# Faller Certification costs in your area?



## SRT-Tech (Jan 18, 2007)

just curious as to what people are paying to be certified as a faller, in your respective locations??

here in BC it now costs $9000 (Malaspina College), plus two taxes, plus supplies, plus living/food expenses while on the course, plus you have to work an additional year with a logging company, plus the Worksafe BC exam fees (aprrox $300). Works out to around $15000 (CDN) with all expenses (fuel or bus fare, food, living arrangements, course fees, supplies, taxes ect ect etc etc etc)  

there was a 'grandfather" clause, but that has now expired, although current fallers can simply challenge the exam..._but for people new to the industry its just brutal the amount of money that is required._ Also there is only one location to take the course, it means picking up and moving up for up to a year, with no gaurantee of a job afterwards.

curious what the rest of the globe pays??


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## sILlogger (Jan 19, 2007)

*illinois*

here in illinois a no certification is required, i have worked for several outfits and never have had to have anything, the only thing that we have to have is on government and mine property workers have to take 3 days of safety classes and a one day refresher course each year, i think it costs $125 or 150. these classes are a joke because most of the people that teach them have never worked in the woods, but that is an entire other story. but no faller certification is required


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## smokechase II (Jan 19, 2007)

*certification fees*

Well, that's a way to stop logging I hadn't thought of.

Perhaps a special logger tax on every saw purchased and logger gas tax and why not? *a logger beer tax*.

If you have to be rich to be a logger, pretty soon it'll be like tennis, sailing and golf. Only the privileged few.

Down the Coast, in Oregon, no certification required nor taxes applied.
We do treat our loggers like doggie do do in the press. 
Hurts their self esteem. Poor souls.

I realize that this isn't that funny so I'll just shut up.


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## Rick Alger (Jan 19, 2007)

In NH we have a voluntary certification program. Four courses at $75.00 each. After you're certified, you have to continue taking courses at a rate of around one or two a year.


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## Logger's Wife (Jan 19, 2007)

Actually the Faller Certification course here in BC has generally be considered a positive move. My dad is a faller so I've heard a lot about it.

It is expensive to take the course, but no more expensive then going to University/College or a Trade school to become skilled in another job. Many of the fallers here welcomed it as it gives them something to go to employers with to demand better wages. Fallers aren't making much more now then they were in the 80s. Also, it hopefully will help with the injury/fatality rate in the industry. I grew up in a small logging town and over half of the guys I went to school with who became loggers are dead or disabled.


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## SRT-Tech (Jan 19, 2007)

oh i agree that the course was much needed....BC had a VERY high death rate in the woods......its just impossible for many of us who are considering a move in that direction (forestry/faller etc), to afford it. Thats more than a years wage (after taxes) for me. For a person that cannot get a student loan, and has 20 bucks in his pocket, it prevents myself and a lot of people I think from being able to do that kind of work. 

I got buddies that did'nt pay that much (75% less in fact) for 4 years of trade school.....If i took the Fallers course, i would still ahve to fork out another $10,000 plus on top of the $9,000 (plus anohter $5000 for expenses (living) for the forestry and silviculture courses...who can honestly say they can afford that? NO ONE.


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## Logger's Wife (Jan 21, 2007)

While I understand what you are saying about affordibility, most serious careers these days require some sort of education and that costs money. Lots of it.

Part of the problem with the logging industry IS that just anyone can walk into it with little to no experience if they have someone willing to break them in. Problem is, who's to say that the person breaking them is a good faller? Luck of the draw. 

Most people have to put some kind of investment into their careers - whether it's money or time. If a person is unwilling or unable to do so then perhps that's not the job for them. Usually if a person is committed enough they can make it work. Point in case - those falling certification courses are full, so it doesn't seem to be stopping people from entering the industry, just like spending 75,000 - 100,000 grand to become a doctor or lawyer doesn't stop people from doing that. It's all choices.


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## SRT-Tech (Jan 21, 2007)

great Post LW, and i get what your saying. I'm just a bit overwhelmed with the costs, thats all..... I'm branching out into other areas of chainsaw use as a result. (namely milling timbers , log salvage etc)


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## Gologit (Jan 21, 2007)

Don't look at it as an expense. Look at it as an investment in your future. And if you don't do it will there come a day, somewhere down the line, when you'll be wishing you had?


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## BC_Logger (Jan 22, 2007)

yes it cost a lot of money but those with the experience could challenge the test or were grandfathered In. This process helped remove some people from the industry who should not of been there for certain reasons :greenchainsaw: 

in production logging there is no room for mistakes


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## TimberPig (Jan 24, 2007)

The intent behind the new faller certification program is to ensure only qualified fallers are cutting. By ensuring that all active, certified fallers meet the same standard, they can weed out the unsafe guys, and ensure new fallers are adequately trained. This standard was developed by fallers for fallers, based upon known safe working practices.

The unfortunate side affect is that at present, it has greatly increased the cost of training new fallers. This is mostly due to it being new and under implementation. The plan over the next few years as I understand it, is to get away from this current centralized, costly training program, once a network of qualified instructors has been built back up. Once that has happened, the intent is for industry to train their own fallers locally, at much lower cost. Until that happens, it certainly is a disincentive to becoming a faller here.


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## SRT-Tech (Jan 24, 2007)

TimberPig said:


> The intent behind the new faller certification program is to ensure only qualified fallers are cutting. By ensuring that all active, certified fallers meet the same standard, they can weed out the unsafe guys, and ensure new fallers are adequately trained. This standard was developed by fallers for fallers, based upon known safe working practices.
> 
> The unfortunate side affect is that at present, it has greatly increased the cost of training new fallers. This is mostly due to it being new and under implementation. The plan over the next few years as I understand it, is to get away from this current centralized, costly training program, once a network of qualified instructors has been built back up. Once that has happened, the intent is for industry to train their own fallers locally, at much lower cost. Until that happens, it certainly is a disincentive to becoming a faller here.



and i FULLY APPLAUD the move to do this!. Its not the program, i would LOVE to take it, its the COST that floors me. I cant afford a years wage for school, heck i cant afford to put gas in my truck...lol


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## redwood logger (Jan 24, 2007)

*Wow That's Crazy*

Out here in CA there is no certification B.S., you work your way up the ranks starting out as a choker setter, after years of learning the trade ,while making money to support your family you might get a chance to break in cutting! If I had to spend thousands and go to school I would do it to learn a more lucrative trade! Around here you can't get people to even apply for logging jobs, because the younger generations are to lazy! If we make it more difficult to work in the woods we might as well bag it! At least we would'nt have so many work related injuries if we were all on welfare!

JUST THE OPINION OF ONE DIRT EATING LOGGER!!!!!


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## SRT-Tech (Jan 24, 2007)

meybe i should marry a hot American girl and work down there!


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## parrisw (Jan 24, 2007)

After your fork out the dollars for this course, what kind of money can you make as a faller in BC? I am a certified Auto mechanic, and it cost me far less than this to become cerfified. In fact it only cost the price of books for shcool, and some lost wages when I was in school, it was goverment sponsered when I did it, now it has changed, and they have pretty much got rid of the Government Apprentice program.


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## TimberPig (Jan 24, 2007)

parrisw said:


> After your fork out the dollars for this course, what kind of money can you make as a faller in BC? I am a certified Auto mechanic, and it cost me far less than this to become cerfified. In fact it only cost the price of books for shcool, and some lost wages when I was in school, it was goverment sponsered when I did it, now it has changed, and they have pretty much got rid of the Government Apprentice program.



Roughly $60/hr.

In the neighbourhood of $360-$400/ day. 6 or 6.5 hr work day (legislated by WCB, that fallers can only be engaged in active falling including breaks, fuel stops etc for 6 hrs/day). Then there's the factor that many do not work 12 months of the year.

Fallers can make very good money when they're working, but with the cost to get in, the dangerous nature of the job, and the potential volatility of the industry right now, it's going to become tough to find fallers here.

The new certification standard and uniform training requirements are a good thing, the cost and the centralization that requires new fallers to uproot for a year, is not conducive to recruiting new fallers though.


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## parrisw (Jan 25, 2007)

Yes I agree, kinda hard to shell out that kind of $$$ and then have to move away for a year, although Im not too far from malaspina college, about 1hr 45min drive on a good day. But Im not interested in becomming a faller, since I am already certified in one trade. I would of liked to be involved in the forestry trade but never got into it, some of my family was heavily involved in the forestry trade on Vancouver Island.


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## timberbeast (Jan 29, 2007)

*Certification B.S.*

Thank God there is still some common sense in the Alaska Logging industry. A faller is hired on the basis of what he can actually do, as opposed to wiping his a___ with some certificate! I've seen "greenies" come up here that lied about their experience, and after 1 day are sent on the next plane out of camp. The Bullbuck watches you the first day - and instantly it is apparent whether you know what you're doing or not. Currently, I have so many da__ certificates I don't know what to do with. Bum fodder, I guess... John Paul Ghetty stated back in the 60's that there would come a day that we would need a certificate to blow our nose. I guess he was right! What happened to common sense?


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## redwood logger (Jan 29, 2007)

*Well Put Timber Beast*

Very well put indeed, Timber beast. People dont understand how it is out in the woods with real loggers, they are tough and crude, a special breed of man that sometimes cant fit in a normal society work place! The kind guys that close down the bar friday night and still show up on time to bust their [email protected]# all day on saturday hung over! Real loggers (that don't need certification!) are a dying breed!

"IF LOGGING WAS EASY THERE WOULD BE A BUNCH OF WOMEN AND KIDS OUT HERE DOING IT"


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## BC_Logger (Jan 29, 2007)

then by all means come up to BC and try your hand at falling 60 inch + trees on a 30 to 60+ degree slope 

this is why we have a course to train our current and future fallers 



quote red wood 

they are tough and crude, a special breed of man that sometimes cant fit in a normal society work place! The kind guys that close down the bar friday night and still show up on time to bust their [email protected]# all day on saturday hung over! Real loggers (that don't need certification!) are a dying breed!

only in your part of the world red wood


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## smokechase II (Jan 30, 2007)

*rookies*

Look, if you can handle yourself in the woods, passing a written test and field test is no big deal.

Simple system:
Education
Testing
Certification
Bull Buck STILL fires you if you ain't got it.

The reason for the testing is to lower, not raise , injury rates.

There isn't a problem here except costs. Actually, when compared with workmans comp .......
If your outfit has never had a fatality or serious injury, OK, you've got an argument the other way.

If you've had a new guy show up and he was all educated but didn't have any woods skills and got hisself hurt or was breaking up timber.

FIRE THE BULL BUCK and the new guy. I agree with "The Bullbuck watches you the first day - and instantly it is apparent whether you know what you're doing or not." In most instances you can watch a guy 15 minutes and have him figured out.


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## data logger (Jan 31, 2007)

*west coast logging*

It was a locus of crazy,wild industrial activity,a business carried on by shouting young men with nails in their boot soles,who traveled like smoke among crashing trees,dancing in a mechanical ballet whose accompaniment was the shrill music of shrieking steam whistles and the chugging of powerful engines.Civilization never before saw the likes of west coast logging.Only war compares to it. (old west coast logger)


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## Tree Sling'r (Feb 1, 2007)

BC_Logger said:


> then by all means come up to BC and try your hand at falling 60 inch + trees on a 30 to 60+ degree slope
> 
> this is why we have a course to train our current and future fallers
> 
> ...



Timberfalling is no different down here. Big and steep. It's cool to love your country and its way's - but just because YOUR COUNTRY makes you have a CERTIFICATE does not mean you or your wood is any better. 
C'mon down to N. Cali. and I'll show exactly what I am talking about.


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## redwood logger (Feb 1, 2007)

*B.C. logging*

Wow! Randy, aggresive opinion! I love it though! I could'nt put it any better than that! As for those 60+ inch trees, I've had to spend a couple of hours in my climbing spurs hanging blocks and riggin up in trees like that! (with no certificate) After that, falling one, on any ground seems so easy you feel guilty getting paid for it! Some day I hope to get up to B.C. some day and check things out, after all i'm half Canadian! not to mention my favorite old saws were built there!


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## BC_Logger (Feb 2, 2007)

Tree Sling'r said:


> Timberfalling is no different down here. Big and steep. It's cool to love your country and its way's - but just because YOUR COUNTRY makes you have a CERTIFICATE does not mean you or your wood is any better.
> C'mon down to N. Cali. and I'll show exactly what I am talking about.



I apologize 
I should have worded it differently 


this is basically what I was trying to say 

TREE DIAMETER
up to 20” = level 1
up to 28” = level 2
up to 36” = level 3
up to 60” = level 4
over 60” = level 5
DEGREE OF SLOPE
up to 30% = level A
up to 60% = level B
60% and over = level C
Examples:
If a participant falls & bucks trees up to 20” diameter on a
slope 30% or less, the qualification level awarded is 1A
If a participant falls & bucks trees up to 36” diameter on a
slope up to 60%, the qualification level awarded is 3B
If a participant falls & bucks trees over 60” diameter on a
slope greater than 60%, the qualification level awarded is 5C

my little sarcastic "only in your world '' didn't come across as a joke so I will extend a apology to redwood , the logging that happens from Alaska through BC and down to California is no different.


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## BC_Logger (Feb 2, 2007)

hey Randy no worries  

heres a good example of a typical logging crew going at each others necks but at the end of the day its all good.

enemy's in the morning and buddys at the end of the day


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