# Fruit Orchard



## Iron Head (Mar 15, 2011)

Who's got a fruit orchard or getting into one?
I'm about to prepare an espalier orchard of a few varieties of Asian Pears, European Pears, Apples, Cherries, Raspberries, and blueberries. This year, I will be receiving all of my rootstocks and will be grafting/budding my own plants.
Love to see pics of your established orchards.


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## dingeryote (Mar 16, 2011)

Got a bit of a Blueberry patch out back.

LOL!! I'm sick of Pruning and still have about 20,000 to go.

We don't tinker with tree fruits anymore, but might tinker with Peaches again.

Good luck with all the grafting and Peat/pearlite festivities!!

Starting from root stocks is work, but is going to be gratifying in the end for you.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## Iron Head (Mar 17, 2011)

Holy Cow 20,000 blueberry bushes!
What varieties are you growing?
I'm assuming you didn't purchase all 20,000 plants so what type of propagation you found successful with blueberries? Can you share your experience? Yep, 50/50 peat and perlite is my choice. But I also tried Rockwool this year and found it to be very productive. The problem with using rockwool is it's difficult to pull the cutting out of the wool.
Right now I have a few 1gal containers of Spartan, Duke, Darrow, and Patriots. I like mine big! Next year I'll attempt to do some softwood cuttings.
I got 50 Pyrus "betch" rootstocks coming tomorrow. 
I'll try to get those ready for my Asian and European pears.
I got one Chinese Fragrant pear started a couple of years ago from a seed. I'm very proud of this tree because it is the first in my state or maybe in the nation. I hope to produce about 10 of these trees.


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## dingeryote (Mar 17, 2011)

LOL!!!
More like 30,000+. Just got done with the Jerseys at the north patch, and still have to prune and clear vines on the Patch out back.
Snow was too deep all Febuary to even get in the field.

Jerseys and Blue crop mostly here, but we do have a few rows of "What nots" with Darrows,Dixies, Blue Ray, Early blues, Rubel, some Stanleys, and Rancocas and a half Row of Patriots.

At a certain point in scale, it costs about the same to buy 2yr old Potted as it does to cultivate your own. At least here anyway.
Any more than about 500 and it's better to save time and $$ and just trade or buy from a neighbor.

Whatever you do though, steer clear of plants cultivated from tissues. Half the time they fizz out after 4 years and never really take. Just stay stunted untill you get tired of wasting fertilizer and fuel on them. Rooted cuttings will either take and thrive, or croak early. 

Rockwool? Never tried it. Expensive and PH is all outta whack. Just bales of Canuck Sphagnum, local ground(Sand) and pearlite in 1/3, soaked down initially with Miracid into a Tacky muck, then shoveled into old Lugs for a bed. The ones that take are hearty, and few "Iffys" sprout and waste time. 
Are the roots hanging up in the rockwool? That would just suck if so.

You're gonna like the Patriots.
It's been a solid and hearty cultivar. I Really,really, like the Patriots...Yields can be crazy. The early bloom makes me nervous every year though so I hesitate to put in any more.

Blue crop are our big Berry producers. Quarter sized fruit isn't unusual and they average about the size of Concord Grapes.
The floppy Canes drive me nuts but the yield is worth the headaches.

Pears?
Bless you.
The Chineese imports of concentrate and fruit "Product" have killed the market, and most guys have dozed out the pears here.
Somebody has gotta be growing the things.

Is your ground going to support the Berries and the pears?

The Cane fruit(Except Blackberrys!! LOL!) can be snotty about ph.
Are you using a raised bed and trellis?

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## Iron Head (Mar 17, 2011)

The Chinese kill just about everything.
I thought Blue Crop is a medium size fruit? Quarter size is huge.
My soil is very soft with a high water table and drains fairly fast.
My neighbor down the road has a blue berry patch going more than 30 years. I got the pear rootstock for this type of soil.

Rockwool is that type of fiberous insulation material. I think it's a better rooting media for cuttings compared to the peat mixture. But it is more expensive. I'll experiment some more on this stuff.

Have you ever done air-layering propation on the berries?
I want my trees on trellis so that it is easier to prune and spray. And it's different than the traditional tree orchard.


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## dingeryote (Mar 17, 2011)

Here's some Blue crop for ya.









Never done any of the Air propegation. Looks like a lot of fussing around really.

Just walk through the rows after pruning and snip the new Growth off of the pruned canes, and snip into 3-4" with a at least one node on each length. Scrape about 1/4" off of one side at the base and sink 'em into the Peat with some root stim. Space the starts about an inch apart in the beds. Gotta wait untill budbreak before pulling the cuttings out of the fridge though. The things really need thier dormant period. 

The rock wool sounds interesting, but I can see where the hair fine roots of the starts is going to get bound up in the stuff.

Not sure where you're going with the trellis and Bluerry bushes.
You can train them some, but a trellis would be an interesting fight.
The Patriots are 3/4 high and are easy to work with.

I always thought you guys had acidic soil on one side, and Alkyd on the other. 

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## Labman (Mar 17, 2011)

I considered it a major victory when I convinced my wife to let me cut our apple trees down. Some things are more bother than they are worth. I slaved for years and never got any decent apples. Some things are best left to the pros.


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## Iron Head (Mar 17, 2011)

Here is the link to my favorite local fruit nursery.
I test fruits and get my stock from Bob.
Check out his esparlier pics to get an idea of what I'm trying to accomplish.
Hartman's Fruit Photos | SmugMug
Those berries are huge. How do they taste?
Of all the varieties which ones produce the largest size berries?
So how and when do you trim/prune blueberry bushes Dinger?
Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

Rockwool is intended to be transplanted and not actually removed from the rooted cuttings.
I actually made that mistake when I used the entire slab to propogate my Leyland Cypress cuttings. But I ended up cutting out the wool slab with the rooted cuttings intacked.

Labman, I've cut down so many fruit trees that didn't turn out.
It's a waste of space and resources to keep something of no use.
I suggest you find a local nursery or farm that actually have bearing fruits in the summer for you to try. I hooked up my friends and family with Bob. When the fruiting season is in placed, they would visit Bob and do the actual tastes test and prepay for that particular tree to be picked up late fall.


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## dingeryote (Mar 18, 2011)

I see what you're after with the Trellis now. Wierd LOL!!

I see the advantages for smaller orchards with dwarf trees though.
No need to leave room to get a tractor and spreader in there, and no dadgum ladders to fight on soft ground.
The elevated drip line caught my eye. No fighting the things when it's time to cultivate and the critters can't chew on it.
I like it. Makes for a nice garden.

The largest Berrys I have ever seen came off of Chandler bushes that had gotten frost damage, and lost about half thier blooms.
Quarter sized and larger was average that year. They are normally about the size of our Biggest Blue crop. 

Flavor on Blue crop is "Classic Blueberry", with just a smidge more acid than Jerseys. If ya like them a little more tart than sweet, they are a good choice for production. 


Here's another largish one. Blue Rays. I call 'em Pie berrys because they have that sweet but tart bite to them. I don't care for them much because they ripen up more for hand picking than machine harvest. You can hand pick on them from July through August though.






Pruning is done to remove the oldest canes(6-7 years), keep the middles open, shape the crown, and then to get the danglers out of the middles.
We Prune late, and after full dormancy as pruning early will cause early blooms and cause "frost panic disorder" as well as time things with the Union Bees contractual working conditions.
It also helps after stressfull seasons to get as much cane nutrient and hormone stored in the crown for next season.
Plain old Corona loppers and snipped as low to the crown as possible. 

So you're potting and starting at the same time with the Rock wool.

Pots take up lots of space, so generally folks bed enmasse then transfer to pots once started.


Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## Iron Head (Mar 18, 2011)

Those are very nice looking berries. I can't wait to have mine producing like that. Which type produce the good sweet taste?

I love dwarf trees but my soil parameters do not compliment with any dwarf rootstocks. The rootstock that is best suited for my soil is the Pyrus betulaefolia and that will produce standard size trees.
I won't mess with big ass trees so that is why I'm trying to utilize the trellis esparlier method to manage the trees. As for the berries, I will let them grow and prune them the way you have shown.


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## dingeryote (Mar 18, 2011)

Jerseys and Berkelys are about as sweet as I can stand.

Your Patriots are about a 6-7 of 10 on the sweet scale.

Dunno if you have found it yet, but here's a link for ya.
Blueberry Information at Michigan State University


Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## Iron Head (Mar 21, 2011)

Thanks for the link Dingeryote.
Can you share more in details about your method of propagation?
When do you start?
Length of cuttings and any specific features for the cuttings?
How do you build your rooting tray; dimensions, drainage, etc...
You use greenhouse or just cover with clear plastic?
What about heating elements?
Have you used Clonex rooting gel? This stuff is amazing.

Thanks


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## dingeryote (Mar 21, 2011)

Generally we just use retired lugs for Peat beds, and plastic to make a Hot bed.

Cuttings come from new growth(Branch) on pruned canes and unwanted new shoots. Just walk the rows after pruning and snip.

Then cut the new growth to 3-4" at an angle, so as to have at least one new growth bud on each. Then bundle them up and toss 'em into the fridge.

Come spring when the leaf buds are about to break, the cuttings get about 1/4" scraped off of the bottom on one side, dipped in stim-root and then plopped into the beds about an inch apart. 

From there it's just a matter of keeping the beds damp, and opening up the plastic when it gets real warm. 

Not as productive as the dedicated greenhouse methods, and there are more losses this way, but those that take and stick, are good and healthy. The marginal starts are a waste of time to even pot IMO. 2" roots by August or they get pitched.

Never tried the clonex. Just the stim-root powder.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## Iron Head (Mar 24, 2011)

dingeryote said:


> Generally we just use retired lugs for Peat beds, and plastic to make a Hot bed.
> 
> Cuttings come from new growth(Branch) on pruned canes and unwanted new shoots. Just walk the rows after pruning and snip.
> 
> ...


But if you don't prune in the fall, you can just take the cuttings late winter/early spring? Like right now as we speak?
When you have some time, would you be kind to share a picture of your typical cutting and prep before you stick it in the peat? 
Thanks


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## dingeryote (Mar 24, 2011)

Pretty much.

Pruning gets done as weather allows from Late December through April. The new growth needed just lays there in the row middles untill it gets collected.

If a guy wanted to, snipping new growth right off the bush in the spring would work, but why snip off fruit bearing growth when there's a bunch laying on the ground.

Next time we do any starts I'll take pics.
Just don't hold your breath as It might be a couple years. 
I can trade fruit for 3yr old potted plants with a greenhouse buddy who gets most of our cuttings. Saves us time and money.

I gotta head over and visit them and see how our 2 yr olds are doing, and if they are playing in the mud, I'll take some pics for ya.

OH!!
Almost forgot. The current issue of the Fruit Grower news has an article about Berry production in your state, and some discussion of varietys that are doing better than others. Snag a copy if you can.


Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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