# Look what the wind & rain brought me!



## aquan8tor (Oct 30, 2006)

Went up to the cabin yesterday to find a new milling project!!! 


Its hard to tell the size from the pics because the trunk sunk in the mud near the rootball, but the base is 40". The only problem is going to be moving it!!! I did some rough calculations. For an average 66lbs/cu. ft. green, a 10' x 36" section of this tree would weigh almost 4800lbs. There's no access to the tree from anywhere close, and even if I had a portable winch, I couldn't get a cord around it!!!!! I wont get to it for a while anyway.


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## Ekka (Oct 30, 2006)

Your pics are way to big in size an MB

Please reduce, not many will view at that size.

Ta


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## Marc1 (Oct 30, 2006)

Nice. 
A Lucas Mill would be just the ticket for that job.
What sort of tree is it?


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## CaseyForrest (Oct 30, 2006)

Looks like a Shagbark Hickory, Im probably wrong though.


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## aquan8tor (Oct 30, 2006)

The bark at the top looks like a little like a shagbark, but the trunk looks like a white oak. The leaves had already completely fallen by the time the tree fell, so i.d. is questionable. The other shagbarks in the area have the scales on the bark all the way to the ground. I'm 90% sure its a white oak. Sorry about the pics. I dont know how to resize them on this pc. Just picked up this laptop to go back to school this fall. My desktop had an image resizer built in. Sorry bout that. Maybe someone else can help. I agree about the lucasmill!! That would be a PITA to haul in though!!! I'll be carting the boards up a steep hill one at a time. Literally. Its hard to describe the topography of the localized area, but it kind of sits on a big "shelf" or terrace, too steep to get the little 4wd tacoma to. Not that a bigger truck could handle it either. 

I can pull the pickup to the edge of the hill and maybe drag some cut cants up. Or, maybe I can bribe my uncle to let me use his honda foreman. I dont know if it could pull that much. If I quarter it, it'll still weigh 1000 lbs.


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## aquan8tor (Oct 30, 2006)

What are people's results with different cant hooks/peaveys?? I'm probably going to be alone with this tree. I might be able to enlist one person to help move some of the trunk sections, but I need a cant hook that I can depend on. What's the biggest that is available?? I cant find one bigger than 60", which I dont think is enough to move a log this big. Any thoughts?? 


HELP!


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## BlueRidgeMark (Oct 30, 2006)

aquan8tor said:


> Sorry about the pics. I dont know how to resize them on this pc. Just picked up this laptop to go back to school this fall. My desktop had an image resizer built in. Sorry bout that. Maybe someone else can help.




Here ya go:

For a free picture editor, see

www.irfanview.com or

http://graphicssoft.about.com/cs/imageediting/tp/freephotoedw.htm


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## aquan8tor (Oct 30, 2006)

thanks for the link! 

test pic.


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## aquan8tor (Oct 30, 2006)

well, that didnt work. keeps saying image upload failed. I'll try the other program later.


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## bookerdog (Oct 30, 2006)

*Nice*

Nice tree goodluck.


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## aggiewoodbutchr (Oct 30, 2006)

That looks to be in pretty deep. How are you planning to the trunk loose from the root ball? lt looks to me like a shovel will be involved.:bang: 

Have you thought of rigging something like a low level spar pole to drag the cants uphill? It would require some good ropes, pulley or two and a decent sized tree but it would beat carrying the boards uphill one at a time.


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## aquan8tor (Oct 30, 2006)

I dont know what a spar pole is. I've thought about getting a long rope/chain and dragging the cants up the hill, but its a good 100' or so from where I could get the truck to. As far as the trunk and the mud are concerned, yes, I'll definitely be using a shovel!! I've got a 42" bar for my husky, but I wont be putting it into the dirt around the base for sure. The trunk section will be the last to get cut up for sure. Anyone think bailey's 78"
cant hook would roll sections of this baby?


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## woodshop (Oct 30, 2006)

aquan8tor said:


> What are people's results with different cant hooks/peaveys?? I'm probably going to be alone with this tree. I might be able to enlist one person to help move some of the trunk sections, but I need a cant hook that I can depend on. What's the biggest that is available?? I cant find one bigger than 60", which I dont think is enough to move a log this big. Any thoughts??
> HELP!


One of the reasons few make cant hooks bigger than 60 inches, and also ones that only grab well up to say 20 inches, is because any bigger than that and we are talking upwards of half ton and more of log. Don't know about you, but moving that much weight from a dead rest would be pretty tough for me. I use a floor jack to move anything over 15 inches. I use the cant hook only when I get that monster into say 14x14 cants, and even then its a chore. I often start raising the cant with the floor jack till its say 30 degrees off the ground, and THEN put the cant hook on it to push it over the rest of the way. That way you are not lifting all that weight from a dead rest on the ground.


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## aquan8tor (Oct 30, 2006)

I'm just worried about even getting in to be able to slab it!! Once I get it cut at the crown, I'll have to cut cookies out just to be able to get the alaskan into the cutting position! I really want to quarter saw this one. I'll probably end up bringing the ripsaw into the woods with a cart & quartering the log so that I can quartersaw it. Have you ever used your ripsaw at an angle?? If I can get it quartered by just plunging the bar in (20" so I just get about halfway) with a ripping chain on it in my mini-mill to get some quarter-sections, I'd like to put the quarter up on some notched blocks & alternate cutting on either surface to get real quartersawn boards. They'd only be one square edge and different widths, but they'd hopefully have some beautiful grain. This is all about a month away anyway. I've got a 20" cherry to deal with first.


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## aquan8tor (Oct 30, 2006)

I just looked at your pics from your big oak. Are you using the jack to roll the log sections??


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## woodshop (Oct 30, 2006)

btw... a huge tree that far back and inaccessible is a perfect candidate for my csm/ripsaw method. I also like the idea somebody mentioned of maybe milling into cants and then putting a chain around them to winch/haul them down that hill to the flats where you can mill them easier.


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## aquan8tor (Oct 30, 2006)

Its got to go up a hill unfortunately. Its on a flat now, so sawing would be easy. But, and its a big but; the flat its on is kind of a terrace in between an accessible area and a completely inaccessible area.


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## woodshop (Oct 30, 2006)

aquan8tor said:


> I'm just worried about even getting in to be able to slab it!! Once I get it cut at the crown, I'll have to cut cookies out just to be able to get the alaskan into the cutting position!


No need to waste good log by cutting cookies out of it just to mill it... like I said, use a floor jack to move it out of the way after you cut it into 8 ft (or whatever size) logs.


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## aquan8tor (Oct 30, 2006)

I didn't think it would work. SWEET. If you've done it, then I've got my solution. YOUDAMAN. Thanks. I didn't get for some reason that you were rolling them with the jack. Do you flip your cant between sawing to quartersaw it??


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## woodshop (Oct 30, 2006)

aquan8tor said:


> Its got to go up a hill unfortunately. Its on a flat now, so sawing would be easy. But, and its a big but; the flat its on is kind of a terrace in between an accessible area and a completely inaccessible area.


UP a hill... that's different. Then you're only options unless you know somebody with a skidder, is to mill it where it sits and haul the boards up that hill a few at a time in a wagon. I've done that... slow but eventually you get there. That's assuming you can even get a wagon to it. You did say inaccessible. 

btw, just curious who is that pretty women in your pics? Would that be Mrs aquan8tor?


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## Adkpk (Oct 30, 2006)

Is that quicksand? Never seen something so stuck in the mud before. Is there an explanation for how that happened? 
I would drill a hole on the underside of the trunk, drive a 12" spike into it. Hook a chain onto the spike and form the opposite side try to roll it out of that hole with a come along. Is there a big tree to use as a dead man? Also if you double it back you can give yourself twice the pulling power.


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## aquan8tor (Oct 30, 2006)

The woman is my girlfriend, and yes, she is a sweetie. I think I can get a wagon down the hill. I just dont trust getting the tacoma down the hill. It only has a 6 foot bed anyway, so keeping the boards inside might be a little tricky on the way out anyway. 

As far as the mud is concerned, the location is at the bottom of a big ridge, and we've had a HUGE amount of rain lately. The flat area isnt quite perfectly flat, so the weight of the canopy of the tree has been pulling the tree deeper into the mud. It may even spring back up a little bit after I get the crown detatched and a few log sections off. That is, itll spring back if I'm lucky. Last winter in a storm a pine went down, and I had to cut it to get to work. I was left with a 20' section standing straight up when I got home. The root ball had almost perfectly righted the tree.


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## woodshop (Oct 30, 2006)

aquan8tor said:


> It may even spring back up a little bit after I get the crown detatched and a few log sections off. That is, itll spring back if I'm lucky. Last winter in a storm a pine went down, and I had to cut it to get to work. I was left with a 20' section standing straight up when I got home. The root ball had almost perfectly righted the tree.



Same thing happened to me with an ash tree, but a little more suddenly. As soon as I cut the second 8 ft section the rest of the tree sprang up quickly, almost strait up, scared the $#$$%# out of me standing there still holding the saw as this thing took off towards the sky. There was a machete sticking in the log, which was now 18 feet up. Looked kinda silly. Took a little doing with a rope thrown up there to get it down.

Looks like you might have to dig a little to get a floor jack under that tree to move/roll it out of the way so you can mill it. Also, if that ground is soft, you might need a hunk of 2x6 under the jack... common sense of course, you don't need me to tell you that.


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## aquan8tor (Oct 30, 2006)

:biggrinbounce2: good point. I probably would've forgotten to take some pieces with me. It'll be a few weeks before I get to this one. Maybe even after thanksgiving. I'm in school full time now, so I work every weekend. Free time is a scarcity. I appreciate the suggestions, and especially your previous posts---almost a little guide, that I'll be following closely!


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## aggiewoodbutchr (Oct 31, 2006)

I'm no expert on the spar pole but this site has some good pictures of some in use. Basically it's using an existing tree to lift logs by means of ropes and pulleys. What I'm suggesting is, of course, on a much smaller scale. If you can't get a floor jack dug in enough to lift out the log it may be an option.


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## Sawmill_Bill (Oct 31, 2006)

*cant hook*

If you still want a cant hook, and I mean a CANT hook, go to www.logrite.com . They make theirs out of aluminum tubing. Strong, light and the hooks work! They make a "super stick", 78" of pure cant hooking fun. I got one and I love it. Not cheap, but what is money anyways  

If you call them, tell them "Hot Pink" sent you (it's a long story).


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## ASEMASTER (Nov 4, 2006)

*Real Big Tree*

It May Be Worth Your While To Hire A Skidder To Get That Tree Out To Where You Can Do The Work On It You Want, It Maybe Less Than You Think, If You Figure The Mishap Possibility's, Your Time And Energy. A Big One Will Bring The Tree Out In Two Hooks Including The Top You Can Sell For Fire Wood And Pay For Skidder.


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## aquan8tor (Nov 4, 2006)

I appreciate the response, but a skidder is impossible due to the location. The entire area that the tree is situated in is loose forest debris; nice loamy soil, and receives a huge amount of runoff from a nearby ridge. It stays soft. The area is my family's land, and they wouldn't want a huge skidder tearing up the place. It gets cut where it fell, or it doesn't get cut. 

Believe me, it wont be a picnic, and will be lots and lots of work. But, if I want it, I work it. Thanks.


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## aquan8tor (Nov 4, 2006)

I forgot to mention. About the location; you have to cross 3 fords through a river to the only access point to the property. Sometimes privacy has its downsides.


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## aggiewoodbutchr (Nov 5, 2006)

aquan8tor said:


> I forgot to mention. About the location; you have to cross 3 fords through a river to the only access point to the property. Sometimes privacy has its downsides.




I look at that as a plus. Keeps trespassing down and "visitors" away.


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## aggiewoodbutchr (Nov 5, 2006)

Sawmill_Bill said:


> If you still want a cant hook, and I mean a CANT hook, go to www.logrite.com . They make theirs out of aluminum tubing. Strong, light and the hooks work! They make a "super stick", 78" of pure cant hooking fun. I got one and I love it. Not cheap, but what is money anyways
> 
> If you call them, tell them "Hot Pink" sent you (it's a long story).



Mine came in this weekend. I ordered a 60" logrite cant hook from Bailey's after breaking my wood handled one and almost getting hurt. I don't think I'll have that problem with this one. This thing looks and feels bullet proof.


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## del schisler (Nov 6, 2006)

*picture resized*

i used IrfanView and redone 1 pic i belive it is around 62KB down from almost 1MB I use this program lot's del


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## aquan8tor (Nov 7, 2006)

thanks for the pic upload. I tried twice & couldn't get it to work. I'm really not that technically challenged. I'm picking up my new ripsaw on Friday morning!!!!!! I can't wait. I honestly have butterflies in my stomach just thinking about it. My little meager teeny stack of walnut is going to get some company next week sometime(cherry--not the white oak beast yet).

Later folks.


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## aquan8tor (Nov 29, 2006)

Well folks, I've got good news and bad news. The good news is that I had a really productive few days up at the farmhouse in the mountains. The bad news is that I walked the survey plat again with a compass, and DOH.

The tree is just slightly outside the property line. Turns out I made a little mistake by about 50 feet or so when I walked it the first time. I've gotten over the heartache of finding out it wasn't mine because of the large number of other trees on the property that I CAN saw up. I've got enough to keep me busy for a while. 

I still want to saw the tree up. I plan to approach the property owner and offer to mill it on my own time, and energy, etc, and with only veggie-oil bar oil, and to not damage other trees taking it out. 

So, what do you guys think would be a fair trade off/share to offer the property owner as an incentive for the deal?? I was thinking of offering 40% of the boards, because of the difficulty of access, and what I have to go through to get the cants out. I thought that 50-60% was more common. Not sure. Then, I thought I'd offer to cut the remainder into firewood sized pieces for the property owner. What would you do?? To give more information, there was a rift between my family and him over our caretakers, whom we recently fired because they were taking advantage of the property. Hopefully he'll at least be open to the possibility of getting some free wood without having to do any work. What would you offer???


Thanks folks.


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## oldsaw (Nov 29, 2006)

aggiewoodbutchr said:


> Mine came in this weekend. I ordered a 60" logrite cant hook from Bailey's after breaking my wood handled one and almost getting hurt. I don't think I'll have that problem with this one. This thing looks and feels bullet proof.



I got one and love it. Great piece of engineering.

Mark


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## aquan8tor (Nov 29, 2006)

I've got one on the way, with the log jack attatchment. unfortunately won't be using it any time soon on this monster, however. Anyone out there have any suggestions?


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## oneadam12 (Nov 29, 2006)

Have you thought about using 4" or 6" round post to "roll" the cut sections up the hill? You would still have to use at leat one come-a-long or chainfall. It does help with the heavy weight though.


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## aggiewoodbutchr (Nov 29, 2006)

aquan8tor said:


> Well folks, I've got good news and bad news. The good news is that I had a really productive few days up at the farmhouse in the mountains. The bad news is that I walked the survey plat again with a compass, and DOH.
> 
> The tree is just slightly outside the property line. Turns out I made a little mistake by about 50 feet or so when I walked it the first time. I've gotten over the heartache of finding out it wasn't mine because of the large number of other trees on the property that I CAN saw up. I've got enough to keep me busy for a while.
> 
> ...



Never hurts to ask. IMO 30% of lumber plus firewood would be a fair number considering the degree of difficulty this tree presents.


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## aquan8tor (Nov 30, 2006)

30% is a good number. There's certainly a lot of tree there, so maybe he'll go for that. At this point, I don't even know how to get in touch with the owner, so this conversation is all theory anyway. I appreciate the feedback.


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## B_Turner (Nov 30, 2006)

Sawmill_Bill said:


> If you still want a cant hook, and I mean a CANT hook, go to www.logrite.com . They make theirs out of aluminum tubing. Strong, light and the hooks work! They make a "super stick", 78" of pure cant hooking fun. I got one and I love it. Not cheap, but what is money anyways



Anyone else tried the 78 inch cant hook? Seems interesting but I wonder if it's too long to be manageble for rolling logs. 60 inches it seems would be good, but for the price difference I am wondering if it is worth going to the longer one.


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## aquan8tor (Nov 30, 2006)

Seems to me that unless you're rolling a truly GIANT log, you may as well just get a 24"-30" section of iron pipe for extra leverage over top of the cant hook for cheap at a hardware store. I know the hook is bigger on the monster hook or whatever they call it, but IMHO, is it really worth the extra $55?


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## aquan8tor (Nov 30, 2006)

Seems to me that unless you're rolling a truly GIANT log, you may as well just get a 24"-30" section of iron pipe for extra leverage over top of the cant hook for cheap at a hardware store. I know the hook is bigger on the monster hook or whatever they call it, but IMHO, is it really worth the extra $55?


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## B-Edwards (Dec 1, 2006)

I'm 99.9% its a White Oak. Where the trunk is buried , a guy who works for me would never think twice before he put the 3foot bar in the dirt.


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## doggonetrees (Dec 1, 2006)

Perhaps as you start cutting the top out, it will "work" its way back upright, allowing you to place wood under neath so you can roll logs. Root ball will assist in pulling tree upright- just watch out for it coming up too fast. Come-along pulling in the upright direction will also assist with this. This should help with the buried in mud ordeal. 30% of the wood seems fair- landowner might even have an easier access route in.


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## Sawmill_Bill (Dec 1, 2006)

*Cant hook*



aquan8tor said:


> Seems to me that unless you're rolling a truly GIANT log, you may as well just get a 24"-30" section of iron pipe for extra leverage over top of the cant hook for cheap at a hardware store. I know the hook is bigger on the monster hook or whatever they call it, but IMHO, is it really worth the extra $55?



Yes, it is all about the hook being larger that makes it worth the extra money. If you can make the smaller cant hook bite enough, then use it. But, with the extra torque of the 2' pipe, it will probably break out of the log at the most un-opportune time. I don't like landing on my bottom. JMO


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## wahoowad (Dec 1, 2006)

aquan8tor,

You say there was a rift between your family and this other landowner. You fired the caretaker who appeared to cause the problem. I'd 'mend the fence' first with a token seasonal gift from your family to theirs, mentioning you have taken steps to remedy the problem. Then touch base again a month or so later and see if they mind you milling that tree near your property boundary. From the looks of it, I don't see that tree going anywhere!


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## aquan8tor (Dec 1, 2006)

Now THAT is a good idea. Thanks there, wahoowad. 

forgot you said you were in earlysville. how's your friend's mill project going?


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## aquan8tor (Dec 7, 2006)

well, the neighbor actually called my mother the other day to talk! He wants to mend things too; I haven't talked to him yet, and I probably won't for some time to come yet. That tree isn't getting up and going anywhere anytime soon!!!!!!

On a side note, I do have a lewis winch on the way!!! managed to get one off ebay at the last minute for just over 300. I lucked out and noticed it right before the auction closed. We'll see if its up to the task of moving some giant cants (if I end up working something out) I'll test it on some big cherry logs after new years(or however long it takes the winch to get here from BC).


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## Adkpk (Dec 7, 2006)

Aquan about the lewis, be careful for snags. Maybe make a little sled for yourself to use when dragging logs throught the woods. And make sure you get videos of the event. I wish I had taken video of mine in action and will certainly get pics and video next time. Good luck with that log we certianly want you to get that thing after all this posting.


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## 1953greg (Dec 10, 2006)

*aquan8tor*

looks like a cherry bark oak to me. if so then its the premier red oak species!

if that log is 36" (looks to me that it could be 40") your only chance of moving that log is by rolling it sideways. buck the tree from the top down but make your bucking marks from the bottom up to make proper length selection. maybe as the top gets lighter the trunk wil raise some. cut the little stuff in front of the log roll, dig out from underneath bout 2' inside where u buck it, so to get 2 chains/cable underneath. also if you dont want to put the tip of your bar in the dirt, dig out under the stump cut. i just cut everything where i am sure not to touch dirt/rocks first then finish each cut. anchor the underneath ends of the chain/cable to another nearby tree/stump. now attach the over top ends of the chain/cable together to your winch. u can roll it sideways that way to get it up out of the mud. dosent take a lot of power to roll this way. can even roll it up on some 
6"-8" logs w/ tapered ends. 

i have handled logs this way. largest was 13' x 46" cherry bark oak. it is doable but only only if you get some chains/cable underneath for rolling. u arent dragging that log anywhere w/o some major major equipment. 

once u get it rolled up n out u can have at it w/ the mill. try to remove as much bark as possible. keeps the chain sharper longer.


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