# Stihl 038 AV Super questions



## OC455 (Apr 30, 2014)

Howdy Folks

After finally making a decision to use wood for heating, and getting back into it, and my two Stihl purchases, a gent I know offered to give me an older Stihl saw that he said was given to him, that he won't use. He told me it was a Stihl 038 AV, and i believe he said it was a Super. He said it was a big saw and had a two foot bar/ chain on it.

He said he couldn't get it running and that he is not going to bother trying to fix it.. Not sure what is wrong with, as I haven't got it in my possession yet.

Anything I should look for specifically?

Having a third Stihl on hand isn't a bad thing in my opinion. I have a MS 391 and a MS 660 currently.

Thanks for any info you guys can give me.


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## RedFir Down (Apr 30, 2014)

Its hard saying what is wrong with the saw with your explanation of it not running but remember Compression, Spark and Fuel is all it takes for it to come to life.
If it has been sitting awhile or has had ethanol fuel through it be sure to make sure it doesn't have an air leak and the crank seals, intake boot, fuel and impulse lines are in good shape. 

Welcome to the site.


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## harrygrey382 (Apr 30, 2014)

If it's been sitting for ages it may need a carby kit. But first make sure the exhaust isn't blocked, tip old fuel out, fill with new fuel, and give her some cranks with choke. If nothing happens pour a thimble of fuel down the carby. Crank a few times. If nothing happens check for spark, if it sparks either timing is out (unlikely) or compression is too low. If it runs and dies, problem is fuel related or major air leak related. Then there are lots of paths you can take but you need to start somewhere!

Oh yeah and the 038 series are possibly the toughest saws ever built. The super doesn't have bad power, and you have a 660 for real grunt. But you can throw a magnum top end on it to go from 67cc to 72cc. Need to open the exhaust if you do that (and slot the cylinder bolt holes of course).

As it stands it won't be far off weight and performance of the 391 (without looking at figures) but will be tougher, better quality, have heaps more aftermarket parts and just be a more likable saw IMO


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## OC455 (Apr 30, 2014)

Thanks gents. Like I said, having another quality saw around is not a bad thing for me. I've read some good things about the 038 series saws. I know it's hard to do diagnosis of it without it being here, just was curious if there was any quirks or odd things I may have to look into.

I take it a top end kit is popular conversion? Don't know too much about the slotted cylinder bolt holes?


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## harrygrey382 (Apr 30, 2014)

OC455 said:


> Thanks gents. Like I said, having another quality saw around is not a bad thing for me. I've read some good things about the 038 series saws. I know it's hard to do diagnosis of it without it being here, just was curious if there was any quirks or odd things I may have to look into.
> 
> I take it a top end kit is popular conversion? Don't know too much about the slotted cylinder bolt holes?


One quirk I forgot - the choke is in the air filter, not its strong point. The plastic shaft that controls the choke can snap, so check the whole thing's engaging like it should. Also mine used to jump over the earth spring.

You need to slot the holes of a magnum cylinder as the mount pattern is very slightly different. Takes about 3 minutes with a super gasket and 7/32 chain file


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## OC455 (Apr 30, 2014)

harrygrey382 said:


> One quirk I forgot - the choke is in the air filter, not its strong point. The plastic shaft that controls the choke can snap, so check the whole thing's engaging like it should. Also mine used to jump over the earth spring.
> 
> You need to slot the holes of a magnum cylinder as the mount pattern is very slightly different. Takes about 3 minutes with a super gasket and 7/32 chain file



Okay, definitely something to check then. My old mans Sach/Dolmar has a plastic choke shaft. Probably a different design, but something to check for sure.

Thanks guys, kinda excited here. I did a rebuild on the carb for the Sachs/Dolmar 123 my dad has, it runs as if it was new again.....30+ year old saw. I have a bit of knowledge....enough to be dangerous.


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## Greg Perryman (May 1, 2014)

The only complaint I have is my shut off switch is getting worn. Every now and then if I hit it just right, it kills the saw.
The 38 is one tough saw, I have a 20 in. bar on mine and that seems to be a perfect combo.


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## PES+ (May 1, 2014)

Every part of that one is available aftermarket as well.....you can even build a whole new chinese 038 if you want


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## heyduke (May 1, 2014)

harrygrey382 said:


> One quirk I forgot - the choke is in the air filter, not its strong point. The plastic shaft that controls the choke can snap, so check the whole thing's engaging like it should. Also mine used to jump over the earth spring.
> 
> You need to slot the holes of a magnum cylinder as the mount pattern is very slightly different. Takes about 3 minutes with a super gasket and 7/32 chain file



and... that mickey mouse choke is probably the biggest negative for the 038. they can be difficult to start on a cold morning. once you've started one and got it warm it will run on one pull for the rest of the day. oh, and the other complaint you hear, they are just a little heavier than some other 70cc saws, not that i ever noticed.


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## OC455 (May 3, 2014)

Not really to worried about heavy saws.....as long as I can get it running and it runs fine, that will make me happy....still haven't received it yet. Hmmm....


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## MuskokaSplitter (May 3, 2014)

Got my 038 super goin. I did a complete teardown on it. Runs freakin good now. Lots of grunt imo. Yes is a little heavy but thats fine with me too.


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## OC455 (May 4, 2014)

Dumb question time. As the "new" saw is to arrive tomorrow. After doing some research here, it shows the 038 uses a Bing carb. Reading up, some others have suggested replacing it with a Tillotson carb. Worth it, or will rebuilding the Bing carb be a better idea? Not that I have any idea on what Tillotson carb would be a suitable replacement for it. I have rebuilt a Tillotson carb on my pops Sachs/Dolmar and it was pretty straight forward. Another question, what is the 038 Super rated at? I have seen different power ratings but nothing saying "hey this saw is rated at this" specifically, more like guesses.

I'm hoping it isn't beat to piss either. I know there's replacement parts, but the less I have to do the better. Found a dual port muffler for it if that would be a good upgrade.


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## harrygrey382 (May 5, 2014)

OC455 said:


> Dumb question time. As the "new" saw is to arrive tomorrow. After doing some research here, it shows the 038 uses a Bing carb. Reading up, some others have suggested replacing it with a Tillotson carb. Worth it, or will rebuilding the Bing carb be a better idea? Not that I have any idea on what Tillotson carb would be a suitable replacement for it. I have rebuilt a Tillotson carb on my pops Sachs/Dolmar and it was pretty straight forward. Another question, what is the 038 Super rated at? I have seen different power ratings but nothing saying "hey this saw is rated at this" specifically, more like guesses.
> 
> I'm hoping it isn't beat to piss either. I know there's replacement parts, but the less I have to do the better. Found a dual port muffler for it if that would be a good upgrade.


They had bings and tillotsons, the bings being the one people consider better. However there doesn't seem any difference in performance, possibly just build quality (german vs irish). The bings can be harder to rebuild purely as parts are more expensive or harder to get (one of the two, i forget which). I had a tilly, thought it was bad, replaced it with a bing (actually it was bad linkage). I didn't notice any difference. IMO one is as good as the other

038AVS is rated at 4.4hp and 2.8ft-lbs of torque (from the manual)


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## Dan Forsh (May 5, 2014)

IIRC the parts for the Bing are extremely expensive. I had a really battered 038 fitted with a Bing once and got to talking with a guy who wanted this saw, just because of the carb. The whole saw looked like it had spent 6 months at the bottom of a pond, including the carb, but he still wanted it, just for that carb. Go figure.


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## Red Amor (May 5, 2014)

Probabley one of the best saws STHIL ever made My 38 mag just a fab olsaw ever reliable strong as and 26 years of fire wood to three house holds still going strong run 24 inch in hard wood well
If you dont want yours send it to me ;o))


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## harrygrey382 (May 5, 2014)

Dan Forsh said:


> IIRC the parts for the Bing are extremely expensive. I had a really battered 038 fitted with a Bing once and got to talking with a guy who wanted this saw, just because of the carb. The whole saw looked like it had spent 6 months at the bottom of a pond, including the carb, but he still wanted it, just for that carb. Go figure.


I have heard things like this, but fail to understand - I bought my bing carb new from a dealer in the UK about 5 years ago for 65GBP... And he wasn't the sort to hoard old parts - he had to order it from Stihl


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## OC455 (May 5, 2014)

Red Amor said:


> Probabley one of the best saws STHIL ever made My 38 mag just a fab olsaw ever reliable strong as and 26 years of fire wood to three house holds still going strong run 24 inch in hard wood well
> If you dont want yours send it to me ;o))



Just got it this morning. It's seen some use, but overall looks okay. Needs a lot of cleaning. Peering through the spark plug hole, the cylinder doesn't look bad. The air filter is loaded. Used a screw driver to scrape off the outside of it....pretty bad. There was gas in it, don't know if the guy that gave it to me put gas in it or not, but it smelled old. Dumped that quick. He also pulled the coil out of it. Don't know why....plug looked old too.

Gonna have to go to the local Stihl shop here, drop off some chains to sharpen. Take this along to see what they say.


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## OC455 (May 5, 2014)

Well, checked everything out. Brought it over to thee local Stihl dealer (Hud-son Forestry Equip.) Got the coil put back in the way it should be. New spark plug, checked for spark, all good there. Replaced the nasty old air filter with a brand new one from Stihl. Bought a can of Stihl moto-mix. Went back home, put my good 25inch bar and new chain on there. 3 pulls with it on choke and it burbled...went one up and it fired and died. Couple of more pulls and then I put it back on choke and then it sputtered and died. Up one and then a few more pulls and it fired up. Hit the trigger and got it going. I don't know how long it sat or how long it has been neglected, but I was very happy it fired and ran.

I ran it at WOT and it seemed to race a bit. Made a few cuts with it, it bogged a couple of times. Shut it down and then went back to the dealer. Replaced a screw that was the ground/ ground strap for the off switch. Got it tuned real quick as it was spinning close to 14k RPM at a couple of different times.

Got that squared away and got the idle squared away too.

I pulled the muffler off and there a bit off scoring on the front part of the piston but it wasn't deep and the tech at the dealer said the rings were good. He said it may run for a good while before having to do anything to like a top end kit. He said because the filter was in such bad shape that stuff got in there and caused some of the scoring...

I think I did good for $25....


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## OC455 (May 5, 2014)

harrygrey382 said:


> They had bings and tillotsons, the bings being the one people consider better. However there doesn't seem any difference in performance, possibly just build quality (german vs irish). The bings can be harder to rebuild purely as parts are more expensive or harder to get (one of the two, i forget which). I had a tilly, thought it was bad, replaced it with a bing (actually it was bad linkage). I didn't notice any difference. IMO one is as good as the other
> 
> 038AVS is rated at 4.4hp and 2.8ft-lbs of torque (from the manual)



The tech at the shop said it had the Tillotson on it. So that's a good thing right there. Don't think a re-build is anywhere in the near future for this one.


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## harrygrey382 (May 5, 2014)

sounds like you did very well. All this 038 talk makes me want mine back! Just watch for the 'racing', it kind of sounds like a lean condition - this is what burns the top end up real quick. But if the dealer tuned it and was happy then you should be good. 

Just remember for the future if the idle climes high and doesn't drop, it accelerates REAL slow and or the top end is very high and smooth you may have a lean condition which you must address.


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## OC455 (May 5, 2014)

harrygrey382 said:


> sounds like you did very well. All this 038 talk makes me want mine back! Just watch for the 'racing', it kind of sounds like a lean condition - this is what burns the top end up real quick. But if the dealer tuned it and was happy then you should be good.
> 
> Just remember for the future if the idle climes high and doesn't drop, it accelerates REAL slow and or the top end is very high and smooth you may have a lean condition which you must address.



Sounds good. I have no history on this saw other than the guy that dropped it off to me said it was given to him, and he didn't want it. I think he said he had a Husky 362, so this wasn't his cup-o-tea. His loss, my gain. I think a dual port muffler would help this one out some especially with the longer bar/chain on it.


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## OC455 (May 6, 2014)

I had to play today. I ran another full tank of gas through it, no problems starting at all. After it's warmed up, one pull starts. Using the 25inch bar on it, has no problems pulling through the silver maple chunks. Nice long wood cuttings. I'm liking this saw. I still think it could use a dual port muffler.


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## Wood Doctor (May 6, 2014)

I really like my Stihl 038AV. No, it will not outcut my MS361 that has a smaller engine displacement. Regardless, it starts without any decomp press, never floods, has no flippy caps, and it will kick the butt of a FarrmBoss (029, 290, etc.).

It was made in West Germany, and I don't have many saws in my collection that say the same thing on the sprocket/clutch housing.


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## OC455 (May 6, 2014)

It feels like the 038S has a little more low end grunt than my 391...it handles the 25inch bar/chain pretty good.


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## Duane(Pa) (May 6, 2014)

OC455 said:


> It feels like the 038S has a little more low end grunt than my 391...it handles the 25inch bar/chain pretty good.


That's their claim to fame. We have a saying around here when a guy gets a smokin' deal: YOU SUCK!


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## OC455 (May 6, 2014)

Duane(Pa) said:


> That's their claim to fame. We have a saying around here when a guy gets a smokin' deal: YOU SUCK!


I've had people say worse things to me!  I like it. I was going to give it to my brother, but I think I will just keep it. If he wants to "borrow" it, he can swing over and use it. He's not touching my other saws....


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## Duane(Pa) (May 6, 2014)

No, no, no, find a wild thing or something else to lend. It may be bullet proof but it's not brother proof. "Yea, I put oil in it, it just quit after five minutes"


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## OC455 (May 6, 2014)

Duane(Pa) said:


> No, no, no, find a wild thing or something else to lend. It may be bullet proof but it's not brother proof. "Yea, I put oil in it, it just quit after five minutes"



Good point....He can borrow the Homelite z3850b....that was given to me. It runs, but has no chain/safety brake. I use that for a limbing saw....as you can tell I don't even list that one. :/


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## OC455 (May 7, 2014)

Anyone know the time frame the 038 AV Super's were produced?


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## Wood Doctor (May 7, 2014)

OC455 said:


> Anyone know the time frame the 038 AV Super's were produced?


If they say "Made in West Germany" on the bottom of the outer clutch cover, like mine does, you have to figure about 1990 or earlier. When did the the Berlin wall come tumbling down? Mine is not the Super, however.

"On Nov. 9, 1989, jubilant East and West Berliners began tearing down the Berlin Wall, which had symbolized the Iron Curtain for 28 years."


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## OC455 (May 13, 2014)

This has got me a tad bit puzzled. Running the 038 today and it would hog into the blocks but then it would bog down bad. Chain would just stop dead. Pull it out and run it WOT and let off on the trigger. Would start the cut again and just bog down and stop.....I cleaned out the clutch cover good before running it. Any ideas. Not really to good with carb adjustments if that's what's needed. Anything else I should be checking for. It's oiler is working good so I don't think there's any drag on the chain.


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## Wood Doctor (May 13, 2014)

Sounds like it might be the chain. Check that. Seems like the cutters are trying to cut bigger chips than necessary. Depth gauges may be dropped too far. If so, that would overload he engine.

Other than that, your old engine might be just plain getting tired and producing half the horsepower that it should.


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## OC455 (May 13, 2014)

Hmmm....brand new chain, didn't even touch it up yet. Pulled hard the other day when I was using it, and it didn't even bog down, it ran like a champ. Maybe clean out the bar?

Bah!


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## Wood Doctor (May 13, 2014)

I doubt the bar is the culprit. Seems like low compression from an old engine. That could explain why the guy dropped off the saw to you. The 25" bar may be more than it can handle these days. This saw is easily 20 years old. Machines get tired and have to be rebuilt. Stihls are worth rebuilding.


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## OC455 (May 13, 2014)

No doubt about it being old, but it still has pretty good compression. Will walk it over to the Stihl shop here and check for sure.

Will see. I've seen folks mention going with a Mag conversion, but really don't know if that would be something worth the expense. Hone the cylinder, piston and rings?


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## Duane(Pa) (May 13, 2014)

My guess is that the problem lies in the fuel system somewhere. It had been running strong a few days ago right?


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## OC455 (May 13, 2014)

Yup. Was running pretty good.


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## harrygrey382 (May 14, 2014)

Did the dealer tune it? It may well be out of tune - too rich can do that. Turn the H screw in 1/8 of a turn see what happens. If it doesn't help try a bit more, if still no better turn it back to what you had. Then try the other way, but my guess would be it's rich. I once had a stihl dealer tune my 056 with a tach, afterwards it was gutless. So much so I pulled it down completely, rebuilt the carb twice, new air filter, all fuel lines, seals etc.. Then I tuned it in the cut - it become the torquey wood eating saw it should be. The moral is always try tuning before anything else. That was back when I didn't know anything 



OC455 said:


> Hone the cylinder, piston and rings?


Don't hone, piston may well be ok. Could just get away with OEM rings and maybe a light rub with emery paper. But the chrome plating is so hard nothing does much


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## OC455 (May 16, 2014)

Well, here's the update. Told the guys what was going on with the saw and how it bogged out in the cut and what it was doing. They checked it out, ran it, and then the tech said he checked the fuel filter in the tank. Filter was loaded, he checked the fuel line, it would squish together and stick there. He took the carb out and checked it too. Carb was loaded up. So new filter, line and a carb cleaning. He said the gaskets and diaphragm were all still good, just dirty. He ran it, said it blew through the logs they had out back. So, it was just dirty and the fuel impulse line needed replacing. All is happy. Right now it is a freakin monsoon out so I'm not going to be able to go out and play today....


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