# My Business Setup Opinions: SERIOUS INQUIRES PLZ



## beaver316

OBJECTIVE: 
What changes or recommendations would yall recommend with how my business is ran?
Considering how things are being ran, what advice do you guys have? Am i limiting my success/potential by sub-contracting
What would yall do differently.

MYSELF
31 married(8yr) w/ 2boys (wife is 29, gorgeous, boys are 1 & 5)
wife has great job and benefits
previous job was not bad (cleared $500/week, benefits, 401K, office job) but I always wanted to be self-employed and make it.

GENERAL BACKGROUND
I sub-contract for tree company that does $800-$1MIL sales
(2 owners are friends i've known for +10yrs.) 
Both owners have been in tree business all their lives and are very experienced in all facets of tree work ( field, sales, office )

THE COMPANY
2 owners, 1 office lady, 1 additional salesman (including the owners)
They out-source all work and are pretty much a marketing co (for the exception of very large jobs/contracts) 
They have 3 crews full-time and I am there priority 1 crew (get work sched. 1st b4 other crews)
We do approx. $2K in production daily. I get 55% off job (if I sell, I get additional 10%) 
I cover all operating expenses, etc for my business from that %
Daily gross income ranges $200-500/day
I have an exclusive contract w/ them and work only for them. All jobs I sell on the side I can not keep to myself due to me getting 1st priority work & the 'good jobs'
I have been doing this full-time with them for 2 years.

MY COMPANY / EQUIPMENT
2008 F250
24" goose-neck trailer, 4-foot high sides & 20" long w/ additional 4" in front for equipment or whatever
All material is loaded by hand

PREDICAMENT
I am restrained to upgrade any heavy equipment (chippers, trucks, etc,) I believe due to financially
I would like to get a 1-ton truck or chipper or other heavy machinery
90% of our work is residential, so I don't need a bobcat or machinery to move material from job-site to street for loading

MY CREW
4 full-time guys (foreman, climber, 2 groundies) all have been with me from beginning and very experienced, work very well together
1 additional average climber is now working with the crew and we'll see how he does
We meet at shop @ 7:30am, get to 1st job 8-8:30am and leave last job usually 5-6:30pm

PAYROLL-DAILY
Main Climber 170 
Foreman 150
2 Ground 110/each

Additional climber 125

YES THATS A #### TON OF PAYROLL FOR MY %%'S

MY GOAL
Become % partner in company
or find another source of income since the crew is self-sustaining.

END NOTE
Thanks to all of yall that have taken the time in reading this. There are surely more details that haven't been included, but I will answer.
I spent last 2 nights reading thru this website and enjoy learning how others do their work outside of 'my bubble'
I've always trolled on here, but never posted anything like this. I think (from reader's views) it will be interesting to see where this thread goes

I expect negative comments, but I respect everyone's opinion.



-Justin-


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## beaver316

Del_ said:


> What was the question?



Sorry, probably ended up being rambled thoughts

OBJECTIVE: 
What changes or recommendations would yall recommend with how my business is ran?
Considering how things are being ran, what advice do you guys have? Am i limiting my success/potential by sub-contracting
What would yall do differently and what's my next step to make more money in your opinion.


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## z71mike

I have some ideas. Phone is too small to type it all. I'll get on my computer tonight when I get home.


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## beaver316

z71mike said:


> I have some ideas. Phone is too small to type it all. I'll get on my computer tonight when I get home.



Any criticism (good/bad) is welcomed.
A pic of the wife for good faith
View attachment 300317


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## AU_K2500

beaver316 said:


> Sorry, probably ended up being rambled thoughts
> 
> OBJECTIVE:
> What changes or recommendations would yall recommend with how my business is ran?
> Considering how things are being ran, what advice do you guys have? Am i limiting my success/potential by sub-contracting
> What would yall do differently and what's my next step to make more money in your opinion.



For you equipment have you considered Altec? 

they have nice follow up trucks, and bucket trucks used from Altec Nueco. 

I would continue to do what your doing, Improve your equipment and keep the best crew you can. your work will continue to speak for itself.


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## beaver316

AU_K2500 said:


> For you equipment have you considered Altec?
> 
> they have nice follow up trucks, and bucket trucks used from Altec Nueco.
> 
> I would continue to do what your doing, Improve your equipment and keep the best crew you can. your work will continue to speak for itself.



The heavy equipment I would like to get would be chipper, 1-ton truck, small bobcat (last purchase I would make out of the 3).

I'm meeting with one of the owners Mon to discuss what I can do to get more % of job.
I feel that I should not burden myself with (financially) with 100% of these purchases.


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## AU_K2500

beaver316 said:


> The heavy equipment I would like to get would be chipper, 1-ton truck, small bobcat (last purchase I would make out of the 3).
> 
> I'm meeting with one of the owners Mon to discuss what I can do to get more % of job.
> I feel that I should not burden myself with (financially) with 100% of these purchases.



We've got some really nice chippers. Wide range of sizes, engines, and options. If you want I can send you or the owners literature. 

As for 1 ton trucks, I don't know if we have any chip trucks on 1 ton frames. I will look into it on Monday. 

You or the owners can feel free to contact me for any and all info you may want.


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## beaver316

You guys don't understand what the problem.
We're not looking to buy equipment tom. I want the company to pay me more or help pay for bigger equipment. 
The company subs out work to me at 55% of job regardless of what equip. I have.
As there #1 contractor I want to buy equip. that will make the jobs go faster, more efficient, and easier on my employees backs


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## z71mike

beaver316 said:


> You guys don't understand what the problem.
> We're not looking to buy equipment tom. I want the company to pay me more or help pay for bigger equipment.
> The company subs out work to me at 55% of job regardless of what equip. I have.
> As there #1 contractor I want to buy equip. that will make the jobs go faster, more efficient, and easier on my employees backs



OK......I have a couple questions. I'm crunching some numbers.

To start, I know what you're going through......kinda. I've written up proposals to convince Congress to invest taxpayer dollars in us to fund improvements to equipment we deploy to theater. Talk about an impossible task. The key is 'convincing'.

My first thought, to get big-boss-man to sign on for any % of an equipment purchase, you're obviously gonna hafta convince him why he should invest and why it would be a good idea to do so. Right now, he's making 45% of $2000 per day, $900. If you had the new equipment tomorrow, what could you pull per day? An extra 25%? 50%?

Start there. With that new number, I can start moving through a spreadsheet.

(Awesome pics, btw. You're a lucky man, brother!)


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## treecutterjr

you buy better/bigger equipment: you want bigger cut

I don't know how much of a friend you are with the owners but strictly speaking from a business perspective, I doubt they care. 

IF you get bigger/ better equipment and you become more efficient, then you profit more (in the long run).

It doesn't sound like the guys you are subbing for are interested in taking any risks or else they wouldn't be subbing out everything.


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## z71mike

treecutterjr said:


> you buy better/bigger equipment: you want bigger cut
> 
> I don't know how much of a friend you are with the owners but strictly speaking from a business perspective, I doubt they care.
> 
> IF you get bigger/ better equipment and you become more efficient, then you profit more (in the long run).
> 
> It doesn't sound like the guys you are subbing for are interested in taking any risks or else they wouldn't be subbing out everything.



Conversely, since the owners don't DO work, they focus on building the brand name. When using subs, you take a high risk that a crew may screw up and defile the name you work so hard to build. For that reason, the owners may be inclined to invest in better quality equipment that reduces the crew's risk of screwing something up.


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## treecutterjr

z71mike said:


> Conversely, since the owners don't DO work, they focus on building the brand name. When using subs, you take a high risk that a crew may screw up and defile the name you work so hard to build. For that reason, the owners may be inclined to invest in better quality equipment that reduces the crew's risk of screwing something up.




don't take this the wrong way, but if they are a 800k to 1M a year tree service. and have 3 different subs AND their #1 sub is a truck and trailer guy then they aren't interested in investing in more equipment because they clearly have the financial capability. 

I'm not saying anything against anyone using a truck and trailer, but that is evidently their business plan. 

also, if SOMETHING were to happen and they decide to part ways, then the equipment ownership would cause a problem. 

Further more, I DON;T know how consistent the work they are providing is( do they keep you working every day/ all the time?) but you would probably be able to make more on your own. If you are carrying all the cost of running a tree service: payroll, fuel, insurance, tools and making it on basically HALF of a tree job. you could , in theory, go out and get the same jobs and have the same overhead and still make more money.

AND you would only need hALF THE jobs because on 5 $1000 JOBS YOU make $2500 subbing. with 2 $1000 jobs and a $500 you would make the same money. 

AND I definitely wouldn't like having to cut them in on jobs you pick up on your own.

JUST my 2 cents.


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## z71mike

treecutterjr said:


> don't take this the wrong way, but if they are a 800k to 1M a year tree service. and have 3 different subs AND their #1 sub is a truck and trailer guy then they aren't interested in investing in more equipment because they clearly have the financial capability.
> 
> I'm not saying anything against anyone using a truck and trailer, but that is evidently their business plan.
> 
> also, if SOMETHING were to happen and they decide to part ways, then the equipment ownership would cause a problem.
> 
> Further more, I DON;T know how consistent the work they are providing is( do they keep you working every day/ all the time?) but you would probably be able to make more on your own. If you are carrying all the cost of running a tree service: payroll, fuel, insurance, tools and making it on basically HALF of a tree job. you could , in theory, go out and get the same jobs and have the same overhead and still make more money.
> 
> AND you would only need hALF THE jobs because on 5 $1000 JOBS YOU make $2500 subbing. with 2 $1000 jobs and a $500 you would make the same money.
> 
> AND I definitely wouldn't like having to cut them in on jobs you pick up on your own.
> 
> JUST my 2 cents.



I see what you're saying. Makes sense in all but one instance. The county I grew up in was run by 'XYZ' Tree Service (I'll keep their name anonymous). There were some smaller outfits coming in and out sometimes, but couldn't stay afloat in the tri-county area with XYZ around. Everyone used them. They had most of the municipal contracts in the area too. If this is the case here, our buddy Beaver would hafta leave the area to get any work. Hopefully that's not the case in his area.


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## Grouchy old man

> I have an exclusive contract w/ them and work only for them. All jobs I sell on the side I can not keep to myself



I question whether you are even a subcontractor. Sounds like you and your guys would be classified as their employees according to the IRS in which case they should be paying for insurance, doing withholding and payroll and giving out W2s at the end of the year, not a 1099.


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## z71mike

beaver316 said:


> I will respond to your input later cuz I'm driving.
> Great points from everyone
> Let me throw y'all a bone



I now know why you have so many kids. Good lord. I miss them Houston girls. Ten years ago, Sam's Boat was like a friggin cattle auction.


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## B Harrison

I am unable to remember what I was going to say after that last one. 



Thinking clearly again.

Looks like $540 payroll and you say 200-500 gross, surely your not going in the hole $40+ each day. Can we asume that your netting $200-500 daily after you pay employees and for your equipment?


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## beaver316

B Harrison said:


> I am unable to remember what I was going to say after that last one.
> 
> 
> 
> Thinking clearly again.
> 
> Looks like $540 payroll and you say 200-500 gross, surely your not going in the hole $40+ each day. Can we asume that your netting $200-500 daily after you pay employees and for your equipment?



$200-500 is clear money after expenses.
Biggest variable in my daily cost are fuel & dumps.


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## beaver316

Grouchy old man said:


> I question whether you are even a subcontractor. Sounds like you and your guys would be classified as their employees according to the IRS in which case they should be paying for insurance, doing withholding and payroll and giving out W2s at the end of the year, not a 1099.



Technically I think you're right. That's the way it's setup. We all know (business owners) how hard it is to turn a profit with all the money that needs to be withheld for taxes


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## beaver316

Happy Father's Day
View attachment 300559


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## beaver316

treecutterjr said:


> you buy better/bigger equipment: you want bigger cut
> 
> I don't know how much of a friend you are with the owners but strictly speaking from a business perspective, I doubt they care.
> 
> IF you get bigger/ better equipment and you become more efficient, then you profit more (in the long run).
> 
> It doesn't sound like the guys you are subbing for are interested in taking any risks or else they wouldn't be subbing out everything.



Both owners were my groomsmen
I agree if I got equipment to work more efficiently, it would increase amount of production, but I'm still capped % wise


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## Grouchy old man

beaver316 said:


> Technically I think you're right. That's the way it's setup. We all know (business owners) how hard it is to turn a profit with all the money that needs to be withheld for taxes



Well, that's not really true. If you have employees you take withholding. If you contract out you don't have withholding but you pay more for the work. 

Looks like to me that if you were allowed to do other work on your own it would satisfy the sub-contractor requirement, put more money in your pocket and possibly solve your problem.


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## z71mike

Grouchy old man said:


> Well, that's not really true. If you have employees you take withholding. If you contract out you don't have withholding but you pay more for the work.
> 
> Looks like to me that if you were allowed to do other work on your own it would satisfy the sub-contractor requirement, put more money in your pocket and possibly solve your problem.



I'm with the old man on that one. That might be the only recourse, while maintaining the relationship with your groomsmen.


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## B Harrison

Grouchy old man said:


> Well, that's not really true. If you have employees you take withholding. If you contract out you don't have withholding but you pay more for the work.
> 
> Looks like to me that if you were allowed to do other work on your own it would satisfy the sub-contractor requirement, put more money in your pocket and possibly solve your problem.



I like this, but to be honest with you, if your clearing 200-500 a day and you work 5 days a week, with the equipment you have, your not doing too bad. I would take some of that money and buy something, even if it was something that allowed you to expand or get another crew moving. You are on the right track with wanting more of the business, but with the situation you have being exclusive to them your in a bind leverage wise.


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## treecutterjr

Yeah, I would lose the exclusivity deal as well. I might not even tell them. But thats where you are losing out. If you could do your own thing and still contract with them that would be the best deal for you. in my opinion.


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## RAG66

First off, if your good buddies with your company owners or not doesn't matter. Goodwill aside they will not slit their throat to help you advance your company. DO NOT get into their company for anything more than your paycheck. It would be as if you were in a partnership, the only ship that will not sail is a patnership! If your going to sub for them get your cut and be dependable to them, it is your obligation to work if they hire you. If your going to build your business do it too, as you can afford to, then go it on your own. I can't say it enough "KEEP BUSINESS BUSINESS"! If you are running under your own insurance when you work for them stop unless they will kick in for that in addition to your cut and bonuses. This is a high liability industry and you need to think of your home and family. My final suggestion do not advertise your wife, hot or not, it is degrading to your woman! Some day she will thank you for privacy.


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## z71mike

RAG66 said:


> My final suggestion do not advertise your wife, hot or not, it is degrading to your woman! Some day she will thank you for privacy.



Ahhhhh. You've never heard of The Chive, my friend. It's a different ballgame nowadays.


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## beaver316

z71mike said:


> Ahhhhh. You've never heard of The Chive, my friend. It's a different ballgame nowadays.



I put chives on my baked potato.
I don't care if she's on the web.


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## ChoppyChoppy

$500/week cleared is good money in Texas? I have a summer hire (high school kid) and I'm paying him about that.


I think you need to start off small, one man operation until you have built some equity into the business. The first few years are rough, have to spend lots of money to make money, but you need to be really carefull!

I setup a $100k loan for starting up and it took just about all of it.

What's the deal with the photos? I'm glad your happy with your marriage and she is pretty, but it has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Not to mention you are treating her like she is a piece of property or something. "mine is better than yours"


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## z71mike

Jeeeez. I show off my saws and trucks cause I think they look good. 

Women are God's artwork. And it's Beav's woman. His choice. 

Thx Beav! Now go search The Chive.


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## beaver316

I spoke with one of the owners for a little while the other day. He told they do not want to invest $$ into my equipment, but would give me a loan @ 5% if I needed it. The company would give me as much work as I could handle if I was to start a 2nd (trimming) crew to profit $200-300/day. 
That's ok with me, I just wanted them to understand if I make the investment to start a 2nd crew that it would not go to waste. They still have to give work to the other crews, but would certainly take care of me.
View attachment 301004


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## millbilly

Dude you are doing great! The guys you are getting work from are really doing an outstanding job. I wouldn't change a thing. I hope you can take the time to help me with some advice on how you do it. I 

I mean, I only have a bucket, granted its a smaller 60 foot working height, a chip truck that can only hold 16 cubic yards and a slightly under powered chipper something like 122 hp. Along with all the other things like, chainsaws, ropes, clean up tools the works. I have a forman with only 27 years experience and two ground guys.

With that being said I struggle to clear $1200 a day and truth be told, emphasis on *Truth *We have a lot of $900 days.

Then I read a post of a guy with an F250, a goose neck trailer with wooden sides does 2k a day asking for advice? You my friend are a hero to me, keep up the great work!


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## B Harrison

He didn't say he cleared 2k a day,

Beav if you can get them to work with you on a loan and have a second crew pay for your equipment then your probably on as good a track as you can be.


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## BCbound

If I'm clear on this. Your company does all the work and pays dump fees. They get 45% for a sales call and some marketing.

Keep it simple if you can. Ask for more %. If you are there #1 guy they want you doing the work. I think they are taking advantage of you. 

Even if you get an extra 5% that's an extra 500.00 a week(5 day week). And you have no extra cost or payments. If they are not interested in that ditch the exclusivity that's just taking money from you. 

I sub for a guy on occasion and he takes 25% of the job and pay for dump fees. He's just does sales.


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## BCbound

Don't take a loan from them if you can get it for the same rate from a bank. You will then be stuck with them. Keep it simple.

Plus the extra 5% that adds 500.00/week would more then cover your loan on a truck and chipper set up (used set up). Not to mention the reduced amount of trips to the dump which may save some fuel cost.


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## Grouchy old man

BCbound said:


> If I'm clear on this. Your company does all the work and pays dump fees. They get 45% for a sales call and some marketing.
> 
> Keep it simple if you can. Ask for more %. If you are there #1 guy they want you doing the work. I think they are taking advantage of you.
> 
> Even if you get an extra 5% that's an extra 500.00 a week(5 day week). And you have no extra cost or payments. If they are not interested in that ditch the exclusivity that's just taking money from you.
> 
> I sub for a guy on occasion and he takes 25% of the job and pay for dump fees. He's just does sales.



I agree that they are taking advantage of you. Unless they are so good that they have the whole area tied up they aren't worth 45%.


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## beaver316

BCbound said:


> Don't take a loan from them if you can get it for the same rate from a bank. You will then be stuck with them. Keep it simple.
> 
> Plus the extra 5% that adds 500.00/week would more then cover your loan on a truck and chipper set up (used set up). Not to mention the reduced amount of trips to the dump which may save some fuel cost.



I'd rather take a loan from the company at the same interest rate for the fact that they would be financially invested in me which would certainly guarantee me the good jobs and/or keep 2nd crew working. I don't want to make any quicky purchases, but we're just so fkn busy. You gotta cook while the grease is hot, but winter's coming and that's always a biatch. Guess I could always put up x-mas lights. NOT


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## beaver316

millbilly said:


> Dude you are doing great! The guys you are getting work from are really doing an outstanding job. I wouldn't change a thing. I hope you can take the time to help me with some advice on how you do it. I
> 
> I mean, I only have a bucket, granted its a smaller 60 foot working height, a chip truck that can only hold 16 cubic yards and a slightly under powered chipper something like 122 hp. Along with all the other things like, chainsaws, ropes, clean up tools the works. I have a forman with only 27 years experience and two ground guys.
> 
> With that being said I struggle to clear $1200 a day and truth be told, emphasis on *Truth *We have a lot of $900 days.
> 
> Then I read a post of a guy with an F250, a goose neck trailer with wooden sides does 2k a day asking for advice? You my friend are a hero to me, keep up the great work!



If I was making $2k a day, yall would have to call me Mr. Beaver.


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## beaver316

Grouchy old man said:


> I agree that they are taking advantage of you. Unless they are so good that they have the whole area tied up they aren't worth 45%.



There's no way to tie up all of houston. They aren't taking advantage of me, since that's the agreement we had from the beginning. I do see my %'s moving up as a crew or they are considering myself managing all of the production & get a smaller % of all work completed. I will talk with them tomorrow evening and let yall know.

Also, trying to get a pic of wife in underwear with either climbing saddle or stihl 660. Which would yall prefer


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## Grouchy old man

beaver316 said:


> They aren't taking advantage of me, since that's the agreement we had from the beginning.



Maybe it sounded like a good deal then but hindsight is 20/20. 

I've always had a thing for the 660.:msp_smile:


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## ChoppyChoppy

Some days I pull in 4-5k, but then I can go a week without making anything too. Pulling in and clearing are way different too. Out of 5k in sales, I might have 2k of profit.






beaver316 said:


> If I was making $2k a day, yall would have to call me Mr. Beaver.


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## beaver316

ValleyFirewood said:


> Some days I pull in 4-5k, but then I can go a week without making anything too. Pulling in and clearing are way different too. Out of 5k in sales, I might have 2k of profit.



I hear what you're saying. I appreciate all of y'all's input in the matter. Will post an update of conversation with owners tonight.


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## treemandan

Look, Beav, yer doing fine, relax, take a pill, calm down, stop getting worked up and stop trying to get us worked up before you spin out of orbit.


" stay on target"

Red Leader 1- circa 1981


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## beaver316

treemandan said:


> Look, Beav, yer doing fine, relax, take a pill, calm down, stop getting worked up and stop trying to get us worked up before you spin out of orbit.
> 
> 
> " stay on target"
> 
> Red Leader 1- circa 1981



Will update y'all later. Wife wants to go to dinner even though I got to work Tom, clean/sharpen saws, clean truck, replace bulbs in truck light...not enough time in the day lately
View attachment 301277


I started a new thread on pics of our work if y'all interested


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## treemandan

beaver316 said:


> Will update y'all later. Wife wants to go to dinner even though I got to work Tom, clean/sharpen saws, clean truck, replace bulbs in truck light...not enough time in the day lately
> View attachment 301277
> 
> 
> I started a new thread on pics of our work if y'all interested



Yeah well save it fer her then. Other than that I just see a young guy in an inexorable orbit.


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## beaver316

treemandan said:


> Yeah well save it fer her then. Other than that I just see a young guy in an inexorable orbit.



INEXORABLE
adj
not able to be moved by entreaty or persuasion
relentless

Had to look that up. I like it. A good flaw, in me, I suppose.


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## beaver316

SITUATION: WHAT WOULD YOU DO

my crew is crashing pole in front yard. Rope tied to top of pole and tied to truck for leverage. My foreman is in the truck and climber cuts. Limb breaks 4x4 section of concrete sidewalk.

Who's responsible for $500 damage. 
-both foreman and climber know what I'm going to do since we have had this conversation before.

Will post my decision later, but I would like to get opinions from y'all.


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## ChoppyChoppy

I don't know what crashing pole means but a 4x4 piece sidewalk doesn't cost $500 to replace.

If it's 6" thick that's only .25 yards, or about $30 of concrete. Maybe $100 in labor, $30 for some lumber for forms.


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## B Harrison

Yeah it will be $500, to match it will have to be poured from a truck, not a bag, around here a yard is $160, whether you need the whole thing or not, it will take a couple hours to get old out and a couple boards for new.....truck charge for concrete and delivery fee for small order.......$500 is a cheap fix. Then you have to stand there and wait for it to flash so you can broom it.

I would want my old concrete pressure washed to match the new 4x4.......

Its your fault(they work for you), you will have to pay for it, I would let it be a lesson learned and get back to work, 
bucket trucks will break 3" of concrete in a hurry if there loaded and its hollow underneath, you can guess how I know.


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## beaver316

The cost is not the issue. The issue is who pays for it. Me, foreman, climber, company I sub for, split-it between us? 
They cut the remaining 30 feet left from base of tree after de-limbing and removing top.
FYI concrete section was cut out and replaced and an epoxy over-lay was put over complete 30x4 feet section of walkway.


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## millbilly

I personally believe the homeowner should pay for it. They were the knuckle heads who either planted that tree near the sidewalk or had that sidewalk built near that tree, stupid home owners never think about the future.


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## beaver316

millbilly said:


> I personally believe the homeowner should pay for it. They were the knuckle heads who either planted that tree near the sidewalk or had that sidewalk built near that tree, stupid home owners never think about the future.



Thanks for replying, but that ain't gonna work


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## Grouchy old man

> The issue is who pays for it. Me, foreman, climber, company I sub for, split-it between us?



Your company (you). The company you sub for is going to say "have a nice day" and it is illegal to make your workers pay. Nothing says you can't take disiciplinary action against them or fire them though.


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## B Harrison

Actually the company you work for would be responsible if it were to go to court. They are the one billing the customer, I hadn't thought about the situation you are in when answering before, that's one of the good things about your situation. The work situation I mean.

Epoxy overlay sounds a bit extreme, but OK it would be feasable to pour the section out of a wheel borrow if that's the solution and might save money in the long run.


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## z71mike

Who pays the insurance? File a claim. That's why you have it.


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## beaver316

z71mike said:


> Who pays the insurance? File a claim. That's why you have it.



My deductible is $1k.


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## Grouchy old man

B Harrison said:


> Actually the company you work for would be responsible if it were to go to court. They are the one billing the customer, I hadn't thought about the situation you are in when answering before, that's one of the good things about your situation. The work situation I mean.



Well yes, but the company (or their insurance) is going to kick it right back to you. I disagree that it's one of the good things about your situation. As a sub you were required have your own insurance that names the company you work for as insured to protect their ass in situations like this. Only way this could work out is if you have no insurance.


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## treemandan

beaver316 said:


> The cost is not the issue. The issue is who pays for it. Me, foreman, climber, company I sub for, split-it between us?
> They cut the remaining 30 feet left from base of tree after de-limbing and removing top.
> FYI concrete section was cut out and replaced and an epoxy over-lay was put over complete 30x4 feet section of walkway.



I am still trying to figure out just what it is that you do there at your job. Alls I can tell is that you drive around with a big trailer. 

As an independent sub-contractor myself I will be damned if I am paying for someone else's screw up. 

I have been through this before too.


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## beaver316

treemandan said:


> I am still trying to figure out just what it is that you do there at your job. Alls I can tell is that you drive around with a big trailer.
> 
> As an independent sub-contractor myself I will be damned if I am paying for someone else's screw up.
> 
> I have been through this before too.



I run my crew. Normally I am out there with them, but I've been updating my quickbooks and other misc. 

I paid the $500 concrete fk up, but my guys will not get their monthly bonus and I don't pay for their lunch on fri for next 4 weeks. (I buy everyones lunch on fri)


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## beaver316

Sorry for no update. Will post by weekend. I'm knee deep in work. All is good.


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## beaver316

Watching tv next to the woman and resting.
I have a started a 2nd crew and will be paid 70%. It will be used for smaller jobs trim jobs and medium size & non-technical removals. It will be a three man crew, and myself, who currently have been working for me for 2 months and are hard workers and ok English. 

Would live to hear questions and/or feedback.


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## treesandsurf

This is a common issue. I'm not sure of all the details you posted with your situation, but what I heard for the most part seems to be a common theme. A lot of guys want to fulfill their dream of being their own boss and running their own business. This is pretty natural and praiseworthy in many ways. However, I constantly hear about guys trying to get in with minimal to no risk (little to no investment capital, unwillingness to gamble on their own success). 

It sounds like you are gripping for safety (your ties to another large company), swimming in the wake and feeding on the leftovers from another operation. That is fine but you will always be a bottom feeder in that situation. If you want to make something happen, then make it happen. You have to take a plunge sometime and yes there will be challenges and risk. If you don't REALLY want it, then stop messing around and be a regular employee and play it safe. Nothing wrong with that. If you REALLY do want it, then stop messing around and start your own setup and be independent. Can't be much clearer than that.... 

jp


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## beaver316

I HAVE BEEN SOO BUSY I COMPLETELY FORGOT ABOUT YOU GUYS

UPDATE:
I have started a 2nd crew. I just bought a 2013 f250xl for my main crew & i will be driving 2008 f250 lariat on the 2nd crew

Before I bought the truck, many things happened.

-didn't want to invest $$ in 2nd crew til i had a good deal
-the company was slammed with work & hired 3 retard crews (usually 2guys) that didn't know jack sh*t. The co. didn't want to lose jobs so they sub'd out other small jobs to these guys. There actions made the company realize how valuable I was and offered a new agreement.
I would manage my 2 crews ( 1 complete tree service crew ) ( 1 trimming crew )
I would also handle all problems in the field
I would run calls, on occasion, when needed
A few other minor details

There offer:
My % would still be the same for both crews
I get 3% of gross sales & paid every previous quarter.


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## z71mike

That's good to hear man. Nice job bettering your position. Rock on.


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## millbilly

Jeffreyy said:


> Well do not get into their organization, for anything more than your payroll check. It would be, as if you were in a collaboration the only deliver that will not, sail is a partnership.



What did he say?


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## Toddppm

He said , Hi, I'm a link spammer and will be back in a few days to activate the link in my signature, don't mind me.


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## beaver316

Been extremely busy, but I wanted to check in with y'all.
Everything has been running smooth. I am now able to see all the jobs available on my iPhone/iPad so I can do my own scheduling & choose my jobs. I'm so focused on work right now that my personal life is affected.
My wife & I argue a bit more (she's extremely busy with work too) 
We both bring our daily frustrations out on each other
We are trying to work it out.
That's it for now. Later ysll


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## joezilla11

beaver316 said:


> Been extremely busy, but I wanted to check in with y'all.
> Everything has been running smooth. I am now able to see all the jobs available on my iPhone/iPad so I can do my own scheduling & choose my jobs. I'm so focused on work right now that my personal life is affected.
> My wife & I argue a bit more (she's extremely busy with work too)
> We both bring our daily frustrations out on each other
> We are trying to work it out.
> That's it for now. Later ysll



just let her talk and get it out. 20 minutes later she'll be thanking you for listening and you wont even know what happened.


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## Photog95

Best way for you to put a bigger cut in your pocket is to get rid of one of your employees and do that persons work yourself. Maybe you are already doing this. I dont know cause all I have to go by is your confusing description of what the whole situation is.

I do see all the time where people try to escape the idea of going out and getting a real job where they actually have to do real physical work, so they start their own business and hire a bunch of people to do the work for them, all the while complaining that they work so hard and have no money cause of the cost of payroll, ins, taxes, ect....

I know personally a lady who started a business so she didn't have to do anything. Hired a couple people to do the actual work while she sat around and did nothing but complain that the cost of doing business was too much and she wasn't making enough money. Rather than get her own hands dirty by actually doing some work, she closed the business putting 2 people out of work.

Two years later this lady started another business as a partner with a second lady, and again didn't want to do anything but play "business person" sitting at a desk all day updating her Facebook status. They hired 6 people for this business. The place was making money hand over fist, but their constant shopping sprees and new cars for both of them practically bankrupted the business. Come to find out, that the company really wasn't making money hand over fist after all. All the money they were spending was money that they obviously overpaid themselves for doing nothing, as well as the money that was taken out of employees checks for income taxes or employers % on top of that they never sent a dime to the IRS, state, or anything. Never paid a dime for unemployment ins. That money all went right in the pocket, and yet still complained they didn't have any money. Had they only hired 4 people and got off their asses and did something, they wouldn't of had too much free time to go spend the tax payers money, and would have had 2 less people sucking payroll.

Again, this is just my assumption from the confusing description. If I am wrong please disregard and accept my deepest apology.


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## Tyler259

bump, how's everything going?


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## david1332

Best thread I've seen in a while!


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## jefflovstrom

david1332 said:


> Best thread I've seen in a while!



How about this one,, http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/boot-question.152481/#post-2529988
Jeff


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