# About to buy my first rifle



## ross_scott (Jan 11, 2008)

Tomorrow I am going to be test firing a rifle I am going to be buying she is an old rifle but a damn good one. 

Caliber is .303
Make: Lee Enfield ( i think it may be a MkII) with the military stock cut down to a sporting stock. the bummer part is that the brass butt plate has been replaced with a modern rubber recoil pad. I learned to shoot with one that my father had (I remember the brass butt plate very well but came to love it) and have always said my first rifle has to be an Enfield. will be hunting for some wild pigs during the test firing as it is more worthwhile and not a waste on the ammo.

Good part is the farm I am managing backs on to a forest so I don't need to worry about entering the forest as the hunting season is closed until the roaring season for deer but I can't be prosecuted for hunting the bush line and shooting what comes on my side of the fence if they did i would be saying well tell them pigs and deer to stop wrecking my boundary fence. will try and get a photo tomorrow.


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## clearance (Jan 11, 2008)

Very popular gun here, returning troops must have brought them back, or maybe they were military surplus. A real historical classic, replaced by semi and autos, but it was around for a lot of battles. Kind of like the Kalashnikov is now.


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## ross_scott (Jan 11, 2008)

Yes the old Lee enfield would have alot of stories to tell if it could talk. At least they are now used for hunting for food instead of shooting each other in the head. any way the rifle is going to be here in a few minutes so i better get ready to go for a pig hunt and test fire


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## ross_scott (Jan 12, 2008)

Well I got to see the rifle and she is in fine condition for a rifle built in 1914. And I have decided that I will purchase it

I got to fire some 150gr ammo through it then I tried some 180gr I found that the rifle was more accurate with the 150gr and not too accurate with the 180gr. it has got a tasco world class series scope mounted on the rifle and the guy said that he could not get a decent grouping on the 180gr but had a very good target grouping with the 150gr. didn't see any pigs so I shot a couple of rabbits with it. And before I forget it is the Lee Enfeild SMLE No.3 not a MK2
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Sports/Hunting-shooting/Rifles/photos/a-134861269/p-57109341.htm


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## Steve128 (Jan 12, 2008)

*Enjoy*



ross_scott said:


> Well I got to see the rifle and she is in fine condition for a rifle built in 1914. And I have decided that I will purchase it
> 
> I got to fire some 150gr ammo through it then I tried some 180gr I found that the rifle was more accurate with the 150gr and not too accurate with the 180gr. it has got a tasco world class series scope mounted on the rifle and the guy said that he could not get a decent grouping on the 180gr but had a very good target grouping with the 150gr. didn't see any pigs so I shot a couple of rabbits with it. And before I forget it is the Lee Enfeild SMLE No.3 not a MK2
> http://www.trademe.co.nz/Sports/Hunting-shooting/Rifles/photos/a-134861269/p-57109341.htm




Best of Luck and post pics. Here is some reading for U http://www.african-hunter.com/303_rifle.htm


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## treebogan (Jan 12, 2008)

Hello Ross

Nice to hear from another lover of the .303!I shot my first Deer with one when I was 12,mine is made in 1916 and still has the original military woodwork,needless to say no scope.

Since the wood has already been cut down,I suggest making a cheek rest for the stock.I will make it far more comfortable to shoot since your eye will be more inline with the scope.You can experiment with the required hight by taping some foam rubber to the top of the stock and securing this with Duct tape.Give it a go Ross.


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## ross_scott (Jan 12, 2008)

Yes I was thinking of getting a gunsmith to put a cheek rest on the butt or even better I will keep a watch on the local auction site aswell as ebay for a butt that came off the SMLE sniper rifle as this already has the cheek rest on the butt.

The photo that is on the auction site where I got it from does this rifle no justice as she is one of the best looked after SMLE rifles I have ever seen


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## ross_scott (Jan 12, 2008)

Steve128 said:


> Best of Luck and post pics. Here is some reading for U http://www.african-hunter.com/303_rifle.htm



thanks for the link Steve reading it right now. Once I get the rifle out for a good hunt I will be taking some pics of it with my first deer or pig (hopefully this will happen when I get my next lot of days off)


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## Austin1 (Jan 12, 2008)

*.303*

Every Canadian my age and older has used a .303 at one time or another, I imagine it is the same with all commonwealth country's I think they are very under rated guns. The SMLE was a great battle rifle, out living all it competitor's. The p14 made in USA was probably the best of them but a complete different bolt actcion compared to the SMLE. The p14,was based on the same Action as the 17 enfeild as known to Americans. A p14 can be coveted over to modern Magnum Calibers So can a p17. The p14 and Enfeild in 30/06 were basically bad over weight copies of a Mauser/98 But Strong and good gun's.Except for the cock on closing part. The SMLE has a single locking Rear locking lug that's it's down fall. But some have been Converted by the British and Canadian Armed Forces to take the .308 or 7.62 NATO I wonder what brass life is like? I imagine they did the same in NZ.As with all war time guns those made during the heat of battle were not as good as those in Quiet times lol. One cool function of the SMLE was you could change head-space on the gun by changing bolt heads I think but not sure they went up in .003 increments 0-4, I am getting old and cant remember all this stuff!0 being 0 and 4 being .012 longer.Enjoy that gun of yours many a moose up here has been shot by one.
P.S the Springfield was also a bad copy of a Mauser. Now the Gerand that was a gun! Did you know the Gerand was invented by a Canuck!


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## windthrown (Jan 12, 2008)

ross_scott said:


> Tomorrow I am going to be test firing a rifle I am going to be buying she is an old rifle but a damn good one.
> 
> Caliber is .303
> Make: Lee Enfield ( i think it may be a MkII) with the military stock cut down to a sporting stock. the bummer part is that the brass butt plate has been replaced with a modern rubber recoil pad. I learned to shoot with one that my father had (I remember the brass butt plate very well but came to love it) and have always said my first rifle has to be an Enfield.




Well, I have one that is about as old as I am (late 50's model), and I rarely shoot it because of the brass plate is too hard on my shoulder. I have one if you wanna swap it for that rubber recoil pad. .303 is not the easiest ammo to get either. I use the 30-30 most of the time here, or the AR for small stuff. I would shoot any pigs I see here, but fortunately there are none (except down in the barn and in the freezer). I could shoot a hundred white tail deer here a year, and a dozen elk. No challange to that though (open living room window, shoot, close window, calm screaming GF and barking dogs down), and no freezer space left. I may have to start shooting elk though. We have 16 or so destroying the new tree plantings lately.


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## ross_scott (Jan 12, 2008)

Over here in New Zealand .303 British ammo is easy to get and is slightly cheaper than other calibers. the main centrefire calibers used over here is the .303, .308 (7.62nato), 7mm-08, .243, .270, .222, 3030, 3006, and then the mauser range of calibers.

And I won't swap the rubber recoil pad for a brass one it has added to the length of the rifle and I love it as I don't feel so bunched up while holding it


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## ross_scott (Jan 15, 2008)

This is unbelievable I told the guy I would have the money to pay him in a couple of days time and the jerk went and sold it after we had made a deal without telling me. I am so hell pissed at the guy at the moment but I will carry on looking for another mint condition SMLE


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## treebogan (Jan 15, 2008)

Ross

Sad to hear your Rifle got sold out from under you.There are heaps of them on Trademe,yes,thats right I'm a kiwi too.
My advise is to call up some gunsmiths in your area and ask if they have a decent sporterised .303.Most gunsmiths can't break them down fast for parts anymore as there is not much demand.You'll end up paying TM prices for the Rifle as thats about the only place you can sell them these days.
Buying off a gunsmith will also ensure that the barrel isn't completely rooted (not used that word for a while) and the headspace is ok.
Forget about finding a stock off a NO4T (sniper model) many .303's had after market stocks attached that had Monte Carlo cheek peices.Also buying off a gunsmith he can tell if the scope mounts have been attached propperly,there is a bridge between the receiver ring and the charging slot that is usually screwed on,but ham fisted farmers welded them on and did all sorts of weird things to make them stick.End result was that they were off center at best,angled forward or back or any variation there off.
If your heart is set on a MKIII fair enough,but the MK4 is also a good rifle so you have a bit of choice.
I estimate you'd not have to call more than a couple of gunsmiths or put an add on here.
www.imas.co.nz


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## ross_scott (Jan 15, 2008)

treebogan said:


> Ross
> 
> Sad to hear your Rifle got sold out from under you.There are heaps of them on Trademe,yes,thats right I'm a kiwi too.
> My advise is to call up some gunsmiths in your area and ask if they have a decent sporterised .303.Most gunsmiths can't break them down fast for parts anymore as there is not much demand.You'll end up paying TM prices for the Rifle as thats about the only place you can sell them these days.
> ...



Not going to deal with those twats on trademe anymore they just like to piss you around and double deal. I may have found another .303 will hopefully get to look at it on friday or saturday this one is through a sports store so while I am there I may aswell buy a pee shooter (norinco .22LR). the .303 may not be an Enfield but any other brand will have to do (I am just a Lee enfield nut).


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## windthrown (Jan 15, 2008)

ross_scott said:


> This is unbelievable I told the guy I would have the money to pay him in a couple of days time and the jerk went and sold it after we had made a deal without telling me. I am so hell pissed at the guy at the moment but I will carry on looking for another mint condition SMLE



You mean there are jerkazoids there in NZ like here in the states? Gads... and I was looking into emigrating to NZ once. I even had the *points* to do it. 

I got my Enfield at Big5 (sporting goods chain here in the states) for less than $100 when they had a truckload of them on sale about 8 years ago. Got a nice clean example that was maybe shot 3 times. Perfect stock, peep site and all the gadgets. Even got the bayonette for it. Shot a few boxes of ammo through it at the range. Never hunted with it. SawTroll says that they have dropped more elephants than any other rifle. I think that may heve been more recently eclipsed with the AK-47 in Africa, but how would we ever know? Big game hunting, the Enfield .303 certainly has the record. 

But here in the states, .303 is not an easy ammo size to get. 30.06 is the most common 30 cal. in the US by far. That is because of the M1, which was originally designed to shoot a 30-30 shell, but was changed becasue of a huge US military inventory of WWI 30.06 ammo before WWII. M1s used to go for $5 in Portland surplus stores when I was a kid. Portland and Seattle were dumping grounds for a lot of Korean and Vietnam war military surplus. Jeeps, M1s, helmets, etc. My dad bought me a WWII helmet when I was 4. My mom went nuts. Wish I still had that; she threw it out in '66 when we moved to California.


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## treebogan (Jan 16, 2008)

ross_scott said:


> the .303 may not be an Enfield but any other brand will have to do (I am just a Lee enfield nut).



Ross

The name Lee Enfeild just the second name of the action designer Mr Lee and the place that they were first produced Enfeild.The rifles have been made in Canada,Australia (Lithgo)Ireland(Fazarkerly)India(Ishapore)USA(Savage manufacture) and likely twice as many other places as that again.

SMLE means "short magazine Lee Enfeild.

Buy smart when buying from a sports shop,there are alot of shagged .303's out there.Mostly the barrels are rusted out because of the Military cartridges that used to be mainly fired.These has a chemical in the primer that would produce an amount of salt when fired,unless the barrel was washed out with WATER shortly after firing(few were) the salt would rust up the barrel.

I really can't stress enough the advantage of buying off a gunsmith in your case.

Did you win the auction and then not have the money to pay?I see the Rifle is relisted.


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## ross_scott (Jan 16, 2008)

treebogan said:


> Ross
> 
> The name Lee Enfeild just the second name of the action designer Mr Lee and the place that they were first produced Enfeild.The rifles have been made in Canada,Australia (Lithgo)Ireland(Fazarkerly)India(Ishapore)USA(Savage manufacture) and likely twice as many other places as that again.
> 
> ...



Yes the guy relisted it. And I did have the money to pay I left him a note on that auction and funnily enough he emailed an apology to me while I was milking the cows and he rang me tonight shortly after I got home. he said he still wants to do the deal so money is being transferred to his bank and he has withdrawn the auction as he admitted on the phone it is an error on his part. only thing I have requested of him was to remove the scope and its mounts as I honestly prefer the open sights than a scope as I have trouble looking through a scope and can not get a good aim due to the fact I wear glasses. I have done more head shots with open sights and not one with a scope.


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## ross_scott (Jan 16, 2008)

Oh and I must stress there was no winning bid on the auction as he left me his mobile phone number in the answer to a question I originally asked him so the deal was outside of the auction site after the original auction had finished.


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## Austin1 (Jan 16, 2008)

treebogan said:


> Ross
> 
> The name Lee Enfeild just the second name of the action designer Mr Lee and the place that they were first produced Enfeild.The rifles have been made in Canada,Australia (Lithgo)Ireland(Fazarkerly)India(Ishapore)USA(Savage manufacture) and likely twice as many other places as that again.
> 
> ...


+1 good info that Cordite burned hot!
P.S I am partial to the #5 Jungle carbines made in Austraila


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## ross_scott (Jan 16, 2008)

Austin1 said:


> +1 good info that Cordite burned hot!
> P.S I am partial to the #5 Jungle carbines made in Austraila



Was talking to a friend of my fathers(hadn't seen or spoke to him for 20 years) last night who is one of NZ's top gunsmiths and we were talking about the .303 he was saying that after all the army surplus .303 ammo stopped getting sold his influx of work on .303's slowed down to a small rate as he used to strip and boil the barrels and anything else that came into contact with cordite residues as it also produced salt and caused barrels to corrode so he was glad when .303 ammo came out with gun powder instead of cordite sticks. and as an added bonus I have a single barreled 12g shotgun waiting for me at his house which I found out my dad had left there before he passed away and I had forgotten all about it so he is cleaning it up and replacing anything that needs replacing for free.


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## treebogan (Jan 17, 2008)

Sounds like your sorted then Ross!

If open sights are your thing,then thats the best plan.
You might have a harder time targeting game early morning or late evening and open sights are generally hopeless if your spotlighting.

TM can be a funny bunch of buggers.I was home Xmas before last,listed a Rifle for sale in excellent condition (it was 30years old and had fired as many shots).Next thing the guy who bought it is burning my ear off on the phone,he sayes that if I don't refund his money he's going to a lawyer etc...
Reason?
Two match head sized staines inside the trigger guard!
I relisted it and it sold the second time for more than the first anyway.


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