco. The tie strap can be measured in various ways as well. The picco has less and lighter drive links if you really are super weight conscious and the cutters are sharpened as far as you do is the cause to toss the chain to scrap.

How much weight can be trimmed off a 10 tooth nose 0.325x0.050 bar's inner laminate and how does that market shrink as price is adjusted? I note the new oil distributing features. Didn't they also spec this chain/bar/cutting system as not suitable for storm clean up?


----------



## Modifiedmark (Dec 5, 2015)

Philbert said:


> I can't explain marketing. I have 16 and 20 inch Husqvarna OEM, narrow kerf bars. And I am pretty sure that I have Oregon replacements as well. But they are all several years old - might not be current inventory.
> 
> In the 2016 Oregon catalog I see a 20" SpeedCut in a K095 mount (200TXLBK095).
> 
> ...




Yeah I know your not in charge of marketing, I was on a bit of a rant at the time and was hoping you knew something that I didn't.

If they are making the speedcut bar in 20" for the small Husky mount, that is the first time that I have seen Oregon list a 20" .325 NK bar period.

I have the big Oregon books here going back quite a few years and have not seen a 20" NK listed even under the Husky apps. They go from like 13" to 18".

I have to ask, you say you have a OEM 20" NK bar? What saw did it come on? And no insult intended but your positive it is a NK bar? I have measured the bar width before on them and there is not much difference really..

I know OEM is OEM but most the time Oregon or Windsor always had a bar to fit it. That said, I seen very little support over the years in listings for example the Husky 41 that came with .325 NK bars and chains, I still never seen the bar mount that come on that saw listed either. It looked like the new 216 Echo mount but was just a little bit different and of course like the Echo 216 it could be replaced with a K041 mount perfectly.

Like I said, I sure don't understand why Oregon never listed and apparently still don't (except the small Husky mount you mentioned) list a 20" NK bar.

I guess I will check out the Woodland pro 20 bar, if they come in a A041 mount, that will work fine on the new Echo and it could be used with the 95VP chain or the new chain Oregon is listing. This would be the ticket for my brothers saw.


----------



## Modifiedmark (Dec 5, 2015)

Alright I dug around that new Oregon catalog through the bar and chain application charts.

It appears the new TXL bar is only available in the small Husky K095 mount. What in the world is going on with that? No listings for anything else.

They only list the 20" version on certain saws, one being the Husky top handle saws... Go figure that.

Phil if your looking for a job, go apply with Oregon Forestry, and I'll be a reference for you. It's obvious they need someone with a clue as to what's going on.

The other thing is Baileys selector guide isn't any better. It list the NK 20" bar for the Echo ok, but it is a universal type mount and says it replaces the K095 mount. The listings under fitment don't list basically anything that isn't K095 even though it appears it will fit K041 applications as well.

Looking up bars for say a Poulan Pro 295 they list only high priced Cannon bars.. 

Looks like they need to hire someone with a clue as well.


----------



## Philbert (Dec 5, 2015)

Modifiedmark said:


> I have to ask, you say you have a OEM 20" NK bar? What saw did it come on? And no insult intended but your positive it is a NK bar?


No offense taken. There are lots of variations, and it's easy to screw up.

The OEM bar came on my Husqvarna 353. I remember thinking that it was longer than I wanted, but it was the only way that that saw was offered from that seller. So I bought a 16" bar as well. 

The bar is stamped:
SN A 20/50 050/1 3 @
325 78DL 106896 CY
MADE IN CANADA

(where the '@' is the 'Micro-Lite symbol) 





Modifiedmark said:


> Phil if your looking for a job, go apply with Oregon Forestry, and I'll be a reference for you.


Sounds like a deal!

Philbert


----------



## Modifiedmark (Dec 5, 2015)

Yep, that is the same symbol that was on the 41 I had in here the other day with its basically one off style bar as well.

Doing some more digging I see that Oregon did list a 20" Microlite bar for your 353 in my 07 Oregon catalog. I don't have a 08 version but it was not listed in the 09 catalog, so they surely didn't carry it for very long.


----------



## Terry Syd (Dec 5, 2015)

My 20" Husky NK bar takes 80 drive links. I got it from Bailey's some years ago.


----------



## Philbert (Dec 5, 2015)

Checked my 'inventory': looks like I have a spare 16" Oregon 'Pro-Lite' NK bar for my saw, but not a 20". Hard to keep track. 

Philbert


----------



## Franny K (Dec 6, 2015)

Modifiedmark said:


> The other thing is Baileys selector guide isn't any better. It list the NK 20" bar for the Echo ok, but it is a universal type mount and says it replaces the K095 mount. The listings under fitment don't list basically anything that isn't K095 even though it appears it will fit K041 applications as well.


I got a universal mount NK bar from Baileys and use it on 3005 Stihl mount I guess that is 074 Oregon. It has two oil input spots and two adjuster spots. All of those are connected to the bar slot hence (memory here) there is a good chance the oil will escape somewhere if the buyer doesn't close off some of them. Even a wad of paper towel seems to work good enough for an outing. Perhaps folks expect too much from universal and that costs them man hours with frustrated customers.


----------



## SawTroll (Dec 6, 2015)

Modifiedmark said:


> .....
> 
> I just looked at the new catalog you posted and see the 20" setup is not listed in the new Speedcut and matching chain for it. That is strange as this is the exact saw and conditions that the narrow kerf bar was intended for and would be perfect for him.
> 
> .....



Husky offers NK (Pixel) bars in 20", but those do of course have the k095 mount.


----------



## SawTroll (Dec 6, 2015)

Franny K said:


> I got a universal mount NK bar from Baileys and use it on 3005 Stihl mount I guess that is 074 Oregon. It has two oil input spots and two adjuster spots. All of those are connected to the bar slot hence (memory here) *there is a good chance the oil will escape somewhere if the buyer doesn't close off some of them*. Even a wad of paper towel seems to work good enough for an outing. Perhaps folks expect too much from universal and that costs them man hours with frustrated customers.



That is very likely, as it has been reported to be an issue with the Cannon C1 mount (combo Stihl 3005/K095/Ko41).


----------



## SawTroll (Dec 6, 2015)

Terry Syd said:


> My 20" Husky NK bar takes 80 drive links. I got it from Bailey's some years ago.



That's what they list here as well.


----------



## Philbert (Dec 6, 2015)

Terry Syd said:


> My 20" Husky NK bar takes 80 drive links. I got it from Bailey's some years ago.





SawTroll said:


> That's what they list here as well.



Mine takes 78 drive links (see model number in Post #45, above). Maybe a different nose radius?

Philbert


----------



## SawTroll (Dec 6, 2015)

Philbert said:


> Mine takes 78 drive links (see model number in Post #45, above). Maybe a different nose radius?
> 
> Philbert



I believe it was about making the bars closer to a true 20" - but I'm not sure.

With a larger nose, bar manufacturers usually compensate by making the bar slightly shorter, to keep the dl count the same.


----------



## Modifiedmark (Dec 6, 2015)

SawTroll said:


> Husky offers NK (Pixel) bars in 20", but those do of course have the k095 mount.



In that part of my quote you posted I was actually referring to the Echo K216 or K041 mount.

I kinda figured after looking today and seeing Oregon quit listing the K095 mount in 20" NK that it would have to be a OEM item.

I did talk to my brother today and he has been using the 16" micro lite bar with the 95vp chain that I gave him and he was telling me how he really liked that combination. He said it really rips and the chain stays sharp a long time compared to the full chisel chain he had been using on his other saw. He just wishes for that setup in 20". He may end up trying that Woodland pro 20" NK bar but I told him to stay away from that Carlton chain.


----------



## Terry Syd (Dec 7, 2015)

Philbert said:


> Mine takes 78 drive links (see model number in Post #45, above). Maybe a different nose radius?



I just checked my 20" bar and it has 10 teeth on the nose sprocket, the same as the smaller bars. The difference is in the thickness (as opposed to width), the bar has more 'belly' than the other 10 teeth bars.

I found the standard NK bars can go into resonance in some wood cutting situations, however this 20" bar, although it is longer, does not have the resonance problem. If a bar does go into resonance (vibrating back and forth) it will open up the kerf, this bar keeps the kerf nice and tight. It has been a great bar, but it definitely needs the grease hole for the sprocket. If I get lazy and fail to grease it often, it will pick up sawdust/chips between the sprocket and bar.

I was concerned about bar wear, but I've been using it on a modded 64cc 029 for a couple of years and it hasn't worn as much as I thought it would. I should be able to get another 3-5 years out of it, but then I'm not a commercial cutter, just a 68 year old firewood hack who likes a nice light saw that gets the job done quickly.

The Carlton/Woodland Pro chain probably will last in softwood, but the stuff I cut gives it a hammering. One other problem with the Carlton chain is the heel of the cutter. The heel comes to a sharper point and creates a greater loading on the bar rail. I noticed increased bar wear when using the Carlton chain. The VP95 chain has a broader heel and spreads the force over a larger area.

This new Oregon chain looks like it may incorporated all the good points of both chains. However, I'll wait to see it in the field. I remember when Oregon came out with the 95VPX chain and claimed it was 15% faster - total BS, it didn't cut any faster.

The same applies to the new bar. Supposedly 20% lighter (than WHAT?). Crikey, my laminated bar is already nice and light and to trim it back another 20% would take some serious work and material by a team at NASA.

If someone gets one of these bar and chains, I'd love to see some pictures and results - it could be a game changer.


----------



## Philbert (Dec 7, 2015)

Terry Syd said:


> It has been a great bar, but it definitely needs the grease hole for the sprocket.


Of course, most STIHL bars have the discs on either side of the nose sprocket, and no grease hole.



Terry Syd said:


> One other problem with the Carlton chain is the heel of the cutter. The heel comes to a sharper point and creates a greater loading on the bar rail. I noticed increased bar wear when using the Carlton chain. The VP95 chain has a broader heel and spreads the force over a larger area.



Newer chains have the clipped cutter heels to reduce vibration ('low-vibe' or 'comfort' chain). Apparently the slap-slap-slapping of the cutters as they tip back adds up when done 600-700 times per second. I have always thought of this as vibration transferred to the user, but you make a good point about them hammering the bar rails too.



Terry Syd said:


> Supposedly 20% lighter (than WHAT?). Crikey, my laminated bar is already nice and light and to trim it back another 20% would take some serious work and material by a team at NASA.



I am assuming 20% lighter than a standard, laminated bar. But they did say that these will be replacing their 'Pro-Lite' series, so it could be compared to those. Normally I think of lightweight primarily for longer bars, where the ounces make more of a difference when leveraged out at 28 inches, plus. But lighter weight might also be an advantage for top handled saws, or allow a longer bar to balance well.

One of their comments related to an '_adhesive bond_'. I know that there are structural adhesives used even in aircraft assembly (per your NASA reference), but I don't think that that would reduce weight over spot welds. It might contribute to a stiffer bar.



Terry Syd said:


> . . . it could be a game changer.


I am looking for an incremental improvement.

Philbert


----------



## Terry Syd (Dec 7, 2015)

Philbert said:


> I am looking for an incremental improvement.



You're probably right, but if all the hype comes true, then we could have a faster cutting NK chain on a stronger bar with HARDER rails. There's a potential for a lot of guys to start using such a combination to speed up their cutting with a nicer/quicker handling saw.


----------



## CR888 (Dec 7, 2015)

Like Terry, l too would love to see pics of their new chain and bars. Very interesting post about how different chains wear bars and drive tangs. l find Oregon 050 tangs get sharp and pointy very quickly. l also notice stihl .063 tangs keep shape longer through the life of the chain. l file the my standard 3\8 drive tangs with a round file making them wide again not pointy. l have some .043 oregon nk semi chisel that really performs well. Small cutters but smooth and fast which is what you need on a polesaw.


----------



## SawTroll (Dec 7, 2015)

Modifiedmark said:


> In that part of my quote you posted I was actually referring to the Echo K216 or K041 mount.
> 
> I kinda figured after looking today and seeing Oregon quit listing the K095 mount in 20" NK that it would have to be a OEM item.
> 
> I did talk to my brother today and he has been using the 16" micro lite bar with the 95vp chain that I gave him and he was telling me how he really liked that combination. He said it really rips and the chain stays sharp a long time compared to the full chisel chain he had been using on his other saw. He just wishes for that setup in 20". He may end up trying that Woodland pro 20" NK bar but I told him to stay away from that Carlton chain.



Yes, that's why I specified that the Husky bars are K095. It should be possible to adapt them, as they are K-tail bars?

I suspect that a 20" bar isn't a good idea on an Echo 490 - but it will of course work.


----------



## SawTroll (Dec 7, 2015)

Terry Syd said:


> ......
> The Carlton/Woodland Pro chain probably will last in softwood, but the stuff I cut gives it a hammering. One other problem with the Carlton chain is the heel of the cutter. The heel comes to a sharper point and creates a greater loading on the bar rail. I noticed increased bar wear when using the Carlton chain. The VP95 chain has a broader heel and spreads the force over a larger area.
> 
> ..... .



That's because Carlton doesn't have a low-vibe chassis, that was invented by Oregon and later adopted by Stihl.

This is quite odd, as Carlton has the same owner as Oregon, and they do sometimes cooperate....


----------



## Franny K (Dec 7, 2015)

I went back and re read a bunch of stuff in this thread.
Replacing the entire pro lite with this technology, they changed naming lately so complicating stuff I suppose this means SL and GL in standard and MP in narrow kerf. The lower grade dual guard, pro am, microlite without the pro (ML) will stay the same at least for now? Does what I read mean they are offering NK bars in more than 10 tooth noses? From the look of the picture in post 35 that 20% could be for a large, 12 I guess tooth nose with 0.063 middle lamine couldn't it? That is for speed cut, versa cut, and control cut. I see nothing about improvement in plunge cutting.


----------



## Philbert (Dec 7, 2015)

CR888 said:


> l have some .043 oregon nk semi chisel that really performs well. Small cutters but smooth and fast which is what you need on a polesaw.



That Oregon Type 90 chain is surprisingly aggressive if sharpened with the 4.5mm / 11/64" file. I have it on their 40V pole saw and it works really well.

Philbert


----------



## Modifiedmark (Dec 7, 2015)

SawTroll said:


> Yes, that's why I specified that the Husky bars are K095. It should be possible to adapt them, as they are K-tail bars?
> 
> I suspect that a 20" bar isn't a good idea on an Echo 490 - but it will of course work.




Yea I would think the old grind the adjuster opening till it breaks through the underside of the bar groove would work to use the K095 mount on the Echo. My point of contention is why the K041 style mount is not listed for the new NK bars? Tons and tons of saws use that mount.

Another thing is what is the point of the new K216 bar mount? Basically a K041 with a oil hole...

If you want to go there, a 20" bar on most 50cc saws is not a great idea. If you are going to use a 20" bar on a 50cc saw, I think the NK setup is a good idea.


----------



## SawTroll (Dec 7, 2015)

Modifiedmark said:


> Yea I would think the old grind the adjuster opening till it breaks through the underside of the bar groove would work to use the K095 mount on the Echo. My point of contention is why the K041 style mount is not listed for the new NK bars? Tons and tons of saws use that mount.
> 
> Another thing is what is the point of the new K216 bar mount? Basically a K041 with a oil hole...
> 
> If you want to go there, a 20" bar on most 50cc saws is not a great idea. If you are going to use a 20" bar on a 50cc saw, I think the NK setup is a good idea.



I don't see the point with the K216 mount either, unless it just is to sell more OEM branded bars, by being different.

What kills my interest in the NK bars mainly is the lack of a good chisel option. If that isn't an issue to the user, I agree that NK is a good idea.


----------



## Modifiedmark (Dec 7, 2015)

SawTroll said:


> I don't see the point with the K216 mount either, unless it just is to sell more OEM branded bars, by being different.
> 
> What kills my interest in the NK bars mainly is the lack of a good chisel option. If that isn't an issue to the user, I agree that NK is a good idea.




I was thinking the same thing on the 216 bar mount, being a way to sell more OEM bars but Oregon sure does have plenty of that mount in there catalog, just not in the NK style.

I know your opinion on needing a full chisel cutter in NK and I agree the choice would be nice but then again it depends what your cutting. I in the past used the 95VP chain on a bunch of firewood cutting and what I was cutting I would not have wanted a full chisel cutter as we were cutting out of brush piles etc so not the cleanest wood.

To be honest, the 95VP on my Husky 350 I was using at the time seemed as fast even in clean wood as the 20Lp so I don't feel at a loss not having a full chisel option in the NK chains.


----------



## Philbert (Dec 7, 2015)

SawTroll said:


> What kills my interest in the NK bars mainly is the lack of a good chisel option. If that isn't an issue to the user, I agree that NK is a good idea.



Niko,

Maybe you are the perfect person to test these new chains, once they become available over your way. 

Philbert


----------



## SawTroll (Dec 7, 2015)

Philbert said:


> Niko,
> 
> Maybe you are the perfect person to test these new chains, once they become available over your way.
> 
> Philbert



I may well try it, when I am back to cutting, as I use NK on the 339xp.


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair (Dec 7, 2015)

If I was going to run 20" on 50cc under saws. stihl PS PS3 3/8LP picco is the ticket or for you semi chisel fans just pick any other chain in 3/8LP. 

echo 4500 45cc 3/8 7T with 20" picco


----------



## svk (Dec 7, 2015)

Modifiedmark said:


> To be honest, the 95VP on my Husky 350 I was using at the time seemed as fast even in clean wood as the 20Lp so I don't feel at a loss not having a full chisel option in the NK chains.


Quick question on this. Does the same sprocket work with standard 3/8 and 3/8 low profile for these saws or is there a different one for low profile?


----------



## Philbert (Dec 7, 2015)

svk said:


> Quick question on this. Does the same sprocket work with standard 3/8 and 3/8 low profile for these saws or is there a different one for low profile?



Info page says that they 'f_it .325”-pitch, standard 3/8”-pitch, and .404”-pitch chains'_. Do not mention 3/8 low profile. Their spur sprockets specifically mention 3/8 low profile.

http://www.oregonproducts.com/pro/products/sprockets/sprockets_powermate_system.htm

http://www.oregonproducts.com/pdf/sprockets/RimSproxFB0601.pdf

Philbert


----------



## SawTroll (Dec 7, 2015)

svk said:


> Quick question on this. Does the same sprocket work with standard 3/8 and 3/8 low profile for these saws or is there a different one for low profile?





Philbert said:


> http://www.oregonproducts.com/pdf/sprockets/RimSproxFB0601.pdf
> 
> Philbert



They are different, as the lo-pro/picco needs a larger rim to compensate for the low profile chain chassis. The bar sprockets are different as well.

Oregon doesn't offer lo-pro rims, that's why they don't show up in the link.


----------



## Rusty Barlow (Feb 19, 2016)

I hope these are available soon. The nose on our Husky 55's bar assploded yesterday. I found an old bar to get by on, but the speedcut bar looks promising.


----------



## can (Mar 1, 2016)

annyone knows when the new 95 txl chain is comming?


----------



## Philbert (Mar 7, 2016)

On the Oregon website:
https://www.oregonproducts.com/pro/products/chain/95TXL.htm

_*95TXL Chain *
Work faster, sharper, easier, with a more efficient chain. Ideal for arborists and property owners who want top performance. 95TXL is for saws up to 55 cc. (Replaces 95VPX.) SpeedCut™ 95TXL narrow kerf cutting systems are more efficient, needing less power from the saw than standard cutting systems. Low-vibration, Micro Chisel cutters have small-radius working corners for excellent performance and easy maintenance. Get a faster, easier cut with a reshaped cutting surface. A sharper, more durable cutting edge from a new precision grind and optimized cutting angle. Always use SpeedCut narrow kerf chain in combination with SpeedCut or Micro-Lite bars. 





.325" pitch, .050" gauge 



95TXL chain is intended for use with gasoline-powered saws up to 55 cc with bars up to 20" (50cm). _

Philbert


----------



## svk (Mar 7, 2016)

Curious if this new cutter will migrate into other Oregon chains like 3/8 LP?


----------



## can (Mar 8, 2016)

wrote a email to oregon today and asked them when this new chain is out in the US marked and when the norwegian dealers will have itt.


----------



## Philbert (Mar 17, 2016)

Still waiting to see these 'in the flesh', so to speak. Here is another Oregon promotional video shared by @LegDeLimber:



Philbert


----------



## wde_1978 (Mar 17, 2016)

Philbert said:


> Still waiting to see these 'in the flesh', so to speak. Here is another Oregon promotional video shared by @LegDeLimber:
> 
> 
> 
> Philbert



Huh! 

It took the dude 2 minutes to make that one cut in the clip... , must be the saws fault...


----------



## can (Mar 19, 2016)

Oregon told me too contact my norwegian oregon dealer, I did he is going to send me the oregon speed cut bar and chain as soon as he get them for free so i can try them out, very nice. He expected to have the chain and bar in the summer of -16


----------



## Philbert (Mar 19, 2016)

From the current Oregon catalog: Note that since it is narrow kerf .325 chain, it is rated only for saws up to 55cc and bars up to 20 inches.










Philbert


----------



## can (Mar 20, 2016)

yes but i will try it on my jonsered 2260, I have been running picco on a stihl 361 before with no problem. But the main saw i will use itt one will bee the hva 550 xp.


----------



## Philbert (Mar 24, 2016)

*Why Can't We Be Friends? - 1*

_Upfront_

Couple of caveats:
1. The macro function of my smartphone camera is not great.
2. These chains were not all acquired at the same time - some might be older models or versions.
3. I am more of a woodworker guy than a precision machinist.

That said . . . . I* visually* compared some of the new, Oregon 95TXL chain, with a couple of similar chains that I had available:
- Oregon 95VP (_not_ 95VPX)
- Husqvarna H30
- Carlton K1
Each of these is a .325" pitch, .o50" gauge, narrow kerf, semi-chisel chain. The Carlton chain was lightly used, the rest were new or NOS.

_Low-Kickback?_

- The Carlton chain shown lacks any type of low-kickback bumpers (some other Carlton chains have them).
- The 95VP and the H30 have identical low-kickback drive links, and are each classified as 'l_ow-kickback chains_'. 95VPX chain (_not_ in photos) has low-kickback drive links similar in appearance to the 95TXL chain, and *is* classified as a '_low-kickback chain_'.
- The 95TXL chain has low-kickback drive links similar in appearance to those on the 95VPX chain, but is _*not*_ classified as a 'l_ow-kickback chai_n'.

Confused yet? Oregon says that compliance with the ANSI B175.1 standard is _performance_ based. So, even though it has low-kickback drive links, and offers '_some_' kickback reducing advantages, it does not meet the requirements to be labeled as a _'low-kickback chain' _based on test fixture performance.

_Links to the Oregon product info page, and professional photographs, for these three, similar, chains:_

https://www.oregonproducts.com/pro/products/chain/95TXL.htm
https://www.oregonproducts.com/pro/products/chain/95VPX.htm
https://www.oregonproducts.com/pro/products/chain/95VP.htm

Philbert


----------



## Philbert (Mar 24, 2016)

_*Why Can't We Be Friends? - 2*_

_(they are always so shiny and pretty when new!)_



Side View (top to bottom):
95TXL
95VP
H30
K1



Top View (top to bottom):
K1
H30
95VP
95TXL






Oblique Views (top to bottom):
K1
H30
95VP
95TXL

Philbert


----------



## Philbert (Mar 24, 2016)

_*Why Can't We Be Friends? - 3*

Visual Differences
_
Clearly some cosmetic differences. The 'Oregon' logo almost appears to be etched in, instead of stamped. The witness marks on the new chain have a different appearance, and continue down along the side plate. The embossed tie strap is more of a flattened 'X' shape than linear. The 95TXL has oil retention grooves stamped into both sides of the drive links, instead of the holes. Bluing is more noticeable. As mentioned above, the shape of the low kickback drive link bumper looks more like those on the 95VPX chain.

_Hook / Grind / Shape_

The 95TXL has a more pronounced hook angle than the other chains, and the grind is taken deeper into the gullet. This is consistent with their comments that it is more aggressive '_out of the box_'. Not sure how this chain would compare if each of the others was ground identically. There are even noticeable differences in grind between the 'identical' 95VP and H30 chains, which may be a function of different manufacturing dates, or different specs by Husky?

Oregon is recommending a 35/55°/10° grinder setting for the 95TXL, but seems to be encouraging users to file, in order to maintain the factory grind. Specs for the 95VPX were 30°/55°/10°.

The variation in the _backs_ of each cutter is interesting. Note how the Carlton cutters are almost square, while the others have different degrees of clipping.

It is hard to tell if the radius of curve along the edge of these semi-chisel chains varies by much. I would need more precision measuring ability than I have. There may be significant differences in many cutter angles that are significant in controlled tests, but not obvious to my eyes.

_Cutter Length_

Cutter length also varies among the four samples shown, with the Carlton and Husqvarna chains being around 0.020" longer. Again, some of this may be due to different manufacturing dates, or it may be due to the grind; especially the differences between the 'identical' 95VP and H30 chains.

_Significant?_

Oregon has put a lot of time and money into this new chain, so I have to assume that there were significant differences under controlled testing. I hope to try some of this side-by-side with the 95VP chain at an upcoming GTG in a few weeks, to see if it makes a practical difference for general cutting. Since 95TXL will be replacing 95VPX, it is what we will be buying down the road.

Philbert


----------



## Franny K (Mar 24, 2016)

It looks the improvement is in the stamping of the tie strap and slots of sorts on the sides of the drive link. I think I see the slots on both sides of all the drive links. Otherwise the difference seems the Carlton one K1 is simpler. not offset depth gauge, no bumper tie strap, no oiling features on tie strap or drive link and as mentioned the heel.


----------



## Philbert (Mar 24, 2016)

Franny K said:


> I think I see the slots on both sides of all the drive links. Otherwise the difference seems the Carlton one K1 is simpler.


Yes, the oil carrying grooves are on both sides of the new 95TXL chain.

The Carlton chain is available with bumper links (K1NK-BL). Bailey's sells it both ways (Woodland Pro 20NK / 20NKB). The one shown is just something I had, so I included it for comparison. STIHL does not offer a narrow kerf chain, as far as I know.

Interesting point on the offset depth gauges on the other 3 chains. Wonder how that affects chain tracking and performance. Carton even looks like a lower profile cutter. Some of this might have to be tested under controlled conditions - otherwise, it is just speculation.

Philbert


----------



## can (Mar 25, 2016)

The 95 txl teeth looks short i think, is the chain out on the marked in the USA?


----------



## Philbert (Mar 25, 2016)

can said:


> The 95 txl teeth looks short i think, is the chain out on the marked in the USA?


The cutter lengths on the 95TXL and 95VP samples I have measure out about the same.
The box that I received the 95TXL in has no country of origin identified.

*EDIT*: the ones at Lowe's (see first post in this thread) are marked '_Made in Canada_'.

Philbert


----------



## can (Mar 26, 2016)

Ok when you Will do the 95 chain Will you hand file itt or use something Else?


----------



## SawTroll (Mar 26, 2016)

Philbert said:


> ....
> 
> _Low-Kickback?_
> 
> ...



It lacks _separate_ bumpers - but it has very large and ramped rakers, that also is a low-kickback feature.

After the Stihl RSK was discontinued, I don't think there is a single current chain model in .325 or 3/8" that doesn't have any kind of low-kickback feature. It can be ramps on the drivers, large ramped rakers or bumpers on the tie straps - all in various shapes and sizes. Then there are designs like the Oregon vanguard....



Philbert said:


> Confused yet? Oregon says that compliance with the ANSI B175.1 standard is _performance_ based. So, even though it has low-kickback drive links, and offers '_some_' kickback reducing advantages, it does not meet the requirements to be labeled as a _'low-kickback chain' _based on test fixture performance.



_That_ isn't confusing at all, but rather helps tidy the mess of different designs up a bit.
*
To me it is perfectly logic that what decides if the chain is "green" or "yellow" are the results (performance) recorded during the ANSI testing - and not subjective opinions on what looks like what.
*
Such subjective (and uneducated) opinions are way too common on the different saw forums, and even among those who make "conversion tables" between different brands/models.


----------



## SawTroll (Mar 26, 2016)

Franny K said:


> It looks the improvement is in the stamping of the tie strap and slots of sorts on the sides of the drive link. I think I see the slots on both sides of all the drive links. Otherwise the difference seems the Carlton one K1 is simpler. not offset depth gauge, *no bumper tie strap*, no oiling features on tie strap or drive link and as mentioned the heel.



None of the pictured chains have bumper *tie straps. *That is a feature that is getting more and more unusual, likely for good reasons. There is a version of the Carlton that has it though.

Another difference with the Carlton is that it doesn't have a low-vibe chassis.

You said the Carlton is simpler (which is true) - but it also is a _cruder_ chain.
*
*


----------



## Franny K (Mar 26, 2016)

SawTroll said:


> None of the pictured chains have bumper *tie straps. *That is a feature that is getting more and more unusual, likely for good reasons.




I should have typed bumper drive link in post 86.

I also notice the discontinuing of chain models that the cutting edge is is close to the depth gague in favor of the cutting part moving rearward, getting longer and the depth gauge moving forward. 33 sl and lg and 91vx as examples. The 33 sl and lg both hardly have enough space for the file when new.

Just a question in general, Is this 95TXL green label chain on a 10 tooth nose bar and of what length bar?


----------



## Philbert (Mar 26, 2016)

It is '_yellow_' chain, based on performance tests. 

Philbert


----------



## SawTroll (Mar 26, 2016)

Something that is a pity, is that Oregon didn't make a chisel version as well when they redesigned the 95VPX into the TXL, as the lack of a chisel option keep many people from using .325NK.


----------



## SawTroll (Mar 26, 2016)

Philbert said:


> It is '_yellow_' chain, based on performance tests.
> 
> Philbert



That's interesting, as it sounds like an indication that they may need to keep the 95VPX in production as well as the TXL...


----------



## can (Mar 26, 2016)

Why Not produce both?


----------



## Philbert (Mar 26, 2016)

SawTroll said:


> . . they may need to keep the 95VPX in production as well as the TXL...


I can't tell you what they are _thinking_. What they are _saying_ is that 95TXL is replacing 95VPX. They are describing it as more of a '_professional_' chain.

Interesting point (no pun intended) on the chisel chain. I know of at least one potential customer in Norway!

Philbert


----------



## SawTroll (Mar 26, 2016)

Philbert said:


> I can't tell you what they are _thinking_. What they are _saying_ is that 95TXL is replacing 95VPX. They are describing it as more of a '_professional_' chain.
> 
> Interesting point (no pun intended) on the chisel chain. I know of at least one potential customer in Norway!
> 
> Philbert



If it is "yellow", that is of course consistent with "more professional". The issue I see is that a lot of 50cc and smaller saws mostly are sold with the "green" 95VPX chain today, and I doubt all the brands involved will be happy with swapping to a "yellow" chain. I'm not sure ANSI will be happy either, in the US.

The ANSI thing may of course solve itself if Husky starts making their own "green" .325NK chain (which I assume they will) - but where is the gain for Oregon then? Cutting losses only, by offering a more professional option as replacement/aftermarket chain?

Another interesting observation is that the new Oregon Speedcut bars seem to have "borrowed" features from the Husky Techlite bars.

It could be quite interesting to compare the new "pro" NK bars from Husky with the Speedcut and the Sugihara NK bars - but for my part only if there was a chisel chain option....


----------



## Philbert (Apr 10, 2016)

I had a chance to try the 95TXL chains Saturday at the Staples, MN GTG. Temps were in the low to mid 20's. I used my Husqvarna 353 with 16" and 20" bars, and cut some (possibly frozen?) red oak and spruce of varying diameters, alternating between chains every 3 cuts or so, to compare them in _'the same_' wood.

I had planned on comparing the new chains with _'new-out-of the-box_' 95VP chains to be objective. But I grabbed a lightly used (one sharpening?) loop of Carlton K1NK (no drive link bumper) for the 16-inch bar, by mistake. And the new loop of 95VP I grabbed for the 20-inch bar had 4 backwards cutters (dealer spun)! So I had to swap that one for a (twice sharpened?) loop of very similar Husqvarna H30 chain in very good condition.







The Carlton chain cut noticeably faster, even in the smaller diameter wood. The new loop of 95TXL appeared to perform very similarly to the H30 chain.

The different chains, obviously, had different (or no) drive link bumpers; different grind angles; and were at different points in their wear life, so some may not describe these as completely 'fair' or 'objective' comparisons. I was just comparing performance between these chains in actual cutting conditions. And it is fair to compare different chains as well.

I was surprised. I was expecting a noticeably faster, more aggressive chain, possibly with more 'self-feeding' action, due to the manufacturer's description and the pronounced cutter hook. It's not that the 95TXL chain did not cut well - it did. But I did not notice an improvement over these comparison chains, under the conditions described.

After the side-by-side comparisons, I also tried the 95TXL in a variety of other cutting situations, including bore cutting and '_noodling_', and found it to cut acceptably well.

Bottom line? In _this_ comparison, under _these_ conditions, the 95TXL chains cut acceptably, but did not show a noticeable improvement over the other chains. I would not hesitate to use it, but would not be in a hurry to replace my existing chains. Not sure if things will change with use and wear.

Philbert


----------



## svk (Apr 10, 2016)

I can't believe a dealer spun those backwards!


----------



## Philbert (Apr 10, 2016)

svk said:


> I can't believe a dealer spun those backwards!


Sometimes dealers hire cheap help . . . .

I bought the chain off eBay for about $6 (?), so it is still a good deal, even if I have to fix it. I 'm not sure that the seller even knew about the backwards links; he listed it as inventory from a closed out shop, and the other chains I received from him were fine.

_Caveat emptor baby!_

Philbert


----------



## svk (Apr 10, 2016)

Yeah it's a good think you are the chain Yoda! I'm sure that thing disturbed the force quite significantly!


----------



## Philbert (Apr 10, 2016)

svk said:


> Yeah it's a good think you are the chain Yoda! I'm sure that thing disturbed the force quite significantly!


I felt stupid. It's very easy to mount a chain backwards on STIHL saws (outboard sprockets mostly): you place the chain on the guide bar, then decide to flip it, to balance wear, as you mount it: backward cutters. *Everyone* has done this (or will). On Husqvarna saws (inboard sprockets mostly): you have to place the chain over the clutch drum first, so it is easy to see the cutter direction.

So, I mounted the chain and bar on my Husky, looked down to check chain tension, and felt like maybe I should not be running a chainsaw any more that day. Then I looked down again and saw cutters facing forward!!! On inspection, it is clear to see the difference between the factory spun rivets and the 'aftermarket' spun rivets.

Another good reason to carry spare chains with you in the field!

Philbert


----------



## Franny K (Apr 10, 2016)

Philbert said:


> I felt stupid. It's very easy to mount a chain backwards on STIHL saws
> Philbert



The Stihl I have puts the picture of the cutter on the clutch cover, I forget which other saw I have that has the picture of the cutter so you can see it when the cover is off.


----------



## rageej (Apr 10, 2016)

Philbert said:


> *Update on New SpeedCut Guide Bar*
> 
> Illustration from the 2016 Oregon Forestry Catalog
> http://content.yudu.com/web/y5b2/0A...h/resources/index.htm?referrerUrl=#noRedirect
> ...


These bars implement technologies which have been in service on trailers for many years. I'm excited to get my hands on these bars & chains as I've been planning to switch to .325nk now that I only have the 346 left. The improvements to lubrication on the chain are quite interesting, hopefully will be up there with Stihl chain now. As for out of the box sharpness and grind angles... who cares? First thing you do to a chain is file/grind it to your needs depending on wood and conditions. I will admit the Stihl chain did impress me with "out of the box" sharpness and longevity but I still sharpen it at the end of the day and I am not in production which is why a chain which lubes well and costs less is far more appealing to me usually. From the looks of this system though that could change.


----------



## OBX Koastie (Apr 11, 2016)

I spoke with the distributor in Richmond and he confirmed the general statement from Oregon Tech support of the 95TXL being available in June 2016. The distributor for VA said they have confirmation of shipping date of June 16.

Interesting that the new chain is not significantly improved over the 95VPX and the WoodlandPro NK. I had previously posted that the WoodlandPro NK chains thaty I had received were no longer made in Canada but in China. They seem to be holding up up and cutting as well as my Canada WP NK chains. I already got a couple of narrow kerf chains for my Echo CS-500P as it appears Oregon won't be making that mount any longer in narrow kerf. I think I'll be ordering some VPX chain as I'd like to keep my money over here. (While the WoodlandPro Chinese chains appear to work OK, I am still a fan of sending as little as possible in the way of my dollars to China.)


----------



## Philbert (Apr 11, 2016)

I like to keep a big '*' in my field testing comments, because it not done under laboratory controls, even though I try to be objective. These were chains that I happened to have, and were each several years old. Can't compare the Carlton chain I had to any made in China. Technically, the H30 chain is more similar to 95VP than 95VPX, if that makes a difference. But, with all of those caveats, I did not notice an improvement over the chains I had, cutting that wood, in those conditions. Hopefully, more A.S. members will try the 95TXL as it becomes more available and share their results. Some of this is on the shelves, locally, at Lowe's (where is where this whole thread got started!).

Philbert


----------



## OBX Koastie (Apr 11, 2016)

Philbert,
Thank you so much for keeping up with this. I finally got to someone at Oregon Technical Support who while she did not know the answer, promised she would get back to me; and she did. The question I had was whether the Oregon "Pro" chain in the black Oregon packaging I purchased at Lowes that listed it as an M72 based on what is on the tie strap was a 95VPX chain as B**** at Oregon Technical Support had told me and contradicted the literature in the package or the 95TXL chain that is listed in the literature in the package as the new Oregon "M" series of chain. The answer: It is neither! It is hybrid with 95TXL drive links with the oil channels, reduced vibration, non-ANSI low kickback, etc and the 95VPX cutter. That is why your VPX chain and the Lowes "TXL" chain cutters look so similar. According to S******* at Oregon Tech Support, the delivery of the TXL is delayed now until August, not June as their distributor told me.

This could be why you did not notice any significant improvement in cutting with the Lowes "TXL." 

Thanks for all the time you spend keeping us informed. I am not a professional, but I do learn an awful lot from reading the posts of those who are. Again, thanks.

Kim


----------



## Philbert (Apr 11, 2016)

OBX Koastie said:


> . . .It is hybrid with 95TXL drive links . . . , etc and the 95VPX cutter.


*! ! ! *

If this is correct, I would have looked pretty foolish claiming large performance gains in my testing! (_Whew!_). Pays to be honest! As noted in an earlier post, the cutters _look_ very similar, except for the factory grind, so that sounds very plausible (except for why they might do that).

Thanks for your follow up too! Input from lots of members is what make forums like this great!

Philbert


----------



## Philbert (Jul 22, 2016)

*More New Packaging?*

Saw these new packages at a home center - the chain inside looks the same.




Philbert


----------



## Franny K (Jul 22, 2016)

There is a trademark symbol next to low profile.


----------



## Philbert (Jul 22, 2016)

TM, ®, and © all over the things.

Old package looks easier to open and re-use for chain storage. New one looks harder to open and shoplift chain, and highlights the ID link.

I mostly want to know if the chains are different - sent a letter to Oregon to ask.

Philbert


----------



## Franny K (Jul 23, 2016)

I came across a web location that has a lot of information about both the new bars and chain.

http://www.oregonproducts.dk/dk/speedcuttm-system/faq.html

One thing I quote is here "SpeedCut™ is not currently available in a narrow-kerf full chisel cutter. Oregon does offer a full-chisel standard kerf .325 saw chain under the model number 20LPX."

I have expressed my opinions about this .325nk chain before.

I did just get one of these new bars though a hard to refuse price on ebay, 6 left at this time. I accept that it may be seconds or early release or something along those lines. It could also just be a marketing test. There is no numbering on either the bar or the package. It is marked made in China on the package as is noted in the above link. It is a K095 mount. It is light. Has like stihl (picco anyways)nose bearing in that no grease hole or other holes. The oil input is well thought out, at an angle and a pocket for the oil to puddle. Judging by how close the rivet for the nose are together I estimate it is designed for the 55cc max size the chain is rated for.


----------



## Philbert (Jul 23, 2016)

What length is it? I have been waiting for a sample to demo for a long time. Do you have other Oregon or Husqvarna NK / 'Micro-Lite' bars to compare it to?

Philbert


----------



## Franny K (Jul 23, 2016)

I took this picture of what I have nearby. A Craftsman 72 dl "18" modified for Stihl 3005 mount, a made in Norway Husqvarna 64dl 15" and this new one. The Husqvarna one has the A tail that seems to get called a K tail in 13 and 15 size, it also might be more suited for 63 drive links (but I like balanced loops) it ends up kind of far away. The Craftsman one is the same thickness, not a standard 0.325 bar, is NK.

The Speedcut one is about one mm wider than the Craftsman and about 3mm wider than the Husky one. I do not have a scale nearby but using a welding rod I think the speedcut one is a bit lighter than the Craftsman one by a ratio of about 6 to five and a half. It is one and thirteen sixteenths longer than the Craftsman one, called 20 inches 78 dl though I have yet to wrap a chain on it.


----------



## SawTroll (Jul 23, 2016)

Philbert said:


> *More New Packaging?*
> 
> Saw these new packages at a home center - the chain inside looks the same.
> 
> ...



The silly thing is that the packages doesn't tell exactly what chain model is inside - so you have to go to the Oregon website to find out...


----------



## Philbert (Jul 23, 2016)

SawTroll said:


> The silly thing is that the packages doesn't tell exactly what chain model is inside - so you have to go to the Oregon website to find out...


These are consumer store packages. They are 3/8 low pro, .050 gauge, low kickback, and a specified number of drive links. But the exact Oregon model varies. I have seen 91PX, 91VG, embossed ties traps, '4-way' tie straps, drive links with/without holes, etc.

Philbert


----------



## ChoppyChoppy (Jul 23, 2016)

svk said:


> I think this is helpful for Joe homeowner who doesn't know how many links, gauge, or pitch. But if he can remember a letter and number sequence it simplifies things.
> 
> Have you ever watched a homeowner who didn't bring the old chain along try to buy chain from a store employee who doesn't know saws? It can be comical. On an OT note, one time a hardware store employee told me that Oregon 72 and 73 chains are the same but the 73 chain is better because it is a newer model.....facepalm lol




Shoot, even if they do know saws...

Get it once in a while...

"I need a chain for my xxxx saw."

Ok, what bar length?

"Uh..... dunno. Can't you just make me a chain. I bought one here 6 years ago, don't you remember?"


----------



## fordf150 (Jul 23, 2016)

I ordered a few of the speed cut bars to try out but they are all on backorder


----------



## SawTroll (Jul 24, 2016)

Philbert said:


> *Yes, I know they are*. They are 3/8 low pro, .050 gauge, low kickback, and a specified number of drive links. But the exact Oregon model varies. I have seen 91PX, 91VG, embossed ties traps, '4-way' tie straps, drive links with/without holes, etc.
> 
> Philbert



Yes I know they are - but don't consumers deserve to know what they are buying?

It can't hurt much to include the "real" designation in small print on the package, in addition to the "consumer code".


----------



## Philbert (Jul 25, 2016)

Philbert said:


> I mostly want to know if the chains are different - sent a letter to Oregon to ask.


Response from Oregon is that the chains are the same (91PX in current 'S' packaging). The 'AdvanceCut' name and new packaging is just part of new branding / marketing of their products across a variety of dealer channels. 

I was happy with the 'old' name and package; but then again, Blount is an $800 million company, with 60%+ of all saw chain sales world-wide, and I'm just Philbert . . .

Philbert


----------



## Franny K (Jul 25, 2016)

I know this is not the 0.325NK of the title of the thread here.
Look at the chain in the red package, I think I see dimpling on every other drive link.

I see that S chain and others with the lettering at the local hardware store. Not sure who buys it. It is cheaper to go to the Stihl dealer (some of which are also hardware stores that make chain loops) and have it made if not on the shelf. Maybe Menards, Home depot, Lowes are priced different, I do not think tractor supply is any bargain.


----------



## Philbert (Jul 25, 2016)

Franny K said:


> I know this is not the 0.325NK of the title of the thread here.
> Look at the chain in the red package, I think I see dimpling on every other drive link.


I assume that you are referring to the 91PX chain in Post #111? This thread was originally posted to discuss new Oregon packaging and chain designations - I changed the title to reflect the narrow kerf (95VP and 95TXL) when those chains and the related (_Micro-Lite_) SpeedCut bars became the apparent focus.

The 'S' chains looked identical to me in the store, and the Oregon rep confirmed that. I see embossed tie straps ('LubriLink') on both; and low-kickback drive links (every other) with oil holes ('LubriWell') on both chains, stamped with the '91' designation.

It looks like we may be seeing a number of changes in the labeling and marketing of Oregon products. The trick will be to watch for any design or performance changes. 

I know that @SawTroll (and others) would like to see full-chisel chain in Type 91 (3/8 low profile) and Type 95 (.325 narrow kerf) chains. I would like to see chipper chain re-introduced for cutting dirty wood.

Philbert


----------



## svk (Jul 25, 2016)

Philbert said:


> I would like to see chipper chain re-introduced for cutting dirty wood.
> 
> Philbert


Is it really any better than semi?

Now I know why you are hoarding all of that chain


----------



## Philbert (Jul 25, 2016)

svk said:


> Is it really any better than semi?


Supposedly, for hogging dirty wood, if your saw has the grunt to pull it. Slow, but keeps going . . . 

Philbert


----------



## SawTroll (Jul 25, 2016)

Philbert said:


> Supposedly, for hogging *dirty wood*, if your saw has the grunt to pull it. Slow, but keeps going . . .
> 
> Philbert



I usually don't have such wood, but I keep a few semi-chisels around just in case + for cutting up planks etc. for fire starters.


----------



## Franny K (Jul 30, 2016)

An update about that bar I got off ebay. I broke down two 56 dl loops and made up an 78 dl loop. This bar is the perfect length and width for 78 drive links. An 8 tooth drive sprocket could be used and the chain loop easily installed even with an outboard clutch. The chain seemed kind of sloppy in the slot of the bar. The bar seems to fit 0.058 gague drive links nicely. The Craftsman one the 0.058 drive links go into the slot but the chain won't turn, it is used. The drive links won't go into the Dolmar 0.050 bar pictured essentially at all. I took a picture so you can clearly see the 34 designating 0.058 and the necked down symbol associated with NK chain that is 0.050 in 0.325 pitch. The scond picture shows how much shorter 78 dl in 0.325 is compared to 72 dl in 3/8. Both called 20 inches. The thicknesses I measured are Craftsman 0.170,Oregon 0.182, Dolmar 0.175


----------



## a. palmer jr. (Jul 30, 2016)

Looking through some of my junk today and found a bunch of brand new 3/8 .043 chain. I wonder what uses that?


----------



## OldJack (Jul 30, 2016)

a. palmer jr. said:


> Looking through some of my junk today and found a bunch of brand new 3/8 .043 chain. I wonder what uses that?



My little Stihl MS170.


----------



## Philbert (Jul 30, 2016)

Several battery powered saws and some pole pruners use that. 

Philbert


----------



## fordf150 (Jul 30, 2016)

a. palmer jr. said:


> Looking through some of my junk today and found a bunch of brand new 3/8 .043 chain. I wonder what uses that?


Pretty much all the home owner stihl saws come with that


----------



## a. palmer jr. (Jul 31, 2016)

Most of the Stihls I've had either have 3/8 .050 or .325 .063. I do have a MS250 that uses this 3/8 LP .043 stuff but it looks to have a carving bar on it.


----------



## Philbert (Aug 16, 2016)

Here is a YouTube video, posted on another site, showing 2 Oregon narrow kerf bars and chains competing against a full kerf STIHL .325 bar and chain. Note that the new 95TXL chain is slightly faster in 'transverse' 'bias' cutting (at an angle), which is what you might do making a face cut.

Philbert


----------



## 295 tramp (Aug 16, 2016)

must be little saws my 440 with a dull chain cuts faster than those.


----------



## Workin'Rabbit (Aug 17, 2016)

I'm sure they wanted something that wouldn't just buzz right through no matter what chain was on it 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk


----------



## OBX Koastie (Aug 17, 2016)

I bought three of the new Oregon 95TXL chains from Loggerchain (don't know if I can say that but that is what I did). I tried one of them yesterday in some two month old nasty dirty pine that we were removing from a senior citizen's property. The tree company she contracted just left them! I don't do timed cuts or anything but this chain is definitely smoother and seems to stay sharp longer than the the WoodlandPro NK chain I got from Bailey's. I think it is better than the older Made in Canada NK chain they used to carry and I really liked that chain. It holds up better than the newer WoodlandPro NK chain Made in China and this was really dirty wood! However, the Oregon chain is slightly more expensive than the WoodlandPro but it is Made in Canada, at least for now! I also have one of the "hybrid" Oregon chains from Lowes that appears to be very similar but I haven't compared cutting with the new versus the "hybrid." On my Echo CS-500P with an 18" bar and chain it is almost as fast as my Stihl MS362 with semi-chisel chain and a 20" bar in 16" wood. I know I am not comparing apples to apples, but for smaller wood, I prefer the 50cc saw as it is significantly lighter and cuts almost as fast with this newly designed chain. Since I am retired, don't do this for a living, and I am anything but an expert I only know what seems to work and I really do appreciate all the helpful insights I get off this site. Now if I could just get my 500P and 362 to stop vapor locking in these 95+ temps we have been having all would be good! I use 93 octane non-ethanol with Red Armor mix at 50:1. Not trying to hijack the thread but any thoughts would be appreciated. (I cut and split wood for our church's firewood mission and another guy and I do about 40 - 50 cords a year.)


----------



## Philbert (Aug 17, 2016)

Some of Bailey's 'WoodlandPRO' Narrow Kerf chain is re-branded Carlton chain. Some of it is re-branded Tri-Link ('OOO'). Might explain some of the performance differences.

Philbert


----------



## Philbert (Aug 17, 2016)

Updated my cutting definition graphic.




Philbert


----------



## Ranchers-son (Aug 27, 2016)

Does anyone know when the Oregon versacut bars are coming out?


----------



## Philbert (Dec 23, 2016)

Finally got a 20" SpeedCut bar for my Husqvarna 353



Compared the weight with the OEM bar: saves 5 ounces, which is about 18%:




Bar groove is slightly longer, and has angled oil holes, vs the slightly larger diameter, conventional holes on the Husky bar.



The bar has an unusual, dull, almost rough finish. Have to mount it on the saw and see how it affects the overall balance and compare flexibility - my only real concern with narrow kerf bars.

Philbert


----------



## Franny K (Mar 29, 2017)

There are a whole bunch of these threads.
Oregon speed cut is currently purchasing a spot in a changing spot just to the right of the Arboristsite name (desktop computer view)
If you click on it it takes you to a link which among other things has a video comparing 95txl, Stihl .325rm and 95vpx. They do 2 diagonal and 3 bucking cuts with a 50cc Stihl. Claim they chose the comparable Stihl product. Times are 1.11, 1.15 and 1.28. They could of course have equipped the saw with the 63 class picco chain and 7 tooth drive.



If nothing else no sense in getting some of the new stuff if you already have the old NK at least for speed.


----------



## PDXchain (Mar 30, 2017)

Philbert said:


> _*Why Can't We Be Friends? - 3*
> 
> Visual Differences
> _
> ...




The TXL chain is ground on a CBN grinder with a special grinding wheel. By looking at the wide gullet you can see that the wheel comes in and grinds the bottom of the gullet first, then it sweeps up to form the radius that tangents with the hook angle. If they are recommending 55 degrees on the head angle, they are probably actually grinding these at 50 degrees but they don't want to specify that in the filing instructions because everyone is used to a 60 degree head angle, and they don't want to confuse people. From what I have been told, this chain was a carrot on a stick developed to try and keep the Husky business. Their bread and butter was supplying .325" semi chain to Husky, and they are really concerned about Husky producing their own chain. I haven't cut with the new husky chain but from what I hear it performs very well. Well enough that the guys at Oregon were pretty disappointed that Husky could actually produce a good chain. I have a loop of the TXL chain but I haven't cut with it yet either.

You can bet that they tested the ever loving crap out of the chain before going to market. They will delay a chain project to squeeze 1.5% more performance from a chain. The kid that worked on the chain is a very bright engineer. Kind of a Dexter's laboratory type. They have got rid of, or reassigned most of the seasoned engineers there to replace with young guys that like watching anime cartoons, driving the little cars that sound like bumble bees, and playing dungeons and dragons on the weekends. I don't think any of them have ever even fell a tree. If the TXL is not low-kick certified yet, they are working on it. They will play with it until they can achieve certification while losing as little performance as possible.

As far as the bar goes, they have been working on a lightweight bar core for years. Their aluminum replaceable nose bar is a big improvement for felling. Making a 16" laminated bar lighter than it already is seems a little odd, but they have so much time and effort into the bar project they probably figured it would be a good marriage to combine projects. They have a difficult time coming up with new products over there. I don't see a quick payback on this one because it is NK, and Husky is producing a satisfactory chain on their own.


----------



## Franny K (Mar 30, 2017)

PDXchain said:


> If the TXL is not low-kick certified yet, they are working on it. They will play with it until they can achieve certification while losing as little performance as possible.
> 
> .......... I don't see a quick payback on this one because it is NK, and Husky is producing a satisfactory chain on their own.



Looks like there is already the video I found back on post #154. I do not know about the payback stuff they seem to be spending on advertising for the new speedcut line.

You seem pretty knowledgable about this product. What sort bar life (or bar life with a nice tight groove) improvement is gained with the new drive link's oil distributing feature.

I have 56dl and 78 dl loops of vintage H30 chain and bars in 095 to match if someone wants to bring over a 50 or 55cc saw and some of the new improved chain. Also have some realistic stuff to cut with a little walking. trim oak near the main stem type of testing. Neither the fueledIowa youtube or this one here seem realistic for an evaluation for general use. Maybe for firewood cross cutting.


----------



## PDXchain (Apr 1, 2017)

Franny K said:


> Looks like there is already the video I found back on post #154. I do not know about the payback stuff they seem to be spending on advertising for the new speedcut line.
> 
> You seem pretty knowledgable about this product. What sort bar life (or bar life with a nice tight groove) improvement is gained with the new drive link's oil distributing feature.
> 
> I have 56dl and 78 dl loops of vintage H30 chain and bars in 095 to match if someone wants to bring over a 50 or 55cc saw and some of the new improved chain. Also have some realistic stuff to cut with a little walking. trim oak near the main stem type of testing. Neither the fueledIowa youtube or this one here seem realistic for an evaluation for general use. Maybe for firewood cross cutting.



Bar life is a difficult one to predict. In theory, the serrations seem like they would retain lube well but realistically it is almost impossible to determine how much. The dimples like Stihl uses actually provide more lubrication because the oil is trapped in the dimples. Same with the hole in the drive links. The oil gets trapped and isn't influenced by centrifugal force. Simple observation will tell you that the serrations should provide more oil. Equating that to bar life is difficult because of the many variables involved. Nothing oils better than a clear bar oil hole and oil slot on the saw mount. This should always provide more than enough oil to the chain and bar.


----------



## CoreyB (Apr 1, 2017)

I have been cutting every weekend with the 16" .325nk speed cut bar and 95txl chain as well as the 20 in versa cut 3/8 bar


----------



## CoreyB (Apr 1, 2017)

I have also been grinding at least two txl chains a week. I can get them to cut faster but not as smooth as stock. They do seem to hold an edge well. And the 35-55-10 is not an exact match


----------



## Philbert (Apr 1, 2017)

PDXchain said:


> In theory, the serrations seem like they would retain lube well . . . Equating that to bar life is difficult because of the many variables involved.


I always assumed that the extra oil helped more to maintain chain drive link life (softer metal) than bar groove life (harder metal).

Philbert


----------



## PDXchain (Apr 4, 2017)

Philbert said:


> I always assumed that the extra oil helped more to maintain chain drive link life (softer metal) than bar groove life (harder metal).
> 
> Philbert



Actually, the bar groove (below .100" from the hardened outer rail), is about Hrc 46 max. The chain drive link is about Hrc 49-55 depending on the manufacturer. Anytime you can carry more oil through bar grooves you will extend the life of the chain and bar both. Just looking at the different oil assist features on saw chain we all assume they will work, and probably do to some extent. The problem is that a lot of the oil is thrown off at the nose due to centrifugal force. Any oil is better than no oil


----------



## Philbert (Jul 14, 2017)

*Been a while . . .
*
I got the bar a while back, but have been using other saws, so no chance to really test these bars and chains. Sorry for the delay.

I have used narrow kerf (NK) .325 bars and chain on my Husqvarna 353 since I bought it - that was what came with it, and I like the way it cut. 

Supposedly, this narrower kerf stuff takes a smaller bite, which makes better use of your saw's power. H30 or Oregon Type 95 chain, which probably came out of the same factory, until Husqvarna started making their own bars and chains recently.

The only concern I had about NK was that the bar seemed a bit more flexible than a standard .325 bar, which was more noticable with the longer (20") length bar. So, when Oregon said that these new SpeedCut bars were stiffer, as well as lighter, that caught my attention. But how do you evaluate that claim?

*At a secret laboratory . . *.

. . . at an undisclosed location, very near to my garage, I tried to develop a somewhat objective comparison using 'indigenous materials'. I assumed that a saw powerhead that uses these bars might weigh up to about 15 pounds. And I realized that I cared more about the _relative _stiffness and weight of the bars, as opposed to some standard measurement. Using instruments carefully certified by '_Calibrate This!_' I devised the following comparisons. All guide bars are standard, Husqvarna small mount, laminated, (non-replaceable) sprocket nose bars.




*1. Weight*

- (? unbranded) 16" nominal length: *21 ounce*s total weight
- Oregon SpeedCut 20" nominal length: *23.5 ounces*
- Husqvarna branded, 20" nominal length; *28.6 ounces*

Pretty clear that the 20" SpeedCut bar is closer in total weight to the 16" traditional bar than the traditional 20" bar.

Philbert


----------



## Philbert (Jul 14, 2017)

*2. Angle of the Dangle*

Weight is not everything. It has more of an effect on longer bars, especially out towards the tip, due to leverage. So I wanted to see what effect the lighter bar had on saw balance.

I suspended the 353 (empty tanks) from an overhead beam using a couple of ropes, so that it could pivot, and find its own balance point. I attached a carpenter's angle gauge to the only flat spot I could find (rear hand guard) with zip-ties and twisty-ties, to get relative angle measurements (yeah, I could do better in a 'real' laboratory, but this is what I had). I measured:

Power Head Only (PHO) - *14°*




Power Head with 16" conventional, NK bar - *11°*




Power Head with 20" SpeedCut NK bar - *3°*




PowerHead with 20" conventional bar - *0°*




A bit surprising, but the lighter weight SpeedCut bar did not have as much effect on saw balance, as the total weight numbers might suggest. 8 degrees difference between the 16" conventional NK bar and the 20" SpeedCut, but only 3 degrees difference between the SpeedCut and the conventional NK 20" bar. Probably even less noticable with a full tank of fuel? Yes, the total weight of the saw and bar combination is still 5 ounces lighter, but that is not that a significant percent. This is why reduced weight guide bars are typically only found in longer lengths (28 inches and above?).

Philbert


----------



## Philbert (Jul 14, 2017)

*3. Flexibility*

Again, I was interested in _relative_ flexibility between the SpeedCut and conventional NK bar, so I used each as a reference for the other. I clamped both 20" bars to a sturdy table at the end of the bar adjustment slot (slightly longer on the SpeedCut bar, so I used that point for both tests).



I used 15 pounds of weight, hung just behind the nose sprocket rivet farthest from the tip (same on both bars), and measured the separation. Flipped the bars over and tried it again.



The SpeedCut bar flexed only about 1-5/8 inches: the conventional NK bar was closer to 1-7/8 inches. About a 1/4 inch difference.




So this SpeedCut bar does appear to be *lighter *and *stiffer*. The stiffness is likely to be more noticable with narrow kerf chain users. The reduced weight will probably be more of a factor with longer length bars used with larger pitch chain.

Philbert


----------



## Franny K (Jul 15, 2017)

Philbert said:


> *3. Flexibility*
> 
> Again, I was interested in _relative_ flexibility between the SpeedCut and conventional NK bar, so I used each as a reference for the other. I clamped both 20" bars to a sturdy table at the end of the bar adjustment sl.........
> Philbert



What code are you calling conventional? Oregon had two grades. Ml and mp perhaps.


----------



## Philbert (Jul 15, 2017)

Franny K said:


> What code are you calling conventional? Oregon had two grades. Ml and mp perhaps.


One bar (16") has no printed markings, and non standard stampings. It may or may not have been made by Oregon. Looks well finished.
The other (20") is a Husqvarna OEM bar, which was presumably made by Oregon (10+ years ago?).
So by '_conventional_', I mean a well-made, NK bar, made from 3 steel laminations, spot welded together, versus some type of hollow core or other reduced weight bar.

Philbert


----------



## CoreyB (Jul 20, 2017)

Philbert said:


> *3. Flexibility*
> 
> Again, I was interested in _relative_ flexibility between the SpeedCut and conventional NK bar, so I used each as a reference for the other. I clamped both 20" bars to a sturdy table at the end of the bar adjustment slot (slightly longer on the SpeedCut bar, so I used that point for both tests).
> View attachment 590679
> ...


Good stuff!


----------



## Philbert (Jul 24, 2017)

**Correction**

Note that in Post #151 (above) the angle with the 16" conventional, NK bar should be* 6°* - sorry, but I cannot go back and edit this post. This also makes the impact of the lighter weight bar slightly more significant.

Philbert


----------



## stubnail67 (Nov 18, 2017)

Ok i tried to read the whole thread.. long story short i bought a cs490 it was recon at depot super cheap had to be a floor model brand new 20 inch bar and chain no dirt any where says fuel cap replacement....anyways it seems like 20 inch even with this narrow kerf smaller bar would be a bit much.. what would the right bar and chain narrow kerf 18 inch be?i have a few new ones in a box i bought when i had my pp295.... cant rember the mount but i think it was the same as the old echo cs 440....i also have some 16 inch as well still brand new....just have to find them....would ko95 work? to bad you could not use an a041 and lopro 3/8s and change the rim.... sure the studs are to big....let me know who has switched it to an 18 inch version and what chain you used and how you like it....thanks


----------



## stubnail67 (Nov 18, 2017)

JeremiahJohnson said:


> If I was going to run 20" on 50cc under saws. stihl PS PS3 3/8LP picco is the ticket or for you semi chisel fans just pick any other chain in 3/8LP.
> 
> echo 4500 45cc 3/8 7T with 20" picco
> 
> ...


what mount was that? and would it fit the cs 490?


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair (Nov 18, 2017)

Cant remember off hand. All in a thread on CR


----------



## stubnail67 (Nov 18, 2017)

JeremiahJohnson said:


> Cant remember off hand. All in a thread on CR


ok i will go check ot out under your echo section


----------



## Modifiedmark (Nov 18, 2017)

stubnail67 said:


> what mount was that? and would it fit the cs 490?



The 490 for some reason went to a 216? Mount. The old standby K041 mount still works just like always on it though.


----------



## svk (Feb 21, 2018)

Has anyone tried the "advancecut" line of 3/8 low profile chain? I see Walmart has it on sale.


----------



## Philbert (Feb 21, 2018)

svk said:


> Has anyone tried the "advancecut" line of 3/8 low profile chain?


Sure that it is low profile?

I thought 'AdvanceCut' was just a re-badging of Oregon 'Vanguard' chain (full 3/8 pitch)?

_AdvanceCut™ Saw Chain
An ideal, low kickback chain for occasional and commercial users. Oregon 72V chain. The low-vibration full chisel cutters offer top performance to the user while also providing a smooth cutting experience via our unique, patented bent over depth gauge._




Philbert


----------



## svk (Feb 21, 2018)

I am showing S56 loops of Advancecut 3/8 LP for $6.88 a piece shipped.


----------



## svk (Feb 21, 2018)

Actually it appears to be sold by Amazon for that same price as well. At that price it hardly is worth sharpening used loops.


----------



## Philbert (Feb 21, 2018)

svk said:


> I am showing S56 loops of Advancecut 3/8 LP for $6.88 a piece shipped.


Yep. That appears to be the case. Looks like basic 'Type 91' chain (3/8 low profile, .050 gauge).
Sale price?






svk said:


> Actually it appears to be sold by Amazon for that same price as well. At that price it hardly is worth sharpening used loops.


Not if you have to pay someone (just collect them and send them to me for proper disposal).

Philbert


----------



## Philbert (Feb 21, 2018)

Here are the new product families:


_PowerCut_ = full chisel chain (round or square ground); may be reduced-kickback or not.
_SpeedCut_ = narrow kerf (.325 only).
_VersaCut_ = semi-chisel chain.
_ControlCut_ = also semi-chisel chain.
_DuraCut_ = extra thick layer of chrome (used to be Multi-Cut).
_RipCut_ = semi-chisel ripping chain.
_Sculptor _= 1/4" pitch full comp and full house chains indented for carving (but not all 1/4" pitch chains!).
_AdvanceCu_t = consumer oriented chains, including Type 90 (3/8" narrow kerf, but not all 3/8" low profile chains) and the former 'Vanguard' chain.
_PowerSharp_ = PowerSharp chain.

See how much easier they made it for us?

Philbert


----------



## stubnail67 (Feb 21, 2018)

Philbert said:


> Yep. That appears to be the case. Looks like basic 'Type 91' chain (3/8 low profile, .050 gauge).
> Sale price?
> View attachment 634754
> 
> ...


im using this in my lil echo right now from amazon... used 2 times its good enough the palm trees dont care. seemed less grabby then vxl.... not sure long term but easy to get and cheap.... seemed to sharpen easy....


----------



## stubnail67 (Feb 21, 2018)

stubnail67 said:


> im using this in my lil echo right now from amazon... used 2 times its good enough the palm trees dont care. seemed less grabby then vxl.... not sure long term but easy to get and cheap.... seemed to sharpen easy....




It says designed and made in the USA on the back of the package that made me happy....


----------



## Philbert (Feb 21, 2018)

It's the basic Oregon 3/8 low profile chain we've been using for years. New name. 

Philbert


----------



## stubnail67 (Feb 21, 2018)

Philbert said:


> It's the basic Oregon 3/8 low profile chain we've been using for years. New name.
> 
> Philbert


yea looked like basic px to me.... I wanted the smaller cutter....for my top handles...


----------



## stubnail67 (Feb 21, 2018)

stubnail67 said:


> yea looked like basic px to me.... I wanted the smaller cutter....for my top handles...


I found it after we chatted about the different chains in my one post....think i paid 9 bux... i can live with that all day mde in the USA... even better


----------



## Modifiedmark (Feb 21, 2018)

svk said:


> Has anyone tried the "advancecut" line of 3/8 low profile chain? I see Walmart has it on sale.


Better check that, far as I know the only 3/8 lp chain I have seen called advanced cut is that 90PX.043 narrow keft.


Scratch that, never mind..


----------



## Franny K (Feb 21, 2018)

Sort of like what they did with the bars a few years ago, added a bunch of words but for the most part if you just use the letters and numbers of code instead of the new words things are the same.

Control cut seems to be 1/4 and 0.325, actually is (called in the .325) BPX which they call micro chisel I think it gets bumper drive links. From the description in the picture on post #167 I was hoping for pole saw chain.
Versa cut seems not to be in 0.325 but .404,3/8 and 3/8lp sometimes called micro chisel sometimes called semi chisel sometimes not called out as far as I followed the links.
Chamfer chisel gets now an additional name of Advance cut.
I started here https://www.oregonproducts.com/en/ControlCut™-Saw-Chain,-20"/p/H78
If anyone wants to figure out how to shop for the new oil distributing features on the drive links like the new NK stuff has please post which ones.

They let a price slip out for the 25 feet of full house sculptor https://www.oregonproducts.com/en/Sculptor™-Saw-Chain,-25'-Reel/p/25F025R

sculptor is control cut but control cut is not necessarily sculptor?


----------



## Philbert (Feb 22, 2018)

Franny K said:


> Sort of like what they did with the bars a few years ago, . . .
> I started here https://www.oregonproducts.com/en/ControlCut™-Saw-Chain,-20"/p/H78


I am not happy with these name changes, but I am not a marketing guru. Also do not like the changes to their website, and have sent them some comments on that. Used to be much easier to find technical product information. But, again, it is their website.

The best information I can currently find is in their big catalog, which is available on-line, or in a PDF format. Go to: '_*Oregonproducts.com*_', select '_*Product Support*'_, then '_*2018 Print Catalog*_'. Lots of pages. Lots of information. But you have to page through a lot of stuff to find it. It would be nice if they would have better summary information pages, along with translation links like _"'Multi-Cut' is now 'DuraCut'"_, etc. for long time customers.

I don't see the 'VG' chains (bumper tie straps) listed, which are still popular with pole saw users, except on the spare parts page. And I don't see their '4-way tie straps' listed (used to be OEM on the least expensive saws). Might be discontinued? Might still be available to OEM suppliers? Hard to know.

Philbert


----------



## svk (Feb 22, 2018)

Their website totally blows since the "upgrade". It used to be really easy to navigate when you needed to figure out a bar or chain. Now I just use other sources.


----------



## decableguy2000 (Feb 22, 2018)

if you google "oregon bar selector" it will take you to the old bar/chain selector site.


----------



## svk (Feb 22, 2018)

decableguy2000 said:


> if you google "oregon bar selector" it will take you to the old bar/chain selector site.


Good information!


----------



## Franny K (Feb 22, 2018)

It seems they purged their website of some of those technical pdf files. Which even before could be better found with google or similar. Tried to find a few I saved to file. 91Vg seems purged, 33sl is still findable with google search.


----------



## Philbert (Feb 22, 2018)

Franny K said:


> It seems they purged their website of some of those technical pdf files.


Some of those PDFs might be hosted on other sites, such as vendor sites, etc. They could have archived them for reference.

Philbert


----------



## svk (Feb 26, 2018)

decableguy2000 said:


> if you google "oregon bar selector" it will take you to the old bar/chain selector site.


Bump. Used this tonight, much better.


----------



## SawTroll (Mar 1, 2018)

svk said:


> Their website totally blows since the "upgrade". It used to be really easy to navigate when you needed to figure out a bar or chain. Now I just use other sources.



I totally agree - at least so far (haven't tried it that much, but the first impression isn't good at all).


----------



## Philbert (Nov 11, 2018)

Bump

Oregon recently announced
SpeedCut Nano' - .325 _low profile_ chain!

https://www.oregonproducts.com/en/speedcutnano




Philbert


----------



## OBX Koastie (Nov 11, 2018)

Philbert said:


> Bump
> 
> Oregon recently announced
> SpeedCut Nano' - .325 _low profile_ chain!
> ...



I was considering it until I went on the Oregon website to learn #1 it is not available and #2 it is 0.043 gauge. I'll stick with my 95TXL.


----------



## Franny K (Nov 11, 2018)

I tried putting 80txl in the search box on that post two above and nothing sensible seems to come up. It really may be a new product, I see in the video they are using the Husqvarna battery saw I have the T536lixp I believe the call letters are, that has two drive sprockets available from Husqvarna one for 3/8lp and another for 1/4. So like the linked page shows you need a drive sprocket, a bar, and a chain loop.

Notice they call it a new low profile cutting system so as not to call it a "first ever" 0.325 low profile chain because the SL and LG product lines were trademarked as low profile and have been discontinued.

I also notice that the picture of the 7 tooth spur sprocket has squared off tips similar to the 6 tooth spurs common for 3/8lp. It also has the two flat method of attaching to the saw's motor shaft or output shaft in the case of those not direct drive. Kind of have to wonder how many sprockets they will offer as the Makita sprocket is perhaps a mm thicker than the Husqvarna one.

What is the likelihood this product is what they offered up for testing volunteers a few months ago.

If this is really a ground up new product I kind of wonder why they chose 0.325 as that is something familiar and this is not compatible with any existing 0.325 stuff the way it looks to me. On second thought a rim drive sprocket probably would be compatible, as long as it does not fall in the tooth notches.

I suspect it is a great product for the stuff in the video. At best expect 15% improvement over 90PX. I can not tell if the drive links are significantly smaller which seems to derail easier. Looks like the rivets are evenly spaced.


----------



## Philbert (Apr 30, 2020)

Philbert said:


> Bump
> 
> Oregon recently announced
> SpeedCut Nano' - .325 _low profile_ chain!
> Philbert



This link seems to work:






SpeedCut Saw Chain and Guide Bars | Oregon Products


SpeedCut Saw Chain and Guide Bars give wood-cutting professionals the speed, efficiency and performance they need to get the job done right. Find the right bar and chain for your chainsaw at OregonProducts.com.




www.oregonproducts.com





Philbert


----------



## Philbert (Jul 28, 2020)

Got a chance to compare the Oregon 80TXL 'Nano' chain (.325, low profile_ and_ narrow kerf, .043 gauge), side-by-side with some 91PXL (3/8, low profile, .050 gauge), and also some 91PS 'PowerSharp' (3/8, low profile, .050 gauge) on identical, Oregon, 15 Amp, corded electric saws, cutting the same wood samples. All are Oregon reduced kickback chains.

These photos show 80TXL (left), with .325 narrow kerf (Type 95VP - not in this test, middle), and the 91PXL (right) for comparison:






I cut well over 100 test 'cookies' in hard, dry, ash, cedar, and maple, as well as some fresh maple and spruce, of different diameters:




Also, tried a little 'noodling':



While I did collect some subjective cut times ('1 Husqvara', '2 Husqvara', . . . ), the interesting thing to me is how similar these performed. As a practical matter, the differences in cut times would not be significant to a casual user. Subjectively, the 'Nano' chain appears to perform slightly better than the 91PXL in smaller diameter wood, as well as softer wood. While the Nano chain did 'noodle', it produced relatively short 'noodles' and cut slower. The PowerSharp chain noodled best, in this test, with the 91PXL coming in a close second.

Differences may be more significant with lower powered (e.g. battery or pole) saws, and maybe some top handled saws used for pruning. Since the Nano chain requires unique sprockets (drive and bar nose), I would not be in a hurry to change over a saw that is satisfactorily running more conventional chain. But I am pretty sure that I would prefer it over 1/4-inch chain on those other saws. 1/4-inch chain always cuts slower for me, and does not Have a lot of cutter material for filing / sharpening. This might be it's best niche.

Philbert


----------



## Franny K (Jul 28, 2020)

It looks like the sliding surface to rivet center is pretty much the same as the 95 class chain. Is the sprocket use-able for both the 95 and 80 class chain.

Probably should have compared 90px instead of 91px?

I guess the real comparison is with the mini Stihl 1/4 inch chain. (smaller than Stihl 13rm or Oregon 25ap)


----------



## Philbert (Jul 29, 2020)

I was told that the sprockets for the Nano are specific for that chain. The Type 95 (.325 narrow kerf) chain uses standard .325 sprockets, but the thinner ‘micro-lite’, 0.050 gauge, guide bars. 

I think that comparing the Nano chain with 1/4” pitch on a battery saw would be a good idea, as well as with Type 80 (3/8” pitch, low profile and narrow kerf, .043 gauge) chain.

The comparison in this case was to see if a saw OEM equipped with 3/8 low profile/ ‘Picco’ chain would get any significant performance boost with the smaller pitch / smaller ‘bite’ chain.

Classic .325 / 3/8 pitch trade off in this case. 

Philbert


----------



## Franny K (Jul 29, 2020)

The drive links are smaller on the 80 class nano chain than normal .325. The notch where the top of a spur sprocket will fit probably is specific to the nano product. The test would be to take a section of chain cut to encircle a rim sprocket and see how the two ends match up. The 0.043 3/8 lo pro seems to work in sprockets with holes the same size that will accomidate 0.063 gauge drive links. Most chainsaws that the operator would want to mount this chain too will need a specific spur. 

Husqvarna is putting a similar or re branded mini .325 pitch on their latest battery chainsaw and using that as a selling feature.


----------



## Philbert (Aug 3, 2020)

*Nano vs. 1/4" Pitch*

Someone asked me to compare the .325" 'Nano' chain (top chain: both photos) against 1/4" pitch chain (bottom chain: both photos). This is a quick photo comparison only, not a cutting comparison.





Note that the cutter top plate length and width appear very similar for both chains. The side view, however, shows a much taller cutter on the Nano chain, poised to potentially take a deeper bite. The tooth spacing is impossible to miss: the 1/4" pitch chain has approximately 30% more cutters for the same length (2,400 drive links per 100' roll for 1/4" pitch, compared to 1,840 for .325"). The smaller chain should give a smoother cut, especially on smaller branches, but has more cutters to sharpen.

Philbert


----------



## Franny K (Aug 3, 2020)

Looks like you have Oregon 25ap as your 1/4 inch pitch subject for the pictures. Clearly the nano .325 has more effort put into the oiling aspect of things.






ControlCut™ Saw Chain, 100' Reel | Oregon Products


Get your smallest jobs done just right with Oregon ControlCut™ Saw Chain. Oregon 25AP chain is smooth and light-weight making it the ideal choice for pruning. Get product specs and fit up info at OregonProducts.com.




www.oregonproducts.com





It does not appear to be on the Oregon website in bulk. It also appears they offer bars in 074 and 095 tail.





Search | Oregon Products







www.oregonproducts.com




Not sure about the sprockets, can you find the sprocket you used on the corded electric on the Oregon site?

They also seem to be playing games with the bar lengths. Previously and with "normal" Husqvarna called lengths at least in the small mount bars.
13" 56dl
15" 64dl
16" 66dl
18" 72dl
now they call 16" 64dl for this nano product. Perhaps the sprocket is assumed closer to the bucking spike.


----------



## Philbert (Aug 3, 2020)

I try to understand the technical stuff. The marketing plans are something else, altogether.

Philbert


----------



## Philbert (Nov 21, 2020)

Bump!

Philbert


----------

