# chips and dump trucks



## priest

I was just wondering what the average weight of fresh chips is per cubic yard, for the purpose of design of a dumping chip box. 

Also, what's the advantage of having a heavy fuelhog of a chip truck like a GMC Topkick over just building a dumping box on a 1-ton? Is the extra truck justifiable or just overkill? How many yards of chips can a 1-ton handle, I wonder? I'd sure rather be cruising around town or cross-country for storms in a pickup with a Cummins diesel or a Powerstroke than chugging around in a big truck, even if I have to sacrifice a little capacity. 

I've got a GMC Topkick bucket truck that I was using to blow chips into before my chipper broke down. Great truck, but my goodness its like driving a Sherman tank around, and I only need the bucket on 10 percent of the jobs.

What do y'all think from your years of experience?

Thanks


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## Stumper

Chip weight is going to vary by species and the chip size and uniformity that your chipper generates but thef igure I hear bounced around is 550 lbs per cubic yard for green chips. This means that you can overload a 1 ton as far as rated capacity is concerned--- but in reality a One ton can handle a nice load of chips. My Intn'l 1654(Diesel) actually gets better milage than one of my Ford F250s (gas) but I agree that a pick-up is easier/more comfortable to drive. The big truck generates some business because of the "capable" look but I really think that a one ton chip truck makes the most sense for most of us who are "small" operations.


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## priest

Yeah, Stumper, the big trucks do look impressive. You should see the look on some of my clients' faces when I pull up to their house in that bucket truck. Three years ago I was driving an '84 GMC 1/2 ton that left a trail of black smoke half a block behind it and pulling a beat-up trailer with plywood sidewalls rattling in the breeze. All paid for though.


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## MasterBlaster

Pics???


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## Lumberjack

Justin is right, figure 550 a yard. 

I would figure in now more than 10 yards for a 1 ton, when/if I get a chipper, I will get a 6500 or better, its worth it.

One thought I had was to put the chipper on the 1 ton (remove the axle and make it as low as possible) then put air suspension in the back of the 1 ton to make it "kneel". Pull a dump trailer, you can tow way more than you can carry, and access with a dump trailer here isnt too bad. If you got creative you could make the chipper on a subframe that would allow you to take it off and on the flat bed of the 1 ton, and put it back on its axle, and tow it. 

It would take some work, but I think it could be worth it for a small rig. For a duty rig I think a 6500 or better is the way to go.


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## kf_tree

i'm from the other school of thought......buy the biggest baddest truck you can......putting a chip box on a one ton is flat out red neck.

correct me if i'm wrong but a ton is 2000lbs....so if green chips are 550lbs a yard wouldn't a 4 yard box be over loading the truck?

the old orange trucks with the man cabs are 12 yard boxs.....cut 2 feet off it......do think a 1 ton would handle that while towing a chipper?

trucks have a gvw for a reason.


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## Lumberjack

KF "1 ton" doesnt mean 1 ton of payload cap. Heck, a tundra can haul more than a ton. My 1 ton is rated to 5500 in payload (although the bearing cap of the rear is 10k). 10 yards would be overloaded, but not terribly so if all it hauled was a coupla chainsaws and chips.

If your getting a "chip truck" then I am for getting the biggest and baddest, paying out the rear for it now, and loving it for a LONG time. If your small time and a 1 ton is all you have, I say use it and save up. Bigger equipment carries more overhead.


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## priest

Yeah, I talked to a guy with a nice wheat truck for sale today (16 ft bed, 4 ft sides). Got to sell my big green monster first though, use that money to buy a decent chipper, and then maybe ask the bank for money for a chip truck or for building a dump bed on one of my pickups. If I had a stinking chipper that worked I could keep my big green bucket truck and life would be good.

Got the truck on ebay right now. What do y'all think I can get for a 96 GMC C7500 Topkick with the CAT diesel, 55 ft boom, 11 ft dump in good condition with 48k miles, approximately?


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## priest

Lumberjack,

I just now got it with the chipper mounted on the truck, pulling the dump trailer. That's a cool idea. And if you COULD pull the chipper off, that way you can use your truck without having to drive around with a huge chip box on the back of it. I like it, but it sounds expensive to have built, and I sure as heck couldn't do it myself.


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## kf_tree

no way.....are you trying to say i was wrong?........wow thats a first, i bow my head in shame.

then what the hell is the whole 1/2 ton 3/4 ton 1 ton thing all about? without further research i can't argue.



oh yes i can  ......if your one ton has a payload of 5,500lbs, would you feel comfortable driving that truck with 70 bags of concrete (80lb bags)in the bed?
that just seems like an awful lot of weight for a pick up truck. i'll tell ya what.....

go to home depot in the am and buy 70 bags and have them load it into your truck with a fork lift and drive around for a bit and then return them later in the day......then let me know what you think.


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## Lumberjack

GICON, I like your truck, and the folding (knuckle?) boom on it. But isnt alot of weight on the rear axle. Current 6500 can come with an optional 19k cap rear axle, seems like your taxing it when your fully loaded with chips/logs and towing.

Max GVW in the 6500 (current specs) is 26k pounds. 27.5 yards of chips weighs around 15k pounds.


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## magicmic

I did alot of looking around before i bought a truck.I used this website to get some advice.I ended up getting a 1993 gmc topkick with a 16' bed I decided against the mancab ,so i would have more space for wood.I love my truck.Its not that fast ,but it doesnt seem to slow down too much with a full load capacity ,and were talkin a heavy load.I figure you save in the long run with a big truck with less trips to the dump.Remember not only is it stressfull to the engine and brakes to go to the dump alot ,but it takes time and gas which is money.Sometimes i go three days without dumping once.I love it.You just have to make sure your getting enough money to make up for the sloww ride.Mike


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## Newfie

10 -12 yards of chips on a one ton is over the rated load capacity, but I do it everyday with no trouble in handling,braking or from the cops. I can haul the chipper as well when fully loaded.

I'd go with a bigger truck if you do a lot of big takedowns and/or have long hauls to empty your load.


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## Lumberjack

GICON said:


> The GVW is 35,000




Nice  then I have no problems with your rig, its SWEET!

Is the folding boom a crane or knuckle boom(with graple)? Whats it rated for?


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## Tree Machine

I've gone to maxxing out the minimum; staying deliberately small and efficient and effective.

I built a stand-alone box that can be plopped on the back of any flatbed pickup. One of the many advantages is that you can pretty much go anywhere a pickup can go. Having 4WD opens you up even more access.

The 'dump' is a conveyor floor, so there's no hydraulic accessories, no boxes that tip, etc. Designed into the thing is plenty of storage for the climbing and cutting essentials, and the ability to repair and maintain just about anything ONSITE that doesn't require welding.

Many of my client's want the chips, especially in the Winter. I have several local 'soil reclamation' sites, so my getting rid of chips is always local, always free. That's money in-pocket, Bubba.

It's a small system, but it steps up in a big way. Being able to drop a tree ON the truck, though I try not to do it, is an advantage. Pruning streetside trees from up on the walking deck, very nice. The side door (tool zone) that acts as shade, raincover, maintenence area.

The biggest advantage (other than the extremely low overhead) is that people seem to gravitate to the small guy. Apparently, being pretty is not all that important. I may look 'hick' but seemingly, nobody judges me based on that. Being highly organized and able to keep gear and saws maintained and sharp, fast setup, fast breakdown, the overall swiftness is a nice thing to have day after day. I don't have 'big quantity capacity' but my client's generally don't want a huge mountain of chips in their drive.

My system's not the best. It's just different.


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## Xtra

Here's a pic of my Isuzu FRR cab-over. It's a great truck for crowded city streets . . . you can turn the truck and chipper around in a residential intersection.

The truck weighs 11,500 & it's rated at 19,500. 
To the top of the sides it's 16 yrds. I designed the top. 
(I still need to get my logo on the sides)


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## MasterBlaster

That is one nice chip truck, Bob.


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## Xtra

Thanks.
For the work I do here in 'Jersey it's the prefect truck. The big forestry trucks are rough to maneuver on crowded streets.


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## Toddppm

I had just this morning got my signs mounted on my Isuzu finally. It's a NQR, when loaded with wood it's over capacity and risky to tow the chipper too but chips is no problem. It's GVWR is 17950 but have had 23k in it, oops  
It will be relegated to landscape duty if I ever get another truck just for tree work.


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## Toddppm

When I do get a sep. tree truck I'm leaning towards this truck like the other Crawfords Tree Service


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## Stumper

Nice rigs guys!


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## Kneejerk Bombas

The two strategies seem to be to try and have one truck do it all, like TM's rig, or have a big dump and then a chase truck to haul tools. The line clearance guys use a big dump with a bucket and tool boxes which is really a do it all.
Less than a third of the work we do involves a bucket truck, so we have a dedicated bucket, then a big dump, and a chase truck with tools. 
Having a tool truck is great. If you need to leave the site for some reason you don't have to haul the big stuff. If you get the dump stuck, you can pull it out. If you need a stumper the tool truck can haul it, if you don't finish, you can leave the truck and chipper on site, and on and on. 
It is another vehicle, so you have the additional costs, and you need another driver, but it sure is nice.


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## priest

Those are some classy and creative rigs, boys. How does that conveyor work, TreeMachine?
Here's the bucket truck I bought this spring. Don't know if I'll keep it or not. Back in February work was a little slow, so I passed out 250 flyers (sticking them in door handles), in one of our nicer neighborhoods with lots of trees. Had a surprisingly large number of calls, and rounded up about a dozen jobs all within a half mile of each other. That's when a big rig is super efficient.


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## murphy4trees

Around here the big boys keep getting bigger and bigger ship trucks
16' beds, 9' tall etc... those trucks can hold a mountain of ships.
I think that your truck should be able to handle a good days worth of chips, whatever that is for you. I've always found good equipment to be a good investment. You'll find a way to use it, and make $$$.


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## Xtra

Here's the truck I use for logs & tools, hooked up to a dump trailer I use to haul my grinder. 
I just bought the truck from a landscape guy who was downsizing due to a nasty divorce (word of caution, be nice to your wife if she's handling your books). I still need to remove his info off the truck.

The other pic is my F-350 and the dump trailer.
I was hired to clear 50+ trees from a horse farm. The previous owner had goats and they had eaten the lower bark off of most of the trees. 
The Isuzu's are horrible off road (their front ends sink). So I just loaded up the trailer connect my Ford and carried the loads across the pastures to a drop off site.


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## Tree Machine

Murph's got it right.


Murph said:


> your truck should be able to handle a good days worth of chips, whatever that is for you.


My approach was velocity over quantity. I truly wanted a small system. I just don't have land or space for anything bigger, unless I rented a place somewhere remote, and then costs and convenience would suffer.

I wanted to be able to off chips quickly, conveniently and just about anywhere. The thought of the conveyor appealed to me. Since I couldn't find anything out there in the industry, sorta had to start with a piece of paper.

Where was I going with this???


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## Tree Machine

Oh, yea, Priest had a question about how the conveyor works. Works great! Oh, mebbe you meant how does it _work_?

Right now the floor is a length of belt that is pulled off with a hand-winch. I had intended to have a powered system, with a manual backup winch-off. I started with the manual setup (plan B) and ran out of time and money and had to take the new rig out and get back to business. Plan B worked out so well that I never upgraded to the powered system. These pics show how it's being done now.


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## Tree Machine

Next week, it'll be way different. I have sourced a 27 RPM high-torque 12V gearmotor, and have sourced and priced the continuous belt. I'm woirking on the drive and tension rollers right now, and if all goes well, I'll be able to off a load without even stopping the truck.


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## Xtra

TM,
I like your idea of the overhead pulley. 
I could use something like that for large stump cuts (hmm, maybe with a detachable A-frame to work with my truck or trailer . . .)

That's great creativity making the sliding floor.


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## Tree Machine

Thanks, Bob. From the top, the armature is interfaced to the truck top with a swivel, like the kind on seats for fishin boats. This allows the arm to be swung 90 degrees to the left side of the truck for lifting logs or whatever.

I used to use a Petzl ProTraxion, like in the pic. These days I use a 2:1 Z-rig with a GriGri in the midst. allows you to lower things with precision.

I don't use it as much as I thought I would, but when it comes in handy, it REALLY comes in handy, mostly for lifting that last 100 kg of sawdust and crap at the end of the job. Use a sling to choker the tarp, lift er up and into the back. Right now, the conveyor hand winch is very much in the way, but once the powered conveyor floor is in, that winch gets stowed, and brought out only if needed, freeing up clearance in the back area. I'm getting quite excited about the whole thing. Wifey sees another $800 being spent and a couple more days off work, but the payoffs for the treeguy will be instant.


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## Xtra

Wow, a swivel. I would have never thought of that.
I use a lawn tractor wheel barrow for the chips and we hand load them into the truck or roll them onto the trailer. With an overhead pulley I could just hoist it into the truck. I think I see a new project for my next rainy day.


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## R Schra

*This is a Dutch style chiptruck  (not mine *






A dutch trailer manufacturer makes this. Its a Iveco light truck with a chip-trailer build on the back. The second axle is a trailor axle. The capacity of the trailor is 5.5 tons, netto 3.6 tons. You can drive this with a regular car and trailor driving license.

an other, This is a 7.5 tons, 5.1 ton load capacity truck.






This is a 7.5 tons, 5.1 ton load capacity truck.

here a example how the trailor is hooked up


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## ROLLACOSTA

Holy Cow !!!!!!!


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## iain

is there a www. address for this co


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## ROLLACOSTA

I'd see all that fabrication on a German or Japanese truck ,i'm trying to figure out how you get the chips out the truck it doesn't look like a 3-way tipper

just looked again ,i take it the chipper comes of the back,looks like a type of 5th wheel  ..looks like engineering for engineering sake


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## R Schra

www adres;

veldhuizen trailor building

And those chip bunks are tippable to the side, most to right side. And yes they are indeed a FIFTH wheel system!

They pick up with a king pin and the 'trailor' can sligthly move left/right for easier cornering. For our driving license its a great solution. We can with a car license drive to 3500kg gross weigth (including trailor we may not exceed that 3500kg), with extra trailor license we can drive 3500kg gross weight the base vehicle and extend with trailor weigth to base vehicle specs of towing capacity. So in case of this ITALIAN Iveco truck we can drive up to 7500kg with 'normal' car + trailor license. This sytem can be build on to every base vehicle thats available as cab/chassis. So on a mercedes LT, Volkswagen LT, Renault LT, Japanese LT, Korean LT and even USA trucks...( and yeah also on that brittisch LDV truck or landrover chassis if wanted ...)

Also those chippers hung at the back must be seen as LOAD, that weight has to be reduced on effective chip load capacity. They mount chippers self sustaned with a own engine OR with a PTO from the base vehicle connected to a extra build in gearbox in the driveshaft to rear axle.

Let me give some prices from the site,

trailor: ± 5,40 x 1,99 mtr. (size 8,50 x 1,99 mtr.)
(incl. kist) € *26.400,= * 

extra cost: - top 1,60 mtr. from bunk removable(with forklift ± 0,5 hr) €* 800*,=

- box behind cab 1,96x2,42x0,48 mtr. coated, shelfes and rolling hatches € *3.740,=*

- Iveco 40C17 with A.B.S. and difflock conversion to pullvehicle € *7.340*,=

- gearbox between driveshaft Iveco € *4.200,= * 

- Huzman H8 chipper (1000 kg) € *18.875,=*

- chipper removable(with forklift ± 1 hr) € *1.100,= * 

prices are in euro's. the base car is NOT included.


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## Thor's Hammer

I have driven chippers off truck pto's before, unless its a big gearbox its a bad idea. chippers by there nature have high shock loading on the drive, on a small ZF box like the iveco, its going to be shagged pretty quick.
its a nice idea, well put together, but for us its a none starter as uk licencing laws would mean you'd need a full class 1 (c+e) to drive that.


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## R Schra

Thor's Hammer said:


> I have driven chippers off truck pto's before, unless its a big gearbox its a bad idea. chippers by there nature have high shock loading on the drive, on a small ZF box like the iveco, its going to be shagged pretty quick.
> its a nice idea, well put together, but for us its a none starter as uk licencing laws would mean you'd need a full class 1 (c+e) to drive that.



I am aware of the limited strength of standard gearboxes. In this case they mount a extra pto-gearbox in the driveshaft as i believe. I think a 'normal' PTO on a van of this type can give 30Hp at max. Maybe they can increase output by using the gears and an extra fitted gearbox in that driveshaft. Biggerst problem will be heating up the tranny, running the gears at stand will heat that up quick.

Strange that we can drive it with B+E and you guys need a C+E for it... european 'standard' my A$$.


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## Tree Machine

Just spent a couple days working on my rig. I added 6 additional rollers to the floor and sourced the gearmotor drive. I put together a mock-up with plastic pipe, front and rear, so I could take a direct measurement and order the continuous conveyor belt.

I'm designing the mount (front end) for the gearmotor and drive rollers, and am half way through the fabrication of the adjustable belt tensioner off the back end.

Wish me luck. I spend 10-20 minutes right now. Stop the truck, hand crank off a part of the load, pull forward, repeat 4 or 5 more times, unhook the belt from the hand-crank and muscle the flat belt back into place.

When I'm finished with this project, I'll be able to off the load without even stopping (chip driveways). For putting down a pile, I'll be able to push a button and at 27 RPM and a 6" diameter drive roller, we'll just have to see how quick that'll be. Also, I'll be able to off partial loads, like if I have a full load, and the person only wants half. Before, there was no way to retract the belt with a partial load on, so they either got it all, or nothing (just like a dump-truck). Soon, there is no more 'retracting' the belt after a dump. It's a continuous conveyor, and it can go forward or reverse. When it's off, it's done

I am all excited about this. It's been a vision for quite a number of years that I haven't gotten around to fulfilling. I'll keep you in the loop as the elements are created.


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## ROLLACOSTA

Tree Machine said:


> Next week, it'll be way different. I have sourced a 27 RPM high-torque 12V gearmotor, and have sourced and priced the continuous belt. I'm woirking on the drive and tension rollers right now, and if all goes well, I'll be able to off a load without even stopping the truck.



Then will she get a deserved lick of paint ??


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## Thor's Hammer

Have you seen the 'walking floor' type chip trailers? very simple, very effective.


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## ROLLACOSTA

no but i have seen walking floors on suger beet trailers


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## Tree Machine

Walking floor? Please explain...


Rolla said:


> Then will she get a deserved lick of paint ??


You're so right, Rolla. Part of the 'big plan' was to create a world class arborist system that could be plopped onto ANY flatbed pickup truck. Just to push the point, I got a 1979 4 WD, which is what I'm using. I guess I've made the point that it's possible.

I'm deliberately keeping myself in a 'starter system' and amping it up to a level that would satisfy even the seasoned pro. 

I think the next truck I put under it will be a Land Rover, that way I might get some respect from my Brit friends, and the Kiwis and Aussies will think it's cool. Right now, I just need to give it a paint job, no doubt.... and pull out the dents in the doors and hood. I look like a total hick, but I promise you, this will change along with the automation. Thanks for the ribbing.


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## a_lopa

this one suits you t/m


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## Thor's Hammer

Look up walking floor trailers on google. they have 130 yard trailers over here for hauling chips.
BTW dont bother with putting it on a landrover, they cant take the weight.


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## ROLLACOSTA

Tree Machine said:


> Walking floor? Please explain...You're so right, Rolla. Part of the 'big plan' was to create a world class arborist system that could be plopped onto ANY flatbed pickup truck. Just to push the point, I got a 1979 4 WD, which is what I'm using. I guess I've made the point that it's possible.
> 
> I'm deliberately keeping myself in a 'starter system' and amping it up to a level that would satisfy even the seasoned pro.
> 
> I think the next truck I put under it will be a Land Rover, that way I might get some respect from my Brit friends, and the Kiwis and Aussies will think it's cool. Right now, I just need to give it a paint job, no doubt.... and pull out the dents in the doors and hood. I look like a total hick, but I promise you, this will change along with the automation. Thanks for the ribbing.



I agree with Thor a Landrover won't take the weight , i think you have a good idea there ,have you thought about takeing your idea to a truck body fabricator and making some do$h out of your idea ????..Landrover or no Landrover ,you do have respect from me  ,now give her a deserved lick of GREEN paint..  

Agood to truck to mount your system on IMO might be the truck version of a Toyota Landcruiser,i saw loads of the out in AUS


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## Thor's Hammer

I think pickup trucks are where the yank's really excell, european/jap pickups just dont compare. I've even considered a ford f150 myself. My favorite for that system would be an f250 with the cummins 8.2 turbodiesel....


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## ROLLACOSTA

I would like a Yank truck if i could get one right hand drive ,only place for these i beleive is OZZ ,wifes relative over there has a F150


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## tophopper

TM- your rig is neat, but kinda scary lookin. I would cringe if I were a homeowner and my hired contracter pulled up in that. You should maybe upgrade to a chopped school bus or something.

No offense intended.


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## Thor's Hammer

tophopper said:


> TM- your rig is neat, but kinda scary lookin. I would cringe if I were a homeowner and my hired contracter pulled up in that. You should maybe upgrade to a chopped school bus or something.
> 
> No offense intended.



Thats what I would think, but a cheap  (sorry tm) looking outfit will sometimes attract a lot more work than a proffesional expensive one  
Myself, I like to spray all my equipment and signwrite it


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## Caledonian

R Schra said:


> A dutch trailer manufacturer makes this. Its a Iveco light truck with a chip-trailer build on the back. The second axle is a trailor axle. The capacity of the trailor is 5.5 tons, netto 3.6 tons. You can drive this with a regular car and trailor driving license.
> 
> an other, This is a 7.5 tons, 5.1 ton load capacity truck.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a 7.5 tons, 5.1 ton load capacity truck.
> 
> here a example how the trailor is hooked up



R Schra,

I am just back from a Tech. training course at Nido Holten, stayed at De Rijssrrberg in Rijssen. Really nice area. Saw some other similar equipment too, we do not see that type in UK (to my knowledge).
Some lads at Stirling council were prosecuted before Christmas for driving these pickup type arctics without class 1 license. They have appealed, I believe?
Which part of Holland are you from?


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## Thor's Hammer

I looked at the fifth wheel pickup trailers, They insist on a class 1 for them, cant see their appeal going through...


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## MasterBlaster

It amazes me how that chipper just hangs on the back of the truck. That's wild, you don't see that in the states.


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## R Schra

Hi,

I cant figure out why a fifth wheel needs a class 1 license? Does that also apply to those usa trucks with fifth wheel caravans? 

Here its 'simple' 

A= motorcycle
B= passenger/lighttruck till 3500kg incl load
C= truck >3500 kg incl load
D= bus >8 passengers (8+1driver is still B license)
E= trailor

So with a base vehicle thats registerd for 3499 kg incl. load you can drive it with a B license. When pulling a trailor you need additional the E license. Those two combined give right to drive these trucks overhere.

As for the chipper, its build onto the fifth wheel trailor and not direct on the van.

Caledonian, I was born and rased the first 18 years about an hour drive from rijssen. Nido is a wellknown manufactuer of salt (streuer?) and snowplows and road brushes. Had to update machinery or training in new stuf?

These days (last 14 years) i live in the SW part of the Netherlands. see map attached :Eye:


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## Thor's Hammer

R Schra said:


> Hi,
> 
> I cant figure out why a fifth wheel needs a class 1 license? Does that also apply to those usa trucks with fifth wheel caravans?
> 
> Yes those too. any thing with fifth wheel or trailer in excess of 750kgs behind a truck larger than 3500kgs


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## R Schra

Thor's Hammer said:


> Yes those too. any thing with fifth wheel or trailer in excess of 750kgs behind a truck larger than 3500kgs



I looked up some regulations in the UK.

UK rules drivers license 

As i read it you can drive these <3500 MAM vehicles with a fifth wheel as told by *CARS*. Its verywell to compare those regs with ours here. Again, that base vehicle as shown is registerd <3500kg for B cat license. With a trailor (E) license you comply to the specs told in that part for *CARS*. It says loud and clear to me that you can drive a <3500kg vehicle with a >750kg trailor with B+E license. 

Ronald


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## Thor's Hammer

It looks correct, but the fifth wheel hitch buggers it. Have to have c1+e for 5th wheel hitch trucks...
might be worth looking into though


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## Caledonian

R Schra,

New 'Streuer' technical training. Only 48 of them released world-wide at the moment, only one in Scotland, we have hundereds of the last model though.


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## priest

*chip truck to be*

This is an F-550 purchased 2 weeks ago and about to have a chip bed installed. I hope it will serve my needs well being small enough to drive around town easily, but heavy-duty enough to handle a good load.

The chip bed will be custom built to have permanent 42" sides starting at and even with the head board. The permanent sideboards will slope down halfway back on the bed to 24". A double barn-style swinging gate will serve as the tail-gate. This will suffice for small loads of chips or loads of logs, without catching too much Oklahoma wind on the highway or sacrificing vertical clearance under trees, etc. There will also be a platform extending about two feet over the cab to stand on for trimming trees with a pole saw.

Additional removable sideboards will be placed on top of the permanent sideboards to extend the sides to 60". A removeable front chip deflector will be in place, sloping up to 72", and forming a horizontal ceiling back 4' (all bolted on for easy switch-out).

Still trying to come up with creative ways to customize it for storage of tools, ladders, and just overall functionality. I could have a steel cab cage built, but I don't want it to look too hoky.

The truck will still have the capacity to haul a gooseneck for pulling skid steerers down to battle hurricanes and things like that.

Throw any ideas or criticisms you have my way. Fabrication starts Monday and the welder is up for creative challenges.

Thanks


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## diltree

Greg I would go with the F-450....an F-550 is overkill in my opinion. If you really want to make a cost effective decision, you should get rid of your pick up and get an F-450 one-ton dump with a steal removable chip box (your knuckle boom could easily remove the box or place it on) These Trucks are extremely versatile, they are heavy duty enough to haul a good load of chips or logs, great for delivering firewood, you can take the box of in the winter and plow with the truck, and they are allot smaller then an F-550, a great chip truck for back yard jobs, both lighter weight and 4x4 contribute to less lawn damage then the bigger rigs. You can also cruise your f-450 around town and price jobs. You need the big chip truck for the bigger jobs, but i think the pick up truck should be replaced by a F-450, the pickup does not offer the versatility of a F-450 dump and a F-550 is overkill. Haveing the extra chip truck also gives you the ability to run multiple crews with your back up chipper....which you may not see as an option now but if we get a storm, you could make a fortune designating two guys and your one ton with back up chipper to clean up downed trees and limbs. I can also give you the name of a guy in our area that custom builds steel chip boxes for our one tons. The boxes are removable and really nice looking as well.


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## diltree

I see your point.....but an f-550 is a pretty big truck while a F-450 will still provide you with some of the advantages of a smaller truck, example: residential snow plowing, Getting into tight spots, using the truck as a mode of transportation when pricing jobs, better in back yards


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## Tree Machine

*Less is more*

What if an F-250 4x4 had a beefed-up rear suspension. If you're only pulling a 6 or 9" capacity chipper, with the occasional full load of chips, is is necessary to have more? F-250's have the Allison transmissions, don't they? How big do you really need to go? 

This all totally depends on your specific needs.

Pickup trucks in these 'flatbed' ranges (for us) are multipurpose utility arborist trucks. Big chip trucks, and crane trucks and bucket trucks with chip dumps, those are a total seperate something else. These 'pickups', ask yourself what do we use them for? For towing trailers or a chipper, stowing our gear and a place for chips.

If this multipurpose rig is going to be driving you on occasional errands and to do estimates the fuel costs can soar. I can appreciate 'go big or go home', but there's a certain place for that. I'm not entirely convinced bigger is better. I can see advantages, but I can weigh disadvantages. Chips aren't that heavy and it's difficult to put on enough firewood to challenge a modded rear suspension. Ability to squeeze into tighter spaces is one of the most important things for me, ability to command odd terrain. And be economical and versatile.

It really depends on the chipper you're towing. Big chippers demand bigger trucks.


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## Tree Machine

Oh.


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## Tree Machine

All I've ever employed in my treecare have been regula,r people-sized pickups. I really don't know what I'm talking about on bigger models because I've just never used these bigger, musclier, hungrier trucks.

All I've ever driven (other than my early noob years) have been flatbed pickup trucks. I don't even know if they're 1/2 ton or 3/4 ton, and I've never had duallys. I do have 4 WD.

My current truck, which is a sacrificial test dummy, is a 1979 flatbed with fat tires. This truck does everything I need and it was paid off in a week of jobs and continues to get me around almost three years later. 

If I had an F-250 under me, I'd be in hog heaven.

If I had the truck in this picture, I'd be over-muscled for all practical purposes, but 'too much' is always better than 'not enough'.


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## Stumper

Jim, An F250 can pull a big chipper and a load of chips-I've done it-But technically it is overloaded and the handling-particularly braking is affected. In the flatlands of cntral Indiana it would be doable if not ideal. Moving up to a 1 ton makes an enormous difference. With a big box you may be able to exceed the GVWR but the the truck has actual capacity to spare. I wound up with my big chip truck when I was actually looking for a 1 ton. It is kind of ironic- the one ton would haul almost as much, maneuver into tight quarters better and cost less to license.......but the big truck draws business like crazy.


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## topnotchtree

for a tailgate I would make one solid gate all the way across. frame the gate with square tubing or the like, and use steel mesh instead of plate steel. Lighter and less wind resistant. I will try to post a pic of my tailgate soon.


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## Tree Machine

Thanks, Stumper. I re-read this entire thread and have a better grasp on how things are sized. I particularly enjoy your last line ".......but the big truck draws business like crazy." I'm glad it works that way for you.

I've always felt that having the smaller rig was what drew business like crazy. They see small and they think 'low overhead'. They think 'less expensive than the big companies'. They see that less money was poured into the transportation, and more money poured into the tools that will be doing the work on their trees. And there's something about people wanting to support the 'little guy'.

Ultimately, I have gotten a lot of (unexpected) positive feedback on the organization of my tools. That appeals greatly, especially to folks who use tools. Even the ladies give me the occasional, "Wow, you're really organized." Apparently, this impression is important to people.


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## Tree Machine

topnotchtree said:


> for a tailgate I would make one solid gate all the way across. frame the gate with square tubing or the like, and use steel mesh instead of plate steel. Lighter and less wind resistant. I will try to post a pic of my tailgate soon.


I'd like to see that. I chose not to use hinges for specific reasons. It would be great to see what you've got.

I added a fairly cool chain sharpening rig to that big, thick, fold-down oak plank. I've gotta dig that up. It's nothing remarkable or new, just a twist on an old idea that I think a lot of you might really like.


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## topnotchtree

Been awile since I posted pics. Hope this works.


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## topnotchtree

A few more. We used 1 inch angle iron to frame the gate. It is admittedly a little flimsy, I would have used heavier angle iron but 1 inch is what we had to work with. The hinges took awile to design and build, but they work well.


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## Tree Machine

It works. I like it. Your hinges allow you the full 270 degree swing and you can remove it entirely if you wish. It sure doesn't look flimsy. I appreciate the thought you put into that. Nice work.


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## topnotchtree

Thanks TM, getting some tool boxes on that truck and a coat of paint is next on the "things to do" list. We just had to make the post where the hinges are sturdy enough to hold the weight of the gate at full swing. We built the sides on the bed permenantly, and the top of the chip box unbolts off like a truck cap. That way the truck can be loaded from the sides if I need to haul topsoil or such. Wood chips will not go thru the gate, but I have to tarp the gate to haul sand or the like.


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## priest

*F-550 pretty much done*

Here's the truck I've finally got completed. The sides are removeable, as are the expanded metal extensions. I'm going to install a higher-reaching deflection shield now that I have seen how much I can increase my chip capacity with one. It will be hinged so that it lays flat on the top of the sides but can be raises to deflect chips down into the bed to increase capacity. 
Please refer tree jobs to pay for all this shi*.


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## Tree Machine

With chip capacity being your goal, I say you get an *A*!


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## topnotchtree

She looks very pretty. Oh, and the truck looks good too.


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## TreeJunkie

Priest, 

Nice looking truck. Who built the box? What did a box like that cost to build. I was shopping for similar unit a while back and some of the quotes to build a box and put on new dump kinda scared me off.


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## priest

An equipment company nearby installed the hoist and built the box. Everything turned out pretty good in the end. 

Unfortunately, I can't recommend the company because the hoist was severely flawed when I went to pick up the truck the first time. The bracket they mounted it on was under such torque that when the hoist was raised it would visibly twist and appeared it would break.  Very dangerous. And that was with no load in it. I made them redo it correctly. Plus they exceeded their timeframe for completion of the job by over two weeks.

The bill was for close to $5000 after tax, but we agreed on $4500 total due to all the headaches. 

The hoist is a Bulldog 10-ton and is $2100 for the kit. $1700 for the box (painted), plus extras like the platform over the cab, the sheet metal to mount signs on, re-doing the trailer hitch so the bed won't hit it when it dumps, etc. 

It only dumps to about 40 degrees, which is really a little inadequate. I wanted it to dump to at least 60 degrees, but they could not install the hoist that far toward the rear without interfering with my 5th wheel mount. And I've got to have that (the sides come off so I can use it to haul a 5th wheel trailer). But it does dump most of the load on its own, and the rest comes out with a few encouraging pokes with a long pole (not that pole, you sick bastards).

I had a hard time finding anyone that would install the hoist, so I can't tell you where to go for that. But I strongly recommend that wherever you go for any work of this nature you get a written, itemized estimate that includes the anticipated timeframe and explains how the bill will be adjusted if they don't fulfill their promises.


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## Tree Machine

That's good advice, Priest, and can be applied to a lot of different scenarios. Folks fail to realize that tying up your gear cripples your business and costs you money above and beyond that of what you're spending with them. Your signed estimate, and details, is a written contract. If they're working under contract and realize the repercussions of their delays, they're more likely to stay on task with your project.


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