# Belray H1R



## Joe Kidd (Sep 28, 2012)

I'm hearing more and more about Belray H1R oil, but I've not heard too much about comparisons to other syn oils that have been used in the same equipment. Just curious as I'm not familiar with Belrays oils.


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## Team FAST (Sep 28, 2012)

Joe Kidd said:


> I'm hearing more and more about Belray H1R oil, but I've not heard too much about comparisons to other syn oils that have been used in the same equipment. Just curious as I'm not familiar with Belrays oils.



I used to run it when I raced karts and had no issues with it. I eventually switched to Redline synthetic. I run that now exclusively....saws, trimmers, margarita blenders.


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## Tzed250 (Sep 28, 2012)

I always had good results with Bel-Ray when I ran it in my motorcycles, both two and four stroke.


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## A.E. Metal Werx (Sep 28, 2012)

I switched from running klotz to redline to now the h1r. I'm %100 sold on the h1r. Reminds me of the high $ stihl oil. Very little to none deposits and appears to have a file film of oil where needed. Sure doesn't smell as good as the klotz but ill take performance and reliability over that any day.


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## mdavlee (Sep 28, 2012)

Way cleaner burning than klotz and seems to be lubing the bottom end plenty good. It's what I use now and I've tried 5 bike oils and 4 stihl/husky/echo mixes.


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## Justsaws (Sep 28, 2012)

$20.00 a quart? :msp_ohmy:


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## KenJax Tree (Sep 28, 2012)

I used Amsoil Saber for a few year, a friend gave me 2 quarts of Belray H1R so im using it now and my saws seem to like it so far, haven't decided to keep using it after its gone or go back to Amsoil.


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## JRHAWK9 (Sep 28, 2012)

Justsaws said:


> $20.00 a quart? :msp_ohmy:



I paid $68 shipped for a 4L bottle (~4.25Qt) of H1R on Amazon.....


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## mdavlee (Sep 28, 2012)

It is cheaper than stihl ultra for me locally.


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## ncfarmboy (Sep 29, 2012)

I'm switching to Belray as soon as I use up Husky XP(semi-synthetic) I have now. Some reading for those interested. This article and other users sold me on it. Some of the better builders use it.
The R/C Aircraft Proving Grounds - 2 Cycle Oil Test Summary
Shep


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## Anthony_Va. (Sep 29, 2012)

It's really clean burning. I've burned a few gallons through my XPW so far and it's so clean it looks new (exhaust port). I coud'nt say the same after a few gallons of Klotz Supertechniplate. The cylinder and piston were completely covered with carbon buildup when it was taken apart for porting. Klotz is good protecting oil but it just burns too dirty for my taste.


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## Joe Kidd (Sep 29, 2012)

*Belray MC-1?*

How does the MC-1 compare? I noticed it's recommended for non-power valve 2-stroke engines.


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## superwd6 (Sep 29, 2012)

Had an 82 Yamaha ZY125 years ago that I let a friend ride for about 20 minutes. We stopped remembered there was NO coolant in it. We let the bike cool, filled with water and rode the whole day. Pullit apart to find No scuffing at all in the barrel or piston. Cast iron liner in that bike and Used MC1+ 55-1 ratio. I stopped using it later when H1R came out as to much money for me. Now, don't laugh, I'm using Shell Advance Ultra snowmobile oil as Shell recommends for 575xp. 4 litres sitting there after a crappy winter drove me to it. :msp_biggrin:


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## ford832 (Sep 29, 2012)

MC1 is a little dirtier than H1r.I've used H1r in my bikes and is was ok but I've found Motul 800 runs cleaner and my cranks seem to last forever(2t bikes anyway)I've run Motul for about the past 10 yrs now.To date,I've found nothing superior.
Btw,Shell Ultra Advance is a fantastic snowmobile oil.


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## superwd6 (Sep 29, 2012)

ford832 said:


> MC1 is a little dirtier than H1r.I've used H1r in my bikes and is was ok but I've found Motul 800 runs cleaner and my cranks seem to last forever(2t bikes anyway)I've run Motul for about the past 10 yrs now.To date,I've found nothing superior.
> Btw,Shell Ultra Advance is a fantastic snowmobile oil.



100 hp sled engine loves it so I thought why not? saws are stock not race models:wink2:It cleaned most carbon off the 137 piston before feeding it to the 288xp & 576xp AT. And now the Redmax G5300:msp_wub:


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## blsnelling (Sep 29, 2012)

I just finished up a quart of Motul 800 2T. Before that was Belray H1R, and before that was Maxima K2. I would highly recommend all three of these oils. Simply get the one that's most convenient for you. All three are full synthetic ester based oils. You can't get any better than that for our application.


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## tdi-rick (Sep 30, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I just finished up a quart of Motul 800 2T. Before that was Belray H1R, and before that was Maxima K2. I would highly recommend all three of these oils. Simply get the one that's most convenient for you. All three are full synthetic ester based oils. You can't get any better than that for our application.




And 800 2T smells like bananas


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## KenJax Tree (Sep 30, 2012)

I like H1R but the 372 didn't like 32:1 it and smoked and its tuned at 13800 with a muff mod so its not real rich, but the other saws seemed ok so i just use it at 40:1 now.


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## Joe Kidd (Oct 5, 2012)

After a little research I ordered some 800 2T to give it a shot. BTW I opened a bottle of Stihl Ultra and it smelled like piss and was thin as water. I bet it does stink runnin' it! I might give the H1R a try next. Hey, I'm bored! :msp_ohmy:


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## redoakneck (Oct 5, 2012)

How much does the motul cost??? These are better than stihl ultra and amsoil saber???


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## Joe Kidd (Oct 5, 2012)

redoakneck said:


> How much does the motul cost??? These are better than stihl ultra and amsoil saber???



About $17 a liter. Who knows, but has been a top notch performer in the MX and RC world for lots of years. We'll see...


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## mdavlee (Oct 5, 2012)

The last ultra I bought was $11 for a six pack of 1 gallon. A $17 liter will make 10 gallons of mix.


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## redoakneck (Oct 5, 2012)

Thanks joekid, some of these high end cycle shops like to mark stuff up, now at least I have a number.


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## Oddvaark (Oct 14, 2012)

ncfarmboy said:


> I'm switching to Belray as soon as I use up Husky XP(semi-synthetic) I have now. Some reading for those interested. This article and other users sold me on it. Some of the better builders use it.
> The R/C Aircraft Proving Grounds - 2 Cycle Oil Test Summary
> Shep



WOW. Talk about conclusive evidence . Thank you ncfarmboy


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## redoakneck (Oct 24, 2012)

I see motul 800 comes in two flavors, factory at 22 bucks/ quart and racing at 20 bucks/qt. I ordered the factory flavor. Is there much difference???


Guy at the cycle shop said motul makes great oils.


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## Ironhand (Oct 24, 2012)

redoakneck said:


> I see motul 800 comes in two flavors, factory at 22 bucks/ quart and racing at 20 bucks/qt. I ordered the factory flavor. Is there much difference???
> 
> 
> Guy at the cycle shop said motul makes great oils.



I believe that the 800 factory/racing is just older vs new labeling. Same excellent oil.


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## Miles86 (Oct 24, 2012)

Ironhand said:


> I believe that the 800 factory/racing is just older vs new labeling. Same excellent oil.



Hi-
I found at my local shop and "off road" which is SAE 40 visc, perfect for our saws,
and a "road race" SAE 50 visc. so that is a very thick oil. The "road race" is a double ester which I have no idea what that means but it sounds good.

I stick with Motorex Racing GP - SAE 30 W **castor with detergents** and JASO-FD rated. (this is the same as Motorex Kart Lube). No deposits at all, surprising since it is castor base.

Belray H1R is JASO FD .

Belray Marine Racing is JASO FD (and TCW3 -this is just for extra corrosion protection-otherwise is is a high temp racing oil). I like this oil a lot !


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## Joe Kidd (Oct 24, 2012)

redoakneck said:


> I see motul 800 comes in two flavors, factory at 22 bucks/ quart and racing at 20 bucks/qt. I ordered the factory flavor. Is there much difference???
> 
> 
> Guy at the cycle shop said motul makes great oils.



I'm using the "factory line off-road" @3oz/gal. It's [email protected]:1. I'm not sure about the "racing" variant.


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## Officer's Match (Oct 24, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I just finished up a quart of Motul 800 2T. Before that was Belray H1R, and before that was Maxima K2. I would highly recommend all three of these oils. Simply get the one that's most convenient for you. All three are full synthetic ester based oils. You can't get any better than that for our application.



I think you were still using the Maxima K2 when I bought my M-Tronic from you, and I loved its smell. I have been a big fan of Redline, but my local cycle stores have stopped carrying it. I have used H1R for the last 6-8 gallons at 40:1. I have also had good luck with Echo's synthetic (forget the designation, but "D" rated).


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## Stihl-Pioneer (Oct 24, 2012)

I ordered three small bottles of H1R last week and they just came in today. I haven't mixed any yet to try it. Probably next week.


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## Iron Head (Oct 25, 2012)

For those who are using Belray H1R.
What ratio runs best you you?


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## Stihl-Pioneer (Oct 25, 2012)

Iron Head said:


> For those who are using Belray H1R.
> What ratio runs best you you?



I'm going to use 45:1 .


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## mdavlee (Oct 25, 2012)

I used some of the motul 710 and it was a lot like the bel ray in lack of deposits. I mixed up 5 gallons of it and ran it through the 660 and 395 in a short time. Neither had any build up at all. The klotz left a film on the piston top in less than 5 gallons. Bel ray has left clean insides in the other saws that have 10 gallons or so through them.


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## RonL (Nov 3, 2012)

The RC tests indicated that they used H1R at 32:1 ratio. They indicated that initially it ran hot until they enriched the air fuel ratio. They stated that they used 15% more fuel mix. They speculated that H1R did not burn and did not contribute to the combustion. If that is true what happens to the oil?

For those using H1R, what ratios are you using? Do you have to substantially enrich your carbs? Are you getting more power?

RonL


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## borat (Nov 3, 2012)

RonL said:


> The RC tests indicated that they used H1R at 32:1 ratio. They indicated that initially it ran hot until they enriched the air fuel ratio. They stated that they used 15% more fuel mix. They speculated that H1R did not burn and did not contribute to the combustion. If that is true what happens to the oil?
> 
> For those using H1R, what ratios are you using? Do you have to substantially enrich your carbs? Are you getting more power?
> 
> RonL



Some oil will be burnt. There's no way around it. Some will exit the exhaust as soot and/or oil mixed with carbon black.


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## RonL (Nov 3, 2012)

I just spent a month or two studying 2t oil. There is a ton of information on various sites. There is two tons of BS also. Sometimes you have to sift through the " my brother's wife's third cousin once removed once drove by an oil refinery on the Jersey Pike and he uses........" threads to get to the pearls of wisdom.

"My brain is full teacher."

For some reason that little bit from that test stuck with me. I need to clarify that in my mind.

RonL


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## mdavlee (Nov 3, 2012)

I did have to retune all of my saws richer to get them back down to a good rpm when I switched to belray. I don't know why it does that but is leaves a great film on the piston/cylinder and crank if you take one apart to check it out.


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## RonL (Nov 3, 2012)

Thanks for the replies.

I'm doing my due diligence to find what current technology suits my purposes. I'm testing Belray and Motul. When i settle on one I'll get enough supply to last a few years and tune all my saws to that mixture.

RonL


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## blsnelling (Nov 3, 2012)

I recommend Motul 800 2T, Maxima K2, or Belray H1-R. I don't know if it's an Ester base oil or not, but Bailey's WoodlandPro full-synthetic is great oil as well.


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## Mastermind (Nov 3, 2012)

I've been using H1R @ 32:1 for awhile now. I like it like that just fine. The hunt for the "perfect" oil is over for me. :msp_smile:


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## blsnelling (Nov 3, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I've been using H1R @ 32:1 for awhile now. I like it like that just fine. The hunt for the "perfect" oil is over for me. :msp_smile:



I sold locally here, so I think that's what I'm going to settle on.


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## Joe Kidd (Nov 3, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I recommend Motul 800 2T, Maxima K2, or Belray H1-R.



Yep. I lot of my research and oil forums would certainly concur. I'm using the Motul 800 2T now, and I've got a H1R on the shelve to try next.


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## mdavlee (Nov 3, 2012)

Bel ray and Motul 710 is sold at the suzuki shop by me so those are the 2 I'll use. I did like the motul as it didn't change the tune when I ran it.


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## RonL (Nov 3, 2012)

From what I can see there are currently 2 Motul 800T formulas. One is off road that is recommended at 50:1 and one is road race that is recommended at 25:1 to 33:1. I have 4 liters of the off road on the way. I'm also going to try the road race and the 710. I believe that I can get the H1R locally. 

RonL


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## mdavlee (Nov 3, 2012)

The 710 is what I tried and was good stuff and no horrible smell like some oils. It left a real nice film on the piston of the 660 I used it in. I mixed 5 gallons up and ran it and it showed no build up on the piston crown or exhaust port.


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## Joe Kidd (Nov 3, 2012)

RonL said:


> From what I can see there are currently 2 Motul 800T formulas. One is off road that is recommended at 50:1 and one is road race that is recommended at 25:1 to 33:1. I have 4 liters of the off road on the way. I'm also going to try the road race and the 710. I believe that I can get the H1R locally.
> 
> RonL



I use the Off Road variant @42-ish:1


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## Raker (Nov 3, 2012)

*Ultra*

It seems most everyone on this site has historically had great things to say about Stihl Ultra so I switched to it from the Husky XP oil. However, recently you legends have been recommending these other oils (Belray, etc). Are you using them because they can be purchased at better prices? If they were the same price as Ultra would you still be buying them or sticking with Ultra?


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## mtrees (Nov 3, 2012)

Great post I would like to know as well?


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## mdavlee (Nov 3, 2012)

Raker said:


> It seems most everyone on this site has historically had great things to say about Stihl Ultra so I switched to it from the Husky XP oil. However, recently you legends have been recommending these other oils (Belray, etc). Are you using them because they can be purchased at better prices? If they were the same price as Ultra would you still be buying them or sticking with Ultra?



Ultra is good oil and I had no problems with the saw. The smell gives me a head ache if there's not a breeze. Earlier this year the dealers went up when ultra went to a gray bottle and it's more expensive than belray and motul per gallon. I have to measure the oil with a ratio rite but that's a minor inconvenience for about a $.75 a gallon savings for mix.


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## Raker (Nov 3, 2012)

mdavlee said:


> Ultra is good oil and I had no problems with the saw. The smell gives me a head ache if there's not a breeze. Earlier this year the dealers went up when ultra went to a gray bottle and it's more expensive than belray and motul per gallon. I have to measure the oil with a ratio rite but that's a minor inconvenience for about a $.75 a gallon savings for mix.



I bought a ratio rite about a month ago with the intention of buying a gallon of Ultra. Well when I saw the price of that baby I went with the six pack of the lil guys.


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## mdavlee (Nov 3, 2012)

You might want to check out the woodland pro if you make an order from baileys in the bottle or a 5 gallon pail if you could make use of that much mix.


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## RonL (Nov 3, 2012)

I am certainly no legend but the more I researched 2t oil the more it pointed me towards full synthetic. I switched to Stihl full synthetic. Seems like the dealers only sold it in the small 6 packs. For homeowners that only mixed a small amount per year it was probably very convenient. I'm sure the dealers would order large jugs if pressed.

Full synthetics, along with the additive package, can be formulated to meet exact needs. Viscosity, flash point, and all the other variables can be tailored to specific purposes.

If you look at 2cycle users that run their machines to the max, and then break them down, you see certain trends and effects. They start pointing you in certain directions.

Oil threads start taking on an almost religious fervor at times. I don't want to become involved in that. I'm just looking for what serves me best for my purposes.

EPA rules change. The basic laws of physics and chemistry don't.

If the EPA and tree huggers had their way we would only cut wood that fell to earth by forces of nature. We would be using chainsaws that ran on methane and were connected directly to the rear end of a cow.

RonL


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## Mastermind (Nov 3, 2012)

RonL said:


> I am certainly no legend but the more I researched 2t oil the more it pointed me towards full synthetic. I switched to Stihl full synthetic. Seems like the dealers only sold it in the small 6 packs. For homeowners that only mixed a small amount per year it was probably very convenient. I'm sure the dealers would order large jugs if pressed.
> 
> Full synthetics, along with the additive package, can be formulated to meet exact needs. Viscosity, flash point, and all the other variables can be tailored to specific purposes.
> 
> ...



A *legend*ary post.


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## Mastermind (Nov 3, 2012)

The main reason i started using H1R was that RC compro that someone linked to earlier in this thread. When I read that I was sold. Another reason is that I can order it and have it delivered to my front porch. I live in the damn sticks and everywhere is a hell of a drive......my time is worth too much to me to waste it in a stealership somewhere.


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## Anthony_Va. (Nov 3, 2012)

Raker said:


> It seems most everyone on this site has historically had great things to say about Stihl Ultra so I switched to it from the Husky XP oil. However, recently you legends have been recommending these other oils (Belray, etc). Are you using them because they can be purchased at better prices? If they were the same price as Ultra would you still be buying them or sticking with Ultra?



I would still use Belray. I just like the way it burns so clean and it seems to do it's job well. It's job being, protecting my engine.  Take that for whats it's worth, I'm no legend either, not even in my own mind.


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## Tzed250 (Nov 3, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> The main reason i started using H1R was that RC compro that someone linked to earlier in this thread. When I read that I was sold. Another reason is that I can order it and have it delivered to my front porch. I live in the damn sticks and everywhere is a hell of a drive......my time is worth too much to me to waste it in a stealership somewhere.



What if a six-pack of Ultra came with a pie?


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## Mastermind (Nov 3, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> What if a six-pack of Ultra came with a pie?



Well John that would depend on the kind of pie. :msp_wink:




Who am i trying to kid here. I would go for the 6 pack and the pie.


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## rsbhunter (Nov 3, 2012)

*Switching*

Well, the reason i read this forum is because the majority here have forgotten more, than i will learn about saws, and their maintenance and repair......i now have, some Stihl ultra HD, some Klotz Super Techniplate, and just tonight ordered 3 bottles of the Belray HR1 roadrace oil.....yeah, i have some $$$ tied up in oils, but i figure it this way...i'm not a professional arborist, but i have alot of $$$ tied up in my saws (2 makita 6401, one crapsman,alot to me), and i compare oil to a blood transfusion, if i had the choice, i want the best! I run syn in my diesel, gasser, rear ends, trans, etc. I read the RC site test, and like some others, i'll go with what they found to be the best. As others have said, the saws will run on dino, and for a long time at that...but , if something is made better, sometimes it's worth upgrading to....rsbhunter


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## Tzed250 (Nov 3, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Well John that would depend on the kind of pie. :msp_wink:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



My mom made one heckuva Chess pie. I figure if the ultra came with one of those you would be all over it.


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## rsbhunter (Nov 4, 2012)

*Hr1*

I just ordered some from a place called Powersports Superstore for $7+change shipping to new mexico was 8.89 for 4 bottles that was for the 12.3 oz bottle...but it beat the 20.00 amazone price ...with shipping!!! What ratio's are you guys running the HR1 at? I have a new 6401 and figured 40:1, or should i go 35:1 or even 32:1???? Thanks for any help, hope the price i paid is decent? rsbhunter


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## Mastermind (Nov 4, 2012)

rsbhunter said:


> I just ordered some from a place called Powersports Superstore for $7+change shipping to new mexico was 8.89 for 4 bottles that was for the 12.3 oz bottle...but it beat the 20.00 amazone price ...with shipping!!! What ratio's are you guys running the HR1 at? I have a new 6401 and figured 40:1, or should i go 35:1 or even 32:1???? Thanks for any help, hope the price i paid is decent? rsbhunter



I use 32:1 but most of my saws are ported.


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## Stihl-Pioneer (Nov 4, 2012)

rsbhunter said:


> What ratio's are you guys running the HR1 at? I have a new 6401 and figured 40:1, or should i go 35:1 or even 32:1????



I'm using 45:1


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## A.E. Metal Werx (Nov 4, 2012)

36:1, most most my saws are ported also.


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## Flatie (Nov 4, 2012)

Im currently using H1R at 40:1. 
Ive read that sometimes you need to adjust your mixture with ester syns, so my question is will an autotune compensate for that change of oil ratio? My thoughts are it does as it does for porting,but does anyone know for sure?
In which case what oil ratio are autotuned saws recommended to run at? :msp_smile:


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## Mastermind (Nov 4, 2012)

Flatie said:


> Im currently using H1R at 40:1.
> Ive read that sometimes you need to adjust your mixture with ester syns, so my question is will an autotune compensate for that change of oil ratio? My thoughts are it does as it does for porting,but does anyone know for sure?
> In which case what oil ratio are autotuned saws recommended to run at? :msp_smile:



It seems to do fine in an autotune.....


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## gcdible1 (Nov 4, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> The main reason i started using H1R was that RC compro that someone linked to earlier in this thread. When I read that I was sold. Another reason is that I can order it and have it delivered to my front porch. I live in the damn sticks and everywhere is a hell of a drive......my time is worth too much to me to waste it in a stealership somewhere.



Is there a specific flavor of H1R that you use racing, etc in your stuff? Also where ya ordering it from? You can pm me if needed. Thx.


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## mdavlee (Nov 4, 2012)

I do 3 oz per gallon. I think that's around 43:1 and there's a real nice film on the piston. 32:1 is a nice even 4 oz per gallon also.


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## walexa07 (Nov 4, 2012)

I've been a long time believer in synthetics. But........there's also a RC plane engine study where Pennzoil air cooled non-synthetic came out on top when compared to some synthetics: 

http://www.powerchutes.com/oil.pdf

What I found interesting is that it kept the ring lands the cleanest of the bunch. I'm not an amsoil believer, but I've also read of guys starting to lose power after so many gallons of amsoil mixed at a normal ratio (not 100:0), so they switched to the Pennzoil air cooled and after a few gallons were back to doing great. I think the indication that a problem is building is rpm drop at full speed, and the Pennzoil restored full or near full rpm - which was several hundred.

Anyway, I know there are lots of variables, and ways to pick the test I posted apart - but it does appear that the Pennzoil air cooled is some pretty good stuff. I think it is discontinued, but I've found it in several Advance Auto's. If it has "outdoor" and air cooled on the bottle, it is a different formulation that the true "air-cooled".

Waylan


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## w8ye (Nov 4, 2012)

I've been using Pennzoil Air cooled for about 6 years. I read the article linked in the previous post. The is an Advance Auto just up the road from my house so I bought enough to last me the next several years. I have not had any trouble with it at 32:1.

Back in the 80's there was a Discount store going out of business with Lawnboy half off and I bought enough to last me a few years. I didn't have any trouble with it either but people proclaim it to make carbon.

I do believe the Pennzoil is cleaner?

I've thought about changing to a full synthetic like H1R but need tio use up my Pennzoil first.


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## RonL (Nov 10, 2012)

My apologies for opening up this thread again.

If you have an aversion to oil threads please ignore this.

I still cannot get my head around the RC study. It stated that they used H1R at 32:1 ratio and used 15% more fuel mix. They postulated that the oil did not contribute to the combustion process. What happened to the oil? I went back and read a number of posts on H1R. They all stated that they had to increase the jetting. They did not say anything about oil spooge coming out of the muffler. Again, what happened to the oil? Basic law of physics: energy and matter can neither be created or destroyed. Did the oil change states? Did it go out the muffler as vapor?

My reason for researching oil is that I wanted to use the most current technology that would fit my purposes. My matrix of cause and effect was that i wanted an oil and ratio that would give me increased power and chainsaw life at relatively reasonable increase in cost. If H1R requires an increase in fuel mix use and costs more then it pushes it out of consideration. There are oils that apparently add to the combustion process and burn cleanly.

H1R maybe good for racing, where winning at any cost is the goal, but I think it may be out of consideration for my purposes.

RonL


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## imagineero (Nov 10, 2012)

Raker said:


> It seems most everyone on this site has historically had great things to say about Stihl Ultra so I switched to it from the Husky XP oil. However, recently you legends have been recommending these other oils (Belray, etc). Are you using them because they can be purchased at better prices? If they were the same price as Ultra would you still be buying them or sticking with Ultra?



There are a few threads out there on this oil, so do some searching for details. I jumped on the bandwagon when it first came out, and I loved it. Over time I started getting symptoms from being exposed to it. Headaches. Sinus problems. Sensitive eyes. It got worse, and more frequent. FWIW, I run a saw all day every day. I'm mostly up a tree running a climbing saw where I'm not exposed much to fumes, but it got to me just the same. The guys on the ground had a real hard time, and when on the ground myself it would take me 2 or 3 days to get over it. Most guys who use the stihl ultra daily and for extended periods have had some kind of reaction to it. It doesn't seem to happen straight away and some guys get it worse than others, but we all seem to get it in the end.

I care about my health and the health of my workers way more than I care about my saws. We trialed a bunch of oils, and the Hr1 came out on top for worker friendliness. We've been running it for about a year now, and nothing bad to report. Saws are all in good shape too. It costs about the same, or a little more than stihl ultra here in aus. Cost isn't a factor for me. If there was an oil that was better for myself and my workers, I'd pay extra for it. 

Shaun


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## Stihlman441 (Nov 10, 2012)

Well said Shaun
I can add to this a little,i use Mobil 1 2T fully synthetic at 40 to 45 :1 and found it a pleasure to use day in day out blocking (which is probably the worst for fumes).
Another thing people need to think about health wise is the saws they are using,the newer stratto and Auto tune saws are a manger step forward in this area,i mainly use ported 441Cs for blocking and find them very user friendly.:msp_thumbup:


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## mdavlee (Nov 10, 2012)

The saws I've torn down after running h1r were wet with oil on the inside of the cylinder and crankcase. No wet residue in the muffler to note. It does take a little more fuel to run it but for the no headache and great lube properties I'll run it until something is better.


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## komatsuvarna (Nov 10, 2012)

mdavlee said:


> The saws I've torn down after running h1r were wet with oil on the inside of the cylinder and crankcase. No wet residue in the muffler to note. It does take a little more fuel to run it but for the* no headache and great lube properties I'll run it until something is better*.



Yup!


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## RonL (Nov 10, 2012)

I'm going to try a small quantity of H1R just so that I can say in my own mind that I tested it. I have 4 liters of Motul 8002T. I'm also trying Motul 710 and Maxima K2.
That should bring me to the point where I have to clear a large tract. When I decide on a particular oil I'm going to tune all my saws for it and go to town.

By the way, I like the idea that you can get Maxima K2 in a five gallon jug. And they have a nice pump that fits on the jug. If I figure out the shelf life is long enough I may just get a five gallon jug, tune all my saws for it, and just go to town until it runs out.

RonL


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## mdavlee (Nov 10, 2012)

I liked the motul 710 also. I ran 5 gallons of gas mixed with it and it was pleasant to use with no headache and lubed nicely. I want to say it was $7 for enough to mix 5 gallons up.


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## rsbhunter (Nov 10, 2012)

*Belray HR1*

I had some Motul 800 on order the same night i ordered the Belray HR1. I cancelled the Motul, and ordered the Belray. I was tuning the saws with some of the Klotz SuperTechniplate and i noticed a slight headache, didn't even think about it being caused by the oil...glad i read these forums....i'll mix up some of the Belray at 36:1 amd see if theres a change....i have 3 qts of the Klotz and a 5 pack of the Stihl Ultra HP oil...i'll use it when i'm in the open cutting.....or mix 80% Belray, and 20% of one of the others....rsbhunter


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## imagineero (Nov 10, 2012)

Regarding "where does it go?", ill take a guess. I think the statement "does not contribute to combustion" is probably misleading. It obviously burns; it's oil. The fact that it leaves no deposits means its leaving the saw. I'm guessing something closer to the truth would be "it contributes less energy during combustion than the same amount of straight fuel would".

I ought to mention that I do still get a small amount of sinus troubles with the h1r, but I have very sensitive sinuses. Lots of things set me off, I can't use some types of shampoos, soaps and deoderisers. I can't use fly spray, or many kinds of laundry powders. For the other guys on the crew though, they get no reaction from the h1r.

Plus 1 on what Stihlman says too. Breathing in unburnt fuel vapors obviously isn't great for your health. Modern saws are better for you if you have high exposure to saws.

Shaun


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## RonL (Nov 10, 2012)

Shaun

Thanks. I just can't wrap my head around the fact that they used 15% more fuel to generate the same work output. Kind of counterproductive when the purpose is to put as much wood on the ground as possible.

RonL


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## mdavlee (Nov 10, 2012)

The 15% more fuel sounds like a lot but it would be maybe what 2 minutes shorter on a tank in a 90 cc saw? I know a 395 will go through a tank of mix in around 15 minutes of blocking big wood cut after cut with a 42" strapped on it.


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## imagineero (Nov 10, 2012)

I don't follow that logic. If the same amount of work got done, then that's just as productive. Assuming there was an actual 15% increase in fuel usage for an identical output, that's stills fairly small increase in cost for the work. 15% more fuel would add less than half a percent to the cost if getting the job done for me, way down lower than the cost of labour, saws, insurance etc. We go through quite a lot of fuel, but 15% extra would be less than the cost of a single sick day.


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## Mastermind (Nov 11, 2012)

You guys think too much.


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## Joe Kidd (Nov 11, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> You guys think too much.



Motul 800 2T smells like bananas! :msp_wink:


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## Mastermind (Nov 11, 2012)

Joe Kidd said:


> Motul 800 2T smells like bananas! :msp_wink:



So now you're profiling.


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## Gologit (Nov 11, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> You guys think too much.



_Somebody_ has to.


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## sachsmo (Nov 11, 2012)

Midgets hands smell like cabbage.


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## Mastermind (Nov 11, 2012)

sachsmo said:


> Midgets hands smell like cabbage.



Googled that one and found this.....

1. If you hit a midget with a stick, he turns into 40 gold coins.

2. If you throw a midget into a tub of hot water, he makes Sleepytime tea!

3. 7 midgets thrown into a sausage machine makes 2 pounds of Kielbasa.

4. it takes 2 midgets to make one order of Midget McNuggets.

5. They have little hands.....and little eyes....they go around telling....little lies.......

6. If you lose a fight to a midget, you become one.

7. If you use a net and capture a few midgets and keep them as pets and train them to follow instructions, you will sell your dog

8. Little people (midgets if you will), need a little passport to go to Little Italy....

9. A studio apartment is a mansion to a midget.

10. A Ford fiesta is a limo to a midget.

11. A nerd candy is a jaw breaker to a midget.

12. A bathtub is an olympic sized pool to a midget.

13. small hands, smell like cabbage

14. Midgets must never cry. If they do their eyes fall out.

15. If you add water to a midget, they make their own gravy..

16. Midgets are scared to eat ##### because one wrong move and their back in the womb.

17. A midget looses no weight at the time of death. Proof that midgets have no soul?

18. the chinese ones are more rare and cost more.

19. If you hit a midget in the groin it makes a noise that only dogs and little children can hear

20. During WWII, Nazis kidnapped 100 midgets to polish the insides of shell casings.

21. "Midgets are the cause of all wars" - Mel Gibson


22. Midgets are reportedly the ONE and ONLY thing that Chuck Norris is afraid of.

23. Midgets explode in a violent chemical reaction when exposed to common sea salt.

24. Midgets have hollow places in their bodies where they hide very small weapons, and for that reason are often used for industrial espionage.


25. Midget limbs fall off easily and regenerate as a self defense mechanism.

26. Although midgets shed their skin every 22 months, they DO NOT grow.

27. Ivory Soap floats in water, so do midgets, but they can't at the same time.


28. Midgets do not dream.

29. From 1691 to 1695, midgets were legal tender in Austria.

30. Topps and Fleer used to include them with baseball cards during the bubble gum shortages of WW II.

31. If you rub a midget vigorously against your sweater, you can stick them to a wall

32. those tiny pellets you see in the woods arent rabbit-turds....

33. Every time a midget gets thrown down a flight of stairs, an angel gets their wings....

34. Midgets were used to repair the tracks to the underground railroad during the Civil War...

35. Midgets cannot be sold on Ebay...

(but can be on Overstock.com in certain circumstances....)

36. seven midgets have won the Congressional Medal of Honor, the last one for crawling down the spider hole to grab Saddam...

37. Midgets have 3 kidneys and are born without an appendix...

38. Midgets are born with the ability to speak Norweigan, nobody knows why...

39. Midgets are an excellent alternative fuel

40. Midgets NEVER get the extended warranty.


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## sachsmo (Nov 11, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Googled that one and found this.....
> 
> 1. If you hit a midget with a stick, he turns into 40 gold coins.
> 
> ...



damit,

there went the last gulp of coffee


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## Officer's Match (Nov 11, 2012)

sachsmo said:


> damit,
> 
> there went the last gulp of coffee



There's no such thing as a "last" cup of coffee.


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## sachsmo (Nov 11, 2012)

Officer's Match said:


> There's no such thing as a "last" cup of coffee.



Ahh,

in my world the last gulp of coffee is closely followed by the first swig of beer (weekends only of course)


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## dl5205 (Nov 15, 2012)

I'm so slow it hurts. Recently obtained a 379ml bottle of BelRay h1r, and wondered why the "odd" size. Did some calculating and realized: for 50:1, add to 5.0 gal gas; for 40:1, add to 4.0 gal gas; for 32:1, add to 3.2 gal gas; etc,etc,etc. Pretty sad when someone goes to all that trouble to think for you and you're too thick too realize it.


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## redoakneck (Nov 15, 2012)

dl5205 said:


> I'm so slow it hurts. Recently obtained a 379ml bottle of BelRay h1r, and wondered why the "odd" size. Did some calculating and realized: for 50:1, add to 5.0 gal gas; for 40:1, add to 4.0 gal gas; for 32:1, add to 3.2 gal gas; etc,etc,etc. Pretty sad when someone goes to all that trouble to think for you and you're too thick too realize it.




I was wondering the same thing, glad you posted this info!!!! My wife must be right about my thick skull/small brain??


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## BigMoneyGrip (Nov 15, 2012)

It would be cool if they just put it on the label, though. It would save us from having to use our thick heads.


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## dl5205 (Nov 16, 2012)

redoakneck said:


> I was wondering the same thing, glad you posted this info!!!! My wife must be right about my thick skull/small brain??



I thought someone might find that useful.


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## rsbhunter (Nov 16, 2012)

*ratio*

That is a FANTASTIC piece of info...You're right, its a little thing, but it's a no brainer when you need it...mix the gallons of gas (5.0/3.2/4.0 ) to a bottle...no guessing...Thanks for taking the time for edumacating the rest of us....rsbhunter


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## Majorpayne (Apr 20, 2013)

Where do you guys buy H1R? Any sponsors sell it?


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## KenJax Tree (Apr 20, 2013)

I buy it local at the bike dealer but Amazon has it fairly cheap, i'm not aware of any sponsor that sells it. If you have a powersports dealer close by i bet they have it or can order it for you.


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## stihl023/5 (Apr 20, 2013)

Ebay has it also.:msp_scared:


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## Stihlman441 (Apr 20, 2013)

I think flash point has a lot to do with burning clean.
Mobil 1 T2 Racing 100 deg C
Motul 800 Racing 244 deg C
Royal Purple TCW111 Racing 127 deg C
Belray H1R Racing 202 deg C


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## tdi-rick (Apr 21, 2013)

Stihlman441 said:


> I think flash point has a lot to do with burning clean.
> Mobil 1 T2 Racing 100 deg C
> Motul 800 Racing 244 deg C
> Royal Purple TCW111 Racing 127 deg C
> Belray H1R Racing 202 deg C



It's a lot hotter inside a combustion chamber than 244*C 

I think you'll find that the oils with lower flash points have been cut with solvents to promote mixing and aid in injector setups, basically any oil licensed to JASO FC/FD will be like this, the pure race oils are generally of a higher viscosity, (no solvents) their prime function is protection of the skirt/s and bearings.


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## Vibes (Apr 21, 2013)

dl5205 said:


> I'm so slow it hurts. Recently obtained a 379ml bottle of BelRay h1r, and wondered why the "odd" size. Did some calculating and realized: for 50:1, add to 5.0 gal gas; for 40:1, add to 4.0 gal gas; for 32:1, add to 3.2 gal gas; etc,etc,etc. Pretty sad when someone goes to all that trouble to think for you and you're too thick too realize it.



I have one of those old metal 5 gallon cans with the mix chart on the side. Still have to break it down when buying only a gallon though. I've since wrote stuff like that down on the garage and shed wall and add the oil into the empty can before I go get my gas.


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## tdi-rick (Apr 21, 2013)

Vibes said:


> I have one of those old metal 5 gallon cans with the mix chart on the side. Still have to break it down when buying only a gallon though. I've since wrote stuff like that down on the garage and shed wall and add the oil into the empty can before I go get my gas.




Just go fully metric guys, soooo much easier


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## stihl023/5 (Apr 21, 2013)

tdi-rick said:


> Just go fully metric guys, soooo much easier



:confused2:


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## tdi-rick (Apr 22, 2013)

stihl023/5 said:


> :confused2:



Working out mix ratios in litres and millilitres as is used in the rest of the world is dead simple compared to Imperial/US standard measures 

eg, 5 litres of fuel = 100ml of oil for a 50:1 mix ratio, 40:1 = 125ml, etc


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## Zombiechopper (Apr 22, 2013)

tdi-rick said:


> Working out mix ratios in litres and millilitres as is used in the rest of the world is dead simple compared to Imperial/US standard measures
> 
> eg, 5 litres of fuel = 100ml of oil for a 50:1 mix ratio, 40:1 = 125ml, etc



Don't confuse the yanks with simplicity. Plus, I don't want them to catch on. They'd force the whole world to be metric to match what they do and then before you know it we'll be calling 2x4's 38.1x 88.9's and then everyone will wonder why on earth the stated measurement for a piece of lumber actually matches the real size  It's best to let them be happy the way they are.


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## tdi-rick (Apr 22, 2013)

Zombiechopper said:


> Don't confuse the yanks with simplicity. Plus, I don't want them to catch on. They'd force the whole world to be metric to match what they do and then before you know it we'll be calling 2x4's 38.1x 88.9's and then everyone will wonder why on earth the stated measurement for a piece of lumber actually matches the real size  It's best to let them be happy the way they are.




 

Methinks you'll get a bite or three


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## cmarti (Apr 22, 2013)

Zombiechopper said:


> Don't confuse the yanks with simplicity. Plus, I don't want them to catch on. They'd force the whole world to be metric to match what they do and then before you know it we'll be calling 2x4's 38.1x 88.9's and then everyone will wonder why on earth the stated measurement for a piece of lumber actually matches the real size  It's best to let them be happy the way they are.



Please don't change lumber on me at my age......None of my corners would match......I would still keep subtracting out of habit:msp_razz:
We are a stubborn bunch. I was a wee lad in the 70's when they made the big push to go metric........It died of passive resistance. Globilization is dragging us there slowly. But you gotta admit a 426 Hemi sounds better than a 6.9 .


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## stihl023/5 (Apr 22, 2013)

Zombiechopper said:


> Don't confuse the yanks with simplicity. Plus, I don't want them to catch on. They'd force the whole world to be metric to match what they do and then before you know it we'll be calling 2x4's 38.1x 88.9's and then everyone will wonder why on earth the stated measurement for a piece of lumber actually matches the real size  It's best to let them be happy the way they are.



We like chocolate milk too.


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## JRHAWK9 (Apr 22, 2013)

tdi-rick said:


> Working out mix ratios in litres and millilitres as is used in the rest of the world is dead simple compared to Imperial/US standard measures
> 
> eg, 5 litres of fuel = 100ml of oil for a 50:1 mix ratio, 40:1 = 125ml, etc



everything, not just mixing ratios, is easier with the metric system....it's all based on 10. 

A gallon....what's a gallon? Oh, that's 4 quarts. A quart, what's a quart?? Oh, that's two pints. What's a pint? Oh, that's 2 cups. What's a cup? Oh, that's 8oz. What's an ounce? Oh, that's 6 teaspoons. To convert from gallons to teaspoons one just can't count the factors of ten (adding or removing 0's) like you can in the metric system.


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## Gadjeep (Apr 23, 2013)

*Motul 800 2T*

I'm a believer in the 800 as well. I've been running it in my Vespas for years with excellent results. I've held my ported, bigbore P200 wide open on the freeway for miles and miles and miles and never burned it up. I pulled the engine apart a few years ago and the innards were beautiful. Considering how miserly it is on fuel and running it at 50:1 the oil is doing its job. I've run it in my dirtbikes too with very good performance. It can usually be found at any european motorcycle or scooter shop.


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## tdi-rick (Apr 23, 2013)

*Motul 800 2T*



Gadjeep said:


> I'm a believer in the 800 as well.



But the clincher is, it smells like bananas ! 

While the 800 2T OR works very, very well, I'm tempted to go with the Road Race version as

1) slightly higher viscosity

2) blended to run at richer mix ratios (OR is for 40 to 50:1) RR is for 25-33:1)

3) the richer mix ratios is because a road race bike spends much more time at 100% WOT and higher in the rev band than an MXer/Enduro bike.

The throttle % and time spent in the cut, particularly in the part of the world I live with our stupid hard wood and long cut times with big saws (which may be more akin to milling than dropping and blocking) generates lots of heat and therefore stresses piston skirts and little ends in particular.

Husky won't warrant the 395 and 3120 unless you run 33:1 here, and the large Stihl dealers in logging areas have found much longer life with 660 and 880's running 33:1 vs Stihls recommended 50:1.

Having said that, a saw is still nowhere near the BMEP's of any high performance two stroke, the karts I was involved in 25 years ago produced from 16-28HP (depending on class) out of an air cooled 100cc, Aprilia RS 125 GP bikes were generating something like 34HP in road trim and about 55HP in full race trim


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## KenJax Tree (Apr 23, 2013)

tdi-rick said:


> But the clincher is, it smells like bananas !
> 
> While the 800 2T OR works very, very well, I'm tempted to go with the Road Race version as
> 
> ...



What about the 800 Pro Racing Premix?


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## tdi-rick (Apr 23, 2013)

KenJax Tree said:


> What about the 800 Pro Racing Premix?




There's two versions, 800 2T Off Road and 800 2T Road Racing

https://www.motul.com/system/produc..._2T_Factory_Line_Off_Road_(GB).pdf?1362490748

http://www.motul.com/system/product...tory_Line_Road_Racing_TDS_(GB).pdf?1302119951

I forgot to add that both versions use Calcium Sulfonate in the additive package which protects against moisture/water corrosion too.
It's actually added to prevent throttle sticking in wet conditions with slide carbies, but the best marine/anti-corrosion greases and oils I know of use it as an anti-rust additive.


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## KenJax Tree (Apr 23, 2013)

My bike shop has 3 versions they have off road,road racing,and pro racing. Not sure if i can post the link. Look it up its Motul 800 2T Pro Racing Premix.


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## tdi-rick (Apr 23, 2013)

I only get US shop hits, nothing on the French or Oz Motul sites and every US hit shows a bottle of the Off Road blend ?


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## KenJax Tree (Apr 23, 2013)

tdi-rick said:


> I only get US shop hits, nothing on the French or Oz Motul sites and every US hit shows a bottle of the Off Road blend ?



Yeah i don't see the Pro Racing on the US site either maybe its now Off Road and the Pro Racing is NOS??


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## SAWMIKAZE (May 13, 2015)

Times sure do change.


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## KG441c (May 13, 2015)

Top notch back in the day and shitty all the sudden??!! Lol!!


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