# Yet another pole saw thread: There's got to be a better way



## tree md (Apr 9, 2009)

There's got to be a better way to pull loose hangers than to continually tear up a $200 Hayauchi in doing so. I tore up another Hayauchi yesterday (3rd one in little over a year). I was pulling a hanger out from about 20' over a high line and had to pull it towards me (over the limb that it was hung in and not the direction it wanted to go) and I lost my footing on one of the limbs that I was bracing against as I pulled and the saw lost purchase. When I slipped I dropped about a foot to the next limb I was using for leverage and the middle section dropped onto a limb and bent. I just bought this pole saw 2 weeks ago so needless to say I was sick. Thank God I still had the middle section from an older Hayauchi and was able to replace that section. I was using the pole saw in the tree because it was safer to pull the hanger away from the line, towards the tree instead of doing it from the ground and taking a chance of the hanger carrying the pole saw into the powerline. There was zero chance of hitting the line the way I was pulling it in the tree. I got down and threw a throwline over the limb, set a rope and pulled it out but I had to throw the line within 20' of the powerline which I don't like to do. 

Anyway, I got to thinking that a $50 hanger is not worth a $200 pole saw. I love the light weight and reach of the Hayauchi and the blade is awesome but it sure is easy to tear one up. Especially when you spend day after day pulling storm damaged limbs out of trees. Just wondering what you guys are using as a less expensive alternative to the Hayauchi for working in the tree.


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## limbwalker54 (Apr 9, 2009)

I use the old fashioned ash poles that clip together for tasks such as that. Yeah, they're heavier. But when they smash into something they don't break or bend, and I don't feel bad if I run over one.......


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## Job Corps Tree (Apr 9, 2009)

*Pole saw Thread*

I like the Jameson pole saws 1 or 4 6' or 8'& just a head or hook and pull away
I know that the end Furrele can get bent ( the Bottom one) I take a Female ferrule fill it with old Oak or Hickory Handel fron an old tool and put up on the Bottom Drop it from 50' that Oak will just bounce or stick in the lawn


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## tree md (Apr 9, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> I got almost a month out of my $200 ARS pole saw!
> 
> Piece of crap that it was.



I was just looking at the ARS on Sherrill's site $262 now. I'm sure it's a nice saw and all but believe I'll pass.


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## eljefe (Apr 9, 2009)

*Re: Pole saw*

Hi, I have the little brother of the Hayauchi, the Zubat 13 footer. I got that one 'cause it was on sale at WesSpur, still is, I think. I like it alot, paid 100 bucks for it. Beautiful little saw! Well worth the money.
The only drawback is the scabbard has no easy way to clip it anywhere. I'm up in a tree, unlimber the little guy and "Well now what do I do with the scabbard, duh." Well some duct tape later and that problem solved.
You can buy the Fred Marvin fiberglass poles, poles only. Each section is only $30.00 (WesSpur). So if you break a single section on a $50.00 hanger you still made $20.00. That's a small joke. But the point being is that if you were to fashion a hook end for it, the cost factor, if one section gets smashed is not so much and you are not tearing up the pole saw for a job it was not really meant to do.
eljefe


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## CRN Tree (Apr 9, 2009)

2 jameson 8 footers with a home made hook that locks right it. Works great for hangers and advancing climbing and setting ropes.


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## Ghillie (Apr 9, 2009)

Extendable paint roller pole? I think they are less than 40 bucks for 16 feet extension.


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## tree md (Apr 9, 2009)

Ghillie said:


> Extendable paint roller pole? I think they are less than 40 bucks for 16 feet extension.



Bekieve it or not Ghillie I've got one of those telescoping paint roller poles somewhere. I'm thinking about digging it out and modifying it the same as you did. Probably be somewhat flimsy but the price is right.


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## deevo (Apr 9, 2009)

I've been using my 2-3 times a week since I got mine in November for trimming jobs, haven't had any issues with it, I am probably going to get a replacement blade for it soon since I've cut so much with it. The things a beast, I've been cutting through some big limbs with it! Only issue I had though is today, my dad was cutting, forgot to close the tabs, 1 extension came out landed butt first in the mud and filled it up with mud for 6"s! It's a good thing he's family! Anyone else I would of tore a strip off of!:greenchainsaw:


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## Ghillie (Apr 9, 2009)

tree md said:


> Bekieve it or not Ghillie I've got one of those telescoping paint roller poles somewhere. I'm thinking about digging it out and modifying it the same as you did. Probably be somewhat flimsy but the price is right.



This thread has me thinking. Maybe attach a hook on a rope to the end of the pole so you are pulling with the rope, the pole is just guiding the hook placement.

Price is definately right, and if it breaks, you still have the pole saw to use to finish the tree.


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## murphy4trees (Apr 9, 2009)

*how about rainsing your prices*

What's wrong with charging $75 for the hanger and actually climbing the tree?
Or for that matter $100-150... Why not? You still have to show up... there are companies around here that won;t show up for anything less than $300... 

Get a big shot if you can;t throw to set a nice high tie in point and learn to footloack or get a foot ascender or a SLT system... whatever it takes ... learn to climb... REALLY CLIMB... I often think back on how difficult my life was back before I learned how... I climbed for 15 years before I learned how to REALLY CLIMB... OMG... the thought of all that wasted time and energy.. I drive by trees I struggled with 15 years ago and they look so straigh forward... simple... 

You just have to learn to climb... I can climb 50 trees or more and not call for the pole saw once.. And my teachers can climb 100 and not need one. Monsters too! Usually the pole is only needed of there are hangers on adjacent trees.. Occasionally just easier to pick out little deadwood when a tree has no center..


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## tree md (Apr 9, 2009)

murphy4trees said:


> What's wrong with charging $75 for the hanger and actually climbing the tree?
> Or for that matter $100-150... Why not? You still have to show up... there are companies around here that won;t show up for anything less than $300...
> 
> Get a big shot if you can;t throw to set a nice high tie in point and learn to footloack or get a foot ascender or a SLT system... whatever it takes ... learn to climb... REALLY CLIMB... I often think back on how difficult my life was back before I learned how... I climbed for 15 years before I learned how to REALLY CLIMB... OMG... the thought of all that wasted time and energy.. I drive by trees I struggled with 15 years ago and they look so straigh forward... simple...
> ...



I had set a line with a big shot, installed a friction saver and rope climbed this tree and cut the hanger from the very top, I actually took hangers out of all three forks of the top and made healing cuts. This was a smooth bark Hickory with lots of brush that every limb seems to catch on, one of the long tall hickories that was probably 80' and very slim limbs at the top. I used my 200T as well as my handsaw on the smaller limbs. I had to use the pole saw for this particular hanger because I didn't have big enough wood to climb up to reach it at the very top. I was trying to get this hanger out after it had fallen and had actually hung up in a lower branch over the power line. I was pulling this hanger on my way down using the pole saw to pull it away from the power line it was hanging over. I was also doing this for family so the hanger wasn't even $50, it was free. That was just a number I pulled out of my ass to illustrate a point. Not saying that I know everything but I haven't made it 18 years in this business and built a successful service by not knowing how to climb. I doubt many work that long in the business without learning a thing or two. And I get very good prices. Some a lot better than yours from some of your posts I've read (crane job for $1850?). I am open to criticism but not condescension.


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## Raymond (Apr 9, 2009)

I'm still looking for an adjustable pole for these saws, that don't slip in and out when using them.

The guys that come up with these never take'em out back and try them? :dunno:


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## tree md (Apr 10, 2009)

Raymond said:


> I'm still looking for an adjustable pole for these saws, that don't slip in and out when using them.
> 
> The guys that come up with these never take'em out back and try them? :dunno:



They Hayauchi is actually a really good pole saw Ray. It has two locking mechanisms, flip up levers and buttons. It doesn't slip but it is a little pricey to be having to replace 3 times a year.


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## Raymond (Apr 10, 2009)

tree md said:


> They Hayauchi is actually a really good pole saw Ray. It has two locking mechanisms, flip up levers and buttons. It doesn't slip but it is a little pricey to be having to replace 3 times a year.


Man I bought one of these ARS polesaws with the adjustable snap clips and it was slipping the very first time I used it. Wasn't even getting pinched, just cutting a damn limb. 





I took it back the same day and wanted my money back, like 4 hours later. 

He laughed and said he couldn't help me. Most businesses back up what they sell, guess I should of got one from Walmart.  :dunno: I had to take a brand new tool and drill and bust off the adjusters holders and drill holes about ever 2 feet with pins to keep it from moving.


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## tree md (Apr 10, 2009)

Is that the 20' ARS? That's an awful expensive saw to be having any problems with out of the box. I think you would like the Hayauchi. Not supposed to be used to pull hangers I imagine but when you work in an area where the trees have been devastated by an ice storm it's nice to be able to reach up there and pull the loose hangers out and clear them out of your ascent path before you climb. I'm sure some here don't use them much but they are thinking normal tree care. Storm work you get creative and use what you have to try to keep from busting your coconut.


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## Raymond (Apr 10, 2009)

tree md said:


> Is that the 20' ARS? That's an awful expensive saw to be having any problems with out of the box. I think you would like the Hayauchi. Not supposed to be used to pull hangers I imagine but when you work in an area where the trees have been devastated by an ice storm it's nice to be able to reach up there and pull the loose hangers out and clear them out of your ascent path before you climb. I'm sure some here don't use them much but they are thinking normal tree care. Storm work you get creative and use what you have to try to keep from busting your coconut.


 Yeah it's nice now after some ghetto rigging. I just use it now when I have 3 or 4 hangers scattered around the tree, It's got an awesome reach.

Yeah sometimes getting hangers out of a tree is like throwing a cat out the window going down the highway. You can do it but it's a #####. :hmm3grin2orange:


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## familytreeman (Apr 10, 2009)

*hanger*

go with murphy on the throw bag/big shot, and grab that hanger like spider man, no sense wasting time and tool 


when you do need a pole saw, stick with the cheaper jameson poles which you can FIX YOURSELF! You cant fix those fancy poles easily, let alone on the jobsite!


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## tree md (Apr 10, 2009)

familytreeman said:


> go with murphy on the throw bag/big shot, and grab that hanger like spider man, no sense wasting time and tool
> 
> 
> when you do need a pole saw, stick with the cheaper jameson poles which you can FIX YOURSELF! You cant fix those fancy poles easily, let alone on the jobsite!



OK, for the second time, I did set a line as high as I could with a bigshot and throwline, set a friction saver and got as high as I could before I had to snake my line through the nest of hangers in the top and recrotch higher in the tree. Number one, your not going to be able to set a line with a bigshot or anything else in the higher crotches when they are obstructed by a nest broken storm damaged hangers in a brushy Hickory. Number two, it was over a powerline. Not my favorite situation to try and shoot a line when there is a chance of getting into high voltage. The hanger snagged up in the hickory and rolled into a limb above the power line. No way to get out on the small limb it was hung in without chancing it breaking.

Thanks for the advice on the Jameson, I'll look into it.


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## VT_Tree_Wrecker (Apr 10, 2009)

*Pole pick*

Sherrill has a pole pick item 32360 that fits on the end of the standard pole, this has a hook and pick at the end and is only $23.00. I don't have one yet but one will be on my next order.


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## limbwalker54 (Apr 10, 2009)

Hey, before I get out to warm the truck up...... 
In Murph's defense, we do see a ton of guys around here that are what I call "bucket brigades" that won't get out of the truck for less than 300 and who are the same guys that will tell you "oh no ma'am we got to use the bucket for that limb".....
I don't think he was criticizing or condescending your skill, just trying to make a point that we (collectively) should make sure we excercise all climbing options before reaching for the pole...which I have seen many people use as a crutch.
My teacher wouldn't send up the pole unless my frustration level went to a visible 15 out of 10 while I was in the tree.....

Power lines are a different story....when working around the power, do what's safe. Which is what it sounds like you were trying to do. I always like to be tied in so that if in the event I was to swing, I would swing WELL AWAY from the power...in theory at least....


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## murphy4trees (Apr 10, 2009)

*my hyuchi*

I think is 17'... mybe 20'..
Got it in 2004, and it still operates perfectly... I have replaced the scabbord and the blade once.. That is it... Nice tool in the right situation.. Sometimes it gets used 5 times/week.. sometimes it stays in the truck for weeks at a time.

My only complaint would be it is too hard to hang or tie to a rope. I have a 1' loopie girthed to the slot on the tip of the scabbord and use that to tie and clip to... still a hastle..

Also after re-reading your original post Sure enough storm damage is a bit of a different situation.. especially if the top is broken out.. We haven't had a major storm around here in a long time. Seems like when the wind does blow it has totalled most trees that get damaged.. 

I guess pole saws in trees are one of my pet peeves... Last year I went to arbor day and saw a bunch of climbers running around trees making all pole saw cuts... And wondered how do these companies make and $$$ ???


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## Raymond (Apr 10, 2009)

murphy4trees said:


> I think is 17'... mybe 20'..
> Got it in 2004, and it still operates perfectly... I have replaced the scabbord and the blade once.. That is it... Nice tool in the right situation.. Sometimes it gets used 5 times/week.. sometimes it stays in the truck for weeks at a time.
> 
> My only complaint would be it is too hard to hang or tie to a rope. I have a 1' loopie girthed to the slot on the tip of the scabbord and use that to tie and clip to... still a hastle..
> ...


Well yeah murphy, if it wasn't for storm damage I would of never considered buying one myself. 
And as far as your problem with them, I did this to mine so I could carry it Robin Hood style.


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## Ghillie (Apr 10, 2009)

VT_Tree_Wrecker said:


> Sherrill has a pole pick item 32360 that fits on the end of the standard pole, this has a hook and pick at the end and is only $23.00. I don't have one yet but one will be on my next order.



There you go Tree MD.






Someone already has what I was thinking of. It is basically a pike pole attachment (like firefighters use to pull ceilings in fire damaged structures)

Not as cool as my painters pole  but very functional. I know it may be a pain to bring out another pice of equipment, but seeing your luck with the Silkys....


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## Raymond (Apr 10, 2009)

Ghillie said:


> There you go Tree MD.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I bought one for my yellow sticks but they never seemed to have an edge last very long at all.


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## Ghillie (Apr 10, 2009)

Raymond said:


> I bought one for my yellow sticks but they never seemed to have an edge last very long at all.



I don't think it is supposed to have a cutting edge, is it?

Pike poles are meant as a pulling tool. The sharp point on the end is for driving through plaster and lathe and the hook is turned and pulled downward.


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## Raymond (Apr 10, 2009)

Ghillie said:


> I don't think it is supposed to have a cutting edge, is it?
> 
> Pike poles are meant as a pulling tool. The sharp point on the end is for driving through plaster and lathe and the hook is turned and pulled downward.


Well yeah I don't leave home without it. I thought you were talking about the blades you can put on them.


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## treeseer (Apr 10, 2009)

Man i thought i abused my hayauchi but 3 in a year that's amazing. I use mine a lot--same tool four years-- and have been around the horn with murph's anti-pole opinion already. they are good for large spreading trees so you can prune adjacent leads without climbing them, and very useful for the light reduction cuts often needed in trees around here.

i like the hook they make for it, but i put mine on a dogleash while climbing. And yes i agree with murph polesaws can be a crutch--always best to tie in high and limbwalk wide.


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## tree md (Apr 10, 2009)

I guess I could have been a little more descriptive in my OP and should probably be a little more thick skinned. I am not a big fan of pole saws in the tree either. The pole saw is my last choice for making pruning cuts in the tree. It's unwieldy and if you don't take the time to make multiple pruning cuts the limb can split and peel under it's own weight. Not to mention the fact that it can work you to death. I believe that you exert far less energy if you just climb up to where you need to make your cut and do it with a handsaw. 

My biggest pet peeve is the guys who will not climb up to the proper point to make their cut, make their cuts to low and essentially hat rack the tree. You can drive down many rural roads around here and see lines of hat racked trees where someone rented a small lift and just went down the road topping tree after tree. To tell the truth, I never used a pole saw much until I saw a climber who contracted with me last year use a hayauchi. First I had seen one in action. I thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread and is a life saver in trees that are severely storm damaged. I like to cut the loose hangers out before I ascend the tree and clear my path for safety reasons. I will also often cut the hangers out of neighboring trees while aloft and mitigate the hazard before I climb them to make the proper cuts. The first two saws I mentioned were tore up by my groundies pulling hangers from the ground and getting the saw hung up in them as they crashed to the ground. I bent one of the saws onetime but was able to repair it. When I bent the saw this time It was the last straw. We have been doing storm damaged trees for nearly a year and a half now. I am looking for a better more cost effective way to pull hangers if need be. 

I am thinking I'll get a Jameson with a pole pike. Thanks to all for your input and apologize if I came off as a know it all or offended anyone.


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## tree MDS (Apr 10, 2009)

I love these pole saw threads, lol. opcorn:

Maybe if a certain some of you actually knew how to use a pole saw old school style you might see things differently.


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## tree MDS (Apr 10, 2009)

All this climbing around needlessly like yer 23 or something - I dont get that! what is that like a midlife crisis thing or something?? lol.


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## Blakesmaster (Apr 10, 2009)

Our local lineman's supply sells a little tool that attaches to the end of jameson poles. I have no idea what it's called but it's slick for setting ropes and pulling hangers. It looks like this.

__ __
__)(____________________

...errrr, kinda. The long line at the end is s'posed ta be the pole. and at the end of the pole there's a U facing you and a U facing away. Anybody see one of these? We always called it the penetraitor. Thought it fitting.


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## Raymond (Apr 10, 2009)

Blakesmaster said:


> Our local lineman's supply sells a little tool that attaches to the end of jameson poles. I have no idea what it's called but it's slick for setting ropes and pulling hangers. It looks like this.
> 
> __ __
> __)(____________________
> ...


Talkin' about one of these Blakester?


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## Blakesmaster (Apr 10, 2009)

Raymond said:


> Talkin' about one of these Blakester?



That's the jobby! And, are you serious with that tatoo? That's like having "Molson" inked on my forehead. You're a different kinda guy, Raymond.


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## Raymond (Apr 10, 2009)

Blakesmaster said:


> That's the jobby! And, are you serious with that tatoo? That's like having "Molson" inked on my forehead. You're a different kinda guy, Raymond.


 LOL I've said I was ate up with this work. 
You know how many ol' boys seen that with my hand shake, bidding jobs and getting the job becuase of it? I've lost track. My secret though don't tell anyone. 

Man I wanna hang out with you guys tonight but I have to go eat dinner with the endlaws.


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## tree MDS (Apr 10, 2009)

Thats for working with powerline fuses or something.

I dont get it?? Some of you dont have access to the standard pole saw head?? Seriously, I dont get it! Dont your pole heads have a hook where you bolt the blade?? that hook is for pulling hangers+ moving/pulling ropes 

BTW, thats the first time i've had to use that ghey google-eyed symbol sinse I've been hanging around here.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Apr 10, 2009)

I like a 12 ft basswood pole. Hayuche in the tree is good for some things, but often the risk reward just does not balance out.

I hate ferrule joints, because that is where most of the slop in the saw comes from; so you end up fighting the saw.


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## Raymond (Apr 10, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> Thats for working with powerline fuses or something.
> 
> I dont get it?? Some of you dont have access to the standard pole saw head?? Seriously, I dont get it! Dont your pole heads have a hook where you bolt the blade?? that hook is for pulling hangers+ moving/pulling ropes
> 
> BTW, thats the first time i've had to use that ghey google-eyed symbol sinse I've been hanging around here.


Who said I didn't have one?





Later fellas


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## fishercat (Apr 10, 2009)

*mine works great!*



TreeCo said:


> I got almost a month out of my $200 ARS pole saw!
> 
> Piece of crap that it was.



has for a couple years.remind me to never let you borrow anything.


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## Greenstar (Apr 11, 2009)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> I like a 12 ft basswood pole. Hayuche in the tree is good for some things, but often the risk reward just does not balance out.
> 
> I hate ferrule joints, because that is where most of the slop in the saw comes from; so you end up fighting the saw.



Most good arborists I know have either 10' or 12 ft. basswood (or fir and hemlock they're making them out of now quite often) straight, stiff, and light long poles, they have some extra replacement poles on hand ($20ea.), take a sheet of sandpaper to them once in a while, and keep your $15 Jameson, or some other cheaper tri-cut razor toothed blades like Gilford for $12 or $13 sharp. Keep a watch on the blades when loading truck etc, and they will last longer and cut VERY well, and then just change them out ever month or so.

If you get a pole (and you know wood, so grab one and look at the grain, and mount the head on it in such a way that its solid, treat it like your samarai staff, and become zen with it, take care of it, and it will be your best friend. 

I would never spend $200 on a pole saw! :sword:
How much weight can you really save from a basswood pole. Not much.


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## tree md (Apr 12, 2009)

Greenstar said:


> Most good arborists I know have either 10' or 12 ft. basswood (or fir and hemlock they're making them out of now quite often) straight, stiff, and light long poles, they have some extra replacement poles on hand ($20ea.), take a sheet of sandpaper to them once in a while, and keep your $15 Jameson, or some other cheaper tri-cut razor toothed blades like Gilford for $12 or $13 sharp. Keep a watch on the blades when loading truck etc, and they will last longer and cut VERY well, and then just change them out ever month or so.
> 
> If you get a pole (and you know wood, so grab one and look at the grain, and mount the head on it in such a way that its solid, treat it like your samarai staff, and become zen with it, take care of it, and it will be your best friend.
> 
> ...



Excellent post. Thanks for the advise.

"I would never spend $200 on a pole saw!"

I think if you ever gave the Hayauchi a try and see what you can do with it you would reconsider.


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## Raymond (Apr 12, 2009)

tree md said:


> Excellent post. Thanks for the advise.
> 
> "I would never spend $200 on a pole saw!"
> 
> I think if you ever gave the Hayauchi a try and see what you can do with it you would reconsider.


I'm gonna get one this summer.


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## treeseer (Apr 12, 2009)

tree md said:


> I think if you ever gave the Hayauchi a try and see what you can do with it you would reconsider.


Just yesterday I used my Hayauchi to pull out some storm-fallen branches out of the top of a 30' elm, and deadwood a maple without climbing it.

Then I collapsed it and put it back in my honda civic wagon.


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## Greenstar (Apr 12, 2009)

Yeah, have a lightweight, collapseable, aluminum $200 polesaw on the job, with all the groundies around, I wonder how long that would last! Lol...


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## fishercat (Apr 12, 2009)

*people that work around me know what they can and can't use.*



Greenstar said:


> Yeah, have a lightweight, collapesable, aluminum $200 polesaw on the job, with all the groundies around, I wonder how long that would last! Lol...



if they are in a bind they can use my saws if i am standing there but if i'm not right there ,don't touch.


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## tree MDS (Apr 12, 2009)

I love a polesaw, especially for rigging tip tie/butt tie, I'll just hang out at the trunk your average 70-80' red oak, set the tip line with three 6' sections and smoke cigs while keeping two guys very busy- maybe enjoy a nice smoke or two.

I waste very few moves in a tree and almost always stay several cuts ahead in my mind. 

Damn good help for pruning (even though I dont really like it) big trees also.

You can pry my polesaw from my cold dead fingers.


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## treeseer (Apr 12, 2009)

YOur groundies would steal it? break it? Both? 

Maybe a lock and key...


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## Greenstar (Apr 12, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> I love a polesaw, especially for rigging tip tie/butt tie, I'll just hang out at the trunk your average 70-80' red oak, set the tip line with three 6' sections and smoke cigs while keeping two guys very busy- maybe enjoy a nice smoke or two.
> 
> I waste very few moves in a tree and almost always stay several cuts ahead in my mind.
> 
> ...



Me too! I can climb out to any tip, but WHY? 
I never climb a tree without my polesaw. I use it all day long, its like part of me. Its zen.
I can set up strategically in a location, lean back, and prune like 10 or 12 things from one central location.

IMHO I don't think you can do a correct Class I pruning without a pole saw.

Peace


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## Raymond (Apr 12, 2009)

Greenstar said:


> Me too! I can climb out to any tip, but WHY?
> I never climb a tree without my polesaw. I use it all day long, its like part of me. Its zen.
> I can set up strategically in a location, lean back, and prune like 10 or 12 things from one central location.
> 
> ...


I too like my stick tools, for the right situations. 
But I wouldn't consider every tree the right situation.


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## YankeeinSC (Apr 12, 2009)

I own 20 Stihl products and haven't ever even considered a bumpersticker! ...and I thought I had passion.


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## M.Green - SVTS (Apr 13, 2009)

*Jameson Fiberglass*

When we are clearing and hangers are left we use Jameson poles. They work great and I have never seen one break (aside from the truck driver running over the aluminum end of it) the whole time that I have been doing this sort of work.


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## Raymond (Apr 13, 2009)

M.Green - SVTS said:


> When we are clearing and hangers are left we use Jameson poles. They work great and I have never seen one break (aside from the truck driver running over the aluminum end of it) the whole time that I have been doing this sort of work.


Oh you can brake'em.


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## Raymond (Apr 13, 2009)

YankeeinSC said:


> I own 20 Stihl products and haven't ever even considered a bumpersticker! ...and I thought I had passion.


Yeah I'm silly like that. I wanted a couple tats but wanted it to be corresponding with me. And a dragon and sword just wasn't it.


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## murphy4trees (Apr 13, 2009)

Forgive me for sounding repetitious here, but I wouldn't want the newbies around here to be misled by all the bad info on this thread. Anyone that thinks you need a pole saw to prune or remove a tree, or that it is in some way better or faster to use one, has never seen a world class climber in action. If you had, you wouldn't be making such ridiculous statements. 

I know that sounds smug and condescending and that is why some people find my posts irritating, but it just happens to be true,and I don't know any other way of saying it. I have a hyuchi and two 12' wood polesaws on the job at all times, but they don't get used in the tree much. 

I went to arbor day last year and watched a whole lot of climbers running around trees making pole saw cuts. It was painful to watch their slow and clumsy movements.. A pole saw would just get in the way of a good climber. I made a comment to Tony Tresselt, a first class arborist in Lancaster, PA,... "lot of pole saws up there today" and he just nodded, knowing exactly what I was talking about. I AM amazed that a company can make any money in this business with that type of production.


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## tree MDS (Apr 13, 2009)

murphy4trees said:


> Forgive me for sounding repetitious here, but I wouldn't want the newbies around here to be misled by all the bad info on this thread. Anyone that thinks you need a pole saw to prune or remove a tree, or that it is in some way better or faster to use one, has never seen a world class climber in action. If you had, you wouldn't be making such ridiculous statements.
> 
> I know that sounds smug and condescending and that is why some people find my posts irritating, but it just happens to be true,and I don't know any other way of saying it. I have a hyuchi and two 12' wood polesaws on the job at all times, but they don't get used in the tree much.
> 
> I went to arbor day last year and watched a whole lot of climbers running around trees making pole saw cuts. It was painful to watch their slow and clumsy movements.. A pole saw would just get in the way of a good climber. I made a comment to Tony Tresselt, a first class arborist in Lancaster, PA,... "lot of pole saws up there today" and he just nodded, knowing exactly what I was talking about. I AM amazed that a company can make any money in this business with that type of production.



:chatter:


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## Raymond (Apr 13, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> :chatter:







Yeah Murphy, I sometimes worry about someone calling me on repeating myself but if you never do I should be OK.


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## tree md (Apr 13, 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoRPohOA8WI


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## tree MDS (Apr 13, 2009)

tree md said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoRPohOA8WI



That may just be the funniest post I've seen yet md.

Lol, rep comming!


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## tree md (Apr 13, 2009)

LOL, Murph Repped me for it. He can't be too bad. We all think our way is the best. 

Funny, I have hired technical climbers who will take an hour setting up and climbing up and down a tree 3 times when they would sometimes be a lot more productive just gaffing up it old school, natural crotching and using a blakes hitch. I like using new school techniques when they make more sense but when I have a quickie, I'll natural crotch and lower it in a minute instead of taking the time to set up a block or what have you. I try to draw on all of my experience I have learned over the years. Am I going to prune a whole tree with a pole saw? No. Am I going to pull a hanger or prune one limb with a pole saw when it will save me time by not having to climb. Every time. You've got to use common sense and use your head to be productive in this business. I'll take a less technical climber who is more productive over a world class climber trying to earn style points every time. I'm not competing in the worlds competition, I'm trying to make money.


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## Ghillie (Apr 13, 2009)

tree md said:


> LOL, Murph Repped me for it. He can't be too bad. We all think our way is the best.
> 
> Funny, I have hired technical climbers who will take an hour setting up and climbing up and down a tree 3 times when they would sometimes be a lot more productive just gaffing up it old school, natural crotching and using a blakes hitch. I like using new school techniques when they make more sense but when I have a quickie, I'll natural crotch and lower it in a minute instead of taking the time to set up a block or what have you. I try to draw on all of my experience I have learned over the years. Am I going to prune a whole tree with a pole saw? No. Am I going to pull a hanger or prune one limb with a pole saw when it will save me time by not having to climb. Every time. You've got to use common sense and use your head to be productive in this business. I'll take a less technical climber who is more productive over a world class climber trying to earn style points every time. I'm not competing in the worlds competition, I'm trying to make money.



Exactly, use the tool that works best for the job.


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## Raymond (Apr 13, 2009)

tree md said:


> LOL, Murph Repped me for it. He can't be too bad. We all think our way is the best.
> 
> Funny, I have hired technical climbers who will take an hour setting up and climbing up and down a tree 3 times when they would sometimes be a lot more productive just gaffing up it old school, natural crotching and using a blakes hitch. I like using new school techniques when they make more sense but when I have a quickie, I'll natural crotch and lower it in a minute instead of taking the time to set up a block or what have you. I try to draw on all of my experience I have learned over the years. Am I going to prune a whole tree with a pole saw? No. Am I going to pull a hanger or prune one limb with a pole saw when it will save me time by not having to climb. Every time. You've got to use common sense and use your head to be productive in this business. I'll take a less technical climber who is more productive over a world class climber trying to earn style points every time. I'm not competing in the worlds competition, I'm trying to make money.


BINGO!


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## murphy4trees (Apr 13, 2009)

Ya, I know what you mean... sometimes it is just faster and easier to put a ladder up and advance the tie in point, than fooling around with the throw line... That is mostly on medium sized trees or times when the throwline gets tangled or stuck, or just keeps missing by a little... To be honest, I rarely use a friction saver and have been using natural crotch rigging a lot more than I used to years ago. I tend to tie into small limbs that don't create a lot of friction. I have the rope guide and a home made friction saver and a sweet rigging block that switches out on a number of slings and also short slings with steel shackles for rigging. I use them when they make sense, though I haven't been climbing a lot of monsters lately... They all seem to get underbid by some desperate company that likes hard work more than making money.

SO I wouldn't identify myself as a new school purist,. and have seen a great competition climber prune a big oak with a leather tube friction saver and whole belt full of gear (that would make batman look like he's traveling light) and tried not to get too judgmental when he took twice or maybe three times as long to prune this thing than Big John or Pat Epps would have. He's not a production arborist and still he did a great job climbing out to every branch tip on a 100' leaning oak with no good center to tie into. Now most climbers couldn't or wouldn't climb like that, and so I gave him credit, yet I know it could have been done a lot faster. 

anyhow that is kind of rambling.. the point is not that all the new school gear is either good or bad, or fast or slow, because it all depends on the tree and the climber... AND the same does not go for pole saws. They are generally not fast or efficeint in most suburban tree climbing scenarios.. They often become a crutch that keep climbers from advancing in their climbing skills. You might be better off leaving the pole saw on the ground, tying in higher, planning your routes better and climbing with a bit more confidence, even if you have to fake it for a while. While yo're at it get a Zubat and leave the chainsaw on the ground too.. Then you can really move through a tree (for pruning obviously). Just try it a few times and see if you don't improve your climbing skills!


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## tree md (Apr 14, 2009)

murphy4trees said:


> Ya, I know what you mean... sometimes it is just faster and easier to put a ladder up and advance the tie in point, than fooling around with the throw line... That is mostly on medium sized trees or times when the throwline gets tangled or stuck, or just keeps missing by a little... To be honest, I rarely use a friction saver and have been using natural crotch rigging a lot more than I used to years ago. I tend to tie into small limbs that don't create a lot of friction. I have the rope guide and a home made friction saver and a sweet rigging block that switches out on a number of slings and also short slings with steel shackles for rigging. I use them when they make sense, though I haven't been climbing a lot of monsters lately... They all seem to get underbid by some desperate company that likes hard work more than making money.
> 
> SO I wouldn't identify myself as a new school purist,. and have seen a great competition climber prune a big oak with a leather tube friction saver and whole belt full of gear (that would make batman look like he's traveling light) and tried not to get too judgmental when he took twice or maybe three times as long to prune this thing than Big John or Pat Epps would have. He's not a production arborist and still he did a great job climbing out to every branch tip on a 100' leaning oak with no good center to tie into. Now most climbers couldn't or wouldn't climb like that, and so I gave him credit, yet I know it could have been done a lot faster.
> 
> anyhow that is kind of rambling.. the point is not that all the new school gear is either good or bad, or fast or slow, because it all depends on the tree and the climber... AND the same does not go for pole saws. They are generally not fast or efficeint in most suburban tree climbing scenarios.. They often become a crutch that keep climbers from advancing in their climbing skills. You might be better off leaving the pole saw on the ground, tying in higher, planning your routes better and climbing with a bit more confidence, even if you have to fake it for a while. While yo're at it get a Zubat and leave the chainsaw on the ground too.. Then you can really move through a tree (for pruning obviously). Just try it a few times and see if you don't improve your climbing skills!



I don't use a Zubat, I have a Sugoi (although I sometimes wish I'd opted for the Zubat) and use it anytime I can get away without having to lug the 200T up in the tree. Ive got a handsaw, Big shot, friction saver, Black Diamond hand ascenders, CMI foot ascender, prussic cord, Micro pulleys, caribiners and all the tools I need to get where I need to go in the tree. Funny that you tried to call me on this particular tree because I had shot a line in the tree with my big shot using my new cube for my throw line and was trying a new knot to climb on.

I wouldn't call myself a world class climber but I do know the tricks of the trade. Not that I am knocking technical climbers. I had a very good technical climber come team up with me when we got hit by a big ice storm a little over a year ago. I'd say he is a world class climber. It was TreeBot from this forum for any who cares to know. He is a very good climber and I learned a few tricks from him. One of which was to use a pole saw to advance your climbing line in a tree with a blown out top where it's not possible to shoot a line in a tree. He was very good at technical climbs and I recognized this after the first job we worked together. Wish I could have worked more with him but we had to split up to be efficient. I recognized his talent and put him on my #1 account. A high end condominium complex where they are particular about their tree work. I had to sell him to the powers that be there because they wanted me to do their work but was very happy with him when they saw what he was capable of. I utilized him on a lot of my jobs that entailed spikeless prunes as he is an expert in that area. I am efficient as well but I wouldn't say that I am as efficient as he in that area. I happen to have a lot of experience in aerial lifts, heavy rigging and putting big trees on the ground in tight areas. So I put the Bot on the technical prunes (like the one your world class climber did mentioned above ) and I did the large removals when I wasn't out in front selling. I put JPS (who came down with 2 world class climbers) and his organization on the overflow that I couldn't get to as well as another organization I met through AS. Would have liked to have put a lot more I met from this site on some work but I had my bases covered. My strength is in recognizing other's talent as well as my own, delegating to work as efficiently as I can. I love to climb but that is not my only role. I did what I was best at. I recruited help, recognized their capabilities and talent and utilized them accordingly in my busy time and now I am researching and trying different methods to make myself more efficient while I'm not so busy. Their is always a market for a good technical arborist. I am studying and working to become a better one every day.


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