# SUV hybrids-your experiences, thoughts



## Chris J. (Feb 20, 2006)

I've been doing some superficial research into the Ford Escape & Toyota Highlander. The MPG is close, and the Highlander (being a Toyota) is priced a fair amount higher. I'd certainly appreciate hearing your thoughts and experiences.


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## clearance (Feb 20, 2006)

Toyota has better quality and resale, I hate saying that but that Jap-scrap is better than Ford. Fact. Cris J., how about getting an old Bronco, the ones they made up until 76, 77? Smaller than a Blazer, light, simple, strong 4x4 that you can actually work on,


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## Chris J. (Feb 20, 2006)

The early small Broncos that aren't falling apart bring a good price around here. Also I'm needing something reliable as I'm not real fond of crawling under a car when I should be driving it to work. I'm hoping that some folks here have some hands-on experience with the green machines.


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## clearance (Feb 20, 2006)

O.K. Chris, my girlfriends best friend has an escape, I think it is an 02, not sure. She likes it, I like the color (black) other than that it look about as solid as a bran muffin. I would never take it into the bush, low hanging stuff (looked like an oil cooler) would get ripped off quick. Good vehicle for a woman I guess but think of the old Bronco you could buy for the same money!


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## ShoerFast (Feb 20, 2006)

Chris J

Getting out of the car business when electric-gas hybrid cars were just talk, I had heard that the batteries were the weak link.

But as the use of lithium-ion battery takes over, will there usefulness will be enhanced?

If there were a few more cheap (nuclear) power plants to plug these thing in to, it might have a use in short trips and inner-city use.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060220/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_energy

Kevin


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## skwerl (Feb 20, 2006)

I'd run very fast and very far away from anything that is a 'hybrid' in that it is halfway powered by electricity. You're paying an $8K-$10K premium for the 'hybrid' and then you still have the inconvenience and cost of charging it up. I can buy several years worth of fuel for that same $8K and have a much more practical vehicle while doing it. If you want to buy into the "we're running out of oil" argument and you honestly believe that you spending $8K on a hybrid is going to make one iota of differnce, then go ahead. By that point nothing I can say would make a difference.


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## sal b (Feb 20, 2006)

::


skwerl said:


> I'd run very fast and very far away from anything that is a 'hybrid' in that it is halfway powered by electricity. You're paying an $8K-$10K premium for the 'hybrid' and then you still have the inconvenience and cost of charging it up. I can buy several years worth of fuel for that same $8K and have a much more practical vehicle while doing it. If you want to buy into the "we're running out of oil" argument and you honestly believe that you spending $8K on a hybrid is going to make one iota of differnce, then go ahead. By that point nothing I can say would make a difference.


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## johnha (Feb 22, 2006)

One of the local news channels in Philthandsmellphia had a consumer reporter do a special on these late in 2005. Bottom line was that even with the high gas prices, total cost of ownership for a hybrid didn't justify buying one. I give this a little more weight than the interested party type analysis you can find online.

IMO, you're better off buying the most fuel efficient gas model you can find, or if you need a truck buy used and put the savings over new into the gas budget.


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## rb_in_va (Feb 22, 2006)

Chris,
A former co-worker had an Escape. It looked ok to me, until we went to lunch one day and I rode in it. Then it seemed rather cheap and plasticky on the inside. My 2000 Frontier seemed to have a better interior than the Escape. Then the Escape started breaking down on her. She traded it in on a Jeep Liberty. I heard the Jeep will be offering the Liberty in a diesel. Have you looked into that?

edit: Just looked up the diesel Liberty. It is a 2.8L 4 cyl available with the Sport 4X4 version. MPG: 22 city/27 highway


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## Pilsnaman (Feb 22, 2006)

I would agree with staying away from the hybrid cars, SUVs, etc. Not only will you not save money on gas due to the extra up-front cost of the vehicle but think of the extra maintenance. They have a lot of extra moving parts and electronics to break, and you better believe they cost a lot of bones. Also, when they do need maintenance who are you going to turn to? A lot of the system will be more then you will want to try and your local mechanic won't know what to do with all the "technology." So you are stuck going to the dealership, who can charge a premium for the work because they are the only ones who can do the work.
I would also like to take this opportunity and state my dislike of the law allowing the hybrid vehicles on HOV with only one person. My wife's Toyota Corolla gets 42 mpg highway, and thats actualy what we get on trips, which is better then a lot of hybrids. So why can't I get on HOV with one person, probably because they payed all that extra $$ for that sticker saying "hybrid" on the back.


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## Chris J. (Feb 22, 2006)

As always some excellent points have been presented.

As for ruggedness, I don't do any offroad driving (well, not intentionally), so tearing up the vehicle wouldn't be a huge concern. I certainly concur that the Escape and the Highlander seem more suited to urban driving.

The maintenance needed for complicated hybrid system is a major concern, especially with the Escape, as it uses the braking system to help keep the battery charged. I'm not sure what the Highlander uses, I need to do more research. I would think that an extended warranty, very specific to the hybrid system, would be well worth considering. 

I'm not sure about a Liberty diesel, the gas mileage for the diesel four cylinder seems to be less that what my in-laws get in their gas powered four cylinder Highlander. Also the more expensive diesal fuel seems to offset the gain in MPG, if indeed there is one.

The hybrid option in the Escape adds about $3,000.00 to the regular price. I'm not sure about the Highlander.


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## Toddppm (Feb 22, 2006)

I just got my wife an 06 Escape a couple months ago. So far besides being low on freon right out the door(they fixed) it's been fine. We got the 4 cyl. which is not bad at all on power but I kinda wish I woulda got the 6 , is only 1-2 mpg difference. Got a good deal and didn't want to wait for another to come in.

For my wife this is a great vehicle because we need 4wd where we're at and it's fully automatic. I don't think it feels or looks cheaper than any other vehicle out there unless you're looking for real wood grain, what are you gonna get better looking plastic?

I did test drive one for a day before I bought and now after having it a while I could not drive the thing on a long trip, it's very uncomfortable for a taller person, I'm 6'2. I don't know why, just an awkward seating position, the wife doesn't seem to mind though.


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## sedanman (Feb 22, 2006)

Liberty Diesel. 30 mpg, good power, can tow stuff. If you ever crash it hard enough to set it on fire a lot less dangerous than burning batteries.


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## rb_in_va (Feb 23, 2006)

Toddppm said:


> I don't think it feels or looks cheaper than any other vehicle out there unless you're looking for real wood grain, what are you gonna get better looking plastic?



What other vehicles did you look at? All I know is that my Accord doesn't have wood grain OR leather, and it seems to have a more quality look and feel to it. So yeah I guess it's better looking plastic.


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## Chris J. (Feb 23, 2006)

Paul, I was hoping that you'd post your thoughts. My in-laws average 30 mpg in their gas 4 cyl Highlander. Diesel engine technology has come a long way (there's a thread here somewhere), but I don't see the advantage unless gas & diesel prices get really close. 

One time when I got stuck in traffic I was about 6 feet from a burning fuel tank on a diesel 18 wheeler. That was a strange experience.


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## Allan.K (Feb 23, 2006)

Anything that say's (hybrid)='s Major cost of owning one,major repair bill when it goes down,To some it is a major cost to own one... NO THANKS THEY CAN KEEP THEY KEEP THEM ...Over priced :censored: .....


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## KarlP (Feb 23, 2006)

skwerl said:


> You're paying an $8K-$10K premium for the 'hybrid' and then you still have the inconvenience and cost of charging it up.



While I agree that hybrids aren't currently worth the premium...

Inconvenience and cost of charging it up?!? If stepping on the gas and brake pedals are really that inconvenient I suggest you consider a chauffeur.


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## 12guns (Feb 23, 2006)

*Fleet of hybrids*

My employer is currently trying out a large number of escape hybrids for our claims service. I have not heard how they have done w/ regards to reliability, mpg etc, but I can assure you these have been put through abuse that yours would not ever see. I have personally heard mixed results about hybrids, but i'll check w/ my company and see if I can find something out for you guys...


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## Toddppm (Feb 23, 2006)

rb_in_va said:


> What other vehicles did you look at? All I know is that my Accord doesn't have wood grain OR leather, and it seems to have a more quality look and feel to it. So yeah I guess it's better looking plastic.




I didn't take nearly as much time looking at others but I did check out the Blazer and Jeep liberty. But I have owned a Honda and got rid of it because of acorn damage destroyed the whole top of the car=cheap piece of crap besides the motor. Have had Nissan, got rid of a chevy to get the Escape. I just don't get the cheap feeling from the plastic interior I guess? 

The Escape will hold it's value pretty good too as it's been voted best smaller SUV and seems to be very popular.


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## Chris J. (Feb 24, 2006)

12guns, I'd certainly appreciate hearing what your company comes up with on the hybrids. Nothing can match realworld testing.

I don't think that hybrids will ever take over the work truck market (but who knows), but I can see the day when there will be many hybrid passenger vehicles on the road. The times are a changin'......even if slowly.


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## rb_in_va (Feb 24, 2006)

Chris J. said:


> I don't think that hybrids will ever take over the work truck market (but who knows), but I can see the day when there will be many hybrid passenger vehicles on the road. The times are a changin'......even if slowly.



If by hybrid you mean alternative fuel vehicles I agree with you. Just not sure about the electric battery/gas vehicles. Has anyone ever priced what the replacement cost would be on those things? Also what sort of environmental impact will it have? These are things that no one seems to be talking about. A lot of hype for hybrid vehicles that get no better mileage than a 20 year old diesel!


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## Chris J. (Mar 30, 2006)

12guns, did you get a chance to ask what your company found out regarding the hybrids?


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## 12guns (Mar 30, 2006)

No, I'll ask around tomorrow and see if anybody has an update. I'll let you know.


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## asb151 (Mar 31, 2006)

Before you go and buy a vehicle like that and pay an extra premium you need to understand the business case. How many miles a year do you drive? Based on that figure out how many years of driving it will take to make your money back (plus the extra maintenance cost). You might find you need to be driving 40,000+ miles a year for it to even come close to making economic sense.


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## Chris J. (Jun 23, 2006)

So, how's everybody doing? I hope that you and yours are well.

I'm starting to get more serious about replacing my Nissan Frontier, am tired of the 4 cylinder & stick. So here's a bump...

I hope to spend some time tomorrow speaking with a Saturn VUE owner, althought it's not a hybrid. Paul, if you read this, I'd like to hear some more about the diesel Liberty (I'll take into account your Chrysler bias :biggrinbounce2.


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## Paul61 (Jun 26, 2006)

Sorry, my bad..........didn't read the Hybrid part
(duh).


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## hornett22 (Jun 28, 2006)

*avoid the saturn vue at all costs.*

people i know have them said they like them for the first week and then you start hating it fast.i'd avoid a hybrid unless you plan on getting rid of it before the warranty runs out.i used to be a toyota mchanic.when there is a failure on a hybrid,it's expensive.they aren't gonn give great warranties on them forever.americans cannot build smaller vehicles like the japs.don't bother trying to convince yourself they compare.i drive daily an 84 tercel 4wd wagon,an 85 toyota pickup,and an 88 4runner.i'd love to buy american,just ain't gonna till they start caring and take some pride in their work.the 4runner i offroad hard 
and it always gets me home.not to mention i can't count the jeeps i've pulled out with it. 
hybrids are a bunch of hype.we are not running out of oil.not now,not ever.it's another gimmick to justify the EPA.


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## turnkey4099 (Jun 28, 2006)

clearance said:


> O.K. Chris, my girlfriends best friend has an escape, I think it is an 02, not sure. She likes it, I like the color (black) other than that it look about as solid as a bran muffin. I would never take it into the bush, low hanging stuff (looked like an oil cooler) would get ripped off quick. Good vehicle for a woman I guess but think of the old Bronco you could buy for the same money!



I was looking forward to the production Bronco back when it first came out. Thought sure Ford would put out a good off-road rig. Walked across the street toward it, turned around in the middle and departed. Why? The rig was up on a ramp and clear as day the lowest thing, and the first to contact anything, was the tierod. Real good off-road engineering...not! I hope the changed that later.

Harry K


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