# Does any one pour used motor oil on there stacked firewood?



## ft. churchill (Aug 28, 2012)

Several people have told me that they dispose of their used motor oil by pouring it ontop of there stacked, dry firewood. Supposed to increase the btu value of the firewood. Whaddya' think? :msp_confused:


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## Mac88 (Aug 28, 2012)

ft. churchill said:


> Several people have told me that they dispose of their used motor oil by pouring it ontop of there stacked, dry firewood. Supposed to increase the btu value of the firewood. Whaddya' think? :msp_confused:



Lots of nasty stuff in used motor oil. I'm sure there are differing opinions, but there is no way would I put it in the wood stove. Besides, it would make the wood terribly messy to handle.


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## GeeVee (Aug 28, 2012)

That they are idiots


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## stihl023/5 (Aug 28, 2012)

I wouldn't burn that in a fire pit:msp_ohmy:


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## certified106 (Aug 28, 2012)

Wow I am really glad whoever does that isn't my neighbor! There is no way I would even entertain the idea of pouring motor oil on my wood stacks.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2


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## redoakneck (Aug 28, 2012)

Sounds like a bad idea. Messy, smokey and not much gain!!!


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## Gologit (Aug 28, 2012)

ft. churchill said:


> Several people have told me that they dispose of their used motor oil by pouring it ontop of there stacked, dry firewood. Supposed to increase the btu value of the firewood. Whaddya' think? :msp_confused:



Not a good idea. Not good on a whole bunch of different levels.

I'm sure we'll have somebody post who's "been doing it for years" and other than a nagging cough, black soot all over everything, an oily stench that permeates the whole house, and a marked spike in cancer rates for the area downwind, hasn't suffered any ill effects at all.


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## Highbeam (Aug 28, 2012)

I don't have a problem with burning oil, heck I've had plenty of trucks that burned oil. I am more concerned with teh mess it will make when dumping the oil on your wood. 

I'm not a tree hugger but this is just a dumb idea.


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## ShaneLogs (Aug 28, 2012)

That would smell nasty! Especially in a house. Not to mention not all of the wood is going to soak it up so some of it is going to go into the ground and pollute it.


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## blacklocst (Aug 28, 2012)

That type of mentality is why their banning OWB in certain parts. When you have geniuses trowing tires and such in their burnners, of course neighbors are going to complain.


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## ShaneLogs (Aug 28, 2012)

blacklocst said:


> That type of mentality is why their banning OWB in certain parts. When you have geniuses trowing tires and such in their burnners, of course neighbors are going to complain.



Yeah, That is just nasty and makes a mess inside it anyway!


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## Mac88 (Aug 28, 2012)

ShaneLogs said:


> Yeah, That is just nasty and makes a mess inside it anyway!



Quick and dirty disposal system. No one wants to pay the turn-in fee. I didn't say I was in favor of it, but it happens. Most everyone outside the city has their infamous "down back" where all the crap they don't want ends up. I'm still cleaning up junk that the former owners "deposited" years ago so they didn't have to haul it to the county dump site.


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## ShaneLogs (Aug 28, 2012)

Mac88 said:


> Quick and dirty disposal system. No one wants to pay the turn-in fee. I didn't say I was in favor of it, but it happens. Most everyone outside the city has their infamous "down back" where all the crap they don't want ends up. I'm still cleaning up junk that the former owners "deposited" years ago so they didn't have to haul it to the county dump site.



Yeah, There is a lot of people like that. They just dump all there chit in the woods and stuff so now there is rotted and rusted junk everywhere. I don't know why they don't get there tires shreaded up and just use it for fill.


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## zogger (Aug 28, 2012)

ft. churchill said:


> Several people have told me that they dispose of their used motor oil by pouring it ontop of there stacked, dry firewood. Supposed to increase the btu value of the firewood. Whaddya' think? :msp_confused:



I tried a small amount and it stinks when you bring it in the house.

I now pour mine out across an asphalt parking area at the airport I mow at over and around the cracks, when it is wicked hot and sunny out. It just melts into the surface and does like a cobjob repair.

Decades ago on one ranch I worked at the owner saved his and soaked fenceposts in it. I personally wouldn't do this, but it did seem to slow down rot.

When I was first driving, up in the snow and rust belt, seems like at least half the people I knew used their old crankcase oil as rust proofing under the ride, just get it in a bucket, grab a paintbrush and slather it on.

I have seen several "waste oil" heaters, one was a wood heater that drip fed the oil right into the firebox, so it was a combo unit. That was at a garage that had a lot of used oil to get rid of (again, decades ago)


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## AIM (Aug 28, 2012)

blacklocst said:


> That type of mentality is why their banning OWB in certain parts. When you have geniuses trowing tires and such in their burnners, of course neighbors are going to complain.



Of course only OWB guys have this mentality... By the way... Where was the OWB owners mentioned in the original post?

Another thought... Does the word TROLL ring a bell?


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## Gologit (Aug 28, 2012)

AIM said:


> Of course only OWB guys have this mentality... By the way... Where was the OWB owners mentioned in the original post?
> 
> Another thought... Does the word TROLL ring a bell?



The OP, Ft Churchill, never even mentioned the word OWB, just firewood piles.

He's also one of our more helpful members, never causes trouble for anybody, and generally posts things that are useful and instructive.

He's a long way from being a TROLL.


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## stihly dan (Aug 28, 2012)

Seems to me people are missing the point. It shouldn't smell , or smoke that bad. There are used oil burners everywhere, that are not as hot as our stoves. The real problem is when it runs down the wood pile to the ground, and into the water table. Especially the synthetic oil. I have herd that synthetic will slip by all the dirt and rocks. It doesn't stop until it hits the water table and spreads. Those are the idiots that spread all the bad cancer to Innocent children, and people in general. They should all be shot.
Who ever doe's this, knock it off! and smarten up!


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## forestryworks (Aug 28, 2012)

Mac88 said:


> Quick and dirty disposal system. No one wants to pay the turn-in fee. I didn't say I was in favor of it, but it happens. Most everyone outside the city has their infamous "down back" where all the crap they don't want ends up. I'm still cleaning up junk that the former owners "deposited" years ago so they didn't have to haul it to the county dump site.





ShaneLogs said:


> Yeah, There is a lot of people like that. They just dump all there chit in the woods and stuff so now there is rotted and rusted junk everywhere. I don't know why they don't get there tires shreaded up and just use it for fill.



:agree2:

It is far cheaper to pay the dump fees than to have to clean up the mess that illegal dumping leaves behind. 

Then there's the ecological consequences... and people think dump fees are expensive? :monkey:


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## wagz (Aug 28, 2012)

is that any less work than to pour it into a container and take it to a garage?


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## giXXer (Aug 28, 2012)

In my area it is free to recycle your used oil. There are a dozen or more free drop-off locations for used motor oil. When I have my truck serviced at my repair shop I leave it in the bed and they take care of it. I have the "owb mentality" and that to me is to use it as responsibly as possible so I can continue to enjoy it for years to come. That same "mentality" prevents me from burning anything (in the owb) that shouldn't be burned...i.e., oil. Most of us also get to enjoy some of the best water in the world, pumped right from under our homes. Why anyone would want to risk destroying that huge gift/blessing I will never understand.


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## Mad Professor (Aug 28, 2012)

stihl023/5 said:


> I wouldn't burn that in a fire pit:msp_ohmy:



Not even at a pig roast?


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## lmbrman (Aug 28, 2012)

Around here there are plenty of people who pay for waste oil, so disposal is not an issue. I know of ten waste oil furnaces nearby, and I never see smoke or smell oil burning near them. Several right in town.

I would never pour waste oil on wood for burning. However I have monitored a friend's sucess with a waste oil drip system on his wood furnace. Seems much cleaner than the guys that are cutting up old tires and burning them at night in the furnace.


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## ft. churchill (Aug 29, 2012)

Come on fellas, dont hold back, let me know how you really feel.:msp_thumbup: My wife's friend brother was sayin' that's what he does. I guess I got my answer.:msp_razz: Besides, I'm on a well out here, and the most valuable thing around these parts is water. The '49ers dashed across my property from one river crossing to get to the next one as there is no water here, except what comes up from my well. 'Round these parts Mark Twain said so right " whiskeys for drinkin' and water is for fightin' over.


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## farmerboybill (Aug 29, 2012)

When I lived north of Madison, my neighbor had a OWB that he burned railroad ties in. When the wind was right, it'd about choke you to death. Pissed me off to no end. Blew me away that he never got complaints (or at least I never heard of any). Guys like him are the reason OWBs are getting banned.

I have an OWB and only wood goes in it. Short pieces of 2X4 and other leftover lumber? Sure. Tires, waste oil, RR ties? Not on your life! 

I also don't buy into the, "It'll burn anything, including green wood" BS, either. Everything gets seasoned at least one year before it goes in mine.

Shops usually happily take waste oil. Where I used to work, we kept an IBC for oil out of our sprayers and floaters. When we got to 150 gallons, Jacobus Environmental Solutions would come, pump it out, and give us 40 cents a gallon.


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## dingeryote (Aug 29, 2012)

Couple of winters back, the MIL. mentioned the practice in her usual sly way of getting around asking a direct question.

She mentioned one of her sisters(there's 9 of 'em, and all Jackape raised) doing this, to get a hotter fire out of less wood.

Which when translated, means she was talking with a certain sister, that knows everything there is to know about everything, and she was considering yet another hair brained Jackape inspired scheme to get something for nothing.

That particular sister has burned down TWO Houses in the last 20 years, and had a hell of a scare with CO poisoning all 8 living with her in another.

I told her it would ruin her really pretty and expensive Soapstone stove, and might burn the damn house down if the fumes don't kill her. But I know damn well she tried it already, because I could smell it on the damn woodpile, and found the half empty old Milk jug with some really nasty old oil in it. 

It took several days before the refinery stench faded. God knows how bad it was in the house the day before we visited.
Just friggin stupid. 


Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## BarkBuster20 (Aug 29, 2012)

that would just make a huge mess, most people dont like getting pitch on there hands, who would want oil all over there hands/gloves, and all over there wheelbarrow and all inside there woodbox in the house. just stupid.


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## redheadwoodshed (Aug 29, 2012)

ft. churchill said:


> Several people have told me that they dispose of their used motor oil by pouring it ontop of there stacked, dry firewood. Supposed to increase the btu value of the firewood. Whaddya' think? :msp_confused:



I don't pour it on my firewood stacks, but I do use it to start fires in the outside firepit.Not politically correct these days, but still legal were I live.Doesn't smoke any more than pitch pine.


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## GeeVee (Aug 29, 2012)

Not raggin you FT, you asked what'd I think? I still think its stupid. There is no need, and its preventable pollution. There are so many ways to recycle oil now, it tragic people are not doing so. 

(I had to hunt real hard to find oil that wasn't manufactured with 100% virgin, so many options on the shelf at Advance/Discount Auto with XX% recycled in it. )

I just recycled a 15 gallon barrel I bought specifically to store my oil till I had enough. With all my vehicles, and equipment, I use alot of motor oil. Probably 35 gallons, and I'm not running a business.... I also usually put old stale gas in the recycleable oils. 

I need a filter crusher, I aim to fabricate one from a bottle jack, just need some c-channel and a HF jack.


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## sdt7618 (Aug 29, 2012)

Hunny " stove needs wood",

" sure dear, will just go get some from the pile"

" wtf if that black stuff all over the carpet!"

" just some old oil"

Could see my marrage lasting about as long as the next peice of wood in the stove!!


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## Blazin (Aug 29, 2012)

NO! :msp_scared:


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## D&B Mack (Aug 29, 2012)

No, have it backwards. Take a 55 gallon drum of used motor oil and submerged your firewood in that. Just like an oreo, leave it in there for a few days to soak up the oil. Pull it out, shake dry and repeat. 

Can't imagine the smell in your house if you got a heavy downdraft. :msp_w00t:

I am going to sell my used motor oil on CL as firewood seasoning.


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## redheadwoodshed (Aug 29, 2012)

It would help keep the bugs out.


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## north1 (Aug 29, 2012)

used oil from the incomplete combustion emitted into the atmosphere heavy metals and dioxins are all that is carcinogenic
# for the proper and complete oil combustion temperatures required min 650 c


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## angelo c (Aug 29, 2012)

Gologit said:


> The OP, Ft Churchill, never even mentioned the word OWB, just firewood piles.
> 
> He's also one of our more helpful members, never causes trouble for anybody, and generally posts things that are useful and instructive.
> 
> He's a long way from being a TROLL.



Logit..tell me that's your Stearman in your avatar ??


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## angelo c (Aug 29, 2012)

ft. churchill said:


> Several people have told me that they dispose of their used motor oil by pouring it ontop of there stacked, dry firewood. Supposed to increase the btu value of the firewood. Whaddya' think? :msp_confused:



Man I thought using waste oil as chain lube was the dumbest thing I ever heard. This one has moved to the top of the list. I wonder if the environmentalists are all over this yet. And so many people are fighting over "carbon credits" and " carbon footprints" ect.

So dumb only a politician could do it....


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## Whitespider (Aug 29, 2012)

Lots of things being posted in this thread based on personal bias and unsubstantiated opinion.

Yep, I pour used motor oil on firewood stacks… normally on stacks reserved for the shop burner, but some has ended up in the house before.

It does not make a mess; in a surprisingly short time the oil soaks into the wood and does not leave an oily residue on your hands (or whatever).
It does not pollute the ground; I’ve never yet found “oil stained” wood below the half-way point of a 5-foot stack. Cripes! Ya’ probably spill more oil in a year than would ever reach the ground through your firewood stacks.
It does not stink; within a few days the volatiles evaporate out and the smell is gone.
It does not bellow clouds of black smoke when burned; soaked into the wood it burns pretty darn well, and hot, without any noticeable smoke, soot, smell, or whatnot.
The wood on top of the stack(s) gets the most oil soaked, and sheds rain water like a duck’s back.

So there ya’ have it.


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## angelo c (Aug 29, 2012)

Whitespider said:


> Lots of things being posted in this thread based on personal bias and unsubstantiated opinion.
> 
> Yep, I pour used motor oil on firewood stacks… normally on stacks reserved for the shop burner, but some has ended up in the house before.
> 
> ...




Well that should get the party started....


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## Whitespider (Aug 29, 2012)

Oh, I do agree with one statement in this thread though...




stihl023/5 said:


> *I wouldn't burn that in a fire pit*



I wouldn't burn it in a fire pit either, that would be horribly wasteful... much better put to use as a heating source.


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## Chris-PA (Aug 29, 2012)

Whitespider said:


> I wouldn't burn it in a fire pit either, that would be horribly wasteful... much better put to use as a heating source.


Much better than recycling it?

People do a lot of stuff, but that doesn't make it a good idea.


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## Whitespider (Aug 29, 2012)

Using it as a heating source is _recycling_ it!


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## Hedgerow (Aug 29, 2012)

angelo c said:


> Well that should get the party started....



Yeeeee-Haw!!!!!


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## Blazin (Aug 29, 2012)

Psssh, You guys are looped..... tires, railroad ties, telephone poles, and pressure treated lumber is where it's at for BTU's


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## ShaneLogs (Aug 29, 2012)

I got a ReadyHeater in the garage that I burn used motor oil in. Just siphon all the dirt and debris out of it and mix 50% Diesel and 50% Clean used motor oil in it and put it in the heater. Keep the garage toasty fall/winter/and spring


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## Hedgerow (Aug 29, 2012)

Blazin said:


> Psssh, You guys are looped..... tires, railroad ties, telephone poles, and pressure treated lumber is where it's at for BTU's



You know this means I'm gonna have to put some oil on a piece of wood and burn it, just to see for myself and take notes... Might even have to chart the temps at which the VOC's are actually burnt vs just creating a noxious smoke...


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## Blazin (Aug 29, 2012)

Hedgerow said:


> You know this means I'm gonna have to put some oil on a piece of wood and burn it, just to see for myself and take notes... Might even have to chart the temps at which the VOC's are actually burnt vs just creating a noxious smoke...



Interesting!


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## ShaneLogs (Aug 29, 2012)

Hedgerow said:


> You know this means I'm gonna have to put some oil on a piece of wood and burn it, just to see for myself and take notes... Might even have to chart the temps at which the VOC's are actually burnt vs just creating a noxious smoke...



And don't forget pictures of the process!


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## Hedgerow (Aug 29, 2012)

Blazin said:


> Interesting!



I'm sure someone could just tell me... But I've never been one to listen... :msp_wink:


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## Hedgerow (Aug 29, 2012)

ShaneLogs said:


> And don't forget pictures of the process!



here's step 1...


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## Blazin (Aug 29, 2012)




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## Chris-PA (Aug 29, 2012)

Whitespider said:


> Using it as a heating source is _recycling_ it!


No, it's burning it. What is valuable in it and makes it worth recycling is the long chain carbon molecules. Those will eventually be broken down anyway, but burning it breaks them down immediately, releasing the carbon mostly as CO2 - and any metals which are unchanged.


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## Whitespider (Aug 29, 2012)

Hedgerow said:


> You know this means I'm gonna have to put some oil on a piece of wood and burn it, just to see for myself and take notes... Might even have to chart the temps at which the VOC's are actually burnt vs just creating a noxious smoke...



Just putting "_some oil on a piece of wood_" and burning it ain't gonna' be near the same thing.
I don't see that as the same as pouring/drizzling small quantities of oil over a stack of firewood... letting it filter down through, sit and soak for days, weeks or months between adding more (the next oil change on something)... with the overall treatment going several months, or a couple years depending... and then adding that wood to an already burning fire in a stove.

Changing, adding or removing variables, and then comparing and reporting results, means nothing... and is unfair to everyone, including yourself.
But hey, do whatever.


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## Whitespider (Aug 29, 2012)

WoodHeatWarrior said:


> *No, it's burning it. What is valuable in it and makes it worth recycling is the long chain carbon molecules. Those will eventually be broken down anyway, but burning it breaks them down immediately, releasing the carbon mostly as CO2 - and any metals which are unchanged.*



Really? Well here's a quote from the EPA web site.

"_*How is Used Oil Recycled?*
Once oil has been used, it can be collected, recycled, and used over and over again. An estimated 380 million gallons of used oil are recycled each year. Recycled used oil can sometimes be used again for the same job or can take on a completely different task. For example, used motor oil can be re-refined and sold at the store as motor oil or processed for furnace fuel oil._"

Well man, I'm "processing" my used oil for use as furnace fuel... and that is _recycling_... re-using something that would otherwise go to waste.


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## Hedgerow (Aug 29, 2012)

Whitespider said:


> Just putting "_some oil on a piece of wood_" and burning it ain't gonna' be near the same thing.
> I don't see that as the same as pouring/drizzling small quantities of oil over a stack of firewood... letting it filter down through, sit and soak for days, weeks or months between adding more (the next oil change on something)... with the overall treatment going several months, or a couple years depending... and then adding that wood to an already burning fire in a stove.
> 
> Changing, adding or removing variables, and then comparing and reporting results, means nothing... and is unfair to everyone, including yourself.
> But hey, do whatever.



I will....
And I always do...
You should know this by now...
:msp_sneaky:


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## ShaneLogs (Aug 29, 2012)

Hedgerow said:


> here's step 1...



Just making sure you don't forget :msp_sneaky:


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## BrokenToys (Aug 29, 2012)

An an added note:

*One gallon of used motor oil provides the same 2.5 quarts of lubricating oil as 42 gallons of crude oil.* 

I recycle my waste oil. I have "acquaintances" who pour their oil over their firewood too. Tried talking me into it and I declined. I won't do it personally and don't see the added value of some BTU's proven or otherwise.


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## Mac88 (Aug 29, 2012)

If I need more BTU's I just throw a little more hedge in the stove. :msp_rolleyes:


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## 7sleeper (Aug 29, 2012)

I'll admit that I used it to "paint" the outside of my woodshed. It soaks into the wood immediately and should give some protection. I know it isn't an environmently freindly act but I still did it. Actually I ran out pretty quick (1/2 gallon) because the wood really soaks it up so I used some el cheapo new oil (1/2 gallon) that I bought for the lawntractor to finish the job. 

7


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## angelo c (Aug 29, 2012)

Wow I wonder if the same people who make Marvel Mystery Oil produce this "waste oil" it seems to have the same list of "cures" ..or uses. I guess they just skip the carcinogens accumulated while the by products of the combustion process build up though.. Or is that just another old wives tale....


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## Whitespider (Aug 29, 2012)

BrokenToys said:


> *One gallon of used motor oil provides the same 2.5 quarts of lubricating oil as 42 gallons of crude oil.*



Well, actually that's intentionally misleading... The same 42 gallons of crude that produces 2.5 quarts of lubricating oil also produces, at the same time, dozens and dozens and dozens of quarts of other useful products and chemicals from refining, as well as a bit of gasoline. One gallon of used motor oil produces 2.5 quarts of new lubricating oil and 1.5 quarts of toxic waste.


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## Hedgerow (Aug 29, 2012)

Whitespider said:


> Well, actually that's intentionally misleading... The same 42 gallons of crude that produces 2.5 quarts of lubricating oil also produces, at the same time, dozens and dozens and dozens of quarts of other useful products and chemicals from refining, as well as a bit of gasoline. One gallon of used motor oil produces 2.5 quarts of new lubricating oil and 1.5 quarts of toxic waste.



And I believe that may be blended and burnt as a fuel... In Kansas...:msp_wink:


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## Whitespider (Aug 29, 2012)

angelo c said:


> *...this "waste oil" it seems to have the same list of "cures" ..or uses. I guess they just skip the carcinogens...*



For as long as I can remember used motor oil, or (so called) "waste oil" has been used as a wood preservative out-on-the-farm... wooden shed floors, hay wagon boards, bridge planks, manure spreader floors, even the top of my shooting bench is protected from the elements with waste oil. It's used for starting fires, oil burning heaters, dust control, lubricating gate hinges and drive chains open to the elements on stationary machinery. Cut with a bit of kerosine, it works pretty good as a penetrating oil for loosening rusted parts.
Carcinogens? Yeah, probably not a good idea to drink the stuff, or swim in it... but I ain't gonna' do that. Out here in-the-sticks we don't "waste" anything, we were _recycling_ decades before city dwelling tree-huggers ever thought of it... and now they have the gall to tell us we're not doing it correctly?? Well, I've got a couple words for them... but every time I use those words on AS I get sent to the "hole" for a few days.


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## Chris-PA (Aug 29, 2012)

Whitespider said:


> For as long as I can remember used motor oil, or (so called) "waste oil" has been used as a wood preservative out-on-the-farm... wooden shed floors, hay wagon boards, bridge planks, manure spreader floors, even the top of my shooting bench is protected from the elements with waste oil. It's used for starting fires, oil burning heaters, dust control, lubricating gate hinges and drive chains open to the elements on stationary machinery. Cut with a bit of kerosine, it works pretty good as a penetrating oil for loosening rusted parts.
> Carcinogens? Yeah, probably not a good idea to drink the stuff, or swim in it... but I ain't gonna' do that. Out here in-the-sticks we don't "waste" anything, we were _recycling_ decades before city dwelling tree-huggers ever thought of it... and now they have the gall to tell us we're not doing it correctly?? Well, I've got a couple words for them... but every time I use those words on AS I get sent to the "hole" for a few days.


LOL - you tell us all how it's done out in the country, cause you must be the only country boy here......


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## angelo c (Aug 29, 2012)

Whitespider said:


> For as long as I can remember used motor oil, or (so called) "waste oil" has been used as a wood preservative out-on-the-farm... wooden shed floors, hay wagon boards, bridge planks, manure spreader floors, even the top of my shooting bench is protected from the elements with waste oil. It's used for starting fires, oil burning heaters, dust control, lubricating gate hinges and drive chains open to the elements on stationary machinery. Cut with a bit of kerosine, it works pretty good as a penetrating oil for loosening rusted parts.
> Carcinogens? Yeah, probably not a good idea to drink the stuff, or swim in it... but I ain't gonna' do that. Out here in-the-sticks we don't "waste" anything, we were _recycling_ decades before city dwelling tree-huggers ever thought of it... and now they have the gall to tell us we're not doing it correctly?? Well, I've got a couple words for them... but every time I use those words on AS I get sent to the "hole" for a few days.



It wasn't that long ago when people thought asbestos had many uses too. Would you use all that oil if it was clean ? And you had to pay for it ? Oil and used oil are not the same thing. It it America still and you can do as you will.


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## Gologit (Aug 29, 2012)

Whitespider said:


> For as long as I can remember used motor oil, or (so called) "waste oil" has been used as a wood preservative out-on-the-farm... wooden shed floors, hay wagon boards, bridge planks, manure spreader floors, even the top of my shooting bench is protected from the elements with waste oil. It's used for starting fires, oil burning heaters, dust control, lubricating gate hinges and drive chains open to the elements on stationary machinery. Cut with a bit of kerosine, it works pretty good as a penetrating oil for loosening rusted parts.
> Carcinogens? Yeah, probably not a good idea to drink the stuff, or swim in it... but I ain't gonna' do that. Out here in-the-sticks we don't "waste" anything, we were _recycling_ decades before city dwelling tree-huggers ever thought of it... and now they have the gall to tell us we're not doing it correctly?? Well, I've got a couple words for them... but every time I use those words on AS I get sent to the "hole" for a few days.



What about ground water contamination?


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## blades (Aug 29, 2012)

We used to mix some in with some hog fat and beef tallow, made a great grease ( basically the same today just more refined). I remember in the 50's and 60's when they were building all them subdivisions where every third house was the same, the tanker trucks going around and wetting down the gravel roads with something akin to thinned out motor oil, didn't really smell like kerosene, more like thined out tar. made a mess of your shoes also, if you were fortunate enough to have them. ( shoes were for School and Church) in the winter had boots that pulled over the shoes dang things were for ever springing leaks. yep the good ol days.


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## mga (Aug 29, 2012)

*Does any one pour used motor oil on there stacked firewood? *

was that a joke?


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## AIM (Aug 29, 2012)

Originally Posted by BrokenToys 
One gallon of used motor oil provides the same 2.5 quarts of lubricating oil as 42 gallons of crude oil.


That is actually the most interesting thing I have read in this entire thread.
And I didn't think it was misleading at all.


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## Hedgerow (Aug 29, 2012)

Gologit said:


> What about ground water contamination?



What about blacktop roads??? I always wondered what that black liquid was they mixed in with the limestone to pave roads with... Then it all washes away and breaks up over time... :msp_wink:


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## JeffHK454 (Aug 29, 2012)

Why Shouldn't You Put Motor Oil in a Wood Stove? | eHow.com

Considered adding a waste oil drip to my first wood furnace and when I was doing research about how efficient and legal it was I came across a tech support engineer at Rezor who talked me out of it. 

In short he told me that oil that isn't burnt properly in high heat and pressure system truly isn't being burnt.. just broke down in to molecules and broadcast out your chimney. 

The link above pretty much puts what he told me into common terms any old dumb-ass Tool&Die maker like me can understand.


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## Hedgerow (Aug 29, 2012)

JeffHK454 said:


> Why Shouldn't You Put Motor Oil in a Wood Stove? | eHow.com
> 
> Considered adding a waste oil drip to my first wood furnace and when I was doing research about how efficient and legal it was I came across a tech support engineer at Rezor who talked me out of it.
> 
> ...



That's an interesting read... I wonder how hot the stuff has to get to "afterburn" Or incinerate completely???


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## lmbrman (Aug 29, 2012)

Gologit said:


> What about ground water contamination?



Speaking of groundwater contamination, I remember as a kid spending some time each summer on a lake in N WI. Several times each week the county drove by spraying down the gravel and dirt roads with waste oil,, you could smell it for miles. I am certainly not advocating this, but at this was only twenty years ago a common practice around here. When you think about all the people used to this attitude, burning it seems no worse. 

Recycling has come to mean burning fuel and time driving around to 'save the earth'. Not that we shouldn't recycle, but I cannot argue with spidey considering how much worse waste and pollution I see daily as 'accepted'. Legal is a whole different argument in right vs wrong

Bob, I don't want to fight about this- save it for E vs W :hmm3grin2orange:


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## lmbrman (Aug 29, 2012)

The heat got to me today- forgot to mention that the amish farmers around here like the waste oil too,, aside from burning and treating wood, I have seen hogs slathered in the stuff the night before they are sent market - cleans em up good I guess.

Never ate much pork since seeing that happen at several farms :msp_w00t:


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## forestryworks (Aug 29, 2012)

Gologit said:


> What about ground water contamination?





Hedgerow said:


> What about blacktop roads??? I always wondered what that black liquid was they mixed in with the limestone to pave roads with... Then it all washes away and breaks up over time... :msp_wink:





lmbrman said:


> the amish farmers around here like the waste oil too... I have seen hogs slathered in the stuff the night before they are sent market - cleans em up good I guess.
> 
> Never ate much pork since seeing that happen at several farms :msp_w00t:



These quotes, and the whole thread in general brings to mind a line from the True Grit movie:

"You must pay for everything in this world; one way and another."


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## stihly dan (Aug 29, 2012)

Whitespider said:


> Lots of things being posted in this thread based on personal bias and unsubstantiated opinion.
> 
> Yep, I pour used motor oil on firewood stacks… normally on stacks reserved for the shop burner, but some has ended up in the house before.
> 
> ...



Have you ever seen 1 drop of oil hit water or wet ground? In 5 min there is a large oil film on the water. When the water sheds of the oiled wood do you think its not carrying some oil with it to the ground and down.
Whitey, you seem to have alot of knowledge of a lot of things, although a little pig headed. But this time sir, I think the pig head is burried deep up the arse. synthetic wont soak in. just run of and down till it hits the water table. Just because people did things in the past not knowing the facts, does not mean now that we have new information its ok to keep doing it.


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## Gologit (Aug 29, 2012)

lmbrman said:


> Bob, I don't want to fight about this- save it for E vs W :hmm3grin2orange:



:msp_biggrin: Nope, no fighting over this. E vs W can always find more interesting things to argue over...bar length, bore cuts, hard wood, all the usual stuff.

On the subject of pouring waste oil on your wood pile, those that want to and think it's okay...will. 

I think I'll keep schlepping mine down to the recycle center.

I figure that there's enough crap going into our aquifer already without me adding anything to it.


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## Chris-PA (Aug 29, 2012)

forestryworks said:


> These quotes, and the whole thread in general brings to mind a line from the True Grit movie:
> 
> "You must pay for everything in this world; one way and another."


Unfortunately, we've been remiss in paying our tab for too long......


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## Gologit (Aug 29, 2012)

forestryworks said:


> These quotes, and the whole thread in general brings to mind a line from the True Grit movie:
> 
> "You must pay for everything in this world; one way and another."



Yup...exactly right. The only problem is, it won't be _us_ that does the paying. It will be our kids and our grandkids who have to stand the bill for our foolishness.

If we poison our water and foul our air we're not leaving them much of a world.

That doesn't seem quite fair.


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## Mac88 (Aug 29, 2012)

Gologit said:


> What about ground water contamination?



Anyone remember Times Beach?


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## blacklocst (Aug 29, 2012)

Mac88 said:


> Anyone remember Times Beach?



And don't forget Love Canal. Hooker chemical (I not making the name up) dumped dioxin on the site and some genius thought it would by O.K. to build a developement there.


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## MNGuns (Aug 29, 2012)

Must be close to winter, as the motor oil and firewood thread popped up....


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## Whitespider (Aug 29, 2012)

WoodHeatWarrior said:


> *LOL - you tell us all how it's done out in the country, cause you must be the only country boy here......*


Country boy?? Listen up Pennsylvania, I eat country boys for lunch… LOL.



stihly dan said:


> *Have you ever seen 1 drop of oil hit water or wet ground? In 5 min there is a large oil film on the water. When the water sheds of the oiled wood do you think its not carrying some oil with it to the ground and down. *


Well show me the proof it is… or makes a difference if it does. A little film floating on top of water can be seen draining from any stack of wood, oiled or not… because trees contain natural oils, some more than others. Some bleeding-heart opinion ain’t any kind of proof in my world. Cripes man… WE PUMP THE OIL OUT OF THE GROUND!!!


stihly dan said:


> *Whitey, you seem to have alot of knowledge of a lot of things, although a little pig headed. But this time sir, I think the pig head is burried deep up the arse.*


Pig headed ain’t the word I use… but read my profile, you ain’t come up with any sort of revelation in that statement.


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## angelo c (Aug 29, 2012)

Spidey, you keep talking like oil and USED MOTOR oil are the same thing...some of us see a clear ( pun intended ) difference between the two.

It is fun jabbin at 'cha though...


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## Justsaws (Aug 29, 2012)

ft. churchill said:


> Several people have told me that they dispose of their used motor oil by pouring it ontop of there stacked, dry firewood. Supposed to increase the btu value of the firewood. Whaddya' think? :msp_confused:



Yeah, those are stupid people. Try to avoid them.


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## nixon (Aug 29, 2012)

Justsaws said:


> Yeah, those are stupid people. Try to avoid them.



That says it all .


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## Whitespider (Aug 30, 2012)

angelo c said:


> *Spidey, you keep talking like oil and USED MOTOR oil are the same thing...some of us see a clear ( pun intended ) difference between the two.
> It is fun jabbin at 'cha though...*


Yeah, I know… fun.

I know the difference between the two, but these discussions, or arguments become so charged with emotion and misinformation it’s hard to remain… composed. Take for example the post by *Mac88*, “_Anyone remember Times Beach?_” Well, Times Beach doesn’t even belong in this thread… the dioxin contamination of Times Beach did not come from used motor oil proper, rather the waste oil sprayed on the roads for dust control had been itself contaminated. The waste hauler was mixing toxic waste from a chemical company with the used oil… that toxic waste contained dioxin levels believed to be as much as 2000 times higher than the levels found in Agent Orange. Times Beach was an industrial toxic waste issue, not a used (waste) oil issue. What the hell does that have to do with dumping a little used motor oil on a wood pile??

Now, I’m fully aware that burning used oil can create dioxins, depending on the temperature of combustion and the contents of the used oil (but still thousands of times less than the levels of Times Beach). Basically, if the combustion is belching black smoke, the chances are high for dioxin creation. But I’ve already said I don’t get black smoke from firewood that’s had used oil poured over it and allowed to sit for weeks or months… and if you’re burning in a stove with secondary combustion?? I can assure you the barrel where I burn my household trash pumps out more dioxins in one year than all the used oil I ever burned. Heck, a campfire creates dioxins…

OK, so there’s my Times Beach/dioxin argument. But the thing is, if I tried to mount an argument for every ill-conceived notion, or totally unrelated comment that gets brought into threads like this I’d be typing until next year. I get to the point where I just toss my arms up in the air, and my comments tend to look like they’ve gone-off-the-reservation… when in fact it’s the prior off-the-reservation comments that put me there.


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## brokenbudget (Aug 30, 2012)

what about alll the calcium townships pour on the gravel roads in the summer to keep the dust down?
all that urea, calcium, salt in the winter?
pesticides on the front lawn to keep the weeds down because the homeowner is too lazy to pick them out.
is motor oil that much worse?


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## AIM (Aug 30, 2012)

Whitespider said:


> OK, so there’s my Times Beach/dioxin argument. But the thing is, if I tried to mount an argument for every ill-conceived notion, or totally unrelated comment that gets brought into threads like this I’d be typing until next year. I get to the point where I just toss my arms up in the air, and my comments tend to look like they’ve gone-off-the-reservation… when in fact it’s the prior off-the-reservation comments that put me there.



This has NOTHING to do with this debate but rather some advice. I say this with no malice whatsoever. Your posts do tend to come across like we should all stand up and say "Spidey has spoken so it must be so". Ease up stud. 
And just because Gandaddy and pappy have been doing this or that for 80 years doesn't mean it's a proper or good thing. What they have been doing for 80 years may not hurt a hell of a lot but that doesn't mean it's the best way.


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## Whitespider (Aug 30, 2012)

AIM said:


> *Your posts do tend to come across like we should all stand up and say "Spidey has spoken so it must be so". Ease up stud.*



Hmmmmmmmm.... That's a perception issue that falls on the reader. I've said dozens of times here on AS that I don't expect anyone to take what I say, or what anyone says as "fact" until they do their own (non-Google search) investigation and conformation. Make your own conclusions... but, you do yourself no favor when you make an *un*informed, or *ill*-informed conclusion. And, *un*informed, or *ill*-informed arguments are detrimental to an adult discussion.


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## redheadwoodshed (Aug 30, 2012)

I use used engine oil for lots of stuff.Waste not want not.Makes a good wood treatment, burns hot with just a little air added to it and kills mange on all those dogs that people throw out in front of my house.I have a long steel trough that I put my used oil in.I add to that home made charcoal and soak peeled pine post in it.Take them out in about a month let them drip dry over the trough and presto, a lifetime post.Don't like it, don't do it.Go buy some.



And I would still like to know where you can still buy strike anywhere matches.


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## Mac88 (Aug 30, 2012)

Whitespider said:


> my comments tend to look like they’ve gone-off-the-reservation… when in fact it’s the prior off-the-reservation comments that put me there.



Spidey, come in out of the sun and have a couple beers. You're starting to look like you're overheated. :msp_biggrin:


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## dingeryote (Aug 30, 2012)

redheadwoodshed said:


> I use used engine oil for lots of stuff.Waste not want not.Makes a good wood treatment, burns hot with just a little air added to it and kills mange on all those dogs that people throw out in front of my house.I have a long steel trough that I put my used oil in.I add to that home made charcoal and soak peeled pine post in it.Take them out in about a month let them drip dry over the trough and presto, a lifetime post.Don't like it, don't do it.Go buy some.
> 
> 
> 
> And I would still like to know where you can still buy strike anywhere matches.



Landers Hardware-Bangor
Kellog Hardware-Hartford

And to save ya the drive.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_s...where+matches&sprefix=Strike+anywhere,aps,314

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## Whitespider (Aug 30, 2012)

Mac88 said:


> Spidey, come in out of the sun and have a couple beers. You're starting to look like you're overheated. :msp_biggrin:



Yeah, no kiddin'!
I just got back to the office from spending most of the day on a concrete parking lot installing two-way radios in Semi Tractors... it's 101[sup]o[/sup] and cloudless out there today. Thank the good maker he provided me with a stiff breeze or might have died.

Without a doubt, ice-cold Budweiser is gonna' taste mighty fine... in about 1.5 hours.


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## Mac88 (Aug 30, 2012)

Whitespider said:


> Yeah, no kiddin'!
> I just got back to the office from spending most of the day on a concrete parking lot installing two-way radios in Semi Tractors... it's 101[sup]o[/sup] and cloudless out there today. Thank the good maker he provided me with a stiff breeze or might have died.
> 
> Without a doubt, ice-cold Budweiser is gonna' taste mighty fine... in about 1.5 hours.



Yea, that would be a hot job in this weather. I'm assuming they're local haul, and probably not equipped with aux power/ac for when the engine's not running. Relief is on the horizon.


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## Whitespider (Aug 30, 2012)

About as local as it gets... farming operation grain trucks.


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## Jimmy Hedge (Aug 30, 2012)

ft. churchill said:


> Several people have told me that they dispose of their used motor oil by pouring it ontop of there stacked, dry firewood. Supposed to increase the btu value of the firewood. Whaddya' think? :msp_confused:



It cant be good but if you let it drip in there. The local zip lube burns it in a built furnace. That's more cantrolled of a burn. IMO.

There is the strike it anywhere match. Cant see why they would have to do away with it.


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## Mac88 (Aug 30, 2012)

Whitespider said:


> About as local as it gets... farming operation grain trucks.



Gotcha. Day cabs. Those fellas get to sleep in their own beds at night. No need for aux power/ac.


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## redheadwoodshed (Aug 30, 2012)

dingeryote said:


> Landers Hardware-Bangor
> Kellog Hardware-Hartford
> 
> And to save ya the drive.
> ...



Thanks, I figured they was outlawed everywhere.I love how they do that stuff.You run out of something, go to the store to resupply and find out then that they "quit making" whatever it is you needed, because someone figured out a way to make meth out of it.They did the same with some rat poisons and cold medicines.Just 'quit making it'.And it always seems to be the stuff that works the best.


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## woodguy105 (Aug 30, 2012)

redheadwoodshed said:


> And I would still like to know where you can still buy strike anywhere matches.



I buy em up the street at Rucki's in Pomfret Ct..... Classic little store that only takes cash, you can buy your beer, bread, milk, cast iron cook ware, ammo, shot guns, nuts and bolts etc.


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## Whitespider (Aug 31, 2012)

I wish we still had stores like that 'round here.
The last one I knew of anywhere was the one my grandparents owned in a tiny Iowa river town, called "The Pioneer Store"... they sold every thing from eggs and fresh cut meat to shoes and saddles to hardware and cast iron cookware to guns and ammo to........
They were vary religious though, the only two things you couldn't buy were tobacco and alcoholic beverages.

I buy my "strike anywhere" matches at an "old style" hardware store in a small town just south of me. I love that store, wooden floor and selves, and the door strikes a cow bell when ya' walk in... the shelves are so packed that only they know where all the stuff is, I'd bet they still have a spittoon for sale in there.


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## jrider (Aug 31, 2012)

Whitespider said:


> Country boy?? Listen up Pennsylvania, I eat country boys for lunch… LOL.
> 
> 
> Well show me the proof it is… or makes a difference if it does. A little film floating on top of water can be seen draining from any stack of wood, oiled or not… because trees contain natural oils, some more than others. Some bleeding-heart opinion ain’t any kind of proof in my world. Cripes man… WE PUMP THE OIL OUT OF THE GROUND!!!
> ...



Yes we do pump oil out of the ground. And poop comes out of our arse, but I certainly am in no hurry to rub it on my skin.


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## Mad Professor (Sep 1, 2012)

After poisoning my well and ground water.

My lawyer will beat up Your lawyer.

You will loose all you own.

Worth it?


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## brewmonster (Sep 1, 2012)

According to the Smithsonian's exhibit "Ocean Planet," 363 *million* gallons of used motor oil enter the oceans each year. That's ten times the amount from big tanker spills. 

One quart of motor oil can pollute 250,000 gallons of water, and one gallon of gasoline can pollute 750,000 gallons of water.

Think about it, people. Do you drink water? (And remember, beer is more than 90% water too.) Do you eat fish? Would you like for your children to be able to drink water and eat fish?

Burning it in the relatively low heat of a wood stove isn't so great either. Lots more PM, metals, sulfur, etc., etc. than fuel oil.

I know a lot of people like to bash the EPA here, but I'm old enough to remember life before the Clean Air and Clean Water Acts (both implemented by a Republican president). The Delaware River was a dead sewer and the air over Philadelphia was brown on muggy summer days. I don't want to return to those days and I can't understand why anyone would.

I really can't understand why anyone would still be practicing this kind of pollution. The good old days when you would spray oil to control the dust, or dump it in a nearby creek, as was the practice at a farm where I used to work, weren't good. Those habits were filthy and indefensible, the result of ignorance and a false notion of thrift. The only proper place to pour your used motor oil is into a can that you take to a recycling center.


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## avason (Sep 1, 2012)

My father in-law used to stain his deck with drain oil.


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## Whitespider (Sep 1, 2012)

brewmonster said:


> According to the Smithsonian's exhibit "Ocean Planet," 363 *million* gallons of used motor oil enter the oceans each year. That's ten times the amount from big tanker spills.



Those kind of quotes, or statements always get me going... because that's only partially true.
The actual quote from the exhibit is...
"*...363 million gallons that come from industrial waste and automobiles.*"
Anybody wanna' guess how much comes from North America vs. other parts of the world?
Anybody wanna' guess what the ratio of industrial waste to used automobile oil is?
Anybody wanna' guess how much of that used automobile oil, from North America, comes from guys like me pouring it on a wood pile or soaking fence posts?

How is possible we have any usable water left on the planet? After all, the same exhibit says...
"*More than 60 million gallons of oil enter the oceans every year, but it’s not reported on the news. That’s because this oil seeps from oil-bearing rock layers into the ocean as part of a natural process. When tankers running aground spill oil, that’s news, and currently these accidents deposit about 37 million gallons of oil into the ocean every year.*"

Let's see now, *60 million gallons* of oil enters the oceans by natural earth process every year... and that's been going on for how many *MILLIONS OF YEARS?* Yep, we all died 10,000 years ago from water pollution.

Listen, I'm not trying to be a smart-azz (well, maybe I am)... but so often the numbers that get thrown around about mankind's impact on the earth just don't add up. And then you take something like the Smithsonian, that takes a number from one (so-called) expert, and then another number from another (so-called) expert, and put both in the same paragraph... and they don't add up.

No I don't want to see used motor oil dumped in our rivers and streams, anymore than I want to see industrial waste dumped in them. But stop trying to equate that to some country boy pouring a little oil on a wood pile, soaking a fence post, weather-proofing a wagon box, or starting a brush pile on fire... that ain't what you need to be worrying about; changing that changes nothing.


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## turnkey4099 (Sep 1, 2012)

redheadwoodshed said:


> I use used engine oil for lots of stuff.Waste not want not.Makes a good wood treatment, burns hot with just a little air added to it and kills mange on all those dogs that people throw out in front of my house.I have a long steel trough that I put my used oil in.I add to that home made charcoal and soak peeled pine post in it.Take them out in about a month let them drip dry over the trough and presto, a lifetime post.Don't like it, don't do it.Go buy some.
> 
> 
> 
> And I would still like to know where you can still buy strike anywhere matches.



Same place I do - the grocery store, I just bought a pack of 3 boxes last year. Local chain is Rosauer's

Harry K


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## stihly dan (Sep 1, 2012)

Whitespider said:


> Those kind of quotes, or statements always get me going... because that's only partially true.
> The actual quote from the exhibit is...
> "*...363 million gallons that come from industrial waste and automobiles.*"
> Anybody wanna' guess how much comes from North America vs. other parts of the world?
> ...



Unless the 100 billion people on the planet all do it. What makes certain people special. before you thro back the facts of how many people are actually on the planet. I don't know, butt its a crap load.


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## Whitespider (Sep 1, 2012)

Oooohhhh..... whatever....
You totally missed the point!


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## Dogsout (Sep 1, 2012)

stihly dan said:


> Unless the 100 billion people on the planet all do it. What makes certain people special. before you thro back the facts of how many people are actually on the planet. I don't know, butt its a crap load.



Is a 'Crap Load" bigger or smaller then a "Boat Load"?


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## aokpops (Sep 1, 2012)

I never did this some people used it for bar oil . Put paper on the brush pile then dump it on the paper makes a good clean an hot fire not much smoke . Passing on dumping it on my firewood


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## brewmonster (Sep 1, 2012)

OK, Spidey, make those numbers dance any way you can to justify whatever you want to do. We humans are notoriously rational beings. That is, we can find a rationalization for anything that we've already decided we're going to do, no matter what the cost to ourselves or others. 

If it's OK for you, one little country boy, then why isn't it OK for 7,000,000,000 other country boys too? You times seven billion is a lot of pollution and I'm not OK with any of it. My well provides me with pure delicious water and I'm oh so grateful that it hasn't been ruined by thoughtless yahoos with filthy, lazy habits. Our seemingly inconsequential daily practices, taken in the aggregate, have a big impact on the world we all have to live in.

And what is the problem with recycling oil anyway? Collecting it and bringing it to a recycling center (for free, where I live) seems at least as easy as anything else.


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## Whitespider (Sep 2, 2012)

See, that’s what I mean about throwing numbers around, your argument is all a big “what if?” I tend to be more of a realist. Although you're gonna’ say I’m rationalizing… but it’s OK for you to use the 7 billion number? Don't forget, you're the one that's throwing out numbers. At least my numbers are *RATIONAL!*
7,000,000,000 other country boys? First of all, nearly two-thirds (60%) of those 7 billion live in urban and suburban areas of Asia… most don’t personally own anything that generates used oil. Of the remaining 2.8 billion, one third lives in third-world countries and don’t have a clue what oil even is. That only leaves about 1.8 billion people to account for, and only 1 in 8 are farmers, but to be fair not all “country boys” are farmers… let’s say 10% shall we… or, only 1.8 billion “country boys”. But really now, that 1.8 mbillion includes wives, kids, and elderly family members living with them… let’s say average household size is 4 (I bet it’s more like 5)… That leaves less than 5 hundred million “country boys” world wide. I’m pretty sure that many of those 5 hundred million don’t change their own oil; they pay someone to do it.

Hmmmm… the number of “country boys” with used oil at their disposal is pretty darn small… no where near 7 BILLION!


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## doobie57z (Sep 2, 2012)

ah, so air pollution from burning wood is ok then. Where is the line? What about all the people that don't burn wood? 699 billion people breathing wood smoke so one fella in new jersey can save $100 on his heating bill? judge not, lest ye be judged...just sayin'


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## Whitespider (Sep 2, 2012)

brewmonster said:


> *And what is the problem with recycling oil anyway? Collecting it and bringing it to a recycling center (for free, where I live) seems at least as easy as anything else.*



I AM RECYCLING IT!
I'm using it to generate heat, weather-proof structural wood, and whatnot. If I haul it to the recycling center (so they can then _sell_ it back to me, I would then need to purchase, or otherwise acquire, something else to replace it... some other chemical that's probably just as damaging or toxic in its own way. In the end, haulin' it to a recycling center (rather than recycling it myself), cost me dollars... lots of dollars.

Climb down off your high-horse man.


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## brewmonster (Sep 2, 2012)

Whitespider said:


> See, that’s what I mean about throwing numbers around, your argument is all a big “what if?” I tend to be more of a realist. Although you're gonna’ say I’m rationalizing… but it’s OK for you to use the 7 billion number? Don't forget, you're the one that's throwing out numbers. At least my numbers are *RATIONAL!*
> 7,000,000,000 other country boys? First of all, nearly two-thirds (60%) of those 7 billion live in urban and suburban areas of Asia… most don’t personally own anything that generates used oil. Of the remaining 2.8 billion, one third lives in third-world countries and don’t have a clue what oil even is. That only leaves about 1.8 billion people to account for, and only 1 in 8 are farmers, but to be fair not all “country boys” are farmers… let’s say 10% shall we… or, only 1.8 billion “country boys”. But really now, that 1.8 mbillion includes wives, kids, and elderly family members living with them… let’s say average household size is 4 (I bet it’s more like 5)… That leaves less than 5 hundred million “country boys” world wide. I’m pretty sure that many of those 5 hundred million don’t change their own oil; they pay someone to do it.
> 
> Hmmmm… the number of “country boys” with used oil at their disposal is pretty darn small… no where near 7 BILLION!



I'm impressed! I thought your earlier Number Dances were clever but this one is amazing! You could be a professional choreographer! Just for fun let's say that all your made-up-out-of-thin-air arithmetic is right: half a billion yahoos dumping oil on the ground and into the water is still not OK with me. That 363 million gallons of oil came from _somewhere_.

_In the end, haulin' it to a recycling center (rather than recycling it myself), cost me dollars... lots of dollars.
_
And_ in the end,_ this is what it's really all about. Individuals tend to make choices that shift costs away from themselves and onto others. Why do you think the Delaware was a dead sewer forty years ago? Because industries and individuals didn't want to bear the _expense_ of cleaning up their messes, they just ran it all into the river. That made for a great bottom line, because it shifted that expense onto society at large, namely all us taxpayers.

_ah, so air pollution from burning wood is ok then. Where is the line?_ 

Good point, doobie57z. We do need to draw those lines and that is where an oft-maligned entity, namely government, comes into play. Government exists to perform functions that we as individuals cannot perform or would choose not to. The EPA-certified stove I have now puts out a fraction of the pollution my old smoke dragons did. Thanks, EPA!


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## dingeryote (Sep 2, 2012)

Plain old Oil is one thing, used crank case oil is another.

Oil as it comes outta the ground isn't much of a problem. Add the metallic solids, and other good stuff, that keeps motors from grinding themselves to death, and then add in the concentrated toxic combustion byproducts like heavy metals and various carcinogenic compounds, and it's a completely different matter.

As a "Country Boy" life can be damn dangerous, what with all the viscious mechanical gizmos, ornery critters, and various chemicals used on crops. Most of us "Hayseeds" learn real quick to minimize unnecessary risks to ourselves, family and neighbors, as the necessary ones are bad enough. Nobody in thier right mind goes to spraying Guithion, or subsoiling with anhydrous without a respirator on, or even gets near a jug of Gromoxeone while wearing shorts, and the stuff is handled like it's gonna lash out and bite. 

Funny thing is, that used motor oil has the same potential as some of the more noxious stuff used around a farm, and is many times more persistent in the ground.
It just dosn't have warning labels all over it, and the effects might not be noticed as quick.

Stop and think about it a minuite. Ya wouldn't set up a lead melting pot, and set to casting sinkers and bullets in the living room right?
Lead oxide vapors in an enclosed space and all, and the issue of contaminating the whole area? Only a complete moron would do such a thing if they knew right?


Just some light reading for the guys that are trying to remember all the 27 letter compounds and toxic gorp in waste crank case oil.
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/toxprofiles/tp102-c2.pdf

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## stihly dan (Sep 2, 2012)

Good point, doobie57z. We do need to draw those lines and that is where an oft-maligned entity, namely government, comes into play. Government exists to perform functions that we as individuals cannot perform or would choose not to. The EPA-certified stove I have now puts out a fraction of the pollution my old smoke dragons did. Thanks, EPa.

My kumma only puts out .45 gr/hr. I will put that up against oil any day. Or any wood stove.


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## Incomplete (Sep 2, 2012)

redheadwoodshed said:


> And I would still like to know where you can still buy strike anywhere matches.



Bought some at Ace: absolute carp. Not worth the box they were packed in.


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## Walt41 (Sep 2, 2012)

This is exactly the type of thread that is going to be taken out of context by some environmental group looking to ban wood burning in their area.


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## darkbyrd (Sep 2, 2012)

Walt41 said:


> This is exactly the type of thread that is going to be taken out of context by some environmental group looking to ban wood burning in their area.



Then us wood burners should strive to be a good example to others, and follow best practices, so they don't have a reason to ban wood burning.

My oil goes to the recycling center. My dad throws it on burn piles. I guess he figures it won't make it to the well pump while he still has to drink from it.


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## ray benson (Sep 2, 2012)

Walt41 said:


> This is exactly the type of thread that is going to be taken out of context by some environmental group looking to ban wood burning in their area.



Good point Walt.

I used to put the used motor oil in milk jugs and into the garbage which went to the landfill - but they do not want it. So when I fill a 5 gallon bucket it goes to an auto parts store in town to recycle. It's not a big deal. Several friends have acreage adjoining farms. They take the used oil in to town when they are making a trip, so as to combine trips. They will not use weed , vegetation killers, insecticides or used motor oil on the ground as they have wells. And if I was cutting wood at their house I wouldn't use used motor oil or bar and chain oil, it would be canola oil.


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## Incomplete (Sep 2, 2012)

"What we have here&hellip;" is a classic conflict of Silent Spring vs. Reality, and a perfect example of an honest question highjacked by sensation and emotion. 

The EPA is Satan's child, a good intention that has led American (and the First World) Commerce into hellish shackles (because I'm not aware of any Chinese EPA, or Russian EPA, or South American EPA, or Indonesian/Asian EPA, or an African EPA). Thank you #### Nixon (RINO) for being midwife to this monstrosity.

Citations where made of fouled rivers and water ways: we did not need a FEDERAL Bureaucracy to fix that problem; local government should have AND WOULD HAVE resolved this issue.

Disparaging comments where made about "what Grandad and Daddy used to do": what if they were right? We have replaced too much Common Sense with Intelligencia. 

As to the water table being contaminated by pouring used oil on the ground: if this were true, there would be no more asphalt roads, there would be no more tar and chip resurfacing (they just did this across three counties here in Illinoisistan.) But besides that, unless you live in a swamp or a bog (and then you're not drinking the water anyway), your water is coming from HUNDREDS of feet down. Have you ever watched a well drilled and seen the various layers of clay, sand, and gravel and bedrock that come up? God has made a perfect environment, and while we can and do some times foul our own nest, it's never permanent, because the earth is not fragile like us and our opinions: it's constant, and resilient. Where is the persistent oil damage in the gulf? Nature ate it: it lives on carbon and CO2. And before you say "But, but, Chernobyl and Bikini Atoll!" read these and be humbled:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/2413279...al-flourishing-bikini-atoll-atomic-test-site/ (ignore the closing statement )

http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/04/ff_chernobyl/all/

If a man think's he's something, he needs to be stripped naked and thrown into the woods. Let's see what nature thinks of him. 

The question was asked, WhiteSpider gave his answer based on EXPERIANCE not hype, sensation, or hyperbole, and the OP and he were attacked for it. I'm standing with experiance (not saying I'm going to use perfectly good weed killer on fire wood ), but I'll take experiance over emotion every day of the week and twice on Sunday.


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## Mad Professor (Sep 2, 2012)

When the #### runs


i'll sue you and own your home, polliutter


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## Gologit (Sep 2, 2012)

Mad Professor said:


> When the #### runs
> 
> 
> i'll sue you and own your home, polliutter



Fine, but learn to spell first, okay? *Polliutter*? :monkey:


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## Incomplete (Sep 2, 2012)

Mad Professor said:


> When the #### runs
> 
> 
> i'll sue you and own your home, polliutter



I don't own. I rent.


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## brewmonster (Sep 2, 2012)

Incomplete said:


> I don't own. I rent.



I think you mean _rant._

If hydrogen bombs, undersea oil well blowouts, and nuclear meltdowns are OK with you, I can see why you have no problem with a bit of old oil poured on firewood.


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## darkbyrd (Sep 2, 2012)

Incomplete said:


> I'm standing with experiance (not saying I'm going to use perfectly good weed killer on fire wood ), but I'll take experiance over emotion every day of the week and twice on Sunday.



I'd like you to have the experience of having your water tested. I hope you avoid the experience of a cancer cluster.


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## Incomplete (Sep 2, 2012)

darkbyrd said:


> I'd like you to have the experience of having your water tested. I hope you avoid the experience of a cancer cluster.



Hyperbole, straw man. Do a little research and you'll find that Erin Brockovich (sp) was a fraud: too narrow of a study.

Don't get me wrong, or confuse my use of facetiousness as callousness, I am an advocate of Good Stewardship, But Good Stewardship starts with commonsense, experience, independent logical thinking, and the ability to adapt with the emergence of proven facts. Group Think Feel Good Sensationalism profits no one, and the planet even less. We cut our noses, to spite our faces.


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## Gologit (Sep 2, 2012)

Incomplete said:


> Hyperbole, straw man. Do a little research and you'll find that Erin Brockovich (sp) was a fraud: too narrow of a study.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, or confuse my use of facetiousness as callousness, I am an advocate of Good Stewardship, But Good Stewardship starts with commonsense, experience, independent logical thinking, and the ability to adapt with the emergence of proven facts. Group Think Feel Good Sensationalism profits no one, and the planet even less. We cut our noses, to spite our faces.



But would you pour used motor oil on your firewood pile?


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## darkbyrd (Sep 2, 2012)

Incomplete said:


> Hyperbole, straw man. Do a little research and you'll find that Erin Brockovich (sp) was a fraud: too narrow of a study.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, or confuse my use of facetiousness as callousness, I am an advocate of Good Stewardship, But Good Stewardship starts with commonsense, experience, independent logical thinking, and the ability to adapt with the emergence of proven facts. Group Think Feel Good Sensationalism profits no one, and the planet even less. We cut our noses, to spite our faces.



Common sense tells me there is some nasty crap in used motor oil. It goes in clear and comes out black. Common sense tells me not to drink motor oil. Experience shows me that water flows downhill, and into the ground. Experience shows me that oil does the same. God's gift of reason allows me to figure out that if I put oil where water goes, I'll have oil in my water. And that is my independent logical thinking.


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## doobie57z (Sep 2, 2012)

Gologit said:


> But would you pour used motor oil on your firewood pile?



I poured mine on the punky wood, household garbage and dead mice in glue traps I had in the burning barrel, and lit it up yesterday evening. It was all gone this morning. I have a 16 foot deep shallow well here, but I don't drink from it. Its basically lake water, and fish and fowl and kids pee in that...View attachment 251106


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## Incomplete (Sep 2, 2012)

Gologit said:


> But would you pour used motor oil on your firewood pile?



Well, in light of what Spidey has put forward, I don't think that I would be afraid to try it. If I had some old wood . I'm just hoping that what I have will dry before it snaps. 

My biggest concern was Mess and flue build up. But Spidey, from his asserted experience, says there's no mess and burn off is no different than without Added Carbon Treatment 

I don't see any practical reason to, except to get rid of your used oil. Which if you produce a lot, then waste not want not. Any added BTUs, IMAO, would be negligible and, unless measured and compared precisely, psychological. I don't generate enough to need a way to dispose of it. 

As an anecdote, when I was a kid in Central Valley Cali Farm Country, my dad had us pour the oil out behind the shop; it suffocated everything it was poured on directly, but the weeds around the patch where GREEN and HUGE. And the well water was the best I've ever had in my life . I look forward to the day I get to go back and see if the memory holds true.


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## Fuzly (Sep 2, 2012)

Dogsout said:


> Is a 'Crap Load" bigger or smaller then a "Boat Load"?



Ooh, that would be fun. Like the face cord vs. cord vs. rick arguments :hmm3grin2orange:

I did see used motor oil being used in a way I had not heard of before recently and learned it came from my Grandpa. My uncles horses were getting harassed by the flies and he was out of bug dope. Said "this is an old horse logger trick I learned from your Grandpa". Rubbed the horses down with some used oil cut with a little kerosene, the flies left them alone almost immediately.

Got a good conversation going about whether it was safe for the horses, effective, bad for the water, etc.

Oh, and I recycle most of mine, but do save a little for bonfires and coating the inside of the OWB at the end of the season. I know the book says to go buy new oil, but I had 5 quarts of freshly drained Buick crankcase drippins and couldn't resist.


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## ft. churchill (Sep 2, 2012)

opcorn:



My goodness what a fire storm.
Any of you all's is welcome over to my house. We've just started harvesting from our all organic, never had any kind of spray on it, garden. Picked a 25 pound yellow flesh watermelon today. Tasty.:msp_biggrin:


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## darkbyrd (Sep 2, 2012)

The earthworms near an oil spill look grey.


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## Mac88 (Sep 2, 2012)

ft. churchill said:


> opcorn:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The flames might do a number on your garden.


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## CTYank (Sep 3, 2012)

Anybody remember Times Beach MO, and what happened after their waste-oil sprayer mixed in some waste from an agent-orange factory? Superfund site.
If you're gonna spread crap, be absolutely sure of source & content.
And ... some posters here seem pretty diffident about longevity of poo in aquifers.


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## Whitespider (Sep 3, 2012)

brewmonster said:


> *Government exists to perform functions that we as individuals cannot perform or would choose not to.*



Unbelievable... totally unbelievable!
That's not why government exists... but it's foolish thinking like yours that allows it so much power over our lives.


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## avason (Sep 3, 2012)

doobie57z said:


> I poured mine on the punky wood, household garbage and dead mice in glue traps I had in the burning barrel,View attachment 251106



My emotions in order when I read this...sorry for showing my feelings guys.
 :msp_scared: otstir:


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## doobie57z (Sep 3, 2012)

avason said:


> My emotions in order when I read this...sorry for showing my feelings guys.
> :msp_scared: otstir:



My girlfriends kid really likes those emoticon things.She's a 13 year old girl...


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## Chris-PA (Sep 3, 2012)

doobie57z said:


> I poured mine on the punky wood, household garbage and dead mice in glue traps I had in the burning barrel, and lit it up yesterday evening. It was all gone this morning. I have a 16 foot deep shallow well here, but I don't drink from it. Its basically lake water, and fish and fowl and kids pee in that...View attachment 251106


Where is this place "Gone" that you write of? Is it near "Away"

Matter doesn't go away. Your fire wasn't hot enough to break down all the toxins, likely created some others, and the metals were unchanged. Some went into the air and drifted over your and other's property. Now life processes will concentrate that stuff, and eventually it will enter the food chain. And some will get into the water supply. 

We figured this stuff out long ago, but apprently it's still a mystery to some.


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## doobie57z (Sep 3, 2012)

WoodHeatWarrior said:


> Where is this place "Gone" that you write of? Is it near "Away"
> 
> Matter doesn't go away. Your fire wasn't hot enough to break down all the toxins, likely created some others, and the metals were unchanged. Some went into the air and drifted over your and other's property. Now life processes will concentrate that stuff, and eventually it will enter the food chain. And some will get into the water supply.
> 
> We figured this stuff out long ago, but apprently it's still a mystery to some.



So what's your point? Ban all burning? How much exhaust is acceptable, just as much as you produce? There has been jet skis,pontoons, inboards and outboards on the lake nonstop all weekend. My guess is there is a ####load more "toxins" in the water than there was Thursday. I would favor banning tourism, and all joyriding traffic on the water. That ain't gonna happen though...


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## angelo c (Sep 3, 2012)

doobie57z said:


> My girlfriends kid really likes those emoticon things.She's a 13 year old girl...



Lemme know how that GP( general population) thing works out for you in prison....unless 13 is the age of consent in Wisconsin.. Then...


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## doobie57z (Sep 3, 2012)

angelo c said:


> Lemme know how that GP( general population) thing works out for you in prison....unless 13 is the age of consent in Wisconsin.. Then...



WTF?? are you talking about?


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## Fred Wright (Sep 3, 2012)

I wouldn't dump the stuff on perfectly good firewood. 

When we were kids, used oil was dumped on the ground or down storm drains. Hell, the fed guv'mint sprayed it on dirt roads on military bases to keep the dust down. Nobody gave it much thought at the time.

The old boy next door was what we'd probably call a survivalist today. He used old motor oil mixed with sulphur to cure mange on his hunting dogs. He'd coat the underside of his mower deck with the stuff every fall, too. Kept it from rusting.

He used the back of his property as a dump as well.


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## Chris-PA (Sep 3, 2012)

doobie57z said:


> So what's your point? Ban all burning? How much exhaust is acceptable, just as much as you produce? There has been jet skis,pontoons, inboards and outboards on the lake nonstop all weekend. My guess is there is a ####load more "toxins" in the water than there was Thursday. I would favor banning tourism, and all joyriding traffic on the water. That ain't gonna happen though...


I don't know where you get ban all burning. It's pretty simple really - if it doesn't burn normally in nature try not to burn it. Burning wood releases carbon that was taken out of the environment in the last couple of decades, and has little net effect. Most of it will rot and release that carbon anyway. The compounds it releases have always been in our environment and life evolved with that stuff around. Burning fossil fuels and products derived from fossil fuel releases carbon that has not been in the environment for millions of years, and toxins that do not normally occur and that our bodies cannot deal with.

As for yahoos wasting fuel for fun, that will stop when fuel becomes more expensive than they can afford, which will be sooner than most expect. Both because the fuel is getting more expensive and because there will be no economic recovery at these fuel prices and higher.


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## angelo c (Sep 3, 2012)

doobie57z said:


> WTF?? are you talking about?



In most states , if you have a 13 year old girlfriend and you happen to be over the age of..say..17... You generally spend some time in the state hotel system, whereby the general population doesn't think highly of the " kid touchers" . 

Key words : prison, Jerry Sandusky, perv, 

HTH.


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## doobie57z (Sep 3, 2012)

That's my girlfriends daughter you ####ing ********** !!! #### off!!!!!!


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## Hedgerow (Sep 3, 2012)

...opcorn:


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## angelo c (Sep 3, 2012)

doobie57z said:


> That's my girlfriends daughter you ####ing ********** !!! #### off!!!!!!



I'm guessing your command of the English language is your strength ...

Thanks for the pm too. It accents your positives...

Crawl back under your oil soaked log....


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## Fedaburger (Sep 3, 2012)

Let's slow down and read carefully the words in front of us guys. 
Everybody love everybody !!!!!!
It doesn't matter how much anybody defends it everyone knows how bad used engine oil is and the state of California pretty much says everything causes cancer!!!






That's why I'm glad to be livin in good ol Tennessee!!!


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## Dogsout (Sep 3, 2012)

Doobie57 I understood just fine the point you were trying to get across even with the pound signs inserted. The guy is a proven jerk who is way out of line. No since trying to match wits with an unarmed man.


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## Mad Professor (Sep 3, 2012)

Oil dumpers.

My Lawyer WILL beat up your Lawyer.

Then take your toxic property and all you own.

Ha Ha Ha CRIETIEN!!!


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## AIM (Sep 3, 2012)

Hate to post another comment and bring this to the top again but this thread has gone WAAAYYYY SOUTH!!!!

Might be a good time to just let it die.....


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## Gologit (Sep 3, 2012)

AIM said:


> Hate to post another comment and bring this to the top again but this thread has gone WAAAYYYY SOUTH!!!!
> 
> Might be a good time to just let it die.....



Excellent idea. I think everybody has made their point.


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