# How to split big wood efficiently?



## Sandhill Crane (Nov 3, 2014)

Ordered logs for next year. Big price increase, plus not available till June. That does not work very well.
I can get big logs from a tree service but I'm not set up for that, but if I was, then getting wood just got easier, and cheaper. Question is... how to deal with big wood efficiently? 24"-30"
I am a one man operation. TW's seem like two man machines with a log lift. Could quarter stuff then resplit off the out feed table.
I looked at Tempest Splitters on line. Anyone have one, or use one?


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## sunfish (Nov 3, 2014)




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## blades (Nov 3, 2014)

One person here , I routinely deal with stuff over 25". Using my tractor I can set those on the splitter and go from there or noodlem down to manageable size then split. Then there are those that say split vertical - tried that don't like groveling on my knees trying to motivate a 20"x 30" piece of locust or other dense hardwood into position hand tools not withstanding. Takes me a lot less effort to saw down and the split or lift with tractor. You could rig a small lifting device easy enough -even a hydro car jack with a bigger top plate fabbed on it would work to lift- or roll up a ramp, ( not all of them are all that round though) Lot of ways to skin a cat . Sat & Sun we ( 2 of us)were loading 48"dia x 14-24" rounds( were anything but round) of Ash into a dump trailer (a little over a 36" rise) with a come-a-long and straps and ramp- weren't allowed to bring in power tools other than truck and trailer. A little jib hoist would have been nice but expediency was the name of the game so no time to slap something together, soft ground so a jack even with a larger ground plate under it would have been dicey, not many jacks with that kind of travel either.


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## Butch(OH) (Nov 3, 2014)

Best thing to do with huge wood is put it out by the road for other fools to deal with,,, 

I have both a horizontal/vertical splitter and another splitter with log lift and neither is good for production work in huge wood, ya they will get you by for the occasional big piece but all day long, day after day, nothing but big stuff? no way, they are just a crutch and will wear you out. We also run a splitter on the skidsteer and that gets us by pretty well. We clamp the big ones with it and carry them to the splitter and bust them down to sizes we can lift by hand, works best for us.


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## lindnova (Nov 3, 2014)

I noodle very large rounds and split vertical to size, then finish splits horizontal. If you have a big enough saw noodling is the way to go. With the big rounds you end up with nice clean wood. Seems like a lot of work, but you end up with a lot of nice wood per round. 

I always take the big pieces at clearing sites. Other guys think I am nuts, but noodling the pieces to manageable sizes is fine on my back.


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## Whitespider (Nov 3, 2014)

Don't be afraid 0f BIG wood.
Heck, I'm a one-man show and I work a lot of big wood... makes a bunch of firewood, most of it bark-free, without moving tools and equipment from site-to-site. I do it all with a 50cc saw (026), 16 and 20 inch bars, horizontal splitter, maul and wedges. It don't take special equipment... just a work plan that maximizes time efficiency using the equipment you have.
*


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## Kevin in Ohio (Nov 3, 2014)

Whitespider has it right. We did it for years without even having a hydraulic splitter or noodling. Slowly worked our way up over time equipment wise and PLANNED on what would best suit our process. That is the decision only you can make. I justify the cost of equipment based on money made from selling or the savings you have had from using wood as a heatsource. Your savings = better tools to make the process easier on yourself. I look forward to big ones now.


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## Ironworker (Nov 3, 2014)

I noodle, good excuse to get bigger toys, and like Whitespider sez, you get better splits out of it, plenty of nice overnighters.


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## jrider (Nov 3, 2014)

It's not a matter of being afraid, it's a matter of getting the most wood split in the least amount of time. For a home owner, processing speed isn't crucial. If you are selling wood though it is. The OP is getting wood delivered to his site either in log form, which by the sounds of it, hasn't been huge stuff or by possibly tree guys which will at some points drop off monster sized logs. In this situation, large logs will slow him down. Splitting is by far the slowest part of processing logs which have already been cut and dropped at a site. If the ram on the splitter isn't moving, you aren't making as much money per hour. And for me, the ram is running a lot more on the smaller stuff than it is with the bigger stuff. So in this application, bigger wood will slow you down. 

Sandhill, is it possible to hire someone with a strong back and plan on stock piling the big stuff for when you can both work? For me, that has been the fastest method for dealing with big wood and I've tried noodling, sledge and wedge, picking up big ones with the forks on the JD, rolling them up a 2x8 to the beam, etc.


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## Zeus103363 (Nov 3, 2014)

I love it all big and small! 







Thanks


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## svk (Nov 3, 2014)

Not as much time working with big stuff around here. 18" aspen is normally the max for me and they are still small/light enough to roll into a vertical splitter or heave onto a standard splitter if there are only a few of them. But when I come across bigger stuff I quarter them, either with a sledge and wedge or by noodling. Once quartered you can lift onto a splitter or attack with most splitting tools. My saw doesn't like to noodle all that much due to clogging so I'd make a modified "noodling" clutch cover if I did a lot of it.

As long as you aren't cutting a lot of big wood, most mid sized saws will work fine with a longer bar and add a skip chain if necessary. You can cut pretty big wood with an 18" bar....


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## KiwiBro (Nov 3, 2014)

Everything I have seen or read about the horizontal Tempest or models like it (there are a few), has been quite positive, except for the price. Wouldn't be too hard to rig an auto-return to the rounds on the Tempest, if they haven't done that yet. If you do approach them, ask about their Vertical Sliver model also.

Sandhill Crane, how much wood are you splitting each year, how long have you got to split it, how much of what you are splitting are you selling, and how much do you want to spend?


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## haveawoody (Nov 3, 2014)

For me just a H/V splitter.
Not to bad to split up big rounds into splits that can then be lifted easy for finish splitting.
A crowbar and a brick to leaver heavy splits up enough to slide the splitter base under will make Horizontal splitting pretty easy and very easy on the back.
Takes a bit more effort than just vertical splitting but little or no lifting splitting up the big stuff sort of evens that out.


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## Sandhill Crane (Nov 3, 2014)

KiwiBro: Retired, so short on money long on time. But... 
Processed two 20 cord loads each of the last three years. 
Sold out six weeks ago, and still getting calls most days.
My equipment is a piggyback fork lift (Navigator 6500), old horizontal hydraulic splitter, a 28' built-rite conveyor, a SuperSplit HD, three saws (066, 357xp, 021), and a gmc 5500 w/12' flatbed. 
And what I've learned is... I need to do more volume, at least a hundred cord a year to make money. And need more than one supplier for logs.
Tempest has a used Silver V (?), and I have yet to hear back on an email to them. The ef-4 is $13,200. No resplitting with either one, however, the Silver V would work with the conveyor better and although slower, less physical work to get the job done.
Sunfish's Vermeer and splitter look good too!


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## blackdogon57 (Nov 3, 2014)

Not sure why your area would be different but around here winter is busy for logging and demand for logs is usually low in the dead of winter. Best time to get better pricing. Maybe you should try and broaden your supply network. I keep my yard plowed all winter and allow heavy trucks to come in whenever they please. Having said that I found my self in a similar situation this spring and ended up up with a lot a big stuff like this. Not fun to work with and processing time 
much slower.


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## Sawyer Rob (Nov 3, 2014)

My splitter is on the 3 point of my tractor, I lower it all the way down for the BIG boys, rolling them on and then raising the beam to split them... OR I load them on my wagon with my loader tractor and then roll them straight onto my splitters beam...

Either way works really well for a one person job...
SR


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## dancan (Nov 3, 2014)

Since you've got the Navigator and the old hydro unit it looks like you're set to me for the big rounds , build a platform level with the splitter beam , load it up with the Nav , bust it up with the hydro and then split it up with the SS .


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## KiwiBro (Nov 3, 2014)

Sandhill Crane said:


> KiwiBro: Retired, so short on money long on time. But...
> Processed two 20 cord loads each of the last three years.
> Sold out six weeks ago, and still getting calls most days.
> My equipment is a piggyback fork lift (Navigator 6500), old horizontal hydraulic splitter, a 28' built-rite conveyor, a SuperSplit HD, three saws (066, 357xp, 021), and a gmc 5500 w/12' flatbed.
> ...


Hmmm, the Sliver V was originally a custom model for a customer. Would be interesting if they could give you the details of the previous owner so you could ask them a few questions. For splitting big rounds it looks productive, if you have the wood and the room to store all the splits. 

Am not sure if 40 cords per year would be anywhere near enough to justify the price of the Sliver V. It could split that in the first week (or two, with 2 hr lunch breaks). But if you could get the bigger wood at a good price and plenty of it, could sell the firewood, and the Tempest isn't too crazy a price, it might be worth having a crack, even if it means flicking off the built-rite conveyor and SSHD to afford the tempest.


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## zogger (Nov 3, 2014)

dancan said:


> Since you've got the Navigator and the old hydro unit it looks like you're set to me for the big rounds , build a platform level with the splitter beam , load it up with the Nav , bust it up with the hydro and then split it up with the SS .



The platform idea is pretty good.

Old member Genesis had that with his indoor in the garage electric splitter operation, load up the platform level with the splitter. Just adjust to scale for huge stuff.


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## stratton (Nov 3, 2014)

sunfish said:


>





zogger said:


> The platform idea is pretty good.
> 
> Old member Genesis had that with his indoor in the garage electric splitter operation, load up the platform level with the splitter. Just adjust to scale for huge stuff.


Tempest
I have a splitfire splitter for bobcat. I to split almost all wood myself.Im 53 so for me it is a no brainer to save the back. Just ask toms trees, We get gigantic oak in our neck of the woods Luke


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## stratton (Nov 3, 2014)

stratton said:


> Tempest
> I have a splitfire splitter for bobcat. I to split almost all wood myself.Im 53 so for me it is a no brainer to save the back. Just ask toms trees, We get gigantic oak in our neck of the woods Luke


Also, i sell 200-300 crds per yr. for me it was well worth the investment for the splitfire. I think model 4290 sorry cant remember. unit cost$3000


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## tomtrees58 (Nov 3, 2014)

this works for me


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## AIM (Nov 3, 2014)

Whitespider said:


> Don't be afraid 0f BIG wood.
> Heck, I'm a one-man show and I work a lot of big wood... makes a bunch of firewood, most of it bark-free, without moving tools and equipment from site-to-site. I do it all with a 50cc saw (026), 16 and 20 inch bars, horizontal splitter, maul and wedges. It don't take special equipment... just a work plan that maximizes time efficiency using the equipment you have.
> *


And he does it all with ONE HAND...


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## sam-tip (Nov 4, 2014)

sunfish said:


>




This splitter works even better on a bigger machine. It is the same splitter just on a different machine. The extend time is fast with 4" cylinder at 34 gpm pumps. The return pump rate is 23 gpm. At 1400 rpm I don't burn much fuel. Great on rainy or snowy days. Just sit in the AC or turn up the heat.

Planning to make a time lapse video with the gopro mounted to the cab. I have a bunch of 48 inch monster rounds to split. Should make a great video.


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## jrr344 (Nov 4, 2014)

I just cut some 36" red oak and split it by hand in to manageable pieces to get on the splitter, no noodling, but if I did it all the time I might invest in a vertical splitter also.


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## JeffHK454 (Nov 4, 2014)

I think I would buy Kevin in Ohio's rig and call it done.


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## kyle1! (Nov 4, 2014)

JeffHK454 said:


> I think I would buy Kevin in Ohio's rig and call it done.


 I wonder what his unit would sell for?


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## Kevin in Ohio (Nov 4, 2014)

I didn't pick up from your original post that you were doing this as a business, I thought you were doing it for home use. My mistake there and changes a lot of things.

The problem I found with log lifts is you still have to roll them around TO the log lift. Smaller stuff, 20 - 34, it's not too bad, 34- and up it's about all you can do and hard for 2 guys if there are knot balls and such. We work up everything and most pieces are not the straight logs that a lot of guys here seem to be working with. For a true one man operation with no noodling or hand split to quarter there are only 2 options. the Bobcat type as shown or an overhead lift. 

I went with the lift as we cut where it lays, backing down the tree length, throwing wood to the side. You can load the truck as you go, loading from both sides once you move. We normally just haul another day and just fill the truck while we're there to save on trip. Your operation would be different. Pushing out the back is the most efficient but with big stuff you have to pull it back again. That is why I went with wedge on ram, plus the overhead lift doesn't swing back as it splits. Once chunked, you can swing the hanger away and work up the chunks to size that are sitting on the swing tables. Here are some pics of one being worked up.


















The Tempest I saw had outfeed out both sides, meaning 2 conveyors were needed. Very fast design but makes a lot of smalls if that is an issue for you. The Bob Cat type take a lot of room and you still have all the splits on the ground you have to work around. I guess you shove or pinch to pick up but that is a lot of time running a bigger motor to do a trivial job.

For how we work up wood I think I have the best option I could have. For you I just don't know. Mine goes a lot smoother and quicker with 2 guys and I'm not denying that. But, I CAN do it by myself if needed and that is what I was shooting for. The winch has a 30 ft reach to drag them to the splitter if needed. Normal thing with 2 guys is to get it down to where it is 1 man chunk size, Then the other guy starts winching/dragging another into position. Constant flow and that is what you want to get things done.

I don't believe most commercial guys noodle. It's wasted product and tends to make shorts when you do split them up. We all get chunks on the nastys but I'd be interested to here from any of you commercial guys on whether you noodle all your big ones. I'm just cutting for personal use and do not sell.


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## zogger (Nov 4, 2014)

Kevin in Ohio said:


> I didn't pick up from your original post that you were doing this as a business, I thought you were doing it for home use. My mistake there and changes a lot of things.
> 
> The problem I found with log lifts is you still have to roll them around TO the log lift. Smaller stuff, 20 - 34, it's not too bad, 34- and up it's about all you can do and hard for 2 guys if there are knot balls and such. We work up everything and most pieces are not the straight logs that a lot of guys here seem to be working with. For a true one man operation with no noodling or hand split to quarter there are only 2 options. the Bobcat type as shown or an overhead lift.
> 
> ...



Well, I was thinking what is on the farm here, and there *is* a way to speed up the scenario with a bobcat splitter. Pick the round up and set it inside a BIG loader bucket. Split right into the bucket, then dump it into a truck, or onto a chute feeding the conveyor, etc.


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## Kevin in Ohio (Nov 4, 2014)

zogger said:


> Well, I was thinking what is on the farm here, and there *is* a way to speed up the scenario with a bobcat splitter. Pick the round up and set it inside a BIG loader bucket. Split right into the bucket, then dump it into a truck, or onto a chute feeding the conveyor, etc.



That is why I always stress what works great for one, will not for another. I don't have a Bobcat, big bucketed loader, conveyor, etc so speeding up that way is out of reach for me. I do not know what he has for equipment either so it's always a catch 22. I just try to give others ideas as that is what I went through before deciding what would be best for our situation. I hope I don't come across as "my way or the highway", just trying to explain WHY it works well for us.

I can see how your system would work well with what you have.

I guess you can go all out with one of these.



Cord King seems to have the best ones I've seen as far as speed goes. Lots of smalls but man are they flying. Wonder how knotty stuff does?


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## zogger (Nov 4, 2014)

Kevin in Ohio said:


> That is why I always stress what works great for one, will not for another. I don't have a Bobcat, big bucketed loader, conveyor, etc so speeding up that way is out of reach for me. I do not know what he has for equipment either so it's always a catch 22. I just try to give others ideas as that is what I went through before deciding what would be best for our situation. I hope I don't come across as "my way or the highway", just trying to explain WHY it works well for us.
> 
> I can see how your system would work well with what you have.
> 
> ...




Oh, I was just theoretically speaking on speeding up things with a bobcat splitter. I could do huge mass quantities with what equipment is here, but am limited to using my hands a saw a tractor and a fiskars. Boss has bobcats (but no attached splitter) and a couple big loaders..big ones, not baby ones, and several different conveyors laying around unused and other stuff, say a near new linkbelt big excavator.. There is just this side enough to be a big full time wood biz here, but..ain't mine to use for that. 

What you have is fantastic!


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## 066blaster (Nov 4, 2014)

This works pretty goodTo quarter them. I've been doing more noodling since I broke my booger hook though


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## woodchuck357 (Nov 4, 2014)

Not that commercial splitter folks will care, but one of the advantages of Armstrong splitting is big diameter rounds just mean less overall work.


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## Full Chisel (Nov 4, 2014)

Whitespider said:


> Don't be afraid 0f BIG wood.
> Heck, I'm a one-man show and I work a lot of big wood... makes a bunch of firewood, most of it bark-free, without moving tools and equipment from site-to-site. I do it all with a 50cc saw (026), 16 and 20 inch bars, horizontal splitter, maul and wedges. It don't take special equipment... just a work plan that maximizes time efficiency using the equipment you have.
> *



This is my typical game plan for big fatty rounds. I carry a couple beater hatchets and small sledge to start the split along the grain, a couple wedges to drive in the split once it opens up and a 6lb maul to finish the gnarly ones off...either by wailing on it or prying it open with the handle. Usually have to quarter the big boys because I typically work solo and I'm not a big gorilla like some guys, I weigh 175 soaking wet. I kinda like working with the big stuff though, it's satisfying to break the big rounds open by hand and usually the wood is primo and the splits are clean. But I'm a lowly firewood hack, this isn't an efficient or easy way to go about gathering wood to process into firewood. An investment in heavy equipment is a must for long term success and rapid turnaround if you are working with big wood on a regular basis...IMO.


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## turnkey4099 (Nov 5, 2014)

lindnova said:


> I noodle very large rounds and split vertical to size, then finish splits horizontal. If you have a big enough saw noodling is the way to go. With the big rounds you end up with nice clean wood. Seems like a lot of work, but you end up with a lot of nice wood per round.
> 
> I always take the big pieces at clearing sites. Other guys think I am nuts, but noodling the pieces to manageable sizes is fine on my back.



"big enough saw"??? Any saw that will handle a 20" bar is 'big enough' to noodle any round less than about 18" long. I have noodled 4' x 16" rounds with an MS310 and sometimes even a Johnnyred 625.

Harry K


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## lindnova (Nov 5, 2014)

I have done a lot of noodling with my MS260 and 18" bar. It works if you have to.


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## haveawoody (Nov 6, 2014)

I think the real question here is budget and quantity of big rounds.
Things get more efficient with more money and they also cut into production costs at about the same rate. 
With just a H/V splitter a crowbar, a brick and handcart a 1 man team splitting up big rounds can be done pretty efficiently.
With a 10k wood processor a bobcat and 1 man the same work is done much faster and little grunt power.


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## haveawoody (Nov 6, 2014)

Harry K,

LOL I have noodled with a 36" bar.
It sure did noodle fast, sure made the job fun.

Typical for me though is a 20" bar to noodle on the very rare times I cant split big rounds on site.


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## jrr344 (Nov 6, 2014)

AIM said:


> And he does it all with ONE HAND...


 It can't be to big then.


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## Sandhill Crane (Nov 6, 2014)

Rain day today. 
Lots of great suggestions.
Lots of price range.
I have worked large stuff. Used a log arch and quad for moving. Then cut the depth of the bar and split with wedges for halving rounds. Loaded in racks near splitter and picked away at it till it was done.
I love using tables to keep work elevated, from cutting, staging, splitting and even stacking I made a hopper out of scaffold. 
The hay wagon looks simple, affordable, and would work with my hydraulic splitter and fork lift.
I will probably continue this way for a year, doing it by hand, noodling or whatever, as many have suggested. That will give me time to see what kind of steady log supply I can develope. 
Then maybe... a skid steer w/inverted splitter.
Thanks to everyone who contributed...


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## KiwiBro (Nov 6, 2014)

Did you hear back from tempest?


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## c5rulz (Nov 6, 2014)

I deal with a lot of logs that are cut offs from log landings. Routinely they are in the 20-28" range. When the boys are working they load my trailer with the forwarder. When they aren't I cut the rounds, roll them up the ramp into my trailer, roll them off and split vertically if they can't be picked up, into small enough pieces that can be. Then finish horizontally. Large wood makes a lot of splits in a hurry.

Typical product:


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## Sandhill Crane (Nov 6, 2014)

KiwiBro
I did not hear from Tempest. I could have called and did not either. Looked around YouTube a bit and found another video and comments.
It was posted two years ago and offered new for $22,000. (Sliver V model) Seems like a lot...


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## lindnova (Nov 6, 2014)

c5rulz said:


> I deal with a lot of logs that are cut offs from log landings. Routinely they are in the 20-28" range. When the boys are working they load my trailer with the forwarder. When they aren't I cut the rounds, roll them up the ramp into my trailer, roll them off and split vertically if they can't be picked up, into small enough pieces that can be. Then finish horizontally. Large wood makes a lot of splits in a hurry.
> 
> Typical product:


That is one he!! of a load for that trailer!


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## c5rulz (Nov 6, 2014)

lindnova said:


> That is one he!! of a load for that trailer!


 

Yes it was. I only hauled .5 miles to my house. When the boys have the log forwarder, it's just too easy to say "one more".


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## KiwiBro (Nov 6, 2014)

Sandhill Crane said:


> It was posted two years ago and offered new for $22,000.


Ouch


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## cantoo (Nov 6, 2014)

I have lots of toys to handle any size wood. Most efficient for me is 12 to 20" ash. From standing trees to splits piled off my conveyor this is the most productive for me and my body. Bigger wood is too hard on my body, smaller wood is also hard on my body, you know jumping off the tractor to hook onto small logs, cutting for an hour to only add up to a little pile etc. The bush I'm cutting in now only has trees up to about 24" so I'm pretty productive here. I've been leaving the 10" and under stuff for winter when the extra physical work will keep me warm. And I can use the buzz saw on the smaller stuff.
Limb wood pics.




Bigger stuff will add up fast. This load might be poplar but the ash is the same size.


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## KiwiBro (Nov 6, 2014)

Lov'n that burl!


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## cantoo (Nov 6, 2014)

Kiwi, I forgot all about that burl, I noticed it in the pics before but keep forgetting to look for it in the bush. There are some smaller ones that I did look at.


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## tla100 (Nov 6, 2014)

Rarely noodle. If i do it is a bulky crotch. I split in vertical position 90% of the time. Can push the big rounds close to splitter with skidloader or just move splitter, which is always hooked up to 4 wheeler and can back in about anywhere I need. Usually pop the bigs into 3-4 manageable chunks and roll them to the side. Lifting and wrangling the big rounds on the splitter is a waste of time in my opinion. That's just me. I have debated on building a log cradle for splitting horizontal but feel it would be in way when vertical. Good back and knees yet....

I did just pick up a hayrack trailer that I will only use to haul wood. May split off that but have too much wood on the ground already.

Skidsteer splitter seems a touch cumbersome, but have thought about building one to try, can always sell. Plus putting hours/wear and tear and burning a lot more diesel fuel on a 58 hp engine versus gas in a 6.5 hp....

I do like big wood just for the fact it has minimal bark, and can make a big pile in a hurry as you are continuously splitting,


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## mga (Nov 7, 2014)

if i can't lift them myself, i'll split them by hand since i'm always working alone.

still use a wedge and sledge hammer to bust them in half then throw them on the splitter.

keeps ya humble and in shape.


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## muddstopper (Nov 7, 2014)

Only one way to be efficient on big wood. Big cyl, more oil, long thin knife, hydraulicly adjustable, multiple split wedge, and a lift to put those big rounds on the splitter frame. I have found that the narrow knive wedges will slice thru big rounds easier and faster than a wide wedge. A long tall wedge will cut those large dia rounds in half where as a short wedge, wide or narrow, can leave a large round only half split. Having a boom with a small winch mounted , I can lift pretty much any size round I want on my splitter, without having to worry about breaking my back. My wedge is 24" tall fully extended and I seldom have a round that is half split and still hinged an having to be turned to finish the first split thru it. With the 4 wings added to make it a 6way wedge, I usually end up with 6 large pieces of wood with just one pass. I can then stack those 6 pieces back on the splitter, three pieces at a time, that I can now actually pickup by hand, and make one more pass and have wood ready for the stove. As for noodleing, take a big saw and by the time you standup the round, crank up the saw, cut the round in half, then still have to put on the splitter to finish processing, I can have several large rounds already split. If your only processing wood for personal use, noddle with your saw and forget the big splitter. If your splitting for sale, forget noddleing, get something to get the job done. JMHO


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## muddstopper (Nov 7, 2014)

Zeus103363 said:


> I love it all big and small!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This round would be lifted by my boom, knot turned up and the bottom half split 6ways then the knot half lowered back on the splitter and split 6 ways, giving 12 pieces of wood in less than a minute. The 12 splits would be then placed back on the splitter, two and 3 pieces at a time, and processed down to 24splits. Probably take 3 min total to process.


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## 066blaster (Nov 7, 2014)

This works too.


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## Sandhill Crane (Nov 7, 2014)

With all these posts the gears have been turning.
Mostly, my equipment loan balance is down, three more months to payoff. The plan is to pay it off and work with what I have for the next year.
-I have been checking out skid steers on line. It would be a multifunctional piece of equipment with forks, a bucket, and splitter. I like this option, but do not know the first thing about skid steers or what to look for. Maintenance on my truck set me back and I do not want to repeat that with a skid steer.
-Priced the Built-Rite 24 hpws with log lift, and it's 35 hp diesel option. I think the first one was $12,775. but not sure. $12,000 plus anyway. The diesel w/lift weighed in at $15,775. and looks like it would split anything, period. But then you still need to re-split the splits.
-I also called PowerSplit International to price the PowerBuggy, a vertical splitter, table, and log lift. They don't answer. Leave message/info and they will mail a cd and prices, or call. Did not leave my number. A year ago it was ten to eleven thousand with the lift.
-Also looked at CRD Metalworks. Nice web site, with prices! But I can not get processor size logs so... 
-back to basics, which might be a heavy duty hay wagon and noodling big rounds. Not ideal, but neither have been the loan payments.
-a true processor does seem the way to up production. Just not there yet...
Where do I find a good used hay wagon?


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## jrider (Nov 7, 2014)

How many cords a year do you process?


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## esshup (Nov 7, 2014)

066blaster said:


> View attachment 378055
> This works too.


 That's the way I do the big ones, say up to 30" or so. Larger ones I noodle to a manageable size before they hit the splitter. Basically if I can pick up 1/2 of the round, it gets split like is in the picture.


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## Sandhill Crane (Nov 8, 2014)

jrider: 30 cord plus per year. I bought two 20 cord loads, each of the last three years, processed yields 30 cord plus stacked.


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## stratton (Nov 8, 2014)

Buy a supersplit and call it a day.....
I sell 200-300 crds a yr. If i had those trailor loads i wouldnt there would be need for hydrolics.Come to ct... Oak=hydrolics.


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## Whitespider (Nov 8, 2014)

I "noodle" very little; in my mind it wastes time, fuel and firewood... not to mention the extra wear 'n' tear on the saw and cuttin' chain. About the only thing I "noodle" all the way through is big elm rounds.

Rounds in the 25 inch range I can put onto my horizontal splitter with out much effort... the splitter beam is low (below knee level), so it's sort'a like a hook, jerk, roll and lift thing. And, like I've mentioned before, the splitter is so light and easy to move, I near never move rounds to it... I roll the splitter to the next round using one hand. Heck, on smooth ground I can use one finger.

When the rounds approach 30 inches I'll halve them... I can "flop" the halves on the splitter even easier than what I described above. The first thing I do is cut the whole log to firebox length; I walk down one side of it making the cuts, then walk down the other side making the finish cuts using bucking wedges. It ain't a problem bucking a 40 inch log with 20 inch bar that way... the truth is, you can do a little bigger than 40 inches, that little bit of wood in the center usually breaks. If, for example, the log is laying north-south, I alternate rolling the rounds a few inches east and west as I make the finish cuts. Then I walk down the line of rounds and "noodle" a short cut into all them... now I'm done with the saw. Next comes the splitting wedge and 8# maul; I set the wedge in the "noodle" cut and whack it hard with the blunt side of the maul head... occasionally I have to whack it twice. If the round is really big, say something over 35 inches, I'll quarter the halves with a couple swings using the sharp side. Then, pick up the wedge and turn to the next round. Seriously, doing it that way, the halving, even quartering of big rounds is the fastest part of turning big wood into little wood... a whole lot faster than "noodling" them all the way through. Finally, I roll the splitter up to the halves (or quarters) and toss the splits in the trailer as I work.
*


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## Sandhill Crane (Nov 8, 2014)

Stratton: That's the rub, I ordered four more loads, but can not get them till June 2015. So much for seasoning. 
I bought a SuperSplit HD this past spring and love it, but it will not do big wood from tree service without down sizing it first.
Whitespider's way works well. Once halved, quartering if necessary, is usually just one more hit and they pop. It has been a few years, and seems a lot of work compared to smaller stuff. I did three cord this way at the time.


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## KiwiBro (Nov 8, 2014)

Sandhill,

How confident are you of a reasonable supply of tree service wood? Enough to spend a little time and money gearing up for it?

Are you collecting it, providing a set dump area at your place for them to come and go as they please, or both?
If a dump area, is this right where you will be processing or would you have to move the wood to the processing area?
If a dump area, will you be around to clear it if they fill it faster and then start dumping wherever?
Will you have to be around for them to access the dump area or could they come and go as they please?
Is your gear/property secure?
Are you going to limit the wood types they can dump there? Or are you confident you can sell it either as mixed firewood or separated out into individual wood types?

Will it be all weather, all season access for the tree services to dump wood there?
How will you be delivering to customers or are they collecting or both?
I assume it has to be stacked wood only and if so, do you have any preference between stacking straight off the splitter or piling and seasoning then stacking?
Will you always be processing in that one area and have enough nearby room for 100 cords of firewood if it were all processed?
I'm thinking if you can limit the tree service dumping area to one location, right alongside where you are processing, then why not drive or drill a pole alongside, put a pulley up the top, build a ramp (make it very splayed at the bottom to encompass the full range of dumping locations of the rounds, and with 1/2' or 1' sides) up to and a large bucking/splitting table around, it, put a winch with tongs on it, get a relatively cheap hydro to bust the big rounds down to SS size, park your SS just downstream or side stream from the hydro.

An extension of this is to sell off the SS and put the $ towards a better hydro with slip on or hydro-adjustable, 4/5/6-way wedge to do all with the one splitter, but given the sorts of cordwood/pulp wood you are also ordering, if I could afford it I'd also be modding the SSHD or selling it to get the SSSE and a slip-on 4-way wedge.


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## stratton (Nov 9, 2014)

KiwiBro said:


> Sandhill,
> 
> How confident are you of a reasonable supply of tree service wood? Enough to spend a little time and money gearing up for it?
> 
> ...


Sandhill,
i

I really love your set up, looks very clean and organized.Couple of questions:

1.How many cords total do you sell a yr
2. $ of each cd 
3. Can you get a ton more from tree service.


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## Sandhill Crane (Nov 9, 2014)

Selling 30 plus cord a year at $225. plus delivery. As posted earlier I need to do a hundred plus or fold up. 
Tree service wood would be a much cheaper supply. Availability would be seasonal but quicker also.
I like to, and have to, run a clean business as I am zoned residential. Across the road is zoned farm land, although it has not been farmed in a hundred years and is now woodland with houses and subdivisions beginning to pop up again.


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## muddstopper (Nov 9, 2014)

I think a SS is about the fastest way to process small wood. Speed isnt everything. If you have to resplit those small, or even big, rounds several times, have you really gained any speed? With that said, I dont like handling rounds several times to make a dozen splits. Only way I see to reduce the extra handling is Hydraulics and multisplit wedges. Problem with multisplit wedges is all the splinters. Splinters makes good kindling, throw a sack full on each load for the buyer and it makes them happy. It takes more tonnage for multisplits in a single pass. Store bought splitters are grossly over rated, I dont know how they come up with their numbers, but they are rated about 25% higher than actual tonnage. Build your own, build it strong and get'er done.

A popular brand of splitters rates theirs at 37tons. It has a 5in cylinder and 3500psi 16gpm. Real world numbers would put that splitter at just over 34ton. The advertised 3500psi number Is suspect also. Quality 16gpm pumps are only rated at 3000psi and their in stock replacement pumps are also rated at 3000psi. 5in bore @3000psi is just over 29tons. About 22% under the advertised 37ton rating.


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## Husqavarna Guy (Nov 9, 2014)

muddstopper said:


> I think a SS is about the fastest way to process small wood. Speed isnt everything. If you have to resplit those small, or even big, rounds several times, have you really gained any speed? With that said, I dont like handling rounds several times to make a dozen splits. Only way I see to reduce the extra handling is Hydraulics and multisplit wedges. Problem with multisplit wedges is all the splinters. Splinters makes good kindling, throw a sack full on each load for the buyer and it makes them happy. It takes more tonnage for multisplits in a single pass. Store bought splitters are grossly over rated, I dont know how they come up with their numbers, but they are rated about 25% higher than actual tonnage. Build your own, build it strong and get'er done.
> 
> A popular brand of splitters rates theirs at 37tons. It has a 5in cylinder and 3500psi 16gpm. Real world numbers would put that splitter at just over 34ton. The advertised 3500psi number Is suspect also. Quality 16gpm pumps are only rated at 3000psi and their in stock replacement pumps are also rated at 3000psi. 5in bore @3000psi is just over 29tons. About 22% under the advertised 37ton rating.



Hey muddstopper how do you calculate tonagge? I have a 4 inch cylinder and 11 gpm pump at 3000 psi. Thanks


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## muddstopper (Nov 9, 2014)

You want the actual math, or just a calculator. http://www.surpluscenter.com/Tech-Help/Hydraulics/Calculators/Force-Speed/ or actual math, 
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/hydraulic-force-calculator-d_1369.html
4inx3000psi=37,699 push force. Rod dia plays a part in how much it will pull. The dia of the rod takes away from the surface area of the piston upon retraction.
4in by 3000psi =37,699lbs or 18.85 tons


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## KiwiBro (Nov 9, 2014)

Zoned residential and able to process 100 cord? Or will people start complaining about the noise and trucks?


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## Sandhill Crane (Nov 9, 2014)

My closest neighbor is more than an 1/8 mile away across the street through the woods, and zoned farm land. They are new to the place this summer and have thirty acres. No one else close. Running a business is legal with a variance.


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## KiwiBro (Nov 15, 2014)




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## zogger (Nov 15, 2014)

It certainly busted up that big log! 

I see these screw type splitters advertised, also saw one for sale used on my local craigslist, an electric motor driven one mounted on a table with legs.

They certainly look easier to make over a hydraulic or kinetic (the small ones anyway)

Never seen nor used one though*, no idea if they are practical or not. That skidsteer one looked wicked.

*I kinda sorta remember one that was supposed to mount to a truck axle after you jacked the truck up in the olden days, but not running or attached.


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## Full Chisel (Nov 15, 2014)

KiwiBro said:


>




That's fantastic. That would be supurb for making split rail fences or rough finished beams in a hurry!


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## KiwiBro (Nov 15, 2014)

Have been trying to find a video of this impact wrench variant but it alludes me:
http://www.woodsplitter.net/






Here's an old farmshow mag article:
http://www.farmshow.com/a_article.php?aid=18387


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## KiwiBro (Nov 15, 2014)

Full Chisel said:


> That's fantastic. That would be supurb for making split rail fences or rough finished beams in a hurry!


Imagine that in some reasonably straight grained Cedar poles split into posts. Or even on some of the stuff that's not perfectly straight grained or comes out a bit furry. The furry stuff could, if anyone wanted to, be planed down roughly smooth with a log wizard:


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## angelo c (Nov 16, 2014)

Sand hill...
We can do 5-7 cords a day of tree service cast offs with a saw and three laborors. That's 30 cords in a week. All with a TW6 and a monkey moron Tsc hydro if an extra guy shows up. Lots of the stuff is 30-40" big bad oak nasties. It works out somewhat better paying the guys because my buddy with the tree service often can't work because the site is too wet or its raining...so we put the guys to work on the pile. And he doesn't have to pay to dump the stuff between 50-100$ a load to recycler. Plus the time driving, weighing in tare tickets and fuel to the recycler. I like running the heck out of a big saw I just rebuilt for some noodles...at home I run my wedge/sledge and SS because it's just me and I do it for ***** and grins. ...and to break in a few saws I just rebuilt...yea seeing a trend ? There is always a saw that needs rebuilding/ breakin when you hang around tree service guys. Big or small, just work it and move along...the entire processing has to be thought out...it's not just the splitting that slows things down


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## jasult (Nov 16, 2014)

another Skid steer user but I have made a 2 in 1 splitter, I split monsters from in cab
When I am done with monsters I use the upper splitter for trimming down to size with 4 way


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## Mike from Maine (Nov 16, 2014)

This would be a good way to deal with dump truck loads of tree service wood.


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## Sandhill Crane (Nov 16, 2014)

KISS seems to be the way to go for now. 
Love to see the different ways everyone does stuff. 
I missed out on a processor this week. I was too slow to commit.. And if I got it, was not sure I could keep it fed. Wood is getting harder to get. 

The skid steer and cone looks really good, as does Jasult's set up with a smart looking table build that catches the big splits. 

Skid steers: track or tire units? Cone splitter (HF 200) needs 16 - 39 gpm at 2,600 - 3,400 psi. How does that translate to skid steer size?


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## Sandhill Crane (Nov 16, 2014)

Okay, so here is a long range plan. A skid steer with the U S Pride Products cone splitter for the big odd stuff in log length, a Hahn 160 attachment for processing (as described by woodman 6666 in another thread on processors), and a tine/grapple attachment for loading the truck. I've got some equipment to sell...


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## Mike from Maine (Nov 16, 2014)

You've got some wood to sell to pay for that.


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## TC262 (Nov 18, 2014)

I was moving some wood around today and just staged one to show ya what I do. That's 30" dia oak. I set them on with the forks and quarter it to sizes I can handle than use the smaller splitter. Just get a big beam, big wedge, and big ram and build it as low to the ground as possible. Who cares if it's slow your just getting them down to super split size. Seems to me like it would be the most cost effective solution to your problem.


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## jrider (Nov 18, 2014)

TC262 said:


> View attachment 380422
> View attachment 380423
> 
> I was moving some wood around today and just staged one to show ya what I do. That's 30" dia oak. I set them on with the forks and quarter it to sizes I can handle than use the smaller splitter. Just get a big beam, big wedge, and big ram and build it as low to the ground as possible. Who cares if it's slow your just getting them down to super split size. Seems to me like it would be the most cost effective solution to your problem.


 
I do this same method with the real big ones and even though it's effective, it sure isn't efficient.


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## muddstopper (Nov 19, 2014)

TC262 said:


> View attachment 380422
> View attachment 380423
> 
> I was moving some wood around today and just staged one to show ya what I do. That's 30" dia oak. I set them on with the forks and quarter it to sizes I can handle than use the smaller splitter. * Just get a big beam, big wedge, and big ram and build it as low to the ground as possible*. Who cares if it's slow your just getting them down to super split size. Seems to me like it would be the most cost effective solution to your problem.



Big beam, big ram, multisplit wedge and forget double handleing. I use a boom and winch to load large rounds. I can hookup and drag a load from 2oft by myself, or about 50 ft is someone runs the control cable.


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## KiwiBro (Nov 19, 2014)

muddstopper said:


> Big beam, big ram, multisplit wedge and forget double handleing. I use a boom and winch to load large rounds. I can hookup and drag a load from 2oft by myself, or about 50 ft is someone runs the control cable.


Each situation is different though and we only have to scratch the surface to see that. It was where I was going with all my questions a while back which Sandhill didn't or only very partially answered. What's the absolute best option for one outfit could be utterly useless for another.

Tongs and winch to bucking station (but what for smaller stuff - stone bucket on tractor FEL, bucket on forks, wheelbarrow, arms and legs, hurl it, etc and into the same big splitter or a different one), buck (big enough saw and bar to not have to come at it from the other side, but how to handle the smaller stuff or oddball tree-service crazies, etc, without it bouncing around), roll into splitter chamber (are we splitting one ring or is the ram long as well as wide and can the chamber handle lots of small stuff too without spewing projectiles all over the place when the load comes on), push through a massive box wedge that splits to exact finished sizes in one go, and into what - a conveyor or straight into a bark/scrag separating chamber (the downside to big, handle-the-wood-once wedges is getting smothered in trash/scrag/bark if not clearing it out regularly), and then into what? Piles, bags, crates, piles and then handled again to stack, stacked (one employee to stack and such like or is the splitter not going to be fed and run while manually stacking the firewood), straight into delivery truck, or what? Splitting green or seasoned? Selling as mixed or specific species (separating out and doing runs of that or just however it comes in, or)?

Point being, GIGO (garbage in, garbage out) when it comes to such decision making processes. The less we know of the specific situation, the less chance the optimal outcome can be reached.

Notwithstanding the interesting ideas, this thread is like trying to nail jelly to a tree.


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## muddstopper (Nov 20, 2014)

Kiwi, You pretty much hit the nail on the head, no such thing as one size fits all. In my situation, I am a one man band. I dont have skid steers, tractors or others to bring rounds to my splitter. I usually get odd ball lengths of bigger size wood. I take my dump trailer to the log landing and they throw the wood on the trailer, using their knuckelboom. I dump in a pile at the house and work it up when I can. I have found the boom/ with winch works well for my back. I can pick up a log by one end to get it off the ground for sawing. I can winch scattered logs up to the splitter so I dont have to walk back and forth dragging the winch cable to hook the next round. Since I usually get cull wood from log landing, its usually knotty, forked and big. Using what I have, I can work that wood up pretty fast and with little effort. The 6way adjustable wedge does leave me with wood to resplit and it does leave me lots of splinters. It all burns in my stove and the smalls make starting a fire or rekindleing a fire pretty easy. If I have a crowd around, I can load the smaller stuff by hand faster than with the boom. I can back the dump trailer under the splitter wedge and load the splits as they are processed, by letting the ram push the wood into the trailer, Haul it to the wood shed and stack off the trailer. I am satisfied with my setup for now, but when I finish my processor, the splitter may get retired.


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## tla100 (Nov 21, 2014)

New 12" tall wedge. Breaking it in last nite. I need to weld a couple pieces of angle to keep wood from hitting pin on cylinder. The 4 way will slide on wedge. Old wedge is last picture. Need to figure out a new log stripper also. 

Wedge is 1 1/2" thick. Between plate and I-Beam it is white HDPE plastic, no more metal on metal. Then spacer that is thickness of I-Beam, then more HDPE under I-Beam and finally another piece of 1/2" steel under. Turned out well, just a few more tweaks and I may build a new one.....heh


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