# Carlton 4012 ?'s



## NCgrinder (Oct 6, 2009)

Anybody care to share their real world experience with a Carlton 4012 grinder? I've been told they will not pull out of a hole or across a pile of chips without anchoring the frt wheel with a T-bar driven in the ground. The sales rep was very vague when I asked why there was an extension feature on the frame. He tried to convince me it was to lengthen the wheelbase for stability on uneven ground. I have a Vermeer 252 and am looking into either replacing it or repowering with a 31-35 HP Kohler or Briggs Vanguard. I've always been pleased at how my 252 will pull out of ditches,up hills,across chip piles,etc.I've even been able to nudge large trunk sections out of my way with the 252. The Carlton 4012 is also a bit larger & heavier ,which also concerns me. I specialize in confined area stumps ,so I don't want to sacrifice the ability to maneuver in tight areas. The increased weight would also require an upgrade to a higher load capacity trailer...but if the 4012 is a better machine ,the I'd consider changing.
Any thoughts or observations are greatly appreciated..
Thanks,
NCgrinder


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## kennertree (Oct 6, 2009)

The 4012 is a pretty good machine. I've used a 252 and the 4012 is a much better machine. The 4012 is not that much heavier, i think it weighs around 1600 lbs. Never had any problems with mine pulling over chips or up hills. It has high and low speed and on low speed it will drive over anything.


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## NCgrinder (Oct 7, 2009)

*4012 ?'s*

Kennertree: Thanks for the input. I was impressed with the 4012 as far as the size of the shafts,brgs,cutter wheel,etc. It seemed to be very well built and heavied up in all the stress areas. I'm in Gastonia NC ,only 50-60 miles from the dealership in Sptbg SC, so parts & service would not be an issue.
Glad to hear that the 4012 travel across rough ground without staking down the frt wheel. As I said,my 252 really does amaze me at the rough terrain it's able to cross.I have installed a winch on my 252,which helps when grinding on a downhill slope.Which brings up the question, what is the purpose of the hydraulic tongue extension on the 4012 ? How many Hrs. do you have on your 4012 and have there been any problems?
I'm approaching 2000 hrs on my 252 and I'm gathering info on either replacing my 252 with a 4012 or re-powering my 252 with a 35 Briggs (includind upsizing the shafts,brgs,pulleys,etc.)

Thanks again for your reply,and I
appreciate the info on your 4012

NCgrinder
Gastonia NC


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## Bigstumps (Oct 7, 2009)

2000 Hours!!! That is a lot of hours! Is that on one Kohler engine??

The older Raycos and the Current Carlton machines have the tongue extension on them. I only use mine when I need to be real careful on the advance into the stump. It is like pushing off my truck with a tow behind.

I don't hardly ever use anything but the ground drive system when I'm grinding. It pulls real good in low and I've got the heavier Kubota engine on mine.

I do sometimes use the extension to lengthen the wheelbase just to make the machine more stable.

The Carlton is way faster on the ground than your 252.


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## NCgrinder (Oct 7, 2009)

*4012 ?'s*

BigStumps: Thanks for your reply..Slow ground speed has always been an issue with my 252..Since recently discovering this forum ,I have been reading a few posts on repowering & modifying the 252. One of the threads told of changing the hyd. pump drive pulley to speed up the ground drive motor ..The down side to that is that it makes the advance into the stump touchy and the swing faster...With the price of a new 4012 in the mid to high twenties , I may just hang a Briggs 35/38 Vanguard on my 252 and heavy up the shafts & brgs. ....but, that 4012 is really drawing me in...I am
within 60 miles of the dealership in Sptbg SC, so I may just go back for another strong look @ one...either I'm getting older or time is getting faster ,but I'm getting tired of spending all morning grinding on a big stump...


Yes,Its a 2000 model (bought it 12/2000)...and approaching 2000 hrs is correct (meter reads 1768 today)..With the original Kohler 25Hp Command Pro...and ....the original starter !!! and just this past Feburary ,as a precaution ,I replaced the original battery!!! I do my own maint.& repair,I'm the only one who has ever run it,and I change oil (10w-30 Pennzoil) & a Kohler filter every 50 hrs.

BTW : Where in SC are you ?

Thanks again for your input,
NCgrinder
Gastonia NC


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## stumper63 (Oct 8, 2009)

Your 252 is just getting broken in. My 03 has 3590 hours on original Kohler 25hp, still doesn't smoke. 

But is still a 252, not a 4012. I demo'd the 4x4 Kubota a couple years ago at the factory, was very impressed, just can't seem to wear out this 252. But someday....

Hey Bigstumps, I thought you had the 4x4, they don't have the tongue extension do they?


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## NCgrinder (Oct 8, 2009)

Stumper 63: Wow, with your 252 at 3590, mine is just getting started!!!

My greatest concern with a 4012 is it's ability to go in rough terrain..I've never seen one in operation ,so I'm having to go on what info I can gather on this forum. I didn't realize a 4WD option was available.I would imagine it's a pretty expensive option anyhow. I'm primarily concerned about a 2WD's rough terrain travel ability. 

I guess another trip to Carlton is next ..I'll see if they will demo a 2WD on a hilly site..at least I can compare 2WD vs 4wd ,prices ,etc...I just hate getting in the loop of a salesman calling every coupla days... 

And, you're right about the 252,it just keeps on going..I've made a living for the past 8 1/2 yrs with it ,rolled it over several times, replaced a ton of teeth,quite a few shafts & brgs,etc
I really hate to get rid of it ..it just gets into & out of some very tight areas...climbs up and over some very difficult terrain...Granted it isn't a 4012, but it's overall a really good machine 

NCgrinder


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## kiwidiesel (Oct 8, 2009)

Look at a Vermeer sc352. 34 Diesel horsepower. 4 wheel drive and Diff lock. We went from a sc252 and the difference is amazing. In two years and 500hrs we have neve been bogged down once,and we grind many stumps for other contractors who give up trying to get to them. The machine is also very stable on our steep terrain, never coming close to looking like tipping over. The auto sweep also works well and makes the job a lot more relaxing. Just dont buy the machine with Yellow Jacket teeth, they are not very good. Try Green Teeth 700s or a Sandvik wheel.


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## Bigstumps (Oct 8, 2009)

I'm down in Goose Creek. 

The hours you guys report on your machines amazes me. I think your concern with the Carlton not climbing shouldn't really worry you. Mine climbs things I shouldn't and 4WD is an option. Carlton has a new 44 horsepower option available so you may be able to find a 33 HP for sale as people start trading up.


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## stumper63 (Oct 8, 2009)

I hadn't heard Carlton had a 44hp option. Is it still on a 4012 platform? That would be awesome.

I can sympathize with ncgrinder on the size issue. The 352 is almost 2' longer than a 252 and many places I couldn't get to with that much difference. I also do a majority of my work in difficult to reach backyards and stuff. Could probably keep the 252 on standby and go for the 352 or 4012 44hp machine for alot of jobs.

Anyway, the hours are true, I put them all on, avg. 600 hrs per year. The only part of the machine that needs some attention this winter are the two pivots, bushing and bearing getting a bit sloppy. 

But one of these days I'll be doing the same thing, either putting on a bigger engine on the 252, or go with the 4012.

Stumper63


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## NCgrinder (Oct 8, 2009)

Kiwidiesel: I had a 2WD 352 demo'd for me and it got stuck immediately. I had to come in under a stump on a 10% grade and the 352 wouldn't pull up the grade . The factory rep the quoted the price for a 4WD option and it was several thousand more than a 2WD...so I had him load it up...I then unloaded my 252 and drove all over the site
Later on ,the rep brought it out to another site on level ground and I was not impressed at all with the bulk,and weight of the machine. I found it cumbersome at the least. All that high mounted engine ,radiator,etc just got in the way and it seemed to to be very unstable & top-heavy. I was even further disappointed that is didn't seem to have that much more power when grinding. Thats when I started looking at Carlton's 4012...

NCgrinder


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## NCgrinder (Oct 8, 2009)

Bigstumps: Is your 4012 2WD or 4WD??

Goose Creek... So, I'm sure you've eaten at The Wreck in Mt Pleasant..
NCgrinder


Woops ,just saw on your sig yours is a 4WD...sorry


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## kiwidiesel (Oct 9, 2009)

NCgrinder said:


> Kiwidiesel: I had a 2WD 352 demo'd for me and it got stuck immediately. I had to come in under a stump on a 10% grade and the 352 wouldn't pull up the grade . The factory rep the quoted the price for a 4WD option and it was several thousand more than a 2WD...so I had him load it up...I then unloaded my 252 and drove all over the site
> Later on ,the rep brought it out to another site on level ground and I was not impressed at all with the bulk,and weight of the machine. I found it cumbersome at the least. All that high mounted engine ,radiator,etc just got in the way and it seemed to to be very unstable & top-heavy. I was even further disappointed that is didn't seem to have that much more power when grinding. Thats when I started looking at Carlton's 4012...
> 
> NCgrinder


When i try running my 352 in 2 wheel drive mode it is useless traction wise. Switch to 4x4 in diff lock and its worth every extra dollar spent on the upgrade. There is plenty of power at the cutting disk, the tooth system makes a big difference. We had the pro teeth and the large pockets really slowed the machine down. Went to yellow jackets and performance improved a lot. Am changing to green teeth when they arrive in New Zealand because the Y J teeth are too soft and we cant keep an edge on them, and they have almost doubled in price.


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## coolbrze (Oct 10, 2009)

We had a 252 & sold it & got a Carlton 2500-4 27 Hp Kohler (the old version of the 4012) and it will out grind a 252. It is bigger & heavier (1,550 lbs.) than the 252 though. Our 2500-4 is 2wd & I haven't yet bought the dual wheels but am going to more for stability than traction. We've had our VERY close to tipping but it's one helluva machine.


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## dane-in-ky (Nov 15, 2009)

*2wd*

I have a sc352 diesel 2wd, i ground a 6 foot across oak stump yesterday, had no problem pulling over 3+ feet and grinding on chippings, use diff lock on 2wd with dual wheels and you shouldnt have a problem


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## stormchaser (Mar 2, 2012)

*4012*



NCgrinder said:


> Anybody care to share their real world experience with a Carlton 4012 grinder? I've been told they will not pull out of a hole or across a pile of chips without anchoring the frt wheel with a T-bar driven in the ground. The sales rep was very vague when I asked why there was an extension feature on the frame. He tried to convince me it was to lengthen the wheelbase for stability on uneven ground. I have a Vermeer 252 and am looking into either replacing it or repowering with a 31-35 HP Kohler or Briggs Vanguard. I've always been pleased at how my 252 will pull out of ditches,up hills,across chip piles,etc.I've even been able to nudge large trunk sections out of my way with the 252. The Carlton 4012 is also a bit larger & heavier ,which also concerns me. I specialize in confined area stumps ,so I don't want to sacrifice the ability to maneuver in tight areas. The increased weight would also require an upgrade to a higher load capacity trailer...but if the 4012 is a better machine ,the I'd consider changing.
> Any thoughts or observations are greatly appreciated..
> Thanks,
> NCgrinder


i had a 4012 last year and loved it but i wanted a 7015 and now i wish i had a 4012 i cant get in my enclosed trailer with the bigger one now but nobody is buying smaller machines anymore they want 7015s and larger so u will beable to find a 4012 easy im sure i was a the factory few months ago and they said everbody only wants larger machines now buy id trade for a 44hp kobote 4012 and give my 14ft. open trailer 8ft. tool box and big orange job box and gas powered aircompressor with 50 ft hose call if u wanna trade up 256-759-4349 david


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