# Water cooled chainsaw chain exelent



## Matildasmate (Oct 2, 2007)

Water cooled chainsaw chain was mentioned on another thread and I tried it today on my setup , cutting up the last of this years Blackwood logs , a small 4' log . I slapped up a real rough water cooler to try it out , works bloody great , chain stays cool , almost no stretching and shrinking , you can touch the chain immediately after using it , I need to come up with a better dripper or a flat spray to control the dust better , the water actually works well also , as a lubricant , as well keeping the chain clean . A mate of mine asked me about White Blackwood , which is the sapwood , I ended up with a peice today , white one side and normal the other . Cheers all MM


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## BobL (Oct 2, 2007)

Are you using the water as well as, or instead of an auxilliary oiler? Water will cool the chain and bar and lube a bit but provided you don't overcook the bar/chain I can't imagine it protecting the bar - chain interface from wear as much as oil because water has a much lower viscosity than oil and is instantly squeezed out from the chain-bar interface whereas the oil will hang around a bit longer. 

I have tried using just a one handed pump spray unit to put water onto the chain (but not in place of the aux oiler) to keep it cool and it worked fine. It didn't help keep the red gum from gumming up the chain but maybe I waited until the stuff had baked on and I was too late. I was thinking a small garden backpak hand pump might be the way to go with the water cooling but hey, why not just connect up a hose direct? Humm - might give that one a go.

Maybe if your aux oiler is already just a dripolator type (ie drips onto the chain) most of the oil gets flung off and doesn't get to the bar/chain interface anyway. Then water may be better because it will at least keep everything cooler?

Anyway - I'd like to see how you go in the long run with your bar/chain wear.

Cheers


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## Rodney Sinclair (Oct 2, 2007)

Over on the Logosol forum, they had a tread going a while back about using water. Got some pictures of how it's built and rigged up. Most are made with PVC pipe and caps. Even got a parts list.

Rodney


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## Matildasmate (Oct 2, 2007)

*Lube*



BobL said:


> Are you using the water as well as, or instead of an auxiliary oiler? Water will cool the chain and bar and lube a bit but provided you don't overcook the bar/chain I can't imagine it protecting the bar - chain interface from wear as much as oil because water has a much lower viscosity than oil and is instantly squeezed out from the chain-bar interface whereas the oil will hang around a bit longer.
> 
> I have tried using just a one handed pump spray unit to put water onto the chain (but not in place of the aux oiler) to keep it cool and it worked fine. It didn't help keep the red gum from gumming up the chain but maybe I waited until the stuff had baked on and I was too late. I was thinking a small garden backpak hand pump might be the way to go with the water cooling but hey, why not just connect up a hose direct? Humm - might give that one a go.
> 
> ...



Hi Bob......... I don't use an auxiliary oiler , the oiler on me chainsaw is enough lube , I was originally interested in the dust control , the cooling , cleaning , lubricating are all a bonus , I put it at the tip first , that was hopeless , so I have set it up right next to the powerhead , much better , but will get better . This setup took me about 20 minutes to make for a test run . I wanted to see if it was worth a crumpet before I invested too much effort in it . Your right about the hose though , I read an article elsewhere , where a bloke used a hose , so next step hose and more flow plus a mini spray instead of dripper . hopefully this controls the dust a bit better . Cheers MM


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## Matildasmate (Oct 2, 2007)

*Pvc pipe setup*



Rodney Sinclair said:


> Over on the Logosol forum, they had a tread going a while back about using water. Got some pictures of how it's built and rigged up. Most are made with PVC pipe and caps. Even got a parts list.
> 
> Rodney



Hi Rodney ........ Yeah I had a look at that and also another bloke was using a garden hose , so I am gunna go with the hose , because I don't intend to shift me mill again , I recently moved my mill to another smaller shed I was'nt using , all the dust in my big shed was starting to piss me off , me big shed is 100' x 35' and the dust was travelling up to 50' covering everything . Cheers MM


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## carvinmark (Oct 2, 2007)

I mix about 10% dish washing soap with mine, it works great and cleans most all of the pitch off too.


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## BobL (Oct 2, 2007)

I just realized I already have 2 holes (one on either side) at the end of my bar but only use one for the aux oiler at any one time which means the other could be used for cooling. Here is a plan that I'm thinking of trying.







The direction of the water jets could be arranged to blast the chain in an outward direction on both sides. Also a 1/4 circle slot could be used instead of holes.

Cheers


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## Mad Professor (Oct 2, 2007)

BobL said:


> I just realized I already have 2 holes (one on either side) at the end of my bar but only use one for the aux oiler at any one time which means the other could be used for cooling. Here is a plan that I'm thinking of trying.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I bet that could be connected nicely to a 2-3 gallon comercial water sprayer to provide both pressure and a resivour for the water.


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## Matildasmate (Oct 2, 2007)

*Dish washing liquid*



carvinmark said:


> I mix about 10% dish washing soap with mine, it works great and cleans most all of the pitch off too.



Yeah Mark Sounds like a good idea , just hav'nt worked out how to get it into the hose mate :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:........Yeah in the container setup would be great , not sure what effect it would have on the bar oil . Cheers Manfred


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## Matildasmate (Oct 2, 2007)

*Should work as a chain cooler*



BobL said:


> I just realized I already have 2 holes (one on either side) at the end of my bar but only use one for the aux oiler at any one time which means the other could be used for cooling. Here is a plan that I'm thinking of trying.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah should work as a chain cooler , I just had mine dripping on the roller nose area to start with , worked no problem for cooling , but useless for dust control , yours should be an excellent cooler , I shifted mine to the powerhead so it would hit the sawdust as it come out of the log but without a spray instead of just pouring it on the bar it was (ok at best for dust control) worked well for cooling . Out of curiosity what program are you using for your diagrams , I use AutoSketch 8 , works well , but am always interested in new drawing programs . Cheers MM


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## BobL (Oct 2, 2007)

I'm milling outside mainly with green wood and usually on the west coast we have a breeze in one direction or the other so dust is not usually a problem for me. I'm more interested in using the water cooling to reduce the buildup of resin on the chain which on some of the gnarly red gums and tuarts I've milled. The resin buildup can double the amount of fuel needed to get through a slab. I've tried various things but this one sounds like the best solution so far.

RE; Drawing program. I'm just using the draw tools within PowerPoint. I started using PP back in 1994? and got plenty of practice using it for preparing lectures so now I find it the quickest thing for me to whip up sketches with. I then do a screen capture of the bit I want and convert it into a compressed jpg using a graphics program.


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## Matildasmate (Oct 3, 2007)

*Windy*



BobL said:


> I'm milling outside mainly with green wood and usually on the west coast we have a breeze in one direction or the other so dust is not usually a problem for me. I'm more interested in using the water cooling to reduce the buildup of resin on the chain which on some of the gnarly red gums and tuarts I've milled. The resin buildup can double the amount of fuel needed to get through a slab. I've tried various things but this one sounds like the best solution so far.
> 
> RE; Drawing program. I'm just using the draw tools within PowerPoint. I started using PP back in 1994? and got plenty of practice using it for preparing lectures so now I find it the quickest thing for me to whip up sketches with. I then do a screen capture of the bit I want and convert it into a compressed jpg using a graphics program.



They set up windmills near here , its been blown a gail here for the last few days , it gets really windy here this time of year (more than normal). I will have to check out powerpoint drawing .The water really works well on the resin buildup , chain stays real clean , you get minor amounts of resin on the side without direct water supply , I will take a couple of pics of the chain for you , I cut a full log with it , plus the other added benefits , lubrication , cooling and some dust control . Yeah I always try to cut green timber , I think your design , with water going on both sides of the bar , should be excellent , another flash BiL mill design mate , looking forward to pics of it working . Cheers MM:hmm3grin2orange:


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## Matildasmate (Oct 3, 2007)

*Pics of bar after cutting full log with water cooling*



BobL said:


> I'm milling outside mainly with green wood and usually on the west coast we have a breeze in one direction or the other so dust is not usually a problem for me. I'm more interested in using the water cooling to reduce the buildup of resin on the chain which on some of the gnarly red gums and tuarts I've milled. The resin buildup can double the amount of fuel needed to get through a slab. I've tried various things but this one sounds like the best solution so far.
> 
> RE; Drawing program. I'm just using the draw tools within PowerPoint. I started using PP back in 1994? and got plenty of practice using it for preparing lectures so now I find it the quickest thing for me to whip up sketches with. I then do a screen capture of the bit I want and convert it into a compressed jpg using a graphics program.



Here's the pic's Bob of bar , after cutting full log with water cooling. Cheers MM


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## BobL (Oct 4, 2007)

Matildasmate said:


> Here's the pic's Bob of bar , after cutting full log with water cooling. Cheers MM



Thanks MM - looks good!

Found a bit of brass rod to play with this evening and made up that cooler connection to the bar. The connection bolts to the bar in the unused aux oiler hole and squirts out over both side of the chain. Instead of holes for the water exit onto the bar I went for simple slots cut with a fine kerf metal cutting blade. Plenty of water seems to come through even though its only a 3/32" hole running down the middle of the bolt.






With Labels





With hose turned on just a touch.





Another view





Close up





I can't really try it until Saturday - will report back later. If it's successful I'll make a more precise one on the lathe, maybe with on board flow control.

Cheers


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## martrix (Oct 5, 2007)

Crikey, so does all this mean I can completely bypass an aux oiler when I make up my new mill, and just go with the water lube? Would be heaps cleaner.....


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## BobL (Oct 5, 2007)

martrix said:


> Crikey, so does all this mean I can completely bypass an aux oiler when I make up my new mill, and just go with the water lube? Would be heaps cleaner.....



Humm, I'm reserving judgement here until I see for myself. I think for a long bar an aux oiler will still be helpful in extending the life of your bar and chain. 

The main aim of my water cleaner is to keep as much resin off the chain when milling really gummy wood like red gum. Hopefully this will reduce the load on the motor, reduce fuel consumption and cut quicker. My set up has the water squirting over the outside of the chain as the chain approaches the nose, then the chain goes around the nose and reaches the aux oiler hole which delivers lube in the bar groove to get between the chain and the bar. Water blows crap off, aux oiler adds a bit of lube. 

There will also be situations where water is not available so an aux oiler will be a really god idea then.

Well that's the theory, beer time tomorrow will be an interesting review time of the practice.

Cheers


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## BobL (Oct 6, 2007)

*Water cooling*

Tried out the water cooler/luber/thingo today. 

Benefits:
- Definitely reduces dust.
- Keeps the chain and bar *very* clean
- Seems to reduce strain on the engine - uses slightly less fuel
- Can touch chain and bar immediately after turning of engine
There's a perception that it cuts faster but I won't really know until I try some really resinous logs.

Drawbacks
- Have to remember to turn off the water when finished or one side of the ground alongside log turns into a quagmire (see picture), it's opposite to the milling side and should be much less of a problem in summer.
- Uses water - not much just a slow drizzle seems to be as effective as a full jet, which then covers everything withing a 3 yard radius in wet sawdust.






Am I going to use it again? YEP, If I have access to I a hose then I think it's a winner. I'm planning to build it into my normal operations setting up a close by flow control instead of running back and forth to the tap etc .

Sorry no close up photos, will see if I can organize a movie for next week - not that there is much to see.

For now I'm leaving my aux oiler on but I have reduced it to use around half its normal oil output.


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## Matildasmate (Oct 6, 2007)

*Less drag*

Yeah sounds like a winner Bob . Yeah I noticed there was less drag to , can't say I noticed any difference in speed , csm's aren't real fast anyway eh , I also should have said in my original post , that the lubricating effect on the chain was actually basically what you said Bob , that the water actually keeps the chain clean , stopping it gumming up and acts as lube on the chain through the log , between the chain and timber surface's , rather than chain and bar surface's , it is definitely not a chain oil replacement . Should be good during summer , should keep the bar and chain a lot cooler . Look's like I will have to do some work on mine now? Doe's anyone have rough time's of ft a minute for their csm?


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## aggiewoodbutchr (Oct 7, 2007)

This is on my "TO DO" list now. It seems the idea has potential. Keep the progress reports coming. opcorn:


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## BobL (Oct 7, 2007)

RE; Water cooling. I have to say I was very skeptical whem MatildasM mentioned it first but my brief experience has been very very promising - thanks MM bowdown: ). 

For stationary/fixed CSMs I think its gonna be a real winner especially if a hose connection is nearby .

In terms of Alaskan mills, If there is no water supply handy my guess is that some people may not liked the idea of an extra weight of a water reserviour on their mill, or even the alternative of a hose attachment. The hose connection didn't bother me much and I think it will be a matter of getting used to it - I think its a better way to go than a water reserviour. There are certainly a few variables to test like, how much water is required, where's the best place to inject the water, is a pressurised deliver needed or will a dribble work just as well etc.

The dust level seemed to dropped quite an bit and it is interesting to see the saw spitting out clumps of damp sawdust in both directions compared to the usual chips and dust. It reminded me a little of the difference between milling a freshly cut down tree versus one that had been allowed to dry out a bit.

Cheers


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## martrix (Oct 7, 2007)

cool, very interesting Bob. Keep up the top research work!opcorn: 

Was there any issues with water being drawn inside the chain cover and getting inside the saw body?

I guess it wouldn't matter too much any way, theres not much thats going to rust in there.


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## BobL (Oct 7, 2007)

martrix said:


> cool, very interesting Bob. Keep up the top research work!opcorn:
> 
> Was there any issues with water being drawn inside the chain cover and getting inside the saw body?
> 
> I guess it wouldn't matter too much any way, theres not much thats going to rust in there.



Beware some of this is for memory opinion - I could be wrong:

From what I could see most of the water sprays across the sides and of the chain. This seems to take of the sawdust and resin. Some water is dragged along with the chain because you can see a thin pool of water building up along the cutting side of the bar - sometimes the pool dances around like it's boiling but its just the saw vibe as the water is still tap temp. Any water left on the chain as it cuts seems to be absorbed by the sawdust and what comes out at the sprocket end is damp sawdust. The sawdust left in the kerf is also quite damp

At the end of each slab, I put the mill ontop of the slab and leave the engine running for a minute or 2 to cool down. I removed the water hose from the mill, leave the aux oiler running and also pump on the manual oiler blipping the saw so the chain rotates and covers itself in oil. I figure this coats everything in oil and would help reduce any corrosion effect. 

At the end of the day I head straight for the compressor where I blow as much dust as I can off the saw and mill. There was no resin build up on the cutters and only lightly on the chain or bar although I did cut a couple of slabs without the water connection when I started so it's hard to say what caused what. Anyway, compared to previous days milling I'd say the chain was almost sparkling clean. As I like to have a clean chain before I sharpen so at a minimum this saves me chain cleaning time.

When I got home I removed the sprocket cover and it was no different to what I usually see. The compressor can't get in between the mill and the chain where there is a build up of oily sawdust as this is where the auto oiler is dumping a lot of oil. As usual I removed the mill from the saw and blow and wipe out all gunk. The part seems no different from what I have seen in the past.

As I said, most testing is needed to optimise the set up. I'm by nature a skeptic but the signs are very promising.

Cheers


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## BobL (Oct 7, 2007)

martrix said:


> cool, very interesting Bob. Keep up the top research work!opcorn:
> 
> Was there any issues with water being drawn inside the chain cover and getting inside the saw body?
> 
> I guess it wouldn't matter too much any way, theres not much thats going to rust in there.



Beware some of this is for memory opinion - I could be wrong:

From what I could see most of the water sprays across the sides and of the chain. This seems to take of the sawdust and resin. Some water is dragged along with the chain because you can see a thin pool of water building up along the cutting side of the bar - sometimes the pool dances around like it's boiling but its just the saw vibe as the water is still tap temp. Any water left on the chain as it cuts seems to be absorbed by the sawdust and what comes out at the sprocket end is damp sawdust. The sawdust left in the kerf is also quite damp

At the end of each slab, I put the mill ontop of the slab and leave the engine running for a minute or 2 to cool down. I removed the water hose from the mill, leave the aux oiler running and also pump on the manual oiler blipping the saw so the chain rotates and covers itself in oil. I figure this coats everything in oil and would help reduce any corrosion effect. 

At the end of the day I head straight for the compressor where I blow as much dust as I can off the saw and mill. There was no resin build up on the cutters and only lightly on the chain or bar although I did cut a couple of slabs without the water connection when I started so it's hard to say what caused what. Anyway, compared to previous days milling I'd say the chain was almost sparkling clean. As I like to have a clean chain before I sharpen so at a minimum this saves me chain cleaning time.

When I got home I removed the sprocket cover and it was no different to what I usually see. The compressor can't get in between the mill and the chain where there is a build up of oily sawdust as this is where the auto oiler is dumping a lot of oil. As usual I removed the mill from the saw and blow and wipe out all gunk. The part seems no different from what I have seen in the past.

As I said, most testing is needed to optimise the set up. I'm by nature a skeptic but the signs are very promising.

Cheers


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## woodshop (Oct 7, 2007)

This a very interesting thread... have to say at first I was put off by the whole idea thinking there would be a ton of "fine sawdust mud" everywhere, which could get pretty messy real quick. However from what you folks are saying, variables can be controlled as usual with a bit of tweaking. 

You folks are refining and reinventing the csm to a higher level.


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## Matildasmate (Oct 7, 2007)

*Slab thickness*



aggiewoodbutchr said:


> This is on my "TO DO" list now. It seems the idea has potential. Keep the progress reports coming. opcorn:



Hi Aggie Just wondering mate , I see in some of your pic's that you cut rather thick slab's . Is that to stop them warping , cupping and so on? or do you sometime's just make extra large cant's and turn them on there side later once dry and cut board's from them? or both or none? . I cut some timber for me neighbor some time ago now , he reckon's it's great , I said it look's like firewood , as I was cutting some of it up , it was bending like a banana by the time I got to the other end , as the stuff was drying , it twisted , cupped and all the rest of it , this stuff has a high shrinkage rate and also dry's flat out . The timber was similar to Tassie bluegum . Near the end , I cut some thicker slabs around 4" x 18" x 9'6" , apart from some massive splits , at one end , look's real good , straight , flat no twisting or bowing , no cupping . Cheers MM


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## BobL (Oct 7, 2007)

woodshop said:


> This a very interesting thread... have to say at first I was put off by the whole idea thinking there would be a ton of "fine sawdust mud" everywhere, which could get pretty messy real quick.



It depends where you connect the water and how much you use. I think MatildasM is connecting at the inboard end but as he is not standing near his saw - I think he uses a winch - its not so important for him.

I'm connecting to the outboard end - there is a small amount of sawdust mud made at that point. How much is made seems to depend on the amount of water used. At the end of the day the outboard end of the mill is covered with a fine spatter of the stuff but it blows off with a pass of the compressor.

The sawdust coming out at the sprocket cover is definitely damp and less dusty than usual but there is no mud at that end unless a heap of water is dumped on the chain. My guess is that there is no need to drill through the bar either and that the following would be just as effective.







Cheers


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## Matildasmate (Oct 7, 2007)

*Water dispersant , Rp7 etc.*

Hi Bob .......... Thank you skeptic .:greenchainsaw: :greenchainsaw: :greenchainsaw: . You did a good job of testing and explaining the idea Bob . As for the water causing corosion and rust , I can't see this being a problem either , I am on nightshift at the moment and have been going out during the day , cutting firewood . It has been raining a lot here , so I just keep cutting , or I don't get any wood (that's what wet gear is for) so everthing is wet and cutting green wood , I think it is pretty much the same thing , as a wet day and wet wood . At the end of the day , I just give the saw a quick clean and some Rp7 spray . Cheers MM


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## Matildasmate (Oct 7, 2007)

*Right next to me saw*



BobL said:


> It depends where you connect the water and how much you use. I think MatildasM is connecting at the inboard end but as he is not standing near his saw - I think he uses a winch - its not so important for him.
> 
> I'm connecting to the outboard end - there is a small amount of sawdust mud made at that point. How much is made seems to depend on the amount of water used. At the end of the day the outboard end of the mill is covered with a fine spatter of the stuff but it blows off with a pass of the compressor.
> 
> ...



I stand right next to me saw , as I have to have one hand on the trigger , I had mine set up with an adjustable flow valve , a cheap micro dripper , just started with a drip and finished with a flow of water , I had the water running on the chain , my rough test setup didn't control the dust very well though , I just had the flow going on one side of the bar , I think it need's to be set up on both side's of the bar , like Bob did . I am also going to try half circle micro jet's at the powerhead end again , soon as I get time , probably a couple of week's from now . Cheers mm


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## ASEMASTER (Oct 7, 2007)

*New Water Saw*

This thread got me going and I draged out some Hemlock that blew down in our spring storm, we needed some side boards for our trucks at work as I'm the mechanic there I would have to get them any way. 
Well I got set up and started to cut with the hose set at the nose end of the alaskan mill , did it work well as far as keeping the chain clean, cool and the dust down. the amount of water does change the speed of the cut, to much water will slow you down. I used enought to make the mud you speek of but this will dry out and I'm out of the way as to making a real mess is no problem.
I also got to use a home made tool designed by one of the other millers on this sight but cant remember his name . he used a unistrut and some bearings with a piece of 2" angle iron it also worked great as an edger. 
I even got pictures!


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## BobL (Oct 13, 2007)

Milled another log in the yard today - sorry no pics - pretty much the same as the previous couple of weeks activities. Experimented a bit more with water cool/lube. Turned the water up a bit more and achived sawdust mud that slowed the cutting down. Less was definitely better, for this 18" diam x 10 ft Box Brush log I was cutting it only needed a trickle to keep the dust down and the chain clean. 

Cheers


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## Matildasmate (Oct 13, 2007)

*water cooling*



BobL said:


> Milled another log in the yard today - sorry no pics - pretty much the same as the previous couple of weeks activities. Experimented a bit more with water cool/lube. Turned the water up a bit more and achieved sawdust mud that slowed the cutting down. Less was definitely better, for this 18" diam x 10 ft Box Brush log I was cutting it only needed a trickle to keep the dust down and the chain clean.
> 
> Cheers



That's interesting Bob , I wonder if it make's any difference which side of the log we use the water , like the powerhead side , I was just thinking , if it was used on the powerhead side , maybe the amount of water wont effect the speed , because by the time the water get's through the log on the other side of the bar and a certain amount of water flick's off of the tip , the amount of water still traveling along the bar , will probably be about right to do the job , also , as the chain goe's through the log on the opposite side with the water on the chain , the kerf will probably work as a chain scrubber as well , as you pointed out also , it look's like less water is better .


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## BobL (Oct 13, 2007)

Matildasmate said:


> That's interesting Bob , I wonder if it make's any difference which side of the log we use the water , like the powerhead side , I was just thinking , if it was used on the powerhead side , maybe the amount of water wont effect the speed , because by the time the water get's through the log on the other side of the bar and a certain amount of water flick's off of the tip , the amount of water still traveling along the bar , will probably be about right to do the job , also , as the chain goe's through the log on the opposite side with the water on the chain , the kerf will probably work as a chain scrubber as well , as you pointed out also , it look's like less water is better .



Good point, my water contacts the chain/bar on the non-cutting side of the bar just before the tip so a fair bit gets spun off at the tip. If there is too much water it pools on the bar. I just realised that yesterday I was milling on a light sideways slope angling down towards the powerhead. Some of the water from the pool on the bar was eventually running into the kerf - that may be why it was clogging up. Something was slightly off yesterday, the saw was maybe not really on song, chain maybe not as sharp as I usually have it, slightly harder log maybe or all three?


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## Matildasmate (Oct 15, 2007)

*Some testing done today*

Yeah I ran some more test's today , end result's were great , started off pretty crap though , I slabbed up some pine that was supposed to be done last year , not real good stuff , definitely not worth a photo , anyway I re-jigged the water system today , I connected it up to the hose this time , it's heap's better , to start with , I put the water flow on the chain at the power head end , on the return or cutting side of the bar , this was crap , ended up with a large build up of saw dust and crap going everywhere , I made a minor adjustment and moved it over to the other side of the bar the non cutting side , which made a huge difference , this worked really well , allowing the water to be dragged through the kerf , any excess just get's flicked off when it get's to the tip , I ran the water slow to start with , but ended up running the water quite fast , worked very well , can't say that I noticed any speed difference , well worth the effort . Cheers MM


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## Matildasmate (Oct 21, 2007)

*Done some more testing over the last few day's*



Matildasmate said:


> Yeah I ran some more test's today , end result's were great , started off pretty crap though , I slabbed up some pine that was supposed to be done last year , not real good stuff , definitely not worth a photo , anyway I re-jigged the water system today , I connected it up to the hose this time , it's heap's better , to start with , I put the water flow on the chain at the power head end , on the return or cutting side of the bar , this was crap , ended up with a large build up of saw dust and crap going everywhere , I made a minor adjustment and moved it over to the other side of the bar the non cutting side , which made a huge difference , this worked really well , allowing the water to be dragged through the kerf , any excess just get's flicked off when it get's to the tip , I ran the water slow to start with , but ended up running the water quite fast , worked very well , can't say that I noticed any speed difference , well worth the effort . Cheers MM



Hi Guy's I did some more testing over the last few day's , same result's , didn't do anything fancy , I just let the water run onto the bar , at the power head end , on the non cutting side of the bar mainly , work's a treat , more water the better , keep's the chain cool and clean , no idea whether it stay's sharp longer .


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## Matildasmate (Nov 17, 2007)

*some watercooling pic's*

some pic's of my watercooling system , very simple and doe's the job . cheer's MM


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## woodshop (Nov 17, 2007)

Interesting MM... I'd like to try this. Problem is most of the time I am milling with my csm I am not near a water source unless I take it along with me. Then I suppose I would have to put it under pressure. Possibility, but not sure the amount I would use it would justify the time taken to set it up. Once I get the log into cants the majority of my milling is with my Ripsaw. For somebody that has a sortof permanent setup like yourself, or maybe some logosol folks, it might be something they want to invest time in. The fact that you say it keeps the chain clean as well as cool tells me that it probably also then helps to keep it sharp to some degree.


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## Matildasmate (Nov 18, 2007)

*Water supply gravity fed*



woodshop said:


> Interesting MM... I'd like to try this. Problem is most of the time I am milling with my csm I am not near a water source unless I take it along with me. Then I suppose I would have to put it under pressure. Possibility, but not sure the amount I would use it would justify the time taken to set it up. Once I get the log into cants the majority of my milling is with my Ripsaw. For somebody that has a sortof permanent setup like yourself, or maybe some logosol folks, it might be something they want to invest time in. The fact that you say it keeps the chain clean as well as cool tells me that it probably also then helps to keep it sharp to some degree.


 Hi Dave ...... the water supply is only gravity fed from my 250 gal tank , which is about 180 yard's away . I have to say one of the thing's I also like , is the water bring's the grain up nicely . I cant say whether it keep's the chain sharp longer , too many variable's . Cheer's MM


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## woodshop (Nov 18, 2007)

Matildasmate said:


> Hi Dave ...... the water supply is only gravity fed from my 250 gal tank , which is about 180 yard's away . I have to say one of the thing's I also like , is the water bring's the grain up nicely . I cant say whether it keep's the chain sharp longer , too many variable's . Cheer's MM



So if I had a 55gal drum of water in the back of my van gravity fed to my csm, how many hours of milling would that feed? Guess it depends on how fast I feed the water. Yeah, just the psychological boost of seeing that nice beautiful grain in all it's glory right away when wet like that would be a plus.


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## aggiewoodbutchr (Nov 18, 2007)

woodshop said:


> Interesting MM... I'd like to try this. Problem is most of the time I am milling with my csm I am not near a water source unless I take it along with me. Then I suppose I would have to put it under pressure. Possibility, but not sure the amount I would use it would justify the time taken to set it up. Once I get the log into cants the majority of my milling is with my Ripsaw. For somebody that has a sortof permanent setup like yourself, or maybe some logosol folks, it might be something they want to invest time in. The fact that you say it keeps the chain clean as well as cool tells me that it probably also then helps to keep it sharp to some degree.



What about rigging up a garden pump sprayer with some longer hose? That way you can use the fan spray tip and keep it under pressure.


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## woodshop (Nov 18, 2007)

aggiewoodbutchr said:


> What about rigging up a garden pump sprayer with some longer hose? That way you can use the fan spray tip and keep it under pressure.



Ya know aggie I actually thought of that... thought one of those smaller 1 gal units would even sit right on the csm. Pump it up, turn on the valve and let her rip. Wouldn't even have to rig up a lot of plumbing, just rig it so that spray tip is "watering" the chain at the right spot. I'm curious to see how much cleaner the chain will be left. I still say, if it does keep things cleaner it has to then at least help keep the chain sharper longer. Of course now at least here in the NE we are getting freezing temps so I guess I'd have to be using window washer fluid to keep the whole thing from freezing solid. Don't want to use salt solution or calcium (as we used to use in our equipment tires for weight) for obvious corrosion problems.


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## BobL (Nov 18, 2007)

I'm using a flow rate of about 250 mL/minute but even as little as 125 mL/min can be useful but that maybe because I have the spray targetted directly at the chain. I've found too much water bogs the chain.


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## Matildasmate (Nov 19, 2007)

Hi Guy's ... I just run water flat out , only gravity feed pressure though , my guess about 2-4 litre's a minute , the chain stay's clean as . As you say though , you can adjust the flow to suit yourself . I generally adjust the tube to where I want it , when I start cutting , usually , on the return side of bar to kill some of the dust , with the amount of water I have running on the bar , it's not real important where the water is directed , as Woodshop said mine being basically a stationary mill , the amount of water I use is no problem , both side's of the chain remain clean , the kerf act's as a chain scrubber with the water . I will measure the flow tommorrow


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## BobL (Nov 19, 2007)

Matildasmate said:


> . . . . .I generally adjust the tube to where I want it , when I start cutting , usually , on the return side of bar to kill some of the dust , . . . .



If you spray the water onto the chain most of it is going to be bounced of the bar and chain. Having the water on the inboard return side of the bar means the water gets a chance to be thrown off the chain in the sprocket area. Does that keep the sprocket area clean?

Mine is on the non-cutting side of the nose. I only strike a problem if the flow rate gets too high and water pools on the bar. This results in a stream of water entering the cutting side of the kerf and making sawdust mud!


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## MJR (Nov 19, 2007)

Asemaster, I like the Hemlock pictures. The few times I played with Hemlock I got splitters in my hands. 

I should try water on my band mill blade – no wait….


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## aggiewoodbutchr (Nov 19, 2007)

MJR said:


> Asemaster, I like the Hemlock pictures. The few times I played with Hemlock I got splitters in my hands.
> 
> I should try water on my band mill blade – no wait….



I run water with dish soap on my bandsaw when cutting resinous woods such as pine, oak and a few others. If I don't pitch will build up on the band and bog the saw down.

You have to be careful what soap you use though. Some have ammonia in them that will corrode metal badly. I use spic-n-span with no phosphates or ammonia.


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## MJR (Nov 19, 2007)

I was just making a little fun. I always run water on my band blade. Cool clean blades are important. I am not sure why I never though of it for the CSM???

I don’t like the way soap/water cakes in my guards. (Maybe too much of a good thing?) I just use a steady drip of water.

I wonder how stale beer would work (bar tops?) or diesel/bar oil or…

Sorry - just playing around.


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## aquan8tor (Nov 19, 2007)

aggiewoodbutchr said:


> I run water with dish soap on my bandsaw when cutting resinous woods such as pine, oak and a few others. If I don't pitch will build up on the band and bog the saw down.
> 
> You have to be careful what soap you use though. Some have ammonia in them that will corrode metal badly. I use spic-n-span with no phosphates or ammonia.







what do you use for cleaning dirty bands that, say, someone didn't use any water/soap lube with?...... I have a couple bands from the ripsaw that are coated with some oak sap buildup; was cut in the spring & is a little gummy. I also have some that are really nasty from cutting some mulberry shorts on the shop bandsaw that I'm going to use for cutting boards; If you haven't seen it freshly cut, its like osage orange; it gets that ring of dense, thick, almost frothy looking white sap right after you cut it in the sapwood. The water cooling would have helped with that for sure. 








EDIT: don't laugh too much at the hack job on the stump cutting it flush. You can't do too good a job with a full wrap handle on. I thought it would be easier on the arms to switch left/right hand use (i'm pretty ambidextrous), but it just gets in the way. I took it off and put the other one back on. I guess there's a place for everything.


Damn, I'm thread hijacking. So anyway, I know that water lube/cooling is a common thing among bandsaws; its a little hard for me to imagine rigging something up for the ripsaw, as it in my mind would be a little ungainly with even a little water tank on top. If I ever get around to (finishing a bunch of other projects first) making some sort of stationary carriage for the ripsaw, I'll set it up. 
I want to try this with the big bar when I quarter a couple of big oak logs with the CSM soon. I have to fix the lewis winch that I F:LK'D up this summer before I can move the logs around. Gotta watch them or they wind up the line in the little space between the spool and the case.......Even with the 60" logrite, I can't budge it. 

even though it might get a little messy, this is great, as we have an open fire ban right now, and the little plate on the muffler that holds my spark arrester screen came off last week milling some spalted sycamore.(damn that stuff smells weird) The sparks were flying when I got close to the ground.


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## Matildasmate (Nov 19, 2007)

*Water flow rate*



BobL said:


> If you spray the water onto the chain most of it is going to be bounced of the bar and chain. Having the water on the inboard return side of the bar means the water gets a chance to be thrown off the chain in the sprocket area. Does that keep the sprocket area clean?
> 
> Mine is on the non-cutting side of the nose. I only strike a problem if the flow rate gets too high and water pools on the bar. This results in a stream of water entering the cutting side of the kerf and making sawdust mud!



Hi Guy's ...... my guess on the water flow rate , was mile's out , 2 litre's in 3min's 50sec's , close enough to 500ml a minute . As to your question about the sprocket area , na it doesnt keep it clean , I havnt found that to be any problem though . As to mud , the main thing is to have enough water running to wash away the mud and also keep the consistency of the mud as low as possible , basicly the same thing we do at work with wood pulp . When im milling , most of the crap end's up on my forklift , at the non power head end . One thing I did find out though , at the end of my milling day , I have to remove the bar and chain , to give it a good clean and spray with lube to stop any rust . I left it once for a couple of day's , not a good idea , started rusting fast , had I have left it for a week , I think the chain would have been stuffed . Cheer's MM


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## BobL (Nov 20, 2007)

Matildasmate said:


> Hi Guy's ...... my guess on the water flow rate , was mile's out , 2 litre's in 3min's 50sec's , close enough to 500ml a minute .



Even though it does not seem close that's still relatively close to my 125 - 250 mLs a minute. @ 250 mL/minute, a 20 L container gives you 80 minutes of milling time while @ 125 mL/min thats 160 minutes of milling time - as long as you remember to turn it off in between cuts.

Cheers


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## Matildasmate (Nov 20, 2007)

*Close*



BobL said:


> Even though it does not seem close that's still relatively close to my 125 - 250 mLs a minute. @ 250 mL/minute, a 20 L container gives you 80 minutes of milling time while @ 125 mL/min thats 160 minutes of milling time - as long as you remember to turn it off in between cuts.
> 
> Cheers



Close ya reckon ..... so ya wont mind selling me a couple thousand litre's of diesel then .:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


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## BobL (Nov 20, 2007)

Matildasmate said:


> Close ya reckon ..... so ya wont mind selling me a couple thousand litre's of diesel then .:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:



Yeah OK - you order and pay for 500 and I'll provide 125?


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## aggiewoodbutchr (Nov 20, 2007)

aquan8tor said:


> what do you use for cleaning dirty bands that, say, someone didn't use any water/soap lube with?...... .



I usually just put them back on the saw and make a few cuts with the soap/water and they clean right up. If they are too dull to cut with I'll soak them in WD-40 or mineral spirits to release the pitch.


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## woodshop (Nov 20, 2007)

aquan8tor said:


> what do you use for cleaning dirty bands that, say, someone didn't use any water/soap lube with?...... I have a couple bands from the ripsaw that are coated with some oak sap buildup; was cut in the spring & is a little gummy. I also have some that are really nasty from cutting some mulberry shorts on the shop bandsaw that I'm going to use for cutting boards...



I've been coiling mine up and dropping them in a 5 gal bucket of kerosene. I have so many that need sharpening now that I can let them sit there for 6 months or longer, which does soften up that pitch. Also keeps them from rusting while storing of course. A brass brush finishes off anything still left on the blade before I sharpen. You can fit more than 20 blades in a full 5 gal bucket. I put one of those plastic seat tops made to fit a bucket to keep the kero from evaporating.


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## BobL (Nov 24, 2007)

Thought you might like to see my water cooling setup on site.

37oc or 100F today on the milling site so having water around at least gave the impression of cooling something.

Hose from tap runs to a second tap (perched on top of the sack trolley). 









Second hose runs under log an connects to outboard side of mill.
This shows the typical water dribble rate and amount of sawdust made.











Just some purdy grain shots - log is Box Brush.


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## Matildasmate (Aug 22, 2008)

HI guys , just thought I would add a bit while I remembered , anyway my conclusion on water cooling , is that it cools the chain well , stops chain stretch , but seems to cause extra wear and tear on the bar , still worth useing over summer , but not needed during winter. It is cold enough here during winter , just wish the bloody rain would stop. Cheers MM


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## slabmaster (Aug 22, 2008)

Matildasmate said:


> HI guys , just thought I would add a bit while I remembered , anyway my conclusion on water cooling , is that it cools the chain well , stops chain stretch , but seems to cause extra wear and tear on the bar , still worth useing over summer , but not needed during winter. It is cold enough here during winter , just wish the bloody rain would stop. Cheers MM



I usually only mill in the late fall or winter,as i mill in the woods where i fell the trees.Can't stand the bugs any other time of the year not to mention the heat,which isn't good for the saw when milling anyway.Mark


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## Matildasmate (Aug 22, 2008)

slabmaster said:


> I usually only mill in the late fall or winter,as i mill in the woods where i fell the trees.Can't stand the bugs any other time of the year not to mention the heat,which isn't good for the saw when milling anyway.Mark



Hi Mark yeah I would like to mill in winter , I do when I get a chance , not very often now though , I am normally getting firewood this time of year , I normally get about 15 - 28 loads a year , depending on available time and energy , I am trying to stock pile enough green wood to dry out and keep in front , for thoughs times I cant get any , or cant go out . So that just leaves me with the warmer months to mill , besides getting me forklift bogged aint that great , gunna have to put more rubble down around the area , no problem in summer , ground is like cement then . Cheers MM


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