# "Chainsaw Lumbermaking" by Will Malloff PDF Project



## Brmorgan

A recent thread here regarding loaning this book out finally got me to dig out my copy and scanner and start scanning all the pages to create a PDF of the whole book. It's something I've been wanting to do for a while now, and since joining this site back in the spring I've been surprised at the demand that's out there for it, not to mention the price it commands. Being as it's no longer in print, and since new copies are next to impossible to find since only something like 20,000 were printed to begin with, I don't think I'm doing any harm by copying the book into PDF form. I started out tonight and managed to do up the first 3 chapters in about 3 hours. Most of that was spent rotating and cropping the images, and then finding my copy of Acrobat and figuring out how to use it all over again. It's been a while. I only had Acrobat 6, but I'm going to grab a copy of 8 so that I can run text recognition and index it so it's searchable too. So without further ado, here is:

**UPDATED***Chainsaw Lumbermaking Chapters 1-7*

That now comprises about 750 of the slightly over 200 pages, and the rest will go quicker now that I have a system worked out. The file I posted came in at about 5.6 MB, the original uncompressed one was 111MB. I will be keeping full-resolution master copies if anyone ever wants one, but I will also keep playing with settings to get the regular filesize down as much as possible. Also on that note, I only have 10MB of webspace where I put it for now, and I don't really have anything anywhere else. So if anyone has some space where they can throw it and/or subsequent files, or if it's possible to put it up here somewhere, please let me know, or just download and re-post it.

I'll post additional chapters as I get them done, and once the whole book is done including covers etc. I will create a single master file and put it up on BitTorrent and Rapidshare. I'm glad, this is turning out to be not nearly as difficult as I thought it would, though still quite time consuming.

Cheers. 


EDIT: Don't know WTF happened with that last page there, I'll fix it and re-upload the file tomorrow. I'll post when it's fixed. *FIXED.*


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## stipes

*Thank you!!!!*

Alot of great info in there...


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## BobL

Fantastic - I rep ya but I'm all out.


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## stonykill

thanks! I'm looking forward to the rest of the book.


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## oldsaw

It's still copywrited material. You would need the author's or publisher's permission to do this. The book has not fallen into "public domain".

Mark


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## irishcountry

Thanks thats alwful generous of you spending that kind of time on a project like that it will be greatly appreciated by all! Thanks


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## OcoeeG

BrMorgan your the man!!!!


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## slabmaster

Great post! This will be so helpful to alot of people here.And since it's out of print,that makes it even better. Mark


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## AndyR

Yeah, be careful. Out of print does not mean its public domain. Most likely they'll tell you to quit it...Is it 50 years that a publication must be out of print to become public domain?





oldsaw said:


> It's still copywrited material. You would need the author's or publisher's permission to do this. The book has not fallen into "public domain".
> 
> Mark


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## artie__bc

Last I heard he was trying to get it reprinted...


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## TNMIKE

*Thanks*

I had been looking for a copy of this book


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## Brmorgan

I have up to chapter 7 completed now. I further optimized the settings so that everything up to ch. 7 comes in at about the same file size (6MB) as the previous 1-3, so I just replaced the whole file. Unfortunately if I run character recognition to make it searchable, the file comes in at 92MB!! That doesn't seem reasonable and I think there must be a way to reduce it. I noticed I had missed a couple pages from chapter 2 so they're in now, and the odd size problem with the last page in chapter 3 should be OK too.

*Chainsaw Lumbermaking Chapters 1-7*

Also, for the record, if the publisher or author sends me a takedown notice, I have no problem complying with that. I'm not looking to benefit in any way doing this, just to give some folks access to something they might otherwise never get to look at. I've seen other books posted on here in the past, so I dunno.


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## MikeInParadise

Thanks... Looks good...


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## slabmaster

Thanks for the update! You're doing a fine job! Mark


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## Brmorgan

*Chapters 8-9*

This is where the rubber hits the road in this book. The quality is a bit reduced to keep the file size down a bit, but it's still perfectly readable. I think maybe there isn't a 10MB limit on my space any more though, because I'm over that now and it didn't gripe about it. If so I'll put the quality up a bit more so the pictures can be zoomed in on better.


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## MikeInParadise

Great...Now it is starting to get into the good stuff.

(f you run out of space you can also download it into sites like you send it which will allow larger files but these sites usually have a time limit on how long files stay. My wife uses this working at home all the time with large files that are too big for peoples mailboxes.

http://www.yousendit.com


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## Zodiac45

Thanks Bruce!


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## corsair4360

*Chainsaw Lumbermaking PDF Project*

Thank you very much for you efforts, they are much appreciated.


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## mtngun

Thanks for sharing.

I like the way Malloff modified the Alaskan mill such that the chain can be swapped in situ. That mod is on my "to do" list.

Not so much on the winch. OK, I guess, if you are milling at home, but I mill in the woods, hauling gear to the tree, so I'm not going to haul any more than the bare necessities.


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## Brmorgan

mtngun said:


> Thanks for sharing.
> 
> I like the way Malloff modified the Alaskan mill such that the chain can be swapped in situ. That mod is on my "to do" list.
> 
> Not so much on the winch. OK, I guess, if you are milling at home, but I mill in the woods, hauling gear to the tree, so I'm not going to haul any more than the bare necessities.



Yeah, but if you were pushing an 090 your opinion might change really quick! First, it's like putting your ear a foot away from a dirtbike exhaust, and second, it vibrates like a jackhammer. 

I'm also planning on doing some mods to my gear over the winter. I've been meaning to drill a hole through the one guide shoe so that I can tension the chain on my 395 while it's mounted to the mill. That's one area where I really prefer the 660. I like the winch idea as long as I can drive to within a couple dozen feet of the log. Guess I could always use the winch on the quad if i could slow it down a bit!


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## slabmaster

Yeah,i think he spends too much time preparing to cut with that system:jawdrop: I would just build a carage mill for the saw and use that in the yard instead of bolting all that stuf on the log.With a carage,all you have to do is level the log and go.


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## Ted J

How many chapters are in the book anyway?


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## Jredsjeep

thanks this really helps me get a good idea of whats going on here! looking forward to the rest.


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## ray benson

Ted J said:


> How many chapters are in the book anyway?



13 chapters.


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## gunnarfan

*instead of publishing. he could make a few of this.*

so how about we see if mr malloff has a paypal account or equivalent and send him a few bucks? he could get a boost off of AS members alone.

looking forward to seeing the rest. makes a few peoples rigs look @ss backwards compared to what he accomplished years ago.

i found a great source for 95" aluminum i beams that aren't too heavy.. 2 1/2" x 5" i believe. will be making some stuff off of that. also sourced a used mk III locally that i'm looking to mod. good fun.


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## BobL

gunnarfan said:


> so how about we see if mr malloff has a paypal account or equivalent and send him a few bucks? he could get a boost off of AS members alone.



Good idea but this will probably just piss off the publishers because they are missing out.


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## Brmorgan

Well, there is a mailing address at his site HERE, but no email or anything. By the way, be sure to check out the "Will Mill" there, and especially the beautiful Walnut pieces at the bottom of the page. It's quite the setup for large logs. I have some 4'-5'+ diameter Douglas Fir to tackle next year, and I'll be rigging something similar but smaller up, probably just to quarter the logs. 

As far as the scanning is coming, I'm working on 10 and 11 now. Chapter 11 is BIG and I've been otherwise busy a bit, but everything should be done in a few days.

EDIT: I did dig up THIS LINK under the Contacts & Links page. There's an email address there, and wouldn't you know it, he's apparently QUITE aware of his popularity on ArboristSite.com.


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## BobL

This extract by Will from the site referred to in the previous post is pretty sad.

"In the ArboristSite.com there are many references to "Chainsaw Lumber Making" as being the bible of chainsaw millers. The out of print book now sells for 65 to 195 dollars U.S. available through dealers like Amazon.com. In the site I have even been called the king of chainsaw milling. The book cost me 24K to produce for which I got 19K back in royalties. As the demand seems so high I would like to sell the rights to reprint but no luck so far. "

So there you go, he has this very popular book and can't sell the rights to reprint to recover his investment - somehow the system sucks. :chainsawguy:


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## Brmorgan

Yes, Western copyright laws are complete BS. They do nothing but stifle creativity because the individual creators have almost no rights at all - they are transferred to the publishers, record labels, movie studios, etc. So in the end, the fat cats keep getting richer off of other people's work as always.


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## Texas Traveler

slabmaster said:


> Yeah,i think he spends too much time preparing to cut with that system:jawdrop: I would just build a carage mill for the saw and use that in the yard instead of bolting all that stuf on the log.With a carage,all you have to do is level the log and go.


 I think it is a complicated mess as is, there are other better ways of doing it.
I just received the book itself from Amazon & it is not worth the just under a 100 bucks I spent. 
Now the pictures tell a story, looking at it from that view you might could say it was worth it.
Believe me read what can help you here & dump the rest. 

Now I know he must be the guru of chainsaw milling, but out of date.

There are some smart people just here on this string of post that has better ideas.


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## MikeInParadise

Texas Traveler said:


> I think it is a complicated mess as is, there are other better ways of doing it.
> I just received the book itself from Amazon & it is not worth the just under a 100 bucks I spent.
> Now the pictures tell a story, looking at it from that view you might could say it was worth it.
> Believe me read what can help you here & dump the rest.
> 
> Now I know he must be the guru of chainsaw milling, but out of date.
> 
> There are some smart people just here on this string of post that has better ideas.



I agree that his set up looks complicated. 

I think what you have to recognize is the timing of the book, I think the fact is that he was one of earlier adopters of using the chainsaw for milling and that is what give him his credibility.

As with anything else once you see what someone has done, the idea sparks in your head and you can improve upon but you still have to give credit to the originator.

I personally would like to the other chapters.


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## Texas Traveler

MikeInParadise said:


> I agree that his set up looks complicated.
> 
> I think what you have to recognize is the timing of the book, I think the fact is that he was one of earlier adopters of using the chainsaw for milling and that is what give him his credibility.
> 
> As with anything else once you see what someone has done, the idea sparks in your head and you can improve upon but you still have to give credit to the originator.
> 
> I personally would like to the other chapters.


 Well I would like to see the price of the book itself come down in price.
You are right about his ideas, but that was in the 60s.
40 years later they're much improved. 
If Kinkos would copy it that might be one way but the amount of pictures in the book may increase the cost.
You know portable bandsaw mills have not been around to long, My son had one but sold it. When he lost a big contract on pallets for a mfg. company.
That was one slick machine.


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## zopi

BobL said:


> somehow the system sucks. :chainsawguy:



You didn't even scratch the surface of the publishing industry...It is a complete goatrope...the author, who do 99.99% of the work get pennies if they are lucky enough to get published...the authors who make the money are the million plus bestsellers...

Wifey has written and sold two bestsellers in it's category...tech books on Google analytics..made a little $$ on advances..but barely earned them out. 

I could see he might have spent twenty grand developing his technology, 
but 20k on the book? Nah..if he'd wanted to make money on the deal
he should have gotten into the manufacturing end of it..selling "A" book 
is no way to make money. 

I dig the book though. 

There are some folks right here on this site who deserve a big slice of the 
credit for pushing chainsaw milling technology forward...not too many 
folks in the world are running a 72" bar in an alaskan f'rinstance...

The cats that made their money in sawmill development are the Woodmizer guys...


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## BobL

Texas Traveler said:


> Well I would like to see the price of the book itself come down in price.



The reason the book is currently so expensive is that it is out of print so supply/demand pressures kick in. Even if the publisher were to print a new run the price is not controlled by the author but the publisher.

The book sold 250 thousand copies but Will Malloff only made $19k or 8 cents a book! He still hasn't recovered his $24k initial investment.

I asked my wife who is a librarian about the legality of copying an out of print book. She says (here in Australia at least) if the book is out of print it is fully legal to make a full copy for yourself. You obviously cannot sell it but sending the author a dontation for his ecological stance on timber recovery would be OK.

I would definitely make a contribution if a paypal account could be set up for him.


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## Texas Traveler

BobL said:


> The reason the book is currently so expensive is that it is out of print so supply/demand pressures kick in. Even if the publisher were to print a new run the price is not controlled by the author but the publisher.
> 
> The book sold 250 thousand copies but Will Malloff only made $19k or 8 cents a book! He still hasn't recovered his $24k initial investment.
> 
> I asked my wife who is a librarian about the legality of copying an out of print book. She says (here in Australia at least) if the book is out of print it is fully legal to make a full copy for yourself. You obviously cannot sell it but sending the author a dontation for his ecological stance on timber recovery would be OK.
> 
> I would definitely make a contribution if a paypal account could be set up for him.


 I had to copywrite something through a lawyer one time here in the US but it was just good for 5 years or so. I guess you have to stay on top of it.


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## gunnarfan

i'd say the ideas especially the ones that promote the safety/fatigue prevention of the user as well as the remote controlling of the saw are worthwhile as a starting point. plus also having a book or other reference material helps to validate what you are doing in the face of criticism.. ie.. the wife. my wife thinks i'm nuts. .i can't speak for anyone else. i'd say this forum and the book are encouraging if not anything else.

what will has had posted on websites in recent years should also be looked at as well.

i guess its all about problem solving for the situation you are in anyways.


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## Texas Traveler

BobL said:


> The reason the book is currently so expensive is that it is out of print so supply/demand pressures kick in. Even if the publisher were to print a new run the price is not controlled by the author but the publisher.
> 
> The book sold 250 thousand copies but Will Malloff only made $19k or 8 cents a book! He still hasn't recovered his $24k initial investment.
> 
> I asked my wife who is a librarian about the legality of copying an out of print book. She says (here in Australia at least) if the book is out of print it is fully legal to make a full copy for yourself. You obviously cannot sell it but sending the author a dontation for his ecological stance on timber recovery would be OK.
> 
> I would definitely make a contribution if a paypal account could be set up for him.


 I have had dealings with one of your countymen for years here in the US in miltary arms books and a noted writer of British Arms history.
Ian Skennerington. Ian has all of his publishing work published in Thailand.


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## Brmorgan

Texas Traveler said:


> I think it is a complicated mess as is, there are other better ways of doing it.
> I just received the book itself from Amazon & it is not worth the just under a 100 bucks I spent.
> Now the pictures tell a story, looking at it from that view you might could say it was worth it.
> Believe me read what can help you here & dump the rest.
> 
> Now I know he must be the guru of chainsaw milling, but out of date.
> 
> There are some smart people just here on this string of post that has better ideas.



You have to know where he's coming from though. He doesn't mill for pure profit (I realize that might not even register with some people). His whole purpose of milling like this is to have the absolute least impact on the environment, while being able to cut logs that are otherwise impractical or impossible to cut, and to be able to produce some very unique pieces, as you can see in his website. He's very much an environmentalist, and prefers a simple, private life. So if you're just looking to make a wad of money or are looking for the most efficient setup, then his isn't the way to go. If you want to be able to do some things that most others cannot for a relatively small investment, then it is. I'm not really sold on the whole winch setup myself, but every hour I spend pushing the 090 through a log by hand makes it look more and more attractive. 

True, the book might not be such a great investment for someone who is already well set-up and has their own efficient system worked out. It is, after all, aimed at n00bs. I'm not sure I would say there is anyone here who has BETTER ideas necessarily, just improvements on his basic ideas based on personal experience. For instance, I think that BobL's BIL mill is a vast improvement over the Granberg mills as far as user-friendliness goes (unless the pictures LIE!!!) , but the basic mechanics of it are the same. I don't know what part of this book I could "dump" though. There's a lot of great info on how to maintain saws and especially chains, and I still find myself browsing through the milling pictures now and then. And in the last section there's some really unique uses for saws and some other custom milling jigs. The book is worth the going rate for me, because it's saved me numerous hours of learning from my own mistakes. Just my $.02.



gunnarfan said:


> Plus also having a book or other reference material helps to validate what you are doing in the face of criticism.. ie.. the wife. my wife thinks i'm nuts. .i can't speak for anyone else. i'd say this forum and the book are encouraging if not anything else.



Agreed. My mom thought I was nuts for having over a dozen saws, and spending free time sweating my a$$ off in the bush to make something I could easily buy. I tell her you don't learn anything that way, and then I show her pictures of some of your guys' collections of saws, or other crazy milling setups and the beautiful and unique projects that come out of them. And point out that making the beams for my deck this summer cost me about $50 instead of many hundreds. Case closed.


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## BobL

Brmorgan said:


> I'm not sure I would say there is anyone here who has BETTER ideas necessarily, just improvements on his basic ideas based on personal experience. For instance, I think that BobL's BIL mill is a vast improvement over the Granberg mills as far as user-friendliness goes (unless the pictures LIE!!!) , but the basic mechanics of it are the same.


No lies, the slabs are piling up as fast as I can use it. Before anyone else says it, let me say it first. I would not claim the BIL mill as a vast improvement. I made a basic Alaskan and used it for a few months before deciding I could do better. Mechanically the BIL mill really just a collection of a dozen or so useful things I have see either on this or other sites, some of which have nothing to do with milling. Most of the ideas came from looking at AggieWoodbutchers mods on his mill. 



> I don't know what part of this book I could "dump" though. There's a lot of great info on how to maintain saws and especially chains, and I still find myself browsing through the milling pictures now and then. And in the last section there's some really unique uses for saws and some other custom milling jigs. The book is worth the going rate for me, because it's saved me numerous hours of learning from my own mistakes. Just my $.02.



The $100 price is the going rate because that's what others are prepared to to pay for it, and for a noob it will save way way more that that. Like any book I don't take it as gospel but as a guide. BTW, Will Malloff does not get any of this $100, it goes entirely to the seller minus whatever epay etc want.

I wouldn't dump any parts of the book. As a book written in the 80's its completeness is of significant historical value. I just wish Will could benefit 
financially from it more than he has.


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## Brmorgan

*All Done All Done!!*

Had some spare time tonight, so I buckled down and did the last 80-odd pages. Only took about 3 hours. This final version contains every page from front cover to back cover, except the totally blank ones. I think I got everything, but of course let me know if you notice something wrong.

This file is at 75ppi resolution and comes in at 13.1MB, not too shabby for 224 pages full of photos. If anyone wants a higher-resolution file, let me know and I'll figure out a way to send it, probably Rapidshare would be the easiest.

*Chainsaw Lumbermaking by Will Malloff (1982)*

Enjoy! I know I will, now I can just load this up on my Pocket PC and I can take it with me wherever I go, to any jobsite, and I don't have to worry about greasing up the actual book.


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## BobL

Thanks for posting the complete work. A great effort.
Bob


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## trimmmed

zopi said:


> You didn't even scratch the surface of the publishing industry...It is a complete goatrope...the author, who do 99.99% of the work get pennies if they are lucky enough to get published...the authors who make the money are the million plus bestsellers...



Amen to that. I wonder if maloof can even print this book now without the publishers permission.


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## zopi

trimmmed said:


> Amen to that. I wonder if maloof can even print this book now without the publishers permission.



If he owns the rights he can...although, I believe he would be better off using a print on demand publishing house and doing it himself...there are alot of methods of being published out there for a small author...and a few that let you control the whole thing. 

He may not want to though...it's a bit of hassle to manage.


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## MikeInParadise

BR...Thanks for doing this...Great job..

I am looking forward to spending some time with it but not today as it is the first time we have seen the sun in a week.

I just took a quick glance at it and this is my favourite picture so far!







Does this mean I can replace my Uni-Saw with the 660?


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## dustytools

Thank you for taking the time to copy this for us.


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## HarryHarley

Thank you Brmorgan....................


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## trimmmed

dustytools said:


> Thank you for taking the time to copy this for us.



Plus 1 ! Thanks.


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## DRB

Thanks Brmorgan. Way to take one for the team 

Great info in that book. Looking forward to reading it all.


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## cjcocn

Thanks Brmorgan!  

I usually hang out in the Firewood and Chainsaw forums, but wanted to learn a bit about milling as a possibility for me. I will be able to get a ton of info from the posts in this forum, but this book is great as a single source of reading!

Thanks again!


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## graemenz

*Thanks from New Zealand*

 I had heard a lot about this book but never had the chance to look at a copy . It is great of you to do this and will inspire me to do more chainsaw milling . Here is a photo of some Elm I milled with my Lucas swing mill if anybody is interested .


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## Dai Sensei

Brmorgan said:


> ... This final version contains every page from front cover to back cover, except the totally blank ones. I think I got everything, but of course let me know if you notice something wrong.



Fantastic  Thanks you so much.


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## weisyboy

great wish i had this when i started milling.


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## Rockfarmer

Thanks for taking the time to do that, I appreciate it! :yourock:


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## bombdude

Another thank you post. Very generous of you to do this.


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## Backwood

Brmorgan said:


> The book is worth the going rate for me, because it's saved me numerous hours of learning from my own mistakes. Just my $.02.
> . Case closed.



Totally agree. 
I bought a copy a couple years ago on ebay and after reading it sold it and got my money back, how many things can you use and then sell it for no loss? Like I have said in another post the only bad thing about this deal is that Mr. Malloof is not the one making the money. Now to find out that he may have only made 8 cents  I would chip in a little to a paypal account for him. 

Mr Malloff THANKS
Brmorgan Thanks


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## Stihl088stock

This is great! Thank you, we all owe you a beer!!!


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## peterrum

Thanks BR for doing this project. i have the hardcover book but its nice to have it on my computer so I can double check on a couple of things when I am thinking projects through and the book is not handy.


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## rkwelp

*Chainsaw lumbermaking pdf*

Can those pdf files you created be emailed? The link says the page can't be found. Probably because of the copyright.


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## kam

check post #40


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## rkwelp

*Thanks*

Thanks kam, 
Right after I posted that I realized there more pages to that thread and found the whole manual. I have it my document file now. 
Thanks again from another newbie


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## Lloyd H

*pdf file*

Anyone get "file damaged and can't be repaired" ? Doesn't matter if I try to view it or download and then try to view. Down loaded several times and same result.


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## Ted J

Lloyd H said:


> Anyone get "file damaged and can't be repaired" ? Doesn't matter if I try to view it or download and then try to view. Down loaded several times and same result.



Lloyd,
I sent you a PM
Ted


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## dallasm1

thank you for your excellent effort brmorgan.


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## Brmorgan

Lloyd H said:


> Anyone get "file damaged and can't be repaired" ? Doesn't matter if I try to view it or download and then try to view. Down loaded several times and same result.



What's your version of Acrobat? To reduce the file size, I got rid of compatibility options for versions before 6. It still opens up fine for me, so that might be your problem.

BTW I know I'm being slow making the higher-quality file, but you know how it can be over Christmas holidays. Hopefully I'll have a bit more time in the next little while to do it. 

Thanks everyone for all the kind words on this one.


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## user 19670

*Thanks for the book*

I downloaded it last night and stayed up until the wee hours of the morning reading it. Sure is a lot of work making lumber his way isn't it?

Thanks for scanning and providing the pdf.


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## Brmorgan

Yeah, it's a lot of work, especially in the bigger logs, but you certainly can't beat the price. I cut hundreds of dollars' worth of douglas fir beams this summer for about $50 worth of gas (even at $1.40+/L) for the saws and quad to haul the wood out of the bush. The other upside is that the cuts you can make are limited only by your imagination, and you can find and cut interesting pieces of wood that would either be discarded as scrap or would be prohibitively expensive. Not to mention that you can't get the same feeling of satisfaction by going to the lumber yard and just picking up any old piece of wood.

Glad you enjoyed the book.


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## NHCowboy

Can I get the large version? I'd like to process it for OCR and get the size down further for you... PM me.


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## Brmorgan

NHCowboy said:


> Can I get the large version? I'd like to process it for OCR and get the size down further for you... PM me.



Well, the _big_ master file is 900MB+, so that might not be so easy... I can do OCR here as I have a full copy of Acrobat. However, it won't let me do it unless the file resolution is over 200ppi (the existing one is 75ppi), which I tried, and the filesize was still enormous, mostly due to the index I guess. I still have to play with the settings some more, but like I said I haven't had that much time lately. The other trick is that I'm not sure just how much personal webspace I have to upload the file to, and I definitely can't email something that large. The best option I can think of is BitTorrent, and I'm NOT signing up at some hokey 3rd-party "free" file-hosting site as I don't feel like getting any more spam than I already do. I already have a paid account with Rapidshare which would work great, but anyone without a paid account has to suffer wait times and slightly reduced download speeds (though they're still faster than most "free" file hosters). I should be able to get something figured out in the next few days, I'm back to regular work hours for the time being now.


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## NHCowboy

Hrm... tis' a problem...


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## masiman

Brmorgan said:


> Well, the _big_ master file is 900MB+, so that might not be so easy... I can do OCR here as I have a full copy of Acrobat. However, it won't let me do it unless the file resolution is over 200ppi (the existing one is 75ppi), which I tried, and the filesize was still enormous, mostly due to the index I guess. I still have to play with the settings some more, but like I said I haven't had that much time lately. The other trick is that I'm not sure just how much personal webspace I have to upload the file to, and I definitely can't email something that large. The best option I can think of is BitTorrent, and I'm NOT signing up at some hokey 3rd-party "free" file-hosting site as I don't feel like getting any more spam than I already do. I already have a paid account with Rapidshare which would work great, but anyone without a paid account has to suffer wait times and slightly reduced download speeds (though they're still faster than most "free" file hosters). I should be able to get something figured out in the next few days, I'm back to regular work hours for the time being now.





NHCowboy said:


> Hrm... tis' a problem...



I might be able to figure a way to help you two out. I'll send you a PM.


----------



## Brmorgan

OK, for all who were waiting, I finally got a higher-resolution file done, along with text recognition so it is now fully searchable. The file size is not all that bad either, 38MB. Especially since this file, at 200 DPI, has almost eight times the resolution of the original 75 DPI file I posted.

I could have further reduced the filesize if I had converted it into a formatted text document instead of a searchable image, but I found the text recognition didn't pick up nearly as many words that way. One thing I did do to reduce the size a bit was remove compatibility for Acrobat Reader versions prior to 7. So if you're using an old version, this file may or may not display for you, but don't gripe because even version 7 is years old and updates are free for the Reader.

So anyway, here you go:

*Chainsaw Lumbermaking by Will Malloff, 200DPI, Searchable, 38MB*

I uploaded it to Rapidshare because I already have an account with them and it was by far the easiest for now. You don't need an account to download from them, though you may have to wait a minute or two and there is a limit to how much you can download within a certain timeframe. So if you download this file once, you might have to wait an hour or two to download from Rapidshare again as a free user. I also plan on creating a BitTorrent release with it too, and other options have been discussed as well. I will continue to host the smaller 13MB file on my personal space for now, for anyone who would rather have the smaller file for a portable device or something. Can iPods/iPhones display PDFs?

Be sure to let me know if there are any problems with it. It seems fine for me so far.

PS - I tried editing the first post in this thread to include the up-to-date links but there's no option to do so. I guess it must be too old?


----------



## 046

just downloaded the latest version.... looks great! 

free download site was pretty zippy too. waiting a minute before downloading is no big deal. 

the plan is to put 084 to work milling a few boards. 

thanks again for all the time put into this..


----------



## BobL

046 said:


> just downloaded the latest version.... looks great!
> 
> free download site was pretty zippy too. waiting a minute before downloading is no big deal.
> 
> the plan is to put 084 to work milling a few boards.
> 
> thanks again for all the time put into this..



:agree2:


----------



## wesgillock

THANKS:greenchainsaw: for the hard work. will help this noob a bunch


----------



## NHCowboy

Oops, limit of 10 dl's reached.... Who is your ISP? They will usually give you 50-100 MB of webspace! (?)


----------



## TNMIKE

*Same problem here*

The limit of ten has been reached.


----------



## prickettwood

How comes when I click on it all I get is some web page about SHAW and that the page no longer exsist for both of the sections that where put on here? Ok wait, I figured out theirs more post. But now theirs no more to download. Is their going to be anymore chances to download it?
Matt


----------



## Ted J

Brad,
This is the error message that comes up:

*Error

This file is neither allocated to a Premium Account, or a Collector's Account, and can therefore only be downloaded 10 times.

This limit is reached.

To download this file, the uploader either needs to transfer this file into his/her Collector's Account, or upload the file again. The file can later be moved to a Collector's Account. The uploader just needs to click the delete link of the file to get further information.*


----------



## Brmorgan

OK, I'll have to get that taken care of tonight. I'm just heading out for the day right now. I thought I had it under my account but I must have messed something up. Patience please!


----------



## TNMIKE

*take your time my friend*

none of us would have anything if not for you


----------



## Brmorgan

TNMIKE said:


> none of us would have anything if not for you



Wow, didn't know I had _that_ much power!  

Anywho, I got the Rapidshare thing figured out now, so the file should be good for a while. I think it'll get automatically deleted if it isn't accessed for 90 days or something. You can get that one here:
*
http://rapidshare.com/files/1852683...ng_by_Will_Malloff__1982__Searchable_Text.pdf*

I also started a Torrent that contains both the high-res and low-res files., which can be found here:

*http://www.mininova.org/tor/2190696*

I can't guarantee much upload speed while I'm using the computer, but I'll let it seed at full speed overnight etc. If we get a few people with the file it should speed it up significantly.


----------



## Brmorgan

*Important*

Hi all. I just received a Cease & Desist / Takedown notice letter in the mail from Mr. Malloff's lawyer. As I said at the beginning, I have no problem complying with that and intend to do so. I had already stopped sharing the files a while ago, but I would ask ANYONE who downloaded it and is still seeding it over BitTorrent to delete the file and stop. I have asked the lawyer about the legality of folks who own a hardcopy of the book also possessing the PDF file, but until I hear back it should be off-limits.

Hopefully something good comes of this, like a re-printing or a commercially available E-Book format. The demand is certainly here for it.


----------



## dallasm1

Brmorgan said:


> Hi all. I just received a Cease & Desist / Takedown notice letter in the mail from Mr. Malloff's lawyer. As I said at the beginning, I have no problem complying with that and intend to do so. I had already stopped sharing the files a while ago, but I would ask ANYONE who downloaded it and is still seeding it over BitTorrent to delete the file and stop. I have asked the lawyer about the legality of folks who own a hardcopy of the book also possessing the PDF file, but until I hear back it should be off-limits.
> 
> Hopefully something good comes of this, like a re-printing or a commercially available E-Book format. The demand is certainly here for it.




Interesting. I did download a copy, but I also own the book. However, I bought the book USED, so I am sure that Maloff has not received a dime of that transaction. Hopefully they are considering a reprint or an update of some kind and are trying to protect the potential market. In any case, you did a great job in trying to fill the void that existed and with the best of intentions. Thanks to Maloff for his great book and to you for your efforts to bring it to us here at AS.


----------



## NHCowboy

Ditto here thanks for the efforts but I guess I'll have to find this info somewhere else...


----------



## dallasm1

I see that Amazon.com has it listed no lower than $95 and as high as $195. Supply and demand. 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0918804124/ref=sr_1_olp_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1235020201&sr=8-2


----------



## Stihl088stock

My e-copy had a "fatal error" after the first time I looked at it, so it's already deleted.

Perhaps Mr. Malloff could write an updated version of his book instead of pading his lawyer's pockets? After all, I can't really go out and buy an 090G as I believe he suggested in the book (only viewed the file breifly.) I'm guessing there are other out-of-date tips in there.

Maybe he could add some info on all the new bandsaws and lucas mills and it would be worth buying as a "home lumbermaking" reference book? 

Mr. Malloff appears to have a lot of ingenuity, he should put it to uses to help the world, not his lawyer!


----------



## BobL

Stihl088stock said:


> Perhaps Mr. Malloff could write an updated version of his book instead of pading his lawyer's pockets? After all, I can't really go out and buy an 090G as I believe he suggested in the book (only viewed the file breifly.) I'm guessing there are other out-of-date tips in there.



I've read the whole book cover to cover and there are still more up-to-date tips in it than otherwise. There are way more tips than any single one of us has in our heads. They are more than just tips, he has actually repeatedly tried them out to ensure they work.



> Maybe he could add some info on all the new bandsaws and lucas mills and it would be worth buying as a "home lumbermaking" reference book?


 If its so worthless why are people still willing to pay US$100 a copy for a second hand version? Of course Mr Malloff gets none of this but it shows the value of the book. Why don't you write a book and see if 30 years later the second hand versions can be sold for $100. 



> Mr. Malloff appears to have a lot of ingenuity, he should put it to uses to help the world, not his lawyer!


 Hang on, the IP in the book is still his and he has every right to defend it as he sees fit. I am very surprised he let it get this far. His book as it stands has helped the world way more than any other small timber miller book.


----------



## Stihl088stock

BoBL: Thanks for the major misinterpretation of my post.

I have nothing against the book or Mr. Malloff defending it. I am against the anti-distribution of (as you so impetuously pointed out) good ideas. Mr. Malloff should have more copies printed so I can afford to purchase it new at list price... This would benefit everyone.

I NEVER said it was worthless...


----------



## BobL

Stihl088stock said:


> BoBL: Thanks for the major misinterpretation of my post.
> 
> I have nothing against the book or Mr. Malloff defending it. I am against the anti-distribution of (as you so impetuously pointed out) good ideas. Mr. Malloff should have more copies printed so I can afford to purchase it new at list price... This would benefit everyone.
> 
> I NEVER said it was worthless...



Sorry - it appears I did misinterpret your post - I'm 100% with you on things that get in the way of the distribution of good ideas. In terms of Mr Malloff reprinting the book, unfortunately he does not have the rights to the book (they are owned by someone else) and he has forked out $24k to have the book printed and has personally only got back $19k from the 250,000 copies of the book that were sold. I wonder if the lawyer who contacted Brad was the Publishers lawyer rather than Mr Mallof's?


----------



## Stihl088stock

Bobl: No worries, we're all on the same team searching for knowledge. Books like this keep us from "reinventing the wheel."

That's too bad that Mr Malloff doesn't own the rights to the book. Whoever has asked that the scanned copy be removed probably has done so for a reason. It would be silly to stop the distribution of a book that won't be published again. 

Perhaps the copyright owner should offer an e-version for sale, it would save a lot over publishing costs.


----------



## jandc

Hi,

Can someone email me the pdf file of the book?

Thanks,

jandc

Belgium


----------



## Ted J

jandc said:


> Hi,
> 
> Can someone email me the pdf file of the book?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> jandc
> 
> Belgium



Maybe you should read the thread............ again, if you've read it already.

you can get a copy here:


----------



## Brmorgan

Yeah I'd like to help you out but there's not much I can do, both out of respect for Mr. Malloff's wishes and my own distaste for legal trouble. It's probably still floating around the web somewhere though.


----------



## wavefreak

Having converted to entire work into a electronic format, perhaps the lawyer would consider ePublishing it. All the hard work is done. Post it and start selling them for $20 a pop. Cut out the middle man.


----------



## BobL

wavefreak said:


> Having converted to entire work into a electronic format, perhaps the lawyer would consider ePublishing it. All the hard work is done. Post it and start selling them for $20 a pop. Cut out the middle man.



The publishing rights are not owned by Mr Mallof or his lawyers but by a publishing house and I believe they are trying to buy the rights back.


----------



## Brmorgan

[RANT]That would make too much sense. One would _think_ that they would say, "Hey, apparently there's a demand here, let's look at how we can make some money off of this." There is nothing in my file that is not in the book, and vice-versa. I listed a few ideas in the email I sent to the lawyer in response to the takedown notice letter I got from them, and I never got a single response at all. Kinda nice to threaten me with a $20K-per-copy lawsuit and then not even have the decency to respond to my email, eh? I was pretty stressed out for quite a while because I had no idea WTF was going to come out of it, whether they were actually going to come after me for money (good luck since I'm broke as :censored: and am almost upside-down on the mortgage!) or whether my compliance would be satisfactory. I can only assume the latter since I never heard anything back from them. The other possibility is that they've been silently watching my every move...

I think the fact that I have a working knowledge of Canadian copyright law might have deterred them a bit - in Canada, if you buy a copyrighted work in one format/medium, you are legally entitled to make a copy onto any other format of choice for backup or compatibility purposes - for example it isn't illegal to make an MP3 from vinyl or a CD for personal use. So, they'd have a really hard time nailing me for scanning the book to PDF in the first place. Secondly, I never directly emailed or otherwise sent any portion of the book directly to anyone else; I simply didn't hide its location, and then it was up to others to make the decision to "pirate" it. It's a very gray area and our idiot Conservative government has been doing its very best lately to make our copyright laws just as restrictive and senseless as those in the US. 

I don't take issue with copyrights being enforced on new, current content (to an extent), but when a book (or record) has been out of production for 25 years and is no longer available in the mainstream marketplace, what is the point of enforcing copyright? Nobody stands to lose any money since what is being copied is no longer being sold. If anything, I would be inclined to buy _more_ from a publisher/producer/artist that understands the benefits of sheer distribution volume over a tightly controlled market. I practice this with my music purchases - I WILL NOT buy a CD or digital music file that is copy-protected in any way.[/RANT]

Having said all that though, while I don't agree with the legal position taken here, I do respect it. Sorry for the long-windedness, just felt like getting that off my chest.


----------



## Backwood

No offence to Mr Malloff because I am greatfull for his work but the publishers can stickit where the sun dont shine. 
I am ready to order my copy of " chainsaw milling with the Bil mill " as soon as Bob writes the book.


----------



## Brmorgan

I think Bob's already written the book, it's just that some poor soul with a lot of spare time would have to sift through this forum for days on end to organize all the info!


----------



## BobL

Brmorgan said:


> I think Bob's already written the book, it's just that some poor soul with a lot of spare time would have to sift through this forum for days on end to organize all the info!



I'll do it - but not while I'm still young enough to keep milling.


----------



## Backwood

:biggrinbounce2:


----------



## zopi

As I said in my first post, the publishing industry is a goat rope...the author invariably gets robbed...unless you are danielle steele or stephen king that is...

I would still E-publish the thing for him, if he could get the rights back..sent an email vis his website a long time ago with no response....


----------



## Old Cane

Well, guys, I skipped from page 1 to here. I thought this is where it was headed when I saw it. Not sure how some of you figure things but if I own a car, park it in the driveway and leave it for a year that doesn't mean you have a right to come drive it away. That's theft. Same as when I put my lunch in the fridge at work and somebody comes and eats it because "I didn't know whose it was". Yes, that's happened to me. The point is, it's not yours. And just because I'm not using it right now doesn't mean it doesn't belong to me. Some people can't figure out that when you own a patent or a copyright, that makes it property.

As a songwriter I have some pretty strong opinions about this kind of thing. If it's something I created it means as much to me as the gazebo you built yourself. Want me to strip the lumber off of that so other people can use it for something? I still collect royalties from songs I wrote 25 years ago. People are not just supposed to take what belongs to you. I think there may be laws in the red states that proclaim that very fact. Not sure about the other states.

Nobody seem to think intellectual property is worth anything since algore invented the internet. Guess he should have gotten a patent, huh?


----------



## BobL

Old Cane said:


> Well, guys, I skipped from page 1 to here. I thought this is where it was headed when I saw it. Not sure how some of you figure things but if I own a car, park it in the driveway and leave it for a year that doesn't mean you have a right to come drive it away. That's theft. Same as when I put my lunch in the fridge at work and somebody comes and eats it because "I didn't know whose it was". Yes, that's happened to me. The point is, it's not yours. And just because I'm not using it right now doesn't mean it doesn't belong to me. Some people can't figure out that when you own a patent or a copyright, that makes it property.
> 
> As a songwriter I have some pretty strong opinions about this kind of thing. If it's something I created it means as much to me as the gazebo you built yourself. Want me to strip the lumber off of that so other people can use it for something? I still collect royalties from songs I wrote 25 years ago. People are not just supposed to take what belongs to you. I think there may be laws in the red states that proclaim that very fact. Not sure about the other states.
> 
> Nobody seem to think intellectual property is worth anything since algore invented the internet. Guess he should have gotten a patent, huh?



Well maybe you do need to go back and read the whole thread and find out who now owns the rights to his book before taking such a pontificating stance.


----------



## stonykill

BobL said:


> Well maybe you do need to go back and read the whole thread and find out who now owns the rights to his book before taking such a pontificating stance.



:agree2:

I'm a musician/songwriter also. I see your point old cane, but it does not apply here......


----------



## Old Cane

Bob, the point is, *it ain't you or anyone else on this thread*, is it? I don't care who it is. You mention in a reply it's not the author, it's _someone else_, whoever that is. The author must have either sold or signed away his rights. I don't care. This property is legally owned by someone and someone with no claim to it tried to copy it and give it away. That is clearly theft as it is with any book or recording or painting. Unless the owner, usually the author but not in this case, has given permission for it to be copied and distributed. Maybe where you live you don't mind people stealing your property or maybe it's not against the law. I don't know and I don't care. It is where I live and I'm glad.

Some people have trouble understanding that a published work (ideas contained within) is *property*. Are there really tree huggers on this site that think all ideas put into a published form should be shared freely and no one should own them? What incentive would there be to create art if it's a _sure thing _that you will starve?


----------



## Old Cane

Why is it so hard to post who owns rights to the book? I see that the OP a letter to stop from the author's lawyer and no replies since then say to "go ahead on" with the distribution. What am I missing? Everything I said in the first reply applies here. It was out of print so must be ok to steal. The "conservative" govt are idiots. Ah, now I get where you're coming from. Everything belongs to everyone in Ca. Ok, How about everyone in the provinces send me your address and I'll come up and take everything you own that's either not being used or is over 25 years old? How would that fly? Hey, read my lips, the rights to the book belong to someone! Someone owns it! Yes, you can make a copy for personal use here too. *FOR YOUR OWN PERSONAL USE, NOT THE INTERNET'S PERSONAL USE*. Am I the only one that wants to keep what I own safe? I guess so. I thought most of us here would be like minded but I don't hang out with law breakers.

See ya guys. Enjoy paying the price of breaking the law.


----------



## rarefish383

Sorry guys, I skipped from the first page or so to here also. Not being totally up on the facts, just what I see on the surface, I gotta run with old cane. I would really like to read this book, I might break down and by a copy for 90 bucks. After I read it I'll be happy to pass it around, Joe.


----------



## Brmorgan

Old Cane said:


> Well, guys, I skipped from page 1 to here. I thought this is where it was headed when I saw it. Not sure how some of you figure things but if I own a car, park it in the driveway and leave it for a year that doesn't mean you have a right to come drive it away. That's theft. Same as when I put my lunch in the fridge at work and somebody comes and eats it because "I didn't know whose it was". Yes, that's happened to me. The point is, it's not yours. And just because I'm not using it right now doesn't mean it doesn't belong to me. Some people can't figure out that when you own a patent or a copyright, that makes it property.
> 
> As a songwriter I have some pretty strong opinions about this kind of thing. If it's something I created it means as much to me as the gazebo you built yourself. Want me to strip the lumber off of that so other people can use it for something? I still collect royalties from songs I wrote 25 years ago. People are not just supposed to take what belongs to you. I think there may be laws in the red states that proclaim that very fact. Not sure about the other states.
> 
> Nobody seem to think intellectual property is worth anything since algore invented the internet. Guess he should have gotten a patent, huh?




Geez talk about dredging up an old fight... OK, have it your way. Bob was much more succinct and kind than I'm capable of being.

You're free to have whatever views you want on copyright - if you were writing songs 25 years ago then I guess you're part of the old guard that just doesn't understand (or want to admit) how things have changed and that the old copyright system is almost completely useless in today's world. Case in point - here we have a book that has been pretty much unavailable for the last 30 years, with no plans of re-printing, and the author is making NOTHING off of it, and according to him never even did in the first place. The point is that WHERE IS THE HARM IN COPYING? Nobody's losing a damn dime since none of us would be buying it anyway due to unavailability - and even those used copies that are floating around are being sold second-hand with no royalties etc. being passed on to _either_ the publisher or the author. But no, for some antiquated reasoning that only old folks like you seem to understand, nobody else on earth should be allowed access to the information in this book because some idiot publishing house has "rights" to it, whatever that means.

However it's clear you haven't spent any time looking at data on distribution models and copyright reform. All that extremely tight copyright restrictions do is jack up the profits for publishers, record labels, and distribution channels. It's a well-known fact that recording artists make practically nothing off of album sales due to the heavy hands of the record labels, managers, etc. but instead make the bulk of their money through touring and merchandising. If this IS the case, would it not make more sense to let the music be either freely or very cheaply available, to promote an audience to come and see the shows and buy the schwag? There is a reason that many bands that CAN get out from under their labels' thumb, like Radiohead, and many independent artists have turned to such a strategy. It's got the record labels pissed right off because this truly IS eroding their profits, unlike music downloading in general. Me downloading an album isn't taking money away from anyone because it's not something i was going to buy anyway at $20 per CD. Make them cheaper, then I'll buy. There's no way something that costs 20¢ to stamp out should cost me $20 in store with maybe $1-2 at most going to the artist and everything else being lost in between. It's no wonder such a top-heavy business model is crumbling and I'm glad to see it happen - my generation is finally calling bulls:censored:t on the older generations' greed and business tyranny. Maybe artists can finally start making the money they should instead of handing 90% over to all the in-between bureaucracy. The only artists I've seen come out in very strong support of restrictive copyright are the ones who are slipping into obscurity and are scratching and clawing to protect years-old royalties rather than getting their asses in gear and producing stuff that people want to buy. 



Old Cane said:


> Bob, the point is, *it ain't you or anyone else on this thread*, is it? *I don't care* who it is. You mention in a reply it's not the author, it's _someone else_, whoever that is. The author must have either sold or signed away his rights. *I don't care*. This property is legally owned by someone and someone with no claim to it tried to copy it and give it away. That is clearly theft as it is with any book or recording or painting. Unless the owner, usually the author but not in this case, has given permission for it to be copied and distributed. Maybe where you live you don't mind people stealing your property or maybe it's not against the law. *I don't know* and *I don't care*. It is where I live and I'm glad.
> 
> Some people have trouble understanding that a published work (ideas contained within) is *property*. Are there really tree huggers on this site that think all ideas put into a published form should be shared freely and no one should own them? What incentive would there be to create art if it's a _sure thing _that you will starve?



Well first of all for not knowing and not caring all that much, you sure felt the need to come to a new forum, dredge up a near-year-old thread and troll everyone and bi7ch them out for a situation that's long been resolved and put to rest. I SAID FROM THE OUTSET that if I ever received any correspondence or request from either the author or the publisher I would gladly cease-and-desist and remove all copies. AT THE TIME I DID IT, I was under the understanding that Canadian copyright law only extended out for 25 years if the work had not been reprinted. THIS WAS MISTAKEN since it's actually something like 50 years. Which brings me to a counterpoint to your second paragraph - No, I don't think everything should be freely available. But I strongly support copyright reform to drop IP rights, patent rights, and copyrights down to maybe 10 years at the MOST. This WOULD foster further creativity, since artists/authors/inventors would no longer be free to develop one album/book/invention, charge an ungodly amount for it, and sit on their laurels for the next 70 years on the royalties. They would have to keep working and developing new things to keep the money flowing. Copyright law that is extremely strict and extends out almost indefinitely with very severe penalties only serves to stifle creativity and culture in general. Studies have been done and this is where the data points, but of course it's anathema to big business' power structure, and guess who it is that buys off the lawmakers? It ain't the artists.


----------



## Coalsmoke

Brad, don't sweat the petty stuff. With any luck that will be the last we'll hear of him and his glass house he must live in.


----------



## mtngun

rarefish383 said:


> I would really like to read this book, I might break down and by a copy for 90 bucks.


Believe me, it's not worth $90. It's 30 year old technology. Malloff does offer a couple of of worthwhile mods for the Granberg mill, otherwise, anything Malloff does in that book, the people on this forum can do better.


----------



## ray benson

rarefish383 said:


> Sorry guys, I skipped from the first page or so to here also. Not being totally up on the facts, just what I see on the surface, I gotta run with old cane. I would really like to read this book, I might break down and by a copy for 90 bucks. After I read it I'll be happy to pass it around, Joe.



Try your local library.


----------



## Brmorgan

Coalsmoke said:


> Brad, don't sweat the petty stuff. With any luck that will be the last we'll hear of him and his glass house he must live in.



Heh, I'm not losing any sleep over it. I just can't imagine the audacity of first-off outright admitting that you haven't bothered to inform yourself on an issue, and then proceeding to, as Bob put it, pontificate on said issue and tell everyone else they're wrong, or even worse, criminals! 

It reminds me of a couple weeks ago, when a friend's kid came up to my cousin who was working on something or other at church and said, "Tell me what you're doing, so I can tell you if you're doing it right or not." Excuse me? And the irony is that I've heard the parents say that said child complains about not having many friends at school. Wonder why.


----------



## huskyhank

mtngun said:


> Believe me, it's not worth $90. It's 30 year old technology. Malloff does offer a couple of of worthwhile mods for the Granberg mill, otherwise, anything Malloff does in that book, the people on this forum can do better.



I've had the book for years since it came out. Its still got some value but there is little to nothing in it that is not here on this forum. And there is more here than is in that book. But books are nice to have and its worthwhile. If the price is too high the library can help you out.

Now, on the part about the legality of copyright -- y'all might as well get over it. Someone OWNS the right to that work whether you like it or not. When you make a copy of it to sell or give to others YOU ARE BREAKING THE LAW. It truly is that simple. Get over it.


----------



## BobL

Old Cane said:


> Maybe where you live you don't mind people stealing your property or maybe it's not against the law. I don't know and I don't care. It is where I live and I'm glad.



Still pontificating I see.
Can you point out to me where I wrote I was against the principle of copyright?
I have had IP stolen off me and am generally sympathetic to the principle of copyright.

Copyright maybe law but I personally don't give a fig about any laws, especially those made by lawyers, I care about justice. Most copyright law is a lawyers wet dream that gives scant regard to the IP owner and is designed to fill their lawyers bank accounts and those of big business. 

If you actually read the thread again you will see that Mr Malloff was completely screwed during the publishing of this book. He made nothing out of the deal, in fact he lost thousands and my sympathies lay with him and not the high and mighty US copyright laws. 

Anyway I have read the book from cover to cover and got several good ideas from it, but like mntgun says, it's race has run, the stuff on this site now supersedes it by an order of magnitude.


----------



## Brmorgan

BobL said:


> Still pontificating I see.
> Can you point out to me where I wrote I was against the principle of copyright?
> I have had IP stolen off me and am generally sympathetic to the principle of copyright.
> 
> *Copyright maybe law but I personally don't give a fig about any laws, especially those made by lawyers, I care about justice. Most copyright law is a lawyers wet dream that gives scant regard to the IP owner and is designed to fill their lawyers bank accounts and those of big business. *



Well I don't think I could sum up the way I feel about things much better than that. There are a lot of laws - especially ridiculous copyright laws, but also things like speed limits - that I don't have much respect for in general and wouldn't think twice about breaking except for the penalties associated with doing so. Just because a bunch of lobbyists can buy a bunch of politicians and lawyers to get the books cooked to suit their will does not mean that such laws are just or fair to the general populace, and it definitely doesn't mean that I'm obligated to respect the fundamentals of such laws, just that I'm supposed to obey them. Copyright has its place for situations like what happens in Southeast Asia, where you have massive open markets filled with pirated copies of software and movies for sale right alongside the real thing, often looking just like the real thing. This DOES impact the original copyright owner. People downloading a program or movie here and there do not have a significant impact, though they'd like you to think so.


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## BobL

Copyright doesn't always reward skilled artistry it rewards a lucky few - it's more of a lottery than reward for artistic justice, but that's the popular music business full stop.

I know a guy who couldn't write a full song to save himself, but he put together a jingle 20 years ago (he says it took him 5 minutes) that became widely used for several commercials and he still makes money out of it. Contrast that with the thousands of talented musicians who make nothing instead fork out millions to keep greedy recording companies in the style to which they have become accustomed. I see no justice here.

There has to be a better way to get IP justice but while the lawyers are in charge it won't change.


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## stonykill

I was enjoying this until the America bashing. Now I lost all interest in it. I'll just unsubscribe to the thread now. Too bad, it was interesting.


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## aglindh

*Chainsaw Lumbermaking PDF*

If you want a copy, look around on the web, try the book download sites. One that has it today is gigle.ws. But these are offshore outlaw sites, and they come and go.
If your conscience bothers you, go to Will's site on LinkedIn, ask him for an address where you can send him a $20 bill, to help make up for the thousands of dollars he lost on publishing this book, to which he no longer owns the rights.
If you want to read more about Will and Beth Erickson, get a copy of "Inside Passage: Living With Killer Whales, Bald Eagles, and Kwakiutl Indians" by Michael Modzelewski -- the title should be the Will Malloff story, it's a good read.


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## huskyhank

You can buy the book used at amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Chainsaw-Lumbermaking-Will-Malloff/dp/0918804124


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## nanuk

and I love to read these older threads that are brought back to life....

I gotta say to "Old Cane" that if find it very interesting that it's not about the music! Or about the ideas...

it's about *MONEY*


and that is sad.... lots of artists busk their balls every day for coin.. and love it! Cause to them the important thing is the message and the music...

then I hear a fellow like Old Cane pulling a BONO! 

when the *artists* become *business* persons, I quit listening!


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## thenne1713

Brmorgan said:


> A recent thread here regarding loaning this book out finally got me to dig out my copy and scanner and start scanning all the pages to create a PDF of the whole book. It's something I've been wanting to do for a while now, and since joining this site back in the spring I've been surprised at the demand that's out there for it, not to mention the price it commands. Being as it's no longer in print, and since new copies are next to impossible to find since only something like 20,000 were printed to begin with, I don't think I'm doing any harm by copying the book into PDF form. I started out tonight and managed to do up the first 3 chapters in about 3 hours. Most of that was spent rotating and cropping the images, and then finding my copy of Acrobat and figuring out how to use it all over again. It's been a while. I only had Acrobat 6, but I'm going to grab a copy of 8 so that I can run text recognition and index it so it's searchable too. So without further ado, here is:
> So what ever happeneded to the PDF files? LINK no longer works
> **UPDATED***Chainsaw Lumbermaking Chapters 1-7*
> 
> That now comprises about 750 of the slightly over 200 pages, and the rest will go quicker now that I have a system worked out. The file I posted came in at about 5.6 MB, the original uncompressed one was 111MB. I will be keeping full-resolution master copies if anyone ever wants one, but I will also keep playing with settings to get the regular filesize down as much as possible. Also on that note, I only have 10MB of webspace where I put it for now, and I don't really have anything anywhere else. So if anyone has some space where they can throw it and/or subsequent files, or if it's possible to put it up here somewhere, please let me know, or just download and re-post it.
> 
> I'll post additional chapters as I get them done, and once the whole book is done including covers etc. I will create a single master file and put it up on BitTorrent and Rapidshare. I'm glad, this is turning out to be not nearly as difficult as I thought it would, though still quite time consuming.
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> 
> EDIT: Don't know WTF happened with that last page there, I'll fix it and re-upload the file tomorrow. I'll post when it's fixed. *FIXED.*


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## thenne1713

So what ever happened to the PDF files? LINK no longer works


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## kimosawboy

You can go here and download then open with Adobe
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/optimising-an-090-for-milling.239232/#post-4392915


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## thenne1713

thenne1713 said:


> So what ever happened to the PDF files? LINK no longer works


So, the Arborist site (LINK in previous message) now takes you to the SCRIBD.com webpage to download for $8.95, a deal at this price for a nice PDF THANKS. More than thankful that so easily available at a reasonable price.


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## aglindh

Just got a note from Will Malloff, he says:
"The second reprint of CSLM will be out in the spring of 2015 
by Echo Point Books."

He also provides an address,
Will Malloff
P.O. Box 541 
ALERT Bay, B.C. V0N 1A0 

So if like me you feel bad that you have profited from his work, while he did not,
then you too could mail him off a $20.


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## tntblaster14

I tried emailing Echo Point Books and the email bounced back as invalid. Was hoping to find out more about this printing.


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## Yaxyakalagalis

Just thought I'd share... http://www.echopointbooks.com/product/chainsaw-lumbermaking/ 39.95 for the softcover/49.95 for the hardcover


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## ArcticOverland

I just spoke with Echopoint Books to confirm this book is in stock. Very helpful and seem like good folks to deal with!


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## hacksaw11111

Can someone send this to me? thx


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## Delphy

Searched for it, and came acrosd this at scripd - available as free ebook - but obviously this shouldn’t prevent wiring 20$ for Will...

https://www.scribd.com/mobile/document/79709819/Chainsaw-Lumber-Making


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## BobL

Will Malloff passed away in July 2015.


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## Delphy

BobL said:


> Will Malloff passed away in July 2015.


Sorry to hear this. Being new to this activity, I’m unfamiliar with the whos-who in this business. I will enjoy his writing, though.


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## donh

Could someone PM me a dl link to this book, I'm working on a chainsaw mill build and I would love to read this masterpiece before I finish the mill and start sawing lumber.

Thanks


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## kimosawboy

PM sent


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## Antarctica

You can buy the book for 30 bucks on Amazon...


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