# List of Upgrades to Vermeer SC252



## stumper63

For those of us that have the 252 it seems like it would be handy to have an authoritative list of the modifications all of us have made to improve/upgrade/strenghten our machines.
I know Plyscamp has made quite a few, including the recent hydraulic ram bushing upgrades. Has anyone else made mods to their 252? What did you do, how well has it worked out, any specific part #'s?

I would like to take all the responses and put them together in one post so any of us can benefit from them a bit easier.

If there are previous posts you know about, please reference them.

I realize that some things are matters of opinion, like which type of cutter wheel or teeth to use, like, my preference of the Sandvik. But lots of things are probably just what they are, good upgrades.

Perhaps these upgrades would help those with similar sized machines from other manufacturers as well.
Stumper63


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## Stumpgrinder

I would love to see that!


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## stumper63

So far there hasn't been any interest in the list, maybe we can generate some enthusiasm since it would be helpful to all. I am willing to collate the replies into such a list, but need input from any who have made upgrades to contribute to the thread.

There is some information on the site already, but I haven't had time to sift through it yet, but will.

Thanks,
Stumper63


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## Stumpgrinder

I'll help take a look through the post's


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## BCstumper

Tried to copy plyscamp information about swing arm bushings in large equipment dont know how to do it.




Brian


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## Plyscamp

I am not ignoring this post, it has just been more than a little crazy lately. As soon as I can get some time I will post all of my mods. Ground speed increase, needle bearings, shaft improvements, engine upgrades, pivot upgrades, belt and pulley upgrades, Yada Yada Yada.


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## Plyscamp

Ok, probably the most wanted improvement is the ground speed improvement. Its fairly simple if you have a good bearing & pulley supplier near you. Keep in mind with this modification you will also speed up your swing speed and up and down speeds. All of these speeds are variable with the control levers.

Remove the clutch cover and you will find a small belt and a 5" diameter pulley that is mounted to your hydraulic pump. Remove the belt and pulley and replace the 5" diameter pulley with a 3.5" pulley ( 30% faster) or a 3" pulley (40% faster). One problem I had was locating a pulley with a 9/16" center bore. Standard stocking pulleys are 1/2" or 5/8". Kaman bearing was able to do it with a 2 piece taper lock pulley. Now all you need is a 4L250 (1/2" X 25") belt, reassemble tighten belt and your good to go.


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## stumper63

thanks plyscamp,
I was also thinking that you could increase the ground speed by changing the small sprocket on hydraulic drive motor for the wheels and increasing chain length a few links. But this would seem to decrease the power though increasing the speed, used to do this with dirt bikes years ago. With your modification have you noticed any decrease in hill climbing power, or is it just the same with more speed? Does the increased rpm's of the pump pulley increase the flow or the pressure?
thanks for another good idea!

Stumper63


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## Plyscamp

Stumper63 The pulley change increases the flow and does not change the pressure. It will still spin the tires before before it quits pulling. You can add a larger lower sprocket and gain speed but there is not a lot of room down there. Actually my Diesel engine only runs at 2,600 RPM (Kohler runs at 3,600 RPMs) and I have the smaller pulley and larger sprocket both on that unit.


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## Plyscamp

Plastic bushings to needle bearings on hydraulic cylinders. You will need 4 Ea. Timken B-1612 needle bearings and 2 Ea. Timken B-1616 needle bearings.

The B-1612 bearings are for the side to side swing cylinders and the B1616 are for the up and down swing cylinder. Pull the pins that hold the cylinders on and drive the old nylon bushings out. I find it is easier to split the plastic bushing with a hacksaw blade before you try and drive them out, they really fit tight. Then drop the needle bearing in the hole, grease it real good and reassemble.

I am going to drill my pins Vertically down to the bearing area then Horizontally to meet the vertical hole. This will allow me to add a grease fitting at the end of the pin to grease the bearing.

I bought the bearings from US Bearings and Drives THROUGH AMAZON.COM. frieght and all it was $50.28


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## Plyscamp

OK tonight I will address Auto Sleep. It is my opinion that Auto Sleep was developed for the Rental Yards to protect the belts from the novice user and in this application I feel it is mandatory. 
If you are into production grinding and need/want more production from your SC252 disable the Auto Sleep feature. This will put you in charge of the cutting instead of the computer.
To disable the Auto Sleep lift the hood and near the tool box closest to the engine you will find a Black Box/Computer. In one of the heavy wires attached to this box you will find a fuse holder. It is black rubber maybe one inch square. Open it up and remove the spade style fuse, Close the fuse holder up and it is disabled. You are now in control of the machines cutting ability. Should you ever want to enable it just put the fuse back in the holder.


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## arbor pro

plyscamp,

In disabling the auto sweep feature, could that be the reason that so many users end up with early engine and bearing wear - particularly when switching over to other tooth setups such as greenteeth?

I run the larger deep dish red greenteeth setup on my 'stock' 2004 sc252 and have never had a problem with bearings or with my machine wanting to 'climb up' the stump as many other users of that tooth have complained about. I feel that my machine with the greenteeth setup is very productive even with no other modifications so long as I keep the teeth sharp which I always do. (I also have a larger tow behind which runs the same size tooth so, I put new teeth on my sc252 and, as soon as they loose their edge, I put them on the tow behind and run them until they're shot).

By disabling the auto sweep, might that be causing the head to swing too fast; thus, bogging down the engine (reducing rpms), slowing the cutter wheel and eventually causing excessive wear to the engine and bearings as a result?

I'm just asking because it seems to me that by modifying the machine, you might get increased production but, you also get increased wear on the machine. Do you feel you are trading off one for the other by disabling features and making modifications?


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## stumper63

I'm with Plyscamp, disable it. I've tried it twice now just to make sure, but the Autosweep is just too slow. Can't beat good hand/eye/ear coordination for stump grinding. I've got over 2500 hours on my 252, same engine still purring along, just the usual bearing replacement every 500 hours or so. Bearings are about $70 each, so what are you saving? The speed increased with manual control is not worth the minor bearing costs. Just don't abuse the machine and it will last a long time. I don't have problems with the machine running up a stump unless I take way too big of a bite, which I don't do unless I fall asleep, which I also don't do while grinding, which I did do the couple of times I enabled the autosweep.

A must for inexperienced users like at rental yards, but a real sleeper for the stump guy doing his job every day like me.
stumper63


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## Plyscamp

Let me explain why Pause Computers used on Stump Grinders and Chippers are nothig more than a band aide for lack of power and actually reduce the available power even further. Note I did not say Horsepower. Horsepower is normally developed somewhere around maximum RPM (3,600 RPMs). A pause computer (Auto Sleep) is designed to keep the engine at or near maximum RPM. Should the engine speed fall much below maximum RPM the computer will slow the swing speed to a crawl, until the engine comes back to speed.

What Keeps the wheel turning under load is Torque not Horsepower. Maximum Torque is normally developed between 2,200 to 2,600 RPMs depending on engine brand and cubic inches. So Auto Sleep keeps your engine out of the power range.

After the Auto Sleep is disabled the operator controls the swing speed. The swing speed control lever is variable speed. You can increase the swing speed by adding more pressure to the control lever and decrease swing speed with less pressure on the control lever.

This allows the operater to increase or decrease the engine load and bring the RPMs into the true power band which is Torque. Once disabled you must become a thinking operater and not a robot. If you continue to force the control lever to the maximum position everytime like you do with Auto Sleep, you will be stalling the engine frequently and damage the unit. Listen to the engine it will tell you if it needs more or less load.

It really comes down to this, if you think the computer is smarter than your operater do not make this modification. If you feel your operater is smarter than the computer you will be rewarded with about double the production. Who want's to spend 2 hours on a 1 hour stump?


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## stumper63

Nice info plyscamp. The other mods you've mentioned are replacing the jackshaft with a 1.5" unit. Also replacing the engine with the 35hp Briggs & Stratton Vanguard. Should I pull up the info from the original posts or do you have anything to add or subtract from those posts?

Vermeer went back to a straight across 1.25" jackshaft, no more step up to 1.5" in the middle. Mine were breaking at the step, went through 4 of them last season. But I think when I mod up to the 35hp I'll have a friend of mine who is a machinist make up a couple of the 1.5's for me. You just use the same 1.5" bearings as the cutter wheel, don't you? No problem fitting, since they are about 1/2" longer pillow block?

You didn't happen to make a template of the engine mount plate after it was modified did you? Would tell us all the dimensions and where the holes go and how big the plate was. Guess we can figure it out when we get there. Appreciate your insights.
How's the grinding going? Picking up here just like it always does in the end of Feb. Do you grind full-time, or do you do tree work too?

Thanks,
Stumper63


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## Plyscamp

Stumper 63 The 1.5" shaft is pretty straight forward. Have your Machinist duplicate your 1.25" shaft with a 1.5" shaft and make it out of 4130 Steel. You will need new 1.5" center hubs for the 2 piece pulley's on each end of the shafts and yes use the same bearings as the cutter head. This also standardizes all the bearings. We carry 2 spares in the truck and just replace them in the field if we lose one.
I have not made a template for the 35 HP engine mount but I will do that in the next few day's.
I will post tomorrow on pulley and belt changes for the lower belts, and a belt source for the upper and lower belts. I did not get the pulley diameters today as I had planned.
We are a full time Stump Grinding Company and Tree Trimming or Removal is not what we do. We sub contract for about 30 Tree company's, Grind for many of the Cities, Hospital, Colleges and Gas & Electric Etc.. We also specialize in difficult access stumps, Hillside ,Planter boxes, limited space, up & down stairway's etc. With the fuel costs and housing problems, business is down about 40% versus last year. However we are starting to see some signs of improvement.


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## Sbusta

Plyscamp are you still running multi tip?


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## stumper63

Plyscamp,
Thanks for taking the time to benefit us other stumpers.
Are your clutches still holding up pretty well? I still haven't noticed any problems with mine since putting on the heavy Sandvik wheel last summer, and this clutch has about 1800 hours on it. If it goes bad have you ever though of using a clutch from a 352? They run a 35hp Vanguard on some of them, so it would seem it could be modded to fit the 252, since the shaft size should be the same, though the pulley or belt sizes would probably not be a direct fit. But if it ain't broke....

Do you use the alpine magnum for your tight access stumps, like in planter boxes, stairways, etc? One of these days I'm going to run up to Tacoma and demo one. I don't lose alot of business due to inaccessibility, but I could probably get more business if all the tree services and landscape companies I grind for knew I could access more stumps.

Stumper63


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## scouse

Hi,
Thought I'd add a few little tips I've picked up from running my 252.While most aren't really upgrades they should help keep your machine running a bit better/longer 

Engine: Oil very important to use the right grade, i've seen a few engines destroyed from just using the wrong oil.10W30 is the way to go, any thicker and it can/will pump up the hydraulic lifters causing a fair bit of damage. Change it regulary especially when grinding in dusty conditions, every 100 hours at least. Check for oil leaks, as these engines work with a crankcase vacuum if oil is leaking out dirt and air will get in. 

Intake manifold : If the engine pops on WOT under no load then there is prob an air leak from the manifold gasket (happened twice on mine now) may be due to the odd couple of times its been tipped on its side  

Belts : Toothed belt from cutter head to jack shaft, a poor design now changed to a multi v belt on later models(not sure when) use the tool provided to check the tension too tight and it will snap too loose and it will strip the teeth, I'm gonna convert it to the latest version when i get a chance :/

Jack belts : (i think thats what they are called) from engine to jack shaft again check tension too lose and they will slip too tight and they will cause premature wear on the crank and crankcase, an expensive bit of damage and requires a full rebuild can happen in a short period of time if belts are waaay too tight.

Drive train : chain lubricate and keep tensioned, I use some sticky oil spray thing that you can get from a dirt bike store.

Drive pins : these lock the axle to a plate which drives the wheels, they only ever sheer when your miles away from your truck stuck in a field,buy a couple of spares ones(normal bolts wont last 2 minutes) and keep em with the stumpy.

Hydraulics : Not much to say but check the lines that run from the control levers to the various rams, these can rub on each other and also on the lid that covers the fuel tank etc.They will only ever blow when the stumpy is driving accros a customers newly laid block paving  replace them id the outer casing is worn and you can see the wire reinforcement, keep a long spare one that can replace most of em in an emergency.

Pivot bush : This is the one right underneath the machine and holds the head onto the chassis. Check the grease pipe is still in place since the prone to snapping at the brass union.If there is alot of play in the head try tightening up the large bolt (32mm i think) you will have to give it a good smack with a lump hammer to turn it, If it wont tighten remove the nut and the pinch bolt on the opposite side, spray some penetrating fluid over it all and try to smack the pin to get it moving then replace the pinch bolt and tighten the large nut right up.

Swing arm bushes : Allways wear and cause alot of side movement, I've replaced em a few times (Plyscamp roller bearings sound good) the last time i replaced em I drilled and tapped some grease nipples in there so it should hopefully prong there life too early to say if it works atm.

Well thats all i can think of atm and I'm sure I've gone on long enough I'll add some more if i think of anything


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## Plyscamp

SBUSTA Yes I am still running the Multi tooth and I am very happy with the system. Getting ready to convert my SC505. How are you making out with your set up, did you get your Kan Do project up and running?

Stumper63 Yes I own three Alpines and a friend of mine own's 3 more. Between the 2 of us we do just about all the difficult access work in the County. ( San Diego County is roughly the size of the Sate of Rhode Island )
The clutch situation has not changed due to lack of time to pursue it. The Briggs Stratton 35HP used on the SC352 is a completely different engine than the 35 HP we are using. The SC352 is a 3 cylinder inline liquid cooled and the 35 HP we use is a V twin air cooled. However Vermeer seems to be looking at a upgrade clutch as the local dealer's mechanic approached my son about testing a different clutch from Agura.

Good information from SCOUSE and he is certainly right on about the roll pins on the wheel locks. They only go out when your a long way from the truck and usually even further from the Vermeer dealer. Pay's to keep them on the unit.

I still have not pulled the belt covers to measure the pulley's on my SC252 lower belt set up but I have not fogotten.


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## stumper63

Plyscamp,

I don't know anyone in northern OR that is running an Alpine, but not sure I'm missing much business because of it. I've turned down perhaps 5 jobs in the last 4 years due to lack of access. But, if I got one perhaps I could let the tree and landscape services in the area know I have one and could get to any stump, where they might not think possible. 

I didn't know about the 352 gas engine being a 3 cylinder. I was wondering why on the Vermeer website the literature for the 352 says the torque on the diesel and the gas was the same, 53 ft. lbs. Not sure if it is a typo or if the gas engine w/ three cylinders is just pretty torquey.

Did you see the latest 252? The literature online shows a new feature: an operator's presence gizmo. Somehow the levers know if you let them go for more than .5 second. If you do the clutch disengages, but if you grab again in less than 2 seconds the clutch re-engages. Will have to see one in the showroom, sounds like more to go wrong, but, hey, you never know. 

Look forward to your engine mount plate and pulley info when you get a chance, seems the season is heating up pretty quick up here.

Stumper63


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## sticknstring

scouse said:


> Intake manifold : If the engine pops on WOT under no load then there is prob an air leak from the manifold gasket (happened twice on mine now) may be due to the odd couple of times its been tipped on its side



Scouse, 

Thanks for that little tip. I've been going crazy trying to fix mine the last week. Mine would only run on the front cylinder sporatically. Barely at idle, and very rough at WOT. I thought it was an ignition problem. Changed the coil, even changed the spark advance module. Tracked all of the wiring looking for breaks or exposed wires. Saw your post about popping with no load at WOT, which mine was doing too. Sure enough, I pulled the manifold and the gasket was shot. A $1.38 gasket, and it is running like a top.

Thanks again. I was about to try and fix the problem with a 10# sledge.


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## BCstumper

Whats WOT


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## sticknstring

Wide Open Throttle


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## scouse

> I was about to try and fix the problem with a 10# sledge


I know that feeling 

Glad it helped, brillant when you spend hours and loads of cash trying to fix it then finding out its a £1 gasket


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## Plyscamp

Belts and pulley mods for the SC252. 

For the engine to jackshaft belt I use a 2B65 Belt. This will replace Vermeers belt and will work for all horsepower engines, and no pulley changes are required. I buy this belt from bestorque.com for $16.48 Ea. + freight.

For the lower belts I have converted to a 3 groove pulley, 4" diameter top and 7 " diameter lower, using B section or 5/8" belts. The pulleys can be purchased from a local supplier. In the case of the 25 HP Kohler a 2 groove pulley will be more than sufficient. The belts I use are part # BX45 and I also buy these at bestorque.com for 7.99 Ea. + freight. The BX belts are raw edge belts and provide more grip and strength versus the standard B belts.

I find it interesting that the Briggs Stratton 3 cylinder 35HP diesel used on the SC352 has less torque than the 35HP Air Cooled Big Bore V twin I put on my SC252. The Diesel has 53 Ft Lbs. of torque and the V Twin is 57 Ft. Lbs. of torque.


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## 352stumper

*Narrowing a 222 or 252*

I am currently running an older Vermeer 222, and was wondering if anyone has tried to narrow the machine to fit though a smaller gate. I was thinking about converting to 4" tires to add a couple of inches of clearance.


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## Plyscamp

Narrowing the wheels will not help. The axle with the bearing caps is 35" end to end.


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## jason2078

*has anyone found the bestorque.com site. I tried it but can't find it.*

Check that web site address please. I could buy two bestorques for what vermeer wants for one of their dayco belts. so it would be helpful. thanks jason


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## Plyscamp

Sorry about that, try bestorq.com


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## BCstumper

*Grinder teeth (Frustrated)*

What have you guys found out, about the best grinder teeth to use. Been using some teeth from CEI not happy seems like everytime i go out one of the tips break off. Thought about greenteeth, or yellow jacket. Thought about sandvik, but seems pricey.


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## Tree Student

BCstumper said:


> What have you guys found out, about the best grinder teeth to use. Been using some teeth from CEI not happy seems like everytime i go out one of the tips break off. Thought about greenteeth, or yellow jacket. Thought about sandvik, but seems pricey.



I have also been wondering about this question, I seem to dull the vermeer teeth after a few stumps so I either need to find a place to sharpen them or look at a different type of tooth that will get me more bang for my buck.


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## stumper63

I took the plunge to Sandvik wheel/teeth last summer for my 252, about $1150 to get started, plus stocking spare teeth @$11.50 each. That said, yes it was quite an investment, but worth every penny. I haven't tried anything but Vermeer's ProSeries and the Sandvik, so can only speak to that comparison.
Get the Sandvik! It really does cut much faster, probably 30-40%, way less chip throw, when down in the dirt the rpm's are maintained much better due to way less pocket drag, wheel is 50 lbs heavier so increased momentum keeps you cutting w/o reducing recovery time when you do bog it down (don't ask me how that's possible, it just is), and tooth sharpness and ability to withstand rocks and even occasional rebar/pipe is amazing. I've got almost 400 hours with this setup, no adverse affects on electric clutch, which had 1500 hours on it when I put the Sandvik on.
Easy to sharpen, or DeMott tool can replace the tips for about $7. Looks like you'll ony get one re-tip before the shank of the tool is worn too much. But, seems like I can sharpen them 3 or 4 times before the tooth is done.

So that's what I know about my experience. Couldn't talk about any other manufacturer's products. Hope it helps.

Stumper63


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## stumper63

Hey Plyscamp,

How's the season going down there? Hopefully well, up here it's been fine.

Getting the thread back on topic a little bit, did you ever get the chance to document the engine mounting plate dimensions and hole pattern and locations for the Vanguard 35hp on your 252?

My 25hp Kohler is still going strong but weeping a bit of oil down low, so if I have to get into it I'll just be changing to the Vanguard.
thanks for your time...

Stumper63


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## jason2078

*I'm happy with my green teeth set up*

it cost 260.00 to switch over pockets and teeth on my sc252. New teeth are 6.95. They last good and switch out in minutes due to their new design. no bolts or nuts to switch out teeth. The bonus to that is they have three cutting sides, so you can dull up all three sides before switching out the whole tooth. Its greeneeth.com for any interested people. check it out. jason


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## Plyscamp

Stumper63 The SC252 with the Briggs is my son's unit and I don't see it every day as he lives 35 Miles North of me. I will have him bring it down in the next few days and I will measure up the mounting plate. The season is still spotty down here. Seems as though we are busy early in the week and slow late in the week. Good news is April is the first month since August that were ahead of the same month last year.

In regards to Teeth I use the Multi Tip System on all my hydraulic units. As most of you know we grind in a lot of rock down here. The multi Tip Teeth hold up as well as anything I have ever used and I don"t have to deal with those pain in the @ss pockets that create so much frictional drag. One bolt and I change 4 carbides, takes about 30 seconds per tooth. This system also cutts about 30% faster than the Vermeer Pro Teeth. Converted to Greenteeth a few years ago and was not happy with that system. Once you hit a rock you can't grind any relief back into the carbide. Took that system off and threw it away.


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## Curbside

Hey Stumper 

You like that Sandvic I see. It's an awsome cutting system. I have been very happy with mine. I find the teeth last way longer than Vermeers and the cutting is faster the machine even works better with the larger diameter wheel.


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## gr8scott72

jason2078 said:


> it cost 260.00 to switch over pockets and teeth on my sc252. New teeth are 6.95. They last good and switch out in minutes due to their new design. no bolts or nuts to switch out teeth. The bonus to that is they have three cutting sides, so you can dull up all three sides before switching out the whole tooth. Its greeneeth.com for any interested people. check it out. jason



Right now, Greenteeth has the 700 series rock teeth on sale for $3.00 each. No different from the regular teeth except they have a bit of extra carbide. I've been running them even though we don't have rocky soil here and they are doing just fine and at $3 each how can you go wrong.


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## jason2078

*i should have said*

I have the new 700 series lo-pro tap and turn. This set up has better clearance between pockets and teeth and the teeth are tap and turn, no nut to loosen. The tooth shaft through the pocket has a spring detent. I use a rubber mallet to knock the tooth down a little, then use my fingers to turn to a new sharp side, and tap back in with rubber mallet. When I first got them I thought there would be no way in hell that a spring detent would hold a tooth in a pocket. But after 3 happily bought sets I havent lost a single one. I can change cutting sides in 2 minutes versus an hour changing the old vermeer pro series that mine came with.


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## gr8scott72

jason2078 said:


> I have the new 700 series lo-pro tap and turn. This set up has better clearance between pockets and teeth and the teeth are tap and turn, no nut to loosen. The tooth shaft through the pocket has a spring detent. I use a rubber mallet to knock the tooth down a little, then use my fingers to turn to a new sharp side, and tap back in with rubber mallet. When I first got them I thought there would be no way in hell that a spring detent would hold a tooth in a pocket. But after 3 happily bought sets I havent lost a single one. I can change cutting sides in 2 minutes versus an hour changing the old vermeer pro series that mine came with.




yeah, blah blah blah. I'm mad at greenteeth. They came out with the tap and turn teeth just a couple of months after I shelled out the money for the original ones.


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## jason2078

*bum*

Sorry, to here that scott. Even Greenteeth's old style bolt and nut tooth is quicker to change then most setups out there.


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## gr8scott72

jason2078 said:


> Sorry, to here that scott. Even Greenteeth's old style bolt and nut tooth is quicker to change then most setups out there.



Oh, I know, just ranting. I like my greenteeth. Especially the $3 ones I just bought.


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## HolmenTree

I found a quick trick to sharpen GreenTeeth. Put the bolt end in a power drill , with the drill in reverse hold the side of the cardide against a greenstone wheel on a bench grinder which is turning the other direction. Sharpens really quick.

Does anyone have part numbers for those 1 1/2" pulley hub bushings to replace the 1 1/4"ones on the 252 jackshaft. I'm repacing the 1 1/4" jackshaft with a straight 1 1/2" but I'm having a hard time finding the larger bore bushings to fit the pulleys.

Thanks for any help.
Willard.:greenchainsaw:


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## HolmenTree

Well I changed the 252's jackshaft the other day and did a little measuring. In order to replace the 1 1/4" shaft with a 1 1/2" you would need a new clutch side jackshaft pulley with a larger bore to accept the larger 1 1/2" hub. The day when I replace the 25 hp Kohler with a 35 hp, that will be the day when I start looking for that pulley. $80 for a spare 1 1/4" jackshaft is cheaper then replacing all that gear.


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## BCstumper

*Bearings*

Has anybody found a place for bearings, cheaper then vermeer, Have one starting to make noise.



Brian


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## Beast12

I believe my Dad bought some from TSC. I was very unsure if they were going to work or not. But, they have been in for over 200 hours with no problems. We usually go around 500-600 hours on a lower set. About 1000 on the uppers.

-Matt


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## gr8scott72

BCstumper said:


> Has anybody found a place for bearings, cheaper then vermeer, Have one starting to make noise.
> 
> 
> 
> Brian



I got mine for the Rayco from Motion Industries.


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## Beast12

Ya, any bearing place in your city should have them. The bearings are nothing special. Just make sure you have the old bearing with you when you go in.

-Matt


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## ApexTreeService

Cut that ridiculous bar off the front for increased functionality, also added Amsoil complete oil bypass filtration system for oil filtering of particles 2 microns and larger at 98.7 percent efficiency on a single pass.


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## stumper63

Yeah, finally cut that guard for the "rental users" off of mine a year or so ago too, why didn't I do it sooner? Way more functional, can get right up to fences, decks, whatever. Always had it bungeed in up position anyway. No problems or incidents since.

Where did you get the oil filtration system? Is it externally mounted, or just spin on where original filter goes?

Thanks,

Stumper63


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## ApexTreeService

You can get a general purpose oil filtration system from amsoil.com, click on bypass at the top, and it's a bmk23. The kit will include an adapter that spins on where the original filter goes, hose, and an aluminum block that the original full flow filter and fine particle filter screw into. I welded the bracket for the block about halfway down the 'boom arm', so the oil filters/block just hangs there, then the hose goes from the block, around the front of the engine just below the key in an arc, and into the stock oil filter location. That's the best location I could find after staring at it for and hour or more.


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## ApexTreeService

Tonight I just did the very first upgrade that should have been done 6 years ago when I bought the machine :

Change the hydraulic pump pulley to a smaller (3" vs. 5" stock one) one for increased (40%) travel speed and increased boom/arm speed. Now it is much faster, but I am going to put a smaller sprocket on the wheel drive motor to increase land speed even more. I love the faster boom speed because I use it to raise the machine and 'walk' the front end left or right instead of driving/steering it for large stumps. The wheel drive motor seems more powerful now, no problem spinnin' em.

It was so easy and painless too. You order a 2 piece taper lock pulley (1 piece is the sheave, 1 piece is the bushing/keyway) with a 9/16" bore, 3" diameter, for a 1/2" belt. Get a 4L250 belt, swap everything and your done.

Also, one other must do. Every have to drive off the pile of shavings and rake them elsewhere so you can continue grinding without having to power through the chips under the machine? I do it like 5 times a stump, and it's annoying. So I unbolted the front chip flap, and moved it forward to the front end of the box instead of the back. Then I bought some 1/8" rubber to fill in on the sides, and now I have twice the area to fill with chips before they start to pile up against the back of the wheel.


----------



## stumper63

Plyscamp did this awhile back, guess I should try it too. Do you have a spec. on the pulley? Part #, etc?

Never thought about moving the curtain, I'll look at it today when I'm grinding.

Thanks,

Stumper63


----------



## ApexTreeService

The part numbers are:

Belt: 4L250
Sheave: AK30H
Bushing: H9/16

The sheave is the part that the belt runs on, it has a hole in the center which the bushing bolts into, then the whole unit slides on the 9/16" pump shaft. Simple.

If you want these guys said they'd ship it too, that eliminates you having to call around. McGuire Bearing, Salt Lake City, 801.975.1144. I paid $51.


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## stumper63

Nice, we have a McGuire Bearing in our town, and I know a guy who works there, thanks for the tip!

Stumper63


----------



## Bigstumps

You need to be careful doing this. 

You are increasing the RPM of the pump - which will increase the flow coming out of the pump.

With increased flows there are other considerations - suction line sizing, pressure line sizing, filter sizing, and tank sizing.

Too small a suction line = pump cavitation Too small pressure lines/filter = excess heat

I'm not saying it won't work - just need to be carefull how much flow you get and what the long term implications might be.

When you change your drive sprockets you are going to trade speed for torque. Just depends what you need.

You can also look at increasing relief pressure - most components are good to 3000 PSI - the limiting component will be the hydraulic drive motor it is probably not good to 3000PSI - you can look this up and then reset the relief closer to this pressure. This will gain you power/torque.


----------



## stumper63

Bigstumps,

Let's see if Plyscamp is still looking at this thread. He made the pulley change 1-1/2 years ago on two of his 252's.

Gordy, any problems noticed since switching out the pump pulley, like Bigstumps said may happen? Cavitation, excess heat?
Did you go with the 3" or 3.5" pulley?
How many teeth bigger did you go with the drive sprocket on the drive motor?
Still plenty of drive power on slopes, not too high-geared?

Let's see what the survey shows...I met and spoke with Gordy last winter and things were going good then.

Stumper63


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## Plyscamp

I made the pulley change (3") on Dec. 05-2005 on my diesel unit. I have had no problems of any kind with the conversion. And yes it will spin the wheels until it buries itself. The Lombardini diesel only runs at 2,600 RPM's so yes it was necessary to increase the sprocket size to maintain speed. It has been so long since I changed it I do not remember what tooth sprocket I used.
Now before you come back and say I did not increase the pump speed due to the engine RPM's, I also made this change on my other SC252 with the 35 HP Briggs Sept. 19-2007 and again absolutely no problems.


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## ApexTreeService

I am so happy I did this. I wouldn't care if I had to replace the hydraulic pump once a year, I waste so much time on the job site moping next to the Vermeer. My workers all know it's break time once that thing starts up. Takes 5 minutes to get to the back yard. Times that by 2, then by jobs a day, week, yr and you have A LOT of wasted time. Also, I waste a lot of time grinding too, waiting for the boom to raise/lower, or sweep, repositioning is a full on chore if you have to wait/do it. 

My wheel power has increased since I did the pulley conversion, so I think that should be compensate for taller gearing on the wheel drive motor once I do that.


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## Bigstumps

I agree about the wasted time!!! Before I bought my Kubota I thought about installing two Kohler engines - don't laugh, I've seen it done on some Dixie Chopper Mowers. Could you imagine 50HP on one of these!


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## gr8scott72

Bigstumps said:


> I agree about the wasted time!!! Before I bought my Kubota I thought about installing two Kohler engines - don't laugh, I've seen it done on some Dixie Chopper Mowers. Could you imagine 50HP on one of these!



I don't have to imagine. I have 60!! hehehe :greenchainsaw:


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## Plyscamp

Apex

Don't worry about your pump, the one on my diesel has over 4,300 hours on it and I have not even replaced a seal.


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## NCgrinder

I did the 3" pump sheave changeover and my pump howled like a banshee!!
The first job I took it on , the customers dog hid under the doghouse !!! The pump also seemed to be a lot hotter to the touch than usual. I was afraid of burning the pump up and not finishing the job.
I had taken along the original 5" sheave ,so I stopped and changed back to the original. The next day ,I drained and changed all the hydraulic fluid & filter,removed the suction hose and checked for blockage (found no blockage). I haven't re-installed the 3" ,but I'm real hesitant to do so. Any of you guys that report no pump problem ,does your pump "howl" ??? any signs of cavitation,heat,pump wear ,etc

I did like the increased ground speed ,but the howling hydraulic pump was hard to put up with.
Stan


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## ApexTreeService

Yes, my pump is now noisy. It doesn't howl loud enough to scare a dog though. It doesn't bother me, I wear ear plugs. I plan on changing the hydraulic fluid to Amsoil synthetic to decrease cold weather warm up time and cut down on fuel/power consumption. The machine is just unbearable in stock form. With the conversion I can actually get to/from/around the stumps in a timely fashion. I am still going to change the drive gear ratio on the wheel/drive motor combo to increase drive speed to a good pace. Right now the pace is just bearable. The wheel drive motor has so much more power, they will spin on any surface.

I think switching over to synthetic fluid will cut down on pump noise too. Hopefully.


----------



## Bigstumps

You might try changing to a lighter hydraulic oil, or you could increase the diameter of the suction line between the pump and the tank.

The problem with lighter hydraulic oil is once it is hot it will bypass in the motor easier and you will lose power and speed - which is what you are after to begin with.

If you know the pump displacement, you can calculate the speed based on the sheave ratio, then you will know the GPM you are trying to pump. With the GPM you can find recommended suction hose diameter.

http://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulic.htm

http://www.hydraulicsupermarket.com/upload/db_documents_doc_12.pdf


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## Plyscamp

Maybee they have made some changes in the later models, my units are a 1999 & 2001 and both machines are as quite with the pulley change as they were prior to the change.


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## Plyscamp

For those of you that care I did a little research on the pump last night. It is a Sauer Danfoss Part # 29YBAD012-2LB. At 3,000 Rpm it delivers 2.6 GPM, at 3,600 RPM it delivers 3.92 GPM and at 4,000 RPM it delivers 4.8 GPM. 4,000 RPM is the highest recomended RPM. THe input flow calls for 8.2 GPM with and output of 4.8 GPM @ 4,000 RPM. If you want more flow order a 43YBAD012-2LB pump and it will give you a higher flow rate at a lower RPM. All figures are at 2,000 PSI.


----------



## stumper63

I've got an 03, I'll check to see what number I have, but sounds like a new pulley and belt would be cheaper than a new pump.

BTW, thanks for the research!


Stumper63


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## Curbside

Plyscamp


With that upgraded pump do you still need to add a larger pulley or just use the one thats on the origninal pump?


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## Plyscamp

Reviewing the specs on the 43 YB pump it may increase flow to much even with the stock pulley. It puts out 7.5 GPM @ 3,000 RPM and 8.5 GPM @ 3,500 RPM. Requires 11.4 GPM input to deliver 8.5 GPM out put. By the way the last 29YB pump I bought through the aftermarket cost me $210.00 + Frght.


----------



## Plyscamp

Just for Giggles I checked the pump speed at full throttle on both units today.
Lombardini Diesel 3,750 RPMs
35 HP Briggs 4,350 RPMs


----------



## RUBE

*Slow turn over on 252*

A friend has this SC252 and just called with starting issues. Machine is in a warm garage. When he hits the start key the motor turns over very slow and would catch this summer. He has had the starter cleaned and rebuilt along with the celliniod and put on a new start switch. It still turns slow even with a charger/starter pack on the battery terminals.
Any thoughts? TIA


----------



## gr8scott72

RUBE said:


> A friend has this SC252 and just called with starting issues. Machine is in a warm garage. When he hits the start key the motor turns over very slow and would catch this summer. He has had the starter cleaned and rebuilt along with the celliniod and put on a new start switch. It still turns slow even with a charger/starter pack on the battery terminals.
> Any thoughts? TIA



Bad battery.


----------



## Plyscamp

Try cleaning all of the ground cables. I even run and extra battery cable from the starter to the frame on my units as a back up. When you try to start the engine check the battery cables for heat. If there getting hot you most likley have a bad ground.


----------



## RUBE

Thanks for the imput guys and I will relay these ideas. Happy New Year!


----------



## Bigstumps

If the battery is good, check both battery cables. Check them each on both ends where the wire is bared and goes into the crimp or terminal. I've seen corrosion get in between the crimp fitting and the wire letting very little current pass.


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## RUBE

New battery and cables and starter and solenoid. All connection points are shiny metal. Same thing slow, very slow turn over.


----------



## TreeClimber57

RUBE said:


> A friend has this SC252 and just called with starting issues. Machine is in a warm garage. When he hits the start key the motor turns over very slow and would catch this summer. He has had the starter cleaned and rebuilt along with the celliniod and put on a new start switch. It still turns slow even with a charger/starter pack on the battery terminals.
> Any thoughts? TIA





RUBE said:


> New battery and cables and starter and solenoid. All connection points are shiny metal. Same thing slow, very slow turn over.



This does not leave too much in the line. I am not going to bother running out to look at my 252, but here goes.

You say new battery.. new cables, new starter and new solenoid.

Grab a voltmeter and measure the battery voltage (if you can get a meter). Should be around 12volts under no load.

Take the same meter, leave it on battery and crank engine.. see what happens to voltage.

If it does not drop significantly (and I mean down to 3 or 4 volts), then take meter and place across starter motor and then crank again. You will need two people to do all of this. Voltage should drop, but will or should be close to what you observed on battery terminals during cranking (will be slightly less but not much).

Either the battery is low in charge, dropping low during crank.. or there is in fact high resistance between the battery and the starter terminals. Not sure which, but that is most likely.

If the voltage is not in fact dropping at starter and you still say slow cranking..?? Check to see there is oil in the engine  

Seriously, let me know how the above tests work and see where we can go.


----------



## stumper63

Try taking the spark plugs out and see if it cranks any easier. Will take the compression load off, if it cranks alot easier it could be she's close to seizing up. Just a thought. Or take electric clutch cover off and turn crankshaft over by hand, big bolt holding electric clutch on. If you can barely crank it by hand it's definitely something seizing up, if it turns freely, esp. with the plugs still out, must be in the starting system somewhere.


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## RUBE

EVERYONE thanks. He and than I and his father started to really look this thing over. The FIRST thing he did is take the starter in for a rebuild and they did(?). I thought it was new before I got there. After a whole lotta stuff went back to the starter and started looking at it. Took it to a different guy and low and behold it was bad, still. He rebuilt it and we put it back on and all is wonderfull. Sucks that he/we had to go thru all this but on the flip side it is really cleaned up for when the stumps reappear from under the snow.
Again thanks to everyone for the imput.


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## robertjinnes

*Sc222 mod*

After renting several tricycle 252s and then a 4 wheeler, I really appreciated the added stability of the 4 wheeler. One of the first Mods I did when I bought a SC222 with 25 HP was to change from tricycle to 4 wheeler. Built it from used E-bay parts for garden tractors. Total investment was < $200 including a steal on new tires.


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## stumper63

Just finished replacing the bushings and shaft on the lower pivot and the bearings and shaft on the swing pivot. Was not bad at all, both shafts, bushings, bearings, came right out. Amazing difference, the slop is now gone. Not quite like new, but with 3760 hours on the machine it is awesome. Plyscamp, perhaps next time I'll beef it up underneath, but for now it has made such a difference I'm gonna go with the stock setup for the year.

Also changed the drive motor gear from the stock 16 tooth to a 20 tooth. Got it from McGuire. You'll have to grind off the back of the gear to clear the four bolts that attach the motor to the frame, the diameter of the new gear hub is larger and won't fit without grinding it off. Took 10 minutes.
Remember to get a 1/2 link for your chain as you will need it because just adding a couple of links doesn't work, at least on my machine, due to the finite amount of chain adjustment.

Another result: you can't reach one of the bolts with the larger gear, so buy a 9/16" crowfoot socket wrench and replace the one allen head bolt with a regular 3/8-16 x 1-1/4" grade 5 bolt like the others and you're good to go. The crowfoot actually makes tightening the other three bolts a breeze. Why didn't I buy one a long time ago!!!

The ground speed is now 76 ft. per minute at full throttle. Noticeable increase, but not great. You could put a slightly larger gear on, but would have to increase the amount of grinding to clear the bolts.

I forgot to get the hydaulic pump 3.5" pully and belt from McGuire while I was there, next time.


Stumper63


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## stumper63

*What a Difference!*

Just made the change to a 3.5" (actually a 3.45") sheave on the hydraulic pump. Amazing difference. The pump whines just a little bit under full throttle and full load, but not bad. 

In my last post I noted that when I changed the ground drive hydraulic motor from a 16 tooth to a 20 tooth my ground speed went up to 76 ft./min. Now with the smaller sheave on the hydraulic motor it went up to 120 ft./min., that's 1.3 mph. I wish I would have checked the speed before I made any changes, but it's at least twice as fast as before.

If you use the 3.5" sheave you will need the 4L260 belt. The 4L250 that works with the 3" sheave is too short.

Can't wait to give her a try tomorrow. Thanks to all who suggested the change. 

Now all that's left is to change to the 35hp Briggs Vanguard engine, then will have one rockin little stumper! Not sure when that will happen. Just checked the compression on the little 25hp Kohler. It's 145 in both cylinders. Seems like she may go over 4000 hours if I don't change her out before then.

Stumper63


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## stumper63

*252 Stock Ground Speed*

Anyone out there willing to do a little test? Before making the mod's on my 252 I forgot to check the ground speed in stock form. Would someone with the stock setup be willing to do it so we know in real numbers what the improvements are? All you need to do is measure how far the machine moves at full throttle for 15 seconds, then multiply by four for ft./min. It won't be far, probably about 15 feet I'm guessing.

I couldn't find any info from Vermeer that had the ground speed for the 252.

Thanks!

Stumper63


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## gr8scott72

stumper63 said:


> I couldn't find any info from Vermeer that had the ground speed for the 252.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Stumper63



That's because it's soooo slow they are ashamed to post the actual speed. lol


That's one thing I sure don't miss about my old Rayco 1625 I used to have. It took forever to get around to the back yard.

On a side note for comparison, my Carlton 7015 has a listed max ground speed of 3 mph. Weeeee!!!


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## stumper63

First day with the speedy machine. If you use a 252 do the hydraulic sheave conversion tomorrow! Worth the $45 bucks and 20 minutes to install a thousand times over.

Stumper63


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## treecycle

Hey Stumper63 that is awesome, just one more time though where do you order the parts and what do I ask for when buying them for this conversion, thanks


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## purplewg

I wonder if this mod will work on the Rayco 1625 Jr? Seems to me the 252 and 1625 drive motors are about the same. Anyone tried it?


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## stumper63

Hey Treecycle,

Can you check out your ground speed for us all before you do any conversion? Just measure how far it goes at full throttle in 15 seconds and then multiply by 4 for ft./min. Thanks!

Go to page 4 of this thread, the post from ApexTreeService has the info on the 3" sheave. I went with the 3.5" hoping to not get the pump spinning too fast yet still increasing the speed a lot. If you read the whole thread Plyscamp and others have used the 3" without any problems, but some said their pumps whined a lot with it. Anyway, mine has a noticeable whine to it now at full throttle under full load, but it's not bad at all, plus my pump has 3700+ hours on it, I think the bearings may be getting tired anyway as it feels a little rough when turning the pump by hand.

If you go with the 3.5" you will need a 4L260 belt and the sheave is a AK34H. We have a McGuire Bearing in Portland, you probably have one in Seattle too.

You won't regret the conversion!

Stumper63


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## NCgrinder

Stumper63: I have bone-stock 252 w/Kohler 25... I'll measure my G/spd....but it's the monsoon season here...rain/snow for the last two weeks...and more wet-stuff predicted for next week...my grinder trailer is in kneedeep mud!!!

I still have my 3" pump conversion stuff...but as stated in my earlier post (Page 5 # 63),I put it on and my pump wasn't just noisy...it set up an earsplitting howl !!! ....I took all the conversion stuff off & went back to stock..
I did like the faster g/speed though.... and my drive motor sprocket is about worn out (16T) so I may change to a 20T....Anybody got any numbers on that 20T sprocket???

My plan is to get the ground speed up and the sling a new Kohler 31 or 35 on ...should make a real hot-rod grinder...then theres always Nitrous...!!!


----------



## Nick Meyer

*Nick*

I am new at this posting thing. I just have 1 question. I just bought a new sc252 vermeer stump cutter with the operators presence feature on it. I have 26 hrs on it and the operators presence has failed and went out twice already. I have had it serviced under the warranty twice. But when this warranty thing is up i don't want to get stuck with the bill. Any answers?


----------



## gr8scott72

Nick Meyer said:


> I am new at this posting thing. I just have 1 question. I just bought a new sc252 vermeer stump cutter with the operators presence feature on it. I have 26 hrs on it and the operators presence has failed and went out twice already. I have had it serviced under the warranty twice. But when this warranty thing is up i don't want to get stuck with the bill. Any answers?



Disable it? :greenchainsaw:


----------



## Plyscamp

Stumper 63 only took 3,700 hours to start turning your grinder into a production machine instead of a Vermeer. Now get your engine and you wont have time to knap at the controls LOL.


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## stumper63

Plyscamp,

Okay, okay, okay,......I'm kind of used to the naps, but oh well, that's why they call it work I guess. 

Weather's been so nice here things really have taken off. How's it going down in SD, dried out yet? Hopefully.

Stumper63


----------



## kiwidiesel

*Warranty*



Nick Meyer said:


> I am new at this posting thing. I just have 1 question. I just bought a new sc252 vermeer stump cutter with the operators presence feature on it. I have 26 hrs on it and the operators presence has failed and went out twice already. I have had it serviced under the warranty twice. But when this warranty thing is up i don't want to get stuck with the bill. Any answers?



Be careful of Vermeer warranties. The customer is always forgotten when it comes to money. We will never buy another Vermeer machine. Am buying Bandit from now on because of their commitment to the product they manufacture.


----------



## Nick Meyer

*stump reply question*

thanks for the reply


----------



## Plyscamp

Weather has been good in So Cal since the storms. Business is picking up and starting to look more like 2007. Off topic but I just converted the SC505 to the Multi Tip Wheel. A 44" wet Torrey Pine took a grand total of 9 minutes. Gotta love it.


----------



## BTSTUMP

*2004 SC 252 bone stock data with autosleep disabled*

I did some tests with a hand held digital laser tach for baseline data b4 making any mods to the machine. 

Engine running at WOT cutter wheel clutch off:

Engine- 3650 rpm
Hydraulic pulley-2400 rpm
Drive wheel shaft-17 rpm 


Engine running at WOT with cutter wheel clutch engaged:

Engine- 3520 rpm
Hydraulic pulley- 2220 rpm
Jackshaft- 2120 rpm
Cutter head shaft- 1090 rpm

been watching this thread for awhile, and thought I'd contribute this data.
might help some, might not.

Made the sprocket swap to an 18 tooth, and increased the drive shaft rpm up to 20.5 rpm. 1/2 link was not required, and you can still get at the SHCS (allen bolt) with a bondus allen wrench.

----------soon to change the hydro pump pulley-----

Has anyone changed the upper belt pulley for higher cutter speed?


----------



## Mowingman

This is an interesting thread, and i have watched it for a long time.
My conclusion is this: The best upgrade you could make if you have this machine, is to sell it, and buy a different brand of stump grinder. A Carlton machine, would be your best choice, from my experience. However, almost any other brand commonly available would be better than these Vermeers.
Jeff


----------



## Bigstumps

I changed the ratio on my old Rayco Super JR along time ago(before I sold it.) Rayco had changed the ratio on their new machines at the time.

I slowed mine down. This increases the torque. I found that with higher head speeds it would cut like mad with sharp teeth, but the minute they get dull at all the power went away really quickly. 

With a slower speed and more torque I find the machine is not as sensitive to the sharpness of the teeth. It still prefers sharp teeth and is more efficient with them, but a little dullness doesn't completely kill it.


----------



## stumper63

Jeff,

I don't know what you base your experience your conclusions on but I have had a very remarkable experience with my 2003 Vermeer 252. Sure, it won't outcut a higher horsepower machine, not the issue. My machine has almost 3900 hours on it with the same Kohler 25 hp engine, never touched the engine other than religious maintenance. Starts up every day, day in, day out. NEVER has not started right up. 

Some on this thread complain about the 3-wheeled machine but I LOVE it, let's me get into places that a 4-wheeled machine never could. Keep the duals on and it is every bit as stable on slopes as a 4-wheeled machine, IMO. NEVER tipped mine over. 

No issues with the frame, hydaulics, or engine. What do you want out of a machine with that many hours??? I hear about issues with Carlton, replacing cutter wheel bearing and belts that are hundreds of dollars each at less than a hundred hours. My cutter wheel belts last 700 hours and are about $30. Cutter wheel bearings last 500-700 hours, are $82 bucks each. I'm no loyal Vermeer fan, but I feel the 252 has given me way more than I could have expected when I got it 6 years ago.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to have a Carlton 4012 with the 44hp Kubota engine, 4wd, blade, remote, etc. Demo'd the 33 hp machine a couple years back at the factory. But I don't have 30K yet to spend. And it does seem like the Vermeer 352 has had more than its share of problems, can't recommend one but then again, I have never operated one. But I think Vermeer has it right with the older 252's. You can forget about the operator presence sytem on the new ones, useless. I'm full-time in the stump business only and all I use is the 252 and an Alpine Magnum, suits me just fine.

Making these inexpensive upgrades has turned my machine into a much better one. What does a new one cost, I haven't checked lately, but probably isn't over $15K. Was $12.3K six years ago. 

I know the engine has got to fail sometime soon, but then I'll do the upgrade to the 35hp Vanguard and away we go for another 6 years. I spent about $300 replacing the boom pivot bearings and shaft and bushings this past winter and it's almost as tight as new.

So how many hours did you put on a 252 before you figured out the best thing to do is sell it????? Better be way over 4000 my friend....

stumper63


----------



## TreeClimber57

stumper63 said:


> thanks plyscamp,
> I was also thinking that you could increase the ground speed by changing the small sprocket on hydraulic drive motor for the wheels and increasing chain length a few links. But this would seem to decrease the power though increasing the speed, used to do this with dirt bikes years ago. With your modification have you noticed any decrease in hill climbing power, or is it just the same with more speed? Does the increased rpm's of the pump pulley increase the flow or the pressure?
> thanks for another good idea!
> 
> Stumper63



I am looking back through these.. see some possible issue with increasing pump speed (maybe -- some whine, etc).. would not just putting on a higher flow pump not be better idea.. or am I out to lunch here. Want to upgrade mine this spring.. and looking at options.


----------



## stumper63

As long as just increasing the pulley size works, what's not to like? Some guys on here have done it a long time ago and had no problems. It's a 10 minute job and, I forget, cost like $50. My pump does make a slight whine that it did not do before the pulley upgrade, but barely noticeable.

A new pump would have to be significantly more. Of course, a higher flow pump would be optimal. Let us know if you go that route and post the pump info if you would.

Stumper63


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## Hometown Tree

*got a quick question guys*

Hey guys, enjoyed reading all the threads about my 252, already done all the bearings and belts and a new motor, but i got a lot of play in the wheels, like it keeps rolling a little forward or back and lets the machine try to bite too much and wants to choke it down. What ya think, is it the pins or the hole through the wheel. Haven't seen this one on here. thanks, Ken


----------



## TreeClimber57

Hometown Tree said:


> Hey guys, enjoyed reading all the threads about my 252, already done all the bearings and belts and a new motor, but i got a lot of play in the wheels, like it keeps rolling a little forward or back and lets the machine try to bite too much and wants to choke it down. What ya think, is it the pins or the hole through the wheel. Haven't seen this one on here. thanks, Ken



Likely a silly question to you.. but you do have both wheels locked ?


----------



## robertjinnes

*Hometown Tree rolling machine*

As you suggest. Possibly the pins and holes but more likely the drive chains. Keep the pressure up on your tires and also be aware of piled up grindings under the tires. I'm guessing that what occurs is the whole machine starts to bounce. The harder the stump, the dryer the stump, the duller the cutters, the smaller size bite that can be taking. Vermeer recommends moving the machine forward in 4-6 inche increments but you can sweep faster, lower the cutter in larger increments and not overload the machine if you only move it 2-3 inches. Also you should only be cutting between just slightly (2 to 3inches) below the center height of the cutter wheel and not going down as far as the bottom center. (3 to 4 inches before). Higher than indicated makes the machine want to climb up the stump and lower than indicated makes the machine want to drive into the stump-- Either one results in starting to jump, dig and stall (choke down as you described). Bob the Treeman


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## stumper63

How many hours on your machine? If it's alot then it is probably a combo problem.
1. Chain, make sure it is tensioned properly, if it's loose it will result in excess wheel movement. Replace if it's very old, costs like $12. 

2. Wheel lock pins and drive plate worn. Mine's pretty bad, but alot of hours on machine. The drive side plate is part of the sprocket too, so don't want to replace that whole piece, it's a bit expensive. Gonna try to figure out how to weld some plates on to take up the wear. New pins would help too.


----------



## purplewg

I agree with robertjinnes. My Rayco was doing something very similar and popping when backing off the trailer. I noticed the chain (drive) was loose. I adjusted the drive motor to take up the slop and it is fine now. No popping and no drift on the stump like before.


----------



## purplewg

stumper63 said:


> How many hours on your machine? If it's alot then it is probably a combo problem.
> 1. Chain, make sure it is tensioned properly, if it's loose it will result in excess wheel movement. Replace if it's very old, costs like $12.
> 
> 2. Wheel lock pins and drive plate worn. Mine's pretty bad, but alot of hours on machine. The drive side plate is part of the sprocket too, so don't want to replace that whole piece, it's a bit expensive. Gonna try to figure out how to weld some plates on to take up the wear. New pins would help too.



MIG weld the holes and redrill.


----------



## Hometown Tree

sure but it will roll forward about an inch or so and drives me crazy with grabbing too much and binding the motor


----------



## Hometown Tree

thanks everyone for the info.


----------



## TreeClimber57

*M1 Cutting System.*

Has anybody ever tried this cutting wheel and their teeth?

Comments?

http://www.leonarditreecare.com/M1/M1-Over.html#


----------



## ozzy42

Just stumbled apon this thread.

This is a simple mod [if you can weld a little bit]
to actually make use of the annoying safety bar .
Made simply with some 1x1 and some expanded metal.

Grind stump ,lower bar ,shove mulch over stump hole,go over lawn with a plastic rake.

I have done this to 2 of my own grinders ,and on my cousin's in ark.
Works great.

Btw,the reason for the expanded metal is 1,it's lite,and 2,it does not obstruct your view when folded up with a bungee,like most people do with the guard anyway.
Got the idea from seeing the chip blade on my friends bigger rayco that still had all the paint on it because they put it on the wrong end of the machine.





Hope it helps .



BTW also .
Love the idea of the undersize pulley to make the ##### locomote faster.
Gonna look into that for sure.


----------



## ApexTreeService

*cool*



ozzy42 said:


> Just stumbled apon this thread.
> 
> This is a simple mod [if you can weld a little bit]
> to actually make use of the annoying safety bar .
> Made simply with some 1x1 and some expanded metal.
> Grind stump ,lower bar ,shove mulch over stump hole,go over lawn with a plastic rake.
> 
> I have done this to 2 of my own grinders ,and on my cousin's in ark.
> Works great.
> 
> Btw,the reason for the expanded metal is 1,it's lite,and 2,it does not obstruct your view when folded up with a bungee,like most people do with the guard anyway.
> Got the idea from seeing the chip blade on my friends bigger rayco that still had all the paint on it because they put it on the wrong end of the machine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hope it helps .
> 
> 
> 
> BTW also .
> Love the idea of the undersize pulley to make the ##### locomote faster.
> Gonna look into that for sure.



DAMN THAT'S AWSOME! Crap, I wish I wouldn't have cut mine off! I have wished the whole time I had a blade. Well guess I'll be welding one up.


----------



## robertjinnes

*Not an SC252 upgrade, just a maintainance question*

Has anyone replaced the bushings under the belly of the beast for the main up/down pivot shaft? The shaft is 1.25 diameter with a 1 inch thread on one end and cross bolt on the other.-- Simple you say. Pull the bolt, loosen the nut and it should just push out. I can't even budge it with a 2 1/2 pound hammer. Should I torch heat to expand the frame collars OR Cut out the center section of the shaft and then drill the stubs to relieve pressure and knock out the stubs, OR use the 1 inch threaded end with spacer collars and pull it out? HELP HELP HELP


----------



## stumper63

I have heard others had your same issue. I just did mine a few months ago, unbelievably the shaft slid right out with light tapping. And the bushings are split so they tapped right out too. I did keep mine greased pretty good so that maybe helped, but the shaft and bushings were really worn after about 3800 hours.

Do you have the engine/boom suspended and a little pressure on the hoist? will take the weight off the bolt/bushings.

It will be worth the effort, with the new shaft and bushings it tightened almost as good as new.

Stumper63


----------



## arbor pro

ozzy42 said:


> Just stumbled apon this thread.
> 
> This is a simple mod [if you can weld a little bit]
> to actually make use of the annoying safety bar .
> Made simply with some 1x1 and some expanded metal.
> 
> Grind stump ,lower bar ,shove mulch over stump hole,go over lawn with a plastic rake.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> Any twisting/bending issues? Has the mod held up well? I like the idea. Like you said, might as well make use of an otherwise annoying feature.


----------



## ozzy42

arbor pro said:


> ozzy42 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just stumbled apon this thread.
> 
> This is a simple mod [if you can weld a little bit]
> to actually make use of the annoying safety bar .
> Made simply with some 1x1 and some expanded metal.
> 
> Grind stump ,lower bar ,shove mulch over stump hole,go over lawn with a plastic rake.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> Any twisting/bending issues? Has the mod held up well? I like the idea. Like you said, might as well make use of an otherwise annoying feature.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has held up very well.
> Only pushing mulch ,it is traction limited,if you grab too much,wheels will spin until you lift the boom a little bit.
> 
> 
> The only wear problem I've had is on the back side where the original bar the hoop swings on will eventually bend where the hoop meetes the stationary part of the boom,mostly from just flinging the hoop forward and letting it bounce prior to use.
> Easy fix with a small piece of angle and some flatstock .
> 
> Build the blade with the bottom just touching the ground while the cutter teeth are 3-4 inches above ground .
> No need to lock it in the down position while pushing.
> The weight itself will keep it down while pushing mulch.
> Use the up-down lever to graze the top of the lawn.
> 
> 
> Oh yeah, almost forgot .
> When in the upright position the top of the blade will rest on the exhaust pipe of the muffler.
> After about a year and a half or so it was denting the pipe .
> I just welded a small rest coming up from the plate that runs paralell to the main belts [motor -to-jackshaft] for it to sit on and a bungee to hold it up,but it will usually stay up by itself until you get down deep in the ground.
> 
> 
> Material used was med wall 1x1 and some expanded metal.[nothing too heavy]
> I made it concave by notching the 2 longer pcs of 1x1 on the blade abot 6-7 inches fom the end bent them in a bit ,then welded them back together.
> 
> I would make the blade first ,then tack weld outside the existing hoop with it straight up and down with the boom in correct height ,then add 2 diagonals from the bottom corners of the blade going back to the hoop to triangulate.
> 
> Remember to keep the width the same as the grinder.
> 
> 
> I suck at posting pics,but it's a simple build.
> 
> 
> We want pics when you GIT-R-DONE.
Click to expand...


----------



## robertjinnes

*Response to stumper 63*

My machine is actually a 222. Previously a rental machine-- Hours unknwn but HIGH for sure. This machine may be slightly different than the 252. I ended up cutting the welds that secure the steel collars onto the side plates. Popped those collars loose and then finally the shaft started to move with the big hammer. There are no grease fitting. The bushings are a very hard plastic. The shaft WAS Chrome Plated but due to all the wear had long since worn away and the shaft is locally worn in by about .020 on the front and back where the force is applied. The bushings are worn to a sloppy loose fit on the shaft and the shaft was actually wearing on the center portion of the stepped sleeve the bushings were in. I split the bushings with a SAWZALL and they simply fell out. Now its just new bushings and shaft and a little artwork with my mig welder to reweld the collars, using the shaft for alignment. Do you have the parts manual for the 252? A PDF or two of the exploded view of that area and the bill of material would be great to compare to the 222 manual. I may convert to what sounds like a probable upgrade from the 222 to the 252. To all Vermeer owners--- Are you aware that you can get an Operators Manual and a Parts Manual just by registering your machine and requesting the manuals? Bob the Treeman


----------



## Plyscamp

For those of you with welding ability that removed the annoying safety bar. We modified Craftsman Tractor snow blades to snap on and off the cutting wheel of our SC252's. Two hooks slide over the cutter wheel shaft that are welded to the back side of the blade. And we fabricated a quick release latch at the top of the cutter wheel guard. I would post pictures but I have not figured out how to do that. However you can see it at the link below.

We have been using these blades for about one year now, saved us 2 hours clean up on the first job we used it on.

http://sandiego.craigslist.org/esd/grd/1741744785.html


----------



## jhg

I just aquired a 252 

I was lucky to find a one owner machine but the bushings are really sloppy, especially on the swing cylinders. I am also changing out the lift pivot bushings to needle bearings.
This is a late '97 machine and already had the three v belt on the lower end rather than the poly belt. That saved me 160.00 since I'd have bought Vermeer's kit.

No one has mentioned this, but after looking at the pillow block bearings I got from Vermeer why not just press out the worn bearings and drop in new ones? With an extra set down time is no problem. Have not priced the bearings inside the pillows yet, but am sure they are WAY less than the 76.00 each I dropped at Vermeer. 

My cutter wheel is just about toast and since I got my yellow jackets for almost nothing they will buy me time as the pockets lay on the wheel face differently -across all the wear from the Pro pockets, essentially negating the wear - until I decide to buy another wheel. (Multi Tip). I did have to file the ridges that had formed flush with the wheel face before installation of the new YJ pockets though.
I bought my needle bearings from Motion Industries. The full set of eight bearings, with shipping, came to under 51.00.

Anyway, thanks for all the great info here.

J-


----------



## stumper63

jhg,

what were the other two needle bearings for, I count only two for the lift cylinder, and four for the two swing cylinders?

Part #s? Did you use same Timkens as Plyscamp's post awhile back?

Thanks,

Stumper63


----------



## jhg

Hey Stumper

I also changed the bushings on the lift pivot to needle bearings. I don't know what brand I am getting with those. I just gave the bearing guy @ Motion Ind. the ID/OD and width.

I'll have a new machine by the time I'm done. Well, actually a new 1640hr machine with a 500hr motor. I even re-packed the wheel bearings and cleaned the pre-filter screen in the hydraulic tank...and its stored under a warm blanky.


Joshua, who knows his machine inside and out now.


----------



## wayne1966

*Sc252 with 18hp engine - need more cutting power*

I just got a sc252 as a gift (from a friend who passed away), It has a new engine on it, but it is only a 18hp engine. It cuts VERY slow and boggs down alot. Any ideas how I can make it cut quicker, other than replacing the engine. The engine is BRAND NEW. Any help will be apprieciated.


----------



## stumper63

Sorry Wayne, don't know why they would have done that to you. 18hp is way small. The 27hp Kohler that they have been putting on the 252's for years now aren't bad, but for a couple hundred more you can get the 35hp Vanguard.

You got it as a gift, now spend about $2500 or so to make it work for ya. You could get a few bucks for the existing engine.

Stumper63


----------



## albertflores

*2005 SC252 Stump Grinder*

Does anyone know how to disable sweep, I have precision governor model E258 not computer box??

Please help, I've spent quite a bit trying to get it running now I need speed.


----------



## ApexTreeService

open the lid, reach in to the far right (front), and unplug one of the 3 (or4) plugs from the approx. 2"x2" box in the top right hand corner.


----------



## ApexTreeService

Few tips: I just changed to Amsoil Synthetic 5-30 universal hydraulic transmission fluid, and now there is no warm up time, the hydraulics are as quite and fast at start up as warm. Just put a light on, on the angled part of the motor/jack-shaft double v belt cover. Rubber housing, 55w Harbor Freight tractor light, wired through a simple on/ off switch connected to hot. The ground, is made through the light housing bolt you bolt to chassis. I just figured this out, as a side effect of towing the machine without a trailer (much much easier, highly recommend) by freewheeling the tires by disengaging the wheel hubs: to maneuver tight corners on hard surfaces, or in general, reach down, and disengage the wheel hub closest to you, if it's stuck, rock forward and back with left hand on controls, and disengage with right hand. You can make turns about 3 times as fast! I use Greenteeth, I love them, and if you keep them rotated, they cut VERY fast, and take banana peel size chunks off. Install an Amsoil Bypass auxiliary oil filter to get the fine dirt that really does damage. You can install it in like an hour, and probably double the life of motor?


----------



## ApexTreeService

*No drive power, SOS*

Just wonder if anyone knows why the hydraulics (low drive power, and slower boom speed) in my machine have lost power awhile ago? Happened before I sped up hydraulic pump with pulley change, then the pulley change fixed it temporarily. I just replaced and tightened the belt, no fix. I can barely make it up a hill. Is it the pump, the speed knob, some valve somewhere? Fluid full, filter new, screen in bottom of fluid clear, new tight belt. Worn out pump? Can the impeller action of the motor even wear out?


----------



## Bigstumps

Sounds like a pressure problem. Pressure = power Flow = speed. 

At the pump there are two hoses - a suction hose from the tank and a pressure hose to the valve. Where the pressure hose goes into the inlet section of the valve there is usually a relief. This relief is normally adjustable - some type of cover over the adjustment then usually an allen or slot screw adjustment. Turning it in, clockwise, puts more force against the relief spring and adjusts the system pressure. You really need to have a gauge in line while you do this. Turn in the relief - operate a function, head up, so it goes to full stroke and causes the system to go over relief - this will show you where your relief pressure is set. Don't know where Vermeer sets it but 2000PSI ought to be safe.

If turning the relief valve does not increase pressure your pump may be bad. When a pump goes bad a lot of times it is able to pump fluid (make flow) at lower pressures but when it needs to deliver at higher pressures it cannot.

When you put on a bigger pump - depending on how large you went - you may should have increased the suction line size. Starving a pump for fluid will cause cavitation and ruin the pump.

Let us know what you find.


----------



## stumper63

I don't think he put on a different pump, just a smaller pulley on the pump to increase pump speed, hence flow, something a bunch of us have done to increase the drive, swing, and up/down speed.

I've done it one two 252's now. Had power up the wazoo on the first. I will say the second 252 won't spin the tires on dry pavement if up against a stationary object like the first one, but it may be a worn pump too. But it works just fine.

Apex, let us know what the cure is when you find it.

Stumper63


----------



## ApexTreeService

Update: I took it to a hydraulic repair man locally because I didn't want to buy hydraulic gauges etc and use up my time.

The pump has a bad seal, he said it had normal pressure until a load was applied then the pressure dropped. Said a seal was cavitating. 

Does anyone have a part number and vendor for a pump seal kit?


----------



## stumper63

Vermeer carries one, but it's quite expensive, couple hundred bucks I think. New pump is about $395 if I remember right. 

Stumper63


----------



## ApexTreeService

New info:

Hydraulic pump is a Webster YB series pump, model 29YB, 2000psi and 4000 rpm max. Actual 3d diagram and all motor specs at this link: Webster YB Series Hydraulic Gear Pumps, MYB Unidirectional Hydraulic Motors, Birotational Hydraulic Motors

Pump model number is: 29YBADO12-2LB, this pump was built by Webster, but I guess Sauer-Danfoss took over making parts for it awhile ago because it is out of production. Now, Quality Control Corp., as of 2010, has acquired the Webster B, YB, and YC series and manufactures all parts and complete replacement pumps.

Quality Control Corp
Tim Dreeland
(708) 887-6269
7315 W. Wilson Ave.
Harwood Heights, IL 60706
708-887-5400
708-887-5009 (fax)
[email protected]

I called Sauer-Danfoss and they didn't know what I was talking about for parts, so apparently they don't cover this line anymore? Although, the 2 page rebuild kit instructions included with my rebuild kit had Sauer-Danfoss logo.

Now for the good part. My pump, running over 4000 rpm for over a year with the pulley conversion to increase ground speed, and a rental unit originally to boot, has gears and bearing with hardly any wear according to the professional hydraulic mechanic I hired to fix my machine. The inner seal assembley (black oval seal about 2" across) had "cavitated", and was missing an 1/8th inch chunk allowing high pressure to leak back into the low pressure side.

Now for the part numbers:

rebuild kit complete with everything below: 163s1009, cost me $69.95 plus shipping.
main seal assembly: 48000
shaft seal: 46255
anti-extrusion block: 38029
wear plate: 36163-1
insert gasket: 38028
insert bridging: 38027
o-ring: 163m6036 (2 needed)
key square: 21021

I am attaching the 2 page repair instructions to this post. Don't replace your motor or buy from Vermeer, $82 and my pump will be like new! Also, looks very easy to do even though I hired a mechanic to do it cause he has flow meter, line plugs, and TIME!

Hope this helps everyone because I could not find one thing on the internet about a repair kit, only 3 people locally were able to identify the pump and get a price for me (some double others, and still took 2 weeks to get even though told them 2nd day air), and the only links on the internet were to two posts on this forum about part numbers. Now you have it all, diagrams, everything.

Here are the instructions and diagram.
View attachment 201544
View attachment 201545


----------



## stumper63

BIG help for all of us. Thanks for chasing down what I couldn't get done! BTW, did you ever get a quote from Vermeer on their repair kit?

Stumper63


----------



## ApexTreeService

stumper63 said:


> BIG help for all of us. Thanks for chasing down what I couldn't get done! BTW, did you ever get a quote from Vermeer on their repair kit?
> 
> Stumper63


 
Yes they do have it available, they have to order it, but it is over 2, I think it was $230 from what I remember. I called Vermeer of Washington cause computers at Utah Vermeer down. I bought my kit third party, although Quality Control Corp. says Webster parts "Now available only through QCC and authorized distributors", so, I'd try to order direct from them. Also, next time I'd just call and say I'm Apex Hydraulic, don't have an account but would like to set one up and get a part for a customer. Probably $30 direct.


----------



## ApexTreeService

*Update: Performance with 3" hydraulic pulley coversion and pump rebuild*

Mechanic said gears and bearings like new even though I have been running the faster pump/3" pulley conversion for 2 years now. It is quieter now after the rebuild, but still whines some. He said I should have no problems running it at it's max rpm of 4000. After the pump rebuild, all hydraulics are VERY fast and powerful. Almost (I said almost) too fast. I have to use the knob to decrease ground speed while grinding so it doesn't lurch forward. The boom speed at maximum speed is almost instant, meaning you can sweep chips aside, or get from one side of the hole to the other side if need be with almost no pauses. Boom is really fast! The machine actually wheelies and inch or two when grabbing forward, or, a lot when your changing direction if you don't watch what your doing. Tires are unstoppable. Was nice today cause again I can pull up on curbs and drive all terrain until the tires break loose. Hydraulics are fast and touchy. Kinda like driving a Bobcat, gotta be careful not to wheelie up, and nice and easy on boom so you don't grab too much.


----------



## stumper63

OK, probably been covered before, but thought I would pass this along:

To remove bearings from cutter wheel shaft or jackshaft, don't bother trying to pull them off. Use an angle grinder with a cutoff wheel to CUT the bearings apart, first the housing, then the outer bearing, then the bearings and retainer fall out, then you're just left with the inner race. Carefully cut most of the way through the race, trying to avoid cutting into the shaft. Cold chisel at the cut, a couple of whacks and the race splits right off or loosens enough to slide off whole. Even if you nick the shaft slightyly it won't hurt the performance, just file the burr and emery cloth it. Why didn't I think of it sooner??? Saves lots of frustration, takes about 5 minutes per bearing.

Trying out a new jackshaft belt for the first time. It's a Gates 2A 64, from Motion Industries. It's essentially like two factory single belts banded together. Since I'm running the 35hp Vanguard it should handle the increased torque a bit better, though the factory setup worked pretty good. Plyscamp uses the 2B 65, it's a larger belt that doesn't quite fit into the factory pullys, so I thought I would give this a go and see what happens. Cost about $20, so we'll see how it does. Will report later.

Also trying out new cutter wheel bearings, Turner UCP208 24 is the model, got them at McGuire Bearing. A fellow grinder up in Seattle area has over 1,000 hours on a set of these, cost only $32 each. Vermeer bearings are now $86. I'm running a 1999 model 252 that has welded in guides for the bearings. These bearing housings are about 1/16" too long, so had to grind a bit off the end. If you have a 2003 or newer 252 it has adjustable guides so you wouldn't have to grind, just back off the adjustment screw a little.
Here's the other thing he has done: he has only greased the bearings once in that 1000 hours, and that just a couple of pumps. Seems completely counter-intuitive, but the rep at McGuire bearing said he had it right. Once you pass grease all the way through the seal you've compromised the seal, then must keep purging every day. Anyway, I thought I'd try not greasing and see what happens. Will let you know how they hold up. I usually only get about 400-500 hours or so from Vermeer bearings on the cutter shaft, greasing daily. Maybe I'll save in grease cartridges too.

Stumper63


----------



## ApexTreeService

Another way to remove a bearing off a shaft, and faster, is to use a cutoff tool to get rid of the outer race, cage, and such, then your left with just the pressed on race on the shaft. To get this off quick, I use oxy-acetalyne cutting tip. Just cut the race at an angle so the flame doesn't touch the shaft. This is how shops do it, and it really is fast and easy to get to tight areas where a cutoff wheel won't get.


----------



## Bigstumps

Bearings are different. Some are made to purge - the seal is designed to let grease and pressure out as you grease. Some bearings are not purgeable (sic) and should not have grease pumped in them until it comes out the seal - it will get ruined.

I tried a set of non-purgeable on my Rayco - didn't run for 100 hours - our soil here is sandy and I suspect that got in there.

It will be fun to see what happens. Never heard of that brand of bearing.


----------



## stumper63

Apex, sounds like another good way, I don't have a torch setup though.

Bigstumps, not much sand here, more clay, some rock, so we'll see what the experiment yields. I did put in 4 pumps in each bearing to start, nothing purged, just in case factory didn't fully grease them.

Stumper63


----------



## Plyscamp

Just for giggles go to E Bay or Google and type in that UPC208-24 Bearing part number and you can probably by them for about $20.00 a piece like I do. 

By the way Stumper63 I finally got the rebuilt pump and motor for the big beast 252. Just waiting on a couple of valves and hoses and the Alien will finally be running.


----------



## stumper63

Plyscamp,

Yeah, I saw those, but for this test wanted to get exactly what the stumper up in Seattle used, still way better than Vermeer's pricing. Got a day's grinding in on them, so far no issues. Amazing how quiet things run with good bearings, you kind of forget once they start making a little noise.
 
Have you ever tried NOT greasing the bearings as I posted above? Results? How long do you usually get out of a set of bearings?

Glad to hear the 252Alien is about ready. PM or email some pics when u can.

Talked to Keith a few days ago, looks like he's making progress on the new MultiTip teeth, may be ready to beta-test in a few weeks. Bet he'll send you some.

Stumper63


----------



## Plyscamp

I can't remember the last time we changed a bearing. We give them a pump or two about once a month. I had a bearing guy tell me a couple of years ago we were killing bearings by over greasing them, We have been using the cheap bearings for quite a while. I dont think we ever wore one out, we usually hit someting real hard and with the extra power we break the outer housing, At 20.00 a piece who cares I can afford to break one or two a year.


----------



## demigh0d

*Source for 163s1009 rebuild kit*

Who did you order the kit from? Quality Control Corp just quoted me $107.31

Thanks,
Duane



ApexTreeService said:


> rebuild kit complete with everything below: 163s1009, cost me $69.95 plus shipping.
> main seal assembly: 48000
> shaft seal: 46255
> anti-extrusion block: 38029
> wear plate: 36163-1
> insert gasket: 38028
> insert bridging: 38027
> o-ring: 163m6036 (2 needed)
> key square: 21021


----------



## DocUSA

*Better ground SC252*

My SC252 was getting sluggish when starting. I measured the voltage at the starter and it bounced all over from 10 all the way down to 7 volts. I measured the resistance from the motor housing to the battery negative terminal and found it to be near 10 ohms. The resistance varied from 10 to 50 ohms depending on where the boom swing was. Way too high! When I thought about it, I realized there is no direct metal to metal path for the return (negative) path. Every path goes through multiple pins that are greased or rusty. A quick trip to the local salvage yard and I returned with a three feet piece of #6 stranded insulated copper wire (looks like old starter cable or welding cable) for $3.00. I polished an old piece of copper pipe the wire just fit into and cut 2 2" pieces (length is not critical). I next smashed one end of each piece in a vise until it was flat for about 1" and drilled a 1/4" hole in each flat section. Trim about 3/4" insulation from each end of the wire and solder the pipe pieces on. Remember to heat the pipe (not the wire) and flow the solder into the strands of the wire. I used a Benz-A-Matic propane torch and played the flame over the pipe to keep from getting the joint too hot. Leave a small piece of wire exposed from the pipe - don't butt the insulation against the pipe.

I found a bolt on the motor I could attach the wire to. The hole in the pipe was a little small but a minute with a rat-tail file fixed that. Clean - Clean and clean again the housing, use new washers or clean the old one, and attach the wire by replacing the bolt. Run the wire where it will not pinched when the motor swings. Attach the wire to the motor or base plate with a tie wrap to relieve the strain on the solder joint.

At the other end find an existing bolt or drill and tap a 1/4-20 hole. I found a bolt doing nothing near the opening where the hydraulic and electrical lines entered the big metal case. Clean - Clean and clean again the area under the bolt. Remove all paint and grease, you must have bright shiny metal for a good electrical connection. Attach your wire, tie wrap it down, and check it is clear when the motor swings side to side. The wire can flex but there can not be any movement at the soldered ends or it will break. Spray a little battery terminal protector on each end to help fight corrosion.

Result: WOW, starts now and as a bonus the charger for the battery (built into the motor) now keeps the battery up.

I am a retired electronics engineer and just for fun ran some numbers:
resistance of #6 wire is 0.000465 ohms/foot (so I have 0.001395 ohms of wire)
resistance of wire to metal - 0 ohms (I made sure the metal was shiny and tightened the bolts firmly)
voltage drop in the wire: V=DIR where D=distance in feet I= current (I measured almost 40A at start) R=resistance of wire/foot
so V=(3)(40)(0.000465)=0.0558 volts, not very much!
resistance from motor housing to battery negative terminal: too low for my digital volt/ohmmeter to measure - a very good thing

End result: for about $4.00 and a little over an hour (not counting the fun time at the scrap yard), my SC252 starts much easier and faster and charges much better. Money and time well spent.


----------



## stumper63

Hey Doc, thanks for the post, now educate me as I'm not too experienced in electrical stuff. I've had a couple 252's now, haven't ever had a charging/voltage problem yet.

Why do you need a separate wire to go from boom to frame? Doesn't the negative battery cable that runs to the engine mount bolt provide the ground path back to the battery, since starter is bolted directly to engine block?
I can understand if you started bolting on accessories and tried to ground to frame where there could be a problem, but since both the electric clutch has a ground wire going to engine block and the starter is a direct-connect, how does there come to be a charging problem?

Just curious,

Stumper63


----------



## topdrop

*operator presence*



gr8scott72 said:


> Disable it? :greenchainsaw:



I too have been having troubles with the operator presence any ideas on how to disable anyone... it dose not appear to be the same simple soulution as removing the fuse for the sweep...hope this thread is still alive there has been some awsome info in here for 252 owners. cheers


----------



## Arboristo

Now, to start with, you cannot wear rubber or (too dry) leather gloves when operating the handles, but I guess you figured that our yourself.


I've had troubles with the operators presence only once. I searched for hours, changed the computer with one from another sc252. But it turned out the solenoid was broken. So change it and likely you'll be fine again.


----------



## derby66

*vermeer 222 clutch torque setting*

Just put a new bearing in my clutch assembly,was hoping someone has the torque setting for the shaft bolt that holds cluth onto shaft? Thanks derby


----------



## stumper63

Probably depends on if yours has the Kohler 25hp or Honda engine. If the Kohler the service manual says a Grade 5 5/8-18 fine thread bolt torque is 145 ft. lbs. The Honda bolt is much smaller, not sure what that would be.

Stumper63


----------



## NCgrinder

Starting to round up the parts for a 35 Briggs conversion on my 252. At the same time I will do the 1 1/2 " countershaft conversion, needle-bearing swingarm,new hyd. pump,new clutch, re-gear the drive sprocket,etc... 

I also want to do the 3 belt conversion on the c/shaft to cutter shaft at the same time.. Anyone have the part numbers for a 4" 3 groove (c/shaft) & a 7" 3 groove (cutter shaft) pulley? Will also need P/N for 1 1/2" hub for the 4" pulley.. I want to have all the parts that I can ready, so I won't be down ,stuck trying to track down everything..The companies locally play pingpong with you when you carry in pulleys and try to get them to change sizes ,widths,grooves etc. They don't want to deal with it ,so they send you somewhere else...and the local Vermeer dealer is outta sight on prices

The more part numbers I have ,the less downtime I'll have.
Thanks,
Stan


----------



## Wherewolf

*Swing Bushings and drilling the Pins*

I'm curious about those that have replaced the swing bushings with bearings and drilled your pins. Did anyone cut a shallow grease groove around the pin in the center of where the bearing rides? Or is that overkill?
I'm getting ready to drill my pins and wanted to find out if I should bother. I suppose we could pop the bolts and spin the pin 1/2 way every 6 months or so....

Thanks for the great idea,

Wherewolf


----------



## Plyscamp

I drilled mine Vertically then Horizontilly at the center of the bearing, this allows the grease to come out on both sides of the shaft. I dont think you would gain much with a groove.


----------



## ApexTreeService

*Check out the new paint job.*

$650 to paint it. My guy went above and beyond. I have my company number, email address, and "stump removal" red 3M scotchcal reflective lettering on white back ground (company colors). I have to paint the trailer new cause it looks so horrible, he said $150. I'm on that.View attachment 239943


----------



## timberrrrrr

*Bigger Engine*

Hey folks-

Been following this thread . . . Installed smaller pulley on Hydraulic motor, replaced cutter wheel drive sheaves and belts to use 5/8 belts "B" belts for less slippage.

This machine doesn't quite have enough power for me, but gets into really tight access situations nicely! 

I am going to install a larger engine. I noticed Plyscamp installed the 35hp Briggs, I am considering the 40hp Kohler. 

Anyone have experience enough to answer if this machine is too light for 40 hp and will maybe climb the stumps while grinding or other issues?

I will presume it will smoke the current clutch and so will need to be upgraded to a larger clutch the 352 uses Ogura's 527 323 gt5c-ve01 and this would be an option. 

I would also upgrade the belts from the engine to 5/8" as well

By the way, the 40hp is not much more weight or size difference.

Just looking for feedback from those with larger engines installed as to whether they would shy away from 40hp or not


----------



## Arboristo

timberrrrrr, why would you choose a 40HP Kohler? 
Quite a few guys on the forum here report happy results with the Vanguard 35HP...


I'm also in de process of converting my late 2008 sc252 with the Vanguard. My only concern is actually the extra weight of the vanguard. It weights about 29 lbs (13kg) more than the Kohler 27hp does. I cannot put on duals as I have to move through very narrow gates most of the time.

I'm a little worried the sc252 will tip easily with the heavier engine. How are the experiences on this subject so far?


----------



## timberrrrrr

Arboristo said:


> timberrrrrr, why would you choose a 40HP Kohler?
> Quite a few guys on the forum here report happy results with the Vanguard 35HP...
> 
> 
> I'm also in de process of converting my late 2008 sc252 with the Vanguard. My only concern is actually the extra weight of the vanguard. It weights about 29 lbs (13kg) more than the Kohler 27hp does. I cannot put on duals as I have to move through very narrow gates most of the time.
> 
> I'm a little worried the sc252 will tip easily with the heavier engine. How are the experiences on this subject so far?





I agree with you, the Briggs 35hp has been a successful upgrade.

I'm just thinking that it is only 8hp bigger, for an extra $500, I can go 13hp bigger with the 40hp.

Just don't know if that is too much for the size of this machine.

The weight difference between the 27 hp (94lb) the 40hp (132 lb) and the Briggs 35 hp (125 lb) I can see being an issue. I feel it would be a good idea to have the double tires on because the machine can be tippy without a taller heavier engine.

The tires come off quickly, I think it is wise to use them


----------



## Plyscamp

I would not run a stock 252 without the extra wheels. If your having to go through a lot of narrow areas , get a battery operated impact gun and remove and put back on as necessary. Or live with it on it's side occaisionally.





timberrrrrr said:


> I agree with you, the Briggs 35hp has been a successful upgrade.
> 
> I'm just thinking that it is only 8hp bigger, for an extra $500, I can go 13hp bigger with the 40hp.
> 
> Just don't know if that is too much for the size of this machine.
> 
> The weight difference between the 27 hp (94lb) the 40hp (132 lb) and the Briggs 35 hp (125 lb) I can see being an issue. I feel it would be a good idea to have the double tires on because the machine can be tippy without a taller heavier engine.
> 
> The tires come off quickly, I think it is wise to use them


----------



## Arboristo

So far I only tipped mine once in 3 years (the first time I used it). 

I'm considering getting the duals, especially when I'm getting the heavier Vanguard. 

Is unlocking possible with duals?


----------



## stumper63

Yes, no problem to unlock on side or the other, just have to reach inside a bit, you get used to it. USE the DUALS!

Stumper63


----------



## Justinboots

Hello to all!

I've been soaking in the wisdom from the site to make my SC252 better and better. I'm currently attempting the upgrade of the hydraulic pulley and am having difficulty removing the pump pulley. I see it has a keyway and I removed the two bolts from the sheave. I understand that I need to get the pulley to go back before the compression function of the sheave will release. How on earth do you get that pulley to move off the sheave? I've tried a large pipe with an ID larger than the OD of the sheave and banged it moderately with a hammer, but no luck. I don't want to damage the pulley or the pump. Any advice?

Thanks to all for your wisdom


----------



## timberrrrrr

Justinboots said:


> Hello to all!
> 
> I've been soaking in the wisdom from the site to make my SC252 better and better. I'm currently attempting the upgrade of the hydraulic pulley and am having difficulty removing the pump pulley. I see it has a keyway and I removed the two bolts from the sheave. I understand that I need to get the pulley to go back before the compression function of the sheave will release. How on earth do you get that pulley to move off the sheave? I've tried a large pipe with an ID larger than the OD of the sheave and banged it moderately with a hammer, but no luck. I don't want to damage the pulley or the pump. Any advice?
> 
> Thanks to all for your wisdom





After you take the two bolts out, screw them into the other two holes in the Bushing you took them out of. As you screw these down, alternately a couple of turns at a time, you will notice that the bushing is pushing itself out of the pulley. After you bottom out the bolts, if the bushing is not all of the way out of the pulley, you may need to get a small pulley puller at your local auto parts store to finish it off.

Good luck!


----------



## Justinboots

timberrrrrr said:


> After you take the two bolts out, screw them into the other two holes in the Bushing you took them out of. As you screw these down, alternately a couple of turns at a time, you will notice that the bushing is pushing itself out of the pulley. After you bottom out the bolts, if the bushing is not all of the way out of the pulley, you may need to get a small pulley puller at your local auto parts store to finish it off.
> 
> Good luck!



Thank you ! I will give this a try.


----------



## timberrrrrr

*40 hp Kohler*

Well just finished the upgrades to my 252 . . .

Jackshaft upgraded to 1 1/2"
Heavier duty bearings installed on Jackshaft
Sheaves on Jackshaft to motor changed to 3 belt 5/8"
Hydraulic sheave changed to 3 1/2"
40hp Kohler engine installed 

Only been 3 stumps so far, but yeehaw what a difference in the performance of this little stumper!

Thanks for the help in making this happen!


----------



## ApexTreeService

How much faster would you say it cuts? 10, 20, 50%?


----------



## timberrrrrr

ApexTreeService said:


> How much faster would you say it cuts? 10, 20, 50%?



At least 50% faster.

If you are even considering it and you use your 252 lots, it's a no brainer get the bigger engine.


----------



## Arboristo

My upgrade to 35hp Vanguard is almost ready. All there's left to fix is connecting the RPM sensor. On the model sc252 that I run the rpm sensor avoids ability to switch on clutch at higher revs than idle. If the sensor is disconnected or broken, it doesn't give a pulse to the computer and it will not be possible to turn on the cutting wheel. I'm not sure if this rpm sensor is going to work on the flywheel of the vanguard. So, considering to overrule the rpm sensor with a new wired connection.


----------



## Arboristo

Finally, my upgrade to 35HP is done. Also did the pulley conversion to 3".
I managed to fit the rpm sensor onto the Vanguard so the whole computer system, i.e. switch on safety and safety controls is still working like in original configuration. I also connected a digital hour meter onto the new engine.

Can't wait to do my first stump this week.


----------



## NCgrinder

*Sheave/bushing P/N's*

Gathering parts for my 252 Vanguard upgrade.
Can anyone supply P/N's for the following Sheaves/Bushings:
4"O.D. 3-groove (5/8") sheave & 1/1/2" bushing
7"O.D. 3-groove (5/8") sheave & 1 1/2 " bushing

All local sources seem to be staffed with ex-Autozone counter help...

Thanks, Stan NCgrinder


----------



## ironstumper

timberrrrrr said:


> Well just finished the upgrades to my 252 . . .
> 
> Jackshaft upgraded to 1 1/2"
> Heavier duty bearings installed on Jackshaft
> Sheaves on Jackshaft to motor changed to 3 belt 5/8"
> Hydraulic sheave changed to 3 1/2"
> 40hp Kohler engine installed
> 
> Only been 3 stumps so far, but yeehaw what a difference in the performance of this little stumper!
> 
> Thanks for the help in making this happen!



Timberrrrr, Wete you able to bolt the new motor in without modifications?


----------



## ironstumper

*252 Stock Ground Speed*



stumper63 said:


> Anyone out there willing to do a little test? Before making the mod's on my 252 I forgot to check the ground speed in stock form. Would someone with the stock setup be willing to do it so we know in real numbers what the improvements are? All you need to do is measure how far the machine moves at full throttle for 15 seconds, then multiply by four for ft./min. It won't be far, probably about 15 feet I'm guessing.
> 
> I couldn't find any info from Vermeer that had the ground speed for the 252.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Stumper63



Stumper 63, My machine is stock. It went 18ft in 15 secs.......72 ft. per min.

Thanks everybody who's been sharing. 

I was getting a bit disgusted with my 252's performance, would love a 60-80 hp machine. But couldn't justify the expense to my part time grinding income.

I ordered the 3" Sheave today.

Saving up the denaros for a new greenwheel at which point ,I will upgrade the jackshaft and cutter drive sheaves.....Then the motor  I think it'll be the 40hp Kohler.

Thanks again everyone


----------



## timberrrrrr

ironstumper said:


> Timberrrrr, Wete you able to bolt the new motor in without modifications?




No I had to modify the mounting plate by making it wider, I also had to make the tracks for it to go onto longer.

Well worth the effort and expense!


----------



## ironstumper

I got to try out the new setup today. So far just 2 modifications. The 3" hydraulic pulley mod. And new greenteeth, not even the full wheel, just the 6 main teeth that do the majority of the work. 900 series. WOW what a difference !! The ground speed is almost a full walking pace. And the chips were flying. I have been using Vermeers Pro Teeth for years, on both of my machines. I didn't think the cost of new pockets and teeth would be worth the investment. Man was I wrong, HUGE difference. One very happy boy 

Can't wait to get the 40 hp Kohler on that machine now, WooHoo!!


----------



## pro94lt

Plyscamp said:


> Just for giggles go to E Bay or Google and type in that UPC208-24 Bearing part number and you can probably by them for about $20.00 a piece like I do.
> 
> By the way Stumper63 I finally got the rebuilt pump and motor for the big beast 252. Just waiting on a couple of valves and hoses and the Alien will finally be running.



so have these been used for the cutter wheel bearings by anyone and held up well?


----------



## ApexTreeService

pro94lt said:


> so have these been used for the cutter wheel bearings by anyone and held up well?





Have never replace or greased my upper bearings. Have owned machine since 2003. Just replaced my cutter wheel bearings yesterday for the second time since owning the machine. Last time was 4 or 5 years ago. Never greased them either. First time I replaced them, bought new cast pillow block/bearing (UCP208-24 ) complete cause they were cheap. $15 now days on the net. Had to cut 1/8 steel spacer to put between block and Vermeer frame. Can't remember why I did this, but probably so cutter wheel shaft would not rub on belt housing. This time around, I reused the same cast housing, rotated (hammered) (easy) the bad bearings out, had one spare bearing insert from 4-5 years ago, bought another locally for $15. Then I just wire wheeled the cast housing where the bearing rotates into, tapped in a zerk fitting where there was not one before, and reassembled. We'll see if occasional Amsoil grease makes a difference in these. By the way easiest way to get the inner race off the cutter wheel shaft is to torch it. First if the bearing is intact, start by torching (Oxy-Acetylene metal cutting head) the roller balls out of the bearing (one minute process) so you can get the pillow block and outer race off, leaving only the inner race still pressed on the shaft. The you can have that torched off in literally two minutes. If you don't have a torch, go buy a portable unit from Harbor Freight for $80 or whatever they are. If you were to run/skim your hand along the pressed on race, that is how you want the actual flame to cut the race off. So heat the steel on the race at the end of the shaft, and start cutting with the oxygen and cut away the race until you see the shaft exposed, then move on to more of the race. So the flame will never be directed toward the shaft like this ----o (which works too, but can pit the shaft, but rather like this ____o , do this on one side (30-60 sec.) then the other side and race falls off. No damage, no grinding, no prob.


----------



## marne

Thanks for all the hints here.

So time for a small one from me.

Here is my upgrade or even waste, whatever you want to call it.

As my rusty exhaust was blown finally, I did some research as in my country Kohler parts are crazy expensive, and I didn't want to spend much money on a can that starts getting rusty on the spot again.

So I found an exhaust usually used on 27HP Kohlers installed on mud boats.
There seems to be a big comunity about this and their intention is to increase performance for getting another mph out of their boats.

So formerly this exhaust is intended to increase torque, hp and rpms on already optimized Kohler command engines (you know all the stuff with aircleaner, headwork and so on) due to its higher flow.
The gain is adviced to be around 5% ...
As my engine is stock, I don't expect anything performance wise, except of a leakproof stainless steel muffler that is still fine when upgrading the 27 to a 30HP Kohler, and years after - nothing more.

It's a direct bolt on. Sound is quiet and a bit Harley like, sounds just better than stock but not louder.
Improvement? Hard to say I think it is just imagination that the max. torque seems to be now at slightly higher rpms and it revs up again faster, I bet it's imagination.

A nice side effect is, that when I let the engine cool down after grinding and uninstall the duals, or tightening it on the trailer, the exhaust gases are not blown into my face anymore.

But who cares, it fits and works fine, if there a non noticable hp or ft/lb extra it's fine too. The downside is, this BPS is expensive.


----------



## ApexTreeService

Hey timberrrrr I was wondering how much the engine cost, and cost of other parts and if you have time part description and/or #'s. My Kohler 25 is aging and jackshaft bearings just went out so I'm considering a larger engine and Greenwheel.


----------



## pro94lt

Upgrades? ?? How about removing the drive sprocket Off the hydraulic motor? 2 set screws the keeper washer and a key anything I'm missing I've got no teeth left...


----------



## ozzy42

I'm going to be doing the pump heaven change here shortly. Can't stand how slow the machine walks. Its like Paul bearers walk,,Stephen pause,step pause,etc. Hurts my back,so no trainer. My question is this. Anyone mess around with the shelves size on the j shaft? Like changing the r and p in a car, gearing it up or down? 
Just curious.


----------



## ozzy42

Sorry about all the typos. I really need to check my typing when I post from my phone.


----------



## ApexTreeService

Just decided to do some testing. Let me give some insight. Remove all teeth and pockets but two pair opposite each other. Trust me, try it and you will believe. Right now, I am using two pair of angled green teeth pockets opposite (obviously) of each other. Wow. You can still bog the engine if you grab too much indicating enough cutter for the HP, but I barely bog the engine now due to much less parasitic loss of the other teeth. I would say I'm at least 30% faster cutting. Wonder why Greenwheel uses only 6 teeth at 0 and 180 degree, well this is why. Two pair of teeth, opposite is what I am running. The reason I started reducing and testing pocket number mainly was to reduce the number of teeth to swap out from sharp new teeth/clean soil, to dull teeth/ rocky soil. One job I may have soil with no rock and a huge stump. I will put in brand new teeth for a huge increase in cutting speed. Next job, if any pebbles are present I will switch back to used teeth. Stock, with 8 pairs of pockets and 16 teeth that's a lot of time. Now, 2 pair of pockets, and 4 teeth, that's 1/4 the time. Used to take me 20 minutes, now takes me 5. Plus, 1/4 the price, 1/4 the needed backup, only four teeth, who would of thought.
Trust me, go out in the morning, take off all your pockets except for two opposite each other, and love it when your machine rarely bogs down and your smile goes up!


----------



## pro94lt

So leave only 4 teeth?


----------



## pro94lt

Is this running the auto sweep? My only concern would be passing by wood and not grinding it may not even be an issue


----------



## ApexTreeService

Yes, leave only 4 teeth. No auto sleep. Don't worry about your concern, just try it : ). I should have realized this about 10 years ago after knowing full skip chain is faster cutting than full comp. Half the teeth, yet plenty to still bog the engine. Less to sharpen in both instances.


----------



## 066blaster

Is there any difference in balance of the wheel? Any vibration or is it smoother? Do the 4 teeth wear out substantially quicker?


----------



## ApexTreeService

No balance difference, teeth wear the same. Still smiling over here, try it.


----------



## defensiblespace

I'm about to order a 35 horse Briggs for my 1998 sc252. Is this the right engine? http://www.brandnewengines.com/613477-3079.aspx It has the 1-7/16" x 4-1/2" shaft. I just want to make sure this is the right one before I order it. Thanks.


----------



## NCgrinder

For the 34HP Kohler upgrade to my '00 252, check this thread : http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/252-kohler-34-hp-upgrade.268014/

Also, while down,I completely rebuilt the whole machine with all new shafts, bushings,and bearings , belts,etc ( after 14 yrs service , I thought it was time..!)

And to increase ground speed , I regeared the drive system.. Went from a 16 tooth sprocket on the drive motor to a 20 Tooth sprocket( $16.00 at the local bearing place).. Minor machining on the drive hub to clear adjuster bolts and Bada-bing...much faster machine..didn't seem to lose any power ... still climbs out of the hole over the grindings
Tried regearing the pump, as has been previously covered, and all I gained was a terrific "howl" from the overdriven pump due to cavitation...Went back to stock setup and decided the better way was to regear the motor/drive system...


----------



## ironstumper

Hey guys for your information (FYI) I did the three inch hydraulic pulley mod a year ago and I had the same high pitched squeal. I chose to ignore it. Last mont I ended up replacing a $600 hydraulic pump mine burnt up. Decided to go half way on the mod with a four inch dia pulley. Still whines a bit. But I love the extra speed


----------



## ApexTreeService

You paid about 3-6x's what a pump should have cost. I have been using both my machines for years with small pump pulley, no probs. I love that it increases boom speed so you can move the cutter head a lot faster. Move chips aside, move the machine side to side, etc.


----------



## Brian Holly

ApexTreeService said:


> Just decided to do some testing. Let me give some insight. Remove all teeth and pockets but two pair opposite each other. Trust me, try it and you will believe. Right now, I am using two pair of angled green teeth pockets opposite (obviously) of each other. Wow. You can still bog the engine if you grab too much indicating enough cutter for the HP, but I barely bog the engine now due to much less parasitic loss of the other teeth. I would say I'm at least 30% faster cutting. Wonder why Greenwheel uses only 6 teeth at 0 and 180 degree, well this is why. Two pair of teeth, opposite is what I am running. The reason I started reducing and testing pocket number mainly was to reduce the number of teeth to swap out from sharp new teeth/clean soil, to dull teeth/ rocky soil. One job I may have soil with no rock and a huge stump. I will put in brand new teeth for a huge increase in cutting speed. Next job, if any pebbles are present I will switch back to used teeth. Stock, with 8 pairs of pockets and 16 teeth that's a lot of time. Now, 2 pair of pockets, and 4 teeth, that's 1/4 the time. Used to take me 20 minutes, now takes me 5. Plus, 1/4 the price, 1/4 the needed backup, only four teeth, who would of thought.
> Trust me, go out in the morning, take off all your pockets except for two opposite each other, and love it when your machine rarely bogs down and your smile goes up!


Have you tried our New wearsharp Teeth? Are you running the 900? Series?


----------



## ApexTreeService

I have not tried the wear sharp, but I will test them and leave a review here if you send me some. I am using the 700 series. I think I may step up to the 900's for durability, but only after all my 700 hardware is worn out.


----------



## jaystihl

Anyone else try the 4 teeth setup?


----------



## stumper63

Been running the 4 tooth Alpine Rhino for over a year. Love it. So should be no reason a four tooth of other manufacturer shouldn't work as well.
Since the old Multi-tip teeth fit in the Rhino wheel I tried that a couple weeks ago in some really rocky soil that I didn't want to ruin the Rhino teeth, worked just fine too.

Stumper63


----------



## jaystihl

I have green teeth on a stock wheel, guess I will give the switch to 4 teeth a try. Anyone know of any downside to this?


----------



## ApexTreeService

No down side except quicker grinding, much less teeth to change, much lower cost when hitting rock, and 5 minute teeth swaps. Next step when I change cutter wheel bearing, I'm going to have all the cutter wheel LASER'ed off except the 4 inches of steel 180 degrees opposite for mounting the four pockets. The wheel with or without teeth will contact dirt and bog the machine.


----------



## ApexTreeService

I would dare to say the ultimate cutting system will be a single large rotatable tooth opposite each other on the wheel. Only two teeth. Like an 1100 series GreenTeeth.


----------



## NCgrinder

ApexTreeService said:


> I would dare to say the ultimate cutting system will be a single large rotatable tooth opposite each other on the wheel. Only two teeth. Like an 1100 series GreenTeeth.


Ultimate....
How 'bout a "no-tooth" system... a block of C4 and a cap....
Just sayin'...


----------



## ApexTreeService

Any tips on removing stuck main pivot under the machine which allows boom up and down? Smacked with an 8lb sledge and drift pin and nothing. Next phase is to heat it up, but that's going to toast the paint job...


----------



## NCgrinder

Apex:That horizontal (lower) boom pivot pin is a real chore.. I recently totally rebuilt my 252 @2150 hrs .Fortunately ,I was re-powering and had the engine & cutter-wheel/shaft off the boom. All the weight has to be off the pin..I rigged up my engine hoist to lift the boom...its a real delicate balancing act..Theres a large nut on one end and a lock-bolt on the other side...remove the nut and the lockbolt... Be sure to buy a new pivot shaft as you can easily damage the old one ...I wailed on the shaft with every BFH I had, to no avail... I had to torch off the pin & boss on the lockbolt side,as the pin had seized in the boss..(I cut it where the pin boss is welded to the plate)....No amount of heat, or penetrant would break it loose...once I burned off the boss and pin, then I used my air impact hammer on the threaded end and drove the stub towards the side I had just torched off...I machined a new boss and welded it back onto the pivot plates.. I used up two full days and every cussword I knew getting the pin out and replaced...While the pin is out,clean the bore on the center pin bushing , remove the grease fitting & clean out any hardened grease.. Install the pin,lockbolt and tighten the large nut til the pivot plates have a fairly tight clearance ,leave enough room for grease to be pumped between them..... and religiously pump a few squirts of grease in there as you use the machine..
I'm not sure what my local Vermeer shop would have charged,but I'll bet it wouldn't be cheap....Then again,they do this for a living and they might know a few shortcuts...
Good Luck ,if you do it yourself....
Stan


----------



## defensiblespace

I switched to the 4 tooth setup using the standard wheel and Vermeer yellow jacket teeth. It does cut faster. The biggest improvement is when you get deeper into the ground. The machine bogs down less, but can grab and stall quickly if you get greedy and try to take too much. I've also noticed more vibration in the machine. Has anyone tried switching to the Greenwheel after doing this? I'm curious if there is an advantage to the Greenwheel vs a standard wheel with this 4 tooth setup.


----------



## tazz0018

I switched to the 4 tooth setup using the standard wheel and 700 series Greenteeth. Cuts around 30% faster and is easier on the machine.


----------



## pro94lt

Muffler upgrades? Seems I seen it somewhere mine has came apart...


----------



## marne

Page 9


----------



## erikmx875

Plyscamp said:


> Stumper 63 The 1.5" shaft is pretty straight forward. Have your Machinist duplicate your 1.25" shaft with a 1.5" shaft and make it out of 4130 Steel. You will need new 1.5" center hubs for the 2 piece pulley's on each end of the shafts and yes use the same bearings as the cutter head. This also standardizes all the bearings. We carry 2 spares in the truck and just replace them in the field if we lose one.
> I have not made a template for the 35 HP engine mount but I will do that in the next few day's.
> I will post tomorrow on pulley and belt changes for the lower belts, and a belt source for the upper and lower belts. I did not get the pulley diameters today as I had planned.
> We are a full time Stump Grinding Company and Tree Trimming or Removal is not what we do. We sub contract for about 30 Tree company's, Grind for many of the Cities, Hospital, Colleges and Gas & Electric Etc.. We also specialize in difficult access stumps, Hillside ,Planter boxes, limited space, up & down stairway's etc. With the fuel costs and housing problems, business is down about 40% versus last year. However we are starting to see some signs of improvement.



Did you ever make a template for the 35hp engine?


----------



## Arboristo

tazz0018 said:


> I switched to the 4 tooth setup using the standard wheel and 700 series Greenteeth. Cuts around 30% faster and is easier on the machine.



Can you tell me how you did this exactly? Did you use 2 angeled pockets and 2 straight ones?


----------



## Arboristo

ApexTreeService said:


> Yes, leave only 4 teeth. No auto sleep. Don't worry about your concern, just try it : ). I should have realized this about 10 years ago after knowing full skip chain is faster cutting than full comp. Half the teeth, yet plenty to still bog the engine. Less to sharpen in both instances.



By 4 teeth system, do you mean 4 teeth on each side, so 8 teeth all together? Since you are saying you're using half the teeth of original config. Can someone please explain wich pockets they use? angled and straight ones?


----------



## Arboristo

timberrrrrr said:


> *40 hp Kohler*
> 
> ......
> Sheaves on Jackshaft to motor changed to 3 belt 5/8"



Hi Timberrr, can you explain how and with which parts you made this 3 belt happen? I am running the 35HP Vanguard with the Vermeer Clutch but that clutch only has 2 belts sheave. Can this be changed? I would like to do a 3 belt upgrade.


----------



## tazz0018

4 total 700 series greenteeth on 4 angle pockets across from each other on the wheel.


----------



## ironstumper

Arboristo said:


> Hi Timberrr, can you explain how and with which parts you made this 3 belt happen? I am running the 35HP Vanguard with the Vermeer Clutch but that clutch only has 2 belts sheave. Can this be changed? I would like to do a 3 belt upgrade.


Yes I'm curious too. I've had to throttle way back to stop the slipping on those 2 belts. Just the other day I got a banded 2 belt in the Stock A width. That has helped. I even went to Vermeer to look at there clutches for the 352. Which might fit with modification to shrouding if I want to spend $1,400.00 for that clutch. Ouch!


----------



## timberrrrrr

I made a mistake when I listed the upgrades I made to the 252 . . .

I meant to say that I changed the belts from the Jack shaft to the cutter wheel to 3 B belts.
I left the original clutch and the two A belts from the motor to the Jack shaft.

My original intention was to replace the clutch with a larger clutch and bigger belts. The new clutch was expensive, so I decided that the two A belts were a good fail point
for the system. If I was going to add more horsepower to a machine that wasn't built for it, I wanted a place for things to fail without catastrophic results. (Maybe this was just justifying not spending the $ on a bigger clutch)

Surprisingly the belts have performed decently. I go through belts maybe every 30 hours, and always keep a set in the truck (I can now replace them in 10 minutes or less) but the clutch has held up so far and I am happy with the results. Keep in mind that this is not my main machine, I usually use a 60 hp Carlton and use the 252 only in tight spots so I have only put about 80 hours on it since the conversion


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## Arboristo

Timberrr.. it's probably because of the 3 belt conversion you use so many belts. I have 1800 hours on my sc252 of which 1000 are with the Vanguard 35hp, and never had to change those two belts. The lower belt I think I replaced 3 or 4 times and the pulleys only once.


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## Chrome Industry

marne said:


> So I found an exhaust usually used on 27HP Kohlers installed on mud boats.
> There seems to be a big community about this and their intention is to increase performance for getting another mph out of their boats...
> But who cares, it fits and works fine, if there a non noticeable hp or ft/lb extra it's fine too. The downside is, this BPS is expensive.



I purchased one of these on 10/28/16, by 11/23/16 with only a few jobs on it, the welds cracked apart and the thing fell apart. Not cool for a $500+ muffler with shipping. They never confirmed shipping price with me when shipping it and service level has been slip-shod from day 1. The company is dodging me left and right, doesn't seem like they want to talk, but the representative assured me it would last forever... Meanwhile I haven't even made $500 with that muffler on the machine, it's my off/slow season! Have you had better luck than I, marne, pro94lt or anyone else? I'm debating if I even want to argue for a replacement, especially considering the shipping box was just a manufacturer carton marked 'Made in China'. They probably have zero quality controls in place...


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## marne

Sorry to hear that. Mine broke after 300-400 hrs, as I knew theses stainless mufflers can crack easy it was no surprise to me. Took it to an experienced welder, he laughed and asked for 10$ as a tip. Mounting and unmountig was more trouble than welding. Didn't even try to return it, as shipping it there back would have taken weeks from me.


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## Chrome Industry

I got my new muffler in today, ebay deal for 90$ with $20 3-year insurance policy through 3rd party (The thing is solid, full double reinforced welds). So I finally took this rattle trap stainless BPS mud buddy muffler off, it looks like the fail point was the bottom mount. After less than <10 hours it lost the bottom mounting plate (pictured) and one of the exhaust tubes completely stressed cracked free, the other wasn't far off. The last day I had to run it I actually used a huge hose clamp to hold it together! What I found on inspect is that the weld didn't go all the way through the mount, so its the obvious fail point. It looks like they went heavy, backed off, then get it about right, leaving half the mount with a weak weld after starting too deep. The guy who does my welding owns a metal fabrication shop. He looked at the stainless one and said it was heat welded without filler, so it draws a little metal from each section, weakening the areas and is a very weak style of weld. He said it would have needed supports to even have a chance. He's going to try and rebuild it, no promises. But I even built a jig using the new muffler for him to mount up to, so I am hopeful. BPS still hasn't returned my email or calls. What a **** show this upgrade turned out to be... I was really happy with how shiny it was!


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## marne

Really bad luck you had with that! All in one my went over 800hrs and is still fine. If they don't help you, I would at least post a few pics from the lemon they sold you in the mudmotor forums, to save not only stumpers.


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## defensiblespace

I ended up putting a 35 horse Vanguard engine on my 252. It made a huge difference, but I'm having trouble with my clutch belts slipping, even though they are tightened all the way. Has this happened to anyone else and if so, was a solution found?


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## stumper63

defensiblespace said:


> I ended up putting a 35 horse Vanguard engine on my 252. It made a huge difference, but I'm having trouble with my clutch belts slipping, even though they are tightened all the way. Has this happened to anyone else and if so, was a solution found?



I installed a banded v-belt instead of the two factory belts. Never had issues with slipping on mine. Pretty sure the part # is in the thread.

Stumper63


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## Plyscamp

The pulleys on the 252 clutch are universal for A and B width belts. However the jackshaft pulley is A width only from the factory. You can change the front to a B width pulley, which will allow you to run the bigger belts from the clutch to the Jackshaft.


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## marne

*

And the winner is:*

[photo=large]4176[/photo]

not my 252, but I thought it's worth sharing in this thread, found it in the bay, listed beside item #232195513135.

What a great idea, sadly without any specs, pretty shure it could use a 35hp not at least because of the added pump, anyway nice. With such skills repowering should not have been an issue.

Low center of gravity. infinite sweep arc, guess the undercarriage adds 450lbs, substract some weight from axle, hydromotor, wheels and chassis, so probably still lightweigt.


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## stumper63

Hey Marne, which Craigslist did you see this on, what City?

Stumper 63


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## marne

Stumper, it's listed on ebay uk the city is Malvern.


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## Arboristo

Hi guys,

does anyone of you know the hydraulic motor's brand and type?

The parts list says it is a 15,9 cubic inch hydromotor but there's no other information. The type plate on the hydromotor is gone..
The information would be handy as I'm going to convert my sc252 into a 2-speed.

Any information or help would be welcome. Has any of you guys done a 2 speed conversion maybe?

Arboristo


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## Ross Speir

I know this is for the 252 however I am thinking of buying a 222 with a blown motor. Is the 222 capable of handling the briggs 35. The machine looks smaller, just not sure how much lighter it is built. Thanks.


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## Arboristo

Ross, even the 252 is not capable of handling the briggs 35 well enough. The frame, the pivots, the belts, bearings, it is all too lightly built unfortunately. It all wears 4 to 5 times as fast and you'll have to repair, weld and fix frequently. Almost every month I have to replace the grinding wheel bearings for example. They're not expensive, but the one on the belt side is a lot of work as I always have to grind it off. It eats a lot of belts too. So, if you want to upgrade, you will have to invest in upgrading all these weak spots too. You'll have to invest a lot of time and money...buying a new or used 363 is a much better idea.


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## Ross Speir

Arboristo said:


> Ross, even the 252 is not capable of handling the briggs 35 well enough. The frame, the pivots, the belts, bearings, it is all too lightly built unfortunately. It all wears 4 to 5 times as fast and you'll have to repair, weld and fix frequently. Almost every month I have to replace the grinding wheel bearings for example. They're not expensive, but the one on the belt side is a lot of work as I always have to grind it off. It eats a lot of belts too. So, if you want to upgrade, you will have to invest in upgrading all these weak spots too. You'll have to invest a lot of time and money...buying a new or used 363 is a much better idea.


I'm getting it because of the low price. I'll probably put a 23 Honda on it(that was the original plan). Close to stock motor. Any input on a green wheel? I'm not trying to make a living with it, I'm a maintenance man by trade and wanted to have something to play with and maybe make a few dollars on the side.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk


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## Arboristo

a 23 HP is for sure a waste of time building up your 222 and once up there a waste of time grinding. 4 HP less is a lot bc 27 hp is already too small these days. I'd say the best thing in your case is to find a second hand 27HP Kohler. I think a 27hp grinds twice as fast as 23HP.


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## Arboristo

I don't know where you live Ross, but where I live a 27HP is economically depreciated. They can no longer compete with the hourly output of the newest small machines of 35 - 38 HP. It takes a guy with a 27HP two hours to grind where his competition takes it only 30 minutes or less for the same job. The guy with the new machine sets the prices for the others.
So if you want to start this business in a competitive area you'll have to buy at least the same machine + start working for lower prices than your existing competitor does. Only than you can take some of his business. However only for a short while as he will respond very soon and lower his prices too. You as a newcomer won't make any money anymore while he still does, cause he's experienced, has lower costs etc. So your only real option to start in a competitive market is to buy a much better machine than anyone else has. Some market research is important.


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## stumper63

Arboristo said:


> Ross, even the 252 is not capable of handling the briggs 35 well enough. The frame, the pivots, the belts, bearings, it is all too lightly built unfortunately. It all wears 4 to 5 times as fast and you'll have to repair, weld and fix frequently. Almost every month I have to replace the grinding wheel bearings for example. They're not expensive, but the one on the belt side is a lot of work as I always have to grind it off. It eats a lot of belts too. So, if you want to upgrade, you will have to invest in upgrading all these weak spots too. You'll have to invest a lot of time and money...buying a new or used 363 is a much better idea.



Hey Ross, I sure had a different experience when I put the 35hp Vanguard on my 252. Had no noticeable difference in wear between the 25hp Kohler and the 35hp Briggs. Cutter wheel bearings lasted 400-500 hrs, belts lasted the same, never a crack in any welds or frame parts. Wonder if there was an alignment issue on the bearings?? The weak spot was if you let the small pulley on the jackshaft that goes to the cutter wheel belt wear down (inside grooves get worn and can't grip belt), which it did on either engine after about 800 hrs, then cutter wheel belts would not last. Just use a straightedge across the pulley to see if all the tops of the v's are same height. Pulley was less than $50.

When the 26.5hp Kohler EFI dies on my 292 it's gonna get an upgrade, probably the Kohler EFI 38 hp. Only change will be engine and clutch. The Vermeer 292 (26.5hp) and the 362 (35hp) are the exact same machine except the engine, clutch, and hydraulic steering. That said, the bearings and belts are much beefier than the 252 to start with. Usually get about 450-500 hrs on the cutter wheel belts, 750 hrs on the cutter wheel bearings, and replaced clutch once, just about to hit 2K hrs now.

Haven't had any experience with a 222, but worth a try it would seem, esp if rest of machine is in good shape.

Stumper63


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## Arboristo

Hi Stumper,
why did you go from 35hp 252 to a 26,5hp sc292? How's a sc292 to operate with the belt cover on the other side?

I'm shocked to hear you get 750 hrs from the cutter wheel bearings. I find that almost unbelievable as mine last between 60 and 80 hours. The alignment is always straight. I changed the small pulley twice last year, and went through 3 or 4 cutter wheel belts. The clutch is actually the only thing that manages well. I do run the 37hp EFi though.


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## stumper63

Hey Arboristo,

Yeah, the 750 hrs on cutter wheel bearings is on the 292, they are a much beefier double bearing. I used to get between 450-500 hrs on the 252 with the 35hp. I always used the Vermeer bearings, which were about $85 each or so, not the $25 ones on ebay that fit, but are built a little cheaper it seems. Where are you sourcing your bearings from?
Also, on the 252 it seems like the shaft always gotten eaten up on the operator side when the inner race of the bearing came loose, almost knurled the shaft. Maybe I ran them a bit too long.....the 292 bearing is about twice the width so holds onto the shaft much better, never had one come loose.
Surprised to hear about the belt issue since you seem to have all the bases covered. Not sure what else, I did have to change the large pulley on the cutter wheel one time as it wore down too. What is happening when you have to replace the belt? Does it break, or the v grooves worn? Just can't keep it from slipping?

I replaced the 35hp 252 because the whole machine was pretty old and tired, a 99 model. Vermeer had just come out with the 292, mine was the 10th off the assembly line. The 292 was rated at 29hp, but right when they came out the power rating standard changed so they had to call it a 26.5. The machine actually says its a 29hp. So the 37hp you're running now is prob equivalent to an old 40hp at least.

I really do like the belts both being on the side away from the operator. View of grinding is vastly improved. Also having 10" more swing width is amazing, I didn't think it would be such a big deal at first, but it seems to cut grinding time down quite a bit on bigger stumps where you have to reposition.
Looking forward to putting on a big block some time, but hard to justify until this one gets tired. At nearly 2K hours it isn't using any oil yet, just pretty religious on all filter and fluid changes.

How do you like the 37 hp EFI? My only complaint on the 35hp I had was it didn't last very long compared to the Kohler small blocks I had. When I sold the machine I had about 1500 hours on the 35hp and it was blowing oil pretty bad. My first 252 with 25hp Kohler had 4300 hrs on it when I sold it, was using a little oil, but otherwise hadn't given me a lick of trouble. That's why I was debating on whether to put the Kohler 38 EFI or stick with the newer 37hp Briggs EFI.

Stumper 63


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## Arboristo

Hi Stumper,

- the EFI is a great engine and so much stronger then the 35HP. However, it is actually way too strong for the power transmission on the sc252. I'm not able to use it's full power as it gets the belts slipping easily. That's likely why I go through so many bearings and belts: I have to tighten them much more than the bearings can handle to avoid the belts from burning. However with the 27 hp and 35HP, I did also use a lot of bearings, but not as many as I do now though.
The quality bearings I use is good, the Vermeer bearings don't last any longer.
I think the 35HP is a really great engine too although I only got 1200 hrs out of it. It was my own fault though as I did not fix an oil leak coming from the valve head. This caused sand building up on the head and on a warm summer day the head cracked due to not getting enough air-cooling. I got it fixed but after that the engine used oil, which I think is unhealthy for me, so I bought a new engine. The EFI is the exact same engine as the 35HP.

I'm currently upgrading the upper shaft to 1,5 inch. I'm also planning to upgrade the cutter wheel shaft to 1,75 inch. That is probably the size of the 292's cutter wheel shaft? Can you tell me the type of bearings you use on the sc292?

I replace the belts because they break/burn.

How's the part made where the swing beam is attached to on the sc292? Is it the same as on the sc252? Or did they make it heavier? I had to buy a new one too as the old one was completely worn. I think bc of the heavier engine, which is an extra 15 kilo's or somewhere around that number. Because this part was worn, I kept changing the belly pivot, like 3 times a year.

Also I'm heaving the problem of the shaft getting eaten on the cutter wheel, as well as the upper shaft. Two cutter wheel shafts last year and now I have to replace it again. I brought it to a laser cladding company. It's much more expensive then a new shaft but around x-mass Vermeer was closed for two weeks and I didn't have the time to wait. Hopefully the upgrading helps..would be great if you can give me the type of bearings you are using.


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## stumper63

The bearings on the 292 I get from Vermeer, but the tag on them says Link Belt B5227053. They are a double bearing, so much wider than the 252 bearing. Also a lot more expensive, $230 ea I think last time. But for the longer wear and less hassle of multiple replacements they are great. And they don't wear out the shaft. Not sure if you could adapt them to the 252 or not. They are 1.75" ID bearings.
I also upgraded the jackshaft on the old 252 to 1.5", never had a problem after that. I also had my cutter wheel shaft rebuilt one time, was cheaper than a new one but still only lasted so long with those narrow bearings. But i bought several shafts too. Think the most I got was two sets of bearings on one shaft.

One thing that I had trouble with on the 35hp was the Donaldson Filter housing. Replaced it twice. The design is not good as the filters push against the swivel elbow where the hose attaches. That swivel is just attached by some plastic ears that come loose, and when it does it leaves a gap where unfiltered air can bypass the outer filter. The inner filter can't handle it all. So I may have had some dirty air get into the engine too that hastened it's demise. The Kohler 26.5 on the 292, and the 37 or 38 Kohler uses a Donaldson filter also, but a different type housing that won't wear. Another reason why I am thinking of going Kohler, but maybe the 37 Briggs EFI uses a different housing???

Are you asking about the yoke where the swing beam attaches to? If so the 292 uses a cast iron version, not a welded plate version like my older 252 did. But it looks just the same otherwise. By belly pivot are you talking the vertical pivot point in the yoke? Or the horizontal pivot under the machine? I had to replace the bearings on the vertical pivot due to my own fault of not keeping them greased enough on the 292. Hardly ever greased them on the 252, but I guess they are designed to be kept plenty greased. i give em 2 pumps a week as schedule calls out now.
I just replaced the horizontal pivot under the machine a month ago or so. Bushings were worn a little but most of slop was due to metal on metal wear of yoke against frame. Had to weld a little 1/8" plate on the frame to tighten up worn area, now as tight as a new machine again.

Stumper63


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## Arboristo

Link Belt B5227053 must be the Vermeer part nr I guess as I cannot find a bearing matching this number. I think they must be roller bearings instead of ball bearings and can carry a lot more vertical pressure. I'm sure they must be available in the bearing store much cheaper. I feel I have to get some of these. Is your cutterhead or cutter shaft also wider as the sc252?

I had the exact same problem with the Donaldson Filter housing! On the EFI I do not have this problem so is likely a different air cleaner.

Yes, I was asking about the yoke. On my 2008 sc252 it is cast iron, so must be the same. I noticed though that it was slightly wider than the frame, so I had to weld a plate to. In fact, I had a lot of welding to do as the bending yoke had sort of made the plates on the frame hollow. It was a complicated welding job to get it all straight again. I never had problems with the vertical pivot. The belly pivot is a bit wrong design I would say..metal on metal, 2 bearing would have been much better. I thought about changing that, but it's too much work.

Do you have problems with excessive wear the cylinder bushings and pivots too? I drilled grease nipples in the pivots, that way they last a few months longer. I'm going to replace the plastic ones with bronze bushings which I can make on the lathe.


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## stumper63

The number is on a Link Belt tag. It may be possible that it is a BS... instead of a B5..., you could try that. Possible it is a proprietary bearing Link Belt makes for Vermeer. 
Shaft is quite a bit different on the 292. Are you close to a Vermeer dealer? Perhaps they stock them and you could compare differences at the counter. You could take a look at the cutter wheel bearings then too, take some measurements, etc.

For the swing cylinder ends on my 252 I tried using needle bearings instead of the Garmax bushing from Vermeer. Installed grease zerks. Didn't last much longer than the Garmax. I replace them about every 200 hrs. on the 292. What are they, $20/set? Cheap/easy to install. Haven't replaced the pins yet, but prob should next time, they are wearing down now with 2K hrs. 

I attribute some things as trying to keep the price point down, just wouldn't be right to make everything easily replaceable when worn, LOL.

Stumper63


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## Arboristo

I'm not that far from a Vermeer dealer..however they aren't very cooperative when you have unusual questions I learned in the past. Especially not when mentioning I'm making changes to my machine  Their solution is to my problems is always to buy a larger grinder. In a way they are right, but I just love the simplicity and usability of my sc252  

2k hours is really long for those pins!...for some reason your machines wear a lot slower than mine


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## Arboristo

BS227053 is indeed a proprietary bearing. Rexnord website says it is a non-catalog product. That's makes it hard to find the exact same bearing or a different brand alternative. My bearing supplier needs a cataloged number to give me alternatives. He says he can't give me a bearing just by the type 'spherical double roller bearing' 1-3/4". So, I'm stuck for now, or I just have to order the 362 bearings from Vermeer.


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## Arboristo

Stumper63, what type oil pump is on your sc292? I need another oil pump as mine does not have enough power. A seal kit costs over 200 euro.


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## stumper63

Hydraulic pump is what you want, right? It's a Parker brand. SN: J0413-07231. PN: 3319122061

Probably proprietary too, LOL

stumper63


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## Arboristo

Thanks Stumper63! Indeed, most likely proprietary too since I cannot find it 
Seems like I have to go and search for an alternative.

I wonder how they created the two-speed? Do they use a 2-speed hydraulic motor or is it a trick with a valve and bypass in slow modus?


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## stumper63

Valve and bypass solenoid. See pics:


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## Arboristo

Ah, interesting, thanks! It looks like this would it would not be too hard to build this into a sc252 to create a two-speed. But you probably also need a hydraulic motor twice the volume to keep original speed when de valve is open, and get double speed when it closes. I would love to have a two-speed grinder cause I waste a lot of time and fuel on some locations.


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## stumper63

Did you already change the hydro pump pulley like is shown on this thread? I replaced mine just the next size down to increase the pump speed. Helped a lot. Some guys went even smaller, but made their pumps squeal. 
I also put a one or two tooth larger sprocket on the drive motor, helped speed things up. I think with those changes my old 252 was just as fast as the 292 in high speed. 
Increasing the pump pulley size does increase your swing speed too, but i found that helpful too, I never used the AutoSleep feature anyway. 

Stumper63


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## Arboristo

Yes, I already changed the pulley for a smaller one. Instead from 16 tot 18, I changed the other sprocket and went from 39 to 34. This gives the same change, but the advantage is that the bolts of the hydraulic motor are better accessible, plus the chain cannot get stuck anymore when it breaks. (This once happened during a job and was a lot of hassle)
The disadvantage of the change is that I do not have enough torque now when on mulch and I have to help manually often, to pull the grinder backwards. I feel my hydraulic pump may be leaking inside? Do you still have enough torque with your 18 sprocket?


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## stumper63

Never had a problem with torque that I recall, you might have a faulty pump going on. Or check your hydraulic pressure with a gauge, may need to adjust. I remember demoing a new Carlton 4012 back in 07 at their factory. A 4wd unit, wouldn't climb a little hill. The guy was embarrassed. Went back to the factory and they adjusted the pressure and had all the power you could have asked for. Would be too simple, but worth a check.

I do remember that after changing the sprocket I did have to use a crowfoot socket to get to one of those pump bolts.

Stumper63


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## Arboristo

hmm, that's interesting. On my previous sc252 I had the same problem, not enough torque, not even with original sprocket. I always thought this was just how they are... I'm going to get this checked! Thanks!


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## stumper63

Only problem was traction, wheels would always spin. Even if you put them up against a tall curb, would always spin them on dry pavement (not recommended to do for very long, just a torque check I would do). So may be a pressure issue for you. 

Stumper63


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## Arboristo

ok! wow, spinning wheels on dry pavement. I have the feeling there's a lot to gain here for me if I solve this pressure issue. Do you know if you can adjust the pressure somewhere on the sc252? After measuring of course.


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## stumper63

Never had to do it, but must be. should be at the control station. Should be a nut you loosen, then either a screwdriver or allen head bolt you turn clockwise I believe to increase pressure. I don't have my manuals anymore for the 252. Any hydro shop will know how.


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## Arboristo

stumper63 said:


> Never had to do it, but must be. should be at the control station. Should be a nut you loosen, then either a screwdriver or allen head bolt you turn clockwise I believe to increase pressure. I don't have my manuals anymore for the 252. Any hydro shop will know how.



I connected a gauge and measured 1400 psi oil pressure, which should be set to 1500 psi. Just under the controls there's a hole. Through there you can losen a nut and adjust with an allen key. I reset the oil pressure so let's see tomorrow what it does


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## Arboristo

I did notice a significant improvement in torque after resetting the oil pressure to 1500 psi. However I do believe my pump needs overhaul as it needs to make a lot of rpm to reach 1500 psi. So my pump must be leaking oil inside.
I have two options: buy a 200 euro repair kit for the webster from Vermeer or get a brand new 200 euro pump + bearing of a different brand. The new pump delivers 250 psi at 3500 max rpm.

What would you guys do?


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## Arboristo

Arboristo said:


> I did notice a significant improvement in torque after resetting the oil pressure to 1500 psi. However I do believe my pump needs overhaul as it needs to make a lot of rpm to reach 1500 psi. So my pump must be leaking oil inside.
> I have two options: buy a 200 euro repair kit for the webster from Vermeer or get a brand new 200 euro pump + bearing of a different brand. The new pump delivers 250 psi at 3500 max rpm.
> 
> What would you guys do?



It's going to be a new pump as Vermeer charges 369 euro ex vat for the repair kit.


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## GroundZero

Ross Speir said:


> I know this is for the 252 however I am thinking of buying a 222 with a blown motor. Is the 222 capable of handling the briggs 35. The machine looks smaller, just not sure how much lighter it is built. Thanks.


I have done it and it's awesome.
I have 450 hours with the 35 vanguard on it and got about 370 hours on the bearings before 1 started making noise and getting hot and about 250 hours on the v belts & just just under 180 hours on the cutter wheel belt. All of these were new when I installed the engine along with a new clutch. Alignment is key for sure and sharp teeth.






Sent from my SM-G892U using Tapatalk


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## TheAMMIXman

Can I just say thank you to all who have posted here. I am not a professional stump grinder, however I am looking to start doing the work. Have wanted to for some time. I don’t know why this, but this it is. Grinding stumps. 

I have purchased a used 2012 252 with 700 hours. Picking it up tomorrow. I could not be more thankful for the knowledge gained in here reading this the last few days. 

First things first. Make sure she runs and works. Hopefully I don’t here anything I don’t like. 

Going to start small I think. Green teeth and buy the stuff to do a 4” pulley change, not going to install that straight away though. Think that’s a good middle ground on size, especially for a newbie, when I do go to install it. Don’t want any long term problems either.

I’m totally new to all this. Thanks again for all the time your all have put into this thread.


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## TheAMMIXman

Hi there Ground Zero

Sweet setup! I love the plow pusher thing. Did you build that? Is there any way I could get you to snap a few more pics. Maybe from the other side or frontish and both up and down position if you could?

No rush, I probably won’t build one till winter. But I love the idea and read of someone else doing the same thing. I didn’t envision the lower support piece but now that I see the way you built yours I want to inlude it for strength too!


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## TheAMMIXman

Anyone source the sleeves/bushings for the hydraulic cylinder ends from someone other than Vermeer? 

Specifically the left right swing ones ATM but I’d take the whole slew of em and just order them all if someone had a list. 

I have a 2012 252

Thank you.


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## Arboristo

I put in bronze bushings, they last a lot longer than the fiber ones. Cheaper too by the way! I got them online from some bushing supplier, they have all kinds of sizes self-greasing-bushings.


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## TheAMMIXman

Arboristo said:


> I put in bronze bushings, they last a lot longer than the fiber ones. Cheaper too by the way! I got them online from some bushing supplier, they have all kinds of sizes self-greasing-bushings.



Thank you. Don’t have any part numbers laying around do you? I’m hoping not to open it up till I have parts in hand. Hopefully less down time that way. Thanks again for the reply.


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## TheAMMIXman

Anyone change the diameter of the jackshaft and cutter shaft pulleys to affect speed? I need to replace at least the jackshaft one and am contemplating this at this time.

I read somewhere on here someone did speed up the cutter wheel with some initial advantages but wore teeth quickly and they theorized the opposite may be better, slow down for more torque.

This is what I’m contemplating, slowing down the cutter wheel. For more torque. I am doing the hydro pulley upgrade so im thinking a little more tourque may be better with the swing arm moving faster.

I’m talking minimal change. 1/4” change or so on be pulley. Not inches or anything. Just slow it down a hair.

Thoughts? Anyone at all?

Hope this thread isn’t totally dead. I love my 252, even if there is better equipment these days. Great info here.


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## TheAMMIXman

Also, I have been quoted a price on the stock size pulley and gates brand belts from a local bearing supplier. And have bought the jackshaft and cutter shaft bearings from them already. I will post all part numbers later.


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## Jstumpy

Mod


stumper63 said:


> For those of us that have the 252 it seems like it would be handy to have an authoritative list of the modifications all of us have made to improve/upgrade/strenghten our machines.
> I know Plyscamp has made quite a few, including the recent hydraulic ram bushing upgrades. Has anyone else made mods to their 252? What did you do, how well has it worked out, any specific part #'s?
> 
> I would like to take all the responses and put them together in one post so any of us can benefit from them a bit easier.
> 
> If there are previous posts you know about, please reference them.
> 
> I realize that some things are matters of opinion, like which type of cutter wheel or teeth to use, like, my preference of the Sandvik. But lots of things are probably just what they are, good upgrades.
> 
> Perhaps these upgrades would help those with similar sized machines from other manufacturers as well.
> Stumper63


 i modified my 252's pump by welding a 5/8 socket in 3/8 drive to the pump pully, now when i have an engine failure while in someones yard i can attach a large cordless dewalt to the pump to work my drive and hydraulucs to recover and load my equipment


----------



## TheAMMIXman

Jstumpy said:


> Mod
> i modified my 252's pump by welding a 5/8 socket in 3/8 drive to the pump pully, now when i have an engine failure while in someones yard i can attach a large cordless dewalt to the pump to work my drive and hydraulucs to recover and load my equipmentView attachment 694513


Excellent idea! I never thought of doing that. I always just figured I’d be ratchet strapping or using a come - a - long or muscle power to get it back on the trailer. 

I’ve just rebuilt the front of my machine from the wheel with green teeth to the motor. Even new stock size pulleys where they are worn out. I have all the pulleys in range for the hydro pump mod others have done here. 

Stock 5.4, 4.4, 4.1, 3.4, and 3.1. Starting in the middle with the 4.1 and am trying to find some AmsOil HTTO 5w-30 as cheap as possible before first test run. $233 for 5 gallons online! Worth it tho. I the AmsOil can be the saving grace in the hyrdo pulley mod from what another guy on here and said, and some reasoning and understanding on my part. 

I’ll take some pictures in the morning of the mod and what I’ve done as the cutter wheel belt just came in and I must still do final assembly, line up, and tension. I’ll be out there anywya. 

Still need to post all the part numbers I sourced for stuff not from vemeer. All quality parts, no junk. I’ve saved the boxes and of course receipts. 

I am glad to see this thread is not dead!


----------



## Brian Holly

TheAMMIXman said:


> Anyone change the diameter of the jackshaft and cutter shaft pulleys to affect speed? I need to replace at least the jackshaft one and am contemplating this at this time.
> 
> I read somewhere on here someone did speed up the cutter wheel with some initial advantages but wore teeth quickly and they theorized the opposite may be better, slow down for more torque.
> 
> This is what I’m contemplating, slowing down the cutter wheel. For more torque. I am doing the hydro pulley upgrade so im thinking a little more tourque may be better with the swing arm moving faster.
> 
> I’m talking minimal change. 1/4” change or so on be pulley. Not inches or anything. Just slow it down a hair.
> 
> Thoughts? Anyone at all?
> 
> Hope this thread isn’t totally dead. I love my 252, even if there is better equipment these days. Great info here.



If you slow down the cutter wheel RPM and maintain the same sweep speed across the stump your chip load per tooth will increase, which could cause a hammering effect due to each tooth having to remove more material.
Reducing your RPM will ultimately lead to a slower sweep speed or a reduction in the depth of cut.


----------



## TheAMMIXman

Brian Holly said:


> If you slow down the cutter wheel RPM and maintain the same sweep speed across the stump your chip load per tooth will increase, which could cause a hammering effect due to each tooth having to remove more material.
> Reducing your RPM will ultimately lead to a slower sweep speed or a reduction in the depth of cut.


Thank you for your insight. I appreciate it. That does make sense. As it is I’m already “increasing chip load per tooth” I believe, as I am switching to green teeth with less then 1/4 the amount of teeth. That’s the system they offer for my machine. Grinding stumps is all new to me as of last year. Hope that was a good move, guy in town doesn’t like green teeth cause he doesn’t want to sharpen them, I’ll do the work if it makes the work faster. 

I did keep all the cutter wheel stuff factory and just did the hydro pump mod others with my machine have done. I didn’t go as crazy as some, and I spent the $$$$$$ on the AMSOIL Hydraulic Tractor Transmition Oil so I expect no pump wine and little to no adverse affects on the pump. 

I really appreciate the reply

Bruce


----------



## Brian Holly

TheAMMIXman said:


> Thank you for your insight. I appreciate it. That does make sense. As it is I’m already “increasing chip load per tooth” I believe, as I am switching to green teeth with less then 1/4 the amount of teeth. That’s the system they offer for my machine. Grinding stumps is all new to me as of last year. Hope that was a good move, guy in town doesn’t like green teeth cause he doesn’t want to sharpen them, I’ll do the work if it makes the work faster.
> 
> I did keep all the cutter wheel stuff factory and just did the hydro pump mod others with my machine have done. I didn’t go as crazy as some, and I spent the $$$$$$ on the AMSOIL Hydraulic Tractor Transmition Oil so I expect no pump wine and little to no adverse affects on the pump.
> 
> I really appreciate the reply
> 
> Bruce



Hello Bruce

How far down do you normally drop the head before sweeping across the stump?
The upgrade kit still uses the same amount of lead teeth keeping the chip load per tooth relatively the same. Most often only the lead teeth are being used given the HP of the 252.
The two biggest advantages to the upgrade kit is the reduction in total mass of the wheel as well as reducing drag by eliminating cutters recirculating through the chip pile. By reducing mass and drag we were able to utilize a larger tooth which allows the operator to take a larger depth of cut while maintaining RPM.

I work at Greenteeth if you ever have any questions about our cutting systems or just a question about stump grinding in general please don't hesitate to give us a call we would be happy to help in anyway we can.
Just for future info, their is a few groups on Facebook with a ton of valuable information for somebody just starting out in the business.


----------



## TheAMMIXman

Brian Holly said:


> Hello Bruce
> 
> How far down do you normally drop the head before sweeping across the stump?
> The upgrade kit still uses the same amount of lead teeth keeping the chip load per tooth relatively the same. Most often only the lead teeth are being used given the HP of the 252.
> The two biggest advantages to the upgrade kit is the reduction in total mass of the wheel as well as reducing drag by eliminating cutters recirculating through the chip pile. By reducing mass and drag we were able to utilize a larger tooth which allows the operator to take a larger depth of cut while maintaining RPM.
> 
> I work at Greenteeth if you ever have any questions about our cutting systems or just a question about stump grinding in general please don't hesitate to give us a call we would be happy to help in anyway we can.
> Just for future info, their is a few groups on Facebook with a ton of valuable information for somebody just starting out in the business.




Hello Brian

How far down do I drop the head before cutting?

Well I have no formal training, or any training in this field so I’ll explain what I do. Thus far I’m entirely self taught. 

When lining up to make my first pass from any specific angle I generally line up the wheel so a set of teeth is about to touch in the middle of the pass, swing it wide and bump the down lever once quickly. I doubt it drops an inch. Maybe it does. I would not think my 252 would remove too much at one time. Certainly not inches I think. 

It’s more by feel than anything. I’m not watching it each time how far down it goes. If the last pass swept to easily and it didn’t feel like I pulled off much wood I bump the down lever a little longer than last time to take more wood. If the machine bogs and feels like it’s struggling I don’t drop it as far next time or I may even bump it back up a hair mid sweep. 

The first few passes I usually don’t take off enough and I get more aggressive with the drop down of the head as I get going until it feels the machine is really working for it, then as there’s more wood to remove can’t lower the head quite as much each time. I’m still learning, and the feel is about to change I’m sure with green teeth and an increase in swing speed. 

Few years back that guy I know from town did a stump on my property, fair sized one for around here. Prob 4ft at the cut, 6ft st the root line. He prob ground a 8ft+ circle not including chasing roots. The chips this guys machine made were sometimes the size one hand hand in a cup shape. And I’m 6’2” with probably not small hands. Mine are more like wood shavings. Of course he had some turbo diesel machine probably 60 or 80 horsepower, and I have 27. Less than half. 

Anyway that’s how I go about lowering the cutter wheel in increments. Thank you for asking, hopefully I’m going about it in a decent manner. Like I mentioned I have no formal training, but I’m a figure it out kind of guy. 

Cool to know you work at green teeth! I bought the tooth conversion back in the summer but the machine came with brand new looking Vermeer teeth so I figured I’d use them as long as possible, and I didn’t do as many jobs as I may have hoped for(late start due to trailer reg issues). I did not purchase the whole new “wheel” then as I was just starting. I did not have the funds to try that out and make all my repairs this winter but it looks enticing, and I still have the green teeth and pockets for the factory wheel in the box. Couple sets in fact. I am sure you know exactly what I purchased since you work there. I believe there’s only one kit for the factory wheel for my machine. I have yet to install them but will soon. 

Just rebuilt the whole front end of my machine and picked up my “special” hydro oil. Just have to put the pockets on, the teeth on, tension the belts and put the new oil in. Then stumpy is ready again. Stopped and gave my card to a tree service just this am with a foot of snow on the ground no less!

What are these Facebook groups you speak of? I do not have a personal Facebook. My wife made one for my business I bet I could and should access them through that account. 

Thank you much for correspondening with me!

Bruce Linder


----------



## Brian Holly

TheAMMIXman said:


> Hello Brian
> 
> How far down do I drop the head before cutting?
> 
> Well I have no formal training, or any training in this field so I’ll explain what I do. Thus far I’m entirely self taught.
> 
> When lining up to make my first pass from any specific angle I generally line up the wheel so a set of teeth is about to touch in the middle of the pass, swing it wide and bump the down lever once quickly. I doubt it drops an inch. Maybe it does. I would not think my 252 would remove too much at one time. Certainly not inches I think.
> 
> It’s more by feel than anything. I’m not watching it each time how far down it goes. If the last pass swept to easily and it didn’t feel like I pulled off much wood I bump the down lever a little longer than last time to take more wood. If the machine bogs and feels like it’s struggling I don’t drop it as far next time or I may even bump it back up a hair mid sweep.
> 
> The first few passes I usually don’t take off enough and I get more aggressive with the drop down of the head as I get going until it feels the machine is really working for it, then as there’s more wood to remove can’t lower the head quite as much each time. I’m still learning, and the feel is about to change I’m sure with green teeth and an increase in swing speed.
> 
> Few years back that guy I know from town did a stump on my property, fair sized one for around here. Prob 4ft at the cut, 6ft st the root line. He prob ground a 8ft+ circle not including chasing roots. The chips this guys machine made were sometimes the size one hand hand in a cup shape. And I’m 6’2” with probably not small hands. Mine are more like wood shavings. Of course he had some turbo diesel machine probably 60 or 80 horsepower, and I have 27. Less than half.
> 
> Anyway that’s how I go about lowering the cutter wheel in increments. Thank you for asking, hopefully I’m going about it in a decent manner. Like I mentioned I have no formal training, but I’m a figure it out kind of guy.
> 
> Cool to know you work at green teeth! I bought the tooth conversion back in the summer but the machine came with brand new looking Vermeer teeth so I figured I’d use them as long as possible, and I didn’t do as many jobs as I may have hoped for(late start due to trailer reg issues). I did not purchase the whole new “wheel” then as I was just starting. I did not have the funds to try that out and make all my repairs this winter but it looks enticing, and I still have the green teeth and pockets for the factory wheel in the box. Couple sets in fact. I am sure you know exactly what I purchased since you work there. I believe there’s only one kit for the factory wheel for my machine. I have yet to install them but will soon.
> 
> Just rebuilt the whole front end of my machine and picked up my “special” hydro oil. Just have to put the pockets on, the teeth on, tension the belts and put the new oil in. Then stumpy is ready again. Stopped and gave my card to a tree service just this am with a foot of snow on the ground no less!
> 
> What are these Facebook groups you speak of? I do not have a personal Facebook. My wife made one for my business I bet I could and should access them through that account.
> 
> Thank you much for correspondening with me!
> 
> Bruce Linder




You are moving along quickly with the learning curve of stump grinding. I also listen and watch how the wheel is cutting an make adjustments to the head when needed. I just didn't know if you stopped to take a look at how much material you were removing during a pass.
It sounds like you have the machine all tuned up for the upcoming season.
The Facebook Group with the most members is called "Professional stump grinders". You should be able to find it in the search bar on Facebook.


----------



## TheAMMIXman

Brian Holly said:


> You are moving along quickly with the learning curve of stump grinding. I also listen and watch how the wheel is cutting an make adjustments to the head when needed. I just didn't know if you stopped to take a look at how much material you were removing during a pass.
> It sounds like you have the machine all tuned up for the upcoming season.
> The Facebook Group with the most members is called "Professional stump grinders". You should be able to find it in the search bar on Facebook.



Thank you. Yes I think I can tell when the machine is working too hard, or when the work is taking too long and it’s not working hard enough. 

Only time I have looked mid pass is if I really took off too much a time or two. At those times I didn’t even think it was necessarily the depth of cut that bogged me out, at least not the depth I dropped the head per pass. I thought I was getting too deep, using too much of the wheel and not moving forward in time. If that makes sense. This has only ever been an issue on huge stumps. 

Even then if the teeth were vertically contacting say 12” of wood as they rotate with the wheel(wich is probably to much hence the bog out or stalled machine)I still do not think I was lowering the head and taking more than 1” per pass.

Maybe that answers your question better. 

I will certainly get the FaceBookery on my phone and check out that group. 

Thanks again 

Bruce


----------



## TheAMMIXman

Need help disabling auto sleep

I have a 2012 252. I now have green teeth and 3.5” pulley. I went to disable auto sleep. I pull the fuse in the holder under the hood, then the wheel does not turn on. What am I missing??


----------



## Arboristo

TheAMMIXman said:


> Need help disabling auto sleep
> 
> I have a 2012 252. I now have green teeth and 3.5” pulley. I went to disable auto sleep. I pull the fuse in the holder under the hood, then the wheel does not turn on. What am I missing??



Hi Ammixman,
What engine do you have? I have never been able to find out how to switch of auto sweep..but the answer is that you don't have to. I you. Auto-sweep is controlled by the sollenoid that counts the revs of the flywheel. If you just increase the max rpm a bit above factory settings, auto-sweep switches of somewhere around 3850 revs. The great thing is that it switches on again if you lower revs bit, cause in some situations e.g. when grinding centimeters from a brick wall, it can be handy when you need to be careful.

I do not run the Kohler anymore, but it should be possible to screw up max rpm of that engine too of course.


----------



## TheAMMIXman

Hi Arboristo

I have the Kohler Command 27 on mine. I believe it’s the original. Supposedly 7XX hours on the machine’s meter. I had read previously in this thread it was as simple as pulling a certain fuse to disable it. However, I do believe the operators stating such had earlier 252’s and probably did not have operator presence on their machine’s. 

I think I understand the method you are expanding, turn up the govener some to stay above the limit. Not sure I’d want to risk engine damage for some productivity. 

I do think most of the time I’ve gotten good enough with the machine it doesn’t kick on and slow me down. It would be nice to not have it kick on at all. It still does come on and slow me down at times. Been a while since I bit off so much it stopped the machine dead in its tracks, don’t think I need it anymore. 

Thank you for the reply


----------



## Arboristo

I have made many modifications on my sc252. I actually improved everything on the machine that could be improved and you won't believe how fast it became. I beat a 50HP Predator on an average job easily. The Predator might take slightly larger cuts per second, however the control you have when grinding with a 252 makes grinding so much more efficient than with any other machine. I'm able to follow the contours of the stump perfectly with manual control. This makes grinding so much more effective than grinding with a radio controlled grinder, as that one will be cutting in 'nothing' a lot during the job. 
I have also improved the movability by changing the small wheel for a larger wide wheel. Second best mod ever! I can turn my sc252 180 degrees in just two seconds. I also did an engine mod and made my own (much heavier) grinding wheel with just 12 teeth.


----------



## Arboristo

TheAMMIXman said:


> Hi Arboristo
> 
> I have the Kohler Command 27 on mine. I believe it’s the original. Supposedly 7XX hours on the machine’s meter. I had read previously in this thread it was as simple as pulling a certain fuse to disable it. However, I do believe the operators stating such had earlier 252’s and probably did not have operator presence on their machine’s.
> 
> I think I understand the method you are expanding, turn up the govener some to stay above the limit. Not sure I’d want to risk engine damage for some productivity.
> 
> I do think most of the time I’ve gotten good enough with the machine it doesn’t kick on and slow me down. It would be nice to not have it kick on at all. It still does come on and slow me down at times. Been a while since I bit off so much it stopped the machine dead in its tracks, don’t think I need it anymore.
> 
> Thank you for the reply


Well you can just disconnect the black plug to switch of auto-sweep, it is easy. But honestly I do believe setting your governor a bit higher does not cause much harm.


----------



## TheAMMIXman

Arboristo said:


> Well you can just disconnect the black plug to switch of auto-sweep, it is easy. But honestly I do believe setting your governor a bit higher does not cause much harm.


Hi again Arboristo

Thank you for corresponding with me on this. 

Well if I can do it by just in plugging something that’s the way I’ll go till I have enough cash on hand to replace my motor with a bigger one if it goes. 

You say a black wire to the auto sweep switch? With no actual knowledge of how the system works I assume you may mean the wire that might to a solenoid that restricts hydraulic flow?

Any easy way to indintify this black wire and the correct switch/solenoid?

A larger steer wheel is genius!! My steer shaft needs bearings this winter anyway. Great idea!

I also run less teeth(green teeth)6 total. Those and my 3.5” pulley are what keep me caught up with the big boys. I’ve timed myself against an 1152, I’m not that much slower, and I clean up much better. 

Thank you for the knowledge


----------



## Arboristo

TheAMMIXman said:


> Hi again Arboristo
> 
> Thank you for corresponding with me on this.
> 
> Well if I can do it by just in plugging something that’s the way I’ll go till I have enough cash on hand to replace my motor with a bigger one if it goes.
> 
> You say a black wire to the auto sweep switch? With no actual knowledge of how the system works I assume you may mean the wire that might to a solenoid that restricts hydraulic flow?
> 
> Any easy way to indintify this black wire and the correct switch/solenoid?
> 
> A larger steer wheel is genius!! My steer shaft needs bearings this winter anyway. Great idea!
> 
> I also run less teeth(green teeth)6 total. Those and my 3.5” pulley are what keep me caught up with the big boys. I’ve timed myself against an 1152, I’m not that much slower, and I clean up much better.
> 
> Thank you for the knowledge



You have to leave the solenoid in place as you won't be able switch on the clutch without a signal of the solenoid. (unless you overrule with a separate switch and wires of course, but a lot of unnecessary work)
The black plug is easy to access, it under de hood, let's say left under the most left control handle. I believe it has red wires.

By the way, I'm quite sure you will grind faster with 12 x 700 greenteeth instead of 6.

I'll post a picture of my large wheel later.


----------



## TheAMMIXman

Arboristo

I did I believe look into the 700s because they had three sides to wear on but they did not sell them “for my machine”. Ultimately I found I can usually grind with half a tooth at a time or more even and I never see any un-worn spots so I figured using 50% of the tooth then flipping was fine for me and I never looked further into. If they fit in my current pockets I’ll have to give them a go at some point. Easy enough to try. 

I’ll be looking for that picture of the steer wheel to see how you went about it. 

Thank you very much for the excellent description of the location of the wires to that switch. Ill be sure and let you know when I have it found for certain and I’ll snap a picture for this thread for others to see once verified I got it right. 

Have a great day
Thanks again


----------



## TheAMMIXman

Slotted the holes for my hydro drive belt adjustment today. The 260 belt stretches to the factory limits and stays ok but I’ve changed the belt a bunch and never really let it get old. The 250 belt is to small for me as I’ve opted for a compromise at a 3.5” pulley.

Point of sharing is end mill bit in a hand drill wasn’t the way to go. Die grinder then step drill bit at the new end. Still gotta clean it up with a file in the morning. Little crude as of now.


----------



## TheAMMIXman

So it actually had a 4.1”. I’m going to try the 3.5”. See what happens fellers. Truly close to max now. Also the pump is a little stiff to rotate by hand too. Don’t remeber ifnit was like that. Read here thst May be ok. Updated pick of elongated slots too.


----------



## TheAMMIXman

TheAMMIXman said:


> So it actually had a 4.1”. I’m going to try the 3.5”. See what happens fellers. Truly close to max now. Also the pump is a little stiff to rotate by hand too. Don’t remeber ifnit was like that. Read here thst May be ok. Updated pick of elongated slots too.


Just a note for anyone doing this. I went back to 4.1” and did not use the 3.5” pulley. It created more space to tension the belt and the clutch could rotate further(the 3.5 did this), this created a problem with the clutch wires traveling too far. I had a big job scheduled and didn’t want any problems so I just switched back to the 4.1”. I may have been able to re route the wires but wasn’t going to risk a changed setup, also the A250 belt others have used on the 3” pulley may be a better option if it will fit(I have one I tried on the 4.1” but was way to small and I forgot I had it that night). I will say that with the auto sweep disabled the 4.1” is plenty for me, not often am I wishing to move the swing speed even faster. Usually thats a bad move anyway, getting greedy causes jam ups.


----------



## inter_e

This thread is excellent and way to keep adding info AMMIXman. I just wanted to add that I have the service manual now for my 2003 SC252. It covers wiring and working on it with and without the autosweep and the honda and kohler engines if anyone needs the info. It is not the normal operation manual, but it is for my serial number rig. I don't think I can load the whole pdf on here, but I guess it is worth a try.


----------



## TheAMMIXman

inter_e said:


> This thread is excellent and way to keep adding info AMMIXman. I just wanted to add that I have the service manual now for my 2003 SC252. It covers wiring and working on it with and without the autosweep and the honda and kohler engines if anyone needs the info. It is not the normal operation manual, but it is for my serial number rig. I don't think I can load the whole pdf on here, but I guess it is worth a try.


This is the one book that did not come with my machine. I have a 2012 with operator presence so some stuff will not cross, I’m sure other things will. Thanks for adding it!


----------



## Arboristo

Arboristo said:


> I have made many modifications on my sc252. I actually improved everything on the machine that could be improved and you won't believe how fast it became. I beat a 50HP Predator on an average job easily. The Predator might take slightly larger cuts per second, however the control you have when grinding with a 252 makes grinding so much more efficient than with any other machine. I'm able to follow the contours of the stump perfectly with manual control. This makes grinding so much more effective than grinding with a radio controlled grinder, as that one will be cutting in 'nothing' a lot during the job.
> I have also improved the movability by changing the small wheel for a larger wide wheel. Second best mod ever! I can turn my sc252 180 degrees in just two seconds. I also did an engine mod and made my own (much heavier) grinding wheel with just 12 teeth.


----------



## TheAMMIXman

Arboristo said:


>



Nice machine 252 brother!


----------



## catskillmountaintree

I'm replacing the main horizontal pin & bushing on my 252... I took out the 5/16 nut & bolt holding it in, then removed the big nut on the other end... I put a few more spacers behind the nut, lubed the threads really well, and used the nut kinda like a puller, to pull the shaft out.. I tightened the nut as far as I could with my 3/4 impact wrench, then put heat on the bosses where it was stuck.. the nut slowly pulled the shaft out as it tightened.. when I ran out of threads, I put a longer spacer behind the nut and kept cranking on it... Does anyone have a part number for the bushing and the shaft?


----------



## TheAMMIXman

catskillmountaintree said:


> I'm replacing the main horizontal pin & bushing on my 252... I took out the 5/16 nut & bolt holding it in, then removed the big nut on the other end... I put a few more spacers behind the nut, lubed the threads really well, and used the nut kinda like a puller, to pull the shaft out.. I tightened the nut as far as I could with my 3/4 impact wrench, then put heat on the bosses where it was stuck.. the nut slowly pulled the shaft out as it tightened.. when I ran out of threads, I put a longer spacer behind the nut and kept cranking on it... Does anyone have a part number for the bushing and the shaft?


I can get it for ya when I get home today if I can find my receipt, or find it in my manual. I replaced mine last winter. 

Sounds like you were much smarter in the removal of yours than mine. I could not get mine out. I ended up with engine off and machine on its side, but it came out! Next time I’ll try pulling like you did instead of pushing with every damn trick in the book.


----------



## catskillmountaintree

TheAMMIXman said:


> I can get it for ya when I get home today if I can find my receipt, or find it in my manual. I replaced mine last winter.
> 
> Sounds like you were much smarter in the removal of yours than mine. I could not get mine out. I ended up with engine off and machine on its side, but it came out! Next time I’ll try pulling like you did instead of pushing with every damn trick in the book. View attachment 825722
> View attachment 825723
> View attachment 825724


I was a mechanic for 21 miserable years.. I'm better at fixing things than at explaining how I fixed them..


----------



## TheAMMIXman

catskillmountaintree said:


> I was a mechanic for 21 miserable years.. I'm better at fixing things than at explaining how I fixed them..


I fully understand. Sorry it’s late. Long day. Think the part # you need is 107232001 and the two bushings are 1835025. I’ll attach photos. Not the greatest, sorry. Outward facing camera on the phone doesn’t work.


----------



## catskillmountaintree

Thank you...


----------



## TheAMMIXman

catskillmountaintree said:


> Thank you...



Anytime. Us 252ers got to help each other. Not many of us left I bet. Green teeth and hydro pulley swap if you haven’t read back. That and a saw with a 36” bar and I keep up with most of the diesel machines the tree services have, of course a lot of them don’t really know how to grind a stump efficiently, never had to learn always having as much HP as small cars. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## catskillmountaintree

TheAMMIXman said:


> Anytime. Us 252ers got to help each other. Not many of us left I bet. Green teeth and hydro pulley swap if you haven’t read back. That and a saw with a 36” bar and I keep up with most of the diesel machines the tree services have, of course a lot of them don’t really know how to grind a stump efficiently, never had to learn always having as much HP as small cars.
> I have a 222 (with a 25hp Kohler) and a 252.. The 222 has six 1100 series green teeth on it.. it cuts really well..
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TheAMMIXman

1100series? That the three sided?

I run the 900 series, also 6 teeth. 

Do you know if the pockets are the same and they would work in mine if I ordered some to try?

I called green teeth and asked about the three sided and if they would fit and of course they recommended just to stick with the 900s. I never ordered any to try. I think they may have been 1100s I was asking about but I couldn’t be sure they’d bolt into my pockets. 

Also I forgot to mention disabling auto sweep. Gotta careful not to bite off too much you can jam the machine up and shut it down. Sure is nice to have full control of the machine though. No getting seriously slowed down and you can bite off more without worry of it; just not to much. 

Auto sleep off. Smaller hydro pulley.

And you know about green teeth.


----------



## catskillmountaintree

I'm not sure if the pockets are the same or not.. the shank on the 1100 series teeth is 1/2 inch.. takes a 3/4 inch socket to turn the teeth.. I can measure the length..


----------



## TheAMMIXman

catskillmountaintree said:


> I'm not sure if the pockets are the same or not.. the shank on the 1100 series teeth is 1/2 inch.. takes a 3/4 inch socket to turn the teeth.. I can measure the length..


Ahh. I see. They are likely not the same, mine come off with a 5/8 socket. 

Thank you for the quick reply. 




Keep stumpin! Stay safe! Stay Healthy!
Bruce
“Uncle Roots”


----------



## dstyduhar

Not sure if this will help anyone but I just went through and purchased replacement belts for my machine. FYI I just bought all of these belts from vbeltguys.com for about 60 bucks shipped. The Vermeer jackshaft belt is only $25 right now so that;s not bad!

This is what MY machine had on it:

Jackshaft belt

Part# - #142468001. This is a four rib/cog belt

Engine to jackshaft belt

(2x) Part# 123173-001-1. I'm not sure if this was supposed to be a 2 rib banded belt but my machine had a pair of single ribs

Engine to pump belt

Dayco L428 or more generic 48x280. 


thanks,

Drew


----------



## dstyduhar

Also, I found that my split lock bushing for one of my jackshaft pulleys was cracked. The jackshaft is 1.25" diameter. If you are in this situation, look for Part# SH114 on ebay. TB Woods, Martin, Masterdrive, all make something similar. Just bought one on ebay for 15 bucks brand new. Pay close attention to the hole orientation as I have seen some where the mounting (not threaded) and removal (threaded) hole positions are reversed.

thanks,

Drew


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## TheAMMIXman

Hello fellow 252ers

I installed the oil cooler kit on my machine last night. I bit more work than I expected. Not a direct bolt on for sure. Some (not me) must remove the flywheel to replace a bracket if it doesn’t have the correct hole in it!

I’m going to update it too. I do not like where the factory oil cooler sits on the blower housing. I am either going to get another blower housing to modify differently, or just remotely locate the cooler on the boom or something, and still replace the housing because it now has cut outs. I really do not like how close it is to a sensor wire, or a rectifier lead. 

Kohler Kit: Kohler 24 755 120-s Oil Cooler Kit

It is the right kit. Fits well minus being told close to the some factory wiring. 

If anyone goes to do this and they have trouble with the template message me. They do not make it very clear how to line it up. 

Bruce


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## AGoodSteward

I added a cupholder, an adjustable umbrella, and a clip on fan.
Not mechanical changes, but they sure help me be more productive.


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## TheAMMIXman

AGoodSteward said:


> I added a cupholder, an adjustable umbrella, and a clip on fan.
> Not mechanical changes, but they sure help me be more productive.



I cannot tell for sure if you are kidding. I think maybe you are not. I am seriously considering these modifications. Seriusly might help with productivity!!

I’ve done everything else I think I can do to her without overpowering the machine, wich some have done with good results.


----------



## AGoodSteward

Serious. But also fun. Will drop pics when I get a chance. I thought out the design for a while before building. My grinder is a 222, but practically the same.


----------



## dstyduhar

Hey guys,

I removed the horizontal pin tonight and wanted to echo what Catskillmountaintree said previously about dogging down on the nut to pull the pin through. So long as the collar on each side of the pin is the same size this will work. TheAMMIXman said his machine had different sized collars so make damn sure of the collar size before going this route.

I don't have a nice impact gun so took a slightly different approach where I removed the base pan on the nut side (clutch side) so I could get to the nut vertically. I then used a big double ended 1.5" wrench for hitch balls and used my left foot to push down and tighten the nut. Bottomed out shoulder added spacers and did this over and over until the pin came out. The ends of my pin were definitely corroded and there was a bunch of loud pops but it came out without ton of issue. 

Drew


----------



## dstyduhar

As a side note, I also pulled the boom off today. Does anyone know what size that large nut is? Im measuring 1.8" or 45.9mm flat to flat. Could this really be a 46mm nut?

Regarding the bearings, don't waste your money buying these through Vermeer. My local Vermeer dealer quoted me 50 dollars for bearing/cup so that's $100 to replace both. They are a super popular LM67010/LM67048 combo commonly used on trailers. You need the LM67010 cup and the LM67000LA (which is a LM67048 with a seal). Can get both for not much over 50 bucks if you use Timken. If you use another bearing brand (Enduro for ex) you could prob do it even cheaper. 




thanks,

Drew


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## TheAMMIXman

@dstyduhar 

You got that link for the aftermarket clutch? I can’t seem to find it. Want to get me one. Was almost positive the one you led me to was for my machine. Of the three I know of it looked just like mine. 

Thanks
Bruce


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## dstyduhar

Hey Bruce,

The aftermarket clutches are from a company called extreme outdoor power equipment. I like that the pulleys are all machined billet (not stamped) and the clutch is designed so the bearings are replaceable and not peened into place. Their torque ratings are also higher @ 300ftlbs. It looks like these are comparable to the round clutch that came on these 252's.Here is the website - https://xtremeope.com/. They also sell on ebay/amazon and other sellers distribute their clutches.

I bought the x0755 model for my machine with the 1-7/16" shaft Kohler. It should be here Monday so I will verify against the Ogura I have.

Your engine has the 1-1/8 diameter shaft, right? Is see two possible options here....x0754 or the x0756 model. Looks like they are out of stock on both so might wanna call. The only difference between x0754 and x0755 is the ID. Torque, pulley size, etc. is spec'd the same. The X0756 crosses over to GT5-VE10 which is the # on your clutch you showed me before. Looks like the x0754 crosses over to John Deere models so that's an avenue for searching. I mean, it's not like they designed a unique clutch just for these 252's.






I hope this helps!
Drew


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## dstyduhar

Hey guys,

I am trying something new for the bushings for the bottom horizontal pin. I didn't like how the boom pivot is tightened to just rub on the box frame of the stump grinder. It just rubs off the paint and then rusts. I contemplated adding some thrust shims on the side coupled with the stock steel tension spring they used but ended up using some bronze flanged bushings. I could only get my hands on sintered but really wanted to find cast. The bushing is 1.25" ID, 1.5" OD and 1" long with a 2" OD flange that is 3/16" thick. The 2" OD flange is a perfect fit for the recessed groove on the side. It's like it was made for it. The bushing was a press fit and I had to ream the inside after so the pin could slide through. Slick as butter now. 

BTW, I found out the nut takes a 1-13/16 socket. Weird size.


----------



## dstyduhar

Also, got back from the laser cutters. I sourced some AR500 steel and had them cut out a custom wheel I designed. I'll be curious to see how a bulletproof steel grinding wheel holds up!!

thanks,

Drew


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## dstyduhar

Hey guys,

Wanted to bring something to your attention regarding the cutter wheel and cutter wheel shaft hardware. I found that the cutter wheel shaft flange is drilled for a 7/16" bolt yet the stock hardware are 3/8" bolts. The wheel holes are drilled ~.400". Yes, the wheel is mounted hub-centric on the cutter shaft but the amount of slop here is sort of goofy. FYI that GREEN told me when you use their Green Wheel, they have you use 7/16" bolts with the stock shaft so I assume they also identified the excess play in this area. Here are some options I have considered:

1. Upgrade to a M10 bolt without any modification as it's slightly larger than a 3/8"
2. Drill out wheel for a 7/16 bolt. Not sure how I feel about this on a stock wheel but it's a thought.
3. Use a 7/16" to 3/8" reducer in crank flange so it's a tight fit with stock hardware. These reducers are cheap. Also known as heim joint reducer. Can also be found as a split bushing too.

thanks,

Drew


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## dstyduhar

I finally got to the bottom of the Vermeer Yellow paint color I have been chasin for a last few months.

First off - Vermeer sells rattle can and gallons of their paint. Both are reasonably priced and the colors match well. I've found that sometimes between aerosol and can, a color may dry out to a slightly different shade. I paid around $40 dollars for the gallon from my local dealer. It's Nason FastDry 1K (2414-3363) Pre Reduce Yellow. It's a single component paint but its Acrylic. Yes, it's a water based paint which means you are very limited in your primer selection and they dont recommend direct to metal application. Can't use Rustoleum or any oil based primer......I tried it and it got all sort of weird. So basically, the can paint they sell is dogshit. The aerosol they sell seems to be good quality though.....happy with it and I think its only 6 bucks a can or something so I bought extra.

I went to the local Sherwin Williams industrial store with my gallon of paint I got from Vermeer. They suggested KEM 4000 which is a Marine/Machinery single component Acrylic Alkyd...….yes its a hybrid. The paint sets up quickly like an Acrylic but has oil binders so it's technically an oil based paint and they assured me I could undercoat or overcoat KEM 4000 with OIL or WATER primer/paint without issue. I have attached a picture of the color mix that you can bring in for them to reference. Please note that it's called "Vermeer Yellow" on my Sherwin Williams account so if you go in looking for "Vermeer Yellow" nothing is gonna show up in their system.

As a side note - I have a hard-on for powder coating and have been sandblasting and coating anything off this 252 that can fit in my cabinet. During my hunt to find Vermeer colored powder (requesting various samples) I found that NEW Caterpillar Yellow is an EXACT match. I powder coated a test piece and aerosol sprayed over part of it and its dead nuts match. This is what I bought.









Interpon Powder Coating Cat Yellow Powder Coat Paint - New (1LB) | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Interpon Powder Coating Cat Yellow Powder Coat Paint - New (1LB) at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



www.ebay.com





Regardless if you are looking for powder or liquid, you may have good luck finding a Vermeer match by hunting for NEW Caterpillar yellow if you want to avoid having to get custom mix paint. I went down this rabbit hole and found that I couldn't reliably find new Caterpillar yellow and it became too much of a damn headache. I would order a color that is absolutely NEW Cat yellow but the can would show up with OLD yellow. After calling these paint companies, they don't know **** about the colors they sell so I gave up.

FYI, caterpillar has three yellows. They have OLD Caterpillar yellow which is more of an orangish yellow; In the late 70s they changed to their new yellow. And then in the 2000's they slightly adjusted their shade again but its very slight. I dont know if the powder I got in above link is the new yellow or the new new yellow. Rustoleum sells Caterpillar Yellow in a can and aerosol but its the OLD color and doesn't match. I have a ton of other color info for companies like Majic and Krylon but Ill save you the guys the snoozefest. PM if you want more info.

thanks,

Drew


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## dstyduhar

Hey guys,

So this weekend I went after the drivetrain on this 252 which turned into a massive pain in the ass. If your horizontal boom pin was rusted and tough to get out then I can almost guarantee all the crap in the drivetrain is seized too. I dont know if its because Vermeer assembled all this crap without anti-seize or what. Maybe its from being towed around on a trailer and getting all that brine up under the unit. Maybe both. Regardless, I wanted to put together a play by play on what I went through to help folks from wasting a bunch of time like I did.

*Hydraulic Propel Motor REMOVAL*

I started by loosening the hydraulic motor bolts, removing the shaft bolt/washer and then backing off the adjuster. As a heads up, even if you back off the adjuster all the way I could not get the chain off with the sprockets still on. Ok, so according to the exploded diagram, the chain has a removable link but either Vermeer or the previous owner put the chain on with this removable link on the BACK so you cant get to it anyway. So stupid. The chain was pretty rusty so I just got the bolt cutters out and snipped it. BTW this is #50 chain.

The Technical Manual says to remove FOUR set screws but my sprocket only has TWO. I tripped out on this for a while thinking I was missing something. Its possible the sprocket I have is NOT factory. Both of the set screws in my sprocket were rounded out (of course) but I got them out without drilling. When I encounter a rounded set screw, I will keep rounding it out until I cant feel any resistance at all in the direction of removal. I then use a long torx driver bit of the next size up and tap into the set screw and back it out like that. You want to do your best to align the torx points of the driver with the hex points of the set screw if that makes any sense. You can usually feel when they are aligned. These were super rusty and I sprayed everything with PB Blaster the night before which honestly didn't seem to do much. I tried a three jaw puller to remove the sprocket and it broke. Its tough to get a good grab on the sprocket because you are basically just pulling on the back of the teeth.

Ok so next I drilled two holes 180 degrees from each other on the face of the sprocket with the plan to tap the holes for a 7/16 bolt and use my steering wheel puller to get it off. The sprocket I have is hardened steel so you really need carbide. If you are poor like me, I highly recommend the carbide tipped GLASS cutting bits Harbor Freight sells. I know it sounds crazy but they kick all sorts of ass. As with anything carbide, if you chip the tip you are screwed. After drilling the holes, I tried to tap the sprocket but the metal was just too damn hard to tap by hand. I tried giving the tap a lead in by slightly over drilling the entrance of the hole but just couldn't get things goin. Sure you could over drill and try to tap shallow threads but I wouldnt bother. https://www.harborfreight.com/carbide-tip-glass-and-tile-cutting-drill-bit-set-6-pc-61617.html

The next approach was to weld 7/16 nuts over the drilled holes to try and accomplish the same thing. I'm not a professional welder or anything, just a guy with a standard 220v MIG and 85/15 bottle. I don't know what steel the sprocket is made of but welding did not work for me. I cleaned up the surface of the sprocket so it was bare metal but the moment my wire would touch the sprocket it would pop. The weld on the nut was good but it wouldn't flow to the sprocket. Ok so I screwed around with that for a while and gave up. I know some guys like putting a torch and a LOT of heat to rusted/seized parts but the front seal of the hydraulic motor is very close so I don't think that much heat is good here.

So here is what actually worked for me. I have done this before in similar situations and I hope it helps someone. I used one of those glass cutting bits to drill a hole in the face of the sprocket right above the keyway so hole will intersect the set screw hole that's over the keyway. Once that is done, I used a cut off wheel to cut as much as possible between the hole I drilled and the set screw hole. Using a heavy chisel, smack down into this groove you cut and it will crack the rest of the metal and open up the sprocket enough to free it from the shaft. Once I did this, I used another three jaw puller to get it off easily and the motor comes out. Hope that makes sense.

As reference, the sprocket I have is a Martin 50BS16HT for 1" shaft. You can find these on ebay from 15-25 bucks.

I'll be going after the axle stuff tomorrow.

thanks,

Drew


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## jhg

I wanted to circle back around after a few years and make some comments regarding the Vermeer 252. In ten years my sc252 has brought my business well into the 6 figures worth of revenue.
I read many comments that dismiss this machine for a variety of reasons and yes there are many alternatives that are available. I know well the 252's shortcomings. My point is that if you do not have a lot of cash to purchase a more expensive machine (ie: newer, larger, diesel) don't let nay-sayers push you away from a used 252.

It can make you money.

Yeah, you need to be smart about educating yourself regarding what to look out for (and in my experience plan on adding $1,000.00 in re-building or upgrades to the purchase price) and keep in mind its the motor that is the most spendy part so know how to tell if its got life left and how much, before you go out and start looking to buy a machine.

Stump grinding is not rocket science, but there are tricks to learn that increase productivity and make jobs go much smoother with less work. So keep your head on and don't let others tell you how to make decisions. Take their opinions and weigh them against common sense and the long track record that is in the threads all over the web regarding this machine.

I will repeat what I said earlier. The 252, with a 25hp kohler and yellowjacket teeth made my company 6 figures in revenue. The first 3 yrs we were strickly a stump removal biz and in those years, during one of the worst economic downturns in recent history, our revenue was over 50k each year just from that little Vermeer 252. Not a bad start considering a lot of people were losing their homes, getting laid off and otherwise feeling the crunch.
We built onto this solid base of known income provided by the 252 to buy (over time) a 90hp diesel chipper, a 20,000lb chip truck, a gooseneck dump trailer and a compact wheel loader with grapple. Not to mention a quiver of chainsaws, climbing gear, rigging kits, while paying the usual insurance costs, etc.
The 252 gave us the financial foundation to grow a tree business. Trust me, there are stupider ways to start and grow a tree business than how we did it knowing how much money we could count on worst case scenario.

So we have decided to keep the 252 rather than drop 20+ thousand on a bigger used whatever to replace it. We are putting on the 35 hp Vanguard and doing a total re-build for about 3500.00. (Motor and muffler came to 2400.00 including freight as of 3/2021)


Grind smart.


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## TheAMMIXman

@jhg

So glad to hear I’m not the only one left that thinks this machine is profitable. I’m going one more season I hope on my 27hp and then also plan to purchase a 35 hp vanguard and retro fit it myself next winter. $2200 gets me the motor with the correct shaft. I imagine I’ll come in with similar or less final costs as you expect. I think with 35hp this machine will get me several more good years, it’s a 2012. So long as Vermeer continues to make the stuff that other people don’t that is.

I’m just a part time stumper. 252, 046/28”, MS60/36”. Those three machines make me my money.

Good luck this season!

Bruce


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## Grinditup

ozzy42 said:


> Just stumbled apon this thread.
> 
> This is a simple mod [if you can weld a little bit]
> to actually make use of the annoying safety bar .
> Made simply with some 1x1 and some expanded metal.
> 
> Grind stump ,lower bar ,shove mulch over stump hole,go over lawn with a plastic rake.
> 
> I have done this to 2 of my own grinders ,and on my cousin's in ark.
> Works great.
> 
> Btw,the reason for the expanded metal is 1,it's lite,and 2,it does not obstruct your view when folded up with a bungee,like most people do with the guard anyway.
> Got the idea from seeing the chip blade on my friends bigger rayco that still had all the paint on it because they put it on the wrong end of the machine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hope it helps .
> 
> 
> 
> BTW also .
> Love the idea of the undersize pulley to make the ##### locomote faster.
> Gonna look into that for sure.


Could you send me the picture of the blade. I want to do something


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## RyeThomas

So im bringing this way old thread up as I’m late to the party. Picking up a 2004 252 tomorrow. Trying to source the following

repair/service manual
engine service kit, plug, oil filter, air filters, etc
hydraulic filter, fluid recommend 
good place for all parts, bearings, extras, etc

Is there a go to shop or online person here that still deals with this stuff? I looked and all I could find on EBAY was stuff from China, I’d rather go OEM or at least OEM quality if possible.

I need a side gig for when my kids actually go back to school this year and I loath running my Toro Sgr13 manual machine. Thanks Gents, Rye.


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## TheAMMIXman

RyeThomas said:


> So im bringing this way old thread up as I’m late to the party. Picking up a 2004 252 tomorrow. Trying to source the following
> 
> repair/service manual
> engine service kit, plug, oil filter, air filters, etc
> hydraulic filter, fluid recommend
> good place for all parts, bearings, extras, etc
> 
> Is there a go to shop or online person here that still deals with this stuff? I looked and all I could find on EBAY was stuff from China, I’d rather go OEM or at least OEM quality if possible.
> 
> I need a side gig for when my kids actually go back to school this year and I loath running my Toro Sgr13 manual machine. Thanks Gents, Rye.


Welcome 252 brother! I as well was late to the party a few years ago. I have done most of the mods in this thread except a bigger motor and the plow. A 252 set up like this and a big saw have been working well for me as a part time gig. Very well. 

I’ll send you some manuals I have later. One is small enough to go through AS. Other has to be email.

For the motor stuff it’s a fairly standard Koehler they just pull the ID tags off. For the machine parts some have part #s where some of the number crosses and some don’t. A lot can be found quality aftermarket once you know what to buy. The chain is a standard Whitney 50 or something like that for example, comes in the Whitney bag in a Vermeer box. Only thing not made by Vermeer I think I actually needed to buy from them was the muffler, the others I could find sat too close to the clutch housing in my option so I just went oem.
Good luck!
Bruce
“UncleRoots”


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## RyeThomas

TheAMMIXman said:


> Welcome 252 brother! I as well was late to the party a few years ago. I have done most of the mods in this thread except a bigger motor and the plow. A 252 set up like this and a big saw have been working well for me as a part time gig. Very well.
> 
> I’ll send you some manuals I have later. One is small enough to go through AS. Other has to be email.
> 
> For the motor stuff it’s a fairly standard Koehler they just pull the ID tags off. For the machine parts some have part #s where some of the number crosses and some don’t. A lot can be found quality aftermarket once you know what to buy. The chain is a standard Whitney 50 or something like that for example, comes in the Whitney bag in a Vermeer box. Only thing not made by Vermeer I think I actually needed to buy from them was the muffler, the others I could find sat too close to the clutch housing in my option so I just went oem.
> Good luck!
> Bruce
> “UncleRoots”


Got the manuals, thank you very much for your help and time. Ordered most things off the existing part numbers. 

Im probably going to spend some decent money on Triax premium HLP hydraulic oil and change the fluid, then start running full synthetic 10/30 in the Kohler. Machines a shop kept 03 with 1899 hrs, engine is an 07 so must be a replacement.

Now to go thru the thread again and decide on a tooth set up. It has the Vermeer S Pro style teeth. Guy I purchased it from has several grinders/setups and said the greenteeth are a little aggressive on the small machine and bang it around more. Uses greenteeth on his larger stuff. Said the tooth set up on it (Vermeer pro) while not the fastest cutting is the smoothest and probably best option for a rookie operator like me.

Said his buddy has a sc252 and went Rayco teeth and is very happy. The Rayco seem similar to the Leonardi Tomahawk. 

my options without changing the wheel: 

Get a new set of Vermeer Pro S from American Cutting Edge for around $150
Get 16 new pockets and Leonardi Tomahawk $376
(can’t seem to find info on swapping to Rayco)?
16 tooth green teeth set up $330. Might be a lot for a little machine
6 tooth (900 series) green teeth set up $140. Interesting, less teeth, possibly more speed with less drag? IDK


So I have a green wheel for my bench grinder and the smaller wheel for greenteeth. I’m just not sure which way to go. So before I spend another dime, what say you guys?
Thanks for your help, Ryan.


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## TheAMMIXman

RyeThomas said:


> Got the manuals, thank you very much for your help and time. Ordered most things off the existing part numbers.
> 
> Im probably going to spend some decent money on Triax premium HLP hydraulic oil and change the fluid, then start running full synthetic 10/30 in the Kohler. Machines a shop kept 03 with 1899 hrs, engine is an 07 so must be a replacement.
> 
> Now to go thru the thread again and decide on a tooth set up. It has the Vermeer S Pro style teeth. Guy I purchased it from has several grinders/setups and said the greenteeth are a little aggressive on the small machine and bang it around more. Uses greenteeth on his larger stuff. Said the tooth set up on it (Vermeer pro) while not the fastest cutting is the smoothest and probably best option for a rookie operator like me.
> 
> Said his buddy has a sc252 and went Rayco teeth and is very happy. The Rayco seem similar to the Leonardi Tomahawk.
> 
> my options without changing the wheel:
> 
> Get a new set of Vermeer Pro S from American Cutting Edge for around $150
> Get 16 new pockets and Leonardi Tomahawk $376
> (can’t seem to find info on swapping to Rayco)?
> 16 tooth green teeth set up $330. Might be a lot for a little machine
> 6 tooth (900 series) green teeth set up $140. Interesting, less teeth, possibly more speed with less drag? IDK
> 
> 
> So I have a green wheel for my bench grinder and the smaller wheel for greenteeth. I’m just not sure which way to go. So before I spend another dime, what say you guys?
> Thanks for your help, Ryan.
> 
> 
> View attachment 914572
> View attachment 914573


Hi Ryan

I have not heard of that brand of synthetic oil but with my pump pulley changed I did go synthetic as well, Amsoil tho.

In the motor I just run cheap oil and change it a lot. STP oil and filters are the cheapest I could find and I prob never put 50 hours on it before changing it.

I run the 6 tooth setup from green teeth and love it. Works best if I keep em really sharp so I flip and switch a few times in a really full day. With only 6 teeth it takes no time at all. I’d have to say the green teeth, hydro pump pulley, and disabling the auto sweep is the most bang for the buck mod your gonna get on this machine.

I have not used other teeth except the factory yellow jackets I think they’re called that came with my machine. You can flip them, I couldn’t sharpen them. After a day or two I’d want to flip and rotate them but it’s a bit early so I’d get slowed down till I do, and there was many many more teeth to switch.

I used to sharpen my own green teeth but it’s just not worth it anymore for me. If I have over 100 to do it takes me days, and bills sharpening service will sharpen that many 900s for not even $300, so I send them out now. Sharpening carbide isn’t good for ones health anyway, even with a mask and a vacuum with a hepa filter on it sucking the dust off as it’s being sharpened I know I don’t catch everything.

If you go green teeth get two of those starter sets so you have an extra set of pockets and bolts. I’ve never broken a pocket but I’ve broke the bolts a hanfull of times and come ready to switch them on every job.

I think that’s everything you asked about. Just my .02 on it all. Hopefully others chime in but this thread isnt really all that active, great resource, it seems every year or two someone like me or you or this guy Drew gets a 252 and adds to it, just not that active anymore. 
Bruce


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## RyeThomas

Know this is a pretty dead thread but I can’t seem to find the upper shaft pulley part #180007297
I don’t have a bearing/pulley shop local.


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## TheAMMIXman

RyeThomas said:


> Know this is a pretty dead thread but I can’t seem to find the upper shaft pulley part #180007297
> I don’t have a bearing/pulley shop local.


I have sourced both the “cutter wheel belt” side pulleys and “shaft locators”(I forget the right term) on eBay NOS very inexpensive in the past. I have not replaced the jack shaft belt side stuff but I remember the pulley(actually refereed to as a sheave) had the standard part numbers on them. Once your familiar with the “manufacturing world” terminology and part numbers they are easy to locate.

Clean the dirt off find numbers on the sheave and they’ll be easy enough to locate, or at least used to be. The inside part is ordered by the inside the sheave diameter I believe, bolt pattern, and of course shaft diameter.

Pretty sure I take your meaning correctly, motor side jackshaft pulley. If you mean the shaft itself that’s even easier, just find the right size diameter and length and I think it’s 1/4” keyed on both sides. I found one with double keys on both ends. 

Hope this helps


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## RyeThomas

Found I have an awesome Vermeer dealer in Manassas Va, called them up and got the parts right away. Knew what they were talking about, he told me I would probably break the hub bushing. Sure enough I did but I ordered one thanks to the dealer advice.
Should be done with chasing, tightening, eating drive belts and losing cutter head power. My pulley/sheave was worn the heck out.
Really want to give her a go now, last job was awesome with the new Greenteeth set up till an hour or so,in the belt was slipping and I had to complete the next 4 hours with kit gloves barely taking a bite Or she would slip.


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## TheAMMIXman

Hello Boys

I finally made a plow for my 252 like some other gent did on here a while back. Same principle, can keep it up or down, and mine comes all the way off.

Here’s a couple quick videos of the progress, all that’s left now is paint:



Happy Holidays to All!
Bruce


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## dstyduhar

TheAMMIXman said:


> Hello Boys
> 
> I finally made a plow for my 252 like some other gent did on here a while back. Same principle, can keep it up or down, and mine comes all the way off.
> 
> Here’s a couple quick videos of the progress, all that’s left now is paint:
> 
> 
> 
> Happy Holidays to All!
> Bruce



Hey Bruce, been a while man.....hope you guys are doing well. I think that's an awesome design! I have some box steel and catwalk laying around and would love to make this. You can be the guinea pig and let us know how it works! See ya!

Drew


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## TheAMMIXman

Hi Drew!

I will certainly report back on the effectiveness once spring hits and I use it. Glad your 252ng still, and hope your machine is going well for you. 

Happy Hollidays!
Bruce


----------

