# MS250: Response to mods, worth the effort?



## Beowulf (Nov 7, 2010)

I'm in the process of transitioning the saw stable into a set of more "pro" level saws. I like Husqvarna saws, but have a family friend out of state that keeps Stihl saws priced competitively and then some for me.

I just read through the recent 14+ page thread that focused a lot of energy on the theoretical switch design deficiencies of the MS250. I found it while looking for mod info on the MS250.

I guess I missed choke/switch control problem with mine. I seem to be able to operate the controls. :hmm3grin2orange:

I do think the air-filter on the saw is a POS; I need to keep a large rubber band around mine to keep the tabs tight enough to hold it on. The carb that came on mine has the H,L, and LA adjusts. However, it was also a POS Chinese carb that the fuel metering diaphram cover warped on, after a couple of tanks of gas. The saw developed the problem of consistent fuel starvation when it warmed up and the diaphragm cover warped enough to leak vacuum. 

Once I figured the carb problem out, I fixed it with a little rtv under the "high spot" on the diaphram cover and it has run like a new MS250, ever since. When I first acquired the saw, I was given a choice of saws as a very nice gift. I picked the MS250, based on Stihl's reputation, but did not really know enough about homeowner vs mid range vs pro saw quality to make a well informed decision at the time. I picked what I thought was the cheapest "good saw" to not break the bank of the generous giver. The MS250 came close to costing Stihl a customer for life because of the frustration with the irritating carb problem.

So, with all that said, I was looking at specs on the MS260 pro saw and having a hard time justifying swapping the reasonably well running MS250 out for it. The MS261 looks like it might be a little more interesting, with 3.75 hp vs. the MS250's 3.0. I also consider the 346xp a good potential replacement candidate, but am gradually getting won over with Stihl's pro saw quality and design features.

However, the budget would be happier (i.e. wife) if I just modded the MS250 and ran it for a couple more years, as the middle weight saw in the stable that I pickup for lighter bucking/limbing. 

My question: Has anyone here done more than just a muffler mod to an MS250, and was the overall effect worth the effort on this saw?

One of the videos in the previously mentioned thread showed the saw responding rather well to a muffler mod; what about port work? Or are we talking silk purse out of a sow's ear?

I envision the saw stable to be something like:

MS200T, climbing, limbing, etc.
MS250 modded or its replacement, limbing bigger stuff, some bucking
MS660 felling/bucking bigger stuff/maybe milling
PPT265, stuff you do with a pole saw

So the gap I want to fill is between the MS200T and soon to arrive MS660. I think the MS250 is most likely ok, and maybe with mods, would be great for my intended purposes. However, I'm really curious about its response to mods, before I spend a lot of time on it.

Your thoughts are appreciated!


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## brages (Nov 8, 2010)

I'd expect you might see some improvements with the muffler mod, but I can't think of any _other_ modifications that will really be worth the time/effort. The other big mod for more power is porting the cylinder, but:

(1) these saws are a pain to take apart (or so I hear... I haven't had one apart, but I did a ms290 -- also clamshell -- and it was a hassle)

(2) porting seems pretty daunting to me -- you could easily mess it up


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## nmurph (Nov 8, 2010)

i would mod the muffler and let that be it. if its still not what you need, then sell it. the 346/261 should fit nicely in you plan. 
there is nothing that prevents you from porting a clamshell. the basic widening of the exhaust and intake ports help every saw, the 250 is no exception. 
i have hundreds of hours on an 025 that has only needed a carb kit. they are tough and light weight, but it sounds like you have higher aspirations!!!


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## Zombiechopper (Nov 8, 2010)

I would port it. Widening intake and exhaust is always a good idea.


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## Beowulf (Nov 8, 2010)

Thanks for the input guys!


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## BloodOnTheIce (Nov 8, 2010)

I've modified plenty of 021/023/025 and their MS brethren. Here's what I've found works best. 

-Old mufflers breath better than newer ones. Get a muffler from an old 021, they had a large 9/16" x 7/16" square opening vs. the newer ones with a round 3/8" opening. 

-Get yourself the fully adjustable Walbro WT-215 carb, it's a older design and it flows fuel

-replace the air filter, just be careful with the tabs that secure it in place. 

-use the bigger Stihl fuel filter 0000 350 3504 it's designed for bigger saw but I run them in everything. 

-I use them as a trim saw mainly so I switch them all to 3/8" low profile chain and run 14" bars on them. 

A muffler moded, well tuned MS250 will surprise you. I love the stupid little saws and I have a constant supply of parts saws coming in the shop from tree companies.


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## ghostrider990 (Nov 25, 2010)

To the OP -

Keep us posted on what you end-up doing with your 250.

I'm in the same boat: bought the 250 about 3 years ago, and STILL love it, but it's kind of overshadowed by my newer 361 in almost every aspect. But I'm not looking to mess with my 361, YET.

I want to eek a bit more power out of the 250 without too much $$$ input.
I mostly limb with it, and some light bucking and felling of smaller trees around my property(s).

Probably will start with the MM, and see what that gets me.
I don't need another performance tuning "hobby" -- as my motorcycle and car keep my extra fund$ pretty well tied-up as it is!! 

still - this is a great site, and I'm diggin' all the info here! opcorn:
thks guys.

gr


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## wdfccf73 (Nov 25, 2010)

I have owned a 025 for 19 years. When I first bought it I wasn't impressed, but after I had it modded I have been super impressed with it. My dad owns a MS 250 that is about 4 years old. His is still factory set, I can cut two blocks to his one, cutting side by side.

Just a newbie's two cents.
Chris


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## ghostrider990 (Nov 26, 2010)

wdfccf73 said:


> I have owned a 025 for 19 years. When I first bought it I wasn't impressed, but after I had it modded I have been super impressed with it. My dad owns a MS 250 that is about 4 years old. His is still factory set, I can cut two blocks to his one, cutting side by side.
> 
> Just a newbie's two cents.
> Chris



So, are we talking MM or MM+ porting +++ on YOUR 025???

I'm running an 18" bar as well, and that's not going to change, since i JUST bought a replacement, and I have 3 good chains! :biggrinbounce2:

thks in advance.

gr


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## wyk (Nov 26, 2010)

I made a large port on the muffler on my MS250 - about 3/4" square and also removed the fin in the middle of the muffler exit port but left the screen, put the H at full turn out, file the rakers down on it's chain a tad lower than usual(it can be a touch grabby, but it doesn't have the power to make it too jerky), and use Amsoil at 50:1/60:1 ish depending on how lazy I am with the mix. It now literally digs through wood twice as fast as stock. It is only a bit quicker limbing, but with the bar buried, it is a totally different machine. Yes, you still have to baby it in any real wood, but far less so now. The vid you probably saw was mine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2quTjn_dH7A - is my newest. Go to 3:30. This is in very wet and dense birch, maybe about 7-8 inches wide. It's a couple inches more at 4:47. Near the end of the cut with the MS250, you can see the tiny bit of jerking it makes with the rakers a tad low. I then compare it to my MS361 which you can hear just start to 4 stroke as I rev it before I put it into the wood. No, the MS250 has nothing on the 260/261, let alone a muffler modded 361, but for $290 at my local dealer, it does well. Still, I woulda preferred a 450 or a 5100s instead  This saw belongs to the ranch owner, so I baby it most of the time I use it. And, I really only use it to limb stuff that's sitting up high. My 361 sees 99% of the work around here with a saw.

WYK


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## buck futter (Nov 26, 2010)

http://www.youtube.com/user/flyindlyin?feature=mhum#p/u/20/tZUBvalpY_k


This was a 025 I had a while ago, I messed around and joked that it was a 460
my son was running the throttle. I had muffler modded this and worked the carb over, I never ported it or advanced the ignition but I would try the ignition first, I think they are nice littler saws for the size and price point 

d


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## buck futter (Nov 27, 2010)

oh btw WYK you will see a little better cut time by not sawing through the cut. It makes it so you end up cutting more wood. hope this helps

D


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## wdfccf73 (Nov 27, 2010)

ghostrider990 said:


> So, are we talking MM or MM+ porting +++ on YOUR 025???
> 
> I'm running an 18" bar as well, and that's not going to change, since i JUST bought a replacement, and I have 3 good chains! :biggrinbounce2:
> 
> ...



I had a local Stihl mechanic put it on a tach. He turned it up from 10,500 rpm stock, to 12,500 rpm, WOT, No Load. I haven't MM it or anything else. Just having it turned up has made a huge difference, in my opinion. Seeing how it cuts compared to my dad's saw anyway is a pretty good indication.

Unfortunately the guy no longer works on saws, I want my MS 310 done now.
Thanks, Chris


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## indiansprings (Nov 27, 2010)

I would do what was suggested and just MM the saw and tune it after MM'd it. You'll prolly notice a little pick up. I noticed you've got the lust for a 660, if you haven't run one I'd suggest finding someone that will let you use one all day. It's a heck of a jump, if a guy dosen't use them in big wood consistently most are disappointed in the performance as they aren't noticeably faster in small/medium wood. Mine is my least used saw I own and we use them in a commercial setting. Unless you just want the biggest baddest you ought to try a 441-uses a heck of a lot less gas. I'm becoming a big fan of the idea of a 70cc and 50cc saw plan. A 346xp or the new 261 Stihl (based on Brad's review) will make a 250 look sick. I bought a 250 when they first came out and traded it off in a week, dealer sold it too me telling me it would out cut a 028 wood boss, it wouldn't even come close, traded it in on a 361, best thing I could have ever done.


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## wyk (Nov 27, 2010)

buck futter said:


> oh btw WYK you will see a little better cut time by not sawing through the cut. It makes it so you end up cutting more wood. hope this helps
> 
> D



Eh, I don't notice a difference with the 250. It feels better to me to saw through it as well, and I am actually putting a good amount of torque on the bar when I do so with the 361, so sometimes it cuts faster with the 361. In fact, the fastest way to cut a large piece with the 361 is to jam the dogs into the wood and just turn the saw around the dogs in one motion. But that's a difficult thing to do most of the time. IN soft woods, you can put a lot of pressure on the bar while you cut, and it speeds up the cut quite a bit. 95% of the wood I cut is soft pine.

Since this vid I have tuned the 361 to run a tad less rich, adding a bit more power. I also managed to get slightly more top end on the 250 with a fuel change and some minor tuning. I'll have vids up when the dogs come in for the 361. I have a few more 20-24" logs that are in season by now.

I hear a lot of talk about 50-70 set ups. If I had some hard wood around here to cut more often, I might go with more displacement. But at around 13-14lbs overall for this MS361, I don't even see a reason for a 50cc. I can carry and use the MS361 all day long without hardly feeling it, and often do. I'm sure my mind will change as I age, tho.

WYK


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## buck futter (Nov 27, 2010)

wdfccf73 said:


> I had a local Stihl mechanic put it on a tach. He turned it up from 10,500 rpm stock, to 12,500 rpm, WOT, No Load. I haven't MM it or anything else. Just having it turned up has made a huge difference, in my opinion. Seeing how it cuts compared to my dad's saw anyway is a pretty good indication.
> 
> Unfortunately the guy no longer works on saws, I want my MS 310 done now.
> Thanks, Chris



i think the max for that saw is 14000

i know mine was a lil above that


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## andrethegiant70 (Nov 27, 2010)

I've ported an 025 with very good results. It was an early attempt, I just widened the intake and exhaust with no timing changes. I did the accompanying muffler mod. That little fellow sings! Compression clearly went up and throttle response was greatly improved. All in all, the stock 025 is fairly lackluster but this mod really made the saw a LOT more fun to run.

I also recommend the wt215. There were several carbs on this series and I've had the best luck with this one.


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## wdfccf73 (Nov 27, 2010)

buck futter said:


> i think the max for that saw is 14000
> 
> i know mine was a lil above that



Are you talking about the MAX for my 025 or the 310?
I would like to know what the max is for my MS310? If you have that information. Is that in the owner's manual? I didn't think it was, but I may have missed it.
Thanks, Chris


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