# Need a good video showing the proper use of climbers



## Plasmech (Jan 24, 2009)

I've been putting some time in on my spikes and lanyard, trying to get some technique down. I feel like I am using brute force to go up the tree as opposed to the much more refined technique I see the pro's use. I'm basically bear-hugging the tree to adjust my lanyard, whereas the pro's can just sort of flip it up. Are there any good videos on the new showing "how it's done"? Most videos of climbers I see are a bit far away to really see all the details. 

Also, is it just me or is it a LOT harder to spike DOWN a tree than up? Definitely need to work on that. Thanks for any replies!


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## tree md (Jan 24, 2009)

Are you using a flip line with a rope grab? Should be able to adjust and climb without having to bear hug the tree if you are using one of those. If you are using the old buck straps with the prussic knot it's hard to adjust while you are in the tree on a singe lanyard without bear hugging and reaching around the tree. You could use two lanyards and alternate when you need to adjust or use a split tail in conjunction with your lanyard. You shouldn't be bear hugging while ascending the tree on spikes. It puts your spikes at an extreme angle that is prone to kick out. You should be at comfortable arms distance and advance the lanyard as you climb keeping the lanyard at waist level when you work. If your having problems descending it could be that your spikes are too sharp. Especially if you are a little heavy. I like to keep mine a little dull so they aren't difficult to pull out of the tree while I am gaffing up or down. Sorry, don't know of any vids.


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## Plasmech (Jan 24, 2009)

tree md said:


> Are you using a flip line with a rope grab? Should be able to adjust and climb without having to bear hug the tree if you are using one of those. If you are using the old buck straps with the prussic knot it's hard to adjust while you are in the tree on a singe lanyard without bear hugging and reaching around the tree. You could use two lanyards and alternate when you need to adjust or use a split tail in conjunction with your lanyard. You shouldn't be bear hugging while ascending the tree on spikes. It puts your spikes at an extreme angle that is prone to kick out. You should be at comfortable arms distance and advance the lanyard as you climb keeping the lanyard at waist level when you work. If your having problems descending it could be that your spikes are too sharp. Especially if you are a little heavy. I like to keep mine a little dull so they aren't difficult to pull out of the tree while I am gaffing up or down. Sorry, don't know of any vids.




Thanks. I am using a split-tail system with a micro pulley. When I said "adjust the lanyard", I actually meant move it up and down the tree, sorry I mis-led you. I'm able to pretty easily adjust the length or the lanyard with the micro-pulley, although it still is a bit hard to "loosen" it than to pull it in. Just having difficulty smoothly spiking up/down the tree and moving that lanyard with me efficiently.


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## treemandan (Jan 24, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> Thanks. I am using a split-tail system with a micro pulley. When I said "adjust the lanyard", I actually meant move it up and down the tree, sorry I mis-led you. I'm able to pretty easily adjust the length or the lanyard with the micro-pulley, although it still is a bit hard to "loosen" it than to pull it in. Just having difficulty smoothly spiking up/down the tree and moving that lanyard with me efficiently.



Keep practicing. When fishing I always had trouble getting the worm on the hook just right. Years later and now I am a master baiter. I have to admit, video did help me on that.

And to hell with giving you pics, we want to see YOU!


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## tree md (Jan 24, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> Thanks. I am using a split-tail system with a micro pulley. When I said "adjust the lanyard", I actually meant move it up and down the tree, sorry I mis-led you. I'm able to pretty easily adjust the length or the lanyard with the micro-pulley, although it still is a bit hard to "loosen" it than to pull it in. Just having difficulty smoothly spiking up/down the tree and moving that lanyard with me efficiently.



As I go up I hold my lanyard in both hands and kind of lean forward and flip it up the tree as I advance. Hope this helps.


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## DK_stihl (Jan 24, 2009)

*Flip line*



Plasmech said:


> I've been putting some time in on my spikes and lanyard, trying to get some technique down. I feel like I am using brute force to go up the tree as opposed to the much more refined technique I see the pro's use. I'm basically bear-hugging the tree to adjust my lanyard, whereas the pro's can just sort of flip it up. Are there any good videos on the new showing "how it's done"? Most videos of climbers I see are a bit far away to really see all the details.
> 
> Also, is it just me or is it a LOT harder to spike DOWN a tree than up? Definitely need to work on that. Thanks for any replies!



Plasmech,
Have you considered the use of a wire core lanyard? When I was learning I had problems being able to "flip" my regular rope lanyard up the tree. I got a wire core and it was much easier. The technique that I use for climbing is to to take two steps up on my spikes, then kind of pull/thrust myself towards the tree while simultaneously flipping my lanyard up. I hope this helps. And yes, we want pics.


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## Rftreeman (Jan 24, 2009)

not a tree but you'll get the idea

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8vZdn362kM


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## DK_stihl (Jan 24, 2009)

*Video*



Rftreeman said:


> not a tree but you'll get the idea
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8vZdn362kM



Yeah, what that guy does, except there are no knots/stubs on that pole. LOL


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## tree md (Jan 24, 2009)

Rftreeman said:


> not a tree but you'll get the idea
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8vZdn362kM



That song is hilarious!


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## treemandan (Jan 24, 2009)

tree md said:


> That song is hilarious!



Yeah, i was dancin.


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## treemandan (Jan 24, 2009)

So that is that Plas-man. You know, much that is said ain't really that much at all. So now you know where The Dan is and you know how to get here. If you want to stop talking and DO then come on down, i don't bite, neither does anybody else. Straight lace.


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## ozzy42 (Jan 25, 2009)

treemandan said:


> Keep practicing.
> 
> Years later and now I am a master baiter.



That's a visual we really didn't need Dan


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## Stihl Alive (Jan 25, 2009)

If you have a crotch to throw your life line over, just tie that knot (I forget the name) that allows you to just pull down on the knot to go down, and let it go to stop. If no life line I've found that lowering your flip line and pulling it tight before you step down is the most comfortable way. This way if you slip your lanyard is already tight and you "shouldn't" go far. 

WARNING: Stihl Alive is NOT a professional and any advice taken should be practiced with extreme caution.


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## TreeTopKid (Jan 25, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> I've been putting some time in on my spikes and lanyard, trying to get some technique down. I feel like I am using brute force to go up the tree as opposed to the much more refined technique I see the pro's use. I'm basically bear-hugging the tree to adjust my lanyard, whereas the pro's can just sort of flip it up. Are there any good videos on the new showing "how it's done"? Most videos of climbers I see are a bit far away to really see all the details.
> 
> Also, is it just me or is it a LOT harder to spike DOWN a tree than up? Definitely need to work on that. Thanks for any replies!



Be careful being too close to the tree, you could easily slide all the way to the base you need to sit back so that your weight is pulling tight on your flip line which is basically along with your gaffs keeps you there. I can practically guarantee that by 'bear hugging' a tree you will come to grief sooner or later because that's what happened to me the very first time I used spikes it was so embarrassing I lost all the skin off one of my cheeks , and the ankle of my trousers/pants was practically in my ass. Lengthen your flip line a little and sit back. Are you using a mechanical adjuster (Micrograb/Cinch system)?


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## TreeTopKid (Jan 25, 2009)

One more question when you say spike down the tree, do you mean when going to the ground for a break? It's safer to use your safety line and a friction hitch (which should be attached also).


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## Plasmech (Jan 25, 2009)

DK_stihl said:


> Plasmech,
> Have you considered the use of a wire core lanyard? When I was learning I had problems being able to "flip" my regular rope lanyard up the tree. I got a wire core and it was much easier. The technique that I use for climbing is to to take two steps up on my spikes, then kind of pull/thrust myself towards the tree while simultaneously flipping my lanyard up. I hope this helps. And yes, we want pics.




I do have a wire-core lanyard. That video is good. I see that my problem is that for one, I left way too many stubs on my "practice tree". Also it's a confidence issue being able to step up on one leg and move the wirecore up at the SAME time, confidence I don't have yet. I also see it's necessary to pull yourself in to the tree just a bit using the lanyard while stepping up. I take these baby half steps which are actually dangerous because by the time I get to the top, I am dead tired, not good.

And yes the music in that video was pretty funny, it was like out of nowhere lol.


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## Plasmech (Jan 25, 2009)

TreeTopKid said:


> One more question when you say spike down the tree, do you mean when going to the ground for a break? It's safer to use your safety line and a friction hitch (which should be attached also).



Are you saying rap down on a friction hitch? I would probably just use my rescue 8...or maybe that's what you meant?


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## outofmytree (Jan 25, 2009)

Hi Plasmech, welcome to the world of swollen feet and painful arches! 

You have been given some good advice to date so I will add only a couple of points. 

Be patient with yourself. This is an unnatural action and your body knows it. Stay as close to vertical as possible when ascending for the moment. You can be fancy later on.

Always climb on sharp gaffs. Whoever said allow them to go dull thinks and works very differently to me. If you are having trouble extracting them then don't "stamp" quite so hard when you put them in.

I still find descending on spurs harder than ascending. When you think about the action it makes good sense that this should be so. Extracting your spurs is an upward motion, then you step down on the now freed foot, then stamp in, then repeat. Ascending is all one smooth motion in the same direction. Again, give it time.

There is nothing wrong with taking small steps. The greater the distance between your feet the more strain on your calves, quads and buttocks. It is very easy to overstep and hurt yourself. Just take it slow and easy.

Last of all. Practise. Lots.


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## OLD CHIPMONK (Jan 25, 2009)

TreeTopKid said:


> One more question when you say spike down the tree, do you mean when going to the ground for a break?




 What? take a break........"GIT-ER-DONE"......


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## squad143 (Jan 25, 2009)

I hate having to climb back up a tree, I'd rather stay up there until its done. However on the odd occasion that I do, unless I'm under 15' up, I'll rappel down on my climbing line. Less work and more fun. 

Added benefit is less time on the spurs.


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## tree md (Jan 25, 2009)

outofmytree said:


> Hi Plasmech, welcome to the world of swollen feet and painful arches!
> 
> You have been given some good advice to date so I will add only a couple of points.
> 
> ...



When I started climbing years ago and was a light weight I would keep my spikes pretty sharp. However, I found as I got older and became a heavy weight that it is better to let my spikes become a little dull. They still get plenty of penetration in the tree and are easier to pull out of the tree when ascending or descending. Plus, they won't damage your rope too bad if you accidentally spike it while working in the tree. I've only been using spikes for 18 years though so what do I know.


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## Plasmech (Jan 25, 2009)

outofmytree said:


> Hi Plasmech, welcome to the world of swollen feet and painful arches!
> 
> You have been given some good advice to date so I will add only a couple of points.
> 
> ...



Hey speaking of pain, what do you guys do to protect your leg from the vertical support bar on the climbers? The other day a rivet or something left a nasy blood blister on my left leg, damn thing dug right in, must have gone through the boot too, at least the force of it did.


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## JeffL (Jan 25, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> Hey speaking of pain, what do you guys do to protect your leg from the vertical support bar on the climbers? The other day a rivet or something left a nasy blood blister on my left leg, damn thing dug right in, must have gone through the boot too, at least the force of it did.



Nothing, mine are comfy, just the simple Buckingham climbers with velcro wrap pads. I'm not on them very often, usually end up with a sore set of leg muscles, but thats about it. I keep the velcro strapped down tight, and make sure my foot straps are snug before I leave the ground. Very comfortable for me. 

And personally if I'm coming down a spar thats ready to drop, topped off with a tag line to pull it over, I'll usually just come down on a muenter hitch on a biner. Quick and easy.


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## TreeTopKid (Jan 26, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> Are you saying rap down on a friction hitch? I would probably just use my rescue 8...or maybe that's what you meant?



Yep either/or.


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## TreeTopKid (Jan 26, 2009)

OLD CHIPMONK said:


> What? take a break........"GIT-ER-DONE"......



I always 'git er done' I was just wondering whether Plasmech was spiking down for coffee.LOL:smoking:


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## masiman (Jan 26, 2009)

treemandan said:


> Keep practicing. When fishing I always had trouble getting the worm on the hook just right. Years later and now I am a master baiter. I have to admit, video did help me on that.
> 
> And to hell with giving you pics, we want to see YOU!



, this reminds me of a little MP skit

How are the boots workin' for ya Plas? Did you end up with the blue light specials or did you get something a little better constructed? Someone posted somewhere on here in the last couple days on a really good deal on Carolina logger boots, one pair was $50 another was $70.

I don't know what spurs you have but if they are the Buckinghams, they should not be digging into your legs. The screws that mount the adjustable post to the climbers should be flush on your leg side. Other than that, good climbing boots (at least 8", 10" would probably be better) would protect your legs. I don't know what pads you are using either, but the L or T pads are not something I could recommend spending any time on. I'd recommend either the cushion wraps or the aluminum cadillacs. Also depending on your climbers, you can take a loop the foot strap once around the shaft of the climber before buckling it. This will help keep the climber from rotating. Buckingham climber care instructions

Everything else is practice with the spurs. It is tiring and painful until you get efficient at it. It's alot like skiing, where you can spend alot of energy trying to stay up and even more energy falling and getting back up. Once you learn to do it right, you can expend probably a 1/5 or less the energy of a newb.

You may find hugging the tree will get you into trouble not only by increasing your risk of gaffing out, but also you will likely let the pressure of your lanyard (if you are using it). This will let your lanyard drop below your hips, leaving you to hold on to the tree with one hand and retrieving your lanyard with your other. To help you through this stage, I'd recommend learning to climb on a TIP and lanyard. The TIP will give you the extra confidence that you won't do a slide for life if you mess up the lanyard technique or gaff out.

I started out with the big stubs too. I wanted that extra safety of something to catch my lanyard if I fell. I never fell very far and it they never helped. They can hurt you on the way down, especially between the legs. More commonly, they will cause you extra work by hanging up branches you are dropping (tangling your ropes, making for widowmakers to groundies, etc.). If you have to have a stub, cut them shorter (2-3") and cut fewer of them. Start to trust your equipment.

If you were closer to DC I'd invite you out too. I'd take Dan up on his offer. I'd like to climb with Dan myself, although I think he would have me laughing too hard the whole time to do any work


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## Plasmech (Jan 26, 2009)

masiman said:


> , this reminds me of a little MP skit
> 
> How are the boots workin' for ya Plas? Did you end up with the blue light specials or did you get something a little better constructed? Someone posted somewhere on here in the last couple days on a really good deal on Carolina logger boots, one pair was $50 another was $70.
> 
> ...



Thanks for all the advice.

I returned the Red Dawg's and got a pair of Hoffman 16" "Dri-Line" double-shanked boots. They are nice.

My climbers are Klien. I was using the leather "pads" that come with them, yet something was still hurting my leg big time. They _were_ adjusted so that the metal part and thus the top-most part of the leather strap were right above my boot. I since adjusted them down so that the top strap/pad strap is now flush with the top of my boot. Maybe this will help?

And BTW I am taking Dan up on his offer!


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## TackleTree (Jan 26, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> Thanks for all the advice.
> 
> I returned the Red Dawg's and got a pair of Hoffman 16" "Dri-Line" double-shanked boots. They are nice.
> 
> ...



Good chioce my friend. Also using a TIP helps when you are still a little shaky and if you get tired you can just tighten up your hitch on your rope and get off the gaffs. I am a heavy dude as well and gaffing down is a PITA. Get a rescue 8 and just slide on down. Good luck and listen to the MAN


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## masiman (Jan 27, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> Thanks for all the advice.
> 
> I returned the Red Dawg's and got a pair of Hoffman 16" "Dri-Line" double-shanked boots. They are nice.
> 
> ...



That is a very nice looking boot! Hopefully you won't have to go back a forth a few times to get the right size.

I have not used the Kleins but from what I can tell I think they are very similar to the Buckinghams. This is a link to the instructions for the Klein climbers in case you need them in the future. Those pads are likely "L" pads but maybe "T" pads. I can't emphasize enough about getting good pads, especially starting out. Maybe when you get more experience you could handle the pads you have. But I'll about guarantee you won't touch them after you feel the comfort and control of the better pads.

Its important to adjust the shank of the climber appropriately. On page 3, step 1D of the Klein instructions, they show how you should adjust the shaft height to about 1" below the knee. You lose control the farther down you go. Adjusting it down might make it more comfortable but you might not have as much control or strength to get the gaff in.


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## fishercat (Jan 27, 2009)

*you're just not confident in your gear yet.*



Plasmech said:


> I've been putting some time in on my spikes and lanyard, trying to get some technique down. I feel like I am using brute force to go up the tree as opposed to the much more refined technique I see the pro's use. I'm basically bear-hugging the tree to adjust my lanyard, whereas the pro's can just sort of flip it up. Are there any good videos on the new showing "how it's done"? Most videos of climbers I see are a bit far away to really see all the details.
> 
> Also, is it just me or is it a LOT harder to spike DOWN a tree than up? Definitely need to work on that. Thanks for any replies!



using a climbing line as well as a lanyard will help with this.hang in there.what you're going through is normal in the beginning.it takes time.


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## DK_stihl (Jan 27, 2009)

*Spiking down*



Plasmech said:


> I've been putting some time in on my spikes and lanyard, trying to get some technique down. I feel like I am using brute force to go up the tree as opposed to the much more refined technique I see the pro's use. I'm basically bear-hugging the tree to adjust my lanyard, whereas the pro's can just sort of flip it up. Are there any good videos on the new showing "how it's done"? Most videos of climbers I see are a bit far away to really see all the details.
> 
> Also, is it just me or is it a LOT harder to spike DOWN a tree than up? Definitely need to work on that. Thanks for any replies!



These guys seem to have it mastered....hahaha It seems easier on the way down for them.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MS6nR2p8WdY


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## Plasmech (Jan 27, 2009)

DK_stihl said:


> These guys seem to have it mastered....hahaha It seems easier on the way down for them.....
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MS6nR2p8WdY




Ouch...they must be wearing Nomex undies huh?


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## Plasmech (Jan 27, 2009)

fishercat said:


> using a climbing line as well as a lanyard will help with this.hang in there.what you're going through is normal in the beginning.it takes time.



Thanks for the words of support man...


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## woodchux (Jan 27, 2009)

I use the reddawgs and buckinghams with the velcro wraps. That takes care of 90% of the pain, except for my inner ankle bones. For them i use peewee size soccer shin pads and slip them down in my boots and have no pain.


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## outofmytree (Jan 28, 2009)

tree md said:


> When I started climbing years ago and was a light weight I would keep my spikes pretty sharp. However, I found as I got older and became a heavy weight that it is better to let my spikes become a little dull. They still get plenty of penetration in the tree and are easier to pull out of the tree when ascending or descending. Plus, they won't damage your rope too bad if you accidentally spike it while working in the tree. I've only been using spikes for 18 years though so what do I know.



18 years is a long time in spurs. Did you not take them off even once before going to bed??

I weigh in at 80kg so of course any advice I give would be for climbers of my weight and build. I meant no offence tree md, simply that I think differently to yourself.

Speaking of rope damage, lately I have been frustrated with punctures so I am doing things a little differently. I now ascend with 2 wire core fliplines to set my lifeline and false crotch at the highest TIP. Instead of trailing my lifeline in front hanging from the usual D I carry it on my utility clip at the rear of my belt. Once I set the TIP and swap to the usual D on the bridge I then lower the second lanyard to reduce snagging in the tree. Havent spiked my lifeline once like this.


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## tree md (Jan 28, 2009)

outofmytree said:


> 18 years is a long time in spurs. Did you not take them off even once before going to bed??
> 
> I weigh in at 80kg so of course any advice I give would be for climbers of my weight and build. I meant no offence tree md, simply that I think differently to yourself.
> 
> Speaking of rope damage, lately I have been frustrated with punctures so I am doing things a little differently. I now ascend with 2 wire core fliplines to set my lifeline and false crotch at the highest TIP. Instead of trailing my lifeline in front hanging from the usual D I carry it on my utility clip at the rear of my belt. Once I set the TIP and swap to the usual D on the bridge I then lower the second lanyard to reduce snagging in the tree. Havent spiked my lifeline once like this.



No offense taken. 

I'll ignore the sleeping in in my spurs comment as it is silly. I actually learned about not not keeping the gaffs so sharp from another older, more experienced climber I worked for in the past. He was a big guy and weighed around 230. I guess "dull" would be incorrect terminology. Maybe not over sharp would have been a better choice of words. I have seen climbers over sharpen their gaffs or sharpen them at the wrong angle and have it cause them to have to work harder in the tree. I think a lot of rookie climbers over emphasize the need to have razor sharp gaffs when having correct penetration with the gaffs is the important factor. Just my .02 

As far as comfort level, I climbed with Klien spikes for several years. That is what I started out with. The L pads will become uncomfortable if you have to spend long hours in them. The T pads are a little better. I like the offset gaffs on the Kliens, they work great in hardwoods and will do the job in pines. My last pair of spikes were Buckingham and they were decent but could be uncomfortable after a long day in the tree. I bought a pair of Bashlin aluminum climbers last year with the velcro wraps. Great climbers! They are so comfortable I can barley tell I'm wearing them.


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## numberonesinger (Jan 28, 2009)

*Used Arborist videos or books*

I'm looking for used materials for some of my staff.


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