# Taking the plunge



## Farmertan (Aug 28, 2013)

Well, I've finally done it. I submitted my letter of resignation and this will be my last year as a teacher before embarking on my third career as an arborist. I know tree biology, id, insects and all that from my education. I'm a good rock climber and have a good understanding (and experience) with ropework, so I'm going to slowly work myself into climbing, but don't really expect to do a whole lot of that for the first year or two. I'm taking a course through my CT Cooperative Extension to prepare me for the exam (pesticide, safety and other regs) and I'll take the exam in December. Rather than start cold, I'm teaming with a friend who owns a successful landscape company but does not have a licensed applicator or arborist on staff, so he presently farms out all of that work. He has agreed to take me on and provide capital for application equipment and an aerial lift (probably a Nifty), because it is his company we are expanding. My goal is to split from him in about 5 years and go out on my own once I have acquired more experience and capital. In the meantime, I'll also be helping him with plowing contracts, signing up for substitute teaching in case the winter gets too slow, and having my wife carry the benefits. I'm pretty excited about this upcoming new career, and really, really happy about being able to work outdoors again after 11 years teaching science. Wish me luck!


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## jefflovstrom (Aug 28, 2013)

Farmertan said:


> Well, I've finally done it. I submitted my letter of resignation and this will be my last year as a teacher before embarking on my third career as an arborist. I know tree biology, id, insects and all that from my education. I'm a good rock climber and have a good understanding (and experience) with ropework, so I'm going to slowly work myself into climbing, but don't really expect to do a whole lot of that for the first year or two. I'm taking a course through my CT Cooperative Extension to prepare me for the exam (pesticide, safety and other regs) and I'll take the exam in December. Rather than start cold, I'm teaming with a friend who owns a successful landscape company but does not have a licensed applicator or arborist on staff, so he presently farms out all of that work. He has agreed to take me on and provide capital for application equipment and an aerial lift (probably a Nifty), because it is his company we are expanding. My goal is to split from him in about 5 years and go out on my own once I have acquired more experience and capital. In the meantime, I'll also be helping him with plowing contracts, signing up for substitute teaching in case the winter gets too slow, and having my wife carry the benefits. I'm pretty excited about this upcoming new career, and really, really happy about being able to work outdoors again after 11 years teaching science. Wish me luck!



Keep us posted.
Jeff :msp_biggrin:


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## TheJollyLogger (Aug 28, 2013)

Is that science teacher's job available? I was thinking of changing careers too. I mean, how hard can it be?


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## jefflovstrom (Aug 28, 2013)

TheJollyLogger said:


> Is that science teacher's job available? I was thinking of changing careers too. I mean, how hard can it be?



Hey Jolly Jeff,, this guy could be the FTA opposite.
Jeff ,,never Grumpy.


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## TheJollyLogger (Aug 28, 2013)

I know you're not. How could you be? You live in San Diego, where the weather's always great and the women have all their teeth!


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## bustedup (Aug 28, 2013)

Best of luck to ya...............however ya might be better sticking to regular teacher pay check .....the tree/arb/logging world a hard one .............not to mention a whole lot more dangerous


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## Pelorus (Aug 28, 2013)

As a teacher, don't you have weekends and summers off? And a half decent pension plan, and benefits, like sick days off with pay, etc, etc, etc?
I think you have gone stark raving bonkers, but that is just my opinion.


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## twochains (Aug 28, 2013)

opcorn: 







i've always wanted to do that! pftt


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## Frank Boyer (Aug 28, 2013)

I TAUGHT FOR 32 YEARS AND FINALLY RETIRED. I did contracting from Easter to Thanksgiving. Ran heavy equipment on weekends during school time and full time all summer. Keep the teaching job and when the arborist job gets to busy, THEN think about leaving teaching. After 50 you aren't superman any more. After 60 your as+ is whipped most of the time. I had to make a choice in my 50's and I'm very glad that I stayed with teaching.


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## sgreanbeans (Aug 29, 2013)

I think I would be a awesome shop teacher. "You go get a trash bag, You give me your pot lighter and you go get the acetylene............ going to show you how to make some noise" "It will be on the test"


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## derwoodii (Aug 29, 2013)

> after 11 years teaching science. Wish me luck!



science huh so what is the speed of gravity acceleration? and then how fast will you be going from 60 feet :msp_rolleyes:

I's been a tree hack for 30 years but as of late i been teachin billy lids a few tricks i have learnt.
It actually great fun and quite the task to chew it and re spew it in manner that others can follow.

Enjoy you career change looks like a good plan so welcome to the joys of trees sweat thrills n labor and you may even make some money


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## Guran (Aug 29, 2013)

Farmer; I'll keep my fingers crossed for you. 
And like grump.... eeeehh.. Jeff said; please keep us posted. I would really like to to hear how are doing with your new career.
Good luck!
Göran


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## Zale (Aug 29, 2013)

Good luck. One question I have is who is going to teach you to climb? I would put off on buying the lift until you are comfortable climbing. Lifts will make you lazy though they do have their uses. Another thing to consider is just running a PHC program and leave the big nasty stuff to the subs. PHC will always have a better gross margin than tree work.


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## Farmertan (Aug 29, 2013)

Jl and Pelorus: How hard can it be? Weekends and summers off, decent paycheck? Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! I didn't mention that I'm at a private school. Weekends? That's really funny.

Zale, I can climb a rope (using prusiks, should be a bit easier with ascenders), a skill I practiced out on the rocks and even a little in the trees in my backyard. I'm good with ropework, but will need more practice with rigging, as I've never done the big wall Yosemite type of climbing.

The arborist license is only one aspect of it. I'll also be an applicator, and plan to get my turf and ornamentals, right of way, and tick and mosquito control certs too. I don't expect to be lacking too much for good work. If it does get slow, like wintertime with no snow, I'll just substitute teach for $100/day. Better than nothing, and no papers to grade. Worse comes to worse, I'll pick up some side jobs doing auto/truck repair (my first career).

Thanks for all the support (and reality checks) guys! I'll definitely keep you posted.


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## Farmertan (Aug 29, 2013)

Not to mention how nice it'll be to work with the trees and not get calls and emails from their parents asking why they're not the best trees in the state. :msp_biggrin:


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## bustedup (Aug 29, 2013)

I do admire your drive etc.......however me thinks ya gonna get a bit of a jolt lol..........climbing for fun juss a bit different than when ya climbing and cutting ie time is money 


sorry to be negative but me think ya be way better placed to stick where ya at esp in this uncertain economy


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## pdqdl (Aug 29, 2013)

I think your plan is fine. Do what you like to do in life.

Abandon the lift expense. Let your revenue stream and work load pay for the equipment you need. Nothing sours a business relationship like the "money partner" spending all his profits on equipment payments that are not generating income.

I had a cheap, reliable bucket truck many years ago. I sold it because I wasn't really using it enough to pay for the insurance. At least 1/2 of your aerial opportunities won't allow the use of a lift, and the remaining work is nearly always "climbable" anyway. _My next truck, however, is going to be a good forestry unit with an independent hydraulic power source._


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## Pelorus (Aug 29, 2013)

Farmertan said:


> Jl and Pelorus: How hard can it be? Weekends and summers off, decent paycheck? Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! I didn't mention that I'm at a private school. Weekends? That's really funny.
> 
> Thanks for all the support (and reality checks) guys! I'll definitely keep you posted.




Ahhhhh.......Private school. That probably ruled out just taking a leave of absence / sabbatical.
Last full time job I had while building my part-time tree biz into a full time gig, was running a debarker & loader at a sawmill. Would work (after work, lol) till dark most evenings, weekends, whatever it took. No family life, but it made the final career transition a lot easier, and by then I had acquired a lot of contacts and equipment.
Good luck to you, and all the best. At age 52 I feel like I've been in a car wreck by days end (most days), so I still think you're nuts!


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## Farmertan (Aug 29, 2013)

Nuts, but happy!


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## treeclimber101 (Aug 29, 2013)

Good luck In your quest for many aches from pulled muscles ,bad knees , bad hips and tendentious ! Rock climbing is for fun ......... spend 5/6 hours a day 4 days a week in a tree and the fun grinds to a screeching halt . Good luck with it though .... And I forgot about the stitches , at some point you may wanna take a sutchering class to save time in the ER waiting room


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## Gologit (Aug 29, 2013)

You guys forgot to mention the most dangerous aspect of tree work, logger or arborist either one.

You can starve to death.


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## bustedup (Aug 29, 2013)

Gologit said:


> You guys forgot to mention the most dangerous aspect of tree work, logger or arborist either one.
> 
> You can starve to death.



well said


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## bustedup (Aug 29, 2013)

Another thing .........ya might find even tho at the mo you wanna do the job .....after a few hard days ya might not like it..........or it might not like you


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## treeslayer2003 (Aug 29, 2013)

Gologit said:


> You guys forgot to mention the most dangerous aspect of tree work, logger or arborist either one.
> 
> You can starve to death.



really well said.


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## TheJollyLogger (Aug 29, 2013)

This industry is filled with two kinds of guys, guys tryin' to get into it and guys tryin to get out of it. Having said that, if you're bound and determined, we'll help ya any way we can.


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## jefflovstrom (Aug 29, 2013)

Life is hard never soft,,
grow it long,,
Shave it off,,

Van Halen
Jeff


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## Overwatch (Aug 30, 2013)

I realise this may be a a little late, but if I were you, I'd think twice about leaving your day-job. Acquiring your own climbing gear and saws while becoming proficient at tree/rope climbing in your own time while studying the science of arboriculture would seem to be solid advice. Being under the gun timewise in production treework is the salient reason why I stick to what I do best (mowing mainly) and take on tree work at my leisure. Thus, I only work in trees at the speed which I'm comfortable (which is probably pretty slow compared to most here), and never feel rushed or hurried which can be a real safety issue. I also have no problem turning down the really big, difficult and dangerous jobs because I have plenty of non-tree work to keep me occupied. So, my advice would be to not jump headlong into it, and start off easy. Also, at my age (north of 40) treework takes a lot out of you.. you old-timers who climb and cut everyday must feel physically beat on a day to day basis- I know I would!

I don't blame you for wanting to work somewhere that doesn't involve flourescent lights though. Have fun and good luck!


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## pdqdl (Aug 30, 2013)

I think the problem guys, is that he hates his day job.
 
Long hours, lots o whiney kids and parents, administration never happy, weekends filled with paperwork and planning... If you don't like it, get out now. Life is too short to regret not moving sooner.

Going into the tree business as a startup with a business associate/boss is whole different kettle of fish. Lots of potential problems there, but they will be different than the ones you are trying to get away from. My impression is that your business model of plant health & trimming for a landscaping company should work fine. Beware the unsuccessful landscaper that thinks more work will translate to more money at the end of the year. 

For a good working relationship with your benefactor, everything you do must be oriented to about 3 things: Making profits on all your work, keeping profitable customers happy and calling you back, and keeping expenses low so that profits are higher.

Your typical educator is usually not too much in touch with the need to be profitable.


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## jschlecht (Aug 30, 2013)

OP

I feel your pain in the classroom I have been teaching for 6 years now and I am a coach oon the side as well. But I have been working for a local tree company for about 4 years now as the climber trimming guy and the removal guy. And every year I despise September because I know my summer time employer is still outside enjoying his job. His company is one of the few in the area and he is always overbooked. Every august he asks me to not return to the classroom and keep a saw in my hand rather than a pencil. He is a C.A. I am not (yet) waiting impatiently to take my exam. I have a young family and that is the only thing keeping me from taking the "plunge" $$$$ The aches and pains are not a concern for me (I was a succesfull college wrestler) so I am hard headed and used to being so plus the coaching job keeps me in great condition. My employer continually opens his books to me and asks the ? about me taking over so he can sell and retire. Retire being the key point I need to have some sort of pension plan other than the future trees to be planted. 

The time and energy put into the classroom versus the pay barely pays bills but I do get by. Tree work helps a lot. The teaching gig is not near as enjoyable and spend any free weekends working for my tree boss not my principal. 

I do applaud you for taking the "plunge" and still wish you a lot of Luck in your new endeavor (you might need it you might not) .

As for me until the stars align I will continue to play it safe with the teaching gig and dealing with Student/athletes that usually do a great job of frustrating the H double Hockey sticks out of me And then all summer and any free weekends will be spent caring for trees which in return helps pay the bills add knowledge and a much more enjoyable "office"

Good luck Do give updates


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## stltreedr (Aug 30, 2013)

Why not start out with a little side work on summer break to see how it goes?


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## twochains (Aug 30, 2013)

Gologit said:


> You guys forgot to mention the most dangerous aspect of tree work, logger or arborist either one.
> 
> You can starve to death.



Naw Bob, ya won't starve...you can feed yer small family with a tub of chicken livers for $1.50, flour is cheap...fry them dudes and make ya some gravy...unfortunately been there...and I don't ever want to go back!


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## Gologit (Aug 30, 2013)

twochains said:


> Naw Bob, ya won't starve...you can feed yer small family with a tub of chicken livers for $1.50, flour is cheap...fry them dudes and make ya some gravy...unfortunately been there...and I don't ever want to go back!



I know what you mean. When you're starting out you pay yourself last, after all the other bills get paid. Sometimes there's not much left.

We never ate chicken livers but I think my wife could make a pound of hamburger stretch for whole week...including breakfast. There were a couple of winters when deer would mysteriously die in the woods behind our house.


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## Ax-man (Aug 30, 2013)

Good Luck. I hope you won't regret your decision in a year or two. Things have a way of changing in this business that sometimes don't work out the way you plan them.


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## Farmertan (Aug 30, 2013)

pdqdl said:


> I think the problem guys, is that he hates his day job.
> 
> Long hours, lots o whiney kids and parents, administration never happy, weekends filled with paperwork and planning... If you don't like it, get out now. Life is too short to regret not moving sooner.
> 
> ...



All true. Thanks. 

Just to clarify, I'm not a total newbie looking to do something different for a change. I know my tree biology (Ph.D. in biology), have been heating my house with wood for years, dropping my own trees. I'm comfortable dropping hazardous trees (within reason) and pretty good at reading them if I say so myself, fully aware of the dangers and demands placed on my body. I've been helping my friend (the landscaper- a successful one at that) with all of his tree work for a few years now, and I take care of a lot of his other work (pruning of ornamentals, etc.). I'll be taking over all of the pesticide application work that he currently farms out (which is quite a bit), and I'll never starve, unless my body gives out, my wife leaves me, the state refuses to put me on disability and I'm no longer able to teach or do computer work. If that happens, I might as well die anyway. I've got a lot of skills, I'm healthy, like to work hard and will do whatever I can to earn a living. I haven't been climbing trees because without an arborist license, or working for one, the only kind of tree removals I'm going to get involved with are ones I can bomb. That said, I'll work into that- there's time. I've got plenty of work to keep me busy even if I can only scrape up 5-10 hours a week of tree work. Seriously, working at teaching for 11 years and only grossing 50k? I can't do much worse. Bottom line, I'm done teaching. I'll work at Home Depot if I have to.


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## Zale (Aug 30, 2013)

Don't let the naysayers get to you. If you don't mind me asking, how old are you?


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## Farmertan (Aug 30, 2013)

There is that, too. I'm 52. Luckily, I've got a better retirement account than the public school teachers get.


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## Farmertan (Aug 30, 2013)

jschlecht said:


> OP
> 
> I feel your pain in the classroom I have been teaching for 6 years now and I am a coach oon the side as well. But I have been working for a local tree company for about 4 years now as the climber trimming guy and the removal guy. And every year I despise September because I know my summer time employer is still outside enjoying his job. His company is one of the few in the area and he is always overbooked. Every august he asks me to not return to the classroom and keep a saw in my hand rather than a pencil. He is a C.A. I am not (yet) waiting impatiently to take my exam. I have a young family and that is the only thing keeping me from taking the "plunge" $$$$ The aches and pains are not a concern for me (I was a succesfull college wrestler) so I am hard headed and used to being so plus the coaching job keeps me in great condition. My employer continually opens his books to me and asks the ? about me taking over so he can sell and retire. Retire being the key point I need to have some sort of pension plan other than the future trees to be planted.
> 
> ...



I hear ya on the low pay. I'm also with you on the being used to daily aches and pains. Truthfully, I feel more tired after this first week of school that I did after a long week of pruning, cutting and trimming. I gotta be outside though, especially during September, October and April-May.


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## Pelorus (Aug 30, 2013)

$50K with summers, stat holidays, and weekends off! Horrible to contemplate.
I suspect the novelty is gonna wear off sooner than you think.


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## jefflovstrom (Aug 30, 2013)

Pelorus said:


> $50K with summers, stat holidays, and weekends off! Horrible to contemplate.



It trip's me out about the cost of living in the various geographical demographic's. I live in San Diego North County, so 50k a year is gonna be tough unless you are a single guy jumping to motel's. I spent 1993 until 2001 freelancing, made so much money, loving life and climbing for the big stuff. I swore I would never work for the man or even put in 8 hours,,yeah, right.
My hot wife got pregnant some how a few times and I gave in. 
I guess what I am saying is that unless you have a passion for this that nobody understand's, you are a fool.
Jeff


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## TheJollyLogger (Aug 31, 2013)

Never have so few, climbed so much, for so little....

Dumbston Churchill, the younger, dumber brother...


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## Zale (Aug 31, 2013)

At 52 years old, I would concentrate on the PHC aspect of the business. Thats where your money is going to be if you do it right. Much less wear and tear on the body. I'm not saying don't climb. Do the small and medium stuff but sub out the big and nasty stuff to the younger guys. Your body will thank you. Keep us posted on your progress.


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## Farmertan (Aug 31, 2013)

PHC being application work? If so, yes, that'll be the focus. Thanks.


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## Farmertan (Aug 31, 2013)

Pelorus said:


> $50K with summers, stat holidays, and weekends off! Horrible to contemplate.
> I suspect the novelty is gonna wear off sooner than you think.



Holiday and weekends "free" only means that I don't have to go into school. If you haven't taught before, you may be falling victim to the fallacy that teachers only work for nine months, 8:00 am to 3:00 pm. I actually probably average about 75 hours per week during the school year, and my "summer" is about 10 weeks long. Subtract those 10 weeks, 2 weeks spring break and 2 weeks Christmas break, and you get 38 weeks at 75 hours per week. At 50k, that breaks down to about $17.55 per hour worked. That's for a highly trained professional educator and department head with administrative duties. I can get paid $15.00 per hour to run a zero turn and string trimmer. So, 10 years of college to earn $17.55 an hour is pretty horrible to contemplate, so I try not to dwell on it.


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## Farmertan (Aug 31, 2013)

Then again, I never chose to go into biology to make a lot of money. If money was the primary concern, I would have stuck with auto repair which paid me $17.50/hr FLAT RATE. Money isn't the issue, liking what I do is.


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## jefflovstrom (Aug 31, 2013)

Zale said:


> At 52 years old,



When do you turn 53?
Curious Jeff,,:msp_biggrin:


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## Coen (Aug 31, 2013)

*Teaching*

Quitting teaching for tree work was the best move I ever made. I would never wish anyone I like to go into education. I went in at 6 every morning, stayed till 5 every evening, graded papers all weekend, dealt with crap all day from students and parents who didnt care about anything but their selfish wants and needs. During summers I was expected to do this and that from the school district. If it wasn't for tree work I'd be paying on student deabt until death. I hated it. Anyone who thinks teachers have it made should spend some time in a public school. Take a look and see the type of students that walk through them doors. See if you can motivate them to read and write while being bashed by public opinion. Most teachers want out, but options are few; especially for females.


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## Pelorus (Aug 31, 2013)

Sorry guys, but I ain't buying what you're selling.
My mom was a (career) teacher in the public school system (Canada). Loved her job. 30+ years doing it.
Teach the same grade/subject for several years, and you are basically using the same lesson plans. This 75 hours a week is malarky I say! (Are you adding in your commute to/from school and your lunch break?)
Plus, with a private school you prolly have a lot lower student : teacher ratio.
What was your average class size? Grading papers all weekend every weekend.:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:
Anyway, if you think your indoor, climate-controlled desk job was brutal, then you got another thing coming, and the honeymoon is gonna be over before you know it!


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## twochains (Aug 31, 2013)

Seems like a crazy jump...teacher to tree climber..and yet it seems there are several of you that have done it. Who'd a thunk it...I guess if you were a Botanist er something...maybe even a Physics teacher...Hell IDK. I would figure that a 52 year old teacher would have quite the learning curve doing tree work...body and mind. Good luck to ya, better start doing some P90X and eating right.


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## Coen (Aug 31, 2013)

*Teaching*

I've been living the dream since quitting teaching. I've spent time in Canadian cities and Ive felt safe being out after dark. In American cities people need a gun after dark. I know Canadian schools are nothing like what we have here.


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## Coen (Aug 31, 2013)

*Canada*

I love going to Canada and hockey by the way.


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## Farmertan (Aug 31, 2013)

Pelorus said:


> Sorry guys, but I ain't buying what you're selling.
> My mom was a (career) teacher in the public school system (Canada). Loved her job. 30+ years doing it.
> Teach the same grade/subject for several years, and you are basically using the same lesson plans. This 75 hours a week is malarky I say! (Are you adding in your commute to/from school and your lunch break?)
> Plus, with a private school you prolly have a lot lower student : teacher ratio.
> ...



Perhaps we should just trade jobs


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## TheJollyLogger (Aug 31, 2013)

Farmertan said:


> Perhaps we should just trade jobs



I think the difference is before Pelorus just up and quit his job and started teaching science, he would make sure he was properly trained. But hey, it's just tree work, right? It's not like ya need training to do it , right? Jeff


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## Pelorus (Aug 31, 2013)

Jeff, the eventual decline & fall of my creaking tree empire will prolly result in me delivering take-out Chinese food.
Sometimes a Great Notion was a damn fine movie.


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## TheJollyLogger (Aug 31, 2013)

Yeah, if it wasn't for all the money and the groupies I'd probably go do something else too.


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## Gologit (Aug 31, 2013)

TheJollyLogger said:


> Yeah, if it wasn't for all the money and the groupies I'd probably go do something else too.



Money? Groupies??!! Dammit, I _knew_ I should have been an arborist.  All _we_ get are IOUs and surly 7-11 clerks with missing teeth and blotchy tattoos who get bent out of shape when we wear our calks in the store.


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## TheJollyLogger (Aug 31, 2013)

It's got it's downside Bob. The last contract job I did, let me tell ya. The limo was late, I had to drive myself. Then when I get there, fiji water in the cooler, when I had specifically said Evian. I mean it's tough enough to teach a groundie to put a girth hitch on a round bottle, but a square one? It was a disaster. I even had to carry all my gear to the tree, gas up my own saw, it was murder.


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## jefflovstrom (Aug 31, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Money? Groupies??!! Dammit, I _knew_ I should have been an arborist.



Nah, people always expect you to know everything,,
Jeff


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## TheJollyLogger (Aug 31, 2013)

jefflovstrom said:


> Nah, people always expect you to know everything,,
> Jeff



" Yes ma'am, that's the worst case of oak wilt I've ever seen in a maple. We should get it down before EAB hits this area."


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## jefflovstrom (Aug 31, 2013)

TheJollyLogger said:


> " Yes ma'am, that's the worst case of oak wilt I've ever seen in a maple. We should get it down before EAB hits this area."



We dont have EAB ,,we have fusarium.
Jeff,,not grumpy
:eek2:


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## TheJollyLogger (Aug 31, 2013)

I wish we had EAB, maybe they would get rid of all these arizona ash. Talk about a weed with visions of grandeur....


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## Gologit (Aug 31, 2013)

TheJollyLogger said:


> It's got it's downside Bob. The last contract job I did, let me tell ya. The limo was late, I had to drive myself. Then when I get there, fiji water in the cooler, when I had specifically said Evian. I mean it's tough enough to teach a groundie to put a girth hitch on a round bottle, but a square one? It was a disaster. I even had to carry all my gear to the tree, gas up my own saw, it was murder.



Well, I can see right now that I've spent 50 years in the wrong industry. We don't get a limo, we get a five year old six pack Chevy with holes in the floorboards, an AM radio permanently stuck on the local farm news station, windows that don't roll all the way up, moldy upholstery, and an all pervading odor of snoose, sweat, diesel, sox on their fourth day of wear, grease, saw mix, and the combined breath, farts, and belches of six guys who consider prepackaged breakfast burritos as one of the basic food groups. That's one of the reasons we've never fixed the windows.

As for water...a much used plastic Pepsi bottle dipped in whatever creek looks to be clean enough to lessen the chances of Giardia...as in "hell, we drank out of that creek all last season and hardly anybody got sick enough to miss work"...

As for groundies...we don't have that exact job description but we _do_ have landing rats. Their job is to buck the logs that are too big for the processor, cut the limbs off, brand the logs, help the truckers tie down, fuel the equipment, keep the landing saws sharp and ready and generally do whatever else comes up. They should like to run. They usually have more tattoos than teeth.
I've always suspected that there's a hiring criteria for landing rats...when they apply they're given an IQ test and if their IQ is within ten points of the current outside air temperature they get hired. Hiring is almost always done in the winter.


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## TheJollyLogger (Aug 31, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Well, I can see right now that I've spent 50 years in the wrong industry. We don't get a limo, we get a five year old six pack Chevy with holes in the floorboards, an AM radio permanently stuck on the local farm news station, windows that don't roll all the way up, moldy upholstery, and an all pervading odor of snoose, sweat, diesel, sox on their fourth day of wear, grease, saw mix, and the combined breath, farts, and belches of six guys who consider prepackaged breakfast burritos as one of the basic food groups. That's one of the reasons we've never fixed the windows.
> 
> As for water...a much used plastic Pepsi bottle dipped in whatever creek looks to be clean enough to lessen the chances of Giardia...as in "hell, we drank out of that creek all last season and hardly anybody got sick enough to miss work"...
> 
> ...



Yeah, but at least ya can get a decent haircut. Try walking in and tellin em you're an arborist.:hmm3grin2orange:

Ray Stevens - The Haircut Song - YouTube


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## CanopyGorilla (Sep 1, 2013)

All I will say to the OP is if you think a little CT choss pile crag is comparable to tree work guess again! I have done lots of that "Yosemite type bigwall stuff" and trees are kinda like that but 5-7 days a week all year. I'm 28 and my body is already pretty ####ed up. Sounds like you might be doing more spraying than 100' removals every day though, so I guess cancer will kill ya quicker than tendinitis or not knowing how to deal with kickback from a 066 while sittin in spurs.


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## CanopyGorilla (Sep 2, 2013)

TheJollyLogger said:


> Yeah, but at least ya can get a decent haircut. Try walking in and tellin em you're an arborist.:hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> Ray Stevens - The Haircut Song - YouTube


Great song!!


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## zogger (Sep 10, 2013)

Hey, good luck!

I mostly just lurk over here once in awhile and on logging, but I appreciate just wanting to do something YOU want to do over what you are doing now. I'm in the same boat, but at near 62 now..options are limited. But..seeing as how I am at the bottom of the barrel as per a career (I am a farmhand and make well under minimum rage...)..any job would be an economic improvement, plus most likely more fun.

I'd love to have anything at all to do with a job that involved trees/wood/thinking. I cut here where and when I have to, but that's it. I have done free climbing, some technical climbing, some high ironwork, but no arb work. 

I can't afford any gear whatsoever though, even a basic climbing rig, from what I have seen, what a guy would really need, is like fi ve to ten grand worth of stuff. Then trucks and so on..ain't happening. Thought about logging, even more gear I can't afford. Even commercial firewood can't afford all the gear.

You have an "in" to a job, backup income with bennies from the wife, ability to afford this schooling and a transition time period as you learn and get better..so good luck and better skill, man! I think you can make it work for you!


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## pdqdl (Sep 10, 2013)

All the fancy toys that the pro arborists like to talk about are not really necessary. I could take $200, buy a used climbing saddle and some cheap rope, a $23 hand saw from Home Depot, and I could easily beat minimum wage just knocking doors. Chances are good that I could find a decent old chainsaw for $50 that would really improve my cutting time.

Climbing without all the toys wouldn't be fun, but it can be done with nothing but three strand rope and a bunch of knots. You do tree work with the information in your head and the strength in your arms. The equipment just makes it faster and easier. 

Fill your head with useful information, then start asking more money for your services. It sounds to me like you might be underpricing yourself already.


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## Pelorus (Sep 10, 2013)

No Workman's comp?, no disability insurance,? no liability insurance premiums?...just a cheap saddle and handsaw, and a $50 chainsaw and you are good to go. Well alrighty then. Have at it.


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## pdqdl (Sep 10, 2013)

It would be hack city all the way, baby.

I'd be knockin' doors, cutting down branches and piling them by the curb for the customer. I might get lucky and find some hungry lawn service with a 16' long trailer and an old pickup truck that needed to be put to work, and I'd be on a roll.

Shucks! I could probably afford some insurance too...in a couple of years.

My point of course, is that it doesn't take a lot of money for equipment to go into the business. It does take knowledge and ability, which can be used to make money. Without the knowledge to do the work, all the equipment you could wish for is pretty useless.


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## Pelorus (Sep 10, 2013)

Takes money to make money, and if you are working at heights over client's homes and property you better have both a decent skillset and decent rigging or you are gonna wreck something or somebody. or both.
Sorry, but the el cheapo route ain't gonna get anybody very far in this biz. Be better off becoming a window washer with a pro grade squeegee, bucket, Sunlight dish soap, and a case of microfibre cloths.


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## pdqdl (Sep 10, 2013)

I can't argue with that idea. I knew a guy that was paying for college just that way.

I could also beat minimum wage pretty quick with a used mower, too. A $20 pair of hedge trimmers would make some income, too. There are lots of ways to make money on a shoestring, although mowing grass doesn't work too well in the winter time.

I was just attempting to point out that it doesn't take a fortune to do a little tree trimming. Sometimes, primitive is ok. Not very often, but sometimes.


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## Pelorus (Sep 10, 2013)

pdqdl said:


> I was just attempting to point out that it doesn't take a fortune to do a little tree trimming. Sometimes, primitive is ok. Not very often, but sometimes.



Having once been a primitive (for a number of years) in my tender newbie years, I really wouldn't encourage anyone else to become one. It is the wrong kinda career for trying to cob together garage sale specials and eBay junk to save some coin.


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## newsawtooth (Sep 10, 2013)

tl;dr a bunch of guys who get physically ill at the thought of working inside and likely haven't worn a tie since the Reagan administration try to talk another guy out of quitting his inside job.


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## pdqdl (Sep 11, 2013)

That would be a hugely erroneous conclusion.

Do you really think we are a bunch of guys that don't work inside? Most of us must do both: run the business and do the work, too. Meet the customers, make the sales, do the technical stuff, and make sure the grunt work gets done, too. Finish the day by finishing the paperwork.


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## newsawtooth (Sep 11, 2013)

pdqdl said:


> That would be a hugely erroneous conclusion.
> 
> Do you really think we are a bunch of guys that don't work inside? Most of us must do both: run the business and do the work, too. Meet the customers, make the sales, do the technical stuff, and make sure the grunt work gets done, too. Finish the day by finishing the paperwork.



Yeah, well, I'll let you tell Jeffers he's an office type.

OP, good luck. The PHC route is the most lucrative and your Bio degree will be helpful in getting a Pesticide Supervisor license. A friendly word of advice; you can have the best climbers and equipment in the world and go broke with out a good salesman.


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 11, 2013)

newsawtooth said:


> Yeah, well, I'll let you tell Jeffers he's an office type.
> 
> OP, good luck. The PHC route is the most lucrative and your Bio degree will be helpful in getting a Pesticide Supervisor license. A friendly word of advice; you can have the best climbers and equipment in the world and go broke with out a good salesman.



I am not the office type at all!
Jeff


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## newsawtooth (Sep 11, 2013)

jefflovstrom said:


> I am not the office type at all!
> Jeff



I know you're not, Jeff. None of us are, that's why this thread was sort of amusing. There are some good kernels of wisdom in it though.


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## sgreanbeans (Sep 12, 2013)

pdqdl said:


> without the knowledge to do the work, all the equipment you could wish for is pretty useless.



word


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## tolman_paul (Sep 12, 2013)

Good luck on your new venture!

Every job has aspects that suck, that's what makes it work. A slight bit of advice is to find a niche and fill it. Getting licensed so you can do the jobs that not everybody else can do is a good way to go. The key to being successful is working smarter, not harder than the other guy.

As far as teachers have a cushy easy job, my wife's done a fair bit of subsistute teaching over the years and even in good school districts it's a challenging job. We've also volunteered to grade homework for some of our kids teachers to give them a break and have found ourselves up to 11pm grading assignments.


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## joshnnh (May 24, 2014)

sgreanbeans said:


> I think I would be a awesome shop teacher. "You go get a trash bag, You give me your pot lighter and you go get the acetylene............ going to show you how to make some noise" "It will be on the test"


Haha. My foreman taught me that one day. Right out back of the shop. I was trully impressed


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