# How much wood can be dropped on concrete without breaking it?



## ForTheArborist (Sep 15, 2010)

I'm blowing out a 60' Stone Pine this weekend, and if I can just bomb some of this stuff onto the concrete, I'd save some time. I'm leery about doing that?

I appreciate your antidotes and advice.


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## BC WetCoast (Sep 15, 2010)

ForTheAction said:


> I'm blowing out a 60' Stone Pine this weekend, and if I can just bomb some of this stuff onto the concrete, I'd save some time. I'm leery about doing that?
> 
> I appreciate your antidotes and advice.



Don't do it. It there is any kind of cavity under the concrete you will break it.

You can build a bomb pad out of branches, say about 4' thick and bomb into that.


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## Blakesmaster (Sep 15, 2010)

Cover the concrete with plywood, two layers thick. Add some brush to the top of it. Land flat. Assuming it's well poured, you "should" be ok. If it's super pristine, block the wood out. Period. Not a worthwhile risk to take.


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## pdqdl (Sep 16, 2010)

Is the tree in the middle of a concrete pad?

Throw the wood into the dirt where there isn't any concrete. Oops! Full of landscaping? 

That's why you get the big bucks: knowing and using those sophisticated rigging techniques to miss all the valuable stuff on the ground.


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## tree md (Sep 16, 2010)

Yeah, what's wrong with blocking it down??? Doesn't take too much more time than bombing it most of the time...


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## sgreanbeans (Sep 16, 2010)

Dont do it if you can avoid it, I agree about the crash pad, we throw 3/4 plywood down, at least 2 sheets, and pile brush on, works pretty well. Concrete is only as strong as its base. BC is right, I dont care if it is some hybrid 5500psi supercrete, if there is a void under it, it will break.


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## deevo (Sep 16, 2010)

Even some old tires or matresses is what we've used in the past as well. We got them from large garbage collection week that we have around here......and they are free!


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## tree MDS (Sep 16, 2010)

Rope it down as far as you can. Make a pad with the biggger pieces that you rope down, and then chunk the rest onto the pad. Simple. 

Or you can try out the verticle speedline FTA.


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## treeslayer (Sep 16, 2010)

dump truck half full of chips. :hmm3grin2orange:


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## TimberJack_7 (Sep 16, 2010)

Best advice - better block it down. Trust me, it doesn't take a big piece to break concrete when dropped from height. You can plywood it, or put the brush down as a pad, but that does not guarantee you won't break something. 
Here is the thing when you put brush down as a pad: 1. There will always be a hole in the brush pad somewhere. 2. The worst possible piece that you drop will find that hole everytime. It will be the only one to find the hole, but it will find it.

If it was my job, I would block it down.


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## mattfr12 (Sep 16, 2010)

if your talking about a sidewalk the answer is it will crack with on good hit with a decent size log from over 10 feet. Ive seen it happen many times and it can be a costly mistake.


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## prentice110 (Sep 16, 2010)

make a layer cake out of plywood and a few 2in thick 4x8 sheets of that pink foam insulation stuff they sell at menards. aint cheap but it works wonders. still a gamble tho, when in doubt rope it out. btw, the above mentioned processs works very well when you need to drive 80000lbs on a 4in sidewalk.


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## ForTheArborist (Sep 16, 2010)

mattfr12 said:


> if your talking about a sidewalk the answer is it will crack with on good hit with a decent size log from over 10 feet. Ive seen it happen many times and it can be a costly mistake.



This is what I figured about concrete. 

Long story short, I'm going to rope it all. It's actually the city sidewalk in "snobville."

Who ever invented vertical speed lining should be given a Nobel Peace Price. I'm sure the guy just couldn't afford a fiddle block the day he discovered that "trick."


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## prentice110 (Sep 16, 2010)

ForTheAction said:


> This is what I figured about concrete.
> 
> Long story short, I'm going to rope it all. It's actually the city sidewalk in "snobville."
> 
> Who ever invented vertical speed lining should be given a Nobel Peace Price. I'm sure the guy just couldn't afford a fiddle block the day he discovered that "trick."



I want to see pics!!!


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## ForTheArborist (Sep 16, 2010)

prentice110 said:


> I want to see pics!!!



Maybe I can snap some today.


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## Nailsbeats (Sep 16, 2010)

Find and old couch, recliner, or loveseat on the side of the road and push blocks onto that. Take video cause I want to see it and hope I don't beat you to it.


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## lxt (Sep 16, 2010)

I love the responses on this thread.........go to matress world & get a good tempurpedic, place directly under tree & bomb away........hell add the sofa & lazyboy for affect!

heres the best response!........why would you ask such a dumb &*^% question? really, rig the dam thing down & be a pro! 




LXT............


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## BlueRidgeMark (Sep 16, 2010)

lxt said:


> heres the best response!........why would you ask such a dumb &*^% question? really, rig the dam thing down & be a pro!





So, LXT, quit holding back. Tell us how you *really *feel about it!


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## ForTheArborist (Sep 16, 2010)

Here we go.

I've seen OutofMyTrees or the guy from England that invented a new lowering tool (not sure which) tie one branch to another in order to support a load that the same branch without this added support would not be able to hold. I think I might try that since I need all or as much as possible of that tree to be in the front yard and not down on the street.


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## beowulf343 (Sep 16, 2010)

lxt said:


> I love the responses on this thread.........go to matress world & get a good tempurpedic, place directly under tree & bomb away........hell add the sofa & lazyboy for affect!
> 
> heres the best response!........why would you ask such a dumb &*^% question? really, rig the dam thing down & be a pro!
> 
> ...




:agree2: Best answer yet!


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## ddhlakebound (Sep 16, 2010)

lxt said:


> I love the responses on this thread.........go to matress world & get a good tempurpedic, place directly under tree & bomb away........hell add the sofa & lazyboy for affect!
> 
> heres the best response!........why would you ask such a dumb &*^% question? really, rig the dam thing down & be a pro!
> 
> ...



Are you kiddin? When I first saw the thread title I instantly knew who started it. I mean, it was expected, and he's actually ahead of schedule.


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## ForTheArborist (Sep 16, 2010)

ddhlakebound said:


> Are you kiddin? When I first saw the thread title I instantly knew who started it. I mean, it was expected, and he's actually ahead of schedule.



How much concrete have you broken already?


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## tree md (Sep 16, 2010)

lxt said:


> I love the responses on this thread.........go to matress world & get a good tempurpedic, place directly under tree & bomb away........hell add the sofa & lazyboy for affect!
> 
> heres the best response!........why would you ask such a dumb &*^% question? really, rig the dam thing down & be a pro!
> 
> ...



LOL, I did a job last month as a sub for another service. They had bitten off more than they could chew on a very large removal. Dead Read Oak in a tight drop zone, 20x20 in between the house and out building, landscaped area with sprinkler heads all around. I placed buckets over every sprinkler head, lowered every piece and blocked down every chunk til I got the spar to around 40' which is what I was contracted to do. The service that contracted me took over at that point and put the spar on the ground and I moved on to another job that they contracted me to do the same on. I left my ramps there for them as the rounds had to be dollied out over a small deck in the back yard. When I went to pick up my ramps I saw where they bombed 8 and 10 foot sections of the tree that was 5 and 6 feet in diameter. I had left a pile of brush for them in the drop zone as they had requested and saw where they had picked up a mattress from the side of the road in an attempt to cushion the blow from the chunks. Total carnage... The ground and landscaped area was totally wrecked and a sprinkler head was busted. Three foot deep craters in the ground. They said something to me about the sprinkler head and I told them no way I had done it. I told them I covered them up with buckets so I could see to avoid them. The HO was right there and confirmed it.

I left and just LMAO. That brush pile and mattress didn't even slow those chunks down...


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## ddhlakebound (Sep 16, 2010)

ForTheAction said:


> I think I might try that since I need all or as much as possible of that tree to be in the front yard and not down on the street.



Makes great sense....lower to the yard so you can carry to the street. :monkey:


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## ddhlakebound (Sep 16, 2010)

ForTheAction said:


> How much concrete have you broken already?



None. Not one piece. 

Dropped a nice size oak lead that was leaning to the 4" concrete drive last week. Landed it beside the drive without even touching. Woulda been fta'er to just drop it and hope.


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## beowulf343 (Sep 16, 2010)

ForTheAction said:


>



Forget about blocking that down. Close off the street, notch and drop that right between the pole and the hydrant.


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## ForTheArborist (Sep 16, 2010)

beowulf343 said:


> Forget about blocking that down. Close off the street, notch and drop that right between the pole and the hydrant.



Imagine the impression it can make on the sidewalk.


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## ForTheArborist (Sep 16, 2010)

ddhlakebound said:


> Makes great sense....lower to the yard so you can carry to the street. :monkey:



That HO wants the brush chipped beside his house. Instead of dropping it to the streets, and dragging it around, I'd rather lower it to the yard.


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## beowulf343 (Sep 16, 2010)

ForTheAction said:


> Imagine the impression it can make on the sidewalk.



Imagine the impression you could make on the homeowner if you had enough experience to be able to fell that _without_ it touching the sidewalk. Keep it from jumping off the stump, and i'd be interested to see if that little hill would keep that stem off the sidewalk.



ForTheAction said:


> That HO wants the brush chipped beside his house. Instead of dropping it to the streets, and dragging it around, I'd rather lower it to the yard.



That's just dumb, does the homeowner know how much dust gets blown around when chipping? Having to clean dust out of window screens and then sweeping down the side of a house is always enjoyable. Chip it on the street, then dump it where he wants it.


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## treeclimber101 (Sep 16, 2010)

OH my god FTA that tree is joke , theres so much room there if you touch the concrete your an idiot , rip the top into the court and snap cut the wood out and THROW it down on the brush , when it gets too big bridge the concrete with some wood and bump the road with the spar , seriously get your #### together man ... I mean really If I got jammed up in a tree like that my old boss would have cut at the bottom with me in it thats TREECLIMBING 101 there..


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## ForTheArborist (Sep 16, 2010)

There is no room to rip that top up there by the house. There's too few inches to between a water geyser and a pricey/fancy light pole out. The light pole is directly below the tree base. Trust me, of all people to think it that way, I thought that action all the way out. :chainsawguy:

....just rig it all down as fast as it will take.


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## tree MDS (Sep 16, 2010)

ForTheAction said:


> There is no room to rip that top up there by the house. There's too few inches to between a water geyser and a pricey/fancy light pole out. The light pole is directly below the tree base. Trust me, of all people to think it that way, I thought that action all the way out. :chainsawguy:
> 
> ....just rig it all down as fast as it will take.



Just post the pics or I'm done with ya! opcorn:


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## pdqdl (Sep 16, 2010)

beowulf343 said:


> Forget about blocking that down. Close off the street, notch and drop that right between the pole and the hydrant.



I really think that would work.

I might drop some of the branches off to lay as a pad on the sidewalk, but it looks do-able to me. The side view shows the pole right between the tree and the street, so that makes it a pretty big window to drop it into.

Big fluffy pines don't fall too fast and hard, anyway.

FTA: give us an address, and we will look at the aerial and street views on Google maps. You'll get real good opinions then.


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## tree md (Sep 16, 2010)

I'd drop that puppy in a heartbeat... :hmm3grin2orange:


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## tree md (Sep 16, 2010)

pdqdl said:


> I really think that would work.
> 
> I might drop some of the branches off to lay as a pad on the sidewalk, but it looks do-able to me. The side view shows the pole right between the tree and the street, so that makes it a pretty big window to drop it into.
> 
> ...



Right you are. And the boughs are going to cushion it from doing any damage. No need to lay any brush down. You want absolutely no stubs on the side that is going to hit the ground.

Lay it over nice and easy. Piece of cake keeping it off the sidewalk.


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## Toddppm (Sep 16, 2010)

No way, it can't be done like that.
Drag some old furniture and stained mattresses to snobville and use them. 
Take pictures.


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## tree md (Sep 16, 2010)

That being said, looks like you're working in a culdesac. I love working in culdesacs. You usually end up getting more work if you do a good job. It might be advantageous to go ahead and do a technical takedown, put on a show. Might be worthwhile to do it on a Saturday when everyone is home.


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## tree MDS (Sep 16, 2010)

Toddppm said:


> No way, it can't be done like that.
> Drag some old furniture and stained mattresses to snobville and use them.
> Take pictures.



Especially of the logs bouncing through the sliding glass doors or some ####!

Sweet! :hmm3grin2orange:


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 16, 2010)

That is a Torrey pine, FTA. That wood is very heavy. Honestly, I would find a bunch of old tires and lay them on the sidewalk and do a slow drop of the whole tree in the street. If you don't have a chipper yet, I can see why you wouldn't. That job would take about 2 hours for us. Torrey hinges really well.
Jeff


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## TimberJack_7 (Sep 16, 2010)

Wow now that the pics are up man that looks like a cake job! Brush pile and bomb it. Now that I have seen a pic that is. When you originally made this post I thought you meant there was concrete all around......C'mon now, blow it out, shouldn't take you more than 4 hours tops and that is working slow! Like someone earlier said, do it on a saturday, block it out like a pro and put on a show! You can do it!


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 16, 2010)

We would drop and clear the street in less than 13 minutes, probably 8 minutes, we would eat anything under 18" and get out of there. Come back for the stump after you call for mark outs. Go back for a $400 dollar stump cause they really like you! :yourock:
Jeff


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## ForTheArborist (Sep 16, 2010)

This is pretty bad, guys. LOL, some of this crap in this thread would sink my gig so fast.... 

I got it. I'll do it my way. BTW, that is not a Torrey Pine.


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 16, 2010)

ForTheAction said:


> I got it. I'll do it my way. BTW, that is not a Torrey Pine.



If it is not a Torrey, then you put up a pic of a Torrey and did not know it. I saw the pic's, it is a Torrey.
Jeff


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## treemandan (Sep 16, 2010)

I dunno, I am always chunking down on concrete and never had a problem with it breaking, maybe if it was defective concrete then it might break. Just did one the other day. I was pushing 3 foot dia rounds of oak from 30 feet high. Seemed to be ok.
I've seen tons of guys fell entire trees and bomb stuff on cement and don't recall any damage.


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## treemandan (Sep 16, 2010)

Blakesmaster said:


> Cover the concrete with plywood, two layers thick. Add some brush to the top of it. Land flat. Assuming it's well poured, you "should" be ok. If it's super pristine, block the wood out. Period. Not a worthwhile risk to take.



You do all of that!!?? Dam, that's a lotta work! If you hit the cement right in the middle it can take it. The stuff ain't gonna break... unless its defective.


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 16, 2010)

treemandan said:


> You do all of that!!?? Dam, that's a lotta work! If you hit the cement right in the middle it can take it. The stuff ain't gonna break... unless its defective.



Ha hahaha!
You are joking, right?
Jeff


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## ddhlakebound (Sep 16, 2010)

ForTheAction said:


> This is pretty bad, guys. LOL, some of this crap in this thread would sink my gig so fast....
> 
> I got it. I'll do it my way. BTW, that is not a Torrey Pine.



What, ya gonna erect a 3 tier scaffold so you can pole saw from it?


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## ForTheArborist (Sep 16, 2010)

Of course you can bomb some stuff on the concrete, but... maybe 2' - 4' rounds of this stuff wouldn't hurt it especially with the brush below it. It has a 3' dia, and it's not anything to be throwing 10' per down straight on the concrete. Really, you guys are right. With plenty of brush at the base, I can block small blocks for a few feat, and then drop bigger and bigger. BTW, it's not a Torrey. It's a Stone.


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## ForTheArborist (Sep 16, 2010)

ddhlakebound said:


> What, ya gonna erect a 3 tier scaffold so you can pole saw from it?



:greenchainsaw:


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## prentice110 (Sep 16, 2010)

lxt said:


> I love the responses on this thread.........go to matress world & get a good tempurpedic, place directly under tree & bomb away........hell add the sofa & lazyboy for affect!
> 
> heres the best response!........why would you ask such a dumb &*^% question? really, rig the dam thing down & be a pro!
> 
> LXT............



hands down, the best response yet . you want some rep for that? havent figure out how that works but your gona get some. my new hero here is who? LXT!!!


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## tree md (Sep 17, 2010)

I had a guy onetime have me intentionally bomb the chunks out in the driveway. He was trying to bust up the concrete to get it out of there so he could pour a new one. I tore hell out of it. And yes, it is pretty easy to tear up. Even if you only drop small pieces it will still usually leave a smeared stain on the driveway. I don't like doing that. The guys I was subbing for last month (the ones who tore up the sprinkler head) was behind on their jobs because they had to rent a concrete saw to cut and patch a driveway they had tore up.

I will often drop trees and spars across driveways and sidewalks without damaging them. I just put a good log on either side to absorb the impact.


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## ForTheArborist (Sep 17, 2010)

tree md said:


> I will often drop trees and spars across driveways and sidewalks without damaging them. I just put a good log on either side to absorb the impact.



How big are these spars? Height/Diameter

I know I've seen Murphy do that on some big trees to save time rolling them not to save the concrete. They cut easier on the "cross logs."


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## tree md (Sep 17, 2010)

ForTheAction said:


> How big are these spars? Height/Diameter
> 
> I know I've seen Murphy do that on some big trees to save time rolling them not to save the concrete. They cut easier on the "cross logs."



You got it. I do it exactly like Murphy does. I will usually put a log or two in the drop path on most spars whether I am trying to protect a driveway or not. It is better to let a small log take the impact and have a small divot to fix than have an indention the entire length of the spar. And as you have already figured out it makes it easier to buck the saw logs.

As far as size and diameter, well, you have to use a little common sense. You're not going to be able to drop a 3' or better diameter spar on a one foot log and expect to protect a driveway. Most times it's best to go ahead and chunk them out instead of taking a chance of tearing up concrete or something.


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## beowulf343 (Sep 17, 2010)

One thing to watch for if dropping stems on logs, i've seen the stem hit those logs and take a weird bounce.


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## tree md (Sep 17, 2010)

I dropped a 30" Maple spar, maybe a 15' spar on two logs in an ultra tight drop zone earlier this year. It rolled forward like it was on wheels and went straight for the privacy fence stopping about 2 feet shy. The HO was standing there watching me and said "you couldn't have planned that any better". I just smiled as I wiped the bullets I had been sweating from my brow...


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## ForTheArborist (Sep 17, 2010)

beowulf343 said:


> One thing to watch for if dropping stems on logs, i've seen the stem hit those logs and take a weird bounce.



Stems and spars aren't the same thing, are they?


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## NCTREE (Sep 17, 2010)

I think JL has the best idea, notch into the street. you can even take the top out first if you dont fell comfortable taking it in one. The tire trick works well on cement. Take some top pieces and lay them in the street, drop the log onto that so you dont dent the street.


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## NCTREE (Sep 17, 2010)

treemandan said:


> I dunno, I am always chunking down on concrete and never had a problem with it breaking, maybe if it was defective concrete then it might break. Just did one the other day. I was pushing 3 foot dia rounds of oak from 30 feet high. Seemed to be ok.
> I've seen tons of guys fell entire trees and bomb stuff on cement and don't recall any damage.



pics pleaze!!!


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## treevet (Sep 17, 2010)

tree md said:


> I dropped a 30" Maple spar, maybe a 15' spar on two logs in an ultra tight drop zone earlier this year. It rolled forward like it was on wheels and went straight for the privacy fence stopping about 2 feet shy. The HO was standing there watching me and said "you couldn't have planned that any better". I just smiled as I wiped the bullets I had been sweating from my brow...



Butt hitch the stick you are dropping with a downgraded line. Use a porty or wrap somewhere if you feel the need to slow it down to not snap the line. Sometimes it doesn't matter if the line snaps as long as it put the brakes on the movement. I have butt hitched 60 ft 3 ft dia stems on slammers.


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## treevet (Sep 17, 2010)

This thread illustrates again what a disparity there is among posters on this forum. Often the lower level guys talk like "we all" this and that as though we all on the same level of knowledge and experience.

Just looked at the pict....what a cake job....you belong in the 101 forum. I wouldn't be posting this crap if I had a year in the biz. We would swat that tree like a tired fly sitting on wall.


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## Walt41 (Sep 17, 2010)

No matter what you decide, make sure you inspect the concrete with the HO before you cut anything, that existing crack from three years ago may become your problem later...just saying


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## tree MDS (Sep 17, 2010)

treevet said:


> This thread illustrates again what a disparity there is among posters on this forum. Often the lower level guys talk like "we all" this and that as though we all on the same level of knowledge and experience.
> 
> Just looked at the pict....what a cake job....you belong in the 101 forum. I wouldn't be posting this crap if I had a year in the biz. We would swat that tree like a tired fly sitting on wall.



Maybe if this dude wasn't focused on smoke and mirrors/bs, (homemade air spade, etc.) he would be a little farther along by now.. just my two cents.


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## ForTheArborist (Sep 17, 2010)

tree MDS said:


> Maybe if this dude wasn't focused on smoke and mirrors/bs, (homemade air spade, etc.) he would be a little farther along by now.. just my two cents.



Further along what? Look at the pole directly down the hill from the mammoth and 3 feet to the right in the direction the tree would be falling. I know sure as chit I'd be taking down the tree as easy as soaking my feet in an over sized, walk in oven, but this job site isn't going to be that easy. 


The job can be screwed up in 3 ways. 1, drop the top, and nail the fancy light pole. 2, drop the spar, and roll/bounce straight away into the fancy light pole. 3, crush the fire hydrant. I could avoid the sidewalk by laying down some thick ones from the canopy on the street, and the spar would not even touch it, but that's not happenin' ladies. 

I've been doing this job for more than 1 year, TV.


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 17, 2010)

ForTheAction said:


> BTW, it's not a Torrey. It's a Stone.



Not a stone, wrong type of bark. Torrey.
Jeff


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## tree MDS (Sep 17, 2010)

ForTheAction said:


> Further along what? Look at the pole directly down the hill from the mammoth and 3 feet to the right in the direction the tree would be falling. I know sure as chit I'd be taking down the tree as easy as soaking my feet in an over sized, walk in oven, but this job site isn't going to be that easy.
> 
> 
> The job can be screwed up in 3 ways. 1, drop the top, and nail the fancy light pole. 2, drop the spar, and roll/bounce straight away into the fancy light pole. 3, crush the fire hydrant. I could avoid the sidewalk by laying down some thick ones from the canopy on the street, and the spar would not even touch it, but that's not happenin' ladies.
> ...



Sounds good. I just wanna see some good pics. I'm sort of mildly curious how you have been progressing.

As far as just flopping that tree goes.. I can't really offer much of an opinion on that, from just a pic or two online. I would have to see it in person. My guess is more than likely the brush would keep it from rolling, and also keep the log off the sidewalk (esp. if boxed a bit high).


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## tree md (Sep 17, 2010)

treevet said:


> Butt hitch the stick you are dropping with a downgraded line. Use a porty or wrap somewhere if you feel the need to slow it down to not snap the line. Sometimes it doesn't matter if the line snaps as long as it put the brakes on the movement. I have butt hitched 60 ft 3 ft dia stems on slammers.



Nice tip. I'll be putting that one in my bag of tricks.


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## treeclimber101 (Sep 17, 2010)

treevet said:


> butt hitch the stick you are dropping with a downgraded line. Use a porty or wrap somewhere if you feel the need to slow it down to not snap the line. Sometimes it doesn't matter if the line snaps as long as it put the brakes on the movement. I have butt hitched 60 ft 3 ft dia stems on slammers.



huh i am cofused , what????


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 17, 2010)

treeclimber101 said:


> huh i am cofused , what????



I will translate the vet.
I wanna see how much this old rope holds before it breaks! Yeah!
Big ol' black eye watching it come back at you.
Jeff


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## BC WetCoast (Sep 17, 2010)

ForTheAction said:


> Further along what? Look at the pole directly down the hill from the mammoth and 3 feet to the right in the direction the tree would be falling. I know sure as chit I'd be taking down the tree as easy as soaking my feet in an over sized, walk in oven, but this job site isn't going to be that easy.
> 
> 
> The job can be screwed up in 3 ways. 1, drop the top, and nail the fancy light pole. 2, drop the spar, and roll/bounce straight away into the fancy light pole. 3, crush the fire hydrant. I could avoid the sidewalk by laying down some thick ones from the canopy on the street, and the spar would not even touch it, but that's not happenin' ladies.
> ...



Fire hydrants are pretty tough. You won't be crushing it, what you would likely do is drive the hydrant down and break the elbow that sits about 4' underground. Unless you hit it dead on with a spar, you are unlikely to damage it.


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## treemandan (Sep 17, 2010)

treeclimber101 said:


> huh i am cofused , what????



He's talking about dropping a pole from the ground with a butt hitch so it doesn't get to far. I am sure you have done it, maybe to keep the trunk from rolling into a structure or something?


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## treemandan (Sep 17, 2010)

BC WetCoast said:


> Fire hydrants are pretty tough. You won't be crushing it, what you would likely do is drive the hydrant down and break the elbow that sits about 4' underground. Unless you hit it dead on with a spar, you are unlikely to damage it.



yeah, you won't break the hydrant, just the thousands of dollars below it. And Yes, FTA, Concrete busts up real easy. Ever seen anybody hit it with a hammer? What is with this guy?


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 17, 2010)

I think you should of asked the question in a different way. I wonder what the responses would be if you asked, " Big removal and no chipper, how long to get it done?" You probably want to do it a day but if you cant, well?
Jeff 
I am only assuming the chipper part.


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## treevet (Sep 18, 2010)

Why not have Lovestrom buzz over on his scooter and assess the sichyashun? 

He seems to know what he is doing ........


sometimes lol:monkey:


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## TimberMcPherson (Sep 18, 2010)

ForTheAction said:


> Further along what? Look at the pole directly down the hill from the mammoth and 3 feet to the right in the direction the tree would be falling. I know sure as chit I'd be taking down the tree as easy as soaking my feet in an over sized, walk in oven, but this job site isn't going to be that easy.
> 
> 
> The job can be screwed up in 3 ways. 1, drop the top, and nail the fancy light pole. 2, drop the spar, and roll/bounce straight away into the fancy light pole. 3, crush the fire hydrant. I could avoid the sidewalk by laying down some thick ones from the canopy on the street, and the spar would not even touch it, but that's not happenin' ladies.
> ...




If you had really been doing THIS job for more than a year, youd already know the anwer to this question. We are proffessionals, your a cowboy who charges people and uses this website to sound knowledgable to your victims/clients.

Go work for a reputable company, learn from guys who know what they are doing in real life, then use this knowledge and skill to build a reputable company which has a longer future than that point in time where you get out of your depth (your already there alot mate) and get yourself or someone else badly hurt.
Until then, youtube your work, you will able to search your name on the net and forever say "you know, although its clear by this video whats going to happen, at the time I was sure I knew what I was doing, man I wish I could still walk."


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## flushcut (Sep 18, 2010)




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## treevet (Sep 18, 2010)

Question FTA.....Were you the instigator in the tree being removed? Did you have input to the client as to the tree being unsafe or injurous to property? What appears to be a very healthy and attractive pine will change the character of that n'borhood when erased. 

You likely will get some negative press rather than more work when yanking that one. We have people yell at us when we are removing dead trees (after the foliage is stripped) all the time and just happened 3 days ago.


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## prentice110 (Sep 18, 2010)

ForTheAction said:


> Here we go.


if im looking at this right, why dont you notch and drop that thing in the street? seems to me like you wasted some time, but pics dont tell all. i woulda dropped that sucka and been on my merry way.


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## prentice110 (Sep 18, 2010)

tree md said:


> I dropped a 30" Maple spar, maybe a 15' spar on two logs in an ultra tight drop zone earlier this year. It rolled forward like it was on wheels and went straight for the privacy fence stopping about 2 feet shy. The HO was standing there watching me and said "you couldn't have planned that any better". I just smiled as I wiped the bullets I had been sweating from my brow...



yeah, after your grapes turned to raisens. wink wink.


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## prentice110 (Sep 18, 2010)

ForTheAction said:


>



Im done with this thread. best i can tell this shoulda been a clear the pole an drop. the thing is even leaning that way. If you cant make a drop like that, dont wonder why your getting under bid by others. dont wanna sound like a prick, just my 2 cents.......


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 18, 2010)

treevet said:


> Question FTA.....Were you the instigator in the tree being removed? Did you have input to the client as to the tree being unsafe or injurous to property? What appears to be a very healthy and attractive pine will change the character of that n'borhood when erased.
> 
> You likely will get some negative press rather than more work when yanking that one. We have people yell at us when we are removing dead trees (after the foliage is stripped) all the time and just happened 3 days ago.



He thinks it is a stone pine, it is a Torrey Pine. Even your average HO out here knows what a Torrey is. 
Jeff


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## bushinspector (Sep 18, 2010)

Find and old couch, recliner, or loveseat on the side of the road and push blocks onto that. Quote


You are close, just need to do is to double the amount and add a Hide away bed/ couch. The metal in the hideaway will break /give cushion, when the large chunks hit it. Take video and post.


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## treevet (Sep 18, 2010)

bushinspector said:


> Find and old couch, recliner, or loveseat on the side of the road and push blocks onto that. Quote
> 
> 
> You are close, just need to do is to double the amount and add a Hide away bed/ couch. The metal in the hideaway will break /give cushion, when the large chunks hit it. Take video and post.



guy i ran across once used to have the junkyard tow a car in then drop the tree on it and then have them come back and pick up the slightly more dented soon to be crushed vehicle for a nominal charge.


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## mattfr12 (Sep 18, 2010)

man this thread has gotten silly, thier is so much room thier to drop stuff its scary. just strip it and chunk it down.


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## tree md (Sep 18, 2010)

My dad got a call this morning from the HO on that job I subbed on last month. Dad sells real estate as well and the guy had wanted my dad to look some stuff up for him. He called this morning and asked my dad if he wanted to come pick up the piece of plywood we were using to fortify one of the ramps we were using on that large removal where the mattress kings finished the spar. We had left the plywood there for them to use. Anyway, the HO is PISSED! The ground is destroyed and he has 3 sprinkler heads broke. My dad told him that he was sorry that that had happened and he told my dad that it wasn't our fault.

I have cut ties with those guys. I don't want my name on any of their jobs. Was a mistake on my part to ever work with them to begin with.


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 18, 2010)

mattfr12 said:


> man this thread has gotten silly, thier is so much room thier to drop stuff its scary. just strip it and chunk it down.



Hey, it's FTA, makes for good reading. I am waiting for the part where he say's it is a stone pine, again. Any rookie would know it is a Torrey and some places here they are protected. Anyway, if he don't have a chipper that can eat it up and has to resort to loading, could be a good reason not to drop it. It could take all day plus a little the next if you are not set up to do that work. Personally, I would have that job done for about $1200 and out of there in 3 hours.
Jeff


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## ForTheArborist (Sep 18, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> Personally, I would have that job done for about $1200 and out of there in 3 hours.
> Jeff



Torreys are protected ESPECIALLY there, and Torreys don't even get that big. There one of the smallest trees there are. I just had a city inspector out there looking at the house that the HO is do major work on, and they OKed removing the thing, so it's definitely no Torrey.

The HO wants the tree gone because he just had to have a bunch of work done on the pipes that the roots were beating up. I didn't con the guy into getting it done. I probably shouldn't speak my mind much about the trees, but they often ask me what I think about doing any kind of work on them. If they don't need trimming, I tell them, and if they are good trees in good places for safety reasons, I tell them. Some times they call it off, and sometimes they say get in the trees anyway. And I won't even top a tree. There's a few good ways to mitigate tree size without cutting of the top.

And there is the fact I have a chipper. Some guy with a 16' box on an F700 is taking the firewood.... and then the HO wants all of the chips for his home and neighbors. Too many pine needles in the stuff if you ask me. I'm leaving it for free though.

Last but not least, this tree is getting pieced down unless by some means I can butt hitch the thing to keep it from flopping on the light pole. I have to re-exam the situation again.


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## mattfr12 (Sep 19, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> Hey, it's FTA, makes for good reading. I am waiting for the part where he say's it is a stone pine, again. Any rookie would know it is a Torrey and some places here they are protected. Anyway, if he don't have a chipper that can eat it up and has to resort to loading, could be a good reason not to drop it. It could take all day plus a little the next if you are not set up to do that work. Personally, I would have that job done for about $1200 and out of there in 3 hours.
> Jeff



i gotta agree i mean how much can you assess a tree like that thiers not to much to think about. right along side of the road, thats about as easy as it gets. from the way it originally started it sounded like it would take a crane. i would definetly say a 3 man crew could do that in 3-4 hours for sure. 

but hell what do i know rent a 200 ton linkbelt and get er done:greenchainsaw:


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## tree MDS (Sep 19, 2010)

ForTheAction said:


> I'm blowing out a 60' Stone Pine this weekend, and if I can just bomb some of this stuff onto the concrete, I'd save some time. I'm leery about doing that?
> 
> I appreciate your antidotes and advice.



So is this thing done yet or what Nancy Boy? Where the pics?

60' lol! I could sit on my ass smoking cigarettes and send one of the ground guys up to smack that thing down. Lmfao.


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## flushcut (Sep 19, 2010)

opcorn:opcorn:


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 19, 2010)

Torrey's get well over that size and they are not protectected on provate property. You should study tree ID more so your clients dont think you dont the kinda tree you are doing. I know my ID- that IS a Torrey and not protected there.
Jeff


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## lxt (Sep 19, 2010)

C`mon FTA........just do it, thats an easy, entry level tree. The only thing we all can figure is you dont have the groin fluid to do it????




LXT................


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## fishercat (Sep 19, 2010)

*i have to agree with most of the posters.*

That tree is a Cakewalk!

I see it as you have several options but I would blow the top half in the road and then bring in a good sized log and place it between the stump and the sidewalk and drop the stalk.

Wish I could do one like that every day!


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## ForTheArborist (Sep 19, 2010)

This is what got done after 5.5 hours. Heh, not too bad. 

I started out with the plan to take off the bottom for branches, and then drop it. We put a stack of wood as a big, barrier in front of that light pole, so there wasn't going to be a problem with the spar bouncing and plowing it over. Once I was in the tree, I looked down the line that the tree was leaning, and it happened to be leaning right over that fire hydrant and leaning that way way too much for me. I said no way am I'm going to be able to lever this many tons over and away from the water works. Then I got to work, and lowered everything down piece by piece, so as not to crush the bushes, light pole, and fire hydrant.

I can't believe you guys. You make this tree sound like a lot of fun, but you really can't see every angle of the sichyashun. 













Those red arrows were the screwy tops I had to get over the light pole by getting the guy to pull them off, and lower them with the big rope. Those picks make it look like hardly anything got done there, but we had to keep things from hitting stuff, so we were constantly doctoring the drops. I also had to make 3 or 4 different points to hang the branches from. Don't get it wrong. I hammered out as much as could be physically mustered by myself given the situation on the ground.


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## tree md (Sep 19, 2010)

LOL.

Wish I could show you the one I am cinching to another tree to drop tomorrow. I'm folding about the top 3rd of it back on itself... I don't dare share tips like that on here tho...


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## Rftreeman (Sep 19, 2010)

tree md said:


> Yeah, what's wrong with blocking it down??? Doesn't take too much more time than bombing it most of the time...


I think some people just get lazy sometimes or have just been spoiled by mechanical advantage....


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 20, 2010)

Did you finish that 'Torrey Pine' today, FTA?
Jeff


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## beowulf343 (Sep 20, 2010)

I don't know jeff, sounds like he's having chipper problems. Besides, if it took him over five hours to get that much done, i don't know how you were expecting him to finish it before week's end.


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 20, 2010)

beowulf343 said:


> I don't know jeff, sounds like he's having chipper problems. Besides, if it took him over five hours to get that much done, i don't know how you were expecting him to finish it before week's end.



I am being bad by calling him out on tree ID. It really bugs me when guys sell a job and does not know the name of the tree. The tree would be cake, just the ID he lacks bugs me. 
Jeff


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## newsawtooth (Sep 21, 2010)

Did he get a permit to remove said "Torrey Pine"? One of the rarest Pinus in the world and apparently one of the trickiest to remove.


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## mr. holden wood (Sep 21, 2010)

ForTheAction said:


> This is what got done after 5.5 hours. Heh, not too bad.
> 
> I started out with the plan to take off the bottom for branches, and then drop it. We put a stack of wood as a big, barrier in front of that light pole, so there wasn't going to be a problem with the spar bouncing and plowing it over. Once I was in the tree, I looked down the line that the tree was leaning, and it happened to be leaning right over that fire hydrant and leaning that way way too much for me. I said no way am I'm going to be able to lever this many tons over and away from the water works. Then I got to work, and lowered everything down piece by piece, so as not to crush the bushes, light pole, and fire hydrant.
> 
> ...



Those "screwy tops" should have been your tower and high T.I.P . I assume you can only climb with a flip line, which is part of the reason this is going to be two day removal for ya. Even if I only had a ford ranger and a crew of midgets this tree wouldn't take me longer then five hours to remove.


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 21, 2010)

newsawtooth said:


> Did he get a permit to remove said "Torrey Pine"? One of the rarest Pinus in the world and apparently one of the trickiest to remove.



No prermit needed for private property.
Jeff


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## treeslayer (Sep 21, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> No prermit needed for private property.
> Jeff



WRONG. 

HOA covenants are signed at closing and become obligatory for compliance.

Fords Colony in Wmsbg. VA requires pruning permits as well for all HO's.
A gated golf course community.


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## rbtree (Sep 21, 2010)

mr. holden wood said:


> Those "screwy tops" should have been your tower and high T.I.P . I assume you can only climb with a flip line, which is part of the reason this is going to be two day removal for ya. Even if I only had a ford ranger and a crew of midgets this tree wouldn't take me longer then five hours to remove.



Correct, Drew...No way should those tops have been wrestled out over the remaining canopy.

Either cut and toss small branches (or portions of branches) or set a redirect out over a better drop zone to lower/swing larger stuff easily. Or use some advanced speed line techniques to put brush down quickly.

Likely, the tree isn't the slam dunk some have made it out to be. (Too much armchair quarterbacking here, based on two photos that really showed very little) But it still appears relatively easy. I agree, 5 hours total to get the tree on the ground. Two ground people needed, however.


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## treevet (Sep 21, 2010)

rbtree said:


> Correct, Drew...No way should those tops have been wrestled out over the remaining canopy.
> 
> Either cut and toss small branches (or portions of branches) or set a redirect out over a better drop zone to lower/swing larger stuff easily. Or use some advanced speed line techniques to put brush down quickly.
> 
> Likely, the tree isn't the slam dunk some have made it out to be. (Too much armchair quarterbacking here, based on two photos that really showed very little) But it still appears relatively easy. I agree, 5 hours total to get the tree on the ground. Two ground people needed, however.



Hi Rog,

Drive up with bucket and crane....2 picks (I own crane and couple of buckets)...set em down on 18' flat dump and shave em and run brush thru the chipper. 2nd cut a flush cut at ground. 2 men x hrs.

Drive the 2 logs 2 miles and dump em in a factory lot for their furnace.

Smoke em if ya got em. cya


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 21, 2010)

treeslayer said:


> WRONG.
> 
> HOA covenants are signed at closing and become obligatory for compliance.
> 
> ...



Who said it was an HOA? We have removed several Torrey pines this year alone.
Jeff


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## lumberjack333 (Sep 21, 2010)

Wait for the right wind, then scream through your back cut and drop it in the cul-de-sac. Make sure you have a big saw, sharp too.
:greenchainsaw::chainsawguy:


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## deevo (Sep 21, 2010)

lumberjack333 said:


> Wait for the right wind, then scream through your back cut and drop it in the cul-de-sac. Make sure you have a big saw, sharp too.
> :greenchainsaw::chainsawguy:



Holy crap, this thing isn't down yet?


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## treemandan (Sep 21, 2010)

lumberjack333 said:


> Wait for the right wind, then scream through your back cut and drop it in the cul-de-sac. Make sure you have a big saw, sharp too.
> :greenchainsaw::chainsawguy:




Very tempting.


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## treemandan (Sep 21, 2010)

rbtree said:


> Correct, Drew...No way should those tops have been wrestled out over the remaining canopy.
> 
> Either cut and toss small branches (or portions of branches) or set a redirect out over a better drop zone to lower/swing larger stuff easily. Or use some advanced speed line techniques to put brush down quickly.
> 
> ...



Oh Really?


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## treemandan (Sep 22, 2010)

Yeah the pics suck FTA. And you spent how many hours doing what?

Well, don't let that stop ya but I don't think you are looking at this right. Maybe a little better now but be for real now; Do you really own a tree service? Ok, well at least that is settled so that's just that and its fine... I guess.
I am sure the local guys will take a liking to you. How much you got on this one?


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## ropensaddle (Sep 22, 2010)

Man It does seem to be going pretty slow but every dog has his day I suppose. Anyway don't matter how slow it gets done as long as its safe.


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## treemandan (Sep 22, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> Man It does seem to be going pretty slow but every dog has his day I suppose. Anyway don't matter how slow it gets done as long as its safe.



And I am gonna have to call bull#### on that. Loook out!


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## ropensaddle (Sep 22, 2010)

treemandan said:


> And I am gonna have to call bull#### on that. Loook out!



:monkey:


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## fishercat (Sep 22, 2010)

*seems to me............*

FTA makes mountains out of mole hills. 

I don't see what those tops and red arrows have to do with the price of tea.


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## Bigus Termitius (Sep 22, 2010)

How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?


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## fishercat (Sep 22, 2010)

*seems it's obvious....................*



Bigus Termitius said:


> How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?



it would be a hell of a lot more than FTA could chuck.


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## Bigus Termitius (Sep 22, 2010)

fishercat said:


> it would be a hell of a lot more than FTA could chuck.



That seems to be the case, I just thought I might add an equally obscure question to give perspective on the original. Howbeit, it seems to have some merit of its own in light of the present timetable.

At least FTA has safety and avoiding property damage at the top of his mind, however short of knowledge. That's a good start, too many don't have that, though groin fluid abounds. A lot more knowledge and a bit more fluid, and he should be fine...someday.

LTX, you crack me up, I like your initial post, I was just waiting for someone to say it as I was reading along. This is a low brow question, no doubt, but at least he asked. Alot of guys would have just found out like tree md's EX-associates.

The best advice that I saw towards FTA was the one about taking a Saturday and the time to put on a show for the neighborhood. Just don't screw up and don't put them to sleep over a four day period.

Alot of times I think the use of our knowledge and abilities frighten HOs, maybe even away. I did a bunch of ROW removals yesterday in a backyard ladened with power lines. The HO watched, but was terrified. What was routine, and relatively safe to me, looked reckless to them. 

Some neighborhoods, I might just drop, chip, load and go. 

In a ritzy one, I'll often take the extra time, charge for it, and look responsible. They tend to like and will pay for the conservative approach.

Depends on how much common sense per capita, and to a certain extent, how much money. There seems to be a correlation there, but I digress, that is not always the case.

Nevertheless, always safety first.


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## treevet (Sep 22, 2010)

(quote: 2 ground men needed)



treemandan said:


> Oh Really?



1 is operating the camera


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## TreeTarget (Sep 22, 2010)

mr. holden wood said:


> Those "screwy tops" should have been your tower and high T.I.P . I assume you can only climb with a flip line, which is part of the reason this is going to be two day removal for ya. Even if I only had a ford ranger and a crew of midgets this tree wouldn't take me longer then five hours to remove.



Definately have to agree with you about the time to get the tree down, but have to ask what you have against us little people and our choice of pickups? You might be jealous of our ability to fit our entire families in said conveyance, but that does not give you the right to use us as comedic-gimmicks to get your point across--we're in the same business, you know...For your example, you couldn't have used, "monkeys," or "Palin followers" instead?

The boss would have loved the climb in this one. Seeing that those tops are missing at the wrong time, and I don't do the climbing/dropping, actually makes me feel good. Either I have been paying WAY too much attention at work, or that five minutes I spent skimming the Tree Climber's Companion REALLY paid off.
Have to ask though, if there was a saw involved in any of those "cuts" the arrows refer to. Looks like they were broken off with a logging chain and a tank, rather than cut prematurely.
Again though, I apologise as I am not a professional camera-person either, and really never climb, since I'm only a dwarf on the ground. It's just that getting to the short of it is one of the key things they teach us in the lolly-pop guild.


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## tree md (Sep 22, 2010)

I've got to tell you, my style of climbing is to take whole leaders like that. Even when I am in an ultra tight drop zone I rope big pieces and let my guys cut it up as it's lowered. Really works out well for me. I use 3/4 bull line and there is not much that rope will not handle. If you have one man lower it and put the breaks on the piece before it contacts the ground that eliminates any chance of pinching the saw or having any tension whatsoever on the limbs/logs as you cut. Have one man lower, one man cut and one man clear the limbs and chunks out as it comes down. That has worked really well for me for years now. Of course, you need to have the forethought and capability of swinging big leaders and pieces without killing yourself but they come down really fast like that.

Really, you could drop it in the street but that would be cowboy style. Take your time, do it right and make it look good. You will likely get more work out of it that way. And as has been mentioned, safety is priority number one, not time.


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 22, 2010)

I am betting he is still at it as I figure he will post when its done. I just can't believe he thinks it is a stone pine. 
Jeff


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## LarryTheCableGuy (Sep 22, 2010)

Well, he will get months of advertising, guessing at how long he will end up spending on the jobsite...





.


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## treevet (Sep 22, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> I am betting he is still at it as I figure he will post when its done. I just can't believe he thinks it is a stone pine.
> Jeff



we know.....we know....we kno......:deadhorse:


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 22, 2010)

treevet said:


> we know.....we know....we kno......:deadhorse:



Haha, Got it. You caught me just before I was getting ready to post a side by side pic of each from the same job. Just really bugs me about the ID. How can someone take you seriously when you don't know what kind of tree you are removing? Even the mailman and garbage man know what a Torrey is. OK, I am over it!
Jeff


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## ropensaddle (Sep 22, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> Haha, Got it. You caught me just before I was getting ready to post a side by side pic of each from the same job. Just really bugs me about the ID. How can someone take you seriously when you don't know what kind of tree you are removing? Even the mailman and garbage man know what a Torrey is. OK, I am over it!
> Jeff



Hey Jeffy ever get a job tree is so dead its hard to pin point specific epithet?
I have and customer asks what kind of tree is it and I say dead,very dead tree :monkey:


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 22, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> Hey Jeffy ever get a job tree is so dead its hard to pin point specific epithet?
> I have and customer asks what kind of tree is it and I say dead,very dead tree :monkey:



Apples to apples. Not going with the ' What if" on this. But to answer your question, Yeah, 
Jeff


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## Rftreeman (Sep 22, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> Haha, Got it. You caught me just before I was getting ready to post a side by side pic of each from the same job. Just really bugs me about the ID. How can someone take you seriously when you don't know what kind of tree you are removing? Even the mailman and garbage man know what a Torrey is. OK, I am over it!
> Jeff


I couldn't tell a torrey from a corn stalk but I've never seen one either, they don't grow around here.....


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## ropensaddle (Sep 22, 2010)

Rftreeman said:


> I couldn't tell a torrey from a corn stalk but I've never seen one either, they don't grow around here.....



Loblolly , longleaf , shortleaf?


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## treevet (Sep 23, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> Haha, Got it. You caught me just before I was getting ready to post a side by side pic of each from the same job. Just really bugs me about the ID. How can someone take you seriously when you don't know what kind of tree you are removing? Even the mailman and garbage man know what a Torrey is. OK, I am over it!
> Jeff



Post the picts.


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 23, 2010)

*Torrey Pine*

Del Mar,
Jeff


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## treevet (Sep 23, 2010)

thanks...

round here even somebody like obama can tell the dif between a white pine and an austrian


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## tree MDS (Sep 23, 2010)

All this time, and we haven't even gotten to the wood vs. concrete part yet?? Can this really be? I am more than a little disappointed to say the least FTA... what does that stand for again? Failure To Appear? Cut the ####ing tree, and post the damn pics already!


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## tree MDS (Sep 23, 2010)

Maybe the homeowner should have hired Timmy the lawn kid to whip that thing down.. probably would've had better luck..


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 23, 2010)

Maybe we should not joke until we find out. I would feel bad if he got hurt.
Jeff


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## tree md (Sep 23, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> Maybe we should not joke until we find out. I would feel bad if he got hurt.
> Jeff



That's why I am often leery of giving advice. I mean you kind of naturally assume that most guys posting in the commercial forum are working, professional climbers that understand what blocking down a piece of wood means when you mention that.

Really, there is noway to tell someone's skill set by just reading on these forums. I mean there are the guys who have been posting for years, you've seen pics of there work and naturally assume that they know what they are doing or they wouldn't have been successful at running a business or remaining employed as a climber.

I'd feel terrible if someone got hurt doing something I told them to do...


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## Mikecutstrees (Sep 23, 2010)

I'm just glad I'm on the east coast. Iv'e heard you guys have big trees out there but these torry/ stone pine hybrids sound immense. 

Seriously the biggest pine we ever did had to be climbed and lowered in a backyard and took me and 3 guys 2 days. 36" dia. 90+ feet tall....

Mike


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## treevet (Sep 23, 2010)

:


tree md said:


> That's why I am often leery of giving advice. I mean you kind of naturally assume that most guys posting in the commercial forum are working, professional climbers that understand what blocking down a piece of wood means when you mention that.
> 
> Really, there is noway to tell someone's skill set by just reading on these forums. I mean there are the guys who have been posting for years, you've seen pics of there work and naturally assume that they know what they are doing or they wouldn't have been successful at running a business or remaining employed as a climber.
> 
> I'd feel terrible if someone got hurt doing something I told them to do...



:agree2:

I was on the verge of asking him how do you block down big wood but already had suggested that he was asking a question that put him out of the ability to remove this tree. 

I didn't want to offend him any more but that question would have revealed everything.


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## fishercat (Sep 23, 2010)

*I agree.*



Bigus Termitius said:


> That seems to be the case, I just thought I might add an equally obscure question to give perspective on the original. Howbeit, it seems to have some merit of its own in light of the present timetable.
> 
> At least FTA has safety and avoiding property damage at the top of his mind, however short of knowledge. That's a good start, too many don't have that, though groin fluid abounds. A lot more knowledge and a bit more fluid, and he should be fine...someday.
> 
> ...



the fact that he is concerned about the concrete is reassuring.I watch guys around here bomb logs out onto sidewalks and even brand new pavement without a care in the world.I still cannot figure out how they stay in business.

I do give you credit for that FTA.still gonna bust your chops though.:biggrinbounce2:


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## flushcut (Sep 23, 2010)

I have to know did the job ever get done? The last I saw was the tree still standing and as I remeber it was suppose to be gone over the weekend! Did you break the concrete or what?


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## tree MDS (Sep 24, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> Maybe we should not joke until we find out. I would feel bad if he got hurt.
> Jeff



Well, lets hope he doesn't get hurt then.


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## ForTheArborist (Sep 24, 2010)

LOL, (reading this thread) the tree is no more. 

I've been in a rage over some things with somebody in the area and how that has undermined by business to a degree. I'm not going to explain that at all, but that's why so many days have gone by, and I wasn't going to reply to nothin' :greenchainsaw:

Anyway, the tree was nothing to take down. It was just the time of piecing it down. It's been a 7 hour monkey maze to get it to the ground i.e. safely to the ground. Other than all of the surrounding complications overcasting this contract, I liked the job. I took no less than 6 jobs out of that neighborhood, so I'll be around there for a while.

BTW, there was no concrete broken, and I blocked the spar down on the brush by 10 footers. 

Hell of a job. I've got to trim up some big ones tomorrow if I can get all of my shop work done in time this morning. So then I better get some pics.


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## ForTheArborist (Sep 24, 2010)

Jeff, it is a Torrey. I feel bad about my bad call there. I was relying on the old man who is supposed to be my "expert in the field." He knows a lot about trees and horticulture (not tree work tho), but he called this one wrong. Now I have another piece of evidence to try to explain to him that his powers of knowing all are finite. He'll just scoff at me, and let it roll under the bridge. lol

The Stone has 2 needle bunches and the Torrey has 5 needle bunches. This tree had 5 needle bunches.


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 24, 2010)

ForTheAction said:


> Jeff, it is a Torrey. I feel bad about my bad call there. I was relying on the old man who is supposed to be my "expert in the field." He knows a lot about trees and horticulture (not tree work tho), but he called this one wrong. Now I have another piece of evidence to try to explain to him that his powers of knowing all are finite. He'll just scoff at me, and let it roll under the bridge. lol
> 
> The Stone has 2 needle bunches and the Torrey has 5 needle bunches. This tree had 5 needle bunches.



All is good, Bet it was sappy as heck, huh?
Jeff


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 24, 2010)

*Stone pines in Del Mar*

Look at the trunk.
Jeff


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## ForTheArborist (Sep 24, 2010)

Of course, and I've been going into the businesses around here with tar on my whole body. Except for the tar factor, I like that smell. 

I'll keep a visual of that bark.


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 24, 2010)

ForTheAction said:


> Of course, and I've been going into the businesses around here with tar on my whole body. Except for the tar factor, I like that smell.
> 
> I'll keep a visual of that bark.



I actually prefer Torrey to stone. Stone's have more branches and more confined work space.
Jeff


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## tree md (Sep 24, 2010)

So you chunked it out and dropped it on the brush... You know to block it down you would actually need to use one of these pulley looking things called an arborist block right???







Anywho, glad all ended well.


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 24, 2010)

I'm guessing that when he said 'blocked down', he meant the size of the chunks he was cutting so that he could control a safe landing for rounds probably about starting at 10" getting to more than 20' and then the trunk wood. Maybe that ' fancy pole' made the bushes inviting.
Jeff


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## ropensaddle (Sep 24, 2010)

tree md said:


> So you chunked it out and dropped it on the brush... You know to block it down you would actually need to use one of these pulley looking things called an arborist block right???
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ya know ole rope knows how to use one but he won't hardly do so. I just quit liking the crap shook outta me!


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## tree md (Sep 24, 2010)

Rope, I live for getting the crap shook outa me... I have to admit, hanging big wood still makes my heart go pitter patter... So sue me. The day I loose that feeling is the day I'll give it up...


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## ropensaddle (Sep 24, 2010)

tree md said:


> Rope, I live for getting the crap shook outa me... I have to admit, hanging big wood still makes my heart go pitter patter... So sue me. The day I loose that feeling is the day I'll give it up...



Lol I get enough pitter patter bro I like static loads :monkey:


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 24, 2010)

tree md said:


> Rope, I live for getting the crap shook outa me... I have to admit, hanging big wood still makes my heart go pitter patter... So sue me. The day I loose that feeling is the day I'll give it up...



I am trying to find the appropriate medal for you, I need to check the other drawers, but I will get back.
Jeff


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## tree md (Sep 24, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> Lol I get enough pitter patter bro I like static loads :monkey:



LOL, we all live for static loads brother. Just can't always find a high point to hang wood from...


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## ropensaddle (Sep 24, 2010)

tree md said:


> LOL, we all live for static loads brother. Just can't always find a high point to hang wood from...



I know, problem is: I can't be on the ground and in the tree or I would do more rigging point below as groundies don't get it.


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## tree md (Sep 24, 2010)

You need to barrow my groundy for a day.


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## ropensaddle (Sep 24, 2010)

tree md said:


> You need to barrow my groundy for a day.



Lol you won't get him back!


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## tree md (Sep 24, 2010)

Oh God, Quick, gimme a shipping address!!! Free shipping!!! Been trying to get rid of him for a few years now!!! LOL.

To tell the truth, my groundy is awesome... Both of them are... Nope make that all three!.

My number one groundy has been with me for three years. He comes from a town in GA about 60 miles where I am from and has been doing ground work for 20 years. I don't have to tell him much on the ropes and sometimes he tells me.

My number two groundy has been with me for 2 years and was Army Airborne. He's new to the tree biz but spent about 20 years jumping out of airplanes. He is very intuitive with ropes. I have to direct him but he automatically knows what I mean when I tell him. He is intuitive about the ropes and I have taken down some large risky trees with just him alone.

Number three groundy is my dad. He has been working ropes with me for 20 years off and on and he still don't get it!!! LOL, Just kidding. My pop's does just fine. As a matter of fact he is the guy usually holding the tag line on the pieces that want to swing back and get me.

My number one guy is really awesome on the ropes tho. I very rarely have to tell him anything, Except to get his ass to work. He knows the ropes and saws and he thinks that's all he's supposed to do. He doesn't like to tote logs or brush. I usually have to tell him that if he don't start moving some wood I'll call someone who can.


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## ropensaddle (Sep 24, 2010)

tree md said:


> Oh God, Quick, gimme a shipping address!!! Free shipping!!! Been trying to get rid of him for a few years now!!! LOL.
> 
> To tell the truth, my groundy is awesome... Both of them are... Nope make that all three!.
> 
> ...



Lol Ole rope went out on a nightmare job to bid 5 large pines and a dead oak growing out of large ornate deck. I called her tonight and she said she already decided to use a different service, kind of weird deal as I was referred Anyway all this work was on a cliff in the back yard going down to the lake. I asked her just for a feel of where our market is heading the winning bid. This job was bid at 4 hundred per tree with no access and a cliff to work on I think ole rope needs to look into greener pastures:monkey:


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## tree md (Sep 24, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> Lol Ole rope went out on a nightmare job to bid 5 large pines and a dead oak growing out of large ornate deck. I called her tonight and she said she already decided to use a different service, kind of weird deal as I was referred Anyway all this work was on a cliff in the back yard going down to the lake. I asked her just for a feel of where our market is heading the winning bid. This job was bid at 4 hundred per tree with no access and a cliff to work on I think ole rope needs to look into greener pastures:monkey:



Hey brother, you know if you ever really need a top notch groundy to get a specialized job done you can always holler at me. I'm not too far away. If we schedule it, I could take a day or two and give you a hand no problem rope..


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## Bigus Termitius (Sep 25, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> Lol Ole rope went out on a nightmare job to bid 5 large pines and a dead oak growing out of large ornate deck. I called her tonight and she said she already decided to use a different service, kind of weird deal as I was referred Anyway all this work was on a cliff in the back yard going down to the lake. I asked her just for a feel of where our market is heading the winning bid. This job was bid at 4 hundred per tree with no access and a cliff to work on I think ole rope needs to look into greener pastures:monkey:



scratch one ornate deck.

Do they have insurance? Let me guess. Ah, let me think....no.

It's jobs like that I can walk away from and smile.

You might get a call back yet, though.


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## tree MDS (Sep 25, 2010)

tree md said:


> So you chunked it out and dropped it on the brush... You know to block it down you would actually need to use one of these pulley looking things called an arborist block right???
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I see you picked up some tenex md... looks kinda shiny though..


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## ropensaddle (Sep 25, 2010)

Bigus Termitius said:


> scratch one ornate deck.
> 
> Do they have insurance? Let me guess. Ah, let me think....no.
> 
> ...



See brother thats just it, I unknowingly ground six stumps for the crew that won the bid that very day. They do have insurance or at least supposed to. They have a large add and now I know why I don't get much work in Hot Springs. He is one of the better in our book and if he is that cheap, I see my problem. I told the lady the price was depressing to me and that I had no intention of attempting to compete with those prices.


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## treevet (Sep 25, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> See brother thats just it, I unknowingly ground six stumps for the crew that won the bid that very day. They do have insurance or at least supposed to. They have a large add and now I know why I don't get much work in Hot Springs. He is one of the better in our book and if he is that cheap, I see my problem. I told the lady the price was depressing to me and that I had no intention of attempting to compete with those prices.



they may be a good service and they may have insurance but when they consistently lowbid to win they will get in a habit of cutting corners and doing some more dangerous things and it will catch up to them. they got overhead and unexpected expenses just like us.

you can do a million perfect jobs and few hear about you but do one fk up and you get talked about at church, diners, social clubs, the golf course etc, etc. 

customers like that will never change tho. they always gonna scratch the bottom of the barrel and who wants them?


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## ropensaddle (Sep 25, 2010)

treevet said:


> they may be a good service and they may have insurance but when they consistently lowbid to win they will get in a habit of cutting corners and doing some more dangerous things and it will catch up to them. they got overhead and unexpected expenses just like us.
> 
> you can do a million perfect jobs and few hear about you but do one fk up and you get talked about at church, diners, social clubs, the golf course etc, etc.
> 
> customers like that will never change tho. they always gonna scratch the bottom of the barrel and who wants them?



Not me TV but it is too popular of a thing for customers in my area. I guess this guy is hurting to bid like that I am going to seek advertising in other areas less crowded I think!


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## treevet (Sep 25, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> Not me TV but it is too popular of a thing for customers in my area. I guess this guy is hurting to bid like that I am going to seek advertising in other areas less crowded I think!



Is that golf course you work on private? When I moved my biz to Cinci I approached the local golf course/country club and gave some free work and cheap work to get all their work and access to member directory and recommendation of the super.

If they can belong to a country club they got bucks.


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## ropensaddle (Sep 25, 2010)

treevet said:


> Is that golf course you work on private? When I moved my biz to Cinci I approached the local golf course/country club and gave some free work and cheap work to get all their work and access to member directory and recommendation of the super.
> 
> If they can belong to a country club they got bucks.



Yes its private but its different here they have bucks but they hate to use them. I am disappointed in our market I lowered my prices this year and have been busier but in other areas. I have always had trouble in Hot Springs markets and I know why nowI bid a job in the highest ranked hood in our town and found out they had 27 different estimates can you imagine the lowest bid on that


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## treevet (Sep 25, 2010)

damn

you gotta become the go to guy with the people that got the bucks. they like to have the best and if you can stick out somehow and they stop thinking everyone in the tree biz is the same..... 

doesn't hurt to be a little eccentric. i like to totally go off on someone that is real cheap and an a hole once in a while. gets you a bad rep with them and their friends but chances are others besides you think they are a dich too and they may admire you for doing something they always wanted to do.. 

If they think you are a little crazy then you stand out from the crowd.

don't you lol


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## treemandan (Sep 25, 2010)

tree md said:


> So you chunked it out and dropped it on the brush... You know to block it down you would actually need to use one of these pulley looking things called an arborist block right???
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Not me, I was hoping for disaster. I really was! Hey, if you want me to be dishonest just say so.


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## ropensaddle (Sep 25, 2010)

treevet said:


> damn
> 
> you gotta become the go to guy with the people that got the bucks. they like to have the best and if you can stick out somehow and they stop thinking everyone in the tree biz is the same.....
> 
> ...


Yup I think your on to sumpin, gonna have to hire me some strippers to sucker them in lol

Nah time to get the cert I suppose


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## ddhlakebound (Sep 25, 2010)

treemandan said:


> Not me, I was hoping for disaster. I really was! Hey, if you want me to be dishonest just say so.



lol.....

did I miss the after pic? the stump? 

you guys are more trusting that I thought if FTA said it's done, and that was the end of it. 

pics, or it didn't happen.


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## treevet (Sep 26, 2010)

ddhlakebound said:


> lol.....
> 
> did I miss the after pic? the stump?
> 
> ...



sidewalk pict included opcorn:


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## lone wolf (Sep 26, 2010)

Hey rope I wonder if you would get more work or less work if you hired strippers?


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## ropensaddle (Sep 26, 2010)

lone wolf said:


> Hey rope I wonder if you would get more work or less work if you hired strippers?



Lol :dunno:


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## treevet (Sep 26, 2010)

lone wolf said:


> Hey rope I wonder if you would get more work or less work if you hired strippers?



the word about getting more work in a bad economy is "be cheaper or have something that stands out from the rest"

I say Hell yeah


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## ropensaddle (Sep 26, 2010)

treevet said:


> the word about getting more work in a bad economy is "be cheaper or have something that stands out from the rest"
> 
> I say Hell yeah



I thought paying them to pick up the sticks would be entertaining to many clients.


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## lone wolf (Sep 26, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> I thought paying them to pick up the sticks would be entertaining to many clients.



For male clients I am sure it would work. But the married ones you would alienate the wives and lose customers. I would bet you sure would get a lot of guys that wanted to work for you. Hey what about a stripper that could climb if they could climb that pole they could climb a tree.


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## tree MDS (Sep 26, 2010)

ddhlakebound said:


> lol.....
> 
> did I miss the after pic? the stump?
> 
> ...



I lost interest after it took five hours (or whatever it was) to get a few side limbs off.

Pics would have been fun though. I was hoping to see some action shots of this cat in a tree.. and just the whole "operation" in general.


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## ropensaddle (Sep 26, 2010)

lone wolf said:


> For male clients I am sure it would work. But the married ones you would alienate the wives and lose customers. I would bet you sure would get a lot of guys that wanted to work for you. Hey what about a stripper that could climb if they could climb that pole they could climb a tree.



Lol I already gots the ladies man, I mean they love to watch ole rope body thrust but I have to tell em ole ropes taken


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## tree md (Sep 26, 2010)

tree MDS said:


> I see you picked up some tenex md... looks kinda shiny though..



LOL. that block and sling is 4 years old. I rarely use the tenex sling anymore. I'm mostly using stable braid now. However, I do keep my blocks, slings and other gear in bags. I like to keep them shiny...


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## tree MDS (Sep 26, 2010)

tree md said:


> LOL. that block and sling is 4 years old. I rarely use the tenex sling anymore. I'm mostly using stable braid now. However, I do keep my blocks, slings and other gear in bags. I like to keep them shiny...



Four years! If you aint gonna use that thing, you can send it over my way. I could use a couple new slings. I have both stable braid and tenex slings. the stable braid is going to be phased out completely soon though.


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## tree md (Sep 26, 2010)

Rope, I've had to reduce the prices by about a third. It took me a little while to catch on too. After I heard a couple of prices on bids I lost I started lowering my prices but I refuse to shoot myself in the foot.

Had one guy who has a large service bid $1100 to remove 2 medium sized trees and pick them over the house with a crane. We were on the property at the same time. After the guy left the HO told me the bid. I said that I didn't even want to try to compete with that.

Had another guy that was estimating a bid at the same time I was. Was a storm damage job. HO said his agent said the insurance company would cover all the work. 3 trees on the house on one side and 2 on the other. A large Hackberry and a large Oak included in the trees on the house. Nothing around to get a rope in and get on the trees. He also wanted around 20 trees on the property pruned that had sustained damage. I bid $5600. The other guy bid $1900. This joker didn't even own a tree service. He did line location or something like that for the oil industry and did tree work on the side. I laughed and walked away.


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## fishercat (Sep 26, 2010)

*i hear you.*



tree md said:


> Rope, I've had to reduce the prices by about a third. It took me a little while to catch on too. After I heard a couple of prices on bids I lost I started lowering my prices but I refuse to shoot myself in the foot.
> 
> Had one guy who has a large service bid $1100 to remove 2 medium sized trees and pick them over the house with a crane. We were on the property at the same time. After the guy left the HO told me the bid. I said that I didn't even want to try to compete with that.
> 
> ...



Its gotten out of control here.I host lost out on a large oak that broke of into a neighbors yard.pticed it at 1800 with the crane.another Guy got it for a grand with a Crane.not even worth driving the Crane over and setting it up for that.hopefully he gets popped for 1800 on the way home by the DMV.


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 26, 2010)

I think it is easier for a large company to lower their prices to keep guys working and absorb some temporary lower man hour profit. A larger company has working capital and can withstand the economy ups and downs.
Jeff


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## BlueRidgeMark (Sep 26, 2010)

tree md said:


> I bid $5600. The other guy bid $1900. This joker didn't even own a tree service. He did line location or something like that for the oil industry and did tree work on the side. I laughed and walked away.





The problem is that your business has what's known as a "low barrier to entry".

That's a fancy way of saying that any jackass with a chainsaw can call himself a tree service, whether he knows anything or not, whether he's insured or not.


Makes it really tough on you guys.


I had a similar experience (on a much smaller scale) back years ago when cellphones were new. I was installing them as a business. Then HIGH SCHOOL kids got into the act and drove me out of business. They'd charge 25 bucks for a job that I'd bill at $150. No insurance, no skills, just slap them in take the money and run. One dealer I worked for was constantly calling me to do repair work on sloppy installations, but he never did figure out that he was actually paying MORE by going with the hack jobs. 

You'd think shelling out for a Cadillac that was burned to the ground would have convinced him, but nope, the "right now today" price was all he looked at. The fact that I carried insurance meant nothing.


You guys are fighting the same battle against every yo-yo with a lawnmower, some ropes, and a chainsaw.

I feel for you. It's a tough battle.


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## treeclimber101 (Sep 26, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> I think it is easier for a large company to lower their prices to keep guys working and absorb some temporary lower man hour profit. A larger company has working capital and can withstand the economy ups and downs.
> Jeff



Exactly and I think they've been pretty timid in that around here, large companies around could squash a lot of guys by cutting there prices but the long term is equally damaging , it takes a long time for prices to climb back , firewood for instance was 125.00 average here for more than 20 years ...


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## tree md (Sep 26, 2010)

treeclimber101 said:


> Exactly and I think they've been pretty timid in that around here, large companies around could squash a lot of guys by cutting there prices but the long term is equally damaging , it takes a long time for prices to climb back , firewood for instance was 125.00 average here for more than 20 years ...



LOL, They would be cutting their own throats. I been in business since 94. I've seen all kinds of ups and downs. My equipment is paid for. Very low overhead. I have a good name and clientele where I live. If I had to I could survive on what I kill and often do. I fed me and my groundy on deer meat I put in the freezer all last Winter. Can't starve me out and I'm not going anywhere.


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## treeclimber101 (Sep 26, 2010)

tree md said:


> LOL, They would be cutting their own throats. I been in business since 94. I've seen all kinds of ups and downs. My equipment is paid for. Very low overhead. I have a good name and clientele where I live. If I had to I could survive on what I kill and often do. I fed me and my groundy on deer meat I put in the freezer all last Winter. Can't starve me out and I'm not going anywhere.



Not really talking to anyone in particular , but its the truth they could work for free for a long time but they might be doing it all in vein ..


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## tree md (Sep 26, 2010)

Yeah, I'm not talking to anyone in particular either, just thinking out loud really.

I agree, I believe it is going to take a long time for prices to rebound. Can't really be helped though, people across the board are making less money now. I was talking to a client last week who is the finance director for a large car dealership here. He told me that he has had to take a 50% pay cut in the past two years. Times are just hard right now. Lot's of people still out of work here or working lesser jobs just to make a living.


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## treeclimber101 (Sep 26, 2010)

tree md said:


> Yeah, I'm not talking to anyone in particular either, just thinking out loud really.
> 
> I agree, I believe it is going to take a long time for prices to rebound. Can't really be helped though, people across the board are making less money now. I was talking to a client last week who is the finance director for a large car dealership here. He told me that he has had to take a 50% pay cut in the past two years. Times are just hard right now. Lot's of people still out of work here or working lesser jobs just to make a living.



Instead of taking a 50% loss which sounds super depressing I just tell people I have to work twice as hard to make the money I am used to


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 26, 2010)

It is what it is, deal with it or get out of it. It all works out.
Jeff


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## treevet (Sep 26, 2010)

treeclimber101 said:


> Not really talking to anyone in particular , but its the truth they could work for free for a long time but they might be doing it all in vein ..



you KNOW who is gonna take the beatin?

The grunt groundy and climber.

The salesman with fixed percentage and management are the last to get slammed

either decrease pay, hire entry at lower than existing labor and boot some or just eliminate positions and push the remaining labor harder.

Bartlett was great at that. Salesman always saying he is gonna go to bat for the grunt and when he gets tired of hearing that....bybye


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 26, 2010)

treevet said:


> you KNOW who is gonna take the beatin?
> 
> The grunt groundy and climber.
> 
> ...



So you are a pessimistic.
Jeff


----------



## treevet (Sep 26, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> So you are a pessimistic.
> Jeff



u are using an adjective where you need a noun


----------



## jefflovstrom (Sep 26, 2010)

You spelled 'vain' wrong!
Jeff


----------



## jefflovstrom (Sep 26, 2010)

My bad, it was 101. Sorry, pessimist.
Jeff


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## treeclimber101 (Sep 26, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> You spelled 'vain' wrong!
> Jeff



Thamks


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## treevet (Sep 26, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> My bad, it was 101. Sorry, pessimist.
> Jeff



gimme 20 pushups


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 26, 2010)

I did 30 to humble myself.
Jeff


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## treevet (Sep 26, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> I did 30 to humble myself.
> Jeff



don't squash the tortoise


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 26, 2010)

treevet said:


> don't squash the tortoise



You are like one of the funniest dudes I ever read! Quick whit.
Jeff


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## treevet (Sep 26, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> You are like one of the funniest dudes I ever read! Quick whit.
> Jeff



yeah right...

you got any picts of him/her? I love turtles


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## Bermie (Sep 26, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> You are like one of the funniest dudes I ever read! Quick whit.
> Jeff



it's ...wit...not whit...


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 26, 2010)

treevet said:


> yeah right...
> 
> you got any picts of him/her? I love turtles



Lets see if this works.


----------



## jefflovstrom (Sep 26, 2010)

Try this TV,
www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRoxnRWEP6A
Jeff


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 26, 2010)

Wow, I did it!
Jeff 
Enjoy


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 26, 2010)

Wit!
Jeff,


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## tree md (Sep 26, 2010)

Bermie said:


> it's ...wit...not whit...


----------



## flushcut (Sep 26, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> Try this TV,
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRoxnRWEP6A
> Jeff



Sooooo, is that your pet?


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 26, 2010)

flushcut said:


> Sooooo, is that your pet?



Nah, it just won't leave. likes it here. lot's of acreage and veggies and fruit every day. My kids think it is a pet tho.
Jeff


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## flushcut (Sep 26, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> Nah, it just won't leave. likes it here. lot's of acreage and veggies and fruit every day. My kids think it is a pet tho.
> Jeff



Make sure the youngins wash up after playing with it cause they carrie some nasty bugs. Does fido have a name?


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 26, 2010)

flushcut said:


> Make sure the youngins wash up after playing with it cause they carrie some nasty bugs. Does fido have a name?



I sure appreciate the sanitary advice, although we don't play with it, he comes around the back door about the same time every day until winter, then we don't see him until around June. He made a big house under a Valencia orange tree in the back yard. Been here 4 years or more, he ain't going nowhere, this is 140 acres.
Jeff 
going to wash my hands.


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 26, 2010)

flushcut said:


> carrie



Carry.
Jeff


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## flushcut (Sep 26, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> I sure appreciate the sanitary advice, although we don't play with it, he comes around the back door about the same time every day until winter, then we don't see him until around June. He made a big house under a Valencia orange tree in the back yard. Benn here 4 years or more, he ain't going nowhere, this is 140 acres.
> Jeff
> going to wash my hands.



Sounds like fluffy has it pretty good


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## flushcut (Sep 26, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> Carry.
> Jeff



My bad, girl on the brain


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 26, 2010)

flushcut said:


> Sounds like fluffy has it pretty good



Hahahah!! We just named him ' Fluffy!' my kids laughed and loved it!. Flushcut named it--funny, 
Jeff


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## flushcut (Sep 26, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> Hahahah!! We just named him ' Fluffy!' my kids laughed and loved it!. Flushcut named it--funny,
> Jeff



Now thats funny


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## EdenT (Sep 26, 2010)

Good to see this thread is finally going somewhere worthwhile!


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## treevet (Sep 27, 2010)

he is really cool. how much do you think he weighs?


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 27, 2010)

Maybe 5lbs.
Jeff


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## flushcut (Sep 27, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> Maybe 5lbs.
> Jeff



Wow, careful fluffy might break the concrete!


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## treevet (Sep 27, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> Maybe 5lbs.
> Jeff



I thought he was one of those huge ones little kids ride on. Someday maybe. You must live right on the beach?

I have seen 50 to 100 lb snapping turtles in our town's creek.


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## Bermie (Sep 27, 2010)

My understanding of turtles and bugs...i.e. salmonella, was that in the days of the rage of 'ninja turtles' people were buying the quarter sized red eared turtles for their kids, and some young'uns tried to eat them...got salmonella...DUH!!!


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## treeclimber101 (Sep 27, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> Try this TV,
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRoxnRWEP6A
> Jeff



I sure as hell wouldn't be giving him all my tasty strawberries , give him some lettuce , thats what a turtle deserves , than a kick in the ### out to the woods ... LOL he's pretty cool


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## pdqdl (Sep 27, 2010)

Every time I see a box turtle, I am reminded of how much our world has changed. When I was young, you would see them all over the highways every spring, getting run over in traffic while they were searching for a mate. 

I do not see that very often anymore. Even their crushed little carcasses on the highway are pretty unusual nowadays.

On the rare occasions that I find a box turtle alive on the road, I stop, pick them up, and transport them somewhere safe away from the highway.


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 27, 2010)

Thats how I found him, in the road. He is a Desert tortoise and burrows underground.
Jeff
Now, what about FTA?


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## TreeTarget (Oct 9, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> My bad, it was 101. Sorry, pessimist.
> Jeff



Is he really, or is it just the hard truth that alot of us have faced? I would love to be an optimist, but it's been pretty tight, lately. I switch off days with the other groundie so we both get hours...and that's not even touching on dealing with all the low-balling and competition (armchair/uninsured and otherwise) around here. Think it will take a bit of time for it all to recover, but that's why we have so many side projects going on.


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## tree MDS (Oct 9, 2010)

What ever happened to these pics we were supposed to see... I'm thinking that pine finished off FTA's desire for the treeworkie?? ... been awfully quiet lately he has..


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## jefflovstrom (Oct 9, 2010)

TreeTarget said:


> Is he really, or is it just the hard truth that alot of us have faced? I would love to be an optimist, but it's been pretty tight, lately. I switch off days with the other groundie so we both get hours...and that's not even touching on dealing with all the low-balling and competition (armchair/uninsured and otherwise) around here. Think it will take a bit of time for it all to recover, but that's why we have so many side projects going on.



You need to look at the 'Big Picture!', 
Jeff


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## TreeTarget (Oct 9, 2010)

Not really into still-art. The picture I am looking at is big enough as it is...and I think the explaination provided was pretty illustrative of alot of the more concerning topics that have been touched upon in this off-topic thread.

Still, regardless of my preferences and (supposedly limited) vision, I would much rather see pictures of the broken or not concrete than debate economics...


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## jefflovstrom (Oct 9, 2010)

OK, what-ever, I could care less. 
Jeff


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## ropensaddle (Oct 10, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> You need to look at the 'Big Picture!',
> Jeff



The big picture ok hmmmmm. I look at it from a different perspective than many but here is the way I see it. Big business is the root of the problem , their persuasion in politics is disinfected in the name of safety. In the end they want only hourly workers and their agenda is obtained by regulating the small entrepreneur out of business by racketeering with CEO /government relationship setting unobtainable expectations on all contractors until only the fat corporate monsters get the pieces of cake. It is greed, un-ethical business practice made to look angelic by labeling it safety regulations. Much of these corporate entities actually have more accidents than their smaller counterparts because hourly employees held up by corporate welfare are not given any participation other than what their superiors allow. In fact the superiors many times are not superior at all and flunked business ethics from conception in their early careers. I was told early in life that crime don't pay but when viewed in the big picture that I am describing it would seem it pays big dividends. CEO/politicians are not the low paid individuals yet are much of the time involved in un-ethical un-lawful behaviors


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## TreeTarget (Oct 10, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> The big picture ok hmmmmm. I look at it from a different perspective than many but here is the way I see it. Big business is the root of the problem , their persuasion in politics is disinfected in the name of safety. In the end they want only hourly workers and their agenda is obtained by regulating the small entrepreneur out of business by racketeering with CEO /government relationship setting unobtainable expectations on all contractors until only the fat corporate monsters get the pieces of cake. It is greed, un-ethical business practice made to look angelic by labeling it safety regulations. Much of these corporate entities actually have more accidents than their smaller counterparts because hourly employees held up by corporate welfare are not given any participation other than what their superiors allow. In fact the superiors many times are not superior at all and flunked business ethics from conception in their early careers. I was told early in life that crime don't pay but when viewed in the big picture that I am describing it would seem it pays big dividends. CEO/politicians are not the low paid individuals yet are much of the time involved in un-ethical un-lawful behaviors



...LOL...I keep thinking of how many people went to jail, lost everything, and were even killed for "running numbers" in the past. Now we call it LOTTO.


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