# Norwood sharpener manual and blade question



## hamish (Jun 10, 2011)

Evening.
Two fold tonight, I bought a used Norwood Manual sharpener and wondering if anybody might happen to have a manual for one they can share.

Secondly, been seeking out different bands and my lowest cost option is the Lenox Woodmaster C. The area rep from Lenox is recommending I use .35 versus .42 due to my band wheel diameter (18.75")..............any thoughts? (I dont need to spend $250 just to try em in .35 only to find out I should have stuck with the .42!).


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## deeker (Jun 10, 2011)

hamish said:


> Evening.
> Two fold tonight, I bought a used Norwood Manual sharpener and wondering if anybody might happen to have a manual for one they can share.
> 
> Secondly, been seeking out different bands and my lowest cost option is the Lenox Woodmaster C. The area rep from Lenox is recommending I use .35 versus .42 due to my band wheel diameter (18.75")..............any thoughts? (I dont need to spend $250 just to try em in .35 only to find out I should have stuck with the .42!).


 
I use Cook's supersharp exclusivley.

Don't know the thickness.

Rob will be along soon to help you with the sharpener, he helped me.

Kevin


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## hamish (Jun 10, 2011)

Kevin,
I looked at Cooks on your recomendation/experience..........I would need to sell my first born in order to pay for them. By the time I pay shipping, brokerage fees and taxes I would be paying about $46 per blade, and Goldlines are $39, MK Morse $26.11, and Lenox Woodmaster C $24.62.....(all incl shipping and taxes to my door)..........will have a write up about the MK Morse bands hopefully tomorrow as they will be ready for there second sharpening tomorrow.

Jeremy


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## VA-Sawyer (Jun 11, 2011)

.035 vs. .042 Blades

My first question would be, what kind of blade life are you getting from the .042's ? Do they break after a couple of sharpenings ? If so then you may want to try the .035's. If they can be sharpened 5 or 6 times before failure then I would say stick with the thicker blades. 
Thinner blades can make more trips around the wheels, bending and unbending twice on each trip, before metal fatigue causes failure. I find that thicker blades stay sharp longer and tend to cut straighter. I don't get too excited about the difference of wood turned into sawdust by the thicker blades as the straighter cuts means less waste overall.
I find that with .035's on my WM the blades get too narrow from sharpenings before breaking. The .042's or .045's break about time that the front edge of the guide rollers are getting close to the set of the tips anyways. 

Did you get a setter to go with the sharpener ?

Rick


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## hamish (Jun 11, 2011)

Rick,

The MK Morse bands I am using are Quicksilver's which are a flexback, so far on my second sharpening, and learning how to use my sharpener. From using many bandsaws for both wood and metals I have experience with hardback blades but have only ever used them in much larger wheels, and on smaller saws it was nothing to break a blade using hard back blades, it was common, just a quick trip to the joining and poof off I went. 
The thickness of the blade has little importance to me as my mill is manual, and 7 thou is about one "c" hair.

My .042 blades have been run into the log posts, found every nail in the logs etc..... I am looking at them as training blades (5 of them), till I have issues and sharpening technique figured out.

I built my own setter and spend my evening after my little one has gone to bed verifying the set in each too with a dial caliper and am within 1 thou, so so far so good in that respect. I set before sharpening and then remove any burr before re-checking the set.

So basically I am debating using a hardback band on less than 19" band wheels..................

Jeremy


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## Sawyer Rob (Jun 11, 2011)

I've been useing 042's since 1996 on two different Lumbermates, and to this day i haven't broken a band.

Is this the std. sharpener or the Insustrial sharpener? If the std. model, the manual was included in the LM owners manual, at least it always was...

You do have an owners manual for your LM, don't you? Cuzz it's FULL of good info!

Rob


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## hamish (Jun 11, 2011)

Rob,

I have a 2 month old ML26 (when bought they have only sold a lil over 300 of them), and there is no mention of any sharpener in the manual. The sharpener is the std model bought used from another Norwood owner.

Are the bands you are using flexback or hardback? I wish to stick with .042 regardless.

Jeremy


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## VA-Sawyer (Jun 12, 2011)

I've only been running my WM since 2003, but can't say that I've seen any blades I would really call a hardback. The better quality blades like WM or 'Monkeys' that I have used are true alloy steels and not the simple 'carbon steels' that I think of as being "hardbacks". None the less, the point I was trying to make about selecting blade thickness, is use the thickest blades that don't show premature cracking problems on your mill the way you operate it. I have seen some sawyers that leave the blade running during the gig back. Others, like me, only run the blade when cutting. 
As I said before, the thicker blades seem to stay sharp longer and do less waving during the cuts. They seem to track straighter through knots as well. They do require a little more HP because of the wider kerf, but not all that much more. I set most of my blades at .019 to .021 to reduce cutting HP required. The harder the wood, the less set I use, same goes for dryer wood. I reduce the rake angle as well with harder woods. I change the rake more with change in hardness than I do the set. 
I also set first and then sharpen. I seldom recheck the set after shapening due to having to remove the burr. When sawing softer woods like Yellow Popular, I may sharpen twice between settings, and they will be full gullet passes. On very hard stuff like Black Locust or dry Hickory, I may touch up the edge 3 or 4 times between settings. It has to be sharp to track straight in hard stuff.
If I know what I will be cutting ahead of time, then I tend to customize the rake and set to the wood type. I also have 5 common setups I keep on hand for regular sawing. 
You said you have had a few mistakes while sawing, Hitting metal in the log or on the mill makes setting much tougher to do well. The teeth seem to have a 'memory' that they creep back to after setting. I will often set and sharpen a 'metaled' blade and then use it to open a log ( 4 or 5 cuts ) then will pull it back off the mill and check the set. It is pretty common to find a few previously dinged teeth have shifted 4 or 5 thousand out of place. Another setting after the short run seems to fix the problem.
I learned a lot about how blades cut, the importance of blade profile and hook angles after I started sharpening my own. There is a lot of bad info about the subject floating around in various forums. Theories are nice, but take time to do some test setups yourself using different sets and hook angles on the same log. Try setting a few at .017 or .035 and see what they do in a given log. Don't be suprised if they both seem to have some of the same symptoms of problems. It will be the differences in their problems that you can learn from. Then you can use that info to troubleshoot future cutting problems. 
Rick


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## TraditionalTool (Jun 12, 2011)

hamish said:


> Kevin,
> I looked at Cooks on your recomendation/experience..........I would need to sell my first born in order to pay for them. By the time I pay shipping, brokerage fees and taxes I would be paying about $46 per blade, and Goldlines are $39, MK Morse $26.11, and Lenox Woodmaster C $24.62.....(all incl shipping and taxes to my door)..........will have a write up about the MK Morse bands hopefully tomorrow as they will be ready for there second sharpening tomorrow.


Cooks runs their blades on sale all the time. I bought 20 blades when they were on sale, and with shipping the price was about $15/blade. Those are the SuperSharps at .042", 12' long (144"), 1 1/4" wide.

How long one uses them depends on the person, IMO. Seems to me that the people that have sharpeners/setters will not use them as long as folks that do not have them. If you can find someone in your area with a sharpener, it's more cost effective as you will not have to pay shipping. I have only used about 4 of my 20 blades. I found a guy local, so when I get about 15 I will take them to him or ship them local, as UPS doesn't cost that much for 100 miles.


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## Sawyer Rob (Jun 12, 2011)

hamish said:


> Rob,
> 
> I have a 2 month old ML26 (when bought they have only sold a lil over 300 of them), and there is no mention of any sharpener in the manual. The sharpener is the std model bought used from another Norwood owner.
> 
> ...


 
I've never looked at a ML26 manual, so i had no idea what was(sn't) in there... lol I thought you had a LM, anyway, i'd scan what you need, but my scanner took a dump, so i can't even do that! :msp_angry: Maybe a call to Norwood, would get you a manual?

I'm useing Norwood bands... Yes they are expensive, but they (the bands) have been good to me, and when i tried a couple others, they just didn't work as well for "an all around band". I use one band (brand/style) for everything i put on my mill, and i'm satisfied with how Norwood bands work for me.

Rob


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## hamish (Jun 12, 2011)

TraditionalTool said:


> Cooks runs their blades on sale all the time. I bought 20 blades when they were on sale, and with shipping the price was about $15/blade.
> I live in Canada and they only ship UPS which makes the cost of any blade more than double to get it here.How long one uses them depends on the person, IMO. Seems to me that the people that have sharpeners/setters will not use them as long as folks that do not have them. If you can find someone in your area with a sharpener, it's more cost effective as you will not have to pay shipping. I have only used about 4 of my 20 blades. I found a guy local, so when I get about 15 I will take them to him or ship them local, as UPS doesn't cost that much for 100 miles.



I already own a sharpener and setter.


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## TraditionalTool (Jun 12, 2011)

hamish said:


> I already own a sharpener and setter.


Well, you can sharpen your own then, so it shouldn't matter much. Buy some blades, use them, sharpen them, and use them again...seems pretty simple. I got about 15-20 blades when I bought my sawmill also, and those are all Norwood blades.

But in general, when the blade stops cutting easily, it's time to change/sharpen. I notice it starting to drop when I hit a knot as it dulls, so to prevent that you must start to baby the sawmill and push it slower. How long one does that can depend if they have a sharpener/setter.

The bottom line is that a dull blade will need to be replaced for the sawmill to cut good again. My $0.02...


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## hamish (Jun 12, 2011)

Its all about keeping costs down and trying different bands to see what works best for me, so far I have cut approx 5000bf and have been using one Norwood and 5 MK Morse bands. I have been cycling these 6 bands and have another 10 new Norwood and 5 new MK Morse ready and waiting. 

I bought my sharpener and made a setter out of necessity, it costs about $16 to have a band set and sharpened by a sharpening service here (they pick up at my shop and I pay 20% less than customers that leave there bands for pick up.......so for the average Joe if they can buy a band for $24 all in its cheaper than paying to have them sharpened by a service), so it becomes an issue of just buying new bands, or sharpening them myself, and learning the art of milling and sharpening.

So long as I dont hit any strange things with the band, I swap them out every hour of actual cutting time regardless, I have an hour meter mounted with a stop/start micro-switch on the throttle control.

If anybody has a LM manual and a scanner........I would be grateful for a copy of the sharpener manual.


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## hamish (Jun 14, 2011)

*Update*

Called Norwood, they were grateful enought to send me a partial manual, answered alot of questions I had about the doo-hikey thing a me bob that does this with the blade.....etc..............

Had been doing it all in one to two passes ie the tooth, hook, gullet et al............seem I should be separating the sharpening of certain sections of the blade, will give it a go!


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