# USDA Approved Firewood Vendors



## MNGuns (Aug 31, 2011)

Wanted to know how many of you firewood sellers here were USDA approved, and cared to answer some questions.


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## Hedgerow (Aug 31, 2011)

I got a better question... Why would anyone want to be???


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## redoakneck (Aug 31, 2011)

Good old USDA. How much does it cost to be certified to sell firewood??? 


I'm sorry sir, that wood burns tooo hot and toooo clean-- you are going to have to buy electric or gas,, we don't want you savin any money burning your own renwable resource. Now here is your $10,000 fine and I am goin have to take your saw and your truck, have a nice day!!!!:bang:


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## avalancher (Aug 31, 2011)

redoakneck said:


> Good old USDA. How much does it cost to be certified to sell firewood???
> 
> 
> I'm sorry sir, that wood burns tooo hot and toooo clean-- you are going to have to buy electric or gas,, we don't want you savin any money burning your own renwable resource. Now here is your $10,000 fine and I am goin have to take your saw and your truck, have a nice day!!!!:bang:


 

Oh, dont worry, that is coming any day now. Our county is already considering taxing firewood vendors by requiring a permit in addition to the business license. If you cut just for yourself, the rumor is the permit to just supply your own is going to be fifty bucks a year. Good luck in getting me to fork over the bucks.

"No sir, this aint firewood.Its debris from when a tree fell down and I am taking it to the county dump.Why is it split up like that?Well,I couldnt lift the big pieces into my truck so I split em up first." will be my story....


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## Laird (Aug 31, 2011)

Don't hold me to it, but I think I read somewhere that a USDA certification allowed you to sell firewood across state lines or maybe it allowed you to sell firewood from areas that were infested with EAB. I think you had to certify that your wood was kiln dried to a temperature that killed all EAB. If you live in an EAB infested area that might make you want to be certified if you do it for a living.


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## redoakneck (Aug 31, 2011)

Too little too late JMO on the EAB. All the ash trees around here are done. Very difficult to regulate with all the small transport of wood and most people have difficulty identifing different tree species, especially after leaf drop and cutting and splitting.


I see ash logs for sale at gas stations for camp wood once in a while, and wonder, gee, how they goin regulate that??? Gas station owner buys the stuff from a local on the cheap and does not even know it is ash---looks a lot like elm:bang:


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## Coldfront (Aug 31, 2011)

Around me it is illegal to transport fire wood more than 50 miles EAB.


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## lfnh (Aug 31, 2011)

Laird said:


> Don't hold me to it, but I think I read somewhere that a USDA certification allowed you to sell firewood across state lines or maybe it allowed you to sell firewood from areas that were infested with EAB. I think you had to certify that your wood was kiln dried to a temperature that killed all EAB. If you live in an EAB infested area that might make you want to be certified if you do it for a living.


 
State and local exceptions abound.

USDA Cert

More to gnaw on


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## redoakneck (Aug 31, 2011)

$500,000 fine for moving the wrong wood!!!! Dang, selling my saws and buying a pick axe and shovel- what are regs on self mining coal???

Just seems impossible to control because many of the firewood cutters do not know what kind of wood they have cut.

What does a tree service do with a bad ash tree for removal??? They don't burn it where it grew, do they?

Those are some serious regulations and fines:msp_ohmy::msp_ohmy::msp_ohmy:


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## audible fart (Aug 31, 2011)

If you gave Barack 2 matches and 3 seasoned stove sized splits there isn't a chance in the world he'd get a fire lit. 
Definately would sue the match company. #### him and all his deviant appointees.


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## lfnh (Aug 31, 2011)

redoakneck said:


> $500,000 fine for moving the wrong wood!!!! Dang, selling my saws and buying a pick axe and shovel- what are regs on self mining coal???
> 
> Just seems impossible to control because many of the firewood cutters do not know what kind of wood they have cut.
> 
> ...


 
At one point early one, chipping and griding to a specified maximum size chip thickness would supposedly kill the EAB larva. Seem to recall recently some chips were found to contain larva that were intact. But this was disputed... 
Not sure where the real truth lies, so to speak.


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## MNGuns (Aug 31, 2011)

K-ripes...this thread took off in the wrong direction....:msp_thumbdn:

USDA approved firewood is kiln dried and approved for transport across state lines, and in my case firewood that is transported more than 50 miles. The state of MN has DNR approved firewood, that is legal to sell in State Forests, and a market that I am not too excited about but it does produce sales if you are DNR approved. USDA trumps DNR. MN DNR is way under staffed and the process to get DNR certified is a logistical nightmare. You have to submit an application for wood harvested out of each section, township, county, that you harvest from. New cut site, new application. And the wood has to be physically seperated. Nuts. Oh, and while they do have all these rules, they admit to not having personnel enough to inspect and enforce the program.

So....The USDA program for wood is no different than USDA beef, pork, poultry, etc. It is a program, a process, a pain in the butt, but if you want to be anythingmore than a CL bandit, you better learn to play along.


Anybody here part of the program...?


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## STLfirewood (Aug 31, 2011)

Last year I checked into getting my kiln USDA certified. I was told they wouldn't come out and certify it until I was in a quarantine area or had to drive my wood through a quarantine area. I didn't push it because I was to busy I'm going to try and pus for it this year. I want to be ahead of the game. I am the only one in the area so I want to be ready when it hits.

Scott


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## lfnh (Aug 31, 2011)

MNGuns:

My appologies for my posts that did not address your original question.

This USDA pdf list is the latest out there of certified firewood producers and distributors across the country for EAB compliance. Note that EAB certification maybe upsurped by Gypsy Moth Quarantines in areas identified by the USDA (map).

Hope this helps answer some part of your question.


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## Hedgerow (Sep 1, 2011)

I just got done delivering a load of firewood tonight to an area named Ash grove... I know now why they call it that... Driving in I saw more Ash trees than I ever have... They were everywhere... In yards, along roads, and in the fields. I was thinking to myself... What if there was an EAB breakout in this area? Crap!!! But, on the other hand, I saw the overbearing government regulation... Hmmm...


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## Firewoodguy NE (May 9, 2017)

*....USDA Approved Firewood Vendors *...............
I've been state and federal approved firewood dealer in the NH,MA and Maine for a little over 20 years. The late 90's was the gypsy moth era and today, its the EAB era. It a lot to learn and requires addition equipment to comply with the current regulations and compliance agreements. In the long run, its well worth it. Thanks for listening.


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## Hddnis (May 9, 2017)

In the long run USSRDA certification will do absolutely nothing to stop the spread of any pest or disease, but the bureaucrats will have a job and more power, the elected officials will still get bribed by the bureaucrats, and everyone will be poorer and the standard of living reduced.

It is a scam. Buying special favors so you can be a little more equal than everyone else.


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## Sandhill Crane (May 9, 2017)

MNGuns said:


> K-ripes...this thread took off in the wrong direction....:msp_thumbdn:



Keeper on track... It's a good question


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## ChoppyChoppy (May 9, 2017)

avalancher said:


> Oh, dont worry, that is coming any day now. Our county is already considering taxing firewood vendors by requiring a permit in addition to the business license. If you cut just for yourself, the rumor is the permit to just supply your own is going to be fifty bucks a year. Good luck in getting me to fork over the bucks.
> 
> "No sir, this aint firewood.Its debris from when a tree fell down and I am taking it to the county dump.Why is it split up like that?Well,I couldnt lift the big pieces into my truck so I split em up first." will be my story....



They talked about it here too.

It mostly stemmed from gravel (millions and millions of yards of gravel here. 3 huge pits within walking distance, one pulls out about 2 million yards a year)

Well they also tossed in timber and anything grown. Being this area is the main food supplier of the state that didn't go over well at all. Pretty sure a few farmers would have done kill dozer if it had gone through.

No state lines to cross here haha!


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## woodshax (May 11, 2017)

In texas there are currently no kiln dried, heat treated or moving restrictions but that will change some day as almost every state is moving to having restrictions... from not moving firewood more than a certain distance (25-50 miles seems the norm) unless it is heat treated. Heat treated and Kiln dried are not the same thing. Kiln dried simply means that it was put in a kiln (mostly to reduce water content) while Heat treated is a USDA term and has specific core temperatures and time in a kiln to achieve a "heat treated status" and this is done so that all invasive species and many tree diseases are done away with.....So think "all Natural" vs Organic... All natural means nothing while Organic has multiple legal requirements. Sooner or later every state will tighten the transport radius or mandate Kiln dried. We are building a kiln now to differentiate ourselves and will start out saying the wood is "kiln dried" until we get our temps and gauging systems dialed in to go for the USDA "heat treated" label. Since National and State parks are leading the charge to combat invasive species they are the first to restrict.....Right now the National Parks require firewood to be either gathered on site or purchased on site or USDA (I believe). We sell firewood only in State parks so it is in our best interest to get out ahead of the changes.


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## Firewoodguy NE (May 11, 2017)

woodshax said:


> In texas there are currently no kiln dried, heat treated or moving restrictions but that will change some day as almost every state is moving to having restrictions... from not moving firewood more than a certain distance (25-50 miles seems the norm) unless it is heat treated. Heat treated and Kiln dried are not the same thing. Kiln dried simply means that it was put in a kiln (mostly to reduce water content) while Heat treated is a USDA term and has specific core temperatures and time in a kiln to achieve a "heat treated status" and this is done so that all invasive species and many tree diseases are done away with.....So think "all Natural" vs Organic... All natural means nothing while Organic has multiple legal requirements. Sooner or later every state will tighten the transport radius or mandate Kiln dried. We are building a kiln now to differentiate ourselves and will start out saying the wood is "kiln dried" until we get our temps and gauging systems dialed in to go for the USDA "heat treated" label. Since National and State parks are leading the charge to combat invasive species they are the first to restrict.....Right now the National Parks require firewood to be either gathered on site or purchased on site or USDA (I believe). We sell firewood only in State parks so it is in our best interest to get out ahead of the changes.


Apparently, The EAB has just been discovered in Texas about a year ago. https://www.dontmovefirewood.org/map/texas/
Your newer regulations for movement of firewood is closer than you think. " Good Timing !" You installing a kiln couldn't be of a better time. Hope u do well !


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## Firewoodguy NE (May 11, 2017)

woodshax said:


> In texas there are currently no kiln dried, heat treated or moving restrictions but that will change some day as almost every state is moving to having restrictions... from not moving firewood more than a certain distance (25-50 miles seems the norm) unless it is heat treated. Heat treated and Kiln dried are not the same thing. Kiln dried simply means that it was put in a kiln (mostly to reduce water content) while Heat treated is a USDA term and has specific core temperatures and time in a kiln to achieve a "heat treated status" and this is done so that all invasive species and many tree diseases are done away with.....So think "all Natural" vs Organic... All natural means nothing while Organic has multiple legal requirements. Sooner or later every state will tighten the transport radius or mandate Kiln dried. We are building a kiln now to differentiate ourselves and will start out saying the wood is "kiln dried" until we get our temps and gauging systems dialed in to go for the USDA "heat treated" label. Since National and State parks are leading the charge to combat invasive species they are the first to restrict.....Right now the National Parks require firewood to be either gathered on site or purchased on site or USDA (I believe). We sell firewood only in State parks so it is in our best interest to get out ahead of the changes.



Apparently, the time is closer than u think https://www.dontmovefirewood.org/map/texas/


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## woodshax (May 11, 2017)

Snap....thanks....we better get into high gear!!


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## fireemt799 (May 12, 2017)

I have looked into it but I don't face any quarantines in my area. My kiln will reach the required temperature but was quoted over $15k to get certification which is way too much for me. If I had to certify I would get a kiln direct kiln because they come out and certify it when they install and would need their larger volume to even make it worth considering. 

There is also a different certification that different groups are pushing. It is basically the same certification as pellets go through from pellet fuel institute and others. This new push coincides with the new epa stove emmission rules. Of you don't burn dry wood your stove will put out more emmissions than its supposed to. They want to certify firewood to meet their standards and make that the only wood you can use in epa approved stoves. It's a bad idea that would have very bad restrictions on producers that would kill the little guys and increase the cost of wood to be uncompetitive. It has been in biomass magazine among others and really hope it doesn't get legs and become laws. The next level of epa stove emissions is pretty scary as well.


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## Hddnis (May 12, 2017)

Exactly, it has everything to do with power and nothing to do with invasive species.


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## Firewoodguy NE (May 15, 2017)

NO


redoakneck said:


> Good old USDA. How much does it cost to be certified to sell firewood???
> 
> 
> I'm sorry sir, that wood burns tooo hot and toooo clean-- you are going to have to buy electric or gas,, we don't want you savin any money burning your own renwable resource. Now here is your $10,000 fine and I am goin have to take your saw and your truck, have a nice day!!!!:bang:



How much does it cost to be certified to sell firewood???
Reply; In the northeast, there are only a few heat-treated processing that meets state and USDA compliances. average cost per cord is between $300 - 350.00 per cord in bulk delivered by the manufacture. you also get a numbered recite that its USDA compliance interstate / intrastate movement of firewood. There is NO state / federal fee to become a re-distributing dealer. Hope this helps


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## sb47 (May 16, 2017)

With travel being so easy and millions doing it everyday. There only slowing it down at best. I'm sure there not interested in stopping the spread of EAB as much as there just collecting a new tax. I don't cut ash so that may not affect me. But knowing our goobberment they will tax all wood just as a new source of revenue. If you plan on selling commercially you already have to be certified.


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## sb47 (May 16, 2017)

redoakneck said:


> $500,000 fine for moving the wrong wood!!!! Dang, selling my saws and buying a pick axe and shovel- what are regs on self mining coal???
> 
> Just seems impossible to control because many of the firewood cutters do not know what kind of wood they have cut.
> 
> ...



There simply gonna say. "Ignorance of the law is no excuse".


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## woodshax (May 17, 2017)

sb47 said:


> With travel being so easy and millions doing it everyday. There only slowing it down at best. I'm sure there not interested in stopping the spread of EAB as much as there just collecting a new tax. I don't cut ash so that may not affect me. But knowing our goobberment they will tax all wood just as a new source of revenue. If you plan on selling commercially you already have to be certified.



Certification depends on the State....Big brother or tree huggers......it is a toss up on who is pushing the new regs but they are a comin! so might as well suck it up and play the game. If I could get heat treated wood here in texas for $300 a cord, I would forgo the kiln and just buy all I could get....I resell it for $1200 a cord after it is bagged or bundled and could sell it for more if it is certified


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## redoakneck (May 17, 2017)

sb47 said:


> There simply gonna say. "Ignorance of the law is no excuse".


Yep, just like hunting or fishing without a license.


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## Firewoodguy NE (May 17, 2017)

woodshax said:


> Certification depends on the State....Big brother or tree huggers......it is a toss up on who is pushing the new regs but they are a comin! so might as well suck it up and play the game. If I could get heat treated wood here in texas for $300 a cord, I would forgo the kiln and just buy all I could get....I resell it for $1200 a cord after it is bagged or bundled and could sell it for more if it is certified


Reply;
I agree with you in forgetting manufacturing heat-treating firewood vs buying approved certified firewood in bulk form. Its a lot less to buy USDA certified firewood delivered to your yard than it is to manufacture / process / heat-treated it and the operating cost and maintenance via Kiln drying firewood yourself. From re-calculating your figures, .75 cu ft Bundled firewood is about the same retail price around here as it is in your area. I never sold bundled firewood, I only been selling partial cord units of kiln dry via Heat Treatment since '97. Around the turn of the century, its now labeled around here as Heat - Treated firewood vs Kiln Drying. thanks for listening, Have a great day!


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## woodshax (May 17, 2017)

Yep...."heat treated" is like organic....must meet the USDA guidelines while "kiln dried" is like "natural" no standard....you can stick it in a Kiln for 5 minutes and call it that.....I was thinking of selling "all natural, no chemicals added, kiln dried, Gluten free, no MSG, or added sugar, american made firewood" to see who bites


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## Erik B (May 17, 2017)

woodshax said:


> Yep...."heat treated" is like organic....must meet the USDA guidelines while "kiln dried" is like "natural" no standard....you can stick it in a Kiln for 5 minutes and call it that.....I was thinking of selling "all natural, no chemicals added, kiln dried, Gluten free, no MSG, or added sugar, american made firewood" to see who bites


What about 'no added dyes'? Buyers need to be able to identify wood by its natural color. LOL


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## Firewoodguy NE (May 17, 2017)

woodshax said:


> Yep...."heat treated" is like organic....must meet the USDA guidelines while "kiln dried" is like "natural" no standard....you can stick it in a Kiln for 5 minutes and call it that.....I was thinking of selling "all natural, no chemicals added, kiln dried, Gluten free, no MSG, or added sugar, american made firewood" to see who bites


Woodshax, I wouldn't go that far in advertising unless you have real documentation to back it up. That may or could lead to false advertising if you don't have documentation to back up your advertisements. For an example, I just use the same language as my state and bordering states uses, USDA and EPA "burn wise" recommendations. i.e. Heat-Treated firewood, ...what you burn matters !, ..what you buy matters!, Insect and disease Free, a better choice or safer firewood and etc., etc. for your advertising.
There is requirements you have to follow when you receive a state/USDA compliance agreement to transport heat-treated or un-treated firewood from a quarantine county to another non-quarantine country and vise versa and into and return from a bordering state.
My compliance agreement requirements indicates that if I change my supplier, I have to notify them, and any Heat-treated firewood can not be left on the ground waiting to be re-distributed and transportation vehicles has to be an enclosed top vehicle/vehicles.
Therefore, there is not that much for a dealer to comply to via holding a state/gov compliance agreement. If you hold a compliance agreement, and you as a dealer, violates the compliance agreement, that's where the $5,000 fines are issued
to the dealer.
Hope that my post will help you on advertising and how my compliance agreement worked for me, in my state and the northeast bordering states.
Hope it works well for u too.


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## woodshax (May 18, 2017)

Thanks NE.....we will get there....right now I just deal with the DFW state parks and will go through about 200 cords a year selling by the bag....and I am the one leading them forward.... this year....sourced with in 50 miles, next year within 25 and supplemented with "kiln dried",
year 3 25 miles or Kiln dried to the USDA standard but not marked "heat treated" and year 4, 25 miles or USDA standard and marked......They are all over it because the Texas legislators are too busy arguing over what bathrooms people should use vice environmental controls


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## Firewoodguy NE (May 18, 2017)

woodshax said:


> Thanks NE.....we will get there....right now I just deal with the DFW state parks and will go through about 200 cords a year selling by the bag....and I am the one leading them forward.... this year....sourced with in 50 miles, next year within 25 and supplemented with "kiln dried",
> year 3 25 miles or Kiln dried to the USDA standard but not marked "heat treated" and year 4, 25 miles or USDA standard and marked......They are all over it because the Texas legislators are too busy arguing over what bathrooms people should use vice environmental controls



Reply, that's interesting to know how different parts of the US states is acting upon firewood/environmental issues. Oh well ! 
I usually read up on the newest CA regulations, cus those regulations usually or always become effective in this region about 8-10 later. you take care !


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## ChoppyChoppy (May 18, 2017)

I can't see kiln drying firewood to be economical. Maybe if the kiln was wood fired, but still would have ~15k in a boiler and setup.

I could in theory fit maybe 3 cords in our kiln. To dry it and break even I'd have to make a $275 cord cost about $450!

I'd have to sell bundles at around $10 each (double the cost) to make about the same profit I do now with regular wood.

We have spruce bark beatles here, it is what it is. No rules about it. I don't sell much spruce anyhow though, I think I did 7 cords last year out of almost 500.


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## T. Mainus (May 21, 2017)

We are certified by the State of Wisconsin. This means our firewood can travel anywhere in the state, including state parks. We are quarantined because of the emerald ash borer. Firewood is not supposed to leave the area that it was harvested in to help stop the spread of EAB. Our certified wood has to stay on our premises for 2 years before we sell it. It costs us $50 for the application, and then they send someone out to inspect your log piles/and or splits. We have to have signed documentation from the logging company on when the load was delivered. We then get a certificate that we give to the customers who need it for going camping. Most campgrounds around here won't even let you bring in certified wood any more. They ban all firewood under the disguise of stopping EAB, but they really just want to gouge you on the firewood they are selling in the campground. We do it because we do get some relatively free advertising out of it and we do make some more sales to people going camping.


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