# Muffs vs Ear plugs



## anuvadave (Jul 28, 2007)

i see alot of ppl are now starting to use earplugs.
I use the black peltor muffs (see profile pic) & i like them but i think id like to use plugs on prunes / thins when im only cutting every now & then. - are they effective with larger saws??
If anyone has used plugs please let me know how they compare
cheers


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## PA Plumber (Jul 28, 2007)

Hope you don't mind if I jump in here.

I like muffs when it's cold.

When it's hot, I prefer plugs. The molded soft plastic/rubber are uncomfortable after a couple of hours, do not release pressure changes very well and tend to "pop" a lot for me. The soft foam ones are very nice and I can leave them in all day with little discomfort. 

Another thing, if I have dirty hands and get that on the plug, I usually end of with an ear infections(s).

I normally use Pura-Fit 6800 by Moldex, but I am impressed with the Howard Leight foam ear plugs.


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## jrparbor04 (Jul 28, 2007)

i use the muffs in the cold also,,,other than that i use the plugs and run anything from a 200t down right to an 088,,,love the plugs


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## clearance (Jul 28, 2007)

The main benefit of the muffs is that they are part of the combo, hardhat and facescreen. All there at once.


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## TimberMcPherson (Jul 28, 2007)

clearance said:


> The main benefit of the muffs is that they are part of the combo, hardhat and facescreen. All there at once.



I agree with you, I also like the fact you can have peltor work tunes in the muff unit to. helps keep your brain awake.


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## SilentElk (Jul 28, 2007)

Personally I always liked the muffs/headphones much better. The ear plugs can get gross in a hurry although they are much cooler in the summer. the major downside I have with ear plugs is the fact they are inconvenient to take out really quick if you need to talk to someone. The with the muffs they just slide up real fast and back in a flash.


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## TaoTreeClimber (Jul 28, 2007)

I agree pretty much with everyone else. the muff/visor combo is the way to go. The only thing I dont like is that the peltor system is a bear to get off of my petzl vertex vent when I want to put new stickers on it.

Kenn


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## BostonBull (Jul 28, 2007)

Kind of surprised everyone missed this but muffs are much better for hearing protection. The reason being is that there are three bones in and around the ear drum that we actually hear with. Noise can still come through the bones with plugs but the muffs cover much of the ear and bones around it, thus it is a much beter option.


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## clearance (Jul 28, 2007)

BostonBull said:


> Kind of surprised everyone missed this but muffs are much better for hearing protection. The reason being is that there are three bones in and around the ear drum that we actually hear with. Noise can still come through the bones with plugs but the muffs cover much of the ear and bones around it, thus it is a much beter option.



Learn something new everyday, I didn't know that, it makes sense.


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## BostonBull (Jul 28, 2007)

clearance said:


> Learn something new everyday, I didn't know that, it makes sense.



I didnt know this either my wife is a Rn with a BS (Bachelors of Science) and she told me this when she first learned it to help better protect my hearing. I WAS a fan of plugs before this info now I dont mind the muffs one bit, you get used to them like anything else.


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## OilHead (Jul 29, 2007)

If you can hear your saw from 2 miles away I recommend using both.


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## pbtree (Jul 29, 2007)

OilHead said:


> If you can hear your saw from 2 miles away I recommend using both.



What he said - I normally use both when I am using any of my muffler modded saws, although at times I use the muffs only...


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## TaoTreeClimber (Jul 29, 2007)

The only thing I dont like about muffs is that they press the arms of my saftey glasses into my skul right above my ear which can get annoying after a while.

Kenn


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## TaoTreeClimber (Jul 29, 2007)

The only thing I dont like about muffs is that they press the arms of my saftey glasses into my skul right above my ear which can get annoying after a while.

Kenn


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## PA Plumber (Jul 29, 2007)

Looks like 90, or more decibels, will damage hearing if sustained over a period of time.

The Moldex plugs I normally use have a hearing reduction rating of 31 decibals.

Should put me in the safe zone.

My saw (441) 110 decibels
Minus 31 for plugs
79 decibels

Works for me.


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## PA Plumber (Jul 29, 2007)

Decibel (Loudness) Comparison Chart
Here are some interesting numbers, collected from a variety of sources, that help one to understand the volume levels of various sources and how they can affect our hearing. 

Environmental Noise

Weakest sound heard 0dB 
Normal conversation (3-5') 60-70dB 
Telephone dial tone 80dB 
City Traffic (inside car) 85dB 
Train whistle at 500' 90dB 
Subway train at 200' 95dB 
Level at which sustained exposure may result in hearing loss 90 - 95dB 
Power mower 107dB 
Power saw 110dB 
Pain begins 125dB 
Pneumatic riveter at 4' 125dB 
Jet engine at 100' 140dB 
Death of hearing tissue 180dB 
Loudest sound possible 194dB


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## BostonBull (Jul 29, 2007)

TaoTreeClimber said:


> The only thing I dont like about muffs is that they press the arms of my saftey glasses into my skul right above my ear which can get annoying after a while.
> 
> Kenn



I had this problem as well. Try using the glasses that curve at the end instead of going straight out. It helps more than you would think.


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## Tom Dunlap (Jul 30, 2007)

Any time muffs are used in conjunction with safety glasses...should be all of the time...the efficiency of the muffs is reduced by about 10%. Consider that when you pick out the attenuation level of the muffs.

After reading a lot about hearing protection I have never heard any concern about the vibration transmitted by the ear bones. I'm not saying that isn't a valid concern...just that it has never come up in any reading. 

The best solution is plugs and muffs...or a handsaw


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## bushinspector (Jul 30, 2007)

BostonBull said:


> Kind of surprised everyone missed this but muffs are much better for hearing protection. The reason being is that there are three bones in and around the ear drum that we actually hear with. Noise can still come through the bones with plugs but the muffs cover much of the ear and bones around it, thus it is a much better option.




I'm not real sure but I think plugs are rated for more noise reduction than muffs. Need to check but the plugs hold out MORE sound out of the ears due to going in to the canal. The material that the plug is made of does not transfer the sound to the inner ear. Try to put a plug in one ear and the muff over the other one and see what is better. They do make ear plugs/ muffs at different noise reduction levels. It also makes a difference on how long you have noises above the 90 dba level.


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## clearance (Jul 30, 2007)

I alway wear a hardhat with the muffs and facescreen. I don't have this problem, it may not look as cool as a rock climbing helmet and glasses, but it works, thousands of loggers can't be wrong.


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## badhabits (Jul 30, 2007)

I have found that the ear plugs that are molded specifically for your ears work extreamly well. I know that they cost a fair bit of money but they will last almost for ever. These are what I use at work and have no problem in a extremely high noise level. The only thing is you have to find someone that can make these, I found out that just about any hearing specialist can make these so check the phone book.


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## PA Plumber (Jul 30, 2007)

badhabits said:


> I have found that the ear plugs that are molded specifically for your ears work extreamly well. I know that they cost a fair bit of money but they will last almost for ever. These are what I use at work and have no problem in a extremely high noise level. The only thing is you have to find someone that can make these, I found out that just about any hearing specialist can make these so check the phone book.



I think I know what you're talking about. When I used to shoot, I saw a lot of guys at the clays and skeet ranges using them. 

I have also noticed a lot of them stick the part that goes in the ear in their mouth. I just about erped the first time I saw that. I guess a little lube helps them fit better??


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## badhabits (Jul 30, 2007)

PA Plumber said:


> I have also noticed a lot of them stick the part that goes in the ear in their mouth. I just about erped the first time I saw that. I guess a little lube helps them fit better??



yuck 

I have found that if fitted properly you don't have to do that.


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## PA Plumber (Jul 30, 2007)

badhabits said:


> yuck
> 
> I have found that if fitted properly you don't have to do that.



Hey, don't knock it unless you've tried it. (just kidding!)

By the way, I have never tried it! (And I'm not kidding about that!!)


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## badhabits (Jul 30, 2007)

I guess those guys that do that miss (what were they called) "wet willies"that they got in grade school.


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## PA Plumber (Jul 30, 2007)

badhabits said:


> I guess those guys that do that miss (what were they called) "wet willies"that they got in grade school.



Now that is funny. I just never thought about it like that before. Rep headed your way.


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## badhabits (Jul 30, 2007)

To return more or less to the topic. I think that it does not matter what you ware for hearing protection as long as it is of good quality and is fitted right. You would be surprised how many people do not know how to insert earplugs correctly, even though there are instructions on every package. Then again some people don't read the instructions on another type of protection and wind up with kids. NUFF SAID

thanks PA

:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


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## bushinspector (Jul 30, 2007)

badhabits said:


> To return more or less to the topic. I think that it does not matter what you ware for hearing protection as long as it is of good quality and is fitted right. You would be surprised how many people do not know how to insert earplugs correctly, even though there are instructions on every package. Then again some people don't read the instructions on another type of protection and wind up with kids. NUFF SAID
> 
> thanks PA
> 
> :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:



My favorite type of not wearing ear plugs correctly is the EAR CLASSIC plugs inserted in the ear --- SIDEWAYS!!!!


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## badhabits (Jul 30, 2007)

bushinspector said:


> My favorite type of not wearing ear plugs correctly is the EAR CLASSIC plugs inserted in the ear --- SIDEWAYS!!!!



I see that a lot at work, our safety man is always after these guys, I think that they don't care if they go deaf before the reach 40.


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## Lou (Jul 30, 2007)

PA Plumber said:


> I think I know what you're talking about. When I used to shoot, I saw a lot of guys at the clays and skeet ranges using them.
> 
> I have also noticed a lot of them stick the part that goes in the ear in their mouth. I just about erped the first time I saw that. I guess a little lube helps them fit better??




Lick your fingers, use your fingers to lube the plugs. Yes they insert easier and seal better. Just 1 thing to consider, I know where my plugs have been; my hands have been in contact with Lord only knows what! 

I have 14 years in the desert within a few feet of running jet aircraft. The muffs were just to hot! At 114°F the river of sweat running down your neck was to much to bear. I wore ear plugs. My hearing always tested better than normal. I've been away from aircraft for 17 years, with the exception of the constant ring and the intermittent operation when wife speaks (bothers her not me) my hearing is fine. I think the ring developed after I retired. While active the plugs were always within easy reach, not true in everyday life. Muffs are more convenient for intermittent use. Both muffs and plugs that operate properly should pass normal conversation while in use. 

Muffs with the radio installed probably block conversation.


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## Thillmaine (Jul 30, 2007)

*Plugs*

The muffs on the peltor system, mounted on a petzl vertex with the vents wont stay snapped for me. Cant seem to get good hearing protections o sometmes I use the muffs, and plugs, but prefer plugs for sure...


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## Peteysmom (Aug 2, 2007)

*hearing protection*

Bottom line is, whatever you will USE, is what works best. All hearing protection devices come with an NRR- Noise Reduction Rating, but that assumes you are using them correctly. Many folks simply don't use disposable ear plugs properly. Muffs are more consistent, its hard to screw up using a muff. If you are serious about ear plugs, get custom fitted ones, they're reusable, cleanable, WAY WAY more comfortable than the disposables, and much easier to use correctly. In the Navy, we require muffs AND plugs for any dBs over 105, industrial. The folks on the flight line on carriers have special muffs....
I've been a Navy safety geek since 1988, had to give ya my two cents worth on PPE
but I am a newbie to tree farming. Watch for my desperate posts about tools and attachments.
Peteysmom


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## Magnum783 (Aug 2, 2007)

I will be with Lou I am an AF dude and the Fight line guys were plugs and muff but they all wear the foamys and love them. Most like the slicker looking kinda not the rough ones like I think the EAR Classics that look like a drum. I agree with them but I wear the rubber corded ones. I agree with all those who posted the best is what you will wear. I like the muffs on my hardhat for ocational work in the tree but when I get the ground where we are just cutting up stick and brush and running the chipper. The rubber plugs are the way to go cause they keep me head just a little cooler.
Jared


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## bushinspector (Aug 2, 2007)

Magnum783 said:


> I will be with Lou I am an AF dude and the Fight line guys were plugs and muff but they all wear the foamys and love them. Most like the slicker looking kinda not the rough ones like I think the EAR Classics that look like a drum. I agree with them but I wear the rubber corded ones. I agree with all those who posted the best is what you will wear. I like the muffs on my hardhat for ocational work in the tree but when I get the ground where we are just cutting up stick and brush and running the chipper. The rubber plugs are the way to go cause they keep me head just a little cooler.
> Jared



Yep I agree, I use the E-A-R ultrafit rubber plugs (NRR of 25dba) when on the ground and use the muffs when the hardhat is on.


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## Littman (Aug 4, 2007)

I would get ear plugs. It doesn't matter if they are the cheaper soft sponge type or the molded solid plugs. Both offer a NRR rating of about 30-32 which is higher than any ear muffs that offer NRR of 19-23 for lightweight models to 24-26 for heavier models.
(NRR= Noise Reduction Rating). The maximum NNR rating that can be achieved is about 36 and that is using both high quality plugs and muffs at the same time.

I find that ear plugs do not restrict head movement, doesn't interfere with my hat and are more comfortable to wear esp on warm days.

I use a pair of custom molded silicon ear plugs during warmer days and the disposable soft type on cold days. Solid ear plugs conducts the cold right to my brain and causes brain freeze. The sponge type does not.
I use both plugs and muffs if I wear my helmet. Usually you can go to an audiologist and have a custom mold made of your ear for about $20. You can take the mold and then send away to IE ear inc to get solid plugs or just have the audiologist order them. Molds and plugs should cost about $60 total. Get a visible color like yellow or red so they will be easy to find if you drop one.

The sonic 2 ear plugs (the ones with a baffling system which only blocks out loud sounds) only have a NRR rating of 7 which is very low. There are digital ear plugs that allow one to hear better. Of course using both is better than either alone

Remember, not only gunshots may injure your hearing but the calling also. The goal is to try to achieve a dB level less than 85. Here are some random levels.

0 dB – Lowest audible sound

50 dB – Quiet empty barn, babbling trout stream, gentle breeze

60 dB – Normal conversation

70 dB – Chicken coop, farrowing area

85 dB – Tractor or combine idling, barn cleaner, conveyor, elevator: You can begin to lose your hearing at this dB if you're exposed to it for eight (8) hours or more per day.

90 dB – Blower compressor, pneumatic wrench, chopping silage (no cab), full-throttle mower,: If you are exposed to noises at this level for four (4) hours or more per day, hearing loss can occur.

100 dB – Tractor at 80% load, squealing sows, power tools, hand-held metal grinder: One hour of exposure per day is the limit at this decibel level.

110 dB – Average Walkman set above the halfway mark, full-throttle combine, 10-HP vane-axial barn fan: Anything over 15 minutes exposure per day can cause damage.

120 dB – Thunderclap (near), sandblasting, bad muffler, old chain saw: The danger is immediate.

140 dB – Gunshot, engine back-fire, dynamite blast, jet engine. Any length of exposure time is dangerous and may actually cause ear pain.

As noise gets louder, damage can occur sooner. There is no "cure" for hearing loss. This chart is only a guideline. Anything over 85 dB can be damaging to your hearing.

I am a very part-time arborist and full time physician


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## Tom Dunlap (Aug 6, 2007)

I've been using Tiger Tails for years. The coiled retainers slip onto the bows of my safety glasses and keep the ear plugs handy.

They also stay out of most of the dirt that the plugs on cords hang into.

http://www.darlingfiresafety.com/reusable.htm


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## skygear (Feb 28, 2016)

anyone using bluetooth earmuffs or plugs? ?I have been looking at the sonofit≥


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## Big_Wood (Feb 28, 2016)

skygear said:


> anyone using bluetooth earmuffs or plugs? ?I have been looking at the sonofit≥



for my line of work i could not handle anymore noise through my headset then i already do while trying to think lol. it's not legal for me anyways. only thing i can say about plugs is they suck. i'd almost rather go deaf lol


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## skygear (Feb 28, 2016)

I like to get in a tree or cut wood and tune out the world to the tune of my own music or conversation. Most of the time i am by myself in remote areas or helping out using a blower and can't hear what is being said anyways. 

I wanted a solution i could use while running or day to day activities and also as a crossover device for cutting and blowers ( small engines) maybe when i'm shooting too.


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## Marine5068 (Mar 3, 2016)

20+ years of using hearing protection while welding, grinding and working high-speed production lines. We use plugs for most work, but anything over 90 dB we need to use both plugs with muffs over. That's the standard. When I use any of my saws or buzz saw brush cutters etc., I use both together. When running G snow blower, only use plugs.


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## Shagbark (Mar 3, 2016)

I use plugs. Push em in deep for muffler modded saws. I have not tried muffs with a saw due to my eye pro creating a gap and the copious amounts of sweat I produce.


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## skygear (Mar 3, 2016)

Just looked at the 3M plugs I have. 32db. Impressive. Still want a pair to noise cancel and listen to tunes wirelessly.


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