# 3120XP Gone WILD



## blsnelling (Oct 12, 2009)

She's back from the dead and running like a champ. This is a 32" bar with full-comp 3/8 chain. The saw's wearing an 8-pin sprocket. The wood is solid Oak.

You'll notice during the last cut when I dog it in, the saw kind of pops and hesitates in the cut. After that cut when I rev the saw, it's obvious the saw is too lean. I didn't make another cut. I'll be reaming out the jet a couple more sizes and then trying it again. I'll probably go to about 1.30 mm, maybe 1.28 mm.

This beast is strong though! I'm very pleased.


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## Evan (Oct 12, 2009)

stop it your kiln me:greenchainsaw:

looks very good.
didnt i hear a slight burble??


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## troutfisher (Oct 12, 2009)

Brad I drilled a carb on a 3120 and it started getting way too rich around .055.


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## Andyshine77 (Oct 12, 2009)

Evan said:


> stop it your kiln me:greenchainsaw:
> 
> looks very good.
> didnt i hear a slight burble??



At first yes, but as soon as it heated up, it went much too lean for a big saw like that.


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## blsnelling (Oct 12, 2009)

troutfisher said:


> Brad I drilled a carb on a 3120 and it started getting way too rich around .055.



I went to about .051 and it still ended up going lean. I was planning on going up to .055 next. I'd actually like to see it go a little rich at this point.


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## JT78 (Oct 12, 2009)

I have to agree a saw that big is better off a little rich.


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## troutfisher (Oct 12, 2009)

yup, a little rich is best. Just wanted to share what I found, You may be getting close.


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## blsnelling (Oct 12, 2009)

troutfisher said:


> yup, a little rich is best. Just wanted to share what I found, You may be getting close.



I appreciate the input. Its reassuring to know I'm in the ballpark.


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## gink595 (Oct 12, 2009)

Can't you get an adjustable carb for it? Kinda blows it doesn't have one.


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## woodgrenade (Oct 12, 2009)

*Nice work*

Very impressive.


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## JT78 (Oct 12, 2009)

Hey Brad dont mean to hijack your thread but thanks for the advice on my 7900 I ended up being able to widen the exhaust to about 32mm wide I left about .030 on each side of the piston. Again just wanted to say thanks.


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## outdoorlivin247 (Oct 12, 2009)

How does it compare to your 084?...


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## Tzed250 (Oct 12, 2009)

The larger the piston crown the more important it is to keep it cool. This is why 500cc dirtbike engines are jetted on the rich side. Fuel is coolant...


.


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## Hddnis (Oct 12, 2009)

Looks like it's running good. Treeco should really enjoy making money with that beast. 

I don't know if he'll be stumping with it, but if he is rich is better. Dogging in on a big stump is harder on a saw than milling, IMO. Dirt, dust, warm air being pulled back through the saw, rotten center wood that is like glue, I've seen stumps burn up more saws than anything else. A good operator can mitigate a lot of that, but it takes knowing a saw and treating it real well.



Mr. HE


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## blsnelling (Oct 12, 2009)

JT78 said:


> Hey Brad dont mean to hijack your thread but thanks for the advice on my 7900. Again just wanted to say thanks.


You're welcome.



outdoorlivin247 said:


> How does it compare to your 084?...


I'm scared to find out, lol. This thing is STRONG!

I reamed the jet out to about .055". The barely kept it from leaning out. No more popping like you heard in the vid. Actually that was gone at .050". I've now taken it out to .057-.058". I suspect that's where I'll leave it. What a pain though. This thing desparately need an adjustable carb!

Thanks for the input guys. I appreciate it.


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## eyolf (Oct 12, 2009)

Hey, great video. This is a good one for noobies that aren't quite sure what to listen for when tuning a carb. Maybe I run stuff on the ragged edge of rich, but I could hear "lean" even when not in the cut...that high-pitched "peenty" sound, rev a little too fast.

Does that saw have a limited coil?

Hddnis: _I don't know if he'll be stumping with it, but if he is rich is better. Dogging in on a big stump is harder on a saw than milling, IMO. Dirt, dust, warm air being pulled back through the saw, rotten center wood that is like glue, I've seen stumps burn up more saws than anything else. A good operator can mitigate a lot of that, but it takes knowing a saw and treating it real well._

Yes. Yes! I've only had one spectacular saw siezure, and it was exactly that circumstance. Good point.


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## FATGUY (Oct 12, 2009)

man that's a lot of wood getting out of the way of that saw


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## Brian VT (Oct 12, 2009)

I'm a newb to saws but some of us seem to have that feel for when something ain't right with an engine. I've seen so many just guys go on and blow stuff up and then be pissed off at the machine.


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## blsnelling (Oct 12, 2009)

eyolf said:


> Does that saw have a limited coil?



You could not run this saw with a limited coil. It's pulling 11,200 in the cut.


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## blsnelling (Oct 12, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> I'm up for an adjustable carb if you can find one.
> 
> Any idea what one cost?
> 
> I too thank everyone for their input!/



I'm going to need some help here guys. I do not recall ever reading of a source for a fully adjustable carb for a 3120.


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## Jacob J. (Oct 12, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> I'm going to need some help here guys. I do not recall ever reading of a source for a fully adjustable carb for a 3120.



The early 3120s had a fully adjustable carb.


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## blsnelling (Oct 12, 2009)

Jacob J. said:


> The early 3120s had a fully adjustable carb.



Any idea what model it was and if they can be purchased now?


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## 04ultra (Oct 12, 2009)

http://wem.walbro.com/walbro/product2.asp?Series=WG&partnum=WG-8-1


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## Jacob J. (Oct 12, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> Any idea what model it was and if they can be purchased now?



According to my handy parts CD from 1998, it's a Walbro WG-6...My parts list for the 1998 3120 also shows a WG-7 on the EPA model saw, but I'm not sure if that one was fully adjustable (I'm thinking not.)


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## Erick (Oct 12, 2009)

Jacob J. said:


> According to my handy parts CD from 1998, it's a Walbro WG-6...My parts list for the 1998 3120 also shows a WG-7 on the EPA model saw, but I'm not sure if that one was fully adjustable (I'm thinking not.)




Just rebuilt a WG-6 on a 3120 and it was a fixed jet.


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## blsnelling (Oct 12, 2009)

I think Baileys sells a WG-8 that has a fixed jet. The IPL that Ultra posted clearly shows a H needle though. Maybe the WG-8-1 has the H needle. The carb runs about $100.


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## capeferrelo (Oct 12, 2009)

Take a look at what 004Ultra posted....Walbro list a new WG8 carb on their website for about $93. Looks to be fully adjustable, as those carbs are used on ultralight aircraft as well as saws.


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## Jacob J. (Oct 12, 2009)

Erick said:


> Just rebuilt a WG-6 on a 3120 and it was a fixed jet.



Maybe it's the WG-7 then, the IPL clearly shows a fully adjustable carb.


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## blsnelling (Oct 12, 2009)

Here what the plug looks like with the jet at .055". I've got it at .057" now, but haven't cut with it yet. The color looks good here, but it still didn't sound quite rich enough to me. One side is a little darker than the other. It's not just the lighting. This was the last cut I made, the saw was dogged in hard under max load, and I hit the kill switch at WOT. I do not tune by plug color, but is nice to see it agree with your tuning.


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## 04ultra (Oct 12, 2009)

http://www.chainsaws-etc.com/walbro_whg_carburetors.htm




might want to call and ask them.....




.


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## blsnelling (Oct 12, 2009)

04ultra said:


> http://www.chainsaws-etc.com/walbro_whg_carburetors.htm
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I saw that in my quick Google search. That's a good price. I'll try to give them a call tomorrow.

TreeCo, how much are you willing to spend for an adjustable carb?


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## NPKenny (Oct 12, 2009)

Brad, would you mind showing a picture of the jet being reamed. I've got a good idea of the process, but would like to see a picture just to verify.

Thanks.


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## blsnelling (Oct 13, 2009)

NPKenny said:


> Brad, would you mind showing a picture of the jet being reamed. I've got a good idea of the process, but would like to see a picture just to verify.
> 
> Thanks.



I'm hoping not to have to take it out of the carb again It's very small. I initially drilled it with a .0465 drill. Since then I have been using a diamond reamer to go bigger. I ream it from both sides to help take the taper into account. LINK


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## Andyshine77 (Oct 13, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> Here what the plug looks like with the jet at .055". I've got it at .057" now, but haven't cut with it yet. The color looks good here, but it still didn't sound quite rich enough to me. One side is a little darker than the other. It's not just the lighting. This was the last cut I made, the saw was dogged in hard under max load, and I hit the kill switch at WOT. I do not tune by plug color, but is nice to see it agree with your tuning.



It looks too hot for stump work, but at 1,100ft it will likely be just right or maybe even a little rich. I'd still look for a fully adjustable carb, that would resolve the the issue for good.


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## wigglesworth (Oct 13, 2009)

It's hard for me to believe that they even put a non adjustable carb on such a saw. What were they thinking??? Maybe they were thinking P&C=$$


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## MR4WD (Oct 13, 2009)

wigglesworth said:


> It's hard for me to believe that they even put a non adjustable carb on such a saw. What were they thinking??? Maybe they were thinking P&C=$$



They were thinking "rev limited and run it rich" to meet EPA regulations. They are great saws, but so much more is available when you can open up the breathing.

In any capacity, search "3120" on this site. I know a carb with an adjustable high's been brought up at least twice.

If I wasn't so tired, I'd find it


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## wigglesworth (Oct 13, 2009)

MR4WD said:


> They were thinking "rev limited and run it rich" to meet EPA regulations.



I thought EPA was all about Lean, not rich??


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## 04ultra (Oct 13, 2009)

Just remember that 3120 OEM P/C's are spendy if you have a problem like this....






.


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## 04ultra (Oct 13, 2009)

Always nice to have OEM spare parts around .......





.


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## MR4WD (Oct 13, 2009)

wigglesworth said:


> I thought EPA was all about Lean, not rich??



Yeah, me too. Evidently you need a saw with a fixed jet to run rich at sea level so it can run lean at 10,000'. I guess that's where the rev limiter comes in. I'd imagine the saw's probably submitted for testing with an unlimited coil and a fixed jet. Then the coil's been added after the fact for "user safety" or something.

Anytime I've run a stock husky 3120, it's smelled rich.

Anyways, here's the thread I was thinking of, might not be as much help as I thought:

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=102741&highlight=3120


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## MR4WD (Oct 13, 2009)

04ultra said:


> Always nice to have OEM spare parts around .......
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I've heard mixed reports. Are the chainsaw cylinders the same as cutoff saw cylinders? (3120K)


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## 04ultra (Oct 13, 2009)

MR4WD said:


> I've heard mixed reports. Are the chainsaw cylinders the same as cutoff saw cylinders? (3120K)



No idea .....Mine was ordered in locally for chainsaw by a guy that put nice down payment and never returned ........After a year they sold it to me .......Its been three years and they never had him come back in....





.


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## MR4WD (Oct 13, 2009)

04ultra said:


> No idea .....Mine was ordered in locally for chainsaw by a guy that put nice down payment and never returned ........After a year they sold it to me .......Its been three years and they never had him come back in....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



PM me if you're interested in parting ways with it


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## 04ultra (Oct 13, 2009)

MR4WD said:


> PM me if you're interested in parting ways with it



Sorry .........I have two running 3120's and one nice complete parts saw........It will sit on my shelf till needed..........





.


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## Andyshine77 (Oct 13, 2009)

MR4WD said:


> Yeah, me too. Evidently you need a saw with a fixed jet to run rich at sea level so it can run lean at 10,000'. I guess that's where the rev limiter comes in. I'd imagine the saw's probably submitted for testing with an unlimited coil and a fixed jet. Then the coil's been added after the fact for "user safety" or something.
> 
> Anytime I've run a stock husky 3120, it's smelled rich.
> 
> ...



If you lean out a saw to get it to run clean enough for the EPA, it may rev so high it will blowup, the limiter keeps the WOT rpm's in check.


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## Nitroman (Oct 13, 2009)

Go here:

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=102741


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## leeha (Oct 13, 2009)

MR4WD said:


> Yeah, me too. Evidently you need a saw with a fixed jet to run rich at sea level so it can run lean at 10,000'. I guess that's where the rev limiter comes in. I'd imagine the saw's probably submitted for testing with an unlimited coil and a fixed jet. Then the coil's been added after the fact for "user safety" or something.
> 
> Anytime I've run a stock husky 3120, it's smelled rich.
> 
> ...



If it's running rich at sea level it would
be much more richer at 10,000 ft not leaner.
The higher in elevation the less oxygen.


Lee


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## gink595 (Oct 13, 2009)

leeha said:


> If it's running rich at sea level it would
> be much more richer at 10,000 ft not leaner.
> The higher in elevation the less oxygen.
> 
> ...



Yup, experienced that first hand on a motorcycle trip out to Yellowstone, We rode up to Beartooth Pass in North Yellowstone at 11,000' stopped to take some pics and Holy :censored: it didn't want to idle for very long and almost didn't start. I thought I was :censored:ed


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## blsnelling (Oct 13, 2009)

Andyshine77 said:


> It looks too hot for stump work, but at 1,100ft it will likely be just right or maybe even a little rich. I'd still look for a fully adjustable carb, that would resolve the the issue for good.



I've gone from .055 to .057-.058 since those plug readings.


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## blsnelling (Oct 13, 2009)

MR4WD said:


> Anyways, here's the thread I was thinking of, might not be as much help as I thought:
> 
> http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=102741&highlight=3120



TreeCo, do you want to cut your case to make an adjustable carb work? I want to make a couple calls today to see if the WG-8-1 has the H needle.


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## troutfisher (Oct 13, 2009)

I put a WG3 on a 3120, the problem was the pulse line. The WG6 gets pulse through a port in the intake. The WG3 uses a rubber hose, and the nipple sticks down off the bottom of the carb. The case has to be cut away to make room for the nipple and line. You also need to put a nipple into the crankcase somewhere, for the other end of the hose. I did it at the intake. The throttle link is also different, and once you change the throttle link the idle screw doesn't line up any more. I did this on a race saw, so no big deal to cut things up. I don't think I would do it to a work saw. There has to be a better option.


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## blsnelling (Oct 13, 2009)

troutfisher said:


> There has to be a better option.



That's what I'm thinking. I'm going to call Walbro and perhaps a couple suppliers today to see if I can find a WG-8-1 with a H needle.


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## blsnelling (Oct 13, 2009)

I just talked to a Walbro guy, and the WG-8-1 does *not *have a H needle. If you look at the IPL Ultra linked for us, you will see a H needle as item #40. However, beside it in the listing of parts, you will see no PN. That means that it is not applicable for this model, ie it has a fixed H jet. I have left a message with Walbro technical support asking if there is a carb with the H needle that can be used. Right now, it's not looking very positive.


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## 04ultra (Oct 13, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> I just talked to a Walbro guy, and the WG-8-1 does *not *have a H needle. If you look at the IPL Ultra linked for us, you will see a H needle as item #40. However, beside it in the listing of parts, you will see no PN. That means that it is not applicable for this model, ie it has a fixed H jet. I have left a message with Walbro technical support asking if there is a carb with the H needle that can be used. Right now, it's not looking very positive.



http://wem.walbro.com/walbro/product2.asp?Series=WG&partnum=WG-3-1

http://wem.walbro.com/walbro/product2.asp?Series=WG&partnum=WG-5-1


try these ......


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## blsnelling (Oct 13, 2009)

04ultra said:


> http://wem.walbro.com/walbro/product2.asp?Series=WG&partnum=WG-3-1
> 
> http://wem.walbro.com/walbro/product2.asp?Series=WG&partnum=WG-5-1
> 
> ...



Both of those show a PN for the H needle. I'll check them out. Thanks Ultra.


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## blsnelling (Oct 13, 2009)

Both the WG-3 and WG-5 do indeed have adjustable H needles. Walbro calls them "Power" needles. Walbros price is $140 and 2 weeks lead time. Perhaps I can find it cheaper else where.

Anyone know what the differences would be between the WG-3 and WG-5? Which would be more desireable? Perhaps the -5 is just an upgraded -3?


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## NPKenny (Oct 13, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> I'm hoping not to have to take it out of the carb again It's very small. I initially drilled it with a .0465 drill. Since then I have been using a diamond reamer to go bigger. I ream it from both sides to help take the taper into account. LINK



That certainly helps for the tooling. Thank you.


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## blsnelling (Oct 13, 2009)

troutfisher said:


> I put a WG3 on a 3120, the problem was the pulse line. The WG6 gets pulse through a port in the intake. The WG3 uses a rubber hose, and the nipple sticks down off the bottom of the carb.



I forgot the impulse thing there for a minute with the WG-3. I'll have to check out the WG-5.


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## blsnelling (Oct 13, 2009)

The WG-5 and WG-8 both show the impulse line on the pump cover. I know in the past that I have successfully opened the impulse passage to come through the intake flange on other carbs. Often the makings are already there and you just have to drill them out and block the original.


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## miller1 (Oct 13, 2009)

Very impressive, now put your glasses on.


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## troutfisher (Oct 13, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> The WG-5 and WG-8 both show the impulse line on the pump cover. I know in the past that I have successfully opened the impulse passage to come through the intake flange on other carbs. Often the makings are already there and you just have to drill them out and block the original.



just use the cover off the old carb, it doesn't have a port.


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## blsnelling (Oct 13, 2009)

troutfisher said:


> just use the cover off the old carb, it doesn't have a port.



Exactly. Provided the carb body has the provisions to drill the impulse passage. All it takes is drilling at two angles. One into the flange of the carb, and the other to intersect with it from under the side of the carb. I wouldn't know until I had the carb in hand it I could do it.


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## blsnelling (Oct 13, 2009)

miller1 said:


> Very impressive, now put your glasses on.



Yes sir!


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## blsnelling (Oct 13, 2009)

04ultra said:


> http://www.chainsaws-etc.com/walbro_whg_carburetors.htm
> 
> might want to call and ask them......



They have the WG-3 for $99. I'll check out their return policy.

Edit: The do accept returns with a RMA and 15% restocking fee. I'll let TreeCo make the decision here.


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## Tzed250 (Oct 13, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> That is entirely why I hate rev limited coils. I loose a huge tuning aid when I can't run a saw at WOT. RPMs in the wood is what makes a saw fast. As far as cutting performance, the rev limited coil only matters if it limits below what the saw turns in the wood. The 3120 is a prime example of that. I believe the current 3120 coil limits to something like 9,500, and this 3120 I have here is turning 11,200 in the wood.








Tzed250 said:


> 11,200...holy smokes!
> 
> What is the mean piston speed at that RPM?
> 
> ...





blsnelling said:


> I suppose that's what happens when the original porter raised the exhaust and transfers so much. If I dog it in, it drops into the 10s. The saw runs and feels great. I'd hate to mess with it.





Tzed250 said:


> What happens if the pin bosses or skirt fail because they aren't designed to take those loads??
> 
> Remember, a work saw...
> 
> ...





blsnelling said:


> Understood. I had had a compromised P&C to start with. I'm pleased to see it running like it is. If I were starting with a new P&C, I would not have raised the exhaust at all. And I wouldn't have raised the transfers near as much as they have been. For that matter, I wouldn't have lowered the intake near as much either. Can you say "Butcher"





blsnelling said:


> Would you guys mind deleting your 3120 posts in this thread and copying them over into the 3120 Gone Wild thread. I think it's good conversation and would like it to be in the other thread for reference. Thanks. Keep the input coming.




As you requested Brad...


Did a little math for you...

At 11,200 RPM the 3120 is making the same mean piston speed as a 346 at 14,500 RPM, and the 346 won't be *in the wood* at that figure.

I hope you see what I'm getting at. There is no way that piston will survive long under those kinds of loads. As well, TreeCo said the saw would be used for stumping. That high exhaust port will not be ideal for conditions like that.

I would explore cutting the base to get the exhaust duration back to a reasonable number and to kill some of those revs. If that is not possible then a new top end may be needed. Not your fault, killed on a workbench other than yours.

That is what I would do if it were my saw.




.


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## matt9923 (Oct 13, 2009)

The dam tree hungers are killing us with non adjustable carbs.... can they just keep eating grass and driving their priuses...


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## blsnelling (Oct 13, 2009)

Tzed250 said:


> As you requested Brad...



Thanks Tzed.


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## epicklein22 (Oct 13, 2009)

You sure that is an Oak? Sure looks like a sugar maple to me....looks like a true beast you have there, but please quit free-revving the piss out of it. That's just not right.


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## blsnelling (Oct 13, 2009)

epicklein22 said:


> You sure that is an Oak? Sure looks like a sugar maple to me....looks like a true beast you have there, but please quit free-revving the piss out of it. That's just not right.



I'm pretty sure I remember Oak leaves on it in the Spring after it was dropped. But no, I'm not positive. I've got to check the tune somehow. I won't tune off of plug color alone, and I can't tune it in the cut without and adjustable carb.


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## epicklein22 (Oct 13, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> I'm pretty sure I remember Oak leaves on it in the Spring after it was dropped. But no, I'm not positive. I've got to check the tune somehow. I won't tune off of plug color alone, and I can't tune it in the cut without and adjustable carb.



That's fine, just a pet peeve of mine seeing a saw free revving. Why don't you like plug color? Too much of a technicality? Plug color or timed cuts are about the only way to tune a saw that is rev-limited (I know this saw is not RL). 

Otherwise, that saw is just mean. I hope you get it running rich because that thing is turning serious RPM in the cut. Gotta be a lot of heat like Tzed said.


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## Tzed250 (Oct 13, 2009)

epicklein22 said:


> That's fine, just a pet peeve of mine seeing a saw free revving. Why don't you like plug color? Too much of a technicality? Plug color or timed cuts are about the only way to tune a saw that is rev-limited (I know this saw is not RL).
> 
> Otherwise, that saw is just mean. I hope you get it running rich because that thing is turning serious RPM in the cut. Gotta be a lot of *heat* like Tzed said.




I wouldn't worry about the heat as much as I would worry about finding the intake side skirt in the bottom end.


.


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## blsnelling (Oct 13, 2009)

If this saw had an adjustable H needle, I'd tune it in the cut with a quick rev to double check. I don't have that luxury. IMHO, plug color is way too subjective. It can be affect by fuel type, etc. If I were going by plug color alone, I would not have gone up in jet size after the last run. We're now going to order a WG-3 carb and see if it can be modified for a bolt on replacement, with no mods to the case.


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## epicklein22 (Oct 13, 2009)

Tzed250 said:


> I wouldn't worry about the heat as much as I would worry about finding the intake side skirt in the bottom end.
> 
> 
> .



Ya, but heat is the big killer IMO. That piston will expand and turning that many Rpm's isn't good. I just think it would seize before something letting loose.


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## blsnelling (Oct 13, 2009)

My 084 turns close to the same RPMs and has had no trouble. Matter of fact it has 170-175 PSI compression with a popup piston. I've had it pulling a 9-pin 3/8 rim on a 50" bar buried in solid Oak. I don't thing you're going to generate much more heat than that.

BTW, I'm pretty sure 'Slingrs 880 is turning close to this many RPMs as well.


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## B_Turner (Oct 13, 2009)

I may have missed some posts, but from what I"ve read you've drilled the main jet out huge and you are still turning 14k.

Something's up. Shouldn't be revving so high with the jet so large.

For a comparison, a stock husky NON epa turns a touch over 12k with a 1.16mm jet. You are dumping way more fuel in then that.

But I may be missing something here.


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## 04ultra (Oct 13, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> My 084 turns close to the same RPMs and has had no trouble. Matter of fact it has 170-175 PSI compression with a popup piston. I've had it pulling a 9-pin 3/8 rim on a 50" bar buried in solid Oak. I don't thing you're going to generate much more heat than that.
> 
> BTW, I'm pretty sure 'Slingrs 880 is turning close to this many RPMs as well.



Seems to me the guys racing 3120's like the 084 rods in them........






.


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## Tzed250 (Oct 13, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> My 084 turns close to the same RPMs and has had no trouble. Matter of fact it has 170-175 PSI compression with a popup piston. I've had it pulling a 9-pin 3/8 rim on a 50" bar buried in solid Oak. I don't thing you're going to generate much more heat than that.
> 
> BTW, I'm pretty sure 'Slingrs 880 is turning close to this many RPMs as well.



Curious then, why do you think Husqvarna keeps dropping the rev limit on the 3120?


.


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## B_Turner (Oct 13, 2009)

Tzed250 said:


> Curious then, why do you think Husqvarna keeps dropping the rev limit on the 3120?
> 
> 
> .



I've been told the green coil setup was an EPA thing. Canada and US only. 

ROW mostly gets the black coil and flywheel still.


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## blsnelling (Oct 13, 2009)

B_Turner said:


> I may have missed some posts, but from what I"ve read you've drilled the main jet out huge and you are still turning 14k.
> 
> Something's up. Shouldn't be revving so high with the jet so large.
> 
> ...



It's a whole new ballgame with a ported saw. .055 on the main jet is not out of line for a ported 3120. We don't port saws for them to turn factory RPMs, lol


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## Tree Sling'r (Oct 13, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> It's a whole new ballgame with a ported saw. .055 on the main jet is not out of line for a ported 3120. We don't port saws for them to turn factory RPMs, lol



I agree, porting does amazing things. Exactly why I will go to my grave argueing the non rev coil vs the limited, same with a carb.

Saw looks good Brad.


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## blsnelling (Oct 13, 2009)

Tree Sling'r said:


> I agree, porting does amazing things. Exactly why I will go to my grave argueing the non rev coil vs the limited, same with a carb.
> 
> Saw looks good Brad.



Thanks Jasha.


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## parrisw (Oct 13, 2009)

I think it looks good brad, that is quite a bit bigger on the jet, but I've never ported a 3120, so I cant comment on that. Keep up the good work.


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## blsnelling (Oct 14, 2009)

parrisw said:


> ...that is quite a bit bigger on the jet...



I started with a 1.12 mm jet, which equals .044". I'm now at .058". That's a *73% increase in area*! Any saw that can drink that much fuel has got to be making some serious power! It's cool to know that Troutfisher has gone close to that with 3120s he's done. So that confirms I'm not out of the ballpark. Otherwise I might be scratching my head too.


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## Hddnis (Oct 14, 2009)

You brought a dead saw back to life. Owner will get many years out of it by my guess and really enjoy using it. I don't have a lot of time tinkering with the guts of the 3120, but I don't think they'll have any trouble with those RPM's.

As to why they keep putting limited coils on them, I think it is either EPA or idiot proofing. WOT on a saw for tuning is a needed thing and helps you set it up right. Trouble is there are plenty of "pros" that will overspeed anything with a motor. I remember when a rookie discovered that turning the H screw would make the trimmer go faster. I stopped him before he blew it up, he thought that the faster it ran the better.



Mr. HE


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## parrisw (Oct 14, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> I started with a 1.12 mm jet, which equals .044". I'm now at .058". That's a *73% increase in area*! Any saw that can drink that much fuel has got to be making some serious power! It's cool to know that Troutfisher has gone close to that with 3120s he's done. So that confirms I'm not out of the ballpark. Otherwise I might be scratching my head too.



Ya, I agree, obviously it's liking the fuel!! that's for sure. But like I said, I've never ported a 3120, so I can't really comment on what it needs!! I wouldn't worry about the naysayers, they've probably never worked over a 3120 either.


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## B_Turner (Oct 14, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> I started with a 1.12 mm jet, which equals .044". I'm now at .058". That's a *73% increase in area*! Any saw that can drink that much fuel has got to be making some serious power! It's cool to know that Troutfisher has gone close to that with 3120s he's done. So that confirms I'm not out of the ballpark. Otherwise I might be scratching my head too.



I thought I had read an earlier post of years where you said you had increased the area by more than 73 percent. I must have misread.

I agree that limited coil make getting the mixture ballpark harder. Esp the 9.6k limit, it's crazy. And my stock 3120s are happiest with a long bar buried between 9.5k and 10.3k, which is faster than the original setups allowed.


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## blsnelling (Oct 14, 2009)

B_Turner said:


> And my stock 3120s are happiest with a long bar buried between 9.5k and 10.3k, which is faster than the original setups allowed.



11,200 isn't way out of line with that. I say run this puppy and let it eat wood! A saw owner doesn't have a saw ported and not expect the RPMs to increase. Otherwise, what would be the point in doing. That is the *whole *point. More RPMs in the wood to cut wood faster.


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## Andyshine77 (Oct 14, 2009)

I see nothing wrong with 11,200 rpm. If you don't want the extra rpm's don't run a ported saw, yup it's that easy.


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## Tzed250 (Oct 14, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> 11,200 isn't way out of line with that. I say run this puppy and let it eat wood! A saw owner doesn't have a saw ported and not expect the RPMs to increase. Otherwise, what would be the point in doing. That is the *whole *point. More RPMs in the wood to cut wood faster.



Well, it's hard to argue with a confident man. It seems odd though that in many of your former posts you say don't raise the exhaust port. 

Is it ok to raise the exhaust port now?


.


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## blsnelling (Oct 14, 2009)

Tzed250 said:


> Well, it's hard to argue with a confident man. It seems odd though that in many of your former posts you say don't raise the exhaust port.
> 
> Is it ok to raise the exhaust port now?



I haven't said anything to the contrary. I never once said raising the exhaust on this saw was ideal. But I do think it will be fine. I'm sure not going to toss it for a new one at this point. Also, just lowering the jug isn't going to help in and of itself. The squish is already where I want it. You'd have to bore out the squish band in the head as well. I'm not a machinist and don't really want to go there. Also, I don't want the intake any lower than it already is. I honestly think it'll be fine the way it is. The RPMs are on par with my 084 and 'Slingrs 880. That doesn't mean I don't value your input though. I appreciate all feedback I've been given.

Back to the comparison of the 346. My 346 turns 16,400. My 260 turns 17,400. Both properly tuned.


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## belgian (Oct 14, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> 11,200 isn't way out of line with that. I say run this puppy and let it eat wood! A saw owner doesn't have a saw ported and not expect the RPMs to increase. Otherwise, what would be the point in doing. That is the *whole *point. More RPMs in the wood to cut wood faster.



I would agree for a racing saw but not for a production saw. Just bearing in mind the cost of a high $ pro saw, the mod job $, a new adjustable carb $ and the risk of burning it up soon.

that's a high $ risk to gain a few seconds in the wood if you ask me.

Saw manufacterers do have a reason to keep those rpm's at a decent level, just my 02 cts.

and fixed H jets on carbs were already used in the '70's, so EPA has nothing to do with it. It was a security measure for protecting loggers that were trying to gain a few rpm's in the wood by setting it too lean.


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## blsnelling (Oct 14, 2009)

I would suggest that the owner already made that decision when he had the saw ported when new. More RPMs is just part of a port job, and the reason for the port job. There are lots of ported saws out in production work. Nothing new there.


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## Jacob J. (Oct 14, 2009)

belgian said:


> I would agree for a racing saw but not for a production saw. Just bearing in mind the cost of a high $ pro saw, the mod job $, a new adjustable carb $ and the risk of burning it up soon.
> 
> that's a high $ risk to gain a few seconds in the wood if you ask me.
> 
> ...



Roland-

I have to disagree from the standpoint of having made my living behind a saw for many years. I've said in the past that a modded saw will get me 40 more trees on the ground in a day on a straight falling job. I was averaging $90-$100 per load at the time and it takes 80 trees to make a load. So naturally it doesn't take long for those 40 extra trees everyday to pay for the time spent on mods and extra 'go-fast' parts. As far as longevity is concerned, I was getting as long of life out of a modded saw than cutters next to me with stock saws. It had a lot to do with the fact that my chain was always razor sharp, I ran the best oil and gas available, and I was meticulous about maintenance. 

Dan (Treeco) is in a professional setting all the time and will reap the benefits of a modded saw.


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## belgian (Oct 14, 2009)

Jacob J. said:


> Roland-
> 
> I have to disagree from the standpoint of having made my living behind a saw for many years. I've said in the past that a modded saw will get me 40 more trees on the ground in a day on a straight falling job. I was averaging $90-$100 per load at the time and it takes 80 trees to make a load. So naturally it doesn't take long for those 40 extra trees everyday to pay for the time spent on mods and extra 'go-fast' parts. As far as longevity is concerned, I was getting as long of life out of a modded saw than cutters next to me with stock saws. It had a lot to do with the fact that my chain was always razor sharp, I ran the best oil and gas available, and I was meticulous about maintenance.
> 
> Dan (Treeco) is in a professional setting all the time and will reap the benefits of a modded saw.



Jacob, 

I am no professional logger so I won't argue with you, but I doubt many people posting on this forum do take 80 trees down a day. I am a firm believer in a well maintained and tuned chainsaw to get a wood job done, and like you already indicated, you won't get anywhere without a sharp chain.

I'd rather invest my $ in a few new chain loops and learn to sharpen a chain decently, rather than spending much $ into hot rodding a saw for production, but that's only my opinion. I see many posters getting high about running modified saws, but the marketing hype that goes along with it does leave a strange taste. Our bestest friend Lakeside once said that the best mod to a saw is having a sharp chain, and I absolutely agree with that. I maybe old school, but having a loud, heavy fuel burner in my hands as a tool is not my idea of a modern working outfit. 

Maybe I am just jealous I don't have a ported saw ... but then again, it would just be for fun or a race


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## joatmon (Oct 14, 2009)

belgian said:


> Jacob,
> 
> I am no professional logger so I won't argue with you, but I doubt many people posting on this forum do take 80 trees down a day. I am a firm believer in a well maintained and tuned chainsaw to get a wood job done, and like you already indicated, you won't get anywhere without a sharp chain.
> 
> ...



Roland,

Perhaps the best mod is a sharp chain. Then, I guess porting would be the next best mod. I think most here know the value of a sharp chain.

Ported saws ..........  ..... come on in ....... the water's warm and there's room for you.

ole joat


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## belgian (Oct 14, 2009)

joatmon said:


> Ported saws ..........  ..... come on in ....... the water's warm and there's room for you.
> 
> ole joat



If there's beer then I might really be tempted....


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## belgian (Oct 14, 2009)

my point is : does everyone need a bike like this...:hmm3grin2orange:

<embed width="600" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullscreen="true" allowNetworking="all" wmode="transparent" src="http://static.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid213.photobucket.com/albums/cc86/belgian_pics/other/Mijnen_nieuwen_fiets.flv">


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## epicklein22 (Oct 14, 2009)

belgian said:


> Jacob,
> 
> I am no professional logger so I won't argue with you, but I doubt many people posting on this forum do take 80 trees down a day. I am a firm believer in a well maintained and tuned chainsaw to get a wood job done, and like you already indicated, you won't get anywhere without a sharp chain.
> 
> ...



I agree with ya Roland on the sharp chain being the best mod. I still have yet to master the filing of a razor sharp chain. Mine cut good, but I have used filed chains done by other people and they are a lot better. Porting is a powerful tool, such as JJ case, but most just have it done for fun and bragging rights. We all want that saw that just puts others to shame and a big smile on our face. How many videos have you seen on here and other places of ported saws where the chain just sucks? Almost every week it seems. So you may be old school Roland, but your argument still has weight and is warranted.


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## Hddnis (Oct 14, 2009)

belgian said:


> If there's beer then I might really be tempted....




You get a ported saw and come by for a visit and your choice of local micro-brews is on me.

We'll find a place with a big fireplace and kick back after a day of running ported saws in the wind and the rain.



Mr. HE


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## blsnelling (Oct 14, 2009)

belgian said:


> my point is : does everyone need a bike like this...:hmm3grin2orange:



To answer your question in one word...YES!!


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## matt9923 (Oct 14, 2009)

epicklein22 said:


> I agree with ya Roland on the sharp chain being the best mod. I still have yet to master the filing of a razor sharp chain. Mine cut good, but I have used filed chains done by other people and they are a lot better. Porting is a powerful tool, such as JJ case, but most just have it done for fun and bragging rights. We all want that saw that just puts others to shame and a big smile on our face. How many videos have you seen on here and other places of ported saws where the chain just sucks? Almost every week it seems. So you may be old school Roland, but your argument still has weight and is warranted.



I use a grinder on most of my chains, mostly because it so quick. When i do take the time to sharpen by hand i can tell. I cut in a lot of dirty conditions so the grinder saves a lot of time, If i cut clean softwood all day i could see filing by hand and getting it perfect.

I have a grinder but still know how to file a chain... a lot of people don't.


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## belgian (Oct 14, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> To answer your question in one word...YES!!



Brad, I really admire your enthusiasm about your work and the eye for detail.

It is obvious you like what you are doing with these saws, so the heck with belgian ... you get errrrrrr done


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## blsnelling (Oct 14, 2009)

belgian said:


> so the heck with belgian ... you get errrrrrr done



Hey, I love the interaction. Keep it coming


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## 7oaks (Oct 14, 2009)

I'm really enjoying the interaction as well. I respect all the opinions stated so far and understand the different points of view. This is an example of a thread that has gone off in a slightly different direction but a good one.


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## blsnelling (Oct 14, 2009)

Do we have any sponsors here that could order me a Walbro WG-3-1 carb?


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## matt9923 (Oct 14, 2009)

7oaks said:


> I'm really enjoying the interaction as well. I respect all the opinions stated so far and understand the different points of view. This is an example of a thread that has gone off in a slightly different direction but a good one.



most threads go off in a silly direction, except the ones that starts off in such a silly direction they cant get silly-er...


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## MR4WD (Oct 23, 2009)

Any updates?


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## blsnelling (Oct 23, 2009)

MR4WD said:


> Any updates?



The carb's been sent off to be modded with a H needle.


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## MR4WD (Oct 23, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> The carb's been sent off to be modded with a H needle.



Wow. that was the best alternative to a new carb?

Whatever stihl did on the 880 wouldn't work on the big husky?


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## blsnelling (Oct 23, 2009)

MR4WD said:


> Wow. that was the best alternative to a new carb?
> 
> Whatever stihl did on the 880 wouldn't work on the big husky?



Couldn't find a new carb that would bolt on without mods that had a H needle. This route was less expensive anyway.


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## Wildman1024 (Oct 23, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> Couldn't find a new carb that would bolt on without mods that had a H needle. This route was less expensive anyway.



I didn't know you could have a card modded like that. Where do you have to take them to have that done? Can any old fixed H carb have that done to it?


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## ciscoguy01 (Oct 23, 2009)

*wow*

:blush:Thats a hell of a saw dude... I'd like to have some "alone-time" with that baby, lmao...


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## JT78 (Oct 23, 2009)

Most of the time I cut green wood and with green wood I dont have much problem keeping a sharp chain and the extra rpms are nice. When I am stump cutting or cutting some old dry hardwood with lots of dirt I run the saw rich at a lower rpm cause I know my chain isnt going to be up to par. If I was cutting for a living there is no doubt in my mind I would be running a ported saw but you should know how to tune the carb if youre going to run a ported saw. 

Hey Brad I didnt know you could have a fixed jet modified with an H jet and screw. Thats pretty cool and you have done an awesome job on that 3120 I think a few people have forgotten it was a clean up from a port job gone bad.


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## blsnelling (Oct 23, 2009)

Wildman1024 said:


> I didn't know you could have a card modded like that. Where do you have to take them to have that done? Can any old fixed H carb have that done to it?



I'm not sure if I'm allowed to mention them or not. However, this is a great resource for guys looking for an adjustable carb that's otherwise not available. I sent it to Bertrand Hotsaws in CA. I think they do work for the Stihl Timbersport guys. From what I've been told, they're top notch. I'm not on the racing scene, so I'm only going by reference. They only charged $25 + return shipping.


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## mtngun (Oct 23, 2009)

Good info, Brad. I'd rep you if I could.

I've shied away from the big Huskies due to the fixed jet issue, but now that there is an affordable fix, I'll be more open to getting one.


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## striperswaper (Oct 23, 2009)

so the high speed passages are already cast and all they are going to do is drill and tap for the H needle?
do you think you will to get a smaller main jet?


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## blsnelling (Oct 23, 2009)

striperswaper said:


> so the high speed passages are already cast and all they are going to do is drill and tap for the H needle?
> do you think you will to get a smaller main jet?



I really know nothing about it. I was told they could do it. So I called them an they said sure. The price was right, so off it went.


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## Moss Man (Oct 23, 2009)

Do me a personal favor Brad? Wear some eye protection please.......you only have two and they do not grow back.

By the way, nice saw!


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## Nitroman (Oct 25, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> I really know nothing about it. I was told they could do it. So I called them an they said sure. The price was right, so off it went.



This was the stock carb on the saw? Not the WG-3 being modded?


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## blsnelling (Oct 25, 2009)

Nitroman said:


> This was the stock carb on the saw? Not the WG-3 being modded?



That is correct.


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## BloodOnTheIce (Oct 25, 2009)

I've got a WG-3 that I've been meaning to put on my 3120XP, sometime this coming week I'll have time to sit down and put on the saw. I'll be sure to take pictures and let everyone know how it goes. I'm going be running it on a pipe so having the adjustable H needle makes me feel a lot safer.


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## MR4WD (Oct 25, 2009)

BloodOnTheIce said:


> I've got a WG-3 that I've been meaning to put on my 3120XP, sometime this coming week I'll have time to sit down and put on the saw. I'll be sure to take pictures and let everyone know how it goes. I'm going be running it on a pipe so having the adjustable H needle makes me feel a lot safer.



I'm fairly interested in this. Keep us posted (in a new thread)


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## blsnelling (Oct 25, 2009)

MR4WD said:


> I'm fairly interested in this. Keep us posted (in a new thread)



Yes, please do. Where'd you get the WG-3? Are they still available new?


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## Nitroman (Oct 26, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> Yes, please do. Where'd you get the WG-3? Are they still available new?



Call these folks:
http://www.vepetersen.com/Default.aspx


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## Wildman1024 (Nov 23, 2009)

Hey Brad...Did you ever get your modded carb back for this saw and get it up and tuned?


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## blsnelling (Nov 23, 2009)

I talked to Betrand last week and the carb is on its way back from Canada.


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## Wildman1024 (Nov 23, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> I talked to Betrand last week and the carb is on its way back from Canada.




Good deal! Keep us updated (I'm sure you will) when it gets back in.


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## bertrand (Nov 30, 2009)

so have you received the carb??

simon


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## blsnelling (Nov 30, 2009)

bertrand said:


> so have you received the carb??
> 
> simon



I have not. Thanks for checking in. It's nice to see you posting here. I think quite a few people are anxious to see how this turns out.


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## MR4WD (Nov 30, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> I have not. Thanks for checking in. It's nice to see you posting here. I think quite a few people are anxious to see how this turns out.



Add me to that list!


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## capeferrelo (Nov 30, 2009)

So am I. I am going on Thursday to pick up a 272xp, 394xp and 3120xp that I bought from a retiring logger, and I would love to hear about the carb mod and how it works out- I'd love to talk to Bertrand about doing the same modification.

It's been a great fall so far...272xp, 394xp, 3120xp and 281xp all for a touch over a grand. When it rains...


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## Andyshine77 (Dec 1, 2009)

capeferrelo said:


> So am I. I am going on Thursday to pick up a 272xp, 394xp and 3120xp that I bought from a retiring logger, and I would love to hear about the carb mod and how it works out- I'd love to talk to Bertrand about doing the same modification.
> 
> It's been a great fall so far...272xp, 394xp, 3120xp and 281xp all for a touch over a grand. When it rains...



Yup that sounds like a good fall to me.


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## blsnelling (Dec 1, 2009)

The 3102 carb finally arrived back today I haven't installed it yet, but here are a few pics of the mods.

I had to remove the idle screw to get the H screw out.


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## striperswaper (Dec 1, 2009)

it will be interesting to how touchy the tuning is with a taper like that


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## Andyshine77 (Dec 1, 2009)

Wow the H screw is huge.:jawdrop: looks like they do good work.


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## stinkbait (Dec 1, 2009)

Have you put it on yet?


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## blsnelling (Dec 1, 2009)

Andyshine77 said:


> Wow the H screw is huge.:jawdrop: looks like they do good work.



It's just a M5 x .8 bolt

Things didn't start out so well. I bolted it on and couldn't turn the H needle. Turns out that the filter base was jammed up against it and bent the H needle badly. It pushed into the L and bent it slightly. The L was fine, but the H had to be replaced.

But first, why was the filter base hitting it? I'm guessing that Bertrand typically does these for race saws that never see a stock filter setup. But I had to make it work. *The hole coule not have been put anywhere else for the new H needle.* I ended up grinding a recess into the bottom of the filter base, and reducing the diameter of the new H needle I made. I'll have to do something about the hole in the filter base now, but that's no biggie. The new H needle I made with a greater taper. I also finish ground it on my diamond knife sharpening wheel and then polished it on the paper wheel.

Bottom line, it works great and runs like a dream. I couldn't be happier. The L needle is at 1 1 /8 turns and the H at 7/8 turns. It's not difficult to adjust at all. The only catch to tuning the H, is that you really need a 5mm ball driver to get up under the filter base and into the socket head.

The saw sounds good and plenty rich at 13,800, but I turned it on down to 13,500. That's what you hear me set it to in the video.

Treeco, you've got one mean fully adjustable, unlimited 3120 coming your way shortly! Enjoy!



The top hole is for the H needle. You can see how it's about half covered up.







Here you can see the H needle through the hole I ground in the filter base. I've yet to do anything with that. Let me know if you've got any clever ideas. I plan on simply casting around it with JBWeld and grinding it back to shape.












I've got a video to edit yet, where you'll hear me tune both the L and H needles.


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## Chopwood (Dec 1, 2009)

If I am out of line here, let me know. But broacasting pictures of another man's work isn't cool. Don't know if there was any sort of agreement on this stuff. I know Simon personally, if I were in his position- I wouldn't want anything shown. Like I said, if I am out of line, I'm sorry.


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## 056 kid (Dec 1, 2009)

Chopwood said:


> If I am out of line here, let me know. But broacasting pictures of another man's work isn't cool. Don't know if there was any sort of agreement on this stuff. I know Simon personally, if I were in his position- I wouldn't want anything shown. Like I said, if I am out of line, I'm sorry.



get bigger things to worry about...


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## blsnelling (Dec 1, 2009)

Chopwood said:


> If I am out of line here, let me know. But broacasting pictures of another man's work isn't cool. Don't know if there was any sort of agreement on this stuff. I know Simon personally, if I were in his position- I wouldn't want anything shown. Like I said, if I am out of line, I'm sorry.



Simon, if you want, PM me and I'll take them down. Never crossed my mind.


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## Outlaw5.0 (Dec 1, 2009)

I think this is why the photos maybe should be taken down. It could turn into whos work is better.


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## blsnelling (Dec 1, 2009)

Outlaw5.0 said:


> I think this is why the photos maybe should be taken down. It could turn into whos work is better.



I agree entirely. The last thing I want to do is start another big fight. The detailed pics are pulled.

Here's the vid. TreeCo, you and I will both be much more confortable knowing you can keep this baby tuned right.


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## troutfisher (Dec 1, 2009)

I think 13.5K is pushing your luck with a 3120 and a stock rod. I also think you might rethink posting pics of other's work. It does sound good!


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## troutfisher (Dec 1, 2009)

We were posting at the same time, good call.


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## blsnelling (Dec 1, 2009)

troutfisher said:


> I think 13.5K is pushing your luck with a 3120 and a stock rod. I also think you might rethink posting pics of other's work. It does sound good!



It turns what it turns. Not much I can do about that. The detailed pics have been removed.


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## blsnelling (Dec 1, 2009)

troutfisher said:


> We were posting at the same time, good call.



And we just did it again


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## Jacob J. (Dec 1, 2009)

Outlaw5.0 said:


> I think this is why the photos maybe should be taken down. It could turn into whos work is better.





troutfisher said:


> I also think you might rethink posting pics of other's work.



So if I purchase something, I'm not allowed to post pictures of it?


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## blsnelling (Dec 1, 2009)

Jacob J. said:


> So if I purchase something, I'm not allowed to post pictures of it?



I understand in this case. This was a mod that no one else that I'm aware of makes. I wouldn't want to take business away from Simon. Although, even with detailed pics, you still wouln't know how deep, and what size holes to drill, and what ever else is involved.


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## troutfisher (Dec 1, 2009)

Jacob J. said:


> So if I purchase something, I'm not allowed to post pictures of it?



I guess there's no law, but I wouldn't want to pizz off someone that I might be asking for help in the future. It's pretty easy for a builder to say "sorry, I'm busy."


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## Jacob J. (Dec 1, 2009)

I understand in this case Brad. The issue has been raised in the past about certain builders not wanting their work shown for fear of copycatting, proprietary secrets lost, unjust criticism...

Good work on the 3120.


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## blsnelling (Dec 1, 2009)

troutfisher said:


> I guess there's no law, but I wouldn't want to pizz off someone that I might be asking for help in the future.



That's the way I'm looking at it. This was an inexpensive, yet valuable find. I'm sure more guys will be looking into making their 3120s fully adjustable, yet maintain all stock functionality.


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## BloodOnTheIce (Dec 1, 2009)

Looks like more practical solution, than putting on a WG-3 carb. I got the WG-3 to run and run well, but I'm making it a racer, and it's not exactly a good solution for someone looking to make a work saw.


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## troutfisher (Dec 1, 2009)

BloodOnTheIce said:


> Looks like more practical solution, than putting on a WG-3 carb. I got the WG-3 to run and run well, but I'm making it a racer, and it's not exactly a good solution for someone looking to make a work saw.



I agree, modding the stock carb looks like the better option for a work saw.


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## parrisw (Dec 1, 2009)

Nice work Brad!! If ya don't mind me asking how much did he charge to mod that carb?


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## blsnelling (Dec 1, 2009)

parrisw said:


> Nice work Brad!! If ya don't mind me asking how much did he charge to mod that carb?



Simon, aka Bertrand, posted last night. I'll let him fill in the details.


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## BloodOnTheIce (Dec 1, 2009)

troutfisher said:


> I agree, modding the stock carb looks like the better option for a work saw.



I did manage to use the stock intake manifold, impulse setup, and no crankcase grinding needed.


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## ropensaddle (Dec 1, 2009)

Wow very nice Brad now a vid in the cut after tuning would be nice lol. Hey tree co its Christmas ya know lol you will love that saw bro


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## PLAYINWOOD (Dec 1, 2009)

Brad every race saw man going is doing that to carbs so they'll swallow a half a tank of nitro/alky in 5 seconds.

Some guys just do it different.

Simon is of the upper echelon of saw building, better ally then not JMHO

Ask before posting...please


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## Jacob J. (Dec 1, 2009)

Simon is beyond the upper echelon. He's one of the truly elite.


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## PLAYINWOOD (Dec 1, 2009)

I agree Jacob..I'm not raggin... but etiquette boys

Marcel Vincent's little boy...lol the french connection
I'm no professional, but Simon has one of thee most technically superior cold start techniques I've ever seen.
Helsel boys and Herb Gingras are supposed to be as good but I've never seen them. Smooth...



His brother Sabastian is also involved.


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## Chopwood (Dec 1, 2009)

056 kid said:


> get bigger things to worry about...



When proprietary infomation is involved, it isn't cool. Simon has put a lot of time into what he does. Can you figure out how to do it kid?


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## Bowtie (Dec 1, 2009)

Chopwood said:


> When proprietary infomation is involved, it isn't cool. Simon has put a lot of time into what he does. Can you figure out how to do it kid?



All 056 kid can do is run his keyboard, never useful info or likewise. He's a good candidate for the ignore function.


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## blsnelling (Dec 1, 2009)

Come on guys. Let's try to keep this thread clean. I think we understand what's involved here. That's why I removed the pictures. I don't know Simon, but I respect what he does.


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## Andyshine77 (Dec 1, 2009)

Sounds like she's running good Brad. 

I totally understand about not posting pics of peoples work, good call removing the pics.


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## parrisw (Dec 1, 2009)

This was resolved a few hours ago guys. Let it go. Why the need to keep harping on it. Do you every have someone tell you something 5,6 or 7 times? Makes you want to slap them around a bit. Move on.


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## woodgrenade (Dec 1, 2009)

parrisw said:


> This was resolved a few hours ago guys. Let it go. Why the need to keep harping on it. Do you every have someone tell you something 5,6 or 7 times? Makes you want to slap them around a bit. Move on.



Ahh but it is just the magic of posting on a forum. You read it then you feel the need to say something, although it has all been said before. Kind of like replying to someones 3 year old post in hopes of getting a response.


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## parrisw (Dec 2, 2009)

woodgrenade said:


> Ahh but it is just the magic of posting on a forum. You read it then you feel the need to say something, although it has all been said before. Kind of like replying to someones 3 year old post in hopes of getting a response.



ha ha ha. ya, I see it all the time. It's really kinda silly. There is a guy at my work like that. I'll say something, he'll be standing there and not part of the conversation, they he'll say exactly what I just said and act like he came up with it.


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## wigglesworth (Dec 2, 2009)

parrisw said:


> ha ha ha. ya, I see it all the time. It's really kinda silly. There is a guy at my work like that. I'll say something, he'll be standing there and not part of the conversation, they he'll say exactly what I just said and act like he came up with it.



Thats hilarious, i know exactly what you mean. I have this guy at my work like that. I'll say something, he'll be standing there and not part of the conversation, they he'll say exactly what I just said and act like he came up with it. Small world......


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## parrisw (Dec 2, 2009)

wigglesworth said:


> Thats hilarious, i know exactly what you mean. I have this guy at my work like that. I'll say something, he'll be standing there and not part of the conversation, they he'll say exactly what I just said and act like he came up with it. Small world......



ha ha, ya there is always one in every bunch.


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## Andyshine77 (Dec 2, 2009)

Are you guys referring to me??


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## wigglesworth (Dec 2, 2009)

Andyshine77 said:


> Are you guys referring to me??



No.


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## Andyshine77 (Dec 2, 2009)

OK cool.


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## blsnelling (Dec 2, 2009)

Yes


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## parrisw (Dec 2, 2009)

Andyshine77 said:


> Are you guys referring to me??



No one in particular.


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## Andyshine77 (Dec 2, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> Yes



Hahaha I knew it.


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## blsnelling (Dec 2, 2009)

You are definately the one in the bunch!:hmm3grin2orange:


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## parrisw (Dec 2, 2009)

Andyshine77 said:


> OK cool.



I just saw the dog pile happening and said something about it.


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## Andyshine77 (Dec 2, 2009)

Don't know why but I've been a bit paranoid lately.lol:Eye:


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## blsnelling (Dec 2, 2009)

parrisw said:


> I just saw the dog pile happening and said something about it.



It's all Andy's fault! Pile on guys!


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## Andyshine77 (Dec 2, 2009)

I'm a beast, I can take it.:help:


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## blsnelling (Dec 2, 2009)

I think I earned my beast patch too didn't I?


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## Andyshine77 (Dec 2, 2009)

Big time!!:yourock::yourock: Hahaha


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## scotvl (Dec 2, 2009)

Nice ####ing saw Treeco Im jeleous, Great work Brad and Simon.:yourock:


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## youngs24 (Dec 2, 2009)

PLAYINWOOD said:


> I agree Jacob..I'm not raggin... but etiquette boys
> 
> Marcel Vincent's little boy...lol the french connection
> I'm no professional, but Simon has one of thee most technically superior cold start techniques I've ever seen.
> ...



well i think yall might want to go look at the webster results over the years every time the hesel boys showed up to race one of them, has won it and as far as gingras hes won it a couple times to that is one show that is hard to win ask simon he won last year he can tell you how hard it is to win as far as who has the best saws well i believe that would be a toss up i really believe its got to do with the start and be very smooth a lot of cold start races are won and lost on the start later TROY


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## capeferrelo (Dec 2, 2009)

Just thinking out loud here, but after re-reading the posts about the work on the carb, I wonder, if after bending the fabricated H screw, it could have been replaced with the H screw from a WG3. The look to be about 3 bucks on several sites, and I would imagine that, if the WG8 came with one, they'd use the same part. Anyone know about this?


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## blsnelling (Dec 2, 2009)

That wouldn't work. The carb was drilled for a M5 x .8 bolt. And it still wouldn't solve the clearance issue. The early 3120 that had a fully adjustable carb must have had the screws in a different location, or a different filter base.


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## capeferrelo (Dec 2, 2009)

I find it both funny and frustrating that manufacturers will show the same parts breakdown schematic for two or more units (in this case the WG3 and 8), but in reality there is​ not a whole lot of actual interchange. I suppose the tech writers were too lazy to use better schems. I wonder if the machining could be done to utilize the Walbro screw and springs.

I think I'll be facing the clearance issue soon enough with the 3120 I'm picking up tomorrow. I likely will Tig a small length of Al tube in there to create a channel for adjuster. If so, I'll post pics of the process.


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## bertrand (Dec 3, 2009)

hey Brad i know only for about 3 minutes of phone conversation,where you never said your name. i find out who send me the carb when i have opened the box when i have received it.

i will turn it the other way, let just say i call you to get the fastest chainsaw that you can build. Once i receive it, i open it up,i take pictures ,i take durations , measure the squish, then i check everything on the carburetor and i take picture. After that i will post all these information over here. All that after a couple of hours that i have receive the chainsaw. After that i will be able to offer that to any of my customer that would want to have a wood port chainsaw. Cause i do receive a couple of phone call per years for that kind of modification. What would you say?


I honestly think that when you buy something, it is your property,but you should ask before posting pics of another person work 

you can stay into that kind of bussiness for a long time if you can not be trust!!


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## blsnelling (Dec 3, 2009)

bertrand said:


> hey Brad i know only for about 3 minutes of phone conversation,where you never said your name. i find out who send me the carb when i have opened the box when i have received it.
> 
> i will turn it the other way, let just say i call you to get the fastest chainsaw that you can build. Once i receive it, i open it up,i take pictures ,i take durations , measure the squish, then i check everything on the carburetor and i take picture. After that i will post all these information over here. All that after a couple of hours that i have receive the chainsaw. After that i will be able to offer that to any of my customer that would want to have a wood port chainsaw. Cause i do receive a couple of phone call per years for that kind of modification. What would you say?
> 
> ...



I *completely *understand Simon. Please accept my appologies. It honestly didn't even cross my mind. I promptly pulled the pics when it was brought to my attention, and even removed them from my Web gallery. I hope that suffices. Thanks again for your help.


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## Nitroman (Dec 3, 2009)

Well, I want one!! I really need the adjustability due to the cold temps I am usually cutting in.


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## husq2100 (Dec 3, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> It honestly didn't even cross my mind.



with what went down at the other place and why, maybe this way of thinking is what people are PO with.

I dont think they are worried about you being competion for them, on any level. More just how they see things and the way you have handled yourself.

Just an observers opinion.


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## blsnelling (Dec 3, 2009)

husq2100 said:


> with what went down at the other place and why, maybe this way of thinking is what people are PO with.
> 
> I dont think they are worried about you being competion for them, on any level. More just how they see things and the way you have handled yourself.
> 
> Just an observers opinion.



And I proptly removed them, appologized, and sent Simon a PM. What more do you want?


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## dragrcr (Dec 3, 2009)

Well, not that it matters, but I bet Brad would not care if you bought a saw from him and posted all that info here, in fact, I bet he has told us here more about porting than most anyone else. I know Im beating a dead horse, but If I bought port job, and wanted to show my friends what I got, you can bet I would. If he paid for the mod, then it is now his information to share with whomever he wants. I understand the idea, but few if any are equipped and prepared to do a mod like this, and even fewer of those who are have the balls to try it, and even less have the expierence to pull it off. just my .02


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## blsnelling (Dec 3, 2009)

dragrcr said:


> Well, not that it matters, but I bet Brad would not care if you bought a saw from him and posted all that info here, in fact, I bet he has told us here more about porting than most anyone else. I know Im beating a dead horse, but If I bought port job, and wanted to show my friends what I got, you can bet I would. If he paid for the mod, then it is now his information to share with whomever he wants. I understand the idea, but few if any are equipped and prepared to do a mod like this, and even fewer of those who are have the balls to try it, and even less have the expierence to pull it off. just my .02



You are correct, but I really don't want this thread to go in that direction. I've told guys that had me port their saws to have at them. Take them apart if you want. There are certainly no secrets in there. But seriously, let's not go down that road. It WILL end in disaster if we do.


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## dragrcr (Dec 3, 2009)

fair enough brad, just thought I would share my opimion, but you know what they say about those......


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## blsnelling (Dec 3, 2009)

dragrcr said:


> fair enough brad, just thought I would share my opimion, but you know what they say about those......



Oh, I hear you all right, and agree with you. I also understand Bertrands position. I just know where how this will end up if we continue this discussion. And frankly, I'm tired of the endless bickering.


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## Hddnis (Dec 3, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> And I proptly removed them, appologized, and sent Simon a PM. What more do you want?




Well, for starters, you could die a slow agonizing death caused by an injury from one of your slow, dull, underpowered chainsaws. It would be best if you did it publically, shedding tears of remorse that you dared to tangle with the gods of chainsaw mods. 

It would be best if your wife and children were left penniless, out in the cold, hungry, and had to wear signs that said "Our husband/father dared to tangle with the gods of chainsaw mods."

All of your saws would have to be incinerated as the pagan symbols of witchcraft that they are. 

Your tools would need to be buried in a pit of quicksand.

Every cookie you ever cut would be declared hazardous waste and have to be stored deep in Yucca Mountain.

All the GTG's you ever attended would ban mention of your name and forbid any type of event you ever participated in.

All websites would have written into the rules that you and your work on chainsaws could never be mentioned, even in PM's and they would delete all your threads and posts.

The EPA would fine your estate and put a lien on your relative’s property.

Judge Rocket Donkey stands ready to sign the order.


Like I said, all that just for starters.:greenchainsaw:


Mr. HE


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## blsnelling (Dec 3, 2009)

I'm afraid there are one or two that would think that all a good idea, lol


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## Justsaws (Dec 4, 2009)

bertrand said:


> hey Brad i know only for about 3 minutes of phone conversation,where you never said your name. i find out who send me the carb when i have opened the box when i have received it.
> 
> i will turn it the other way, let just say i call you to get the fastest chainsaw that you can build. Once i receive it, i open it up,i take pictures ,i take durations , measure the squish, then i check everything on the carburetor and i take picture. After that i will post all these information over here. All that after a couple of hours that i have receive the chainsaw. After that i will be able to offer that to any of my customer that would want to have a wood port chainsaw. Cause i do receive a couple of phone call per years for that kind of modification. What would you say?
> 
> ...



I honestly think the seller in this case needs to inform any potential buyers of his non protected product that he would prefer that they not publish any type of documentation of his work. This agreement needs to be made before the buyer agrees to purchase the product and is the responsibility of the seller.

The seller in this case also needs to realize that he is SOL if the buyer decides to publish anyway. If the seller is really that concern about secrecy he should not be selling his product over the phone.

I am editing this to add that my post is not intended to bash Simon or any other builder. It is simply to state my frustrations with this re-occuring issue.


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## husq2100 (Dec 4, 2009)

its pretty simple guys, Bertrand has alot more to loose than Brad. Brad is not doing anything that thousands of others have already done. But guys like Simon Bertrand are at the pointy end of this stuff and a little descrestion goes along way.

alot here put Brad up on a pedastool, im not here to take him down, rather bring some reality. Brad shares everything he does and is helpful, but that doesnt give him the right to share others work.

He has been down this road before and got banned from another site. I know alot wont care about that, alot of he said she said. He is enthusiastic about what he does, but maybe needs to think about his Business ethics.

Brad its not about what more can you do, but rather reflect on what has been done, maybe that could have avoided all of this. Like i said the fact that it didnt enter your mind when it was quite obviously going to cause some controversy


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## Justsaws (Dec 4, 2009)

I am responding again not to argue with you but rather point out where the responsibility lays



husq2100 said:


> its pretty simple guys, Bertrand has alot more to loose than Brad. Brad is not doing anything that thousands of others have already done. But guys like Simon Bertrand are at the pointy end of this stuff and a little descrestion goes along way.
> 
> *Discretion is the sellers responsibility. Never ever leave it to the buyer.If a buyer agrees to a professional courtesy that is one thing but no such agreement was made or even implied as they had not done business before.*
> 
> ...



If we could keep this pleasant and courtious it would be a nice discussion to have on this forum.


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## husq2100 (Dec 4, 2009)

unfortunately it seems that there is a culture in the US and AUS is following, that if something is not writtern in black and white, people take advantage of that. 

How about just some simple common curtiosy and a little professionalism. This saw modding thing came out of guys wanting more, which lead to a race culture, now it doesnt matter what you race in life the culture is the same. want something given to you without doing the work and you wont get far, start sprooking all that others tell you and you wont get told much. Like i said,Brad has been down a smilar road and one would assume he would have seen this comming.

There is no need for all this childish legal crap that has done nothing but restricted the lives of the many by the few that spoil things. Just some basic manners.


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## Justsaws (Dec 4, 2009)

husq2100 said:


> unfortunately it seems that there is a culture in the US and AUS is following, that if something is not writtern in black and white, people take advantage of that.
> 
> 
> How about just some simple common curtiosy and a little professionalism.
> ...



Basic manners indeed, childish crap is thinking that you own or control anything that I purchased from you with out a contract. It is mine and I will do with it as I please unless otherwise previously stipulated in writing. I find it very odd that people are so willing to join the band wagon of thinking that they belong if they obey. Professional courtesy is a two way street. It exists equally or not at all. It should not be considered childish to want to own and enjoy the full benefits what you purchase. It is childish to think that you should not be able enjoy all aspects of your purchase because someone tells you that you are not supposed to over the internet.

Hey, have a good one, I have to go. To each his own.


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## husq2100 (Dec 4, 2009)

Justsaws said:


> Basic manners indeed, childish crap is thinking that you own or control anything that I purchased from you with out a contract. It is mine and I will do with it as I please unless otherwise previously stipulated in writing. I find it very odd that people are so willing to join the band wagon of thinking that they belong if they obey. Professional courtesy is a two way street. It exists equally or not at all. It should not be considered childish to want to own and enjoy the full benefits what you purchase. It is childish to think that you should not be able enjoy all aspects of your purchase because someone tells you that you are not supposed to over the internet.
> 
> Hey, have a good one, I have to go. To each his own.



funny how it is always someone elses responsibility......alot of people have cashed in on that.

you sound alot like a lawer

do we really want to live in a world were we need a lawer to conduct the most simple of lifes tasks..........sounds like a victims nation. If its too hard to grasp the concept of a un writtern rule, you will probably end up with egg on your face.


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## Hddnis (Dec 4, 2009)

husq2100 said:


> funny how it is always someone elses responsibility......alot of people have cashed in on that.
> 
> you sound alot like a lawer
> 
> do we really want to live in a world were we need a lawer to conduct the most simple of lifes tasks..........sounds like a victims nation. If its too hard to grasp the concept of a un writtern rule, you will probably end up with egg on your face.




You are claiming and unwritten rule that simply does not exist at all in any way shape or form. I think you’re clouded by the specifics of this case. Pictures of development work is posted all the time in other hobbies. It is only with a few chainsaw builders that I've ever found this egotistical obsession with secrecy. 

If your product is on the market it is exposed to the scrutiny of that market. Period.


Mr. HE


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## husq2100 (Dec 4, 2009)

I don't think Simon Bertrand calls it a hobbie. The lines were blurred long ago.

alot of stuff is shared in life, but alot is shared in confidence.

we can always justify our actions to ourself, especially when backed into a moral corner.


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## Wildman1024 (Dec 4, 2009)

I'm not taking sides here but i can see it from Both points of view.

I also feel that once something is sold then it has just become "general Knowledge"...meaning if you don't want someone to know about it then don't sell it. I'm sure its not to hard to look at the carb and see exactly what was done and how to do it for future reference.

Same with brads port work. If anyone bought that then they are free to take it apart and do whatever they want with it. If they are smart enough all they have to do is a little measuring and they can do their own brad port job.

If anything I think brad did good. If i was thinkign of having a carb modded I want the best person for the job and I wanna see for myself the quality of work and what was done to it. It will probably bring more business for him now.

just my .02 opcorn:


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## wigglesworth (Dec 4, 2009)

I dont understand what all the hub-bub is about. No doubt the carb mod was cool, but geeze you would think the guy reinvented the wheel. Imho, the carb is no better than a factory adjustable carb. 






*Enough jibba jabba...where is the vid?*


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## OhioGregg (Dec 4, 2009)

Wildman1024 said:


> I'm not taking sides here but i can see it from Both points of view.
> 
> I also feel that once something is sold then it has just become "general Knowledge"...meaning if you don't want someone to know about it then don't sell it. I'm sure its not to hard to look at the carb and see exactly what was done and how to do it for future reference.
> 
> ...



:agree2: With what Wildman just said. 100%
well said.

Gregg,


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## AUSSIE1 (Dec 4, 2009)

husq2100 said:


> do we really want to live in a world were we need a lawer to conduct the most simple of lifes tasks..........sounds like a victims nation. If its too hard to grasp the concept of a un writtern rule, you will probably end up with egg on your face.



Hmmmmmm..... I'd have to agree with this.
There is a lot of ethics that we adhere to with out written law. It's just the done thing.

But with that said, in Brad's defence, looking at how he conducts his business, he's very open with all his methods and tactics. Hence the pics.

Would there be an issue if one was not prompted?
I think some would know what I mean here.

I've been watching this crap evolve from years back from both forums.

Grow up people. Stop crying over spilt milk and lets all have a beer and enjoy our common pastime. Chainsaws.


----------



## bertrand (Dec 4, 2009)

for me it is not an hobby, it is my full time job.when someone put pics of what i do at the end it might be a piece of bread of meat off my table. So in the future people that would want to do business with me, will have to sign a contract of non disclosure. if they don't respect it they will be fine or sued , is it the solution ?? or just a bit of common sense can rule everything. 

i don't think that the culture of secrecy is only for chainsaw racing, do you think that the nascar racing team that buy engine from top builder put them on line for the other team to peek at it??
same thing with motocross racer ,boat racer. just name it nobody share for free what they know in any kind of racing. 

Do you have another way to sell something than over the phone? i have been selling all over the US Canada and Europe. What would be the price of the chainsaw if you have to be there in person to close the deal?

if somebody post pics of some else job it is just a huge lack of respect toward the R&D than this person have put into it

this not a question of ego at all, this is my full time job and i like what i do and i want to keep it . I know that every time i sell a chainsaw the newest R&D is in there. i am always afraid that it end up somewhere it doesn't belong, so far it didn't happen (that i know) and that is why i can still make a living out of it. 

i have to be thank full to all my customer that have been able to respect what i have build for them by keeping it ,for them.


----------



## stihlboy (Dec 4, 2009)

bertrand said:


> for me it is not an hobby, it is my full time job.when someone put pics of what i do at the end it might be a piece of bread of meat off my table. So in the future people that would want to do business with me, will have to sign a contract of non disclosure. if they don't respect it they will be fine or sued , is it the solution ?? or just a bit of common sense can rule everything.
> 
> i don't think that the culture of secrecy is only for chainsaw racing, do you think that the nascar racing team that buy engine from top builder put them on line for the other team to peek at it??
> same thing with motocross racer ,boat racer. just name it nobody share for free what they know in any kind of racing.
> ...



good post


----------



## blsnelling (Dec 4, 2009)

husq2100 said:


> unfortunately it seems that there is a culture in the US and AUS is following, that if something is not writtern in black and white, people take advantage of that.
> 
> How about just some simple common curtiosy and a little professionalism. This saw modding thing came out of guys wanting more, which lead to a race culture, now it doesnt matter what you race in life the culture is the same. want something given to you without doing the work and you wont get far, start sprooking all that others tell you and you wont get told much. Like i said,Brad has been down a smilar road and one would assume he would have seen this comming.
> 
> *There is no need for all this childish legal crap* that has done nothing but restricted the lives of the many by the few that spoil things. Just some basic manners.


I agree with you entirely.



wigglesworth said:


> I dont understand what all the hub-bub is about. No doubt the carb mod was cool, but geeze you would think the guy reinvented the wheel. Imho, the carb is no better than a factory adjustable carb.


That's just the thing. You *can't *buy a bolt on replacement carb with a H needle. I tried.



AUSSIE1 said:


> Hmmmmmm..... I'd have to agree with this.
> There is a lot of ethics that we adhere to with out written law. It's just the done thing.
> 
> But with that said, in Brad's defence, looking at how he conducts his business, he's very open with all his methods and tactics. Hence the pics.


Yes, and yes. But that's because I choose to. Not everyone does. Woods porting is done by a lot of people. This carb mod is not. 



bertrand said:


> for me it is not an hobby, it is my full time job.when someone put pics of what i do at the end it might be a piece of bread of meat off my table. So in the future people that would want to do business with me, will have to sign a contract of non disclosure. if they don't respect it they will be fine or sued , is it the solution ?? or just a bit of common sense can rule everything.
> 
> i don't think that the culture of secrecy is only for chainsaw racing, do you think that the nascar racing team that buy engine from top builder put them on line for the other team to peek at it??
> same thing with motocross racer ,boat racer. just name it nobody share for free what they know in any kind of racing.
> ...


I completely understand, Simon. There's a big difference between me doing a common woods port as a hobby, and you doing the stuff you do full time. I believe you have the right to ask me not to post the details. This isn't stuff that everyone and their brother does, like woods porting. Again, I hope this all doesn't drive you away from us enthusiasts too much. I was careless in what I initially showed, plain and simple. I should have known better!


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## 04ultra (Dec 4, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> I completely understand, Simon. *There's a big difference between me doing a common woods port as a hobby*, and you doing the stuff you do full time. I believe you have the right to ask me not to post the details. This isn't stuff that everyone and their brother does, like woods porting. Again, I hope this all doesn't drive you away from us enthusiasts too much. I was careless in what I initially showed, plain and simple. I should have known better!



You are a business Brad ...........Your charging for what you do....Many people get cought up in the its only a hobby till the IRS cracks them .......Dont ask how I know ..........Audits suck trust me ....


----------



## gink595 (Dec 4, 2009)

Hddnis said:


> You are claiming and unwritten rule that simply does not exist at all in any way shape or form. I think you’re clouded by the specifics of this case. Pictures of development work is posted all the time in other hobbies. It is only with a few chainsaw builders that I've ever found this egotistical obsession with secrecy.
> 
> If your product is on the market it is exposed to the scrutiny of that market. Period.
> 
> ...



You obviously are in the dark, why don't you ask a top builder to go build a saw for you and see what they saw. They will say NO WAY becasue you think it okay to share what they did. It's commone sense that it is not okay, they took the time to figure out this stuff, the money in equipment tools and knoweledge isn't earned in a night, any secrets or tricks they have learned or were taught isn't for you or anyone else to share with the rest of the world. If they would have wanted to share the info I'm sure the builder would have a how-to thread on it.

You will never see me post a single picture of a race chain or a ported saw that I have had someone do. It is common curtiosy, at least it is to me. And that is why I have been able to have someone like a Copsey build me a saw, it's not becasue I'm someone special or even a decent racer, it's because I will not show or share his work. The only thing this does is make the real builders more leary of who they do work for, so common people that are wanting to have work done from these professionals is going to get scarce or become very expensive.


----------



## nategyoder (Dec 4, 2009)

gink595 said:


> You obviously are in the dark, why don't you ask a top builder to go build a saw for you and see what they saw. They will say NO WAY becasue you think it okay to share what they did. It's commone sense that it is not okay, they took the time to figure out this stuff, the money in equipment tools and knoweledge isn't earned in a night, any secrets or tricks they have learned or were taught isn't for you or anyone else to share with the rest of the world. If they would have wanted to share the info I'm sure the builder would have a how-to thread on it.
> 
> You will never see me post a single picture of a race chain or a ported saw that I have had someone do. It is common curtiosy, at least it is to me. And that is why I have been able to have someone like a Copsey build me a saw, it's not becasue I'm someone special or even a decent racer, it's because I will not show or share his work. The only thing this does is make the real builders more leary of who they do work for, so common people that are wanting to have work done from these professionals is going to get scarce or become very expensive.



Good post Gink and I agree. If I am ever lucky enough and have any money to get some hot rod saw I would never share anything out of respect.

I also respect Brad and everything he gives to this site and think he was just excited and wanted to share, like he always does with everyone, and made a mistake which he promptly corrected.

Nate


----------



## Boleclimber (Dec 4, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> I agree with you entirely.
> 
> 
> That's just the thing. You *can't *buy a bolt on replacement carb with a H needle. I tried.
> ...



Having done a similar stunt a few years ago, you think you would have not "should" have known better.


----------



## stihlboy (Dec 4, 2009)

Boleclimber said:


> Having done a similar stunt a few years ago, you think you would have not "should" have known better.



i thought it was last year


----------



## Boleclimber (Dec 4, 2009)

stihlboy said:


> i thought it was last year



Man time gos by slow. You are right, it was only last year!


----------



## stihlboy (Dec 4, 2009)

before you know it this thread will be locked. we bring up something somebody doesn't like and it gets locked...... wow what a surprise


brad, a hobby porting saws wouldn't cost people money.


----------



## Hddnis (Dec 4, 2009)

gink595 said:


> You obviously are in the dark, why don't you ask a top builder to go build a saw for you and see what they saw. They will say NO WAY becasue you think it okay to share what they did. It's commone sense that it is not okay, they took the time to figure out this stuff, the money in equipment tools and knoweledge isn't earned in a night, any secrets or tricks they have learned or were taught isn't for you or anyone else to share with the rest of the world. If they would have wanted to share the info I'm sure the builder would have a how-to thread on it.
> 
> You will never see me post a single picture of a race chain or a ported saw that I have had someone do. It is common curtiosy, at least it is to me. And that is why I have been able to have someone like a Copsey build me a saw, it's not becasue I'm someone special or even a decent racer, it's because I will not show or share his work. The only thing this does is make the real builders more leary of who they do work for, so common people that are wanting to have work done from these professionals is going to get scarce or become very expensive.






Truth is that as long as they want the money they'll build the saws. Same as Stihl or Husky or anybody else. If what they do is worth so much they can get a patent. If they don't want the bother, or the cost isn't justified, then that is their call to make.

There is no rule, or courtesy, that says you can't post pictures of what you buy. If they don't want pictures posted they can ask and that is fine, they can even put a line about it in a contract. Again, if that is too much bother then they don't have all that valuable a product to start with.

You really think that something I post here will scare these builders out of making the products they do? I think not. In fact I think the guy who did the carb is going to get some business out of all this. I don't think he would have lost any if Brad had left the pictures up. The people that would have tried their own carb will try anyway. 


Mr. HE


----------



## gink595 (Dec 4, 2009)

Hddnis said:


> Truth is that as long as they want the money they'll build the saws.



That is not the case and I challenge you to ask one of them to build a saw to see if it is BS or not, these guys that are good don't care if they build a saw for joe blow or not. They just don't care about the money, maybe some but not the real good ones. I offered to pay EC a good amount more than he charged me becasue I felt he undercharged me considerably and you know what his answer was as he gave me the 100 back? He said he doesn't do it for the money and thanked me for the challenge and hoped I would take a intrerest in racing saws for more competition at some point.



Hddnis said:


> There is no rule, or courtesy, that says you can't post pictures of what you buy. If they don't want pictures posted they can ask and that is fine, they can even put a line about it in a contract. Again, if that is too much bother then they don't have all that valuable a product to start with.



The more I read of your posts and your ideas of things the more I begin to think we wouldn't get along very well. You seem to need a contract or a patent to give someone the courtesy of not sharing their work, what is wrong with just respecting the boundries of someone elses work? Why does there seem to be a need to have a contract to do everything, what is wrong with commone sense? Do you have a contract with your wife for bedroom manners to?



Hddnis said:


> You really think that something I post here will scare these builders out of making the products they do? I think not. In fact I think the guy who did the carb is going to get some business out of all this. I don't think he would have lost any if Brad had left the pictures up. The people that would have tried their own carb will try anyway.
> 
> 
> Mr. HE



No I don't think what you post will effect anyone to any extreme, but I bet you couldn't get a good builder to build you a saw either, not that you probably care, but in Brads case if effects him a lot, do you think Simon will ever build him another carb? I don't know either but I bet he will think about it harder than he did the first time. He might get more buisness out of it, and he might lose some that he would have got due to it, just mentioning the his name would have gotten him buisness, posting his work could possible lose buisness. Either way it's not good to do if your trying to build relationships, especially when your in the saw building buisness. Just my opionion and it works for me, I guess do what works for you, but if you have a contract I will gladly sign it:greenchainsaw:


----------



## gink595 (Dec 4, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> Gink, not everyone has the attitude Copesey does. How do you think I learned to port? It sure wasn't from Eric. It was from people like myself that don't mind sharing what they do. And those people do this work for hire as well. They're simply confident in what they do and go on about their own business, unlike others that try to tear down anyone that comes along, that they view as possible competition. There will never be a shortage of people that don't want to do this kind of work themselves. I don't care how many details you show them. It's just not the kind of thing some people are good at. *Please keep the Race Saws attitude at Race Saws and let AS be the sharing community that it is. *



You don't mind sharing what you do AND you don't mind sharing what other people do....There is a big difference there, once you learn that you might not have these conflicts. I'm sorry if you think I have some RS atitude, but it is my own opionion. I'm not tearing you down one bit, and if I have show me where I have? Share YOUR work and ask before you SHARE someone elses work, thats all I'm saying, if thats seems to unreasonable to you than I don't know what to say


----------



## FATGUY (Dec 4, 2009)

This isn't alchemy guys, but those that are good at it continue to get the work. If I do or make something for someone, I'll provide a video if they like. If someone is so certain their method is so superior, or worth so much, then spend the money and patent the process/product. Me, I'll just stick to doing what I do and not worry someone else will do it better.


----------



## 04ultra (Dec 4, 2009)

*Is this where we start a thread about all the picking on poor Bradley???*opcorn:opcorn:


----------



## blsnelling (Dec 4, 2009)

04ultra said:


> *Is this where we start a thread about all the picking on poor Bradley???*opcorn:opcorn:



You'll likely just be accused of doing it to draw attention to yourself


----------



## 04ultra (Dec 4, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> You'll likely just be accused of doing it to draw attention to yourself



...................................









.


----------



## Hddnis (Dec 4, 2009)

gink595 said:


> That is not the case and I challenge you to ask one of them to build a saw to see if it is BS or not, these guys that are good don't care if they build a saw for joe blow or not. They just don't care about the money, maybe some but not the real good ones. I offered to pay EC a good amount more than he charged me becasue I felt he undercharged me considerably and you know what his answer was as he gave me the 100 back? He said he doesn't do it for the money and thanked me for the challenge and hoped I would take a intrerest in racing saws for more competition at some point.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I don't understand the idea that they don't do it for money, because they simply love the work, but then they want to protect that work and claim a monetary stake in having it protected. It just does not compute.

I'm sorry you don't think we would get along. A difference of opinion is rarely grounds to write someone else off. Also, if you really read much of what I post you would know that I like things simple and straightforward. But they can only be that way if people spell out their expectations. Everyone jumped on Brad claiming he violated some obvious rule. A rule which I don't believe exists and that is what I'm saying. I think if it was that important it would be mentioned by the builder in some way.

In the end it doesn't matter if they'll build a saw for me or not. What matters is that they build saws. If they have expectations of their customers they need to say so. That is simply good business. 

At the end of it I also think that we differ on the esteem we hold builders in. I don't know the builder you use and I have nothing against him. I've heard your side of him and I've heard Brad's side of him. That doesn't matter to me as I've never met or dealt with him on any level. I don't doubt his abilities, but I don't regard them either. I really think it is sad and wrong that he keeps coming up, tainting good threads here. You are part of that, why do you feel the need to drag him into everything? Frankly it seems you love the guy more than your wife. (Since _you_ went there.) 


Mr. HE


----------



## stihlboy (Dec 4, 2009)

gink595 said:


> You don't mind sharing what you do AND you don't mind sharing what other people do....There is a big difference there, once you learn that you might not have these conflicts. I'm sorry if you think I have some RS atitude, but it is my own opionion. I'm not tearing you down one bit, and if I have show me where I have? Share YOUR work and ask before you SHARE someone elses work, thats all I'm saying, if thats seems to unreasonable to you than I don't know what to say



awesome post frank


----------



## blsnelling (Dec 4, 2009)

stihlboy said:


> awesome post frank



You drinking the Kool Aide too now?


----------



## stihlboy (Dec 4, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> You drinking the Kool Aide too now?



i know nothing:monkey:


----------



## blsnelling (Dec 4, 2009)

stihlboy said:


> i know nothing:monkey:



A jug of it probably came with Cut4Funs 084. I'm sure that's the whole intent.


----------



## woodshed (Dec 4, 2009)

Didn't you apologize and make it right, like, two pages ago Brad? What's the big deal, or are you just the easy target for the snarky today?

Scott


----------



## stihlboy (Dec 4, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> A jug of it probably came with Cut4Funs 084. I'm sure that's the whole intent.



sorry man its been a long day i need sleep or else i get mean.

best of luck with your next projects!


----------



## gink595 (Dec 4, 2009)

Hddnis said:


> I really think it is sad and wrong that he keeps coming up, tainting good threads here. You are part of that, why do you feel the need to drag him into everything? Frankly it seems you love the guy more than your wife. (Since _you_ went there.)
> 
> 
> Mr. HE



Hey Mr.SHE, 

If you go back to my original thread about my woods ported 7900, I think you will find I never brought him up, I just refered to him as the man that ported my saw, I do believe it was Brad that brought him up and pretty much turned MY thread upside down, so was it Eric or Brad that tainted a good thread....Hmmmmm Just a thought. I brought Eric up here to show a example of being curtious to someone work, me being the curtious one and Eric being the builder. So Mr. SHE care to show me where I drag him up and ruin all these so called good threads???? Even though Eric is a nice guy and all I can't say I love him but love his work, and if my wife could build a saw like him I would love her the same. Find some links please to back up your BS... 

BTW I'm not the one that follows Brad around in every thread trying to defend him, and I'm sure I can findsome links of your tainted brown nose around here, I might even start a thread about it:greenchainsaw:


----------



## blsnelling (Dec 4, 2009)

woodshed said:


> Didn't you apologize and make it right, like, two pages ago Brad? What's the big deal, or are you just the easy target for the snarky today?
> 
> Scott



Logic and common sense do not apply here. Didn't you see that in the forum rules?


----------



## blsnelling (Dec 4, 2009)

gink595 said:


> Hey Mr.SHE,
> 
> If you go back to my original thread about my woods ported 7900, I think you will find I never brought him up, I just refered to him as the man that ported my saw, I do believe it was Brad that brought him up and pretty much turned MY thread upside down, so was it Eric or Brad that tainted a good thread....Hmmmmm Just a thought. I brought Eric up here to show a example of being curtious to someone work, me being the curtious one and Eric being the builder. So Mr. SHE care to show me where I drag him up and ruin all these so called good threads???? Even though Eric is a nice guy and all I can't say I love him but love his work, and if my wife could build a saw like him I would love her the same. Find some links please to back up your BS...
> 
> BTW I'm not the one that follows Brad around in every thread trying to defend him, and I'm sure I can findsome links of your tainted brown nose around here, I might even start a thread about it:greenchainsaw:



I tend to believe that the whole reason your 7900 was posted here was *because of who built it*.


----------



## gink595 (Dec 4, 2009)

Hmmmm..... I suppose it couldn't be because I'm a member here and it is a awesome running saw, and it is a 7900 to boot. Once again go re-read that thread see at what point I actually acknowledge who built the saw, I beleive it was after *YOU* called him out...Go chew on that


----------



## woodshed (Dec 4, 2009)

> I tend to believe that the whole reason your 7900 was posted here was *because of who built it.*



Ooh, that's gonna leave a mark! opcorn:

Scott


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## gink595 (Dec 4, 2009)

Not on me it's not


----------



## Hddnis (Dec 4, 2009)

gink595 said:


> Not on me it's not




It's already there.

None of us were born yesterday. I really did hope when you started that thread that I was wrong about what I saw it for. In the end I was right and that was proven by how _you_ responded to people in that thread. Nevertheless I've tried to look past that and apprciate your contributions to the chainsaw hobby.

In that thread specifically neither Brad or Eric (he's banned IIRC) started the fight. It was another poster that took a thinly veiled remark and added to it, basically blow the thread up.

Why do you feel the need to prove a certain saw builder is a nice guy, or misunderstood, or in the right?


Mr. HE


----------



## Maldeney (Dec 4, 2009)

Hddnis said:


> It's already there.
> 
> None of us were born yesterday. I really did hope when you started that thread that I was wrong about what I saw it for. In the end I was right and that was proven by how _you_ responded to people in that thread. Nevertheless I've tried to look past that and apprciate your contributions to the chainsaw hobby.
> 
> ...




Dude..... Shut.... up!


----------



## Kemper (Dec 4, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> I tend to believe that the whole reason your 7900 was posted here was *because of who built it*.




That's a cheap shot...


----------



## Hddnis (Dec 4, 2009)

Maldeney said:


> Dude..... Shut.... up!




You again!:hmm3grin2orange:



Mr. HE


----------



## Andyshine77 (Dec 4, 2009)

Let me ask this. What's the end goal here? What's the point of all this??


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## StihlyinEly (Dec 4, 2009)

opcorn:


----------



## Hddnis (Dec 4, 2009)

Andyshine77 said:


> Let me ask this. What's the end goal here? What's the point of all this??




You're right, it's pointless.



Mr. HE


----------



## Maldeney (Dec 4, 2009)

Hddnis said:


> You're right, it's pointless.
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. HE





Yeah me again... Why you want to fire off at me too?


----------



## scotvl (Dec 4, 2009)

Man that 3120 is one Mean Fukin Machine.


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## 04ultra (Dec 4, 2009)

.


Well Gypo whats your take on all of this ???







.


----------



## gink595 (Dec 4, 2009)

Hddnis said:


> It's already there.
> 
> None of us were born yesterday. I really did hope when you started that thread that I was wrong about what I saw it for. In the end I was right and that was proven by how _you_ responded to people in that thread. Nevertheless I've tried to look past that and apprciate your contributions to the chainsaw hobby.
> 
> ...




Where? I'm asking you, you made a coment about me now show me where I mentioned who built the saw.... I never did until Brad took a cheap shot at him... You are babling here making claims and then skirting around....Show me where I ever mentioned his name before Brad????

Reread the thread genuis I posted a saw and it's results, you all made the big bag of worms of it. I feel no need to try and prove a race saw builder, I was just giving my take after Brad gave his cheap shots and there were many, so post links Genius show me that I have done what you say??? Can you do this or are you just going to make claims, the reading is there now go try and find it. I was very careful iin mentioning any names, I got a lot of PM's that I didn't answer also. So you call me out, now I call you out. Show me MR.She-Man UN


----------



## gink595 (Dec 4, 2009)

Hddnis said:


> You're right, it's pointless.
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. HE UN



Kinda like you...pointless. You stir a bunch of crap and then try and point fingers at someone else, so come on She-Man show me I'm calling your BS out show me links


----------



## gink595 (Dec 4, 2009)

Hddnis said:


> Why do you feel the need to prove a certain saw builder is a nice guy, or misunderstood, or in the right?
> 
> 
> Mr. HE




Let me ask you the same question She-man.... Why do you feel the need to jump into all of Brads battles and defend him and show that he is a nice guy, or misunderstood, or in the right. I can guarentee you I can find examples, if Brad ever stoped to fast your wife would wonder what happened to your nose. I think Brad has found a new puppy...LOL


----------



## TommySaw (Dec 4, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> It's here!
> 
> Thanks Brad. You have been outstanding to deal with.
> 
> ...



grats on the saw, enjoy!! feel free to take some vids and share


----------



## Hddnis (Dec 4, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> It's here!
> 
> Thanks Brad. You have been outstanding to deal with.
> 
> ...





Cool!

I hope you'll be able to share some pictures of the work you do with it.



Mr. HE


----------



## scotvl (Dec 4, 2009)

gink595 said:


> Let me ask you the same question She-man.... Why do you feel the need to jump into all of Brads battles and defend him and show that he is a nice guy, or misunderstood, or in the right. I can guarentee you I can find examples, if Brad ever stoped to fast your wife would wonder what happened to your nose. I think Brad has found a new puppy...LOL


Your posts are getting pathetic and way off topic, go post a new topic about your elite saw, atleast its fun to watch.


----------



## troutfisher (Dec 4, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> It's here!
> 
> Thanks Brad. You have been outstanding to deal with.
> 
> ...



Hey Treeco, this saw has kicked hornets nests on two different forums. Please get some vids and pics and keep us posted! Thanks!


----------



## Gypo Logger (Dec 4, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> It's here!
> 
> Thanks Brad. You have been outstanding to deal with.
> 
> ...


 Treeco, your 3120 is infamous already. Why did you choose a 3120 as opposed to the 088?
John


----------



## husq2100 (Dec 4, 2009)

Andyshine77 said:


> Let me ask this. What's the end goal here? What's the point of all this??



There wasnt any "goal" in the negative sense as you put it when this thread was started. It was just another one of Brads modding threads. But as soon as he acted poorly AGAIN, doing the same things that stirred up #### before, he got called on it. What really made it worse was his reaction to what he had done. Along with all the people that feel he can not be brought attention to the way he deals with this type of thing.

For those that continue to demand a contract or patent, that is simply just a egotistical self glorrifying statement. As they well know you cant get a patent on this sort of stuff, and a contract would be econmically un viable. At the end of the day even if it is a business for some, its their passion that gets them there as well as their attitude.

Its quite simple, anyone from RS gets bashed here as do the AS guys over there.

Funny thing is i have a feeling alot here still go there, Brad? how did you know about C4F and stihlkids deal?

Yes I am a member of both, and if you think that makes me a hypocrit thats your choice, I haven't been disrepsectful to anyone here. Im just stating an opinion that is mine, but seems to be supported by others as well.

If you truely think that people have nothing better to do and no reason to do this so called "picking" on Brad then you may want to remove your blinkers.


----------



## Justsaws (Dec 4, 2009)

Is the original owner of this saw now allowed to sell this saw in its current operating condition at any time, for any reason, to anyone?

Since both sellers in this story have admitted to doing interstate and international sales over the phone and have placed their product on a saw known to be used for commercial gain in an urban setting by a companies's employees, have they protected themselves or their families in any way?

If not, are they conducting business in a professional manner?

There are lots of skilled tradesman and craftsmen in the world. Some of them are considered to be masters of the craft that they practice. That does not make them professionals in the market place. There is a difference and it is an important one. 

Let me put it to you this way. How close is the femoral artery to the maxed out chain on this particular "stumping saw" when it is being used by someone assigned stump duty on any given day? 

Professionalism is more than production, hand shakes and assumptions.


----------



## husq2100 (Dec 4, 2009)

Justsaws said:


> Is the original owner of this saw now allowed to sell this saw in its current operating condition at any time, for any reason, to anyone?
> 
> Since both sellers in this story have admitted to doing interstate and international sales over the phone and have placed their product on a saw known to be used for commercial gain in an urban setting by a companies's employees, have they protected themselves or their families in any way?
> 
> ...



when i read stuff like this, i know who is to blame for the big flashing warning lights and alarms that tell me to but my foot on the brake before putting the car into gear(auto) ........ just keep looking for reasons to blame others for your actions, there will be no end to excusses, except the freedom to enjoy life

the few spoil it for the many.


----------



## FATGUY (Dec 4, 2009)

husq2100 said:


> There wasnt any "goal" in the negative sense as you put it when this thread was started. It was just another one of Brads modding threads. But as soon as he acted poorly AGAIN, doing the same things that stirred up #### before, he got called on it. What really made it worse was his reaction to what he had done. Along with all the people that feel he can not be brought attention to the way he deals with this type of thing.
> 
> For those that continue to demand a contract or* patent, that is simply just a egotistical self glorrifying statement. *As they well know you cant get a patent on this sort of stuff, and a contract would be econmically un viable. At the end of the day even if it is a business for some, its their passion that gets them there as well as their attitude.
> 
> ...



not at all, if they're so great, and their process is so revolutionary, then patend it.... (yeah, I though so, same soup just warmed up in a different bowl),


----------



## PLAYINWOOD (Dec 4, 2009)

FATGUY said:


> not at all, if they're so great, and their process is so revolutionary, then patend it.... (yeah, I though so, same soup just warmed up in a different bowl),




I have a friend who is building a "revolutionary" wind turbine, lots of work has gone into this unit and I "think" he's on to something.

Checked out patent applications
15000 for Canada and 25000 for the US but as the lawyers say...
give us 10000 cash and it can get done.

If 42 changes on any design is changed it doesn't warrant patent infractions. Bolt sizes changed, blade angles changed 1 degree, pole size ect,ect before long my friend is SOL.
The game plan now is get them in the air, fast.

The chainsaw builders know this and every thing is built on trust, because its all they have and its assumed if a builder does you a favor of building you something you keep it between yourselves.Its just the way it is.

Anybody buy you booze underage???

No need for a war
Brad, keep building saws


----------



## FATGUY (Dec 4, 2009)

PLAYINWOOD said:


> I have a friend who is building a "revolutionary" wind turbine, lots of work has gone into this unit and I "think" he's on to something.
> 
> Checked out patent applications
> 15000 for Canada and 25000 for the US but as the lawyers say...
> ...



roflmao!!!
hell no, took it right out of the homemade demijohn!!!


----------



## TommySaw (Dec 4, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I'll probably send in some pics but I don't own a video camera.



wat?!?! You mean it didn't come with the saw something so beautiful should have it's own film crew:greenchainsaw:


----------



## gink595 (Dec 4, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I'll probably send in some pics but I don't own a video camera.



That was my problem too, but my wife bought a vid camera and now i can't figure out how to upload them and edit.... Urgh technology is frustarting to say the least. Great saw TCo hope it serves you well


----------



## blsnelling (Dec 4, 2009)

gink595 said:


> I think Brad has found a new puppy...LOL



LOL. Now *that *was funny


----------



## Freyboy23 (Dec 4, 2009)

That Saw is Nice man!! Looks good!:greenchainsaw:


----------



## blsnelling (Dec 4, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> It's here!
> 
> Thanks Brad. You have been outstanding to deal with.
> 
> ...



Hey, that saw looks familiar. I'd love to see your response the first time you bury that 36" bar with that thing! It was a pleasure doing business with you as well.

And to all this bantering back and for, you know what I have to say about it?

























*MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL, AND TO ALL A GOOD NIGHT*


----------



## blsnelling (Dec 4, 2009)

husq2100 said:


> Brad? how did you know about C4F and stihlkids deal?



Fred told me.


----------



## Meadow Beaver (Dec 4, 2009)

Andyshine77 said:


> Let me ask this. What's the end goal here? What's the point of all this??



All of his threads are, they just go on and on and on....


----------



## 056 kid (Dec 5, 2009)

bertrand said:


> for me it is not an hobby, it is my full time job.when someone put pics of what i do at the end it might be a piece of bread of meat off my table. So in the future people that would want to do business with me, will have to sign a contract of non disclosure. if they don't respect it they will be fine or sued , is it the solution ?? or just a bit of common sense can rule everything.
> 
> i don't think that the culture of secrecy is only for chainsaw racing, do you think that the nascar racing team that buy engine from top builder put them on line for the other team to peek at it??
> same thing with motocross racer ,boat racer. just name it nobody share for free what they know in any kind of racing.
> ...



Jesus christ, you really think alot of yourself, like alot of others around here.

Sure I do too but i pride myself in cutting trees, not grinding on saws & acting like they are top fuel drag cars with secret pics of the port work & engine mapping. Then keeping everything a big secret like its what i just said...

Everyone just #### and be nice for Santa...


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## 056 kid (Dec 5, 2009)

Bowtie said:


> All 056 kid can do is run his keyboard, never useful info or likewise. He's a good candidate for the ignore function.



I can run a key board, a saw, and maybe you.

i am glad to be on your ignore list cause I shure as hell dont like what you say, now I dont follow your posts but as far as I know, you are one of thoes dudes whit a ton of rep, and well, not much else.

Frankly i dont see where you get off runnin your mouth about me either seing as how you live in central Kansas where there are just *soo* many trees to cut...

If a guy is gonna do work on a saw, and sell it, its not his any more. the saw itself, the work on the saw, pics of the saw, whispered secrets about the saw. None.

its life, you cant have your cake & eat it too..


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## parrisw (Dec 5, 2009)

Man the last time I saw this much crap was well, umm this morning when I got off the toilet!!!!! LOL


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## Justsaws (Dec 5, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> I'll be the only one using this saw and from what I've read in this thread I probably shouldn't be cutting stumps low with it. I'll use my 066 for stumps and use this 3120 for bucking large trunks. It will be ran with .404 and a 36 inch bar.
> 
> I've considered a 48 inch bar. Any suggestions as to the best bar? .



Shot for the moon, Oregon reduce weight or go the extreme opposite and get the Cannon. Aptly named as that is about what they weigh. I go with .063 in case you want to swap between .375 or .404. There are some sweet bargains available on .063 x .404 and in-expensive chain is almost always good in the sign and fence zone.

I do not know how confident I would be flush cutting stumps with that particular 3120. It really does sound like all the margins for error have been removed.

Using your situation in my questions was not intended to give you a hard time but rather a easily referenced situation. Good luck with the saw.


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## Justsaws (Dec 5, 2009)

husq2100 said:


> when i read stuff like this, i know who is to blame for the big flashing warning lights and alarms that tell me to but my foot on the brake before putting the car into gear(auto) ........ just keep looking for reasons to blame others for your actions, there will be no end to excusses, except the freedom to enjoy life
> 
> the few spoil it for the many.



You have that backwards. Contracts prevent stupid lawsuits, it is that simple. They also prevent stupid arguments over the Internet about imaginary assumptive rules of conduct that apparently customers only find out about when they break one of these imaginary assumptive rules. 

Contracts can be free. The main purpose of the contract is to communicate what the parties involved can expect from doing business. Can I post pictures? Can I sell this carb to a third party a week after I buy it? Is there a warranty? 

These builders should have a non-commercial use clauses, among others. Hiding on the Internet where you sponsor the site that you advertise on pretty much stops your hobby from being a hobby just like repetitive sales over the phone, acceptance of PayPal, and charging for shipping.

It is my opinion that these builders are the ones making excuses and failing to take responsibility for their actions. Being responsible starts before there is a problem, just like being professional.


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## husq2100 (Dec 5, 2009)

Justsaws said:


> You have that backwards. Contracts prevent stupid lawsuits, it is that simple. They also prevent stupid arguments over the Internet about imaginary assumptive rules of conduct that apparently customers only find out about when they break one of these imaginary assumptive rules.
> 
> Contracts can be free. The main purpose of the contract is to communicate what the parties involved can expect from doing business. Can I post pictures? Can I sell this carb to a third party a week after I buy it? Is there a warranty?
> 
> These builders should have a non-commercial use clauses, among others. Hiding on the Internet where you sponsor the site that you advertise on pretty much stops your hobby from being a hobby just like repetitive sales over the phone, acceptance of PayPal, and charging for shipping.



no mate, stupid lawsuits come from stupid people or those trying to take advantage................the stupid tend to be victums of them selves, either they cant take responsibilty for their actions or they are easierly misslead by others that have something to gain or nothing better to do.

i wonder how many here supporting the free trade of others ideas actually have something of value they could share or lose?

the reason Audi and others have to have warnings all over their vehicles is because someone in the US sued them when they go out and left the car in drive...............:monkey:


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## Justsaws (Dec 5, 2009)

husq2100 said:


> no mate, stupid lawsuits come from stupid people or those trying to take advantage................the stupid tend to be victums of them selves, either they cant take responsibilty for their actions or they are easierly misslead by others that have something to gain or nothing better to do.
> 
> i wonder how many here supporting the free trade of others ideas actually have something of value they could share or lose?
> 
> the reason Audi and others have to have warnings all over their vehicles is because someone in the US sued them when they go out and left the car in drive...............:monkey:



Just to be clear, I am not supporting the free trade of others ideas as long as these others have protected their ideas. Once they sell an unprotected idea then it is done. My complaint is when people who sell an unprotected idea to the public then complain when it gets out in the public. 

I know exactly what is at stake when it comes to patents and copyrights. I am very well aware of the frustrations of ideas being lost to the public and profited from by others. I do not however believe that a professional whines about it after they sell it unprotected to the public, especially if they made no effort at all to protect it.

Blinkers and buzzers are the perfect example of why these builders need contracts. They have to protect themselves from their customers as best they can.


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## husq2100 (Dec 5, 2009)

Justsaws said:


> Just to be clear, I am not supporting the free trade of others ideas as long as these others have protected their ideas. Once they sell an unprotected idea then it is done. My complaint is when people who sell an unprotected idea to the public then complain when it gets out in the public.
> 
> I know exactly what is at stake when it comes to patents and copyrights. I am very well aware of the frustrations of ideas being lost to the public and profited from by others. I do not however believe that a professional whines about it after they sell it unprotected to the public, especially if they made no effort at all to protect it.
> 
> Blinkers and buzzers are the perfect example of why these builders need contracts. They have to protect themselves from their customers as best they can.



my frustration comes from "how did was people get this screwed up" i wonder what our grand fathers would think about todays behaviour etc.

im not saying stick our heads in the sand and hope it will be alright, that would just let free rain to those stupid and crooked, but i certainly wont give into to it and support it by falling into the world they are creating


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## husq2100 (Dec 5, 2009)

I will say this regarding copy rights or patents. For all those saying that is what should be done, they either know nothing about saws, patents or both.

It's simply a BS call that you feel will get you out of an argument. There is nothing new enough or invented here to patent, so i guess you say then why keep it closely gaurded. Well ask yourself this, it there is no secrets or tricks why isnt Brad or anyone of us building the fastest work or ########. 

There is no black magic,just time, trial, lots of error and those few that have a complete understanding of whats going on... for that they deserve the respect of privacy.


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## nanuk (Dec 5, 2009)

*Wow... what a thread*

two points

1) Thank you Simon for providing a needed service!

2) Thank you Brad for showing how it looks on the saw, and what it took to make it fit

I don't need to see the intricacies of the unit, as I couldn't mod one myself, but it was beneficial to see how much work it took to make it work on said saw. kinda like seeing a V8 engine swap into a toyota truck. I don't need to know how the extra 80hp was created, but sure helpful to know how to make it fit in the compartment! 

this is useful to anyone looking to get Simon to do some work for them.

if I was to do this, I might need to send in the whole saw!

oh.. yeah.. and those of you who need to whip it out to see who has the longer one... be careful, you work with a powertool!


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## gink595 (Dec 5, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> LOL. Now *that *was funny



I figured you'd get it, LOL Kinda a inside joke I guess


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## 056 kid (Dec 5, 2009)

husq2100 said:


> those few that have a complete understanding of whats going on... for that they deserve the respect of privacy.



Dont sell them if one wants privacy...


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## OhioGregg (Dec 5, 2009)

nanuk said:


> two points
> 
> 1) Thank you Simon for providing a needed service!
> 
> ...



 Hey That makes the most sense of anything I heard on here in a long time!!! You must be new here.


Gregg,


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## Justsaws (Dec 5, 2009)

husq2100 said:


> I will say this regarding copy rights or patents. For all those saying that is what should be done, they either know nothing about saws, patents or both.
> 
> It's simply a BS call that you feel will get you out of an argument. There is nothing new enough or invented here to patent, so i guess you say then why keep it closely gaurded. Well ask yourself this, it there is no secrets or tricks why isnt Brad or anyone of us building the fastest work or ########.
> 
> There is no black magic,just time, trial, lots of error and those few that have a complete understanding of whats going on... for that they deserve the respect of privacy.



Have not seen any thing on this forum worthy of a patent. I have seen a few things that a privacy policy written on freaking napkin at McDonalds and signed in ketcup by both parties could have fixed. All a builder can do is buy time, buying time is free and can be quite profitable. There are lots of secrets and tricks and usually when I am dealing with a professional I have to sign a contract to see them. That has included in the past Nascar engines, fashion designs, investment procedures, medical equipment and procedure demo, wall paper designs, SW, HW, wood working tools, metal working tools, air plane seats, robots, hot dogs and my favorites locations and times. All these contracts were short quick reads that I agreed to and signed. Typically in less than a couple of minutes. 

Respect is earned and if you sell your privacy then it is gone.


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## Justsaws (Dec 5, 2009)

husq2100 said:


> my frustration comes from "how did was people get this screwed up" i wonder what our grand fathers would think about todays behaviour etc.
> 
> im not saying stick our heads in the sand and hope it will be alright, that would just let free rain to those stupid and crooked, but i certainly wont give into to it and support it by falling into the world they are creating



Cannot help you with that. My grand fathers always told me to get it in writing and to read what others have written before I do business with them. It was and is some of the best advice I ever received.


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## blsnelling (Dec 5, 2009)

Hey Dan, did you get to run it yet?


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## matt9923 (Dec 5, 2009)

Saws are looking good. 

If the person who did the work doesn't want it posted, it is your choice but I think most of us would have enough respect to not post. 

Brad apologized....

A lot of people have solid opinions on each side, i'm right in the middle and have respect for the builder trying to make a $. 

Even if there was a 100% detailed procedure on how to do it I doubt you would lose much business. The year's of experience and knowledge can't be expressed threw a few picture's and words. 

There's bad blood between some that will never go away, gives an interesting show but that's about it. I think everyone needs to sit down with a few drinks, maybe some of the #####ing will stop (maybe wee need a boxing match). Funny seeing grown men cry like girls about things said or happened years ago. 

Weird seeing people that have helped you arguing, you got respect for both sides and agree with both.


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## nanuk (Dec 5, 2009)

*thanks!*



OhioGregg said:


> Hey That makes the most sense of anything I heard on here in a long time!!! You must be new here.
> 
> 
> Gregg,



Yeah... been lurking for awhile... registered finally.

I was a closet addict! Suffer from CAD real bad, and was looking for a support group. :bang:

too bad I found AS, as you guys are enablers! 

thanks alot! 
heh.... I've already learned so much!


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## FATGUY (Dec 5, 2009)

matt9923 said:


> Saws are looking good.
> 
> If the person who did the work doesn't want it posted, it is your choice but I think most of us would have enough respect to not post.
> 
> ...



BINGO!!! set, point, match. it's up, it's up and it's gooooood, he shoots, he scores!!!!


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## THALL10326 (Dec 5, 2009)

I've been reading this thread and from what I can gather what has happened is a code of honor has been violated. I don't get into race saws and such but I do know there is a code among all the guys that their work is theirs. Its been that way for ages. Its almost like two real good friends. One comes by the others house and even though they are best friends the one coming by still knocks on the door instead of just walking in. Thats just the way it is.

I can relate with the man who built the carb and Brad as well but in a different setting.

Not long ago the Stihl feild man came by the shop. He just came by for a visit. He wittnessed me working on a saw with the customer looking over my shoulder. After the saw was fixed and the customer left he gave me a fit about it. He goes you should not do that. I go what. You shouldn't let customers look over your shoulder while repairing their equipment. I go why not. He goes because your giving away your knowledge and you had to pay money for it, sit in schools for it and work hard to get that knowledge. I go well the customer was happy since I fixed his saw on the spot. He rips me another one. He goes thats not the point, the point is your giving away your knowledge by allowing people to watch how you repair their units. This just doesn't happen, its not the way its done. I go well he paid for the repair. The rep goes yes but he didn't pay for the knowledge he got and will use to fix it himself nexttime. I go grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr and give up.

Here I thought I was doing the customer a great service fixing his unit on the spot. I didn't care if he looked on or not. I never thought about it the way the feild rep saw it and in a way he is right. Even so I still do repairs on the spot and if the customer is looking over my shoulder I don't mind. Its not like I'm doing something that millions of others can't do. In Simons case that doesn't apply because he is doing something many others can't do, its a specialty, a trick of the trade, yes a secret meant to stay secret even after its sold, mainly because he wants sell it again, its his living. 

This deal with Simon and Brad is alittle more personal because they are both selling their work. They both know the code. Brad is like me. Even though he knows the code he violated it out of joy of how well the saw turned out. Simon is like my Stihl feild rep, he beleives strongly in the code and not giving away the knowledge. Simon sold the knowledge to Brad, not the whole world, he abided by the code well known among builders, the same code Brad knew and will surely abide to from now on after this thread.

This thread could conclude if only one question was asked and I will ask it. Brad are you going to abide by the code from now on, I know the answer is yes for you don't want this kinda of headache again. That said this thread is pretty well done..


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## blsnelling (Dec 5, 2009)

Spoken as a wise gentleman Tom. What more can I say? I couldn't say it as well as you did. You really summed it up well. Thanks Tom!


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## mtngun (Dec 5, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> This was an inexpensive, yet valuable find. I'm sure more guys will be looking into making their 3120s fully adjustable, yet maintain all stock functionality.


I've been TRYING to follow this thread off and on because in the back of my mind I've thought about picking up a 3120 if the right one ever comes along for the right price, only I was put off by the non-adjustable carb. 

Now Brad's thread tells us about this option to have the carb modded and I'm all ears, but instead of hearing who-where-how much, we get page after page of bickering over whether Brad should have posted photos. IMHO Brad was doing this guy a big favor by giving him free advertising that could generate a lot of future business, and this guy comes along and shuts it down. 

I've lost interest.


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## blsnelling (Dec 5, 2009)

treeco said:


> ignore the noise, forget the bickering, buy a 3120 and send the carb to simon!



+1!


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## woodgrenade (Dec 5, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> I can relate with the man who built the carb and Brad as well but in a different setting.



If your rep only knew that you are a member on AS expelling your knowledge to the entire world on the internet!!


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## GASoline71 (Dec 5, 2009)

LMAO... I think I lost a brain cell or two after reading this.

So far... Brad and Jasha are the only 2 saw builders that I have ever heard of that don't have any drama behind anything they do...

Good on ya fellas... 

Gary


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## THALL10326 (Dec 5, 2009)

woodgrenade said:


> If your rep only knew that you are a member on AS expelling your knowledge to the entire world on the internet!!



Hell I don't share much cause I don't know much,


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## THALL10326 (Dec 5, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> It was great talking to you on the phone the other day Tom. That 460 is running good!
> 
> Thanks again!



Gotta love them 460's. Sweet saw. Its the all time favorite among arborists around here Dan. Glad you got that baby perking coffee again, see you can do it as well as me or anyone else,


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## blsnelling (Dec 6, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Gotta love them 460's. Sweet saw. Its the all time favorite among arborists around here Dan.



Definately my favorite 70-80cc saw as well.


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## aokpops (Dec 6, 2009)

let it scream . never liked the rich mix . get label the saw killer for this statement.no black spark plugs or oil running out of muffler


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## THALL10326 (Dec 6, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> Definately my favorite 70-80cc saw as well.



I know of no arborists in my area that doesn't have a 460. It seems to be their favorite saw as well. I have never gotten one single complaint about a 460, not one. The buyers really like that saw..


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## blsnelling (Dec 6, 2009)

What's the going price for a 460, with a 25" bar? I was given a price today of $789.


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## THALL10326 (Dec 6, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> What's the going price for a 460, with a 25" bar? I was given a price today of $789.



Thats a 100 bucks off list. Better get it. I priced one to a arborist last week at $800.00, sold...


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## matt9923 (Dec 6, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Hell I don't share much cause I don't know much,



Yup


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## MR4WD (Dec 6, 2009)

I'm not sure what has transpired in this thread... But, I plan on sending my 3120 carb to whoever it is in this thread that can port and tap one.

Apparently, somebody is tore up that somebody else posted pictures of this mod. Don't kid yourself. Not just everybody can mod a fixed high carb to have a tuning screw. I'm sure if the people that COULD mod it, probably would have already. It's such a small target audience, who cares what people see.

Perhaps even, a person would post pictures of a ported carb and somebody else would get pictures of that carb... Then another carb builder would see it and modify it in a better way. Everybody would prosper..


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## Gypo Logger (Dec 6, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> I know of no arborists in my area that doesn't have a 460. It seems to be their favorite saw as well. I have never gotten one single complaint about a 460, not one. The buyers really like that saw..



Cover me Thall, I'm goin in. The 046 was never a heavy hitter. The 044 and 066 were the state of the art, but the 372 and 385 brought music to the bush. The Shils are kinda clumbsy and gay as opposed to their Husky counterparts, excepting the 088.
Gypo


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## THALL10326 (Dec 6, 2009)

matt9923 said:


> Yup



I knew that, hey thanks to you I know more than I thought I did,:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


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## matt9923 (Dec 6, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> I knew that, hey thanks to you I know more than I thought I did,:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:



It's late, i couldn't think of anything more insulting. Glad I could help. 

Hey Gypo, Husky Sucks!


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## THALL10326 (Dec 6, 2009)

Yukonsawman said:


> Cover me Thall, I'm goin in. The 046 was never a heavy hitter. The 044 and 066 were the state of the art, but the 372 and 385 brought music to the bush. The Shils are kinda clumbsy and gay as opposed to their Husky counterparts, excepting the 088.
> Gypo



Hahaha, good one. Gypo you don't know this but I dig up alot of your old threads. I enjoy them, your a catbird and a half man. You was AS back in the day, no question about it. I don't understand why you decide to sit back these days, ya getting old or something?

Back to the saws in some areas them ole Huskies shine but in this area the ole southern boys prefer the Stihls. I hear up in NY Husky rules and thats good. Gotta keep them outfits competing so we all get some good saws,


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## THALL10326 (Dec 6, 2009)

matt9923 said:


> It's late, i couldn't think of anything more insulting. Glad I could help.
> 
> Hey Gypo, Husky Sucks!



Well I know more again because of you, dayumm I'm starting to really like you. So thats all ya got, well thats good, I'll be easy on ya. However Gypo will not, he's gonna kick your azz, where's my popcorn Besty, bring it in here,hahahaha


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## AUSSIE1 (Dec 6, 2009)

Yukonsawman said:


> Cover me Thall, I'm goin in. The 046 was never a heavy hitter. The 044 and 066 were the state of the art, but the 372 and 385 brought music to the bush. The Shils are kinda clumbsy and gay as opposed to their Husky counterparts, excepting the 088.
> Gypo



Oh yeah. 

460? Fairdinkum?


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## Gypo Logger (Dec 6, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Hahaha, good one. Gypo you don't know this but I dig up alot of your old threads. I enjoy them, your a catbird and a half man. You was AS back in the day, no question about it. I don't understand why you decide to sit back these days, ya getting old or something?
> 
> Back to the saws in some areas them ole Huskies shine but in this area the ole southern boys prefer the Stihls. I hear up in NY Husky rules and thats good. Gotta keep them outfits competing so we all get some good saws,


 Hi Thall, that was a good comeback. I'm not really getting old, I just don't have the timber I use to have, even though it's been burned over and grown again here 100 years later. As long as I can knock the ####e out of 60 cords a year, then I guess I'm earning my keep. or maybe not.
John


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## THALL10326 (Dec 6, 2009)

Yukonsawman said:


> Hi Thall, that was a good comeback. I'm not really getting old, I just don't have the timber I use to have, even though it's been burned over and grown again here 100 years later. As long as I can knock the ####e out of 60 cords a year, then I guess I'm earning my keep. or maybe not.
> John



Well hell from what all I read you probably done cut more timber than any man walking. That said I think its time you took it easy. What was that song you was singing in that vid, If I Were The King Of The Forest, something like that, funniest dayumm vid ever made, good stuff man,

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/wetw8RQGJH0&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/wetw8RQGJH0&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


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## Gypo Logger (Dec 6, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Well hell from what all I read you probably done cut more timber than any man walking. That said I think its time you took it easy. What was that song you was singing in that vid, If I Were The King Of The Forest, something like that, funniest dayumm vid ever made, good stuff man,
> 
> <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/wetw8RQGJH0&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/wetw8RQGJH0&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


 Good stuff Thall, that vid was over the top stupid and thanks for embarrising me.
Gypo


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## THALL10326 (Dec 6, 2009)

Yukonsawman said:


> Good stuff Thall, that vid was over the top stupid and thanks for embarrising me.
> Gypo



No way, that vid is a classic man, long live the king of the forest, brings life in this place, good stuff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## parrisw (Dec 6, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Huskies shine but in this area the ole southern boys prefer the Stihls.



Ya, but you know that the ole southern boys are queer as hell though.


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## flimflam (Dec 6, 2009)

That field rep of yours is right. Once you start doing work infront of customers and they are eye balling you they will start to question the bills. They think cause you done somethin in 15 minutes the bill should be less cause they done seen what you did. What they fail to realize is that they are paying for the expertise. Lets see them try troubleshooting the machine then repairing it within 15 minutes. And thats what the bill is for, the knowledge that they aint got. Plus they will try to learn from it and do it on their own taking away business from ya. Its all good to do on the spot work but probably better to have them wait outside the shop area while you do the repairs. At our shop when people try to shoot the schit and watch us work, they get told to get out by the boss lady. Some of em will get offended cause we all know eachother but she just tells em hey its business.


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## Gypo Logger (Dec 6, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> No way, that vid is a classic man, long live the king of the forest, brings life in this place, good stuff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


 My GF says I gotta go to bed and I've talked about saws enough for tonight.
Should I do the do, or should I stay up a lil bit longer?
see you later fellas, I'm goin in, cover me.
John


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## THALL10326 (Dec 6, 2009)

parrisw said:


> Ya, but you know that the ole southern boys are queer as hell though.



You bring that little fat azz of yours on down here, you will be going home with a cork in it walking bow legged, saying to yourself I've been nailed where no man has gone before,ahahahahahaha


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## parrisw (Dec 6, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> You bring that little fat azz of yours on down here, you will be going home with a cork in it walking bow legged, saying to yourself I've been nailed where no man has gone before,ahahahahahaha



ha ha. That's what I'm afraid of. I think I'll put the cork in before going down there though.


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## THALL10326 (Dec 6, 2009)

parrisw said:


> ha ha. That's what I'm afraid of. I think I'll put the cork in before going down there though.



The last thing you will hear from us southern boys is you come back now ya hear, come on back anytime Polly, LOLOLOLOL


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## THALL10326 (Dec 6, 2009)

flimflam said:


> That field rep of yours is right. Once you start doing work infront of customers and they are eye balling you they will start to question the bills. They think cause you done somethin in 15 minutes the bill should be less cause they done seen what you did. What they fail to realize is that they are paying for the expertise. Lets see them try troubleshooting the machine then repairing it within 15 minutes. And thats what the bill is for, the knowledge that they aint got. Plus they will try to learn from it and do it on their own taking away business from ya. Its all good to do on the spot work but probably better to have them wait outside the shop area while you do the repairs. At our shop when people try to shoot the schit and watch us work, they get told to get out by the boss lady. Some of em will get offended cause we all know eachother but she just tells em hey its business.




I guess your right. He gave me hell for it. I finally gave up arguing with him, he wasn't about to change his mind for sure...


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## parrisw (Dec 6, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> The last thing you will hear from us southern boys is you come back now ya hear, come on back anytime Polly, LOLOLOLOL



LOL. ya know they say that your not gay if your on top. I like to keep it that way. LOL ha ha


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## THALL10326 (Dec 6, 2009)

parrisw said:


> LOL. ya know they say that your not gay if your on top. I like to keep it that way. LOL ha ha



Good one, check your rep, ya hear,hehe


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## parrisw (Dec 6, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Good one, check your rep, ya hear,hehe



ha ha. thanks buddy. I cant return the favor yet, I'm all out.


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## mowoodchopper (Dec 6, 2009)

056 kid said:


> Jesus christ, you really think alot of yourself, like alot of others around here.
> 
> Sure I do too but i pride myself in cutting trees, not grinding on saws & acting like they are top fuel drag cars with secret pics of the port work & engine mapping. Then keeping everything a big secret like its what i just said...
> 
> Everyone just #### and be nice for Santa...



 Any good machinist could make the mod!! In fact I know a couple within 10 miles that would gladly do it! IMHO if someone is that worried about who sees their work ,they better not do it for the public for a business!
And another thing all the bs about brad posting the pic! Who gives a %%%%
it was free advertising for the guys business, its hard to make a living at doing a service for someone you dont want anyone to find out about! Unless your call girl, or drug dealer, heck even they advertise though!!!


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## husq2100 (Dec 6, 2009)

mowoodchopper said:


> :
> And another thing all the bs about brad posting the pic! Who gives a %%%%
> it was free advertising for the guys business, its hard to make a living at doing a service for someone you dont want anyone to find out about! Unless your call girl, or drug dealer, heck even they advertise though!!!



Not true. Have a mate, recently retired. He had a engineering business making axles, gears, diff locks, portal drop boxes, rear steer conversions etc. He was in business for 40+ years, never had a website, never posted on the internet, and only had a small add in the local yellow pages. He had contracts with different countries for their milatary vehicles and exported world wide. If you are very good at what you do you don't need to advertise, word of mouth well get you their. I knew about Simon having never seen an add or website of his.

It has been stated that there was nothing wrong done or no unwrittern rule. If that were true, this thread wouldn't have been taken in this direction. Simon would not have asked to have the pics removed and guys wouldn't have promted that to begin with. As has been stated, Brad had been down this path before and didn't learn his lesson, maybe thats why more have come out and said something this time. 

As far as contracts go, where do you stop? do you take a contract out when you go to the corner shop to buy milk.......

I'm out


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## matt9923 (Dec 6, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> I guess your right. He gave me hell for it. I finally gave up arguing with him, he wasn't about to change his mind for sure...



The ole' Champ gave up? Hmm....oke:


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## blsnelling (Dec 6, 2009)

husq2100 said:


> It has been stated that there was nothing wrong done or no unwrittern rule. If that were true, this thread wouldn't have been taken in this direction. *Simon would not have asked to have the pics removed* and guys wouldn't have promted that to begin with. As has been stated, Brad had been down this path before and didn't learn his lesson, maybe thats why more have come out and said something this time.
> 
> I'm out



One little correction there. I pulled the pics *before *Simon ever saw them. They were only up a few minutes.


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## THALL10326 (Dec 6, 2009)

matt9923 said:


> The ole' Champ gave up? Hmm....oke:



Yeah I gave up arguing with him. I didn't give up doing repairs while customers look over my shoulder though. I just don't do that whenever he's around. Why, I may have open a can of whip azz on him and tell him he's a visitor and I'm the boss of my lil ole bench. He's probably get mad and wanna fist fight and I'd have to pay for his broken jaw, two black eyes, teeth, ears ripped off, broken ankle, ball bag kicked out, his wife would divorce him. His kids wouldn't reconize him. It be a terrible thing. So I just get around all that by not doing some things in his presence. Makes me a nice guy don't it,
:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


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## 67 Mustang (Dec 6, 2009)

THALL10326 said:


> Yeah I gave up arguing with him. I didn't give up doing repairs while customers look over my shoulder though. I just don't do that whenever he's around. Why, I may have open a can of whip azz on him and tell him he's a visitor and I'm the boss of my lil ole bench. He's probably get mad and wanna fist fight and I'd have to pay for his broken jaw, two black eyes, teeth, ears ripped off, broken ankle, ball bag kicked out, his wife would divorce him. His kids wouldn't reconize him. It be a terrible thing. So I just get around all that by not doing some things in his presence. Makes me a nice guy don't it,
> :hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:



Wow man! A real "*Have Wrench Will Trave*l". Are you for hire? Probably got a silhouette of a Husky printed on your card, huh? LOL


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## THALL10326 (Dec 6, 2009)

67 Mustang said:


> Wow man! A real "*Have Wrench Will Trave*l". Are you for hire? Probably got a silhouette of a Husky printed on your card, huh? LOL



LOLOLOL. Well I must admit my favorite method is gas can and torch, LOLOL


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## mowoodchopper (Dec 6, 2009)

husq2100 said:


> Not true. Have a mate, recently retired. He had a engineering business making axles, gears, diff locks, portal drop boxes, rear steer conversions etc. He was in business for 40+ years, never had a website, never posted on the internet, and only had a small add in the local yellow pages. He had contracts with different countries for their milatary vehicles and exported world wide. If you are very good at what you do you don't need to advertise, word of mouth well get you their. I knew about Simon having never seen an add or website of his.
> 
> It has been stated that there was nothing wrong done or no unwrittern rule. If that were true, this thread wouldn't have been taken in this direction. Simon would not have asked to have the pics removed and guys wouldn't have promted that to begin with. As has been stated, Brad had been down this path before and didn't learn his lesson, maybe thats why more have come out and said something this time.
> 
> ...



I see your point. But I still stick to my post! If he is so worried about it dont do it for customers. And like I said any machinist can do it , he didn't build a secret weapon!


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## husq2100 (Dec 6, 2009)

blsnelling said:


> One little correction there. I pulled the pics *before *Simon ever saw them. They were only up a few minutes.



but you were promted by another member here to do so. Its irrelevant whether Simon saw them or not, unless all you care about was being caught by him..........

its all here in black and white, if anyone cares to read the hole post.

and yes, now im done


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## matt9923 (Dec 6, 2009)

husq2100 said:


> but you were promted by another member here to do so. Its irrelevant whether Simon saw them or not, unless all you care about was being caught by him..........
> 
> its all here in black and white, if anyone cares to read the hole post.
> 
> and yes, now im done



Someone said something about it and he removed them? 

What do you want him to do?


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## catman963 (Dec 6, 2009)

GASoline71 said:


> LMAO... I think I lost a brain cell or two after reading this.
> Gary





You got THAT right Gary!!! :crazy1: I just read through the whole thread 


It's a shame this is how it went down..... :computer2:


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## GASoline71 (Dec 6, 2009)

catman963 said:


> You got THAT right Gary!!! :crazy1: I just read through the whole thread
> 
> 
> It's a shame this is how it went down..... :computer2:



Yep... man... now that I have all the "top secret" ways to do carbs, and machine work... I'm gonna make a million gettin' them all patented. 

Pretty friggin' funny if ya ask me... 

Oh the drama! (...and I'm not referring to Brad either...)

Gary


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## blsnelling (Dec 6, 2009)

husq2100 said:


> but you were promted by another member here to do so. Its irrelevant whether Simon saw them or not, unless all you care about was being caught by him..........
> 
> its all here in black and white, if anyone cares to read the hole post.
> 
> and yes, now im done



Give me a frikkin break! Puuuulease! You expect any man to be perfect? Someone pointed it out, I saw the error of my ways, I made the appropriate correction. When you think you can meet the same level of perfection that you're requesting of others, we'll put you up on a pedestal. Some of you guys are just plain pathetic. The bottom line is that you're looking for something to grumble about. I place myself in a vulnerable position by posting so much. Guys like you make my life miserable at times. But I refuse to let it get the best of me. I, and most other, know my intentions are honest. There are others that have no interest at all in what my intentions are. All they care is gettin a swing or two in while the fight is on. Get a life! Thank goodness you're done. You're sure not contributing to the forum.


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## GASoline71 (Dec 6, 2009)

Good post Brad... chin up, move forward, and don't back down.

Half the drama that comes from the "builders" also comes from their cheerleaders... Rah Rah!!!

You did nothing wrong.

Gary


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## blsnelling (Dec 6, 2009)

GASoline71 said:


> Good post Brad... chin up, move forward, and don't back down.
> 
> Half the drama that comes from the "builders" also comes from their cheerleaders... Rah Rah!!!
> 
> ...



Thanks Gary:notrolls2::deadhorse:


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## 67 Mustang (Dec 7, 2009)

GASoline71 said:


> Good post Brad... chin up, move forward, and don't back down.
> 
> Half the drama that comes from the "builders" also comes from their cheerleaders... Rah Rah!!!
> 
> ...



Well said, Gary!


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## youngs24 (Dec 7, 2009)

well im not takeing up FOR NO ONE HERE by saying this that carb is no secrect yeah picture's where up for a while but hell all of yall that want a carb with high a low screws just contact a kart shop and get you a wg-3 for a kt 100 then use just the main carb body and change the other components like throttle shafts ect. so did brad show any secrets i dont think so hell for 25.00 dollars yall all know yall self that it cant be much to it for that price later troy


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## stinkbait (Dec 7, 2009)

I think that this has been blown way out of proportion. I just want to see some cutting videos.


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## blsnelling (Dec 7, 2009)

stinkbait said:


> I think that this has been blown way out of proportion. I just want to see some cutting videos.



How'd it go yesterday, Dan?


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## blsnelling (Dec 7, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> I still haven't fired 'er up!
> 
> 
> Maybe later today.



No problem. We're all just anxious to see it in action


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## blsnelling (Dec 20, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> Hey Brad I made about 12 cuts with our 3120 yesterday afternoon. I'm using a 36 inch bar and 404 full skip chain.
> 
> It sure runs well!
> 
> Thanks!



Where's the vadideo?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## blsnelling (Dec 20, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> Sorry not video recorder and the odds of the wife taking photos are slim to none!



You do realize that you're in serious violation of the rules, don't you? Well, at least it's running good for you.


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## capeferrelo (Dec 31, 2009)

Hey all, a question about the 3210...anyone have the part number for the muffler heat shield? Didn't see one on Bailey's website, or, come to think of it, in the service manual breakout...did it come with one originally?


Also, I emailed Bertrand, and should be shipping my carb off soon for some work. Glad to hear that those who have are happy with the results.

Should have the saw cleaned, and the new stuff it needs in place, in a couple weeks. Will post some pics, and maybe a video.

Steve


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## Taxmantoo (Jan 1, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> I'm not sure if I'm allowed to mention them or not. However, this is a great resource for guys looking for an adjustable carb that's otherwise not available. I sent it to Bertrand Hotsaws in CA. I think they do work for the Stihl Timbersport guys. From what I've been told, they're top notch. I'm not on the racing scene, so I'm only going by reference. They only charged $25 + return shipping.



This is probably the important thing that Brad did here, free advertising for Simon, assuming that Simon wants the work. 



matt9923 said:


> Even if there was a 100% detailed procedure on how to do it I doubt you would lose much business.



Indeed. If somebody who's already done the measurements and set up a jig will do the job for $25, why would anybody mess with trying to duplicate his work, unless he's competing against Simon at the races and Simon won't make one for him? 



THALL10326 said:


> I've been reading this thread and from what I can gather what has happened is a code of honor has been violated. I don't get into race saws and such but I do know there is a code among all the guys that their work is theirs.



I think in this thread, the work/play saw world clashed with the race saw world. When you go to a race, you treasure and guard every advantage over the other guy. When you go to a GTG or work in the woods, it doesn't matter. 



MR4WD said:


> Not just everybody can mod a fixed high carb to have a tuning screw. I'm sure if the people that COULD mod it, probably would have already.



That would be my guess on this particular trick, assuming it's just a matter of making the original jet adjustable. (if Simon relocated the jet, that would be more of a trade secret) It's probably rather obvious what needs to be done, and the real trick would be to precisely locate the threads for the needle, which would probably cost you one carb body and some time to find out where to bore it.


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## boo (Mar 8, 2010)

It's not like he posted full detail of how to.
Could be like telling people that hire me for big tight removals that they can't watch me rig their tree down.

On the other hand, I have had other tree services call me to do work for them because they did not know how to do it.
Should I not?


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## gink595 (Mar 8, 2010)

I wonder if we can get another 20 pages out of this one:deadhorse:


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## Wildman1024 (Mar 8, 2010)

gink595 said:


> I wonder if we can get another 20 pages out of this one:deadhorse:




LOL I hope not! This was a good thread to see die when it did.


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## boo (Mar 8, 2010)

I'm sorry to intrude... 
but it was never made clear if it was worth it maybe being known as "the guy that really knew what he was doing" or "other guy"(that lost big money)


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## Nitroman (Mar 8, 2010)

Yes it was worth it, no one lost any money.


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## 056 kid (Mar 8, 2010)

What was this thread about? A carb and a screw?


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## capeferrelo (Apr 11, 2010)

Got the carb back from Simon, and with the WG3 high speed screw it looks almost stock...the new screw has a smaller head end than the stock screws, but otherwise it looks like it always belonged there. The great thing is that with no more than a little filing with an old chain file the filter plate fits right on...no cutting, welding, JB weld...just need to open the access holes on the cover and get it together and fired up.


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