# What saws do you use for general ground work?



## Goose IBEW (Sep 20, 2013)

I need a good saw for general ground work and chipper prep. I have a 12" chipper but it still requires a good deal of branch preparation. I guess I can drop bigger branches than my chipper can handle and a new chipper isn't in the equation right now.

I am sure most operations have some saws for the groundies, what are they and what would be on the groundies wish list? I have my top handle and a 70cc/24" bar saw that I use for most falling work. I need a couple of in between saws. I will divulge what I have in mind in a bit but want a clean slate for recommendations to start with, lets hear 'em.......


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## DavdH (Sep 20, 2013)

We use the cheapest throw-away saws we can find, they are consumables like oil and gas, usually they turn out much better saws than you ever dream they will. We have had them last months, occasionally, minutes and usually not a bad saw but an operator error, run over, dropped on in the fall zone, left at the last job last Friday, every thing you can imagine and then some. You will quickly have a collection of parts and can build a saw from parts if you standardize them. I can go to the non-runner pile and get a complete running usable saw in under an hour and never buy a single part.


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## beastmaster (Sep 20, 2013)

we keep a cheap top handle echo by the chipper for the ground guys to use and destroy. Lately they've latched on to the new stihl 150. I prefer a bigger saw for must ground work, like a husky 272xp, great saw. I use my old stihls 028 and 038 mag. a lot too, but their heavy compared to the husky


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## HuskStihl (Sep 21, 2013)

MS 290/1. Husky 455. Pro saws will last better in pros hands, but they are not more resistant to being lost, crushed, or straight gassed


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## miko0618 (Sep 21, 2013)

groundie gets used saws. they do NOT run my saws.


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## Zale (Sep 21, 2013)

362, 440, 460


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## sgreanbeans (Sep 21, 2013)

I like to have my 019 at the chipper. My boys can run all saws and know to care for them like a baby, so I have no issues with them running any of my saws. Just not up in the tree. That little Echo Cs 400 is a good saw for brush and small wood.


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## 2treeornot2tree (Sep 21, 2013)

A 192t and on occasion a 310. If I am cutting from the bucket, a lot of times I cut the piece so the will go right in the chipper. It only takes a few more seconds.


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## imagineero (Sep 21, 2013)

I try to keep multiples of each saw that we have for the same reasons as above. Having multiples makes diagnosing problems really simple, and as said already, you can recycle the older saws. I would never hire a groundie I couldn't trust with a saw, so I buy quality saws. We usually carry about a dozen saws in the truck, and they're all good runners, all sharpened each night and ready to start work in the morning. It's usually a few 200T's, a few 346 XP's, a few 441CRM's, a couple 660's and a pole saw or two. We never sharpen on the site, it's a waste of time and labor. I do carry spare chains. I figure if you blunt a dozen saws, twice, it's time to go home.

The 346 is a brilliant limbing saw. It's quick, light, powerful and handles nicely. I used to run 026 pros, never liked the 260 or 261 but after trying the 346 I was converted. Very zippy, and fantastic in our hardwoods. Nmurph does them refurbed for a good price, and I'd take a used refurb 346 over a new trash saw any day. If you're short on cash the husky 340e is actually not a bad ground saw either.

Shaun


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## Goose IBEW (Sep 21, 2013)

Well, the cheap Echo top handle is my in tree saw right now. Guess this could be an excuse for a new 201T but that may not be the most wise move. I was using a $100 had for 10 years super XL and it bit the dust the other day. That leaves me with my 20 year old Craftsman/Poulan 3.3 cube unit. It works, its rather light but I know its on borrowed time. I also borrowed 2 MS180's to see how I like them, they are great for the limb work but really small overall.

I have never owned a Stihl or a Husky so I would like to get into some better saws for the long run. My ground guy is as capable as myself at fixing and using a saw so that is less of a concern. The XP550 really catches my attention solely on the compactness, light weight and way it feels in my hands. The MS261 looks great as well but I don't really know much about either. I looked at the Echo CS400-450 and 500 and they seem nice too but not top end pro grade, I can afford 2 of them to one Stihl or Husky though. My ground guy is saying that 50cc is too big for chipper prep but the new saws are so light compared to what I'm used to that Im leaning towards something bigger to multi task.


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## treeman82 (Sep 21, 2013)

In the past I've left the groundies with a 260 / 290 / 200. The 290 was ok, but heavy for what it was, the 260 was unreliable and slightly lacking in power, and the 200 they were just flat out killing. Bought a 362 that is only for on the ground chipper use, and they like it a lot. Goes right through anything I put in front of them, so they don't have to switch out in order to cut logs in half or whatever.


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## treeclimber101 (Sep 21, 2013)

Goose IBEW said:


> I need a good saw for general ground work and chipper prep. I have a 12" chipper but it still requires a good deal of branch preparation. I guess I can drop bigger branches than my chipper can handle and a new chipper isn't in the equation right now.
> 
> I am sure most operations have some saws for the groundies, what are they and what would be on the groundies wish list? I have my top handle and a 70cc/24" bar saw that I use for most falling work. I need a couple of in between saws. I will divulge what I have in mind in a bit but want a clean slate for recommendations to start with, lets hear 'em.......



I love the smaller 361s but they may be discontinued , but the midrange 300's are nice , they can run up to a 25" to so you can handle bigger stuff with a lighter saw . Look out on interweb for the NJ forestry hand tool auctions they sell all there saws every few years , I bought 8 saws for 1000.00 , granted some were missing parts and not running but for a grand I got 5 good saws and alot parts ....


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## imagineero (Sep 21, 2013)

Goose IBEW said:


> Well, the cheap Echo top handle is my in tree saw right now. Guess this could be an excuse for a new 201T but that may not be the most wise move. I was using a $100 had for 10 years super XL and it bit the dust the other day. That leaves me with my 20 year old Craftsman/Poulan 3.3 cube unit. It works, its rather light but I know its on borrowed time. I also borrowed 2 MS180's to see how I like them, they are great for the limb work but really small overall.



No offense mate, but if you're posting in the commercial tree care forum and your 3 saws are a cheap top handle, and a 10 and 20 year old low grade saw respectively, you need to put your prices up or move to another trade.

Shaun


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## Goose IBEW (Sep 21, 2013)

imagineero said:


> No offense mate, but if you're posting in the commercial tree care forum and your 3 saws are a cheap top handle, and a 10 and 20 year old low grade saw respectively, you need to put your prices up or move to another trade.
> 
> Shaun



Everybody has a different story. I am divorced and give up $772 a week to child support and alimony. I started out with what I had on hand and am working towards better equipment. I know I have junk but am not going to lie about it just to fit in. I am ready to buy a pro grade saw for a specific application and wanted information from the pros themselves. I rarely ask for much as I know I am not on the same level as most here.


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## Groundman One (Sep 21, 2013)

250 and a 460.

Handles everything very nicely.


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## treeclimber101 (Sep 21, 2013)

Goose IBEW said:


> Everybody has a different story. I am divorced and give up $772 a week to child support and alimony. I started out with what I had on hand and am working towards better equipment. I know I have junk but am not going to lie about it just to fit in. I am ready to buy a pro grade saw for a specific application and wanted information from the pros themselves. I rarely ask for much as I know I am not on the same level as most here.



I am in Camden county , glendora to be exact if you need any help with #### let me know , just PM I can do what I can do to help


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## rlsaloga (Sep 21, 2013)

*Earthquake Saws*

I'm thinking about one of these as a cheap ground saw - $160.00 + 25.00 for 2year warranty - but I have to buy it online.
Does anyone have any experience with these? Thanks.


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## 2treeornot2tree (Sep 21, 2013)

Goose IBEW said:


> Well, the cheap Echo top handle is my in tree saw right now. Guess this could be an excuse for a new 201T but that may not be the most wise move. I was using a $100 had for 10 years super XL and it bit the dust the other day. That leaves me with my 20 year old Craftsman/Poulan 3.3 cube unit. It works, its rather light but I know its on borrowed time. I also borrowed 2 MS180's to see how I like them, they are great for the limb work but really small overall.
> 
> I have never owned a Stihl or a Husky so I would like to get into some better saws for the long run. My ground guy is as capable as myself at fixing and using a saw so that is less of a concern. The XP550 really catches my attention solely on the compactness, light weight and way it feels in my hands. The MS261 looks great as well but I don't really know much about either. I looked at the Echo CS400-450 and 500 and they seem nice too but not top end pro grade, I can afford 2 of them to one Stihl or Husky though. My ground guy is saying that 50cc is too big for chipper prep but the new saws are so light compared to what I'm used to that Im leaning towards something bigger to multi task.



I have been tossing the idea around about getting rid of my stihl 361 with 18" bar. I paid $250 for it.


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 21, 2013)

rlsaloga said:


> I'm thinking about one of these as a cheap ground saw - $160.00 + 25.00 for 2year warranty - but I have to buy it online.
> Does anyone have any experience with these? Thanks.



What?
:msp_confused:
Jeff


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## CanopyGorilla (Sep 21, 2013)

I may be the lone fan of my ms260 around AS. This is in my garage and not my boss' so it doesn't get run like a company saw but I still put tons of hours every fall gathering firewood for the winter. It's been plenty reliable and has good power FOR WHAT IT IS! I find it to be much lighter than the 310 size way more balls than 230. Oh, about the 230, we just got one at work and me no likey! just as heavy as my 260, but goes slower with a 16" bar than my 260 runs with a 20".


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## Toddppm (Sep 21, 2013)

CanopyGorilla said:


> I may be the lone fan of my ms260 around AS. This is in my garage and not my boss' so it doesn't get run like a company saw but I still put tons of hours every fall gathering firewood for the winter. It's been plenty reliable and has good power FOR WHAT IT IS! I find it to be much lighter than the 310 size way more balls than 230. Oh, about the 230, we just got one at work and me no likey! just as heavy as my 260, but goes slower with a 16" bar than my 260 runs with a 20".



Love my 026, just about my favorite saw to grab on the ground until the wood gets bigger.


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## mike047 (Sep 21, 2013)

Toddppm said:


> Love my 026, just about my favorite saw to grab on the ground until the wood gets bigger.



026 also.

Of the 4 Stihls currently in my work box[391,290,261,026] I work with the 026 the most. The 290 is for dirty stumps.


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## Str8six (Sep 21, 2013)

Goose IBEW said:


> Everybody has a different story. I am divorced and give up $772 a week to child support and alimony. I started out with what I had on hand and am working towards better equipment. I know I have junk but am not going to lie about it just to fit in. I am ready to buy a pro grade saw for a specific application and wanted information from the pros themselves. I rarely ask for much as I know I am not on the same level as most here.



I may get the boot for posting in here as I don't cut big time commercially, maybe three or so trees a week. Don't be ashamed of your equipment. I have big time respect for you and your honesty and your situation. I have a top handle Echo that I love. Its been ported but I loved it the same before that. I have done my best to kill it but it just keeps on going. I have a 200T as well that gets left behind a lot. Are you any good at working on saws?


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## deevo (Sep 21, 2013)

Toddppm said:


> Love my 026, just about my favorite saw to grab on the ground until the wood gets bigger.



Yep I got my 026 slightly modded earlier in the year and man what a saw now! Sounds awesome, cuts with good power! Just bought a new 550xp, gonna give er with it this week also! My 562 has been an amazing saw also! I still have my original 365 special I bought in 97 and its a powerhouse also! Cut down a lot of trees with that saw and still gets used daily, it's in my chip truck and always ready for action!


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## GarethVW (Sep 21, 2013)

We love our 026 it is usually the ground saw. Also, the 261 is a crew favorite! We find it powerful enough with a 16" bar that I see no need for a 361 size saw. By the time it is too big for the 261 grab the 460.


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## imagineero (Sep 21, 2013)

Goose IBEW said:


> Everybody has a different story. I am divorced and give up $772 a week to child support and alimony. I started out with what I had on hand and am working towards better equipment. I know I have junk but am not going to lie about it just to fit in. I am ready to buy a pro grade saw for a specific application and wanted information from the pros themselves. I rarely ask for much as I know I am not on the same level as most here.



It was intended as a beat down, just simple straight forward advice. If you aren't making enough to cover your gear etc, then put your prices up, or consider another trade. Have a read of this;

http://www.arboristsite.com/commercial-tree-care-climbing/211473.htm

Also, snap that 361 up if you've got the funds.


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## Goose IBEW (Sep 21, 2013)

I'm not afraid of working on saws, I muffler modded the 360T and adjusted the jets, runs much nicer now, they come really lean with the limiters on the carb. I have replaced anti vibe mounts, carb boots, fuel lines, cleaned carbs and such. I am not afraid of pulling cylinders apart, just haven't had a saw worth putting that kind of effort into.

I may very well look I to the 361 this week and plan to find an 026 as my next two saws. 

Raising my prices is very good advice and taken with gratitude, learning how to estimate is as difficult as any part of the industry for me. I aslo am putting money into some ads, probably a local community paper and possibly mail flyers. I'm not too keen on door knocking, been reading posts in the buisness section as well.

Thanks again for the replies here, I am grateful to have such quality advice.:chainsawguy:


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## imagineero (Sep 21, 2013)

There are a few pointers on quoting in this thread

http://www.arboristsite.com/arborist-101/189278-2.htm


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## rlsaloga (Sep 22, 2013)

jefflovstrom said:


> What?
> :msp_confused:
> Jeff






Earthquake 38-cc 2-Cycle 14-in Gas Chain Saw


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## adronetree (Sep 22, 2013)

*Hmm*

Smaller Groundsaws: If you like Husqvarna then for you want a 346xp which has now changed to the 550xp. If you like Stihl the equivalent is a 260. These saws will have smaller(.325) chain. They are not really fast enough for efficiency on logs and in my opinion maximum 18" bar on either brand. 

Combination Groundsaw: A good combination groundsaw for limbs and logs would be a Husqvarna 562xp which will run a 20" bar and larger (3/8") chain. If you want Stihl the equivalent would be a 362.. Either of these will run a 24" bar but it will not run it as fast as it will a 20". Once again a little slow on logs. I have both and the 562xp is a little stronger than the 362.


Bigger Groundsaws: For logs Husqvarna smallest to largest 372xp, 576xp, 385xp, or 395xp. 
If you like Stihl the equivalents would be 441, 460, 660. 
The 660 Stihl is closely matched with the Husqvarna 395xp and either of these is my preference for bigger saws. If you are going to have a little heavier saw you might as well have one that can handle it all. Do not hand the 395 or 660 to just any ground guy. 
*Hand it to them and if they don't know how to crank it, sharpen it, or file it properly then they are not allowed to use it.....*
All of these saws will run a variety of bars but the common choice where I am from is either a 24" bar or a 28" bar. Once again longer the bar, usually the slower the cutting speed.

Uber Groundsaws: Not practical for most situations depending on where you live and they usually spend more time in the truck than on the job. Heavy and bulky. These would be the Stihl 880 and the Husqvarna 3120xp. 

It is my opinion that the Stihl's are more reliable (crank the same every time) and the Husqvarna's are a little more touchy when cold. Meaning you may have to pull the Husky a few more times occasionally.
That being said I mainly use Husqvarna now simply because I like the local Husqvarna dealer much better than the Stihl one.


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## coolbrze (Sep 22, 2013)

For a sm. brush/chipper saw, it's hard to beat a 260 Pro w/ 18" .325 on it! Ours is ALWAYS right there until the wood gets too big.


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## treeclimber101 (Sep 22, 2013)

Found a few


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## treeclimber101 (Sep 22, 2013)

I enjoy crackheads list so. Much I could do this all day









it's like my goto place for finding ####


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## Toddppm (Sep 22, 2013)

If you're going to get a 026 I would skip the 361 and go to the next bigger like somebody up there said. Love that size too but if you're only going to have a couple saws they're too close in size to warrant having both. 
I talked my dad into buying a 036 about 10-15 years ago as he lives out in the country and needs a little bigger saw sometimes. Helped him take down some trees a couple weeks ago and that thing rips like a brand new beast of a saw still. Way more power than mine that's about the same vintage that I brought with me.


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## Goose IBEW (Sep 24, 2013)

2treeornot2tree said:


> I have been tossing the idea around about getting rid of my stihl 361 with 18" bar. I paid $250 for it.



PM sent.


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## treesmith (Sep 24, 2013)

my ms170 12" .050 adj carb + muff mod feeds the chipper, if the wood is too big then it's logs anyway. It is perfect for the job, maybe would've preferred a 180 but the 170 was far cheaper on sale new and has impressed me by not dying yet and it cuts well. It gets treated like it's hated but keeps going strong. Otherwise its the usual suspects of 200T, 346, 261, 361 then 288, 660, 395 and 088. There's a ms230 too but nobody likes that at all, a gutless piece of crap with no upsides


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## Goose IBEW (Sep 26, 2013)

Just won a MS260 off fleabay for $175. Local pick up and 14 day guarantee. Still waiting to hear the details on the 361.
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2


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## Goose IBEW (Sep 27, 2013)

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2


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## PassionForTrees (Sep 29, 2013)

For me I am running all Stihls and love everyone of them, my thoughts are this for me, if i am going to buy chain in rolls, why buy more sizes than need too? So for me I stick with the one size chain for my 020's and stick saw.. Then One size for the 361, 441 and 660 all same size chain and files! I keep it simple with less to buy, bars are interchangeable if you want as well. I only let the ground guys use the 361 and teach them all i can until they step up, but i am real anil when it comes to letting anyone use my 441 or 660. just not happening. :msp_sneaky:


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## Goose IBEW (Sep 30, 2013)

I cleaned up the 20" bar that came with the saw and bought a new chain. The biggest fault I could find is a cracked side cover and a .050 chain on a .0625 bar. I cleaned the air filter, inspected the clutch, put some grease on the clutch drum bearing and put it back together with the new chain.

The saw starts, idles, runs and cuts very well. One pull restarts every time. When this chain wears out I'm getting a new sprocket, two loops of chain and a bar, 16". The 20" makes the saw a bit nose heavy and it really doesn't pull it with authority when buried. 

Now I need some more of 'em, I like the idea of standardizing the arsenal.

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2


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## treeman75 (Sep 30, 2013)

My guys use a ms211 with a 16" bar or ms310 with a 25". My top handle saws are not allowed to be used on the ground, too easy for them to one hand them.


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## StihlRockin' (Oct 11, 2013)

HuskStihl said:


> Pro saws will last better in pros hands, but they are not more resistant to being lost, crushed, or straight gassed



Straight gassed! Yeah, tell me about it. I owned an awesome-shaped Stihl 036 Pro...

... right up until the point it froze up. Found out it was my bad because I had 2 identical gas cans and the one with the labeling "Mixed Gas Only" had the ink fade and voila'... straight unleaded did the saw in by an inattentive worker who knew better. :msp_sad:

*Stihl*Rockin'


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## JohnH (Nov 9, 2013)

We run 372s and 346s behind the chippers with short bars. Anything really big we'll grab a 394.


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## sgreanbeans (Nov 10, 2013)

JohnH said:


> We run 372s and 346s behind the chippers with short bars. Anything really big we'll grab a 394.


 U gotta post ur avatar pic so we can see it better. That looks like a boss outfit right there!


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## JohnH (Nov 11, 2013)

Ill try


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## RandomWoodsman (Nov 12, 2013)

Every truck has the climbers 200t a 361 and a 660 there are ussually 2 or 3 200ts because we run two or three man crews and everyone knows how to climb there is the foreman, 2nd man, and brush hauler but most o the time even the brush hauling guy knows the basics


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## OLD OAK (Nov 12, 2013)

JohnH said:


> Ill try


 Don,t mean to jack the thread but man that is a lot of equipment in your avatar. Someone sure knows how to be successful, Most of us will only dream to get to that point in business. For ground work most used are 2- ms250, small,light and easy to start. And a O34 super.


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## squad143 (Nov 12, 2013)

For general ground work............ MS261. A great light saw and a big improvement over the 026.

For bigger stuff I'm grabbing my 361 (rarely- only cause it's sitting there)

For big stuff I'll use my modded 044, then the 441, cause its soooo smooth and lastly my modded 046. Cuts like there is no tomorrow, but loud is an understatement. You need to use earplugs under you earmuffs. 

But for general groundwork, a MS261.


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## pdqdl (Nov 13, 2013)

A lot of you guys are mentioning some variety of top handled saw. I'm sure that your average groundie would be delighted to have a 200T hanging out by the chipper, but no top-handle saw is a good saw for groundies.

1. They have insufficient control for fast paced limbing; there is too little distance between the handles to give good control.
2. It's hard enough to keep a tree climber with both hands on the saw. Groundies are almost certain to cut corners and make one-handed cuts if you give them a top handled saw.
3. With the lower control and the shorter body, your groundies are almost certain to hit the dirt a little more often with a top handled saw than if they were using a longer bodied ground saw.​
Cuts, kickbacks, and dull chains are sure to follow. I forbid my guys to ever touch our top handled saws.

Besides, do you really want your backup climbing saw to get dulled hitting the pavement beside the chipper?


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## JohnH (Nov 17, 2013)

here you go


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## Groundman One (Nov 17, 2013)

Holy Crap!

That's quite a show you got going there.


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## pdqdl (Nov 17, 2013)

Wait! All those chipper combo's, cranes, and aerial devices with only one grapple truck? How does that work out?


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## Blakesmaster (Nov 17, 2013)

pdqdl said:


> Wait! All those chipper combo's, cranes, and aerial devices with only one grapple truck? How does that work out?


There's two in the pic but their Facebook page claims 3. Either way, helluva operation there. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## treeclimber101 (Nov 17, 2013)

If I was a young man with a head full of steam to make money , I would wanna be on that grapple , dude prolly works 7/12s ! Awesome . When I worked over in pennsy. The grapple truck left first to grab all wood missed the day before and then he started cleaning up that days mess around 1pm he as always making 60/80 hrs a week


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## squad143 (Nov 17, 2013)

JohnH said:


> View attachment 318854
> here you go


I liked the climbers riding the balls of the cranes. Didn't notice them at first.


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## 2treeornot2tree (Nov 17, 2013)

Johnh is john from tree tech inc. I was justing looking at there fb page this morning. Glad to see some of the boys from big bad wood showed up over here on As.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk


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## JohnH (Nov 18, 2013)

Thanks ,I've been on here for a few years and try to help out when I can. There's a lot of good people on here with a wealth of knowledge. Some sites are a little to stuffy for me. They think they walk on water.


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## Goose IBEW (Nov 18, 2013)

The derail is perfectly fine That is one cool picture


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## pdqdl (Nov 18, 2013)

Yeah, I could double my fleet size with the trucks they wouldn't notice were gone.


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## BC WetCoast (Nov 18, 2013)

Take a lot of salesmen to keep that beast fed.


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## treeclimber101 (Nov 18, 2013)

It's a impressive picture no doubt , I haven't seen another company take the time to stage a picture like that , I didn't even see the climbers hanging til tonight , imagine the fuel bill a week prolly what I make a month , maybe more ! Impressive


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## 2treeornot2tree (Nov 19, 2013)

treeclimber101 said:


> It's a impressive picture no doubt , I haven't seen another company take the time to stage a picture like that , I didn't even see the climbers hanging til tonight , imagine the fuel bill a week prolly what I make a month , maybe more ! Impressive


Are you saying my fleet isnt impressive eddie? 

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk


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## sgreanbeans (Nov 19, 2013)

JohnH said:


> View attachment 318854
> here you go


 Man! That is freakin awesome! Didn't realize it was you guys. You guys are catching a lot of flak because of the others on the show. But, when you are rich like Paul Sr, go ahead and send some of that gear my way, I take a couple trucks with chippers, that new bucket and the small crane, I'm not greedy.


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## sgreanbeans (Nov 19, 2013)

I noticed those one legged orchard ladders on top of the trucks, we ordered some when I was in SoCal, only problem is they didn't come with the strap to hold that single in place, it was BAD!


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## treeclimber101 (Nov 19, 2013)

sgreanbeans said:


> I noticed those one legged orchard ladders on top of the trucks, we ordered some when I was in SoCal, only problem is they didn't come with the strap to hold that single in place, it was BAD!


I got the 18fter it's awesome and stable you can literally put it up just about anywhere mine is made by stokes


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