# 2 hand on the chainsaw at all times when cutting.



## irish93stang (Sep 5, 2009)

:chainsawguy:ANSI rule... how many of you actually follow this with a light top handle chainsaw never mind a bigger saw chunkin wood. I know for a fact that I do not.. especially when stackin brush out of the bucket.


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## pdqdl (Sep 5, 2009)

Always! I have never been known to run a top handled saw with only one hand.









Unless it wasn't convenient.


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## pdqdl (Sep 5, 2009)

On the other hand, I have good reasons to use two (most of the time).


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## irish93stang (Sep 5, 2009)

good point!! chainsaw injury?


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## TDunk (Sep 5, 2009)

If the situation i'm in permits me to have both hands on the saw, then yes. But otherwise nope.


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## pdqdl (Sep 5, 2009)

No, sadly, I don't get hurt on the job. I do that in my spare time. If I had done it on the job, I would have at least gotten some disability from the injury. As it is, it really doesn't bother me. I tell pretty much everyone that inquires that you really don't need that thumb as much as you think you do.

And yes, I do run the 200T (and other top-handles) with just one hand. Horizontal cuts to the right are pretty much out of the question, though. As you might expect, I use two hands about 3/4ths of the time. Simple trim cuts, I zip off with one hand. Occasionally, reaching out or around, I cut horizontally to the left, too. As you might expect, the right hand does not have as good control as a "fully handed" user might expect, so I compensate by being extra careful against kickback and slipping. Oddly, I can't run a 200t one-handed with my left hand. It's useless for that.

I got caught in a wood planer; careless, caught the tip of my thumb. It wanted more, and sucked in my hand until it plugged it up. I was making planks at the in-laws to build a really neat sandbox for my kids. 

In fact, the sandbox turned out real well: an octagon around our pin oak, there were flip-out cover sections that made it look like an eight point star when it was opened up to play in. When opened up, the covers were a neat wood ramp into the play zone.


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## irish93stang (Sep 5, 2009)

dammmn that doesnt sound like a good time at all!!! well at least the sand box came out good


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## Nailsbeats (Sep 5, 2009)

I cut how I want to cut, not how somebody is telling me to cut. My life is on the line up there, I know it, and work accordingly. So yeah, I one hand when I want to.


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## irish93stang (Sep 5, 2009)

ya i agree nails... we got a new safety guy and hes comin down on us hard...but he has never run a saw in his life


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## Rickytree (Sep 5, 2009)

That's a problem in Canada also. Pencil pushers trying to tell the working man how to do.


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## Tree Pig (Sep 5, 2009)

The problem in my eyes that todays top handle saws are so well made and so balanced that sometimes it may even be safer to cut with one hand, while using the other to stablise yourself. So I guess my answer is yes I will cut with one hand when I have too.


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## TreeClimber57 (Sep 5, 2009)

Virtually all the time, two hands on any saw. However, I will admit I have run top handled saws with one hand occasionally, but only occasionally and then am always very aware of the additional risks involved..


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## fishercat (Sep 5, 2009)

*rarely do i use two hands.*

at least i know one ANSI rule now.they don't pay my bills so they can pound sand.


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## BC WetCoast (Sep 5, 2009)

Here's the challenge, if you hurt yourself and you are one handing, will your Worker's Compensation insurance provider pay out, given you are working against proper operating practice?


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## chemist (Sep 5, 2009)

BC WetCoast said:


> Here's the challenge, if you hurt yourself and you are one handing, will your Worker's Compensation insurance provider pay out, given you are working against proper operating practice?



only if you confessed!


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## lego1970 (Sep 5, 2009)

Pdqdl, Ouch! 

Most the time I try to use both hands but sometimes use one hand if I think the other would be better for useing as balance by holding on to another branch. So it just depends but mostly I try to disipline myself to use both hands. Once a nieghbor walked over and asked if I could cut down a limb out of his Silver Maple. I had been drinking and had a pretty good buzz but not overly drunk at the moment so I said sure and went over to house, climbed up and cut the branch off. To further my use of poor judgement I used one hand on the saw and somehow placed my other hand in the cutting path. Somehow I ended up tearing off my middle fingernail and leaving a little gash on my middle finger. Luckily I was buzzed enough not to feel it too bad, and when I got back down we drank some more so it didn't ruin my night other then feeling pretty stupid. Since then I have made it a personaly policy not to drink and climb. Never did figure out how I put my finger in the saw path


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## treemandan (Sep 5, 2009)

Its such a broad sweeping statement. Is it possible to make every cut with both hands on a climbing saw while in the tree? I suppose so but its not realistic. Just think before you cut " where is the saw going to end up?" 
personally, I think hand saws are more dangerous but it seems there isn't much evidence to support that.


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## Nailsbeats (Sep 5, 2009)

lego1970 said:


> Pdqdl, Ouch!
> 
> Most the time I try to use both hands but sometimes use one hand if I think the other would be better for useing as balance by holding on to another branch. So it just depends but mostly I try to disipline myself to use both hands. Once a nieghbor walked over and asked if I could cut down a limb out of his Silver Maple. I had been drinking and had a pretty good buzz but not overly drunk at the moment so I said sure and went over to house, climbed up and cut the branch off. To further my use of poor judgement I used one hand on the saw and somehow placed my other hand in the cutting path. Somehow I ended up tearing off my middle fingernail and leaving a little gash on my middle finger. Luckily I was buzzed enough not to feel it too bad, and when I got back down we drank some more so it didn't ruin my night other then feeling pretty stupid. Since then I have made it a personaly policy not to drink and climb. Never did figure out how I put my finger in the saw path



Never drink and climb? Is this an ANSI standard too?


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## TreEmergencyB (Sep 5, 2009)

treemandan said:


> Its such a broad sweeping statement. Is it possible to make every cut with both hands on a climbing saw while in the tree? I suppose so but its not realistic. Just think before you cut " where is the saw going to end up?"
> personally, I think hand saws are more dangerous but it seems there isn't much evidence to support that.



alot of people take the handsaw for granted idk what you guys use but my zubat cuts everything including rope in one swipe if tight i seen a youtube video on it silky vs rope i think it was called, that dam thing catch in in the hand or leg too bleed like crazy not a very clean cut either.

although i think chain saws are a bit more on the dangorous side


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## Bermie (Sep 5, 2009)

treemandan said:


> Its such a broad sweeping statement. Is it possible to make every cut with both hands on a climbing saw while in the tree? I suppose so but its not realistic. Just think before you cut " where is the saw going to end up?"
> personally, I think hand saws are more dangerous but it seems there isn't much evidence to support that.



I agree with you...

That's the most important thing to consider when deciding to cut one handed...where will the saw go...and I might add where will the bit of wood go?

I know my hand saw has been more dangerous to me...fingers, forearms, shins, all of them carry that distinctive zig zag pattern of Silky holes!! But at least the damage is only temporary, not a full strength follow through...now that could rival a chainsaw cut for sure in some instances!

How about switch handing a saw? I had to do it quite a bit the other day...


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## lego1970 (Sep 5, 2009)

Nailsbeats said:


> Never drink and climb? Is this an ANSI standard too?




Good question! If ANSI needs to do a study about the effects of drinking and climbing, I might apply. I'll change my personal policy from "no drinking and climbing" to "no one handing a saw while drunk"


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## treemandan (Sep 5, 2009)

Bermie said:


> I agree with you...
> 
> That's the most important thing to consider when deciding to cut one handed...where will the saw go...and I might add where will the bit of wood go?
> 
> ...



well maybe not as dangerous as a hand saw. I think the injuries aren't as severe with a hand saw but probably pretty numerous. I don't have a hand saw, I lost it. I use it for shrubbery and it must have been kicked into some leaves or something. I only take the chain saw up with me. I don't like usiing hand saws in the tree, its to hard, way to hard and I am sure if I did I would have a lot more preforations than I do now.


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## TreEmergencyB (Sep 5, 2009)

treemandan said:


> well maybe not as dangerous as a hand saw. I think the injuries aren't as severe with a hand saw but probably pretty numerous. I don't have a hand saw, I lost it. I use it for shrubbery and it must have been kicked into some leaves or something. I only take the chain saw up with me. I don't like usiing hand saws in the tree, its to hard, way to hard and I am sure if I did I would have a lot more preforations than I do now.



climb with no handsaw, not another one do you go fishing with no knife? i always have my handsaw just incase even if im doing a removal where i would never even need it its there, if you ever gotta cut yourself free and one arm stuck, pinched, or gone you cant start the 200t with one hand..........or can u i never tried.....


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## blueatlascedar (Sep 5, 2009)

irish93stang said:


> :chainsawguy:ANSI rule... how many of you actually follow this with a light top handle chainsaw never mind a bigger saw chunkin wood. I know for a fact that I do not.. especially when stackin brush out of the bucket.



I honestly use one handed cuts in the tree more than I do with both hands. Seems the other hand is usually pushing a chunk, or pushing a lead while cutting, etc.


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## Bermie (Sep 5, 2009)

treemandan said:


> well maybe not as dangerous as a hand saw. I think the injuries aren't as severe with a hand saw but probably pretty numerous. I don't have a hand saw, I lost it. I use it for shrubbery and it must have been kicked into some leaves or something. I only take the chain saw up with me. I don't like usiing hand saws in the tree, its to hard, way to hard and I am sure if I did I would have a lot more preforations than I do now.



Wow, no handsaw? 
A good silky handsaw is like a third hand, and can cut so much more precisely on smaller branches than the 200...I feel naked without my silky...
Bashing around a tree with the 200 for just a prune is guaranteed to raise my blood pressure.


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## lego1970 (Sep 5, 2009)

I love a handsaw for cutting suckers out of my way, but I know a guy that just doesn't like useing one and he's a pretty quick climber. Everybody kinda has there own way of doing things.


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## treemandan (Sep 5, 2009)

lego1970 said:


> I love a handsaw for cutting suckers out of my way, but I know a guy that just doesn't like useing one and he's a pretty quick climber. Everybody kinda has there own way of doing things.



I use my teeth... well what's left of them.


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## treemandan (Sep 5, 2009)

TreEmergencyB said:


> climb with no handsaw, not another one do you go fishing with no knife? i always have my handsaw just incase even if im doing a removal where i would never even need it its there, if you ever gotta cut yourself free and one arm stuck, pinched, or gone you cant start the 200t with one hand..........or can u i never tried.....



what if, what if, what if. By the way, I live about 10 miles from a nuclear power plant.


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## arborist (Sep 5, 2009)

*most climbers use a stihl 200t.the results: one handing.*

most climbers use a stihl 200t.therefor most climbers cut one handing while aloft.that saw is not designed to be held comfortably with both hands.Its handle is improperly placed and the saw is balanced in such a way to encourage the use of only one hand.
like it,love it,hate it matters not.acknowledge it at least to remain safe.

yeah,all top handle saw's are easy to use with just one hand.I'm just saying the most common saw used, is more apt to be used improperly.(yes lol,like it or not,one handing a chain saw is improperly using the tool.it truly is not safe.not claiming to never do it however.)


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## treemandan (Sep 5, 2009)

Bermie said:


> Wow, no handsaw?
> A good silky handsaw is like a third hand, and can cut so much more precisely on smaller branches than the 200...I feel naked without my silky...
> Bashing around a tree with the 200 for just a prune is guaranteed to raise my blood pressure.



You have seen my prune jobs. Does it look like I am doing a lot of undo bashing?


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## Tree Pig (Sep 5, 2009)

blueatlascedar said:


> I honestly use one handed cuts in the tree more than I do with both hands. Seems the other hand is usually pushing a chunk, or pushing a lead while cutting, etc.



:agree2: Thats pretty much was my point in saying sometimes its safer one handing with a good top handle


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## derwoodii (Sep 5, 2009)

Odd one out here, not for my higher than thou OH&S just never liked top handles even in trees. I started with 020 but found a 024 or later the 026 better for me aloft. Slung though the rear handle off me harness they would pull easyer through limbs n snags and sort most jobs from top to bottom without any fuss. I could cut and hold or with log wood double cut and snap so when shown top handles just shrugged and left em to small and buzzie for me.
Interesting picture stats if to believed show high left hand injury's so... Keep both hands on ya tool at all times.


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## m.green (Sep 5, 2009)

The company I work for doesn't allow one handed cutting at all. But when you are up in the bucket over a road with traffic without flaggers (yeah I know, you are probably asking why not hire some. The company is cheap) you need to hold the limb, cut it and then either swing it to the side of the road or move your boom till the limbs out of the way and then drop it. 

When clearing powerlines it's near impossible to cut with two hands 100% of the time


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## clearance (Sep 5, 2009)

I wish I had a tail like a monkey, but I don't, so, yeah, of course.:deadhorse:


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## treevet (Sep 5, 2009)

Bermie said:


> Wow, no handsaw?
> A good silky handsaw is like a third hand, and can cut so much more precisely on smaller branches than the 200...I feel naked without my silky...
> Bashing around a tree with the 200 for just a prune is guaranteed to raise my blood pressure.



Plenty of proper NTP cuts can be made with the 200/20. When they get real small a handsaw is in order but can also be accomplished with the 200 (very sharp one) in an upward motion to finish. There is some degree of danger in handsaw use as well, esp. pull oriented teeth handsaws.

I use a handsaw and have for my decades long career but have not been able to make myself buy a "Silky" ("me and my Silky" threads) just because....well....it sounds kinda gay. :biggrinbounce2:

I think that chart posted by the Ozzie is likely both HO's and pros.


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## arborist (Sep 5, 2009)

treevet said:


> not been able to make myself buy a "Silky" ("me and my Silky" threads) just because....well....it sounds kinda gay. :biggrinbounce2:



LMAO!
ok,Iv never thought about that one before,but yeah once pointed out that doesn't sound like a manly saw does it lol.


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## treevet (Sep 6, 2009)

arborist said:


> LMAO!
> ok,Iv never thought about that one before,but yeah once pointed out that doesn't sound like a manly saw does it lol.



"Want me to send up the mansaw, I mean chainsaw bawss?"

"No thankths thon, I'll uth my thilky":greenchainsaw:


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## senechal (Sep 6, 2009)

I'm sure there's a situation that will come about where I'll be forced to think long and hard about taking one hand off the saw, but since I committed to kick the habit 2 years ago it hasn't happened. If I can't find a better work position for the cut or take it with the handsaw, then let's rig big. I've watched plenty of better arborists than me juggle a big piece and a saw with a finger on the trigger/no chainbrake and if that makes perfect sense to you as an operator, good for you. 
I love getting that look of shock from people assuming I haven't discovered how to take my hand off the front handle and use it like a weapon.


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## BlackenedTimber (Sep 6, 2009)

If there is one AS member on here that HONESTLY uses both hands AT ALL TIMES while aloft, I will buy you a case of beer, your choice, and fedex it to you, on ice, in a brand new igloo cooler.

I'm not gonna lie, I wield the 200 one-handed all the time, when the situation calls for it. 

I got bit too, left index finger, while piecing out a large white birch up in the bucket. Limb in the left hand, saw in the right. After the cut, the limb pulled my left hand into the tip of the bar as the saw was decellerating (the limb was heavier than I thought...) and I cut myself good. I can still count to ten, though.


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## outofmytree (Sep 6, 2009)

treemandan said:


> Its such a broad sweeping statement. Is it possible to make every cut with both hands on a climbing saw while in the tree? I suppose so but its not realistic. Just think before you cut " where is the saw going to end up?"
> personally, I think hand saws are more dangerous but it seems there isn't much evidence to support that.




This is a smart answer. Who are you and what have you done with TheDan??

I was taught and teach my guys to keep both hands on the 200t. Occasionally I find myself breaking the rule where I feel that is the safest option to achieve the job.

Rear handle saws are a different matter. Its 2 hands or walk home.

And don't get me started on Silkys. I have cut myself more times sheathing that damn Zubat than I can count. Its almost as though they have a finger seeking function...


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## ozzy42 (Sep 6, 2009)

Nailsbeats said:


> Never drink and climb? Is this an ANSI standard too?



Of course those who drink while climbing use the saw one handed.
Unless this is your brain bucket http://www.after5catalog.com/beer-hat-p-802.html


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## treevet (Sep 6, 2009)

you just gotta know in all worst case scenarios where the bar may go in relation to your body and correct your positioning (of bar and or self) if the possibility exists for contact during or after a cut. If there is any chance of the "kick back quadrant" making contact on another branch etc, then it is time to 2 hand. Furthermore the plane of the bar should be positioned or, again, your body to avoid an accident if it occurs. The bar will kickback in line with the plane of the bar. Kickback can occur INSIDE the cut too by pinching in the kickback quadrant and cause an accident.

If someone can honestly say they do tree work full time to pay all their bills and they have never one handed a chainsaw, then they probably have trouble gassing up the 83 Toyota Corolla when it is running low.

I have made millions of dollars doing tree work with just myself and a gm over the years and I one hand all day. Sometimes I even one hand my 090 or 880 on a cut I call the slide cut for big wood chunks.


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## Blakesmaster (Sep 6, 2009)

When I'm in the bucket I one hand all the time. Grab, cut, throw. Grab, cut, throw. Even on bigger wood I'm cutting with a rear handle. One hand on the chunk, one on the saw. I usually try to keep the saw below the bucket rim in that case though. When climbing I still one hand though not quite as much because I tend to rope more and don't need to hold the branch with my "free" hand. Just the way it is. People have been doing the same thing accident free for years. As with most things in this biz, you can follow safety guidelines to a T but if you don't know your #### and aren't paying attention you'll still get hurt. Or you can cut one handed with only one TIP, no PPE for your entire career and never get hurt because you pay attention.


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## tree MDS (Sep 6, 2009)

*The good old days:*

Anyone remember one handing the old 020 AV's??

I wonder what it would be like to use one of them these days? surely heavy as all heck. We used to run em with 16" bars...I still miss that 2" of extra bar quite often. I'm thinking of shopping for a new 16 incher for my one handing...maybe I'll go check out Baileys right now..


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## treevet (Sep 6, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> Anyone remember one handing the old 020 AV's??
> 
> I wonder what it would be like to use one of them these days? surely heavy as all heck. We used to run em with 16" bars...I still miss that 2" of extra bar quite often. I'm thinking of shopping for a new 16 incher for my one handing...maybe I'll go check out Baileys right now..



Those old 020av's really cranked. Prob as much as the ms200. I probably owned and sold 40 or more of them over the years.


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## irish93stang (Sep 6, 2009)

16" on the 200t is the way to go!


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## tree MDS (Sep 6, 2009)

treevet said:


> Those old 020av's really cranked. Prob as much as the ms200. I probably owned and sold 40 or more of them over the years.



Yeah they did. I wonder how they really compare #'s wise??

There are still some of those saws out there sitting in homeowners basements in mint shape I'm sure.


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## pepsifreak28 (Sep 6, 2009)

*What about...*

What about McCULLOCH MAC 130's 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssxM8HH6awo
I have allways liked these little saws for ladder work or in tree work what do you guys think?


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## tree MDS (Sep 6, 2009)

pepsifreak28 said:


> What about McCULLOCH MAC 130's
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssxM8HH6awo
> I have allways liked these little saws for ladder work or in tree work what do you guys think?



That thing is sick dog! I want one.

Awesome vid too!


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## pepsifreak28 (Sep 6, 2009)

*.*

not my video just one from u tube but when i was in my teens i got one of these saws and they are so lite and can easyily one hand them it was my first chainsaw i got to find me another one as well there a pretty common saw a lot of them where made


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## treeslayer (Sep 6, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> That thing is sick dog! I want one.
> 
> Awesome vid too!



I had that saw many years ago. sounded exactly like that, and weighed nothing.
It was temperamental as heck, and one day it wouldn't start, again, so I threw it from over 80' up. 

My ground man picked it up, and it started first pull.:censored: he insisted on tying it on and sending it up.
I warned him.
the second time I tossed it, I solved the problem permanently. Stihl 020/200 ever since.


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## tree MDS (Sep 6, 2009)

treeslayer said:


> I had that saw many years ago. sounded exactly like that, and weighed nothing.
> It was temperamental as heck, and one day it wouldn't start, again, so I threw it from over 80' up.
> 
> My ground man picked it up, and it started first pull.:censored: he insisted on tying it on and sending it up.
> ...



Yeah but for ladder work? Come on man, get with the program!


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## pepsifreak28 (Sep 6, 2009)

*just starting out..*

I'm slowly getting gear to do some tree work and such but I dont have very much stuff at all really guess got to start somewhere I have had some issues with macs and starting but modding them a bit here and there or porting them i can make a crappy saw run decent my mac 3200 has a printer cartrige holder(little box you store a spare in) for an airbox runs good now..


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## treemandan (Sep 6, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> That thing is sick dog! I want one.
> 
> Awesome vid too!



WTF? Really? That peice of crap impressed you? You?


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## tree MDS (Sep 6, 2009)

treemandan said:


> WTF? Really? That peice of crap impressed you? You?



Did you even watch the vid dano?

Again: sick dog! :hmm3grin2orange:


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## treemandan (Sep 6, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> Did you even watch the vid dano?
> 
> Again: sick dog! :hmm3grin2orange:



well, lets see: I clicked the link and a video of a black and yellow top handle sitting on a stump started to play. Then somebody started the saw and revved it for a second then the video ended. I think the video was titled MAC 160.


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## tree MDS (Sep 6, 2009)

treemandan said:


> well, lets see: I clicked the link and a video of a black and yellow top handle sitting on a stump started to play. Then somebody started the saw and revved it for a second then the video ended. I think the video was titled MAC 160.



I really hope you realize I was being sarcastic dan. I would think you would know me better than that by now.

Another possible response: go smoke another blunt, that one flew over yer head like a 747. lol 

Just kidding buddy.


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## treeslayer (Sep 6, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> Yeah but for ladder work? Come on man, get with the program!


 I use a ladder to get over big crotches, nothing to do with saw work.

 and I'm wondering what program you're talking about. probably involves riding a short bus, or holding hands so as not to get seperated.

want a lighter saw, get a 192.
I told ya what I do to POS saws, We had an echo getting ready to suffer that fate, 
til the crusher lived up to his name and beat me to it. put it into a big log with the boss on the other end running a big stihl, the stihl finished the cut first and the echo stayed under the roll.


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## pepsifreak28 (Sep 6, 2009)

*mac*

Lol all you guys that hate mac saws I feel your pain but I think bmw owns the company now never know bmw could come out with a mac that would blow your mind afterall they make expensive cars...but for me I'm just starting out and with the way the economy is money is tight..


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## treemandan (Sep 6, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> I really hope you realize I was being sarcastic dan. I would think you would know me better than that by now.
> 
> Another possible response: go smoke another blunt, that one flew over yer head like a 747. lol
> 
> Just kidding buddy.



Yeah great joke.

But I also saw another Mac video- 610 on some blue spruce. It didn't look good.


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## treemandan (Sep 6, 2009)

pepsifreak28 said:


> Lol all you guys that hate mac saws I feel your pain but I think bmw owns the company now never know bmw could come out with a mac that would blow your mind afterall they make expensive cars...but for me I'm just starting out and with the way the economy is money is tight..



We understand. I used to have to tighten the cylinder head on my top handle every day. and sure, if it didn't start I would huck it out the tree and sure as shinola it would start then. Hey, if it starts and is sharp...


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## treeslayer (Sep 6, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> I really hope you realize I was being sarcastic dan. I would think you would know me better than that by now.
> 
> Another possible response: go smoke another blunt, that one flew over yer head like a 747. lol
> 
> Just kidding buddy.




Ya got me, good one. :yourock:


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## pepsifreak28 (Sep 6, 2009)

*this video?*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuCW6B8VTw8

looks to me like he needs to file his guides a bit..


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## treemandan (Sep 6, 2009)

treeslayer said:


> Ya got me, good one. :yourock:



Just where we would be with out Mds I don't know.


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## treemandan (Sep 6, 2009)

pepsifreak28 said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuCW6B8VTw8
> 
> looks to me like he needs to file his guides a bit..



Yeah I would have flung that thing within the first 2 seconds and if that is part 1 I hope he gets it together for part 2

Really, watching the thing cut like that was irritating from here.


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## tree MDS (Sep 6, 2009)

treemandan said:


> Yeah great joke.
> 
> But I also saw another Mac video- 610 on some blue spruce. It didn't look good.



Sorry about the bad joke guys, I really didnt think I was going to have to explain my sarcasm. 

Back on topic: there are many times rigging trees where its safer to use one hand, I'm not gonna sit there and play kissy face with my backcut when I could be behind the tree away from all that action.


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## treemandan (Sep 6, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> Sorry about the bad joke guys, I really didnt think I was going to have to explain my sarcasm.
> 
> Back on topic: there are many times rigging trees where its safer to use two hands, I'm now gonna sit there and play kissy face with my backcut when I could be behind the tree away from all that action.



No, No, I should have known and thanks for reminding me, I have to make a quick phone call.


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## tree MDS (Sep 6, 2009)

treemandan said:


> No, No, I should have known and thanks for reminding me, I have to make a quick phone call.



I meant to say one hand, I went back and fixed my post.

But yeah, you should have known better. Its all good.

I think I've got that same call to make, lol.


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## DK_stihl (Sep 6, 2009)

*One hand*

Yeah, I do it, but only because no has been able to show me a safer and more efficient way in the situations that require it.


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## pdqdl (Sep 6, 2009)

m.green said:


> The company I work for doesn't allow one handed cutting at all. But when you are up in the bucket over a road with traffic without flaggers (yeah I know, you are probably asking why not hire some. The company is cheap) you need to hold the limb, cut it and then either swing it to the side of the road or move your boom till the limbs out of the way and then drop it.
> 
> When clearing powerlines it's near impossible to cut with two hands 100% of the time



You should learn to do speedlines. Long limb? Set your line at the base of the limb, daisy chain your loopies up the line to the end, then cut them all off one at a time. Each loopie becomes the setpoint for next cut. Rig them all in advance, then cut away. Watch the groundmen complain because of how fast you send down the branches..


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## pdqdl (Sep 6, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> ...I still miss that 2" of extra bar quite often. I'm thinking of shopping for a new 16 incher for my one handing...maybe I'll go check out Baileys right now..



Just put a 16" on your 200t. My dealer will substitute a 16" for a 14" at no cost. They pull 16" just fine, and make a huge difference when cutting larger limbs "to the left". #### blocky engine; it gets in the way!


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## ozzy42 (Sep 6, 2009)

Back when I started out ,used to use the poulan [pull on] DA.
Anybody ever sling one of those tanks around?
The only thing plastic on them were the pull chord handle and the manual oil button cover.

Compared to those things ,,A 200,or 192 feels like holding a softball at the end of your arm.

I agree with the poster who talked about knowing where the bar is at all times ,and the plane of the bar.
Never had a problem with one handing a TH saw.

The warning labels may as well read "Keep both hands on saw at all times ,wink wink"

TH saws by design are not as stable or ergonomic as the same size saw with a rear handle,when used as reccomended.

Just my .02 wotrh.


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## tree MDS (Sep 6, 2009)

pdqdl said:


> Just put a 16" on your 200t. My dealer will substitute a 16" for a 14" at no cost. They pull 16" just fine, and make a huge difference when cutting larger limbs "to the left". #### blocky engine; it gets in the way!



Tried to rep you there... that sounds about right on to me. 

cant wait to try that one out.. ordering soon.


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## ozzy42 (Sep 6, 2009)

pepsifreak28 said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuCW6B8VTw8
> 
> looks to me like he needs to file his guides a bit..



Old guy probably thinks he has a mean cutting saw there.


What was up with pulling the starter rope out while shutting it off?
Did I miss something in school that day??:monkey:


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## pepsifreak28 (Sep 6, 2009)

*some people..*

Lol my uncle has a 20 inch bar on a homelite c72 once I got it running for him and went to saw some wood the guides where way to high i told him they needed filed down a bit he tried it out it seams to be cutting good he says so i filed them down for him and it eats though wood now. someone mentioned a good file guide from stihl? that makes the cutters a bit agressive


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## treevet (Sep 6, 2009)

ozzy42 said:


> Back when I started out ,used to use the poulan [pull on] DA.
> Anybody ever sling one of those tanks around?
> The only thing plastic on them were the pull chord handle and the manual oil button cover.



Poulan Super 25 DA....tons of power....quite heavy....gave some nasty muffler burns. We used to call them Pollock saws (no offense meant) as they were painted green and if the grass was long it might be difficult to find them lol.


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## treevet (Sep 6, 2009)

pdqdl said:


> make a huge difference when cutting larger limbs "to the left". #### blocky engine; it gets in the way!



This will really make the safety guys cringe but I am sure others do it.

I am going to make that cut with the power head upside down (2 hands on saw tho....one on top handle and one on rear of casing)


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## Bermie (Sep 6, 2009)

treemandan said:


> You have seen my prune jobs. Does it look like I am doing a lot of undo bashing?



No, I meant ME bashing around a tree! I hate climbing around a bushy tree just to prune with the 200 either on my belt or swinging on the lanyard! It gets stuck, it hits me on the back of my legs, dings up my boots, rips my pants, I get vexed...the day does not progress well


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## Nailsbeats (Sep 6, 2009)

Bermie said:


> No, I meant ME bashing around a tree! I hate climbing around a bushy tree just to prune with the 200 either on my belt or swinging on the lanyard! It gets stuck, it hits me on the back of my legs, dings up my boots, rips my pants, I get vexed...the day does not progress well



192t 12" bar, problem solved.


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## treevet (Sep 7, 2009)

treeslayer said:


> I had that saw many years ago. sounded exactly like that, and weighed nothing.
> It was temperamental as heck, and one day it wouldn't start, again, so I threw it from over 80' up.
> 
> My ground man picked it up, and it started first pull.:censored: he insisted on tying it on and sending it up.
> ...



This throwing of saws outta trees that didn't run was commonplace back in the late 60's to early 70's until more dependable saws were produced. 

Most commonly tossed was the Homelite Super 2 (guessing name). It had 2 throttles (front and rear) and was a POS. That saw in the video, called the Mini Mac was also a POS and got some air time. The McCullough...Power Mac 6 was the 020 of the era and quite dependable with plenty of power. I worked for a company called Shearer Tree in Trenton NJ that everyone would pick their saw up on the way out the door in a little cubby hole and put it back at night. Maybe 40 or them in the big wall unit.

I remember one time I was new to that company and the company foreman, Cal Smith, lent me his Power mac 6 in a tree as I was out of gas, and I ended up dropping it, prob got caught in a kerf thinking back. It bounded down a hill and chased him, almost hitting him. He was fuming, but I wasn't someone you wanted to jump in their sheeat. I brought him two parts PM 6's the next day I had and we were good as gold from then on.

One time we went out in the Head boats off the coast of NJ. One guy, the crane op, hooked a 8 to 10 foot shark and mate agreed to pull him up on deck as the guy wanted to put him on his station wagon and take him home with him. We, maybe 6 of us, were drunk as skunks. By morning after sobering up and the mate smacking the shark all night with his club, the guy no longer wanted to take the big stinking fish home on his roof. The mate kicked him out the gate into the ocean, and he just swam away like nothing happened (5 or 6 hours later). One tough animal.

Sorry to digress.:chatter:


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## treemandan (Sep 7, 2009)

Nailsbeats said:


> 192t 12" bar, problem solved.



I was gonna say the same thing. I used to have a little 12 inch mini bar. It was so cute. It was on an Echo cs 300 or something like that.


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## treeslayer (Sep 7, 2009)

treevet said:


> This will really make the safety guys cringe but I am sure others do it.
> 
> I am going to make that cut with the power head upside down (2 hands on saw tho....one on top handle and one on rear of casing)



I use my second hand on the saw the same way often. other times I even pull up on the breakaway lanyard, which levers the saw on the dogs when cutting big horizontal pieces.


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## tree MDS (Sep 7, 2009)

Whenever it was that stihl came out with these 200T's to replace the 020 av seems to be when they switched to a 14" bar. I always assumed this was because the old ones had more power...I'm really curious if thats true or not. I really hate the 14" bar the more I think about it, but I dont want to turn my baby into a dog either...


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## fishercat (Sep 7, 2009)

*if you pulled the spark screen..........*



tree MDS said:


> Whenever it was that stihl came out with these 200T's to replace the 020 av seems to be when they switched to a 14" bar. I always assumed this was because the old ones had more power...I'm really curious if thats true or not. I really hate the 14" bar the more I think about it, but I dont want to turn my baby into a dog either...



you should be fine.


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## tree MDS (Sep 7, 2009)

fishercat said:


> you should be fine.



Our very own oldirty tuned her right up nice. The saw was only a week old or so when he did it, that thing rips. I was a little worried at first because I'm now a saw tinkerer and I didnt want to blow it up, but she's been screaming for probably a year so far. I just sharpen em up and put gas and oil in em personally, maybe blow out the filters once in awhile.


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## treevet (Sep 7, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> Whenever it was that stihl came out with these 200T's to replace the 020 av seems to be when they switched to a 14" bar. I always assumed this was because the old ones had more power...I'm really curious if thats true or not. I really hate the 14" bar the more I think about it, but I dont want to turn my baby into a dog either...



Never saw an 020 AV with a 16" bar but the Poulans gave the option of 14 or 16 going out the door. I think that big bar would get in the way and lose a little power.


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## treevet (Sep 7, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> Our very own oldirty tuned her right up nice. The saw was only a week old or so when he did it, that thing rips. I was a little worried at first because I'm now a saw tinkerer and I didnt want to blow it up, but she's been screaming for probably a year so far. I just sharpen em up and put gas and oil in em personally, maybe blow out the filters once in awhile.



Real easy to adjust a carb. For a while Stihl took off the high adjustment and had auto adjustment of peak (maybe still does) but maybe got complaints and it is back. Just screw in both H and L being careful not to overtorque and damage the needle then back screws out to factory specs...... 3/4 turn on high and 1 turn on low....then tune to ear.

Man, we blow our filters out daily, sometimes more than that. Prob good to blow cooling fins out once in a while too.


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## lxt (Sep 7, 2009)

maybe those who write the ANSI rules should try limbing off over a house or powerlines when there is no safe central leader to rope anything to! yep ill use both hands on the saw, in the mean time the damage caused by dropping debris i couldnt hold onto...... well Ill just blame it on ANSI. LOL

there is no greater authority in the air trimming/removing trees than the person up there doing the work!!!!




LXT..............


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## lewis16 (Sep 7, 2009)

treevet said:


> This throwing of saws outta trees that didn't run was commonplace back in the late 60's to early 70's until more dependable saws were produced.
> 
> Most commonly tossed was the Homelite Super 2 (guessing name). It had 2 throttles (front and rear) and was a POS. That saw in the video, called the Mini Mac was also a POS and got some air time. The McCullough...Power Mac 6 was the 020 of the era and quite dependable with plenty of power. I worked for a company called Shearer Tree in Trenton NJ that everyone would pick their saw up on the way out the door in a little cubby hole and put it back at night. Maybe 40 or them in the big wall unit.
> 
> ...



i want a mac mini and a super 2, i am also after a stihl 010V or the 011av and the 020av


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## treevet (Sep 7, 2009)

lewis16 said:


> i want a mac mini and a super 2, i am also after a stihl 010V or the 011av and the 020av



Only good saw in that lot is the 020 av, but maybe you are going to start a collection on a shelf for all I know.


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## Toddppm (Sep 7, 2009)

"This old girl is all about making a big pile of chips in a fast way MADE IN THE USA!! "
Quote from that 2nd video, Oh man, fast it wasn't.

Chucked a few Super 2's and Poulan 25's, got a rash of crap for calling them heavy underpowered crap here one time.....compared to the 020's they are!

I have an old 020AV waiting to be revived should probably take it to my shop instead of sitting in the furnace room some day.


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## Tree Pig (Sep 7, 2009)

*M.Green-SVTS*

this M.Green-SVTS gave me a damn negative for stating my thoughts on using the top handle with one hand. Man that is a great way to get my first negative, giving an honest response to a question on here. Oh well doesnt mean a thing anyways. I hope this is a differant M.Green from Maine then the M.Green that posted in here admitting he cuts one handed at times.

So again it was M.Green-SVTS that gave me the negative for nothing so...


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## treemandan (Sep 7, 2009)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> this M.Green-SVTS gave me a damn negative for stating my thoughts on using the top handle with one hand. Man that is a great way to get my first negative, giving an honest response to a question on here. Oh well doesnt mean a thing anyways. I hope this is a differant M.Green from Maine then the M.Green that posted in here admitting he cuts one handed at times.
> 
> So again it was M.Green-SVTS that gave me the negative for nothing so...



I thought you had some sensible words on the subject.


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## treeslayer (Sep 7, 2009)

EVERYBODY cuts one-handed, otherwise we wouldn't spend $500 - $600 for a top handled saw.   they might tell ya different, and actually have some ridiculous safety restraints, but do it anyway.


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## beastmaster (Sep 7, 2009)

Maybe I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, but why would they make a saw with only room for one hand on it, that was perfectly designed to cut one handed, allowing the use of your other hand to hold, throw or push what your cutting, that allowed you to reach out and cut a branch that otherwise would be outside your reach. I have been useing saws all my life, in a tree or on the ground their an extension of my arms. It wasn't tell I learned to use a computer that I found out I'm doing it all wrong and unsafe. I wonder how I survived these last 30 years?


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## Bermie (Sep 8, 2009)

beastmaster said:


> Maybe I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, but why would they make a saw with only room for one hand on it, that was perfectly designed to cut one handed, allowing the use of your other hand to hold, throw or push what your cutting, that allowed you to reach out and cut a branch that otherwise would be outside your reach. I have been useing saws all my life, in a tree or on the ground their an extension of my arms. It wasn't tell I learned to use a computer that I found out I'm doing it all wrong and unsafe. I wonder how I survived these last 30 years?




There isn't 'only room for one hand' sparky...there are two handles, just they are so close together that the balance is such you CAN hold it with one hand...

In the UK (geez, I say that too much) for your practical test for 'chainsaw from a rope and harness' exam, you are ALLOWED to make a one handed cut as long as you are cutting way from your ropes and there is no chance of cutting your body, and to do otherwise would compromise safety, usually way out on the end of a limb...it is a bit speculative but as all (well, most) assessors are actual practitioners they can tell when its safe or not.

My tutor had a saying though...we put in on the back of a t shirt along with the rest of his choice phrases...
"one handed chainsaw use...bastard deserves to die..."


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## ozzy42 (Sep 8, 2009)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> this M.Green-SVTS gave me a damn negative for stating my thoughts on using the top handle with one hand. Man that is a great way to get my first negative, giving an honest response to a question on here. Oh well doesnt mean a thing anyways. I hope this is a differant M.Green from Maine then the M.Green that posted in here admitting he cuts one handed at times.
> 
> So again it was M.Green-SVTS that gave me the negative for nothing so...



That sucks .I think everybody that has posted on this subject has been honest ,yet respectfull of others opinions.


I can't seem to find him.
Quote his post so all of us can give him the "respect " HE deserves.


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## ozzy42 (Sep 8, 2009)

m.green said:


> My very first laddder experience was terrible. It was after an ice storm and my boss sent me up the ladder to cut a limb hanging over a den. I had a rope through a crotch at the top of the tree and a man at the bottom. (I was green (about 6 months green) and my boss told us what to do. so I climb the ladder, get up to the top, signal to the other ground man. And started to make my cut. Here are the mistakes.
> 
> 1) It was a poplar frozen.
> 2) had glair ice
> ...



Was it this guy ?




edit: I have withdrawn my previous offer of rep , on the grounds of the possibility of mistaken identity.


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## Treetom (Sep 8, 2009)

Sometimes I one-hand my 200t. But not with any crucial items, like body parts and climbing lines, in the kickback zone. And I keep the pics of MonkeyManJoe's face, after kickback, fresh in my mind. 

Please don't rag on McCullogh saws , my first climbing saws were top handle mini Macs, the ones that had the little thumb lever for manual oiling. They were peppy little saws that rattled apart after a few months of use. Replacements were plentiful at local yard sales and flea markets.


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## outofmytree (Sep 8, 2009)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> this M.Green-SVTS gave me a damn negative for stating my thoughts on using the top handle with one hand. Man that is a great way to get my first negative, giving an honest response to a question on here. Oh well doesnt mean a thing anyways. I hope this is a differant M.Green from Maine then the M.Green that posted in here admitting he cuts one handed at times.
> 
> So again it was M.Green-SVTS that gave me the negative for nothing so...



Sooooo. You're not like, telling tales are ya man?? oke:


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## Tree Pig (Sep 8, 2009)

ozzy42 said:


> Was it this guy .The one who was cutting aloft on a ladder with no tie in .He definitely desreves some rep.alright.
> I'll give him a chance to respond first.



not really sure. Its a different user account definitely was M.Green-SVTS but both M.Green have a Maine account so maybe he has two.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Sep 8, 2009)

:yawn:

Another one hand thread...er...fight....

I do know a few production workers who do not cut one handed with their 020/338, and i believe them.

For me it is occasional use, I prefer the old standard where it had to be the exception and approved my the foreman.

What so many forget is that the ANSI - Z133 is to protect the worker from the unsafe workplace; from bosses and foremen who put production above safety and training. Much of it is derived from injury and fatality statistics, and what the big companies see as actions that add risk to the work environment.

SO the old standard would put the onus on the company, in then rewrite of the standards the horsetading cause that part to disappear. Now it is all wink and nod and if someone gets hurt, it will be the employee who is to blame.


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## ozzy42 (Sep 8, 2009)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> :yawn:
> 
> Now it is all wink and nod and if someone gets hurt, it will be the employee who is to blame.



Well,since you put it that way,I have never used a saw one handed in my entire life,and never will.I swear on my 1st ex-wife's life.:hmm3grin2orange:


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## ozzy42 (Sep 8, 2009)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> not really sure. Its a different user account definitely was M.Green-SVTS but both M.Green have a Maine account so maybe he has two.



I have withdrawn my previous offer of rep , on the grounds of the possibility of mistaken identity.

But I wiil most certainly hit you with some pos rep as soon as I am able Stihl-O-Matic.


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## Tree Pig (Sep 8, 2009)

ozzy42 said:


> I have withdrawn my previous offer of rep , on the grounds of the possibility of mistaken identity.
> 
> But I wiil most certainly hit you with some pos rep as soon as I am able Stihl-O-Matic.



I wasnt rep fishing but I always do appreciate it so thanks in advance.


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## NCTREE (Oct 30, 2009)

lego1970 said:


> Pdqdl, Ouch!
> 
> Most the time I try to use both hands but sometimes use one hand if I think the other would be better for useing as balance by holding on to another branch.  So it just depends but mostly I try to disipline myself to use both hands. Once a nieghbor walked over and asked if I could cut down a limb out of his Silver Maple. I had been drinking and had a pretty good buzz but not overly drunk at the moment so I said sure and went over to house, climbed up and cut the branch off. To further my use of poor judgment I used one hand on the saw and somehow placed my other hand in the cutting path. Somehow I ended up tearing off my middle fingernail and leaving a little gash on my middle finger. Luckily I was buzzed enough not to feel it too bad, and when I got back down we drank some more so it didn't ruin my night other then feeling pretty stupid. Since then I have made it a personally policy not to drink and climb. Never did figure out how I put my finger in the saw path



In my opinion if one hand is on the saw then where is the other hand. As TMD said in #17 you have to think where the saw is going to go. If you make a habit of one handing a saw you become conditioned to using it that way, so what happens when your in a rush one day and you forget to think where that other hand is. 
I had an experience a couple of years ago where I was taking the top out of a tree, I had left a stub on an adjacent branch close to my cut where I held on with my left hand. It had been windy that day and it was gusting perpendicular to my notch, as I was cutting through the wind blew the top to the side and pinched my saw which forced the saw forward into my hand that was holding the branch. Sliced my pinky up real bad. If I hadn't been wearing gloves I think I would have lost it. 

If you one hand a saw always think before you cut it takes just one tiny mistake to :censored: yourself up.


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## TreeClimber57 (Oct 30, 2009)

treeslayer said:


> EVERYBODY cuts one-handed, otherwise we wouldn't spend $500 - $600 for a top handled saw.   they might tell ya different, and actually have some ridiculous safety restraints, but do it anyway.



I wouldn't say "everybody" does it. I do not a few who I have never seen one hand a saw and state they have never done it. Personally I have at times one handed my 200T. BUT know the risks, do it with extra care.. like anything else being aware of the hazards is half the issue.. knowing the risks and what causes them. Then you may be able to avoid them and one hand fairly safely in some circumstances. I know I do it.. but would not recommend it to others


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