# Different felling cuts and their uses.



## KiwiBro (Jul 18, 2011)

Hi everyone.
Is there a reference somewhere that details the various cuts and what each is best suited for? I could google but figure someone in here might have already stumbled upon something they know is easy to follow and covers most bases. Thanks in advance.


----------



## 2dogs (Jul 19, 2011)

The slopping backcut and a short wedge. Are there more methods?


----------



## lfnh (Jul 19, 2011)

2dogs said:


> The slopping backcut and a short used blue wedge. Are there more methods?


 
fixed it


----------



## 2dogs (Jul 19, 2011)

I think we both also used the secret smartazz method but we don't pass that along without a secret handshake.


----------



## KiwiBro (Jul 19, 2011)

It's no secret. The whisky backhander undercut is old news and so passée these days. Almost as much as non-constructive mocking. I would like to think constructive mocking is making a comeback.


----------



## 2dogs (Jul 19, 2011)

Ok fine. It is a little hard to type while hanging my head in shame but I'll do it for you. There are so many proven methods even a book like Dent's or Beranek's can really only give an overview. Still I recommend both books. Applying what you read is the hard part. An experienced faller is your best source.

I should have stated the obvious, I use a gunning cut, a Humboldt, and backcut 99% of the time. These three cuts go in fast and they work. Simple is best. The most common technique I add is to cut the corners.


----------



## lfnh (Jul 19, 2011)

Here's one online.

Not anywhere near depth of 2dogs references/

OSHA has an online logging ebook.


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC (Jul 19, 2011)

*Felling Style*

Well you just asked a question that is dangerous The way to fall a tree can very different from left coast to right coast and north to down south  It will depend on species of timber,dead wood and or green wood. Also the face cut depends on the end use of the tree,merch timber versus firewood.So like any one learning is a three step proceeds,study and then have some one show the basics of tree falling and then practice it till you are to old to lift a saw:msp_thumbup:


----------



## 2dogs (Jul 19, 2011)

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> Well you just asked a question that is dangerous The way to fall a tree can very different from left coast to right coast and north to down south  It will depend on species of timber,dead wood and or green wood. Also the face cut depends on the end use of the tree,merch timber versus firewood.So like any one learning is a three step proceeds,study and then have some one show the basics of tree falling and then practice it till you are to old to lift a saw:msp_thumbup:


 
Yep.


----------



## 056 kid (Jul 19, 2011)

I just puta kirf in one side, pop a chip out, and then hit the back and hope the tree falls in the right direction.


----------



## hammerlogging (Jul 19, 2011)

056 kid said:


> I just puta kirf in one side, pop a chip out, and then hit the back and hope the tree falls in the right direction.




you local round here?

smartass.


----------



## Johny Utah (Jul 19, 2011)

The guy asked for help for Christ sake. I'm sure you guys weren't born knowing everything. Yes it's a redundant topic but so is talking about politics.


----------



## Oldtimer (Jul 19, 2011)

Ha. I cut a notch 1/3 the way in, side cut each side in about 2", then back cut whilst hanging whichever side to steer if it wants it.. I bore the heart out of the hardwood logs also..

The biggest thing you need to remember about cutting down a tree is the strongest wood is in the lowest part, right down in the duff and dirt. Small wood it don't matter too much. BIG wood it matters if you want it to go a certain place on the ground.

Around here any other way is simply someone doing what the internets or a "schooled" wannabe told them to do.


----------



## paccity (Jul 19, 2011)

just havin some fun . it's all good , with out hands on instruction the best answers have ben said. you can read a book all day and prob nott pic it up proporly . i could tell someone how to fall a tree but i dos'nt meen that it will fall where it sould . so go have some fun.


----------



## madhatte (Jul 19, 2011)

I'm no pro, but I can say with confidence that there's no "one-size-fits-all" approach to putting stuff on the ground. Seems to me that the most important thing in falling any tree is to have a solid plan beforehand -- a pre-prepared work area, escape routes, intended direction of lay, etc -- and the rest is nuance determined by local policy, tree species, tree condition, weather, and all 2356 other factors that need to be considered. 

Oh, and fer crapsake, LOOK UP!


----------



## bitzer (Jul 19, 2011)

Experience


----------



## GRTimberCO (Jul 19, 2011)

Ok, I've got a question for the big dogs on here. 

As I said in another lately, since it is 100 degrees and my back is on the mend I've been catching up on my Ax Men lately. In one of the episodes where the crew is doing a bunch of falling they were pre cutting 5 or 8 then felling another one on the stand and sending them down likes dominos. How are they cutting those and leaving them standing in a way that they aren't a pretty big safety hazard in the mean time?


----------



## 2dogs (Jul 19, 2011)

GRTimberCO said:


> Ok, I've got a question for the big dogs on here.
> 
> As I said in another lately, since it is 100 degrees and my back is on the mend I've been catching up on my Ax Men lately. In one of the episodes where the crew is doing a bunch of falling they were pre cutting 5 or 8 then felling another one on the stand and sending them down likes dominos. How are they cutting those and leaving them standing in a way that they aren't a pretty big safety hazard in the mean time?


 
Dominoe falling "can" be the safest procedure when conditions demand it. Limb locked, broken off the stump, hangers, can be some of those conditions where dominoe falling is a valid technique. BUT it can be very dangerous! I think on Axe Men it is just showing off. The company I work for does not allow it and I think it may be banned by OSHA.

Like many other techniques it can be desribed here but should not used without proper instruction.

I was checking out a new sawyer (amateur) at his request when we founf some broken off trees. I made small face cuts in two trees and dominoed them with a larger tree. I fully explained my reasoning but I was uncomfortable even showing it.


----------



## David (saltas) (Jul 19, 2011)

playing domino's with trees is showing off and of course it is risky

[video]http://www.youtube.com/user/mattward74?ytsession=ax4llkjwdah4nux60s-d9z3dVkTQ0FJUdvxZHNzvRdbz2obd1YBZD-W8QLQ8-3hvYnuoKcq3qDtMiSFb1RRWbXdLRftDgLmL-d18Tse_IhJZP3h8KoPdxmrwsdjIQVii4rPMD6WeilpClktVRRPXKnO0EtDIjLCKzj9iDsOqoYauZy3cnkQAgfkszNuyRjSjTi3De xMx-ILQjP2zwGDJlFMAHND1IG1M8YWfxOcqV8t3Jf8-DaFUKNPGhFN3Fd0EUL4BzC70mm9U9oOyxUK55Ih_WmlhsywWECsUpI6fPLM#p/u/45/zTryU_lE4cg[/video]


----------



## Johny Utah (Jul 19, 2011)

saltas said:


> playing domino's with trees is showing off and of course it is risky
> 
> [video]http://www.youtube.com/user/mattward74?ytsession=ax4llkjwdah4nux60s-d9z3dVkTQ0FJUdvxZHNzvRdbz2obd1YBZD-W8QLQ8-3hvYnuoKcq3qDtMiSFb1RRWbXdLRftDgLmL-d18Tse_IhJZP3h8KoPdxmrwsdjIQVii4rPMD6WeilpClktVRRPXKnO0EtDIjLCKzj9iDsOqoYauZy3cnkQAgfkszNuyRjSjTi3De xMx-ILQjP2zwGDJlFMAHND1IG1M8YWfxOcqV8t3Jf8-DaFUKNPGhFN3Fd0EUL4BzC70mm9U9oOyxUK55Ih_WmlhsywWECsUpI6fPLM#p/u/45/zTryU_lE4cg[/video]


 
That was a cool vid. Terrible to see nice trees like that cut down.


----------



## Gologit (Jul 20, 2011)

Johny Utah said:


> That was a cool vid. Terrible to see nice trees like that cut down.


 
:monkey:


----------



## dave k (Jul 20, 2011)

That is our AS member MCW in the video. Just looked back at this and should have added that it is a long term job he is doing and Im sure he was being careful !! Thread "Todays Job" gives all the info.


----------



## Sport Faller (Jul 20, 2011)

Gologit said:


> :monkey:


 
I think we found the mole, need to have the mods change his name to wavy gravy or flower rainbow bear so people know before hand


----------



## Samlock (Jul 20, 2011)

madhatte said:


> I'm no pro, but I can say with confidence that there's no "one-size-fits-all" approach to putting stuff on the ground. Seems to me that the most important thing in falling any tree is to have a solid plan beforehand -- a pre-prepared work area, escape routes, intended direction of lay, etc -- and the rest is nuance determined by local policy, tree species, tree condition, weather, and all 2356 other factors that need to be considered.
> 
> Oh, and fer crapsake, LOOK UP!



Agreed. The fine thing about felling is that the basics of it can be adopted by any average idiot in few hours, but a lifetime is too short to get all the finesses.

I do conventional faces 98 per cent. That's because the local short stumping convention. To me humboldt is for cutting the special timber: poles and extra fine quality birch butt logs. 

The back cuts vary a bit more.


----------



## 056 kid (Jul 20, 2011)

hammerlogging said:


> you local round here?
> 
> smartass.


 
You bet..


----------



## promac850 (Jul 20, 2011)

OP (KiwiBro), just out of curiosity, do you look like this?


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC (Jul 20, 2011)

*Falling Style*

Figure out what works best for you then practice it :msp_thumbup: Tree falling is like any skill the more you do it the better you get. For most trees in my area the Humbolt is the normal face style.


----------



## dave k (Jul 20, 2011)

HBRN you would do well to practice that which you preach, after watching your vid "Hazard tree clean up" some have some practice to do ! Although what you say to a certian extent is correct, Kiwibro find someone local and watch, ask questions and learn above all be safe and mind from whom you take advice !!


----------



## slowp (Jul 20, 2011)

I am playing gardener today. I have a limby doug that is small, but big enough to hurt or do worse, that needs to come out before it gets bigger. I shall wait until the leaves are off the alders and blackberries,and when I can have some help. It is weighted to the uphill side, and needs to go uphill. So, I am thinking that I will need to get out of the way in case it seesaws on the top of the hill, and pops back down. Correct? opcorn:

I guess I could take a picture but it wouldn't show much--too much brush.


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC (Jul 20, 2011)

slowp said:


> I am playing gardener today. I have a limby doug that is small, but big enough to hurt or do worse, that needs to come out before it gets bigger. I shall wait until the leaves are off the alders and blackberries,and when I can have some help. It is weighted to the uphill side, and needs to go uphill. So, I am thinking that I will need to get out of the way in case it seesaws on the top of the hill, and pops back down. Correct? opcorn:
> 
> I guess I could take a picture but it wouldn't show much--too much brush.


 Well the first step you can do is to limb it up as high as you can. If you can make it a spar pole it will be easier to fell. This is a case for a rope and a common notch.


----------



## lfnh (Jul 20, 2011)

slowp said:


> ...
> 
> Correct? opcorn:


 
what brand of popcorn ? microwave or into the frying pan with oil ? :smile2:


----------



## Sport Faller (Jul 20, 2011)

lfnh said:


> what brand of popcorn ? microwave or into the frying pan with oil ? :smile2:


 
Pishaw, airpop is the only way to get down


----------



## bitzer (Jul 20, 2011)

Learn to read the tree. It will give way to the face. 



Also, when did this become the better homes and gardens forum? The trees must be killed before they take over dammit!


----------



## slowp (Jul 20, 2011)

lfnh said:


> what brand of popcorn ? microwave or into the frying pan with oil ? :smile2:


 
The cheapest I can find and it gets popped in a special microwave bowl thingie. It works good.

I do not think that a rope would be needed on this tree. All the limbs are on the side that it needs to fall to.
However, after looking more today, I am thinking about just whacking the top off and turning it into a short bushy tree. It blocks the view of the neighbors in the winter.


----------



## stihl 440 (Jul 20, 2011)

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> Figure out what works best for you then practice it :msp_thumbup: Tree falling is like any skill the more you do it the better you get. For most trees in my area the Humbolt is the normal face style.


 
Well i just watched your video....and i can say this...i now believe that you actually have the saw you said you did and you can...well...we'll say "pull the trigger" alright. But i dont see anything "PRO" about your cutting style or movements.....and your chain needs attention...badly....it made me feel bad for the saw just watching the video. Maybe your filing needs practicing..i dont really know. But slow down....pay attention to what your doing....that tip will come back at you faster than what you think it will...speed comes after saftey....say alert, stay safe...speed will come along later....as with expirence. Think ahead...plan out what your next move is...this applies to everything...felling, bucking, limbing.....dont think felling is the only dangerous part because all of it can kill you...limbing is more dangerous sometimes if you dont know what to watchout for.....cut the wrong limb off and it'll roll right on you...same with bucking. You just gotta pay attention...its dangerous work...i've seen guys get hurt...it isnt pretty....and gotten my share of cuts and scrapes. At the end of the day if you walk out with all your guys you went in with and you on your own 2 legs and all your limbs...you did ok. And remember there is more than one way to skin a deer....so there is more than one way to cut a tree...with the exception of 45 degree and slopping backcut....thats just a no no all together. Use a wide variety of felling styles and tricks and put them into play WHEN needed....although that may not be all the time. Be accurate with your cuts...start slow and safe....speed comes after saftey. I could talk more but im tired...its been a long HOT day....you get my drift.


----------



## paccity (Jul 20, 2011)

stihl 440 said:


> Well i just watched your video....and i can say this...i now believe that you actually have the saw you said you did and you can...well...we'll say "pull the trigger" alright. But i dont see anything "PRO" about your cutting style or movements.....and your chain needs attention...badly....it made me feel bad for the saw just watching the video. Maybe your filing needs practicing..i dont really know. But slow down....pay attention to what your doing....that tip will come back at you faster than what you think it will...speed comes after saftey....say alert, stay safe...speed will come along later....as with expirence. Think ahead...plan out what your next move is...this applies to everything...felling, bucking, limbing.....dont think felling is the only dangerous part because all of it can kill you...limbing is more dangerous sometimes if you dont know what to watchout for.....cut the wrong limb off and it'll roll right on you...same with bucking. You just gotta pay attention...its dangerous work...i've seen guys get hurt...it isnt pretty....and gotten my share of cuts and scrapes. At the end of the day if you walk out with all your guys you went in with and you on your own 2 legs and all your limbs...you did ok. And remember there is more than one way to skin a deer....so there is more than one way to cut a tree...with the exception of 45 degree and slopping backcut....thats just a no no all together. Use a wide variety of felling styles and tricks and put them into play WHEN needed....although that may not be all the time. Be accurate with your cuts...start slow and safe....speed comes after saftey. I could talk more but im tired...its been a long HOT day....you get my drift.


 
jeez 440, your being awfull nice today. good on ya.


----------



## madhatte (Jul 20, 2011)

Discretion grumble grumble diplomacy grumble grumble


----------



## bitzer (Jul 20, 2011)

Well I just watched the "hazard tree clean up" vid. The best part was at 6:10 when the guy had no idea the log was going to settle. One-handing it and all. I hope you were getting paid by the hour on that one mr. billy. Looked like county work. 

Yes, I know I am an #######.


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC (Jul 20, 2011)

The hazard tree was not a job that was wanted, did to help a friend out. This tree is going to be for fire wood so no big deal on how the cuts look. The owner was more worried about some kid climbing up it and getting hurt. I knew the saw was going to be pinch and that log would roll, that is why I did the tree the way I did.


----------



## bitzer (Jul 20, 2011)

Fine and dandy. You've heard this before but it would be well of you to keep your eyes open and your mouth shut.


----------



## paccity (Jul 20, 2011)

ok?


----------



## paccity (Jul 20, 2011)

not quick enough.


----------



## stihl 440 (Jul 20, 2011)

paccity said:


> jeez 440, your being awfull nice today. good on ya.


 
Well...i usually am..lol...i've said before im a nice guy once you get to know me...lol. I may come off a little strong sometimes...but its all meant for good. Atleast i know no that he actually can pull the trigger on a saw...thats the first step. I admit i had high doubts for him...but i actually seen a video...and actual sawing....thats a start.  Hey maybe i should start using my limit on smiles for each post..LOL:jester: Everybody starts somewhere....i see a start...not a pro.


----------



## lfnh (Jul 20, 2011)

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> Well the first step you can do is to limb it up as high as you can. If you can make it a spar pole it will be easier to fell. This is a case for a rope and a common notch.


 
By "common notch", is that referring to "conventional notch" or is referring to something else ?


where'd he run off too ? i want answers.


----------



## stihl 440 (Jul 20, 2011)

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> The hazard tree was not a job that was wanted, did to help a friend out. This tree is going to be for fire wood so no big deal on how the cuts look. The owner was more worried about some kid climbing up it and getting hurt. I knew the saw was going to be pinch and that log would roll, that is why I did the tree the way I did.


 
Dont think your the best...because thats when your gonna get hurt. Remember...eyes open, ears open...mouth shut...you might just learn something.


----------



## stihl 440 (Jul 20, 2011)

lfnh said:


> By "common notch", is that referring to "conventional notch" or is referring to something else ?


 
Im wondering this as well...but i didnt ask.


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC (Jul 20, 2011)

Common is sloping cut from the top. Different names on different coasts yet the same thing :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## lfnh (Jul 20, 2011)

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> Common is sloping cut from the top. Different names on different coasts yet the same thing :hmm3grin2orange:


 
By this you mean a 45 degree face cut ?


ah, ha. back to the same old... where the heck did he go now ??


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC (Jul 20, 2011)

*Yup*



lfnh said:


> By this you mean a 45 degree face cut ? YES
> 
> 
> ah, ha. back to the same old... where the heck did he go now ??


 



:msp_thumbup:


----------



## Rounder (Jul 20, 2011)

Johny Utah said:


> That was a cool vid. Terrible to see nice trees like that cut down.


 
Nice trees??? Do you have a roof over your head, and/or wipe your ####ing ass?? Jesus ####ing christ! ####ing people. Here I sit with a broken finger, toe, torn knee...........so people can wipe their butt and stay dry.


----------



## wyk (Jul 20, 2011)

mtsamloggit said:


> Nice trees??? Do you have a roof over your head, and/or wipe your ####ing ass?? Jesus ####ing christ! ####ing people. Here I sit with a broken finger, toe, torn knee...........so people can wipe their butt and stay dry.


 
JUtawr was prolly trolling just as hard as Brother-PNW-HBRN for that post, tho...


----------



## lfnh (Jul 20, 2011)

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> :msp_thumbup:


 
Why wouldn't you consider an Open Face or Humboldt or Block face 
for felling up hill ? Just asking...


----------



## Rounder (Jul 20, 2011)

Roma said:


> Damn man! How'd you get busted up?


 
Apologies for the rant. Little out of line there. Had a good wreck yesterday. Should have two broken legs, but I got lucky. Lucky.... for being a dumb ass. Some days I just have a bad attidude, lol.

My apologies, just a little owly lately - Sam. 

-Hope you all are well, stay safe.


----------



## RandyMac (Jul 20, 2011)

No problems here Sam.
Some day you will treasure the little boo-boos as they will remind you of the ones that almost got you.


----------



## Rounder (Jul 20, 2011)

Thanks Randy and Roma.

Back to the original question. As mentioned before, Doug Dent's book is a really good overview of the basics. Easy to understand and the next best thing to packing jugs. 
When I first got started, my future wife actually called him and bought a copy from him. He sent a nice note and signed the book. Good dude. - Sam


----------



## 2dogs (Jul 20, 2011)

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> Well the first step you can do is to limb it up as high as you can. If you can make it a spar pole it will be easier to fell. This is a case for a rope and a common notch.


 
I hope you only make "spar poles" out of little tiny trees you can push over. Big spars are hard to fall. I suppose you know why so I won't bother to explain myself. Have you ever fallen a large spar BTW?

Oh and HBRN you have never answered this but I'll ask again. Is your name Scotty?


----------



## paccity (Jul 20, 2011)

heal up sam, it sucks to hurt.


----------



## slowp (Jul 20, 2011)

paccity said:


> heal up sam, it sucks to hurt.



Yes. And try to heal up properly. Those things do come back to haunt you. Like if I take off for a hike up a trail, I have to carry a roll of ace bandage now for just in case an old thing causes troubles.


----------



## paccity (Jul 20, 2011)

yup, when the years pass by all those hurts will really stove you up.


----------



## Rounder (Jul 20, 2011)

slowp said:


> Yes. And try to heal up properly. Those things do come back to haunt you. Like if I take off for a hike up a trail, I have to carry a roll of ace bandage now for just in case an old thing causes troubles.


 
Thanks, lots of ice and the knee brace at work today seem to be working well. Also been using that "icey hot"?? I think that is what it's called, works good.

Back on topic again, I've heard Jerry Beranek's book is good as well, but I have not read it. I'm sure it is full of good advice though, that man knows his stuff.


----------



## dave k (Jul 21, 2011)

Sam the most important thing is that you are still here to have a rant ! Get well soon


----------



## HILLBILLYREDNEC (Jul 21, 2011)

Well be thank full your still on this earth. My neck injury could have killed me but I cheated the grim reaper that time.


----------



## Gologit (Jul 21, 2011)

mtsamloggit said:


> Thanks, lots of ice and the knee brace at work today seem to be working well. Also been using that "icey hot"?? I think that is what it's called, works good.


 
Okay...but you still haven't told us what you did. C'mon Sam...fess up.


----------



## RandyMac (Jul 21, 2011)

Sam is keeping pretty quite about it.
Makes one wonder.


----------



## Rounder (Jul 21, 2011)

RandyMac said:


> Sam is keeping pretty quite about it.
> Makes one wonder.


 
Everything's good here. Misread some tension. Broke all my own rules and got in a big damn hurry when a tree didn't cooperate. Don't do that!! 
Feeling good this morning. Gotta go, have a good one. Didn't mean to steer the thread off course........That never happens on the F&L forum, right???? -Sam


----------



## RandyMac (Jul 21, 2011)

You sayin' a wee shift of the stem gave you a bit of a tap?


----------



## wyk (Jul 21, 2011)

HILLBILLYREDNEC said:


> Well be thank full your still on this earth. My neck injury could have killed me but I cheated the grim reaper that time.


 
This may not be news to others here, but I suspect you could have more than a simple 'neck injury'...


----------



## Brian13 (Jul 21, 2011)

Hope you heal up quick Sam!!! How is the knee, did it get hit or get twisted? Either way hope it heals back like it should.


----------



## hammerlogging (Jul 21, 2011)

mtsamloggit said:


> Nice trees??? Do you have a roof over your head, and/or wipe your ####ing ass?? Jesus ####ing christ! ####ing people. Here I sit with a broken finger, toe, torn knee...........so people can wipe their butt and stay dry.


 
Interesting how we call this a close call, a wake up call. I think most people would consider this the real deal.

Right back at it, eh? Maybe a chance to rest over the weekend. Maybe a chance to watch the movie I sent you. 

Last 2 days I had a moment to get our next unit laid out, about 70 acres worth of dozer logging in a steep jungle. It sucks when you can't see your flaggging from more than 15 feet away, takes a lot more flagging, and hiking around to make sure I haven't duplicated my roads, getting them too close together, but that the loggers will stil be able to reach everything. Today, that work goes onto paper and into a cute little map. That'll leave some time for a walk in the park with the wife and little one. 

Quite frankly I don't know if I'm more wore out from a day of planning or a day of falling, sure do cover lots of ground.


----------



## Samlock (Jul 21, 2011)

Sam of Montana - I don't know a thing about your job/contract situation, but there is one thing I know: You don't get to work with a broken toe unless you absolutely have no other choice.

Hammer said a good word. Sometimes it's a good idea to lift your foot on the bench and just watch a movie.

Take care.

Sam


----------



## madhatte (Jul 21, 2011)

hammerlogging said:


> It sucks when you can't see your flaggging from more than 15 feet away, takes a lot more flagging, and hiking around to make sure I haven't duplicated my roads, getting them too close together, but that the loggers will stil be able to reach everything. Today, that work goes onto paper and into a cute little map.



I wonder how many guys out there have started using GPS for this kind of work? I started using it on research units for Weyco in 1996, I think, and today am heavily reliant on my accumilated GIS database to keep track of what's done and what yet needs to be done. There's a symposium in Portland this September on using consumer-grade GPS stuff for real GIS work, probably more focused on iPhones than Garmins, but either way, the costs of doing business electronically are going down and the ease of use and time saved are going up. 

Does anybody else here use the high-tech stuff in layout or any other application?


----------



## slowp (Jul 21, 2011)

I had to use a Trimble hand held one in Wisconsin. I couldn't figure out where I was on that flat ground in order to draw things on maps. I just ran it. The brainiac guy did the downloading of photos onto it, and the downloading of the final maps. 

Here, I figured out how to use a regular off the shelf one to *get an azimuth *to take me back from the tail tree to the landing. That was good for laying out skyline corridors. I learned how to do that by going to an AOL meeting in Oregon. 

I highlighted Get An Azimuth because you have to run the actual line with a compass. Loggers did not understand that at first. The + or - 15 feet or whatever is not an acceptable error. You have to take a few clicks on the yarder, and a few on the tailtree and calculate the average azimuth, and that will usually work.


----------



## slowp (Jul 21, 2011)

Samlock said:


> Sam of Montana - I don't know a thing about your job/contract situation, but there is one thing I know: You don't get to work with a broken toe unless you absolutely have no other choice.
> 
> Hammer said a good word. Sometimes it's a good idea to lift your foot on the bench and just watch a movie.
> 
> ...



I had to work with a broken toe. It was quite painful and took a long time to heal. There's nothing to be done for it, except wear sturdy shoes or boots while it is healing, and cuss a lot.


----------



## Samlock (Jul 21, 2011)

slowp said:


> I had to work with a broken toe. It was quite painful and took a long time to heal. There's nothing to be done for it, except wear sturdy shoes or boots while it is healing, and cuss a lot.



Oh my, haven't you heard there about sick leave?

Doc ordered me once 10 days off just because of a dislocated big toe.


----------



## madhatte (Jul 21, 2011)

slowp said:


> I highlighted Get An Azimuth because you have to run the actual line with a compass.



I hear that. One of the programs I use lets you do traverses by feeding the azimuth to the GPS and then displays it as though it had collected the satellite data -- cleans up lousy reception really well, and keeps tolerances way closer than relying on getting a clear shot of the sky under a canopy. With this program you only need GPS points to begin and ens a traverse -- everything in between can be paced or compassed or whatever method you like and are then set as relative to the beginning and ending (opening and closing) points. That's what I wrote that manual for awhile back. Evidently the FS guys are going to use my manual as an actual training guide, so I must have done OK.


----------



## hammerlogging (Jul 21, 2011)

Samlock said:


> Oh my, haven't you heard there about sick leave?
> 
> Doc ordered me once 10 days off just because of a dislocated big toe.



Having that much sense would make us too socialist. Home of the brave. And hardheaded. Most of us are contractors and have zero benefits or the like. And if you do get hurt, and have some sort of workers comp coverage, lets just say it can strain the relationship with the boss. Sensible? No.

Madhatte, I've thought about getting some advice on how to make a GPS work for me better. Quite frankly, in my novice hands, it doesn't seem to be too helpful, nothing more than I can do with just a topo map, sitting at a desk, doing preliminary planning. Little rock outcrops, huge timber, these things will affect where my roads actually go. And like SlowP said, when its time to locate your tower and tailholds, a few feet off can really throw off the whole thing. So, unless you've developed a method of higher accuracy, I don't find it all that helpful. Perhaps I can do my desk planning then use some advanced methods of yours to record where I've gone so that my map accurately shows what I ended up flagging on the ground. Maybe the GPS my boss gave me is just crappy- he's just dieng for me to make use of it cause he bought it and has zero idea of how to actually apply it and wants it to go to good use. I pretend I put it to good use, but I really just use the mapping software it came with to make my cute maps.

I quit a GIS class after about 2 days realizing it was going to put a severe dampening on my intended perfect GPA and plan to get off campus in 2 quick semesters and finish the rest from home. If you need GIS, hire a GIS dude or dudette, I'm in logging.


----------



## slowp (Jul 21, 2011)

Samlock said:


> Oh my, haven't you heard there about sick leave?
> 
> Doc ordered me once 10 days off just because of a dislocated big toe.



A big toe is a different beast. I broke the middle toe. The doctor said, "Wear sturdy shoes, you can go back to work."

I broke it in karate class, and after doing so decided no more karate class.


----------



## bitzer (Jul 21, 2011)

Hey Sam, hope you heal up quick man!



I was sitting around the fire with my old man a few years back. Throwin some whiskey down. He says to me, "Not everyone can do what you do." And I say, "What's that?" Not really sure what he was talking about. "Going out into the woods and cutting trees," he said. "Anyone can sit behind a desk or..." (gets a little blurry around that point for obvious reasons). He eventually ends it with, " I couldn't do that, walk up to a tree and cut it down and put it where you want it. There are so many things that could go wrong." There was more, but I don't recall it. I was doing a lot more saw work for the company that I worked for at the time than I am now. Just before the economy tanked. He was right though. A breed apart.


----------



## forestryworks (Jul 21, 2011)

Oldtimer said:


> Ha. I cut a notch 1/3 the way in, side cut each side in about 2", then back cut whilst hanging whichever side to steer if it wants it.. I bore the heart out of the hardwood logs also..
> 
> The biggest thing you need to remember about cutting down a tree is the strongest wood is in the lowest part, right down in the duff and dirt. Small wood it don't matter too much. BIG wood it matters if you want it to go a certain place on the ground.
> 
> Around here any other way is simply someone doing what the internets or a "schooled" wannabe told them to do.


 
Lots of grain changes down low... I'd trust the straighter grain a little higher up. Cutting in the dirt is for arborists 

The holding wood is strongest in the corners.


----------



## forestryworks (Jul 21, 2011)

Johny Utah said:


> That was a cool vid. Terrible to see nice trees like that cut down.


 
So a seedling can't become a nice tree? :monkey:


----------



## RandyMac (Jul 21, 2011)

....mud to the knees, sawdust in my shirt, sticking to bar oil that drooled down my back...the sting of fresh cable cuts... scents of crushed vegetation, fresh turned earth...that special sense of wariness when you are about to kick a giant in the ankle, adrenaline pounding in the ears as the steel hits the bark... all alone in a cloud of noise, smoke, chips... Mac vibes to the shoulders...rocking on a plank with the pull of the chain... a headsplitting distance to the ground, wishing more time had been spent on the boards...


----------



## Rounder (Jul 21, 2011)

RandyMac said:


> You sayin' a wee shift of the stem gave you a bit of a tap?


 
Bucking in a spot that didn't really give many good options. Could have been avoided though. Easy to say that sitting at home after the fact though, lol. More like getting hit by a bus than a tap. Ended up with my left leg pinned under a few hundred pounds of long butt. After catching it in the chest and bouncing off my knee. Larch are funny trees, no warning. Didn't pop till I cut the last whisker. It was actually a perfectly clean buck, no split or fiber pull. The damn things will sit on the stump, wedged to the hilt, and WILL NOT fall untill there's about a thumbnail's width of holding wood.

Letting myself get in a big hurry was the main cause.

Not sure how I got away with it, nothing broken. 

-Joe, I will get that movie watched, besides, I have a sharp looking Darby Logger Day's tee shirt to send back with it for your wife. 

-Sam


----------



## RandyMac (Jul 21, 2011)

Oh boy Sam!
sounds pretty much like a Madrone butt that rolled over me, a complete surprise and left the imprints of shirt buttons on my thin hide for a day. Some days your best guess is the wrong one.


----------



## Rounder (Jul 21, 2011)

RandyMac said:


> Oh boy Sam!
> sounds pretty much like a Madrone butt that rolled over me, a complete surprise and left the imprints of shirt buttons on my thin hide for a day. Some days your best guess is the wrong one.


 
Yep. 
That Madrone deal doesn't sound like any fun at all.


----------



## stihl 440 (Jul 21, 2011)

bitzer said:


> Hey Sam, hope you heal up quick man!
> 
> 
> 
> I was sitting around the fire with my old man a few years back. Throwin some whiskey down. He says to me, "Not everyone can do what you do." And I say, "What's that?" Not really sure what he was talking about. "Going out into the woods and cutting trees," he said. "Anyone can sit behind a desk or..." (gets a little blurry around that point for obvious reasons). He eventually ends it with, " I couldn't do that, walk up to a tree and cut it down and put it where you want it. There are so many things that could go wrong." There was more, but I don't recall it. I was doing a lot more saw work for the company that I worked for at the time than I am now. Just before the economy tanked. He was right though. A breed apart.


 
My old man told me the same thing some years ago. And your exactly right...we are a different breed. Not sure how or why sometimes..but its definetly true. There is different breeds of that breed too...there are people that cut trees...and then there are people that are born to cut trees. I've had some help with some of the best timber cutters i have ever seen taught me....i have been doing it a long time....but they will always have been doing it longer....but there is still a great level of respect i have for those guys...and will forever...i gaurantee it. And i still currently talk to these guys and it seems like when we get to talkin timber cuttin...i seem to still learn new stuff from them...kinda wild...imo.


----------



## stihl 440 (Jul 21, 2011)

forestryworks said:


> Lots of grain changes down low...
> The holding wood is strongest in the corners.


 
VERY VERY true....


----------



## Johny Utah (Jul 21, 2011)

forestryworks said:


> So a seedling can't become a nice tree? :monkey:



New growth trees are always nice to see, but I am aware of how long it takes trees to grow so I am kind of impatient with their slow progress. We also don't have all the variety of species you guys have in your warmer climate. Trees here take a #### kicken in the winter so only the toughest survive. Trees are not very plentiful on the prairies where I live.


----------



## Johny Utah (Jul 21, 2011)

mtsamloggit said:


> Nice trees??? Do you have a roof over your head, and/or wipe your ####ing ass?? Jesus ####ing christ! ####ing people. Here I sit with a broken finger, toe, torn knee...........so people can wipe their butt and stay dry.


 
What the #### is your problem #######. I cut down trees, I'm not a tree huger. It's not my fault you trashed your body cutting wood for toilet paper. I appreciate nice trees and get pissed when people cut them down for dumb ass reasons. I thought they looked nice, not the type of wood I would harvest for pulp.


----------



## Johny Utah (Jul 21, 2011)

wyk said:


> JUtawr was prolly trolling just as hard as Brother-PNW-HBRN for that post, tho...


 
#### off already you pricks


----------



## Rounder (Jul 21, 2011)

Johny Utah said:


> #### off already you pricks


 
Grow up, get a real job. Everyone and their brother cuts firewood. Go back to the chainsaw forum. You're a waste of air and sunshine. - Sam


----------



## RandyMac (Jul 21, 2011)

This message is hidden because Johny ******* is on your ignore list. 
View Post


----------



## Johny Utah (Jul 21, 2011)

mtsamloggit said:


> Grow up, get a real job. Everyone and their brother cuts firewood. Go back to the chainsaw forum. You're a waste of air and sunshine. - Sam



Sorry wasn't aware of your god complex sunshine.


----------



## Johny Utah (Jul 21, 2011)

RandyMac said:


> This message is hidden because Johny ******* is on your ignore list.
> View Post


 
Randy are you always so negative to people who don't agree with your high standards.


----------



## Rounder (Jul 22, 2011)

Johnny cull has made my ignore list. Quite the accomplishment. I am quite patient. Bye bye tree hugging piece of #### hippie mother ####ing ass wipe. Oh wait, I can't call you an ass wipe, as you love trees and disreegard the #### hanging from your spincter. Sorry...my bad - Sam


----------



## RandyMac (Jul 22, 2011)

Kinda sad that some people step in #### on purpose and track it around.


----------



## Rounder (Jul 22, 2011)

The real bummer is the fact that apparently an "Earth Firster" has found our little website. I'm all for Earth First.....we will log the other planets later........I gotta go to bed. Take care- it is Friday tomorow!!


----------



## Gologit (Jul 22, 2011)

Johny Utah said:


> #### off already you pricks


 
That earned you a little neg-rep. You deserved it. Grow up. Or go away. Your choice entirely.


----------



## Gologit (Jul 22, 2011)

mtsamloggit said:


> The real bummer is the fact that apparently an "Earth Firster" has found our little website. I'm all for Earth First.....we will log the other planets later........I gotta go to bed. Take care- it is Friday tomorow!!


 
Yup...!!! Friday!!! Payday!!! Get up and get out!!! I keep hearing rumors about Saturday work but so far they're only that. They'll probably wait 'til the middle of September when it dawns on them that winter is coming, again, and we'll start the Annual Fall Panic a little early.


----------



## wyk (Jul 22, 2011)

Johny Utah said:


> Sorry wasn't aware of your god complex sunshine.


 
Speaking of which, you may want to take a moment and read your sig. You could learn a lot from it. Until then, I'll be doing a 5 star neg rep for ya.


----------



## wyk (Jul 22, 2011)

RandyMac said:


> Kinda sad that some people step in #### on purpose and track it around.


 
He may have stepped in HBRN on purpose and tracked it around.


----------



## RandyMac (Jul 22, 2011)

wyk is on a streak today!


----------



## Samlock (Jul 22, 2011)

hammerlogging said:


> Having that much sense would make us too socialist. Home of the brave. And hardheaded. Most of us are contractors and have zero benefits or the like. And if you do get hurt, and have some sort of workers comp coverage, lets just say it can strain the relationship with the boss. Sensible? No.


 
You don't need to be a socialist to be sensible. I'm contracting and I have an insurance from a private company for a bit less than 500 USD a year. They make business, you know. If I get injured, the insurance company pays the medical bills and a paycheck for the days I'm out of of the woods. And if I didn't come back home anymore, they give 75 k's to the widow... The price of the insurance is that moderate because the doctors get a free education in the medical schools and that's why they have no right to rip people off... Wait a minute, it's socialism after all.



> Gologit
> Yup...!!! Friday!!! Payday!!! Get up and get out!!! I keep hearing rumors about Saturday work but so far they're only that. They'll probably wait 'til the middle of September when it dawns on them that winter is coming, again, and we'll start the Annual Fall Panic a little early.



I passed the mid-term of my contract. It took 2 weeks working 12 hours days to catch up. And now I'm taking the whole weekend off! It's the blueberry season right now. Don't take me as a chauvinist, I pick berries too.

This is my method of picking blueberries: I drive Mrs. Samlock into the woods and find her a good spot. Then I start to keep watch for bears (she's a bit scared of them); I find me a shady spot and take a nap. And halleluyah, praise the Lord, the bucket will be full of berries!


----------



## Steve NW WI (Jul 23, 2011)

Johny Utah said:


> What the #### is your problem #######. I cut down trees, I'm not a tree huger. It's not my fault you trashed your body cutting wood for toilet paper. I appreciate nice trees and get pissed when people cut them down for dumb ass reasons. I thought they looked nice, not the type of wood I would harvest for pulp.


 
If you read the thread that video came from http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/106705.htm , you will see the reason for them coming down. It's a great read, but very long.

Short synopsis of why: Those were windbreak trees on an Australian citrus orchard. They had outgrown their usefulness as a windbreak and were taking valuable moisture from the crop trees.

Farmland management and forest management are often at odds, and the farmers will win 9 times out of 10. Many fencelines around here just get bulldozed, burned and buried. How's that for waste? I try to snag as much of it for firewood as I can if I hear about it in time.


----------



## joesawer (Jul 23, 2011)

Samlock said:


> Sam of Montana - I don't know a thing about your job/contract situation, but there is one thing I know: You don't get to work with a broken toe unless you absolutely have no other choice.
> 
> Hammer said a good word. Sometimes it's a good idea to lift your foot on the bench and just watch a movie.
> 
> ...


 


Hell I would not go to work very often at all if I had a choice!
If you gonna be a sissy lala it does not matter what kinda insurance you have.


----------



## Samlock (Jul 23, 2011)

joesawer said:


> Hell I would not go to work very often at all if I had a choice!
> If you gonna be a sissy lala it does not matter what kinda insurance you have.



I'm not ashamed to admit I'm a sissy. If I get hit and need some stitching, I go to see a medicine man and if he says I should stay home, I do. I know everyone has no chance nor brain to do so, and I just feel sorry for them.


----------



## wyk (Jul 23, 2011)

Steve NW WI said:


> If you read the thread that video came from http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/106705.htm , you will see the reason for them coming down. It's a great read, but very long.
> 
> Short synopsis of why: Those were windbreak trees on an Australian citrus orchard. They had outgrown their usefulness as a windbreak and were taking valuable moisture from the crop trees.
> 
> Farmland management and forest management are often at odds, and the farmers will win 9 times out of 10. Many fencelines around here just get bulldozed, burned and buried. How's that for waste? I try to snag as much of it for firewood as I can if I hear about it in time.


 
If he had an ounce of intellect, he would have either found the information himself, or he would have asked what Matt was doing before making the assumption he was cutting trees for giggles. That assumption probably says more about JUtawr than anything else. Well, the fact he has little in the way of social skills says the rest, I guess.


----------



## David (saltas) (Jul 23, 2011)

When I posted matts video it was tongue in cheek about show off types, A previous link to another site had made the point that playing dominos was dangerous.

I can believe the fuss made about those useless trees that had no commercial value. 
I'm going to pm this thread to MCW so he can have a good laugh


----------



## MCW (Jul 24, 2011)

Johny Utah said:


> What the #### is your problem #######. I cut down trees, I'm not a tree huger. It's not my fault you trashed your body cutting wood for toilet paper. I appreciate nice trees and get pissed when people cut them down for dumb ass reasons. I thought they looked nice, not the type of wood I would harvest for pulp.



Hi mate.
As other guys here mentioned I was paid to fell these trees as they were affecting orchard productivity and overall tree health of the surrounding citrus, avocado, and winegrape patches. I've dropped around 7,988 more of these trees. These trees had grown that fast they were good for nothing, not even firewood. They got dragged out with a loader, piled up, and burnt. 10's of 1000's of tonnes worth. Funnily enough, I agree with you in regard to felling trees for no reason. I dropped a couple of big Tasmanian Blue Gums in Tasmania for firewood just because I could - there were smaller more suitable trees everywhere. When I realised just how big they were laying on the ground I swore I wouldn't drop trees like that for firewood again. A couple of them were close to 180' when measured later.



Steve NW WI said:


> If you read the thread that video came from http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/106705.htm , you will see the reason for them coming down. It's a great read, but very long.
> 
> Short synopsis of why: Those were windbreak trees on an Australian citrus orchard. They had outgrown their usefulness as a windbreak and were taking valuable moisture from the crop trees.
> 
> Farmland management and forest management are often at odds, and the farmers will win 9 times out of 10. Many fencelines around here just get bulldozed, burned and buried. How's that for waste? I try to snag as much of it for firewood as I can if I hear about it in time.



Wow. Somebody read that thread? 



wyk said:


> If he had an ounce of intellect, he would have either found the information himself, or he would have asked what Matt was doing before making the assumption he was cutting trees for giggles. That assumption probably says more about JUtawr than anything else. Well, the fact he has little in the way of social skills says the rest, I guess.



I did giggle a lot Wes, it was the drugs. Extremely hard to find a vein for a quick shot of meth while hanging onto a 390XP with one hand but where there's a will there's a way...



saltas said:


> When I posted matts video it was tongue in cheek about show off types, A previous link to another site had made the point that playing dominos was dangerous.
> 
> I can believe the fuss made about those useless trees that had no commercial value.
> I'm going to pm this thread to MCW so he can have a good laugh



Well it was a bit of a show off mate  As I wrote in the thread the domino setups were actually more about productivity. My average over nearly 8,000 trees ranging from around 12" - 44" odd was 37.5 trees an hour, felling only. If I had to wedge every single tree and not use the good old domino technique it would have been below 30 trees an hour for sure. Oh. and one of them fell on a Ringtail Possum. I'm going to hell for that one...


Now this was a domino scenario done for safety, not productivity. If I'd have stayed under these I'd have been in a very high risk situation - companies tend to frown upon those employees that get crushed  These trees were around the 100-120' mark and all were interlaced. Plus I managed to hang one part of a tree up which changed my whole attack plan. You can see one of the interlaced tree branches swing down right at the end as they're falling...


<iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/c52ee024QTI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


----------



## wyk (Jul 25, 2011)

MCW said:


> Wow. Somebody read that thread?



I only looked at the pictures. 



> I did giggle a lot Wes, it was the drugs. Extremely hard to find a vein for a quick shot of meth while hanging onto a 390XP with one hand but where there's a will there's a way...



You have a ported 390xp. You don't need meth.


----------



## MCW (Jul 25, 2011)

wyk said:


> I only looked at the pictures.



So did I.



wyk said:


> You have a ported 390xp. You don't need meth.



Actually I have two ported 390XP's so needed meth as there was an out of balance saw Feng Shui thingy going on.


----------



## Johny Utah (Aug 1, 2011)

Steve NW WI said:


> If you read the thread that video came from http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/106705.htm , you will see the reason for them coming down. It's a great read, but very long.
> 
> Short synopsis of why: Those were windbreak trees on an Australian citrus orchard. They had outgrown their usefulness as a windbreak and were taking valuable moisture from the crop trees.
> 
> Farmland management and forest management are often at odds, and the farmers will win 9 times out of 10. Many fencelines around here just get bulldozed, burned and buried. How's that for waste? I try to snag as much of it for firewood as I can if I hear about it in time.



Thanks for clearing that up. I hear ya with the wind row thing, happens all the time around here and I get so pissed when I see a dozer next to a pile of nice wood.


----------



## RandyMac (Aug 9, 2011)

Limp Member
This message is hidden because Cork Shoes is on your ignore list.


----------



## Steve NW WI (Aug 9, 2011)

RandyMac said:


> Limp Member
> This message is hidden because Cork Shoes is on your ignore list.


 
That's almost too bad, Randy. You oughta see the bright red rep she's got going. Been a long time since I've seen that much red rep!


----------



## Gologit (Aug 9, 2011)

Steve NW WI said:


> That's almost too bad, Randy. You oughta see the bright red rep she's got going. Been a long time since I've seen that much red rep!


 
Yup...I just added a little.


----------

