# Wesco options.



## 056 kid (Nov 23, 2014)

It's time. I have decided to replace the whites with wescos and I have a few questions that I hope a few of you may be able to asnswer. 
First off, which is the kevlar threading, Is it worth it? Secondly, inside lining. I see no lining is standard but would it be beneficial to get the black leather lining? And lastly, tricounties. It sounds like they are great for extra support,(i have a bad left ankle) as well as getting more traction in the steeps and in rocky ground. I can recall slipping a lot trying to get up close from the low side and sliding cause of roots that my corks wouldn't grab cause of the angle of my foot. The tricounties alone run 120.00, so i kind of want to make sure they are going to be beneficial. At 859$ i want to get this right!
That is about all I can think of at the moment, Thanks guys & gals!!


----------



## RandyMac (Nov 23, 2014)

I have a pair of Jobmasters, except for the sole screws, they are built like the basic Whites. They run about $425, about $50-75 less than Whites.
My ankles are good, can't help you there, but they do give a lot of support.


----------



## Skeans (Nov 23, 2014)

I have a set of Wesco timber boots, I love them so far they are only 3 years old. If you can get out to the factory to see them in person and have them do the measurements it's well worth it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## northmanlogging (Nov 23, 2014)

Just curious but why you getting away from the whites, I ask cause I think I'll be needing a new set soon


----------



## 2dogs (Nov 23, 2014)

I have basic Wesco calks and they are fine. Never had tricunnies (sp) so no advice there. I would not go with leather lining but once again I have no real world experience there. Most of my boots are Whites and I prefer them over Wesco.
BTW I'm shocked at the price!


----------



## paccity (Nov 23, 2014)

you mite check out the reddawg lace to toe . was impressed with the fit , breakin was painless and are holding up great sofar . as far as i'm concerned great bang for the buck. i am good friends with the family that owns wesco and he can't even get a good deal on them. thats a lot of coin for foot wear. http://www.baileysonline.com/productImages/image.axd/i.51809/w.172/h.169/x._AZ/xm.0/Red+Dawg+Boots-+Black+Leather+Lace-To-Toe+Vibram_M.jpg


----------



## Skeans (Nov 23, 2014)

There's also Kulien Boots out of Centralia but they can get super pricey fast


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## treeslayer2003 (Nov 23, 2014)

i can't help ya much since i don't wear calks, but i did have a pair of carolina loggers years ago with leather lining and i thought they helped the fit but they were a little warm in hot weather. not as bad as that gore tex though.....i will never own gor tex again.

pac, you liked the fit on the red dawgs? i need narrow and i see they are only in medium or wide.......they made here or china?


----------



## paccity (Nov 23, 2014)

treeslayer2003 said:


> i can't help ya much since i don't wear calks, but i did have a pair of carolina loggers years ago with leather lining and i thought they helped the fit but they were a little warm in hot weather. not as bad as that gore tex though.....i will never own gor tex again.
> 
> pac, you liked the fit on the red dawgs? i need narrow and i see they are only in medium or wide.......they made here or china?


 w
made in canada.http://www.canadawestboots.com/index.html.


----------



## treeslayer2003 (Nov 23, 2014)

ha, good to know..........i been thinkin about tryin a pair.


----------



## northmanlogging (Nov 23, 2014)

What no calks slayer? unless you spend more time in a cab you'll never go back to rubber


----------



## treeslayer2003 (Nov 23, 2014)

na, i'm in and out of the skidder and loader so much, it would be a pain. plus its pretty flat here........once in a while i get on a gulley and think about calks, then i am back to flat ground.
worst trouble i have is breaking down the arch support, but i get 2 years or so out of 150$ boots with out taking any care of um so it ain't bad.


----------



## Gologit (Nov 24, 2014)

treeslayer2003 said:


> ha, good to know..........i been thinkin about tryin a pair.


 
They're pretty good boots, like paccity said. I bought a pair to wear while my last set of Wescos were being built. For the price I didn't expect much but I was surprised. Good quality boots.


----------



## madhatte (Nov 24, 2014)

I can tell you that the major limitation on Kuliens is time -- there's only one guy full-time there right now and he's busting his ass to keep up with the demand but there are a lot more people who want boots than there is the one guy building them! 

As for me, I'm still happy with Nick's -- very good boot for the price. I'm into my second pair and I have no complaints.


----------



## 056 kid (Nov 24, 2014)

I pulled the trigger. Wish I cold go over to Scapp to get measured, but I'm 3000 miles away @ the moment. I've got my fitment deal on the way & I'm positive about good results. I'll post some pics in 3 or 4 months. Thanks men.


----------



## Skeans (Nov 24, 2014)

That's one of the main reasons I use them is they are only a few miles from me


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 056 kid (Nov 24, 2014)

Say skeans, you don't happen to be a steelhead/salmon junky do you?


----------



## Skeans (Nov 24, 2014)

No I'm not don't hardly have time with logging and doing Christmas trees I'm pretty busy a lot of my buddies are though


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## KYLogger (Nov 24, 2014)

Got a pair of Hoffman Faller calks, not too pricey, have had em about a year and are holding up well. A little chunky, and the sympatex lining is crap. I have a pair of the Red Dawg 12" "logger boots" these things are plain................leather.............boots.............. and are the toughest work boot I have owned. Can't say enough good things about em'. I am wanting a new pair of calks and am hem hawing between $450 Whites or the Red Dawgs.


----------



## Skeans (Nov 25, 2014)

You might try Masen's they have their brand which use to be built by White for 200 or 250 I can't remember off hand.


----------



## hseII (Nov 25, 2014)

Those of y'all that like the red dawgs, are they waterproof?

A lineman buddy of mine loves his; he's had Wescos, Hoffmans, Whites, and recommended the Red Dawgs.

For me a boot must be 4 things;
1) Not Made in China
2) Leather 
3) Waterproof
4) Comfortable

Ive gotten to where i only buy Safety Toe boots out I habit, and because I like my toes.

Do Red Dawgs fit that?


----------



## treeslayer2003 (Nov 25, 2014)

i learned that i don't like waterproof. that membrane and the padding make um hot........i hate sweaty feet.


----------



## hseII (Nov 25, 2014)

treeslayer2003 said:


> i learned that i don't like waterproof. that membrane and the padding make um hot........i hate sweaty feet.


I Hate Wet Feet.

Good Socks and Spray keep my feet dry on the inside; I like a boot that does the same.


----------



## madhatte (Nov 25, 2014)

Skeans said:


> You might try Masen's they have their brand which use to be built by White for 200 or 250 I can't remember off hand.



They're built by Hoffman's now, which are also a fine boot, and at a good price.


----------



## SliverPicker (Nov 25, 2014)

Doesn't it cost $100 just for the "fit kit" from Wesco?

I need boots BADLY, but I have narrow feet and there doesn't seem to be any such thing anymore. A guy used to be able to buy narrow work boots off the shelf, but I haven't seen anything narrower than a D in years. With D width boots I have to wear two thick pairs of socks of I'm in for a world of hurt.


----------



## Joe46 (Nov 25, 2014)

hseII said:


> Those of y'all that like the red dawgs, are they waterproof?
> 
> A lineman buddy of mine loves his; he's had Wescos, Hoffmans, Whites, and recommended the Red Dawgs.
> 
> ...


 No they don't. I own the Vibram soled ones, but the corks are the same. They are an all leather boot. You can make them water repellant not waterproof.


----------



## Gologit (Nov 25, 2014)

SliverPicker said:


> Doesn't it cost $100 just for the "fit kit" from Wesco?
> 
> I need boots BADLY, but I have narrow feet and there doesn't seem to be any such thing anymore. A guy used to be able to buy narrow work boots off the shelf, but I haven't seen anything narrower than a D in years. With D width boots I have to wear two thick pairs of socks of I'm in for a world of hurt.


 
I don't remember what the extra cost was but it wasn't a lot. All I can say is that is was sure worth it. Once you get custom fitted boots you'll wonder how you ever wore anything else.
You spend a lot of your life in your boots. Why not get the best?


----------



## Gologit (Nov 25, 2014)

Joe46 said:


> No they don't. I own the Vibram soled ones, but the corks are the same. They are an all leather boot. You can make them water repellant not waterproof.



Obenauf's seems to do a good job.


----------



## Trx250r180 (Nov 25, 2014)

treeslayer2003 said:


> i learned that i don't like waterproof. that membrane and the padding make um hot........i hate sweaty feet.


Same here ,summer boots are unlined ,winter boots are gortex ,actually the last danners i got are not too bad in warm weather once they got broke in ,i like being able to take a hose to my boots while wearing them and no leaks ,that is a nice feature ,faller that works next door just got his whites rebuilt ,boy did those look stiff ,lol


----------



## Joe46 (Nov 25, 2014)

Gologit said:


> Obenauf's seems to do a good job.


 Yes it does Bob, but remember I live in Western Wash. Not Ca. The best stuff ever was the Loggers World Boot Oil. That was about as close as you could get to waterproofing your boots. I still have some boot socks that are forever stained from it


----------



## madhatte (Nov 25, 2014)

I'm an Obenauf's fan for life.


----------



## SliverPicker (Nov 25, 2014)

I just checked it's $99 for the custom fit form to be sent. I did a mock order. The only options I added where a leather lining and a steel toe. $700. Maybe some day. I need another saw before I need boots.


----------



## 056 kid (Nov 25, 2014)

Yep. 99.00 for the custom fit. Like I was saying, the tricounies where 120.00. Got them all around. 14" uppers, lace to toe, Kevlar threads, spring heel, and rough out lowers. No lining. I don't step on my feet so shoes last a while. I do have a high instep, don't know if I need to tell them that or not. I'll probably cop a set of reddawgs for the mean time as well as a standby. I can get a smart discount on them right now.


----------



## SliverPicker (Nov 25, 2014)

That's a good point about the high instep. It would seem they would need to have a drawing or measurement of that.


----------



## madhatte (Nov 25, 2014)

SliverPicker said:


> That's a good point about the high instep. It would seem they would need to have a drawing or measurement of that.



The way they do it at Kuliens is they start at the middle of your arch and build forward to your toe and back to your heel accordingly. That way, the boot is made to fit your foot rather than the opposite. Of course, that's why they are so expensive.


----------



## Gologit (Nov 25, 2014)

056 kid said:


> ....have a high instep, don't know if I need to tell them that or not.



Better let them know. If you're paying for custom built boots get them exactly the way you want.


----------



## RandyMac (Nov 25, 2014)

I was lucky with the Wescos. my twin bro did the custom fit and broke them in for me.


----------



## 1270d (Nov 25, 2014)

I would recommend buying a set of perfekt foot beds from cabelas. Its cork and forms to your foot after a bit making just about any boots custom fit


----------



## 056 kid (Nov 25, 2014)

The leather sets good to my feet after breakin. I've never liked insert soles. They move around and all that jazz.. there was a section for comments in the order sequence, but I didn't say anything. I'll make note on my fitment form. 
I just hope mine are as badass as Mr.Gologit's, those are some slick lookin shoes Bob.


----------



## Gologit (Nov 25, 2014)

056 kid said:


> The leather sets good to my feet after breakin. I've never liked insert soles. They move around and all that jazz.. there was a section for comments in the order sequence, but I didn't say anything. I'll make note on my fitment form.
> I just hope mine are as badass as Mr.Gologit's, those are some slick lookin shoes Bob.



LOL....They aren't as pretty as they used to be but they're sure holding up well. Hmmmm...kinda like the owner.


----------



## paccity (Nov 25, 2014)

yes the reddawgs are not water prof oil them up good , i like Obenauf's. and if you can ware wool a good wool sock is good summer or winter.


----------



## treeslayer2003 (Nov 25, 2014)

SliverPicker said:


> Doesn't it cost $100 just for the "fit kit" from Wesco?
> 
> I need boots BADLY, but I have narrow feet and there doesn't seem to be any such thing anymore. A guy used to be able to buy narrow work boots off the shelf, but I haven't seen anything narrower than a D in years. With D width boots I have to wear two thick pairs of socks of I'm in for a world of hurt.


as far as vibrams, the only ones i have found in B width is the carolina domestic logger. it must be the domestic, the chinese versions don't come in B. i had a pair of BA Masons that fit ok once but i can't remember if they were B or not.
i got narrow long feet, hard to get a good fit.


----------



## northmanlogging (Nov 26, 2014)

I have a pair of the carolina US loggers... bean abusing them for a few years now, only trouble is a spot of threading I burned off... I've only oiled them like twice... but they are for the machine shop... so they get lots of oil there...


----------



## treeslayer2003 (Nov 26, 2014)

they the best fit i found in years..........i cannot wear import boots really......to wide n my ankle will flip over..........kinda hurts


----------



## SliverPicker (Nov 26, 2014)

ts, you are right I just looked it up. Carolina's 9" Domestic boot comes in B width. I didn't know that anyone did that any more. I don't know that my feet are B width, but they sure as heck aren't D. 

The problem is the heel. I have come to hate the heeled boots. On really steep ground they are a major pain in my hind end. Plus the amount of blowdown I step over an an average week guarantees that at some point I won't lift a foot high enough and catch that same heel on something. Face plants get my blood boiling.

How does one determine the width of one's feet? Shoe stores used to have those aluminum fitting guides with the sliders on them, but I haven't seen one of those in years.


----------



## KYLogger (Nov 26, 2014)

I broke (or severely sprained) my ankle years ago and never went to the doctor. I have to have a heeled boot or I walk the leather off the sole on the heel. Got so used to them that a flat soled boot feels weird. That is gonna be a requirement for my next pair of calks (coming soon) I have about walked my Hoffmans off.


----------



## treeslayer2003 (Nov 26, 2014)

SliverPicker said:


> ts, you are right I just looked it up. Carolina's 9" Domestic boot comes in B width. I didn't know that anyone did that any more. I don't know that my feet are B width, but they sure as heck aren't D.
> 
> The problem is the heel. I have come to hate the heeled boots. On really steep ground they are a major pain in my hind end. Plus the amount of blowdown I step over an an average week guarantees that at some point I won't lift a foot high enough and catch that same heel on something. Face plants get my blood boiling.
> 
> How does one determine the width of one's feet? Shoe stores used to have those aluminum fitting guides with the sliders on them, but I haven't seen one of those in years.


i ain't seen that thing since i was a kid.......i don't think our feet shrunk, i just think the imported shoes are poorly fit............by the way, i got a pair of justins for in the shop in B width........well they big in the heel.........i ain't happy with them either.
i was wearing domestic wolverines in the shop..........well they discontinued them in favor of more imports that don't fit.


----------



## northmanlogging (Nov 28, 2014)

so because of this thread... I went to OH... tried on some vibergs, and some wescos... and looked over the Whites... if'n they'd a had a pair of Vibergs in 12.5 x 16" top... I'd be out 500...

Maybe after the first of the year I'll make a final decision... Found out my left foot is a 12.5 ee and my right is an 11/11.5 D...


----------



## treeslayer2003 (Nov 28, 2014)

good grief, thats a big difference.........they sell um like that?


----------



## KYLogger (Nov 28, 2014)

We, always knew NM was a little "different" LOL


----------



## northmanlogging (Nov 28, 2014)

They can special order em in different sizes. I don't think its much of a price difference, less then the full custom thing...

From what I've read its not uncommon to have to different sized feet, however its the gimpy one that is extra big, and its like a full size and a half bigger then the other... largely why I want to have a custom set of boots made...


----------



## treeslayer2003 (Nov 28, 2014)

injury........i thought so. never herd of that much difference with out injury.
really good boots should help.


----------



## northmanlogging (Nov 29, 2014)

smashed everything from the knee down, out side of the foot looked like pulp, and the shin bones where in multiple peices, crushed the heel... I lost count at 20 or so bits

How You zay good times zyeah


----------



## Gologit (Nov 29, 2014)

I'm like NM, my feet are different sizes and one leg is longer than the other. I've had a hip replacement, a knee replacement, back surgery, and the usual assortment of broken arms and legs. No big deal. That's just another one of God's little door prizes for spending your life in the woods.
I was in my 30s before I ever had a custom boot built for me. I wish I hadn't waited that long. Bad fitting boots wear out faster and the doctor told me that they can actually aggravate existing injuries. I believe that. When I had my first pair of boots made a lot of the back and hip pain went away. Not all of it...that's just life...but enough to really notice the difference.
Caution... Once you get a pair of boots that fits like they're supposed to you'll never be happy with anything else. If you figure the cost-per-day-of-use for a good pair of custom boots they're cheaper than cheap boots.


----------



## Joe46 (Nov 29, 2014)

Just curious Bob if you wear a heel lift so both legs are the same length. Wife had lower back problems for a time until a Dr. took some detailed measurements.Prescribed a heel lift and the pain went away.


----------



## treeslayer2003 (Nov 29, 2014)

Gologit said:


> I'm like NM, my feet are different sizes and one leg is longer than the other. I've had a hip replacement, a knee replacement, back surgery, and the usual assortment of broken arms and legs. No big deal. That's just another one of God's little door prizes for spending your life in the woods.
> I was in my 30s before I ever had a custom boot built for me. I wish I hadn't waited that long. Bad fitting boots wear out faster and the doctor told me that they can actually aggravate existing injuries. I believe that. When I had my first pair of boots made a lot of the back and hip pain went away. Not all of it...that's just life...but enough to really notice the difference.
> Caution... Once you get a pair of boots that fits like they're supposed to you'll never be happy with anything else. If you figure the cost-per-day-of-use for a good pair of custom boots they're cheaper than cheap boots.


i can't lock my right knee so i can't stand up quite straight........i used to be a little over 6' lol.
i believe that on the boots.........if they don't fit right i hate um. i just try to get what i had and liked.........if i could do custom i would.........can't really fly out there for boots lol.
it does seem like nothing fits just right any more......IDK if its me changed or boots and clothes ain't cut right. i couldn't really have shrunk much.......i hope.....


----------



## RandyMac (Nov 29, 2014)

I have 3/8" on the left to make up for what went missing at the top of the femur. 
I gave up on calks because they were too tough on the knees, besides my last few years were in the Sierras, lots of rocks.
I do like the "logger" heels, good for going downhill in loose soils.


----------



## RandyMac (Nov 29, 2014)

treeslayer2003 said:


> i can't lock my right knee so i can't stand up quite straight........i used to be a little over 6' lol.
> i believe that on the boots.........if they don't fit right i hate um. i just try to get what i had and liked.........if i could do custom i would.........can't really fly out there for boots lol.
> it does seem like nothing fits just right any more......IDK if its me changed or boots and clothes ain't cut right. i couldn't really have shrunk much.......i hope.....


old ****er...lol


----------



## treeslayer2003 (Nov 29, 2014)

um.....what that makes you? LOL


----------



## Gologit (Nov 29, 2014)

Joe46 said:


> Just curious Bob if you wear a heel lift so both legs are the same length. Wife had lower back problems for a time until a Dr. took some detailed measurements.Prescribed a heel lift and the pain went away.



I don't wear anything. The difference isn't very much and the orthopedist doesn't seem concerned about it. He said that in fifteen or twenty years I might develop another hip problem or maybe not. I'll gamble on that.


----------



## Gologit (Nov 29, 2014)

treeslayer2003 said:


> i can't lock my right knee so i can't stand up quite straight........i used to be a little over 6' lol.
> i believe that on the boots.........if they don't fit right i hate um. i just try to get what i had and liked.........if i could do custom i would.........can't really fly out there for boots lol.
> it does seem like nothing fits just right any more......IDK if its me changed or boots and clothes ain't cut right. i couldn't really have shrunk much.......i hope.....



You don't have to fly out here. Get on Wesco's website and they'll send you a handy-dandy self measuring kit with all the instructions. The paperwork is surprisingly detailed and if you take your time you can get good measurements and good results. Send the numbers back to them and they'll make you a fine pair of boots. I think it's about 100 bucks extra but it's worth it.


----------



## northmanlogging (Nov 29, 2014)

Whites, Viberg, and maybe hoffman? has essentially the same thing, all the same measurments, but different brand... I think Kullians is the only one you need to be in person for?


----------



## wowzers (Dec 10, 2014)

I'll say it again, I have had horrible luck with my whites. I didn't even get a season of hooking out of mine before they were so walked over and the heels blown out. I inquired to Whites and they said they were excessively worn and would only partially cover the rebuild. Got them back and a month or so into them they started coming apart again. I will never buy another pair and made it my mission to let everyone know how bad their product had declined! Not to mention that I went in to Spokane and got measured at the shop and they still stretched out so much I have to wear two pairs of socks.


----------



## madhatte (Dec 10, 2014)

My buddy at Kuliens tells me that part of that problem (you see it all over) is that the leather quality just isn't there, and that it's because nobody lets steers live long enough for the hide to get strong and tough. I guess since they're not considered good for meat, and don't give milk, they kill them young. Apparently you need to let them live to about 10 years or so to get the best quality leather? They have a supply of old stock material that they're still using but once that's gone, who knows. You may not be able to get around that problem if the raw material issues are industry-wide. This is an interesting side effect of large-scale industrial farming efficiency.


----------



## wowzers (Dec 10, 2014)

I have heard something similar along with the way they tan it is more environmentally friendly now and not as good. My Wesco's have been pretty decent so far and way cheaper! Next go around I think I'm switching to the Meindls.


----------



## Eccentric (Dec 10, 2014)

The supply of Old Growth leather is dwindling.

Great. Yet one more thing that isn't like it used to be...


----------



## madhatte (Dec 10, 2014)

wowzers said:


> Next go around I think I'm switching to the Meindls.



I'm wearing a pair of Meindl shoes right now. I like the cork insoles well enough, but they fit a bit narrower than expected. I'll get them a size or two wider the next time.


----------



## KYLogger (Dec 10, 2014)

"Industrial farming" especially concerning cattle ranching/feeding is largely an urban legend. MOST of your "commercial farms" are poultry farms. Family farms vastly outnumber corporate farms in America. Steers commonly reach slaughter weight at about 18 months of age. Most of this has to do with vastly superior genetics and better quality feeds as well as a better understanding of cattle feeding. In the days of old a steer might not reach slaughter weight until two or three years of age. The breeds and feeding had a lot to do with that. Not to my knowledge has the slaughter of ten year old stock (with the exception of slaughter cows and bulls) been commonplace. I know we are a little off topic here but before becoming a logger I was a cowboy............ and this strikes a chord.....

I will get off my soapbox now.


----------



## madhatte (Dec 10, 2014)

It was my understanding from the conversation that I am alluding to that the leather for boots historically was made from the skin of bulls. Alas, this is the pretty much the extent of my knowledge on the subject. I'll tug on my buddy's coat and see if I can't get him to make an account here so that he can answer some questions (hell, maybe drum up some business while he's at it, who knows).


----------



## KYLogger (Dec 10, 2014)

Bull hide is definitely a preferred boot leather used by a lot of high end makers. I would say that the recent skyrocket in cattle prices and the dramatic reduction of the US cattle herd as a whole has a whole lot to do with the reduced availability of quality hides. I have noticed that a large number of boot mfgs. quality of leather has gone down dramatically in the last ten years or so.....Must be a industry wide problem...... Sorry if I offended you madhatte, definitely not my intention.


----------



## madhatte (Dec 10, 2014)

KYLogger said:


> Sorry if I offended you madhatte, definitely not my intention.



You're quite alright! I was just clarifying that I'm no expert, and that what knowledge I do have comes to me second-hand.


----------



## treeslayer2003 (Dec 10, 2014)

does any one use hog hide?


----------



## hseII (Dec 10, 2014)

KYLogger said:


> "Industrial farming" especially concerning cattle ranching/feeding is largely an urban legend. MOST of your "commercial farms" are poultry farms. Family farms vastly outnumber corporate farms in America. Steers commonly reach slaughter weight at about 18 months of age. Most of this has to do with vastly superior genetics and better quality feeds as well as a better understanding of cattle feeding. In the days of old a steer might not reach slaughter weight until two or three years of age. The breeds and feeding had a lot to do with that. Not to my knowledge has the slaughter of ten year old stock (with the exception of slaughter cows and bulls) been commonplace. I know we are a little off topic here but before becoming a logger I was a cowboy............ and this strikes a chord.....
> 
> I will get off my soapbox now.



Well,
Our 2187 lb old bull sold yesterday for $2181.00.
Hopefully he is the donor for my next pair of work boots.

I think he was old enough his sack could be used for boot bottoms.

A Word of caution Moobs, we bought a bull one time that had a broke d**k.

There is no market for broke d**k bulls.

They can't bull, and, well, there's just no 2 ways about it, it's a shitty situation.

So When you buy a bull, verify that his running gear is in working order.

We caught this watching him in the pasture... He didn't even try to be a bull anymore, he didn't act right, and it was finally observed when he relieved himself as to why he wasn't trying to be a bull.
Needless to say, we didn't get any calves from that heard that year.


----------



## KYLogger (Dec 10, 2014)

Hog hide is tough, I have seen gloves made from it. I think that it is too thin for proper work boot leather. It does wear like iron though, just won't hold it's shape.


----------



## KYLogger (Dec 10, 2014)

Gotta love when a slaughter bull brings $1.00...............can't beat that!


----------



## hseII (Dec 10, 2014)

KYLogger said:


> Gotta love when a slaughter bull brings $1.00...............can't beat that!


We are gonna pay for that long term.

The cow business is a cycle just like everything else.
It's high right now, but the bottom will come out of it and start the cycle over.

30 calves and 1 old brood cow that wasn't going to make it they the winter brought $23,8xx in September.

Crazy


----------



## KYLogger (Dec 10, 2014)

The powers that be are saying that the price should level off and stay there for the foreseeable future. It was about time that the cattle market came up. Look at all of the input costs, they have rose higher and higher and cattle prices stayed relatively low. Now in my opinion they are where they should be. But then again I have seen high cattle prices before............. and not.............

Wish our timber markets would do the same. Prices are good, but not where they should be. I hear the old guys saying that prices are about the same now as they were in the 80's and early 90's........ No wonder all the older loggers and retired loggers around here seem pretty well off. LOL. I would be making a killing if diesel was fifty cents a gallon (not to mention all the other stuff)

And now......................back to calk boots...........


----------



## hseII (Dec 10, 2014)

KYLogger said:


> The powers that be are saying that the price should level off and stay there for the foreseeable future. It was about time that the cattle market came up. Look at all of the input costs, they have rose higher and higher and cattle prices stayed relatively low. Now in my opinion they are where they should be. But then again I have seen high cattle prices before............. and not.............
> 
> Wish our timber markets would do the same. Prices are good, but not where they should be. I hear the old guys saying that prices are about the same now as they were in the 80's and early 90's........ No wonder all the older loggers and retired loggers around here seem pretty well off. LOL. I would be making a killing if diesel was fifty cents a gallon (not to mention all the other stuff)
> 
> And now......................back to calk boots...........



Pulpwood prices are the same here as what we were paying for it 18 years ago.

And fuel was under $1.29 a gallon then


----------



## Gologit (Dec 10, 2014)

hseII said:


> Pulpwood prices are the same here as what we were paying for it 18 years ago.
> 
> And fuel was under $1.29 a gallon then




We're _grossing_ quite a bit more money logging than we were in the eighties but we're not really _netting_ any more than we were then. Prices of everything, people, fuel, insurance, machinery, and parts have gone up too. It evens itself out. I'm _getting_ twice as much to log as I did some years ago and things _cost_ twice as much as they did then.
One of our bean counters did a study on it. We're still doing as much work, moving as much wood basically, for the same _percentage _of return as we were in the eighties...or the seventies... or the sixties. The only thing that's different is that the numbers are bigger. A lot bigger. Bigger doesn't mean more.


----------



## hseII (Dec 10, 2014)

Gologit said:


> We're _grossing_ quite a bit more money logging than we were in the eighties but we're not really _netting_ any more than we were then. Prices of everything, people, fuel, insurance, machinery, and parts have gone up too. It evens itself out. I'm _getting_ twice as much to log as I did some years ago and things _cost_ twice as much as they did then.
> One of our bean counters did a study on it. We're still doing as much work, moving as much wood basically, for the same _percentage _of return as we were in the eighties...or the seventies... or the sixties. The only thing that's different is that the numbers are bigger. A lot bigger. Bigger doesn't mean more.


Truth


----------



## 2dogs (Dec 10, 2014)

Steers are sold around 9 months then most go on a 100 day fattening diet at a feed lot. Some are finished on grass and that beef is more expensive. A 10 year old steer would be called an ox if it lived that long and weigh more than a bull. There are very few oxen in the USA.
Hides are worth 10% of the value of a steer. The tannery that tanned leather for Whites and Wesco snd others was owned by my friends. It closed about 10 years ago. They paid an average of 19.00/hr while the Chinese were paying 50 cents an hour. Stillthe main issue was that alnost all the shoe makers are in China so the tanning moved to China to reduce costs. Bull hides are generally used for belts and some saddle parts. To be used for boots bullhide is split. The Chinese are making better leather every day ny the way.
I dont know whose leather the bootmakers are using today but I will see if I xan find out.


----------



## M_S_S (Dec 11, 2014)

I make custom saddles, so I use a lot of leather lol. Boot leather like 2Dogs sez is split cowhide ( bullhide is a sales pitch) Cowhide includes all hides from bovines ( steers, hiefers, cows and bulls) calf hide is different. I buy my skirting leather from a tannery in Penn. There are several tannerys in the U.S. and a lot of tannerys in Mexico tanning U.S. hides. The U.S., Mexico, Brazil, Argentina and Austriala produce the most hides. The Chinese also produce a lot of leather as does India. Not sure where the custom boot makers get their leather but do know most of the custom saddle makers ( the ones that make a good product) use U.S. hides. I just bought a pair of Hathorns (made by White) am sure they are import leather as they are a hundred dollars cheaper than White. Good boots though. ED


----------



## M_S_S (Dec 11, 2014)

I just bought 8 sides of skirting leather (4 cows) cost me just short of 1900 dollars. Takes 2 sides to make a saddle, a good tree costs 450, so a custom saddle has about 1200 dollars worth of materials. Boot leather is expensive too, of course you can get more boots out of a side of leather, but there is a lot of waste. Parts of the hide is to stretchy to make good boots, the belly , flanks and such. the waste will drive up the price of the finished product. ED


----------



## Gologit (Dec 11, 2014)

MSS...that's good information. Thanks.


----------



## hseII (Dec 11, 2014)

I purchased the Red Dawgs last week after all the good talk about them, both on here, and by local Polecats.... 
Baileys sure doesn't get in a hurry on their regular shipping...

Come on 12/16


----------



## KYLogger (Dec 11, 2014)

Really like mine, thinking about the calked version. Really good leather for a production boot. Made in Canada. MSS What kinda saddles are you making??


----------



## M_S_S (Dec 11, 2014)

KYLogger I make mostly saddles for working cowboys. I am a cowboy, born and raised on a cow ranch.I started making saddles about 30 yrs ago. Most of my saddles average about $4000. Cowboys in the Great Basin and northeast California spend more on their saddles than they do on their wives lol. Saddles are a tool they make a living with.
I was raised in the Sacramento Valley, never logged but knew a lot of loggers, my BIL drove logging truck for years. I spent a lot of time chasing cows in Plumas and Tahoe NF. Cut firewood at an early age in fact now I cut firewood for fun lol. I sell a lot of it. All soft woods now, no oak up here lol.. Ed


----------



## KYLogger (Dec 11, 2014)

I was raised a Cracker, made my living chasin' bovids before we moved to Ky and then I found that cowboyin jobs were few and far between. So here I am. We still keep some cattle, but logging is my life now.


----------



## M_S_S (Dec 11, 2014)

I have read about the Crackers. Cowboying is different all over America. Southern Cal is different in some respects than northern Cal. Texas thinks they invented it lol, but there was guys chasing cows in California just as early lol. Texas ropes with short ropes tied to their saddle horn, California, Nevada and Oregon use longer ropes and dally on the horn. Roping a large bovine is kinda like deep sea fishing lol, you play with the critter. Tell me if I am wrong but Crackers use whips to drive cattle. Some of the old fellows I knew as a kid did also. Lol I haven't been a kid for many years now. ED


----------



## 1270d (Dec 11, 2014)

madhatte said:


> I'm wearing a pair of Meindl shoes right now. I like the cork insoles well enough, but they fit a bit narrower than expected. I'll get them a size or two wider the next time.



I normally wear D width. my miendl's are EE and very nice. E would probably work as the laces are pulled pretty close


----------



## KYLogger (Dec 11, 2014)

Yeah, hence the term Cracker  We roped as well, tied off hard and fast with a 35 0r 40 ft twine.


----------



## KYLogger (Dec 11, 2014)

We totally jacked this thread............. LOL


----------



## M_S_S (Dec 11, 2014)

Well boots, leather, cows lol I think they all relate. ED


----------



## KYLogger (Dec 11, 2014)

True and all the custom calk boot companies do make packers, "cowboy boots" and the like sooooo.............


----------



## northmanlogging (Dec 11, 2014)

nah ya totally jacked it, but its ok its still interesting...


----------



## Gologit (Dec 12, 2014)

Yup. The only thing I know about leather is that it covers the cow. This is interesting.


----------



## wowzers (Dec 12, 2014)

Just picked up a pair of meindls. See how they do next week at work.


----------



## treeslayer2003 (Dec 12, 2014)

hey all you skinny foot boys, tell me more about the red dawgs please.........i have trouble getting boots with a narrow enough heel, its coming time soon for a new pair.

Heath i have trouble with baily's slow shipping as well............seems funny to me, Jasha gets chain to me in two days..........


----------



## hseII (Dec 12, 2014)

treeslayer2003 said:


> hey all you skinny foot boys, tell me more about the red dawgs please.........i have trouble getting boots with a narrow enough heel, its coming time soon for a new pair.
> 
> Heath i have trouble with baily's slow shipping as well............seems funny to me, Jasha gets chain to me in two days..........


That's cause Jasha is on top of his Business, and Bailey's will get to it when they get to it.

I live 4 hrs west/ northwest of Savannah: the Atlantic Ocean, and I think Jasha uses planes to get chain here. 

Baileys sends their stuff here by pack mule, the turd smoke express, IYW.


----------



## mdavlee (Dec 13, 2014)

Ask baileys to use USPS priority and you get it in 2-3 days instead of 1.5 weeks.


----------



## hseII (Dec 13, 2014)

mdavlee said:


> Ask baileys to use USPS priority and you get it in 2-3 days instead of 1.5 weeks.


Bailey's is where I buy things I can't find anywhere else: you can bet I will be using the faster shipping if buying from Bailey's again.


----------



## M_S_S (Dec 13, 2014)

I have had pretty good luck getting things fast from Bailey's. Think being in northeast Cal helps, they ship out of their Woodland store. Most things I get UPS, I use the mail if it is cheaper. ED


----------



## treeslayer2003 (Dec 13, 2014)

what i can't under stand is, i thought they bought out comercial cutters in NY.........if so, why wouldn't they ship from there on the east side?


----------



## 2dogs (Jan 17, 2015)

I spoke with my neighbor the leather wholesaler regarding Wesco and Whites. He said they are buy still buying the best leather available, sourced from American steers. Some of those skins are tanned in the USA while others are tanned in China or Europe. The sides are re-tanned in various countries for different reasons. Matt said the leather is always improving BTW. That is good news for those of us who cover our feet in leather for protection and not just fashion.


----------



## 2dogs (Mar 13, 2015)

I didn't realize White's is a Japanese company. ABC Mart, something like that bought them last year through their La Crosse/Danner division.

BTW Wranglerstar has a new video series that tours Nick's factory.


----------



## Humptulips (Mar 15, 2015)

Before all these rubber soled caulks you see now there was two kinds of leather in caulk shoes, sole leather and upper leather. Kuliens still uses sole leather. then there is Kip leather which costs extra at Kuliens. Supposed to be lighter and tougher.
Maybe some of the leather experts can explain that stuff. I am no expert.
I will say this though. It is a sad day when a logger thinks WESCOs are a top of the line shoe. If you ever had the opportunity to wear Highlines or Johnsons you would know of what I speak. My Dad used to say Grays Harbors were a first rate shoe too but that is way before my time. 
On the other hand Currins were like strapping a brick to your foot so I guess it wasn't all roses back then.


----------



## madhatte (Mar 16, 2015)

My buddy who works at Kuliens showed me the sole leather. It's REALLY thick -- like half an inch -- and they press the soles out using molds like razor-sharp cookie cutters. I guess it's imported from Germany. Apparently it only comes from older steers, and it's not common to let the animals live long enough to get that thick a hide any more, hence the scarcity of that material. I can ask for clarification if anybody's interested.


----------



## Skeans (Mar 18, 2015)

Humptulips said:


> Before all these rubber soled caulks you see now there was two kinds of leather in caulk shoes, sole leather and upper leather. Kuliens still uses sole leather. then there is Kip leather which costs extra at Kuliens. Supposed to be lighter and tougher.
> Maybe some of the leather experts can explain that stuff. I am no expert.
> I will say this though. It is a sad day when a logger thinks WESCOs are a top of the line shoe. If you ever had the opportunity to wear Highlines or Johnsons you would know of what I speak. My Dad used to say Grays Harbors were a first rate shoe too but that is way before my time.
> On the other hand Currins were like strapping a brick to your foot so I guess it wasn't all roses back then.


I wear them since they're local for me and the boots are built to my feet. We don't have as many boot makers anymore for the industry either.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 056 kid (Apr 25, 2015)

They've arrived, and they feel awfully big..


----------



## treeslayer2003 (Apr 26, 2015)

056 kid said:


> They've arrived, and they feel awfully big..


where you been?
i went ahead and got the D width carolinas since it will be august before any B widths will be available........they are a bit wide, i guess i'll put more insoles in them.
Hampton shoe is good to deal with and only sells US made boots. i might get two pair in august just so this don't happen again.


----------



## 056 kid (Apr 26, 2015)

Ona a hiatus I guess. I already broke a lace and the wrench. I'm not sure what to think. I'd post some pictures if I knew how to. Well, I think I know how to, I just can't her the pictures small enough..


----------



## 056 kid (Apr 26, 2015)




----------



## 056 kid (Apr 26, 2015)




----------



## treeslayer2003 (Apr 26, 2015)

that kinda sucs considering what you paid........not sure i'd like that tall of a boot.


----------



## 056 kid (Apr 26, 2015)

They come up a bit over half way up my shins. The uppers are fine, from the instep forward feels lose. Might be sending them back. I'm going to call them tomorrow.


----------



## treeslayer2003 (Apr 26, 2015)

always loose in the heel and ankle for me.
i don't blame you, for that much money they should fit right. boots aggravate the chit outta me, if their not snug and support my ankles they turn over.......that kinda hurts. every body don't have big wide feet.
Ted what are ya cutting now?


----------



## SliverPicker (Apr 26, 2015)

treeslayer2003 said:


> always loose in the heel and ankle for me.
> every body don't have big wide feet.



Amen brother!


----------



## treeslayer2003 (Apr 26, 2015)

hey silver, come august i am gonna order up two pair of the B width. D is really to wide........i am amazed more don't offer a narrow boot.....


----------



## 2dogs (Apr 26, 2015)

Ted! Nice to hear from you dude! You've missed roll call a few times now. I always enjoy your posts.


----------



## SliverPicker (Apr 26, 2015)

I need boots now too. I wore my D width boots again on Friday. Agony by 2pm. Just too much slop. I have to wear two pairs of sock, but then my feet are both too hot and it makes the boots too short in length. Can't win that one. The Carolinas aren't available until August? Ouch.


----------



## treeslayer2003 (Apr 26, 2015)

SliverPicker said:


> I need boots now too. I wore my D width boots again on Friday. Agony by 2pm. Just too much slop. I have to wear two pairs of sock, but then my feet are both too hot and it makes the boots too short in length. Can't win that one. The Carolinas aren't available until August? Ouch.


i'm gonna try to stack in another pair of insoles to try and lift my foot up tighter in the boot, my old ones the stitching broke in the back around the heel so they are about toast.
yup, middle of august, i looked every where and called to check stock every where i could think of........Hampton did have a pair of steel toe in 11B, almost wish i tried them. i think she said they a 10-1/2B too if you think they would fit. i am exactly 10-15/16 so can't go shorter.


----------



## SliverPicker (Apr 26, 2015)

10 1/2 B is my size. I wish I could find a narrow boot with a low heel. That Wesco spring heel looks right up my alley.


----------



## SliverPicker (Apr 26, 2015)

Maybe here?:

http://www.redwingshoes.com/footwear/filter-Logger/width-B


----------



## treeslayer2003 (Apr 26, 2015)

hmm, i always thought red wings were heavy and clunky but they don't look to bad.........the low heel is almost slick though.....


----------



## nk14zp (Apr 26, 2015)

TS you got small feet. try finding boots in size 15.


----------



## treeslayer2003 (Apr 26, 2015)

nk14zp said:


> TS you got small feet. try finding boots in size 15.


oh they had plenty of them lol.
by the way..........glad you did this so i ain't got to.


----------



## SliverPicker (Apr 27, 2015)

Maybe if you looked in the canoe and kayak section at Cabela's you have better luck with the those size 15s?


----------



## 1270d (Apr 27, 2015)

Easy on to the big footed ones... 13 and 14 are hard to find as well.


----------



## SliverPicker (Apr 27, 2015)

I'm just a hair shy of 6'2". My feet could have gone either way. I'm glad they're 10 1/2 and not 13. I have enough trouble fitting them under the dash of the crummy as it is.


----------



## Joe46 (Apr 28, 2015)

Just a little trivia. Bob Lanier-ex pro basketball player wore size 22's!


----------



## treeslayer2003 (Apr 30, 2015)

well.....the insoles took out the slop.......now i have a raw spot on both feet right on top of the tendon that runs down the top of the foot..........dammit


----------

