# Wood Splitter Stalls when Ram is retracting



## NewBostonMaine (Nov 16, 2011)

New to this site - lots of information I have been missing, but first . . .
All of a sudden I feel so stupid.
I have borrowed a friend's splitter. Virtually no manufacturing markings, almost looks home-made by a very talented do-it-yourselfer (quality welds, etc.)
This critter worked like a champ for a couple hours, then all of a sudden when the ram is retracting (requires manual operation of the valve) the speed of the ram returning to the cylinder slows down, loads the engine, sometimes squealing such as a pressure valve in vehicle's power steering system, and if the valve is kept in the retract position, the engine will stall.

The engine is a B&S (6Hp?) horizontal shaft to a direct driven pump. 
There is a spin-on filter to the inlet of the pump (changed)
Horizontal ram (didn't measure, but ram probably has a 24" reach)
Wedge is stationary and ram has a flat plate.
Checked fluid level (no guage) but did add to bring up level, no visible leaks

When splitting, engine idles, and only loads slightly when splitting
When the valve lever is reversed to retract the ram, that is when the problem is evident.

All my searches for answers talk about the engine loading and stalling when splitting, but never when the ram is retracting. 
Does anybody have any ideas on this one?
Thank you in advance.
~ Michael


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## CJ1 (Nov 16, 2011)

Sounds like something broke loose in the cyl and is plugging up a port to me. Pull lines off of cyl and look inside is the first place to start.
CJ


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## ponyexpress976 (Nov 16, 2011)

Might sound goofy but is the push plate binding on the return...saw a homebuilt one that did the exact opposite. would bind on the way out but retract just fine.


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## 1harlowr (Nov 16, 2011)

If I loaned a splitter out I'd be upset if someone started pulling lines etc trying to "fix" my splitter. There would be a few friends that I wouldn't mind because they know more than I do and I trust them.

Better call him


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## NewBostonMaine (Nov 16, 2011)

Hello again,
Oh, I've already called. He's got no clue.
I'm a retired ASE CMAT so I know what I'm doing mechanically, just hydraulic experience has been rather limited.
Gonna pull the lines off tomorrow morning and see if I can find an obstruction. I'll also disconnect the push plate and see if it moves freely back and forth on the rail, but since the forward motion is effortless, I'm not sure if that would be an issue, but I don't want to overlook something simple. (KISS, right?)
This site is a great resource!
~ Michael


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## triptester (Nov 16, 2011)

Binding would be the first possible cause. Second would be a control valve problem. At the back of the valve whether spring centered or detented is a spring, stud ,and a few other parts depending on valve type. If any of these parts are loose or broken they can restrict the full travel of the spool which could block the flow of fluid causig stall.

Attached is a link for Prince control valves.
Find one that looks something like yours then on the right side click on instruction sheet. This might help with a valve problem.

Hydraulic Monoblock Directional Control Valves


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## kevin j (Nov 16, 2011)

If the valve checks out, try switching the hoses at BOTH ends so the old A hose is on B, and old B hose is on A. See if the problem changes. Or flip the hoses end for end, so the A is still A, but the cylinder end is now at the valve and valve end is connected to cylinder. 

I have seen hose liners, the inner tube, start to come loose, then the rubber flap acts as a check valve that allows flow on direction and not another. It is fairly common on auto brake hoses also. Brakes apply, won't release due to the rubber liner flap. 

Possibly a bit of hose rubber in the closed side of cylinder blocking the port. Does it do it every stroke, or jsut occasionally? Every stroke, then not likely in the cylinder. 

Another possibility is some restriction in the return line. Although the oil goes through the return both extend and retract, on retract the flow out of the Cl end is about 30% higher due to area difference.


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## CJ1 (Nov 17, 2011)

triptester said:


> Binding would be the first possible cause. Second would be a control valve problem. At the back of the valve whether spring centered or detented is a spring, stud ,and a few other parts depending on valve type. If any of these parts are loose or broken they can restrict the full travel of the spool which could block the flow of fluid causig stall.
> 
> Attached is a link for Prince control valves.
> Find one that looks something like yours then on the right side click on instruction sheet. This might help with a valve problem.
> ...



The way a control valve is designed the return path and pressure path are opened at the same time. Now if the valve has a transition check that could be causing a problem but very doubtfull. With out knowing what valve it is hard to say. In over 20 years of doing hydraulics I have yet to see a valve fail in this manner. I have had quite a few air shifts come loose but they either will not actuate or stick actuated. Like you said binding would be the first thing to check but that should have been easy to detect. CJ


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## CJ1 (Nov 17, 2011)

cmsmoke said:


> Does it have a filter? If it is on the return side I would check/replace it first. More oil flows through while retracting than extending. Could be the restriction you're looking for.



The fiter would instantly blow off if the bypass stuck letting it build pressure, makes a big mess quick. A filter will not take much over 200-300psi. CJ


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## Somesawguy (Nov 17, 2011)

I think you're on the right track. 
Disconnect the pusher plate and see if it moves back and forth ok. If it does, then there is something binding up on the slider. I squirt some bar oil on mine, but that's a debate for another day. 

If it's still acting up with the plate removed, then you'll have to figure out where the obstruction is. You could disconnect the ram end of the cylinder and see if you're getting good flow from the hose that feeds the cylinder. 

If that's ok, then it's probably a obstruction in the return somewhere. 

I work down the Road in Westbrook.

Can you take some pictures of your setup?


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## CJ1 (Nov 17, 2011)

kevin j said:


> If the valve checks out, try switching the hoses at BOTH ends so the old A hose is on B, and old B hose is on A. See if the problem changes. Or flip the hoses end for end, so the A is still A, but the cylinder end is now at the valve and valve end is connected to cylinder.
> 
> I have seen hose liners, the inner tube, start to come loose, then the rubber flap acts as a check valve that allows flow on direction and not another. It is fairly common on auto brake hoses also. Brakes apply, won't release due to the rubber liner flap.
> 
> ...



Usually when the hose degrades on the inside, the fluid will blow out the cover. But I agree the system is seeing some kind of blockage intermittantly. Thats why I would look into the return path of oil before the valve. A gauge on both lines at the cyl and if they both pressured up would tell you where to look. Now with all this being said I did run into a cylinder that the piston packing was sticking in the bore!!! that was a fun one to figure out. Any way it costs nothing to pull lines off and look in them along with the ports in the valve and cylinder. See if you can get the unit to pressure up, then shut it off, loosen the lines to be sure there in no pressure in them, then see what you find. CJ


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## NewBostonMaine (Nov 18, 2011)

Well, I spoke with the owner’s son-in-law and he indicated that this had happened when he had been using it a few years ago. What he had done, was to tighten the 4 threaded rods that run the length of the ram; 4 nuts on the back end, and the 4 nuts on the front end where the piston comes out of the cylinder. There was no leakage other than light seepage at the joint of the front plate and the cylinder housing.

I tightened these up, the most any of them turned was maybe 1/8 to 1/4 turn and that was only on a couple of them.

We are now back to working as before, smooth operation in and out, engine loads slightly when the ram forces a log against the wedge and then when retracting, but only slightly.

I’m trying to wrap my head around what was going on, though.

Thanks for all of your suggestions. Maybe I can return the favor sometime.

~ Michael


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## NewBostonMaine (Nov 18, 2011)

Well, I spoke with the owner’s son-in-law and he indicated that this had happened when he had been using it a few years ago. What he had done, was to tighten the 4 threaded rods that run the length of the ram; 4 nuts on the back end, and the 4 nuts on the front end where the piston comes out of the cylinder. There was no leakage other than light seepage at the joint of the front plate and the cylinder housing.

I tightened these up, the most any of them turned was maybe 1/8 to 1/4 turn and that was only on a couple of them.

We are now back to working as before, smooth operation in and out, engine loads slightly when the ram forces a log against the wedge and then when retracting, but only slightly.

I’m trying to wrap my head around what was going on, though.

Thanks for all your suggestions.

~ Michael


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## milkie62 (Nov 20, 2011)

But I think if he had restricted flow it would just be slow ,not squeal and stall.I would take hoses off and do a push forward and back by hand or hook them up to a air tank and gently work the cylinder with air.That way you could say the cylinder is good.Sounds like binding to me mechanically.


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