# East coast faller's



## brycelunsford (Apr 5, 2013)

Are there any logging companies on the the east coast that hand fall tree's anymore? All I ever see now is mechanized harvesting around Virginia. The only place's where I see where faller's are needed is northern california, oregon, washington, and bristish columbia. I'm just curious is the professional timber faller a dying breed?


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## 056 kid (Apr 5, 2013)

There is still a good amount of hand falling done.


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## twochains (Apr 5, 2013)

There is plenty of hand falling in Arkansas. You have to be out of the flat lands though. The crew I cut for has a Hydra Ax, however I do 95% of all the cutting. Insurance is what is turning everything into mechanized...that and a mech crew can throw the trees down way faster than a cutter. In good pine my boss can cut a pole truck load every 15 minutes...that's kind of hard to compete with.


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## ShaneLogs (Apr 5, 2013)

Cutting by machine is way more faster and they can be more productive about it and not have to worry about people getting hurt with saws. Hand falling is much slower and dangerous then it is with a harvester or a processor.


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## 056 kid (Apr 5, 2013)

That's why we work at 100+ percent grade more than not... No machines allowed gravity enforced!


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## Twindad (Apr 5, 2013)

You're not on the wrong coast. Not even in the wrong state. Here in the mountains of Virginia, most timber is still cut with chainsaws, as I imagine it is in other eastern states with steep ground.


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## hammerlogging (Apr 5, 2013)

056 kid said:


> That's why we work at 100+ percent grade more than not... No machines allowed gravity enforced!



And stumps 26"+ the norm.


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## brycelunsford (Apr 5, 2013)

Appreciate all the feedback guy's. Yea I know harvesting tree's with feller buncher's and processor's is much more productive and safe but I just hate to see the art of hand falling timber going by the wayside, and it is an art. I mostly do arboriculture type work now but now and then I get a falling job and put the calk's on. Mostly small urban tracts, steep terrain, property borders where precision falling is needed, or as rare as it is around here tree's to big for the machines to handle! Would love to check out the guy's working in northern va and mountain area's to see it still being done. Thanks again guy's.


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## Samlock (Apr 6, 2013)

My province, Northern Finnish Karelia, cuts 3,5 million cubic meters timber each year, yet I know each and every of hand cutters around here by the first name, at least. All long time ago mechanized flatland industry at its worst. People say to me they thought my species is already extinct. I have always said that there is not much of us left, but what's left is much needed. I personally think it's better than having plenty of jacks out there, yet not much need for each. Getting along has much to do with making yourself hard to replace. Machines do the piece work a lot faster and cheaper. They're not digging ditches with hand shovels anymore, are they? However, the hand cutters these days don't need to listen much whining about the silly cube prices and such BS. I can live with that. Plus I'm really happy that people who have no gifts or desire to do this line of work, are not forced to it anymore. 

End of praising modern times.


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## timberland ts (Apr 6, 2013)

About 50/50 here. I hand cut my brother in law has a harvester. We cut totally different wood lots. Both have there place. Both make money if done right.


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## Oldtimer (Apr 6, 2013)

Hand falling is a great way to barely get by. I know, I do it as a one man show.
Older brother is going to invest in a buncher and join forces with me..and I can not wait.
It will increase production and safety by several orders of magnitude.
Hope to convince him to buy a tracked machine with a 22" head...and not some run down POS, but a fair shape machine that should run a few years with little heartburn. That means $50,000 to $70,000 minimum.. He is scared of that big of a payment, but better a known payment than a surprise $10K repair.


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## imagineero (Apr 7, 2013)

templar said:


> You are so right there buddy......maybe it's a sign of the times (not for the better me thinks) the rise of the machines and the speed that everyone wants things done these days.
> 
> 
> Money rules these days.........since being back over here I'm looked on like a dinosaur and you are so so right no faller can compete on flat land with a machine. I think it sad but may be I'm just to backward looking



People said the same thing when chainsaw falling started taking over in a big way from hand falling with misery whips and axes.

Shaun


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## timberland ts (Apr 7, 2013)

If getting a tracked machine ck the finals. My bil had everthing new but finals when he bought his and the finals went cost him 20k to replace them.


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## Tree Feller (Apr 8, 2013)

Twindad said:


> You're not on the wrong coast. Not even in the wrong state. Here in the mountains of Virginia, most timber is still cut with chainsaws, as I imagine it is in other eastern states with steep ground.




Thats right most of the cutting here in the foothills and flat country to the east is done by machine. Unless it's to big for the machine to handle or to steep. But up in the mountains it's mostly done by hand because it's to steep. Thats the way i see it in NC anyway? There was a logging outfit cut about a 10 acre tract close to me and done all but about 20 to 30 trees with the machine and fell the others by hand due to the size.


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## Gypo Logger (Feb 10, 2015)

It all depends on the size of the outfit and what species is being cut. As woodlots become smaller hand falling is more economical. Most mechanical falling is reserved to pine plantations in rural agriculture areas around the Great Lakes.
Regardless it's a huge country and the stuff is growing faster than it's being cut down.


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## Skeans (Feb 10, 2015)

Even here on the west coast they are using more bunchers and they will push the size as much as possible lots of double or hitting them from as many sides as possible.


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## bitzer (Feb 13, 2015)

John you always dig up these old threads. Nothin to do up there? Plenty of hardwood gets mech cut in the lake states by the way.


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## 1270d (Feb 14, 2015)

bitzer said:


> John you always dig up these old threads. Nothin to do up there? Plenty of hardwood gets mech cut in the lake states by the way.



If you can get a buncher to it, it gets cut. We don't grow a whole lot of big timber, at least here in my area. Some of the companies manage their hardwood stands to 70 ft taking everything over 16 inches first, unless it must be left for spacing. Very very few guys can make a living with a saw and skidder or forwarder here, wood just isn't worth enough. Hard to compete with production bonuses the big operators get. 10k cord a month is the threshold for that I think.


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## bitzer (Feb 15, 2015)

1270d said:


> If you can get a buncher to it, it gets cut. We don't grow a whole lot of big timber, at least here in my area. Some of the companies manage their hardwood stands to 70 ft taking everything over 16 inches first, unless it must be left for spacing. Very very few guys can make a living with a saw and skidder or forwarder here, wood just isn't worth enough. Hard to compete with production bonuses the big operators get. 10k cord a month is the threshold for that I think.


I would say thats true of about everything north of oshkosh. We still grow em big down here. Its not unusual for me to be sawin on thousand bf timber.


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## EvilRoySlade (Feb 17, 2015)

I'm new to the F&L group but this interests me. My FIL runs a family mill in N. Michigan, says they need a million BF to stay profitable. 1.3 to make extra with firewood logs. All of their timber is cut by hand. From what I read the numbers don't make sense. He has two fallers he uses. One a lone guy with saw and skidder that does 60-70% of their wood. Best guy, cuts what is marked. Other is a few guys that cut what's easy, marked or not as long as they get the BF from the property. 
Sorry for the story. How can one guy cut 700K BF of timber in 10 months? He takes 2 off every year. He'd need 70K a month. Is that possible by hand?
Good question is how a faller measures his catch


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## bitzer (Feb 17, 2015)

I do 70,000 plus bf per month and pulp cordage. I'm a one guy show with a Husky 390 and a 25 year old Franklin forwarder. I try not to take off work at all. I've got 5 kids to feed ya see and I eat a hell of a lot too. Theres plenty of weather/break down days for vaction time anyway. My goal is 1 million feet this year plus a thousand cords ( my year starts and ends with break up). I'm somewhere around 800mbf right now.


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## EvilRoySlade (Feb 17, 2015)

Interesting. I want to take over the mill with his son but good fallers is the biggest problem. Sadly it's not the market but work ethic that will kill his mill. Maybe that's my calling


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## Skeans (Feb 17, 2015)

Well if markets on fir here in the northwest keep it up you guys maybe to get some of our guys.


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## Keen (Feb 18, 2015)

Hey Roy, what's the name of your FIL's mill? I'm from gladwin and me and brother handcut all our timber. The average mill pay for our area is $100-105 per mbf on the doyle scale which is hard making a living working for that unless they keep you in stellar timber all the time. There is good hand cutters around but most are buying there own timber and making a lot more money by doing so. In the last few weeks I received three phones calls from mills I have sold to in the past looking to get wood produced. Until they up there pay they are going to have a hard time finding anyone good to produce for them. Hope things work out for your FIL mill hate to see any mill tank.


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## treeslayer2003 (Feb 18, 2015)

Keen, where you been? is that 105 and you haul it? i couldn't do that. some mills are paying 150 here but you have to haul it. thats about as low as i could do it for.


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## Keen (Feb 18, 2015)

Playing in the cold man, hows things going down south? 100 to 105 on the landing. Its ok in big timber but if they have you cutting small timber the scale hurts.


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## mr simpel (Feb 18, 2015)

I haven't seen any bunchers here in WV.


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## treeslayer2003 (Feb 18, 2015)

Keen said:


> Playing in the cold man, hows things going down south? 100 to 105 on the landing. Its ok in big timber but if they have you cutting small timber the scale hurts.


i can't complain, tho i do lol. it was really wet, now its really cold. it will be very wet again soon. such is logging.


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## northmanlogging (Feb 18, 2015)

Part time, fat guy, but... managed to get somewhere around 100k this year, average 2 days a week, with several weeks of "other" jobs. So saying I worked year round 700k isn't unattainable.


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## Skeans (Feb 18, 2015)

Only spend roughly 3 maybe 4 months a year in big nice wood but roughly 350k last year one year we did just shy of 700k maybe five years ago. The rest of the year is in 20 to 40 year old plantation Doug fir thinnings that I thank god we have a harvestor for.


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## RandyMac (Feb 19, 2015)

Did you know that the largest Oaks, are in California?


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## treeslayer2003 (Feb 19, 2015)

but they crooked?


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## EvilRoySlade (Feb 19, 2015)

Keen,
There're up near Pellston. He said that's about right for Doyle but he doesn't use it. Not enough big lumber to scale with it. He uses scribner and does it loosely. His dad started the mill in '45, my FIL's been buying/marking for about 25 years or more. The mill is the only job he's ever had.


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