# Falling pics 11/25/09



## Burvol

Here is a couple of pics from today. I just snapped a couple with my cell phone. I am not in any of them. Nothing too special, just thought I'd share. 







Here is my Dad stumping a nice fir. This wood is really tall. 






This is my tree killer. Dude is a hell of a timber faller, nice guy, wise, and very gracious, just like my Dad. 






Steve pulling a block out face. It will hold the tree on the stump longer. He used it in this case because of a small hump in the lay, about 80 feet out. This is really, ripe, tall wood. The longer it stays on the stump on ground like this, the less likely it will break.


I am fortunate to cut with these two. We bet parts of our lunches on lay and save outs, share tips and ideas, and just have fun. We put the wood down too. Known Steve since I was born. These guys have paid their dues and are very smart, smooth timber fallers. I'm having a good time in this unit.


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## slowp

Nice looking timber, nice looking day and where do you find all the flat ground?

Good pictures, good to see work going on in the woods.


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## SAW

Good pics and good to see people who really take pride in their work. 

I always enjoy looking at pics of nice timber getting cut.


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## Cedarkerf

Amazing what you can do with a cell phone cool pics


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## Burvol

slowp said:


> Nice looking timber, nice looking day and where do you find all the flat ground?
> 
> Good pictures, good to see work going on in the woods.



Export Mang! 

Domestic market here is toilet. I think firewood permits would make more money for the top logs.


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## pinemartin

Hows the fingers doing?


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## Burvol

pinemartin said:


> Hows the fingers doing?



Better, cut 5 loads today. Did 4 hours to warm up yesterday. It hurts, but the stitches are holding and I'm being really careful with it.


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## joesawer

Burvol said:


> Better, cut 5 loads today. Did 4 hours to warm up yesterday. It hurts, but the stitches are holding and I'm being really careful with it.



Nice pics, thanks for sharing. I always wish that I had more pics of work. It is just really hard to work and take pics.
Take care of that hand!
It doesn't get any better than good trees and good people! Some jobs are the stuff that dreams are made of! 
Most people hate their job and the people they have to work with and look down their nose at us. Lol.


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## Burvol

joesawer said:


> Nice pics, thanks for sharing. I always wish that I had more pics of work. It is just really hard to work and take pics.
> Take care of that hand!
> It doesn't get any better than good trees and good people! Some jobs are the stuff that dreams are made of!
> Most people hate their job and the people they have to work with and look down their nose at us. Lol.



Thanks Joe. I agree it's hard. I just pulled my phone out of my hickory pocket and snapped a few.

People will always look down on us, but you know as well as I, that they could not do our job. Not being arrogant, just plain truthful. Being a good faller is not only production and quality, but reliability and the grind of a whole season. The general population is fairly soft. Think about even 50 years ago. Everyone worked hard. People are needed in all occupations, but when they snub us like you speak of, it makes me laugh.


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## joesawer

Burvol said:


> Thanks Joe. I agree it's hard. I just pulled my phone out of my hickory pocket and snapped a few.
> 
> People will always look down on us, but you know as well as I, that they could not do our job. Not being arrogant, just plain truthful. Being a good faller is not only production and quality, but reliability and the grind of a whole season. The general population is fairly soft. Think about even 50 years ago. Everyone worked hard. People are needed in all occupations, but when they snub us like you speak of, it makes me laugh.




Well said.
It just kills me when some one comes out from some office with some new safety rule to enforce on me. They stand on the road and wonder how to even get to the trees but they want to tell me how to do it safely in Sweden. 
Somehow it became disgraceful in this country to do a good honest job for a good honest wage, and even if you excel at it you are still just a dumb dirty labor. 
When I was a kid Paul Bunion was an American hero. My how quickly times change. 
I was thinking of you yesterday when I was trying to decide to bore cut a leaner. I guess I will post that in the right thread.


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## mdavlee

Those are some really good pics for a cell phone. Glad you're back at it.


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## Burvol

mdavlee said:


> Those are some really good pics for a cell phone. Glad you're back at it.



It's a Motorola Tundra, their heavy duty phone designed for military use.


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## slowp

Falling is the hardest job to get pictures of. You done good. How's the hand this morning?


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## Burvol

slowp said:


> Falling is the hardest job to get pictures of. You done good. How's the hand this morning?



It's sore, but it's healing. The laceration is healing sweet. Not that I care, but the scar is gonna be minimal. I took really good care of the dressings and was to clean it twice a day and use lots of neosporine. The internals of my finger are sore.


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## matt9923

Nice pictures, thanks for sharing! 
Hope the hand feel's better soon.


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## Burvol

matt9923 said:


> Nice pictures, thanks for sharing!
> Hope the hand feel's better soon.



Thanks Matt. Have a good Thanksgiving. Get Stuffed :greenchainsaw:


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## matt9923

Burvol said:


> Thanks Matt. Have a good Thanksgiving. Get Stuffed :greenchainsaw:



I will, Thanks! You to


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## Burvol

matt9923 said:


> I will, Thanks! You to



I plan on it, cooking a turkey and a ham. Smoked salmon dip and a bunch of homemade pies. Believe it or not, log cutters can cook too! I'm marrying my fiance' for her charm and good looks, not her cooking. LOL


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## matt9923

Burvol said:


> I plan on it, cooking a turkey and a ham. Smoked salmon dip and a bunch of homemade pies. Believe it or not, log cutters can cook too!



Yea, us guys can cook to... well not me but my brother was a chef for a few years, now hes a welder... makes some darn good eats. 
We always have to much food and beer, well maybe not to much beer.


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## Burvol

matt9923 said:


> Yea, us guys can cook to... well not me but my brother was a chef for a few years, now hes a welder... makes some darn good eats.
> We always have to much food and beer, well maybe not to much beer.



I use to put it away! February will be 2 years sober for me. I was a piss drunk alchy for 7 years, hammered every damn day. I didn't quit forever, cause I'd take two days off and start going through the DT's. I finally just asked God for the strength and courage to do it, and I did. No meetings or pity partys. I wish I could knock some back today, but I'm better off. I'm definetly not anti, I usually have some good micros in my fridge for guests. 

I loved me some wine! What a spendy habit though.


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## dumbarky

I just realized another reason I like this site. These guys are real people. I know you guys are talking about with people being soft. I've cut wood thru out the season for 18-19 years for the public. I like it or I wouldn't do it. But I've never missed a meal and my kids don't do with out. I usually have a full time job but I need the extra income. Some folks probably look down on me but they are just looking for a reason too. My kids are helping me load now and my daughter even runs a hydro splitter some. I believe teaching them to work is as good for them as it was for me at that age. Yes they play video games and watch tv, they aren't deprived. I am not against fun but they help me some too. I've tried to teach um right and all. America is full of people that think you have to be popular or goodlooking or a athlete to be a hero. My idea of hero's is different. Most of the hero today have never hit a lick at a snake let along a full days work. I say if you like and you can make a living at it do it. I judge people by their heart not their job. I wish everyone could do the same.


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## matt9923

Burvol said:


> I use to put it away! February will be 2 years sober for me. I was a piss drunk alchy for 7 years, hammered every damn day. I didn't quit forever, cause I'd take two days off and start going through the DT's. I finally just asked God for the strength and courage to do it, and I did. No meetings or pity partys. I wish I could knock some back today, but I'm better off. I'm definetly not anti, I usually have some good micros in my fridge for guests.
> 
> I loved me some wine! What a spendy habit though.



Glad you could stop. My grandma died form it. 
Wine doesn't do it for me, maybe when i'm older...


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## Burvol

dumbarky said:


> I just realized another reason I like this site. These guys are real people. I know you guys are talking about with people being soft. I've cut wood thru out the season for 18-19 years for the public. I like it or I wouldn't do it. But I've never missed a meal and my kids don't do with out. I usually have a full time job but I need the extra income. Some folks probably look down on me but they are just looking for a reason too. My kids are helping me load now and my daughter even runs a hydro splitter some. I believe teaching them to work is as good for them as it was for me at that age. Yes they play video games and watch tv, they aren't deprived. I am not against fun but they help me some too. I've tried to teach um right and all. America is full of people that think you have to be popular or goodlooking or a athlete to be a hero. My idea of hero's is different. Most of the hero today have never hit a lick at a snake let along a full days work. I say if you like and you can make a living at it do it. I judge people by their heart not their job. I wish everyone could do the same.




Not that I have kids, but your a darn good man for teaching your kids to work. I hope you and your family have a good Thanksgiving. 

The lord loves a working man, that's what they say.


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## Burvol

I didn't grow up poor, but we were not super well off by no means. I always had good clothes to wear and good food to eat.

When I was 12 my Dad offered to start taking me wood cutting on Weekends and after school to make money. He sawed it, and I split and stacked the truck and unloaded on deliveries. He split it right down the middle (plus a little fuel money) and that's how I bought my first dirt bike, got my good fishing gear and truck.

My claim to fame at work is superior log quality and hard work. I thank my Dad for that.


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## coastalfaller

Burvol said:


> I didn't grow up poor, but we were not super well off by no means. I always had good clothes to wear and good food to eat.
> 
> When I was 12 my Dad offered to start taking me wood cutting on Weekends and after school to make money. He sawed it, and I split and stacked the truck and unloaded on deliveries. He split it right down the middle (plus a little fuel money) and that's how I bought my first dirt bike, got my good fishing gear and truck.
> 
> My claim to fame at work is superior log quality and hard work. I thank my Dad for that.



Me too. He taught me if you have a job to do, you put your head down and get at it, but do it right. Another simple and well known, but little practised tid bit he passed down was "never judge a book by it's cover".


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## Gologit

dumbarky said:


> I just realized another reason I like this site. These guys are real people. I know you guys are talking about with people being soft. I've cut wood thru out the season for 18-19 years for the public. I like it or I wouldn't do it. But I've never missed a meal and my kids don't do with out. I usually have a full time job but I need the extra income. Some folks probably look down on me but they are just looking for a reason too. My kids are helping me load now and my daughter even runs a hydro splitter some. I believe teaching them to work is as good for them as it was for me at that age. Yes they play video games and watch tv, they aren't deprived. I am not against fun but they help me some too. I've tried to teach um right and all. America is full of people that think you have to be popular or goodlooking or a athlete to be a hero. My idea of hero's is different. Most of the hero today have never hit a lick at a snake let along a full days work. I say if you like and you can make a living at it do it. I judge people by their heart not their job. I wish everyone could do the same.



 Good post. Hang around.


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## forestryworks

i'm not trying to be uppity or mr. know it all, just asking a question so i can learn. 

in that last pic, what was steve's reason for not putting in a snipe?

(if you guys in oregon call it that - i realize there's variance in falling terminology from one hill to the next.)

thanks for sharing the pics.


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## Burvol

forestryworks said:


> i'm not trying to be uppity or mr. know it all, just asking a question so i can learn.
> 
> in that last pic, what was steve's reason for not putting in a snipe?
> 
> (if you guys in oregon call it that - i realize there's variance in falling terminology from one hill to the next.)
> 
> thanks for sharing the pics.



A snipe kicks the butt off the stump and puts it in the ground, a block out face keeps it hooked up longer. A snipe (or Swanson cut, a really steep face, Canadian term) is typically used on steep terrain going down hill or other similar applications. Since the hump in the lay would break the wood (120-160ft tall), it needs to stay hooked up as long as possible. The log hits the ground evenly, not top or butt first, make sense? 

Sorry I didn't get back to ya in your PM bud. I wasn't delibertly ignoring ya. Hope you are having a good thanksgiving!


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## slowp

I just finished the house cleaning, the turkey is in the oven, rolls (store bought) are rising. Now we wait for company. The Used Dog is whining because he is banished outdoors for a while Time for a break then, how do you make REAL mashed potatoes? How long to boil potatoes? Strike that last one, you boil them until they are soft. 

This is hard because I am a nuker of potatoes. 

Do not worry, I have a Sunset Magazine recipe for some kind of jazzed up mashed potatoes! 

Have a good one everybody. Today it is acceptable to wear elastic waist pants.


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## pinemartin

Burvol said:


> I plan on it, cooking a turkey and a ham. Smoked salmon dip and a bunch of homemade pies. Believe it or not, log cutters can cook too! I'm marrying my fiance' for her charm and good looks, not her cooking. LOL



Pictures?? lol


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## Cedarkerf

slowp said:


> I just finished the house cleaning, the turkey is in the oven, rolls (store bought) are rising. Now we wait for company. The Used Dog is whining because he is banished outdoors for a while Time for a break then, how do you make REAL mashed potatoes? How long to boil potatoes? Strike that last one, you boil them until they are soft.
> 
> This is hard because I am a nuker of potatoes.
> 
> Do not worry, I have a Sunset Magazine recipe for some kind of jazzed up mashed potatoes!
> 
> Have a good one everybody. Today it is acceptable to wear elastic waist pants.


I just got mom to bring them her mashed taters are a family legend. I have stuffed and cooked our turkey since Mntngal and I have been together. I think real men should be able to cook just one more way they can take care of the family.


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## smokechase II

*Photo 3*

The block face:

Thanks for the quick explanation too.

*"Steve pulling a block out face. It will hold the tree on the stump longer. He used it in this case because of a small hump in the lay, about 80 feet out. This is really, ripe, tall wood. The longer it stays on the stump on ground like this, the less likely it will break."*

--------------

The Scandinavian guys just don't realize among other things, that:
1) The power with which larger timber and taller trees come over. 
2) That an open face is not the one cut fits all.

===========

For the beginner on this particular discussion may I add the reason the block will hold longer is that a larger area is available to flex than with either a Humboldt, Conventional or Open Face.

That greater flex allows for longer hold than a pointed face can.

Caveat, your timber may vary and the benefit may be minimal.

=========

That picture of your Dad is a classic.

You can see the tree is just going and that is about the most important time to look up. His posture shows that he has done that before and his physique does the same. 

--------

Happy Turkey. My countdown is 1.5 hours.
Just got sent to the store.


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## joesawer

I have posted about using a snipe on a block out face before. 
I said that one is almost always needed. I was referring to a narrower ratio on the block. Once the two round edges meet as the face closes it tends to cam the tree around if one side of the hinge breaks first. 
On that tree with that big of a block out the tree will be well over before the face closes.
Smoke chase is right. the block out will allow the fibers to bend at a large radius instead of around a sharp corner.


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## forestryworks

Burvol said:


> A snipe kicks the butt off the stump and puts it in the ground, a block out face keeps it hooked up longer. A snipe (or Swanson cut, a really steep face, Canadian term) is typically used on steep terrain going down hill or other similar applications. Since the hump in the lay would break the wood (120-160ft tall), it needs to stay hooked up as long as possible. The log hits the ground evenly, not top or butt first, make sense?
> 
> Sorry I didn't get back to ya in your PM bud. I wasn't delibertly ignoring ya. Hope you are having a good thanksgiving!



thanks for the explanation.

hope your thanksgiving is well too.


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## Greystoke

*Steve*



> This is my tree killer. Dude is a hell of a timber faller, nice guy, wise, and very gracious, just like my Dad.



Yep, he is a hell of a Timber Faller...I agree with everything you said about him! I have worked with him a bunch, and when I saw these pics I was like..."hey, that's Steve"! So I called him today. He helped me out of the brush once in Humboldt when I went for a ride down the mountain with a couple of small redwoods. Thanks for posting the pics of somebody who definitely deserves respect


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## bitzer

All I know is, I grew up in the wrong part of the country. I'd love to pack it up and move out west to do that type of felling. Very true on hard work and the next generation. I do a lot of carpentry on the side for extra income and I get my kids interested and involved. My 3 year old boy was snappin chalk lines with me the other day and marking measurements. My daughters (8 and 4) get involved too, they both know what a biscuit jointer is and helped build our kitchen table that we eat dinner at every night. There is way too much softness in the world today. I'm trying to make sure my kids know whats right. 

Great pics and thanks for sharing!


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## MR4WD

Them old boys you work with remind me of a few in my trade. Still sharp as a tack, seen a lot and only teach the fellas that deserve it. I learn all day either from their stories or their wisdom.

I wish there was more money in timber. I could do that for a livin easy.

Question though, on flatter ground, how come you guys are hand fallin? That looks like processor ground out here. That's a cuss word, I know... 

Heel up quick. There's no money to be made laid up!


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## slowp

I'll take a stab and guess that those trees are too heavy for a buncher. They look to be right at the limit. There were trees of that size on a sale here and they had to hand fall them as they were too tall and heavy. It is the height + weight more than diameter that is a limiting factor. 

The potatoes turned out along with everything else.


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## Gologit

MR4WD said:


> Them old boys you work with remind me of a few in my trade. Still sharp as a tack, seen a lot and only teach the fellas that deserve it. I learn all day either from their stories or their wisdom.
> 
> I wish there was more money in timber. I could do that for a livin easy.
> 
> Question though, on flatter ground, how come you guys are hand fallin? That looks like processor ground out here. That's a cuss word, I know...
> 
> Heel up quick. There's no money to be made laid up!



You're right...it is a cuss word. The use of a feller buncher usually comes down to money. If there's enough work for it, and it takes a lot, to make it worthwhile to pay the costs of moving one in, using it, and moving it back out they'll get used. It's not worth it, though, to move one in for just a few trees.

And that makes more work for fallers. 

I was offered a job running one of those things. I said no. I'll run Cat, loader, skidder, spent a couple of really boring days on a stroker delimber once...hell, I'll even drive truck. But running a feller buncher just kinda seems like treason somehow.


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## Burvol

slowp said:


> I'll take a stab and guess that those trees are too heavy for a buncher. They look to be right at the limit. There were trees of that size on a sale here and they had to hand fall them as they were too tall and heavy. It is the height + weight more than diameter that is a limiting factor.
> 
> The potatoes turned out along with everything else.




Yes there is a lot of big wood that is tall, but the ground is only flat for short distances, really broken up, draws, ridges, ect. trees longer than the ground in spots, and some steep areas.


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## Hayubusa

Burvol said:


> Thanks Joe. I agree it's hard. I just pulled my phone out of my hickory pocket and snapped a few.
> 
> People will always look down on us, but you know as well as I, that they could not do our job. Not being arrogant, just plain truthful. Being a good faller is not only production and quality, but reliability and the grind of a whole season. The general population is fairly soft. Think about even 50 years ago. Everyone worked hard. People are needed in all occupations, but when they snub us like you speak of, it makes me laugh.



Great Pics thanks for posting them - you couldnt be more right, there arent too many people out there that could do your job. I work in a well air conditioned / heated office and you wouldnt believe the things people in here complain about! I kind of lucked out getting the job I have had for the last 10 years but prior to this I was in the Marine Corps infantry for 4 years, so I'm well aware of what real work is like and I'll be the first to say your job definately looks harder than anything I've ever done. Keep up the good work!


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## MR4WD

Burvol said:


> Yes there is a lot of big wood that is tall, but the ground is only flat for short distances, really broken up, draws, ridges, ect. trees longer than the ground in spots, and some steep areas.



Gotcha! I should come down there one day and hang out with some fallers and learn some stuff.

Keep the pics coming, I always enjoy em.

Stay safe.


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## deeker

Here are some pics of a dying spruce take down.

It is the 088 with a 3 foot bar in front of the tree. Huge butt swell, and it was harder wood than I expected.







The top hit the ground before the tree really started to fall over....wedges...






The trunk, heading for my sawmill...then back as table tops in the spring.






It was not the best cut....but the top missed me!!!


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## dancan

tarzanstree said:


> He helped me out of the brush once in Humboldt when I went for a ride down the mountain with a couple of small redwoods.



Doesn't sound like a fun ride but this and Burvol's incident show that keeping a cool head and working with people that know how to keep a cool head are a big part of going home at the end of the day .


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## fmaglin

Burvol said:


> A snipe kicks the butt off the stump and puts it in the ground, a block out face keeps it hooked up longer. A snipe (or Swanson cut, a really steep face, Canadian term) is typically used on steep terrain going down hill or other similar applications. Since the hump in the lay would break the wood (120-160ft tall), it needs to stay hooked up as long as possible. The log hits the ground evenly, not top or butt first, make sense?
> 
> Sorry I didn't get back to ya in your PM bud. I wasn't delibertly ignoring ya. Hope you are having a good thanksgiving!


 Just wondering if the Block Out Face does the same as a Sez Wheel?


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## 056 kid

HAY, BURVOL, 


when you gonna gonna give me a reply on my river???


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## oregoncutter

Gologit said:


> You're right...it is a cuss word. The use of a feller buncher usually comes down to money. If there's enough work for it, and it takes a lot, to make it worthwhile to pay the costs of moving one in, using it, and moving it back out they'll get used. It's not worth it, though, to move one in for just a few trees.
> 
> And that makes more work for fallers.
> 
> I was offered a job running one of those things. I said no. I'll run Cat, loader, skidder, spent a couple of really boring days on a stroker delimber once...hell, I'll even drive truck. But running a feller buncher just kinda seems like treason somehow.



:agree2:
It doe's seem like treason I have ran bunchers on jobs before when it comes time to feed the family, that takes precedence over all else. There not all bad the last one I ran would only handle up to a 24'' tree. The patch I was in had alot of sticks well over that ( kept my 372 stuffed behind the seat just in case), but majority was handled with the buncher. The pics remind me of my dad and uncles they cut into their late 60s and early 70s, before semi retiring. Between technology, and a poor market I fear the trade may go the way of manual machinists, I just hope enough young intellegent guys keep an interest in the trade to not loose the history and knowledge passed down from the old guys. Logging has kept mine and alot of other families around here clothed and fed for alot of generations.


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## RandyMac




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## NC4TN

Great pics fellers! Great, because I love to watch people who know what they're doin' and doin' it right. Pride in their work is what it's all about.


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## Burvol

056 kid said:


> HAY, BURVOL,
> 
> 
> when you gonna gonna give me a reply on my river???





The Grande Ronde? 

Try Coon shrimp and bobber with either a number one or 1/0 hook with your shrimp rigged "through the back style". Try anywhere from 2-5 feet off the bottom. Works well on the B run down here in the Columbia. Black and purple Maribou style jigs fished in the same manner works well too. 

A great idea to learn what is going on in a new fishery is to go down and watch the guys that are slaying them.


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## Burvol

RandyMac said:


>



Hey, 

I look up and see that picture of a big Pine with a step in it.....How's it going Randy?


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## rmihalek

*block + Humboldt?*

What if you made the block face as usual but then angled the bottom with a Humboldt to hold the stem on the stump even longer? You can see the stem contacting the stump at about 45 degree lean. With a Humboldt thrown in there, it looks like it would hold even longer.


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## hammerlogging

*rain day*

if you look closely it looks like hes got a snipe in the butt log which essentially opens the face a bit more before the face closes. The hinge performs diferently with the block because the whole hinge can pull off- when the log hits the ground you can end up with the hinge sticking out the 3 inches from it breaking down the block face- thus the peeling off the stump differently than with a non-blocked face. But, the snipe does what you are asking about- can be on the stump too.

Ourloadermanhas scratched his head more than a few times as i send in more and more of these funky butts, I definately enjoy working these various techniques where I can-- poplars and other softwoods that grow tall and straight like ya'lls timber, and some tall and straight oaks/hickories but NO REAL TIMBER cause, I guess you'd have to stand next to it to understand, but not ______ing it (don't even want to say it anymore) you'd be crazy- barberchair central. No real timber except for the soft hardwoods.


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## RandyMac

Burvol!!!
I'm doing good, feeling the wear, but that is expected, I earned most of it.

I sniped the stump on that Sugar Pine, I've got a pic of it somewhere, lost in the archives.

Step cut and sniped





I lost about 50 feet when it hit the road, was about 36" at the break.





Hah, what a mess, and we were being careful.


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## Burvol

Randy,

You were a renegade. I know it! LOL


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## Greystoke

RandyMac said:


> Burvol!!!
> I'm doing good, feeling the wear, but that is expected, I earned most of it.
> 
> I sniped the stump on that Sugar Pine, I've got a pic of it somewhere, lost in the archives.
> 
> Step cut and sniped
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I lost about 50 feet when it hit the road, was about 36" at the break.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hah, what a mess, and we were being careful.



Looked good to me! It seems like no matter how careful you are with those dang brittle redwood, you at least get some mess. Nice pics Randy  Wish I could rep ya!


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## Metals406

Watch this cool "back-slip" technique Jack uses to help save-out this tree. Very cool technique!!

http://www.youtube.com/user/hotsaws101#p/u/27/LLDEUZ6z7rE

I'd love to pack his saw and fuel for a week or two, and learn some of his more technical procedures'.


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## RandyMac

Renegade and Pirate LOL





that was my first solo Redwood, I got some of the ones that the Master decided were good training, but were rotten, like that one or were going to bust up anyway, like that one, I wasn't expirienced enough to fall the prime trees. I did get to do a few really nice trees, but mostly the ugly ones.


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## Burvol

Went to the east to cut pine the last two days. Picture of some tools and my 390 with a 32" and full comp. I kinda high stumped last one right behind another.


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## 056 kid

Look at them baby trees..


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## MR4WD

Burvol said:


> Went to the east to cut pine the last two days. Picture of some tools and my 390 with a 32" and full comp. I kinda high stumped last one right behind another.



Pretty new lookin saw! How sticky do you end up after cuttin pine all day? :yourock:

What market does the pine supply?

On another side note, has there ever been any thought given to cutting stumps flush after falling what's merchable, or do you just leave it for the next guy, just like the guy before you did?

PS, when you get tired of looking at your chains, send em my way. I could use some sharp, full comp square.


----------



## Burvol

MR4WD said:


> Pretty new lookin saw! How sticky do you end up after cuttin pine all day? :yourock:
> 
> What market does the pine supply?
> 
> On another side note, has there ever been any thought given to cutting stumps flush after falling what's merchable, or do you just leave it for the next guy, just like the guy before you did?
> 
> PS, when you get tired of looking at your chains, send em my way. I could use some sharp, full comp square.



My second day on that saw. I love it, tons of snort and oh so fast. Had it built by a great saw builder here in Oregon. I high stumped that last tree cause I had another stump right infront of it, kinda made it tight. Stumps just rot away. Not sure what their doing with this wood, some of it is pretty decent wood. It's all about 24-36" on the stump, and fairly tall, perfect sized wood to keep you engaged and rolling all day


----------



## forestryworks

Burvol said:


> Went to the east to cut pine the last two days. Picture of some tools and my 390 with a 32" and full comp. I kinda high stumped last one right behind another.



is that ponderosa?


----------



## Curlycherry1

Buncher Fellers are a dirty word to some but for speed they cannot be beat. I have seen a big John Deere wheeled one in action and I cannot walk between trees as fast as that thing could mow them down. It was capable of grabbing more than one tree as it moved through the woods. Speed is a big factor and safety is another one. Getting the operator into a safe cab can keep accidents and insurance claims down.

Just this morning I saw a feller buncher being moved on the highway that was the biggest one I have ever seen. All 4 tires were wider than the trailer it was on and it had a lead and trailing escort so it was massive. It was mostly red with some black trim. It was going the opposite direction on the highway so I did not get a good look at it, so I could not get the make and model. Anyone know what brand that beast was? As I said it was mostly red.


----------



## hammerlogging

Curlycherry1 said:


> Buncher Fellers are a dirty word to some but for speed they cannot be beat. I have seen a big John Deere wheeled one in action and I cannot walk between trees as fast as that thing could mow them down. It was capable of grabbing more than one tree as it moved through the woods. Speed is a big factor and safety is another one. Getting the operator into a safe cab can keep accidents and insurance claims down.
> 
> Just this morning I saw a feller buncher being moved on the highway that was the biggest one I have ever seen. All 4 tires were wider than the trailer it was on and it had a lead and trailing escort so it was massive. It was mostly red with some black trim. It was going the opposite direction on the highway so I did not get a good look at it, so I could not get the make and model. Anyone know what brand that beast was? As I said it was mostly red.



More than one tree-- thats the "buncher" part.
Mechanized, sure its got its place in the future- $/ton, productivity, etc., hopefully there will be big timber on steep ground for atleast a few more years!!!!! Thats the bulk of us handfallers work, that and small tracts. They're called feller####ers here. 
Paintjob sounds like a prentice. Maybe it had flotation tires (wide, for wet, instead of duallys)


----------



## hammerlogging

*try again*












Red, my bud. good faller, heart of gold, sizing up a pretty decent red oak, then backcutting a typical poplar. We'd earned this flat!!!! Finally cutting out the ridge after weeks of the steeps. About 2 months ago.


----------



## hammerlogging

*one more time*

not too hard

Here's a "its all flat ground east of the rockies" pic for 2dogs- thats our ground 





and a typical bore cut hickory stump with a 12" wedge for scale.


----------



## fmaglin

*nice pics*

Hey Hammer, thanks for sharing the great pics. Man, I wish I was out there!


----------



## Burvol

Brother Hammer,

Thank God you sent us that pic of Red. I'm glad to see folks out east using long bars. I was about ready to pull my hair out thinking of cutting logs with a 20" bar like all the arm chair cynics here say is best. Good deal. I know you boys got some ground out that way, it looks brushy like the PNW too. Anything poisonous out there? It looks like Laos, LOL 

Hope you guys are well and be safe. I went back to the west side to our Doug Fir juice patch. four 36's or three 40's and a short, nice ass wood. That pine was slick and fairly nice too, but my roots are cutting west side Doug Fir, I'm sure Jacob J. and a few others would agree from Oregon, it's the best wood to cut day in and day out. 

What do your fallers prefer in their strip for species?


----------



## slowp

Fashion wise you are similar too. Just replace that plaid with hickory and you'd be hard to tell apart from the guys out here. That ground is similar to here. Our slopes are a bit longer, some not so broken. Broken up slopes make for "challenging" yarding.


----------



## matt9923

Wedge look's like some of mine  
Where did you get that axe holder/box?


----------



## hammerlogging

Ms P. yeah, a little broken, less so up in the hollers. Yarding, either a long skyline across a big span, huge deflection, skyline 2200' or so, logging near slope or opposing slope, or our little yarder where a 1200' skyline and 900' of logging is champ. We're looking at 1000' to 1400' from creek to ridgetop.

The scabbards come from Madsens (someone in Idaho makes them) They're the bomb. Best way to carry an axe. I carry a #4, everyone else has the Fiskar 2.5 or 3 pounders. But they love my "pink hydraulic tree lifter" when they see me tip a heavy topped oak over backwards. pink handle, spray paint, of course. Axe head is sentimental, carried it several years now, in several states (all Appalachian), birthday present from the best wife ever, who lets me be a logger!

Burv: Poplar poplar poplar. Not our highest value, but the best damn cutting by far. A soft hardwood. tall and straight. often comes in patches. Like mowing the grass it is. A good poplar patch and you're really going to get the wood down. Volume wise-- a good, regular poplar patch is going to run 18-24 inches dbh, and have about 70' of sawlog or peeler material and a stick of pulpwood. We'll butt off the butt at 27' if its peeler material, or another length if its sawlog and peeler material at some other 2 foot increment plus trim. And like you're talking about, we can have hug 800mbf plus oaks, veneer and all that crap, but I'd rather slam through 500' polars all day than have a handful of thousand footers in my strip, fact is they're a pain-- huge limbs, tough topping. Poplar patches are going to be on north or east facing slopes, and at the heads of hollers. Red cut a 7' dbh poplar last year!!! Nobody could take it though sits at the log yard.

poplar (aka tulip poplar, yellow poplar, TN state tree)


----------



## Metals406

matt9923 said:


> Wedge look's like some of mine
> Where did you get that axe holder/box?



http://grizzlypeakenterprises.com/index.htm


----------



## Greystoke

*Feller Bunchers*

Southeast AK...by far the nastiest ground I ever encountered out of all the states that I worked in, (MT, ID, WA, OR, CA, CO, FL, AL). I would like to see Feller Bunchers that could handle these trees on this ground:

Lyman Anchorage, Prince of Wales Island, Southeast Alaska, 1996. I was eighteen years old, falling timber for Columbia Helicopters and I never dreamed that I would be cutting trees on this kind of ground, (not to mention all of the nasty snags that I had to cut) until this. This is a picture of my chainsaw buried in a Sitka Spruce atop of about an 80' bluff (wish I would have taken more pics, especially on Dall Island).






After I fell it, and it did not save out too good:






Here are some more pics of some broken up yarder ground on the North end of Prince of Wales Island:






These next couple of pics don't show it very well but there was a deep v-notch just below where I am bucking this spruce:











Fallin a hemlock. The guy that took this pic was on a bluff above me. Typical Southeast ground:






Cool action shots of it going over. Notice that it brushed some little trees on the bluff in the foreground; I had to knock those down with another tree cuz they were too dangerous to be under:


----------



## Greystoke

Continued:






Here is the tree that I had to use to clean up my mess:






Nailed em:











Here is a pic of a friend of mine, and a hell of a Timber Faller, falling a nice Sitka Spruce:


----------



## Cedarkerf

Great pics out of rep


----------



## fmaglin

*Nice pics*

Nice pictures Cody. It is sure interesting to see different terrain, different techniques, and different terminology that are inevitable with different parts of our country.


----------



## John Ellison

Great pictures Cody. Those capture S.E. ground really well. Another thing that tells you about S.E. Ak. You don't see skidders anywhere.
Thats a good shot of your friend with the springboard in the big spruce.


----------



## Jacob J.

Tarzanstree- great pics, that is some ugly, ugly ground. That v-notch is apparent, I see you you hung some flagging down there for the rigging crew.


----------



## 056 kid

Tarzan, the one of you laying on that spruce under bucking is a good-un!!


----------



## bitzer

Awesome pics Tarzan! Cool stuff to see!


----------



## Greystoke

Thanks for the comments guys...I just wish that I would have made it a priority to take more pictures in my career. Thank goodness I had some friends that took a few.


----------



## matt9923

tarzanstree said:


> Thanks for the comments guys...I just wish that I would have made it a priority to take more pictures in my career. Thank goodness I had some friends that took a few.



Great pictures, just Nova'd ya!!


----------



## fmaglin

*cheap axe sheath*

Here's a pic of the axe sheath I been using. Took me about 45 minutes to cut out and assemble. It has held up well so far; when it breaks I'll prolly make another. I'm using a 2.5# axe with a 20" straight handle.


----------



## matt9923

fmaglin said:


> Here's a pic of the axe sheath I been using. Took me about 45 minutes to cut out and assemble. It has held up well so far; when it breaks I'll prolly make another. I'm using a 2.5# axe with a 20" straight handle.



nice what did you use for belt loops?


----------



## smokechase II

*Well, you impressed me*

*"Tarzan, the one of you laying on that spruce under bucking is a good-un!!"*

Concur.


----------



## Meadow Beaver

All cool pics Cody, that looks like some seriously challenging ground to cut on, nice job.


----------



## Metals406

Nice pictures Cody! The computer gods' say I can't give you any rep yet.

You need to come up for a long weekend, so you can show me some felling techniques.


----------



## Jacob J.

Hammer put up some good pics too, looks like he's set-up like a western cutter. There's some serious ground going on there in WV.


----------



## slowp

I can't come close to those pictures. Nice job!! Looks like a bit of rot in those trees. Devils club too. 

Here's a couple of boring ones. Just took them of an area I've restarted working in. Road fixing is going on, maybe some hauling next week, and maybe a little logging later on. Most of the ground left is helicopter ground so that won't be logged yet.







This is a nice rocky peak that looked cool this morning. I'd like to do some hiking up there. 





The problem with this drainage is, it is a chilly area. The sun only shines about 20 minutes in the bottom this time of year. The loader operator timed it last year. And that is only when we happen to have sun.


----------



## Meadow Beaver

Oh Slowp stop teasin me, everybodies pics are makin me want to move out there more and more.


----------



## slowp

MMFaller39 said:


> Oh Slowp stop teasin me, everybodies pics are makin me want to move out there more and more.



You must make two leave before one can move here. They just had a story on the news about a well drilling moratorium in one of the river valleys. The Seattle people have turned I-90 and highway 2 into a parking lot, we have floods. The newspaper has an article about a family who was riding the roof of their house down a river 2 years ago today, we have to buy hard liquor in state liquor stores and it is spendy, we have high property and sales taxes, and did I mention the floods?


----------



## hammerlogging

beautiful pictures slowp


----------



## slowp

I forgot. An interesting tidbit was put in the contract. The helicopter is not to fly any higher than a specific elevation. There was a fear that the heliloggers would chase the mountain goats, which reside up there.

The heliloggers who have looked at it, break into a mad laugh when I answer their question of the reason for that restriction.


----------



## fmaglin

matt9923 said:


> nice what did you use for belt loops?


I had an old nylon belt from an old pair of chaps. I cut the pieces to fit my leather belt and attached the loops with wood screws. The sheath in the picture is made from tulip poplar. If it doesn't hold up my next one will be from white oak.


----------



## Greystoke

Metals406 said:


> Nice pictures Cody! The computer gods' say I can't give you any rep yet.
> 
> You need to come up for a long weekend, so you can show me some felling techniques.



You bet man


----------



## Greystoke

slowp said:


> I forgot. An interesting tidbit was put in the contract. The helicopter is not to fly any higher than a specific elevation. There was a fear that the heliloggers would chase the mountain goats, which reside up there.
> 
> The heliloggers who have looked at it, break into a mad laugh when I answer their question of the reason for that restriction.



That kinda reminds me of when I was working for Columbia in Humboldt County CA, and they ended up not being able to fly a unit that we had already cut because a lady who lived close to the unit said that the whirring of the helicopter blades was making her have seizures! PALCO ended up having to rock a road to the unit and conventional log it because they were worried that she would sue them


----------



## Greystoke

fmaglin said:


> Here's a pic of the axe sheath I been using. Took me about 45 minutes to cut out and assemble. It has held up well so far; when it breaks I'll prolly make another. I'm using a 2.5# axe with a 20" straight handle.



That's pretty cool!


----------



## Greystoke

hammerlogging said:


> beautiful pictures slowp



I concur


----------



## Burvol

Gunning a nice pine this morning. I look like a grouse all puffed up with my 4 layers on, 15 degrees when I pulled into the landing this morning. I look fat! LOL!!!! (Sound like a woman) My dad says I actually turned into a "skinny little bastard" the last few years, need to put more back on (180 from 210). 






Cleaning the last two inched of the other side. Not great pictures, but hey, I do exist! 

And I have on all my ppe on you PPE NAZIS!!! Glasses, Chaps, hat, full length leather caulks, ect. 

I even threw a pouch and some wedges and a maggie on to look like a cutter. I really work in an office and just write on here a lot.


----------



## 056 kid

Nice pics Hammer, but you need to show them some big-uns!

Guys just dont realize what kind of ground we got over there, & the timber, Like you mentioned, getting into those dark hollows full of giant poplars that are straight & round just like ponderosas. It dosent get any better than that for us..


----------



## Metals406

Burvol said:


> Gunning a nice pine this morning. I look like a grouse all puffed up with my 4 layers on, 15 degrees when I pulled into the landing this morning. I look fat! LOL!!!! (Sound like a woman) My dad says I actually turned into a "skinny little bastard" the last few years, need to put more back on (180 from 210).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cleaning the last two inched of the other side. Not great pictures, but hey, I do exist!
> 
> And I have on all my ppe on you PPE NAZIS!!! Glasses, Chaps, hat, full length leather caulks, ect.
> 
> I even threw a pouch and some wedges and a maggie on to look like a cutter. I really work in an office and just write on here a lot.



Man, those low Humboldts are a PITA to cut with a long bar. . . At least for me anyway. I still don't have all the various faces down pat yet. I grew up cutting the traditional exclusively. I was in my late teens before I knew you could face a tree any other way.

Nice picture Burvol! 

You're a lucky dog to be able to go out and make trees bleed. . . I'd love to go work in the woods again. 

The neighbors 160 acres was "thinned" for urban interface the last couple months. I knew the guy logging it, I used to work under his brothers yarder. Good thing I was at work welding all day, or I would have snuck over with the 670 or 372 and started dropping trees. LOL

I told Larry (the guy logging it) I would work for free if he let me drop some trees. . . He laughed and said, "You still don't have that out'a your system yet?" LOL


----------



## Burvol

Metals,

You will never get that out of your system. You're screwed bud.


----------



## Metals406

Burvol said:


> Metals,
> 
> You will never get that out of your system. You're screwed bud.



I know! LOL

Somehow, I don't feel bad about it either. Hahahaha

You got a video camera? Or your cell phone take video? I'd love to watch some videos of you felling!


----------



## Burvol

Metals406 said:


> I know! LOL
> 
> Somehow, I don't feel bad about it either. Hahahaha
> 
> You got a video camera? Or your cell phone take video? I'd love to watch some videos of you felling!



So you know what I'm getting myself for Christmas, eh??? 

A new camera that will do video as well. My old digital is about done. The LCD screen only works once in a while and it's the dawn of digital cameras, or close, a 2000 model.


----------



## coastalfaller

tarzanstree said:


> That kinda reminds me of when I was working for Columbia in Humboldt County CA, and they ended up not being able to fly a unit that we had already cut because a lady who lived close to the unit said that the whirring of the helicopter blades was making her have seizures! PALCO ended up having to rock a road to the unit and conventional log it because they were worried that she would sue them



It does get a bit much. We lost 5 blocks totalling around 70 000 m3 because an engineer who was laying it out "thought" he saw a goshawk! Even though they have never been able to find it again we're not allowed in the area! Another lady put up a hell of fight against one of our blocks, held it up for quite awhile, until she realized she'd be able to see the ocean from her back deck once we were done! All of a sudden we were able to start right away!


----------



## Burvol

coastalfaller said:


> It does get a bit much. We lost 5 blocks totalling around 70 000 m3 because an engineer who was laying it out "thought" he saw a goshawk! Even though they have never been able to find it again we're not allowed in the area! Another lady put up a hell of fight against one of our blocks, held it up for quite awhile, until she realized she'd be able to see the ocean from her back deck once we were done! All of a sudden we were able to start right away!



Western Sliver Grey Squirrels are the big problem here. Everyone swears they are the new spotted Owl for WA state. Go across the river to OR and there is a hunting season on the little suckers. I tend to jump out and chop tails of road killed ones in the morning with my axe and black tape them to CB attenas of various loggers on crummies and loaders when I "owe" someone some love, LOL.


----------



## Metals406

Burvol said:


> So you know what I'm getting myself for Christmas, eh???
> 
> A new camera that will do video as well. My old digital is about done. The LCD screen only works once in a while and it's the dawn of digital cameras, or close, a 2000 model.



 

opcorn:opcorn:


----------



## Metals406

Burvol said:


> Western Sliver Grey Squirrels are the big problem here. Everyone swears they are the new spotted Owl for WA state. Go across the river to OR and there is a hunting season on the little suckers. I tend to jump out and chop tails of road killed ones in the morning with my axe and black tape them to CB attenas of various loggers on crummies and loaders when I "owe" someone some love, LOL.



For us it's freaking Grizzly Bears. . . We always had to leave "corridors" on our units for them fuzzy buggers. They always just used the roads we made. . . Go figure.


----------



## Burvol

8 1/2 foot chunk of pulp in my strip a while ago, behind an old homestead.


----------



## Jacob J.

That's a big rotten pig, and those chaps are ugly! Good show!


----------



## Metals406

Burvol said:


> 8 1/2 foot chunk of pulp in my strip a while ago, behind an old homestead.



Now that's a tree! Even if it's a punky piece-o-crap. . . Bet it made a big boom when it hit.


----------



## Burvol

Jacob J. said:


> That's a big rotten pig, and those chaps are ugly! Good show!



Hey now Jacob! I know...they are ugly on me, but I have such pretty legs LOL. Those were brand new at the time and loose. I just wear them. One of the big outfits I contract for (my main gig now in the summer) requires contractors to wear all the stuff and no spliced tapes, I laughed when I read the no spliced tapes bit before I signed the contract with them.


----------



## hammerlogging

I'll try and get one with me in it. 
Fun thread.


----------



## floyd

Spliced tape could cut into their overrun you know.


----------



## fmaglin

tarzanstree said:


> That's pretty cool!



Thanks Cody.


----------



## slowp

The spliced tape....ahh a horror story from the ancient times.

Back in da old days, when clearcuts were common and three load logs were common, dere was some nice Noble Fir, and a special order for that fir. 

The purchaser (mill) got our blessing to take a cat down and to build a bed for said firs. It was a high lead unit. They did so, and the fallers used jacks. The trees landed where they were supposed to, and not much breakage.

Enter the bucking, and a spliced tape. Badly spliced. Well, I'll just say there was yelling, cussing, and hardhat throwing after the bucking and I think the faller was sent packing. 

As for working in cold weather. I have switched to polyester fleece. Layers of thin stuff. Micro fleece tops. Turtle neck zippy tops. Regular fleece tops over that if I'm not going to be moving all the time. Fleece is light weight, washes nicely, and keeps you warmer when it is wet. Just watch it when standing around a landing fire. Polyester longjohns under jeans when it is dry like now, or tin pants most of the time. 

I think everybody thinks I must be depressed or a goth. I find the black colors are usually on sale the most. The tops are a bit spendy when not on sale but really last and are worth it.


----------



## Burvol

Slowp, 

We know der is da issues with no light an lots o cold water fallin' from da sky in yer world. Black is totally an acceptable way of showing your love/hate relationship all of us PNW loggers have with nature, the hatred coming to a head this time of year. 

As for the spliced tapes, never owned one...kinda lazy and dumb if you ask me, plus I am super touchy about log quality. That's my claim to fame, make the prettiest logs around.  I tape mine out to 9 inches so I usually get longer life. I used to go 5-6. Jasha recommended 9, and here I am for a year and a half. I like it.


----------



## slowp

More coffee please, and more time sitting here next to the Happy Light.

Nope, gotta go, I think it will be temperatures in the teens in that pretty little drainage today.


----------



## forestryworks

Burvol said:


> 8 1/2 foot chunk of pulp in my strip a while ago, behind an old homestead.



am i seeing clearly this morning? in that pic there's no chain on your bar?

was it chain swapping time?


----------



## floyd

I used to inventory & cruise alot. Only bad thing about electrical tape on the 1st foot of my tape was trying to measure seedling height & depth of the duff layer.


I just hate walking off the end of my tape. That high pitched squeal as the spring unloads is like fingernails on a chalkboard.

Not only that, one has to get off the log to get another tape.

I suppose everyone bends & flattens a horseshoe nail instead of what comes with the tapes?


----------



## Curlycherry1

floyd said:


> Spliced tape could cut into their overrun you know.



Can someone edjamacate a flatlander here as to what the heck spliced tape is and what is it used for?


----------



## Greystoke

coastalfaller said:


> It does get a bit much. We lost 5 blocks totalling around 70 000 m3 because an engineer who was laying it out "thought" he saw a goshawk! Even though they have never been able to find it again we're not allowed in the area! Another lady put up a hell of fight against one of our blocks, held it up for quite awhile, until she realized she'd be able to see the ocean from her back deck once we were done! All of a sudden we were able to start right away!



Amazing how hypocritical some people can be!


----------



## Greystoke

Metals406 said:


> For us it's freaking Grizzly Bears. . . We always had to leave "corridors" on our units for them fuzzy buggers. They always just used the roads we made. . . Go figure.



Humboldt County in Northern CA was the worst I had ever experienced for enviro bs. You would walk into a unit to start cutting and it looked like They had turned a group of drunks loose with a box full of ribbon! Usnea longissima, maple leaf checkerbloom, anything that would hold water in a torrential downpour was protected, owls, marbled murrelets....on and on. And you had to try to save out the timber too, while dodging all the other b.s.!


----------



## Greystoke

Burvol said:


> 8 1/2 foot chunk of pulp in my strip a while ago, behind an old homestead.



Nice pic man!


----------



## floyd

The "0" end of the tape often breaks as it is being reeled back in. So there is a 12-18"plastic piece with a new end on it that one replaces the broken end with. Some are numerically challenged & make a 75' tape 75' 3" or something.

This adds up after a few loads of incorrectly bucked logs.


----------



## Greystoke

slowp said:


> The spliced tape....ahh a horror story from the ancient times.
> 
> Back in da old days, when clearcuts were common and three load logs were common, dere was some nice Noble Fir, and a special order for that fir.
> 
> The purchaser (mill) got our blessing to take a cat down and to build a bed for said firs. It was a high lead unit. They did so, and the fallers used jacks. The trees landed where they were supposed to, and not much breakage.
> 
> Enter the bucking, and a spliced tape. Badly spliced. Well, I'll just say there was yelling, cussing, and hardhat throwing after the bucking and I think the faller was sent packing.
> 
> As for working in cold weather. I have switched to polyester fleece. Layers of thin stuff. Micro fleece tops. Turtle neck zippy tops. Regular fleece tops over that if I'm not going to be moving all the time. Fleece is light weight, washes nicely, and keeps you warmer when it is wet. Just watch it when standing around a landing fire. Polyester longjohns under jeans when it is dry like now, or tin pants most of the time.
> 
> I think everybody thinks I must be depressed or a goth. I find the black colors are usually on sale the most. The tops are a bit spendy when not on sale but really last and are worth it.



I screwed up using one one time! I still use them, cuz I hate how easy my tape ends break, BUT I DOUBLE AND TRIPLE CHECK THEM FOR PRECISION. I just happened to splice mine a foot too long once:jawdrop: (was a long day and we had to hike down and up a deep canyon cuz the helicopter could not fly us out, so I was tired when I got home and was not paying attention when I spliced it) Luckily, I was cutting some smaller timber( and it was a foot too long and not too short)...about 500 logs worth before I caught it! My heart sank, and I thought for sure I was getting tramped, and it was so hard to go to the Bullbuck's camper and tell him. He was cool about it, and let me off the hook...did not even tell me to STOP using spliced ends...just said in a cool voice "don't do it again". The landing guys hated me, and the shame was enough to be sure that I never did it again... Like I said though, I still use them...call me hard headed, but I feel like I learned never to make that mistake again, and I was willing to deal with the consequences IF I did (which I am sure IF it would have happened again I would have been tramped). Plastic ends have made me a lot of money when I am busheling as you can bet that I had the fastest tape on the job. By the way, for anyone that is interested, the other piece of my fast tape was my custom made brazed tape nails from John Day Riggin Here is their #:541-575-1156. Call them and order some, you will not know how you got along without them...just don't let em stick ya in the ribs! Now, in conclusion...am I advocating spliced ends? Nope, that is up to the individual to decide, but if you do decide...please take my story here and let it sink in deep before you do.


----------



## coastalfaller

Burvol said:


> Western Sliver Grey Squirrels are the big problem here. Everyone swears they are the new spotted Owl for WA state. Go across the river to OR and there is a hunting season on the little suckers. I tend to jump out and chop tails of road killed ones in the morning with my axe and black tape them to CB attenas of various loggers on crummies and loaders when I "owe" someone some love, LOL.



I like it! LOL


----------



## coastalfaller

tarzanstree said:


> Amazing how hypocritical some people can be!



Isn't it?! All of a sudden after all the fighting, she was practically rolling out the red carpet for us!


----------



## Jacob J.

forestryworks said:


> am i seeing clearly this morning? in that pic there's no chain on your bar?
> 
> was it chain swapping time?



Maybe he dulled his chain on a racoon that was living in the middle.


----------



## Burvol

forestryworks said:


> am i seeing clearly this morning? in that pic there's no chain on your bar?
> 
> was it chain swapping time?



Actually, you know what? Mr. Full comp and nothing else ran a full skip that had half life on that tree. You can't see it casuse it's worn and has half the cutters, (no wonder it's jumpy and doesn't cut worth crap LOL) Didn't want to pack it around anymore. It's in the brush behind that stump to this day. My dad gave me that chain from when he was my age or younger, and said it was the last skip chain he would ever own. Me too. I run semi-skip on really long bars.


----------



## Burvol

*Hammers 12/04/09*






Starting the back cut of a big juicy Red Fir 






Sawing up the far corner, no it's not dutch. Just looks that way from the angle. 






Pretty much same shot, don't tell Steve or my Dad, but they are picture challanged LOL 






Super Steve cleaning the face of another nice stick.


----------



## Jacob J.

Man, that looks like fun. You guys are having a good time up there, and the ground looks decent.


----------



## forestryworks

nice pics. glad to see you're stayin busy.


----------



## Burvol

Jacob J. said:


> Man, that looks like fun. You guys are having a good time up there, and the ground looks decent.



It was a fun day. There is a #### hole below me in the picture and one below that Pine from yesterday's post. But it's all shovel logged in the drainages, and cat logged elsewhere. But yes, not bad ground at all. Sometimes it's hard to capture all of the ground on the shots focusing on just the trees. The other unit I'm going back to on Monday has a steep face that me and Pops are gonna side hill.


----------



## Burvol

forestryworks said:


> nice pics. glad to see you're stayin busy.



Gotta pay off that night school from the last 3 years, LOL


----------



## slowp

Burvol said:


> It was a fun day. There is a #### hole below me in the picture and one below that Pine from yesterday's post. But it's all shovel logged in the drainages, and cat logged elsewhere. But yes, not bad ground at all. Sometimes it's hard to capture all of the ground on the shots focusing on just the trees. The other unit I'm going back to on Monday has a steep face that me and Pops are gonna side hill.



It sounds so simple....today I came across a lowboy with a shovel on the trailer, unable to negotiate a switchback. In the middle of the road, for some unknown reason, nice clear water was burbleing up. Meanwhile, the recently repaired road to part of a unit had washed out already. I managed to plow a little snow with the vortec pickup, but didn't get stuck. I think it was a normal day? The lowboy showed up after a while. The driver backed down and gave it a little more speed. 

There's one corner where I've now heard 2 different lowboys and drivers say they had a tire hanging over...I'd never want to look back if I were driving.


----------



## 385xp9106

nice hinge


----------



## 385xp9106

hammerlogging said:


> not too hard
> 
> Here's a "its all flat ground east of the rockies" pic for 2dogs- thats our ground
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and a typical bore cut hickory stump with a 12" wedge for scale.



nice hinge


----------



## Burvol

slowp said:


> It sounds so simple....today I came across a lowboy with a shovel on the trailer, unable to negotiate a switchback. In the middle of the road, for some unknown reason, nice clear water was burbleing up. Meanwhile, the recently repaired road to part of a unit had washed out already. I managed to plow a little snow with the vortec pickup, but didn't get stuck. I think it was a normal day? The lowboy showed up after a while. The driver backed down and gave it a little more speed.
> 
> There's one corner where I've now heard 2 different lowboys and drivers say they had a tire hanging over...I'd never want to look back if I were driving.



Reminds me of when I heard a truck lose a load a few years back. It was a horrible, horrible sound. I could hear it over my saw. I ran so fast over there, I was sure I was gonna find a fatality or something bad. Turns out that there was no knifes in the tractor bunk and the super steep climb out made the load slide out. The driver only had one wrapper on, not too tight either. It broke the bunk pin and shoved the truck off the road into a bad hole. We spent the day helping him get out with a cat and some powersaws. No one hurt, thank God.


----------



## Greystoke

Jacob J. said:


> Man, that looks like fun. You guys are having a good time up there, and the ground looks decent.



No kiddin, I am jealous!


----------



## Burvol

tarzanstree said:


> No kiddin, I am jealous!



If you ever want to make a comeback, I can see what I can do around here for the future.


----------



## Jacob J.

Burvol said:


> If you ever want to make a comeback, I can see what I can do around here for the future.



I know I'm gonna be heading out looking for saw work after x-mas. I'll probably head down south to Gold Beach or Montague.


----------



## Meadow Beaver

Jacob J. said:


> I know I'm gonna be heading out looking for saw work after x-mas. I'll probably head down south to Gold Beach or Montague.



How do you get to pick where you go?


----------



## Burvol

Jacob J. said:


> I know I'm gonna be heading out looking for saw work after x-mas. I'll probably head down south to Gold Beach or Montague.



I cut logs out of Gold Beach last October for a few weeks. It's really weird looking out and seeing a flock of turkeys feeding on a ledge overlooking the pacific ocean.


----------



## Meadow Beaver

Burvol said:


> I cut logs out of Gold Beach last October for a few weeks. It's really weird looking out and seeing a flock of turkeys feeding on a ledge overlooking the pacific ocean.



Is there trees right to the edge or close to it?


----------



## Burvol

MMFaller39 said:


> Is there trees right to the edge or close to it?



Probably 300 miles worth.


----------



## Meadow Beaver

Here's a random thought anyone ever been to Willits?


----------



## Greystoke

MMFaller39 said:


> Here's a random thought anyone ever been to Willits?




Willits CA? If that is where you are talking about, I spent 5 days in the hospital there when I busted my leg Falling Timber on a CDF State Job Between there and Fort Bragg...I will never Forget that place. Being in the hospital with a busted leg and covered with poisen oak


----------



## slowp

MMFaller39 said:


> Here's a random thought anyone ever been to Willits?



I think I've been through there. I worked up the Klamath River for a few years and went on a road trip once that way. It was raining hard and nothing could be seen. 

The Klamath area is poison oak and tan oak city. Tan oak puts out a pollen all during the dry season that you breathe in and gets all over and inside your clothes and itches. Makes your throat raw. I do not miss that at all. 

The poison oak was over my head, but somebody will probably point out that I am short. 

I'm one of the lucky ones who got sent into it because I'm not very sensitive to poison oak.


----------



## Gologit

MMFaller39 said:


> Here's a random thought anyone ever been to Willits?



Yup. Kind of a "stuck in the 60's" place. Lots of old hippies. You can get a great linguica breakfast at Gribaldi's. You can also catch the Skunk Train there and ride over to Ft. Bragg.


----------



## Burvol

Good morning Bob!


----------



## Gologit

Hi Jesse !! Those are good pictures you posted.


----------



## Burvol

Thanks Bob, it has been a fun job. I scaled the last two just for fun yesterday and both were around 3,500. Not huge, but darn nice wood for a Friday, especially in this day and age. I always tease Steve and My Dad that I cut _all hammers_ since they "squeezed the juice" so hard around here 20-30 years ago, LOL. Steve and I raced for the one I cut


----------



## Gologit

That's the way to do it...might as well have some fun with the job when you can. Makes the day go by quicker.

I think I'm done 'til after the first of the year...maybe longer. We finally put the hat on the burn salvage and there's a couple of cold wet storms headed in. I'm ready to put my feet by the fire for awhile.


----------



## Burvol

It does make the day go by quicker. I hope you enjoy your time off Bob. I always tell people that the winter is the time when a guy can sleep past 6-7 and not feel quilty, weekends and all. Our sturgeon season opens Jan 1, so I always spend a month or two by my 12 foot rod on the Columbia with a fire and my guitar with a bunch of buddies that are laid off too. We comiserate and enjoy it. The trick is not to be a broke ass, then it's all good!


----------



## floyd

Put rubbing alcohol on the skin exposed to poison oak. It dissolves the oils.

I suppose one could just drink a pint of whiskey then you wouldn't care until the next morning.


----------



## Burvol

floyd said:


> Put rubbing alcohol on the skin exposed to poison oak. It dissolves the oils.
> 
> I suppose one could just drink a pint of whiskey then you wouldn't care until the next morning.



Hey...that's what I used to do... X2!!! :greenchainsaw:


----------



## Greystoke

Burvol said:


> If you ever want to make a comeback, I can see what I can do around here for the future.



Thanks Man, I appreciate it! Might have to take ya up on that sometime  I kinda like what I am doing now (especially the tree climbing part; I love that!), other than the slow times like right now. It would be nice if there were some falling jobs left around here so a guy could be home every night, but those days are long gone, and I can't leave my wife at home with our 4 kids to go tramping around. It is tempting sometimes to go back to Falling timber full time though. My Brother-in-Law is on Afohgnak Island in Alaska, working on a big job that is supposed to last around 10 years. One of the rare camps where a guy can have his family with him. It has been very tempting to pull up stakes and go there. Worst thing about that job is the day-wage, but the hunting and fishing would make up for that!


----------



## Burvol

tarzanstree said:


> Thanks Man, I appreciate it! Might have to take ya up on that sometime  I kinda like what I am doing now (especially the tree climbing part; I love that!), other than the slow times like right now. It would be nice if there were some falling jobs left around here so a guy could be home every night, but those days are long gone, and I can't leave my wife at home with our 4 kids to go tramping around. It is tempting sometimes to go back to Falling timber full time though. My Brother-in-Law is on Afohgnak Island in Alaska, working on a big job that is supposed to last around 10 years. One of the rare camps where a guy can have his family with him. It has been very tempting to pull up stakes and go there. Worst thing about that job is the day-wage, but the hunting and fishing would make up for that!



Day wage and hourly is all I can find here, it's all there is. You might get lucky and do one by the ton now and then, but guys make too much money busheling, as the loggers now say. I feel fortunate to be home every night. I probably make less money than other places, but I love the job, love my sweetheart, and like to be home. Plus, I can't do any better around here. Our economy sucks. The other option is to go make 12-16 an hour for a contract builder or whatever, and be someone's boy all day. Screw that. I'll take what I can get in the woods and try to protect my money. I absolutly love the job, period. I do make decent money at times, but right now I took a reduced wage to work this winter, we all did. No complaints here.

What does your wife think about going north?


----------



## Greystoke

floyd said:


> Put rubbing alcohol on the skin exposed to poison oak. It dissolves the oils.
> 
> I suppose one could just drink a pint of whiskey then you wouldn't care until the next morning.



I tried every home remedy recommended to me, from homemade manzanita leaf tea, to bleach, salt and baking powder mixtures, and nothing really seemed to help. Only thing that seemed to help was a good scrubbing with luke warm water (not hot water) and Fels Naptha as soon as I got home; clean clothes every day; My Hickory buttoned tight around my neck to keep chips from going down my shirt, and wearing a George Jetson hat (the goofy looking ones with the screen and the muffs). The screen on the hat kept the chips from hitting my face, and best of all, the muffs kept me from getting poison oak inside my ears from my ear plugs...that used to drive me banana's. Still though, all of that would only minimize my reaction, as all I have to do is look at the stuff and I start itching. When it would get so bad that I could not sleep at night I would go to the doc and get some Prednisone, and that stuff had some wonderful side effects too! It seemed to me that the guys that grew up around it, did not get it as bad? I Definitely do not miss working around poison oak!


----------



## slowp

I did not grow up around it. I'm allergic to a lot of stuff. But I've pitched a tent (unknowingly) on poison oak, poked myself in the eye, grabbed it, dropped equipment in it, and never had any problems. I used that Techno stuff just in case, when I found out it was available. 

Because of that, when we were doing reforestation plots in plantations, I'd go do the plots in the poison oak. 

Now tanoak, that really bothers me. It is itchy stuff. But washes off. Maybe the whiskey treatment would soothe the itchy throat?

Well, I'll see if the Barbie Saw starts. I have willow tree slash to burn. Brrrrrr. It is a frosty wonderland outdoors.


----------



## Burvol

slowp said:


> I did not grow up around it. I'm allergic to a lot of stuff. But I've pitched a tent (unknowingly) on poison oak, poked myself in the eye, grabbed it, dropped equipment in it, and never had any problems. I used that Techno stuff just in case, when I found out it was available.
> 
> Because of that, when we were doing reforestation plots in plantations, I'd go do the plots in the poison oak.
> 
> Now tanoak, that really bothers me. It is itchy stuff. But washes off. Maybe the whiskey treatment would soothe the itchy throat?
> 
> Well, I'll see if the Barbie Saw starts. I have willow tree slash to burn. Brrrrrr. It is a frosty wonderland outdoors.



So are you gonna go get wiskey drunk and burn? That's a PNW winter past time, LOL


----------



## ROOTSXROCKS

I am sensitive to poison Ivy , Had to get shots for a few cases as a kid, cause I couldn't be kept out of the woods. 
I learned a long time ago to take bleach and dab it on the blisters as soon as they appear. 
It causes a slight chemical burn, but it will not itch anymore than a normal scratch that scabs up.


----------



## Greystoke

Burvol said:


> Day wage and hourly is all I can find here, it's all there is. You might get lucky and do one by the ton now and then, but guys make too much money busheling, as the loggers now say. I feel fortunate to be home every night. I probably make less money than other places, but I love the job, love my sweetheart, and like to be home. Plus, I can't do any better around here. Our economy sucks. The other option is to go make 12-16 an hour for a contract builder or whatever, and be someone's boy all day. Screw that. I'll take what I can get in the woods and try to protect my money. I absolutly love the job, period. I do make decent money at times, but right now I took a reduced wage to work this winter, we all did. No complaints here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What does your wife think about going north?
Click to expand...


She has said that she is up for it, but she has never lived a logging lifestyle, as we got married in '08 after I moved back here from Alaska in '06 and gave up Falling Timber. I gave it up because I went through a divorce up there and wanted joint custody of my two kids, and could not really be a single Dad and a Tramp Timber Faller bouncing around Southeast Alaska Logging camps, as most of them don't have accommodations for families. Glad I did it now...I had them for a year in '07, and we have them with us this year (they spend every other year with us). The other dynamic is My 17 year old Daughter is a Senior in high school, and would NEVER go live in a logging camp. My other Daughter just turned 12 and I have two younger boys (wife and I each had two kids when we got married), and the three younger kids are all into sports, so I am definitely seeing where we need to provide as much stability as possible for them. So I guess what I have learned is it is really hard to be a good Timber Faller, and a good Family Man at the same time. Any guy who is in a situation to do both well should count himself as fortunate. Besides, with my tree business I still get to dump some trees every now and again, and usually there is a LOT more adrenaline involved, and some good money too. I have gotten to be a hero and rescue a poor kitten up a tree, and next week I will be working for a local wildlife refuge, where I will top a dead pine tree and install an osprey nest. Here are some Pics of a few of my Jobs:

Cat rescue (cat is in the bag!):







I still get to bust out my 088 once in a while! Also get to break out my Tree Jacks on occasion. There was some serious adrenaline involved in this tree as about 10 feet behind it sat an old restored school house.






This tree was hanging over the house, so I had to rig tops, and chunks and swing them away, and lower them:






A dead Pine that was right next to a house:






I just did this job a few weeks ago. one of the tops was hanging over the house, so I had to rig limbs and tops.





















As you can see I do have fun.


----------



## Jacob J.

Great pictures again TT. Tree service is about the best way a guy can cut timber and have fun with it and stay working without moving everywhere.


----------



## Meadow Beaver

tarzanstree said:


> She has said that she is up for it, but she has never lived a logging lifestyle, as we got married in '08 after I moved back here from Alaska in '06 and gave up Falling Timber. I gave it up because I went through a divorce up there and wanted joint custody of my two kids, and could not really be a single Dad and a Tramp Timber Faller bouncing around Southeast Alaska Logging camps, as most of them don't have accommodations for families. Glad I did it now...I had them for a year in '07, and we have them with us this year (they spend every other year with us). The other dynamic is My 17 year old Daughter is a Senior in high school, and would NEVER go live in a logging camp. My other Daughter just turned 12 and I have two younger boys (wife and I each had two kids when we got married), and the three younger kids are all into sports, so I am definitely seeing where we need to provide as much stability as possible for them. So I guess what I have learned is it is really hard to be a good Timber Faller, and a good Family Man at the same time. Any guy who is in a situation to do both well should count himself as fortunate. Besides, with my tree business I still get to dump some trees every now and again, and usually there is a LOT more adrenaline involved, and some good money too. I have gotten to be a hero and rescue a poor kitten up a tree, and next week I will be working for a local wildlife refuge, where I will top a dead pine tree and install an osprey nest. Here are some Pics of a few of my Jobs:
> 
> Cat rescue (cat is in the bag!):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I still get to bust out my 088 once in a while! Also get to break out my Tree Jacks on occasion. There was some serious adrenaline involved in this tree as about 10 feet behind it sat an old restored school house.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This tree was hanging over the house, so I had to rig tops, and chunks and swing them away, and lower them:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A dead Pine that was right next to a house:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just did this job a few weeks ago. one of the tops was hanging over the house, so I had to rig limbs and tops.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see I do have fun.



Cool pics Cody, got a pic of you w/ the 088 up in a tree? :greenchainsaw: Just kinding


----------



## Greystoke

MMFaller39 said:


> Cool pics Cody, got a pic of you w/ the 088 up in a tree? :greenchainsaw: Just kinding



Wish I was strong enough to one-hand that baby!


----------



## slowp

Burvol said:


> So are you gonna go get wiskey drunk and burn? That's a PNW winter past time, LOL



We do it beer drinkin' and hot dogs. Sometimes Yukon is passed around. But I'm doing my own and friends are up skiing...which is not very good right now. So I got it going, my face feels hot, and I am doing lunch. A beer sounds tempting though. The lawn chair is in position for PNW style though.
I believe it already had a few melt spots on it. I'll do a full report with pictures later. 

I like those tree pictures! More please. Things are boring around here.


----------



## Metals406

Cool pictures Cody!! Glad you're staying busy down south.


----------



## fmaglin

tarzanstree said:


> I tried every home remedy recommended to me, from homemade manzanita leaf tea, to bleach, salt and baking powder mixtures, and nothing really seemed to help. Only thing that seemed to help was a good scrubbing with luke warm water (not hot water) and Fels Naptha as soon as I got home; clean clothes every day; My Hickory buttoned tight around my neck to keep chips from going down my shirt, and wearing a George Jetson hat (the goofy looking ones with the screen and the muffs). The screen on the hat kept the chips from hitting my face, and best of all, the muffs kept me from getting poison oak inside my ears from my ear plugs...that used to drive me banana's. Still though, all of that would only minimize my reaction, as all I have to do is look at the stuff and I start itching. When it would get so bad that I could not sleep at night I would go to the doc and get some Prednisone, and that stuff had some wonderful side effects too! It seemed to me that the guys that grew up around it, did not get it as bad? I Definitely do not miss working around poison oak!



I'm pretty allergic to poison ivy more so than poison oak. What I've found to work the best is the products from Tecnu. Their scrub seems to work the best. If I know I've been cutting in Poison oak or ivy, I'll wash with their scrub and it will often times prevent me from getting rashed. They claim you can even wash as late as 8 hours after coming in contact.


----------



## Burvol

I like those pictures Cody. I will speak no more of it, I understand completly. I also commend you for being a family man. Montana is a very pretty state as well.


----------



## 056 kid

my dad grew up in CA being very allergic to it. it sent him to the hospital on 2 occasions. He still gets it just from lookin at it it seems.

I used to get the east coast stuff real bad, but in the last year, or at least last summer, I never had a breakout which I thought was strange cause I had been all around it.
Poison ivy still messes me up pretty good though.

Nothing like a hot shower with the water getting hotter & hotter pointed on the rash,mmmmmm. It seems to get rid of it by drying it out if you rub it while applying the hot ass water, or at least it deadens the itchy agony...


----------



## Greystoke

Burvol said:


> I like those pictures Cody. I will speak no more of it, I understand completly. I also commend you for being a family man. Montana is a very pretty state as well.




Hey, who knows man...I might get a wild hair and call you up looking for a job there sometime! When I see you posting those pics of falling nice timber it makes me feel a little nostalgic, and I want to fall timber again. I probably just have too much time on my hands right now, and am wishing I was out there killin trees with ya. Anyhow I was flattered that you thought that I should be Falling Timber somewhere  By the way, you guys must be cutting some nice stuff, cuz when I talked to Steve, he was wanting to know if I would ever be willing sell my tree jacks. They are setting in my saw shop all lonely, just itchin to have some glory! Hopefully I can give them some glory sometime


----------



## Greystoke

fmaglin said:


> I'm pretty allergic to poison ivy more so than poison oak. What I've found to work the best is the products from Tecnu. Their scrub seems to work the best. If I know I've been cutting in Poison oak or ivy, I'll wash with their scrub and it will often times prevent me from getting rashed. They claim you can even wash as late as 8 hours after coming in contact.



You know I tried that stuff and it didn't seem to work any better for me than fels naptha, but whatever works  I remember the Ivy block made me feel like I was trying to bushel while wearing a rubber suit! I hated that stuff.


----------



## hammerlogging

Everyone has their own story, none better, none worse, just different. May everyones present, and future, kick complete ass.

My best friend (from whom the "brother" thing comes awfully familiar) told me once he looks forward to the day when we'd be sitting in our rockers on the porch over a pipe telling our stories. I said hey bud, we gotta keep makin those stories. We did a pretty good job of it, and I dont think either of us have quit makin them yet.

As much as we can, living for the moment.


----------



## matt9923

hammerlogging said:


> Everyone has their own story, none better, none worse, just different. May everyones present, and future, kick complete ass.
> 
> My best friend (from whom the "brother" thing comes awfully familiar) told me once he looks forward to the day when we'd be sitting in our rockers on the porch over a pipe telling our stories. I said hey bud, we gotta keep makin those stories. We did a pretty good job of it, and I dont think either of us have quit makin them yet.
> 
> As much as we can, living for the moment.



Good post, and NOVA i think?


----------



## Burvol

tarzanstree said:


> Hey, who knows man...I might get a wild hair and call you up looking for a job there sometime! When I see you posting those pics of falling nice timber it makes me feel a little nostalgic, and I want to fall timber again. I probably just have too much time on my hands right now, and am wishing I was out there killin trees with ya. Anyhow I was flattered that you thought that I should be Falling Timber somewhere  By the way, you guys must be cutting some nice stuff, cuz when I talked to Steve, he was wanting to know if I would ever be willing sell my tree jacks. They are setting in my saw shop all lonely, just itchin to have some glory! Hopefully I can give them some glory sometime



Yes, it is all juice wood on the one side. Really tall, beautiful Doug Fir. My Dad and I share a set of jacks that are down. I sent them with the logger's mechanic to get looked at. There are a lot of RMZ's and no entry points, so jacks would be great. It's too big of wood to beat all day contrary in those spots.


----------



## Cedarkerf

Great thread with a lot of great pics Jesse
Weird on the poison oak deal my brother wont cross the Orygon boarder he gets it so bad hes had his eyes swollen shut without even goin in the woods staying indoors at all times when he was younger. I on the other hand have literally rolled in the stuff and never got more than a couple little bumps go figure. Looking glass area for those that really know Oregon
On a side note saw a brand spankin new 056MagII sold at my saw shop today $999 with 32" bar and chain sure was purdy.


----------



## floyd

there is a Chief Lookingglass fish hatchery on the Grande Ronde River in NE OR. 

I bet you talking the west side one.


----------



## Burvol

White Salmon, WA sure has a lot of poison oak, it's right at the base of the cascades.


----------



## slowp

Burvol said:


> White Salmon, WA sure has a lot of poison oak, it's right at the base of the cascades.



The hefty poison oak stops there. Our area only has thorny plants and whippy plants, and nettles. Lots of nettles in the swampy areas. It was hinted that due to me answering No, to the question or poison oak reactions, I might have to go south to work a day or two a week. I think they have somebody who also is not reactive down there now. It is a long drive. 

Hey, the ground is white here and the wind is howling. The ski area will be closed today unless things calm down. Their report says, "Blizzard conditions."


----------



## hammerlogging

fallers truck





regen opening, 250' deep from bench, about 1500' long, SMZ below thinned, already logged when I took this one. Nice 20-24" dbh poplar the whole way. even-aged block. We had a processor limb and top this block!! We only had to buck the trees at about 40'.





modified shelterwood, cutters select, after logging--- another regeneration technique, 2 age classes. Oakier ridgetop.


----------



## slowp

Hammerlogging: That looks nice. No scarring and good trees left. The very stuff people want to see around here.


----------



## Metals406

slowp said:


> The hefty poison oak stops there. Our area only has thorny plants and whippy plants, and nettles. Lots of nettles in the swampy areas. It was hinted that due to me answering No, to the question or poison oak reactions, I might have to go south to work a day or two a week. I think they have somebody who also is not reactive down there now. It is a long drive.
> 
> Hey, the ground is white here and the wind is howling. The ski area will be closed today unless things calm down. Their report says, "Blizzard conditions."




That's headed this way. . . Plus tomorrow it's supposed to be -15 ~ -20 below zero.





It's 9 degrees right now. . . Brrrrrrrrrr.


----------



## Cedarkerf

slowp said:


> Hey, the ground is white here and the wind is howling. The ski area will be closed today unless things calm down. Their report says, "Blizzard conditions."


White here too


----------



## Meadow Beaver

Metals406 said:


> That's headed this way. . . Plus tomorrow it's supposed to be -15 ~ -20 below zero.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's 9 degrees right now. . . Brrrrrrrrrr.




Wow, we're havin a nice winter here, it only got down to about 25 last night.


----------



## Metals406

MMFaller39 said:


> Wow, we're havin a nice winter here, it only got down to about 25 last night.



I'll trade ya. . .


----------



## Meadow Beaver

Metals406 said:


> I'll trade ya. . .



Nah, not yet . I'll trade ya in the Summer when it's 90 degrees and 80% humidity.


----------



## ROOTSXROCKS

I had to light a fire last night for me and the boys to hang out in the driveway, It got down to a shivering 40 degrees last night:dunno:


----------



## Metals406

MMFaller39 said:


> Nah, not yet . I'll trade ya in the Summer when it's 90 degrees and 80% humidity.



LOL. . . Then I'll pass on your summer temps and humidity. It'll get above 100 here in the summer, but the humidity is usually pretty low. . . More of a dry heat -- which is quite hot enough for me anyway.


----------



## Metals406

ROOTSXROCKS said:


> I had to light a fire last night for me and the boys to hang out in the driveway, It got down to a shivering 40 degrees last night:dunno:



40 huh? Jeez, that is cold. 

LOL


----------



## ROOTSXROCKS

Metals406 said:


> 40 huh? Jeez, that is cold.
> 
> LOL



yep that's what happens when you move to Florida, It is the weather from October to March that make the summer Humidity bearable.
Winters are perfect with a small outdoor heat source and a little fire water. 
check out my new stove thread, I was tired of the Chimeras cracking and an open fire pit is out of the question here in city limits.
http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=117508


----------



## forestryworks

*thought i'd throw in a pic*

out of 100 trees i dropped we hauled out 42 logs.

cutting in the burned area that was hit hard in the april 9th fires.

"logging" what we can for firewood; a two for one deal for the landowner...
gets alot of wood out of the burned areas, leave stumps 3ft. high, as he'll doze what's left at a later date. should be an easier slash burn i'd think. we'll see.

only got one pic so far.


----------



## Metals406

forestryworks said:


> out of 100 trees i dropped we hauled out 42 logs.
> 
> cutting in the burned area that was hit hard in the april 9th fires.
> 
> "logging" what we can for firewood; a two for one deal for the landowner...
> gets alot of wood out of the burned areas, leave stumps 3ft. high, as he'll doze what's left at a later date. should be an easier slash burn i'd think. we'll see.
> 
> only got one pic so far.



That's a good looking stump! 

Cutting all that burned wood sure is hard on your equipment though. . . That ash and charcoal is abrasive as all get-out.


----------



## Metals406

ROOTSXROCKS said:


> yep that's what happens when you move to Florida, It is the weather from October to March that make the summer Humidity bearable.
> Winters are perfect with a small outdoor heat source and a little fire water.
> check out my new stove thread, I was tired of the Chimeras cracking and an open fire pit is out of the question here in city limits.
> http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=117508



I got a buddy in Orlando. . . I think he'd wear full blown arctic gear in 25 degree weather. LOL

The humidity sure does make it seem colder though. . . A wet cold vs. a dry cold -- kinda like the heat thing.


----------



## forestryworks

hammerlogging said:


> fallers truck
> 
> regen opening, 250' deep from bench, about 1500' long, SMZ below thinned, already logged when I took this one. Nice 20-24" dbh poplar the whole way. even-aged block. We had a processor limb and top this block!! We only had to buck the trees at about 40'.
> 
> modified shelterwood, cutters select, after logging--- another regeneration technique, 2 age classes. Oakier ridgetop.



nice pics. pretty country.


----------



## forestryworks

hey tarzan, nice pics. montana is pretty.

do you get into any beetle killed pine stuff?


----------



## Metals406

forestryworks said:


> hey tarzan, nice pics. montana is pretty.
> 
> do you get into any beetle killed pine stuff?



I'm not Cody, but I can answer that. . . Were getting more and more beetle kill here.

Especially around Helena -- a member here's been cutting in it.






http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/18/science/18trees.html


----------



## slowp

The power came back on. It went off this morning. This is quite the blow. 
My old neighborhood is covered in branches and limbs. Where I used to park my car, there is a Doug-fir top laying on the ground. I used to worry about those trees in the wind. They were topped about 15 years ago and the tops grew back, and we know what that means.

Twinkle might have to go to work tomorrow, I might throw the Barbie Saw in too. I hope our woodcutters have been keeping the roads open...

Sorry about the thread drift. That faller's pickup looks much too tidy.


----------



## hammerlogging

Since I trust this thread will go right back on topic, I just want to ask if they're is a little smiley guy that goes wink wink, or some other way to denote absolute sarcasm so that when this wonderful tool is used it is not misinterpreted.

And while I'm off topic, I know that Billy is the Bard. Stratford on Avon. Wife's a renaissance lit fanatic.


----------



## Meadow Beaver

hammerlogging said:


> Since I trust this thread will go right back on topic, I just want to ask if they're is a little smiley guy that goes wink wink, or some other way to denote absolute sarcasm so that when this wonderful tool is used it is not misinterpreted.
> 
> And while I'm off topic, I know that Billy is the Bard. Stratford on Avon. Wife's a renaissance lit fanatic.



What's the elevation you cut at normally?


----------



## hammerlogging

the river is at about 700', the creeks up in the hollers are about 900', and the ridgetops are somewhere between 2400' and 2800'. Give er take here and there of course. We're cutting from the creeks to the ridgetops, depending on the unit.


----------



## Meadow Beaver

hammerlogging said:


> the river is at about 700', the creeks up in the hollers are about 900', and the ridgetops are somewhere between 2400' and 2800'. Give er take here and there of course. We're cutting from the creeks to the ridgetops, depending on the unit.



You're dang lucky your cuttin right now, I haven't worked in a month. You guys get to clearcut too.


----------



## 056 kid

MMFaller39 said:


> You're dang lucky your cuttin right now, I haven't worked in a month. You guys get to clearcut too.





Where are you at again? ny? 

I could likely work over x mas break but im not gonna. It seems easy to be a logger in wv & va still as long as you know some people.. If you like clear cuts, you would enjoy Gypsy moth tracts..


----------



## Greystoke

forestryworks said:


> hey tarzan, nice pics. montana is pretty.
> 
> do you get into any beetle killed pine stuff?



Have not worked in any of the recent stuff in Montana (other than residential stuff). Worst I ever worked in was in a little area in Central Idaho. Little place called Featherville. I was working for Columbia, and we were chasing beetle killed fir everywhere! Worst I have ever seen. Nice looking stump, and holding/hinge wood in that pic!


----------



## Meadow Beaver

056 kid said:


> Where are you at again? ny?
> 
> I could likely work over x mas break but im not gonna. It seems easy to be a logger in wv & va still as long as you know some people.. If you like clear cuts, you would enjoy Gypsy moth tracts..



I live in NE PA, but usually work in NY.


----------



## bitzer

I correct my earlier statement. I grew up in the wrong PARTS of the country! To tied down with family and kids now to be pullin up. This thread sure makes me wanna get into some big timber tho!



Beautiful pics everyone! I wish I could get into some timber falling for real around here. Theres some selective hardwoods felling for veneers and such around here but with the economy and the type of land management wanted(minor impact and very selective cuttings) along with distance between viable jobs, I am sure it would be hard pressed to make a livin on it right now. 


BTW we've got some white on the ground today with another foot comin tomorrow. My chains don't like cuttin snow skidded logs, but the fresh blanket sure makes the woods look purdy!


----------



## Meadow Beaver

bitzercreek1 said:


> I correct my earlier statement. I grew up in the wrong PARTS of the country! To tied down with family and kids now to be pullin up. This thread sure makes me wanna get into some big timber tho!
> 
> 
> 
> Beautiful pics everyone! I wish I could get into some timber falling for real around here. Theres some selective hardwoods felling for veneers and such around here but with the economy and the type of land management wanted(minor impact and very selective cuttings) along with distance between viable jobs, I am sure it would be hard pressed to make a livin on it right now.
> 
> 
> BTW we've got some white on the ground today with another foot comin tomorrow. My chains don't like cuttin snow skidded logs, but the fresh blanket sure makes the woods look purdy!



That's good you're such a family man. Me though, I would move out West in a heartbeat if or when I get the chance.


----------



## Burvol

Here's a falling picture for ya. My Dad, Oregon Coast May of 1980. 27-28 years old.


----------



## forestryworks

Burvol said:


> Here's a falling picture for ya. My Dad, Oregon Coast May of 1980. 27-28 years old.



there's a classic


----------



## matt9923

That is a priceless picture ya got there!


----------



## Gologit

That's a keeper.


----------



## coastalfaller

Agreed! That's a great pic. Should blow it up, frame it and hang it on the wall.


----------



## coastalfaller

Here's a pic of my biggest and one of my guys on springboards bringing down a "fun one"! In case your wondering what the smaller cedar is doing in the picture, it was blown in to it and had to come at the same time. Kind of ruined the picture!


----------



## Burvol

coastalfaller said:


> Agreed! That's a great pic. Should blow it up, frame it and hang it on the wall.



It is rightfully so, in my office on the wall. I'm with a 7 footer in another picture next to him, junior settles for second place...LOL 

That is a picture of a picture. The one I have is really clear and sweet. I have another one of my Dad and uncle cutting 300 ft tall Fir up on the WA Pinansula. 4-7 on the butt.


----------



## coastalfaller

Burvol said:


> It is rightfully so, in my office on the wall. I'm with a 7 footer in another picture next to him, junior settles for second place...LOL
> 
> That is a picture of a picture. The one I have is really clear and sweet. I have another one of my Dad and uncle cutting 300 ft tall Fir up on the WA Pinansula. 4-7 on the butt.



300 ft tall Fir. I can only dream of that now! We still get Fir patches around 200 ft, but not 300. Get the odd nice spruce patch still too. There's one area that we may be going into, I doubt it will happen, but the ribbons are hanging anyway! The engineers say the timber is like logging in the 60's! Makes me almost start drooling!


----------



## forestryworks

coastalfaller said:


> Here's a pic of my biggest and one of my guys on springboards bringing down a "fun one"! In case your wondering what the smaller cedar is doing in the picture, it was blown in to it and had to come at the same time. Kind of ruined the picture!



are you/were you with sibola mountain falling?


----------



## coastalfaller

forestryworks said:


> are you/were you with sibola mountain falling?



You could say that! It's my company. How in the world have you heard of it down there!?


----------



## forestryworks

coastalfaller said:


> You could say that! It's my company. How in the world have you heard of it down there!?



i was browsing timber falling pics online one day and came across it.

you got a good company.


----------



## coastalfaller

forestryworks said:


> i was browsing timber falling pics online one day and came across it.
> 
> you got a good company.



Thank you, I appreciate that. Pretty tough road these days, but I think I can see light at the end of the tunnel now, pretty certain it's NOT a train!!

How are things down there?


----------



## forestryworks

things are okay for being laid off and on the firewood route.

cutting mostly burned "timber". most of it is still a little wet. be great for next year's wood if it don't dry rot too bad.


----------



## coastalfaller

forestryworks said:


> things are okay for being laid off and on the firewood route.
> 
> cutting mostly burned "timber". most of it is still a little wet. be great for next year's wood if it don't dry rot too bad.



I hear you. Let's hope we all have a good year.


----------



## Greystoke

Burvol said:


> Here's a falling picture for ya. My Dad, Oregon Coast May of 1980. 27-28 years old.



Oh man, the good old days! Nice pic! Thanks for sharing. Why couldn't I have been born into that era


----------



## Gologit

tarzanstree said:


> Why couldn't I have been born into that era



Those of us who _did_ work in that era were lucky. We got to cut the kind of timber that just isn't available anymore. We didn't think much of it, it was just everyday stuff and we didn't see ourselves as doing anything special.

I wouldn't mind getting back into a stand of OG redwood but I'd want to take today's equipment with me. There's just no comparison. The advances in new saws, jacks, skidding equipment, loaders,and such would sure make that job a lot easier. 

All I miss about the "good old days" are the good parts.

Speaking of which, I'm working, sitting here in the pickup on a coffee break with the heater going and this laptop on the seat and an oldies staion on the radio...warm and dry surrounded by modern conveniences. But...it's raining, it's cold, it's windy, my rain gear got a big rip in it this morning, I must have missed a spot on my right caulk when I greased it, there's more wood to cut, and I already ate most of my lunch. Some things never change.


----------



## Meadow Beaver

Hey CoastalFaller, is that you or one of your employees on Madsen's page?


----------



## Cedarkerf

Gologit said:


> Those of us who _did_ work in that era were lucky. We got to cut the kind of timber that just isn't available anymore. We didn't think much of it, it was just everyday stuff and we didn't see ourselves as doing anything special.
> 
> I wouldn't mind getting back into a stand of OG redwood but I'd want to take today's equipment with me. There's just no comparison. The advances in new saws, jacks, skidding equipment, loaders,and such would sure make that job a lot easier.
> 
> All I miss about the "good old days" are the good parts.
> 
> Speaking of which, I'm working, sitting here in the pickup on a coffee break with the heater going and this laptop on the seat and an oldies staion on the radio...warm and dry surrounded by modern conveniences. But...it's raining, it's cold, it's windy, my rain gear got a big rip in it this morning, I must have missed a spot on my right caulk when I greased it, there's more wood to cut, and I already ate most of my lunch. Somethings never change.



I have the retired at home thing covered for ya.:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## slowp

What was it from the other morning? Get up and get to work?:hmm3grin2orange:
I'm thinking about that while sipping my steaming hot snooty coffee.


----------



## chappy2100

View attachment 117831


View attachment 117832


View attachment 117833


View attachment 117834

residential cut, took two spruce and a oak, and did some fun climbin


----------



## Burvol

coastalfaller said:


> 300 ft tall Fir. I can only dream of that now! We still get Fir patches around 200 ft, but not 300. Get the odd nice spruce patch still too. There's one area that we may be going into, I doubt it will happen, but the ribbons are hanging anyway! The engineers say the timber is like logging in the 60's! Makes me almost start drooling!



I know, hard to believe. That's what I said. He said that stuff was so tall that it broke in mid air on the way down. I can't remember exactly where it's at, maybe the Queets or the Hoh river. One of those big drainages up on the Northwest corner of WA in the rainforest. It takes huge amounts of water, drainage, and sunlight to grow massive Dougies. Him and my mom went up there to find that unit this summer and got turned around, but they said there is still some hammer timber standing up there to this day, just like the stuff they cut. 

I didn't get any pics today, but cut some nice Fir for this day and age, 30-40 on the stump and 4 36's. God, you should see the pine that's right on the unit line. It's got a healed chop scar from an old survey so I almost stole the darn thing LOL. Approx. 46" and TALL, don't even know how damn tall it is. Huge friggin' gunbarrel pine, nicest stick I have seen around here for pine in a long time that wasn't on the Yakama reservation. We are on the slopes of the Cascades in this unit, so kinda rare to see pine at all. But it's all prety darn nice for what is there, competing with that stand of big Fir. Pine is fun for a few days, then I'm ready to go back to fir. Just like to work with it better and it limbs easier.


----------



## coastalfaller

MMFaller39 said:


> Hey CoastalFaller, is that you or one of your employees on Madsen's page?



If your talking about that picture in the photo album, that would be me.


----------



## coastalfaller

Burvol said:


> I know, hard to believe. That's what I said. He said that stuff was so tall that it broke in mid air on the way down. I can't remember exactly where it's at, maybe the Queets or the Hoh river. One of those big drainages up on the Northwest corner of WA in the rainforest. It takes huge amounts of water, drainage, and sunlight to grow massive Dougies. Him and my mom went up there to find that unit this summer and got turned around, but they said there is still some hammer timber standing up there to this day, just like the stuff they cut.
> 
> I didn't get any pics today, but cut some nice Fir for this day and age, 30-40 on the stump and 4 36's. God, you should see the pine that's right on the unit line. It's got a healed chop scar from an old survey so I almost stole the darn thing LOL. Approx. 46" and TALL, don't even know how damn tall it is. Huge friggin' gunbarrel pine, nicest stick I have seen around here for pine in a long time that wasn't on the Yakama reservation. We are on the slopes of the Cascades in this unit, so kinda rare to see pine at all. But it's all prety darn nice for what is there, competing with that stand of big Fir. Pine is fun for a few days, then I'm ready to go back to fir. Just like to work with it better and it limbs easier.



Yeah, that sounds like beautiful timber, jaw dropping, drool inducing stuff! That kind of timber you were in today though sounds like the perfect size for high production, not as much effort/time to get on the ground and buck, but lots of volume. That pine sounds nice. When ever we get some pine out here on the coast it makes me cringe, it's usually not bad, but the rest of the timber in the block is usually awful, stunted gouty cedar. I hear you about the limbing too. We had a nice stand of fir a couple months ago that was about the same size as you were in today. Makes for a fun day, those ones where your glad your a faller!


----------



## Meadow Beaver

coastalfaller said:


> If your talking about that picture in the photo album, that would be me.



That's cool, I like the Timex in the face. :jester:


----------



## coastalfaller

MMFaller39 said:


> That's cool, I like the Timex in the face. :jester:



Ha, ha, yeah it quit for the last time on me. That Timex didn't take or licking or keep on ticking! It's probably still stamped in that stump!


----------



## Gologit

Cedarkerf said:


> I have the retired at home thing covered for ya.:hmm3grin2orange:



Thanks Brian, or whatever your name is. Been to Madsen's lately?


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> What was it from the other morning? Get up and get to work?:hmm3grin2orange:
> I'm thinking about that while sipping my steaming hot snooty coffee.



I knew I'd pay for that. Snooty coffee? Is that anything that _isn't_ Folger's Instant?

And I need some orange duct tape to patch up my Grundens...got any?


----------



## slowp

Gologit said:


> I knew I'd pay for that. Snooty coffee? Is that anything that _isn't_ Folger's Instant?
> 
> And I need some orange duct tape to patch up my Grundens...got any?



Only Turquoise and pink. I'd recommend the turquoise. And some shoe goo for reinforcement. Then they might last a couple more hours. 

Now back to falling, which was going on a little bit today. But more cussing was occuring because they were little limblocked trees and not the big ones. 
Chokers and line had to be fetched and hooked to the shovel, whilst the shovel operator mumbled about somebody trying to kill him...

And if it makes you feel any better, I burned my mouth on the coffee, I'll have to sue myself now.


----------



## Burvol

It's nice wood until you find a few trees with fruit. They are mostly all totally sound, they are all green, but have some conks, mistletoe, or wind shake as well. It's ripe fir. Most people don't realize not all the nice hammer stands of fir don't make it too oldgrowth size/age, like this one. It's nice big wood that needs to be cut. Should have been cut 20-30 years ago. There is a little bit of Bastard Growth in two small areas. That picture of me from a few days ago with a big fir was one of those trees trying to be at that stage of life. Then I robbed him, LOL. 

I'm sure the fir you guys (Coastal Faller) have not far offshore in BC is some specimens for sure. British Columbia is a pretty cool place I enjoyed seeing what I did of it. What do I need to do to cut in Canada?


----------



## Burvol

We need more pics, this is a re-run from last week lol. Bob, you have to have some recent photos for us! What about from that pine pic, anymore from that job? Cody?


----------



## Meadow Beaver

Burvol, how often do you cut wood that size? Also if you don't mind me asking who do you work for?


----------



## Cedarkerf

Dont Know if my pics are worthy of this thread but heres one only about 25 feet up. Ear muffs make for goofy pic I know guys in the past used to stand on top of spars a hundred+ feet high.


----------



## Burvol

Brian, I like it!


----------



## slowp

Brian, or Jeff, or ...why am I thinking about ants? Maybe too much cold and shade. 

Here's a hooktender cutting a tree. The one that is in awe because I worked with his mother umpteen million years ago. 

That's my fresh paint on the tree.


----------



## Burvol

MMFaller39 said:


> Burvol, how often do you cut wood that size? Also if you don't mind me asking who do you work for?



I have cut some fairly substantial Douglass Fir off and on all year this season when I finally got going in mid-summer. 

I'm a self-employed contract cutter. Sometimes I work on crews that I am not the boss, sometimes I am. I am now. I have cut logs for quite a few different logging outfits, but prefer to stay with one or two when I can. I keep the logging end of it confidential to a point, but I have nothing to hide. I prefer to just stay in my corner of the world to cut logs, fish for salmon and hang out with Lindsey. Arboristsite has been a cool place to find though. I have made some good friends and read some interesting and entertaining nuggets here, LOL


----------



## coastalfaller

Burvol said:


> It's nice wood until you find a few trees with fruit. They are mostly all totally sound, they are all green, but have some conks, mistletoe, or wind shake as well. It's ripe fir. Most people don't realize not all the nice hammer stands of fir don't make it too oldgrowth size/age, like this one. It's nice big wood that needs to be cut. Should have been cut 20-30 years ago. There is a little bit of Bastard Growth in two small areas. That picture of me from a few days ago with a big fir was one of those trees trying to be at that stage of life. Then I robbed him, LOL.
> 
> I'm sure the fir you guys (Coastal Faller) have not far offshore in BC is some specimens for sure. British Columbia is a pretty cool place I enjoyed seeing what I did of it. What do I need to do to cut in Canada?



Yeah, there's still some areas on Vancouver Island and on the mid coast with some beautiful stands of fir. What areas did you see? As far as falling in BC goes, it's all about certification here. You have to have the little card that says you can fall timber over 6"dbh! Without it, you can't legally fall timber. The whole process has been in place for the last 6 years, and it's still not working smoothly, but you know what they say about fighting city hall! For experienced fallers, like yourself, you can challenge the course. You would have little problem passing. It consists of a written exam and then field testing. If you got in on the grandfathering, which they did for the first 3 years, you could get your certification for free. Now, if you challenge the course, I believe it costs around $1200. 

If your a brand spanking new faller, no matter if your the son of faller or been around it your whole life, your treated like one of the guys who have seen Axemen, never been off a sidewalk in their life, but think it would be cool to be faller. (Even though their right, it is cool, they have no clue, and most have no acumen for it either, not to mention the attitude-think teenagers!) You have to take a month long course, I believe the first week is in a classroom, the rest is in the field working with a trainer. The cost for the course is $10 000, yes I said $10 000! Not to mention you supply your gear and have to put yourself up and feed yourself for the month. Your looking at around $16-18000. There are ways to get government sponsorship for the course, but a lot of hoops to jump through for it. In theory, it's a great idea, and there have been some guys come through it who will be and are good fallers. It just penalizes those of us who were breaking in fallers the right way.
Anyway, enough of a rant!


----------



## oregoncutter

slowp said:


> Brian, or Jeff, or ...why am I thinking about ants? Maybe too much cold and shade.
> 
> Here's a hooktender cutting a tree. The one that is in awe because I worked with his mother umpteen million years ago.
> 
> That's my fresh paint on the tree.



Hey, You don't let everybody highstump like that do You? If so my knees are headed North!


----------



## slowp

oregoncutter said:


> Hey, You don't let everybody highstump like that do You? If so my knees are headed North!



I do when it is for rigging. That tree also was quite a ways outside of the boundary so had to be left where it fell. Kind of limby anyway. We had to hike quite a ways UP to find suitable tailholds and then twister trees. The ground up there is loose pumice so reinforcing the tail trees and tailholds is a good thing. There was a lot of downhill yarding on this sale. I got in pretty good shape from chasing after the boys with my trusty can of paint.


----------



## oregoncutter

I figured as much! Just giving You a rough time. That's something I was thinking about the other day as I had to work outside my normal duties painting trees for a thinning harvest as I pulled the last frozen can of paint from my backpack at the bottom of the unit (my truck was at the top idling thawing out cans), was there has to be a better way!


----------



## slowp

Quart cans and a squeezy handled paint gun. You can paint from farther away too. And, with me being a bit mechanically challenged, I prefer the way fewer parts to keep tabs on Treecoder paint gun. It is the orange plastic one. Be sure to take the screen off the bottom before using it in paint. I can take this gun apart and diagnose any problems on the tailgate. 
The other has way more parts...I never even could figure out how to take it apart. 

You can add thinner to the quarts when it gets cold. 

I was idling yesterday to once again warm up a logger, who sees my pickup arrive and knows it will be warm. But it messes up my highly organized pickup cab!


----------



## Curlycherry1

slowp said:


> Quart cans and a squeezy handled paint gun. You can paint from farther away too. And, with me being a bit mechanically challenged, I prefer the way fewer parts to keep tabs on Treecoder paint gun. It is the orange plastic one. Be sure to take the screen off the bottom before using it in paint. I can take this gun apart and diagnose any problems on the tailgate.
> The other has way more parts...I never even could figure out how to take it apart.



Those pump and spray squeezy cans were what the foresters that I knew used. They used water based paints in the summer and in the winter they switched to some sort of solvent based paint in the winter. I helped one guy a few times in the winter. I was the tally guy. I had the clipboard and had to write down what he told me (tree #, DBH, height, scale). They could hit trees from some pretty good distances with those cans.

Something I am puzzling over from the pictures in this post that I have seen: why do the foresters mark all the way around those big trees? Isn't that a waste of time to go all the way around the tree? All I got to identify the trees I was to cut was a blue or red spot ~4-5" in diameter on the tree and one on the stump. They mark the stump in select cuts so as to know if unmarked trees were cut. The fines for cutting unmarked trees was steep. 4-5X the maximum log value. 

So why the mark all the way around the tree?


----------



## Gologit

Curlycherry1 said:


> So why the mark all the way around the tree?




They're easier for the fallers to see. We might come at the tree from any direction...if the mark is all around the tree we're not as apt to miss it. The foresters get grumpy if we miss any. 

It also gives the tree marking person more exercise...and something to grumble about.


----------



## Curlycherry1

Gologit said:


> They're easier for the fallers to see. We might come at the tree from any direction...if the mark is all around the tree we're not as apt to miss it. The foresters get grumpy if we miss any.
> 
> It also gives the tree marking person more exercise...and something to grumble about.



As a marking person that would suck to have to mark those beasts all the way around them. Gawdaweful time consuming also. Not to mention all the paint that would take. I wonder how many million trips back to the truck to replenish the paint tank they have to do per contract? 

The foresters I worked with did mark trees within 20' of the property lines by marking all the way around, usually with a different color like yellow. That gave us a view of where the line was so we did not drop trees over it if possible.

I gotta give you guys some good natured poking for not being able to see a spot on a tree and needing the whole thing ringed with paint, maybe you guys need to walk a bit more and open your eyes? Aren't most of your contracts clearcuts? 

I got stuck with a selective firewood cut one time where the trees to be taken were about 75' apart and were about 1 of 15 in the area. So it was a bad game of where's Waldo in that contract. The kicker was that I would get pinged if I damaged any of the remaining trees and that included bumping against them skidding the logs out.


----------



## Gologit

Curlycherry1 said:


> As a marking person that would suck to have to mark those beasts all the way around them. Gawdaweful time consuming also. Not to mention all the paint that would take. I wonder how many million trips back to the truck to replenish the paint tank they have to do per contract?
> 
> 
> I gotta give you guys some good natured poking for not being able to see a spot on a tree and needing the whole thing ringed with paint, maybe you guys need to walk a bit more and open your eyes? Aren't most of your contracts clearcuts?



:hmm3grin2orange: First of all, we *don't care* how much extra effort goes into marking the trees. (I'll catch hell from Slowp for this) What we *do* care about is being able to stand in one place and plan out some kind of falling sequence that keeps us in lead. Having the trees marked all the way around is a big help in steep brushy ground where our direction of skidder travel and lay out are pretty much determined by the terrain. Terrain rules....especially out here .

And you're right about the clear cuts...that's mostly what I do. But, the leave trees, the re-gen trees, the boundary trees and such are the ones that are marked in that case and it sure helps to be able to see them clearly. I work mostly on private ground but we're checker-boarded with Federal and State ground and you most definitely do not want to get over the line. Everybody gets grumpy when you do that and there's all that damn paperwork to fill out.

A little extra paint and a little extra effort on the part of the tree marker can sure make our job easier.

Besides, _most_ of the FS and State people that I see marking timber look like they could really use the exercise. It's always fun, when they come huffing and puffing back up to the road, to point out a tree waaaaay down in the unit and say "I think you missed that one".


----------



## slowp

Gologit;1884588
A little extra paint and a little extra effort on the part of the tree marker can sure make our job easier.
Besides said:


> most[/I] of the FS and State people that I see marking timber look like they could really use the exercise. It's always fun, when they come huffing and puffing back up to the road, to point out a tree waaaaay down in the unit and say "I think you missed that one".



Yes, that's a game to play. But with me it is usually, "We decided to change the tailhold and lift trees and you'll need to paint the new ones." 

I don't mark all the way around the tree. Usually, on steep ground, all you need is a stump mark and a higher slash on the DOWNHILL side. The cutters are working from the bottom up. On FLAT SKIDDER TYPE ground, which around here is apt to be cut with a buncher, you will need more paint on the tree. And some operators have WHINED and want reflective paint so they can see it in the dark. That's NO from me. NO. Get your own reflective paint. 

I just mark out the corridors, skid trails, landings and tail trees and anything else that tickles the logger's fancy (within reason). We now have the loggers mark their own trees, and that gets a mixed reaction. They either hate it or get a kick out of it, depending of course, on how much they get paid. The fallers that turned into markers thought it was great. Paint weighs less than a saw. The didn't spell BEES completely on one tree, I noticed. 

I think fallers make the best markers. They understand the concept of having a strip and tying in with their partners. That's a big no no, a missed area. Big no no. 

The youngsters on the rigging crew are in awe of my paint gun. And I'll sternly tell them to STAND BACK (unless they've been bad) and I spray the tree. I think people who work in the woods are easily amused, and I include myself in that statement. 

Here's another lesson, environmentalists and 'ologists don't like dollar signs painted on the nice trees. :biggrinbounce2: And sometimes your boss might come down in the unit and see his name by SUCKS. :biggrinbounce2: And don't paint the cows either. Or put stripes on the road, or....


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> Here's another lesson, environmentalists and 'ologists don't like dollar signs painted on the nice trees. :biggrinbounce2: And sometimes your boss might come down in the unit and see his name by SUCKS. :biggrinbounce2: And don't paint the cows either. Or put stripes on the road, or....



LOL...we had a landing rat that was painting FSOT on the backs of big logs when he'd brand them on the truck. Several loads went down the hill before somebody figured out that FSOT meant Former Spotted Owl Tree. He switched to just painting a little owl silhouette inside a circle with a slash through it but they made him quit that, too. No sense of humor in those green pickups sometimes.


----------



## slowp

Oh, another fact to know. Timber fallers have extremely good eyesight when in a patch of good timber, and are able to see and point out the most minute speck of paint, if it is a cut tree marked unit.  As in, "See this speck of paint? The rest must've faded away along with the stump mark so you better paint it." Or, "I cut it because see, it had paint on it and they must've forgot to put a stump mark on it."

Try for no overspray when marking timber. Pay attention to the wind direction.


----------



## oregoncutter

slowp said:


> Yes, that's a game to play. But with me it is usually, "We decided to change the tailhold and lift trees and you'll need to paint the new ones."
> 
> I don't mark all the way around the tree. Usually, on steep ground, all you need is a stump mark and a higher slash on the DOWNHILL side. The cutters are working from the bottom up. On FLAT SKIDDER TYPE ground, which around here is apt to be cut with a buncher, you will need more paint on the tree. And some operators have WHINED and want reflective paint so they can see it in the dark. That's NO from me. NO. Get your own reflective paint.
> 
> I just mark out the corridors, skid trails, landings and tail trees and anything else that tickles the logger's fancy (within reason). We now have the loggers mark their own trees, and that gets a mixed reaction. They either hate it or get a kick out of it, depending of course, on how much they get paid. The fallers that turned into markers thought it was great. Paint weighs less than a saw. The didn't spell BEES completely on one tree, I noticed.
> 
> I think fallers make the best markers. They understand the concept of having a strip and tying in with their partners. That's a big no no, a missed area. Big no no.
> 
> The youngsters on the rigging crew are in awe of my paint gun. And I'll sternly tell them to STAND BACK (unless they've been bad) and I spray the tree. I think people who work in the woods are easily amused, and I include myself in that statement.
> 
> Here's another lesson, environmentalists and 'ologists don't like dollar signs painted on the nice trees. :biggrinbounce2: And sometimes your boss might come down in the unit and see his name by SUCKS. :biggrinbounce2: And don't paint the cows either. Or put stripes on the road, or....



I agree, only problem is I only have myself to cuss later over leave and take trees, makes for an interesting conversation with myself. I agree from running a buncher here and there a mark around the whole tree is the only way to go, don't allways know when painting which direction I might come into a tree from. Also helps me when I look back to see my last mark.


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> Oh, another fact to know. Timber fallers have extremely good eyesight when in a patch of good timber, and are able to see and point out the most minute speck of paint, if it is a cut tree marked unit.  As in, "See this speck of paint? The rest must've faded away along with the stump mark so you better paint it." Or, "I cut it because see, it had paint on it and they must've forgot to put a stump mark on it."
> 
> Try for no overspray when marking timber. Pay attention to the wind direction.



Eyesight can be a selective thing.  Sometimes, late in the day when you're hurrying to get done, your eyesight might get real good...or just kinda fail you altogether. Wearing glasses is a big help and a great excuse for missing a doghair way down in a corner when it's five minutes past quitting time and you have a long pack to the road. " I had dust on my glasses and missed that tree...just have the skidder knock it over".


----------



## Curlycherry1

Gologit said:


> A little extra paint and a little extra effort on the part of the tree marker can sure make our job easier.



In the construction trade we would call that passing it on to the next trade. The excavator digs a bad hole and expects the foundation guys to correct it. The foundation guys make a bad foundation and expect the framers to make it right. The framers pass on a bad framing to the drywallers and the drywallers leave it to the trim carpenters. The trim carpenters are the ones that get stuck with finally making it right, even though it was the excavator that could not follow grade.


----------



## Burvol

Gologit said:


> Eyesight can be a selective thing.  Sometimes, late in the day when you're hurrying to get done, your eyesight might get real good...or just kinda fail you altogether. Wearing glasses is a big help and a great excuse for missing a doghair way down in a corner when it's five minutes past quitting time and you have a long pack to the road. " I had dust on my glasses and missed that tree...just have the skidder knock it over".



That reminds of me a story, not sure if I told you guys or not. I've told Slowp about the patch of Silver and White fir we cut north of Adams that was a stand full of huge wood. 
They left some trees for seed and wildlife, and some happened to look really nice and tall. I was having a nice day in some big wood and just kept my strip going. I was bucking one of those nice trees when my Dad came up to me while I was limbing. I actually grinned and said something about the wood being so nice. He was pissed! He then said something to me about wanting to be some big shot timber faller and this and that, and I said "what?". He pointed to painted ring on the tree and I said "what ring?" And that one! He says. I slid my amber lens Stihl glasses down and saw the yellow paint. Oh ####! I thought. I quickly handed my glasses to my Dad and made him look. He was just as shocked as I was. I left a few big ones in my strip for a trade and told the guy on the shovel to scrape the bark off with his grapples in the landing. It all turned out ok. I know longer wear those shades in heavliy marked units, or orange and yellow.


----------



## forestryworks

those amber lenses had me screwed up. they're bad in the summer when the sun is at its brightest.


----------



## Gologit

Burvol said:


> That reminds of me a story, not sure if I told you guys or not. I've told Slowp about the patch of Silver and White fir we cut north of Adams that was a stand full of huge wood.
> They left some trees for seed and wildlife, and some happened to look really nice and tall. I was having a nice day in some big wood and just kept my strip going. I was bucking one of those nice trees when my Dad came up to me while I was limbing. I actually grinned and said something about the wood being so nice. He was pissed! He then said something to me about wanting to be some big shot timber faller and this and that, and I said "what?". He pointed to painted ring on the tree and I said "what ring?" And that one! He says. I slid my amber lens Stihl glasses down and saw the yellow paint. Oh ####! I thought. I quickly handed my glasses to my Dad and made him look. He was just as shocked as I was. I left a few big ones in my strip for a trade and told the guy on the shovel to scrape the bark off with his grapples in the landing. It all turned out ok. I know longer wear those shades in heavliy marked units, or orange and yellow.




LOL...It happens. One our truck drivers went through a FS accountability inspection and they asked him "What do you do if you lose a FS log off of your load?" He told them "Well, I'd make sure to chop the brand out of the end before I rolled it over the bank". They didn't like that answer too much.


----------



## Gologit

Curlycherry1 said:


> In the construction trade we would call that passing it on to the next trade. The excavator digs a bad hole and expects the foundation guys to correct it. The foundation guys make a bad foundation and expect the framers to make it right. The framers pass on a bad framing to the drywallers and the drywallers leave it to the trim carpenters. The trim carpenters are the ones that get stuck with finally making it right, even though it was the excavator that could not follow grade.




Hmmmm...that make sense. Now I know how my house got to be the way it is.


----------



## tramp bushler

Been workin my butt off , Havn,t been around for some time , Hows the hand coming ??


----------



## Burvol

tramp bushler said:


> Been workin my butt off , Havn,t been around for some time , Hows the hand coming ??



The scar on the skin is healing beautiful, almost amazing. The bone, meat, and tendon is screwed up. I can cut logs, so I am very happy! The cold weather hurts it like a mother. It got cold for here last week, 0-5 for work temps all day. Fairly uncommon anymore. How are you guys doing up north?


----------



## slowp

I tried wearing those amber safety glasses for marking and had the same problem. I think there's another tint that makes it hard to distinguish between blue and green. 

The accountability auditors don't like to hear our side about what happens in the real world either. 

But somehow, we used to recognize logs and would have a pretty good idea where they came from after the truck drivers whacked the ends off--always a lot on "weigh day". But we didn't get the rumored to exist xray machine out to the woods. 

How do you get an old growth sized log off the truck halfway down the haul road and keep the others on? And not get hurt, maimed or killed? What is the technique? I'm talking 7 log load size.


----------



## Burvol

You crawl up there with a wire brush and a hatchet if they are exposed. The marks need to be "blended gracefully" LOL


----------



## slowp

Burvol said:


> You crawl up there with a wire brush and a hatchet if they are exposed. The marks need to be "blended gracefully" LOL



I've seen that. I'm wondering about the days when the State Patrol used to show up--about once a year with their portable scales. Suddenly, there'd be logs in the road ditches with the ends cut off. Decent sized logs. 

The Morton Permanent weigh station could be easily avoided by going around.
But the portable scales were another matter. One big outfit had all 20+ trucks "break down" along their haul route. The cops went into the woods that day. One gypo, who would haul astronomical loads normally, would not haul that day. I think he had a mole in the works. The state would make a lot of money on weigh day and the CB would be busy with whining and questions of "Did they get you?". 

The only trucks that would go unscathed were the ones hauling to Oregon because they got weighed on just about every trip. 

On the subject of marking, when a faller cuts the paint off with the saw, it really really stands out. I've seen this a couple of times. The bark is gone in a nice little line and the stump mark also. It just doesn't look quite natural.


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> I've seen that. I'm wondering about the days when the State Patrol used to show up--about once a year with their portable scales. Suddenly, there'd be logs in the road ditches with the ends cut off. Decent sized logs.
> 
> The Morton Permanent weigh station could be easily avoided by going around.
> But the portable scales were another matter. One big outfit had all 20+ trucks "break down" along their haul route. The cops went into the woods that day. One gypo, who would haul astronomical loads normally, would not haul that day. I think he had a mole in the works. The state would make a lot of money on weigh day and the CB would be busy with whining and questions of "Did they get you?".
> 
> The only trucks that would go unscathed were the ones hauling to Oregon because they got weighed on just about every trip.
> 
> On the subject of marking, when a faller cuts the paint off with the saw, it really really stands out. I've seen this a couple of times. The bark is gone in a nice little line and the stump mark also. It just doesn't look quite natural.



LOL...It's pretty hard for us guys in the woods to come up with anything that a good experienced FS person hasn't seen before. We try, though. There's getting to be less of those old time FS people around . 

With big logs, no, you don't roll them off. Too much money involved and it's a sure way to get kicked off a job. With smaller stuff, especially if it's bug kill or burn salvage...well, things happen. If the wrappers get loose and a small wing log unstakes and starts dragging it's just easier to choke the dirt end to a stump and drag it the rest of the way off. The time and money it would take to get a loader to you and reload one little log just isn't worth it. On larger stuff you might be able to choke one end, throw the bitter end over the load, put it under a tire and drive on the line to pull it back up but that gets a little dicey...takes about three guys who know exactly what they're doing. 

If a log comes off the best way to get rid of it is to put a Do Not Cut For Firewood sign on it. It'll be gone the next day.


----------



## Greystoke

Burvol said:


> We need more pics, this is a re-run from last week lol. Bob, you have to have some recent photos for us! What about from that pine pic, anymore from that job? Cody?



Here are some pics from when I was falling timber for Columbia, in Concrete Washington, Winter of 97 I beleive? Bunch of spindly little second growth. I know I looked like I was 12, but I was actually 19 in these pics, was married and had a kid on the way!

This was a cool waterfall that was in my strip:







I was wearing all of my ppe:











Oh Yayeah! I was the man...or at least I thought I was! lol!





Look at the pathetic little paint mark on this tree.


----------



## slowp

tarzanstree said:


> Here are some pics from when I was falling timber for Columbia, in Concrete Washington, Winter of 97 I beleive? Bunch of spindly little second growth. I know I looked like I was 12, but I was actually 19 in these pics, was married and had a kid on the way!
> 
> 
> *Look at the pathetic little paint mark on this tree.*



It must have been a bit of a hike in, or the marker was running out of paint but too close to quitting time to go back and get another can, or...

I have had to remark corridors 3 times  because the paint would not stick on wet trees, and the logger was too slow to get them cut out before the paint washed off. In fact, about the time you were cutting that, was the time the new non-baby killing paint came out. It didn't stick very well at all if the bark was wet. 

Yes, when you notice the skidder is rubbing all the bark off the bottoms of stumps in a leave tree area, on trees that look like they would have been leave trees, it is time to start crawling around looking at the ground. And then get the Secret Squirrel guys with guns out.


----------



## Greystoke

slowp said:


> It must have been a bit of a hike in, or the marker was running out of paint but too close to quitting time to go back and get another can, or...
> 
> I have had to remark corridors 3 times  because the paint would not stick on wet trees, and the logger was too slow to get them cut out before the paint washed off. In fact, about the time you were cutting that, was the time the new non-baby killing paint came out. It didn't stick very well at all if the bark was wet.
> 
> Yes, when you notice the skidder is rubbing all the bark off the bottoms of stumps in a leave tree area, on trees that look like they would have been leave trees, it is time to start crawling around looking at the ground. And then get the Secret Squirrel guys with guns out.



It was probably just because the mill that we were working for was too cheap to use more paint, but...the nice thing was that we would not get into any trouble if we had to cut an unmarked one...they understood, as long as we kept it within reason


----------



## Burvol

I see you were running Husky and switched before the new generation of the good smooth ones came out. How did you get started as a cutter?


----------



## Greystoke

Burvol said:


> I see you were running Husky and switched before the new generation of the good smooth ones came out



Actually I stuck with them, as I had several modded 394's. I never switched til I got to Humboldt County and noticed that all of the guys that were cutting the big trees, coincidentally had big chainsaws, so I bought a hopped up 088, and loved it. My next saw after that was a modified 066, and I have had several of them and really like em, although, imho, both Husky and Stihl have their goods and bads. 



> How did you get started as a cutter?



I didn't have a choice; My Dad was a faller and let me finish off a back cut of a nice spruce tree when I was about 6, and I thought it was the most glorious thing in the world! Bought my first brand new chainsaw (535 Jonsered) when I was 12, and was off and running! I will have to see if my Mom can dig up some old pics of my outfit complete with cork boots, hickory, suspenders, stagged pants, log counter, outfitted wedge belt, and mac t; I even had inside chaps. My Dad won a little husky in a cutting contest so I had a brand new back up, and bought an old mccullough pro-mac 850 for my BIG saw!lol Anyhow, I worked for my uncle in the summers and weekends falling post and pole sales, until my Dad quit his fallin job and went into business with a post and pole outfit. After school I would buck tree length lodgepole into posts and poles, and do various other things around the post plant. On weekends and all summer I was working in the woods with my Dad. Then I quit school end of my sophomore year and Dad and I took a job for another logger...and I finally got to fall some non-post and pole timber! As soon as I was 18 I had to move on to the big boys...fell timber for a local guy for a few months, until he put me to hooking indefinitely, so I gave Columbia a call, and they took a chance on me...the rest is history  It was funny when I first started for them all the guys called me "schoolboy", as I would have been a Senior in high school that year. I never really took the time to be a kid, but I'm making up for it now!


----------



## Greystoke

Burvol said:


> That reminds of me a story, not sure if I told you guys or not. I've told Slowp about the patch of Silver and White fir we cut north of Adams that was a stand full of huge wood.
> They left some trees for seed and wildlife, and some happened to look really nice and tall. I was having a nice day in some big wood and just kept my strip going. I was bucking one of those nice trees when my Dad came up to me while I was limbing. I actually grinned and said something about the wood being so nice. He was pissed! He then said something to me about wanting to be some big shot timber faller and this and that, and I said "what?". He pointed to painted ring on the tree and I said "what ring?" And that one! He says. I slid my amber lens Stihl glasses down and saw the yellow paint. Oh ####! I thought. I quickly handed my glasses to my Dad and made him look. He was just as shocked as I was. I left a few big ones in my strip for a trade and told the guy on the shovel to scrape the bark off with his grapples in the landing. It all turned out ok. I know longer wear those shades in heavliy marked units, or orange and yellow.



That was a good story! I wish I could remember all the times my Dad yelled at me in my strip.


----------



## tramp bushler

*An idea that may help !*



Burvol said:


> The scar on the skin is healing beautiful, almost amazing. The bone, meat, and tendon is screwed up. I can cut logs, so I am very happy! The cold weather hurts it like a mother. It got cold for here last week, 0-5 for work temps all day. Fairly uncommon anymore. How are you guys doing up north?


 .

.

. My left hand , my " bushlin " hand has been really banged up over the years ... Hurts most all the time . I cut the end of my index finger off a few years ago and it gets cold very easily .. I fought cold hands until I learned , you can,t just keep your hands warm .. Got to keep the blood warm till it gets to your hands .......... It is actually pretty warm here -5 thru -20 .. Last winter it was -50 thru -60 here and I had alot of days I couldn,t go to work . I don,t go to the woods if it,s colder than -35 . Had lots of that last winter ..... It,s different when -20 isn,t cold .... Right over in Tok (" pronounced Toke" like joke ) it gets into the minus 70s F . You just hunker down in those temps . When you spit hard and fast at the ground it is ice time it gets to the snow . .
ok I,m rambiling ,
.
. My idea, wear a big Thick 300 or 400 weight polyester fleece pull over , if it warms up a little,, get from somewhere,( thrift shop . Salvation Army , ect .) some fleece pullovers and cut the sleeve off especially the left sleeve , and put it on either under or over what ever top layer you wear ....... . Fallers have an attitude problem when it gets cold , because the cold makes you change how you cut ... Not the least of which is you can,t swing your timber like you can @ 40 degrees above ...But also , Your body doesn,t hold it,s temps inside right .. Breathing hard hurts , the rewind freezes on your saw ..ect. ect. ... Don,t fight it , it,s as bad as fighting the wind only quieter . You have to adapt to it for when it is there .... I put out as much wood in a day here in the winter as I usually do in the summer . But it is dark to dark . and I have to get in the crummy a couple times to warm up @ -5thru -30 . At minus 30 I leave the crummy running all day . 7.3 l International diesel . . It takes alot more clothes tho , and it isn't as comfortable . It,s actually pretty hard .........But I can get a job workin at a gas station , or I can use my brain and be a man and work .... A friend of mine says " you gotta be tough to live in Alaska ". Also wearing choppers over your gloves helps , and on the left hand isn,t bad ...


----------



## Burvol

tramp bushler said:


> .
> 
> .
> 
> . My left hand , my " bushlin " hand has been really banged up over the years ... Hurts most all the time . I cut the end of my index finger off a few years ago and it gets cold very easily .. I fought cold hands until I learned , you can,t just keep your hands warm .. Got to keep the blood warm till it gets to your hands .......... It is actually pretty warm here -5 thru -20 .. Last winter it was -50 thru -60 here and I had alot of days I couldn,t go to work . I don,t go to the woods if it,s colder than -35 . Had lots of that last winter ..... It,s different when -20 isn,t cold .... Right over in Tok (" pronounced Toke" like joke ) it gets into the minus 70s F . You just hunker down in those temps . When you spit hard and fast at the ground it is ice time it gets to the snow . .
> ok I,m rambiling ,
> .
> . My idea, wear a big Thick 300 or 400 weight polyester fleece pull over , if it warms up a little,, get from somewhere,( thrift shop . Salvation Army , ect .) some fleece pullovers and cut the sleeve off especially the left sleeve , and put it on either under or over what ever top layer you wear ....... . Fallers have an attitude problem when it gets cold , because the cold makes you change how you cut ... Not the least of which is you can,t swing your timber like you can @ 40 degrees above ...But also , Your body doesn,t hold it,s temps inside right .. Breathing hard hurts , the rewind freezes on your saw ..ect. ect. ... Don,t fight it , it,s as bad as fighting the wind only quieter . You have to adapt to it for when it is there .... I put out as much wood in a day here in the winter as I usually do in the summer . But it is dark to dark . and I have to get in the crummy a couple times to warm up @ -5thru -30 . At minus 30 I leave the crummy running all day . 7.3 l International diesel . . It takes alot more clothes tho , and it isn't as comfortable . It,s actually pretty hard .........But I can get a job workin at a gas station , or I can use my brain and be a man and work .... A friend of mine says " you gotta be tough to live in Alaska ". Also wearing choppers over your gloves helps , and on the left hand isn,t bad ...



My God, that sounds like survival alright...I'll go enjoy my week now! LOL!!!!


----------



## Burvol

tarzanstree said:


> Actually I stuck with them, as I had several modded 394's. I never switched til I got to Humboldt County and noticed that all of the guys that were cutting the big trees, coincidentally had big chainsaws, so I bought a hopped up 088, and loved it. My next saw after that was a modified 066, and I have had several of them and really like em, although, imho, both Husky and Stihl have their goods and bads.
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't have a choice; My Dad was a faller and let me finish off a back cut of a nice spruce tree when I was about 6, and I thought it was the most glorious thing in the world! Bought my first brand new chainsaw (535 Jonsered) when I was 12, and was off and running! I will have to see if my Mom can dig up some old pics of my outfit complete with cork boots, hickory, suspenders, stagged pants, log counter, outfitted wedge belt, and mac t; I even had inside chaps. My Dad won a little husky in a cutting contest so I had a brand new back up, and bought an old mccullough pro-mac 850 for my BIG saw!lol Anyhow, I worked for my uncle in the summers and weekends falling post and pole sales, until my Dad quit his fallin job and went into business with a post and pole outfit. After school I would buck tree length lodgepole into posts and poles, and do various other things around the post plant. On weekends and all summer I was working in the woods with my Dad. Then I quit school end of my sophomore year and Dad and I took a job for another logger...and I finally got to fall some non-post and pole timber! As soon as I was 18 I had to move on to the big boys...fell timber for a local guy for a few months, until he put me to hooking indefinitely, so I gave Columbia a call, and they took a chance on me...the rest is history  It was funny when I first started for them all the guys called me "schoolboy", as I would have been a Senior in high school that year. I never really took the time to be a kid, but I'm making up for it now!




Actually those 394's were the cat's meow for Husky and have hardly changed. Just don't like the outboard clutch, and was not a huge 288 fan. Proabably why I use to love Stihls. 

That's a cool story Cody. Having the confidecne to believe in yourself and carry yourself is all it takes to make it (if ya got the skills as well  lol). You should be able to outcut us all. When you comin' back to work???? You weren't young and cocky at times where you? LOL I can't imagine you would be as an 18 year old cutting for a ship, the pinnacle of most vet's carrer...LOL. Just ribbing ya dude, what a neat deal though


----------



## Greystoke

Burvol said:


> Actually those 394's were the cat's meow for Husky and have hardly changed. Just don't like the outboard clutch, and was not a huge 288 fan. Proabably why I use to love Stihls.
> 
> That's a cool story Cody. Having the confidecne to believe in yourself and carry yourself is all it takes to make it (if ya got the skills as well  lol). You should be able to outcut us all. When you comin' back to work???? You weren't young and cocky at times where you? LOL I can't imagine you would be as an 18 year old cutting for a ship, the pinnacle of most vet's carrer...LOL. Just ribbing ya dude, what a neat deal though



Yeah I am lucky I lived through some of my Cocky maneuvers! Scares the he-double l out of me now, knowing what a green horn I was, and some of the close calls I had. Anyhow, How did you get started Falling Timber?


----------



## tramp bushler

tarzanstree said:


> Actually I stuck with them, as I had several modded 394's. I never switched til I got to Humboldt County and noticed that all of the guys that were cutting the big trees, coincidentally had big chainsaws, so I bought a hopped up 088, and loved it. My next saw after that was a modified 066, and I have had several of them and really like em, although, imho, both Husky and Stihl have their goods and bads.
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't have a choice; My Dad was a faller and let me finish off a back cut of a nice spruce tree when I was about 6, and I thought it was the most glorious thing in the world! Bought my first brand new chainsaw (535 Jonsered) when I was 12, and was off and running! I will have to see if my Mom can dig up some old pics of my outfit complete with cork boots, hickory, suspenders, stagged pants, log counter, outfitted wedge belt, and mac t; I even had inside chaps. My Dad won a little husky in a cutting contest so I had a brand new back up, and bought an old mccullough pro-mac 850 for my BIG saw!lol Anyhow, I worked for my uncle in the summers and weekends falling post and pole sales, until my Dad quit his fallin job and went into business with a post and pole outfit. After school I would buck tree length lodgepole into posts and poles, and do various other things around the post plant. On weekends and all summer I was working in the woods with my Dad. Then I quit school end of my sophomore year and Dad and I took a job for another logger...and I finally got to fall some non-post and pole timber! As soon as I was 18 I had to move on to the big boys...fell timber for a local guy for a few months, until he put me to hooking indefinitely, so I gave Columbia a call, and they took a chance on me...the rest is history  It was funny when I first started for them all the guys called me "schoolboy", as I would have been a Senior in high school that year. I never really took the time to be a kid, but I'm making up for it now!


.
.

I started when I was 12 also . But was running my dad's Macullouch Super 2 10 Automatic , with a 16" bar .. balsam fir was selling for 48$ a cord for pulp at the mill in Millinocket 
...Poplar pulp was selling for 19$ a cord . both in 4' lengths . I fell, limbed and bucked in the woods and my Dad logged it with the tractoy and wood trailer , or in the winter a short wood sled . I could cut almost a cord on a good hard day .. We moved it all by hand with pulp hooks .... It's pretty weird , That is pretty much exactly what I am doing right now ... Execpt I am using an Arctic Cat 440 Panther , and a sled I built , I can haul 1/3 rd of a cord on it .. .I use a pulp hook .. I would be lost without one . I even use it to beat wedges , tipping over these dead white Spruce ........ Directional falling is Real important when you move the wood by hand , and some of them weigh 300 lbs ....Oh and my 50 th birthday is 6 months away ................And I work alone cause I are so mean and cranky no one can work with me ...
AHH ,,,,,The joys of being a BUSHLER !!!!!!!! 
. Before any one gets any ,( poor old guy ) ideas . I,m averaging 42$ an hour 6 hrs a day , 5 days a week .. Not getting rich by any strech of the imagination ....... But , I really enjoy what I do !!!!! And I get to stop and blow a predator call and wait with the 223 and spot light on the way out !!!!!! ...
. I get the( value) out of value added forest products industry .


----------



## Greystoke

tramp bushler said:


> .
> .
> 
> I started when I was 12 also . But was running my dad's Macullouch Super 2 10 Automatic , with a 16" bar .. balsam fir was selling for 48$ a cord for pulp at the mill in Millinocket
> ...Poplar pulp was selling for 19$ a cord . both in 4' lengths . I fell, limbed and bucked in the woods and my Dad logged it with the tractoy and wood trailer , or in the winter a short wood sled . I could cut almost a cord on a good hard day .. We moved it all by hand with pulp hooks .... It's pretty weird , That is pretty much exactly what I am doing right now ... Execpt I am using an Arctic Cat 440 Panther , and a sled I built , I can haul 1/3 rd of a cord on it .. .I use a pulp hook .. I would be lost without one . I even use it to beat wedges , tipping over these dead white Spruce ........ Directional falling is Real important when you move the wood by hand , and some of them weigh 300 lbs ....Oh and my 50 th birthday is 6 months away ................And I work alone cause I are so mean and cranky no one can work with me ...
> AHH ,,,,,The joys of being a BUSHLER !!!!!!!!
> . Before any one gets any ,( poor old guy ) ideas . I,m averaging 42$ an hour 6 hrs a day , 5 days a week .. Not getting rich by any strech of the imagination ....... But , I really enjoy what I do !!!!! And I get to stop and blow a predator call and wait with the 223 and spot light on the way out !!!!!! ...
> . I get the( value) out of value added forest products industry .



Sounds like your having fun to me! Wish I was even makin $42 a DAY right now, as things are dead for me.


----------



## 056 kid

you guys are very lucky dudes....


----------



## tramp bushler

Cody , can,t you cut some firewood ? It ain,t fallin timber full time , but it helps pass the time ...And brings in a few bucks ......


----------



## Greystoke

tramp bushler said:


> Cody , can,t you cut some firewood ? It ain,t fallin timber full time , but it helps pass the time ...And brings in a few bucks ......



Yeah I definitely could cut some firewood, but unfortunately this is the only rig I own right now:






Can't haul much firewood in it, but it hauls all of my chainsaws, climbing gear, and tools with no problems. Not a bad little tree rig. Gets good mileage, will go anywhere, and I acquired the lockable metal topper for free, just had to shorten it up a bit, and then I built the bed-slide, which greatly improved this rigs functionality...Okay, I'm a little proud!










I would like to get a snow plow for it to pick up some slack in the winter. Anybody know of a good one?





To get back on topic...The only places I know of around here where there is a lot of firewood is a long ways off, probably 2 to 3 feet of snow in the road by now, and is on Federal ground where you have to have all the permits. All the easy, close-to-town stuff has been picked over by everybody and their Brother. Ticks me off when I see a nice stick of wood that was lost over backwards, with the evidence showing with the picasso looking stump :bang:. My Buddy was wanting me to go help him fill his dump bed trailer, so that we could make a little money; we were just waiting on his tire chains to get here, but unfortunately, we just got some snow in the valley, and I am sure where we were wanting to go is snowed in now. Anyhow, not quite as easy to get a load of good wood as it was on Prince of Wales Island, where you could drive out of town ten minutes, dump a nice yellow cedar snag in the road, and you didn't have to have a permit. I really miss living up there sometimes  especially when I had to purchase a Christmas tree permit this year, to go into the Lochsa and cut a white fir. I Guess that's what I get for moving back here!


----------



## Meadow Beaver

Is that a 3120 in the back of your truck Cody? Geez I thought you would have gone with an 880.


----------



## Greystoke

MMFaller39 said:


> Is that a 3120 in the back of your truck Cody? Geez I thought you would have gone with an 880.



Look at the first pic...088 fitted with a 54" bar. I just have the 3120 for bucking big, dirty wood, as it is just stock, and is a dog. My 088 is a screamer, so I try to only use it for falling, and bucking clean wood. It was the one that I used on the few glory trees that I fell during my career as a full time professional timber faller. Hopefully soon they will find a huge planet covered with huge trees that they can send me and my 088 to open up some holes


----------



## Meadow Beaver

tarzanstree said:


> Look at the first pic...088 fitted with a 54" bar. I just have the 3120 for bucking big, dirty wood, as it is just stock, and is a dog. My 088 is a screamer, so I try to only use it for falling, and bucking clean wood. It was the one that I used on the few glory trees that I fell during my career as a full time professional timber faller. Hopefully soon they will find a huge planet covered with huge trees that they can send me and my 088 to open up some holes



I know right, this planet is about shot for logging, we gota find a planet 3x the size of Earth and covered in black walnuts 30ft on the stump.  That would mean Stihl would have to bring back the 090 10 cube.


----------



## Greystoke

MMFaller39 said:


> I know right, this planet is about shot for logging, we gota find a planet 3x the size of Earth and covered in black walnuts 30ft on the stump.  That would mean Stihl would have to bring back the 090 10 cube.



Naah, not black walnuts for me. These would suffice though:






Without the little hoity toity hiking trail though


----------



## tramp bushler

On the ground and on the hat !!!! You need a trailer , a nice little tandem axle w/ brakes trailer ...... I Know , The bucks .. That is my problem also . I am acquiring pickups . Got 3 so far and another with a snow plow on it on the way I hope .....But I can only drive one at a time ...I need a good trailer w/ brakes , then I can develop the Valdez firewood market ........ Deliver 3 cord for 175$ a cord and 100$ delivery fee.. My 1 ton Ford crummy / delivery could pull it very well , and w/ 1 cord in it , it would have traction and enough weight to control the load ......I want to get one without payments tho .. Big enough to haul a dozer on also .. All we all need is the bucks !!!! You have a great looking set up there .... The wife and I will start praying for something to come up for you ! .............


----------



## Metals406

tarzanstree said:


> I would like to get a snow plow for it to pick up some slack in the winter. Anybody know of a good one?



Cody, these plows are available from SIX ROBBLEES' in Missoula. . . I guess they're a really, really good bang for your buck. We were considering becoming a dealer for them up here.

http://www.snowdoggplows.com/


----------



## Greystoke

tramp bushler said:


> The wife and I will start praying for something to come up for you ! ............. ....



Thanks pardner, I appreciate it. I'll be okay; At least my wife has a good job! Besides I have lots of off season things I can be doing (probably should be doing that instead of b'sing on the computer,lol). Finally got my saw shop close by, and I have lots of work to do in there!


----------



## Greystoke

Metals406 said:


> Cody, these plows are available from SIX ROBBLEES' in Missoula. . . I guess they're a really, really good bang for your buck. We were considering becoming a dealer for them up here.
> 
> http://www.snowdoggplows.com/



Hey thanks man! I appreciate that  I will check them out...then see if I have the fundage!


----------



## Meadow Beaver

tarzanstree said:


> Naah, not black walnuts for me. These would suffice though:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Without the little hoity toity hiking trail though




Hey I'd like to cut any tree over 3ft through it, but you don't see many like that around here.


----------



## Metals406

tarzanstree said:


> Hey thanks man! I appreciate that  I will check them out...then see if I have the fundage!



No problem dude. . . Let me know how you make out?


----------



## Meadow Beaver

Cody you have your own saw shop?


----------



## Greystoke

*My saw shop is awesome!*



MMFaller39 said:


> Cody you have your own saw shop?



You bet I do! My saw shop made all the other fallers jealous in Alaska It is an old army box that was on a deuce and a half, only now it is mounted on a two axle trailer(still has search and rescue decals on it). It has 7 windows, is insulated, and is tough-as-nails! When I was working in AK and using it all the time, it was an awesome timber faller friendly setup. Has a nice big bench for working on chainsaws with all my tools on magnets and racks around it, Big 1 1/2 inch thick solid steel bench for chainsaw bar work etc, saw part rack, drying rack for daily wet clothes, chain grinder, all my pre-made chains with their own racks, multiple bar racks, bench with mounted break and mend for making chains, vise, bar rail grinder, Toyo stove which kept it nice and toasty, and not to forget an air compressor. Unfortunately, I had a little accident with it when I moved back here from AK. Long story...but it came off the back of my Dad's pickup on the freeway at the base of Snoqualmie pass, going about 70 mph :jawdrop: I just watched on as it went beside us down the freeway with the tongue skidding on the pavement throwing sparks, went off in the median, and rolled. That is why I say it is tough-as-nails...cuz it just has a couple of dings that I need to fix and a few other minor interior things that got damaged. It was messy in there cuz every earthly possession that I owned was in it, but, other than a few small broken things, everything made it, including my guns and elk and deer mounts  I just recently acquired the solid steel bench, and it is awesome (although it weighs a lot!) I can't wait to work a bar over on it. Anyhow, as you may have guessed, I LOVE my saw shop, and can't wait to have it all fixed up again. When I get it all done, I will take some pics.


----------



## Meadow Beaver

tarzanstree said:


> You bet I do! My saw shop made all the other fallers jealous in Alaska It is an old army box that was on a deuce and a half, only now it is mounted on a two axle trailer(still has search and rescue decals on it). It has 7 windows, is insulated, and is tough-as-nails! When I was working in AK and using it all the time, it was an awesome timber faller friendly setup. Has a nice big bench for working on chainsaws with all my tools on magnets and racks around it, Big 1 1/2 inch thick solid steel bench for chainsaw bar work etc, saw part rack, drying rack for daily wet clothes, chain grinder, all my pre-made chains with their own racks, multiple bar racks, bench with mounted break and mend for making chains, vise, bar rail grinder, Toyo stove which kept it nice and toasty, and not to forget an air compressor. Unfortunately, I had a little accident with it when I moved back here from AK. Long story...but it came off the back of my Dad's pickup on the freeway at the base of Snoqualmie pass, going about 70 mph :jawdrop: I just watched on as it went beside us down the freeway with the tongue skidding on the pavement throwing sparks, went off in the median, and rolled. That is why I say it is tough-as-nails...cuz it just has a couple of dings that I need to fix and a few other minor interior things that got damaged. It was messy in there cuz every earthly possession that I owned was in it, but, other than a few small broken things, everything made it, including my guns and elk and deer mounts  I just recently acquired the solid steel bench, and it is awesome (although it weighs a lot!) I can't wait to work a bar over on it. Anyhow, as you may have guessed, I LOVE my saw shop, and can't wait to have it all fixed up again. When I get it all done, I will take some pics.



Dude that's awesome!!! You can't beat old Army surplus, especially when it's a portable saw shop. OH YEAH! Now I'm jealous :yourock:


----------



## Greystoke

Okay...I decided against my better judgment to go snap some pics, cuz I got all excited about my saw shop, like a little kid. So, let's just call these the "before I got it restored to its original state" pics.

I forgot about my awesome box on the front tongue that I store most of my tree climbing gear in. You can see some of the damage on the front right corner, under the snow. Also, she is a little rusty from living in Southeast Alaska.










As you can see it is cluttered right now.





Chain grinder, bar and chain racks





Bench with break and mend, vice, bench grinder/brush, toyo stove, lot's of clutter.





Front workbench with lot's of clutter!





Solid Steel bench with lots of clutter on it (except for my tree jacks) Oh yeah, and my awesome craftsman toolbox in the corner that my Dad got me a couple Christmases ago:





Now, I gotta get to work on it so that I can show the "after" pics.


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## Meadow Beaver

Wow brother that's cool, youv'e got everything you need in the perfect amount of space. You've even got what i'm pretty sure is a Pro-Sharp. Saws, parts saws, chain mmmhhhhhh, boy I gotta get to work on a new shop.


----------



## Greystoke

MMFaller39 said:


> You've even got what i'm pretty sure is a Pro-Sharp.



Only chain grinder I have ever owned 

Other than a stupid tecomec round grinder I bought a couple of years ago when I thought I might open my saw shop commercially. I don't count that one though


----------



## Gologit

tarzanstree said:


> Thanks pardner, I appreciate it. I'll be okay; At least my wife has a good job! Besides I have lots of off season things I can be doing (probably should be doing that instead of b'sing on the computer,lol). Finally got my saw shop close by, and I have lots of work to do in there!



LOL...A wife with a good job is almost as necessary to a faller as a good saw.

When these slow times come just figure you're taking early installments on your retirement...while you're still young enough and healthy enough to enjoy it. It works for me. 

Your portable saw shop is a nice set up. Sure beats seeing how much stuff you can cram into a pickup.


----------



## Meadow Beaver

I don't know that I would shell out the clams for a Pro Sharp, I don't really have any reason to, in the near future. Who knows besides I'd prefer a SDM-4


----------



## Greystoke

MMFaller39 said:


> I don't know that I would shell out the clams for a Pro Sharp, I don't really have any reason to, in the near future. Who knows besides I'd prefer a SDM-4



Yeah, they have definitely gone up since '97


----------



## Jacob J.

tarzanstree said:


> Okay...I decided against my better judgment to go snap some pics, cuz I got all excited about my saw shop, like a little kid. So, let's just call these the "before I got it restored to its original state" pics.
> 
> I forgot about my awesome box on the front tongue that I store most of my tree climbing gear in. You can see some of the damage on the front right corner, under the snow. Also, she is a little rusty from living in Southeast Alaska.
> 
> As you can see it is cluttered right now.
> 
> Now, I gotta get to work on it so that I can show the "after" pics.



Wow, that's the coolest, smartest portable set-up I've seen yet. Sure beats a tar-paper shack in the woods. 



Gologit said:


> LOL...A wife with a good job is almost as necessary to a faller as a good saw.
> 
> When these slow times come just figure you're taking early installments on your retirement...while you're still young enough and healthy enough to enjoy it. It works for me.



Yeah, I always figured that when there's work, there's work, and when there isn't, there's other things to do. It's good to see guys aggressive about going after work but it's also good to see guys have other things lined up so they don't have to get all stressed out about layoffs.


----------



## Gologit

Jacob J. said:


> Yeah, I always figured that when there's work, there's work, and when there isn't, there's other things to do. It's good to see guys aggressive about going after work but it's also good to see guys have other things lined up so they don't have to get all stressed out about layoffs.



Yup...I'll chase the work as hard as anybody but sometimes it just isn't there. This business isn't any good for a guy that stresses out over things he can't control.

If you want a steady dependable income, job security, a predictable work environment, a twenty minute commute on pavement, and dry feet...this just ain't the business to be in. :greenchainsaw:


----------



## forestryworks

damn, nice setup tarzanstree


----------



## coastalfaller

Burvol said:


> I started going to work with my Dad when I was about 9. I would ride with the catskinner and run to set chokers, and just ride along. I tried Coppenhagen about that time too. LOL When I was 22-23 I had a small business in fuels redutctions, thinning, and hazards in the winter with an established friend. I would go help out my Dad with some light cutting and buck my ass off, when the timming worked out and one day I never left. He was doing a little gypoing on the side and got a few big jobs. I was the happiest person in the world...finally had steady work with the old man. You see he is technically my step Dad, but that is never ever mentioned. He never had a son either. He's my best friend and hero. I know it sounds cheesy, but he is. What a man. My biological father got killed by an unsound Tammarack, in a nasty, brutal accident scene. Ended up cutting off his arm on the handle bars during impact, serious blunt wounds and his head was caved in over the power head of a brand new 084. It was hard growing up. I was in the first grade when he died. My mom remarried within a year. It was confusing as to who my Dad was. We butted heads and this and that, but now we are super super tight. I call him Dad because he is my Dad and growing up I wanted one so bad, he raised me right, and _is my Dad_, you know? My mom's side is full of loggers too, just grew up around it and started dabbling in it at a young age. I think I mentioned it before, but nothing like giving a lesson to a 12 year old with a 655 Pro with the chainbreak removed, LOL.



I know exactly what your saying. 3 of my kids are technically not mine, but they're mine, if you know what I mean. It's great to hear from that perspective.


----------



## coastalfaller

*Tarzan's set up*

That is an awesome set up, Tarzan! Very impressive! We've got saw shops in our camps, but to have it be mobile like that. I like it!


----------



## Greystoke

Burvol said:


> I started going to work with my Dad when I was about 9. I would ride with the catskinner and run to set chokers, and just ride along. I tried Coppenhagen about that time too. LOL When I was 22-23 I had a small business in fuels redutctions, thinning, and hazards in the winter with an established friend. I would go help out my Dad with some light cutting and buck my ass off, when the timming worked out and one day I never left. He was doing a little gypoing on the side and got a few big jobs. I was the happiest person in the world...finally had steady work with the old man. You see he is technically my step Dad, but that is never ever mentioned. He never had a son either. He's my best friend and hero. I know it sounds cheesy, but he is. What a man. My biological father got killed by an unsound Tammarack, in a nasty, brutal accident scene. Ended up cutting off his arm on the handle bars during impact, serious blunt wounds and his head was caved in over the power head of a brand new 084. It was hard growing up. I was in the first grade when he died. My mom remarried within a year. It was confusing as to who my Dad was. We butted heads and this and that, but now we are super super tight. I call him Dad because he is my Dad and growing up I wanted one so bad, he raised me right, and _is my Dad_, you know? My mom's side is full of loggers too, just grew up around it and started dabbling in it at a young age. I think I mentioned it before, but nothing like giving a lesson to a 12 year old with a 655 Pro with the chainbreak removed, LOL.



My older Brother used to bribe me with Copenhagen all the time...had my first one when I was about 5 lol! Have quit several times and I always have a hankerin for one. Sounds like you and your Dad have a good relationship, and you come from a logging background; That is awesome! Probably why you appreciate those things so much! Later pard,


----------



## Greystoke

Hey guys, thanks for the compliments about my saw shop...I am excited to get it set up again...It's always a good place for me to hang out


----------



## Cedarkerf

That is a cool shop Cody really like the way the pro sharp works but my wallet made me settle for the RazursharpII. You could bring the shop to a GTG for a field shop


----------



## Meadow Beaver

tarzanstree said:


> Hey guys, thanks for the compliments about my saw shop...I am excited to get it set up again...It's always a good place for me to hang out



Looks like you need a little woodstove for your shop.


----------



## Metals406

tarzanstree said:


> Hey guys, thanks for the compliments about my saw shop...I am excited to get it set up again...It's always a good place for me to hang out



Looking forward to more pics of the shop as you work on her. . . Remember, you know a guy up here that can weld a little. 

If you need help in that area.


----------



## Curlycherry1

My old man dragged me to work with him in construction when I was 7. That was just what us kids did when mom worked and dad did not want to pay daycare. Friends joke I was born with a hammer in one hand and a circular saw in the other.

I started running a chainsaw bucking up big old maples on my grandmother's property when I was 9 and by the time I was 11, almost 12 dad turned me lose on a woods and I worked alone dropping the cutting firewood. I am sort of amazed sometimes that I am still here. I cut some pretty big old sugarmaples with no defined lean and only my wits about me. Not all of them went anywhere near where I planned for those first 2-3 years.


----------



## Cedarkerf

Curlycherry1 said:


> My old man dragged me to work with him in construction when I was 7. That was just what us kids did when mom worked and dad did not want to pay daycare. Friends joke I was born with a hammer in one hand and a circular saw in the other.
> 
> I started running a chainsaw bucking up big old maples on my grandmother's property when I was 9 and by the time I was 11, almost 12 dad turned me lose on a woods and I worked alone dropping the cutting firewood. I am sort of amazed sometimes that I am still here. I cut some pretty big old sugarmaples with no defined lean and only my wits about me. Not all of them went anywhere near where I planned for those first 2-3 years.


Remember when I was 15 clearin an acre of big Firs for a family friend getting paid5 dollars an hour(back in the day that was a lot of money)pinching the bar in a beautiful by todays standard 30" Doug fir and choping it out with an ax thank goodnes it was down a hillside nothing to hit. Wow that seemed like it took hours. It was at least50 feet to the first branch and straight. Finished fallin, buckin and limbing so they called their logger friend to come and yard up the logs and had my first lesson in what the lay was. I think pic up sticks came into the conversation. Dumb kid lesson learned. I believe there was also what patty calls some use of inefficient language. Dumb kid.


----------



## Metals406

Cedarkerf said:


> Remember when I was 15 clearin an acre of big Firs for a family friend getting paid5 dollars an hour(back in the day that was a lot of money)pinching the bar in a beautiful by todays standard 30" Doug fir and choping it out with an ax thank goodnes it was down a hillside nothing to hit. Wow that seemed like it took hours. It was at least50 feet to the first branch and straight. Finished fallin, buckin and limbing so they called their logger friend to come and yard up the logs and had my first lesson in what the lay was. I think pic up sticks came into the conversation. Dumb kid lesson learned. I believe there was also what patty calls some use of inefficient language. Dumb kid.



Well. at least you had youth and inexperience for an excuse Brian. . . We had fallers playing pick-up-sticks out of pure laziness (or stupidity?). I mean, why wedge a tree when you can just fall it the way it wants to go??


----------



## Cedarkerf

Metals406 said:


> Well. at least you had youth and inexperience for an excuse Brian. . . We had fallers playing pick-up-sticks out of pure laziness (or stupidity?). I mean, why wedge a tree when you can just fall it the way it wants to go??


Yea I was on top of the world had my brite orange Stihl suspendersmy lee logger jeans my power house 032 and for good measure stagged the pants and red plad flannel shirt. I was a "logger " in my head looking over my handy work I figured I was related to Paul Bunyan. Got my 5 bucks an hour for the whole job anyway and back when they were prototyping dirt that was good money for a teenager


----------



## slowp

Is it heated? I think a fridge might be a good thing too. 
Pardon me, I've been looking for a tiny trailer to go camping in and just spent a lot of time looking at websites.)

Good night all.


----------



## Jacob J.

Good night!


----------



## Gologit

Good morning!


----------



## slowp

Morning. I'm glad I'm not a faller today! Rain on snow makes for heavy bombs out of trees.


----------



## Burvol

Making coffee, looked outside to see a big dump last night....I bet I have 16" of fresh at work. Hopefully there will be no wedging


----------



## slowp

Our snow decreased to what looks like a half inch of slush, here. I will be throwing things in the circus pickup to add weight, it was sliding around a bit yesterday. It seems like we just finished the snow season and here it is again... I do not like to work in it, only play! Have a good day.


----------



## Burvol

slowp said:


> Our snow decreased to what looks like a half inch of slush, here. I will be throwing things in the circus pickup to add weight, it was sliding around a bit yesterday. It seems like we just finished the snow season and here it is again... I do not like to work in it, only play! Have a good day.



Ok, OK....we'll probabaly have more like 8". I'll find out. Leaving now, enjoy your day!


----------



## Greystoke

Glad I'm not a Faller too...Have fun


----------



## Curlycherry1

Metals406 said:


> Well. at least you had youth and inexperience for an excuse Brian. . . We had fallers playing pick-up-sticks out of pure laziness (or stupidity?). I mean, why wedge a tree when you can just fall it the way it wants to go??



I was about 17 working on a clearcut with a cable skidder and there was another cutter there that was a "professional." He commented one day that I was walking past trees to get to drop some and then walking back to get ones I passed by and he said I was wasting footsteps and time and of course money. Never mind I was making almost 2X what he was. Then at lunch one day he starts to get a bit more loud about it and the skidder operator said to him "you shut the blank up because the way he lays things out saves me tons of work and makes me money compared to that jumbled mess you leave behind!" The skidder operator had figured out that if he looked for it could could find a single pull of 4-8 logs, all within about 30' of his skidder and none of the logs for that pull would be buried by other logs. It was a clean pull if he just looked for it and he found every one of them. The other feller just let everything drop where it leaned and he cut the trees in the order he came to them. So he often left lumber trees buried under firewood logs and then more lumber logs on top of that.


----------



## tramp bushler

Can easily see southeast on it !!!!!!! .. Nice looking outfit ..... especially the Toyo stove .......That is the 2nd biggest problem with Southeast , # 1 , Rust . # 2 No place to park stuff till you get time to fix it or use it .... Start chasing the cutting around and stuff gets scattered from one end of The Panhandle to the other ...... The trailer your shop is sitting on looks good and skookum !!!


----------



## Cedarkerf

Wife likes this pic she say its a macho pick. Making an under cut on a cedar that shared a stump with the one in the lower right. used a conventional cut as the owner wanted to put a statue on it so made a flat top. The back cut side was close to ankle level. Last tree of a 5 hour day dropping cedars one was 40+ inches across still sitting on the ground. Wearin the wifes plastic lid for the ear muffs. Thought I was done but guy decided wanted the last one out. Hes a Triad logging equipment sales man so I even got a couple free hats plus 50 bucks an hour out of the deal.

Hey Jesse this was the job that convinced me to get a ported 70cc saw with an RW bar. The camera batteries were low so didnt get much for pics. Gonna try and get in there next summer and make some shingle and shake bolts, he just wanted them down for his view. Hes got about 20 cottan woods he wants me to come and drop. I hate cotton wood yuck.






A big maple I started that day with. Was a hot muggy day.


----------



## Burvol

Cedar can be cut with a slightly smaller saw. It's so soft. I bet you thought about that when you had that tall stump? I knew old boys around here that slaughtered pine with 044's till everyone headed up the big stand of Dougies, they got left in the dust, but could cut that big pine all day long, but most of it was strap cut, so I really don't know what to think other than you definetly made the right choice for a light set up that still kicks.


----------



## Burvol

The logger called me and said don't come to work today. Solid ice. Ok...so here I am in the 5 o'clock hour waiting for Bob and Patty to come out


----------



## ROOTSXROCKS

Calling for 80 degrees here today.


----------



## Cedarkerf

Burvol said:


> Cedar can be cut with a slightly smaller saw. It's so soft. I bet you thought about that when you had that tall stump? I knew old boys around here that slaughtered pine with 044's till everyone headed up the big stand of Dougies, they got left in the dust, but could cut that big pine all day long, but most of it was strap cut, so I really don't know what to think other than you definetly made the right choice for a light set up that still kicks.


Yes Cedar is soft. Spent years cuttin the stuff with 044. Used to drag flutes out of the woods that were left from back in the day and buck into shingle and shake bolts. Amazing how well those flutes would last in the woods I was like a legal Cedar pirate made some great money selling them by the chord. My shirts and pants looked like they were splatterd red from all the cuttin. Skip chain also does great on Cedar as well. We got into some 50 inch fir thats when I decided I wanted an 064/066 that was some serios cutting with my little 044. Enough of my babling Ill let the real pros have some turns.


----------



## Greystoke

Cedarkerf said:


> Wife likes this pic she say its a macho pick. Making an under cut on a cedar that shared a stump with the one in the lower right. used a conventional cut as the owner wanted to put a statue on it so made a flat top. The back cut side was close to ankle level. Last tree of a 5 hour day dropping cedars one was 40+ inches across still sitting on the ground. Wearin the wifes plastic lid for the ear muffs. Thought I was done but guy decided wanted the last one out. Hes a Triad logging equipment sales man so I even got a couple free hats plus 50 bucks an hour out of the deal.
> 
> Hey Jesse this was the job that convinced me to get a ported 70cc saw with an RW bar. The camera batteries were low so didnt get much for pics. Gonna try and get in there next summer and make some shingle and shake bolts, he just wanted them down for his view. Hes got about 20 cottan woods he wants me to come and drop. I hate cotton wood yuck.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A big maple I started that day with. Was a hot muggy day.



Nice pics man! I miss the smell of fresh cut Red Cedar...Dont miss the limbs, or the holding wood though


----------



## Greystoke

Cedarkerf said:


> That is a cool shop Cody really like the way the pro sharp works but my wallet made me settle for the RazursharpII. You could bring the shop to a GTG for a field shop



Need somebody to tow it for me though  My little Yota can't handle that beast!


----------



## Greystoke

Metals406 said:


> Looking forward to more pics of the shop as you work on her. . . Remember, you know a guy up here that can weld a little.
> 
> If you need help in that area.



You bet man!


----------



## Greystoke

slowp said:


> Is it heated? I think a fridge might be a good thing too.
> Pardon me, I've been looking for a tiny trailer to go camping in and just spent a lot of time looking at websites.)
> 
> Good night all.



I have a toyo stove in it for heat, although it is not hooked up right now. Had a wood stove, sink, and fridge in it one time when my Dad and I used it for a huntin camp, a long time ago.


----------



## Cedarkerf

Yea Cody Cedar limbs make for entertainment too many and springy is what Im thinkin your referring to.


----------



## Greystoke

tramp bushler said:


> Can easily see southeast on it !!!!!!! .. Nice looking outfit ..... especially the Toyo stove .......That is the 2nd biggest problem with Southeast , # 1 , Rust . # 2 No place to park stuff till you get time to fix it or use it .... Start chasing the cutting around and stuff gets scattered from one end of The Panhandle to the other ...... The trailer your shop is sitting on looks good and skookum !!!



Southeast and steel are not too good of a mix are they?  Yes that thing is a tank!


----------



## Gologit

tarzanstree said:


> Nice pics man! I miss the smell of fresh cut Red Cedar...Dont miss the limbs, or the holding wood though



LOL...What holding wood? You mean that stuff that pops once and then goes for it?


----------



## Greystoke

Gologit said:


> LOL...What holding wood? You mean that stuff that pops once and then goes for it?



Exactly...It's amazing the difference between red and yellow cedar.


----------



## Burvol

Got a mud hole brewin' down here now. I think I am off for a week, maybe three. I am gathering my gear and loading my pack to go hike up to my favorite Whitefish/Winter Steelhead holes. Cheap entertainment and good excersise.


----------



## Greystoke

Burvol said:


> Got a mud hole brewin' down here now. I think I am off for a week, maybe three. I am gathering my gear and loading my pack to go hike up to my favorite Whitefish/Winter Steelhead holes. Cheap entertainment and good excersise.



Sounds like fun man!


----------



## Cedarkerf

Burvol said:


> Got a mud hole brewin' down here now. I think I am off for a week, maybe three. I am gathering my gear and loading my pack to go hike up to my favorite Whitefish/Winter Steelhead holes. Cheap entertainment and good excersise.



Your just a little to far to make a day trip of it or I would join ya. knock em dead


----------



## Burvol




----------



## Metals406

Burvol said:


>



Catch and release or you get to eat it??

Nice fish dude!


----------



## Gologit

Catch and fillet would be my choice.

Nice fish, Jesse.


----------



## Cedarkerf

Nice


----------



## slowp

Wow. Looks like you know your rivers!  Is that an Oregon fish or a Warshington fish?


----------



## tramp bushler

It,s called filet and release !! That is a nice fish , and I know something about fish !!!!!!!!!!!!WTG .. Looks like a nice place for a predator call and a 223 also !!


----------



## Greystoke

Nice Fish man!


----------



## Burvol




----------



## Greystoke

Burvol said:


>




Nice Red Fir!  Looks like you put a little kicker on that one...Kicking the butt down the hill to miss a stump or something? Nice to be cutting timber like that, this time of the year


----------



## Meadow Beaver

Nice pics Burvol, what are the leg covers for?


----------



## Burvol

Steep drop off below me there, can't see it. Those are two tone saw pants. Nice to cut some good wood, just a lot of RMZ's, and stuff to deal with. 

Just wanted to post a picture and say hello from timber world!


----------



## Meadow Beaver

Don't forget to take pics of you runnin your hopped up 880, when you get it.


----------



## Cedarkerf

Hello back to ya Jesse keep postin the pics for us wish we coulds.


----------



## slowp

Until June, it's all there is.


----------



## tramp bushler

What kind of cutting pants ?? Wheredga getum ?


----------



## coastalfaller

tramp bushler said:


> What kind of cutting pants ?? Wheredga getum ?



If you want good falling pants you should check out the Can Swe summer pants. I believe they have a website, www.canswe.com They have a bunch of pants, but the summer ones are awesome. I wear them in the winter too, with long johns and rain pants. Might be able to order off the website.


----------



## tramp bushler

Thanks Coast .. They have alot of dealers ... I,ll do some research . They are some real good looking pants ..


----------



## coastalfaller

tramp bushler said:


> Thanks Coast .. They have alot of dealers ... I,ll do some research . They are some real good looking pants ..



Yeah, I like them alot. They breath in the summer and with layers in the winter they're great too. I was looking on the website and they've changed them slightly. I had a great deal on them years ago and bought a bunch, but am starting to get to the end of my supply, hopefully the changes are for the better!


----------



## tramp bushler

How much are they ? I couldn,t find a price .... ?


----------



## coastalfaller

tramp bushler said:


> How much are they ? I couldn,t find a price .... ?



In saw shops in BC your looking at around $120-140.


----------



## Burvol

Fishing out my last wedge. Sucker was heavy, about 3 bushel Fir. Yes, my far side is tad unlevel. I reached over and sawed a little more off. It almost looks cut off, but it's the bark or something. Was gonna swing it, probably just should have. Plenty of gravity there. 

Yes, I like the cheap-o light wedge pouch. They are light but blow out. This one was stitched back together with 20lbs. Ande Fishing line I had lying around. Stuff is tough and crappy for anything but repairs, it has too much memory and is stiff. 

Those K&H Red Heads are amazing wedges, don't let anybody tell you any different. They really do have great lifting power like Madsen's claims. I spend the extra dollar on them with out batting an eye and my back says, "Thanks Bro" LOL






Here we go, just about sawed up before I have to wedge some more. You thought my Dad was in danger taking the picture huh? LOL That is the old kicker for launch cut below my face. 

Yes, I have huge ass feet. I like to wear bandanas all year long, as I sweat cause' I work hard. Those are two sets of suspenders, one for my pants and one for my work belt; wedge pouch, radio, tape. People have laughed at my glasses, but they can kiss my ass. I have good vision and a beautiful girl at home to look at! 

I just wanted to explain anything that might get asked, but if I missed something, fire away.


----------



## forestryworks

i agree with the K&H wedges comment - they are tough stuff. take a beating well.

as always, thanks for sharing.


----------



## Meadow Beaver

Yeah I was gonna comment on those clod hoppers, but I thought I'd keep my comments to myself. :angel:


----------



## Burvol

MMFaller39 said:


> Yeah I was gonna comment on those clod hoppers, but I thought I'd keep my comments to myself. :angel:



My my, you are so polite. It's all good, they help me on that ground. Those are the only shoes I have that look so damn clunky. My leather _Corks_ look smaller. Size 15 shoe, 14 wide boot. Don't know what happened. I'm only 6'2".


----------



## Meadow Beaver

Burvol said:


> My my, you are so polite. It's all good, they help me on that ground. Those are the only shoes I have that look so damn clunky. My leather _Corks_ look smaller. Size 15 shoe, 14 wide boot. Don't know what happened. I'm only 6'2".



I know a kid my age who's 6' 3" and wears a 17 1/2


----------



## slowp

Look on the bright side, you're able to walk on top of snow better and nobody will ever call you Smurf feet. :


----------



## Burvol

There he is, my main man, my Dad.


----------



## tramp bushler

I like 1 15" Bannana . 1 12" Hard Haed . and 1 10" soft plastic or smooth double taper .. Used to be able to find these 10" low rise red plastic wedges that felt oily almost . but they were so easy to tap in with a wedge . . Since the 10 " wedge gets 75% of all the work . The 15" Bannana I have I have used for about 4 years . a 12 " will last half a season . but a month old 10" wedge has lived a long and hard life .. My leather wedge pouch is about 16 years old ... at present it carries a 25' Stanley framers tape , a bar wrench and usually 1 Blue Ox 10" wedge ...


----------



## Burvol

tramp bushler said:


> I like 1 15" Bannana . 1 12" Hard Haed . and 1 10" soft plastic or smooth double taper .. Used to be able to find these 10" low rise red plastic wedges that felt oily almost . but they were so easy to tap in with a wedge . . Since the 10 " wedge gets 75% of all the work . The 15" Bannana I have I have used for about 4 years . a 12 " will last half a season . but a month old 10" wedge has lived a long and hard life .. My leather wedge pouch is about 16 years old ... at present it carries a 25' Stanley framers tape , a bar wrench and usually 1 Blue Ox 10" wedge ...



If I don't have a "Bannana Ramma" in my pouch it's in my riggin sack. I also call them "Bacon Savers" LOL. 

Darn good wedges, plus you can set wedges with them a lot easier than maggies. I bought some slightly blemmished units for $7.50, wish I would have bought more than 2 at that price.


----------



## Burvol

There's one in the back of my pouch.


----------



## Cedarkerf

Burvol said:


> There's one in the back of my pouch.


Dont know why East coasters have such a hard time figuring out what a wrap handle is for.


----------



## tramp bushler

Hey Burvol ... What is that ax in the pic with the Bannana in your pouch . The poll looks longer than a 5 Lb Collins style rafting ax . Ya cedar ; My Solo still has the 1/2 wrap on it . Like the saw hate the half a handle bar . Don,t want to pay 150 bucks for a handle bar that should come on the saw ...


----------



## Burvol

Well said Brian. I wonder the same thing. Hammer Logging tells me that alot of folks back there, well....they just don't know. 

I actually believe that is a stick or something there. I run standard single bit 28" handles on a 5 pound collins, and my custom 6 lbs. collins.


----------



## slowp

Burvol said:


> My my, you are so polite. It's all good, they help me on that ground. Those are the only shoes I have that look so damn clunky. My leather _Corks_ look smaller. Size 15 shoe, 14 wide boot. Don't know what happened. I'm only 6'2".



If you buy Kuliens, they make for small looking feet too. But if you buy the lined Crocs, gotta go a size bigger. I've got a pair of those on.

Last week, I was wishing Twinkle had a 3/4 wrap when I wasn't sure which way a blowdown was going to release. Finally. I realized why I was told I should have that by our local guy who falls the really scary trees. Hmmmm. 
I'll see about it when I go on the restock Twinkle stuff shopping trip. 

The ones for a 440 run about $95.00 in the other Chehalis store. That's for a Stihl handle.


----------



## Burvol

slowp said:


> If you buy Kuliens, they make for small looking feet too. But if you buy the lined Crocs, gotta go a size bigger. I've got a pair of those on.
> 
> Last week, I was wishing Twinkle had a 3/4 wrap when I wasn't sure which way a blowdown was going to release. Finally. I realized why I was told I should have that by our local guy who falls the really scary trees. Hmmmm.
> I'll see about it when I go on the restock Twinkle stuff shopping trip.
> 
> The ones for a 440 run about $95.00 in the other Chehalis store. That's for a Stihl handle.



Get a cheapy in Madsen's for around 45 bucks. They also make a traditonal full wrap for that saw too. 

I don't care about my feet. You see me in person they don't stick out, just my winter calks. 

Wrap handles are very nice indeed.


----------



## matt9923

Cedarkerf said:


> Dont know why East coasters have such a hard time figuring out what a wrap handle is for.



Hey, id use it if i had it.


----------



## fmaglin

slowp said:


> If you buy Kuliens, they make for small looking feet too. But if you buy the lined Crocs, gotta go a size bigger. I've got a pair of those on.
> 
> Last week, I was wishing Twinkle had a 3/4 wrap when I wasn't sure which way a blowdown was going to release. Finally. I realized why I was told I should have that by our local guy who falls the really scary trees. Hmmmm.
> I'll see about it when I go on the restock Twinkle stuff shopping trip.
> 
> The ones for a 440 run about $95.00 in the other Chehalis store. That's for a Stihl handle.



Don't know how far you are from Madsens, but they have both the factory 3/4 style wrap or the complete full wrap made by USA handle bars for 39.95 in their catalog. I wish they would offer a full wrap for Husqvarna for that price.


----------



## tramp bushler

I wish USA or Prosafety would make a ful wrap for the 681 Solo /7900 series Dolmar .... I,ve had several USA bars and I prefer them to the Pro Safety bars because there is more room between my hand and the saw .... Enough so that the saw sits lower and is a schoosh easier for limbing ...But mainly just more room .... The Prs Safety are nice . I have a set on my 288 ..


----------



## Cedarkerf

Burvol said:


> Those are two sets of suspenders, one for my pants and one for my work belt; wedge pouch, radio, tape..


Did you use regular bacholer buttons on your belt,I like your idea but my belts seems to thick for the regular ones to work.


----------



## Burvol

I think they are regular, just the ones you'd buy if you had one missing on your jeans. I hammered the piss out of them though, maybe you'd have good results too.


----------



## Cedarkerf

Some seem to hold had to pound em like you said 3 of them seem to hold just have to go getsome more . Thanks mang


----------



## slowp

I think you need to be delicate to install them. I pounded on some and they bent and broke. So, I used more control and less power, and those held.


----------



## Meadow Beaver

I agree, it's a pain if your don't get them on perfectly straight they fall right off.


----------



## Cedarkerf

Never had problem on pants only on the web belt.


----------



## 056 kid

The thing about spenders is, you gotta tuck in ur shirt, AKA, you get trousers FULL of saw chips!

how do you guys get around this?

Getting chips in your trousers during summer time is like working in hell...


----------



## Meadow Beaver

I don't usually wear suspenders now, I like to keep the saw chips out of my arse crack.


----------



## Burvol

Those green pants I tried are awesome for that, no chips at all and it's like wearing silk PJs on the inside.


----------



## Burvol

slowp said:


> I think you need to be delicate to install them. I pounded on some and they bent and broke. So, I used more control and less power, and those held.



You need a very straight blow to get them on straight for sure. I'll have to check what brand I got, but they are stout.


----------



## tramp bushler

*I prefer the plastic ones with the ring shank nail !!!!!*

Timber fallers wear button on suspenders ... Thats all there is to it ... The rest of what you wear is kinda up to you .... If I was lookin for a cutter and someone showed up w/o suspenders they probably wouldn,t be back the next day ..........You can,t get around in the brush with your pan,t down around your ass . the brush ain,t prison and so the punk look is definatly OUT !!!! sawdust down your your pants is just part of life ... I wear polyester t shirts in the summer and don,t get alot of sawdust down my t shirt ...............If you are going to wear a stupid hickory shirt , why not just get a funnel to dump sawdust down your shirt ....


----------



## bitzer

Hey I know what the full wrap is for and I've got one. 3/4 wrap anyway. Ever since I got it I now run my half wrap saws like my 3/4, too.



Everytime I read this thread and see new posted pics, I think to myself, I was born in the wrong part of the country. Man that looks like fun. Great pics Burvol!


----------



## tramp bushler

bitzercreek1 said:


> Hey I know what the full wrap is for and I've got one. 3/4 wrap anyway. Ever since I got it I now run my half wrap saws like my 3/4, too.
> 
> 
> 
> Everytime I read this thread and see new posted pics, I think to myself, I was born in the wrong part of the country. Man that looks like fun. Great pics Burvol!


.

.

. Blitz ; I grew up in Maine ... And I,ve been over the date line .. Ya don,t get much more west of there ... The guys around here cutting , have never fell real timber and so are kind of Okie about how they do it !!! I bet you could drive from where you are to Washington or Oregon in a day and a half ... You could make it to Alaska in 2 days .. Drive to Prince Rupert and take the Alaska Marine Highway to Ketchikan .... I know and have worked with lots of Cheese Heads ..... No offense intended ....... We need a pic of your saw set up ..... :agree2:


----------



## bitzer

tramp bushler said:


> .
> 
> .
> 
> . Blitz ; I grew up in Maine ... And I,ve been over the date line .. Ya don,t get much more west of there ... The guys around here cutting , have never fell real timber and so are kind of Okie about how they do it !!! I bet you could drive from where you are to Washington or Oregon in a day and a half ... You could make it to Alaska in 2 days .. Drive to Prince Rupert and take the Alaska Marine Highway to Ketchikan .... I know and have worked with lots of Cheese Heads ..... No offense intended ....... We need a pic of your saw set up ..... :agree2:



I am married with four kids. Two are in school and another will be next year. I'm only 27, but I'm pretty tied down. My wife always says she would move anywhere with me, but we both have family here and I know she would miss them. I've actually been to Alaska and as far north as the Arctic circle. Kinda funny when you mentioned Tok a couple of weeks ago. I've been there and in the Yukon as well. You ever been to Chicken? Can't remember if thats in Alaska or the Yukon. I drove up there when I was younger. I've never been in Oregon or Washington, but I've been in most every other state out west. I know I've got to get some pics of my saws and some decent trees I've felled lately. I'll have to sneak the camera out of the house. My wife will kill me if she finds out I've got it in the woods with me. ha. ha.


----------



## Curlycherry1

tramp bushler said:


> Timber fallers wear button on suspenders ... Thats all there is to it ... The rest of what you wear is kinda up to you .... If I was lookin for a cutter and someone showed up w/o suspenders they probably wouldn,t be back the next dayshirt.....



Hey what is this, Fashion Talk with Timber Tommy?!!! WTH? Enough with the dress code issues, you folks get back to posting pictures of yourselves dropping big trees! Let's have none of this fashion junk!


----------



## Gologit

Curlycherry1 said:


> Hey what is this, Fashion Talk with Timber Tommy?!!! WTH? Enough with the dress code issues, you folks get back to posting pictures of yourselves dropping big trees! Let's have none of this fashion junk!



Sssshhhhhhhh!!! You'll upset Slowp. She's been on a mission for years to get us to color coordinate our logging clothes. It hasn't been what you'd call a rousing success but she isn't giving up.


----------



## Cedarkerf

056 kid said:


> The thing about spenders is, you gotta tuck in ur shirt, AKA, you get trousers FULL of saw chips!
> 
> how do you guys get around this?
> 
> Getting chips in your trousers during summer time is like working in hell...


I wear em loose sawdust falls right thru and you get ventalation when you move just hang em from your suspenders.


----------



## slowp

And that way, they come off easy if you step in a bee nest. I think one guy must've washed his white boxers with something red, or do boxers come in pink? :greenchainsaw:


----------



## 056 kid

slowp said:


> And that way, they come off easy if you step in a bee nest. I think one guy must've washed his white boxers with something red, or do boxers come in pink? :greenchainsaw:



I have a few pairs of pink boxer shorts, also got some purple shirts. 

Wear that kind of stuff with confidence & you can do well, real wellhahaha


----------



## 056 kid

Cedarkerf said:


> I wear em loose sawdust falls right thru and you get ventalation when you move just hang em from your suspenders.



thats the way I do also when wearing suspenders, the fact is the saw dust tends to accumulate in certain areas that are rather undesirable. . .

I think wearing a tight fitting pant would work better...


----------



## tramp bushler

Don,t wear loose suspenders ,ya goon  wear loose fitting pants .... Ya know how people get smarter when they get older ... Well ya know how old guys wear these BOZO pants ... Theres a reason for that . The chips just fall straight down thru ... See your young and still stylin ......... When I take my spenders off my shoulders ,my trousers hit the floor .. Buck the bottoms of them off about a foot in the air and they are nice and drafty . keep ya cool and collected ya know .......


----------



## slowp

056 kid said:


> thats the way I do also when wearing suspenders, the fact is the saw dust tends to accumulate in certain areas that are rather undesirable. . .
> I think wearing a tight fitting pant would work better...



Gotta love Mel Brooks. 
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----------



## GNAR13

slowp said:


> Gotta love Mel Brooks.
> <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/pc1am3KyYgA&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/pc1am3KyYgA&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>



heck yes.....rep-worthy


----------



## joesawer

056 kid said:


> thats the way I do also when wearing suspenders, the fact is the saw dust tends to accumulate in certain areas that are rather undesirable. . .
> 
> I think wearing a tight fitting pant would work better...



Tight pants cause the pine straw crawl. 
A pine needle will crawl right up your pants leg and poke you in the most inappropriate place if your pants are to tight.
Don't ask me how I know.


----------



## tramp bushler

Slowp ; thats just --------------- Yuk ..


----------



## madhatte

Spent a melancholy night drinkin' beer with a fellow in Alpine in OR (Westside, not Eastside) in summer 1997. 

His uncle Bob had recently been killed in a skidder rollover accident, and his employer (out of Bellfountain, as I recall?) barely paid to bury the dude who died on their dime. We ad-libbed a quiet ceremony late that night when my woods partner and I joined him in leaving memorial hats at his Uncle's tinfoil gravesite. I haven't returned there yet, but I will. 

I never met his uncle Bob, but I have known a couple dozen of him over the years. You have too. They are the guys who know How Things Work, and who have Been There. When they retire, their home phone rings off the hook 24/7 for years because their knowledge is still in demand. 

If this story smells familiar, drop me a PM. You know who you are.


----------



## Industry

tramp bushler said:


> .
> 
> . Blitz ; I grew up in Maine ... And I,ve been over the date line .. Ya don,t get much more west of there ...



What area of Maine?


----------



## tramp bushler

East Corith / Levant ..... Central Maine ..


----------



## RandyMac

My Grandpa was from Witipitlock (spelling?) near Reed's Plantation, I'm second generation Californian. The stories I heard about Maine...I should go see it.


----------



## tramp bushler

... Well , I don,t have a good answer for that .. I havn,t been back there in a long time !!!!! .. King crab is better than Lobster ....
Lobster is better than Dungeness and Tanner/ opeilio crab ... But not King Crab ..


----------



## Meadow Beaver

RandyMac said:


> My Grandpa was from Witipitlock (spelling?) near Reed's Plantation, I'm second generation Californian. The stories I heard about Maine...I should go see it.



Lots of pine trees and cheap lobsters.


----------



## Greystoke

*Keep the thread goin*

Just thought I would finish posting on here as I started in the "suspender" thread. These pics are from '05 Prince of Wales Island, Southeast Alaska. Facin up a Hemlock:







Good shot of my Kuliens:











Snipe, and boring the heart:


----------



## Burvol

Killer!


----------



## matt9923

Burvol said:


> Killer!



:agree2:


----------



## Cedarkerf

More great pics Cody thanks for posting them


----------



## slowp

Yes. More please. Where is the old growth Devil's Club? That looks like the stuff here.


----------



## 056 kid

Boy dosent that just look like a hellofa alot more fun than pre calculus & English 201? . . .


----------



## hammerlogging

one unit, we're now almost out to the point/ridge in distance. strips run bottom to top. 2.5 more strips on that point and we get to turn the point into a far more favored COVE. caled off from too much rain overthere today.





lunchtime. lil' stick fire for company.






red will walk about any bridge to go top. He was topping for me that day, hes about 35 feet above the creek there


----------



## hammerlogging

falling poplar uphill, had to make sure it didn't slide back down and bust gas line- super open face (on the butt, added hambolt for super open face, with stumpshot. intended to stay on stump, oh well, no damage.




trying to pop that butt down the hill sidehill poplar

lots of butt rot in this area hence the high stumps, we generally still would have to butt off 2-3 feet where they'd clean up


----------



## hammerlogging

Red faces.






and another.


----------



## Burvol

Thanks!


----------



## bitzer

Good pics Hammer! I was gunna say that poplar stump above the gas line looked like the hingewood was more of a break than a pull. A little dusty too. I see stumps like that a lot when I'm felling dead stuff. Sometimes there is no pull at all, just break off. 

Do the tops just get left in the unit? I'm sure there is a lot of wood in some of them. Especially the reds. Just curious about what goes on.


----------



## tramp bushler

Pretty awesome !!!


----------



## Greystoke

Nice!


----------



## hammerlogging

aerial units = low utilization and highly selctive, but, if its the only way......

no top wood, no low grade. You still capture an overall high % of the volume, and value of the units. Like I said, if itws the only way.





All other units, full utilization, not full tree though. We may add a processor for full tree extraction of smaller stems, still, the brush will be left below the roads...... for now at least.


----------



## tramp bushler

Does Red have a dent on the top of his tin mat ??????????????? These are very great pics ..... I made a cape for my hard hat system for the winter .. Cut a 12"x14" square out of an old nylon safety vest .cut 2 slits in what became the top side 2" down from the top edge put the 2 back suspension anchors thru the slits .... When I put it on I make sure it is on the outside of everything.... . The snow goes right down my back instead of stopping along the way at my neck and back .... I use them in Southeast when I,m PreCommmercial Tree thinning .. Too hot for bushlin in the summer ,.., Sure is alot more comfortable by quiting time and all thru the day .....
Dented in tin hats are flat dangerous ................. I hope when I get a new camera I can use it with this puter ...


----------



## bitzer

Thanks hammer. Just interested to know. I kind of thought that on a heli job. I'm not one of those worrying too much about waste. I just know what can be left over as far as tops etc... Everything gets used eventually anyway. If not by us, then the bugs, worms, and weather will take care of it. Just feeding the system.


----------



## slowp

More nice pictures. Can I ask why it is helicopter? No roads? Looks like some possible yarder setups but I can't see enough for sure. Just curious.


----------



## Curlycherry1

slowp said:


> Can I ask why it is helicopter? No roads? Looks like some possible yarder setups but I can't see enough for sure. Just curious.



I would guess having worked back East that the density is not high enough for a yarder and too steep for a skidder. Trees grow big back East, but hardwood foresst are typically not as dense as softwood forests. I have been in managed areas where the trees were 50+' apart. That is my SWAG.


----------



## joesawer

Great pics Hammer and Cody!
The picture of faceing up the hemlock is one of the best reasons for using a humbolt. When you cut it up and the face cut just falls out it is so much easier, especially on bigger trees on steep ground.


----------



## joesawer

Hammer, that first pic looks like a spoil pile for a strip mine. I have heard that they are logging those in West Virginia. That is steep enough, the angle of repose with benches.


----------



## hammerlogging

slowp said:


> More nice pictures. Can I ask why it is helicopter? No roads? Looks like some possible yarder setups but I can't see enough for sure. Just curious.



Labor. especially the capable, motivated, good to have around kind. We wish we were yarding it.

JoeSawyer- no, its an honest to god mountain, maybe it'll get to stay that way..... You're looking at a convex awful slope with flatlying beds, geologically speaking. But, I've cut some killer poplar off of old spoil- 50 y.o. spoil. Not much seems to grow on the big MTR sites. maybe one day.


----------



## bullbuck

just curious hammer,what does it pay per thousand deliverd to the mill for stuff of that quality?i have only dealt with softwoods


----------



## fmaglin

hammerlogging said:


> aerial units = low utilization and highly selctive, but, if its the only way......
> 
> no top wood, no low grade. You still capture an overall high % of the volume, and value of the units. Like I said, if itws the only way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All other units, full utilization, not full tree though. We may add a processor for full tree extraction of smaller stems, still, the brush will be left below the roads...... for now at least.


Nice pics Hammer!


----------



## Burvol

On the East side for a bit!!! Pine country. Not much of a picture. 2 pines haning over a road on a little cliff, threw em over a big buckskin on the bank. Be careful on stuff like that. Trucks too. Yes, that's my boot. Break time. I took a break today. Wedging. 






Must be Monday...two saws in the strip. Yes, I cut myself out today. If I have to have a cut out every two weeks, I'm happy. It happens, but I take pride in hardly needing it. I once cut with a guy that I used to cut out 4 times a day!


----------



## Greystoke

Burvol said:


> Must be Monday...two saws in the strip. Yes, I cut myself out today. If I have to have a cut out every two weeks, I'm happy. It happens, but I take pride in hardly needing it. I once cut with a guy that I used to cut out 4 times a day!



Looked like a glorious day...even if you had to beat wedges. "ole familiar sound of a chain that wont turn round" I did not carry spare bars just in case my tip blew! Funny story about cutting guys out. I was an 18 year old green horn, Fallin for Columbia in Alaska...Lyman Anchorage, was roomed with a guy that was at least twice my age(never asked) anyhow, he had considerable experience, and was a hell of a faller. I had to go cut him out twice one day within about a two hour window, and on the second trip over I said in as serious of voice as I could: "Well Mike...you'll learn one of these days".  He did not laugh...I sure thought it was funny though; especially after all the guff I got from the whole crew for bein a young pup!


----------



## forestryworks

i need a husky


----------



## 056 kid

Burvol said:


> On the East side for a bit!!! Pine country. Not much of a picture. 2 pines haning over a road on a little cliff, threw em over a big buckskin on the bank. Be careful on stuff like that. Trucks too. Yes, that's my boot. Break time. I took a break today. Wedging.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Must be Monday...two saws in the strip. Yes, I cut myself out today. If I have to have a cut out every two weeks, I'm happy. It happens, but I take pride in hardly needing it. I once cut with a guy that I used to cut out 4 times a day!



I see you are close to getting your arches full of saw dust & clay dust.

Time for a rebuild...

Pretty land


----------



## Burvol

tarzanstree said:


> Looked like a glorious day...even if you had to beat wedges. "ole familiar sound of a chain that wont turn round" I did not carry spare bars just in case my tip blew! Funny story about cutting guys out. I was an 18 year old green horn, Fallin for Columbia in Alaska...Lyman Anchorage, was roomed with a guy that was at least twice my age(never asked) anyhow, he had considerable experience, and was a hell of a faller. I had to go cut him out twice one day within about a two hour window, and on the second trip over I said in as serious of voice as I could: "Well Mike...you'll learn one of these days".  He did not laugh...I sure thought it was funny though; especially after all the guff I got from the whole crew for bein a young pup!




Well....you sure looked the part. Pup that is. Atleast you'll stay young looking longer than most. 

That is funny Cody, that sure took a set to say that! I've known a few Mikes that were tough loggers, LOL


----------



## Burvol

forestryworks said:


> i need a husky



Yes you do. Everyone does!


----------



## Meadow Beaver

I've been thinking about getting an 576xp (non-auto tune). I've seen a couple of vids of a sling'r 576, I think that will be my next new saw, I'm just addicted to building my own from the ground up.


----------



## 056 kid

StumpStomper said:


> I've been thinking about getting an 576xp (non-auto tune). I've seen a couple of vids of a sling'r 576, I think that will be my next new saw, I'm just addicted to building my own from the ground up.



Why dont you go make some $$ with all thoes saws that you have ported? you just want the 576 cause you think its cool. Mind that would be OK of you where a real log cutter. . .


----------



## Meadow Beaver

056 kid said:


> Why dont you go make some $$ with all thoes saws that you have ported? you just want the 576 cause you think its cool. Mind that would be OK of you where a real log cutter. . .



 Well excuse me for my cousin going out of business. You sure like to rub people the wrong way.


----------



## 056 kid

StumpStomper said:


> Well excuse me for my cousin going out of business. You sure like to rub people the wrong way.



NOOOO SIR buddy boy, I know where you stand. Callin me 5.6 year old kid. . . . I could teach you a thing or two. . .

I aint here to rub anybody BTW...


----------



## Burvol

Nothing too important, just checking in with the bunch tonight. This is actually a nasty little hill (the low side of my stumps are about 5-6" high & rocky as hell) that dives right off below me. I like cutting really nice bar width Pine all day. It's perfect wood to keep you really engaged and get a lot of wood rolling. Throw in some hammers, and it's great. No biggies this week, but some really nice wood. I'm headed back to the West Side to cut Fir next week. Coming over East and cutting Pine for a few weeks is fun.


----------



## Metals406

Are they skidding tree length, or you having to limb and buck?


----------



## Burvol

Metals406 said:


> Are they skidding tree length, or you having to limb and buck?



Full manufacture.


----------



## slowp

Hmmmph. I was in a blizzard all day yesterday thinking about the Donner Party. Looks like you have been in a banana belt.


----------



## bitzer

Good pics Burvol! It looks like fun. Bar length is best. No effn around, three cuts (most of the time). Man, I NEED to get into production. I'm sick of screwin around with dead and ugly wood most of the time.


----------



## Metals406

Burvol said:


> Full manufacture.



That's not bad with Ponderosa -- them big limbs are an easy target -- unlike DF.

I'll be cutting some FW in a nice fir patch soon -- big, dead pumpkins. . . I'll take some video.


----------



## forestryworks

Metals406 said:


> I'll be cutting some FW in a nice fir patch soon -- big, dead pumpkins. . . I'll take some video.


----------



## Burvol

Metals406 said:


> That's not bad with Ponderosa -- them big limbs are an easy target -- unlike DF.
> 
> I'll be cutting some FW in a nice fir patch soon -- big, dead pumpkins. . . I'll take some video.



Pine limbs are like rubber. They bend, fold, then snap (loaded up, bucking logs). They can tend to droop down at you (like white fir) when you walk up your log. They can just sit there and hang above you in other trees, just waiting to come down. The rule of thumb is never trust pine hangers, ever. They will give a little, give a little, then finally come down. They are are very, very heavy too.
When Dougie imbs are loaded up you can just touch them and they pop really hard, and Douglas Fir limbs tend to fall to the ground out of other trees well too. I've been knocked unconcious from a fir limb, 14ft. long and as big as a tennis ball where it was riped out of the tree, I measured it. Don't ask me how I lived. I thank God for that. 

Be safe Nate, and enjoy your juice wood!


----------



## Greystoke

Burvol said:


> Pine limbs are like rubber. They bend, fold, then snap (loaded up, bucking logs). They can tend to droop down at you (like white fir) when you walk up your log. They can just sit there and hang above you in other trees, just waiting to come down. The rule of thumb is never trust pine hangers, ever. They will give a little, give a little, then finally come down. They are are very, very heavy too.
> When Dougie imbs are loaded up you can just touch them and they pop really hard, and Douglas Fir limbs tend to fall to the ground out of other trees well too.
> Be safe Nate, and enjoy your juice wood!



Nice Pics man. I like cuttin pine, but you are right about the limbs...they like to throw a lot of dirt and rocks on the bark on steeper ground too, especially in decomposed granite.



> I've been knocked unconcious from a fir limb, 14ft. long and as big as a tennis ball where it was riped out of the tree, I measured it. Don't ask me how I lived. I thank God for that.



Sometimes that is all you can do is thank god, for it can always be worse. Just one of those jobs where a guy has to accept the fact that he is probably gonna get hurt, just hopefully not too bad...glad it was not too bad pard!


----------



## Metals406

Burvol said:


> Pine limbs are like rubber. They bend, fold, then snap (loaded up, bucking logs). They can tend to droop down at you (like white fir) when you walk up your log. They can just sit there and hang above you in other trees, just waiting to come down. The rule of thumb is never trust pine hangers, ever. They will give a little, give a little, then finally come down. They are are very, very heavy too.
> When Dougie imbs are loaded up you can just touch them and they pop really hard, and Douglas Fir limbs tend to fall to the ground out of other trees well too. I've been knocked unconcious from a fir limb, 14ft. long and as big as a tennis ball where it was riped out of the tree, I measured it. Don't ask me how I lived. I thank God for that.
> 
> Be safe Nate, and enjoy your juice wood!



Dang, you named off all the bad things about Ponderosa. LOL

I was looking more on the bright side I guess. 

I'm fixing to shoot you a PM so stick around.


----------



## Dayto

Props Burvol , your always on the ball and got nothing but good info.

Cheers.


----------



## redprospector

Metals406 said:


> Dang, you named off all the bad things about Ponderosa. LOL
> 
> I was looking more on the bright side I guess.
> 
> I'm fixing to shoot you a PM so stick around.



Haha. You're just a glass is half full kinda guy, aren't you?

Andy


----------



## Metals406

redprospector said:


> Haha. You're just a glass is half full kinda guy, aren't you?
> 
> Andy



That I am Andy. . . I have my negative moments, but I always try and see the good in every situation.


----------



## Burvol

Dayto said:


> Props Burvol , your always on the ball and got nothing but good info.
> 
> Cheers.



Thank you! Hope you have a good season on the saw bro!


----------



## Burvol

Some Pine, nothing too killer, but decent wood. 






Another nice stick. A tad limby though. Not too bad. 






Self portrait, LOL. 

You can't see it (blurry right there, not sure why), but I took a page out of Cody's play book. I made a sweet, smaller saw patch out of old calk boot leather. The part from around the calf, pre-folded. Used some dense, thin carpet and epoxy. Worked slick! Thanks Cody.


----------



## Greystoke

Burvol said:


> Some Pine, nothing too killer, but decent wood.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another nice stick. A tad limby though. Not too bad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Self portrait, LOL.
> 
> You can't see it (blurry right there, not sure why), but I took a page out of Cody's play book. I made a sweet, smaller saw patch out of old calk boot leather. The part from around the calf, pre-folded. Used some dense, thin carpet and epoxy. Worked slick! Thanks Cody.




Glad you like the saw patch! You keep posting these pics and it is makin me jealous! You should have seen the pathetic pine trees that I cut down yesterday...only took a few minutes, then spent most of the day piling brush and firewood...so unglorious


----------



## Burvol

tarzanstree said:


> Glad you like the saw patch! You keep posting these pics and it is makin me jealous! You should have seen the pathetic pine trees that I cut down yesterday...only took a few minutes, then spent most of the day piling brush and firewood...so unglorious



We're gonna cut logs together someday. I have that feeling. When the time is right. I look forward to it. 

Glad your picking up a little work. Hope spring comes your way soon. That and April 15th always seems to kick up biz for my buddy with a tree service. He says a lot of folks wait to have work done until they know how much they owe (the ones that don't call back, LOL) or get back.


----------



## GASoline71

Hey Burvy ol' buddy... How's the hand holdin' out?

Gary


----------



## Burvol

GASoline71 said:


> Hey Burvy ol' buddy... How's the hand holdin' out?
> 
> Gary



All good, prolly as good as it gets. You still cuttin' a little bit Mang? 
How's the back treating you? 
Hope to see you at the GTG, _I am 100% going to make it this year!_


----------



## GASoline71

I haven't been in wood for some time mang... back is doin' okay. I got bigger fish to fry.

I had a scare recently that prompted my "friends" thread. Docs thought I had rectal cancer. I was shocked... yet pissed at the same time. I had a battery of tests, and more MRI's and was finally diagnosed with a benign cyst. Still has to come out... but it ain't cancer.

Anyhoo... it's been a long 3 months... but, I'm gettin' back in to it. I almost unloaded ALL of my saws. I only sold the junkers. I still have the big hogs. Someday I'll get back in the wood... but for now, I'm on the sidelines.

Didn't mean to mess up your thread with my personal BS. I don't usually share this kind of stuff. But a lot of cats have been askin' where I've been... 

Well... here I am... 

I'm gonna try to make the GTG... when and where is it?

Gary


----------



## Burvol

Your always welcome to come on in and tramp around how ever you please. Timber fallers are allowed to do that  

I heard maybe at Booker's place, but he hasn't been around for a while. I'm not sure if he's feeling well or not. I heard of a few other possible locations in Oregon. I think the first week of May is when people are talking.


----------



## Metals406

GASoline71 said:


> I haven't been in wood for some time mang... back is doin' okay. I got bigger fish to fry.
> 
> I had a scare recently that prompted my "friends" thread. Docs thought I had rectal cancer. I was shocked... yet pissed at the same time. I had a battery of tests, and more MRI's and was finally diagnosed with a benign cyst. Still has to come out... but it ain't cancer.
> 
> Anyhoo... it's been a long 3 months... but, I'm gettin' back in to it. I almost unloaded ALL of my saws. I only sold the junkers. I still have the big hogs. Someday I'll get back in the wood... but for now, I'm on the sidelines.
> 
> Didn't mean to mess up your thread with my personal BS. I don't usually share this kind of stuff. But a lot of cats have been askin' where I've been...
> 
> Well... here I am...
> 
> I'm gonna try to make the GTG... when and where is it?
> 
> Gary



That's great news Gary!!


----------



## GASoline71

Burvol said:


> Your always welcome to come on in and tramp around how ever you please. Timber fallers are allowed to do that
> 
> I heard maybe at Booker's place, but he hasn't been around for a while. I'm not sure if he's feeling well or not. I heard of a few other possible locations in Oregon. *I think the first week of May is when people are talking*.



Fist week of May... I'll be huntin' Merriams in Eastern WA. 

Gary


----------



## Greystoke

Metals406 said:


> That's great news Gary!!



:agree2:


----------



## Greystoke

Burvol said:


> We're gonna cut logs together someday. I have that feeling. When the time is right. I look forward to it.



That would be great my friend; I look forward to it too  Work is starting to pick up for me, so that is good. I won a free radio ad that will be running all day Monday, so I am sure that will help too.


----------



## Arrowhead

GASoline71 said:


> Fist week of May... I'll be huntin' Merriams in Eastern WA.
> 
> Gary



Good luck! One day I will get out West for a Merriams. For now the Easterns are keeping me busy. April 12th here.


----------



## slowp

Metals406 said:


> That's great news Gary!!



Yes. As one heathen to another, Thank Whatever Or Whoever You Believe In!!!


----------



## ropensaddle

GASoline71 said:


> Fist week of May... I'll be huntin' Merriams in Eastern WA.
> 
> Gary



Lol come on down here in April our easterns are a good challenge I will be trotting ten miles a day through the hills a dales lol, no sleep and two beards well three, if you count the one that grows on my face then.


PS: Burvol I am not a logger but am a feller lol..


----------



## ropensaddle

Arrowhead said:


> Good luck! One day I will get out West for a Merriams. For now the Easterns are keeping me busy. April 12th here.



he he he he 10 here day after me birthday lol.


----------



## Metals406

tarzanstree said:


> That would be great my friend; I look forward to it too  Work is starting to pick up for me, so that is good. I won a free radio ad that will be running all day Monday, so I am sure that will help too.



Glad to hear you're getting busy bro! 

Don't forget to call me when you get some fatties to remove.


----------



## Greystoke

Metals406 said:


> Don't forget to call me when you get some fatties to remove.



You bet Man


----------



## ropensaddle

I used to think all you pnw's were a bunch of dern :censored: I have come to find many of you tolerable lol from hard headed to other hard headed


----------



## GASoline71

Arrowhead said:


> Good luck! One day I will get out West for a Merriams. For now the Easterns are keeping me busy. April 12th here.



We've got Merriam's, Rio's, and Easterns here in Washington State. You can get a Washington Slam in one year, since you can harvest 3 birds in a season.

Lot of travelling though... as the WDFW has dispersed the birds in the far corners of the state. 

Gary


----------



## Jacob J.

GASoline71 said:


> Anyhoo... it's been a long 3 months... but, I'm gettin' back in to it. I almost unloaded ALL of my saws. I only sold the junkers. I still have the big hogs. Someday I'll get back in the wood... but for now, I'm on the sidelines.
> 
> 
> Gary



Boy, that's a relief...

I'm glad things turned out ok. Once you're up and running again I'll expect that things around your place will be hoppin'...


----------



## GASoline71

Yep... that they will Jacob. I am mainly hangin' here in the loggin' forum... just too many new guys in the saw forum with the same 3 friggin' question.

If I need anything about saws... I know who my go to guys are. 

Gary


----------



## Gologit

GASoline71 said:


> I had a scare recently that prompted my "friends" thread. Docs thought I had rectal cancer. I was shocked... yet pissed at the same time. I had a battery of tests, and more MRI's and was finally diagnosed with a benign cyst. Still has to come out... but it ain't cancer.
> 
> 
> 
> Gary



That's good news. Are you going for laser surgery or will they just use the old fashioned hand tool...the one that looks like an apple corer?


----------



## slowp

Gologit said:


> That's good news. Are you going for laser surgery or will they just use the old fashioned hand tool...the one that looks like an apple corer?



So, back to the topic before some of us get woozy. I found limbing the pines in CA to be a nice change from our hemlock. uttahere:


----------



## Burvol

*056 Kid*

Since this thread got hijacked by Gary, and he and 056 Kid don't get along, I'm gonna say something real quick. 

I talked to 056 on the phone for over an hour last night, and I have to say I really, really like the guy. He has zero shame or secrects in discussing his life and situations, and what he is doing, done, ect. A very honest, open person. He's friggin' 22 years old, give him a ####ing break. He's making big life changes and sacrifices right now. He's been a real faller on timber sales, what 95% of the AS crowd have not done. I can see his point on wanting to strangle the wannabe's and armchair loggers. They have no idea what the life is, or what the physical grind is. Everyone seems to disregard everything he has to say, even good advice at times. He is an intelligent person that I enjoyed meeting. I'm sure he'd give you a hard time if you tried to take him down as well. The kid is a decent sized dude and works out, takes care of himself. I hope he finds some timber to cut this summer and still finishes college. Hats off to you!


----------



## Gologit

Burvol said:


> Since this thread got hijacked by Gary, and he and 056 Kid don't get along, I'm gonna say something real quick.
> 
> I talked to 056 on the phone for over an hour last night, and I have to say I really, really like the guy. He has zero shame or secrects in discussing his life and situations, and what he is doing, done, ect. A very honest, open person. He's friggin' 22 years old, give him a ####ing break. He's making big life changes and sacrifices right now. He's been a real faller on timber sales, what 95% of the AS crowd have not done. I can see his point on wanting to strangle the wannabe's and armchair loggers. They have no idea what the life is, or what the physical grind is. Everyone seems to disregard everything he has to say, even good advice at times. He is an intelligent person that I enjoyed meeting. I'm sure he'd give you a hard time if you tried to take him down as well. The kid is a decent sized dude and works out, takes care of himself. I hope he finds some timber to cut this summer and still finishes college. Hats off to you!




Good post. O56 Kid isn't a heck of a lot different than a lot of us when we were that age. He's basically a good guy, just gets a little short tempered, loud, mouthy, and opinionated at times. We all do that...some more than others. 

When O56 gets a little too rowdy I just tell him to go sit in the crummy for awhile. Sometimes it even works. In the meantime we'll help him out when we can, smack him around when he needs it, and watch him grow.

And, as a side note, about him and Gary not getting along? They're more alike than they both think. I'm talking about the good parts here. If the two of them ever sat down over a couple of beers I think they'd both be surprised at how well they got along.

Okay...back on topic. Hell, I don't remember the topic.


----------



## RandyMac

*hijack in progress*

Greetings from Sultan Washington, we survived the trip, it took three extra hours due to the weather. We left the coast with a monster squall pounding us, it snowed until we were past Grants Pass, the thunderstorms in south Washington were intense.
I'm headed to downtown Sultan to buy a flannel shirt, cold up here. I might be seeing Ric, and maybe make off with some yellow painted chainsaws.


----------



## Hddnis

Just for the record here, I always figured that if Gary and 056 kid ever got together the rest of us would be digging in our pockets for bail money, for both of them.

...and I've never met either of them.




Mr. HE


----------



## hammerlogging

Burvol said:


> Since this thread got hijacked by Gary, and he and 056 Kid don't get along, I'm gonna say something real quick.
> 
> I talked to 056 on the phone for over an hour last night, and I have to say I really, really like the guy. He has zero shame or secrects in discussing his life and situations, and what he is doing, done, ect. A very honest, open person. He's friggin' 22 years old, give him a ####ing break. He's making big life changes and sacrifices right now. He's been a real faller on timber sales, what 95% of the AS crowd have not done. I can see his point on wanting to strangle the wannabe's and armchair loggers. They have no idea what the life is, or what the physical grind is. Everyone seems to disregard everything he has to say, even good advice at times. He is an intelligent person that I enjoyed meeting. I'm sure he'd give you a hard time if you tried to take him down as well. The kid is a decent sized dude and works out, takes care of himself. I hope he finds some timber to cut this summer and still finishes college. Hats off to you!



Burv, you hit the nail on the head, and I'm glad you said it. 056 is way ahead of the game, esp. in this region, and has shown motivation to advance and diversify technique, and he has proven me wrong more than once! Attitude? I agree, its mostly warranted harassment and a few years back I was a bit more hot mouthed with my opinions too.

Hey 056, this dont mean I'm going to put up with any bull####!!!!


----------



## Burvol

hammerlogging said:


> Burv, you hit the nail on the head, and I'm glad you said it. 056 is way ahead of the game, esp. in this region, and has shown motivation to advance and diversify technique, and he has proven me wrong more than once! Attitude? I agree, its mostly warranted harassment and a few years back I was a bit more hot mouthed with my opinions too.
> 
> Hey 056, this dont mean I'm going to put up with any bull####!!!!



Glad to see your gonna give him a chance Joe. I was gonna call you this weekend. I know his heart is in it, that cannot be taught or aquired. It just is what it is. I was joking with him telling him about the next time your having a rough Monday, think about all the armchair loggers that would gouge someone's eye out to come try to cut. They might die or f up a lot of wood in an hour, but they'd be in heaven, LOL . Have fun with your new man! I told him you were much more than just a timber faller.


----------



## Burvol

*Back to regularly schedualed programing*







Hard to tell what's going on here. The front of my stump is about 6" off the ground, a steep little spot here. falling this Fir up over a rock ledge. It'a about 30 ft. tall. I saw it up, the stash my saw behind a big rock pile and finish it with some wedges. That way if it comes back at me, my saw is safe. I had a good, safe, rock ledge to get in behind. Nothing to major. More like a pain in the ass for one marginal tree way off from my strip if you ask me. The whole unit comes in the sales, not just the cream and easy ground. lol

10" cheapy orange for splitting (10" K&H are down right wicked for opening up your kerf) and a 12" K&H. 
My custom 7lbs. ELZ/RMZ collins axe that needs my orange handle paint and red and white tape like my others. This is the axe you take into a ELZ/RMZ when you know your gonna be doing some substantial knockin'


----------



## ropensaddle

Dern I always forget cam lol I fell three large dead oaks today and ground 25 stumps fot the golf course and did not take a pic lol One was around 45 incher too.


----------



## Cedarkerf

*Welcome to Wershington*



RandyMac said:


> Greetings from Sultan Washington, we survived the trip, it took three extra hours due to the weather. We left the coast with a monster squall pounding us, it snowed until we were past Grants Pass, the thunderstorms in south Washington were intense.
> I'm headed to downtown Sultan to buy a flannel shirt, cold up here. I might be seeing Ric, and maybe make off with some yellow painted chainsaws.



Sultan must have grown since I lived out that direction if its big enough to have a downtown.


----------



## joesawer

Here is one from a few years back. It was some tight ground.


----------



## tramp bushler

Gologit said:


> That's good news. Are you going for laser surgery or will they just use the old fashioned hand tool...the one that looks like an apple corer?


.

.
. Logit : thats just ruff man .thats rough ..


----------



## GASoline71

Well Burvy ol' buddy... To be honest with you. I never really had any ill will towards the 056kid until the BS he pulled that everybody was kissing my ass in my "friends" thread in this forum.

He's a little brash at times, and his young age really shines through. I gave him some guff early on and he took it in stride. Trust me... I was smarter than everybody else at one time too.  Took my licks, got my ass kicked a couple of times, but learned from the process. I guess what I see in the kid is a lot of me when I was his age.

I was a punk. Tried and true. Loud mouthed, and full of piss and vinegar. But with age comes smarts. Smarts you get from the school of hard knocks. And also learnin' when to just shut your yap. Which I still have a hard time doin'. When you're young and invincible, you got the world by the balls... then one day a choker cable snaps and knocks you on your ass... out cold. Only thing saved your hide is the fact that at least you had the brains to put your hardhat on. But see... you learn. You learn where NOT to be when the turn comes in, when the tree commits, when the yarder struggles, or when the bull buck is pissed off at you... 

He asked me about 2 months ago if I could get him a dual port cover for his 066 from Wood's Loggin' Supply. They usually have them on the shelf and at a decent price. Well... I was goin through the whole cancer BS, and some other crap, and I told him I'd get around to it. But it would be awhile since I wasn't in the wood anymore, and I don't hit Wood's like I used to. So about a week goes by, and he bugs me about it again (persistent litte cuss  ). I told him the same story. I was too proud to tell him I was prolly out of the game for good, and that I just don't go out there anymore. Well, he bein' just as hard headed as myself... rode me again about it. 

Lookin' back, I wish I could have got that cover for him. I might even make a trip out there next week just for that stinkin' cover if he still wants it. It's an hour and a half round trip for me. If I could mail it with a half rack of beer... I'd prolly do it. Anyways... I was moreso upset because he took a thread that I made for the guys on here that are my pals, and turned it into a garbage thread. Meh... I guess it's just words on a forum, no more than what I'm typin' here.

So... kid... if ya wanna BS... PM me for my phone number. Anybody that has an approval from a cat like Burvol, has to be a good cat. Snot nosed punk or not...  Just remember I was one too... aww hells bells... still am at times. Just takes me a little longer to get #### done. 

Gary


----------



## hammerlogging

this was my only feasible escape route from that oak butt you can see. 

Sidehill felling, a tight little swag.


----------



## Burvol

hammerlogging said:


> this was my only feasible escape route from that oak butt you can see.
> 
> Sidehill felling, a tight little swag.



Wrong color of saw for this forum buddy!!! lol :greenchainsaw: Just teasing ya bro. Looks dangerous.


----------



## Arrowhead

GASoline71 said:


> We've got Merriam's, Rio's, and Easterns here in Washington State. You can get a Washington Slam in one year, since you can harvest 3 birds in a season.
> 
> Lot of travelling though... as the WDFW has dispersed the birds in the far corners of the state.
> 
> Gary



Thats cool you have all three. Its a long drive for the Osceola though. The slam is on my list of things to do. I hunt everything our state has to offer. Spring turkey is about tops for me. I have been doing it now for 9 years and have been lucky to get 2 or 3 longbeards each year. Our spring limit is 3 also. TIP: A full strut decoy is worth its weight in gold. I have Primos B Mobile, I put a real tail, beard and re-airbrushed the head. The Toms come running in to it looking to fight. Works great when they are henned up. Good Luck


----------



## Burvol

Arrowhead said:


> Thats cool you have all three. Its a long drive for the Osceola though. The slam is on my list of things to do. I hunt everything our state has to offer. Spring turkey is about tops for me. I have been doing it now for 9 years and have been lucky to get 2 or 3 longbeards each year. Our spring limit is 3 also. TIP: A full strut decoy is worth its weight in gold. I have Primos B Mobile, I put a real tail, beard and re-airbrushed the head. The Toms come running in to it looking to fight. Works great when they are henned up. Good Luck



I heard gobbling above my strip last week at daybreak before I started my saw. Not sure if legal, but some folks start corn piles, hunt them, then turn them into salt licks for bucks after the season is over.


----------



## Arrowhead

Burvol said:


> I heard gobbling above my strip last week at daybreak before I started my saw. Not sure if legal, but some folks start corn piles, hunt them, then turn them into salt licks for bucks after the season is over.



Lucky you! I love hearing the turkeys gobble. Honestly, my favorite part of hunting them is sitting against a tree in the morning, watching the sun start to rise with a hot thermos of coffee and hearing them gobble a 100 yards away. Makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up. If they did not gobble, hunting them wouldn't mean as much to me. I never heard an elk bugle..... but I imagine its the same type of feeling.


----------



## 056 kid

thanks for the kind words fellas. Im a pretty good dude in real life, well I try. .


----------



## hammerlogging

Burvol said:


> Wrong color of saw for this forum buddy!!! lol :greenchainsaw: Just teasing ya bro. Looks dangerous.



its a wonder I can even get the trees on the ground with those orange and white POS saws eh?

Sorry about your good lady and may peace of mind and a good recovery come to her. Bummer, and unfair.

Danger, well..... sometimes.


----------



## Hddnis

056 kid said:


> thanks for the kind words fellas. Im a pretty good dude in real life, well I try. .




Good!


Give it a try online too.:greenchainsaw:




Mr. HE


----------



## Burvol

Standing at my 3rd 16 which ended up being 32". Got 3 16's, 2 32's, and a short chunk for pulp. Fairly nice can of corn. about 3.5 bushel. Had to high stump on the rock's sake. Can't tell, but to the right is steep and a RMZ. You'd be just beggin' to pull that bad boy down the hill if you cut it from that side. I faced it from the downhill side though, didn't want to waste anymore wood to get my powerhead in.


----------



## mile9socounty

Well that sure it a prudy little peck pole you got laying on the ground there. Nice looking chunk of wood man.  Keep the good pics rolling.


----------



## Greystoke

*Tall Pine*

Nice stick! Believe it or not the tallest Pine I ever cut was in Idaho. Just north east of Lewiston, elevation around a thousand feet, right down by Potlach creek; Yellow Pine, with a few White Pine was averaging about 3' dbh, 5 32's, with a short top log! I would have never dreamed of cutting timber that tall in Idaho...wish I would have taken some pics 

Keep em comin Pard!


----------



## Burvol

tarzanstree said:


> Nice stick! Believe it or not the tallest Pine I ever cut was in Idaho. Just north east of Lewiston, elevation around a thousand feet, right down by Potlach creek; Yellow Pine, with a few White Pine was averaging about 3' dbh, 5 32's, with a short top log! I would have never dreamed of cutting timber that tall in Idaho...wish I would have taken some pics
> 
> Keep em comin Pard!



I cut a 5 32 Pine once too. It was only 3ft on the butt, but tall and straight. I know, sometimes we get tricked when we get in our strip.


----------



## Burvol

4 32's (2 16's and 3 32's, same diff) in this one, 4 + bushel. Raised back cut 4" inches, bladed her right in the slot, not a sliver pulled. I'm a sucker for the raised backcut in big pine, I think it's the way to do it. Period. Everyone is different. I have just noticed it works quite well for pull and control. Big Pine can get squirrly on ya...quick. It's a very heavy wood. The limbs are subtantually heavy as well. They move the stick more than a heavy limbed fir. 






A 16 and 3 32's. Nice stick too.


----------



## Burvol

There's red fir in this unit like this all day long. I just wanted some pine pics. Don't have too many, LOL.


----------



## coastalfaller

*Some old pics*

Here's some pics of one of my bullbuckers. The pics were taken in Cleagh Cr on Vancouver Island. Not bad spruce!


----------



## coastalfaller

*Some more pics for you, Burvol!*

Some of one of my guys on the Mid Coast of BC


----------



## Burvol

Mr. Coastal, that is rediculous. How did he reach through? Cut boxes on the stump?


----------



## mdavlee

Wow those are some big trees.


----------



## Arrowhead

Cool pics!


----------



## Metals406

coastalfaller said:


> Here's some pics of one of my bullbuckers. The pics were taken in Cleagh Cr on Vancouver Island. Not bad spruce!





coastalfaller said:


> Some of one of my guys on the Mid Coast of BC



Those trees are retarded big!! I would give 4 ribs, a kidney, 4 fingers, and my left butt cheek to fall just _one_ like that.


----------



## hammerlogging

Coastal......beautiful!

Burv, heck of a handy couple sticks too!


----------



## joesawer

Great pictures. Those are some huge trees. I really like the hinges, that is some nice work.
Good pics of proper use of cork boots as well, Lol.

How long ago where those pics taken. All the recent pictures I have seen from BC the fallers looked like they are wearing ghost buster uniforms.


----------



## joesawer

tarzanstree said:


> Nice stick! Believe it or not the tallest Pine I ever cut was in Idaho. Just north east of Lewiston, elevation around a thousand feet, right down by Potlach creek; Yellow Pine, with a few White Pine was averaging about 3' dbh, 5 32's, with a short top log! I would have never dreamed of cutting timber that tall in Idaho...wish I would have taken some pics
> 
> Keep em comin Pard!





I climbed a yellow pine in Blue Jay CA that I popped the top out of it at 175 feet. They loaded 4 log trucks with that one tree. 
I always thought that was a big tree, but it is a baby compared to some of the pictures that have been posted here.


----------



## coastalfaller

Burvol said:


> Mr. Coastal, that is rediculous. How did he reach through? Cut boxes on the stump?



A very long bar!


----------



## coastalfaller

Metals406 said:


> Those trees are retarded big!! I would give 4 ribs, a kidney, 4 fingers, and my left butt cheek to fall just _one_ like that.



LOL. Yeah, they're fun alright! But you know the best sized wood for production is like what Burvol is in, nice tall 3ft on the stump wood. They go down nice and quick and ALOT less bucking!


----------



## coastalfaller

joesawer said:


> Great pictures. Those are some huge trees. I really like the hinges, that is some nice work.
> Good pics of proper use of cork boots as well, Lol.
> 
> How long ago where those pics taken. All the recent pictures I have seen from BC the fallers looked like they are wearing ghost buster uniforms.



Ha, ha. Yeah, here in BC these days we're regulated pretty heavily. You're not allowed out of the crummy w/o your PPE, including the hi vis shirt or vest. The pics from Cleagh were taken late 70's and the others were taken in 2006.


----------



## Burvol

coastalfaller said:


> LOL. Yeah, they're fun alright! But you know the best sized wood for production is like what Burvol is in, nice tall 3ft on the stump wood. They go down nice and quick and ALOT less bucking!



Ah Jordan, come on....It was 42" LOLOLOL Your stealing the show here  . Joking ya bit  

I agree. That is the wood that adds up. But it drinks the gas. Quick.


----------



## Metals406

coastalfaller said:


> LOL. Yeah, they're fun alright! But you know the best sized wood for production is like what Burvol is in, nice tall 3ft on the stump wood. They go down nice and quick and ALOT less bucking!



Don't get me wrong, Burv's bar length wood is rib and butt cheek worthy too. 

Hell, right now I'd settle for dropping a 5 acre stand of Lodgepole! LOL


----------



## bitzer

Those are some awesome pics Coastal! Just crazy ridiculous wood!


----------



## Metals406

Burvol said:


> Ah Jordan, come on....It was 42" LOLOLOL Your stealing the show here  . Joking ya bit
> 
> I agree. That is the wood that adds up. But it drinks the gas. Quick.



Hey Burvol, I had a question on that pine? Who's setting your preferred length specs for that stuff?

I see you took a 16 out'a that butt, and then a 32? Is that a diameter thing or weight?

I know the mills here set the preferred lengths, but it'd half to be pretty big butt log to warrant a 16. I'll be damned if I can remember scale from 10 years ago when I was in the game, but I believe DF peelers were 33', and saw logs escape my memory.


----------



## coastalfaller

Burvol said:


> Ah Jordan, come on....It was 42" LOLOLOL Your stealing the show here  . Joking ya bit
> 
> I agree. That is the wood that adds up. But it drinks the gas. Quick.



Sorry, didn't mean to steal your thunder!! Just kidding, you've got some great pics on here. That big stuff uses the gas too though, couple tanks per undercut, back cut, etc. And then we get into the bucking! Not fun on steep ground! If I remember right, it took him a few hours to put the undercut in that big spruce. Almost killed him getting the blocks out of it!


----------



## Meadow Beaver

Wow I'm :drool: with timber envy, quite awesome how big the trees are.


----------



## tramp bushler

coastalfaller said:


> Sorry, didn't mean to steal your thunder!! Just kidding, you've got some great pics on here. That big stuff uses the gas too though, couple tanks per undercut, back cut, etc. And then we get into the bucking! Not fun on steep ground! If I remember right, it took him a few hours to put the undercut in that big spruce. Almost killed him getting the blocks out of it!


.

..I was wondering what he had to do to get the face out ..... Still I,m pretty much speachless .. The biggest spruce I,ve fell was less than half the diameter of that one .......... This must be what being a small dog feels like when a big dog shows up ..:jawdrop:......

.

. Absolutly awesome !!!!coastal !!!!! Even the sweep butted red cedar he is standing on to buck is big !!!!! Good thing he had a 90 available .. Did they weld a special bar for that tree ??


----------



## tramp bushler

I,m up in the arctic now . It,s great to see all the pic !!!!


----------



## 056 kid

Damn.

I wanna do that.


Happy Green day, hope all you fellas are having fun cleaning the rust out the pipes like I am!!


----------



## Gologit

coastalfaller said:


> Sorry, didn't mean to steal your thunder!! Just kidding, you've got some great pics on here. That big stuff uses the gas too though, couple tanks per undercut, back cut, etc. And then we get into the bucking! Not fun on steep ground! If I remember right, it took him a few hours to put the undercut in that big spruce. Almost killed him getting the blocks out of it!



Fine pictures. That guy on the springboard must have been real catty. I'm on my way to work...after those pictures I'll feel like I'm trimming rose bushes by comparison.


----------



## Greystoke

Burvol said:


> 4 32's (2 16's and 3 32's, same diff) in this one, 4 + bushel. Raised back cut 4" inches, bladed her right in the slot, not a sliver pulled. I'm a sucker for the raised backcut in big pine, I think it's the way to do it. Period. Everyone is different. I have just noticed it works quite well for pull and control. Big Pine can get squirrly on ya...quick. It's a very heavy wood. The limbs are subtantually heavy as well. They move the stick more than a heavy limbed fir.
> 
> 
> 
> A 16 and 3 32's. Nice stick too.



Looked like another glorious day cuttin nice pine!


----------



## Greystoke

coastalfaller said:


> Here's some pics of one of my bullbuckers. The pics were taken in Cleagh Cr on Vancouver Island. Not bad spruce!



Dang, those are some impressive Spruce! I have only ever seen stumps that big. Danged old guys always had to beat me too them I would love to know how many bushel that biggest one had in it. Thanks for posting man!


----------



## Greystoke

coastalfaller said:


> LOL. Yeah, they're fun alright! But you know the best sized wood for production is like what Burvol is in, nice tall 3ft on the stump wood. They go down nice and quick and ALOT less bucking!



Perfect bushelin wood


----------



## RandyMac

Great pics Coastal!!!
Big trees can be a bunch of work, but you haven't lived until you have muscled 100 pound chunks out of a facecut, while perched on a springboard. I did my best work with the 36" to 48" range, good thing there was a lot of it.


----------



## Curlycherry1

So how is the butt log of a 17' diam spruce moved? One cannot exactly yank that up the hill with a skyline can they? Enquiring minds want to know.


----------



## coastalfaller

tramp bushler said:


> .
> 
> ..I was wondering what he had to do to get the face out ..... Still I,m pretty much speachless .. The biggest spruce I,ve fell was less than half the diameter of that one .......... This must be what being a small dog feels like when a big dog shows up ..:jawdrop:......
> 
> .
> 
> . Absolutly awesome !!!!coastal !!!!! Even the sweep butted red cedar he is standing on to buck is big !!!!! Good thing he had a 90 available .. Did they weld a special bar for that tree ??



Yeah, it's a pretty phenomenal tree all right! I'm not sure what size bar he had for that one. In the shop I've got an 8ft bar hanging on the wall, still in the cardboard, only was ever used once!


----------



## coastalfaller

Gologit said:


> Fine pictures. That guy on the springboard must have been real catty. I'm on my way to work...after those pictures I'll feel like I'm trimming rose bushes by comparison.



LOL! Yeah, he is pretty catty. Been slowed lately though by shoulder and knee problems.


----------



## coastalfaller

tarzanstree said:


> Dang, those are some impressive Spruce! I have only ever seen stumps that big. _Danged old guys always had to beat me too them:_cry: I would love to know how many bushel that biggest one had in it. Thanks for posting man!



I hear you on that one!


----------



## coastalfaller

RandyMac said:


> Great pics Coastal!!!
> Big trees can be a bunch of work, but you haven't lived until you have muscled 100 pound chunks out of a facecut, while perched on a springboard. I did my best work with the 36" to 48" range, good thing there was a lot of it.



Absolutely! There's nothing quite like the feeling when one of them hits the ground!


----------



## coastalfaller

Curlycherry1 said:


> So how is the butt log of a 17' diam spruce moved? One cannot exactly yank that up the hill with a skyline can they? Enquiring minds want to know.



I'm not sure what system they were using there. Loading would have been another issue too! I've seen an 18ft spruce loaded on a low bed. They used to drill in and stick some dynamite in too split them too.


----------



## Burvol

*Kiss my Ass East Coasties, LOL*


----------



## Burvol

49-50 on the butt, saved out 3 32's, and a nice 26. Had 4 32's but I powerbucked it in the bottom of this nasty little hill. I am quiet pleased how it went into the lay. There was an RMZ that it could have went into had it broke off. I left 4 inches of wood on my side, gutted the heart, and raised the backcut about 6-7 inches. I had a 15" double taper and 8 redheads in it. I was starting to sweat the wind change I had. I did not have my jacks in my truck yesterday. I worked it up and waited for the wind to change. I was BSing with the side rode when it tipped and went down, it was cool. I"m gonna buck it today. This was almost after hours yesterday and I'll have my long bar today. I'm guessing around 8 bushel save out. This thing is a pipe. It almost appears to get bigger as I walk it out. The pictures are disapointing.  Thing is way bigger walking it.


----------



## slowp

*OK Fallers, I'm Curious*

I have been doing unit layout. The way we cram a bit more volume into a skidder unit is to run it up a steep slope *not quite a tree length*, and plan that "the fallers can launch it down to the skid trail." I've not heard any whining about that. How hard is that for you guys to do? The diameter runs from 10 to 16 inches and they are thinning units. West WA doug and hemlock, probably average 120 feet tall to the tippy top.


----------



## tramp bushler

Unless it,s in a draw , valley or canyon where the wind constanly blows up the hill , the trees will lean down hill ...... Put a air mail stamp on the butt and send them on their way .... No Prob !!!


----------



## hammerlogging

SlowP we do it all the time, even a little further up the hill than that since the shovel/jammer can reach 35 ft up the hill, as long as they can reach the end of the merchantable wood where its toped off. 

But, when we have skid roads, we will cut strips upp to the road, after thats logged out we will stem the road (tops over the road, fast shovelling), then we will highswipe, which is just what you have marked, this too is shovelled, then the road gets shut down: bladed, waterbarred, etc., the it is overed with tops as we cut strips up to the next contour road, perhaps 400' above the last road.


----------



## hammerlogging

BURV, nice wood dude.

We have been merchandising the tallest poplars ever off the heli unit from last winter, 85' to 10" or 12" tops.


----------



## Gologit

Burvol said:


> 49-50 on the butt, saved out 3 32's, and a nice 26. Had 4 32's but I powerbucked it in the bottom of this nasty little hill. I am quiet pleased how it went into the lay. There was an RMZ that it could have went into had it broke off. I left 4 inches of wood on my side, gutted the heart, and raised the backcut about 6-7 inches. I had a 15" double taper and 8 redheads in it. I was starting to sweat the wind change I had. I did not have my jacks in my truck yesterday. I worked it up and waited for the wind to change. I was BSing with the side rode when it tipped and went down, it was cool. I"m gonna buck it today. This was almost after hours yesterday and I'll have my long bar today. I'm guessing around 8 bushel save out. This thing is a pipe. It almost appears to get bigger as I walk it out. The pictures are disapointing.  Thing is way bigger walking it.



That's what it's about...saving out the wood. A lot of the guys that want to come out here and fall our timber would do well to remember that. Any donkey can put a tree on the ground but to save out a punkin like that, and do it time after time week in and week out at a production pace separates the fallers from the thrashers. Good job.


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> I have been doing unit layout. The way we cram a bit more volume into a skidder unit is to run it up a steep slope *not quite a tree length*, and plan that "the fallers can launch it down to the skid trail." I've not heard any whining about that. How hard is that for you guys to do? The diameter runs from 10 to 16 inches and they are thinning units. West WA doug and hemlock, probably average 120 feet tall to the tippy top.



10 to 16 inches? Shouldn't be a problem.


----------



## bitzer

Awesome stick Burv! Cameras never do justice to being there.


----------



## slowp

Gologit said:


> 10 to 16 inches? Shouldn't be a problem.



I figured not, I have never heard any whining about it. But, I was pondering it while wandering around looking for skidder friendly ground and routes. 

I also came to the conclusion, and this will be whined about, that there was no room for a landing at the bottom of the 1.9 acre chunk so logs will need to be skidded on down the road to the next landing. There's some kind of botany thing in the way. 

Back to you, Burvol! 

Nice tree and nice taunting.


----------



## Curlycherry1

Ok so I gotta ask what is a pumpkin and what does it mean when you talk about bushels?


----------



## 056 kid

Indeed a nice piece of wood.


----------



## Gologit

Curlycherry1 said:


> Ok so I gotta ask what is a pumpkin and what does it mean when you talk about bushels?



A pumpkin, commonly pronounced "punkin", is a big tree. Big by our standards.

A bushel is a unit of measurement. Some fallers get paid by the board foot. If you're in big timber, and you hustle, you can make good money that way.


----------



## forestryworks

Curlycherry1 said:


> Ok so I gotta ask what is a pumpkin and what does it mean when you talk about bushels?



Like Bob said a bushel is a unit of measurement, expressed in board feet. *I believe one bushel contains 1,000bf.* Someone will tell me whether i'm right or wrong.

and a board foot is 144cubic inches. usually 12'' square by 1'' thick.


----------



## Metals406

*1 US bushel = 14.933473 board feet*


*board foot (bd ft, fbm, or BF)*
a unit of volume used for measuring lumber. One board foot is the volume of a one-foot length of a "standard board" twelve inches wide by one inch thick. Thus a board foot equals 144 cubic inches, or 1/12 of a cubic foot, or approximately 2.360 liters. The number of board feet is easily computed from the dimensions of the stack, no matter how wide or thick the boards are. For example, a stack of two-by-fours 4 ft high, 4 ft wide, and 8 ft long contains 4 x 4 x 8 = 128 cubic feet, equivalent to 128 x 12 = 1536 board feet. The symbol fbm is an abbreviation for "foot, board measure."

*bushel (bu) [1]*
a traditional unit of volume used for measuring dry commodities such as grains and fruits. In the United States, the customary bushel is based on an old British unit known as the Winchester bushel. This unit dates to the early fourteenth century, at least: King Edward I defined the bushel to be 8 gallons in 1303. The form used in the U.S. was legalized by Parliament in 1696. One U.S. or Winchester bushel equals 4 pecks or 32 (dry) quarts; this is a volume of 2150.42 cubic inches or about 1.2445 cubic feet, and represents the volume of a cylindrical container 18.5 inches (47.0 cm) in diameter and 8 inches (20.3 cm) deep. The U.S. bushel holds about 35.239 07 liters. Traditionally, there is also a heaped bushel, which is 27.8% (sometimes 25%) larger than a regular bushel. The regular bushel is also called struck measure to indicate that the bushels have been struck, or leveled, rather then heaped. The origin of the word "bushel" is unclear; some scholars believe it derives from an ancient Celtic unit, but most believe it is of medieval French origin, probably a slang name for a wooden crate (the French word for wood is bois).

*bushel (bu) [2]*
a unit of volume in the British Imperial system (see gallon [3]) equal to 8 Imperial gallons, or 2219.36 cubic inches (1.2844 cubic feet). The Imperial bushel holds about 36.369 liters.

*bushel (bu) [3]*
a commercial unit of weight for grains and other bulk commodities. Agricultural commodities such as wheat are traditionally sold by the bushel, but because commodities tend to settle and compact in shipping, disputes over the volume delivered arise easily. To avoid these disputes, traders in a market or a country generally agree on a standard weight for one bushel of the commodity. Often this standard weight is set by law. Although the bill of lading still shows "bushels," it is really the weight rather than the volume that is sold and guaranteed. For example, in the United States a bushel of wheat equals 60 pounds (27.216 kg), a bushel of barley 48 pounds (21.772 kg), a bushel of oats 32 pounds (14.515 kg), and a bushel of rye 56 pounds (25.401 kg). A more complete table is included.


----------



## Metals406

I tried to wrap my head around Burv's tree there. With 3-32's and a 26, that finished him at 122'. With a 49" butt, and being a gun barrel, you can assume close to a 1/2" taper every 4'. If he finished that 26 with a 10" top. . . I figure that's approx 150 ft² (ish). That's over one cord of actual wood, no air. 

That's a freaking pumkin!


----------



## fmaglin

Metals406 said:


> *1 US bushel = 14.933473 board feet*
> 
> 
> *board foot (bd ft, fbm, or BF)*
> a unit of volume used for measuring lumber. One board foot is the volume of a one-foot length of a "standard board" twelve inches wide by one inch thick. Thus a board foot equals 144 cubic inches, or 1/12 of a cubic foot, or approximately 2.360 liters. The number of board feet is easily computed from the dimensions of the stack, no matter how wide or thick the boards are. For example, a stack of two-by-fours 4 ft high, 4 ft wide, and 8 ft long contains 4 x 4 x 8 = 128 cubic feet, equivalent to 128 x 12 = 1536 board feet. The symbol fbm is an abbreviation for "foot, board measure."
> 
> *bushel (bu) [1]*
> a traditional unit of volume used for measuring dry commodities such as grains and fruits. In the United States, the customary bushel is based on an old British unit known as the Winchester bushel. This unit dates to the early fourteenth century, at least: King Edward I defined the bushel to be 8 gallons in 1303. The form used in the U.S. was legalized by Parliament in 1696. One U.S. or Winchester bushel equals 4 pecks or 32 (dry) quarts; this is a volume of 2150.42 cubic inches or about 1.2445 cubic feet, and represents the volume of a cylindrical container 18.5 inches (47.0 cm) in diameter and 8 inches (20.3 cm) deep. The U.S. bushel holds about 35.239 07 liters. Traditionally, there is also a heaped bushel, which is 27.8% (sometimes 25%) larger than a regular bushel. The regular bushel is also called struck measure to indicate that the bushels have been struck, or leveled, rather then heaped. The origin of the word "bushel" is unclear; some scholars believe it derives from an ancient Celtic unit, but most believe it is of medieval French origin, probably a slang name for a wooden crate (the French word for wood is bois).
> 
> *bushel (bu) [2]*
> a unit of volume in the British Imperial system (see gallon [3]) equal to 8 Imperial gallons, or 2219.36 cubic inches (1.2844 cubic feet). The Imperial bushel holds about 36.369 liters.
> 
> *bushel (bu) [3]*
> a commercial unit of weight for grains and other bulk commodities. Agricultural commodities such as wheat are traditionally sold by the bushel, but because commodities tend to settle and compact in shipping, disputes over the volume delivered arise easily. To avoid these disputes, traders in a market or a country generally agree on a standard weight for one bushel of the commodity. Often this standard weight is set by law. Although the bill of lading still shows "bushels," it is really the weight rather than the volume that is sold and guaranteed. For example, in the United States a bushel of wheat equals 60 pounds (27.216 kg), a bushel of barley 48 pounds (21.772 kg), a bushel of oats 32 pounds (14.515 kg), and a bushel of rye 56 pounds (25.401 kg). A more complete table is included.


I thought that a bushel was 1000 board ft Scribner.:monkey:


----------



## slowp

Let's not even mention cubic feet.:bang:


----------



## GASoline71

I had _Cubic Feet _once... man that was painful...











Gary


----------



## madhatte

Cubic feet are only useful for converting BF to Cords. 

BF/12=CF

CF/128=Cords


----------



## Metals406

fmaglin said:


> I thought that a bushel was 1000 board ft Scribner.:monkey:



Could be, on the Scribner Scale. . . I pulled those 3 definitions from Google. There's enough scales, measures, and weights out there to confuse Einstein. 

I'm looking right now at all three scales to see what it says about mbf to bushels.

Either way, that tree was just a hair under a thousand. . . Pretty dang nice.


----------



## Metals406

GASoline71 said:


> I had _Cubic Feet _once... man that was painful...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gary



:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


:yourock:


----------



## Metals406

So far, I haven't been able to find any reference to 1 mbf equaling ? bushel? I did find some other stuff though.
*
BUSHELING:* Method of payment in which the faller is paid for how many trees he falls and bucks. Generally the number of trees is converted into thousands of bored feet and a specific amount paid for each thousand board feet.

". . . Generally, one thousand board feet (1MBF) can range from 183-220 FT². . ."


----------



## Curlycherry1

Metals406 said:


> So far, I haven't been able to find any reference to 1 mbf equaling ? bushel? I did find some other stuff though.
> *
> BUSHELING:* Method of payment in which the faller is paid for how many trees he falls and bucks. Generally the number of trees is converted into thousands of bored feet and a specific amount paid for each thousand board feet.
> 
> ". . . Generally, one thousand board feet (1MBF) can range from 183-220 FT². . ."



Oh nooooooooo! Don't let the Merriam-Webster police find out we are not using terms in the dictionary! There are members of this forum that get their undies all twisted into a knot if everyone does not follow the accepted W-M definitions of words! They will throw us in jail for sure!

I could see where a bushel would be a thousand board feet and I think I even heard that term used back East many decades ago. Board foot I understand and when I buy lumber a "lift" is usually about 1000 bd ft, and is usually what is on a standard pallet/bundle of lumber 42" wide, 8' long, and 36" tall.

What is messing with my head is the new metric measurements. People selling/buying lumber by the cubic meter, and boards thicknesses and widths listed in centimeters. I am not sure I like that one bit!

I can't imagine cutting a tripple set of 32's out of a single log. Biggest thing I ever cut was some white pine that yielded 4-5 16's and that was it.


----------



## Greystoke

*Burvol is in all the glory!*

Glad to see your in some nice wood pard! I am still jealous though...you dawg


I always thought "bushel" was timber faller lingo, and in my vocabulary can mean many different things...for example when I am in a hurry and I have to do a sink full of dishes before I go some where I "bushel" them out...guess in my mind it means "bustin ass", hurrying? When I am busheling in timber falling, I am bustin ass to get as much wood down while also doing as good and clean of a job as possible. When I refer to a tree like: "How many bushel are in it", it means how many thousand board feet are in it.


----------



## Burvol

tarzanstree said:


> Glad to see your in some nice wood pard! I am still jealous though...you dawg
> 
> 
> I always thought "bushel" was timber faller lingo, and in my vocabulary can mean many different things...for example when I am in a hurry and I have to do a sink full of dishes before I go some where I "bushel" them out...guess in my mind it means "bustin ass", hurrying? When I am busheling in timber falling, I am bustin ass to get as much wood down while also doing as good and clean of a job as possible. When I refer to a tree like: "How many bushel are in it", it means how many thousand board feet are in it.



Bushel dishes, you crack me up buddy! 

I taped it this morning and it was 48.5 on the consistant end at the butt. 49.5 if I really tried the long way...I was thumbing. It was actually 7.5 bushel. I would have been fired, LOL! I said 8.


----------



## Burvol

slowp said:


> I have been doing unit layout. The way we cram a bit more volume into a skidder unit is to run it up a steep slope *not quite a tree length*, and plan that "the fallers can launch it down to the skid trail." I've not heard any whining about that. How hard is that for you guys to do? The diameter runs from 10 to 16 inches and they are thinning units. West WA doug and hemlock, probably average 120 feet tall to the tippy top.



That kind of wood is cake. You back it up, wedge, then launch if it leans hard up hill. If possible, the dutchman is sweet going down hill. Gravity useually prevails, but not always. 

That's not timber falling. That's tree tripping.


----------



## Burvol

hammerlogging said:


> SlowP we do it all the time, even a little further up the hill than that since the shovel/jammer can reach 35 ft up the hill, as long as they can reach the end of the merchantable wood where its toped off.
> 
> But, when we have skid roads, we will cut strips upp to the road, after thats logged out we will stem the road (tops over the road, fast shovelling), then we will highswipe, which is just what you have marked, this too is shovelled, then the road gets shut down: bladed, waterbarred, etc., the it is overed with tops as we cut strips up to the next contour road, perhaps 400' above the last road.



Joe, you know I did not direct the title of the pic at you! I was being a turd.


----------



## floyd

Yup, but it generally pays the same...correct?


----------



## Burvol

Cut 3 pine today that had 4 32's, the last one had the last log at 12". Only 40" on the butt. Nicest pine patch I have ever cut. There is tons of Red Fir in there the same size and bigger. All day long. I am intrigued with some pine pics, I'm mostly a west side Hem/Fir faller.


----------



## Metals406

Burvol said:


> Cut 3 pine today that had 4 32's, the last one had the last log at 12". Only 40" on the butt. Nicest pine patch I have ever cut. There is tons of Red Fir in there the same size and bigger. All day long. I am intrigued with some pine pics, I'm mostly a west side Hem/Fir faller.



Jesse. . . Hook a brother up with how you scaled that tree to come up with 7,500 board feet? I'd like to understand how you do it while at work?

Like I said, I'm trying to wrap my head around it so I can file the info away in the old gray matter.


----------



## Burvol

floyd said:


> Yup, but it generally pays the same...correct?



I was joking. An Indain truck driver told me that, and he made me laugh. You probably are making better money than me at the moment and not having to work as hard aside from truckin' up and down that nasty ground, so it's a toss up. Falling on steep ground is serious. There is very limited room to get out, no matter how big or little of the timber. It's inheirently dangerous.


----------



## Burvol

Metals406 said:


> Jesse. . . Hook a brother up with how you scaled that tree to come up with 7,500 board feet? I'd like to understand how you do it while at work?
> 
> Like I said, I'm trying to wrap my head around it so I can file the info away in the old gray matter.



Ask Cody, he's got all the bushels memorized by heart, I garauntee it 
I have to look in a book for those numbers. The bushlel for 36 and 40 is all I really pay attention to. There is gross and net scale. Deducts and other things factor what the log will ultimately pay, based on scale and that number. You measure the little end of the log and reference it the book. Guys that bushel for a living know all of the numbers by heart, it's how they make their money. I am hourly, but I definetly don't slouch at work. I want to be known as a good, productive, guy.


----------



## Greystoke

Burvol said:


> Ask Cody, he's got all the bushels memorized by heart, I garauntee it
> 
> I have to look in a book for those numbers. The bushlel for 36 and 40 is all I really pay attention to. There is gross and net scale. Deducts and other things factor what the log will ultimately pay, based on scale and that number. You measure the little end of the log and reference it the book. Guys that bushel for a living know all of the numbers by heart, it's how they make their money. I am hourly, but I definetly don't slouch at work. I want to be known as a good, productive, guy.



You give me too much credit pard...I do know that a 16' 6" log is 20 bd. ft.!

When I was bushelin, we always got paid by gross scale; Long butts, sweep, forks, it was all included. We got paid for snags and cull trees too. I always carried a scale tape which has the scale written on it. All you need to know is the length and diameter of each log. We had to know how many bd. ft. were in the bigger logs, so that we did not go over the weight for the helicopter. It also helps to know how many pounds to the bd. ft. each species of trees is. Anyhow, we would write the length and diameter of each log we cut, including all cull and snags, on our hard hats, then at night we would calculate our scale. It depended on where you were but sometimes we would use west-side scale and other times east side, which I think allows for more taper.

It was awesome to be getting $12-$14 bucks a thousand and makin 3 or 4 hundred bucks a day Wish it would have been that way all the time!


----------



## RandyMac

Cody, did you do the tape under the brim trick? I used to peel them off and stick the tape on my own set of books.


----------



## 056 kid

RandyMac said:


> Cody, did you do the tape under the brim trick? I used to peel them off and stick the tape on my own set of books.



thats a dandy idea, I would think that pencil on aluminum would rub off easy, easier than masking tape. Maybe someday Il get to try it out..


----------



## slowp

Pencil on aluminum worked well. I used to write down tree measurements on my hat. It didn't come off til I wanted it to come off. Then we had to switch to :censored: plastic. 

I never think about putting tape on it till I'm out away from tape.


----------



## Metals406

Burvol said:


> Ask Cody, he's got all the bushels memorized by heart, I garauntee it
> I have to look in a book for those numbers. The bushlel for 36 and 40 is all I really pay attention to. There is gross and net scale. Deducts and other things factor what the log will ultimately pay, based on scale and that number. You measure the little end of the log and reference it the book. Guys that bushel for a living know all of the numbers by heart, it's how they make their money. I am hourly, but I definetly don't slouch at work. I want to be known as a good, productive, guy.



Well shucks. . . I thought you were actually measuring up a log. I didn't know you were using a scale book.

I was just looking at the FS publication of the Scibner Scale, that gives you BF for small-end and length measures. Reminds me of mechanics scale kinda. . . The book says three hours, so that's what it costs, whether it takes 3 or 1.

And here I thought you were doing math on the fly!


----------



## Dayto

Thats funny about the tape .... i just peeld on a freshy this morning/


----------



## Burvol

Metals406 said:


> Well shucks. . . I thought you were actually measuring up a log. I didn't know you were using a scale book.
> 
> I was just looking at the FS publication of the Scibner Scale, that gives you BF for small-end and length measures. Reminds me of mechanics scale kinda. . . The book says three hours, so that's what it costs, whether it takes 3 or 1.
> 
> And here I thought you were doing math on the fly!



Come on Nate, that's how you do it! You measure the log, LOL...unless you can guess the correct diameter of everything you see. Walking down I figured I had about a 46" log @ 32'. Turns out it was 44.5", so we'll say 44. Roughly 3 bushel in the first cut.

There's one out there that makes this thing look small. Don't know when I'll get to it. Hopefully soon!


----------



## Burvol

Randy Mac is probably laughing to himself watching all of us talk about trees like this. I know. I missed that era. This is all I have to look forward to. I'll take it. I'll do my best to save it out and make it right. There's a couple of old growth hooters in some parks where the hippies congrigate that need cut.


----------



## Gologit

*Morning Jesse*



Burvol said:


> Randy Mac is probably laughing to himself watching all of us talk about trees like this. I know. I missed that era. This is all I have to look forward to. I'll take it. I'll do my best to save it out and make it right. There's a couple of old growth hooters in some parks where the hippies congrigate that need cut.



I'm glad to see that somebody else is up before breakfast on their day off.

Get some of that Timber Harvest Boundary tape from Bailey's and wrap it around a few of those OG slugs...then sit back and watch the fun.

And...I don't think RandyMac, or me, are laughing at you guys...not even in fun. When we were young, agile, and ambitious those big trees were just part of the landscape and everybody we knew was logging them. I won't dwell on the "wish I knew then what I know now" garbage but the big stuff you guys cut now takes every bit of the skill and knowledge that we used then. What we did wasn't special or unique for the times we were in but I do wish it had lasted longer. I figure I was lucky to have been a part of it.


----------



## Burvol

*Moring Bob!*







Cut alot of pine like this yesterday. Wheeled this badboy in reverse (you can tell which way it's gonna break by looking at it). Coolest trick besides piece of pie anyone ever taught me. Start at the bottom, poke over to the far side as quick as possible, then keep coming up, (just like you wheel going down but in reverse) when the kerf closed below and your bar is still alive, you got it made. Stop about 1-2 inches before you blow through, pull out and snip the top. Works a hell of a lot better than matching cuts or putting a whip under the end. 






Nice 3-4 36's Red Fir everywhere, my favorite. Candy store I tell ya.


----------



## Metals406

Burvol said:


> Come on Nate, that's how you do it! You measure the log, LOL...unless you can guess the correct diameter of everything you see. Walking down I figured I had about a 46" log @ 32'. Turns out it was 44.5", so we'll say 44. Roughly 3 bushel in the first cut.
> 
> There's one out there that makes this thing look small. Don't know when I'll get to it. Hopefully soon!



By 'measure up', I meant measuring big-end, small-end, and length -- then applying a math formula (which is kinda what the scale tables do for you).

There are two math formulas out there that are the basis for most scale tables that have been developed (I read there have been hundreds of scales developed, we use three of them). . . One of them is the Frustum of a cone, and the other is Smalian's formula (Smalian has the widest acceptance world-wide for log scaling). The two formulas don't take into consideration defect or volume loss at the mill.

I know, I know. . . I'm a nerd.


----------



## Burvol

Metals406 said:


> By 'measure up', I meant measuring big-end, small-end, and length -- then applying a math formula (which is kinda what the scale tables do for you).
> 
> There are two math formulas out there that are the basis for most scale tables that have been developed (I read there have been hundreds of scales developed, we use three of them). . . One of them is the Frustum of a cone, and the other is Smalian's formula (Smalian has the widest acceptance world-wide for log scaling). The two formulas don't take into consideration defect or volume loss at the mill.
> 
> I know, I know. . . I'm a nerd.



Whoa, buddy. Your a guy that cuts stuff from rough stock and makes it into very fine detail. I have seen your work  I would say detail oriented. Nerd is for people who can't laugh 
We just need to know the diameter of the little end, length and look it up in a scale book.


----------



## RandyMac

Burv my lad, I wouldn't laugh at you, I'd love to wander through your patch of trees, they would be great fun to fall. I don't think you are nuts for thinking you are in the good stuff, in this day and age, you are in the good stuff. It's not your fault that knotheads in the past cut all your old growth. The big timber was a lot of work, give me a 6 cubic inch saw and 36" trees any day, all day.
Listen to Bob, he makes much more sense then I do, and he is still at it.
I'm going to go play with my new 797 and think about hooters.
Burv, quit worrying about it, go get a Steelhead.


----------



## Metals406

Burvol said:


> Whoa, buddy. Your a guy that cuts stuff from rough stock and makes it into very fine detail. I have seen your work  I would say detail oriented. Nerd is for people who can't laugh
> We just need to know the diameter of the little end, length and look it up in a scale book.



LOL. . . Yeah, I'm detail oriented for sure. I'm the same way when falling trees, when the stump isn't perfect, it drives me nuts!!

I did fall a nice little DF yesterday, it was probably 18" on the butt. It had a hard lean down the hill and to the left, and I wanted it to go down and to the right.

I gunned it 30° to the right of side lean, and put in a super sweet Humboldt that was really open to keep it on the stump longer. I cut most of the left side hold-wood as I did my back-cut. She swung right, but a little Fir kept me from nailing my lay dead nuts.

It was freaking sweet, I love falling timber! It was close enough that I could skid it out without ####ing around with a face or a roll. 

I tell ya Jesse, if the market would turn around, I'd go bid more of those Stewardship contracts in a heartbeat. As it stands, there isn't anywhere local to sell the product, not even sawdust. :rant:

Although, a local firewood dude (he processes and ships all of the country) will buy whitewood for a pretty good tonnage rate. Last year he'd buy it by the truckload and was paying 42 a ton.

I envy you guys that are still out in the brush!! Make sure when you drop that fir pumpkin, make us a video!


----------



## Burvol

RandyMac said:


> Burv my lad, I wouldn't laugh at you, I'd love to wander through your patch of trees, they would be great fun to fall. I don't think you are nuts for thinking you are in the good stuff, in this day and age, you are in the good stuff. It's not your fault that knotheads in the past cut all your old growth. The big timber was a lot of work, give me a 6 cubic inch saw and 36" trees any day, all day.
> Listen to Bob, he makes much more sense then I do, and he is still at it.
> I'm going to go play with my new 797 and think about hooters.
> Burv, quit worrying about it, go get a Steelhead.



Yes sir! Get right on that Randy. Think I'm off AS for the day, out into the shop to grind chains, grease the calks and then go get that steelhead.


----------



## RandyMac

Git to it, report back.


----------



## GASoline71

How was your trip Randy... sorry we didn't get the chance to hook up. How's that big Mac 797?

Gary


----------



## Greystoke

RandyMac said:


> Cody, did you do the tape under the brim trick? I used to peel them off and stick the tape on my own set of books.



See that white strip of tape around my hardhat in these pics:
















Also here on my Brothers tin hat and the Bullbuck to his left:






Anyhow, that tape is hard to find. It was called plastic tape I think? It was usually found in a well stocked hardware store, and usually came in a small roll with a variety of colors, with yellow and white working the best. You had to stretch it on real tight, but it worked great! I can't recall ever losin any numbers. I would copy it at night onto my scale sheet then wash it off with comet. I would also use a rite in the rain book occasionally if I was wearin a goofy george jetson hat. Also I had all my numbers in shorthand. Y=40 x=32...I had a symbol for every log length, and all my buddies thought I was crazy, but anything to save time when you are bushelin!


----------



## coastalfaller

tarzanstree said:


> See that white strip of tape around my hardhat in these pics:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also here on my Brothers tin hat and the Bullbuck to his left:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyhow, that tape is hard to find. It was called plastic tape I think? It was usually found in a well stocked hardware store, and usually came in a small roll with a variety of colors, with yellow and white working the best. You had to stretch it on real tight, but it worked great! I can't recall ever losin any numbers. I would copy it at night onto my scale sheet then wash it off with comet. I would also use a rite in the rain book occasionally if I was wearin a goofy george jetson hat. Also I had all my numbers in shorthand. Y=40 x=32...I had a symbol for every log length, and all my buddies thought I was crazy, but anything to save time when you are bushelin!



Great pics, Cody!!


----------



## hammerlogging

Burvol said:


> Joe, you know I did not direct the title of the pic at you! I was being a turd.



thats just quality #### talking, which is far different from being a ####. Harrassment appreciated. Made me laugh.

Any credit for my wood is heavier than yours?


----------



## Cedarkerf

Lotta great pics have been added to this thread the Giant spruces are great. Great thread Jesse.


----------



## Burvol

Cedarkerf said:


> Lotta great pics have been added to this thread the Giant spruces are great. Great thread Jesse.



Thanks Brian. Now this is what I like at AS. I'm doing my best to stay out of the other forums :bang: and stick among the bretheren and the barbarian.


----------



## RandyMac

You pup!!! LOL!!!


----------



## Burvol

No fish, but spring chinook are just about here. Got poison oak on face. I thought I was about immune to that #### by now.


----------



## forestryworks

*I Burvol'd a pine*

I hate showing the same pics twice, but I had to share.






and split an old stump - i surprised myself with this one.


----------



## mile9socounty

Ya'll got some great pictures and information on this thread.  Wish I had something to compair to trees ya'll are falling/have fell. But I'm more into the Forestry part. Keep them coming guys.


----------



## schmuck.k

*hey burvol*

really nice pics looks like fun


----------



## slowp

*Apres Work*

And, did you know that you can get little pins at the Crocs seller at the Lloyd Center to decorate your Crocs? 

I still want to know where you are finding that sunny weather. Today might be nice here.


----------



## Moose315

Awesome pics!!!:greenchainsaw:


----------



## 056 kid

RandyMac said:


> Burv my lad, I wouldn't laugh at you, I'd love to wander through your patch of trees, they would be great fun to fall. I don't think you are nuts for thinking you are in the good stuff, in this day and age, you are in the good stuff. It's not your fault that knotheads in the past cut all your old growth. The big timber was a lot of work, give me a 6 cubic inch saw and 36" trees any day, all day.
> Listen to Bob, he makes much more sense then I do, and he is still at it.
> I'm going to go play with my new 797 and think about hooters.
> Burv, quit worrying about it, *go get a Steelhead*.






I hooked to a mother ####ing MONSTER today, I bet he was every bit of 32'' and thats a conservative estimate. I thought I had snagged the bottom but realized I had a fish after _he_ realized he was hooked. So my dumb ass gets all upidy and tries to land the fish before he wanted to be landed. Tryed to tail him, (the bastards tail was as big as my wrist!) and he went ballistic, made a U turn and drug my line under my shoe and set him self free. MAN O MAN I am so ####in mad at myself right now:censored:    :taped: :censored: Well, at least my roe cure works good...


----------



## GASoline71

a few years back I thought I had snagged a log or the bottom of the Skagit river here in NW WA... So I proceeded to pull hard to just snap my line and be doen with it... Then the line pulled back... damn near jerked the rod out of my hand... it was a HUGE King... 

he came to the surface and rolled over about three times, and darted down stream. my drag was litterally smoking... he must have got around a log or a sharp rock... cuz then he was gone. talk about a 30 second adrenaline rush! HAHA!

Gary


----------



## slowp

I was trolling for salmon on the Alsea River. Just floating up with the tide in my red kayak. I hadn't had a bite. Then, something grabbed the line, the kayak turned downriver, and a Alsea Sleighride began. Then I lost it. My plan was to work the rudder and beach the kayak, but I didn't get a chance to try out "the plan."

Kayaking with friends on the Siltcoos, near the beach, I almost got smacked by a jumping salmon. They look large when they are about to clobber you. 
Very large.


----------



## Greystoke

slowp said:


> I was trolling for salmon on the Alsea River. Just floating up with the tide in my red kayak. I hadn't had a bite. Then, something grabbed the line, the kayak turned downriver, and a Alsea Sleighride began. Then I lost it. My plan was to work the rudder and beach the kayak, but I didn't get a chance to try out "the plan."
> 
> Kayaking with friends on the Siltcoos, near the beach, I almost got smacked by a jumping salmon. They look large when they are about to clobber you.
> Very large.



Remember seeing this a while back, and thought you might appreciate it 







I kayaked a little when I lived in Alaska, and I remember hearing stories about whales and other large sea creatures coming right up by kayakers...that would be humbling!


----------



## slowp

Seals!!! They pop up around you. Their heads are huge. The last trip I took in the bay, they chased me. I think a kayaker must have fed them That was a bit nervewracking. 

I took my golden retriever out in a kayak I called, The Whaleboat. She wanted to jump out after the seals. I thumped her on the head, but not too hard, with the paddle so she learned to stay put.


----------



## madhatte

slowp said:


> Alsea Sleighride



HAW!

'97 I was working for BLM near Alsea Falls. Nice area. The pub in Alpine was awesome. Haven't been there in years, though.


----------



## joesawer

Forestryworks 
If you where aiming at that stump that was a good shot!

Slowp
I got a sun burn today, My neck is stinging!


----------



## Burvol

I got a big set of Silveys and a a tree saver too. The little tree saver has to be the greatest thing for a faller since the power saw! Put a wedge or two on the low side for help. These are strong little jacks. Rated for 45 ton, and I believe it. The first picture is a 38" Red Fir with 3 40's and was leaning out over the RMZ, hard. No problem with a wedge for help.


----------



## RandyMac

That's my lad!!! Good job!!!


----------



## 056 kid

Burvol said:


> I got a big set of Silveys and a a tree saver too. The little tree saver has to be the greatest thing for a faller since the power saw! Put a wedge or two on the low side for help. These are strong little jacks. Rated for 45 ton, and I believe it. The first picture is a 38" Red Fir with 3 40's and was leaning out over the RMZ, hard. No problem with a wedge for help.



Good to see you got your $s worth dude!


----------



## Greystoke

Burvol said:


> I got a big set of Silveys and a a tree saver too. The little tree saver has to be the greatest thing for a faller since the power saw! Put a wedge or two on the low side for help. These are strong little jacks. Rated for 45 ton, and I believe it. The first picture is a 38" Red Fir with 3 40's and was leaning out over the RMZ, hard. No problem with a wedge for help.



Nice Fir! Never got to try one of those jacks, although I can think of many occasions when I would have liked too. Only ones I ever got to use were the tree savers @ 124 tons with both rams. Kind of an overkill at times, although a lot of times I would just use one ram. Another glorious day pard!


----------



## Curlycherry1

A question about those jacks that I have wondered about. How much can those beasts push a tree over? Example can they tip a say 30" tree over if it has 5 degrees (or more) or so of lean in the wrong direction?


----------



## RandyMac

Curlycherry1 said:


> A question about those jacks that I have wondered about. How much can those beasts push a tree over? Example can they tip a say 30" tree over if it has 5 degrees (or more) or so of lean in the wrong direction?



Yep can do, a jack can lift a tree right off the stump, with predictable results.


----------



## Greystoke

Curlycherry1 said:


> A question about those jacks that I have wondered about. How much can those beasts push a tree over? Example can they tip a say 30" tree over if it has 5 degrees (or more) or so of lean in the wrong direction?



Definitely could. One important thing is that the holding wood is sound. You would be amazed at what they can jack over. The biggest baddest leaner that I ever saw was jacked over with 10 tree saver rams...10 x 62 tons= 620 tons of pressure. Said tree was a big 50 bushel redwood close to the bottom of a steep draw with about a 10 degree? lean down the hill. All I know is it had a crazy lean, and standing next to it you would wonder how it was still standing. The first day working in that area was the last day for owl circle buffers, which this tree was growing in, so I did not get a hand in falling it, and they fell it the next open buffer season (unfortunately I was gone recovering from a broken leg)  Anyhow, they used ten rams and jacked it straight up the hill...wish I coulda been in on that one! Tree jacks definitely have their place. I always ran a 6 pound axe head with a 36" handle and a packsack full of k & h wedges if I was on steep ground and big wood, but jacking sure made it a lot funner


----------



## Burvol

Thanks fellas. Cody, your spot on as usual :agree2: K&H and 6 lbs. only way to fly on ground that is directional and bad. I have an old 5lbs. Collins that my friend's Dad cut and welded a custon 2lbs. Chunk of killer steel on the end (7lbs. Custom ). It's a war club. SOB makes some noise when you take your plugs out He did such a good job and cleaned the weld up so well you can't tell it's not stock. I have a 4.5 pounder I carry in small wood at times.


----------



## Curlycherry1

I always figured they would be pretty useful, but back East we don't get too many trees big enough to use one and still have much of a place to put a saw. Those jacks seem to take up a bit of realestate on the stump. 

I did pull plenty of trees over with cables. I'd get the climbing spikes on and go up the tree about 2/3 or so, cable it off and then call a skidder or dozer over to yank the bugger over. I hated those things and fortunately most neighboring landowners were not jerks so they would let us drop stuff over the line and skid it back. There were some that were total PITAs and never wanted to find a leaf fall on their side of the property line.


----------



## Burvol

Forgot to mention that when I first started using it, it took me 2 months to learn how to not splatter wedges LOL. Once you get use to it, there's no other axe for me in big wood.


----------



## Burvol

I can get a tree saver in with a stump still 8-9" inches on my side. The big set are a lot taller, but big wood usually has swell anyway.


----------



## slowp

How heavy is the jack to carry? Do you ever wish for a goat to carry all the gear?


----------



## 056 kid

I want one of those little tree savers. I could make jaws drop back east. . . .


----------



## Burvol

056 kid said:


> I want one of those little tree savers. I could make jaws drop back east. . . .



1900 new. They are nice. I'm pumped your going back to cuttin' logs brother!


----------



## Curlycherry1

slowp said:


> How heavy is the jack to carry? Do you ever wish for a goat to carry all the gear?



They just pop them in their back pocket. 



> 1900 new. They are nice. I'm pumped your going back to cuttin' logs brother!



$1900!??!?!!! Holy heck! Gimmie a Northern Tool bottle jack and a 1/2" hunk of plate steel or better yet Inconel (I use it at work and it is amazing) and I would be good to go for less than 50 bucks!


----------



## Burvol

slowp said:


> How heavy is the jack to carry? Do you ever wish for a goat to carry all the gear?



I think the big set is 80-100 (sure feels like it LOL) 

The tree saver is 37lbs and contains one quart of oil in the bottom, all self contained. 

We're tough. (Cody looks like he could be a brawler) Ask any of the guys on here. Just goes with the territory. Not saying I'm some macho ass tough guy, but you have to be strong to cut logs all day, and keep the pace and quality up! 

Eat real food!!! MEAT & veggies are your friend. 

I eat one of those 600 calorie Cosco Chocolate or Poppy seed muffin and a VHC drink (560 calories) at about a half a jug gone. Takes 5 mins to get 1200 calories! Eat my trail mix when I go to get my second jug. Power aid and lots water is what I like to drink. I back off the coffee one notch (but still enough to kill a Rhino) when the heat starts.


----------



## Burvol

Curlycherry1 said:


> They just pop them in their back pocket.
> 
> 
> 
> $1900!??!?!!! Holy heck! Gimmie a Northern Tool bottle jack and a 1/2" hunk of plate steel or better yet Inconel (I use it at work and it is amazing) and I would be good to go for less than 50 bucks!



Not the same. Think about what a tree does as the jack goes up. Those springs aren't for looks. The plate has to be able to travel at the same degree of the butt, all the while still properly lifting. I have used bottle jacks, and they do somewhat work. Pain in the ass though....handle, plate, jack and they wiegh a hell of a lot more for the same rating.


----------



## Curlycherry1

Burvol said:


> Not the same. Think about what a tree does as the jack goes up. Those springs aren't for looks. The plate has to be able to travel at the same degree of the butt, all the while still properly lifting. I have used bottle jacks, and they do somewhat work. Pain in the ass though....handle, plate, jack and they wiegh a hell of a lot more for the same rating.



As with all tools there is a reason the expensive ones cost the most. But still $1900, wow, I need to invent me something like that! 

I know what you mean about caloric intake. Back when I was really hustling wood I drank 24 bottle of Pepsi per day and sweat every drop of it out. I could eat two Whoppers and 2 orders of fries at lunch. I could pack away a dozen donuts by 10 am too and still I looked like a piece of beef jerky as I had little to no body fat. Things changed when I got out of the woods and they really changed when I hit 40. Now everything does not get burned like it used to. 

I can tell Gabe Rygard has not worked recently as a real logger, his belly is a tell tale sign he has spent a bit more time eating than he has logging.


----------



## Burvol

Curlycherry1 said:


> As with all tools there is a reason the expensive ones cost the most. But still $1900, wow, I need to invent me something like that!
> 
> I know what you mean about caloric intake. Back when I was really hustling wood I drank 24 bottle of Pepsi per day and sweat every drop of it out. I could eat two Whoppers and 2 orders of fries at lunch. I could pack away a dozen donuts by 10 am too and still I looked like a piece of beef jerky as I had little to no body fat. Things changed when I got out of the woods and they really changed when I hit 40. Now everything does not get burned like it used to.
> 
> I can tell Gabe Rygard has not worked recently as a real logger, his belly is a tell tale sign he has spent a bit more time eating than he has logging.




I don't eat much bread, but a lot of Museli cereal with about 7 tablespoons on Adam's natural peanut butter and your good to go! I torture myself in the winter or when I'm off, and eat less. I love to cook. It can be hard. But I like to gain 10lbs. in the winter like a cat and stay warm. Pick up the guitar. Big dinners. Family time. Start chopping at the bit for the next season.


----------



## 056 kid

Burvol said:


> I think the big set is 80-100 (sure feels like it LOL)
> 
> The tree saver is 37lbs and contains one quart of oil in the bottom, all self contained.
> 
> We're tough. (Cody looks like he could be a brawler) Ask any of the guys on here. Just goes with the territory. Not saying I'm some macho ass tough guy, but you have to be strong to cut logs all day, and keep the pace and quality up!
> 
> Eat real food!!! MEAT & veggies are your friend.
> 
> I eat one of those 600 calorie Cosco Chocolate or Poppy seed muffin and a VHC drink (560 calories) at about a half a jug gone. Takes 5 mins to get 1200 calories! Eat my trail mix when I go to get my second jug. Power aid and lots water is what I like to drink. I back off the coffee one notch (but still enough to kill a Rhino) when the heat starts.



Damn right we are tough(Cody looks like he would break your nose & jaw in a split second and then ask you what you are bleeding for & what you are holding your mouth for..) you get hurt enough trying to do your job every day & you start to not care what all the bastards around you want to do to you. i know thats the way i felt when I was cutting logs. 

Hell i dunno, i need to fall some timber so I can bring myself back into halfway reality, cause right now Im GONE......

Coffee? you give me two cups & you had better watch out for the next two days cause I am not sleeping or slowing down. my pops drinks about 3 pots a daay. i need to work me up a tolerance so I can get down like my Pops, that man hasent stopped puttin it down since he got out of a diaper.........


----------



## Metals406

I've cut down to 2 pots of fresh ground a day. 

Then I got to pound some water, cause it'll dehydrate you like pounding beers.


----------



## Hddnis

All this food talk is making me hungry and bringing back memories of a lot of good meals I've had to eat. LOL

I remember one time meeting a friend for lunch as he was in town for the day. We decided to go to BK and for lunch I ate two double whoppers and an extra large fry order, all washed down with two fills on their big cup of lemonade. My friend is a great guy and a hard worker, but he drives a desk writing computer code all day. He ate a cheeseburger and half his fries and kept looking at me like I was not human or something. Finally he says "I guess you must need all that food." LOL

All this being out of work is killing my lean figure, I've hit 205lbs, that is the most I've ever been.



Mr. HE


----------



## 056 kid

You should all listen to Stevie Ray Vaughn. he is is the best guitar player EVER. I know my log cutting buddys can appreciat. . . . . . . . . . . .. .. .. . . . .b. . . . ..


----------



## slowp

Hddnis said:


> All this food talk is making me hungry and bringing back memories of a lot of good meals I've had to eat. LOL
> 
> I remember one time meeting a friend for lunch as he was in town for the day. We decided to go to BK and for lunch I ate two double whoppers and an extra large fry order, all washed down with two fills on their big cup of lemonade. My friend is a great guy and a hard worker, but he drives a desk writing computer code all day. He ate a cheeseburger and half his fries and kept looking at me like I was not human or something. Finally he says "I guess you must need all that food." LOL
> 
> All this being out of work is killing my lean figure, I've hit 205lbs, that is the most I've ever been.
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. HE



Yes, being on the timber marking crew was the same. I'd put on 20 pounds in the winter, then drop it quickly when we started up. In fact, when we had little slalom races for beer, I liked the extra weight for more propulsion down the hill. 

Don't get hurt, that's when the pounds can really pack on. 

I wish everybody would get going too.


----------



## Greystoke

Burvol said:


> Thanks fellas. Cody, your spot on as usual :agree2: K&H and 6 lbs. only way to fly on ground that is directional and bad. I have an old 5lbs. Collins that my friend's Dad cut and welded a custon 2lbs. Chunk of killer steel on the end (7lbs. Custom ). It's a war club. SOB makes some noise when you take your plugs out He did such a good job and cleaned the weld up so well you can't tell it's not stock. I have a 4.5 pounder I carry in small wood at times.



That sounds like a hell of an axe! You ever come across any stroh axes? I have one and am always on the lookout for another. I remember when I first started running a bigger axe with 36in. handle I definitely splattered a few wedges and broke a few axe handles...It takes practice, kinda like golf.


----------



## Greystoke

Burvol said:


> I think the big set is 80-100 (sure feels like it LOL)
> 
> The tree saver is 37lbs and contains one quart of oil in the bottom, all self contained.
> 
> We're tough. (Cody looks like he could be a brawler) Ask any of the guys on here. Just goes with the territory. Not saying I'm some macho ass tough guy, but you have to be strong to cut logs all day, and keep the pace and quality up!
> 
> Eat real food!!! MEAT & veggies are your friend.
> 
> I eat one of those 600 calorie Cosco Chocolate or Poppy seed muffin and a VHC drink (560 calories) at about a half a jug gone. Takes 5 mins to get 1200 calories! Eat my trail mix when I go to get my second jug. Power aid and lots water is what I like to drink. I back off the coffee one notch (but still enough to kill a Rhino) when the heat starts.



According to Madsens the tree saver backpack unit weighs 59 lbs. I am not sure if that is empty of fluid or not...also depends if you are running a longer hose to. My jacks just have the 10 foot hose, but the ones that we used for Columbia had some longer...I remember one set we used had a 50 footer. I rarely carried the whole thing on my back, usually just packing in, then I would just pack the pump on my back and a ram in each hand.

I am definitely no brawler, lol! That was my oldest Brother, and he ended up in prison, so a good lesson for me. You do have to be tough though, especially on rugged ground in bigger timber. One of my buddies says of loggers: "If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough". I would be hurting right now if I had to go cut timber for 6 or 7 hours, 6 days a week. Nothing can prepare you for it. I lift weights in the downtime, and have gotten a heck of a lot stronger, but I have also gained some fat(when I was cutting timber regularly I was around 165 - 175lbs. I am 5' 8". Now I am 195 to 200). Anyhow, it would take me a while to get to my bustin ass mode again. Shoeing horses is the same...I have been working with my buddy the last few days, on a lot of horses, and I have not been doing it much this year before this, now we have been working on a bunch and I feel it today!

One cup of coffee a day, and I try to watch my food intake. When I am working steady I definitely kick it up, but in my downtime if I keep up my intake I have to lift weights, which I take fairly seriously. When I was falling timber full time I had to eat a lot more than I do now.


----------



## Greystoke

Curlycherry1 said:


> As with all tools there is a reason the expensive ones cost the most. But still $1900, wow, I need to invent me something like that!
> 
> I know what you mean about caloric intake. Back when I was really hustling wood I drank 24 bottle of Pepsi per day and sweat every drop of it out. I could eat two Whoppers and 2 orders of fries at lunch. I could pack away a dozen donuts by 10 am too and still I looked like a piece of beef jerky as I had little to no body fat. Things changed when I got out of the woods and they really changed when I hit 40. Now everything does not get burned like it used to.
> 
> I can tell Gabe Rygard has not worked recently as a real logger, his belly is a tell tale sign he has spent a bit more time eating than he has logging.



The tree saver backpack unit is $3295! I got mine used, but just like new for $800. It was a steal, and the only thing I can think is the guy must have been hard up. They are definitely worth the money if you are in big expensive timber, and want to save it out.

Gabe Rygard is what me and a few other timber fallers that I worked with would refer to as a "cab lizard" lol! I have a feelin I am gonna pay for that one...oh well!


----------



## Curlycherry1

tarzanstree said:


> Gabe Rygard is what me and a few other timber fallers that I worked with would refer to as a "cab lizard" lol! I have a feelin I am gonna pay for that one...oh well!



Cab Lizard, I have not heard that in 20 years. 

Just when grapple skidders starting to show up around me the operators of those were called Grapple Apes. Cable skidder operators called the grapple operators soft because they never had to get out of the cab of their skidder.


----------



## coastalfaller

*Camp food*

The one good thing about camp has got to be the food. Anything you want for breakfast, pancakes, omelettes, french toast, bacon & eggs, cereal, oatmeal, etc, etc! Except on Sundays....that's eggs benny day! Make your lunch in the lunch room, a ton of deli meats, usually left overs from the previous night's dinner, fruit, veggies, yogurt, breads, cheeses, hard boiled eggs, you name it, it's probably there, and yes of course, the pastries! Dinner's are where we really get spoiled. Every Friday alternates between prime rib & steak. The last day of the shift is always a chinese smorgasboard, and let me tell you, it is better than most chinese restaurants I've ate in! The other nights are always a surprise, roast beef, ham, chicken, and of course being on the coast, our fair share of steak & crab, salmon, and halibut! Yes, the food has got to be the best thing about camp, but unfortunately that doesn't make up for the fact that it is still camp!


----------



## Greystoke

coastalfaller said:


> The one good thing about camp has got to be the food. Anything you want for breakfast, pancakes, omelettes, french toast, bacon & eggs, cereal, oatmeal, etc, etc! Except on Sundays....that's eggs benny day! Make your lunch in the lunch room, a ton of deli meats, usually left overs from the previous night's dinner, fruit, veggies, yogurt, breads, cheeses, hard boiled eggs, you name it, it's probably there, and yes of course, the pastries! Dinner's are where we really get spoiled. Every Friday alternates between prime rib & steak. The last day of the shift is always a chinese smorgasboard, and let me tell you, it is better than most chinese restaurants I've ate in! The other nights are always a surprise, roast beef, ham, chicken, and of course being on the coast, our fair share of steak & crab, salmon, and halibut! Yes, the food has got to be the best thing about camp, but unfortunately that doesn't make up for the fact that it is still camp!



If it were not for good food at camp I don't think a lot of guys would stick around. My first time in camp, the first thing all the old mossbacks that spent every season in camp said when we got there was "is the cook a good one"...he was, although I did long for a greasy mcdonalds meal after 4 months in camp. Now onto "dry" camps..............


----------



## coastalfaller

tarzanstree said:


> If it were not for good food at camp I don't think a lot of guys would stick around. My first time in camp, the first thing all the old mossbacks that spent every season in camp said when we got there was "is the cook a good one"...he was, although I did long for a greasy mcdonalds meal after 4 months in camp. Now onto "dry" camps..............



LOL! Yeah, I hear you on the Mcdonalds! Every now and then we get burger & fries night too! I agree though, w/o good food, it would be a pretty tough sell! On the "dry" camps issue......let's not go there!


----------



## Greystoke

coastalfaller said:


> On the "dry" camps issue......let's not go there!



LOL! Sorry Pard...seems like that is always a touchy issue!


----------



## coastalfaller

tarzanstree said:


> LOL! Sorry Pard...seems like that is always a touchy issue!



Ha, ha, no worries with me, Cody! Doesn't really matter to me. I enjoy a couple drinks, just living in a camp it's such close quarters everyone has to respect each other and some guys have a hard time doing that!!


----------



## Greystoke

coastalfaller said:


> Ha, ha, no worries with me, Cody! Doesn't really matter to me. I enjoy a couple drinks, just living in a camp it's such close quarters everyone has to respect each other and some guys have a hard time doing that!!



Yeah I hear ya there...always a few bone-heads to screw it up for everyone else. Another one of those deals where if a guy keeps it on the down-low, everything was cool. It was just the bone-heads that could not keep it on the DL. I showed up to one camp, toward the end of season and there was drama every day...rigging rats fightin, bullet holes through the floor and walls of camp, one of the fallers had a bullet come into his room while he was bunkin down for the night and enter the wall about a foot above his head! Some of those guys were morons, and it sucks to have to live with morons. Last camp I was at was so full of drugs that I did not even cut a tree. Unloaded my stuff off the boat, took a look around, did not like what I saw, so I loaded my gear back up and said "get me the hell outa here"! Woulda been a bad place for me as I was goin through a divorce. That was the fastest tramp I had ever performed!


----------



## coastalfaller

tarzanstree said:


> Yeah I hear ya there...always a few bone-heads to screw it up for everyone else. Another one of those deals where if a guy keeps it on the down-low, everything was cool. It was just the bone-heads that could not keep it on the DL. I showed up to one camp, toward the end of season and there was drama every day...rigging rats fightin, bullet holes through the floor and walls of camp, one of the fallers had a bullet come into his room while he was bunkin down for the night and enter the wall about a foot above his head! Some of those guys were morons, and it sucks to have to live with morons. Last camp I was at was so full of drugs that I did not even cut a tree. Unloaded my stuff off the boat, took a look around, did not like what I saw, so I loaded my gear back up and said "get me the hell outa here"! Woulda been a bad place for me as I was goin through a divorce. That was the fastest tramp I had ever performed!



Oh man, yep, I hear you. If the walls could talk in some of those camps! Some crazy guys doing some crazy things! A buddy of mine did that once too, didn't even get all his gear unloaded off the plane before he hopped back on!


----------



## Greystoke

coastalfaller said:


> Oh man, yep, I hear you. If the walls could talk in some of those camps! Some crazy guys doing some crazy things! A buddy of mine did that once too, didn't even get all his gear unloaded off the plane before he hopped back on!



Biggest problem I always had was gettin stuck with a room mate that snored louder than his powersaw, and was always in bed before me! That is when I started sleeping with earplugs in. I was usually roomed with older guys, so I would rather put up with snorin, rather than some of the other antics the bone-heads pulled!


----------



## coastalfaller

tarzanstree said:


> Biggest problem I always had was gettin stuck with a room mate that snored louder than his powersaw, and was always in bed before me! That is when I started sleeping with earplugs in. I was usually roomed with older guys, so I would rather put up with snorin, rather than some of the other antics the bone-heads pulled!



Yeah, that would not be fun. We're spoiled in that regard, most camps here are one guy to a room. Of course, the walls aren't that thick, so you still have to hope that your neighbour doesn't rattle the walls in his sleep!


----------



## Greystoke

coastalfaller said:


> Yeah, that would not be fun. We're spoiled in that regard, most camps here are one guy to a room. Of course, the walls aren't that thick, so you still have to hope that your neighbour doesn't rattle the walls in his sleep!



That would be sweet!


----------



## Burvol

*I'm honest*






Today I was going at a steady clip with a little wind. I came to a small (20-22 DBH 2 lengths) Pine with a bunch of rocks/dirt on the uphill side of the side lean. I chose to cut under the lean instead of highstumping. I usually practice it once or twice a week to keep the ability when needed in times like this. I rarely check my far corner in wood this size, no need usually. When your getting close to backing it up all the way, all you have to do is check your sights when they are lined up at what you gunned at, then look at how much wood you have left. That should be the same all the way across. I took my eyes off it and watched the wind blow the top around. I thought I had it sawn up enough when a pretty good gust made it jump. I pulled out and it chaired. Only lost about 6 feet of wood, not too bad. I had a tad shallow of a face for wind. My fault. It's been a while since I chaired a tree. A baby chair it was. I have one hooter under my belt,  LOL. It's been a few years. I just wanted to share some reality with you guys. No one is perfect, but it can happen. I'm sure Cody, Randy, and Bob have all had the pleasure.


----------



## madhatte

That woulda woke me right up, I can tell you.


----------



## Metals406

Burvol said:


> Today I was going at a steady clip with a little wind. I came to a small (20-22 DBH 2 lengths) Pine with a bunch of rocks/dirt on the uphill side of the side lean. I chose to cut under the lean instead of highstumping. I usually practice it once or twice a week to keep the ability when needed in times like this. I rarely check my far corner in wood this size, no need usually. When your getting close to backing it up all the way, all you have to do is check your sights when they are lined up at what you gunned at, then look at how much wood you have left. That should be the same all the way across. I took my eyes off it and watched the wind blow the top around. I thought I had it sawn up enough when a pretty good gust made it jump. I pulled out and it chaired. Only lost about 6 feet of wood, not too bad. I had a tad shallow of a face for wind. My fault. It's been a while since I chaired a tree. A baby chair it was. I have one hooter under my belt,  LOL. It's been a few years. I just wanted to share some reality with you guys. No one is perfect, but it can happen. I'm sure Cody, Randy, and Bob have all had the pleasure.



Glad you're okay brother! Those can give ya quite a pucker!


----------



## slowp

Wow. Besides it being another day there where you can see shadows, it looks flat. 

You'll get spoiled.


----------



## coastalfaller

Burvol said:


> Today I was going at a steady clip with a little wind. I came to a small (20-22 DBH 2 lengths) Pine with a bunch of rocks/dirt on the uphill side of the side lean. I chose to cut under the lean instead of highstumping. I usually practice it once or twice a week to keep the ability when needed in times like this. I rarely check my far corner in wood this size, no need usually. When your getting close to backing it up all the way, all you have to do is check your sights when they are lined up at what you gunned at, then look at how much wood you have left. That should be the same all the way across. I took my eyes off it and watched the wind blow the top around. I thought I had it sawn up enough when a pretty good gust made it jump. I pulled out and it chaired. Only lost about 6 feet of wood, not too bad. I had a tad shallow of a face for wind. My fault. It's been a while since I chaired a tree. A baby chair it was. I have one hooter under my belt,  LOL. It's been a few years. I just wanted to share some reality with you guys. No one is perfect, but it can happen. I'm sure Cody, Randy, and Bob have all had the pleasure.



Been there, buddy! An older faller I once worked with, who was a hell of a good faller, had the misfortune of busting a 6ft spruce over a stump. Not only did he feel bad enough about that, but it happened right on the high side of the main line! People drove by that for over a month before it was logged. Poor guy, I thought he was going to die from embarrassment. Just goes to show you though.....it happens to the best of us!


----------



## RandyMac

YEEEHAWWW!!
I love the sound of shearing wood fibers. Oh yeah, been there......


----------



## 056 kid

Glad to see you posting the real world of a timber cutter. Some of these "experts" out here have been cutting 20 years and have never had a tree chair on them, i dont know what to say about that.... Had that been a nice eastern hardwood, you would have had to back up about 15 yards to include all the damage haha. that stick there looks to have the same kind of fibers in it as our east coasty White pines. they are super fun to cut, like butter!!

You made any hunting arangements yet? As soon as you do I am gonna get mines filled out and ready to go. hopefully the tax man visits my bank account here soon cause I am Jonesin bad for a cut......


----------



## Burvol

Ya, I ain't proud of it, LOL. Just thought I'd be honest and share my day with ya. Yesterday was a better day (murdered it, but an eliquient death, it was dealt! LOL), but today was not bad. I cut out another landing ahead of our strips today, about 2 loads of gorgeous Pine and a load of nice fir kinda growing in a ring around a nice little grassy opening...all ready to turn into a mud hole filled logs! Yeehaa! I wagon wheeled it around, should of took a picture for example of what a "WW" setting, strip, or lead looks like. The new landing is just above the steep canyon I was jacking in the last few days. After I had the landing cut and bucked out, I squared the west edge of our strips up, working back to my truck. All square and opened up for Monday. I have kinda just been sharing my life with you guys at work off and on. When the fish get to running, I'll have my eggs on ice with my rod and gear ridin' shotgun everyday. I'll probably be less sharing with the photos and such. Got fish to kill. That's living right there. Cut logs all morning until 1:00, then throw on some shorts and go beat some river on the way home.


----------



## Burvol

slowp said:


> Wow. Besides it being another day there where you can see shadows, it looks flat.
> 
> You'll get spoiled.



Your just like an old hand, seen it all...more interested in the ground! LOL 
This is a fun unit. Two canyons run each side of it. One is the "Slot" and one is the "LVSH" (Can anyone guess what that stands for? I named them both)They're punching skid trails down the holes with cat, and the skidder operators jump on the 6 to go pull line and do some hand logging. Plenty of huge rocks steep cuts and snags with an RMZ the whole length. Up top is mostly nice ground.


----------



## joesawer

I did almost the exact same thing on a pine I was cutting for my dad. Boy did I hear about that. I think there is still an 8' half of a butt log that I save out of it on his yard. I will try to get a pic of it tomorrow.


----------



## hammerlogging

*check yer phone*

No pics from me for today, checked my messages ripping down the highway at 4:45 am on the way to work.... oops, message from last night, not working today afterall.


----------



## RandyMac

hammerlogging said:


> No pics from me for today, checked my messages ripping down the highway at 4:45 am on the way to work.... oops, message from last night, not working today afterall.



Dang, since you are up early, go fishing. You live and work in a great part of the country, I look forward to seeing your pics.


----------



## Burvol

Night shift Randy?


----------



## RandyMac

Yup, and almost over, I was one cRanky SOB too. I'll be home in an hour, the start of four days off.


----------



## Gologit

[QUOTE No one is perfect, but it can happen. I'm sure Cody, Randy, and Bob have all had the pleasure.[/QUOTE]

Yup.


----------



## Burvol

Work has been great, minus the "Where's my paycheck?" :monkey:
Told my siderod today, need check, or no more workie until pay day. Last time I contracted to this outfit I went 60 days with no pay, no draw. I should have learned my lesson. 
Love the job, but can't live on love.


----------



## RandyMac

Oh, been there too, worked for an old Gypo outta Garberville, nobody would take a check from him, he paid cash at the end of every day.\
I know a guy who can tighten him up for you.


----------



## Burvol

Top of the morning Bob!!! 

You cuttin' logs, skinning cat, or behind the wheel this week?


----------



## Gologit

RandyMac said:


> Oh, been there too, worked for an old Gypo outta Garberville, nobody would take a check from him, he paid cash at the end of every day.\
> I know a guy who can tighten him up for you.



LOL...Or on payday we'd all race each other to the bank because there was never enough money in the payroll account to cash everybody's check. The last guys to the bank were out of luck and none of the local stores would cash them.


----------



## Burvol

RandyMac said:


> Oh, been there too, worked for an old Gypo outta Garberville, nobody would take a check from him, he paid cash at the end of every day.\
> I know a guy who can tighten him up for you.



I give this company all that I got in the tank, everyday. On a mission to build a solid rep here, on top of what I got. I don't think it's cool (as I tear the calisus' off my hands) to short change people when they unload all the firepower they got, every damn day on their job, some days draggin' as back to the crummy, or taking a nap, roadside. Gave it my all!


----------



## Burvol

Gologit said:


> LOL...Or on payday we'd all race each other to the bank because there was never enough money in the payroll account to cash everybody's check. The last guys to the bank were out of luck and none of the local stores would cash them.



Somethings never change, decade to decade.


----------



## Gologit

Burvol said:


> Top of the morning Bob!!!
> 
> You cuttin' logs, skinning cat, or behind the wheel this week?



Probably a lot of the first one, none of the second, with the third choice available if the weather turns sour. 

LOLOL...and I was right about that job I PMd you about being cancelled 'til next year. I got all the landings cut out, the roads all ready, it was all pretty and ready to go...then went back in and water barred everything and shut it down. Sounds like logging to me.


----------



## Gologit

Burvol said:


> I give this company all that I got in the tank, everyday. On a mission to build a solid rep here, on top of what I got. I don't think it's cool (as I tear the calisus' off my hands) to short change people when they unload all the firepower they got, every damn day on their job, some days draggin' as back to the crummy, or taking a nap, roadside. Gave it my all!



Yup. It always amazes me how outfits like that stay in business. But they seem to. There's two like that in our area and they've been around for years. Slow pay, no pay, windy promises of things better a ways down the road and it never happens. Nobody local who knows them will work for them but they keep finding people...mostly exchange students from south of the border.

Those outfits are funny in a way. They never seem to change. One of them called me for a falling job last year and I told them I'd rather peel french fries at Burger King than work for what they paid.. The guy just said "Okay, uh...will you rent us your Cat then?" :bang:

It's always an experience if you meet up with them in the coffee shop, everybody sitting around the big table having breakfast, and watching them trying to be the last ones to pick up the check...or try to walk it entirely. It's kinda like a sport...everybody sneaks out and leaves them with all the breakfast bills whenever we can.


----------



## slowp

I hear those stories. I have to stay out of it. I've been asked by rigging guys if "The Government" can make their employers pay them. The answer is no. Not on timber sales. I've seen complete crew changes weekly. That's an indicator that the logger is not paying the crew. 

Doesn't Tanya Harding live somewhere by you Burvol? I can't find my baseball bat. :greenchainsaw:


----------



## Burvol

slowp said:


> I hear those stories. I have to stay out of it. I've been asked by rigging guys if "The Government" can make their employers pay them. The answer is no. Not on timber sales. I've seen complete crew changes weekly. That's an indicator that the logger is not paying the crew.
> 
> Doesn't Tanya Harding live somewhere by you Burvol? I can't find my baseball bat. :greenchainsaw:



I saw her at a drive thru a few years ago! 

This company isn't too bad for pay scale, just always late during start up. I'm just as in need as them starting out too. The side I am cutting for now is all good guys, a few my age. We're all buddies, I like it. 

I rallied the troops the other day...we're burrying the other side, production wise. They got all the new toys. We got the more used stuff, half the wood, and half the man power and still out produce them. I love it! I cut for both sides, but made it clear I want to be around this side more. Good group of guys that bust ass and we all have fun. The work is steady and good, but the jokes and smart asses are in endless supply :greenchainsaw:


----------



## slowp

OK. I'm heading down there somewhere on Monday. Everybody else is on vacation so I'm filling in. Good thing the pickup has a good music radio! Which reminds me, I better make a run into the office to make sure I have a d-tape in the pickup. Monday morning is not a good time to be looking for a d tape. 

Maybe they'll be on flat ground and in the sun?


----------



## Burvol

slowp said:


> OK. I'm heading down there somewhere on Monday. Everybody else is on vacation so I'm filling in. Good thing the pickup has a good music radio! Which reminds me, I better make a run into the office to make sure I have a d-tape in the pickup. Monday morning is not a good time to be looking for a d tape.
> 
> Maybe they'll be on flat ground and in the sun?



I doubt it  I am up out of Glenwood in this unit, the other one is more westerly. Go by and get a springer for me, I'm assuming you'll be close to Bonneville? This rain will help push them in.


----------



## slowp

Nope. Somewhere up the Lewis River. I turn off at Woodland. It is a helicopter side.


----------



## Burvol

slowp said:


> Nope. Somewhere up the Lewis River. I turn off at Woodland. It is a helicopter side.



Perfect! The Lewis is producing a ton of fish right now! Get on it! That's the old sacred archery Wapiti hunting ground.


----------



## slowp

I'm heading to town so I'll be sure and pick up a bow and arrow set...:greenchainsaw:


----------



## GASoline71

Get a half rack of Coors Light to keep the natives distracted...

Gary


----------



## RandyMac

Companies are a different animal, they always pay ontime, exactly what they owe you. Falling for a big outfit isn't near as much fun as working for a smaller outfit I had my best expiriences working with small 5 to 10 man family based crews, on private lands. However when I was bouncing around the north half of the state I did run across some clunkers, it depended on the timber and how it was logged, whether I stayed or not. Harrison out of Red Bluff, I didn't stay for the pay, I stayed to fall timber. I laid waste to 20 acres of OG Pine and Cedar, on good ground, took me about three weeks. Did I make any money? Some. The old guy took good care of me, a great place to stay, all the food I could eat. This was in the barbarian period, I zig-zaged around looking for anything I could chainsaw into submission, A job like this was heaven. Money wasn't an issue then, I just wanted to thrash the daylights outta the forest, lift the shade off the ground. I'd saw anything, I love to do slashing, prep work, killing brush with a 10-10 with a 28" was good for the maniac. Back to bucks, how much do you think old Ray paid me to be his second saw? $50.00 a day plus expenses, I should have paid him for the expirience, can't put a number on that.
Second shot of Black Lable Rye in progress, Havatampa time.
Did I ever make any money?. Oh yes, there were times when clearing 250-300 a day was possible, rare enough indeed, but possible, mostly about 225.00. Like our lad Burv, I gave everything I had. Were there times with no good jobs? Yep, I fled to the ranch or picked up where I left off with the Forestry, they kept my locker for me, I could show up at 0600 for breakfast, be working by 8.

Time to walk the pups


----------



## Greystoke

Burvol said:


> Today I was going at a steady clip with a little wind. I came to a small (20-22 DBH 2 lengths) Pine with a bunch of rocks/dirt on the uphill side of the side lean. I chose to cut under the lean instead of highstumping. I usually practice it once or twice a week to keep the ability when needed in times like this. I rarely check my far corner in wood this size, no need usually. When your getting close to backing it up all the way, all you have to do is check your sights when they are lined up at what you gunned at, then look at how much wood you have left. That should be the same all the way across. I took my eyes off it and watched the wind blow the top around. I thought I had it sawn up enough when a pretty good gust made it jump. I pulled out and it chaired. Only lost about 6 feet of wood, not too bad. I had a tad shallow of a face for wind. My fault. It's been a while since I chaired a tree. A baby chair it was. I have one hooter under my belt,  LOL. It's been a few years. I just wanted to share some reality with you guys. No one is perfect, but it can happen. I'm sure Cody, Randy, and Bob have all had the pleasure.




Many times pard! I think the worst I ever had was on about a 3 foot pine...I had just went to work for Columbia, an 18 year old greenhorn; barberchaired it about 20 up. It was funny explaining to the forest service lady how it happened. Worst one I ever saw was when I was double-jackin with a guy in humboldt county, he was falling I was bucking. Very windy day with gale force gusts...we shoulda went home. Anyhow, he faced up about a 3 foot red fir, very tall tree, and the wind was rockin it around pretty good, but it started to fall over the face when a huge gust smashed into the front blew it back and it barber chaired backwards:jawdrop: we were both within 15 feet of the stump and in a split second it chaired up about 60 feet and luckily came straight down and did not spin...it landed about a foot from my saw and was way too close to us. We looked at each other, knees knockin and said "lets get the hell outa here". That was a wicked barber chair! I had a friend that got killed by one about that bad in 96; young guy...sad. A guy is always glad when you can experience something without gettin hurt. Take care pard! Thanks for sharing


----------



## Greystoke

RandyMac said:


> Harrison out of Red Bluff, I didn't stay for the pay, I stayed to fall timber. I laid waste to 20 acres of OG Pine and Cedar, on good ground, took me about three weeks. Did I make any money? Some. The old guy took good care of me, a great place to stay, all the food I could eat. This was in the barbarian period, I zig-zaged around looking for anything I could chainsaw into submission, A job like this was heaven. Money wasn't an issue then, I just wanted to thrash the daylights outta the forest, lift the shade off the ground. I'd saw anything, I love to do slashing, prep work, killing brush with a 10-10 with a 28" was good for the maniac. Back to bucks, how much do you think old Ray paid me to be his second saw? $50.00 a day plus expenses, I should have paid him for the expirience, can't put a number on that.



Sounded like a great reason to stay!


----------



## ramirezhenry55

yummy woods! hehe

your wood are in good position I observe. In my place most of this kind of woods are located in very awkward position... :greenchainsaw:


----------



## slowp

GASoline71 said:


> Get a half rack of Coors Light to keep the natives distracted...
> 
> Gary



Around here the preferred beer is Busch Light. That's from my survey and picking up of cans...


----------



## Meadow Beaver

molson, hhhmshhh,mmm


----------



## GASoline71

slowp said:


> Around here the preferred beer is Busch Light. That's from my survey and picking up of cans...



HAHAHA! 

What's the difference between an old squaw and a grizzly bear? 

About 300 pounds and a Coors Light jacket.

Gary


----------



## slowp

Saw NO wildlife. Not even a raven. The creeks (pronounced cricks) were running fast and muddy. No fun today!


----------



## Cedarkerf

What a wet glopy, hail lighting, snowing now, poooring rainin between


----------



## forestryworks

thought I'd keep burvol's thread a-goin'...

a few pics.


----------



## Hddnis

Mr. HE


----------



## Cedarkerf

Nice pic. So where is Jesse hiding lately


----------



## Gologit

Cedarkerf said:


> Nice pic. So where is Jesse hiding lately


 

He might be too busy doing it to be writing about it much. Speaking of which...see ya later. 0 dark-thirty...time to go to work.


----------



## slowp

It is salmon slaying time if you live by a good river, and he does.


----------



## Greystoke

forestryworks said:


> thought I'd keep burvol's thread a-goin'...
> 
> a few pics.



Good job man. You are probably the only guy in Oklahoma using a humboldt  If you decide to go to Afognak, you will have plenty of snags to fall!


----------



## Cedarkerf

Thats a really PNWesty looking saw for the mid west


----------



## Burvol

This kinda deal alot lately 







Block out face. Works great for a few things


----------



## Burvol

Caught two fish this week and picked around 40 pounds of morels.


----------



## forestryworks

Burvol said:


> Caught two fish this week and picked around 40 pounds of morels.



sounds like a good week. and you're still cuttin'


----------



## forestryworks

And on this hardwood... the face closes and pow: this happens.





Heavy head leaner and I thought I was keepin' up with it... It pulled wood out all the way down to a few inches into the ground. Reverse barber chair?


----------



## Greystoke

Burvol said:


> Caught two fish this week and picked around 40 pounds of morels.



Sounds like you have been busy! Nice to see ya on here again


----------



## joesawer

forestryworks said:


> And on this hardwood... the face closes and pow: this happens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Heavy head leaner and I thought I was keepin' up with it... It pulled wood out all the way down to a few inches into the ground. Reverse barber chair?






Nice looking stumps for the most part.
Those dead and decaying trees have a bad reputation for a reason. That tree looks like it had a bad rotten spot below the face that failed when the weight of the tree pressed down on it and then started pulling forward.
Do you have any more pictures or details of the one with a stump failure?


----------



## forestryworks

joesawer said:


> Nice looking stumps for the most part.
> Those dead and decaying trees have a bad reputation for a reason. That tree looks like it had a bad rotten spot below the face that failed when the weight of the tree pressed down on it and then started pulling forward.
> Do you have any more pictures or details of the one with a stump failure?



That's the only picture I got of that tree. It was a walnut or a hickory.

I go back to the same area in the morning... try to get some more shots.


----------



## joesawer

forestryworks said:


> That's the only picture I got of that tree. It was a walnut or a hickory.
> 
> I go back to the same area in the morning... try to get some more shots.






Without seeing the bark, limbs or leaves- I am guessing hickory.
Walnut usually has a very distinct heart wood that is somewhat decay resistant. While hickory will have a very dark heart sometimes on older trees in younger ones it will often be all sap wood. While they are very strong fiberous tree, they tend to decay very fast and they also tend to barber chair because the hinge is so strong in sound wood.


----------



## Gologit

forestryworks said:


> That's the only picture I got of that tree. It was a walnut or a hickory.
> 
> I go back to the same area in the morning... try to get some more shots.



How far did you jump when it popped?


----------



## Gologit

Burvol said:


> Caught two fish this week and picked around 40 pounds of morels.



 Still bringing fish to the GTG?


----------



## forestryworks

Gologit said:


> How far did you jump when it popped?



Haha, I didn't jump too bad. 

It actually all went normal, until a second after the face closed and then it decides to go bonkers. Good thing I had already retreated.

Now I gotta go clean up the top. It threw limbs into the horse camp.


----------



## Burvol

Gologit said:


> Still bringing fish to the GTG?



Got two steelhead. I'm bringing Spring Chinook. They are just about in our tributary of the Columbia. Another week or so. Ya, I look forward to seeing you guys! .....Eating fish, lol


----------



## 056 kid

Well, steelhead season is officially over today, thats ok though, il be puttin some falling pics of my own up here in a few weeks. Work till September then come back to Oregon. Steelhead season opens back up in September, how convenient:greenchainsaw: 

I got 2 "egg wagons" this week haha that chit cracks me up. One was all beat up and the other was a big fat bright native who i allmost whacked on the head befor I saw her adipose fin....


----------



## bitzer

forestryworks said:


> Haha, I didn't jump too bad.
> 
> It actually all went normal, until a second after the face closed and then it decides to go bonkers. Good thing I had already retreated.
> 
> Now I gotta go clean up the top. It threw limbs into the horse camp.



That stump didn't look too bad as far as rot. Hickory loves to chair. Anything with a good amount of head lean and I'm boring behind the hinge first or cutting out the heart. I've seen stumps split to the ground all the way across after the stem leaves on sound trees. Lots of pressure in those heavy fiberous bastards. 


Good Pics tho man!


----------



## forestryworks

056 kid said:


> Well, steelhead season is officially over today, thats ok though, il be puttin some falling pics of my own up here in a few weeks. Work till September then come back to Oregon. Steelhead season opens back up in September, how convenient:greenchainsaw:
> 
> I got 2 "egg wagons" this week haha that chit cracks me up. One was all beat up and the other was a big fat bright native who i allmost whacked on the head befor I saw her adipose fin....



be sure to get some pics of those yellow-poplars.


----------



## Cedarkerf

*Give me your worst*

Ok leaning Red Alder 30"+ Heavy head lean asmany know Red Alder is notorius for barber chairing,slabing ,splitting, and out right exploding on a stump when leaning. Dropping it for a friend whos gonna build a house on this acreage so picked convienant stump height as stumps will be pulled by contractor. Yes there is a small taperd dutchman not by design coulda cleaned that out widest part was on the side lean stem side figured it wouldnt hurt.
Not at all as pretty as the other stumps on here give me your worst.

2 of the stems lean tword the camera almost equel to the side lean of the one on the right. The middle stem has an intermediate lean twords the camera and the back stem is about veritcal.






The main stem leans twords the camera as well.





The undercut pics grainy because mntngal was a long ways away with a telephoto lense.





The resulting stump after making two angled cuts and the straight back cut to reduce its chance of barber chairing or splitting. No hints of splitting or slabbing whatsoever.


----------



## 056 kid

forestryworks said:


> be sure to get some pics of those yellow-poplars.



You bet!! I am going to try and get some video action too. Looks like you are getting to have some fun and sharpen your skills, good! Sorry I never got back to you on your message, tax woes make me wanna do noting but fish and smoke weed, o yea and be an ass hole too haha. Im fine now though..


----------



## forestryworks

056 kid said:


> You bet!! I am going to try and get some video action too. Looks like you are getting to have some fun and sharpen your skills, good! Sorry I never got back to you on your message, tax woes make me wanna do noting but fish and smoke weed, o yea and be an ass hole too haha. Im fine now though..



Hell I forgot what I sent to ya. Must not have been important


----------



## Gologit

Cedarkerf said:


> Ok leaning Red Alder 30"+ Heavy head lean asmany know Red Alder is notorius for barber chairing,slabing ,splitting, and out right exploding on a stump when leaning. Dropping it for a friend whos gonna build a house on this acreage so picked convienant stump height as stumps will be pulled by contractor. Yes there is a small taperd dutchman not by design coulda cleaned that out widest part was on the side lean stem side figured it wouldnt hurt.
> Not at all as pretty as the other stumps on here give me your worst.



I've seen worse. :greenchainsaw: I'm not saying where, though.


----------



## tramp bushler

the guy that broke me in would say " I aint never seen a stump on a log truck yet !!!"


----------



## Hddnis

I like that this thread is still going, it is one of the best.

Here is my contribution, a snag that was by my wood pile. I dropped it into the wind that was gusting to about 15mph. As you can see there is about three inches of punky rotten wood. Took a bit of wedge pounding to get it clear of the two trees it was between.

Used a tired old Stihl 034 I recently put new seals in. Compression is 135psi it is wearing a 24" Oregon bar and Stihl chain. It needs rings and a carb kit, but cut fine today and runs well enough that I didn't worry about felling with it. 







Down she went.





Sloped stump.





Limbed up and ready to buck into firewood.






Mr. HE


----------



## forestryworks

today was crappy stump day.

i think my bar got tweaked ever so slightly.

5 out of 10 stumps would make you guys wince.

I'll get a pic of one or two tomorrow. Now it's time to go find out why this thing is binding up bad and cuttin' like a snake.


----------



## forestryworks

Hddnis said:


> I like that this thread is still going, it is one of the best.
> 
> Here is my contribution, a snag that was by my wood pile. I dropped it into the wind that was gusting to about 15mph. As you can see there is about three inches of punky rotten wood. Took a bit of wedge pounding to get it clear of the two trees it was between.
> 
> Used a tired old Stihl 034 I recently put new seals in. Compression is 135psi it is wearing a 24" Oregon bar and Stihl chain. It needs rings and a carb kit, but cut fine today and runs well enough that I didn't worry about felling with it.
> 
> Mr. HE



Looks good. Don't pound too hard on those snags though. Hit and look up. You did good though.


----------



## Hddnis

forestryworks said:


> Looks good. Don't pound too hard on those snags though. Hit and look up. You did good though.




Yah, this one was shooting back for sure, but wedges was the best way for this tree. When it started going over it was raining branches, like they always do, this one really didn't stand out in that regard. I had two really good escape paths set up and I just backed down the easiest one and watched it crash, that was a good show!

I had sounded the tree to get a feel for the base and I thought I had better wood on the back so I put my face in a little deeper so the hinge would have good wood. Turned out the back was just as punky, but it was dry and so that is what threw me off. I left the hinge good and thick because of the wind and wedging to get it free.




Mr. HE


----------



## 056 kid

forestryworks said:


> today was crappy stump day.
> 
> i think my bar got tweaked ever so slightly.
> 
> 5 out of 10 stumps would make you guys wince.
> 
> I'll get a pic of one or two tomorrow. Now it's time to go find out why this thing is binding up bad and cuttin' like a snake.



if the cuts match and wood is holding where it needs to be holding, you are in buisness!

Getting things level just takes time, I still have a hard time sometimes. I have nocitec that a longer bar makes it easier to keep it level.


----------



## GASoline71

You'se guys are lucky with the Steelhead rivers down there in Orygun... the WDFW shut most of the good rivers down for Steelhead back in the middle of February...

Bastids... :censored:

Gary


----------



## forestryworks

056 kid said:


> if the cuts match and wood is holding where it needs to be holding, you are in buisness!
> 
> Getting things level just takes time, I still have a hard time sometimes. I have nocitec that a longer bar makes it easier to keep it level.



This is driving me nuts. There's no bend in the bar anywhere that I can see. No uneven rails. No bad drive links.

I'm puttin' on a new rim sprocket and a new chain and we'll see what tomorrow brings if the rain ain't dumping.


----------



## 056 kid

Probably a chain issue, spend some time making all the teeth look alike & see what you get. Or if a regular fileing makes it worse..


----------



## RandyMac

I would replace everything at the same time, bar included. You could jack up the fuel cap and slide a new chainsaw under it. 346XP?
Getting cuts even takes work, lots of practice, it looks to me that you are on the right track. Bar length will make a difference in perception and balance, use of a spotter can help you get the "picture" of what level looks like.


----------



## GASoline71

Are you comin' up short? Or missing long on the cut?

Gary


----------



## hammerlogging

forestryworks said:


> This is driving me nuts. There's no bend in the bar anywhere that I can see. No uneven rails. No bad drive links.
> 
> I'm puttin' on a new rim sprocket and a new chain and we'll see what tomorrow brings if the rain ain't dumping.



I'm thinking the rails are wore out- widened. And I've never had rails mashed back in to form last more than half a day. But, flip the bar and it might get you by. 

Have fun tomorrow, I hope the cutting is smoother, sure makes it better!


----------



## Gologit

forestryworks said:


> This is driving me nuts. There's no bend in the bar anywhere that I can see. No uneven rails. No bad drive links.
> 
> I'm puttin' on a new rim sprocket and a new chain and we'll see what tomorrow brings if the rain ain't dumping.



If you're feeling brave you might take some video, post it on here, and let everybody critique it. Sometimes not hitting your cuts is as simple as just standing wrong or getting in a little too much of a hurry. And, for what it's worth, nobody makes a perfect cut every time...I know this first hand. In smaller wood like you're cutting, where your cuts aren't huge, a slightly tweaked bar probably wouldn't matter much.

Stay after it.


----------



## forestryworks

GASoline71 said:


> Are you comin' up short? Or missing long on the cut?
> 
> Gary



Sometimes both. It binds up bad once I'm full bar width in. Backing it up or facing it up, it sweeps up or down... those last 5 snags it was a pain in the ass to keep things square and level.



RandyMac said:


> I would replace everything at the same time, bar included.



That's my plan. The State is springing for a new bar and chain.



hammerlogging said:


> I'm thinking the rails are wore out- widened. And I've never had rails mashed back in to form last more than half a day. But, flip the bar and it might get you by.



I think they may be. The chain seems to be riding really low on the rails.



> *Have fun tomorrow, I hope the cutting is smoother, sure makes it better!*



Thank ya sir.


----------



## RandyMac

Crouching down to keep a low stump height will throw you off, that is why I left waist high stumps. I might kneel before God, but not a tree.


----------



## GASoline71

I was always going long... so I just angled up the saw more and more... this is on the second cut on a Humboldt face when sweeping up to hit the other side.

Gary


----------



## tramp bushler

forestryworks said:


> today was crappy stump day.
> 
> i think my bar got tweaked ever so slightly.
> 
> 5 out of 10 stumps would make you guys wince.
> 
> I'll get a pic of one or two tomorrow. Now it's time to go find out why this thing is binding up bad and cuttin' like a snake.


. 

. You may have a burr on one side of the bar rails . . or a very wore out bar . which can happen sometimes way faster than others . . the other 2 options are one side of the cutters is a bit dull or one side of the riders is lower than the other. .. Bar burrs is and or a shot bar are the most common causes of cutting crooked ....... Do you have a rail closer / roller??


----------



## madhatte

RandyMac said:


> Crouching down to keep a low stump height will throw you off, that is why I left waist high stumps.



My mileage has been exactly the opposite. I find that if I'm down on one knee, it's easier and more natural to keep an eye on the top of the tree, and also easier to launch myself in the direction of escape if need be. Plus, I can use the length of my legs to push my body around to look around the tree rather than walking around it. Mind you, I have never cut for scale, so there's no compelling reason for me not to leave a high stump. I just like my posture better when I'm crouched and ready to move.


----------



## tramp bushler

RandyMac said:


> Crouching down to keep a low stump height will throw you off, that is why I left waist high stumps. I might kneel before God, but not a tree.


.



. AWESOME !!!!!!!!..
.
. I have the same problem with real low stumps ... The old saying , " fall em where its comfortable " makes it the easiest to hit a lay every time ......
One reason it is alot of work learning how to use spring boards right ... Getting them at the right height and the right level is a real skill .....


----------



## forestryworks

Did some standing on the bar and bending and cussing in the kitchen this morning. Got it as straight as I can. Cutting went smooth today.

Put in a new rim sprocket and a different chain.

Got 10 snags down today no sweat. My folks came up to visit and my dad got some pics of me cutting. I will post those here in a bit.

Before pic posting, I wanted to say thanks to you guys  The knowledge base here is quietly monumental.

And Bob, just saw your post. I think that is a good idea. I could use a few applauses and a few tomatoes thrown at me


----------



## forestryworks

Me and my brother standing by the second largest shortleaf pine in OK. 4ft. in diameter.

First tree of the day









This was the first time my dad had seen what I do as far as my volunteer work goes. He enjoyed it and got a little exercise out of it. Not bad for a pharmacist using a camera phone 
I think he forgot to save a few pics though.


----------



## forestryworks

One of three roadside hazards we did today. The road 
is off to the right of the pic about 20ft.


----------



## forestryworks




----------



## forestryworks




----------



## RandyMac

You are doing good, run a little further away though. Did the butt hit that rock? There are ways to get the butt to roll off rocks and stumps.
Who ever took the pics did a great job.


----------



## forestryworks

RandyMac said:


> You are doing good, run a little further away though. Did the butt hit that rock? There are ways to get the butt to roll off rocks and stumps.
> Who ever took the pics did a great job.



the butt hit the rock and slid straight ahead into the lay before rolling a few feet down the hill to the next few trees. i had two escape routes for that tree, uphill and downhill. i went downhill and away behind a tree.

although in hindsight i could have cut on the uphill side just as well, but there were more rocks to scramble over.

thanks for your words.


----------



## schmuck.k

looks good to me! but i dont know squat i am still learing


----------



## forestryworks

schmuck.k said:


> looks good to me! but i dont know squat i am still learing



thank ya.

hell i still got alot to learn.


----------



## RandyMac

Heck we are all still learning. It's good to hear someone say that though.


----------



## madhatte

Day I think I'm done learning is the day something I already "know" kills me.


----------



## fmaglin

madhatte said:


> Day I think I'm done learning is the day something I already "know" kills me.


Yup:agree2:


----------



## mile9socounty

Nice photo's Forestry. I tried reppin ya but well. The darned thing won't let me. Keep saying I gotta spread my seeds other places. Keep up the good work man.


----------



## forestryworks

mile9socounty said:


> Nice photo's Forestry. I tried reppin ya but well. The darned thing won't let me. Keep saying I gotta spread my seeds other places. Keep up the good work man.



Tried reppin' ya as well, but I'm out. 

Thanks for the good word.


----------



## Greystoke

Good job Jameson Looks like you have good mechanics ie: matching up your face cuts and back cuts. Keep it up pardner!


----------



## GASoline71

Imma likin' it! Nice job mang!

Gary


----------



## slowp

You look relaxed, so I think you are doing fine. But I'm not a cutter. I have just been around them a lot.


----------



## tramp bushler

*Boy is that ever true !*



madhatte said:


> Day I think I'm done learning is the day something I already "know" kills me.


.

Great pics ... You didn,t fall the 2nd largest tree in Ok. did u ...????? Your camera man did great also .. Are the stumps going to be pulled .??. It is generally best to get in the clear up and back .. but with nice open solid ground like that and you are young so you can zoom around you look like you were fine .. but , and this varies with tree size , and isn,t absolute . . The death zone is within 15 feet of the stump . . John Clark , a guy I busheled next to in Tolstoy Bay got killed within 15 feet on the stump .Cuttin in Wash. state .. Lots of other guys have also . My partner got his legs broke once and crushed the next time within 15ft. .. In big and tall timber the zone goes out to 25 feet ....... Just something to keep in mind .... Your stumps look very good ..


----------



## forestryworks

tramp bushler said:


> .
> 
> Great pics ... You didn,t fall the 2nd largest tree in Ok. did u ...????? Your camera man did great also .. Are the stumps going to be pulled .??. It is generally best to get in the clear up and back .. but with nice open solid ground like that and you are young so you can zoom around you look like you were fine .. but , and this varies with tree size , and isn,t absolute . . The death zone is within 15 feet of the stump . . John Clark , a guy I busheled next to in Tolstoy Bay got killed within 15 feet on the stump .Cuttin in Wash. state .. Lots of other guys have also . My partner got his legs broke once and crushed the next time within 15ft. .. In big and tall timber the zone goes out to 25 feet ....... Just something to keep in mind .... Your stumps look very good ..



Nope didn't cut it, just posed by it with my brother.

The stumps will be left. This is more of a cut and run deal.


----------



## RandyMac

The stump height on the tree behind the rock, is perfect, the results from a low stump there would have been noisy.


----------



## slowp

*A Nice Surprise!*

I restarted cleaning out a road so the helicopter loggers will not scratch up their nice pickups. Sneezing a bit too, because the alder is pollinating. 







I found this. A nice little horn. I haven't found the other one. That's how it goes.


----------



## bitzer

Great Pics Forestry!



Had a rough day at the office today. Snag baggin. Hung one up pretty bad this afternoon. I tried to get this one to walk with a stepping dutch, but the two extra kirf cuts below the gunning kirf weren't enough to keep it moving. That and maybe a little limb lock on the way around, stopped it dead. Maybe two more kirf cuts below that would have done it. I've swung them this bad before and I wish I would have started taking pics at the begining of my debacle, but about halfway through I figured already wasting time mght as well snap some pics. 







You can just see the stump to the right. I kicked the first butt log down the hill. 










Coming around the Corner.


----------



## forestryworks

slowp said:


> I restarted cleaning out a road so the helicopter loggers will not scratch up their nice pickups. Sneezing a bit too, because the alder is pollinating.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I found this. A nice little horn. I haven't found the other one. That's how it goes.



nice find, slowp


----------



## bitzer

Heres the rest of them. This tree was a real dandy. About 30 ft up it split into five main beams and they hung and rolled around in the softwoods along that line. The damn thing would not lose its grip. Just had to go limb by limb pretty much and got showered with dead branches as each went until I cold push them by hand. Just kept stepping them down. 






The mess I get to clean up later. 





About an hour and two tanks later, a chain change and a few adrenaline rushes the top is pointing back at the stump. Not exactly an ideal way to end the day, but I'm still pumped full of piss and vinegar!





At least I saved out the softies! That was the goal anyway. They are no worse for the wear. My snag was nearly to the top of the tallest one and it was hung in all four of those plus a cedar off to the right out of the pic. And I was feeling like a hot shot today. Ha. ha.


----------



## forestryworks

Did a trail hazard today. 75ft tall and the trail was 60ft away and of course it leaned for the trail. The nastiest snag I've cut so far.

On the last picture you can just make out the trail if you follow the snag to the first break and then as it zig zags and straightens for the trail. It was all mush up there. I passed it up twice before and spent 30 min. studying it today. No wind and no hikers so I cut it.

I didn't even think twice about wedging it. At first I wanted to cripple it on the stump and let it go where it leaned, but that would have hung it up.


----------



## mile9socounty

Nice photos brother! Keep them coming!


----------



## tramp bushler

Blitzer . u got the bear today . ..He didn,t get u .. thats a good thing ..... Forestry ; that is one screwed up looking snag . Looks like u did great ..!


----------



## Burvol

Lindsey is in the hospital, have worked 9 weeks, been paid for 1.5, and my clutch just went out. My Dad is towing me to the shop where I am going to spend a few days putting a new one in, and rear main seal. Things have been kinda rough here the last month. Just checking in with ya, keeping the chin up. Be good! - Burv


----------



## Jacob J.

forestryworks said:


> I didn't even think twice about wedging it. At first I wanted to cripple it on the stump and let it go where it leaned, but that would have hung it up.



Jameson- Looks great man. Your technique continues to improve. 



Burvol said:


> Lindsey is in the hospital, have worked 9 weeks, been paid for 1.5, and my clutch just went out. My Dad is towing me to the shop where I am going to spend a few days putting a new one in, and rear main seal. Things have been kinda rough here the last month. Just checking in with ya, keeping the chin up. Be good! - Burv



Hey J-

Sorry to hear about the rough patch. I think the tides about to turn so good things are around the corner. Are you going to be able to sign up for fires this year? I gotsa torque-monster 395 here for when you get back into some decent wood.


----------



## RandyMac

Just keep stompin' around Burv, that mud hole will dry up.


----------



## Greystoke

Burvol said:


> Lindsey is in the hospital, have worked 9 weeks, been paid for 1.5, and my clutch just went out. My Dad is towing me to the shop where I am going to spend a few days putting a new one in, and rear main seal. Things have been kinda rough here the last month. Just checking in with ya, keeping the chin up. Be good! - Burv



Sorry to hear about your bad run of luck Burv. Hang in there man!


----------



## forestryworks

Burvol said:


> Lindsey is in the hospital, have worked 9 weeks, been paid for 1.5, and my clutch just went out. My Dad is towing me to the shop where I am going to spend a few days putting a new one in, and rear main seal. Things have been kinda rough here the last month. Just checking in with ya, keeping the chin up. Be good! - Burv



Staying positive is a good attitude to have.

Keep us posted.


----------



## slowp

Holler if you need anything...


----------



## Gologit

I won't be using the 660 for awhile. If you need it let me know.


----------



## coastalfaller

Burvol said:


> Lindsey is in the hospital, have worked 9 weeks, been paid for 1.5, and my clutch just went out. My Dad is towing me to the shop where I am going to spend a few days putting a new one in, and rear main seal. Things have been kinda rough here the last month. Just checking in with ya, keeping the chin up. Be good! - Burv



Hey Burv,

Sorry to hear about your run of bad luck. It seems to be contagious. I hope things pick up for you. I agree with Jacob, I think we're about to turn the corner too. Keep on keeping your chin up.


----------



## hammerlogging

best wishes to all and thanks to all the great individuals who share here.


----------



## coastalfaller

hammerlogging said:


> best wishes to all and thanks to all the great individuals who share here.



:agree2:


----------



## Metals406

Sorry to hear it Burv. . . I'll be praying for you!


----------



## joesawer

Burvol said:


> Lindsey is in the hospital, have worked 9 weeks, been paid for 1.5, and my clutch just went out. My Dad is towing me to the shop where I am going to spend a few days putting a new one in, and rear main seal. Things have been kinda rough here the last month. Just checking in with ya, keeping the chin up. Be good! - Burv



:censored::chainsawguy:

Cutting trees for free stops being fun after the first week!!!
I feel for ya. I hope Lindsey gets gets better soon and somebody comes up with some money for you sooner!


----------



## joesawer

forestryworks said:


> Did a trail hazard today. 75ft tall and the trail was 60ft away and of course it leaned for the trail. The nastiest snag I've cut so far.
> 
> On the last picture you can just make out the trail if you follow the snag to the first break and then as it zig zags and straightens for the trail. It was all mush up there. I passed it up twice before and spent 30 min. studying it today. No wind and no hikers so I cut it.
> 
> I didn't even think twice about wedging it. At first I wanted to cripple it on the stump and let it go where it leaned, but that would have hung it up.





You found a little bone in the middle of that one. 
Good work.


----------



## 056 kid




----------



## forestryworks

056 kid said:


>



You back east and cuttin' now? Looks like a nice area to work in.


----------



## slowp

*More Alders in the Road*

I used a 2 saw method. 
Hey, I just see what I did with my gloves!




I used the manually operated pole saw to take the tops off. I think this was unnecessary, but thought I'd try it out.




For the stumpologists..




The Alder Arches are gone. Antennae will now be safe.:greenchainsaw:


----------



## bitzer

I hope things get back in order for you quick Burvol!


----------



## bitzer

056 kid said:


>



Nice pics Kid! Looks like hickory country. You put that little block in there to kick if off to the right? How do you like the new 660?


----------



## redprospector

Burvol said:


> Lindsey is in the hospital, have worked 9 weeks, been paid for 1.5, and my clutch just went out. My Dad is towing me to the shop where I am going to spend a few days putting a new one in, and rear main seal. Things have been kinda rough here the last month. Just checking in with ya, keeping the chin up. Be good! - Burv



Hang in there Burv, you ain't the only one in this boat. 
I spent 9 weeks off durring my wife's recovery from surgery, and the complications that followed. (You can sure get out of shape doing the wifes job for 9 weeks. She works hard, just dosen't do it for keeping you in shape).
Got back to work and had to spend $2000 on a tractor the first week in, now after another $1200 in diesel the guy say's it may be a while before he can pay me. 
Oh well, I'm sure things will get better for us both. 

Andy


----------



## 056 kid

bitzercreek1 said:


> Nice pics Kid! Looks like hickory country. You put that little block in there to kick if off to the right? How do you like the new 660?



Some hickory, mostly poplar and red oak.

Waiting on my boots, hat, saw, and other work junk to get here still, until then I have to suffer with what I got. Didnt get the saw im using cutting right till this afternoon. that little block is actually where I over cut on the far side, I had a rough first day back. . . I cut a nice red oak today but ran out of batteries before I cut it, il get some pics on monday. As soon as I get my saw, i got another red thats gonna need a 36'' bar so Im told, i havent walked up to it, but its big, lay down on the stump big. Its on a rock bluff so its gonna need a spring board to get it faced. I am excited for sure..


----------



## forestryworks

056 kid said:


> Some hickory, mostly poplar and red oak.
> 
> Waiting on my boots, hat, saw, and other work junk to get here still, until then I have to suffer with what I got. Didnt get the saw im using cutting right till this afternoon. that little block is actually where I over cut on the far side, I had a rough first day back. . . I cut a nice red oak today but ran out of batteries before I cut it, il get some pics on monday. As soon as I get my saw, i got another red thats gonna need a 36'' bar so Im told, i havent walked up to it, but its big, lay down on the stump big. Its on a rock bluff so its gonna need a sproing board to get it faced. I am excited for sure..



Don't tumble backwards off that springboard.

Looks like we're all having a rough week this week.

I had my worst day in the last month I've been cutting. Everything that could go wrong did go wrong and I eked my way through 10 snags before calling it a day.

Hope everyone has a better week and month ahead of them


----------



## RandyMac

Sproing?

Hey KID!!
do ya know how to hang a board?

I had these loaded up already, photographic proof, yes I ran a Stihl.

Red Fir


----------



## 056 kid

RandyMac said:


> Sproing?
> 
> Hey KID!!
> do ya know how to hang a board?
> 
> I had these loaded up already, photographic proof, yes I ran a Stihl.
> 
> Red Fir



ive stuck flattened saplings in the stump to get a few feet up. I just wedge the board and make a notch about 10'' deep and shove it in there, havent fallen yet but this time its gonna be alittle higher I think. Got any pointers?


----------



## forestryworks

RandyMac said:


> Sproing?



Sproing is the word of the day


----------



## 056 kid




----------



## forestryworks

you gettin' any flak for the humboldt over there?

Looks good!


----------



## RandyMac

056 kid said:


> ive stuck flattened saplings in the stump to get a few feet up. I just wedge the board and make a notch about 10'' deep and shove it in there, havent fallen yet but this time its gonna be alittle higher I think. Got any pointers?



Use real boards, for the drivers, go hand pick 3-4 OG Doug Fir 2X6s, maybe 4 feet long, put a slight taper on the edges at one end. 10" in is ok. Real ones have a metal plate, don't really need for only some use. you should have to pound them in just a bit. The spring boards themselves can be 2X8 or 2X12.
On those downhill falls, a steeper angle on the face is indicated, it does look like you have a firm grip on things.


----------



## John Ellison

I like to make the boards, then mark the thickness where you're gonna put the notch. About a half inch thicker than the board and you can wedge them up tight so they feel solid. Just takes a few minutes after you have done it a few times.


----------



## forestryworks

John Ellison said:


> I like to make the boards, then mark the thickness where you're gonna put the notch. About a half inch thicker than the board and you can wedge them up tight so they feel solid. Just takes a few minutes after you have done it a few times.



Looks good John.

There sure is lots of shortleaf pine in Arkansas.


----------



## stihl sawing

Burvol said:


> Lindsey is in the hospital, have worked 9 weeks, been paid for 1.5, and my clutch just went out. My Dad is towing me to the shop where I am going to spend a few days putting a new one in, and rear main seal. Things have been kinda rough here the last month. Just checking in with ya, keeping the chin up. Be good! - Burv


Hang in there, things will get better. Hope everythings goes your way and gets better. Seems like when one bad thing happens, more follow closely.


----------



## bitzer

Good lookin pics Kid! I'll bet your happy to be runnin a saw again! Whats the timber being used for? Some of that stuff on the landing looks like what I usually play with. 



All this spring board talk is gettin me thinking. Not that I'd need them often, but good to know.


----------



## Greystoke

056 kid said:


>



Looks good pardner!


----------



## Greystoke

John Ellison said:


> I like to make the boards, then mark the thickness where you're gonna put the notch. About a half inch thicker than the board and you can wedge them up tight so they feel solid. Just takes a few minutes after you have done it a few times.



Good springboard advice. Is that in arkansas? Probably springboarded a lot more trees in Southeast AK?


----------



## fmaglin

Burvol said:


> Lindsey is in the hospital, have worked 9 weeks, been paid for 1.5, and my clutch just went out. My Dad is towing me to the shop where I am going to spend a few days putting a new one in, and rear main seal. Things have been kinda rough here the last month. Just checking in with ya, keeping the chin up. Be good! - Burv


Hang in there Burv. Seems like we all have to experience lows along with the highs. I think Cody says it best with the remark he has in the bottom of his postss where it says "Tough times never last, but tough people do". Later man.


----------



## fmaglin

056 kid said:


>



Hey 056, where are you cuttin? Is that WVA, or VA?


----------



## 056 kid

Its in bedford county VA. About 35 minutes from home!! I LOVE when the job is close !! the logs are going to be sawed or peeled. the wood goes to Covington. I am happy to be back home and sweating, my hands have metal in them, my body aches, I am dog tired, & I allredy have a rash on my arm(poisen ivy). But with money in my pocket, I could not ask for anything more, we are just some crazy dudes i guess haha.


----------



## coastalfaller

*Wake up call*

Well we just laid to rest one of my best guys yesterday. 28 years old. He was one of the safest, most productive fallers you could ever meet. One of the happiest guys I've ever know too. Never saw him in a bad mood. And he flat out loved to fall timber. He was working for a buddy on his two weeks off from camp and got tagged by the top of a fir snag. The falling world truly lost one of it's best.


----------



## forestryworks

coastalfaller said:


> Well we just laid to rest one of my best guys yesterday. 28 years old. He was one of the safest, most productive fallers you could ever meet. One of the happiest guys I've ever know too. Never saw him in a bad mood. And he flat out loved to fall timber. He was working for a buddy on his two weeks off from camp and got tagged by the top of a fir snag. The falling world truly lost one of it's best.



Damn, that's a tough loss. My condolences to you and his family.


----------



## Metals406

coastalfaller said:


> Well we just laid to rest one of my best guys yesterday. 28 years old. He was one of the safest, most productive fallers you could ever meet. One of the happiest guys I've ever know too. Never saw him in a bad mood. And he flat out loved to fall timber. He was working for a buddy on his two weeks off from camp and got tagged by the top of a fir snag. The falling world truly lost one of it's best.



Man, that stinks.

Pass my condolences on to his family if you're able.

It took my cousin, John, 25 years of timber falling before he was seriously injured. . . The worst part was it wasn't even timber falling. He was bumping knots and cutting off snipe on the deck, and the yarder operator dropped a Maki Carriage on him.


----------



## Jacob J.

Metals406 said:


> Man, that stinks.
> 
> Pass my condolences on to his family if you're able.
> 
> It took my cousin, John, 25 years of timber falling before he was seriously injured. . . The worst part was it wasn't even timber falling. He was bumping knots and cutting off snipe on the deck, and the yarder operator dropped a Maki Carriage on him.



It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when.


----------



## floyd

Most say if you been at it 7yr it's time.


----------



## Metals406

Jacob J. said:


> It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when.



Yup. . . Same goes for everything I reckon. When I first started framing houses and commercial buildings, the older carpenters would tell me that a nail will eventually find flesh -- unfortunately they were right.

Sounds like the kid passed-on doing something he loved, which is the way I would like to exit stage left.


----------



## fmaglin

056 kid said:


> Its in bedford county VA. About 35 minutes from home!! I LOVE when the job is close !! the logs are going to be sawed or peeled. the wood goes to Covington. I am happy to be back home and sweating, my hands have metal in them, my body aches, I am dog tired, & I allredy have a rash on my arm(poisen ivy). But with money in my pocket, I could not ask for anything more, we are just some crazy dudes i guess haha.


:agree2:


----------



## Gologit

coastalfaller said:


> Well we just laid to rest one of my best guys yesterday. 28 years old. He was one of the safest, most productive fallers you could ever meet. One of the happiest guys I've ever know too. Never saw him in a bad mood. And he flat out loved to fall timber. He was working for a buddy on his two weeks off from camp and got tagged by the top of a fir snag. The falling world truly lost one of it's best.



Sorry.


----------



## RandyMac

'Coastal, can you tell us his name? I think a proper salute is in order, how 'bout we have a shot of something in his honor, then have another for all our lost friends.
The sheer randomness of such an event, could have been anybody, yet it took the best.


----------



## hammerlogging

Gologit said:


> Sorry.



me too. peace bro.


----------



## schmuck.k

RandyMac said:


> 'Coastal, can you tell us his name? I think a proper salute is in order, how 'bout we have a shot of something in his honor, then have another for all our lost friends.
> The sheer randomness of such an event, could have been anybody, yet it took the best.



:agree2: i give condolences to you and his family


----------



## stihl sawing

Gologit said:


> Sorry.





schmuck.k said:


> :agree2: i give condolences to you and his family


 Same here, Very sad news and always a tragedy when a life is lost. My thoughts and prayers go out to you Coastal.


----------



## fmaglin

Sorry to hear such devastating news. Condolences to you and all family members.


----------



## bitzer

Coastal- thats too bad. My condolences to his family. 

It is just a matter of when, for all of us. Just gotta keep livin right and make sure you're all squared away for when the time comes.


----------



## Greystoke

coastalfaller said:


> Well we just laid to rest one of my best guys yesterday. 28 years old. He was one of the safest, most productive fallers you could ever meet. One of the happiest guys I've ever know too. Never saw him in a bad mood. And he flat out loved to fall timber. He was working for a buddy on his two weeks off from camp and got tagged by the top of a fir snag. The falling world truly lost one of it's best.



Sorry to hear that pard...my condolences.


----------



## Hddnis

Very sad to hear. May he rest in peace and may God comfort his family and friends.



Mr. HE


----------



## coastalfaller

RandyMac said:


> 'Coastal, can you tell us his name? I think a proper salute is in order, how 'bout we have a shot of something in his honor, then have another for all our lost friends.
> The sheer randomness of such an event, could have been anybody, yet it took the best.



Absolutely, we've all been saluting him. His name is Charlie Engelbert.


----------



## RandyMac

coastalfaller said:


> Absolutely, we've all been saluting him. His name is Charlie Engelbert.



When the sun is set, I will salute him again.


----------



## Gologit

RandyMac said:


> When the sun is set, I will salute him again.



Yup...+1


----------



## Greystoke

Gologit said:


> Yup...+1



Count me in.


----------



## dancan

I'm tipping one now in the east coast looking west .

Rest well Charlie Engelbert .


----------



## mdavlee

Sorry for the loss.


----------



## schmuck.k

tarzanstree said:


> Count me in.



same here


----------



## Jacob J.

RandyMac said:


> When the sun is set, I will salute him again.



My old man put many good friends in the ground that he'd logged with. He had something to say at the services that was always appropriate. It went something like this:

We're here to remember Charlie.

He ran up and down the hills like a spring buck.

He was ornery, and liked his whiskey.

He didn't mind when I put axle grease on the door handle of his truck.

He was stout and a great guy to have around.

Yep, Charlie was a good old boy, but he's gone now.


----------



## hammerlogging

hammerlogging said:


> BURV, nice wood dude.
> 
> We have been merchandising the tallest poplars ever off the heli unit from last winter, 85' to 10" or 12" tops.



I was just entertaining myself looking through old photos in here and ran across this.

Note to self. Just cause the helicopter can fly them doesn't mean you shouldn't shorten them. Lets just say they're a ##### on the landing for the track loader to maneuver as we merchandise!

Won't happen again, sir. Just used 800 bf as a max, wasn't thinkning about landing work or length, just loving every ####IN' MINUTE of that killer falling!
Man that was the timber.

Still cutting a little ,but mostly merchandising that old wood before we really get back at it. pm'ed ya burv before your last post. Glad things are better


----------



## coastalfaller

Burvol said:


> Thanks for the kind words from all. Lindsey is home, resting the best her poor tired, little self can. My truck is done, rips. Got the next piece lined out, hammerin' it out like we do on Monday.
> 
> 
> Jordon,
> Brother, I am sorry. I have lost a couple very dear to me like that. I was called nuts by many for starting my falling career after the couple I know got killed. I love falling timber more than anything. Anything period. If I die, so be it. I was meant to be this guy. I have a feeling Charlie was the same way. He had a life wish, not a death wish in his falling. God rest his soul. Hope your crew heals as well.



Hey Burv,

You're absolutely right about Charlie, he just plain loved to fall timber. He was falling on his time off even, not for money, because he loved it. I hear you on the nuts part. I lost my Dad the same damn way. 

I'm really concentrating on keeping my crew's head in the game right now. I'm fearful of that. Charlie was a large part of them.

Thanks to all for the kind words, I will pass them on to his family.


----------



## coastalfaller

coastalfaller said:


> Hey Burv,
> 
> You're absolutely right about Charlie, he just plain loved to fall timber. He was falling on his time off even, not for money, because he loved it. I hear you on the nuts part. I lost my Dad the same damn way.
> 
> I'm really concentrating on keeping my crew's head in the game right now. I'm fearful of that. Charlie was a large part of them.
> 
> Thanks to all for the kind words, I will pass them on to his family.



I'm glad to hear things are turning for you, Burv, here's to keeping it going that way.


----------



## mdavlee

Burvol said:


> Thanks for the kind words from all. Lindsey is home, resting the best her poor tired, little self can. My truck is done, rips. Got the next piece lined out, hammerin' it out like we do on Monday. QUOTE]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Glad things are turning around for you.


----------



## 056 kid

Its strange how good folks pay with their lives, while trash can exist and exits and exist. . . I am really sorry to hear about that fella, it makes me careful when i hear about this kinda stuff though!


----------



## mdavlee

Good pictures 056. You been using the new 660 any?


----------



## 056 kid

Nope it came in the mail today..


----------



## forestryworks

nice block face, Ted. Nice oaks too.


----------



## hammerlogging

056 kid said:


> Nope it came in the mail today..




that'll be nice eh? First time it rolls down the hill on you don't wince too tight, remmeber it'll look like hell in a few months anyhow.

Enjoy!


----------



## mdavlee

Well atleast it got there. Those look like some good sized trees.


----------



## bitzer

Good pics Kid! Man I'll bet your itchin to put that 660 to work! How did that big red go you were talking about the other day?


----------



## 056 kid

Havent cut her yet. Its the one in the first picture of one of the bunches that i put up. im gonna see if I can get her tomorrow. Boss man has a 36'' to use, I think I can get it with my 32, i know i can. I think im gonna see how it pulls the 36'' though. From where I have sized it, it looks like it would need some help to commit down the hill like i want. Gonna see if I can round up a jack or two and some plate steel, but that is what I want. That dont always happen...
I want the tree to kick off the stump and try and clear the bluff and poplar stump below. A narrow box cut with a snipe i think will give me the most action. I have never tried to put a box in a tree of this size, but I think if I really concentrate on gunning the same point on each cut I can get it done in an acceptable mannor. We will see. . . .


----------



## madhatte

coastalfaller said:


> The falling world truly lost one of it's best.



Here's to all of 'em.


----------



## 056 kid

Here is a poplar I cut today,


----------



## mdavlee

Nice sized poplar. Is that the 32" bar on the 660?


----------



## Burvol

Damn Ted! I have been out of it! Nice to see you cutting logs again!


----------



## RPM

056 kid said:


> Here is a poplar I cut today,



Is that stain on the butt? Just curious how far up that goes and if you have to buck it out. Does it go for lumber or pulp? The poplar I see sold out west here (furniture grade wood) is nice, clear white wood.

Nice pumpkins anyways!


----------



## forestryworks

056 kid said:


> Here is a poplar I cut today,



Damn, that's a real nice yellow-poplar.


----------



## 056 kid

wheelie.








bucked...


----------



## hammerlogging

RPM said:


> Is that stain on the butt? Just curious how far up that goes and if you have to buck it out. Does it go for lumber or pulp? The poplar I see sold out west here (furniture grade wood) is nice, clear white wood.
> 
> Nice pumpkins anyways!



you'll get that stain in an old poplar, it'll clean up.

Theres superprime poplar sawlogs, peelers, and if your measurements make you do it, grade 2/3 sawlogs. And soft hardwood pulp.
Nice pics dude, nice saw.


----------



## forestryworks

One of the roadside hazards I did. Didn't feel like pounding wedges on a tree so close to the road, so I jacked it over. My first time doing the block face with a snipe.

The tree, "freshly dead", still had alot of moisture in the wood. Could still count the growth rings. It didn't lean too hard towards the road, used a plumb bob and estimated a little under a foot off vertical on the greatest amount of lean. It had a slight S curve in the tree, with the lower 2/3 of the tree towards the road and the upper 1/3 neutral, almost perfectly straight. Had some limb weight to work with as well.

I realized I made the jackseat too big, but I still had plenty of holding wood to work with. While it looks like I cut through the hinge, I didn't... Just cut a few lines with the saw to keep things as level and square as possible.

After it went over I said to one of the traffic control guys, "I still got a lot more to learn." He said, "well hell, you're miles ahead of me. I thought it was pretty cool, never seen it done that way."

This has been a fun experience so far. Enjoying it.


----------



## stihl sawing

056 kid said:


> wheelie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bucked...


Good pics Ted, Keep em coming.


----------



## stihl sawing

forestryworks said:


> One of the roadside hazards I did. Didn't feel like pounding wedges on a tree so close to the road, so I jacked it over. My first time doing the block face with a snipe.
> 
> The tree, "freshly dead", still had alot of moisture in the wood. Could still count the growth rings. It didn't lean too hard towards the road, used a plumb bob and estimated a little under a foot off vertical on the greatest amount of lean. It had a slight S curve in the tree, with the lower 2/3 of the tree towards the road and the upper 1/3 neutral, almost perfectly straight. Had some limb weight to work with as well.
> 
> I realized I made the jackseat too big, but I still had plenty of holding wood to work with. While it looks like I cut through the hinge, I didn't... Just cut a few lines with the saw to keep things as level and square as possible.
> 
> After it went over I said to one of the traffic control guys, "I still got a lot more to learn." He said, "well hell, you're miles ahead of me. I thought it was pretty cool, never seen it done that way."
> 
> This has been a fun experience so far. Enjoying it.


Sweet, Would a regular heavy duty bottle jack work for doing that instead of those expensive tree jacks? I've seen a couple of times that would be nice to have. I figured you would have to put a piece of flat metal on top of the jack to keep the screw from digging in.


----------



## bitzer

Great pics boys!

Nice poplar Ted! I'll bet that was a fun one! How'd that new saw feel?


----------



## RandyMac

Pretty good looking stuff, blockcuts, jacks, you both are headed toward advanced studies. Try out things when you feel ready, don't get carried away, well too much. Excessive creativity can cause spectacular results, I lost a three month old 050 by operating out of my range.


----------



## hammerlogging

RandyMac said:


> Excessive creativity can cause spectacular results



love it.


----------



## forestryworks

stihl sawing said:


> Sweet, Would a regular heavy duty bottle jack work for doing that instead of those expensive tree jacks? I've seen a couple of times that would be nice to have. I figured you would have to put a piece of flat metal on top of the jack to keep the screw from digging in.



I use a little 12 ton bottle jack from time to time. They have their limits though. I either use a little 4"x4" 1/4" thick steel plate on top of the ram, or put a wedge in. The problem with bottle jacks is they can get spit out of the backcut cause the head of the ram (or the plate) doesn't pivot with the square portion of the backcut as the tree lifts.

I used it on this tree cause I knew I could do it, and didn't need too much lift. About 2" on the jack was all i needed. I just didn't feel like pounding wedges 8ft. from the road.

I've jacked two trees over in the last 3 years if that says anything. Wedges do most of the lifting around here.


----------



## stihl sawing

forestryworks said:


> I use a little 12 ton bottle jack from time to time. They have their limits though. I either use a little 4"x4" 1/4" thick steel plate on top of the ram, or put a wedge in. The problem with bottle jacks is they can get spit out of the backcut cause the head of the ram (or the plate) doesn't pivot with the square portion of the backcut as the tree lifts.
> 
> I used it on this tree cause I knew I could do it, and didn't need too much lift. About 2" on the jack was all i needed. I just didn't feel like pounding wedges 8ft. from the road.
> 
> I've jacked two trees over in the last 3 years if that says anything. Wedges do most of the lifting around here.


Yeah i wouldn't do it much either, Had a few trees that were leaning the wrong direction. Wouldn't hurt nothing if they fell any way but wanted them to fall a certain way to load up the wood easier. May try it one day. The truck winch and wedges has always worked fine though.


----------



## Greystoke

Good Job Jameson and Ted...nice pics


----------



## Burvol

forestryworks said:


> One of the roadside hazards I did. Didn't feel like pounding wedges on a tree so close to the road, so I jacked it over. My first time doing the block face with a snipe.
> 
> The tree, "freshly dead", still had alot of moisture in the wood. Could still count the growth rings. It didn't lean too hard towards the road, used a plumb bob and estimated a little under a foot off vertical on the greatest amount of lean. It had a slight S curve in the tree, with the lower 2/3 of the tree towards the road and the upper 1/3 neutral, almost perfectly straight. Had some limb weight to work with as well.
> 
> I realized I made the jackseat too big, but I still had plenty of holding wood to work with. While it looks like I cut through the hinge, I didn't... Just cut a few lines with the saw to keep things as level and square as possible.
> 
> After it went over I said to one of the traffic control guys, "I still got a lot more to learn." He said, "well hell, you're miles ahead of me. I thought it was pretty cool, never seen it done that way."
> 
> This has been a fun experience so far. Enjoying it.



I'm proud of you Buddy! 

Your at the very top of my list for breaking in a faller, if I ever get the pleasure. Molding your fragile mind, MUAHAHAA lol. I've cut with quiet a few guys now, and see how everyone has their own tricks, the universally known ones, and the waste of time ####. I ain't saying I'm some killer timber faller, but I am a quality concious SOB that just likes to do it. I stick with safe productive habits and just grind it out all day. Take your breaks on the stump. It works out great. You rest your legs and make your shot count. Two birds with one stone, stuff like that will make you produce more wood. Bob and I talked about that sort of thing over the phone on Christmas...respect what it is, and know you have a great handle on things, but never fully control it, even if it seems like it. 

I know you take care of your body and eat well, don't drink too much, you'll make it, I know you will. It's gonna be a life changing move coming west and being my neighbor, but I think you'll like it. There is a few things that may or may not happen in the next two years, and depending on how they pan out, I am going to put together my own crew. Everyone runs their own numbers, but we go as a crew on jobs. I have built a good rep with everyone I have cut logs for and have an open door at every outfit. I want good guys that have their heart in the job and treat it like it still means something.

You and Ted, Oregon Cutter, Cody & Jacob, (We'll draw straws for Bullbuck cause you'll whoop me at arm wrastlin' lol) Bob and Randy can side rod out of the crummy with the lap top complaining about the misfits out there , and who ever I left out, I aplogize. Gary, you in Mang? I'll call you in the slick wood units, Mr. Full Skip Stihl head lol


----------



## Jacob J.

Burvol said:


> You and Ted, Oregon Cutter, Cody & Jacob, (We'll draw straws for Bullbuck cause you'll whoop me at arm wrastlin' lol) Bob and Randy can side rod out of the crummy with the lap top complaining about the misfits out there , and who ever I left out, I aplogize. Gary, you in Mang? I'll call you in the slick wood units, Mr. Full Skip Stihl head lol



I'm calling dibs on the west side strips...


----------



## huskyhank

Good looking work. Can someone tell me the why about the block faces?


----------



## Jacob J.

huskyhank said:


> Good looking work. Can someone tell me the why about the block faces?



Block out faces work good in situations where you want the holding wood to fold with the tree. That way when the hinge breaks, it pulls the tongue from the stump rather than the log. Block out faces also let you control the timing of getting the butt to the ground. It may be desirable to get the butt on the ground sooner if you're cutting something real brittle, or later if you're falling a tall piece over a long sweep.


----------



## huskyhank

Jacob J. said:


> Block out faces work good in situations where you want the holding wood to fold with the tree. That way when the hinge breaks, it pulls the tongue from the stump rather than the log. Block out faces also let you control the timing of getting the butt to the ground. It may be desirable to get the butt on the ground sooner if you're cutting something real brittle, or later if you're falling a tall piece over a long sweep.



OK, the block out face keeps the log attached to the stump a bit longer because the hinge bends some before breaking - that makes sense.


----------



## tramp bushler

Forestry: you need a jacking plate ..... Those nice little stubby 20 ton bottle jacks work fine for not huge trees .... I SERIOUSLY recomend against using a wedge . even a maggy will get pretzled real easy . and I have poked a couple holes thru plastic wedges ....... A nice 6" diameter circle of 3/8th" plate steel with a handle welded to it . and a 2" diameter 1/4 - 1/2" high ring of steel pipe welded to the center to keep the jack in it,s place .


----------



## forestryworks

056 kid said:


> Here is a poplar I cut today,



I had to look at the pic again, nice saw... and nice low stump for having a wrap handle. Good job, Ted 

How big was that poplar? how many logs?


----------



## slowp

Burvol said:


> I'm proud of you Buddy!
> 
> 
> You and Ted, Oregon Cutter, Cody & Jacob, (We'll draw straws for Bullbuck cause you'll whoop me at arm wrastlin' lol) Bob and Randy can side rod out of the crummy with the lap top complaining about the misfits out there , and who ever I left out, I aplogize. Gary, you in Mang? I'll call you in the slick wood units, Mr. Full Skip Stihl head lol



What side of *The River *will this A-Team be working on?


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> What side of *The River *will this A-Team be working on?



Doesn't matter...we're requesting you for Sale Administrator.


----------



## Gologit

Burvol said:


> You and Ted, Oregon Cutter, Cody & Jacob, (We'll draw straws for Bullbuck cause you'll whoop me at arm wrastlin' lol) Bob and Randy can side rod out of the crummy with the lap top complaining about the misfits out there , and who ever I left out, I aplogize. Gary, you in Mang? I'll call you in the slick wood units, Mr. Full Skip Stihl head lol



With a crew like that there wouldn't be much for the side rod to do...just give them their strips and get out of the way. Oh...and order up some trucks....lots of trucks.


----------



## Hddnis

I wouldn't feel worthy to work alongside such a team, but if you'll let me handle the camera, I've taken one or two decent pictures in my time. I could make you all famous. lol




Mr. HE


----------



## madhatte

I guess you'll need somebody to make up unit maps. I'll get the GPS warmed up.


----------



## tramp bushler

*A Team huh ?*

I,ll take John Ellison . If he could be inticed back to Alaska , and get Coastal Faller a work VISA , and lets see , who else ..:biggrinbounce2:... And have to bring Hammer up ... He would make a good Ak. bushler . Le me think some more . Oh Ya . Blitzer . He,de be real good on the steep stuff as he has young legs ...Poor guy , stick him in the high hard and dangerous stuff ...


----------



## RandyMac

There is a patch of DF on the south fork of the Smith that needs attention, it's steep and the sticks are big and tall.


----------



## 056 kid

QUOTE=forestryworks;2198307]I had to look at the pic again, nice saw... and nice low stump for having a wrap handle. Good job, Ted 

How big was that poplar? how many logs?[/QUOTE]

it was alittle over 50 inches at the butt. i think there where 2 16s and an 8 or a 10. that tree wasent very tall, just fat. go deeper in the hollows and the timber gets taller. 


heres a nice white oak..





[


----------



## mdavlee

That is a nice oak for sure.


----------



## coastalfaller

tramp bushler said:


> I,ll take John Ellison . If he could be inticed back to Alaska , and get Coastal Faller a work VISA , and lets see , who else ..:biggrinbounce2:... And have to bring Hammer up ... He would make a good Ak. bushler . Le me think some more . Oh Ya . Blitzer . He,de be real good on the steep stuff as he has young legs ...Poor guy , stick him in the high hard and dangerous stuff ...



Ha, ha, sounds good, Tramp, sign me up!


----------



## Gologit

We left out Treeslingr'...he could fall all day and then work the saws over while the rest of us go to town.


----------



## GASoline71

Burvol said:


> You and Ted, Oregon Cutter, Cody & Jacob, (We'll draw straws for Bullbuck cause you'll whoop me at arm wrastlin' lol) Bob and Randy can side rod out of the crummy with the lap top complaining about the misfits out there , and who ever I left out, I aplogize. Gary, you in Mang? I'll call you in the slick wood units, Mr. Full Skip Stihl head lol



I'm in mang... I'll sharpen chains and fuel saws... but I'll only sharpen full skip chains... since I'm lazy. 

Gary


----------



## Greystoke

Burvol said:


> You and Ted, Oregon Cutter, Cody & Jacob, (We'll draw straws for Bullbuck cause you'll whoop me at arm wrastlin' lol) Bob and Randy can side rod out of the crummy with the lap top complaining about the misfits out there , and who ever I left out, I aplogize. Gary, you in Mang? I'll call you in the slick wood units, Mr. Full Skip Stihl head lol



Sounds good to me Man! After the last couple of inglorious days I have had thinning and hand piling brush:bang: a guy should never think that kind of work is beneath him, cuz then you will have to eat your words! Oh well, it builds character, at least that is what I keep tellin myself...that and I get to make some money versus nothing! Anyhow, I am so ready to come unraveled on a west coast juice patch:chainsawguy: Have been getting a few tree jobs here and there, nothin too glorious. Fell a few pine around a guys house the other day, but did not get any pics. Only pics I have are some climbing pics my Wife took last Saturday when I pruned up a big weeping willow...but since this is the "falling pics" thread I will refrain...


----------



## hammerlogging

Tramp, you must have road your reindeer back to civilization before breakup?

Hey, I'm game. Also considering the International Fallers Network, a few of us rotate between our respective locales (and work), tour the good timber parts of the world, 3 months here, three months there, a chance to cut different places, and spend enough time each place to experience the place.

NZ, Australia/Tazmania, NorCal, BC, SE AK, Appalachia, the congo, Brazil, Chile......


----------



## forestryworks

60ft or so.








Old lightning scar?


----------



## oldirty

hey burvol. you gonna need a climber on the crew....


----------



## Burvol

tramp bushler said:


> I,ll take John Ellison . If he could be inticed back to Alaska , and get Coastal Faller a work VISA , and lets see , who else ..:biggrinbounce2:... And have to bring Hammer up ... He would make a good Ak. bushler . Le me think some more . Oh Ya . Blitzer . He,de be real good on the steep stuff as he has young legs ...Poor guy , stick him in the high hard and dangerous stuff ...



Yes! I forgot Mr. Tramp and the good ole' John E. You guys are in as well. We will find something for Old Dirty to climb.


----------



## tramp bushler

Forestry : are those Southern yellow pine ?? Most of them look pretty sound , tho kinda ugly on the outside ? Just remember to keep looking up !!! 
.
. Everything is looking good !


----------



## forestryworks

tramp bushler said:


> Forestry : are those Southern yellow pine ?? Most of them look pretty sound , tho kinda ugly on the outside ? Just remember to keep looking up !!!
> .
> . Everything is looking good !



yes sir, that was shortleaf pine, dominant pine here.

Thanks.


----------



## Jacob J.

forestryworks said:


> One of the roadside hazards I did. Didn't feel like pounding wedges on a tree so close to the road, so I jacked it over. My first time doing the block face with a snipe.



Hey J-

Did you make the jack seat on this one across the entire back of the tree?


----------



## forestryworks

Jacob J. said:


> Hey J-
> 
> Did you make the jack seat on this one across the entire back of the tree?



I did. Instead of a full seat should I have done a corner seat on the compression side?


----------



## tramp bushler

I prefer taking a wedge block out , just enough for the jack to fit in fully and backing it up with wedges on each side .. Blow a seal on a hyd. jack and stuff can get real ugly real fast !!!!!!!!!! if you have a couple wedges in and up tight it helps keep the blood pressure between the ears and adrenalin within reasonable zones ... . The max red line on a Silvey is a scary place to be ..!!


----------



## Jacob J.

forestryworks said:


> I did. Instead of a full seat should I have done a corner seat on the compression side?



Yes, bushler explains it well...


----------



## forestryworks

Got another big roadside to do this week. A bit too windy today for cutting, but we'll see how it is at the site. I've seen the tree once, an oak if I remember right. Gonna try and get some pics.


----------



## coastalfaller

tramp bushler said:


> I prefer taking a wedge block out , just enough for the jack to fit in fully and backing it up with wedges on each side .. Blow a seal on a hyd. jack and stuff can get real ugly real fast !!!!!!!!!! if you have a couple wedges in and up tight it helps keep the blood pressure between the ears and adrenalin within reasonable zones ... . The max red line on a Silvey is a scary place to be ..!!



I agree, perfect explanation.


----------



## 056 kid

73'' . .


----------



## Gologit

tramp bushler said:


> I prefer taking a wedge block out , just enough for the jack to fit in fully and backing it up with wedges on each side .. Blow a seal on a hyd. jack and stuff can get real ugly real fast !!!!!!!!!! if you have a couple wedges in and up tight it helps keep the blood pressure between the ears and adrenalin within reasonable zones ... . The max red line on a Silvey is a scary place to be ..!!



Well said.


----------



## skyhi

*Charlie*

I knew Charlie well for about 10yrs, he was good man who loved to make people laugh, he was hard working, ethical and proffessioal he will be missed by everyone who knew him


----------



## mdavlee

056 kid said:


> 73'' . .



Ya'll are finding all kinds of big wood over in them hollers.


----------



## coastalfaller

skyhi said:


> I knew Charlie well for about 10yrs, he was good man who loved to make people laugh, he was hard working, ethical and proffessioal he will be missed by everyone who knew him



Absolutely.


----------



## bitzer

Man, theres some big wood over there huh Ted? Good pics!




Hey Tramp,

I'll take the steep and ugly stuff you're offering. Thats were all the fun is!


----------



## Burvol

Ted there ain't no timber left out there like that!!! LOL  Hell yes brother! Good to see you at it, having some juice wood!


----------



## RandyMac

Yep, always good to see fresh stumps.

Burv, how is the lad today?


----------



## tramp bushler

skyhi said:


> I knew Charlie well for about 10yrs, he was good man who loved to make people laugh, he was hard working, ethical and proffessioal he will be missed by everyone who knew him


.

.

. I was up north and off line for a while , Who was Charlie ? and what happened ?


----------



## tramp bushler

bitzercreek1 said:


> Man, theres some big wood over there huh Ted? Good pics!.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Tramp,
> 
> I'll take the steep and ugly stuff you're offering. Thats were all the fun is!


.

.

.Ya , get u started buckin for a little bit , show ya some of the hundred things that will get you ... If I could get rid of 65 lbs or chub chub that I,m packin around with every step I would be fine . My knees and ankles still work ok . Bein married and having steady food makes that kinda tough .... 
. Sure does make the spurs sink into these Silver Poplars a long ways now that the sap is starting to run ..

Looks good 56 . What length bar are u running . I'm kind of unfamilar with looking at big dia . logs in bright sunlight as the Most of mine have been in solid overcast at best . ..
.
. Watch out for dem alligators!!


----------



## coastalfaller

tramp bushler said:


> .
> 
> .
> 
> . I was up north and off line for a while , Who was Charlie ? and what happened ?



Charlie was one of my guys who passed away two weeks ago today. There's posts about him earlier in this thread, but he was on his time off from camp, and was helping out a friend with a small job and was fatally hit with the top of a fir snag. One of those genuine guys who simply loved to fall timber. Never had a bad thing to say about anybody, nothing ever bothered him, and he always had a smile on his face. I don't think I ever saw him in a bad mood. He was a talented and skillful professional faller.


----------



## tramp bushler

I'm very very sorry to hear about that ...


----------



## Hddnis

coastalfaller said:


> Charlie was one of my guys who passed away two weeks ago today. There's posts about him earlier in this thread, but he was on his time off from camp, and was helping out a friend with a small job and was fatally hit with the top of a fir snag. One of those genuine guys who simply loved to fall timber. Never had a bad thing to say about anybody, nothing ever bothered him, and he always had a smile on his face. I don't think I ever saw him in a bad mood. He was a talented and skillful professional faller.





I've thought a lot about Charlie, and I only know him through what you have said about him here. Sometimes I think guys like him go young because God knows they are too good for us. I don't know that, it makes me feel better to think so anyway; they get their reward sooner.

I'm not trying to start anything by saying this, and I mean it with the greatest respect for all involved. I'm just sharing my thoughts that have helped me cope when I lost friends like that; good salt of the earth type men and women that really made everything around them better just by being who they were. Gosh I miss them!

Darn memories, I'm going to go cut wood till I feel better.



Mr. HE


----------



## coastalfaller

Hddnis said:


> I've thought a lot about Charlie, and I only know him through what you have said about him here. Sometimes I think guys like him go young because God knows they are too good for us. I don't know that, it makes me feel better to think so anyway; they get their reward sooner.
> 
> I'm not trying to start anything by saying this, and I mean it with the greatest respect for all involved. I'm just sharing my thoughts that have helped me cope when I lost friends like that; good salt of the earth type men and women that really made everything around them better just by being who they were. Gosh I miss them!
> 
> Darn memories, I'm going to go cut wood till I feel better.
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. HE



I agree.


----------



## GASoline71

Here are some pics of a bud of mine (Nice Guy Dave) on a Hazard Removal in Snohomish County, WA. Trees were off of a well used hiking trail, and he went in and did the J.O.B. !!! 

This pickle was *ROTTEN*... and *BIG*. Still 125 feet tall... and that was where it was broke off up top.



























Gary


----------



## Jacob J.

Nice guy Dave looks like he knows what he's doing. Good pics Gary!


----------



## GASoline71

Dave is possibly the best faller I know... on the planet. Dude is awesome.

He is the same guy that put the big Dougie between 2 houses for Roger (rbtree). Because they were able to get some serious BF out of the log.

Cool cat too... 

Gar


----------



## slowp

He would be one of the group of best fallers. We've got one here. He doesn't do it full time anymore.

That picture reminded me of the big old snags that would get felled during our slashburn excitement. It was scary to watch, and a wonder nobody got hurt or worse.


----------



## madhatte

Hooy! That's a lotta snag there! WAY beyond my modest skills. Two thumbs up!


----------



## forestryworks

He looks like a good guy.

What is he doing in picture #3?


----------



## GASoline71

I didn't take the pics... he emailed them to me. Not really sure what the heck hes's doin' in the 3rd pic. 

He's a tuff SOB too... The kinda guy you want on your team in a barfight. 

Gary


----------



## Jacob J.

GASoline71 said:


> Dave is possibly the best faller I know... on the planet. Dude is awesome.
> 
> He is the same guy that put the big Dougie between 2 houses for Roger (rbtree). Because they were able to get some serious BF out of the log.
> 
> Cool cat too...
> 
> Gar



In picture #3 he's setting up the back cut.

Yeah, I talked to Roger and Dave is an ex-Forest Service Hotshot like myself. It seems us ex hotshots are pretty good with saws.


----------



## GASoline71

Yep... I asked him, and he said he was doing exactly that Jacob.

Dave is about 5' 8", but when you hear his gravelly voice you'd think he was 6' 6"... I know I'm glad he's my friend. 

Dave will be in Orygun the first week of June at the same place I'll be at Jacob...

Gary


----------



## Burvol

RandyMac said:


> Yep, always good to see fresh stumps.
> 
> Burv, how is the lad today?



I am still at it, had a couple short days because of huge winds. Gonna go down and bust a springer this morning. Got a hot rod 395 from Jacob J, been putting it is some hammer pine. Working a few small details out, this thing is a beast. More wood the more it wants.


----------



## RandyMac

Been breezy alright, good time to go fishin'. You got a JJ saw? I love it when you get a chainsaw that you can't hardly let go of, start early, leave late just to cut stuff. We have had lots of rain, good for everything, better for fish, good luck with the springers.


----------



## Gologit

Burvol said:


> I am still at it, had a couple short days because of huge winds. Gonna go down and bust a springer this morning. Got a hot rod 395 from Jacob J, been putting it is some hammer pine. Working a few small details out, this thing is a beast. More wood the more it wants.



Glad to hear things are looking up. We just finished what was probably the last big storm of the year. There's quite a bit of work on the books...this might turn out to be a good year. We need it.


----------



## slowp

There are complaints of gridlock at the mill's scaling ramps. All ramps are busy. Log truck traffic is definitely heavier on our highway. One day I went by 6 trucks in a row! Almost everybody is planning on starting up this year.  Lots of corridors to mark too.


----------



## Greystoke

Nice snag pics Gary. Looks like Dave has good skills, and is a character too. Wish I was still working with all of the guys that were like him, throughout my travels. Glad to hear about your badass powersaw Burv. Well, off to do a tree job...hope everyone has a splendid day!


----------



## tramp bushler

Looks like he's beating out the face . Pretty common thing to do in bigger wood .


----------



## 056 kid

tramp bushler said:


> .
> 
> .
> 
> 
> Looks good 56 . What length bar are u running . I'm kind of unfamilar with looking at big dia . logs in bright sunlight as the Most of mine have been in solid overcast at best . ..
> 
> 
> .
> . Watch out for dem alligators!!



i have a 32'' on there right now, and I can tell you, it is not that big on a ported 660. That red oak was still 54'' at the narrowest point bucket at 16'. One of the biggest trees that my boss had "messed with in 40 years"!


----------



## Jacob J.

Burvol said:


> I am still at it, had a couple short days because of huge winds. Gonna go down and bust a springer this morning. Got a hot rod 395 from Jacob J, been putting it is some hammer pine. Working a few small details out, this thing is a beast. More wood the more it wants.



That's the thing I hate about hopping up used saws, all the little bits that are worn out or flop apart. 



056 kid said:


> i have a 32'' on there right now, and I can tell you, it is not that big on a ported 660. That red oak was still 54'' at the narrowest point bucket at 16'. One of the biggest trees that my boss had "messed with in 40 years"!



Good on you, yeah a 32" isn't much bar on a hotrod 660. You might need a custom 40"...


----------



## 056 kid

Jacob J. said:


> That's the thing I hate about hopping up used saws, all the little bits that are worn out or flop apart.
> 
> 
> 
> Good on you, yeah a 32" isn't much bar on a hotrod 660. You might need a custom 40"...



if i do go bigger it wont be a no belly stihl bar. its hard to keep a chain on this 32...


----------



## Burvol

056 kid said:


> if i do go bigger it wont be a no belly stihl bar. its hard to keep a chain on this 32...



You'll learn the knee in bar, stretch the chain back over the tip trick soon. A must!


----------



## 056 kid

Haha, I allready have. its not really a problem in softer wood like poplar, not so much in oak etc..

Icould not get your message btw, dont know why??


----------



## Burvol

Got a 12lbs. Spring Chinook (left side) @ 5:30, 12lbs. Steelhead @ 6:00. Both bucks! Spring bucks eat the best, bar none! Just had to go down and represent, LOL. 30 Guys today 3 fish caught. Got some good eggs Mang. 






Monday after work. 14 lbs. Hen Springer.


----------



## 056 kid

Yes sir!!


----------



## Burvol

I knew you'd like that Ted. That was the text I sent you this morning. Cross your fingers for our tags!!! I am so looking forward to that hunt...can't wait.


----------



## Burvol

Salmon are chemical junkies, they love sulfites. They say steelhead don't. don't believe it for a second. This fish swallowed a 3/0 Owner Hook to boot, with a sulfite based cure, and extra sulfites added to it... Don't believe that you have to use a number 1 size (3 sizes smaller than 3/0) hook to catch steelhead. All they are is overgrown trout. Granted, if that's the only fish in the system, many times I use 1/0 or 2/0, but they will take it when the offering is right. Steelhead don't read books, and all the stuff written about them, LOL.


----------



## 056 kid

That is something i had read about quite abit. most cures out there,(in my area) are sulfite rich. As far as hooks go, I find big & small ones on the river. I was using smaller ones to fish the bottom, i cant remember their size but they are about thzt of a nickle. I use bigger ones, 2/0 s i think..


----------



## RandyMac

I guess there is no profit in bothering you guys with back in the day fishing tales, the fish then, were like what our timber was. I'm just like you lads, to have been a decade sooner...........


----------



## Gologit

RandyMac said:


> I guess there is no profit in bothering you guys with back in the day fishing tales, the fish then, were like what our timber was. I'm just like you lads, to have been a decade sooner...........



LOL...Are we talking about taking a pickup down to Fernbridge and pitch-forking enough salmon to keep ourselves in smoked fish all winter? It was legal, too. Well, kinda anyway.


----------



## slowp

Gologit said:


> LOL...Are we talking about taking a pickup down to Fernbridge and pitch-forking enough salmon to keep ourselves in smoked fish all winter? It was legal, too. Well, kinda anyway.



That's what my mom and dad said too. Don't forget the gunnysack.


----------



## RandyMac

The first time I fished without a hook and line was just upstream of the 101 bridge on the Van Duzen. This was pre-flood era, the gravel pit was just downstream, we hung out at the top of the first riffle using long handled gaffs. My Grandpa growled if you got them anywhere but the head. I remember standing in the fridgid emerald waters of the lower Mattole helping my Grandad spear Kings. When my brother and I were 14, we "borrowed" Grandad's spear, walked way up the West fork of Honeydew Creek in a cold rain. There are few places on earth where it rains like at does in the Kings Range, a 6 inch day is not uncommon. Anyways, we spotted a big King in a hole and waded in waist deep, inched the spear toward it and jabbed him a good one behind the head. The King reacted, well, like he'd been speared, the toggles came off the fork, he lunged for deeper water, the rope twinged taut and two skinnyassed kids followed him upstream. We didn't have enough sense to let go of the pole, the sum##### almost dragged us in over over our heads. My Bro stuck the pole into the bottom, the fish turned and took us downstream, we got him up on a very small gavel bar, where it preceded to kick our asses, it didn't much care for bein' speared and hauled out. Finally subdued, we lashed it to the pole, and carried 40 pounds of dead wet fish back to the ranch in the rain.


----------



## Metals406

RandyMac said:


> The first time I fished without a hook and line was just upstream of the 101 bridge on the Van Duzen. This was pre-flood era, the gravel pit was just downstream, we hung out at the top of the first riffle using long handled gaffs. My Grandpa growled if you got them anywhere but the head. I remember standing in the fridgid emerald waters of the lower Mattole helping my Grandad spear Kings. When my brother and I were 14, we "borrowed" Grandad's spear, walked way up the West fork of Honeydew Creek in a cold rain. There are few places on earth where it rains like at does in the Kings Range, a 6 inch day is not uncommon. Anyways, we spotted a big King in a hole and waded in waist deep, inched the spear toward it and jabbed him a good one behind the head. The King reacted, well, like he'd been speared, the toggles came off the fork, he lunged for deeper water, the rope twinged taut and two skinnyassed kids followed him upstream. We didn't have enough sense to let go of the pole, the sum##### almost dragged us in over over our heads. My Bro stuck the pole into the bottom, the fish turned and took us downstream, we got him up on a very small gavel bar, where it preceded to kick our asses, it didn't much care for bein' speared and hauled out. Finally subdued, we lashed it to the pole, and carried 40 pounds of dead wet fish back to the ranch in the rain.





Excellent story Randy! I'd like to catch me a big fish sometime. . . Biggest I've ever hooked was probably 8 pounds. I'm not a hardcore fisher like Burv though.

I actually like fishing Brook Trout in small, unassuming streams. . . They fight like they're a Tiger Shark for their size, and they taste great. Just a worm & a hook, and ya float it down past deep cuts in the bank, or logs, etc. Them little buggers will nail that thing hard as hell.

Good Brooky fishing is harder to find these days. . . Not like when I was growing up.


----------



## RandyMac

I know what you mean about Brooks and Browns in those slough like creeks, NW Nevada has lots of them. A three pound trout on very light tackle is a blast. I liked to use a flyrod with a small orange flatfish lure, the one with spots worked great, they hit them hard. Thses are the type of streams that have no cover, you have to sneak up quietly, keep your shadow off the water.


----------



## Burvol

Did a 45 in just a couple hundred feet down from me today in 2007. 15lbs. test Maxima and a good old Lamiglass Rouge River Special Rod.

That sounds like I'm trying the ol' One up on em story LOL


----------



## RandyMac

Burvol said:


> Did a 45 in just a couple hundred feet down from me today in 2007. 15lbs. test Maxima and a good old Lamiglass Rouge River Special Rod.
> 
> That sounds like I'm trying the ol' One up on em story LOL



Nah, everybody has a big fish story. You ever fish saltwater?


----------



## Metals406

RandyMac said:


> I know what you mean about Brooks and Browns in those slough like creeks, NW Nevada has lots of them. A three pound trout on very light tackle is a blast. I liked to use a flyrod with a small orange flatfish lure, the one with spots worked great, they hit them hard. Thses are the type of streams that have no cover, you have to sneak up quietly, keep your shadow off the water.



EXACTLY!!! 

That's one of the first things dad taught us. He also taught us to hand fish and gill snag. . . Pretty handy if you're hungry and don't have any tackle.

Ya got me wanting to go fishing now! LOL

I remember this one time, my friend Shawn was fishing this little creek. This creek was only about 2' wide. Shawn wasn't "doing it right", so dad grabbed the pole, and say's "This is how ya do it". 

I #### you not, he hauled a 16" Mountain Whitefish out in like 30 seconds. Us kids had to pick our jaws off of the ground. Hahaha :jawdrop:


----------



## Metals406

Since we're talking fishing. . . Figured you fellas would get a kick out of this one. LOL

*A Jack Daniels Fishing Story:*

_I went fishing this morning but after a short time I ran out of worms.

Then I saw a cottonmouth with a frog in his mouth. Frogs are good bass bait.

Knowing the snake couldn't bite me with the frog in his mouth I grabbed him right behind the head, took the frog, and put it in my bait bucket.

Now the dilemma was how to release the snake without getting bit. So, I grabbed my bottle of Jack Daniels and poured a little whiskey in it's mouth.

His eyes rolled back, he went limp. I released him into the lake without incident and carried on fishing using the frog.

A little later, I felt a nudge on my foot. There was that same snake with two frogs in his mouth.

Life is good in Tennessee._


----------



## forestryworks

Some more pictures. From the same set as the "yellow shirt pictures". 

Now when I see how good the pics look on film compared to digital or camera phone, I wish my dad had taken all the pics on his film camera.

This was about a 70 footer or so. Not too much of a crown, you can see some limbs. Had about a 10ft window to put it through so it wouldn't hang up. Had to cut a few other trees down to get this guy down - you can see the oak on the right that I cut.

Where my dad is taking the picture is a horse trail, and the pine leaned toward it. I can't remember how many feet off vertical this guy was, but a set of doubled up wedges got it over, so it couldn't have been more than a foot or two.























Here's a pic of me swamping out an escape path for the "rock snag."


----------



## Burvol

RandyMac said:


> Nah, everybody has a big fish story. You ever fish saltwater?



Yes, my Uncle lives on the Oregon Coast. All through my early 20's my cousin and I would go down and stay at his place and fish the July salmon opener. In 2001 we were the second boat back into Garibaldi with a limit with four guys. I puked, and caught fish, not too ill at all, had fun. One of my fish had a chip that was detected and cut out of her snout. They sent me the info on the fish (where born, reared, released, theory of travel) two years later in the mail. I had totally forgot about it. It was cool. In subsequent trips we encountered brutal seas, low to dismal catches, with good fishing mixed in between. On one of the brutal trips a Coast Guard Cutter came out and blocked the bar coming back into the bay, due to epic rollers that cut darn near right down to the sand. We did a holding pattern for two hours in what I don't even know how to measure, all aboard a 22ft. vessel. I clearly remeber eating burritos and Gatorade that day


----------



## Burvol

Nice pictures Forestry! Good looking country to be roaming in the spring with a saw...


----------



## forestryworks

Burvol said:


> Nice pictures Forestry! Good looking country to be roaming in the spring with a saw...



It's nice, except for the ticks and the horseflies. The horseflies are on steroids and will carry you off to Mexico if you ain't careful


----------



## forestryworks

RandyMac said:


> The first time I fished without a hook and line was just upstream of the 101 bridge on the Van Duzen. This was pre-flood era, the gravel pit was just downstream, we hung out at the top of the first riffle using long handled gaffs. My Grandpa growled if you got them anywhere but the head. I remember standing in the fridgid emerald waters of the lower Mattole helping my Grandad spear Kings. When my brother and I were 14, we "borrowed" Grandad's spear, walked way up the West fork of Honeydew Creek in a cold rain. There are few places on earth where it rains like at does in the Kings Range, a 6 inch day is not uncommon. Anyways, we spotted a big King in a hole and waded in waist deep, inched the spear toward it and jabbed him a good one behind the head. The King reacted, well, like he'd been speared, the toggles came off the fork, he lunged for deeper water, the rope twinged taut and two skinnyassed kids followed him upstream. We didn't have enough sense to let go of the pole, the sum##### almost dragged us in over over our heads. My Bro stuck the pole into the bottom, the fish turned and took us downstream, we got him up on a very small gavel bar, where it preceded to kick our asses, it didn't much care for bein' speared and hauled out. Finally subdued, we lashed it to the pole, and carried 40 pounds of dead wet fish back to the ranch in the rain.



Great story


----------



## madhatte

Burvol said:


> On one of the brutal trips a Coast Guard Cutter came out and blocked the bar coming back into the bay, due to epic rollers that cut darn near right down to the sand. We did a holding pattern for two hours in what I don't even know how to measure, all aboard a 22ft. vessel.



Burvol, if I get to talk to you at any GTG, remind me to tell you about my discoveries regarding hydrologies, dams, watersheds, and fisheries. I'm a forester, so I really don't know what I'm talking about, obviously, but I have a feeling you'll be interested in my pet project anyhow. 

Secret Password: Washaway Beach.


----------



## coastalfaller

forestryworks said:


> It's nice, except for the ticks and the horseflies. The horseflies are on steroids and will carry you off to Mexico if you ain't careful



Ha, ha. Isn't that the truth!! I love how they always like to get you just at that sweet spot right in the middle of your back. You know that spot that you just can't quite reach?!


----------



## forestryworks

coastalfaller said:


> Ha, ha. Isn't that the truth!! I love how they always like to get you just at that sweet spot right in the middle of your back. You know that spot that you just can't quite reach?!



And then they bite right there, haha. And boy do they bite hard. Through a t-shirt too!


----------



## coastalfaller

forestryworks said:


> And then they bite right there, haha. And boy do they bite hard. Through a t-shirt too!



Oh, do they ever! Through a hickory shirt too and they like to take chunks!! Little SOB's!!


----------



## coastalfaller

forestryworks said:


> Great story



I agree. I think it's high time for some more falling stories from Randy too!


----------



## RandyMac

coastalfaller said:


> I agree. I think it's high time for some more falling stories from Randy too!



Maybe later, tied one on, slept 12 hours, kinda fuzzy around the edges.


----------



## coastalfaller

RandyMac said:


> Maybe later, tied one on, slept 12 hours, kinda fuzzy around the edges.



I hear you. That was me yesterday!


----------



## terry2tmd

Burvol said:


> Thanks Joe. I agree it's hard. I just pulled my phone out of my hickory pocket and snapped a few.
> 
> People will always look down on us, but you know as well as I, that they could not do our job. Not being arrogant, just plain truthful. Being a good faller is not only production and quality, but reliability and the grind of a whole season. The general population is fairly soft. Think about even 50 years ago. Everyone worked hard. People are needed in all occupations, but when they snub us like you speak of, it makes me laugh.



Loved the pic's, reminded me of working with Dad before the mill went down. I currently work in the oil field as a ruffneck. This comment hit me square in the hart, you're right on. We do jobs they could never do and never know the pride of coming home so tired eating dinner is a chore. These pic's are of a dieing breed that should be proud as hell of the work they do, I am humbled to you gents! Thanks for sharing!


----------



## RandyMac

*another installment "I killed my saw"*

I was falling big Doug Fir on very steep ground, a fair amount of the timber was "goosenecked", meanin' the stump was square with the ground, and the tree turned upward to grow straight up. Often the trunk was oblongated (is that a word?) or oval in shape. On the uphill side, as the tree "leaned" back, the wood is often compressed, gnarled up grain and such. 
Anyway, it was late in the day when I came across such a fir. It was close to 60", sittin' on 100% slope, I wandered around it guessin' the lean with a bullet on a string. The uphill side was cut pretty close to the dirt, as the drop-off on the downhill side was maybe 6 feet. I whipped a Humboldt cut into it without too much stretchin', but when I started the back cut, I ran out of arm length. So I cut a couple toeholds in, and anchored my self with a Bowie knife, stuck my corks in the slots, grabbed up my saw and swung out. I jammed the spikes in, managed to properly start the backcut. It wasn't long before I was havin' little problems, the saw had more leverage than I did, I couldn't pound the wedges in very well while using the saw to cling to the trunk, the yellowjackets I had stirred up earlier were still after me. It was hot, I was sweatin' and filling my shirt with chips and the dammed tree was oozing sap copiously. I was havin' so much fun, I decided that I needed to switch the saw around, so I could reach the far side better. Out with the Bowie again, while I one armed the saw back into the cut, it seemed like a good idea at the time. "Cept the saw was takin' up some of the room I needed to stay put. I slid to one side, using one foot and the knife, continued sawin'. This is where things went to hell, quickly. The saw bucked some, like it was hittin' something real hard, it was, a couple centuries worth of leanin' backwards had compressed the wood something fierce and put abit of a twist in the grain. I tapped at the wedges some more, it was like swingin' an ax under water, I had no power what so ever. I went back to sawin', the tree started popping, it was only then that I considered an escape route....hmmm. Wasn't given much time to think about it, with loud snap, crackle, pops, the SOB started over and grabbed the tip of the bar. I gave a try at tossing the saw out of the way, didn't go so well. The last I saw of it (intact that is) was as I was jumpin' (fallin') off the tree. The poor 050 was embeded right behind the hinge, bar was bent, it was still idleing. I didn't get to see the whole thing, I was rollin' downhill at the time. I'm guessin' the tree tossed the saw off, then rolled and skidded on it. I stood and stared at it for a few moments, kicked some dirt over it, went back up the hill to get the Mac 250. Oh yeah, I learned a couple things alright, and still continued to do crazy things.


----------



## Jacob J.

That's a good'un Randy...nothing like those pistol-butt/gooseneck dry firs in Norcal...


----------



## joesawer

Dang Randy Mac, The first saw I killed was not nearly as exciting as all that.
I had just bought a brand new Stihl 064 to replace my finger cramping Mac 550.
I was climbing a decent pine for Alabama and had it all limbed and top and was pushing 9 foot logs of it.
I had my groundie send up the sweet new Stihl with a 32" bar so that I could reach all the way through the back cut.
The first little log I pushed off I over cut the back cut on the far side and when it tipped over it took the saw with it.
the log landed on one on the ground and kind of blew up but rocked like a teeter toter while doing so and hit the 064 like a base ball bat and knocked it back up nearly as high as I was. I will never forget the sight of it sailing back up towards me in slow motion with bar oil streaming out behind it.
Oh well that old Mac built character!


----------



## forestryworks

Those are some good stories, fellas. Keep 'em coming.


----------



## RandyMac

Come on Joe!! That was a creative way to destroy a chainsaw, one in a hundred might go that way. Lots of saws have been killed at the stump, that 050 wasn't the only one, I lost a big Homelite to a fractured Redwood snag. 
There were also adventures in bucking. With most of the discussions on falling, we forget that you will do far more bucking then anything else. Bucking requires more skill than falling does, one tree can give you 5 different oppurtunies to play with stored energy. Improper release of tension on steep ground can be noisy.


----------



## joesawer

In the Southeast I think more saws are destroyed doing tree work since a vast majority of falling is mechanized. Also smaller trees and decent ground are the norm.
But the cut a circle around the tree and see what way it will fall technique has crushed a lot of saws also.
I used to partner up with a guy who was older and more experienced at residential tree work, at that time.
He had a smoking problem and I insisted he abstain when we worked together. He "borrowed" my new stihl climbing saw one day while I was working in the woods. He returned it and told me it would not start. Later his son told me he dropped it at least five times.
With a new starter pulley and dogs it would crank and run but the crank was out of line with the housing and it would destroy the starter system every time you did.
That whole experience was educational. I learned that I did not have any brain cells to spare!


----------



## huskyhank

RandyMac said:


> snipped......
> 
> There were also adventures in bucking. With most of the discussions on falling, we forget that you will do far more bucking then anything else. Bucking requires more skill than falling does, one tree can give you 5 different oppurtunies to play with stored energy. Improper release of tension on steep ground can be noisy.



OK - tell me about bucking, please.
I'm cutting logs for my mill on some big construction sites. I get to cut some of the trees but I also get some that have been pushed over with a big rootball still attached. As far as difficulty goes they are the worst but even the ones I cut are scary sometimes since I'm in a hurry to get the butt log and let the trackhoe guys haul off the rest to the chipper. And I'm working them from the wrong end from what I'm used to doing. Its lots easier to be able to get the main stem on the ground before bucking it. I'm getting big spreading hardwoods and they mostly don't lay down flat.


----------



## joesawer

huskyhank said:


> OK - tell me about bucking, please.
> I'm cutting logs for my mill on some big construction sites. I get to cut some of the trees but I also get some that have been pushed over with a big rootball still attached. As far as difficulty goes they are the worst but even the ones I cut are scary sometimes since I'm in a hurry to get the butt log and let the trackhoe guys haul off the rest to the chipper. And I'm working them from the wrong end from what I'm used to doing. Its lots easier to be able to get the main stem on the ground before bucking it. I'm getting big spreading hardwoods and they mostly don't lay down flat.



Look at it and figure compression and tension. It can be very tricky if pushed by equipment or it goes down hill after it hits the ground.
And don't ever put yourself in a crush point where if something comes at you you can't move out of the way or at least get knocked out of the way.


----------



## 056 kid

Why am I always drunk on sunday night? I never plan things this way, but it always happens. Maybe it will rain...


----------



## mdavlee

056 kid said:


> Why am I always drunk on sunday night? I never plan things this way, but it always happens. Maybe it will rain...



It always works out that way when you have to get up and go to work in the morning. I used to do that a lot when I worked at home. I would look at a clock and only have a few hours to sleep before I got up to go to work. I drank pretty much a whole 5th of goldslager. I was still drunk til lunch the next day.


----------



## Greystoke

Burvol said:


> You'll learn the knee in bar, stretch the chain back over the tip trick soon. A must!



Definitely a must!


----------



## Greystoke

Burvol said:


> Got a 12lbs. Spring Chinook (left side) @ 5:30, 12lbs. Steelhead @ 6:00. Both bucks! Spring bucks eat the best, bar none! Just had to go down and represent, LOL. 30 Guys today 3 fish caught. Got some good eggs Mang.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Monday after work. 14 lbs. Hen Springer.



Nice fish...look like good eatin!


----------



## Greystoke

RandyMac said:


> The first time I fished without a hook and line was just upstream of the 101 bridge on the Van Duzen. This was pre-flood era, the gravel pit was just downstream, we hung out at the top of the first riffle using long handled gaffs. My Grandpa growled if you got them anywhere but the head. I remember standing in the fridgid emerald waters of the lower Mattole helping my Grandad spear Kings. When my brother and I were 14, we "borrowed" Grandad's spear, walked way up the West fork of Honeydew Creek in a cold rain. There are few places on earth where it rains like at does in the Kings Range, a 6 inch day is not uncommon. Anyways, we spotted a big King in a hole and waded in waist deep, inched the spear toward it and jabbed him a good one behind the head. The King reacted, well, like he'd been speared, the toggles came off the fork, he lunged for deeper water, the rope twinged taut and two skinnyassed kids followed him upstream. We didn't have enough sense to let go of the pole, the sum##### almost dragged us in over over our heads. My Bro stuck the pole into the bottom, the fish turned and took us downstream, we got him up on a very small gavel bar, where it preceded to kick our asses, it didn't much care for bein' speared and hauled out. Finally subdued, we lashed it to the pole, and carried 40 pounds of dead wet fish back to the ranch in the rain.



AWWW, the good ol days! Bet you wish you could re-live that day again!


----------



## Greystoke

Metals406 said:


> Since we're talking fishing. . . Figured you fellas would get a kick out of this one. LOL
> 
> *A Jack Daniels Fishing Story:*
> 
> _I went fishing this morning but after a short time I ran out of worms.
> 
> Then I saw a cottonmouth with a frog in his mouth. Frogs are good bass bait.
> 
> Knowing the snake couldn't bite me with the frog in his mouth I grabbed him right behind the head, took the frog, and put it in my bait bucket.
> 
> Now the dilemma was how to release the snake without getting bit. So, I grabbed my bottle of Jack Daniels and poured a little whiskey in it's mouth.
> 
> His eyes rolled back, he went limp. I released him into the lake without incident and carried on fishing using the frog.
> 
> A little later, I felt a nudge on my foot. There was that same snake with two frogs in his mouth.
> 
> Life is good in Tennessee._



LOLOLOL! Good one Nate!


----------



## Greystoke

forestryworks said:


> Some more pictures. From the same set as the "yellow shirt pictures".
> 
> Now when I see how good the pics look on film compared to digital or camera phone, I wish my dad had taken all the pics on his film camera.
> 
> This was about a 70 footer or so. Not too much of a crown, you can see some limbs. Had about a 10ft window to put it through so it wouldn't hang up. Had to cut a few other trees down to get this guy down - you can see the oak on the right that I cut.
> 
> Where my dad is taking the picture is a horse trail, and the pine leaned toward it. I can't remember how many feet off vertical this guy was, but a set of doubled up wedges got it over, so it couldn't have been more than a foot or two.



Nice job Pardner!


----------



## Greystoke

Burvol said:


> I puked, and caught fish, not too ill at all, had fun.



LOL! That reminds me of the time my Brother-in-law invited me on a fishin trip to Baja Mexico with him, while I was recovering from a broken leg. Anyhow, on the third and last day of the trip, all the guys wanted to go into Cabo for a night on the town...bad Idea! I had seen some nasty waters in Alaska, and had never been sea-sick, but the next day after Cabo, I was! At least that is what our little, pot-bellied Mexican ponga Captain thought. There was two of us fishing with four rods, so when we would get into a school of Tuna, we were just reeling in one, after the other, so there was not time to stop to puke, so I would just keep reelin and pukin! I was miserable, but we caught a lot of fish!


----------



## Greystoke

coastalfaller said:


> Ha, ha. Isn't that the truth!! I love how they always like to get you just at that sweet spot right in the middle of your back. You know that spot that you just can't quite reach?!



Then you have to back into a tree! I hate those bugs. We used to catch them and shove little sticks up their backside and set and watch them fly straight up outa sight, until finally they would tire out and come wafting back down...some of them were good for a few liftoffs before they would give up.


----------



## coastalfaller

tarzanstree said:


> Then you have to back into a tree! I hate those bugs. We used to catch them and shove little sticks up their backside and set and watch them fly straight up outa sight, until finally they would tire out and come wafting back down...some of them were good for a few liftoffs before they would give up.



Absolutely!!!! We'd do that too and then stick them to the roof of the crummy as a warning to their buddies! Sadistic, I know, but it made us feel better!!


----------



## Greystoke

RandyMac said:


> I was falling big Doug Fir on very steep ground, a fair amount of the timber was "goosenecked", meanin' the stump was square with the ground, and the tree turned upward to grow straight up. Often the trunk was oblongated (is that a word?) or oval in shape. On the uphill side, as the tree "leaned" back, the wood is often compressed, gnarled up grain and such.
> Anyway, it was late in the day when I came across such a fir. It was close to 60", sittin' on 100% slope, I wandered around it guessin' the lean with a bullet on a string. The uphill side was cut pretty close to the dirt, as the drop-off on the downhill side was maybe 6 feet. I whipped a Humboldt cut into it without too much stretchin', but when I started the back cut, I ran out of arm length. So I cut a couple toeholds in, and anchored my self with a Bowie knife, stuck my corks in the slots, grabbed up my saw and swung out. I jammed the spikes in, managed to properly start the backcut. It wasn't long before I was havin' little problems, the saw had more leverage than I did, I couldn't pound the wedges in very well while using the saw to cling to the trunk, the yellowjackets I had stirred up earlier were still after me. It was hot, I was sweatin' and filling my shirt with chips and the dammed tree was oozing sap copiously. I was havin' so much fun, I decided that I needed to switch the saw around, so I could reach the far side better. Out with the Bowie again, while I one armed the saw back into the cut, it seemed like a good idea at the time. "Cept the saw was takin' up some of the room I needed to stay put. I slid to one side, using one foot and the knife, continued sawin'. This is where things went to hell, quickly. The saw bucked some, like it was hittin' something real hard, it was, a couple centuries worth of leanin' backwards had compressed the wood something fierce and put abit of a twist in the grain. I tapped at the wedges some more, it was like swingin' an ax under water, I had no power what so ever. I went back to sawin', the tree started popping, it was only then that I considered an escape route....hmmm. Wasn't given much time to think about it, with loud snap, crackle, pops, the SOB started over and grabbed the tip of the bar. I gave a try at tossing the saw out of the way, didn't go so well. The last I saw of it (intact that is) was as I was jumpin' (fallin') off the tree. The poor 050 was embeded right behind the hinge, bar was bent, it was still idleing. I didn't get to see the whole thing, I was rollin' downhill at the time. I'm guessin' the tree tossed the saw off, then rolled and skidded on it. I stood and stared at it for a few moments, kicked some dirt over it, went back up the hill to get the Mac 250. Oh yeah, I learned a couple things alright, and still continued to do crazy things.




Another great story! I can't wait to buy your book pard! That story reminded me of the time I sent my almost brand new 288 husky over this bluff:












Now, it was not this tree that took my saw for a ride, but rather a gnarly old red cedar snag that was out of the pic but leaning hard toward the bluff...anyhow I was 18 years old, and probably not ready for some of the things I ran into in Southeast...well that old snag had a slab in the middle (like they commonly do, ey tramp?), and took my saw for a long ride over this bluff (about a fifty foot bluff)...I thought for sure there would be nothin salvageable on it, what with all the rocks and stumps at the base, but the loggin gods were watchin out for me that day! I walked up to the edge of the bluff and there is my saw, sittin in a big pile of duff, and limbs, idling away, with not a scratch, bent bar, nothing! Definitely lucked out THAT day, but I have also sacrificed a few for the cause


----------



## Greystoke

*My mini-me*

Took out my Little cuttin pardner on a tree job with me Saturday:

He limbed most of this tree with an axe (not the 6 pound axe in this pic, but a smaller one)





Tarzan Jr...tough as nails!:






Tarzan and Jane learning to climb srt with rads system, together!:






Tarzan loves his Jane!


----------



## forestryworks

Awesome when you get the whole family out. You let the little dude fall any?


----------



## Greystoke

forestryworks said:


> Awesome when you get the whole family out. You let the little dude fall any?



I did not let him that day, but I have...with me holdin onto the saw with him of course. I did let him have a little trigger time with my modded 660 buckin some rounds off that pine...hopefully he won't get as hooked as I did at his age! Jane wants me to teach her to run a saw too


----------



## RPM

tarzanstree said:


> Then you have to back into a tree! I hate those bugs. We used to catch them and shove little sticks up their backside and set and watch them fly straight up outa sight, until finally they would tire out and come wafting back down...some of them were good for a few liftoffs before they would give up.



Horseflies and hornets .... little:censored:


----------



## madhatte

Spent the day bucking blowdowns out of the impact areas. Had the good sense to advise my cohorts to use old chains on account of the bullets in the trees; forgot to take the same advice myself. It only takes one AP bullet to tear all the cutters off of one side of a chain. Brand-new, too. Totally unsalvageable.


----------



## forestryworks

Last tree of the day. 28" on the stump. The top hit three smaller trees about 50'+ into the lay and snapped clean off. I nipped a bit of my holding wood off on the far corner. It didn't swing though.


----------



## Greystoke

Keep up the good work


----------



## joesawer

forestryworks said:


> Last tree of the day. 28" on the stump. The top hit three smaller trees about 50'+ into the lay and snapped clean off. I nipped a bit of my holding wood off on the far corner. It didn't swing though.





+1 nice work.
Where you trying to turn that tree away from the others?
A fine hinge like that with just a little cut of the other side will not tend to swing a tree much at all. Sometimes it will help the tree roll off another on the way down.
If you want to know more about swinging a tree let me know and I can share a few tips with you.


----------



## forestryworks

joesawer said:


> +1 nice work.
> Where you trying to turn that tree away from the others?
> A fine hinge like that with just a little cut of the other side will not tend to swing a tree much at all. Sometimes it will help the tree roll off another on the way down.
> If you want to know more about swinging a tree let me know and I can share a few tips with you.



Thanks for the good word. 

Wasn't trying to swing it. My bar was about an inch shorter at the widest point so I started with the tip at the offside and cut a tad too much off is all.

Had to wedge it away from the trail though. 65' tree 8ft. from the trail.


----------



## Gologit

forestryworks said:


> Thanks for the good word.
> 
> Wasn't trying to swing it. My bar was about an inch shorter at the widest point so I started with the tip at the offside and cut a tad too much off is all.
> 
> Had to wedge it away from the trail though. 65' tree 8ft. from the trail.



Looks like you're making good progress. Hang in there. School is open every time you step up to a tree and the learning never stops.


----------



## Greystoke

Gologit said:


> School is open every time you step up to a tree and the learning never stops.



Good advise! Especially when it comes to rotten wood, and snags.


----------



## tramp bushler

tarzanstree said:


> Another great story! I can't wait to buy your book pard! That story reminded me of the time I sent my almost brand new 288 husky over this bluff:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now, it was not this tree that took my saw for a ride, but rather a gnarly old red cedar snag that was out of the pic but leaning hard toward the bluff...anyhow I was 18 years old, and probably not ready for some of the things I ran into in Southeast...well that old snag had a slab in the middle (like they commonly do, ey tramp?), and took my saw for a long ride over this bluff (about a fifty foot bluff)...I thought for sure there would be nothin salvageable on it, what with all the rocks and stumps at the base, but the loggin gods were watchin out for me that day! I walked up to the edge of the bluff and there is my saw, sittin in a big pile of duff, and limbs, idling away, with not a scratch, bent bar, nothing! Definitely lucked out THAT day, but I have also sacrificed a few for the cause



Without a doubt , one of the coolest sounds in the world is a saw idleing away way down the hill from where you had to say bye to it ... ...


----------



## RandyMac

tramp bushler said:


> Without a doubt , one of the coolest sounds in the world is a saw idleing away way down the hill from where you had to say bye to it ... ...



LOL,
and a big relief too.


----------



## Greystoke

tramp bushler said:


> Without a doubt , one of the coolest sounds in the world is a saw idleing away way down the hill from where you had to say bye to it ... ...



Especially for an 18 year old green horn with not much money cuz he just bought that brand new chainsaw that just went over the cliff!


----------



## forestryworks

Last tree of the day. 

While this tree was on easy ground, I spent half the day on some steep ground. 60% slopes, really broken up ground. Rough ground for this part of the world. The kind where you gotta watch how you buck the logs so they don't take off down the slopes. The seasonal naturalist took these photos of me today. She had a blast, asked a lot of questions. I even let her cut an easy tree, her first one.


----------



## forestryworks




----------



## madhatte

Skull Bucket! Can't decide whether I like my SB better than my old Mac "T" -- the suspension is easier, sure, but is it more comfortable? Not certain. Either way, a tin hat is Old School Cool. I rock mine 365.


----------



## oldirty

another reason to look up


----------



## forestryworks

After cutting out the dead half of this double, I had to fall the other half, a good live tree. This is the result.

The big chunk that pulled out of the log, it's as stout as concrete. It won't move at all.

As you can see I missed my lay pretty good. It still didn't hit the trail though.


----------



## forestryworks

The local paper came out and did a little story on me and the snagfalling work I've been doing. Here are some of the pics he took.

This tree was another double. I didn't want to cut where the double was - larger than the bar length. I could have either springboarded and cut higher above the double or cut low. So I cut low. I hit a little dirt falling out the dead rotten double before falling the rest of the tree. Saw cut a tad crooked. Or maybe I held it a tad crooked


----------



## forestryworks




----------



## forestryworks




----------



## Metals406

Great pics Jameson! Makes me want to go cut some trees down!!


----------



## RandyMac

forestryworks said:


> After cutting out the dead half of this double, I had to fall the other half, a good live tree. This is the result.
> 
> The big chunk that pulled out of the log, it's as stout as concrete. It won't move at all.
> 
> As you can see I missed my lay pretty good. It still didn't hit the trail though.



A deeper, steeper undercut might have helped there. You are doing good.


----------



## forestryworks

RandyMac said:


> A deeper, steeper undercut might have helped there. You are doing good.



Thanks for the tip, I see it now. And thanks for the good word.


----------



## forestryworks

Metals406 said:


> Great pics Jameson! Makes me want to go cut some trees down!!



You bet. Maybe sometime I'll get a video, then my mistakes will really show


----------



## RandyMac

Form a picture of what you want the tree to do, what it will do as the undercut closes, how the hinge will tear. After you have the first cut done, use the spikes as a pivot, now swing the bar down, keeping in mind the picture of the undercut closing as you do that. Too shallow causes more problems than too deep, not enough angle, well you know that one. The 1/3 rule is ok, don't get carried away, too deep a cut can get noisy or pinch city will be found. I used a 45% undercut mostly, yep, nearly halfway through.


----------



## stihl sawing

Great pics, Did it make you nervous with them watching you and taking pics. Some nice cuttin you're doing.


----------



## forestryworks

stihl sawing said:


> Great pics, Did it make you nervous with them watching you and taking pics. Some nice cuttin you're doing.



I mis-matched on the face cut a bit, but I re-cut and got it done. Thanks for the good word.


----------



## oldirty

RandyMac said:


> Form a picture of what you want the tree to do, what it will do as the undercut closes, how the hinge will tear. After you have the first cut done, use the spikes as a pivot, now swing the bar down, keeping in mind the picture of the undercut closing as you do that. Too shallow causes more problems than too deep, not enough angle, well you know that one. The 1/3 rule is ok, don't get carried away, too deep a cut can get noisy or pinch city will be found. I used a 45% undercut mostly, yep, nearly halfway through.



siiick pic man!


----------



## slowp

*Happy Days*

Happy days are here. Moderately sized trees are hitting the ground. He started falling today. The trees are marked haphazardly and there's a lot of hunting. The point of the harvest is to open it up around maples so there will be better habitat for the slugs or snails. Whatever, there's some tall second growth in here. 

The faller is happy, he lives just across "the street" and his pickup won't even warm up to get up here.





I didn't want to take my hardhat off for scale. Branches were coming down. I used a full roll of flagging, feathering it out for effect.
Note the rot. 





A long walk, but not much limbing. Nice trees here.


----------



## forestryworks

That looks like fun


----------



## slowp

He says it takes a bit of thought at each tree. They have to come down towards the skid trails, without damaging the others, and there are way more others than there are cut trees. They make a nice noise. I think I'll download some shaky video that I made to mainly get the noise.<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/BNMI7WtrxG0&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/BNMI7WtrxG0&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>


----------



## Greystoke

Sometimes I miss cutting that nice clean coastal second growth.


----------



## palogger

hey slowp how will that block be skidded? skidder or highline


----------



## slowp

Skidder. The owner was there clearing the road out with a little cat with a winch. This is the second entry in the second growth, so there's old trails that work. 

I was up on the hill outside of the unit trying to get a good video but there's too many trees in the way.


----------



## forestryworks

good ol' juniper... a pain in the ass!


----------



## teatersroad

indeed pita, had to delete and repost cropped pics., so out of order.

Treading lightly and learning what I can here. Cutting Western Juniper for a living right now. Admittedly not timber, but trees anyways. A bugger to get in to cut. Contracts for clearing are in the hundreds up to a thousand acres, terrain can be flat or quite steep. Trees are any shape and size, with the med. average on this 800 acre contract at maybe 18" dia at stump and 20' tall, larger trees at >26" and no more than 50' tall, and a lot of small stems that add up to maybe 250 stems per acre +/- 100. They can get pretty shrubby, with branches coming out of the duff. Not a very merchandisable wood. Firewood, fenceposts, house logs, ag. grade, and a few saw logs. Most of what you see will be burned in rx fire in a couple years. Purpose of this thinning is for rangeland and watershed enhancement. Ancients, Cow trees, and a select few get amnesty. 98% get cut. Anyways, I appreciate learning here. First pic, maybe two stems at 20", 35' tall. The near distance in pics. is to be cut. You can barely make out Mt. Jefferson in one pic. Closer in real life, along with The Sisters and others. Regards.


----------



## forestryworks

Here's some poor quality video a friend of mine took on their blackberry, short little clip. Falling a roadside hazard, about a 20ft. tall stob, no top and fairly solid.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/5K5tm9K7jxo&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/5K5tm9K7jxo&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


----------



## schmuck.k

forestryworks said:


> Here's some poor quality video a friend of mine took on their blackberry, short little clip. Falling a roadside hazard, about a 20ft. tall stob, no top and fairly solid.
> 
> for what i could see it looked good


----------



## forestryworks

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/gyQVwtg-pbA&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/gyQVwtg-pbA&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>


----------



## M.D. Vaden

Burvol said:


> Here is a couple of pics from today. I just snapped a couple with my cell phone. I am not in any of them. Nothing too special, just thought I'd share.



The chaps caught my eye.

Then the face area.

Someone not much of a safety glass fan? Not this image, but another in the OP.

Almost like he is whistling a tune in this first pic looking up.


----------



## ropensaddle

M.D. Vaden said:


> The chaps caught my eye.
> 
> Then the face area.
> 
> Someone not much of a safety glass fan? Not this image, but another in the OP.
> 
> Almost like he is whistling a tune in this first pic looking up.


I know that tune lmao:monkey:


----------



## Burvol

M.D. Vaden said:


> The chaps caught my eye.
> 
> Then the face area.
> 
> Someone not much of a safety glass fan? Not this image, but another in the OP.
> 
> Almost like he is whistling a tune in this first pic looking up.



Dad is old school. I got him to wear glasses for a few days. He tells me he has bushy eyebrows, LOL. Squints alot. 

When he packed me out this fall when I about cut my finger off on a stump accident he said, " I have seen more guys cut in the arms, chest, face, than the legs." Kind of a warning to keep an eye on other parts as well. He started falling before they were really around and you can't move in brush in them period. I quit wearing them and will prolly never go back. I have the little cut panels from Madsen's under my pants, and they offer something without the buckles and straps holding on to you in limbs and brush. 

I agree though, being preapred with safe stuff is the way to go. I am a die hard safety glasses man all the way.


----------



## Burvol

I will bring some Spring Chinook to the GTG and barbeque it with my secrect recipe. I hope you will like it. 

I am alive, been busy with a lot of things at home, and I would like to thank all of you for your kind words, and a few of you that sent me some stuff. WOW! That is all I can say. 

Someone down south sent me 5 $20 dollar bills and a 5 or six word note. I cried a little, I really did. Whoever you are, please PM when you can. I love you guys like family here, and I have thought a lot of everyone during my day on the saw, staying focused and kicking butt the best I can. One day last week I caught fire and cut 8 loads, and bucked 6 of it. Good day, and it felt good. I let it all out.


----------



## mdavlee

Nice to see you posting again. Wondered when there was going to be more fish pictures. Wish I lived on the same coast as some of ya'll.


----------



## Gologit

Nice fish! Good to hear you're staying busy.


----------



## forestryworks

glad to see you're back! Nice fish too.


----------



## slowp

Yaaay. Get prepared to not catch as many fish. I think I will start fishing on the lower river so not as many are going to get by. 

Now, how do I fish it?


----------



## forestryworks

Don't hit the rail! This thing did a lot of talking so I did a lot of looking.


----------



## forestryworks

using Volks-man's 066 in these pictures. Also in the last two videos as well.


----------



## slowp

Forestryworks! That was a good job making that rotted out tree land where it did.


----------



## forestryworks

slowp said:


> Forestryworks! That was a good job making that rotted out tree land where it did.



Thank you. I was lucky in that the tree leaned to the axe I placed on the rock in the background. Any other lean and I would have passed it up. It tore out my holding wood on my offside (the left side of the stump.)


----------



## Burvol

Don't go too hard on me, my first day shirtless of 2010. It's been cold and wet here to say the least. I have a bunch of steelhead pics from the last three weeks, but I won't bore you. Here is a nice Chinook I picked up last week. 






My mom, the fish killer I turned her into with her second fish this spring. Not too bad, since she only fishes with me, on Sundays as of late. I told her to take her cap off for the picture, but she said her hair was bad. It was funny, she was pumped. I know I am bias, but my Mom rules.


----------



## Jacob J.

Gologit said:


> Nice fish! Good to hear you're staying busy.



:agree2:



forestryworks said:


> Don't hit the rail! This thing did a lot of talking so I did a lot of looking.



Good work...



Burvol said:


> Don't go too hard on me, my first day shirtless of 2010. It's been cold and wet here to say the least. I have a bunch of steelhead pics from the last three weeks, but I won't bore you. Here is a nice Chinook I picked up last week.
> 
> My mom, the fish killer I turned her into with her second fish this spring. Not too bad, since she only fishes with me, on Sundays as of late. I told her to take her cap off for the picture, but she said her hair was bad. It was funny, she was pumped. I know I am bias, but my Mom rules.



Hey J, you need to get some sun. 

Living in the Hood River valley makes for one dark winter. Good to see you fishing with your mom, moms totally rock.


----------



## Metals406

Good to see you posting again Burv!!


----------



## Metals406

forestryworks said:


> Don't hit the rail! This thing did a lot of talking so I did a lot of looking.



Great job Jameson!! That baby is nut'n but rind!!


----------



## joesawer

Nice fish Burvol. If you where not such a little guy they would be impressive! Lol
Nice job Jamison. Those trees will build your confidence, so be careful to keep yourself inside the laws of physics! Lol don't ask me how I know!


----------



## Greystoke

Burvol said:


> I will bring some Spring Chinook to the GTG and barbeque it with my secrect recipe. I hope you will like it.
> 
> I am alive, been busy with a lot of things at home, and I would like to thank all of you for your kind words, and a few of you that sent me some stuff. WOW! That is all I can say.
> 
> Someone down south sent me 5 $20 dollar bills and a 5 or six word note. I cried a little, I really did. Whoever you are, please PM when you can. I love you guys like family here, and I have thought a lot of everyone during my day on the saw, staying focused and kicking butt the best I can. One day last week I caught fire and cut 8 loads, and bucked 6 of it. Good day, and it felt good. I let it all out.



Nice fish and nice to see you around here again pard!


----------



## hammerlogging

tarzanstree said:


> Nice fish and nice to see you around here again pard!



Me too!

Forestryworks, way to find a spot to get a hinge in somewhere in that shell!

Back to real felling Tues. after mostly bucking heli wood from last winters cut. Too bad I missed the cooler spring weather, back to steep and Cambodian conditions now. But the timber looks good, grin and bear the sweat, the drenching humidity and sweat. I had a half day reminder of it on Friday, will try and get some pics.

Best to all!!!!


----------



## forestryworks

hammerlogging said:


> Me too!
> 
> Forestryworks, way to find a spot to get a hinge in somewhere in that shell!
> 
> Back to real felling Tues. after mostly bucking heli wood from last winters cut. Too bad I missed the cooler spring weather, back to steep and Cambodian conditions now. But the timber looks good, grin and bear the sweat, the drenching humidity and sweat. I had a half day reminder of it on Friday, will try and get some pics.
> 
> Best to all!!!!



Good to hear from ya. 

This humidity is nasty, but as you say, grin and bear it.


----------



## Dayto

Burvol said:


> I will bring some Spring Chinook to the GTG and barbeque it with my secrect recipe. I hope you will like it.
> 
> I am alive, been busy with a lot of things at home, and I would like to thank all of you for your kind words, and a few of you that sent me some stuff. WOW! That is all I can say.
> 
> Someone down south sent me 5 $20 dollar bills and a 5 or six word note. I cried a little, I really did. Whoever you are, please PM when you can. I love you guys like family here, and I have thought a lot of everyone during my day on the saw, staying focused and kicking butt the best I can. One day last week I caught fire and cut 8 loads, and bucked 6 of it. Good day, and it felt good. I let it all out.




If you ever come over to Vancouver island , I got a camp and a boat with your name on it can you say springs , Hali's , and linger's .Anyways its open door when ever you get the urge . All the best Burvol


----------



## redprospector

forestryworks said:


> Good to hear from ya.
> 
> This humidity is nasty, but as you say, grin and bear it.



Yeah, I think the humidity hit 27% here yesterday. I thought I was going to have to grow a set of gills when the thermometer hit 70 degrees. :hmm3grin2orange:
Now, if I just had some real work to do. 

Andy


----------



## Gologit

redprospector said:


> Yeah, I think the humidity hit 27% here yesterday. I thought I was going to have to grow a set of gills when the thermometer hit 70 degrees. :hmm3grin2orange:
> Now, if I just had some real work to do.
> 
> Andy



Just wait...pretty soon you'll be begging for time off. :greenchainsaw: I am already.


----------



## slowp

Quit whining! Our humidity is 100%. The mildew smell is strengthening. The slugs are doing well. Damp Rid is my friend.


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> Quit whining! Our humidity is 100%. The mildew smell is strengthening. The slugs are doing well. Damp Rid is my friend.



What's Damp Rid?


----------



## hammerlogging

my question is what does it take to get a jammer operator?

And 2 good hookers.... chokersetters that is.

The real logger type please.


----------



## redprospector

Gologit said:


> Just wait...pretty soon you'll be begging for time off. :greenchainsaw: I am already.



I can't wait.
Neither can my banker.

Andy


----------



## Burvol

Did lots of this last month. 






That was a Friday, having fun. Kind of a high stump, embarressing, lol 






Dude, this Pine swung around a looonng ways. Uphill to boot. Risky trying to defy gravity, it usually never works. I was pleased. It was about 4 bushel too. 4 32's. 






They said leave the twin by the RMZ, no way can you get it with out crossing the line....I said we'll see about that


----------



## Burvol

Dayto said:


> If you ever come over to Vancouver island , I got a camp and a boat with your name on it can you say springs , Hali's , and linger's .Anyways its open door when ever you get the urge . All the best Burvol



I would like that very much. Those are three of my top fish to catch and consume, hands down! Thank you bud :yourock:


----------



## forestryworks

Hell yeah, Burv! Nice pictures.


----------



## coastalfaller

Great pics, Burv! Nice to see you again!


----------



## Burvol

Thank you!


----------



## hammerlogging

coastalfaller said:


> Great pics, Burv! Nice to see you again!



####in studin it again aint he


----------



## Greystoke

Burvol said:


> They said leave the twin by the RMZ, no way can you get it with out crossing the line....I said we'll see about that



Pickin on the twins. Good job pard, looked like fun!


----------



## mdavlee

Nice pictures Burvol. Glad to see you back to killing trees.


----------



## Gologit

Nice drop. I like that home-made springboard, too.


----------



## ropensaddle

Gologit said:


> Nice drop. I like that home-made springboard, too.



Question how do you get up on those spring boards with no oh #### handles?


----------



## RandyMac

Well, Rope, you don't ask yer buddy for a boost. I used to stick an axe or Pulaski in the tree and use it for a oh #### handle.


----------



## Cedarkerf

More cool pics


----------



## ropensaddle

RandyMac said:


> Well, Rope, you don't ask yer buddy for a boost. I used to stick an axe or Pulaski in the tree and use it for a oh #### handle.



Lol thats what I get fer axing lol I have thought of using a spring board a time or two but I don't even have an ax sides it would pull out on me in the halfway mark I just know it lmfao,.


----------



## Greystoke

ropensaddle said:


> Lol thats what I get fer axing lol I have thought of using a spring board a time or two but I don't even have an ax sides it would pull out on me in the halfway mark I just know it lmfao,.



When you got a rope en saddle, you dont need an oh #### handle!


----------



## RandyMac

I have climbed the cut end of a butt log using an axe and being pulled up by the sawchain on a geardrive, wearing corks helped.


----------



## ropensaddle

Welp it happened was on the skid steer it is and oldie and was moving some brush and a friggin limb slapped me in my noggin, about a four inch sob too, dern spring poles and no rops make fer a knot head. I had a flask back to me fightin days lol was lookin fer the sob that hit me with the ball bat!


----------



## RandyMac

Getting hit in the head always made me mad.


----------



## ropensaddle

RandyMac said:


> Getting hit in the head always made me mad.



Yup me too one knothead to another


----------



## RandyMac

Well, Rope we don't need to form a Knothead Club, there would be too many members and we all know who we are.


----------



## ropensaddle

RandyMac said:


> Well, Rope we don't need to form a Knothead Club, there would be too many members and we all know who we are.



Yup I think many of us have saw dust in our veins and acorns in our head lol.


----------



## madhatte

You guys are talkin' crazy. I never got hit in the head, not once.

*BONK*


----------



## ropensaddle

madhatte said:


> You guys are talkin' crazy. I never got hit in the head, not once.
> 
> *BONK*



Well, in my defense it was at home and messing with a brush pile getting the good rounds out!
Mad I think ya must not remember, been a while ehhhhhh. It was for me too, my tractor was the last one. I have old school equipment, no protection from above or side; I guess its getting time to buy some metal and weld some sorta rops.


----------



## bitzer

Hey great pics Burv! Nice fish and nice wood. Just curious, what are the sloping cuts in the stump below the jack all about? I've never jacked anything. Just wondering. Glad to hear things are coming around for you. 




Forestry- those hollowed out sobs can be one hell of a rush! Good work man!


----------



## Gologit

RandyMac said:


> Well, Rope we don't need to form a Knothead Club, there would be too many members and we all know who we are.



Yup.


----------



## RandyMac

Morning Bob.


----------



## Burvol

Nice sticks yesterday, this one was 4 bushel. There were plenty more, just did not have time for photos. I was scrambling to get this piece cut before we move out and the next rain hits. Spent 9 hours in the brush and 8 on the saw, took today off.


----------



## Greystoke

Nice sticks indeed! Wish I was there to mow a few with ya!


----------



## Gologit

RandyMac said:


> Morning Bob.



Good afternoon, Randy.


----------



## RandyMac

Hey Burv!!! You need a bigger saw, something in the 6 cube range.


----------



## Burvol

Good afternoon fellas! 

I'd like to cut with you someday Cody, maybe we'll get the chance.

Mr. Bitzercreek, I need to pick out some of your spinners, it's almost that time for the hardware bite on the salmon and steelhead. They will see their share of use in real world testing. I'm sure I will find a color/blade/bead combo that works. There is always that one surprise spinner that everyone wants, lol. 

Bob! Good afternoon! Hope you have a good weekend and rest up bud. I see you logging in here (AS) super early, and still get out the door before the first bird whistles a peep, lol. Randy, you don't count...Mr. Night Owl Jail Bird! Your right, that is definetly 6 cube wood. I picked up a 395. Right now I'm having too much fun with my ported 390 I built. It actually is a runner. But I'm sure a bunch of people will show up to the GTG with 90cc saws that really cut. 

Brian, I look forward to meeting you and your wife this next weekend. I bet we have fished a lot of the same water 
You can relate to my madness...the fish maggott.


----------



## RandyMac

Have you tried Castmasters, we used the two tone brass and chrome on the Van Duzen and Mattole rivers with good results. They work well when you need to cast under willows and other overhanging brush. The big chrome spinners work on the Klamath, but dodging arrows to fish the lower Klamath gets tiresome, to say nothing about all the gillnets that are clogging the river. Time for barbwire wrapped hay bales.


----------



## slowp

RandyMac said:


> Have you tried Castmasters, we used the two tone brass and chrome on the Van Duzen and Mattole rivers with good results. They work well when you need to cast under willows and other overhanging brush. The big chrome spinners work on the Klamath, but dodging arrows to fish the lower Klamath gets tiresome, to say nothing about all the gillnets that are clogging the river. Time for barbwire wrapped hay bales.



I was able to dodge the arrows and caught one at (see if I can remember to spell it ) Weitchpitch. I think I butchered the spelling. That place where the narrow highway curves start or end and sometimes there'd be a herd of pigs in the road. Near where the Klamath and Trinity join. On the Klamath. 

I was told I was lucky to have gotten out alive but all two of the people I saw were very nice and congratulated me on my fish. 

Hey Bob! I went to the Wal Marche determined to find a suitable camera. A young lad spent quite a lot of time explaining the virtues of a camera, and I was going to buy it, but then when they went to get one, they were out!

So, I moseyed over to the K-Marche and bought one for less and I hope it does OK. 

I am ready, soon as I learn to work the camera, to be the official photographer at the GTG as delegated. 

I have to work tomorrow. At least run out and see what is going on.


----------



## slowp

The Used Dog posed for learning how to work the camera. The "sports" setting and some cropping (the house is in disarray after the trip to town)
resulted in this. 







Then I zoomed for a closeup of Old Scarnose. Apparently too close. But you can see he is scarred for life. 






More practice will occur before next weekend. OK, back to fish and falling.


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> I was able to dodge the arrows and caught one at (see if I can remember to spell it ) Weitchpitch. I think I butchered the spelling. That place where the narrow highway curves start or end and sometimes there'd be a herd of pigs in the road. Near where the Klamath and Trinity join. On the Klamath.
> 
> I was told I was lucky to have gotten out alive but all two of the people I saw were very nice and congratulated me on my fish.
> 
> Hey Bob! I went to the Wal Marche determined to find a suitable camera. A young lad spent quite a lot of time explaining the virtues of a camera, and I was going to buy it, but then when they went to get one, they were out!
> 
> So, I moseyed over to the K-Marche and bought one for less and I hope it does OK.
> 
> I am ready, soon as I learn to work the camera, to be the official photographer at the GTG as delegated.
> 
> I have to work tomorrow. At least run out and see what is going on.



Weitchapec? It's an Indian word meaning "we're lost but the fishing is really good".


----------



## slowp

Gologit said:


> Weitchapec? It's an Indian word meaning "we're lost but the fishing is really good".



That's it. Between the bustling metropoli of Orleans and Hoopah. Maybe they were nice because I had a "It's Hard To Be Humble If You're Norwegian" bumper sticker at the time on my fishing vehicle. 

Nah, the Weitchapecians were nice that day.


----------



## slowp

*Stumpology 101*

I took some pictures of the tall trees while out wandering checking up on stuff yesterday. Their stumps too. Can anybody explain why the stump was trimmed off a bit? 
Here's the stump.





Here's the used to be attached tree.





Some more pictures of trees on the ground and my beautiful assistant.





A longbutt--OK to do.





Rot + Sweep= longbutt.


----------



## hammerlogging

If you're talking about the first 2 pics, it was the root pull where they used the root flare to get some side pull- tore the root out the stump as they pulled it, then they trimed the flare off the log so it would log better. A good use for a root flare, good wood for pulling trees side hill, just dont break any wood!

Little bit of splinter pull there. Lucky the faller could cover his butt and long butt it because of rot


----------



## bitzer

Burvol said:


> Mr. Bitzercreek, I need to pick out some of your spinners, it's almost that time for the hardware bite on the salmon and steelhead. They will see their share of use in real world testing. I'm sure I will find a color/blade/bead combo that works. There is always that one surprise spinner that everyone wants, lol.



Hey Burv,

I'll PM ya my contact info. I'll ship you all the colors and sizes I've got. That way no need to choose. Keep on keepin your lines tight and your timber tighter!


----------



## Cedarkerf

A little job did for son and daughter in law last night. some leaning Alders the worst one leaning over the neighbors old imobile pick upput a bull rope in to ensure it went where I wanted just little 25-30"ers.


----------



## 056 kid

Its too bad my phone/camera broke. I could post a pic of the renovation I did on the 2007 "work truck" as we easterners call them. 

over 7000 worth of damage. . .

Wind took a poplar from me and the sob fell on the truck. I still cant believe it, i thought about selling the saw and getting out of timber falling all together. 

So who else has dropped a tree on pickup?


----------



## RandyMac

Bummer Ted, I haven't, but I lost a 36" round down a hill, right into the driver's door of my Dad's Chevy 1/2 ton. 
Ted, you can't give up yet, you have some massive ####-ups left to do, some of the same ones we have all done. Next on your list of ####-ups is to miss-guess lean, top weight and root strength, then undercut way too much and have the bastard uproot. Carefull where you park.


----------



## slowp

RandyMac said:


> Bummer Ted, I haven't, but I lost a 36" round down a hill, right into the driver's door of my Dad's Chevy 1/2 ton.
> Ted, you can't give up yet, you have some massive ####-ups left to do, some of the same ones we have all done. Next on your list of ####-ups is to miss-guess lean, top weight and root strength, then undercut way too much and have the bastard uproot. Carefull where you park.



I have seen that last one done. The tree uprooted a smaller one which went in the opposite direction and it almost got my pickup, and the faller's boss's pickup. A two for one miss. One of those whew moments. 

A faller came close to nailing their ride home last summer. His tree hit a snag which hit a snag, which barely missed their crummie. 

You are not the first to nail a rig, and won't be the last.


----------



## bitzer

Had a rain day yesterday. Tuesday was the first day I ran a saw for more than a few minutes in the last month. I was put on maintainance for the boss's rental properties. Finally got a break from hanging doors and windows. 

So I got to fell some White Pine snags in the rain! I love the smell of wet pine! I don't get to cut softies often and wishin they were bar sized, but it was fun. A lot of them have been dying over the last few years. This one I put uphill because of a nearby atv path.


----------



## bitzer

Heres another one I brought around the little guy that was twisted around the snag. I cut at least 50 of these yesterday in a 30 acre plot and there were others that didn't look so hot. The bottom pic shows what looks like a mold or a fungus to me. It seems that the trees are dying in groups. This plot was bunched logged about five years ago and the die off has been going on for two I would say. I was told these pines were planted over 30 years ago. I wish they grew here like they do in the PNW or the old growth we had around here 150 years ago. It was a fun day in the rain for me though!


----------



## Burvol

056 kid said:


> Its too bad my phone/camera broke. I could post a pic of the renovation I did on the 2007 "work truck" as we easterners call them.
> 
> over 7000 worth of damage. . .
> 
> Wind took a poplar from me and the sob fell on the truck. I still cant believe it, i thought about selling the saw and getting out of timber falling all together.
> 
> So who else has dropped a tree on pickup?




Damn bro, that is rough. I'm really sorry to hear that. If your not fired, I would not even consider leaving. Stick with it and it will stick with you. A reminder I guess. Don't bag it. I'm off tomorrow, you should give me a shout some time if you want. I have yet to be notified if we drew our tags for the big buck unit. Soon though.


----------



## ropensaddle

bitzercreek1 said:


> Hey Burv,
> 
> Keep on keepin your lines tight and your timber tighter!



:hmm3grin2orange: keep the bugs off your bumper and the smokey's off your tail, we'll see ya on the next trip This is ropensaddle signing off see ya on the flip flop, bye, bye---


----------



## madhatte

056 kid said:


> i thought about selling the saw and getting out of timber falling all together.



Pretty sure Buzz Martin's got a song about that.


----------



## Gologit

Burvol said:


> Damn bro, that is rough. I'm really sorry to hear that. If your not fired, I would not even consider leaving. Stick with it and it will stick with you. A reminder I guess. Don't bag it.



Good advice. And if you _do_ get canned just take your experience on down the road with you. There are other jobs. And other days.


----------



## redprospector

056 kid said:


> Its too bad my phone/camera broke. I could post a pic of the renovation I did on the 2007 "work truck" as we easterners call them.
> 
> over 7000 worth of damage. . .
> 
> Wind took a poplar from me and the sob fell on the truck. I still cant believe it, i thought about selling the saw and getting out of timber falling all together.
> 
> So who else has dropped a tree on pickup?



Hahaha. Hell, I'll own up to it. Didn't quite do 7 grand in dammage though. 
That's how you learn, by screwing up. The only reason I'd advise you to hang it up is if you can't learn by your screw up's.

Mine was an 84 Toyota 4x4 pickup. I parked on the side of the road at the top of my strip. We weren't supposed to drop any trees that would go into the road until they got equipment over there. I knew I could keep this Doug Fir out of the road, but I mis-judged the height. The very tip top of the tree hit dead center of the front edge of the hood. Put a fist sized dent about an inch deep, never did fix it. It was a good reminder to not get over confident, and watch where I park. 

Andy


----------



## RandyMac

Ted my lad, looking back through your pictures, I see notable progress, you work at it and it shows. Trees will try to get you back, often enough, stuff happens. I have had my moments, backwards, sideways, early, late, generally noisy. It never fails, anytime you really screw up, the noise level goes way up. But what would working in the woods be without noisy events now and then.
One of these days, I will tell you why I hate powerlines.


----------



## stihl sawing

RandyMac said:


> Ted my lad, looking back through your pictures, I see notable progress, you work at it and it shows. Trees will try to get you back, often enough, stuff happens. I have had my moments, backwards, sideways, early, late, generally noisy. It never fails, anytime you really screw up, the noise level goes way up. But what would working in the woods be without noisy events now and then.
> One of these days, I will tell you why I hate powerlines.


Ahh crap, Just about forgot it. I can tell a powerline story too.lol


----------



## hammerlogging

Sorry Ted.

Hey Forestryworks, its all photochop:












I was cutting out an SMZ, this was a severely fire burnt and subsequently rotten stump leaving no hingewood to let me take it sidehill so I did this. Let me hit my hole.


----------



## forestryworks

There it is!  Well done Joe.


----------



## joesawer

056 kid said:


> Its too bad my phone/camera broke. I could post a pic of the renovation I did on the 2007 "work truck" as we easterners call them.
> 
> over 7000 worth of damage. . .
> 
> Wind took a poplar from me and the sob fell on the truck. I still cant believe it, i thought about selling the saw and getting out of timber falling all together.
> 
> So who else has dropped a tree on pickup?






The summer of 93 I was cutting a small sand of nice yellow pine from around a house in Alabama.
The landowner walked me around and showed me all the things he wanted done and things he did not want torn up.
The house was at the top of the list of things not to hit. Second was a 71 Dodge with a big block that he was going to restore.
Well the Dodge was parked in an clearing with head high weeds. Just after I started the job a limb broke out of a double and hit me in the head. I learned what cranial fluid taste like that day. I still have a dent in my head lol.
I was sick for about a month after that and stayed away from the house until I got to feeling better.
I remembered the house but forgot the car in the weeds and dead centered it with the top of a 30 inch tree. I remembered it when I saw the glass blowing through the air.
I tore down 7 spans of 3 phase on new years day. There was some unhappy people that day!


----------



## bitzer

Thats pretty badass joe!


----------



## ropensaddle

And thats in summer:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## 056 kid

Im could never get out of the woods. Thanks for the kind words, I havent been around much because my ####in computer has quit working... My boss was pretty hot for a few hours but he is back to his self. he even told me not to be so hard on my self. I am just having some bad luck I guess.
i put a new distributor cap on my 86 cutt 2 weeks and it came apart today when I went to put new wires on it. its junk,made in usa junk. now i cant get the firing order right. its probably the old cap, who knows... 

Did I mention that i broke my phone?


----------



## joesawer

056 kid said:


> Im could never get out of the woods. Thanks for the kind words, I havent been around much because my ####in computer has quit working... My boss was pretty hot for a few hours but he is back to his self. he even told me not to be so hard on my self. I am just having some bad luck I guess.
> i put a new distributor cap on my 86 cutt 2 weeks and it came apart today when I went to put new wires on it. its junk,made in usa junk. now i cant get the firing order right. its probably the old cap, who knows...
> 
> Did I mention that i broke my phone?





Sounds like it is about time to clear your head.


----------



## tramp bushler

RandyMac said:


> Bummer Ted, I haven't, but I lost a 36" round down a hill, right into the driver's door of my Dad's Chevy 1/2 ton.
> Ted, you can't give up yet, you have some massive ####-ups left to do, some of the same ones we have all done. Next on your list of ####-ups is to miss-guess lean, top weight and root strength, then undercut way too much and have the bastard uproot. Carefull where you park.


.. I,ll 2nd that .


----------



## mile9socounty

It's nice to see that this place hasn't changed much over a couple months. As always. Nice photo's everyone. Kudos.


----------



## tramp bushler

*got new pick but still stymied*

. I got a bunck of pics off my phone but still havn't got them to photobucket. / . Yellow cedar on Chichagof . nothing big ... Any one have a complete tranny and hyd valve array for a 360 Timber Jack they want rid of ???????????? . I found one that had a fire that started in the battery compartment but got put out fairly soon . but most of the hoses got burned off the tranny and the controls ..


----------



## coastalfaller

tramp bushler said:


> . I got a bunck of pics off my phone but still havn't got them to photobucket. / . Yellow cedar on Chichagof . nothing big ... Any one have a complete tranny and hyd valve array for a 360 Timber Jack they want rid of ???????????? . I found one that had a fire that started in the battery compartment but got put out fairly soon . but most of the hoses got burned off the tranny and the controls ..



How's your yellow cedar there, Tramp? You have much rot or stain in it?


----------



## 056 kid

Damn y'all. I wish i had my phone so I could take some pics. Been on the WV VA line finishing up all week. Been getting 2 41 ton loads a day, cutting small under grown wood. Mostly red & chesnut oak. The stuff is over 60 years old and is less than 35 feet tall and 10 dbh. Mix the mountain laurel and the heat along with a cable skidder with the cable at the end of its life and you are having some REAL FUN!!
Any way, I finished up today, cut some nice red oaks down in a draw. The cherry of them all was a tall straight clear red oak in the neighborhood of 50'' across the stump. I put a big box face in it with the 660 & 20" bar. I had to block the face out in 4 pieces, cracking them out with wedges. Put a snipe on the stump and got all the heart wood that I could without compromising accuracy. Put two wedges in the back along with a rusty 20 ton bottle jack. Boss man said he "aint ever seen anyone cut no timber like you boy", I guess nobody is into throwing trees up hill around here. Me doing that saved toting a D5 80 some miles one way to shove a road to get the timber by the butt. Fun stuff that I would have liked to share via pictures. O well.

I also scratched my retina at about 10:00 am today. I finally went to the doctor after I couldn not find anything in my eye after about an hour in front of the bathroom mirror. I thought thats what happened, some wood got in my eye but no. I guess a chip smacked my eye ball and didn't stick. When it happened there was no discomfort, my right eye just got blurry. I got me some drugs to make sure it heals good. 

Yep had a pretty good week all in all, lost some weight, made fun of the lazy ass loader operator, fell timber, found a few good trout holes, & got payed.

now


----------



## bitzer

I wish you had your camera too Kid! I'd like to have seen that process with a big red. Its good to see and hear about the real action in the world.


----------



## forestryworks

Here's a picture my old man took Tuesday. He came up for a day and tramped around in the woods with me.

I think there's more, waitin' the picture cd's to be mailed to me.

I know, always wear corks on springboards. But look behind the tree, rocks like that all over. Thank god I had a flat rock to leave the stump on.


----------



## Metals406

forestryworks said:


> Here's a picture my old man took Tuesday. He came up for a day and tramped around in the woods with me.
> 
> I think there's more, waitin' the picture cd's to be mailed to me.
> 
> I know, always wear corks on springboards. But look behind the tree, rocks like that all over. Thank god I had a flat rock to leave the stump on.


----------



## bitzer

Awesome Forestry! Great pic man!


----------



## redprospector

Great picture.
So your dad's a photographer too eh? 

Andy


----------



## forestryworks

redprospector said:


> Great picture.
> So your dad's a photographer too eh?
> 
> Andy



When he ain't enslaving himself at the drugstore... he tries. I'm ready to see how the rest of the pictures came out.


----------



## stihl sawing

Awesome pic Forestryworks. Really neat pic and situation you was in. I would have been scared to death. Good job and thanks for the time to post all the pics.


----------



## forestryworks

stihl sawing said:


> Awesome pic Forestryworks. Really neat pic and situation you was in. I would have been scared to death. Good job and thanks for the time to post all the pics.



You bet man, thank you for the good word.

More pics coming, if my terd headed brother will email them to me.

"had to go eat cake", he says. :monkey:


----------



## Metals406

forestryworks said:


> You bet man, thank you for the good word.
> 
> More pics coming, if my terd headed brother will email them to me.
> 
> "had to go eat cake", he says. :monkey:



What is he? . . Marie-Antoinette? Hahaha


----------



## forestryworks

Metals406 said:


> What is he? . . Marie-Antoinette? Hahaha



mostly a bullheaded turd haha.


----------



## redprospector

forestryworks said:


> mostly a bullheaded turd haha.



Oh man. That's one of them woistest kind of turds.

Andy


----------



## madhatte

FW, it won't let me rep you again yet! 

Good work there, especially making the most of wonky terrain. Can't wait to see more of those pics.


----------



## forestryworks

32" at the cut. Left a tall stump - 4.5ft. Cat face below and lots of rot.


----------



## schmuck.k

*forestryworks*

looking good man keep it up


----------



## stihl sawing

Love em.


----------



## forestryworks

A pine roadside hazard from this morning. First tree of the day. Big lightning scar, runs about 20ft through the tree.

Had to cut 7 other trees down to make room for the large crown on this thing.

I managed to NOT hit the little wildlife snag at the lower edge of this slope. That oughta make some of them state folks happy.


----------



## forestryworks

An oak snag on the horse trail. Got about 110 more snags on 3 trails. 
Almost finished up the southern half of this state park. 
Start the northern half in the fall.





Gunning just to the left of the tree in the background that's to the immediate right of this snag.


----------



## Metals406

I have a complaint! Your stumps look to good, you're making us look bad.


----------



## forestryworks

Metals406 said:


> I have a complaint! Your stumps look to good, you're making us look bad.



Follow my trails, you'll see plenty of ALAP'd stumps haha. I toss what I cut off. Toss it far and away.


----------



## Metals406

forestryworks said:


> Follow my trails, you'll see plenty of ALAP'd stumps haha. I toss what I cut off. Toss it far and away.



Stump tossing. . . I've never done that. :Eye::Eye:


----------



## forestryworks

Metals406 said:


> Stump tossing. . . I've never done that. :Eye::Eye:



It helps to eat spinach


----------



## tailhold

Really cool pic's
Snags can keep you on your toe's.
Sweet cutting, on a springboard.


----------



## forestryworks

More from the springboard snag.


----------



## forestryworks

This last pic is a good example of why you don't set a springboard notch
where the holding wood will be. (My springboard is lower right hand
corner.)


----------



## forestryworks

Telling the old man to move...


----------



## forestryworks




----------



## forestryworks




----------



## Metals406

Tell your old man good job on them there pics!

Now we just have to get you paid for all them trees you're dumping.


----------



## Jabuol

It's good to see somebody that knows what a springboard is.


----------



## Burvol

forestryworks said:


> Here's a picture my old man took Tuesday. He came up for a day and tramped around in the woods with me.
> 
> I think there's more, waitin' the picture cd's to be mailed to me.
> 
> I know, always wear corks on springboards. But look behind the tree, rocks like that all over. Thank god I had a flat rock to leave the stump on.



Your pictures and your work look great buddy! 

As far as the corks on the springboard... I wouldn't give two squirts of piss to what anyone would say negative about your cutting. Your doing just fine. Keep it up


----------



## forestryworks

Burvol said:


> Your pictures and your work look great buddy!
> 
> As far as the corks on the springboard... I wouldn't give two squirts of piss to what anyone would say negative about your cutting. Your doing just fine. Keep it up



Thanks for the good word.


----------



## 056 kid

Nice pics Forestry! looks like you are having fun!!


----------



## mdavlee

Nice pictures as always. 

056 you getting drowned today up your way?


----------



## Burvol

056 kid said:


> Nice pics Forestry! looks like you are having fun!!



TED!!! WE GOT OUR TAGS! 

Answer yer phone...oh wait


----------



## slowp

Does that mean Elk will replace Salmon?


----------



## hammerlogging

not falling action, but my strip from yesterday, above a little creek up in a holler. cutting >17 in. dbh with openings where appropriate.


----------



## bitzer

Cool pics Hammer! Are those strips tough to start? The snag thinnings I've done around here can be a mother with how tight the canopy can get. It can be tough finding a hole in the green.


----------



## Burvol

*Madre*






Took my mom out to the big water yesterday. She caught a really chubby 13lbs. Steelhead. Mom is coming into her own with the salmon/steelhead game. A proud son I am!


----------



## Metals406

Burvol said:


> Took my mom out to the big water yesterday. She caught a really chubby 13lbs. Steelhead. Mom is coming into her own with the salmon/steelhead game. A proud son I am!



Nice!!


----------



## 056 kid

mdavlee said:


> Nice pictures as always.
> 
> 056 you getting drowned today up your way?



its not too bad, got shorted out 1/2 a day today cause the skidders stopped going (mud). 

Very humid though. as Joe said, our appalachian mountains get like the cambodian rain forest in summer. . .


----------



## 056 kid

hammerlogging said:


> not falling action, but my strip from yesterday, above a little creek up in a holler. cutting >17 in. dbh with openings where appropriate.



You better find them logs!


----------



## 056 kid

Burvol said:


> TED!!! WE GOT OUR TAGS!
> 
> Answer yer phone...oh wait



Awww CHIT!!


----------



## Burvol

056 kid said:


> Awww CHIT!!



SON!!!! Whoop your azz for beign a hermit! That's my trick


----------



## Meadow Beaver

056 kid said:


> its not too bad, got shorted out 1/2 a day today cause the skidders stopped going (mud).
> 
> Very humid though. as Joe said, *our appalachian mountains get like the **cambodian rain forest in summer*. . .



Yeah, I think that's an understatement.


----------



## hammerlogging

056 kid said:


> You better find them logs!



Burv is the one that said it looks like Cambodia.

We've got hookers to find em for us. And they do. If they don't, its In Trouble City. The old line is, "#### the hookers!!!" We add lots of riging cuts so evertything can pull through the tops easier.

But we don't mean it. Heck, I enjoy hooking every once in a while.
No, its not hard to start a hole, We'll each drop down to more or less the bottom downstream corner of our strip, and find a hole to start with, or make one if we have to  that way when the faller on the strip next to mine gets to his upstream side I'm not throwing trees near him.

A lot more weight in a green tree than snag falling. The momentum helps.


----------



## 1I'dJak

I just wanna tell you guys I enjoy your threads a lot more than the commercial climbing...I'm a tree climber that tops trees in the forest industry as well as does residential tree care. I've learned alot from the climbing thread but also have to wade through a lot of egotistical, holier that thou crap. You guys just offer up info with a sense of comraderie & positivity and don't constantly slag & dis each other's work. More of a team than a group of divas! Figured I'd throw in a picture as well... Not a falling pic, but it was a big ol' cedar snag I had to top...bout 7' on the but with a coon in it...


----------



## slowp

hammerlogging said:


> Burv is the one that said it looks like Cambodia.
> 
> We've got hookers to find em for us. And they do. If they don't, its In Trouble City. The old line is, "#### the hookers!!!" We add lots of riging cuts so evertything can pull through the tops easier.
> 
> But we don't mean it. Heck, I enjoy hooking every once in a while.
> No, its not hard to start a hole, We'll each drop down to more or less the bottom downstream corner of our strip, and find a hole to start with, or make one if we have to  that way when the faller on the strip next to mine gets to his upstream side I'm not throwing trees near him.
> 
> A lot more weight in a green tree than snag falling. The momentum helps.



When I first got to the midwest, during exile, I thought that the haze from the humidity was all smog. I'd never experienced it, and wondered what I'd gotten myself into. It is a little bit more comforting to find out the air is mostly wet...just a little. 

Now, you made me remember that there is a book called _The Happy Hooker_.


----------



## ropensaddle

1I'dJak said:


> I just wanna tell you guys I enjoy your threads a lot more than the commercial climbing...I'm a tree climber that tops trees in the forest industry as well as does residential tree care. I've learned alot from the climbing thread but also have to wade through a lot of egotistical, holier that thou crap. You guys just offer up info with a sense of comraderie & positivity and don't constantly slag & dis each other's work. More of a team than a group of divas! Figured I'd throw in a picture as well... Not a falling pic, but it was a big ol' cedar snag I had to top...bout 7' on the but with a coon in it...



Lol I had a coon or two not a lotta fun did he get mean?


----------



## Burvol

1I'dJak said:


> I just wanna tell you guys I enjoy your threads a lot more than the commercial climbing...I'm a tree climber that tops trees in the forest industry as well as does residential tree care. I've learned alot from the climbing thread but also have to wade through a lot of egotistical, holier that thou crap. You guys just offer up info with a sense of comraderie & positivity and don't constantly slag & dis each other's work. More of a team than a group of divas! Figured I'd throw in a picture as well... Not a falling pic, but it was a big ol' cedar snag I had to top...bout 7' on the but with a coon in it...



Oh heck ya, come on in any time. Nice job on a big nasty. 

Loggin' is a team sport


----------



## Burvol

ropensaddle said:


> Lol I had a coon or two not a lotta fun did he get mean?



I think he meant coon d#[email protected], rymes with Rick. What we call a leader that comes off a tree and grows up and or hooks out. Basically a spike knot on steroids. West Coast loggin' jargin.


----------



## Burvol

hammerlogging said:


> Burv is the one that said it looks like Cambodia.
> 
> We've got hookers to find em for us. And they do. If they don't, its In Trouble City. The old line is, "#### the hookers!!!" We add lots of riging cuts so evertything can pull through the tops easier.
> 
> But we don't mean it. Heck, I enjoy hooking every once in a while.
> No, its not hard to start a hole, We'll each drop down to more or less the bottom downstream corner of our strip, and find a hole to start with, or make one if we have to  that way when the faller on the strip next to mine gets to his upstream side I'm not throwing trees near him.
> 
> A lot more weight in a green tree than snag falling. The momentum helps.



Joe that looks like what I simply call "Sweat Mule". I cannot even imagine falling timber in that steamy bastard, LOL. Drink lots of gatorade Mang. Give you guys cred for that big time.


----------



## hammerlogging

I look forward to the fall, I'll say that.

Stemming a road today, thats nice work, cut everything whose top will cross the skid road below- they finished logging everything below the road yesterday, will be shoveled by the jammer behind me.


----------



## forestryworks

hammerlogging said:


> I look forward to the fall, I'll say that.



Amen!


----------



## ropensaddle

Burvol said:


> I think he meant coon d#[email protected], rymes with Rick. What we call a leader that comes off a tree and grows up and or hooks out. Basically a spike knot on steroids. West Coast loggin' jargin.



Lol maybe but the real deal is a bit more eventful 40 pound boar coon in a tree with you sucks especially if you somehow got above him lol. I have been in that predicament a few times in 28 year


----------



## ChipMonger

Nice pics fellas. Got any more? Burvol, you have some awesome country were you are...Im jealous. lol.


----------



## Burvol

no pictures today

Worked the 5-11:15 6 hour shift today, and already home! Gotta box up a saw for Micheal and then take a nap...hot today here.


----------



## Burvol

ChipMonger said:


> Nice pics fellas. Got any more? Burvol, you have some awesome country were you are...Im jealous. lol.



I'll never leave OR/WA. Lived in both states, pretty much just sleep, get groceries, and go to Portland once in a while for big shopping or an adventure when Lindz is feeling good (Fisherman's Marine is awesome BTW) in OR, cut logs, fish, hunt and ride bikes in WA most of the time, but I do cut logs here in OR too, for as long as it's legal to do so.


----------



## madhatte

Dropped four walnuts in a friend's yard Sunday, all of them with heavy head lean. One of them I managed to rope off to avoid hitting a building. The other I had to pull off a tricky ugly stump. The face points downhill into a neighboring property. The back cut is roughly perpendicular to the natural lay. The holding wood splits the difference and steered the big thing down right where I wanted it with no damage to anything. 







Believe it or not, there's about 300 bf of black walnut under all that ivy! This whole jub is gonna be about working around the ivy. Oh, well, it'll be worth it once I get it all milled and sold. 






Sorry I didn't think to get any "before" pics or video of the drop. I didn't think about pictures at all until I was already bucking up the mess.


----------



## ChipMonger

Keep em' coming fellas...Im envious, i wish i got to work in the woods dropping timber all day, no such luck where i am...Closet thing i get to do compared to you guys is clear a lot once in a while...Skidders are by far my favorite piece of logging equipment, next to my saw the power and articulation is somethin' else.


----------



## bitzer

madhatte said:


> Dropped four walnuts in a friend's yard Sunday, all of them with heavy head lean. One of them I managed to rope off to avoid hitting a building. The other I had to pull off a tricky ugly stump. The face points downhill into a neighboring property. The back cut is roughly perpendicular to the natural lay. The holding wood splits the difference and steered the big thing down right where I wanted it with no damage to anything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Believe it or not, there's about 300 bf of black walnut under all that ivy! This whole jub is gonna be about working around the ivy. Oh, well, it'll be worth it once I get it all milled and sold.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry I didn't think to get any "before" pics or video of the drop. I didn't think about pictures at all until I was already bucking up the mess.



That looks like a fun mess to clean up! I get a lot of grape vine around here. Its a blast. Especially if you miss cutting one from the ground connected to the tree. They will get your tree changing direction in a hurry. The ground work is great fun too. 


Its been in the 90s here and humid enough to scoop water out of the air with a butterfly net. The deer flys are on you as soon as you step into the woods. A dozen at a time. I can't wait for the first frost and fall myself. 

I've got a selective cut snag job coming up in two weeks. I'm looking forward to a couple of weeks of saw work, but the location near a swamp maybe a little ruff. Its a few dead reds, elms, and basswoods. They are plopped into the middle of some nice looking reds that I wish I was cutting. The biggest I guessed around 50" dbh and they averaged 30-40". The land owner wants to save them and some promising cherry and smaller reds in the area and ditch the garbage. I think I finally get to try out my homemade bottle jack with the pivot though!


----------



## hammerlogging

Here's a little swag we opened up to make some quick wood for the jammer amongst an otherwise thinning. After jamming, drags set out for the skidder.











I'll try and get some falling action next week


----------



## 056 kid

you can just see the heat in those pics!


----------



## Metals406

056 kid said:


> you can just see the heat in those pics!



No joke!! Looks like friggin' Panama. LOL

I'd want pants lined with ice holders. Hahahaha


----------



## Meadow Beaver

Metals406 said:


> No joke!! Looks like friggin' Panama. LOL
> 
> I'd want pants lined with ice holders. Hahahaha



It's so hot and muggy in the North East that ice holders wouldn't do anything except turn into hot water. Did I mention it's muggy?


----------



## madhatte

Meadow Beaver said:


> Did I mention it's muggy?



I don't miss that East Coast humidity ONE BIT.


----------



## Burvol

*Steelhead are fun, but are not brother salmon*
















This weekend at the home river. Waiting a few more weeks, maybe a month until the big fall Chinook come. Meanwhile I'll harass the Steelhead until then.


----------



## mdavlee

Looks like some good sized fish. Too bad you couldn't send some of them with the saw.


----------



## 056 kid

Nice fish! I need to get some of that action.


----------



## Burvol

056 kid said:


> Nice fish! I need to get some of that action.



I'm draggin' your ass in the boat with me before we take off on our Mulie hunt. Your gonna clean the brown spot out of your shorts during the big King season....LOL


----------



## 056 kid

that sounds like a plan to me


----------



## Plankton

Hey all, I just picked up a Jonsered 2188 with a 32" bar new from a dealer 2 days ago. I went out yesterday to break it in. 

The first tree it ever cut was a 1000bf pine from my land. My dad went out with me and snapped some pictures of the process with my camera.

Today I was clearing state forest roads from blowdowns I had to pack that baby in 5 miles with 3 gallons of fuel/bar and chain. This is my first real saw and I feel it now sitting down after a long day cutting.

Heres some pictures from yesterdays pine.






































My dad enjoyed himself too:








Sorry for so many pictures but there small. I don't know about you west coast guys but timber this big is rare around here so big occasion.


----------



## oldirty

Plankton said:


> but timber this big is rare around here so big occasion.



what you talking about man? we got big donkey pines around here!

good job btw.


----------



## Plankton

Thanks.

We sure have them around here. Where I was cutting there was a stand of around 20. However in my experience of western mass forests they are not common. Too much high grading nonsense and regrown fields.


----------



## Burvol

056 kid said:


> that sounds like a plan to me[/QUOTE
> 
> Ted, I will be hooking you up with some bait for your winter Steelies too. I can't wait brother!!!


----------



## Meadow Beaver

Plankton, nice pics, looks like you'll be needing a 28" oregon RW bar. 

On the east coast timber size, I'll be making a vid of half of a 5' red oak, the other side split off from strong winds.


----------



## 056 kid

Burvol said:


> 056 kid said:
> 
> 
> 
> that sounds like a plan to me[/QUOTE
> 
> Ted, I will be hooking you up with some bait for your winter Steelies too. I can't wait brother!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> no chit! The whole curing thing gets friggin extravigant quik when you look into it. now I can see if What I fixed up last season was worth a hoot, cause Im bettin your stuff is on point... For me going out with bait that im confident in seems to make a huge difference as far as catching fish. Hell im about as green as they come with the west coast fishing though..
Click to expand...


----------



## oldirty

Burvol said:


> This weekend at the home river. Waiting a few more weeks, maybe a month until the big fall Chinook come. Meanwhile I'll harass the Steelhead until then.



when the hell you inviting me out there to do the fishing thing man? wtf.


----------



## Burvol

oldirty said:


> when the hell you inviting me out there to do the fishing thing man? wtf.



September it's on!


----------



## mdavlee

I need to get the wife talked into a vacation out there. It wouldn't be hard to do but that's my busy time of year for work.


----------



## Cedarkerf

Pic of Mntngals 22 inch Rainbow she caught over 4 th of July vacation on lake Rosevelt she let it go after measuring it with the stick,


----------



## Burvol

Nice pictures Brian


----------



## Cedarkerf

Thanks Jesse. Those steelies are sweet


----------



## Meadow Beaver

*4' Foot Oak*

Here's a 4' foot Red Oak I cut earlier today.


----------



## Metals406

Meadow Beaver said:


> Here's a 4' foot Red Oak I cut earlier today.



That's a pumpkin!


----------



## Meadow Beaver

Metals406 said:


> That's a pumpkin!



Yeah it sounded cool going down too.


----------



## slowp

*A Reminder!!!!*

Here's my whine or rant. All you fallers, please cut those stobs off. My legs are getting all messed up with big polka dot bruises from wallowing through your brush!! It is Summer and time to wear shorts when not in the woods. Those pointy little stobs AKA pig ears, make for bad words. We don't want that. 

OK, lecture over. 

More bad words to come tomorrow.


----------



## forestryworks

Cut a few snags on vacation. Had to make my mom roll her eyes about something :greenchainsaw:


----------



## forestryworks




----------



## Burvol

Good to see your staying sharp Jameson. You definetly have about the most drive to fall timber I have ever seen.


----------



## Burvol

slowp said:


> Here's my whine or rant. All you fallers, please cut those stobs off. My legs are getting all messed up with big polka dot bruises from wallowing through your brush!! It is Summer and time to wear shorts when not in the woods. Those pointy little stobs AKA pig ears, make for bad words. We don't want that.
> 
> OK, lecture over.
> 
> More bad words to come tomorrow.



I always do Patty. When I went down to the OR Coast a couple of years ago to cut for Bushler (Paul S) he told me a story about his right hand man, a big tough rigging slinger who took a fall on a splintered stump and lost his whole eye.


----------



## forestryworks

Burvol said:


> Good to see your staying sharp Jameson. You definetly have about the most drive to fall timber I have ever seen.



Thanks for the good word Jesse.

It sure was a welcome change cutting in the Rockies as opposed to the Eastern OK steam bath.


----------



## Meadow Beaver

forestryworks said:


> Thanks for the good word Jessie.
> 
> It sure was a welcome change cutting in the Rockies as opposed to the Eastern OK steam bath.



I didn't think that looked like Oak-la-homa, where in the Rockies are you cuttin?


----------



## forestryworks

Meadow Beaver said:


> I didn't think that looked like Oak-la-homa, where in the Rockies are you cuttin?



I was in northern New Mexico for about a week on vacation.


----------



## Meadow Beaver

forestryworks said:


> I was in northern New Mexico for about a week on vacation.



Lol, I've never had a vacation where I was cutting any trees, I wish I did on my trip out West in '07. :censored:


----------



## bitzer

Great pics everyone! I'd say this is one of the best threads in the whole dam site!

The last time I cut on vacation I was felling a decent red oak spar that the top had blown out of at my uncles place up north wisco. An old homie and sandals was my gear that day.


----------



## slowp

Collyrado eh. That explains why there is slope to the ground. Have a good time!


----------



## Burvol

forestryworks said:


> Thanks for the good word Jesse.
> 
> It sure was a welcome change cutting in the Rockies as opposed to the Eastern OK steam bath.



Just keep doing what your doing. Save a little coin, ride out the down times, and I will do my best to have you cut with me in a few years. Hang it all up, and come out west! Not sure if I would be the greatest WC falling instructor, but you would make it easy on me (you can cut already), LOL. Looks like you already have a good foundation going and by your pictures, you obviously have the drive and moxee to do it (snags, volunteering to cut them dangerous things). That's good. I know it sounds cheesy, but falling timber really means something to me, and I know it does to you too. That's who I want to surround myself with in the field


----------



## bitzer

Had fun with two new toys today: my homemade jack and my new to me 394. 

Dead red leaning up hill. The downhill side of the top had blown out long ago and the uphill side grew into the clump of basswoods uphill and to the left in the pic. The main limb ran right through a V about 60' up in the nearest basswood. Either tree was going to hang no matter what. The jack helped push the red through.


----------



## bitzer

The jack did pretty well. Although I noticed the plunger started to creep up every time I let off. The ram never came down though. The tree would have tipped after about 2" of lift but it got hung like expected. Had to throw one of the blocks I cut out under the jack to get the tree to go over. The main limb snapped and all went as well as it could have. Its pointing back at the stump. I was well out of the way by then. Good crashing all around. This is going to be one of the more fun ones of this job. I've got a few others around this size, but the majority of the rest are under 20" I wish I was cutting the healthy reds in here. The biggest I guessed is around 50". I bucked the first 6' out of this to have cut into boards as it was still pretty solid. The rest was junk. First time jack was fun and beat the hell out of beatin wedges on this one!


----------



## huskyhank

Good job on that one!
Your homemade jack seems to work well.


----------



## Meadow Beaver

Burvol said:


> Just keep doing what your doing. Save a little coin, ride out the down times, and I will do my best to have you cut with me in a few years. Hang it all up, and come out west! Not sure if I would be the greatest WC falling instructor, but you would make it easy on me (you can cut already), LOL. Looks like you already have a good foundation going and by your pictures, you obviously have the drive and moxee to do it (snags, volunteering to cut them dangerous things). That's good. I know it sounds cheesy, but falling timber really means something to me, and I know it does to you too. That's who I want to surround myself with in the field



Jesse, quick question, where do you usually see rock hard firs in a strip? East of the Cascades?


----------



## slowp

I went up the hill to check stuff and made some videos. 

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/NvnM35sZ_7w&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/NvnM35sZ_7w&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/F2kUynGp1Cc&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/F2kUynGp1Cc&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>


----------



## Burvol

Thar she blows, brand new all hopped up to the hilt. Sounds tough and a ton of compression. Nice sounding saw.


----------



## RandyMac

Are ya puttin' boxers over them lacies?


----------



## Meadow Beaver

Well Jesse, how's she handle?


----------



## forestryworks

Burvol said:


> Thar she blows, brand new all hopped up to the hilt. Sounds tough and a ton of compression. Nice sounding saw.[/QUOTE]
> 
> Nice madsen's falling dogs you got there.


----------



## coastalfaller

Burvol said:


> Thar she blows, brand new all hopped up to the hilt. Sounds tough and a ton of compression. Nice sounding saw.



My eyes, my eyes............they're burning!!


----------



## mdavlee

I hope you really like it. I wouldn't want you to want your old saw back

It looks good and should run real good from what you said about it. Have a good day tomorrow with the new saw.


----------



## madhatte

Burvol said:


> That's who I want to surround myself with in the field



Burv, I wanna rep you for that, but it won't let me. I try very hard to pass my enthusiasm on to our seasonal folks. Some of them come back every year. Some I never see again. No matter. They all get the same attention and the same training. Your job and mine aren't so different -- we're both responsible for making sure that whoever replaces us when we move (on, up, elsewhere) can do the job right. 

Also: I have a STELLAR crew this year. If any of you bastids ever find this thread, call me out -- I'll buy you a beer. That goes for five years down the line. I just wanna know that you care about the job.


----------



## Burvol

*EL NASTY- The new 660..OH DUDE, SHE GETS ON IT*
































I never claimed to be some bad ass, but this is why I think 440's, 460's, and 372's are a total joke to cut logs with. I always spend most of my summers in 32" and bigger Fir. A handful of 4 footers in this strip up next. We don't count the bark


----------



## Meadow Beaver

Burvol said:


> I never claimed to be some bad ass, but this is why I think 440's, 460's, and 372's are a total joke to cut logs with. I always spend most of my summers in 32" and bigger Fir. A handful of 4 footers in this strip up next. We don't count the bark



Back baring the sight cut, I bet it's a lot easier with the 660 then a 390.


----------



## mdavlee

Nice pictures. Looks like you're liking the 660 so far.


----------



## hammerlogging

YES YES YES!

Like it Burv.


----------



## RandyMac

'bout time you gave us a look, thought maybe you were running it with a paperbag over it. That saw is doing the job, I'm glad you are happy with it. There is something about how they fit, and how well you cut.
That size of Fir is one of my favorites, to be turned loose with a 6 inch class saw would be fun.


----------



## Burvol

hammerlogging said:


> YES YES YES!
> 
> Like it Burv.



Joe go get one now! PM sent


----------



## slowp

You still need some sparkly bling on it. Then it would cut way better. :clap

I think it doesn't matter what brand the saw is. It is the operator... The old faller here would agree with you on the size. He says a 440 makes a good landing and rigging saw, but for falling you need to have more power just in case.


----------



## Burvol

slowp said:


> You still need some sparkly bling on it. Then it would cut way better. :clap
> 
> I think it doesn't matter what brand the saw is. It is the operator... The old faller here would agree with you on the size. He says a 440 makes a good landing and rigging saw, but for falling you need to have more power just in case.



That's just it Patty. I don't mean to sound upsetting, but that is the truth. Grown men that don't have a broken back need to be in the 90cc range. 

I will work on the bling :greenchainsaw:


----------



## Meadow Beaver

Burvol said:


> That's just it Patty. I don't mean to sound upsetting, but that is the truth. Grown men that don't have a broken back need to be in the 90cc range.
> 
> I will work on the bling :greenchainsaw:



Jesse, you should put a Stihl nekked lady sticker on it for bling. :greenchainsaw:


----------



## Burvol

Meadow Beaver said:


> Jesse, you should put a Stihl nekked lady sticker on it for bling. :greenchainsaw:



Real dirtbag logger white trash.


----------



## Meadow Beaver

Hahahaha!


----------



## forestryworks

Burvol said:


> I never claimed to be some bad ass, but this is why I think 440's, 460's, and 372's are a total joke to cut logs with. I always spend most of my summers in 32" and bigger Fir. A handful of 4 footers in this strip up next. We don't count the bark



Good pics and good saw. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## huskyhank

Meadow Beaver said:


> Jesse, you should put a Stihl nekked lady sticker on it for bling. :greenchainsaw:




Chrome!
Gotta get some chrome on it.


----------



## GASoline71

slowp said:


> I think it doesn't matter what brand the saw is. *It is the operator*...



Yep... and ol' Burvy has got a set... shows in his pics... 

Gary


----------



## hammerlogging

You're lovin the cutting jeans too, I know it!


----------



## slowp

hammerlogging said:


> You're lovin the cutting jeans too, I know it!



Oh boy! Fashion talk! Stick on flames would be nice on the saw. Probably make it run faster too. But then they might get you shut down for fire danger....


----------



## bitzer

Heres a couple from today. Maple thats halfway done already. Definetely diggin the 394.


----------



## bitzer

Heavy Leanin Basswood. 






Dutch faced and strapped.






Scared the sheet out of it!






16s seem to skid easy on the curvy roads I have to make.


----------



## forestryworks

That basswood took a crap in the third picture.


----------



## Dayto

Wicked Picks Burv .
Stay stafe bro


----------



## Burvol

GASoline71 said:


> Yep... and ol' Burvy has got a set... shows in his pics...
> 
> Gary



Thanks bud. Got a spot open on the highlead! I won't rib you for bringing your 440 down. It's smaller wood but nice. Speaking of...how is your back? I often wonder if you toting around a V8 chainsaw has anything to do with it. Stay safe- Burv


----------



## Burvol

Dayto said:


> Wicked Picks Burv .
> Stay stafe bro



They turned out decent for once. Helps when you don't use a cell phone for pictures. 

I am coming to your country to cut your timber before I die! Been through BC a bunch of times, I love it up there. 

And molest your fish!!!!!!!


----------



## GASoline71

Burvol said:


> Thanks bud. *Got a spot open on the highlead*! I won't rib you for bringing your 440 down. It's smaller wood but nice. Speaking of...how is your back? I often wonder if you toting around a V8 chainsaw has anything to do with it. Stay safe- Burv



No ####??? That big stuff would call for more than my trusty 044... Maybe I will bring the McCulloch 795 with me. 

My back is so much better that it was a year ago. Lifting 500 pound V-8 saws didn't help... I can tell ya that. 

You stay safe too mang!

Gary


----------



## RandyMac

Hey Laddy!!
Annie had me lift this pic for her stud muffin collection.


----------



## Burvol

Tell her I am quite honored! I am already scamming my way to California for late fall if I can pull it off. Have to finish here, kill 200 salmon or so, get a buck, maybe a bull and I'll be good to leave home. My real good buddy is down there running 5 cutters (OR import Bullbuck my age LOL) and I basically told him thanks for hiring me as soon as he told me about his gig, if you know what I mean  All good he says. 

I will FIND YOU! MUAHAA

Had a Bob sighting. He says to tell everyone hi.


----------



## hammerlogging

Hey Bitzer nice basswood! I don't know about one with a lightning fracture like that but generally even the hardest leaning ones really dont have the barberchair tendency. Considering the way they like to sit when bored, try just hitting some from the back. Good work and glad to see you're cutting.


----------



## Gologit

Burvol said:


> Tell her I am quite honored! I am already scamming my way to California for late fall if I can pull it off. Have to finish here, kill 200 salmon or so, get a buck, maybe a bull and I'll be good to leave home. My real good buddy is down there running 5 cutters (OR import Bullbuck my age LOL) and I basically told him thanks for hiring me as soon as he told me about his gig, if you know what I mean  All good he says.
> 
> I will FIND YOU! MUAHAA
> 
> Had a Bob sighting. He says to tell everyone hi.



Hey Burv...I'm still around, just real busy. We're putting wood on the ground this year. If you head down this way late enough in the year there's some OG stuff I'll be doing on the coast. I've already invited RandyMac...I figure he and I can do the yelling, drink coffee and eat our lunch, while you do the cutting. 

Hi to everybody...gotta go. We're sneaking up on the trees in the dark.


----------



## bitzer

90 degrees + 95% humidy + millions of mosquitos = Back at the shop early. That and 2 gallons of water gone by 1:30 means bad things. 

Thanks for the tip Hammer. I've never had one chair, but I've always bored them because they are generally ugly and I'm never sure how sound the wood is. I checked in this morning before heading out and took your advice. Got a little overzealous and cut though the hinge on the dutch side. It started to go a little earlier than I wanted and I needed it to keep swinging. Turned out all good though. In the first pick mine is in the middle. I'm aiming just to the left of the tree in the foreground. The target tree is in the background closet to the left in the second.


----------



## bitzer

Crown weight vs. stem lean? Usually the stem lean wins. This maple lost half its top a while ago. The remaining top balanced the stem lean pretty well. Had to double up. The stem was leaning into the fall. I was working under the crown, looking up A LOT. Aiming for right of center in the second pic.


----------



## bitzer

forestryworks said:


> That basswood took a crap in the third picture.



It was pretty damn funny to watch. I almost started laughing with how it plopped out.


----------



## Meadow Beaver

Burvol said:


> September it's on!



I just noticed this post and remaniced about when I went salmon fishing in Alaska. Every time someone caught a fish on the boat the one guy would yell "FISH ON!!". I was also lucky enough to catch the most fish on the boat. I ate salmon for 3 months straight.


----------



## slowp

Burvol cooked the best salmon I ever ate! He treated us to it at the GTG in June.


----------



## RandyMac

*Pumpkins anyone?*


----------



## Meadow Beaver

slowp said:


> Burvol cooked the best salmon I ever ate! He treated us to it at the GTG in June.



About a month ago a guy I know brought some smoked trout to the garage, WOW it was orgasmic. :drool:


----------



## slowp

I felt the need to do some productive work today. No punkins here, just weeds. We'll do rose bushes this weekend.


----------



## RandyMac

You are definately getting it, on the block cut, drop the back cut almost level to the top of undercut.


----------



## bitzer

RandyMac said:


> You are definately getting it, on the block cut, drop the back cut almost level to the top of undercut.



Not to turn this into a classroom, but do you mean I make the top of my back cut here? Thanks for the input. This was only my second attempt on a block cut anything. All i've learned about cutting timber was through experience until I found this site. Hey, you guys are my only window to the world of how trees can really be cut and I really appreciate that! There's a lot of sloping back cuts around here.


----------



## Burvol

Well it depends on the situation...


----------



## forestryworks

bitzercreek1 said:


> Not to turn this into a classroom, but do you mean I make the top of my back cut here? Thanks for the input. This was only my second attempt on a block cut anything. All i've learned about cutting timber was through experience until I found this site. Hey, you guys are my only window to the world of how trees can really be cut and I really appreciate that! There's a lot of sloping back cuts around here.



Move that blue line to the TOP of the undercut, as Randy said. You're at the bottom.


----------



## RandyMac

You are so close with your cut.


----------



## RandyMac

Hey Bruv, no fishin' today?


----------



## bitzer

RandyMac said:


> You are so close with your cut.



Gotcha. Just got confused by what you meant by undercut. Yeah I chicken ####ted a little. I'm a little rusty and didn't want to end up low on the far side. Haven't had much saw work since spring. Thanks!


----------



## Cedarkerf

slowp said:


> Burvol cooked the best salmon I ever ate! He treated us to it at the GTG in June.



:agree2: im ready to have springers every year now


----------



## Burvol

RandyMac said:


> Hey Bruv, no fishin' today?



That's what's wrong with me, I haven't been in a while. Need to go get back after them (steelhead are in now, they are nice but are not salmon, although B-run fish are coming now and are huge Steelies, many flirting with 20lbs & 40"+ long). A few more weeks and it will be physcotic time again, Chinook season. No rest, fish every moment that my saw is turned off and I ain't driving to or from work/the river...unless I limit early. Lindsey and my Mom are both with me alot. Lindz likes the Saturday afternoon evening hunch, while my Mom does the all-dayer with me every dang Sunday until atleast November.


----------



## Burvol

slowp said:


> Burvol cooked the best salmon I ever ate! He treated us to it at the GTG in June.



Thanks for the kind words. I'm glad I was able to pull it off...catch two chromers the day before! Simply perfect timing. Got one of them at 4:45 right before light and the second at 7 AM. To consume fresh Springer is unbelievable, rediculous. I believe it gives Halibut a good kick in the gut, people who are sketchy of salmon become believers with Spring Chinook. I always cook the first few I catch with in the hour or two of being clubbed!


----------



## RandyMac

Yup, it's no fishing or constipation, you would know better

Don't be going psyco, you are just about the only one left that knows the language.


----------



## Burvol

This is what happens when I don't fish. Corks and shorts and a Stihl :monkey:


----------



## RandyMac

LMAO!!! I'm sending that to Annie!!! Dangitall, I'm givin' Cody a call. He will help get you sorted out.


----------



## ropensaddle

Burvol said:


> This is what happens when I don't fish. Corks and shorts and a Stihl :monkey:



Needs to be on the wtf thread


----------



## RandyMac

ropensaddle said:


> Needs to be on the wtf thread



Oh yeah.


----------



## Greystoke

Ehhh, he has gone rogue! I thought he was a husky man  That's alright I made the switch once and caught a lot of flack for it. Now, the shorts? Your gonna get some pitch in your leg hairs!


----------



## RandyMac

*cody!!!!!*


----------



## Greystoke

I've been busy, just a lurker for a while...you know, get home, read everybody's stuff, and just too tired to add anything witty enough to keep up with all of you characters  I'll try harder


----------



## Rounder

tarzanstree said:


> I've been busy, just a lurker for a while...you know, get home, read everybody's stuff, and just too tired to add anything witty enough to keep up with all of you characters  I'll try harder



Howdy stranger, picked up a new 66 from Steve (he gave it the treatment) that I wouldn't mind comparing to yours......mine's not broke in yet though...... - Sam


----------



## ChainsawmanXX

Burvol said:


> This is what happens when I don't fish. Corks and shorts and a Stihl :monkey:





Seen a guy buck up about 500 feet of logs in flip flops.. FLIP FLOPS!! Id like to say i beat him with a stick.. But im not that nice :deadhorse:


----------



## slowp

Yesterday, while being the tool biatch and working the traffic flaggers, I was told a few falling tidbits. 

A pre story, the faller I was working with had tried to volunteer his work, but was told he had to take the falling test if he wanted to be a volunteer. So, while cars were going by, I started telling him the Forest Service requirements. 

He pulled a pair of safety glasses out of his shirt pocket, and said, "See I have them on me."

He said he also had a pair of chaps at home. They hurt his back. (Strangely enough, I notice that occurs if you don't pull the waist strap low.)

He told about working with a guy who used his chainbrake. The guy would set the chainbrake on, then fling the running saw on his shoulder and go to the next tree. With a grin on his face, he said he could do that. 

Yup, I think he might have trouble getting certified....:biggrinbounce2: But he's a very good faller without the certification.


----------



## forestryworks

Pecan. Lightning hit it about three years ago.


----------



## ChainsawmanXX

forestryworks said:


> Pecan. Lightning hit it about three years ago.



 Nice job! was it topped out before you fell it?


----------



## forestryworks

ChainsawmanXX said:


> Nice job! was it topped out before you fell it?



No, I just cut the heavy, bigger limbs off, and cut off the other limbs to make the profile as narrow as possible. 

It was only about 40ft tall. I just had to miss the dumpster, but keep it as close to that grassy spot as possible.


----------



## Greystoke

ChainsawmanXX said:


> Seen a guy buck up about 500 feet of logs in flip flops.. FLIP FLOPS!! Id like to say i beat him with a stick.. But im not that nice :deadhorse:



Hope your not thinkin that Burv is one of those kinda guys, because I guarantee you that he would be fine to run a powersaw in naught but his birthday suit...since a powersaw is like an extension of his arm...just want to clear things up...you know, just in case you were thinkin that!


----------



## Greystoke

forestryworks said:


> No, I just cut the heavy, bigger limbs off, and cut off the other limbs to make the profile as narrow as possible.
> 
> It was only about 40ft tall. I just had to miss the dumpster, but keep it as close to that grassy spot as possible.



Nice job pard...hope you made some money on that one!


----------



## RandyMac

tarzanstree said:


> Hope your not thinkin that Burv is one of those kinda guys, because I guarantee you that he would be fine to run a powersaw in naught but his birthday suit...since a powersaw is like an extension of his arm...just want to clear things up...you know, just in case you were thinkin that!



Hey Cody!

My cousin Kev set chokers and bucked logs elbow deep in a nasty green creek, naked. nobody thought anything about it, after all, Kev was a MacNaughton.


----------



## Greystoke

RandyMac said:


> Hey Cody!
> 
> My cousin Kev set chokers and bucked logs elbow deep in a nasty green creek, naked. nobody thought anything about it, after all, Kev was a MacNaughton.



Hey Randy! 

Mac(NAUGHT)on? LOL!


----------



## Greystoke

Closest I ever came to being naked while falling timber was when a limb hooked the front of my key double legged' pants; early morning while working on a job in Humboldt county, California (near Fortuna). Tore the leg of the pants from my UPPER thigh to my ankle, and, trying to "work with it" I commence to throwing big pitchy noodles onto my bare legs, which were covered with leg hair...???? After some pondering of what to do to get the day in, I decided to call the bullbuck on the radio to ask for some duct tape...I was able to patch them up for the day with the duct tape, and get my busheling day completed! I decided to save that pair of pants for the days when the bullbuck (of course on a new job) would walk me into a fresh new strip, and quote me a busheling price, which was far too cheap AWWW the days of timber falling glory!


----------



## ChainsawmanXX

tarzanstree said:


> Hope your not thinkin that Burv is one of those kinda guys, because I guarantee you that he would be fine to run a powersaw in naught but his birthday suit...since a powersaw is like an extension of his arm...just want to clear things up...you know, just in case you were thinkin that!





Showed this one to my girlfriend.. She told me she would like to see me do that sometime! (running powersaw in my "birthday suit") 
Thanks :yourock:


----------



## Gologit

tarzanstree said:


> ...for the days when the bullbuck (of course on a new job) would walk me into a fresh new strip, and quote me a busheling price, which was far too cheap AWWW the days of timber falling glory!



LOL. Yeah, they quote the price after you're already there. Or come up with an excuse, or several excuses, to drop the day wage after you've already taken the job. Some things never change. That's one of the advantages to being semi retired...I either know the price before I load my tools or I don't go. I might listen to a hard luck story and agree to bargain a little but the guys that just plain change the price after we've shook on it get nothing from me but taillights.

One faller I know, and it wasn't me, had his price dropped three times in two weeks...and even then he couldn't get anything but draw-money on payday. He came in on a Saturday and short bucked everything on the ground, 32s became twenty eights, forties turned into two nineteens, sixteens became two sevens...you get the idea, then gathered all his tools, and went home. He figured if he wasn't making anything on scale, they shouldn't either. When he told us the story at the Saturday morning saw shop choir practice we took him to town and bought his breakfast for him. Seemed like the least we could do.

Most of the outfits around here are pretty good at paying what they agreed to but there's a couple that are downright brilliant at coming up with excuses to either drop the wage or just not pay you at all until they absolutely have to. They have trouble finding and keeping good fallers. And they gripe a lot.


----------



## bitzer

Hey nice Pecan Forestry!

I had a bunch of city work myself this weekend. Had a good storm come through and take out a lot of trees and branches. Made two weeks pay in two days! Dog effn tired today and no pics, but it was a fun two days. The city folk were marveling at my big saws and how they "cut the wood like butter!" Its amazing the difference between a pro saw with a sharp chain to Poulan with a dull chain. Ha. ha. I got some cheers and turned some heads felling storm damaged trees between buildings and clearing obstacles. Christ I even had a "pro" tree service guy say, boy you sure know how to run a saw. Funny ####!


----------



## Greystoke

Gologit said:


> LOL. Yeah, they quote the price after you're already there. Or come up with an excuse, or several excuses, to drop the day wage after you've already taken the job. Some things never change. That's one of the advantages to being semi retired...I either know the price before I load my tools or I don't go. I might listen to a hard luck story and agree to bargain a little but the guys that just plain change the price after we've shook on it get nothing from me but taillights.
> 
> One faller I know, and it wasn't me, had his price dropped three times in two weeks...and even then he couldn't get anything but draw-money on payday. He came in on a Saturday and short bucked everything on the ground, 32s became twenty eights, forties turned into two nineteens, sixteens became two sevens...you get the idea, then gathered all his tools, and went home. He figured if he wasn't making anything on scale, they shouldn't either. When he told us the story at the Saturday morning saw shop choir practice we took him to town and bought his breakfast for him. Seemed like the least we could do.
> 
> Most of the outfits around here are pretty good at paying what they agreed to but there's a couple that are downright brilliant at coming up with excuses to either drop the wage or just not pay you at all until they absolutely have to. They have trouble finding and keeping good fallers. And they gripe a lot.



Yeah, there were always a handful of bullbucks that were price cutters! Working in Cali I had the best bullbuck ever...guy would never cut your price.


----------



## hammerlogging

bitzercreek1 said:


> Hey nice Pecan Forestry!
> 
> I had a bunch of city work myself this weekend. Had a good storm come through and take out a lot of trees and branches. Made two weeks pay in two days! Dog effn tired today and no pics, but it was a fun two days. The city folk were marveling at my big saws and how they "cut the wood like butter!" Its amazing the difference between a pro saw with a sharp chain to Poulan with a dull chain. Ha. ha. I got some cheers and turned some heads felling storm damaged trees between buildings and clearing obstacles. Christ I even had a "pro" tree service guy say, boy you sure know how to run a saw. Funny ####!




that a way. Big difference in work, tree care and timberfalling. Really only similarity is in fact the chainsaw. Glad you had fun.


----------



## Greystoke

Here are my latest fallin pics. At least it was Willow falling and not me!







Broke out my dawg of a 3120 with 50" bar for falling this stob and bucking it up. Look I made a saginaw! Not very often that I do, but customer wanted a flat stump, and I needed to saw some lean into this ugly old stob.





That's an 80 20 ratio undercut and backcut, or maybe 85 15 





Aww, timber fallin glory! NOT  This is about as glorious as it gets for my fallin anymore! Although the tree climbing part makes up for it. I regret never taking the time to stop and pose for some pics back when I was fallin timber for reals.


----------



## slowp

Here's from last week's hazard tree go. That's a tent left by some inconsiderate camper. I rolled it up and disposed of it. I was worried about "land mines" along the road but we didn't find any, or any used underwear either. Such is the glory of roadside hazard tree cutting. :greenchainsaw:


----------



## bitzer

hammerlogging said:


> that a way. Big difference in work, tree care and timberfalling. Really only similarity is in fact the chainsaw. Glad you had fun.



You got that right man! Draggin limbs and rounds beats the hell out of ya! Lots of putsy, putsy. I'm finding that out as I'm working on starting my own service part time. Beats the hell out of my regular pay. Thanks for the good word!



Hey Cody those are some badass pics man! Anytime anybodys got the 3120 out with a Cannon it means serious. Gotta go deep on those faces. Those sobs don't know when to fall if you don't. When I'm in that situation I gun until I feel the kirf start to tighten and pull out quick before it pinches. Last Saturday I did that with out really paying attention to how far in I was. Just waited for the pinch. I looked at the stump after and it had to be 80/20. Climbing trees is a whole new set of nuts! I'm finding that out the hard way. Good pics man.


----------



## Burvol

tarzanstree said:


> Here are my latest fallin pics. At least it was Willow falling and not me!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Broke out my dawg of a 3120 with 50" bar for falling this stob and bucking it up. Look I made a saginaw! Not very often that I do, but customer wanted a flat stump, and I needed to saw some lean into this ugly old stob.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's an 80 20 ratio undercut and backcut, or maybe 85 15
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aww, timber fallin glory! NOT  This is about as glorious as it gets for my fallin anymore! Although the tree climbing part makes up for it. I regret never taking the time to stop and pose for some pics back when I was fallin timber for reals.




You the man


----------



## Hddnis

Tarzantrees, that is a nice looking saw you got there. Almost compensates for having you in the pics.  

JK, looks like a fun job. How far away was the fence? Chainlink is the most unforgiving fence out there. One little bump and the top rail bends.




Mr. HE


----------



## Cedarkerf

tarzanstree said:


> Here are my latest fallin pics. At least it was Willow falling and not me!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's an 80 20 ratio undercut and backcut, or maybe 85 15
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aww, timber fallin glory! NOT  This is about as glorious as it gets for my fallin anymore! Although the tree climbing part makes up for it. I regret never taking the time to stop and pose for some pics back when I was fallin timber for reals.



Nice pic of it going over. Those Cannon bars make for nice pics.


----------



## ChainsawmanXX

tarzanstree said:


> Here are my latest fallin pics. At least it was Willow falling and not me!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Broke out my dawg of a 3120 with 50" bar for falling this stob and bucking it up. Look I made a saginaw! Not very often that I do, but customer wanted a flat stump, and I needed to saw some lean into this ugly old stob.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's an 80 20 ratio undercut and backcut, or maybe 85 15
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aww, timber fallin glory! NOT  This is about as glorious as it gets for my fallin anymore! Although the tree climbing part makes up for it. I regret never taking the time to stop and pose for some pics back when I was fallin timber for reals.



What are you doing with that Willow crotch? that would be some BEAUTIFUL wood


----------



## slowp

You should post that picture on the chainsaw, then we'll read about how many folks died after being electrocuted from drooling on the keyboard.

I will find out how willow burns this fall. My chunks have aged a year. The sprouts coming out of the stump seem to keep the deer from eating other things.


----------



## Greystoke

Old willow I just bucked into firewood, actually fairly rotten. That chainsaw is actually a dawg...everything is stock, and I have not even opened the muffler up yet. I bought it when I started doing tree work cuz I knew I was going to be bucking a lot of big, junky trees up for firewood and I did not want to use my Modded 088 Stihl that I used to use when I was falling timber full time. I had a nice laser ground chain on that 3120 so that helped make up for the blubbery powerhead


----------



## Burvol

*Yes it can be done. Early into the season 25 lbs.*


----------



## mdavlee

Nice fish. I guess you had a good day today and it sure wasn't at work.


----------



## Metals406

Dang Burv!! That's a fish right there. . . I sure hope it put up a good fight for ya, it always makes it funner IMO.


----------



## GASoline71

Nice fish mang! My cousin is down there in Orygun for a week catchin' them big un's. 

Gary


----------



## Metals406

GASoline71 said:


> Nice fish mang! My cousin is down there in Orygun for a week catchin' them big un's.
> 
> Gary



Hey Gary. . . When did ya get the badge?

Now I know where to send all my oil complaints.


----------



## slowp

A logger from here said he caught a 32 pounder out in the ocean. I do not think they have room in the fish truck for the big ones upriver here.


----------



## Burvol

slowp said:


> A logger from here said he caught a 32 pounder out in the ocean. I do not think they have room in the fish truck for the big ones upriver here.



We don't have that problem here, big glacial runoff rivers.


----------



## Cedarkerf

Its a beauty


----------



## 2dogs

Nice fish! Salmon season closes here Sep 5, ocean only.


----------



## slowp

Hey Burvol! You might have to go back to work tomorrow. It is cooling off and some major clouds are coming in. Better run out and catch some more fish. 

I am home because the Dr.s have told me to. I think it is overkill. I seem to have gotten a spider bite between the toes. They puffed up a little bit, and while I was at a foot doctor to see about another thing, he freaked out about the little bite and mentioned poisoning, etc. Got bright red cheap horse sized pills. Hung out with the old people in the pharmacy. 

Today it feels pretty good, but the follow up Dr. said home tomorrow too. 
Back to reading on the deck....until the rain starts. The loggers have found out my secret location and have been phoning...


----------



## ChainsawmanXX

View attachment 148721


Heres a picture of a white oak i cut up today!


----------



## Greystoke

Burvol said:


>



NO...You da man!


----------



## RandyMac

Very nice Salmon, which way are you cooking this one?


You young-guns be carefull

http://www.times-standard.com/localnews/ci_15887644


----------



## schmuck.k

RandyMac said:


> You young-guns be carefull
> 
> http://www.times-standard.com/localnews/ci_15887644



dam randy that sucks prayers going to their family's


----------



## forestryworks

RandyMac said:


> You young-guns be carefull
> 
> http://www.times-standard.com/localnews/ci_15887644



That's a rough way to go.

On the other hand it's good to see guys working out there.


----------



## slowp

Not good. Guys get complacent around the lines. While we're on the subject, the rumor has arrived here that a feller buncher operator was killed in Oregon, when the chain broke on his cutting head and shot through the shielding and into the cab. I can't confirm it.


----------



## bitzer

Nice Fish Burv!



Dead old Elm. Where in the hell is the holding wood? I figured I had a 20% chance I could pull this off. I've done it before. Usually not this much rot though. Big black ants crawling down the bar at me. They were pist.







Rigged and ready. Cable choked around the left side then wrapped around the right. I figured if they split the rotten side would take the side leaning over me with it. Or best case scenario all goes well. Ran out of cable and had to chain the rest. It looks like the hoe is right under it, but its well out of range.


----------



## bitzer

The property owner snapped a few pics and then got clear when I told him. Good thing too cause all hell broke loose. The rot went farther in than I thought. Just as I was about to pull out the weak side started to go and the cable pulled the side over me with it. Made a hell of a mess. What should have been less than 2 hours turned into 5. It took out 1 Spruce from the guys re-forest. All in all could have been a lot worse. Just a one tree day, confidence took a kick in the ass and back at the shop early. Definetely need a full wrap for this saw. 











Bucked up. Amazing how hard this dry standing Elm gets.


----------



## GASoline71

Metals406 said:


> Hey Gary. . . When did ya get the badge?
> 
> Now I know where to send all my oil complaints.



About a week ago... still ironin' out the bugs in my "mod" profile... Trimmed is helping me with that... 

I've been here for a long time... nice to be able to give a little back. 

Gary


----------



## 056 kid

bitzercreek1 said:


> The property owner snapped a few pics and then got clear when I told him. Good thing too cause all hell broke loose. The rot went farther in than I thought. Just as I was about to pull out the weak side started to go and the cable pulled the side over me with it. Made a hell of a mess. What should have been less than 2 hours turned into 5. It took out 1 Spruce from the guys re-forest. All in all could have been a lot worse. Just a one tree day, confidence took a kick in the ass and back at the shop early. Definetely need a full wrap for this saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you dont mind me asking, what the??


----------



## schmuck.k

056 kid;2416352
If you dont mind me asking said:


> opcorn:


----------



## Metals406

GASoline71 said:


> About a week ago... still ironin' out the bugs in my "mod" profile... Trimmed is helping me with that...
> 
> I've been here for a long time... nice to be able to give a little back.
> 
> Gary



You'll make a good Mod Gary! Congrats!


----------



## oldirty

056 kid said:


> If you dont mind me asking, what the??





asking the same thing. first day with a saw? lol.


----------



## Greystoke

RandyMac said:


> Very nice Salmon, which way are you cooking this one?
> 
> 
> You young-guns be carefull
> 
> http://www.times-standard.com/localnews/ci_15887644



I am going to sip some brown liquor for those guys...Prayers out to their families.


----------



## Gologit

GASoline71 said:


> About a week ago... still ironin' out the bugs in my "mod" profile... Trimmed is helping me with that...
> 
> I've been here for a long time... nice to be able to give a little back.
> 
> Gary



Good deal. Does this mean we can't call you d-i-c-k head anymore?


----------



## huskyhank

Mr. d-i-c-k head?





Gologit said:


> Good deal. Does this mean we can't call you d-i-c-k head anymore?


----------



## Hddnis

GASoline71 said:


> About a week ago... still ironin' out the bugs in my "mod" profile... Trimmed is helping me with that...
> 
> I've been here for a long time... nice to be able to give a little back.
> 
> Gary





Hey, good to have you as a mod. You're one of the new ones that I can support.


I'll try to not cause you any trouble.:greenchainsaw:




Mr. HE


----------



## 2dogs

RandyMac said:


> Very nice Salmon, which way are you cooking this one?
> 
> 
> You young-guns be carefull
> 
> http://www.times-standard.com/localnews/ci_15887644



Dammed shame. Very sad.


----------



## bitzer

056 kid said:


> If you dont mind me asking, what the??



It felt like what the? There was a hole on that side and I was standing on a small stump and a buttress. Normally I would just flip the saw and I tossed it around a little seeing which way was going to be the best. I was able to see where I was gunning under the clutch cover better that way and was able to see the tip better on the far side. It was awkward as hell and I generally don't backbar that often, but the only place to stand was a wierd spot.


----------



## bitzer

oldirty said:


> first day with a saw? lol.



Was it that obvious? ha. ha.


----------



## Plankton

Bucking From Today:

















Pines brush is so killer:


----------



## bitzer

bitzercreek1 said:


> It felt like what the? There was a hole on that side and I was standing on a small stump and a buttress. Normally I would just flip the saw and I tossed it around a little seeing which way was going to be the best. I was able to see where I was gunning under the clutch cover better that way and was able to see the tip better on the far side. It was awkward as hell and I generally don't backbar that often, but the only place to stand was a wierd spot.



Editing my post. Meant under the flywheel cover not clutch. All that cough syrup I been drinking must be catching up with me. The way I had to stand made it eaiser to pull the saw toward the face then I could get back behind it. Didn't have much to cut so I just kept it in there like that. Sound wood and it would have been face out, then flip the saw over dog into the hinge and swing through the back. Also could have picked my stump height in decent wood. Ugly wood means ugly work. Not really sure why the guy took the pic at that point either. Whatever it all went to hell in the end anyway.


----------



## hammerlogging

more to follow. finally got these from last winter.


----------



## bitzer

Fricken awesome Hammer! You boys had quite a bit of snow. You usually get that much? The winter sure changes things.


----------



## 056 kid

hammerlogging said:


> more to follow. finally got these from last winter.



Look at you wastin time with all those spring boards haha, shoulda cut her lower, nice post though:greenchainsaw:


----------



## Plankton

hammerlogging said:


> more to follow. finally got these from last winter.



Awesome pictures! Nice too see some springboard action in the east.


It looks like my post made it in here instead of the bucking thread where it was meant to go, now I can't edit it and take out the pictures. If anyone's reading this can a mod delete my earlier post so I can put it in the bucking thread where it belongs?


----------



## Greystoke

Nice pics hammer! Except I'm sure there is some poison oak in thar!


----------



## schmuck.k

good pics hammer


----------



## mdavlee

Nice pictures Hammerlogging.


----------



## hammerlogging

The only one I took was the blurry one of Red on the springboard! He's the one with the knack for the photo it turns out. I'll try and get some more up.











There.


----------



## slowp

Nicely done.



tarzanstree said:


> Nice pics hammer! Except I'm sure there is some poison oak in thar!



I thought it was poison ivy east of the Rockies? Whatever itches.


----------



## hammerlogging

*for you westies*

bore an open face






bore a humboldt (it can happen....just when you have to)





different trees, different ground, different cuts. Se la vie.


----------



## bitzer

Good pics Hammer! I'm gettin excited for snow on the ground now. 90+ and 90% humidity again today.


----------



## Cedarkerf

bitzercreek1 said:


> Good pics Hammer! I'm gettin excited for snow on the ground now. 90+ and 90% humidity again today.


56 degrees wet and gray here yesterday and today survived a mild summer looks like falls setting in out here yeaa.


----------



## RandyMac

It is definately headed for Fall, we have sunshine, only see it in the Fall.


----------



## Marc

hammerlogging said:


> bore an open face
> 
> 
> bore a humboldt (it can happen....just when you have to)
> 
> 
> different trees, different ground, different cuts. Se la vie.



Just a question from a curious amateur trying to learn from the pros in here, why such a small angle on that second notch and why cut so high? Thanks in advance.


----------



## Jacob J.

Marc said:


> Just a question from a curious amateur trying to learn from the pros in here, why such a small angle on that second notch and why cut so high? Thanks in advance.



There was a family of squirrels in the stump he was trying to save.


----------



## forestryworks

Marc said:


> Just a question from a curious amateur trying to learn from the pros in here, why such a small angle on that second notch and why cut so high? Thanks in advance.



Could be lots of butt rot in that stand, or some other defect on the stump, hence a higher cut.

As for the face, he probably wanted it to close soon and break the hinge early to get the crown to roll out off other trees or something along those lines.


----------



## hammerlogging

forestryworks said:


> Could be lots of butt rot in that stand, or some other defect on the stump, hence a higher cut.
> 
> As for the face, he probably wanted it to close soon and break the hinge early to get the crown to roll out off other trees or something along those lines.



Sure you weren't there??? Exactly.


----------



## Marc

hammerlogging said:


> Sure you weren't there??? Exactly.



Ah, makes sense. 

You mentioned he was bore cutting behind the hinge. Was there concern of barber chair on this one especially with the close face?

One reason I ask is the one time I had a tree chair I was cutting, it was also a red oak (around 30" on the stump). It had heavy head lean and basically the entire crown over the same side as well which obviously contributed, and my hinge wood was probably a little thick as well; but it split as soon as the face closed, and I've been mindful of that incident ever since.

And thanks again for the explanations, I don't want to sidetrack the thread too much, but the knowledge is invaluable for me.


----------



## Jacob J.

You can make your back cut lower than the horizontal cut on your face with heavy head leaners to keep them from splitting. You can also bore the heart or snip the sapwood depending on what species it is. I haven't cut much of the east coast hardwoods but here it's common to cut the sapwood off the sides of the holding wood in large Spruce that have heart rot.


----------



## Marc

Jacob J. said:


> You can make your back cut lower than the horizontal cut on your face with heavy head leaners to keep them from splitting. You can also bore the heart or snip the sapwood depending on what species it is. I haven't cut much of the east coast hardwoods but here it's common to cut the sapwood off the sides of the holding wood in large Spruce that have heart rot.



Yeah, the red oak that chaired on me was almost all heart wood (like in hammerlogging's pictures), and I probably should have bored the heart wood out. Or chained it. Or one of a few other things that would have prevented it. Thanks for the tip about the back cut placement. The more techniques I hear from different people, the more I'm amazed at just how much there is to know.


----------



## Marc

As long as I'm talkin everyone's ear off, maybe I can contribute.

I'm very obviously not a pro, but they're falling pictures anyhow. Just cut fencelines for firewood and take down trees for people if they're away from anything that'd get me in trouble (house, power, whatever).





 
This is close to the biggest tree I've cut... a white ash about 42" on the stump with a 24" bar on my 372.

Stump... not my best, but not my worst either.


----------



## ChainsawmanXX

Jacob J. said:


> You can make your back cut lower than the horizontal cut on your face with heavy head leaners to keep them from splitting. You can also bore the heart or snip the sapwood depending on what species it is. I haven't cut much of the east coast hardwoods but here it's common to cut the sapwood off the sides of the holding wood in large Spruce that have heart rot.



On heavy learners, I always like to make my chip, Bore in the middle of my chip to each side of the tree. Then come to my back cut, cut all the way back, leave about 3-4 inch backstrap insert my wedges. Cut off my strap, and WATCH HER FALL! :chainsawguy: But im a rookie.. what do i know? haha I learned how to fall by watching dad.. although he gave me a few pointers along the way!


----------



## forestryworks

hammerlogging said:


> Sure you weren't there??? Exactly.



There in the spirit


----------



## RandyMac

GASoline71 said:


> About a week ago... still ironin' out the bugs in my "mod" profile... Trimmed is helping me with that...
> 
> I've been here for a long time... nice to be able to give a little back.
> 
> Gary



So, Gary my lad, did you know that you are supposed to give a sixpack to the moderators on the other sites you visit? Henry's Blue Boar please.:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## hammerlogging

A couple more from Red's memoirs:


----------



## 056 kid

Hey Joe, a where you goin with that saw in yo hand?

Nice logs there, too bad we didnt get to kill a few trees together allthough I rekon it isen't too late. Whats up with the high stumps and level cuts though? Logs look much prettier when they are square at the butt. & I dont believe there is any rot in those stumps. You got a 32" bar so use it!!


----------



## hammerlogging

firescar on the uphill backside of every tree. And windshake in every butt. Thats the story of WV overmature timber. There is in fact fire damage on almost all the timber I work. If it was felled with a low stump it would have meant I'd have to butt it off on the ground, sometimes I'd have to have anyhow, always cut as low as reasonable but if you're flying wood, which we were, no sense in flying #### that would be butted off at the landing anyhow. On lots of this wood the second log was actually higher value than the butt log.

056, are you still around the east?


----------



## tramp bushler

*Sorry no pics to post .*

But I got some in my phone . Am on the libraries puter so ya'll l have to wait till I gvet nother lap top . Sorry .. Bin down in Southeast off and on this summer fallin yellow cedar and Spruce .. Some pretty spruce too ,. Brought a Duce an Half up over the highway runs great but had an electrical problem in Haines Jct. Thank God for a little indian with a fillet knife and some black tape .. Also bought a Timberjack 330 CP will have it trucked up in a bit ... Pics will be added ... Hi All . Everyone still alive ????


----------



## schmuck.k

tramp bushler said:


> But I got some in my phone . Am on the libraries puter so ya'll l have to wait till I gvet nother lap top . Sorry .. Bin down in Southeast off and on this summer fallin yellow cedar and Spruce .. Some pretty spruce too ,. Brought a Duce an Half up over the highway runs great but had an electrical problem in Haines Jct. Thank God for a little indian with a fillet knife and some black tape .. Also bought a Timberjack 330 CP will have it trucked up in a bit ... Pics will be added ... Hi All . Everyone still alive ????



sounds like you had a good summer. cant waight for the pics


----------



## Burvol

tramp bushler said:


> But I got some in my phone . Am on the libraries puter so ya'll l have to wait till I gvet nother lap top . Sorry .. Bin down in Southeast off and on this summer fallin yellow cedar and Spruce .. Some pretty spruce too ,. Brought a Duce an Half up over the highway runs great but had an electrical problem in Haines Jct. Thank God for a little indian with a fillet knife and some black tape .. Also bought a Timberjack 330 CP will have it trucked up in a bit ... Pics will be added ... Hi All . Everyone still alive ????



We still here. I have been off work for 2 weeks, during King season


----------



## Greystoke

tramp bushler said:


> But I got some in my phone . Am on the libraries puter so ya'll l have to wait till I gvet nother lap top . Sorry .. Bin down in Southeast off and on this summer fallin yellow cedar and Spruce .. Some pretty spruce too ,. Brought a Duce an Half up over the highway runs great but had an electrical problem in Haines Jct. Thank God for a little indian with a fillet knife and some black tape .. Also bought a Timberjack 330 CP will have it trucked up in a bit ... Pics will be added ... Hi All . Everyone still alive ????



Doin good pard! Where in Southeast were you?


----------



## bitzer

tramp bushler said:


> But I got some in my phone . Am on the libraries puter so ya'll l have to wait till I gvet nother lap top . Sorry .. Bin down in Southeast off and on this summer fallin yellow cedar and Spruce .. Some pretty spruce too ,. Brought a Duce an Half up over the highway runs great but had an electrical problem in Haines Jct. Thank God for a little indian with a fillet knife and some black tape .. Also bought a Timberjack 330 CP will have it trucked up in a bit ... Pics will be added ... Hi All . Everyone still alive ????




Tramp! Can't wait to see some pics man.


----------



## Rounder

Finally remembered the camera. Me and longtime saw partner Aaron (guy running the Husky). Up on Swan Lake, mostly cutting right of way, some select cutting. Stumped high for removal. Cedar, spruce, white pine, lodgepole, piss fir. Good times, pretty spot, made some nice logs - Sam


----------



## mdavlee

Nice pictures Sam.


----------



## bitzer

Good Pics Sam! looks like some pretty country.


----------



## Rounder

Had time for a few more. Aaron falling a rotten cedar, bar stuck in core, Aaron with a nasty hanger, going to fix things, and me gunning one through an ugly layout (not my fault, had a bit to do with that first rotten cedar of Aaron's), lol - Sam


----------



## schmuck.k

great pics sam


----------



## Meadow Beaver

mtsamloggit said:


> Had time for a few more. Aaron falling a rotten cedar, bar stuck in core, Aaron with a nasty hanger, going to fix things, and me gunning one through an ugly layout (not my fault, had a bit to do with that first rotten cedar of Aaron's), lol - Sam



Nice pics Sam, how cold is it there?


----------



## Rounder

Meadow Beaver said:


> Nice pics Sam, how cold is it there?



Was working on Lemhi Pass (7500 ft) the past couple days, snowing hard when we finished today, probably 30 without the wind. Back home here, down in the canyon, it's in the 50's, which don't feel to bad. Just nice and soaking wet, lol - Sam


----------



## Metals406

Nice pictures Sam! That Swan Range is some fun logging. . . Saw the biggest Muley I ever seen up Beaver Creek.

Wanted the boss to stop the crummy so I could blast him, he wouldn't do it cause it was already late, and we were driving back to Kalispell. Damn fine buck he was.


----------



## Meadow Beaver

mtsamloggit said:


> Was working on Lemhi Pass (7500 ft) the past couple days, snowing hard when we finished today, probably 30 without the wind. Back home here, down in the canyon, it's in the 50's, which don't feel to bad. Just nice and soaking wet, lol - Sam



Yeah I live around 1500-2000ft in elevation. All day yesterday it was in the high 40's, really windy, and with a fine mist.


----------



## madhatte

A coworker snapped a few of me bucking a big fir blowdown out of a road today. I'll post 'em as soon as I get 'em.


----------



## forestryworks

Some pictures from the last few days. Got over 200 trees marked for cutting. Lots more pictures and videos coming in the next two months.

This first tree is from the last crappy video I had. Was a roadside hazard. Went down the hill and a tad bit into the creek. 






Fairly steep ground for this part of the world.





Did a bore cut on this pine. Do that about once every 680 trees 





Two of the 15 snags at Lost Lake Camp. Don't hit the regeneration!





This one sucked, nothing to dog into.


----------



## bitzer

Good pics Jameson. That first one was a real ugly sob. How come you bore cut that other one? Small diameter that can't get a wedge in I've actually bored thru the face and out the back to make the room. Looks like you're havin fun though!

Add: Contrary to some popular belief directional small diameter can be a real pita when necessary.


----------



## forestryworks

bitzercreek1 said:


> Good pics Jameson. That first one was a real ugly sob. How come you bore cut that other one? Small diameter that can't get a wedge in I've actually bored thru the face and out the back to make the room. Looks like you're havin fun though!
> 
> Add: Contrary to some popular belief directional small diameter can be a real pita when necessary.



Thanks for the good word.

As for the bore cut: spur of the moment. I hardly ever bore cut, unless I'm bucking. But then again I hardly ever buck. It's all cut and run here.


----------



## bitzer

forestryworks said:


> It's all cut and run here.



Thats the best kind!


----------



## Burvol

*My good friend, log cutter buddy*







My buddy got a friggin' slug on the last day of WA archery this weekend. Called within 10 yards at the shot. 6 point Roosevelt Bull, right down the road from Slowp! I am so happy for him, he is a one heck of a good guy that scouted hard and worked his ass off for this bull. I am very proud!


----------



## slowp

A coworker got a 5 point in her yard last week. Hunt Packwood!


----------



## Metals406

That's a damn respectable bull! :drool:

Our archery is in full swing right now. . . General rifle starts end of October. I'd like to shoot me a bull like that, but the fact is, I love elk meat -- so I'll take the first legal one that crosses my path.


----------



## mdavlee

That is a nice bull for sure. I wish I could come out there and hunt them. All we have is the little whitetail.


----------



## Rounder

"I'll take the first legal one that crosses my path."

-Yessir, if I can get away from the saw- Sam


----------



## Cedarkerf

*PNW fashion*

Its after labor day so we know its gonna be gray and wet till May. So fashion manufacturers like Filson,Grudens, Carhart, will be back in fashion with materials like tin wear, gortex, neoprene, polyurethane will be back in style. Got a Filson double logger jacket for my birthday very timely indeed as its very wet and cool lately. The bonus our local small town store has the cheapest price in the country that I could find. $129 minus a fifteen percent coupon. Filson retal$170. Pants are running $109.Theyve got pretty good stock if any bodys looking,


----------



## slowp

A bit too warm for tin pants here. We've had about 4 inches of rain since Friday. I traipsed around in the rain this afternoon with a group of loggers. 
We were pondering how to get trees down the steep hill to the trucks. 

One said rather forlornly, "It must be Summer somewhere."


----------



## Erock

Some pictures of my crew in order Blair, Me, Grant, Adam and lets not forget the saws. 046 with a 24" bar (my baby) and and 036 with a 20" bar. We hate aspen!


----------



## bitzer

Erock said:


> Some pictures of my crew in order Blair, Me, Grant, Adam and lets not forget the saws. 046 with a 24" bar (my baby) and and 036 with a 20" bar. We hate aspen!



What do you guys do? 

Aspen is like cutting butter and they actually grow kinda straight too.


----------



## Metals406

Erock said:


> Some pictures of my crew in order Blair, Me, Grant, Adam and lets not forget the saws. 046 with a 24" bar (my baby) and and 036 with a 20" bar. We hate aspen!


















Welcome to Arboristsite! Looks like you fellas are hankerin' for a fire.


----------



## Metals406

mtsamloggit said:


> "I'll take the first legal one that crosses my path."
> 
> -Yessir, if I can get away from the saw- Sam



You're in the perfect place for it right now too Sam. . . We did hunting camp near Clearwater Lake a number of years ago. There's an elk migration corridor that runs through there, and at the time, it was a section that allowed you to take a spike instead of 4" brow tine.

That year, there was no snow, and full moon the whole dang time, so the hunting sucked (it's normally a great spot). . . But the fishing was awesome! The smallest cutthroat I got out'a there was 5-6 pounds. Them fish were dang near jumping on to the shore chasing my yellow and black Panther Martin.


----------



## Erock

bitzercreek1 said:


> What do you guys do?
> 
> Aspen is like cutting butter and they actually grow kinda straight too.



Fire suppression and fuels reduction projects. Lots of Rx burns in the spring and fall and thin stands that are too crowded. Aspen are our main trees we get to play with along with all the other Boreal forest trees. I like Aspen cause i can drop about 30 trees before i have to even think about touching up the chain!


----------



## bitzer

Erock said:


> Fire suppression and fuels reduction projects. Lots of Rx burns in the spring and fall and thin stands that are too crowded. Aspen are our main trees we get to play with along with all the other Boreal forest trees. I like Aspen cause i can drop about 30 trees before i have to even think about touching up the chain!



Thanks for the info. I guess I didn't think Minn would need a fire crew like that. I gathered thats what you were set up for just didn't realize the need up there. Shows how much I know. 




Demo-ing a critter condo. The boss has a trap line set up for varmints that wreak havoc on his food plots. Hollowed out Basswoods are like a high rise apartment. I tipped one we spotted while making the rounds this am. Skidded it out and back to my real job for today. Stores are stocking up for winter fishing. Filling orders and setting up programs. Its 84 and humid today. Sept. 1 hit and it was like flipping a switch from 90 to 60. Today its back to summer.


----------



## Cedarkerf

The son inlaw just went down to Colorado with his crew to cut bug kill trees for a few weeks. We should be done with fires up here till june as we've had a full fall rain onslaught


----------



## Erock

Cedarkerf said:


> The son inlaw just went down to Colorado with his crew to cut bug kill trees for a few weeks. We should be done with fires up here till june as we've had a full fall rain onslaught



That sounds like a sweet detail. i'm hoping to land a job out west next season. I'd like to get into more fires and some bigger timber. You on a crew yourself?


----------



## RandyMac

True forestry crews are fun, tons more things to do than just waiting for fires, station work really sucks.


----------



## Jacob J.

Cedarkerf said:


> The son inlaw just went down to Colorado with his crew to cut bug kill trees for a few weeks. We should be done with fires up here till june as we've had a full fall rain onslaught



Brian- Sounds like your son-in-law is on one of the hotshot crews. I don't think any of the regular type 2 crews went on the R2 bark beetle mitigation project.


----------



## Cedarkerf

Erock said:


> That sounds like a sweet detail. i'm hoping to land a job out west next season. I'd like to get into more fires and some bigger timber. You on a crew yourself?


Nope just an old fart wannabe that came from a logging family pics of grandad back in the 50's had his own gypo out fit till early 70's








Pic of the son in law last year from the PNW you wouldnt understand thread


Cedarkerf said:


> The son in law dropping a big pine last fire season







Jacob J. said:


> Brian- Sounds like your son-in-law is on one of the hotshot crews. I don't think any of the regular type 2 crews went on the R2 bark beetle mitigation project.



Yup Baker river out of Concrete


----------



## STEVEGODSEYJR

Cedarkerf said:


> Nope just an old fart wannabe that came from a logging family pics of grandad back in the 50's had his own gypo out fit till early 70's
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pic of the son in law last year from the PNW you wouldnt understand thread
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yup Baker river out of Concrete







Sweet pics!!! looks like hard work but also lots of fun!! Steve


----------



## Erock

hey i was wondering what the advantage of doing block face cuts with a snipe. I'd never heard or seen that till i joined here. Typically I just do conventional or humbolt with the occasional boring back cut for back leaners.


----------



## RandyMac

Erock said:


> hey i was wondering what the advantage of doing block face cuts with a snipe. I'd never heard or seen that till i joined here. Typically I just do conventional or humbolt with the occasional boring back cut for back leaners.



Oh Grasshopper!

Hunt around in this forum, the subject has been discussed in lurid detail.
I will give you the short version.
It is used when you need to controll how long the trunk stays on the stump, what the butt does when it hits the stump and what the tree does after it leaves the stump. When done correctly, you can control what the tree does from first tilt, to big noise. It is/was used in the big stuff, it just doesn't do to scatter a valuble tree all over a hillside.


----------



## stihl sawing

Awesome pics guys, Thanks for posting.


----------



## Jacob J.

Cedarkerf said:


> Yup Baker river out of Concrete



That's really cool. I've worked with the Baker River crew and Entiat too.


----------



## madhatte

RandyMac said:


> True forestry crews are fun, tons more things to do than just waiting for fires, station work really sucks.




Thassa fact! However, I wish my crew got to get around more. Unfortunately, we're pretty much overloaded as it is, even on our tiny little ownership (~100,000 acres).


----------



## Erock

madhatte said:


> Thassa fact! However, I wish my crew got to get around more. Unfortunately, we're pretty much overloaded as it is, even on our tiny little ownership (~100,000 acres).



where are you based out of?


----------



## madhatte

Erock said:


> where are you based out of?



A federal agency on the south end of Puget Sound. Sorry I gotta be a bit cagey about who, exactly, but I'm sure you can figure it out easily enough.


----------



## bitzer

Had a small trail blazin job this morning. It may have been a 150 yard jog or so cutting the swampy corner off of the orignal trail. It was thick and thorny in there to say the least. Before pic from yesterday afternoon. Just fell a couple and mapped it out. The real bs began this morning. Doing this to make a better access road to get about 1/4 mile into the property. 







Couple of ugly sticks. The thorny crap in the foreground filled in all of that empty space. 






Would this be considered a coon shank? Or is that species or region specific?


----------



## bitzer

The wind is blowin 20 to 30 here with gusts up to 40 or so. It helped with some and got a little sketchy on others. Got to play with some new stuff today though. My modded single bit and some K&Hs. Found a place about 30 min away that sells em and they don't kill me on the price. I added about an inch to the pall and gained a half a pound. 

Had to castrate the coon before I took it down. 





After from first pic. 





Bottom of the hill. The road is mostly for the bigger job further in. A couple hundred trees in a soft area. I may have to wait for the ground to get hard. It was pretty mushy when I was marking them this afternoon.


----------



## Burvol

A Coon #$%& is a conifer thing. Usually around snow break, or other defect from when the tree was young, and a second, or multiple tops grow to make a new canopy. One or two usually win, and the rest either die or turn real peakeked. Usually a Coon #$%& is a dead one. Hence, it resembles the bone in a racoon's penis, or so the old timers said. Ya, I know. People were just as easily ammused before Al Gore invented the internet! LOL


----------



## Rounder

A few pics from this week. Back at Swan Lake. Aaron (Husky) and I (Stihl) had to peel a few more off the cut for the road contractors. Nice as Grand Fir get around here, tall and straight without much taper - Sam


----------



## RandyMac

*BURVOL!!!!*

How is that two toned gal treating you?

I hope all is well with you and your's.


----------



## Rounder

A few more. Aaron and his sardine can at the camp show, view from camp, before and after of what we're up to, token dog/crummy shot - Sam


----------



## slowp

mtsamloggit said:


> A few more. Aaron and his sardine can at the camp show, view from camp, before and after of what we're up to, token dog/crummy shot - Sam



Camp looks like it has a beach. Sigh...I'd want my kayak there and would want to skip work. Fish?


----------



## Rounder

slowp said:


> Camp looks like it has a beach. Sigh...I'd want my kayak there and would want to skip work. Fish?



A little too beat to fish, but I'll bring a float tube next time, some nice trout rising - Sam


----------



## Metals406

slowp said:


> Camp looks like it has a beach. Sigh...I'd want my kayak there and would want to skip work. Fish?



The Lake Trout (Mack) has really put a hurting on Swan Lake. . . The Fin & Fur have actually been netting them out to make more room for Native Cutthroat and others.

Swan Lake is a good fishing/boating lake though. . . You'd thoroughly enjoy it slowp.


----------



## Metals406

mtsamloggit said:


> A little too beat to fish, but I'll bring a float tube next time, some nice trout rising - Sam



Sam. . . Let me know if you're gonna be back in the Swan, or close -- sorry we weren't able to meet up last week.


----------



## Rounder

Yeah Nate, those dang Macs sure ain't helping the bulls and cutts out at all. Anyhow, we'll get together for a beer and handlebar one of these days. Looks like I'm back down this away for a little while, but I'll be back up your way one of these days. - Sam


----------



## 056 kid

RandyMac said:


> *BURVOL!!!!*
> 
> How is that two toned gal treating you?
> 
> I hope all is well with you and your's.



She didnt kill you did she? I been tryin to get in touch, got my 7mm scoped & on paper @ 200yds. 

We gots work to do B!!


----------



## slowp

Not about falling, well, maybe falling down. The boy (The Used Dog) and I will be off today hunting the elusive huckleberry. It has been a dismal year for them. I gave up. 

The trail guys came in and shared information. If it is true, they'll be getting a huckleberry pie. They told of a field where the berries exist and are nice in quantity and size. 

The Used Dog and I will be packing in a mile or so to get there. I plan to spend the day in the patch if it turns out to be good. Yum. 

Maybe some more taunting pictures?


----------



## RandyMac

You are evil.


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> Not about falling, well, maybe falling down. The boy (The Used Dog) and I will be off today hunting the elusive huckleberry. It has been a dismal year for them. I gave up.
> 
> The trail guys came in and shared information. If it is true, they'll be getting a huckleberry pie. They told of a field where the berries exist and are nice in quantity and size.
> 
> The Used Dog and I will be packing in a mile or so to get there. I plan to spend the day in the patch if it turns out to be good. Yum.
> 
> Maybe some more taunting pictures?



If you post any more "taunting pictures" of huckleberry pie I'll post pictures of sitting in the warm sunshine on the back deck at Grass Valley, in cut-offs and T-shirts, in January. I'll post them when it's been raining in Randle for three weeks and you have to dress up like you're going on a polar expedition just to bring more stove wood in. So there.


----------



## RandyMac

You are evil too.


----------



## slowp

Well, time to start loading up the packs, with gallon bags. Pie crust was on sale at Wally World when I last visited, and is in the freezer. 

Taunting done for today. :greenchainsaw: Maybe.


----------



## bitzer

Burvol said:


> A Coon #$%& is a conifer thing. Usually around snow break, or other defect from when the tree was young, and a second, or multiple tops grow to make a new canopy. One or two usually win, and the rest either die or turn real peakeked. Usually a Coon #$%& is a dead one. Hence, it resembles the bone in a racoon's penis, or so the old timers said. Ya, I know. People were just as easily ammused before Al Gore invented the internet! LOL



Thanks for the history on that. I still think its a little funny. I love that old timer terminology. Gotta keep that stuff around. 



Real nice pics again Sam!


----------



## forestryworks

Well I ain't been on the saw in a month. I think it shows in this video 

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/cfrS-btY0Ns?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/cfrS-btY0Ns?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Q7fZhMEjgWw?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Q7fZhMEjgWw?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>


----------



## slowp

*No Pictures, A Story*

This story was told to me today, on the landing. The story teller was told the story by his father. 

The place? The Harbor Country. I suspect that is the area around Gray's Harbor. WA which is on the coast. The time? When trees of 16 foot diameter were cut by men with misery whips. 

Two guys came into the logging camp looking for work as fallers. They had their pants tucked into their boots so they looked like they were "Farmer Loggers." Calling somebody a Farmer Logger is an insult, and is still done today. 

Apparently, saws were handed out to fallers by the company. So, thinking that these guys were merely Farmer Loggers, a joke was played on them. They were given short saws. Four foot long misery whips, which were too small to cut anything with. 

At the end of the day, these guys came back all tired and said they were quitting as it was too much work to cut the trees this way. They got paid and left. The other guys were laughing about the Farmer Loggers.

The company guys went out to see what had happened. They saw that the Farmer Loggers had been climbing the trees using springboards up to where the trees were small enough to fit the saws, and had cut quite a few trees this way. They had worked 90 feet up in some of the trees. 

The company guys realized that they had lost a couple of very good workers that day.....


----------



## forestryworks

That's a good story, slowp. Thanks for sharing it.

Logging of those days was crude and primitive, with lots of wood wasted... from what I've read here and other places and various books. But there were a lot more colorful characters back then as well.


----------



## RandyMac

90 feet?!!
I have gone with three sets of staging, call it 12 feet.

Jameson, I hit you on FB


----------



## slowp

RandyMac said:


> 90 feet?!!
> I have gone with three sets of staging, call it 12 feet.



Yes, 90, ninety feet is how it was told today. This story cannot be confirmed or denied, but it is a good tale whether true or not. 

I also heard the term, "Walking a tree around" today. Which is some way to swing a leaner around. I still don't understand it because I haven't seen it done. I'm kind of dumb that way.

Oh, and that wood was not wasted. That wasted wood, if it survived burning, is now something to be protected.  The old culls are now called "Legacy Logs" by the various biologists and add to the diversity of the second growth forest. Buffers are placed around them. Whoda thunk that!


----------



## RandyMac

I know what you are talking about, I have done it, there are a few ways to do it. Burv can put it into fewer words. It involves more attention to the backcut, what you leave as much as what is cut. A narrow blockcut, with the snipe cut to favor one side, for the hinge, leaving a bit of a "post" off center to the side where the swing wants to be. Then you cut the hinge wood thin on the other side, as the tree tilts, the butt will contact the outside corner of the snipe giving it the "swing" part. The trunk will continue forward and sideways until it finds the hole left by the snipe, it will start ripping the hinge on the far side as it pivots on the post, full contact on the snipe will give the stem a good twist before launching it off the stump. There are other variations, this one works well with tall and heavy trees.


----------



## Meadow Beaver

forestryworks said:


> Well I ain't been on the saw in a month. I think it shows in this video
> 
> <object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/cfrS-btY0Ns?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/cfrS-btY0Ns?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>
> 
> <object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Q7fZhMEjgWw?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Q7fZhMEjgWw?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>



Jameson, when did you get the 660?


----------



## forestryworks

Meadow Beaver said:


> Jameson, when did you get the 660?



Back in June.


----------



## Meadow Beaver

forestryworks said:


> Back in June.



Did ya buy her new?


----------



## forestryworks

Bought it used. 066.


----------



## Rounder

I also heard the term, "Walking a tree around" today. Which is some way to swing a leaner around. I still don't understand it because I haven't seen it done. I'm kind of dumb that way.

-Not sure if this is what you're talking about, cuz terminology varies a lot by region, but around here it involves using three face cuts, each bigger than the last. You take just enough holding wood to get it to lay in the first face (the smallest) and repeat twice more. It'll "walk" the tree right around if yer careful to save enough holding wood for that last face, usually not much left by the time you get to that last face, if you don't chair it before you get there. Don't work to well on Ponderosa, or other brittle trees, but works pretty slick on fir - Sam


----------



## slowp

Both times I've heard about it, they stressed that the biggest danger was that the tree would sit back and you could then be in some trouble. Also, *not* a good technique for beginners to try. Both these guys cut back in the old growth big tree days.


----------



## bitzer

Good Vids Jameson! Some had to have the balls to put one on here! Good show. 


A soft Dutchman will get the tree to walk around the stump. It can get hairy too if the saw does sit back. Its just making several kerfs under the main gunning kerf. If its done right it gradually changes the lean until you can bring it out to your face.


----------



## madhatte

RandyMac said:


> Jameson, I hit you on FB



Boom! I hit ya too!


----------



## forestryworks

More from yesterday.

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/zIQuhQ4FWjw?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/zIQuhQ4FWjw?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>


----------



## Rounder

Nice vids Jameson, good to see another 066 going to work, some people like to set 'em on shelves and look at them, lol - Sam


----------



## Metals406

forestryworks said:


> More from yesterday.
> 
> <object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/zIQuhQ4FWjw?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/zIQuhQ4FWjw?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>



I iz jealous. . . These snags are a great experience for you. 

Only 300 to go and you're done!


----------



## bitzer

Hey Jameson, did you notice she was limb-locked before hand or were you hoping she'd push through? Just wondering if you had the other one cut up some first.


----------



## forestryworks

bitzercreek1 said:


> Hey Jameson, did you notice she was limb-locked before hand or were you hoping she'd push through? Just wondering if you had the other one cut up some first.



I was hoping that one limb on the bigger snag would break as it tipped. No go. Lesson learned! Was a big limby pine... almost bull pine status.


----------



## 056 kid

you can try narrowing your face or leaving some kirf to pop the hinge real close to when you have limb problems. Usually gravity will help em down through the mess with no hinge to direct. You are gonna loose some accuracy but its more fun than beating a wedge or worse, getting pinched or getting clocked.

Great work btw!


----------



## bitzer

056 kid said:


> you can try narrowing your face or leaving some kirf to pop the hinge real close to when you have limb problems. Usually gravity will help em down through the mess with no hinge to direct. You are gonna loose some accuracy but its more fun than beating a wedge or worse, getting pinched or getting clocked.
> 
> Great work btw!



Yeah that and a deep face will help some too. Gun till it starts to sit. I've also snipped the hinge on one side to get it to roll as its coming down, but that can get kinda sketchy and can throw #### everywhere, especially in snags.


----------



## bitzer

forestryworks said:


> I was hoping that one limb on the bigger snag would break as it tipped. No go. Lesson learned! Was a big limby pine... almost bull pine status.



Its amazing how those dead branches will hang on. I'd say 9 times out of 10 they won't break even though you'd think they would. Good show though man!


----------



## Evan

awesome thread.
im not in the industry but heres a pic of my last tree, a 46" fir.


----------



## forestryworks

Evan said:


> awesome thread.
> im not in the industry but heres a pic of my last tree, a 46" fir.



You made that thing smile!


----------



## Meadow Beaver

Yes, you hear tree huggers say trees can cry and scream when cut, but that tree seems to like it.


----------



## bitzer

Nice lookin face Evan!


----------



## forestryworks

*The rustiness still shows*

33" DBH Oak. Had giant galls or knots all over on the off side.
<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/stjydnWr2qs?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/stjydnWr2qs?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

The backcut makes me cringe  But I will admit I was more focused on that wobbly top than proper backcut placement.
<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/cxE4d9o6w0I?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/cxE4d9o6w0I?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>


----------



## forestryworks

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/0fv269Wh5sU?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/0fv269Wh5sU?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>


----------



## bitzer

Nice Crapper Jameson! It sucks when a gush of stinky water comes with it. Bad backcuts happen. You did change the gun a little on that one though after clearing the face out. Glad you moved the camera around on these though so we can see the face work. Good to see the show!


----------



## RandyMac

bitzercreek1 said:


> Nice Crapper Jameson! It sucks when a gush of stinky water comes with it. Bad backcuts happen. You did change the gun a little on that one though after clearing the face out. * Glad you moved the camera around on these though so we can see the face work*. Good to see the show!



That is exactly what I was thinking.


----------



## forestryworks

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/oZ1HLO8o0Z0?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/oZ1HLO8o0Z0?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>


----------



## bitzer

Soft dutchman. Not the prettiest stump, but I guess this is what I would consider walking the tree around. Basswood with some back/side lean. You can see how far the first kerf is before it sat down. That could be why its easy to lose it. This one came around a little farther than I wanted it to with a little help from the wind.


----------



## STEVEGODSEYJR

bitzercreek1 said:


> Soft dutchman. Not the prettiest stump, but I guess this is what I would consider walking the tree around. Basswood with some back/side lean. You can see how far the first kerf is before it sat down. That could be why its easy to lose it. This one came around a little farther than I wanted it to with a little help from the wind.




Just exactly how does the soft dutchmen work? seriously..Is there a regular dutchman? steve


----------



## hammerlogging

Yea, sure, a single bypass on the horizontal of the face cut, on the under the lean side. I trust I'll be corrected if thats not just right.

Bitzer man, good work. Depending on the extent, finding a hollow butt adds to the variables, eh? Say, "what have I got to work with here?" Great job, FW, good video, everybody, keep slammin or whatever else it is you do. If you're doing it, might as well rock it!


----------



## Rounder

"Yea, sure, a single bypass on the horizontal of the face cut, on the under the lean side. I trust I'll be corrected if thats not just right."

Got it right by Montana methodolgy - Sam


----------



## bitzer

Thanks Hammer. I've gotten pretty decent over the years about judging the ugliness inside. I knew there would be some rot in this one, but not enough to give me trouble. That being said I should probably establish a face first and then gun the dutch back. The way I did it I was already commited to what I wanted to do. It worked and I got lucky. Not always. 

I've got a pic of one in my camera at the shop with only a couple of inches of rind on decent sized log. When I put the face in that one I could reach my arm in all the way to the back. The back cut was gun and run.


----------



## bitzer

STEVEGODSEYJR said:


> Just exactly how does the soft dutchmen work? seriously..Is there a regular dutchman? steve



Steve. Here is some shameless promotion with my own pics, but it should help you get the gist. Regular Dutchman. In the first pic the tree is in the middle with all of the knots on it. The bypass is under the lean like Hammer said and is cut back to where the tree would want to fall naturally. The little chunk out of the stump has nothing to do with the dutchman. 











When the tree starts to tip the dutch side closes and breaks the hinge on that side causing the tree to pivot and swing away from the lean out to the face where you want it. When the face closes the other side of the hinge breaks and its all over. There is a limit to how far a tree can be swung like this as is with any method. 

The soft dutchman changes the lean gradually because the hinge does not break on the swing side due to the relief cuts below it. Its able to sit down and kind of walk around the stump. With this one its all about keeping the tree moving and watching the top when you're in the back cut. You're trying to fell a tree without having to wedge it where wedging would normally be required. Once its past its halfway point and starts to commit to the face you have to cut the hinge on the swing side (or at least I do). Sometimes the shelves break off and sometimes not. These stayed on the stump, but I went and pushed on the top one afterwards and it was cracked as well as the second one down. Thats about the best I can explain it or at least understand it for now.


----------



## Burvol

Nobody does the piece of pie with Dutchman? Your missing out....roots pulling up under your calks, the tree coming around so far you swear it's gonna smash you, lol. Try it. The siswel cut. 

Been chaotic here. I'll be back. Cutting some 4 length fir and pine again. Oh baby :rockn:


----------



## Burvol

The Dutch were considered the sloppiest of all European immigrants in during the Industrial Revolution. Say that was suppose to be a regular face, but had a slight over-cut in the gun line, a "Dutchman" so to speak, as in he would just leave it sloppy and keep going, or lazy. Wedging in the 1800's did not really exist other than for the unexpected wind shift, sit back, ect. They dumped em' where they laid, and stopped bucking where the big limbs started.


----------



## RandyMac

Hah ha, hadn't heard that one. So, I suppose my ancestors just did with a backcut.


----------



## Burvol

bitzercreek1 said:


> Steve. Here is some shameless promotion with my own pics, but it should help you get the gist. Regular Dutchman. In the first pic the tree is in the middle with all of the knots on it. The bypass is under the lean like Hammer said and is cut back to where the tree would want to fall naturally. The little chunk out of the stump has nothing to do with the dutchman.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the tree starts to tip the dutch side closes and breaks the hinge on that side causing the tree to pivot and swing away from the lean out to the face where you want it. When the face closes the other side of the hinge breaks and its all over. There is a limit to how far a tree can be swung like this as is with any method.
> 
> The soft dutchman changes the lean gradually because the hinge does not break on the swing side due to the relief cuts below it. Its able to sit down and kind of walk around the stump. With this one its all about keeping the tree moving and watching the top when you're in the back cut. You're trying to fell a tree without having to wedge it where wedging would normally be required. Once its past its halfway point and starts to commit to the face you have to cut the hinge on the swing side (or at least I do). Sometimes the shelves break off and sometimes not. These stayed on the stump, but I went and pushed on the top one afterwards and it was cracked as well as the second one down. Thats about the best I can explain it or at least understand it for now.



That's hardwood world though. Our conifers do and can break off, but generally they don't compared to your wood on the swing. That's where the siswel comes into play. It takes the hinge out of that "vice" that holds all the pressure. After awhile you'll figure out the suicide swing, which in most cases is just as effective, and is way faster. I use it a fair bit, but most times it's subconsious. Pull out the Dutchman on the really bad stuff. Suicide swing works by sawing up your side almost all the way (think, make tree start moving, not sitting like Dutch), then reaching over and cutting your corner up or off, and then peeling the rest of the hinge back around to you.


----------



## Burvol

RandyMac said:


> Hah ha, hadn't heard that one. So, I suppose my ancestors just did with a backcut.



Fu$&ing Randy  I knew it! 

I just couldn't bare to tell you.


----------



## slowp

Dutch might well be a corruption of the word Deutch (Sp? I took classes in Spanish for a reason! which would mean German. 

Just some trivia for this morning's conversation. :biggrinbounce2:


----------



## RandyMac

Burvol said:


> Fu$&ing Randy  I knew it!
> 
> I just couldn't bare to tell you.



LMAO!!!
Not many trees in the old country, mostly rocks and viking bones. I bet they went ape#### here and didn't quit.
I misplaced your number, please PM it if you would be so kind.

A chaotic life is interesting, is it not?


----------



## bitzer

Burvol said:


> That's hardwood world though. Our conifers do and can break off, but generally they don't compared to your wood on the swing. That's where the siswel comes into play. It takes the hinge out of that "vice" that holds all the pressure. After awhile you'll figure out the suicide swing, which in most cases is just as effective, and is way faster. I use it a fair bit, but most times it's subconsious. Pull out the Dutchman on the really bad stuff. Suicide swing works by sawing up your side almost all the way (think, make tree start moving, not sitting like Dutch), then reaching over and cutting your corner up or off, and then peeling the rest of the hinge back around to you.



Thanks for the tip Burv. I've been thinking about trying the siswel out. I had an elm yesterday That I should have tried it on. Though about it, but dutched it and settled for the results. If I could have really pulled it around it would have been easier to skid laying it parallel to the road. Ended up at about a 45 to the road. Still worked but could have been better. Elm is pretty stringy and I think it would hold well. 

So with the siswel there is no dutch on the far side? I'd been thinking I'd need both. I think crown weight plays more of a factor over here. Really just the right situation and the right tree to use it on. Enough room to move.


----------



## earache

Great thread. Love the pics!!! Here is a poor quality pic that I took with my cell phone of a red oak that I felled July of this year. Walkerized 372XP with 28" bar. I will post up a few more.


----------



## 056 kid

Your link no worky.


----------



## earache

Should work now. Sorry about that, hadn't posted a pic in this manner before. I'll catch on...


----------



## 056 kid

Pretty tree, try sizing it up alittle with paint. I think that will work..


----------



## earache

Here is another red oak from the same day. Bucked this one into 8's.


----------



## earache

This is another poor quality cell phone pic, but I digress. This was a soft maple with a real low split. I had just about cut through the side that peeled off and POP, it came apart. Real quick-like. And, yes I was standing on the stupid side. I ducked and weaved JUST in time as, SWOOOSH, right past my melon. By the time I had taken this pic the side that is cut had settled a ways. How do you get the cobwebs out before they get knocked out!?!


----------



## 056 kid

paint???


----------



## Gologit

056 kid said:


> paint???



Paint what?


----------



## Metals406

gologit said:


> paint what?



*Hi Bob!!*


----------



## slowp

And, what color of paint would you be usin'? :rant:


----------



## Metals406

slowp said:


> And, what color of paint would you be usin'? :rant:



Pink?


----------



## Gologit

Metals406 said:


> Pink?



 HI NATE !! How goes it?


----------



## Metals406

Gologit said:


> HI NATE !! How goes it?



Just plodding along. . . You been working or playing semi-retired?


----------



## Gologit

Metals406 said:


> Just plodding along. . . You been working or playing semi-retired?



LOLOLOL....Both. Too much of one and not enough of the other. The phone keeps ringing and I keep answering it...I'll never learn. Too many people think that 'cause I got gray hair, wrinkles, worn out boots , big saws, and a grouchy attitude, that I know what I'm doing. 

I _am_ planning on working harder at being semi-retired. It's a _lot_ more fun.


----------



## Metals406

Gologit said:


> LOLOLOL....Both. Too much of one and not enough of the other. The phone keeps ringing and I keep answering it...I'll never learn. Too many people think that 'cause I got gray hair, wrinkles, worn out boots , big saws, and a grouchy attitude, that I know what I'm doing.
> 
> I _am_ planning on working harder at being semi-retired. It's a _lot_ more fun.



You want to play semi-retired more. . . Just let me make the message for your answering machine -- nobody will call again. . . Ever. 

You been cut'n some pumpkins or what? (pics or it didn't happen)


----------



## Frank Savage

Burvol said:


> That's hardwood world though. Our conifers do and can break off, but generally they don't compared to your wood on the swing. That's where the siswel comes into play. It takes the hinge out of that "vice" that holds all the pressure. After awhile you'll figure out the suicide swing, which in most cases is just as effective, and is way faster. I use it a fair bit, but most times it's subconsious. Pull out the Dutchman on the really bad stuff. Suicide swing works by sawing up your side almost all the way (think, make tree start moving, not sitting like Dutch), then reaching over and cutting your corner up or off, and then peeling the rest of the hinge back around to you.



Hi Burvol, I´m sorry, but I have to please You to explain the suicide swing quite, errrr, in extened manners. Maybe one word per page with a lot of pictures http://www.arboristsite.com/images/icons/icon7.gif (but no joke about the picture)
Maybe I´m just stupid, or (my explanation, of course biassed, I know http://www.arboristsite.com/images/icons/icon10.gif ) it´s the problem I´m not from english speaking country and still I´m not good enought in eng. terms. I understand it should be about starting the tree to move, then sawing in pattern to "saw the ground from under the tree´s foot" to make it walk around. But I can not figure out esp. when the tree should start to move, as well as the direction and placing of cuts in last sequence, where I just suppose the tree being somewher in the middle of the swing http://www.arboristsite.com/images/smilies/monkey.gifterms:monkey:

What I only can figure out is a harakiri swig, where I´m ending with my head smashed either by bark/splinters from back part of especialy snag/splinters from torqued part of the hinge from iside of the backcut. Not good way to teach myself something new (or am I just sissy?http://www.arboristsite.com/images/smilies/monkey.gif)...


----------



## 056 kid

Gologit said:


> Paint what?



microsoft paint for his pictures..


----------



## hammerlogging

earache said:


> . How do you get the cobwebs out before they get knocked out!?!QUOTE]
> 
> Thats there is a great way!
> 
> A little monday morning wake up call.
> 
> Keeps it interesting.


----------



## bitzer

Basswood from last friday. The top was well over the back so I thought for sure it would sit. The first pause in the back cut I was reaching for a wedge, but it started moving so I had to hit the far side right away and then back to my side. Stayed on the saw a little long, but it came around ok. I knew there would be some rot in this one, but the face was clean. Good and hollow in the back though. Keeps it interesting. <object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/D_VOHxT9Gog?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/D_VOHxT9Gog?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>


----------



## Rounder

*Different*

Got a gig this week tripping a bunch of dead cottonwood. No logs sawed here.
My 394 (favorite saw) tossed it's cookies the first tank. Kind of put a damper on the day - $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ - Sam


----------



## Metals406

mtsamloggit said:


> Got a gig this week tripping a bunch of dead cottonwood. No logs sawed here.
> My 394 (favorite saw) tossed it's cookies the first tank. Kind of put a damper on the day - $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ - Sam



Sam. . . Sorry to hear about the Husky. Top end or bottom end?

As a side, there's a knife maker in your neck of the woods buying cottonwood burl for knife handles. 

Here's his info. . . Dude makes some nice knives.

John Doyle : http://bitterrootcustomknifeworks.com/

Bitterroot Custom Knifeworks


----------



## Rounder

Nate, pulled the muff, piston's shot. Got a feeling a failed bearing may have been the culprit. Didn't have time to go any deeper, not really sure, just severe scoring on the piston. From what I saw, the cylinder will probably make a real nice pencil holder. Probably just pay the shop to tear it down and diagnose, can't afford to do anything else right now (394 P/C's are NOT cheap). Way to much time spent wrenching lately. 

Thanks for the link to the knife maker, I'll get in touch with him, be nice to see something come of that wood. - Sam


----------



## forestryworks

mtsamloggit said:


> Nate, pulled the muff, piston's shot. Got a feeling a failed bearing may have been the culprit. Didn't have time to go any deeper, not really sure, just severe scoring on the piston. From what I saw, the cylinder will probably make a real nice pencil holder. Probably just pay the shop to tear it down and diagnose, can't afford to do anything else right now (394 P/C's are NOT cheap). Way to much time spent wrenching lately.
> 
> Thanks for the link to the knife maker, I'll get in touch with him, be nice to see something come of that wood. - Sam



What is your next favorite saw?


----------



## Cedarkerf

mtsamloggit said:


> Got a gig this week tripping a bunch of dead cottonwood.  No logs sawed here.
> My 394 (favorite saw) tossed it's cookies the first tank. Kind of put a damper on the day - $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ - Sam



Ya gotta hate the smell of cotton wood in the morning. To bad about the 394.

Kill em all


----------



## forestryworks

Some photos from a wonky roadside hazard.


----------



## Rounder

forestryworks said:


> What is your next favorite saw?



I really like my ported 66, just not as smooth in the hands as the 394. It does pull chain like a SOB though. - Sam


----------



## Metals406

Jameson, If I didn't know any better, that "roadside snag" looks an awful lot like a telephone pole. You ain't drinking again are ya?


----------



## forestryworks

Metals406 said:


> Jameson, If I didn't know any better, that "roadside snag" looks an awful lot like a telephone pole. You ain't drinking again are ya?



Lol, now that you mention it, it does look like a telephone pole.


----------



## Spotted Owl

forestryworks said:


> Some photos from a wonky roadside hazard.



Nice, but your face is upside down:biggrinbounce2:


Owl


----------



## bitzer

Burvol- The buzzards have been circling the woods all week so I thought it was time for the suicide swing. Seriously, nearly every time I looked up they were there. Anyway, the elm held like I thought it would, but the hard maple just broke fibers and didn't get much more swing then just a thick hinge. I've got some more testing to do though. The first elm I did, it came around past the face and I had to clip it or it would have kept going. I thought I had plenty of room, but it was brushing tops way out in front yet. I can see how it would be really effective with tall wood out your way. It seems like it needs more room than just a dutch would. These trees were about as green as I ever get into, dying or busted out tops with sprawling growth. I had a couple spitting water in the backcut. This was mostly little stuff in the 20" dbh and 70' tall range. Decent straight wood as far as these go though.


----------



## bitzer

Here is a few from this last job.

Black Ash. 





Basswood from the vid. 





First tree this morning. Black Ash.





Same leaning Black Ash. I don't think these are prone to chairing, but it was out there. The ground cover is pretty tight here too so I just wanted to get it on the ground decent. I put a dutch in this one and it sat down right away. I could feel some serious tension when boring so I took a pic before I went back any farther. I just cut out the back and was almost fast enough, but it made its own strap. I see my backcut was a little tipsy. 





The black dots on the butt are carpenter ants. It was full of them. They were moving a little slow this morning.


----------



## bitzer

Heres a couple more. Mini choking. The little guys and tops are a pita to skid. Especially when trying to save everything around it. I'd rather be skidding decent logs all day. Much easier and they roll. 






The landing this morning. Probably about four decent days work by myself. Had some equipment issues that slowed me down and a couple other obligations that called me off the job a few times. It was good to be in the woods every day for nearly a week though.


----------



## Rounder

*Spar Tree*

Needed a spar tree today, so we dragged Cody out with us. Not really, just a beetle kill removal. Glad we had him, the land owner parked his camper where we had meant to free fall the trees. 

Thanks again Cody, ya made that one go a lot easier! - Sam


----------



## Greystoke

Fun day with friends, and lunch thrown in...what more could a guy ask for! Except I still think I should have bought some whiskey to drink on the way home Thanks for the pics man.


----------



## slowp

Is the yarder in the cabin?


----------



## Rounder

tarzanstree said:


> Fun day with friends, and lunch thrown in...what more could a guy ask for! Except I still think I should have bought some whiskey to drink on the way home Thanks for the pics man.



Whiskey?....I thought we were talkin' Scotch earlier.....lol, we'll have to make up for that after a day of casting and blasting one of these days - Sam


----------



## forestryworks

Good job fellas!

Hey Sam and Cody, now you guys don't forget to drag Nate with ya next time. He'll get jealous and sit at home and drink bad beer. :greenchainsaw:


----------



## Metals406

forestryworks said:


> Good job fellas!
> 
> Hey Sam and Cody, now you guys don't forget to drag Nate with ya next time. He'll get jealous and sit at home and drink bad beer. :greenchainsaw:



Hey now!


----------



## Gologit

Here's one of somebody most of the PNW gang know well. She says she's not a faller...but we know better.


----------



## slowp

Bad, bad Bob! No pie for you.


----------



## RandyMac

Git 'em Miss P


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> Bad, bad Bob! No pie for you.



Uh oh. I don't mind having people mad at me, and I'm sure used to having women mad at me, but that "no pie" thing is a real bummer. Any way I can redeem myself?


----------



## RandyMac

Did you forget that she knows were you live?


----------



## Gologit

RandyMac said:


> Did you forget that she knows were you live?



Probably.


----------



## Metals406

Gologit said:


> Probably.



You're too young to have part-timers all ready.


----------



## Metals406

Gologit said:


> Here's one of somebody most of the PNW gang know well. She says she's not a faller...but we know better.



Slowp get'n'er done! 

:rockn:


----------



## joesawer

Gologit said:


> Here's one of somebody most of the PNW gang know well. She says she's not a faller...but we know better.



Lol she talks about falling all the time! 
Good Job Patty!


----------



## Gologit

joesawer said:


> Lol she talks about falling all the time!
> Good Job Patty!













Actually there's a whole series of these pictures from when Slowp came down and helped us with our volunteer project at NorthStar Mine.

And if she doesn't reconsider this "no pie" attitude I just might post all of them!


----------



## Spotted Owl

Gologit said:


> Actually there's a whole series of these pictures from when Slowp came down and helped us with our volunteer project at NorthStar Mine.
> 
> And if she doesn't reconsider this "no pie" attitude I just might post all of them!



If this keeps up, this will be a very good thread to keep an eye on. Slowp has to have a photo or two of Gologit. She can't go to work without taking photos, how can she possibly head that far and not take a camera with her? 

Hope the berry season was decent for you up north, We got half a gallon of very tiny hard berries. We just used up the last of last years berries. The empty dish was rough knowing we have a year before the next berry season comes back.

Dial up stinks, I lost track of this thread awhile back and to go from there to here would take 4 days.



Owl


----------



## Gologit

Spotted Owl said:


> If this keeps up, this will be a very good thread to keep an eye on. Slowp has to have a photo or two of Gologit. She can't go to work without taking photos, how can she possibly head that far and not take a camera with her?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Owl



Ssshhhhhh, Owl. Don't be giving her any ideas. She can think up enough mischief all by herself. And I'm already on pie probation. Sssshhhhhh.


----------



## Metals406

Gologit said:


> Ssshhhhhh, Owl. Don't be giving her any ideas. She can think up enough mischief all by herself. And I'm already on pie probation.  Sssshhhhhh.



Now that's funny right there!


----------



## RandyMac

it's a good thing she doesn't control the brown liquor.


----------



## Ramblewood

Here are a couple of my cutting partner and I clearing cottonwoods off a creek bank and getting out of the way of the widowmakers that haunt most of these trees .


----------



## Greystoke

RandyMac said:


> it's a good thing she doesn't control the brown liquor.



LOLOL That is a very good thing pard!


----------



## slowp

These are now restricted too. Nothing but Brocolli for the likes of you.


----------



## Spotted Owl

Damn no pie and now no cookies. Wow. I didn't know that when Bob shot himself in the foot that he was standing one foot on top of the other as he pulled the trigger.

What ever jurisdiction this falls under, Washington or California, with two on the books I hope it isn't a three strike state. OOPS. I just saw the broccoli thing which ever it is, it must be a two strike state.

Go get'um Slowp.

Gologit you're already siwashed might as well toss up the rest of them photos. Once the hole is dugout, you've jumped in and had it filled back in, whats one or two more shovels full? 

I'd rep ya both but it won't let me. 



Owl


----------



## forestryworks

Lots of rot in this thing from the ground up to about head high. Put some boards in it. Still rot where the cut was. Didn't feel confident enough to go any higher.

Hard to see in the picture but there is a cat face on the uphill side of the tree, (springboard side).

This tree sat on a slope between a set of powerlines and the end of a road where a multi-use trail starts. Had a ditch I could drop it into.


----------



## 056 kid

Fun! You back cut first? Good job!


----------



## Rounder

Goin' old school on the boards, nice pics Jameson

More beetle kill removal for me, seems like the story of my life.

-Little bit different crummy this morning
-Big Boss cutting little pecker poles
-Slick gravity feed water tower
-You can see the pitch tubes, hammered by the little bastards
-Looking over to where we worked, the larch are nice this time of year

Have a good weekend - Sam


----------



## forestryworks

mtsamloggit said:


> Goin' old school on the boards, nice pics Jameson
> 
> More beetle kill removal for me, seems like the story of my life.
> 
> -Little bit different crummy this morning
> -Big Boss cutting little pecker poles
> -Slick gravity feed water tower
> -You can see the pitch tubes, hammered by the little bastards
> -Looking over to where we worked, the larch are nice this time of year
> 
> Have a good weekend - Sam



That sure is pretty country up there. Hope they continue to put that beetle kill to use.

Thanks for sharing!


----------



## madhatte

Ah, Larch in the fall. I was in the Blues last week and it was GORGEOUS up there!


----------



## 056 kid

Yea, the larch is a pretty tree. You notice how they tower over the rest of the forest?


----------



## slowp

The larch is about peaked out now over where I go once or twice a week. Left here in a rain, got over the top of the pass, and into the dust. 

I used to collect and pack the pitch tubes. They make excellent emergency fire starter. 

Are you doing a fuels reduction/salvage around those cabins?


----------



## Rounder

slowp said:


> The larch is about peaked out now over where I go once or twice a week. Left here in a rain, got over the top of the pass, and into the dust.
> 
> I used to collect and pack the pitch tubes. They make excellent emergency fire starter.
> 
> Are you doing a fuels reduction/salvage around those cabins?



Fuels reduction, yes, salvage, no. The only access to these cabins is by boat or crossing the ice in winter. Kind of a shame. Either way, the market for beetle kill is in the toilet, way too much of it right now ($125-$225 a thousand bf right now, depending on blue stain and check- if you can even find a mill that'll take it) 

Anyways, the larch are great, just had the 3 year wedding anniversary this week- we got married on the bank of the Blackfoot River so we could have the larch in full color as a backdrop - Sam


----------



## Metals406

mtsamloggit said:


> Fuels reduction, yes, salvage, no. The only access to these cabins is by boat or crossing the ice in winter. Kind of a shame. Either way, the market for beetle kill is in the toilet, way too much of it right now ($125-$225 a thousand bf right now, depending on blue stain and check- if you can even find a mill that'll take it)
> 
> Anyways, the larch are great, just had the 3 year wedding anniversary this week- we got married on the bank of the Blackfoot River so we could have the larch in full color as a backdrop - Sam



Well Happy Anniversary Sam!! Ya should'a been dropping that Larch in this pic. . . She's a pumpkin.


----------



## Rounder

Thanks Nate. Got one by the boss's cabin that needs to go that makes the one you're lookin' at seem small....there will be pics of that. PM me your #, I don't know what I did with it, but I may be sending my 394 your way soon......F-ing Ebay.......... - Sam


----------



## Metals406

mtsamloggit said:


> Thanks Nate. Got one by the boss's cabin that needs to go that makes the one you're lookin' at seem small....there will be pics of that. PM me your #, I don't know what I did with it, but I may be sending my 394 your way soon......F-ing Ebay.......... - Sam



Well, if that Larch of yours is a Mega-Larch, pics are kinda insufficient. . . A tree like that calls for video. 

I take it you didn't get them parts then? You can fill me in on the phone.

I'll PM ya my #.


----------



## Rounder

Metals406 said:


> Well, if that Larch of yours is a Mega-Larch, pics are kinda insufficient. . . A tree like that calls for video.
> 
> I take it you didn't get them parts then? You can fill me in on the phone.
> 
> I'll PM ya my #.



Sounds like a plan, I'll skip the Ebay rant here, lol - Sam


----------



## Rounder

forestryworks said:


> Lots of rot in this thing from the ground up to about head high. Put some boards in it. Still rot where the cut was. Didn't feel confident enough to go any higher.
> 
> This tree sat on a slope between a set of powerlines and the end of a road where a multi-use trail starts. Had a ditch I could drop it into.
> 
> What kinda pine ya got there? Hard to tell with my blind eyes, but I know that you have some different variations in your neck of the woods. Once again, great pics/job - Sam
> 
> -PS- nice looking saw ya got there -


----------



## forestryworks

mtsamloggit said:


> What kinda pine ya got there? Hard to tell with my blind eyes, but I know that you have some different variations in your neck of the woods. Once again, great pics/job - Sam
> 
> -PS- nice looking saw ya got there -



Shortleaf Pine - _Pinus echinata_. One of the Big 4 of the Southern pines.


----------



## RandyMac

Could you please educate this coastlander on what a Larch is?


----------



## Metals406

RandyMac said:


> Could you please educate this coastlander on what a Larch is?



Western Larch in these parts Randy. . . Looses it's needles like a deciduous tree in the fall. . . To the untrained eye they would look dead once the needles are gone.

Similar to Tamarack, but different. . . Although, they are referred by that name up here as well. One of the best firewood trees we get -- that and DF.

*Summer*






*Fall*







As you can see, they can get rather large:











Those pictures are up near Seely Lake. . . Sam was logging near there (Swan area). . . And it's about an hour and a half drive from me.


----------



## forestryworks

WL is interesting in that the foliage is borne on spur shoots.


----------



## Metals406

It's common for them to have a top like this one below, especially the nice old pumpkin Larch.






Larch is used along side DF for structural studs and other dimensional lumber. It's tough wood, and can handle a load.

The big dead larch usually will become limbless, and appear as a great monolith. If the bark is gone, it's referred to as "buckskin Larch", and is a prized firewood find. 

Larch usually has very little taper, and is commonly very straight from butt to top.


----------



## madhatte

forestryworks said:


> WL is interesting in that the foliage is borne on spur shoots.



Called "fascicles" just like pines. A Larch is about halfway between a True Fir and a True Cedar, morphologically.


----------



## RandyMac

Thank you Nate, great pics and description. A very neat tree, looks like a pine, has wood like a DF. I am very familar with "spike tops" probably one third of OG Redwoods have them. I used to collect them and give them to folks who made things with them.

Jameson, YeeeHawww!!! again.

Morphologically speaking Nathan.


----------



## bitzer

Awesome pics Jameson! Just wondering, why did you back cut first?


Thats some beautiful country Sam! Nice pics!


----------



## slowp

Our safety gurus do not allow or did not allow larches to be climbed using spurs. You had to use a ladder. Our crew was climbing (even me) with spurs just to find out bark thicknesses. That lasted a week. Then we were told to cease and desist. I guess the bark is too loose and you are liable to lose traction. Plus we weren't properly trained by a smoke jumper, etc. etc. 

I will have to take a picture. Yesterday on the east side, I missed a turn and ended up by a seed orchard. The trees are descended from trees I picked out in the 1970s. It made me feel old. 

Back to larches. Newcomers to larch country often cut green "snags" for firewood and then can't figure out why the wood weighs so much. We called it the tree that dies every winter.


----------



## RandyMac

backcut first. To wedge and jack a leaner, cut, hammer/pump, cut some more, pound/pump, cut some more, exertion. You get to the point where you know that you have the lift you need and can put in a proper face cut. Works well with very tall trees and very large ones. 

Jameson's adaptation was interesting and well done and he will have a back-up job making furniture.


----------



## Ramblewood

RandyMac said:


> backcut first. To wedge and jack a leaner, cut, hammer/pump, cut some more, pound/pump, cut some more, exertion. You get to the point where you know that you have the lift you need and can put in a proper face cut. Works well with very tall trees and very large ones.
> 
> Jameson's adaptation was interesting and well done and he will have a back-up job making furniture.



Mr. Mac -
Will this method cause any binding when making the face cut ?


----------



## slowp

RandyMac said:


> backcut first. To wedge and jack a leaner, cut, hammer/pump, cut some more, pound/pump, cut some more, exertion. You get to the point where you know that you have the lift you need and can put in a proper face cut. Works well with very tall trees and very large ones.
> 
> Jameson's adaptation was interesting and well done and he will have a back-up job making furniture.




I was told that backcut first was the way to get maples on the ground. Loggers and fallers all say that our small maples tend to set back on one's saw. I had one do that and had never heard of backcut first at that time.


----------



## Nuzzy

Ramblewood said:


> Mr. Mac -
> Will this method cause any binding when making the face cut ?





Not if you don't wedge it too far before cutting the face. Back cut, wedge to transfer weight but not too far, finish back cut to set backside of hinge, cut face, wedge the rest of the way over.


----------



## forestryworks

bitzercreek1 said:


> Awesome pics Jameson! Just wondering, why did you back cut first?
> 
> 
> Thats some beautiful country Sam! Nice pics!





RandyMac said:


> backcut first. To wedge and jack a leaner, cut, hammer/pump, cut some more, pound/pump, cut some more, exertion. You get to the point where you know that you have the lift you need and can put in a proper face cut. Works well with very tall trees and very large ones.
> 
> Jameson's adaptation was interesting and well done and he will have a back-up job making furniture.



Just like Randy said. The first 45 feet of this tree leaned away from the lay a good bit. The rest of the tree still leaned back, but not too bad.

That tree broke in 4 places when it hit the ground.

Here's some more.


----------



## Metals406

RandyMac said:


> Thank you Nate, great pics and description. A very neat tree, looks like a pine, has wood like a DF. I am very familar with "spike tops" probably one third of OG Redwoods have them. I used to collect them and give them to folks who made things with them.
> 
> Jameson, YeeeHawww!!! again.
> 
> Morphologically speaking Nathan.



It's a wierd wood Randy. . . Nothing like cutting DF. When cross cutting, it doesn't really chip out like a fir. . . It's a mix of chips and 'splinters' for lack of a better term. Even with a good sharp square chain. . . Speaking of dead wood that is.

I really like the smell of Larch when it's cut. . . DF smells very piney -- well -- since it's a pine.



slowp said:


> Our safety gurus do not allow or did not allow larches to be climbed using spurs. You had to use a ladder. Our crew was climbing (even me) with spurs just to find out bark thicknesses. That lasted a week. Then we were told to cease and desist. I guess the bark is too loose and you are liable to lose traction. Plus we weren't properly trained by a smoke jumper, etc. etc.
> 
> I will have to take a picture. Yesterday on the east side, I missed a turn and ended up by a seed orchard. The trees are descended from trees I picked out in the 1970s. It made me feel old.
> 
> Back to larches. Newcomers to larch country often cut green "snags" for firewood and then can't figure out why the wood weighs so much. We called it the tree that dies every winter.



Absolutely correct. When I would rig in a Larch, you had to make sure your spurs were planted firmly before the next step, or you could kick out.

The bark is very scaled and flaky like a fish or dragon. . . Even when we would walk up them to buck or hook, you could slide off with caulks.

I'm feeling you on the age thing. In the mid 80's, I would hunt clear-cuts with my dad. . . Now they're full of 25-30 foot trees. But trees aren't a renewable resource. :monkey:


----------



## Rounder

Nate, the last larch pic you posted, is that THE big larch in Gerard Grove past the mill a ways?

I'm assuming it is, so Cody, if ya read this, that's the tree I was telling you about - Sam


----------



## Metals406

mtsamloggit said:


> Nate, the last larch pic you posted, is that THE big larch in Gerard Grove past the mill a ways?
> 
> I'm assuming it is, so Cody, if ya read this, that's the tree I was telling you about - Sam



I believe it is Sam. . .


----------



## bitzer

More nice pics Jameson.

Thanks Randy. 

I do backcut some small diameter back-leaners first. Ones that I know will sit and there won't be room for a wedge. I guess I didn't realize it would do much for decent sized wood. Thanks for the explaination.


----------



## Burvol

*Killer!*


----------



## forestryworks

Nice pic Burvol!


----------



## Burvol

4 longs, little sucker was trying to turn bastard growth, not sure on board footage. Teaching my Buddy's little bro to fall timber. He took the pictures. He's got the sparkle in his eye


----------



## Burvol

Gotta go, be back in an hour. Bunch of good ones to put up. 7 days a week right now.


----------



## forestryworks

Burvol said:


> 7 days a week right now.



Killer!


----------



## Burvol

Face cut is not perfectly level, and wood pull, but it's coming out of the stump instead of the log. Touchy touchy, I know LOL


----------



## Burvol

Hard leaner, back it up first, spread the load, split her open 






Drive three, then pick on one, take two, stack em up 






Alright! Looks like a hard leaner is gonna stay out of the RMZ and I don't get a $10,000 dollar fine LOL


----------



## Burvol

Wheelin' in reverse. Hard to tell from angle, but the butt is about 4 feet off the ground, and is hanging out about 15 feet suspended off a small blow down. 
Coming in from bottom first, get to your far side as soon as possible, and keep going like mad. 






Coming up, pulling in and out, back to front, up up up at WOT 






Stop at about 1 inch from top (sap wood basically, the strong strap holding the tension) and the pull out and snip. I'm coming out right now. 

My apprentice didn't get the last pictures I wanted, but I tried Jameson. Will get another for ya.


----------



## Burvol

My custom 7 lbs. Collins. Will melt wedges if your not careful, but she really puts the Kywietus to the leaners. Yep, I started my backcut unlevel through the bark layer and fixed it. Don't saw into a tree that needs extra work before you know your square. "Violating the Sap" as my Dad calls it, anytime you cut into sap wood that is crucial, and is the wrong move for the situation, leaners, wound up timber, ect. 






Tree go bye bye


----------



## Burvol

Never turn your back, another shot of a previous tree. Yes! My stump slice was just what I needed. Hit the chunk, kicked right into lead.


----------



## Burvol

Full comp with a hot rod 660, what do you want? Makes my world turn anyway. Notice my chip flipper is still gone? Lost another one. Threw a chain after I lost it the first time, and cut one of the posts out that you glue it into. Gotta get another clutch cover now too. My old 066 cover is just slightly different.


----------



## Burvol

Just a couple of us came to work this weekend. Skidder is picking off my strip off and on.


----------



## Burvol

Nice wood on the edge of a RMZ. Been cut and logged out infront.


----------



## Burvol

Thanks for letting me share


----------



## Spotted Owl

Share away, these photos are fantastic.



Owl


----------



## ChipMonger

Burvol-

Those Pics are nothing short of Awesome!!! keep em' coming. Looks like your in some nice wood there. What are the chance's of you making a video of wheeling?


----------



## Jacob J.

Spotted Owl said:


> Share away, these photos are fantastic.
> 
> 
> 
> Owl



I agree- awesome photos. Seeing you in action J makes me wanna go saw logs again. Good work!


----------



## mdavlee

That's some nice trees you got there buddy.


----------



## Gologit

Good stuff.


----------



## slowp

Burvol said:


>



Keep your mouth shut if you are cutting on a Tree Of Heaven. Three of us learned that in our recert.

OK, I understand wheeling and have done it. I seem to have also not done it properly and got the saw stuck. Oh well. 

Pay your photographer and keep him there. Good pictures of real life falling and no endless cookies.


----------



## schmuck.k

dam good photos as always burvol keep them comming.


----------



## ChrisF

Really cool pictures Burvol, thanks a lot for sharing!


----------



## forestryworks

I see some trees are marked in red and some ain't. What's the deal?


----------



## Metals406

Them are some nice pumpkin fir in that unit Burv! And it looks like it's easy to move in. . . No scrub brush up to your butt, and not real steep.

Keep them pics coming!!


----------



## Cedarkerf

Hey Jesse there are some classic PNW cutting pics in there great pics.


----------



## Greystoke

mtsamloggit said:


> Nate, the last larch pic you posted, is that THE big larch in Gerard Grove past the mill a ways?
> 
> I'm assuming it is, so Cody, if ya read this, that's the tree I was telling you about - Sam



Sweet! Another big tree on my list to climb


----------



## Greystoke

Jesse.....I wanna play


----------



## GASoline71

Loud and clear Randy! 

Gary


----------



## Burvol

Thanks fellas. I have had some wood alot worse on this unit, and some nicer wood. Don't always get to take pictures. Cody, your package is going out soon. Looks like I might have a few days off. Haven't been able to get home by five this week to mail it. There will be a day we will cut. There is some big tall pine that are beyond increadible leaners LOL (you'd have fun trying to swing them), as well as a few good crumbs in the upper corner left. Not sure if I'm going to cut those pine. I'll get a picture when I go back. 084 would do it


----------



## Rounder

tarzanstree said:


> Jesse.....I wanna play



Me too pard, how's tomorow sound? I'll drive - Sam


----------



## 056 kid

Burvol, AWESOME. . .


----------



## RPM

Burvol .... tree faller p()rn star .


----------



## bitzer

Awesome pics Burvol! Keep em coming. Looks like a hell of a lot of fun. 

Stihl should come up with a better way to keep that delflector in there. I always thought it should need a little more like a bolt on or something.


----------



## Meadow Beaver

Burvol said:


> Wheelin' in reverse. Hard to tell from angle, but the butt is about 4 feet off the ground, and is hanging out about 15 feet suspended off a small blow down.
> Coming in from bottom first, get to your far side as soon as possible, and keep going like mad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coming up, pulling in and out, back to front, up up up at WOT
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stop at about 1 inch from top (sap wood basically, the strong strap holding the tension) and the pull out and snip. I'm coming out right now.
> 
> My apprentice didn't get the last pictures I wanted, but I tried Jameson. Will get another for ya.



What the hell is that sitting on that log?


----------



## Burvol

Meadow Beaver said:


> What the hell is that sitting on that log?



Mystery saw. Half wrap something. Skidder tossed it out to leave at bottom of hill if he needs it


----------



## Burvol

Once a really nice fir stood here


----------



## Burvol

Bottom of the unit. Third skidder stopped and I threw my phone at him for a picture. Hard leaner with a RMZ ( F class) behind it. This was a nice stick. Bucked just shy of 3 bushel out of two logs (31& 28) in 36's, left the other two or one and half for the processor.


----------



## slowp

Where's the mud and rain? Occasional wind too? You work in a flat banana belt!! I need to go find my tin pants and long johns. Bye...


----------



## WidowMaker

Metals406 said:


> Western Larch in these parts Randy. . . Looses it's needles like a deciduous tree in the fall. . . To the untrained eye they would look dead once the needles are gone.
> 
> Similar to Tamarack, but different. . . Although, they are referred by that name up here as well. One of the best firewood trees we get -- that and DF.
> 
> *Summer*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Fall*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see, they can get rather large:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those pictures are up near Seely Lake. . . Sam was logging near there (Swan area). . . And it's about an hour and a half drive from me.



====


How do you tell the differance, I've always thought they were one in the same...cut tons of it for firewood. Anywhere from 1 ft to 5 ft dia. What do you guys mean by punmkin tree???


----------



## RPM

WidowMaker said:


> ====
> 
> 
> What do you guys mean by punmkin tree???



Pumpkin = big azz trees!! Burvol was cuttin in the pumpkin patch!


----------



## Gologit

forestryworks said:


>



You may be the only guy in Texas that knows how to use a springboard. Looks like you're getting the hang of it. Keep after it.

One thing to think about with a springboard (Caution...old guy lecture coming) is how to get _off_ of them quickly and safely. Always leave yourself a good landing spot in case you have to really bail out. Don't ask me how I learned that.


----------



## Gologit

RPM said:


> Pumpkin = big azz trees!! Burvol was cuttin in the pumpkin patch!



Yup. And anywhere south of Yreka it's pronounced "punkin". As in "How come Joe gets all the punkins in his strip and I get stuck with the dog hair?"

If you come down here to work they make you leave all your terminal Gs at the border. You can reclaim them, if you still want to, when you leave.


----------



## bitzer

More badass pics Burvol! What kind of faces are you putting in those jacked ones?


----------



## slowp

They are punkins around here too. We are north of Yreka. Thank goodness.


----------



## joesawer

Hey Jamison I like that last jack seat a whole lot better. It is nice to be able to back it up with wedges.
I was wheeling some logs the other day but had no one to take pics. They popped a tiny bit of holding wood right in the middle an pulled only about an inch of fiber when they could have easily busted wide open.


----------



## forestryworks

Took one of the forestry classmates with me to fall a freshly dead tree, nice and green on the stump. 

She's the holy crapper there at the end 

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Eyezu3jX294?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Eyezu3jX294?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>


----------



## Hddnis

Nice work.

She must like you because she focused on you, and not the saw and the cutting.



Mr. HE


----------



## RandyMac

Good form, you need some bigger trees.

"Holy crap" LMAO!!!!


----------



## joesawer

Nice job...
Havin a camera lady around makes it a lot more fun.


----------



## slowp

More pictures and videos please. I will be working around icky old mechanized sides for a while so won't get to see any real falling. Well, maybe when the steep ground comes around...but that'll be a while.


----------



## Burvol

bitzercreek1 said:


> More badass pics Burvol! What kind of faces are you putting in those jacked ones?



Just the ol' stand by. A few snipes here and there, and one block out on a big one I threw uphill.


----------



## mdavlee

Hey burv you get to make the elk hunt?


----------



## ThePruner

Hahahaha she's totally into you and not the tree.lol


----------



## joesawer

ThePruner said:


> Hahahaha she's totally into you and not the tree.lol




Well duh! lol I bet it was not her idea!


----------



## FSburt

Hey Burvol how much backlean are you fightin with that jack and wedges. Its a nice shot of a corner seat for your jack and using wedges as backup. Looks like a nice brash DF.


----------



## GASoline71

You guys need to take a GOL class... not enough bore/plunge cuts. Obviously they are safer...  

Awesome pics and vids! 

Gary


----------



## DangerTree

forestryworks said:


> Took one of the forestry classmates with me to fall a freshly dead tree, nice and green on the stump.
> 
> She's the holy crapper there at the end
> 
> <object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Eyezu3jX294?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Eyezu3jX294?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>



If you didn't leave your saw behind you could have had another started fore that one hit the ground!


----------



## forestryworks

DangerTree said:


> If you didn't leave your saw behind you could have had another started fore that one hit the ground!



If only the job were like that.


----------



## forestryworks

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/9mbs5Mnl5cE?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/9mbs5Mnl5cE?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>


----------



## 056 kid

I like the way you work Jameson, we need to get you in some real timber though. . .


----------



## hammerlogging

Yea bud, best movie work yet too.


----------



## Slamm

Just an observation:

What is it with, or why do some cutters set their saws down next to a falling tree/ the stump?

I personally take my saw to a hopefully safer area. ..... like with me.

Just wondering,

Sam


----------



## 056 kid

Because the trees go where they are supposed to.


----------



## forestryworks

056 kid said:


> I like the way you work Jameson, we need to get you in some real timber though. . .





hammerlogging said:


> Yea bud, best movie work yet too.



Thanks fellas.


----------



## Gologit

056 kid said:


> I like the way you work Jameson, we need to get you in some real timber though. . .



Yup...the way he's going there aren't going to be any trees left in Texas.  We'll have to get him out here and put him to work.


----------



## RandyMac

Jameson needs to set loose in dog hair regrowth Redwood.


----------



## slowp

Slamm said:


> Just an observation:
> 
> What is it with, or why do some cutters set their saws down next to a falling tree/ the stump?
> 
> I personally take my saw to a hopefully safer area. ..... like with me.
> 
> Just wondering,
> 
> Sam



I was told that Weyco will can a faller who doesn't set their saw down. Since a lot of the fallers around here work for different landowners, they like to stay in practice. *Production* cutting out here is a different world.

Jameson needs to fall some of our high site really tall second growth trees. I love to see those come down. They seem to take a while because of their height. Swooooooooooooosh, crash. Fast forward to about a minute on this bad video. Wish I'd had my better camera then

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/BNMI7WtrxG0?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/BNMI7WtrxG0?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>


----------



## Slamm

056 kid said:


> Because the trees go where they are supposed to.



This is not directed toward anyone else but you. If that is the case and the trees always go where they are suppose to, then why not just stand there holding your F'ing saw??????????????? 

You are a complete idiot,

Sam


----------



## forestryworks

Slamm said:


> Just an observation:
> 
> What is it with, or why do some cutters set their saws down next to a falling tree/ the stump?
> 
> I personally take my saw to a hopefully safer area. ..... like with me.
> 
> Just wondering,
> 
> Sam



In that video I set my saw down behind a smaller tree and behind a good sized rock (hidden by the stump).

With that said, whether I set my saw in a safe spot, behind the stump, or take it with me is mostly gut feeling.

Saws are replaceable.


----------



## RandyMac

I took a step or two, set the saw down in case I really needed to run. I do remember leaving a heavy saw on the stump, in the backcut. I had cut myself into a corner, there wasn't time or the room to pull the whole thing out. I made sure it wasn't going with the hingewood and walked away, it sat and idled through the whole thing.


----------



## Slamm

I figured it was for safety, but after watching this and several other videos of seemingly simple falling cuts and honest trees on flat ground, just going over, it seems that many/several west coast cutters were dropping their saws like they were suddenly hot potatoes, LOL. While I understand that the saw is replaceable, I take mine with me, crap happens and usually right around the stump area. Just wondering, as I have never seen someone purposely leave the saws behind like I have/do in some of these videos.

Thanks, later,

Sam


----------



## Thorcw

slowp said:


> I was told that Weyco will can a faller who doesn't set their saw down. Since a lot of the fallers around here work for different landowners, they like to stay in practice. *Production* cutting out here is a different world.



I know im not a from the area but why is this ?


----------



## Gologit

forestryworks said:


> With that said, whether I set my saw in a safe spot, behind the stump, or take it with me is mostly gut feeling.
> 
> *Saws are replaceable.*



Exactly. I'll usually keep my saw with me but there's been a few times when I've just dumped it. I run faster that way.


----------



## Gologit

Thorcw said:


> I know im not a from the area but why is this ?



Terrain, timber, and the expectation that you'll get a sufficient amount of wood on the ground to earn your keep. All of these are variables. Sometimes they vary from minute to minute. But they always vary.

The main thing is going home every day...under your own power. If you have to occasionally dump a saw to do that it's a fair enough trade.

A saw is just a hunk of machinery. They make more of them every day.


----------



## PB

Please educate this non-forester/logger, why are you cutting snags? Why would someone pay you to cut trees that aren't worth much? Reduce insect pressure, fire prevention, safety, or is there some market for wood like that?

Up here in New England there is a completely different approach to logging than out west or even a few states down.


----------



## 056 kid

Slamm said:


> This is not directed toward anyone else but you. If that is the case and the trees always go where they are suppose to, then why not just stand there holding your F'ing saw???????????????
> 
> You are a complete idiot,
> 
> Sam



 Im shattered that you think that 

but to answer your smart assery, because a broke off limb doesn't care where the tree falls, its going down, the tree isn't the only danger so getting out quick is always good. You know that. .
I keep my saw with me so I'm not too concerned..


----------



## Thorcw

Gologit said:


> Terrain, timber, and the expectation that you'll get a sufficient amount of wood on the ground to earn your keep. All of these are variables. Sometimes they vary from minute to minute. But they always vary.
> 
> The main thing is going home every day...under your own power. If you have to occasionally dump a saw to do that it's a fair enough trade.
> 
> A saw is just a hunk of machinery. They make more of them every day.



So Weyco will fire you if you walk away from the tree with the saw?


----------



## Gologit

I don't know. I've never worked for Weyco. They don't own any ground in the part of the country I usually cover. Slowp or one of the others from that area might have a better answer.

It's hard to believe, though, that they'd make and enforce such a hard and fast rule. If you trust a guy enough to have him out falling timber it seems to me you'd trust him enough to know when to leave or carry a saw.


----------



## Slamm

Gologit said:


> I don't know. I've never worked for Weyco. They don't own any ground in the part of the country I usually cover. Slowp or one of the others from that area might have a better answer.
> 
> It's hard to believe, though, that they'd make and enforce such a hard and fast rule. If you trust a guy enough to have him out falling timber it seems to me you'd trust him enough to know when to leave or carry a saw.



I agree with your last paragraph.

Man I don't think I could consciously leave a saw behind, at least not one that I paid for, LOL.

I mean, the trees you guys cut out west are like huge telephone poles, and I would see guys cutting these huge trees down, that take about 5 minutes from the time they release to the time they hit the ground and the cutter just drops the running saw and runs like a scalded dog or checking 40 yard dash times. On those types of trees I would just get back with my saw in hand, as the trees aren't like the huge canopy stuff we have around here that the tops are all intertwined and it literally rains branches for awhile afterwards, not that you guys don't have your moment too. I guess, its just different .... which doesn't have to make it right or wrong, just different.

Later,

Sam


----------



## stihl sawing

forestryworks said:


> <object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/9mbs5Mnl5cE?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/9mbs5Mnl5cE?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>


Totally awesome video, Thanks for posting.


----------



## forestryworks

PB said:


> Please educate this non-forester/logger, why are you cutting snags? Why would someone pay you to cut trees that aren't worth much? Reduce insect pressure, fire prevention, safety, or is there some market for wood like that?
> 
> Up here in New England there is a completely different approach to logging than out west or even a few states down.



Hazard tree removal in a state park.


----------



## PB

forestryworks said:


> Hazard tree removal in a state park.



Makes sense, thanks.


----------



## stihl sawing

forestryworks said:


> Hazard tree removal in a state park.


They do that here in parks, A good thing where there are people all the time. Those old rotten trees could fall on anything, Cars, Campers, People ect.....The beetles have killed a lot of pines around here. They mark them with red paint and cut them later when no one is in that area.


----------



## forestryworks

stihl sawing said:


> They do that here in parks, A good thing where there are people all the time. Those old rotten trees could fall on anything, Cars, Campers, People ect.....The beetles have killed a lot of pines around here. They mark them with red paint and cut them later when no one is in that area.



I haven't seen any beetle kill in this area. Most of the snags I'm cutting are left over from the bad ice storms of 2000 and 2007 or they died of some other cause.

The beetle kill stuff must be further south, and then across the line, further east into your state.

Maybe I could find work there for the winter break.


----------



## slowp

I can't confirm the Weyco thing, but one guy said he wouldn't cut on their land anymore because of it. They are a huge huge conglomeration and have rules upon rules. From what I understand, it is their way or the highway. 
No debating. They can find plenty of people to work for them. 

Slamm, those big old telephone poles will sometimes hit an alder or other springy thing on the way down, then things can get a bit more complicated.
Sometimes the top will break out, or some limbs come down. What I showed was flat ground, which is rare. Add some steep ground and it gets a bit more complicated. 

In our thinnings, the lay of the wood is so important. If a faller doesn't do that right, the leave trees will get all banged up. Cable logging--Skyline, only works in straight lines.


----------



## stihl sawing

forestryworks said:


> I haven't seen any beetle kill in this area. Most of the snags I'm cutting are left over from the bad ice storms of 2000 and 2007 or they died of some other cause.
> 
> The beetle kill stuff must be further south, and then across the line, further east into your state.
> 
> Maybe I could find work there for the winter break.


They have a lot of trees marked in the parks around here, Most of the trees died last year. I figured it was beetles, I really don't know what killed them. Some of them are huge pines. You have a really neat job. Bet you enjoy going to work everyday.


----------



## Metals406

stihl sawing said:


> They have a lot of trees marked in the parks around here, Most of the trees died last year. I figured it was beetles, I really don't know what killed them. Some of them are huge pines. You have a really neat job. Bet you enjoy going to work everyday.



That's the coolest part, he ain't getting paid. He volunteers to cut the trees for the park. . . They pick up some of his expenses.


----------



## forestryworks

Metals406 said:


> he ain't getting paid



Some nights I eat beans and drink creek water


----------



## Greystoke

*Should my saw stay with me or the tree?*

Since most of my Timber Falling experience is on the west coast, working rugged helicopter and Yarder ground, I would leave my saw behind a lot, as it is really hard to take a large powerhead with a long bar with you when you are trying to clear from a tree that you have to fall straight up a steep hill to save it out, and can do some weird things when it hits the ground. I usually would tuck it directly behind the stump of the tree being fell in situations like this, then it was get away trying to clear over bluffs and blowdown without tweeking a knee or something....much harder to do when carrying your saw. However, if I was falling timber on ground that was not broken up, with not much blowdown or other obstacles, and maybe flatter, I would be more likely to keep it with me.

I was going to post some falling pics and videos of a tree job that I just did, but I am too lazy so I will just put up this link. Check it out...some old growth being jacked, lol  :

http://www.facebook.com/tarzanstreeservice


----------



## DangerTree

*Anti- kick step*



forestryworks said:


> <object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/9mbs5Mnl5cE?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/9mbs5Mnl5cE?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>



Up here in Canada the Compensation board does periodic stump checks to see if fellers are using safe falling practices. You would have failed on all but one of those trees due too a lack of anti-kick step. And yet all of them fell where they were supposed to. Go figure I believe that some regs are just unnecessary. Not meant as an attack on you just an observation keep up the good work.


----------



## forestryworks

DangerTree said:


> Up here in Canada the Compensation board does periodic stump checks to see if fellers are using safe falling practices. You would have failed on all but one of those trees due too a lack of anti-kick step. And yet all of them fell where they were supposed to. Go figure I believe that some regs are just unnecessary. Not meant as an attack on you just an observation keep up the good work.



Thanks for the good word, I still got a lot of learning to do lol.

Did you ever see a documentary called "Death in the Forest"? It deals with fallers in BC and talks about what you just said.


----------



## Greystoke

That is why I would not make it in Canada. I hated it bad enough when the osha guys would show up on jobs here and snub their noses at my perfect stumps with nothing to cut off the butt of the tree that I fell but a few whiskers and not a stupid 2 inch step of wood...it has it's place in my toolbag, but rarely gets used.


----------



## ThePruner

Seems like those Osha guys are more concerned about you giving a hard time than "caring about your safety"


----------



## Slamm

slowp said:


> Slamm, those big old telephone poles will sometimes hit an alder or other springy thing on the way down, then things can get a bit more complicated.
> Sometimes the top will break out, or some limbs come down. What I showed was flat ground, which is rare. Add some steep ground and it gets a bit more complicated.



I completely understand that things are dangerous on both sides and in the middle. I was just wondering about some of the video on youtube where it is perfectly flat and the tree is some monster telephone pole that takes about 1 minute to fall over and the guy has plenty of time to safely take his saw and his body to hide behind another tree and they just drop it like it is on fire, chain spinning and everything, LOL. No big deal, was just wondering. I actually will put it in my mind to use this technique, as I'm sure there have been times it would have been smarter to drop and run and I didn't and things got close, but man it sucks smashing saws too, LOL.

That Osha stuff doesn't sound like any fun either. I'm sure we would not pass several points of interest with OSHA. One of them being "stepped stumps", I absolutely hate looking at those things from old jobs or neighboring jobs, it just doesn't look very professional, like you can't line up your cuts or something, LOL.

Later,

Sam

Later,

Sam


----------



## RandyMac

Tall timber will throw debris a good long ways, sometimes ditching the saw and running is the only option. Clumpy hardwoods don't have the reach that tall conifers have.

BTW slamm, this isn't the chainsaw forum, we don't call regular posters ####ing idiots here.


----------



## Gologit

RandyMac said:


> ... this isn't the chainsaw forum, we don't call regular posters ####ing idiots here.



But what if they _are_ ####ing idiots? What do we do then?


----------



## RandyMac

Gologit said:


> But what if they _are_ ####ing idiots? What do we do then?



Provide information, instruction, if that isn't enough, a hard pop to the back of the head.


----------



## 056 kid

Too bad the computer dosent have a button that can reach out and smack. hahaha.


----------



## PB

056 kid said:


> Too bad the computer dosent have a button that can reach out and smack. hahaha.



It is probably better for you that it doesn't.


----------



## Slamm

PB said:


> It is probably better for you that it doesn't.



I couldn't write that fast enough, LOL.

Sam


----------



## RandyMac

LMAO!!!!

I wonder why I was thinking of Ted?


----------



## 056 kid

Im completely immune to smacks, its gotta be harder to get through.


----------



## RandyMac

I'll call you cousin Ted and administer something that will get through, something you will remember.


----------



## 056 kid

Whatever you say cousin, im going to get some tacos and more beer. . .


----------



## RandyMac

056 kid said:


> Whatever you say cousin, im going to get some tacos and more beer. . .



remember when you get back, sit in the corner, away from the stove.


----------



## slowp

I like the heft of a classic Biltmore stick. Thwap!


----------



## Rounder

BTW slamm, this isn't the chainsaw forum, we don't call regular posters ####ing idiots here.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, lets keep it civil, this is about the only thread I care to look at on the site, but lately the silly #### has gotten a bit old.

Great pics/vids Jameson, Cody, Cedar Kerf (cotton wood thread), and also the recollections in your thread Randy. 

Have a good week - Sam


----------



## RandyMac

nothing beats a good piece of hickory.


----------



## stihl sawing

RandyMac said:


> nothing beats a good piece of hickory.


And a Tire Iron.


----------



## 056 kid

My tacos where so good I tipped my beer over reaching for a napkin, had to get a new one. 

.98 cents of beer into the plywood. . .


Im going fishing tomorrow, wish me luck. . .


----------



## tlandrum

.98 cents of beer into the plywood. . .


thats alchohol abuse,and its hard to cut timber with a fishin rod in hand


----------



## 056 kid

Alcohol owes my family, so its OK. . .


----------



## hammerlogging

Ya got to consider one more thing, the type of cut. Lots of harwood falling is selective thinnings (dare I mention high grades). Lots of OG falling and west coast falling, as more of our east coast should be, and fortunately a fair bit of mine is, is clearcuts. You have very little chance of the butt coming back on you in a clearcut. Clearcutting, although it includes cutting a bunch of BS, has many safety advantages, not to mention silvicultural advantages. It also really amps your tons/acre!

Most of the time I have 1 1/2 strides tuck the saw somewhere it won't slide or roll down the hill and get myself the rest of the way out of the way.


----------



## tlandrum

hammerlogging said:


> Ya got to consider one more thing, the type of cut. Lots of harwood falling is selective thinnings (dare I mention high grades). Lots of OG falling and west coast falling, as more of our east coast should be, and fortunately a fair bit of mine is, is clearcuts. You have very little chance of the butt coming back on you in a clearcut. Clearcutting, although it includes cutting a bunch of BS, has many safety advantages, not to mention silvicultural advantages. It also really amps your tons/acre!
> 
> Most of the time I have 1 1/2 strides tuck the saw somewhere it won't slide or roll down the hill and get myself the rest of the way out of the way.



slamm dont do the clearcut or weigh wood thing ,he is mostly a vaneer logger according to his thread.


----------



## forestryworks

Worked in a semi-blowdown patch. All roadside stuff. 

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/zbNcfo0sRjg?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/zbNcfo0sRjg?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>


----------



## DangerTree

forestryworks said:


> Thanks for the good word, I still got a lot of learning to do lol.
> 
> Did you ever see a documentary called "Death in the Forest"? It deals with fallers in BC and talks about what you just said.



I don't know if my groundie here used proper technique but she gotem' down.


----------



## DangerTree




----------



## ChrisF

forestryworks said:


> Worked in a semi-blowdown patch. All roadside stuff.



Thanks for sharing, man.


----------



## DangerTree

This tree had a 12' butt


----------



## Thorcw

Forestryworks I feel bad for ya on that last one there full of compost


----------



## forestryworks

Thorcw said:


> Forestryworks I feel bad for ya on that last one there full of compost



Yeah that oak took a dump for sure.


----------



## forestryworks

hammerlogging said:


> Ya got to consider one more thing, the type of cut. Lots of harwood falling is selective thinnings (dare I mention high grades). Lots of OG falling and west coast falling, as more of our east coast should be, and fortunately a fair bit of mine is, is clearcuts. You have very little chance of the butt coming back on you in a clearcut. Clearcutting, although it includes cutting a bunch of BS, has many safety advantages, not to mention silvicultural advantages. It also really amps your tons/acre!
> 
> Most of the time I have 1 1/2 strides tuck the saw somewhere it won't slide or roll down the hill and get myself the rest of the way out of the way.



Good post.


----------



## bitzer

Hey nice vids Jameson! Looks like you're still havin fun down there. Lots of leaves on the trees down there yet too I see. 

Nice vid Cody! That thing sure took some pumpin. Great bang when it hit though!



Does anyone grab their wedges as the tree commits to save diggin for them or losing them down the hill (as long as there is no wind or other obstacle pushing back)?


----------



## Greystoke

Finally took the time to figure out how to get my video up. Here she is...glorious day! 

<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/jDhLp1BtiGw?version=3"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/jDhLp1BtiGw?version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></object>


----------



## RandyMac

Good stuff Cody.

If you haven't done it or seen it done, the amount of sawing involved is almost unbelievable, then you buck.


----------



## forestryworks

tarzanstree said:


> Finally took the time to figure out how to get my video up. Here she is...glorious day!



How many tanks did ya go through on that 088 to get her down?


----------



## Greystoke

RandyMac said:


> Good stuff Cody.
> 
> If you haven't done it or seen it done, the amount of sawing involved is almost unbelievable, then you buck.



Yessir...a lot of sawing involved in this one. Took me the rest of the day to buck it. I am glad that I was not the one that had to rip it. I guess the first two 20' butt logs had to be quartered so the chinook could fly them, then the third and fourth logs had to be ripped. I had done some ripping prior, and it was boring!


----------



## Greystoke

forestryworks said:


> How many tanks did ya go through on that 088 to get her down?



Probably 2?


----------



## ThePruner

What's ripping? Sorry..


----------



## Greystoke

Stay tuned...I have another one uploading...I made a deal with him, that if I let him use my chainsaw, he would let me have one of his trees. Last vid was mine...one uploading is his...a lot better video.


----------



## Greystoke

ThePruner said:


> What's ripping? Sorry..



bucking the logs lengthwise...with the grain, to make them lighter so the helicopter could fly them.


----------



## Greystoke

Here is the next one...

<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/HdgMcbNwZ3o?version=3"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/HdgMcbNwZ3o?version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></object>


----------



## RandyMac

All that work and it goes plop, just like it is suppose to.

Cody, did you have much time with a long bar?


----------



## Greystoke

Not nearly as much as I wanted with anything over 42"  I fell a lot of timber with a 36" or 42" bar on my 088 that would have been nicer to have a 50 or 60, but I was single jackin and rarely carried a smaller limbing and bucking saw. The 60 inch bar in those vids was a company bar, along with the jacks. Longest bar I ever used was a 72" Custom made bar with a huge belly. I used it once to fall a big fir that I did not feel like springboarding, and I was close enough to the pickup, so I mounted it up instead. I also used it to do some ripping. Like I said...they need to hurry and find another planet with huge trees to clear so I can get some more long bar time like all you lucky old boys!


----------



## RandyMac

Time for a tour of the tropics.


----------



## Greystoke

Sounds good pard....I wanna toze a few of those trees over in africa that those guys were cuttin down illegally!


----------



## Rounder

Nice vids Cody, watching that kinda makes me want to slit my wrists, knowing the #### hole I get to play in tomorrow, lol. Gonna need more Scotch after this week - Sam


----------



## Greystoke

mtsamloggit said:


> Nice vids Cody, watching that kinda makes me want to slit my wrists, knowing the #### hole I get to play in tomorrow, lol. Gonna need more Scotch after this week - Sam



Thanks for sharin the other night pard


----------



## Curlycherry1

Keeeripes! I could build an entire kitchen full of cabinets out of the wood that was used to fit the jacks and get those monsters to go over.


----------



## RandyMac

Blocking out an undercut is real work, a good chance at getting injured too.


----------



## bitzer

Awesome movies Cody! 

All I could think about was how in the hell did they do em before power saws. I mean I know how, but jesus that must have been some work.

Thanks for sharing! Great stuff man!


----------



## RandyMac

Time for a shot Bob.

Yellow, grey and white.


----------



## Rounder

tarzanstree said:


> Thanks for sharin the other night pard



Of course, any time


----------



## bitzer

RandyMac said:


> Time for a shot Bob.
> 
> Yellow, grey and white.



Does it count if its from the White Rabbit bottle shop? 90 proof.
Just took a pull for ya Randy. I know you and the others are out there. Just tuff to find them these days. Or are ya talking fishin now?


----------



## RandyMac

bitzercreek1 said:


> Does it count if its from the White Rabbit bottle shop? 90 proof.
> Just took a pull for ya Randy. I know you and the others are out there. Just tuff to find them these days. Or are ya talking fishin now?



Fishin'

White rabbits are good

my bottle has a Black label.


----------



## bitzer

RandyMac said:


> Fishin'
> 
> White rabbits are good
> 
> my bottle has a Black label.



Theres several of those black labels around here. Most of them good. Depends on the mood. Usually run toward the sour or dry myself. Let me know where.


----------



## RandyMac

41.78°N 124.22°W (Elev. 16 ft)


----------



## Greystoke

I'd have a shot if I had some. Usually white label for me...100 proof...Ohhh Yayeah!


----------



## Spotted Owl

DangerTree said:


> Up here in Canada the Compensation board does periodic stump checks to see if fellers are using safe falling practices. You would have failed on all but one of those trees due too a lack of anti-kick step. And yet all of them fell where they were supposed to. Go figure I believe that some regs are just unnecessary. Not meant as an attack on you just an observation keep up the good work.



What the hell is an anti kick back step?

Weyco does make hard fast rules, either you follow or get to tramp'in. However some rules don't last long. For a while here they had a rule of nothing but stock only saws. Many of the cutters quit. It can be hard to keep up, using only a portion of the tool in your hand. That got cleared up real fast. The crew may not throw ya under the bus but the company has been and is know in some areas to watch from a distance(long damn ways with glass) to see what is happening.

Anyone remember Sea Forest down on the Oregon coast. Those guys were specialized in big wood.



Owl


----------



## 056 kid

That face you used is very dangerous Cody, you should be using an open face notch @ 1/10 of the tree. plunge out the heart wood, and leave a back strap. Make sure you pound several wedges before you trip hte strap.

:hmm3grin2orange:


I never have a need for this little guy, but you deserve it Cody..


----------



## Metals406

Great videos Cody!!! Them trees look like a lot of work from start to finish. . . I reckon most folks wouldn't appreciate it all when they buy some RW from Home Depot.


----------



## coastalfaller

Great videos, Cody, you getting the itch to get back at it yet?!


----------



## RandyMac

Yep, it's Fall.


----------



## Greystoke

@ 056kid...You funny! Thanks pard!

@Nate...Thanks man, I am sure you are right, but at least I got some glory!

@Coastalfaller...Thanks man. I always have an itch to get back, and I guarantee if I could cut trees like the ones in those vids...I would do it till death!

@Randy...why would you do that to me right before bedtime! Now I am going to have nightmares about poison oak tonight.

I was but just a grasshopper in those vids, and I lucked out and got a big tree to cut...I had the privilege of working with some of the best big wood fallers ever. The guy in the second vid in the orange jacket was my bullbuck and one of the best Fallers I ever knew, and whenever there was big wood to be had for Columbia (which is no slouch of a loggin outfit), he was right there, which is why I was so privileged to be a part of his crew and grow up around guys like that...those are the guys that deserve respect.


----------



## Gologit

tarzanstree said:


> I always have an itch to get back, and I guarantee if I could cut trees like the ones in those vids...I would do it till death!



That "itch" never goes away either. It seems to hit the hardest in the early Spring...kinda like a damn allergy that never completely gets cured. 

Good job on the tree, it gentled in real nice.. Most people don't realize how much just plain hard work goes into falling the big stuff.


----------



## stihl sawing

tarzanstree said:


> Finally took the time to figure out how to get my video up. Here she is...glorious day!
> 
> <object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/jDhLp1BtiGw?version=3"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/jDhLp1BtiGw?version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></object>


Now that is a tree, Hard to imagine having a bar big enough to cut that monster. You guys rock and thanks for the video.


----------



## Greystoke

@ Bob...I will never be cured! Always have a hankerin to pack my gear and head West, especially in the spring...or when I talk to one of my buddies that are in a pickle patch, or when I watch these vids, or when I go out to my saw shop and see some long bars hangin on the wall, and smell the awesome saw shop smell, or....Yep, it's always there.

@ SS...Thanks man!


Thanks to everyone for watching AND for your nice comments. I was reluctant to put those vids up as I don't want people thinking that I was putting them on here to brag...just wanted to share a glorious time


----------



## stihl sawing

tarzanstree said:


> @ Bob...I will never be cured! Always have a hankerin to pack my gear and head West, especially in the spring...or when I talk to one of my buddies that are in a pickle patch, or when I watch these vids, or when I go out to my saw shop and see some long bars hangin on the wall, and smell the awesome saw shop smell, or....Yep, it's always there.
> 
> @ SS...Thanks man!
> 
> 
> Thanks to everyone for watching AND for your nice comments. *I was reluctant to put those vids up as I don't want people thinking that I was putting them on here to brag.*..just wanted to share a glorious time


Well if that's what it's called... Keep on braggin. I'd be braggin too if i had the experience to cut a monster like that. Keep on with the videos, We love em.


----------



## mdavlee

As much work as those big trees are to get them to hit the ground you shouldn't worry about bragging about them. Those were some good videos and if you have more we would love to see them.:biggrinbounce2:


----------



## 056 kid

Il help you find Planet De Redwood Cody.


----------



## DangerTree

tarzanstree said:


> Finally took the time to figure out how to get my video up. Here she is...glorious day!
> 
> <object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/jDhLp1BtiGw?version=3"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/jDhLp1BtiGw?version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></object>



Crap and I thought all they grew in Humbolt county was pot!


----------



## Cedarkerf

tarzanstree said:


> @ Bob...I will never be cured! Always have a hankerin to pack my gear and head West, especially in the spring...or when I talk to one of my buddies that are in a pickle patch, or when I watch these vids, or when I go out to my saw shop and see some long bars hangin on the wall, and smell the awesome saw shop smell, or....Yep, it's always there.
> 
> @ SS...Thanks man!
> 
> 
> Thanks to everyone for watching AND for your nice comments. I was reluctant to put those vids up as I don't want people thinking that I was putting them on here to brag...just wanted to share a glorious time


You dont have to be so humble youve been photographed by National Geographic post away with more great pics and vids.


----------



## Greystoke

Thanks everyone 

@ Danger Tree...It seems to be an industry there. I can't remember a strip that I cut in there that did not have some sort of growing paraphernalia in it. Usually the foresters laying out the strips were there long before us to see any actual plants.


----------



## Burvol

*I am lurking like a creepy man in a van at the park*

Had 8 inches of snow in 3 hours today. The most wonderful time to cut logs for cheap  I love it, I am an addict. Here or Walmart, I'll take here. 

Good to see everyone behaving and staying active in the loggin' forum. Git er done. Will report back on the shoveling tommorrow.


----------



## slowp

Cody, do you mind if I link your video to a treehugger laden forum? I'm feeling mischevious and like to stir them up a bit. How many hours did it take to get that punkin down?

Burvol, it was snowing hard up here too. Plus the elk hunters are running around and half of them do not understand what turnouts are for.


----------



## 056 kid

Great to hear you havin a good time brother!

Me, I stay busy blasting music so the whole neighborhood can hear. . I think they like it cause no one has knocked on the door yet LOLOL.


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> Cody, do you mind if I link your video to a treehugger laden forum? I'm feeling mischevious and like to stir them up a bit.



Can you let us know the name of the forum? It might be fun to watch their reaction.


----------



## slowp

Gologit said:


> Can you let us know the name of the forum? It might be fun to watch their reaction.




Nah. I should keep it to myself. Some of them will be insulted, except I think I am on a lot of their "ignore" lists. I do my part.
:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## RandyMac

Come on sweetP, tell us.


----------



## slowp

Well, I probably won't tonight. It is almost bed time--gots to go over the pass and to the dry side tomorrow. I'm also researching building a cellophane kayak. That's what some of them look like. I guess I could grow tomatoes in a clear plastic boat when it wasn't in the water. If it was a Humboldt County boat, well, you know what would grow in it there. 

Now back to tree falling. Of which it will all be feller buncher tomorrow.


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> Nah. I should keep it to myself. Some of them will be insulted, except I think I am on a lot of their "ignore" lists. I do my part.
> :hmm3grin2orange:



Ah, c'mon. Please? We'll be good. I promise. hehehehehehehe


----------



## madhatte

^

What he said. I got credentials and stuff, you know!


----------



## RandyMac

I am well known for my restraint.


----------



## Cedarkerf

Comon slowp that sounds like fun.


----------



## DangerTree

Hey Cody the name here is Steve. That big wood is lots of fun gets the heart pumpin' no matter how many trees you cut. I just love cuttin pumpies on the dark side of the mountain for salvage shake and quake style. Nice work, were you working the jack or the saw?


----------



## DangerTree

Someone asked me to post the typical swampies I have the pleasure of killing on a regular basis. I will be killing these next week Hoowa.


----------



## DangerTree

tarzanstree said:


> Thanks everyone
> 
> @ Danger Tree...It seems to be an industry there. I can't remember a strip that I cut in there that did not have some sort of growing paraphernalia in it. Usually the foresters laying out the strips were there long before us to see any actual plants.


Just a question Cody do they still have good patches of red heads in North Cal and why are they cuttin' the pumpies I though the huggers pooched all that. Are they duming them cuz' there old and want to salvage the trees or just high grading? Oh I guess I should ask what year that was.


----------



## Greystoke

@ Jesse...snow is never any fun for a timber faller...bout the only thing I ever liked about it was I worked harder so as to stay warm! 

@ Slowp...That tree took about 3 hours to fall, and about the same to buck. And by all means, link the vid! I hope to get a report back like this:

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ElJFYwRtrH4?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ElJFYwRtrH4?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

@ Steve...The first video was my tree so I was mostly runnin saw, with a little jackin, but on the second tree, just whatever to help. Not sure what redheads are??? We were cutting this timber for Pacific Lumber Company in 2002, and both of these trees were Residual old growth and they had been passed up by the lucky old boys who made the first cut, because they had the tops blown out. My tree was only 130 feet tall...but it had 33 bushel! (thousand bd. ft.)
Now that I do residential tree work I cut a lot of cottonwoods. I did this job last friday:

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/BBC4dY7ER_s?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/BBC4dY7ER_s?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/w74E6DQfcs4?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/w74E6DQfcs4?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

These cottonwood were way rotten...just a rind holding them....The one in that vid was the worst. I Had to leave a lot of holding wood on the near side, cuz if i would have cut it up much more I think it would have snapped and gone across the power line and hit a church. Jacks are nice sometimes doing residential tree work, although as you can see, these trees don't present much of a challenge for them compared to a big redwood.


----------



## D&B Mack

That first video is nuts!!!:jawdrop:


----------



## Cedarkerf

Hurray another big stinky cottan wood bites the dust


----------



## Burvol

Nice vids Cody. 

Sorry about the fish, wasn't trying to pry, just must have missed that message. Was just curious cause that was a new batch/recipe. Been killing trees with 4 hours of driving a day, much of it on foresaken roads, grinding chains, maintance, ect. then taking Lindsey out on the town when Mama is feeling good, and then we go killing salmon on the weekends. Sheesh, I'll sleep and get fat this winter. Too much to do while there is not 5 feet of snow on the ground. 

Got new tin pants today. Awesome :rockn:


----------



## Burvol

Cedarkerf said:


> Hurray another big stinky cottan wood bites the dust



That's COTTON...Brian. Oh, hello bud!


----------



## Cedarkerf

Burvol said:


> That's COTTON...Brian. Oh, hello bud!



Spellins nver ben mie strnog point


----------



## Burvol

Cedarkerf said:


> Spellins nver ben mie strnog point



st'I ko. eW llits evol ay.


----------



## slowp

Hey, he lives on the other side of the mountain where it might could actually be spelled Cottan. As in "Lets go swarp some of that stinky cottan wood."


----------



## Cedarkerf

Burvol said:


> st'I ko. eW llits evol ay.


Thanks Jesse


----------



## Cedarkerf

slowp said:


> Hey, he lives on the other side of the mountain where it might could actually be spelled Cottan. As in "Lets go swarp some of that stinky cottan wood."



Ya you go far enough north the drawl kicks back in


----------



## Greystoke

Burvol said:


> Nice vids Cody.
> 
> Sorry about the fish, wasn't trying to pry, just must have missed that message. Was just curious cause that was a new batch/recipe. Been killing trees with 4 hours of driving a day, much of it on foresaken roads, grinding chains, maintance, ect. then taking Lindsey out on the town when Mama is feeling good, and then we go killing salmon on the weekends. Sheesh, I'll sleep and get fat this winter. Too much to do while there is not 5 feet of snow on the ground.
> 
> Got new tin pants today. Awesome :rockn:



That's okay man. You can make it up to me by sending me some more! LOL! Your smoked salmon is Awesome! I don't miss the days of long drives and lots of saw work, but it was easier to bear if you were in juice wood...if not?...all the worse! Take care pard


----------



## Hddnis

tarzanstree said:


> These cottonwood were way rotten...just a rind holding them....The one in that vid was the worst. I Had to leave a lot of holding wood on the near side, cuz if i would have cut it up much more I think it would have snapped and gone across the power line and hit a church. Jacks are nice sometimes doing residential tree work, although as you can see, these trees don't present much of a challenge for them compared to a big redwood.





Great vids. I wonder if those jacks lay awake at night feeling they were made for something bigger and more glorious?



Mr. HE


----------



## DangerTree

tarzanstree said:


> @ Jesse...snow is never any fun for a timber faller...bout the only thing I ever liked about it was I worked harder so as to stay warm!
> 
> @ Slowp...That tree took about 3 hours to fall, and about the same to buck. And by all means, link the vid! I hope to get a report back like this:
> 
> <object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ElJFYwRtrH4?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ElJFYwRtrH4?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>
> 
> @ Steve...The first video was my tree so I was mostly runnin saw, with a little jackin, but on the second tree, just whatever to help. Not sure what redheads are??? We were cutting this timber for Pacific Lumber Company in 2002, and both of these trees were Residual old growth and they had been passed up by the lucky old boys who made the first cut, because they had the tops blown out. My tree was only 130 feet tall...but it had 33 bushel! (thousand bd. ft.)
> Now that I do residential tree work I cut a lot of cottonwoods. I did this job last friday:
> 
> <object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/BBC4dY7ER_s?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/BBC4dY7ER_s?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>
> 
> <object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/w74E6DQfcs4?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/w74E6DQfcs4?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>
> 
> These cottonwood were way rotten...just a rind holding them....The one in that vid was the worst. I Had to leave a lot of holding wood on the near side, cuz if i would have cut it up much more I think it would have snapped and gone across the power line and hit a church. Jacks are nice sometimes doing residential tree work, although as you can see, these trees don't present much of a challenge for them compared to a big redwood.



Did I say redheads I must have had a Fruedian slip I meant redwoods funny that eh! That cottonwood you were jackin' could you not have placed a bull rope in it and yanked er' down? Much faster than pumpin'. I have a job I will likely be doing here in the spring that has 8-10 of those all along the power lines and road edge. It will be a camp ground so I'm told. I figure most of them I should be able to fix a line and yank em' with my 5 ton into the clearing. Some of them I may have to prep because of passing issues with trees in the lay. They are big and very wide branches and too tall to reach with my HiRanger. Where do you hail from and are you a private or employed.


----------



## Metals406

DangerTree said:


> Did I say redheads I must have had a Fruedian slip I meant redwoods funny that eh! That cottonwood you were jackin' could you not have placed a bull rope in it and yanked er' down? Much faster than pumpin'. I have a job I will likely be doing here in the spring that has 8-10 of those all along the power lines and road edge. It will be a camp ground so I'm told. I figure most of them I should be able to fix a line and yank em' with my 5 ton into the clearing. Some of them I may have to prep because of passing issues with trees in the lay. They are big and very wide branches and too tall to reach with my HiRanger. Where do you hail from and are you a private or employed.



Cody is in NW Montana, and has his own tree business. I'm gonna throw out a guess here, and say that he didn't rope these over because the leaders were full of rot. . . And a guy would then run the risk of bad stuff happening with a faced-up tree and a rope coming off (due to the tie-in point snapping off) as you were trying to get it over.

There was a fence and building within the trees drop zones -- so jackin'em was probably the best medicine.


----------



## DangerTree

You can tell all that from the video? Looks wide open to me even a bull rope tied to the fat part below his stance in the crotch should be more than fine to pull that twig over don't you think? That tree is no match for a 5 ton truck! The problem I could see is the ability to get a heel block in or position a truck for direct pull.
Not trying to be a dink here just looks like a big hole there for a smallish tree. The question is was that just a- let's use a jack on the cottonwood for fun video or what? I almost never jack trees that small. Not a penis thing, I just find jacking painfully slow and not all that safe on small trees because I have lifted and broken trees off the stump before no property damage I got lucky but I rig all questionable trees now. Maybe I should look again. Cheers


----------



## Greystoke

DangerTree said:


> You can tell all that from the video? Looks wide open to me even a bull rope tied to the fat part below his stance in the crotch should be more than fine to pull that twig over don't you think? That tree is no match for a 5 ton truck! The problem I could see is the ability to get a heel block in or position a truck for direct pull.
> Not trying to be a dink here just looks like a big hole there for a smallish tree. The question is was that just a- let's use a jack on the cottonwood for fun video or what? I almost never jack trees that small. Not a penis thing, I just find jacking painfully slow and not all that safe on small trees because I have lifted and broken trees off the stump before no property damage I got lucky but I rig all questionable trees now. Maybe I should look again. Cheers



Most times I do rig and pull, but for one it was faster for me to saw a jack seat than it was to drag out a bull line and rig it in the tree, and usually when I pull a tree over, I rig to another tree, or a big piece of equipment, and since all I had to rig to that day was my little Toyota, it was a no-brainer. One reason it took so long Is because I topped these trees so they were just stobs, and I left a lot of holding wood because they had way rotten cores. Pretty easy for me to slap a jack seat and go that route. You do jack trees sometimes? Do you use Silvey Tree Jacks? If so, which ones?


----------



## Greystoke

Hddnis said:


> Great vids. I wonder if those jacks lay awake at night feeling they were made for something bigger and more glorious?
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. HE



I know I sure do!


----------



## DangerTree

Metals406 said:


> Cody is in NW Montana, and has his own tree business. I'm gonna throw out a guess here, and say that he didn't rope these over because the leaders were full of rot. . . And a guy would then run the risk of bad stuff happening with a faced-up tree and a rope coming off (due to the tie-in point snapping off) as you were trying to get it over.
> 
> There was a fence and building within the trees drop zones -- so jackin'em was probably the best medicine.


 I was right he was jacking the butt not the whole tree, so the piece he jacked off could have been rigged and pulled in way less time with more security. That being said jacking is easy work and no denying he got the job done. But it wasn't necessary unless he could not rig for the reasons previously stated.


----------



## DangerTree

I do jack some trees. I use a Tree saver Silvey Tree jack I find most of my jobs have large iron around or my HiRanger and the jack is not used often. In truth most times I use the jack in residential work I find I still back up with Bull rope. Call me a woosie or whatever, even though my name is Danger ( Stephen ) I prefer the safest route possible for the buck. The jack got lot's of use shake logging old growth cedar back when salvage was king and shake was legal in the states. Biggest market was Cali but I was told that insurance co. would not cover homes with shakes even with fire retardant on em' anyways that kinda killed the shake logging. So the jack only sees the light of day when all else fails. Oh when we were shaking we had special non slip plates we welded blobs of metal on one face and a cup on the other and we used bottle jacks not Silveys. Bottle jacks sometimes two or three at a time. They would slowly leak out and we would slip shims in as we pumped! NO kidding.


----------



## Greystoke

DangerTree said:


> I was right he was jacking the butt not the whole tree, so the piece he jacked off could have been rigged and pulled in way less time with more security.


 You mean "jacked over".  Read my post...I guarantee I had those trees down in less time than it would have taken to drag out a bull line and rig and pull them, and it was very secure, which I made it so by taking the tops out first.



> That being said jacking is easy work and no denying he got the job done. But it wasn't necessary unless he could not rig for the reasons previously stated.



Jacking trees is not easy work...it gets easier when one acquires the skill-set needed to do it proficiently. Also, it depends on the setting...most of the tree jacking that I have done was on a logging side working on rugged helicopter ground and there is nothing easy about spring boarding big trees on steep ground so you can get a jack seat in them all the while packing around a 70 lb. set of jacks...so yes, this setting was much easier for me.


----------



## DangerTree

I won't take anything from you Cody you obviously know your sh.t I was simply trying to make an observation not test the skill you definitely have. I am sure we would make an unstoppable team what you did was right for sure. And yes it is a toss up sometimes which is less work the heavy jack vs. the heavy rope. And steep and deep is mostly cruel work to be sure. It is good that you post video as it shows what can be done .
good work and thanks.
By the way where in Montana are you from?


----------



## Metals406

DangerTree said:


> I was right he was jacking the butt not the whole tree, so the piece he jacked off could have been rigged and pulled in way less time with more security. That being said jacking is easy work and no denying he got the job done. But it wasn't necessary unless he could not rig for the reasons previously stated.



Like I said, That 'could have been' a reason. . . And no, I didn't tell all that from a video. Cody is a friend, and we talked about that job, as we talk about a lot of his jobs.

And the point that I was trying to make, was that the leaders were sketchy -- so he went in and cut them out -- leaving a spar. . . And why he didn't tie off to a rotten limb or leader. The boles themselves were full of rot as well.

I agree with Cody in that jacking was plenty fast. . . The ground was covered with debris, there may have been other obstacles for his truck as well. . . And it's just a little truck, not a 5-ton anything.

I'm a big fan of tagging a tree with a line for safety and speed, but I'm also a fan of jackin' a tree in certain situations.

How long did it take Cody to cut in a seat, set the jacks and go to cutting? I guarantee by the time he set a line, snatched the rope (or single lined to the truck), and got everything set, the trees would have already been down.

All a guy has to do is watch the time counter in the videos to see how long it took. . . Minutes, not hours or days.

And on a bid job, a guy gets to move as fast as he wants anyway. . . If he got $300 a tree, and wanted to take 4 hrs. each, that's his prerogative. Piece work lets a guy set his own hourly pay rate.


----------



## Greystoke

DangerTree said:


> I won't take anything from you Cody you obviously know your sh.t I was simply trying to make an observation not test the skill you definitely have. I am sure we would make an unstoppable team what you did was right for sure. And yes it is a toss up sometimes which is less work the heavy jack vs. the heavy rope. And steep and deep is mostly cruel work to be sure. It is good that you post video as it shows what can be done .
> good work and thanks.
> By the way where in Montana are you from?



No big deal pard  I currently live in Missoula, with plans to move back down to the Bitterroot Valley, bout 50 miles South, which is where I grew up.


----------



## DangerTree

I have always wanted to take a trip down there I here it's very nice. It must resemble southern Alberta a bit yes. And it seems you have a good defender a good friend.


----------



## SWE#Kipp

Dangertree what is shake logging ??


----------



## Metals406

DangerTree said:


> I have always wanted to take a trip down there I here it's very nice. It must resemble southern Alberta a bit yes. And it seems you have a good defender a good friend.



It's all good bro. . . I wasn't trying to defend Cody or myself, just saying where I was coming from.

1,000,000,000 ways to skin a cat.


----------



## DangerTree

SWE#Kipp said:


> Dangertree what is shake logging ??


Shakes are like shingles made for roofs. The shakes are different from shingles as they are free of defects like knots and warp etc. Shakes are split from Bolts or blocks cut 24" long with all rot and knots axed from them on the hill side. The cedar trees selected are normally as large as can be found in dense steep north facing devils club infested mosquito breeding grounds that the planet has to offer. The bark and rotten guts are hacked out and piled against the hillside as to make a level platform. A sling long enough for 1/3 of a cord is laid down and the Bolts are piled (carefully) there upon it. When roughly 120 slings are on the hillside we call in the heli and chase slings as fast as you can trying not forget where they all are. When the heli lifts the pile you must take a stick or axe handle and beat the sling tight as the pile will likely have to be dragged up through dense canopy. When the sling is not tight you get rained on by 20 kilo Bolts and hugging the closest tree you can find is all you got! Very dangerous work. The Bolts are they flown to a landing ,piled on a large truck and shipped to a factory where they are hand or machine split into shingles. Long winded but there you have it.


----------



## SWE#Kipp

DangerTree said:


> Shakes are like shingles made for roofs. The shakes are different from shingles as they are free of defects like knots and warp etc. Shakes are split from Bolts or blocks cut 24" long with all rot and knots axed from them on the hill side. The cedar trees selected are normally as large as can be found in dense steep north facing devils club infested mosquito breeding grounds that the planet has to offer. The bark and rotten guts are hacked out and piled against the hillside as to make a level platform. A sling long enough for 1/3 of a cord is laid down and the Bolts are piled (carefully) there upon it. When roughly 120 slings are on the hillside we call in the heli and chase slings as fast as you can trying not forget where they all are. When the heli lifts the pile you must take a stick or axe handle and beat the sling tight as the pile will likely have to be dragged up through dense canopy. When the sling is not tight you get rained on by 20 kilo Bolts and hugging the closest tree you can find is all you got! Very dangerous work. The Bolts are they flown to a landing ,piled on a large truck and shipped to a factory where they are hand or machine split into shingles. Long winded but there you have it.



Thank you very much for the good explanation


----------



## DangerTree

SWE#Kipp said:


> Thank you very much for the good explanation


No problem Swedes make the best saws so thanks for that.


----------



## forestryworks

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/3YBm2tgporM?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/3YBm2tgporM?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>


----------



## 056 kid

A friend of mine took a short clip of me dumping a dead tree today, haha I didnt even know he was doing so. It should be up loaded on the tube here soon. Il get it on here so everyone can see the ease coaster cut a 40+ incher with his 20" bar.(It was all I had people, I cant find my chains, lost in the move).


----------



## 056 kid

Here it be. .


Could someone clue me in on how to imbed stuff?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQK85tCFL8Y

Stump came out un-even as hell, o well, im rusty. . .


----------



## Metals406

056 kid said:


> Here it be. .
> 
> 
> Could someone clue me in on how to imbed stuff?
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQK85tCFL8Y



<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/iQK85tCFL8Y?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/iQK85tCFL8Y?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>


----------



## forestryworks

056 kid said:


> Here it be. .
> 
> 
> Could someone clue me in on how to imbed stuff?
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQK85tCFL8Y
> 
> Stump came out un-even as hell, o well, im rusty. . .



Nice job!


----------



## Gologit

What's that nasty looking white stuff on the ground? 

 Man, I love being semi-retired.


----------



## 056 kid

forestryworks said:


> Nice job!



thanks!


Gologit said:


> What's that nasty looking white stuff on the ground?
> 
> Man, I love being semi-retired.



some wet ace slush..


----------



## Greystoke

Good job pard. Was that taken around LaGrande?


----------



## DangerTree

He must be clearing for a new oil derrick.


----------



## 056 kid

tarzanstree said:


> Good job pard. Was that taken around LaGrande?



Thanks, and yes it was. Spruce right?


----------



## banshee67

056 kid said:


> Here it be. .
> 
> 
> Could someone clue me in on how to imbed stuff?
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQK85tCFL8Y
> 
> Stump came out un-even as hell, o well, im rusty. . .



it sure looked like you walked up and spit on the stump at the end, was it that bad?


----------



## bitzer

Nice tree Kid! 

I liked the wave and the spit at the end. Nice touch.


----------



## Gologit

banshee67 said:


> it sure looked like you walked up and spit on the stump at the end, was it that bad?



Probably not. He probably got to grinning at how well things were going and got a mouthful of chips. Fallers never smile when they're on the saw. Ever.


----------



## Greystoke

056 kid said:


> Thanks, and yes it was. Spruce right?



Can't tell from the vid? First guess is Spruce, maybe grand fir, or White fir maybe? I fell some nice Red and White Fir around that area. Fell a snag off about a 100' bluff on that job too...oops...it was an accident(I lost it over backards)...that's my story anyhow, and I'm stickin to it


----------



## 056 kid

banshee67 said:


> it sure looked like you walked up and spit on the stump at the end, was it that bad?



I think what you are seeing is some steamy breath that I am expelling. That tree got me alittle winded at the end, between facing, swinging the ax, scarfing, sniping, cutting the heart, and back cut. all the face jazz was just so I could get deep enough into the heart. I didnt want to have to screw around in the back cut, blocking and such. I went up and rounded it all up today with a 32''(bought a chain today.) and my friend estimated that it was 57''. I don't know about that, im gonna measure tomorrow. . .


----------



## DangerTree

I need to get a video camera maybe one day I'll crush a house or a car. It would be a shame not to get it on video! I've had some cool things happen, like a huge tree flip a log a hundred feet in the air and harpoon a beaver lodge. That sh.. rocks never a camera when you need em'. That's it you talked me into it I'm getting one. Those great videos are too compelling! And they are legal too.


----------



## DangerTree

http://www.arboristsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=158196&stc=1&d=1289930094I said in the truck!


----------



## DangerTree

I took this after the HO said "shoulda called a pro" My brain said laugh hard but my wallet said not.


----------



## Greystoke

I love it when people get their "just" reward  for being stupid. I like the creative pic of the pine.


----------



## banshee67

DangerTree said:


> I took this after the HO said "shoulda called a pro" My brain said laugh hard but my wallet said not.








".. but i notched the other side, i dont know why it fell this way..":greenchainsaw:


----------



## Chris1530

Well Hello Everyone..
Im New here.. Have never logged for a company. or worked in the industry.
I do however Cut Firewood, as a side job, and also for my own heat.
I ran a Saw on a Hotshot crew 10 years ago also.
Been cutting wood for around 7 years.
Been falling various trees for 10 years. 
Mostly cut Western Juniper for wood, but also cut Lodge Pole Pine..
Heres a couple Pics of some lodge pole.




Stump




Another tree




Loaded and heading down the Hill..


----------



## D&B Mack

Chris1530 said:


> Been cutting wood for around 7 years.
> Been falling various trees for 10 years.
> QUOTE]
> 
> Welcome, good looking cuts. This phrase can sound a little confusing, but think I know what you meant.:monkey:


----------



## Greystoke

Hey Chris...welcome to AS


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## slowp

Hey Cody! I was thinking of that picture of you hanging over the side of the log bucking when we came upon a big tree across the road today. I didn't cut it, I was the Wedge Wench. But I kept picturing that picture.

I posted it in the Blowdown and Earthquake topic.


----------



## Chris1530

D&B Mack said:


> Chris1530 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Been cutting wood for around 7 years.
> Been falling various trees for 10 years.
> QUOTE]
> 
> Welcome, good looking cuts. This phrase can sound a little confusing, but think I know what you meant.:monkey:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah sorry, cutting wood for 7 yrs.. tree falling for 10 because of the shot crew work..
> 
> Thanks found this site and looking to learn as much as i can
Click to expand...


----------



## DangerTree

That's a perfect stump it looks kinda green though were you firewoodin'? I hate pine I hope you burned it right there.


----------



## DangerTree

Hey Cody got he day OFF? it snowed last night and I don't want to play.


----------



## Greystoke

DangerTree said:


> Hey Cody got he day OFF? it snowed last night and I don't want to play.



Got the day off today...been climbing all week so it is kinda nice...I have to climb tomorrow and it is supposed to be cold and snowy...oh well, guess it will make me work faster!


----------



## Rounder

tarzanstree said:


> Got the day off today...been climbing all week so it is kinda nice...I have to climb tomorrow and it is supposed to be cold and snowy...oh well, guess it will make me work faster!



Yer gonna have to work real fast to stay warm tomorrow - Sam


----------



## 056 kid

Tuesday here in La Grande it is supposed to be a high of 24F


----------



## RandyMac

48 and raining, winter sux.


----------



## coastalfaller

RandyMac said:


> 48 and raining, winter sux.



Yes.....yes it does! 

Too much wood on the ground up high, now due to breakdowns and shutdowns, unlikely it will be logged until next spring, which in turn means no scale until next spring!! Ah logging.....gotta love it!


----------



## Gologit

coastalfaller said:


> Yes.....yes it does!
> 
> Too much wood on the ground up high, now due to breakdowns and shutdowns, unlikely it will be logged until next spring, which in turn means no scale until next spring!! Ah logging.....gotta love it!



Hey, just look at it as an early batch of retirement time...while you're still young enough to really enjoy it. Works for me.


----------



## Thorcw

High of 36 today low of 9


----------



## Burvol

coastalfaller said:


> Yes.....yes it does!
> 
> Too much wood on the ground up high, now due to breakdowns and shutdowns, unlikely it will be logged until next spring, which in turn means no scale until next spring!! Ah logging.....gotta love it!



That's a bummer. If it was being paid by the ton.... super soaked logs all winter give ya a nice little bonus LOL 

How you been bud?


----------



## Metals406

*I'll see y'all's temps, and raise ya. . .*


----------



## slowp

Yes! The Seattle (coastie) weather people are looking grim and talking about arctic temps of...get this...29 above. Warning everybody to be careful. 

I say it aint cold until snot freezes. Sorry for being crass. It looks like you will get cold.


----------



## coastalfaller

Gologit said:


> Hey, just look at it as an early batch of retirement time...while you're still young enough to really enjoy it. Works for me.



Haha, yeah, that's a good way of looking at it! Would be more enjoyable with the loot to to go with it though!


----------



## coastalfaller

Burvol said:


> That's a bummer. If it was being paid by the ton.... super soaked logs all winter give ya a nice little bonus LOL
> 
> How you been bud?



Ha, yeah, that's a nice bonus alright! All by the m3 here though!

Been good, Burv, thanks. Things have been busy up til now. How about yourself?


----------



## Rounder

Metals406 said:


> *I'll see y'all's temps, and raise ya. . .*



I'll be in Swan Lake, sleeping in the Suby, come on over and join the suffer fest if ya want to shiver around the fire and drink whiskey with me, lol - Sam


----------



## hammerlogging

mtsamloggit said:


> I'll be in Swan Lake, sleeping in the Suby, come on over and join the suffer fest if ya want to shiver around the fire and drink whiskey with me, lol - Sam



After a point a tent is warmer than the car. Enough whiskey and it shouldn't really matter.


----------



## Rounder

hammerlogging said:


> After a point a tent is warmer than the car. Enough whiskey and it shouldn't really matter.



Going to be counting on the whiskey factor, lol. Thanksgiving can't come soon enough- a legit excuse to take a day off , hope all is well Joe - Sam


----------



## Metals406

mtsamloggit said:


> I'll be in Swan Lake, sleeping in the Suby, come on over and join the suffer fest if ya want to shiver around the fire and drink whiskey with me, lol - Sam



I tell ya, I'm tempted. . . I've cut a lot of wood in -10 to -20. I'll draw the line at -20, cause even though there's "heat in the tools", that's freaking cold. Plus, equipment starts breaking in them temps.






Coldest I've been in was -78 below with the wind chill on a ski mountain. Barely made it down the hill on that one. . . My zipper froze to my chin and I didn't realize it, the sum beech tore of a chunk when it let go. There was a meat wagon at the bottom of the hill to pick up two fellas. . . One fell over real easy like and snapped a leg, the other had a heart attack -- the EMT's said both were from the extreme cold.


----------



## DangerTree

I draw the line when my snot starts freezing.


----------



## slowp

Oooooh, 29 here this morning. Pretty soon I'll turn on the news and see if the Seattle TV people have their puffy coats on. 

Seriously, a small tent with a dog or two in it, can be pretty warm. Dogs make good heaters. I just give him a bath so he smells OK before the trip.


----------



## floyd

Guy at Harris Pine left about 500 loads of Ponderosa pine decked under 10' of snow. Boy was he pissed at the scale. Boy was he stupid.

I was scaling it. It was ugly.


----------



## Slamm

slowp said:


> Oooooh, 29 here this morning. Pretty soon I'll turn on the news and see if the Seattle TV people have their puffy coats on.
> 
> Seriously, a small tent with a dog or two in it, can be pretty warm. Dogs make good heaters. I just give him a bath so he smells OK before the trip.



That is quite true, I have noticed how much warmer the truck is when I leave a 110+ pound canine sleeping in the backseat of my truck on winter days and I'm done for the day. I get in and the truck really isn't that cold, a very minor side benefit to dog buddies, LOL.

Sam


----------



## hammerlogging

*Yes Randy thats Uncle Carlo*


----------



## RandyMac

How do Uncle Carlo?


----------



## hammerlogging

jugs just down below the top of the label so hopefully I won't have to borrow the jug Pablo passed out with in the ditch back there up the road. But Pablo wouldn't want it any other way, surely Pablo would want us to share his jug.


----------



## RandyMac

I'm talking to Jim, he has an insight that few others have.


----------



## Greystoke

mtsamloggit said:


> Going to be counting on the whiskey factor, lol. Thanksgiving can't come soon enough- a legit excuse to take a day off , hope all is well Joe - Sam



Whiskey! How much? I am on my way! Oh wait, I can drink whiskey right here in my warm livin room all nice and cozy...have fun pard  You guys burnin piles?


----------



## Curlycherry1

slowp said:


> I say it aint cold until snot freezes.



Baah! It is not cold unless your spit freezes before it hits the ground. It actually snaps as it flash freezes. About -20F makes that happen.


----------



## MR4WD

Curlycherry1 said:


> Baah! It is not cold unless your spit freezes before it hits the ground. It actually snaps as it flash freezes. About -20F makes that happen.



Not quite like it does when it's -55c. I determine it's cold when the artic fox are warming up underneath the block of your crewcab ford that hasn't been shut off since october.


----------



## Rounder

tarzanstree said:


> Whiskey! How much? I am on my way! Oh wait, I can drink whiskey right here in my warm livin room all nice and cozy...have fun pard  You guys burnin piles?



Yep burnin. Just got in. A little chilly up there on the lake. Roads sucked. And yes, there was plenty of whiskey. You must be getting soft, sitting in the living room drinking whiskey, don't you know that it tastes better when it's -20 out? Have a good holiday man, drive safe! - Sam


----------



## DangerTree

I keep me a little fireball in the freezer for when I get home!!


----------



## Burvol

I am happy all the good sawyers come hang in this thread. Good group we got here. More pics please. Even in the living room sipping on some good stuff or what your building for dinner. Happy holidays, drink a few or several for me!


----------



## Plankton

Well I wouldn't consider myself among the best sawyers of arboristsite but heres some pictures of me falling.................a stump! with my ported/modded 084 and a 42" .404 B/C.

















And some bucking:









I know these look like there from alaska in the 90's but there actually from new hampshire a couple of months ago.

They're just handheld digital photos of prints from a disposable film camera.


----------



## forestryworks

Plankton said:


> Well I wouldn't consider myself among the best sawyers of arboristsite but heres some pictures of me falling.................a stump! with my ported/modded 084 and a 42" .404 B/C.
> 
> And some bucking:
> 
> I know these look like there from alaska in the 90's but there actually from new hampshire a couple of months ago.
> 
> They're just handheld digital photos of prints from a disposable film camera.



Thanks for sharing. I may take my next pics with a disposable for the nostalgic look.


----------



## Greystoke

[/QUOTE]I know these look like there from alaska in the 90's but there actually from new hampshire a couple of months ago.[/QUOTE]


 Wow...the 90's...I must be getting old....no way! Nice pictures.


----------



## bitzer

Nice old school look plankton! What happend to the top?


----------



## Burvol

I know these look like there from alaska in the 90's but there actually from new hampshire a couple of months ago.[/QUOTE]


 Wow...the 90's...I must be getting old....no way! Nice pictures.[/QUOTE]

Get back in your rockin' chair, there old timer and tell us pups another story


----------



## RandyMac

Fetch the stick puppy.


----------



## coastalfaller

RandyMac said:


> Fetch the stick puppy.



Funny you should say that, Randy! I had a dog I brought out with me one day. Damn dog was watching the top of the tree as I was falling it, when it started to go so did the dog! I had to tackler her! Back to the crummy with her for the rest of the day! Chalk one up to experience!


----------



## Greystoke

Just struck me kinda funny seeing as how I am ONLY 33 yrs old and I fell timber in AK in the 90's. No stories to tell.


----------



## RandyMac

tarzanstree said:


> Just struck me kinda funny seeing as how I am ONLY 33 yrs old and I fell timber in AK in the 90's. No stories to tell.



don't trip over your cane Cody.


----------



## Greystoke

RandyMac said:


> don't trip over your cane Cody.



I think I am startin to develop a complex...I hear a lot of remarks lately about how young looking my Wife is, who is only two weeks younger than I...she gets carded and I don't...it was not too long ago that I was constantly getting teased by all the OLDER timber fallers that I worked with about my young looks...not too long ago at all...now I have gray in my beard...lol! Doesn't even phase me!


----------



## RandyMac

Complex?
The last time I saw old Ray, his first words were "get out of the rain, boy", I got promoted to "son" a bit later. That was 4 years ago, he still saw me as a wayward child.


----------



## Greystoke

RandyMac said:


> Complex?
> The last time I saw old Ray, his first words were "get out of the rain, boy", I got promoted to "son" a bit later. That was 4 years ago, he still saw me as a wayward child.



Exactly...that is why I had to laugh about the 90's nostalgic pics...I know I am still a pup, and have the whole world in front of me


----------



## Plankton

Damn, I guess I sure am a young whippersnapper then, I was born in the 90's! :biggrinbounce2:

bitzercreek, Cheers! and its actually two different logs in the first and second pictures:

This is the one I'm stumping, I wasn't going to put this one up at first because I look so goofy in it but good shot of the stump.







Alright thats enough from me, right about crowding up the thread.


----------



## Burvol

*Good hand faller, buncher man, elk hunter, friend.*











12 yard bow kill. He brought the rack home to show his family in town over Turkey day. It was a bruiser. I butchered his portion that he split from his partner. It was a friggin' slug, tell you that. I know I am bias, but the Roosevelt strain is such a more impressive elk to me than the rocky. 200lbs. plus bigger on the hoof and a different look.


----------



## mdavlee

That's a nice bull for sure. I need to make a hunting trip out there.


----------



## Cedarkerf

Nice. Yup I agree Roosevelt is an impressive animal. Antlers aren't as propportional long but thicker heavier beam and a stouter body.


----------



## slowp

I saw some stiff elk legs sticking out of a pickup bed today. I'm not sure what season it is....tribal? 

I've been munching on elk sausage this week. Yum.


----------



## Cedarkerf

Duck season! No its wabbit season!

It is Archery


----------



## Rounder

Nice Elk rack pics, those Roosevelt's do have impressive mass to them - Sam


----------



## ChainsawmanXX

Just starting to get into falling timber... (Dont know if thats a good thing by the way! haha) But I Have been logging with my dad for about 3 years now and been falling trees for about 6 months.. I got my chip, and backcut level. And I can read a tree pretty good if i can say myself. But im curious, what is exactly an Dutchman, and a sissywalk (I forgot the word? lol) thank for all of your guy's help, I have learned a quite a bit from this site!


----------



## mdavlee

Search soft dutchman and ultra soft dutchman on youtube and it will pull up a couple videos.


----------



## Meadow Beaver

The "soft" and "ultra soft" dutchman are pretty much just a swing dutchman with multiple cuts. My $0.02


----------



## bitzer

ChainsawmanXX said:


> Just starting to get into falling timber... (Dont know if thats a good thing by the way! haha) But I Have been logging with my dad for about 3 years now and been falling trees for about 6 months.. I got my chip, and backcut level. And I can read a tree pretty good if i can say myself. But im curious, what is exactly an Dutchman, and a sissywalk (I forgot the word? lol) thank for all of your guy's help, I have learned a quite a bit from this site!



Check page 96 and 97 of this thread. Small discusion about it that I recollect. Siswheel, siswel, sizwel is a piece of pie taken out of the face. Cut parallel to the hinge on one side and diagonal out in the face to take out the piece. It makes the hinge act as sort of a block face on one side allowing the hinge to bend on the swing to side instead of break. Search them on here. I think there is a big difference between a dutch and a soft dutch. Different action. Swing cuts work differently in different wood at different times of year.


----------



## forestryworks

In my excitement to get to the stump after 3 weeks of no cutting, I forgot to set up the camera of this almost 70 footer going down.

Here is an after photo.

70-80ft is tall for this neck of the woods. 

On a related note, in the timber cruising class during our timber marking project, we marked a pine with 4 saw logs, clear to 50ft. Those are few and far between here.


----------



## ChainsawmanXX

This is me falling some White Oak today


----------



## Erock

forestryworks said:


> In my excitement to get to the stump after 3 weeks of no cutting, I forgot to set up the camera of this almost 70 footer going down.
> 
> Here is an after photo.
> 
> 70-80ft is tall for this neck of the woods.
> 
> On a related note, in the timber cruising class during our timber marking project, we marked a pine with 4 saw logs, clear to 50ft. Those are few and far between here.



I like the dawgs you got on that saw. Damned if a new ms460 comes with them anymore. The one's they got on the new saws are worthless. and they only come with one and not two.

http://www.stihlusa.com/chainsaws/MS460.html


----------



## forestryworks

Erock said:


> I like the dawgs you got on that saw. Damned if a new ms460 comes with them anymore. The one's they got on the new saws are worthless. and they only come with one and not two.



Those are the 4pt. heavy duty dogs from Madsen's.


----------



## madhatte

...aaand, another nod to my favorite vendor. OH! Hey! I sent them at least two new customers this week! 

(It's the least I can do to show my appreciation for their unparalleled customer service over the years)


----------



## FSburt

Here are a couple of pics of me and my uncle falling. My photo was taken in 2002 during my recert for C certifier card on the Tahoe Basin and my uncle's was taken in 1970 when he was logging up around Wishon/Dinkey on the Sierra NF cutting on some big Red Fir. His saw was a 051 Stihl. I guess cutting runs in the family even though I cut for the Govt. The other attachment i thought i would throw it in for a laugh at how women were supposed to act for their husbands back in 1955 its got some good one's in there. Enjoy


----------



## FSburt

pic of me posing by a punkin Sugar pine i had to clip due to fire in the top. It leaned up the hill (20 ft out)and had heavy limb weight the same way. The only open hole in the surrounding stand was 90 degrees off the lean (cross the hill). I was pushing the envelope with trying to get this tree to come around with out using a dutchman (had all the youngsters watching and I had to do as I taught them in class). So I challenged myself and gave her a go. Well after getting in the UC my assistant wanted to get in on the action so i let him cut up the compression side first and i would finish the BC by bringing it around to the tension side and send it down. Well as no luck would have it my assistant cut up too close to the holding wood and got the saw pinched now what. Well we send our best hiker back 3 miles to the truck to bring out the Homie 925 so we can finish up the back cut. Well when i finish up the giant starts coming around but due to the settling on the bar that occurred it broke early in the and missed the lay by about 20 degrees which does not sound bad but we made a hellva mess with widow makers all hung up and broken up trees that barely standing after that tree went through. Well what did i learn from that Leave more wood on the compression side to help in keeping the tree from settling any more on that side. I figured we added another 5 ft of lean at the top when that settling occurred. Oh well i am still here so alls well that ends well.


----------



## mdavlee

Here's your picture burt. Nice tree there.


----------



## joesawer

FSburt said:


> pic of me posing by a punkin Sugar pine i had to clip due to fire in the top. It leaned up the hill (20 ft out)and had heavy limb weight the same way. The only open hole in the surrounding stand was 90 degrees off the lean (cross the hill). I was pushing the envelope with trying to get this tree to come around with out using a dutchman (had all the youngsters watching and I had to do as I taught them in class). So I challenged myself and gave her a go. Well after getting in the UC my assistant wanted to get in on the action so i let him cut up the compression side first and i would finish the BC by bringing it around to the tension side and send it down. Well as no luck would have it my assistant cut up too close to the holding wood and got the saw pinched now what. Well we send our best hiker back 3 miles to the truck to bring out the Homie 925 so we can finish up the back cut. Well when i finish up the giant starts coming around but due to the settling on the bar that occurred it broke early in the and missed the lay by about 20 degrees which does not sound bad but we made a hellva mess with widow makers all hung up and broken up trees that barely standing after that tree went through. Well what did i learn from that Leave more wood on the compression side to help in keeping the tree from settling any more on that side. I figured we added another 5 ft of lean at the top when that settling occurred. Oh well i am still here so alls well that ends well.






I just wrote an deleted about six paragraphs. I am just feeling the effects of the first percoset I have ever taken, and decided that I should not try to post while I am feeling like this!:biggrinbounce2:
Any way great pics and thanks for providing a voice of sound reason and common sense!


----------



## RandyMac

joesawer said:


> I just wrote an deleted about six paragraphs. I am just feeling the effects of the first percoset I have ever taken, and decided that I should not try to post while I am feeling like this!:biggrinbounce2:
> Any way great pics and thanks for providing a voice of sound reason and common sense!



if not here, where else? I post while demented, you can post while enhanced.


----------



## joesawer

RandyMac said:


> if not here, where else? I post while demented, you can post while enhanced.



Lol I feel pretty good but I don't know if I would call it enhanced. I don't know if it was my writing or my reading but I could not understand it when I was done!


----------



## stihl sawing

joesawer said:


> I just wrote an deleted about six paragraphs. I am just feeling the effects of the first percoset I have ever taken, and decided that I should not try to post while I am feeling like this!:biggrinbounce2:
> Any way great pics and thanks for providing a voice of sound reason and common sense!


When they had me on Lorocets for back pain, It was a blast posting while i was taking them. Even more fun reading what i posted the next day.lol


----------



## joesawer

RandyMac said:


> if not here, where else? I post while demented, you can post while enhanced.



Hey Randy I have an old 550 Mac and a 250 Mac laying around and am thinking of getting the 550 running and using it for occasional amusement.
I know that it needs a gas cap vent and muffler cause that is what it needed when I put it down the last time.
I would also like to find a 42 inch bar for it.
Can you point me in the right direction for parts?


----------



## RandyMac

I might be able to help you with the cap, try the McCulloch thread for the muffler and general advice.


----------



## joesawer

RandyMac said:


> I might be able to help you with the cap, try the McCulloch thread for the muffler and general advice.



Thanks I will check it out.
I have that 250 which I think has a air leak and a 10-10 lightweight that I am pretty sure has an air leak and bad piston.
But that 550 should not take much to get back to life.


----------



## Greystoke

*My Brother from another Mother...Hell of a Timber Faller*

Just thought this vid deserved to be on here. He smoked that tree over in short order. 

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/2x7MXn5zuEw?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/2x7MXn5zuEw?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>


----------



## GASoline71

I could only dream of being that good!!! Great vid!!!

Love how he kept the saw up on RPM after the gun cut and went right in to the undercut. Lined them up perfect. One of the best vids I've seen in a long time.

That saw is a monster too... with a wicked sharp chain...  

Gary


----------



## Greystoke

GASoline71 said:


> I could only dream of being that good!!! Great vid!!!
> 
> Love how he kept the saw up on RPM after the gun cut and went right in to the undercut. Lined them up perfect. One of the best vids I've seen in a long time.
> 
> That saw is a monster too... with a wicked sharp chain...
> 
> Gary



Yeah, he is a high powered timber faller  We used to lay down a lot of wood double-jackin together. Every other guy that I double-jacked with, I always lost some production, cuz you spent a lot of time waiting...not the case with him and I...we knew each other well enough that we always knew where the other would be. I had a lot of fun partnering with him...we butted heads a lot too!


----------



## dancan

Great vid !
Thanks for posting that one and what Gary said !


----------



## cat-face timber

Great Video!

He sure knows what he is doing!


----------



## FSburt

Now there is a shining example of limiting exposure time under the tree, very efficient and smooth with no wasted motions and a saw that is a pure cutting a machine with very little effort needed to be expended by the faller to guide the saw. Just doggin in and letting the saw do all the work. 3 Mins for a tree pushing over 30" (guessin from the bar) that is some production falling there. Nice. Feel free to post more vids if you can.


----------



## GASoline71

Yep... no plumb-bobs... no protractors... no sissy bore cuts... just exceptional West Coast fallin' techniques and one hell of a fine saw!

Gary


----------



## cassandrasdaddy

*and*

that dog was smarter than many folks he kept his eyes on the tree


----------



## RPM

Awesome ... even the dog knows to look up! (ahhhh...Cassandrasdaddy u beat me to that on  )


----------



## slowp

The best ever!! I love it. I'd try and have my dog watch it to see that he isn't the only dog who works in the woods, sometimes. This makes up for 3 seasons of the Make Loggers Look Stupid show. 

Mind if I embed it on the treehugger site where they're talking about wilderness? 

Should I cock my hat before bucking? I think that's more of a guy thing, although my friend's mom said you should never wear a hat straight on, but always at an angle to look beautiful. Her mom knew a lot about that stuff. Apparently your brother does too! :wave:


----------



## mdavlee

Nice video there.


----------



## Metals406

I like your buddy Cody! Seems like he's a little bit country, and a little bit rock'n'roll!! 

:chainsawguy:


----------



## Greystoke

slowp said:


> Mind if I embed it on the treehugger site where they're talking about wilderness?
> 
> Should I cock my hat before bucking?



I am sure He would get a kick out of that! Embed away


----------



## Greystoke

Metals406 said:


> I like your buddy Cody! Seems like he's a little bit country, and a little bit rock'n'roll!!
> 
> :chainsawguy:



Actually, he is my Ex Wifes Brother, but we have always been close, and still are...I will be seeing him over New Years, and I will have to tell him about all the notoriety he is getting on here...he will get a kick out of it. I started trampin with him when I was 18...him and his Dad...still considered my Dad and Brother.


----------



## Metals406

tarzanstree said:


> Actually, he is my Ex Wifes Brother, but we have always been close, and still are...I will be seeing him over New Years, and I will have to tell him about all the notoriety he is getting on here...he will get a kick out of it. I started trampin with him when I was 18...him and his Dad...still considered my Dad and Brother.



Oh, that's the Ex-BIL you've talked about!! Seems like good people. Didn't you say he was asking you to go chop for a spell with him?


----------



## Jacob J.

It's fun to watch a cutter who is really good at what they do. Great video, and that 660 sounded real healthy too.


----------



## Greystoke

Metals406 said:


> Oh, that's the Ex-BIL you've talked about!! Seems like good people. Didn't you say he was asking you to go chop for a spell with him?



Yep. He just moved back to Idaho, and has a real good job with a prominent logger there.


----------



## stihl sawing

Awesome video, He is really good. Thanks for posting.


----------



## madhatte

It's like an advertisement for Stihl and Sugihara. Great economy of movement!


----------



## bitzer

Thanks for posting that Cody. Great clip. Just badass, no ####in around. I like the little grin he gives coming back on the under cut. Good Stuff!


----------



## FSburt

GASoline71 said:


> Yep... no plumb-bobs... no protractors... no sissy bore cuts... just exceptional West Coast fallin' techniques and one hell of a fine saw!
> 
> Gary



Said like a true west coast faller. Yea buddy.


----------



## Gologit

GASoline71 said:


> Yep... no plumb-bobs... no protractors... no sissy bore cuts... just exceptional West Coast fallin' techniques and one hell of a fine saw!
> 
> Gary



Yup. He did a fine job.


----------



## slowp

madhatte said:


> It's like an advertisement for Stihl and Sugihara. Great economy of movement!



Even the dog knew what to do. Ugly Dog looks like the dogs in some of the old Scandihoovian cowboy pictures--my ancestors. Daniel the Spaniel was one.


----------



## 056 kid

Thats how I like to knock em down, well ideally, I dont get them all as good as he did. Its a perfect example of how affective a good regular 1/3 30 or so degree face and a regular old back cut really is. . .


What makes his chain so bad ass? the drags couldnt be that low or he wouldnt have had such an easy time cleaning the face with the top of his tip.
Im guessing a good square grind along with green soft wood?


----------



## hammerlogging

Well I'd say he was pulling through a serious voume of wood through the cut. So all those factors: drags, probably full comp, sharp sharp, and a fabulously tuned saw

10 points for style. Thanks for sharing Cody.

Ahhh, softwood. beautiful.


----------



## banshee67

that dog must have a lot of experience ! lol
he was 100% focused on the top of the tree , thats awesome


----------



## Thorcw

Can I ask who ported that bad boy?


----------



## slowp

The video doesn't seem very popular on the treehugger site. Oh well, they don't know what they are missing.


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> The video doesn't seem very popular on the treehugger site. Oh well, they don't know what they are missing.



I have the site up now...where did you post it?


----------



## komatsuvarna

Had to come and watch the video again . Excellent stuff, Love watching them.


----------



## slowp

Full Moon Saloon. 

For some reason I had this urge to write a bit so put up a reply in the Stewardship under New Wilderness area in NE Washington (I think). Somebody was saying that as far as he was concerned, if loggers, miners, ski areas, and developers were put out of work, it would be a good thing. So, I wrote an essay about newcomers to our state. I used a crude example and my mom would be shocked...don't tell her.

Most of the people in that forum are not from here, but are immigrants. The annoying guy is from the east coast.


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> Full Moon Saloon.
> 
> For some reason I had this urge to write a bit so put up a reply in the Stewardship under New Wilderness area in NE Washington (I think). Somebody was saying that as far as he was concerned, if loggers, miners, ski areas, and developers were put out of work, it would be a good thing. So, I wrote an essay about newcomers to our state. I used a crude example and my mom would be shocked...don't tell her.
> 
> Most of the people in that forum are not from here, but are immigrants. The annoying guy is from the east coast.



Thanks.


----------



## joesawer

slowp said:


> Full Moon Saloon.
> 
> For some reason I had this urge to write a bit so put up a reply in the Stewardship under New Wilderness area in NE Washington (I think). Somebody was saying that as far as he was concerned, if loggers, miners, ski areas, and developers were put out of work, it would be a good thing. So, I wrote an essay about newcomers to our state. I used a crude example and my mom would be shocked...don't tell her.
> 
> Most of the people in that forum are not from here, but are immigrants. The annoying guy is from the east coast.





Lol How are they responding to your logic?


----------



## Meadow Beaver

tarzanstree said:


> Just thought this vid deserved to be on here. He smoked that tree over in short order.
> 
> <object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/2x7MXn5zuEw?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/2x7MXn5zuEw?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>



Pretty friggin' cool, tell Pat he did an awesome job. :chainsawguy:


----------



## GASoline71

*THAT*, is what modded saws are for!!!

Gary


----------



## slowp

joesawer said:


> Lol How are they responding to your logic?



Very few, who are natives of here, are complimentary. I believe I am on a lot of IGNORE lists, have been labeled (oh the horrors) a brown and accused of wanting to destroy the earth. Oh well. 

Meanwhile, they decry the state that the forest roads are in and complain about trees across the trails. They don't want to see any logging, even where it is on private ground, because it wrecks their view. 

They want wolves to return to our areas, but if you talk about sending a pack to live in Seattle, they get all huffy...they are metrosexuals. EEEEK.


----------



## Metals406

slowp said:


> Very few, who are natives of here, are complimentary. I believe I am on a lot of IGNORE lists, have been labeled (oh the horrors) a brown and accused of wanting to destroy the earth. Oh well.
> 
> Meanwhile, they decry the state that the forest roads are in and complain about trees across the trails. They don't want to see any logging, even where it is on private ground, because it wrecks their view.
> 
> They want wolves to return to our areas, but if you talk about sending a pack to live in Seattle, they get all huffy...they are metrosexuals. EEEEK.



Hey slowp! We've got extra wolves if you guys are hankering for some. . . We never wanted them anyway. One of my cousins friends was run off his elk kill by a pack this year. He shot one, and the rest of the pack followed them in their retreat. 

Lest the Greenies forget, wolves are super cuddly and soft -- just like on the cartoons.


----------



## Greystoke

Thorcw said:


> Can I ask who ported that bad boy?



I think he is having Wood's Logging Supply do most of his work now, but I could be wrong...I will see him on New Years and report back if I am wrong.


----------



## GASoline71

JJ shared this one with me... Another guy that is fun to watch... Marcel Levesque

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/bcqlvXA4QT0?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/bcqlvXA4QT0?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

That old Husqvarna 2100 he's got is a hotrod. 

Gary


----------



## Burvol

Cody, your old partner looks like he was a hoot to cut with, and I'm sure he is a top notch log cutter by the way he moves and does the drill.


----------



## Greystoke

Burvol said:


> Cody, your old partner looks like he was a hoot to cut with, and I'm sure he is a top notch log cutter by the way he moves and does the drill.



Yessir, he was....and yessir he is!


----------



## Tzed250

tarzanstree said:


> Just thought this vid deserved to be on here. He smoked that tree over in short order.
> 
> <object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/2x7MXn5zuEw?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/2x7MXn5zuEw?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>




Competent and with confidence....perfect...



BTW....Gary is right....that chain is _sick_ sharp!!!


.



GASoline71 said:


> JJ shared this one with me... Another guy that is fun to watch... Marcel Levesque
> 
> <object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/bcqlvXA4QT0?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/bcqlvXA4QT0?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>
> 
> That old Husqvarna 2100 he's got is a hotrod.
> 
> Gary




The haunting sound of the saw off in the distance is the stuff dreams are made of....thanks Gary...


.


----------



## Greystoke

GASoline71 said:


> JJ shared this one with me... Another guy that is fun to watch... Marcel Levesque
> 
> That old Husqvarna 2100 he's got is a hotrod.
> 
> Gary



I love the sound of those old 2100's when they are Idling. I wish I would have hung on to mine...It was my backup when I was 18...backup for a 288, and I would dread my saw breaking down when I was cutting in a #### patch! Which was quite often because I was "the kid".


----------



## forestryworks

GASoline71 said:


> JJ shared this one with me... Another guy that is fun to watch... Marcel Levesque
> 
> <object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/bcqlvXA4QT0?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/bcqlvXA4QT0?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>
> 
> That old Husqvarna 2100 he's got is a hotrod.
> 
> Gary



That video is a great example of why you carry a falling axe to the woods and not a sissy hammer!


----------



## Greystoke

forestryworks said:


> That video is a great example of why you carry a falling axe to the woods and not a sissy hammer!



I was not too impressed with his axe...especially for being in that big a wood! 

Here is what I carry...6 pound council with 36" handle:







You can move some wedges in some big wood with one of those...they really move in smaller timber


----------



## fmaglin

forestryworks said:


> That video is a great example of why you carry a falling axe to the woods and not a sissy hammer!


Right on!!!


----------



## Thorcw

Whats the purpose on the block of wood in the facecut?


----------



## Metals406

Thorcw said:


> Whats the purpose on the block of wood in the facecut?



To encourage the tree to kick the opposite direction of where you placed the pie piece. The face would close on that piece first, and roll the other way. Make sense?


----------



## Burvol

tarzanstree said:


> I was not too impressed with his axe...especially for being in that big a wood!
> 
> Here is what I carry...6 pound council with 36" handle:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can move some wedges in some big wood with one of those...they really move in smaller timber



Ya buddy, right there with ya, except I don't have the "rib breaker" handle lol. Kinda like the saw, if it's too much to wield, then you be in the wrong business


----------



## slowp

*Another One*

A limby tree. For some reason, I was expecting him to vault off at the end, but he didn't. Probably a good thing too. 

<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/pqVyfNXeku8?version=3"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/pqVyfNXeku8?version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></object>


----------



## Thorcw

So what happened to marcel levesque?


----------



## forestryworks

Thorcw said:


> So what happened to marcel levesque?



I read he cut for 40 years. Pretty sure he's retired. That's a hell of a time to be on a saw and make stumps.


----------



## dancan

forestryworks said:


> That video is a great example of why you carry a falling axe to the woods and not a sissy hammer!





tarzanstree said:


> I was not too impressed with his axe...especially for being in that big a wood!
> 
> Here is what I carry...6 pound council with 36" handle:
> 
> You can move some wedges in some big wood with one of those...they really move in smaller timber



Remember to keep things in perspective , your truck is a few yards from the workplace , he's in deep carrying all his service equipment on his harness so a 2 or 3lbs axe with a 26" handle would be the same as the axe that I carry all day .
When I'm doing single large trees my 8lb splitting axe with a 36" straight handle is my wedge driver of choice similar to yours .


----------



## Burvol

forestryworks said:


> I read he cut for 40 years. Pretty sure he's retired. That's a hell of a time to be on a saw and make stumps.



There is few guys like that in the PNW, in nooks and crannys here and there, quietly living out the rest of their days. I meet one every once in a while then find out who they were, or that they worked with someone in my family. Yes, a long career, no doubt. So many deserve credit that are never pictured or mentioned here. I have known some of them who never claimed any of the glory to themseleves, but gave it back to the good Lord...acknowlegding the gift they possesed, and how fast it can be taken away.


----------



## Greystoke

> Burvol said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ya buddy, right there with ya, except I don't have the "rib breaker" handle lol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hate that handle! First, and last one I will ever try...always used hickory, and thought I would try one...never again!
Click to expand...


----------



## Greystoke

dancan said:


> Remember to keep things in perspective , your truck is a few yards from the workplace , he's in deep carrying all his service equipment on his harness so a 2 or 3lbs axe with a 26" handle would be the same as the axe that I carry all day .
> When I'm doing single large trees my 8lb splitting axe with a 36" straight handle is my wedge driver of choice similar to yours .




I do speak from experience...as I have only been doing residential tree work since 2006. I spent 13 years trampin around from the swamps of Florida to Southeast AK, most time spent on Pacific Coast, falling timber for a Helicopter, so usually was a fair distance from the pickup, but I never went there without my fallin axe....packed one for miles and miles....


----------



## Gologit

forestryworks said:


> ... cut for 40 years. That's a hell of a time to be on a saw and make stumps.



Ain't that the truth.


----------



## Jacob J.

Thorcw said:


> Whats the purpose on the block of wood in the facecut?





Metals406 said:


> To encourage the tree to kick the opposite direction of where you placed the pie piece. The face would close on that piece first, and roll the other way. Make sense?



My old man called that "cheese blocking".


----------



## dancan

tarzanstree said:


> I do speak from experience...I never went there without my fallin axe....packed one for miles and miles....



I seen your picture . If I had arms like that 6lbs and all the gear all day would be a walk in the park (so 3lbs it is for me )   LOL !


----------



## ChainsawmanXX

When falling i use my Fiskars Axe. That thing will never break =D I think its got a good driving to it as well.


----------



## slowp

Orange painted handles are popular around here. 

The colors in this photo are bad. The woods were dark so I had to tweak the photo so things would show up. I think the dad, swinging the axe, got bored so wandered down to help swing the tree around. It wanted to hit the road, they wanted it towards the skid trail. It went in the correct direction. Small trees can be a pain in a thinning.






Another faller went for the natural look handle, but had tape on it at inch? increments. I packed it for him while he was cutting hazard trees along a road. It wasn't light.


----------



## Greystoke

slowp said:


> Orange painted handles are popular around here.
> 
> The colors in this photo are bad. The woods were dark so I had to tweak the photo so things would show up. I think the dad, swinging the axe, got bored so wandered down to help swing the tree around. It wanted to hit the road, they wanted it towards the skid trail. It went in the correct direction. Small trees can be a pain in a thinning.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another faller went for the natural look handle, but had tape on it at inch? increments. I packed it for him while he was cutting hazard trees along a road. It wasn't light.



I used to always paint my handles...just for that stray tree once in a while that tops out on top of your axe...it is a lot easier to see a neon orange handle under a bunch of brush...then again, it is a lot easier to see it so that you don't gun a tree at it too


----------



## slowp

I wish everything I carry around in the woods was painted either bright orange, fluorescent Pink, or bright turquoise/teal. When something falls out, it can take a while to find it! Like staple hammers. In blowdown. On steep ground. 

After crawling through a patch of blowdown, then reaching for something and finding it isn't there, it is hard to keep up spirits when you have to backtrack and hunt for something that is GRAY. Messes with productiveness and morale!

Ooops, back to falling. Except you can't fall here unless the staple hammer is fastening those boundary tags to trees.


----------



## Cedarkerf

Ive heard orange is the best color, Ive heard blue is the best Ive heard broken up patterns are best so I tried this. It is very visible even in fallen red/orange maple leaves.


----------



## slowp

That pattern might be hard to deal with on a day with a hangover....


----------



## Metals406

Cedarkerf said:


> Ive heard orange is the best color, Ive heard blue is the best Ive heard broken up patterns are best so I tried this. It is very visible even in fallen red/orange maple leaves.



I like it!!


----------



## Meadow Beaver

Cedarkerf said:


> Ive heard orange is the best color, Ive heard blue is the best Ive heard broken up patterns are best so I tried this. It is very visible even in fallen red/orange maple leaves.



I did something similar, except I wrapped the whole handle in red/black stripes.


----------



## Cedarkerf

slowp said:


> That pattern might be hard to deal with on a day with a hangover....


Guess its a good thing Im 100% sober 100% of the time :biggrinbounce2:


----------



## FSburt

Trouper's are pretty strong axe's before the jomoke cut mine in half it was the tightest axe head I have used never loosened up once. Not sure what they do different but sure works compared to the ones in the past.


----------



## coastalfaller

Thorcw said:


> So what happened to marcel levesque?



I worked with him for a few years. He's a helluva good guy. Retired now. He made and sold a movie in the 80's called "A Toast to the Loggers" Great flick if you can find a copy!


----------



## coastalfaller

tarzanstree said:


> I used to always paint my handles...just for that stray tree once in a while that tops out on top of your axe...it is a lot easier to see a neon orange handle under a bunch of brush...then again, it is a lot easier to see it so that you don't gun a tree at it too



Yep!


----------



## coastalfaller

*No pics, just a story!*

No pics for this one, but a story I was reminded of today when talking to an old friend. Good for a laugh, so thought I'd share!

My buddy was falling right of way for a setting a few years back. He was used to working with a particular grade hoe operator for years. The regular guy had to go work a different heading so a new guy was brought on. No big deal. So the first day my buddy and his partner go to work, on their way out they come across the new operator pioneering behind them. Looks good, but no walk logs laid out for them. It's fall and raining hard on the coast, things can get pretty soupy on the freshly disturbed r/w and walk logs are a necessity for some areas.

No problem, it's the guys first day, my buddy cuts him some slack and politely asks him to leave some walk logs for them when he's done for the day. The operator apologizes profusely and promises to do it. 

Next day they show up, no walk logs. Quick reminder to the operator on their way by and off to work. End of the day, still no walk logs. Now my buddy is starting to get a bit irritated, but keeps his cool. Asks again for walk logs, same answer. Sorry forgot about it! Will do it on my way out tonight!

Third day, no walk logs for the walk in. By this time the operator has pioneered quite a ways in now and the rest of the grade crew hasn't made it over to this heading yet to surface the road so it's getting to be quite the walk in deep muck. My buddy stops and talks again to the operator on their way by. Same anwer yet again! 

End of the day they come out, and yep, you guessed it! No walk logs! My buddy is seething now! Smoke coming out of his ears and from under his hard hat. Doesn't say a thing, slogs past the operator and out to the crummies. He grabs a shovel and walks out to the operators crummy. He opens the windows and proceeds to fill the crummy up to the dashboard with the same sloppy muck they've been walking through! Right to window level! 

Funny thing! Next day there was a nice walk log trail right to the f&b!


----------



## mdavlee

That's funny there. :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## schmuck.k

funny stuf right there


----------



## Tzed250

.


Similiar to stories I have heard about machine tool operators not cleaning a machine after a job, then getting their toolbox filled with chips...


.


----------



## Greystoke

:hmm3grin2orange:

That was a good one Jordan! A guy has gotta take extreme measures sometimes to get through a thick skull


----------



## Greenwedge

slowp said:


> A limby tree. For some reason, I was expecting him to vault off at the end, but he didn't. Probably a good thing too.
> 
> <object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/pqVyfNXeku8?version=3"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/pqVyfNXeku8?version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></object>



I hate to admit it Cody, but vaulting is starting to hurt......must have somthing to do with miles for I still look like I'm 20. Ha


----------



## slowp

Greenwedge said:


> I hate to admit it Cody, but vaulting is starting to hurt......must have somthing to do with miles for I still look like I'm 20. Ha



Is Ugly Hound still alive? I'm trying to use him/her as a role model for my lazy boy, who is snoring away in his bed at this late hour....and tries to brush off his dog pack, whines so much I end up emptying his pack and putting all the gear in my pack...............and so on.


----------



## Greenwedge

Yes he is, and hopfully for a long time to come. He is a little over 5 years old.


----------



## Greenwedge

*Trying to reply to all the feed back on the video. New to this site.*

Don't know if I'm doing this right but I'm trying to reply to all the feedback to the vid that Cody posted in one spot with some added BS, so here is a mouthful. Thank you for the complements and the ravings on Ugly dog. He is my best pard. Yeah, the saw was modded by woods in Cedro. I did a quite a bit to it though. I advanced the timing, went over all of there port work with a non-aggressive burr and smoothed the heck out of everything. Took the exhaust port out a bunch more on the cylinder. Made 5 fuel oxidizer ditch's in the intake. Completely removed the box inside the muffler so I could fit a pipe in it that I attached to the faceplate. You can not have much pipe sticking out of your saw if you are falling with it so I had the Idea to start my pipe on the inside. It took me forever to get the back pressure right, and must have put 10 different sized pipes on it before I got it right. I would tell you the exact sizes, but then I would take the fun out of it for you. All I will say is that you need to use fittings that will withstand the heat, make your first pipe big, then neck it down with a smaller fitting and figure out how to do it in a three inch space, and don't leave more that a 1/4 inch of pipe sticking out of your face plate, for it will hit the tree when you are falling and bucking and break your muffler off where it bolts to the cylinder. When you take the box out completely it weakens the muffler where it bolts on. My chains?........lots and lots of time spent in the saw shop when I should have been playing with my kids. The best advice I can give is when you work around a guy that has a chain that is working better that yours don't let foolish pride deprive you of advancing your chain's performance. Admit to yourself that there chain is better, and ask allot of questions, and if he is nice enough to let you have one of his runouts study the hell out of it. Break a left and a right cutter off and investigate every aspect, from the sideplate angle to the top plate angle. Most people do not realize the important roll that the sideplate plays in the performance of a chain, and it is actually more critical that any other part of the chain. Although I love Madsen's, don't put too much stock in there chain articles. They do get quite a bit of stuff right, but they do not have a guy in the brush on the payroll. They take information that they deem credible from there sources in the brush and compile it in there yearly catalog. I got one heck of a kick out of there article on the applications of full comp, semi, and full skip chain and the cutting speeds on various saws and bar lengths. Wasted words. No matter what wood you are cutting, saw you are running, or length bar you are using a properly ground and maintained full comp chain will cut faster, smoother, and longer that a full or semi skip chain. You just have to put the time in to it. I never did get good at grinding chain until I understood what every part of the chain did, and realized that I was not Ty Murray with a chainsaw, which sadly was only a few years back. lol.....Holy smokes that was a mouthful....but wait....theres more. lol. Really though, how I got my rigging to working good, and my undercuts to falling out like they should, is realizing that every cutter has something to offer that will make me better. Sometimes it's what not to do, but most cutters in the brush, you will find do something with a chainsaw better that you do, and if your the best cutter in the brush it's real damn hard to figure just what that is. This retarded my progression for years. I probably should have posted this elsewhere, but am new to this site. I figured with the notoriety my brother from another mother created for me on here that I probably should participate.


----------



## mdavlee

Welcome over here. If you've got more videos please post them.


----------



## Gologit

Greenwedge said:


> Don't know if I'm doing this right but I'm trying to reply to all the feedback to the vid that Cody posted in one spot with some added BS, so here is a mouthful. Thank you for the complements and the ravings on Ugly dog. He is my best pard. Yeah, the saw was modded by woods in Cedro. I did a quite a bit to it though. I advanced the timing, went over all of there port work with a non-aggressive burr and smoothed the heck out of everything. Took the exhaust port out a bunch more on the cylinder. Made 5 fuel oxidizer ditch's in the intake. Completely removed the box inside the muffler so I could fit a pipe in it that I attached to the faceplate. You can not have much pipe sticking out of your saw if you are falling with it so I had the Idea to start my pipe on the inside. It took me forever to get the back pressure right, and must have put 10 different sized pipes on it before I got it right. I would tell you the exact sizes, but then I would take the fun out of it for you. All I will say is that you need to use fittings that will withstand the heat, make your first pipe big, then neck it down with a smaller fitting and figure out how to do it in a three inch space, and don't leave more that a 1/4 inch of pipe sticking out of your face plate, for it will hit the tree when you are falling and bucking and break your muffler off where it bolts to the cylinder. When you take the box out completely it weakens the muffler where it bolts on. My chains?........lots and lots of time spent in the saw shop when I should have been playing with my kids. The best advice I can give is when you work around a guy that has a chain that is working better that yours don't let foolish pride deprive you of advancing your chain's performance. Admit to yourself that there chain is better, and ask allot of questions, and if he is nice enough to let you have one of his runouts study the hell out of it. Break a left and a right cutter off and investigate every aspect, from the sideplate angle to the top plate angle. Most people do not realize the important roll that the sideplate plays in the performance of a chain, and it is actually more critical that any other part of the chain. Although I love Madsen's, don't put too much stock in there chain articles. They do get quite a bit of stuff right, but they do not have a guy in the brush on the payroll. They take information that they deem credible from there sources in the brush and compile it in there yearly catalog. I got one heck of a kick out of there article on the applications of full comp, semi, and full skip chain and the cutting speeds on various saws and bar lengths. Wasted words. No matter what wood you are cutting, saw you are running, or length bar you are using a properly ground and maintained full comp chain will cut faster, smoother, and longer that a full or semi skip chain. You just have to put the time in to it. I never did get good at grinding chain until I understood what every part of the chain did, and realized that I was not Ty Murray with a chainsaw, which sadly was only a few years back. lol.....Holy smokes that was a mouthful....but wait....theres more. lol. Really though, how I got my rigging to working good, and my undercuts to falling out like they should, is realizing that every cutter has something to offer that will make me better. Sometimes it's what not to do, but most cutters in the brush, you will find do something with a chainsaw better that you do, and if your the best cutter in the brush it's real damn hard to figure just what that is. This retarded my progression for years. I probably should have posted this elsewhere, but am new to this site. I figured with the notoriety my brother from another mother created for me on here that I probably should participate.



Well said.


----------



## Greystoke

*Hey Bro!*

It's a good thing that you were partnered up with me all those years, so you could pick up all my wise tricks ay?  Just kiddin! I sure am glad to see you on here, and I am sure all the other regulars on here are glad as well to have you share some wisdom. I want that chainsaw all taken apart with all modded parts layin on a bench so I can photograph them when I get there!


----------



## Metals406

Greenwedge said:


> Don't know if I'm doing this right but I'm trying to reply to all the feedback to the vid that Cody posted in one spot with some added BS, so here is a mouthful. Thank you for the complements and the ravings on Ugly dog. He is my best pard. Yeah, the saw was modded by woods in Cedro. I did a quite a bit to it though. I advanced the timing, went over all of there port work with a non-aggressive burr and smoothed the heck out of everything. Took the exhaust port out a bunch more on the cylinder. Made 5 fuel oxidizer ditch's in the intake. Completely removed the box inside the muffler so I could fit a pipe in it that I attached to the faceplate. You can not have much pipe sticking out of your saw if you are falling with it so I had the Idea to start my pipe on the inside. It took me forever to get the back pressure right, and must have put 10 different sized pipes on it before I got it right. I would tell you the exact sizes, but then I would take the fun out of it for you. All I will say is that you need to use fittings that will withstand the heat, make your first pipe big, then neck it down with a smaller fitting and figure out how to do it in a three inch space, and don't leave more that a 1/4 inch of pipe sticking out of your face plate, for it will hit the tree when you are falling and bucking and break your muffler off where it bolts to the cylinder. When you take the box out completely it weakens the muffler where it bolts on. My chains?........lots and lots of time spent in the saw shop when I should have been playing with my kids. The best advice I can give is when you work around a guy that has a chain that is working better that yours don't let foolish pride deprive you of advancing your chain's performance. Admit to yourself that there chain is better, and ask allot of questions, and if he is nice enough to let you have one of his runouts study the hell out of it. Break a left and a right cutter off and investigate every aspect, from the sideplate angle to the top plate angle. Most people do not realize the important roll that the sideplate plays in the performance of a chain, and it is actually more critical that any other part of the chain. Although I love Madsen's, don't put too much stock in there chain articles. They do get quite a bit of stuff right, but they do not have a guy in the brush on the payroll. They take information that they deem credible from there sources in the brush and compile it in there yearly catalog. I got one heck of a kick out of there article on the applications of full comp, semi, and full skip chain and the cutting speeds on various saws and bar lengths. Wasted words. No matter what wood you are cutting, saw you are running, or length bar you are using a properly ground and maintained full comp chain will cut faster, smoother, and longer that a full or semi skip chain. You just have to put the time in to it. I never did get good at grinding chain until I understood what every part of the chain did, and realized that I was not Ty Murray with a chainsaw, which sadly was only a few years back. lol.....Holy smokes that was a mouthful....but wait....theres more. lol. Really though, how I got my rigging to working good, and my undercuts to falling out like they should, is realizing that every cutter has something to offer that will make me better. Sometimes it's what not to do, but most cutters in the brush, you will find do something with a chainsaw better that you do, and if your the best cutter in the brush it's real damn hard to figure just what that is. This retarded my progression for years. I probably should have posted this elsewhere, but am new to this site. I figured with the notoriety my brother from another mother created for me on here that I probably should participate.



I've heard a lot about you from Cody (mostly good ). . . Welcome to Arboristsite!

Love your voice BTW! LOL

Very old school sounding, like a Bing Crosby, or Dean Martin.


----------



## slowp

I made my fellow "B" Buckers watch the video yesterday. Now when we have our next after a wind day of opening roads, we'll all be seriously cocking our hardhats!:biggrinbounce2:


----------



## Greenwedge

slowp said:


> I made my fellow "B" Buckers watch the video yesterday. Now when we have our next after a wind day of opening roads, we'll all be seriously cocking our hardhats!:biggrinbounce2:



Yes Slowp.....One cannot forget to Cock his hat. LOL. I learned the hat Cock from my old man. You never see that guy with his hat on straight!


----------



## Greenwedge

dancan said:


> I seen your picture . If I had arms like that 6lbs and all the gear all day would be a walk in the park (so 3lbs it is for me )   LOL !
> 
> 
> [
> 
> His arms got so big from packing around my saw gas. LOL.....and you though I was going to say it was from all the time he spent in logging camps away from the woman folk. Ha!:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Greenwedge

tarzanstree said:


> It's a good thing that you were partnered up with me all those years, so you could pick up all my wise tricks ay?  Just kiddin! I sure am glad to see you on here, and I am sure all the other regulars on here are glad as well to have you share some wisdom. I want that chainsaw all taken apart with all modded parts layin on a bench so I can photograph them when I get there!



I know you were kidding, but joking aside, working with you did make me a better hand. You picked up some crazy sick tricks from your CHI Jeff Revis days that I got to put in my warbag. We had allot of good times. I will never forget all that money we made on that death march of a hike on pow. Forget the name, but right there where the road forks to go to eather lab bay thorne bay, or craig. It will come to me in a minute.....thorne bay side of big salt. Anyhow, that was fun. We already had $100.00 made by the time most of em got to there saws. Nice friggin wood too.


----------



## Greenwedge

slowp said:


> The best ever!! I love it. I'd try and have my dog watch it to see that he isn't the only dog who works in the woods, sometimes. This makes up for 3 seasons of the Make Loggers Look Stupid show.
> 
> Mind if I embed it on the treehugger site where they're talking about wilderness?
> 
> Should I cock my hat before bucking? I think that's more of a guy thing, although my friend's mom said you should never wear a hat straight on, but always at an angle to look beautiful. Her mom knew a lot about that stuff. Apparently your brother does too! :wave:



LOL.....That's what my Momma say's too! I have to wear my hat straight when I'm working with Cody though. If I cock it at a rakish angle I'm just too darn pretty for him and he cant keep his mind on his business and starts hitting stumps and slabbing bucks and the what not! Ha.


----------



## Greystoke

Greenwedge said:


> Yes Slowp.....One cannot forget to Cock his hat. LOL. I learned the hat Cock from my old man. You never see that guy with his hat on straight!



I concur!



> His arms got so big from packing around my saw gas. LOL.....and you though I was going to say it was from all the time he spent in logging camps away from the woman folk. Ha!:hmm3grin2orange



I don't concur! It was from all those extra trips packin my powersaw between my strip and yours to come cut you out 



Greenwedge said:


> I know you were kidding, but joking aside, working with you did make me a better hand. You picked up some crazy sick tricks from your CHI Jeff Revis days that I got to put in my warbag. We had allot of good times. I will never forget all that money we made on that death march of a hike on pow. Forget the name, but right there where the road forks to go to eather lab bay thorne bay, or craig. It will come to me in a minute.....thorne bay side of big salt. Anyhow, that was fun. We already had $100.00 made by the time most of em got to there saws. Nice friggin wood too.



Working together made us both better hands! I picked up a lot from you too. Your gung ho attitude was good for me sometimes! Fun times and I miss em  I remember the job, where we raced in every day and all the older guys would shake their heads as we passed em...it is a wonder we didn't get hurt on the way in or out! That is also where we got very proficient at double jackin too. Also the job where we were jawin a little at fuel-up time and I was not payin attention and took a swig of saw gas :monkey: only time I have ever done that and you got to witness it. Remember the day when we were not so gung ho for 3-D, and we spent the whole day seein how many ribbons we could break from the road with rocks? No money made that day, but it sure was fun! I could tell stories like this all day. Anyhow, Pat is a great addition to this forum and he will be good for everyone on here to try to match wits with...He not only gets his hat cocking from "Ol Dad", but his joking nature too!


----------



## Greystoke

Greenwedge said:


> LOL.....That's what my Momma say's too! I have to wear my hat straight when I'm working with Cody though. If I cock it at a rakish angle I'm just too darn pretty for him and he cant keep his mind on his business and starts hitting stumps and slabbing bucks and the what not! Ha.



There is that joking nature! That must be what you were doin the day I took a swig of saw gas?


----------



## Metals406

Hey Cody? You gonna take 12 over to see Pat? If I get the bid on this job, I would have to deliver it to to Lewiston. Figured I'd swing through and see you, maybe introduce myself to Pat in Orifino, then hit Deary to see Jason?

Middle of Jan is delivery date. . . You gonna be around the house then?


----------



## RandyMac

So, Cody, do you prefer 50 to 1 or a thcker mix?


----------



## Metals406

RandyMac said:


> So, Cody, do you prefer 50 to 1 or a thcker mix?



From what I hear Randy, Cody's ratio is 25 parts IPA beer to 75 parts whiskey! :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## RandyMac

Metals406 said:


> From what I hear Randy, Cody's ratio is 25 parts IPA beer to 75 parts whiskey! :hmm3grin2orange:



That explains it.


----------



## forestryworks

Metals406 said:


> From what I hear Randy, Cody's ratio is 25 parts IPA beer to 75 parts whiskey! :hmm3grin2orange:



Don't forget the Arrogant Bastard!


----------



## Greenwedge

Metals406 said:


> From what I hear Randy, Cody's ratio is 25 parts IPA beer to 75 parts whiskey! :hmm3grin2orange:



Nate, Double Super Funny! I'll tell you what's not funny.....His ratio when he was cutting timber near San Francisco. I beleive it was 12 1/5% vicodine, 12 1/5% Crown Royal, and 75%........... well, I better let you figure that out........dont want to get in trouble my first day....LOL


----------



## Rounder

Metals406 said:


> From what I hear Randy, Cody's ratio is 25 parts IPA beer to 75 parts whiskey! :hmm3grin2orange:



Yessir, works well in this weather.....had to run back home with my tail between my legs today though - Sam


----------



## FSburt

Welcome to the site Cody. Your initial post rang some familiar bells especially the being humble and not thinking your the greatest cutter since sliced bread and learning from others. My feeling is this job is one of utilizing every technique you have learned to expend the least amount of energy( which is still alot on some trees) to punch these trees over. Look forward to your stories.


----------



## Greystoke

Metals406 said:


> From what I hear Randy, Cody's ratio is 25 parts IPA beer to 75 parts whiskey! :hmm3grin2orange:



That's about right pard! You have me figgered  Would love to see ya...we will be seeing Pat from the evening of the 30th to the 1'st. Let me know if you are coming here before or after that and hopefully we can meet up.


----------



## Greenwedge

FSburt said:


> Welcome to the site Cody. Your initial post rang some familiar bells especially the being humble and not thinking your the greatest cutter since sliced bread and learning from others. My feeling is this job is one of utilizing every technique you have learned to expend the least amount of energy( which is still allot on some trees) to punch these trees over. Look forward to your stories.



Thank you for the welcome. This site is pretty darn neat. I agree with you 100% It seems that all up and coming cutters go through the sliced bread syndrome. Some cases are worse than others, but it seems to be a common trait. I guess you have to have a bit of an ego to even want to take on a job that is so inherently hazardous, strenuous, and unpredictable, but unfortunately there are those that choose to be shaded by there own ignorance from the light of sliced bread son of a bucks like me! LOL! I hope you know I'm kidding.....I couldn't't resist!!! Ha. My name is Pat by the way. I only go by Cody when I'm robbing banks or stealing cars.


----------



## Meadow Beaver

Greenwedge said:


> Thank you for the welcome. This site is pretty darn neat. I agree with you 100% It seems that all up and coming cutters go through the sliced bread syndrome. Some cases are worse than others, but it seems to be a common trait. I guess you have to have a bit of an ego to even want to take on a job that is so inherently hazardous, strenuous, and unpredictable, but unfortunately there are those that choose to be shaded by there own ignorance from the light of sliced bread son of a bucks like me! LOL! I hope you know I'm kidding.....I couldn't't resist!!! Ha. My name is Pat by the way. *I only go by Cody when **I'm robbing banks or stealing cars*.



And when your doing hack job port jobs? hahahahaha :greenchainsaw:


----------



## RandyMac

I'm glad to meet you Pat, any friend of Cody's, is a friend of mine.

So, Pat, tell us something about Cody, that he doen't want us to hear.


----------



## Metals406

Greenwedge said:


> Nate, Double Super Funny! I'll tell you what's not funny.....His ratio when he was cutting timber near San Francisco. I beleive it was 12 1/5% vicodine, 12 1/5% Crown Royal, and 75%........... well, I better let you figure that out........dont want to get in trouble my first day....LOL



And all that before he really let his hair down eh? :hmm3grin2orange:



mtsamloggit said:


> Yessir, works well in this weather.....had to run back home with my tail between my legs today though - Sam



What happened today Sam?


----------



## Rounder

Metals406 said:


> And all that before he really let his hair down eh? :hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> 
> 
> What happened today Sam?



Been workin up Cold Creek above St. Ignatious (not kidding about the drainage name). Not a good time of the year to be working up Cold Creek....it's cold up there. We were gonna come home today anyways....decided a half day was good enough. Didn't get above zero the past three days up there....sleeping in my car (and for the past three weeks).

Cold sawing for sure, looking forward to some warm holidays at home.

Happy Holidays to all of you - Sam


----------



## Burvol

*Voice of reason.. Full comp*



Greenwedge said:


> Don't know if I'm doing this right but I'm trying to reply to all the feedback to the vid that Cody posted in one spot with some added BS, so here is a mouthful. Thank you for the complements and the ravings on Ugly dog. He is my best pard. Yeah, the saw was modded by woods in Cedro. I did a quite a bit to it though. I advanced the timing, went over all of there port work with a non-aggressive burr and smoothed the heck out of everything. Took the exhaust port out a bunch more on the cylinder. Made 5 fuel oxidizer ditch's in the intake. Completely removed the box inside the muffler so I could fit a pipe in it that I attached to the faceplate. You can not have much pipe sticking out of your saw if you are falling with it so I had the Idea to start my pipe on the inside. It took me forever to get the back pressure right, and must have put 10 different sized pipes on it before I got it right. I would tell you the exact sizes, but then I would take the fun out of it for you. All I will say is that you need to use fittings that will withstand the heat, make your first pipe big, then neck it down with a smaller fitting and figure out how to do it in a three inch space, and don't leave more that a 1/4 inch of pipe sticking out of your face plate, for it will hit the tree when you are falling and bucking and break your muffler off where it bolts to the cylinder. When you take the box out completely it weakens the muffler where it bolts on. My chains?........lots and lots of time spent in the saw shop when I should have been playing with my kids. The best advice I can give is when you work around a guy that has a chain that is working better that yours don't let foolish pride deprive you of advancing your chain's performance. Admit to yourself that there chain is better, and ask allot of questions, and if he is nice enough to let you have one of his runouts study the hell out of it. Break a left and a right cutter off and investigate every aspect, from the sideplate angle to the top plate angle. Most people do not realize the important roll that the sideplate plays in the performance of a chain, and it is actually more critical that any other part of the chain. Although I love Madsen's, don't put too much stock in there chain articles. They do get quite a bit of stuff right, but they do not have a guy in the brush on the payroll. They take information that they deem credible from there sources in the brush and compile it in there yearly catalog. I got one heck of a kick out of there article on the applications of full comp, semi, and full skip chain and the cutting speeds on various saws and bar lengths. Wasted words. No matter what wood you are cutting, saw you are running, or length bar you are using a properly ground and maintained full comp chain will cut faster, smoother, and longer that a full or semi skip chain. You just have to put the time in to it. I never did get good at grinding chain until I understood what every part of the chain did, and realized that I was not Ty Murray with a chainsaw, which sadly was only a few years back. lol.....Holy smokes that was a mouthful....but wait....theres more. lol. Really though, how I got my rigging to working good, and my undercuts to falling out like they should, is realizing that every cutter has something to offer that will make me better. Sometimes it's what not to do, but most cutters in the brush, you will find do something with a chainsaw better that you do, and if your the best cutter in the brush it's real damn hard to figure just what that is. This retarded my progression for years. I probably should have posted this elsewhere, but am new to this site. I figured with the notoriety my brother from another mother created for me on here that I probably should participate.



I'm glad you came here. The regulars in this particular thread are a handful, we need more. You might end up being the ring leader of the #### sligning' LOL. You are right on the money with full comp, I could of swore I was talking to the wall for years here. Half cocked, crazy, maybe spit in your eye, hell who knows. Right on, can't hold back your personality on camera. Let er' hang out there lol. Just gets a guy exicted, the way it should be out there. Love it.


----------



## Highclimber OR

Very refreshing to see the Real McCoy ya those type have paid their dues and then some. Ok I gotta post some of my fam too I mean it is Christmas and all.


----------



## Greenwedge

RandyMac said:


> I'm glad to meet you Pat, any friend of Cody's, is a friend of mine.
> 
> So, Pat, tell us something about Cody, that he doen't want us to hear.



Randy, I would love to, but unfortunately the guy has nothing to hide! He is the most open guy I know. He ain't afraid to show you the spots on his liver! I think his name should have been spelled Koti. King of tomuch information. Ha.


----------



## ChipMonger

Greenwedge-

Hell of a video and your a hell of a cutter. If you have anymore videos post em' up! Im not a "regular poster" to the logging forum, but learn a whole lot from the guys in here weather they know it or not. I look forward to learning from you as well. Do you ever cut any hard woods like oak, walnut, hickory etc? Keep the wood falling and be safe...when you can:hmm3grin2orange: thanks for joining AS.


----------



## Cedarkerf

Burvol said:


> I'm glad you came here. The regulars in this particular thread are a handful, we need more. You might end up being the ring leader of the #### sligning' LOL. You are right on the money with full comp, I could of swore I was talking to the wall for years here. Half cocked, crazy, maybe spit in your eye, hell who knows. Right on, can't hold back your personality on camera. Let er' hang out there lol. Just gets a guy exicted, the way it should be out there. Love it.



I was one of those walls yup full comp kicks thanks to Jesse. 

Welcome to the site Pat ya seem like a highly spirited individual. Add some good fun


----------



## Metals406

mtsamloggit said:


> Been workin up Cold Creek above St. Ignatious (not kidding about the drainage name). Not a good time of the year to be working up Cold Creek....it's cold up there. We were gonna come home today anyways....decided a half day was good enough. Didn't get above zero the past three days up there....sleeping in my car (and for the past three weeks).
> 
> Cold sawing for sure, looking forward to some warm holidays at home.
> 
> Happy Holidays to all of you - Sam



Yeah, logging this time of year sucks!

I ever tell ya about the time I was too stubborn/cheap to buy winter caulks, and wore my leather caulks all winter? LOL

My boss told me if I ever complained about cold feet, he'd fire me; I never once complained, which really chapped his ass.


----------



## Greystoke

mtsamloggit said:


> Been workin up Cold Creek above St. Ignatious (not kidding about the drainage name). Not a good time of the year to be working up Cold Creek....it's cold up there. We were gonna come home today anyways....decided a half day was good enough. Didn't get above zero the past three days up there....sleeping in my car (and for the past three weeks).
> 
> Cold sawing for sure, looking forward to some warm holidays at home.
> 
> Happy Holidays to all of you - Sam



Gotta have the whiskey to stay warm! How did you like that chain?




Greenwedge said:


> Randy, I would love to, but unfortunately the guy has nothing to hide! He is the most open guy I know. He ain't afraid to show you the spots on his liver! I think his name should have been spelled Koti. King of tomuch information. Ha.



LOL...Pat knows me oh too well! Don't you all be thinkin I am openin up on the puter though...Gotta keep up my badass, "online" image



Metals406 said:


> Yeah, logging this time of year sucks!
> 
> I ever tell ya about the time I was too stubborn/cheap to buy winter caulks, and wore my leather caulks all winter? LOL
> 
> My boss told me if I ever complained about cold feet, he'd fire me; I never once complained, which really chapped his ass.



Cheap boss, he shoulda felt sorry for ya and bought you a pair...either that or step on your cold toe for bein stubborn!


----------



## Metals406

tarzanstree said:


> Cheap boss, he shoulda felt sorry for ya and bought you a pair...either that or step on your cold toe for bein stubborn!



Hahahaha, he was a real ass-hat. He was a cheap as they come, and yelled and cussed all day. He wanted his loads out so he could buy more toys; nobody liked working for him.

He wouldn't buy you a stick of gum, let alone a pair of caulks.:hmm3grin2orange:

If we had any opportunity to work under his brothers yarders, we took it!


----------



## Rounder

tarzanstree said:


> Gotta have the whiskey to stay warm! How did you like that chain?
> 
> 
> 
> I like the chain, a little faster and smoother that what I've been doing by hand.
> I'll have some new angles to study, thanks again for the grind, I owe ya one. How's elk steaks and whiskey sound for repayment? Drive safe headin' East - Sam


----------



## STEVEGODSEYJR

Greenwedge---Made 5 fuel oxidizer ditch's in the intake. 




What are fuel oxidizer and what do they look like Steve BTW that 66 is one bad mutha!!!!!!


----------



## GASoline71

Burvol said:


> I'm glad you came here. The regulars in this particular thread are a handful, we need more. You might end up being the ring leader of the #### sligning' LOL. *You are right on the money with full comp, I could of swore I was talking to the wall for years here*. Half cocked, crazy, maybe spit in your eye, hell who knows. Right on, can't hold back your personality on camera. Let er' hang out there lol. Just gets a guy exicted, the way it should be out there. Love it.



I heard ya Burvy... and switched toot-sweet. Works like a dream. Just more cutters to file 

Welcome abord to Greenwedge and "Ugly dog". 

Gary


----------



## Greenwedge

STEVEGODSEYJR said:


> Greenwedge---Made 5 fuel oxidizer ditch's in the intake.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What are fuel oxidizer and what do they look like Steve BTW that 66 is one bad mutha!!!!!!



Well, next time I take my saw apart I will take a pic and post it. Just picture looking through your intake. If you run your finger across it it is really smooth to the touch. Well, I take a slim aggressive grinding burr and create ditch's (horizontally) across the throat of the intake. When your fuel is coming through it white caps it and burns hotter. Either that or it creates a fabrication in my mind that tells me its running like a som buck. One of the two. lol


----------



## RandyMac

There are some car intakes that have etchings to trap liquid fuel to allow it to vaporized and not be wasted.


----------



## paccity

hope i can ad from past experience , back in my air cooled 2strk motocross days , we would port and clean casting ridges,but leave the surface rough as possible to help keep the fuel atomized, because if you polished it to much ,droplets would form and hurt throttle response. never thought of doing that? food for thought. thank's.


----------



## Greenwedge

Greenwedge said:


> Well, next time I take my saw apart I will take a pic and post it. Just picture looking through your intake. If you run your finger across it it is really smooth to the touch. Well, I take a slim aggressive grinding burr and create ditch's (horizontally) across the throat of the intake. When your fuel is coming through it white caps it and burns hotter. Either that or it creates a fabrication in my mind that tells me its running like a som buck. One of the two. lol



Forgive my terminolagy. I just make up words if I don't know the proper one. All I know is it sure nuff runs!


----------



## paccity

Greenwedge said:


> Forgive my terminolagy. I just make up words if I don't know the proper one. All I know is it sure nuff runs!



i understood ya just fine, just never thought of doing the ridges. good idea.


----------



## Ramblewood

I keep a small roll of orange flagging in my pack and tie a piece to things that I can't paint orange - like the end of a chain, staple guns, scrench, etc. All my ax handles, peavys are orange . Haven't lost anything since I started doing it .


----------



## Metals406

RandyMac said:


> There are some car intakes that have etchings to trap liquid fuel to allow it to vaporized and not be wasted.



Randy, why do I get the feeling your signature is watching me?:biggrinbounce2:


----------



## Greystoke

mtsamloggit said:


> tarzanstree said:
> 
> 
> 
> Gotta have the whiskey to stay warm! How did you like that chain?
> 
> 
> 
> I like the chain, a little faster and smoother that what I've been doing by hand.
> I'll have some new angles to study, thanks again for the grind, I owe ya one. How's elk steaks and whiskey sound for repayment? Drive safe headin' East - Sam
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds good pard!
Click to expand...


----------



## RandyMac

Metals406 said:


> Randy, why do I get the feeling your signature is watching me?:biggrinbounce2:



He is.


----------



## Burvol

MERRY F'ING CHRISTMAS!


----------



## schmuck.k

MERRY F'ING CHRISTMAS![/QUOTE]

and a Happy F'ING New Year to you :chainsawguy:


----------



## banshee67

Burvol said:


> MERRY F'ING CHRISTMAS!



sorry, ive recently become a tree hugger, after seeing this chick


----------



## banshee67

Burvol said:


> MERRY F'ING CHRISTMAS!



sorry, ive recently become a tree hugger, after seeing this chick


----------



## Metals406

RandyMac said:


> He is.



Well I don't care how hard he stares at me. . . This is my popcorn, and I ain't sharing! opcorn:


----------



## Metals406

Burvol said:


> MERRY F'ING CHRISTMAS!



Merry Christmas to you and Lindsey!!


----------



## mdavlee

Merry Christmas you rowdy bunch.


----------



## Cedarkerf

Merry Christmas Jesse, Cody, Jamison, Bob. Patty, Nate,and the rest, and a Happy new year. And a special prayer for Lindseys health.


----------



## Burvol

Cedarkerf said:


> Merry Christmas Jesse, Cody, Jamison, Bob. Patty, Nate,and the rest, and a Happy new year. And a special prayer for Lindseys health.



Thank you Brian, and I hope you and Mt. Gal have a great new year. I am happy to know and have you guys as friends. Things are getting better here day by day! Lindz is getting her strength back to slap me a round a bit better.


----------



## RandyMac

That is great news, I'm happy to hear that.


----------



## Metals406

Burvol said:


> Thank you Brian, and I hope you and Mt. Gal have a great new year. I am happy to know and have you guys as friends. Things are getting better here day by day! Lindz is getting her strength back to slap me a round a bit better.



Excellent!!


----------



## Metals406

Cedarkerf said:


> Merry Christmas Jesse, Cody, Jamison, Bob. Patty, Nate,and the rest, and a Happy new year. And a special prayer for Lindseys health.



Merry Christmas to you and your wife Brian!! This is how we get down. 

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/8u_c1oyaClU?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/8u_c1oyaClU?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>


----------



## forestryworks

Merry Christmas you bunch of tree killers!

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/TODG0f8Wdyo?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/TODG0f8Wdyo?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>


----------



## paccity

forestryworks said:


> Merry Christmas you bunch of tree killers!
> 
> <object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/TODG0f8Wdyo?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/TODG0f8Wdyo?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>



right back at ya.


----------



## Dayto

All the best my PNW brothers
Merry xmas


----------



## schmuck.k

merry xmas everyone


----------



## slowp

Burvol said:


> Thank you Brian, and I hope you and Mt. Gal have a great new year. I am happy to know and have you guys as friends. Things are getting better here day by day! Lindz is getting her strength back to slap me a round a bit better.



GREAT NEWS!!

That's a very merry Christmas right there.


----------



## stihl sawing

Just want to wish all of you a Very Merry Christmas and thanks so much for the time you put in to posting the great pics and videos. Thanks again.


----------



## Greenwedge

*Merry Christmas*

Merry Christmas my new friends. My your day be filled with laughter, love, friends and family, good food and drink, and may the distant echo of a precision tuned German 2 stroke in the draw be silenced for this glorious day. We'll get back to er on Monday.

Peace to all, 

Pat


----------



## Metals406

Greenwedge said:


> Merry Christmas my new friends. My your day be filled with laughter, love, friends and family, good food and drink, and may the distant echo of a precision tuned German 2 stroke in the draw be silenced for this glorious day. We'll get back to er on Monday.
> 
> Peace to all,
> 
> Pat



:agree2::agree2:


----------



## GASoline71

Burvol said:


> Thank you Brian, and I hope you and Mt. Gal have a great new year. I am happy to know and have you guys as friends. Things are getting better here day by day! *Lindz is getting her strength back to slap me a round a bit better*.



Great news mang! 

Merry Christmas to you all! I am looking forward to finally meeting some of you in June!

Gary


----------



## bitzer

Hope you boys all had a good Christmas! 

Here's one from today. 







Got it in the road. Its awful tight in here. 






Cafeteria/hot box. Cold pecan pie for dessert today. Good eatin.


----------



## joesawer

What kind of hoe is that?


----------



## bitzer

joesawer said:


> What kind of hoe is that?



New Holland LB110. Works fine on the flats for skidding and kicking stuff around. Gets a little hairy on hill sides. I've nearly tipped it more that once.


----------



## joesawer

Post some pics of it. How heavy is it and do you have a thumb or grapple on it.


----------



## Metals406

bitzercreek1 said:


> Hope you boys all had a good Christmas!
> 
> Here's one from today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Got it in the road. Its awful tight in here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cafeteria/hot box. Cold pecan pie for dessert today. Good eatin.


 
A box face with a snipe eh? I like your lunch room!! Though, it seems like a lot of wasted square footage for a lunch area.


----------



## bitzer

Joe- I'll see if I can get a pic tomorrow. 10 ton. No thumb or grapple. Wish I had one, but I make do with a frost pick and a bucket. I could also use some forks. This isn't what I do full time. Its a week here and a week there. 

Metals- Actually attempt at a siswel. When I used my axe to pop the piece of pie out more broke off out of the face. That should have been a heads up to the frozen wood. It did come around, but not as much as I wanted it too. Had to double stack on the far side because of that big limb off to the right. A lot of weight over there. A dutch may have helped kick it around a little more. eh. oh well. Its harder to get the wood moving in the cold and snaps off eaiser. 

You should see the lunch room in person! That pic doesn't quite get it there. My lunch box and other crap are hanging up high.


----------



## Metals406

bitzercreek1 said:


> Joe- I'll see if I can get a pic tomorrow. 10 ton. No thumb or grapple. Wish I had one, but I make do with a frost pick and a bucket. I could also use some forks. This isn't what I do full time. Its a week here and a week there.
> 
> Metals- Actually attempt at a siswel. When I used my axe to pop the piece of pie out more broke off out of the face. That should have been a heads up to the frozen wood. It did come around, but not as much as I wanted it too. Had to double stack on the far side because of that big limb off to the right. A lot of weight over there. A dutch may have helped kick it around a little more. eh. oh well. Its harder to get the wood moving in the cold and snaps off eaiser.
> 
> You should see the lunch room in person! That pic doesn't quite get it there. My lunch box and other crap are hanging up high.


 
I know all about that frozen wood! It's a real bugger sometimes. . . I haven't had to bust out a sizwheel yet, but I'm gonna sometime just to use it. hahaha

I'm still trying to figure out how you fit a 5 man crew into that lunch room? Is that digger like a clown car? hahahahaha


----------



## bitzer

Split early today. Taking off for a few days. Heres one from this morning. 





Coming around the back.










Still a big fan of the dutch.


----------



## bitzer

Metals there are plenty of days I wish I had a five man crew!

I'm sure this looks pretty mickey mouse to most of you guys, but it gets the job done for me. Put some hills in front of it though and it gets into trouble. I could use some tire chains too. Oh well. Its not mine anyway and the owners aren't going to spring for anything else anytime soon with the frequency of use it gets. I've learned a few tricks with it over the years though. 32" bar on the saw by the way. 

Backwoods culvert. I'm really going to try to use this thing for a small drainage creek I need to get across.


----------



## schmuck.k

bitzercreek1 i want to see that back woods culvert if it works. looks like fun. good work


----------



## bitzer

*Couldn't find the "Bucking" thread?*

Heres the pic anyway. Standing on the stem I backbar until I feel it move. Get on the ground and WOT on from the top down slowing the downward motion when it starts to tighten up, reaming a little maybe, and then when its closed up top, free sailing. Not sure if this is what Burvol would call wheeling, but the more I do it the more I like it. Took a few pinches to get it right, but seems if you're four-stroking on the way down it should be a good pace. I'm sure that adding hills to the mix changes things a touch.


----------



## Metals406

Bitz, that ain't Mickey Mouse at all brother. 

What's up with all the core rot in that area though?

Wood culverts were used for a long time! Should work pretty good.

On the stick, why not fab up a simple mechanical thumb? They work good, are cheap to make, and can be removed at any time. I reckon it would be a good combo for you with the bucket.


----------



## bitzer

schmuck.k said:


> bitzercreek1 i want to see that back woods culvert if it works. looks like fun. good work


 
Hey no problem man! Its gettin awful greasy around here this week though. They're talkin 50s for this weekend and rain. I'm workin the bottoms of some small valleys that are gonna be underwater I'm thinking. I won't get back into this job until it freezes up. I'll post it when I do though.


----------



## Metals406

Just one option of many. . .


----------



## schmuck.k

that mechanical thumb might work really well lifting the logs. might not work as well with the slash tho.


----------



## bitzer

Metals406 said:


> Bitz, that ain't Mickey Mouse at all brother.
> 
> What's up with all the core rot in that area though?
> 
> Wood culverts were used for a long time! Should work pretty good.
> 
> On the stick, why not fab up a simple mechanical thumb? They work good, are cheap to make, and can be removed at any time. I reckon it would be a good combo for you with the bucket.


 
Thanks! The rot is what I'm looking for. I do thinning and cull work. This spot is going to have a great stand of timber some day. Just getting rid of the junk. Thanks for the pics on the thumb. That looks like a piece of cake to fab.


----------



## Metals406

bitzercreek1 said:


> Thanks! The rot is what I'm looking for. I do thinning and cull work. This spot is going to have a great stand of timber some day. Just getting rid of the junk. Thanks for the pics on the thumb. That looks like a piece of cake to fab.


 
Yup, you should be able to make one real, real cheap!

Didn't know you were looking for rot, but now that I do, it makes sense.


----------



## Plankton

White Pine
















Im not sure why the pictures are different sizes and my hardhat is only half sprayed yellow so far so looks a little wierd.


----------



## forestryworks

Nice form, good job on looking up.

The hardhat looks cool like that, I think.

Wrap handle rep coming.


----------



## mdavlee

Nice pictures plankton. Is that the 2188 you added a wrap handle to?


----------



## Plankton

Thanks guys, that is the 2188 with full wrap on it. It makes a world of difference even in limbing and packing the saw.


Also this is the first time I used a snipe, you can kind of see it on the stump in the last picture but it was only on one side of the facecut so right after the second picture the hingewood broke and the the butt twisted off to the right. It worked out great and I plan on trying it on the next couple large trees I fall.


----------



## dancan

Found these videos on the Tube , it's from one of our members here , no big trees (it's an East coast thing) , don't know if they've been posted before so here you go .


[video=youtube;PC8z86-5cZ4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_profilepage&v=PC8z86-5cZ4[/video]

[video=youtube;TwWOkJ_A6vI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_profilepage&v=TwWOkJ_A6vI[/video]


----------



## OregonSawyer

*Input from the Experts*

I haven't really posted on here (As I'm sure you can tell by my post count.) But I have read LOTS on here (even before I was a member.)
I cut down a large Old Growth Fir yesterday that turned out to be quite rotten on the stump. It was leaning hard straight ahead and looked as though that was going to be the only possible way that it would come down. Anyway, I put the face in and figured out it was fairly rotten (but still some fiber holding it together, not hollow). Then I started in on the back cut, my thought was to bore it so I could establish a hinge as it was such a head leaner. But, just after I finished setting the hinge on the left side and only cutting about 1/4 of the back cut it popped! From there I decided I had better not run behind it and try to set the hinge on the right but rather just finish up as much of the back cut as I could before it really started going. 

I am just curious what you professional fallers would have done given the circumstances? Granted you weren't there and it's tough to give advice on something that you didn't get to see all of the variable first hand. But just general thoughts on what to do with a hard head leaners etc. 

Bonus: I have a vid of the back cut in case it helps any. If not, it's still a big tree making a pretty good boom.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/8zSg3zI1HDI?hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/8zSg3zI1HDI?hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


----------



## 056 kid

If it was rotten, I would have hit the back hard and fast. In rotten trees it really helps to figure out where the rot is and where the good wood is. Depending on those variables, you can manipulate the tree as you normally would, still though a rotten face usually falls apart as the tree sits on it. .

And in my brief experiences, rotten trees along with hollow trees would rather fall on your chainsaw than barber chair LOL..


----------



## SWE#Kipp

dancan said:


> Found these videos on the Tube , it's from one of our members here , no big trees (it's an East coast thing) , don't know if they've been posted before so here you go .
> 
> 
> [video=youtube;PC8z86-5cZ4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_profilepage&v=PC8z86-5cZ4[/video]
> 
> [video=youtube;TwWOkJ_A6vI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_profilepage&v=TwWOkJ_A6vI[/video]


 
I think it's Stihl Crazy working in the movies !?


----------



## dancan

SWE#Kipp said:


> I think it's Stihl Crazy working in the movies !?


 
Yes I believe it is and working hard at it .


----------



## hammerlogging

OregonSawyer said:


> I haven't really posted on here (As I'm sure you can tell by my post count.) But I have read LOTS on here (even before I was a member.)
> I cut down a large Old Growth Fir yesterday that turned out to be quite rotten on the stump. It was leaning hard straight ahead and looked as though that was going to be the only possible way that it would come down. Anyway, I put the face in and figured out it was fairly rotten (but still some fiber holding it together, not hollow). Then I started in on the back cut, my thought was to bore it so I could establish a hinge as it was such a head leaner. But, just after I finished setting the hinge on the left side and only cutting about 1/4 of the back cut it popped! From there I decided I had better not run behind it and try to set the hinge on the right but rather just finish up as much of the back cut as I could before it really started going.
> 
> I am just curious what you professional fallers would have done given the circumstances? Granted you weren't there and it's tough to give advice on something that you didn't get to see all of the variable first hand. But just general thoughts on what to do with a hard head leaners etc.



I think that the fact that you had a falling plan and then were smart enough to know you needed to change it shows you have a good understanding of the dynamics of falling. I'm with the Kid, with rot, cut your guts out till its time to bail and get the hell out of there, esp. with maybe a big old dead top.....

They'r enot all the same, stay aware of what the situation is as circumstances arrise, and carry on as you best see fit. 

Hell I've had trees with 3 escape routes, one in each of the 45's back, and one right damn where it was supposed to go just in case #### got really crazy.

Take care.


----------



## bitzer

OregonSawyer said:


> I haven't really posted on here (As I'm sure you can tell by my post count.) But I have read LOTS on here (even before I was a member.)
> I cut down a large Old Growth Fir yesterday that turned out to be quite rotten on the stump. It was leaning hard straight ahead and looked as though that was going to be the only possible way that it would come down. Anyway, I put the face in and figured out it was fairly rotten (but still some fiber holding it together, not hollow). Then I started in on the back cut, my thought was to bore it so I could establish a hinge as it was such a head leaner. But, just after I finished setting the hinge on the left side and only cutting about 1/4 of the back cut it popped! From there I decided I had better not run behind it and try to set the hinge on the right but rather just finish up as much of the back cut as I could before it really started going.
> 
> I am just curious what you professional fallers would have done given the circumstances? Granted you weren't there and it's tough to give advice on something that you didn't get to see all of the variable first hand. But just general thoughts on what to do with a hard head leaners etc.


 
Like Hammer said. Have set escape routes and good clear paths. Look the rest of the tree over really well before doing anything. LOOK UP in your back cut! Make sure you hit the compression wood first. Usually there is some side lean with head lean. The pop probably meant you started on the tension side. Hard to say for sure though. Usually if the rot is not real obvious from the outside the rind of the stem is ok and you should have enough holding wood to cut as normal. "Should" is always the key there. Like the Kid said hit it fast.


----------



## OregonSawyer

Thanks for the input fellas... It was definitely limb heavy to the right so that would make sense as to why I got the initial "pop." My plan (before putting the face in and finding out it was unsound) was to cut that right side first on my back cut. But then I was thinking "what if there isn't enough fiber in the back and it sits down on that side when I try to set the hinge there?" So then it was just kinda flying by the seat of my pants, improvising. If I come across that situation again though I'll definitely keep your guys' pointers in mind. "Hard and Fast"


----------



## Burvol

My hat is painted in that fashion for a reason. That corkey color is my all time go to for my big 4 species.The K.K. as I am known on the river, is what I call the color. In other parts that combo is known as the Willamette Special or in Canada they call it Lettuce and Tomato. It was suppose to be the only one out there, but you being on the East Coast, I'll say it's alright LOL.


----------



## tramp bushler

eaked-out:Hey you guys; I haven't been on here for quite a while . Puter died a long time ago. And I just got a new smarty pants fon . Good t see ya'll. Still walkin around under your tin hats . I'm still loggin my own show in th Interior . It was 50 below this morning so I didn't even try t start th truck tyhis morning. Maybe I'll figure out how t post some pics with this telephone .


----------



## Metals406

tramp bushler said:


> eaked-out:Hey you guys; I haven't been on here for quite a while . Puter died a long time ago. And I just got a new smarty pants fon . Good t see ya'll. Still walkin around under your tin hats . I'm still loggin my own show in th Interior . It was 50 below this morning so I didn't even try t start th truck tyhis morning. Maybe I'll figure out how t post some pics with this telephone .


 
Good to finally hear from you Tramp! I was wondering what happened to you. Did you ever get you skidder setup?

Looking forward to pictures if you can post them. :beer:


----------



## joesawer

Hey Tramp 
50 below is freakin cold! Lol


----------



## tramp bushler

Ya , its too cold to work in the woods . My truck is froze up . I havn't been in 5 days


----------



## forestryworks

A little roadside hazard.


----------



## joesawer

Nice work Jamison.
It looks like you got some new boots, are they caulks.
Those trees will lift easier if you use less stump shot.But if you cut low they will lift much harder.
An easier lift means less pounding wedges and less likely to shake something out on your head.
I like to see you use two sets and spread the pressure out.


----------



## paccity

nice transparent axe handle you have. lol. good pics.


----------



## forestryworks

joesawer said:


> Nice work Jamison.
> It looks like you got some new boots, are they caulks.
> Those trees will lift easier if you use less stump shot.But if you cut low they will lift much harder.
> An easier lift means less pounding wedges and less likely to shake something out on your head.
> I like to see you use two sets and spread the pressure out.


 
Thanks for the tip Joel.

Not caulks, just vibram lug soles. Carolina.


----------



## madhatte

Beetle galleries and blue stain: I know how to read 'em here, but I'm curious what you have there. 

Beetles: _Cherambycid_? _Dendroctonus_? Parasite or saprophyte? I'm talking about the ones that you have pictured with the quarter-sized holes and no evident frass. 

Blue stain: _Grosmannia_?

Just comparing ecology, really. Awful interesting stuff.


----------



## forestryworks

madhatte said:


> Beetle galleries and blue stain: I know how to read 'em here, but I'm curious what you have there.
> 
> Beetles: _Cherambycid_? _Dendroctonus_? Parasite or saprophyte? I'm talking about the ones that you have pictured with the quarter-sized holes and no evident frass.
> 
> Blue stain: _Grosmannia_?
> 
> Just comparing ecology, really. Awful interesting stuff.


 
Thanks for mentioning that. I haven't heard much about the southern pine beetle in this area - I'm sure it is here, just not in epidemic fashion.

That pine also had a lightning scar for roughly half the length of the stem, and half the crown was dead, with the rest not too far behind.


----------



## madhatte

Check this out. It's news to me.


----------



## paccity

back in the mid 80's i cut a crap load of beetle kill lodgepole pine in central oregon ,allmost got sick of it.lol.can't remember the name of the bug, but would get under the bark kill it and move on to the next tree, was one of the last logging job's i had for twenty years, but it was a good forestry contract when things were slow on the west side.


----------



## madhatte

under the bark = cambium = easy nutrition

bugs are lazy


----------



## paccity

sounds like you know a thing or two about forest health, some thing i sould have done when i had to stop cutting for a living. i prob would have happier than working in doors up till a few years ago.


----------



## madhatte

paccity said:


> sounds like you know a thing or two about forest health.


 
I pretend to on TV, anyway!


----------



## newsawtooth

forestryworks said:


> Thanks for mentioning that. I haven't heard much about the southern pine beetle in this area - I'm sure it is here, just not in epidemic fashion.
> 
> That pine also had a lightning scar for roughly half the length of the stem, and half the crown was dead, with the rest not too far behind.


 
The diminished vigor of the tree as you describe makes makes me inclined to believe they are Mountain Pine Beetles. And the accompanying holes the work of some enterprising birds. Are the Mountain Pine Beetles epidemic or endemic where you were cutting? There are some indications that they are even attacking spruce here, (Colorado) in areas of high beetle activity. Nice cutting there.

Also, just wondering if anyone else notices a difference in falling beetle infested trees as opposed to healthy trees? They seem to act a little differently off the stump especially in regard to holding wood manipulation. Perhaps because they are functionally dead trees/boles with live limb weight (before they turn red)? Just spit-balling.


----------



## madhatte

My experience says that red DF snags cut the same as live trees, more or less, but as soon as the needles fall, it's a totally different beast. Sometimes they're hard and brittle, sometimes soft and punky. You have to sound 'em to tell the difference. Note that the major agents of mortality in my corner of Western WA are all fungal -- beetles are primarily opportunivores here. It's not the same even fifty miles east of here.


----------



## newsawtooth

I am not sure which side of the fungal debate I am on here. Clearly the fungus contributes to the decline of the tree but is it to a lesser or greater extent than severing the cambium? Have the beetles evolved to use the fungus in a way that disrupts the tree's defenses or is just chance? 

The trees that surprise me sometimes are the ones that appear healthy to the casual observer. Removal of a patch of bark near a bore hole reveals galleries and blue stain. The live green limb weight is still on the trees and the stump acts a little strange. It could be related to the particular specimens which are Ponderosa no more than 60 ft tall with significant gnarled limbs. Or it could very well be the feller. Thanks for the insight, Madhatte.


----------



## paccity

most of the lodgepole i cut were still green needle or brown, no real diff. the rotten ones took a little more concentration. we took every thing accept pondarosa, some lumber , firewood or burned. don't know how they deal with it now but then they just took everything and replant.


----------



## paccity

oh yea, i hated the dam pummy dust. hell on the teeth.


----------



## madhatte

newsawtooth said:


> I am not sure which side of the fungal debate I am on here. Clearly the fungus contributes to the decline of the tree but is it to a lesser or greater extent than severing the cambium? Have the beetles evolved to use the fungus in a way that disrupts the tree's defenses or is just chance?



Near as I can figure, the fungus is just hitching a ride. The bugs are the real pathogen... but only when their galleries girdle the tree by severing cambium below the bark a full 360 degrees around the stem. That's how you can have a "healthy" individual within a bug-killed patch, and a blue-stained individual within a healthy patch. This is currently considered a "good" thing, as it contributes to a "mosaic" effect within forested stands regarding age, health, and species.

See all those quotes? That's the stuff I'm not sure I agree with.


----------



## hammerlogging

thats it... i have to take my ####in camera to the woods and get some pictures of some timber ####in slammin or I am gonna puke with all this forestry talk!!!!!:skeleton:

Just razzin ya


----------



## slowp

hammerlogging said:


> thats it... i have to take my ####in camera to the woods and get some pictures of some timber ####in slammin or I am gonna puke with all this forestry talk!!!!!:skeleton:
> 
> Just razzin ya



My camera keeps getting too cold and refuses to work once I crawl through all the brush. Besides, the only ones working are the fallers....

And unusual for here, the faller has a young man along who is learning by bucking and limbing.


----------



## madhatte

hammerlogging said:


> thats it... i have to take my ####in camera to the woods and get some pictures of some timber ####in slammin or I am gonna puke with all this forestry talk!!!!!:skeleton:
> 
> Just razzin ya



Bring it!


----------



## tramp bushler

slowp said:


> My camera keeps getting too cold and refuses to work once I crawl through all the brush. Besides, the only ones working are the fallers....
> 
> And unusual for here, the faller has a young man along who is learning by bucking and limbing.


 
If you have a case for it try putting a chemical hand or toe warmer in the bottom of the case and your camera on top of it . I do that with my cell/smart phone in a chest pocket . It works good.


----------



## slowp

Thanks Tramp. I'll buy some handwarmers for that purpose. It was too wet for the ultra zoom camera today so no pictures of falling. I like to be out of range when they are falling. That way I don't slow them down and I'm out of the way.


----------



## forestryworks

And another roadside hazard.


----------



## forestryworks

newsawtooth said:


> The diminished vigor of the tree as you describe makes makes me inclined to believe they are Mountain Pine Beetles. And the accompanying holes the work of some enterprising birds. Are the Mountain Pine Beetles epidemic or endemic where you were cutting? There are some indications that they are even attacking spruce here, (Colorado) in areas of high beetle activity. Nice cutting there.
> 
> Also, just wondering if anyone else notices a difference in falling beetle infested trees as opposed to healthy trees? They seem to act a little differently off the stump especially in regard to holding wood manipulation. Perhaps because they are functionally dead trees/boles with live limb weight (before they turn red)? Just spit-balling.


 
No Mountain Pine Beetle here in southeast Oklahoma. Just Southern Pine Beetle.


----------



## Metals406

forestryworks said:


> And another roadside hazard.


 
Looking good Jameson. . . Why the snipe on the stump?


----------



## forestryworks

Metals406 said:


> Looking good Jameson. . . Why the snipe on the stump?


 
Just trying them out on these freshly dead trees. Seeing what it does and doesn't do.

I forgot to look though, I was watching the top, lol.


----------



## Metals406

forestryworks said:


> Just trying them out on these freshly dead trees. Seeing what it does and doesn't do.
> 
> I forgot to look though, I was watching the top, lol.


 
Hahaha. . . Go review the tape, and make a call! LOL


----------



## Plankton

Crummys are so last year!













Cheers


----------



## ChrisF

That is awesome!

Reminds me an awful lot of one of Randy's little stories.


----------



## 056 kid

Plankton said:


> Crummys are so last year!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers


 

I rode a 50 cc moped to work for a while.

I strapped my 660 to the luggage rack just like the picture here. Im sure it looked funny, a little moped with a 660 & 32'' bar hanging off the back. .


----------



## slowp

*Walking a tree around?*

I show up with my little camera and things do not go smoothly. First, they wanted to trade for a bigger tree. I said NO. 

The guy who is talking who you will not see is a semi-retired logger and is in the same skill class as my insurance agent. His nephew is the one driving the wedges.

The little tree wanted to go over onto the road. The road is a paved two lane and there was no equipment to skid it off with. So, they worked on it. The two were working together because they ran out of room in the unit. I had to go paint more skid trails out after this tree went.

Here we go.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/CJWn5qd36ys?hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/CJWn5qd36ys?hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


----------



## Gologit

*Camera....*

What kind of camera are you using? The sound on that thing is great! My videos from my little Olympys make a 660 sound like a mosquito.


----------



## slowp

The sound is good, but sometimes I can't get it in focus. It is a GE (General Electric) with a super zoom on it. Got it at K-Mart. I had never heard of GE cameras. 

Here's a out of focus normal tree. Note he's using one arm. And waiting for the other guy to get out of the danger zone. 

<iframe title="YouTube video player" class="youtube-player" type="text/html" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/IYccIS-WqQY" frameborder="0" allowFullScreen></iframe>


----------



## bitzer

In the first video seemed like a lot of fanagling to me. Was the tree limb locked? They just kept making kerfs in the far side to get it to sit down that way? Almost like a dutch that you keep clearing out. I would guess that would put a lot of pressure on the fibers. What kind of tree was that? Obviously got the job done though. Small timber can be a real pita sometimes. I'd like to see more. 

Thanks Patty! Good video.


----------



## Gologit

One arm ??!!!?? Oh, no...not that! OMG! Doesn't he know that if you don't keep a white-knuckled death grip on the saw with both hands at all times terrible things might happen? Tsk...the GOL advocates would just never approve. I hope, in your role of Faller Harrasser, you gave the lad a good talking to.

But...if you're on a long cut, falling or bucking, how else can you get smoke going or a pinch of snoose? Or scratch yourself? Or....well, never mind.


----------



## slowp

But he had chaps on! And the other guy wears his bugz on his hardhat! :tremble:


----------



## slowp

bitzercreek1 said:


> In the first video seemed like a lot of fanagling to me. Was the tree limb locked? They just kept making kerfs in the far side to get it to sit down that way? Almost like a dutch that you keep clearing out. I would guess that would put a lot of pressure on the fibers. What kind of tree was that? Obviously got the job done though. Small timber can be a real pita sometimes. I'd like to see more.
> 
> Thanks Patty! Good video.



Yes, it was limb locked and had a bit of a lean towards the road. If I had kept my camera on, you would have heard the guy running the saw say, "A video on how NOT to fall a tree." 

The tree was a Douglas-fir. They are thinning it. The next step sounds like they plan to bunch it with a shovel, and they'll grapple skid it out, if the soil holds up. It is pretty wet in there, and we scared our head ranger by joking that Swamp Loggers was coming to film that unit being logged. :devil:


----------



## bitzer

slowp said:


> Yes, it was limb locked and had a bit of a lean towards the road. If I had kept my camera on, you would have heard the guy running the saw say, "A video on how NOT to fall a tree."
> 
> The tree was a Douglas-fir. They are thinning it. The next step sounds like they plan to bunch it with a shovel, and they'll grapple skid it out, if the soil holds up. It is pretty wet in there, and we scared our head ranger by joking that Swamp Loggers was coming to film that unit being logged. :devil:


 
Yeah that makes sense. Not that I've ever done my share of fanagling or anything. 

I can't believe the reckless abandon with which the guy in the second vid runs his saw. Anyone who has never had to cut with one arm while the rest of their body is running away hasn't spent enough time out there. That and it just plain looks cool. How else am I supposed to text my little lady at home all day when I'm out in the woods?


----------



## madhatte

bitzercreek1 said:


> Anyone who has never had to cut with one arm while the rest of their body is running away hasn't spent enough time out there.



Or, hold on to the tree for dear life with one hand while running the saw with the other. Gravity does some strange stuff.


----------



## raycarr

One of the places I learned about trees, was a Sitka stand. All were about 24" dia. close together and tall. They would try to hold eachother up, lots of sitting back and other things. I learned the back cut first thing there, well I was shown how it worked, getting it to work was another story. I was also taught what I called the "helicopter cut", you finished the cut in such a way, that the tree would readily spin off it's nieghbors and reduce getting hung up.
As for the one armed sawing, I haven't had to do it much, probably won't. Often what seems to be insanity, is what is required to do the job. I have seen the casually insane in action, it's not easy to know what is needed and what is showing off.


----------



## huskyhank

slowp,

Thanks for the great video.
More please.

I'd rep you but I'm out of bullets.


----------



## OregonSawyer

Great vids, keep them coming. If anybody is looking for a new camera I would suggest the Kodak Playsport. It shoots in HD as well as it is waterproof up to 3m (~10ft) so you don't have to be over-protective of it getting wet. The vid I posted a few pages back was shot with one. The video itself kinda sucks (gf was filming) but the sound and picture on those cameras are pretty good for as inexpensive as they are!


----------



## forestryworks

OregonSawyer said:


> Great vids, keep them coming. If anybody is looking for a new camera I would suggest the Kodak Playsport. It shoots in HD as well as it is waterproof up to 3m (~10ft) so you don't have to be over-protective of it getting wet. The vid I posted a few pages back was shot with one. The video itself kinda sucks (gf was filming) but the sound and picture on those cameras are pretty good for as inexpensive as they are!


 
I've heard those are good for the price.

I have a Flip Ultra HD video camera. Not too bad for $200. Comes with a built in editing software.


----------



## forestryworks

<iframe title="YouTube video player" class="youtube-player" type="text/html" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ml9i52dZFZ0" frameborder="0" allowFullScreen></iframe>


----------



## ChrisF

Nice vid!

Good to see I'm not the only one that sound a bit excited when a challenging one hits the ground right where it was supposed to.


----------



## madhatte

I didn't even see the supporting stump until it landed on it. Nice!


----------



## hammerlogging

*butt inspection*

View attachment 170236

View attachment 170237

View attachment 170238

View attachment 170239

View attachment 170240


----------



## hammerlogging

Inspecting butts on the landing is a must, to catch un noticed bad habits, to recall what the cutting has been, and so forth.

here and above were a bunch of different variations on a theme.... timberfalling.

Sorry, learning the new system.

View attachment 170242

View attachment 170243

View attachment 170244

View attachment 170245


----------



## 056 kid

that white oak is famous for busting corners.

Looks like fun!


----------



## slowp

OregonSawyer said:


> Great vids, keep them coming. If anybody is looking for a new camera I would suggest the Kodak Playsport. It shoots in HD as well as it is waterproof up to 3m (~10ft) so you don't have to be over-protective of it getting wet. The vid I posted a few pages back was shot with one. The video itself kinda sucks (gf was filming) but the sound and picture on those cameras are pretty good for as inexpensive as they are!



Not enough zoom for me. My bulky sometimes out of focus camera can be used as a binocular. Thanks for the suggestion though. 

I read the owner's manual. There wasn't anything to learn in it. Maybe I need to practice more.


----------



## OregonSawyer

slowp said:


> Not enough zoom for me. My bulky sometimes out of focus camera can be used as a binocular. Thanks for the suggestion though.
> 
> I read the owner's manual. There wasn't anything to learn in it. Maybe I need to practice more.


 
Yeah, that is my one gripe about the Kodak actually. I haven't used mine enough to really determine how much of an issue it will be.


----------



## bitzer

Good clip Jameson! Glad to see you're still out there keeping the skills sharp. 

Joe, nice pics! The tip tracks give those pics a little scale. How's the new gig? Are you boring the face mostly because you can't hit the down hill side or just taking more pull out of the equation? 

Great description of that sunrise beam coming through the face bore a while back. Those are the moments.

Looking at the pics again I kind of answered my own question. Those pics sure show theres more than one way to skin one.


----------



## hammerlogging

More boring than I'd like but it tends that way when you're patch is heavier to oak over poplar. I had a super gravy patch of poplar but it was mostly hauled out and I really mostly wanted to share a selection of techniques. Boring the heart sometimes to reach through to cut off the off side, sometimes to care for the butt log.

Yes, my light through the kerf moment was spectacular. The gig is good, I have a few more of the days of the less than good falling before I get back to the good prime falling, take the good with the bad. Isn't that bad anyhow.


----------



## GASoline71

Sum pix... t'day...






















Gary


----------



## GASoline71

Sum mor...


























I have a lot more pix. But the cat I had with me today has a shaky hand... so needless to say... this is about all that was any good out of about 100 pix... LOL

Gary


----------



## forestryworks

Nice pictures, Gary!


----------



## paccity

good pix .


----------



## GASoline71

Thanks... it sure felt good to be back in the woods again... =)

Gary


----------



## Cedarkerf

Nice to see ya posting pics Gary. Need Mntngal to come and take pics for ya she does a great job shooting.


----------



## Meadow Beaver

Nice pics and gloves Gary, those are some pretty tall stumps as well.


----------



## madhatte

USA bar, sha-zammm!


----------



## slowp

Red gloves and orange accessories? Tsk Tsk.  Where'd you find the flat ground?
Nice pictures.


----------



## GASoline71

You dig those gloves? LOL... they are the poly-cotton-knit thingys from Northstar Glove Co. Same cats that make White Ox gloves. The red ones are the same ones as the white ones that all the fallers usually wear, but just...RED. LOL 

I was cuttin' on a tract of land on Fidalgo Island near Anacortes, WA. Prolly one of the higher spots on the Island. But was fairly flat on top where we were cuttin. But some were on the side hill too... 

Gary


----------



## GASoline71

madhatte said:


> USA bar, sha-zammm!


 
Yessir!!! only way to fly mang! 

Gary


----------



## slowp

GASoline71 said:


> You dig those gloves? LOL... they are the poly-cotton-knit thingys from Northstar Glove Co. Same cats that make White Ox gloves. The red ones are the same ones as the white ones that all the fallers usually wear, but just...RED. LOL
> 
> I was cuttin' on a tract of land on Fidalgo Island near Anacortes, WA. Prolly one of the higher spots on the Island. But was fairly flat on top where we were cuttin. But some were on the side hill too...
> 
> Gary



Hmmm. Maybe I'll dye some pink. I was staggering around on a vertical side today.
Just swallowed some vitamin I as the knees are feeling it. Back again tomorrow. 
Oh Joy! It could be worse. I'm only carrying cans of paint, no haywire or saws.


----------



## GASoline71

I'm on Vitamin I tonight too Patty... 

Gary


----------



## Gologit

GASoline71 said:


> I'm on Vitamin I tonight too Patty...
> 
> Gary


 

Vitamin I? You two old folks better take a little easy tomorrow.  Take your time...but hurry every chance you get.

Good to see you back on the saw Gary.


----------



## GASoline71

Thanks Bob...

I washed my Vitamin I down with a sixer... 

Gary


----------



## Metals406

Is this a paying gig Gary, or for fun/helping out?


----------



## Meadow Beaver

Well I didn't even know they made faller gloves in colors


----------



## GASoline71

Metals406 said:


> Is this a paying gig Gary, or for fun/helping out?



I'm a "hired gun"... 



Meadow Beaver said:


> Well I didn't even know they made faller gloves in colors



LOL... actually these gloves were made to sell at local Football games and the team colors are Red, White, and Black. So they had some left over... The owner of North Star Gloves is a family friend. 

Gary


----------



## Metals406

GASoline71 said:


> I'm a "hired gun"...
> 
> 
> 
> LOL... actually these gloves were made to sell at local Football games and the team colors are Red, White, and Black. So they had some left over... The owner of North Star Gloves is a family friend.
> 
> Gary


 
Right on Gary. . . It's always good to get back in the woods. I really like the products North star puts out. . . Specially the White Ox for cold temps.


----------



## slowp

Gologit said:


> Vitamin I? You two old folks better take a little easy tomorrow.  Take your time...but hurry every chance you get.
> 
> Good to see you back on the saw Gary.



Getting my walker through the brush might could be a little challenging today. More vitamins will be needed. 

One of the fallers tried to talk me into carrying his saw for him. I declined as it is new and nice and shiny. I'd hate to put a scratch on it.


----------



## slowp

Got the walker to go through the brush ok then went over in time to look at stuff and caught this on video. Just some normal falling to make the landing bigger.
Oh, he honked before he went by.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/PWwS85TXJGw?hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/PWwS85TXJGw?hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

<iframe title="YouTube video player" class="youtube-player" type="text/html" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/bl9lU95-OPg" frameborder="0" allowFullScreen></iframe>


----------



## Metals406

Cool videos Patty!


----------



## RandyMac

Jesus H Christ!!!
They will let anyone in here.:rotfl:

A little bird told me I was no longer banned.

Where did I put that sharp stick? Oh yeah, I remember.....they had to pull it out, better find a clean stick.


----------



## Metals406

Hi Randy!!


----------



## ChrisF

RandyMac said:


> Jesus H Christ!!!
> They will let anyone in here.:rotfl:
> 
> A little bird told me I was no longer banned.
> 
> Where did I put that sharp stick? Oh yeah, I remember.....they had to pull it out, better find a clean stick.


 

You're back?! Sweet! Welcome back Randy!


----------



## bitzer

RandyMac said:


> Jesus H Christ!!!
> They will let anyone in here.:rotfl:
> 
> A little bird told me I was no longer banned.
> 
> Where did I put that sharp stick? Oh yeah, I remember.....they had to pull it out, better find a clean stick.


 
Don't worry Randy. The Bossmans in the corner with the mirrored glasses and a 30-06 if'n you ain't got yer mind right.


----------



## bitzer

Hey nice pics Gary! Nice bore on that face! ha. ha. 

Nothing like being in the woods.


----------



## 066logger

coastalfaller said:


> Here's some pics of one of my bullbuckers. The pics were taken in Cleagh Cr on Vancouver Island. Not bad spruce!


 
sorry for bringing up the old post but has anybody noticed these pics look totally photoshoped? i mean i aint callin anybody a liar but just look at the shadows and the bark pattern on the tree. either its just an optical illusion or those pics are well ya kno lol. :msp_confused: 

oh by the way those pics are in post #509 i figured the pics would show up also when i quoted the post but it appears they didnt.


----------



## Meadow Beaver

066logger,

I've stood next to trees bigger than that 5 years ago. Those pics appear to have been taken in the 1970's, and seeing that most loggers don't own professional grade cameras.... Then I would say those are great pics.


----------



## madhatte

I suspect that this is the picture in question?







I can see how you might think the bark looks weird. I assure you, that's an artifact of scanning an old photo. Read this for an explanation.


----------



## coastalfaller

066logger said:


> sorry for bringing up the old post but has anybody noticed these pics look totally photoshoped? i mean i aint callin anybody a liar but just look at the shadows and the bark pattern on the tree. either its just an optical illusion or those pics are well ya kno lol. :msp_confused:
> 
> oh by the way those pics are in post #509 i figured the pics would show up also when i quoted the post but it appears they didnt.


 
I can assure you they are quite real.


----------



## hammerlogging

I don't think calling out one OLD picture without referencing the source would justify reasonable doubt, a simple consideration might be considering tha poster--that the poster runs a ####ing killer huge contract falling company working in some of the most badass timber and ground in the world doesn't really need to make #### up, especially on here, where the majority of folks don't cut as much in a year as him or his guys do in a day.

But, if you wanna jump to conclusions, fine.


----------



## slowp

Here's all I got today. The battery went dead. According to the faller, that was a good thing. This tree did not go exactly where it was intended to go. Some days are like that.






View attachment 171972


----------



## bitzer

Some days are defintely like that Miss P.



Seven below and two feet of snow. 
Beats the hell out of an office job though!

Self portrait. My dogs took a bite out of my jeans. 








Can you guess my dominant hand?


----------



## Greystoke

066logger said:


> sorry for bringing up the old post but has anybody noticed these pics look totally photoshoped? i mean i aint callin anybody a liar but just look at the shadows and the bark pattern on the tree. either its just an optical illusion or those pics are well ya kno lol. :msp_confused:
> 
> oh by the way those pics are in post #509 i figured the pics would show up also when i quoted the post but it appears they didnt.


 
Learn some respect there pard. Jordan, aka coastal faller, is the real deal, and well respected round these parts. Only a chicken#### would photoshop a pic like that, and I guess it would take one to know one


----------



## 066logger

tarzanstree said:


> Learn some respect there pard. Jordan, aka coastal faller, is the real deal, and well respected round these parts. Only a chicken#### would photoshop a pic like that, and I guess it would take one to know one


 
whow guys lol i posted that just saying the tree looks fake cause its so big. lol sorry if youall took it the other way. its just that the bark looks totally not real lol. but now infact i kno that it is indeed real. thats a HUGE freakin tree lol!!! sorry about the miss understanding.


----------



## hammerlogging

10 4 bud, hang out then. Some real dip####s will pass through here and argue non argument things that seem to really annoy more than just me!


----------



## 066logger

hammerlogging said:


> 10 4 bud, hang out then. Some real dip####s will pass through here and argue non argument things that seem to really annoy more than just me!


 
yea i agree with you their. i am envious of you pnw fallers and your big trees. biggest thing in this part of the country is around 7 feet. that looks to be your average tree lol. im hoping to get a good camera so i can post some pics of the sticks we have down here but funds have been a little tight lately....


----------



## 056 kid

Hammerlogging is no PNWer, hes just one of those east coast hacks with his funny face cuts:msp_laugh:

Oh well, at least hes not one of those rope using flatlanders..


----------



## bitzer

Damn new format! Heres the pic anyway and a waste of a post. 









The rope doubles for belts around here too Kid.


----------



## ChrisF

Not a falling pic, but still. Beautiful day out in the woods!


----------



## 066logger

056 kid said:


> Hammerlogging is no PNWer, hes just one of those east coast hacks with his funny face cuts:msp_laugh:
> 
> Oh well, at least hes not one of those rope using flatlanders..


 
hahaha. well thanks alot beings that i pulled 6 trees today lol. they were hanging over a fence and a road so i just pulled them over. to much lean to wedge. and they woulda been to small to wedge anyway. really gotta take some pics soon. im clearing out all the trash trees out of a walnut patch. lots of crap. hedge and thorny locust. got some pretty good stabs today lol.


----------



## 056 kid

Oh its fine, I was referring to a D-bag member here that thinks he is the best thing since sliced bread, I dont give a #### if he runs a business or not. He uses that rich man's amsteel rope on his skidders. That stuff is for kids,(no 056 kids though)..


----------



## ru55ell

Hey, Kid 056

I use that rich mans amsteel rope on my skidder. I can afford to use it because I use it. Any questions?

Ru$$ell


----------



## 056 kid

Sure, are you trying to say something??


----------



## ru55ell

Yes I am trying to say something. That is that Amstell pay for itself so you don't need to be a rich man to use it. However if you do use it you may end up a rich man.

Ru$$ell


----------



## 056 kid

How is rope with less abrasion resistance, less strength, and almost twice the cost going to save a guy money?

Yea you might save some time on those full pulls above your road, but the real stuff just makes you bigger. . .


----------



## ru55ell

056 Kid,

Because its a dream to work with on and off the winch. Free Spool is set to zero resistance. You can splice it with ease. No pig tailing, no jaggers tearing at your flesh,and less Advil and booze for your aching back.

Yes, it won't make me bigger like the 'real stuff' but it just might make my wallet fatter

Ru$$ell


----------



## 056 kid

You did not adress the issues related to strength, which are the most important attributes. .


----------



## ru55ell

056 kid,

3/4" 60,000 lb breaking strength. My skidder, TJ 240 can't pull that hard, so I think the strength issue is covered for me.

Ru$$ell


----------



## 056 kid

Well that puts things into perspective.

The 450 I ran would break 3/4 swage if you could keep it on the ground. .


----------



## ru55ell

056 kid

So what you are telling me is the 3/4 swedge was not up to the task or is it a comment on the operator's skills?

Ru$$ell


----------



## 056 kid

When you have all your cable out over the bank of a steep ass hill trying to pull a giant log that is determined to dig into the ground no matter how you render the choker, cables break. If I never broke them I would not know how to put them back together all alone:msp_flapper:


----------



## Metals406

Hey Ted. . . You need to read the FS studies done on deploying rope instead of cable. Ya might develop an opinion based on some facts instead of conjecture.


----------



## ChainsawmanXX

Here are some pictures of me falling some White Oaks
RATE ME! lol besides not wearing chaps or whatnot.:msp_lol:


----------



## GASoline71

Is that a metal splitting wedge?

Gary


----------



## ChainsawmanXX

Couple more


----------



## ChainsawmanXX

GASoline71 said:


> Is that a metal splitting wedge?
> 
> Gary


 


Yep had a couple of big white oaks that day and didnt wanna break my plastic ones so i just brought my metal ones, alittle more work but hey it works!


----------



## forestryworks

Put that splitting wedge in the firewood pile where it belongs and get you some K&H falling wedges. 

Falling wedges are cheap in that if you hit them with your chain, big deal.

You hit that metal splitting wedge with your chain, instant downtime for re-sharpening or changing out a chain.

Also, from the looks of the indents that metal splitting wedge left, it looks like you are pounding that wedge tight into the backcut.

With a falling wedge, they have a whole lot less taper than the metal splitting wedge and won't spit out as easily. Simply take your plastic falling wedge and palm them into the back cut as you go. Hand snug is fine. As you progress your backcut, you can drive each wedge a little more.

Too many people start driving their wedges hard and way too early. Just makes unnecessary work.

Try your backcut without boring, see how that goes. Typically, you only need to bore and set up your hinge on a heavy head leaner. On a well balanced tree it's usually not necessary.

Try different hinge placements as well. Forward, middle, etc. The whole point of a face cut is to undermine the [well balanced] tree's center of gravity.

Other than that it looks good. Keep learning. Get your basics down until you can do it in your sleep!


----------



## ChainsawmanXX

forestryworks said:


> Put that splitting wedge in the firewood pile where it belongs and get you some K&H falling wedges.
> 
> Falling wedges are cheap in that if you hit them with your chain, big deal.
> 
> You hit that metal splitting wedge with your chain, instant downtime for re-sharpening or changing out a chain.
> 
> Also, from the looks of the indents that metal splitting wedge left, it looks like you are pounding that wedge tight into the backcut.
> 
> With a falling wedge, they have a whole lot less taper than the metal splitting wedge and won't spit out as easily. Simply take your plastic falling wedge and palm them into the back cut as you go. Hand snug is fine. As you progress your backcut, you can drive each wedge a little more.
> 
> Too many people start driving their wedges hard and way too early. Just makes unnecessary work.
> 
> Try your backcut without boring, see how that goes. Typically, you only need to bore and set up your hinge on a heavy head leaner. On a well balanced tree it's usually not necessary.
> 
> Try different hinge placements as well. Forward, middle, etc. The whole point of a face cut is to undermine the [well balanced] tree's center of gravity.
> 
> Other than that it looks good. Keep learning. Get your basics down until you can do it in your sleep!


 
As a matter of fact i have hit my chain on that wedge before! lol takes about 10-15 min to get it resharpened
The only reason i bore cut on that one tree is because my 046 the chain adjuster broke so i got my back up (J-red 2051 with a 16" bar) and the tree was to small so i double cut it. I am 16 and just starting to learn the trade with my father teaching me alot. But i have only been doing it for about 6 months 
thanks i did learn new something from your post Forestryworks "Try different hinge placements as well. Forward, middle, etc. The whole point of a face cut is to undermine the [well balanced] tree's center of gravity." Thanks for that tidbit!


----------



## 056 kid

056 kid said:


> So is the rope stronger?


 
I can't imagin, so show me the studies, and Il read them.


But I think my hypothesis is correct.


----------



## Metals406

Here's one: http://www.treesearch.fs.fed.us/pubs/14002

Do a Google search, there are more.


----------



## lfnh

ChainsawmanXX said:


> *As a matter of fact i have hit my chain on that wedge before! lol takes about 10-15 min to get it resharpened* The only reason i bore cut on that one tree is because my 046 the chain adjuster broke so i got my back up (J-red 2051 with a 16" bar) and the tree was to small so i double cut it. I am 16 and just starting to learn the trade with my father teaching me alot. But i have only been doing it for about 6 months
> thanks i did learn new something from your post Forestryworks "Try different hinge placements as well. Forward, middle, etc. The whole point of a face cut is to undermine the [well balanced] tree's center of gravity." Thanks for that tidbit!


 
Might not want to find out how fast a wot saw can come flying out of a cut if the cutters jam on that metal wedge, it could take a lot long than 15 miutes to touch up...

Remember to Look Up...


----------



## madhatte

Agreed with all on the plastic wedges. Lots of big suppliers sell good-quality "house brand" wedges for cheap; buy a case and don't look back. Your chains will thank you.


----------



## 056 kid

This website is ####ed up ya'll. Ive been fighting it for the last 30 minutes trying to post some pics.

They should have left it the way it damn was


----------



## GASoline71

ChainsawmanXX said:


> Yep had a couple of big white oaks that day and didnt wanna break my plastic ones so i just brought my metal ones, alittle more work but hey it works!





madhatte said:


> Agreed with all on the plastic wedges. Lots of big suppliers sell good-quality "house brand" wedges for cheap; buy a case and don't look back. Your chains will thank you.


 
Yep...

Plastic wedges being wider and with the narrower taper also give more lift. The metal splitting wedge does nothing more than bore itself into the cut without providing any lift at all. That's what their designed to do. You can tell by the pic in post #2124 of the big end of the spar that was posted. You can see the mark the splitting wedge left. A wide and tapered plastic wedge won't leave a mark like that. You can tell the splitting wedge wasn't providing any lift at all.

Keep cuttin', and askin' questions ChainsawmanXXX... practice, practice, practice... 

Gary


----------



## GASoline71

Here ya go Ted...


























Ted... If ya want I can put these in one of your posts... 

Gary


----------



## bitzer

Like Gary and Jameson said, plastic wedges lift while the splitting wedge moves the wood. 

I'll bet its a pita pounding it too. Get a plain old single bit as well. I'm sure that fiskers mall has some weight but those flares will do no good for plastic wedges. You want your pall flat and about as thick as a single wedge so when you have to double up you only smack one at a time.

Oh yeah, look up! 

Don't get caught up in the "east-coast-bore-everything-crowd," either. Experience will teach you when.


----------



## bitzer

The three things I could see against Amsteel:

Longevity-I don't see fibers doing well with abraison and dynamic/shock loading over time.

Price- I use 1/2" cable at a $1/foot. Amsteel is something like 4 or $5/foot. 

Rigidity- How often do you need a good stiff cable to poke under a log to set up a choke? 

I've never tried it and I would like to, but I can't see it doing as well as cable.


----------



## ChainsawmanXX

Thanks for all the pointers guys!


----------



## slowp

On the topic of falling, hint hint hint...

Sorry. Sometimes the camera blurs when zooming, sometimes it doesn't. I have read the manual and the manual lacks detail. I think it has a lot to do with how much light there is. 

Here is a two at once near the road video. Darn the brush!! This is a low elevation, ferny, mossy area. The skid trails are all located on high ground--little humps and ridges and such. Otherwise, they'd probably be shut down due to mud. 

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/U4UBoL2qnEk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


----------



## ChainsawmanXX

slowp said:


> On the topic of falling, hint hint hint...
> 
> Sorry. Sometimes the camera blurs when zooming, sometimes it doesn't. I have read the manual and the manual lacks detail. I think it has a lot to do with how much light there is.
> 
> Here is a two at once near the road video. Darn the brush!! This is a low elevation, ferny, mossy area. The skid trails are all located on high ground--little humps and ridges and such. Otherwise, they'd probably be shut down due to mud.
> 
> <iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/U4UBoL2qnEk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


 

The reason your camera blurs when you are zooming is because it is re-auto-focusing. It has to readjust the focus and the lighting when you zoom in like that. just thought you'd like that lol.


----------



## Gologit

ChainsawmanXX said:


> The reason your camera blurs when you are zooming is because it is re-auto-focusing. It has to readjust the focus and the lighting when you zoom in like that. just thought you'd like that lol.


 
 Alright! Us old duffers can teach you about falling...you can teach _us_ about all the electronic gadgets that drive us nuts.

And...just to pile it on a little, everybody is dead right about the splitting wedge. It can rip the teeth right off of a chain...think _shrapnel_. Leave it at the wood pile. Metal falling wedges have their place but for what you're doing plastic is a better choice.
Cheap wedges are okay but if you're having to drive wedges hard I'd go with K&H. I've had good luck with them.


----------



## paccity

na, it is not the camara, its the earthquakes from st helens .lol.


----------



## slowp

paccity said:


> na, it is not the camara, its the earthquakes from st helens .lol.



I forgot about that. It musta been!


----------



## ChainsawmanXX

Gologit said:


> Alright! Us old duffers can teach you about falling...you can teach _us_ about all the electronic gadgets that drive us nuts.
> 
> And...just to pile it on a little, everybody is dead right about the splitting wedge. It can rip the teeth right off of a chain...think _shrapnel_. Leave it at the wood pile. Metal falling wedges have their place but for what you're doing plastic is a better choice.
> Cheap wedges are okay but if you're having to drive wedges hard I'd go with K&H. I've had good luck with them.


 

Where can you get good K&H wedges? The only real logging supply around here is a Stihl dealer. Lol would Baileys be the best?


----------



## slowp

http://www.madsens1.com/catalog.htm

Page 3.


----------



## madhatte

I love those guys. I'll steer business their way any chance I get. I wonder how much I've spent there over the years, both privately and on behalf of employers? I bet easily over ten grand.


----------



## Hddnis

GASoline71 said:


> Here ya go Ted...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ted... If ya want I can put these in one of your posts...
> 
> Gary





All I'm getting are red x's.

Can everyone else see the pics fine?




Mr. HE


----------



## Gologit

Nope...red X's


----------



## Ramblewood

madhatte said:


> I love those guys. I'll steer business their way any chance I get. I wonder how much I've spent there over the years, both privately and on behalf of employers? I bet easily over ten grand.


 
Madsen's are the greatest ! Really good customer service, better prices, nicer people; at least on the phone .


----------



## ru55ell

Madsens!!!! they are the best!!!!!

Ru55ell


----------



## mdavlee

Yep madsens are awesome guys to deal with. :msp_thumbsup:


----------



## Plankton

Another +1 for madsens! they rock, fast shipping even here on the east coast!


----------



## Ramblewood

I wish Madsen's would post so I could REP them officially .


----------



## lfnh

Metals406 said:


> Here's one: http://www.treesearch.fs.fed.us/pubs/14002
> 
> Do a Google search, there are more.


 
some more from OSU:

http://www.orosha.org/grants/osuforest/osuoverview.html


----------



## 056 kid

http://www.orosha.org/pdf/grants/osu/synthropeusewinch.pdf


Maybe the 4th one I read. . .


----------



## Meadow Beaver

Plankton said:


> Another +1 for madsens! they rock, fast shipping even here on the east coast!



+2, I can vouch for Madsen's on how fast their shipping is to the yeast coast, my 066 handle arrived right after the guy finished making it.


----------



## ChrisF

Closest thing I've got to a falling pic this week.

Checking out a pair of limb-locked leaners. Not large trees by any means, but challenging and fun nonetheless.


----------



## bitzer

Wind delay. Started at 15-20mph this morning now more like 30-40. 

I apologize in advance for the piss poor quality and casual language. 

I did a little intro with this, but the sound didn't work. Hard maple sittn back maybe 10-15 feet. The wind was blowning 15-20, occasionally harder and diagonally across the lay. It was putting a good amount of pressure on the jack which definetely added to the sketch factor. Back-cut first, stood it up a little, then faced it. Gunned a little deep, but it worked out. Ended up lifting it 2.5" before she tipped. New grade 8 bolt and bigger plate held up well.


----------



## ChrisF

Can't view your clip. Says it's private. :/


----------



## bitzer

Thanks Chris! Here it is I think.

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/o1cuAD11kE4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


----------



## ChrisF

There we go.

Nice vid, thanks for sharing!


----------



## forestryworks

ChrisF said:


> There we go.
> 
> Nice vid, thanks for sharing!


 
Agreed, nice job!


----------



## hammerlogging

Great video Bitzerman!

Here's a few cell phone pics cutting a little ROW poplar



View attachment 172861


View attachment 172862


View attachment 172863


View attachment 172864




Wish I had figured out how to post them so they showed up.


----------



## forestryworks

hammerlogging said:


> Great video Bitzerman!
> 
> Here's a few cell phone pics cutting a little ROW poplar
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 172861
> 
> 
> View attachment 172862
> 
> 
> View attachment 172863
> 
> 
> View attachment 172864
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wish I had figured out how to post them so they showed up.


 
Nice pics Joe! I wanna join, lol.


----------



## madhatte

Bitzercreek:

best part about that vid was watching the wind in the trees in the background and worrying about the physics of the situation. Good on you for keeping your eyes on the top of the tree rather than the jack!


----------



## 056 kid

Hell yea Bitzer!

Nice Poplars Hammer!


----------



## Metals406

bitzercreek1 said:


> Thanks Chris! Here it is I think.
> 
> <iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/o1cuAD11kE4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


 
Bitz, you sound Irish in your video. You from Ireland?

Cool vid too!


----------



## schmuck.k

great job blitzer


----------



## bitzer

Hey, thanks a lot boys! 

Great pics Hammer! That the bore through the face to hit the far side in action? How many logs are you getting out of those poplars? Just wondering if they are some real tall sobs. Looks like fun!

Metals- Irish? Ha. ha. I'm mostly German. I was thinking I sounded like a damn canadian. (no offense to my canadian brethren). That camera is a cheap pos and the sound is a little screwy, but what I think you're hearin is the sweet wisconsin backwoods drawl. It gets worse after a few beers, but you should hear them boys up north towards the U.P. !

Madhatte- One thing I was always told by my physics professors is that wind is never taken into account when working problems. I really had to crank on it when the wind was blowin. I wonder what it'd be like with leaves on it? I'd say that really put that jack through its paces.


----------



## 056 kid

Leaves make a big difference, like sails. . . There have been days where it is dead calm most everywhere on the ground, but 60 feet up maybe there is all kinds of faint turbulence. the trees sit back, then lurch forward, then sit back, then ease forward and stay there for a minute, then you cut expecting it to fall, then it sits back and dosent fall, and you wait,_then_ it falls.just part of the job. Yea maybe a wedge might help. .


----------



## newmexico

*nuthin fancy*

entertainment only.. 

I like the music..

YouTube - ‪Abies concolor‬&rlm;


----------



## slowp

bitzercreek1 said:


> Hey, thanks a lot boys!
> 
> Great pics Hammer! That the bore through the face to hit the far side in action? How many logs are you getting out of those poplars? Just wondering if they are some real tall sobs. Looks like fun!
> 
> Metals- Irish? Ha. ha. I'm mostly German. I was thinking I sounded like a damn canadian. (no offense to my canadian brethren). That camera is a cheap pos and the sound is a little screwy, but what I think you're hearin is the sweet wisconsin backwoods drawl. It gets worse after a few beers, but you should hear them boys up north towards the U.P. !


 
That's where I lived. Up Nort. Next to the UP. The guys who came from there were sometimes un-understandable...yooooouuuu knowwwwwwwwww. I can do a Wisconsin accent naturally, cuz some of us grew up amongst Scandihoovian relatives here. 

You have too many different trees which don't have leaves to tell what they are in the winter. At least this PNWer had a hard time with that. 

Very few guys cut by hand up nort. I think there was one. 

Why can't Wisconsin be closer to here? Youse guys were pretty nice. No need to lock the house up where I lived. 

More videos please, except I was thinking, you need a hose for your handle so youse can get farther away, hey.


----------



## RandyMac

At least it wasn't a vid about handling his hose.


----------



## forestryworks

newmexico said:


> entertainment only..
> 
> I like the music..
> 
> YouTube - ‪Abies concolor‬&rlm;


 
Nice video. That thing sailed down the hill quite a ways. How steep was that slope?


----------



## ChrisF

Managed to snap an actual falling pic today, inbetween trying to look busy job while one of the project-managers were overseeing my falling.


----------



## bitzer

slowp said:


> That's where I lived. Up Nort. Next to the UP. The guys who came from there were sometimes un-understandable...yooooouuuu knowwwwwwwwww. I can do a Wisconsin accent naturally, cuz some of us grew up amongst Scandihoovian relatives here.
> 
> You have too many different trees which don't have leaves to tell what they are in the winter. At least this PNWer had a hard time with that.
> 
> Very few guys cut by hand up nort. I think there was one.
> 
> Why can't Wisconsin be closer to here? Youse guys were pretty nice. No need to lock the house up where I lived.
> 
> More videos please, except I was thinking, you need a hose for your handle so youse can get farther away, hey.


 
Snow day today. I plow in my free time. Taking a little break right now. 

Yeah I can clean it up when I have to and be articulate, but usually in the woods I let er slide a little. I'm not so bad with the "ya der heys," but as you can hear I've got some. 

Yep, theres a lot of bark to learn around here and even that can be misleading region to region. I'm still trying to figure out all of the spruces, hemlocks, pines, firs and other softies you all have out there. We do have some of them here. I've seen a few Dougs and Sitkas, transplants obviously. The hardwoods seem generally smaller up nort, the pines being the orginal primary. 

Where abouts were you at? I've spent a lot of time in the Minoqua-Eagle River-Boulder Junction area. Everyone owns at least one gun here if not many so we don't have to lock our doors. Ha.ha.


----------



## bitzer

RandyMac said:


> At least it wasn't a vid about handling his hose.


 
Don't worry Randy, that'll be coming soon. Have you stepped out on the Jetty yet? Not sure what kind of seasons you get out there.


----------



## bitzer

056 kid said:


> Leaves make a big difference, like sails. . . There have been days where it is dead calm most everywhere on the ground, but 60 feet up maybe there is all kinds of faint turbulence. the trees sit back, then lurch forward, then sit back, then ease forward and stay there for a minute, then you cut expecting it to fall, then it sits back and dosent fall, and you wait,_then_ it falls.just part of the job. Yea maybe a wedge might help. .


 
I wonder what all the pressure changes really are when jackin decent wood in the wind, not that little piddly thing I just showed. I remember (I think) Cody a while back talking about some big OG wood that he and his partner where falling into the wind. The jack kept redlining and finally went. I've spent my share of of aiming several clicks off the lay to adjust for wind. What amazes me is, when you're sitting in a deer stand 15' up, dead calm day and the tree starts swaying. You look around like wtf? Just a tiny breath a wind.


----------



## 056 kid

I remember cutting in a stand of poplars where I cut up like 5 trees, none of them wanted to fall.. So i was going to knock em over with a pusher. A few minutes later they all decided they would fall on their own. There was basically no wind on the ground that day, just breeze hitting the tops of the trees. Haha, I bet waiting for an OG redwood to peel back off the stump or open wide is quite scary!!


----------



## Gologit

bitzercreek1 said:


> I wonder what all the pressure changes really are when jackin decent wood in the wind, not that little piddly thing I just showed. I remember (I think) Cody a while back talking about some big OG wood that he and his partner where falling into the wind. The jack kept redlining and finally went. I've spent my share of of aiming several clicks off the lay to adjust for wind. What amazes me is, when you're sitting in a deer stand 15' up, dead calm day and the tree starts swaying. You look around like wtf? Just a tiny breath a wind.


 
A pressure gauge can be a real eye opener. There's usually quite a bit of safety margin built in to the red line but age and normal deterioration can make the limit something of a guessing game. I've seen jacks blow out and I've had pressure gauges and pump lines rupture. If you're right up to the limits of the jack and that happens it gets real ugly real quick. If I'm going to be jacking trees that I know will test the limits of the jack I'll carry some shims with me. Another good trick is to wedge as you jack and wedge as much as possible the whole time. That way if your jack blows out or if the tree sets back hard on the jack you might have a better chance of getting out without tearing up expensive equipment.
Another caution about jacks, as long as I'm blabbing away, is to never ever assume a jack will solve all your problems with a bad leaner. Using a combination cut, like the Coos Bay, along with a little gentle jacking, will usually produce better results. And it might result in a lot less cussing, too. :smile2:


----------



## Gologit

056 kid said:


> ... Haha, I bet waiting for an OG redwood to peel back off the stump or open wide is quite scary!!



It's only scary if you're close to it. Whenever I had one that wanted to walk back or go sideways on me I made sure to watch the whole procedure from a distance. Big distance. Lol...that's how you tell a faller that's had a bad day, the caulks on the toes of his boots will be worn down farther than the others...from being up on them running.


----------



## bitzer

Gologit said:


> A pressure gauge can be a real eye opener. There's usually quite a bit of safety margin built in to the red line but age and normal deterioration can make the limit something of a guessing game. I've seen jacks blow out and I've had pressure gauges and pump lines rupture. If you're right up to the limits of the jack and that happens it gets real ugly real quick. If I'm going to be jacking trees that I know will test the limits of the jack I'll carry some shims with me. Another good trick is to wedge as you jack and wedge as much as possible the whole time. That way if your jack blows out or if the tree sets back hard on the jack you might have a better chance of getting out without tearing up expensive equipment.
> Another caution about jacks, as long as I'm blabbing away, is to never ever assume a jack will solve all your problems with a bad leaner. Using a combination cut, like the Coos Bay, along with a little gentle jacking, will usually produce better results. And it might result in a lot less cussing, too. :smile2:


 

Thats some great info right there! I was thinking about that with the wedges. I stacked them and tried to keep them tight hoping my jack would hold. The hinge made me a little nervous too. Thanks Gologit!

Heres another one from the next day. Nevermind the cut farthest down. I kind of lost my mind on that one. Its kind of fun to watch, but hopefully I can get one of a better stump in the future. Each successive kerf should have been not as far back, kind of like steps and a chunk came out that was not supposed to. I also put a siswel in the far side for good measure. The tree started to grab my saw which delayed the motion a little I think. There was enough wood. My camera died as soon as the stem hit the ground. Oh well. Entertainment if anything else. 

[video=youtube;WSa0osZs8Z0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSa0osZs8Z0[/video]


----------



## hammerlogging

That was great bud. I saw a tree fall faster than any tree I've ever seen! I think you had 95% of the wod holding that thing cut up before youn went to hit the back. I saw full compression of your kerfs, and it rolled around I'd say right where you wanted it. 

I was rolling through my work today and slammed a face in a sizeable chestnut oak, it had th signs but I was just hummin along and didn't make much notice, the face dropped out and I reached around and threw in a dutchman and she sat. Argh. Sure enough, when I at that point had to deal with a my saw stuck in the face/dutchman in the off side I walked to face the tree and sure enough, hollow. I was lucky though, i got a wedge into the kerf and got the saw out, took out the wedge, back cut and let her go. 

I have improved my dutchman skills by only taking out wood on the front third of the hinge/back rather than what I was doing which was more like cutting off the whole underside in a line parallel with the falling direction, which caused too many to sit back despite desiring otherwise. Now they'r ecoming around better.

Good to see progress in technique, and work is good, but with this new gig, I sure do miss having a falling partner or more!


----------



## RandyMac

One of the noisiest faux pas was having a Redwood uproot with only half the backcut completed. At least it sort of went into the lay.
Ray and I waited two hours for a skybound tree to fall, there is definately a point were you walk aways away.


----------



## 056 kid

RandyMac said:


> One of the noisiest faux pas was having a Redwood uproot with only half the backcut completed. At least it sort of went into the lay.
> Ray and I waited two hours for a skybound tree to fall, there is definately a point were you walk aways away.


 
It's called, smoke and get high. . .



IM trashed/ / / / /


----------



## brian660

056 kid said:


> It's called, smoke and get high. . .
> 
> 
> 
> IM trashed/ / / / /


 
thats illegal


----------



## Frank Savage

OK, some small firewood poles here, as I´m teaching my right hand some stuff again after neck backbone injury. Rate me or have a fun.

The object of the first two photos is the snag in the middle. The first photo is from the left side, considering the direction of fall (to the left in the photo). This 12“DBH oak has a bit of head lean and quite a bit mass disbalance. Also, the top above that left-protruding branch was leaning toward the photographer and had most branches protruding this direction, making the crown quite flat. But major plane of this flatness was oriented from about 2 to 8 o´clock, compared to 6 to 12 o´clock direction of desired fall. The availible coridor was about 6´ wide for whole crown, since the object was not to even scratch young trees on it´s sides.




Standard procedure would be a fat hinge on the right side, relying on strengt in pull during some torque. I had serious doubts about this being the safe way here, since the snagwood is usually damn brittle in this area (actually, I haven´t seen more brittle oak wood in whole life).
So, no relying on any pull anywhere, do the best to force it to „sit down“ for any move. The plan: conventional face, opened with sth as a „boxcut“ on the right (pull side) and quite closed on the left. I bored for very uneven hingewood, very thin and tall with a shallow dutchman on the right side, thicker and short on the left side. With releasing the holding strap, hit the right hingewood a little bit more, so when the branches way above get first contact with other crown, the right side of the hingewood collapsed forward (but still atached), turning the tree counterclokwise and letting it sit to the right, aligning it with the free space and then forcing it to jump off the stump. The left part of the hinge was sheared off by the weight of the tree, rather than pulled apart as usual, as I hoped for. The difference in fiber pull/shear is visible in the photo
Aftermath: (This was some good ilustration about the need to KNOW by hands, not by mind variations through different places where one is cuting. I tried it somewhere else, where the wood is a bit different-without the need, having enought space, just to test it. No big succes, the estimations I did were not right-and the wood was brittle somehow differently, I can feel it, but not say how, why etc.) (That´s a stump B&C mounted) Branches got bent to compact form quite well, but frankly, I got a bit pinched twice during cutting them off. Some of them had 90 deg axial torque accomodated, making it very funny to cut. 




(Other site, one of bunch of trees) This oak has about 17“ DBH/stump dia, some head and left side lean. Althought a lot of space, not to disturb crowns of trees on the left protruding under few remaining branches of this snag above that free space was a must. Humboldt undercut btw, otherways nothing special I think.














And now, maybe get ready your laughpads (that´s not mistype). A logtruck as you have never seen it, I suppose:




This is a smaller load, the tree above was rigt to go twice for it. Once again:




In this second picture, the payload is somewhere around 650-700 lbs, since bottom two rows are mostly green 8-9 ft. oak posts. It´s fun to tow this by MTB, and more to watch the faces around. Main reason for this not-so-common transportation is that the trees were from higly protected potable water supply area. No big problem to get an acknowledgement with foresters and cut there (but very limited fuel/bar oil supply allowed), but quite a long lasting issue to get a permit from the water supervising company to drive there. This is easier, instant, no permit needed and helps to take me back to good shape.


----------



## 056 kid

Mmm mmm, nope.


----------



## Meadow Beaver

Well, atleast he's honest


----------



## ChrisF

brian660 said:


> thats illegal



A timber faller who does something naughty?!

SAY IT AIN'T SO!


----------



## RandyMac

bitzercreek1 said:


> Don't worry Randy, that'll be coming soon. Have you stepped out on the Jetty yet? Not sure what kind of seasons you get out there.


 
Bob, the ocean has been rough and dirty. been hankering for blackened Snapper.
I did check the bearded clams (mussels) for sand, very gritty, it takes a few days of clear seas for them to clear out.
There is always something in season, although they restricted the Ling Cod to the point where it is worse than Salmon fishing.

Hey Kid!! do you eyes glow in the dark?


----------



## bitzer

hammerlogging said:


> That was great bud. I saw a tree fall faster than any tree I've ever seen! I think you had 95% of the wod holding that thing cut up before youn went to hit the back. I saw full compression of your kerfs, and it rolled around I'd say right where you wanted it.
> 
> I was rolling through my work today and slammed a face in a sizeable chestnut oak, it had th signs but I was just hummin along and didn't make much notice, the face dropped out and I reached around and threw in a dutchman and she sat. Argh. Sure enough, when I at that point had to deal with a my saw stuck in the face/dutchman in the off side I walked to face the tree and sure enough, hollow. I was lucky though, i got a wedge into the kerf and got the saw out, took out the wedge, back cut and let her go.
> 
> I have improved my dutchman skills by only taking out wood on the front third of the hinge/back rather than what I was doing which was more like cutting off the whole underside in a line parallel with the falling direction, which caused too many to sit back despite desiring otherwise. Now they'r ecoming around better.
> 
> Good to see progress in technique, and work is good, but with this new gig, I sure do miss having a falling partner or more!


 
Thanks Hammer! I really debated posting this because I butchered that stump up so bad. I've made a lot better looking faces with the series of kerfs and I think it does make a difference having them staggered towards the front rather than all under each other. The action is interesting to see though. The top kerf I cut from where I wanted it to go almost all the way back to where it wanted to go. I pullled the saw out really quick and it sat down. It was limb-locked in the tree to the left orginally and it started creepin out. I put the undercut in next, then the next two kerfs. I went back up and hit the top one again and pulled out super quick and it nearly got me. Then I put the fourth one in when I realized my top two where tight to make sure I was going to get enough movement. The top moved completely free from the limb-lock at that point and several feet ahead. With it sitting down on three kerfs that dropped the butt a little over an inch. I don't remember exactly what an inch of lift will get you as far as movement of the top (obviously depending on the height) but I would think an inch of drop will get you somewhere in the ballpark of the same. 

I started doing this a lot with fence line trees a couple of years ago. Those trees are generally short, have huge crowns and a lot of weight leaning way out over a field. In order to easily back up to a butt for skidding I wanted a way to get them almost parallel to the fence line and then it was just back up and drag the whole damn thing across the field like a big piece of brocolli. It took a few times to realize when was the last possible second to pull out before it sat down hard. More than once I chopped the tension wood with my ax while I grabbed at the rear handle and waited for the butt to pass over it before I could grab my saw. The good thing about my job is I get to mess around with new things. I'm not necessarily under the gun of production and if I stuff one high up in a nearby tree theres no one to ##### at me about it. Just piece it down and learn. 

I saw that of your dutches in your last butt pics. Or at least thats what I think you're talking about. You do make some super clean cuts man!


----------



## bitzer

RandyMac said:


> Bob, the ocean has been rough and dirty. been hankering for blackened Snapper.
> I did check the bearded clams (mussels) for sand, very gritty, it takes a few days of clear seas for them to clear out.
> There is always something in season, although they restricted the Ling Cod to the point where it is worse than Salmon fishing.


 
Are you sure you're talkin about the ocean here? Sounds like some broads I used to know.


----------



## hammerlogging

scratched eyeball. day off with a tie wrapped around the head covering the affected bugger. Yes, I have a tie. You know, stepping up a roadbank to cut the timber above, ####er went straight in. Tried to finish out the day, between trying to get the thing out of my eye, which wasn't there cause its scratched, and cutting on a west slope in the afternoon with the damn sun out in front, can't look up can't look into the sun.... half speed and frustrating. Called off today, the loggers will be ok they can catch me but they can't pass me!


----------



## 056 kid

I hate getting an eye messed with. My last episode occurred on what was supposed to be a gravy day, cutting a few large trees to finish up a unit and going home early. Something,(a piece of wood likely) banged my eye just off center. It felt like there was something stuck in there good, and it got worse as the day went on. I ended up going to the emergency clinic place where some cute doctor gave me some drops and told me that I had scratched my retina and that there was nothing in there but there would be a lot of pain. It was no fun, but no where near as bad as burnt eyes from welding:monkey:
Hope your scratch gets better Joe, Mine was feeling normal and seeing clear after just a few days.

Randy, they look just like those of a dog.


----------



## bitzer

That sucks Joe! Eyes and fingers are the worst. Hope you're good to go soon. 

Back to the dutch.... So do you mean you were cutting off the far side of the hinge entirely after you put in the face, parallel to the lay and then back-cut? I'm having a hard time visualizing. And now you put in a face and then cut the far side third all the way off or just back. Just interesting to hear how you do it. I'm always taking notes from you guys in the big leagues. I'm just out here playin pick-up games when I can get them. I'm like a sponge looking for nutrients to absorb.


----------



## hammerlogging

Bitzer,
The following applies to the trees leaning roughly 110 degrees form the intended lay- typical on slopes where most lean one way, about 75 degrees from the intended lay, but some leaning the other way somewhat. So, most of the timber will go where you want it, sidehill, but some have to be wedged or swung to line up with everything else. Ocassionally due to lean a tree will have to go opposite all the other trees but the stem is still parallel, and some monster red oaks you just have to dump because they'll go there anyhow or you'll bust butt wood pulling them so there is no point in pulling them. Bragging rights on pulling big valuable logs does not go very far with timber buyers if you bust a veneer log! I'll say this though, you have to be careful where you dump a tree when you have a whole hillside of sidehill timber bucked below you! You can easily get in a situation where you have a tree to top where you really don't want to be standing. Spend 3 minutes loooking at whot is hooked behind what stumps, etc to keep #### from rolling, maybe a locking cut to keep #### in place, and of course, the russian coupling, and then the line, "#### the hookers" cause they can deal with it!

After facing the tree I was cutting out the entire offside half of the tree and then backcutting, but they were often setting back instead of coming around so they would have to be wedged over anyhow. So now, if you will picture the remaining wood after facing, I am still cutting about half way through my hinge but if the back wood is a half circle, half a pie, I am taking out one of the three pieces of pie left, the most offside piece. This seems to make the tree swing around more often and more predictably toward the intended lay much better then taking out the whole half, the whole offfside as I was doing.

The eye is already way better, I could cut tomorrow but I am going to look at a new tract, something for the future. Vision is a little fuzzy, I was having a hard time seeing well enough to get ahead on filing, but no more eye cover is necessary, most of the time. It looks like I've been hanging out with the kid! Probably should be!


----------



## 056 kid

The dutchman has as many variables as you want to put into it. But it is all in what kind of lean you are working with, and how much you can re direct the tree without it losing altitude. it gets really technical when it comes to how much wood you take out of the face,(kirf) depth wise, what kind of angles, and how much you open up the kirf, and in what increments. Get the angles and depth wrong and the tree settles,(on the saw of course!) use too much kirf and often the tree comes off the stump and does things not intended. I wish I could convey my thoughts better. . .


----------



## Rounder

hammerlogging said:


> scratched eyeball. day off with a tie wrapped around the head covering the affected bugger. Yes, I have a tie. You know, stepping up a roadbank to cut the timber above, ####er went straight in. Tried to finish out the day, between trying to get the thing out of my eye, which wasn't there cause its scratched, and cutting on a west slope in the afternoon with the damn sun out in front, can't look up can't look into the sun.... half speed and frustrating. Called off today, the loggers will be ok they can catch me but they can't pass me!


 
I'm wincing reading this Joe, not fun at all. Heal up - Sam


----------



## RandyMac

Yeah, made my eyes water, that is as bad as taking a stick in the ear.


----------



## Rounder

RandyMac said:


> Yeah, made my eyes water, that is as bad as taking a stick in the ear.


 
Dammit Randy, made me wince again, got the right eardrum twice now, don't work like it used to - Sam


----------



## madhatte

Sometimes I'm glad of my glasses. It's a bit of incidental protection that I don't have to remember to put on. Today, however, was not one of those days -- sweating in a late-season near-blizzard at 37F is pretty much blindness behind glasses. If I could have seen better, I might have taken some pictures, but I was just too grumpy to bother.


----------



## RandyMac

All the little things that hurt, sting and impede your progress.
It was a rare day that I went without some sort of fresh injury.

A real stinger is getting a cable cut across the palm.
My best one was when tying an 1 1/4" archline on a clevis hook.
A bit of a showoff at times, I fed the pigtail into the knot leaving barely a hand width left, it caught me just as I pulled my hand out. It kept the glove, I kept my fingers and I caught a jagger on the way out. Of course I did it again.


----------



## Meadow Beaver

Randy,
My dad had a similar incident with his grandpa. When my dad was 10 (1966) him and his grandpa were out in the pasture one night fixing up the barbed wire fence. His grandpa told him "when I tell you to pull on that wire pull it", so he tells him to him to pull on it, except he didn't pull it hard enough. This time he tells my dad "when I tell to pull on that ******, pull it like ya mean it". So he tells him to pull the wire, except this time he got pissed. His grandpa was holding the barbed wire and it sliced his hand wide open. My dad apoligizes, his grandpa said "Oh don't be sorry, I told you to pull on it and you did like I told ya to".


----------



## hammerlogging

RandyMac said:


> All the little things that hurt, sting and impede your progress.
> It was a rare day that I went without some sort of fresh injury.
> .


 
Occasionally, drop starting the saw, and for whatever the reason this time the compression rips the starter handle right out of your hand and whips you right there.

Slashed your way in to a place to stand to top a tree and the chain catches a short little piece of wood and throws it at you with those 13,8s your saw is turned up to....


----------



## ChrisF

RandyMac said:


> A bit of a showoff at times, I fed the pigtail into the knot leaving barely a hand width left, it caught me just as I pulled my hand out. It kept the glove, I kept my fingers and I caught a jagger on the way out. Of course I did it again.



That's some pucker-factor right there. Made me twitch just reading about it. Close calls are a mixed bag, emotionally.


----------



## Youngbuck20

066logger said:


> sorry for bringing up the old post but has anybody noticed these pics look totally photoshoped? i mean i aint callin anybody a liar but just look at the shadows and the bark pattern on the tree. either its just an optical illusion or those pics are well ya kno lol. :msp_confused:
> 
> oh by the way those pics are in post #509 i figured the pics would show up also when i quoted the post but it appears they didnt.


 
Sorry for bringing it up again but ya, photoshopped. Looking at the shadows it's easy to see it's fake.


----------



## bitzer

Youngbuck20 said:


> Sorry for bringing it up again but ya, photoshopped. Looking at the shadows it's easy to see it's fake.


 
If you have nothing useful to say post it in the off topic or saw forum. Just plain dumb.


----------



## RPM

Youngbuck20 said:


> Sorry for bringing it up again but ya, photoshopped. Looking at the shadows it's easy to see it's fake.


 
What is so hard to believe that there are trees this size in the PNW (Alaska, BC, Wash, Ore.).

The trees in those photos are Stitka spruce. My dad fell trees that big in the 60's in the Queen Charolette Islands - British Columbia. They still exist ...sorta (parks).

You should come out west and visit a strip and tell Coastal you think his photos are BS!


----------



## bitzer

hammerlogging said:


> Bitzer,
> The following applies to the trees leaning roughly 110 degrees form the intended lay- typical on slopes where most lean one way, about 75 degrees from the intended lay, but some leaning the other way somewhat. So, most of the timber will go where you want it, sidehill, but some have to be wedged or swung to line up with everything else. Ocassionally due to lean a tree will have to go opposite all the other trees but the stem is still parallel, and some monster red oaks you just have to dump because they'll go there anyhow or you'll bust butt wood pulling them so there is no point in pulling them. Bragging rights on pulling big valuable logs does not go very far with timber buyers if you bust a veneer log! I'll say this though, you have to be careful where you dump a tree when you have a whole hillside of sidehill timber bucked below you! You can easily get in a situation where you have a tree to top where you really don't want to be standing. Spend 3 minutes loooking at whot is hooked behind what stumps, etc to keep #### from rolling, maybe a locking cut to keep #### in place, and of course, the russian coupling, and then the line, "#### the hookers" cause they can deal with it!
> 
> After facing the tree I was cutting out the entire offside half of the tree and then backcutting, but they were often setting back instead of coming around so they would have to be wedged over anyhow. So now, if you will picture the remaining wood after facing, I am still cutting about half way through my hinge but if the back wood is a half circle, half a pie, I am taking out one of the three pieces of pie left, the most offside piece. This seems to make the tree swing around more often and more predictably toward the intended lay much better then taking out the whole half, the whole offfside as I was doing.
> 
> The eye is already way better, I could cut tomorrow but I am going to look at a new tract, something for the future. Vision is a little fuzzy, I was having a hard time seeing well enough to get ahead on filing, but no more eye cover is necessary, most of the time. It looks like I've been hanging out with the kid! Probably should be!


 
Good to hear your eye is doing better already. 

Thanks for the info Hammer! I got it. Thanks for the degree of lean info too. Dealing with a hillside of bucked up timber is something I have never had to deal with. Right there sets me back to I have really no clue about working the hills. I thought it was interesting to see those butt pics you posted a while back with the hinge completely cut on one side. I've always dutched mine from corner to corner. Gunned from where I want it to go back to where it wants to go, then undercut to put the face in where I want it to go. That way I would have enough hinge to avoid the pinch all the way across. Backcut-reach over and cut the compression side first then back to my side. As that dutch kerf closes it snaps that side of the hinge off or I end up cutting it off as its moving if I don't like what I'm seeing up top. I can see where you would get a hell of a lot more action the way you are doing it. Thanks! 


Kid,
I get what you're saying. The variables and options are endless. Different from tree to tree, species to species too. I've done a lot of playing around with different things myself. Thats what makes it so much fun. Thanks!


----------



## RandyMac

Someone has a touch of OG envy.


----------



## Meadow Beaver

Youngbuck20 said:


> Sorry for bringing it up again but ya, photoshopped. Looking at the shadows it's easy to see it's fake.


 
I've stood next to trees bigger than the one in those pictures.


----------



## paccity

same old people takin a poke. alott more than og envey. ha!


----------



## Youngbuck20

bitzer said:


> If you have nothing useful to say post it in the off topic or saw forum. Just plain dumb.


 
How is it off topic if it's a reply to something in the thread??? I believe there are trees this big but this isn't one of them. Piss poor photo shop job.


----------



## Youngbuck20

RPM said:


> What is so hard to believe that there are trees this size in the PNW (Alaska, BC, Wash, Ore.).
> 
> The trees in those photos are Stitka spruce. My dad fell trees that big in the 60's in the Queen Charolette Islands - British Columbia. They still exist ...sorta (parks).
> 
> You should come out west and visit a strip and tell Coastal you think his photos are BS!


 
I'd gladly go to BC to see trees like this. I just think the pic is fake. Shadows, angles, and lighting shows it's not real. Just take some time to look at the pic.


----------



## Metals406

Youngbuck20 said:


> I'd gladly go to BC to see trees like this. I just think the pic is fake. Shadows, angles, and lighting shows it's not real. Just take some time to look at the pic.


 
Dude. . . You're talking out'a the side of your head. Let it go, the picture is real.


----------



## Youngbuck20

Metals406 said:


> Dude. . . You're talking out'a the side of your head. Let it go, the picture is real.


 
Hahaha it's not real look how bright the tree is as opposed to everything else. Look at the bottom of the tree and how it's perfect, you tellin me he did that with a 48" bar? Come off it.


----------



## Metals406

Youngbuck20 said:


> Hahaha it's not real look how bright the tree is as opposed to everything else. Look at the bottom of the tree and how it's perfect, you tellin me he did that with a 48" bar? Come off it.


 
Listen, you best be sure of your facts before you call someone out as a liar. He posted that picture so folks could marvel at some big wood, not so some young know-it-all could stumble in here and start ####.

Contribute something or bugger off.


----------



## Meadow Beaver

Denying the photo as being real without asking about it just shows how stupid you are. Buzz off and hit up the off topic forum, your useless posts are unwanted here.


----------



## madhatte

Mighty upright of Youngbuck to read the article I posted on moire patterns and scan artifacting.


----------



## coastalfaller

Youngbuck20 said:


> Hahaha it's not real look how bright the tree is as opposed to everything else. Look at the bottom of the tree and how it's perfect, you tellin me he did that with a 48" bar? Come off it.


 
I don't recall anybody saying anything about a 48"bar. I guess the 6ft bar on the 3120 we used this past summer to rip logs for the Air Crane that wouldn't fly would be an illusion too! As I stated before, I can assure you that the pics and wood are quite real. I'm sure my bullbucker could find his way back to take you to that stump if you would like? As RPM and others stated, there are still lots of timber like that left out here. In fact, within the next year there is a slight possibility, and it is slight as I'm sure it will get axed (no pun intended) before we actually start, but we may be getting in to a patch of timber with some pretty close to what you see in the picture. If so, I will send some pics and maybe even some video for you to critique and debunk for me.


----------



## coastalfaller

*'Nother pic, and no, not photoshopped either.*

Same quarter as the other pic


----------



## Youngbuck20

Man you guys sure do get your backs up over a fake picture. Hope Santa was good to you this year.


----------



## paccity

aw , you caught us. there all fake.


----------



## Youngbuck20

coastalfaller said:


> Same quarter as the other pic


 
See now that looks real and I believe it's real. It's just that the other looks fake. You can't look at it and tell me it doesn't, not even a little bit.


----------



## 056 kid

Youngbuck20 said:


> Sorry for bringing it up again but ya, photoshopped. Looking at the shadows it's easy to see it's fake.


 
Are you one of those ignorant mother####ers that thinks everything beyond your mental capacity is fake?? Like those whistle blower morons on youtube. "IF I AINT SEEN IT, IT DONT EXIST, AND IF I CANT TOUCH IT, IT AINT REAL DERP DERP!"

Even if the picture is fake, I would rather pretend than kill the buzz. So do is a favor and #### off. . .


----------



## Metals406

This post is fake.


----------



## madhatte




----------



## Meadow Beaver

Youngbuck20 said:


> See now that looks real and I believe it's real. It's just that the other looks fake. You can't look at it and tell me it doesn't, not even a little bit.


 
Just let it go dude, we don't need you to stir the pot.


----------



## Youngbuck20

madhatte said:


>


 
It's not a pipe it's a pic of a pipe. Your fake!


----------



## paccity

Ha!


----------



## Youngbuck20

056 kid said:


> Are you one of those ignorant mother####ers that thinks everything beyond your mental capacity is fake?? Like those whistle blower morons on youtube. "IF I AINT SEEN IT, IT DONT EXIST, AND IF I CANT TOUCH IT, IT AINT REAL DERP DERP!"
> 
> Even if the picture is fake, I would rather pretend than kill the buzz. So do is a favor and #### off. . .


 
You sure have a mouth on ya eh. Pretty ignorant callin me names and questioning my intelligence I'd say. Especially over what is my opinion on a picture. I never made fun of anyone or called anyone anything, way to take it too far. Reading back it looks as though other people have the same opinion as I do. They never got treated with the same disrespect as I'm getting. No kid I'm not one of those morons but I know I can't be as smart as you, you've known everything since you came out of your mothers womb. I'm willing to drop this silly argument if you guys are. It was just my opinion, didn't know it was against the law to have one.


----------



## Gologit

Meadow Beaver said:


> Just let it go dude, we don't need you to stir the pot.


 
Yup...he's just another rookie with more mouth than experience. He'll either learn or he'll leave...his choice entirely.

In the meantime though, it would be nice if he S-T-F- U.


----------



## paccity

you stired the pot.


----------



## paccity

why dose the f and l get most of the ankle bitters?


----------



## Youngbuck20

A rookie on judging if a pic is real or not? Riiiight. Well because that makes complete sense and it seems as though you don't agree to disagree, I'm here to stay. So no I won't "####"


----------



## Gologit

paccity said:


> why dose the f and l get most of the ankle bitters?


 
Beats me. We sure get our share. It's always easy to pick them out, though. With as many genuine loggers as there are on this forum a know-nothing loud mouthed rookie always stands out.
They come, they go. Sometimes they just don't go quick enough.


----------



## paccity

if it is'nt pic's , it's bar's , chains, cuts, so on and so on.:bang:


----------



## Youngbuck20

He is a loud mouth but thats no reason to talk about the kid that way


----------



## paccity

opcorn: got thothin beter now, it snowin sideways.


----------



## 056 kid

Youngbuck20 said:


> You sure have a mouth on ya eh. Pretty ignorant callin me names and questioning my intelligence I'd say. Especially over what is my opinion on a picture. I never made fun of anyone or called anyone anything, way to take it too far. Reading back it looks as though other people have the same opinion as I do. They never got treated with the same disrespect as I'm getting. No kid I'm not one of those morons but I know I can't be as smart as you, you've known everything since you came out of your mothers womb. I'm willing to drop this silly argument if you guys are. It was just my opinion, didn't know it was against the law to have one.


 
Its my opinion:msp_glare:


----------



## RPM

Youngbuck20 said:


> Man you guys sure do get your backs up over a fake picture. Hope Santa was good to you this year.


 
Go away dude ... you're embarrassing us other Canadians out here in the west.


----------



## Meadow Beaver

Gologit said:


> Yup...he's just another rookie with more mouth than experience. He'll either learn or he'll leave...his choice entirely.
> 
> In the meantime though, it would be nice if he *S-T-F- U*.


 
LOL, a nice hot cup of S-T-F-U.


----------



## Gologit

RPM said:


> Go away dude ... you're embarrassing us other Canadians out here in the west.


 
It's okay. You Left Coast Canadians are alright. Well, most of you anyway.:msp_wink:

Ontario? Does Ontario compare to British Columbia like Kansas compares to Oregon?


----------



## Youngbuck20

Haha you guys sure are a sad bunch. Especially you Dorothy.


----------



## paccity

RPM said:


> Go away dude ... you're embarrassing us other Canadians out here in the west.


 
i thought that it's france on the east side. lol. just kidin.


----------



## RPM

Gologit said:


> It's okay. You Left Coast Canadians are alright. Well, most of you anyway.:msp_wink:
> 
> Ontario? Does Ontario compare to British Columbia like Kansas compares to Oregon?


 
:msp_laugh: Can I plead the 5th? Honestly, I like all the folk from Kansas that I have meet on this forum. Ontario...like you said - most anyway!


----------



## paccity

Youngbuck20 said:


> Haha you guys sure are a sad bunch. Especially you Dorothy.


 
why not cut your losses and have a relavant discution about f&l topics. some might even forgive ya.


----------



## RPM

paccity said:


> i thought that it's france on the east side. lol. just kidin.


 
same same .... gotta be careful my wife was born in Montreal :msp_scared:


----------



## Rounder

This place just keeps getting weirder by the day. 

I doubt this'll get things back on track but I'll try....no falling pics today....did get a new falling saw

View attachment 173714


Starting a new little job next week, should be some nice cutting. I'll bring the camera for you guys.
Hope all are well - Sam

Oh yeah, almost forgot...:notrolls2:


----------



## Meadow Beaver

Nice saw Sam, that 440 should be a keeper.


----------



## paccity

RPM said:


> same same .... gotta be careful my wife was born in Montreal :msp_scared:


 
ya, got a little french canuk in my self. andsome from bc.


----------



## Metals406

mtsamloggit said:


> This place just keeps getting weirder by the day.
> 
> I doubt this'll get things back on track but I'll try....no falling pics today....did get a new falling saw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Starting a new little job next week, should be some nice cutting. I'll bring the camera for you guys.
> Hope all are well - Sam
> 
> Oh yeah, almost forgot...:notrolls2:


 
Good looking saw Sam!


----------



## Gologit

mtsamloggit said:


> This place just keeps getting weirder by the day.


 
I think it must be cabin fever, Sam. Nice saw...now get out there and make some noise with it. :msp_biggrin:


----------



## Rounder

Gologit said:


> I think it must be cabin fever, Sam. Nice saw...now get out there and make some noise with it. :msp_biggrin:


 
Tried to make some noise this morning Bob. Damn wind whipping the snow around got so bad that I couldn't see a tree 2 feet from my face. Stuck back in my cabin. I hear ya on the cabin fever. Hopefully things will improve one of these days.....might warm up by June or so, lol.

Take care- Sam


----------



## RandyMac

Hey! Look!
A shiny thing!


----------



## Rounder

Don't be makin' fun of my creamsickle Randy....the ones that say 440 on top ain't too bad when they're ported , lol - Sam


----------



## banshee67

that giant tree pic is hilarious
its funny how out of all the pics that person took, only THAT particular picture is all crazy looking, with the shadows ALL messed up. just like most UFO videos you see are all blurry with the camera shaking the whole time.
with a tree that size, you figure the person would have at least taken more than ONE pic..? and of all the pics, such a coincidence for that particular one to come out like that.. :msp_rolleyes:


----------



## bitzer

Good to see you around Sam! 

Nice mint 440 too!


----------



## bitzer

banshee67 said:


> that giant tree pic is hilarious
> its funny how out of all the pics that person took, only THAT particular picture is all crazy looking, with the shadows ALL messed up. just like most UFO videos you see are all blurry with the camera shaking the whole time.
> with a tree that size, you figure the person would have at least taken more than ONE pic..? and of all the pics, such a coincidence for that particular one to come out like that.. :msp_rolleyes:


 
Two words for ya- **********!

Ok, four words- Old Growth Sitka Spruce.

Some of youse need to read up and learn something before you talk.


----------



## Rounder

bitzer said:


> Good to see you around Sam!
> 
> Nice mint 440 too!


 
Thanks pard, same as well to meadow beaver and Nate.
Keep it up with the pics and vids, always enjoy 'em. Pretty dang slick jack you came up with - Sam


----------



## bitzer

mtsamloggit said:


> Thanks pard, same as well to meadow beaver and Nate.
> Keep it up with the pics and vids, always enjoy 'em. Pretty dang slick jack you came up with - Sam


 
Thanks man! I appreciate it. Can't wait to see some pics from your next one.


----------



## forestryworks

Howdy Sam!


----------



## hammerlogging

mtsamloggit said:


> Tried to make some noise this morning Bob. Damn wind whipping the snow around got so bad that I couldn't see a tree 2 feet from my face. Stuck back in my cabin. I hear ya on the cabin fever. Hopefully things will improve one of these days.....might warm up by June or so, lol.
> 
> Take care- Sam


 
If coastal wasn't such a ##### he wouldn't have to fake that big timber!!!!!

:msp_thumbsup:

I crack myself up.

I feel really bad cause I sent MTSam an email and mentioned getting my garden ready, forgot that it was still -35 there! Oops, sorry.

Happy tree killing everyone.


----------



## Rounder

No worries Joe, I'll chip some ice off my saw and stick it in the mail for you tomorrow, lol. Have fun with the garden, I really enjoy ours. We're just a little behind your growing season around here - Sam


----------



## slowp

hammerlogging said:


> Happy tree killing everyone.



Don't need to kill them, they are committing suicide. It was a little bit creepy to be driving in and working around them. Limbs and such also coming down with the whoosh of the snow falling off so we couldn't see what was happening. 

I see I missed a fight today. :msp_crying:


----------



## coastalfaller

hammerlogging said:


> If coastal wasn't such a ##### he wouldn't have to fake that big timber!!!!!
> 
> :msp_thumbsup:
> 
> I crack myself up.
> 
> I feel really bad cause I sent MTSam an email and mentioned getting my garden ready, forgot that it was still -35 there! Oops, sorry.
> 
> Happy tree killing everyone.


 
Hahaha! Right on, hammer!


----------



## coastalfaller

*Feeling a big need to defend myself........*

.......so here's a couple more


----------



## Rounder

Beautiful pics and clean cuts - Sam


----------



## RandyMac

coastalfaller said:


> .......so here's a couple more


 
No need to here.

Scanned photos can get weird, I have plenty that need a go over. Very few will show up the way they should.

That is one dammed big Spruce.


----------



## slowp

And we didn't take a lot of pictures because we had to pay to get them developed.
It was primitive, dangerous times then. Trees were big, the internet did not exist. There were no cell phones!! You young'uns might have died from a lack of communications!


----------



## RandyMac

I made do with those cheapy 110 cameras, went through 5 or 6 a year, they got dirt in them or were damaged. They weren't real good cameras.


----------



## coastalfaller

slowp said:


> And we didn't take a lot of pictures because we had to pay to get them developed.
> It was primitive, dangerous times then. Trees were big, the internet did not exist. There were no cell phones!! You young'uns might have died from a lack of communications!


 
Haha! I hear that, Slowp! All I can say regarding my daughter is thank god for unlimited text cell phone plans!


----------



## coastalfaller

RandyMac said:


> No need to here.
> 
> Scanned photos can get weird, I have plenty that need a go over. Very few will show up the way they should.
> 
> That is one dammed big Spruce.


 
Thanks, Randy. We had some heli wood last summer that had some nice spruce in it, not nearly as big, but about 5-6ft on the butt and close to 200 ft tall with just a tuft of limbs at the top. Beautiful stuff to fall. I was way too busy at the time and never thought to grab some pics, I'll have to see if some of the guys did!


----------



## Frank Savage

Sorry for bringing up another old post, but I posted some light stuff photos for (hopefuly) judgement from ol´pards and maybe for some fun, but for some reason, whole next page and over a half was written before my post apeared on "time correct" place-it´s now on p. 146, #2186. 
And now I see it stuck up under some mess from someone who quite evidently hadn´t ever seen what happens to classic film when exposed under a bit flat light on higly contrasting scene, then having nerves during developing it and dozen papers wasted while prying it into positive. Every step means sacrification of some (or a lot of) resolution of photomaterial for ability to accomodate the contrast somehow or anyhow, thus the grain rise in size. Even professional scanners, designed for the one and only purpose of scanning negatives are having big problems with negatives from such scenes. And those desktop bastards have usualy no problem to make a single blot from a maple tree, on which you can in negative (even on positive) distinguish leafs quite clearly.

Sorry boy, I´m a newby here also, but I´m here to watch some informative posts, photos, videos and big ol´trees. I realy do not want to dig to them through such stupid kidding and t-shirt jerking as you showed. I´m here for relax and enyoment, not to get annoyed. Buy yourself a Stihl in child´s collectiles part of their e-shop, it may help you during your photoshop self-education. For sure, it don´t bite back for bad manners and handling.

Edit: Last paragraph was aimed on some loud short-spike or antlerless creature, which was out of proper rut period for over four pages, being even too young for it as it seems.


----------



## paccity

Frank Savage said:


> Sorry for bringing up another old post, but I posted some light stuff photos for (hopefuly) judgement from ol´pards and maybe for some fun, but for some reason, whole next page and over a half was written before my post apeared on "time correct" place-it´s now on p. 146, #2186.
> And now I see it stuck up under some mess from someone who quite evidently hadn´t ever seen what happens to classic film when exposed under a bit flat light on higly contrasting scene, then having nerves during developing it and dozen papers wasted while prying it into positive. Every step means sacrification of some (or a lot of) resolution of photomaterial for ability to accomodate the contrast somehow or anyhow, thus the grain rise in size. Even professional scanners, designed for the one and only purpose of scanning negatives are having big problems with negatives from such scenes. And those desktop bastards have usualy no problem to make a single blot from a maple tree, on which you can in negative (even on positive) distinguish leafs quite clearly.
> 
> Sorry boy, I´m a newby here also, but I´m here to watch some informative posts, photos, videos and big ol´trees. I realy do not want to dig to them through such stupid kidding and t-shirt jerking as you showed. I´m here for relax and enyoment, not to get annoyed. Buy yourself a Stihl in child´s collectiles part of their e-shop, it may help you during your photoshop self-education. For sure, it don´t bite back for bad manners and handling.
> 
> Edit: Last paragraph was aimed on some loud short-spike or antlerless creature, which was out of proper rut period for over four pages, being even too young for it as it seems.


 
very good, and welcome and enjoy.


----------



## Samlock

Frank Savage said:


> And now, maybe get ready your laughpads (that´s not mistype). A logtruck as you have never seen it, I suppose:



That is something I have never seen before. Nothing to laugh at, though. 

Good thing you mentioned your pictures once again, Frank, I missed them on the first round. Nice aiming! If the described cut works there, then it works.


----------



## Dayto

Hey Coastal.
Did you guys ever tramp out at Gordon River Main, ? Huge fir there back in the day ...


----------



## bitzer

Awesome pics Coastal! That sitka sure looks like its fun to cut. Super clean looking wood. Great pics man!


Hammer, I thought you were kidding about the garden! Sheesh, I've got a 3 foot snow bank growing in mine. If we get everything in by late April/early May its a miracle. The threat of frost stays long up this way.


----------



## coastalfaller

Dayto said:


> Hey Coastal.
> Did you guys ever tramp out at Gordon River Main, ? Huge fir there back in the day ...


 
Hey Dayto,

Nope never did. Mainly in the Charlottes, north end of the Island, some around Franklin, mid coast. The usual suspects, LOL! Where abouts you working at?


----------



## coastalfaller

bitzer said:


> Awesome pics Coastal! That sitka sure looks like its fun to cut. Super clean looking wood. Great pics man!
> 
> 
> Hammer, I thought you were kidding about the garden! Sheesh, I've got a 3 foot snow bank growing in mine. If we get everything in by late April/early May its a miracle. The threat of frost stays long up this way.


 
Thanks, Bitzer, yeah, it's a blast to cut. My favorite. Can be stubborn though too, have to make sure your undercut opening is wide and you have all the guts cut out of them, other wise you'll be working way too hard and taking way too long to get it over. Don't ask me how I know that!!! LOL!!


----------



## ChainsawmanXX

Frank Savage said:


> OK, some small firewood poles here, as I´m teaching my right hand some stuff again after neck backbone injury. Rate me or have a fun.
> 
> The object of the first two photos is the snag in the middle. The first photo is from the left side, considering the direction of fall (to the left in the photo). This 12“DBH oak has a bit of head lean and quite a bit mass disbalance. Also, the top above that left-protruding branch was leaning toward the photographer and had most branches protruding this direction, making the crown quite flat. But major plane of this flatness was oriented from about 2 to 8 o´clock, compared to 6 to 12 o´clock direction of desired fall. The availible coridor was about 6´ wide for whole crown, since the object was not to even scratch young trees on it´s sides.
> 
> 
> Standard procedure would be a fat hinge on the right side, relying on strengt in pull during some torque. I had serious doubts about this being the safe way here, since the snagwood is usually damn brittle in this area (actually, I haven´t seen more brittle oak wood in whole life).
> So, no relying on any pull anywhere, do the best to force it to „sit down“ for any move. The plan: conventional face, opened with sth as a „boxcut“ on the right (pull side) and quite closed on the left. I bored for very uneven hingewood, very thin and tall with a shallow dutchman on the right side, thicker and short on the left side. With releasing the holding strap, hit the right hingewood a little bit more, so when the branches way above get first contact with other crown, the right side of the hingewood collapsed forward (but still atached), turning the tree counterclokwise and letting it sit to the right, aligning it with the free space and then forcing it to jump off the stump. The left part of the hinge was sheared off by the weight of the tree, rather than pulled apart as usual, as I hoped for. The difference in fiber pull/shear is visible in the photo
> Aftermath: (This was some good ilustration about the need to KNOW by hands, not by mind variations through different places where one is cuting. I tried it somewhere else, where the wood is a bit different-without the need, having enought space, just to test it. No big succes, the estimations I did were not right-and the wood was brittle somehow differently, I can feel it, but not say how, why etc.) (That´s a stump B&C mounted) Branches got bent to compact form quite well, but frankly, I got a bit pinched twice during cutting them off. Some of them had 90 deg axial torque accomodated, making it very funny to cut.
> [URL=http://www.imghosting.cz/view-31leaner_02.jpg]
> 
> 
> 
> (Other site, one of bunch of trees) This oak has about 17“ DBH/stump dia, some head and left side lean. Althought a lot of space, not to disturb crowns of trees on the left protruding under few remaining branches of this snag above that free space was a must. Humboldt undercut btw, otherways nothing special I think.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And now, maybe get ready your laughpads (that´s not mistype). A logtruck as you have never seen it, I suppose:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a smaller load, the tree above was rigt to go twice for it. Once again:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In this second picture, the payload is somewhere around 650-700 lbs, since bottom two rows are mostly green 8-9 ft. oak posts. It´s fun to tow this by MTB, and more to watch the faces around. Main reason for this not-so-common transportation is that the trees were from higly protected potable water supply area. No big problem to get an acknowledgement with foresters and cut there (but very limited fuel/bar oil supply allowed), but quite a long lasting issue to get a permit from the water supervising company to drive there. This is easier, instant, no permit needed and helps to take me back to good shape.


 

I hate falling smaller trees :censored::censored:


----------



## ChrisF

ChainsawmanXX said:


> I hate falling smaller trees :censored::censored:


 

I do that a lot, I don't know if I'm mistaken but they do seem a bit more "squirrely" on the way down than bigger trees. And hang up in other trees at the drop of a hat. Not fun, not scary, just a PITA.

Ah well, not every day is x-mas.


----------



## upstateny

ChrisF said:


> I do that a lot, I don't know if I'm mistaken but they do seem a bit more "squirrely" on the way down than bigger trees. And hang up in other trees at the drop of a hat. Not fun, not scary, just a PITA.
> 
> Ah well, not every day is x-mas.


 
Little trees are the ones that will hurt you. Cutters typically let their guard down with smaller trees thinking that its a "walk in the park."


----------



## forestryworks

Cut a little timber today for a local logger, little mom and pop outfit.

Nice to cut some green timber for a change.











Gotta have a humboldt every now and then :msp_biggrin:


----------



## 056 kid

Hell yea, there ya go!


----------



## Metals406

Saw these on FB. . . Excellent!


----------



## Greystoke

"Yeah I'm treeeeeeeeeeeee, tree fallin'" Good job pard  

On another note: I see there are a few more nippleheads on here callin out Jordan's pic??? Dang little pissant trolls just won't stay away will they? I say, unless you are willing to post some respectful pic's or a respectful post that maybe...you know....shows some INTELLIGENCE on the subject, KEEP YOUR PIEHOLE SHUT! All that you morons do is show what a fine specimen of a little maggot that you are when you do that ####, NUFF SAID! :bang:


----------



## GASoline71

Cody... it's just too easy for them to hide behind their keyboard. Ticks me off too... but therewill always be trolls... which sucks.

Gary


----------



## Greystoke

GASoline71 said:


> Cody... it's just too easy for them to hide behind their keyboard. Ticks me off too... but therewill always be trolls... which sucks.
> 
> Gary


 
I know Gary...much as I try to ignore their b.s., I just can't help myself sometimes....specially when I have a little extry caffeine flowin through my veins!


----------



## madhatte

forestryworks said:


> Cut a little timber today for a local logger, little mom and pop outfit.



I see you took the job. Excellent work, as usual. Carry on smartly!


----------



## Gologit

forestryworks said:


> Cut a little timber today for a local logger, little mom and pop outfit.
> 
> Nice to cut some green timber for a change.


 
 Now you've gone from _getting_ to cut wood to _having_ to cut wood. Good feeling, though...isn't it?


----------



## RandyMac

It's nice to be paid.
I hope it was more than the $50 a day old Ray paid me.


----------



## forestryworks

Gologit said:


> Now you've gone from _getting_ to cut wood to _having_ to cut wood. Good feeling, though...isn't it?



Refreshing, actually.



RandyMac said:


> It's nice to be paid.
> I hope it was more than the $50 a day old Ray paid me.


 
It's as much as I cut, lol. Paid by the ton. Select cut type thing, but the damn trees aren't marked  Talk about being slowed tremendously.

Cutting hardwoods 14in. and bigger. I'll mark the damn things myself if I have to - could easily make up the time not cutting.


----------



## RandyMac

Run a line from a compressor, hook up a Rainbird, spray blue paint, all done.


----------



## Metals406

RandyMac said:


> It's nice to be paid.
> I hope it was more than the $50 a day old Ray paid me.


 
Yeah, but $50 was worth more back in the day. The dollar was probably worth 60¢ then, compared to 2¢ today. 

I was telling Jameson earlier today, I was talking to a short logger in ID last week. He's shutting down for now, cause he can only get $600 MBF for cedar, and $200 and some for pine.


----------



## Greystoke

Metals406 said:


> Yeah, but $50 was worth more back in the day. The dollar was probably worth 60¢ then, compared to 2¢ today.
> 
> I was telling Jameson earlier today, I was talking to a short logger in ID last week. He's shutting down for now, cause he can only get $600 MBF for cedar, and $200 and some for pine.


 
Sign of the times  Pathetic!


----------



## 056 kid

forestryworks said:


> Refreshing, actually.
> 
> 
> 
> It's as much as I cut, lol. Paid by the ton. Select cut type thing, but the damn trees aren't marked  Talk about being slowed tremendously.
> 
> Cutting hardwoods 14in. and bigger. I'll mark the damn things myself if I have to - could easily make up the time not cutting.


 
Aaa, Jameson, you cannot let unmarked timber slow you down. I have cut alot of tracts that where 12'' and above, 14, 16,20 bla bla bla. Usually that is the rule when the timber is not marked. put a scratch on your bar to help measure, but don't fret if you cut a few 12 inchers. I find that in the woods, what looks like a 10 incher is usually more than a foot. . .


----------



## bitzer

Way to go Jameson! Nice pics man!


----------



## hammerlogging

Yeah you'll get used to it fast, and how to work your patch to keep things rolling smoothly. If you're not right under a dozer or skidder, keep in mind cutting in strips at least 200' wide, figuring extraction route for how you lay the timber. If you are concerned about the diameter, you can also make yourself a string that is the right length for your diameter, hence "hug 'em and cut 'em".

So much for silviculture, welcome to hardwood logging.


----------



## madhatte

Get a Cruiser's Crutch or some prisms. They'll pay for themselves in a few trees. If you know what the landowner wants the stand to look like later, why mark anything if you can meet the goals up front? Later, when you're rich as hell from your successful projects drop the preposterous cash on a Relaskop; it really is a great tool but it really does cost way more than it's worth.

Also:



hammerlogging said:


> you can also make yourself a string that is the right length for your diameter



I do this -- I have a length of parachute cord with knots tied at all of the important distances. It's cheap, lightweight, and effective. DOOO EEEEEETTTT.


----------



## RandyMac

I was almost arrested for carrying a piece of string.


----------



## madhatte

I believe it. There are signs where I work forbidding "Measurement, Mapping, Photography", and a whole bunch of other things that are really just Business As Usual. My paperwork keeps me out of trouble -- contractors don't always have the same experience. I never worked for this ownership as a contractor, but, knowing what I know now, I would certainly have had a few "requirements" before signing anything that I wouldn't have on any other ownership.


----------



## Samlock

madhatte said:


> Get a Cruiser's Crutch or some prisms. They'll pay for themselves in a few trees. If you know what the landowner wants the stand to look like later, why mark anything if you can meet the goals up front? Later, when you're rich as hell from your successful projects drop the preposterous cash on a Relaskop; it really is a great tool but it really does cost way more than it's worth.



The laser pointers are in fact quite practical. The price was last year approx 300 USD. Gator Eyes


----------



## forestryworks

madhatte said:


> I see you took the job. Excellent work, as usual. Carry on smartly!


 


056 kid said:


> Aaa, Jameson, you cannot let unmarked timber slow you down. I have cut alot of tracts that where 12'' and above, 14, 16,20 bla bla bla. Usually that is the rule when the timber is not marked. put a scratch on your bar to help measure, but don't fret if you cut a few 12 inchers. I find that in the woods, what looks like a 10 incher is usually more than a foot. . .


 


bitzer said:


> Way to go Jameson! Nice pics man!


 


hammerlogging said:


> Yeah you'll get used to it fast, and how to work your patch to keep things rolling smoothly. If you are concerned about the diameter, you can also make yourself a string that is the right length for your diameter, hence "hug 'em and cut 'em".
> 
> So much for silviculture, welcome to hardwood logging.


 
Thanks fellas!


----------



## Gologit

madhatte said:


> I do this -- I have a length of parachute cord with knots tied at all of the important distances. It's cheap, lightweight, and effective. DOOO EEEEEETTTT.


 

Yup...stick a tape nail in one end and you're good to go. Low tech is good.


----------



## RandyMac

Yep, no moving parts is good.


----------



## coastalfaller

Right on, Jameson! Keep on cutting!


----------



## forestryworks

Did a few hazard trees today. Here is one of them, the biggest of the day.

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/NdiZHqv9W4I" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


----------



## paccity

good one, not bad for a punky pos. was it the 1st of the day? looked clean before that one.


----------



## hammerlogging

Remember to shoot for micro hinge on that hardwood, to save butt log value and to make the new boss happy.


----------



## madhatte

Samlock said:


> The laser pointers are in fact quite practical. The price was last year approx 300 USD. Gator Eyes



I roll pro when I can -- this is the gear I carry right now:







Only difference is that my rangefinder is a 200b rather than a 360b, which means it lacks the built-in compass. I hope to get a 360b ASAP, Boss Willing. The "b" stands for Bluetooth, which means the doohickey automatically sends its data to the GPS unit. With my setup, the only thing I have to enter manually is the azimuth. 

Here it is on a pole of my own design which incorporates a camera tripod ball head and a locking platform for the GPS:






As you can imagine, circular plots are pretty much effortless. The tripod head has degrees marked on it, so I simply align the rangefinder to North when I establish a plot, and read the numbers as I turn the head. I only need to look at the compass once. I won't even have to do that once I get a 360b.


----------



## forestryworks

madhatte said:


> I roll pro when I can -- this is the gear I carry right now:
> 
> Only difference is that my rangefinder is a 200b rather than a 360b, which means it lacks the built-in compass. I hope to get a 360b ASAP, Boss Willing. The "b" stands for Bluetooth, which means the doohickey automatically sends its data to the GPS unit. With my setup, the only thing I have to enter manually is the azimuth.
> 
> Here it is on a pole of my own design which incorporates a camera tripod ball head and a locking platform for the GPS:
> 
> As you can imagine, circular plots are pretty much effortless. The tripod head has degrees marked on it, so I simply align the rangefinder to North when I establish a plot, and read the numbers as I turn the head. I only need to look at the compass once. I won't even have to do that once I get a 360b.



Fancy stuff.


----------



## paccity

looks like your allmost spoiled.:msp_thumbup:


----------



## madhatte

I tell you what... it doesn't hurt productivity!


----------



## paccity

productivity is good.


----------



## Samlock

madhatte said:


> I roll pro when I can -- this is the gear I carry right now:



Hey, Madhatte. I'm not familiar with that gear. Which parameters it gives you?

You are checking the stand after the cut there?


----------



## madhatte

In that particular picture, I'm counting trees standing within a certain radius, to ensure that the logger has thinned to the proper density. I also use that set-up to install permanent circular plots, both fixed- and variable-radius. It's especially useful for survival surveys where we want to revisit the exact same trees later.


----------



## Jacob J.

The key to purchaser select cutting is not to think about it too much, that is what will really slow you down. It takes a few days to develop an eye for the spacing and type of trees you want to leave. Develop some clear points in your head- four to six key indicators for what you want to accomplish in a given stand. Once you have those down, just go for it. 

I've seen cutters with twenty years experience or more strangle themselves on a purchaser-select job because they thought too much about each and every tree. The key to making money (for everyone) on a job like that is a blend of efficiency and quality harvest principles. 

You can get an el-cheapo hand-held prism at a forestry supply house for not too much. A cutter doesn't need to invest in a lot of cruising equipment unless you're planning on moving into to being a forester or a cruiser later on.


----------



## Samlock

This is the very basic tool in Scandinavia. "Relaskooppi". Price is maybe 5-10 USD. No moving parts.





It is used to measure the basal area of the wood. The wanted density after the thinning is usually described as the basal area. Also, if you know the basal area and the average DBH of the woods, you can figure the density in numbers. And, if you know the average height as well, you know the total volume of the woods.

Cutters use the device to check the density while cutting. Very easy and quick.


----------



## madhatte

That would be what I'm calling a "Cruiser's Crutch". It's a good tool if used properly, which means holding the chain between the teeth to establish a constant distance between the eye and the aperture. If you tie the chain to your vest, your cruise will be off.


----------



## chipchop

*falling pics sort of*

View attachment 174412


View attachment 174410


View attachment 174411


----------



## bitzer

Nice clip Jameson. I see you wear eye gear. Do you usually? 

I didn't myself until about a year ago. That and ear plugs. I got tired of #### in my eyes all the time and constantly saying, "what?" The plugs knock the sound down enough, but I can still hear the tree.


----------



## slowp

I have no pictures.

I guess I did it right because the outcome was what we wanted. 

There was a horizontal leaner across the road, with a springpole underneath holding it up. I cut as much as I could reach off the top, then wallowed through the snow, stomped out a platform at the base, and cut the bigger tree off at the stump. The springpole did not spring, the tree went straight down on top of it and stayed. 

I was worried that if I cut the springpole first, the bigger tree would roll. 
Does this sound logical?

We'll be back out again tomorrow, but with some equipment.


----------



## ChrisF

Found a snag that needed felling today. First actual snag I've felled. Was just the lower part of the trunk, perhaps 8 metres tall, but fairly thick by my standards.

It kinda uh... bounced when I hammered the wedges in. A bit interesting.

The stump turned out ugly to say the least, but at least it landed where I pointed it safely and without issues.


----------



## 056 kid

Some fishing pics. 


View attachment 174508

View attachment 174509

View attachment 174510


----------



## mdavlee

Nice fish Ted.

Jameson looks like you had a pretty good day cutting for money.


----------



## Dayto

ChrisF said:


> Found a snag that needed felling today. First actual snag I've felled. Was just the lower part of the trunk, perhaps 8 metres tall, but fairly thick by my standards.
> 
> It kinda uh... bounced when I hammered the wedges in. A bit interesting.
> 
> The stump turned out ugly to say the least, but at least it landed where I pointed it safely and without issues.



Never "hammer" wedges into a snag , the shock going through the tree can send a top/limb down asap! and same go's for the Holding wood , when your driving those wedges home into a rotten core , that tree can and usually will break off the stump and go what ever direction it wants . Assesing snag's is.... well different then working a block and setting your lay , dont fight and struggle with snags against there lean!! Pick the strongest lean you have to work with and go from there(stay clear from wedges if possible) . And work with the tree when your driving wedges , watch the motion of the tree (You smack the wedge the momentum travels to the top and will release preassure from the back cut , so all you gotta do is time the tree and then driving wedges become's alot less work ) Well just my .02
Stay safe!


----------



## Samlock

ChrisF said:


> Found a snag that needed felling today. First actual snag I've felled. Was just the lower part of the trunk, perhaps 8 metres tall, but fairly thick by my standards.
> 
> It kinda uh... bounced when I hammered the wedges in. A bit interesting.
> 
> The stump turned out ugly to say the least, but at least it landed where I pointed it safely and without issues.



Rope and pull, if you have to deal with the dead leaners against their natural direction. Saves with the brain damages.

Clearing out a some sort of line, Chris?


----------



## Gologit

Dayto said:


> Never "hammer" wedges into a snag , the shock going through the tree can send a top/limb down asap! and same go's for the Holding wood , when your driving those wedges home into a rotten core , that tree can and usually will break off the stump and go what ever direction it wants . Assesing snag's is.... well different then working a block and setting your lay , dont fight and struggle with snags against there lean!! Pick the strongest lean you have to work with and go from there(stay clear from wedges if possible) . And work with the tree when your driving wedges , watch the motion of the tree (You smack the wedge the momentum travels to the top and will release preassure from the back cut , so all you gotta do is time the tree and then driving wedges become's alot less work ) Well just my .02
> Stay safe!


 
Well said.


----------



## Greystoke

Gologit said:


> Well said.


 
I agree. Always free fall a snag if possible.


----------



## ChrisF

Dayto said:


> Never "hammer" wedges into a snag , the shock going through the tree can send a top/limb down asap! and same go's for the Holding wood , when your driving those wedges home into a rotten core , that tree can and usually will break off the stump and go what ever direction it wants . Assesing snag's is.... well different then working a block and setting your lay , dont fight and struggle with snags against there lean!! Pick the strongest lean you have to work with and go from there(stay clear from wedges if possible) . And work with the tree when your driving wedges , watch the motion of the tree (You smack the wedge the momentum travels to the top and will release preassure from the back cut , so all you gotta do is time the tree and then driving wedges become's alot less work ) Well just my .02
> Stay safe!



Thanks for the advice. Still fairly inexperienced at this, so I do what I can with what experience I have. This tree certainly taught me more than I thought it would. I was twitchy as hell and ready to bolt out of there at any sign of trouble, but luckily that didn't happen.

You're right guys, I should've just felled it where it wanted to go. 



Samlock said:


> Clearing out a some sort of line, Chris?


 
Yeah, it's a powerline in a hiking/cross-country-skiing area, it provides electricity for the lighting in the various trails. Doesn't carry a current during the time we work there, as we just shut it off, but getting trees down safely and without hitting it is still paramount. This snag wasn't going to hit the powerline no matter what, it was just an overall hazard.


----------



## Greystoke

ChrisF said:


> You're right guys, I should've just felled it where it wanted to go.


 
Only IF that was a viable option. You would not want to fall it through a tight spot between two trees because that is where it leans, and then have the top break out and come back at you. I have had snags before that I had to hit multiple times with another tree to reduce them and make them safer as there was no other option, because they were complete duffers, and could not really be trusted, unless I would have had dynamite or det-cord. I have also had them where I had to cut a superhighway escape route, gingerly try to scratch some sort of undercut and back cut, which literally is all it took some times before they would topple, then run like hell! I would not recommend hitting a snag ever, or tickle and run method, but that is what worked for me, and I worked in snag-infested Southeast Alaska, where you have to get damn creative sometimes to get them nasty bastards on the ground. Dayto said it right, free fall if possible, but if you are going to wedge it, take your ear plugs out ( so you can hear any abnormal sounds like breakage), take your safety glasses off, so you have absolutely nothing, like a glare, or dirty lenses obstructing your vision, of maybe some bark breaking loose, or wood splintering, limbs and tops breaking etc), use multiple wedges, and tap them just enough to move them slowly, and time it with the way the snag is moving, and most of all, don't use this post literally, because every snag is different, and a guy NEEDS to know what he is capable of, and wether or not he should walk away from the situation. The only time a guy needs to get creative is when he is a well seasoned, Professional Timber Faller, who HAS to get the job done, and is surrounded by well seasoned co workers who can help him out if he is vexed by something. I am always reluctant to advise anything timber falling on this forum, because I really don't think it to be an effective teaching tool, but there you have my 2 cents. Take care and be safe pard!


----------



## paccity

tarzanstree said:


> Only IF that was a viable option. You would not want to fall it through a tight spot between two trees because that is where it leans, and then have the top break out and come back at you. I have had snags before that I had to hit multiple times with another tree to reduce them and make them safer as there was no other option, because they were complete duffers, and could not really be trusted, unless I would have had dynamite or det-cord. I have also had them where I had to cut a superhighway escape route, gingerly try to scratch some sort of undercut and back cut, which literally is all it took some times before they would topple, then run like hell! I would not recommend hitting a snag ever, or tickle and run method, but that is what worked for me, and I worked in snag-infested Southeast Alaska, where you have to get damn creative sometimes to get them nasty bastards on the ground. Dayto said it right, free fall if possible, but if you are going to wedge it, take your ear plugs out ( so you can hear any abnormal sounds like breakage), take your safety glasses off, so you have absolutely nothing, like a glare, or dirty lenses obstructing your vision, of maybe some bark breaking loose, or wood splintering, limbs and tops breaking etc), use multiple wedges, and tap them just enough to move them slowly, and time it with the way the snag is moving, and most of all, don't use this post literally, because every snag is different, and a guy NEEDS to know what he is capable of, and wether or not he should walk away from the situation. The only time a guy needs to get creative is when he is a well seasoned, Professional Timber Faller, who HAS to get the job done, and is surrounded by well seasoned co workers who can help him out if he is vexed by something. I am always reluctant to advise anything timber falling on this forum, because I really don't think it to be an effective teaching tool, but there you have my 2 cents. Take care and be safe pard!


 
good post! theres no subsitute for hands on experiance. you got to know your limatations. you get hurt or worse when you get in over your head.


----------



## Gologit

ChrisF said:


> Thanks for the advice. Still fairly inexperienced at this, so I do what I can with what experience I have. This tree certainly taught me more than I thought it would. I was twitchy as hell and ready to bolt out of there at any sign of trouble, but luckily that didn't happen.
> 
> You're right guys, I should've just felled it where it wanted to go.


 
Good attitude. Tarzantree's post is great advice. Snags are always a wild-card. I still do quite a bit of snag falling, more than I want sometimes. Every year, at least once, I set the record for the fifty yard dash, senior division...trying to stay out of the way of a rotten piece of crap that I wished I'd never seen. 

You've got the right idea...stay light on your feet and be ready to haul out of there.


----------



## Samlock

ChrisF said:


> Yeah, it's a powerline in a hiking/cross-country-skiing area, it provides electricity for the lighting in the various trails. Doesn't carry a current during the time we work there, as we just shut it off, but getting trees down safely and without hitting it is still paramount. This snag wasn't going to hit the powerline no matter what, it was just an overall hazard.


 
I used to do that a lot as I was just poking my head to the business - with power on. It is certainly a good way to gain some falling experience, since you got to make a lot of stumps. I remember me and my pard dropping 10 000 trees during one winter season - I know it because we were paid by stumps. And if you dropped the timber on the hot wire - the fireworks reminded you a couple of days the direction you should not fall.


----------



## bitzer

Great posts boys! 

I've had several that I've tickeled the backcut myself. I remember one boxelder(trash tree) about four foot on the stump years ago that I put a face into and the wood looked fine. I had just about buried the bar in the back when she exploded off of the stump. Scared the #### out of me! 

I've had many over the years with tops snapping off back at me or nearby trees grabbing limbs as its going down and tossing them at me. I remember one limb rocketing at me I had to duck hard for. I picked the limb up afterward and where it had snapped it looked like a damn spear. I was very close to catching that one in the head. I've gotten pretty good at sounding wood and assesing the situation and possible outcomes over the years, but it takes only one time.

Clear the escape routes and cut them up high or where ever you can keep an eye on the top but still get the hell out of there quick. 


Oh yeah, LOOK UP!!!!


----------



## ChrisF

Thanks again guys.

I understand the hesitation to provide too much falling advice on an internet forum, and rightfully so, meaning I appreciate it even more that you actually give me a few pointers.

And yeah, I've gotten into the habit of LOOKING UP all the time lately. It's taken me a while to get to the point where I'm comfortable taking my eyes off the saw a bit while cutting and looking up, but heck... making progress every day in the woods, staying humble when I have to and confident when I need to. 

(Some trees makes my mouth go all dry though, but I suspect that's a good thing, s'long as it keeps me sharp.)


----------



## paccity

ChrisF said:


> Thanks again guys.
> 
> I understand the hesitation to provide too much falling advice on an internet forum, and rightfully so, meaning I appreciate it even more that you actually give me a few pointers.
> 
> And yeah, I've gotten into the habit of LOOKING UP all the time lately. It's taken me a while to get to the point where I'm comfortable taking my eyes off the saw a bit while cutting and looking up, but heck... making progress every day in the woods, staying humble when I have to and confident when I need to.
> 
> (Some trees makes my mouth go all dry though, but I suspect that's a good thing, s'long as it keeps me sharp.)


 
the more you work your saw the more it becomes a extention of you.


----------



## forestryworks

Definitely fall a snag to its lean, unless you need to put it in a specific spot for whatever reason.

If you do need to wedge, hit once and look up. Hit once, look up. Repeat as needed.

Always look up!


----------



## paccity

forestryworks said:


> Definitely fall a snag to its lean, unless you need to put it in a specific spot for whatever reason.
> 
> If you do need to wedge, hit once and look up. Hit once, look up. Repeat as needed.
> 
> Always look up!


 
yup, and listen , the tree will usually talk to you. if you get what i mean.


----------



## bitzer

Hey nice Steelies Ted!


----------



## Samlock

This one was the ugliest snag I have taken down this year. A 29'' aspen standing next to a garage.







It was not all soft, but I was in a hurry as it went. A lot of things on the air.






The power line clearing Chris is up to is a special case. There is usually just one falling direction available, and the timber is mostly leaning towards the light - the power line it is. Spruces, even the dead ones, are not usually that bad as they grow straight up. Alders gave me always shivers - they grow fast and lean heavily. And they are dead or at least rotten when you get there.


----------



## RandyMac

Hey there Sam! (LM)
I thought that looked like something I saw before.

:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Samlock

Well, I am not falling right now, too much snow... So I have to do with the old material.

Sam


----------



## RandyMac

Been busy all night, I'm so tired I tried to pick a fight just to stay wake. No takers.

Have a bright and shiny day.


----------



## OregonSawyer

Not that I am a pro or anything but I figured I'd throw up some pics from a fir I recently fell at my girlfriends parents house. I posted a short video pages ago but just now got the pics... Anyway, here ya go.


























Some of you that saw the video may recall that it was quite rotten (as you could see in the face) that chunk was what it broke away from...










And of course, the obligatory kill photo...


----------



## paccity

pretty good for a punky p.o.s :msp_thumbup:


----------



## OregonSawyer

Thanks. Believe it or not it cleaned up pretty quick. White speck only went about 30 ft up and then it was sound (sans the occasional unsound knot/limb). Anyway, it all worked out. They have one on their property bigger than that (roughly 6ft) that may need to come down in the near future as well. The one in the photos was leaning WAY ahead. Like 30 ft...


----------



## madhatte

Eugene, eh? I had some good times in your neck of the woods back in the day.


----------



## OregonSawyer

madhatte said:


> Eugene, eh? I had some good times in your neck of the woods back in the day.


 
Is that so?! How long ago was that? Did you log in the area?


----------



## madhatte

OregonSawyer said:


> Is that so?! How long ago was that? Did you log in the area?


1997-1998, and no, I was never a faller. I was a forestry technician contracted to the BLM in those days. If you are, or know, a guy from Alpine named Jay, whose uncle Bob died in a skidder accident in 1996, I'd be most pleased to buy you a beer.


----------



## OregonSawyer

madhatte said:


> 1997-1998, and no, I was never a faller. I was a forestry technician contracted to the BLM in those days. If you are, or know, a guy from Alpine named Jay, whose uncle Bob died in a skidder accident in 1996, I'd be most pleased to buy you a beer.


 
No such luck sir... Or should I say misfortune (given the accident). BLM huh? Would you happen to know a fellow named Fred Kallean? (not sure on the spelling)


----------



## madhatte

Not a name I know. I worked contracts out of both the Eugene and Salem district offices during those years. Loved Eugene district -- everything was just close enough, and just far enough away. When I grow up, I think I might want to live there. 

Also -- one a these days, I gotta tell my SWAT team story. I just haven't gotten around to typing it out. Keywords: Siuslaw river, Apple Creek, 1997, Helicopter.


----------



## OregonSawyer

Fred was a Forester with the BLM office for over 30 years I believe... SWAT story?! Sounds interesting. You are a Forester now, correct? 

As much as I want to move away from the place I grew up, you are exactly right. This town is pretty ideal for those who like true "close-in country."


----------



## madhatte

I am a "Forestry Technician". The difference is mostly political.


----------



## newmexico

*I never do anything fun...*

and open to critique... I can't spell.. .. but....


[video=youtube;BbrcXCX4QvQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbrcXCX4QvQ[/video]


----------



## forestryworks

newmexico said:


> and open to critique... I can't spell.. .. but....
> 
> 
> [video=youtube;BbrcXCX4QvQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbrcXCX4QvQ[/video]


 
Nice job, you laid that one out nicely.


----------



## wowzers

madhatte said:


> I am a "Forestry Technician". The difference is mostly political.


 
And techs get stuff done.:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## madhatte

Yes we do!


----------



## ChrisF

newmexico said:


> and open to critique... I can't spell.. .. but....



Love the soundtrack, can't go wrong with Metallica!

Nice vid, thanks for sharing.


----------



## forestryworks

Well here's a picture of a crazy dude with some kind of damn-fool look on his face, lol.


----------



## RPM

forestryworks said:


> Well here's a picture of a crazy dude with some kind of damn-fool look on his face, lol.


 
Looks you're having too much fun :msp_razz: ...oak?


----------



## forestryworks

Yes, oak. Was fun that day. 

Should be more fun when we move to the south slope - all pine there.

For now we are staying on the north slope and then possibly moving down into the valley bottom and getting the big hardwood.

That picture was more ridgetop timber just before it starts dropping off.

It's a looooooonnnggg slope too.


----------



## Metals406

Jameson, ya got that crazy look in your eye. . . Put the saw on the ground and step away. :dribble:


----------



## bitzer

Nice pic Jameson. Looks like fun man! The ground with no snow sure looks wierd. Still at least a foot on the ground up here.


----------



## forestryworks

Metals406 said:


> Jameson, ya got that crazy look in your eye. . . Put the saw on the ground and step away. :dribble:


 
Breathing too much saw-gas fumes, lol



bitzer said:


> Nice pic Jameson. Looks like fun man! The ground with no snow sure looks wierd. Still at least a foot on the ground up here.


 
It's good experience. I'm ready to get into the pine. Steeper and more handfalling.


----------



## Samlock

forestryworks said:


>



See that humble praying- God -of -the- wood-position? I bet a pair of old socks that's the shortest stump in the history of North America...


----------



## bitzer

Samlock said:


> See that humble praying- God -of -the- wood-position? I bet a pair of old socks that's the shortest stump in the history of North America...


 
Nah, theres a guy that hangs on this site, but usually not this forum, that cuts in the dirt.


----------



## RandyMac

Samlock said:


> See that humble praying- God -of -the- wood-position? I bet a pair of old socks that's* the shortest stump in the* *history of North America.*..


 

Forestryworks is just trying to average out my high stumps.


----------



## STEVEGODSEYJR

RandyMac said:


> Forestryworks is just trying to average out my high stumps.


 
Randy....you almost look like Leland the yarder operator at Pihl:hmm3grin2orange::msp_flapper:


----------



## Gologit

[video=youtube;f7kvbqxUIsQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7kvbqxUIsQ[/video]

Jameson must be making up for my high stumps, too. Damn old historical rock walls, anyway.

And, yeah I was chasing the hinge on a heavy leaner. Never did catch it.


----------



## ChrisF

STEVEGODSEYJR said:


> Randy....you almost look like Leland the yarder operator at Pihl:hmm3grin2orange::msp_flapper:


 

Hahahaha, I was just thinking that!


----------



## paccity

Gologit said:


> [video=youtube;f7kvbqxUIsQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7kvbqxUIsQ[/video]
> 
> Jameson must be making up for my high stumps, too. Damn old historical rock walls, anyway.
> 
> And, yeah I was chasing the hinge on a heavy leaner. Never did catch it.


 
good vid. give it a shave and call it good.


----------



## ChrisF

Took the biggest tree I've ever felled yesterday, a pine that was about 170 years old.

The bar on my saw is 24", for comparison. 







Standing on it to limb it, about a metre and a half from the tree to the ground where I'm standing.






Bucking the bastard:


----------



## RandyMac

*Crumpler!!*


----------



## Thorcw

Is that the biggest bar on a saw in europe?


----------



## paccity

Thorcw said:


> Is that the biggest bar on a saw in europe?


 
it's the size bar that work's for the wood there cut'in.


----------



## Thorcw

I know they like the shorty bars over there


----------



## 056 kid

It's St. Patrick's day. Do it up real big people!!


Real timber fallers use shorter bars because they can make those short bars do work...


----------



## Samlock

Thorcw said:


> Is that the biggest bar on a saw in europe?



No it isn't, but certainly an overkill it is.


----------



## bitzer

Hey nice pics Chris! Is that a scotch pine by chance? Only pine I know with orange like that.


----------



## Rounder

The past week.

I have had enough ####ing snow.

View attachment 176529



Cutting pard Aaron trying to 8'6" his way out of a problem....I ran the tape for him....cull! - Sam

View attachment 176530


----------



## ChrisF

That second picture is BADASS man, thanks for sharing!



bitzer said:


> Hey nice pics Chris! Is that a scotch pine by chance? Only pine I know with orange like that.


 
Thanks, and yes it is indeed a scotch pine.


----------



## slowp

These are already on the ground. Tree after tree after tree after tree...









View attachment 176547

View attachment 176548

There is so much snowbreak and windthrow that the firewood cutters are being picky. Alder is not a favorite wood. So we cut, and cut, and cut....to get the roads opened up. The road crew is doing the major roads with equipment. We do the roads folks need open for projects, by hand. 

This is what I will be doing until my retirement day. But, it can be interesting. So, I won't complain.


----------



## ChainsawmanXX

Samlock said:


> No it isn't, but certainly an overkill it is.


 
What is that a Chihuahua with sharp teeth? :msp_biggrin:


----------



## GASoline71

Anybody know where the vid of that kid throwin' the Leupold scope around with his dad. I'm tryin' to show a buddy... it's hilarious, and I think it's buried in this thread somewhere.

Gary


----------



## bitzer

Hey nice pics Sam! You boys sure do have a lot of snow yet. Its staying long here too. The fields are mostly brown, but theres still plenty of knee-high in the woods. The joys of small dbh timber. 


Got to put my 394 into some decent wood finally. 5' DBH silver maple in some dudes yard last week. Pulled about 4 cords out of it. No pics, just fun! I told my old lady we gotta move to a place where trees average 4-5' on the stump. She said lets go! If it were only that easy.


----------



## newmexico

Gologit said:


> [
> 
> Jameson must be making up for my high stumps, too. Damn old historical rock walls, anyway.
> 
> And, yeah I was chasing the hinge on a heavy leaner. Never did catch it.


 
Left my high stump mark on the world this morning. And without even a humbolt. Had to try to hop it over some concrete stair-- they weren't historical and it wouldn't have hurt to torn em up, but still wanted to get it over the steps. Wasn't chasing a lean either-- the tree in question more leaned up the hill at about a 90 to the hinge. I spent yesterday limbing it up as I had to fall it down the street and I didn't want to spear the road or tear up the apple trees to the sides. All went well, my friends are happy to have the dying Ponderosa down. Got a little carried away with the face. Was thankful I kept the line in the tree from yesterday-- The winds were a little squirrely.. gusting to 25 at times and mostly out of the west where the tree was headed, but not always... I didn't measure it, but maybe 33 inch dbh. Made for some good straight logs to put around a parking area. didn't want to cut it into lumber or firewood as it was a town tree and full of metal. Luckily only hit one smaller-ish nail on the face cut. 

[video=youtube;5mPWPhR7Dus]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mPWPhR7Dus[/video]


----------



## slowp

*Reverse Falling*

Yup. I put this one back up. I was expecting it to stand back up and all went well. 





View attachment 176912


----------



## Gologit

Well, cut it down. Again. Show it who's boss. :msp_wink:


----------



## RandyMac

Littlest RayCarr has a brother, Edward Randal Kieth, came into the world early today. Everyone but little Ray is doing fine.


----------



## paccity

congrats. little ones are cool.:cool2:


----------



## Gologit

RandyMac said:


> Littlest RayCarr has a brother, Edward Randal Kieth, came into the world early today. Everyone but little Ray is doing fine.


----------



## bitzer

Good to hear there is another one of your kind runnin around Randy!

Cut and run weeding job. 

4 weeds and a snag.





Black ash with rotten hinge and plastic craptastic (well not too bad after removing 1/2 lb. of metal out of the jug and muffler) Husky. 










These two were leaning hard out and to the left. They were all tied together with vines and busted up branches. I left about a 2 inch strap on the front one and decided to try out a Coos Bay triangle on the back one instead of boring like I normally would. Cut up the far corner first, then near, then finished from the far back to my side and booked out. Worked well. Thanks PNW Boys! That back cut may become a regular. I cleaned the dutch out of that back one three times and it still sat tight after a little time. Oh yeah, they were leaning toward the river in the background. That would have ended my fun real quick. 






View attachment 176984


View attachment 176986


View attachment 176987


View attachment 176985


----------



## slowp

Bitzer, this is too weird. 

During my road clearing work today, I came upon a maple that was still attached but leaning just about horizontal across the road. It was up too high to for me to reach the top. So, I too did a Coos Bay and was thinking that I owed Gary a beer or shot of Yukon at the next GTG because he drew a diagram that my slow brain finally was able to understand. 

The maple went down without any scariness or splitting. I'll probably never use that again, but it sure worked out well in that instance. 

So Gary, If you read this, I'll bring a beer for you from the brewery that cannot be named due to the automatic censor on here.


----------



## bitzer

Thats Great! Gary definetly put the idea in my head and it was only a matter a time before I had to try it. I owe him a few too! I think it will become more of a regular in the future. These are maple too, of the dirty variety. Boxelder. Cut one down and a hundred grow in its place.


----------



## forestryworks

bitzer said:


>


 
Looks awful thick and jumbled in there.

I'd be cussing and spitting and throwing stuff trying to wade through there lol.


----------



## 056 kid

That's nothing Jameson. Black Berry thickets are sure to make a faller go nuts. . .


----------



## joesawer

forestryworks said:


> Looks awful thick and jumbled in there.
> 
> I'd be cussing and spitting and throwing stuff trying to wade through there lol.


 
Hmmm you better stay well clear of manzinita, buck brush, and many other forms of brush that make that look like an open park.


----------



## ChipMonger

slowp said:


> Bitzer, this is too weird.
> 
> During my road clearing work today, I came upon a maple that was still attached but leaning just about horizontal across the road. It was up too high to for me to reach the top. So, I too did a Coos Bay and was thinking that I owed Gary a beer or shot of Yukon at the next GTG because he drew a diagram that my slow brain finally was able to understand.
> 
> The maple went down without any scariness or splitting. I'll probably never use that again, but it sure worked out well in that instance.
> 
> So Gary, If you read this, I'll bring a beer for you from the brewery that cannot be named due to the automatic censor on here.


 

Slowp-

Can you post the diagram? or send it to me in a PM? Thanks!


----------



## forestryworks

joesawer said:


> Hmmm you better stay well clear of manzinita, buck brush, and many other forms of brush that make that look like an open park.


 
Lol, i've been spoiled on these open pine stands we have here.


----------



## bitzer

Yep blackberry is fun. I like the thick #### like that and buckthorn thats full of spines and prickers. Also burdock, though not painful, just irritating when your shirt sticks to your gloves or your boot laces are carrying tassles of them or they are stuck in the crook of your arm or whatever. Its tough to pull burdock seeds off of knit gloves with another knit glove on. Kind of like hot potato, just pass em back and forth. Pulling them off with your mouth just gets little pokey particles that float around and stick in there all day no matter how much water you drink. Yeah I could take the gloves or the shirt off and pick them out, but when you're moving you want to keep moving.


----------



## madhatte

The definition of "Nasty" is the Oregon Coast Range. Labyrinths of old-growth rhododendron on the ridgetops, jungles of vine maple and salmonberry in the valleys, and all manners of things to get tangled up in between. That said, I had a blast working there.


----------



## paccity

madhatte said:


> The definition of "Nasty" is the Oregon Coast Range. Labyrinths of old-growth rhododendron on the ridgetops, jungles of vine maple and salmonberry in the valleys, and all manners of things to get tangled up in between. That said, I had a blast working there.


 
2nd that one.


----------



## Gologit

LOLOL...we had a sale last year that had been prethinned, and then masticated. They weren't going to cut it but they found bugs so we wound up taking it all. No brush, not a stick of it. No blackberries, no manzanita, no madrone, no buckbrush...nothing. Good size wood, too, on a gentle slope with no creeks or arch sites to worry about.You could see where everybody was, you could really read the shape of the ground, and you didn't wind up with torn clothes and a short fuse by then end of the day. It was like falling timber in my back yard. I almost felt gulity for taking my wages. Almost.

They made up for it on the next sale though. All that bad brush stuff plus steep unstable ground. Lots of dog hair, creeks, old arch site gold diggins every place you looked, and about every other tree leaning away from the lead. In other words, things were back to normal. :msp_wink:


----------



## Samlock

Years ago we went cutting overseas, to the south. The woods there were full of nasty brush. We had never seen anything like it before, doesn't grow in Finland. The thorns went through everything - boots, fingers, the plastic gas jugs we carried on our belts... We called it Jesus brush, because every time a man walked into the brush, he would shout "JESUS!".

I asked the foreman of the local company we worked for the real name for the brush. "What did you call it", he asked. "Jesus brush. You know, the one they made a crown of", I replied.

The foreman gave me a funny look and said: "Well, Jesus brush it is." He refused to tell me the name of the brush in his own language.

I'm glad we don't have such things up here. But: "If it isn't one thing, it's the other." (The girl and the bleeding nose parable)


----------



## bitzer

Rate my stump! 






View attachment 177222


Boredom was a factor in this one, that and a pinch of frustration.


----------



## coastalfaller

bitzer said:


> Rate my stump!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 177222
> 
> 
> Boredom was a factor in this one, that and a pinch of frustration.


 
Sharp axe!!


----------



## Hddnis

Just chiming in to say that the underbrush isn't thick until you have no idea what your next step is really supported by.



Mr. HE


----------



## Gologit

coastalfaller said:


> Sharp axe!!


 
Hmmm...maybe not an _extremely_ sharp axe, though. C'mon Bob, what's the story?


----------



## paccity

ya. when walkin on brush and slash ,one wrong step and your up to your " " and trying to get out. and if your lucky you won't rake up your legg to bad.


----------



## slowp

I suspect that the word _Pinch_ is a hint. 

I shall look at this in the morning. Please figure it out.


----------



## bitzer

Well I wish I had a more exciting story to go with it. Dropped the backhoe off at job in the afternoon. 10 minutes into the next morning I hear PSSSSSHHH! ####, turn around and race back to the road. Made it to about 500 yards away when I realized I was going to run the rubber off of the rim. Blew out the side wall on the back tire. Dismount tire and load up to run to the tire guy. Guy says he has to order tire and its looking like it will be Monday before I see it. Got a different job in the meantime, but the hoe is parked in the middle of a trail now and has to be moved asap. Got tire back Tuesday morning. Wrestle and mount up. Ready to go! Hop in and turn the key, low RPM sound, no go. Dammit! Get the jumpers running from the truck to the hoe. Give it ten, try it again. Got sick of waiting and didn't have any other equipment on me because I still had to finish different job and just planned to mount up tire, move machine and be out of there asap. Hence the boredom and frustration. Just the way it goes I guess. With the tink, tink, tink of freezing rain on my hat I chopped my annoyance away. Worked pretty well too and it was fun laying one down the old way. I may be sick, but I bought a double bit later in the week. I may have to turn it loose on something decent if I can find the right tree and the time. Nope, the axe was not extremely sharp.












View attachment 177378

View attachment 177379


The camera is pretty much glued to the truck these days. I've been burned way too many times in the last year for no before and after proof on tree jobs and other BS I do.


----------



## joesawer

Samlock said:


> Years ago we went cutting overseas, to the south. The woods there were full of nasty brush. We had never seen anything like it before, doesn't grow in Finland. The thorns went through everything - boots, fingers, the plastic gas jugs we carried on our belts... We called it Jesus brush, because every time a man walked into the brush, he would shout "JESUS!".
> 
> I asked the foreman of the local company we worked for the real name for the brush. "What did you call it", he asked. "Jesus brush. You know, the one they made a crown of", I replied.
> 
> The foreman gave me a funny look and said: "Well, Jesus brush it is." He refused to tell me the name of the brush in his own language.
> 
> I'm glad we don't have such things up here. But: "If it isn't one thing, it's the other." (The girl and the bleeding nose parable)


 


That sounds like locust in the American east.


Brush that does not make you bleed is soft or gentle brush. There is some harsh to brutal brush out there. My fore arms resemble a chinese almanac from brush scars.


----------



## Gologit

joesawer said:


> My fore arms resemble a chinese almanac from brush scars.


 
LOL. Yup. I had a doctor ask me one time what all the scars on my fore arms were from. He figured I'd had some weird skin disease. 

Same old deal, start off every season with brand new long sleeved hickory shirts...by July they're half sleeve, by August they're short sleeve.


----------



## Samlock

Haha. I wonder what a coroner might conclude: "John Doe has obviously been a cat farmer..."

I rather struggle with snow reaching the nuts than the brutal bush.


----------



## ChrisF

Samlock said:


> I rather struggle with snow reaching the nuts than the brutal bush.


 
Haha aye!

I actually prefer cutting in the winter over cutting in the summer though, I tend to get very hot very quick, and those godforsaken saw-pants don't really help.


----------



## Samlock

Go for kevlar, Chris.


----------



## jeremy clarkson

Hey how much is a tree like that worth?


----------



## RandyMac

jeremy clarkson said:


> Hey how much is a tree like that worth?


 
There where times when I was reminded that the tree I was falling, was worth more than I was.


----------



## forestryworks

Smash.

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/PXKmUcHBSlM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


----------



## Gologit

Nicely done. I see your oaks are a lot like ours...when they go, they GO. They'll pop once or twice and when they do it's time to clear the area.


----------



## forestryworks

Thanks, Bob.


----------



## madhatte

That's how it's DONE!

Been meaning to ask: who's on the other end of your radio?


----------



## forestryworks

madhatte said:


> That's how it's DONE!
> 
> Been meaning to ask: who's on the other end of your radio?


 
Thanks.

State Park officials on the other end. But not that day. Radio died.

That's a True North radio harness. Quite a bit of room. Inside pocket holds compass, map, spare chain and file. Outside pen slots I put the scrench in. Ear plugs on the smaller inside pouch.


----------



## madhatte

Oh, I know that harness. I wore it for years. Last year I got the "stealth" model -- no room for an extra battery but it fits SOOOOOOO much better and never sags.


----------



## bitzer

Nice work Jameson! 

I like how the wedge stuck to the butt. Cuttin snags for the park again? 

I had a sinker last week. The wood looked fine, but when I started pounding the wedge kept sinking into the butt. And it was windy. Made it a little exciting for a minute or two at least. 

Good to see some action out there!


----------



## Rounder

27 months straight...finally got a little vacation.

View attachment 179417


Don't get me wrong, I'm extremely thankful to stay as busy as I have....but the few days off have been nice.

Still ended up on the end of a saw here and there, family favor type stuff.

View attachment 179418


Hope you all are well - Sam


----------



## Gologit

Enjoy it while it lasts, Sam. Summer is headed this way.


----------



## Rounder

Gologit said:


> Enjoy it while it lasts, Sam. Summer is headed this way.


 
I know it. I got a few too many phone calls asking when exactly I was getting back....lets just say I didn't give a lot of notice before I left............only way to do it, lol.


----------



## madhatte

mtsamloggit said:


> 27 months straight...finally got a little vacation.



Bourbon and a cigar? WHY I NEVER. 

... today, anyway. It's a Hamm's day. 

Good on ya pullin' the long haul, and good on ya rewarding yourself at the end. Sounds dumb, sort of, but a lot of time rituals are pretty much what make things work.


----------



## paccity

mtsamloggit said:


> 27 months straight...finally got a little vacation.
> 
> View attachment 179417
> 
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I'm extremely thankful to stay as busy as I have....but the few days off have been nice.
> 
> Still ended up on the end of a saw here and there, family favor type stuff.
> 
> View attachment 179418
> 
> 
> Hope you all are well - Sam


 
you look in better shape than your avatar. :msp_biggrin:


----------



## hammerlogging

27 months straight...finally got a little vacation.
Hope you all are well - Sam


----------



## RandyMac

Hey BitzerBob!!

I tossed shiny metal into the sea. The water was pretty flat, but still dirty. I gave it about 20 minutes worth, hooked a big bitey thing with one of the larger black/silver/orange lures. I tried to "surf" it on to a rock, but the big Ling snatched a Hmong off the rock and swam away.


----------



## Samlock

mtsamloggit said:


> 27 months straight...finally got a little vacation.



Be careful, Sam. Sudden stop after such a long period of physical hard working leads easily to heart arrhythmia. At least my heart keeps kicking like a mule a couple of first weeks of my vacation. It's not dangerous, but annoying. Well, too much strong juice makes it intolerable.

Have a good time off. Regards, Sam.


----------



## bitzer

RandyMac said:


> Hey BitzerBob!!
> 
> I tossed shiny metal into the sea. The water was pretty flat, but still dirty. I gave it about 20 minutes worth, hooked a big bitey thing with one of the larger black/silver/orange lures. I tried to "surf" it on to a rock, but the big Ling snatched a Hmong off the rock and swam away.



Thats Great! Too bad you didn't get to land em. Glad to hear you got one to bite though! I didn't know what a Ling was but looked it up. Snakey lookin fellas. Seems they can get pretty decent sized? Other than a cultural group of people hailing from SE Asia what are hmong? I'm guessing some kind of mussel or clam that likes to stick to rocks and snap lines? Good stuff man!



Sam- Nice pics! Thats a long run man. Good to have a decent sit down now and then. See-gar and whiskey sounds good about now too. Hey whats that rope doing on that tree? Old clothes line? Ha.ha. Is the snow gone yet? 

Got to 80 degrees here yesterday and the rivers were flood stage a week ago, but back in the darkest northern facing hills theres still some hanging on. That and some gray/black ashy looking stuff in the walmart parkin lot. That'll be there til June though.


----------



## RandyMac

Asian Hmong Bob, sometimes I used them as streamers.
Lings are pretty cool, lots of power, attitude, very stubborn. They can get big, 60 pounds or so and must be subdued before bringing it on deck. If you just pull them on the boat, the first thing it does is vomit a couple gallons of squids, octopuses, snappers and assorted whatnots. Then it will go after whomever is closest, I swear there is true hatred in those eyes. My stupid BIL had an active 45 pounder lock on to his ankle, it commenced to thrash about while gnawin' on Chuck. I watched his two equally stupid friends beat on the fish and Chuck. After several minutes of chinese cluster ####, they manged to sever the great muscles of the lower jaw. Chuck got 21 stitches, a nasty infection and three weeks in a cast, seems that the fish worried some of the bones loose.
I release without boating any Ling over 25 pounds or less than 15. the big old predators are not good to eat. My biggest deal was landing a 25 pounder off the rocks.


----------



## Rounder

Sam- Nice pics! Thats a long run man. Good to have a decent sit down now and then. See-gar and whiskey sounds good about now too. Hey whats that rope doing on that tree? Old clothes line? Ha.ha. Is the snow gone yet? 

Lol, the clothes line was attached to a come - along to make the mother in law feel a little better about things....didn't trust my wedging abilities. The best part of it was the fact that the old rope had so much stretch in it that i doubt it put an ounce of pressure on that tree. Got to keep the MIL happy. I will say that those Tennessee Red Oak are heavy buggers compared to what I'm used to.

The grass is greening in the yard, but I can see snow about 500 feet up the hill across the road. There's still plenty of it up on the job....will be until about June - take care - Sam


----------



## Joe46

RandyMac said:


> Asian Hmong Bob, sometimes I used them as streamers.
> Lings are pretty cool, lots of power, attitude, very stubborn. They can get big, 60 pounds or so and must be subdued before bringing it on deck. If you just pull them on the boat, the first thing it does is vomit a couple gallons of squids, octopuses, snappers and assorted whatnots. Then it will go after whomever is closest, I swear there is true hatred in those eyes. My stupid BIL had an active 45 pounder lock on to his ankle, it commenced to thrash about while gnawin' on Chuck. I watched his two equally stupid friends beat on the fish and Chuck. After several minutes of chinese cluster ####, they manged to sever the great muscles of the lower jaw. Chuck got 21 stitches, a nasty infection and three weeks in a cast, seems that the fish worried some of the bones loose.
> I release without boating any Ling over 25 pounds or less than 15. the big old predators are not good to eat. My biggest deal was landing a 25 pounder off the rocks.


 
Would have loved to see a video of that. Used to occasionally catch lingcod in gillnets when I was doing fisheries work out of Neah Bay. The small ones are good eatin.


----------



## bitzer

RandyMac said:


> Asian Hmong Bob, sometimes I used them as streamers.
> Lings are pretty cool, lots of power, attitude, very stubborn. They can get big, 60 pounds or so and must be subdued before bringing it on deck. If you just pull them on the boat, the first thing it does is vomit a couple gallons of squids, octopuses, snappers and assorted whatnots. Then it will go after whomever is closest, I swear there is true hatred in those eyes. My stupid BIL had an active 45 pounder lock on to his ankle, it commenced to thrash about while gnawin' on Chuck. I watched his two equally stupid friends beat on the fish and Chuck. After several minutes of chinese cluster ####, they manged to sever the great muscles of the lower jaw. Chuck got 21 stitches, a nasty infection and three weeks in a cast, seems that the fish worried some of the bones loose.
> I release without boating any Ling over 25 pounds or less than 15. the big old predators are not good to eat. My biggest deal was landing a 25 pounder off the rocks.


 
Geez, now I feel like an idiot. Guess I'm a little slow. Pretty funny now reading it again. I thought it was some kind of slang. Theres a lot of hmong up this way along with a lot of different groups coming into the bigger cities. With that theres a lot of slang terms blowing around. Some might think my kind to be prejudiced, I'd argue old-fashioned :wink:.


----------



## bitzer

mtsamloggit said:


> Sam- Nice pics! Thats a long run man. Good to have a decent sit down now and then. See-gar and whiskey sounds good about now too. Hey whats that rope doing on that tree? Old clothes line? Ha.ha. Is the snow gone yet?
> 
> Lol, the clothes line was attached to a come - along to make the mother in law feel a little better about things....didn't trust my wedging abilities. The best part of it was the fact that the old rope had so much stretch in it that i doubt it put an ounce of pressure on that tree. Got to keep the MIL happy. I will say that those Tennessee Red Oak are heavy buggers compared to what I'm used to.
> 
> The grass is greening in the yard, but I can see snow about 500 feet up the hill across the road. There's still plenty of it up on the job....will be until about June - take care - Sam


 
I figured as much on the rope. I've gotten that from a lot of people when I've done city jobs. Stuff like "Hey aren't you gonna put a rope on it or aren't you gunna climb it and top it?" Nope. 

I didn't realize you were that far this way. Heart of whiskey country. The oaks and hickories sure like to thump the ground.


----------



## forestryworks

Went back to my part-time falling job today. Moved to the south slope, mostly all pine. Faster going. Straight falling.

Here's a video cutting some pine by the skid road. Fell them parallel to the road then went back to the slope off to the right. Not a steep slope, maybe 25% or so.

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/AWdMtAgxwF0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

A few pictures...


----------



## forestryworks

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/kTnkZgb8poQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Biggest tree of the day. Too bad it was a double with lots of knots.


----------



## nw axe man

Nice job, Bud. What kind of pine is that? Looks like pretty nice ground but it sure took off when it left the stump.


----------



## forestryworks

nw axe man said:


> Nice job, Bud. What kind of pine is that? Looks like pretty nice ground but it sure took off when it left the stump.


 
Thanks for the good word.

Shortleaf pine - one of the 4 major southern yellow pines.


----------



## paccity

forestryworks said:


> <iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/kTnkZgb8poQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
> 
> Biggest tree of the day. Too bad it was a double with lots of knots.


 
nice job. noticed you have your humpday shirt on. weather must be nice.


----------



## forestryworks

paccity said:


> nice job. noticed you have your humpday shirt on. weather must be nice.


 
Thanks. 

Pretty warm today. Sun burned my neck.


----------



## gavin

Here are a couple from recently The cedar was just over 9 feet. The fir was 6. Wood like that isn't generally consistent or an every day occurance. There's lots of gout to mow down in between the nice ones!


----------



## RandyMac

Great photos, I see you are a bark gnawer, good job.


----------



## Sport Faller

gavin said:


> Here are a couple from recently The cedar was just over 9 feet. The fir was 6. Wood like that isn't generally consistent or an every day occurance. There's lots of gout to mow down in between the nice ones!


 

Dang Man, them's some pickles for sure


----------



## forestryworks

gavin said:


> Here are a couple from recently The cedar was just over 9 feet. The fir was 6. Wood like that isn't generally consistent or an every day occurance. There's lots of gout to mow down in between the nice ones!


----------



## RandyMac

For every punkin there are a dozen weeds.


----------



## bitzer

Nice action Jameson! Looks nice and green down there. Had a few flurries up this way a couple of days ago.


Awesome pics Gavin! Looks like fun.


----------



## Samlock

*It was kinda close...*

Did couple of old birches on a local farm. One of the trees was a rope-and-pull-case. 






Well, I tensioned the rope before cutting, so the tree would go over as I cut it. I had told the people of the house to stay inside. They did. Just as I finished the back cut, the daughter of the house came from work and drove her car right to the falling sector. Obviously she noticed me, but she didn't understand what I was doing. She just waved back and parked her car. I ran to her and told her to come off the car and run. At that moment the tree went over.






Fortunately the tree fell right to the direction I wanted to put it in the first place. It missed the car. But 10 seconds earlier the car would have been under the tree. 






Morals: Every time you get to the house, first thing to do is to ask how many daughters they have.


----------



## ChrisF

Samlock said:


> Morals: Every time you get to the house, first thing to do is to ask how many daughters they have.



Words to live by!


----------



## Metals406

ChrisF said:


> Words to live by!


 
Even if you're not there to do tree work. :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Joe46

Metals406 said:


> Even if you're not there to do tree work. :hmm3grin2orange:


 
Words to live by!


----------



## Samlock

Metals406 said:


> Even if you're not there to do tree work. :hmm3grin2orange:



Exactly! And if they don't like you asking, I'll urge to you as a gypsy urged to his fellow: Run zigzag, brother! Run zigzag, the landlord has a shotgun!


----------



## Greenwedge

Just letting you guys know that I'm selling the saw that I used in the video the busheling daywager. It has a different air filter system on it, and I will take it off and put a hole shot or the stock air filter on it when it sells. You cannot find the velocity stacks anymore and I'm loath to part with it, therefore it is not part of the sale. The reason I'm selling this saw is because I'm going to 880's. I'm tired of having to seperate saw parts and whatnot. Here is a recent video of me cutting with it, and you can also watch it perform on the Busheling Daywager video on youtube. YouTube - Woods modified Stihl ms 660 vs. General modified 660 vs. Woods modifed Stihl ms 880 TAKE 1


----------



## Greenwedge

*Selling the saw in this video.*

Just wanted you guys to know that I'm listing this saw on ebay next Monday....


tarzanstree said:


> Just thought this vid deserved to be on here. He smoked that tree over in short order.
> 
> <object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/2x7MXn5zuEw?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/2x7MXn5zuEw?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>


----------



## mdavlee

That's a good running saw.


----------



## slowp

That's my favorite falling video. I showed it to the guy that I was working with and we both started saying, "That's a wrap." after we got the trees bucked out of the roads.


----------



## Rounder

Today, me and Aaron. Me in yellow - Sam


----------



## Rounder

One more...more snow starting to fall. Hope you all are staying busy - Sam


----------



## mdavlee

Here's the pictures.


----------



## Rounder

Thanks, still learning the new format...I'm a little slow - Sam


----------



## Greenwedge

*My 880*

Do you guys think I could make any money with this outfit?

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="960" height="750" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Pzp3MqgQguM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


----------



## mdavlee

mtsamloggit said:


> Thanks, still learning the new format...I'm a little slow - Sam


 
It took me a while to figure out what I was doing wrong. I had a bunch of red xs on my first several tries.


----------



## paccity

mtsamloggit said:


> Today, me and Aaron. Me in yellow - Sam


 
good pics, glad your workin. in the first pic looks like your layin down on the job.:msp_biggrin:


----------



## Rounder

paccity said:


> good pics, glad your workin. in the first pic looks like your layin down on the job.:msp_biggrin:


 
Yep, I may be slow....but I am expensive - Sam


----------



## RandyMac

Greenwedge said:


> Do you guys think I could make any money with this outfit?


 
It sure enough eats wood. I'll look at the rest of the vids. I appreciate hot running saws, regardless of color.


----------



## Metals406

Greenwedge said:


> Do you guys think I could make any money with this outfit?
> 
> <iframe title="YouTube video player" width="960" height="750" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Pzp3MqgQguM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


 
Naw, I gotta 029 that'll keep up with that 88. . . Granted, it's wearing a 2" bar! Hahahahaha

Good to see ya pokin' around Ol Pat!


----------



## Metals406

mtsamloggit said:


> Yep, I may be slow....but I am expensive - Sam


 
Hahahah, that's funny right there!

Sam, that's dang near line ground you boys are on!


----------



## nw axe man

Here's a nice stick I got in June of 08. Was a full length snag that had to come down either in or out of control. If it had fallen out of control it would have side windered half a dozen smaller 3-5' firs over a well traveled road. As a matter of fact 14,000 school kids travel it a year. I can't think of a worse visual than having a bus load of kids hit by a tree like this. This is the same road that SlowP referred to as having a man killed in 09 by a falling tree.


----------



## forestryworks

nw axe man said:


> Here's a nice stick I got in June of 08. Was a full length snag that had to come down either in or out of control. If it had fallen out of control it would have side windered half a dozen smaller 3-5' firs over a well traveled road. As a matter of fact 14,000 school kids travel it a year. I can't think of a worse visual than having a bus load of kids hit by a tree like this. This is the same road that SlowP referred to as having a man killed in 09 by a falling tree.


 
Hell of a stick! I would have paid to see that one in person.


----------



## nw axe man

Yeah, when it went the whole thing came down over the stump about 40 feet up. Got a little up my neck on that one. About 40-50 feet up it turned into the most beautiful clear yellow fir you've ever seen. It's still laying there, rotting. I had two video cameras on that one as I figured it would be the last really big fir I'd ever fall. Also had a still photographer that took about 450 still pics. Pretty impressive when it went.


----------



## slowp

Is that the exploded into toothpicks snag across the road from the Lone Tree (55) road?


----------



## nw axe man

slowp said:


> Is that the exploded into toothpicks snag across the road from the Lone Tree (55) road?


 
Yeah, that's the one. Where were you on that one? I would have thought you'd have been there.


----------



## bitzer

Nice pics Sam! Good to see I'm not the only one in winter still. 2-3 inches of snow on the ground today with occasional thunder. The snow turned to freezing rain and now its startin to firm up for the night. 

The latest snowfall I can remember was about 20 years ago on May 15. We got about a foot that day and a lot of trees came down. I was nearly squished that day by a Maple in my back yard.


----------



## Rounder

bitzer said:


> Nice pics Sam! Good to see I'm not the only one in winter still. 2-3 inches of snow on the ground today with occasional thunder. The snow turned to freezing rain and now its startin to firm up for the night.
> 
> The latest snowfall I can remember was about 20 years ago on May 15. We got about a foot that day and a lot of trees came down. I was nearly squished that day by a Maple in my back yard.


 
It's getting a bit old...I drag the winter boots to work until about June 15th for back up. One of the worst snow storms I've ever been in was on June 6th a few years ago. It snowed about 3 feet on the job that day. I've never seen my tent wetter of flatter.


----------



## Rounder

Metals406 said:


> Hahahah, that's funny right there!
> 
> Sam, that's dang near line ground you boys are on!


 
The slope wasn't too bad, but scary as hell with loose rock everywhere and a house and vehicles below us. Like walking through a damn minefield. Those rocks absolutely screamed down the hill if you turned one loose.


----------



## bitzer

mtsamloggit said:


> It's getting a bit old...I drag the winter boots to work until about June 15th for back up. One of the worst snow storms I've ever been in was on June 6th a few years ago. It snowed about 3 feet on the job that day. I've never seen my tent wetter of flatter.


 
I agree. Its gettin old here too. I was in a summer snow out your way one time when I was younger. Glacier national park in August. About a foot of snow fell that day. We boogied before they closed some of the roads out of the park. 

We had 80 some degrees a week before last Sunday and now this BS again. Hey at least you've got the panaoramic views though!


----------



## RandyMac

mtsamloggit said:


> The slope wasn't too bad, but scary as hell with loose rock everywhere and a house and vehicles below us. Like walking through a damn minefield. Those rocks absolutely screamed down the hill if you turned one loose.


 
Was like that in parts of the Sierras, lots of rocks and signs of civilization. People build in the dammest places and have trees logged, either as an afterthought after building or a newer owner of an older place.


----------



## Gologit

RandyMac said:


> Was like that in parts of the Sierras, lots of rocks and signs of civilization. People build in the dammest places and have trees logged, either as an afterthought after building or a newer owner of an older place.


 
It's _still_ like that.


----------



## slowp

nw axe man said:


> Yeah, that's the one. Where were you on that one? I would have thought you'd have been there.



I was probably up harassing loggers somewhere.


----------



## RandyMac

I played at logging one whole season taking out timber around cabins, campgrounds and such. If you discounted power/water/phone lines, Aunt Mable's favorite Cedar and structures, it was easy money.


----------



## OregonSawyer

forestryworks said:


> Hell of a stick! I would have paid to see that one in person.


 
x2!

I love the pics! Keep them coming!

Better yet - if you get around to it - post up one of the videos


----------



## forestryworks

Using the new DCS, Inc. wrap handle. I dig it! Thanks, Nate!

This is one of the last hazard trees I am cutting at this state park for my volunteer job. Should finish the rest of them this week.

More time for the part-time timber falling job I hope.

Edit: A few things I like about this handle. It didn't take me long to get used to the different geometry it has than what is found on a 3/4 wrap. At first, I thought a smaller diameter handle might be a negative, but it's not at all. I really like the "pickup bed" grip stuff. 

One of my complaints with the USA handlebars is the cheap rubber hose that it used on it - doesn't take much of a beating if you have to make low stumps. I had mine all wrapped up in electrical tape. The DCS handlebars should take a beating pretty well.

I really like the corners of the handlebar on both the clutch and flywheel sides. Great for the humboldt and the conventional undercuts. On the backcuts the transition is nice when flipping the saw from the undercut to dogging in and sweeping.

Overall a great handlebar. I'd be interested in what others have to say about it, and how they think it compares to other handlebars of the same full wrap style.
<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/5u1k7IYVuFI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


----------



## 2yb3

coastalfaller said:


> .......so here's a couple more


 
just beautiful wood, howd you fall it,, as for all the haters calling photoshop, theyre just jealous cause they got tiny wood lol


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## Rounder

Slick handlebar Jameson, and Nate. I gotta pay Nate a visit one of these days.

Nate, if you're out there, I'll be back on Swan Lake one of these days this Spring.......You'll have to come visit camp for an evening - Sam


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## hammerlogging

Greenwedge said:


> Do you guys think I could make any money with this outfit?
> >


 
Hollywood!


----------



## Metals406

mtsamloggit said:


> Slick handlebar Jameson, and Nate. I gotta pay Nate a visit one of these days.
> 
> Nate, if you're out there, I'll be back on Swan Lake one of these days this Spring.......You'll have to come visit camp for an evening - Sam


 
Heck yeah!! Can I "accidentally" cut some trees down too?


----------



## Rounder

I'll give you a ring when we head North.

One of the guys I work for bought a new mini logging machine. We tried it out today.

View attachment 181639


View attachment 181641


Worked pretty nice, made brushwork easy, put a truck load in the road.

Couple pics of cutting pard Aaron.

View attachment 181642

View attachment 181644

These trees had some serious hardware in the first eight feet...had to get a little creative.

View attachment 181643


----------



## Rounder

One more, nobody would take a pic of me...had to take one of my saw though. Axed the bark off this tree to try and get around some serious iron. Didn't avoid the vertical barb wire about four inches from the pith. Not sure how the #### that ends up like that in a tree, but chain does not agree with it - Sam

View attachment 181648


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## schmuck.k

good pics sam


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## Samlock

That sure looks like an ugly place. Iron fences, junk, glass... I just found an iron rake stashed inside an ash. I bet they've been looking for that rake for some time. Some of these days I'm going to buy me a metal detector. If I get cured, financially.


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## Metals406

Cool pics Sam! Man you boys are cut'n Pondy a lot down there.


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## nw axe man

Here's one I did a few years ago. Some knucklehead finally came to his better judgement and stopped before he got himself into some serious trouble. He started the backcut but chickened out. I bought the tree for firewood. As Forestryworks says, no time for sissy axes here.


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## Metals406

nw axe man said:


> Here's one I did a few years ago. Some knucklehead finally came to his better judgement and stopped before he got himself into some serious trouble. He started the backcut but chickened out. I bought the tree for firewood. As Forestryworks says, no time for sissy axes here.


 
I ain't never seen a Ford springboard before! :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## nw axe man

Metals406 said:


> I ain't never seen a Ford springboard before! :hmm3grin2orange:



Gotta have feet wide like a duck long like a ski to wrap over the bed rails. The tough part about having a mobile spring board is coordinating with the operator of the springboard. You can get dumped pretty quick.


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## Rounder

Metals406 said:


> Cool pics Sam! Man you boys are cut'n Pondy a lot down there.


 
Those little pine beetles are keeping us busy lately.


----------



## slowp

nw axe man said:


> Gotta have feet wide like a duck long like a ski to wrap over the bed rails. The tough part about having a mobile spring board is coordinating with the operator of the springboard. You can get dumped pretty quick.



I would assume the feet are spikeless? 

Hmmmm. Magnets might be handy for that.


----------



## Metals406

mtsamloggit said:


> Those little pine beetles are keeping us busy lately.


 
Them little buggers are sure good at what they do. If we don't watch out and be proactive, we'll end up having 4 million acres dead like Colorado. :taped:


----------



## bitzer

Hey nice Pics Sam and NW Axe!

Sam I know the hardware all too well. 

Heres one falling in reverse from yesterday. Had a buddy call me over the weekend that needed some stumps put back. They were obstructing his hunting views. All of them were Cedar. This had the biggest ball. I apologize for the terrible quality. I had actually taken a video of it, but when I walked back to the camera it had been knocked over and shut off. Kinda pist me off (and still does). I really wanted to see this one. A big puddle had formed in behind it and probably made a hell of a splash.

For some reason I had taken a still with the crappy video camera just to see what it looked like. I think I jinxed myself. My saw work was just about text book. Dogged into the top and swung down towards me cutting out the entire far half, pulled out and underbucked the near bottom quarter with a little reamin and then tripped the near top quarter WOT at arms lengths with the kerf a little offset to the stem so the stump didn't grab the saw. Good fun. I'm ready for a hundred more. The ball was probably 8 foot high and maybe 20 foot wide. Pretty good size for these parts. 













View attachment 181946

View attachment 181947


----------



## nw axe man

bitzer said:


> Hey nice Pics Sam and NW Axe!
> 
> Sam I know the hardware all too well.
> 
> Heres one falling in reverse from yesterday. Had a buddy call me over the weekend that needed some stumps put back. They were obstructing his hunting views. All of them were Cedar. This had the biggest ball. I apologize for the terrible quality. I had actually taken a video of it, but when I walked back to the camera it had been knocked over and shut off. Kinda pist me off (and still does). I really wanted to see this one. A big puddle had formed in behind it and probably made a hell of a splash.
> 
> For some reason I had taken a still with the crappy video camera just to see what it looked like. I think I jinxed myself. My saw work was just about text book. Dogged into the top and swung down towards me cutting out the entire far half, pulled out and underbucked the near bottom quarter with a little reamin and then tripped the near top quarter WOT at arms lengths with the kerf a little offset to the stem so the stump didn't grab the saw. Good fun. I'm ready for a hundred more. The ball was probably 8 foot high and maybe 20 foot wide. Pretty good size for these parts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 181946
> 
> View attachment 181947


Reminds me of the guy on the peninsula that bucked a nice fir off the root wad. I guess it was about time for lunch so he sat down and leaned up against the underside of the root wad to eat. They hunted for him for quite a while till they found him stuffed under the root wad over his lunch pail. Got to pay attention even after they've been cut off for a while.
Nice job on the windfall. Keep it up and be safe.


----------



## forestryworks

bitzer, that tree ain't gonna wear your hard hat for you. Put it on your head


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## Rounder

"Hey nice Pics Sam and NW Axe!

Sam I know the hardware all too well. "

This residential stuff is new to me....I'm not sure I like it, lol. I'd much prefer to be 1,000 feet below the road in the middle of nowhere, a long ways behind a gate. Whatever it takes to stay busy though in this day and age- Sam


----------



## coastalfaller

nw axe man said:


> Reminds me of the guy on the peninsula that bucked a nice fir off the root wad. I guess it was about time for lunch so he sat down and leaned up against the underside of the root wad to eat. They hunted for him for quite a while till they found him stuffed under the root wad over his lunch pail. Got to pay attention even after they've been cut off for a while.
> Nice job on the windfall. Keep it up and be safe.


 
Heard of a similar one where they had to use dogs to find the guy. He had seemingly just disappeared, except his saw, axe and wedge belt were at his last tree.


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## RandyMac

I hear root wads are good for hiding bodies.


----------



## Gologit

mtsamloggit said:


> "Hey nice Pics Sam and NW Axe!
> 
> Sam I know the hardware all too well. "
> 
> This residential stuff is new to me....I'm not sure I like it, lol. I'd much prefer to be 1,000 feet below the road in the middle of nowhere, a long ways behind a gate. Whatever it takes to stay busy though in this day and age- Sam


 
Yup. I do a little residential stuff in the winter...as little as possible. Being in the woods is better. No civilians.

But you're right...sometimes you have to make a payday.


----------



## bitzer

NWAxe- Thanks! So the guy cut the stem loose and then sat on the back side of the ball? I wouldn't go near the thing if it didn't move. 

Forestry- I have not adjusted to the tropical heat wave we've been having (broke 50 degrees that day). I had a pretty good sweat goin stumblin around that swamp. I was built for higher altitiudes and colder temps. The hat on the ground in the after-shot was because I threw it axe-men style with a string of explitives! Just kiddin, it takes quit a bit to get me riled up. 

Some damn fool nailed some barb-wire hangers on this tree at one time. I snapped them off prior to cutting, but it still made me a little leary with a near-new chain. I've toasted many a new chain on nails, screws, barb wire, bullets, etc. It never fails when working in farm country or in the city. I cut full on into a dog chain once that was completely buried in a willow. It tore several teeth off the chain. I agree, I'd rather be far from the sound of passing cars. I'm making more money where the neighbors peak out of their windows though.


----------



## Samlock

*Breaking in a new saw*

The local toy shop made me an offer I couldn't refuse. The first trees dropped with a brand new Arctic 460. And the first video I've ever edited.

[video=youtube;G-0wGKgPbG4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-0wGKgPbG4[/video]


----------



## bitzer

Nice work man! Can you see any movement of the top when you crank on the jack before you cut? Just interesting to me to see how its done elsewhere. Its great seeing a guy from Europe using more than a 2" bar. Now you need one just a touch longer to walk the stem while your limbing. Your cutting partners will think you're nuts, but you'll be laughin when you're not tripping on limbs on the ground!


----------



## ChrisF

Nice work, Sam! Grats on the new saw.


----------



## Samlock

Thanks, Chris. I have some serious doubts about the Arctic Stihl. We tested it years ago here in Finland before it came to the market. At the time it wasn't too good in winter. It simply froze up stiff. But again, they came out with a bargain I had to take. 



bitzer said:


> Nice work man! Can you see any movement of the top when you crank on the jack before you cut? Just interesting to me to see how its done elsewhere. Its great seeing a guy from Europe using more than a 2" bar. Now you need one just a touch longer to walk the stem while your limbing. Your cutting partners will think you're nuts, but you'll be laughin when you're not tripping on limbs on the ground!



Bitzer, yes, I cranked on until I saw the top move. You can do that trick with the birch (not frozen), the holding wood takes a good deal of pressure. 

Haha, they actually wanted to sell the saw to me with a 30'' bar. With that I could have limbed sitting on the horseback, eh? I chose to take 20'', that's what I usually use on the residential jobs. Unfortunately 460 is very nose-balanced. It's a pity, because the engine cries for a 25'' bar.


----------



## RandyMac

Good job Sam. :msp_thumbup:


----------



## bitzer

Samlock said:


> Thanks, Chris. I have some serious doubts about the Arctic Stihl. We tested it years ago here in Finland before it came to the market. At the time it wasn't too good in winter. It simply froze up stiff. But again, they came out with a bargain I had to take.
> 
> 
> 
> Bitzer, yes, I cranked on until I saw the top move. You can do that trick with the birch (not frozen), the holding wood takes a good deal of pressure.
> 
> Haha, they actually wanted to sell the saw to me with a 30'' bar. With that I could have limbed sitting on the horseback, eh? I chose to take 20'', that's what I usually use on the residential jobs. Unfortunately 460 is very nose-balanced. It's a pity, because the engine cries for a 25'' bar.


 
Yeah I'd run at least a 25-28" on it, but you know what you like! Again nice work!


----------



## nw axe man

Samlock said:


> The local toy shop made me an offer I couldn't refuse. The first trees dropped with a brand new Arctic 460. And the first video I've ever edited.
> 
> [video=youtube;G-0wGKgPbG4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-0wGKgPbG4[/video]


Nice job, Sam.
I've never seen one of those "jacks" used before. Pretty slick. Was that a birch? If it is I didn't know that they grew so straight and tall. We have them up in the northern part of Washington state but they don't look like that.
Was the tree you were bucking a hemlock, spruce, what?


----------



## Samlock

nw axe man said:


> Nice job, Sam.
> I've never seen one of those "jacks" used before. Pretty slick. Was that a birch? If it is I didn't know that they grew so straight and tall. We have them up in the northern part of Washington state but they don't look like that.
> Was the tree you were bucking a hemlock, spruce, what?



Our woods are the western point of the huge taiga belt. Birches grow pretty well in taiga. But you don't have to travel any further than 700 kilometers south, as soon as you begin to see oaks and beeches, birches become curved and short. I guess it has something to do with the light. I have asked this question people in the local university, but they haven't given me any straight answer.

The timber I was bucking was indeed Norwegian spruce. Hemlocks here are planted as decorative trees and they don't grow very well. There was some nice spruces on that backyard, but I didn't catch them falling on the video.


----------



## ChrisF

The birches I get to play with in this part of Norway are twisted, sorry-ass creatures, they seem to grow around everything else, and I can count on one hand how many nice, straight birches I've felled over the last year and a half.

(Saw looks great, Sam, one of the best looking Stihls. Easily.)


----------



## Samlock

ChrisF said:


> The birches I get to play with in this part of Norway are twisted, sorry-ass creatures, they seem to grow around everything else, and I can count on one hand how many nice, straight birches I've felled over the last year and a half.
> 
> (Saw looks great, Sam, one of the best looking Stihls. Easily.)



I've never visited in Nord-Trondelag, just passed by long time ago, but I imagine that's because you are on the seaside of the Atlantic ocean. Lots of wind and sometimes good snowfalls. Birch is very flexible as a seedling and bends severely under the high wind and snow. Too much bending breaks the cells inside the wood and it won't grow in a healthy way anymore. The same thing happens here on the hillsides because of the snow. Birches look ugly, but spruces and pines do just fine.


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## Sport Faller

That jack is pretty cool, kinda looks like an updated, arm-snap free version of the Boker


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## 056 kid

Spying on Randy.


----------



## forestryworks

056 kid said:


> Spying on Randy.


 
Nice pics, Ted.


----------



## 056 kid

It's too bad these aren't real falling pics, my Dad looks the part haha.


----------



## RandyMac

Was that Walker Road or Howland Hill?


----------



## 056 kid

You know Randy, I don't even know, too busy surveying!
this will make it clearer for you I bet.

That sign was right by the pickup in the previous photos.


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## RandyMac

Off 199, halfway to the bridge.


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## 056 kid

Where's that in relation to the aforementioned locations?

Those trees where fat, but they where not tall, at least I don't think they where tall. 150 at best maybe? most of the larger ones where just glorified snags. 


I wonder if I could ever get away with it?


----------



## Gologit

056 kid said:


> I wonder if I could ever get away with it?


 
If you didn't you might become of of RandyMac's guests. :msp_smile:


----------



## 056 kid

Im sure I could probably not even get the saw hot before an appearance was made. But then again, maybe not:msp_razz:


----------



## RandyMac

056 kid said:


> Where's that in relation to the aforementioned locations?
> 
> *Howland Hill/Stout Grove are on the south side of the Smith, the drive is a must do.*
> Those trees where fat, but they where not tall, at least I don't think they where tall. 150 at best maybe? most of the larger ones where just glorified snags.
> *Oh yeah, have your eyes checked. There are many 100s of trees along 199 that top 300' easy.*
> 
> 
> I wonder if I could ever get away with it?


 * Green Diamond has OG left, there is some prime stuff up Wilson Creek. Right now I have my eye on three possible OG Redwoods on private land, one is pretty nice, the others will require thought.*


----------



## 056 kid

I want some trigger time, Let me know Randyman! iL be the brawn, you be the brain. I'l take a stab at the brain part too though.

the trees I was judging height on where specific to the area in the pics.


----------



## forestryworks

I'd like to make it out that way sometime.

I was down in Yosemite years ago, but I was really young then and didn't pay attention to the trees.


----------



## Gologit

forestryworks said:


> I'd like to make it out that way sometime.
> 
> I was down in Yosemite years ago, but I was really young then and didn't pay attention to the trees.


 
But _now_ you'd be looking at the trees...and not much else. That's one of the problems with being in this business...we're always looking at trees and sizing them up and figuring how they'd lay out. We even do it with trees we have no intention of cutting.

Last time I drove south through Oregon on Hwy. 101 I was busy daydreaming trees and I think I completely missed the Pacific Ocean.


----------



## Metals406

Gologit said:


> But _now_ you'd be looking at the trees...and not much else. That's one of the problems with being in this business...we're always looking at trees and sizing them up and figuring how they'd lay out. We even do it with trees we have no intention of cutting.
> 
> *Last time I drove south through Oregon on Hwy. 101 I was busy daydreaming trees and I think I completely missed the Pacific Ocean*.


 
:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## 056 kid

Between the trees, and that gin clear water running around everywhere, how knows what I didn't see. Do the fish run in the Illinois river this time of year? What about the Winchuck?


----------



## Samlock

Gologit said:


> But _now_ you'd be looking at the trees...and not much else. That's one of the problems with being in this business...we're always looking at trees and sizing them up and figuring how they'd lay out. We even do it with trees we have no intention of cutting.
> 
> Last time I drove south through Oregon on Hwy. 101 I was busy daydreaming trees and I think I completely missed the Pacific Ocean.



"You can't see the wood for the trees, can you?" - That's what my brother in law (not in the biz) says every time we are driving around some new places and my eyes are caught in the treetops.


----------



## OregonSawyer

Gologit said:


> But _now_ you'd be looking at the trees...and not much else. That's one of the problems with being in this business...we're always looking at trees and sizing them up and figuring how they'd lay out. We even do it with trees we have no intention of cutting.
> 
> Last time I drove south through Oregon on Hwy. 101 I was busy daydreaming trees and I think I completely missed the Pacific Ocean.


 
I do that everywhere I go... The gf always gives me a hard time about it. I usually take it even one step further though, being a sawyer I am typically envisioning the timbers I could potentially cut out of them. I constantly find myself lost in thought while riding shotgun in the woods. Luckily for me, I am blessed with the PNW OG trees to feed my appetite!

Such as this one, just a couple of hours from home... The largest Coastal Douggie in the world!


----------



## bitzer

Gologit said:


> But _now_ you'd be looking at the trees...and not much else. That's one of the problems with being in this business...we're always looking at trees and sizing them up and figuring how they'd lay out. We even do it with trees we have no intention of cutting.
> 
> Last time I drove south through Oregon on Hwy. 101 I was busy daydreaming trees and I think I completely missed the Pacific Ocean.


 
That or analyzing stumps.


----------



## bitzer

OregonSawyer said:


> I do that everywhere I go... The gf always gives me a hard time about it. I usually take it even one step further though, being a sawyer I am typically envisioning the timbers I could potentially cut out of them. I constantly find myself lost in thought while riding shotgun in the woods. Luckily for me, I am blessed with the PNW OG trees to feed my appetite!
> 
> Such as this one, just a couple of hours from home... The largest Coastal Douggie in the world!


 
Yeah the wife gives me a hard time too! If we go for a hike through the woods with the kids or even driving down the road. "Would you quit looking at the damn trees!"


----------



## Jacob J.

OregonSawyer said:


> Such as this one, just a couple of hours from home... The largest Coastal Douggie in the world!


 
That looks like the Doerner Fir. That is one impressive tree. There's also an eleven-foot Doug Fir up by Snowbird trail off Little River rd. up out of Glide.


----------



## nw axe man

OregonSawyer said:


> I do that everywhere I go... The gf always gives me a hard time about it. I usually take it even one step further though, being a sawyer I am typically envisioning the timbers I could potentially cut out of them. I constantly find myself lost in thought while riding shotgun in the woods. Luckily for me, I am blessed with the PNW OG trees to feed my appetite!
> 
> Such as this one, just a couple of hours from home... The largest Coastal Douggie in the world!


That's a dandy. Where is it located? What's the diameter and height. I'd like to go visit that one sometime. I've heard that the largest ones are on the Willemette NF.


----------



## OregonSawyer

nw axe man said:


> That's a dandy. Where is it located? What's the diameter and height. I'd like to go visit that one sometime. I've heard that the largest ones are on the Willemette NF.


 
It is the "Doerner Fir" as Jacob suggested... Located between Roseburg and Coos Bay essentially. If my memory serves me it is 11 1/2 ft diameter and ~320 ft tall? 

I don't recall exact directions but they can be found through the BLM office in Roseburg. Or if you ask around in Winston or Tenmile, they can point you in the right direction.


----------



## 2yb3

OregonSawyer said:


> I do that everywhere I go... The gf always gives me a hard time about it. I usually take it even one step further though, being a sawyer I am typically envisioning the timbers I could potentially cut out of them. I constantly find myself lost in thought while riding shotgun in the woods. Luckily for me, I am blessed with the PNW OG trees to feed my appetite!
> 
> Such as this one, just a couple of hours from home... The largest Coastal Douggie in the world!


 
wouldnt that be the red creek fir 






How to get to the Red Creek Fir in Port Renfrew, BC


----------



## OregonSawyer

2yb3 said:


> wouldnt that be the red creek fir
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How to get to the Red Creek Fir in Port Renfrew, BC


 
I would venture to say that the "Red Creek Fir" is not of the Coastal variety...? I'm fairly certain that as far as Coastal Doug's go, Oregon and Washington have been going back and forth for about 30 years on who had the biggest one. In fact, Oregon State University has a section of the previous record holder (that was 14 ft diameter before it blew down) at their College of Forestry. Perhaps the Doerner (the one I posted) is simply the tallest, not necessarily the largest DBH


----------



## paccity

OregonSawyer said:


> I would venture to say that the "Red Creek Fir" is not of the Coastal variety...? I'm fairly certain that as far as Coastal Doug's go, Oregon and Washington have been going back and forth for about 30 years on who had the biggest one. In fact, Oregon State University has a section of the previous record holder (that was 14 ft diameter before it blew down) at their College of Forestry. Perhaps the Doerner (the one I posted) is simply the tallest, not necessarily the largest DBH


 
i think the osu tree came from the valley of the giants stand. if i remember it was the record holder till it bleww down. i think they determand it by the est. board feet it had . it's still there with a big cookie cut out of it. it was called big guy .


----------



## paccity

estimated to be over 600 years old, stood approximately 230 feet (70 m) above the forest floor, and had an estimated 36.5-foot (11.1 m) girth . this pic is allmost halfway up the trunk . theres stiil a lot in that grove that are still impresive.View attachment 182533


----------



## RandyMac

We are headed up the canyon of the Smith tomorrow, I have many favorites trees to watch for. The broad range of trees between Crescent City and Grants Pass is amazing, Coast Redwoods, pine barrens, Valley Oaks, OG DF stands, not much is missing. One of my sit on the tailgate and fall timber places, is Cal-Barrel Road in Prairie Creek SP. I never pass by without stopping, at the very least to have a smoke.

There are/were a bunch of very big Doug Firs, like any other tree, many record breakers got shat out of a lumber mill.


----------



## madhatte

Biggest fir I've ever measured was in the Oregon Coast Range near Dallas; as I recall, it measured close to 12' DBH and was just kissing 300' tall. Biggest I've measured on the ownership where I work now is 110" DBH and 240' tall. It's important to note that really big trees are really hard to measure -- tops blown out, butt swell, etc. make precise measurement a task. Normal commercial timber of 32" DBH and ~160' tall are a snap by comparison.


----------



## paccity

madhatte said:


> Biggest fir I've ever measured was in the Oregon Coast Range near Dallas; as I recall, it measured close to 12' DBH and was just kissing 300' tall. Biggest I've measured on the ownership where I work now is 110" DBH and 240' tall. It's important to note that really big trees are really hard to measure -- tops blown out, butt swell, etc. make precise measurement a task. Normal commercial timber of 32" DBH and ~160' tall are a snap by comparison.


 
it wasn't valley of the giant's was it? it's blm land now.


----------



## nw axe man

View attachment 182547


OregonSawyer said:


> It is the "Doerner Fir" as Jacob suggested... Located between Roseburg and Coos Bay essentially. If my memory serves me it is 11 1/2 ft diameter and ~320 ft tall?
> 
> I don't recall exact directions but they can be found through the BLM office in Roseburg. Or if you ask around in Winston or Tenmile, they can point you in the right direction.


Here's one that my uncle and I bucked up that my dad fell. I know it's not as big as the ones shown in this thread but it was a nice one. I'll not forget these days.


----------



## hammerlogging

Thats a beautiful picture. Classic.


----------



## madhatte

nw axe man said:


> View attachment 182547
> 
> Here's one that my uncle and I bucked up that my dad fell. I know it's not as big as the ones shown in this thread but it was a nice one. I'll not forget these days.



Holy cow, I know that pic from the Roberge book. That is LEGIT!



paccity said:


> it wasn't valley of the giant's was it? it's blm land now.



BLM land yes, Valley Of The Giants, no. It was on some ridge top above Mill Creek west of Dallas, OR.


----------



## bitzer

Awesome pic! Thats a wall-hanger for sure!


----------



## paccity

madhatte said:


> Holy cow, I know that pic from the Roberge book. That is LEGIT!
> 
> 
> 
> BLM land yes, Valley Of The Giants, no. It was on some ridge top above Mill Creek west of Dallas, OR.


 
think i know where your talking about, there was a nice stand that started from the creek bottom that went up to the east . iknow they cut the lower stuff, i'll have to go over and see if it is still there.


----------



## MR4WD

RandyMac said:


> There are/were a bunch of very big Doug Firs, like any other tree, many record breakers got shat out of a lumber mill.



That's the truth. I'm in a weird interior zone with a mix of interior and coastal fir. There's a lot of interior fir 10' dbh around here, but with the tops blown out of them or so full of defects, they'd hardly make firewood. I've seen quite a few gorgeous coastal type pumpkins laying on the ground rotting away laid over from erosion too.

Imagine the old days when everything was huge?


----------



## madhatte

paccity said:


> think i know where your talking about, there was a nice stand that started from the creek bottom that went up to the east . iknow they cut the lower stuff, i'll have to go over and see if it is still there.


 
You'll know you're on my trail when you find the orange tags on the bearing trees. This was for a BLM study begun in 1997, so the site should have been revisited twice now, which means the tags should be pretty fresh. It's a mile or so out past the end of a forgotten firebreak. I want to say the tree I'm thinking of is on a north-facing slope, and the ridge must run from east to west, if my memory of where the sun was is any indication. There was a gate at the bottom on a bridge across the creek itself. I also remember there being a county park or something about two miles out. I almost think I could find it again if I was there, but I don't have maps or pictures or anything, just hazy memory. One problem with forestry as a discipline is how often I only see places once.


----------



## RandyMac

Same with logging, you rarely go back. There are a few forestry project places I need to check on, someday.


----------



## paccity

madhatte said:


> You'll know you're on my trail when you find the orange tags on the bearing trees. This was for a BLM study begun in 1997, so the site should have been revisited twice now, which means the tags should be pretty fresh. It's a mile or so out past the end of a forgotten firebreak. I want to say the tree I'm thinking of is on a north-facing slope, and the ridge must run from east to west, if my memory of where the sun was is any indication. There was a gate at the bottom on a bridge across the creek itself. I also remember there being a county park or something about two miles out. I almost think I could find it again if I was there, but I don't have maps or pictures or anything, just hazy memory. One problem with forestry as a discipline is how often I only see places once.


 
i know where your talking about, the county park is no more, as are the trees that where there . i know the bridge your talking about. maybe next weekend i'll go get some exersize. this winter they lost a man on an escavator up there when he laid it over into the creek. worked for rice logging. :msp_sad:


----------



## paccity

RandyMac said:


> Same with logging, you rarely go back. There are a few forestry project places I need to check on, someday.


 
yea, i go up most every hunting season to my first show. hope i'm around when they take ti again, i'll pull up a stump and remember the hell that i remember.


----------



## nw axe man

RandyMac said:


> Same with logging, you rarely go back. There are a few forestry project places I need to check on, someday.


It's pretty hard sometimes to go back 20-40 years to where you worked and think about all men you worked with, timber you fell, close calls you had, good times and bad. I live on the northern edge of the Gifford Pinchot and where I worked is my back yard, literally. Just went up as high as I could till the snow stopped me this weekend. Took a 14 year old boy with me that wasn't afraid to ask questions. That'll definitely bring up some memories. It always brings me back to once in the woods, always in the woods. There's just no getting around it.


----------



## Gologit

nw axe man said:


> It's pretty hard sometimes to go back 20-40 years to where you worked and think about all men you worked with, timber you fell, close calls you had, good times and bad. I live on the northern edge of the Gifford Pinchot and where I worked is my back yard, literally. Just went up as high as I could till the snow stopped me this weekend. Took a 14 year old boy with me that wasn't afraid to ask questions. That'll definitely bring up some memories. It always brings me back to once in the woods, always in the woods. There's just no getting around it.


 
Very true. But...you guys that _aren't_ in the woods right now are probably sleeping in.

I'm on my second cup of coffee, the lunch, thermos and boots are stacked by the door and I wish _I_ was sleeping in.


----------



## nw axe man

Gologit said:


> Very true. But...you guys that _aren't_ in the woods right now are probably sleeping in.
> 
> I'm on my second cup of coffee, the lunch, thermos and boots are stacked by the door and I wish _I_ was sleeping in.


Yeah, I pay attention to the times when people post here. I've seen the times you post and, you're right, anything after the times you post is sleeping in. Heck, I thought I was doing pretty good with office hours getting up at 5 every morning. I guess it's all a matter of perspective, isn't it?
I do remember those hoot owling days well. Not that I minded to much. I also remember coming home early and having time to do the things I wanted to do. I did like that.
You must have some pretty good butt time before you get to the job. Turn the radio on and drink lots of coffee.


----------



## slowp

I can sleep in now! I made it to 7 the other morning and it seemed like noon.

I liked to surprise the crews during hootowl and be right behind their crummy. Of course, I don't do heat well so I liked getting things done before it got hot. 

I tried to find some units we burned in the blast area. It is covered in trees now, and nothing looks familiar.


----------



## madhatte

paccity said:


> this winter they lost a man on an escavator up there when he laid it over into the creek.



Is that mill/logging outfit out of Bellfountain still in business? I remember they had something similar happen a few years back. I talked to the guy's nephew about it over beers in the Alpine tavern. Evidently folks were pretty shook up about that incident.


----------



## RandyMac

Returning to the scene of the crime......LOL!!

A 30 year old stump of mine, less than a hundred feet off the Ave of Giants, near Dyerville. Felled it with a 3.5 cube saw.


----------



## paccity

madhatte said:


> Is that mill/logging outfit out of Bellfountain still in business? I remember they had something similar happen a few years back. I talked to the guy's nephew about it over beers in the Alpine tavern. Evidently folks were pretty shook up about that incident.


 
you thinkin of parker logging? i think there still oporating.


----------



## madhatte

Parker, yeah, that sounds right. Been awhile.


----------



## nw axe man

RandyMac said:


> Returning to the scene of the crime......LOL!!
> 
> A 30 year old stump of mine, less than a hundred feet off the Ave of Giants, near Dyerville. Felled it with a 3.5 cube saw.



We need to start a new thread called "stumps I have known." lol
Was that a redwood?


----------



## RandyMac

nw axe man said:


> We need to start a new thread called "stumps I have known." lol
> Was that a redwood?


 
Yep, lightning struck. The top, what was left of it, went almost to the road.


----------



## nw axe man

Was there fire in it when you cut it? Those are always fun with coals falling down your shirt. Does make for an exciting day, though.
I thought I was going to come down your way but had to cancel out two sessions as they didn't get hold of me in time. Next time I'm down your way I'll give you a heads up.


----------



## forestryworks

Here's a big'un for this neck of the woods. 2nd largest pine in OK.

48" diameter or so. Not all that tall, around 75ft.

<iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/PajgvtpFQpk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


----------



## RandyMac

forestryworks said:


> Here's a big'un for this neck of the woods. 2nd largest pine in OK.
> 
> 48" diameter or so. Not all that tall, around 75ft.
> 
> I thought I'd be watchin' you kill it.


----------



## T_F_E

RandyMac said:


> forestryworks said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a big'un for this neck of the woods. 2nd largest pine in OK.
> 
> 48" diameter or so. Not all that tall, around 75ft.
> 
> I thought I'd be watchin' you kill it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also disappointed
Click to expand...


----------



## forestryworks

Ha, this one will stand. It's on state ground.

Maybe when it dies I'll get the call.


----------



## RandyMac

forestryworks said:


> Ha, this one will stand. It's on state ground.
> 
> Maybe when it dies I'll get the call.


 
copper nails


----------



## RandyMac

nw axe man said:


> Was there fire in it when you cut it? Those are always fun with coals falling down your shirt. Does make for an exciting day, though.
> I thought I was going to come down your way but had to cancel out two sessions as they didn't get hold of me in time. Next time I'm down your way I'll give you a heads up.


 
It was just smoldering like a cheap cigar. I was on my way to the Ranch and saw the smoke, dropped by to laugh at the fire crew, Redwood duff is bottomless. I felled it with my brush saw, a Mac 10-10. Cousin Kev sulked in the truck, he thought I was going to use his new 045, the look on his face when I grabbed the little saw, was worth a case of beer. The Park Ranger was notified, after the fact
You gotta deal, I'll see if I can remember to PM some contact info. Was in the car all day, my ears are ringing off the hook.


----------



## slowp

RandyMac said:


> copper nails



The rich people in Seattle use herbicide to improve the views of the sound.


----------



## Hddnis

slowp said:


> The rich people in Seattle use herbicide to improve the views of the sound.





I once got a call from one of those "rich people" asking if I could kill a tree for her in a way that would look like it died naturally. Trouble was I remembered her as lobbying for the tree cutting ban in that city. Turns out she bought a new house and then realized she would have a killer view if the trees were out of the way. I told her I was too honest to help her live by a double standard and if she wanted the tree down she could get the law changed back. Poor rich lady was so mad she was cussing at me.:hmm3grin2orange:

A year later the tree was dead. It got taken down by a hack in a rusty beater truck with Arizona plates. He dropped the top through her deck.



Mr. HE


----------



## nw axe man

Hddnis said:


> I once got a call from one of those "rich people" asking if I could kill a tree for her in a way that would look like it died naturally. Trouble was I remembered her as lobbying for the tree cutting ban in that city. Turns out she bought a new house and then realized she would have a killer view if the trees were out of the way. I told her I was too honest to help her live by a double standard and if she wanted the tree down she could get the law changed back. Poor rich lady was so mad she was cussing at me.:hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> A year later the tree was dead. It got taken down by a hack in a rusty beater truck with Arizona plates. He dropped the top through her deck.
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. HE


Good on ya, mate.


----------



## wowzers

madhatte said:


> Biggest fir I've ever measured was in the Oregon Coast Range near Dallas; as I recall, it measured close to 12' DBH and was just kissing 300' tall. Biggest I've measured on the ownership where I work now is 110" DBH and 240' tall. It's important to note that really big trees are really hard to measure -- tops blown out, butt swell, etc. make precise measurement a task. Normal commercial timber of 32" DBH and ~160' tall are a snap by comparison.


 
How far back to you have to pull to shoot a 300'er?


----------



## madhatte

wowzers said:


> How far back to you have to pull to shoot a 300'er?


 
Using a clinometer marked in Topo scale, you can get a fairly good shot pulling off to 2 chains. It'll read 150', multiply by 2 to get 300. If your clino is only marked in Percent scale, the increments above 100 are pretty small. I'd go 300 feet for that one to make it read 100. I vastly prefer Topo scale. It's just easier to use because everything in forestry and surveying is based on chains. Oh, and conversions are simple, too: 80 ch to a mile, 20 meters to a chain.


----------



## forestryworks

<iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/znmwPl7BMwc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


----------



## 056 kid

Your work is consistent and methodical Jameson, Are you ready to work on speed yet?


----------



## forestryworks

056 kid said:


> Your work is consistent and methodical Jameson, Are you ready to work on speed yet?


 
When the opportunity presents itself, yes.

We'll see how fast I can go on this mom and pop falling job saturday. Straight falling - lately it's been taking 50-60 trees to make a load.

12" and up, so not as fast as a clearcut would be.


----------



## nw axe man

forestryworks said:


> When the opportunity presents itself, yes.
> 
> We'll see how fast I can go on this mom and pop falling job saturday. Straight falling - lately it's been taking 50-60 trees to make a load.
> 
> 12" and up, so not as fast as a clearcut would be.


Speed is great, Jameson, as long as you remember your hazard analysis and size ups. Good videos. 056 is right, you're very methodical. I might mention one thing I've seen in your videos, be careful of the one handed sawing. The best example I can think of is my dad cutting one handed with an 056 with a 3' bar. It swapped ends and he suffered 125 stitches in his right forearm. Took him out for quite a while. Cost him a moose hunt in BC. On a better note, I got to go on the hunt. Yes, I did get one. Have a great day and be safe.


----------



## Samlock

The forests there look really nice, Jameson. I suppose it's a privilege to work there.

Sam


----------



## Gologit

Speed is good. Quality work is better. Taking that little extra time to size one up and dropping it in a way that doesn't wreck it will pay off. A side-rod or a bullbuck will notice real quick who's doing what and they know good cutting from bad.

NW AxMan said it right...especially about the one handed sawing. We all do it, me included, but if you can keep two hands on the saw it's better.

You'll gain speed as you go along and you won't even be aware of it because it's a natural progression. Somebody will be watching you work and they'll make some comment like "Hey, that guy really puts the wood on the ground". And they'll be right.

But if I have the choice between a fast-as-hell tree thrasher and a guy who's maybe a step slower but doesn't wind up with a bunch of cut-outs and short logs that should have been long logs I'll take the slower guy every time.

That's one of the problems with being a faller. Your work is always on display. Every tree. And people look.


----------



## Rounder

Gologit said:


> Speed is good. Quality work is better. Taking that little extra time to size one up and dropping it in a way that doesn't wreck it will pay off. A side-rod or a bullbuck will notice real quick who's doing what and they know good cutting from bad.
> 
> NW AxMan said it right...especially about the one handed sawing. We all do it, me included, but if you can keep two hands on the saw it's better.
> 
> You'll gain speed as you go along and you won't even be aware of it because it's a natural progression. Somebody will be watching you work and they'll make some comment like "Hey, that guy really puts the wood on the ground". And they'll be right.
> 
> But if I have the choice between a fast-as-hell tree thrasher and a guy who's maybe a step slower but doesn't wind up with a bunch of cut-outs and short logs that should have been long logs I'll take the slower guy every time.
> 
> That's one of the problems with being a faller. Your work is always on display. Every tree. And people look.


 
Your stump and your logs are your signature. The guy I'm working for right now will send you down the road so fast it'll make your head spin if you're turning out less than perfect logs. Efficiency of movement and attention to detail are key to staying busy. Keep up the good work and be safe....speed ain't everything. -Sam


----------



## RandyMac

Yep, excellent work JC.
There is always someone watching, inspecting, keeping track.
Rate this stump was played a few times a day, along with "explain this" or otherwise known as "What in the heck were you thinking?"


----------



## Greystoke

Definitely doing good Jameson. Don't worry about the speed for now...your not bushelin...and if you ever do you will have had the time to practice all of your mechanics a lot. Keep it up pard! I would love to see you falling west coast timber someday....you have the right head for it


----------



## RandyMac

Speed will come along with practice, your skills are really showing.

The chain seems a touch grabby, maybe the rackers are a tiny bit low.


----------



## 056 kid

Speed doesn't have to mean working faster. getting the diagonal cut in the undercut right the first time saves a lot of time, but just requires a few seconds of extra focus and lots of practice.
The Okie won't have any trouble..


----------



## coastalfaller

Gologit said:


> Speed is good. Quality work is better. Taking that little extra time to size one up and dropping it in a way that doesn't wreck it will pay off. A side-rod or a bullbuck will notice real quick who's doing what and they know good cutting from bad.
> 
> NW AxMan said it right...especially about the one handed sawing. We all do it, me included, but if you can keep two hands on the saw it's better.
> 
> You'll gain speed as you go along and you won't even be aware of it because it's a natural progression. Somebody will be watching you work and they'll make some comment like "Hey, that guy really puts the wood on the ground". And they'll be right.
> 
> But if I have the choice between a fast-as-hell tree thrasher and a guy who's maybe a step slower but doesn't wind up with a bunch of cut-outs and short logs that should have been long logs I'll take the slower guy every time.
> 
> That's one of the problems with being a faller. Your work is always on display. Every tree. And people look.


 
Well said, Bob, good post. Can't agree more. The speed will come naturally. Focus on your technique, gaining efficiencies the rest will come. I've got a guy that works for me that has to be the poster boy for efficiency! You watch him on the hill in the morning and he just ambles along, in no great hurry. You come back at the end of the day and the whole forest is on the ground! Laid out and bucked perfectly too! lol


----------



## Gologit

coastalfaller said:


> Well said, Bob, good post. Can't agree more. The speed will come naturally. Focus on your technique, gaining efficiencies the rest will come. I've got a guy that works for me that has to be the poster boy for efficiency! You watch him on the hill in the morning and he just ambles along, in no great hurry. You come back at the end of the day and the whole forest is on the ground! Laid out and bucked perfectly too! lol


 
That sounds like me. Sometimes I look like I'm hardly moving. Sometimes I'm not, either. :msp_biggrin:

It's true though...you watch the guys that make every move count, fallers, loaders, Catskinners, whatever...and they never look like they're in a hurry. They're the ones that usually last a long time in this business.

They make the work look a lot easier than it really is. But that's a good thing.


----------



## Metals406

Jameson!! Did you call Bob??


----------



## forestryworks

056 kid said:


> Speed doesn't have to mean working faster. getting the diagonal cut in the undercut right the first time saves a lot of time, but just requires a few seconds of extra focus and lots of practice.
> The Okie won't have any trouble..



The Texan, lol



Metals406 said:


> Jameson!! Did you call Bob??


 
Not yet, school is kicking my ass so hard I gotta clear my throat to fart. Graduation today, "finish" next Wed.


----------



## nw axe man

forestryworks said:


> When the opportunity presents itself, yes.
> 
> We'll see how fast I can go on this mom and pop falling job saturday. Straight falling - lately it's been taking 50-60 trees to make a load.
> 
> 12" and up, so not as fast as a clearcut would be.


Well, Jameson, if you ever needed convincing that someone out there cared about your wellbeing, this thread should prove it to you.
I'm a newcomer to this site but I do have to say that I appreciate the encouragment that I see coming across the screen from the veterans on here. As far as I'm concerned this is how a forum should be presented and I'm quite pleased with the way you guys encourage those new to the business. Keep it up.


----------



## 056 kid

Yea, definitely in a class of it's own as far as how friendly the folks are, lots if intelligence here too. Very good people IMO. I may not be the best, but others compensate for that.. 
Thanks for putting up with it :msp_biggrin:. Jameson, you where an okie at once no?


----------



## madhatte

mtsamloggit said:


> Your stump and your logs are your signature.



Absolutely true, and for years after the fact, as well. I don't know how many times I've worked on a sale and seen stumps and layouts I didn't like the looks of, gone back to the office to see who did the work ten, twenty years ago, then looked to see if they were doing anything on our ownership currently. I have my favorite outfits (great after-sale clean-up, minimal disturbance, skid trails blocked, etc) and my not-so-favorite outfits (no attention to overlooked RMZ's, unfixed road damage, spiral-cut hams for stumps, poor adherence to "small fine print" in contract language). I can't do anything about who bids the highest and gets the sale, but I can lay out the sale such that it appeals more to the crews I prefer than to the others.


----------



## paccity

Jameson. i 'm shure there are a few guys out there to help ya break in, might not be easy at first but keep up the positive atitude and you'll go far . it's a commitment for sure.:msp_smile:


----------



## wowzers

madhatte said:


> Using a clinometer marked in Topo scale, you can get a fairly good shot pulling off to 2 chains. It'll read 150', multiply by 2 to get 300. If your clino is only marked in Percent scale, the increments above 100 are pretty small. I'd go 300 feet for that one to make it read 100. I vastly prefer Topo scale. It's just easier to use because everything in forestry and surveying is based on chains. Oh, and conversions are simple, too: 80 ch to a mile, 20 meters to a chain.


 
When I cruised I shot everything in TU's also. I was just curious if you had to really stretch out there to see the top. Also and oldtimer once told me when you start looking up at a real steep angle it's better to pull back a little further because a slight difference at steep angle makes a big difference in actual height.


----------



## madhatte

wowzers said:


> a slight difference at steep angle makes a big difference in actual height.



That's exactly why I avoid percent scale -- the increments in between marks get really small really quickly. You can minimize this effect some by habitually pulling tape cross-hill rather than uphill or downhill but even then you are pushing the accuracy of the instrument pretty hard up there at the top of the scale. Had a boss once who wanted me to measure slopes and heights to tenths of a percent -- which is impossible with a hand-held clino out at anything above about 10% slope -- so he said "make it up, it's more accurate". It is of note that he is no longer in business in these parts.


----------



## forestryworks

056 kid said:


> Thanks for putting up with it :msp_biggrin:. Jameson, you where an okie at once no?


 
Only a semi-Okie while going to forestry school. <----- Scratch that.

Rather, I was a Texan giving Okies a bunch of crap while going to forestry school and cutting down their trees!


----------



## bitzer

Nice work Jameson! Looks good man! Sure is leafy down there.


----------



## Gologit

It's going to be nice to have a forester in the woods who knows that Humboldt isn't just a county in northern California.


----------



## RandyMac

I think I am going to invent and promote the "Del Notre" cut, and spend all my time training folks how to pronouce it correctly.


----------



## Gologit

Del _Noter_ ? Del _Nortray?_


----------



## RandyMac

LOL
Del Nort


----------



## Metals406

RandyMac said:


> LOL
> Del Nort


 
Notre Damn?


----------



## slowp

For da yoopers, it is Up Nort Collyfonia, yah. 

A guy I know says that the sign on the other side of the Salmon River bridge in the west suburbs of Somes Bar is incorrect and Humboldt County has illegally claimed ten feet of Siskiyou County.


----------



## bitzer

Thats kinda like our "Up North". The "H" is silent.


----------



## RandyMac

Let go of it sweetp, just let it go.

Yay! Bitz got it!!!!

I'll come up with a convoluted diagram later


----------



## hammerlogging

Buena Vista, VA, pronounced "Bewna"-- correct me if I'm wrong Kid

and my favorite yet, Versailles, KY, pronounced phonetically, not Frenchish


----------



## mdavlee

That sounds right for Buena Vista. I knew a girl from there. Not sure on the Ky one. Never heard anyone local from there say it.


----------



## forestryworks

Went and cut some timber for the boss man today. Moved to a new tract - steeper and better timber than what it has been. The family was in town for graduation so I took them out to see the logging operation - they've never seen one before.







Couldn't get good footing. Not sure why I cut on the downhill side, but I did :msp_rolleyes:


----------



## forestryworks

One of the nicer trees in this strip.


----------



## forestryworks




----------



## forestryworks

Samlock said:


> The forests there look really nice, Jameson. I suppose it's a privilege to work there.



Except in the summers, lol.



Gologit said:


> That's one of the problems with being a faller. Your work is always on display. Every tree. And people look.





mtsamloggit said:


> Your stump and your logs are your signature.



Well said, both quotes.



RandyMac said:


> Yep, excellent work JC.



Thanks MacKendrick!



tarzanstree said:


> Definitely doing good Jameson. Don't worry about the speed for now...your not bushelin...and if you ever do you will have had the time to practice all of your mechanics a lot. Keep it up pard! I would love to see you falling west coast timber someday....you have the right head for it



Thanks pardner.



nw axe man said:


> Well, Jameson, if you ever needed convincing that someone out there cared about your wellbeing, this thread should prove it to you.
> I'm a newcomer to this site but I do have to say that I appreciate the encouragment that I see coming across the screen from the veterans on here. As far as I'm concerned this is how a forum should be presented and I'm quite pleased with the way you guys encourage those new to the business. Keep it up.



I agree. It's nice to have a resource such as this. I've learned a lot from a lot of guys on this site - you know who you are and you've all been a big help.


----------



## Gologit

*Jameson*

PM sent.


----------



## forestryworks

Gologit said:


> PM sent.


 
Ain't got it yet. Did the dog get the mailman? :msp_biggrin:


----------



## Metals406

forestryworks said:


> Ain't got it yet. Did the dog get the mailman? :msp_biggrin:


 
Bob's old school. . . He was using smoke signals.


----------



## Gologit

forestryworks said:


> Ain't got it yet. Did the dog get the mailman? :msp_biggrin:


 
I'll try it again.


----------



## Gologit

Metals406 said:


> Bob's old school. . . He was using smoke signals.


 
Nah...I'm pre-fire. I was banging rocks together. :msp_wink:


----------



## RandyMac

*Visited Humboldt County*

I brought home an old logging saw, the thing sings tales of old growth timber. The story goes like this. It was used on the Larabee for one season back in '73 and hung in a barn until last month. It looks the part, 48" Cannon roller, Redwood spikes, heavy sawchain and enough wear to show it did it's job. Some one with really good hands used it, very little breakage, not chewed up. I had an attrition rate, I would like to think it was moderate and maybe not. No need to get into that now.
The thing is on a rug in front of my fake fireplace, sitting with a ten degree list caused by the spikes, kinda looks like its going down by the stern. The little black and tan growled at it. 
Anyway, It's a Homelite 2100S, I bought it mostly for the bar, now I'm not sure I can part with it. If the weather allows, I'll sneak into the state park and take some pictures.

We had a heavy drizzle day, with varying degrees of saturation.
I'm sure the banana slugs loved it.


----------



## Joe46

Sounds neat Randy. If your spring down there has been anything like ours, a drizzle would be welcome compared to the rain we've been getting!


----------



## 056 kid

hammerlogging said:


> Buena Vista, VA, pronounced "Bewna"-- correct me if I'm wrong Kid
> 
> and my favorite yet, Versailles, KY, pronounced phonetically, not Frenchish


 
Close, locals say,"Beeuna" Vista, but it is "Bwaena" Vista Its funny you mention Buena Vista because I razz everyone I meet that says it wrong. Everybody said I was dumb, until I finally got my bosses wife to credit my way, the correct way of saying it. All it is is spanish, meaning good or pleasant view.. Small town about like La Grande, been through there a million times on the way to and coming from work.


----------



## RandyMac

056 kid said:


> You know Randy, I don't even know, too busy surveying!
> this will make it clearer for you I bet.
> 
> That sign was right by the pickup in the previous photos.


----------



## mdavlee

Nice pictures randymac. Now all we need is a video of that saw in one of those trees.


----------



## paccity

randy. anybody eyeballin ya wanderin around with that saw.:msp_rolleyes:


----------



## RandyMac

paccity said:


> randy. anybody eyeballin ya wanderin around with that saw.:msp_rolleyes:


 
yep, got caught it at.


----------



## madhatte

Thassalotta Homey, Homie.


----------



## nw axe man

RandyMac said:


>


Oh, Yeah! That's what I'm talking about! Nice saw. I'll have to take some pics of some that I have hanging up in my shop and post them. That's a dandy for sure. Nice score!


----------



## 056 kid

RandyMac said:


>


 
Nice, we will have to meet up one day Oldtimer.


----------



## Gologit

Nice find. You run it, I'll watch. Makes my right shoulder and elbow ache just looking at it. 

Did it come out of the Mattole country?


----------



## RandyMac

Bob, it came from Larabee Creek, just east of Redcrest. Its no Yeagar Creek, but I think there were a few trees there.


----------



## lfnh

What are the cutters (#) on that sawchain ?


----------



## bitzer

Is that saw leaning on the tree or the tree leaning on it? 

Like a couple of life-long enemies meeting up at the end.


----------



## Greenwedge

*A video I took today with my phone*

[video]http://youtu.be/4gsyRQeHHZY[/video] Here is a vid I took today with my phone. These old boys of this caliber are what its all about. This old card is 65 years old and still puts a hell of a pile of wood on the ground. I always listen and keep my trap shut when a feller like this has got something to say about cutting.


----------



## paccity

that was cool as hell. thanks for sharin.


----------



## forestryworks

Greenwedge said:


> [video]http://youtu.be/4gsyRQeHHZY[/video] Here is a vid I took today with my phone. These old boys of this caliber are what its all about. This old card is 65 years old and still puts a hell of a pile of wood on the ground. I always listen and keep my trap shut when a feller like this has got something to say about cutting.


 
Badass, thanks for sharing. 

My chain cuts like doo doo after watching that guy.


----------



## wowzers

Nice cutting.

Greenwedge is the ground pretty dry in your parts?


----------



## slowp

I missed the hat tilt maneuver. Did you edit it out?


----------



## mdavlee

Here's a burvol sighting. Said he's cutting SW of slowps area.


----------



## Cedarkerf

mdavlee said:


> Here's a burvol sighting. Said he's cutting SW of slowps area.


Thats a nice size Cedar there with the classic sword fern


----------



## forestryworks

Nice cedar


----------



## forestryworks




----------



## Metals406

forestryworks said:


>


 
Damn shame that they're shutting it down.


----------



## Rounder

Greenwedge said:


> [video]http://youtu.be/4gsyRQeHHZY[/video] Here is a vid I took today with my phone. These old boys of this caliber are what its all about. This old card is 65 years old and still puts a hell of a pile of wood on the ground. I always listen and keep my trap shut when a feller like this has got something to say about cutting.


 
Topside of the old bar works just fine don't it?.......... If you're sharp...................Not much wasted movement there............
-Good stuff - Sam


----------



## Gologit

Greenwedge said:


> [video]http://youtu.be/4gsyRQeHHZY[/video] Here is a vid I took today with my phone. These old boys of this caliber are what its all about. This old card is 65 years old and still puts a hell of a pile of wood on the ground. I always listen and keep my trap shut when a feller like this has got something to say about cutting.


 
Yup...the good ones always make it look easy.


----------



## forestryworks

Here's a few from last week. 

Got shut down before I could go back (Monday the 16th) and finish my strip.


----------



## Gologit

forestryworks said:


> Here's a few from last week.
> 
> Got shut down before I could go back (Monday the 16th) and finish my strip.


 
I hope it's just the camera angle that's making that bar look so close to your left leg.


----------



## paccity

looks like the angle, good eye on that . don't want to get bit.


----------



## forestryworks

I didn't see that in the picture until you mentioned it Bob.

I do remember though I had quit cutting before I pulled the saw out.

Will be more careful.


----------



## Gologit

forestryworks said:


> I didn't see that in the picture until you mentioned it Bob.
> 
> I do remember though I had quit cutting before I pulled the saw out.
> 
> Will be more careful.


 
No problem. We just don't want to see you earn the nick-name "Stumpy".

A while back I watched a video somebody took of _me_ while I was cutting. Scared me to death. I was doing some goofy, careless stuff that I hadn't even been aware of. It sure showed up on the video.

A guy tends to get complacent after he cuts for any length of time and nothing bad happens. Being self confident with your work is important, in fact it's essential. But complacency will kill you quick.

You're doing fine. Hang in there.


----------



## dancan

Gologit said:


> A guy tends to get complacent after he cuts for any length of time and nothing bad happens. Being self confident with your work is important, in fact it's essential. But complacency will kill kill you quick.


 
Words to live by and it applies to many fields . 
Take the time to read a few WCB accidents reports in you field of choice and see how it relates to you and your work practices and try to remember them .


----------



## madhatte

dancan said:


> Take the time to read a few WCB accidents reports in you field of choice and see how it relates to you and your work practices and try to remember them .



Absolutely. If we can learn from others' mistakes, we may not have to make them ourselves.


----------



## stihl sawing

I'm not a pro by no means, Just a firewood cutter. But i hope you guys don't mind if i post this here. If so i will remove it. 

A friend of mine wanted this dead Ponderosa pine cut down. He wanted it cut in eight foot sections. He's gonna mill something with it. It had a bad lean toward his house, so i put my winch on it for extra pull. 

I notched it to fall where i wanted it too and it did. I have a bunch of pics to load of it. So anything you guys see in the pics that might help me get better, Please let me know. I can take the critizisem too.lol So let me have it.

I did cut the stump flush to the ground for him. Guess i should have cut the tree closer to the ground too.


----------



## stihl sawing

Here it is delimbed






The 036






Buckin it up in eight foot sections. There were five of them and probably thirty more feet he didn't want.


----------



## stihl sawing

Here it is bucked up and finished







Also cut a few chunks off a blowed over Hackberry while i was there.


----------



## forestryworks

You done a good job there.

That don't look like any ponderosa I've ever seen.


----------



## stihl sawing

forestryworks said:


> You done a good job there.
> 
> That don't look like any ponderosa I've ever seen.


Thanks, It may not be a ponderosa, That's what he called it.


----------



## ropensaddle

stihl sawing said:


> Thanks, It may not be a ponderosa, That's what he called it.


 
Ok ss now you got the felling down time to ride the wraptor


----------



## stihl sawing

ropensaddle said:


> Ok ss now you got the felling down time to ride the wraptor


Oh No, You know i ain't climbin.lol Even if it pulls me up. That's a nice rig ya got though. You gonna demonstrate it at the next GTG?


----------



## hammerlogging

white pine. confirmed dead.

Looks like a wicked uniintentional bypass on your horizontal cut of your face. Make your horizontal and angled face cuts meet or else its just the kerf that is your face.

Great you had a chance to practice. And are willing to learn.


----------



## stihl sawing

hammerlogging said:


> white pine. confirmed dead.
> 
> Looks like a wicked uniintentional bypass on your horizontal cut of your face. Make your horizontal and angled face cuts meet or else its just the kerf that is your face.
> 
> Great you had a chance to practice. And are willing to learn.


Yeah, I noticed i was off on the notch some, I wanted it facing a little farther left. So i cut some more off. I do need to work on making the cuts meet. Thanks for the advice. I want to do it right, I've been cutting many years but don't mean i do it correct. Also i don't get the chance to cut a big tree every day for practice. Most of the stuff i have cut lately is already blown down by storms.


----------



## paccity

stihl sawing said:


> I'm not a pro by no means, Just a firewood cutter. But i hope you guys don't mind if i post this here. If so i will remove it.
> 
> A friend of mine wanted this dead Ponderosa pine cut down. He wanted it cut in eight foot sections. He's gonna mill something with it. It had a bad lean toward his house, so i put my winch on it for extra pull.
> 
> I notched it to fall where i wanted it too and it did. I have a bunch of pics to load of it. So anything you guys see in the pics that might help me get better, Please let me know. I can take the critizisem too.lol So let me have it.
> 
> I did cut the stump flush to the ground for him. Guess i should have cut the tree closer to the ground too.


 
there are no pro's here. just some are whole alot better at it than others. practice makes better.


----------



## madhatte

Dead white pine, beetle galleries and pitch tubes, blue stain. You know I'm curious. What killed it? I don't see the cankers on any of the branches suggesting Blister Rust, so was it just girdled by the beetle attack? Oh snap, I guess I'm a tree nerd.


----------



## paccity

madhatte said:


> Dead white pine, beetle galleries and pitch tubes, blue stain. You know I'm curious. What killed it? I don't see the cankers on any of the branches suggesting Blister Rust, so was it just girdled by the beetle attack? Oh snap, I guess I'm a tree nerd.


 
ha, you got know about what ur killin.:msp_biggrin:


----------



## stihl sawing

madhatte said:


> Dead white pine, beetle galleries and pitch tubes, blue stain. You know I'm curious. What killed it? I don't see the cankers on any of the branches suggesting Blister Rust, so was it just girdled by the beetle attack? Oh snap, I guess I'm a tree nerd.


He said it was hit by lightening, It did look kinda blowed out a little at the base. One reason i cut it high. I was afraid it might be busted up or hollow down there.


----------



## Gologit

madhatte said:


> Dead white pine, beetle galleries and pitch tubes, blue stain. You know I'm curious. What killed it? I don't see the cankers on any of the branches suggesting Blister Rust, so was it just girdled by the beetle attack? Oh snap, I guess I'm a tree nerd.


 
Tree pathologist? Oh great, I just invented another form of 'ologist.:taped:


----------



## madhatte

I did notice the catface, but it seems to have healed up nicely. I'm pretty sure the lightning didn't do it in.


----------



## madhatte

Gologit said:


> Tree pathologist? Oh great, I just invented another form of 'ologist.:taped:



I'm not the only one. Hell, I'm just a baby. I have my go-to guys who know WAY more than I do. I love it when I get in over my head and have to call for help... that way I KNOW I'm gonna learn something!

EDIT: also -- was out with the crew training on a new protocol today, and while demonstrating field ID of one disease, found a clump of trees which all had three! Trees are full of surprises.


----------



## stihl sawing

madhatte said:


> I did notice the catface, but it seems to have healed up nicely. I'm pretty sure the lightning didn't do it in.


It also had beetle holes in the bark, They may have done it.


----------



## madhatte

stihl sawing said:


> It also had beetle holes in the bark, They may have done it.


 
The blue stain and the galleries suggest that this is the case. I'd also look for pitch-out; the top of it should indicate about where the tree was girdled.


----------



## Metals406

I'll post a picture of some Pondies on my place tomorrow so you can see the difference SS.

I was gonna guess Southern White Pine, but it looks like Hammer beat me to it.






Looks like you got a good workout and made it home safe.


----------



## slowp

White pine usually has 5 delicate looking needles in a bunch. If you look up, they'll look on the fine side. P-pine will have 3, longer heavier needles in a bunch. 

White pine will have longer, finer cones. P-pine has round, sturdy cones that really hurt if you get hit by them when playing PC Baseball or having a cone fight.


----------



## madhatte

PC Baseball sounds a lot like Rock Baseball. 

Rules go like so: you get out near the end of a landing, where the big crushed rock is pretty well-exposed. Batter faces the valley, pitcher faces uphill. Pitcher picks up a rock from the landing and talks some smack on the batter, who answers back in kind. Generally rocks bigger than actual baseballs are frowned upon; larger rocks have been known to significantly shorten the lifetime of a bat. 

Pitcher pitches. Batter swings. A "strike" most often results in the gathered crowd shouting obscenities at the batter. A "ball" usually results in an injured batter. 

A hit is graded according to loft. A rock which spins immediately off the road into a slash pile gets a sort of "ehh" response. A rock which arcs gracefully into the air and follows the topology cleanly enough that it crashes almost inaudibly to the bottom of the valley 30 seconds later will get a respectful "whoah". 

Game ends when 
a) there aren't any more bats left OR
b) there aren't any more rocks left OR
c) there aren't any more players left OR 
d) there aren't any more beers left. 

The winner is generally whoever does the coolest hit, or whoever lucks out and gets th last beer. Your mileage may vary.


----------



## slowp

Sounds similar except that we were on the job so no beers. We'd play if we finished a unit and there wasn't time to go to another one.
We didn't dare show back at the office early. I think somebody got hit on the eye. They had the sense not to turn in an accident report!

White pine cones would be more suitable for a cone football game. If there is such a game.


----------



## madhatte

Ding! Roving gypsy contractor nomads killin' time at the end of a hard day squintin' through a clino blowin' off some "gas is expensive!" steam!


----------



## Metals406

slowp said:


> White pine usually has 5 delicate looking needles in a bunch. If you look up, they'll look on the fine side. P-pine will have 3, longer heavier needles in a bunch.
> 
> White pine will have longer, finer cones. P-pine has round, sturdy cones that really hurt if you get hit by them when playing PC Baseball or having a cone fight.


 
Pondie cones make the best projectile weapons!! LOL

Pinecone fights bring back a lot of memories. . . A guys got to be careful that you don't get bit just grabbing one -- the wound stings forever.


----------



## stihl sawing

LOL, We used to have cone fights as kids, I don't know much about pine trees as most of the wood i cut is hardwood but i think most our trees are long leaf pines.:msp_confused:Their cones are not big and are lightweight when they fall. Now when they are green is when you can hurt someone with them.lol


----------



## forestryworks

stihl sawing said:


> LOL, We used to have cone fights as kids, I don't know much about pine trees as most of the wood i cut is hardwood but i think most our trees are long leaf pines.:msp_confused:Their cones are not big and are lightweight when they fall. Now when they are green is when you can hurt someone with them.lol


 
Shortleaf Pine is probably what you see in Arkansas. You'll probably see lots of Loblolly pine as well.


----------



## stihl sawing

forestryworks said:


> Shortleaf Pine is king in Arkansas. I read somewhere Arkansas has the largest concentration of Shortleaf Pine in the U.S. Trying to find that article now.


Shows ya what i know.lol I knew it was either long or short. Thought it was the long though. I know which ever one it is, we have a lot of them. There is a lot of paper company land here that grow them. The lease we hunt on is owned by paper companys.


----------



## forestryworks

stihl sawing said:


> Shows ya what i know.lol I knew it was either long or short. Thought it was the long though. I know which ever one it is, we have a lot of them. There is a lot of paper company land here that grow them. The lease we hunt on is owned by paper companys.


 
Is it Georgia-Pacific? We have a lot of Weyerhaeuser ground here down in the Broken Bow area.


----------



## stihl sawing

forestryworks said:


> Is it Georgia-Pacific? We have a lot of Weyerhaeuser ground here down in the Broken Bow area.


It was mostly International Paper, They have sold a bunch of land off though. The land we hunt on is owned by Red Mountain Timber. They bought it from IP about five years ago. There is land here owned by Georgia Pacific too. Don't know about Weyerhaeuser.


----------



## Greenwedge

*Here is a vid of me cutting a Doug.*

This is the second time I posted this. I did not know that there were two of the same thread. lol


----------



## Greenwedge

Greenwedge said:


> This is the second time I posted this. I did not know that there were two of the same thread. lol


 
and the third time's a charm.....da ta da da daaaa....here is the link. YouTube - High Banking a Doug Fir


----------



## Metals406

Greenwedge said:


> This is the second time I posted this. I did not know that there were two of the same thread. lol


 
Ya forgot the video! But I got yur back. 

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/TqTKRuTufjc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


----------



## Greenwedge

Metals406 said:


> Ya forgot the video! But I got yur back.
> 
> <iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/TqTKRuTufjc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


 
I need to give you my CC info so I can get the handle bars. Will you inbox me you #


----------



## Metals406

Greenwedge said:


> and the third time's a charm.....da ta da da daaaa....here is the link. YouTube - High Banking a Doug Fir


 
Damn, you were quicker on the trigger than me.


----------



## Sport Faller

cool video, that saw sounds pretty healthy, one quick question tho, why bore the face?


----------



## Metals406

bigskyjake said:


> cool video, that saw sounds pretty healthy, one quick question tho, why bore the face?


 
It had a good lean. . . Boring the heart prevents barber-chair, or fiber pull. He also sniped the stump, which sent her flying into lay.


----------



## stihl sawing

That was a really sweet video Greenwedge. You make it look easy. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## Sport Faller

Metals406 said:


> It had a good lean. . . Boring the heart prevents barber-chair, or fiber pull. He also sniped the stump, which sent her flying into lay.


 
oh cool  , i had a big dougie that i should've done that with today, was leaning pretty good and pulled like a mofo


----------



## Metals406

bigskyjake said:


> oh cool  , i had a big dougie that i should've done that with today, was leaning pretty good and pulled like a mofo


 
And that was probably dead wood huh Jake? It's way worse when green. Watch yourself on them leaners, they can kill ya quick-like!!

So where's the video of this big old punkin' fir? Pics or it didn't happen. :msp_tongue:


----------



## Sport Faller

Metals406 said:


> And that was probably dead wood huh Jake? It's way worse when green. Watch yourself on them leaners, they can kill ya quick-like!!
> 
> So where's the video of this big old punkin' fir? Pics or it didn't happen. :msp_tongue:


 
The stump is so embarassing I almost cried (missed the intersection on the face coming up from the bottom real bad and had to hack-job the rest out and also the 2' mohawk that was left), I'm heading back up there Thursday and if I can knock one over that doesn't leave a completely crappy stump I'll get a pic or two


----------



## Metals406

bigskyjake said:


> The stump is so embarassing I almost cried (missed the intersection on the face coming up from the bottom real bad and had to hack-job the rest out and also the 2' mohawk that was left), I'm heading back up there Thursday and if I can knock one over that doesn't leave a completely crappy stump I'll get a pic or two


 
Grab some flagging tape from Big John's, Walmart, Montana Ace, or etc. Carry it with you, it has a lot of good uses. One of which is training yourself on your face and back-cut.

Before you start cutting, wrap the tree with tape (once around). Make sure it's level. Cut below the tape and use it as a guide for your cuts. This is just one trick of many. . . Give it a try.


----------



## Sport Faller

Metals406 said:


> Grab some flagging tape from Big John's, Walmart, Montana Ace, or etc. Carry it with you, it has a lot of good uses. One of which is training yourself on your face and back-cut.
> 
> Before you start cutting, wrap the tree with tape (once around). Make sure it's level. Cut below the tape and use it as a guide for your cuts. This is just one trick of many. . . Give it a try.


 
sweet, thanks man, I'm gonna give that a try on Thursday


----------



## Meadow Beaver

Greenwedge said:


> and the third time's a charm.....da ta da da daaaa....here is the link. YouTube - High Banking a Doug Fir


 
Didn't want to lug around the 880? lol


----------



## forestryworks

bigskyjake said:


> sweet, thanks man, I'm gonna give that a try on Thursday


 
you tryin to do a humboldt cut? practice, practice, practice. 

my first attempt at a humboldt looked like a 7r. old took a hatchet to the stump. ended up losing the tree to the offside lol.

thank god the fire burned that stump down. Jeez!


----------



## forestryworks

Greenwedge said:


> and the third time's a charm.....da ta da da daaaa....here is the link. YouTube - High Banking a Doug Fir


 
How many years you been cuttin' now, Pat?


----------



## Sport Faller

forestryworks said:


> you tryin to do a humboldt cut? practice, practice, practice.
> 
> my first attempt at a humboldt looked like a 7r. old took a hatchet to the stump. ended up losing the tree to the offside lol.
> 
> thank god the fire burned that stump down. Jeez!


 
yeah, getting the intersection to hit just right on the offside is a B, this one somehow went where I wanted it to (fell it into one that was leaning very heavily and they both came down which may or may not techically be my first domino fall) but it was sketchy as hell


----------



## Metals406

bigskyjake said:


> yeah, getting the intersection to hit just right on the offside is a B, this one somehow went where I wanted it to (fell it into one that was leaning very heavily and they both came down which may or may not techically be my first domino fall) but it was sketchy as hell


 
Don't get hurt! Your wife'll get pissed! :msp_razz:


----------



## forestryworks

bigskyjake said:


> yeah, getting the intersection to hit just right on the offside is a B, this one somehow went where I wanted it to (fell it into one that was leaning very heavily and they both came down which may or may not techically be my first domino fall) but it was sketchy as hell


 
the main thing to remember on your face cuts, is if they don't match up, don't keep cutting or you will change the gun and the depth of your face, giving you an unintended effect that you may not be aware of. 

always use your sights. sight in when doing your gun cut (top cut), pick a spot out into the lay to remember, then as you're doing the diagonal, watch your sights again, stop cutting when the sights line up to what you gunned on your top cut.

if they don't meet, take an axe and pop it out and then inspect and see if you can cut more or make any adjustments.

always carry an axe and not some sissy hammer.


----------



## Greenwedge

Meadow Beaver said:


> Didn't want to lug around the 880? lol


 
I smashed it about 2 weeks ago.


----------



## Greenwedge

forestryworks said:


> How many years you been cuttin' now, Pat?


 
Off on on for 18 yrs. More on than off.


----------



## forestryworks

Pat, how many years have you been falling timber now?


----------



## Metals406

Greenwedge said:


> I smashed it about 2 weeks ago.


 
That blows! Anything salvageable?


----------



## Greenwedge

forestryworks said:


> Pat, how many years have you been falling timber now?


 
My dad broke me in when I was 18 and I'm 38 now so that would make it ...........20....subtract a year for I just turned 38 so now we are at 19, subtract a couple more years due to beer drinking chasing women raising hell and bad decisions. Now we are at 17....Hell, we better subtract seven more years cause 17 years experience makes me seem to damn old and no one will believe it anyway due youthful, and let's not forget handsome appearance, so I guess we'll call er square at 10. No....wait a minute, I was closer to 19 when the old man started teaching me the ways of the busheler so that leaves us a 9!


----------



## Greenwedge

Metals406 said:


> That blows! Anything salvageable?


 Yeah....I just need to get to piece'n er back together.


----------



## Sport Faller

Metals406 said:


> Don't get hurt! Your wife'll get pissed! :msp_razz:


 
I try to be safe and wear PPE (she made me promise to wear chaps and a hard hat), I just need me some practice


----------



## forestryworks

Damn I just realized I posted the same question twice. :monkey:

I gotta get outta this borehole of a town lol.


----------



## Sport Faller

forestryworks said:


> the main thing to remember on your face cuts, is if they don't match up, don't keep cutting or you will change the gun and the depth of your face, giving you an unintended effect that you may not be aware of.
> 
> always use your sights. sight in when doing your gun cut (top cut), pick a spot out into the lay to remember, then as you're doing the diagonal, watch your sights again, stop cutting when the sights line up to what you gunned on your top cut.
> 
> if they don't meet, take an axe and pop it out and then inspect and see if you can cut more or make any adjustments.
> 
> *always carry an axe and not some sissy hammer*.


 

I really appreciate you and Nate and everybody else here helping me not get squashed 


You caught me red handed with the sissy hammer (cellphone for scale)


----------



## Metals406

Greenwedge said:


> Yeah....I just need to get to piece'n er back together.


 
Part out Cody's 88! :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## madhatte

Metals406 said:


> Before you start cutting, wrap the tree with tape (once around). Make sure it's level. Cut below the tape and use it as a guide for your cuts. This is just one trick of many. . . Give it a try.



I love simple, effective training aids like that. Think I'll use it the next time we're running an S-212 class and somebody's afraid of the saw. The lines we cut are imaginary until we commit chain to wood... this makes the lines slightly less imaginary, and helps visualize them in advance. 

Greenwedge: hot DAMN that chain's hungry! Don't s'pose you'd share angles and such with us, the Less Worthy?


----------



## Greenwedge

forestryworks said:


> Damn I just realized I posted the same question twice. :monkey:
> 
> I gotta get outta this borehole of a town lol.


 
Don't worry about it pard. Chainsaws vibrate brain cells to sleep.
Don't worry about it pard. Chainsaws vibrate brain cells to sleep.
Don't worry about it pard. Chainsaws vibrate brain cells to sleep.
Don't worry about it pard. Chainsaws vibrate brain cells to sleep.
Don't worry about it pard. Chainsaws vibrate brain cells to sleep.
Don't worry about it pard. Chainsaws vibrate brain cells to sleep.
Don't worry about it pard. Chainsaws vibrate brain cells to sleep.
Don't worry about it pard. Chainsaws vibrate brain cells to sleep.
Don't worry about it pard. Chainsaws vibrate brain cells to sleep.


----------



## Spotted Owl

bigskyjake said:


>



What the heck is that thing? Holy smokes if I showed up with somethin like that bull would make me sit in the truck as not to embarrass him. 

Just poke'n ya.

Get one and you'll be surprised how often you use a 5 pounder. Only down fall is that a new 5 with a good wedge head is gonna set ya back about 60+ bucks right now. Just got one for the boy and it rang up right at 70 with shipping. Nothing good close to home, so we call Madsens.

Nother tip you may already know about. Use your sights like said before the use your tapes to check you sighting. Push the nail in each side of your face tight in the corners just between the wood and bark, then hold them at the same foot mark on top of each other. sight down that triangle and that's right close to where the lay is gonna be. if the tapes and your gunning match up good on ya, if not it will show which way you lean when you cut and you can compensate from then on. In big stuff I keep a string with nails in my bag tied up and ready to sight in with. I have trouble gunning accurate in big wood so I use my strings a bit more than I probably should need to, but it works for me.



Owl


----------



## Meadow Beaver

Greenwedge said:


> I smashed it about 2 weeks ago.


 
Dang that sucks, what happened? Is the tank still good?


----------



## paccity

forestryworks said:


> Damn I just realized I posted the same question twice. :monkey:
> 
> I gotta get outta this borehole of a town lol.


 
go west young man.:wink2:


----------



## slowp

Greenwedge said:


> My dad broke me in when I was 18 and I'm 38 now so that would make it ...........20....subtract a year for I just turned 38 so now we are at 19, subtract a couple more years due to beer drinking chasing women raising hell and bad decisions. Now we are at 17....Hell, we better subtract seven more years cause 17 years experience makes me seem to damn old and no one will believe it anyway due youthful, and let's not forget handsome appearance, so I guess we'll call er square at 10. No....wait a minute, I was closer to 19 when the old man started teaching me the ways of the busheler so that leaves us a 9!



And 9 is 3 squared, then throw in leap years, the answer is always 6.
(I tried to be an engineer for a few long years).

When the 'ologists would ask how many truck loads a day would come down a road from a unit that had not even been looked at on the ground, not to mentione cruised, I'd tell them Six. That would make them happy and they would go away without using big words to confuse my brain. 

OK, back to falling talk.


----------



## forestryworks

paccity said:


> go west young man.:wink2:


 
Working on it!


----------



## Greenwedge

*Low Banking*

Here are a couple from today. I will be glad when the low banking is done on this job. Swinging the hammer is getting old!


----------



## Greenwedge

Greenwedge said:


> Here are a couple from today. I will be glad when the low banking is done on this job. Swinging the hammer is getting old!


 
Maybe I can figure this out.......on second thought I better get my wife over here.


----------



## Greenwedge

Maybe this time it worked.


----------



## Greenwedge

bigskyjake said:


> I really appreciate you and Nate and everybody else here helping me not get squashed
> 
> 
> You caught me red handed with the sissy hammer (cellphone for scale)


Did you buy this thing from a hobbit? I honestly have never seen or heard of anything like it being implemented to drive wedges! There are some things a man should keep to himself and this is one of those things! LOL You are brave and honest....you will do just fine. Still laughing at your Prias of an axe


----------



## 056 kid

paccity said:


> go west young man.:wink2:


 
What happens if you are there already??

I cant get #### goin. . . . .


----------



## 056 kid

Greenwedge said:


> Maybe this time it worked.


 
Whats up with the funny angle on that sizwheel? Looks like you cut a lot of fibers that could have held things in place. Unless the fiber was growing in a slanted manner. Do you understand what I am asking?


----------



## Metals406

Greenwedge said:


> Maybe this time it worked.


 
That's one heck of a siswheel in that tree. . . Ya damn near milled it on the stump!! :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Greenwedge

056 kid said:


> Whats up with the funny angle on that sizwheel? Looks like you cut a lot of fibers that could have held things in place. Unless the fiber was growing in a slanted manner. Do you understand what I am asking?


 
It has a funny angle because thats the way the grain layed. If you dont go with the grain they don't work, in fact they make things worse.


----------



## Metals406

Greenwedge said:


> It has a funny angle because thats the way the grain layed. If you dont go with the grain they don't work, in fact they make things worse.


 
Did you cut all your far-side holdwood too?


----------



## 056 kid

Greenwedge said:


> It has a funny angle because thats the way the grain layed. If you dont go with the grain they don't work, in fact they make things worse.


 
#### yea!!!! Thats why I ask! 

Do her wrong & you might as well just do the face kirf and back kirf thing, let her fall where she wants. .


----------



## 056 kid

Metals406 said:


> Did you cut all your far-side holdwood too?


 
Hell, what would be the point if you didn't?


----------



## bitzer

Hey Pat great video! You build a mean saw. Great pics too man! Did you also cut in behind the hinge on that sizwheel stump? Looks like sumthin there. You may have given me an idea. Seems like there could be more movement that way.


----------



## forestryworks

Jesus christ that's gotta be the biggest damn air filter or air filter cover, or whatever the hell that is, that I've ever seen. You could cook stew meat in that thing.


----------



## 056 kid

I think he picked up a generic filter form D&B or something.

I have one just like it, it's a good filter. .


----------



## Greenwedge

Metals406 said:


> Did you cut all your far-side holdwood too?


 Yes I did Nate. The only wood that's left on er' is the 6" of sizwell to my back bore.....you can see the line in the pic.


----------



## Greenwedge

forestryworks said:


> Jesus christ that's gotta be the biggest damn air filter or air filter cover, or whatever the hell that is, that I've ever seen. You could cook stew meat in that thing.


 
It's an ugly affair isn't it? I like to run those Uni Foam filters, but they don't like rain and brush so the big white thing is a rain/brush guard/stew pot. lol


----------



## Greenwedge

bitzer said:


> Hey Pat great video! You build a mean saw. Great pics too man! Did you also cut in behind the hinge on that sizwheel stump? Looks like sumthin there. You may have given me an idea. Seems like there could be more movement that way.


 
Yes I did. It relieves the hinge quite a bit. An old busheler named Bob Nill showed me that.


----------



## bitzer

Greenwedge said:


> Yes I did. It relieves the hinge quite a bit. An old busheler named Bob Nill showed me that.


 
That makes a lot of sense. I'll bet it has some nice fluid movement that way. Just watched Doug and Tammy. Another nice video. I just can't get enough of killing trees. Thanks.


----------



## John Ellison

Hello Greenwedge. I worked with a Bob Nill in Alaska. If you are around him ask him if he worked up there. May be the same one I knew.


----------



## hammerlogging

Greenwedge said:


> Yes I did. It relieves the hinge quite a bit. An old busheler named Bob Nill showed me that.


 
I'll have to try that, I saw the cut too.


----------



## hammerlogging

couple crappy cell phone pics
View attachment 184507

View attachment 184508

View attachment 184509


laying out the next unit I found paleo-chair stump, real classic baberchair from maybe 30-40 or more years ago- post chainsaw invention though, it was powerssaw cut, I'll be sure to get a picture of it.


----------



## forestryworks

hammerlogging said:


> couple crappy cell phone pics
> View attachment 184507
> 
> View attachment 184508
> 
> View attachment 184509


 
Nice.


----------



## Greenwedge

John Ellison said:


> Hello Greenwedge. I worked with a Bob Nill in Alaska. If you are around him ask him if he worked up there. May be the same one I knew.


 
I'm sure it's the same one. That's were I worked with him also. Short guy, smokes camel straights, runs Husqvarna's, Drives Chevy's, and claims to be in the top ten of the top ten percent. LOL. There can't be two of him! He lives here in my home town now, and I never see him. I saw more of him when I was tramp logging.


----------



## Sport Faller

here's my crapola stump from this morning, face came out nicely but shoulda bored into the face (like we talked about here 2 days ago) as it had some decent lean, it probably would've been a better stump if it didn't take off like an F-18 before i finished my back cut







came out of the woods pretty good and in one peice, hooked to the snaggin wagon


----------



## Samlock

bigskyjake said:


> here's my crapola stump from this morning, face came out nicely but shoulda bored into the face (like we talked about here 2 days ago) as it had some decent lean, it probably would've been a better stump if it didn't take off like an F-18 before i finished my back cut



Always good thing to take off as soon as it goes. you can't really chance anything while it's already moving.

And now you've got a new ax too.


----------



## Sport Faller

yep, as soon is it starts poppin and droppin i'm audi 5000, the sis hammer is cooling out in the shed


----------



## bitzer

Hey nice pics Joe!

I don't want to drag the thread too far back, but I just wanted to show some pics of White Pine blister rust because it came up earlier.

I'm working on four different things on an 80 acre reforestation plot. There are white pine, red spruce, and black cherry planted in alternating rows. The first problem being the rust, second- some beetle kill, third- tent caterpillers, and fourth- boxelder removal. Here are some pics of the rust and some early beetle shots. I'm going through about 5-6k of white pine trimming the bottom two layers of branches in hopes of getting some air flow. The fungus likes moist stagnant air. The other three problems I take care of as I go. This is hell on the knees. I am getting paid by the hour though and the weather has been decent. 

These are the butts of two 15 footers. Without getting right under the tree there was no way of knowing it was this bad. From a distance they looked perfectly healthy.





Blister on a branch with some pustules.





Girdiling of the main stem.





Some beetles in action. There is some beetle kill and some in action. I'm not even sure what kind they are yet. They are black and about 1mm. 






View attachment 184612
View attachment 184613
View attachment 184614
View attachment 184615


----------



## hammerlogging

bitzer said:


> Hey nice pics Joe!



I just noticed you can see my bud facing his next tree in the third pic. I do 95% of the falling but he stepped in to help for a few hours that day.


----------



## Greenwedge

*Green wedging*

Here is a cell phone flick I took of a drive. I was low banking, and in this particular area all of the timber leaned away from the road something fierce[video]http://youtu.be/ci70i14AazI[/video]!


----------



## RandyMac

That was good and noisy.
Look like some old blowdowns on the ground.


----------



## Metals406

Greenwedge said:


> Here is a cell phone flick I took of a drive. I was low banking, and in this particular area all of the timber leaned away from the road something fierce[video]http://youtu.be/ci70i14AazI[/video]!


 
Bleck, downhill yarding.

Looks like a decent patch to be in though!!


----------



## Greenwedge

*If any of you are interested in my ms 660 here is the link.*

Stihl MS 660 Chainsaw | eBay


----------



## Metals406

Greenwedge said:


> Stihl MS 660 Chainsaw | eBay


 
One dollar wasn't enough. . . So I got the ball rolling.


----------



## Metals406

Pat, the first video link in your description is set to "private", thus potential buyers won't be able to view it.


----------



## Greenwedge

Here is the right link Nate. YouTube - ‪Stihl ms 660 for sale‬&rlm;


----------



## Metals406

Greenwedge said:


> Here is the right link Nate. YouTube - ‪Stihl ms 660 for sale‬&rlm;


 
Very nice (minus the sound ). . . That shipping must be figured from Kodiak eh?

How come you're thinning the herd? Ya got too many saws or somthin'?


----------



## Samlock

Greenwedge said:


> Here is a cell phone flick I took of a drive. I was low banking, and in this particular area all of the timber leaned away from the road something fierce [video]http://youtube/ci70i14AazI[/video]!



Good old domino effect. Nice! Not so nice bucking it, but the sound!


----------



## Sport Faller

Todays stump was quite a bit better than Thursday's stink pickle stump, little bit of a mohawk but not too crappy


----------



## Metals406

bigskyjake said:


> Todays stump was quite a bit better than Thursday's stink pickle stump, little bit of a mohawk but not too crappy


 
See how the pulled wood is on the backside of the hinge? When the tree commits, buzz them real quick with the saw before you beat-feat. The hold-wood is tension on the back and compression on the front. Be sure not to over-cut your hinge, or be on the compression side of the hinge when the tree is setting down on the way over. It can grab your saw and take it for a ride.


----------



## madhatte

I'd rather see a bit of a mohawk than not. Means the hinge worked. DF is pretty forgiving that way, some other species are not. If you wanna chase the hinge to keep things neat, go for it, but wait for the stem to be truly committed to a lay before severing the hingewood. When I look at a unit after a cut, I look to see that there's some pull on the stumps. No pull in the entire unit means either superhuman falling skills (which I will admit some folks do have) or sloppy habits regarding hingewood and safety. I imagine that if I worked in higher-elevation stuff like Noble fir or more coastal stuff like Sitka spruce, both of which are a bit more brittle, my standards would be a bit different.


----------



## Metals406

madhatte said:


> I'd rather see a bit of a mohawk than not. Means the hinge worked. DF is pretty forgiving that way, some other species are not. If you wanna chase the hinge to keep things neat, go for it, but wait for the stem to be truly committed to a lay before severing the hingewood. When I look at a unit after a cut, I look to see that there's some pull on the stumps. No pull in the entire unit means either superhuman falling skills (which I will admit some folks do have) or sloppy habits regarding hingewood and safety. I imagine that if I worked in higher-elevation stuff like Noble fir or more coastal stuff like Sitka spruce, both of which are a bit more brittle, my standards would be a bit different.


 
I know what ya mean Nathan. . . I'm going to go out in the twigs with Jake and show him what I'm saying. He's cutting for firewood and not for scale -- but I'm just not a fan of fiber pull.

From the looks of his hinge, he's seeing gap in the cut and get'n out'a dodge. I know each tree is different, but a guy can camp out a lot of times and do a little follow-through on the back.

Overall, Jake's stump looks pretty dang good!


----------



## Sport Faller

Metals406 said:


> I know what ya mean Nathan. . . *I'm going to go out in the twigs with Jake and show him what I'm saying.* He's cutting for firewood and not for scale -- but I'm just not a fan of fiber pull.
> 
> From the looks of his hinge, he's seeing gap in the cut and get'n out'a dodge. I know each tree is different, but a guy can camp out a lot of times and do a little follow-through on the back.
> 
> Overall, Jake's stump looks pretty dang good!


 
Oh Hell yeah, that's what I'm talking bout , we should go out later this week or weekend, my spot is on the way past your neck of the woods too


----------



## forestryworks

Metals406 said:


> I know what ya mean Nathan. . . I'm going to go out in the twigs with Jake and show him what I'm saying. He's cutting for firewood and not for scale -- but I'm just not a fan of fiber pull.
> 
> From the looks of his hinge, he's seeing gap in the cut and get'n out'a dodge. I know each tree is different, but a guy can camp out a lot of times and do a little follow-through on the back.
> 
> Overall, Jake's stump looks pretty dang good!


 


bigskyjake said:


> Oh Hell yeah, that's what I'm talking bout , we should go out later this week or weekend, my spot is on the way past your neck of the woods too


 
By god I wanna play.


----------



## Sport Faller

forestryworks said:


> By god I wanna play.


 
If you get up this way we'll hijack an old cable skidder, let the line out with a pair of tongs on it, drive up to Whitefish, and go trolling for hippies


----------



## Metals406

forestryworks said:


> By god I wanna play.


 
Good. . . Pat called me back and it sounds like you can go to work.


----------



## Metals406

bigskyjake said:


> If you get up this way we'll hijack an old cable skidder, let the line out with a pair of tongs on it, drive up to Whitefish, and go trolling for hippies


 
Can I get this on a shirt??!! :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## madhatte

Metals406 said:


> I'm going to go out in the twigs with Jake and show him what I'm saying. He's cutting for firewood and not for scale -- but I'm just not a fan of fiber pull.



There you go. Hands-on instruction is better than any amount of internettin' any time.


----------



## RandyMac

Chasin' the hinge.


----------



## Greenwedge

RandyMac said:


> Chasin' the hinge.


 
You have the "Chuck Norris goes to the Disco look!"


----------



## Greenwedge

Greenwedge said:


> You have the "Chuck Norris goes to the Disco look!"


 Good Lord Randy....I sure hope that is a peice of saw dust on your ear lobe! lol


----------



## Metals406

Greenwedge said:


> Good Lord Randy....I sure hope that is a peice of saw dust on your ear lobe! lol


 
That's his bling yo!


----------



## Sport Faller

If I'm not mistaken I see what may very well be a dangly cross or something hanging off that earring, Randy's like a timber fallin pirate


----------



## RandyMac

ARRR!!!






Jake, go a bit deeper and steeper on your undercuts.


Had to be chips, the only bling is a tattoo.


----------



## Sport Faller

RandyMac said:


> ARRR!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jake, go a bit deeper and steeper on your undercuts.
> 
> 
> Had to be chips, the only bling is a tattoo.


 
Aye Aye, Cap'n, will do

same here, no earrings just a lil bit of ink


----------



## RandyMac

bigskyjake said:


> Aye Aye, Cap'n, will do
> 
> same here, no earrings just a lil bit of ink


 
I have the sign of my Clan.

When you a head leaner, go halfway in, that will help bend the fiber and it won't pull as much. Cutting steeper helps that as well.


----------



## Sport Faller

RandyMac said:


> I have the sign of my Clan.
> 
> When you a head leaner, go halfway in, that will help bend the fiber and it won't pull as much. Cutting steeper helps that as well.


 
I have an F.A.L. on my forearm

I genuinely appreciate the tips man, thanks


----------



## Gologit

*Hey Jake*

Try this for heavy head leaners. I've used the triangle cut fairly often and it seems to work out pretty good. I tend to cut a little deeper face than shown in the picture, depending on the amount of lean, but that's just me.

It's called the Coos Bay cut...many thanks to Gas71 for the diagram.


----------



## Metals406

Good show Bob! 

Glad ya saved that diagram. . . I too use the triangle a fair amount. . . The coos, not so much.


----------



## RandyMac

I'm glad Bob had that on file, I lost mine somewhere. Thanks Bob.


----------



## Gologit

In large timber I seem to have better luck with the Triangle than the T.

It's easier, for me anyhow, to keep all the cuts lined up right with the Triangle when I can't see both sides of the tree at once. Watch the wind when you're using it, there's lots of opportunity to get hung up. Don't ask me how I know.


----------



## Rounder

bigskyjake said:


> If you get up this way we'll hijack an old cable skidder, let the line out with a pair of tongs on it, drive up to Whitefish, and go trolling for hippies


 
Ain't that the truth...We salvaged the Brush Creek Fire, up by Tally Lake. Whitefish was the closest town to camp.....#### that place. Lots of trustafarians in Beamers......


----------



## hammerlogging

maybe "human" was there, dude I met at a bar in Caspar, CA, drove his mom's handmedown mercedes.


----------



## Metals406

mtsamloggit said:


> Ain't that the truth...We salvaged the Brush Creek Fire, up by Tally Lake. Whitefish was the closest town to camp.....#### that place. Lots of trustafarians in Beamers......


 
Sorry I missed you at camp again Sam. . . The next two weeks are gonna be crazy for me.


----------



## bitzer

RandyMac said:


> I have the sign of my Clan.
> 
> When you a head leaner, go halfway in, that will help bend the fiber and it won't pull as much. Cutting steeper helps that as well.


 
Thats was I was thinking too. Get that damn compression wood out of there. Open er up for surgery. 

I've read tales of timber pirates, back in the day, when it was a free for all. Whoever could get there first and no law to interfere. Fights breakin out, rigged timber sales, accidently cutting into the next guy's 40. Musta been a helluva a lot of fun. That and the after party. Around here its was Hurley, Hayward, or Hell. 


I've become more and more of a fan of the triangle.


----------



## Rounder

Metals406 said:


> Sorry I missed you at camp again Sam. . . The next two weeks are gonna be crazy for me.


 
No worries, we were to tired and dirty to be entertaining any guests, lol


----------



## Metals406

mtsamloggit said:


> No worries, we were to tired and dirty to be entertaining any guests, lol


 
LOL

Well then, it worked out. 

I've been calling my butt off in the last week or so trying to get young Jameson a falling gig up here. Thought I had him hooked up today for sure!

Jameson called the dude, and mentioned Forestry School. . . That ended the conversation I guess. Seems the ol boy's been burnt in the past hiring dudes with degrees. :msp_confused:

Guy lost his two cutters to Helo jobs in ID, so he doesn't have anyone to tip wood or run his stroker.

I feel like saying to hell with the shop and going into the woods again, even if it's just this one sale. I can almost taste it. :drool:


----------



## slowp

I can pick up a Chehalis paper and see if there's any rigging rat jobs advertised. Maybe those Rygaards need somebody? :msp_rolleyes:

Logging has been occurring on every little piece of property that had trees (it seems) but heard that Weyco quit taking export logs so that may end.


----------



## Gologit

Metals406 said:


> LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jameson called the dude, and mentioned Forestry School. . . That ended the conversation I guess. Seems the ol boy's been burnt in the past hiring dudes with degrees. :msp_confused:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I feel like saying to hell with the shop and going into the woods again, even if it's just this one sale. I can almost taste it. :drool:


 
Yup...most owners aren't really interested in how much education their fallers have. What they're interested in is good work...and a lot of it. Jameson might want to soft pedal the school thing until he gets his foot in the door. Later on, after they see he can cut, he might bring it up and maybe it would open up new responsibilities and opportunities for him.

Nate, you got the LOGGER DISEASE. There's no cure for it, either. If that guy is behind, see if you can work weekends for him. That might help the symptoms a little. :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Sport Faller

Gologit said:


> Try this for heavy head leaners. I've used the triangle cut fairly often and it seems to work out pretty good. I tend to cut a little deeper face than shown in the picture, depending on the amount of lean, but that's just me.
> 
> It's called the Coos Bay cut...many thanks to Gas71 for the diagram.


 
nice, thanks man, there's nooo way I would be able to keep my cuts straight trying to do that T cut but the triangle looks doable


----------



## Metals406

slowp said:


> I can pick up a Chehalis paper and see if there's any rigging rat jobs advertised. Maybe those Rygaards need somebody? :msp_rolleyes:
> 
> Logging has been occurring on every little piece of property that had trees (it seems) but heard that Weyco quit taking export logs so that may end.


 
I think he's gonna just concentrate on school.

Word tell, Idaho's gonna blow up this summer though. . . Lots of sticks gonna be hitting the ground.


----------



## Gologit

bigskyjake said:


> nice, thanks man, there's nooo way I would be able to keep my cuts straight trying to do that T cut but the triangle looks doable


 
If I worked at the T more I might have better luck with it but the Triangle seems to work just fine.

On the T I always had trouble getting my side notches even so that the holding wood was consistent all the way through. I'd peck away at it and peck away at it and waste a lot more time than the tree was really worth. The Triangle just seemed to be easier and faster.

LOL...you could probably get a pretty good brawl started 'mongst a bunch of fallers about which way is really best. I just use what works best for me.


----------



## Metals406

Gologit said:


> Yup...most owners aren't really interested in how much education their fallers have. What they're interested in is good work...and a lot of it. Jameson might want to soft pedal the school thing until he gets his foot in the door. Later on, after they see he can cut, he might bring it up and maybe it would open up new responsibilities and opportunities for him.
> 
> Nate, you got the LOGGER DISEASE. There's no cure for it, either. If that guy is behind, see if you can work weekends for him. That might help the symptoms a little. :hmm3grin2orange:


 
I talked with this particular logger, Pat, for quite a while on the phone. He's a good guy by what I could gather. . . Lots of common sense.

He shut the sale down last fall, and it was sketchy whether or not he'd start up again. His go-to cutters ended up taking other gigs trampin' around. Now they have a good job falling under a K-Max in ID. One of them is very well known around here for his cutting skill, the other guy I grew up with, and didn't even realize he was cutting until last week. Last I saw him, he was doing carpentry next to our framing gig.

Pat told me he thought they would wait for him to start up again, and you could tell he's frustrated. At the end of last week he wasn't even sure if he'd log anymore.

He had a sale under contract with PC, and wanted them to cut him a break to help offset fuel going through the roof. I guess they played ball, cause he's ready to go.

He asked me point blank on the phone, "Can this Jameson guy cut?" I said Jameson wasn't an old hand being only 26 or so, but he did okay from what I had seen -- and would be reliable. I mentioned he just finished school, and he said, "I need someone who won't stand there over analyzing each tree, and will get wood on the ground." I think that may have been a nod to his past experiences with college forestry grads.


----------



## Metals406

Gologit said:


> Nate, you got the LOGGER DISEASE. There's no cure for it, either. If that guy is behind, see if you can work weekends for him. That might help the symptoms a little. :hmm3grin2orange:


 
You're clearly not helping me fight my addiction Bob. :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Hddnis

Metals406 said:


> You're clearly not helping me fight my addiction Bob. :hmm3grin2orange:




You know you won't be happy until you're gazing back over a bunch of trees that _you_ helped to find a new horizontal orientation.:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## RandyMac

I just want one more tree and a few to practice on first.


----------



## Metals406

RandyMac said:


> I just want one more tree and a few to practice on first.


 
Yeah, but we all know that "one" tree you want -- is in a National/State Park. :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## RandyMac

Metals406 said:


> Yeah, but we all know that "one" tree you want -- is in a National/State Park. :hmm3grin2orange:


 
Well the truly grand trees are in Parks, therefore exempt, there are a few leftovers here and there.
JC will cut trees somewhere, only a matter of time and location.


----------



## forestryworks

RandyMac said:


> JC will cut trees somewhere, only a matter of time and location.


 
By hook or by crook, MacKendrick!


----------



## Metals406

forestryworks said:


> By hook or by crook, MacKendrick!


 
Hey, go drink some Bud Light and cool your heels flatlander!


----------



## madhatte

Metals406 said:


> Word tell, Idaho's gonna blow up this summer though. . . Lots of sticks gonna be hitting the ground.



On the one hand, sounds good -- work and money aplenty -- on the other hand, if I get deployed on a bunch of project fires elsewhere, what will we lose here? I'm in Placerville, CA right now for advanced cruiser training. Friday I'm in Tampa, FL, mostly on vacation. We've already had a pile of fires in the last week. Last year? A swing and a miss. The fuels are there to cause a record year for fires, but what of the weather? 

Talking with FS folk, there is a general concern over a lack of standards between regions. R5 vs R6? Sure, makes sense. BUT -- what about within regions? R6 includes, for example, both Colville and Klamath. Those are in NO WAY the same bioregions. Yet, the USFS wants to administer fire control within the region as though it was somehow "the same". 

Are we just looking at a R5 "People's Republik Of Kalifornia vs Everyone Else" thing, or is there a serious disconnect? Well, rumor as it that NorCal is on standby while SoCal is deployed to TX/NM/OK. Is this OK? Will NorCal be comp'd later in the season?


----------



## Gologit

Metals406 said:


> You're clearly not helping me fight my addiction Bob. :hmm3grin2orange:


 
Maybe there ought to be a 12 step program for guys who leave the woods...Loggers Anonymous.


----------



## David (saltas)

@ madhatte 

Nothing else quite burns like Eucalyptus does it


----------



## mile9socounty

madhatte said:


> On the one hand, sounds good -- work and money aplenty -- on the other hand, if I get deployed on a bunch of project fires elsewhere, what will we lose here? I'm in Placerville, CA right now for advanced cruiser training. Friday I'm in Tampa, FL, mostly on vacation. We've already had a pile of fires in the last week. Last year? A swing and a miss. The fuels are there to cause a record year for fires, but what of the weather?
> 
> Talking with FS folk, there is a general concern over a lack of standards between regions. R5 vs R6? Sure, makes sense. BUT -- what about within regions? R6 includes, for example, both Colville and Klamath. Those are in NO WAY the same bioregions. Yet, the USFS wants to administer fire control within the region as though it was somehow "the same".
> 
> Are we just looking at a R5 "People's Republik Of Kalifornia vs Everyone Else" thing, or is there a serious disconnect? Well, rumor as it that NorCal is on standby while SoCal is deployed to TX/NM/OK. Is this OK? Will NorCal be comp'd later in the season?


 
A swing and a miss is correct. For the whole of what fire season we had last year. Myself and my crew got to set boots on only one fire. Not even in Douglas County! Believe it or not, it was in Jackson County. East Evans Creek is a nasty rocky steep place. The rocky terrain did open the eyes of my green crew. They were getting all sorts of ticked off digging line is sheer rock. 

We had the potential for a great fire season last summer, just no starts. It seems that "mother nature" is going to drag her free as long as she can with this cool wet weather. Which on one hand is perfectly fine. The green up will be greater. The ground moisture will be outstanding and when it decides to evaporate. Hell we should see some decent thunder cells building. 

The bosses claim its going to be another mild and boring summer. I highly doubt this. If we continue down the road of a couple mild summers. The big one will hit us and good. I guess it is what it is.


----------



## Metals406

madhatte said:


> On the one hand, sounds good -- work and money aplenty -- on the other hand, if I get deployed on a bunch of project fires elsewhere, what will we lose here? I'm in Placerville, CA right now for advanced cruiser training. Friday I'm in Tampa, FL, mostly on vacation. We've already had a pile of fires in the last week. Last year? A swing and a miss. The fuels are there to cause a record year for fires, but what of the weather?
> 
> Talking with FS folk, there is a general concern over a lack of standards between regions. R5 vs R6? Sure, makes sense. BUT -- what about within regions? R6 includes, for example, both Colville and Klamath. Those are in NO WAY the same bioregions. Yet, the USFS wants to administer fire control within the region as though it was somehow "the same".
> 
> Are we just looking at a R5 "People's Republik Of Kalifornia vs Everyone Else" thing, or is there a serious disconnect? Well, rumor as it that NorCal is on standby while SoCal is deployed to TX/NM/OK. Is this OK? Will NorCal be comp'd later in the season?


  
Our local weather guesser has done pretty good predicting the weather this year. He's calling for a big warm up during July, maybe August. If that happens with any amount of moisture, I think we'll see fires in the NW.

We've already seen how destructive this weather pattern has been so far.

The logging will be good while this moisture and cool hangs out, but two things can shut them down right quick. The first is long stretches of warm, with intermittent intense thunderstorms. Not only do you not log anywhere near cable during storms, but it'll most likely kick off fires.

It used to be, that loggers would just segue into firefighting from logging. . . But now it's all political and harder to get on.

I watched a logger get turned away from a fire with his D6. He was close and crawled right up to the seat of the burn while it was still under an acre. He was told to go away, because he wasn't "qualified" to do anything. That particular fire burned a lot more ground before it was all said and done.


----------



## madhatte

Metals406 said:


> I watched a logger get turned away from a fire with his D6. He was close and crawled right up to the seat of the burn while it was still under an acre. He was told to go away, because he wasn't "qualified" to do anything. That particular fire burned a lot more ground before it was all said and done.


 
That's why our equipment operators are red-carded. Having hands tied is no fun.


----------



## Hddnis

Running things "by the book" with a good dose of "political" thrown in gets people killed. Never the people that make the stupid calls either, it is always the boots on the ground that pay the price.

I think alot of it can be blamed on lawyers. No matter what happens they sue somebody. Agencies all over the place are trying to be sue proof, but no such thing exists as long as there are lawyers.




Mr. HE


----------



## Hddnis

As an example there was some flooding. A big tree on a river bank was over into the swollen river, pushing hard against a bridge that was needed to evacuate a small community that was flooding. The only guy that worked for the highway department with proper credentials to run a saw that big was over an hour away. So they just sat there with the bridge closed, cars backing up on the wrong side, waiting.

It was pretty simple but very dangerous, cut the tree at the stump, it would turn, go under the bridge and move downstream to the lake. 

An older logger came by and offered to make the cut. I didn't know him but you could tell in a glance he knew his stuff, everything from the old 4x4 truck to the clothes to his saws in the back. Highway guys said "No, we have to wait for our guy." It was stupid so I said "My badge trumps your highway authority. I'm giving the go ahead for him to make the cut. Anything goes wrong you can blame it on me."

Old guy sized it up and made the cut in about ten minutes. Bridge was saved, people evacuated, highway guys pretended it never happened. I was told their official report would say that the tree worked free by itself.




Mr. HE


----------



## Metals406

Hddnis said:


> As an example there was some flooding. A big tree on a river bank was over into the swollen river, pushing hard against a bridge that was needed to evacuate a small community that was flooding. The only guy that worked for the highway department with proper credentials to run a saw that big was over an hour away. So they just sat there with the bridge closed, cars backing up on the wrong side, waiting.
> 
> It was pretty simple but very dangerous, cut the tree at the stump, it would turn, go under the bridge and move downstream to the lake.
> 
> An older logger came by and offered to make the cut. I didn't know him but you could tell in a glance he knew his stuff, everything from the old 4x4 truck to the clothes to his saws in the back. Highway guys said "No, we have to wait for our guy." It was stupid so I said "My badge trumps your highway authority. I'm giving the go ahead for him to make the cut. Anything goes wrong you can blame it on me."
> 
> Old guy sized it up and made the cut in about ten minutes. Bridge was saved, people evacuated, highway guys pretended it never happened. I was told their official report would say that the tree worked free by itself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. HE


 
Ahhhh, the fear of being sued, it does powerful things to folks.

COFFEE IS HOT BY GOD!


----------



## slowp

Kind of a thread drift, but beware the operations fire. Make darn sure you have the correct amount of hose, tools, etc. When the fire is out, if agencies have responded, they WILL look for a way for you to pay for it. I went through this experience. The fire guy suddenly became a timber sale contract "expert" and mentioned that there was a roll of hose missing on the fire truck, and that meant the fire was "negligent". I had to point out that the extra roll of hose would still not reach to where the fire was, and the logger had it under control by the time they arrived. He had put a cat line around it, and the sky opened up and doused the flames. The cause was a feller buncher catching on fire and burning up. It also sounded like the fire crew was milking their time on the mop up a bit. Anyway, the FS ended up not getting paid for their response. 

Things can get extra nasty so make sure you have everything up to snuff. The blame game is alive and well, especially in lean budget years.


----------



## Metals406

slowp said:


> Kind of a thread drift, but beware the operations fire. Make darn sure you have the correct amount of hose, tools, etc. When the fire is out, if agencies have responded, they WILL look for a way for you to pay for it. I went through this experience. The fire guy suddenly became a timber sale contract "expert" and mentioned that there was a roll of hose missing on the fire truck, and that meant the fire was "negligent". I had to point out that the extra roll of hose would still not reach to where the fire was, and the logger had it under control by the time they arrived. He had put a cat line around it, and the sky opened up and doused the flames. The cause was a feller buncher catching on fire and burning up. It also sounded like the fire crew was milking their time on the mop up a bit. Anyway, the FS ended up not getting paid for their response.
> 
> Things can get extra nasty so make sure you have everything up to snuff. The blame game is alive and well, especially in lean budget years.


 
Don't even get me started on some of the shystery things I've seen DNR and FS do on fires. :bang:


----------



## Greenwedge

Metals406 said:


> Don't even get me started on some of the shystery things I've seen DNR and FS do on fires. :bang:


 
By all means.........get started!opcorn:


----------



## slowp

Greenwedge said:


> By all means.........get started!opcorn:



I'd say 33% of why I quit going on fires was because of all the wasteage. My taxes were paying for that BS. 

I shall tell one episode. I went as overhead, also known as overfed, and worked in the plans dept. The fire was winding down. The fire was in mopup and crews were starting to be sent elsewhere. In comes a load of plywood. The IC (incident commander) had ordered the plywood, knowing that the fire was about done for, because he wanted to show a buddy how fast those "hamburger stands" could be assembled. So, the carpenter guys went to work and construction was finished, the next day they were torn down as everybody was to be demobed--fire over. 

But not to worry, the ranger district got to have the used plywood so nothing wrong....right? :bang:


----------



## Metals406

slowp said:


> I'd say 33% of why I quit going on fires was because of all the wasteage. My taxes were paying for that BS.
> 
> I shall tell one episode. I went as overhead, also known as overfed, and worked in the plans dept. The fire was winding down. The fire was in mopup and crews were starting to be sent elsewhere. In comes a load of plywood. The IC (incident commander) had ordered the plywood, knowing that the fire was about done for, because he wanted to show a buddy how fast those "hamburger stands" could be assembled. So, the carpenter guys went to work and construction was finished, the next day they were torn down as everybody was to be demobed--fire over.
> 
> But not to worry, the ranger district got to have the used plywood so nothing wrong....right? :bang:


 
Fine example Miss P. How bout getting saws, tools, sleeping bags, tents, water jugs, etc. . . All thrown in a hole dug by a cat. The the dozer runs it's tracks over it a few times to crush it good, and bury it.

All to keep their budget numbers good for the money they want to blow the next year.

Super. . .


----------



## Sport Faller

Metals406 said:


> Fine example Miss P. How bout getting saws, tools, sleeping bags, tents, water jugs, etc. . . All thrown in a hole dug by a cat. The the dozer runs it's tracks over it a few times to crush it good, and bury it.
> 
> All to keep their budget numbers good for the money they want to blow the next year.
> 
> Super. . .


 
I think I'm gonna barf, but it might not be a bad idea to take not of the gear "cache" and head back later just to see if a guy could maybe dig up a 440 or 3 that hadn't gotten hit


----------



## Metals406

bigskyjake said:


> I think I'm gonna barf, but it might not be a bad idea to take not of the gear "cache" and head back later just to see if a guy could maybe dig up a 440 or 3 that hadn't gotten hit


 
The snatch and grab was done in the past, then guys would come back to town and pawn/sell the stuff. That's when the pulverizing by the cat began. They wanted to make sure it was all destroyed thoroughly.

Not sure if they still do that, it may have been kiboshed?

Next year budgets are very important to a bureaucrazy, so wastefulness is a non issue. . . For them.


----------



## Gologit

Metals406 said:


> It used to be, that loggers would just segue into firefighting from logging. . . But now it's all political and harder to get on.
> 
> I watched a logger get turned away from a fire with his D6. He was close and crawled right up to the seat of the burn while it was still under an acre. He was told to go away, because he wasn't "qualified" to do anything. That particular fire burned a lot more ground before it was all said and done.



That still happens. A few years ago there was a fire on FS property that borders some of our ground. The fire was headed our way. It was a bad year for fires and everyone's resources were spread real thin. Some fires didn't have _anybody_ on them.

I took my 6 and was cutting out some old roads into waterholes, on our ground, for the water tenders to use. I figured it was the least we could do. When I got the roads opened up there was a steady stream of tenders in and out...it was the closest water source to that side of the fire.

The fire was still coming on strong so I started cutting line and, in the process, got over onto FS ground. And, in all honesty, I knew I was. Didn't matter to me. There was nobody else there to do it.
A couple of hand crews showed up and our little corner of the fire was pretty much taken care of. I didn't think much about it at the time.

I heard about it later, though. Somebody snitched. I wasn't "carded" on the Cat, the Cat wasn't inspected, nobody had given me a formal dispatch and that apparently had some people, people in an office somewhere far away from the fire, upset. 
I got a letter. They had no "verified record or credential prepared and submitted by an accredited party" concerning me, my Cat, or my activities that day. This irritated them. I ignored the letter. I was logging.

They sent me paperwork to fill out. Lots of paperwork. I read it and threw it away. When the _next_ batch of paperwork showed up I did the same thing. They started phoning. Their paperwork wasn't complete and I was the culprit. I quit taking their phone calls.

They finally sent a guy out to talk to me, someone I knew. We had a good conversation and I think we each learned a little bit. He went back and filed a report based on our conversation and the flow of paperwork and phone calls finally stopped.

I got a rather nasty little note from the FS about the whole thing but no penalties were assessed.

I never heard a word about our efforts in opening up the water holes...good, bad or indifferent.

I'd do it again if the same situation came up.


----------



## slowp

I was never around the pulverizing. There was _*The Night Of The Living Dead*_, in Orleans, CA. After dark, all sorts of folks started coming out of the woodwork. We ended up getting very bright lights and lighting up the perimeter of the supply cache, because that was where the zombies were flocking to. 

It was kind of scary, til the LEO appeared. 

A friend and former neighbor of mine went out to pick up an airdrop of supplies, and almost got into a struggle with some locals who happened to be coming by. That was up the Salmon River from Somes Bar. I believe an LEO had to come to his rescue. 

Interesting place, that is.


----------



## Metals406

Bob, if that doesn't sum it all up in one post, nuthin' does.


----------



## slowp

Our crew, and others, and 3 dozers plus assorted line people sat in the puffy dust on our butts for several hours waiting for an ID team ('ologists and specialists) to discuss the visual effects of a 3 dozer wide line.
They were in the office having a meeting about that.

By the time they made a decision that it would be OK, the fire blew up at the usual time. It was a Monty Python _Run Away, Run Away, _moment. 

We sure spent a lot of time (futile) trying to save bug killed lodgepole.


----------



## Metals406

slowp said:


> I was never around the pulverizing. There was _*The Night Of The Living Dead*_, in Orleans, CA. After dark, all sorts of folks started coming out of the woodwork. We ended up getting very bright lights and lighting up the perimeter of the supply cache, because that was where the zombies were flocking to.
> 
> It was kind of scary, til the LEO appeared.
> 
> A friend and former neighbor of mine went out to pick up an airdrop of supplies, and almost got into a struggle with some locals who happened to be coming by. That was up the Salmon River from Somes Bar. I believe an LEO had to come to his rescue.
> 
> Interesting place, that is.


 
No good thieve'n zombie bastards! LOL

Stealing ain't cool, but neither is destroying equipment, in some cases, donated to the fighting of a fire.

Have a state auction and give the money to schools, or kids with cancer or sumthin'.

I just heard, not two weeks ago, that a newbie state rep of ours asked how many vehicles the state owned. Not one person had an answer, so he ordered an immediate inventory of all agencies across the board. 

He said there will be no new 2011 anything, and they'll use and maintain what they got, and drive it till the wheels fall off. . . That state rep clicked up a notch in my book.


----------



## Metals406

slowp said:


> Our crew, and others, and 3 dozers plus assorted line people sat in the puffy dust on our butts for several hours waiting for an ID team ('ologists and specialists) to discuss the visual effects of a 3 dozer wide line.
> They were in the office having a meeting about that.
> 
> By the time they made a decision that it would be OK, the fire blew up at the usual time. It was a Monty Python _Run Away, Run Away, _moment.
> 
> We sure spent a lot of time (futile) trying to save bug killed lodgepole.


 
:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## forestryworks

Metals406 said:


> He said there will be no new 2011 anything, and they'll use and maintain what they got, and drive it till the wheels fall off. . . That state rep clicked up a notch in my book.



That's the way it should be.


----------



## Sport Faller

Metals406 said:


> No good thieve'n zombie bastards! LOL
> 
> Stealing ain't cool, but neither is destroying equipment, in some cases, donated to the fighting of a fire.
> 
> Have a state auction and give the money to schools, or kids with cancer or sumthin'.
> 
> I just heard, not two weeks ago, that a newbie state rep of ours asked how many vehicles the state owned. Not one person had an answer, so he ordered an immediate inventory of all agencies across the board.
> 
> He said there will be no new 2011 anything, and they'll use and maintain what they got, and drive it till the wheels fall off. . . That state rep clicked up a notch in my book.


 
it's a great notion and a most valiant effort, but you know he'll probably get shot down somewhere along the line


----------



## forestryworks

Silly ass government agencies. I think I'll quit school, drift, and cut timber.


----------



## Metals406

forestryworks said:


> Silly ass government agencies. I think I'll quit school, drift, and cut timber.


 
Make up your mind!!! :bang:


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> Our crew, and others, and 3 dozers plus assorted line people sat in the puffy dust on our butts for several hours waiting for an ID team ('ologists and specialists) to discuss the visual effects of a 3 dozer wide line.
> They were in the office having a meeting about that.
> 
> By the time they made a decision that it would be OK, the fire blew up at the usual time. It was a Monty Python _Run Away, Run Away, _moment.
> 
> We sure spent a lot of time (futile) trying to save bug killed lodgepole.


 
Sounds like Yellowstone in '88.


----------



## Gologit

forestryworks said:


> Silly ass government agencies. I think I'll quit school, drift, and cut timber.


 
Sure...go right ahead. And the _rest_ of us, who _did_ quit school, _did_ go on the drift, and are _still_ cutting timber and logging as a result will gather you amongst us and beat you severely
with old choker bells and broken suspenders.


----------



## slowp

forestryworks said:


> Silly ass government agencies. I think I'll quit school, drift, and cut timber.



Goodness, you have to put up with bad stuff in just about any job.
I saw a bit of country working for the silly ass govt. agency. There were some very good people working too. It is mostly in the PNW, which happens to pay better, but has extreme politics that one can go crazy. California is bad too. Arizona was like stepping back many years, we were The Forestry and got some things accomplished, until discovered by the enviros. Then the law suits began. 

There's good and bad...like when we were on a fire in very good timber, in Western OR and our division boss brought us cold pizza. He apologized for not being able to bring beer. Or getting a sight seeing tour in a helicopter, flying over the North Cascade peaks, before getting dumped out to find a plot. It can be an adventure as well as being a pain. Just like most everything. 

Now, go and contemplate. There will be a shortage of foresters unless they turn everything into National Park. Then you can wear one of those hats. :msp_tongue:

Speaking of hats.....?????


----------



## David (saltas)

Gologit said:


> Sounds like Yellowstone in '88.


 
I visited Yellowstone in 1995. 
I was told the the reason they let it burn was because it was started by lightening and was there for a natural event and that they only put out fires that start from unnatural causes.
I Said you what.
The parks guy told me again straight faced an all.
I made some remark about what low IQ posterior roosterhead came up that male bovine manure.


----------



## Metals406

saltas said:


> I visited Yellowstone in 1995.
> I was told the the reason they let it burn was because it was started by lightening and was there for a natural event and that they only put out fires that start from unnatural causes.
> I Said you what.
> The parks guy told me again straight faced an all.
> I made some remark about what low IQ posterior roosterhead came up that male bovine manure.


 
Still happens all the time. Look up Glacier National Park, and Bob Marshall Wilderness. If a fire sparks off in Glacier, it's only fought if buildings are threatened, and not at all in the Bob.


----------



## forestryworks

Well I guess Mother Nature got mad at 'em for stopping her fires, letting it grow up thicker than a thicket, and not logging or thinning.

Can't have it both ways.


----------



## smokechase II

*change*

*"I visited Yellowstone in 1995. 
I was told the the reason they let it burn was because it was started by lightening and was there for a natural event and that they only put out fires that start from unnatural causes.
I Said you what.
The parks guy told me again straight faced an all.
I made some remark about what low IQ posterior roosterhead came up that male bovine manure."*

==========

that may be the policy now but it wasn't in 1988 when yellowstone really burned.
Yes, some of the fires were let burn but basically half were fires that they tried to stop but couldn't. 
An important consideration is that we cannot stop these large fires from occurring, we just delay them.

- - - - - - - - -

This is really odd.
I used to be a smokejumper years ago and I had 7 trips to the interior of Alaska. Got to jump a couple times north of the arctic circle and one in the Brooks. But they quit that for a couple decades and let things burn. Especially the North Slope stuff.
Now they've done a turn around because of carbon sequestration and they're 'probably' going to be attacking North Slope stuff more than ever.

Turns out one environmental panic might just override the last panic.

Crazy.


----------



## Gologit

I was at Yellowstone in '88, as were a lot of people. If I remember right there were three rather minor lightning strike fires that came together and then it took off like a freight train.
There were so many different governmental agencies on that fire, arguing with each other, passing the blame, and jockeying for control, that it was basically a big circus.


----------



## slowp

I did not go to Yellowstone. The way I heered it was that they were going to let it burn. It got big. The public started hollering to save it...you can't stop a big fire in dead lodgepole. So, they started throwing things at it for political purposes. Like so many large fires, it went out when Mother Nature decided to put it out.


----------



## Joe46

I was there in 89. It flat looked ugly. Started back again in 01, and have been back every year since. Sister and my late BIL lived at Henry's Lake, Id. which is about 20 miles from West Yellowstone. Trees have pretty much all grown back, but all the dead snags still show.


----------



## smokechase II

*more fire stuff*

*"On a windy day in July a woodcutter discarded a smoking cigarette in the Targhee National Forest, less than 200 yards west of the park. This was the start of the North Fork Fire, which entered Yellowstone within hours. It burned over 400,000 acres in the park and threatened West Yellowstone, Madison, Norris, Canyon, Tower, Mammoth, and Old Faithful. On September 7th, a firestorm raged toward the Old Faithful area, nearly incinerating the entire site. Instead, at the last minute, the wind shifted slightly, blowing the body of the fire just south of Old Faithful’s main developed area.


Crown Fire by West Thumb in Yellowstone
A fire that started by Flagg Ranch just outside the south entrance started by a power line that was blown down by 60 mile per hour winds, in this single day this fire burned ten thousand acres."*

=============

The above fires were not let burn.
There is no smoking woodcutters and/or powerlines are natural provision in any national fire policy.
Several lightning fires, that also were not part of a let burn package, burned together or into the fires above or let burn fires and increased the overall acreage. 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - -

The point I'd like to make, is that in a fire ecosystem like Yellowstone, large fires cannot be stopped from occurring.
If one delays this inevitable cycle then more fuel is built up and the resulting fires are more destructive. Where this is the worst is at higher elevations because recoveries often happen in slow motion.

=============

There is more to this cycle stuff.
Most of the 3 million acres that burned in the 1910 fires, which were much more significant than Yellowstone, reburned in the 1930's. Those snags mentioned above will fall over and combined with the new growth make a superb fuel bed for the second round of fires THAT WILL HAPPEN.

Usually life is in three's:
1) Insect or disease,
2) First Fire,
3) Second Fire.

Then we start over. Not now.

=============

Where we have screwed up is with this Euro idea of stopping the evil fire.
By doing that we have actually increased the destructive level of these fires by 'nuking' the soil with too much heat for a decent recovery between stages.

Fire fighters make things worse for fire fighters.

============

Told you those stories to tell you this one:

Get ready for Yellowstone to burn again sometime in the next dozen years because its time for #3.
Regardless of our fire suppression policy its going to happen.


----------



## smokechase II

*cold fronts*

The worst days of Yellowstone were Cold Fronts.
The 1910 fires, South Canyon in 1994, the big burns of the late 1800's were all cold fronts. The wildland fires that killed the most fire fighters and citizenry in the US were cold fronts. 

Non fire fighters think that temperature is the most influential weather item on fire behavior.

Not true.

Humidity is the most influential and combine a good dry cold front with its wind you get September 7th, 1988.

Most summer/early fall cold fronts should be thought of as *dry fronts.*
That is from a weather/fire behavior manual put together about 50 years ago.

========

Next story.
I never seen so many cold fronts as this late winter-spring here in central oregon. I know that NO ONE can predict fire seasons, so take that with a big grain of salt.
(Trivia: the 1909-1910 winter was unusually wet with a high snowpack.)


----------



## Metals406

smokechase II said:


> *"On a windy day in July a woodcutter discarded a smoking cigarette in the Targhee National Forest, less than 200 yards west of the park. This was the start of the North Fork Fire, which entered Yellowstone within hours. It burned over 400,000 acres in the park and threatened West Yellowstone, Madison, Norris, Canyon, Tower, Mammoth, and Old Faithful. On September 7th, a firestorm raged toward the Old Faithful area, nearly incinerating the entire site. Instead, at the last minute, the wind shifted slightly, blowing the body of the fire just south of Old Faithful’s main developed area.
> 
> 
> Crown Fire by West Thumb in Yellowstone
> A fire that started by Flagg Ranch just outside the south entrance started by a power line that was blown down by 60 mile per hour winds, in this single day this fire burned ten thousand acres."*
> 
> =============
> 
> The above fires were not let burn.
> There is no smoking woodcutters and/or powerlines are natural provision in any national fire policy.
> Several lightning fires, that also were not part of a let burn package, burned together or into the fires above or let burn fires and increased the overall acreage.
> 
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> 
> The point I'd like to make, is that in a fire ecosystem like Yellowstone, large fires cannot be stopped from occurring.
> If one delays this inevitable cycle then more fuel is built up and the resulting fires are more destructive. Where this is the worst is at higher elevations because recoveries often happen in slow motion.
> 
> =============
> 
> There is more to this cycle stuff.
> Most of the 3 million acres that burned in the 1910 fires, which were much more significant than Yellowstone, reburned in the 1930's. Those snags mentioned above will fall over and combined with the new growth make a superb fuel bed for the second round of fires THAT WILL HAPPEN.
> 
> Usually life is in three's:
> 1) Insect or disease,
> 2) First Fire,
> 3) Second Fire.
> 
> Then we start over. Not now.
> 
> =============
> 
> Where we have screwed up is with this Euro idea of stopping the evil fire.
> By doing that we have actually increased the destructive level of these fires by 'nuking' the soil with too much heat for a decent recovery between stages.
> 
> Fire fighters make things worse for fire fighters.
> 
> ============
> 
> Told you those stories to tell you this one:
> 
> Get ready for Yellowstone to burn again sometime in the next dozen years because its time for #3.
> Regardless of our fire suppression policy its going to happen.


 
Yup, fuel is allowed to build to a point where you don't have 1 minute fuels, or 5 minute fuels. . . You have buildup like you just loaded the stove for the night.

The intense heat is very destructive, instead of a cleaning effect that it should have. 

In the next few years, there will have to be some serious pre-commercial thinning in the North Fork of the Flathead. The amount of lodgepole seed that was kicked off by the Moose Fire is ridiculous; literally trees every inch or so apart.

If nothing is done to mechanically remove the saplings, another dry year will invite another catastrophic fire.

I don't give a rip if it's a park, reserve, preserve, or wilderness area. . . Logging should be allowed, or fires lit every few years to limit fuel buildup.

Since most of these places are managed by jackasses, fuel will be allowed to build, and fires will be super destructive. The only answer they have is to do minimal urban interface remediation -- which won't be enough to shut down a barn burner.

More logging, less talking. . . Get'r done.


----------



## nw axe man

smokechase II said:


> The worst days of Yellowstone were Cold Fronts.
> The 1910 fires, South Canyon in 1994, the big burns of the late 1800's were all cold fronts. The wildland fires that killed the most fire fighters and citizenry in the US were cold fronts.
> 
> Non fire fighters think that temperature is the most influential weather item on fire behavior.
> 
> Not true.
> 
> Humidity is the most influential and combine a good dry cold front with its wind you get September 7th, 1988.
> 
> Most summer/early fall cold fronts should be thought of as *dry fronts.*
> That is from a weather/fire behavior manual put together about 50 years ago.
> 
> ========
> 
> Next story.
> I never seen so many cold fronts as this late winter-spring here in central oregon. I know that NO ONE can predict fire seasons, so take that with a big grain of salt.
> (Trivia: the 1909-1910 winter was unusually wet with a high snowpack.)


 
I never seen so many cold fronts as this late winter-spring here in central oregon. I know that NO ONE can predict fire seasons, so take that with a big grain of salt.
(Trivia: the 1909-1910 winter was unusually wet with a high snowpack.) 
Have to agree with that. I just spent all last week in Prineville on Hwy 26 working with the Ochoco NF guys. Had snow in our camp 3 days and Tuesday it rained harder than it ever has on me in 25 years of going down there. Like an old timer who worked on the Ochoco said one time, "It never rains on the Ochoco."


----------



## forestryworks

Metals406 said:


> More logging, less talking. . . Get'r done.



Yup.


----------



## Gologit

Metals406 said:


> Yup, fuel is allowed to build to a point where you don't have 1 minute fuels, or 5 minute fuels. . . You have buildup like you just loaded the stove for the night.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't give a rip if it's a park, reserve, preserve, or wilderness area. . . Logging should be allowed, or fires lit every few years to limit fuel buildup.
> 
> Since most of these places are managed by jackasses, fuel will be allowed to build, and fires will be super destructive. The only answer they have is to do minimal urban interface remediation -- which won't be enough to shut down a barn burner.
> 
> More logging, less talking. . . Get'r done.


 
Well said.


----------



## madhatte

smokechase II said:


> Turns out one environmental panic might just override the last panic.
> 
> Crazy.



Ain't that the way of it?


----------



## bitzer

Well, I don't have anything intelligent to say regarding fires other than I like em. 

It got awful windy at the end of the day today. Real nice gusts blowing across the lay got me putting a wedge in on the far side for good measure. Had a nice lightning crack above my head as this one started to tip and then the downpour. 






















View attachment 185912
View attachment 185913
View attachment 185914
View attachment 185915


----------



## forestryworks

Hey bitzer, nice.

Looks like white pine?


----------



## forestryworks

*Final*

Here is the final picture taken at the Park I did the hazard tree falling at.

Standing in front of the biggest tree in the Park. Was a fun time there.


----------



## madhatte

Why would I:






do this:






to this? 






Obviously, for this:






(it's all about the disease, y'all)

By the by, if you know what this is:






then, you are obviously from Western Washington.


----------



## smokechase II

*Falling Pics*

Disclaimer;
I just found this on a fire fighter site. (This was at a Doug Dent training/certification on the San Bernardino National Forest in California)

http://www.wildlandfire.com/docs/2011/lessons-learned/aar-close-call-escaping-the-stump-v-good.pdf

For the good of the order - I have seen once where a slightly bigger piece out of the *center *of a Loblolly snag (aka southern or slash pine) was thrown back to the stump by a relatively small oak tree. That faller, Mark Gibbons of the Redmond Jumpers, had exited briskly w/saw and we only had to restart his heart once. We did not have any idea that was about to happen or possible. A thought for anyone could be do everything you can to avoid dropping into oak or similar strength hardwoods because they can bend a long ways, not break, and actually throw very large widowmakers back even past the stump. It is not inconceivable that the second or third sway of the hardwood could be what throws said widowmaker, so keep looking longer than the rabble around you.

==============

That fire fighter chat site, highly regulated and no fun, is at:

They Said


----------



## slowp

Hey Nate, Where'd you get the Yardbirds decal?


----------



## forestryworks

smokechase II said:


> Disclaimer;
> I just found this on a fire fighter site. (This was at a Doug Dent training/certification on the San Bernardino National Forest in California)
> 
> http://www.wildlandfire.com/docs/2011/lessons-learned/aar-close-call-escaping-the-stump-v-good.pdf
> 
> For the good of the order - I have seen once where a slightly bigger piece out of the *center *of a Loblolly snag (aka southern or slash pine) was thrown back to the stump by a relatively small oak tree. That faller, Mark Gibbons of the Redmond Jumpers, had exited briskly w/saw and we only had to restart his heart once. We did not have any idea that was about to happen or possible. A thought for anyone could be do everything you can to avoid dropping into oak or similar strength hardwoods because they can bend a long ways, not break, and actually throw very large widowmakers back even past the stump. It is not inconceivable that the second or third sway of the hardwood could be what throws said widowmaker, so keep looking longer than the rabble around you.
> 
> ==============
> 
> That fire fighter chat site, highly regulated and no fun, is at:
> 
> They Said


 
Wonder why the oak wasn't cut?

I cut a lot of hardwoods out of my way when I did my hazard tree work for that very reason. Bunch of slingshots just waiting. 

Or they'll be springpoles when the tree does lay out.


----------



## madhatte

slowp said:


> Hey Nate, Where'd you get the Yardbirds decal?


 
Why, at Yard Birds, of course! 

Turns out there's a movement afoot to restore the "sitting bird" in the parking lot and they're selling stickers and T-shirts and stuff to raise the cash. I'm a sucker for Yard Birds stuff since I grew up in Centralia. 

There's a "Birdfest" there June 25, I think, with live music including members of the -- get this! -- The Ventures! -- as well as (I'm pretty sure) a viewing of Jake The Alligator Man from Marsh's Free Museum in Long Beach. Oughta be a hoot and a holler.


----------



## slowp

That sounds like a worthy celebration to go to. I miss the missiles that were in the parking lot. That was my favorite store, and the former large sized Sunbirds a close second. We used to get the $5 German Army wool pants there and sometimes the $5 rainpants.


I still give the downsized Sunbirds a lot of business. 

I am a Lewis County native!


----------



## madhatte

Yard Birds was the best local institution ever. Sunbirds was cool, too, especially the disorderly layout. Chehalis Yard Birds was king, The Oly Yard Birds was OK, the Shelton was one a shadow of its brethren.


----------



## dave k

Been doing storm damage clean up on a local estate so a bulk of it is on the ground ! but had a few Ash to fell along this boundry wall. Not big but on a sunny day in a great place who cares, the wet and cold will be back soon enough !!


----------



## Sport Faller

other than the 60's supergroup, what the pooh is Yardbirds?


----------



## forestryworks

bigskyjake said:


> other than the 60's supergroup, what the pooh is Yardbirds?


 
Yard Bird Statues, Chehalis, Washington


----------



## Metals406

dave k said:


> Been doing storm damage clean up on a local estate so a bulk of it is on the ground ! but had a few Ash to fell along this boundry wall. Not big but on a sunny day in a great place who cares, the wet and cold will be back soon enough !!


 
*Damn, Ireland is pretty!!*


----------



## madhatte

forestryworks said:


> Yard Bird Statues, Chehalis, Washington



Here I am inside of the thing:






and outside:


----------



## slowp

I tried and failed to find a picture of the bird surrounded by water.
Here's a movie trailer...yes, they made a movie about Yardbirds, that shows more. 

Our Wenatchee version was Stan's Merrymart.
Here's the movie. To kind of keep on subject, you could get rigging clothes and web gear and all sorts of stuff at the Yardbirds.
Madsen's is just a bit north.
Skinny and Fatty: The Story of Yard Birds (Trailer) on Vimeo


----------



## madhatte

My buddy Rob and his wife Karma made that movie. I got my DVD from him for looking at some trees he was worried about blowing down. Prairie-colonization firs don't blow down easily, and I told him so. I like the barter system.


----------



## Joe46

Use to go there with our family friends from Winlock. Swains General store in Port Angeles was similar. Use to carry a lot of surplus stuff, but that kinda faded away.


----------



## nw axe man

smokechase II said:


> Disclaimer;
> I just found this on a fire fighter site. (This was at a Doug Dent training/certification on the San Bernardino National Forest in California)
> 
> http://www.wildlandfire.com/docs/2011/lessons-learned/aar-close-call-escaping-the-stump-v-good.pdf
> 
> For the good of the order - I have seen once where a slightly bigger piece out of the *center *of a Loblolly snag (aka southern or slash pine) was thrown back to the stump by a relatively small oak tree. That faller, Mark Gibbons of the Redmond Jumpers, had exited briskly w/saw and we only had to restart his heart once. We did not have any idea that was about to happen or possible. A thought for anyone could be do everything you can to avoid dropping into oak or similar strength hardwoods because they can bend a long ways, not break, and actually throw very large widowmakers back even past the stump. It is not inconceivable that the second or third sway of the hardwood could be what throws said widowmaker, so keep looking longer than the rabble around you.
> 
> ==============
> 
> That fire fighter chat site, highly regulated and no fun, is at:
> 
> They Said


 
How's Mark Gibbons doing. He's a good man.


----------



## Greenwedge

*Jimmy*

Did any of you Washington Cats know Jimmy? I only knew him for a little while, but he sure was a hell of a guy!


----------



## Greenwedge

*Here's a couple from a year or two back.*

I do kinda miss cutting these shovel flats!



View attachment 186155
View attachment 186156
View attachment 186157
View attachment 186158


----------



## Rounder

Flat is nice on the knees, nice pics.


----------



## RandyMac

Greenwedge said:


> I do kinda miss cutting these shovel flats!
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 186155
> View attachment 186156
> View attachment 186157
> View attachment 186158


 

dang, look at that stump pull, clear to the roots. Maybe a bit steeper on the face.


----------



## Greenwedge

RandyMac said:


> dang, look at that stump pull, clear to the roots. Maybe a bit steeper on the face.


 
That was intended Mac Daddy. She hooked out over McDonald Lagoon something fierce, and was given specific orders to keep the drink clean. She had a walking dutchman in er and I purposely made the uphill side of my holding wood in that root to insure the integrity of my holding wood. As you can see she worked well! lol


----------



## RandyMac

Greenwedge said:


> That was intended Mac Daddy. She hooked out over McDonald Lagoon something fierce, and was given specific orders to keep the drink clean. She had a walking dutchman in er and I purposely made the uphill side of my holding wood in that root to insure the integrity of my holding wood. As you can see she worked well! lol


 
Gotcha, was it as noisy as it looked, they kinda squeak.


----------



## Greenwedge

RandyMac said:


> Gotcha, was it as noisy as it looked, they kinda squeak.


 
Not really a Squeak, more like an intense screech!


----------



## NORMZILLA44

How many Dutchman's are there now? I knew of three until recently? The Step, the kerf, and swing dutchman. I heard you refer to that as a walking dutchman same as the swing? Also I guess there is a soft Dutchman you guy's heard of that one?


----------



## bitzer

Nice pics Pat! I figured you had a reason for pulling that root out! The cookie cutters in the saw forum would be jealous, hehe.

Thanks Jameson! Yep, White Pine. Nice pic of you in front of that pine. It looked like you had some fun on that job. It was fun seeing the progression of pics and vids through-out it. 


Hardwood limb tossing: I cut 95% hardwoods, and I've had MANY limbs thrown back at me when I've been well behind the stump. Sometimes those limbs can amount to small trees. LOOK UP and DUCK!


There are as many variations (and names) of the dutchman as can be imagined. They all swing. Soft and walk I'd equate with the same. Kerf is more like the gunning cut bypassing the undercut back to the natural lean and allowing the closing of the kerf to break the hinge. Then theres cutting one side off completely. The type of wood and situation really dictates what to use if at all. Some wood holds to the stump better than others. The options are endless and fun to play with *when you think you know what you're doing*. The last part of the last sentence can bite you in the ass. 



Been crazy busy lately, barely enough time to take a breath. Got a residental this afternoon when the wife gets home from work. 90 and humid boys! Still throwing chips though, even if it is onto pavement.

I've also noticed finished lumber prices steadily rising. Almost weekly. Hopefully thats spreading back through-out the entire industry.


----------



## NORMZILLA44

Cool, new about the curf,swing, and step, but recntly heard of the soft Dutchman, and walking I guess. I have swung a few, but doing what we do usually we have the luxury to throw a rope in em, doing tree work. Very understandable how they are a necessity for a faller. I have heard of alot of guy's getting in trouble with the kerf Dutcman. Like D. Dent siad least control of any of the methods. I would like to see it in action, and put to use on a big tree though, out of curiousity. Norm...........


----------



## madhatte

bitzer said:


> I've also noticed finished lumber prices steadily rising. Almost weekly. Hopefully thats spreading back through-out the entire industry.



From what I've seen (I have a running tally of every sale we've sold in the last four years, from high to low and back again), the recovery of timber prices is both real and steady. However, it is also sort of sad and ironic. Private lumber is largely going overseas as raw logs, no work for the mills, all value-added opportunities lost. Yep, you can blame day-traders for that. 

However, all public land (that I know of) is export-restricted, so that's pretty much all that's making it into the domestic market. Of course, the logging on public land is SEVERELY curtailed compared to even just a few years ago, so that's driving prices up. It's an artificial scarcity, but it's keeping us afloat for now. 

Your mileage may vary regionally, but I think not by much.


----------



## Greenwedge

NORMZILLA44 said:


> How many Dutchman's are there now? I knew of three until recently? The Step, the kerf, and swing dutchman. I heard you refer to that as a walking dutchman same as the swing? Also I guess there is a soft Dutchman you guy's heard of that one?


 There is so much terminology....it may be the same as a step, I'm not farmiliar with the term. The walking is a series of Dutchmans, the first cut that's flush w/ the top cut ........there aint no way I can explain it, but I usually use 3 different cuts and they help walk the tree into the next one......you just have to see it to make sense of it.


----------



## NORMZILLA44

Cool, thanks for the reply. It sounds like the same as what some guy's are calling a soft Dutchman. I know what you mean when you say you gotta see it, to make sense. Hands on for me was always easier then trying to put it together in a book or picture.


----------



## Samlock

madhatte said:


> From what I've seen (I have a running tally of every sale we've sold in the last four years, from high to low and back again), the recovery of timber prices is both real and steady. However, it is also sort of sad and ironic. Private lumber is largely going overseas as raw logs, no work for the mills, all value-added opportunities lost. Yep, you can blame day-traders for that.
> 
> However, all public land (that I know of) is export-restricted, so that's pretty much all that's making it into the domestic market. Of course, the logging on public land is SEVERELY curtailed compared to even just a few years ago, so that's driving prices up. It's an artificial scarcity, but it's keeping us afloat for now.
> 
> Your mileage may vary regionally, but I think not by much.



I can't believe you're exporting the raw logs out of the country. That's just... But the prices are getting up for sure. It goes with every parcel. Speaking of the flat... I'm cutting currently energy wood on a flattest plot there is in the world I think. Have to take my camera with tomorrow. If no pics, it didn't happen, right?


----------



## bitzer

Shameless promotion of my own pics. 

Conventional Dutch. The closing of the kerf breaks the hinge or you can cut off the far side when the back opens up enough. 







Walking Dutch. This tree had some back and side lean, so I sawed some favorable lean into it. The lower kerfs gradually change the lean until it comes out to the face. Through the entire backcut you're watching the top and sawing accordingly until you saw the far side off completely. A Sizwel in the near side really keeps it coming and sometimes has to be sawed off before it goes to far. It could be easy to lose a tree backwards this way. 






All woods hold differently and I wouldn't recommend anyone trying this on any decent size of tree without having cut MANY trees in the past. I also use a walking dutch on trees with serious side lean. You need the room for the swing, even a little brushing of limbs will kill the movement and hang you up. Then you're havin fun!
View attachment 186431
View attachment 186432


----------



## bitzer

madhatte said:


> From what I've seen (I have a running tally of every sale we've sold in the last four years, from high to low and back again), the recovery of timber prices is both real and steady. However, it is also sort of sad and ironic. Private lumber is largely going overseas as raw logs, no work for the mills, all value-added opportunities lost. Yep, you can blame day-traders for that.
> 
> However, all public land (that I know of) is export-restricted, so that's pretty much all that's making it into the domestic market. Of course, the logging on public land is SEVERELY curtailed compared to even just a few years ago, so that's driving prices up. It's an artificial scarcity, but it's keeping us afloat for now.
> 
> Your mileage may vary regionally, but I think not by much.


 
You may be right about the local effect. I buy all of my hardwood lumber from Menards and I know they buy it from a local mill. I think things are on the up turn. Thanks for the info!

Nice pics back there by the way man!


----------



## nw axe man

bitzer said:


> Shameless promotion of my own pics.
> 
> Conventional Dutch. The closing of the kerf breaks the hinge or you can cut off the far side when the back opens up enough.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Walking Dutch. This tree had some back and side lean, so I sawed some favorable lean into it. The lower kerfs gradually change the lean until it comes out to the face. Through the entire backcut you're watching the top and sawing accordingly until you saw the far side off completely. A Sizwel in the near side really keeps it coming and sometimes has to be sawed off before it goes to far. It could be easy to lose a tree backwards this way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All woods hold differently and I wouldn't recommend anyone trying this on any decent size of tree without having cut MANY trees in the past. I also use a walking dutch on trees with serious side lean. You need the room for the swing, even a little brushing of limbs will kill the movement and hang you up. Then you're havin fun!
> View attachment 186431
> View attachment 186432


Hey, Bud.
You're attachments were invalid for some reason. Can you try again. I want to see what you're talking about.


----------



## Gologit

nw axe man said:


> Hey, Bud.
> You're attachments were invalid for some reason. Can you try again. I want to see what you're talking about.


 
I couldn't get the pictures, either. I'd like to see them. 
Theres so much difference in terminology from place to place that a lot of times guys will be arguing the same side and not even know it.

LOL...working in a locale other than your own is always an education in descriptions and techniques. Some times you don't have to get very far from home for that to happen either.


----------



## Rounder

Gologit said:


> I couldn't get the pictures, either. I'd like to see them.
> Theres so much difference in terminology from place to place that a lot of times guys will be arguing the same side and not even know it.
> 
> LOL...working in a locale other than your own is always an education in descriptions and techniques. Some times you don't have to get very far from home for that to happen either.


 
Starting a new job tomorow with a big yarder outfit. Should be very interesting with different technique and terminology. Always the biggest hurdle when starting a new gig. Everyone has their own name for everything for sure, lol. It seems like whenever I talk to other fallers, we just confuse each other. I just try not to sound like too much of a ding dong. Already look like one. -Sam


----------



## mdavlee

Hope you like the new gig Sam. Try to get some pictures for us east coasters that haven't seen anything like that. :msp_wink:


----------



## Rounder

mdavlee said:


> Hope you like the new gig Sam. Try to get some pictures for us east coasters that haven't seen anything like that. :msp_wink:


 
Will do. Let me get a week under my belt before I stand around with the camera, lol. Should be doing some neat jobs, double intermediate supports, downhill stuff, the works. At least I'm just falling, hate fooling with the rigging. We'll see how she goes, it's going to be HOT logging - Sam


----------



## mdavlee

Alright man take care.


----------



## bitzer

Hey Sam can't wait to see some pics! It tickled 100 here today and the woods is as humid as cambodia. 

Hopefully this way works. Nothin new here I've posted these before and I'm having a hard time pulling them out of the thread many pages back. 

Walking (soft) Dutch





Conventional (gun bypass) Dutch





I guess the way I think about the soft dutch is that its kind of like the reverse of wedging. Instead of lifting the butt by fractions of inches to move the top by feet, I'm dropping the butt by removing fractions of inches, but still moving the top by feet. Its just another way to change the lean. If I'm completely insane in this thinking please let me Know!


----------



## Sport Faller

whoa that soft dutchman is far out, how far back do you go with the cuts, also do you just keep doing the horizontal cuts until it's leaning enough and then start in on the back?


----------



## Metals406

bigskyjake said:


> whoa that soft dutchman is far out, how far back do you go with the cuts, also do you just keep doing the horizontal cuts until it's leaning enough and then start in on the back?


 
Woah, easy grasshopper. Them are advanced cuts that can land you in a casket without proper instruction. :msp_mellow:

All in good time.


----------



## paccity

ya, need to pac some ones gear for a while, look ,listen,learn.


----------



## forestryworks

bigskyjake said:


> whoa that soft dutchman is far out, how far back do you go with the cuts, also do you just keep doing the horizontal cuts until it's leaning enough and then start in on the back?



A dutchman isn't fail proof.

I'd say get 5 years of real falling under your belt before attempting them. 

Do like paccity said, pack some gear around for a faller and watch and watch and listen and listen and ask questions.

I've tried a few dutchmans... Didn't really like it. Maybe I'll give it a shot again in a few years.


----------



## OregonSawyer

Is it just me or do you guys sometimes wish you could stand the tree back up and try something a little different on it to see how the results differ?


----------



## paccity

OregonSawyer said:


> Is it just me or do you guys sometimes wish you could stand the tree back up and try something a little different on it to see how the results differ?


 
mostly after i skrewed it up the first time.:biggrin:


----------



## Metals406

I call every tree, my "Learning Tree."


----------



## bitzer

OregonSawyer said:


> Is it just me or do you guys sometimes wish you could stand the tree back up and try something a little different on it to see how the results differ?


 
Honestly I'd like to test out all kinds of different things in order to see what different results I would get. 

Thats what hangers are for I guess. Plenty of time to think about what you did wrong and the punishment that goes with it. haha.


----------



## bitzer

bigskyjake said:


> whoa that soft dutchman is far out, how far back do you go with the cuts, also do you just keep doing the horizontal cuts until it's leaning enough and then start in on the back?


 
I've messed around with the soft dutch hundreds (probably approaching thousands) of times. I started trying it on small trees and tried many different things while learning the results. I've pinched saws too many times and have also lost a few trees over sideways. Cleaning up hangers is a pita. Things get ugly real quick. 

Its all feel. I saw back until I feel the kerf start to tighten and then pull out quick. If the kerf does not start to tighten up when you think it should its time for plan b. I've also recut kerfs after the tree sat down to open it up again when they have a lot of side lean. Like I said though, the wood has got to hold. There comes a point when there really is no thinking involved. Its not like step 1, step 2, step 3....... 

I have never used this face on softwood although I may get a chance next week.


----------



## forestryworks

Metals406 said:


> I call every tree, my "Learning Tree."


 
Hopefully they all are.


----------



## Gologit

OregonSawyer said:


> Is it just me or do you guys sometimes wish you could stand the tree back up and try something a little different on it to see how the results differ?


 
Oh yeah ! Especially after you splatter one.


----------



## paccity

Gologit said:


> Oh yeah ! Especially after you splatter one.


 
makin toothpicks dosn't make some people happy.


----------



## Metals406

Gologit said:


> Oh yeah ! Especially after you splatter one.


 
Power Bucking! 


What Ol Bob isn't saying, is that he's so good, he can bust'em where they need to be cut anyway. 

He just eyeballs the sort list, and goes to town.


----------



## OregonSawyer

paccity said:


> makin toothpicks dosn't make some people happy.


 
'Cept for people that just ate corn! :msp_biggrin:


----------



## Gologit

Metals406 said:


> Woah, easy grasshopper. Them are advanced cuts that can land you in a casket without proper instruction. :msp_mellow:
> 
> All in good time.


 
Jake, this is good advice. Forestryworks said it right, too. If you do the fancy cuts right you can make the tree do some amazing things.

But if you screw up a fancy cut you're very apt to have a disaster on your hands. And it's usually a disaster that happens fast in ways you couldn't predict.

Ask me how I know. :msp_wink:


----------



## Gologit

Metals406 said:


> Power Bucking!
> 
> 
> What Ol Bob isn't saying, is that he's so good, he can bust'em where they need to be cut anyway.
> 
> He just eyeballs the sort list, and goes to town.


 
Hey now ! I'm gonna remember that excuse. I'll probably get to use it, too. Maybe tomorrow.

You kids play nice...1;30 wakeup for me.


----------



## frigeants

*Amazing Capture*

You did a great capture on this.


----------



## paccity

Gologit said:


> Hey now ! I'm gonna remember that excuse. I'll probably get to use it, too. Maybe tomorrow.
> 
> You kids play nice...1;30 wakeup for me.


 
be safe. hope the weather gods smile on you.


----------



## Sport Faller

Metals406 said:


> Power Bucking!
> 
> 
> What Ol Bob isn't saying, is that he's so good, he can bust'em where they need to be cut anyway.
> 
> He just eyeballs the sort list, and goes to town.


 
hahaha, I power bucked a Spruce yesterday that was getting dumped for camping wood, I'm pretty sure I rolled at least 75% of the tree down to the truck in 4 foot peices (ok, it was a little punky but Spruce seems like it rots within like 45 minutes of getting it's first orange needle)


----------



## Metals406

bigskyjake said:


> hahaha, I power bucked a Spruce yesterday that was getting dumped for camping wood, I'm pretty sure I rolled at least 75% of the tree down to the truck in 4 foot peices (ok, it was a little punky but Spruce seems like it rots within like 45 minutes of getting it's first orange needle)




See, the tree was helping ya out! 

Spruce (depending) can have a horrible rotten core, and green needles!

What in tarnation were you cutting spruce for anyway? It's horrible firewood don't ya know.


----------



## Metals406

Gologit said:


> Hey now ! I'm gonna remember that excuse. I'll probably get to use it, too. Maybe tomorrow.
> 
> You kids play nice...1;30 wakeup for me.


 
Good night ya old timberbeast!! Be safe and profitable tomorrow. . . Oh wait, you're a logger - scratch profitable.


----------



## Sport Faller

Metals406 said:


> See, the tree was helping ya out!
> 
> Spruce (depending) can have a horrible rotten core, and green needles!
> 
> What in tarnation were you cutting spruce for anyway? It's horrible firewood don't ya know.


 
not too mention that if you're in the woods and you even fart, 3-5 spruce blow down

I figured it wouldn't be too bad for camp wood, it was close to town, and it was my B-day and I had to get my fall on


----------



## OregonSawyer

bigskyjake said:


> I had to get my fall on


 
:hmm3grin2orange:

Pics???


----------



## Sport Faller

OregonSawyer said:


> :hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> Pics???


 
this thing was most definately not worth busting out the camera, funky spruce with an ok-ish stump and a booming 8" dbh :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## OregonSawyer

Wait... You _limbed_ a spruce?


----------



## Metals406

OregonSawyer said:


> Wait... You _limbed_ a spruce?


 
I know! I'm getting the heebie-jeebies thinking about it too! 

Poky limbed sons a guns!


----------



## Sport Faller

OregonSawyer said:


> Wait... You _limbed_ a spruce?


 
had my goggles on so I only got about 17 splinters in the rest of my face and arms, limbing a spruce reminds me of the flourescent lightbulb fights my brother and I had as kids


----------



## OregonSawyer

Yeah they are! I was cleaning up 4 Sitka's in the front yard the other day. My god, those needles are a pain. Literally!


----------



## paccity

try wadeing in to a monkey puzzle tree, it's like conertia wire.


----------



## Sport Faller

paccity said:


> try wadeing in to a monkey puzzle tree, it's like conertia wire.


 
that sounds like a tree from Dr. Suess, whazza monkey puzzle tree?


----------



## forestryworks

bigskyjake said:


> that sounds like a tree from Dr. Suess, whazza monkey puzzle tree?


 
a tree that puzzles monkeys when they attempt to climb one.

the monkeys can be heard yelling WTF?!?!?!


----------



## Metals406

paccity said:


> try wadeing in to a monkey puzzle tree, it's like conertia wire.


 
Yeah, what the hell are those. . . And how do we avoid them?


----------



## paccity

there native to chile. you get them around here residentialy, every thing is covered with blade type needles. sharp as heck. google it to see what they look like. the tallest i've done is about 65' ,limbs to the ground.


----------



## Metals406

forestryworks said:


> a tree that puzzles monkeys when they attempt to climb one.
> 
> the monkeys can be heard yelling WTF?!?!?!


 
:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Sport Faller

forestryworks said:


> a tree that puzzles monkeys when they attempt to climb one.
> 
> the monkeys can be heard yelling WTF?!?!?!


 
what about poop throwing..... is there poop throwing :msp_biggrin:


----------



## Sport Faller

paccity said:


> there native to chile. you get them around here residentialy, every thing is covered with blade type needles. sharp as heck. google it to see what they look like. the tallest i've done is about 65' ,limbs to the ground.


 
whoa, I'm pretty sure the boulevard into Hell is lined with those


----------



## forestryworks

bigskyjake said:


> what about poop throwing..... is there poop throwing :msp_biggrin:


 
that reminds me of the "who flung poo?" shirt a friend of mine had in high school.


----------



## Metals406

paccity said:


> there native to chile. you get them around here residentialy, every thing is covered with blade type needles. sharp as heck. google it to see what they look like. the tallest i've done is about 65' ,limbs to the ground.


 
That ain't no tree!!! That's a damn furry straight razor! :jawdrop:


----------



## forestryworks

bigskyjake said:


> whoa, I'm pretty sure the boulevard into Hell is lined with those


 
It's also lined with stumps that have sloping backcuts :bang:


----------



## Sport Faller

forestryworks said:


> It's also lined with stumps that have sloping backcuts :bang:


 
Satan's hell on wheels with the Wild Thing


----------



## paccity

i think there pretty cool lookin, as long as u don't have to deal with them.


----------



## OregonSawyer

Jameson,

Just out of curiosity, did you go to Oklahoma State for Forestry? If so, what degree did you get there?

The reason I ask is because I am working towards a Forest Engineering/Civil Engineering degree and was wondering if you had gone through some similar curriculum that I will be...


----------



## dave k

Monkey Puzzle = hardship !! we get some big examples over here and in fact they grow far better outside of Chile in a damper climate, they only get to about 45' in Chile 
Im still wading through some storm damage in between sun/showers/hot/cold weather we have at the moment just like you fella's that side of the Atlantic.


----------



## wowzers

OregonSawyer said:


> Jameson,
> 
> Just out of curiosity, did you go to Oklahoma State for Forestry? If so, what degree did you get there?
> 
> The reason I ask is because I am working towards a Forest Engineering/Civil Engineering degree and was wondering if you had gone through some similar curriculum that I will be...


 
Are you going to OSU?


----------



## Samlock

*Flat & small*

Can't get much flatter than this, can it? Clearcutting a field left alone for a few years. The wood will go into a chipper.

[video=youtube;K-EXukSA9lo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-EXukSA9lo[/video]

Almost like sitting behind the desk.


----------



## ChrisF

Oh man, what's that thing you have mounted your saw to? Looks awesome for work like that. Never seen anything like it, would love to see some pics of it.


----------



## OregonSawyer

wowzers said:


> Are you going to OSU?


 
Not right now. That is the plan though... I have already been accepted, but there are still more engineering and physics courses available to me at the junior college ($) so I won't be up there til the '12-'13 year.


----------



## Samlock

ChrisF said:


> Oh man, what's that thing you have mounted your saw to? Looks awesome for work like that. Never seen anything like it, would love to see some pics of it.



Chris, some pictures and info on the manufacturer's site: .APURITUOTE.


----------



## Metals406

Item No.: ATKKKM
Price: 265.00 EUR

Apuri® Felling Handle, tall model 
is an auxiliary handle for chainsaws, which is intended for directed felling of energy timber, trimmed tall slender trees, and small trees. 

It is not necessary to crouch or bend over to grab the saw when harvesting the energy wood. When sawing, the left hand is free to guide the falling tree or to hold it up for potential vertical transport. 
An additional handle makes forest management tasks easier and more diverse: 
● felling and use of chainsaw without having to bend over, 
● two squats are avoided with every tree 
● whole tree felling without pruning, 
● controlled tree felling using the left hand for providing support. 
Suitable also for clearing and sapling management, such as clearing along ditches, sapling trimming, and felling fibre trees. 
Is secured to the saw using quick-release locking mechanisms, which allows installation and removal to be quick and easy. 
Two models (tall model is 70mm taller): 
● regular model for users that are less than 185 cm in height and 
● tall model for users that are taller than 185 cm. If uncertain of which model to take, it is safer to select the regular model. 
The felling handle has diverse adjustment options. 
The unit fits most common chainsaw brands and models. 
Tested by the Finnish Work Efficiency Institute. 

If your saw is a Stihl MS 200, MS 192, or MS 260, be sure to also order the MS fitting (throttle lever).


----------



## forestryworks

OregonSawyer said:


> Not right now. That is the plan though... I have already been accepted, but there are still more engineering and physics courses available to me at the junior college ($) so I won't be up there til the '12-'13 year.


 
That's good, get all your basic courses out of the way before transferring.


----------



## wowzers

OregonSawyer said:


> Not right now. That is the plan though... I have already been accepted, but there are still more engineering and physics courses available to me at the junior college ($) so I won't be up there til the '12-'13 year.


 
That's what I did. I got a tech degree in forestry then went and got a bachelors. It was a lot cheaper for me even being on the GI bill and the quality of instruction was light years better at the two year school. I will say I have heard a lot of good things about that school. Funny though cause now I sling rigging.


----------



## OregonSawyer

Haha it's funny because I feel like a lot of people that go to school for Forestry actually have a logging/woodproducts mindset. They would just as soon work for a logging outfit as they would the Forest Service etc... But having that degree gives you a little bit to fall back on if times get *real* tight and you end up getting squeezed out of a job. 

At least that is my primary reason for going after the "Double Degree". Civil Engineering work seems to be fairly readily available around these parts. Plus the work is also outside (off and on). Not to mention one extra year of school for a second bachelors in engineering seems a pretty fair trade-off in my eyes.


----------



## wowzers

Yeah, I quickly found that out. That and I thought it was crazy to be supervising a logging job having never logged. I look at forestry as my retirement plan now.


----------



## OregonSawyer

That's another thing I am excited about in regards to OSU. They have a "Student Logging Training Program" that is pretty much set up so that students who want to learn the "working side" of a logging outfit have an opportunity to do so. They have a small "yarder", cat, shovels etc... Students are able to learn all of the jobs throughout the operation to give well rounded perspective.


----------



## forestryworks

OregonSawyer said:


> That's another thing I am excited about in regards to OSU. They have a "Student Logging Training Program" that is pretty much set up so that students who want to learn the "working side" of a logging outfit have an opportunity to do so. They have a small "yarder", cat, shovels etc... Students are able to learn all of the jobs throughout the operation to give well rounded perspective.


 
Any serious forestry school should have a student logging crew in my opinion.

As far as I know OSU is the only school to do so.

UIdaho used to but they don't have a logging crew or even offer a Forest Operations degree anymore :monkey:


----------



## palogger

I know a few of the schools in our area have those classes


----------



## Hddnis

I guess a program like that is better than nothing, but to really learn the working side of logging you need to do it as a job. 



Mr. HE


----------



## forestryworks

Hddnis said:


> I guess a program like that is better than nothing, but to really learn the working side of logging you need to do it as a job.
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. HE


 
But if you can't get a job, then that is the next best thing.


----------



## Hddnis

forestryworks said:


> But if you can't get a job, then that is the next best thing.





True that.


Kind of like the dude ranches.:hmm3grin2orange:




Mr. HE


----------



## paccity

View attachment 186738
theres a few highschools that still have f&l programs. we have an invite competion, demonstration at the logging museum i belong to. it's nice to see them get in to it so young.


----------



## RandyMac

Here is another example of logging information. My membership lapsed, need to re-up soon. The Railroad section is interesting, I have worked with Woody Murphy in the past.

Timber Heritage Association - Humboldt Co. History

http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine/showthread.php?t=82575


----------



## paccity

thats cool randy, to bad i have to miss the monthly board meetting on sat. wonder were i'll be.


----------



## OregonSawyer

Hddnis said:


> I guess a program like that is better than nothing, but to really learn the working side of logging you need to do it as a job.
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. HE


 
Agreed. But as Jameson said, it's the next best thing. For people in school it truly is the best opportunity though. In the program they are actually harvesting trees from the dedicated University Forest. It is not just a mock set-up demonstration. You work (part-time during the school year, full time during the summer) for one year.

Here's a link for more info if anybody wants to check it out...
Welcome to the OSU Student Logging Training Program


----------



## paccity

they do have a great hands on program. dunn forest is not that far from me.


----------



## Joe46

paccity said:


> View attachment 186738
> theres a few highschools that still have f&l programs. we have an invite competion, demonstration at the logging museum i belong to. it's nice to see them get in to it so young.


 We have a dept in the agency I now work for that insures school districts around the state of Wash. When their loss control people found out that Forks High School had a logging program they about had coronaries. I made the comment to one of them that the kids could easily be 3rd to 5th generation loggers. Should have talked to the wall:bang:


----------



## paccity

Joe46 said:


> We have a dept in the agency I now work for that insures school districts around the state of Wash. When their loss control people found out that Forks High School had a logging program they about had coronaries. I made the comment to one of them that the kids could easily be 3rd to 5th generation loggers. Should have talked to the wall:bang:


 
true, the highschool programs are dropping like flies. it is a shame . were down to just a couple of schools doing the show this year.school dist, support isn't what it was. when i was in school there were quite a few teachers that logged durring the summer break. different times i guess.


----------



## slowp

OregonSawyer said:


> That's another thing I am excited about in regards to OSU. They have a "Student Logging Training Program" that is pretty much set up so that students who want to learn the "working side" of a logging outfit have an opportunity to do so. They have a small "yarder", cat, shovels etc... Students are able to learn all of the jobs throughout the operation to give well rounded perspective.


 
But when we spent an afternoon out setting chokers at OSU, it was different than real life. When our intermediate support tree pulled over, we got told, "We're done for the day."

I told this story to a Gypo with a yarder. I was there when the Gypo's intermediate support tree pulled over. He mentioned that maybe they ought to go do the OSU method, and just go home.

I only went to OSU for a semester. They had a quickie, cram course in Forest Engineering for folks who were working. The Forest Service used to send the majority of people to it, but there were also folks from other countries who were sent to it. We had a guy from Malaysia in our class. 

The other not quite real life situation was that the trees were felled perfectly. They were angled towards the skyline corridor. Easy to pull out without scarring any of the leave trees.


----------



## OregonSawyer

Thanks for the first hand insight! It was my impression that the students were also the fallers? Perhaps I was understanding it wrong...? Overall did you find the time spent beneficial?


----------



## Cedarkerf

paccity said:


> true, the highschool programs are dropping like flies. it is a shame . were down to just a couple of schools doing the show this year.school dist, support isn't what it was. when i was in school there were quite a few teachers that logged durring the summer break. different times i guess.


 
Back in the day we had a high school foerstry program 2 hours a day basically logging 101. Wed take trees out of peoples yards next to their houses, learned scaling,cruising,yarding methods falling methods i dont know if they still have it or not.


----------



## slowp

OregonSawyer said:


> Thanks for the first hand insight! It was my impression that the students were also the fallers? Perhaps I was understanding it wrong...? Overall did you find the time spent beneficial?



I was in the quickie cram course. Not the real school course. The falling had already been done by somebody. We took turns setting chokers for only one afternoon. The school was terrified of getting somebody hurt. 

I learned more by asking questions (probably annoying them) of the rigging crews down in the brush. One day, I took pity on a lone guy, who was either in his 60s or approaching them, and started pulling rigging. Then setting chokers for the morning. I drew the line at taking control of the talkie tooter. I did learn some things like it is hard to see if every tree has paint on it or not, and it is easy to pull over little cedars. 

The young guys were on the landing and were making fun of the geriatric crew. 

Setting chokers is like yoga. I was stiff and sore before and doing all the contorting to get the chokers around the logs sure loosened those sore muscles up--so think of it as yoga.


----------



## madhatte

forestryworks said:


> Any serious forestry school should have a student logging crew in my opinion.
> 
> As far as I know OSU is the only school to do so.
> 
> UIdaho used to but they don't have a logging crew or even offer a Forest Operations degree anymore :monkey:



Couple of my friends came from the old UI program. They are among the most competent cruisers I have ever known. I'm pretty OK, but these guys are freaking _Jedi._


----------



## wowzers

madhatte said:


> Couple of my friends came from the old UI program. They are among the most competent cruisers I have ever known. I'm pretty OK, but these guys are freaking _Jedi._


 
I think a lot has changed. I learned all my on the ground stuff at tech school and through work. UI wanted to focus on enviro stuff. The cruising class we had was kind of a joke. But the old hands like your talking about are darn sharp.


----------



## Rounder

bitzer said:


> Hey Sam can't wait to see some pics!
> 
> 
> Nice pics.
> Wish I'd of brought the camera. Cutting a house log sale. Big ####ing dead ####ing red fir. Gotta side hill the nasty bastards. Last tree of the day was 36"x41" on the stump. Big for Montana. Completely sap rotted, heart rotted peice of junk. Checked too. Not a house log in it. They wanted it down though. Did make a nice sound when it hit the ground.
> 
> Hope you all are well - Sam


----------



## coastalfaller

*Here's one for the springboard forum*

Here's one taken last week, not a bad sized stick!View attachment 186920


----------



## rodeo

coastal...now that's a friggen cool pic...


----------



## mdavlee

Here's your picture coastal.


----------



## Sport Faller

whoa, that's sweet


----------



## forestryworks

How much defect was in that thing?


----------



## coastalfaller

forestryworks said:


> How much defect was in that thing?


 
Sound as a nut!! $$$$ lol


----------



## forestryworks

coastalfaller said:


> Sound as a nut!! $$$$ lol


 
Hell yeah!


----------



## 056 kid

Sweet tree, but your saw is pointed the wrong direction! Must have been a double?


----------



## coastalfaller

mdavlee said:


> Here's your picture coastal.


 
thank you sir!


----------



## coastalfaller

056 kid said:


> Sweet tree, but your saw is pointed the wrong direction! Must have been a double?


 
Haha! you got 'er! They were each just under 7ft across the but.


----------



## mdavlee

You're welcome. Post pictures whenever you want to. You always seems to have great ones.


----------



## nw axe man

Great picture. Keep them coming. We all appreciate the essence of yesteryears industry in the big woods. Every time I see a nice picture like this I'm reminded of how fortunate I am to have been able to experience the joy of working in timber like that. There's no occupation that I could do that would bring back that feeling of pride of doing a job well in such a demanding business. Keep it up.


----------



## ChrisF

Well this is awkward. Felled a relatively decent poplar a couple of days ago and wanted to post a pic, but uh... it feels miniscule now next to that absolutely badass pic coastal posted!

Anyway, here it is anyway. (First poplar I've ever felled btw, and noticed it needed a thicker hinge than I'm used to from other threes.)


----------



## bitzer

Awesome pic Coastal, that is some badass stuff! Looks like fun. 



Nice pic too though Chris! I know what you mean about trying to follow those kind of pics.


----------



## RandyMac

Killer Cedar CF, love the board action.

Not to worry Chris, you get to cut whatever is around, there are few tree snobs here.


----------



## Gologit

RandyMac said:


> Killer Cedar CF, love the board action.
> 
> Not to worry Chris, you get to cut whatever is around, there are few tree snobs here.


 
Yup.


----------



## coastalfaller

ChrisF said:


> Well this is awkward. Felled a relatively decent poplar a couple of days ago and wanted to post a pic, but uh... it feels miniscule now next to that absolutely badass pic coastal posted!
> 
> Anyway, here it is anyway. (First poplar I've ever felled btw, and noticed it needed a thicker hinge than I'm used to from other threes.)


 
Like what they said, Chris! No worries, most of us here just love falling timber, no matter how big or small or how nice or nasty! Please post away! And how NW Axeman put it, it's more than just a job.


----------



## dave k

Thanks Chris and Coastal for the pics and like the others said felling is felling as long as it's working timber thats the best bit.
The estate where I'm working at the moment is clearfelling a small parcel of Spruce so I wandered down to them yesterday to have a look at my pals newest machines, the aircon cabs did look good !


----------



## bitzer

Small thinning job long overdue. Orders: take every other one while minimizing damage to future stand of hardwood. I said, "I don't know that I'll be able to take every other. Maybe every two, but I'll give er." 

Heres the layout, some damn fool planted these Mac-Pines a little tight. my axe handle is about 20". Also most are southbound leaning and limb weighted, but are headed north. Grape vines and limb-lock galore. My wedges were "re-conditioned" daily. 






I edited the crap out of these so as not to bore you guys too much.


I could not get this tree to lift. I pounded a double stack for a while and would make progess on one wedge while the other spit out. Very sappy. I thought about throwin some chips on them, but jackin seemed an easier option. All of the limb weight and lean was opposite the lay. The one on the right had its hinge cut up to roll off the stump. The two I have cut and the next one over to the right had vines all over them. I cut up what I could, but man what a pita! BTW I cut highways for my escape routes on this job!
[video=youtube;zhv3O0HDzUU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhv3O0HDzUU[/video]

The best laid plans.... What a little limb-lock and a slight breeze can do. I knew it was going to be tight between the crowns of nearby trees, but I thought I could swing er through. It was going, but a little brushing of limbs killed it. I brought this one around about 150 degrees. I was shootin for more like 180. The last bit of cutting was wishful thinking on my part I think, hoping I had more wood to cut when I saw the way it was going. Looking at it now I could have used a deeper face and more holding wood on my side. Learning, learning, always learning. And testing. The lay actually worked out for skidding, but I toasted some little maples I wanted to save. If I was making money out of this wood I would have played it safe and jacked it. It would help if I was out there everyday grinding it out. 
[video=youtube;miOutvAw38g]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miOutvAw38g[/video]

If any of you regulars see anything I could improve on please let me know! Seriously! I take criticism well. I've never cut with anyone who really knows what the hell they are doing. It's all experience and what I've picked up from the regulars on here. Thanks. BTW I know I need corks! These are the slipperiest stems I have ever walked. Yeah I know this is good ground and its only part of one tree, but if you guys see anything let me know! Thanks!
[video=youtube;_tNMgcK6Vng]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tNMgcK6Vng[/video]





View attachment 187309
View attachment 187310


----------



## Samlock

Nice set of pics & vids, Bitzer! Some ugly looking pines you got there. I'm surprised to hear you are an autodidact! That makes me to appreciate your performance even more.

If you start to get problems with your back some of these days, I suggest you start limbing by the side of the stem, not walking on it. I mean, that way you don't have to bend your back and you can lay the weight of the saw both on the stem and on your feet instead of the backbone. I admit, it's PITA to stumble on the ground.

I need to try that soft face some of these days.

Sam


----------



## nw axe man

ChrisF said:


> Well this is awkward. Felled a relatively decent poplar a couple of days ago and wanted to post a pic, but uh... it feels miniscule now next to that absolutely badass pic coastal posted!
> 
> Anyway, here it is anyway. (First poplar I've ever felled btw, and noticed it needed a thicker hinge than I'm used to from other threes.)


 You know, it's different in every part of the world. Yes, there's big trees to cut here in the PNW and there's some very good fallers. I would think the biggest thing to think about is doing the very best job you can do and be professional where ever you are. I agree with Gologit, there are very few snobs on this site. There are, however, a lot of encouragers here. I appreciate all the pics that are sent here, both of larger trees and smaller trees being felled. Don't feel bad about sending pics of your nicer trees especially when it appears that you know what you're doing. We all enjoy them.


----------



## bitzer

Samlock said:


> Nice set of pics & vids, Bitzer! Some ugly looking pines you got there. I'm surprised to hear you are an autodidact! That makes me to appreciate your performance even more.
> 
> If you start to get problems with your back some of these days, I suggest you start limbing by the side of the stem, not walking on it. I mean, that way you don't have to bend your back and you can lay the weight of the saw both on the stem and on your feet instead of the backbone. I admit, it's PITA to stumble on the ground.
> 
> I need to try that soft face some of these days.
> 
> 
> Sam



Hey thanks! Yeah even though I didn't pull that one all the way around I figured I put the effort into making the clip I could at least show it. Usually once you start in on the back cut you see movement of the top. Oh well. Thats about as tight of a spot I've ever tried this face on. Now I know. Wide open is best. I just need bigger trees so I can solve that back thing!


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## nw axe man

View attachment 187325
View attachment 187326
View attachment 187327
View attachment 187328
View attachment 187329
Here's a few pics taken the week before Memorial day in central Ore. I'm doing a demo tree for a class using some short bar technique that can be used on larger trees for C class fallers. I'll have to post the rest of the sequence on another post as this one didn't have enough room on it.


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## nw axe man

View attachment 187340
View attachment 187341
View attachment 187342
View attachment 187343
These are the rest of the series of shots of a nice Ponderosa pine that leaned over a $100,000 outhouse. For some reason they didn't want it on top of the crapper. Imagine that. It was a real heavy leaner and I did manage to pull it away from the outhouse. If it hadn't been a demo tree I would have used a humboldt undercut and use a Dunbar on it to hold it to the stump longer. As it turned out I didn't need it. Love that pine. Cuts like butter and smells so good. Just wish I could have taken it home to my mill.


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## Metals406




----------



## Metals406




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## Metals406

nw axe man said:


> If it hadn't been a demo tree I would have used a humboldt undercut and use a Dunbar on it to hold it to the stump longer. As it turned out I didn't need it. Love that pine. Cuts like butter and smells so good. Just wish I could have taken it home to my mill.


 
What's this Dunbar you speak of?


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## madhatte

Ah, you make it look so easy!


----------



## nw axe man

Metals406 said:


> What's this Dunbar you speak of?


 This is what may be called a "sizwheel" that I've read about on some of these threads.
I've know about it for years and have used it very successfully on both hardwoods and softwoods. One of the first times I used it I had about a 4' oldgrowth fir that I had to pull around. It worked so well it went much further up the hill and I busted it all up.
I don't like to use a dutchman, rather, I like to estimate the downhill lean and use that amount to gauge the distance out to where the top of the tree will hit and aim that much higher. That way you aren't trying to put a tree into a smaller undercut, which is what you're doing when you leave a dutchman in the undercut. This puts undue strain on the upper holding wood causing it to break off too soon. The first pic is of one tree while the others are of one that leaned incredibly downhill over a brand new bridge that was under construction. Just before they placed the bridge they looked up the hill and realized that when this one fell it would take out the bridge. It works very well.
I believe the name "Dunbar" is from a gentleman in southern Oregon that came up with it. I'm sure others have figured it out also but this is where the name supposedly came from.


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## nw axe man

madhatte said:


> Ah, you make it look so easy!


 
After this many years I'd better be able to make something look easy. Either that or pick blueberries.


----------



## Metals406

nw axe man said:


> This is what may be called a "sizwheel" that I've read about on some of these threads.
> I've know about it for years and have used it very successfully on both hardwoods and softwoods. One of the first times I used it I had about a 4' oldgrowth fir that I had to pull around. It worked so well it went much further up the hill and I busted it all up.
> I don't like to use a dutchman, rather, I like to estimate the downhill lean and use that amount to gauge the distance out to where the top of the tree will hit and aim that much higher. That way you aren't trying to put a tree into a smaller undercut, which is what you're doing when you leave a dutchman in the undercut. This puts undue strain on the upper holding wood causing it to break off too soon. The first pic is of one tree while the others are of one that leaned incredibly downhill over a brand new bridge that was under construction. Just before they placed the bridge they looked up the hill and realized that when this one fell it would take out the bridge. It works very well.
> I believe the name "Dunbar" is from a gentleman in southern Oregon that came up with it. I'm sure others have figured it out also but this is where the name supposedly came from.


 
WOW! Talk about maximizing holdwood! The siswheel I have seen is cut in a little differently than the Dunbar you have pictured below -- though I am personally aware of three variations of that "style" of undercut.

Awesome posts mang!


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## Gologit

Good stuff.


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## dave k

Thank you for posting those pics of the Dunbar, I have a job to do later in the year in a tight wood simlar to the job Bitzer was doing and I'm sure that I will several chances to try the cut out !
As a pal of mine said every day is a school day, you never stop learning.


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## RandyMac

Man I'll bet that was noisy.


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## nw axe man

RandyMac said:


> Man I'll bet that was noisy.


Yeah, you can just imagine all that wood pulling out of the stump and the noise it made. If you have any good holding wood at all this is sure a good method of pulling trees around. There were about 12 people there watching this, some of them loggers. None of them could believe how this held to the stump. The tree had at least 5 fortys in it. I'm looking for a pic that shows the downhill lean but can't seem to find it on my home computer. When I get to work I'll post it then. You're pretty close to southern Ore. Have you ever heard of this guy Ray Dunbar?


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## nw axe man

dave k said:


> Thank you for posting those pics of the Dunbar, I have a job to do later in the year in a tight wood simlar to the job Bitzer was doing and I'm sure that I will several chances to try the cut out !
> As a pal of mine said every day is a school day, you never stop learning.


 Use it, but use it wisely. As I said, this works really well. So well that you can pull them much further around than what you might want. If it hooks one up the hill you can wind up with a butt in your lap.
You're right on with the school day. When we think we know it all is when we get bit. Especially in this business. I know a few guys that fit that mode and they're always bragging about how they have this scar and that break how many times they've been hurt. Those are the ones to stay away from. They've just not got it figured out yet. I guess you might say, "don't be that guy."


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## RandyMac

No, I haven't heard of him by that name, I didn't do much of anything in Orygun.
I did however run across a few Rays in the woods, spent time with a couple.


----------



## bitzer

nw axe man said:


> This is what may be called a "sizwheel" that I've read about on some of these threads.
> I've know about it for years and have used it very successfully on both hardwoods and softwoods. One of the first times I used it I had about a 4' oldgrowth fir that I had to pull around. It worked so well it went much further up the hill and I busted it all up.
> I don't like to use a dutchman, rather, I like to estimate the downhill lean and use that amount to gauge the distance out to where the top of the tree will hit and aim that much higher. That way you aren't trying to put a tree into a smaller undercut, which is what you're doing when you leave a dutchman in the undercut. This puts undue strain on the upper holding wood causing it to break off too soon. The first pic is of one tree while the others are of one that leaned incredibly downhill over a brand new bridge that was under construction. Just before they placed the bridge they looked up the hill and realized that when this one fell it would take out the bridge. It works very well.
> I believe the name "Dunbar" is from a gentleman in southern Oregon that came up with it. I'm sure others have figured it out also but this is where the name supposedly came from.


 
Awesome pics man! You're right about the dutchman. When the subject was brought up about a year ago or so, Burvol had very similar things to say. I think he equated all of the pressure of the dutchman to a vise. Your pics of the Dunbar are what I have come to understand what the sizwheel looks like. Burvol mentioned that he'd get roots pullin out of the ground bringing them in sidehill. In high value hardwood I can't see getting away with that kind of fiber pull though. It does have awesome holding power and I'd love to see it on some tall wood in action!


Anytime in life when you think you've got the bull by the nuts he bites you in ass. School time can get ugly in the woods. 


Honestly for the regulars on here that really know their stuff I'd be honored to pack their gear. I make 50-70% of my living with a saw in my hands depending on the time of year or the frequency of jobs I can rein in. I've been doing it for 8 years now and I would not put myself in the category of pro and even if I pick up a full time gig that I'm hounding around for I still don't think I could ever call myself that. Everyday I learn how much I don't know.


----------



## Rounder

Got to come home from the motel last night, and start a new unit just up the road from home. Couple quick, crappy pics before the hike out. Can't tell in the pic, but the fir are really nice. About 1/3-1/2 have to be quartered down the hill so's I can pull a log off them. Got to keep the hookers and yarder man happy.

Oh, yep I do have to put the raised backcut on the stump. ####ing OSHA/ work comp.

Moose #### everywhere, maybe I'll trip over a nice shed. Almost ate dirt last week when I stepped on a nice 6 point elk shed, lol.
Hope you all are well. Out to the shop for me - Sam

View attachment 187401
View attachment 187402


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## Metals406

mtsamloggit said:


> Got to come home from the motel last night, and start a new unit just up the road from home. Couple quick, crappy pics before the hike out. Can't tell in the pic, but the fir are really nice. About 1/3-1/2 have to be quartered down the hill so's I can pull a log off them. Got to keep the hookers and yarder man happy.
> 
> Oh, yep I do have to put the raised backcut on the stump. ####ing OSHA/ work comp.
> 
> Moose #### everywhere, maybe I'll trip over a nice shed. Almost ate dirt last week when I stepped on a nice 6 point elk shed, lol.
> Hope you all are well. Out to the shop for me - Sam


 









Looks like some decent wood for sure Sam! Glad the new gig seems to be going good.


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## paccity

RandyMac said:


> Man I'll bet that was noisy.


 
banshee of the woods.


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## nw axe man

Here's the tree that I used the Dunbar on. As you can see it had a heavy drag down the hill. It's about 200' tall with lots of limb weight. I was able to pull it around so that just the top of the tree hit in the road. Not too bad for such a heavy lean. I have some videos that I might try to upload. I see we can send pics with more info on them since they've done their update. We'll see.


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## 056 kid

WOW:msp_razz:


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## RandyMac

Dang, that is a heavy lean.


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## nw axe man

I have two video clips of falling it but the system won't accept them. Too much info I guess. Since they had that upgrade I was hoping I could post them.


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## bitzer

nw axe man said:


> I have two video clips of falling it but the system won't accept them. Too much info I guess. Since they had that upgrade I was hoping I could post them.


 
You'd probably have to youtube or photobucket them. They have built in compressors to make the file smaller. 

Swinging that fir is some pretty impressive stuff! That thing is out there! Makes anything I've ever done look like peanuts. Thanks for sharing!


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## hammerlogging

mtsamloggit said:


> Got to come home from the motel last night, and start a new unit just up the road from home. Couple quick, crappy pics before the hike out. Can't tell in the pic, but the fir are really nice. About 1/3-1/2 have to be quartered down the hill so's I can pull a log off them. Got to keep the hookers and yarder man happy.
> 
> Oh, yep I do have to put the raised backcut on the stump. ####ing OSHA/ work comp.
> 
> Moose #### everywhere, maybe I'll trip over a nice shed. Almost ate dirt last week when I stepped on a nice 6 point elk shed, lol.
> Hope you all are well. Out to the shop for me - Sam
> 
> View attachment 187401
> View attachment 187402


 
Looks Great! Best to you.


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## nw axe man

mtsamloggit said:


> Got to come home from the motel last night, and start a new unit just up the road from home. Couple quick, crappy pics before the hike out. Can't tell in the pic, but the fir are really nice. About 1/3-1/2 have to be quartered down the hill so's I can pull a log off them. Got to keep the hookers and yarder man happy.
> 
> Oh, yep I do have to put the raised backcut on the stump. ####ing OSHA/ work comp.
> 
> Moose #### everywhere, maybe I'll trip over a nice shed. Almost ate dirt last week when I stepped on a nice 6 point elk shed, lol.
> Hope you all are well. Out to the shop for me - Sam
> 
> View attachment 187401
> View attachment 187402


Those are nice fir. No deduct in those at all. Nice fast, fun timber. Do you have to limb three sides?


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## forestryworks

mtsamloggit said:


> Got to come home from the motel last night, and start a new unit just up the road from home. Couple quick, crappy pics before the hike out. Can't tell in the pic, but the fir are really nice. About 1/3-1/2 have to be quartered down the hill so's I can pull a log off them. Got to keep the hookers and yarder man happy.
> 
> Oh, yep I do have to put the raised backcut on the stump. ####ing OSHA/ work comp.
> 
> Moose #### everywhere, maybe I'll trip over a nice shed. Almost ate dirt last week when I stepped on a nice 6 point elk shed, lol.
> Hope you all are well. Out to the shop for me - Sam]


 
What kind of marking system is going on there?


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## Metals406

nw axe man said:


> Here's the tree that I used the Dunbar on. As you can see it had a heavy drag down the hill. It's about 200' tall with lots of limb weight. I was able to pull it around so that just the top of the tree hit in the road. Not too bad for such a heavy lean. I have some videos that I might try to upload. I see we can send pics with more info on them since they've done their update. We'll see.


 
You ain't a kidding about lean!! That'd be a tough one to pull over to the side.


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## Gologit

nw axe man said:


> You're right on with the school day. When we think we know it all is when we get bit. Especially in this business. I know a few guys that fit that mode and they're always bragging about how they have this scar and that break how many times they've been hurt. Those are the ones to stay away from. They've just not got it figured out yet. I guess you might say, "don't be that guy."


 
Yup. Usually the loudest guy is the weakest link. Most of the really good fallers I know are humble and not apt to brag it up. Their work says everything about them that you need to know.

And just from personal experience...every time you get to thinking that you're pretty hot with a saw some old tree shows you that you're not.


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## Rounder

nw axe man said:


> Those are nice fir. No deduct in those at all. Nice fast, fun timber. Do you have to limb three sides?


 
This guy just has us limb enough for a tape path. He figures most of the limbs will be gone by the time they hit the landing, and he likes to have the stroker operators pick em up and make sure thier computers are still measuring right. Works for me. - Sam


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## Rounder

forestryworks said:


> What kind of marking system is going on there?


 
Jameson, this is a state sale, marked to leave. They do 4 vertical lines around the bole, and use 3 horizontal to denote the boundarys. Hell of a lot better than the multi-colored ribbon/paint fed donkey show I was at earlier this week, lol. I like it - Sam


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## forestryworks

Hell of a tree to leave


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## hammerlogging

Last outfit I worked for (WV) I occassionally did some stand marking for us fallers and for the timbco. Usually when we started in on a new unit and were working into a new prescription. I'd mark a day or 2 worth of felling so everyone would get the look, then it was fallers select. I painted like a faller would want it, at the dismay of the boss. He showed me a quick slash mark made from a few feet away, "thats all you need". Whatever, a faller wants to be able to look throught the stand and readily SEE the marked trees (ours were usually the leave trees too). A bold slash on the downhill and uphill side. More paint, more cost, yes. Better, we sure thought so.

The NF timber I've cut has always been well marked. They don't have to buy it either though.

Speaking of which, I've asked the NF foresters about the paint, the lock box, etc.- lots of eye rolling in response


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## slowp

hammerlogging said:


> Speaking of which, I've asked the NF foresters about the paint, the lock box, etc.- lots of eye rolling in response


 
They'd have to kill you if they told you.:msp_wink: It is secret.


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## madhatte

nw axe man said:


> Here's the tree that I used the Dunbar on. As you can see it had a heavy drag down the hill. It's about 200' tall with lots of limb weight. I was able to pull it around so that just the top of the tree hit in the road. Not too bad for such a heavy lean.



HOLY WOW

I can just about almost imagine the physics that would make that possible. Would be a hell of a sight to see that thing roll around against gravity, common sense and apple pie!

ALSO: Slowp! You've already said too much!


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## nw axe man

Gologit said:


> Yup. Usually the loudest guy is the weakest link. Most of the really good fallers I know are humble and not apt to brag it up. Their work says everything about them that you need to know.
> 
> And just from personal experience...every time you get to thinking that you're pretty hot with a saw some old tree shows you that you're not.


About that old tree, I'd like to have a nickel for every time one of those "old" trees showed me how hot I wasn't. Just when you think you have all the answers some old tree changes the question. Right on.


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## RandyMac

nw axe man said:


> About that old tree, I'd like to have a nickel for every time one of those "old" trees showed me how hot I wasn't. Just when you think you have all the answers some old tree changes the question. Right on.


 
Then there are the days were trees pick a number, to get a shot at you.


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## Gologit

RandyMac said:


> Then there are the days were trees pick a number, to get a shot at you.


 
:hmm3grin2orange: Seems like it some times. That's when you find out that you really _can_ run pretty good. The fifty yard dash, with saw....senior division.


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## Gologit

hammerlogging said:


> Whatever, a faller wants to be able to look throught the stand and readily SEE the marked trees (ours were usually the leave trees too). A bold slash on the downhill and uphill side. More paint, more cost, yes. Better, we sure thought so.


 
Yup. I wish more people would key into that. They don't seem to realize that we may not fall the trees in exactly the same order as they marked them and our view angles can be a lot different.

Maybe Slowp could start a Tree Marker's School.


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## floyd

Lots of marking crews have little woods experience because they are wanna be foresters in school doing a summer job.


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## slowp

In this area, we already have the solution to whining by loggers about timber marking quality.

They do it now.

The Forest Service here no longer employs a marking crew. The contract describes what is wanted and the purchaser is responsible to make that happen. You don't have to mark it. The outcome is what is important. One retired FS guy has a part time job marking timber sales and he does an excellent job--darn near perfect. The same was true for some fallers (from Montaaaaana) who asked me to show them how, I did, and the only error I found was around a tree with BEEEEEEES painted on it. They thought it was great not to pack saws around. 

The super secret paint is still used to mark boundaries, wildlife trees, extra trees for logging and so on. The FS now saves money by not hiring markers and not having to buy so much paint, and shoved those costs on the purchasers. 

The retired FS guy taught a class of would be timber markers. I think it was sponsored by the unemployment dept. in Oregon. All the students decided it was too hard of work, and the class produced no markers.


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## forestryworks

slowp said:


> All the students decided it was too hard of work


 
Bunch of sissies.

Pretty soon going to work will be too hard of work to do.

:monkey:


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## slowp

forestryworks said:


> Bunch of sissies.
> 
> Pretty soon going to work will be too hard of work to do.
> 
> :monkey:


 
Well, I would put it as right up there with setting chokers, maybe even more of an aerobic workout. One doesn't have to carry blocks and lines around but one starts out the day with several quarts of paint...here we carried a case and thank goodness I wasn't on the marking crew here all the time. Those folks all have back problems or had at some time.

You are moving up and down all day long. I worked on steep forests and could eat anything and any amount of food and not gain any weight. In fact, since we didn't work in the winter, I'd put on weight when we stopped and then come spring, 20 pounds would fall off...that's how we worked. 

But now I wish that I knew more about logging when I was marking. I could have made things a bit easier.

The marking crew was an entry level job. 

You NEVER told anybody what you did for a living. If you were in the bars around loggers, and they found out what you did, there would be constant, "Why do you guys do this? Why did you have to do that?"

What with all the fear of the chemicals, and we marked with lead based paint back in the day, it is _The Job Nobody Wants To Do_.

I put my foot down when some wildlife crew folks wanted us timber folks to mark out their salamander buffers. They were deathly afraid of the paint. They went out and marked in hazmat type suits.

In Arizona, we all had Carpal Tunnel problems starting because in that doghair, when we were marking pulp, we were marking 700 to 800 trees per day. The powers that be would not allow Leave Tree Marking to happen. That's why I run a computer mouse with my left hand.

Definitely a good workout and hard work...around here.


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## Joe46

forestryworks said:


> Bunch of sissies.
> 
> Pretty soon going to work will be too hard of work to do.
> 
> :monkey:


 
Oh, it's been going on for years. It's called generational welfare recipients


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## nw axe man

RandyMac said:


> Then there are the days were trees pick a number, to get a shot at you.


 I've had those days when you good and well that it just wasn't your day and you'd better go home. Better to walk out and go home than to stay, fight against a tree and lose. Generally speaking when this happens you're fatigued and not thinking clearly. Been there, done that, lost my T-shirt.


----------



## nw axe man

Gologit said:


> :hmm3grin2orange: Seems like it some times. That's when you find out that you really _can_ run pretty good. The fifty yard dash, with saw....senior division.


 
I resemble that remark.


----------



## Joe46

Yup, runnin scared can take a few tenths off your 50yd times!


----------



## Greenwedge

Is this legal here? If not someone take care of me cause I'm leaving the desk and headed for Seattle to pick up my boat. This is for helping kids so I don't imagine I will get in too much trouble. Have a great weekend my friends!! Sarah Palin autographed Stihl MS 660 Chainsaw - eBay (item 250840274493 end time Jun-24-11 14:28:59 PDT)


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## madhatte

Passin' it around via FB; yer in good hands, man.


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## slowp

I'll maybe put it on the tree hugger site. Sounds like a good cause.


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## paccity

didn't wan't to start a new thread. i kinda like it.View attachment 187524


----------



## coastalfaller

paccity said:


> didn't wan't to start a new thread. i kinda like it.View attachment 187524


 
That's awesome! I have to get some of those! lol I've got bumper stickers on my crummies that say"Hug a logger.......you'll never go back to trees!"


----------



## 056 kid

there is a sticker that I don't know where to get at.

but it has a picture of a real pretty looking skidder, and the text reads.

"DITCH THE #####, LETS GO LOGGING!"

I thought that was a good one. .


----------



## 1375619cm3

Just posted some pictures of today's falls in the McCullough 
Chain Saw forum they are on the last page at this point i believe page 627 if anyone would like to see. thanks for all the great pictures just thought i would post a few of mine from today.


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## ChrisF

Posin' time!

Standing around like a tool in front of a snag I felled today. No pics of the actual falling tho, snags ain't the right time to play around, at least not for me.


----------



## Samlock

Are those pants any better than the old potato bags?


----------



## ChrisF

Samlock said:


> Are those pants any better than the old potato bags?


 
Lightyears better. No comparison, really, they're an improvement in every conceivable way.


----------



## nw axe man

They look like they'd be hot in the summer. Ever try the Labonville chaps that fit on the inside of your pants? They make the pants that they hang into but they're quite expensive. I just cut a 1" hole in the top of the chaps and hang them from my suspenders. You hardly know you're wearing them.


----------



## ChrisF

nw axe man said:


> They look like they'd be hot in the summer. Ever try the Labonville chaps that fit on the inside of your pants? They make the pants that they hang into but they're quite expensive.


 
They're not so bad, actually. They breathe, believe it or not, and they're like wearing shorts compared to the too heavy, too baggy and too thick old pants I used.

They're also very comfortable, which they should be. They were very pricy!


----------



## nw axe man

Do they provide protection all around the leg or just the front? I remember back in the eighties Stihl had come out with a line of clothing and they had pants that were supposed to give a lot of protection. Problem with them was that they were so bulky you couldn't hardly get up and down the mtns with them. We have a lot of flat ground out here. Problem is it's mostly turned up on end. Light, loose clothing is the preferred workwear just because of the excessive movements on steep ground.
Question? Is that spruce you're cutting? It looks a lot like our Engelmann spruce.


----------



## ChrisF

They protect the front, and a bit of the sides, sort of like a uh... ) around the front of the leg. They're snug-fitting and they stretch, so they're not restrictive and I don't snag them on various pieces of brush when I'm walking around.

And yeah, that's a spruce.


----------



## Meadow Beaver

nw axe man said:


> They look like they'd be hot in the summer. Ever try the Labonville chaps that fit on the inside of your pants? They make the pants that they hang into but they're quite expensive. *I just cut a 1" hole in the top of the chaps and hang them from my suspenders. You hardly know you're wearing them*.


 Tree Sling'r let me in on that trick, and I've never had any problem with them sliding around inside my pants.


----------



## nw axe man

Meadow Beaver said:


> Tree Sling'r let me in on that trick, and I've never had any problem with them sliding around inside my pants.


 
Yeah, your knees just kind of conform the chaps to the pant leg. You don't even know you have them on. Real nice in the winter time. I do like the fact that you don't get hung up on buckles in the brush. The exterior type also tend to pull down on the lower part of my back. It's probably from problems in the front, not the back. Since I've not been cutting steadily I've tended to build quite a roof over my tool shed.


----------



## Meadow Beaver

I always hated wearing chaps on the outside, I hated the buckles digging in the back of my knees and getting hung up on em.


----------



## hammerlogging

nw axe man said:


> They look like they'd be hot in the summer. Ever try the Labonville chaps that fit on the inside of your pants? They make the pants that they hang into but they're quite expensive. I just cut a 1" hole in the top of the chaps and hang them from my suspenders. You hardly know you're wearing them.



Is this instead of the snaps as on the Madsen's jeans, or are you talking about real chaps hung inside the pants? Maybe the Labonville inserts are different?


----------



## Sport Faller

hammerlogging said:


> Is this instead of the snaps as on the Madsen's jeans, or are you talking about real chaps hung inside the pants? Maybe the Labonville inserts are different?


 
I think he's talking about inserts, you'd probably need some MC Hammer parachute pants to fit real chaps on the inside


----------



## nw axe man

I'm referring to the Labonville inserts that they make the pants for. They're incorporated with snaps and a pouch to facilitate holding the chaps to the pant leg. Instead of buying the expensive pants with the snaps, I poke a hole in the top of the chaps and hang them on the inside of my pants. They do just fine and you don't even know you're wearing them. Like all chaps they get a little warm in the summer but they're tolerable and you don't feel like you're wearing another pair of pants over your jeans. I believe you can get them in different lengths for longer legs.


----------



## hammerlogging

nw axe man said:


> I'm referring to the Labonville inserts that they make the pants for. They're incorporated with snaps and a pouch to facilitate holding the chaps to the pant leg. Instead of buying the expensive pants with the snaps, I poke a hole in the top of the chaps and hang them on the inside of my pants. They do just fine and you don't even know you're wearing them. Like all chaps they get a little warm in the summer but they're tolerable and you don't feel like you're wearing another pair of pants over your jeans. I believe you can get them in different lengths for longer legs.



I wear the Madsen's version already, with the snaps, but the suspender idea is good in case I want to us them in other pants. I put a flap and some snaps in a pair of tin pants, but next pair, won't have to.


----------



## RandyMac

I thought chaps were for Montany cowboys.


----------



## floyd

Only time I cut my leg was when I was wearing chaps.


I thought chain brakes were a nuisance as well. 

I adapted.


----------



## RandyMac

I have never been cut by a moving chain, anywhere.
However, I do have a lengthy list of other little faux pas.
Not that I would admit to all of them.
I do remember stabbing myself just above the knee, with bucking spikes.
I later caught a magneto charge in the same spot, both were with the same saw.


----------



## Joe46

I was only cut once, when my 2100 kicked back on me. Just got the middle finger on my left hand. Very lucky. A lesson in not brushing out around the stump. I have however had a few humorous close calls. Like Randy I had an Alder drive a log dog into my thigh.


----------



## nw axe man

I'll have to lay claim with you on the saw cuts, too. I've never been cut either by a moving chain. Your comment about the magneto brings back a funny memory.
One very rainy day I was falling down on the South Toutle river. I was raining harder than a cow peeing on a flat rock. I was running an 090 with a 50" bar. As my choice of saw dates me, this was before the days of nice, light, fast, powerful polymer saws.
Anyway, I had an older gentleman bucking for me. He had a belly like a bowl of jello and no teeth on his upper jaw. Great guy and when he laughed everything shook.
That 090 had a spark plug cover that had been ripped and you had to be careful not to touch it. As I said, the only way I could have been wetter is if I'd been bigger. 
Apparently my chain must have been getting a little dull because as I was putting in a face cut in a nice fir I had to push on it to get where I needed to be. I stepped up to the saw and applied pressure not thinking about that plug cap. That thing lit me up like a Christmas tree. My pardner just stood there and bounced up and down laughing so hard. Those 090s packed a powerful spark for sure.


----------



## Samlock

RandyMac said:


> I thought chaps were for Montany cowboys.



I've heard San Fransisco cowboys wear them too.



> nw axe man
> 
> Do they provide protection all around the leg or just the front? I remember back in the eighties Stihl had come out with a line of clothing and they had pants that were supposed to give a lot of protection. Problem with them was that they were so bulky you couldn't hardly get up and down the mtns with them. We have a lot of flat ground out here. Problem is it's mostly turned up on end. *Light, loose clothing is the preferred workwear just because of the excessive movements on steep ground.*
> Question? Is that spruce you're cutting? It looks a lot like our Engelmann spruce.



ChrisF is a Norwegian. And Norway, that's _steep_. I wonder how they find enough flat spots to place their beer glasses the way they won't spill...


----------



## Sport Faller

RandyMac said:


> I thought chaps were for Montany cowboys.


 
only the ass-less leather ones with chains and codpiece


----------



## hammerlogging

View attachment 189207

View attachment 189208

View attachment 189209


----------



## RandyMac

HAMMERRRR!!!!!

Big tree. How did that bucking in the bind go?


----------



## hammerlogging

sloppy double posting.

View attachment 189213

View attachment 189214

View attachment 189215

View attachment 189216

View attachment 189217

Bucking in the bind, just like it when another 10' 800 bf log rolls to the bottom of the cut. 

It can get you, but I've seen plenty of better (worse) ways to get pinched.

Of course, cc's help with that bind too!


----------



## forestryworks

You lucky SOB.


----------



## 056 kid

Yes!


----------



## Sport Faller

hammerlogging said:


> View attachment 189207
> 
> View attachment 189208
> 
> View attachment 189209


 
I'd give my middle nut to have dumped that one, I thought my larch was hot stuff but that thing makes it look like a chopstick


----------



## Metals406

bigskyjake said:


> I'd give my middle nut to have dumped that one, I thought my larch was hot stuff but that thing makes it look like a chopstick


 
Middle nut? You been drinking rubbing alcohol filtered through bread?


----------



## Sport Faller

Metals406 said:


> *Middle nut*? You been drinking rubbing alcohol filtered through bread?


 
I have trouble walking some times :hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## nw axe man

hammerlogging said:


> View attachment 189207
> 
> View attachment 189208
> 
> View attachment 189209


 
Nice, flippin tree! What species is that? Looks like some type of oak. Do you get any logs beyond the fork in the top? Good one, keep em coming.


----------



## coastalfaller

Nice stick of timber, Joe!!


----------



## mdavlee

That looks like a nice poplar there Joe. How's you like the ground chains?


----------



## hammerlogging

nw axe man said:


> Nice, flippin tree! What species is that? Looks like some type of oak. Do you get any logs beyond the fork in the top? Good one, keep em coming.


 
Poplar, Tulip poplar. Its a soft hardwood, logs go mostly for interior parts on furniture, the biggest market is peelers for plywood but these are too big for that. Yes, we get wood out of the tops, usually its puplwood but in this case there are also some saw logs-- This stand has had some big diameter but that has come with some huge tops.


----------



## Samlock

hammerlogging said:


> sloppy double posting.
> 
> View attachment 189213
> 
> View attachment 189214
> 
> View attachment 189215
> 
> View attachment 189216
> 
> View attachment 189217
> 
> Bucking in the bind, just like it when another 10' 800 bf log rolls to the bottom of the cut.
> 
> It can get you, but I've seen plenty of better (worse) ways to get pinched.
> 
> Of course, cc's help with that bind too!



I'm a bit homophobic, so I don't like to give hearts to another guys. Like it anyway.

[video=youtube;WkGJQemjRF4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkGJQemjRF4[/video]


----------



## Joe46

Hmm. Coffee and Motorhead. Good as any to start The day.


----------



## Greenwedge

Here are a couple pics I took of our hooktender rigging a lift tree. This guy knows his onions. View attachment 189261
View attachment 189262
View attachment 189263
View attachment 189264


----------



## Greenwedge

Greenwedge said:


> Here are a couple pics I took of our hooktender rigging a lift tree. This guy knows his onions. View attachment 189261
> View attachment 189262
> View attachment 189263
> View attachment 189264


 
Don't know how I got the pic of the bike in there.........guess I don't know my onions!


----------



## husabud

Greenwedge said:


> Don't know how I got the pic of the bike in there.........guess I don't know my onions!


 
I must say there can't be much better than goin to work on your bike!


----------



## slowp

How do the larch/tamarack hold up? Any problems with failures?


----------



## slowp

The hooktender here, in the yellow raincoat, is the one who quoted the definition of a timber faller. These guys were good. They just hadn't rigged up a jack for many years. Now, I must go out and sneeze and get warm. I think it is 70 something outside. :msp_ohmy:

View attachment 189280


----------



## paccity

Greenwedge said:


> Here are a couple pics I took of our hooktender rigging a lift tree. This guy knows his onions. View attachment 189261
> View attachment 189262
> View attachment 189263
> View attachment 189264


 
nice old xl. 350? 500?. looks like it has that 23" front wheel. wanting to say 79/80?


----------



## Greenwedge

paccity said:


> nice old xl. 350? 500?. looks like it has that 23" front wheel. wanting to say 79/80?


 
LOL I deffinately don't know what the block is.....that is what you are asking right?...I do not know much at all about the rigging. All I know is that the hookers like the butt's toward the machine quartered in the lead of the way they will deck when you get close to the road......That's really all I have worried myself with! lol I will make it a point to find out what it is......


----------



## Greenwedge

Greenwedge said:


> LOL I deffinately don't know what the block is.....that is what you are asking right?...I do not know much at all about the rigging. All I know is that the hookers like the butt's toward the machine quartered in the lead of the way they will deck when you get close to the road......That's really all I have worried myself with! lol I will make it a point to find out what it is......


 
LMAO!!!!! The motercycle!!!!!!!LOLx1000


----------



## Greenwedge

paccity said:


> nice old xl. 350? 500?. looks like it has that 23" front wheel. wanting to say 79/80?


 
It's and xl125. Belongs to another of the cutters. LOL.....don't know what the block is!!!!!!hahahahahahahahahahah


----------



## paccity

ha! your a riot. thanks for the info. lol.


----------



## paccity

hey pat did you get my pm about a fellow faller in ak?


----------



## hammerlogging

Samlock said:


> I'm a bit homophobic, so I don't like to give hearts to another guys. Like it anyway.
> 
> [video=youtube;WkGJQemjRF4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkGJQemjRF4[/video]


 
Well, that was glorious, but if you could bring up one of those new fangled Norwegian death metal bands my brother in law showed me, I'd fell more attached to my brethren.


----------



## madhatte

hammerlogging said:


> if you could bring up one of those new fangled Norwegian death metal bands my brother in law showed me, I'd fell more attached to my brethren.


 
Continuity: this Norwegian death metal band has a lead singer rocking a Rickenbacker bass, too. 


<object width="560" height="349"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/PNUJ0l32YQw?version=3&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/PNUJ0l32YQw?version=3&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="560" height="349" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>


----------



## RandyMac

arrrgghhh!!!


----------



## RandyMac

*this is only a test, if this was a true emergency, you would be dead already*


----------



## RandyMac

To use the new scanner, give yourself two good shots to the nads

I got some of my photos back and damned few of them.


----------



## mdavlee

Glad to see you can get pictures back up Randy.


----------



## paccity

thanks for the pic's. and for swinging the thread back on coarse. for a bit.:msp_unsure:


----------



## Rounder

*Faller's Holiday*

Some friends just bought 10 acres up the Bitterroot and asked me to come out and look things over, see what needed to be done in terms of fuels reduction, and pine beetle mitigation.

Ended up tipping some brood pine (to be piled and tarped), pine stobs, and some dead fir for firewood. No rest for the wicked.

View attachment 189398

View attachment 189400

View attachment 189401


Pretty sharp lookin' 66 for a creamsickle, huh, Randy? umpkin2:

View attachment 189404


Landowner Laura, with a fancy new pruning device I made for her, she was stoked, lol.

View attachment 189405


Happy 4th - Sam


----------



## RandyMac




----------



## paccity

nice job sam, looks park like . saw workin good? and you have a great 4th to.


----------



## Metals406

Well look at the young ripped Mr. Mac! :lifter:


----------



## paccity

randy. that pic came out nice and clear. that guy looks familiar.


----------



## paccity

Metals406 said:


> Well look at the young ripped Mr. Mac! :lifter:


 
a lean mean cuttin machine. a pic of grounds keeper willy keeps coming to mind.


----------



## RandyMac

Nothing like being a kid.


Not everything goes to plan.


----------



## Cedarkerf

Nice pics Sam and Randy


----------



## Rounder

Sweet pics Randy, thanks for sharing - Sam


----------



## Rounder

paccity said:


> nice job sam, looks park like . saw workin good? and you have a great 4th to.


 
I wish I was as flawless as the saw, it makes work a pleasure - Sam


----------



## RandyMac

Nice weedeater Sam.


Rate my stump LOL.

The log on the right was from the Finger pic.


----------



## Rounder

'Bout choked on my beer, lol. Fightin' words there


----------



## RandyMac

Was I lookin' at the right picture Sam?


----------



## Rounder

Lol, I'll leave it be...Nice pics, looks like you had a good amount of respect for avoiding fiber-pull. My boss would like you. Funny how many people can't seem to figure that one out. Took a couple ass chewings for me.......I still make mistakes. Sometimes you have to get out of the way though.


----------



## paccity

looks like some old charcoal.


----------



## RandyMac

Not all trees are pretty.


----------



## RandyMac

mtsamloggit said:


> Lol, I'll leave it be...Nice pics, looks like you had a good amount of respect for avoiding fiber-pull. My boss would like you. Funny how many people can't seem to figure that one out. Took a couple ass chewings for me.......I still make mistakes. Sometimes you have to get out of the way though.


 
That squeaking sound carries, the Bullbuck can hear it over any other noise. If he hears it, you will hear about it.


----------



## paccity

RandyMac said:


> Not all trees are pretty.


 
ya. sometimes it's easier on the eyes to cull the ugly ones.


----------



## Rounder

RandyMac said:


> That squeaking sound carries, the Bullbuck can hear it over any other noise. If he hears it, you will hear about it.


 
It is a cringe inducing sound. Seems like the only time I make it is when the big boss is walking down the hill about 50 feet above me to tell me where to head to for the next day. Never ####in' fails.


----------



## RandyMac

I like smooth butts.


----------



## dave k

Thanks for the pics Randy & Sam.
I hope it's a good day for you fellas today 4 July and all that, I'm sat in the jeep 48f at 7 30am watching a Buzzard hunting out on my left and a Kestral on the right then I will be savaged alive by horse flies for the rest of the day in a bog getting a large beech out so think of me as you celebrate the day !


----------



## wyk

Rammstein is touring. Will be in February in Dublin. Mein Hertz Brennt!!!

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/WNcQ5VE1vWI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Rammstein Brennt!

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/7r6P7zdfstI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



madhatte said:


> Continuity: this Norwegian death metal band has a lead singer rocking a Rickenbacker bass, too.


----------



## wyk

dave k said:


> Thanks for the pics Randy & Sam.
> I hope it's a good day for you fellas today 4 July and all that, I'm sat in the jeep 48f at 7 30am watching a Buzzard hunting out on my left and a Kestral on the right then I will be savaged alive by horse flies for the rest of the day in a bog getting a large beech out so think of me as you celebrate the day !


 
Don't let the horseflies bite! I almost forgot it was the 4th! I need to grab me some beer and charcoal and hawtdawgs(yeah, like I'm gonna find me some hotdogs here. Maybe frankfurters...).

Happy 4th, y'all!

WYK


----------



## Metals406

I'd rather have no pull, but if a guy's gonna get some, I pick the stump.


----------



## wowzers

Greenwedge, You guys hanging lift blocks or having to run jacks? Our last strip we were running lift blocks quite a bit and pulling a ways behind them. Coopers side bags for the motor bike are awesome.


----------



## dave k

Here are a couple fo pics of todays fun and you can be sure I had a few bumps from bites going home !!
The tree is a Beech that came over in a storm some months ago, have been waiting for some time to get in on some dry ground, as you can see in one of the pics it's still pretty wet !


----------



## Greenwedge

wowzers said:


> Greenwedge, You guys hanging lift blocks or having to run jacks? Our last strip we were running lift blocks quite a bit and pulling a ways behind them. Coopers side bags for the motor bike are awesome.


 
Wowzers.....I go out of my way to make sure I never use our company's name on this site just for the fact that if I post something that I should'nt have it does not fall back on the best employer in the intire history of logging boss's! Man I'm just tickled to be working here! It's nice to be working with a bunch of go getter's! Do good work, lots of it and he damn sure pays ya for it. I cannot beleive all of those years I spent in Alaska thinking I was cutting a fat hog when the best paying job in the industry was back home! They expect allot and want er done by the book, there way or the highway, and that is just the way I like it!!!! Work Tuff pay Tuff!!! Just wanted to make sure we were on the same page as far as not saying who we work for......if you do please do not realate any of my posts to your claims. As far as the logging goes Wes has been doing lots of climbing. Just kinda depends on the line though. About mid week we will be strung out clear across the creek from where the yarder is sitting up there on the 6 mile! They will be flat out flying logs!!! I'm going to make damn sure and get some pic's of that. Don't ever tell any of them I told you this for I'll flat out deny it but I sure have a whole lot of respect for that rigging crew. They have there business wired tight! That flipping Wes is an animal. He had some super long lines to rig, humps in the middle of strips that he has to rig lift trees, not to mention that this is pole job with some of the bigges Cedar I have ever cut, and he has been getten er all out with out breaking it, staying ahead, and always smiling and positive.....My kind of guy....WoW!!!! I wrote a novel!


----------



## slowp

Greenwedge said:


> Wowzers.....I go out of my way to make sure I never use our company's name on this site just for the fact that if I post something that I should'nt have it does not fall back on the best employer in the intire history of logging boss's! Man I'm just tickled to be working here! It's nice to be working with a bunch of go getter's! Do good work, lots of it and he damn sure pays ya for it. I cannot beleive all of those years I spent in Alaska thinking I was cutting a fat hog when the best paying job in the industry was back home! They expect allot and want er done by the book, there way or the highway, and that is just the way I like it!!!! Work Tuff pay Tuff!!! Just wanted to make sure we were on the same page as far as not saying who we work for......if you do please do not realate any of my posts to your claims. As far as the logging goes Wes has been doing lots of climbing. Just kinda depends on the line though. About mid week we will be strung out clear across the creek from where the yarder is sitting up there on the 6 mile! They will be flat out flying logs!!! I'm going to make damn sure and get some pic's of that. Don't ever tell any of them I told you this for I'll flat out deny it but I sure have a whole lot of respect for that rigging crew. They have there business wired tight! That flipping Wes is an animal. He had some super long lines to rig, humps in the middle of strips that he has to rig lift trees, not to mention that this is pole job with some of the bigges Cedar I have ever cut, and he has been getten er all out with out breaking it, staying ahead, and always smiling and positive.....My kind of guy....WoW!!!! I wrote a novel!



Sounds like the kind of outfit that is a pleasure to work with. I will miss that. There is one I've had quite a bit and they are professional, correct any problems right away, and I have delivered cookies to them for it.
The hooktender will say, "We'll make it right!" and they do.  He and I climbed up through some pretty nasty units looking for tail trees for downhilling. I think we had to climb half again as far as the corridor to find decent trees. 

I always lost weight when they started going.


----------



## RandyMac

Pettibone yarder, they used to fly 100" butts a mile with it. The top 50 feet was blown off by lightning.


----------



## Greenwedge

RandyMac said:


> Pettibone yarder, they used to fly 100" butts a mile with it. The top 50 feet was blown off by lightning.


 
This is flipping cool! Will you do me a favor and explain this whole outfit to me? I have never heard of a pettibone yarder and am excited to add to the knowledge bank......its pretty empty!


----------



## wowzers

Greenwedge, Big 10-4 on the work thing. I feel the same way. We just got done with our pole job and are finally back in a normal strip. One of the cutters who used to rig came and worked with us for a couple weeks. Man that guy knows his stuff about rigging. Wish I could have worked with him for a couple months just to try an learn a some of the tricks he knows.


----------



## Greenwedge

wowzers said:


> Greenwedge, Big 10-4 on the work thing. I feel the same way. We just got done with our pole job and are finally back in a normal strip. One of the cutters who used to rig came and worked with us for a couple weeks. Man that guy knows his stuff about rigging. Wish I could have worked with him for a couple months just to try an learn a some of the tricks he knows.


 
Was it Griff? That dude is a double handy son of a gun.


----------



## wowzers

Yeah, he sure is.


----------



## RandyMac

Greenwedge said:


> This is flipping cool! Will you do me a favor and explain this whole outfit to me? I have never heard of a pettibone yarder and am excited to add to the knowledge bank......its pretty empty!


 
I only know some and only what I was told. Gologit may know more, I'm pretty sure he has seen this same thing.

The last time I saw it, 1977, there was two old NorthWest loaders stranded there, yes, both has eyes painted on the boom. The yarder had a six cylinder engine, with the cylinders cast separate, it was intact, but whorowitz probably sold it for scrap. I send an e-mail to Woody Murphy, with any luck...
I may have it wrong, the Pettibone may not be the yarder, but the place was called the "Pettibone Yard". It had it's own rail spur.


----------



## Rounder

dave k said:


> Here are a couple fo pics of todays fun and you can be sure I had a few bumps from bites going home !!
> The tree is a Beech that came over in a storm some months ago, have been waiting for some time to get in on some dry ground, as you can see in one of the pics it's still pretty wet !


 
Dave, hope them flies didn't bite too hard......don't worry though, I'm thinkin' of ya while I'm sitting here slurping beer. Oh ####....I gotta go to work tomorow!


----------



## bitzer

Awesome frickin poplar Hammer! You weren't kiddin you were gettin into some nice ones! Is that wood about like cutting ash as far as density? Those vines looked like a treat. 

Nice pics Sam! 

And Randy, well #### could you find somethin a little more up to date? Just kiddin man! Great pics as well! Hope you can get that scanner runnin overtime!


----------



## hammerlogging

bitzer said:


> Awesome frickin poplar Hammer! You weren't kiddin you were gettin into some nice ones! Is that wood about like cutting ash as far as density? Those vines looked like a treat.
> 
> Nice pics Sam!
> 
> And Randy, well #### could you find somethin a little more up to date? Just kiddin man! Great pics as well! Hope you can get that scanner runnin overtime!


 
Softer than ash and cleaner than pine!
Speaking of Ash, I love it, but its the most sensitive damn wood out there, you can bust it just looking at it. I always clean up my game a notch for Ash. 

Randy can't show new picks or we'll bust him for his capris.
or red heels?

Any progress on your end?


----------



## wowzers

Hammer, is there still much a market for poplar bark back there? For a while that stuff was spendy.


----------



## hammerlogging

wowzers said:


> Hammer, is there still much a market for poplar bark back there? For a while that stuff was spendy.



I don't know much about the market except I've seen a few million dollar vacation homes that are still having it put up. My friend works at a camp that has it all over the cabins. I like it. Damn those poplars are slick when the bark comes off! So is the bottom side of the bark, the pieces on the ground that come off.

There's a big mill here that still manufactures it.


----------



## 056 kid

hammerlogging said:


> Softer than ash and cleaner than pine!
> Speaking of Ash, I love it, but its the most sensitive damn wood out there, you can bust it just looking at it. I always clean up my game a notch for Ash.
> 
> Randy can't show new picks or we'll bust him for his capris.
> or red heels?
> 
> Any progress on your end?


 
I'l take ash over White oak ANY day. . .


----------



## bitzer

hammerlogging said:


> Softer than ash and cleaner than pine!
> Speaking of Ash, I love it, but its the most sensitive damn wood out there, you can bust it just looking at it. I always clean up my game a notch for Ash.
> 
> Randy can't show new picks or we'll bust him for his capris.
> or red heels?
> 
> Any progress on your end?


 
Well I'm getting more of a feel for the activities in the area. I may have to go indy if I want to get any steady action. I'm not sure how that works, carrying my own insurance. I will cross that bridge if I have too. 

I haven't talked to too many live people yet, just voicemails. Guess what one of the first questions asked was when I did get to talk to someone though? 

Many of you leftys may be happy to know that looking through the WI Master Loggers Certification felling handbook, the humboldt is pictured as a viable face cut! I was kinda surprised myself. They also had a thing or two to say about sloping back-cuts! Haha. 

Interestingly enough they mentioned to cut the corners off of the hinge in Ash specifically because of it tendancy to tear. 

Hope the heat is taking it easy on you Hammer!


----------



## forestryworks

bitzer said:


> Hope the heat is taking it easy on you Hammer!


 
Nonsense. He's having nice summer weather! 

Come on down to Texas, Bitzer, where we're cooking like hotdogs and sweating beer.


----------



## wowzers

I remember there was a mill towards Rutherfordton that specialized in it. You had to cut it in the spring and a Toyota pickup load would bring around $1,000.


----------



## hammerlogging

Probably the same one, at that rate I might have to check in to some extra curricular work next spring. Good thing I drive a toyota.

Reminds me of loading straw bales into my toyota with an old farm hand "they don't fit like in a ford or chevy, guess its made for bags of rice or somethin"


----------



## 056 kid

bitzer said:


> Well I'm getting more of a feel for the activities in the area. I may have to go indy if I want to get any steady action. I'm not sure how that works, carrying my own insurance. I will cross that bridge if I have too.
> 
> I haven't talked to too many live people yet, just voicemails. Guess what one of the first questions asked was when I did get to talk to someone though?
> 
> Many of you leftys may be happy to know that looking through the WI Master Loggers Certification felling handbook, the humboldt is pictured as a viable face cut! I was kinda surprised myself. They also had a thing or two to say about sloping back-cuts! Haha.
> 
> Interestingly enough they mentioned to cut the corners off of the hinge in Ash specifically because of it tendancy to tear.
> 
> Hope the heat is taking it easy on you Hammer!


 
Yea, it is easy to pull the stump in ash, but hey, pulling stumps does not bother me any. In any case, with ash, white oak, hell just about all of them when the sap is high, you just have to stay with them, cut all the holding wood. That is unless you can master the elusive side band swarp notch!!!! then you are in the clear hahahahah. Really, with any timber in any condition, falling against the lean some is all you need to keep a piece of timber together, IM-humble-O. .


----------



## Greenwedge

*Cut Naked!*

View attachment 190056


----------



## RandyMac

Greenwedge said:


> C:\Users\Ugly Face\Pictures\2011-07-09\IMAG0298.jpg


 
a swing and a miss


----------



## 2dogs

Greenwedge said:


> View attachment 190056


 
Gosh Greenwedge I pictured you as much older.


----------



## Metals406

Greenwedge said:


> View attachment 190056


 
Like father like son!


----------



## forestryworks

Little clip. Cut a standing dead cottonwood today. First one ever. Damn things stink.

<iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/dP15uT6UGuk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Either my saw needs a tune up or I need to re-check my sharpening skills 

The video doesn't show it, but had to put the tree between two docks.


----------



## paccity

forestryworks said:


> Little clip. Cut a standing dead cottonwood today. First one ever. Damn things stink.
> 
> <iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/dP15uT6UGuk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
> 
> Either my saw needs a tune up or I need to re-check my sharpening skills
> 
> The video doesn't show it, but had to put the tree between two docks.


 
good. yup them there are stink sticks.


----------



## Samlock

Cottonwood? Never ran across one. 

Nice fall right through the fence! The saw does sound on throttle like it has a sour throat or running nose or something.


----------



## Cedarkerf

Yup Cotton wood stinks


----------



## Gologit

Cedarkerf said:


> Yup Cottan wood stinks


 
Smoke a cigar while you're cutting it.


----------



## Cedarkerf

Gologit said:


> Smoke a cigar while you're cutting it.


 
Maybe run 16:1 in my saw the smoke might cover the smell


----------



## wyk

So, I am over at a dudes place delivering some firewood too small for us to use in the t500 at the ranch. The guy asks if I have a saw with me. Then he asks if I would cut down his maple before it falls down or he has his son-in-law do it and kill himself that weekend, and he'd give me half the wood for it. I only had my 361 on me at the time with a 24" bar, and I have never cut down a tree twice the size of my bar, so I thought - what the hell. What could possibly go wrong? Er... Anywho, there weren't a lot of small branches I was afraid of, so I went ahead and did it without my helmet. Well, an ms361 doesn't oil enough for a job like this, and was heating up a lot so I went easy as I could on it. I used a standard triangle back cut, but prolly shoulda used a post. The entire tree trunk and root system were creaking like hell. I assumed it would barber chair on me at any time, so I am sort of tipping toeing around it and stopping now and again when the thing starts creaking on me. Never again. Next time it's my ported 385(which I didn't have at the time). I'm sure you'll enjoy the commentary by his daughters.

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/-VeGD0kR8Uw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


----------



## Cedarkerf

Supposed to be tree fallin not people fallin


----------



## slowp

Toe Warmers--yup, seen them in the store.
Hand Warmers--same.

Butt Warmers? Haven't seen them around here.


----------



## wyk

slowp said:


> Toe Warmers--yup, seen them in the store.
> Hand Warmers--same.
> 
> Butt Warmers? Haven't seen them around here.


 
Ya gotta go to san fran for those.


----------



## wyk

Cedarkerf said:


> Supposed to be tree fallin not people fallin


 
Most the fallin noise in that vid is from me and me old bones.


----------



## Gologit

Wyk...have a nice trip? Hehehehehehehe. None of the _rest_ of us _ever_ fall down.


----------



## T_F_E

slowp said:


> Toe Warmers--yup, seen them in the store.
> Hand Warmers--same.
> 
> Butt Warmers? Haven't seen them around here.


 
3 part hand warmer 1 part duct tape


----------



## wyk

Gologit said:


> Wyk...have a nice trip? Hehehehehehehe. None of the _rest_ of us _ever_ fall down.


 
I blame the overalls with X suspenders!


----------



## forestryworks

Gotta love a tumble in the woods!

I was perched on a little hump of soil on the good side of a pine snag. Reached for a wedge that had slid down the hill and managed to tumble over like an egg 

I yelled ####! for fear of the tree wanting to fall on me in my egg-flopped state, but then I remembered I still had to wedge it, lol.


----------



## paccity

if a logger falls in the woods do'es it make a sound?


----------



## stihl 440

paccity said:


> if a logger falls in the woods do'es it make a sound?


 
Only if someone else hears it..lol


----------



## Rounder

paccity said:


> if a logger falls in the woods do'es it make a sound?


 
Yes-"####### mother ####er son of whore ####ing ####balls ratpeckered son of a #####in' mother####ing donkey raping #### eater!!!"

Then you look around to see if your falling partner saw you make an ass of yourself. - Sam


----------



## Hddnis

mtsamloggit said:


> Yes-"####### mother ####er son of whore ####ing ####balls ratpeckered son of a #####in' mother####ing donkey raping #### eater!!!"
> 
> Then you look around to see if your falling partner saw you make an ass of yourself. - Sam







Hey! Which time was it you saw me do that?









Mr. HE


----------



## Gologit

mtsamloggit said:


> Yes-"####### mother ####er son of whore ####ing ####balls ratpeckered son of a #####in' mother####ing donkey raping #### eater!!!"
> 
> Then you look around to see if your falling partner saw you make an ass of yourself. - Sam


 
And they always do. Wait...his turn will come. I always figured if a man was yelling and cussing he was probably alright. It's when you didn't hear any cussing and the saw was just idling that made you head out across the strip toward him...fast.


----------



## hammerlogging

Thats funny cause I could have sworn its "god damn mother ####in ##### ass whore ####." 

But then I remembered thats when I throw my chain, again, it seems to go in spells.

I dranks a cheerwine today for wowzers. Its like a light, bit more refreshing dr.pepper. I rarely drink soda and now I've had a sun drop and a cheerwine in the last 2 weeks.


----------



## Rounder

Gologit said:


> And they always do. Wait...his turn will come. I always figured if a man was yelling and cussing he was probably alright. It's when you didn't hear any cussing and the saw was just idling that made you head out across the strip toward him...fast.


 
That is damn true, and damn good advice Bob.

I had a good one the other day. Taking a leak with my gloves tucked under my left arm, and one fell out. Directly into my stream of piss. ####. Looked around, and sure enough, there was pard, about to put a big rock in my pack just above me. We both laughed pretty hard over that whole deal - Sam


----------



## Sport Faller

mtsamloggit said:


> Yes-"####### mother ####er son of whore ####ing ####balls ratpeckered son of a #####in' mother####ing donkey raping #### eater!!!"
> 
> Then you look around to see if your falling partner saw you make an ass of yourself. - Sam


 
Hell Yeah, brush fit, but you forgot Mother F###in Clown F######

The first time I saw a brush fit was when I was a little kid "helping" Uncle Boyd change the oil in his pickup. The filter refused to budge by way of conventional means so he went to drive a screwdriver through the side of it, he wound up smashing his thumb and getting nasty oil in his mouth and eyes...... I'm pretty sure I started crying because I thought I had done something and was in for a wailing


----------



## forestryworks

bigskyjake said:


> I'm pretty sure I started crying because I thought I had done something and was in for a wailing


 
LOL


----------



## bitzer

*Urban Fallin'*

Uphill leanin basswood. Needed it down hill and between the maple and the mulberry. 






Yep a super fat hinge, but I needed it to stay on the stump. I also enjoyed watching it take forever to go over. If it was money wood I woulda cut it off, but it was headed where I wanted it.





Free and clear!





Bucked small to run up hill and loaded in the dumper. 





Summer finally showed up this weekend. Upper 90s and HUMID!

View attachment 191126

View attachment 191127

View attachment 191128

View attachment 191129


----------



## 056 kid

Ever have too many brush fits and just give up on cussing for the day?


----------



## Rounder

Yes. Sometimes it's better to sit down and have a sip of water and rearrange the mental. Bad attitude usually equals bad production. For me anyways. When I get pissed, mistakes start to snowball. I used to make a mistake, throw a tantrum, push harder to make up for lost time, and really get in a wreck. Try not to do that anymore........but there are those moments, lol.


----------



## hammerlogging

mtsamloggit said:


> Yes. Sometimes it's better to sit down and have a sip of water and rearrange the mental. Bad attitude usually equals bad production. For me anyways. When I get pissed, mistakes start to snowball. I used to make a mistake, throw a tantrum, push harder to make up for lost time, and really get in a wreck. Try not to do that anymore........but there are those moments, lol.


 
Definately. Its got to be a pretty bad series of events to actually be pissed, even then its just something to make myself laugh. Rushing, getting tense, equipment on your ass-- kill production. Smooth, motion, efficient, in the groove, not getting hung, and not letting it get to you if you have to knock a wedge to get out of a bucking bind, keepin a moving, thats how its done.

I will say that the added "####" at the end of my favorite spasm provides for just the right of amount of absolute crassness, and therapeutic oxygen resupply to get one going again.


----------



## Gologit

mtsamloggit said:


> Yes. Sometimes it's better to sit down and have a sip of water and rearrange the mental. Bad attitude usually equals bad production. For me anyways. When I get pissed, mistakes start to snowball. I used to make a mistake, throw a tantrum, push harder to make up for lost time, and really get in a wreck. Try not to do that anymore........but there are those moments, lol.


 
Well said. The only thing I ever really accomplished with riggin fits was new dents in my tin hat and sore toes from kicking things.

But, like you said...sometimes you just gotta turn the tiger loose.


----------



## dave k

I like that " let the tiger loose" an expression here is "loose the head" which I have to say I have been guilty of. However the owner of the land Im working on at the moment has sent his youngest (24) daughter down to work with me so I have keep the tiger in check !! That said she is no stranger to sounding like a salior at times so gives me a good bit of leeway.


----------



## slowp

Gologit said:


> Well said. The only thing I ever really accomplished with riggin fits was new dents in my tin hat and sore toes from kicking things.
> 
> But, like you said...sometimes you just gotta turn the tiger loose.



I'll start a fight here now. Kicking things while having fits is the only reason to need steel toes on boots. 
By the time you lace them up to kick something, the fit need should be over....then you can put on the good boots and get back to work. I believe I've had an idea! 

OK, now everybody has to add a pair of boots to what they pack out each day. :msp_smile:


----------



## 056 kid

Kicking something hard will straighten your ass up quick!! 
My old boss man used to freak the hell out sometimes in the mornings, usually because someone didn't buy oil or or something, or somebody forgot to put the good starter on the pickup. He'd roll out a few minutes of some very interesting dialogue, kick some tractor fluid buckets around and then throw his hands up in the air and say, "I dont even give to #### any more, Im gonna sell all this #### and buy a god damn RV". Then when he gets really down & out he wouldn't say anything at all and just sulk around, thats when you knew not to leave the man be and keep your distance haha!! 
He had 2 fake hips and used to take tumbles like OG trees falling, like slow motion he would fall, sometimes 8 or 9 feet down the mountain, then he would do what we called "high steppin" because of his hips he wattled. When you saw him high steppin through the brush you knew you where in for it boy!!!


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> I'll start a fight here now. Kicking things while having fits is the only reason to need steel toes on boots.
> By the time you lace them up to kick something, the fit need should be over....then you can put on the good boots and get back to work. I believe I've had an idea!
> 
> OK, now everybody has to add a pair of boots to what they pack out each day. :msp_smile:


 
Nope. Taking time to lace up your boots takes all the spontaneity out of a riggin fit. 

And I _already_ pack enough stuff out every day.


----------



## Sport Faller

Well, cut some doug fir down yesterday and was too damn embarrassed to take any picks, face cuts were money but I couldn't get my backcuts to do a damn thing, looking down the hill was like seeing the aftermath of 3 drunks playing Jenga :msp_angry:

also learned a few things:

A: heavy head leaners on really steep ground kind go wherever the hell they want when you don't have the balls to use a dutchman

B: an 038 Mag with a 28" bar weighs the same as a 460 with a 32" bar

C: an 038 Mag with a 28" bar and full comp chain is pretty damn slow

D: within the next 40 to 50 years I might have a damn clue as to what I'm doing :bang:


----------



## OregonSawyer

Still would have appreciated some pics. I always get excited to see fresh stumps in this thread. 


You'd think that after 200 pages of this thread I'd realize that there is more BS than pics.

Don't be shy. Hell, I just wish I got to cut something down recently! The 660 is collecting dust.... :taped:


----------



## RandyMac

Time to get back on track.
Put the dwebs on ignore, carry on like they aren't here.


----------



## Greystoke

I'm in.


----------



## Rounder

Well ####, and here I was thinking I was cutting some nice timber......


----------



## RandyMac

tarzanstree said:


> I'm in.


 
Ha Ha Ha
look at that kid!!!

I watch that vid every week, I get real kick out of watching you pump that jack handle and run for your life.


----------



## Metals406

mtsamloggit said:


> Well ####, and here I was thinking I was cutting some nice timber......


 
Alaska and NorCal cheat Sam. :msp_tongue:


----------



## Greystoke

RandyMac said:


> Ha Ha Ha
> look at that kid!!!
> 
> I watch that vid every week, I get real kick out of watching you pump that jack handle and run for your life.


 
25 yrs old there! I was runnin for my life. Fallin those Redwoods up the hill through all that regeneration...threw back some big ass limbs and I didn't wanna catch one in the guts! Wish I knew then what I know now...I damn near ####ed up on that tree! Just edited that part out of the Video...LOL!


----------



## Greystoke

Metals406 said:


> Alaska and NorCal cheat Sam. :msp_tongue:


 
That was all Californy there pard. Here is some Alaska:


----------



## Metals406

tarzanstree said:


> That was all Californy there pard. Here is some Alaska:


 
Yellow cedar?


----------



## Greystoke

Metals406 said:


> Yellow cedar?


 

Yessir...on the nicer side of the ones that I experienced killin.


----------



## Samlock

tarzanstree said:


> Yessir...on the nicer side of the ones that I experienced killin.


 
You're not killing a tree there, you're gently escorting it to a next life.


----------



## RandyMac

tarzanstree said:


> 25 yrs old there! I was runnin for my life. Fallin those Redwoods up the hill through all that regeneration...threw back some big ass limbs and I didn't wanna catch one in the guts! Wish I knew then what I know now...I damn near ####ed up on that tree! Just edited that part out of the Video...LOL!


 
What a pup!!
Ah well, I guess I shouldn't tell you I was 23 when I cut my 9'6" Redwood and it had a top on it.
I did the whole thing with half a dozen geezers sharing words of encouragement.
I will tell you that in a panic, I took the wrong way off the springboards, a 12 foot drop into the ferns, with a half twist and a triple tumble. I didn't stop running during the whole preformance, I probably looked like a cartoon.


----------



## Gologit

RandyMac said:


> What a pup!!
> Ah well, I guess I shouldn't tell you I was 23 when I cut my 9'6" Redwood and it had a top on it.
> I did the whole thing with half a dozen geezers sharing words of encouragement.
> I will tell you that in a panic, I took the wrong way off the springboards, a 12 foot drop into the ferns, with a half twist and a triple tumble. I didn't stop running during the whole preformance, I probably looked like a cartoon.


 
I would have liked to see that. I've made some less than graceful exits from springboards a time or two but nothing to match that.

Will you demonstrate that for us at the next GTG?


----------



## Greystoke

Gologit said:


> I would have liked to see that. I've made some less than graceful exits from springboards a time or two but nothing to match that.
> 
> Will you demonstrate that for us at the next GTG?


 
It would be worth it to come just to see that one pard :msp_smile:


----------



## Hddnis

Gologit said:


> I would have liked to see that. I've made some less than graceful exits from springboards a time or two but nothing to match that.
> 
> Will you demonstrate that for us at the next GTG?






For his second performance of this daring stunt I don't think it will be the ferns and brush going snap, crackle and pop. :hmm3grin2orange:



Mr. HE


----------



## RandyMac

Gologit said:


> I would have liked to see that. I've made some less than graceful exits from springboards a time or two but nothing to match that.
> *
> The geezers gave me a 9.5, would have been a 10 but the Master dumped an 8 on me*_._
> 
> Will you demonstrate that for us at the next GTG?


 
_*sure enough, find a ten footer for me.*_



tarzanstree said:


> It would be worth it to come just to see that one pard :msp_smile:


 
_*bring the whiskey*_



Hddnis said:


> For his second performance of this daring stunt I don't think it will be the ferns and brush going snap, crackle and pop. :hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> Mr. HE



You got that right!


----------



## Eccentric

RandyMac said:


> _*sure enough, find a ten footer for me.*_
> 
> 
> 
> _*bring the whiskey*_
> 
> 
> 
> You got that right!


 
Lots of 10+footers nearby me Randy. Of course they're protected....

I'll bring the whiskey for sure. Just don't break anything doing the 12' springboard swan dive. We may need to run some more _*after*_ the tree hits the ground....


----------



## Sport Faller

We haven't hit up this thread in a while, here's me diggin in on a decent sized Tamarack


----------



## forestryworks

bigskyjake said:


>


 
Look up!


----------



## Metals406

Jake, take an extra minute to ax off the rest of that bark around the face and backcut (while looking up a lot ). . . That burnt crap is pure carbon, and hard on just about every part of a saw.

That's a respectable tree there, that must'a filled up the truck pretty good.

Is that the Sylvia burn?


----------



## forestryworks

Metals406 said:


> Jake, take an extra minute to ax off the rest of that bark around the face and backcut (while looking up a lot ). . . That burnt crap is pure carbon, and hard on just about every part of a saw.


 
Yup. And watch for the big slabs of bark sliding down like a runaway elevator... It'll give you an ass whooping.


----------



## Metals406

Also, that 30" tree was clearly a job for the E-Z w/ 20" bar and full skip. . . You and your overkill! :wink2:


----------



## slowp

Metals406 said:


> Also, that 30" tree was clearly a job for the E-Z w/ 20" bar and full skip. . . You and your overkill! :wink2:


 

Hey! At least he's got suspenders on!!


----------



## Sport Faller

Metals406 said:


> Jake, take an extra minute to ax off the rest of that bark around the face and backcut (while looking up a lot ). . . That burnt crap is pure carbon, and hard on just about every part of a saw.
> 
> That's a respectable tree there, that must'a filled up the truck pretty good.
> 
> Is that the Sylvia burn?


 
UP Good Creek, after those pics were taken I knocked that junk off the far side, ummm well it sure would've filled up the truck nice , it looked dry as hell but part of the way through the back cut I was like "why the #### is my B&C soooo gummed up" 

also just about swapped knuckles with my step dad that day


----------



## Sport Faller

forestryworks said:


> Yup. And watch for the big slabs of bark sliding down like a runaway elevator... It'll give you an ass whooping.


 
Umm yeah, that #### was scary, it kindof reminded me of an avalanche


----------



## Metals406

bigskyjake said:


> UP Good Creek, after those pics were taken I knocked that junk off the far side, ummm well it sure would've filled up the truck nice , it looked dry as hell but part of the way through the back cut I was like "why the #### is my B&C soooo gummed up"
> 
> also just about swapped knuckles with my step dad that day


 
Jeez, take it easy on your step dad. . . He can't help it. 

It's amazing how much water those larch snags will hold at the bole! I cut a couple last year, and had to wait for a minute to let the water finish pouring out; it was about a gallon I reckon.

It's still good firewood, just needs split up to dry. . . It's not like curing green, it's just wet dead fiber.


----------



## forestryworks

How does dead larch compare to dead doug-fir for firewood?


----------



## Sport Faller

Metals406 said:


> Jeez, take it easy on your step dad. . . He can't help it.
> 
> It's amazing how much water those larch snags will hold at the bole! I cut a couple last year, and had to wait for a minute to let the water finish pouring out; it was about a gallon I reckon.
> 
> It's still good firewood, just needs split up to dry. . . It's not like curing green, it's just wet dead fiber.


 
Ok he was
A: 1 1/2 hours late to pick us up to head out there
B: fritters around and wasted about an hour just to get to the tree
C: those pics were the most work he did all damn day
D: decides to cut down a tree a long assed way from the road instead of taking 3 perfectly good blowdowns that were literally touching the road
E: grumbles and whines the whole way home about "not being able to get a full load" (by this time it was 7 pm, it was time to leave)

we might have to go snag that badboy up sometime then


----------



## Sport Faller

forestryworks said:


> How does dead larch compare to dead doug-fir for firewood?


 
Larch burns hotter and longer, it real good stuff


----------



## Metals406

forestryworks said:


> How does dead larch compare to dead doug-fir for firewood?


 
Guess it boils down to personal preference. . . But I like both about as equal. They're the top of the pecking order here for firewood, then you have your white-woods.

If'n I had to chart them, they'd go like this:

DF
Larch
Lodgepole Pine
E. Spruce
Western White pine (when available)
Ponderosa Pine 
Hemlock (when available)
Birch
Grand Fir (White Fir)
Sub-Alpine Fir (Piss Fir)
Black Cottonwood
Aspen


----------



## Metals406

bigskyjake said:


> Ok he was
> A: 1 1/2 hours late to pick us up to head out there
> B: fritters around and wasted about an hour just to get to the tree
> C: those pics were the most work he did all damn day
> D: decides to cut down a tree a long assed way from the road instead of taking 3 perfectly good blowdowns that were literally touching the road
> E: grumbles and whines the whole way home about "not being able to get a full load" (by this time it was 7 pm, it was time to leave)
> 
> we might have to go snag that badboy up sometime then


 
That's about par for his course though. . . Ya probably knew all that was gonna happen before ya left!


----------



## forestryworks

From what I've read, you guys in the Rockies sure could use way more standing Larch than what you have.


----------



## Sport Faller

Metals406 said:


> That's about par for his course though. . . Ya probably knew all that was gonna happen before ya left!


 
I surely did, I went because I knew that if I didn't my Mom would wind up doing all the work while he chugged Powerade and whined about his back being "out" or his neck hurting

he was actually whining his eyes out because some of the DF we wound up getting had some burnt bark and it " is making a giant mess in the truck bed"

I also had to rest my left arm on a microfiber towel he put on the armrest of his truck because I was too sweaty


----------



## Metals406

bigskyjake said:


> I surely did, I went because I knew that if I didn't my Mom would wind up doing all the work while he chugged Powerade and whined about his back being "out" or his neck hurting
> 
> he was actually whining his eyes out because some of the DF we wound up getting had some burnt bark and it " is making a giant mess in the truck bed"
> 
> I also had to rest my left arm on a microfiber towel he put on the armrest of his truck because I was too sweaty


 
Time for him to switch to electric or gas heat!  

What a sissy-la-la.


----------



## wowzers

Buckskin tamarack (larch) is the top choice around here.


----------



## Metals406

wowzers said:


> Buckskin tamarack (larch) is the top choice around here.


 
YUP! I think most us R1 guys have a similar taste in firewood.


----------



## Rounder

forestryworks said:


> From what I've read, you guys in the Rockies sure could use way more standing Larch than what you have.


 
Gate keys and girdling have done a lot to help this little problem.


----------



## Sport Faller

BAD day today, BAAAAAAAAAD (no, not baaaaa like a sheep) day

Dumped some pickles BUT forgot my camera
Effed 2 wedges
destroyed a chain
my 38 mag caught on fire
had to deal with my sweetly retarded step father for about 9 hours
AND Uncle Boyd got hit with some heat stroke and was damn lucky Bethany and I brought about 3 gallons of water to cool him down, one minute he was fine, the next he was stumbling and falling down and babbling about wierd ####. Luckily we had some ice left in the cooler so we pretty much tackled him in the shade and packed his armpits with ice and dumped a ton of water on him


EFF today


----------



## Gologit

bigskyjake said:


> BAD day today, BAAAAAAAAAD (no, not baaaaa like a sheep) day
> 
> Dumped some pickles BUT forgot my camera
> Effed 2 wedges
> destroyed a chain
> my 38 mag caught on fire
> had to deal with my sweetly retarded step father for about 9 hours
> AND Uncle Boyd got hit with some heat stroke and was damn lucky Bethany and I brought about 3 gallons of water to cool him down, one minute he was fine, the next he was stumbling and falling down and babbling about wierd ####. Luckily we had some ice left in the cooler so we pretty much tackled him in the shade and packed his armpits with ice and dumped a ton of water on him
> 
> 
> EFF today


 
Hang in there.


----------



## 056 kid

you should have taken it to the house as soon as you got the notion. .

damn Bob, sneaking in between my post and Jake's, making it look like I am talking to myself. .


----------



## Sport Faller

056 kid said:


> you should have taken it to the house as soon as you got the notion. .
> 
> damn Bob, sneaking in between my post and Jake's, making it look like I am talking to myself. .


 
Huh, what's taken it to the house, like beat the #### out of my step dad, because I'm about 1-3 lazy, idiotic, lying, sneaky moments away from going stone cold with a cheater bar


----------



## Gologit

056 kid said:


> you should have taken it to the house as soon as you got the notion. .
> 
> damn Bob, sneaking in between my post and Jake's, making it look like I am talking to myself. .


 
LOLOL...As slow as I type I'm surprised that happened. You're right about taking it to the house. Some days just get worse and worse. No harm in packing out and heading for town.

And...everybody already knows you talk to yourself so no harm done.


----------



## Gologit

bigskyjake said:


> Huh, what's taken it to the house, like beat the #### out of my step dad, because I'm about 1-3 lazy, idiotic, lying, sneaky moments away from going stone cold with a cheater bar


 
Nah, that's not the solution. Hitting people never really makes them a better person, less of a pain in the ass, smarter, or better at their job. It just confuses them and complicates things.

Why not just leave the guy home next time?


----------



## Sport Faller

Gologit said:


> LOLOL...As slow as I type I'm surprised that happened. You're right about taking it to the house. Some days just get worse and worse. No harm in packing out and heading for town.


 
Oh, see where my head's at 

Wasn't really an option today, had to round up a metric buttload of wood with 9 people there and about 3 of those 9 active and not just grabassing on the "landing"


----------



## Sport Faller

Gologit said:


> Nah, that's not the solution. Hitting people never really makes them a better a person, less of a pain in the ass, smarter, or better at their job. It just confuses them and complicates things.


 
it's tough to bite my tounge and keep the fists in check when the cat just spouts off constantly but is a complete ##### (have personaly seen him cry after 1 bee sting)


----------



## Gologit

bigskyjake said:


> it's tough to bite my tounge and keep the fists in check when the cat just spouts off constantly but is a complete ##### (have personaly seen him cry after 1 bee sting)


 
LOL...maybe you're in training to be a side-rod.


----------



## slowp

bigskyjake said:


> it's tough to bite my tounge and keep the fists in check when the cat just spouts off constantly but is a complete ##### (have personaly seen him cry after 1 bee sting)



Or be a sale administrator. My tongue is all scarred up!


----------



## Metals406

bigskyjake said:


> BAD day today, BAAAAAAAAAD (no, not baaaaa like a sheep) day
> 
> Dumped some pickles BUT forgot my camera
> Effed 2 wedges
> destroyed a chain
> my 38 mag caught on fire
> had to deal with my sweetly retarded step father for about 9 hours
> AND Uncle Boyd got hit with some heat stroke and was damn lucky Bethany and I brought about 3 gallons of water to cool him down, one minute he was fine, the next he was stumbling and falling down and babbling about wierd ####. Luckily we had some ice left in the cooler so we pretty much tackled him in the shade and packed his armpits with ice and dumped a ton of water on him
> 
> 
> EFF today


 
HOLY #### DUDE!

How the heck did the 38 catch on fire???

Glad your uncle is okay, heat is a sneaky critter, and will put ya down. Sounds like we get a break this week from the heat! YAY!


----------



## Sport Faller

Metals406 said:


> HOLY #### DUDE!
> 
> How the heck did the 38 catch on fire???
> 
> Glad your uncle is okay, heat is a sneaky critter, and will put ya down. Sounds like we get a break this week from the heat! YAY!


 
The ground wire from the switch was super frazzled and apparently started arcing and caught my shoddy assed electrical tape job on fire, luckily it didn't burn the air filter or filter cover

that sounds good about the heat I'm ready for a break from 90 degree days


----------



## madhatte

bigskyjake said:


> The ground wire from the switch was super frazzled and apparently started arcing and caught my shoddy assed electrical tape job on fire



If it was actually arcing, you need a new coil module. There should never be a high enough voltage on the primary side of a coil to jump a gap in air -- those voltages should all be on the secondary side, where they can ignite things on purpose. However, if you just had a bunch of mung in the switch which was resistively heating, that could cause a fire as well. Best bet is to replace switch and coil together.


----------



## Sport Faller

madhatte said:


> If it was actually arcing, you need a new coil module. There should never be a high enough voltage on the primary side of a coil to jump a gap in air -- those voltages should all be on the secondary side, where they can ignite things on purpose. However, if you just had a bunch of mung in the switch which was resistively heating, that could cause a fire as well. Best bet is to replace switch and coil together.


 
the switch has always been a little loose and whatnot, but all I know is that the ground wire (which I just checked closer and is now no longer attached) caught my electrical tape job on fire


----------



## madhatte

Has it ever shocked you when you went to shut it off? If so, that points more to the coil than to the switch.


----------



## Sport Faller

madhatte said:


> Has it ever shocked you when you went to shut it off? If so, that points more to the coil than to the switch.


 
No it's always been pretty good, other than the loose-ish switch

Just dug a little deeper, the previous owner had e-taped it a little too and after removing that tape i found the switch wire had an exposed spot on it too


----------



## madhatte

Might be able to get away with just replacing the switch, then.


----------



## 056 kid

Gologit said:


> LOLOL...As slow as I type I'm surprised that happened. You're right about taking it to the house. Some days just get worse and worse. No harm in packing out and heading for town.
> 
> And...everybody already knows you talk to yourself so no harm done.



Oh do I


----------



## RPM

RandyMac said:


> Not all trees are pretty.


 
Yup ..... but even the ugly ones need some luvin


----------



## RandyMac

056 kid said:


> Oh do I?



Fixed it for you.


----------



## Samlock

I took the camera to work today - just to keep this fantastic thread rolling on.

I managed to catch 3 separate cases, an ugly, a nice and a tricky one.

Please, do not hesitate to write your comment, if you got one. I'd like to learn to make better videos (learning how to fall timber wouldn't hurt either). I guess I could set the camera a bit closer. It doesn't look like much to watch how a midget is jumping around a stick in a bush.

[video=youtube;bm3LmlCXxVQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bm3LmlCXxVQ[/video]


----------



## Erock

[video=youtube;MxMbE6-lkRI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxMbE6-lkRI[/video]

I work on a fuels crew out on the Bridger-Teton National Forest in Wyoming. (Some of the frequent visitors of this thread may remember me, I used to work for the Superior National Forest in Northern MN.) Along with IA'ing fires locally and available nationally our project work consists of preparing areas for Rx fires. This years projects mostly consisted of felling ALL conifers within a specified distance of the proposed line. I'm pissed at myself in this video because my cuts would have matched up had i kept cutting but I got impatient.

And the stump
View attachment 198534


Forgot to mention, saw is a MS460 wearing a 28" oregon B&C full skip chisel


----------



## 056 kid

RandyMac said:


> Fixed it for you.


 
Aaa, thank ya. .
I'm not drinking enough to keep up with the threads.


----------



## Samlock

Erock said:


> I work on a fuels crew out on the Bridger-Teton National Forest in Wyoming. (Some of the frequent visitors of this thread may remember me, I used to work for the Superior National Forest in Northern MN.) Along with IA'ing fires locally and available nationally our project work consists of preparing areas for Rx fires. This years projects mostly consisted of felling ALL conifers within a specified distance of the proposed line. I'm pissed at myself in this video because my cuts would have matched up had i kept cutting but I got impatient.
> 
> Forgot to mention, saw is a MS460 wearing a 28" oregon B&C full skip chisel



Thanks for posting, Erock! Matching is just fine, it worked anyway. Softwoods aren't too picky about it.

Few hints:

I see you're using the conventional face. It's usually taught that you should do the upper cut first, then the lower (horizontal) cut. Reason: Better aiming. You keep an eye on the black line on your 460 body while cutting the face, it points to the direction. Also it helps matching the cuts, you used an ax to remove the wedge out of the face. If you did the upper cut first, you could see the corners right before finishing the face.

Try sometimes to hold the saw the other way round while back cutting. The front handle is on the left, you see. Also that you can throttle with your thumb. A little ergonomics, saves your wrist. Always use your thumb while cutting horizontally.

And finally, keep looking up!

Regards, Sam - the "Conventional"


----------



## upstateny

I have to agree with samlock on the using your thumb when horizontal cutting. Especially out here on the east coast where all the contractors want short stumps that will leave the flair on the butt log.


----------



## Joe46

I think it might have gone better with a slopping backcut and a blue wedge:msp_rolleyes:Seriously, thanks for the vid. Do look up!


----------



## lfnh

Joe46 said:


> I think it might have gone better with a slopping backcut and a blue wedge:msp_rolleyes:Seriously, thanks for the vid. Do look up!


 
blue wedges, barbie saws, pink peaveys, and unmentionables for sweatbands....what's next ?

Wow, this forum is quickly going to hell in a handbasket!


----------



## Erock

Samlock said:


> Thanks for posting, Erock! Matching is just fine, it worked anyway. Softwoods aren't too picky about it.
> 
> Few hints:
> 
> I see you're using the conventional face. It's usually taught that you should do the upper cut first, then the lower (horizontal) cut. Reason: Better aiming. You keep an eye on the black line on your 460 body while cutting the face, it points to the direction. Also it helps matching the cuts, you used an ax to remove the wedge out of the face. If you did the upper cut first, you could see the corners right before finishing the face.
> 
> Try sometimes to hold the saw the other way round while back cutting. The front handle is on the left, you see. Also that you can throttle with your thumb. A little ergonomics, saves your wrist. Always use your thumb while cutting horizontally.
> 
> And finally, keep looking up!
> 
> Regards, Sam - the "Conventional"



I've heard of that method but have never tried it though. I typically just watch my pie for both sides to fall then I know I matched both sides. After cutting for 3 years I finally can get em to match probably 80% of the time thanks to some tips from my crew foreman. I'm gonna head back out there next year so more practice will be coming. Thanks for the help, I'm always interested in hearing other fallers techniques so keep em coming. 

We did have problems with a few lodgepole pine falling them against the lean. They weren't leaning terribly bad, I've tipped trees similar to these ones against the lean before. (branch weight was even all around, the trees are green around 20in DBH, 80-100 ft tall) I usually quarter cut them, stick a wedge in to keep em from sitting back, cut the other side then the tree would sit on the wedge as expected but then they would just swallow the wedge completely and the kerf would be closed so I can't get more wedges in to help lift. Any tips on that situation? I wanted to fall them against to get more slash in spots that were lacking to hold a little more fire.


----------



## Gologit

lfnh said:


> blue wedges, barbie saws, pink peaveys, and unmentionables for sweatbands....what's next ?
> 
> Wow, this forum is quickly going to hell in a handbasket!


 
Yup, that kind of thread drift drives the Stay On Topic Nazis absolutely insane. Scroom...it's more fun the way we do it. :msp_biggrin:


----------



## Gologit

Erock said:


> I've heard of that method but have never tried it though. I typically just watch my pie for both sides to fall then I know I matched both sides. After cutting for 3 years I finally can get em to match probably 80% of the time thanks to some tips from my crew foreman. I'm gonna head back out there next year so more practice will be coming. Thanks for the help, I'm always interested in hearing other fallers techniques so keep em coming.
> 
> We did have problems with a few lodgepole pine falling them against the lean. They weren't leaning terribly bad, I've tipped trees similar to these ones against the lean before. (branch weight was even all around, the trees are green around 20in DBH, 80-100 ft tall) I usually quarter cut them, stick a wedge in to keep em from sitting back, cut the other side then the tree would sit on the wedge as expected but then they would just swallow the wedge completely and the kerf would be closed so I can't get more wedges in to help lift. Any tips on that situation? I wanted to fall them against to get more slash in spots that were lacking to hold a little more fire.


 
Would using a Humboldt with a snipe and a little piece of the pie busted up and set in the face help? You can walk one around quite a ways doing that.
I'm probably not explaining that very well. TreeSlingr has a video that demonstrates that better than I can tell it. I hope he doesn't mind my posting it but it's a great example of how to swing a tree. He doesn't use a snipe but you can experiment with that a little and see if you like the results.


Falling Trees on Fire 2008_0001.wmv - YouTube


----------



## Sport Faller

Gologit said:


> Would using a Humboldt with a snipe and a little piece of the pie busted up and set in the face help? You can walk one around quite a ways doing that.
> I'm probably not explaining that very well. TreeSlingr has a video that demonstrates that better than I can tell it. I hope he doesn't mind my posting it but it's a great example of how to swing a tree. He doesn't use a snipe but you can experiment with that a little and see if you like the results.
> 
> 
> Falling Trees on Fire 2008_0001.wmv - YouTube


 
Bob, that's basically like a Step Dutchman without having to cut the step in, right

also, the cats that do that have my utmost respect, that pretty much looked like he was fallin trees in Hell


----------



## Joe46

If I have it right. I would call a "step dutchman" a soft dutchman. Using a piece of the face cut is more of a "hard dutchman". I used the hard one on more than one occasion. I'd never seen the step dutchman used when when I was falling( fellingumpkin2


----------



## Erock

So does he aim a little left of his target to get the tree to initially start going then does it hit the block and swing back to the right to the actual target? I've seen this video before just not sure where he's aiming and how bad the back lean is.


----------



## 056 kid

Gologit said:


> Would using a Humboldt with a snipe and a little piece of the pie busted up and set in the face help? You can walk one around quite a ways doing that.
> I'm probably not explaining that very well. TreeSlingr has a video that demonstrates that better than I can tell it. I hope he doesn't mind my posting it but i*t's a great example of how to swing a tree.* He doesn't use a snipe but you can experiment with that a little and see if you like the results.
> 
> 
> 
> Falling Trees on Fire 2008_0001.wmv - YouTube


 

From under the lean to boot! pretty slick.


----------



## Sport Faller

Randy, Sam, Paccity, where you at boys? we might've got kicked out of the Chainsaw forum but the party's still goin!


----------



## Rounder

Just checkin' in on smoke break Jake. Been getting pushed too much for pics lately, but I'll make an effort. Supposed to go to Ovando for a couple days this week and finish the other cutter's job....they're getting their turn in Bozo this week. Virgin timber. Supposedly nice. A bit of rot, but they say it cleans up fast. I'll try and bring the camera. It's just been the typical push to saw ourselves out of a job.....not much time for ####in' off with a camera - Sam


----------



## Metals406

bigskyjake said:


> Randy, Sam, Paccity, where you at boys? we might've got kicked out of the Chainsaw forum but the party's still goin!


 
What'd I miss? :msp_w00t:


----------



## Sport Faller

Metals406 said:


> What'd I miss? :msp_w00t:


 
NATE!, you're here!
you missed some good ####, there's a locked thread in the chainsaw forum with our tracks all over it, Sam, Randy, and myself are maybe not cool to drive right now


----------



## Sport Faller

mtsamloggit said:


> Just checkin' in on smoke break Jake. Been getting pushed too much for pics lately, but I'll make an effort. Supposed to go to Ovando for a couple days this week and finish the other cutter's job....they're getting their turn in Bozo this week. Virgin timber. Supposedly nice. A bit of rot, but they say it cleans up fast. I'll try and bring the camera. It's just been the typical push to saw ourselves out of a job.....not much time for ####in' off with a camera - Sam


 
very good sir, I'm always up for some tree fallin pics, I was gonna get some pics of me today with the new springboard I made but I chickened out


----------



## Rounder

Actually Jake, the party's right here.

View attachment 198631


Glassfull of Octoberfest, sittln' on the tailgate, cool fall air, and a nice smokey full moon. Hope you all are enjoying your Saturday evening wherever you may be - Sam


----------



## Sport Faller

mtsamloggit said:


> Actually Jake, the party's right here.
> 
> View attachment 198631
> 
> 
> Glassfull of Octoberfest, sittln' on the tailgate, cool fall air, and a nice smokey full moon. Hope you all are enjoying your Saturday evening wherever you may be - Sam


 
Oh, Nice, that's a party that I'd hit up for sure, I spy a 660 and a 440?

just snagged a smoke break myself, had no ciggarettes so I wound up tristing up some apple tabaccy in a reciept


----------



## Rounder

Yep, the two old faithfull workhorses, 44-66.


----------



## Rounder

Well dammit Jake, Nate, Randy, Paccity and all you other associated dingleberries, where are ya? Don't tell me I'm the only one drinking beer, staring at a computer screen because I'm still too damn tired to work up the ambition to take a shower!

Hope you all had a good week, and have a good weekend in store - Sam


----------



## Sport Faller

mtsamloggit said:


> Well dammit Jake, Nate, Randy, Paccity and all you other associated dingleberries, where are ya? Don't tell me I'm the only one drinking beer, staring at a computer screen because I'm still too damn tired to work up the ambition to take a shower!
> 
> Hope you all had a good week, and have a good weekend in store - Sam


 
I'm here man, I'd never let you tackle a Friday night on AS by yourself, I effed up by purchasing a liqour called Rock & Rye, it tastes like what I think Rumplestiltskin might taste like

But i got enough other stuff squirreled away so that I'm not going to have to face up to a Friday night coherently


----------



## Sport Faller

where'd ya go Sam, did you wander off and get eaten by rockchucks :jester:

I know you haven't passed out this early, we're in the same damn timezone and I'm just getting started :jester:


----------



## Rounder

Still kickin' around....filing chain, fussing with airfilters. Still gotta get the axe soaking. Broke the handle off my molly, we'll see how JB weld does with that. Never ending. Hopefully some time to take the dog and look for grouse over the weekend - Sam


----------



## Sport Faller

mtsamloggit said:


> Still kickin' around....filing chain, fussing with airfilters. Still gotta get the axe soaking. Broke the handle off my molly, we'll see how JB weld does with that. Never ending. Hopefully some time to take the dog and look for grouse over the weekend - Sam


 
do you run a ring of grease around th carb where the filter hits? also, do you soak in antifreeze, it's the cats ass, won't shrink back down

wait what, grouse season's open, what day is it?


----------



## Rounder

Been running the max-flows for a while now, the oil in the foam seems to seal things up just fine. Water for the axe, I rarely use it, just pack the molly in the wedge pouch and wedge smart. Leave the axe in the pack. I've heard of the anti-freeze deal though. Interesting.

Now I just gotta double check the double barrel. Grouse hunting tomorow - Sam


----------



## Sport Faller

mtsamloggit said:


> Been running the max-flows for a while now, the oil in the foam seems to seal things up just fine. Water for the axe, I rarely use it, just pack the molly in the wedge pouch and wedge smart. Leave the axe in the pack. I've heard of the anti-freeze deal though. Interesting.
> 
> Now I just gotta double check the double barrel. Grouse hunting tomorow - Sam


 
OK, when I say this I'm serious, not being my normal smartass self: how do you possibly get by thumpin wedges with just a molly, when I'm wedging I look like drunken Roger Maris at batting practice, I've actually thought of packing a bigger axe, every tree that's not a leaner I usually wind up beating my brains out


----------



## Rounder

It took me a looooooong time to wrap my stubborn brain around it, but now i just set a wedge ASAP if I have any doubts. Cut an inch, give it a couple taps. Build tension on the wood fiber and release it. Repeat as many times as nesacary. It seems slower, but at the end of the day the counter says otherwise. Plus, you don't beat your brains out, and you don't go through near as many wedges. If something is really up the hill, I just pre-wedge the ####er. 

If it's severly up the hill or up the hill and dead, I'll cripple it and green wedge it. The best part of just packing the molly and leaving the axe in the pack is that it makes you think every move out.



......Not that I don't hike to the pack and beat my brains out with my axe once a week or so.......


----------



## Sport Faller

mtsamloggit said:


> It took me a looooooong time to wrap my stubborn brain around it, but now i just set a wedge ASAP if I have any doubts. Cut an inch, give it a couple taps. Build tension on the wood fiber and release it. Repeat as many times as nesacary. It seems slower, but at the end of the day the counter says otherwise. Plus, you don't beat your brains out, and you don't go through near as many wedges. If something is really up the hill, I just pre-wedge the ####er.
> 
> If it's severly up the hill or up the hill and dead, I'll cripple it and green wedge it. The best part of just packing the molly and leaving the axe in the pack is that it makes you think every move out.
> 
> 
> 
> ......Not that I don't hike to the pack and beat my brains out with my axe once a week or so.......


 
I'ma have to try that next time I'm out, I go through wedges like a house full of tweekers go through light bulbs


----------



## Rounder

bigskyjake said:


> I'ma have to try that next time I'm out, I go through wedges like a house full of tweekers go through light bulbs


 
Give it a go Jake. I'm not shiittin' ya, when I switched to the molly, my production went up and I stopped buying wedges. It just takes a little time how to figure out how to use the molly properly - Sam


----------



## Sport Faller

mtsamloggit said:


> Give it a go Jake. I'm not shiittin' ya, when I switched to the molly, my production went up and I stopped buying wedges. It just takes a little time how to figure out how to use the molly properly - Sam


 
where'd you score your molly at?
time to bust out the credit card


----------



## Rounder

bigskyjake said:


> where'd you score your molly at?
> time to bust out the credit card


 
If you're gonna pass though Lolo, let me know, the saw shop there stocks them. If not PM me and I'll grab ya one and stick it in the mail for you.


----------



## madhatte

bigskyjake said:


> I go through wedges like a house full of tweekers go through light bulbs



Holy crap, man, that is without a doubt the funniest thing I've heard all week. Lemme catch my breath real quick so I can snicker some more!


----------



## RandyMac

Cut the sound and you won't hear the leftist cant 

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/M5BXTktQyqM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Bastards would not let me grab the code:msp_mad:

Corporate Destruction of America's Forests - YouTube


<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/My8J2STwRX4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

series of still pics.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/UaKdPdNRd84" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


----------



## hammerlogging

Randy, I really liked the steep ground bucking, and the still pics one, including the soundtrack.

I love seeing a sidehill bucked log go a bit.


----------



## Samlock

Oh, those productive, energetic and innocent days are long gone... Hey, wait a minute - they are still cutting OG in South America, West Africa and SE Asia. The occasional tree huggers will be used as the fish baits. If you fancy a piece of action... I wonder why the current real OG fallers are not hanging around here in the AS? Maybe they've got better things to do. Or no computers. Which may be the same thing.


----------



## gavin

I've been in some nice spruce lately.

A spruce from yesterday. Even boring through the undercut couldn't get a small post in the middle. Luckily the pull didn't go in very deep.







A couple from last shift.






One of the blocks I fell. It's almost all 4-6 foot spruce. Nicest block I've been in to date.







View attachment 199470
View attachment 199471
View attachment 199472


----------



## Hddnis

gavin, you are making me start to hate you!


J/K, love the pics, really happy for you getting to cut some nice stuff like that.


Does make me look forward to the next big ones I'll sink a bar into though, no denying that. Largest this year so far was a maple that was 40" about four feet up. 



Mr. HE


----------



## Rounder

Samlock said:


> Oh, those productive, energetic and innocent days are long gone... Hey, wait a minute - they are still cutting OG in South America, West Africa and SE Asia. The occasional tree huggers will be used as the fish baits. If you fancy a piece of action... I wonder why the current real OG fallers are not hanging around here in the AS? Maybe they've got better things to do. Or no computers. Which may be the same thing.


 
Unfortunatly most of us just cut #### 90% of the time, but it pays the bills. No glory, but it pays.

Gavin, that is some beautiful spruce. We get nice spuce in NW Montana, but not that nice....they don't hardly let us cut it here. Great pics - Sam


----------



## hammerlogging

mtsamloggit said:


> Unfortunatly most of us just cut #### 90% of the time, but it pays the bills. No glory, but it pays.
> 
> Gavin, that is some beautiful spruce. We get nice spuce in NW Montana, but not that nice....they don't hardly let us cut it here. Great pics - Sam


 
I'll say my favorite is truthfully ripe bar width about 30" across the stump and all day long. Tall and straight and clean. 

Not all the time, but enough to keep the spirits up. But those pics of Gavin's those are HOT #### and really good looking work. And clean nice stumps and butts dude.

Well, about 12 chains, a clean and prepped saw, 2 clean air filters, a new spark plug, 2 gallons of water and plenty of fuel and bar oil, ready for Monday and then some. Tossed about 5 bar oil jugs in the trash with a bag of diapers I don't know how many folks in the middle of Asheville get to do that, its like I live in ####### Missoula or something!

You'd think the diapers came from the loggers, the way they cry about pulling a little cable cause now were done with the gravy of the job and getting up on the steeps, no I didn't flag you a road through there pull cable #####es!

Have a good week folks!


----------



## Samlock

mtsamloggit said:


> Unfortunatly most of us just cut #### 90% of the time, but it pays the bills. No glory, but it pays.



Tell me about it, pard! The day after tomorrow I'll start a park gig - do you say in America "a walk in the park" meaning a job done smooth and easy? Well, logging in a park, that's #### timber, dog #### to lay your saw on everywhere and #### bums and #### retired people (I beg your pardon, Mrs P) walking their ###### dogs and stuffing #### in the poor logger's #####.

Gavin, it's not that I'm envious or something, but I just googled "apply for Canadian citizenship".

Sam


----------



## paccity

Roma said:


> Recognize this cat?


 
it's not a certain tv star is it?


----------



## STEVEGODSEYJR

It is Mr. Greewedge


----------



## Metals406

Yep, Ol Pat was fix'n to do a chain race there. Wonder how he did?


----------



## Joe46

Looks like he bought a new pair of riggin jeans for the show. At least he stagged his hickory shirt.


----------



## forestryworks

Samlock said:


> I just googled "apply for Canadian citizenship". Sam


 
I heard that!


----------



## forestryworks

Roma said:


> Recognize this cat?


 
Chain looks a little loose in pic 3. 

Thanks for sharing!



Metals406 said:


> Yep, Ol Pat was fix'n to do a chain race there. Wonder how he did?


 
Wonder how his arm is?


----------



## forestryworks

Roma said:


>


 
That gal must like saws. She was at the other logging show you went to.

By god I'm coming to the next one,


----------



## gavin

and an [honest] 8 footer at the end of the job.


----------



## floyd

Big stick. How deep is the hole. Looks like 2' or so.


----------



## Metals406

gavin said:


> and an [honest] 8 footer at the end of the job.


 
You know you're not helping my "Cut chit down" addiction right?


----------



## Sport Faller

Metals406 said:


> You know you're not helping my "Cut chit down" addiction right?


 
that pic is like heroin to a junkie :msp_biggrin:


----------



## dave k

Well no 8' s for me only a load of Sitka Spruce and a few pine so I'm about to start de gunging saws then myself as I seem to be sticking to everything, I'm still down at the yard waiting for the Friday night traffic to die down as I've got about 3 tons of milled Douglas to deliver for a roof on my way home !


----------



## lfnh

Nice pics and equipment. Thanks for sharing.
btw, what bar lengths on the saws ?


----------



## dave k

The 441 is 28", 372 28" and the 461 25". it's a ES Light on the 441 and it really is a good bar it's very nearly as ridgid as a standard ES.


----------



## Sport Faller

Well, it's Friday night, where's the coterie of ne'er do wells
Nate? Sam? Bob? Randy?

I'm already half in the bag, who's with me?


----------



## avason

very nice set up...how in the world did you get that???just wondering.


----------



## Rounder

bigskyjake said:


> Well, it's Friday night, where's the coterie of ne'er do wells
> Nate? Sam? Bob? Randy?
> 
> I'm already half in the bag, who's with me?


 
Just got in from Bridger Crick. 4 hour drive home sucked. East of the divide fir growing straight up the hill at 7600 feet really sucked. I mean sucked. Trying to cripple your way up the hill....waiting for that one going down the hill to set it all off.....not happening......Oktoberfest in the fridge. God damn I'm a whiner ain't I :tongue2: Good to be working though.


Hope you all had a good week - Sam


----------



## Sport Faller

mtsamloggit said:


> Just got in from Bridger Crick. 4 hour drive home sucked. East of the divide fir growing straight up the hill at 7600 feet really sucked. I mean sucked. Trying to cripple your way up the hill....waiting for that one going down the hill to set it all off.....not happening......Oktoberfest in the fridge. God damn I'm a whiner ain't I :tongue2: Good to be working though.
> 
> 
> Hope you all had a good week - Sam


 
4 hour drive blows, you hotel'ed up there during the week right?
what kind o beer is oktoberfest, by the way, how was grouse hunting?


----------



## Rounder

Bayern Oktoberfest. Grouse hunting was slow, good to get the dog out though. She had a ball. We'll try again Sunday morning.


----------



## hammerlogging

bigskyjake said:


> Well, it's Friday night, where's the coterie of ne'er do wells
> Nate? Sam? Bob? Randy?
> 
> I'm already half in the bag, who's with me?


 
Well, I 'm sitting in a marginal hotel in a former hometown, wife's out with the crew for a baby shower, I am parenting, fortunately the liquor store next door had some cheap deals on some Magnums. 

Sam, I'm on a FSC job now, I have a target basal area and a target prescription, the rest is up to me. When it comes to leave trees, every one is either
1. leaning up the hill
2. has some POS dead sketch-o hanger in it
3. is a cull (i.ee wildlife i.e. heritage tree)
4. is under the minimum diameter
5. Is a nice tree left so that every leave tree doesn't look like 1 2 3 or 4.

Its been a pretty killer job with ripe not oversize timber. I'll try and sneak some pics next week, why not.


----------



## Rounder

Sounds very familiar Joe. I had the last strip in the unit today....they allow for compensation.....today's strip was pretty nice....I mowed it. Left a lot in the last strip....all good in my eyes. Gotta take it when you can get it.


----------



## gavin

floyd said:


> Big stick. How deep is the hole. Looks like 2' or so.


 
Sometimes you're in a rush and miss the guts. If you'd like to give lessons, I'm all ears.


----------



## floyd

I think we have all done it.

I was curious about it affecting scale.

I try to stay & saw all the way through. Not always possible, as you probably know.


----------



## gavin

Sadly, this wood is going export. The quality control guys said the buyers will be concerned with the clean cutting on the outside, and the heartwood with the knots will end up being mostly cull or pulp. I fell it with a 42" bar, put in an undercut deeper than bar length and bored through it, and strapped it. Missed a bit of the middle. The helicopter was on its way to pick me up. The tree had barely settled and I was running to the pad. I admit that bit of pull is somewhat shoddy workmanship, but I wouldn't say its the end of the world. I posted the picture because an 8 foot diameter spruce isn't something we run into every day. I welcome constructive criticism. It's hard to read attitudes over the internet but I took your comment as a bit of a smart-ass comment. If that wasn't the intention, then my mistake.

This isn't related to your post, but in general I'm always hesitant to be a part of forums like this or post things on youtube only to be harassed by amateurs or weekend warriors with resumes built on embellished half truths telling guys how they should have done things.


----------



## gavin

Samlock said:


> Tell me about it, pard! The day after tomorrow I'll start a park gig - do you say in America "a walk in the park" meaning a job done smooth and easy? Well, logging in a park, that's #### timber, dog #### to lay your saw on everywhere and #### bums and #### retired people (I beg your pardon, Mrs P) walking their ###### dogs and stuffing #### in the poor logger's #####.
> 
> Gavin, it's not that I'm envious or something, but I just googled "apply for Canadian citizenship".
> 
> Sam


 
I've worked with a few guys that have moved here from Europe. I imagine there's a headache of paperwork involved though.


----------



## Rounder

This isn't related to your post, but in general I'm always hesitant to be a part of forums like this or post things on youtube only to be harassed by amateurs or weekend warriors with resumes built on embellished half truths telling guys how they should have done things.[/QUOTE]

Don't hesitate to post pics here, I for one enjoy them. It's nice to see someone is getting some nice timber somewhere. Always a few jackasses around, but they usually get run off quick.

Looked like good work to me, I never let a pot-licker Monday moring quarterback my work. Keep posting the pics, beautiful country you got there - Sam


----------



## paccity

mtsamloggit said:


> This isn't related to your post, but in general I'm always hesitant to be a part of forums like this or post things on youtube only to be harassed by amateurs or weekend warriors with resumes built on embellished half truths telling guys how they should have done things.


 
Don't hesitate to post pics here, I for one enjoy them. It's nice to see someone is getting some nice timber somewhere. Always a few jackasses around, but they usually get run off quick.

Looked like good work to me, I never let a pot-licker Monday moring quarterback my work. Keep posting the pics, beautiful country you got there - Sam[/QUOTE]

i agree sam. but we are all alittle bit of smart asses around here. comes with the terottry , just sort threw the trolls. . keep them coming gavin.


----------



## Gologit

Gavin, your pictures are welcome here. Not too many guys are putting down wood of that size on a regular basis. The people who know this business appreciate what you're doing.


----------



## Rounder

gavin said:


> I've been in some nice spruce lately.
> 
> A spruce from yesterday. Even boring through the undercut couldn't get a small post in the middle. Luckily the pull didn't go in very deep.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just noticed that you have the same pack as I do......those things are awesome, huh?


----------



## lfnh

gavin said:


> *Sadly, this wood is going export. * The quality control guys said they buyers will be concerned with the clean cutting on the outside, and the heartwood with the knots ends will end up being mostly cull or pulp. I fell it with a 42" bar, put in an undercut deeper than bar length and bored through it, and strapped it. Missed a bit of the middle. The helicopter was on its way to pick me up. The tree had barely settled and I was running to the pad. I admit that bit of pull is somewhat shoddy workmanship, but I wouldn't say its the end of the world. I posted the picture because an 8 foot diameter spruce isn't something we run into every day. I welcome constructive criticism. It's hard to read attitudes over the internet but I took your comment as a bit of a smart-ass comment. If that wasn't the intention, then my mistake.
> 
> This isn't related to your post, but in general I'm always hesitant to be a part of forums like this or post things on youtube only to be harassed by amateurs or weekend warriors with resumes built on embellished half truths telling guys how they should have done things.


 
Is the export tied to fewer mills, stumpage versus delivered costs, changing demand for species, or off shore overbidding ? By way of interest there is another thread going where there seems to be regional variations some of which is high stumpage pinching delivered log prices. Just interested in your take up there. Thanks for the photos. Lee


----------



## floyd

I was simply referring to losing scale.

As I stated, we have all done it at some time or another.


----------



## gavin

mtsamloggit said:


> Just noticed that you have the same pack as I do......those things are awesome, huh?


 
Yeah they're tough and pretty waterproof. Switzerland army surplus. Lots of guys up here use them.



lfnh said:


> Is the export tied to fewer mills, stumpage versus delivered costs, changing demand for species, or off shore overbidding ? By way of interest there is another thread going where there seems to be regional variations some of which is high stumpage pinching delivered log prices. Just interested in your take up there. Thanks for the photos. Lee



My understanding is that it's just a quicker, easier dollar, and also easier to sell. The companies don't have to deal with the work of milling and selling the lumber and they don't have to fight with softwood tariffs. I also understand that China/Japan/USA will pay a little more for the nice wood than domestic mills will. I personally think selling them raw is short term thinking and a quick buck for speculators and I don't really like to see the jobs and added value go overseas, but I'm not paid to make these kind of decisions.



floyd said:


> I was simply referring to losing scale.
> 
> As I stated, we have all done it at some time or another.


 
Roger.


----------



## madhatte

gavin said:


> I personally think selling them raw is short term thinking and a quick buck for speculators and I don't really like to see the jobs and added value go overseas


 
That gets a double "Amen!" from me.


----------



## Gologit

gavin said:


> My understanding is that it's just a quicker, easier dollar, and also easier to sell. I personally think selling them raw is short term thinking and a quick buck for speculators and I don't really like to see the jobs and added value go overseas, but I'm not paid to make these kind of decisions.


 
Well said. We export quite a bit from California also. I think that, long term, we're shooting ourselves in the foot.


----------



## madhatte

It's not just the exports, it's also the effin' REITs -- sell timber, sell lumber, sell houses, sell land, wash hands of it all -- it's just a fancy new modern version of "cut and run" where crappy tract houses are left to hide the evidence, and the stockholders make money four times instead of only two. The Private Sector has a few good outfits still, but they're few and far between, and gov't agencies are so hamstrung with their own regulations trying to be everything to everybody that it's a wonder any trees get cut at all. It's a frustrating time to be in this industry.


----------



## forestryworks

madhatte said:


> and gov't agencies are so hamstrung with their own regulations trying to be everything to everybody that it's a wonder any trees get cut at all.



For damn sure.

"I can only please one person per day, and today ain't your day!" How it oughta be. Or turn it over to the public - for real - have a public working forest model.

The gov. forest industry is now trending toward solely being researched based, who's gonna pick up the slack for the operations base?

Can't NOT log. It will always be cheaper to build with wood.


----------



## Rounder

forestryworks said:


> For damn sure.
> 
> "I can only please one person per day, and today ain't your day!" How it oughta be. Or turn it over to the public - for real - have a public working forest model.
> 
> The gov. forest industry is now trending toward solely being researched based, who's gonna pick up the slack for the operations base?
> 
> Can't NOT log. It will always be cheaper to build with wood.


 
No worries JC, we'll just let the 3rd world countries rape their forests to make up for our lack of production. The enviros won't notice it there.


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## Sport Faller

Not a great pic or a monster tree but I'm posting it up because I'm damn proud. It's my brother in the process of dumping his first tree


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## Metals406

bigskyjake said:


> Not a great pic or a monster tree but I'm posting it up because I'm damn proud. It's my brother in the process of dumping his first tree


 
Jake, show your gwasshopper "lefty-righty". If he throttles with the left hand, and handles with the right (from the left side), he can get behind his work a little, and not be crossed up like he is in the pick. . . It's more comfortable, and you can see far side better, as well as about everything else. It'll also help to level the saw, and gun.

It's also good practice to be ambidextrous.


----------



## Sport Faller

Metals406 said:


> Jake, show your gwasshopper "lefty-righty". If he throttles with the left hand, and handles with the right (from the left side), he can get behind his work a little, and not be crossed up like he is in the pick. . . It's more comfortable, and you can see far side better, as well as about everything else. It'll also help to level the saw, and gun.
> 
> It's also good practice to be ambidextrous.


 
Oh damn, I never even thought of that but I can see what you're talking about, I'm pretty much a Gween Gwasshoppah myself

also, I kept telling him to level it out a little more (front to back and up and down) but i guess that'll come with more practice, he did seem pretty much jazzed up to be fallin a tree tho, so I may have given my bro a new addiction


----------



## forestryworks

Metals406 said:


> Jake, show your gwasshopper "lefty-righty". If he throttles with the left hand, and handles with the right (from the left side), he can get behind his work a little, and not be crossed up like he is in the pick. . . It's more comfortable, and you can see far side better, as well as about everything else. It'll also help to level the saw, and gun.
> 
> It's also good practice to be ambidextrous.


 
That's what I was gonna say.

If he flipped his hands around, he'd be more upright. 

As with the undercut, square yo chest up to that tree, boy.


----------



## 056 kid

Metals406 said:


> Jake, show your gwasshopper "lefty-righty". If he throttles with the left hand, and handles with the right (from the left side), he can get behind his work a little, and not be crossed up like he is in the pick. . . It's more comfortable, and you can see far side better, as well as about everything else. It'll also help to level the saw, and gun.
> 
> It's also good practice to be ambidextrous.


 
nit picking aren't you? by the time he settled into that stance, the tree would be on the ground.


----------



## Metals406

056 kid said:


> nit picking aren't you? by the time he settled into that stance, the tree would be on the ground.


 
Nope, I'm not nitpicking gwasshawpah. You know why Ol Pat will bust a knot in your butt falling timber? Technique. . . Refined technique. . . No wasted movement. You'll be rushing through the woods like a chicken with his head cut off, and you'll still get whooped by technique -- every time.

Why practice the wrong way, when you can practice the right way?

You can't tell me that cutting crossed up is more comfortable, or better. If you have to relearn things in the future, THAT is a big waste of time.


----------



## forestryworks

056 kid said:


> nit picking


 
Hardly.


----------



## 056 kid

Metals406 said:


> Nope, I'm not nitpicking gwasshawpah. You know why Ol Pat will bust a knot in your butt falling timber? Technique. . . Refined technique. . . No wasted movement. You'll be rushing through the woods like a chicken with his head cut off, and you'll still get whooped by technique -- every time.
> 
> Why practice the wrong way, when you can practice the right way?
> 
> You can't tell me that cutting crossed up is more comfortable, or better. If you have to relearn things in the future, THAT is a big waste of time.


 
I don't know what to say, not gonna disrespect cause I don't know you. But, for all practical purposes, you can #### off one or come and show me the proper technique.


----------



## paccity

awwww. can't we all just get along.:msp_wink:


----------



## Sport Faller

I surely had no intention of posting up that pic of my bro to start strife here, I was just proud as hell of him for wanting to step up to the plate and take a swing


----------



## paccity

don't make me make you guy's go outside and fall a tree.:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## OregonSawyer

I think most people in the Timber industry are callused enough that this kind of banter is the norm. At least in my experience it is....


----------



## paccity

OregonSawyer said:


> I think most people in the Timber industry are callused enough that this kind of banter is the norm. At least in my experience it is....


 
i know. just givin them crap.


----------



## Metals406

056 kid said:


> I don't know what to say, not gonna disrespect cause I don't know you. But, for all practical purposes, you can #### off one or come and show me the proper technique.


 
Easy big fella. . . Don't want ya spillin' your beer.


----------



## dave k

I've spent the last two days back at the same job as last Thurs and Fri for more Sitka Spruce and Contorted Pine. We used the winch on the tractor to pull some through the trees being left so the hinges are quite large. Sitka are no fun on a hot day !
A fair bit of the timber has gone from site all as firewood. Tomorrow Im up in the biggest University in the country felling trees ready for an building extention so more than likley get some abuse for being a tree killer and all round bad person !!


----------



## lfnh

Thanks for sharing the pictures.
..the hell with the protestors.


----------



## Samlock

dave k said:


> Tomorrow Im up in the biggest University in the country felling trees ready for an building extention so more than likley get some abuse for being a tree killer and all round bad person !!


 
Tomorrow will be Saturday? Don't worry, if I know anything about the universities (I should), Trinity College students will be in bed having a massive headache, or they are up to get one, so the'll not be there witnessing an Orangeman marching in.


----------



## D&B Mack

*Posted Up*



dave k said:


> I've spent the last two days back at the same job as last Thurs and Fri for more Sitka Spruce and Contorted Pine. We used the winch on the tractor to pull some through the trees being left so the hinges are quite large. Sitka are no fun on a hot day !
> A fair bit of the timber has gone from site all as firewood. Tomorrow Im up in the biggest University in the country felling trees ready for an building extention so more than likley get some abuse for being a tree killer and all round bad person !!


----------



## paccity

dave k said:


> I've spent the last two days back at the same job as last Thurs and Fri for more Sitka Spruce and Contorted Pine. We used the winch on the tractor to pull some through the trees being left so the hinges are quite large. Sitka are no fun on a hot day !
> A fair bit of the timber has gone from site all as firewood. Tomorrow Im up in the biggest University in the country felling trees ready for an building extention so more than likley get some abuse for being a tree killer and all round bad person !!


 
like to have that unimog in the one pic. good job though.


----------



## rwoods

paccity said:


> like to have that unimog in the one pic. good job though.


 
Mog caught my eye too. Who needs a tractor if you have a big Mog! Ron


----------



## madhatte

Love Mogs. I WILL own one someday.


----------



## hammerlogging

056 kid said:


> nit picking aren't you? by the time he settled into that stance, the tree would be on the ground.



Yup. I'm going with the kid on this one, it was like a 12" tree.


----------



## 2dogs

Metals406 said:


> Nope, I'm not nitpicking gwasshawpah. You know why Ol Pat will bust a knot in your butt falling timber? Technique. . . Refined technique. . . No wasted movement. You'll be rushing through the woods like a chicken with his head cut off, and you'll still get whooped by technique -- every time.
> 
> Why practice the wrong way, when you can practice the right way?
> 
> You can't tell me that cutting crossed up is more comfortable, or better. If you have to relearn things in the future, THAT is a big waste of time.


 
Yep. Slow is smooth and smooth is fast. Technique!


----------



## bitzer

Good Morning Gentleman! I don't mean to butt in like a jackass after not a word for months, but I been kinda busy. Started calling around in July lookin to get hired on a crew. Unless you're family or juiced in some how forget it around here. So I deceided to start my own show. With a few consultations from Hammer and a lot of signing my life away I've been manufacturing logs under my own name for a few weeks now. I've got a few more decent red oaks like this left in this stand that I will be hittin next week. This last week sucked with lots of rain and wind. Maintainence time on the machine. Doin some welding today and gettin ready for a dry week next week. Hopefully I can stop in more often. I may need a skidder operator soon. LONG days alone, but man its nice to be in the woods everyday!













View attachment 201133


View attachment 201134


----------



## dave k

Bitzer I wish you all the best, it's hard work on your own but atleast it's for yourself !


----------



## Gologit

bitzer said:


> Good Morning Gentleman! I don't mean to butt in like a jackass after not a word for months, but I been kinda busy. Started calling around in July lookin to get hired on a crew. Unless you're family or juiced in some how forget it around here. So I deceided to start my own show. With a few consultations from Hammer and a lot of signing my life away I've been manufacturing logs under my own name for a few weeks now. I've got a few more decent red oaks like this left in this stand that I will be hittin next week. This last week sucked with lots of rain and wind. Maintainence time on the machine. Doin some welding today and gettin ready for a dry week next week. Hopefully I can stop in more often. I may need a skidder operator soon. LONG days alone, but man its nice to be in the woods everyday!


 
Uh oh, sounds like you got bitten bad by the logging bug. I had a feeling that was going to happen to you. 

Welcome to our world. Just keep repeating to yourself "it's not about money, it's not about money". In fact, make that your morning mantra. If you ever stop and figure your hourly wage you'll get depressed knowing that the kid who changes the french frie oil at MacDonalds probably makes more than you do. 

Have fun. Keep being safe.


----------



## Joe46

Best of luck to you. Stay safe!


----------



## hammerlogging

1. Congratulations to Bitzer

and

2. Cheers to my sweet wife. As she fled to get our good little boy back to sleep I decided to fold her laundry. I found saw chips in her clothes. Never even heard one complaint about that in the past.

Now, know she thinks I'm crazy for what I do, but no complaining. Cheers to that.


----------



## sierratree

it's what we do..........View attachment 201353


----------



## lfnh

Best damn pic of what *looking up* means paying attention to what the top is telling ya.
Like the strapping too.


----------



## sierratree

Thank you......wouldn't want to learn the hard way....just wanted to keep my teeth.


----------



## Sport Faller

A video of me dumping an ok sized larch today, I know I probably did about 50 things wrong so let er rip, I'm not posting this up to show what I'm doing right, I'm posting it up to see what I'm doing wrong

larch1 0001 - YouTube


----------



## dave k

Thanks D&B for poststing up my pics, Philbert gave me the instructions on how to do it but I must be exceptionaly thick as I cannot seem to get it right !!
The Mog in the pics belongs to the guy (also friend) who got me in for a couple of days and although they are a great bit of gear when they go wrong they can be very expensive and awkward to fix. The one in the pic is only 140 hp and has a 9" chipper on the back along with air suspension to cope with the extra weight. Another pal a few miles away has a 160 hp one with 10" chipper and drops that off for a timber trailer with 3 ton hiab ( knuckleboom) with timber grab. There is another customer down the country that has a 220 hp mog and uses a Vermeer BC 1000 behind it ? 
I never went for a Mog instead I ran Merc 920 4wd with a 7 ton hyd winch up front and large box chip body and a Vermeer BC 1400. The truck was an ex UK rescue fire tender and boy could it tow ! 200 hp and 3 speed auto box was easier to drive than my jeep !
The job on Saturday was called off due to very bad rain so now on tomorrow, great loads of students around to complain !!
Today just had a Yew to fall ready for the mill, it had a back lean and took some hard work on the wedges to put it over alhough it won't look much in the pic !!


----------



## Metals406

bigskyjake said:


> A video of me dumping an ok sized larch today, I know I probably did about 50 things wrong so let er rip, I'm not posting this up to show what I'm doing right, I'm posting it up to see what I'm doing wrong
> 
> larch1 0001 - YouTube


 
The 038 was running good. . . But the 460 was fat.

Did you cut your hinge off? Do you see how the tree rocked on the wedges -- it shouldn't do that of you have a good hinge.

Cut up to about two inches, and stop, whack the wedges a few times, then if she won't go over, tickle the hinge a little, and wedge more (if needed). That hinge is needed, especially on dead wood.


----------



## Sport Faller

Metals406 said:


> The 038 was running good. . . But the 460 was fat.
> 
> Did you cut your hinge off? Do you see how the tree rocked on the wedges -- it shouldn't do that of you have a good hinge.
> 
> Cut up to about two inches, and stop, whack the wedges a few times, then if she won't go over, tickle the hinge a little, and wedge more (if needed). That hinge is needed, especially on dead wood.


 
I'm always afraid of running the 460 too lean, I need to quit being a chiken#### and leave it tuned 

yeah i got a little hungry with the hinge on the far side, had about an inch or so left on the near side/middle

dude, where I dumped thissen, there's still plenty of his dead friends still upright


----------



## Metals406

bigskyjake said:


> I'm always afraid of running the 460 too lean, I need to quit being a chiken#### and leave it tuned
> 
> yeah i got a little hungry with the hinge on the far side, had about an inch or so left on the near side/middle
> 
> dude, where I dumped thissen, there's still plenty of his dead friends still upright


 
Where about's was that? Was it up Sylvia side or Griffin side?

Back outside I go to weld more. I'll check back in in a few. . . Fricken no-see-em bugs are baaaad outside, I needed a thorough coating of Deet. :msp_mad:


----------



## Sport Faller

Metals406 said:


> Where about's was that? Was it up Sylvia side or Griffin side?
> 
> Back outside I go to weld more. I'll check back in in a few. . . Fricken no-see-em bugs are baaaad outside, I needed a thorough coating of Deet. :msp_mad:


 
Griffin side, bout 4 miles past Lupine Lake trailhead

Also, damn near knocked myself out today, ate #### bigtime with a saw on my shoulder and caught a couple dogs to the back of the head, bled for about 10 minutes and now I have a couple goose eggs


----------



## Metals406

bigskyjake said:


> Griffin side, bout 4 miles past Lupine Lake trailhead
> 
> Also, damn near knocked myself out today, ate #### bigtime with a saw on my shoulder and caught a couple dogs to the back of the head, bled for about 10 minutes and now I have a couple goose eggs


 
That's right by the Sylvia Lake turnoff ain't it?

Dang son. . . Glad it wasn't worse! That's a bad place to hurt yourself, and be alone. Ain't nobody for miles up there.

You got a CB in the truck?


----------



## Sport Faller

Metals406 said:


> That's right by the Sylvia Lake turnoff ain't it?
> 
> Dang son. . . Glad it wasn't worse! That's a bad place to hurt yourself, and be alone. Ain't nobody for miles up there.
> 
> You got a CB in the truck?


 
yessir, the sign said Little Wolf Fire (it was shot to #### so maybe?) i think

nah no cb, if I wasn't so clumsy (or started making my lazy ass wear my calks) I'd be like a damn gazelle, son!


----------



## Sport Faller

here's a dougie from today too, I shoulda been looking up at least a little bit

dougfir1 0001 - YouTube


----------



## Metals406

bigskyjake said:


> yessir, the sign said Little Wolf Fire (it was shot to #### so maybe?) i think
> 
> nah no cb, if I wasn't so clumsy (or started making my lazy ass wear my calks) I'd be like a damn gazelle, son!


 
Yer part Mountin' goat eh? 

Yup, that's the turnoff. . . I know the trees you cut on. They're not the easiest to get to, and that's the only reason they were still there.

They grow some big Whities in that area too!


----------



## Metals406

bigskyjake said:


> here's a dougie from today too, I shoulda been looking up at least a little bit
> 
> dougfir1 0001 - YouTube


 
She tricked ya a little there. . . "I'm falling. . . Oh, no I'm not."


----------



## Sport Faller

Metals406 said:


> Yer part Mountin' goat eh?
> 
> Yup, that's the turnoff. . . I know the trees you cut on. They're not the easiest to get to, and that's the only reason they were still there.
> 
> They grow some big Whities in that area too!


 
it's weird these were on a nice gentle slope (made sure they were uphill from the road incase I got dinged up it'd be an easier walk to the rig) not far from the road, the dougie you could see from the road and it looked like crap until you got up to it but it was abot 27" across the butt, the larch you could see from the stump of the doug and it was about 37"


----------



## OregonSawyer

Metals406 said:


> Did you cut your hinge off? Do you see how the tree rocked on the wedges -- it shouldn't do that of you have a good hinge.
> 
> Cut up to about two inches, and stop, whack the wedges a few times, then if she won't go over, tickle the hinge a little, and wedge more (if needed). That hinge is needed, especially on dead wood.


 
Yeah, I was gonna say it looked like that hinge was a little rotten or something. When wedged, it just broke right off.

I'm no expert myself (as I try to make perfectly clear on here) but I am good friends with a couple of old-timers that I try to absorb knowledge from at any chance.

Anyway, at least you're out there getting practice and experience, Jake. If it weren't for damned Physics and Calculus maybe I could get out more!

Keep the vids and pictures coming! Everybody (myself definitely included) learns more with a greater amount of material to study. :msp_thumbsup:


----------



## Sport Faller

Metals406 said:


> She tricked ya a little there. . . "I'm falling. . . Oh, no I'm not."


 
LOL, I feel like somebody should've jumped outta the brush and hit me "2 for flinching"


----------



## Sport Faller

Also, a question for everyone that cuts larch .... HOW THE #### do you deal with your b&c become one globular nasty hunk after about 1 minute of cutting, my 038 was froze so damn solid I had to pry it apart at home after taking the clutch cover off


----------



## forestryworks

bigskyjake said:


> here's a dougie from today too, I shoulda been looking up at least a little bit
> 
> dougfir1 0001 - YouTube


 
Gettin' better, more and more practice and you'll get some fluid movements.

+5 for having the PPE on.

Now go practice more! Find a faller to tag along with, pack his gear around. Observe, observe, ask some questions, and observe some more.

Keep at it!


----------



## Metals406

bigskyjake said:


> Also, a question for everyone that cuts larch .... HOW THE #### do you deal with your b&c become one globular nasty hunk after about 1 minute of cutting, my 038 was froze so damn solid I had to pry it apart at home after taking the clutch cover off


 
Run ATF in your bar oil. . . I do 1qt of ATF, to 3qts bar oil. It also thins it nicely for winter cutting.

There are detergents in the ATF that keeps everything moving.


----------



## Sport Faller

Metals406 said:


> Run ATF in your bar oil. . . I do 1qt of ATF, to 3qts bar oil. It also thins it nicely for winter cutting.
> 
> There are detergents in the ATF that keeps everything moving.


 
Thanks Man 

Does the ATF blend with the bar oil OK?

I'm guessing you have to shake the ever loving piss out of it


----------



## Sport Faller

forestryworks said:


> Gettin' better, more and more practice and you'll get some fluid movements.
> 
> +5 for having the PPE on.
> 
> Now go practice more! Find a faller to tag along with, pack his gear around. Observe, observe, ask some questions, and observe some more.
> 
> Keep at it!


 
Thankee Jameson

I guess I'm not sure how I'd go about that, are we talking just roll in to a logging company's office and ask if I can shadow one of their fallers for a while ?


----------



## slowp

Your chaps and hat match kind of, and you are wearing suspenders so we are not shocked by seeing male cleavage. 

Now, don't know if this bothers anybody else, but I do not like to see people making the final cut and standing on the downhill side of the tree, even where it isn't much of a downhill. I doesn't seem like a very good habit to get into.


----------



## Sport Faller

slowp said:


> Your chaps and hat match kind of, and you are wearing suspenders so we are not shocked by seeing male cleavage.
> 
> Now, don't know if this bothers anybody else, but I do not like to see people making the final cut and standing on the downhill side of the tree, even where it isn't much of a downhill. I doesn't seem like a very good habit to get into.


 
Yeah I gots to wear spenders, I do at work too, I have a total lack of man ass

which vid you talkin about, the fir?

It was a bit of an optical illusion, the side I was on was probably less than 6-7 inches lower than the uphill side, I can definately see what your talking about though, when she goes if it decides to roll a little it's gonna get taken over by gravity for sure


----------



## Gologit

bigskyjake said:


> here's a dougie from today too, I shoulda been looking up at least a little bit
> 
> dougfir1 0001 - YouTube


 
Okay, since everybody else is picking on you I will, too. :msp_biggrin:

Look at your video about 26 seconds in. The tree was basically sawed up right there. You hung in a little bit, probably to square up your hinge, but you stayed too long. The hinge looks real thin...too thin for absolute control if a gust of wind had caught it. With too thin a hinge a tree can go sideways on you. It's also too easy to cut the corner off with a thin hinge.

Patience, Grasshopper, patience.


----------



## Sport Faller

Gologit said:


> *Okay, since everybody else is picking on you I will, too*. :msp_biggrin:
> 
> Look at your video about 26 seconds in. The tree was basically sawed up right there. You hung in a little bit, probably to square up your hinge, but you stayed too long. The hinge looks real thin...too thin for absolute control if a gust of wind had caught it. With too thin a hinge a tree can go sideways on you. It's also too easy to cut the corner off with a thin hinge.
> 
> Patience, Grasshopper, patience.


 
Hey, that's what I posted em up for, I had expected a helluva lot more ass chewins and whatnot 

Gotcha, should I wedge it a touch next time instead of thinning the hinge more?

I think the reason it might've hung up was I missed some wood on the camera side when I started out and there was about a 3 inch strap on the outside (the part i got at the end when i reached over again)


----------



## forestryworks

bigskyjake said:


> Gotcha, should I wedge it a touch next time instead of thinning the hinge more?


 
Watch that top, it'll tell you what's going on and in time you'll learn what to do. That's why you gotta look up.

Get into the habit of palming a wedge into the backcut as soon as there is room... until you get up to snuff on leans and center of gravity and all that happy horse####.


----------



## Gologit

bigskyjake said:


> Hey, that's what I posted em up for, I had expected a helluva lot more ass chewins and whatnot
> 
> Gotcha, should I wedge it a touch next time instead of thinning the hinge more?
> 
> I think the reason it might've hung up was I missed some wood on the camera side when I started out and there was about a 3 inch strap on the outside (the part i got at the end when i reached over again)


 
A wedge wouldn't hurt but I don't think you really needed one on that tree. When they start to go over and stall out it should be a major red flag to you that the hinge isn't right. Sawing them up a little might help but it's real easy to over-do it. It just takes time, and mistakes, to learn. You're doing alright.

And, speaking of mistakes, I can see at least four major things done wrong by the old fart in the video below. Number 1 was chasing the hinge on a heavy leaner and never quite catching it. Number 2 was the choice of cut...it should have been bored and tripped or maybe a Coos Bay instead of a conventional back cut. Can you see the other two?


[video=youtube;f7kvbqxUIsQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7kvbqxUIsQ[/video]


----------



## Metals406

bigskyjake said:


> Thanks Man
> 
> Does the ATF blend with the bar oil OK?
> 
> I'm guessing you have to shake the ever loving piss out of it


 
I find it stays all mixed after the initial shake. . . Might not hurt to do it before ya cut for the day though.


----------



## Sport Faller

Gologit said:


> A wedge wouldn't hurt but I don't think you really needed one on that tree. When they start to go over and stall out it should be a major red flag to you that the hinge isn't right. Sawing them up a little might help but it's real easy to over-do it. It just takes time, and mistakes, to learn. You're doing alright.
> 
> And, speaking of mistakes, I can see at least four major things done wrong by the old fart in the video below. Number 1 was chasing the hinge on a heavy leaner and never quite catching it. Number 2 was the choice of cut...it should have been bored and tripped or maybe a Coos Bay instead of a conventional back cut. Can you see the other two?
> 
> 
> [video=youtube;f7kvbqxUIsQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7kvbqxUIsQ[/video]


 
dang, not really 

maybe look up a little more and it looked like there wasn't a whole helluva lot of stumpshot, wait, the face didn't really look deep and steep enough


----------



## Metals406

Gologit said:


> A wedge wouldn't hurt but I don't think you really needed one on that tree. When they start to go over and stall out it should be a major red flag to you that the hinge isn't right. Sawing them up a little might help but it's real easy to over-do it. It just takes time, and mistakes, to learn. You're doing alright.
> 
> And, speaking of mistakes, I can see at least four major things done wrong by the old fart in the video below. Number 1 was chasing the hinge on a heavy leaner and never quite catching it. Number 2 was the choice of cut...it should have been bored and tripped or maybe a Coos Bay instead of a conventional back cut. Can you see the other two?
> 
> 
> [video=youtube;f7kvbqxUIsQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7kvbqxUIsQ[/video]


 
3- You didn't start the video with, "Hold mah beer, and watch this!". 
4- Patty wasn't there telling you that you forgot to attach the ticket to the butt. How does it go? Staple-fold-fold-staple-staple-staple-fold-staple. 



On a serious note. . . You cut the far side by feel instead of looking, and over cut the near side? Hell I don't know.


----------



## Sport Faller

Metals406 said:


> 3- You didn't start the video with, "Hold mah beer, and watch this!".
> 4- Patty wasn't there telling you that you forgot to attach the ticket to the butt. How does it go? Staple-fold-fold-staple-staple-staple-fold-staple.
> 
> 
> 
> On a serious note. . . You cut the far side by feel instead of looking, and over cut the near side? *Hell I don't know*.


 
I know, right, I don't really feel justified in critiquing Bob's video. I feel like Bob's gonna come through my screen and crack the #### out of me with a ruler if I give the wrong answer :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## slowp

He failed to look at the camera and cock his hardhat. The second error would be not saying "All righty, that's a wrap." at the end.


----------



## hammerlogging

Gologit said:


> And, speaking of mistakes, I can see at least four major things done wrong by the old fart in the video below. Number 1 was chasing the hinge on a heavy leaner and never quite catching it. Number 2 was the choice of cut...it should have been bored and tripped or maybe a Coos Bay instead of a conventional back cut. Can you see the other two?



cutting on the underside and hitch hiking the left thumb- or wait, did you just open this up to find out how many more than 4 things there are wrong?


----------



## Sport Faller

slowp said:


> He failed to look at the camera and cock his hardhat. The second error would be not saying "All righty, that's a wrap." at the end.


 
Oh hell yeah, Pat's video is on the top of my favorites list on youtube


----------



## slowp

Ooooh, I think I know of one. The GOL guy would rap you with his axe handle for your thumb position. Or is that the camera angle?


----------



## madhatte

forestryworks said:


> Watch that top, it'll tell you what's going on and in time you'll learn what to do. That's why you gotta look up.
> 
> Get into the habit of palming a wedge into the backcut as soon as there is room...


 
Yes and yes. Don't forget that that wedge sitting there, even if you don't need it for leverage, is also able to act as a "bobber" to tell you when the top starts a-movin' -- if you don't happen to be looking up at that moment. This is a very useful feedback loop.


----------



## Sport Faller

madhatte said:


> Yes and yes. Don't forget that that wedge sitting there, even if you don't need it for leverage, is also able to act as a "bobber" to tell you when the top starts a-movin' -- if you don't happen to be looking up at that moment. This is a very useful feedback loop.


 
I guess I never thought of the bobber thing, hell, the K&H's are even the right color scheme


----------



## Metals406

I think we pissed Bob off, he ain't answered yet.


----------



## Sport Faller

Metals406 said:


> I think we pissed Bob off, he ain't answered yet.


 
I think he's shaking his head and muttering about Montana kids that ate a ####load of paintchips when they were little and used binoculars to stare at the sun


----------



## madhatte

Uh, no, that was me.


----------



## paccity

an't even goin there. i'll let everybody else take the rapp.


----------



## Gologit

bigskyjake said:


> dang, not really
> 
> maybe look up a little more and it looked like there wasn't a whole helluva lot of stumpshot, wait, the face didn't really look deep and steep enough


 
I said _two_ things, dammit.  But you're pretty close. The face was okay but it could have been a little wider. The main thing I see wrong is _not_ sawing it up a little more. And not sawing faster. It wasn't going for a saw log but that's no excuse for sloppy work.

Notice how it stalled out? Too _much_ hinge. But it was starting to go, and it was really talking,and I was thinking it might 'chair and I _still_ couldn't catch the hinge so I just bailed out. That's how you get to be 65 years old in this business.

It's very seldom that I fall a tree and think that everything went perfectly. Some times close enough is good enough but I always try to get it right. As you get more experience you'll be better able to critique your own work. Every tree is a school.

And, since I'm in my Old Fart Lecture mode anyway, I'll throw in one more little piece of advice. You can fall a hundred trees perfectly and that 101st will absolutely humble you for days afterwards. And it should.


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> Ooooh, I think I know of one. The GOL guy would rap you with his axe handle for your thumb position. Or is that the camera angle?


 
No that's an arthritic thumb that's been broken twice. Another one of God's little door-prizes for loggers.


----------



## madhatte

Gologit said:


> You can fall a hundred trees perfectly and that 101st will absolutely humble you for days afterwards. And it should.



That's the kind of advice that pays for itself forever. If it saves so much as a single mistake, all this blow-hardery was worth it.


----------



## Hddnis

Gologit said:


> I said _two_ things, dammit.  But you're pretty close. The face was okay but it could have been a little wider. The main thing I see wrong is _not_ sawing it up a little more. And not sawing faster. It wasn't going for a saw log but that's no excuse for sloppy work.
> 
> Notice how it stalled out? Too _much_ hinge. But it was starting to go, and it was really talking,and I was thinking it might 'chair and I _still_ couldn't catch the hinge so I just bailed out. That's how you get to be 65 years old in this business.
> 
> *It's very seldom that I fall a tree and think that everything went perfectly. Some times close enough is good enough but I always try to get it right. As you get more experience you'll be better able to critique your own work. Every tree is a school. And, since I'm in my Old Fart Lecture mode anyway, I'll throw in one more little piece of advice. You can fall a hundred trees perfectly and that 101st will absolutely humble you for days afterwards. And it should.*


 


Very true.

When I was high climbing and also taking down Doug firs in town I never broke anything or hurt anyone, but I would lay awake at night sometimes thinking about how I didn't set stuff up just right. It is easy to get pushed to meet a deadline or even just some personal goal. I had some close calls that everyone watching thought was a perfect job, but I knew better and was cursing myself inside swearing I would never do it that way again. 

Sure, there were the times when I got it perfect and I knew it, I smiled a little inside and then made an effort to do it that way again.


One I clearly remember was a Doug fir trunk I dropped alongside an apartment. It was around 40' tall and pushing 48" at the base, it had been limbed the day before and then I chunked it down that far in the morning. Boss was not happy that the tree was taking two days so he wanted it on the ground where we could put three saws on it and the skid steer could start moving it out. I put a really good face in, aimed her perfect, then started the backcut and got some wedges in. It was leaning back just a little and so I finished the backcut and started pounding wedges. It tipped over and landed perfect, right smack on the stake I was aiming for, everyone was cheering and high-fiving and telling me how good I was. I was looking at the hinge and realized that on one side it was fine for two inches, and then I had cut in too far with the tip and the hinge was about an inch thick. With the lean going towards the apartment I was just lucky it held, a full tree on top and it would not have. My next ten hinges were too thick as I over-compensated.


Anyway, enough of my rambling, wise words, just really struck me for some reason.



Mr. HE


----------



## Sport Faller

Gologit said:


> I said _two_ things, dammit.  But you're pretty close. The face was okay but it could have been a little wider. The main thing I see wrong is _not_ sawing it up a little more. And not sawing faster. It wasn't going for a saw log but that's no excuse for sloppy work.
> 
> Notice how it stalled out? Too _much_ hinge. But it was starting to go, and it was really talking,and I was thinking it might 'chair and I _still_ couldn't catch the hinge so I just bailed out. That's how you get to be 65 years old in this business.
> 
> It's very seldom that I fall a tree and think that everything went perfectly. Some times close enough is good enough but I always try to get it right. As you get more experience you'll be better able to critique your own work. Every tree is a school.
> 
> And, since I'm in my Old Fart Lecture mode anyway, I'll throw in one more little piece of advice. You can fall a hundred trees perfectly and that 101st will absolutely humble you for days afterwards. And it should.


 
Thank you sir, I'll take every bit of advice you wanna throw my way


----------



## RandyMac

Jake, are you a fiber puller?


----------



## Sport Faller

RandyMac said:


> Jake, are you a fiber puller?


 
Usually not unless it's leaning real bad, then it seems like she'll go before I'm done with the backcut


----------



## Gologit

diagram courtesy of GAS71




Jake, try this on a leaner. Either style is good. The triangle seems easier for me to match up my cuts. Practice on the smaller trees first.


----------



## paccity

View attachment 201688
well it's not a complete tree , chunked down to 35' tall . the tree monkey limbed it and chunked it down to where it's now. tomarrow i a'm going to tipp 20' of for the carver then block the remaining 6' to a 5' square so he can carve a grizzly bear out of it. no room hardly to do it ,but trying to save the 20 footer for another big carving.will take as many pic's as i can . oh yea , i think i'll break out the 890 and see how it does.


----------



## paccity

RandyMac said:


> Jake, are you a fiber puller?


 
HA! you said fiber puller.:msp_ohmy:


----------



## Gologit

*Another slopping back cut...*

Found this in the Homeowner Helper threads.



http://www.arboristsite.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=3195372


----------



## 056 kid

I wonder over there occasionally Bob. I always get that urge that I cannot fulfill with the web. so I just forget it. . Man, talk about falling though, the rain was hard at it today!


----------



## paccity

View attachment 201793
View attachment 201794
View attachment 201795
View attachment 201792
heres the rest "almost camphone died" of the pic's to day on the sequoia. had to use a conventional on it for the carver. it.s ugly but worked,where is randy when ya need him.


----------



## Sport Faller

paccity said:


> View attachment 201793
> View attachment 201794
> View attachment 201795
> View attachment 201792
> heres the rest "almost camphone died" of the pic's to day on the sequoia. had to use a conventional on it for the carver. it.s ugly but worked,where is randy when ya need him.


 
Nice, dat's a helluva pickle, I'm guessing it took some handy dremel work to get the bar on your 2100 to fit right


----------



## paccity

thanks, on the bar i new someone would notice. just a couple of 5mm thick rings and two new oil holes works great. i guess i could have painted it.


----------



## 056 kid

bigskyjake said:


> Nice, dat's a helluva pickle, I'm guessing it took some handy dremel work to get the bar on your 2100 to fit right


 
It's much faster if you do it by hand with a good file. But that is husky to stihl I am thinking of..


----------



## madhatte

What is the deal with chainsaw carvers and bears?


----------



## Metals406

madhatte said:


> What is the deal with chainsaw carvers and bears?


 
Not sure? It's how Jeff Fleming started out next door to my grandparent's place though. I used to site upstairs and watch him thru the window carve in his back yard. Now his stuff is known world wide, and the dude takes September off to bowhunt (must be nice). . . Y'all should see his hunting board -- ridiculous.

Original Bearfoots and Big Sky Bears Signed by the Artist Jeff Fleming


----------



## slowp

Here is the only tree I have used the boring/plunge/poke cut on. I didn't like the direction of my undercut, so I put a wedge in on that side. It swung the tree a bit more than planned, but the tree hit the ground in my second choice of areas, and it hit the ground. Today I only dumped four trees, and only one hung up.
I usually shout the F bomb when they hang up, but nobody heard that today. :msp_rolleyes: 










View attachment 201896
View attachment 201897

I'm wondering if I leave my hinges too thick? The trees seldom break off. When the tree starts to go, I pull out the saw and skedaddle. This is good ground for skeddaddling on.

I brought home a little load of green wood for next winter. 

The trees are about 25 years old.


----------



## lfnh

Looks like it was good weather for working.
Did the hanger come down ok?

Nice photos. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## slowp

Yes. PP logging  uses a Kubota tractor and chain. I manage to get the trees mostly down, and we hook a chain to them and the other P pulls them out. Today we whacked the trees up into firewood sizes for me. We are trying to not get the area all jackstrawed.


----------



## RandyMac

go a bit steeper and deeper with the face cut sweetp


----------



## slowp

Shall I switch back to a Humboldt? We are having to cut the stumps off anyway. I need some speed on the trees to try to get them to hit the ground.


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> Shall I switch back to a Humboldt? We are having to cut the stumps off anyway. I need some speed on the trees to try to get them to hit the ground.


 
It's hard to get any falling speed on stuff that small. Randy said it right, a little more face will help. Also, since you have plenty of room to run, saw it up a little more. On dog hair like that a thick hinge will make them fall in slow motion.


----------



## RandyMac

A tall stump will help too, but then I cut almost everything at waist height.


----------



## bitzer

*Money aint a thing when you've got chips!*

Thanks Boys! Here's some crappy cell pics from the last few weeks. Logging is hard? Who knew? Its harder trying to explain to people around here what I do. They often say, well I've got a dead tree in my yard or I need some trim work, hmmm. But if I say "lumberjack," they are all over it. The next question is "so you have to drive up north for that?" 

Bob- Its like I was told by an old farmer once, you can't count your time. Thats all it is though, trying to beat the sun. He always wins even when I get a head start as he is sleepin. Bastard. 

Randy, how many houses coulda been built outa them waist high stumps you been makin? Haha. 

Hammer- Thanks again Man!




























View attachment 201920

View attachment 201921

View attachment 201922

View attachment 201923

View attachment 201924


----------



## Jacob J.

[video=youtube_share;QGANvY5EExA]http://youtu.be/QGANvY5EExA[/video]


----------



## Samlock

In-face camera? That's certainly an angle I have never seen before.


----------



## rwoods

Jacob J, cool video, Do you always have that much fun? Ron


----------



## madhatte

Sha-zamm! That's the stuff right there!


----------



## Rounder

Bitz- if ya start counting the time you actually put into it vs. what you get paid.....you'll loose your mind. Just remeber to cut down a pumpkin every now and then without earplugs so you can really hear the ####er hit the ground. Then you'll grin and you're right back in God's fat little pocket.

All the best - Sam


----------



## Gologit

mtsamloggit said:


> Bitz- if ya start counting the time you actually put into it vs. what you get paid.....you'll loose your mind.


 
Great advice. We were running a new money management program a couple of years ago and I kept track of my hours for a solid year. I kept track of every minute, even trips to town for parts, time spent on the phone, running Cat and loader, falling, road building, walking new sales, time spent talking to agencies and 'ologists, any and every bit of time concerned with my business. I kept track of my hours as if I were working by the hour and paid myself for the hours I would have paid an employee to do the same tasks. I didn't pay myself for lunch breaks and I didn't pay myself extra for overtime.

I didn't work for anyone else that year so no outside wages were involved.

It was informative to say the least. I usually take 25% of my gross as a personal wage...that's adjustable of course depending on how the year goes. I'd never figured my by-the-hour wage before and I'm not likely to do it again.

I won't give you the actual numbers. It's too embarrassing. I made slightly more money per hour than the third assistant burger flipper at MacDonalds. But it had been a pretty good year. If it had been a _bad_ year I probably would have been below the Federal Poverty Level.

An old time timber boss years ago was asked if there was any money in logging...he replied "Hell yes, there's a _lot_ of money in the logging business. And that's where it stays, too, right there in the business...yours or one of your creditors. You just gotta try to grab a little bit out every now and then".

But...I don't know anybody who started working in the woods just for the money. Good thing, too.  We see and do things every day that other people _pay_ to see and do. Or they do it for a hobby. We get paid. A little.


----------



## Rounder

Yep, I'd probably be doing better if I was saying "Welcome to Walmart shoppers"..........but I just don't have that much common sense........and some days I just have too much fun to be doing anything else.


----------



## Sport Faller

mtsamloggit said:


> Yep, I'd probably be doing better if I was saying "Welcome to Walmart shoppers"..........but I just don't have that much common sense........and some days I just have too much fun to be doing anything else.


 
Hey Sam, you gotta head back to Bozeman or are you done out there?


----------



## Gologit

mtsamloggit said:


> Yep, I'd probably be doing better if I was saying "Welcome to Walmart shoppers"..........but I just don't have that much common sense........and some days I just have too much fun to be doing anything else.


 
LOL...I can see it now..."Just take the #######ing shopping cart lady, I don't _care_ if it has a squeaky wheel".


----------



## RandyMac

Get there early and put gum on one wheel of all the carts.


----------



## Sport Faller

RandyMac said:


> Get there early and put gum on one wheel of all the carts.


 
don't forget the Chapstick on the underside of all the handlebars


----------



## madhatte

Gologit said:


> I don't know anybody who started working in the woods just for the money. Good thing, too.  We see and do things every day that other people _pay_ to see and do. Or they do it for a hobby. We get paid. A little.



That's why I'm happy to be breaking even as a tree nerd instead working in my "other" profession (nuclear reactor operator) which pays much better. I'd rather be broke and loving my life than be rollin' in the cash and miserable. It's a choice I made long before I left The Boat, and I don't regret it one bit.


----------



## mingo

I look at it as a life style not a job. When i first started one of the Old Timers told me "if you aint running for your life it aint logging".


----------



## slowp

mingo said:


> I look at it as a life style not a job. When i first started one of the Old Timers told me "if you aint running for your life it aint logging".



I heard that too. The guy who said it was hobbling around on ankles that were broken once, and all the other injuries. He was in his 60s and didn't run so well anymore.

I prefer the term, skedaddle. Or sometimes, mosey.


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> I heard that too. The guy who said it was hobbling around on ankles that were broken once, and all the other injuries. He was in his 60s and didn't run so well anymore.
> 
> I prefer the term, skedaddle. Or sometimes, mosey.


 
Yup, but sometimes you better be able to flat out run. When we were double jacking we used to plan our escape routes so we didn't run into each other, fall down amidst a tangle of saws and tools, and then have the tree land on us. That would have been embarrassing. 

I have all the usual injuries and stuff from working in the woods but every once in awhile I have to _move_. It's amazing how fast a senior citizen can jump when the adrenaline kicks in.


----------



## Hddnis

"I'm not as young as I once was, but I'm as young once as I ever was."





Mr. HE


----------



## RandyMac

Yeah. Being able to run is good. When I lost that ability, I realized a noisy death was highly likely, even more so than before. I sauntered along for a year, then had one of those direct indicators that reduced my timber falling actives to a true hobby level. It was a tree that went into another tree, that went into another tree, all I could do is stand there and watch.
Bob is my hero.


----------



## Gologit

RandyMac said:


> Yeah. Being able to run is good. When I lost that ability, I realized a noisy death was highly likely, even more so than before. I sauntered along for a year, then had one of those direct indicators that reduced my timber falling actives to a true hobby level. It was a tree that went into another tree, that went into another tree, all I could do is stand there and watch.
> Bob is my hero.


 
LOL...nothing heroic about me...just too dumb to quit. Besides which I failed the "charming personality" part of the pre employment exam to be a greeter at WalMart.

You're right about those "direct indicators", though. A guy (or gal) had best pay attention when those little life lessons come along and adjust your game plan accordingly. I've spent enough time in plaster and stitches. I didn't like it then...no reason to believe I'd like it any better now.


----------



## Joe46

" charming personality' LOL. My guess is you still have all your teeth


----------



## 056 kid

Jacob J. said:


> [video=youtube_share;QGANvY5EExA]http://youtu.be/QGANvY5EExA[/video]


 
I want to know the story behind the wood angles in the face and that side stepping action. Looked like it was in the butt of the tree..


----------



## forestryworks

056 kid said:


> I want to know the story behind the wood angles in the face and that side stepping action. Looked like it was in the butt of the tree..


 
Cut a block out.


----------



## Metals406

056 kid said:


> I want to know the story behind the wood angles in the face and that side stepping action. Looked like it was in the butt of the tree..


 
Looks to me like he either had a really thin hinge, or the face broke it early, and the crown made it roll.

Hard to say though.


----------



## 056 kid

forestryworks said:


> Cut a block out.


 
? 



Metals406 said:


> Looks to me like he either had a really thin hinge, or the face broke it early, and *the crown made it roll*.
> 
> Hard to say though.


I had the same thought. there is some raised wood on the log that looks suspicious though. .


----------



## forestryworks

056 kid said:


> Looked like it was in the butt of the tree..


 
You quoted the video post, then you said that ^ so I assumed you were asking about how the camera got in there. Mis-read your post, my bad.


----------



## bitzer

Right now is one of those times. Waitin for the store to open at 8 to get my machine running again. Burning daylight. Its been a rough start. The actual physical labor, bruises, cuts, etc... is not the hard part. Its the stress and justifing spending my money before I make it. The, "What is going to break today" kind of thing. I've got a machine that is 20 years old and is in far better shape than a lot of them at that age, but man its just nickel and diming me! I'm turning wrenches almost daily. Its supposed to rain starting this afternoon too until Friday. I'm not trying to ##### or complain and I won't from here on out (on this site anyway). But like you guys said, it is doing something that most guys daydream about at their desks. The moments when you've cleared out a spot for a hard leaning bastard to swing into and you've got all you're cuts set up and as it starts to tip you you see the top headed for the hole just like it was meant to go there. I have a college education and I could be sitting behind a desk right now probably making $70-$80k. I did not want to be one of those guys, never knowing what its like, old and grey, regretting that I was too much of chicken #### to take the dive. Well now I'm in deep trying to figure out how to swim. I've got to figure out what kind of beer my truck driver drinks, hes got me on the backburner for guys he has worked with all his life. I guess I can't blame him though, but he better start picking my wood up on a regular basis. I NEED a check every week. He always seems to show up after the cut off for the week pushing it to the next. Well I gotta split now. Store is open in 15 minutes. I can't wait to get back in the woods! Thanks again boys!


----------



## mingo

slowp said:


> I heard that too. The guy who said it was hobbling around on ankles that were broken once, and all the other injuries. He was in his 60s and didn't run so well anymore.
> 
> I prefer the term, skedaddle. Or sometimes, mosey.


 
Your right about that the The Old Guy wasn't going to win any foot races. Well heck I'm and old guy now to and I'm not as fleet of foot as I used to be. That "Old Guy" label got here quicker than I thought it would.


----------



## Gologit

bitzer said:


> Right now is one of those times. Waitin for the store to open at 8 to get my machine running again. Burning daylight. Its been a rough start. The actual physical labor, bruises, cuts, etc... is not the hard part. Its the stress and justifing spending my money before I make it. The, "What is going to break today" kind of thing. I've got a machine that is 20 years old and is in far better shape than a lot of them at that age, but man its just nickel and diming me! I'm turning wrenches almost daily. Its supposed to rain starting this afternoon too until Friday.


 
Yup...welcome to our world. Spending money before you make it? Normal. Machinery breaking down? Normal. Doing all-night maintenance marathons to get the machinery up and running for the next day...and then running it all day and hoping nothing breaks so you can go home and actually sleep for a couple of hours that night? Normal. Catching a couple of hours sleep scrunched up on the pickup seat 'cause there wasn't time to go home and having a can of cold beans for breakfast? Normal.


After awhile you'll figure what your high wear items are and keep a few on hand. Maintenance doesn't cost near as much as downtime.

We won't even talk about taxes and depreciation schedules, and taxes, and permit fees, and taxes, and parts bills, and fuel bills, and insurance, and taxes, and trucking costs and.... 

They never showed all this stuff on AxeMen. 

LOL...maybe this ought to be moved to the Whining Thread.


----------



## mingo

Cutting a hard maple on a side hill 372 with a 24" gb bar with .050 jg chain.View attachment 202451
View attachment 202452
View attachment 202453


----------



## forestryworks

mingo said:


> Cutting a hard maple on a side hill 372 with a 24" gb bar with .050 jg chain.View attachment 202451
> View attachment 202452
> View attachment 202453


 
Looks like you got a wooden prosthesis in that first pic


----------



## mingo

forestryworks said:


> Looks like you got a wooden prosthesis in that first pic


 
Sure does felt like I had one at the end of the day going up and down that slope lol.


----------



## madhatte

Gologit said:


> They never showed all this stuff on AxeMen. .



And now, a word from Buzz Martin...


----------



## hammerlogging

Thats nice timber mingo, glad you're in it.


----------



## Hddnis

mingo said:


> Sure does felt like I had one at the end of the day going up and down that slope lol.





I really hate to seem like a slope snob, but that there ground doesn't have enough elevation change to even bother mentioning.:msp_wink:



Mr. HE


----------



## Sport Faller

Hddnis said:


> I really hate to seem like a slope snob, but that there ground doesn't have enough elevation change to even bother mentioning.:msp_wink:
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. HE



While I tend to agree with you there, I will say this, if you are used to flat ground and you get into even a lil bit of steep stuff it'll have your knees bawlin like a bastard calf


----------



## OregonSawyer

bigskyjake said:


> While I tend to agree with you there, I will say this, if you are used to flat ground and you get into even a lil bit of steep stuff it'll have your knees bawlin like a bastard calf


 
In addition, cameras can play funny tricks on ya. Sometimes they don't quite capture the severity without a point of reference.


----------



## mingo

Hddnis said:


> I really hate to seem like a slope snob, but that there ground doesn't have enough elevation change to even bother mentioning.:msp_wink:
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. HE


 Your no snob we were cutting on shelf had to try and fall the trees side hill or they run on us. It doesn't show in the picture but there is a pretty good drop off. Few more picsView attachment 202509
View attachment 202510
View attachment 202511
View attachment 202514


----------



## hammerlogging

Hddnis said:


> I really hate to seem like a slope snob, but that there ground doesn't have enough elevation change to even bother mentioning.:msp_wink:
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. HE


 
I know it doesn't look like #### to me either, but I know the Appalachians and its broken ground, so if you're averaging 40% slopes over a unit and theres a good bit of 30% and some 60% and some 100%, you love the easy but sure notice the steeps. The skidder isn't on bladed skid trails so it has a fair bit of moderate slope there,youcould run a heck of a lot faster if that skidder was ona bench instead of a sidelin. I'm cutting similar ground now and I will say this, its ####ing gravy compaired to what I cut in WV. You could easily bump that avg. slope from 40% to 60% plus, and it was less broken.

Anyhow, good pics, looks like really nice job


----------



## hammerlogging

sustained slope
View attachment 202537


View attachment 202538


wet here. blah.


----------



## Metals406

hammerlogging said:


> sustained slope
> View attachment 202537
> 
> 
> View attachment 202538
> 
> 
> wet here. blah.


 
You got snow like that already?? What's the elevation there?


----------



## hammerlogging

Metals406 said:


> You got snow like that already?? What's the elevation there?



old pictures


----------



## Metals406

hammerlogging said:


> old pictures


 
You were freaking me out! 

I thought they might be from last year. . . But ya never know. . . Global Climate Change and all. :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Samlock

forestryworks said:


> Looks like you got a wooden prosthesis in that first pic



If it doesn't stop raining ice water, I could really use a wooden prostate.


----------



## 056 kid

hammerlogging said:


> I know it doesn't look like #### to me either, but I know the Appalachians and its broken ground, so if you're averaging 40% slopes over a unit and theres a good bit of 30% and some 60% and some 100%, you love the easy but sure notice the steeps. The skidder isn't on bladed skid trails so it has a fair bit of moderate slope there,youcould run a heck of a lot faster if that skidder was ona bench instead of a sidelin. I'm cutting similar ground now and I will say this, its ####ing gravy compaired to what I cut in WV. You could easily bump that avg. slope from 40% to 60% plus, and it was less broken.
> 
> Anyhow, good pics, looks like really nice job


 
There are plenty of places where if you drop your saw, it is going for a ride. I saw some very nasty ground right in Roanoke a few miles form tanglewood mall.


----------



## slowp

More stump butchery. Today I did all Humboldts. I do not do them well. I need practice. This is the result of trying successfully to swing a tree a little bit from where it wanted to go. I left a thick hinge on the one side, then remembering to cut longer, cut the hinge off on the other side, the tree slammed down so fast I did not get my bar out, but no damage done. The tree hit right on target, much to my surprise. Most required a Kubota Assist to get them on the ground. 

Here's the horrible stump.





My Froo Froo pickup weighted down.




The patch.





View attachment 202631
View attachment 202632
View attachment 202633


----------



## Sport Faller

+26 cool points for matching cooler and foam bar cover


----------



## slowp

bigskyjake said:


> +26 cool points for matching cooler and foam bar cover



Add more points because I had a matching thermos too. Which reminds me, I think I left it in the pickup. :rolleyes2:


----------



## forestryworks

What kind of basal area and live crown ratio are we seeing in that picture, slowp?


----------



## madhatte

I'm guessing about 50 ft^2/ac BA and 20% LCR left in the residual stand -- far off?


----------



## slowp

madhatte said:


> I'm guessing about 50 ft^2/ac BA and 20% LCR left in the residual stand -- far off?



I'm just cutting the suppressed ones. We had a discussion about cutting the bigger ones. I convinced her to wait, and maybe ask a real forester who knows about growing trees, to see if maybe the bigger ones would grow more without thinning. They already have a log in them. She is planning a real harvest in the near future, just another species in another area of their place. 

I mostly know about killing trees and getting them out. Which, the getting them out takes a lot of maneuvering of the little Kubota. I have to think about this before I dump the trees. I am also the choker setter. :redface:

I do have a little teeney tiny orange wedge. I could try it...I used it to get stuck windows open in an old house.

We could use a teeny tiny skidder too, with a nice winch on it. We are also lacking a log truck driver to give us advice and "information" from the scale shack.


----------



## Gologit

*Slowp*

Want some really really small wedges? I ordered some stuff from Baileys and I must have hit the wrong button. Included in the order were three of the tiniest wedges I've ever seen. Each is so little it will fit in the palm of my hand. Looks like about 5". I don't have an idea what I'd use them for.

Trade for a huckleberry pie?


----------



## slowp

Gologit said:


> Want some really really small wedges? I ordered some stuff from Baileys and I must have hit the wrong button. Included in the order were three of the tiniest wedges I've ever seen. Each is so little it will fit in the palm of my hand. Looks like about 5". I don't have an idea what I'd use them for.
> 
> Trade for a huckleberry pie?



Will the UPS guy fling the pie against the door of your house, like he did with my package today? Which wasn't breakable. I do have two of those wedges. I've used one once, in my backyard to get a tree down.
The trees are all going the way I want them, but they still get snagged in the tops of the leave trees. I swear there is a tractor beam put out by leave trees. The cut trees get sucked right in. There are no rocks to throw at the trees, just chunks of elk poop. I haven't tried that. 

Today, I announce that the tree would go right into the blackberries. And it did, after we pulled it loose from the leave tree. 

I'll take the teeny wedge out tomorrow. But they do work great for unsticking windows. Don't tap them too hard though, the window could break.


----------



## mingo

Gologit said:


> Want some really really small wedges? I ordered some stuff from Baileys and I must have hit the wrong button. Included in the order were three of the tiniest wedges I've ever seen. Each is so little it will fit in the palm of my hand. Looks like about 5". I don't have an idea what I'd use them for.
> 
> Trade for a huckleberry pie?


 
They make good door stops


----------



## hammerlogging

Gologit said:


> Want some really really small wedges? I ordered some stuff from Baileys and I must have hit the wrong button. Included in the order were three of the tiniest wedges I've ever seen. Each is so little it will fit in the palm of my hand. Looks like about 5". I don't have an idea what I'd use them for.
> 
> Trade for a huckleberry pie?


 
I accidentally got a few of those two, so small they kind of creep me out. Laughable little things.


----------



## bitzer

Nice pics mingo! looks like fun. 

Bob, I believe I am coming around to the acceptance stage of logging, as in this is the way its going to be for a while. Its never a dull moment.

Cut for five hours in the rain this morning. It's funny how you can't tell how hard its raining when you're in it and it gradually picks up. Fueling up the last time I realized how much of a dirty dishrag I was. Decieded to call it. Here are a few from this morning. 

Yep, cookied this one. Shouldn't have made it the first stump of the day. Just outside of 4ft. The 32" bar doesn't get much play as you can see. I mostly run 25-28" as most of what I'm cutting is 20-30" dbh.





Stump number two.










This is why we look up! This branch came out of the second oak and was nearly catapulted out of the small hickory it hung in. The butt of it looked to be about 6-8" and probably 15' to 20' long. As the tree started to tip I ran about 20 steps and watched the action. As I saw the limb come out and the hickory bend away and start to come back in my direction I was at a FULL sprint out of there, yelling, "####,####,####!" That got the heart goin a little.





View attachment 202691

View attachment 202692

View attachment 202693

View attachment 202694


----------



## s219

bitzer said:


> This is why we look up! This branch came out of the second oak and was nearly catapulted out of the small hickory it hung in. The butt of it looked to be about 6-8" and probably 15' to 20' long. As the tree started to tip I ran about 20 steps and watched the action. As I saw the limb come out and the hickory bend away and start to come back in my direction I was at a FULL sprint out of there, yelling, "####,####,####!" That got the heart goin a little.


 

Great picture of a potential throwback. I think that is an often-neglected hazard. Of course, if it's a widowmaker now, that's almost just as bad...


----------



## Sport Faller

Dammit, why do I always forget to look up

[video=youtube;9dDl_FgEHlY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dDl_FgEHlY[/video]


----------



## bitzer

s219 said:


> Great picture of a potential throwback. I think that is an often-neglected hazard. Of course, if it's a widowmaker now, that's almost just as bad...


 
Oh, don't worry sparky, I'll shake it out of there. One way or another...


----------



## mdavlee

Gologit said:


> Want some really really small wedges? I ordered some stuff from Baileys and I must have hit the wrong button. Included in the order were three of the tiniest wedges I've ever seen. Each is so little it will fit in the palm of my hand. Looks like about 5". I don't have an idea what I'd use them for.
> 
> Trade for a huckleberry pie?


 
Bob clear some pm space. I'm going to be headed your way tomorrow.


----------



## s219

bitzer said:


> Oh, don't worry sparky, I'll shake it out of there. One way or another...


 
Or just remember not to get near that tree :msp_biggrin:


----------



## mingo

bigskyjake said:


> Dammit, why do I always forget to look up
> 
> [video=youtube;9dDl_FgEHlY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dDl_FgEHlY[/video]


 
Nice chaps.


----------



## lfnh

In the video, sometime around the 56 second mark looks like the wedge is moving, so the top is tipping. Least that's what it looks like. At 59 their dropping.
Maybe you can see it better on the raw video.
Thanks for sharing the video. Lee


----------



## Gologit

mdavlee said:


> Bob clear some pm space. I'm going to be headed your way tomorrow.


 
I emptied the box. Let me know when and where you're gonna be.


----------



## forestryworks

bigskyjake said:


> Dammit, why do I always forget to look up
> 
> [video=youtube;9dDl_FgEHlY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dDl_FgEHlY[/video]


 
By god if you don't start lookin' up ol' Nate is gonna hop outta his easy chair and put a popknot on yer head big enough fer a calf to suck on! :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Gologit

bigskyjake said:


> Dammit, why do I always forget to look up
> 
> [video=youtube;9dDl_FgEHlY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dDl_FgEHlY[/video]


 


That one almost ate your saw! You got away with it...this time. Next time, leave the saw. New saws are cheaper than ambulance rides. Or funerals. End of lecture.

Maybe it might have worked a little better if you'd not sawed it up quite so far and tipped it with the wedges instead. Looking up is good and you should do it often but sometimes your wedges will be the first indicator of movement.

Oh...your hat is two shades of orange lighter in color than your chaps. Slowp won't include you in her Best Dressed Logger Awards if you don't try to accessorize a little better. :msp_biggrin:


----------



## slowp

My rule: It is quite all right to yell the F Word when the tree is trying to grab your saw. Perfectly all right.
Or the excrement word will do too--when saw burps and dies. 

Ah yes. Today was going as expected. Every little tree needed a tractor assist. The 2 trees with some size slammed right down. During the apres hotdog feast tree, The Barbie Saw burped and died. She would not start. I switched to my East Coast short bar 032 saw and got that tree on the ground--no tractor assist needed. 

Here is the tree I am proud of. It went where aimed, between the some kind of a fruit tree and a leave tree. Unfortunately, it was 8 feet taller than it looked and it took out some barbwire fence. Hmmmm, Barbie kills Barb wire. There could be a song in that. And yes, I am trying to be more aggressive, and cut part of the hinge off. Bad...




The little tiny wedge is good for pounding in a tiny tree to see if it is cut off all the way so the tiny tractor can pull it over. That tree was limblocked from the get go. I am the rigging rat too. 

Back to the Barbie Saw, I called the not as famous saw shop in Chehalis, and talked to one of their mechanics. He told me what to check. Number 1 was the spark plug, and I learned that it is interchangeable with the 032. So, I pulled the plug and inserted the 032 plug.(I think I have a spare somewhere?) The Barbie saw started up and ran. Yay. I must add spark plugs to my going to town shopping list. Maybe take some cookies to the saw guys. 




View attachment 202732
View attachment 202733


----------



## RandyMac

Fences, powerlines, waterlines, fancy bushes.....the tree will sudden sprout up a few enough to hit them.


----------



## Gologit

RandyMac said:


> Fences, powerlines, waterlines, fancy bushes.....the tree will sudden sprout up a few enough to hit them.


 
:hmm3grin2orange: ....and water trucks, pickups, active haul roads, boundary lines, and (my personal favorite) Caution Timber Falling Ahead signs.


----------



## paccity

thats why i've never seen a strait watertruck.:msp_biggrin:


----------



## slowp

And, we didn't see a cow all day. Then after the fence was hit, a curious one came along, checking it out. 
He/she was wise--maybe they didn't want to go through a few blackberries? Or maybe the woofing of the two dogs scared it, but they turned around and wandered back to where they came from.


----------



## Sport Faller

forestryworks said:


> By god if you don't start lookin' up ol' Nate is gonna hop outta his easy chair and put a popknot on yer head big enough fer a calf to suck on! :hmm3grin2orange:


 
Every damn time after one hits the ground I smile for a second and then go "sonofa#####" I forgot to look up



Gologit said:


> That one almost ate your saw! You got away with it...this time. Next time, leave the saw. New saws are cheaper than ambulance rides. Or funerals. End of lecture.
> 
> Maybe it might have worked a little better if you'd not sawed it up quite so far and tipped it with the wedges instead. Looking up is good and you should do it often but sometimes your wedges will be the first indicator of movement.
> 
> Oh...your hat is two shades of orange lighter in color than your chaps. Slowp won't include you in her Best Dressed Logger Awards if you don't try to accessorize a little better. :msp_biggrin:



It went a bit sooner than I expected (which could've been solved by my dumb ass watching the top for movement) and I kindof accidently went throught hte hinge on the far side so I'm guessin that's where it grabbed me

I need to leave the chaps on the hood of the truck for about a week and then they'll be the same shade as my tin hat, also I need to be dribblin Copenhagen on them and all my shirts :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## slowp

I was having trouble with sausage grease, so I switched to a poorer hot dog brand. 

Oh, and I solved the droopy chaps problem. I drop suspenders off shoulders, put on chaps, pull up suspenders and all is fixed. No droop.


----------



## forestryworks

Speaking of hot dogs... These are really good!


----------



## slowp

Those haven't shown up here in the land of one small grocery store, or go west where there are two small stores. Maybe in Chehalis?


----------



## floyd

I hope you fixed said fence before packing it in.

Some SOB cut my fence. I hope they packed the damn deer out. Wish I had been there to...help them.

Luckily my cows did not find the hole.


----------



## slowp

floyd said:


> I hope you fixed said fence before packing it in.
> 
> Some SOB cut my fence. I hope they packed the damn deer out. Wish I had been there to...help them.
> 
> Luckily my cows did not find the hole.



I didn't but the landowner, who was right there did. I told her that the fence might get hit. No biggie, no escapees, all is cool.


----------



## Sport Faller

This is what I get for gettin too big for my britches and thinkin I could rap anything over with just a molly

[video=youtube;PT4aBmdhUKM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PT4aBmdhUKM[/video]


----------



## floyd

Good.


----------



## Rounder

bigskyjake said:


> Hey Sam, you gotta head back to Bozeman or are you done out there?


 
Just got in from the Bozone.....Cutting pard lost reverse in his pickup Wednesday morning....We got pretty creative with the parking/hiking deal.....but we finished the week.......reverse is nice.....Lucky we had some wide spots where we did.


----------



## forestryworks

bigskyjake said:


> This is what I get for gettin too big for my britches and thinkin I could rap anything over with just a molly


 
Might invest in a 5lb head on the axe.


----------



## Sport Faller

forestryworks said:


> Might invest in a 5lb head on the axe.


 
I got a 5 lb'er but I always forget the sum##### at home and it has a old timey falling-length handle that makes me kindof look like Gandolf


----------



## Sport Faller

mtsamloggit said:


> Just got in from the Bozone.....Cutting pard lost reverse in his pickup Wednesday morning....We got pretty creative with the parking/hiking deal.....but we finished the week.......reverse is nice.....Lucky we had some wide spots where we did.


 
That blows, always gotta park headin down hill huh?

you been gettin much snow out that way


----------



## forestryworks

bigskyjake said:


> I got a 5 lb'er but I always forget the sum##### at home and it has a old timey falling-length handle that makes me kindof look like Gandolf



Get you a custom handle on the 5, if'n it's too long for ya.

Got a 26" handle on my 5lb'er.

Gonna try a 3.5lb with a 20" handle in the smaller timber here.


----------



## Sport Faller

forestryworks said:


> Get you a custom handle on the 5, if'n it's too long for ya.
> 
> Got a 26" handle on my 5lb'er.
> 
> Gonna try a 3.5lb with a 20" handle in the smaller timber here.


 
I might have to go score a shorter one, this one is also that nice half rotted gray color with weather checks all over it so it's definately gonna fail if I fetch it a couple good whacks


----------



## Joe46

5lb Collins rafting axe. 26"straight handle so you can also use it as a plumb.


----------



## Sport Faller

Joe46 said:


> 5lb Collins rafting axe. 26"straight handle so you can also use it as a plumb.


 
I might shoulda used a plumb on the "larch 3" vid tree :jester:

I walked around it about 5 times like an English Setter looking for a place to take a dump and still had it pointed the wrong way


----------



## Rounder

bigskyjake said:


> That blows, always gotta park headin down hill huh?
> 
> you been gettin much snow out that way


 
Yeah, it's snowing at 7,000. Drank coffee in the truck for about 45 minutes waiting for light watching it snow in the head lights.....yeehaw. Finally got a good Friday strip though. Wind didn't even blow, which was kind of odd.

Hope you all had a good, safe week- enjoy the weekend - Sam


----------



## Rounder

bigskyjake said:


> That blows, always gotta park headin down hill huh?
> 
> you been gettin much snow out that way


 
Good rule of the woods Jake, *always* park headed towords town.......reverse or not..... One less thing to #### with if someone needs to get to help. Don't care how far I have to back up in the dark, it's just a good rule to live by. - Sam


----------



## Metals406

bigskyjake said:


> This is what I get for gettin too big for my britches and thinkin I could rap anything over with just a molly
> 
> [video=youtube;PT4aBmdhUKM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PT4aBmdhUKM[/video]


 
I thought for sure that back-lean was gonna bite ya in the butt.

Saw sounds good! Fat enough for limbing, but cleans up for the real work.


----------



## Hddnis

Looked like a lot of lean, then I realized all the trees were leaning just about the same amount. Hinge was a little thin?



Mr. HE


----------



## Sport Faller

Metals406 said:


> I thought for sure that back-lean was gonna bite ya in the butt.
> 
> Saw sounds good! Fat enough for limbing, but cleans up for the real work.


 
For some reason (my chunk of bark tilting the camera up may have failed me) it looks way lean-ier on the vid than it was


----------



## Sport Faller

Hddnis said:


> Looked like a lot of lean, then I realized all the trees were leaning just about the same amount. Hinge was a little thin?
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. HE


 
yeah I shoulda had more hinge there, with that thick damn bark on a larch it's kinda hard to tell just how much you have sometimes


----------



## Gologit

bigskyjake said:


> yeah I shoulda had more hinge there, with that thick damn bark on a larch it's kinda hard to tell just how much you have sometimes


 
Try scalping the bark on each side where your hinge should be. Might give you a better look.


----------



## Metals406

bigskyjake said:


> yeah I shoulda had more hinge there, with that thick damn bark on a larch it's kinda hard to tell just how much you have sometimes


 
DF is worse. . . Them biguns have 4" thick cork for skin, same with Pondy. I'll whack it off with an ax or saw where I'm driving wedges.


----------



## Sport Faller

Metals406 said:


> DF is worse. . . Them biguns have 4" thick cork for skin, same with Pondy. I'll whack it off with an ax or saw where I'm driving wedges.


 
(beavis and butthead laugh) uhhhh huh huh, uhhh huh, you said whack it off

oh hey, I forgot to say, thanks for the ATF/bar oil tip, it's like night and day before i used it I had to soak my damn chain off the 038 overnight in degreaser and then use a toothpick to clean out the oil-o-matic driver holes


----------



## Metals406

bigskyjake said:


> (beavis and butthead laugh) uhhhh huh huh, uhhh huh, you said whack it off
> 
> oh hey, I forgot to say, thanks for the ATF/bar oil tip, it's like night and day before i used it I had to soak my damn chain off the 038 overnight in degreaser and then use a toothpick to clean out the oil-o-matic driver holes


 
I didn't invent doing it. . . But I did steal the idea fair and square. 

Glad it's working for ya!


----------



## Sport Faller

Gologit said:


> Try scalping the bark on each side where your hinge should be. Might give you a better look.


 
There's too damn much stuff to remember :jester:

the next video might have me with a 3 ring binder checklist and pocket protector filled with ballpoint pens LOL


----------



## RandyMac

Jake needs to be a second saw for someone.


----------



## Sport Faller

RandyMac said:


> Jake needs to be a second saw for someone.


 
Oh hell yeah, I aint skeered of being a pack horse for a while to gain some know how and maybe a foot in the door


----------



## RandyMac

It was the best $50 a day jobs I ever had.


----------



## Sport Faller

RandyMac said:


> It was the best $50 a day jobs I ever had.


 
I'd settle for 50 (not forever but a while would be feasable) a day as long as they didn't yell _too_ loud and maybe let me sit in the skidder seat every once in a while and make diesel engine noises while slamming the controls around


----------



## RandyMac

The old guy I worked for didn't yell, that look was plenty enough, he did throw rocks at me from time to time. After awhile, I got 10% of the scale.


----------



## Metals406

bigskyjake said:


> I'd settle for 50 (not forever but a while would be feasable) a day as long as they didn't yell _too_ loud and maybe let me sit in the skidder seat every once in a while and make diesel engine noises while slamming the controls around


 
:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## floyd

!0% Plus an education.


My mother drove with no reverse in town.


Look at the frame not the tree, everything in the frame is tilted.


----------



## RandyMac

did you put me on ignore Floyd?


----------



## floyd

Nope, the 10% +education was directed to you


----------



## slowp

I shall be smashing fence today. Or I should say, gently pushing it. The trees are not that big that need to come down.


----------



## floyd

You just had to share that with me.


----------



## mingo

Some more pics of the not so side side hill.View attachment 202987
View attachment 202988
View attachment 202989
View attachment 202990
View attachment 202991


----------



## Metals406

Cody working up a heating stick. I like how he checks his pressures after he's loaded the jack, and is always mindful of them throughout. You can tell he's an old hand by his movements, and his fluidity. I love watching him work!

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/6t4srVI9PLY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


----------



## slowp

Please send a mini tree jack. I had one set back today. I pondered it prior to cutting and was amazed when it did go back. I believe it is proof that fences are magnetic, as that is where I had to send it after it sat back and leaned....making my heart rate go up. I put in another cut and then skedaddled, and it worked out.
I brought the tree home in the back of my pickup, and it is now in the pile. 
Here's the butchered stump.





The fence barely shows up, but it got hit dead on. Not to worry, Floyd, this is a section that serves no purpose. No cows could escape.





The tiny wedge was killed today. 

On a happier note, today went well, except for that *&% tree. Most of them hit the ground on their own. I have more openings in which to send them. 

View attachment 203013

View attachment 203014


----------



## forestryworks

Metals406 said:


> Cody working up a heating stick. I like how he checks his pressures after he's loaded the jack, and is always mindful of them throughout. You can tell he's an old hand by his movements, and his fluidity. I love watching him work!
> 
> <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/6t4srVI9PLY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


 
I guess the Energizer Bunny wandered off for carrots before that tree headed for the lay


----------



## Sport Faller

forestryworks said:


> I guess the Energizer Bunny wandered off for carrots before that tree headed for the lay


 
I was thinkin the same thing, what the hell is with this teaser video, do we have to put more Quarters in to make the screen go back up :msp_biggrin:


----------



## Greystoke

Sorry, I was tryin to get a little better quality vid than with my phone, and did not check to make sure that I had enough space on my dvd. It only took about another 30 seconds til it fell! I was pissed! Oh well.

[video=youtube;sR5UjjphAlk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR5UjjphAlk[/video]


----------



## Metals406

tarzanstree said:


> Sorry, I was tryin to get a little better quality vid than with my phone, and did not check to make sure that I had enough space on my dvd. It only took about another 30 seconds til it fell! I was pissed! Oh well.
> 
> [video=youtube;sR5UjjphAlk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sR5UjjphAlk[/video]


 
We'll let ya go this time. . . But next time ya get the Chinese Can-O-Whoop-Ass by God! 

You'll have to settle for the Chinese can. . . I can't afford the Made in USA stuff.


----------



## Sport Faller

Metals406 said:


> We'll let ya go this time. . . But next time ya get the Chinese Can-O-Whoop-Ass by God!
> 
> You'll have to settle for the Chinese can. . . I can't afford the Made in USA stuff.


 
Careful, the Chinese can has lead in it


----------



## Metals406

bigskyjake said:


> Careful, the Chinese can has lead in it


 
Mmmmmm. . . Lead. :drool:


----------



## Metals406

slowp said:


> Please send a mini tree jack. I had one set back today. I pondered it prior to cutting and was amazed when it did go back. I believe it is proof that fences are magnetic, as that is where I had to send it after it sat back and leaned....making my heart rate go up. I put in another cut and then skedaddled, and it worked out.
> I brought the tree home in the back of my pickup, and it is now in the pile.
> Here's the butchered stump.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The fence barely shows up, but it got hit dead on. Not to worry, Floyd, this is a section that serves no purpose. No cows could escape.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The tiny wedge was killed today.
> 
> On a happier note, today went well, except for that *&% tree. Most of them hit the ground on their own. I have more openings in which to send them.
> 
> View attachment 203013
> 
> View attachment 203014


 
Found ya that jack ya need!


----------



## madhatte

Metals406 said:


> Mmmmmm. . . Lead. :drool:



Paint chips: wall candy

Y I no smrt?


----------



## Gologit

madhatte said:


> Paint chips: wall candy
> 
> Y I no smrt?


 
Paint chips, library paste, and pencil erasers...three of the basic food groups for elementary school kids in my home town. It was either that or the turkey al'a king that they served in the cafeteria. Low test scores....really really low.


----------



## Hddnis

Metals406 said:


> Found ya that jack ya need!






A guy (or gal) could put a plate on top of that, weld a few rings on the base, connect some springs to the base and top plate, and have themselves a right handy little jack for blocking down trees. 



Mr. HE


----------



## RandyMac

Gologit said:


> Paint chips, library paste, and pencil erasers...three of the basic food groups for elementary school kids in my home town. It was either that or the turkey al'a king that they served in the cafeteria. Low test scores....really really low.


 
Rio Dell low?


----------



## Samlock

Gologit said:


> Paint chips, library paste, and pencil erasers...three of the basic food groups for elementary school kids in my home town. It was either that or the turkey al'a king that they served in the cafeteria. Low test scores....really really low.



It's said that the lead poisoning corrupted the Roman aristocracy and ultimately collapsed the whole empire. It's also said that the USA is a New Roma. That makes sense. But, logically, what's the point of poisoning the riff raff (which can not afford anything but things made in China)? Well, maybe the Chinese have calculated that since the trash has the numbers, they'll make bad decisions in the elections...

Is this politics? No, it's logging.






I see some orange chips there, ma'am. Coastalfaller (if I recall it right) came out with a good idea. Do the back cut first, insert the wedge, then cut the notch. I tried that out the other day. It worked really well. Actually I like it better than the quarter cut, which I've done this far.


----------



## mdavlee

Here's a picture from yesterday. Got a lot more when I get time.


----------



## RandyMac

mdavlee said:


> Here's a picture from yesterday. Got a lot more when I get time.


 
Picture it sliced off at belt height.


----------



## mdavlee

I got a picture of one with springboard notches in it about 6' up.


----------



## RandyMac

If you wander deep enough in some of those old groves, you will find where a tree has been felled, the old way with axes. The strange thing is there is no trace of the tree, just a big ass stump. Most are fairly remote, hard to say what went on, maybe lightning struck and salvaged.


----------



## Greystoke

RandyMac said:


> Picture it sliced off at belt height.


 
And the scale written on my hat! Probably 45 bushel.


----------



## RandyMac

That one and two more like it, would be a full day's work for two men I'd bet a case of cold beer that tree is 325' or better.


----------



## Sport Faller

tarzanstree said:


> And the scale written on my hat! Probably 45 bushel.


 
Yo Cody, what buzactly is a bushel, from what I've read and whatnot it's a certain amount of board feet right?


----------



## forestryworks

bigskyjake said:


> Yo Cody, what buzactly is a bushel, from what I've read and whatnot it's a certain amount of board feet right?


 
One bushel = 1,000bf


----------



## Sport Faller

forestryworks said:


> One bushel = 1,000bf


 
Thankee Jameson, I kinda wanna learn how to scale a tree too, if I remember right there was a pretty good thread by Nate on it a while back here


----------



## forestryworks

bigskyjake said:


> Thankee Jameson, I kinda wanna learn how to scale a tree too, if I remember right there was a pretty good thread by Nate on it a while back here


 
The main thing, is scale from the small end, inside the bark, and length is to the nearest foot (or was it nearest even foot?) I've forgotten temporarily.

Maybe a faller will get on here and say how they do it.


----------



## Sport Faller

forestryworks said:


> The main thing, is scale from the small end, inside the bark, and length is to the nearest foot (or was it nearest even foot?) I've forgotten temporarily.
> 
> Maybe a faller will get on here and say how they do it.


 
Say a cat was scaling a long log, would it be fairly accurate to buck it and then get an average dia. and go from there?

I have no idea what the standard lengths to buck a tree are but say you bucked one at 32' that was 40" on the stump and 20" up top
and you used 30" to get your Doyle scale of 1352 bf


----------



## forestryworks

bigskyjake said:


> Say a cat was scaling a long log, would it be fairly accurate to buck it and then get an average dia. and go from there?
> 
> I have no idea what the standard lengths to buck a tree are but say you bucked one at 32' that was 40" on the stump and 20" up top
> and you used 30" to get your Doyle scale of 1352 bf


 
Find a volume table and print one out (google search one). Take it with you to the woods next time. Fall you a tree, buck your lengths up (use 16', or whatever length is on your volume table) and then, starting at the smallest log and at the small end of every log, work your way back to the first log, recording diameter and length of each log and then cross reference in the volume table.

Then tally up all your volumes for each log.

Now, with that said, I will go set up my super secret woods camera to capture a man mumbling at a volume table and scratching on a scale sheet opcorn:


----------



## Metals406

bigskyjake said:


> Say a cat was scaling a long log, would it be fairly accurate to buck it and then get an average dia. and go from there?
> 
> I have no idea what the standard lengths to buck a tree are but say you bucked one at 32' that was 40" on the stump and 20" up top
> and you used 30" to get your Doyle scale of 1352 bf


 
Them timberbeasts' like Cody, Pat, Bob, Jasha, Randy, Jason, etc. . . Just get good at eyeballing trees for scale. It's a time under your belt deal.

Board feet is also written 1Mbf = 1,000 board feet, so 45 Bushel would be 45Mbf.

Unless a guy is "Bushel'n" (cutting for a company paying you by what you cut), you really don't need to scale. Most shows these days are "Day-Wage" or hourly anyway.

Scaling is something that a person has to learn (Jameson and Nathan have to learn all about it for Forestry) if it's part of your job. Most mills have their own Foresters that "cruise for scale", and the mills themselves have a "scale shack" where guys/gals are paid to scale.

Peelers and sawlogs are different as well, at least in how they're processed. A sawlog is only as good as it's small end at the mill. The rest will be "waste" or "slabs" and sent down a conveyor and chipped.

In the below video, you can see what's called a "head saw" or "head rig". Notice the initial cuts are working the log down to the small end. Lots of slabs come off to get to the good stuff. Back in the day, when timber was huge and juicy, some slabs could have lots of wood in them. The mills would give them away, and guys could "resaw" them to make boards. My Great-Great-Grandfather & Great-Grandfather remodeled a place in town back in the 1920's using only lumber they resawed from free slabs from the mill. My Mom has the picture of them hand resawing slabs with a homemade circular mill powered by a Model-T (imagine a huge table saw). It was that same saw that my Great-Grandfather lost his middle finger on his hand, at the first knuckle.

Mills don't want to pay for slabs, so scaling is skewed to reflect usable wood.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/edEW0cRVBnI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


----------



## Greystoke

Just got back from a tree job. Little blue spruce had about 250 bd ft. in it. That video of mine jacking the firewood fir...that tree was over 2 bushel. last one I cut, I decided to measure length and scale. It was 32" inside bark dbh, 125' tall and just over 2 bushel. How many cords are in a bushel? Did some research on it and came up with different results. As far as scaling a log or tree...most of my career we used west side scale since I was on the coast. East of the cascades, or any other coastal range we used east side scale. Only used doyle scale when I fell timber in the swamps of Florida. What I remember most about the difference between west and east side scale was that we did not seem to get as many bd. ft. with west side. Think it has something to do with short vs. long logs. Now, when we fell a bigger tree we had to scale the but logs on site to make sure that the helicopter could fly them before we bucked them. For this we always carried a scale tape on our spenders. Say you have a 32' log (minus 10,11, or 12" trim depending on mill) that is 28" diameter. Your scale tape has 12, 14, 16, and 18' logs on one side and ahh hell, I'm gonna make a video. One other thing...the scale that we got paid for we used scale tables at home at night when we recorded our scale off our hats...the only reason for having the scale tape on our spenders was so that we could make sure we did not buck logs too heavy to fly...good way to piss off bullbucks, hookers, pilots and pms!

[video=youtube;9iUj3mHKIWI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iUj3mHKIWI[/video]


----------



## Metals406

tarzanstree said:


> Just got back from a tree job. Little blue spruce had about 250 bd ft. in it. That video of mine jacking the firewood fir...that tree was over 2 bushel. last one I cut, I decided to measure length and scale. It was 32" inside bark dbh, 125' tall and just over 2 bushel. How many cords are in a bushel? Did some research on it and came up with different results. As far as scaling a log or tree...most of my career we used west side scale since I was on the coast. East of the cascades, or any other coastal range we used east side scale. Only used doyle scale when I fell timber in the swamps of Florida. What I remember most about the difference between west and east side scale was that we did not seem to get as many bd. ft. with west side. Think it has something to do with short vs. long logs. Now, when we fell a bigger tree we had to scale the but logs on site to make sure that the helicopter could fly them before we bucked them. For this we always carried a scale tape on our spenders. Say you have a 32' log (minus 10,11, or 12" trim depending on mill) that is 28" diameter. Your scale tape has 12, 14, 16, and 18' logs on one side and ahh hell, I'm gonna make a video. One other thing...the scale that we got paid for we used scale tables at home at night when we recorded our scale off our hats...the only reason for having the scale tape on our spenders was so that we could make sure we did not buck logs too heavy to fly...good way to piss off bullbucks, hookers, pilots and pms!
> 
> [video=youtube;9iUj3mHKIWI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iUj3mHKIWI[/video]


 


Awesome info Cody!

On the "Cord" thing, there is always 128 cu. ft. in one cord. A scale tape would let you get Mbf, then a guy could convert to cu. ft.

*[NERD]*Let's say your tree was 2,000 board feet, and one board foot is 0.08333 cu. ft. -- you would multiply board feet by 0.08333, and have 166.66 cu. ft. -- or 1.3 cord. True cord, not no dang air gaps. Even firewood permits reflect the fact that a true cord is a cu. ft. measurement of wood (not air), but can also be expressed in a pile w/ air gaps.*[/NERD]*

You can also use the Frustrum of a Cone formula, but a scale tape/stick is quicker.


----------



## forestryworks

Metals406 said:


> Awesome info Cody!
> 
> On the "Cord" thing, there is always 128 cu. ft. in one cord. A scale tape would let you get Mbf, then a guy could convert to cu. ft.
> 
> *[NERD]*Let's say your tree was 2,000 board feet, and one board foot is 0.08333 cu. ft. -- you would multiply board feet by 0.08333, and have 166.66 cu. ft. -- or 1.3 cord. True cord, not no dang air gaps. Even firewood permits reflect the fact that a true cord is a cu. ft. measurement of wood (not air), but can also be expressed in a pile w/ air gaps.*[/NERD]*
> 
> You can also use the Frustrum of a Cone formula, but a scale tape/stick is quicker.


 
But doesn't an actual cord contain between 80-90 cu. ft. of solid wood? I forget where I've read that, but it had a +/- 10-12 cu. ft. depending on species.

The 128cu. ft. is how much space a 4'x4'x8' stacked cord occupies, which includes air space, bark space, and fart space.


----------



## RandyMac

Metals406 said:


> Awesome info Cody!
> 
> On the "Cord" thing, there is always 128 cu. ft. in one cord. A scale tape would let you get Mbf, then a guy could convert to cu. ft.
> 
> *[NERD]*Let's say your tree was 2,000 board feet, and one board foot is 0.08333 cu. ft. -- you would multiply board feet by 0.08333, and have 166.66 cu. ft. -- or 1.3 cord. True cord, not no dang air gaps. Even firewood permits reflect the fact that a true cord is a cu. ft. measurement of wood (not air), but can also be expressed in a pile w/ air gaps.*[/NERD]*
> 
> You can also use the Frustrum of a Cone formula, but a scale tape/stick is quicker.


 

ohferchristsakes

variables
in heavily tapered timber, buck shorter logs.
kick off a batear? dab mud in the hole
coat ends of a big Chinkapin log with mud and watch 966 do handstands


----------



## Greystoke

Metals406 said:


> Awesome info Cody!
> 
> On the "Cord" thing, there is always 128 cu. ft. in one cord. A scale tape would let you get Mbf, then a guy could convert to cu. ft.
> 
> *[NERD]*Let's say your tree was 2,000 board feet, and one board foot is 0.08333 cu. ft. -- you would multiply board feet by 0.08333, and have 166.66 cu. ft. -- or 1.3 cord. True cord, not no dang air gaps. Even firewood permits reflect the fact that a true cord is a cu. ft. measurement of wood (not air), but can also be expressed in a pile w/ air gaps.*[/NERD]*
> 
> You can also use the Frustrum of a Cone formula, but a scale tape/stick is quicker.



Well by god Ima sayin that a two bushel tree is over 3 cord and ifn anybody says any differnt Ima gonna be on them like a pissant on a popsicle stick!


----------



## Greystoke

Just hackin Nate...thanks for the info:smile2: That was a big ass 1.3 cord load! I know when we talk about scale, we are talking about the scaling cylinder which is an equal square drawn on the small end of the log, so maybe not accounting for all the rest which, supposedly gets slabbed off at the mill...I know I never got paid for it, but I am sure somebody did!


----------



## RandyMac

tarzanstree said:


> Just hackin Nate...thanks for the info:smile2: That was a big ass 1.3 cord load! I know when we talk about scale, we are talking about the scaling cylinder which is an equal square drawn on the small end of the log, so maybe not accounting for all the rest which, supposedly gets slabbed off at the mill...I know I never got paid for it, but I am sure somebody did!


 
The guy with the canthook at the headrig gets paid for the slabwood.


----------



## mdavlee

Here's a couple more. I put some more up in off topic. I'll try to get a few more up later this evening.


----------



## slowp

Yah, iffen youse got paid scale on dur Vestside, youse got less in da old growth. 

Back in dem days, da mill wanted the butt logs to go out in 40 foot lengths. 40 feet was the maximum allowable in da USFS contract. Plus trim, of course. The butt would go on the truck with two small bunk logs and that was a load. Now, something for Jake to think about. The scaling cylinder as it is called, is the inside bark diameter of the log at the small end. So, the mill paid for a smaller bit of wood than they actually got out of those big 40 footers. Had they cut it into two 20 footers, they would have had to pay for more, because the small end of the butt log at 20 feet would be larger than the one at 40 feet. Eastside scale, I'm trying to remember way back so not certain, was 16 foot logs?? At least it was for cruising.

Don't mix up scaling and cruising. They are two seperate beasts. 

Since then, the Forest Service has gone to cubic feet. I was taught Scribner Board feet so only know that roughly there are 9.7 ccf on a log truck. There is close to 5mbf on a normal log truck, and 10 cords on a log truck, and around 28 tons. All this varies with time of year, area it comes from, defect, legal or not, etc. 

Is your head hurting yet? 

A good book to get, if you are interested in scaling, is (and I think they started printing it again mine is old)
_*A Manual of Instruction for Log Scaling and the Measurement of Timber Products*._
It was put out by the *Idaho State Board for Vocational Education*. Mine is the 1974 version. There are nice color pictures in it of defect, and all sorts of diagrams of scaling situations.

I last used a scaling stick to open and close the vents in the office. We went to weight scale.


----------



## forestryworks

Some more scaling resources - Idaho Board of Scaling Practices Website


----------



## madhatte

Gotta have this one too


----------



## 056 kid

####, ####, god damnit, sonova #####, I wanna fall some ####### timber!! All this mbf talk, ####! I spent all day feeding a chipper


----------



## Sport Faller

Thanks all for the ####load of info, Cody that was a pretty cool vid, I might have to snag up a tape like that just cause. I wanna go dump some trees now soooooo bad, but tomorrow I actually get to do a bit of acting, America's Most Wanted is doing a Documentary on David Burgert and they're using my Mom's property and asked me if I wanted a part as one of Burgert's mob, so ya'll can just call me Hollywood now :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Sport Faller

forestryworks said:


> But doesn't an actual cord contain between 80-90 cu. ft. of solid wood? I forget where I've read that, but it had a +/- 10-12 cu. ft. depending on species.
> 
> The 128cu. ft. is how much space a 4'x4'x8' stacked cord occupies, which includes air space, bark space, and fart space.


 
From all of the whatnot I've heard they say that 500 bf is a pretty good guesstamate for a cord (that number gives allowance for airspace)


----------



## Metals406

forestryworks said:


> But doesn't an actual cord contain between 80-90 cu. ft. of solid wood? I forget where I've read that, but it had a +/- 10-12 cu. ft. depending on species.
> 
> The 128cu. ft. is how much space a 4'x4'x8' stacked cord occupies, which includes air space, bark space, and fart space.


 
Well, by God! Last years permit says "A cord is a stack of wood 4' X 4' X 8' *or* 128 cu.ft. of wood." I'm just going off of their wording, in Engrish. 

This years permit don't have nuthin' on it that defines a cord. The point I was making, is if'n a guy actually figured what ya got by footage, you walk out'a the woods with more wood, instead of wood and air. They must'a removed the definition cause it caused a stink eh?? :msp_mad:

It's an age old argument about what a "cord" is.

All I know is. . . I can't burn air.


----------



## Metals406

Hey Paw-Paw!! Tell'em I'll play Burgert! All I gotta do is walk into the woods and disappear right? 

And tell'em I'm bringing a cotton pick'n cord of wood with me too! 128 cubic by God feet! :biggrin:


----------



## Sport Faller

Metals406 said:


> Hey Paw-Paw!! Tell'em I'll play Burgert! All I gotta do is walk into the woods and disappear right?
> 
> And tell'em I'm bringing a cotton pick'n cord of wood with me too! 128 cubic by God feet! :biggrin:


 
LOL, if your gonna play Burgert you'd better look like that supersized pic of you on Facebook. The funny thing is I actually own a bunch of the FAL magazines that were confiscated from Burgert's compound. The sherrifs office brought them to my favorite gunstore to put em on consignment


----------



## forestryworks

Metals406 said:


> All I know is. . . I can't burn air.


 
Why, sure you can! Watch "Dumb and Dumber" :biggrinbounce2:


----------



## RandyMac

Originally Posted by Metals406 
All I know is. . . I can't burn air. 

tell that to Bessemer.


----------



## Metals406

We need some chainsawing, timberfalling, bucking, videos/pics.

Jake, Cody, Randy, you're up!

Only pictures I can provide right now, involves me performing an exorcism on my refrigerator.


----------



## Sport Faller

Metals406 said:


> We need some chainsawing, timberfalling, bucking, videos/pics.
> 
> Jake, Cody, Randy, your up!
> 
> Only pictures I can provide right now, involves me performing an exorcism on my refrigerator.


 
I got 1 more squirreled away from the other day (the same day as the U.S.S. Unwedgable), I'll slap that sum##### on youtube and post up the link shortly


----------



## Sport Faller

[video=youtube;ArmGecCO2cI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArmGecCO2cI[/video]


----------



## Metals406

bigskyjake said:


> [video=youtube;ArmGecCO2cI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArmGecCO2cI[/video]


 


Get some Paw-Paw!

Gettin' better with every tree.


----------



## Gologit

Metals406 said:


> Get some Paw-Paw!
> 
> Gettin' better with every tree.


 
Yup. A little more face might have helped it go over easier but other than than it looked fine.

HEY JAKE...you already know what you're doing right. We'll just keep nagging at you until you're better than we are. :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Sport Faller

Metals406 said:


> Get some Paw-Paw!
> 
> Gettin' better with every tree.


 


Gologit said:


> Yup. A little more face might have helped it go over easier but other than than it looked fine.
> 
> HEY JAKE...you already know what you're doing right. We'll just keep nagging at you until you're better than we are. :hmm3grin2orange:


 
Hey thanks guys, if I get done with that other stuff early enough today I might have to hunt me up sumpin to cut down


----------



## RandyMac

Looks like you are getting that chase the hinge thing.

Yup, go steeper and deeper some.


----------



## Sport Faller

RandyMac said:


> Looks like you are getting that chase the hinge thing.
> 
> Yup, go steeper and deeper some.


Thanks Randy!

that's whats called bein between a rock and a hard place

also, I've been wondering for a while, what's the block face like that used specifically for?


----------



## RandyMac

If done right, you have control of the tree and can direct what it does, all the way to the ground. With that Sugar Pine, I needed it to fall in such a way, that it went away from the chimney and didn't move when it hit. In many cases, it is done on large diameter trunks when bar length is less them optimal, like using a 60" on a 12 foot tree. The block cut is most often seen in Redwoods where placement and *how* the tree falls is critical.


----------



## s219

I believe the technical aspect of the block cut is that it spreads the stress of the hinge and face cut over a larger area (think about the wood flexing around a wide block cutout rather than concentrated at the point of a wedge cutout). This holds the butt on the stump longer, and gives more control as Randy noted. So the tree comes down more gradually and evenly top to bottom. I recall hearing an old timer say he used this cut to gently land trees in poor terrain, since it lessened chances of busting up the tree.


----------



## dave k

Nice explanation Randy and s219, I had a good look at the face cut and see what you mean about the non shearing event that a "block cut" will allow. I've tended to use a winch either hand or tractor mounted when I wanted an absoloute slow fall when I could but will give that a go but not up against a house for the first couple !!


----------



## Gologit

s219 said:


> I believe the technical aspect of the block cut is that it spreads the stress of the hinge and face cut over a larger area (think about the wood flexing around a wide block cutout rather than concentrated at the point of a wedge cutout). This holds the butt on the stump longer, and gives more control as Randy noted. So the tree comes down more gradually and evenly top to bottom. I recall hearing an old timer say he used this cut to gently land trees in poor terrain, since it lessened chances of busting up the tree.


 
Exactly right. The block face was also a lot easier to cut than a Humboldt if were running a heavy saw with a long bar. A lot of guys like to snipe the lower edge of the bottom cut. Those big redwoods were valuable and if you blew one up it was a major waste of money and time. We still use the block cut on big pine and fir. I like it on big cedar but I've found a larger snipe is necessary to offset their tendency to shatter.


----------



## Gologit

dave k said:


> Nice explanation Randy and s219, I had a good look at the face cut and see what you mean about the non shearing event that a "block cut" will allow. I've tended to use a winch either hand or tractor mounted when I wanted an absoloute slow fall when I could but will give that a go but not up against a house for the first couple !!


 
When you get a chance, try using it on smaller trees, 24 to 36 inchers...just for practice. It seems to work better with heavier trees. Also, you can off-set the snipe a bit to help pull the tree a little if you're not gunned up exactly right.


----------



## Hddnis

A block cut with a thick hinge, often jacking the tree to get it started, can reduce how hard it hits by maybe as much as half. We used it a few times when dropping a large trunk alongside a building so we didn't break the windows. A block face, thick hinge and a few of the soft branch ends made for a real soft landing with good control of the energy in the falling tree.



Mr. HE


----------



## Sport Faller

Thanks all for the block cut info, the next video might have to have a block cut, some buckin, and some scalin


----------



## slowp

When you scale it, be sure and wear an orange vest. Carry a little computer too. Clipboards and paper are out of style.


----------



## 056 kid

Hddnis said:


> A block cut with a thick hinge, often jacking the tree to get it started, can reduce how hard it hits by maybe as much as half. We used it a few times when dropping a large trunk alongside a building so we didn't break the windows. A block face, thick hinge and a few of the soft branch ends made for a real soft landing with good control of the energy in the falling tree.
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. HE


 
Half?!

I was BSing with an old boy today that spent time in OG. . . LOTS of cool cool stuff to hear about.


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> When you scale it, be sure and wear an orange vest. Carry a little computer too. Clipboards and paper are out of style.


 
And don't smile, scalers never smile. That's 'cause they think everybody hates them. They might be right.


----------



## Gologit

056 kid said:


> Half?!


 
Yup. Done right, with a good gentle lay for the tree, you can save one out where otherwise you'd have to send it to Diamond Match.


----------



## slowp

Gologit said:


> And don't smile, scalers never smile. That's 'cause they think everybody hates them. They might be right.



I think they are cheerier than the lowboy drivers. The scale ramps are where the rumors and information start. They take in various parts of information from the experts--the truck drivers, analyze it, and send the truckers back to the woods with the newest and revised information. Just don't step on those teeter totter ladders, if they have them elsewhere. The ladders are not walkways!


----------



## Sport Faller

slowp said:


> When you scale it, be sure and wear an orange vest. Carry a little computer too. Clipboards and paper are out of style.


 


Gologit said:


> And don't smile, scalers never smile. That's 'cause they think everybody hates them. They might be right.


 


slowp said:


> I think they are cheerier than the lowboy drivers. The scale ramps are where the rumors and information start. They take in various parts of information from the experts--the truck drivers, analyze it, and send the truckers back to the woods with the newest and revised information. Just don't step on those teeter totter ladders, if they have them elsewhere. The ladders are not walkways!


 
I was kindof thinking more of the Pat style, hat cocked off to one side hands on hips, one foot propped on the log and (after I had measured it off camera and done computing on the cell phone) "Yup that's about a 2 bushel stick right there"


----------



## 056 kid

Gologit said:


> Yup. Done right, with a good gentle lay for the tree, you can save one out where otherwise you'd have to send it to Diamond Match.


 
I heard a story about how a couple of redwood fallers in their late 70s sent a big one to the tooth pick factory. They went back for a punkin they left, got the lay all pretty, let it drift a little and BOOM. Sounds like an epic embarrassment haha. oh well, they where decades past paying their dues I'm sure. .


----------



## Hddnis

Gologit said:


> Yup. Done right, with a good gentle lay for the tree, you can save one out where otherwise you'd have to send it to Diamond Match.







Shhhhh! We give him too many pointers and the price of matches will start going up.




Mr. HE


----------



## 056 kid

I keep my logs whole:greenchainsaw:


----------



## slowp

:mad2: Here's my tale of woe. Today I returned to "the gym" and started on a 6" Doug. All the trees are dougs. Well, it looked like it was favoring going one way, not by much, and there was no way it would hit the ground going that way. So, I tried the back cut, place wedge in, then notch method. Mistake. I used an orange wedge and my little axe. My blows were right on, and the wedge went in, and in, and in, the tree stayed. I sawed a little more on the hinge without cutting it off. No go. I added a pink wedge. The two colors were incompatible and the orange one popped out. The tree was too heavy to be pushed over by people power. So, I tried to make it go the way it wanted. I cut above the original cut. No go. I tried to cut the hinge off on the bottom cut. Nope. The tree stayed put. I finally got my feets lightened up and cut the tree off. The little tractor arrived, I hooked up the tree, and it stubbornly went down. 

I am sore from hammering on the two different colored wedges. Fie on this method. Fie I say!


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> :mad2: Here's my tale of woe. Today I returned to "the gym" and started on a 6" Doug. All the trees are dougs. Well, it looked like it was favoring going one way, not by much, and there was no way it would hit the ground going that way. So, I tried the back cut, place wedge in, then notch method. Mistake. I used an orange wedge and my little axe. My blows were right on, and the wedge went in, and in, and in, the tree stayed. I sawed a little more on the hinge without cutting it off. No go. I added a pink wedge. The two colors were incompatible and the orange one popped out. The tree was too heavy to be pushed over by people power. So, I tried to make it go the way it wanted. I cut above the original cut. No go. I tried to cut the hinge off on the bottom cut. Nope. The tree stayed put. I finally got my feets lightened up and cut the tree off. The little tractor arrived, I hooked up the tree, and it stubbornly went down.
> 
> I am sore from hammering on the two different colored wedges. Fie on this method. Fie I say!


 
No video?


----------



## hammerlogging

056 kid said:


> ####, ####, god damnit, sonova #####, I wanna fall some ####### timber!! All this mbf talk, ####! I spent all day feeding a chipper


 
reminds me of " patience is a virtue for which I have no time to wait". reminds me of me.

its going on wet wet winter. You want something lined up for next spring. breath deeply, breath slowly.


----------



## floyd

Randy, you could have at least turned your hat around so you could make us think you were looking up every now & then.

----
Fences do that. 

I am embarassed to admit I did not fix my fence yet. Cows are all sorted in corrals.


----------



## bitzer

Well its blowin 30-40 here 39 degrees and sideways rain. I always do love the discussions of figuring/converting wood volumes and old growth timber fallin! The easy way for my conversions is 1500 bf/cord. Bending fibers is more fun then breaking them. Hold er to the stump. 

Kid I've got at least half a dozen guys you could call lookin for hand fallers right now. If'n you can handle the language, lots a beer, and brats up here! Its funny when I was callin lookin for a job nobody wanted to even talk. Now that I'm my own entity I hear all the time about cutters and crews needed here and there. 

Couple of nothin pics. This ones for ole Timer. Humboldt with snipe-like I said nothin too fancy and it keeps everything movin instead of splittin. Just skinnin cats. How much time does this save in comparison to boring out the heart? Maybe a little, but keeping a full hinge can be nice in certain situations. 







Hammerin a couple of vine-strangled snags down. Any of you guys ever get flipped a bonus for cuttin snags on private land? The guy gave me extra and will continue to give me extra for each stump. That and I pull the wood out and get paid for gettin the firewood out for him. I can usually send a saw tree in the snag's direction which opens up holes for me to lay them in anyway. 





View attachment 203582

View attachment 203583


----------



## 056 kid

I have a good feeling that I will be able to get something going for spring. We got sent out to a section being logged to take out trees above a 3 phaze. the boss man Donny is funny as hell and the cat skinner Bob is 81 years young and full of himself. Our boss Dwane is also full of it, between the three of them, there is a lot to learn. 
Im not gonna complain. .


----------



## Gologit

sierratree said:


> been cutting with the gov for 25 years. would love to get experience in the private sector. know any companies (left coast) who would hire a hand faller who hasn't worked for private? no worries, i can take a beating.


 
You might get a job on a thinning crew or maybe with one of the tree services on a ROW job but I doubt if a falling job will be easy to find. As a rule there are always more fallers than there are jobs. It's been that way as long as I can remember.

If a logging outfit needs fallers they usually have a list of guys that they already know. They want somebody whose work they're familiar with...somebody they can trust to do the job and do it right. If they don't know you and nobody already working for them will vouch for you there's just too much risk involved in hiring a man whose skills and work habits are an unknown. 

From the questions you've already asked on AS about the different ways to fall trees I don't question your sincerity. I do question your experience and skill level. Falling timber in a production setting is a whole different ballgame from taking out a firewood tree here and there. Again, from the questions you've asked and the statements you've made it's apparent that you don't have a good enough understanding of falling to work at it as a profession. That's not an attack on you. It's just the observation of a guy who's been doing it awhile. You'd best stick with the hobbyist end of the game, cut your firewood trees, and keep learning.

Besides, sometimes it's a lot more enjoyable to _get_ to cut trees than it is to _have_ to cut them.


----------



## Samlock

slowp said:


> :mad2: Here's my tale of woe. Today I returned to "the gym" and started on a 6" Doug. All the trees are dougs. Well, it looked like it was favoring going one way, not by much, and there was no way it would hit the ground going that way. So, I tried the back cut, place wedge in, then notch method. Mistake. I used an orange wedge and my little axe. My blows were right on, and the wedge went in, and in, and in, the tree stayed. I sawed a little more on the hinge without cutting it off. No go. I added a pink wedge. The two colors were incompatible and the orange one popped out. The tree was too heavy to be pushed over by people power. So, I tried to make it go the way it wanted. I cut above the original cut. No go. I tried to cut the hinge off on the bottom cut. Nope. The tree stayed put. I finally got my feets lightened up and cut the tree off. The little tractor arrived, I hooked up the tree, and it stubbornly went down.
> 
> I am sore from hammering on the two different colored wedges. Fie on this method. Fie I say!



There's no hope in h### that a 6-incher would obey a wedge of any colour. It's not about the method, it's all about physics etc...

Want to double or triple your (wo)man power pushing over a tree? Cut a 12'-15' pole with a forking end.


----------



## Metals406

Samlock said:


> There's no hope in h### that a 6-incher would obey a wedge of any colour. It's not about the method, it's all about physics etc...
> 
> Want to double or triple your (wo)man power pushing over a tree? Cut a 12'-15' pole with a forking end.


 
Yup, me and my older brother used to be put on "pole-duty" by dad when we'd go cut firewood. Can't tell ya how many trees we pushed over with a pole.

If'n a guy can't find one with a fork, you can cut a steep pigs-ear on the end so it'll dig into the tree.

I really like them tree falling gadgets with the "boat winch crank" that you anchor into the ground. I think Miss P. could really use something like that in that plantation setting.


----------



## bitzer

Very wise words Bob, cutting because you want to and cutting because you have to are very different things. It doesn't matter if its 90 or 0 degrees, rain, snow, or shine. Aches, pains, blah, blah, blah. That is how the money is made. Sharpening chains every night gets old. A day or two of not cutting gets me itchy to get out there though. Today was one of those days. All ash on top of the hill I'm cutting. Short snakey things mostly. A dozen more trees left after today and on to the next one. There is supposed to be some nice hard maple and cherry on the next hill over. 






View attachment 203786


Kid- This might twist your arm a little bit to get you up here- Northern WI/MN has some of the best hydro grown in the country! I haven't partaken myself in quite a while though. Just beer and whiskey for me now. Northern lights? Purple Nurple? Hmm? Hmm?


----------



## 056 kid

Bitzer you sonova ##### haha. We got some pretty good trees around here too ya know. You should pm me though. Fill me in on things a little. .


----------



## Sport Faller

Metals406 said:


> Yup, me and my older brother used to be put on "pole-duty" by dad when we'd go cut firewood. Can't tell ya how many trees we pushed over with a pole.
> 
> If'n a guy can't find one with a fork, you can cut a steep pigs-ear on the end so it'll dig into the tree.
> 
> I really like them tree falling gadgets with the "boat winch crank" that you anchor into the ground. I think Miss P. could really use something like that in that plantation setting.


 
Yezzir, have had to do that a couple times with trees that were maxed out as far as wedges went and just needed that little extra push to get headed towards the ground. It was usually following a conversation that went like this:

Me: I don't think that'll go
Uncle Boyd: just wedge that ####er over, don't be a #####
Me: ok then you do it
Uncle Boyd: I can't I'm busy as #### right now (walks away)


----------



## mdavlee

Here's a picture from the avenue.


----------



## hammerlogging

I tripple ported my dual port today, w/ the official 288 deflector. We'll give her a run tomorrow.


----------



## Sport Faller

I'm going away for a week and am already feeling the withdrawals from bein away from this thread 

you kids be good, Dammit
and don't forget to feed the chickens and the cows
and don't forget to let the cat in at night or the coyotes'll get him
and don't forget to close the door to the shop or the damn squirrels'll get in


----------



## Hddnis

You know the difference between a logger and jet airplane?


The jet airplane stops whining after it lands in Hawaii.



Mr. HE


----------



## OregonSawyer

bigskyjake said:


> I'm going away for a week and am already feeling the withdrawals from bein away from this thread
> 
> you kids be good, Dammit
> and don't forget to feed the chickens and the cows
> and don't forget to let the cat in at night or the coyotes'll get him
> and don't forget to close the door to the shop or the damn squirrels'll get in


 
Goin on a hunt?


----------



## Sport Faller

OregonSawyer said:


> Goin on a hunt?


 
Headed to Vegas for PBR finals and hopefully a lil profit at the poker table (not holding my breath on that one)


----------



## OregonSawyer

Sounds like a good time! Enjoy! 

BTW they have WiFi in Vegas if you get desperate.... :msp_biggrin:


----------



## Cedarkerf

Heres a couple of my imfamous Cotton woods. First one you can see hinge is just opening wedge is dropping. Second one is just a slight hill that have a bunch of em on. 

View attachment 204177
View attachment 204178


----------



## dave k

Here is a few pics of a job a couple of weeks ago in the largest collage in the country or as far as we were concerned the most crowded !! We spent two days falling and chipping with far to many distractions in tight clothes and that was just the guys !!!
Just looked at the pics I took and didn't take to many, there were 6 eucs and about 16 Holm Oaks along with 4 larch and a Sitka Spruce.


----------



## dave k

This was some of last week, Friday, then Tue and Wed at another collage in Dublin falling hazard trees and some Elms ready for a new water collection development. As you can see in the pics it got a bit wet !


----------



## dave k

A few more of the same job, not very exciting I know !


----------



## forestryworks

Not a fallin' pic, but a big tree pic; part of it anyways. Fremont Cottonwood.

Fell some pinon pine the other day for the landlord. Nothin' special, but it sure did smell good! Damn the falling itch!!


----------



## dave k

That is a good size tree ! I know what you mean about that "itch" If I'm not out falling or climbing for someone I have an arrangement with a local estate that I do the storm/natural damage and turn it into fire wood which is great since I'm always in work , but, after a few days I start looking for things that "need" to be worked on !


----------



## floyd

Randy, see how Cedarkerf is looking up? 

It gives us the illusion of safety.


----------



## Rounder

Didn't really take any falling pics, kind of going through a bit of faller's burnout. Just a few random pics from work.

Home sweet home.
View attachment 204783


Guess I did get a falling pic of cutting pard.
View attachment 204784


That's your timber guy! Ugly stuff on the East side of the divide at 7000 feet. Not sure why we're there.
View attachment 204785


Cuttin pard saying hi. Good dude.
View attachment 204786


Bridgers
View attachment 204787


----------



## Sport Faller

mtsamloggit said:


> Didn't really take any falling pics, kind of going through a bit of faller's burnout. Just a few random pics from work.
> 
> Home sweet home.
> View attachment 204783
> 
> 
> Guess I did get a falling pic of cutting pard.
> View attachment 204784
> 
> 
> That's your timber guy! Ugly stuff on the East side of the divide at 7000 feet. Not sure why we're there.
> View attachment 204785
> 
> 
> Cuttin pard saying hi. Good dude.
> View attachment 204786
> 
> 
> Bridgers
> View attachment 204787


 
Nice pics Sam, that's some grodey country it looks like about half of what was there has been down and rottin for a few years :jester:


----------



## Rounder

One more.


Yours truly with some more of those money sticks in the background and the Friday, headed-out, #### show in the truck.
View attachment 204788


Hope you all had a good, safe week - Sam


----------



## RandyMac

Burnt out Sam?

Try a different color saw for awhile.


----------



## Slamm

Sam,

Given the appearance of that timber, how do you get paid. Is it by the hour, tree, board foot, day or what? That appears to be some rough stuff.

Are you making a go of it out there?

Have a good one,

Sam


----------



## Rounder

Randy, just sick of cutting high elevation ####. It's work though. Brittle ####, won't swing worth a damn. As for saw color, I like my huskies too.......but those 2 stihls are just where I want 'em.

Sam- we are hourly on this crap. I wouldn't be there if it weren't. The timber is old as ####,tight as hell grained Doug Fir. It's got massive strength to weight ratio....so that's why they want the ####. The mill's geared for studs, so all they need is 9 relatively straight feet in the log here and there to make it pay. It still don't quite make sense to me.......but it must be working for the big boss.


----------



## RandyMac

I hear ya Sam.


----------



## Metals406

mtsamloggit said:


> Randy, just sick of cutting high elevation ####. It's work though. Brittle ####, won't swing worth a damn. As for saw color, I like my huskies too.......but those 2 stihls are just where I want 'em.
> 
> Sam- we are hourly on this crap. I wouldn't be there if it weren't. The timber is old as ####,tight as hell grained Doug Fir. It's got massive strengh to weight ratio....so that's why they want the ####. The mill's geared for studs, so all they need is 9 relatively straight feet in the log here and there to make it pay. It still don't quite make sense to me.......but it must be working for the big boss.


 
Hi elevation fir has a growth ring every 1/32". 

Makes great firewood! Dense as a politicians head. 

Keep yer chin up.


----------



## Rounder

Metals406 said:


> Hi elevation fir has a growth ring every 1/32".
> 
> Makes great firewood! Dense as a politicians head.
> 
> Keep yer chin up.


 
You want firewood, you got it. We're required to cut all snags, popped 2 fir snags the other day that were 36" across the butt. Too much spiral check to make logs, but holy hell, what nice firewood! Too bad it's so far from home. It'd be worth taking a horse trailer to get. The yarder boys had a real nice landing fire cooking.


----------



## Slamm

mtsamloggit said:


> Sam- we are hourly on this crap. I wouldn't be there if it weren't. The timber is old as ####,tight as hell grained Doug Fir. It's got massive strength to weight ratio....so that's why they want the ####. The mill's geared for studs, so all they need is 9 relatively straight feet in the log here and there to make it pay. It still don't quite make sense to me.......but it must be working for the big boss.


 
Ah yes, I was wondering, how a person could get good footage numbers with that stuff in the photos. Is it heli'd out or skidded out or do they use a forwarder? Do you buck to length where it is dropped or pull it out tree length and then buck somewhere else?

It would be interesting to see the company numbers on that job, hard to imagine it being profitable, even if you had a laser beam that could cut the tree down in a few seconds, still rough to walk to enough trees just to touch the footage, then still have to get it off the hill.

Neat stuff,

Sam


----------



## Metals406

mtsamloggit said:


> You want firewood, you got it. We're required to cut all snags, popped 2 fir snags the other day that were 36" across the butt. Too much spiral check to make logs, but holy hell, what nice firewood! Too bad it's so far from home. It'd be worth taking a horse trailer to get. The yarder boys had a real nice landing fire cooking.


 
Yeah, it does suck you're so far, or I'd be on that like white on rice.

I remember burning up some nice firewood on the landing. . . But I also remember not feeling bad about it when you were wet and cold, and the snow was up to your jimmy.


----------



## Rounder

Slamm said:


> Ah yes, I was wondering, how a person could get good footage numbers with that stuff in the photos. Is it heli'd out or skidded out or do they use a forwarder? Do you buck to length where it is dropped or pull it out tree length and then buck somewhere else?
> 
> It would be interesting to see the company numbers on that job, hard to imagine it being profitable, even if you had a laser beam that could cut the tree down in a few seconds, still rough to walk to enough trees just to touch the footage, then still have to get it off the hill.
> 
> Neat stuff,
> 
> Sam


 
All yarder wood. If it's over roughly 23" on the stump, we sidehill it and pull a log off. Otherwise, straight down the hill and the stroker takes care of it in the landing. Supposedly, due to the tight grain, this is primo ####. It must be working out for the big boss, otherwise we wouldn't be doing it, and the mill is screaming for wood. Go figure. No one close to home wants any wood. Local mills have us on load qouta. At least it's a job at the moment. Keeping 3 yarders going, along with two strokers, 1 clipper, 2 skidders, 1 loader and 5 trucks. We'll take it. Got 3 yarders running on other jobs spread across the state as well. 50 men working in the woods for one company, in this economy, in Montata, ain't a bad thing. We'll keep going till we can't - Sam


----------



## Gologit

mtsamloggit said:


> All yarder wood. If it's over roughly 23" on the stump, we sidehill it and pull a log off. Otherwise, straight down the hill and the stroker takes care of it in the landing. Supposedly, due to the tight grain, this is primo ####. It must be working out for the big boss, otherwise we wouldn't be doing it, and the mill is screaming for wood. Go figure. No one close to home wants any wood. Local mills have us on load qouta. At least it's a job at the moment. Keeping 3 yarders going, along with two strokers, 1 clipper, 2 skidders, 1 loader and 5 trucks. We'll take it. Got 3 yarders running on other jobs spread across the state as well. 50 men working in the woods for one company, in this economy, in Montata, ain't a bad thing. We'll keep going till we can't - Sam


 
Yup...get it while you can. Our mills are still screaming for logs. The Annual Fall Panic. We're going six days a week. Same old thing every year. One more cup of coffee and I'm out the door and up the hill. Take care Sam.


----------



## RandyMac

I used to love the Annual Fall Panics. I was a grunt, didn't have to do any thinking.


----------



## dave k

Hi John, yes the bar is good and Im surprised by the chain Woodland Pro ? you don't really see it in the pics but those Chestnuts have real "loopy" branches so you tend to almost pinch a bit on the tip on the small stuff 'cause you don't always see what it's doing and it went very well and even after finding some wire in a couple of the Ash it took an edge well and quick by hand.


----------



## hammerlogging

mtsamloggit said:


> Didn't really take any falling pics, kind of going through a bit of faller's burnout. Just a few random pics from work.


It happens. Just make sure you don't get hit, a burnt out moment is a real bad time to take a hit. 

yarder man is on his way for a visit. maybe we'll get a target start date, that'll add about 2 mmbf, hmmmm.


----------



## Cedarkerf

Another Cotton wood pic on a short steep face,landed the thing up on the ridge so we can drag it out with a shovel.


----------



## forestryworks

Cedarkerf said:


> Another Cotton wood pic on a short steep face,landed the thing up on the ridge so we can drag it out with a shovel.


 
I see no picture.


----------



## Cedarkerf

forestryworks said:


> I see no picture.


It shows up in your qoute and my original post


----------



## Metals406

I'm not seeing it either Brian. . . When I right click on the icon that's in the place of your picture, it says "invalid attachment".


----------



## Cedarkerf

Metals406 said:


> I'm not seeing it either Brian. . . When I right click on the icon that's in the place of your picture, it says "invalid attachment".



Ill try againView attachment 204985


----------



## forestryworks

Worked this time!


----------



## Hddnis

Looks like you're working a mild slope there.:jester:




Mr. HE


----------



## Hddnis

About like my last one, every 12" forward took you 18" up.




Mr. HE


----------



## Cedarkerf

Hddnis said:


> About like my last one, every 12" forward took you 18" up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. HE


 
Yup plenty steep and very loose


----------



## bitzer

Nice pics Brian! 

Kid- I'll pm you when I get a rain day. Been crazy busy. 

Sam- My advice to you is to start drinking heavily! A good hangover lets you know you're alive. Changes your whole perspective on ####. I've got similar saw problems- changing over to orange tomorrow.

Heres a couple from this week- Yep, pancake job.











High stumpin a couple of beauties.










View attachment 205466

View attachment 205467

View attachment 205468

View attachment 205469


----------



## Slamm

Bitzer, what kinda skidder is that?

Thanks,

Sam


----------



## upstateny

Kind of looks like the front of our 665 Clarke, but it appears to be a forwarder.


----------



## bitzer

Franklin 132. Yep its a forwarder. Most of my jobs have very tight landings like this. I'm going to need a cable skidder in the near future though for jobs that I can use it on. 

Well, I tested the limits of my homemade jack today and found them. Hard leaning maple over a drive way with the top swooping out over the driveway. I didn't want to deal with the mess and also did not want to hit the electrical box on the other side. 

Single stack nearly snugged up and no movement of the top. At this point I realized the gravity of my situation. I was in for some fun. 





Here I had it nearly standing up. I was hugging the stem while stepping on the pipe to work the plunger. Somewhere around this point I heard a crack that was not wood. The wood was definetely talking to me though.





The jack continued to lift and I had to throw a block in under a wedge to keep it going. Eventually I ran out of lift and had to cut er off. Brought it around 90 degrees though and back in the woods. 






Guess its time for the 20 ton stubby.





I left the jack on the stump and kept cutting. The mill's forester showed up later and said he'd never even heard of anyone doing that. He said I should let him know before I jack another one over so he can video it. I thought that was funny. 
View attachment 205596

View attachment 205597

View attachment 205598

View attachment 205599


----------



## Hddnis

Looks like the jack couldn't take the lateral forces at work on it.




Mr. HE


----------



## forestryworks

Time for this little fella...





By the way, looks like Silvey got 'em a new website. Looks good!


----------



## DavdH

Loven the Silveys, have a whole collection of Duff-Norton's and plates. Use the twin Silveys the most, you can see why you need the gages. It can get real interesting if you cuter off, where it will go. Local fallers climbed and rigged a big Redwood this week and pulled it, it will get scaled tomorrow, it was like 7 1log loads mostly on a low bed. In a normal year in the past we would get several one log short log loads, them days is gone mostly. Wife took the camera so no pictures to prove it...


----------



## forestryworks

DavdH said:


> Loven the Silveys, have a whole collection of Duff-Norton's and plates. Use the twin Silveys the most, you can see why you need the gages. It can get real interesting if you cuter off, where it will go. Local fallers climbed and rigged a big Redwood this week and pulled it, it will get scaled tomorrow, it was like 7 1log loads mostly on a low bed. In a normal year in the past we would get several one log short log loads, them days is gone mostly. Wife took the camera so no pictures to prove it...



That wouldn't happen to be a private ground job with Jerry B taking pictures would it?


----------



## floyd

Is that wood for boards or veneer?


----------



## hammerlogging

Bitzer, those hard maples can have really heavy tops, eh. Deceptively. And big, and bushy, a great way to brush out a bunch of other stems you need to top is to lay a hard maple down with them. 

Hollow too, and that heavy top, no wonder it broke off the hinge as it was falling. But, good enough. Thats when we say "#### it" and carry on. #### it.

Great work, and your butts look good, nice clean cutting. Are you circling around from your dutchman to cut your good side to get them to match, or just careful?

Are you trimming all that flare off for hauling?


----------



## dave k

Had a couple of Beech to lay down today both with their own problems the first one had a bad lean into another tree so had to take a few liberties with the hinge and it was lifting it's root plate then the next was badly decayed with a crown wanting to pull it sideways into a load of small trees and shrubs along with a fence but I was in luck as I only had to do the best I could since the fence was being replaced and was told not to worry about the small stuff so ended up killing a small Euc and a bit iof shrub and a load of ear ache from the woman who rents the house next to the tree !
The first gave a 8' , 14' and two 10's for milling and a heap of firewood. and it was a great day for the first week of November.
Only got a couple of the second tree and battery went in my camera so when I go back to clear up I will get a couple more and post.


----------



## DavdH

October 29,2011. Last tree on the job and the biggest and only one pulled. Around 30mbf gross scale. Yes Jerry B. took the pictures, I wasn't there.


----------



## DavdH




----------



## 056 kid

Sup everyone, my pc broke so Im not around much. I bucked some nice sitka spruce recently, been busy
that's about it. Il try and get some pics up somehow. Hope everyone is havin fun and stayin healthy!


----------



## bitzer

hammerlogging said:


> Bitzer, those hard maples can have really heavy tops, eh. Deceptively. And big, and bushy, a great way to brush out a bunch of other stems you need to top is to lay a hard maple down with them.
> 
> Hollow too, and that heavy top, no wonder it broke off the hinge as it was falling. But, good enough. Thats when we say "#### it" and carry on. #### it.
> 
> Great work, and your butts look good, nice clean cutting. Are you circling around from your dutchman to cut your good side to get them to match, or just careful?
> 
> Are you trimming all that flare off for hauling?



Yeah I tell ya a few days of flush cutting maple logs gets me beggin for ash or hickory. The tree looked nice and sound as it stood, but as soon as I layed into the back cut I knew. This is a pretty mature woods. Some big white oaks, 5-6' dbh and big maples. The majority of the maple seems to be overripe. The big white oaks are staying. That hollow maple I jacked is going on the log pile, but its up to the trucker to swing it on or past his truck to the firewood pile. It was hollow all the way to the top. 

Thanks for compliments on the cuts! My crappy cell pics might make them look better than they are. Generally I put the face in and then cut the entire far side off, pistol grip pointing to the lay. Then I either back bar the rest or just dog in and swing through on my side. Depending on the size of the tree I may need to back bar out towards the other side and cut some more off until I can come back to the hinge on my side. I usually don't circle from the other side unless my hands have had enough back-barring for the day. I think you said it about the circulation going in your hands. Mine feel like ballons every morning or like they are asleep. Most of my cuts are from the near side of the tree. Yeah in type it sounds all garbled as hell I'm sure. I do flush up the butts. It usually doesn't take much and the mill is not crazy picky. I haven't heard any complaints yet and the forester says he likes the look of my logs. I'm not a real nut for low stumps, but If I've got a tree that I need those extra inches to get a decent first log or I'm going to be driving over it its going low. I would say the vast majority of my stumps get a humboldt. Thanks again!


----------



## Sport Faller

Larch from today

[video=youtube;IL8VUYzkY9I]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IL8VUYzkY9I[/video]


----------



## DavdH

More pictures from last saturday, I didn't take them cause I wasn't there.
















They are much better than I could have done.


----------



## Metals406

Now that there is a tree!


----------



## bitzer

The dirty secret to Wisconsin handfalling- Makin 8' 4" pulp/firewood sticks. 






Waited almost three days for a ####in wing bearing! So I figured it was time for a little TSI. Normally I would just cut these along with the logs and hand bunch them all together. There are several spots on this job with all pulp sticks though, so I figured I'd get it done when I can't move logs. Yes I know, thrilling. Just trying to show the seamy under-belly. There is something very old-school about hand bunching pulp sticks.

View attachment 206206


----------



## slowp

bitzer said:


> _The dirty secret to Wisconsin handfalling- Makin 8' 4" pulp/firewood sticks. _
> Do you use a stick to measure the 8 foot lengths? Pickaroon to bunch with? There was one guy up Nort who did a small unit that way. It took him a while, but he got it.


----------



## bitzer

It depends on what type of wood and how tall. I cut basswood whips all day Sat. They were 50-60' tall. I used my tape for those. These ironwoods were only 30-40' tall and the tape's nail doesn't like to stay in the wood much. Usually I just cut a small 8' straight piece and use that for my stick in this situation. The pickeroon ends up being more of a pain than anything for me. Something else to drag around.


----------



## floyd

Yrs ago for our senior trip we went to the southeast. C60's with front & rear bunks were backed into the brush then the pulp cutters carried a 8' whip, used bows instead of bars, & hand loaded. 

I cannot recall how many loads they could get in a day.

It was amazing how far they could back those trucks into the brush. They would put the inside rear view mirror on a stalk outside for better side clearance.

The Russians thinning on the Westside reminded me of those pulp cutters in terms of efficiency.


----------



## mdavlee

Well I made a stump today. Around 23" sycamore with a good lean. I had to back bar the undercut since the 576 doesn't have a full wrap. If I stood in the creek it was around head high. I'm a little rusty but I hit both corners on the first try. Took the pic from on top of the log.


----------



## bitzer

This one is for HBRN. Some of us really make a living cutting trees, not just bull####ting about it. 

Tippin the last tree of the day. It was slowly brushing through on its way down. Time to sharpen some chains, clean my filter, get my coffee and lunch made, and maybe suck a beer or two watchin something violent or a western. Can't wait for freeze up.





View attachment 206638


----------



## Hddnis

bitzer said:


> This one is for HBRN. Some of us really make a living cutting trees, not just bull####ting about it.






Wish I could make a living BS'ing about it, seems it would be lots cleaner and probably pay more.





Mr. HE


----------



## RandyMac

There isn't always money in bull####, but it is easy on the back.


----------



## hammerlogging

I talked to Burv this afternoon. 

He's all there, as solid a dude as there ever, keepin on truckin.

Computer broke down last spring, and with all the things, one thing, or another, and such as that, well, he's been out.

But, as life does with all of us, things keep rolling, take her as she comes.

He did just pick up a smokin new 660 and says its badder than the last, which is to say yes hes still falling. Also says he loves a lot of you folks and you mean a lot to him, this little community I'll call it.

There ya go.


----------



## forestryworks

hammerlogging said:


> I talked to Burv this afternoon.
> 
> He's all there, as solid a dude as there ever, keepin on truckin.
> 
> Computer broke down last spring, and with all the things, one thing, or another, and such as that, well, he's been out.
> 
> But, as life does with all of us, things keep rolling, take her as she comes.
> 
> He did just pick up a smokin new 660 and says its badder than the last, which is to say yes hes still falling. Also says he loves a lot of you folks and you mean a lot to him, this little community I'll call it.
> 
> There ya go.



That is great news! Been wondering about that ol' Oregon Peckerhead


----------



## slowp

That's good news. He had me worried!


----------



## bitzer

Good to hear Hammer. Sure would like to see some trees from his side of the world again.


----------



## forestryworks

slowp said:


> That's good news. He had me worried!



Now we just need an update on John P!


----------



## Cedarkerf

Glad to here about him hes a good kid


----------



## mdavlee

Glad to hear Jesse is doing good.


----------



## Hddnis

hammerlogging said:


> I talked to Burv this afternoon.
> 
> He's all there, as solid a dude as there ever, keepin on truckin.
> 
> Computer broke down last spring, and with all the things, one thing, or another, and such as that, well, he's been out.
> 
> But, as life does with all of us, things keep rolling, take her as she comes.
> 
> He did just pick up a smokin new 660 and says its badder than the last, which is to say yes hes still falling. Also says he loves a lot of you folks and you mean a lot to him, this little community I'll call it.
> 
> There ya go.






If you get the chance mention that we're keeping the thread warm for him.



Mr. HE


----------



## bitzer

RandyMac said:


> There isn't always money in bull####, but it is easy on the back.



Come on now Randy! There is always money in bull####! The govt, media, mass appeal. The American Dream in action.


----------



## Rounder

I get paid to cut a lot of bull-#### timber....and I'd rather not BS about it......umpkin2:


----------



## bitzer

Here's some bull#### timber! Playin dominos. Theres a white oak in the background perpendicular to the two in the foreground that had some heavy lean toward these two. Backed that one up with wedges first. Then the basswood which was tangled up in the elm. Elm was leaning hard into the basswood. Tearin out the left side of the stump really helped pull it around. Still got 4 short logs out of that elm. 5 logs out of the basswood and 3 logs out of the oak. Lotsa rotten ass in this woods. 







View attachment 207259


----------



## RandyMac




----------



## bitzer

So thats where those ####ers keep coming from! Them bastards keep kickin my chain off lately.


----------



## RandyMac

Ha ha ha ha


----------



## Sport Faller

ARGGGH, went out to do a little cuttin today and maybe get a video or two, got about halfway there and it was windy as hell, I aint got enough stumps under my belt to be buckin the wind so I guess it's time to live vicariously through Youtube LOL


----------



## OregonSawyer

Haha. I do it weekly at least! Someday when school is out I am determined to get out to cut.


----------



## Sport Faller

OregonSawyer said:


> Haha. I do it weekly at least! Someday when school is out I am determined to get out to cut.



I was jonesin to cut today soooooo bad I was wandering around the house getting all my gear just so and triple checking everything, but it was blowin hard enough to kick my truck around quite a bit on the highway and the tree tops were doin the mambo. The little voice in my head was like "Jake, you're a dip####, GO HOME"


----------



## Sport Faller

Roma said:


> Windy as hell this morning! If it keeps snowing like this you'll have to fab yourself a springboard next time you go out!



Oh No He Di'nt, haven't had the ballz to try this B out yet, but i guess falling off into a bunch of fluffy snow wouldn't be too bad


----------



## dave k

The fluffy snow is fine it's the hard rocks under it that hurts !!


----------



## Metals406

SUPER windy right now. . . Ain't a good time to drop a tree. Would be better if it was a steady blowin', but it's gusting like a mother.


----------



## slowp

Sounds like you got our storm. It is not as breezy today but has been snowing at 1500 feet and sticking above that.


----------



## bitzer

Its been windy here since last Wednesday.

Randy, I think I found where those ####ers are hiding!






Givin this ole wihite oak one last thrill. 





Hammer- My garbled crap last week about matching my cuts made little sense. Here it is in pic form. Just a little kicker dutch, but I do the same for the full dutch. I make my way around the back from my side to the far side. If my cuts are not lined up when I get there either my gunning cut is messed up (nothing to be done there) or I adjust my backcut and proceed back to my (good) side. My cuts have been looking more and more like this, with less effort, which I am damn excited about. I think if the back cut is misaligned by a kerf's distance that thin plate that has to break slows things down somewhat. 





Alright, I gotta go sharpen chains before I fall asleep. No rest for the wicked.

View attachment 207642

View attachment 207643

View attachment 207644


----------



## Rounder

Kind of a tough week. Lots of time going broke sitting in a motel room. Only burned a tank on Monday before we got winded out. Rigging rats even left early. Not good, we're desperate to wrap this job up. Too damn high, too late in the year. 

Wind
View attachment 207693


Mikey moves his moveable stump
View attachment 207694


Looking down on the Bridgers
View attachment 207695


Little more than that this morning.....just a little
View attachment 207697


The boys plowed the spur out for us this morning. Little snow on the yarders. Playing the truck shuffling game. Another yarder a ways behind that one. We got to go for a nature hike to the strip. 
View attachment 207698


Hope you all had a good safe week. -Sam


----------



## Metals406

Great pictures Sam! Although, one of my least favorite seasons to log in. Well, that and when it's 95° out and the dust is waist deep.


----------



## Sport Faller

mtsamloggit said:


> Kind of a tough week. Lots of time going broke sitting in a motel room. Only burned a tank on Monday before we got winded out. Rigging rats even left early. Not good, we're desperate to wrap this job up. Too damn high, too late in the year.
> 
> Wind
> View attachment 207693
> 
> 
> Mikey moves his moveable stump
> View attachment 207694
> 
> 
> Looking down on the Bridgers
> View attachment 207695
> 
> 
> Little more than that this morning.....just a little
> View attachment 207697
> 
> 
> The boys plowed the spur out for us this morning. Little snow on the yarders. Playing the truck shuffling game. Another yarder a ways behind that one. We got to go for a nature hike to the strip.
> View attachment 207698
> 
> 
> Hope you all had a good safe week. -Sam



Nice, looks like east of the mountains, when the wind stops blowin the antelope fall over :hmm3grin2orange:

oh, hey, do you _have_ to have a red truck to work there? :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## wowzers

You aint kidding about the wind. Cutting guy backs was terrible. At least when we went high banking it calmed down.


----------



## Gologit

bigskyjake said:


> oh, hey, do you _have_ to have a red truck to work there? :hmm3grin2orange:



I was going to ask that, too. My mini-crummy is gray...I better stay in California. :smile2:


----------



## Rounder

bigskyjake said:


> Nice, looks like east of the mountains, when the wind stops blowin the antelope fall over :hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> oh, hey, do you _have_ to have a red truck to work there? :hmm3grin2orange:



When the wind stops blowing, the fallers fall over......The excaline crew has a blueferd. But yeah, the only 2 yarder crews with red rigs are stuck over there in Bozo. I just wanted to make sure my truck matched my Suby - Sam


----------



## bitzer

Nice pics Sam! Our snow is gone already. Its been pretty snappy in the mornings here though. With the wind blowin it really gives you that sharp as a tack feeling.


----------



## hammerlogging

Sam, i think I've got a problem with that view. I think you've got a real problem with that view. Hang in there.

The browning lean, thats funny.


----------



## bitzer

####, I believe its time for some strong drink. Too bad there wasn't a tavern we could all meet at and just shoot the #### for a good while.


----------



## Rounder

bitzer said:


> ####, I believe its time for some strong drink. Too bad there wasn't a tavern we could all meet at and just shoot the #### for a good while.



Beer on the porch, help yourself....whiskey's next to the chest freezer....bring the bottle over with glasses


----------



## RandyMac

We should meet up in Nevada some day.


----------



## Rounder

Raise a glass boys and girls, officially sawed out the Bozo job this morning. Wind blew like a ####er right to the bitter end.

Hope you all get a little time to rest up over the holiday - Sam


----------



## Sport Faller

mtsamloggit said:


> Raise a glass boys and girls, officially sawed out the Bozo job this morning. Wind blew like a ####er right to the bitter end.
> 
> Hope you all get a little time to rest up over the holiday - Sam



Hell yeah old son, you get to be a little closer to home now?


----------



## Rounder

bigskyjake said:


> Hell yeah old son, you get to be a little closer to home now?



Yes, thank God. Still be moteling it, but should be able to sneak home on Wednesday nights at least.


----------



## Metals406

Thank you coastal brethren, this warm wind is awesome! 

Sam, glad you're closer to home. . . You take your saw off CL?


----------



## Greystoke

mtsamloggit said:


> Beer on the porch, help yourself....whiskey's next to the chest freezer....bring the bottle over with glasses



So that's where you keep the whiskey! I'm storin this info til I come over again, and I ain't bringin glasses by god!


----------



## Rounder

Metals406 said:


> Thank you coastal brethren, this warm wind is awesome!
> 
> Sam, glad you're closer to home. . . You take your saw off CL?



Glad you're getting that warm wind too, kind of brutal here in the canyon this past weekend. Saw is still on CL......Must not be any fallers left to buy the damn thing!


----------



## Sport Faller

mtsamloggit said:


> Glad you're getting that warm wind too, kind of brutal here in the canyon this past weekend. Saw is still on CL......Must not be any fallers left to buy the damn thing!



hey, it's not a 660 or a 394 is it?


----------



## Rounder

tarzanstree said:


> So that's where you keep the whiskey! I'm storin this info til I come over again, and I ain't bringin glasses by god!



Quit bull-####tin' you knew exactly were it was. You gonna be around the house tomorow? Heading to the saw shop, I'll swing by for some chain and more bs if you'll be in.


----------



## RandyMac

It is a warm wind that blows tonight, 35 knots worth, temp is rising ahead of the next front, went from 52 to 57 in the last 4 hours. This can't be good.


----------



## Sport Faller

RandyMac said:


> It is a warm wind that blows tonight, 35 knots worth, temp is rising ahead of the next front, went from 52 to 57 in the last 4 hours. This can't be good.



Aye Cap'n, she's a Nor' Wester' that'll blow like the milltails of hell and put frostbite on Davey Jones' ass 'fore she's through


----------



## RandyMac

You got it Jake, went from 54 at 9am to 48, wind picked up and it is pouring.


----------



## slowp

My report. At 5AM it was 48 out. Now it is 44.

I put out my 5 gallon bucket at 4PM yesterday, and it now has 1.25 inches of water in it. I used my bright pink wooden Smokey Bear ruler. 

It is still raining. It has not slacked off at all this morning. It has been a good pie baking day. Now, I'll have to weatherize and go out, or go crazy.


----------



## paccity

still raining, at least the wind droped off . had about 100mph winds yesterday, hwy 18 to the coast closed due to downed trees. happens every year they cut up to a 100 yards off the road and can't figure why they come down when the wind blows. the ironic thing about it is a logtruck got nailed by a tree . it allways takes them forever to clear it because the state hwy dept. are afraid of a little wind to go buck it out.


----------



## Metals406

Your weather is confusing the fish. . .

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/HAH_0Ql1Kq4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


----------



## paccity

ya thats funny $$$$ there. seems to happen there all the time. the heck with hillbilly hand fishin "noodling" just send your little friend out to fetch them up.


----------



## slowp

It is good for driving, but not for skiing.

WSDOT - White Pass Road and Weather Conditions


----------



## bitzer

Ok enough of the damn weather, our trees are too short to blow over in any regular interval. I do thank you boys from the west for the block face though, specifically Randy and Bob. 

These are great for production and there happens to be quite a few next to the house and buildings on this one. The first 10' was firewood. I ended up with 3 8's. I have to admit I cheated on this one. Had a cable 2/3s up with the other end on my machine as someone pulled and I cut. It was leaning hard over the shed. Wedges buried and dead limbs raining. Got my rush for the day.











Just realized in 2 days this thread will be 2 years old. I'm 8 pints in tonight boys. Bout to hit the sack. Little bro turned 15 today, had to celebrate. I'll be 30 in a couple months. ####, where does it go? 

Happy Thanksgiving to you all! 

View attachment 208439

View attachment 208440


----------



## Hddnis

Hey, that ain't cheating. Way I see it is mother nature has stacked the deck against us, mined the road to get there, razor wire and tank traps, etc. Then there are the dangers of actually starting to cut the tree. If a cable up there and a friend pulling means you win I say more power to ya. It is fun to git-er-done using as little help as possible, makes us feel like we have a fighting chance and all that. But, if you have to go all D-day on a tree to be sure you win then I say do it and be proud that you had the firepower available.



Mr. HE


----------



## bitzer

Playin cheap tree service again today. Waited for the wind to finally die for these. Not much for yield.

Second stump of the day. Leaning back pretty good and the road parallel to the lay. Nice and snappy this morning. 





Threadin the needle a little.





How long is this fix going to last? Bets???? The modified nail has been on for several weeks now, but I'm not sure about the link.




View attachment 209261

View attachment 209262

View attachment 209263


----------



## Sport Faller

it woulda lasted forever, but takin a pic and askin about it automatically means it's goin to snap tomorrow


----------



## bitzer

bigskyjake said:


> it woulda lasted forever, but takin a pic and askin about it automatically means it's goin to snap tomorrow



What about the bet?


Jesus christ, I gotta stop chokin this thread up with my pics. Ok, thats it till I move to the next one.


----------



## Metals406

bitzer said:


> What about the bet?
> 
> 
> Jesus christ, I gotta stop chokin this thread up with my pics. Ok, thats it till I move to the next one.



Hey Bitz, what do all the locals say about all your West Coast felling techniques? Bet they wanna show ya the sloping backcut or bore cut. :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Rounder

bitzer said:


> What about the bet?
> 
> 
> Jesus christ, I gotta stop chokin this thread up with my pics. Ok, thats it till I move to the next one.



You ain't choking anything up, always neat to see pics of how things are done elsewhere.
You staying steady? Hope so.
Got a day off tomorow, new job and everything's all ####ed up already. This has still gotta be approved, that's still gotta be approved................#### Me!!!!!!! Sometimes you just have to wonder if you're the only ####er getting anything done.

Hope the new venture's going good Bob, keep it up with the pics - Sam


----------



## Sport Faller

bitzer said:


> What about the bet?
> 
> 
> Jesus christ, I gotta stop chokin this thread up with my pics. Ok, thats it till I move to the next one.



I'm too damn broke to bet, but I'll give you 50 cool points :hmm3grin2orange:



Metals406 said:


> Hey Bitz, what do all the locals say about all your West Coast felling techniques? Bet they wanna show ya the sloping backcut or bore cut. :hmm3grin2orange:



"Whazzat Sonny Jim? you young fellas wi cha fancy Humboldts and ya 28" bars and ya full wrap handlebars, foooey says I"


----------



## Sport Faller

mtsamloggit said:


> You ain't choking anything up, always neat to see pics of how things are done elsewhere.
> You staying steady? Hope so.
> Got a day off tomorow, new job and everything's all ####ed up already. This has still gotta be approved, that's still gotta be approved................#### Me!!!!!!! Sometimes you just have to wonder if you're the only ####er getting anything done.
> 
> Hope the new venture's going good Bob, keep it up with the pics - Sam



Awwwww, come on Sam, you know yer happy as the devil in hell to go wolf huntin tomorrow


----------



## Rounder

bigskyjake said:


> Awwwww, come on Sam, you know yer happy as the devil in hell to go wolf huntin tomorrow



I wish, no rest for the wicked


----------



## Hddnis

Wolf huntin? Smoke a pack for me will ya!



Mr. HE


----------



## NORMZILLA44

bitzer said:


> Ok enough of the damn weather, our trees are too short to blow over in any regular interval. I do thank you boys from the west for the block face though, specifically Randy and Bob.
> 
> These are great for production and there happens to be quite a few next to the house and buildings on this one. The first 10' was firewood. I ended up with 3 8's. I have to admit I cheated on this one. Had a cable 2/3s up with the other end on my machine as someone pulled and I cut. It was leaning hard over the shed. Wedges buried and dead limbs raining. Got my rush for the day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just realized in 2 days this thread will be 2 years old. I'm 8 pints in tonight boys. Bout to hit the sack. Little bro turned 15 today, had to celebrate. I'll be 30 in a couple months. ####, where does it go?
> 
> Happy Thanksgiving to you all!
> 
> View attachment 208439
> 
> View attachment 208440


 Sometime's that is just cheap insurance, even when I was 99-100 percent sure where the tree would go, I we threw a Bull rope in it. Especially with house'd, and building's. We get that alot. I dug up, and old pic, we fell this tree over a reataining wall, and just to my left if looking from the backcut view, was a house about 30 feet or less. My friend-partner, and I were facing it, then threw in the wedges. The whole time there were people eating lunch next door, not paying any attention to us. Then I starte'd the back cut, and realize'd quick the holding wood was gonna have some rot. Because I still had some sawing, and it starte'd to barber chair. Slight moment of panic, my buddy siad something I forget, but I said whatever I did, and he say's I think were ######. Just then the folk's eating lunch gave notice, and a guy was looking right at me, and actually pause'd mid bite of a sandwhich. It all happene'd fast, the tree settled, but I sawe'd like a son of a b####. Layed right where we wante'd, and had a bull rope to a neighbooring tree. Nice job on the blockout.


----------



## bitzer

Metals- Haha! I usually get a lot of, "I've never seen that before". If they ask for an explaination I generally get that vacant stare as I'm going through it. The mill's forester hung out for a couple of hours the first few days I was in the woods to show me how the mill wanted the logs and how to mazimize my boardfootage. He had me bore and fell everything with the lean. I played along those first couple of days. That got old quick. He thinks its pretty amazing how far I can get trees to swing and hasn't said much on bore cutting since. The locals themselves seem fairly knowledgable. They know the farmer cut is no good. The landowner on this current job was taught by the great Swede himself in the ways of plunge cutting. He watched me jack one over and said he had never seen anything like that either. Funny stuff. 

Sam- Things are coming together a little better. Major learning curve on the machine to begin with, but its coming along. Yeah I obviously don't have too many people to share my general excitment of felling trees. Gotta let that out somewhere. Hopefully those bastards will get their #### together on your job. Nothing drives me more crazy than waitin around for someone else to figure something out. 

Norm- Sometimes you just gotta get lucky right?! Thanks!

Throw some chips boys!


----------



## RandyMac

Bitz, hit it hard, hit it often.


----------



## Gologit

And hit it square.


----------



## bitzer

Are we talkin about wood, whiskey, or women here?


----------



## Gologit

bitzer said:


> Are we talkin about wood, whiskey, or women here?




Why "or" ? Think "and".


----------



## bitzer

Gologit said:


> Why "or" ? Think "and".



Well Bob, guess I'm still learning the ropes. Now if I could just lay into some OG timber, I might turn out ok!


----------



## bitzer

bigskyjake said:


> it woulda lasted forever, but takin a pic and askin about it automatically means it's goin to snap tomorrow



Well, Jake you lost the bet, now pay up! But can I trade those cool points for something worth while like, beer. You can get moose drool straight from its source, correct?


----------



## Sport Faller

bitzer said:


> Well, Jake you lost the bet, now pay up! But can I trade those cool points for something worth while like, beer. You can get moose drool straight from its source, correct?



If you ever make it out this way I'll get the beer for sure, as far as Moose Drool straight offa the moose, well then, you're balls must be so big that you have serious trouble walking sometimes, a damn moose is waay scarier than a grizzly. They're blind, kinda stupid, and meaner than #### for no damn reason at all


----------



## Rounder

bitzer said:


> Well, Jake you lost the bet, now pay up! But can I trade those cool points for something worth while like, beer. You can get moose drool straight from its source, correct?



It can be had straight from the source at the brewery in town.....you just gotta elbow your way through the trustafarians and yuppies first. The Slow Elk Stout and Heavy Horse are better though.


----------



## forestryworks

mtsamloggit said:


> The Slow Elk Stout and Heavy Horse are better though.



Kick ass beer names!


----------



## Sport Faller

mtsamloggit said:


> It can be had straight from the source at the brewery in town.....you just gotta elbow your way through the trustafarians and yuppies first. The Slow Elk Stout and Heavy Horse are better though.



I dunno man, I've tried those before and I'll still take High Life or Rolling Rock that's been open for a week LOL


----------



## bitzer

The first time I had a Moose Drool it was on tap in Missolua about 12 years ago. I was 18. I think I took down 5 or 6 of em coupled with a little wildwood weed and I was feelin fine. I also came eyeball to eyeball with a sow and calf on some switchback trail that trip. The drool has been available around here for a couple of years. The more coffee I drink and the older I get the darker I seem to like my beer. I haven't tried the others you named, Sam. I will have to look for em. Stuffs not cheap around here though. Something like 8 bucks a sixer. Usually I just settle into the old stand by I was raised on, Miller Lite.


----------



## Gologit

mtsamloggit said:


> It can be had straight from the source at the brewery in town.....you just gotta elbow your way through the trustafarians and yuppies first. The Slow Elk Stout and Heavy Horse are better though.



"Trustafarians"...I think I just learned a new word. Good one, Jake.


----------



## mdavlee

I had some spotted cow from Wisconsin and it was great. It's not a real dark beer either.


----------



## forestryworks

I had two Moose Drools three years ago, in a bar called Bull O' the Woods Saloon, in the little high elevation mountain town of Red River, NM.


----------



## OregonSawyer

With all this talk about beer and it being Friday afternoon....

Living on the left coast it seems that you can turn into somewhat of a beer snob. There are breweries everywhere. There's three major ones in my city alone. Not sure how widespread this brand is yet (only a couple years old) but if you darker beer connoisseurs can get your hands on some Ninkasi OATIS (Oatmeal Stout) you will be satisfied.


----------



## Joe46

OregonSawyer said:


> With all this talk about beer and it being Friday afternoon....
> 
> Living on the left coast it seems that you can turn into somewhat of a beer snob. There are breweries everywhere. There's three major ones in my city alone. Not sure how widespread this brand is yet (only a couple years old) but if you darker beer connoisseurs can get your hands on some Ninkasi OATIS (Oatmeal Stout) you will be satisfied.



I'll have to look for that! In the mean time I'll just have crack a Deschutes Obsidian Stout!


----------



## OregonSawyer

forestryworks said:


> Kick ass beer names!



On the subject of beer names - this one gets me every time! Problem is it's very good!


----------



## Metals406

OregonSawyer said:


> On the subject of beer names - this one gets me every time! Problem is it's very good!



I'll take a 6'er of this and the oatmeal. . . Just pretend this is the Christmas Giving thread. :wink2:


----------



## wowzers

OregonSawyer said:


> With all this talk about beer and it being Friday afternoon....
> 
> Living on the left coast it seems that you can turn into somewhat of a beer snob. There are breweries everywhere. There's three major ones in my city alone. Not sure how widespread this brand is yet (only a couple years old) but if you darker beer connoisseurs can get your hands on some Ninkasi OATIS (Oatmeal Stout) you will be satisfied.



Those are mighty tasty. I seem to fluctuate between good beer and busch light/keystone.


----------



## bitzer

Yeah we've got the same thing around here with micro brews. They are everywhere in this state. Must be the Northern Euro heritage that moved in here 150 years ago. They mined, cut a lot of timber, and drank a lot of beer. There is a liqour store in the town nearest to me that I swear you could take a different micro brew home for every day of the year. Spotted Cow comes from New Glarus. They make all kinds of crazy crap now. Fat Squirrel is the only one I will really drink from that town. Swedes seem to like their beer sweet. My buddies and I used to pick up 30 packs of Busch light for fishing beer. 2 guys per pack usually got er done.


----------



## Sport Faller

Uh Oh, What Dis?
Nate Diggity gettin dug in on a double bar length OG Larch with my new 660












Went over to Nate's Saw Ranch to get my sick-60 looked over a little and just happened to find a couple trees that needed to get horizontal and he hooked up a sweet muffler mod for me too!


----------



## DavdH




----------



## Metals406

Hahahaha, I look like I'm in pain! LOL Must be squinting so'z I don't get the chip-to-eye disorder. I didn't even realize you were taking pictures. . . That Uncle Jake is sneaky.

Bet them carpenter ants had a cold night!


----------



## Sport Faller

Metals406 said:


> Hahahaha, I look like I'm in pain! LOL Must be squinting so'z I don't get the chip-to-eye disorder. I didn't even realize you were taking pictures. . . That Uncle Jake is sneaky.
> 
> Bet them carpenter ants had a cold night!



It's from all that raw power in your hands 

Those ants are standin around shakin like a dog ####tin peach seeds


----------



## forestryworks

bigskyjake said:


>



You GOL-side-switchin'-on-the-backcut-whilst-holdin'-in-a-fart tree cuttin' fool! :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Metals406

After the 2 Larch were down, I cut a bunch of 4' lengths, and Paw-Paw was splitting them in 3 hits with Nater's secret wood split'n weapon. 

I'd show ya what it is. . . But then I'd have to kill you.


----------



## Metals406

forestryworks said:


> You GOL-side-switchin'-on-the-backcut-whilst-holdin'-in-a-fart tree cuttin' fool! :hmm3grin2orange:



GOL? Them there are fighting words! :msp_mad:

I would clearly fail a GOL course anyway. . . No eye protection, ear protection firmly attached to my neck, no chaps, a 660 w/ 32" bar, no plunge cut, Humboldt face, the list goes on and on!


----------



## bitzer

First thinning of 45 year old Red Pines. Average dbh 8-10". Average height 70'. All pulp sticks. I cut these on a day when the wind was blowing 30-35mph so they would shake out. Worked pretty well actually. Knowing when to gun it, cut some or all of the hinge off was key. This is less than an acre and just kind of got bunched into the hardwood job. Not worth it for a processor to come in. 







A decent cherry log from just outside of the pines. 





View attachment 210734
View attachment 210735


----------



## Rounder

Metals406 said:


> After the 2 Larch were down, I cut a bunch of 4' lengths, and Paw-Paw was splitting them in 3 hits with Nater's secret wood split'n weapon.
> 
> I'd show ya what it is. . . But then I'd have to kill you.



Seen it with my own eyes guy.......I like it - Sam


----------



## Metals406

mtsamloggit said:


> Seen it with my own eyes guy.......I like it - Sam



Great. . . Now I have to kill you.


----------



## forestryworks

Metals406 said:


> Great. . . Now I have to kill you.



I saw it on paper :biggrinbounce2:


----------



## Rounder

Metals406 said:


> Great. . . Now I have to kill you.




Dammit!


----------



## Sport Faller

You damn kids play nice DAMMIT!
I'll turn this car around so ####in quick, don't make me do it!


----------



## Metals406

forestryworks said:


> I saw it on paper :biggrinbounce2:



I only have to blind you then.


----------



## Metals406

bigskyjake said:


> You damn kids play nice DAMMIT!
> I'll turn this car around so ####in quick, don't make me do it!



But Jameson and Sam ARE ON MY SIDE! I HAVE TO PEE! Are we there yet?


----------



## Sport Faller

Metals406 said:


> I only have to blind you then.



Have Uncle scratch his eyes out


----------



## Samlock

bitzer said:


> View attachment 210734
> View attachment 210735



A clean thinning job, Bitzer. Placing a stick crosswise under every stack might help loading a bit.

What tools do you stack the pulp sticks with? Pulp hook? Lifting tong?


----------



## bitzer

Samlock said:


> A clean thinning job, Bitzer. Placing a stick crosswise under every stack might help loading a bit.
> 
> What tools do you stack the pulp sticks with? Pulp hook? Lifting tong?



Thanks! It actually turned out pretty nice. I think it was 75 Red Pine and 30 Norway Spruce in all. I busted ass and got it all done today. I barely pulled a truckload out (12 cords). The forester marked the harvest trees by defect not ease of removal. I got into some pretty tight spots and nearly had to cut myself out as it got dark tonight. That would have been fun. My lights only point forward and back. Its all hand bunching. Yep, end over end or hefting the little ones. Actually goes pretty quick. The wood is too frozen now to get my hookeroon into them. I'm moving to my next job Monday with some decent timber. I can't wait! Its supposed to warm up to 40 tommorrow with a chance of rain Monday. That might make the hill on my next one fun. The only problem with the cross-wise stick is picking that one up at the end! If I get a little dirt or brush it doesn't bother me. Usually I pull the stacks up pretty clean. I'm sure the trucker will ##### about it anyway though.


----------



## Gologit

bitzer said:


> Thanks! It actually turned out pretty nice. I think it was 75 Red Pine and 30 Norway Spruce in all. I busted ass and got it all done today. I barely pulled a truckload out (12 cords). The forester marked the harvest trees by defect not ease of removal. I got into some pretty tight spots and nearly had to cut myself out as it got dark tonight. That would have been fun. My lights only point forward and back. Its all hand bunching. Yep, end over end or hefting the little ones. Actually goes pretty quick. The wood is too frozen now to get my hookeroon into them. I'm moving to my next job Monday with some decent timber. I can't wait! Its supposed to warm up to 40 tommorrow with a chance of rain Monday. That might make the hill on my next one fun. The only problem with the cross-wise stick is picking that one up at the end! If I get a little dirt or brush it doesn't bother me. Usually I pull the stacks up pretty clean. I'm sure the trucker will ##### about it anyway though.



You might try mounting some additional lights at 45 degree angles wherever you can. I had some on my 6, switched separately from the regular working lights, and they really helped. You can never have too many lights.


----------



## bitzer

Gologit said:


> You might try mounting some additional lights at 45 degree angles wherever you can. I had some on my 6, switched separately from the regular working lights, and they really helped. You can never have too many lights.



I actually took the two off of the sides. They were busted when I got the machine and I haven't replaced them yet. I definetely need them. I actually busted one of my back lights the other day too, so I was only running three. We are only getting about 10 hours of light these days. I didn't even bother to stack the logs out at the landing. I don't usually leave the machine with a full bunk, but the landing is on the owner's driveway and I'd hate to come back Monday and have the him tell me he had to move a bunch of logs to get out. I suck at stacking pulp sticks as it is.


----------



## Gologit

bitzer said:


> I actually took the two off of the sides. They were busted when I got the machine and I haven't replaced them yet. I definetely need them. I actually busted one of my back lights the other day too, so I was only running three. We are only getting about 10 hours of light these days. I didn't even bother to stack the logs out at the landing. I don't usually leave the machine with a full bunk, but the landing is on the owner's driveway and I'd hate to come back Monday and have the him tell me he had to move a bunch of logs to get out. I suck at stacking pulp sticks as it is.



LOL...lights. They're definitely an expendable. I tried lots of different kinds and finally settled on the regular Cat lights set in a metal mesh box with a hinged mesh cover. And I _still_ whacked one now and then. I kept a few extra ready-made wires with quick connects handy, too. Sure beats trying to twist two wire ends together in the dark and rain.

Another trick...I found a control stick grip from an old fighter plane. The kind with several buttons and switches on it. I mounted it on the right hand control lever and ran my working light circuits to it. Once your muscle memory stores which switch does what it really makes things easier. No more fumbling all over the dashboard trying to find the right switch.


----------



## Steve NW WI

On the lights, I tell ya what, if you can find a safe place for em, HID is the way to go. Tractor my renter plants with has em, they shine to the end of a 40' planter and then some, just about like daylight. They ain't cheap at $400 or so a pair, but you see just about every full time farmer that has to work at night adding em to the old machines and ordering the new with em. 

Figure out where to hide em from the tree branches trying to get even with ya, weld em on, and fear darkness no more. 

I seldom give 3 thumbs up to anything, but these are the exception. I might be putting a set on the firewood hauler for snowplow duty soon.

Lemme know if you want a link to a couple good places to buy em, I'd have to look a little to find it again.

If they'd have been around back then, God would've used HIDs for the sun.


----------



## Gologit

Sounds good Steve. But...at four hundred bucks a pair if I busted one off on a limb you'd probably be able to hear me cussing from way out there where you live. If I busted a _pair_ of them I'd probably have a good ol' time riggin fit.

Besides, us poor old broke loggers can't afford such fancy stuff. And everybody knows you farmers make BIG bucks.


----------



## Samlock

bitzer said:


> Thanks! It actually turned out pretty nice. I think it was 75 Red Pine and 30 Norway Spruce in all. I busted ass and got it all done today. I barely pulled a truckload out (12 cords). The forester marked the harvest trees by defect not ease of removal. I got into some pretty tight spots and nearly had to cut myself out as it got dark tonight. That would have been fun. My lights only point forward and back. Its all hand bunching. Yep, end over end or hefting the little ones. Actually goes pretty quick. The wood is too frozen now to get my hookeroon into them. I'm moving to my next job Monday with some decent timber. I can't wait! Its supposed to warm up to 40 tommorrow with a chance of rain Monday. That might make the hill on my next one fun. The only problem with the cross-wise stick is picking that one up at the end! If I get a little dirt or brush it doesn't bother me. Usually I pull the stacks up pretty clean. I'm sure the trucker will ##### about it anyway though.



Up here the forwarder operators usually just leave most of the crosswise sticks behind. Still they appreciate putting them. 'Specially in the snowy season. Effectiveness is all.

A forester marked the timber? Lucky thing we don't have such a protocol here. Cutter makes always such decisions. In many cases a forester does never see the place, just maps and data. I say lucky, because a forester probably wouldn't give much thought for the actual felling. 

I've taken a stick on my foot once too many times, I never go out there cutting sticks without a hook and a tong.


----------



## Hddnis

On the topic of lights, my brother outfits fire trucks, brush rig kind too, and all sorts of off road machines, he has these new surface mount LED lights he was showing me. They are all of about 3/4" thick and he puts them inside 3" C-channel guards that he makes. They are awfully bright, at least as bright as a 55watt tractor work light. I don't think he is paying more than $50.00 or so for them. Inside that guard they are just about bullet proof, he's never had one damaged or come off. I'll see if he can send me some pictures and more info. I don't know that he's mounted any on skidders, but he did put some on a hydra-axe type machine a few months ago and they take a beating.




Mr. HE


----------



## madhatte

Samlock said:


> a forester probably wouldn't give much thought for the actual felling.



Hey now, we're working on that. Part of it is training and part of it is making the markers understand and care that somebody will be in there after they're gone. I daresay you'd like working in my units -- I always have the big picture in mind, and will take a group or leave it depending on access and lay. The individual tree means nothing if the stand is ignored. One of my sales came down this spring and I couldn't be happier with the residual stand -- this thing is gonna go BOOM! in the next few years, and it already has five distinct cohorts growing in it, from scraggly prairie pioneers to knee-high seedlings. This was a third entry and is a textbook example of how to make VDT work.


----------



## bitzer

madhatte said:


> Hey now, we're working on that. Part of it is training and part of it is making the markers understand and care that somebody will be in there after they're gone. I daresay you'd like working in my units -- I always have the big picture in mind, and will take a group or leave it depending on access and lay. The individual tree means nothing if the stand is ignored. One of my sales came down this spring and I couldn't be happier with the residual stand -- this thing is gonna go BOOM! in the next few years, and it already has five distinct cohorts growing in it, from scraggly prairie pioneers to knee-high seedlings. This was a third entry and is a textbook example of how to make VDT work.



My guy is actually a pretty good marker I think. He puts the little toe spot on the base, but gives me nice thick horizontals about eye level or slashes on the pulp trees. He tries to anticipate how the trees will lay out and mark accordingly and he really does have the future stand in mind as his ultimate goal. I do too for that matter. Hopefully I'll be back around at these same stands in 20 years. I know his job is tough in terms of layouts. He usually leaves the roads to me though. There is often some type of existing or old logging road I can use. I think no matter how you sliced it that pine stand was going to be a ##### to thin as I'm sure the first thinning is on many.


----------



## madhatte

bitzer said:


> I think no matter how you sliced it that pine stand was going to be a ##### to thin as I'm sure the first thinning is on many.



First entry sets the tone for the entries to follow. Screw up the first entry, and subsequent entries will be a game of catch-up. Roads will make or break an operation. Putting roads to bed may look good on paper, but if the stand is ever to be re-visited, it's best that there be an existing road-bed to recover and re-use. I worked in a first-entry pre-commercial unit not too long ago which was a 30+ year old plantation, long-forgotten. It was the intact road grades under the canopy that made the operation possible; the wet ground would otherwise have ground things to a halt. Finding good rock under a foot of leaf debris was a bit of very good fortune.


----------



## Samlock

madhatte said:


> Hey now, we're working on that. Part of it is training and part of it is making the markers understand and care that somebody will be in there after they're gone. I daresay you'd like working in my units -- I always have the big picture in mind, and will take a group or leave it depending on access and lay. The individual tree means nothing if the stand is ignored. One of my sales came down this spring and I couldn't be happier with the residual stand -- this thing is gonna go BOOM! in the next few years, and it already has five distinct cohorts growing in it, from scraggly prairie pioneers to knee-high seedlings. This was a third entry and is a textbook example of how to make VDT work.



Haha, I'm confident working in your units would be a shear hell, Nate, just as it is anywhere in the world...

This is one of the cultural differences. If you came here and painted a stand for cutting as usual, people would take long drives just to see that. You do that once, it would make a tourist attraction. You do that twice - they'd send you to an art school! 

No marked trees in the commercial logging. Never. All you get from a forester is an e-mailed map, a copy of the sales and a copy of the forest plan - if there is one. The cutters - nowadays they always arrive alone - figure out themselves what to do next. There is pre-meditated schemes for thinning based on species, basal area, DBH and height. You just follow them unless there's some other agreement. The foresters here don't get much time in the woods. You very seldom see a fellow human being during the cutting days. The foresters got their aerial pictures and laser scanning data and plans and other computer things to play with.

Your way works there, I believe. Our way sometimes doesn't work, but it usually does.


----------



## slowp

madhatte said:


> First entry sets the tone for the entries to follow. Screw up the first entry, and subsequent entries will be a game of catch-up. Roads will make or break an operation. Putting roads to bed may look good on paper, but if the stand is ever to be re-visited, it's best that there be an existing road-bed to recover and re-use. I worked in a first-entry pre-commercial unit not too long ago which was a 30+ year old plantation, long-forgotten. It was the intact road grades under the canopy that made the operation possible; the wet ground would otherwise have ground things to a halt. Finding good rock under a foot of leaf debris was a bit of very good fortune.



Sometimes calks get worn a bit in the scuffing at the dirt to "see if there's any rock under that." There usually is. And the old roads were often wide. Very wide.


----------



## madhatte

Samlock said:


> If you came here and painted a stand for cutting as usual, people would take long drives just to see that. You do that once, it would make a tourist attraction. You do that twice - they'd send you to an art school!



Hey, now, I have an art degree, too...



Samlock said:


> The foresters got their aerial pictures and laser scanning data and plans and other computer things to play with.



We use that stuff in initial planning and in landscape-level modeling, but we still have to go in and ground-truth what we THINK is there and then mark accordingly. LIDAR and airphotos and all that are great for planning, but they're never better than just snapshots in time, and always in the past, no matter how recent.


----------



## bitzer

The new job. This is the flatest part. The steepest is getting a little sketchy for forwarder country I'm thinking. Working the northeast corner of this hill but there is timber all over it and down the other side. A lot of ash reduction and maple. Short trees with only 20-30 feet of logs in them. The rest is pulp/firewood. Feels damn good to be cutting some sawtimber though. I made 100 cords over the last three weeks with only a trickle of about 8,000bf to go along with it. I'm enjoying the crashing and destruction again.






View attachment 211233


----------



## Samlock

madhatte said:


> Hey, now, I have an art degree, too...
> 
> 
> 
> We use that stuff in initial planning and in landscape-level modeling, but we still have to go in and ground-truth what we THINK is there and then mark accordingly. LIDAR and airphotos and all that are great for planning, but they're never better than just snapshots in time, and always in the past, no matter how recent.



Tendency here is that more and more of the ground-level responsibility is given to the workers. I hear a big forest company is currently hiring economists for managing the forest operations... I don't really mind. The mindset of my countrymen has always been that the workers will know best how a job should be done, that the bosses and officers and other executives are there just to make things more difficult. Yes, there is nowadays a new profession too, a "Jack-Forester", who's responsible of field planning and operations and does cutting too. That's one of my options in the (near) future as I'll wear out and can't keep up the pace no more.


----------



## madhatte

Off the "injured" list as of about an hour ago! Wrist is still tender, and doesn't bend quite right, and my whole arm kind of weak, but everything's there and works pretty well. Glad to have that more-or-less over with.


----------



## paccity

madhatte said:


> Off the "injured" list as of about an hour ago! Wrist is still tender, and doesn't bend quite right, and my whole arm kind of weak, but everything's there and works pretty well. Glad to have that more-or-less over with.



glad to hear it. are you doing any physical theripy? i know when i blew mine up and they took most of the metal out it took a lott of time to get it working . still don't work rite but i live with it.


----------



## madhatte

Pretty sure this plate is staying put -- the docs are pleased by the way the bone is growing around it. The therapy is minimalist; mostly just stretching to regain range-of-motion. I'd say I'm about 50% of the way there. Won't be doing push-ups for awhile still, tho.


----------



## Metals406

madhatte said:


> Pretty sure this plate is staying put -- the docs are pleased by the way the bone is growing around it. The therapy is minimalist; mostly just stretching to regain range-of-motion. I'd say I'm about 50% of the way there. Won't be doing push-ups for awhile still, tho.



When my old man severed his tendons in his wrist, he used to sit and watch TV and squeeze a handball (or tennis ball) to regain his strength in the hand. Worked pretty good too.

Glad to hear your healing up Rasputin! :evilgrin:


----------



## forestryworks

Metals406 said:


> When my old man severed his tendons in his wrist, he used to sit and watch TV and squeeze a handball (or tennis ball) to regain his strength in the hand. Worked pretty good too.
> 
> Glad to hear your healing up Rasputin! :evilgrin:


----------



## Sport Faller

forestryworks said:


>



I'm guessing Russian imperial stout tastes a lot like that guy's beard sweat


----------



## RandyMac

I have had various parts of me rearranged, I found that when you can move it, keep at it.


----------



## forestryworks

bigskyjake said:


> I'm guessing Russian imperial stout tastes a lot like that guy's beard sweat



It'll put some hair on yo chest!


----------



## madhatte

Old Rasputin is some tasty stuff, no joke.



RandyMac said:


> I have had various parts of me rearranged, I found that when you can move it, keep at it.



'S like ol' whatsisname's advice in that one movie, regarding downhill skiing: "Go that way, really fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!"


----------



## Sport Faller

forestryworks said:


> It'll put some hair on yo chest!



Uhhh, well, I'm set. ####, I could give about half of it away in The Christmas Giving Thread and still look like Robin Williams


----------



## bitzer

Hey Madhatte, I didn't even know you were messed up. I hope you heal up quickly. 

That beer isn't too bad either. I'm already set on the hair myself. I was built for winter lets say.


----------



## NORMZILLA44

Whiskey is a good all around pain killer. And just plain good! Madhatte hope you heal up soon brother!


----------



## madhatte

Thanks, all. I'm most of the way there. The first month was the worst; it's all downhill from here.


----------



## slowp

madhatte said:


> Thanks, all. I'm most of the way there. The first month was the worst; it's all downhill from here.



Planning on snowboarding? :smile2:


----------



## madhatte

Funny, the Occupational Health nurse asked the same question. I told her, "Naw, not today".


----------



## OregonSawyer

Figured I'd just throw these in here... I guess you'll just have to imagine these timbers falling. :hmm3grin2orange:

So we had a bunch of bigger, long logs that had been over in the yard for too long and needed to get sawn up before the sap rot got too bad. The plan was just to cut as big of a free of heart timber (side cut) possible to store in order to fill potential orders in the future. I think most people who have spent a little time in sawmills can appreciate the size and length of these.

The two timbers on the top are 52 feet long. Second from the top is a 10x20 52'.















This is 40' and keep in mind all of these are side cuts. I think there is actually a couple pieces of 16x20-24" 40' somewhere in those piles.


----------



## lfnh

Nice pics. Those are some big timbers.
What's the maximum diameter capacity of the head rig ?
Any chance of getting some pics of it ?

Thanks for sharing!


----------



## forestryworks

Those are some finger smushers for sure! :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## OregonSawyer

lfnh said:


> Nice pics. Those are some big timbers.
> What's the maximum diameter capacity of the head rig ?
> Any chance of getting some pics of it ?
> 
> Thanks for sharing!



60" but in reality you can weasel a bigger log strategically under the saw guide with a little creativity.

The knees on the carriage are a little over 4' tall, to give some reference.


----------



## bitzer

Got out of the woods early today. Blew up my bar tip on the first saw, then after the long walk back down the hill to the truck for the next saw I dulled my chains on the same tree. That and the farther I worked up the hill the harder the wind blew. Still too muddy to skid.

Anyway, this was when things were still going good. The Ash in the background was cut up for the next log to come out. There were 3 logs bucked out of that one already and the way the top was hung on a bent over maple it was going to slide back towards me when it was bucked. The two standing ash in the foreground were kind of tucked in behind the bigger maple to the left. There was only one way for them to go and I figured I could buck what I had left in the background. In order to get the top kicked around the maple I needed the butt to slip off the stump of the first one to the left, hence the slanted stump. Well that worked, but between the two ash I couldn't buck the one in the back. Apparantly I left too heavy of a coupling. Not enough juice. I did manage to kill that small maple which made that buck a little easier. I also bunched em up decent though which helps for pick up! I try to lay everything up and down the hill which makes it a lot easier to pick up with the forwarder.

















View attachment 211646
View attachment 211647
View attachment 211648


----------



## Rounder

Orange thingy is a boom. Too close. Tough cutting, fast skidding. I'm doing too nice of a job. They might be due for a good ####ing.

View attachment 211789


That's your timber guy

View attachment 211790


Somebody on here asked me to describe an excaline. Not very good at that, so here is one.

View attachment 211791


Hope you all had a good, safe week - Sam


----------



## Sport Faller

mtsamloggit said:


> Orange thingy is a boom. Too close. Tough cutting, fast skidding. I'm doing too nice of a job. They might be due for a good ####ing.
> 
> View attachment 211789
> 
> 
> That's your timber guy
> 
> View attachment 211790
> 
> 
> Somebody on here asked me to describe an excaline. Not very good at that, so here is one.
> 
> View attachment 211791
> 
> 
> Hope you all had a good, safe week - Sam



Nice pics Sammy, gots to love the doug fir where every other one has a big assed pistol butt, that excaline almost looks like a dredge crane


----------



## hammerlogging

Here's a sketchy few I got a couple of cell phone pics of: This shows a 14" locust busted about 8-10" off the ground and leaning uphill at a 45 degree into a nice slick red oak, maybe about 28" stump. Its really hung in there with lots of top extending past the limb its leaning on. The red oak is leaning right toward the locust, downhill at a 30 degree angle. This stand has lots of dead locust, its a real danger, even the crap lying on the ground since when a butt hits and slides it can kick that dead wood up and around. ANyhow, after a moment of deliberation, I decide to dump the red oak at a 30 the other way, hoping it takes the locust with it. I faced, bored, and released, with my running shoes double checked. Nothing moved, I creeped back into position and tapped a wedge, nothing. So I went up the hill and smashed a 20" basswood into the whole mess and here I am to talk about it.
View attachment 211868

View attachment 211869

View attachment 211870

View attachment 211871

Some locust is more sketchy than others- like since this one had all this topwood extending past, and was leaning uphill, and so forth. Often you can just dump the tree its in and they go together, rather reliably. Maybe all the recent face shots just made me more careful, thats what wake-up calls are for anyhow.

And, another nice poplar butt.

View attachment 211872


And, i went 2 days without getting busted in the face again so I guess I am on a roll!

Happy weekend everyone.

Yeah, gullets suck.


----------



## floyd

Educate me. Would that xcacline be called an Idaho jammer a little further west?


----------



## slowp

floyd said:


> Educate me. Would that xcacline be called an Idaho jammer a little further west?



That's what I'm thinking.


----------



## Rounder

Educate me. Would that xcacline be called an Idaho jammer a little further west?[/QUOTE]

View attachment 211937


It 's the guts out of a LS-98 Link-Belt Yarder mounted atop an excavator, with the skid boom mounted to the excavator boom. Same capability as the Link - Belt, can yard out to about 1400'.


----------



## Metals406

mtsamloggit said:


> It 's the guts out of a LS-98 Link-Belt Yarder mounted atop an excavator, with the skid boom mounted to the excavator boom. Same capability as the Link - Belt, can yard out to about 1400'.









Dang that brings back memories. . . I hooked under an almost identical setup.

Sam, I thought Cody was grinding all your chain for ya? Are you touching them up with a square file by hand?


----------



## Rounder

Nah, I just hand file my chain. I pretty much never cut anything other than wood anyhow....just that good....:jester:


----------



## Sport Faller

mtsamloggit said:


> Nah, I just hand file my chain. I pretty much never cut anything other than wood anyhow....just that good....:jester:



slappin the file to em once a week wether they need it or not, huh


----------



## bitzer

hammerlogging said:


> Here's a sketchy few I got a couple of cell phone pics of: This shows a 14" locust busted about 8-10" off the ground and leaning uphill at a 45 degree into a nice slick red oak, maybe about 28" stump. Its really hung in there with lots of top extending past the limb its leaning on. The red oak is leaning right toward the locust, downhill at a 30 degree angle. This stand has lots of dead locust, its a real danger, even the crap lying on the ground since when a butt hits and slides it can kick that dead wood up and around. ANyhow, after a moment of deliberation, I decide to dump the red oak at a 30 the other way, hoping it takes the locust with it. I faced, bored, and released, with my running shoes double checked. Nothing moved, I creeped back into position and tapped a wedge, nothing. So I went up the hill and smashed a 20" basswood into the whole mess and here I am to talk about it.
> View attachment 211868
> 
> View attachment 211869
> 
> View attachment 211870
> 
> View attachment 211871
> 
> Some locust is more sketchy than others- like since this one had all this topwood extending past, and was leaning uphill, and so forth. Often you can just dump the tree its in and they go together, rather reliably. Maybe all the recent face shots just made me more careful, thats what wake-up calls are for anyhow.
> 
> And, another nice poplar butt.
> 
> View attachment 211872
> 
> 
> And, i went 2 days without getting busted in the face again so I guess I am on a roll!
> 
> Happy weekend everyone.
> 
> Yeah, gullets suck.



Nice pics Hammer! Don't you just love those counter-active forces type bull#### situations? Unless you are there its always hard to say what to do. I may have gone after cutting the locust off of the stump first. I love the "now wtf," feeling you get when you think you've got everything right and nothing moves. I had a couple of maples like that not too long ago, except the one hung also had the top busted out and dangling over the stump of the standing one. Hammerin the mess with another tree is the most fun when you can. The crashing that is, not the clean up. I cut alot of dead elm around here, which usually holds together pretty decent. Standing dead ash can be a mess and #### butternut all around. It doesn't like to cooperate with any of my dutchmans and generally has a very fragile, nearly dead top. I love it when I walk up to a marked tree and its already got a windfall teepee in it. Especially when you know the teepee was there before the tree was marked. Nice poplar man! Keep em coming!


----------



## bitzer

Hey Sam, nice pics!

What is the average size of timber you're cutting there? Select? 

Unless I had a grinder I don't think I could run square ground. Filing sounds like a pain in the ass, although I've never done it.


----------



## Metals406

bitzer said:


> Hey Sam, nice pics!
> 
> What is the average size of timber you're cutting there? Select?
> 
> Unless I had a grinder I don't think I could run square ground. Filing sounds like a pain in the ass, although I've never done it.



It's not bad once you learn it, and the benefits outweigh the negs.


----------



## Rounder

bitzer said:


> Hey Sam, nice pics!
> 
> What is the average size of timber you're cutting there? Select?
> 
> Unless I had a grinder I don't think I could run square ground. Filing sounds like a pain in the ass, although I've never done it.



Kind of runs the gammut. Small lodgepole to nicer fir up to maybe 32". Nothing special. Loving the 460 with the light bar. Perfect for every tree.
I don't mind hand chisel filing, I just hate fooling with gullets.


----------



## RandyMac

yeah the gullets, do them as you go along, so's they ain't such a chore later. Useta bevel them at tie strap level.


----------



## Sport Faller

Metals406 said:


> It's not bad once you learn it, and the benefits outweigh the negs.



Wait, so you're saying that I could just buy a bunch of square ground chains and whenever I rock the #### outta em I can just bring em to your house and drop em off for a later pick up date

I think that's what I'm pickin up here :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Metals406

bigskyjake said:


> Wait, so you're saying that I could just buy a bunch of square ground chains and whenever I rock the #### outta em I can just bring em to your house and drop em off for a later pick up date
> 
> I think that's what I'm pickin up here :hmm3grin2orange:



If you do that, I'm setting up my Simington and you can chip in for wheels. 

BTW, Tom has a square grinder in the back room (by the barshop). . . Not sure what he'd charge ya to grind chain? You'll hate square though, it cuts waaaay too fast.


----------



## mdavlee

Nate you still don't have the simington setup? You just need to give it to me for christmas if you're not going to use it.:msp_thumbup:

I got a razor sharp on the way to the house right now anyway. I should be back to grinding square by next weekend. I take the gullets way back so the next few sharpenings I don't have to touch them. If you set up the grinder with a real wide side plate you won't have much gullet left to file out.


----------



## Metals406

mdavlee said:


> Nate you still don't have the simington setup? You just need to give it to me for christmas if you're not going to use it.:msp_thumbup:
> 
> I got a razor sharp on the way to the house right now anyway. I should be back to grinding square by next weekend. I take the gullets way back so the next few sharpenings I don't have to touch them. If you set up the grinder with a real wide side plate you won't have much gullet left to file out.



I'm going to set it up. . . But I want to become a master with the hand file before I do. I firmly believe I can, or will, be able to hand file a sharper chain than a grinder can produce.

Kind'a a John Henry thing with me I guess. :biggrinbounce2:


----------



## Sport Faller

Metals406 said:


> If you do that, I'm setting up my Simington and you can chip in for wheels.
> 
> BTW, Tom has a square grinder in the back room (by the barshop). . . Not sure what he'd charge ya to grind chain? You'll hate square though, it cuts waaaay too fast.



How much be a wheel for Simington of whence ye speaketh

Does it cut a whole bunch faster than a round filed?


----------



## Metals406

Stephen wants me to file him some GTG chain. . . He said he wants to annihilate the competition. LOL

It'd be faster to grind it and then work it by hand I'm sure. . . But I'm a sharpening freak. I sharpen all of my buddies knives, and almost every cutting tool I own you can shave with. Hell, I shave with a straight razor, and if it isn't HHT sharp, you'll slice the hell out'a your face, and it's uncomfortable to use.

My wife says it's a sickness! Hahahaha

I'll sit and watch TV and sharpen things. . . She says all she hears is, "Shhhht. . . Shhhht. . . Shhht" as I make passes on the stone. :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:


----------



## Sport Faller

Metals406 said:


> Stephen wants me to file him some GTG chain. . . He said he wants to annihilate the competition. LOL
> 
> It'd be faster to grind it and then work it by hand I'm sure. . . But I'm a sharpening freak. I sharpen all of my buddies knives, and almost every cutting tool I own you can shave with. * Hell, I shave with a straight razor, and if it isn't HHT sharp, you'll slice the hell out'a your face, and it's uncomfortable to use.*
> My wife says it's a sickness! Hahahaha
> 
> I'll sit and watch TV and sharpen things. . . She says all she hears is, "Shhhht. . . Shhhht. . . Shhht" as I make passes on the stone. :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:



Whoa wait what? how did this not come up before?
What strop setup you running?

here's my regular stable, a couple are dur for a trip to the Nortons
Clauss, Engstrom, Hi-Tone, Watervelle, Torrey, and a Simon


----------



## mdavlee

Metals406 said:


> I'm going to set it up. . . But I want to become a master with the hand file before I do. I firmly believe I can, or will, be able to hand file a sharper chain than a grinder can produce.
> 
> Kind'a a John Henry thing with me I guess. :biggrinbounce2:



I have no doubt you can file a sharper chain than a grinder. It's not that hard to do but a grinder is consistent and doesn't end up with sore fingers. Between welding a lot and then filing chains and other repetitive tasks filing square has started to get painful so I'm going to grind for work chains and just file play chains every now and then. Grinding them back then working them over by hand is much easier. I've done a few and the grinder saves a ton of time. A round grinder would work too but it takes more effort to get it back to a nice square corner. The blue ceramic wheel is spendy but my favorite.


----------



## coastalfaller

I use the grinder for taking down the gullets too. I usually just use my hand to bring it to the stone, yes, I know, not very scientific or precise, but it's quick! You can put your chain on the opposite side carriage as you would for grinding the tooth and set up the stops to take out the gullet that way too. The rakers...... now that's the tedious part!


----------



## coastalfaller

mdavlee said:


> I have no doubt you can file a sharper chain than a grinder. It's not that hard to do but a grinder is consistent and doesn't end up with sore fingers. Between welding a lot and then filing chains and other repetitive tasks filing square has started to get painful so I'm going to grind for work chains and just file play chains every now and then. Grinding them back then working them over by hand is much easier. I've done a few and the grinder saves a ton of time. A round grinder would work too but it takes more effort to get it back to a nice square corner. The blue ceramic wheel is spendy but my favorite.



Yep, not to mention with the grinder you get everything equal, on both sides. Well, except for my gullet grinding! lol Bars and chain last longer too.


----------



## Metals406

bigskyjake said:


> How much be a wheel for Simington of whence ye speaketh
> 
> Does it cut a whole bunch faster than a round filed?



Yes, it cuts much faster than round, but is more susceptible to dulling if'n you aren't careful. I kept track a couple years ago, and I got 3 cord felled and bucked before I had to refile the chain. I didn't rock-out, but did cut skidded logs. There are also techniques for cutting dirty logs too, which involves back-barring to push the dirt away.



bigskyjake said:


> Whoa wait what? how did this not come up before?
> What strop setup you running?
> 
> here's my regular stable, a couple are dur for a trip to the Nortons
> Clauss, Engstrom, Hi-Tone, Watervelle, Torrey, and a Simon



Jake, I use a Chinese 12k stone for honing, and a leather strop with Mothers mag and aluminum polish on it for stropping; then I'll finish on a piece of cardboard.

I've never felt the urge to spend a kings ransom on a bunch of sharpening products.

I shave with my dad's antique 'Shumate's Barber'. . . I reckon it's 100 years old or better.


----------



## Metals406

coastalfaller said:


> Yep, not to mention with the grinder you get everything equal, on both sides. Well, except for my gullet grinding! lol Bars and chain last longer too.



That's my ultimate goal in the end, to have identical teeth on both sides. Once I'm there, I'll probably use the grinder.

I want to be able to train my son's on filing, and fall back on it if'n I don't have a grinder or the money for wheels.

I really don't find sharpening that tedious. . . Again, it's probably my sharpening fetish at work. :biggrin:


----------



## Sport Faller

Metals406 said:


> Yes, it cuts much faster than round, but is more susceptible to dulling if'n you aren't careful. I kept track a couple years ago, and I got 3 cord felled and bucked before I had to refile the chain. I didn't rock-out, but did cut skidded logs. There are also techniques for cutting dirty logs too, which involves back-barring to push the dirt away.
> 
> 
> 
> Jake, I use a Chinese 12k stone for honing, and a leather strop with Mothers mag and aluminum polish on it for stropping; then I'll finish on a piece of cardboard.
> 
> I've never felt the urge to spend a kings ransom on a bunch of sharpening products.
> 
> I shave with my dad's antique 'Shumate's Barber'. . . I reckon it's 100 years old or better.



Oh nice, I usually get about a cord out of a chain before it's high time for filing

The Chinese 12k waterstones are nice for finishing, I use the Norton 2k, 4k, 8k


----------



## coastalfaller

Metals406 said:


> That's my ultimate goal in the end, to have identical teeth on both sides. Once I'm there, I'll probably use the grinder.
> 
> I want to be able to train my son's on filing, and fall back on it if'n I don't have a grinder or the money for wheels.
> 
> I really don't find sharpening that tedious. . . Again, it's probably my sharpening fetish at work. :biggrin:



Yep, that's great you're teaching your sons.....I have to admit my hand filing leaves alot to be desired now! It's been ALOOOOOONG time since I really handfiled, tried it a year ago or so, just to see. YIKES is all I can say about that!!!!!


----------



## Metals406

coastalfaller said:


> Yep, that's great you're teaching your sons.....I have to admit my hand filing leaves alot to be desired now! It's been ALOOOOOONG time since I really handfiled, tried it a year ago or so, just to see. YIKES is all I can say about that!!!!!



Yup, use it or loose it (at least that's what I tell the wife) HA! :biggrin::biggrin:

The oldtimer that first showed me square filing was fast as hell at it. . . Almost too fast. I had to have him slow down, and I still didn't get the angles.

He sold me a couple files, and off to the races I went. I went home a ruined a couple chains, got pissed, and put it away for about 5 years. 

Tell ya what Jake, you supply me with some files from SaveEdge, and I'll sharpen your chains all day long. . . I want the seat-time to improve and get faster. Then you ain't filing in the woods, you can just swap chains.


----------



## Sport Faller

Metals406 said:


> Yup, use it or loose it (at least that's what I tell the wife) HA! :biggrin::biggrin:
> 
> The oldtimer that first showed me square filing was fast as hell at it. . . Almost too fast. I had to have him slow down, and I still didn't get the angles.
> 
> He sold me a couple files, and off to the races I went. I went home a ruined a couple chains, got pissed, and put it away for about 5 years.
> 
> Tell ya what Jake, you supply me with some files from SaveEdge, and I'll sharpen your chains all day long. . . I want the seat-time to improve and get faster. Then you ain't filing in the woods, you can just swap chains.



I'll get some, but.... ya gotta show me how to square file too


----------



## Metals406

bigskyjake said:


> I'll get some, but.... ya gotta show me how to square file too



No problem


----------



## mdavlee

The cost of those files is what got me wanting to get a grinder. It took me about 20 chains to get pretty decent at keeping stuff even. It was over a $100 in files to learn.


----------



## Metals406

mdavlee said:


> The cost of those files is what got me wanting to get a grinder. It took me about 20 chains to get pretty decent at keeping stuff even. It was over a $100 in files to learn.



No doubt! Them files are expensive, cheapest I've found are the SaveEdge (not quality but cost).

You'll give over $10 at the local Stihl shop for one file.

The best way would be to buy out a stockpile at an auction or fire-sale or the like.

For about 20-40 files, a guy can own a used grinder.


----------



## mdavlee

Yeah sometimes you can get one for under $200.:cool2: I bought a lot of files and the first chain I sharpened chipped the corner on the pferd file the first sharpening on the chain. I'm glad I only bought 2 of them to try at the time. Both ended up the same and were only usefuel for little tiny short strokes or raker duty. I bought a dozen save edge last time and I think they were $85 or so. The blue ceramic wheel is about $35 a piece but I like them better than the salmon and white. They will hold the corner better and not need dressing as much. I've really been wanting a pro sharp but they don't come up for sale much.


----------



## Metals406

I paid $230 for my Simington shipped. . . But the boner just threw it in a box with no padding, so it broke the table. . . It also bent a lot of the screws.

It needs work now, but was still a good deal.


----------



## Rounder

Yep, cost of double bevel files vs. just buying a grinder and being done with it has been eating at me. Sick of spending money to go to work though!


----------



## mdavlee

There's a nice simington on ebay right now. I watched a nice looking pro sharp just sell on there for $1k. I've wanted one since a swing arm wouldn't let me do what I was wanting as far as angles for some play chains. 

I know what you mean about spending money to work. Most of the time it costs me a $1k before I get a paycheck when I start at a new location. The trip to california was about $1800 before I got another check.


----------



## Metals406

mtsamloggit said:


> Yep, cost of double bevel files vs. just buying a grinder and being done with it has been eating at me. Sick of spending money to go to work though!



It's the same story with a fab shop Sam. . . Lots of work out there that makes a guy spend money to earn a little back.


----------



## Sport Faller

Metals406 said:


> It's the same story with a fab shop Sam. . . Lots of work out there that makes a guy spend money to earn a little back.



yep, you gotta toss out the T-bone you've got now just so you can get a hotdog to eat later. The funny thing is, you always take the T-bone for granted and whoop and holler when you get ahold of the hotdog


----------



## Rounder

Yep, this year 4 saws, a truck, truck repairs, fuel, saw shop bills, clothes, boots.......no grinder for a while, lol.


----------



## Metals406

bigskyjake said:


> yep, you gotta toss out the T-bone you've got now just so you can get a hotdog to eat later. The funny thing is, you always take the T-bone for granted and whoop and holler when you get ahold of the hotdog



:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:

Great analogy Jake!


----------



## Metals406

mtsamloggit said:


> Yep, this year 4 saws, a truck, truck repairs, fuel, saw shop bills, clothes, boots.......no grinder for a while, lol.



Sucks huh boss! I dropped 15k on equipment before I could even open up a shop, then I had $1500 in rent due the first month, plus electric and other payments.

It'll kill ya quick. . . Sometimes packing a lunchbox to work is a better way to make a living.


----------



## Sport Faller

Metals406 said:


> :hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> Great analogy Jake!



Thanks Mang, I got to thinking though, if I use it in the future I think I'm gonna re-word the whole "whoop and holler when you get ahold of a hotdog" bit :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## mdavlee

Nate I work for a company and it still costs me out the wazoo to just get to work and a place to stay. I'd hate to say what I've spent this year on out of town expenses but I'm guessing $15-20k. I'll know in a few more weeks when I set down and itemize for tax time


----------



## Metals406

mdavlee said:


> Nate I work for a company and it still costs me out the wazoo to just get to work and a place to stay. I'd hate to say what I've spent this year on out of town expenses but I'm guessing $15-20k. I'll know in a few more weeks when I set down and itemize for tax time



That seems odd to me, that unless you're subbing to them, they don't cover all that?? What are you doing, no need to drop names if it's hush hush.


----------



## mdavlee

We get per diem and some travel pay but it still costs a lot to travel up to 2200 miles one way for work and stay in a decent place and eat. My family has been traveling a lot with me this year also so it adds to the expense out of town but knocks down the bills at home. I'm just a pipe welder working in nuclear and other power plants. We do a lot of alloy and high pressure steam piping mostly. Probably made around 8-900 x ray welds this year and some places 2 gets you run off.


----------



## Gologit

mtsamloggit said:


> Yep, this year 4 saws, a truck, truck repairs, fuel, saw shop bills, clothes, boots.......no grinder for a while, lol.



Sounds familiar to me. There's a lot of money in logging...but it sure gets spread around.


----------



## Metals406

mdavlee said:


> We get per diem and some travel pay but it still costs a lot to travel up to 2200 miles one way for work and stay in a decent place and eat. My family has been traveling a lot with me this year also so it adds to the expense out of town but knocks down the bills at home. I'm just a pipe welder working in nuclear and other power plants. We do a lot of alloy and high pressure steam piping mostly. Probably made around 8-900 x ray welds this year and some places 2 gets you run off.





Sweet! I thought about getting into that, but like ya say, you have to pass a lot of welds or they tell ya to tramp.

My buddies dad was inspecting Nuke welds for a long time, which required about the same amount of travel.

So what's your norm, 6011 root with 7018 hot and cover? Or are you fellas pushing wire these days?


----------



## mdavlee

Tig roots and then whatever stick filler for the material we're working on. We do a lot of chrome piping that's 1-5" thick. Some is done with orbital tig machines feeding .035" ran with remote. The alloy piping we did in california was welded with ERNicRmo-3 and 14 filler. Some real trashy running stuff. Made around 800 welds with 3 repairs in 4 months there. It's been 5 years or so since I used a 6010 on a pipe weld.


----------



## Rounder

Gologit said:


> Sounds familiar to me. There's a lot of money in logging...but it sure gets spread around.



Lol, yep. Everybody always #####es about how much money we make, and the short days. They don't see the "behind the scenes". Lots of time spent in the shop or on tailgate in front of the motel getting everything ready to do it all over again.

Being a timber faller must be the result of some yet undiscovered mental disorder, cuz I don't know why any sane, logical thinking person would ever do it! I try not to put too much thought into it........and I just keep doing it......lol


----------



## RandyMac

Short days? I seem to remember the whole process taking 10 to 12 hours.


----------



## hammerlogging

workin' on it man.


----------



## Rounder

RandyMac said:


> Short days? I seem to remember the whole process taking 10 to 12 hours.



7 on the saw......then the driving, chaining up, getting around the loader, getting around the stroker, hiking in, hiking out....................


----------



## bitzer

Well my arm has been twisted. After the holidays (gotta fill out under the tree first for the kids and maybe a couple of odds and ends for me from santa) I'll have to order up some square ground chain and files from the saw shop. I've never even seen it in person, its time. 


Spending money has become a habit with me.


----------



## Metals406

bitzer said:


> Well my arm has been twisted. After the holidays (gotta fill out under the tree first for the kids and maybe a couple of odds and ends for me from santa) I'll have to order up some square ground chain and files from the saw shop. I've never even seen it in person, its time.
> 
> 
> Spending money has become a habit with me.



Bitz, don't get frustrated with it at first, stick with it.

If'n ya want, you can buy some chain from my local place, and I'll sharpen up a couple loops for ya while your getting the hang of it. . . That way, ya have an idea whether or not you want to fiddle with it, and it'll also let ya know how they cut.

Let me know.

Are you running Stihl or JGX?


----------



## Metals406

mtsamloggit said:


> 7 on the saw......then the driving, chaining up, getting around the loader, getting around the stroker, hiking in, hiking out....................



Oh yeah, the round trip routinely was 5 hours. Out the door and in the crummy by 3am. . . Drive to the site and be there around 5:30, sit in the truck for a few, and over the hill by 6 sharp.

Logging hours ain't for pussies. Hell, logging all together ain't for pussies!! 

I often sit and think about how soft I am not working in the woods. . . The first week back would damn near kill my jello ass! Hahahaha


----------



## bitzer

Metals406 said:


> Bitz, don't get frustrated with it at first, stick with it.
> 
> If'n ya want, you can buy some chain from my local place, and I'll sharpen up a couple loops for ya while your getting the hang of it. . . That way, ya have an idea whether or not you want to fiddle with it, and it'll also let ya know how they cut.
> 
> Let me know.
> 
> Are you running Stihl or JGX?



Hey thanks, I appreciate the offer! I'm running both Stihl and Oregon right now. I generally lean toward the Stihl chain. It seems to sharpen better for me. Might just be me though. I've always wanted to run square and I think its about time. I'm sure its like anything else. It takes a little time, but after a while you get the hang of it. I tell ya what, some days my saw can not keep up with me and it drives me nuts. Square might help!


----------



## Metals406

bitzer said:


> Hey thanks, I appreciate the offer! I'm running both Stihl and Oregon right now. I generally lean toward the Stihl chain. It seems to sharpen better for me. Might just be me though. I've always wanted to run square and I think its about time. I'm sure its like anything else. It takes a little time, but after a while you get the hang of it. I tell ya what, some days my saw can not keep up with me and it drives me nuts. Square might help!



What's your DL count, and I'll call tomorrow and see what two loops of square will run. . . I'm sure shipping will be about 7 bucks for two loops (I have some padded flat rate envelopes coming in).

Do you run skip or full-comp? You'll definitely like skip for square -- less teeth to sharpen. 

I'll also get a price on round too, and go with the cheaper one, I convert round to square all the time.


----------



## Gologit

mtsamloggit said:


> Being a timber faller must be the result of some yet undiscovered mental disorder, cuz I don't know why any sane, logical thinking person would ever do it! I try not to put too much thought into it........and I just keep doing it......lol



Yup. The only cure for it is age...and even then it never really goes away. Speaking of which...time to head out.

You guys be safe this week.


----------



## mdavlee

Filing stihl square is a lot more frustrating to me. The chain is a lot harder than oregon and is harder on files. With the grinder stihl is fine. I would stick with oregon to learn on. Madsens is hard to beat on the 2 loop prices. I don't like their files. The corners on the ones I got were kinda round. The save edge are about the best value and quality.


----------



## RandyMac

I lucked out, started the square file on 9/16" chain.


----------



## Metals406

Bitz, Jake PM'd me last night and said the chain was a dollar per bar inch for the first one, and half-off for the second one. . . Didn't matter if it was skip, chisel, full-comp, round, or square. That was also for Stihl or Oregon -- so now you can figure your cost pretty easy.

I agree that the Oregon is more user friendly to file square. . . But I'll do either.


----------



## mdavlee

I don't mind filing oregon as much as stihl. I know I filed a 32" semi skip stihl and it was rough on the file. I filed a 30" full comp oregon in less time. I can't wait to get the grinder set up sl all I have to file is rakers and gullets.


----------



## Metals406

mdavlee said:


> I don't mind filing oregon as much as stihl. I know I filed a 32" semi skip stihl and it was rough on the file. I filed a 30" full comp oregon in less time. I can't wait to get the grinder set up sl all I have to file is rakers and gullets.



Save Edge has 1/8" round files. . . I'm gonna get a dozen to use on gullet work. I think they'd work even better than 5/32".

I've used Oregon LGX and JGX for a long time, and like it. Stihl does seem to be harder on files, but I like the chain too. . . A little give and take going on there.


----------



## mdavlee

I hadn't noticed the 1/8" files. I'll have to pick up some to do gullets with. I decided I wasn't going to square file the stihl. It wrecked 2 files on that one chain. I hate the first sharpening on any of those chains. It seems the file isn't cutting the same way a grinder wheel does.


----------



## dave k

It's nice to have a choice, all we get is full or semi and all full comp !


----------



## Metals406

dave k said:


> It's nice to have a choice, all we get is full or semi and all full comp !



Tell your dealers you want to enter the 21st century, and get more options on chain.


----------



## Metals406

mdavlee said:


> I hadn't noticed the 1/8" files. I'll have to pick up some to do gullets with. I decided I wasn't going to square file the stihl. It wrecked 2 files on that one chain. I hate the first sharpening on any of those chains. It seems the file isn't cutting the same way a grinder wheel does.



The maintenance strokes rule, the initial conversion or fixing dinged chain. . . Not so much. Wrecking $16-$20 worth of files on one chain would get my ire up for sure.

I need to get my grinder up and going. . . Got a lot on my plate though.


----------



## mdavlee

Dave there's all kinds of chain available over here. If you want something let me know and I can add it to my order and then ship it to you. I think I still have your address. I'm getting ready to buy another roll soon. I'm down to maybe enough to spin a 30" loop up.


----------



## dave k

Thanks and I might just take you up on that ! 
It's not the dealers it's the importers, the Stihl guys won't bring in the ES bars any more and I was told there was no such thing as a Light Bar....As for the Husky guys they try a bit harder but Im on week 13 waiting for a 36" Oregon PM bar ( same importers ) and after two 36" hard nose bars appeared, today a Power Match showed up but 404. not 3/8 !!!!


----------



## mdavlee

Yeah dave that does suck. I guess I would resort to importing stuff myself.


----------



## hammerlogging

coastalfaller said:


> I use the grinder for taking down the gullets too. I usually just use my hand to bring it to the stone, yes, I know, not very scientific or precise, but it's quick! You can put your chain on the opposite side carriage as you would for grinding the tooth and set up the stops to take out the gullet that way too. The rakers...... now that's the tedious part!



You just saved me atleast a 30 minutes per week with this one, that adds up nicely!


----------



## bitzer

Metals406 said:


> Bitz, Jake PM'd me last night and said the chain was a dollar per bar inch for the first one, and half-off for the second one. . . Didn't matter if it was skip, chisel, full-comp, round, or square. That was also for Stihl or Oregon -- so now you can figure your cost pretty easy.
> 
> I agree that the Oregon is more user friendly to file square. . . But I'll do either.



Thats about what it is for chain around here, but its a buck an inch plus 2. No breaks on the extra loops either. I may have to take you up on some of that action! When the ground freezes up that is. No paycheck last week, but hopefully I can squeak one out this week. Winter has not stopped in here full time yet. Ground too soft to skid again. I just cut all day. Thanks again for the offer! I will let you know.


----------



## coastalfaller

hammerlogging said:


> You just saved me atleast a 30 minutes per week with this one, that adds up nicely!



Glad to help, Joe! Merry Christmas to you and yours!


----------



## dave k

Was up in the North of the country well to be exact another country ! in the UK part of Ireland mopping up after the harvesters had nearly done. We had the large road side shelter trees and any others to big for the harvesters. It's great what a good forwarder driver and a large steel rope can do to make sure I didn't get a large bill from the telecom company as the areas main phone lines were up against the road side stuff. The last pic is looking back at where we started on the road side. Also got another gallon through my new Simonized 372 XPG so all in all a good day.


----------



## dave k

Thanks for all the "likes" and yes John it is great looking ! the Mourne Mountains are pretty dramatic on a misty day ! I did a couple of vids on my youtube, TreeworksDK, if you want a laugh ! By the way John I'm still getting great use out of that Windsor bar although the nose is now a little rough sounding !

Im just sat here in the jeep on the way back down to the shed since I can't sleep so may as well get saws worked on and just listening to the Pouges"Fairytale of New York" so all of you have a great and safe holiday, carry on posting all the good stuff !!


----------



## Rounder

Thanks for sharing the pics Dave. In the last pic, standing timber, are those dead coniferous trees, or some sort of decidous trees? Or maybe your have Larch??


----------



## Metals406

mtsamloggit said:


> Thanks for sharing the pics Dave. In the last pic, standing timber, are those dead coniferous trees, or some sort of decidous trees? Or maybe your have Larch??



I was thinking Larch too Sam, but I forgot to ask. If it is Larch, it's a lot more like ours than the stuff back east.


----------



## Rounder

Yeah, tall and straight like Larch. Hey, Happy Holidays all! Hope you all had a good, safe week - Sam


----------



## Rounder

Hey Nate, almost forgot...got an x-mas gift for ya, you just have to get over to my neck of the canyon and pick them up in person......and drink a beer or two....or three....................you like Sachs I seem to remember......


----------



## bitzer

This was me screwing around yesterday. It didn't freeze over night for several days and then snow on top of it, so no skidding again yesterday. It froze nice and solid last night, down in the low teens. 

I apologize for the lack of sound at the beginning. My $30 special has had a rough life. Pissed me off too. Woulda been some good crashing. I crippled that maple limb hanging out over the lay to slow the ash down a little. Also there should be corks under the tree for me this year (you'll see what I mean). The last section the wind started rockin and I didn't like my escape route. Had to take 5 and brush out the other one. 

Merry Christmas everyone!

[video=youtube;Jh0pNHK3veM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Jh0pNHK3veM#![/video]


----------



## dave k

Yes Sam you are dead on they are larch we have a lot of them here. Bitzer Having spent a bit of time on my behind latley Im begining to think some caulks may be a good idea also !!
Got some good news yesterday, the brothers I was working with for the last couple of weeks have just landed a large contract, manily spruce, in our home County with plenty of oversize that the harvesters can't do so happy days for the new year.


----------



## Metals406

mtsamloggit said:


> Hey Nate, almost forgot...got an x-mas gift for ya, you just have to get over to my neck of the canyon and pick them up in person......and drink a beer or two....or three....................you like Sachs I seem to remember......



Sweet! Not sure when I can make it down that way though? :msp_unsure:

Keep it warm for me. 

Merry Christmas to you and the Mrs. Sam!


----------



## Rounder

Metals406 said:


> Sweet! Not sure when I can make it down that way though? :msp_unsure:
> 
> Keep it warm for me.
> 
> Merry Christmas to you and the Mrs. Sam!



Merry x-mas to you and yours also. Clearing the shop out and have a 117 and 133. Both in great shape, just need carbs gone through. All yours.

Dave, that's really interesting, I had no idea there were Larch over there. How big do they get?

-Sam


----------



## Metals406

dave k said:


> Yes Sam you are dead on they are larch we have a lot of them here. Bitzer Having spent a bit of time on my behind latley Im begining to think some caulks may be a good idea also !!
> Got some good news yesterday, the brothers I was working with for the last couple of weeks have just landed a large contract, manily spruce, in our home County with plenty of oversize that the harvesters can't do so happy days for the new year.



Merry Christmas Dave!

Yes, get some caulks -- you'll wonder why you haven't done it sooner. I wear leather caulks until the snow gets pretty deep, but most guys get winter caulks right out'a the gate though.

That's awesome you get to go cut more, that's some good news.


----------



## Metals406

mtsamloggit said:


> Merry x-mas to you and yours also. Clearing the shop out and have a 117 and 133. Both in great shape, just need carbs gone through. All yours.
> 
> Dave, that's really interesting, I had no idea there were Larch over there. How big do they get?
> 
> -Sam



Dude, that's awesome! I ported that 117 for Rod at Valley Welders -- man was that thing's a runner. It had a 24" bar with full-comp square, and you could stand on the PH.

Seems to me he was bucking some 4'-5' Black Cottonwood with it. 

You ever sell your 44?


----------



## Greystoke

Metals406 said:


> Dude, that's awesome! I ported that 117 for Rod at Valley Welders -- man was that thing's a runner. It had a 24" bar with full-comp square, and you could stand on the PH.
> 
> Seems to me he was bucking some 4'-5' Black Cottonwood with it.
> 
> You ever sell your 44?




No, he is gonna wait for me to buy it  

Unless my Cousin buys it first.


----------



## Metals406

tarzanstree said:


> No, he is gonna wait for me to buy it
> 
> Unless my Cousin buys it first.



Hey, Paw Paw was over here when you called yesterday, that's why I missed our call. . . Uncle Nater was finishing my 038 super, and then I was showing him how to square file.

We have us a new square believer. Hahahaha

Now, how in tarnation are you supposed to pay for that saw, if'n you ain't making a bunch of cool videos?


----------



## Greystoke

Metals406 said:


> Hey, Paw Paw was over here when you called yesterday, that's why I missed our call. . . Uncle Nater was finishing my 038 super, and then I was showing him how to square file.
> 
> We have us a new square believer. Hahahaha
> 
> Now, how in tarnation are you supposed to pay for that saw, if'n you ain't making a bunch of cool videos?



Patience...


Trying to convince momma that I need another powersaw....it's a tough job


----------



## Metals406

tarzanstree said:


> Patience...
> 
> 
> Trying to convince momma that I need another powersaw....it's a tough job



Well of course you need another saw!! Tell her she's just being silly. :biggrin:

Merry Christmas to you and the fam!!

Sure hope them boys get a purse tomorrow morning (mega hits on the Tube would ensue). :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Rounder

tarzanstree said:


> Patience...
> 
> 
> Trying to convince momma that I need another powersaw....it's a tough job



I thought you already had a saw or 10....

Nate I still have the 440. Haven't really been trying to sell it, but it's for sale.....One of those kind of deals. I don't think I've even started it since I bought the 46. It's just taking up space in the shop. I don't hang onto much that I don't use - Sam


----------



## Sport Faller

Metals406 said:


> Hey, Paw Paw was over here when you called yesterday, that's why I missed our call. . . Uncle Nater was finishing my 038 super, and then I was showing him how to square file.
> 
> We have us a new square believer. Hahahaha
> 
> Now, how in tarnation are you supposed to pay for that saw, if'n you ain't making a bunch of cool videos?



Hey, what's that impulse line look like, black subfloor adhesive like the fuel line?


----------



## dave k

We get them bigish 3' plus, I find they can be a bit two faced when you put them down if you know what I mean, when you expect them to hold they just want to fall and vicsa versa !! 

About caulks Sam ( slamm ) got a pair recently that were Danners so Im assuming they were done as an aftermarket thing ? Trouble is we have to have a pair that are stamped with the correct marks or we get kicked off so might get away with a pair of providing they were kevlar lined , any ideas ?


----------



## Meadow Beaver

Kind of off topic but, I just got Lies, Logs, and Loggers 3rd printing, very cool book.


----------



## Greystoke

mtsamloggit said:


> I thought you already had a saw or 10....
> 
> Nate I still have the 440. Haven't really been trying to sell it, but it's for sale.....One of those kind of deals. I don't think I've even started it since I bought the 46. It's just taking up space in the shop. I don't hang onto much that I don't use - Sam



There is an empty space in the Tarzota that has been buggin the #### out of me!


----------



## Rounder

dave k said:


> We get them bigish 3' plus, I find they can be a bit two faced when you put them down if you know what I mean, when you expect them to hold they just want to fall and vicsa versa !!
> 
> View attachment 213168
> 
> 
> This is the big boy, just North of here. They won't let me trip it......I asked nice too.


----------



## Rounder

tarzanstree said:


> There is an empty space in the Tarzota that has been buggin the #### out of me!



You need help guy.


----------



## dave k

Think we would have to call that one Big Daddy !! Nice pic Sam.


----------



## Rounder

dave k said:


> Think we would have to call that one Big Daddy !! Nice pic Sam.



It's not the tallest in North America, but it contains the most board feet. The trees around it are all 3-5 feet in diameter, one of the very few stands spared when the company came through. iI's pretty neat to see in person.


----------



## Metals406

Jake, I haven't even looked at the 38 today, done did family stuff all day. . . Just got home from Whitefish.


----------



## Metals406

dave k said:


> We get them bigish 3' plus, I find they can be a bit two faced when you put them down if you know what I mean, when you expect them to hold they just want to fall and vicsa versa !!
> 
> About caulks Sam ( slamm ) got a pair recently that were Danners so Im assuming they were done as an aftermarket thing ? Trouble is we have to have a pair that are stamped with the correct marks or we get kicked off so might get away with a pair of providing they were kevlar lined , any ideas ?



Dave, either of these two would pass your 'boot inspector' checks y'all have over there. They're supposed to be a pretty good product too.

Amazon.com: Viking Timberwolf Professional Chainsaw Boot - Caulked Soles: Home Improvement

http://www.amazon.com/Viking-Black-Tusk-Chainsaw-Boots/dp/B00593LH6E


----------



## paccity

didn't fall them today but i'm really tempted. it was a nice day for a short drive to get up out of this damn invertion. View attachment 213230
View attachment 213231
View attachment 213232
View attachment 213233
theres still 50/60' down off the edge of the road. it,s one of my little hangouts 15 min's from home.


----------



## Metals406

*Holy balls* that's a big stick! :drool:

Kill it! Kill it! :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## paccity

that valley has a lot of them would make for a great gtg. we can dream.


----------



## Sport Faller

mtsamloggit said:


> dave k said:
> 
> 
> 
> We get them bigish 3' plus, I find they can be a bit two faced when you put them down if you know what I mean, when you expect them to hold they just want to fall and vicsa versa !!
> 
> View attachment 213168
> 
> 
> This is the big boy, just North of here. They won't let me trip it......I asked nice too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ummmm...... heyyyyyy, so uh, say there was a guy, and this guy liked to go "sight seeing" for big trees, maybe his name is Blake Blanudsen, where would he go to get nice pics (and a #####in video) of this tree
> 
> On a totally unrelated note, anybody here have a 42" bar and a loop for my 660 that I can borrow for a day or two
Click to expand...


----------



## Metals406

Well Blake, the tree is in the Swan -- and protected -- so bring your game face. 

Ascending the Giants - Chronicles Of Measuring Champion Trees


----------



## Rounder

bigskyjake said:


> mtsamloggit said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ummmm...... heyyyyyy, so uh, say there was a guy, and this guy liked to go "sight seeing" for big trees, maybe his name is Blake Blanudsen, where would he go to get nice pics (and a #####in video) of this tree
> 
> On a totally unrelated note, anybody here have a 42" bar and a loop for my 660 that I can borrow for a day or two
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jake, I got to tip one that was 48" across the stump this past summer. Had to quarter it up the hill into a rock chute. Skybound as ####! 3 long logs that looked like beer cans + the top. Cutting the burls off sucked. One of my favorite trees I've ever fell. Dandy logs! 440 with a 28.
Click to expand...


----------



## Sport Faller

Metals406 said:


> Well Blake, the tree is in the Swan -- and protected -- so bring your game face.
> 
> Ascending the Giants - Chronicles Of Measuring Champion Trees



Sheeehit, who the hell you think is gonna be there with me knee deep in chips (wait, no, noodles SQUAREGROUND!)



mtsamloggit said:


> bigskyjake said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jake, I got to tip one that was 48" across the stump this past summer. Had to quarter it up the hill into a rock chute. Skybound as ####! 3 long logs that looked like beer cans + the top. Cutting the burls off sucked. One of my favorite trees I've ever fell. Dandy logs! 440 with a 28.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice, my biggest is a Larch that was 42" 'crost the stump with a 38 MagII hanging off a 28", but I got one eyeballed for next spring that's gonna put me over the 4' mark
> 
> those burls are about like cuttin off a chunk of concrete huh :msp_biggrin:
Click to expand...


----------



## Rounder

View attachment 213441


Good bye gullets.


----------



## OregonSawyer

Looks like Santa got somebodies present right!


----------



## Metals406

mtsamloggit said:


> View attachment 213441
> 
> 
> Good bye gullets.



How is it working Sam? How bout some video of the action?


----------



## Rounder

Can't do videos, but it works amazingly well. I feel like a real dumb ass for not having done this a long time ago! Cheap and so much easier - Sam


----------



## Metals406

Is that a little HF unit?


----------



## Sport Faller

mtsamloggit said:


> View attachment 213441
> 
> 
> Good bye gullets.



Holy #### Clark Griswold, that's a pretty good jag of plugins there in the background


----------



## Rounder

Metals406 said:


> Is that a little HF unit?



Yeah, pretty chincy, but good enough for gullets.


----------



## Rounder

bigskyjake said:


> Holy #### Clark Griswold, that's a pretty good jag of plugins there in the background



Lol, lots of light and power tools, anything to make maintance easier/quicker.


----------



## Metals406

Here's Sam's setup for his Christmas lights. :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## hammerlogging

mtsamloggit said:


> View attachment 213441
> 
> 
> Good bye gullets.



#### yeah. I'm stoked too, thanks to coastal.


----------



## Rounder

View attachment 213834

View attachment 213835



Decent strip for once, nice fir. Kind of a pain to cut a swale with pre-run cooridors.......but good going is good going - Sam


----------



## Metals406

Looks like good ground too. . . Not too steep.


----------



## Rounder

Metals406 said:


> Looks like good ground too. . . Not too steep.



#### yes. Up is fine, but the knees need break from down once in a while. Thank God the FS doesnt know what high track 5's and timbcos can do. Good deal on this job, kind of in front of God and everyone. No hiding anything.


----------



## hammerlogging

In front of everyone, thats my favorite kind. Unashamed in your face forestry. Look how good we did. Wanna have your timber cut? Great.


----------



## bitzer

Nice pics Sam. I'd love to lay out some decent softwood for a day just to see what its like. 

The job I'm on now is right in view of a main highway. The landing is maybe 200 yards across a corn field from it. It makes me a little leary with my machine tucked in the woods at night, but its kind of funny. Like yep, theres logging going on here. 

Mid teens to low 20s all day. No wind, partly sunny. Just a beautiful ####ing day for logging. Got a lot done for a change.


----------



## Rounder

hammerlogging said:


> In front of everyone, thats my favorite kind. Unashamed in your face forestry. Look how good we did. Wanna have your timber cut? Great.



Emotions are running a little high on this one amongst the locals. In terms of view-shed, it does come out a lot nicer with the yarders. Maybe not the most econonomical way of logging it at the end of the day, but we've got to keep the peace if we want to keep going in this day and age....... And they're willing to pay yarder price.


----------



## Metals406

Hey, if'n a guy can get away with yarding that ground, everyone involved loves it -- from the fallers to the rigging crew. And like ya say, it's cleaner than cat work.

It's nice to have a break from the steeps every now and then.


----------



## Rounder

Metals406 said:


> Hey, if'n a guy can get away with yarding that ground, everyone involved loves it -- from the fallers to the rigging crew. And like ya say, it's cleaner than cat work.
> 
> It's nice to have a break from the steeps every now and then.



Nice right now, muddier than hell, but they're still letting us go.


----------



## Metals406

mtsamloggit said:


> Nice right now, muddier than hell, but they're still letting us go.



Muddy here too. . . It's like spring in December. I'm not gonna complain though, I'm more than happy to skip winter this year. :msp_thumbup:


----------



## Rounder

Metals406 said:


> Muddy here too. . . It's like spring in December. I'm not gonna complain though, I'm more than happy to skip winter this year. :msp_thumbup:



Yeah, but then we'll have to choke on smoke all summer!


----------



## Metals406

mtsamloggit said:


> Yeah, but then we'll have to choke on smoke all summer!



Meh, Cody needs to make some big bucks falling on fires anyway. :biggrin:


----------



## bitzer

Its spring here too. F'n bull####. Anyway here is the biggest ash on my current job. A few inches outside of the 28" bar tip. I found out why I've been bucking off the first 8 footer (heart rot) for fire wood on this job and why the trees are so bushy, mangled, and short. It was an old cow pasture. Lots of fun re-generation to cut out in order to lay these damn things out.

This one actually had some decent logs in it.





Kinda missed the lay. Just too much weight for the wood to bear. 




Heres why: first limb about 20' up was 18" where I flushed it and spanned 40'. All of the limb weight and lean was down the hill. I brought it away from the shed anyway though and didn't break any of the wood! If the limbs would have been straight enough I could have gotten four more logs out of it. Good bump to the firewood pile though. 





I ran around in my spankin new Hoffamn pac caulks today and they kicked ass! It was the perfect day for it too. Freezin rain then snow then regular rain. Where in the hell is winter?
View attachment 214302

View attachment 214303

View attachment 214304


----------



## Metals406

Dang Bitz! Ya can't win fer losing with the weather huh?

That's a chit lay for that tree! 

If'n that was a conifer, you would have power-bucked the crap out'a that thing. :biggrin:

Glad you like your new caulks. . . I couldn't imagine working in the woods without mine.


----------



## Sport Faller

Metals406 said:


> Dang Bitz! Ya can't win fer losing with the weather huh?
> 
> That's a chit lay for that tree!
> 
> *If'n that was a conifer, you would have power-bucked the crap out'a that thing*. :biggrin:
> 
> Glad you like your new caulks. . . I couldn't imagine working in the woods without mine.



I remember getting wood with Uncle Boyd one time and dropped a decent sized Dougie on a step about like that thinking it would just kinda straddle it like in the pictures..... WRONG, two chains later and it came out of the woods like a miniature version of the oulde tymey lags they daisy chained together and hauled out with a donkey engine


----------



## Hddnis

Seen a DF dropped off a step like that, broke it clean right below the branches and the log, about 30" and some 40', jumped back up in the air a good 20+ feet. Branches flying everywhere too.



Mr. HE


----------



## Gologit

Hddnis said:


> Seen a DF dropped off a step like that, broke it clean right below the branches and the log, about 30" and some 40', jumped back up in the air a good 20+ feet. Branches flying everywhere too.
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. HE



Trees like that always cause a comment from somebody, like the side rod or the bullbuck..."Well, I guess we could send that one to Diamond Match."

The faller always has some good excuses ready..."The wind caught it" or "Musta had some defect right where it broke" or "Well, we need some short logs anyway."


----------



## RandyMac

"Well, that coulda gone better"

Then there are the ones you thought would break and ended up gyratin' around.


----------



## Hddnis

Gologit said:


> Trees like that always cause a comment from somebody, like the side rod or the bullbuck..."Well, I guess we could send that one to Diamond Match."
> 
> The faller always has some good excuses ready..."The wind caught it" or "Musta had some defect right where it broke" or "Well, we need some short logs anyway."





In this case the only comments were "Good job" because it was the only way to set 'er down without hitting a house.

There was a little ribbing over the uneven hinge, fiber pull, cutting it at chest height on flat ground, etc.:hmm3grin2orange:




Mr. HE


----------



## Gologit

Hddnis said:


> In this case the only comments were "Good job" because it was the only way to set 'er down without hitting a house.
> 
> There was a little ribbing over the uneven hinge, fiber pull, cutting it at chest height on flat ground, etc.:hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. HE



That's better than getting ribbed for smushing a house.


----------



## bitzer

Metals406 said:


> Dang Bitz! Ya can't win fer losing with the weather huh?
> 
> That's a chit lay for that tree!
> 
> If'n that was a conifer, you would have power-bucked the crap out'a that thing. :biggrin:
> 
> Glad you like your new caulks. . . I couldn't imagine working in the woods without mine.



Come on that was the perfect spot for it! If it would have been a decent straight ash it would have busted all to hell. Then again I wouldn't have missed so bad either. With that heavy top it went over like a pumpkin on a pitchfork! 

I tell ya though the weather is really killin me. Go figure, the year I get my #### together and deceide to go logging we have a wet fall and no winter to speak of yet.


----------



## Metals406

bitzer said:


> Come on that was the perfect spot for it! If it would have been a decent straight ash it would have busted all to hell. Then again I wouldn't have missed so bad either. With that heavy top it went over like a pumpkin on a pitchfork!
> 
> I tell ya though the weather is really killin me. Go figure, the year I get my #### together and deceide to go logging we have a wet fall and no winter to speak of yet.



Yeah, this weak winter was supposed to not happen. Our local weather guesser stood in front of the camera and just scratched his head. We're supposed to be in La Nina and cold and wet -- but instead we've been warm and a little drier.

I'm thinking it'll come in like a lamb, and leave like a lion. Even the Old Farmers Almanac said bad winter, super hot summer, and their more often right compared to the weather guessers.

It's really killing my buddies who supplement their income with snowplowing.


----------



## RandyMac

Best wishes to my friends for the New Year.


----------



## paccity

and to you mr. mac. and to all ....


----------



## Metals406

Happy New Year to all my tree murdering brethren! :biggrin:


----------



## Gologit

Yup.


----------



## Sport Faller

Happy New Year everbody
kept it at home last night, must be gettin old (or just fed up with the hordes or ####heads that occupy Whitefish bars and the 98% tweekers/bros that occupy Kalispell bars year-round)


----------



## slowp

Happy Year.

What are you Montaaaana guys doing? :smile2: We are having a hefty wind coming from your direction.
Here's the weather. Note the freezing level. 

_Mostly cloudy. A chance of rain and snow north part in the morning. Snow level 1500 feet increasing to 4500 feet in the afternoon. Afternoon pass temperatures in the lower to mid 30s. East wind in the passes 10 to 15 mph. 
» ZIP Code Detail 
Tonight
Mostly cloudy. *Freezing level 6500 feet*. East wind in the passes 10 to 15 mph. _


----------



## Sport Faller

slowp said:


> Happy Year.
> 
> What are you Montaaaana guys doing? :smile2: We are having a hefty wind coming from your direction.
> Here's the weather. Note the freezing level.
> 
> _Mostly cloudy. A chance of rain and snow north part in the morning. Snow level 1500 feet increasing to 4500 feet in the afternoon. Afternoon pass temperatures in the lower to mid 30s. East wind in the passes 10 to 15 mph.
> » ZIP Code Detail
> Tonight
> Mostly cloudy. *Freezing level 6500 feet*. East wind in the passes 10 to 15 mph. _



hunkered odwn in the middle of the flock :hmm3grin2orange: it's been chilly the last couple days


----------



## OH_Varmntr

Can't believe it's 2012. Makes me feel old, and I'm only 23. :msp_tongue:

Last night was rough. 'Shine was flowing smoothly...a little _too_ smoothly.


----------



## Sport Faller

OH_Varmntr said:


> Can't believe it's 2012. Makes me feel old, and I'm only 23. :msp_tongue:
> 
> Last night was rough. 'Shine was flowing smoothly...a little _too_ smoothly.



Huh? like real shine, like smooth #### or the stuff they use to poison raccoons out of the henhouse. I tried to make some once, looooong story. Hmmm, I wonder how much could fit in a flat rate box Hmmmmm :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Metals406

bigskyjake said:


> Huh? like real shine, like smooth #### or the stuff they use to poison raccoons out of the henhouse. I tried to make some once, looooong story. Hmmm, I wonder how much could fit in a flat rate box Hmmmmm :hmm3grin2orange:



Needless to say, but that's why he's blind in his left eye and has that facial tick now. :biggrin::biggrin:


----------



## Sport Faller

Metals406 said:


> Needless to say, but that's why he's blind in his left eye and has that facial tick now. :biggrin::biggrin:



(Cousin Eddie voice) " Well Clark, every time I belched my knees buckled and I pissed my pants"


----------



## Gologit

Metals406 said:


> Needless to say, but that's why he's blind in his left eye and has that facial tick now. :biggrin::biggrin:



That clears up a few questions I've had about that guy. :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## madhatte

Pfft. 'Twas an answer lookin' for a question.


----------



## Gologit

madhatte said:


> Pfft. 'Twas an answer lookin' for a question.



Yup.


----------



## OH_Varmntr

bigskyjake said:


> Huh? like real shine, like smooth #### or the stuff they use to poison raccoons out of the henhouse. I tried to make some once, looooong story. Hmmm, I wonder how much could fit in a flat rate box Hmmmmm :hmm3grin2orange:



I don't drink that cheap crap. This stuff is smoother than the $300 bottle of double malt from Scotland I had during college. 

First thing I do is smell it. If it burns my nose I prolly won't like it. My bottle of Jack burns the sniffer worst than this stuff.

Put it this way, my wife drank it, and even she said it was smooth. That's sayin something. :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Rounder

Happy New Year Randy, as well as everyone else - Sam


----------



## bitzer

Happy new year boys! Hope some of you sucked er up tight last night! 

Back to layin some wood on the ground tomorrow! Its gunna be windier than hell, but winter is stopping in for a few days this week. Maybe I can get him drunk and make him stay awhile.


----------



## Samlock

Happy new year to all!

Last week swimming in the lukewarm sea under the brightest blue sky, today scared to death cutting blow downs in the snow. Looks like they had a good storm here while we were over seas.

Easy living makes Jack a soft boy!

Sam


----------



## bitzer

Kept er in the boundry. She had just a little lean, just a little.







View attachment 214999


----------



## dave k

This was my Friday afternoon fun. We have had on and off storm force winds for the last couple of weeks. It's never much fun when they are in a heap instead of you being in control and falling them ! The Beech was 3' and had landed so it had tension all over the place just what I wanted ! I was back out today doing more of the same, it's all work.


----------



## lfnh

dave k said:


> This was my Friday afternoon fun. We have had on and off storm force winds for the last couple of weeks. It's never much fun when they are in a heap instead of you being in control and falling them ! The Beech was 3' and had landed so it had tension all over the place just what I wanted ! I was back out today doing more of the same, it's all work.



Not much good to say about them sob's.

How's that 372 hot rod running ?

Thanks for the share.

Stay you know what.


----------



## lfnh

bitzer said:


> Kept er in the boundry. She had just a little lean, just a little.



what ?

no pic of the aftermath...













j/k 
thanks for the share.


----------



## Cedarkerf

dave k said:


> This was my Friday afternoon fun. We have had on and off storm force winds for the last couple of weeks. It's never much fun when they are in a heap instead of you being in control and falling them ! The Beech was 3' and had landed so it had tension all over the place just what I wanted ! I was back out today doing more of the same, it's all work.



Those arnt falling pics those are fell pics:jester:


----------



## bitzer

lfnh said:


> what ?
> 
> no pic of the aftermath...
> 
> j/k
> thanks for the share.



I had one I swear! Wasn't much to look at. Just a tangle of crap which was all kind of swallowed up by the hill side. I needed lots of room to keep this thing going, which meant brushing out a lot of crap in its way. That picture was me laying directly under the lean. 

I'm moving Monday to a job with a lot of juicy white oak I'm told. High canopy, mature, and hasn't been logged in several decades. And its flat! I can't wait. Now I just need winter to co-operate. 


Dave K- That tangled crap just keeps your reflexes and puzzler sharp! Or sore.


----------



## Youngbuck20

bitzer said:


> Kept er in the boundry. She had just a little lean, just a little.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 214999



Why three cuts there??


----------



## Sport Faller

Youngbuck20 said:


> Why three cuts there??



I beleive that's a "soft Dutchman" to get her swingin a little bit


----------



## Youngbuck20

Hmm never heard of it, or seen it. Cool


----------



## bitzer

Youngbuck20 said:


> Why three cuts there??



Do you want the long or the short version? 

Basically its about continual movement in order to keep the tree on the stump longer whereas a regular dutchman may cause the wood to break before you hit the intended lay. 

It looks like a bunch of bull#### and sometimes it is. Its really ####ing cool when you've got it all cut up and the tree is moving well. I'll kill the saw and watch it work. Its a very wierd thing to watch when the woods is dead calm and silent until CRASH!


----------



## Youngbuck20

bitzer said:


> Do you want the long or the short version?
> 
> Basically its about continual movement in order to keep the tree on the stump longer whereas a regular dutchman may cause the wood to break before you hit the intended lay.
> 
> It looks like a bunch of bull#### and sometimes it is. Its really ####ing cool when you've got it all cut up and the tree is moving well. I'll kill the saw and watch it work. Its a very wierd thing to watch when the woods is dead calm and silent until CRASH!



That's awesome! Gunna look for some videos. Thanks for the info man!!


----------



## forestryworks

Been a while, but I finally got me a little falling fix. In Idaho!

Cut several trees for some friends while on vacation. Cutting birch in these pics. Pictures are kinda small.


----------



## RandyMac

*crumpler!!!!*


----------



## slowp

Taterland? You are getting closer.


----------



## Sport Faller

forestryworks said:


> Been a while, but I finally got me a little falling fix. In Idaho!
> 
> Cut several trees for some friends while on vacation. Cutting birch in these pics. Pictures are kinda small.



Are you back home yet, you No-Montana-visitin' sum##### :msp_w00t:


----------



## Gologit

bigskyjake said:


> Are you back home yet, you No-Montana-visitin' sum##### :msp_w00t:



I see he didn't make it over the hill to our side either. We'll get him out here one of these days and he'll wonder why it took him so long.


----------



## Sport Faller

Gologit said:


> I see he didn't make it over the hill to our side either. We'll get him out here one of these days and he'll wonder why it took him so long.



Damn Straight Bob, Idaho can be kindof like his "starter" North West, Don't wanna jump into those Pacific Coast Monster trees or the Awesomeness that is MT all in one big hurried leap, ya know


----------



## forestryworks

bigskyjake said:


> Are you back home yet, you No-Montana-visitin' sum##### :msp_w00t:



Hey, I ate lunch in Troy. Does that count? :hmm3grin2orange:



slowp said:


> Taterland? You are getting closer.



A step at a time seems to be working!



Gologit said:


> We'll get him out here one of these days and he'll wonder why it took him so long.



You got that right!

EDIT: Got to run square grind chain that day. That stuff is the hot sauce, especially in softwoods. Worked great in the hardwoods, too. Square is definitely a little faster than round, can't argue with that.

Ground up about 6 loops of chain on an old swing arm. We'll see how I did once I get them.


----------



## Sport Faller

forestryworks said:


> *Hey, I ate lunch in Troy. Does that count? :hmm3grin2orange:*
> 
> 
> 
> A step at a time seems to be working!
> 
> 
> 
> You got that right!
> 
> EDIT: Got to run square grind chain that day. That stuff is the hot sauce, especially in softwoods. Worked great in the hardwoods, too. Square is definitely a little faster than round, can't argue with that.
> 
> Ground up about 6 loops of chain on an old swing arm. We'll see how I did once I get them.



Uhhh, no, that's not too representative of MT, those people you saw shooting up crank in the street and setting fire to any car with out of county plates and abandoned buildings aren't my people


----------



## paccity

don't want to overload him with the westside greatness.:msp_wink:


----------



## bitzer

Nice pics Jameson! I'll bet it was fun to get some time on the saw!





Meat and potatoes. 





This seems to be the norm on the new job. Runnin the 394 with a 32"er daily. I'm diggin fillin my bunk with 4-6 logs and a few pulp sticks.

View attachment 217047


----------



## Sport Faller

The guy's a certified badass, just look at that setup he's rockin in the falling contest, busted to hell tin hat, chaps that were the first leg protection prototype, and a Poulan from when they were the ####


----------



## Sport Faller

Roma said:


> Yeah, those chaps of his were probably stuffed with old newspaper and hay
> 
> Poulan with a full wrap is where it's at!



Hell Yeah, oh and what's that? Oh yeah, it's a rollernose

That saw looks like America used to


----------



## stihl 440

bitzer said:


> Kept er in the boundry. She had just a little lean, just a little.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 214999



I see im not the only one who uses a soft dutchman in hardwoods...lol..it leaves a stump that looks like a beaver was at it but hey it [email protected] well sometimes too...i've only had a couple that didnt co-operate with it but id say success rate is a little more than the fail so...but most trees dont take much more than a regular dutchman to get them to do what you want.....i've used a soft dutchman in combo with a siswheel on some really bad leaners and walked them away from 180 degrees to the lean...again it leaves a he11 of a stump but wtf..it worked and stayed with my current lay. But it has to have just the right amount of limb weight and lean to make everything work as planned...and you need a solid tree..no rot or failure will arise. It is also very easy to loose a tree over sideways with this method. I got a question bitzer..do you start your backcut with the higher cut or the lower?...i have expiremented a little bit and it seems that if you use the higher or the middle cut the results come out a little better in your favor.


----------



## bert0168

OK, I've heard it mentioned a couple of times now so what exactly does a siswheel cut look like?


----------



## Rounder

Nice view from the strip, double yarders, sunrise/moonrise. Hope you all had a good safe week -Sam


View attachment 217229

View attachment 217230

View attachment 217228


----------



## slowp

That pickup is not red.


----------



## Metals406

mtsamloggit said:


> Nice view from the stip, double yarders, sunrise/moonrise. Hope you all had a good safe week -Sam
> 
> 
> View attachment 217229
> 
> View attachment 217230
> 
> View attachment 217228



Sam, you need a second saw?


----------



## Rounder

slowp said:


> That pickup is not red.



And not mine thank goodness!


----------



## Rounder

Metals406 said:


> Sam, you need a second saw?



I do....but the boss won't hire one.


----------



## bitzer

stihl 440 said:


> I see im not the only one who uses a soft dutchman in hardwoods...lol..it leaves a stump that looks like a beaver was at it but hey it [email protected] well sometimes too...i've only had a couple that didnt co-operate with it but id say success rate is a little more than the fail so...but most trees dont take much more than a regular dutchman to get them to do what you want.....i've used a soft dutchman in combo with a siswheel on some really bad leaners and walked them away from 180 degrees to the lean...again it leaves a he11 of a stump but wtf..it worked and stayed with my current lay. But it has to have just the right amount of limb weight and lean to make everything work as planned...and you need a solid tree..no rot or failure will arise. It is also very easy to loose a tree over sideways with this method. I got a question bitzer..do you start your backcut with the higher cut or the lower?...i have expiremented a little bit and it seems that if you use the higher or the middle cut the results come out a little better in your favor.



Ideally you want your backcut and gunning cut to line up every time. Consant movement is key with this thing and with any swing cuts. It takes very little to stop the action and kill it entirely. If your backcut is low I think it will stall it out a little. I was actually playing with that today with regular dutchmans in the wind. They kind of held to the stump longer. Not to be a dip####, but....







This was one of my first real succesful soft dutchmans swinging from beyond the 100 degree mark. Roughly 180 from the lean. I used soft dutches a lot before in trees that leaned hard at 90s with heavy head weight. That ash was actually one of those 90s. It was probably at about a 45 to the ground and had a very heavy crown. As long as you've got sufficient holding wood for the tree the heart shouldn't matter all that much. Shouldn't is the key word there. 
View attachment 217289


----------



## bitzer

mtsamloggit said:


> Nice view from the strip, double yarders, sunrise/moonrise. Hope you all had a good safe week -Sam
> 
> 
> View attachment 217229
> 
> View attachment 217230
> 
> View attachment 217228



Goddammit Sam! You've got the views!


----------



## bitzer

bert0168 said:


> OK, I've heard it mentioned a couple of times now so what exactly does a siswheel cut look like?



This picture is kinda crappy and the stump is too, but here it is. Its the wedge shape cut out of the face where the leaf nestled in. That pull out of the back has nothing to do with it. I left that back piece of wood un-cut to help pull it around even more though. This ash was leaning way out there.





View attachment 217295


----------



## stihl 440

bitzer said:


> This picture is kinda crappy and the stump is too, but here it is. Its the wedge shape cut out of the face where the leaf nestled in. That pull out of the back has nothing to do with it. I left that back piece of wood un-cut to help pull it around even more though. This ash was leaning way out there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 217295



Thats exactly it right there, but i have never seen it used in tandem with a snipe...might have to try it. And i see you left a what i call a "post" pull it more in that direction as well...i also use oak's root flare or what i call a "canker" to hold them into your intended lay...and have had really good results.


----------



## Dalmatian90

I went googling soft dutchmen -- to my inexperienced eye they look like a good explanation, if you follow the links he wrote up a bit more explanation:

<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/tbN1sKN7IlI?version=3&feature=player_detailpage"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/tbN1sKN7IlI?version=3&feature=player_detailpage" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="360"></object>
Soft Dutchmen - YouTube

<iframe width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/uvVY5jaY9jg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
"Ultra" Soft Dutchmen - YouTube

I was quite willing to try a bore cut after watching the videos on line and reading about it...this one I wouldn't even consider attempting without having hands on instruction  I think I have half a clue why it works but I'd really love to see the physics of it working in real life to make sure I understand it!!!


----------



## HorseFaller

Dalmatian90 said:


> I went googling soft dutchmen -- to my inexperienced eye they look like a good explanation, if you follow the links he wrote up a bit more explanation:
> 
> <object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/tbN1sKN7IlI?version=3&feature=player_detailpage"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/tbN1sKN7IlI?version=3&feature=player_detailpage" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="360"></object>
> Soft Dutchmen - YouTube
> 
> <iframe width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/uvVY5jaY9jg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
> "Ultra" Soft Dutchmen - YouTube
> 
> I was quite willing to try a bore cut after watching the videos on line and reading about it...this one I wouldn't even consider attempting without having hands on instruction  I think I have half a clue why it works but I'd really love to see the physics of it working in real life to make sure I understand it!!!



Totally! 101Hotsaws is the chit. Love his videos. Wish he posted more. Very informative. Have used both on fir and alder with perfect results.


----------



## HorseFaller

stihl 440 said:


> Thats exactly it right there, but i have never seen it used in tandem with a snipe...might have to try it. And i see you left a what i call a "post" pull it more in that direction as well...i also use oak's root flare or what i call a "canker" to hold them into your intended lay...and have had really good results.



Wait wait wait explain please. This is new to me. I know I'm pretty green to alot but now I'm intrigued. What does the the wedge in the hinge or just in front do? Is it meant to pull towards it cant(I don't think) its less holding wood. Someone enlightin me please. I fall alot of hardwood this could be helpful


----------



## HorseFaller

Crap talking about the "sis-wheel"


----------



## Metals406

mtsamloggit said:


> I do....but the boss won't hire one.



Hire??

Hell, I just want to go murder 250 innocent trees for 7 hours and then go drink beer. . . On my dime!


----------



## stihl 440

HorseFaller said:


> Wait wait wait explain please. This is new to me. I know I'm pretty green to alot but now I'm intrigued. What does the the wedge in the hinge or just in front do? Is it meant to pull towards it cant(I don't think) its less holding wood. Someone enlightin me please. I fall alot of hardwood this could be helpful



It kind of extends your notch on that side if that makes any sense..it maintains control even after your notch closes..and kind of extends your hingewood on that side...so in theory if your swinging a tree say its lean is in the opposite direction of the siswheel and just like in his pic you want it to come around to the left...you put the siswheel in on the near side or your side from where the pic was taken...what it does is it keeps the tree swinging even though your main notch closed on that side..which is want you want really you want that binding action on the far side to make it walk around...you want that side or the leaning side to close and really its not too much of the butt swinging its the top..it'll sit out and then swing around..and when i use a siswheel i cut the far side off by putting in a regular dutchman...which will allow for the swinging motion to take place..and for that butt to rotate or roll if it needs to without hingewood on that side keeping it from doing so. And to explain how to put in a siswheel or how deep or how wide of a sis wheel you need well its impossible to explain over the net..and even if i do you might not understand what i mean anyway...its kind of something you have to learn in the woods...hands on. But watch some of hotsaws101 vidoes on youtube he gives you an idea and you can go from there. I think his name is jack (hotsaws101) and hes a pretty [email protected] good softwood cutter...and saw modder. Another thing is for these type of methods is you gotta know what trees to put them in and what trees to not. It all depends on the ground, the lay, the crown, and the belly, and the soundness of the tree...all have to be working in the wrong way just right(if that makes any sense) for these to work in your favor. And if your swinging it you cant have other crowns in your way or it just wont work...its gotta be pretty clear. I have used this on some of these tall twisted up F**kin cherrys we have been cutting lately and cherry seems to work well with it as well as hickory, ash, beech, poplar,birch..and some maple...and its hard to get a cherry to do anything of that nature but i have had good luck with swinging and rolling them without busting them all up and pulling gobs of fiber which is a no-no as a hardwood timber cutter. I dont know how some of the softwood guys get away with it.


----------



## bert0168

bitzer said:


> This picture is kinda crappy and the stump is too, but here it is. Its the wedge shape cut out of the face where the leaf nestled in. That pull out of the back has nothing to do with it. I left that back piece of wood un-cut to help pull it around even more though. This ash was leaning way out there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 217295



So does the wedge you left act as a kind of 'key' to rotate the tree away from it? In the picture you show, would the lean have been to the wedge side and the intended lay opposite?


----------



## HorseFaller

So what I can see it gives you a little more holding wood. It's not just a v cut out of your face in front of your hinge.


----------



## Rounder

Metals406 said:


> Hire??
> 
> Hell, I just want to go murder 250 innocent trees for 7 hours and then go drink beer. . . On my dime!



Yep, you've got it bad Nate. I just want to go drink beer for a day, #### the trees!

Oh yeah, we'll be needing 300-350 out of ya. :msp_biggrin:


----------



## Metals406

mtsamloggit said:


> Yep, you've got it bad Nate. I just want to go drink beer for a day, #### the trees!
> 
> Oh yeah, we'll be needing 300-350 out of ya. :msp_biggrin:



You may be on to something here. . . Call it "Timber faller day camp". Guys pay to cut trees for the day in the hip pocket of an instructor. Charge'em $350 for the day, which will include lunch (a baloney sandwich, Mountain dew, and baggy of Lays BBQ chips ).

Annnnnd, the logger gets free wood on the ground for the day!


----------



## Metals406

HorseFaller said:


> So what I can see it gives you a little more holding wood. It's not just a v cut out of your face in front of your hinge.



Yes, the siswheel maximizes your hold-wood by elongating the fibers, also the face is steeper on the hold side, so the other side closes first.


----------



## 056 kid

I was cutting alder off a tap line Friday with a co-worker. He cuts tall block faces in small trees with side lean. A big open block I like for standing up trees rather than trying to hold them against a side lean. I wanted to try and show him about a sezwheel without coming across as "I know more than you" I figured he would have known already . . He didn't, I think he took it well. But yea, some folks around here don't like right siders haha. Oh well. Hooking chrome ass steelhead every few casts less than 5 miles from home negates all the EXTRA friendly people! I landed a dandy buck over Christmas, almost 20 lbs!


----------



## Gologit

Metals406 said:


> You may be on to something here. . . Call it "Timber faller day camp". Guys pay to cut trees for the day in the hip pocket of an instructor. Charge'em $350 for the day, which will include lunch (a baloney sandwich, Mountain dew, and baggy of Lays BBQ chips ).
> 
> Annnnnd, the logger gets free wood on the ground for the day!



Hmmmmm. Nah, forget it. I've never had to take tranqs yet and a batch of newbie fallers running around might change that. 

Damn, can't you just see it though? It might be fun to watch. Kinda like that Monty Python bit where all the guys were trying different sport activities, flailing around and falling down a lot.


----------



## paccity

056 kid said:


> I was cutting alder off a tap line Friday with a co-worker. He cuts tall block faces in small trees with side lean. A big open block I like for standing up trees rather than trying to hold them against a side lean. I wanted to try and show him about a sezwheel without coming across as "I know more than you" I figured he would have known already . . He didn't, I think he took it well. But yea, some folks around here don't like right siders haha. Oh well. Hooking chrome ass steelhead every few casts less than 5 miles from home negates all the EXTRA friendly people! I landed a dandy buck over Christmas, almost 20 lbs!



so thats where you have been hiding. i'm pissed, this last year i paid for tags that i didnt use. didn't even wet a line.


----------



## madhatte

Metals406 said:


> You may be on to something here. . . Call it "Timber faller day camp". Guys pay to cut trees for the day in the hip pocket of an instructor. Charge'em $350 for the day, which will include lunch (a baloney sandwich, Mountain dew, and baggy of Lays BBQ chips ).
> 
> Annnnnd, the logger gets free wood on the ground for the day!



GOL, dogg.


----------



## slowp

Metals406 said:


> You may be on to something here. . . Call it "Timber faller day camp". Guys pay to cut trees for the day in the hip pocket of an instructor. Charge'em $350 for the day, which will include lunch (a baloney sandwich, Mountain dew, and baggy of Lays BBQ chips ).
> 
> Annnnnd, the logger gets free wood on the ground for the day!



I had that idea eons ago. I call it Man Camp. I'd have a comfy camp. Comfy for normal people but roughing it for rich guys and sell them riggin' clothes and have a field trip to Kuliens to fit them for boots.
Then into an authentic crummie (well, maybe not too authentic) and off to the woods. I'd have fallers working as "guides" and the new faller would get a complimentary picture of him falling a tree. 

Then a nice lunch...perhaps a tablecloth thrown over a log. After a few more trees, back to camp where the "guides" could answer questions and lecture (B.S.) the campers. Beverages would be included.


----------



## Metals406

madhatte said:


> GOL, dogg.



No, no, no. . . I mean REAL timber falling! On some steeps, with real gear, and old mossbacks like Bob and Randy.

If someone brings a saw with an 18" bar, we make'em run 'ladders' up and down the hill.


----------



## Metals406

slowp said:


> I had that idea eons ago. I call it Man Camp. I'd have a comfy camp. Comfy for normal people but roughing it for rich guys and sell them riggin' clothes and have a field trip to Kuliens to fit them for boots.
> Then into an authentic crummie (well, maybe not too authentic) and off to the woods. I'd have fallers working as "guides" and the new faller would get a complimentary picture of him falling a tree.
> 
> Then a nice lunch...perhaps a tablecloth thrown over a log. After a few more trees, back to camp where the "guides" could answer questions and lecture (B.S.) the campers. Beverages would be included.



We'd have to pay more for your class Patty. . . It's fancy! 

For an extra $30 bucks, you could show them how to open a beer bottle with a running chainsaw ( a fancy import beer of course)!


----------



## Metals406

With the popularity of Axmen on the boob tube, I think this class could be a hit! 

They could sign a waiver that read, "If you die, welcome to logging, now pull up your nickers, grab your nuts, and quit complaining."


----------



## madhatte

Metals406 said:


> If someone brings a saw with an 18" bar, we make'em run 'ladders' up and down the hill.



Heh. You know there'd be a few unwitting takers for that activity.


----------



## HorseFaller

Metals406 said:


> Yes, the siswheel maximizes your hold-wood by elongating the fibers, also the face is steeper on the hold side, so the other side closes first.



Going to have to look for the right tree to try this. Thanks. This site has been great for me. Been falling pro for almost a year, but I was just told to fall with the lean. Knowing better. It's been alot of trial and error and run like a motha. Thanks again.


----------



## Gologit

HorseFaller said:


> Going to have to look for the right tree to try this. Thanks. This site has been great for me. Been falling pro for almost a year, but I was just told to fall with the lean. Knowing better. It's been alot of trial and error and run like a motha. Thanks again.



Just fall with the lean? Man, I want a job where you work.


----------



## Metals406

HorseFaller said:


> Going to have to look for the right tree to try this. Thanks. This site has been great for me. Been falling pro for almost a year, but I was just told to fall with the lean. Knowing better. It's been alot of trial and error and run like a motha. Thanks again.



Be careful with this advanced stuff! Not telling ya not to try it, just be careful.


----------



## Metals406

Speaking of advanced, when Cody was up here, he showed me something he used in Alaska.

You drop the tree from the face, no back cut.

You bore into the middle of the face and fan both ways. It was pretty neat, and handy to have in the goody bag.


----------



## 056 kid

paccity said:


> so thats where you have been hiding. i'm pissed, this last year i paid for tags that i didnt use. didn't even wet a line.


 Dang, that is no good at all. Just losing a few leaders is better than nothing. Don't feel too bad though, I fished my butt off for chinook, nothing not a single take . I guess thats why so many people line rub them:msp_rolleyes: I have plans for the future though:msp_sneaky: I watched a guy limit within 15 minutes of opening morning, glow in the dark cleos. . . .


----------



## 056 kid

HorseFaller said:


> Going to have to look for the right tree to try this. Thanks. This site has been great for me. Been falling pro for almost a year, but I was just told to fall with the lean. Knowing better. It's been alot of trial and error and run like a motha. Thanks again.



Falling as in tripping on an ivy and going face first into the brush? Yea, I tend to go with the lean to lmao.


----------



## bitzer

bert0168 said:


> So does the wedge you left act as a kind of 'key' to rotate the tree away from it? In the picture you show, would the lean have been to the wedge side and the intended lay opposite?



You cut the wedge shaped peice out of the face in front of the hinge to expose it. The lean is on the far side (opposite the siswel). By exposing the fibers of the hinge on the near side they bend instead of break when the face is closing, keeping the butt on the stump longer and allowing the top to swing to the lay. The far side is dutched off completely either before or during the process. The idea is keeping the tree on the stump long enough to pull the top from its lean to the lay. Just like with a dutchman you cut the far side off (lean side) and keep the near side intact (swing to side). Just keep the fatty hinge close to you if you get my drift. Explaining this in person is a #####, online it gets pretty abstract. Think of where the tension wood is and the compression wood is. Tension wood keeps the tree to the stump. You can see on the butt where it pulled the hinge wood from the stump.


----------



## Sport Faller

So, uh, where's the sign up sheet for this camp, also there needs to be a course on "field expedient TP" that involves not going home with pockets or sleeves on your shirt


----------



## Metals406

bigskyjake said:


> So, uh, where's the sign up sheet for this camp, also there needs to be a course on "field expedient TP" that involves not going home with pockets or sleeves on your shirt



Hahaha, you should have seen me my first week in the woods. I was like, "How do you guys pack TP with ya?"

They were like, "You see any sleeves on our shirts?" LOL

Ain't nothing worse than having the berries 800' feet down, and realizing you ain't got no sleeves left! :msp_scared:


----------



## bitzer

Metals406 said:


> Hahaha, you should have seen me my first week in the woods. I was like, "How do you guys pack TP with ya?"
> 
> They were like, "You see any sleeves on our shirts?" LOL
> 
> Ain't nothing worse than having the berries 800' feet down, and realizing you ain't got no sleeves left! :msp_scared:



Cotton knit fallers gloves work surprisingly well....


----------



## Metals406

bitzer said:


> Cotton knit fallers gloves work surprisingly well....



Perferably new ones that aren't embedded with sharp saw chips. 

A guy can lose a lot of gear to #2 woods duty. oop:


----------



## HorseFaller

Gologit said:


> Just fall with the lean? Man, I want a job where you work.



This job we have been on started as a hardwood thin. It was all overgrown rotten maple, birch and alder. Nothing like learning on the dangerous stuff. Bore cuts are a must. It doesn't take long to learn you are the fall guy, if it doesn't swing or yard well.


----------



## HorseFaller

056 kid said:


> Falling as in tripping on an ivy and going face first into the brush? Yea, I tend to go with the lean to lmao.



Not much ivy here. I have rolled my way through stinging nettles and blackberries. Got to watch where you pop a squat around here in the spring and summer for sure. I wrap my phone in a bandana that comes in handy when you work for number two in the brush.


----------



## Joe46

Well since this thread has taken a decided turn, I'll just throw this out. You guys of regular height, you buy men's talls. That way you have a lot of shirt tail material to work with.


----------



## slowp

Gologit said:


> Just fall with the lean? Man, I want a job where you work.



That's what I've been doing in the limblock patch. Except the one still went over backwards and hit the fence!

My Man Camp plan is to attract the type A (a stands for a bad thing) executives. Maybe the whole team. Turn it into a Team Building--Retreat type thing, or whatever the latest fad is. Remember the Fire Walking?
Well, we'll do it with tree falling. Try to boost their egos even more. And the "guides" may even teach some original cussing, if the client wishes. 

We don't want to get too hard on the clients. So, I'll supply lots of cushy soft toilet paper. No single ply.
We want to pamper them, but still make them think they are roughing it and having an authentic experience.


----------



## Sport Faller

Metals406 said:


> Hahaha, you should have seen me my first week in the woods. I was like, "How do you guys pack TP with ya?"
> 
> They were like, "You see any sleeves on our shirts?" LOL
> 
> Ain't nothing worse than having the berries 800' feet down, and realizing you ain't got no sleeves left! :msp_scared:



That's why you gots to wear an inexpensive undershirt for the worst case-upall night-thought a drinking contest on tuesday after work was a good call-cleanup on isle 6-scenario


----------



## stihl 440

Gologit said:


> Just fall with the lean? Man, I want a job where you work.



If your select cutting it and cutting it this way i bet it looks like F**K after your done..lol


----------



## bert0168

bitzer said:


> You cut the wedge shaped peice out of the face in front of the hinge to expose it. The lean is on the far side (opposite the siswel). By exposing the fibers of the hinge on the near side they bend instead of break when the face is closing, keeping the butt on the stump longer and allowing the top to swing to the lay. The far side is dutched off completely either before or during the process. The idea is keeping the tree on the stump long enough to pull the top from its lean to the lay. Just like with a dutchman you cut the far side off (lean side) and keep the near side intact (swing to side). Just keep the fatty hinge close to you if you get my drift. Explaining this in person is a #####, online it gets pretty abstract. Think of where the tension wood is and the compression wood is. Tension wood keeps the tree to the stump. You can see on the butt where it pulled the hinge wood from the stump.



Not abstract at all, this explains it clearly, for me anyway. :msp_thumbup:


----------



## HorseFaller

stihl 440 said:


> If your select cutting it and cutting it this way i bet it looks like F**K after your done..lol



Exactly the boss always had us take one of the shovels out to bunch the wood. Then skid it out. Pain in the ass and a waste. I finally convinced him to let me fall and buck. He noticed we didn't need the shovel to bunch and that to guys are putting out the same amount of wood as four had been. Maple does make a #####y mess anyways.


----------



## madhatte

So, this ice storm has us all scrambling to clean up the mess, and everybody has been made a deputized temporary arborist. This has given me some cool opportunities to do some tricky cuts. The video is me cutting a 40" DF between a building and a road; I used the patented DangerCat Soft Dutchman to swing it about 90 degrees from its lean. There are a couple of minutes missing here; they're on my YouTube channel if you want to see them. My crappy camera phone only films for a minute at a time. In the second video you'll see the bar pinch as the tree sits down on the steps -- I noticed that before the wedge tipped. 

[video=youtube_share;ZRhWjZEkNAE]http://youtu.be/ZRhWjZEkNAE[/video]

[video=youtube_share;VMV86cpJqwc]http://youtu.be/VMV86cpJqwc[/video]

This was a tree between a building and a tree to be kept. I used a block face to steer it more definitively. The hinge held very well, and as you can see, broke off cleanly when the faces contacted. I see that I should have used a snipe, and will next time. 

















There's lots more left to cut. I'm sure I'll have other highlights to post. Pretty good for a sissy tree nerd, huh?

EDIT: oh, and a new dent on the Skull Bucket:


----------



## bitzer

Nice work Madhatte! Its pretty damn fun watching those cuts work for ya. 

By the way, where'd you get that pretty blue cover? I cracked mine up the last time it got good and cold.


----------



## madhatte

Funny thing about the blue cover. It's at once a joke and serious business. We had one of our 260's walk off last fire season, and it was really my fault because I didn't have any kind of accounting at all other than a sharpied ID number on the bottom of the case so I'd know which saw was which. A few weeks ago, I etched up the cylinders and covers and both case halves on EVERY small engine we have. I also painted the filter covers that shade of blue -- the better to see from a distance, true, but also the better to be the same color as our tree marking paint. Ain't a pawnshop in this universe would touch one of our saws now.


----------



## paccity

cool nate, and such language from a tree faller


----------



## HorseFaller

Madhatte you need a better camera! Lol! Nice job! Your saw is louder then mine, I'm jealous. Just subscribed to your channel to.


----------



## madhatte

HorseFaller said:


> Your saw is louder then mine, I'm jealous.



Thank yez, thank yez -- that's a brand-new 660 with a DP cover, and that was its first cut! First time it's even been gassed up other than for testing before it left the shop. Had it about 4 months; between injury and demand, this was the first time in awhile I needed something that size.


----------



## Metals406

Good stuff Naterade!

On the block face, next time don't step the cut, and you can take advantage of the lower fibers as evidenced by the red arrow.

Back-cut on blue dotted line. . . Red dotted line is fiber column that will flex.

Green arrow shows fibers you want to use, as making a step just made them unnecessarily longer. I won't mention the snipe cause you already did.

Giver'er a try that'away next time and see what ya think.


----------



## hammerlogging

I take coffee into the woods for the creature comfort, and to not miss the chance for that one more cu[ during the day. makes for a much cozier ambiance. But, the thermos makes a handly storage spot for some duct tape. I got to put it to use today, that and a little piece of wood held my handle together for atleast 6 hours of full on falling and truthfully I didn't even notice a difference. Won't last, but it made me through the day without a trip to the truck or anything.

View attachment 219856


View attachment 219857


New handlebar, $143 plus shipping. 
My local dealer said " you can't get that part anymore" 
I said, "yes you can" 
He said, "let me rephrase that, I can't get that part anymore."

East coast. fooey.


----------



## Meadow Beaver

madhatte said:


> So, this ice storm has us all scrambling to clean up the mess, and everybody has been made a deputized temporary arborist. This has given me some cool opportunities to do some tricky cuts. The video is me cutting a 40" DF between a building and a road; I used the patented DangerCat Soft Dutchman to swing it about 90 degrees from its lean. There are a couple of minutes missing here; they're on my YouTube channel if you want to see them. My crappy camera phone only films for a minute at a time. In the second video you'll see the bar pinch as the tree sits down on the steps -- I noticed that before the wedge tipped.
> 
> [video=youtube_share;ZRhWjZEkNAE]http://youtu.be/ZRhWjZEkNAE[/video]
> 
> [video=youtube_share;VMV86cpJqwc]http://youtu.be/VMV86cpJqwc[/video]
> 
> This was a tree between a building and a tree to be kept. I used a block face to steer it more definitively. The hinge held very well, and as you can see, broke off cleanly when the faces contacted. I see that I should have used a snipe, and will next time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There's lots more left to cut. I'm sure I'll have other highlights to post. Pretty good for a sissy tree nerd, huh?
> 
> EDIT: oh, and a new dent on the Skull Bucket:



Blue filter cover?


----------



## Gologit

Meadow Beaver said:


> Blue filter cover?



Read post # 4043. Please.


----------



## madhatte

Metals406 said:


> making a step just made them unnecessarily longer.



What's weird is that I don't remember putting a step in there, though I obviously did. I was pretty nervous about hitting the building... which, by the way, I did today, with a big ol' sycamore. How come you guys didn't tell me those things won't swing? I wasn't even trying anything ambitious, just 20 degrees to miss the wall. It just popped the holding wood like it wasn't even there and went the way it wanted. The other sycamores I dropped after that I didn't try anything fancy at all because I was just plain annoyed with the species. You know how the Deja Vu nudie bars have that motto about "99 beautiful girls... and three ugly ones"? That was my stumps today. Props to you production fallers who do this stuff every day. This is hard work.


----------



## Gologit

madhatte said:


> What's weird is that I don't remember putting a step in there, though I obviously did. I was pretty nervous about hitting the building... which, by the way, I did today, with a big ol' sycamore. How come you guys didn't tell me those things won't swing? I wasn't even trying anything ambitious, just 20 degrees to miss the wall. It just popped the holding wood like it wasn't even there and went the way it wanted. The other sycamores I dropped after that I didn't try anything fancy at all because I was just plain annoyed with the species. You know how the Deja Vu nudie bars have that motto about "99 beautiful girls... and three ugly ones"? That was my stumps today. Props to you production fallers who do this stuff every day. This is hard work.



Having one go sideways on you helps to keep you humble. I've had days when I was so humble I probably qualified for sainthood. :msp_wink:


----------



## Metals406

madhatte said:


> What's weird is that I don't remember putting a step in there, though I obviously did.



Now, that's a shame. . . Alzheimers at such a young age.

There is a silver lining on that cloud, next year you can hide your own Easter eggs!


----------



## Gologit

Metals406 said:


> Now, that's a shame. . . Alzheimers at such a young age.
> 
> There is a silver lining on that cloud, next year you can hide your own Easter eggs!



Maybe we could get the picture of that stump blown up to poster size and Madhatte could use it as a training aid. 'Course I guess that would depend on who he was training and what he was training them to do.


----------



## paccity

wasn't that bad. at least the backcut was flat.:msp_wink:


----------



## madhatte

Buncha jokers up in this piece


----------



## HorseFaller

That reminds me Paccity. I need to get some pictures of these alders along the road here. Farmer face with a sloped back cut. The stumps look like a v. Two tipped to a side and one ripped up about six feet. No bodies or saws laying there though. It looks like when that one ripped they quit. Hopefully


----------



## bitzer

Nate- Its amazing how many sticky fingers there are in the world.

Nice fix Hammer. Its amazing how something like that can hang together and something meant to last can break so easily. 

Got the ass full yesterday pretty quickly on this one! It sure is fun when it takes two hauls for one tree. 






View attachment 219941


----------



## bitzer

Metals406 said:


> Good stuff Naterade!
> 
> On the block face, next time don't step the cut, and you can take advantage of the lower fibers as evidenced by the red arrow.
> 
> Back-cut on blue dotted line. . . Red dotted line is fiber column that will flex.
> 
> Green arrow shows fibers you want to use, as making a step just made them unnecessarily longer. I won't mention the snipe cause you already did.
> 
> Giver'er a try that'away next time and see what ya think.



Yeah, I've had it happen where if the top cut of your face is bypassed even slightly it sets the hinge back and you loose the whole bending fiber effect. I think it also has to do with how the grain is and if you bore or bust the block out. Different species take that face differently as well.


----------



## coastalfaller

hammerlogging said:


> I take coffee into the woods for the creature comfort, and to not miss the chance for that one more cu[ during the day. makes for a much cozier ambiance. But, the thermos makes a handly storage spot for some duct tape. I got to put it to use today, that and a little piece of wood held my handle together for atleast 6 hours of full on falling and truthfully I didn't even notice a difference. Won't last, but it made me through the day without a trip to the truck or anything.
> 
> View attachment 219856
> 
> 
> View attachment 219857
> 
> 
> New handlebar, $143 plus shipping.
> My local dealer said " you can't get that part anymore"
> I said, "yes you can"
> He said, "let me rephrase that, I can't get that part anymore."
> 
> East coast. fooey.



Nice old school "Rock Shox" sticker, Joe. you a mountain biker?!


----------



## Cody Colston

*Great Thread*

Hello all,

I'm not in the business. I'm only a hobbiest woodworker who occassionally cuts down a tree or two for sawing into lumber for making furniture and stuff.

I just wanted to say how much I have enjoyed this thread (I've read all of it) and how much respect I have for you timber fallers. I can identify with the hard work and the hard hat because I've been employed in the oilfield for 39 years. Although I have a pretty nice position now, I started out as a roughneck. I know what it feels like to be too tired to get undressed before falling asleep and then having to do it all over again the next day.

You men are doing honest work for (sometimes) honest pay and you seem to love what you are doing. That is really refreshing in this age of entitlements and something-for-nothing expectations. You also look pretty cool in your working attire and wielding those monster saws. :msp_smile:

I have three ~24" dbh beetle-killed Loblolly Pines that I intend to cut down for the lumber. I've already cut and milled one and I think just reading this thread will help me when I cut the others...with my little MS-250, 18" bar saw. I do intend to look up more frequently when cutting them. 

Anyway, thanks again for all the pics, videos and information here. I, too, hope that what you folks do can continue and be passed down to succeeding generations. It's truly a man's work.


----------



## RandyMac

fiber puller






:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## hammerlogging

coastalfaller said:


> Nice old school "Rock Shox" sticker, Joe. you a mountain biker?!



An old tool box from an era when I didn't get paid for exercise and kicks at the same time!

My bike is trashed right now, mostly these days the days off time is spent recovering and getting ready for more.


----------



## RandyMac

hammerlogging said:


> An old tool box from an era when I didn't get paid for exercise and kicks at the same time!
> 
> My bike is trashed right now, mostly these days the days off time is *spent recovering and getting ready for more.*




jeeze what are ya, 40?


----------



## hammerlogging

####, I've proven plenty, to myslef at least. If you want to coem grind some chains for me I'd love some more spare time.


----------



## Gologit

hammerlogging;3432408..... mostly these days the days off time is spent recovering and getting ready for more.[/QUOTE said:


> Wait.


----------



## madhatte

'Nother good day cutting. One oak I cut while a unit was in some sort of formation and when the thing hit the ground, the soldiers all cheered. Evidently they were glad to be rid of it as it was a chore to rake up after. A sergeant asked for a cookie to make a clock out of. On a couple of the pin oaks I cut today, I made like an east-coaster and cut the root flare in order to make better use of my bar length -- them hardwoods is HARD! I can sort of empathize with the short-bar crowd now. I can also see why square chisel chain isn't a top-seller over there. I could get used to this falling thing. Starting to make some stumps worth being proud of. I'm super-glad to have this board as a reference because I've used every trick anybody's ever mentioned and have seen what works and what doesn't and have had a lot of mistakes averted because I had somebody else's testimony as a warning. Also proving super useful is all the input from the midwest and east coast folks whose styles and habits are different; Douglas-fir tricks don't work on everything. My bag-o'-tricks is definitely richer for my time here.


----------



## paccity

right on nathan. the bag of knowledge is never full. :msp_thumbup:


----------



## RandyMac

hammerlogging said:


> ####, I've proven plenty, to myslef at least. If you want to coem grind some chains for me I'd love some more spare time.



easy there Hoss. Never thought different and you can grind yer own dam chain.

Like Gologit says, "wait"

I say that the sins of your youth, will be visited upon your middleage.


----------



## bitzer

RandyMac said:


> easy there Hoss. Never thought different and you can grind yer own dam chain.
> 
> Like Gologit says, "wait"
> 
> I say that the sins of your youth, will be visited upon your middleage.



You old guys and your damn nuggets of knowledge! HA! 

I was bull####ting with my trucker yesterday and told him the hardest thing I have to do during the day is get my ass out of bed! He laughed. Hes usually on the road by 3am and doesn't get home til after dark. He gets paid by the hour though.


----------



## HorseFaller

madhatte said:


> 'Nother good day cutting. One oak I cut while a unit was in some sort of formation and when the thing hit the ground, the soldiers all cheered. Evidently they were glad to be rid of it as it was a chore to rake up after. A sergeant asked for a cookie to make a clock out of. On a couple of the pin oaks I cut today, I made like an east-coaster and cut the root flare in order to make better use of my bar length -- them hardwoods is HARD! I can sort of empathize with the short-bar crowd now. I can also see why square chisel chain isn't a top-seller over there. I could get used to this falling thing. Starting to make some stumps worth being proud of. I'm super-glad to have this board as a reference because I've used every trick anybody's ever mentioned and have seen what works and what doesn't and have had a lot of mistakes averted because I had somebody else's testimony as a warning. Also proving super useful is all the input from the midwest and east coast folks whose styles and habits are different; Douglas-fir tricks don't work on everything. My bag-o'-tricks is definitely richer for my time here.



I agree completely with what you said. It is nice to have AS around. If you grind your SC try leaving a beak on the cutter( as I was told ) for hardwoods and none for your softs. Why this is idk. I do know it's harder to switch chains from species to species. I usually have an idea of what the majority is and use according chain. You do know they make bigger bars for that lovely 660 of yours. 


---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=48.798964,-122.488000


----------



## RandyMac

Isn't Pin Oak one of those trees that absorbs silica?


----------



## madhatte

HorseFaller said:


> I am here: Google Maps



I have several good friends within a mile of that location.



RandyMac said:


> Isn't Pin Oak one of those trees that absorbs silica?



My chains say "yes". Morphologically, I say "sure seems like it". Lemme ask around some and get back to you on that.


----------



## hammerlogging

RandyMac said:


> easy there Hoss. Never thought different and you can grind yer own dam chain.
> 
> Like Gologit says, "wait"
> 
> I say that the sins of your youth, will be visited upon your middleage.



I know
I know 
I lauged when I read you words. But #### you anyway you sore old bastard!


----------



## RandyMac

hammerlogging said:


> I know
> I know
> I lauged when I read you words. But #### you anyway you sore old bastard!



eat my dust puppy.


----------



## HorseFaller

Madhatte where you refering to Whatcom county?


----------



## madhatte

HorseFaller said:


> Madhatte where you refering to Whatcom county?



Yep, specifically B'Ham. For some reason my HS class (Centralia '91) had this crazy exodus there in the mid 90's and most of them still live there, within a mile or two of the location in the center of that map.


----------



## RandyMac

We may very well be moving back to Washington in the next few years. Annie is already looking at houses in the Monroe/Sultan area.


----------



## HorseFaller

madhatte said:


> Yep, specifically B'Ham. For some reason my HS class (Centralia '91) had this crazy exodus there in the mid 90's and most of them still live there, within a mile or two of the location in the center of that map.



I think I posted that at Costco. Lol. I'm about a half hour east of Bellingham towards Mt. Baker. It's funny you say that my sister in law is from Centralia. But she is like '02-'03 era.


----------



## HorseFaller

RandyMac said:


> We may very well be moving back to Washington in the next few years. Annie is already looking at houses in the Monroe/Sultan area.



Decent steelheading there. Don't think I could live there though.


---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=48.916361,-122.121283


----------



## madhatte

RandyMac said:


> We may very well be moving back to Washington in the next few years. Annie is already looking at houses in the Monroe/Sultan area.



Not a bad place to end up. The conveniences and hassles of the city are at arm's length, and lonely wanders in the Cascades are too. The desert is just over the mountains, and the beach is an easy drive... and so is Canada, should the need arise.


----------



## RandyMac

We think its a nice enough place, Sultan is about two steps up from Rio Dell, Monroe seems lively.
I'm also thinking it coming up on time to be away from the coast, geologic wise.
Cost of a house is half of what it is here, feel the need to settle in.


----------



## slowp

Just go in with eyes open. There are traffic backups on highway 2 on the weekends. The area is a playground for the city folks. 

I'll stay here. We are the optimum distance from both Portland and Seattle. There are nicer play areas that are a quicker drive for them. We do get a lot of Tacomiacs here though. 

Yesterday was just like this, but with more skiers because it was Friday. 






View attachment 220206


----------



## coastalfaller

hammerlogging said:


> An old tool box from an era when I didn't get paid for exercise and kicks at the same time!
> 
> My bike is trashed right now, mostly these days the days off time is spent recovering and getting ready for more.



I hear ya. My story is much the same. Mine is still sitting in my garage under layers of dust! I keep threatening every year to get it out, kids are getting older now and starting to be able to ride their bikes pretty good, so we may make some forays out of the driveway this year!


----------



## bitzer

coastalfaller said:


> I hear ya. My story is much the same. Mine is still sitting in my garage under layers of dust! I keep threatening every year to get it out, kids are getting older now and starting to be able to ride their bikes pretty good, so we may make some forays out of the driveway this year!



Its funny, I'm waitin on my kids to get a little older to get to doing some of the stuff I used to do, fishing, hunting, etc... I was trying to get my oldest to hit a trail with me last summer. She chickened out when she saw the hills. Not quite there yet.


----------



## coastalfaller

bitzer said:


> Its funny, I'm waitin on my kids to get a little older to get to doing some of the stuff I used to do, fishing, hunting, etc... I was trying to get my oldest to hit a trail with me last summer. She chickened out when she saw the hills. Not quite there yet.



Haha! Yep, same here. Pretty cool though to watch them as they grow, we add more stuff to our repertoire of activities every year!


----------



## Cedarkerf

HorseFaller said:


> I think I posted that at Costco. Lol. I'm about a half hour east of Bellingham towards Mt. Baker. It's funny you say that my sister in law is from Centralia. But she is like '02-'03 era.


Our kids lived out in Maple falls for a few years beautiful area even if a bit on the damp side.


----------



## HorseFaller

Cedarkerf said:


> Our kids lived out in Maple falls for a few years beautiful area even if a bit on the damp side.



That's right where I am. 


---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=48.848071,-122.541203


----------



## Joe46

RandyMac said:


> We may very well be moving back to Washington in the next few years. Annie is already looking at houses in the Monroe/Sultan area.



Nice areas Randy, but seen a lot of growth in the last 20years. Kinda become bedroom communities for Seattle. Cederkerf lives in a nice area, but gets a tad breezy at times.


----------



## madhatte

slowp said:


>



You know you're from Western Washington when... you can tell where a picture was taken by the view of Mt Rainier. 

"Oh, Little Tahoma is on the right, must be out by White Pass somewhere."


----------



## RandyMac

Annie and I did a flyby to see Brian and Janimay, nice area, old mill site.
I have 6 years to get my 20 in, but will relocate when the opportunity arises.
There are quite a few little old houses that fit our price range.


----------



## Gologit

RandyMac said:


> Annie and I did a flyby to see Brian and Janimay, nice area, old mill site.
> I have 6 years to get my 20 in, but will relocate when the opportunity arises.
> There are quite a few little old houses that fit our price range.



Deserter.


----------



## slowp

Better be slapping mud on your license plates.....oh, wait. I'd guess that 50% of our population moved here from "there" and you'll fit right in! 

Be aware of where the flood plain is, and where the sun shines.


----------



## RandyMac

Gologit said:


> Deserter.



Ha ha ha
Its getting too expensive to live in California, Gov. Sunshine is going to tax us into the poorhouse.
We can buy the same moldy old house in WA, for less than rent here. 
Besides, the Triple Junction has been sitting with clenched fangs for too long, we are over due.


----------



## slowp

Well, if you want the ambience of a depressed timber town, Morton is the place. It tried to go upscale with a cigar and wine store, but that failed. It tried to go lower, with a dollar store, but that failed. You can still buy rigging clothes at the hardware store and at the feed store. Two mills are still operating. Beware of the areas that flood, and of limited sunlight close to the big hill that blocks the sun on the south side of town.

1 Bedroom Morton Homes for Sale and Real Estate - Realtor.com®

I think Morton is down to two cops now. There's also a medical waste incinerator. Yuckers. 
In our neck of the woods, we can still burn slash and do other bad things.


----------



## Greystoke

Isn't Woods Logging Supply gone now from Morton?


----------



## Jacob J.

RandyMac said:


> Ha ha ha
> Its getting too expensive to live in California, Gov. Sunshine is going to tax us into the poorhouse.
> We can buy the same moldy old house in WA, for less than rent here.
> Besides, the Triple Junction has been sitting with clenched fangs for too long, we are over due.



I looked into the Amboy/Yacolt area when I was offered a job up there with the railroad. Very reasonable pricing
on houses and land. I went up to visit sawbones not long ago in Sultan and the traffic was terrible. I made
the mistake of being on Highway 2 on a Saturday.


----------



## Cedarkerf

Yup. They have a big shop in longview its a Husky and riggen dealer, and a smaller Stihl dealer in Sedro Wooley


----------



## slowp

tarzanstree said:


> Isn't Woods Logging Supply gone now from Morton?



Yet another empty building. I think, anyway. I haven't looked at it lately. The good news is that there is a movie theater. They also do plays there, so if you have a yen for acting or singing, you can do that. There is a gym, although that building or business is for sale. The appliance store went out of business right when I wanted to buy appliances, locally. The thrift store does a booming business. The computer/internet business seems to be sticking as are the two grocery stores. There are a couple of bars--the one that tried to attract the motorcycle crowd went out of business. I think it is for sale? I'll have to cruise Morton for an update one of these days. It doesn't take long to do. 

I try to think of something. There are lots of empty buildings to use. But I fail. I do not know what the fate will be of the liquor store. They are supposed to be privatised soon. 

Morton has no library. That is a sad thing.

The heli-loggers most of whom were from Montana and Idaho pointed out that the town looked poor and desolate until you drove by the hospital. There were shiny new cars and pickups parked in that area.

But we do grow nice trees in this part of the state. And if Randy and Annie moved to downtown Morton, we could park at their house, go get likkered up during Jubilee, and camp out in their yard!


----------



## Eccentric

slowp said:


> Yet another empty building. I think, anyway. I haven't looked at it lately. *The good news is that there is a movie theater. They also do plays there, so if you have a yen for acting or singing, you can do that.* There is a gym, although that building or business is for sale. The appliance store went out of business right when I wanted to buy appliances, locally. The thrift store does a booming business. The computer/internet business seems to be sticking as are the two grocery stores. There are a couple of bars--the one that tried to attract the motorcycle crowd went out of business. I think it is for sale? I'll have to cruise Morton for an update one of these days. It doesn't take long to do.
> 
> I try to think of something. There are lots of empty buildings to use. But I fail. I do not know what the fate will be of the liquor store. They are supposed to be privatised soon.
> 
> Morton has no library. That is a sad thing.
> 
> The heli-loggers most of whom were from Montana and Idaho pointed out that the town looked poor and desolate until you drove by the hospital. There were shiny new cars and pickups parked in that area.
> 
> *But we do grow nice trees in this part of the state. And if Randy and Annie moved to downtown Morton, we could park at their house, go get likkered up during Jubilee, and camp out in their yard!*



Camping out at the RandyMac compound would be cool. He'd probably make us go watch him perform in his adaptation of H.M.S. Pinafore at the local theater though....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.M.S._Pinafore


----------



## madhatte

Today's lessons so far (it's lunch time): 1) not all trees will swing, no matter how much you curse at them 2) a yellow wedge (loader) beats a green one every time 3) yeah, I AM scared of a few little rocks, and no, I'm NOT gonna flush-cut that stump with my saw, because maintaining the bar and chain is MY problem.


----------



## slowp

I don't know whether I've been falling or pruning or arboristing or what. I have had an alder that was rubbing on the roof of the shop. Well, it isn't anymore. I did it the hard way. I wanted to hear. I took my orchard style hand run pole pruner and went to work. I cut it up as high as I could, and the thing broke part way and settled. We're talking small alder, probably 6 inches at that point. So, I cut lower figuring the thing would barberchair, I'm on the end of the pole where I think it is safe. It won't barberchair!I keep sawing and finally, a slow split starts and stops. I have to pull and jump, repeat. Finally, it cooperated and rolled off the roof and now I have a mess to whack up, but I'll use the Barbie Saw. 

Now, are we supposed to wear chaps when operating a hand powered pole pruner? :msp_rolleyes:


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> I don't know whether I've been falling or pruning or arboristing or what. I have had an alder that was rubbing on the roof of the shop. Well, it isn't anymore. I did it the hard way. I wanted to hear. I took my orchard style hand run pole pruner and went to work. I cut it up as high as I could, and the thing broke part way and settled. We're talking small alder, probably 6 inches at that point. So, I cut lower figuring the thing would barberchair, I'm on the end of the pole where I think it is safe. It won't barberchair!I keep sawing and finally, a slow split starts and stops. I have to pull and jump, repeat. Finally, it cooperated and rolled off the roof and now I have a mess to whack up, but I'll use the Barbie Saw.
> 
> Now, are we supposed to wear chaps when operating a hand powered pole pruner? :msp_rolleyes:



Probably not. But if you're doing the "pull and jump" and rolling things off of the roof you might want to invest in one of those fancy Roger Ramjet Space Cadet arborist hardhats.


----------



## slowp

No thank you. I did dump some small alders, then had to saw limbs off The Used Dog's back scratch tree. I'm cleaning up and making the area more packrat unfriendly. I am finding wonderful things underneath the brush. More trailer siding, I think, a tire, and the usual rotting timbers. The tire will make a good thing to grow something in on my rockpile. 

The saws, both manual and mechanized were calling out to be used today. I hope they do the same tomorrow.


----------



## madhatte

So now they want me to bump the knots flush? Geeze. It's not like all these trees are gonna end up as anything but firewood. Coincidentally, some of the (non-native) landscape trees have a NICE log or two in 'em. Red oaks have especially nice grain. Fingers crossed we can figure out some way to deck 'em and sell 'em.


----------



## slowp

Sounds like you have too many experts around.

There is a company that buys different hardwoods. I can't remember the name. I think they have three small mills, one near you? They were at the GOL class. 

They make special order stuff, like display tables for Nordstrom.


----------



## madhatte

I'm thinking Keinholtz out of Graham, or Northwest Hardwoods out of Centralia.


----------



## madhatte

RandyMac said:


> fiber puller



Am not!


----------



## slowp

madhatte said:


> I'm thinking Keinholtz out of Graham, or Northwest Hardwoods out of Centralia.



I think it is Keinholtz. It is not Northwest Hardwoods.


----------



## madhatte

Really diggin' those red oaks. Very well-behaved on the stump and gorgeous wood:


----------



## slowp

Have you gone to the dark side and started using a "limbing saw" yet? :msp_ohmy:


----------



## Gologit

madhatte said:


> So now they want me to bump the knots flush? Geeze.



Yup...no pig ears. Some darn forester must have grumbled at you, eh? Hehehehehehe...welcome to my world. Now, quit whining and get back to work.


----------



## bitzer

Nice work Nate! Your red oaks are a little less red than mine. They will do most things you tell them to do. Until you get into the real big sweeping sobs. Thats when they start giving me the finger.


----------



## mingo

bitzer said:


> Nice work Nate! Your red oaks are a little less red than mine. They will do most things you tell them to do. Until you get into the real big sweeping sobs. Thats when they start giving me the finger.



I noticed that too, and they have more sap wood than ours.


----------



## madhatte

slowp said:


> Have you gone to the dark side and started using a "limbing saw" yet? :msp_ohmy:



Pfft. 440 with a 28" is a GREAT limbing saw.



Gologit said:


> Some darn forester must have grumbled at you, eh?



But... but... but...



bitzer said:


> Until you get into the real big sweeping sobs. Thats when they start giving me the finger.



Put one of those down Saturday with my first attempt at a siswheel. Took it a bit to swing around (not tall, long limbs) but landed right where I wanted it to. Buoyed by that success, I tried to swing one yesterday and the damn thing wouldn't budge. Ended up having the loader bump it. Oh, yeah, it swung just right under hydraulic pressure. All of the other red oaks I've put down have been a snap. The ones I'm really disliking are the sycamores -- very heavy, wet, and hard. Not pulpy like cottonwoods, which is nice, but still plenty brittle. I'm guessing their fibers are really short. 

Put down a DF today which was right up against the HQ building for some brigade or other. The stem was right outside of the front office. Evidently it had been busting windows in strong winds for years. A junior officer of some flavor or other watched us work, chin on hands on elbows on windowsill. Obviously dude was thinking he'd rather be out working with us than doing whatever his job was. I know for sure I spent many of my Navy days wishing for the outdoors. I waved to him when we left the site. I'm not sure he'd noticed that he'd been spotted, as he seemed surprised, but he did wave back.


----------



## bitzer

madhatte said:


> Put one of those down Saturday with my first attempt at a siswheel. Took it a bit to swing around (not tall, long limbs) but landed right where I wanted it to. Buoyed by that success, I tried to swing one yesterday and the damn thing wouldn't budge. Ended up having the loader bump it. Oh, yeah, it swung just right under hydraulic pressure. All of the other red oaks I've put down have been a snap. The ones I'm really disliking are the sycamores -- very heavy, wet, and hard. Not pulpy like cottonwoods, which is nice, but still plenty brittle. I'm guessing their fibers are really short.



I've never cut a sycamore. Just dutch em till they sit down. They'll move somewhere. Hehe. Maybe a double kicker face? Brittle wood just needs more subtlety to keep them on the stump.


----------



## madhatte

bitzer said:


> Brittle wood just needs more subtlety to keep them on the stump.



I'll try chocolate and whispers next time.


----------



## Sport Faller

madhatte said:


> I'll try chocolate and whispers next time.



Don't forget the "sweet nothings" they'll stand there like a trained horse :msp_tongue:


----------



## cpr

Jacob J. said:


> I went up to visit sawbones not long ago in Sultan...



Thanks for IDing that "795" :hmm3grin2orange:.


----------



## slowp

*My Big Tree of the Day*

My hardwood. I am getting rid of future problem trees. I am always amazed when the tree goes in the direction I intend it to go. I've sent a few small alders onto the woodpile now. The woodpile is better to hit than the woodshed. 





The background view today.





The stump. I have a hard time multi-thinking. Gots to think about where to send it, how far in for the undercut, then keeping the saw level. The latter is very hard to do.





Don't pee on the Barbie Saw please. :redface:





View attachment 221188
View attachment 221185
View attachment 221186
View attachment 221187


----------



## HorseFaller

At least you won't have to pack the wood far.


----------



## Gologit

*Skidder*

You need to make a little harness for the Used Dog, find some small chokers, and he can yard some of the wood while you're cutting. Hey, you might even get to be on AxMen...Dog Logging! :msp_wink:


----------



## slowp

Gologit said:


> You need to make a little harness for the Used Dog, find some small chokers, and he can yard some of the wood while you're cutting. Hey, you might even get to be on AxMen...Dog Logging! :msp_wink:



He would skid it to his lair under the porch. That's where he packed the firewood to instead of on TOP of the porch.


----------



## RandyMac

bitzer said:


> I've never cut a sycamore. Just dutch em till they sit down. They'll move somewhere. Hehe. Maybe a double kicker face? Brittle wood just needs more subtlety to keep them on the stump.



You ought to come out West and play with Madrones. They are the dammedest things, no bark, seems to be all sapwood, unless it is hollow. If you read it wrong, setting back is the least problem, they don't hold wood very well and tear off the stump, but they do barberchair well. They are top heavy, big limbs, twisted all over. My Grandad called them "macaroni" trees.
Yeah, Madrones are in my top 5 favorites.


----------



## mile9socounty

RandyMac said:


> If you read it wrong, setting back is the least problem, they don't hold wood very well and tear off the stump, but they do barberchair well.



Dont forget they grow to the sunlight. Or the pistol grip butts that like to rock up and try to get ya. 

Best memory of a madrone was catching a butt of an 11" tree smack dab in the face. Had a good face, back cut, read the lean right and everything. The oak it was suspose to clear through thought different. Shot it straight back.


----------



## Rounder

Left the stroker a present.

View attachment 221583

View attachment 221584

View attachment 221585


Hope you all had a good, safe week - Sam


----------



## Metals406

mtsamloggit said:


> Left the stroker a present.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hope you all had a good, safe week - Sam



*Damn! You weren't kidding about mistletoed fir!!*


----------



## Greystoke

mtsamloggit said:


> Left the stroker a present.
> 
> View attachment 221583
> 
> View attachment 221584
> 
> View attachment 221585
> 
> 
> Hope you all had a good, safe week - Sam



I worked for an old Montany logger one time that would set fire to those before we fell them. Of course we did not have a stroker  I have worked up many a gnarly fir, and that little trick helped a bunch...only in Winter of course though.


----------



## Rounder

I think the FS forester might pee a little if I were to light one on fire. It is tempting. Particularly with the dead piss fir.


----------



## slowp

I used to torch them off. We'd be traipsing through the woods with a drip torch and I'd light them. The fire guy would get mad, but I told him I was doing stand improvement.


----------



## Greystoke

mtsamloggit said:


> I think the FS forester might pee a little if I were to light one on fire. It is tempting. Particularly with the dead piss fir.



Oh yes, I forget how times have changed. BTW, That hunk of jim bea....oh, I mean, I beam is sittin out for you :msp_smile:


----------



## Rounder

tarzanstree said:


> Oh yes, I forget how times have changed. BTW, That hunk of jim bea....oh, I mean, I beam is sittin out for you :msp_smile:



Yeah, only single malt for me.......Good deal, I was going to snag some more chain from you as well, give you a call in the AM.


----------



## paccity

Metals406 said:


> *Damn! You weren't kidding about mistletoed fir!!*


damn shrubbery. doesn't look like your snowed out yet.


----------



## bitzer

madhatte said:


> I'll try chocolate and whispers next time.



You're gettin the idea. Long walks in the park. The ice cream social. Barry White to take the mood up a notch....


----------



## bitzer

RandyMac said:


> You ought to come out West and play with Madrones. They are the dammedest things, no bark, seems to be all sapwood, unless it is hollow. If you read it wrong, setting back is the least problem, they don't hold wood very well and tear off the stump, but they do barberchair well. They are top heavy, big limbs, twisted all over. My Grandad called them "macaroni" trees.
> Yeah, Madrones are in my top 5 favorites.



That sounds like my kinda wood. Big, ugly, limby. Tough to read. Great for production!
Didn't you and your brother try to chop one big ugly mother down one time?


----------



## Metals406

paccity said:


> damn shrubbery. doesn't look like your snowed out yet.



Fraz, we ain't got squat for snow this year, and now the weather guessers are saying seasonal temps and "dry" this month. If we don't have a wet spring or summer. . . We'z gonna burn.

Oh well, Cody needs the good money out fallin' on fires. . . If they won't let us log it, we might as well let it nuke and have guys make money "fighting" the fires.


----------



## lfnh

Metals406 said:


> Fraz, we ain't got squat for snow this year, and now the weather guessers are saying seasonal temps and "dry" this month. If we don't have a wet spring or summer. . . We'z gonna burn.
> 
> Oh well, Cody needs the good money out fallin' on fires. . . *If they won't let us log it, we might as well let it nuke and have guys make money "fighting" the fires*.



Try this on.

For the stop logging cases and appeals, the Plantiffs *and *their Contributors get a due and payable bill for the Retail Value of the timber products lost or damaged directly or indirectly from fire. Cash. No Checks. No write offs.

Have a nice day.


----------



## forestryworks

We need less reactive management and *more proactive management*. All that money spent on "fighting" fires can easily pay for thinning and fuels reduction projects.

The more you thin and burn during El Nino years, the better off you'll be in La Nina years.

Besides, Mother Nature puts out fires anyways.


----------



## mile9socounty

mtsamloggit said:


> Left the stroker a present.
> 
> View attachment 221583
> 
> View attachment 221584
> 
> View attachment 221585
> 
> 
> Hope you all had a good, safe week - Sam



Holy grouse ladder!!! :eek2:


----------



## Cody Colston

forestryworks said:


> Besides, Mother Nature puts out fires anyways.



I've got a question about that statement. Granted, down here we only hear about the large, sensational fires like Yellowstone, but it doesn't appear that firefighting is very effective on western fires. It seems that in spite of all the money and effort expended, they usually burn themselves out when conditions dictate it and not before.

Just how effective are the fire fighting efforts? When I see video showing one of those crown fires being whipped along by 30-40 mph winds, I wonder how anything could stop it.

I'm ready for El Nino to return, too. It not only keeps hurricane activity down (I work in the GoM) but brings us more rain. We are still dry here in E.T.

Edit In: Here's a pic of the dead Pine I dropped with my little MS-250. I bucked it into five 10' logs and will haul them to the sawyer in a couple of days. I'm clearing out some smaller stuff now preparing to fall another dead Pine.

View attachment 221746


----------



## lfnh

Can't remember the exact ratio loss of timber value in fire salvage but they're litigation and court decisions (esp from 9th circuit) sure have not taken any of that into consideration, nevermind the cost of fire.

Proactive management is an opportunity. The other extreme is let'er'burn. And given the fuel loading that's gone un-managed for decades that would be resource decimation as things stand now.


----------



## Metals406

Cody Colston said:


> I've got a question about that statement. Granted, down here we only hear about the large, sensational fires like Yellowstone, but it doesn't appear that firefighting is very effective on western fires. It seems that in spite of all the money and effort expended, they usually burn themselves out when conditions dictate it and not before.
> 
> Just how effective are the fire fighting efforts? When I see video showing one of those crown fires being whipped along by 30-40 mph winds, I wonder how anything could stop it.
> 
> I'm ready for El Nino to return, too. It not only keeps hurricane activity down (I work in the GoM) but brings us more rain. We are still dry here in E.T.
> 
> Edit In: Here's a pic of the dead Pine I dropped with my little MS-250. I bucked it into five 10' logs and will haul them to the sawyer in a couple of days. I'm clearing out some smaller stuff now preparing to fall another dead Pine.
> 
> View attachment 221746



You have to understand, fires make money. There's no reason for them not to let fires run out of hand.

Certain "procedures" almost guarantee most fires will grow to a few thousand acres. The ones kept down to an acre or less, sure do make for good PR. 

It's the same reason cancers' aren't "cured". . . There's too much money at steak for "treatment".


----------



## lfnh

No question that more immediate money (one shot deal) is made on fire (suppression, containment, all out fighting, regen).

But not over the long haul.

Unless of course there are no more mills to take the timber or China drops the loaded value to 1 red cent Mbf.


----------



## madhatte

lfnh said:


> Unless of course there are no more mills to take the timber or China drops the loaded value to 1 red cent Mbf.



Uggh, that's a grim reality. Of course, there'll always be asses need wiped, and no market fluctuation or paperless office can cut that market out.


----------



## lfnh

madhatte said:


> Uggh, that's a grim reality. Of course, there'll always be asses need wiped, and no market fluctuation or paperless office can cut that market out.



Good point.

Maybe timber sale should be re-named to pulp sales for TP ?

Be interesting to read Plantiff's arguments and court rulings on those sales.


----------



## slowp

I have seen the size and intensity of fires grow while timber harvest has dropped. I think there is a correlation there, but since I'm not a scientist, it doesn't matter. 

My theory? In the olden days, (prior to the 1990s) there were lots of bodies out in the woods every day. Bodies with fire tools. We used to have "smokechaser" packs in our pickups on one district I worked on. 
If there was a lightning bust, you were sent up to a spot where you could look for smokes. Then you were likely to be told to go put it out. 

The timber harvest plummeted, so did the budgets for the Forest Service. The fire folks got attention after the Yellowstone fiasco, and got more money. Kingdoms were built. However, there were less bodies in the woods with fire tools. You then had some deaths on fires--Storm King. There was a lawsuit after the deaths at Thirtymile. There was an arrest due to Thirtymile of a crewboss. The Forest Service did not show any inkling of backing up the people involved. Suddenly, if you were going to be in the fire organization in any leadership role, you were told to get liability insurance on your own. 

I sometimes get the feeling that maybe the current fire folks are over cautious. They have good reason to be that way though. Maybe we were crazy to do some of the stuff we did before Storm King. Who knows.

Another of my theories is that we used to be able to salvage log the insect and disease killed trees. We had some huge sales of bug killed and dying lodgepole. The environmental groups turned salvage into a dirty word and anytime you put the word Salvage in the name or as the purpose of a timber sale, it was a red flag for appeals and lawsuits. So, where we used to get at least parts of those areas cleaned up and some spots made where fires could be slowed down, we can't do that anymore. Now you have acres upon acres of dead lodgepole waiting to go up in smoke. 

Yet another factor? Decommissioned roads. In the olden days, roads were good things. They got you into the areas where the fires started fast. Now roads are being torn up because the budget does not allow for maintainance. Plus, it is a trade off. The enviros will sue about road density. The forest plan or transportation plan calls for a certain % of the acreage in roads. That can't be exceeded. So, if an area requires new road construction to access the timber, old roads must be decommissioned. 

Decommissioning is pulling out or smashing the culverts, removing fill and sidecast, and blocking the road off. Our area had a fire in an area where there WAS a road that went right to it. It showed up on old maps.
But, it was decommissioned so smokejumpers had to jump on it. They complained that it was too steep in that area, were pulled off, and the fire was left to burn and be watched. It didn't do much but had the potential to burn up a valley with homes if conditions had changed. Meanwhile, we had yurts with airconditioning set up on our compound, a little helicopter and the big Columbia Chinook sitting for a few days in the former horse pasture. (The horse budget was cut years ago.) Our district got to keep the airconditioners. :rolleyes2:

Now that we have big fires, big money must be spent in bringing in crews and helicopters and air tankers or the population that is nearest the fire will complain that not enough effort is being made to combat the fire.
Even if the air tankers do no good, if they don't show up and make air drops, the local congressional representative will get phone calls demanding air support.

It is so %$#&* political, we're lucky we have any forest left. 

That's my take on the matter.


----------



## chucker

!! SLOWPETE!! ? could you "please" tell me if you know if the vernonia, oregon fire tower/camp still exists?? i spent my 15th an 16th summer birthdays working up there under the head (usf) forester burford hayes out of columbia city ore. thank you!


----------



## lfnh

Well written and says it all, imo.

Add this: The fuel load mapping and a goodly number of old fire access roads and loggings roads that i put on field maps 20 yrs ago were transcribed to Archeology maps and the field maps disposed. The reasoning was historical preservation record but not to be used for future fire or timber harvest.
Go figure that one.


----------



## 056 kid

madhatte said:


> Am not!



Where did you find a hickory?


----------



## madhatte

056 kid said:


> Where did you find a hickory?



Landscape tree. The top was a busted-up mess after the ice storm. That thing did NOT want to go over. I had so many wedges stacked in there it looked like a Dagwood sandwich. Lift, pound, lift, pound, lather, rinse, repeat. When it finally tipped it was in slow motion. It hit the ground like a feather. You can see my hinge -- I cut it thinner and thinner hoping it would let go but it just didn't. Is that normal?

In other news: I just attended a memorial service for one of my old contract bosses. It was weird seeing some of those people again, my old crew from the Oregon days 15 years ago. Beards are greyer but otherwise everybody pretty much looks the same. Hopefully I'll be able to stay in better touch now that I've seen 'em all again.


----------



## forestryworks

Hickory might as well be made out of rubber.


----------



## Gologit

Would that hickory be worth saving to make some handles?


----------



## 056 kid

Yea you would have been fine with a little 1/8'' strip of holding wood on a hickory like that. I personally like jumping them off the stump, not as accurate, but less hassle in the long run. On the rare I would get into real pretty, clear straight trees that acted much more brittle, and twice as ####ing hard. . 
I would say that hickory would be worth making handles out of.


----------



## madhatte

Tryin' to get the powers-that-be to sell this stuff to specialty mills. We'll see what comes of it. I will be seriously pissed if it all goes to firewood.


----------



## lfnh

madhatte said:


> Tryin' to get the powers-that-be to sell this stuff to specialty mills. We'll see what comes of it. I will be seriously pissed if it all goes to firewood.



File up a ripping chain and freehand up a couple of 5-6 ft cants for some good peavy handles later out of slabs. Lotta times ants bore the heck out of it.


----------



## bitzer

Yep, cut them hickories up tight. Make sure you're not below your hinge at all either in the back. They don't like that. If its going over really slow and you can get back in there do some more sawing or get the hell out. It will split out before the face closes sure as ####. I had one cut up super tight about a week ago. Even with some extra deep snipe action I still got a little splitting of the butt going on. The only thing I could figure from looking at the stump was that my back cut was just a touch low and caused it to stall.


----------



## RandyMac

bitzer said:


> That sounds like my kinda wood. Big, ugly, limby. Tough to read. Great for production!
> Didn't you and your brother try to chop one big ugly mother down one time?



Ya, a near death experience. I might get the notion to activate the spider on that one.


----------



## madhatte

lfnh said:


> File up a ripping chain and freehand up a couple of 5-6 ft cants for some good peavy handles later out of slabs. Lotta times ants bore the heck out of it.



Might just, at that... if I can find it in the pile.


----------



## RandyMac

madhatte said:


> Might just, at that... if I can find it in the pile.



no problem Nate, just look for empty holes in the buttlog.


----------



## slowp

RandyMac said:


> no problem Nate, just look for empty holes in the buttlog.



Aren't you supposed to pat some mud on that end so the holes don't show?


----------



## RandyMac

slowp said:


> Aren't you supposed to pat some mud on that end so the holes don't show?



Yup


----------



## OregonSawyer

RandyMac said:


> Ya, a near death experience. I might get the notion to activate the spider on that one.



Do it!


----------



## Rounder

Haircut I've been working on for the past little while...just gotta take a little more off the top....

View attachment 224093


Not where I'd want to walk a yarder, sheet of ice when they did.

View attachment 224094


Nice Views

View attachment 224096


-Sam


----------



## Metals406

mtsamloggit said:


> Haircut I've been working on for the past little while...just gotta take a little more off the top....
> 
> View attachment 224093
> 
> 
> Not where I'd want to walk a yarder, sheet of ice when they did.
> 
> View attachment 224094
> 
> 
> Nice Views
> 
> View attachment 224096
> 
> 
> -Sam



Sam, that's some ugly ground! The kind of ground that makes my thighs burn just looking at it!


----------



## M-tooth

Gologit said:


> Tree pathologist? Oh great, I just invented another form of 'ologist.:taped:



This is a pretty old post but I had to haha, I believe the word you seek is Silviculturist


----------



## madhatte

M-tooth said:


> This is a pretty old post but I had to haha, I believe the word you seek is Silviculturist



Naw, Silviculturists grow 'em. Pathologists autopsy 'em when they die. I know a couple of excellent forest pathologists. I tug on their coats a lot when I don't recognize something.


----------



## M-tooth

madhatte said:


> Naw, Silviculturists grow 'em. Pathologists autopsy 'em when they die. I know a couple of excellent forest pathologists. I tug on their coats a lot when I don't recognize something.



Must be a lot of money to toss around if you guys have specific "forest pathologists" wherever you are. Any forester or silviculturist worth his salt should be able to diagnose the majority of tree diseases


----------



## Brenda666

Great pictures Cody. Those capture S.E. ground really well. Another thing that tells you about S.E. Ak. You don't see skidders anywhere.
Thats a good shot of your friend with the springboard in the big spruce.


----------



## madhatte

M-tooth said:


> Must be a lot of money to toss around if you guys have specific "forest pathologists" wherever you are.



Hardly. They're a rare breed and usually cover a lot of ground. It's not so much about just IDing diseases and bugs and stuff, but figuring out what to do about it, at the landscape level. I have a lot of respect for those folks.


----------



## M-tooth

madhatte said:


> Hardly. They're a rare breed and usually cover a lot of ground. It's not so much about just IDing diseases and bugs and stuff, but figuring out what to do about it, at the landscape level. I have a lot of respect for those folks.



Certainly, a lot of peoples livelihoods rest upon those guys decisions. From my experience it's not the diseases that are too much of a problem, as there are generally alternate hosts which are easy enough to eliminate, but it's the bugs that can be extremely hard to manage for. Big one here is the white pine weavil and there is some fairly new regulations regarding the transportation of firewood due to the threat of emerald ash borer. White pine blister rust, a fungal disease has not been a problem since about the 50's 60's here as it's alternate host, gooseberry has been mostly exterminated. I know of several WP stands here.. about 5 years old, that are some kind of WP weavil resistant gene strand. I believe it's mostly an experiment but it will save a lot of loss if it can be perfected. This is all from Penobscot county Maine where I currently reside.


----------



## madhatte

M-tooth said:


> White pine blister rust



The main research on that resistance is done by the USFS Dorena research site in OR. I've been in contact with them lately regarding some plantations of ours. The history and understanding they have of this stuff is amazing.


----------



## M-tooth

madhatte said:


> The main research on that resistance is done by the USFS Dorena research site in OR. I've been in contact with them lately regarding some plantations of ours. The history and understanding they have of this stuff is amazing.



Extremely smart people, I believe most loggers would much rather try to explain their operation to a forest ranger than one of these guys when they get a call regarding a previous harvest site.


----------



## hammerlogging

Hey Madhatte- hickory is a tough one, even this one managed to pull a fiber or two-

View attachment 224495


Sam, that hair cut looks a lot like jammer logging in WV did. Does the yearder run on each of those benches? Did you all doze those benches or are they from previous logging?

View attachment 224496


----------



## bitzer

Nice pics Sam! I'd like to cut on some real slopes sometime. The hills I have worked I can make more fun things happen. 

I had a nice tight hickory stump all ready from last week and my old phone took a crap. Ah well. When they start going over slow its either run in there and cut or get the hell out and watch them split.

First stump of the day the other morning. Some light wedging. Everything is getting a snipe lately. It was a productive day.





Red oak leaning hard into hard leaning white oak. Faced the white then back cut and flushed up wedges in the red. Face that up and wedged a little more. Came back to the white and bored the #####. I left a little plug because there was some dead #### hanging about head high out of the white and I had to jump over a couple of logs behind me to bail. Worked out.






Add: that branch perpendicular to the white was the dead ####. Just realized where it ended up.

View attachment 224498

View attachment 224499


----------



## madhatte

hammerlogging said:


> Hey Madhatte- hickory is a tough one, even this one managed to pull a fiber or two



Huh. Sure surprised me when I had two pairs of wedges stacked and it was just sitting there. We don't have any wood that acts like that around here. It's reassuring to know that it's not just me.


----------



## mingo

bitzer said:


> Nice pics Sam! I'd like to cut on some real slopes sometime. The hills I have worked I can make more fun things happen.
> 
> I had a nice tight hickory stump all ready from last week and my old phone took a crap. Ah well. When they start going over slow its either run in there and cut or get the hell out and watch them split.
> 
> First stump of the day the other morning. Some light wedging. Everything is getting a snipe lately. It was a productive day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Red oak leaning hard into hard leaning white oak. Faced the white then back cut and flushed up wedges in the red. Face that up and wedged a little more. Came back to the white and bored the #####. I left a little plug because there was some dead #### hanging about head high out of the white and I had to jump over a couple of logs behind me to bail. Worked out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Add: that branch perpendicular to the white was the dead ####. Just realized where it ended up.
> 
> View attachment 224498
> 
> View attachment 224499



Nice looking stump.


----------



## Driver625

View attachment 224688
View attachment 224689
View attachment 224690
View attachment 224691


Some pics from today. One of them I had to stack wedges. First time doing that, kept it off the wires anyway. Really had to work on that one. Figured I sit and think a minute. Disclaimer- I'm a truck driver with a chainsaw and that's all. My axe was the victim of a big swing and bad aim, spider monkey on Mountain Dew style. Got a new handle and another axe. Should have a spare anyway. I did wear a hardhat. It's on the ground behind the tree I'm sitting on.


----------



## slowp

Driver625;3489026
[I said:


> Disclaimer- I'm a truck driver with a chainsaw and that's all[/I]. .



According to Hooktender Keith, that makes you a faller.


----------



## Rounder

hammerlogging said:


> Hey Madhatte- hickory is a tough one, even this one managed to pull a fiber or two-
> 
> View attachment 224495
> 
> 
> Sam, that hair cut looks a lot like jammer logging in WV did. Does the yearder run on each of those benches? Did you all doze those benches or are they from previous logging?
> 
> View attachment 224496



All pre-existing road Joe, save for a few excaline trails. Most of the face was originaly cat logged when operators were men (nuts!).


----------



## bitzer

mingo said:


> Nice looking stump.



Thanks! Yeah I tell ya that first tree of the day really seems to set the pace for me. If its a ##### then usually the day is. Ya gotta win one once in a while right?


----------



## Rounder

View attachment 225557

View attachment 225558



Getting a few decent ones. Always look nice in the road.


----------



## Greenwedge

slowp said:


> According to Hooktender Keith, that makes you a faller.



Funny Slowp. lol


----------



## Metals406

Greenwedge said:


> Funny Slowp. lol



Hey ya rascal!!

How bout some pics of your little operation?


----------



## Greenwedge

slowp said:


> According to Hooktender Keith, that makes you a faller.



My wife acts like a hooktender for a few days each and every month.


----------



## Metals406

mtsamloggit said:


> View attachment 225557
> 
> View attachment 225558
> 
> 
> 
> Getting a few decent ones. Always look nice in the road.



Sam, Pondy's don't count. :yoyo:


----------



## Greenwedge

Metals406 said:


> Hey ya rascal!!
> 
> How bout some pics of your little operation?



You got er....just give me a minute.


----------



## Gologit

Metals406 said:


> Sam, Pondy's don't count. :yoyo:



What??!!


----------



## Sport Faller

Greenwedge said:


> Funny Slowp. lol



Holy #### on a peach orchard boar, Pat's back


----------



## Metals406

Gologit said:


> What??!!



Ponderosa Pine. . . They tend to be pretty dern big, bout anywhere you go and find them here. Best load counts I ever got when I was pulling wood was on a Pondy unit.

So they're cheating  -- now if'n that woulda been a big ol DF. . . :msp_thumbsup:


----------



## slowp

Did I see yellow paint on that log? :eek2:


----------



## plasticweld

My daughter Cathy works with me once in awhile, yesterday skidding logs she managed to lose to choker chains in the mud and then set the skidder on fire when she forgot to take the parking brake all the way off. I got a panicked phone call asking me what to do when she saw the smoke and flames coming out. Park it next to the creek and put out the fire :msp_mad: I will go back when it dries out and find the two chains with the metal detector, Not often she has brain fade but yesterday seemed to be one of those days. I asked her if I could take her picture with the idea it would be a day to remember and one to share with her brother who often argue over who has more experience. We are cutting some large red oak blow downs from last summer and the help is always welcome, I am working most days by myself so even if I have to put up with a few mistakes it is nice to have someone around


----------



## Rounder

slowp said:


> Did I see yellow paint on that log? :eek2:



Orange with blue over top. Cooridor tree. 

The rest of them, you just take your axe and chop that pesky orange painted bark off the tree.....:msp_tongue:

Edit: The yellow on the butt is a shot of paint the chaser put over the brand


----------



## tramp bushler

*did she get the fire out*

Did the skidder live . ??? 

If I wasn't so cranky and mean my wife might work with me . . But I am and she don't


----------



## hammerlogging

tramp bushler said:


> Did the skidder live . ???
> 
> If I wasn't so cranky and mean my wife might work with me . . But I am and she don't



Hi tramp, good to hear from you and we know, I atleast like you anyway. 
bacon and coffee will be going in a few hours, hopefully tomorrow will turn out to be a real charmer.


----------



## Hddnis

Greenwedge said:


> You got er....just give me a minute.






Times up!:hmm3grin2orange:




Mr. HE


----------



## tramp bushler

Hey Hammer , hows it goin ? I've spent the winter being a gypo logger who has to fix his own iron . 
Yuk . I hate getting grease on my hands or gloves . What a horrible thing for a timber faller to have to do . .

But loading my truk with ny old Terex is all kinds of easier than a pulp hook .


----------



## Hddnis

tramp bushler said:


> Hey Hammer , hows it goin ? I've spent the winter being a gypo logger who has to fix his own iron .
> Yuk . I hate getting grease on my hands or gloves . What a horrible thing for a timber faller to have to do . .
> 
> But loading my truk with ny old Terex is all kinds of easier than a pulp hook .






How's the business been going, Tramp?


You got any pictures of your operation from this winter?




Mr. HE


----------



## tramp bushler

I was uploading sme last night and forgot my password. Fell asleep before I remembered it . 

I'll keep goin aheadoner . Get some pics up. Sure is nice the daylight coming back !! Warmer temps too.


----------



## Hddnis

Yeah, I'm gettin' that itch that says I should start work way early and work late. Daylight hours will be catching up to me shortly. Soon summer will be so hot and miserable I'll be praying for snow again and looking forward to winter.:msp_biggrin:




Mr. HE


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## tramp bushler

Well it didn't work . It seems they changed photo bucket . I used to be able to get the img code by going into edit photo . :msp_unsure:


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## Hddnis

tramp bushler said:


> Well it didn't work . It seems they changed photo bucket . I used to be able to get the img code by going into edit photo . :msp_unsure:





On my photobucket it lists four different link types under the photo and if I right click on one is says "copied" and then I just paste it where I need it. I really hope they haven't changed that.:msp_unsure:




Mr. HE


----------



## stihl 440

*ill add to this thread*

Here is some pics from work yesterday of my other job as i work two..im cuttin gas line right of way as my logging boss is slow...the smaller of the two trees is over 4ft and red oak...the biggest is 6foot 6in with the root flare also red oak..all cut with a husky 372xp x-torque and 20" bar. Yea i know i pulled the post out of the big one but we're just cuttin right of way..if i was logging it i would've had my 395 and 2' bar and would have made a better, more accurate smoother and cleaner cut..but this company gets paid by the foot too cut it..so they want footage cut and as fast as you can...kind of like my logging boss and always wanting logs. Btw my logging boss would kill somebody to have these trees. Just figured id share.View attachment 226050
View attachment 226051
View attachment 226052
View attachment 226053


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## tramp bushler

Im trying to do it from my Android . I did it a while ago to Predator Masters . I uploaded my loggin pics to snapbucket but that is just a social engineering I mean social networking site as near as I can tell


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## tramp bushler

440 . Ya u got em down . You should try a 28" on your 372 . . I have a 20" on my 372 . But thats because its the longest bar that will fit in the cab of my loader behind my feet . It sucks having to wander around a tree to fall it . 

Hey , how come you call yourself Stihl 440 when your running sled dogs ??:msp_scared:

Jus kiddin . I might still be running a 044 / 440 mag wrap if the knuckle heads stihl made them . Man they were sweet saws . 
Why such a low stump ?


----------



## mdavlee

Tramp the 440 is available again from stihl for right now.


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## forestryworks

tramp bushler said:


> 440 . Ya u got em down . You should try a 28" on your 372 . . I have a 20" on my 372 . But thats because its the longest bar that will fit in the cab of my loader behind my feet . It sucks having to wander around a tree to fall it .
> 
> Hey , how come you call yourself Stihl 440 when your running sled dogs ??:msp_scared:
> 
> Jus kiddin . I might still be running a 044 / 440 mag wrap if the knuckle heads stihl made them . Man they were sweet saws .
> Why such a low stump ?



Low stump cause it's flat ground and the skidder drivers there can't drive around a stump :msp_biggrin:


----------



## stihl 440

tramp bushler said:


> 440 . Ya u got em down . You should try a 28" on your 372 . . I have a 20" on my 372 . But thats because its the longest bar that will fit in the cab of my loader behind my feet . It sucks having to wander around a tree to fall it .
> 
> Hey , how come you call yourself Stihl 440 when your running sled dogs ??:msp_scared:
> 
> Jus kiddin . I might still be running a 044 / 440 mag wrap if the knuckle heads stihl made them . Man they were sweet saws .
> Why such a low stump ?



Naa..i run 20" on every 372 i run..i got a 385 and 395 for the 24" and bigger bars..that or the company can get me one a bigger saw if i need it...(they have a 066 but i wasnt gonna pack that heavy SOB up that 1000ft almost cliff face)...and havent needed it yet. And yea my username might fool you..im actually a husqvarna man...it was just a username that worked at the time..no real reason behind it....just another saw i got...lol I keep the stumps low for the skidders in the woods when im logging and there is board feet in that stump if you think about it..and on right of way jobs its so that the chippers and trackhoes and dozers can drive over them and not get belly hung before the stump grinders get there that and there is less to grind if it is cut low....and some landowners i have logged for want the stumps as low as you can get them..some want anything over 3 feet high cut off. And i just like cutting low as i can it makes everything look better as well.


----------



## tramp bushler

Ya . What do u run for chain and sprocket . Before the snow gets deep I keep my stumps low for my own logging . Deeper the snow ,higher the stumps . I got another 460 stihl this winter . It only has a half wrap handle bar :msp_sad:.
I'm gonna get cut if I keep foolin around cutting with it . Back baring the face or back cut is a bad idea . 


.And limbing it is just plain dangerous . The left thumb ends upnot wrapped around the handle bar . . .


----------



## stihl 440

tramp bushler said:


> Ya . What do u run for chain and sprocket . Before the snow gets deep I keep my stumps low for my own logging . Deeper the snow ,higher the stumps . I got another 460 stihl this winter . It only has a half wrap handle bar :msp_sad:.
> I'm gonna get cut if I keep foolin around cutting with it . Back baring the face or back cut is a bad idea .
> 
> 
> .And limbing it is just plain dangerous . The left thumb ends upnot wrapped around the handle bar . . .



Chains i run either Stihl RSK or RSC..and oregon its LGX or LG. Sproket is 7 pin.....i like them better...8 pins are hard on clutches on a work saw...some guys like 8 pins but i dont on my loggin saw...the 395 might get a 8 pin for the 24" bar though...but i like the torque of the 7 pins better. All my personal saws and the ones i work with have to be half wraps...i've worked with them for so long i dont need a full or 3/4 wrap...i dont like them i have run them but they are cumbersome imo. I back bar the undercut on some of my faces and i back bar alot of backcuts..all depends on the situation and the lean or where i want to swing it to the lay. Some days i back bar 90% of my trees some days just a couple...it all depends. And my thumb always stays wrapped around the handlebar..no matter what its safer.


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## tramp bushler

Now to see if I can paste this


----------



## RandyMac

tramp bushler said:


> Now to see if I can paste this



Success!!!


----------



## tramp bushler

So this is my Terex L20 1973 end loader . Its got a nice running 3/71 Detroit in it . Its old but I own it .. 
No payments . [

If I got th right pic this is a 2 c



ord turn . The bell ring was my idea . It works ok, pretty good


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## Sport Faller

That's a helluva pair of glove dryers you got there


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## tramp bushler

Sometimes being bull headed makes life hard . 

Gotta figure out how t get a diff pic .

If I can I'll show why they are there . Loggin in the Interior is all about heat in the right places . You want your road to be at least 0 . But the equipment to be 40 above . 40 below is needed for a while so the ground is solid .


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## tramp bushler

just me standing on a nice little Sitka Spruce . Taken with my cell phone on Chichagof Island . Southeast Alaska .372 Husky 32" Oregon bar Semi skip chisel ground on a Simington451 cluster dressers . Grey stone . Joint set at 35k . 8 tooth rim . . Took about 3 1/2 minutes to lay it out nice and careful . .


----------



## RandyMac




----------



## bitzer

Holy #### Tramp! Are you gonna hang around for a while? I picked up a thing or two from you a couple of years back. Good to see you around.

Stihl 440- Ya can't start measuring diameters on those red oaks until you're about knee high on em. That root flair don't count in inches! Just giving ya #### man. Nice work although I'd be running a bigger saw for my own sanity.


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## tramp bushler

Still doin something haywire



The guy I was cutting for 90' up the affore mentioned Sitka Spruce . You can see to the right the stooled up spruce stump I had to miss after I had to swing it out around from behind a hemlock then stop its swing to miss a stump on the left . The tree brought about 6,000 $ to my boss . . One of the things that seperate a professional timber faller from a wud cutter or tree butcher .


----------



## tramp bushler

My boss . Doesn't like pictures or showing he's happy about the tree he's standing on .


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## tramp bushler

Another blooper

Randy . How much did it lean to the house .?


----------



## RandyMac

Leaned straight uphill, was a good easy drop and a $300 job.






It got converted to ashes, there was no way to pull out the logs.


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## tramp bushler

Very cool .






This Silver Poplar leaned completly over the trailer jpuse . It was about 18" on the stump. It had mostly just a shell . I had to climb it and rig it ., pull it over . It sounded up 6' up so it was pretty top heavy .


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## tramp bushler

I'll try another one





A little over 1 1/2 cord . 
Would have made some good lumber . But it makes good firewood too.


----------



## tramp bushler

Now maybe I can post some winter loggin pics.



.
this bell ring has worked out well . It makes it so I can tag out if I can't get close enough to a tree 





A 1 3/4 cord turn .


----------



## tramp bushler

1 1/2 Ready Heaters . Had to get the tire warm enuf so it would slide on the Murphy's Tire Soap and take a bead




Working alone in the winter up here is a real challenge . At 20 below it takes 6 gallons of fuel , gas+ diesel to warm up the loader enough to start . I need to get a propene coolant heater to keep the top end warm enough so that a half hour with the ready heater on the govenor and it will start


----------



## tramp bushler

Warming up the loader





IMO Detroit should have put glow plugs on the 53+71 series engines


----------



## tramp bushler

Warming up the truk at 45 below





Jake . This is why the gloves are on the front stakes of the flatbed . So the tarp will render over them and not catch and tear . Plus I wouldn't want just a plain white truk . Any one know how to fix the ignition on a 90 Ford 350 . When its colder than 30 below the key won't hardly turn . . I'm afraid to put the channel locks on it. Pot metal breaks real easy in the cold . I made the rear stakes so they fold sideways so I can roll the wood off the back.





I know its pretty hillbilly but I owned literly everything for this flat bed . I didn't spend 1 penny putting it on . It started life as an aluminum flat deck Air Force munitions tarmac wagon . I tried using it as a trailer but it didn't work out .




Having a flat bed sure is handy . All the hoses on the loader have replacable ends . But they have to be in a vice to unscrew them . And to put them on new hose.


----------



## Metals406

I seriously need to learn my splicing better. . . I can do a Hasty Eye no problem, but have forgotten how to do a Molly Hogan, or any of the others.

When I was logging, the boss was always helping, so I never did get it down pat.


----------



## Hddnis

Dealing with that kind of cold would be something else. I've driven through it, but don't recall ever working in anything below -20°f In ND I was driving through the front of a storm, trying to get ahead of it, when the temp was hitting -40° and I was really unhappy that the truck heater couldn't really keep the truck warm anymore.



Mr. HE


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## stihl 440

bitzer said:


> Holy #### Tramp! Are you gonna hang around for a while? I picked up a thing or two from you a couple of years back. Good to see you around.
> 
> Stihl 440- Ya can't start measuring diameters on those red oaks until you're about knee high on em. That root flair don't count in inches! Just giving ya #### man. Nice work although I'd be running a bigger saw for my own sanity.



Actually i would too if i where logging this..but i wasnt gonna bring in my 395 just to pack its heavy a$$ around all day.


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## tramp bushler

Ya splicing is really important if your loggin . I've done Lots of it . The vice is sweet for splicing .
A worm drive framing saw with a metal cutting blade woeks good for cutting wire . 
I broke a bell on this chocker . So I took the time to set up the vice . I made 1 of the marlin spikes from a valve from an old Enterprise tug boat engine . ..

I have a bunch of gear I can't even really wear until its colder tbthan 20 under . . You know its cold when u drop down into a canyon ir draw and the windshield starts iceing up and the engine + tranny starts acting up. I'm hoping to get my buss
iness goung well enuf so I dont have to


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## tramp bushler

To work when its colder than 20 below . Something to hope for anyway


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## Metals406

I'll tell you what, you nutty Alaskan's and your working in the cold! 

Around here, we roll up @ -10°, and don't think twice about doing it. 

I've been in -78° (w/ wind chill) skiing once. . . I barely made it down the mountain, and my damn zipper froze to my chin, and I didn't know it. I lifted my head, and it ripped off a chink of flesh with the zipper. :msp_mad:

I know up there, y'all bust out your t-shirts and shorts @ -30°


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## slowp

Metals406 said:


> I'll tell you what, you nutty Alaskan's and your working in the cold!
> 
> Around here, we roll up @ -10°, and don't think twice about doing it.
> 
> I've been in -78° (w/ wind chill) skiing once. . . I barely made it down the mountain, and my damn zipper froze to my chin, and I didn't know it. I lifted my head, and it ripped off a chink of flesh with the zipper. :msp_mad:
> 
> I know up there, y'all bust out your t-shirts and shorts @ -30°



I worked outdoors as a "lifty" in that weather. Luckily, not too many skiers were out and about so I could warm up inside the lift shack. We always switched at a half a day so it was half day out, half day on top watching from inside. We'd send people away that had frostbite on their faces. Brrrrr. I'm off to go skiing soon. It said it was 12 on top. We shall hope it warmed up, because they are doing maintenance work on the high speed quad so we must ride the old Chair 2 which is a slow, double. I think it takes 12 or 15 minutes to get up. Then we can ski over to the other part and stay there.


----------



## Metals406

slowp said:


> I worked outdoors as a "lifty" in that weather. Luckily, not too many skiers were out and about so I could warm up inside the lift shack. We always switched at a half a day so it was half day out, half day on top watching from inside. We'd send people away that had frostbite on their faces. Brrrrr. I'm off to go skiing soon. It said it was 12 on top. We shall hope it warmed up, because they are doing maintenance work on the high speed quad so we must ride the old Chair 2 which is a slow, double. I think it takes 12 or 15 minutes to get up. Then we can ski over to the other part and stay there.



I hate slow chairs! Ya about freeze to death before ya get to the top. Once you're off it and skiing, ya warm right up!


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## Samlock

tramp bushler said:


> I have a bunch of gear I can't even really wear until its colder tbthan 20 under . . You know its cold when u drop down into a canyon ir draw and the windshield starts iceing up and the engine + tranny starts acting up. I'm hoping to get my buss
> iness goung well enuf so I dont have to



You know it's cold when after taking a leak need to swing a hatchet in front of your hose before you can place it back and get on with the business.


----------



## tramp bushler

Metals406 said:


> I'll tell you what, you nutty Alaskan's and your working in the cold!
> 
> Around here, we roll up @ -10°, and don't think twice about doing it.
> 
> I've been in -78° (w/ wind chill) skiing once. . . I barely made it down the mountain, and my damn zipper froze to my chin, and I didn't know it. I lifted my head, and it ripped off a chink of flesh with the zipper. :msp_mad:
> 
> I know up there, y'all bust out your t-shirts and shorts @ -30°



I have seen my wife yelling ( Its Warm) at 46 below dead calm . Walking our dogs at 10pm . 
Because it had been 60 below . She is from southern Calif. . 10 below isn't cold .


----------



## Metals406

tramp bushler said:


> I have seen my wife yelling ( Its Warm) at 46 below dead calm . Walking our dogs at 10pm .
> Because it had been 60 below . She is from southern Calif. . 10 below isn't cold .



I imagine I'd acclimate pretty good to the cold up there -- it generally doesn't bother me too bad.

I was throwing the football with my boys yesterday, and it was around 28° -- but I didn't have a shirt on.

After about 20 minutes, my love handles did get a little tingly though!


----------



## tramp bushler

Right now its around 32 above here . I'm not going to work today . Too much chance of getting stuck on my road coming out with a load on . For me 80 above is harder to eork in than 40 below is . .

The trick is to have the right gear for the cold . The older I get . The more the cold gets to me . Colder than 30 below is hard on the hoses on my loader . Warmer than that is fine . Just takes more work . 
But thats why I have such a big market for my wood .


----------



## Metals406

tramp bushler said:


> Right now its around 32 above here . I'm not going to work today . Too much chance of getting stuck on my road coming out with a load on . For me 80 above is harder to eork in than 40 below is . .
> 
> The trick is to have the right gear for the cold . The older I get . The more the cold gets to me . Colder than 30 below is hard on the hoses on my loader . Warmer than that is fine . Just takes more work .
> But thats why I have such a big market for my wood .



I'm the same way. . . I don't do well with heat, but get along fine in the cold.

I'd rather do outside physical work in 20°, instead of 80°. It's harder to cool down in the heat, and easier to stay warm in the cold. I liked logging a hell of a lot better when is was cold or cool too. I hated those 95° days, with talc fine powder dirt up to your ankles. 

My boss used to say, "There's heat in the tools." BTW, that same boss spent over 25 years living, guiding, and working in Alaska.


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## tramp bushler

Beins I'm home . And its warm out and I have a cold 
I thot Ide see if I coyld transfer some of my old stills to digital with my smarty pants phone . Here goes




. Lets see


----------



## tramp bushler

Hey it worked . This was a Red Cedar blow down . Saw is a 394 Husky .32" b+ c running Oregon 75CKX chisel ground of course the Dura Pro .chain 8 tooth rim Buffalo fly weight spring heels with the Neolite sole and #2 redwood screw ins . .I limbed it but left it tree length as it was going to be shovel logged . A 2 bushel tree .


----------



## tramp bushler

Sorry it's sideways . This is a Red Cedar . It was around 9'x11 foot on the stump . Daw is my 3120 Husky .42" Oergon 3 rivet tip .I'm pretty sure I was running 3/8 Dura Pro . I thot it was going to be a snag ( turn to a rag when it hit the ground . But it was sound as a nut . I got in major trouble for the Conventional face .


..
Tolstoy Bay


----------



## RandyMac




----------



## tramp bushler

Hey Randy . You fixed my pic . Thanks 

That tree may be getting into the size you fell . Actually that one hit the ground pretty quick ..I definatly should have put a Humbolt in that one .


----------



## Metals406

Haywire said:


>



Hey, what's all this green fir cutting without calling me over? :msp_sneaky:


----------



## RandyMac

tramp bushler said:


> Hey Randy . You fixed my pic . Thanks
> 
> That tree may be getting into the size you fell . Actually that one hit the ground pretty quick ..I definatly should have put a Humbolt in that one .



It looks fine, did you snipe the first cut?

My personal best was 11'9".


----------



## mdavlee

Cherry stump I made monday.


----------



## bitzer

Nice to see some new stumps up! Nice pics everyone!

#### weather day today. This may be the beginning of winter break up for me. Time will tell. Anyway....

Gettin creative on these doubles. Some pretty short wood in this part of job. All of these were around head high or so. Boring over your head is fun.




The stump faced to the camera was a humboldt/snipe/super dutch/with a kerf all the way across combo. I had to swing it out of a leave tree and get the hinge to snap quickly so it rolled out. Worked like a champ except I had to grab my starter cord and wait for the tree to come around before I could pull the saw out. 




Cutting the far side off and nipping a little to see which way the kerf was going to close. The whole thing moved 5 or 6ft. I guess I picked the right side to stand on. There is major emphasis on leaving the leave trees in this job. Cutting at least one of the red oaks in the background before letting this one loose would have solved some problems. 




Wide open for a big ugly.




Pull from the stump makes a different squeal then pull from the butt. When these push through big limbs break and come back over the stump. When it started to go I split. I usually spend extra time brushing out for these big uglies. Any extra tension compiles the pain in the ass. These are always a humbling lesson in tension. I usually get about 6-12 of these per job. Old fence line uglies. I got one nice 8 and one ugly 8 out of this one. The rest was twisted pulp.






View attachment 226722

View attachment 226723

View attachment 226724

View attachment 226725

View attachment 226726


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## tramp bushler

Haywire .I havn't seen a Homlite that vintage in a while .is it a 360 .I can't quite make it out . 
Mdavlee .;when I first saw your pic I was trying to figure out why such a tall stump . 
Then I turned my phone sideways and saw the fence and realized it was a pasture. Will that stump put up new leaders or will it rot ? 

Bitzer ; I thot you ran full wrap handle bars . They make falling those ya need to get artistic with alot easier . You must be loggin with a forwarder . Is someone going t cut up the limbs for firewood ?


----------



## bitzer

tramp bushler said:


> Bitzer ; I thot you ran full wrap handle bars . They make falling those ya need to get artistic with alot easier . You must be loggin with a forwarder . Is someone going t cut up the limbs for firewood ?



Tramp- Yeah I do run full wraps, but I never got around to putting one on the 394. You have to special order full wraps around here. The vast majority of people have never even heard of them. I finally got sick of it and ordered one last Thursday. That and the bigger dogs. Hopefully it comes in today. I am running a forwarder and take as much of the pulp out as I can and sell it for firewood. 8' sticks at 10-12 cords per load and all cash. Works out pretty well.

Hey do you have a quick coupler set up on your loader to run warm coolant through the block before you start it? I've got one on my forwarder that I can couple up to my truck.


----------



## tramp bushler

RandyMac said:


> It looks fine, did you snipe the first cut?
> 
> My personal best was 11'9".



No . I was still thinking snag and a riggin cut . I was bushlin . After I limbed it up to where I was going t buck it I realized it was a good tree . . It was really wolfy topped . I only got around 80 lineal feet out of itand around 7 bushel . Southeast red cedar tapers FAST . .


----------



## Sport Faller

Haywire said:


> Gettin' me some practice chop blocks, want to help me get 'em up the hill?



You be doin some standing block?
Watch yer toes, my Granpap bobbed his big toe off once doin that, of course that was back in the days when wearing toeguards pretty much meant that you were a poofter


----------



## mdavlee

That tree will probably rot as the center is hollow already. It was leaning back a good bit. It was the farthest I've tried with back lean. Probably 1 ft off center to the back with dead limbs hanging in it. I did wear my hardhat all day on them fencerow trees. You can see the end of a cedar laying on the cherry on the ground. It broke the top out about 15' up when it went. He plans on putting new posts in and taking the trees out as low as possible later on. I think we cut 15 trees in that fencerow. My shoulders were a little sore the next day. Sure am glad I had something smaller than the 066 for the small cedars around 10".


----------



## tramp bushler

Bitzer . I wish I'de known you needed a wrap for your 394 . I think I have a new one out in the shed . . No I don't have a quick coupler set up . . I don't know how to hook one up and finding a brush mechanic around here is tough . . I'm alittle parinoid about that set up . Have you had any problems with yours ?


----------



## Sport Faller

Haywire said:


> Hey Jake, yeah been practicing the standing block chop. *I've been wearing old coffee cans on my feet*, so far I still have all my digits



Steel toe boots, Haywire Gulch style 

are you going to Darby logger days this year?, I am and I think I might do a few events too


----------



## Sport Faller

Haywire said:


> It's on the calender! Kalispell team for the Saw/Split /Stack?



I'm in as long as I don't have to stack :hmm3grin2orange:

I'm thinkin we could use my 660 with a 20" bar and maybe an 8 or 9 pin on it for the saw part, maybe have Nate work us up a scary assed chain


----------



## bitzer

tramp bushler said:


> Bitzer . I wish I'de known you needed a wrap for your 394 . I think I have a new one out in the shed . . No I don't have a quick coupler set up . . I don't know how to hook one up and finding a brush mechanic around here is tough . . I'm alittle parinoid about that set up . Have you had any problems with yours ?



Well I got a call from the shop and the new handle is on with the bigger dogs. Looks like I'll lose about a half an inch of bar length. They sure don't give those away. Handle and parts to go with it ran about $130. 

The quick coupler was on it when I bought the machine. I planned to get my truck set up last fall, but never got around to it and with the unusually mild winter we had there was only a couple of days below zero. Just a tiny snort of ether got me by every morning. Near the water pump there is a three way joint that has the main hose coming from the bottom of the radiator into the pump. One other hose goes to my cab heater which is just a radiator and the last hose is the coupler line. Its the same at the top of the block with the main into the radiator and the other two hoses, one out to the cab heater and the other coupled back to the other side. I'll probably set mine up this spring sometime when I can't log. From what I've heard its the cat's ass for cold starts. Just a minute or two from the hot coolant of the truck to warm the block makes a huge difference. Some guys really swear by it.


----------



## tramp bushler

Ok . I would have sent u that hb for the shipping . Oh well less $ u need to send to Uncle Sam . . . 
Can u post a pic of your forwarder . I'm on lunch . Loader loggin in deep snow is sl:jesterw and hard .

I got stuck for a bit in a blowdown sloggin out to the loader from falling a turn . Snow had drifted and was over waste deep.

I gotta get my skidder here this summer . . 

I'll post some pics of snowshoe timber falling .


----------



## tramp bushler

I'm on 2nd lunch






They don't call me captian chubby for nuthin


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## Metals406

Hey Tramp, where's the winter beard? It'll keep ya warmer out in that -40°!!


----------



## promac850

Metals406 said:


> I seriously need to learn my splicing better. . . I can do a Hasty Eye no problem, but have forgotten how to do a Molly Hogan, or any of the others.
> 
> When I was logging, the boss was always helping, so I never did get it down pat.



Molly Hogan for ya...






Now I'm off to learn about the Hasty Eye...


...
Waitafrigginminute... something ain't right... I looked at a couple of different wire eye splices, and the pic of the one I just posted was said to be a Molly Hogan, but another site said it is a Hasty Eye... which one is it?


(sorry for bothering you loggers... just trying to learn some more interesting splices and stuff...)


----------



## bitzer

tramp bushler said:


> Ok . I would have sent u that hb for the shipping . Oh well less $ u need to send to Uncle Sam . . .
> Can u post a pic of your forwarder . I'm on lunch . Loader loggin in deep snow is sl:jesterw and hard .
> 
> I got stuck for a bit in a blowdown sloggin out to the loader from falling a turn . Snow had drifted and was over waste deep.
> 
> I gotta get my skidder here this summer . .
> 
> I'll post some pics of snowshoe timber falling .



Hey Tramp here it is a coupla of months ago. Thanks a lot for the offer! I'd have taken you up on that, but as it always seems a day late and a dollar short for me. 






View attachment 226879


----------



## Metals406

promac610 said:


> Molly Hogan for ya...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I'm off to learn about the Hasty Eye...
> 
> 
> ...
> Waitafrigginminute... something ain't right... I looked at a couple of different wire eye splices, and the pic of the one I just posted was said to be a Molly Hogan, but another site said it is a Hasty Eye... which one is it?
> 
> 
> (sorry for bothering you loggers... just trying to learn some more interesting splices and stuff...)



Your pics aren't showing up for me. . . But anyway -- the pic below that Tramp posted is what I know as a Molly Hogan (a spliced eye). A Hasty Eye is plenty strong, and is how the rigging shops do them before they press the swage sleeve on the eye. Without the swage sleeve, you need to seize your ends - either with tape or wire.

A Molly Hogan is strong too, because you're splicing the tails back into the cable from the eye, but you have to remember how to do it, and it takes longer to do. . . You also need Marlin spikes (or improvised) handy, especially on the big cable (like skyline).


----------



## promac850

Metals406 said:


> Your pics aren't showing up for me. . . But anyway -- the pic below that Tramp posted is what I know as a Molly Hogan (a spliced eye). A Hasty Eye is plenty strong, and is how the rigging shops do them before they press the swage sleeve on the eye. Without the swage sleeve, you need to seize your ends - either with tape or wire.
> 
> A Molly Hogan is strong too, because you're splicing the tails back into the cable from the eye, but you have to remember how to do it, and it takes longer to do. . . You also need Marlin spikes (or improvised) handy, especially on the big cable (like skyline).



What would this one be called? Other than Flemished Eye, I mean. According to the site it's posted on, it's also known as a Molly Hogan. 

[video]http://www.offshorediver.com/content/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=view&catid=18&id=365&Itemid=0[/video]


----------



## Gologit

promac610 said:


> What would this one be called? Other than Flemished Eye, I mean. According to the site it's posted on, it's also known as a Molly Hogan.
> 
> [video]http://www.offshorediver.com/content/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=view&catid=18&id=365&Itemid=0[/video]



Around here we just call them an eye splice but you know how it is with different labels in different places.

And good on ya for learning how to splice. A lot of guys in the woods don't know how. Or like to pretend they don't, anyway. 

If you use a vice make sure the jaws don't cause any abrasion to the line when you clamp it down.


----------



## Metals406

promac610 said:


> What would this one be called? Other than Flemished Eye, I mean. According to the site it's posted on, it's also known as a Molly Hogan.
> 
> [video]http://www.offshorediver.com/content/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=view&catid=18&id=365&Itemid=0[/video]



That's what I learned as a Hasty Eye. . . Cause, it's fast and stuff, or Hasty even.  LOL

You can see that rigger has done an eye or two in his time! And did ya see that press in the background there!  That's a big mamma jamma!


----------



## slowp

When you speak of Mollies, I think of these round ones that are used like a cotter pin or to hang stuff on. 





View attachment 226892


----------



## Metals406

Gologit said:


> Around here we just call them an eye splice but you know how it is with different labels in different places.
> 
> And good on ya for learning how to splice. A lot of guys in the woods don't know how. Or like to pretend they don't, anyway.
> 
> If you use a vice make sure the jaws don't cause any abrasion to the line when you clamp it down.



The prosecution submits this as Exhibit A as evidence.


----------



## tramp bushler

I think it has to do with where you are . That being said if there are any BC tower loggerd that read this , please chime in . !!!!!!!!!! 

Slowp is right on the Molly's 
As far as West Coast tower loggin is concerned . . 
I am not sure but I think what some are calling a ( hasty eye) is what we call a farmers eye . . Those that don't know why can figure out why . What I put in on this chocker is a 3 
tuck eye splice . A 2 tuck haywire splice would have worked fine . But if all you do for a few years is 2 tuck . Then you forget where to go back to pick up your 1st tuck for its 2 tuck so it can then get tucked with the 5th . 

So then you may have to call one of your


----------



## tramp bushler

Old hook tenders who is now a lineman and is taking a class down in Texas and ask him . But maybe he can't call it up in the memory bank . What with the grey cells being full of mega watts 
And other lineman stuff . So then you may call every other hook tender you know that you can find a phone # for but they cant tell you . Becausr they cant tell you . . They could do it if they were standing there with you but they now work for Public works or are in the 302 or retired ect. If I had had this smarty pants phone I would have got Humptulips on the horn and asked him last spring when I was making up along recovery strap out of 1" . After a couple false starts I remembered . Maybe I'll open a new thread on splicing and wire rope in general . .

I'm suprised Haywire hasn't chimed in . With a handle like Haywire . He's gotta be a tower logger.


----------



## tramp bushler

More snow shoe timber falling




the 460 has a 32" bar on it.




This is the problem with most of the white and black spruce up here





Hey Forestry , whats wrong with this picture.


----------



## RandyMac

wrong color scheme.


----------



## tramp bushler

opcorn:


----------



## tramp bushler

Oh hey Metals . . The reason I chopped the beard is I get way tired of my beard and stash freezing together . Hurts when I open my mouth .
If its cold enough to need a beard it cold enough to need a good face mask . I've got about a bushel basket of those . Once they ice upand get full of frozen snot they need thawed an:msp_smile:d laundered


----------



## slowp

Humptulips should still remember splices. He's not down in Texas.


----------



## floyd

Why would anyone want to be in TX? It's warm other places.


----------



## Sport Faller

tramp bushler said:


> whats wrong with this picture.



Mini dawgs and a half wrap?


----------



## tramp bushler

bigskyjake said:


> Mini dawgs and a half wrap?



Yup . . Hopefully that will be rectified by yhe 12th . Wish it was today .


----------



## tramp bushler

Bitzer . Thats AWESOME !!! got any more . What brand is it . Model . ?? How does the loader operator station work . Does the seat swivel ?


----------



## 056 kid

RandyMac said:


> wrong color scheme.



#### youuuu old timer, the rest of ya'll too.

YIIIIIIIII mutha-####in HAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW


----------



## bitzer

tramp bushler said:


> Bitzer . Thats AWESOME !!! got any more . What brand is it . Model . ?? How does the loader operator station work . Does the seat swivel ?



Thanks! Franklin 132XL. I had more, but my old phone took a crap so I'll have to get some new pics. Its supposed to freeze up a little this weekend and I might be able to skid. Its got the five stick controls in the back of the cab. Yep seat swivel. I have nearly 360 degree picking up capability, but it gets tough looking over your shoulder when you are picking up in front like that. I usually just move ahead but there was nothing else further down and I had to back up to get out.

Looks like your havin fun in the snow up there! Last year this time there was 2ft in the woods. This year less than an inch on the north facing slopes and everywhere else nothing. It was the year we never got a winter. Now I can only hope for the sun to shine and the wind to blow to get the ground hard again.


----------



## ChainsawmanXX

Hey guys. Finally got to make it to the PNW! 
And god how beautiful was it! Im on the road for my job amd it took me up to seattle. We took 90 in through, from ellensburg. Seen some nice sized trees up on the mountain there and plenty of remains to some old logging  
Had a hell of a time getting back out of seattle, going up the mountain back tl ellensburg wednesday night was hell, Blinding snow. 
I also thought when people said that it rained all the time in washington.. It was an overstatment... Turns out I was wrong


----------



## slowp

It does rain all the time. You were in a truck. It was snowing on Tuesday and Wednesday here. Rain yesterday, rain today.
Rain...

Seattle was in a strange rain shadow. We get more rain than Seattle, actually. Rain from October through the first couple weeks of July. Then we may see some sun. I suggest taking a vacation here in November. Don't move here, just visit. 

Why do you think there are so many coffee places? Yes, vacation during the short, lovely days of November.
You might change your mind.


----------



## ChainsawmanXX

slowp said:


> It does rain all the time. You were in a truck. It was snowing on Tuesday and Wednesday here. Rain yesterday, rain today.
> Rain...
> 
> Seattle was in a strange rain shadow. We get more rain than Seattle, actually. Rain from October through the first couple weeks of July. Then we may see some sun. I suggest taking a vacation here in November. Don't move here, just visit.
> 
> Why do you think there are so many coffee places? Yes, vacation during the short, lovely days of November.
> You might change your mind.




No I was out in the rain for a good 3 hours unloading the truck. Lol
I told myself I wanted to come back when it was less foggy, and come back to that lake that is in the middle of that valley on 90 where you go through that small tunnel heading west. 
I was talking to a guy at the place we were deliveering to. His brother was/is big into saws and had one of the biggest saw shops in WA. Jerry lappell, know him?


----------



## slowp

ChainsawmanXX said:


> No I was out in the rain for a good 3 hours unloading the truck. Lol
> I told myself I wanted to come back when it was less foggy, and come back to that lake that is in the middle of that valley on 90 where you go through that small tunnel heading west.
> I was talking to a guy at the place we were deliveering to. His brother was/is big into saws and had one of the biggest saw shops in WA. Jerry lappell, know him?



Nope. I don't live in that area. The lake you speak of is man made. It is Kechelus(I probably butchered the spelling) Lake. There used to be stumps sticking up as it drew down. I haven't been over that pass for some time. I avoid it because there are traffic jams on the weekends. Our state's population has boomed since I was a kid, and that is not to the good. 

The pass I live near is to the south, White Pass--Higway 12. It is usually the last mountain pass to close when the other two are closed due to slides and avalanches. It is quite scenic, when the clouds part. Today our area is foggy, and I better go for a walk whilst it is only foggy.


----------



## Joe46

What Patty said. That lake turns into a mud flat with stumps during the summer months. By the way I thought the pics you posted looked an awful lot like Snoqualmie Pass. That's one of the lowest passes in the state. Glad you enjoyed your visit.


----------



## ChainsawmanXX

Heres some pictures 









I know these views may not be much to you guys... But to this flat-lander it is!


----------



## tramp bushler

No . Getting into the mountains has its rewards . I get tired of the weather . But . They are pretty . 
What did u haul over there . At least it wasn't cold .


----------



## ChainsawmanXX

tramp bushler said:


> No . Getting into the mountains has its rewards . I get tired of the weather . But . They are pretty .
> What did u haul over there . At least it wasn't cold .



Im with a Van Line. 
Moving peoples household stuff across the country, hell of a job. Would love to be back in the woods making chips but times are hard in that industry :msp_sneaky:


----------



## tramp bushler

Well , you get to see some country. Thats a good thing . Even get paid t do it .


----------



## ChainsawmanXX

tramp bushler said:


> Well , you get to see some country. Thats a good thing . Even get paid t do it .



That was kind of the mindset behind the whole job. 
Iv been doing it for 6 months so far, gonna stick it out for alittle longer though.


----------



## Plankton

First the mud in january now snow again has got me out of work for quite a while with no more cutting to do only pulling and all the logs are under 2 ft. of snow! So I sit around the fire greasing up the corks and shining the tin hat itching to get back out in the woods!

I did go cruising my timber land with my father the other day feeling a little old school just thought of this thread when we got a picture of me next to a punkin of the east 

kikin' it old school complete with snoose snow cone:cool2:







working on getting some falling pictures from the fall uploaded bit of a trial though there in good ol fashioned prints so getting them on the internet is obnoxious.


----------



## Driver625

Charlemont is not that far from here. Been through it hauling for Lane. Nice looking punkin.


----------



## fir

I like


----------



## ChainsawmanXX

Plankton said:


> First the mud in january now snow again has got me out of work for quite a while with no more cutting to do only pulling and all the logs are under 2 ft. of snow! So I sit around the fire greasing up the corks and shining the tin hat itching to get back out in the woods!
> 
> I did go cruising my timber land with my father the other day feeling a little old school just thought of this thread when we got a picture of me next to a punkin of the east
> 
> kikin' it old school complete with snoose snow cone:cool2:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> working on getting some falling pictures from the fall uploaded bit of a trial though there in good ol fashioned prints so getting them on the internet is obnoxious.




Geez boy, ya cant be much older then 20!!


----------



## mingo

ChainsawmanXX said:


> Geez boy, ya cant be much older then 20!!



It's good to see some young blood. When I go to a timber showing you see the same faces that have been showing up for the last 30 years. Get the feeling I'm becoming a dinosaur.


----------



## Oldtimer

I wanna kill that white pine, Plankman. Premeditated murder. Guilty.


----------



## funky sawman

tramp bushler said:


> More snow shoe timber falling
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the 460 has a 32" bar on it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the problem with most of the white and black spruce up here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Forestry , whats wrong with this picture.



WERE is your full wrap handle bar, and that saw is not an ARTIC version


----------



## Samlock

funky sawman said:


> WERE is your full wrap handle bar, and that saw is not an ARTIC version



Aw, the saw looks a piece of art to me...

Seriously. The label "Arctic" doesn't mean much in the real world. A heated pair of handles is nice, but otherwise.. not worth it.

Tramp, how do those tennis racket snow shoes function in the bush? Get stuck often?

Sam


----------



## tramp bushler

mingo said:


> It's good to see some young blood. When I go to a timber showing you see the same faces that have been showing up for the last 30 years. Get the feeling I'm becoming a dinosaur.



Ain't that the truth . The enviro wakos are going to win the war in the woods if we don't have young guys to take our place.


----------



## tramp bushler

Funky; my full wrap is somewhere between Texas and Glennallen Alaska . I'm gonna try modifying a 372 falling dog to fit the 460 .
I am PAINFULLY AWARE it isn't an Arctic version . Heating my busted up lunch hooks up on the muffler is a constant occurance . 

Sam; I would live to have alll my saws have heated handke bars . I have destroyed dozens of glovves on the mufflers warming my hands up. .The hot wire in the carb woyld be nice fir when it snows also .I drilled a bunch of holes in the top cover of my 372 so it can suck some warm air from the jug .


----------



## forestryworks

Tramp, the wrap handle is probably having a layover in Vegas. Poolside with cold beer and scantily clad women :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## tramp bushler

Funky; my full wrap is somewhere between Texas and Glennallen Alaska . I'm gonna try modifying a 372 falling dog to fit the 460 .
I am PAINFULLY AWARE it isn't an Arctic version . Heating my busted up lunch hooks up on the muffler is a constant occurance . 

Sam; I would live to have alll my saws have heated handke bars . I have destroyed dozens of glovves on the mufflers warming my hands up. .The hot wire in the carb woyld be nice fir when it snows also .I drilled a bunch of holes in the top cover of my 372 so it can suck some warm air from the jug .

Spelling errors # love# handle# gloves# for# would.

I think. Maybe, perhaps.


----------



## tramp bushler

forestryworks said:


> Tramp, the wrap handle is probably having a layover in Vegas. Poolside with cold beer and scantily clad women :hmm3grin2orange:


:msp_razz:
Hey . I got the screws . Got a real funny look from ny wife.


----------



## forestryworks

Handle ought to be there by the end of the week or Monday.

Let me know when it arrives.


----------



## tramp bushler

Sam . The snowshoes work better than not having them . 
Because it is so dry here and cold the snow is kind of odd . It doesn't pack down very good at all . Its very fine grained and is slippery . I get hung up and fall over more if I don't wear the shoes . 
I need to make a pair of 13"x84" from aluminum with synthetic decking . 

Now before anyone wants to argue just shut yer gob and think . Even the Alaskan model and the Ojibaway model arn't big enough .

Modern snowshoes work ok in much wetter denser snow . 

At 5'9" and 240# naked it takes alot of square footage to keep me afloat . 

And yes if you think aboutwhere you are putting your foor u can walk thru the brush just fine on Long sbowshoes.


----------



## Samlock

tramp bushler said:


> Sam . The snowshoes work better than not having them .
> Because it is so dry here and cold the snow is kind of odd . It doesn't pack down very good at all . Its very fine grained and is slippery . I get hung up and fall over more if I don't wear the shoes .
> I need to make a pair of 13"x84" from aluminum with synthetic decking .
> 
> Now before anyone wants to argue just shut yer gob and think . Even the Alaskan model and the Ojibaway model arn't big enough .
> 
> Modern snowshoes work ok in much wetter denser snow .
> 
> At 5'9" and 240# naked it takes alot of square footage to keep me afloat .
> 
> And yes if you think aboutwhere you are putting your foor u can walk thru the brush just fine on Long sbowshoes.



The reason I asked is that I'm living in a dry snow country too.

Funny thing is that in my country there's practically no tradition whatsoever for the snow shoes, although we have snow 6 months of the year. It's been all skis through the history. They're quite a new piece of equipment over here introduced by Americans. So, I haven't actually tried out the Long snowshoes.

The modern snowshoes, are expensive and highly designed. Suitable for walking, not working.

Now I've stumbled last six winters on a pair that I'm satisfied with. It's basically a pair of plastic plates, no holes, no hinges, steel spikes on the soil. Unfortunately I can't post any pictures right now.


----------



## slowp

The bad thing about snowshoes is you can't ski on the downhill parts. Maybe that's a good thing? I got big ones. I don't have any problems walking on them, and if you have ever experienced sinking to your waist with fru fru snowshoes on, well, the big ones make sense. 

A lot of recreational snowshoers just stay on packed trails. 

Ever have a dog try to ride on your skis or snowshoes? It will definitely slow you down. 

Well, I best get going. We are going skiing today. I will try not to land on my shoulder again.


----------



## tramp bushler

I have been snowshoeing since 1970 so I am used to traditional shoes



.
these are a modified bear paw . 14"x36 . Backing up is a challenge . So just do very little of it .


----------



## slowp

tramp bushler said:


> I have been snowshoeing since 1970 so I am used to traditional shoes
> these are a modified bear paw . 14"x36 . Backing up is a challenge . So just do very little of it .



And those are definitely *not* fru fru snowshoes.


----------



## tramp bushler

slowp said:


> And those are definitely *not* fru fru snowshoes.




Nope . The only modern ones that are really well designed for normal working snowshoes . The 10x36 model of Shetpas has been discontinued of course 
.
the white military shoes are good for wetter snow and are helpful here . But I still sink to far . I've fell timber using the Michigan 14x48" , the Alaskan 11x56" and 2 different pair of 9x 30" modern shoes . 
pair of 
We've gotten another 5" of snow since I took those pics and I need togo for a mile walk to find a new patch of timber . Breaking trail sucks . The back trail is good tho . .


----------



## Plankton

ChainsawmanXX said:


> Geez boy, ya cant be much older then 20!!



Yes sir it is my 19th birthday today in fact!

I want to kill it too but the reason its still there is that there is no possible ground to cut it without it blowing up its hasa sheer drop off on 3 sides and nowhere to put it on the 4th side, unfortunate but true


----------



## tramp bushler

Point er straight down the mount:msp_thumbup:ain . Put a stamp on er and turn er loose . Conifers save out pretty good if they can slow down before they stop . Limbs them pretty good too . 

At least if you can log it from where it ends up . :sucksp_tong:msp_thumbup:


----------



## Cedarkerf

Saw this a bit down the road thought you guys might be amused. Prolly 30-36" diameter. Trees were close to power lines as well. The camera/phone was held level in all shots














View attachment 227749

View attachment 227750

View attachment 227751


----------



## Gologit

Cedarkerf said:


> Saw this a bit down the road thought you guys might be amused. Prolly 30-36" diameter. Trees were close to power lines as well. The camera/phone was held level in all shots



Line clearance or firewood guys? Either way, that's kinda ugly.


----------



## slowp

Example of the Slopping backcut?


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> Example of the Slopping backcut?



Not a steep enough slopp, Slowp. I'm sorry, I couldn't resist.


----------



## Cedarkerf

Gologit said:


> Line clearance or firewood guys? Either way, that's kinda ugly.


Think might have been home owner as a few trees were done over a couple days.


----------



## Samlock

Hey, I have a picture of my snow shoes on the album after all. I found them in a local saw shop 5-6 years ago. I don't know the manufacturer, brand or anything. Just that they were cheap. Got to post the pic because I suppose you CAN-US people are experts on this kind of gear. 







They take the occasional chain contacts quite well. The size is approx. 12X20''. They keep me on the surface, but again, I'm light infantry (160 lb). 

Downsides of these shoes are that they make good shovels and you're tempted to clear the snow from the butts with them. You'll soon have a pair of bad knee caps doing that. Plus walking on wet snow will give you a serious baboon's arse in the end of the day, because the heels keep throwing snow at your butt.


----------



## lfnh

Gologit said:


> Not a steep enough slopp, Slowp. I'm sorry, I couldn't resist.





Cedarkerf said:


> Think might have been home owner as a few trees were done over a couple days.



HBRN has expanded his service area.


----------



## Slamm

lfnh said:


> HBRN has expanded his service area.



LOL.

That was funny.

Sam


----------



## Gologit

lfnh said:


> HBRN has expanded his service area.



Let's hope not. Think about it...he's still out there. Somewhere. :msp_scared:


----------



## tramp bushler

Sam . You can make Sasquatch tracks . 
Where those shoes are attached to your heel you could prolly throw snow up over your hard hat if you got some speed going .. 
regular snowshoes hinge under the ball of the foot . However , if you have to back up they are a challenge .

If they work for u great ! They wouldn't for me . Plus , being plastic they may break in the cold . It was 24 below here last night 15 below now .


----------



## Samlock

tramp bushler said:


> Sam . You can make Sasquatch tracks .
> Where those shoes are attached to your heel you could prolly throw snow up over your hard hat if you got some speed going ..
> regular snowshoes hinge under the ball of the foot . However , if you have to back up they are a challenge .
> 
> If they work for u great ! They wouldn't for me . Plus , being plastic they may break in the cold . It was 24 below here last night 15 below now .



I, the Sasquatch tracker.

In spite of the downfalls, that's a pair I'm used to. I really wouldn't wear them in the woods without a chainsaw. That's what the skis are for. Yeah, backing up is easy. Hell, you could dance a piece of the ballet Swan Lake wearing them. Not that I would... Usually. 

I've worn them snowshoes at -50F, so it's quite safe to assume the material is cold proof.


----------



## tramp bushler

Oh . Ok . Cold pruf . I know if there was a pair of them I could try out , I would . 

I found that Iverson now makes a pair of 10x72" called the Tundra . I'm waiting to here back from them on shipping now . 

Winter is a pretty great time . But a guy needs to be able to gey around . A 400$ pair of snowshoes is alot cheaper than a 7,000$ snow go.


----------



## Samlock

tramp bushler said:


> Oh . Ok . Cold pruf . I know if there was a pair of them I could try out , I would .
> 
> I found that Iverson now makes a pair of 10x72" called the Tundra . I'm waiting to here back from them on shipping now .
> 
> Winter is a pretty great time . But a guy needs to be able to gey around . A 400$ pair of snowshoes is alot cheaper than a 7,000$ snow go.



Heh, I'm afraid my snowshoes wouldn't handle a full size male adult.

This winter has been here in North Europe extremely mild. Not much snow, barely 2 feet. Well, just enough to justify snowshoeing. Last few days have felt kinda springish. That's early, I tell you.

I think it'd be embarassing to buy a $7000 snow mobile, plus a trailer, drive it into the bush, step off the saddle and sink waist high into the snow.


----------



## hammerlogging

This is the shortcut I take into the job every morning, and out every evening:

View attachment 228143


I had several phone camera pics to share but when I put them up they turned out to be postage stamp sized. Oh well.

And the bridge, so far so good. Figure its more of a lawyer thing than a logic thing. Yes?


----------



## Samlock

Every constructor knows that signs won't stop people.

If the bridge was really about to collapse, they'd put a chain, dig a hole or haul a big stone to block crossing. At least they should.


----------



## slowp

Wear a life jacket. In 1987 or around therebouts, an old growth compatible, self propelled yarder went onto a bridge that had a much lower weight limit posted. The bridge collapsed. The yarder engineer went with the machine into the river. I believe he was the only one on the moving crew that could swim, and he was able to swim out. Divers had to be brought in to get it out. It was a local attraction for a while.


----------



## tramp bushler

I prolly wouldn't drive over it in my Terex . :msp_scared: 
How long is your commute.


----------



## hammerlogging

tramp bushler said:


> I prolly wouldn't drive over it in my Terex . :msp_scared:
> How long is your commute.



with the shortcut I'm at about 68 minutes, maybe 75 without the shortcut. 52.5 miles one way, not bad- just long enough to get my breakfast eaten, a couple cups of coffee, ready to hit the hill.


----------



## tramp bushler

hammerlogging said:


> with the shortcut I'm at about 68 minutes, maybe 75 without the shortcut. 52.5 miles one way, not bad- just long enough to get my breakfast eaten, a couple cups of coffee, ready to hit the hill.




And I thot I had it bad . 27 miles . About half an hour . Depends on whats on the radio .

One nice thing about being a sailor . No comute .


----------



## tramp bushler

*something arrived in the mail today.u*

After a very impacient wait ,I got a new toy today.





.





.I'm very impressed with the full wrap . I think it needs a brand name.




it was a pretty dsy today 28 below last night 20+ above today


----------



## tramp bushler

I was worried there wouldn't be enuf room between the wrap and the clutch cover . But thereis plenty . Also more room all the way around . As I wear chopper mitts alot in the winter I think I will Like them alot .


----------



## forestryworks

tramp bushler said:


> I was worried there wouldn't be enuf room between the wrap and the clutch cover . But thereis plenty . Also more room all the way around . As I wear chopper mitts alot in the winter I think I will Like them alot .



Glad it got there Glen!


----------



## Metals406

tramp bushler said:


> I was worried there wouldn't be enuf room between the wrap and the clutch cover . But thereis plenty . Also more room all the way around . As I wear chopper mitts alot in the winter I think I will Like them alot .



They were made with roominess in mind.

We're fixing to gear up to make more -- Stihl's at first, other manufacturers later.

When he's ready, my buddy's going to sponsor here to sell them.

Glad ya like it Tramp!


----------



## tramp bushler

Tofay eas the first day I've used the handlebar.
All around superior to any other handlebar I've used on a Stihl. . The only things I would change would be to use a greater diameter tubeing . But they r grrat the way they are !!!!!!


----------



## Metals406

tramp bushler said:


> Tofay eas the first day I've used the handlebar.
> All around superior to any other handlebar I've used on a Stihl. . The only things I would change would be to use a greater diameter tubeing . But they r grrat the way they are !!!!!!



Headed to my buddies shop in a few to help him setup a couple things, he's making a run of 40. We talked last night about having the coating thicker, and plan on talking to our guy to see what he can do.

If he can't uniformly make the coating thicker, stepping up tubing size may be an option.


----------



## Sport Faller

Metals406 said:


> Headed to my buddies shop in a few to help him setup a couple things, he's making a run of 40. We talked last night about having the coating thicker, and plan on talking to our guy to see what he can do.
> 
> If he can't uniformly make the coating thicker, stepping up tubing size may be an option.



They gonna be 046/044?
When you coat em can we blast a coat on my 66 wrap?


----------



## Metals406

bigskyjake said:


> They gonna be 046/044?
> When you coat em can we blast a coat on my 66 wrap?



Yup, they're 044/046, then some 066.

Sure thang, cut the other stuff off and it can be sprayed.


----------



## tramp bushler

Great . I'll have to get another one for my other 460 . They remind my of the bars on the 2100 Husky . And the USA hb .


----------



## bitzer

Nice pics Tramp! 

Well, just got off of a 2 week unpaid vacation. Spring came early. Its been in the 70s and 80s here. Just fricken crazy for this time of year. Records that aren't even on the books. Anyway things are startin to dry up. Not able to skid yet, but cuttin a few days a few week. 150 mile round tripper to the job.

Second stump of the day last Friday. I cut it pretty low to get one nice 8fter below the first crotch. Got a couple of logs after that. Yep, an ugly pig.






Coffee break. Its a 10 minute pack in so I've been dragging a lot of stuff in with me.





Already into the 2 gallon of water days. Too Early for that. Man, I got fat in two weeks.




View attachment 229904

View attachment 229885

View attachment 229886


----------



## Slamm

Bitzer, do you walk into where you have to cut or ride an ATV?

Sam


----------



## tramp bushler

Took me a minute to figure out why u had 2 gal of gas with u . Your running your 395 . Judgeing from the size of the stump compared to that 15" bananna that was around 4' on the stump wasn't it . How will u log that . Back or drive the forwarder lengthwise along the tree or can u reach all the logs from 1 end ?? . Looks good .


----------



## ChainsawmanXX

Found this one in a state park :banghead:


----------



## HorseFaller

ChainsawmanXX said:


> Found this one in a state park :banghead:



Death by stupidity!!


----------



## lfnh

ChainsawmanXX said:


> Found this one in a state park :banghead:



Beginning to wonder if there's a vast underground movement afoot that's promoting this stuff or is it just a fad that will go the way of the beanie-baby junk ?


----------



## Gologit

ChainsawmanXX said:


>




:monkey: Be on the look-out for an old ratty pickup with Oregon license plates. If you find him, keep him.


----------



## forestryworks

HorseFaller said:


> Death by stupidity!!



Natural selection, hopefully!


----------



## ken999

...phew....heck of a thread....I just finished reading it...all 291 pages. Took me about a week, reading 30 pages or so a night.

Hats off to all you fellas.


----------



## tramp bushler

ken999 said:


> ...phew....heck of a thread....I just finished reading it...all 291 pages. Took me about a week, reading 30 pages or so a night.
> 
> Hats off to all you fellas.



Far too daunting a task fo me . Hats off to u . Anythin good in there ??


----------



## tramp bushler

Heres a pic from tday





And heres a butt log where u can see the siswheel and my facing cuts


----------



## tramp bushler

Obviously the swirly buckskin isn't the tree I put the siswheel in . 

The one I swung you can see the holding wood line . 
Can see where I gunned and took the face out . And if you look close can see the compression line from the step in the kerf dutchmen . 

I had plowed out a short spur road to get to this tree . Had a screen of healthy understory between spur and tree . I wanted to grab a couple saplings with the tree as it fell so I wouldn't break it on the snow bank 
The tree leaned about 100 degrees from my chosen lay . Didn't have any wedges on me . 

A few cuts , aroubd she comes and down she goes


----------



## tramp bushler

I know it's not timber on the ground . But late winter sure is pretty here. Especially after a hard cold winter 

North to south . Sanford Drum Wrangel. Blackburn is to the south out of the pic ..


----------



## ken999

tramp bushler said:


> Anythin good in there ??



LOL...schittt yeah...I didn't know anything about a Siswheel, Dutchman/soft Dutchman, snipe etc etc etc...

I'm not a logger obviously, but I cut a fair amount of firewood for myself and others, and love running chainsaws.

Needless to say I've got some new cuts to play with...


----------



## tramp bushler

Just remember the cautions put forth . Billions and billions of feet of timber has been fell very well with basic falling techniques done well . Being able to read a tree is still first and foremost . 

But yes it does show some things guite well . I taught the man that broke me in falling how to use the siswheel . It works great on red alder . He's fell more timber than I .


----------



## ken999

tramp bushler said:


> Just remember the cautions put forth .



You betcha.


----------



## tramp bushler

RandyMac said:


> I just want one more tree and a few to practice on first.



Hey Randy , I'll 2 nd fall for ya on that .


----------



## RandyMac

tramp bushler said:


> I know it's not timber on the ground . But late winter sure is pretty here. Especially after a hard cold winter
> 
> North to south . Sanford Drum Wrangel. Blackburn is to the south out of the pic ..



Whatcha gonna do with that row of snags along the road?


----------



## paccity

just notch all of them and drop the last one.:msp_wink:


----------



## bitzer

Slamm- On the way in you could call it walking. The way out is more like stumbling. 

Tramp- That red oak was just outside of the tip across the hinge. All that root flair on those damn reds. Forwarding- Usually I try to lay everything in lead and pull up along side or in between to pick everything up. Whatever is easier. Unless I'm working a hill it doesn't really matter much. Cross leads are usually not a problem. 

This one was 56" at the longest measurement and 40" at the smallest. Damn red oaks seem so big until you get em on the ground. This was a hinge chaser. She stated lifting early and it was pin and gun from there. Helluva nice crash though! Tearing tops out from all over hell!











Swinging a leaner that had to be bored.




View attachment 230488

View attachment 230489

View attachment 230490


----------



## Sport Faller

paccity said:


> just notch all of them and drop the last one.:msp_wink:



Hell, they already got chokers on em and everything :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## HorseFaller

bitzer said:


> Slamm- On the way in you could call it walking. The way out is more like stumbling.
> 
> Tramp- That red oak was just outside of the tip across the hinge. All that root flair on those damn reds. Forwarding- Usually I try to lay everything in lead and pull up along side or in between to pick everything up. Whatever is easier. Unless I'm working a hill it doesn't really matter much. Cross leads are usually not a problem.
> 
> This one was 56" at the longest measurement and 40" at the smallest. Damn red oaks seem so big until you get em on the ground. This was a hinge chaser. She stated lifting early and it was pin and gun from there. Helluva nice crash though! Tearing tops out from all over hell!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Swinging a leaner that had to be bored.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 230488
> 
> View attachment 230489
> 
> View attachment 230490



Nice picture of the sis


----------



## coastalfaller

Around here we call the siswheel the "Johnny Hold Me Tight"! 

Thought you guys might get a kick out of that!


----------



## forestryworks

coastalfaller said:


> Around here we call the siswheel the "Johnny Hold Me Tight"!
> 
> Thought you guys might get a kick out of that!



:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Greenwedge

forestryworks said:


> :hmm3grin2orange:


WOW! Not sure I'd want to doublejack with whomever came up with that name! Holly Hold Me Tight, or The Wanda Wood Weld....Tough Hinge Tammy.....Hold my Wood Hanna....When you lose one over the Hill perhaps Against the Grain Gretta?......Which side of the log are you Okies bucking from anyway?! LOL


----------



## coastalfaller

Greenwedge said:


> WOW! Not sure I'd want to doublejack with whomever came up with that name! Holly Hold Me Tight, or The Wanda Wood Weld....Tough Hinge Tammy.....Hold my Wood Hanna....When you lose one over the Hill perhaps Against the Grain Gretta?......Which side of the log are you Okies bucking from anyway?! LOL



LOL I think it was Down the Hill Bill or Lost One Laurie....not sure though 

I like those names by the way.....I may suggest a couple of them....are they copyrighted?!


----------



## Greenwedge

coastalfaller said:


> lol i think it was down the hill bill or lost one laurie....not sure though
> 
> i like those names by the way.....i may suggest a couple of them....are they copyrighted?!



lol!


----------



## forestryworks

Greenwedge said:


> WOW! Not sure I'd want to doublejack with whomever came up with that name! Holly Hold Me Tight, or The Wanda Wood Weld....Tough Hinge Tammy.....Hold my Wood Hanna....When you lose one over the Hill perhaps Against the Grain Gretta?......Which side of the log are you Okies bucking from anyway?! LOL



Whatchu quoting me for? I didn't say it nor am I an Okie lol!

How long you Idahizzle boys been holding tight to Dolly up there? :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Greenwedge

forestryworks said:


> Whatchu quoting me for? I didn't say it nor am I an Okie lol!
> 
> How long you Idahizzle boys been holding tight to Dolly up there? :hmm3grin2orange:



Idahizzle!!!LOL. Clicked the wrong one, I thought it it was you...as far as the Okie comment, It's not about geographics, but more a state of mind and metal's done told me that you're a purebred! I wouldn't worry about being called an Okie by a guy that wears a cowboy hat all the time and just had a pair of Justin lacer's caulked! LOL


----------



## Greenwedge

Haywire said:


> Hey Pat, did you ever see these? How'd you end up doing that day?



What the......? Who the Hell is that? Never seen that guy before......He sure is a handsome devil, however.......I heared "notice my Okieness for not saying heard?" his chains do not cut worth beans!


----------



## tramp bushler

RandyMac said:


> Whatcha gonna do with that row of snags along the road?



Those flat top spike snags are real spendy . They run about $4 k each . .plus when you get them u don't have to run a generator .


----------



## Greenwedge

Haywire said:


> Hey Pat, did you ever see these? How'd you end up doing that day?



Too answer your question not well.....Behind every Bad Cutter, cut, lay, decision, etc. there's a hell of an excuse.....whether that excuse has any relevance too said problem is always debatable.....but let me tell you friend......I have a hell of a story/excuse.....I assure you that it will be told in my favor to the best of my ability, therefore......well.....its basically not worth telling! lol............Ok.......here it goes, and as any good story worth telling is told.......Now this is no Bull####...I had over 70 hours into my chain that I was building for this show. The day before the race I was testing it out so I could make some last minute adjustments. I was boring through and hit a big knot and it broke off a tooth in the bore cut...as you can imagane, beings it was a bore cut, the tooth stayed in there and basically destroyed my chain, mind you, this is the day before the show. I did not sleep that night, trying my level best to make a competitive chain in less than 24 hrs. Somehow in my rush I managed to grind one side of the very front of my rakers off at 35 degrees which in turn made the front of my rakers on that side sharp, and the other side at 0 like they are supposed to be. As soon as I started boring I knew I was out of the running. She was a jumping and a chattering and a pulling hard to the right side of the cut....just a real bad deal. Note the look of disgust on my face when I'm walking away and also the double cut on the log. You had to be.....I think between 10 and 12 to be in the money and I believe that I ran a hair over 15........I was way out of the running, but what really made me look good (which I blame on not getting any sleep the night before.....I always have an excuse!) was the rigging fit I threw afterwards. I strung together a collage of profanity the included female gender, livestock, my brother in law Cody, somebody's mother, more livestock, Cody again, something about a male chicken and suction......I think that's about it! Needless to say, I was very embarrassed at both my chain and my composure........Cant wait till the next one!!!:jester:


----------



## RandyMac

It takes a real man to string together the proper phrases to fit the situation.


----------



## Rounder

Greenwedge said:


> What the......? Who the Hell is that? Never seen that guy before......He sure is a handsome devil, however.......I heared "notice my Okieness for not saying heard?" his chains do not cut worth beans!



Talk like that......you must be related to Cody, lol.


----------



## tramp bushler

And the lesson here is ?????????????? 

Don't bore into knots .? 
Don't be related to Cody . ?
Unless your cutting red cedar don't side swipe your riders ? 
Get lots of sleep . ? 
Run a Husky :msp_unsure:


----------



## Greenwedge

tramp bushler said:


> And the lesson here is ??????????????
> 
> Don't bore into knots .?
> Don't be related to Cody . ?
> Unless your cutting red cedar don't side swipe your riders ?
> Get lots of sleep . ?
> Run a Husky :msp_unsure:



1- Did not (Knot) know it was there.....More investigation perhaps?
2- I'm related to Cody by choice....love him like a brother....in fact he is my brother...
3- I did not mean to side swipe my rakers as is evident from the above story...I was however trying to put a pocket in front of the raker to help pack out chips which I know for a fact helps clean the cut now matter what kind of wood you are cutting...It's the angle that fouled me which was a hurried mistake.
4- It was sleep or no show......never been the no show type.
5- Too each there own....I purchased a 394 and a 390.....both disappointing me but in this competition everyone had to run the same saw....It's all about the chain.
6- Just because I admit my mistakes and take blame for my faults do not mistake me for a rookie.....Realization of fault and admittance to failure is a step forward to success.....as soon as you realize this you will be running Stihl's! LOL


----------



## RandyMac

stihls must have improved greatly, they were considered over-weight, over-priced and under-powered.
I didn't see Huskies in my woods until the '80s.


----------



## coastalfaller

When I was first breaking in, I worked for one of the best falling contractors in BC, if not the best. Great man. Anyway, he would supply saws _IF you ran Husky. If you wanted a Stihl, you had to buy your own! lol He called them "baby saws". That's stuck with me all these years! I find a Stihl akin to packing around a box with handles on it! Unweildy. Has to be something to them though I guess, a few guys use them! _


----------



## Greenwedge

LOL, like I said to each there own. I was only fun'n Tramp....not trying to get the whole Stihl and Husky thing going. I know a lot of good hands that run Husky's.


----------



## Greenwedge

RandyMac said:


> stihls must have improved greatly, they were considered over-weight, over-priced and under-powered.
> I didn't see Huskies in my woods until the '80s.



Yes Randy, they must have.


----------



## coastalfaller

Greenwedge said:


> LOL, like I said to each there own. I was only fun'n Tramp....not trying to get the whole Stihl and Husky thing going. I know a lot of good hands that run Husky's.



Haha! No worries! Like I said, I know a couple guys that run them too!


----------



## forestryworks

Haywire said:


> Great Stihl shop you guys have over there in town. Not many places left you can buy a 660, an AK-47, and a radiator hose for your truck all at the same place anymore The owner's wicked friendly too.



I've been told by a guy that Olive's does a good hop up on a saw.


----------



## tramp bushler

Greenwedge said:


> 1- Did not (Knot) know it was there.....More investigation perhaps?
> 2- I'm related to Cody by choice....love him like a brother....in fact he is my brother...
> 3- I did not mean to side swipe my rakers as is evident from the above story...I was however trying to put a pocket in front of the raker to help pack out chips which I know for a fact helps clean the cut now matter what kind of wood you are cutting...It's the angle that fouled me which was a hurried mistake.
> 4- It was sleep or no show......never been the no show type.
> 5- Too each there own....I purchased a 394 and a 390.....both disappointing me but in this competition everyone had to run the same saw....It's all about the chain.
> 6- Just because I admit my mistakes and take blame for my faults do not mistake me for a rookie.....Realization of fault and admittance to failure is a step forward to success.....as soon as you realize this you will be running Stihl's! LOL



I was just goofin too . . I would like Stihls better if they would give their handle bars a 2" strech fore and aft . . Their great for a short bar . Suck with a long bar . But as is I owne more stihls than I do Huskies at the moment .


----------



## Greenwedge

Haywire said:


> Great Stihl shop you guys have over there in town. Not many places left you can buy a 660, an AK-47, and a radiator hose for your truck all at the same place anymore The owner's wicked friendly too.



Yes sir. One of the best! I think the world of Dwain Olive. I used to cut for him when he was contracting. He's a hell of a saw, man, and businesshead.


----------



## RandyMac

The full wraps being too "tight" was one of my complaints with the 050/75s, loss of leverage and range of angle.


----------



## tramp bushler

Ya . They were pretty close in . I thot Germans had great big lunch hooks . . I know a bunch of guys who really liked the 075 . I had a couple of them . Spent 1 winter bucking firewood with an 075 with a 50" cannon on it . Sometimes I would have to block out on the side so I could get the heart cut . The pulp mill gave me a bunch of oversize that was too big for them to process . 

I didn't have to block out this one . Biggest tree of the winter


----------



## Greenwedge

tramp bushler said:


> Ya . They were pretty close in . I thot Germans had great big lunch hooks . . I know a bunch of guys who really liked the 075 . I had a couple of them . Spent 1 winter bucking firewood with an 075 with a 50" cannon on it . Sometimes I would have to block out on the side so I could get the heart cut . The pulp mill gave me a bunch of oversize that was too big for them to process .
> 
> I didn't have to block out this one . Biggest tree of the winter



Looks like she went over backwards?


----------



## Metals406

Greenwedge said:


> Looks like she went over backwards?



Looks like a deep face and a post to hold it over, and he dutched his wood on the off side.


----------



## Jacob J.

RandyMac said:


> The full wraps being too "tight" was one of my complaints with the 050/75s, loss of leverage and range of angle.



There was an aftermarket full-wrap handle for the 051/075/076 made in the early 80's by a gent in Ft. Bragg. It was a much more comfortable
handle to run on those saws. It was taller and a little bit wider and had the oversize grips like the modern day Pro-Safety handles.


----------



## tramp bushler

Metals406 said:


> Looks like a deep face and a post to hold it over, and he dutched his wood on the off side.



Yup . Alot of times I'm a little low on my far side . With the deep face I didn't have to tap a wedge . Topped it out in the middle of the road , slight quarter leade so I didn't have to wade thru snow when I got done limbing and the loader had good traction to break it out of its bed . .


----------



## tramp bushler

Todays labor of love . 6 hours port to port . Had to put in 400' of road to get them



.
.



.


----------



## ken999

Nice job TB...


----------



## Driver625

Nice looking load Tramp.


----------



## tramp bushler

Todays load wasn't as pretty but it pays the same .






I gotta go hunting another patch of timber tomorrow.


----------



## tramp bushler

The college edjucates say that Tazlina lake used to be huge . And the theory is that when it receeded it left bands of drift silt then bare gravel then silt and on and on .
So the better timber grew in the better drained soil . The better wood seems to grow in rows that :msp_unsure:run northeast to southwest . Then there will be black spruce muskegs then better timber . Most of the good stuff is hid from the highway so any loggers who go thru on the highway don't see it . 
At this point I think I'm the only working operation in the basin . :msp_rolleyes:


----------



## Plankton

Some Pines


----------



## redprospector

Plankton,
Lookin' pretty good, but you might want to back up another step or 2.

Andy


----------



## paccity

redprospector said:


> Plankton,
> Lookin' pretty good, but you might want to back up another step or 2.
> 
> Andy



young and cocky.:msp_rolleyes: he will learn.:msp_wink:. nice job plankton.


----------



## forestryworks

paccity said:


> young and cocky.:msp_rolleyes: he will learn.:msp_wink:. nice job plankton.



Learned my lesson two years ago!


----------



## paccity

crumpler. did you see chucks fb post? get up there.


----------



## forestryworks

paccity said:


> crumpler. did you see chucks fb post? get up there.



Saw it. Working on it!


----------



## RandyMac

"The Cutter" Michael Hawkins Cutting Down Trees In Clatsop County Or. With a 390 xp 32 inch Bar 2012 - YouTube

http://youtu.be/KUQabKZ9taw


----------



## Plankton

Thanks always learning! I do tend to stand a little close 

This is the ugly stump in the last photo






I got some more online today












Thats it for me real hard to take photos when theres trees to fall!


----------



## tramp bushler

I recomend a new hardhat . Nice looking cutting .


----------



## tramp bushler

RandyMac said:


> "The Cutter" Michael Hawkins Cutting Down Trees In Clatsop County Or. With a 390 xp 32 inch Bar 2012 - YouTube
> 
> "The Cutter" Falling Large Second Growth Doug Fir - YouTube



A little too much driving for my liking . Make too much of a habit of that and you'll end up a red smear on the hill side . 

And I've driven Lots of timber .


----------



## coastalfaller

Finally found this one and got it uploaded.


----------



## tramp bushler

Thats a nice fatty . .
Was that taken reciently . 
U guys don't have ferns growing already do u ?


----------



## coastalfaller

tramp bushler said:


> Thats a nice fatty . .
> Was that taken reciently .
> U guys don't have ferns growing already do u ?



Nope, that was in 2004, on the Charlottes. Note the no hi vis! lol I wish we had the ferns, still a ton of snow in most of our settings. I was on the cat opening up a road this past week, hopped off to check the depth where I had just cut the bank.....snow was up to my chin.....I'm 6'2"!!! Brutal.


----------



## Cedarkerf

Plankton said:


> Thanks always learning! I do tend to stand a little close
> 
> This is the ugly stump in the last photo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thats it for me real hard to take photos when theres trees to fall!



Nice groomed forest floor youve got there must be nice to see the ground:jester:

View attachment 232729
View attachment 232729


----------



## Gologit

Cedarkerf said:


>



It's a good thing you're tall, Brian. Otherwise you'd have to have a flashing red light on top of your tin hat so we could see you.


----------



## KiwiBro

RandyMac said:


> "The Cutter" Michael Hawkins Cutting Down Trees In Clatsop County Or. With a 390 xp 32 inch Bar 2012 - YouTube
> 
> "The Cutter" Falling Large Second Growth Doug Fir - YouTube



Thanks. Please excuse my ignorance, but what's the reason why he stays at the stump, cutting into his hinge once he knows it's going where he wants it to go? Notwithstanding the time when he's looking for some bias and therefore cutting more on one side of the hinge, it still seems quite a bit of time at the stump when others I've seen would be on their way out of the potential branch drop zone.

My thinking is that can't be the safest of places to be but as always seems to be the case, there's more going on than first impressions might suggest so I'll be the stupid one and ask.

Is the wind having anything to do with it (looks pretty much downwind)? Keep the holding wood to get her started then keep gunning it to avoid barber chairing or end checking, once the drop direction has been established?


----------



## Gologit

You're close. The main reason to stay on it is to steer the tree a little better. If the wind is directly behind you and it's blowing hard enough it can start the tree over before you're ready for it. A good sharp fast saw in the hands of somebody who knows what he's doing will get that tree off of the stump _before_ the wind takes it. Or, you can play the wind and saw it up at just the right time. That means staying at the stump. 

If the tree starts over a little too soon it will still probably go where you planned but it might chair and there might be excessive fibre pull. That happens but it's best to keep it to a minimum.

Chasing the hinge isn't always the best thing to do and until you really know what's going on it can even make things worse. Cutting off a corner, especially in the wind, might have you trying out your escape path.

Staying at the stump is okay if you're sure what the tree will do. I do it. Sometimes. If you ever figure out a way to be 100 % sure what the tree will do every time please let the rest of us know.

Until then, get away from the stump if you don't have to be there.


----------



## RandyMac

Bob covers it pretty well.

and Mike knows I would call him a fiber puller.


----------



## KiwiBro

Thanks for that.


----------



## madhatte

Damn fine day in the woods. Cleared some road first then investigated the veracity of a recent wetland survey. Found a stand of no-#### OG spruce in the last place I'd expect to find it. Measured local-champion hemlock, spruce, and maple. It was sunny out, too. Don't get much better'n that.


----------



## 056 kid

I found a nice K bar in his shieth a while back. Had it in the car when it went for service and realized a few weeks later that someone had stolen it. I wish I had realized earlier, it takes some nerve to steal from the vehicles that you work on at your job. . .
Old boss man has found a number of rusty pistols over the years. My favorites are the old glass insulators, and cork cap bottles. I've found most of them by stepping on them with corks through the leaves and such. .


----------



## Plankton

Cedarkerf said:


> Nice groomed forest floor youve got there must be nice to see the ground:jester:
> 
> View attachment 232729
> View attachment 232729




Yeah it was a resort/retreat center place, flat ground no brush!! But lots of thread the needle near cabins shots.

thats some serious undergrowth there though wow!


----------



## slowp

Here's a picture of a "felled" patch. There is a yarder--a Madill 071 in the picture. This was in the second half of the 1980s. The fallers had cut the tail trees which were thought to be needed for lift. The logger rigged up a rider block and was able to get one end suspension, which they demonstrated by hooking a log at both ends and getting total suspension. 

This shows the typical terrain of that time. The units usually were flattish on the top, then there would be a bluff, and then it ran down to the creek. We always found a way--usually with vegetation belays to get through the rock bluffs. After logging, the vegetation belays would be in short supply so I usually did a butt slide down. I had tough pants. :msp_smile: When we burned, we used a firehose belay. 

I didn't consider this ground to be steep at that time. There was way worse ground west of Morton that we had to work in. Way worse...

The slash was deep in these old growth units. A guy I was learning from stepped in a spot and disappeared. He was over 6 feet tall. 




View attachment 233700


----------



## floyd

I really hated it when I ran out of places to go 4-6' above the forest floor on jackstrawed, beetle killed lodgepole pine.

Remember the YUM & PUM days? Made the units easier to get around in. If one did not get lost in the ravines caused by run off.


----------



## hammerlogging

Amazon.com: Skookum Sal, Birling Gal (9781550172850): Heather Kellerhals-Stewart, Janice Blaine: Books


----------



## hammerlogging

Figured I'd see if there were bars or calks on Amazon before I placed an order and this is what I found.


----------



## bitzer

Hammer- Thats the kind of stuff I need to stock around the house for the kid's bedtime stories. I've had enough of Dr. Seuss- Damn hippie tree huggin sob!


Heres a couple from the last week. Making some progress where I can. Rain this afternoon though so I cut and called her a day.

Last weeks landing. Maybe 20mbf and about 60 cords in the background. The wood was pretty small on the second half of this job. 





This week's landing. About 12mbf so far. A lot of beech, hard maple, and basswood on this job. Lots of old wood. The wood is fairly tall though for around here. 50-60ft of logs in a lot of the stems.





Dumpin and swingin a big ugly ole maple.





Takin the jacket off of a dead elm. This job was marked two years ago so this tree and others were probably alive then. Still some good wood in this one. I pulled the bark off before I back cut it. I didn't want to get clobbered. 





Dead fence-line ash- a little sketchy, but a deep undercut saved some wedging. 60ft of straight logs in this one and still some ok wood. Busted the top up good so no pulpin! 





View attachment 234659

View attachment 234660

View attachment 234661

View attachment 234662

View attachment 234663


----------



## Metals406

Good stuff Bitz!! 

That's a good looking stump on the fence line tree.


----------



## Greystoke

Yes it is! And I thought hardwoods had to e fell with a borecut and saginaw face :msp_biggrin:


----------



## tramp bushler

Lookin great !! . I'm glad for ya that you can get some wood on the landing ... nice time of year . You and Mingo can see everything but probably not too buggy yet . Need more forwarder pics . 
How you utilize it . 
Sometimes if I get a full face Dutchman , I just put in another little kerf under it . If its a funky snag that may come apart on the way down I clean up the face real good . .

Are you cuttin timber or pullin stumps:msp_w00t::hmm3grin2orange::msp_thumbsup:

When its time to run . You run .


----------



## Rounder

My Heli-Hell hole. Block on the left, one above on the right. Straight down the hill, top at 4", lop top.....repeat.

View attachment 234732


Only 11 more blocks to go.......

Nice scenery though.

View attachment 234733


View attachment 234735


Hey Cody....juicy cutting and we need 4 temp cutters ASAP...Great cutting....Would I lie?

Hope you all had a good, safe week - Sam


----------



## Metals406

Rounder said:


> My Heli-Hell hole. Block on the left, one above on the right. Straight down the hill, top at 4", lop top.....repeat.
> 
> View attachment 234732
> 
> 
> Only 11 more blocks to go.......
> 
> Nice scenery though.
> 
> View attachment 234733
> 
> 
> View attachment 234735
> 
> 
> Hey Cody....juicy cutting and we need 4 temp cutters ASAP...Great cutting....Would I lie?
> 
> Hope you all had a good, safe week - Sam



What's wrong with that strip? Doesn't look like glorious 5' wood, but the ground seems nice.


----------



## Rounder

Metals406 said:


> What's wrong with that strip? Doesn't look like glorious 5' wood, but the ground seems nice.



It'd be dandy tree-lengthing, but the up down, up down, sniping/lopping tops........A guy gets spoiled tree-lengthing and log lengthing all the time.


----------



## Metals406

Rounder said:


> It'd be dandy tree-lengthing, but the up down, up down, sniping/lopping tops........A guy gets spoiled tree-lengthing and log lengthing all the time.



I guess I'm a bit confused to why they aren't tree-lengthing, and why you have to cut snipes. Is there no processor on the landing? Is this a cat/skidder side, or cable?

It would blow topping all day. . . I think you just need to embrace the suck!


----------



## Rounder

Metals406 said:


> I guess I'm a bit confused to why they aren't tree-lengthing, and why you have to cut snipes. Is there no processor on the landing? Is this a cat/skidder side, or cable?
> 
> It would blow topping all day. . . I think you just need to embrace the suck!



Yep, topping all day. This stuff's all getting flown out. $30 per minute. So it needs to come out quick. Fell towards the pad, hooker hooks the butt, helo picks up, flops it over on the cut top and goes like hell for the landing.

Don't want that ####er spending much time hoovering for less than great wood.....Hopefully the hookers are worth a #### and pull their end of the deal. Wood has got to move real fast. 2 minute turn fast.


----------



## Gologit

Rounder said:


> Yep, topping all day. This stuff's all getting flown out. $30 per minute. So it needs to come out quick. Fell towards the pad, hooker hooks the butt, helo picks up, flops it over on the cut top and goes like hell for the landing.
> 
> Don't want that ####er spending much time hoovering for less than great wood.....Hopefully the hookers are worth a #### and pull their end of the deal. Wood has got to move real fast. 2 minute turn fast.



Not much margin for error on a show like that. What kind of helicopter?


----------



## coastalfaller

Rounder said:


> Yep, topping all day. This stuff's all getting flown out. $30 per minute. So it needs to come out quick. Fell towards the pad, hooker hooks the butt, helo picks up, flops it over on the cut top and goes like hell for the landing.
> 
> Don't want that ####er spending much time hoovering for less than great wood.....Hopefully the hookers are worth a #### and pull their end of the deal. Wood has got to move real fast. 2 minute turn fast.



Won't they let you lay it out sidehill? At least saves you walking up and down the hill all day long. That's brutal!


----------



## Metals406

Rounder said:


> Yep, topping all day. This stuff's all getting flown out. $30 per minute. So it needs to come out quick. Fell towards the pad, hooker hooks the butt, helo picks up, flops it over on the cut top and goes like hell for the landing.
> 
> Don't want that ####er spending much time hoovering for less than great wood.....Hopefully the hookers are worth a #### and pull their end of the deal. Wood has got to move real fast. 2 minute turn fast.



That rate sounds about right. . . Back in the late 90's I worked under a Bell Ranger that was $1k and hour for fuel, and the pilot got $250 and hour.

I don't know if I'd wanna mess with that goat-rope 'fast as you can' helo-logging. . . Too many would be focused on speed and stuff can go bad fast.


----------



## Samlock

Metals406 said:


> That rate sounds about right. . . Back in the late 90's I worked under a Bell Ranger that was $1k and hour for fuel, and the pilot got $250 and hour.
> 
> I don't know if I'd wanna mess with that goat-rope 'fast as you can' helo-logging. . . Too many would be focused on speed and stuff can go bad fast.



####, I've never cut for a helicopter, but I've cut a lot for a harvester coming right behind. Not a good feeling when a big machine is pushing your back. That routine Sam is going to do must be 1000 times worse. Kinda blows off your focusing when you need to keep looking over your shoulder.


----------



## coastalfaller

Metals406 said:


> That rate sounds about right. . . Back in the late 90's I worked under a Bell Ranger that was $1k and hour for fuel, and the pilot got $250 and hour.
> 
> I don't know if I'd wanna mess with that goat-rope 'fast as you can' helo-logging. . . Too many would be focused on speed and stuff can go bad fast.



It's not bad when you get some lead time and can get the setting down ahead of time. With the way markets are and people trying to hit them just right, however, the lead on the heli rarely happens! Usually after you're about a week or two in, you get the message, "oh, by the way, the helicopter is showing up in 4 days"! Lovely!


----------



## Samlock

coastalfaller said:


> It's not bad when you get some lead time and can get the setting down ahead of time. With the way markets are and people trying to hit them just right, however, the lead on the heli rarely happens! Usually after you're about a week or two in, you get the message, "oh, by the way, the helicopter is showing up in 4 days"! Lovely!



Haha. That goes with the cases a faller gets chased by a harvester as well. With a just a wee bit of anticipation most of the running away from a juggernaut could be avoided. But in reality, by the time contractor realizes that the harvester won't handle the timber (too fat trees, steep slopes, power lines or other obstacles), they usually have already pooped the job, first trying to manage without a faller and then waiting for him to show up. The faller's bill won't naturally improve the case, in terms of money, so they'll try to compensate the wasted time and money blowing the fumes on your neck.

Anyhow, a harvester costs 120-130$ per hour, so there's some pressure, but not worth 3$ a minute. At least so far they've allowed me to refill.


----------



## Rounder

coastalfaller said:


> Won't they let you lay it out sidehill? At least saves you walking up and down the hill all day long. That's brutal!



I guess on Monday we're going to try quartering it. Just trying to make it fly fast. The cutting end of things got a little overlooked on this one. Irritating. Hopefully have a few more cutters......but they don't seem to exist.


----------



## coastalfaller

Rounder said:


> I guess on Monday we're going to try quartering it. Just trying to make it fly fast. The cutting end of things got a little overlooked on this one. Irritating. Hopefully have a few more cutters......but they don't seem to exist.



Yep, that can happen alright. I love the settings where the wood is 180 ft tall and the side lines are 90ft apart. Or where the lines going up the hill suddenly start narrowing to a point to chase a big pumpkin at the top of a setting. No where left to put it but down the hill. Right smack across all your fell and buck that you worked so hard to save out.


----------



## Gologit

coastalfaller said:


> It's not bad when you get some lead time and can get the setting down ahead of time. With the way markets are and people trying to hit them just right, however, the lead on the heli rarely happens! Usually after you're about a week or two in, you get the message, "oh, by the way, the helicopter is showing up in 4 days"! Lovely!



C'mon, I though you Canadians were more organized than that. 
 
What I always watch for, and dread, is a big upsurge in the pine market. That's when we get those Chinese Fire Drill jobs...you know the kind. "Can you start tomorrow and be done yesterday? We're moving the skidders and the shovel in now and the landings are almost done." Some things never change.


----------



## Rounder

It's kind of gotten to be a pain. The mills call and want the wood yesterday. Got to work into everything, yarder up your ass, delimber up the yarder's ass, loader up the delimber's ass. Not very efficient when everybody's waiting on everybody.

Seems like Europe has things figured out a lot better. New Zealand too from what I've read.

We're pretty far behind the times here.


----------



## coastalfaller

Yep, we've had entire settings on the ground before the grade crew even gets in the block. It's gotten pretty good again for that, most roads are in before we get there again, but there are definitely settings where we're all bottlenecked. Grade crew chasing the r/w fallers. Fallers chasing the grade crew on the setting. Yarder chasing the fallers. Loader chasing the yarder. Ahhhh, logging, gotta love it! You actually really do have to love it!!! Otherwise what the hell would we be doing out here?!


----------



## tramp bushler

Ya , no , you guys are alot more understanding than me . Thats why I like cutting tower ground for a pulp mill . . 
Thats why I haven't cut for a bird outfit . They chase me I'de chase them . 
Best I just stay away from them . 

Cuttin right of way in small wood sucks too . If the hoe is there . When I get some big fatties that the pioneer can't push over . I'll jump past and cut a few stations then go back and fall them .
. Yup , I don't tolerate getting pushed.


----------



## Rounder

tramp bushler said:


> Ya , no , you guys are alot more understanding than me . Thats why I like cutting tower ground for a pulp mill . .
> Thats why I haven't cut for a bird outfit . They chase me I'de chase them .
> Best I just stay away from them .
> 
> Cuttin right of way in small wood sucks too . If the hoe is there . When I get some big fatties that the pioneer can't push over . I'll jump past and cut a few stations then go back and fall them .
> . Yup , I don't tolerate getting pushed.



Yep. I've got my pace and that's that. They ain't going to pass me.


----------



## Rounder

Ahhhh, logging, gotta love it! You actually really do have to love it!!! Otherwise what the hell would we be doing out here?! 

I think we need proffesional help........at least my wife thinks I do.........


----------



## Metals406

Rounder said:


> Ahhhh, logging, gotta love it! You actually really do have to love it!!! Otherwise what the hell would we be doing out here?!
> 
> I think we need proffesional help........at least my wife thinks I do.........



Well in your case, she's right, and it has nothing to do with logging!


----------



## tramp bushler

Another thing that makes me go ballistic , is some guy that wants to cut in my back pocket . ..
I really don't like flagged strip lines . But with some guys you just gotta have the bull buck flag them in . .
Then there are the bull bucks that give every one a 200' wide strip in 150' tall timber . 

Is it any wonder that I work alone . 
Only thing that has kept some people alive is that Jesus didn't Save me so I could murder them .!


----------



## Rounder

tramp bushler said:


> Another thing that makes me go ballistic , is some guy that wants to cut in my back pocket . ..
> I really don't like flagged strip lines . But with some guys you just gotta have the bull buck flag them in . .
> Then there are the bull bucks that give every one a 200' wide strip in 150' tall timber .
> 
> Is it any wonder that I work alone .
> Only thing that has kept some people alive is that Jesus didn't Save me so I could murder them .!



Don't care for that either. At least when you're tree lengthing you can cut a couple tanks straight up the hill and get them corralled a bit. Kind of a pain, but it's worth it with certain guys....They usually get the point.


----------



## hammerlogging

Rounder said:


> Yep. I've got my pace and that's that. They ain't going to pass me.



Yup, maybe I've quoted my bud before, they can catch me, but they can't pass me. 

Its funny how different some things are in different places, but then how alike. I know I HATE having machines around me. 

I do all the falling, but I also organize the logging, manage the wood flow, flag the roads, all that ####. So I know whats ahead, how far the skid is, how much winching, how thick the timber, etc. If they start getting within a few hours of me, they're gonna get a hard day or two of logging---- steep, lots of cable pulling, longer skids, something to give me some breathing room-- what difference does it make, it all has to go-- I'll hit those spots when we're days ahead of the trucking too, its all part of maintaining the balance within the system. 

Its really interesting about ya'll's softwoods something I've picked up on cutting some white pine patches- I really take advantage of cutting 3 or 5 or 8 stems and then topping, but thats hardwoods. With white pine, or your species, I have a hard time seeing how dropping multiple stems is beneficial since the limbs are so much more bottom to top. 

that up and down will kill you, it gets to my knees, lots of pounding. I guess sidehilling is a part of sustainable forestry.


----------



## tramp bushler

I could name names ( but I won't) where doing that was simple a matter of survival . 
Course with 3 of them noone needs to worry about them . They're dead .


----------



## bitzer

Goddamit I wanna cut some steep ground! All this talk about tall trees and short lay outs sounds fun. Things can get kind of ho-hum when I'm on too many flats. Anybody want to trade for a week or two? I may need to hire someone to pick up wood for me just to make things interesting. 

Thanks for the props boys! 

Tramp- I will see what I can do about getting some picking up pics this week. Its supposed to stay dry.


----------



## hammerlogging

never wish away your flats! the only thing I can say for my timber is that its probably taller. AND, one very fone thing about steep ground is that youn are far more likely to have the vast majority of the timber to be leaning the same way. Flats, there's it'll lean lots of different directions which can #### up your pattern and make you dance around cutting this or this first because of irregular leans. Nice and systematic is how i like it,j just enough slope so its alltending the same way. But step, though exciting and often harboring some really nice big timber, is harder, mcuh harder.


----------



## Metals406

Yup, tall ground throws in a whole different dynamic than flat.

Like if you happen to be falling tops up, and the lay has a rise. . . The tree can buck up in the air, turn towards your happy place (escape), and run back at you. Larch are real sketchy like that, as there ain't a lot of limb mass to hold her down. . . Them things love to run.

That's just one example, and there's a bunch more.


----------



## tramp bushler

On the outer coast , the wind blows every day , always has so alot of the timber leans up the hill pretty hard . . It can be a nightmare just getting it on the ground and staying alive . The timber can be huge , but given my option , I'll take a 60% hill and 2 bushel hemlock any day .

Cutting flats can be slow like Hammer said , this one goes here , that one over there , gotta swamp out over there , pack over there to get that one down then come back here to get this one down . .
Walk, walk , walk :msp_sad:


----------



## bitzer

Thats just it, walk, walk, walk. Typically I will get a grouping of maybe 5-10 trees and its a puzzle to lay them out the best way. The hills I have cut pretty much lay out for me and depending on the exposure seem to cut out pretty easily. That makes sense, but for some reason it hadn't really dawned on me until now. Dumb. Still it seems like you can do some pretty fun things with gravity and slopes. Eh I better hit the sack. Took way too long sharpening chains tonight and I've got to get up in about 5 hours. I'll dream of steep hills and 2 bushel red oaks.


----------



## hammerlogging

tramp bushler said:


> Walk, walk , walk :msp_sad:


 precisely!


----------



## Greystoke

Rounder said:


> Hey Cody....juicy cutting and we need 4 temp cutters ASAP...Great cutting....Would I lie?



Not me pard. Just had my nose roto rootered and my tree jobs are startin to stack up. I left a number on that old stubborn pot lickers message machine anyhow  What helicopter outfit is it? You guys were all talkin about gettin hot logged...Columbia used to do that #### all the time. I have literally had hookers chokin the butt of a tree that I was workin up...you just had to learn to make the best of it. Sometimes you could use the rotor wash to help push a tree  Biggest thing that used to piss me off is on jobs where they were flyin us in, they would always fly the hookers in first, and you would get to your saw and there would be a hooker right there by it with a bunch of turns set :bang: Sometimes I had fun working with some of those riggin rats.


----------



## bitzer

A few this week-

Tramp- Usually how I lay the trees out depends on the save trees. A lot of times I will find the best hole to put them in and open up that area. Its almost like pockets of clear cut. Like here. There are 2 maples and 3 beech buried in the picture. When its nearly clear cut its easier to pick everything up later too. When I do come in to pick up I'll back up to about the middle of the big maple- perpendicular to it. The landing is off to the right and I always back in the woods to the trees. I will pick up what is directly behind me and whatever else I can reach and bunk it. Then I'll back through the hole and pick up the rest on the left and right of me. There should be enough here to fill up. Sometimes I have to pull ahead and back to move over a little here and there. It seems like the key is too keep moving. If the boom is fully extended, unless its for the last piece its a waste of time. I usually pull together smaller stuff to make a grapple full before I swing it up on the bunk. If its a bigger log I have to swing one at a time. Smaller straight saw timber I can almost bunch up the logs from the whole tree before I swing it onto the bunk. The more bunching before I swing the faster it goes. If the wood was parallel to the main skid trail and I laid it either close enough or left a gap to drive in between I will pull alongside (parallel) and load it that way. If one tree is off by itself I find the easiest hole to dump it in and pound in with the machine to get it later. 






These basswoods were all tied together. The one closest to the camera was on the far side of the big stump and leaning 180 away from the lay. The furthest small one was in front of the big stump and leaning pretty hard to the left of the lay. I dutched the crap out of that one. The big one was leaning ahead and to the left so it needed a dutch too. I bored this one becuase it was a flat out sprint situation and I was not going to try chasing the hinge. I was not 100% sure how that one on the far stump was going to act and when it was going to let go. They behaved. 





Hit the hole! 10- 8 fters and 2 10s. Several of them were number 1s. The best looking basswood I've seen in a while. 





Topped and skidded back. Everything is supposed to stay out of the creek on this one. Godamit I'm a long winded son of a ##### today. 





View attachment 235675

View attachment 235676

View attachment 235677

View attachment 235678


----------



## tramp bushler

Looks nice . Thanks for the explanation . You ran a Stihl tday :confused2:
460 or 660 ? Do u use a tape or your saw to measure your logs ?


----------



## beelsr

tramp bushler said:


> Todays load wasn't as pretty but it pays the same .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gotta go hunting another patch of timber tomorrow.




(Hate quoting pics, but) just noticed the shovel on top. Didn't lose it, didja? :msp_unsure:


----------



## KiwiBro

Anyone remember that old show the Beverly hill billies? The theme song started playing in my head when I looked at that picture above. Jed with the wagon all loaded, all sorts tied off to it.


----------



## tramp bushler

Nope .I swung it around and netseled it in between 2 fatties 
. Can't loose my coal scoop.


----------



## tramp bushler

Well . Put you in a sub arctic enviornment in the winter . Working alone , off highway on a winter road . Running old iron . Everything I do either takes time , costs money or adds weight . . A shovel + some empty jugs doesn't add a thing . And it makes stupid city people want to pass me and smart drivers to stay out of the way . And it gives me something to do with my strap ends . 

No doubt your rollin in $$ but for me a 400$ day is ok . Thats a 400$ load . Just right . The truk is paid for + the loader is too .


----------



## tramp bushler

The back seat is full of arctic gear ,oils ,grease , power saws,, spare tire . Snowshoes . I don't let gas or deisel warm up in the winter . Makes too much water .
And 3 tool boxes. 
Ect.ect.ect


----------



## KiwiBro

tramp bushler said:


> No doubt your rollin in $$


Far from it. I love seeing trucks like yours on the road and my pick-up has done many miles with all sorts loaded on it. It's great to see how different people configure their loads and get the most out of their trucks. It just reminds me of the start of that aforementioned movie, every time I see or do it. No disrespect intended.


----------



## tramp bushler

I tend to have stuff hangin off the front end too



[IMG


----------



## tramp bushler




----------



## beelsr

tramp bushler said:


> Nope .I swung it around and netseled it in between 2 fatties
> . Can't loose my coal scoop.



 my coal scoop is poly but then, it'd probably crack for you. and at the worst possible time...


----------



## tramp bushler

Haywire said:


> Nice rigs , Tramp.



. Thanks . The Ford has already killed 2 moose . With previous owners . Why it looks a little rough in the front . The blue filters are great in blowing snow . Cut right threw it . I need to put HID bulbs in them , cut down on power draw . 
The Duce needs about a dozen more foreward gears in the tranny and some kind of engine brake .


----------



## tramp bushler

beelsr said:


> my coal scoop is poly but then, it'd probably crack for you. and at the worst possible time...



The good poly ones that we use on the coast won't w
K up here . They break in the cold . We have this strange kind of snow in the interior . The steel shovel is the best for the things I do .


----------



## RandyMac

As with most things, metal beats plastic.


----------



## Metals406

RandyMac said:


> As with most things, metal beats plastic.



That's a good sig line for you Randy! :msp_thumbsup:


----------



## Samlock

RandyMac said:


> As with most things, metal beats plastic.



I've heard they're fixing broken bones with plastic now, not with metal screws and plates, as they used to.


----------



## Sport Faller

Samlock said:


> I've heard they're fixing broken bones with plastic now, not with metal screws and plates, as they used to.



I think the kind of plastic you're talking about is just a bit different than the kind they make a #12 grain scoop out of


----------



## Samlock

bigskyjake said:


> I think the kind of plastic you're talking about is just a bit different than the kind they make a #12 grain scoop out of



I take your word for that, Doc. I just recall, correct if I'm wrong, RandyMac writing he's got some metal spare parts in him.

Who wants to listen to Heavy Plastic music anyway?


----------



## tramp bushler

Execpt on power saws . 

Growin up I ran plenty of Lombards McCullocks+ and Homelites . None of which had antivibe . Might as well run a 90 lb pavement breaker . I can still feel the numbness and buzzing in my left hand. The Partner R 15 I think it was and th 031 AV were Awesome when they first came out. The Jonsred 52E was amazing . The American saws just didn't do it . I think I've only ran 1 Cully that had av . An SP81 .in 1993 . I kinda think my 266 Huskies would out cut it .


----------



## beelsr

tramp bushler said:


> The good poly ones that we use on the coast won't w
> K up here . They break in the cold . We have this strange kind of snow in the interior . The steel shovel is the best for the things I do .



yep. i retired my old metal coal scoop to shovelling snow by the chicken coop.

the poly is only ounces lighter but after a few ton of coal, you can feel it.


----------



## beelsr

Samlock said:


> I've heard they're fixing broken bones with plastic now, not with metal screws and plates, as they used to.



Yep. The screw's in there just to hold the bone while the bone heals itself - think of them as an internal cast.

Once the bone regrows, the screw doesn't do much.


----------



## tramp bushler

Steel and wood can take a fair thrashin at 40 below . Plastic and aliminum can't . In the winter , getting home at night is mandatory . Sometimes your shovel is all that stands between freezing and comfort .


----------



## bitzer

tramp bushler said:


> Looks nice . Thanks for the explanation . You ran a Stihl tday :confused2:
> 460 or 660 ? Do u use a tape or your saw to measure your logs ?



440 with a 460BB top end(82cc roughly). Comp still at 180psi cold after a year or so. Woods ported and muffler triple ported- she screams and its easy to throw around. Good ole Spencer for measuring logs. 

I looked at a job today thats got some nice tall wood in it. Lots of ridges and hips and bowls. It will be a fun change of pace where I will actually get to work on saving out instead of just dumping the wood. Should be a good test.


----------



## slowp

I don't know why they are falling here, but I came upon this on this morning's _Embrace The Weather _walk. Operations may interfere with future walks. To get to this spot on foot makes for a good workout as there are a couple of steep climbs. Oh well. The trees saved out well. 






The picture does not do justice to the rainfall. 
View attachment 236424


----------



## bitzer

Rainy week. New Job.

The nicest cherry from yesterday. This job is going to be quick if it ever stops raining. 3 truckloads- only logs and mostly cherry. 





It made a 12', 2 10's and 2 8's. 





The lifesaver. I should have known better, but... I only have to pull the little 16"er out once a month or so. It hangs off of my pack for just this occaision. NO I did not run all the paint off of it. The bar was given to me, I swear!







View attachment 236737

View attachment 236738

View attachment 236739


----------



## RandyMac

300 pages, ol' Queeneye would be proud.


----------



## paccity

he needs to get on here and start the next 300.


----------



## tramp bushler

Yup . Can't get by without a spare bar and chain . .


----------



## forestryworks

*Finally, a little work.*

Don't know what the deal was, but started getting calls all of a sudden. About damn time I say!


----------



## Sport Faller

Nice,
"Gotta get paid, got money to earn"


----------



## KiwiBro

forestryworks said:


> Don't know what the deal was, but started getting calls all of a sudden. About damn time I say!


 Do I spy curved camp-fire seating in that bent trunk?


----------



## forestryworks

KiwiBro said:


> Do I spy curved camp-fire seating in that bent trunk?



Could be lol.

That was the worst pine I've ever cut. _Pinus eldarica_ - Afghanistan Pine, Mondell Pine, etc. Terribly crooked and twisted grained and very knotty.

Folks are better off planting Ponderosa Pine in this neck of the woods. A much prettier tree.


----------



## 056 kid

some trees by the power lines.


----------



## Boomhower

Kid, looks better then most of my stumps! Is that a 440 or 460?


----------



## 056 kid

stock 460 with a nice chain.


----------



## bitzer

Nice pics Kid! You gonna hang around once in a while now?

Yesterday. Soft dutch white oak. Trying to swing about 100 degress, hit 90. Good enough. Off the trail at least. It was one of those white oaks that steadily curves out from about 30 ft up to the top. Kind of like a candy cane. Pretty top heavy. I cheated with the wedges. Had to keep a couple of kerfs open in the back. Just too much weight for the holding wood. It came around so slow I had time to dig in my pocket and get my phone out for this. I'll bet it took 12-15 seconds for total movement. Pretty funny. I apologize for the shaky camera and crappy quality. Had a couple of things on my mind at the moment.
[video=youtube;3b5IS4QrTLs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3b5IS4QrTLs[/video]

Whiteoaksoftdutch5-8.3g2 - YouTube










View attachment 237554

View attachment 237555


----------



## tramp bushler

Cool . Boy you are in the jungle now . Heres what greeted me this morning .





.
.




Kindof odd to have a snow day in May .:msp_thumbdn:


----------



## wowzers

tramp bushler said:


> Kindof odd to have a snow day in May .:msp_thumbdn:



I hear you. Snowed everyday but Friday last week.


----------



## madhatte

bitzer said:


> It came around so slow I had time to dig in my pocket and get my phone out for this. I'll bet it took 12-15 seconds for total movement



That's how this one went (way back in Feb, cutting inside the fence):







Got the full 120 degrees I wanted out of it, though -- it was hanging way out over a powerline and a road. Would have been OK to drop it in the road but not across the powerline. Managed to get it up across the sidewalk into the lawn. Sat on the stump for a few seconds before the hingewood broke. It probably took 5 seconds to swing but then paused with the kerf open about an inch while I stood back with my saw wondering if I ought to give the hinge some more love real quick. Was kind of anticlimactic when it finally went over.


----------



## tramp bushler

Thats one of the best pics of a siswheel I've seen on here Hatt.


----------



## hammerlogging

tramp bushler said:


> Thats one of the best pics of a siswheel I've seen on here Hatt.



except it didn't pull, but not for a lack of giving the tree a chance. No harm, came around anyway from what he says. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink?


----------



## stihl 440

hammerlogging said:


> except it didn't pull, but not for a lack of giving the tree a chance. No harm, came around anyway from what he says. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink?



I know what your saying..when the siswheel does what its intended it folds until it closes and usually rips a big portion of root and stump out of the ground and stays on the butt..keeping the tree on the stump and swinging the maximum amout of time. Alot of times i use it in tandem with a dutchman or my own style of modified open dutch. I've swung trees 180 degrees to the lean this way with no wedge. Yet there is still a fail rate and you have to know when to use it and what you can get away with. I've also used siswheels with a full hinge to sidehill trees and hold the upper side longer. But you can also use a borecut with a pin or ear behind the hinge left on the high side and do the same effect...i usually do this with veneer trees they tend to save out better this way. The bore and pin works well with red and white oak and some cherry with root flare or root swell..alot of times you just gotta know when to stay in it or leave it hold. Alot of times wind and dutchmans dont agree either...unless its steady and really helping you...again sometimes.


----------



## bitzer

Red oaks are funny. They seem to have a lot more factors involved regarding their holdability to the stump. Sometimes they pull sometimes not. This one had a hard lean overall and the amount of work I put into it had little return. Part of the wheel pulled and half did not. Sometimes its just better to dump and run. It seems like just a straight up full dutch does just as well with them as any other cuts.

I had a big ugly leaning white oak scare the #### out of me last Feb. It chaired and came 15ft back over the stump. It did have a crack that I should have noticed and I did not put a snipe in it.That with too much of a dutch and a narrow face and blamo. Its seems a soft dutch will help you get by on problem trees. 







Leavin that strap behind the bore that you're refering too 440? I'm guessing this is what you mean. Hard leaning ash. Dutched the far side too. It did what I wanted. Yeah I take too many pictures. What can I say I love my job!






View attachment 237649

View attachment 237650


----------



## madhatte

tramp bushler said:


> Thats one of the best pics of a siswheel I've seen on here Hatt.



Thank yez, I was sweatin' bullets until I saw it move.



hammerlogging said:


> except it didn't pull, but not for a lack of giving the tree a chance. No harm, came around anyway from what he says. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink?



'S true. I almost think that's why it paused on the stump -- the wood behind the siswheel was flexing but not breaking off. Either way, I was happier to have the extra wiggle room than not.


----------



## bitzer

tramp bushler said:


> Cool . Boy you are in the jungle now . Heres what greeted me this morning .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kindof odd to have a snow day in May .:msp_thumbdn:



We had 12" this day about 20 years ago. Holy #### 20 years ago. Anyway that was the last time I rember snow in may here. You're a touch farther north than me though! 

Yeah this woods is thicker than ####. I can't see the marked trees until I'm 5 ft. away from them. Makes for a lot of walking when trying to figure layouts. My guess is it had a lot of elm that died off which created big holes in the canopy. Introduce some boxelders and it became a weed farm. Some really nice cherry in it though.


----------



## stihl 440

bitzer said:


> Red oaks are funny. They seem to have a lot more factors involved regarding their holdability to the stump. Sometimes they pull sometimes not. This one had a hard lean overall and the amount of work I put into it had little return. Part of the wheel pulled and half did not. Sometimes its just better to dump and run. It seems like just a straight up full dutch does just as well with them as any other cuts.
> 
> I had a big ugly leaning white oak scare the #### out of me last Feb. It chaired and came 15ft back over the stump. It did have a crack that I should have noticed and I did not put a snipe in it.That with too much of a dutch and a narrow face and blamo. Its seems a soft dutch will help you get by on problem trees.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Leavin that strap behind the bore that you're refering too 440? I'm guessing this is what you mean. Hard leaning ash. Dutched the far side too. It did what I wanted. Yeah I take too many pictures. What can I say I love my job!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 237649
> 
> View attachment 237650



Yup thats it in the ash stump bitzer. And looks like you had the red oak set up really well...sometimes there's the few that will still throw their middle finger up at you and not do exactly what you want. I have better luck with coventional face in them though..it seems like since the bottom cut is a level plane it lets it roll around a little more especially when walking them. Although ill throw a humbolt in when needed.


----------



## 1969cj-5

madhatte said:


> Old Rasputin is some tasty stuff, no joke.
> 
> 
> 
> 'S like ol' whatsisname's advice in that one movie, regarding downhill skiing: "Go that way, really fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!"



Digging up an old post. I am new to the site after all. That was John Cusack getting advice from Curtis Armstrong in the movie Better off Dead. Great flick!

I will now go back to reading the thread posts.


----------



## bitzer

Mistuh Kurtz, he dead.

Cashed another job out today. 

Next one is already cut and ready for the machine. 

Keep on movin'

Theres timber that needs killin.


----------



## tramp bushler

Your loggin now :msp_biggrin:


----------



## tramp bushler

Da Gum , sorry to hear about Randy's loss . Heres a pic or 2 for him . I hope his brother knew the rush of turnin a fatty loose off a rock bluff .



.
.



.
.
.



.
The biggest yellow cedar I ever fell. 96" on the stump perpendicular to the face


----------



## tramp bushler

.
044 Stihl, Madsen modified , 34" Sugi Hara bar , Oregon 75CJ , 3/8 63 ga chisel ground chisel bit .
Pro Teck air filter . The tree had been standing for approx. 1500 years . I counted over 1200 rings and there was approx a 28" hole where the heart had been. 
Couldn't get a good face init as it kept opening up . It was split up pretty good . I had to lift the back cut about 5" to get it to fall . It was a snag stob about 70' tall .it took me 28 minutes to fall it and I made 29$ for fallin it ..


----------



## OlympicYJ

tramp bushler said:


>



I shoulda bought a pair or two of those when I was up there in 07-08. Best lights they make! A guy at the North Pole Napa said he only saw one break and that's cuz an owl hit it at 50 below and took out the whole housing! Damn tough covers.


----------



## tramp bushler

Ya , every one up here runs them . I have seen 1 that broke the mount in Deadhorse .but thats because he was the lead truck that busted thru about 200 miles of drifts at 40 below in close to whiteout conditions . Driving the haul road is beyond hard on things .
I've got a brand new in the box set of 240 s (10") and the blue filters also new I'll sell or trade . . The blue filters are for snow , falling or blowing .


----------



## OlympicYJ

Shot ya a message Tramp


----------



## OlympicYJ

BTW if you ever need anything checked on at Harbor Saw just let me know and I can do so. I'm in town and in there usually at least once every cpl weeks lol


----------



## tramp bushler

Utilized my semi forced down time the past couple weeks .




.
been wanting a new wedge pouch for several years but didn't want the same thing I had . Have always wanted a chain box and alot lighter ax scabbard .



.
The chain box will hold 2,36" chains or 1,50" . Plus a bar wrench . The ax scabbard will pack up to a 4 lb rafting ax . But mainly I just pack a 28 oz. Frameing ax . .

Still need to make a loop with D ring for the tape . Been thinking about making spenders for it .


----------



## KYLogger

Nice handiwork! I have a buddy who is an awsome leatherworker.....makes all my tack, belts, knife sheaths etc.........If I ever start using wedges on a regular basis I will definately steal your idea!!!!

Tom


----------



## tramp bushler

Ya you bet . I formed the wedge pouch to hold 1,15" Douuble Taper , 1,12" + 1,10" . I usually have a spare 12,+,10" wedges in my tramp sack . I made the tape D ring loop today . 

Bein I not tall I made the belt loop on the pouches so it keld the pouch about 3 1/2" higher than the lether one Baileys and Madsens sells . The pistol holster is for walkin to and from my strip . . Throw it in my tramp sack when I start the saw .


----------



## KYLogger

Around here we like to carry one for the little slithery things called copperheads and timber rattlers  and dope growers and moonshiners and lions and tigers and bears......OH MY! I am like you I can't stand to run a saw with a pistola strapped to my side. Man............West Coast stuff is soooooooo cool!

Tom


----------



## HorseFaller

KYLogger said:


> Around here we like to carry one for the little slithery things called copperheads and timber rattlers  and dope growers and moonshiners and lions and tigers and bears......OH MY! I am like you I can't stand to run a saw with a pistola strapped to my side. Man............West Coast stuff is soooooooo cool!
> 
> Tom



Double jack no worries. A ways away from crew and a long hike, most definatly carrying the pistol. I dont think it's left my rigging bag in two months, though. Not cutting lately.


----------



## Hddnis

Always have a sidearm nearby, even when climbing. Didn't used to, then a guy tried to chase me out of a tree with a shotgun, I've carried even when climbing since then. Not much cover up in a tree so you better be able to shoot back I guess.

City people get awful attached to trees. Half dead hazard trees are sacred shrines to them.





Mr. HE


----------



## tramp bushler

Ya , I,ve spent alot of time cutting with a pistol on my belt . In the pic that is my avatar I have a Ruger Stainless Bisley Hunter model 7 1/2" 45Colt on my wedge belt loaded with 325 gr. Buffalo Bore LFN @1325fps I had an 8 1/2 'brown bear in the strip with me . And it was select cut so lots of wandering around in the brush . I,ve had a pistol save me from a mauling many times with both black and brown bear . .


----------



## Rounder

Really nice Tramp, I like the chain box, always been trying to figure something like that out. I'm kind of out of room on my belt though.....My 30" waist only gives me so much room. Tried to gain weight to make a little more room in the belt, but I don't think I could possibly eat any more cheeseburgers or drink any more Coors than I already do....


----------



## Metals406

Rounder said:


> Really nice Tramp, I like the chain box, always been trying to figure something like that out. I'm kind of out of room on my belt though.....My 30" waist only gives me so much room. Tried to gain weight to make a little more room in the belt, but I don't think I could possibly eat any more cheeseburgers or drink any more Coors than I already do....



Try harder. . .


----------



## tramp bushler

Rounder said:


> Really nice Tramp, I like the chain box, always been trying to figure something like that out. I'm kind of out of room on my belt though.....My 30" waist only gives me so much room. Tried to gain weight to make a little more room in the belt, but I don't think I could possibly eat any more cheeseburgers or drink any more Coors than I already do....



:hmm3grin2orange::msp_biggrin:

My jeans belt measures 43" tounge to hole . PLENTY OF ROOM !!


----------



## Rounder

Metals406 said:


> Try harder. . .



I am by golly. I figure if I quit sawing, I can up the waistline and have more room for falling gear, and..... ####....that ain't gonna work.


----------



## tramp bushler

Nope . That aint gonna work . 
You don't wanna be a lard ass like me .


----------



## Rounder

I've met some real big boys that could knock down a whole lot of timber on any kind of ground.


----------



## forestryworks

Rounder said:


> Coors



Well, that is the problem.

Try Guinness.


----------



## Rounder

forestryworks said:


> Well, that is the problem.
> 
> Try Guinness.



That's a problem too....I'm Scotch and wouldn't be caught dead with a Guinness in my hand....


----------



## bitzer

New job- In my opinion this is what logging in my part of the state is all about. The kettle moraine. Hips, hills, bowls, ridges, all kinds of fun glacial formations. Nice tall wood. 50-60ft of logs with no limbing as the norm, not the exception. 











Knockin one over. I put that small maple perpendicular out there to keep the near tree somewhat in lead and not snap it off over the hill to the right. The wood hung to the left is deadfall.




You see what happens? You see what happens larry when you #### a stranger in the ass?
Marking gone dumb.
There is a state trail to the right in this pic. The kind of lower beaten down spot. Well there is so much emphasis on the save trees here due to that trail, I really had no choice. It was the only place I could put it. I even left some crap for it to pile into and slow down, but she canoed right at the first crotch. I still managed 2 8s out of the spot where it tore out. I get paid if its firewood or logs so sometimes I just have to say #### it. 





View attachment 239786

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## tramp bushler

Looks good . What saw is that ? The hb looks like a 372 or 390 .


----------



## bitzer

tramp bushler said:


> Looks good . What saw is that ? The hb looks like a 372 or 390 .



Thanks! 390. I sold the 394. After I got off of the phone with the guy I planned to sell it to I immediatly wrote up a equip/liabilty waiver. I had him sign it. He had no idea what kind of beast I had turned him loose with. Thats the trouble around here. No one does know. That 390 xpw is the first one of its kind to come out of my saw shop and will be the only one until I get another. 

By the way I forgot to qoute the author of the line in my post if anyone is familiar- Walter Sobchak.


----------



## tramp bushler

Ya . I've decided on the 390 also . How many minutes are you getting on a tank of fuel ? I placed an order for 2 of the brand new Sugi Hara light weight 36" 63 ga bars today . Husky mount . The guy said they lightened them up a bit more than previous S H l w bars . I also called the Stihl dealer I prefer . He didn't have any of the l w stihl bars in but could order them . As long as the Sugi folks will send them Priority US Mail . We should have a good working relationship . Ups . Is not a good way to ship to remote Alaska . 

What bar are you running ??


----------



## bitzer

tramp bushler said:


> Ya . I've decided on the 390 also . How many minutes are you getting on a tank of fuel ? I placed an order for 2 of the brand new Sugi Hara light weight 36" 63 ga bars today . Husky mount . The guy said they lightened them up a bit more than previous S H l w bars . I also called the Stihl dealer I prefer . He didn't have any of the l w stihl bars in but could order them . As long as the Sugi folks will send them Priority US Mail . We should have a good working relationship . Ups . Is not a good way to ship to remote Alaska .
> 
> What bar are you running ??



Yeah this saw does not impress me stock, but as soon as I get a rain day that will change. I had them put the jungle muff on, but all it looks like is the regular one without a screen. I have not taken it off to check out the guts yet. I do like the weight, inboard clutch, and tensioner though. The bar is a 30" Carlton. I could not pass up on a Baileys deal for $20. I figured even if its crap hey its only $20. I've only ever run Oregon or Stihl bars. The oiler hole seems to constantly plug on the thing though. I'll have to kind of angle the hole a little or tweak it somehow.


----------



## tramp bushler

Have had very good sucess with welding the hole shut then drilling it out with a half diameter thru hole then a 1 1/2 diameterhole about half the depth . . Its kind of like the original LubriJet oil hole . . The original was incredable . Plugged oiler holes were a thing of the past .


----------



## hammerlogging

I had 2 of those bars, 34" for my 660. The slot for the chain tensioner was such that it wouldn't allow for tightening all but the least stratched out chains so I had to run them without the tensioner, which is actually not a big deal. I snapped the second one, first time I ever did that to a bar, it was stuck in a hard maple that I had to dump with another saw.... arg. I liked the bar, especially for the closeout price. It uses an Oregon or similar tip but it seems like the tip didn't fit exactly right so a little chip buildup could occur in the seam between the tip and the bar. Heck, for all I know it is an Oregon bar. Good buy though. Maybe I should see if they have any more.

On another note, I went cheap and am on the Red Dawg calks expirament. 3 or so weeks in and feeling like it is a good $200 saved from the Wescos I usually buy, we'll see by month 7.


----------



## Rounder

bitzer said:


> Yeah this saw does not impress me stock, but as soon as I get a rain day that will change.
> 
> Get that thing ported. Finally got mine run in a bit this week, and it's pretty damn peppy, torquey ####er. (Had it ported straight out of the box)


----------



## bitzer

Tramp- Thanks for the tip!

Hammer- I was thinking about the Madsens cheapo calk experiment. It'll be interesting to see what holds up. The bar does look and feel like an oregon. I'm planning on adding an extra link the next time I make up chains too. The DL count on the bar is pretty tight. Right now I'm only getting about 27" of actual cutting length. 

Sam- I wanted to run a few gallons through er to make sure its all good to go. I ordered the 288 deflector with the saw and bought some new dremel bits the week before it came. The guy at the shop thought it was funnier than hell that I'd tear apart a brand new saw right away. I've got probably 6 gallons through it, now I just need a rain day.


----------



## Gologit

hammerlogging said:


> On another note, I went cheap and am on the Red Dawg calks expirament. 3 or so weeks in and feeling like it is a good $200 saved from the Wescos I usually buy, we'll see by month 7.



They're pretty good. Not Wesco quality but they're worth the money. I got a pair and wore them about six months while my Wescos were being built. I didn't baby them and they held up a lot better than I thought they would.

I think a guy could get a couple of seasons out of them.


----------



## tramp bushler

I think alot of the deal with the inexpensive vorks holding up is how much a guy weighs . And how much time he spends on steep ground . I started wearing #2 redwood screw in about in 92 . Maybe earlier . They put more stress on the boot . But , when you put your foot down they stay where you put them 

My Buffalos handled them real well . Mine had the Neolite sole . The Viberg 105 T s like the #2 also . . I have been using 0 corks in them as I don't need very long nails in the Copper Basin .


----------



## Gologit

I tried the longer Redwood spikes once...that was enough. They actually felt like they were digging in _too_ good and it seemed like that made it hard to move fast on top of the log. Plus, they seemed to load up with junk to the point where I had what amounted to another sole on the boot....usually one boot more than the other. That made it great for walking on sidehills but not much else.
Working on rocky ground they wore down awful fast, too. I had them for a couple of weeks and maybe that wasn't enough time for a fair trial but I just never did feel like I could get around as well, or as quickly, as I could on the shorter spikes.

Besides...there's only about three days when the spikes are "just right" anyway...when they're brand new they're too sharp and when they're too old they're too dull. :biggrin: But for those three days you're real catty.


----------



## tramp bushler

I know what you mean by them being , just right . In closed canopy cutting the single ought worked great . , but in the snag patches . :cool2: good money , the huckl+ blue berrys are so thick you would have to cut a trail t get thru . As it rains pretty much every day and everything is slick , I found the #2 s worked best . Only fall down 50 times a day instead of 100 . .


----------



## RandyMac

*Time for a falling pic*


----------



## paccity




----------



## slowp

I'll post this one of Tarzan Trees. He had a rope holding it on one side, which you'll see him undo. Funky Sawman is standing by ready to work a comealong. I think a siswheel is in the making.

[video=youtube_share;UsujakH-xvw]http://youtu.be/UsujakH-xvw[/video]


----------



## slowp

Madhatte

[video=youtube_share;zPiyhkfVP4o]http://youtu.be/zPiyhkfVP4o[/video]


----------



## Joe46

Madhatte- Didn't recognize the young lad with the beard on his face:msp_confused:


----------



## slowp

Funky Sawman

[video=youtube_share;10QgWw3ts6U]http://youtu.be/10QgWw3ts6U[/video]


----------



## tramp bushler

lookin good.


----------



## tramp bushler

Funky dont waste no time. Nice and smooth.


----------



## mile9socounty

Looks like yall had all the fun over the weekend. I'd have to say I am jealous.


----------



## tramp bushler

not a very good pic, but you get the idea.





371 Husky. Sitka spruce.


----------



## tramp bushler

3120 Husky. 42" Oregon. Red Cedar. Tolstoy Bay. Was cutting for Tri Star Cutting. staying in Keaton Gildersleeve's float camp.


----------



## ashevilletree

Whoa, awesome pic! That guys ginormous, how long did'e take?


----------



## Metals406

ashevilletree said:


> Whoa, awesome pic! That guys ginormous, how long did'e take?



That guy is ginormous!! And the tree was pretty big too! 

Sorry Glen. . . Couldn't help it.


----------



## tramp bushler

I played around takin pics. fallin. limbing + bucking probably 25 minutes. I should have put a humbolt in it. got chewed out pretty good. I thot it was going to come apart when it hit the ground. it was all wolfy topped. but it saved out. and was hard solid at 26,'10"" I was gonna take a snag and a riggin cut for it. 
It was about 11' perp. to the hinge. I think I only got 6 or 7 bushel out of it. @,5.50$ a bushel. even playin around I beat a buck a minute.


----------



## bitzer

One of the nicer ash I've cut. 4 10s and 2 8s. No limbing, just top. 






Got a weeks worth of cutting with the 390 ported now. I like er a lot better! Permatex gasket got me to 175psi. Took the exhaust out a little and roughed up the intake. That 288 deflector sure works slick on the muffler!





Fixed my oiler hole issues.





Left these tree length cause its too rocky and steep for the forwarder here. I'll have to pull em down Monday.





Just a pretty face from a couple of weeks ago. A nice double stem basswood. About 3' across the hinge. 10 logs between the two. 






View attachment 241858

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----------



## JEFBO

*White ash*

I fell this about a week or so ago.
View attachment 241865

Here it is after.
View attachment 241866



Jeff


----------



## tramp bushler

would I ever like a few of those for the winters wood. How tall was it?


----------



## JEFBO

tramp bushler said:


> would I ever like a few of those for the winters wood. How tall was it?



The main trunk was about 30ft and I would guess the total height was about 80ft maybe 90.

Jeff


----------



## hammerlogging

*pics*

SOme current falling, a super gravy poplar patch, best ground and vol./acre ever. Wont last forever but its been a good run. The cut is pretty mucj a modified shelterwood regen prescription, cutter select (me). Here's a few from the other day. At the end of the day, half tank to go, walk out a tree to limb and top, knocked a couple limbs off and got to where I wanted to top it and since I was a few six or so feet in the air I tossed the saw for a gentle drop into the slash andd I would follow and some little twig caught the maxflow cover, broke my flange. Trees are dumped downhill more than I'd like but its for easier logging from below.

View attachment 241991


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View attachment 241995


----------



## Rounder

Nice pics Joe, looks like pretty good going. Bummer on the AF mount.....I've busted 5 or 6, yet I somehow never managed to throw a spare in my pack. Least it was at the end of the day.


----------



## forestryworks

hammerlogging said:


> SOme current falling, a super gravy poplar patch, best ground and vol./acre ever. Wont last forever but its been a good run. The cut is pretty mucj a modified shelterwood regen prescription, cutter select (me). Here's a few from the other day. At the end of the day, half tank to go, walk out a tree to limb and top, knocked a couple limbs off and got to where I wanted to top it and since I was a few six or so feet in the air I tossed the saw for a gentle drop into the slash andd I would follow and some little twig caught the maxflow cover, broke my flange. Trees are dumped downhill more than I'd like but its for easier logging from below.



Nice pics, Joe. Thanks for sharing.

Looks like a rx burn wouldn't hurt that country at all. Been reading a lot about the need to increase burning in the "fast becoming too moist" East. Got any thoughts on that?

Here's one article - Cascading species shift looms in fire-starved Eastern woods


----------



## tramp bushler

Nice looking cutting Hammer. I've only had 1 air. filter mount break. But alot of things got broke on that saw. , tree got it. . I have wondered if the max filter cover would break as mine is kind of flimsey.. Guess they are tougher than they look.


----------



## KYLogger

Great pics, if your area of the country is about like mine than you were 100% right about that being gravy, I bet you enjoyed the heck outta yourself! I love cuttin' poplars, talk about production. What are they gonna skid it out with? A cable machine?


Tom


----------



## Rakoprtr

Hey guys I'm new but totally jealous of all the big wood pics on here I would love to learn to cut stuff that big one day


----------



## tramp bushler

Welcome aboard Rak ; If u can tolerate 4 th grade spelling, grammer, sensence syructure. Ect. Ect. theres lots of great info on here. And lots of guys from most walks of life. 

And a bunch of Timber Beasts.


----------



## RandyMac

We could start out with a list of things not to do.


----------



## bitzer

Nice pics Hammer! I'll bet thats pretty kickass that you get to pick what you're layin out.


----------



## Rakoprtr

I think I'll fit in just fine then lol


----------



## Rounder

Unfortunatly no pic, just a story. Walking up to my next tree this morning something rolled away side hill from my foot. It was a tiny newborn mule deer. Couldn't even get up. Figured I better not touch it, just had on a pair of ratty/smelly cotton gloves. Only about a hundred feet below the road, so I went up and got the chaser. He had a new pair of rubber palmed gloves and packed the fawn up above the road (out of the block).

Mom found it a couple hours later and off they went. Kind of neat to see a bunch of guys that would gladly put the full-grown version in the freezer worry over and keep checking up on that little one.

Hope you're all having a good week - Sam


----------



## mile9socounty

Greatings from New Mexico my friends. Ive been down here for a week and a half on the Little Bear complex out of Ruidoso, NM. Aint got much time, I'll explain about how much of a twisted show this place is. The weather is hot, the trees are kind of big and the air at 8000ft is very thin. 

Have any of yall seen Redprospector? If I remember correctly he is from Cloudcroft. If he is, I might have spied him at camp a few times.


----------



## madhatte

Lucky dog, you get to travel. We had three fires here yesterday, none bigger than 2 acres. It's already getting busy.


----------



## Rounder

More random pics....

Doubling down on yarders....with almost no lead on cutting

View attachment 242741


Few of you guys will recognize the helo's parking spot

View attachment 242742


Bitterroot Range on the way out

View attachment 242743


Today's strip, select cut, got a good ways past the cooridors you can see, big day for just two of us.

View attachment 242749


Hope you all had a good, safe week - Sam


----------



## Metals406

Rounder said:


> More random pics....
> 
> Doubling down on yarders....with almost no lead on cutting
> 
> View attachment 242741
> 
> 
> Few of you guys will recognize the helo's parking spot
> 
> View attachment 242742
> 
> 
> Bitterroot Range on the way out
> 
> View attachment 242743
> 
> 
> Today's strip, select cut, got a good ways past the cooridors you can see, big day for just two of us.
> 
> View attachment 242749
> 
> 
> Hope you all had a good, safe week - Sam



Now that's the logging I'm used to. . . I never got nuthin' but select, with Corridors like that. Them sets look freaking long too -- are they more than 1,100 feet?


----------



## Rounder

Yeah Nate, about 1300 feet. Pushing the limits of those link belt drums. Start up Mill Creek on Monday, 1800 feet in depth......the boys will be tagged out on that one. Might have to dial down the sky line for something slimmer and see how it goes. Not my problem thank goodness. I'll just dump them and let the side rod figure it out.


----------



## Metals406

Rounder said:


> Yeah Nate, about 1300 feet. Pushing the limits of those link belt drums. Start up Mill Creek on Monday, 1800 feet in depth......the boys will be tagged out on that one. Might have to dial down the sky line for something slimmer and see how it goes. Not my problem thank goodness. I'll just dump them and let the side rod figure it out.



I think our Linkbelt was maxed at 1,200(ish) unless, like ya say, you go with a smaller sky.

A work around, if the bottom of the unit has a road -- is to work up as much as you can from the top, and finish from the bottom.


----------



## QuadL-matty

a funny one lol




biggest tree i've ever cut with a 20 inch bar lol also free falled next to a 138kv transmission line lol




sweet saw holder lol


----------



## Cedarkerf

*Celebrity*

The son in law made it on tv second time this season. Ian Haynes on the news clip . No chain saw I posted a pic a long ways back cuttin a giant snag.


<script type='text/javascript' src='http://KGWN.images.worldnow.com/interface/js/WNVideo.js?rnd=311988;hostDomain=www.kgwn.tv;playerWidth=640;playerHeight=360;isShowIcon=true;clipId=7379875;flvUri=;partnerclipid=;adTag=News;advertisingZone=;enableAds=true;landingPage=;islandingPageoverride=false;playerType=STANDARD_EMBEDDEDscript;controlsType=overlay'></script>


----------



## Metals406

Brian, the video won't work fer me.


----------



## Cedarkerf

Ill try to repost it See if this works. Our son in law the celebrity Ian Haynes in the interviews the link seems to work. I posted pic of him falling a giant snag earlier in the thread.

http://www.kgwn.tv/category/201221/video?autoStart=true&topVideoCatNo=default&clipId=7379875


----------



## Metals406

Works now!

We haven't started our fire season yet, but I guess it's fix'n to get warm, so I'm sure it'll be soon.


----------



## Cedarkerf

Ian was down in Colorado for that fire. Were cold and rainey still out here. Id say were a minimum 3 to 4 weeks if we get real hot but thats not in the forcast


----------



## Metals406

That's good! I'd prefer not to pull a Colorado this year -- then we can't be in the woods till late fall. :msp_sneaky:


----------



## slowp

I bought a tomato plant, thus guaranteeing that it will be another cold and wet summer here. :msp_biggrin:


----------



## Cedarkerf

Pouring rain at the Buckley log show today but still a good time. It made it up to 57 degrees today


----------



## Metals406

Bet all that rain made ya homesick fer Montana!!


----------



## slowp

Slather on the sunscreen. We have a sucker hole! I can hear the tomato plant making up for lost time!


----------



## Rounder

View attachment 243985


View attachment 243986



View attachment 243987


Happy 4th, Hope you also got a day off to get away from diesels roaring and trees crashing! -Sam


----------



## hammerlogging

*rounder fishin*

I had a delightful visitor to help me get some wood on the ground, my old cutting partner Red. And a patch of timber "they forgot last time", some heavy hitters. I really hope I can figure out how to get the video we got loaded.

East coast temptations. 

View attachment 244004


View attachment 244005


View attachment 244006


View attachment 244007


View attachment 244008


----------



## hammerlogging

couple more. Happy 4th.

View attachment 244009


View attachment 244010


View attachment 244011


----------



## paccity

nice sticks hammer. accept the inverted humbolt.:msp_wink:


----------



## rwoods

Some pretty poplar you're cutting there. What part of WNC? Ron


----------



## hammerlogging

paccity said:


> nice sticks hammer. accept the inverted humbolt.:msp_wink:



Thats Red, he pretty well sticks with the open face, hes a thin hinge boring perfect stump mother ####er, but as long as "perfect" is in there, let him do as he wishes. Unless "perfect" takes too long....

On another note, the irony of your (assumed) misspelling of "except" brings this whole east vs. west thing to a peaceful and and loving close, albeit inadvertant. A pun, and the world could rest.

I was putting in a block face with a snipe dumping one uphill. I hate having to put one uphill.


----------



## paccity

hammerlogging said:


> Thats Red, he pretty well sticks with the open face, hes a thin hinge boring perfect stump mother ####er, but as long as "perfect" is in there, let him do as he wishes. Unless "perfect" takes too long....
> 
> On another note, the irony of your (assumed) misspelling of "except" brings this whole east vs. west thing to a peaceful and and loving close, albeit inadvertant. A pun, and the world could rest.
> 
> I was putting in a block face with a snipe dumping one uphill. I hate having to put one uphill.



na can't spell. but as far as the comment i was just ribbin ya. no peein match intended . nice strait logs though.


----------



## Rounder

Looks like some nice timber Joe.....Just got re-routed, which meant a rig swap a second ago and an extra hour of driving in the AM, yeehaa...............got to love feeding 6 yarders and 2 skidders..........Now where the hell did I set that beer.......Wouldn't want to show up all bright eyed and bushy tailed on July 5th!


----------



## hammerlogging

paccity said:


> na can't spell. but as far as the comment i was just ribbin ya. no peein match intended . nice strait logs though.



I wouldn't have figured, but the error was ammusing.


----------



## hammerlogging

rwoods said:


> Some pretty poplar you're cutting there. What part of WNC? Ron



Pretty much every part, depending on the job.


----------



## hammerlogging

5 - YouTube


----------



## Metals406

hammerlogging said:


> 5 - YouTube



Just sub'd to yer channel dude. . . Now ya got to make more videos. :msp_biggrin:


----------



## Gologit

paccity said:


> na can't spell. but as far as the comment i was just ribbin ya. no peein match intended . nice strait logs though.



Hey now, you spell just fine. You were the one who came up with "slopping back cut". Remember? :msp_biggrin:


----------



## rwoods

hammerlogging said:


> Pretty much every part, depending on the job.



I was just curious as I spent most of my summers as a youth in Macon County (1966- 1974). At the time, it seemed every young male over 18 was either fighting in Nam or cutting in Washington State although there was logging going on in the Nantahala. I can still see and hear the log trucks winding down Hwy 64 (you could hear them long before you could see them) some only carrying five logs and a few with only three. I also remember some of those same loggers slugging it out on Saturday nights at the red clay oval. I have lots of great memories of WNC. Also a few sad ones - including seeing the woods littered with huge American Chestnuts stumps and knowing there would never be another true American Chestnut of any significant size due to the blight. Ron


----------



## Rounder

Nice vid Joe, looks like pretty dandy stuff. Tall. Not what comes to mind when I think of timber over there. Neat to see. What lengths are you cutting, and how many to a stick like that? - Sam


----------



## hammerlogging

Well, its a little biased, that video, I work damn fine timber, but its not all that big or that tall, but I will say that 70% or more is satisfying timber. That tree probably measured about 48" on the stump, and probably had 3 16's and 1 12', all sawlogs because too big for peelers. probably right in the 2100 bf range, pretty nice stick. All in all, I average 22-24" on the stump and maybe 44-48' of sawlog material and a stick of pulpwood 300 bf/tree, but this doesn't account for the junk I cut, to make it legit forestry, not just high-grading. Big ones like in the vid will get one or 2 16's or a 33 bucked off to ease the presssure on the logging equipment, usual size timber will either get pulled whole stem (limbed and topped) or bucked somewhere in half (measured or at a super obvious defect or a fork) to make it log or turn easier.

At the end of the day, production wise, falling and logging, 600 bf trees 30" on the stump day in and day out maximize production, at least for us.


----------



## tramp bushler

Looks real good. 600 bdft per tree average is good. If a faller is getting 20$ a bushel and he can cut 50 # s a day he'd be doing good.


----------



## tramp bushler

.Did a take down job in Valdez Thursday and Friday. here are some pics.



..Climbing sure was easier when I wore a size 34 riggin pant.



.
.





.


----------



## hammerlogging

AWESOME tramp!!

I worked on a boat up there out of Seward, we would go in to Valdez for water and fuel every so often fishing out at entrance point. that must be a good wayd from home for you- great area though. I miss salt water.


----------



## tramp bushler

.

If I post any duplicates, sorry.



.

This is Sitka spruce. old growth. These ran 32-26" on the stump. I topped them between 70 and 85' up. then chunked them down to 20 some feet. I used my Jonsred 2150 for a climbing saw. on the first one I also had to use the 460 Stihl w/32" bar .. had a 18" bar on the jred. Probably not the perfect saws. but they got the job done pretty good.


----------



## tramp bushler

hammerlogging said:


> AWESOME tramp!!
> 
> I worked on a boat up there out of Seward, we would go in to Valdez for water and fuel every so often fishing out at entrance point. that must be a good wayd from home for you- great area though. I miss salt water.



Hammer ; When were u in Seward? I was stationed there in 80-82 on the Cape Jellison.
I cut timber there for Afognak Log in 92 . turned Forest Acres into Clearcut acres. :msp_rolleyes:


----------



## tramp bushler

Valdez is just down the road. 115 miles.


----------



## Keen

Started on this job site Thursday. Lots of real nice timber. Cutting ash, and soft maple. Got 4 clear 10s, and a few bolts after it forked.


----------



## Metals406

Keen said:


> Started on this job site Thursday. Lots of real nice timber. Cutting ash, and soft maple. Got 4 clear 10s, and a few bolts after it forked.



That's some good looking timber!


----------



## mdavlee

Here's your pictures. Nice tree.


----------



## KYLogger

Good lookin timber! Is there alot of wood on that site that is that size? Do you all have the dreaded Ash Borer there yet? I know it has hit southern Ohio and parts of my beloved home state of KY. We have very few ash trees in my area of the state. I think I have got one on our 135 acres. But they are everywhere up in S. Ohio. 

Nice job on whackin' and stackin',

Tom


----------



## Metals406

Pat stretching the 66's legs.

<iframe width="640" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/sRiuljvNRTs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


----------



## slowp

That video needs to go on the firewood forum where some folks think there's only one way to buck a log.


----------



## Metals406

I'm on the phone with Cody right now. . . He says Ol Pat's been falling real regular in Oregon.


----------



## paccity

last i herd he was south of me by maplton.


----------



## Metals406

paccity said:


> last i herd he was south of me by maplton.



Could be? I'm not real sure where abouts he is?


----------



## Keen

KYLogger said:


> Good lookin timber! Is there alot of wood on that site that is that size? Do you all have the dreaded Ash Borer there yet? I know it has hit southern Ohio and parts of my beloved home state of KY. We have very few ash trees in my area of the state. I think I have got one on our 135 acres. But they are everywhere up in S. Ohio.
> 
> Nice job on whackin' and stackin',
> 
> Tom



Lots of big timer on the site. Right now I am clearing a 50' easment thats a mile and quater long on state land to get to 240 acres of private land. Once I get the road made a processer will come in and get the small to medium size wood. There is a ton of wood that will have to be hand cut which im looking forward to. Some of the maples are over 40" dbh. 
The ash borer has hit pretty hard in last year. The ones im cutting now do not have it yet. It would only be a matter of time though. Its going to be a sad day to see all the ash trees gone. Hows the timber industry in KY? What kind of wood do you maily cut?


----------



## slowp

Metals406 said:


> Could be? I'm not real sure where abouts he is?



He's not here or the trees would have gone across the road making the forester grumble as she had to mark corridors in a unit on up the blocked road...


----------



## Metals406

slowp said:


> He's not here or the trees would have gone across the road making the forester grumble as she had to mark corridors in a unit on up the blocked road...


----------



## Samlock

Metals406 said:


> Pat stretching the 66's legs.
> 
> <iframe width="640" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/sRiuljvNRTs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



Oh my, how the Ugly Dog's little helper moves like a crab louse in the bush! I feel so slooooooow.


----------



## Metals406

Samlock said:


> Oh my, how the Ugly Dog's little helper moves like a crab louse in the bush! I feel so slooooooow.



:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## KYLogger

It's got it's ups and downs it is doing pretty decent right now, we need some rain though. Let the mills get caught up some. Or I am afraid that quotas, price cuts or shutdowns are on the way. The mill closest to my place (about 10 miles away) has already shut down for a 8 week period after being swamped with storm damaged timber. We are cutting ALOT of blowdown timber right now, the tornado in March uprooted hundreds of acres of timber. I can't wait to see and cut some standing timber again!! We cut mostly poplar, red, white, black and chestnut oak, and hickory. We have got our share of pines too, white, southern yellow and black. But the pine market is terrible around here, maybe 150 a thousand for good big (30"+) white pine. I live south of Morehead Ky, "The hardwood capital of the world!" At least that's what the signs goin in and outta town say. 

Tom


----------



## Rounder

KYLogger said:


> It's got it's ups and downs it is doing pretty decent right now, we need some rain though. Let the mills get caught up some. Or I am afraid that quotas, price cuts or shutdowns are on the way. The mill closest to my place (about 10 miles away) has already shut down for a 8 week period after being swamped with storm damaged timber. We are cutting ALOT of blowdown timber right now, the tornado in March uprooted hundreds of acres of timber. I can't wait to see and cut some standing timber again!! We cut mostly poplar, red, white, black and chestnut oak, and hickory. We have got our share of pines too, white, southern yellow and black. But the pine market is terrible around here, maybe 150 a thousand for good big (30"+) white pine. I live south of Morehead Ky, "The hardwood capital of the world!" At least that's what the signs goin in and outta town say.
> 
> Tom



No fun to be had in blow down. Guess it's fun to get through a day of it though without getting ####ed up.


----------



## KYLogger

No doubt!

To date (in this particular boundary) I have only suffered two cracked metatarsal bones in my hand due to a bad fall from 8' while topping a big white oak, and a pretty hardcore sprained ankle from finding a small furry critters vacated subterranean home under a red oak top! Doin pretty good so far, hey I haven't had to go to the doc's office or hospital yet:msp_wink:

I hope I didn't just jinx myself!

Tom


----------



## ChainsawmanXX

KYLogger said:


> It's got it's ups and downs it is doing pretty decent right now, we need some rain though. Let the mills get caught up some. Or I am afraid that quotas, price cuts or shutdowns are on the way. The mill closest to my place (about 10 miles away) has already shut down for a 8 week period after being swamped with storm damaged timber. We are cutting ALOT of blowdown timber right now, the tornado in March uprooted hundreds of acres of timber. I can't wait to see and cut some standing timber again!! We cut mostly poplar, red, white, black and chestnut oak, and hickory. We have got our share of pines too, white, southern yellow and black. But the pine market is terrible around here, maybe 150 a thousand for good big (30"+) white pine. I live south of Morehead Ky, "The hardwood capital of the world!" At least that's what the signs goin in and outta town say.
> 
> Tom



Things are the same here in northern MO. 
One of the close big mills is hiring our family operated mill to pick up there slack. 
150/thousand isnt bad for just cutting, espeacially when alot of it is going for house cants (3x8) and ties. Quick money. 

Seems things are picking up though, alot of mills shutting off loggers. But alot of mills getting swamped with orders and logs!


----------



## BERN-TIMBER

Does Pat build his own 660s?


----------



## wowzers

BERN-TIMBER said:


> Does Pat build his own 660s?



When I was working with him he got them at a local saw shop. Not sure about now.


----------



## wowzers

Haywire said:


> Yeah, word on the street is Olive's in Orofino, builds a mean saw.



That would be the one.


----------



## Metals406

BERN-TIMBER said:


> Does Pat build his own 660s?



Yes he does build his own. . .

I think Wowzers is thinking of Pat O. -- and the video is of Pat L.


----------



## wowzers

Metals406 said:


> Yes he does build his own. . .
> 
> I think Wowzers is thinking of Pat O. -- and the video is of Pat L.



I was talking about Pat L.


----------



## Metals406

wowzers said:


> I was talking about Pat L.



When did you work with Pat? When he was with Henderson?


----------



## wowzers

Haywire said:


> Hey wowzers, you coming over to the Darby show next weekend?



I wouldn't mind it, but unfortunately it is Potlatch Days too.


----------



## Rounder

Had to cut a little dab of ROW Thursday up Caffin Creek, just past Darby. Nice veiw coming back down.

View attachment 245699


Hate the Bitterroot, but it is pretty country.


----------



## Metals406

Rounder said:


> Had to cut a little dab of ROW Thursday up Caffin Creek, just past Darby. Nice veiw coming back down.
> 
> View attachment 245699
> 
> 
> Hate the Bitterroot, but it is pretty country.



You going to go down to Darby Logger Days tonight or tomorrow?

Jake said he's fix'n to stomp yer hide in the stock saw. LOL


----------



## Rounder

Metals406 said:


> You going to go down to Darby Logger Days tonight or tomorrow?
> 
> Jake said he's fix'n to stomp yer hide in the stock saw. LOL



Tomorrow, been commuting to ####in' Darby all week. I hope the chain cuts alright for John, no 84 DL bar for me to test it on.....Damn hot in the shop after work to be working on a chain, hopefully the heat didn't mess things up!


----------



## Metals406

Rounder said:


> Tomorrow, been commuting to ####in' Darby all week. I hope the chain cuts alright for John, no 84 DL bar for me to test it on.....Damn hot in the shop after work to be working on a chain, hopefully the heat didn't mess things up!



You ain't kidding. . . I skipped out on going to Darby with Rod today cause I felt like crap. I spent Wed-Thur in the shop busting out some handrail and didn't keep hydrated enough.

Stupid heat is killing me.


----------



## Rounder

No kidding, make yourself sick choking down water or end up dry sick. Cooled down a lot here with some storms, hopefully Darby will be tolerable tomorrow.


----------



## Metals406

Rounder said:


> No kidding, make yourself sick choking down water or end up dry sick. Cooled down a lot here with some storms, hopefully Darby will be tolerable tomorrow.



It helped cool down here some, but they were short lived -- not near as bad as the weather guessers said it would be.

Now it's gonna get hot again up until next week.

Darby should be tolerable tomorrow with a cold beverage in yer hand.


----------



## floyd

I tried to unload a hay trailer of sm squares before it got hot. Started at light. Didn't make it. Got cramps so bad I was screaming. I stayed hydrated but didn't keep up with loss of electrolytes as I was drinking water.

Funny, unloading hay trailers last yr I had to wear a wool vest, glad rag, gloves, long sleeves, & I still froze.


----------



## slowp

floyd said:


> I tried to unload a hay trailer of sm squares before it got hot. Started at light. Didn't make it. Got cramps so bad I was screaming. I stayed hydrated but didn't keep up with loss of electrolytes as I was drinking water.
> 
> Funny, unloading hay trailers last yr I had to wear a wool vest, glad rag, gloves, long sleeves, & I still froze.



The logging guys swear that pickle juice is the answer for cramps. Sounds yucky.


----------



## mile9socounty

slowp said:


> The logging guys swear that pickle juice is the answer for cramps. Sounds yucky.



2nd that advice. Also works well on drunks who have the hickups.


----------



## slowp

mile9socounty said:


> 2nd that advice. Also works well on drunks who have the hickups.



Does it work on non-drunks with hiccups?


----------



## Samlock

slowp said:


> The logging guys swear that pickle juice is the answer for cramps. Sounds yucky.



That's the cure, the guys know their business. It also prevents hangover. The trick is to drink the juice last thing before hitting the sack. You'll feel great in the morning.


----------



## mile9socounty

slowp said:


> Does it work on non-drunks with hiccups?



Yes it can. I have a friend that swears by it.


----------



## Gologit

Dill pickle or sweet pickle?


----------



## slowp

Gologit said:


> Dill pickle or sweet pickle?



Slices or whole?


----------



## paccity

with or with out tabasco.


----------



## redprospector

Will pickled Jalapeno juice work?

Andy


----------



## Gologit

redprospector said:


> Will pickled Jalapeno juice work?
> 
> Andy



How could it not?


----------



## tramp bushler

Metals406 said:


> You ain't kidding. . . I skipped out on going to Darby with Rod today cause I felt like crap. I spent Wed-Thur in the shop busting out some handrail and didn't keep hydrated enough.
> 
> Stupid heat is killing me.



46 and rain here in Valdez this morning. . Gotta love the coast. Especially being surrounded by glaciers.


----------



## hammerlogging

weather envy.


----------



## Metals406

tramp bushler said:


> 46 and rain here in Valdez this morning. . Gotta love the coast. Especially being surrounded by glaciers.



You suck Glen! 

I guess we'll see that kind of temp soon enough, just got to wait another 8 weeks or so.


----------



## tramp bushler

floyd said:


> I tried to unload a hay trailer of sm squares before it got hot. Started at light. Didn't make it. Got cramps so bad I was screaming. I stayed hydrated but didn't keep up with loss of electrolytes as I was drinking water.
> 
> Funny, unloading hay trailers last yr I had to wear a wool vest, glad rag, gloves, long sleeves, & I still froze.



You guys gotta use CYTO MAX. Its made by Cyto Sport . I've tried everything out there but always come back to cyto Max.


----------



## mile9socounty

Gologit said:


> Dill pickle or sweet pickle?



Dill.



slowp said:


> Slices or whole?



Doesnt matter.



paccity said:


> with or with out tabasco.



Your the one trying it.



redprospector said:


> Will pickled Jalapeno juice work?
> 
> Andy



Try it and tell us if it works.


----------



## redprospector

mile9socounty said:


> Dill.
> 
> 
> 
> Doesnt matter.
> 
> 
> 
> Your the one trying it.
> 
> 
> 
> Try it and tell us if it works.



Oh, it works alright.
A word to the wise. No matter how drunk you are, or how much the bet is for, do not under any circumstances drink all of the left over juice out of a gallon jar after all the Jalapeno's are gone.

I think that might be one of the reasons I needed to quit drinking. 

Andy


----------



## Samlock

redprospector said:


> Oh, it works alright.
> A word to the wise. No matter how drunk you are, or how much the bet is for, do not under any circumstances drink all of the left over juice out of a gallon jar after all the Jalapeno's are gone.
> 
> I think that might be one of the reasons I needed to quit drinking.
> 
> Andy



Now you're telling that, Andy!

Pickle juice need to be sour pickles (lacto-fermentated), by the way. Drinking large quantities of vinegar gives you heartburn. Or at least gives me.


----------



## Sport Faller

redprospector said:


> Oh, it works alright.
> A word to the wise. No matter how drunk you are, or how much the bet is for, do not under any circumstances drink all of the left over juice out of a gallon jar after all the Jalapeno's are gone.
> 
> I think that might be one of the reasons I needed to quit drinking.
> 
> Andy



There's not enough refrigerated baby wipes in the world for that


----------



## redprospector

Sport Faller said:


> There's not enough refrigerated baby wipes in the world for that



Ice cream works the best. If you don't heed my warning, you will be on fire for a week in places that were never intended to withstand heat. :msp_scared:


----------



## paccity

mile9socounty said:


> Dill.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your the one trying it.
> 
> 
> you can by them with the tabasco in them . pretty good if you ask me.


----------



## Joe46

Sport Faller said:


> There's not enough refrigerated baby wipes in the world for that



Or Ice Cream


----------



## mile9socounty

you can by them with the tabasco in them . pretty good if you ask me.


I've really cut back on how much adult carbonated drinks I have. But if the problem ever occurs. I will give it a shot and report bad with the results.


----------



## bitzer

Hammer- nice pics and video! Looks like some fun wood to cut.

Nice pics from everyone else too!

Couple of jobs ago, the day after the 4th. Nearly 100 degrees already and I was about to call it a day on the cutting. Throwin one down off of a little hip. 

Dutched the downhill side first, brought it back around to the front and gunned to the lay. Humboldt. Sniped the butt. Bored in behind the hinge just a little. (already on 3rd chain of the day at 9:30 and this one already lightly rocked. The trouble with glacial sediment dumps. rocks under every limb and buck.) Anyway, normally would have just back cut it, but I knew the chain wouldn't keep up. Pulled out of the bore, walked the saw around to the far side then back cut the rest. Its funny how the camera moves a little when the post snaps. She saved out. 50ft of logs. About average for that job. 

[video=youtube;XGoLiON8uVw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGoLiON8uVw[/video]


----------



## RandyMac

How are ya Bitz?


----------



## tramp bushler

Looks great! If I had been there you would of had to pack my corps out on the forwarder. 100 degree heat and your still cutting. Way to go! You the Man.


----------



## Rounder

Just gotta shave a little more off the wall, should be looking pretty sick by end of Friday....Too bad, good job and close to home......Never last long enough.

View attachment 246823


View attachment 246824


Nice views, have a good/safe week -Sam


----------



## paccity

looks good sam. looks like some of the stuff i cut on the east side of the cascades.


----------



## bitzer

RandyMac said:


> How are ya Bitz?



Tired. You?

I'm finally starting to figure out how to make money with this gig.


----------



## bitzer

tramp bushler said:


> Looks great! If I had been there you would of had to pack my corps out on the forwarder. 100 degree heat and your still cutting. Way to go! You the Man.



Ehh, I shouldn't ##### too much. I don't envy the type of heat Hammer gets to cut in every day. I'll bet that dry Montana heat is a killer too. Although if ya count wind chill and heat index I've now cut within a 140 degree temperature range in the last 6 months!

The key to summer time production is baby powder and a complete change of clothes before hoppin in the skidder! Apply liberally to any place that rubs or binds!


----------



## bitzer

Rounder said:


> Just gotta shave a little more off the wall, should be looking pretty sick by end of Friday....Too bad, good job and close to home......Never last long enough.
> 
> View attachment 246823
> 
> 
> View attachment 246824
> 
> 
> Nice views, have a good/safe week -Sam



Sam, I think you've got us all beat on the views!


----------



## hammerlogging

5 weeks already? we're going th hit 4 days today, taking one more day off, getting a bunch of work done to the truck while I'm sitting.

I don't think I probably have it worse than your midwest heat, really. TN was bad, WV pretty bad too, but the air is better here and the ground more broken for better shade conservation whilst strip cutting, higher elevation. 140 degrees! we don't have that wild of a ride either.

Sounds like you're doing well, making progress here too. 

Sam does have the views.


----------



## bitzer

hammerlogging said:


> 5 weeks already? we're going th hit 4 days today, taking one more day off, getting a bunch of work done to the truck while I'm sitting.
> 
> I don't think I probably have it worse than your midwest heat, really. TN was bad, WV pretty bad too, but the air is better here and the ground more broken for better shade conservation whilst strip cutting, higher elevation. 140 degrees! we don't have that wild of a ride either.
> 
> Sounds like you're doing well, making progress here too.
> 
> Sam does have the views.



Yup, 5 weeks and the guy doesn't like to sleep much at night. I'm startin to fill out a future crew though!


----------



## tramp bushler

For me it's about a 120 degree swing in temps. We had 80 degrees one afternoon. Thought my brains were going to come out my ears. Fortunately the next day was a day off and then it clouded up some. It was 70 here today. But there was a little breeze. Real buggy. And when a bush Alaskan says it's. Real buggy. It's REAL BUGGY! !!! 
About 42 below was my coldest day cutting last winter. Dead calm .. I'll take 40 below. Over 80 above any day! !! . No bugs :msp_rolleyes:


----------



## forestryworks

All these timber tippin' pics makes me miss it!


----------



## Metals406

forestryworks said:


> All these timber tippin' pics makes me miss it!



You didn't cut down at least half of New Mexico? Shame on you. . . Slacker. :msp_sneaky:


----------



## forestryworks

Metals406 said:


> You didn't cut down at least half of New Mexico? Shame on you. . . Slacker. :msp_sneaky:



The good, locally made beer caught my attention


----------



## 056 kid

forestryworks said:


> All these timber tippin' pics makes me miss it!



Miss it, you barely got enough for a taste. I say you gather your stuff and hit the woods brother!


----------



## bitzer

Some highlights from my last hilly job.

Stretched this ash out pretty nice. 2 12s, 2 10s, and 2 8s.





Snaking down the hill to the main road. 




Flat on top of the hill. 






Lately I've been cuttin swamps. We had no rain for nearly 2 1/2 months. Just crazy dry and no bugs. Not much for excitment though. Thicker than ####. Big timber, but high stumpin and buttin off a lot of the time. 

This little bastard scared the #### out of me as I was working my way up the stem. 





A siswheel that pulled well. This one was hanging over the highway pretty good. She needed to stay on the stump.





View attachment 247087

View attachment 247088

View attachment 247089

View attachment 247090

View attachment 247091


----------



## 056 kid

Did you V out that ses or just open it with a chunk straight out of the face? Pretty ash!


----------



## forestryworks

056 kid said:


> Miss it, you barely got enough for a taste. I say you gather your stuff and hit the woods brother!



Easier said than done, lol.


----------



## slowp

View attachment 247119






It isn't Texas up here. :msp_rolleyes:
Yesterday's lunch spot view.


----------



## forestryworks

slowp said:


> View attachment 247119
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It isn't Texas up here. :msp_rolleyes:
> Yesterday's lunch spot view.



Any place in the high mountain West is better than the heat in Texas right now, lol.

108 degrees yesterday. In the shade.

112 today. In the shade.


----------



## Metals406

forestryworks said:


> Any place in the high mountain West is better than the heat in Texas right now, lol.
> 
> 108 degrees yesterday. In the shade.
> 
> 112 today. In the shade.



I see why you scoffed at my 90° in the shade! 

We have yet to break 100° this year, and I hope we don't. :msp_biggrin:


----------



## mile9socounty

forestryworks said:


> Any place in the high mountain West is better than the heat in Texas right now, lol.
> 
> 108 degrees yesterday. In the shade.
> 
> 112 today. In the shade.



There's a line that Im trying to remember from Fear and Loathing. Oh yeah, "No sympathy for the devil." 

I'll drink one for you tonight to cool off.


----------



## 056 kid

forestryworks said:


> Easier said than done, lol.




I know, but you are capable. .


----------



## tramp bushler

Bitzer. That fox was dead wasn't it? ????? . Good looking cutting. Hows the 390 holding up? ?


----------



## tramp bushler

Not much of a pic. But a pic none the less




This one looks horizontal but it's still vertical when I took it




. Put a snipe on it. Steered it up the hill so it wouldn't take out the 3 main transmission lines at the Solomon Gulch power house.



.
Fuel bottle carriers


----------



## Metals406

Glen, that bottle setup is trick!

Nothing better than having some skills with leather, a guy can make just about anything.


----------



## tramp bushler

Ya it's handy. I kinda make lots of the stuff I use. I need t get a pic of the bar wrench carrier Cody made. I think he posted a pic of it some time ago.


----------



## mile9socounty

Glen I really like that crack jug setup you have there. Mine's not as pretty. Thin rope and a clip keeps it on my saddle. Kudo's man.


----------



## Metals406

tramp bushler said:


> Ya it's handy. I kinda make lots of the stuff I use. I need t get a pic of the bar wrench carrier Cody made. I think he posted a pic of it some time ago.



I bet ya he'd send ya his. . . I had that made for him.

He doesn't like it fer climbing, but said it'd be pretty good on the ground.


----------



## Sport Faller

The bottle holder's pretty cool
l.-r. Scotch, Water, Gin :biggrin:


----------



## tramp bushler

Ya I wear the bottles on the ground. But I am going to make a water carrier for my new climbing saddle..
. I used to use a loop with snaps in the lid of the fuel bottles. Maple syrup jugs made great fuel and oil jugs.


----------



## northmanlogging

you must work alone a lot cause carrying exter fuel and refreshments seems like a bung load of more work when you could just have a groundie do it for you, its that or I really wouldn't want to poke you in the eye in a dark alleyoke:


----------



## bitzer

056 kid said:


> Did you V out that ses or just open it with a chunk straight out of the face? Pretty ash!









View attachment 247352


----------



## bitzer

tramp bushler said:


> Bitzer. That fox was dead wasn't it? ????? . Good looking cutting. Hows the 390 holding up? ?



It was a coon and yeah he looked a little crispy. Must've gotten stuck on the way out. Thanks! I don't think I will ever use anything smaller to fall timber ever again!


----------



## tramp bushler

northmanlogging said:


> you must work alone a lot cause carrying exter fuel and refreshments seems like a bung load of more work when you could just have a groundie do it for you, its that or I really wouldn't want to poke you in the eye in a dark alleyoke:



Really aren't a lot of guys who'd want to poke me. I don't bring extra fuel up the tree. Thats what pimps are for. The bottles are for cutting. Saves a lot or walking. No sense walking when I could be cutting.


----------



## bitzer

tramp bushler said:


> Really aren't a lot of guys who'd want to poke me. I don't bring extra fuel up the tree. Thats what pimps are for. The bottles are for cutting. Saves a lot or walking. No sense walking when I could be cutting.



Yep when you can cut your way back to your jugs it works pretty slick. You always seem to run out of fuel when you're waist deep in brush and about to finish your last buck or two. 

Nice bottle set up and nice pics by the way! I made a new wedge pouch this week and have three bottles hanging from ropes on my wedge belt. I'll get a pic up when I can. I have a spare chain and bar wrench along with 3-4 wedges in it. Keeping everything at your finger tips really keeps the rhythm going. To me thats a big thing. Seems like when you can just keep hammering you get a lot more done. When you have to #### around looking for your jugs and gear you start throwing chains and pinching and all kinds of stupid bs. 

The 390 is at 100mbf and counting (200bf tree average remember). 100 cords too. What I meant to spit out last night was I will never use anything less than the 390/660 class of saws to fall timber again.


----------



## Rounder

Nice pics Bitz....I'm really sold on my 390 also. Hope they keep them around for a while, I'll be buying more for sure.


----------



## hammerlogging

Rounder said:


> Nice pics Bitz....I'm really sold on my 390 also. Hope they keep them around for a while, I'll be buying more for sure.



I have a guy cutting for me who just bought one, now that he ported the #### out of the muffler its really nice. Noticeably less power than the 660, but a sweet light nimble saw. Feels like a 460 but way more pwer than that. Pretty sweet. 

Got my new 660, and I am pleased.


----------



## gavin

bitzer said:


> View attachment 247352



Up here we call that a Johnny-hold-me-tight


----------



## gavin

hammerlogging said:


> I have a guy cutting for me who just bought one, now that he ported the #### out of the muffler its really nice. Noticeably less power than the 660, but a sweet light nimble saw. Feels like a 460 but way more pwer than that. Pretty sweet.
> 
> Got my new 660, and I am pleased.



I'd have to dispute the noticbly less power part! Just the other day I tried out a guy's walkerized 660 that my 390 would out cut! If only the 390's could put up the abuse a 660 will take they'd be pretty much perfect.


----------



## hammerlogging

gavin said:


> I'd have to dispute the noticbly less power part! Just the other day I tried out a guy's walkerized 660 that my 390 would out cut! If only the 390's could put up the abuse a 660 will take they'd be pretty much perfect.



May well be true and I wouldn't mind running one a bit!


----------



## Rounder

hammerlogging said:


> I have a guy cutting for me who just bought one, now that he ported the #### out of the muffler its really nice. Noticeably less power than the 660, but a sweet light nimble saw. Feels like a 460 but way more pwer than that. Pretty sweet.
> 
> Got my new 660, and I am pleased.



Glad you are happy with the 66 Joe. Shan does nice work that lasts. Now that I've had 66's and a 390 ported by him, I think the 390 is a hair behind in stump power....just a titch. Those 66's do have some stump power...I just like the nimbleness of the 390 when it comes to limbing.....But I'm only 5-11 and 150lbs....kind of a dink.


----------



## forestryworks

gavin said:


> Up here we call that a Johnny-hold-me-tight



That always cracks me up!

If I ever get back on the saw full time, I wanna try me a Huskyvarny.


----------



## tramp bushler

.Well, this is kindof a eat humble pie post. But it should be good for Weber Custom. 
On Friday I was cutting fiber optic line r.o.w. here in Glennallen. I klum, hung pulling lines in 8 small Silver Poplars then had the guys tug on them while I fell them with one of the company. 460 Huskies .
Then cut some more. Fist thing in the morning I fell 1 larger White Spruce with my 460 Stihl. The one with the Weber Custom full wrap h.b. No wind, good lean but close to the power lines. I had left it Thursday because if the wind.
So lunch tine came and I went up to where my wife works so we could have lunch together. The 460 Stihl was in the back of the wife's Geo Tracker.


----------



## tramp bushler

So I put the dog out + the wife and I have lunch. Part way thru lunch I set the 460 on the roof so I could load the dog up. Finished lunch , wife hopped out , I fired up the car and take off back toward work . The 2 guys I was working with were driving back at the same time. So kinda thick me thought we'd zoom back to work. The one behind me kept honking his horn, I thot I needed to go faster. So about the time I go thru 50 MPH I hear some scraping on the car roof hear a noise on the hwy. I look in the mirror and see the saw spinning line a top and sliding down the highway. It was sitting upright spinning like a top. I had a 32" b+c on it. . 

Because of the flat bottom of the h.b. it sits flat. It must have landed on the filler cap side of the tank cause the tank and cap are broke


----------



## tramp bushler

Here are some pics.



busted tank.



the only damage I can find on the h.b. a little of the coating wore off.




There were 4 cutters who got a crude flat grind. The other thing that helped it stay in a flat spin is I still have the single dog on it that I made up last winter.


----------



## tramp bushler

So thanks Mr Weber for making a great handle and thanks Nate for telling me Jamison had it for sale. And thanks Jameson for selling it to me.
200$ tank compared to a 900$ smashed up saw. . 
It was just an expensive lunch.


----------



## Metals406

Glen, that sucks pard!!

I sure hope that wrap helped in some way from the saw being totally junked.

Can't be much harder on a saw than a 50 mile an hour ride down some asphalt. :msp_scared:

You should post in the swap thread and see if someone has a tank.


----------



## bitzer

gavin said:


> Up here we call that a Johnny-hold-me-tight



What do you guys call a dutchman? Humboldt? Conventional? Just curious. Its interesting to hear all of the logging lingo out there. I swear I've talked to several guys about the same things, but neither one of us knew what we were talking about. 


On the saws- Stihls have that immediate snap to em and I do like how they feel in the hands. Huskys have a little wind up, but they run smooth as silk.


----------



## tramp bushler

Let me see what I have for pics up loaded.



.
This is a Humboldt undercut. With a snipe. I put a big deep face on this as it was the stob. I quartered it up the hill to get it to roll down the hill and the butt to turn the log as it rolled .. didn't want to put a thousand bird foot log thru the wall of the warehouse below. The snipe helped the butt to drop sooner.


----------



## tramp bushler

Board foot.



. Of course this is a conventional face. I should have used a Humboldt on this red cedar.


----------



## tramp bushler

Here if a butt log that shows the siswheel. You can see the cutter line where I put in the Humboldt, but I also had a kerf Dutchman in so the tree would settle into it so it would swing. I had put a step in the Dutchman so it would continue to settle in and swing.


----------



## bitzer

I meant the canadians Tramp?! Different names for the same cuts. Sucks about the saw man!


----------



## tramp bushler

I was wondering about that. What happened to the Saw Man. I've. Been studying my commercial drivers liscense. Book most of today.


----------



## bitzer

tramp bushler said:


> I was wondering about that. What happened to the Saw Man. I've. Been studying my commercial drivers liscense. Book most of today.



YOUR saw man! The one that went for an Al Capone style ride?


----------



## tramp bushler

I'm pretty smart huh. :confused2:


----------



## tramp bushler

Studying books that aren't interesting can suck the brain out of the brain.


----------



## mile9socounty

tramp bushler said:


> I've been studying my commercial drivers liscense. Book most of today.



Too bad the DMV couldnt make the books into some kind of gravy you can pour into your head. That stuff is overly dry and very boring. I really cant remember jack about the CDL book, or the test for that matter. I know milk tankers dont have baffles in them, dont need butter after a weeks drive. Good luck on the the liscense Glen.


----------



## tramp bushler

Ya. The fuel Truck has baffles. It's part time work. If I can pass the hazardous part of the test. As it is I can't even drive my own dump truck to gravel my own lot without a CDL. Plus the Guy I'm doing the r.o.w. cutting for has a good size dirt outfit. Needs a fill in gravel hack driver sometimes. 
Definitely not looking to sit on my a$$ full time to make a living. Maybe when I get old tho.

.
Well back to the book. Got 2 tests to take today.


----------



## tramp bushler

Well I'm not gonna be driving a fuel truck any time soon. But I got my Class B permit. So I got to make stumps today.




.
...



.
. The boss has an SDM4 so the Tramp gets to run Sharp chains. 
These White Spruce are kindof fuzz balls.


----------



## tramp bushler

First time I've run Oregon 52 AJ in around 20 years. It cuts good and is very forgiving as to old bars. Was running an old 3 rivet tip 32" on my 372 . 7 tooth rim.
I was going to run the boss's 288 small filter but a clutch shoe broke on it in the shop.


----------



## tramp bushler

bitzer said:


> YOUR saw man! The one that went for an Al Capone style ride?



I'll. Name that saw Al.


----------



## paccity




----------



## bitzer

paccity said:


>



Small fir huh? I'll bet those boys had some stories.


----------



## bitzer

Making a living on your ass is not for the faint of heart Tramp! Haha.

This was one of those wtf to do situations. Tree in the rear with busted top is marked. Busted top in near tree. The near tree on the left is leaning towards the busted top, but I figured about all it would do was glance off or make a bigger mess for me. So I faced the one with the busted top towards me and let the near tree pull everything over. As you can see that top was crotched in there pretty tight. 









700bf Ash. Nice lookin butt for the swamp. 




The fill bottles. Silver-water. Green-mix. Red-oil. The rings are threaded on my wedge belt.




Two pocket carpenter pouch. Used a small bolt to snug up the big pocket, which also made a nice little pocket for a pencil and bar wrench. Extra chain in the bottom pocket. Everything is tied and snapped in. Amazing how quickly things get lost in the woods. Yep brand new shiny wedges. I've never tried the blue ones. 






View attachment 248265

View attachment 248266

View attachment 248267

View attachment 248268

View attachment 248269


----------



## northmanlogging

do you guys ever confuse yer gas/oil//water bottles when they are hanging of yer belt like that?:msp_scared: Or would you even notice...


----------



## Samlock

northmanlogging said:


> do you guys ever confuse yer gas/oil//water bottles when they are hanging of yer belt like that?:msp_scared: Or would you even notice...



Everybody does that mistake once... but I'm sure nobody does it twice.


----------



## tramp bushler

I was thinning trees out of Petersburg in 84 when I learned the definition to the Norwegian word Ufda. 
Boss told me it was what you say when you pour bar oil in the fuel tank on your saw.
I know a Guy who mixed up his water bottle and his fuel bottle once he threw up for about 12 hours.


----------



## Samlock

Funny home video!

Cutting for a mechanized logging crew there. I was supposed to lay the trees uphill for a harvester to reach the tops and pull them up. Ok, there's a birch leaning downhill and a small spruce attached tight to it. I had them jacked good (a power line beneath) and was just tapping a wedge in as I heard something. You can see it on the video, but I didn't know what it was and I definitely didn't stay there to find out...

[video=youtube;CPYLfjlYCIQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPYLfjlYCIQ&feature=youtu.be[/video]


----------



## Plankton

We need more falling pics in this falling pics thread, unfortunately I cant help because the only recent photo I have I'm not even cutting but I'm about to (classic camera battery failure, right before the good stuff)

Cutting timber at a friends house for him to mill and build with:









Happy cutting everybody!


----------



## Sport Faller

Plankton said:


> We need more falling pics in this falling pics thread, unfortunately I cant help because the only recent photo I have I'm not even cutting but I'm about to (classic camera battery failure, right before the good stuff)
> 
> Cutting timber at a friends house for him to mill and build with:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Happy cutting everybody!



That chain looks like it wants to come off and hit you in the schnutz next time you wrap it up


----------



## Plankton

Thats how I usually run my chains so I can pry it back on the bar without taking the clutch cover off if it throws, of course it probably wouldn't throw as much if I kept it tighter but thats a whole nother story


----------



## coastalfaller

Plankton said:


> Thats how I usually run my chains so I can pry it back on the bar without taking the clutch cover off if it throws, of course it probably wouldn't throw as much if I kept it tighter but thats a whole nother story



Just gotta stick your knee in the bar to give it a bit of bend to put your chain back on when you throw it, takes no time at all. Then you can run your chain the proper tension. Just be careful if you're running a lightweight bar, you can bend them pretty easy.


----------



## Gologit

Tighten the chain. Soon.


----------



## bitzer

coastalfaller said:


> Just gotta stick your knee in the bar to give it a bit of bend to put your chain back on when you throw it, takes no time at all. Then you can run your chain the proper tension. Just be careful if you're running a lightweight bar, you can bend them pretty easy.



I'm always paranoid I'm going to break something when I try that. I just loosen up the nuts, spin the tensioner back a little, and roll er back over the nose. I can usually do it in about 20-30 seconds.


----------



## bitzer

Plankton said:


> Thats how I usually run my chains so I can pry it back on the bar without taking the clutch cover off if it throws, of course it probably wouldn't throw as much if I kept it tighter but thats a whole nother story



A guy wouldn't get much wood on the ground with that loose of a chain where I'm working now. LOTS of brushin out. I throw enough chains as it is. Amazing how prickly ash can grab a chain and take it for a ride. Some jobs I can let it sag a little though.


----------



## Gologit

bitzer said:


> A guy wouldn't get much wood on the ground with that loose of a chain where I'm working now. LOTS of brushin out. I throw enough chains as it is. Amazing how prickly ash can grab a chain and take it for a ride. Some jobs I can let it sag a little though.



LOL...It's easy to do. You go along cutting and you see the chain is sagging but you're almost done and you figure " Ah, I'll get it when I fuel" and you keep cutting and "Dammit"!

Not that I've ever done that, of course. :msp_wink:


----------



## coastalfaller

bitzer said:


> I'm always paranoid I'm going to break something when I try that. I just loosen up the nuts, spin the tensioner back a little, and roll er back over the nose. I can usually do it in about 20-30 seconds.



Give it a try, bitz, once you get the hang of it, you'll find it's way quicker and more convenient. As I mentioned though, if you run the lightweight bars go easy!


----------



## tramp bushler

Gologit said:


> LOL...It's easy to do. You go along cutting and you see the chain is sagging but you're almost done and you figure " Ah, I'll get it when I fuel" and you keep cutting and "Dammit"!
> 
> Not that I've ever done that, of course. :msp_wink:



I only did that twice today.


----------



## nahenaor0

hierarchical


----------



## tramp bushler

The bar bend roll your chain on works good down to a 30" bar. With a 28 " you really need to torque oner. Unless your chain is real loose. Actually throwing your chain a lot in a symptom of you either getting too narrow in your focus, too tired, or your brain wandering off the job at hand. Most of those can lead to an untimely death. So by the 2nd time in a short period anyone does it they need to stop and get there brain and body back on task. Or put the saw to bed for the day.


----------



## coastalfaller

tramp bushler said:


> The bar bend roll your chain on works good down to a 30" bar. With a 28 " you really need to torque oner. Unless your chain is real loose. Actually throwing your chain a lot in a symptom of you either getting too narrow in your focus, too tired, or your brain wandering off the job at hand. Most of those can lead to an untimely death. So by the 2nd time in a short period anyone does it they need to stop and get there brain and body back on task. Or put the saw to bed for the day.



Good point, Tramp. Didn't think of bar length! We just use 36's on average, the odd time bigger and the odd time 33's in second growth. 

All good points. Not to mention it will also likely happen when you've got your chain cutting just perfect!!


----------



## tramp bushler

Is it just me or what. Seems to be some trolls following me around.


----------



## mile9socounty

They are out there Glen and pop up once in a while. Rolling a chain on a 28" isnt too hard to do. Since that is what this company runs, its become really easy. You should hear the foreman ##### at us for putting out chains back on that way. Its a good laugh. Anything over a 30" is pretty easy. Even my 5'11" 151lbs skrawny @ss can do it with ease. Glad to read about being careful with the LW bars. Just bought a new Stihl LW at a whopping 180$ at the Myrtle Creek Saw Shop. Should have bought it here in Canyonville, their only 150$.


----------



## Jacob J.

mile9socounty said:


> They are out there Glen and pop up once in a while. Rolling a chain on a 28" isnt too hard to do. Since that is what this company runs, its become really easy. You should hear the foreman ##### at us for putting out chains back on that way. Its a good laugh. Anything over a 30" is pretty easy. Even my 5'11" 151lbs skrawny @ss can do it with ease. Glad to read about being careful with the LW bars. Just bought a new Stihl LW at a whopping 180$ at the Myrtle Creek Saw Shop. Should have bought it here in Canyonville, their only 150$.



You know better than to buy certain things at a certain saw shop. I thought you learned that lesson when you were buying those large-mount bars for your 075. I buy all my Husky and Jonsered stuff at one shop and all my Stihl stuff at another shop. 

BTW- when are you gonna trade me out of this 440/460 hybrid saw?


----------



## mile9socounty

When I can find Homelite saws for you that aren't all smashed up or the plastic design. Im pretty content with the saws I have right now. Just need to get a Husky or Jred 90cc saw as a back up for my 066. Possibly a Dolmar. One of these weekends I gotta bring a case of beer up and see your shop man.


----------



## Jacob J.

mile9socounty said:


> When I can find Homelite saws for you that aren't all smashed up or the plastic design. Im pretty content with the saws I have right now. Just need to get a Husky or Jred 90cc saw as a back up for my 066. Possibly a Dolmar. One of these weekends I gotta bring a case of beer up and see your shop man.



Yep. I'll you what- if you can find a decent 9010 you'd be styling. Those can be made into nice runners. I'm still looking for the Makita version. A 2188 wouldn't be too shabby either.


----------



## mile9socounty

2188 or a 390xp. Im starting to get more hours of cutting on the weekend. Since were in a Level 2 closure. After we shut the saws do, to be useful, Im oaky poking behind a cat. Fun stuff in 90 degree weather.


----------



## tramp bushler

A good stump. Opening up the line so I had to tap wedges some




.
.



.oops. I wish that wouldn't have happened. Huskies are prone to this.



. OK, so I guess I'll run the bosses saw.



.ya its not too big a timber, but it sure is limby.



. About 3' deep in fell and worked up


----------



## forestryworks

Nice to see a 064 still going.


----------



## tramp bushler

I wish they still made them. Them and the 288 . No doubt the 650 is a good saw but wasn't nuthin wrong with the 064 . Same with the 390 Husky.


----------



## Metals406

Took down a couple (@!##@*%#) Pondy's in Cd'A Idaho yesterday. The wife took some video too, but she accidentally hit the high speed switch, so it's 420 frames a second. . . Whhhhiiiiccchhh iiiissss sssllloooowwww. 

Now my legs hurt. :msp_sneaky:

Not used to climbing at all.


----------



## Jacob J.

Metals406 said:


> Took down a couple (@!##@*%#) Pondy's in Cd'A Idaho yesterday. The wife took some video too, but she accidentally hit the high speed switch, so it's 420 frames a second. . . Whhhhiiiiccchhh iiiissss sssllloooowwww.
> 
> *Now my legs hurt.* :msp_sneaky:
> 
> Not used to climbing at all



Time for you to eat more Oysters.


----------



## Metals406

Jacob J. said:


> Time for you to eat more Oysters.



Or my Wheaties!!


----------



## forestryworks

Cut out that monkey welding and start a tree biz. Compete with the Thomas


----------



## Sport Faller

Damn ol son, that's you up there?
nice job, might have to come over this week or next some time and shoot the bull with ya, plus I got so damn much rabbit I might need to unload a couple more


----------



## Metals406

forestryworks said:


> Cut out that monkey welding and start a tree biz. Compete with the Thomas



Naw, I'd just work with Cody! 

It's fun being on his jobs!


----------



## Samlock

tramp bushler said:


> A good stump. Opening up the line so I had to tap wedges some
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> That's brilliant!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .oops. I wish that wouldn't have happened. Huskies are prone to this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I feel it for you, Glen. Split another Husky clutch cover just two months ago. Spare part was € 95 (approx. $115)! Is this made of gold, I asked. I hope you'll get it covered cheaper, though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .ya its not too big a timber, but it sure is limby.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Looks a lot like stuff we got plenty of where I come from. Yes, I overheard you guys talking about doing 8-10 trunks per hour. Tree envy...
Click to expand...


----------



## Metals406

Haywire said:


> Hell, if I'd known you had mad climbing skills, I would have had you up here doing a few for me!
> 
> You get the Bar Shop?



Yup, got it a few other goodies. :msp_biggrin:

Still working on your "thing". . . As usual, I've taken a relatively simple concept, and made it way more complicated. :rolleyes2:

Cody has mad climbing skills -- I have something closer to madcow disease skills!


----------



## Greystoke

Dammit...I was hopin he would chicken out and call me...then that bar shop would be mine


----------



## tramp bushler

Samlock ; I was thinking this is a lot like your timber. I know this will prolly get me tramped of this thread, but I cheated on the limbing of the stuff under 10" on the stump. I used my little Jonnyred 2150 with an 18" bar. I just couldn't see the sense using a bushlin saw with a 32" bar for des fuzzing them. Too skinny for walking up and down them anyway. The bigger trees I used the 372 then 064 on. 
I'm not catty enough anymore to walk back and forth on 2 1/2" diameter poles. The better logs will be saw logs the poles and cull will go Firewood.





.


----------



## tramp bushler

Course, I might get tramped for upside down pictures



. Hopefully this one is upright.

Way t go Nate. !! If a chuub chub like me can climb, anyone can. Just takes more will power to go up where they are little to nip the top out. :msp_scared:


----------



## Metals406

If you keep climbing, you won't be chubby fer long Glen! That's a workout! :msp_ohmy:

I also learned the importance of a water bottle in the tree with you when it's 90+° out, while you're climbing and working up a tree.

I was sweating so hard my shirt was soaked. . . Had to climb down and chug lots of water as I was feeling dehydrated like a big dog. :frown:

Then back up again! Screw gym memberships, people need to buy some spurs and climb! :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## northmanlogging

thats part of the reason I convinced the skinny neighbor to climb most of the trees that and he's completely fearless, add me being fat too a swiss cheese leg and it makes climbing very unfun


----------



## tramp bushler

No Nate ; as long as my wife keeps cooking or I'm in a bunkhouse with a good cook house. I can't loose weight. Been trying for years. 

But, I make do.


----------



## floyd

You keep a round of birdshot in that?


----------



## Samlock

tramp bushler said:


> Samlock ; I was thinking this is a lot like your timber. I know this will prolly get me tramped of this thread, but I cheated on the limbing of the stuff under 10" on the stump. I used my little Jonnyred 2150 with an 18" bar. I just couldn't see the sense using a bushlin saw with a 32" bar for des fuzzing them. Too skinny for walking up and down them anyway. The bigger trees I used the 372 then 064 on.
> I'm not catty enough anymore to walk back and forth on 2 1/2" diameter poles. The better logs will be saw logs the poles and cull will go Firewood.



No question one of the best below -40 winter saws I've ever had.

By the way, that's not the angle I like to look at a loaded gun.


----------



## tramp bushler

floyd said:


> You keep a round of birdshot in that?



No, that's my wake up round. A 250 grain @1200 f.p.s.. A nice mild load, the rest are 335 grain w.f.n.cast @ 1100 fps.
I can load them hotter but then its harder to hold on to if my hands are tired. 
Thats why I don't shoot a 500 S+W. 
Ain't worth much if it gets away from you.


----------



## floyd

Helicopter driver friend of mine used to work for AK Helicopters.

He had a S&W SS .45 &.357. Sure was fun popping those off.

I worked near Hope Ak 1 yr. We were given an H&H.475 to carry around. Never could find a kid to pack it for us so we left it at camp.


----------



## tramp bushler

I take it you mean a 375 H+H . The 475 is relatively new and Extremely expensive. .. Bear protection is like a hard hat. Totally useless if you don't have it in its proper place .. What were you doing around Hope? ?


----------



## floyd

You are prolly right. Just knew I wasn't going to pack that thing around. 

Doing a USFS thing. Mostly inventory. 

We never saw a bear, just lots of moose.


----------



## tramp bushler

Now that Timmy T. Is bear scat the forest service is a lot more redneck, or shall we say adamant about their employees in the brush packing the 375 . At least in Hoonah they were. Can't work in the brush if they don't qualify every year. Girls too! 
Thats how it should be.


----------



## northmanlogging

ah guns, chainsaws, sharp bits of metal with handles, add a few noisy guitars and I'm in heaven:msp_wub:


----------



## floyd

I would expect more bears near Hoonah. 

I lived on Turnagain Pass. 

That particular district has ground on Afognak Island. I passed on that trip because my sweetie came to visit so I took vacation.

If I worked near Hoonah I would damn sure hire me a kid to pack that 375.

I was wondering about birdshot because anything else seems to make a mess of the occassional bird that might wander by the unit.

Not that any of us would shoot one without a license.


----------



## tramp bushler

Its not hard to pop the heads off grouse or ptarmigan with a 375 . Just aim at the top of their head. At least if they're just standing around. I've done it with 06s , 338. + 375 . . Just gotta make sure the bullet won't go south of their head! !!!!:msp_ohmy:


----------



## floyd

Yeah, long ago we used to shoot at grouse off horseback with a 30.30 

Hell, we even hit one every now & then. 

Great saddle rifle. Just need to put a little arc in it after 100yds or so.


I worked with a woman in AK. Boss was a lady. 

Just asked my work partner to tell me when the bears would Really like her. It was all good. All extremeties still intact & functional.


----------



## tramp bushler

Really cool stump. !!


----------



## tramp bushler

A couple pics from last Saturday





Getting things ready.




Starting up. 



.going up.




.




..



. 
Took me 2hours 20 min.


----------



## RandyMac

tramp bushler said:


> A couple pics from last Saturday
> Took me 2hours 20 min.



good ####!


----------



## mile9socounty

Glen I dont want to bust your bubble or anything. But that first pic, the one were your spurred up towards the base. The tree is skinnier than you are man. 

Looking good though. Gotta love trees right next to houses. That would be way too easy.


----------



## tramp bushler

Ya, it was 30" or so where I fell it. I was suprised at how tall it turned out to be. Not that I couldn't look at it. . For some reason? ?


----------



## mile9socounty

They can be a little tricky. Not look so tall from the ground but once your up in the sucker. Well thats a different bang. Hoped the paid you good for your work. Ive dealt with a few folks after I quoted them a price. Get the sucker limbed, topped and chunked down. Hand me half of what I quoted.


----------



## hangfirew8

mile9socounty said:


> They can be a little tricky. Not look so tall from the ground but once your up in the sucker. Well thats a different bang. Hoped the paid you good for your work. Ive dealt with a few folks after I quoted them a price. Get the sucker limbed, topped and chunked down. Hand me half of what I quoted.



Workman's lein on the house.


----------



## tramp bushler

They did pay great. I do have a problem knowing how to guote prices. But they definatly made it worth my while. The wife was the photographer and vidiographer. I need to get the video transferred


----------



## mile9socounty

hangfirew8 said:


> Workman's lein on the house.



I went about it in more an #sshole way. Left them the total mess to clean up. Yes it might be a bad wrap for me. But if I quote someone a price before I do the work and shake their hand. Its bad on their end. 

Looking forward to the vid Glen. Keep it up pard.


----------



## redprospector

mile9socounty said:


> I went about it in more an #sshole way. Left them the total mess to clean up. Yes it might be a bad wrap for me. But if I quote someone a price before I do the work and shake their hand. Its bad on their end.
> 
> Looking forward to the vid Glen. Keep it up pard.



I removed 9 trees from around a "gentleman's" house a few years back, two of which had a deck built around them. When I had everything done and cleaned up I called him, as requested. He told me that he had no intention of paying me, that the price we had agreed on was outrageous, and he would never pay that much to someone of my stature (I still haven't figured that one out, heck I'm almost 6').
This was his second home, he lived about 600 miles from here. I told him that if I didn't have the cash in my hand by dark the next day, I would cut every remaining tree on his sprawling 2 acres and leave the mess for him to pay someone else to clean up. The next day when I came home my wife handed me an envelope full of cash. He had his neighbor bring it to me. 
Then there was the time that I wound up in court over a very similar situation. Turns out that it's illegal to tell someone what you're going to do if they don't do what they said.  
I don't care much for "gentlemen".

Andy


----------



## redprospector

tramp bushler said:


> They did pay great. I do have a problem knowing how to guote prices. But they definatly made it worth my while. The wife was the photographer and vidiographer. I need to get the video transferred



Quoting prices is easy.
A customer asked me one day how I came up with a price on a hazard tree. I told him I walk around it 3 times looking it over. While I'm doing that I'm thinking what my butt is worth on that particular day. Then I start thinking about what the chances are that something will go wrong and I'll loose my butt falling out of that tree is. I then multiply the value of my butt by the % chance I'll loose my butt, the sum of which is your price.
My problem was realisticly figuring the chance of loosing my butt. 

Andy


----------



## forestryworks

Nobody wants to pay for good quality work anymore.

Like today...

I said, "$750 to fall, limb, and buck, and my sub will load and haul off the brush."
"Oh no, that's way too high."
"Okay, see ya."

The guy smelled like a bastard.


----------



## northmanlogging

the bass turds need to remember we know where they live... Have not as yet worked for the rich genteel type yet, try to avoid them as a rule, some folks don't mix so well


----------



## Samlock

forestryworks said:


> Nobody wants to pay for good quality work anymore.
> 
> Like today...
> 
> I said, "$750 to fall, limb, and buck, and my sub will load and haul off the brush."
> "Oh no, that's way too high."
> "Okay, see ya."
> 
> The guy smelled like a bastard.



Aye, aye, aye. It's most important skill of falling to know when it's time to walk away.


----------



## tramp bushler

northmanlogging said:


> the bass turds need to remember we know where they live... Have not as yet worked for the rich genteel type yet, try to avoid them as a rule, some folks don't mix so well




In Yankee not so much. I have had much more problems with blue collar than I have white collar.


----------



## Cody Colston

In the case of the "gentleman" I would have told him I would burn his damn house down if he didn't pay.

A man whose word is no good is simply taking good air from someone else, IMHO.


----------



## bitzer

Nice work again Tramp!


One of the last decent ash left in this swamp. I'm damn near out of the jungle now.





Trimmin up at the end of the day.




A good lookin sight!




So much talk of the Coos a week or two back. Here is the version I use and variations thereof. Its amazing how much you can get away with if the saw is sharp and you don't mind a little pull. This one didn't much at all. If its going to be really nice wood then I will take the time to bore a leaner or if it doesn't give me any other choice. The face is key regardless. 





View attachment 250388

View attachment 250389

View attachment 250390

View attachment 250391


----------



## tramp bushler

Man ; that is a nice looking sight. Good work! ! Looks like the dry weather has helped your access. Tho the grass looks green still. Its been raining here. Got everything ready to start brushing under powerlines tomorrow doing the high hard and dangerous stuff ahead of the Fecon head track machine. Cutting around the poles and guylines.
I use a Polaris 6x6 to go from pole to pole.


----------



## bitzer

tramp bushler said:


> Man ; that is a nice looking sight. Good work! ! Looks like the dry weather has helped your access. Tho the grass looks green still. Its been raining here. Got everything ready to start brushing under powerlines tomorrow doing the high hard and dangerous stuff ahead of the Fecon head track machine. Cutting around the poles and guylines.
> I use a Polaris 6x6 to go from pole to pole.



Thanks! Yeah we may be at normal rainfall totals for August but we went for nearly two months with no rain between May, June, and July. That along with little snow fall last winter its still pretty dry everywhere. Crops did bounce back though. That landing is in a hay field that got cut yesterday. When I got there it didn't look like much. Sounds like you're havin fun!


----------



## hammerlogging

Those are some fine loads bitzer! I hope you start buying timber like that and sending the kids to camp and ####. Could be 5500' or more on each of those.


----------



## paccity

[video=youtube;t1bMgOZBBT8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1bMgOZBBT8&feature=player_embedded#t=0s[/video]


----------



## Gologit

Nicely done.


----------



## paccity

Gologit said:


> Nicely done.



just a recent vid from a friend in s.e. ak. wish i was up to doin a little of that.


----------



## tramp bushler

Not casting aspersions , but he should have quartered it down the hill more. Would have pushed the break another log toward the top. But he may not have had the room.

Who's he cutting for, Crown?


----------



## Metals406

tramp bushler said:


> Not casting aspersions , but he should have quartered it down the hill more. Would have pushed the break another log toward the top. But he may not have had the room.
> 
> Who's he cutting for, Crown?



Glen, he had to miss a tail hold and a few other things. . . Not the ideal lay, but worked good in the end.

They're cutting on P.O.W, I can't recall the name of the outfit.


----------



## tramp bushler

OK. I figured there was something. .


----------



## paccity

you be the judge.:msp_rolleyes:[video=youtube;uZjzg5ibs3o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZjzg5ibs3o&feature=player_embedded#t=0s[/video]


----------



## rwoods

paccity, I'm a little woozy from the video but my first thought was this is going to be good as the cut is being started on the wrong side for the tree to fall in the direction of the little orange arrow painted on the ground. Finally got my eyes focused to realize that that was just a pile of wedges. Keep posting the pictures and videos as I enjoy them. Ron


----------



## paccity

rwoods said:


> paccity, I'm a little woozy from the video but my first thought was this is going to be good as the cut is being started on the wrong side for the tree to fall in the direction of the little orange arrow painted on the ground. Finally got my eyes focused to realize that that was just a pile of wedges. Keep posting the pictures and videos as I enjoy them. Ron



don't take anything to heart on that last vid. most of the f&l reg's will no who and what was going on.:hmm3grin2orange: a little blast from the past.


----------



## rwoods

To be candid, I was thinking what the heck slowp now has to mark on the ground the intended lay for every tree she marks for cutting - no wonder she retired. Ron


----------



## madhatte

paccity said:


> [video=youtube;uZjzg5ibs3o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZjzg5ibs3o&feature=player_embedded#t=0s[/video]



Filmed in genuine Lurch-A-Vision!


----------



## tramp bushler

I liked when the camera man dropped the camera to set the wedges. With that single Jack I thot we were gonna see some driving steel. :msp_rolleyes::msp_wink:


----------



## mile9socounty

Holy motion sickness. For a minute there I had a flash back when I was 15 and eating mushrooms. On a side note. Did any of yall see big foot running around in the background with all that shaking?


----------



## paccity

[video=facebook;428685867174534]http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=428685867174534[/video]


----------



## paccity

[video=youtube;ZSXbDZj0M2E]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSXbDZj0M2E&feature=player_embedded#t=112s[/video]


----------



## paccity

[video=facebook;396639993712455]http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=396639993712455[/video]


----------



## Metals406

I got to tip some timber last week.

I chose to use the 066 I built for the guy. . . It was waaaaay more saw than needed -- and I was pretty damn sore by the end! 

You can tell when you aren't used to tossing a 066 around all day fer sure. I'm hoping to go back again this week -- I love falling trees.

<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/KxtKZZvQTKw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


----------



## bitzer

hammerlogging said:


> Those are some fine loads bitzer! I hope you start buying timber like that and sending the kids to camp and ####. Could be 5500' or more on each of those.



Thanks Hammer! Yeah its always in the back of my head, "man I wish I was buying instead of contracting." I'm the lead guy cutting now for my mill and I'd hate to give up that spot on the steady work train, ya know? I don't know. I could be makin a hell of a lot more on my own I'm sure, but keeping wood in front of me everyday could be tricky. The forester has been buying a lot of sales within 50 miles of my house to keep my costs down and hes got work lined up right now for at least a year for me. He is always looking too. There is a 450bf/tree average job comin down the pipe at some point which I'm pretty excited about. Anyway, the truck and pup had 5400bf and some change and the flat bed had 4700 or so. The flatbed is only rated for 80k. Its nice when they run two a day for me like that. You as tired as I am with the young'ns in toe?


----------



## bitzer

Paccity- Thanks for sharing! Thats pretty much it. In the #### everyday. The trees may look different, but all in all timber falling is basically the same no matter where its at. 

Metals- It always feels good to get in the woods, huh? I'm thinking about tomorrow's lay out right now. I can't wait for sun up!


----------



## KiwiBro

paccity said:


> .



Wow. I thought 1:40 was a hairy moment until 2:50 rolled along.


----------



## OlympicYJ

bitzer said:


> Thanks Hammer! Yeah its always in the back of my head, "man I wish I was buying instead of contracting." I'm the lead guy cutting now for my mill and I'd hate to give up that spot on the steady work train, ya know? I don't know. I could be makin a hell of a lot more on my own I'm sure, but keeping wood in front of me everyday could be tricky. The forester has been buying a lot of sales within 50 miles of my house to keep my costs down and hes got work lined up right now for at least a year for me. He is always looking too. There is a 450bf/tree average job comin down the pipe at some point which I'm pretty excited about. Anyway, the truck and pup had 5400bf and some change and the flat bed had 4700 or so. The flatbed is only rated for 80k. Its nice when they run two a day for me like that. You as tired as I am with the young'ns in toe?



Hard to beat steady work!

Hey pac think you could make the vid visible? Says it's been removed or unavailable because of privacy settings.


----------



## Metals406

paccity said:


> [video=facebook;396639993712455]http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=396639993712455[/video]



I can't see this either Fraze -- not sure why?


----------



## Metals406

bitzer said:


> P
> 
> Metals- It always feels good to get in the woods, huh? I'm thinking about tomorrow's lay out right now. I can't wait for sun up!



It does feel good! Not sure if I'll break the 066 in anymore though. :msp_tongue:

I'll probably grab the 046 or something smaller yet (ms200t). 

The nice thing about falling fer the processor, is I can cross the lay a little here and there, and it doesn't bother him -- he can pick them off no problem.

I was camping the last few days with the family (last hurrah fer the year), but I need to call Ron and see if I made him some money. He was thinking he'd burn way less diesel if I was scrubbing and falling ahead of him.


----------



## paccity

i can see it.? i'll post it again and see what happens.


----------



## pdqdl

redprospector said:


> ... I told him that if I didn't have the cash in my hand by dark the next day, I would cut every remaining tree on his sprawling 2 acres ...
> 
> Then there was the time that I wound up in court over a very similar situation. Turns out that it's illegal to tell someone what you're going to do if they don't do what they said.
> I don't care much for "gentlemen".
> 
> Andy



Next time just explain to the officer that you simply planned on continuing to work on site until the customer felt you had earned the agreed upon price. It's pretty hard to prosecute someone on "They said/I said" issues. The only thing that really counts is what you tell the officers that come to investigate.

Be sure that you explain to them the illegal threats your customer made against you first. All of a sudden, the cops generally won't want anything to do with the whole mess. Unless, of course, you have the misfortune to be in conflict with somebody politically connected or that the cops like much better than you.


----------



## northmanlogging

I'm a think'n the "police" in Kansas must be a hell of a lot more polite then around here, Here they just haul both parties of and charge em with felony threat, or terrorism. But then again the last two chief pigs have been brought up on charges of fraud or drugs so maybe I'm biased


----------



## hammerlogging

bitzer said:


> Thanks Hammer! Yeah its always in the back of my head, "man I wish I was buying instead of contracting." I'm the lead guy cutting now for my mill and I'd hate to give up that spot on the steady work train, ya know? I don't know. I could be makin a hell of a lot more on my own I'm sure, but keeping wood in front of me everyday could be tricky. The forester has been buying a lot of sales within 50 miles of my house to keep my costs down and hes got work lined up right now for at least a year for me. He is always looking too. There is a 450bf/tree average job comin down the pipe at some point which I'm pretty excited about. Anyway, the truck and pup had 5400bf and some change and the flat bed had 4700 or so. The flatbed is only rated for 80k. Its nice when they run two a day for me like that. You as tired as I am with the young'ns in toe?



contracting is the way to go with steady work like that. If the volume stays there, and the relationship is good, the other is not worth it, even if you came across something for yourself, send it his way anyhow, just to say thank you! Especially with the little ones, and yes, lots of time taken up by things other than sleeping! Best to you man.


----------



## pdqdl

northmanlogging said:


> I'm a think'n the "police" in Kansas must be a hell of a lot more polite then around here, Here they just haul both parties of and charge em with felony threat, or terrorism. But then again the last two chief pigs have been brought up on charges of fraud or drugs so maybe I'm biased



It probably has more to do with job security. Lots of real criminals around here, the cops don't have time to play games with loudmouthed contractors and uppitty homeowners. The prosecution won't even prosecute a real criminal when they catch one, unless it is a slam-dunk conviction.

Cops in KCMO are real crime busters. They are generally some bad boys; "polite" is an insult they might ask you to retract. Honestly, their worst enemies to crime fighting are the prosecutors that keep them from doing their job. The nice cops are out in the small towns, where a big day is busting somebody for "felony threat".


----------



## Metals406

paccity said:


> i can see it.? i'll post it again and see what happens.



*Fraze, this is what I see:
*


----------



## Gologit

Same here.


----------



## paccity

don't know ? workin on it.:dunno:


----------



## 056 kid

Mostly hammer and his apprentice, but I have some in there from the last 7 days.


----------



## Metals406

056 kid said:


> Mostly hammer and his apprentice, but I have some in there from the last 7 days.



That's some good looking wood!


----------



## paccity

Metals406 said:


> I can't see this either Fraze -- not sure why?



can't figure it out? it's one of miles's vid's from just west of me. kinda cool . i think you have seen it nate.


----------



## Metals406

paccity said:


> can't figure it out? it's one of miles's vid's from just west of me. kinda cool . i think you have seen it nate.



Wonder if it'd work if it isn't linked thru FB?


----------



## forestryworks

paccity said:


> can't figure it out? it's one of miles's vid's from just west of me. kinda cool . i think you have seen it nate.



IF the video is uploaded onto facebook's servers through their video uploader, it usually doesn't show up outside of facebook. Or the video is set to "friends only".

I sure don't miss that damn website


----------



## northmanlogging

finally got some falling pics of me... lets see if'n this werks...View attachment 252865


----------



## northmanlogging

OK kinda, Using the basket case 046, (hey it was thirty bucks and its already hopped up)


----------



## Gologit

Nice stick.


----------



## northmanlogging

it's a shame the rest of em had a bunch of center rot. Guy I fell em for is a good friend and is trying to make ends meet, but we had to lose about 10' of 1/2-3/4 of em.


----------



## bitzer

056 kid said:


> Mostly hammer and his apprentice, but I have some in there from the last 7 days.



Ted! I'm glad to hear you're back on the saw. Thats an inter-estin' little log truck. Keep the pics comin!


----------



## madhatte

northmanlogging said:


> basket case 046, (hey it was thirty bucks and its already hopped up)



THIRTY BUCKS?!? That's a score!


----------



## KYLogger

Yeah! No kiddin! I'll tell you what, I will make you a deal you can't refuse; Double your money, and I might even be willing to pay shipping:biggrinbounce2::biggrinbounce2::biggrinbounce2:

Tom


----------



## northmanlogging

it came in a box missing a few parts but once I put it all back together again it fired up and has been my main saw for 3-4 years now... been nearly killed more than a few times, I file the rakers a little to far and some times it hooks on stuff and gets pulled out of my hands when the tree goes over... think I'd learn by now...:msp_unsure:


----------



## RandyMac

Can't wait to get my office setup at home, gotta old photo of my Uncle "Hoot" MacNaughton, in burnt off, logged OG Redwood, standing on a stump with an old saw.


----------



## paccity




----------



## RandyMac

Red saw Fraz?


----------



## forestryworks

Metals406 said:


> I got to tip some timber last week.
> 
> I chose to use the 066 I built for the guy. . . It was waaaaay more saw than needed -- and I was pretty damn sore by the end!
> 
> You can tell when you aren't used to tossing a 066 around all day fer sure. I'm hoping to go back again this week -- I love falling trees.



By god I wanna play!


----------



## RandyMac

forestryworks said:


> By god I wanna play!



Get yer BY GOD butt West laddy.


----------



## paccity

RandyMac said:


> Red saw Fraz?



looks red ,but it's orange. 272.


----------



## Samlock

Fiber puller






A chest high stump I made today:






An ugly birch from high stump. Don't ask me what's the thing on the right side on the picture.






Now that's better. Limbed and bucked.


----------



## Metals406

Cut that stump off at the ground and sell that burl!


----------



## Samlock

Metals406 said:


> Cut that stump off at the ground and sell that burl!



No can do - private land... The owner wants to have the burl, so I let him cut it off.


----------



## Steve NW WI

Samlock said:


> An ugly birch from high stump. Don't ask me what's the thing on the right side on the picture.



I can't resist: What's the thing on the right side in the picture? :msp_tongue:

Nice pics, are those birch destined for lumber, chipping, or firewood? Paper birch over here is generally nowhere near that limb infested, usually 20-30' of clean log with a puffy top.


----------



## Samlock

Steve NW WI said:


> I can't resist: What's the thing on the right side in the picture? :msp_tongue:
> 
> Nice pics, are those birch destined for lumber, chipping, or firewood? Paper birch over here is generally nowhere near that limb infested, usually 20-30' of clean log with a puffy top.



You tell me, Steve. I don't know. First I thought it's a part of my camera, but the colour doesn't match. Doesn't look like a finger either.

Few logs are going to a plywood mill, but most of that timber is sheer pulp.

Silver birch has usually a nice figure, but if it has too much space, it might grow ugly.


----------



## floyd

AKA wolf tree. 


They roll really far on steep ground if you drop em for entertainment.


----------



## palogger

the thing in the right side of the picture looks alot like the rear handle of the saw, if thats what your refering to


----------



## paccity

a stihl product to be exact.


----------



## DUGs-sawshop

THing on right of pic looks like saw sitting on the stump.


----------



## northmanlogging

ah I was happier thinking it was some kind of fancy European car or van, aliens maybe...


----------



## tramp bushler

Yup. Sam it looks you left the saw sitting on the stump and walked around to take the pic.

At least that's what it looks like. From half a world away. :msp_wink:


----------



## Samlock

Yes, of course. That's the rear handle. Relief. Thank you guys, I'm not crazy after all.


----------



## hammerlogging

Samlock said:


> Yes, of course. That's the rear handle. Relief. Thank you guys, I'm not crazy after all.



oh, ok, good.


----------



## bitzer

Yee-haw! The wind was coming late morning so I had everything laid out already when the bottom av spring went. Had to buck everything up, but made er work. 







I may never bore again. White oak that was leaning way out there. 





T handle Coos!





When I looked at this job in March this was full of water. Makes for a short skid!





Makin Time! Bunkin 200bf+ at a crack makes for quick 1200bf turns.





View attachment 254569

View attachment 254570

View attachment 254571

View attachment 254572

View attachment 254573


----------



## northmanlogging

gots some more pics of the cedar job this'n was a double that spit up when it landed, probably should have been more scary...


----------



## trees2

*White oak coos ,*



bitzer said:


> Yee-haw! The wind was coming late morning so I had everything laid out already when the bottom av spring went. Had to buck everything up, but made er work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I may never bore again. White oak that was leaning way out there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> T handle Coos!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I looked at this job in March this was full of water. Makes for a short skid!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Makin Time! Bunkin 200bf+ at a crack makes for quick 1200bf turns.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 254569
> 
> View attachment 254570
> 
> View attachment 254571
> 
> View attachment 254572
> 
> View attachment 254573



Which way did he go, wich way did he go ! da silly wabbit.


----------



## trees2

northmanlogging said:


> gots some more pics of the cedar job this'n was a double that spit up when it landed, probably should have been more scary...



High stump, bad back or just a flower pot stand?


----------



## bitzer

northmanlogging said:


> gots some more pics of the cedar job this'n was a double that spit up when it landed, probably should have been more scary...



Those high doubles are a pain. Either you cut low and hope they stay together, cut high, or rip em first.


----------



## northmanlogging

trees2 said:


> High stump, bad back or just a flower pot stand?



If'n ya look real close there is some barbed wire running through it... got more pictures but my eenternut conection is kinda crapy...


----------



## paccity

sometimes they split when they hit.


----------



## Samlock

I see you had chance for a nice sitz bath too, North.


----------



## northmanlogging

Yep they split when they hit. Another reason for the high stump is all the funk needs bucked off anyway...


----------



## northmanlogging

Another high stump for ya... 
a low stump just don't pay any attention to the fence...
and a rotten bastard had to swing between a chicken coop and an old utility trailer...


----------



## Metals406

Freaking cedar. . . Always rotten when they get any size in'em.


----------



## northmanlogging

Ya but it usually doesn't go to far up the stem so ya can still get a few good logs out of em, That last one I'm not so sure about, it was pretty funky, I was just putting em on the ground the homeowner wants to do all the bucking and limbing, skidding and well everything except the scary stuff around his house :msp_scared: He would probably do it all if he could lift his big saw still and run out of the way


----------



## Metals406

northmanlogging said:


> Ya but it usually doesn't go to far up the stem so ya can still get a few good logs out of em, That last one I'm not so sure about, it was pretty funky, I was just putting em on the ground the homeowner wants to do all the bucking and limbing, skidding and well everything except the scary stuff around his house :msp_scared: He would probably do it all if he could lift his big saw still and run out of the way



Too true. . . It just sucks to see a 5' tree go over and you have to long-butt 30' of it. Sometimes they have enough rind to make it worth using for split rail or something.

I've seen some toad spruce here with the same affliction.


----------



## Cedarkerf

Careful posting pics of the doubles the AS safety patrol will come and tell you how it shouldnt or cant be done.:jester:

It was funny all the comment I got from this pic


----------



## Frank Savage

Just found these, I thik you may apreciate it:


Stupid music (for me), but otherways compilation of some pretty decent trees, some nasty snags coming apart on the impact or even on the stump, piledrives due to tangled limbs...
WestCoast Falling - YouTube

Pretty ugly broken top cedar snag:
Jer's Big Cedar - YouTube


----------



## northmanlogging

Cedarkerf said:


> Careful posting pics of the doubles the AS safety patrol will come and tell you how it shouldnt or cant be done.:jester:



Yeah well they wudn't there so... and I can still count to 20... besides compared to most of the stuff that day the double was an easy one


----------



## Rounder

View attachment 254828


You know you're a big-shot timber faller when the skidder operator blades the road for you on your way out.....That or he just feels sorry for the dip-#### in the Justy.

Hope you all had a good, safe week - Sam


----------



## bitzer

Rounder said:


> View attachment 254828
> 
> 
> You know you're a big-shot timber faller when the skidder operator blades the road for you on your way out.....That or he just feels sorry for the dip-#### in the Justy.
> 
> Hope you all had a good, safe week - Sam



I tell ya man, you've got the views!


----------



## Rounder

bitzer said:


> I tell ya man, you've got the views!



When I can see through the smoke, yeah I do.


----------



## Metals406

Rounder said:


> When I can see through the smoke, yeah I do.



No joke there. . . This BC cold front will give it the smackdown this week.

Supposed to be 49° for a high Friday.

An instant cool down will be hard to adjust to. :msp_sneaky:

The least it could do is sneak up on us, not *BLAM *cold weather.


----------



## madhatte

That same cold front is scheduled to give us a foehn wind event. Joy. 


Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express


----------



## GASoline71

I made more high stumps this weekend. Don't have any pics... but just wanted to say I did it because I can.

Gary


----------



## Rounder

Metals406 said:


> No joke there. . . This BC cold front will give it the smackdown this week.
> 
> Supposed to be 49° for a high Friday.
> 
> An instant cool down will be hard to adjust to. :msp_sneaky:
> 
> The least it could do is sneak up on us, not *BLAM *cold weather.



I'm starting to get a real bad feeling that we are going to go from sweating one's ass off, directly to snow...At least at work elevation. I don't like getting ####ed out of fall working weather!


----------



## hammerlogging

Rounder said:


> I'm starting to get a real bad feeling that we are going to go from sweating one's ass off, directly to snow...At least at work elevation. I don't like getting ####ed out of fall working weather!



yep, fall, the best season. beautiful time to be a faller, clear blue skies, crisp air, leaves gently falling- for us at least. Been wanting to give you a call, just busy. Hope all is well.


----------



## Hddnis

At this point I'll take snow. Any form of precip is better than the bad case of tender dry we have right now. I'm afraid to think about fire right now for fear that some dry bit of brush somewhere will read my mind and start combusting. Even the oldtimers are saying they've never seen it this dry. (They usually say it every year, but this year I believe them.)




Mr. HE


----------



## slowp

I have washed and waxed the Tomato pickup. If that doesn't work, maybe I'll do the Chevy too.


----------



## DavdH

Washed my pickup, water truck got it does that count? Water truck raises more dust than it settles. Still possibility of record breaking highs..


----------



## Hddnis

I live on a long gravel road so washing the truck kind of cancels out for me; either muddy or dusty.



Mr. HE


----------



## mile9socounty

Please make it rain. This summer, heat thing has drawn on long enough. Granted I like seeing the sun. But my pale skin has tanned (that never happens to this ginger). We're still in a level 3 closure here. RFP, Seneca and Lone Rock Timber have all shut their lands down to the public and industrial sides. LRT put out a notice to their own folk, to say off their land or else.


----------



## Rounder

Rounder said:


> I'm starting to get a real bad feeling that we are going to go from sweating one's ass off, directly to snow...At least at work elevation. I don't like getting ####ed out of fall working weather!



Looks like I should not have said that. Looks like snow on the block in the morning. Winded out by 11 today, something must be making it's way over. Any preview coast people?


----------



## madhatte

Rounder said:


> Any preview coast people?



From this afternoon's NOAA fire weather forecast:



> .DISCUSSION...THE STRONG UPPER LEVEL RIDGE BUILDING OFFSHORE WILL
> DOMINATE THE WEATHER PATTERN THROUGH NEXT WEEKEND...PRODUCING A
> PROLONGED PERIOD OF VERY DRY WEATHER AND LIGHT EAST WINDS.
> 
> SURFACE HIGH PRESSURE BUILDING OVER SOUTHERN BRITISH COLUMBIA THIS
> AFTERNOON IS MOVING A VERY DRY AIR MASS SOUTHWARD OVER EASTERN
> WASHINGTON AND THE CASCADES. AS THE HIGH SLIDES SOUTHEAST OVER THE
> ROCKIES TONIGHT...EASTERLY WINDS WILL BEGIN DEVELOPING ACROSS
> WESTERN WASHINGTON. THE COMBINATION OF THE ALREADY DRY AIR AND THE
> EASTERLY FLOW WILL CAUSE RELATIVE HUMIDITIES TO DROP INTO THE 20 TO
> 35 PERCENT RANGE THE NEXT FEW DAYS WITH POOR TO MARGINAL HUMIDITY
> RECOVERY AT NIGHT.
> 
> THE STRONG RIDGE WILL REMAIN ANCHORED OFFSHORE INTO EARLY NEXT WEEK
> PUTTING WESTERN WASHINGTON IN A PROLONGED PERIOD OF DRY EASTERLY
> WINDS. THE WINDS WILL REMAIN PREDOMINANTLY LIGHT...BUT THERE COULD
> BE SHORT PERIODS OF LOCALIZED MODERATE EAST WINDS THROUGH FRIDAY.



What this means to you is that we are about to steal your good weather, and we don't want it.


----------



## Metals406

Rounder said:


> Looks like I should not have said that. Looks like snow on the block in the morning. Winded out by 11 today, something must be making it's way over. Any preview coast people?



It's not from the coast -- it's right out of Canuckistan. You guys are supposed to see very little precip from this, where we're supposed to get it all.

Then back to warmer and drier than normal.


----------



## slowp

It is just windy. The wind started about an hour ago.


----------



## Metals406

slowp said:


> It is just windy. The wind started about an hour ago.



Yeah, been windy all day here. . . It should help push the fires around some.


----------



## Hddnis

Metals406 said:


> Yeah, been windy all day here. . . It should help push the fires around some.





Right now it is pushing dust, dry leaves, dry grass and dry needles all over the place. Still carrying plenty of smoke too, but that is nothing new. It has been so smokey around here that all a fellow had to do enjoy some Tillamook smoked chedder cheese, was to eat regular cheese slowly. It is smoked by the time it gets to your mouth.



Mr. HE


----------



## OlympicYJ

It was blowin like crazy here in Moscow lil over an hour ago. Was rockin the trailer lol


----------



## Hddnis

OlympicYJ said:


> It was blowin like crazy here in Moscow lil over an hour ago. Was rockin the trailer lol





We got it now. (Wahas)

Normally wind like this leads a storm in and we get some rain within a couple of hours. Not this time. Looks like I'll still have time to finish the new roof.




Mr. HE


----------



## northmanlogging

I'm kinda hoping it will stay dry just a few more weeks so I can get the last few loads out this year, Then it can snow like a bastard until june


----------



## Metals406

Snow right above my place overnight. . . That'll help quell the fires that are 4,000' and above.


----------



## slowp

We got frost. I guess my tomato crop is ruined. Let me see, I got 4 this year so they are 50 cent tomatoes.


----------



## Metals406

slowp said:


> We got frost. I guess my tomato crop is ruined. Let me see, I got 4 this year so they are 50 cent tomatoes.



You need to make a hoop house this spring, it'll let you get a crop of $0.02 tomatoes. And whatever else you want to grow in there.


----------



## Sport Faller

Haywire said:


> Hey Canada, you can have your gift back. No more snow until at least November eh




Aye Mang, how's things, haven't barked at you in a while
damn wind last night damn near blew the roof off the hog shed


----------



## Sport Faller

Haywire said:


> Pretty dang good man. Been out on the trails every free chance we get, selling firewood to keep the machines in petrol.
> 
> You go over to Orofino last month?



Nah, didn't make it, had all kinds of stuff goin


----------



## tramp bushler

Weather has been weird here. Quite warm this week. Like 1 st week of September Wx. It should be freezing every night.


----------



## paccity

do spars count.


----------



## Joe46

paccity said:


> do spars count.



Layed em out nice:biggrin:


----------



## H 2 H

paccity said:


> do spars count.




Best thing about those there isn't much of a limb clean up afterwards 

:msp_thumbsup:


----------



## paccity

this is how i pull the stumps.


----------



## FSburt

Just a pic of me posing by a big Doug Fir up on the Wenatchee River just north of Lake Wenatchee in Washington. I did not have my D tape to measure it but my guess its was at least 9 feet through. There were quite a few lumkins up this road and I figured they were left for a reason as this looked like some easy tractor ground.


----------



## Cedarkerf

Not a Falling pic I guess more of a sitting pic from a couple weeks ago. A big leaf maple with a lean 180 opposite open space verses fences and shed.


----------



## H 2 H

Cedarkerf said:


> Not a Falling pic I guess more of a sitting pic from a couple weeks ago. A big leaf maple with a lean 180 opposite open space verses fences and shed.



Nice chair :msp_smile:


----------



## Rounder

Part of the fun of an $800 crummy is seeing just how close you can lay your hi-bank timber to it before you have to slide back down the cut slope and move it. This was from the last tree of this little block. I like it.

View attachment 256312


View attachment 256313


Take care - Sam


----------



## paccity

just wondering why no one said anything about my semi slopping super gunning cut on the one spar. :rolleyes2:


----------



## slowp

paccity said:


> just wondering why no one said anything about my semi slopping super gunning cut on the one spar. :rolleyes2:



I noticed it, but was being polite. I did enough damage at LaPine to egos. :msp_biggrin:

I figured if you did it, it was needed. Right?


----------



## floyd

Are those Stage 1 inventory tags on that fir near Wenatchee?


----------



## slowp

floyd said:


> Are those Stage 1 inventory tags on that fir near Wenatchee?



Hah, somebody else thinks that. I did not see a diamond blaze on it, so didn't think so.


----------



## floyd

All I recall is nails & tags. This was in the 80's in MT.


----------



## madhatte

Check it: a guy with a camera and some editing skillz can make me look way WAY cooler than I actually am. 

[video=youtube_share;1BzZrRuUWX0]http://youtu.be/1BzZrRuUWX0[/video]


----------



## madhatte

Haywire said:


> Shop needs an old 2t enduro in the corner to tinker on.




Y' offerin'?


----------



## Metals406

My deposits are dusty and fluffy too. :msp_wub:


----------



## paccity

slowp said:


> I noticed it, but was being polite. I did enough damage at LaPine to egos. :msp_biggrin:
> 
> I figured if you did it, it was needed. Right?



kinda experimenting . not everyday you get to fall something strait with no limbload to see what works and what don't. but they laid nice and flat, just put a little bow in the caps/flagpoles that where on the top. i'll go back to no slopp cuts from now on.:msp_wink:


----------



## bitzer

From last week. Almost wrappin this job up. Damn rain.


























View attachment 257872

View attachment 257873

View attachment 257874

View attachment 257875

View attachment 257876


----------



## Erock

Doug fir snag




28" bar




Walking the line making sure its holding




View attachment 258854

View attachment 258855

View attachment 258856


----------



## tramp bushler

Bitzer. I sure like your pics. I get to see what you did instead of having to see what you did wrond. I likethe tape plugged in and taking a pic. A true high production ####ract logger who is Also a real good Faller and bucker . 

Right on. :msp_thumbup::msp_thumbup::msp_thumbup::msp_thumbup::msp_thumbup:


----------



## tramp bushler

Erock ; where was the fire? ?


----------



## Erock

tramp bushler said:


> Erock ; where was the fire? ?



Bridger-Teton NF. Only about 8 miles from my station which is near Moran, WY


----------



## tramp bushler

I was working with a guy this fall who cut down in Wyoming this past summer on fires. He's from Chitna. Alaska. Said it was steep, dry and the people were unfriendly. Which surprised him, he had figured Wyomingites would be kind of like Alaskans.


----------



## tramp bushler

Hey, I just made my 2,000th post.

Don't draw too many conclusions from that please.


----------



## Metals406

tramp bushler said:


> Hey, I just made my 2,000th post.
> 
> Don't draw too many conclusions from that please.



Glen, y'all got snow yet? Dumped 6" on us last night, and more tonight.


----------



## OlympicYJ

tramp bushler said:


> I was working with a guy this fall who cut down in Wyoming this past summer on fires. He's from Chitna. Alaska. Said it was steep, dry and the people were unfriendly. Which surprised him, he had figured Wyomingites would be kind of like Alaskans.



Glen it's not the Wyo folks it's all the greenies and californicators that moved there!


----------



## tramp bushler

Yes, we've had snow for a couple weeks. The past several mornings its been below zero. This morning it was 17 below yesterday 12 below. Day before 5 under.


----------



## Rounder

Metals406 said:


> Glen, y'all got snow yet? Dumped 6" on us last night, and more tonight.



Dammit Nate, I'm sitting here trying to ignore all my wet clothes hanging next to the stove and enjoy my evening, and you've got to bring up that white ####


----------



## tramp bushler

I'm not positive winter is here yet. But I'll be glad when it is. Just got a couple grouse an hour or so ago. Popped their heads with my 223 fur rifle. Wife just put them in the oven 15 min ago hey is it dark in Mont. Yet. Still daylight here.


----------



## tramp bushler

I'm. Real glad the bugs and tourists are gone. I don't mind the tourists. But when they are around the bugs are around too.


----------



## northmanlogging

tramp bushler said:


> I was working with a guy this fall who cut down in Wyoming this past summer on fires. He's from Chitna. Alaska. Said it was steep, dry and the people were unfriendly. Which surprised him, he had figured Wyomingites would be kind of like Alaskans.[/QUOT]
> 
> 
> I grew up a little in WY, while its beautiful country, and lots of fond memories of good hunting fishing and camping, I know too many people that think I owe em somthing, like a hug... last time i saw my step brother (one of the times he wasn't in prison) he begged me for a hickory shirt...


----------



## tramp bushler

Was he naked or poor?


----------



## northmanlogging

no just covered in ugly prison tattoos of mostly the hate type origin, very loud, rude, and at one of my favorite watering holes, couldn't wait to get rid of him and the step drunk, so sacrificing a shirt no big deal, (it was that or shoot em both) plus it added to the myth of me that that side of the family has been spreading for 20 some odd years...


----------



## Metals406

tramp bushler said:


> Was he naked or poor?



Or a mooch!!


----------



## tramp bushler

Ya, I wouldn't want to live there, but then I don't have to. Couldn't imagine being land locked.


----------



## tramp bushler

Something is messed up with the notifications. Nate, what time does it get dark there now. ?? It was 12 below when I got up this morning.


----------



## Rounder

Haywire said:


> About a month to damn soon! Wasn't it just summer?



I've been up on Stemple Pass, and I'm not kidding, it was about a week and a half between sucking smoke and sweating my ass off, to putting on winter tires and winter clothes.


Oh well, only have to deal with it till mid June


----------



## tramp bushler

Hey, its been below 0 every morning this week. Close to 20 below some mornings.


----------



## floyd

Keeps the riff raff out.


----------



## Metals406

tramp bushler said:


> Something is messed up with the notifications. Nate, what time does it get dark there now. ?? It was 12 below when I got up this morning.



It's been getting dark around 6:30pm -- minus 12 seems mighty cold for only being October.


----------



## Metals406

Rounder said:


> I've been up on Stemple Pass, and I'm not kidding, it was about a week and a half between sucking smoke and sweating my ass off, to putting on winter tires and winter clothes.
> 
> 
> Oh well, only have to deal with it till mid *June*



That's not funny!! It's true, but not funny. :msp_sneaky:

:msp_wink:


----------



## tramp bushler

Oh, it'll be OK Nate. March is my favorite month. No bugs. 30 below at night 30 above during the day. I just wish it would stay March for most of the year.


----------



## northmanlogging

I kinda like the +teens cold enough to feel it and it seems to dry everything out a little bit, most of the winters here hang around 33-37 and damp so it grabs you by the bones and doesn't let go


----------



## floyd

Damn good thing the sun never shines as well. Hard to whine about being cold when warm sun is on your face.

I recall one Nov it rained every day.

For the TFalls-Plains folks. Long ago I marked & cruised a sale somewhere out of Tfalls in 4' of snow. Of course we lit a pitch stump for lunch. By the time we started up in the PM we were about 100' from the stump & 1/2 naked because it was so damn hot.

T Falls one those depressing places in winter. I lived in a canyon S of town. 

At that time Champion was hauling trainloads of nice yellow PP out. Doing their cut n run thing. Like they have from Great Lakes to the West Coast They sold out here in the 80's in OR then in the 00's in WA.


----------



## slowp

View attachment 259463
View attachment 259464
View attachment 259465
View attachment 259466


Pictures from roaming around behind the house yesterday.
Looking NE.











Looking towards Mt. Adams, which you can't see, of course.





Looking towards Idaho and Montaaaana. They're only a couple hundred and more miles that way.


----------



## Rounder

floyd said:


> Damn good thing the sun never shines as well. Hard to whine about being cold when warm sun is on your face.
> 
> I recall one Nov it rained every day.
> 
> For the TFalls-Plains folks. Long ago I marked & cruised a sale somewhere out of Tfalls in 4' of snow. Of course we lit a pitch stump for lunch. By the time we started up in the PM we were about 100' from the stump & 1/2 naked because it was so damn hot.
> 
> T Falls one those depressing places in winter. I lived in a canyon S of town.
> 
> At that time Champion was hauling trainloads of nice yellow PP out. Doing their cut n run thing. Like they have from Great Lakes to the West Coast They sold out here in the 80's in OR then in the 00's in WA.



Seems like T falls is always a hot spot in the summer too. Buggy. I try and stay away from there.


----------



## Metals406

tramp bushler said:


> Oh, it'll be OK Nate. March is my favorite month. No bugs. 30 below at night 30 above during the day. I just wish it would stay March for most of the year.



Damn Glen! We're gonna have to start calling you Polar Bear! LOL


----------



## FSburt

Well so much for any more wildfires up there. Put a fork in it time for some pile burning now.


----------



## Samlock

tramp bushler said:


> Oh, it'll be OK Nate. March is my favorite month. No bugs. 30 below at night 30 above during the day. I just wish it would stay March for most of the year.



March is one of my favorites too. The only thing is that you can walk on snow in the morning, but sometimes it won't hold after noon. Every third or fourth step goes in. But that March light after dark winter!

The days are getting shorter, though. Glen, are you sitting over the dark season or do you bother? I'm mostly sitting. Just a thinning job and a small clear cutting patch scheduled for December - January. Plus alarm jobs of course (not many, I hope).


----------



## OlympicYJ

It's been 60's during the day and high 30s to low 40s at night here in Moscow complete with rain.

When the old man was turnin wrenches up on the haul-road and pipeline in AK (back when the were building both) He really liked twenty below. Said it was best working weather for him cuz it wasn't too cold but everything was nice and dry. He could roll out from under a piece of equipment and just brush off.

Twenty below is good for driving in, in my opinion. Spent about nine months in Fairbanks and any warmer than twenty below and she started gettin a lil slick. The old man says the same thing.

I'm ready for some cold weather and snow over here in Idaho!


----------



## Samlock

Today's eyesore. Or perhaps a blight?







Just as I was bragging about taking it a wee bit slower during the short day period - the jobs are piling up and I'll have more than I can possibly handle. 

Me and my big mouth. Where's my headlight?


----------



## tramp bushler

Samlock said:


> March is one of my favorites too. The only thing is that you can walk on snow in the morning, but sometimes it won't hold after noon. Every third or fourth step goes in. But that March light after dark winter!
> 
> The days are getting shorter, though. Glen, are you sitting over the dark season or do you bother? I'm mostly sitting. Just a thinning job and a small clear cutting patch scheduled for December - January. Plus alarm jobs of course (not many, I hope).



Once I get some more home Firewood in, my goal is to do as much predator hunting as I can .. I have my eye on a new wolf rifle so I'll have to do some work  . After the first of the year I may get a little more enthusiastic about hanging onto a saw. But right now I just want to see a pack of wolves coming in to the call.


----------



## tramp bushler

Samlock said:


> Today's eyesore. Or perhaps a blight?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just as I was bragging about taking it a wee bit slower during the short day period - the jobs are piling up and I'll have more than I can possibly handle.
> 
> Me and my big mouth. Where's my headlight?



Did you set the one laying on the low side into it as a driver or did it have enough lean? Are those powerlines to the left in the pic?


----------



## Samlock

tramp bushler said:


> Did you set the one laying on the low side into it as a driver or did it have enough lean? Are those powerlines to the left in the pic?



To the left there is telephone wires. The rotten one was a back leaner and it needed two jacks before it went over. No driving fun there. The other on the low side - it had to go it onto the rotten one in a hurry. I took the picture standing on a road next to an elementary school and the bell was about to ring. The kids have a lot of questions, you know.



> Once I get some more home Firewood in, my goal is to do as much predator hunting as I can .. I have my eye on a new wolf rifle so I'll have to do some work . After the first of the year I may get a little more enthusiastic about hanging onto a saw. But right now I just want to see a pack of wolves coming in to the call.



A wolf caller, huh? That sounds a lot more sensible way to spend an arctic December than mine.


----------



## tramp bushler

I guess everyone has their fears, nightmares and paranoias . Mine is turning a tree or top loose if there is a chance there is a kid around.
My hats off to you! !!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## northmanlogging

Its not a tree but I sure would like to fall it, undisclosed location, near a highway and a river, in a county named after a river... The ologists deny this herds existance:msp_confused:


----------



## northmanlogging

tramp bushler said:


> I guess everyone has their fears, nightmares and paranoias . Mine is turning a tree or top loose if there is a chance there is a kid around.
> My hats off to you! !!!!!!!!!!!



Children man, 

They freak me out...

worse than zombies, zombies I can shoot...


----------



## madhatte

northmanlogging said:


> Its not a tree but I sure would like to fall it, undisclosed location, near a highway and a river, in a county named after a river... The ologists deny this herds existance:msp_confused:



I do believe I know where that is. I was unaware that those little beggars didn't "officially" exist. Wonder who the seedling protectors are for?


----------



## northmanlogging

It's a small herd is part of the problem, Only ever see 10-15 of em at a time, did manage to catch two bulls with their shorts down though... The unnamed river is just on the other side of that little meadow and the river has a tendency to change its direction and floods at the drop of a hat, so the state and counties have been spending a bunch of money reforesting abandoned farm fields and the like, my favorite one is next to I-5 near Arlington its got this giant freakin gazebo meant as an observation deck... never seen anybody out there


----------



## madhatte

Interesting. I was thinking further south... like as in east of Kelso. There's a spot that looks the same, antlers and all.


----------



## northmanlogging

this would be north and east of Everett, its too close to stupid, to give better directions, but the herd is rather well traveled for a herd that doesn't exist, the area they are in is mostly National forest and DNR land without a whole lot of access, just along a few major roads and such, otherwise your stuck to logging roads, I've kept an eye out for em ever since I was hunting in High school and spooked the herd, alas no elk tag, and they wouldn't have been legal to shoot there anyway, hence to close to stupid, poachers.


----------



## H 2 H

northmanlogging said:


> Its not a tree but I sure would like to fall it, undisclosed location, near a highway and a river, in a county named after a river... The ologists deny this herds existance:msp_confused:



I think I know were that is :msp_tongue:

I was wondering if you stopped and drank the wine across the highway and watched those trees that you wanted to fall :msp_ohmy:

They also like to swim to the other side of that river


----------



## Metals406

If they officially don't exist -- then can't you shoot them whenever you want? :msp_biggrin:


----------



## H 2 H

Metals406 said:


> If they officially don't exist -- then can't you shoot them whenever you want? :msp_biggrin:



There run by a tribe up there


----------



## Samlock

tramp bushler said:


> I guess everyone has their fears, nightmares and paranoias . Mine is turning a tree or top loose if there is a chance there is a kid around.
> My hats off to you! !!!!!!!!!!!



I think everyone shares that fear. Kids move fast. Worst scenario. That's why I'm using jacks a lot when I'm doing residential jobs. Even when it's not justified, but I'll be able to decide the exact moment I want the tree to go over.

I remember reporting of a such close call in this very thread. Was it April 2010? I'm too tired to check. Except the kid already had a driver's licence and she was driving. But a child of the house anyway.


----------



## Hddnis

Speaking of kids....Try taking down a bunch of decent sized DF's in an apartment complex. Any single branch I cut would smash right through the roofs or kill a person easily, the smallest tree was over 30" and the largest was 89" DBH, tallest one was 180' There were nights I couldn't fall asleep I was so worried about everything that could go wrong. Only thing I knew to do was next morning I'd gear up, double check all the safety measures we had in place, and start cutting. I still marvel that we didn't have a mishap. One time I looked down into the drop zone and there was a mother and her two little boys. Got on the radio to the boss and the ground guy, they were both talking to the mother and basically I said "WTH!!!???? At least one of you should have told me to wait for an all clear!" 

Also, no pressure dropping the last 40' or so in front of a crowd of several dozen gawkers.:msp_wink:

For all that though, the only part that made me really mad was the know-it-all little girl that started in on me being a "tree murderer" and "taking away all the air we breath" and "making it so we'll all die" and "trees feel pain too". Turns out her "teacher" told her all that. :bang:
Funny thing was that teacher never mentioned the foundations that were being destroyed, the roofs that were rotting under the canopy, or the fact that those trees were dying and if just one of them fell wrong it could kill several families in their sleep in a matter of seconds. The insurance company for the apartments had said that the trees went or coverage was dropped. The city agreed and gave a hazard exemption to the normal policy of not allowing trees to be taken down. 

I'd love to take down more trees like that, but I'd like them to be at the insection of nowhere and BFE.




Mr. HE


----------



## tramp bushler

Samlock said:


> I think everyone shares that fear. Kids move fast. Worst scenario. That's why I'm using jacks a lot when I'm doing residential jobs. Even when it's not justified, but I'll be able to decide the exact moment I want the tree to go over.
> 
> I remember reporting of a such close call in this very thread. Was it April 2010? I'm too tired to check. Except the kid already had a driver's licence and she was driving. But a child of the house anyway.



I've gotten to be a chicken in my old age. Anything I'm too stressed about gets klum and I hang a pulling line in it. If I have room to fall it, if not I take it down from the top. Oddly enough I'm a better Faller than I ever have been. But I'm pretty hard to get along with when the nerves get overused.


----------



## OlympicYJ

Hey Glen,

Meant to ask you but what kind of new fur rifle are you hoping to pick up? When I was up in Fairbanks I saw some guys on quads up on Ester Dome comin back outa the brush. Looked like they'd been predator huntin. I've heard they have yotes around Fairbanks, never saw any but did have a red fox cross the rd in front of me on campus at 600 AM one time. Also wondering what youve had come in to your call?

Wes


----------



## tramp bushler

Hey Wes; ya, I like the 6.5 Creedmoor in the Ruger m77 Target rifle. Ruger's are as tough as a good pro Husky or Stihl. They are plenty accurate and the 6.5 120gr TSX @ 2900fps shouldn't open up on a fox or lynx so they shouldn't blow out in the gut. But it's plenty big enough for caribou. And of course wolf. "! So far mostly coyote have come in up here. In S.E. I've called in plenty of brown bear. . Thats the ultimate... 
But I use a 458 for them.


----------



## northmanlogging

I like .308 Win myself probably a little more than is strictly healthy prefer the Remington 700, but I got three or four others in .308 as well... I don't hunt so much anymore since I spend as much on the pigs in the backyard and I can guarantee that meet in the freezer. Still hunt a bunch of paper though:smile2:


----------



## tramp bushler

I like the 308 , but it leaves a big exit hole on fox and coyote. I like little holes in the hide ..


----------



## Metals406

That's why a lot of guys use the .17 for coyotes. . . Small holes.

A buddy of mine has killed a lot of critters with a .257 Roberts as well.


----------



## Plankton

Some trees from yesterday, I wasn't used to cutting hardwoods so I pulled a lot of wood unfortunately, nice trees though.


----------



## OlympicYJ

tramp bushler said:


> Hey Wes; ya, I like the 6.5 Creedmoor in the Ruger m77 Target rifle. Ruger's are as tough as a good pro Husky or Stihl. They are plenty accurate and the 6.5 120gr TSX @ 2900fps shouldn't open up on a fox or lynx so they shouldn't blow out in the gut. But it's plenty big enough for caribou. And of course wolf. "! So far mostly coyote have come in up here. In S.E. I've called in plenty of brown bear. . Thats the ultimate...
> But I use a 458 for them.



I see what you're goin for and like the idea! I would love to go down to SE and call for blackies and brownies. I've shot a bear in the Olympics and got my buddy on one in the same spot two yrs later. Both shots were at 30yds; even though they were 150 pounders it was still a thrill cause of how close we were.



Metals406 said:


> That's why a lot of guys use the .17 for coyotes. . . Small holes.
> 
> A buddy of mine has killed a lot of critters with a .257 Roberts as well.



I've got a 250 savage on a mauser action my great uncle built. Set triggers and short so it's a "walking varmiter." Works really good for yotes and can take a deer on if need be, gotta use premium bullets though. Hoping to nail some yotes in this open wheat country this year.


----------



## floyd

Was there some wire to go with the rock wall?

Maqybe it is the angle of the images. Some stumps look like you went above the wire?


----------



## Plankton

Actually thankfully all the trees were wire free. The field never had a barbed wire fence apparently which was nice


----------



## kjp

*some time at camp*

pictures of a 80 foot beech at camp. Cool thing was it was 24 inches at the stump and 24 inches 60 feet up. Lots of firewood from one treeView attachment 260699
View attachment 260700
View attachment 260701


----------



## floyd

Thanks. The reason I asked is some stumps look high to me.

Images often fool me. 

Is the wall in better shape anywhere you could see? I expect at one the wall was the fence.


----------



## Slamm

I too was wondering why the stumps were so high, but then I saw that they were cut on the west coast.

Sam


----------



## floyd

Your screen is dyslexic. MA is on the east coast. 

There are a few forks there. Looks like a directional falling thing going on as well.

The wall made me think about it. Put a wire fence up because too difficult to maintain 200+ yr old walls.


----------



## hammerlogging

Slamm said:


> I too was wondering why the stumps were so high, but then I saw that they were cut on the west coast.
> 
> Sam



a nod and a smile. i'm a fan of and apply all sorts of technique but our #1 job is wood on the ground fast, safely, with maximum value and volume recovery. period. us fallers can rekon with the glory of keeping it nicely in lead, swing such and such so well, but the log buyer don't give a damn how well we swung it or how easy the loggers pulled that block. not even a little bit, unless of course, we also got 110% value and volume recovery! take it to the bank.

nice maple plankton, thanks for sharing, don't worry, always room for progress

open your faces a bit, or X2 or x3 your kerfs where you face cuts meet (like the kid taught me, a nod to the kid!) and chase the hinge a bit longer, if you can't keep up with it for whatever reason, got to get back to fundamentals, even if that means bore cutting. stumps look like the trees had some head lean.


----------



## Plankton

yup I still have a ton to learn especially in hardwoods. Every tree is a learning experience. 

A little clarification on the high stumps there only on "scrap" chordwood trees and the small amount of wood waste is a good trade off for the time saving of cutting them waist high. I can then move on to the high value trees which is the actual crop. You'll notice all the timber trees are cut low.


Yes almost all of them had head lean, I ended up using the coos bay cut on a couple for peace of mind. I finally noticed at the end of the day that an open face had alot less wood pull and started doing that. on the tree I'm leaning against I actually sniped the humbolt and it came down smooth with no pull.

It's kind of hard to tell in the photos but the butts of these trees were kicking up and flopping to the right so I was booking it out of there as fast as I could most of the time which is another reason for the pull, I probably could have stayed on the stumps longer though.

I noticed that the center of the hinge would tend to pull more then the rest, is that what people bore the center of the face out for?


----------



## hammerlogging

Plankton said:


> yup I still have a ton to learn especially in hardwoods. Every tree is a learning experience.
> 
> A little clarification on the high stumps there only on "scrap" chordwood trees and the small amount of wood waste is a good trade off for the time saving of cutting them waist high. I can then move on to the high value trees which is the actual crop. You'll notice all the timber trees are cut low.
> 
> nonsense, alwas cut them low as reasonable, i.e short of dulling your chain AND a high stump won't slow down logging.
> Yes almost all of them had head lean, I ended up using the coos bay cut on a couple for peace of mind. I finally noticed at the end of the day that an open face had alot less wood pull and started doing that. on the tree I'm leaning against I actually sniped the humbolt and it came down smooth with no pull.
> 
> If you notice a problem and know a solution, then apply it. immediately. practice on #### trees, not the crop.
> 
> It's kind of hard to tell in the photos but the butts of these trees were kicking up and flopping to the right so I was booking it out of there as fast as I could most of the time which is another reason for the pull, I probably could have stayed on the stumps longer though.
> 
> A more open face or boring would have given you more time to get away. still sounds like bs.
> 
> I noticed that the center of the hinge would tend to pull more then the rest, is that what people bore the center of the face out for?
> 
> among all the reasons.... see, you know when you've made mistakes, and you recognize how to improve, so listen to yourself. then you won't have to try and talk your way around some bs mistake and can just keep on doing your thing and nobody will have to hassle you becasue if you make a mistake, you fix it before its a habit. thats the problem with getting on here or god forbid cutting for someone that knows the game- they can see the bs and read right through it. so the bs makes it worse. argh. its ok.
> Like I saud, having recognized the problems is a huge step. knowing how to fix them is another huge step. taking these steps, or whatever steps it takes to cut logs properly, and safely, that'll solve the problem.
> 
> great time to be a faller, cool not cold, leaves off, nice pictures. looks like that here now too.



answers submitted


----------



## bitzer

Tramp- Thanks for the kind words a few weeks back! Although the guys on here who really know how to put wood on the ground would cut circles around me! I've been busting ass after a 2 week rainy period and ####ing with 3 different breakdowns this week. I'm enjoying weather in the 30s at night and 40s during the day. Godammit I wish it was Monday tomorrow! 

Hammer- well said posts on hardwood falling technique. Hope all is well with you. 

Plank- nipping out the heart does eliminate that pull, but esentially its up to the face. I put a little snipe on nearly everything sawtimber; humboldt or conventional. 5 second insurance in my opinion.


----------



## floyd

I could see most of the higher stumps were small stems. Only down side I see to high stumps on hardwood is the sprouts may end up with pistol butt. If a coppiced stand is next in the mgmt plan it could affect quality x yrs out.

Another problem with high stumps is falling a tree on them could ruin that stick.

Funny, this "forester" forum I used to look at cracked me up 1x. Talking about falling hwds. Basically asking how long one stays on the stump. I said long time. Steer it where you want it. They did not like that.

Then 1x I was talking about CCA, Container Corp America & their 31yr rotation in N FL using COMMOM forestry abbreviations. A "forester" from N FL didn't know who CCA was. I even got an invite back to that forum. I was nice enough to explain that I rarely do stoopid anymore so I would waste my time elsewhere, thank you.


----------



## Slamm

floyd said:


> Your screen is dyslexic. MA is on the east coast.
> 
> There are a few forks there. Looks like a directional falling thing going on as well.
> 
> The wall made me think about it. Put a wire fence up because too difficult to maintain 200+ yr old walls.



Actually, I thought the MA was a WA, LOL................ and the stumps looked like a West Coast thing.

While, I'm all for cutter speed, its for nothing if the skidder or forwarder operator has to screw around with either driving over or around high stumps, not to mention the serious damage that is caused when things go around with such needless stumps sitting up that high and machinery operating around it.

As do several of you, I cut and skid, and I have found that cutters (only, ones that don't carry about the skidder) get in a hurry making the footage that they forget that nobody gets paid until its out on the landing and it takes the skidder to get it there. when you cut a woods, and you leave nice low stumps you open up many more path opportunities for the skidder driver with each stump cut. When you high stump them, there is much less opportunities, because now you have the uncut trees and the tops and stumps, if you have low stumps its just uncut trees and tops .......... tops can be pushed out of the way, stumps, no.

Low stumps decrease cutter footage some what, but increase overall production with regards to typical getting the logs to the landing.

The above speaks nothing of how the land/job looks afterwards when you leave high stumps here and there, it just looks "Hackish", like the cutter didn't care about anyone but making his job easier.

My opinion,

Sam


----------



## northmanlogging

Plankton said:


> yup I still have a ton to learn especially in hardwoods. Every tree is a learning experience.
> 
> A little clarification on the high stumps there only on "scrap" chordwood trees and the small amount of wood waste is a good trade off for the time saving of cutting them waist high. I can then move on to the high value trees which is the actual crop. You'll notice all the timber trees are cut low.
> 
> 
> Yes almost all of them had head lean, I ended up using the coos bay cut on a couple for peace of mind. I finally noticed at the end of the day that an open face had alot less wood pull and started doing that. on the tree I'm leaning against I actually sniped the humbolt and it came down smooth with no pull.
> 
> It's kind of hard to tell in the photos but the butts of these trees were kicking up and flopping to the right so I was booking it out of there as fast as I could most of the time which is another reason for the pull, I probably could have stayed on the stumps longer though.
> 
> I noticed that the center of the hinge would tend to pull more then the rest, is that what people bore the center of the face out for?



I don't worry to much about the butt kicking up. use the humboldt and try not to park em to steeply up hill and it shouldn't be and issue, gets the ticker goin though don't it. If you have to use the standard face (still find it funny) make you're back cut a smidge, no more than an inch or two, high, and put some snipe in it. Also allot of the time having the butt buck like that is caused by what the stem is landing on, stumps, lumps, rock, etc, tend to have a teeter totter effect, when they don't smash the tree, try to miss them. Its all about situation awareness. biggest reason to boogie out of the way is falling debree hence all the dents in your tin hat, or if the bastard goes the wrong way... but that never happens right?


----------



## Plankton

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I'll be changing my technique alot next time I'm out in large hardwoods seems like.

It is a great time to be cutting, crisp air and no rain or snow or dust.


thanks


----------



## Rounder

View attachment 260894


Bought this for fun, but I'm thinking it might be handy to have tucked behind a gate in the bottom. Better than putting the wear on the truck.
Thinking a little sled/ trailer type deal might be the ticket, instead of having to wear my harness, pack and jam whatever else on the sled.
Might also really suck to ride out on if I get soaked.....we'll see.

Have a good, safe week - Sam


----------



## mdavlee

That might save a lot of walking Sam.


----------



## Rounder

mdavlee said:


> That might save a lot of walking Sam.



Yeah, it might make it a lot easier to sneak around delimbers and shovels. 

I get sick of wearing my corks out walking down the damn road!


----------



## Slamm

I always try to have an ATV on site for cutting, I can't stand when people use mine or their skidder as golf carts to transport cutters, saws and gas around. I start skidders to pull logs and that is it. ATV's or in this case snow machines were made for moving humans around, skidders for logs. I know people that start the skidder drive into the woods, cut 3 trees, skid 3 trees, cut 3 trees and skid 3 trees, therefore they are either idling a skidder all day for half A$$ production or they are starting and stopping the engine all day long and walking back and forth all day,................... weird stuff.

Sam


----------



## tramp bushler

Ya. I'm thinking about the 17 Hornady Hornet. For fox and lynx. Coyote have tougher hides. 
Plank, those pecker pole stumps gotta go. What's with the dented up tin lid? Not smart! !!! Get a new hat.
I can show you the tombstones of a bunch of guys I cut timber with that got killed by getting hit on the head while cutting timber. 
I don't know your pay structure, but a good job leads to more $$$ than slashing does. Your falling looks pretty good but low stumps are important .


----------



## tramp bushler

Sam, that's a good looking open air crew bus :msp_wink: sitting on the bars won't b too comfortable. .
Maybe if the bars are pointed the other way. I've shredded a couple snogo seats with sharp chins and sharp corks
.


----------



## northmanlogging

Every year the whole clan goes christmas tree hunting, one year it snowed a bunch real early so the usual spots had 4-5 feet of snow, so we took snowmobiles. On the way up we passed a late 60's bronco, late 60's scout, and a jeep with a v-8, all had huge tires and roll cages the usual redneck stuff. 4-5 hours later were on our way back its dark its snowing hard and all three rigs are stuck in the ditches each one about 100 yards from each other and the snow is over the hood of two of em.
Long story short we broke a rope or two but pulled the bronco out with a 700 polaris rmk, he's the only one with a winch and said adieu. We did take pictures but my folks got them.


----------



## Frank Savage

Hey Plankton, nice snaghunting! 
As to fibre pulling-don´t be afraid of boring some of the heartwood, leaving two hingestraps on sides. A well-grown hardwoods of such dimensions usualy have enought tensile and even yield strenght in pressure to be able to hold most of the tree´s weight just on 3/4" wide hingestrap. Without a shade of crushing the wood. And about 1/4" (or even narrower in some species) strap across the dia. of a 30" hardwood can frequently easily withstands ALL the weight of the tree in pull along the grain. (The strenght of the wood of hardwoods in pull along the grain is almost always 1,5-2,5 times the strenght in pressure along the grain, depending on tree species, soil condition, part of the year... Mainly on them.)

So when the tree goes over, the front part of the hingewood don´t crush under the pressure as it does in softwood, so as the tree goes over more, the tension applied on the back of the hinge rises rapidly and concentrates mainly in thin portion of wood just on the back of the hingestrap. And because the wood withstands soo much in pull, it breaks not almost "all in one" as in "typical" softwoods, but breaks gradualy in thin layers-which leads to consecutive fibre pulling just before the grain breaks.
So means to weaken the hinge to a level where the hinge´s crossection yield and tensile strenght are somehow less than possible pressure and pull loads from the mass of the tree are welcome. It´s not a GOL or sissiness, it´s just a little of applied basics of Material science. 
Maybe the first paragraph is too "scientific" for immediate orientation in what´s to be said, so for simplification:
In most hardwoods, the usual hinge, as can be easily chased all-day long, is too massive and capable of withstanding much higher forces, than those applicable by the tree´s own falling mass. Hence the fibrepulling comes from and making the hinge smaller (by boring the heart) prevents it.


----------



## Greystoke

Rounder said:


> Yeah, it might make it a lot easier to sneak around delimbers and shovels.
> 
> I get sick of wearing my corks out walking down the damn road!



That looks pretty sweet pard


----------



## Rounder

Greystoke said:


> That looks pretty sweet pard



Looks like winter is here for real tommorow. You'll have to swing by some weekend and rip around in the field. After a drop of scotch of course.


----------



## tramp bushler

I think the warmest it got today was 4 below. 22 below this morning. So I guess it been winter for aboutt a month now. Thats how long its been since it was above freezing. It's pretty great. Fur is pretty great. Truck runs a lot better at 20 below than it does above.


----------



## Greystoke

Rounder said:


> Looks like winter is here for real tommorow. You'll have to swing by some weekend and rip around in the field. After a drop of scotch of course.



But of course :msp_smile:


----------



## slowp

37 and foggy here this morning. Winter has arrived.


----------



## tramp bushler

-25 this morning. Hey Samlock ; what's your temp this morning? ?


----------



## OlympicYJ

32 here not that bad. Supposed to get snow starting yesterday and through this afternoon... but there isn't any yet so I'll believe itwhen I see it!


----------



## Hddnis

30 here and two inches of winter covering everything.



Mr. HE


----------



## Samlock

tramp bushler said:


> -25 this morning. Hey Samlock ; what's your temp this morning? ?



I don't know, Glen. Around 10F, I guess. I had the block heater on, but it got warmer during the day. I had a rubber boots and wet snow under the collar day.


----------



## tramp bushler

It warmed up and is now snowing. Yuk.
-4 this morning.


----------



## H 2 H

I live about 1/2 mile from salt water (as crow flys) and it was 30 this morning and now its 39 with blue skies looking to the east towards the foot hill the tops have a fresh blanket of the white stuff


----------



## OlympicYJ

32 this mornin with a lil left over snow on the ground. Started snowin again at noon.


----------



## slowp

Isn't anybody falling? Or are we sitting around with coffee cups and watching thermometers? I guess I'll have to go see if I can get some of the limb locked trees to actually hit the ground just so there'll be something to discuss other than temperatures. And that is getting desperate!:msp_biggrin:


----------



## redprospector

slowp said:


> Isn't anybody falling? Or are we sitting around with coffee cups and watching thermometers? I guess I'll have to go see if I can get some of the limb locked trees to actually hit the ground just so there'll be something to discuss other than temperatures. And that is getting desperate!:msp_biggrin:


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> Isn't anybody falling? Or are we sitting around with coffee cups and watching thermometers? I guess I'll have to go see if I can get some of the limb locked trees to actually hit the ground just so there'll be something to discuss other than temperatures. And that is getting desperate!:msp_biggrin:





Well?


----------



## 056 kid

I have a vid of a maple I cut, but I don't know how to post it...


----------



## TreeGuyHR

Couple shots of some large cottonwood clumps I took down that make my 084 look small. Each stump was around 7 by 5 ft. The saw has a 42 in. bar. I used my truck winch to assist getting the stumps over -- the larger one in two pieces.View attachment 261620
View attachment 261621
View attachment 261622
View attachment 261623


----------



## Rounder

Gologit said:


> Well?



No pics...Lone Ranger as usual. Have been on a nicer block. FS salvage, 3-4' / 3 log red fir. Next block is a piss fir poopy-hole...also crispy. 

Hope you all had a good safe week - Sam


----------



## forestryworks

TreeGuyHR said:


> Couple shots of some large cottonwood clumps I took down that make my 084 look small. Each stump was around 7 by 5 ft. The saw has a 42 in. bar. I used my truck winch to assist getting the stumps over -- the larger one in two pieces.View attachment 261620
> View attachment 261621
> View attachment 261622
> View attachment 261623



I bet you smell like a bucket of barf after cutting those stink sticks


----------



## TreeGuyHR

forestryworks said:


> I bet you smell like a bucket of barf after cutting those stink sticks



yeah, they did smell. 

I did notice I wasn't wearing my helmet -- oops. I attached a shot climbing the tree that is rigged in the pic above where I am. I took some weight off the back side and pulled it over. And no, I didn't put the limbs through the guy's shed--- it was like that when I got there! I swear!View attachment 261626


----------



## Rounder

Haywire said:


> You guys get enough snow down there to take a test lap on that new sled of yours?



No, dammit! I was kind of looking forward to that. 
Working right on top of Lolo Pass and only have about 3 inches of snow....Mostly just wind. The wind blew all of the snow away down here in the canyon.....Suppose I'll just fire it up tommorow and listen to it idle a bit while I grind chain..:bang:


----------



## tramp bushler

TreeGuyHR said:


> Couple shots of some large cottonwood clumps I took down that make my 084 look small. Each stump was around 7 by 5 ft. The saw has a 42 in. bar. I used my truck winch to assist getting the stumps over -- the larger one in two pieces.View attachment 261620
> View attachment 261621
> View attachment 261622
> View attachment 261623


 Nice Big cottonwood. Nice looking job. . I can not believe how people build buildings under trees that can't stay standing for as long as the building will


----------



## floyd

Does this count? I'm doing another lift with my pole pruner. Got about an hour in Fri after my day job. Last one in this area was done on a pre commercial thin in 91 with my saw. This stand is flat so trim job is even. Over the side is 60%. Few more limbs downhill on those.

Since 91 my grazers have changed from equine to bovine. It has altered my pruning. I leave more crown on anything under 4"dbh. Cows have a long coat. They rub on everything. They don't rub on seedlings or saplings with 70% crown.

This yr they took out 5"cherry trees about 35' tall. Then they ate the leaves. There was only 3 so it didn't kill them.


----------



## bitzer

From a couple weeks ago. All the leaves are gone now and its been 40s and damp during the day, 20s and 30s at night. 







This one was leanin WAY out there growin on a rock wall. Back cut over my head. Calks and rocks are no good. 





Had to swing this basswood out of the farm field. Yeah I pulled the #### out of it. Better than the clean up for me though. I was amazed that it was sound. Usually they're culverts when they get this big. 





View attachment 261647

View attachment 261648

View attachment 261649


----------



## bert0168

bitzer said:


> This one was leanin WAY out there growin on a rock wall. Back cut over my head. Calks and rocks are no good.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 261648



Thanks for all the pictures of your stumps you post. Learn a lot from seeing them.

I'm curious as to how this one fell. What are the mechanics of that cut?


----------



## bitzer

bert0168 said:


> Thanks for all the pictures of your stumps you post. Learn a lot from seeing them.
> 
> I'm curious as to how this one fell. What are the mechanics of that cut?



Thank you! It was leaning at about a 45 to the ground so there was only one way it could go. Rather than boring and having it sit down hard as I poked through the far side. I Coosed it. The majority of the wood left was pull wood except along the hinge. You can kind of tell where. I nipped out the heart to eliminate the pull there. Any compression wood you can take out of hard leaners helps.


----------



## tramp bushler

Your gonna need springboards if you keep that up. Ya get used to corks on rock
Very nice looking work as usual. !!!!!!


----------



## 056 kid

bitzer said:


> Thank you! It was leaning at about a 45 to the ground so there was only one way it could go. Rather than boring and having it sit down hard as I poked through the far side. I Coosed it. The majority of the wood left was pull wood except along the hinge. You can kind of tell where. I nipped out the heart to eliminate the pull there. Any compression wood you can take out of hard leaners helps.



Sometimes a face kerf until it closes and a back cut is the best for those nasty leaners that are gonna flop where they want nomatter what ya do. If your saws cuttin good you can just about eliminate pull and like you said with the com wood gone barber chair is unlikely. Although it can twist and chit like that but not likely.


----------



## Driver625

*Fubar*

My ugly stump of the day. Cut above the barbed wire. Had a big lean to it. Did I bore or put a Coos Bay to it? No, like a dope. Didn't chair but pulled fiber. I'm so ashamed. All the limbs are holding it up on the stump, pulled it off with my tractor. 















View attachment 261849


----------



## hammerlogging

being white oak didn't give you a break either


----------



## TreeGuyHR

Barbed wire? So? I cut a white oak that had a cattle fence and at least three nails --- only took three chains. It took one chain to cut a 16 penny nail -- the long way! 046 will keep cutting if you cut the nail the SHORT way... :msp_sneaky:

Technically a residential job, but I did eventually did fell the tree. The guy didn't want a 5 ft. stump -- and I learned to add more to the bid for old yard trees with a nail or two showing (and there was just a piece or two of wire-- couldn't tell there was an an entire fence in there!


----------



## Driver625

I wasn't going to cut through the wire for any reason, 28" loops are spendy. I don't care what kind of stump my wife wanted.:msp_biggrin: She said it looked menacing hanging out over the field where the kids play, so I'm going to buck it up, smash it into little pieces and burn it. That should teach it to look menacing to my better half.


----------



## tramp bushler

A mans gotta do what he's gotta do t keep peace at home.


----------



## Samlock

This is what winter looks like over here right now. 

Making stumps on the local golf course. I saw no players on green today, though. Knotty stuff standing by the routes.

What else? Yes, dig my new helmet. My last one was dated 2004, and I was noted. It was fine to me, but I had a new one stored.

+ I got a black eye today. A piece of dead limb thrown from the chain.

That's all.

[video=youtube;bC4CYFJoQ3g]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bC4CYFJoQ3g&feature=youtu.be[/video]


----------



## tramp bushler

Hey Sam, is the weather underground in your sign line accurate? ? It says +4C . It was -38C here this morning.


----------



## TreeGuyHR

Finally picking up a square-cut chain grinder (needs work -- has a burned out motor). If I can get it running, I can stop paying through the nose sharpening my square cut chain collection (around 35 chains). It's either a Silvey or another top make. I recently bought a lower end round file grinder for around $250.


----------



## tramp bushler

Tree guy, do you have a pic of it? If its a Silvey its an easy swap and Silvey makes motors. If its a Simington you've got your work cut out for ya ..


----------



## northmanlogging

Samlock said:


> This is what winter looks like over here right now.
> 
> Making stumps on the local golf course. I saw no players on green today, though. Knotty stuff standing by the routes.
> 
> What else? Yes, dig my new helmet. My last one was dated 2004, and I was noted. It was fine to me, but I had a new one stored.
> 
> + I got a black eye today. A piece of dead limb thrown from the chain.
> 
> That's all.



Man I really really want to log a golf course, really really badly. Just skalp off every tree and leave a big nasty mess of ruts with the skidder, branches and tops scattered on the fairway, set the landing up on the 18th hole or whatever. We got a real dandy one in Mary's Hel that's got a bunch of nice doug fir too... I drive by it most days...


----------



## Samlock

tramp bushler said:


> Hey Sam, is the weather underground in your sign line accurate? ? It says +4C . It was -38C here this morning.



Yes, the sticker should be in order. It's been two weeks like this. Snow is gone and lakes are open again. The Northern Atlantic is very active, as heard on the news. Here it means wet and mild winter weather.



northmanlogging said:


> Man I really really want to log a golf course, really really badly. Just skalp off every tree and leave a big nasty mess of ruts with the skidder, branches and tops scattered on the fairway, set the landing up on the 18th hole or whatever. We got a real dandy one in Mary's Hel that's got a bunch of nice doug fir too... I drive by it most days...



I know what you're talking about. That's just about the list of things I agreed NOT to do. No heavy machinery. We got just a tractor to get the timber to the landing. Which is happens to be very fancy. On asphalt ground... Got to take a picture of it some of these days. The timber is twisted and hairy because of fertilization and light. But it's ok. I'm paid by the hours.


----------



## madhatte

northmanlogging said:


> Man I really really want to log a golf course, really really badly.



I laid out a sale on a golf course a couple of years ago. Weirdest forestry work ever. They wanted 30% less shade on three different greens, but they wanted it to still look "forested" between holes. Was pretty tough calling which trees to mark, based on crown size/position etc. They were happy with the results, though, so there's that.


----------



## Samlock

madhatte said:


> I laid out a sale on a golf course a couple of years ago. Weirdest forestry work ever. They wanted 30% less shade on three different greens, but they wanted it to still look "forested" between holes. Was pretty tough calling which trees to mark, based on crown size/position etc. They were happy with the results, though, so there's that.



A much like the deal I'm in. Only the formulation is that the course manager says he can't grow both grass AND trees. The other premise is that the clients/players hate to see ANY changes on their course. And many of them are type of citizens who want someone sacked if their feelings are hurt...

I got more or less free hands to navigate.


----------



## bitzer

HahaHa! I just cut a golf course well at least the outskirts of it. Gotta go back when the ground is hard so I can run the fairways and get the juicy stuff in the middle. 

Back in the ####in' swamps again. Traded the wide open uplands for thicker than a bears ass flats. Everythings a trade-off I guess. Swimming in brush, literally. I'll get some pics up this week. Everything has a thorn on it. Some decent timber though. 

50s and sun this week here. Hell I had bees buzzin all around yesterday. Supposed to drop off hard tomorrow night. Hope all is well with everyone and happy ####ing thanksgiving!


----------



## tramp bushler

Ya. Happy Thanksgiving everyone. 
-37 again this morning. 28 under right mow.


----------



## Rounder

Hey Sam(lock), what kind of falling belt setup are you using?


----------



## OlympicYJ

Had a big fir snap off in this latest storm. My 36" 3 rivet on my 372 wouldn't go through all the way lol

Hope everyone has had a good Thanksgiving.
























View attachment 263622

View attachment 263623

View attachment 263624

View attachment 263625


----------



## tramp bushler

Olympic. That looks great. But where the heck is your hard hat. Even with the timber cutting aside. You ever had a chocker bell slide down and wrap you in the head just after your tin hat fell off reaching under a log for the nubbin. ??


----------



## Metals406

OlympicYJ said:


> Had a big fir snap off in this latest storm. My 36" 3 rivet on my 372 wouldn't go through all the way lol
> 
> Hope everyone has had a good Thanksgiving.



That's what I call presetting chokers!! 

Just give the fallers 200 chokers a day to set before they fall the trees. :jester:


----------



## floyd

Perhaps this shot will help those with learning disabilities regarding high stumps.


----------



## Samlock

Rounder said:


> Hey Sam(lock), what kind of falling belt setup are you using?



Sam, it's basically a cheapy carpenter's tool belt I modified a bit. A nail pouch, wedges go in there and an ax too head down. I wear a tong and a pulp hook hanging on the sides. They sell those flat pockets for them at the saw shops here. I'm cutting mostly for the forwarders, so I need to keep moving the sticks around. I don't know about the measuring tape, I had it forever. And a knife for bear protection you know...

The dandy golf course landing. You can't see a ####, but the illumination is like that this time of year.






I'm going to rest the case for awhile, though. Tomorrow I'll get on a plane with the family to Berlin, Germany. We'll be staying in Germany next two weeks.

Stay safe, everyone.


----------



## OlympicYJ

tramp bushler said:


> Olympic. That looks great. But where the heck is your hard hat. Even with the timber cutting aside. You ever had a chocker bell slide down and wrap you in the head just after your tin hat fell off reaching under a log for the nubbin. ??



Yeah I have and it sucks. It was back in Idaho about 400 miles away lol. Guess i shoulda put a disclaimer about not looking to me as a safety example lol

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Rounder

Thanks Sam. I noticed the tong pouches looked like the ones that husky sells. Just curious if you were using the husky belt as well. Saw them in the catalog at the saw shop and they look really nice.

Have a good trip pard - Sam


----------



## Metals406

Rounder said:


> Thanks Sam. I noticed the tong pouches looked like the ones that husky sells. Just curious if you were using the husky belt as well. Saw them in the catalog at the saw shop and they look really nice.
> 
> Have a good trip pard - Sam



Bob's Leather has been around a while, and has a good rep around here in the trades. . . About like Occidental Leather bags. I like Bob's stuff though, and the prices are good.

Yeah, it's not $19.95 and $1.99 S&H -- but it's also not Chicom junk.

They make real nice leather products that should last a guy many years with care.

I also like that a guy can have them make bags to your drawings or templates. So, you could make a set of fallers' bags/pouches out of cardboard, send them in -- and they'd make them. 

I've been wanting to do this for a while, I just have to sit down and figure out exactly what I want, and where I want it hanging off me at.

http://www.bobsleather.com/Bobs Leather Catalog.pdf


----------



## Gologit

Metals406 said:


> That's what I call presetting chokers!!
> 
> Just give the fallers 200 chokers a day to set before they fall the trees. :jester:



That is, without a doubt, the absolute WORST idea I've heard today. THE WORST!!!! Quit it. Now.

















:msp_biggrin:


----------



## 056 kid

Metals406 said:


> That's what I call presetting chokers!!
> 
> Just give the fallers 200 chokers a day to set before they fall the trees. :jester:


I think you'd find the chokers in a pile exactly where they where given to the fallers.



floyd said:


> Perhaps this shot will help those with learning disabilities regarding high stumps.



Perhaps if the stump had been backed up. Without that it has more of the opposite effect. Like,"i wonder if he hit something in the back?"


----------



## northmanlogging

one 20' choker is only about 25 lbs right so 200 of em should be right around 500 lbs, not a problem... Hel I carry in the dozer every day whats a few more pounds :msp_biggrin:


----------



## forestryworks

OlympicYJ said:


> Had a big fir snap off in this latest storm. My 36" 3 rivet on my 372 wouldn't go through all the way lol
> 
> Hope everyone has had a good Thanksgiving.



Looking almost like a Jerry Beranek photo in that last one.

Thanks for sharing.


----------



## Sport Faller

forestryworks said:


> Looking almost like a Jerry Beranek photo in that last one.
> 
> Thanks for sharing.



Damn Son, where you been?
h'aint seen you in an age


----------



## tramp bushler

Ile Just an up date. 44 below this morning in Glennallen
28 above in Valdez. 
In 115 highway miles there's 72 degrees temp difference.

So I'm not cutting today but on Saturday I have to go cut firewood .. not optional.


----------



## redprospector

Valdez sounds a lot better to me.

Andy


----------



## tramp bushler

Ya, a friend said it was 40 above in Ketchikan today. I've seen more than 100 degrees of temperature difference many times up here.

To be a True Alaskan I feel a guy should be just as useful in both places. But I'm tired of thedark and rain+ snow on the coast. BIG difference between 3' of snow and 30 feet. Of snow. If anyone wants to be a professional snow shoveler, Valdez Alaska is the place to do it that's for sure ...


----------



## slowp

I got my Happy Light out yesterday. It is on right now. The days are dark and short here. I don't know how I'd do farther north.


----------



## tramp bushler

44 below again this morning.


----------



## Gologit

This has been posted before but I just like watching this guy work.


[video=youtube;e2uVPp6mg74]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2uVPp6mg74[/video]


----------



## forestryworks

Gologit said:


> This has been posted before but I just like watching this guy work.



Always a good'n.

And that's a strong 044 he's got rumbling around.


----------



## bitzer

The grounds been holding out more or less. Hope everyone else is putting wood on the landing!

The outskirts of the golf course job. Pretty narrow corridors between the course and the roads.






Swampin! Lots of thorny #### in here.





The only good things about this job- its flat and there are tons of trails that offer some relief. 





One of the many things I've come to appreciate with my Franklin roof mount.





About 40 hours worth of wood minus about 4 cords of pulp scattered around the swamp yet. If the wood had any length to it there'd be several thousand more out there. I will not be sad when the skidder hits the highway after this one. 





View attachment 265176

View attachment 265177

View attachment 265178

View attachment 265179

View attachment 265180


----------



## forestryworks

bitzer said:


> Swampin! Lots of thorny #### in here.



JFC! Does anyone do prescribed burns up there? :bang:


----------



## Gologit

forestryworks said:


> JFC! Does anyone do prescribed burns up there? :bang:



And if not, why not?


----------



## tramp bushler

Bob; thanks for posting that vid. Ya, that guy is nice and smooth. I think that outfit is around Darrington, I think. 
Jamison, that's what2 of my 044s cut like. And he's running chisel ground chain. They really make a saw fun to run. 

Bitzer; looks great as usual. It looks like your in a tough show. You must really like your 390 . Seems all your falling pics since you got it have stared it. :msp_smile:

41 below this morning. I burned a half cord of wood last week in a 300 sq.ft. 3sided log cabin. The heat pad on the pickle barrel propane tank has been plugged in for a week.


----------



## slowp

Gologit said:


> And if not, why not?



The Washburn FS district was starting to do controlled burns despite the protests of the paper company. Paper manufacturers did not like to get any char in their chips. The paper industry bought a lot of timber sales. 

I don't know if that is still the case. I suspect more paper companies have gone out of business? 

By the way, the lighters of the burns were two young women who were also distance runners. They wore out the guys who were trying to keep up.


----------



## bitzer

forestryworks said:


> JFC! Does anyone do prescribed burns up there? :bang:



According to the local ancient farmer this swamp had never been cut. These private landowners either don't have the resources or the know how or even the why to. State and other public lands they will, but this state is full of people who do not understand what a well-managed forest means. Hell, when I say I'm a logger to someone they figure I clear-cut everything and when I'm in the right kind of mood I go along with it. Yep, clear-cut for strip mining, thats my game! This woods is the thickest I've ever swum in.


----------



## bitzer

tramp bushler said:


> Bob; thanks for posting that vid. Ya, that guy is nice and smooth. I think that outfit is around Darrington, I think.
> Jamison, that's what2 of my 044s cut like. And he's running chisel ground chain. They really make a saw fun to run.
> 
> Bitzer; looks great as usual. It looks like your in a tough show. You must really like your 390 . Seems all your falling pics since you got it have stared it. :msp_smile:
> 
> 41 below this morning. I burned a half cord of wood last week in a 300 sq.ft. 3sided log cabin. The heat pad on the pickle barrel propane tank has been plugged in for a week.



Thanks Tramp! Yes I do like that 390. Running full skip now on a 32" bar. I'm planning on making that my next saw too. How much light you gettin these days? Late sun up makes me lazy.


----------



## bitzer

slowp said:


> The Washburn FS district was starting to do controlled burns despite the protests of the paper company. Paper manufacturers did not like to get any char in their chips. The paper industry bought a lot of timber sales.
> 
> I don't know if that is still the case. I suspect more paper companies have gone out of business?
> 
> By the way, the lighters of the burns were two young women who were also distance runners. They wore out the guys who were trying to keep up.



The DNR does have quite a strangle-hold on this state. That may have more to do with it. The paper mills are doin fine. There have been some gatewood shut downs, but they were takin damn near everything that showed up last summer.


----------



## Rounder

I never have a camera when I need one...Waiting on a green truck to approve cooridors this morning (last minute block switcharoo), standing outside the car in a bit of a blizzard to properly acclimate and a big squirrel ran down the cut and dinked around in the road a bit. Too big. Walked up to where it went over the fill, and there sat a Pine Marten about ten feet away on the limbs of a fir at eye level, just like a man standing on a ladder. We had a staring contest for about 25 minutes.....Kind of makes a ####ed up day worthwhile. 

Hope you all are well - Sam


----------



## RandyMac

A Pine Martin! I saw one in the Sierras for about two minutes, beautiful animals.


----------



## slowp

Don't tell the people of the green pickups that you saw one. Nope, that was just a squirrel. Right?


----------



## Rounder

RandyMac said:


> A Pine Martin! I saw one in the Sierras for about two minutes, beautiful animals.




I could have sat there and watched the little bugger all day, really neat little predator......damn forester showed up and I had to go cut trees.


----------



## bitzer

I've seen fishers and martens around here near river bottoms. Just one of those animals that you know are there you just never get to see them. I have yet to see a bobcat or a lynx in the woods. 

Sam- Hows the weather out there? Can you send any hard cold blowing #### this way? ####### 60 degrees and rain today. Looks like I'll be cutting way ahead on this job.


----------



## Rounder

It's been kind of up and down, but it sounds like winter will be getting here for good by Thursday. Cutting dead-on snowline today the last tank. Snowing hard above, raining just below and complete #### coming down on me.


----------



## FSburt

Don't tell the people of the green pickups that you saw one.

Yup 700 acres take out of production right off the bat if the den site is found. Down here on the Sierra NF we are doing a study on the effects of vegetation treatments on Fisher with the logging just about finished up and then a couple of yrs to monitor and see how they come back into the area. Funny thing is this area was totally cutover in the 1920's like a lot of the West coast forests and they made it through that disturbance so what we are doing should not create any effects but well see what the researchers have to say as our logging future depends on the outcome.


----------



## Rounder

Best pard popped a pickle today, looks good with the star she put on top - Have a good safe week - Sam


----------



## Rounder

Pretty good, kind of surprised me for a bored out 600 tripple....


----------



## Steve NW WI

Rounder said:


> Pretty good, kind of surprised me for a bored out 600 tripple....



Polaris sold a ton of those 600 triples in this part of the country back in the day, but for anything but across the lake speed, give me a 600 twin and you'll see nothing but taillights through the tight twisty trails through farmers' woodlots we ride on out here.


----------



## Samlock

*Apocalypse now?*

This is what the moment of solstice looked like over here. Nothing special. It seems the D-day is not an excuse to stay in bed on the other side of the pond either. Stretch your legs and off you go.







Well, this is the judgement day for my facial hair, though. I hate it when it does that.


----------



## slowp

My dog and I are still alive. The woodstove took off, the Grapple Cat is on the porch complaining about his food.....no signs of the end. 

Happy Solstice. Maybe I'll pile some brush and burn it today.


----------



## Gologit

Well, we're still here. I guess I'll have to shave today after all.


----------



## floyd

must be a frost crack on that one log?


----------



## northmanlogging

Gologit said:


> Well, we're still here. I guess I'll have to shave today after all.



Can't remember the last time I shaved... cut a little bit of hair off a few weeks ago... does that count?


----------



## Samlock

floyd said:


> must be a frost crack on that one log?



Looking from distance it certainly looks like that. But it is a weird limb. Scotch pines never crack in cold.


----------



## tramp bushler

Samlock; your still in the banana belt. Our daytime high was 37 below. At the house it got up to-39. It's back down to close to 50 underneath right now. I'm gonna have to root around and find a falling picture so I can justify my existance on here.
I have been having fun Chronographing ammo in the cold to see how much velocity it looses when it sits outside and gets to the ambient temperature. I get rid of my face full of brush when it gets cold. I get real tired of the ice pulling hair out of my face everytime it freezes. Which is every time I spend a half hour outside.


----------



## Samlock

BRRRRR! Looking the weather maps it seems Alaska and East Siberia got the cold right now. Banana belt, yeah, suits me. I'm busy and when it gets below -30F I'm not cutting anymore if I had a choice.

Hang on, Glen. It sounds to me you got hands full of interesting things. The trees, they are not going anywhere.


----------



## tramp bushler

Ya, it's -55 right now.


----------



## floyd

Yup, you split an old branch.

Thanks.


----------



## Hddnis

tramp bushler said:


> Ya, it's -55 right now.





That'll freeze the nuts off a grasshopper.




Mr. HE


----------



## tramp bushler

53 under @ 9:30 this morning. Course the government controlled temp are as much warmer. It would be hard to get all the enslaveing laws past if they couldn't scare everyone with it being all hot. I don't think the polar ice caps will melt with these temps.


----------



## Samlock

Well, the extremely cold temp readings vary a lot depending on the specific circumstances of the measuring spot. My thermometer gives usually approx 5 C's warmer readings than the official. Anyway, either it is -40 or -50, one can say that's bloody cold. I watched a video somebody put on youtube in Siberia. A guy threw a pot of boiling water from 4-5 stairs balcony, and the water froze before hitting the ground.


----------



## Metals406

Y'all can have the arctic winter this year.

We have yet to break anything under 10° at night so far, and that's fine by me.

Hell, at 10°'s. . . I reckon Glen strips to near naked and get's his sun bathing chair out!


----------



## Hddnis

Yeah, pretty mild here. Lowest at the house last week was something like 19° and normally we've seen about 20 lower than that by this time.

Only trouble is all this hanging around in the mid 20's to mid 30's makes it hard to keep the house at an even heat. The woodstove will drive you right out of the house in this mild weather. I start a small fire in the morning, let it burn hot-n-quick, then another in the evening. Max inside temp hits 74° and it never drops below 68° So far this year I've only burned about 1/3 of a cord between the house, the cabin and the shop.




Mr. HE


----------



## Metals406

Hddnis said:


> Yeah, pretty mild here. Lowest at the house last week was something like 19° and normally we've seen about 20 lower than that by this time.
> 
> Only trouble is all this hanging around in the mid 20's to mid 30's makes it hard to keep the house at an even heat. The woodstove will drive you right out of the house in this mild weather. I start a small fire in the morning, let it burn hot-n-quick, then another in the evening. Max inside temp hits 74° and it never drops below 68° So far this year I've only burned about 1/3 of a cord between the house, the cabin and the shop.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. HE



No truer words there! Although, mamma likes it about as hot as Satan's taint in here -- so she doesn't mind.


----------



## Virginialogging

Poplar






Pine and Pop


----------



## Virginialogging

Felling a Poplar. My son and I work together, we're the extent of our crew.  He took some pics one day.







He's got a few inches of height on me.


----------



## tramp bushler

*your loggin now!*

Robert ; looks good. Are you horse loggin?


----------



## Virginialogging

tramp bushler said:


> Robert ; looks good. Are you horse loggin?



I'm afraid not. Did for 12 years but then my son went to work with me and we had to move more timber.
And the ground got steeper and rockier and the skids longer...you get the drift. I lost my old Tuck horse in March of 2009.
Nip is still in the pasture and acts like a young horse lots of days. 
I'm glad I got to make a living logging with horses for 10 years by myself and another couple with some help from my sons.
I've an article on my time line on FB, 2009. 
Now a days I do the falling and Jordan drives a timberjack.


----------



## northmanlogging

looked at a little danger tree job yesterday, may do it today or sometime soon... anyway steepest ground I've ever fell on, I'll try to get some pictures... might need a spring board


----------



## Virginialogging

northmanlogging said:


> looked at a little danger tree job yesterday, may do it today or sometime soon... anyway steepest ground I've ever fell on, I'll try to get some pictures... might need a spring board



we work the steep ground most all the time now it seems. Don't you fellows use that humbolt lead notch?
Makes it easier if your felling down the mountain. I particularly like really steep ground if the skid trail is at the bottom.
Pretty easy to get the tree to de-limb it's on self on the way down to the bottom.  But if your skidding it back up
to the top watch out for boulders. My son knocked one lose this fall and said I looked like Indiana Jones running 
down the mountain.  

Be safe.


----------



## H 2 H

northmanlogging said:


> looked at a little danger tree job yesterday, may do it today or sometime soon... anyway steepest ground I've ever fell on, I'll try to get some pictures... might need a spring board





Heck your in my area (North Snohomish County) if you need some pic's taking shot me a pm


----------



## northmanlogging

this jobs is right in the neighbor hood, so taking some pics is more a matter of remembering to walk home and grab the camera...

Going to have to skid the logs up in a the guys back yard... should be fun not smashing his drain field with the skidder...

its just a matter of scheduling, home owner needs to be there and he's home less then me...


----------



## northmanlogging

Virginialogging said:


> we work the steep ground most all the time now it seems. Don't you fellows use that humbolt lead notch?
> Makes it easier if your felling down the mountain. I particularly like really steep ground if the skid trail is at the bottom.
> Pretty easy to get the tree to de-limb it's on self on the way down to the bottom.  But if your skidding it back up
> to the top watch out for boulders. My son knocked one lose this fall and said I looked like Indiana Jones running
> down the mountain.
> 
> Be safe.



not to many boulders in these parts, be lucky to find rocks bigger than fist sized, almost all sand.
go a mile any other direction and its hard granite and shale as far as the eye can see, but our little patch is a bit of an anomaly.

Yes most of the PNW fallers/cutters use the Humboldt, Using a conventional face round here is a good way to get laughed off the mountain, Welcome to the forum...


----------



## Virginialogging

northmanlogging said:


> Yes most of the PNW fallers/cutters use the Humboldt, Using a conventional face round here is a good way to get laughed off the mountain, Welcome to the forum...




rarely is it used in these parts, I occasionally do but rarely myself. I don't think there is an advantage. Maybe has to do with the
swell butt of hardwoods or something, or just a regional thing? 

Thanks for the welcome!


----------



## northmanlogging

We gets lots of swell butts, for one thing. Plus falling on steep hills and laying em quarted up hill it helps prevent the whole tree from chasing you down the mountian (the stump acts as a chock) or if yer cutting in some thick bush and hang one up it will prevent kick back there too. You can also get the stem to sorta jump off the stump by using some other tricks in combination with the Humboldt, not so much with a standard face. An advantage to the standard is you get a lower stump, which means a cleaner looking unit, and happy skidder drivers, most of the work around here is tower/yarder logged so the logs and rigging are in the air for the most part anyway. My own Opinion is that the Humboldt is just more versatile and safer, plus the chunk (piece o pie bit) falls right out if you make the slope cut second...


----------



## Virginialogging

northmanlogging said:


> We gets lots of swell butts, for one thing. Plus falling on steep hills and laying em quarted up hill it helps prevent the whole tree from chasing you down the mountian (the stump acts as a chock) or if yer cutting in some thick bush and hang one up it will prevent kick back there too. You can also get the stem to sorta jump off the stump by using some other tricks in combination with the Humboldt, not so much with a standard face. An advantage to the standard is you get a lower stump, which means a cleaner looking unit, and happy skidder drivers, most of the work around here is tower/yarder logged so the logs and rigging are in the air for the most part anyway. My own Opinion is that the Humboldt is just more versatile and safer, plus the chunk (piece o pie bit) falls right out if you make the slope cut second...




Interesting and thanks. we got to have those lose stumps. I get tired of my son fussing about it. None of that rigging in the air round here, though I've seen a few places I'd like to try it. We generally push in skid trails and I guess the boundarys are not big enough except in rare instances to even consider air rigging. My father-in-law once told me that when he and his dad worked the swamps where I was raised they used a high rigging of some sort there and a steam donkey. But I've never seen a picture of how it was done back then. I guess the main thing round here is we're to stingy to cut a high stump unless absolutely positively with out question the only way.  Scottish blood I suppose. However, I don't think the humbolt works as well on Oaks or poplars. 

the ground where this pic was taken wasn't to steep, this is after she fell in the other pic,






and a couple more at the same site.






some nice pop 






this ground had some steep sections,threw this one down to the bottom.


----------



## northmanlogging

the Humboldt vs. Conventional debate is fought over about once a month on here... both sides are right depending on species, skid method, mills, whatever... but it seems to come down to an east coast west coast thing. Makes some interesting discussions though ( i.e. pass the popcorn and get the first aid kit handy)

I've been doing some small jobs with my homemade yarder (the gypo yarder mk II) it works ok on flat ground for clearing 1-5 acres, and horrible on thinning... you just need to get some lift, but skidders are faster, by far on flat land


----------



## slowp

northmanlogging said:


> looked at a little danger tree job yesterday, may do it today or sometime soon... anyway steepest ground I've ever fell on, I'll try to get some pictures... might need a spring board



A tutorial. What a nice place for a picanic! 

[video=youtube_share;V-SwpDKkHko]http://youtu.be/V-SwpDKkHko[/video]


----------



## paccity

randy will be along shortly.:smile2:


----------



## RandyMac

paccity said:


> randy will be along shortly.:smile2:



Only shortly because you are too tall.


----------



## paccity

slowp said:


> A tutorial. What a nice place for a picanic!
> 
> [video=youtube_share;V-SwpDKkHko]http://youtu.be/V-SwpDKkHko[/video]



hairy. but damn thats got to be 6' of fiber. not that i would have done better.:msp_wink:


----------



## RandyMac

stump is too tall :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## imagineero

paccity said:


> hairy. but damn thats got to be 6' of fiber. not that i would have done better.:msp_wink:



It looks like he's 10,000' off the floor, but when you look at the last bit where the stem hits the ground, you see he's only maybe 10' off the ground. I've never seen springboarding in person, and really don't know jack about it but I did wonder when I first saw this vid a ways back if it was kosher. The guys obviously a pro, but it looks pretty freaky. I also thought after seeing the stem lay out that he could of maybe taken the whole thing at the ground in less time.

Shaun


----------



## northmanlogging

taking it at the ground would have meant taking the big sucker on the left at the same time, not fun or easy... I do have to wonder about dropping it off the edge like that though... how much wood was lost to breakage? I imagine he had his reasons.

Seen a few of these crazy kanuks dumping BIG cedar on u-tube seems there is allways breakage though...


----------



## imagineero

northmanlogging said:


> taking it at the ground would have meant taking the big sucker on the left at the same time, not fun or easy...



Yeah, that's pretty much what I meant. Sure, there would have been time in it, but more time than cutting in those springboards and then getting out on then cutting the wedge? Would have added a little more to the log that way too. My comments are obviously only speculation since I've never worked on ground that needed springboards. But I'm also a climber. I figure I could have slapped some spikes on and had that thing sorted quickly (and safely!), but even as a climber, if I can I generally do take things out from the base. Even if it's a bit more cutting, it's a lot safer and more comfortable.

Shaun


----------



## slowp

I never see a forester to give them the stinkeye in the videos or on the "reality" shows. That would change things.  I'm thinking it is a helicopter unit?


----------



## madhatte

Quick estimate on the volume of that cedar looks to be north of 3000 bf; current WADOR stumpage values have that tree worth more than $3K whether it's all sawlogs or there's a pole in there near the top! Not bad for this day and age.


----------



## northmanlogging

madhatte said:


> Quick estimate on the volume of that cedar looks to be north of 3000 bf; current WADOR stumpage values have that tree worth more than $3K whether it's all sawlogs or there's a pole in there near the top! Not bad for this day and age.



Unless its broken... but a buck a bundle for kindling could make a bunch of money for some boy scouts out there...

If prices on cedar are back up a bit I might have some falling to get busy on... before it plummets again...


----------



## Rounder

Same old ####, different day. Did get some nice 3 log yellow pine that the cooridors skewered.

View attachment 270734

View attachment 270735

View attachment 270736

View attachment 270737


Did have a good laugh, got hung up and pitched a fit. That sort of day. Shut my saw off and across the way the hooker hollers at me. 
I calmly asked what the #### he wanted........He said, "At least you don't have to do this again till next year!" 

What a pecker head.

Happy New Year - Sam


----------



## forestryworks

Rounder said:


> Same old ####, different day. Did get some nice 3 log yellow pine that the cooridors skewered.
> Did have a good laugh, got hung up and pitched a fit. That sort of day. Shut my saw off and across the way the hooker hollers at me.
> I calmly asked what the #### he wanted........He said, "At least you don't have to do this again till next year!"
> 
> What a pecker head.
> 
> Happy New Year - Sam



Nice pics. 

When you get a half wrap? Did Forrest put a spell on you?


----------



## Rounder

forestryworks said:


> Nice pics.
> 
> When you get a half wrap? Did Forrest put a spell on you?



I put that saw together Saturday, shop didn't have a full-wrap, new or used. 
Kinda nice, didn't get hung up in the brush so much. Did have to remember not to flip it like normal.


----------



## slowp

Is tree 28 a corridor tree? The blue paint looks quite fresh.


----------



## Rounder

slowp said:


> Is tree 28 a corridor tree? The blue paint looks quite fresh.



We're a titch bottlenecked.....Side rod running cooridors, forester chasing him with a paint gun, and me waiting at the bottom for everybody to get the hell out of the way. Oh, and a couple yarders eating the block up.....good times. 

Paint's usually fresh enough to get smeared on me....


----------



## madhatte

Rounder said:


> Paint's usually fresh enough to get smeared on me....



Apologies there. I know it's not one of my sales, but that's a thing I always worry about. Pissing on somebody's parade two years from now is not on my priority list.


----------



## twochains

Around here it takes around a year for the paper work to be processed after the timber is marked...no paint smears on me! :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## madhatte

The paint we use is thick and oily enough to stick to bark in a hard rain. It takes awhile to dry, like up to a couple of years.


----------



## slowp

madhatte said:


> The paint we use is thick and oily enough to stick to bark in a hard rain. It takes awhile to dry, like up to a couple of years.



Sounds like you are using "dead baby" paint. You can google Forest Service Paint Study and learn how oil based paints might cause damage to future descendants. But then, when you read the ingredients of the replacement paint, not much has changed except it will wash right off the trees if they don't have a couple of dry days for the paint to dry. Let me see, for one particularly slow logger, I marked some corridors 3 times and after the last, told him he'd better get in and get it cut before the paint came off.

They've since come up with a more rain resistant paint, but we couldn't use it until we'd used up the old stuff, and there was a lot of old paint to chew through.

The Forest Service paint also has those secret ingredients in it to prevent dishonest folk from adding to the volume, or subtracting--I know of one case where some tree spiker types came in and marked more leave trees. 

I've walked and painted with many a logger, and it is amazing how many do not understand how well a modded Treecoder paint gun sprays and splatters. I usually gave them a couple of warnings, but then figured maybe they needed to really experience the splatter.


----------



## madhatte

slowp said:


> it is amazing how many do not understand how well a modded Treecoder paint gun sprays and splatters.



We use Nelson paint and guns. The paint is pretty grody and gets into everything -- sometimes the hinge on toolboxes are even a bit sticky -- and it stays tacky-ish on bark until about the time it starts to fade. As for splatter, here's all you need to know: silver nozzle is the smallest orifice. It uses less paint, but gets clogged up way easier. Bronze nozzle is a larger orifice. Throws paint a bit further, but goes through more. Black nozzle is the largest orifice, and my favorite. No resistance to trigger pull, and doesn't clog easily at all. Downside is that the spray fans out really quickly so you have to get right up on the tree. This makes for severe splatter. I'll come home looking like a smurf after a day marking with one of those nozzles up front. A good mod for the older Nelson guns is to grind off the lower finger hold on the handle in order to fit the longer 3-finger trigger from the plastic guns. They're working on a new version that takes all of this into account but last time I talked to them they hadn't got the castings quite right. Oh, and the weird adapter will be going away. Wonder why that thing is on there? Turns out the Nel-Spot paint guns were originally intended to be used with light lube oil rather than paint. The adapter is there because the paint used a different can than the oil. Hot rebuild tip: when replacing the leather cups, soak 'em in softsoap for a few minutes to get them to compress properly in the bore of the pick-up body. I've used oil and grease for this before but teh standard gub'mint issue softsoap seems to work teh best.


----------



## slowp

The Treecoder gun is designed to use some kind of ink. The mod you must make to adapt it to paint, is to simply destroy the screen in the bottom. Then, they will chew through ancient paint. 

It has fewer parts than a Nelson so my non-mechanical brain could easily tear them apart, with the help of a yarder engineer's hands as a vise and replace parts in the field if needed. 

I know they are plastic, and more fragile, but I prefer them to the Nelsons for their simplicity and power. 

Hmmm. Nelson's as an oil sprayer. That must be why for long term storage, we put them in cans of oil.


----------



## Gologit

Krylon. Medium blue. Ssshhhhh.


----------



## madhatte

slowp said:


> Hmmm. Nelson's as an oil sprayer. That must be why for long term storage, we put them in cans of oil.



I never woulda guessed that one, either. I had the good dumb luck to find one of their senior engineer types when I called about parts once, and she was chock full of cool stories about how those things work (and don't work!) and how they got that way. I order direct from the manufacturer now.


----------



## tramp bushler

northmanlogging said:


> taking it at the ground would have meant taking the big sucker on the left at the same time, not fun or easy... I do have to wonder about dropping it off the edge like that though... how much wood was lost to breakage? I imagine he had his reasons.
> 
> Seen a few of these crazy kanuks dumping BIG cedar on u-tube seems there is allways breakage though...



Anytime you fall big red cedar on steep ground there is always breakage. They are pretty fragile. I watched the vid. He didn't do too bad. At least he showed putting in the face.


----------



## tramp bushler

When your boarding up it's real nice to use your buckin saw for swampin out and making/ putting in the boards. Then use a true falling saw for getting them off the stump. A 4' bar or longer makes getting the face out a lot easier and faster. And a longer bar tends to be more accurate for hitting your lay. High stumping works fine if your cutting for grade. Leave the long butt hooked to the ground.


----------



## Virginialogging

*here's a way to handle white oaks*

[video=youtube;X1eyjlrJKd0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1eyjlrJKd0&feature=youtu.be[/video]not that big but still a veneer grade, don't want any corks pulled on these.
Leaners throw in a whole new approach since the saw can't stay with a leaner
fast enough to stop splitting it or barber chair at worst.

Lead notch, cut heart out but leave two ears on side. Plunge cut in from sides and 
leave a back strap or trigger, the cut the trigger and away she goes.

Felling a white oak - YouTube


----------



## bitzer

Virginialogging said:


> [video=youtube;X1eyjlrJKd0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1eyjlrJKd0&feature=youtu.be[/video]not that big but still a veneer grade, don't want any corks pulled on these.
> Leaners throw in a whole new approach since the saw can't stay with a leaner
> fast enough to stop splitting it or barber chair at worst.
> 
> Lead notch, cut heart out but leave two ears on side. Plunge cut in from sides and
> leave a back strap or trigger, the cut the trigger and away she goes.
> 
> Felling a white oak - YouTube



Nice East coast style man! If your chain is performing you can face, snipe, heart nip and backcut those. Theres time and little to no pull when you stay with it. Obviously not seeing the tree in person of course. At least thats what I would have done. The last time I bored a tree was mid-november. It was a white oak that had a lot of crown weight and the wind was blowin like a sunofa##### to the lead. That was abt 150mbf ago. Use that long bar man! 


#### I gotta get back on here more! Seems everyones doin well with the cold! Winter might stay this year for me!


----------



## bitzer

A little bit of what I've been up too. Guess you can only post 1 video at a time. Sorry for the #### audio and visual. Cell phone sucks. I may have to get something decent out for the trees I'm guna jack. 

[video=youtube;jqUleZjrbvA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqUleZjrbvA[/video]


----------



## bitzer

[video=youtube;a-sRn29Z7Eo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-sRn29Z7Eo[/video]


----------



## bitzer

[video=youtube;4vlJqwPq6-4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vlJqwPq6-4[/video]


----------



## bitzer

The county brushed it out for me first (gets cut out early on). Damn nice of em. Man are they guna love me come clean up time!

[video=youtube;vtREr7DUCY0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtREr7DUCY0[/video]


----------



## bitzer

[video=youtube;mhNFPWPe5mY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhNFPWPe5mY[/video]

I'm sure not a damn one of these videos will work. Damn computers. Hopefully wrappin the job up this week. Workin on government land sure is a treat! no restrictions at all!


----------



## bitzer

Test run on the 30-ton. She lifted like a champ.






This one works pretty well in this size timber. 





Minimizing impact on the mounds. The two red oaks are directly on them. A professor of Archeology is on site at all times watching and documenting. Apparently it is a state law when working around indian burial mounds. He is a decent guy though and likes saws. He took a #### ton of pictures and video of me working to make a database to show the state.











View attachment 273971

View attachment 273972

View attachment 273973

View attachment 273974


----------



## tramp bushler

Hey Bitzer ; Were gonna have t start calling u Jacks R Us. 

If you need to Jack any big soft / softer timber you will prolly w
ant a bigger jacking plate. 

Few things worse than having the ram drive up into the tree instead of the tree lifting. 

Looks like your laying them out real nice.


----------



## Virginialogging

nice pics Bitzer. Just where are these mounds you speak of? The closest to me are Town Creek in NC.


----------



## bitzer

tramp bushler said:


> Hey Bitzer ; Were gonna have t start calling u Jacks R Us.
> 
> If you need to Jack any big soft / softer timber you will prolly w
> ant a bigger jacking plate.
> 
> Few things worse than having the ram drive up into the tree instead of the tree lifting.
> 
> Looks like your laying them out real nice.



Thanks! Yeah I don't normally have to jack anything and christ I try not to wedge anything either, but this job was non-stop lifting. In the pic with the two red oaks laid out, you can see a full jack seat on a tall basswood stump. My ####### wrists hurt so bad for the first few weeks from pointlessly beatin stuff over I had to make up two jacks. I've got huge slash piles in concentrated places because it was the only place I could put em. Everything has to stay off of the mounds. 

I've got a big ##### of a red oak and a big maple I should be jacking tomorrow if the wind allows. The top plate of the bigger jack is 6" x 6" about the same size as the base directly under it. How big is the top plate on most tree jacks? I've only ever seen pictures.


----------



## bitzer

Virginialogging said:


> nice pics Bitzer. Just where are these mounds you speak of? The closest to me are Town Creek in NC.



Thanks! Eastern WI about 45 min north of Milwaukee.


----------



## tramp bushler

Yà 6x6 is good I didn't realize it was that big. Sizes get distorted on my phones screen. I had one that was about 8" sq. Had a ring of pipe about 3/8" tall welded in the center and a handle welded on to it. It wasn't attached to the Jack. It fit into my pack pretty good. Had to remember when a tree took off, o grab the plate as sometimes it would get squashed into the tree enough to go for a ride and when the tree hit the ground it could disappeared in a hole somewhere.


----------



## northmanlogging

I've been holding out for a silvey... but if I were to make one with an old bottle jack whats a good tonnage to go with? Guess you gotta balance out between capacity, size, and weight...


----------



## tramp bushler

It depends on how big ur timber is. I like the stubby jacks . I be jacked quite a bit of timber with 20 ton stubbys.


----------



## northmanlogging

its rare for me to run into anything bigger than 4", but it happens now and a again... the biggest has been a 5" spruce with twin tops and a gigantic spread of limbs (stupid yard trees...)


----------



## RandyMac

northmanlogging said:


> its rare for me to run into anything bigger than 4", but it happens now and a again... the biggest has been a 5" spruce with twin tops and a gigantic spread of limbs (stupid yard trees...)



those 5 inchers can be trouble, got enough saw?


----------



## Metals406

The big twin Silvey jacks are like 128 ton (256,000 pounds).

Cody T. has said he's redlined jacks on a big tree with a breeze. A guy could figure out the geometry and calculate loads put on jacks, but it would have to be done for every tree. 

The biggest danger with bottle jacks is their lack of a gauge. You can't see your pressures -- resistance on the jack handle is an okay indicator of being close to max load, but not for quick loads from shifting or wind.

I imagine a guy could drill and tap a jack for a gauge if it was in the right spot. It would be better, but still not purpose built for tree work.

A guy should always back-up your jacks with wedges just in case. I've seen guys get relaxed with jacking, and if the jack were to let go, the tree would set back and bad stuff could ensue.

If I was jacking trees with a bottle jack, I wouldn't go with anything under 30 ton -- preferably something in the 50 ton range.


----------



## tramp bushler

Lot of things can go wrong jacking timber. A lot of guys just want to pump on the handle and forget about the wedges. 
The way I was taught and the way I always used a Jack was to make wedging easier/ doable. 
Yes it was a bit slower and a lot harder. But it worked. 
Something that has a lot to do with the size Jack needed is, how tall is the timber your falling. 

A Sitka Spruce that is 6' on the stump but only 160' tall will probably be a lot easier to lift than a Doug Fir that's 5' on the stump and 300' tall. 

Also I prefer more jacks to bigger jacks. I've split the back off a couple trees lifting them.


----------



## RandyMac

I watched a stubborn oaf lift a 48" very tall DF straight up off the stump, blown jacks and a bent bar were the results, it didn't go well for the tree either, a load of chunks was left.


----------



## northmanlogging

RandyMac said:


> those 5 inchers can be trouble, got enough saw?



Dang I should learn how to type or start building a replica stone henge... that was meant to be feet by the way...


----------



## tramp bushler

Not being a know it all. But just from experience, If q tree can get away from me, I. Rig it and pull it over. If it might sail away side hill into something I don't want destroyed


----------



## tramp bushler

Sorry, I got sidetracked by a friend that needs a wood sled for his snogo.

I hang pandelum lines in trees that will drift / sail down sidehill. 
If they are out in a unit I let them fly, but if something like a powerhouse is underneath me I rig the snot out of them.


----------



## bitzer

When you get up past a double stack of wedges you need to pop a chunk of wood in or something. Defintely don't be in a hurrry jacking. Its all about reading the tree and the jack. My trees weigh a lot for their height. A lot more crown to consider over a conifer I would imagine. Its kind of a grunt it over situation. The taller the wood the greater the leverage though. I could see things going wrong quickly in tall softwood. The other thing is hinge placement and how much to keep. You don't want to put too much pressure on the hinge and you should keep all the hinge you can get away with. In the pic with the 30ton I put the hinge a lot farther forward than I normally would. Usually my face depths are more than a third to half the diameter. That one was maybe a quarter. 

The thing about the bigger bottle jacks is they almost double in weight when you double the lifting power. That 30 ton stubby of mine is 50-60lbs. A 50 ton by the same company was somewhere around 80-90lbs. My jack is sitting under a stump right now. Its a ##### to pack out with the rest of my gear so it camps out there.


----------



## GASoline71

northmanlogging said:


> Dang I should learn how to type *or start building a replica stone henge*... that was meant to be feet by the way...



Awseome Spinal Tap reference! 

Gary


----------



## bitzer

northmanlogging said:


> I've been holding out for a silvey... but if I were to make one with an old bottle jack whats a good tonnage to go with? Guess you gotta balance out between capacity, size, and weight...



I would buy a new one if you were to make one. At least you'd have a starting point then. It was only ever used on trees kind of thing. The other thing is lifting height. You want them to lift at least 4 inches. I think that 30 ton lifts up around 5". A double stack of wedges is 2.75"- 3" at best. Some trees don't really need that much lift to get them over it just makes getting em started a lot easier with a jack.


----------



## tramp bushler

Yup, , it saves ALOT of beating. And on plenty of trees it makes it so you can actually dire tionally fall them.


----------



## Samlock

Glen, is there any sort of wedges would hold in the deep frozen wood? I do a lot jacking in winter because the steely wood keeps spitting the wedges out if there's any pressure on. I don't mind jacking, but I mind dragging the thing around in the snow.


----------



## bitzer

Sam- A little sawdust in the kerf helps keep the wedges from popping out. Otherwise Oregon and some other wedges come with teeth, although they don't drive real straight and _really_ don't drive straight when stacking. One tooth grabs and pulls one side in etc. Just plain old textured wedges work well, but you are usually best off with a really fine taper wedge to open er up and then pound in some fatties. K&H 10" is pretty fine, Double taper 12" wide-bill, Stihl makes a real fine taper 8" and 10" if I remember correctly. 



The mounds are all pretty close together at the back part of this job. 






Keepin the kerf open of my dutch so I could keep cutting. Roots are awesome when you have them. 





View attachment 274429

View attachment 274430


----------



## Samlock

Bitz, I never thought that saw dust thing for more traction.

I've got both Stihl and Oregon wedges, with nails and without, fine and fat. I don't know if it's just me, but the plastic feels like it gets harder in the cold than it used to. I've always had problems with softwoods below zero fahrenheit degrees. The wood turns glass. I've managed somehow this far, but now it seems like the kerf is literally throwing the wedges out.

It came to me I'm going to give a metal splitting wedge a try. It may well eat few chains, but at least it shouldn't sink into the frozen wood.


----------



## RandyMac

bitzer said:


> Sam- A little sawdust in the kerf helps keep the wedges from popping out. Otherwise Oregon and some other wedges come with teeth, although they don't drive real straight and _really_ don't drive straight when stacking. One tooth grabs and pulls one side in etc. Just plain old textured wedges work well, but you are usually best off with a really fine taper wedge to open er up and then pound in some fatties. K&H 10" is pretty fine, Double taper 12" wide-bill, Stihl makes a real fine taper 8" and 10" if I remember correctly.
> 
> 
> 
> The mounds are all pretty close together at the back part of this job.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keepin the kerf open of my dutch so I could keep cutting. Roots are awesome when you have them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 274429
> 
> View attachment 274430



I'll bet that sounded good.


----------



## mile9socounty

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/ijMOx-J2vG4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Throwing myself to the wolves.


----------



## RandyMac

fiber puller


----------



## mile9socounty

RandyMac said:


> fiber puller



Gotta start somewhere Randy. :msp_razz:


----------



## RandyMac

mile9socounty said:


> Gotta start somewhere Randy. :msp_razz:



So true, it is not like I never pulled fibers.


----------



## mile9socounty

Thank you again Randy. If yall got some input. You know, Pros and Cons. I have skin thick enough to take it. Just not enough beer.


----------



## RandyMac

You need to tip your hat back a bit. :msp_biggrin:


----------



## mile9socounty

I'll have to remember that for the next time I go cutting.


----------



## Gologit

RandyMac said:


> So true, it is not like I never pulled fibers.



Hey now...it's not fibre pull unless there's so much left on the stump that you have to face it and back it up to trim it off. :msp_biggrin:


mile9socounty....you did fine. The only thing that gave me a little pause (you didn't think you were getting away scott free did you?) was putting your axe into the tree. I now it's handy to grab from there but they can vibrate out and fall on the saw. Or your head. Doesn't happen often but it happens. And if you forget the ax is there until it's too late and the tree is going over you can rest assured that tree will turn and bury or break that ax. Ask me how I know. :msp_rolleyes:

And, after watching the video again, I think maybe you stayed at the stump, sawing up, just a little too long...but that's a judgement call and I'm not bagging on you for it.


----------



## mile9socounty

You are very correct there Gologit. Thank you for the tip about my axe. No, I would not want that thing dropping on my B&C. Its already a PITA hand filling a full comp chain anyways. Plus I don't need anymore holes in my head. I already have too many as it is.


----------



## bitzer

A sweet sound to the ears. Nothing can capture that groan and boom that the earth and wood make when they collide. Unless you've been there you'll never know that feeling. Too bad I'll never know the feeling of an OG redwood touchin down. Ehh. I was born a little too late. 

I've got a couple of monster oaks yet to sling this week. They make for some good thumpin. 



RandyMac said:


> I'll bet that sounded good.


----------



## bitzer

Samlock said:


> Bitz, I never thought that saw dust thing for more traction.
> 
> I've got both Stihl and Oregon wedges, with nails and without, fine and fat. I don't know if it's just me, but the plastic feels like it gets harder in the cold than it used to. I've always had problems with softwoods below zero fahrenheit degrees. The wood turns glass. I've managed somehow this far, but now it seems like the kerf is literally throwing the wedges out.
> 
> It came to me I'm going to give a metal splitting wedge a try. It may well eat few chains, but at least it shouldn't sink into the frozen wood.



Don't do the metal wedge thing! That'll only give you grief! What size timber? Try backing up you trees first and get the wedges set good and tight before you face em. That may help. The little bit of rocking back and forth in frozen wood can spit them out if you face them first in smaller dbh timber. Otherwise time for something new.


----------



## Gologit

bitzer said:


> Too bad I'll never know the feeling of an OG redwood touchin down.



They made a lot of noise sometimes. Equally impressive was the total _silence_ after one went over. The saw was off, the birds were scared quiet, it was almost eerie. Sometimes you could hear your heart beating.


----------



## madhatte

RandyMac said:


> fiber puller



I can't believe you said that. 




No, really.



Gologit said:


> The only thing that gave me a little pause (you didn't think you were getting away scott free did you?) was putting your axe into the tree. I now it's handy to grab from there but they can vibrate out and fall on the saw. Or your head. Doesn't happen often but it happens. And if you forget the ax is there until it's too late and the tree is going over you can rest assured that tree will turn and bury or break that ax. Ask me how I



Sound advice, there. I've done the same a time or two for the same reason... I'll take that bit of wisdom and pass it on.


----------



## RandyMac

grab it with your crab hand Nate.


----------



## madhatte

I got a normal hand too, y'know.


----------



## tramp bushler

Samlock said:


> Glen, is there any sort of wedges would hold in the deep frozen wood? I do a lot jacking in winter because the steely wood keeps spitting the wedges out if there's any pressure on. I don't mind jacking, but I mind dragging the thing around in the snow.



Yes, there are 2 types. The good old fashion aluminum wedge ( called Maggy) ie, magnesium. . I've actually had a few that were made from magnesium. Absolutely Must wear eye protection when beating them.

And the plastic (Toothed) wedges. You can get them in up to 12" . They drive a little harder and you want to put the teeth on the stump side. Bailey's has them, maybe Madsen's. You could prolly just Google Plastic Toothed Felling Wedges. For your side of the Atlantic.


----------



## tramp bushler

mile9socounty said:


> <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/ijMOx-J2vG4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
> 
> Throwing myself to the wolves.



Looks good, saw sounds real good too! :msp_w00t:


----------



## Samlock

tramp bushler said:


> Yes, there are 2 types. The good old fashion aluminum wedge ( called Maggy) ie, magnesium. . I've actually had a few that were made from magnesium. Absolutely Must wear eye protection when beating them.
> 
> And the plastic (Toothed) wedges. You can get them in up to 12" . They drive a little harder and you want to put the teeth on the stump side. Bailey's has them, maybe Madsen's. You could prolly just Google Plastic Toothed Felling Wedges. For your side of the Atlantic.



The toothed plastic wedges I have a couple in my pouch and they have done fairly good before. Thing is the plastic seems to me has changed harder and more slippery somehow. They even sound different in cold. Like icicles when you knock them. I have no old wedges left to test my intuition, though.

Hey, but the Husky dealer has some Maggies on the shelf. I remember I had a couple of them years back, but they ate my chains. I never thought they could work in cold. But thinking it over, yeah.

Cheers, Glen.


----------



## bitzer

Sam- the other thing you can do is make your own texturing on the wedges that may get them to stick better. Run a dremel over them or something. Usually a wedge pings when its too tight to pound. Hope you have better luck. 

Mile9- Looks pretty good to me. The wind throws in a little extra fun. I stay at the stump too long sometimes myself, just trying to get that little extra. Its nice when you can just dog in your backcuts. Lately I've been backbarring so many either in the face or back to keep my stumps low. Its a lot easier to pay attention to the top when you're dogged in.


----------



## Samlock

bitzer said:


> Sam- the other thing you can do is make your own texturing on the wedges that may get them to stick better. Run a dremel over them or something. Usually a wedge pings when its too tight to pound. Hope you have better luck.



That's an idea worth giving a try too, Bitz.

Another thing about the wedges this winter... I just realized they won't turn into mushrooms like they did. OK, it may be the old age. But they crumble... You can't even get them tight, but they keep popping off the kerf while tapping. That's when the wood is frozen good.


----------



## mile9socounty

tramp bushler said:


> Looks good, saw sounds real good too! :msp_w00t:



Thank you sir. It does pretty good for just a stock saw. 2002 Husqvarna 372XP with an 8 pin. 32" Full Comp.



bitzer said:


> Mile9- Looks pretty good to me. The wind throws in a little extra fun. I stay at the stump too long sometimes myself, just trying to get that little extra. Its nice when you can just dog in your backcuts. Lately I've been backbarring so many either in the face or back to keep my stumps low. Its a lot easier to pay attention to the top when you're dogged in.



Every day I was out there cutting on that piece. 11am would roll around and the wind would start to pick up. By the time it was noon, I damn near had to put a wedge into every tree to keep it from setting back. Better be safe than sorry. It doesnt take very long to pull one out of my back pocket. And use my axe that I left stuck in the tree :hmm3grin2orange: to snug them in. 

I guess that's why the called that drainage Windy Creek.

Sam, have you got the package yet good sir?


----------



## Samlock

mile9socounty said:


> Sam, have you got the package yet good sir?



No, still waiting. It seems to take a bit longer from Oregon. Pony Express?


----------



## mile9socounty

Federal Express. Well that chaps me pretty good there. Maybe all that cold weather and snow you have Sam scared it into hiding?


----------



## Samlock

mile9socounty said:


> Federal Express. Well that chaps me pretty good there. Maybe all that cold weather and snow you have Sam scared it into hiding?



That must be it. Let's wait some more and hope for the best.


----------



## tramp bushler

Hey Sam ; yes plastic wedges get brittle in the cold. Last winter I had to wedge over a dead spruce that wads 16" or so on the butt. Sounds pretty easy, but when the tree hit the ground where I wanted it to. I went to pick up my wedge and found it was in several pieces on the stump. It was about 38 below . 
I put in the back cut and tighten it up before putting in any face cuts a lot on smaller trees. Another thing I do is use full face Siswheel because the sap wood is so brittle. It helps the holding wood flex a little better. .


----------



## tramp bushler

How cold has it been there this winter. ? If you put in the backcut first and tighten up a Maggy good then put in the face you won't saw into your wedges much.


----------



## Samlock

tramp bushler said:


> How cold has it been there this winter. ? If you put in the backcut first and tighten up a Maggy good then put in the face you won't saw into your wedges much.



Not cold at all. Unstable. The temperature keeps bouncing between -20 and 20 degrees.

It was just about a year ago I found out about the back cut first thing. I think it was 2 dogs who told me about that. Thanks Bill. Around here people are told to use quarter cut. It works sometimes better, sometimes not. 

How is the winter weather in Alaska, Glen?


----------



## tramp bushler

We had about 6 weeks of cold with about a 7 mornings of 50 below and many days it never came close to warming up to 30 below. Then the January thaw showed up and it got up to 40 above. Yuk. It's been pretty mild since 0 to the teens. We got about 8" of snow 2 days ago. So there is about a foot in the woods. I'be regressed to snogo loggin my firewood. Had to fix the old 340 Yamaha's steering shaft that I twisted off last winter.


----------



## tramp bushler

The problem I've found with the toothed wedges in frozen wood is getting the wedge in far enough for the teeth to get a bight. I use the tip of my saw to open up an inch or 2 deep where the wedge will go in.


----------



## bitzer

I've had some fresh Alaskan air blow in last couple of days. It was -30 with the wind chill this morning when I was cutting. The wood was moving slow. Does wind chill count? 

We had that same January thaw in the 40s. Lost nearly all of the 15" of snow we had. Now its just some crusty crap. Fine with me though. Choppin out stumps was a #####. Heavy wet snow followed by serious cold made for some ####ty cutting conditions. So far we've had a pretty normal winter. A hell of a lot better than last year.


----------



## s.v tmbrjak

just got put on hold due to snow this was the last day we worked 2012. hopefully be back at it tomarrow. cutting oversize behind timbco. View attachment 275284


----------



## tramp bushler

Looks good. I can see where a Timbco would have a problem with that one. Is that a 32" your running on your saw?


----------



## tramp bushler

Bitzer; I'd rather cut in 40 below with no wind any day to 30 below wind chill. How do u keep your hands warm? ? I frosted my throat and top of my lungs so I wear a breath warming face mask when it gets cold like that and I'm cutting. But I try to NOT cut at 40 below.


----------



## s.v tmbrjak

yes 32". its my personal fav. for everything. 32" will work just fine on anything up to 7 foot! but i keep a 36 in the truck.:msp_wink:


----------



## demc570

very cool pictures,enjoy seeing them.thankyou


----------



## tramp bushler

s.v tmbrjak said:


> yes 32". its my personal fav. for everything. 32" will work just fine on anything up to 7 foot! but i keep a 36 in the truck.:msp_wink:



I used to run 32" primarily but the older and stiffer my back gets the better I like the 36 . On the 372 and 460 the 30" is the best, but by the end of the day my back is having a serious discussin.with My brain. 
Heck, I'm happy as a clam at high tide. I just got a new 16" bar for my little Jonsred. I'm cutting little dead understory spruce poles for firewood. I sure don't need a bushlin saw to cut 6" on the stump stuff. Short bars are best in the.cold anyway, more oil per driver. It makes a difference.


----------



## slowp

I saw my neighbor, the BUOF (busted up old faller) while I was on a walk this morning. I asked him if he had time, could he fall a hemlock that was blocking the sun. I described it, he said, "We'll stop by on our way to go cut firewood." So, I hurried on home to start taking bark off as it had a tree house in it and I wanted to see if there were any more nails than the one's I'd pulled out. 

They pulled up before I was done. Because there might be nails, he chose to use his grandson's saw. It had the oldest chain. He decided to swing the tree a bit and it was on the ground in no time. No nails were hit.View attachment 275504
View attachment 275505
View attachment 275506
View attachment 275507


A leetle stump pull, but a fast job. I will limb the beastly thing and perhaps cut some scandihoovian candle sized chunks. No hurry--but more slash to clean up.


----------



## bitzer

Tramp- This worked out for my face earlier this week. I was going to ask you the same question on the hands. I double up my knit fallers gloves and grab onto the muffler when ever I need to. When pickin wood up I do the same. I need the dexterity on the levers and I put my hands in front of the exhaust every once in a while. She got up to 18 today with 10mph wind. Tropical heat wave. Cuttin in a t-shirt, long sleeve, and a light sweater. Finished cuttin that god forsaken county job today. Wedging damn near EVERYTHING got old. I can finally get back to some ####in loggin! 
View attachment 275632


This stumps for Randy!
View attachment 275633


Last ####### tree. Barbwire in about foot into the back cut. The wood was soft and ugly and I had to wedge er. So I had to thow another chain on and let her ride!
View attachment 275635


----------



## tramp bushler

Ya, the hands, Idea like to take every chainsaw manufacturing company exec, and every distributor / dealer that voted to Not put heated handles on EVERY SAW SOLD NORTH OF THE MASON DIXON and make them cut where I have to every morning that I do with My hands hooked to their nervous system. See how many days they could handle the make them piss their pants pain of thawing out almost frozen hands. . Several times each day. 

I imaging a woman giving birth goes thru a lot of pain, but they don't have to do it every day [email protected]#$%&*-+()?/;:'&%$#@}{×÷π√•|`~€°^][=¶©®®\¶¶©°¢£•√π==^°π}{×÷ ;:&%%$###@@##$%&*-++()?//;::'"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You gotta watch it with those Bugz screen goggles. Where the strap bridge is, that exposed skin can and does freeze. I prefer the flip down full face screen. But the nylon screen sometimes melts thawing it out on the muffler. So the metal screen is best for the winter. 

Awesome looking work as usual! !!! I hope it wasn't a new chain you found the wire with. .


----------



## tramp bushler

The Kinco brand insulated gloves and the Refridgeware foam insulated gloves are the best I've found. Try the grey leather fridgeware foam lined gloves. The whole glove is split hide and they don't melt on the muffler. The backs of all my Kinco gloves is melted off before they are wore thru in the fingers. I need to find a good supplier of uninsulated chopper mitts. .


----------



## floyd

I'm still on the 32" bar. I can still bend some at the waist. My hands just won't do cold anymore.

I put heavy nitrile gloves over the wrist under cotton & lester polyester faller gloves. This is bad if you have to take gloves off in the cold as nitrile does not breathe but it helps me have some feeling in my hands. 

Cowboys call them roper gloves. Just a little known fact of questionable interest.


----------



## slowp

I didn't cut any trees. I liked the convertible mittens. I found them at the Army Navy Store in Ashland, WI.
They were wool lined with Thinsolite and you could flop off the top of the mitten and then have fingers in topless finger gloves. I've got good circulation. In the -20 weather if I kept moving, I'd flop off the mitten top. Hmmm, poetry.

They had unlined choppers there too. I hope they are still in business. I think I got these out here at another independently owned store. You may be able to find them in polyfleece. That's even warmer and you can wash it easily. They are inexpensive to buy so losing or destroying them won't break your bank account.

View attachment 275659
View attachment 275660
View attachment 275661


----------



## Samlock

tramp bushler said:


> Ya, the hands, Idea like to take every chainsaw manufacturing company exec, and every distributor / dealer that voted to Not put heated handles on EVERY SAW SOLD NORTH OF THE MASON DIXON and make them cut where I have to every morning that I do with My hands hooked to their nervous system. See how many days they could handle the make them piss their pants pain of thawing out almost frozen hands. . Several times each day.
> 
> I imaging a woman giving birth goes thru a lot of pain, but they don't have to do it every day [email protected]#$%&*-+()?/;:'&%$#@}{×÷π√•|`~€°^][=¶©®®\¶¶©°¢£•√π==^°π}{×÷ ;:&%%$###@@##$%&*-++()?//;::'"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> You gotta watch it with those Bugz screen goggles. Where the strap bridge is, that exposed skin can and does freeze. I prefer the flip down full face screen. But the nylon screen sometimes melts thawing it out on the muffler. So the metal screen is best for the winter.
> 
> Awesome looking work as usual! !!! I hope it wasn't a new chain you found the wire with. .



I know what you're talking about. I stick my hands under the shirt and melt them there. And jump up and down and yell a lot. Fortunately I only have to do that once a cold day. Once the pain is over, the blood circulates so well I can hold metal in my bare hands without them getting numb. I'm sorry to hear, Glen, that you got to take it more than once. You have operated chainsaws a lot longer than I have, I guess that's what it does to man's fingers.

Hand ware... Leather chainsaw mittens (with the separate trigger finger) and a pair of knitted wool gloves under work best for me.


----------



## Hddnis

Lately I've been putting some of those Hot-Hands warmers in my gloves when running machines. I just tuck them in on the back of my hands, which is good down into the teens with Atlas thermal gloves on. Running an excavator without a cab in blowing snow is a really cold job!

The inlaws bought me a box from Costco last winter and I've still got most of them left.



Mr. HE


----------



## Samlock

Came across this footage made by BC Forest Safety Council. Many details and practices vary around the world, but I think the Canadians approach the subject in a sound way. And it's entertaining too. I'd recommend every DIY logger to watch this.

[video=youtube;_lVJ8gTST5U]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lVJ8gTST5U[/video]


----------



## slowp

Samlock said:


> Came across this footage made by BC Forest Safety Council. Many details and practices vary around the world, but I think the Canadians approach the subject in a sound way. And it's entertaining too. I'd recommend every DIY logger to watch this.



So, to the chainsaw forum, the firewood forum, or with some kind of an evil gubmint conspiracy theory, the dreaded, off topic forum? 

Where shall it go? 

I must go out into the liquid sunshine and gnaw away at the hemlock. Yes, the sun is out but rain is falling. I shall see if the saw starts.


----------



## floyd

Look at the bright side...sun is shining.


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> So, to the chainsaw forum, the firewood forum, or with some kind of an evil gubmint conspiracy theory, the dreaded, off topic forum?
> 
> Where shall it go?



Let's keep it here for now.


----------



## rwoods

Gologit said:


> Let's keep it here for now.



Not that it means anything, but I agree for the reasons stated in the first pargraph below.



Samlock said:


> Came across this footage made by BC Forest Safety Council. Many details and practices vary around the world, but I think the Canadians approach the subject in a sound way. And it's entertaining too. I'd recommend every DIY logger to watch this.



There appears to be 17 videos. I have watched several and I will likely watch the rest. I assume these videos were rightfully designed for typical BC environments and trees. Although I am not a logger, I would among other things caution the DIY or wanttobe watching these videos that some species of trees pose greater risks and require different approaches. Specifically, the risk of a barber chair with the straight grained and large canopy oaks common in the East is enough IMO to make it fool hardy to spend as much time crossing back and forth behind the stem of a partially cut hardwood as some of the fallers shown do with the softwood featured. I would further caution the hardwood DIY cutter that before trying to mimic all of the cuts shown to bear in mind that some of the trees shown have much thicker bark than most of our hardwoods otherwise you may be cutting holding wood that should be preserved.

Not trying to be overly critical (as I'm not qualified), mainly just curious as to current standard practices - maybe it is just part of safety standards evolving over the course of making these videos, or maybe it is just being human, but I couldn't help but note several instances in the demonstration videos where the featured cutter violated a previously stated safety rule. I see the safety component but is it now standard practice to engage the chain brake every time you "step back" from cutting? How about two handed use of axe only? 

The one thing that really got me scratching my head was the segment on proper stance so you could look up but the cutter in the segment never looked up until he was deep into the backcut on a tree of some significant size. I have always felt that one of my many faults is that I don't look up enough once I start the backcut then I see this segment and the cutter only looks up right before finishing his backcut and then again as the tree begins its fall. Isn't SOP to lookup before starting your cut and periodically throughout the cut? Or am I just :msp_confused: ?
Ron


----------



## Samlock

I'm just assuming the boys on the video being pro enough, they're keeping their eye and mind ahead, knowing already while kneeling down by a tree, how is it standing.

Ron, I agree there's punch of questionable details. For example that monkeying with the chain brake. I just don't believe the boys will keep clicking like that when the instructor is away. And yes, their falling technique is designed for steep ground softwood. Imitating their cuts or equipment is not what I meant. I was thinking about the overall attitude towards the safety issues. It's not nagging about few individual details (as it tends to be in my country), nor it is Jedi Force mysticism. It's dismantling the whole deal into smaller pieces and estimating the pieces one at the time. Sober and cool headed. Going through a checklist, if you like. Pieces may be different, locally, but the rational method I think is universal.

Making a complete how-to-safety video is impossible. Yet I do believe it's possible to encourage rational thinking. That's why I thought this could be a good one for a DIY to watch. I may be wrong too. If people notice just the headware, face cuts and saw brands, yeah, that may be dangerous stuff. Beats me.


----------



## northmanlogging

I like the idea of breaking it down into individual pieces, and a check list is a great way to start. But it can be pretty hard to convey in video format everything that a faller is looking for and planning on. To really get what pro falling is about, the video would need to be about 1/2 hour or more longer, starting with basic saw maintenance, ppe, strip layout, judging a tree, swamping out the stump, facing it, backing it, limbing, bucking... I'm sure there is more, and each tree would be a little different...


----------



## StihlKiwi

northmanlogging said:


> I like the idea of breaking it down into individual pieces, and a check list is a great way to start. But it can be pretty hard to convey in video format everything that a faller is looking for and planning on. To really get what pro falling is about, the video would need to be about 1/2 hour or more longer, starting with basic saw maintenance, ppe, strip layout, judging a tree, swamping out the stump, facing it, backing it, limbing, bucking... I'm sure there is more, and each tree would be a little different...



There's 17 videos in the series that cover all of that and it seems that they are just companion material for the actual standards, not just a standalone guide.

The introduction has some good stuff in it

BC Faller Training Standard - Introduction (1 of 17) - YouTube


----------



## rwoods

Samlock said:


> I'm just assuming the boys on the video being pro enough, they're keeping their eye and mind ahead, knowing already while kneeling down by a tree, how is it standing.
> 
> Ron, I agree there's punch of questionable details. For example that monkeying with the chain brake. I just don't believe the boys will keep clicking like that when the instructor is away. And yes, their falling technique is designed for steep ground softwood. Imitating their cuts or equipment is not what I meant. I was thinking about the overall attitude towards the safety issues. It's not nagging about few individual details (as it tends to be in my country), nor it is Jedi Force mysticism. It's dismantling the whole deal into smaller pieces and estimating the pieces one at the time. Sober and cool headed. Going through a checklist, if you like. Pieces may be different, locally, but the rational method I think is universal.
> 
> Making a complete how-to-safety video is impossible. Yet I do believe it's possible to encourage rational thinking. That's why I thought this could be a good one for a DIY to watch. I may be wrong too. If people notice just the headware, face cuts and saw brands, yeah, that may be dangerous stuff. Beats me.



I think we are pretty much on the same page and we certainly have the same goal in mind. I don't have a problem with any of the videos I have watched so far - I think there is a lot of good stuff in them and since I have a lot to learn I watch them and pester folks - and I intend to watch all of them. I wasn't trying to nit-pick the inconsistencies but I was trying to find out current real world professional practices. 

For a little background on my perspective, as some already know I am a trespassor over here in the Forestry and Logging Forum where I take refuge from the insanity that regularily erupts in the chainsaw forum and to a lesser extent in the firewood forum. I don't make my living in the woods and I am not by any stretch of the imagination a professional cutter, but I do spent almost every Saturday from mid-September until Spring cutting firewood with volunteers. I don't think there are any logger wanttobes among the volunteers but nevertheless I have yet to meet a volunteer with a chainsaw in hand who doesn't think he can cut firewood safely. A recipe for injury. As to falling, it seems that the few who have tasted falling a tree are primarily concerned with whether or not the tree is close enough to hit anything valuable and the bar length of their saw relative to the size of the tree. A deadly recipe. I can identify with each as I have thought the same things. Thankfully I have so far survived my ignorance. And while it may sound arrogant, my resistance to the idea of posting the video in other forums is my belief that there is a small audience in these other forums that believe they can simply buy some cool gear, mimic what they thought they saw in a video and they're now a professional whom the trees will fear. Is that risk outweighed by the benefit to those who will watch and learn? Maybe, but I would hope that those folks would seek out this Forum.

Sorry for the distraction, falling pictures are more fun.

Ron


----------



## tramp bushler

I have not looked at the vids yet. But as to looking up. About the easiest way that I know to get killt. Is to start sawing away on a tree and not look up real regularly. In fact if you don't see Everything above you. 
You are just asking for a trip to a trauma center or the cemetery. 

Look up and keep your eye on your tip.


----------



## rwoods

tramp bushler said:


> I have not looked at the vids yet. But as to looking up. About the easiest way that I know to get killt. Is to start sawing away on a tree and not look up real regularly. In fact if you don't see Everything above you.
> You are just asking for a trip to a trauma center or the cemetery.
> 
> Look up and keep your eye on your tip.



I don't fault the man with the saw as he was probably so self consciencious knowing his every move was being filmed that it took him out of his routine. How it got passed the editors and producer of the segment, we'll likely never know. Anyway, thanks for the confirmation that I need to continue reminding myself to look up regularly during the entire falling process. Ron


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## tramp bushler

A Faller Needs to see everything that's above him and not just in the tree he's stickin a saw into. There's a world of hurt hanging above a guys head sometimes. Thats one reason why it's best for a guy to get on bucking and 2nd falling with a good Faller. Time spent looking over what your strip or patch of timber is some of the best you can spend. Most important too. 

Even in the little junk I'm cutting right now. .


----------



## Gologit

Took out some hazard trees along the County road.

There were half a dozen with this:View attachment 276422



[video=youtube;JvyVz0cU4A8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=JvyVz0cU4A8[/video]


]


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## forestryworks

Gologit said:


> Took out some hazard trees along the County road.
> 
> There were half a dozen with this



Looked like a nice day for doing that kind of work!


----------



## rwoods

Definitely old school: straight forward falling without all that diddling around that seems common place on Youtube falling videos.  Ron


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## Gologit

rwoods said:


> Definitely old school: straight forward falling without all that diddling around that seems common place on Youtube falling videos.  Ron



Hey, when you get old you tend to look for the most direct method.


----------



## Gologit

forestryworks said:


> Looked like a nice day for doing that kind of work!



It was. The only bad part was listening to three different kind of 'ologists argue with each other about what the defect in the trees was. I didn't mind the arguing so much as the fact that I couldn't even understand what they were saying.

You or Madhatte would have been able to interpret the scientific lingo...I sure couldn't.


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## northmanlogging

Maybe some day you could record it and ask someone to translate? nice work by the way


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## Gologit

Cutting defect chunks for the 'ologists




[video=youtube;NQic51lRQY4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=NQic51lRQY4[/video]


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## rwoods

Gologit said:


> Hey, when you get old you tend to look for the most direct method.



It also shows that you know what you are doing. I didn't need to see a video though as I never doubted that you knew your stuff. Ron


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## Gologit

rwoods said:


> It also shows that you know what you are doing. I didn't need to see a video though as I never doubted that you knew your stuff. Ron



Thanks Ron...but there are days when I doubt if I know my stuff. You can put down 100 trees just like you'd planned and that 101st might humble you for weeks afterward.

Or so I hear.


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## RandyMac

Gologit said:


> Thanks Ron...but there are days when I doubt if I know my stuff. You can put down 100 trees just like you'd planned and that 101st might humble you for weeks afterward.
> 
> Or so I hear.



I heard that same thing.

says attachment is fungalbarbed

There were half a dozen with this:Attachment 276422


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## madhatte

Gologit said:


> three different kind of 'ologists



What kinda 'ologists? Some have funnier arguments than others. Critter 'ologists don't have much sense of humor at all. Mycologists are, dare I say it, Fun Guys. Everybody else is somewhere in between.


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## forestryworks

madhatte said:


> Mycologists are, dare I say it, Fun Guys



Ha! Good one!


----------



## Gologit

madhatte said:


> What kinda 'ologists? Some have funnier arguments than others. Critter 'ologists don't have much sense of humor at all. Mycologists are, dare I say it, Fun Guys. Everybody else is somewhere in between.



Dunno what kind of 'ologists they were. They drove a mini-van...does that help? I know it's probably a faulty criteria but the 'ologists who drive pickups are usually okay. Beware the ones who drive mini-vans.

They were fussy. One of them used a tape measure and a calculator to decide exactly where my bucking cuts for the samples should be. He took a darn long time at it too. He was obviously the 'ologist in charge...the other two deferred to him and nodded their heads a lot whenever he spoke.

When I had the sample chunks on the ground I asked one of them "Well, what do you think it is"? He looked at me and said...and I'm not making this up..."You probably wouldn't understand". Oh.
No, I'm not writing this from the County jail...but it was real close there for a minute. One of the things I've discovered as I get older is that, as much fun as it might be, hitting people doesn't really accomplish anything positive. Hard on the hands, too.
I have another cutting job, same kind of deal, the end of this week. I'll know better than to do more than cut, grunt, spit, and scratch myself in inappropriate places. That seems to be what they expect.

Remember when we had the conversation awhile back about the lack of communication between the science guys and the knuckle draggers? Yesterday was a prime example of that.


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## slowp

Don't worry. They don't know what goes on in the woods in real life. Nor do most want to learn. I thought you looked peeved when cutting their blocks off. 

Took me to Forestrywork's post to get the fun guy. My coffee is still cooling, and I slept in. 

I ski a run with the new wildlife biologist when he makes his trip up to the air quality testing place. He does have humor and also gets good reviews from the timber folks for being able to work with. We skiing former FS drones get his eyes big with tales of the past. Last time we told him slash burning stories. One started with, "Were you on the one where Betsy almost got killed?" That's good for big eyes.


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## tramp bushler

Looks good Bob. In the first vid it looked like the tree had a heck of a back lean. But when it started to go I saw the understory tree that was the leaner next to it. 

You have a lot more self disepline than I . . If you use a 12" wedge it doesn't hurt your hand much.


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## Hddnis

Hey, next time you might just be such a mindless buffoon that you let a gust of wind drop the tree on their mini-van.:hmm3grin2orange:

Not much I hate worse than people who use fancy language to build themselves up and put others down. Nothing wrong with knowing or using fancy words, but thinking that using them makes a person special is just foolish.




Mr. HE


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## Trx250r180

looks a lot dryer there than here Bob ,no mud on your boots :msp_wink:


----------



## slowp

trx250r180 said:


> looks a lot dryer there than here Bob ,no mud on your boots :msp_wink:



Yes. I'm inland but my 5 gallon bucket showed 3 inches of rain in 28 hours and then, after emptying it at 3PM yesterday, there is another inch in it. Winter has returned.


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## Gologit

tramp bushler said:


> Looks good Bob. In the first vid it looked like the tree had a heck of a back lean. But when it started to go I saw the understory tree that was the leaner next to it.
> 
> You have a lot more self disepline than I . . If you use a 12" wedge it doesn't hurt your hand much.



Thanks Glen. Yeah, that tree was an optical illusion. I'll bet when you saw the little face I put in it you figured I was about to have a big accident. :msp_biggrin:


----------



## Trx250r180

slowp said:


> Yes. I'm inland but my 5 gallon bucket showed 3 inches of rain in 28 hours and then, after emptying it at 3PM yesterday, there is another inch in it. Winter has returned.



gettin trees downs not so bad right now ,getting them out with rubber tired equipments a challenge though


----------



## Gologit

Hddnis said:


> Hey, next time you might just be such a mindless buffoon that you let a gust of wind drop the tree on their mini-van.:hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> Not much I hate worse than people who use fancy language to build themselves up and put others down. Nothing wrong with knowing or using fancy words, but thinking that using them makes a person special is just foolish.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. HE



Well, to them, that was normal...the closed conversation, the technical terms, the exclusionary (how's that for a big word?) attitude. They live in their own little world and they're comfortable in it. I truly believe that they had no idea how much they pissed me off. And I don't think it would have mattered much, either.

I'm a long way from being any kind of scientist but I thought my question was valid. Guys like me who spend their time in the woods are often the first people to see and take note of unusual goings on. If we see something and it heads off an infestation of some kind it benefits all of us. The communication between the grunts and the suits just absolutely sucks.

Now, that being said...there was one back leaner that, if wedged just a little bit wrong, would have nailed their mini-van. I thought about it...I really did. But I had them move the van.
I figured if I smushed their van that I might have to give them a ride to town. I really didn't think I was up to that.


----------



## HuskStihl

Gologit said:


> Thanks Ron...but there are days when I doubt if I know my stuff. You can put down 100 trees just like you'd planned and that 101st might humble you for weeks afterward.
> 
> Or so I hear.



I really liked the video. Very efficient, no wasted movement. I need to use wedges more often 'cause I definitely don't go 100 without a humbler. Tried to defy gravity and wound up with a bunch of unplanned fence repair last month. Might have wound up being cheaper to have flown Bob in. But you did not hear that here!:biggrin:


----------



## TreeGuyHR

Gologit said:


> Dunno what kind of 'ologists they were. They drove a mini-van...does that help? I know it's probably a faulty criteria but the 'ologists who drive pickups are usually okay. Beware the ones who drive mini-vans.
> 
> They were fussy. One of them used a tape measure and a calculator to decide exactly where my bucking cuts for the samples should be. He took a darn long time at it too. He was obviously the 'ologist in charge...the other two deferred to him and nodded their heads a lot whenever he spoke.
> 
> When I had the sample chunks on the ground I asked one of them "Well, what do you think it is"? He looked at me and said...and I'm not making this up..."You probably wouldn't understand". Oh.
> No, I'm not writing this from the County jail...but it was real close there for a minute. One of the things I've discovered as I get older is that, as much fun as it might be, hitting people doesn't really accomplish anything positive. Hard on the hands, too.
> I have another cutting job, same kind of deal, the end of this week. I'll know better than to do more than cut, grunt, spit, and scratch myself in inappropriate places. That seems to be what they expect.
> 
> Remember when we had the conversation awhile back about the lack of communication between the science guys and the knuckle draggers? Yesterday was a prime example of that.



Translation -- he didn't know for sure either! Looked like some kind of canker; these are often caused by a fungus that kills some cambium; tree grows a bit, fungus kills some more, you get a canker. If they are associated with a wood decay fungus, then you could have significant internal decay. Apparently NOT in the case of these trees. So they weren't really high risk trees either. Plus, he may have been the guy that first identified them as "high risk" -- when they turned out not to be. You just "wouldn't understand" an expert being wrong, and he didn't want to upset your assumed worship of the priest class with white coats as infallible finders of "truth" :msp_tongue:


----------



## rwoods

Gologit said:


> Thanks Ron...but there are days when I doubt if I know my stuff. You can put down 100 trees just like you'd planned and that 101st might humble you for weeks afterward.
> 
> Or so I hear.



Your approach and posture signals a competant and confident man. Or a good actor. I'll bet on the former. Now if it was me, I would have to video about 101 trees and hope to find one that by sheer chance makes me look like I knew what I was doing. Ron


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## rwoods

Gologit said:


> ... But I had them move the van.
> I figured if I smushed their van that *I might have to give them a ride to town*. I really didn't think I was up to that.



That struck me as the funniest thing I have read in a while on AS. I'm still laughing. :msp_smile: Ron


----------



## Gologit

rwoods said:


> Your approach and posture signals a competant and confident man. Or a good actor. I'll bet on the former. Now if it was me, I would have to video about 101 trees and hope to find one that by sheer chance makes me look like I knew what I was doing. Ron



Now Ron, you don't think I'm going to post videos of my screw-ups, do you? Not that I ever make any of course. 

If you made a list of every mistake that it's possible to make in the woods I'd probably have a check mark by every one of them. Some of them got marked twice. The only thing I haven't done, so far anyway, is drop a tree on my pickup. 
We won't talk about my boss at that time and his brand new, just driven from the dealer, not a mark on it anywhere, F250 4wd diesel. He parked where he shouldn't have and I didn't know he was there...until I heard the yelling. He'd just got out to take a leak when I nailed that shiny ride right across the cab with a fair sized doug fir. Smashed it flat. Lucky for him he'd walked off a ways to relieve himself. He was yelling because he thought I might drop another one on him and he wanted time to get out of the way.
All he ever said about it was "I didn't think you were that close to the road yet". But it's still a check mark.


----------



## northmanlogging

Objects I've fell trees on...

house check
power line check
brother check X 6 (or more he's kinda dumb...:confused2
fence check
I'm sure there's more...

Still no cars, although my partner has hit his truck a few times with tops and branches, no big dents yet...


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## RandyMac

I torpedoed my Dad's old Chevy pick-up with a big DF snag. Dead trees slide a lot farther than green ones.


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## Gologit

Torpedoed...good choice of words. Or, as I heard a bull buck say one time..."Jeez kid, anything that went _that_ far down the hill should have taken a road map with it".


----------



## RandyMac

Gologit said:


> Torpedoed...good choice of words. Or, as I heard a bull buck say one time..."Jeez kid, anything that went _that_ far down the hill should have taken a road map with it".



We called those Locomotives.


----------



## rwoods

Well, I haven't hit any of those *yet*, except a fence and that was with the owner's permission. But my record is only because my almost 40 years of cutting would likely involve fewer trees of substance than what you guys have fallen in a week. And just maybe because I don't have to deal with mini van driving turkeys like Bob described. Ron


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## northmanlogging

nothin quite like parking a 40" dia. hemlock between a house a shed and a fence, grand total of clearance 3' on each side:msp_ohmy:


----------



## Gologit

northmanlogging said:


> nothin quite like parking a 40" dia. hemlock between a house a shed and a fence, grand total of clearance 3' on each side:msp_ohmy:



Yup...and then you just stand there, looking cool and highly skilled, until your pulse rate falls back down below stroke level, the dry mouth goes away, and you start taking normal breaths again.


----------



## slowp

We have a Bob here who is good at making things look easy. His saying is, " I just have to miss it, it doesn't matter by how much."


----------



## Gologit

That's a good saying.


----------



## TreeGuyHR

slowp said:


> We have a Bob here who is good at making things look easy. His saying is, " I just have to miss it, it doesn't matter by how much."



Like this?

View attachment 276577


I missed the drift boat AND the home (cedar window-wall lodge type thing). I probably shouldn't have tried to drop it at all, and just broken the top out with the rigging rope and the felled what was left. a chunk of it actually flew over my truck in the background and landed on the far side!


----------



## northmanlogging

Then there is the light headed maybe gonna vomit or pass out feeling, after hitting some power lines, because you failed to see just how tall this trees is, as you spend the next hour and 45 mins watching the top scrape the pole and you're just sure its time to pack up and run like Hel and why couldn't you just come back tomarrow when you were fresh and not dog tired after fighting ivy all day a crap I'm going to jail on this one, who the hel do I think I am falling trees anyway, and what was I thinking not tying this one off it looked easier than that

But then for some reason the lines don't break, and the tree is on the ground, and everthing is ok

Total lapse time from last beat of the wedge to tree hitting the ground maybe 5 seconds, time taken off the life expectancy of my ticker 3 years


----------



## redprospector

RandyMac said:


> I torpedoed my Dad's old Chevy pick-up with a big DF snag. Dead trees slide a lot farther than green ones.



Look anything like this?







Andy


----------



## RandyMac

redprospector said:


> Look anything like this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andy



It didn't get off that easy. The tree hit it right in the driver's side door, pushed it in to tranny hump, the inertia carried the Chevy over the bank, a 30 foot ride to the bottom. The body and frame could still be there, the engine/tranny were salvaged.


----------



## Hddnis

Gologit said:


> Yup...and then you just stand there, looking cool and highly skilled, until your pulse rate falls back down below stroke level, the dry mouth goes away, and you start taking normal breaths again.





You ain't a kidding about that! 



Mr. HE


----------



## OlympicYJ

Honestly.... I have hit some crap that I'm none too proud of. Well only one really. 

Building fourby trail on private property.... luckily no big trees on anything but whippy cascara hit a few hoods. Biggest thing was too many people crowding in too close. Everyone finally backed off (after my explanation of what I needed to keep them safe) :bang: and let me work ahead of them dropping trees and brush with a safe working distance.

The onces that got dicey were when folks got wedged right next to nice 12-14" fir and couldn't move. I told em up front I was not responsible for any damages. Everything turned out okay and no damage to the rigs. That adrenaline rush when you're scared crapless is somethin else....

Worst dry mouth incident was on a thinning job and I was chunking one down and had it head towards the water line where a freeze drain stuck up.... I avoided thinning near there after that one. This was really a commercial thinning but got cut up for firewood. Had a few good sized ones I took down. Unfortunately alot of it wouldn't fall and had to be chunked down. I wished it had been PCT size.


----------



## tramp bushler

When cutting a strip a guy is hard pressed to hang onto his timber sometimes. If I'm close to something man made that can get destroyed I put on the belt and spurs. I split the back off a spruce on time where a bunch of people were standing around. Thank God , I got er into the lay I had picked out. But I was soooo stressed I was cross eyed for the rest of the day. Felt like it anyway. After that I just say forget it. . Pull em or get someone else.


----------



## rwoods

northmanlogging said:


> ... who the hel do I think I am falling trees anyway, and what was I thinking not tying this one off it looked easier than that ...
> ...
> Total lapse time from last beat of the wedge to tree hitting the ground maybe 5 seconds, time taken off the life expectancy of my ticker 3 years



I know your feeling, I was thinking the same just two weeks ago. Since it was a dead snag, I was also repeating to myself "you ain't RandyMac." It went down after 30 minutes or so of popping and groaning. Using your math, I guess my heart is among the oldest in any man still alive. Ron


----------



## madhatte

Never been so scared by a tree as that time I had a burning tree collapse on its stump and go 120 degrees from its intended lay, across a road and into a powerline... and scatter my crew. I think my crew being scared freaked me out more than even the powerline snapping. I've told that story before so I won't go into detail here, but that was a HAIRY few moments. It woulda been on film but my "cinematographer" dropped his camera when he ran. I guess it broke or something.


----------



## floyd

Then there are thise times you want to hit it, just a little, to slow it down, or to keep it from going over the edge.


----------



## s.v tmbrjak

Nothing scarier then cutting off your far corner and seeing that four footer come right at ya.that will keep ya on your toes


----------



## tramp bushler

I was cutting in Seward in March of 92 . There was 4' of snow standing in the woods. I was falling a cottonwood that was a bit over 48" on the stump. I Mis judged the lean because of a big limb. The Dutchman I had put in turned into the same as cutting the far corner off. .
When the tree came at me I chickened out and ran up my trail I'd packed down. I was wearing 14"x48" Snowshoes. I had about 1 month on that Ace Morgan hopped up 394 . If I remember right that mistake cost me 1037 $ .


----------



## Samlock

tramp bushler said:


> I was cutting in Seward in March of 92 . There was 4' of snow standing in the woods. I was falling a cottonwood that was a bit over 48" on the stump. I Mis judged the lean because of a big limb. The Dutchman I had put in turned into the same as cutting the far corner off. .
> When the tree came at me I chickened out and ran up my trail I'd packed down. I was wearing 14"x48" Snowshoes. I had about 1 month on that Ace Morgan hopped up 394 . If I remember right that mistake cost me 1037 $ .



Just forget the saw and #### off, that's right thing to do. It does look scary when it comes at you, but you have plenty of time to take a couple of necessary steps to the side. Tree falls slowly, at least it looks like that. Well, a pair of snowshoes on your feet makes it a whole different deal.

They still haven't sent me a bill for the streetlight that I twisted in October with a tree I almost had on my lap. You won't see me complaining.


----------



## TreeGuyHR

madhatte said:


> Never been so scared by a tree as that time I had a burning tree collapse on its stump and go 120 degrees from its intended lay, across a road and into a powerline... and scatter my crew. I think my crew being scared freaked me out more than even the powerline snapping. I've told that story before so I won't go into detail here, but that was a HAIRY few moments. It woulda been on film but my "cinematographer" dropped his camera when he ran. I guess it broke or something.



Thought you might like see these -- friend of mine, was the hazard tree faller on lots of fires. I think these are from the North Cascades. Couple of big, smoking, hollow cedars. Looks like he and another guy were cutting on the same tree at the same time?

View attachment 276798
View attachment 276799
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## twochains

TreeGuyHR said:


> Thought you might like see these -- friend of mine, was the hazard tree faller on lots of fires. I think these are from the North Cascades. Couple of big, smoking, hollow cedars. Looks like he and another guy were cutting on the same tree at the same time?
> 
> View attachment 276798
> View attachment 276799
> View attachment 276800
> View attachment 276801



Freaking awesome!!!! How do those hazard fallers sit down with such big balls??? LULLZ!! :msp_w00t:


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## TreeGuyHR

twochains said:


> Freaking awesome!!!! How do those hazard fallers sit down with such big balls??? LULLZ!! :msp_w00t:



Here is one more -- looks like the crew was proud of this one (although the big hollow cedar that was ON FIRE was more dangerous, IMHO). This big fir was probably also on fire, but at least not at the base!

View attachment 276812
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## twochains

TreeGuyHR said:


> Here is one more -- looks like the crew was proud of this one (although the big hollow cedar that was ON FIRE was more dangerous, IMHO). This big fir was probably also on fire, but at least not at the base!
> 
> View attachment 276812
> View attachment 276814



How much more damage could that fir have taken before it fell on it's own? It looks like it could just snap, about 2ft from the top of the burn in that dent! Fricken scarey!!

Oh.....and I would like to change "balls" to "nerves" being as there is a pretty lady in pic #2. :msp_biggrin:


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## madhatte

TreeGuyHR said:


> Looks like he and another guy were cutting on the same tree at the same time?



Yow! Gnarly!


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## TreeGuyHR

Should probably mention that my friend is the guy in Nomex in the shots of the cedar trees. At least one guy here has told me he knows who he is -- on a thread with no pics, based on me saying I had a friend wanting to sell an 090 AV with a 6 ft. bar for a pot of money. I first met hm in around 1990.

If anyone reading this knows who he is, kindly don't put his name in print -- he values his privacy and is a little paranoid. Been burned by some people over the years. I have worked with him on a couple jobs --- and he is actually really hard to work with. Does it his way, even though it might be a bit crazy, and even if you thought there might be some discussion about how. One of those old loggers who has a reputation, and makes both friends and enemies. 

I tend to believe his stories, because I have seen him climb -- and that _is_ him in these pics in his prime, probably mid 1980's. Does not suffer fools. He has told me he topped a hazard tree in Sequoia NP at 8 ft. diameter -- 200 ft. up, and I believe it even though I didn't see it. Said he laid down on the top for awhile (passed on doing a jig or head-stand):msp_biggrin:


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## rwoods

You guys have got to quit talking about hitting things - it may be contagious just like CAD is over in the chainsaw forum. Below is some pictures of a little mishap today. I was cutting dead snags again today. The one pictured is down an embankment in a new subdivision. I planned my fall from the street level but when I finally got through all the vines and brush to get to the tree. I changed my falling direction to better accommodate an escape path and to "conserve a little energy". I forgot about the electrical conduit stubs that I now couldn't see. As you can see in the pictures, it is a good thing I didn't overly underestimate the height of the snag. I can't take any credit for clipping just one conduit. 

After this post, I'll put up some pictures that will get me run off AS; but Bob had asked in the past to see some of my ugly stumps and I have a doozy from this afternoon. It's been nice hanging out with you folks -:msp_sad: Ron












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## rwoods

*Ugly Stump*

I was asked to put this broken oak on the ground today. I was having an extraordinary day for me in matching my cuts on the face cuts so I was feeling pretty good especially after they actually matched on this tree with its wider than my 36" bar cuts. The first picture is the before shot. A farmer had already been enlisted to pull the broken portion of the top off. He couldn't. I got to ride his hay spear up to cut a holding limb (the horizonal one from the left) - one of the more stupid things I've done as there was nothing to hold on to, other than wrapping your feet around the spear, and the guy was just a little jerky with the clutch as well as the tilt lever which he kept fiddling with - I assume while trying to be helpful. Anyway after I cut the limb, he was able to push off the broke top. No pictures were made of that little adventure. The second and third pictures are shots of what happen when the more hollow than I expected tree split down the middle as I was thinning the side and fell about 15 degrees or so off my intended line. It caught my chain and about 1/4" of the tip of my bar leaving my saw hung. Before I was done whittling on the down stem with another saw, I got it caught in the tip as well. We were able to bump the stem with the tractor and free both saws. The fourth picture is the downing of the now split stub. It had no weight left to fall where originally intended. I buried two wedges in it with no real effect so I thinned the hinge and it broke when I whacked the wedges again - as you can see it fell way off the original plan. 

Also as you can see in the pictures, I need to mount a little level bubble on my bar as my cuts may have matched today but my level cuts sure weren't level. 

I guess I should turn in my chainsaws now and my AS membership card. Ron























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## Hddnis

rwoods, man I'm laughing here, may not be the kind of sympathy you are looking for but, well, that was funny. Sometimes I think having a guy around with a tractor is asking for trouble. So often they want to help and frankly nine times out of ten a guy sitting on a seat is no help AT ALL. They can't see what needs pushed or pulled as clearly and they don't have nearly the control they think they do. If they insist on helping I back way the heck up. Sure there a exceptions and I like machines a lot, but a downed tree and a tractor are a bad brew waiting for hot water.



Mr. HE


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## rwoods

Just some remembrance parting shots. I threw the hammer in for Bob. No, I didn't drive the wedges with it. The saws are for the MAC thread. I guess I won't be needing the 4 unused new wedges I bought today or the oil. Or that brand new bar and chain on the 800. Unless someone throws me a lifeline. :msp_wink: Ron











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## rwoods

Hddnis said:


> rwoods, man I'm laughing here, may not be the kind of sympathy you are looking for but, well, that was funny. Sometimes I think having a guy around with a tractor is asking for trouble. So often they want to help and frankly nine times out of ten a guy sitting on a seat is no help AT ALL. They can't see what needs pushed or pulled as clearly and they don't have nearly the control they think they do. If they insist on helping I back way the heck up. Sure there a exceptions and I like machines a lot, but a downed tree and a tractor are a bad brew waiting for hot water.
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. HE



Thanks. I'm not looking for sympathy. With volunteers you sometimes just have to go with the flow. If I could have gotten off that spear I would have but the fella had his mind set and no yelling or hand waving had any desired effect so I just clung to it. 

I really don't like cutting with or around other people as most are a distraction. Ron


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## Gologit

Nah, go ahead and keep your card. You've already figured out why things went wrong and that's more than half the battle.

Another old logger story...The faller got in a hurry and didn't check for old stumps in the lay, dropped a big tree on them and consequently splattered a perfectly good OG into pieces. (we won't say who the faller was) There were several big chunks of shattered Redwood where there should have been a whole log. Kinda looked like a blast zone. The bullbuck happened by...bullbucks have a real talent for showing up out of nowhere immediately after a screwup...looked at what was left of the tree, and asked the faller "learn anything?" The faller just kind of stared at the ground and said "yeah". The bullbuck nodded and said "good" and walked off.

Screwups aren't so bad...if we learn from them.


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## rwoods

Thanks, Bob, you are a merciful guy. I'll try to behave better. Ron


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## mdavlee

I was cutting a maple in my grandmothers yard down. My new FIL was over with my mom and they were going to drag brush while I was doing all the cutting. He decided he would help drive wedges. He got excited and pounded one in farther than the other and pushed the tree about 45° from where I had faced it and caught a 372 and bar and broke the weld on the bottom of the handle and bent the bar. My dad can drive wedges for me but no one else.


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## slowp

As usual, the faller gods plugged up one of my walking routes. Look at the odd cedar stump. Since I had on shorts--temps were in the 50s and it was summer like, I did not feel like wading on through. 

Here are apres falling pictures. I think they are cutting right of way.

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## Gologit

slowp said:


> As usual, the faller gods plugged up one of my walking routes. Look at the odd cedar stump. Since I had on shorts--temps were in the 50s and it was summer like, I did not feel like wading on through.
> 
> Here are apres falling pictures. I think they are cutting right of way.
> 
> View attachment 277036
> View attachment 277037



Hmmmm...that second one might have been a tad high on the back cut? :msp_biggrin:


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## northmanlogging

Did that danger job today... sorry no pics (home owner was concerned with privacy...), but I can tell you the there was lots of vine maple to smack me in the face while driving the skidder, and since this was more of a help your neighbor out deal, that some guys really shouldn't handle chainsaws.

This was the steep one I mentioned a few weeks ago, sand in yer shorts is not a fun day 45 mins to get 5-6 trees on the ground and 7-8 hours watching other people trip down a hill pulling chokers and swearing alot makes for kind of a fun day.


----------



## Hddnis

rwoods said:


> Thanks. I'm not looking for sympathy. With volunteers you sometimes just have to go with the flow. If I could have gotten off that spear I would have but the fella had his mind set and no yelling or hand waving had any desired effect so I just clung to it.
> 
> I really don't like cutting with or around other people as most are a distraction. As I was bucking up the first stem, I couldn't get this guy to stay away. He kept coming over trying to push and wedge for me. On one visit he succeeded in wiggling things just enough to knock my chain off - chewed 5 drivers off a only once resharpened 32" .404 chain. On my cut just before that one he takes my drilling hammer and wedge, yells to me "I got them and I'll have them when you need them". Well before I finish the 4' cut I need them - he's gone with them in hand yakking with someone about 200 feet away. I ended up pounding in my second wedge with a short limb until it broke. But what can I say, he gives up his Saturday to help, stay late today and asked me to chunk up the second half of the tree so he could come back to cut it up tomorrow after church. Ron





Yep, exactly how I pictured it going down. Been there, had that kind of "help" where you hate to be rude but they aren't helping any. Glad you lived to tell us about it.:msp_wink:



Mr. HE


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## rwoods

mdavlee said:


> I was cutting a maple in my grandmothers yard down. My new FIL was over with my mom and they were going to drag brush while I was doing all the cutting. He decided he would help drive wedges. He got excited and pounded one in farther than the other and pushed the tree about 45° from where I had faced it and caught a 372 and bar and broke the weld on the bottom of the handle and bent the bar. My dad can drive wedges for me but no one else.



Michael, I feel for you man. But what can you do - new FIL and all. Ron


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## RandyMac

Gologit said:


> Hmmmm...that second one might have been a tad high on the back cut? :msp_biggrin:



overcut LOL!!


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## slowp

RandyMac said:


> overcut LOL!!



Maybe they are learning? I noticed that the tops were lopped off but only one side was limbed. Who knows? It is flat ground, there is a feller buncher working in the area maybe a mile away, but it has been soppy wet. The moon is not full, and the planets are not aligned. :msp_ohmy:


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## RandyMac

Overcutting is a beginner's mistake. When the tree doesn't fall, they keep on sawing in hope the tree will obey.
From the photo, the tree decided to do it's own thing.


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## Gologit

RandyMac said:


> Overcutting is a beginner's mistake. When the tree doesn't fall, they keep on sawing in hope the tree will obey.
> From the photo, the tree decided to do it's own thing.



I watched a guy do that on a small cedar. I guess he was just in la-la land because he went high on the back and sawed it clear out. And it just sat there, teetering a little. The guy woke up pretty fast and grabbed a wedge and as soon as he got a gap he hammered it in and took off running the other way. It worked.

And, no it wasn't me. I was on the next strip...yelling "run damn ya, run!". He didn't think that was very funny.


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## Metals406

Get to do some falling this week. . . Hopefully pics/vids will happen. :smile2:


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## paccity

Metals406 said:


> Get to do some falling this week. . . Hopefully pics/vids will happen. :smile2:


ben quiet around here lately. lookin forward to it.


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## RandyMac

paccity said:


> ben quiet around here lately. lookin forward to it.



Which route are you using to head south?


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## paccity

RandyMac said:


> Which route are you using to head south?


depends on what day i head down. was kina thinkin i-5 and cutting over at rosberg then 101. strait down is 9+.


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## RandyMac

It will be good to see you. Anything I can bring for you?


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## paccity

heck just your self and the gift of gab.:msp_wink:. if we figure anything out down there may be i can snag it on the return leg. you need to remind me what i have back logged for you and anyone else down that way i might have spaced off.


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## tramp bushler

Ron ; tho being a mean ol prik isn't one of the Fruits of the Spirit, it does come in handy when the galutes show up. 

There's an old Bushlers saying " Show me a lean and I'll show you a lay" 
From the pic of the stob it looked like it wanted to go over the back cut. 
I'd take a club t someone that did that to one of my saws, and people around me know it. 

If one of my saws is gonna get wrecked, I'll wreck it myself thank you very much. 


That tree was a train wreck to start with so really you did OK.


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## tramp bushler

You must of been hanging around Randy too much with such a flock of old Cully's :msp_sneaky::rolleyes2:


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## rwoods

tramp bushler said:


> Ron ; tho being a mean ol prik isn't one of the Fruits of the Spirit, it does come in handy when the galutes show up.
> 
> There's an old Bushlers saying " Show me a lean and I'll show you a lay"
> From the pic of the stob it looked like it wanted to go over the back cut.
> I'd take a club t someone that did that to one of my saws, and people around me know it.
> 
> If one of my saws is gonna get wrecked, I'll wreck it myself thank you very much.
> 
> 
> That tree was a train wreck to start with so really you did OK.



As I mentioned in a reply to Randy in the MAC thread, I cut it exactly backwards trying to put it down just to the right of the property line but in the field to the right. It fell to the side with the thicker holding wood on the left turning it further to the left. Most of it made into the right field but not all of it as planned. The facecut was solid and I assumed that the bulk of the tree was as well but we all know about assumptions. The remaining slab was exactly as you described but I thought I could wedge it over so I stuck with the original direction. Other than everybody watching you and trying to account for them during this cut, big old trees in the open or along edges are less stressful to me than cutting 15" to 18" snags in the woods. Ron


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## slowp

Ron, do you have a safety talk before starting work each day? The two organizations I've done work with start the day with a safety talk. It is the same one and is repetitious, but they have to do it because the crew members change each day and usually totally new people turn up. 

Then when we break up, the sawyer is in charge of the people working around him/her. That is made clear during the initial meeting. The first rule in sawing is to make sure everybody is clear, and stays clear. 

When I've been called to be a lookout on a road during hazard tree falling, the same goes. The sawyer basically assigns everybody a spot to be in, and STAY at. 

They are firm, but polite. They have to be.


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## northmanlogging

these be the only pics I could get away with from yesterday... and one was take'n on the fly while me and the wifey were on walksies... sorry no stump shots...


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## rwoods

slowp said:


> Ron, do you have a safety talk before starting work each day? The two organizations I've done work with start the day with a safety talk. It is the same one and is repetitious, but they have to do it because the crew members change each day and usually totally new people turn up.
> 
> Then when we break up, the sawyer is in charge of the people working around him/her. That is made clear during the initial meeting. The first rule in sawing is to make sure everybody is clear, and stays clear.
> 
> When I've been called to be a lookout on a road during hazard tree falling, the same goes. The sawyer basically assigns everybody a spot to be in, and STAY at.
> 
> They are firm, but polite. They have to be.



Short answer: No, nothing really beyond a breakfast prayer for no injuries. Ron


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## slowp

Sounds like time to sit down and regroup. 

https://www.rit.edu/~w-outrea/training/Module2/M2_JHA.pdf

The link is to a site with a job hazard analysis. We also go over that, and since we work on Forest Service, we all sign off on it. That is also part of the prework safety meeting.


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## Gologit

slowp said:


> Sounds like time to sit down and regroup.
> 
> https://www.rit.edu/~w-outrea/training/Module2/M2_JHA.pdf
> 
> The link is to a site with a job hazard analysis. We also go over that, and since we work on Forest Service, we all sign off on it. That is also part of the prework safety meeting.



I started to read that but it made me thirsty for a cup of coffee. I made some and then needed some cake to go with it and...


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## rwoods

Slowp, thanks for your posts and link. Short of an injury, I am trying to get these guys' attention. Like most of us, volunteers can be independent and stubborn. I'm pretty bullheaded myself. I didn't wear eye protection until about ten or fifteen years ago when a saw picked something up and hit me in the eye - no damage but it almost took me to my knees. I didn't wear hearing protection (except while shooting) until my dad went practically deaf after years of running his planers. I first bought my chaps as a "cool" accessory. I learned my respect for working around chainsaws from my father's instruction, but I learn my respect for operating one through personal injury. And I learned my respect for tree falling through near misses and being close to a logger's death and a weekend warrior's total incapacitation. There is too much potential for death and injury to expect everyone to learn that way which is why I am not giving up.

To avoid anyone from getting torqued and risk my ability to influence them, I am going to delete or edit my earlier posts to make them less personal.

Thanks again, Ron


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## slowp

Gologit said:


> I started to read that but it made me thirsty for a cup of coffee. I made some and then needed some cake to go with it and...



Then you should put that down on your hazard analysis. Sounds like it could be dangerous!:msp_ohmy:


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## Gologit

slowp said:


> Then you should put that down on your hazard analysis. Sounds like it could be dangerous!:msp_ohmy:



Only to my waistline. Blackberry cake.


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## tramp bushler

Ron ; One thing you can do if you have any question of weather the wood you need is sound enough to do what you need it to is bore it. We do lots of boring when falling and grade bucking. . If your running full skip 404 it can be pretty rough and quite lively sometimes. But it really does help to know what is really sound and what just looked that way from the outside. 
If you haven't done much vertical boring there are some tricks that make it doable and a lot safer. .


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## tramp bushler

NorthMan ; that looks like a perilous place to pack a couple falling saws.


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## northmanlogging

tramp bushler said:


> NorthMan ; that looks like a perilous place to pack a couple falling saws.



I left the house like that... Job was on the other side of the neighborhood... saws where removed once I arrived :msp_smile:


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## TreeGuyHR

I realize you guys and gals have been talking about getting a rotted/hollow tree down. 

I have a related question:

What is the collective opinion (or multiple opinions) on directionally felling trees with relatively weak wood that have crown weight, sweep, or lean the wrong way? 

I can think back on pine and cottonwood that DID NOT behave as I had thought they would, in that they "split the difference" with my face cut, even with adequate holding wood.

Possible answer:

Is the correct explanation for this that the amount of holding wood was probably not enough, so that the tree broke off the stump too soon?

Possible solution:

Use a "soft Dutchman " to turn the tree while keeping it on the stump?

I have used a "regular Dutchman" before, so I know they can work; saw a video posted here on the "soft" technique but it was in Doug fir. I also realize that there are more things to consider than species, such as the amount of weight going the wrong way as well as the size of the tree.

I added two pics for an an example. This 40 in.(stump ht.) by 80 ft. stub (p-pine completely brushed out and topped) split the difference the wrong way, going diagonally over the pavement instead of parallel to it. I had about 2 - 3 in. of holding wood and a rope tied right at the top and to a winch at about a 30 degree angle on the upside of the lean, relative to the lay I wanted parallel to the pavement.

View attachment 277290
View attachment 277291


The stub fell as predicted at first, and then started going towards the driveway about 1/3 of the way down. I don't have any pics of the aftermath because i was mightily p.o.'d


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## northmanlogging

For me its a little guess and by golly. But I try to leave allot more holding wood since the middle is all sorts of rotten you can only count on the outside edges. I imagine a soft dutch or maybe even a sizwheel would help. But with any tree that's very rotten its a scary proposition to try and swing em or even wedging em over can be dicey. If at all possible rig em and pull em, if you have the room and traction to do so.


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## Samlock

Thinning a young stand hand cutting pulp sticks is getting more and more rare these days for me. So I'm trying to enjoy it. This is not a commercial cut either, but a landscaping operation


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## Hddnis

treeguy, from those two pics I'm not seeing any reason that you shouldn't have gotten that to lay right where you wanted it, unless it was totally rotten. It is possible it leans more than it looks like, I was trying to judge it off the other trees in the pictures so I maybe wrong. What was the wind like?

I've never really had pine or cotton wood give me trouble, other than heavy branches to one side kind of stuff, but the holding wood has always done its job if I did mine. (And I always do my job.)



Mr. HE


----------



## TreeGuyHR

Hddnis said:


> treeguy, from those two pics I'm not seeing any reason that you shouldn't have gotten that to lay right where you wanted it, unless it was totally rotten. It is possible it leans more than it looks like, I was trying to judge it off the other trees in the pictures so I maybe wrong. What was the wind like?
> 
> I've never really had pine or cotton wood give me trouble, other than heavy branches to one side kind of stuff, but the holding wood has always done its job if I did mine. (And I always do my job.)
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. HE



Well, it surprised me too. I did not cut my corners and I had a clean Humboldt face cut, but the tree did have both a lean and sweep directed 90 degrees from the lay I wanted. My interpretation at the time was just not enough holding wood. 

Another thought I had was that the haul rope should have been at 180 to the lean and tied off to an anchor (instead of my truck winch) to help direct the stub once it did break off. I pounded a wedge, had my guy start the winch, and the line went slack almost immediately -- meaning it was totally out of the equation at that point. The stub fell right in the middle of the angle between the direction that the weight wanted to take the tree and the haul rope, instead of a few degrees short of the rope. 

I talked about this tree before on Arboristsite; just wondering if anyone had some more thoughts about the amount of holding wood and whether or not a Dutchman would have helped. I might just go back and take a pic of the stump -- this pine still bugs me!


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## tramp bushler

Siswheel's work good any time you want to keep the tree attached to the stump for a longer period of time. .

My practice is if a tree can reach and destroy something I'm being paid to NOT hit . I climb it and take it down from the top, or I rig it and pull it and will put pendalum lines in it. 
There is really no magic bullet in falling a tree. At some point gravity or wind is going to gain total control of the tree. That can only be controlled by lines put in the right place and used right. 
Pendelum lines are like guy lines and they need be tail holted so they can do their job.


----------



## Hddnis

At what point did the holding wood break? Reason I ask is in a situation like that, where I want the tree in a certain spot to protect something, I often use a really wide open face and often go just a little deeper than the standard 1/3 depth. On some of them you have to keep the "power steering" on until they hit the ground. Some of the trickier ones I've swung were still moving sideways as they hit the ground and the hinge didn't snap until just as they touched down. If you use this get well away from the stump, because that hinge holding on like that can send some funny whip through the tree and toss the butt sideways, or I suppose even backwards, but I've never seen that myself.

With a rope up in the top to pull it where you want it to go it helps to layout your plan. If you are tying off to a stump or truck you run the rope out to where you want the tree to end up. Give yourself enough to tie off with and now you know that as it falls the rope will pull the tree to that point. I've done it where when the tree started the rope was slack and then got tight as it fell, there is of course the risk of snaping the rope if it loads up too fast and heavy, but you don't always have an anchor point right were you need it. Pre-loading tension on the rope can help too, if you can set it up that way, but that can pull holding wood too early in the fall, so you have to watch for that.







But it sounds like you've already figured the rope part of it out. I'm just sharing how I've done it, because I hate it when a rope doesn't work like it should.

I would say the face cut was your problem, hard to say for sure what you should have used since I wasn't there. But a simple Humbolt and back cut probably wouldn't have been enough, unless the rope was pulling on the way down. A dutchman or as mentioned a siswheel would have made a huge difference based on the pics and what you've said about it. 

Anyway, hope this rambling helps you some. I know what it's like to keep playing something over trying to figure out what you could have done different. Matter of fact I just did a welding repair on a cast aluminum head that while it works, isn't very pretty, I'm still thinking about how I could have changed the prep, or gas mix, or what have you, to get a better looking weld. Oh, well, for now I need more coffee.



Mr. HE


----------



## Hddnis

Another comforting thought is that maybe you didn't do anything wrong, it was just your turn to be humbled by the tree gods.:hmm3grin2orange:

Now I really am going to get some coffee.



Mr. HE


----------



## TreeGuyHR

Hddnis said:


> Another comforting thought is that maybe you didn't do anything wrong, it was just your turn to be humbled by the tree gods.:hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> Now I really am going to get some coffee.
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. HE



I think I am following what you are saying here. The tree's holding wood broke relatively early in the fall, but because I had the rope at about 120 degrees from the lean, it only corrected the fall about half way, to 60 degrees, and I needed to go to 90 degrees. If the stub fell at exactly that angle, it would have laid down parallel to the blacktop and about 6 ft. away. 

I guess I tempted the tree Gods. I should have thought harder about several facts: 

This tree (stub) had to fall close to a target;
It was tall and heavy;
It had a significant sweep and lean!

Then I should have asked myself what the haul rope was FOR -- it wasn't to get the tree moving (that was the easy part -- it was to direct its fall. Therefore, the bast place for it was opposite the lean, not at some place between that spot and the lay. 

In fact, I had worked with a logger earlier that year (I nailed the driveway last Spring); I hung a cable in a pine leaning even more than this one and right towards a house; it also also had a split at the base that had recently increased. He faced it about 120 degrees from the lean, made a back cut leaving about 30% as holding wood, and had his small CAT drive away ( it was parked 180 degrees from the lean with a tight line on the drum). The tree went a little past straight up, broke off, and fell about 90 degrees to the lean in a perfect side hill. 

Somehow, that experience was not on my mind when I pasted the blacktop a few months later. At least I missed the phone box and fire hydrant that were on the FAR side of the pavement, so I wasn't punished that badly

I have some pics of that other pine, a little blurry 'cause it was snowing out.

View attachment 277339
View attachment 277340
View attachment 277341
View attachment 277342
View attachment 277343


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## TreeGuyHR

TreeGuyHR said:


> I think I am following what you are saying here. The tree's holding wood broke relatively early in the fall, but because I had the rope at about 120 degrees from the lean, it only corrected the fall about half way, to 60 degrees, and I needed to go to 90 degrees. If the stub fell at exactly that angle, it would have laid down parallel to the blacktop and about 6 ft. away.
> 
> I guess I tempted the tree Gods. I should have thought harder about several facts:
> 
> This tree (stub) had to fall close to a target;
> It was tall and heavy;
> It had a significant sweep and lean!
> 
> Then I should have asked hat the haul rope was FOR -- it wasn't to get the tree moving (that was the easy part -- it was to direct its fall. Therefore, the bast place for it was opposite the lean, not at some place between that spot and the lay.
> 
> In fact, I had worked with a logger earlier that year (I nailed the driveway last Spring); I hung a cable in a pine leaning even more than this one and right towards a house; it also also had a split at the base that had recently increased. He faced it about 120 degrees from the lean, made a back cut leaving about 30% as holding wood, and had his small CAT drive away ( it was parked 180 degrees from the lean with a tight line on the drum). The tree went a little past straight up, broke off, and fell about 90 degrees to the lean in a perfect side hill.
> 
> Somehow, that experience was not on my mind when I pasted the blacktop a few months later. At least I missed the phone box and fire hydrant that were on the FAR side of the pavement, so I wasn't punished that badly
> 
> I have some pics of that other pine, a little blurry 'cause it was snowing out.
> 
> View attachment 277339
> View attachment 277340
> View attachment 277341
> View attachment 277342
> View attachment 277343



Couple more, before and after. You can see that the faller left some holding wood on each side of the pre-existing crack, which pulled out of the stump (along with a large root). 

View attachment 277344
View attachment 277345
View attachment 277346


----------



## paccity

more stink, 12 more to go.


----------



## paccity

[video=facebook;565084343502062]http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=565084343502062[/video] did not shot that vid , i'm down there some wear.


----------



## Metals406

paccity said:


> [video=facebook;565084343502062]http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=565084343502062[/video] did not shot that vid , i'm down there some wear.



Can't see the video cause of privacy settings.


----------



## twochains

Arghhh...we can't see it! :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## paccity

changed the settings on fb. work now?


----------



## twochains

Nope...  Do you have the vid on a you tube channel you could link to? Are we going to have to friend you to get to see the vid???  lullz


----------



## Metals406

paccity said:


> changed the settings on fb. work now?



We're friends on FB, and I can't see the video -- weird.

You must have it set to "super secret".


----------



## paccity

it's set on public? tried to load it to my utube but it would not let me . i'll work on it . was not spectacular.


----------



## rwoods

TreeGuyHR said:


> I realize you guys and gals have been talking about getting a rotted/hollow tree down.
> 
> I have a related question:
> 
> What is the collective opinion (or multiple opinions) on directionally felling trees with relatively weak wood that have crown weight, sweep, or lean the wrong way?
> 
> I can think back on pine and cottonwood that DID NOT behave as I had thought they would, in that they "split the difference" with my face cut, even with adequate holding wood.
> 
> Possible answer:
> 
> Is the correct explanation for this that the amount of holding wood was probably not enough, so that the tree broke off the stump too soon?
> 
> Possible solution:
> 
> Use a "soft Dutchman " to turn the tree while keeping it on the stump?
> 
> I have used a "regular Dutchman" before, so I know they can work; saw a video posted here on the "soft" technique but it was in Doug fir. I also realize that there are more things to consider than species, such as the amount of weight going the wrong way as well as the size of the tree.
> 
> I added two pics for an an example. This 40 in.(stump ht.) by 80 ft. stub (p-pine completely brushed out and topped) split the difference the wrong way, going diagonally over the pavement instead of parallel to it. I had about 2 - 3 in. of holding wood and a rope tied right at the top and to a winch at about a 30 degree angle on the upside of the lean, relative to the lay I wanted parallel to the pavement.
> 
> View attachment 277290
> View attachment 277291
> 
> 
> The stub fell as predicted at first, and then started going towards the driveway about 1/3 of the way down. I don't have any pics of the aftermath because i was mightily p.o.'d



Every tree is different, of course. But if it helps here is a description of the tree that I was trying to turn. It did turn with very little holding wood in an unintended hinge - just not where I wanted it to turn. As aptly put by tramp bushler my tree was a train wreck to begin with. It had only two branches. I estimated one to have 2/3 of the influence on the lean and the other with the remaining 1/3. My goal was to get the tree entirely in the field to the right (bottom of diagram) as I was told that was the tree owner's field and no permission had been sought from the owner of the field on the left (top of diagram). I figured if I could neutralize the 1/3 it would fall on point with the 2/3 which should accomplish my goal. Unfortunately, this meant I had to face cut the strong side and back cut from the weak/injured side of the tree. The face wedge was solid but it looks that I cut it to the edge of the then unknown rotted center (in hindsight I should have examined the center of the face cut but I didn't). I was just finishing my first thinning cut (my second cut) when it let go. Attached is a drawing that will better explain it. When the trunk split, the back side of the second cut became an uneven hinge with the thick side to the left (top of the diagram) and the thin side being to the right. This pulled the tree to the left - backwards of what I was wanting. The jagged line is where the trunk split. The red is the more than anticipated rot. 

If any of you have more advice for me, I would welcome it as well. 

As a somewhat humorous side note, where my tree fell was no big deal after all, as I later learned from the tree owner that his field was actually the one on the left. By then the field on the right was already rooted up pretty fierce from two tractors loading wood and pushing brush piles. Ron







View attachment 277406


----------



## twochains

paccity said:


> ... was not spectacular.



The suspense has grown so much so, that it might as well be scope footage from "the grassy knoll"


----------



## mile9socounty

We want a video!!!


----------



## TreeGuyHR

rwoods said:


> Every tree is different, of course. But if it helps here is a description of the tree that I was trying to turn. It did turn with very little holding wood in an unintended hinge - just not where I wanted it to turn. As aptly put by tramp bushler my tree was a train wreck to begin with. It had only two branches. I estimated one to have 2/3 of the influence on the lean and the other with the remaining 1/3. My goal was to get the tree entirely in the field to the right (bottom of diagram) as I was told that was the tree owner's field and no permission had been sought from the owner of the field on the left (top of diagram). I figured if I could neutralize the 1/3 it would fall on point with the 2/3 which should accomplish my goal. Unfortunately, this meant I had to face cut the strong side and back cut from the weak/injured side of the tree. The face wedge was solid but it looks that I cut it to the edge of the then unknown rotted center (in hindsight I should have examined the center of the face cut but I didn't). I was just finishing my first thinning cut (my second cut) when it let go. Attached is a drawing that will better explain it. When the trunk split, the back side of the second cut became an uneven hinge with the thick side to the left (top of the diagram) and the thin side being to the right. This pulled the tree to the left - backwards of what I was wanting. The jagged line is where the trunk split. The red is the more than anticipated rot.
> 
> If any of you have more advice for me, I would welcome it as well.
> 
> As a somewhat humorous side note, where my tree fell was no big deal after all, as I later learned from the tree owner that his field was actually the one on the left. By then the field on the right was already rooted up pretty fierce from two tractors loading wood and pushing brush piles. Ron
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 277406



Well, you made fewer mistakes than I had! I guess it might have occurred to me to use a drill or increment borer to check such a tree to make sure it went into the right field, instead of the wrong field (which was the right field -- whatever. Sounds like one of my days!

So, I get it that I screwed the pooch with the big pine stub -- but the cracked pine that the logger took down after i hung a cable in it for him worked according to plan -- it must have been the screaming he did at the guy driving the CAT (actually, a John Deer 'dozer) that made it go faster!


----------



## northmanlogging

Sorta kinda related topic, supposedly there is a way to "sound out" hollow spots in a tree before you start cutting on it, no boring necessary. I've only recently read about it but I can see where a guy could maybe hear differences in trunk density from smacking it around with an axe. No Idea how well it works, mayhaps some of the moss backs on here have heard of or witnessed first hand, and can tell us all how not to do it???:msp_confused::confused2::eek2::msp_smile:


----------



## OlympicYJ

northmanlogging said:


> Sorta kinda related topic, supposedly there is a way to "sound out" hollow spots in a tree before you start cutting on it, no boring necessary. I've only recently read about it but I can see where a guy could maybe hear differences in trunk density from smacking it around with an axe. No Idea how well it works, mayhaps some of the moss backs on here have heard of or witnessed first hand, and can tell us all how not to do it???:msp_confused::confused2::eek2::msp_smile:



It does work. Had a cruiser tell me about it one time. If they're pretty hollow you can tell but if theres just a lil rot in the but not so much. From what I gathered it took a lil practice. I guess just whack em with your axe before ya plunge it to see what kinda rot ya have and might be able to develop an ear for it :cool2:

I know it doesn't work on pecker poles... ya hit em and they feel solid till the top breaks out an hits ya on the tin lid... then you feel pretty dense...


----------



## northmanlogging

I'll have to try and remember that, its one of those things that sits in the back of my mind taking up useless space, but oft times forgotten... got a good sized Hemlock job coming up in the spring and there is bound to be a few rotters in the mix... we'll see if I can remember:msp_confused:


----------



## madhatte

paccity said:


>



Uggh, I can smell it from here. Even the chips look nasty.


----------



## TreeGuyHR

northmanlogging said:


> Sorta kinda related topic, supposedly there is a way to "sound out" hollow spots in a tree before you start cutting on it, no boring necessary. I've only recently read about it but I can see where a guy could maybe hear differences in trunk density from smacking it around with an axe. No Idea how well it works, mayhaps some of the moss backs on here have heard of or witnessed first hand, and can tell us all how not to do it???:msp_confused::confused2::eek2::msp_smile:



You definitely need a big hollow. OTH, thick bark can effectively muffle the blow, and you don't here that hollow sound. 

I did a risk assessment of this pine, going so far as to climb it to check out the heart rot in an old lightning scar, but missed the significant decay in the base (no conks). I didn't beat it with the blunt end of an axe, but thi sdecay may not have revealed itself that way, especially because it diminshed rapidly with height (probably brown cubical butt rot (_Phaeolus scwhweinitzii)_The tree was removed because the owner thought that the lean was increasing, which I had mentioned as something to monitor. 

View attachment 277440
View attachment 277441


OTH, (got lots of those), this Doug-fir had multiple white speck-rot conks (_Phellinus pini_), but the decay was limited.

View attachment 277442
View attachment 277443
View attachment 277444


----------



## madhatte

To make matters more frustrating, while the Brown Cubical and White Speck rots often have visible, long-lasting fruiting bodies to help ID them by, which is a bonus, if you're after the early ID of root rots? Not so much. Laminated root rot has essentially no visible fruiting body, and Shoestring rot has a fruiting body that only shows up every couple of years and only sticks around when it bothers to show up at all. Trees infected with these diseases are most easily identified at the stump or by the rootball once they've been blown over, often with no visible symptoms. Whether you're looking at a yard tree or at a disease pocket in a forest, it pays to take the time to autopsy whatever material you have available in order to determine causes of mortality and make sound decisions as to what needs done next. I know of at least one sanitation cut where Laminated root rot was misidentified and the young stand was cut early with no benefit to anything.


----------



## TreeGuyHR

madhatte said:


> To make matters more frustrating, while the Brown Cubical and White Speck rots often have visible, long-lasting fruiting bodies to help ID them by, which is a bonus, if you're after the early ID of root rots? Not so much. Laminated root rot has essentially no visible fruiting body, and Shoestring rot has a fruiting body that only shows up every couple of years and only sticks around when it bothers to show up at all. Trees infected with these diseases are most easily identified at the stump or by the rootball once they've been blown over, often with no visible symptoms. Whether you're looking at a yard tree or at a disease pocket in a forest, it pays to take the time to autopsy whatever material you have available in order to determine causes of mortality and make sound decisions as to what needs done next. I know of at least one sanitation cut where Laminated root rot was misidentified and the young stand was cut early with no benefit to anything.



Yes.

And I know of a certain College in WA state that paid a significant price to some consultants to put together a campus tree health plan, including a schedule for removals. I was invited to put on a workshop for a group of students who wanted to know more about hazard assessment (that we now call risk assessment). As part of that , we checked several of the trees assigned ratings in the plan, and found a poor correlation between what we found and the ratings of the plan -- in BOTH directions (too high and too low. 

This caused a bit of turmoil at the College, and the fur apparently flew. I don't have a good explanation, other than that the people collecting data on the trees (hundreds of trees) may not have followed a consistent sampling protocol, and relied only on crown characteristics (perhaps in a "windshield drive-by) in some cases; leading to completely hollow trees given low ratings and other trees with no defect other than a thin crown assigned high ratings. 

For example, if my memory serves, a cedar in the middle of a parking lot had a moderate rating that had Pileated Woodpecker holes, and about a 10% shell thickness; in another area, a Doug-fir that had been removed had no laminated root rot and firs nearby had high risk ratings for laminated root rot and were scheduled for removal soon (didn't get to examining those). The fir trees were in an area that had recent construction, and we have all seen "crown constructionitis" from soil disturbance. There were root rot pockets on the campus, but that area was apparently not one of them based on what I saw.


----------



## paccity

another stinker today. the rebuild on ol roachy is doing fine,.



and a squirrel met its maker on this one.


----------



## rwoods

And why is that little sign structure still standing???? :msp_smile: Ron


----------



## paccity

rwoods said:


> And why is that little sign structure still standing???? :msp_smile: Ron



cus i missed it .:msp_wink: dented the asphalt good though. which is ok because there re paving it anyway.


----------



## madhatte

paccity said:


> dented the asphalt good though



Which reminds me, I have a question for the group. 

There is an alder a friend wants me to cut from his yard. It's got a pretty heavy lean, but that doesn't really concern me too much since it's leaning where I want it to go, mostly. Problem is, it's leaning out over the driveway, where he's got asphalt over soft-ish soil. If I just flop it down there like a dead fish, it's got a pretty decent chance of leaving a mark. Question is this: If I jump it off the stump as far as I can get it to go (thinking a Humboldt, fairly steep face angle, steeper snipe), how much of the energy that would be directed straight down when it hits can I deflect onto the stump and out into lateral movement? I'm pretty sure the amount will be "non-zero", but I can't really see the math in my head. I'm not at all worried about messing up the grass on the other side since it's just sort of a field that gets mowed sometimes. My only worry is the asphalt, and really, the crown might just bridge it anyway so I may be fartin' in the wind anyway. 

WHAT SAY YE, folks?


----------



## RandyMac

madhatte said:


> Which reminds me, I have a question for the group.
> 
> There is an alder a friend wants me to cut from his yard. It's got a pretty heavy lean, but that doesn't really concern me too much since it's leaning where I want it to go, mostly. Problem is, it's leaning out over the driveway, where he's got asphalt over soft-ish soil. If I just flop it down there like a dead fish, it's got a pretty decent chance of leaving a mark. Question is this: If I jump it off the stump as far as I can get it to go (thinking a Humboldt, fairly steep face angle, steeper snipe), how much of the energy that would be directed straight down when it hits can I deflect onto the stump and out into lateral movement? I'm pretty sure the amount will be "non-zero", but I can't really see the math in my head. I'm not at all worried about messing up the grass on the other side since it's just sort of a field that gets mowed sometimes. My only worry is the asphalt, and really, the crown might just bridge it anyway so I may be fartin' in the wind anyway.
> 
> WHAT SAY YE, folks?



toss a few hippies into the lay.


----------



## forestryworks

RandyMac said:


> toss a few hippies into the lay.



Or old tires.

Either way, don't miss your lay!


----------



## paccity

madhatte said:


> Which reminds me, I have a question for the group.
> 
> There is an alder a friend wants me to cut from his yard. It's got a pretty heavy lean, but that doesn't really concern me too much since it's leaning where I want it to go, mostly. Problem is, it's leaning out over the driveway, where he's got asphalt over soft-ish soil. If I just flop it down there like a dead fish, it's got a pretty decent chance of leaving a mark. Question is this: If I jump it off the stump as far as I can get it to go (thinking a Humboldt, fairly steep face angle, steeper snipe), how much of the energy that would be directed straight down when it hits can I deflect onto the stump and out into lateral movement? I'm pretty sure the amount will be "non-zero", but I can't really see the math in my head. I'm not at all worried about messing up the grass on the other side since it's just sort of a field that gets mowed sometimes. My only worry is the asphalt, and really, the crown might just bridge it anyway so I may be fartin' in the wind anyway.
> 
> WHAT SAY YE, folks?



how big is the crown,? whats the diameter? i would leave it on the stump and transfer most to the crown. might break it , but i don't think your worried about that.


----------



## madhatte

It's a pretty wide crown, being a yard tree and all. Maybe keeping it on the stump is the best thing to do. I still kinda like the idea of just jumping it across the driveway and letting it slip-n-slide down the hill toward the pig pen. Would be a damned sight more dramatic, for sure.

EDIT: pretty sure I could find a few stray hippies lurking around Oly, hmmm...


----------



## RandyMac

You won't want a steep face if you want to jump it.


----------



## madhatte

I know it'll break sooner with a shallower face but oh of course it'll never mind duh.


----------



## TreeGuyHR

paccity said:


> cus i missed it .:msp_wink: dented the asphalt good though. which is ok because there re paving it anyway.



I was wondering about that....

Cool job if you can get it, smashing stuff felling trees! I could be getting some lower bids in if I thought that the owner would be OK with the likely damage -- but I typically assume that they would have a problem with it, which can lead to not getting paid, so I don't structure my bids that way. Maybe I should start asking of they really care about their lawn or paving.:msp_biggrin: (and get it in writing)


----------



## RandyMac

or a very tall stump and a steep face, like a conventional with a snipe, the crown will hit first.


----------



## madhatte

No, shallowerer is more gooderer, leanin' alder, less barber-chairery. This plan cannot fail.


----------



## Gologit

We'll want video, of course.


----------



## RandyMac

If you 'chair it on purpose, there will be less mass to hit the ground.


----------



## madhatte

"All the video fit to post"

Yeh, I'll post it. Not sure when this is going down. Gotta get it on the ground before it leafs out, though, and the colder the day the better. There's two beetle-killed firs that need to go, too, but they're no big deal. Figure to do it all in one go, bump the knots, then Craigslist the rounds as firewood for free cleanup. Burn the debris, drink a cold one, call it a day.


----------



## Hddnis

Hard to say without seeing it, but a big crown can absorb a ton of energy to where the base just lays down. The flip side is that one branch can drill a hole in pavement like a bullet through a pop-tart.

My all time favorite for disipating a falling stick is D. fir branches, nice thick mat of those and you can save a brick driveway.



Mr. HE


----------



## northmanlogging

Use a little kerf dutch on it, maker yer gun cut than have yer slope cut not quite meet it perfectly, leaving an inch or so between the gun cut an the slope. just make sure everything is nice and straightish, On alder this could lead to chairing though, so maybe bore the back cut are coos bay it. should jump right off the stump if done correctly, but you sacrifice some control to get it to jump. but if she's leaning the right way shouldn't be to bad.

Instead of hippies and tires you could just park a couple of vw vans in the way... but only if they have bad paint jobs... advertise free drugs at the local community college, should have plenty of em just lining up...:msp_biggrin:


----------



## paccity

TreeGuyHR said:


> I was wondering about that....
> 
> Cool job if you can get it, smashing stuff felling trees! I could be getting some lower bids in if I thought that the owner would be OK with the likely damage -- but I typically assume that they would have a problem with it, which can lead to not getting paid, so I don't structure my bids that way. Maybe I should start asking of they really care about their lawn or paving.:msp_biggrin: (and get it in writing)


no it's not the norm. it was a thought out a head of time . dump them buckm 24' and let the self loader take care of it. that section of the park is getting a big make over . there all good with it , home town boys in charge.:msp_wink:


----------



## northmanlogging

Haywire said:


> Don't be hatin' on the VWs!



I did say only with bad paint jobs... the ones with flowers and fairys and peace signs on em, painted by someone obviously under the influence of judgement altering chemicals, preferably with the driver still inside...:msp_biggrin:


----------



## madhatte

Hddnis said:


> My all time favorite for disipating a falling stick is D. fir branches, nice thick mat of those and you can save a brick driveway.



Now there's an idea -- drop the firs first, make a bed of the branches, pip pip cheerio and all that crap. I like it.



Haywire said:


> Don't be hatin' on the VWs!



With ya on that. German engineering is weird but cool. I've spent more'n a few hours under the business ends of old bugs and buses.


----------



## mile9socounty

Did someone say beer? I like beer.


----------



## Hddnis

madhatte said:


> Now there's an idea -- drop the firs first, make a bed of the branches, pip pip cheerio and all that crap. I like it.
> 
> 
> 
> With ya on that. German engineering is weird but cool. I've spent more'n a few hours under the business ends of old bugs and buses.





Primary reason to be hatin' in red above.:msp_sneaky:

I grew up with dad's camper bus and super beatle. I can rebuild them in my sleep. I did everything from body work to overhauling everything underneath or inside of them. Parts cost a fortune, were always breaking, and when it was finally running again it was still a gutless wonder.:bang:


On the bed of branches. Criss cross 'em and drop it.
Just don't be hatin' on me too bad come time to clean them up.:msp_biggrin:



Mr. HE


----------



## madhatte

Hddnis said:


> Just don't be hatin' on me too bad come time to clean them up.



You are absolved of all complicity in any messes I make by virtue of the fact that those messes will be made to prevent bigger ones.

As for VW's... no sane human would drive one a those rattletraps if they didn't like wrenchin'. I like wrenchin'.


----------



## northmanlogging

My dad had a dune buggy with some overbuilt engine and dual carbs on giant stacks, seems like every time we took it anywhere it involved an hour of tweeking the carbs welding the frame or replacing suspension parts. but then 70 + on a logging road will do that to most cars...


----------



## madhatte

Drifting corners on gravel is a blast. I remember rocketing up the 1 line out of Kapowsin in the company's Bronco II. Point the wheels where you wanna go, brake in, power out, oops, there goes the yoke on the rear end. Fun is fun.


----------



## ReggieT

paccity said:


> another stinker today. the rebuild on ol roachy is doing fine,.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and a squirrel met its maker on this one.



How did the squirrel perish...tossed from the tree or did the tree fall on him? Just curious...Hell of a Job!


----------



## OlympicYJ

There's a guy down in Centralia or Chehalis. Can't remember which. He does alot of VW resto stuff. Or at least used to. He's the Matco Dealer for GH, Lewis, and Pacific counties, may cover Thurston too but dunno. Don't have his card anymore, just hit him up at a friends shopon his weekly run when I need parts. Last name is Hashagen or some derivative of. If ever needed some VW info or some nice blingy tools he'd be the guy to look up lol I'm sure you could track him down through the dealer network on the Matco website.

Only thing abou VW's that gets me excited is their diesels :msp_biggrin:

Park a TDI under that alder and I'll come help just for the engine!


----------



## paccity

ReggieT said:


> How did the squirrel perish...tossed from the tree or did the tree fall on him? Just curious...Hell of a Job!



looks like the little feller took a ride. was laying in the crown debris. did not look like he got squished. we gave him a decent burial. think he was hibernating up in the top crotches , and was blown out when it hit.


----------



## OlympicYJ

Haywire said:


> 235,000 on my '99 Golf TDI and counting!



What kinda mileage are you gettin on that golf? The old man has about the same miles, maybe a tad more on his 92 dodge CTD. Motor is great, couple of minor things could stand to be fixed but it's mostly the rest of the truck lol


----------



## OlympicYJ

Haywire said:


> In the winter months around 40mpg, during the summer, closer to 45mpg. I have radiator covers on it, still takes about 10 miles of driving to get any heat



Now that's what I need for a commuter!!!! Be worth the extra for the diesel. Read a build about a guy puttin one in a jeep an gettin 25-27 mpg. My jeep takes a lil while to warm up. Even if it's been plugged in but at least the valve clacking doesn't bother me when I start it up after bein on the juice. Probably eased th miles of her pretty good. 277,000 on the 4 banger got it with 185k so almost hit the 100k mark in about 6 years...


----------



## OlympicYJ

Haywire said:


> Nice and torquey too. Pulls a landscape trailer/trailbike with ease.



Heard they were pretty good with towing! The guy with the jeep figured he was pullin 3000#s with the jeep down the freeway! Jeeps aren't exactly light either, nor areodynamic lol


----------



## Hddnis

My grandpa had a Passat (sp) diesel that was fun to drive. Almost no turbo lag and really powerful. Got 43mpg in a car that could carry four adults comfortably. Handling was good, ride was firm and quiet. 



Mr. HE


----------



## s.v tmbrjak

Ok guys enough car talk please. Anyway on that alder just start a small back cut bout 3/4 of your bar width. Pound in wedge just a little. So its snug. Then start do your under cut! Just a lil make sure the tree doesn't wanna go. If you can get your face cut all the way in leave quite a bit of holding wood. Then start feathering each side. When the tree starts to go leave you saw in there and at last minute cut "all" your holding wood. Kinda like a flying dutchman. But you take all your hinge at the last second. Then run like hell. The tree should hit the very bottom of your face cut and shoot strait out a good 10 feet at least. Hope this helps.


----------



## s.v tmbrjak

O ya and this almost never works with a "cal fire hack" style face cut. Use humboldts for everything. And learn to back bar, its alot safer, cuz you'll never get caught on the downhillside of the tree. (cut off far corner, slip and fall.....your dead.) and don't pay attention to these guys telling you "steap face cut" it doesn't matter but it does matter if its too little. keep that in mind



sorry if you already know this stuff. just giving some advice that works for me in commercial timber fallin.


----------



## RandyMac

s.v tmbrjak said:


> O ya and this almost never works with a "cal fire hack" style face cut. Use humboldts for everything. And learn to back bar, its alot safer, cuz you'll never get caught on the downhillside of the tree. (cut off far corner, slip and fall.....your dead.) and don't pay attention to these guys telling you "steap face cut" it doesn't matter but it does matter if its too little. keep that in mind
> 
> 
> 
> sorry if you already know this stuff. just giving some advice that works for me in commercial timber fallin.


----------



## RiverRat2

paccity said:


> how big is the crown,? whats the diameter? i would leave it on the stump and transfer most to the crown. might break it , but i don't think your worried about that.



I like this idea best if the crown has some size to it,,, or not far off the stump just find some suitable padding for the lay, from my experience Alders are notorious for B-chairing with a big head lean,,, be ever vigilant and safe and stuff!!!


----------



## s.v tmbrjak

by doing what i described above will usually prevent barber chair if your doing it right. this is my fav cut when cuttin road trees. its basically a poor mans tree jack. and will work most of the time.


----------



## s.v tmbrjak

RandyMac said:


>



rofl???????????????


----------



## Hddnis

s.v tmbrjak said:


> Ok guys enough car talk please. Anyway on that alder just start a small back cut bout 3/4 of your bar width. Pound in wedge just a little. So its snug. Then start do your under cut! Just a lil make sure the tree doesn't wanna go. If you can get your face cut all the way in leave quite a bit of holding wood. Then start feathering each side. When the tree starts to go leave you saw in there and at last minute cut "all" your holding wood. Kinda like a flying dutchman. But you take all your hinge at the last second. Then run like hell. The tree should hit the very bottom of your face cut and shoot strait out a good 10 feet at least. Hope this helps.




I'm trying to figure out it this is supposed to be funny or not. 

In an attempt to understand I ran it through google translate and got this:

Polish recipe for disaster when cutting a leaning alder. Best served cold with a side of irony at large gatherings of beer swilling loggers.




Mr. HE


----------



## Hddnis

s.v tmbrjak, I'm not looking for a fight at all, but am curious if you have much time falling Alder?

Sounds like you've spent a bit of time in the woods, I'm not questioning that at all. Your advice on the alder will work on a good number of species in a good many situations, so it isn't a bad idea, but I'd strongly caution using that approach on alder. I've had 'em chair and snap on me. I think the tree god's pack with explosives and arm 'em with a hair trigger just to giggle at us.

Anyway, no offense meant, just enjoying talking about killing trees when I don't have any to kill myself ATM.



Mr. HE


----------



## Metals406

s.v tmbrjak said:


> by doing what i described above will usually prevent barber chair if your doing it right. this is my fav cut when cuttin road trees. its basically a poor mans tree jack. and will work most of the time.



How ya doing Scott. opcorn:


----------



## paccity

Metals406 said:


> How ya doing Scott. opcorn:


----------



## paccity

couple more today, and some buckin, chain throwin, even some chokein so the self loader could pull the stems close enough to pic. oh ya, got bit today also.













also just got the contract extended for 8 more fatties. damn winter is supposed to be my slow time, allwell it's more coin.


----------



## RandyMac

Metals406 said:


> How ya doing Scott. opcorn:



Mr. Ceramic Bearing.


----------



## Metals406

Chain bit? Limb bit?


----------



## paccity

Metals406 said:


> Chain bit? Limb bit?



chain, shirt got the worst of it. got sloppy.:msp_mad:


----------



## paccity

i've got some more vids that the park manager took , my brother is coming over tomorrow to help me figure out how to post them properly.


----------



## Metals406

paccity said:


> chain, shirt got the worst of it. got sloppy.:msp_mad:



Could have been worse! It didn't look like Jasha's arm! :jawdrop:


----------



## paccity

or pat's.


----------



## Hddnis

Real glad that it wasn't worse, that is barely a reminder.



Mr. HE


----------



## Metals406

paccity said:


> or pat's.



Yeah, Ol Pat's was nasty too.

I hope I never get bit that bad!


----------



## paccity

Metals406 said:


> Yeah, Ol Pat's was nasty too.
> 
> I hope I never get bit that bad!



what is it with forearms.:msp_confused:


----------



## Metals406

paccity said:


> what is it with forearms.:msp_confused:



Maybe a guy should get some of those forearm chaps?


----------



## madhatte

OlympicYJ said:


> Last name is Hashagen or some derivative of.



Pretty sure I went to high school with his son.



s.v tmbrjak said:


> Ok guys enough car talk please. Anyway on that alder just start a small back cut bout 3/4 of your bar width. Pound in wedge just a little. So its snug. Then start do your under cut! Just a lil make sure the tree doesn't wanna go. If you can get your face cut all the way in leave quite a bit of holding wood. Then start feathering each side. When the tree starts to go leave you saw in there and at last minute cut "all" your holding wood. Kinda like a flying dutchman. But you take all your hinge at the last second. Then run like hell. The tree should hit the very bottom of your face cut and shoot strait out a good 10 feet at least. Hope this helps.



Uh, yeah, not gonna do that. Back lean? Different story. Head lean? That's a recipe for a clobberin'.



paccity said:


> chain, shirt got the worst of it. got sloppy.:msp_mad:



Don't do that! Geeze, man!


----------



## bitzer

Madhatte- humboldt with a snipe. Not a real steep humboldt. Think getting the whole stem to lay out at the same time. Distributes all the weight across the entire surface of the tree. Steep humboldt and its going butt down first. Conventional and its top first. You want to get that thing nearly parallel before she lays. Nip out the heart wood of the face and rip er off the stump. My guess is that alder cuts alot like some of the speices that chair around here. I've laid quite a few over pavement and haven't effd anything up yet. Yet is key. 

On sounding trees- I do it every day.

Paccity- what do you do with that wood? Nice work! Looks like fun. 

Samlock- pulpin aint easy, looks good though. Cutting an MFL right now. Too much pulp for handcutting.


----------



## madhatte

bitzer said:


> You want to get that thing nearly parallel before she lays. Nip out the heart wood of the face and rip er off the stump. My guess is that alder cuts alot like some of the speices that chair around here. I've laid quite a few over pavement and haven't effd anything up yet. Yet is key.



Sound advice. If I'm gonna gut it, I'm not gonna want to nip the corners. Haven't done it that way before but I'm game.


----------



## bitzer

madhatte said:


> Sound advice. If I'm gonna gut it, I'm not gonna want to nip the corners. Haven't done it that way before but I'm game.



I never nip corners unless I'm cutting them off for dutchmans. I really don't get the point. The corners are going to have more strength being green. The highest pressure when the face closes is in the heart. Its all about continous movement through the face. Stalling causes the split or chair. Let us know how it goes.


----------



## paccity

bitzer said:


> Madhatte- humboldt with a snipe. Not a real steep humboldt. Think getting the whole stem to lay out at the same time. Distributes all the weight across the entire surface of the tree. Steep humboldt and its going butt down first. Conventional and its top first. You want to get that thing nearly parallel before she lays. Nip out the heart wood of the face and rip er off the stump. My guess is that alder cuts alot like some of the speices that chair around here. I've laid quite a few over pavement and haven't effd anything up yet. Yet is key.
> 
> On sounding trees- I do it every day.
> 
> Paccity- what do you do with that wood? Nice work! Looks like fun.
> 
> Samlock- pulpin aint easy, looks good though. Cutting an MFL right now. Too much pulp for handcutting.



thanks bitzer. going for pulp. no one want's it for anything else.




this one slapped flat, but when there this big they tend to make a dent.


----------



## bitzer

paccity said:


> thanks bitzer. going for pulp. no one want's it for anything else.
> 
> 
> 
> this one slapped flat, but when there this big they tend to make a dent.



Yeah theres not much you can do about those. I'm not even sure they use it for pulp up here. My pulp mill doesn't anyway. I think someone _might_ saw it up for pallet wood. On my mill's price sheet they list it as-cull $40/mbf


----------



## OlympicYJ

madhatte said:


> Pretty sure I went to high school with his son.



Thought he has younger kids.... I know I know sounds like I'm pokin fun at yer age...


----------



## madhatte

bitzer said:


> I never nip corners unless I'm cutting them off for dutchmans. I really don't get the point. The corners are going to have more strength being green. The highest pressure when the face closes is in the heart. Its all about continous movement through the face. Stalling causes the split or chair. Let us know how it goes.



I had sort of figured on some variation of a Coos Bay but this seems a good opportunity to try something new. I usually nip the corners doing Coos Bays on alders -- seems to make 'em go over faster so less time to chair. I've cut more stems of alder than I have anything else, I think, but they're always such scraggly little things that the real challenge is in not getting whipped. I'd rather cut fir any day.




OlympicYJ said:


> Thought he has younger kids.... I know I know sounds like I'm pokin fun at yer age...



Either way, I went to school with a Jay H. Good guy, haven't seen him in years.


----------



## OlympicYJ

madhatte said:


> Either way, I went to school with a Jay H. Good guy, haven't seen him in years.



That's the guy! Couldn't quite remember his first name off the top of my noggin. He's a Matco dealer now. Seems like a pretty decent guy. Was talkin up some tool I was lookin at an said he used it all the time restoring VWs.

It is a very small world... Shoot we probably know some of the same people. We might of even met at a SW SAF chapter meeting and didn't know it! lol


----------



## madhatte

OlympicYJ said:


> We might of even met at a SW SAF chapter meeting and didn't know it! lol



Or, more likely, passed on a trail in Capitol Forest.


----------



## OlympicYJ

Likely not. Hardley ever get up into the Capitol Forest. Especially now that you have to have the discover pass.


----------



## madhatte

OlympicYJ said:


> Likely not. Hardley ever get up into the Capitol Forest. Especially now that you have to have the discover pass.



Some of my favorite shootin' spots are up in there. Plus, permanent free veteran pass and all (got one for Fed land too).


----------



## TreeGuyHR

bitzer said:


> Madhatte- humboldt with a snipe. Not a real steep humboldt. Think getting the whole stem to lay out at the same time. Distributes all the weight across the entire surface of the tree. Steep humboldt and its going butt down first. Conventional and its top first. You want to get that thing nearly parallel before she lays. Nip out the heart wood of the face and rip er off the stump. My guess is that alder cuts alot like some of the speices that chair around here. I've laid quite a few over pavement and haven't effd anything up yet. Yet is key.
> 
> On sounding trees- I do it every day.
> 
> Paccity- what do you do with that wood? Nice work! Looks like fun.
> 
> Samlock- pulpin aint easy, looks good though. Cutting an MFL right now. Too much pulp for handcutting.



I am enjoying this conversation. The attached pics below are of a big dying hemlock that a couple guys (unnamed) used to demo "hazard tree falling" at an ISA PNW conference. Rather than admit they screwed up (which I, and you guys here know they did, in more ways than one) they insisted to the credulous crowd around the stump that it was "just right". This was even ignoring that fact that they had to put two more people on the rope (which was strung through several blocks) to pull the tree over!. :bang:

Maybe this one should be called the "two tiered above and below the face back-cut"?

View attachment 277806
View attachment 277807
View attachment 277808



Kind of reminds me of the old joke:

Question:

What is an expert?

Answer:

A little drip.


----------



## OlympicYJ

madhatte said:


> Some of my favorite shootin' spots are up in there. Plus, permanent free veteran pass and all (got one for Fed land too).



Sigh... I be a poor popper... haha actually unwilling to pay the state more money. That's a whole nother animal lol I've never shot up there. Some of the times I've been up there were a few too many people. Looks like some good shootin spots though.


----------



## Metals406

bitzer said:


> Yeah theres not much you can do about those. I'm not even sure they use it for pulp up here. My pulp mill doesn't anyway. I think someone _might_ saw it up for pallet wood. On my mill's price sheet they list it as-cull $40/mbf



$40 bucks a thousand? Not even worth starting the saw.

I've seen CW used here for pallets and trailer decking (if you can keep the timber bind to a min).

Word tell is they're buying it for trailer decking and rig mats in ND. Not sure what a guy gets fer it?


----------



## OlympicYJ

Cottonwood works pretty good for sideboards on dumptrucks too. Most around here like spruce and DF. My uncle had my dad mill some out of cottonwood cause he had it sittin around. Said if he hit it just a little at a time would get wore off and it was decently light after being cured.


----------



## paccity

the last section we did went for lumber. this time pulp . he's making something off it, we bid on dropping them chipping the 20" and smaller the park keeps the chips and the selfloader gets what he can. at least we get to do it in the winter as there not so heavy and don't stink quite so much.


----------



## RiverRat2

TreeGuyHR said:


> I am enjoying this conversation. The attached pics below are of a big dying hemlock that a couple guys (unnamed) used to demo "hazard tree falling" at an ISA PNW conference. Rather than admit they screwed up (which I, and you guys here know they did, in more ways than one) they insisted to the credulous crowd around the stump that it was "just right". This was even ignoring that fact that they had to put two more people on the rope (which was strung through several blocks) to pull the tree over!. :bang:
> 
> Maybe this one should be called the "two tiered above and below the face back-cut"?
> 
> Kind of reminds me of the old joke:
> 
> Question:
> 
> What is an expert?
> 
> Answer:
> 
> A little drip.



Expert = Ex is a has been, xpert= a drip under pressure,,,, Yeah they messed up!!!!


----------



## s.v tmbrjak

I do apologize I have never fallen alder.


----------



## TreeGuyHR

I count four ways that the faller messed up on the hemlock (not including using a saw with too small a bar -- that shouldn't have been a big deal, although I would have used a bigger bar).


----------



## Hddnis

TreeGuyHR said:


> I count four ways that the faller messed up on the hemlock (not including using a saw with too small a bar -- that shouldn't have been a big deal, although I would have used a bigger bar).





I think for that guy the easiest thing to correct would be bar length; all that would take is some money. :hmm3grin2orange:



Mr. HE


----------



## madhatte

TreeGuyHR said:


> I count four ways that the faller messed up on the hemlock (not including using a saw with too small a bar -- that shouldn't have been a big deal, although I would have used a bigger bar).



Lessee, I'm sure I'll miss something.

I see: face WAY too shallow (they had to lift the whole damn tree to get it to go over), unnecessary split-level cut (probably to get a wedge in each side which is unnecessary but harmless), way too big of forces to want to release with a trigger (thing had to be practically spring-poled to go over that way), falling well against the limb weight under all that external tension, and although I didn't get to see them actually cutting it, I'll bet that this was at least 75% back-bar work when it didn't need to be. The hinge was a bit thin, too. I'm guessing that for demonstration they were emphasizing exact percentages of this cut and that, and the "safety" of split cuts and releases, and that this was the "safe" way they want to preach. Not my tree, not my place to criticize, but from here, I'd guess that a swing dutchman or a siswheel would have done the same thing with a lot less work and no climbing.


----------



## TreeGuyHR

madhatte said:


> Lessee, I'm sure I'll miss something.
> 
> I see: face WAY too shallow (they had to lift the whole damn tree to get it to go over), unnecessary split-level cut (probably to get a wedge in each side which is unnecessary but harmless), way too big of forces to want to release with a trigger (thing had to be practically spring-poled to go over that way), falling well against the limb weight under all that external tension, and although I didn't get to see them actually cutting it, I'll bet that this was at least 75% back-bar work when it didn't need to be. The hinge was a bit thin, too. I'm guessing that for demonstration they were emphasizing exact percentages of this cut and that, and the "safety" of split cuts and releases, and that this was the "safe" way they want to preach. Not my tree, not my place to criticize, but from here, I'd guess that a swing dutchman or a siswheel would have done the same thing with a lot less work and no climbing.



Check on the shallow face, thin hinge.

The split level cut seemed like an accident (or poor technique) to me, as was:

the back cut only slightly above the face on one side;
the back cut below the face on the other side;
the back cut sloping up to the face cut.

What you couldn't see in addition to the lettering on the white sign ("Demonstration Tree") was that they allowed the crowd too close -- given that they nearly cut all their holding wood off, there was a chance it could have fallen sideways! 

They used a back strap to demo avoiding a barber chair (which actually wasn't likely IMHO, as the tree was near vertical and fairly balanced in the crown)
as well as to talk about how it puts the faller farther away from the tree as he is cutting the last of the wood before it falls, in case dead bits break off or the butt does something unexpected. That part was reasonable.

They also said that rigging it instead of using wedges to send it over was safer, because the shock of pounding the wedges could also lead to stuff breaking off while you are next to the tree. The rope did give a nice smooth pull, because they had it through three blocks and held the slack with a prusik, so as not to rock the tree. Again, a good idea -- I certainly wouldn't have bothered with either the back-strap or rigging the tree, but I suppose we were to picture the tree as long dead and fragile (in fact, it still had a little green left -- died of root rot; you can see some stained wood in the stump).

I think the thing I objected to (yes, I opened my mouth, and the guys doing the demo seemed a bit defensive here) was the height of the back-cut. I think that they should have admitted they made a mistake: "yea, could have been a bit higher, that adds safety in that the butt is less likely to slide back at the faller, and hmmm... would have been easier to pull the tree over". 

But they didn't.

With the rope tensioned, the tree actually _had _a good chance of sliding back when the faller cut the back-strap.


----------



## madhatte

TreeGuyHR said:


> died of root rot; you can see some stained wood in the stump



Saw that, and wondered, as always: did it die of root rot, or was the root rot merely present when it died? Is there a context for a root rot center nearby? How long has the tree been there, and how long since it had neighbors? Is this a historically forested site?


----------



## Samlock

bitzer said:


> I never nip corners unless I'm cutting them off for dutchmans. I really don't get the point. The corners are going to have more strength being green. The highest pressure when the face closes is in the heart.



When you cut soft wood with shallow rooting, like spruce, and keep your stumps low, you might want to shave the corners off for avoiding an involuntary siswheel effect.


----------



## floyd

I used to sell cottonwood to Ft Vancouver Plywood.


----------



## Metals406

I cut a tree once. . .



:msp_scared:


----------



## Jacob J.

floyd said:


> I used to sell cottonwood to Ft Vancouver Plywood.



Roseburg Lumber is peeling Cottonwood for filler in plywood and laminates.


----------



## floyd

I was hauling 3 log loads.On a 16' 5th wheel.


----------



## TreeGuyHR

madhatte said:


> Saw that, and wondered, as always: did it die of root rot, or was the root rot merely present when it died? Is there a context for a root rot center nearby? How long has the tree been there, and how long since it had neighbors? Is this a historically forested site?



It's in the Seattle area in a park. A few years before, the top foot or so of soil was removed and replaced, because it was contaminated by an old smelter. Several other large trees have declined and some have been removed. A buffer was left around some of the more significant trees but not others. 

Think that had something to do with it?


----------



## OlympicYJ

TreeGuyHR said:


> It's in the Seattle area in a park. A few years before, the top foot or so of soil was removed and replaced, because it was contaminated by an old smelter. Several other large trees have declined and some have been removed. A buffer was left around some of the more significant trees but not others.
> 
> Think that had something to do with it?



I would venture a guess that it did. Any idea what kind of smelter?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


----------



## TreeGuyHR

OlympicYJ said:


> I would venture a guess that it did. Any idea what kind of smelter?
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2



I believe it was an aluminum smelter. However, the amount of contamination apparently did not affect the trees much. The concern was people using the park being exposed to the contaminated soil. 

I am not sure how it was removed. Found some info:

Metro Parks Tacoma > Point Defiance Park

Apparently, work is ongoing and started in 2008 (the ISA PNW conference was in 2010). Main contaminants are arsenic and lead, from a plume that drifted from the defunct ASARCO plant (removed?) across the water on the Tacoma waterfront.


----------



## OlympicYJ

Ah gotcha! Well Al can mess with all kinds of soil properties and isn't good for trees. But thinking about it, the Al wouldn't cause the root rot directly. It could have weakened the tree and exacerbate an underlying condition. If they said the contamination wasn't high enough it probably wasn't.


----------



## floyd

I would hazzard a guess removing a foot of soil will have consequences on a tree. Sounds like not enough root to feed the crown.


----------



## Hddnis

A good ground cover, such as grass, would do more to protect the public using the park than just about any other remediation. Simply moving the soil risks significant air contamination, even with extensive dust control measures. Sounds like the typical "We have a problem!" answered by "I know, we have to throw some money at it! Lets haul all the bad stuff away!" followed by "Hi, I'm an engineer and I could come up with a plan to move that nasty dirt, throw some money my way." and then we hear "I'm a big time public works contractor and I have the expertise to move that awful nasty dirt for you at taxpayer expense."

Vary rarely is moving contaminated soil a good solution when it isn't killing vegitation or wildlife, sometimes even if it is leaving it alone is best. If people using the park is a danger than you close the park until it is safe, which regardless of the contamination will occur in time. But, that is the cheap and common sense way, can't have that spoiling the economy.




Mr. HE


----------



## Metals406

Haywire said:


> Pics?



Guess who might get to do some falling up Haywire Gulch in a week or so? :msp_biggrin:


----------



## OlympicYJ

floyd said:


> I would hazzard a guess removing a foot of soil will have consequences on a tree. Sounds like not enough root to feed the crown.



It would def help to know if soil were removed around the particular tree in question. You are right if the trees roots were damaged it would weaken it and allow fungus to go to work on it. Also could create an excellent vector for the fungus too.


----------



## Joe46

As an aside I grew up playing on dirt that was/is contaminated by the Asarco Mill I'm 66 and still doing OK. It was a superfund cleanup site. Tax dollars at work and all that:bang:


----------



## OlympicYJ

They've got some big Superfund cleanups over in Montana. Saw the one by Deerlodge/Anaconda.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


----------



## paccity

fallowed the 1 load to the mill ,1 tree 1 load.


----------



## paccity

the last in this section will dump Monday.


----------



## Metals406

Haywire said:


> Dang! Where?



Not sure on specifics yet. . . I reckon it's right near you though. I'll know more by Tuesday or Wednesday.

Sounds like work would go down Monday the 18th.

Ron says he's gonna fall it all. . . But I'm gonna goad him into let'n me do some. LOL

If not, I'll skid and buck, it's all good. :msp_biggrin:

I'll call you and you can come out and meet Ron.


----------



## northmanlogging

just curious but did yer self loader guy have much trouble getting them on the truck? Them cotton woods can be heavy... got one on coming up that just might be a bit bigger then those, not even sure the skidder can move it...


----------



## Metals406

paccity said:


> fallowed the 1 load to the mill ,1 tree 1 load.



Share some of that blue sky would ya!


----------



## paccity

northmanlogging said:


> just curious but did yer self loader guy have much trouble getting them on the truck? Them cotton woods can be heavy... got one on coming up that just might be a bit bigger then those, not even sure the skidder can move it...



these where 25's had to work them up. we had to yard them closer to the truck so he could pic them, cable choked them and used 20' chains and his loader to pull alittle at a time . the 70" plus ones i bucked to 10's and used smalls to bunk them, had to chain them because the grapple won't hold. there not to bad this time of year, if you wait till spring they will be like lead.


----------



## paccity

Metals406 said:


> Share some of that blue sky would ya!



ya , that's the last part of the day. did not last.


----------



## madhatte

floyd said:


> I would hazzard a guess removing a foot of soil will have consequences on a tree. Sounds like not enough root to feed the crown.



Agreed. By this logic, then, the root rot evidence was coincidental and the poor vigor of the tree was due to mechanical root damage. See, this is why I asked. Blaming root rot for every sick tree is a policy I've seen before. However, I have also seen the opposite -- on one contract, I was asked to change any instance of damage code "_Armillaria_" to "Bear" because the ownership was flat unwilling to deal with root rot. Pretty sure "Bear" then became secret code for "if we ever have the time and money to study it..."


----------



## northmanlogging

paccity said:


> these where 25's had to work them up. we had to yard them closer to the truck so he could pic them, cable choked them and used 20' chains and his loader to pull alittle at a time . the 70" plus ones i bucked to 10's and used smalls to bunk them, had to chain them because the grapple won't hold. there not to bad this time of year, if you wait till spring they will be like lead.



Because of its position it will be the last tree I dump on this job so it could be pushed out to mid-late summer... may or may not help??? its an odd one cause its up on a steep hill and relatively dry... most of the cotton woods round here like their feet a bit wet, but its pushing 200' tall, easily 5' at the stump and almost perfectly straight... just a shame its not worth much cept maybe as a pealer.


----------



## bitzer

[video=youtube;Q3lDcz9lLxU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3lDcz9lLxU[/video]

The latest job. Timber is ok. Nuthin special. Usually I find the best timber in the kettle moraine, but this must have been heavily cut and pastured a long time ago. This job is borderline cable skidder country. A lot of the kettle moraine gets steeper and the hills get longer. There are enough flat ridges and hips to get up and down. The land formations are remanants from glacial deposits.










Porcupine!




View attachment 278589

View attachment 278590

View attachment 278591


----------



## northmanlogging

Am I seeing splinter stuffed into the bark of the other tree? If so B$^%h'n:cool2:


----------



## tramp bushler

Looks good Bitzer. 
Haven't seen OT or Mingo on here lately. Anyone seen them around. They doing OK?


----------



## Samlock

Glen, mingo keeps posting great logging pictures to his thread "562". Just scroll down a bit.


----------



## ROME K/G

*felling*

Pics cutting some dead ash down with my 090.


----------



## forestryworks

ROME/KG said:


> Pics cutting some dead ash down with my 090.



Looks like a dutchman (mismatch) in the face cut. That intentional? If not, clean out the face better next time. 

Otherwise, good job.


----------



## ROME K/G

*Felling*

Ya lol i cut the bottom first instead of the top notch, i couldnt see how far i cut through. They snap off pretty clean when they go and this was a "leaner" so i plunge cut it then then cut the outside to drop it.


----------



## Metals406

forestryworks said:


> Looks like a dutchman (mismatch) in the face cut. That intentional? If not, clean out the face better next time.
> 
> Otherwise, good job.



Dammit Jameson! I wanted to be the one to point that out!


----------



## Metals406

ROME/KG said:


> Pics cutting some dead ash down with my 090.



That's some nice looking wood, and a nice looking chunk of iron!


----------



## Rounder

Nice pics Bob, seeing that fog just makes me shiver.....Keep that humidity over there. We had a spell of that....my counter iced, my tape iced, saw iced......no thanks!


----------



## bitzer

northmanlogging said:


> Am I seeing splinter stuffed into the bark of the other tree? If so B$^%h'n:cool2:



Yep! Little hard maples like to blow up like that when you smash em. I always backbar these when I cut em off. Most of the splinters throw away from you.


----------



## bitzer

Rounder said:


> Nice pics Bob, seeing that fog just makes me shiver.....Keep that humidity over there. We had a spell of that....my counter iced, my tape iced, saw iced......no thanks!



Thanks Sam! We just can't get a steady weather pattern over here. We'll get a day in the 50s and rain, next day 30s and snow, then the next day 10 degrees and 20 below with the wind chill. We've had four of these brutal cycles this winter. Really tough on the body. Just can't get used to anything.


----------



## bitzer

ROME/KG said:


> Ya lol i cut the bottom first instead of the top notch, i couldnt see how far i cut through. They snap off pretty clean when they go and this was a "leaner" so i plunge cut it then then cut the outside to drop it.



Ash like to chair so if you bypass anything, make sure you cut it off!


----------



## paccity

no trees dropped yesterday spent the day bucking and loading. northman , if the stink your cutting is this big your self loader might need an assist.


----------



## paccity

this one is the last for this bid. had to top it out yesterday because of some clearance issues.


----------



## northmanlogging

there right in there, gonna have to think on the assist a bit... just have the skidder, a wore out old tractor, and the gyppo yarder...


----------



## Joe46

Nice size Cottonwood. Stuff that big actually makes pretty good firewood.


----------



## northmanlogging

Joe46 said:


> Nice size Cottonwood. Stuff that big actually makes pretty good firewood.



Don't care how big the cotton wood is its not worth the effort for fire wood. Its a pain in the richard to split, takes to long too dry out, burns to fast once it is dry, stinks up the whole house, and causes all kinds of respiratory issues in my clan... (we burned acres of it when we first moved out here... didn't know better...)

Did hear of a guy round these parts that would kiln dry it and sell it by the "condo" cord in Seattle and Bellevue, for $90. a wheelbarrow load called it High Mountain Alder... dumb yuppies ate it up


----------



## Samlock

ROME/KG said:


>



I have a pard here who also prefers fur hat over hard hat as the safety headware, on the grounds of the fact that a helmet did not survive fall from the tower, while a fur hat remained intact.


----------



## Metals406

Samlock said:


> I have a pard here who also prefers fur hat over hard hat as the safety headware, on the grounds of the fact that a helmet did not survive fall from the tower, while a fur hat remained intact.


----------



## Rounder

bitzer said:


> Thanks Sam! We just can't get a steady weather pattern over here. We'll get a day in the 50s and rain, next day 30s and snow, then the next day 10 degrees and 20 below with the wind chill. We've had four of these brutal cycles this winter. Really tough on the body. Just can't get used to anything.



Yeah, seems like I feel a lot more run down when the weather does that ####. That, and you're always dressed wrong.....I've got a hell of a wardrobe assembly in the back of the rig lately. Never do seem to have the right pieces on when I'm 1000 feet below it though!

Stay busy pard - Sam


----------



## bitzer

Rounder said:


> Yeah, seems like I feel a lot more run down when the weather does that ####. That, and you're always dressed wrong.....I've got a hell of a wardrobe assembly in the back of the rig lately. Never do seem to have the right pieces on when I'm 1000 feet below it though!
> 
> Stay busy pard - Sam



Yep, full change of clothes, extra socks, shirts, gloves, hats, wind breaker, waterproof pants and coat, on and on all in the back seat. So much more #### to pack and get ready. Over and over again. Its not even the cold that bugs me. Just staying dry is a #####. 

You guys shut down much for spring? Here it depends on how much snow/moisture we have and how quick it dries up. Last year I cut in every month of the year. Break up only lasted a few weeks. Other years its been months.


----------



## 056 kid

Thrift shop wool is your friend!


----------



## Metals406

Yup, Ol Ron wears wool all winter and doesn't ever get cold, even if he's a bit wet. 

My brother used to wear woolies (wool pants) skiing on the fancy mountain. . . Boy would he get some stares from the richies.


----------



## Rounder

Bob, looks like we'll work ourselves out of the job right about break-up. Hopefully get a month down to catch up on a year's worth of #### I've been putting off. Got a full schedule as soon as we get back from break-up......3 more yarders being put together at the shop


----------



## bitzer

Rounder said:


> Bob, looks like we'll work ourselves out of the job right about break-up. Hopefully get a month down to catch up on a year's worth of #### I've been putting off. Got a full schedule as soon as we get back from break-up......3 more yarders being put together at the shop



Yeah I've got about a dozen rocked chains to grind, stuff to fix, so on and so forth. I'll probably talk the forester into letting me cut a high ground job that will dry up fast. Maybe just cut a day or two a week to stay sharp. Other than that its odd jobs to keep the cash rolling until hammer down again. We've got a ####load of moisture in the ground this winter. I sure hope we get a spring like last year. 

I'm seriously thinking about getting a crew together. Now that I've got some production time under my belt and I know I can make decent alone, I'm thinkin more. Its just finding the right guys that will be the #####. Ones that can make me money. Theres so much damn wood to cut up here its not even funny.


----------



## 056 kid

056 kid said:


> Thrift shop wool is your friend!



Picked up 2 100% merino wool sweaters today at goodwill one light and one medium weight. Total of 7 and some change


----------



## Hddnis

056 kid said:


> Picked up 2 100% merino wool sweaters today at goodwill one light and one medium weight. Total of 7 and some change





I saw some at Macy's today on clearance that were only about $8 each. 90% off. A fellow could almost get fancy new duds dirty at that price.




Mr. HE


----------



## 056 kid

Sweet baby Jesus thats a steal!


----------



## tramp bushler

Ya Bitzer ; u may want to start with one guy, if you can find either a real good operator or an even better Faller that can get lots of wood on the ground that can be logged and NOT GET HURT! !! .


----------



## Gologit

bitzer said:


> I'm seriously thinking about getting a crew together. Now that I've got some production time under my belt and I know I can make decent alone, I'm thinkin more. Its just finding the right guys that will be the #####. Ones that can make me money. Theres so much damn wood to cut up here its not even funny.



Good luck to you, Bob. Getting, and keeping, a good crew is always one of the major challenges in this business.


----------



## Rounder

Always nice when you get a good, easy strip on Friday. Nice scenery.

Hope you all had a good, safe week - Sam

View attachment 279436

View attachment 279437

View attachment 279438


----------



## northmanlogging

Hel there mostly on the ground, just need a little tickle... whats take'n ya so long?:msp_biggrin:


----------



## Metals406

A little video the other day for Rick to show him how his saw does in Montana. And I got to kill carpenter ants. :msp_w00t:

It's fun now, it's gonna be super fun when it breaks in!

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/iNkkTbJUHbg?list=UU8PKPdr2q3TVxyCzuEhaN7w" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


----------



## Metals406

Rounder said:


> Always nice when you get a good, easy strip on Friday. Nice scenery.
> 
> Hope you all had a good, safe week - Sam
> 
> View attachment 279436
> 
> View attachment 279437
> 
> View attachment 279438



Well hell Sam! Somebody already done cut that set before ya got there!


----------



## Samlock

Metals406 said:


> A little video the other day for Rick to show him how his saw does in Montana. And I got to kill carpenter ants. :msp_w00t:
> 
> It's fun now, it's gonna be super fun when it breaks in!
> 
> <iframe width="853" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/iNkkTbJUHbg?list=UU8PKPdr2q3TVxyCzuEhaN7w" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



An artistic collage falling video - something I haven't seen around here before. Class!

That runs a lot stronger than my tiny one. I wish your shop located a bit closer. Thirstiness is bad news though - a tank of my lightly stimulated 346 lasts 50 - 55 minutes. If it gets any shorter than that, you'll need two saws that you'll fill up at once and run empty in a row.


----------



## Metals406

Samlock said:


> An artistic collage falling video - something I haven't seen around here before. Class!
> 
> That runs a lot stronger than my tiny one. I wish your shop located a bit closer. Thirstiness is bad news though - a tank of my lightly stimulated 346 lasts 50 - 55 minutes. If it gets any shorter than that, you'll need two saws that you'll fill up at once and run empty in a row.



Sam, I wouldn't say it's overly thirsty.

I'll keep track of gas when I'm out falling some timber with it.


----------



## Samlock

Metals406 said:


> Sam, I wouldn't say it's overly thirsty.
> 
> I'll keep track of gas when I'm out falling some timber with it.



Yeah, I may have a drunkfish pulp saw. You'll know how is it as soon as you run a full tank through it.


----------



## Metals406

Haywire said:


> She goes pretty good there, Nate!:msp_thumbup:



It's a fun little bugger. . . I hardly know I'm holding it compared to a 66!


----------



## tramp bushler

Hey Nate. Cool vids. I had to stop at the knives. ( limited time waiting for the asprin to take affect. ) . . The 346 Husky is a Great saw, its biggest problem is getting enough oil pumped. . If you need to see how it does limbing and topping / blocking down Sitka Spruce, just send it up this summer. I':msp_thumbup:ll give a full report. 

You must be a Firewood snob. That burned blow down patch would be ideal for a 4 Wheeler and trailer. . And ideal for that 346 . 8' for the poles 4' for the stuff over 60# . Canadian pulp hook. 2 cord a day avg for a guy working alone.


----------



## Metals406

tramp bushler said:


> Hey Nate. Cool vids. I had to stop at the knives. ( limited time waiting for the asprin to take affect. ) . . The 346 Husky is a Great saw, its biggest problem is getting enough oil pumped. . If you need to see how it does limbing and topping / blocking down Sitka Spruce, just send it up this summer. I':msp_thumbup:ll give a full report.
> 
> You must be a Firewood snob. That burned blow down patch would be ideal for a 4 Wheeler and trailer. . And ideal for that 346 . 8' for the poles 4' for the stuff over 60# . Canadian pulp hook. 2 cord a day avg for a guy working alone.



I did take note of the oiler thing. . . I may modify it if need be.

And no, I'm not a firewood snob! I'll cut wood down to 1"-2" diameter! 

Anything you saw in the video is old and punky so I just leave it to rot. You should see how clean I keep this property as far as blow-down. Over the last 8 years I've worked perty hard at maintaining a clean understory.


----------



## Metals406

Haywire said:


> She goes pretty good there, Nate!:msp_thumbup:



John, sounds like machines get mobed up there Monday. I'll give ya a ring and let you know where it's at, and you can come say hi.


----------



## hammerlogging

Samlock said:


> Yeah, I may have a drunkfish pulp saw. You'll know how is it as soon as you run a full tank through it.



jumper jugs will free you. with my 660 I carry a gatorade jug for gas, its maybe 16 oz,, with a string around it, a loop midway to clip to a carabiner to my tool belt, then a 8 oz. or so juice bottle for bar oil. really don't even notice it and I can get far further from my gas can and don't have to control my activities based on proximity to fuel nearly as much. 

for good measure:

View attachment 279608


don't know if I ever posted this, just another quick pic from some time past.


----------



## paccity

the last for now of these stinkers. the truckdriver screwed him self buy not leaving enough bunk logs. still working on the vids.


----------



## bitzer

Tramp- Yeah I'm really looking for an operator. I got into this buisness to cut and I'll be damned if I sit in a machine all day for now. In ten years from now I may change my tune though! It would be nice to have two machines going and two or three cutters. Time will tell.

Bob- That is the hard part. Finding good help. I've already had my share of farmers and yokels step up. Have not had anyone on the job as of yet though. Not to be a judge of character, but when a guy shows up you can usually tell right off the bat if hes got anything. 

Sam- That is some nice scenery. I always did like the views out that way. 

Hammer- nice pic and thanks for putting me onto that juimper jug idea a couple of years ago. I've got 3 stainless steel bottles (the ones meant for water) holding my fuel, oil, and water. I've had the same ones for well over a year now and the plastic caps have not deteriorated. The fuel and oil bottles hold a full tanks worth. They are roped together and snapped to my wedge belt with a carabiner. Water has a seperate snap. I probably have to move my jugs 2-3 times in the course of a morning instead of dragging them all over hell like I used to.


----------



## tramp bushler

The business part is the hardest part for me. Then wrench turning. I do fine operating. But its only fun when I'm already tired. Being dead beat makes operating a treat. But its not my idea of the greatest thing in the woods. 
Some guys would give their left nut to get their butt on a machine.


----------



## forestryworks

Metals406 said:


> Over the last 8 years I've worked perty hard at maintaining a *diverse* understory.



Fixed it :msp_biggrin:






Get one of these and work smarter, not harder.


----------



## Gologit

I kind of favor this approach....


Heli-Torch.mov - YouTube


----------



## slowp

Gologit said:


> I kind of favor this approach....
> 
> 
> Heli-Torch.mov - YouTube



But, but I told you the story about the helicopter that broke down right when the steepest part of the unit was next, and about how people had to light it, and about the rock that hit a lighter in the back...and the 30 hour shift...

For flat ground, the Apache Sitgreaves Forest had their "Chariot of Fire" which was a little trailer that shot out flame from either side and was pulled by an ATV. Their original prototype burned up on its trial run along with the ATV. 

Be there any ping pong ball videos out there???


----------



## forestryworks

Gologit said:


> I kind of favor this approach....
> 
> 
> Heli-Torch.mov - YouTube



Saw one of those in action once, pretty neat. Excellent for huge rx burns.



slowp said:


> Be there any ping pong ball videos out there???



An excellent rx burn documentary filmed in the Everglades of Florida. I believe they used the ping pong balls you mentioned. 2:20 mark if I remember...

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Y61hIWot3m4?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


----------



## northmanlogging

You fs kids get all the cool tools, where can I get one of them launchers... I promise I'll only use it on slash piles, and camp fires...


----------



## bitzer

tramp bushler said:


> The business part is the hardest part for me. Then wrench turning. I do fine operating. But its only fun when I'm already tired. Being dead beat makes operating a treat. But its not my idea of the greatest thing in the woods.
> Some guys would give their left nut to get their butt on a machine.



Yep, thats what I need. I will probably end up finding a guy who knows how to run excavators and backhoes. If I lived a few hours of north of me I would have less of a problem finding guys with woods experience. Training someone might be better for me in some ways. At least he would be doing it the way I want for now. Finding a guy who is not going to beat the crap out of my machine is going to be the toughest part I think. I bet its really easy to put someone in there that would cost me money. That and finding someone who wants to work bad enough they are going to pay to come to work. Workers comp and general liabilty are not cheap up front costs to a guy who doesn't have much. I can't afford to actually hire someone at $.32 per dollar on my workers comp policy.


----------



## Samlock

bitzer said:


> Tramp- Yeah I'm really looking for an operator. I got into this buisness to cut and I'll be damned if I sit in a machine all day for now. In ten years from now I may change my tune though! It would be nice to have two machines going and two or three cutters. Time will tell.



Bitz, have you thought of not hiring but sharing your jobs? I got a list of guys whom I can call whenever I'm planning to cut somewhere. Forwarders, harvesters, tractors, excavators - I don't need to own any, but I always have one, maintained, fueled, delivered, with an operator sitting on it when I need. Nobody's working entirely for me and I'm not working entirely for anyone. It's more like a network of independent contractors. That's how the expensive machines keep running full time and nobody bears alone responsibility of keeping his people busy.


----------



## northmanlogging

Samlock said:


> Bitz, have you thought of not hiring but sharing your jobs? I got a list of guys whom I can call whenever I'm planning to cut somewhere. Forwarders, harvesters, tractors, excavators - I don't need to own any, but I always have one, maintained, fueled, delivered, with an operator sitting on it when I need. Nobody's working entirely for me and I'm not working entirely for anyone. It's more like a network of independent contractors. That's how the expensive machines keep running full time and nobody bears alone responsibility of keeping his people busy.



Ironic, I just started a thread in bis management, on this very subject...


----------



## bitzer

Samlock said:


> Bitz, have you thought of not hiring but sharing your jobs? I got a list of guys whom I can call whenever I'm planning to cut somewhere. Forwarders, harvesters, tractors, excavators - I don't need to own any, but I always have one, maintained, fueled, delivered, with an operator sitting on it when I need. Nobody's working entirely for me and I'm not working entirely for anyone. It's more like a network of independent contractors. That's how the expensive machines keep running full time and nobody bears alone responsibility of keeping his people busy.



That is a possiblity although I've got the machine already. There is a guy cutting for my mill working for a different forester in my area. I guess we've been working 20-30 miles apart for several months now and I didn't know it. He has a couple of cable skidders and it sounds like he has an operator while he cuts. From what I understand he has gone through three different guys since last fall. The only issue I would see happening is that I don't want to turn into the pulp ##### because I've got the the machine for it. I'd rather not pulp at all but its kind of a necessary evil around here. I think I'm going to get a hold of him and see what his story is. The foresters have been kind of attempting to get us to work jobs together and I have been somewhat reluctant for the pulp reason. We had one job that fell through because of lack of snow that we would have worked on. The other thing is since we are both used to doing things our own way we would probably end up butting heads. I'm pretty laid back, but can definetly be stubborn. Thats probably why I've worked alone thus far. He also lives several hours to the north. I'd like to have a local guy. Splitting who gets paid what would be an issue too and at mill sub-contractor rates there isn't much to fight over. So yeah I've pretty much talked myself out of that deal if you can tell. I'm thinking fresh guy that I can mold, fresh to the logging buisness that is.


----------



## Samlock

bitzer said:


> That is a possiblity although I've got the machine already. There is a guy cutting for my mill working for a different forester in my area. I guess we've been working 20-30 miles apart for several months now and I didn't know it. He has a couple of cable skidders and it sounds like he has an operator while he cuts. From what I understand he has gone through three different guys since last fall. The only issue I would see happening is that I don't want to turn into the pulp ##### because I've got the the machine for it. I'd rather not pulp at all but its kind of a necessary evil around here. I think I'm going to get a hold of him and see what his story is. The foresters have been kind of attempting to get us to work jobs together and I have been somewhat reluctant for the pulp reason. We had one job that fell through because of lack of snow that we would have worked on. The other thing is since we are both used to doing things our own way we would probably end up butting heads. I'm pretty laid back, but can definetly be stubborn. Thats probably why I've worked alone thus far. He also lives several hours to the north. I'd like to have a local guy. Splitting who gets paid what would be an issue too and at mill sub-contractor rates there isn't much to fight over. So yeah I've pretty much talked myself out of that deal if you can tell. I'm thinking fresh guy that I can mold, fresh to the logging buisness that is.



I hear you. A working network requires a bunch of guys with variety of machinery and different locations. That way you can always pick up the nearest guy with suitable gear and room in his calendar. With one or two comrades - yeah, there will be conflicts. You also need an option to drop off a guy without getting into trouble.

Everyone needs to have more or less fixed price lists too.

I hope you'll find good people someday, Bitz. A lone wolf business is not easy way to earn living.


----------



## northmanlogging

Unless your a good judge people, you might have to burn through, 9-10 before you find a good one. Lots of people want to be big bad @@@ loggers or "lumber jerks" but just don't get it, or wuss out on ya, or get drunked or drugged up and forget to show up fer work. Lately it seems everywhere is like that though... People want a job but Gods forbid if they have to work...:msp_angry:


----------



## OlympicYJ

Bitz, training a guy to your way of doing things for your operation would be the way to go. A Timber Co I worked for had a contractor with a green guy screwing up the bucking. They said they'd fire him but our guy said no I'll spend time with him and train him otherwise we'll have the same problem just a different guy. 

Hopefully you can find a guy that thinks on his feet and has some initiative but can also follow along with your plan. I would also want a guy to present his idea's if he thinks it's a good one. Unfortunately my last two sentences do not describe a very large percentage of the work force...


----------



## s.v tmbrjak

Samlock said:


> Bitz, have you thought of not hiring but sharing your jobs? I got a list of guys whom I can call whenever I'm planning to cut somewhere. Forwarders, harvesters, tractors, excavators - I don't need to own any, but I always have one, maintained, fueled, delivered, with an operator sitting on it when I need. Nobody's working entirely for me and I'm not working entirely for anyone. It's more like a network of independent contractors. That's how the expensive machines keep running full time and nobody bears alone responsibility of keeping his people busy.



just ask anyone contract cutter any guy that owns a timbco! this is the best way to stay in buisness.


----------



## bitzer

Thanks for the input boys! The hunt is on.


----------



## OlympicYJ

bitzer said:


> Thanks for the input boys! The hunt is on.



Going after your own guy or subbing out some stuff? Just curious what route your headin.

Good luck! 

Wes


----------



## bitzer

OlympicYJ said:


> Going after your own guy or subbing out some stuff? Just curious what route your headin.
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> Wes



Subing an operator. At thirty sum cents on the dollar for workers comp I can't afford to hire anyone. I guess all mechanized crew rates are more like ten cents. Hand cutting crews are often all subbed up here. You'd think there could be different rates for guy sitting in a machine all day picking up hand cut wood. Nope.


----------



## s.v tmbrjak

im headin out in bout an hour to cut some nice dougies for an old man ( payin pretty good ) ill try and sneak in some pics.  im so excited as i have been sitting at home all winter watching the kids (mr. mom) i love it ....but i hate it... but boss did call me and say the logger we are cuttin for is lookin at a job by the coast so hopefully be back at it soon.


----------



## young bucker

*Some pics of the heli logging around Hope BC*

View attachment 280466
View attachment 280467
View attachment 280468


----------



## Metals406

young bucker said:


> View attachment 280466
> View attachment 280467
> View attachment 280468



That's a right purdy stump you made there.


----------



## rwoods

*Not so purty stump.*

I took down this storm created oak snag today. Not too big by WC standards, but my biggest diameter to date. I did a little "euro falling" as my bar was 32" and the cut measured 6'2".

















Not the best place to park your limbing saw. :msp_sad:












Ron

View attachment 281055
View attachment 281056
View attachment 281057
View attachment 281058
View attachment 281059


----------



## bitzer

Whats a limbing saw?


----------



## Gologit

bitzer said:


> Whats a limbing saw?



LOL...a luxury we all wish we could afford. That, and someone to pack it around for us. :msp_biggrin:




Ron...just picking on you a little. The tree looks good.


----------



## northmanlogging

Did you drop that oak in it or did it roll over it? Don't feel bad the basket case has a very similar looking aircleaner cover and a slightly bent handle bar... all from before me of course...


----------



## hammerlogging

bitzer said:


> Whats a limbing saw?



another word for bucking chock


----------



## RandyMac

066s make dandy limbing saws and probably wheel chocks too.


----------



## hammerlogging

sometimes I wonder why another saw was ever made.


----------



## paccity




----------



## paccity




----------



## paccity




----------



## rwoods

*"Limbing" saw*

Candidly, I didn't know what else to call my backup saw so I borrowed the term from the chainsaw forum. Since I can usually drive to the site, I take backup saws - usually to back me up when I'm too pooped to wrangle anything heavier. And to cut me out of a pinch. In this case I cut the "limbing" saw out of a pinch, grabbed it before it fell, sat it behind me, and then removed the 125 from the cut; when I did the sections rolled on the poor little Stihl. I'm glad it was the saw and not me. I had to go get the guy with the tractor to save the saw - my Landcrusier let me down as it was unable to push-roll the section far enough. Ron


----------



## northmanlogging

I work alone about 50% of the time, so having a back up saw in the crummy is a must have, most times I'll have the wifey or a homeowner around in case something really bad happens...


----------



## Metals406

Private 5 acre remediation for Spruce Budworm and Tussock Moth.

Ron's gotta haul butt, supposed to be in the 50°'s next week, and we only have 2" of frost this year.

Won't take much to have breakup on top him quick.

All is hand felled, then the processor is crawled up to process and bunch for the Kubota and Farmi setup. It's pretty quick that way.

I get to go have more fun this week. :msp_thumbup: BTW John, you have to go up that driveway to see what's happening. . . Swing in this week sometime. :smile2:


----------



## Rounder

How the hell did you manage to get on that flat ground? Somebody forget their clipper??!!


----------



## Metals406

Rounder said:


> How the hell did you manage to get on that flat ground? Somebody forget their clipper??!!



I'm telling ya, Ron's got a sweet thing going. I think Cody might could look into expanding into something like this along with his special tree work.

A Kubota around 30 horse, make some guarding for it, and slap on a Farmi.

This job is 5 acres of creamy fir -- Ron gets all the timber and some grant money for slash.

You sure won't get rich doing it, but it's about as much fun logging as you can have. No Bullbuck barking at you, no yarder horn running ya ragged. It's amazing how much funner logging is if you're not pushed for a deadline or some of the other things that come with bigger shows.


----------



## tramp bushler

paccity said:


>




Wow, a Roller nose bar. I'm guessing 071 . And a 6 point. Good pic. Also looks like that was the first tree of the day.


----------



## tramp bushler

paccity said:


>




Looks like the Bullbuck came over t help with this one.


----------



## tramp bushler

Metals406 said:


> I'm telling ya, Ron's got a sweet thing going. I think Cody might could look into expanding into something like this along with his special tree work.
> 
> A Kubota around 30 horse, make some guarding for it, and slap on a Farmi.
> 
> This job is 5 acres of creamy fir -- Ron gets all the timber and some grant money for slash.
> 
> You sure won't get rich doing it, but it's about as much fun logging as you can have. No Bullbuck barking at you, no yarder horn running ya ragged. It's amazing how much funner logging is if you're not pushed for a deadline or some of the other things that come with bigger shows.



Or an American Track Loader on rubber with a snorkle like LP had at Coffman Cove. For loading out the right of way logs . The swing friction on it sounded like a Fallers whistle. And it was so loud we couldn't hear the guy next to us. I wish I could LIKE your post about 50 times. !!


----------



## Rounder

Logging fun Nate? I thought I must have commited some horrible crime to wind up where I'm at!

I sawed for a guy over in Helena for a while that had a Kubota with a Farmi, they are a pretty slick, low impact setup. It was a lot more fun too......just didn't pay worth a ####.


----------



## Metals406

Rounder said:


> Logging fun Nate? I thought I must have commited some horrible crime to wind up where I'm at!
> 
> I sawed for a guy over in Helena for a while that had a Kubota with a Farmi, they are a pretty slick, low impact setup. It was a lot more fun too......just didn't pay worth a ####.



Got that 117 you gave me running -- used it up on the job today (Haywire showed up for a bit too ). She's a little chip maker for 61cc. . . Although, my port job may have contributed. :msp_biggrin:

24" bar and full comp Stihl square chisel. The chain cut like Fito's ass out'a the box, I need to give it a little loving before I video it. LOL


----------



## paccity

tramp bushler said:


> Wow, a Roller nose bar. I'm guessing 071 . And a 6 point. Good pic. Also looks like that was the first tree of the day.



and the chain rash on the shoulder and bar oil stains down the back.


----------



## Rounder

Metals406 said:


> Got that 117 you gave me running -- used it up on the job today (Haywire showed up for a bit too ). She's a little chip maker for 61cc. . . Although, my port job may have contributed. :msp_biggrin:
> 
> 24" bar and full comp Stihl square chisel. The chain cut like Fito's ass out'a the box, I need to give it a little loving before I video it. LOL



Nice! Those are really nifty little saws, glad you've been able to make some use of it. 

Seems like no matter what chain you buy anymore does need a bit of work to be made to cut worth a damn. I just switched from the Oregon CL to CK. Speeds up the process a bit and seems to cut just as nicely on the bars I run.


----------



## Metals406

Rounder said:


> Nice! Those are really nifty little saws, glad you've been able to make some use of it.
> 
> Seems like no matter what chain you buy anymore does need a bit of work to be made to cut worth a damn. I just switched from the Oregon CL to CK. Speeds up the process a bit and seems to cut just as nicely on the bars I run.



I was worried it'd be a dog with new rings and a 24" and full comp. . . It's just peachy though.

I'll be up there tomorrow and I'll try and get a vid'ya of the saw werking.

I'd like to try some CK instead of the Stihl square. Stihl chain is hard on mah files! :msp_sneaky:


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## Trx250r180

rwoods said:


> I took down this storm created oak snag today. Not too big by WC standards, but my biggest diameter to date. I did a little "euro falling" as my bar was 32" and the cut measured 6'2".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not the best place to park your limbing saw. :msp_sad:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ron
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 281055
> View attachment 281056
> View attachment 281057
> View attachment 281058
> View attachment 281059



i think i have plastics for this if you need them ,sold my 036 so i dont need extras now ,pm an address i can ship them ups


----------



## rwoods

trx250r180 said:


> i think i have plastics for this if you need them ,sold my 036 so i dont need extras now ,pm an address i can ship them ups



You know I'm just a trespasser here; if you want to reconsider, I'll understand. Thanks, I'll send a PM. Ron


----------



## hammerlogging

Metals406 said:


> I was worried it'd be a dog with new rings and a 24" and full comp. . . It's just peachy though.
> 
> I'll be up there tomorrow and I'll try and get a vid'ya of the saw werking.
> 
> I'd like to try some CK instead of the Stihl square. Stihl chain is hard on mah files! :msp_sneaky:



75 ck day in and day out, 110 drivers, never think twice about it.


----------



## rwoods

I see some of you boys have been over in the chainsaw thread "discussin" the facts of life with a "50cc rules" fellow who also touts the use of 90cc saws with 20" bars for logging North American trees. Anyone still wondering why I trespass over here? Ron


----------



## Metals406

rwoods said:


> I see some of you boys have been over in the chainsaw thread "discussin" the facts of life with a "50cc rules" fellow who also touts the use of 90cc saws with 20" bars for logging North American trees. Anyone still wondering why I trespass over here? Ron



Benny Westphal is said to cut timber with a 20" bar on his 066, all over the west here -- and I hear he's pretty damn quick about it. hone:





Bar length doesn't make the cutter. :msp_wink:


----------



## rwoods

Metals406 said:


> Benny Westphal is said to cut timber with a 20" bar on his 066, all over the west here -- and I hear he's pretty damn quick about it. hone:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bar length doesn't make the cutter. :msp_wink:



You are correct. I have a 50 something inch bar, but in my case all that means is I have a 50 something inch bar. As to 20" 066s, I expected a comment or two but that wasn't my intended point as I have no problem with anyone having more power than the wood requires if they can and want to handle it. Besides who am I to tell a logger what saw to use. I don't know the CSF poster's credentials, but I just couldn't get past the irony of his positions (50cc saws rule and 20" 90cc saws) nor his focus on bar lengths of the West Coast. Both ccs and bar length are regular fights over in the CSF. It gets insane at times. Then someone throws in the erroneous perception that WC loggers are snobs - it gets rather sad. Ron


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## northmanlogging

rwoods said:


> You are correct... blah blah blah... Then someone throws in the erroneous perception that WC loggers are snobs - it gets rather sad. Ron



We are not snobs... we're just better than everyone else:biggrin:


----------



## rwoods

Northman, not only are you better with a saw, I like your version of my post better than mine. Ron


----------



## slowp

rwoods said:


> You are correct. I have a 50 something inch bar, but in my case all that means is I have a 50 something inch bar. As to 20" 066s, I expected a comment or two but that wasn't my intended point as I have no problem with anyone having more power than the wood requires if they can and want to handle it. Besides who am I to tell a logger what saw to use. I don't know the CSF poster's credentials, but I just couldn't get past the irony of his positions (50cc saws rule and 20" 90cc saws) nor his focus on bar lengths of the West Coast. Both ccs and bar length are regular fights over in the CSF. It gets insane at times. Then someone throws in the erroneous perception that WC loggers are snobs - it gets rather sad. Ron



I prefer the term Snooty.


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## Metals406

slowp said:


> I prefer the term Snooty.



You're not snooty Patty. . . You're refined! :biggrin:


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## northmanlogging

is it bad that I read it like that?

Seriously though technical mumbo jumbo reads somthing like take peice blalh and blah blah 23 whakity smakity and insert tab blah blah into hole whatever blah blah... who cares blah blah blah 555 867 5309, jenny they got your number blah blah...

And really I'm just a hack that makes allot of sloping back cuts...


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## Gologit

Metals406 said:


> You're not snooty Patty. . . You're refined! :biggrin:



Ahhhh, you're trying to get on the pie and cookie list aren't you. Shameless, just shameless.


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## rwoods

I'm clearly out of my league in this forum, but I just returned from the chainsaw lab with a possible solution to the endless bickering in the CSF. For your exclusive premier viewing pleasure, I present the high mileage champ long bar saw and the max-minimizer special. Ron

The Champ






The Special






Wait, come to think of it someone has already done this - back to the lab. 

View attachment 282149
View attachment 282150


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## Gologit

rwoods said:


> You are correct. Both ccs and bar length are regular fights over in the CSF. It gets insane at times. Then someone throws in the erroneous perception that WC loggers are snobs - it gets rather sad. Ron



Some people get snobbery confused with being justifiably proud of what we do.

The best fallers I have known were quiet men, even humble and self effacing...until you poked them with a stick and insulted their trade or their ability. That's when it could get real ugly real quick. It's still that way, except now it's on the 'net instead of on a sawdust floor in some saloon.

The East vs. West thing has always been here and I guess it always will be.

Run what you need to run to get the job done. Not much else matters.


----------



## rwoods

BTW thanks for the intervention over in the CSF. I'll try to behave and let this thread get back on track as well. Ron


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## Gologit

rwoods said:


> BTW thanks for the intervention over in the CSF. I'll try to behave and let this thread get back on track as well. Ron



No problem. Some times the derails are good. Fun even. It's just the petty bickering that gets old.


----------



## Metals406

Gologit said:


> Ahhhh, you're trying to get on the pie and cookie list aren't you. Shameless, just shameless.



Dammit Bob! . . You know she can see us typing right?


There goes my shot at them oatmeal GTG cookies.


----------



## Metals406

Gologit said:


> Some people get snobbery confused with being justifiably proud of what we do.
> 
> The best fallers I have known were quiet men, even humble and self effacing...until you poked them with a stick and insulted their trade or their ability. That's when it could get real ugly real quick. It's still that way, except now it's on the 'net instead of on a sawdust floor in some saloon.
> 
> The East vs. West thing has always been here and I guess it always will be.
> 
> Run what you need to run to get the job done. Not much else matters.



Now ain't that the truth!!

I'll never be a good faller :msp_unsure:. . . Cause I'm a freaking blabbermouth!


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## madhatte

Metals406 said:


> I'll never be a good faller :msp_unsure:. . . Cause I'm a freaking blabbermouth!



Must be a Nate thing... I've got the same problem!


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## Metals406

madhatte said:


> Must be a Nate thing... I've got the same problem!



Mah brother from another mother! :msp_razz:


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## madhatte

A-hyup. GTG comin' up too, gonna be a lotta idle chatter 'n' stuff, I reckon.


----------



## slowp

I'm not snooty. I say that snooty is a better term for snobby loggers....maybe another thread topic? :msp_smile:


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## Jacob J.

Metals406 said:


> Now ain't that the truth!!
> 
> I'll never be a good faller :msp_unsure:. . . Cause I'm a freaking blabbermouth!





madhatte said:


> Must be a Nate thing... I've got the same problem!



Both you guys seem to do very well for yourselves, blabberin' or no.


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## tramp bushler

:hmm3grin2orange: I almost spit coffee all over my puter :waaaht::hmm3grin2orange:


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## tramp bushler

If your on flat or easy ground and the timber isn't too big a 20" bar is OK. If your back can take it. But. Short bars lead to real inaccurate falling. . Just because a 28" tree can be turned into a stump doesn't mean its better than a 30-36" . Heck ( don't get P.Oed) We considered the Montana's and Wyoming s to be short bared, easterners when they would show up in a camp in Southeast with 28" bars for their saws..


----------



## Rounder

I'd be curious to know which Montanans you've worked with Glen, pretty small world. Couple guys I work with have done some stints in SE.


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## paccity




----------



## tramp bushler

Rounder said:


> I'd be curious to know which Montanans you've worked with Glen, pretty small world. Couple guys I work with have done some stints in SE.


 Now see, I said don't get pissed :msp_angry:. Most gys I only knew their first names or the moniker they got tagged with. A number of them were just called Montana. Some of them I never knew their names .. Ryan McBride was a real good little cutter from Libby. Butch? Where from? Montana. He made knives in his off time He cut for ,Buhler, then for Jim Byron . He got cut a number of times. There was a part native guy from the Poulson area. He talked quite a bit and smoked ciggaretts. But he didn't get hurt. Seemed to do an OK job with his timber. Lobby Sarett cut out at Long Is. . That's where he got killed. He was fast but according to 2 of his bull bucks, well. 
Nice straight slick Larch isn't the best timber to learn how to cut Southeast timber on.


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## tramp bushler

Lonny Sarret. Not Lobby. Need t get this new fon trained. 

Any Idahovians or Montana's that stuck around went to standard 32 or 36" bars. Unless they liked getting stuck in #### patches.


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## Metals406

tramp bushler said:


> If your on flat or easy ground and the timber isn't too big a 20" bar is OK. If your back can take it. But. Short bars lead to real inaccurate falling. . Just because a 28" tree can be turned into a stump doesn't mean its better than a 30-36" . Heck ( don't get P.Oed) We considered the Montana's and Wyoming s to be short bared, easterners when they would show up in a camp in Southeast with 28" bars for their saws..



All the Montuckians I know Glen, that cut a lot (firewood to timber), have long bar syndrome. 

Sure, most everyone will use a short bar every once in a while. . . I like a 28"-32" myself, but have no problem with a 18"-24" now and then -- specially on the smaller saws.


----------



## Metals406

So, working with Ron -- who has 43 years on the saw -- is rather humbling, and makes me realize how much of a newb I am!! :msp_unsure: Regardless, I've been enjoying myself beyond measure. 

Ron told me he was positive he was a Skookum cutter when he was 35. . . Then he turned 36 and realized he had learned a bunch more. 

The guy lops timber like he's brushing his dang teeth! 

I've learned a bunch, and it's been good hard physical work. Not to mention Ron is good company, and puts up with punk ass! :msp_ohmy:

He doesn't pay me (not part of the deal I made with him), but I try and work like I'm get'n $700 a day -- cause I'm still getting the better end of the deal. 

He teaches, I listen and work hard -- you usually have to pay for that stuff you know. . . Like in college and stuff.


----------



## tramp bushler

Ben Thompson, I think he was originally from Delaware but he immigrated to Montana. He was a good cutter and last I knew was still alive. Kip Thompson, no relation was an awesome cutter he was originally from Idaho.. . He was at least a man and a half in 1 body. He was Real good. He got widow marketed real bad helicopter cutting at Ward Cove in Ketchikan. . I don't know how he's doing. Big Sitka spruce limb came down from about 100' up. . Kip was a really good guy. Next Pierce. . Wes Line berry. A good cutter from Idaho. He cut for Buhler then for APC at Rowan Bay. Dan Congilosi was from Montana got his neck broke helicopter cutting in Montana then immigrated to Alaska. He cut for Buhler and APC. Good cutter. Was running 394 s before he stopped cutting. His neck bothered him a lot. The guy from the Poulson area I think his name was Jim we were cutting over on the Goose Cram road and the White Rock Road on P.O.W. 
Duane Lowe. I think he was from Idaho, but it might have been Morton?


----------



## tramp bushler

Fix this
widow makered
Nes Pierce
Goose Crik
Duane got bad hurt several times. Broke his neck the last time.
I like to laugh at Iron Workers and tell them how safe their job is.
Let me think, John Patton was from Idaho. Strong as an ox. Got his neck broke, went to runnin trader then Tending Hook then runnin shovel. He was cutting for Louie Lee when he got hurt the last time. Cutting at Rowan Bay. There's more, just can't remember them right now. 
Anyone figured out yet why I don't cut for whirly birds. .


----------



## tramp bushler

Fix this
widow makered
Nes Pierce
Goose Crik
Duane got bad hurt several times. Broke his neck the last time.
I like to laugh at Iron Workers and tell them how safe their job is.
Let me think, John Parton was from Idaho. Strong as an ox. Got his neck broke, went to runnin trader then Tending Hook then runnin shovel. He was cutting for Louie Lee when he got hurt the last time. Cutting at Rowan Bay. There's more, just can't remember them right now. 
Anyone figured out yet why I don't cut for whirly birds. .


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## tramp bushler

That was weird
runnin yarder


----------



## Rounder

Here in Montana, I've found the best bars to be the ones that serve Coors in a bottle.


----------



## tramp bushler

Heck, my favorite saw this winter is my little Jonsred 2050 Jubalee Edition Turbo! 
With a 16" .325 bar running semi chisel Oregon chain full comp. I've fell, climbed and bucked up over 5 cord of wood with it and still haven't taken a file to the chain and it still cuts like a raped ape. But, if I was cutting stuff b igger than 14" on the stump. No doubt I would run a longer bar. 

Alaska logging camps were mostly run like the guys from Washington and Oregon wanted them to be and most of the crews were hired from where ever the camp push, siderod or bull Buck or cutting contractor was from so I've worked with lots of guys from Morton, Mossy Rock, Castle Rock, Darrington, Coos Bay, Reedsport, Seaside, Grays Harbor, White Salmon, Vernonia, ect. ect. Most of the bosses were pretty quick to run off guys from anywhere other than they were from. The Grays Harbour guys were the worst at it. Us Alaskans got hung out to dry pretty quick far to often.


----------



## tramp bushler

Limbed not climbed. Don't climb at below 0 . 

I plan on putting a 24" 3/8 full skip chisel on it for climbing this summer.


----------



## OlympicYJ

tramp bushler said:


> The Grays Harbour guys were the worst at it.



I don't know why.... but I'm not surprised. Bein from there It can get pretty clanish. Even between the crews. One guy leaves and moves over to a different outfit then the guys he worked with migrate there as well. As I hear tell guys from SE that came down to Grisdale didn't stay to long either. I always heard it was because of the steep ground but maybe they just got ran off?


----------



## jaars

hammerlogging said:


> Buena Vista, VA, pronounced "Bewna"-- correct me if I'm wrong Kid
> 
> and my favorite yet, Versailles, KY, pronounced phonetically, not Frenchish



We pronounce it Versales. Haha get a lot of s#*t with that!!


----------



## Samlock

tramp bushler said:


> Limbed not climbed. Don't climb at below 0 .
> 
> I plan on putting a 24" 3/8 full skip chisel on it for climbing this summer.



Second that!

I'm picking up my own climbing gear this week. So what do you say, Glen, about that chain and bar setup, what's the gain?


----------



## OlympicYJ

Hey Glen and Sam. I know you guys use small saws sometimes. I've got a stihl 260 pro with a 20" 3/8. Thinking of getting either an 18" or 16". Idea is to get a shorter package for limbing and firewood which is what it's used for anyways. If I'm thinning just throw the 20" on. Although an 18" might be a better choice. I've just started to get the feeling the 20" is a bit much anymore. Gonna stick with 3/8 for durability reasons. Would there be any advantage with the lopro?

Wes


----------



## Samlock

My 260 wears a 17'' full comp. Well, it's just a back up saw these days. I find the saw quite breathless running a 20'' bar.


----------



## tramp bushler

Samlock said:


> Second that!
> 
> I'm picking up my own climbing gear this week. So what do you say, Glen, about that chain and bar setup, what's the gain?



The reason I'm going to the longer bar is for the bigger Sitka Spruce and big cottonwoods. And sometimes when I'm in a Poplar clumps I can do 2 or 3 trees from the 1 I'm in. Some of these Spruce have 12" limbs on them and the extra bar length will help my th get another 30-40 feet closer to the ground before I need the bigger saw sent up. Getting older I get tired after going a hundred feet and 2 tanks of gas up a cobby old spruce. Hauling the 460 Stihl 32" 70 feet up the treeisnt my idea of fun. . I used a 460 Husky, 24" some last year and it was pretty good. A top handle arborist saw is great for small trees but a pain for big trees.


----------



## tramp bushler

N The reason for full skip is to keep the chain speed up. Pump more oil. . Its not a million mile an hour bushlin saw. Ya, its a little under powered but the longer bar is more for reach than for having the bar full of wood. With a chisel ground chain and not hoggin the depth guages down more than 25 thousands it should do good. 

I've had 3 260 Stihls and ran 20" on them. But I view the 260 as a 10-12" diameter wood size saw. And 4-8" is more like it. A 16" just means more bending over. But u get more oil on the chain. So that's a good thing


----------



## northmanlogging

For climbing I use the Stihl 260 with 20" bar and full skip...but I don't climb real often anymore, My partner on the other hand uses a top handle still, and occasionally I send the 260 or his 361 up after him to do some topping or bigger limbs


----------



## madhatte

OlympicYJ said:


> Gonna stick with 3/8 for durability reasons. Would there be any advantage with the lopro?



My opinion on this one is is pretty simple: while a specialty tool does its specialty best but may not do other things well at all, a generalist tool will often do everything "well enough". For this reason, the fleet at work all wear 3/8" .050" RMC, from 16" to 36", so that I can spin them all from a single roll. It's not the fastest chain, but it's fast enough, and it's easy to maintain, either by file or by grinder. A short supply train is a good thing.


----------



## OlympicYJ

madhatte said:


> My opinion on this one is is pretty simple: while a specialty tool does its specialty best but may not do other things well at all, a generalist tool will often do everything "well enough". For this reason, the fleet at work all wear 3/8" .050" RMC, from 16" to 36", so that I can spin them all from a single roll. It's not the fastest chain, but it's fast enough, and it's easy to maintain, either by file or by grinder. A short supply train is a good thing.



That's why I've stuck with 3/8. everybody has it! Never really was sold on .325 but I'm not a stick in the mud I'll try new things if there's a chance it will work.


----------



## Rounder

Not pic worthy, but Spring must be here. Wore cotton gloves instead of rag wool for the first time since early October. Pretty nice.

Hope you all had a good, safe week - Sam


----------



## tramp bushler

On Ya, anytime u make it threw the week safe and sound it's a good reason to be thankful and maybe celebrate a bit. 

The reason I don't run 50 ga on over 80 CC saws is they stretch out or just get ripped in half. Even my 372 Husky and 460 Stihl tear them in half pretty regular. . 
For climbing a 50 CC saw is pretty handy. At least for west coast conifers. I've been running 325 on my Jred cause it was on there already and I haven't changed it yet..


----------



## paccity

tramp bushler said:


> Heck, my favorite saw this winter is my little Jonsred 2050 Jubalee Edition Turbo!
> With a 16" .325 bar running semi chisel Oregon chain full comp. I've fell, climbed and bucked up over 5 cord of wood with it and still haven't taken a file to the chain and it still cuts like a raped ape. But, if I was cutting stuff b igger than 14" on the stump. No doubt I would run a longer bar.
> 
> Alaska logging camps were mostly run like the guys from Washington and Oregon wanted them to be and most of the crews were hired from where ever the camp push, siderod or bull Buck or cutting contractor was from so I've worked with lots of guys from Morton, Mossy Rock, Castle Rock, Darrington, Coos Bay, Reedsport, Seaside, Grays Harbor, White Salmon, Vernonia, ect. ect. Most of the bosses were pretty quick to run off guys from anywhere other than they were from. The Grays Harbour guys were the worst at it. Us Alaskans got hung out to dry pretty quick far to often.



you ever work with chuck berg from oregon? he is a friend thats still knocking them down up there out of petersburg.


----------



## tramp bushler

The name is familiar, how long has he been cutting out of Petersburg? The last time I cut down in central Southeast was in 2000 . Went to Hoonah in 01 and thinned trees out of there then cut timber there for WhiteStone and for D+L. We moved up here almost 5 years ago . There were a few guys from Oregon that were working out of Petersburg and Lake when I cut for Turn Mountain Timber. They also cut for Hildy, SEA Island Cutting on Kuiu .


----------



## tramp bushler

Kake not Lake.!!


----------



## tramp bushler

Kake not Lake.!! 

Actually, I forgot I cut for SEA Island on Dall Is. Bob Byers had the company then that was in 05 . Clean Gene Colbert was Bull Bucking there .


----------



## 056 kid

Few white pine pics. I forget how to make them full size..


----------



## 056 kid

Some poplar. Anyone saw a Dutchman like that ever. Works goood..


----------



## 056 kid

Few more


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## mdavlee

Nice pictures Ted. Where you cutting at now?


----------



## 056 kid

Thanks!
That's over in east Ten. Not far from Erwin.


----------



## mdavlee

Dang you're almost where I live. I'm about 45 minutes to there.


----------



## 056 kid

Pretty country. I really want to toss a line with all the streams around!


----------



## mdavlee

There should be some trout up in that area. There's lots of streams up in there.


----------



## HuskStihl

056 kid said:


> Some poplar. Anyone saw a Dutchman like that ever. Works goood..



Great picks, does your cut rotate the tree right while falling? I retract my earlier statement regarding steep:biggrin:


----------



## 056 kid

Yes it does. That is semi steep there, I cut the poplar with a busted leg, bruised from the thigh to the ankle.


----------



## rwoods

056 kid said:


> Thanks!
> That's over in east Ten. Not far from Erwin.



I was just about to comment you must be back East. Didn't know you were practically in my back yard. Less than 30 miles by road. Ron


----------



## rwoods

trx250r180 said:


> i think i have plastics for this if you need them ,sold my 036 so i dont need extras now ,pm an address i can ship them ups



The parts arrived last night. Really nice pieces. Thanks again. I owe you. Ron


----------



## tramp bushler

56 ; ya that looks like a regular kerf Dutchman. . They work good with thawed out sound timber. Kerf steps help if you really need to bring them around a long ways. 
I probably use a kerf Dutchman on 50% of the trees I fall.

Easy to see how a guy could get busted up in that select cutting. Real nice looking work . Real nice. !!!!!!!:msp_thumbup:


----------



## bitzer

Hey kid great pics! I bet its fun cuttin some nice pine. I've always thought that the best holding wood on a dutchman has this kind of shape. Makes sense if you think about it. Its going to break in the middle first and keep the most holding wood where you need it as its coming around. I had er pinned on the back cut on this one she went pretty fast. If you have a slow moving swing you risk pinching cutting that far though.






Thought I'd a do a little before(mostly) and after. 





After: This pic was taken about 20ft to the right of the first one. Had a top laying there. You can tell how deep the snow is in here if you can find my saw. 





Biggest hard maple on the job. Probably a 6-700bfer.





Biggest red oak. Somewhere around 800bf.





View attachment 284785

View attachment 284786

View attachment 284787

View attachment 284788

View attachment 284789


----------



## bitzer

Tapin off that red.












Bought a new bucket. It kicks ass! Cut my handling time nearly in half. Lighter and faster and the bypass beats the hell out of the butt bucket. 





She closes up real tight. 





My view when I come out of the woods in the skidder. Had some rain last weekend but the snow pretty much soaked er up. The forecast says I've got at least another week of winter left. Just crazy. Last year it was 70 degrees and the trees where leafin out at this time. The hill in the background is my next job. 




View attachment 284793

View attachment 284794

View attachment 284795

View attachment 284796

View attachment 284797


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## rwoods

*Near Miss Today*



bitzer said:


> Hey kid great pics! I bet its fun cuttin some nice pine. I've always thought that the best holding wood on a dutchman has this kind of shape. Makes sense if you think about it. Its going to break in the middle first and keep the most holding wood where you need it as its coming around. I had er pinned on the back cut on this one she went pretty fast. If you have a slow moving swing you risk pinching cutting that far though.



I don't know if this firewood hack ever does anything right, but the above cut is what I try to do when attempting to turn a tree. Today, I had a potentially deadly experience turning a small deformed oak. As a favor to an elderly couple today, I agreed to cut two trees near their house. The first, a fair size tornado ravaged poplar, needed turning and fell as planned (I roped it off as insurance as it was tall enough to hit the house). The couple sat safely on the porch and watched. Before I cut the tree, the gentleman and I talked about staying clear. He spoke and behaved as if he had some experience and appreciated the danger. The next tree they wanted cut was a small deformed oak. It was too short to reach the house but I wanted to turn it to minimize damage to their yard. The couple remained on the front porch. Just as the tree started to fall, I look up and see the old man take off in a sprint just at the point where the tree would hit if it didn't turn. There is nothing I can do but watch as he trys to run diagonally past the falling tree. Unfortunately despite all my bad falling, I got it right this time and the tree literally chased him as it turned. If it hadn't happened so fast I probably would been sick to my stomach in helplessness. Fortunately, he was only struck by a thumb sized limb. I assume he left the porch to get a better look. While it is now a little funny re-running the scene through my mind eye, it sure was not funny in real time. This experience is just one more example of why I prefer to cut alone despite the dangers that entails. Ron


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## Samlock

bitzer said:


> Thought I'd a do a little before(mostly) and after.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After: This pic was taken about 20ft to the right of the first one. Had a top laying there. You can tell how deep the snow is in here if you can find my saw.



Thanks for doing that, Bitz. I've been wondering what's that cutting you're doing is about.


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## bitzer

Samlock said:


> Thanks for doing that, Bitz. I've been wondering what's that cutting you're doing is about.



I wish I would have gotten a real before, but ah well. In the back right corner there was a bunch of pulp marked that I wasn't going to chase. Too steep and not worth it. This is a managed forest property and I think they usually shoot for 60% basal area. Typically my forester wouldn't chase all of the biggest and best trees in a stand anyway, but sometimes he marks a woods a little too geared to good management for my liking. There has to be a dozen or so 8-1000 bf red oaks that I think should go. Any time I mention big trees on a job he says we will get them next time. In his 25 years of forestry he has cut many jobs 2 or 3 times. I guess I have to trust what hes doing. Keeps people happy to see big timber in their stands for a while yet too.


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## forestryworks

bitzer said:


> I wish I would have gotten a real before, but ah well. In the back right corner there was a bunch of pulp marked that I wasn't going to chase. Too steep and not worth it. This is a managed forest property and I think they usually shoot for 60% basal area. Typically my forester wouldn't chase all of the biggest and best trees in a stand anyway, but sometimes he marks a woods a little too geared to good management for my liking. There has to be a dozen or so 8-1000 bf red oaks that I think should go. Any time I mention big trees on a job he says we will get them next time. In his 25 years of forestry he has cut many jobs 2 or 3 times. I guess I have to trust what hes doing. Keeps people happy to see big timber in their stands for a while yet too.



The biggest and the best in a stand usually have the best genetics, too. _Or had_. Good stand genetics is way more important that sawin' on the big stuff; you'll catch it "next time". And in most areas of the country, the North Woods especially, trying to repair the bad genetics of cut over forests is an on-going deal. The days of big timber are gone forever boys! Better get used to holding that saw a lot longer...


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## tramp bushler

Naww ; turn er into a stump patch, it'll grow back!! :msp_wub:


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## Metals406

I had an oops today. Removing a DF, that was a three headed hydra, all leaning a different direction. I decided to thread one between the house and shed/barn. Pretty good head and right hand side lean, with the power line feeding the shed/barn just to the right. Wanting to avoid the 3' overhang on the shed/barn, and an equally large one on the house.

Gunned the tree with 3'-4' left for heavy side lean, put a 3/8" cable in it 20' up for a tractor to pull it. Had a little tension on the cable and set the tree up with a bore and strap. Gave him the wave ahead on the tractor and cut the strap. I hear the tractor rev and there he sits spinning the tires on the snow/slush. :msp_unsure::msp_unsure:

The tree just went left of the shed/barn, limb whipping the chit out the overhang and breaking 3 rafter extension. Also, 1 X 2 skip sheathing damaged and 8 sheets of tin. One of the onlookers said he thought a wind gust pushed it right as well -- but that doesn't fix a roof. This was all volunteer stuff, but I'm very dissatisfied. 

I will analyse the mechanics and resolve to learn what I could have done better. I really needed that pull to help out with that side lean, and it just didn't happen. :msp_mad:

The guy wasn't even close to upset, and his wife was even a little giddy (she wanted to tear it down anyway).

Hats off to the everyday yard-tree droppers. . . It's freaking nerve racking, and with no happy ending, it really sucks.


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## Steve NW WI

Metals406 said:


> I had an oops today. Removing a DF, that was a three headed hydra, all leaning a different direction. I decided to thread one between the house and shed/barn. Pretty good head and right hand side lean, with the power line feeding the shed/barn just to the right. Wanting to avoid the 3' overhang on the shed/barn, and an equally large one on the house.
> 
> Gunned the tree with 3'-4' left for heavy side lean, put a 3/8" cable in it 20' up for a tractor to pull it. Had a little tension on the cable and set the tree up with a bore and strap. Gave him the wave ahead on the tractor and cut the strap. I hear the tractor rev and there he sits spinning the tires on the snow/slush. :msp_unsure::msp_unsure:
> 
> The tree just went left of the shed/barn, limb whipping the chit out the overhang and breaking 3 rafter extension. Also, 1 X 2 skip sheathing damaged and 8 sheets of tin. One of the onlookers said he thought a wind gust pushed it right as well -- but that doesn't fix a roof. This was all volunteer stuff, but I'm very dissatisfied.
> 
> I will analyse the mechanics and resolve to learn what I could have done better. I really needed that pull to help out with that side lean, and it just didn't happen. :msp_mad:
> 
> The guy wasn't even close to upset, and his wife was even a little giddy (she wanted to tear it down anyway).
> 
> Hats off to the everyday yard-tree droppers. . . It's freaking nerve racking, and with no happy ending, it really sucks.



Got a half dozen trees on the back side of a house I'm waiting on solid ground for for just that reason. My buddy's 644JD loader is next door to the place, but if it can't get traction, size means nothing.

Sooo...does the Mrs.'s reaction mean that rebuilding won't be needed?


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## Metals406

Steve NW WI said:


> Got a half dozen trees on the back side of a house I'm waiting on solid ground for for just that reason. My buddy's 644JD loader is next door to the place, but if it can't get traction, size means nothing.
> 
> Sooo...does the Mrs.'s reaction mean that rebuilding won't be needed?



No, he wants to fix it. Luckily, I'm a hoarder and I think I have tin that matches his. I'm also very handy, and can carpenter with the best of'em. 

That makes me a Handy-Hoarder? LOL

We both agreed to wait on the other removals until such a time where traction would be a less issue. And a couple may require some climbing anyway.

Their house caught on fire just after Christmas a few months ago. They were renting then. . . There was no insurance. They lost a lot of their personal belongings, cloths, kids toys, etc.

Now they're buying the place from the owner. I was there today to remove some trees he was uncomfortable with (for obvious reasons), and to help with some tear-out and structural damage assessment.

He was plowing with the tractor all morning, and getting around fine. . . I guess some resistance showed he really had poor traction. :msp_rolleyes:

As a bonus, he was showing the contents of said shed/barn. I pointed to a weird looking object on the floor and asked him what it was. He said, "You tell me? I've had several old-timers in here and even they don't know." 

So he moved it around a little, and I went **Light bulb** HEY! You have a real nice PTO driven drag saw there. Minus the blade, and a couple other small items. He was pretty stoked when I told him what 'drag saw' meant. LOL


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## bitzer

forestryworks said:


> The biggest and the best in a stand usually have the best genetics, too. _Or had_. Good stand genetics is way more important that sawin' on the big stuff; you'll catch it "next time". And in most areas of the country, the North Woods especially, trying to repair the bad genetics of cut over forests is an on-going deal. The days of big timber are gone forever boys! Better get used to holding that saw a lot longer...



I'm sure thats part of it. Although keeping the landowner happy may be more of it. There was a big discusion about leaving large timber at one of my SFI cert meetings. Dnr foresters and the like will often leave the big stuff that should go just to appease a land owner that is not thrilled to have their woods logged during a mandatory managed harvest. They certainly don't complain about the tax breaks though. I've passed a lot of trees that I believe are ripe and may be a little over ripe the next time around. My forester told me he was following the order of removal principle. The trees in question had nice healthy crowns and they would also promote nice tall trees in the stand. He is right, the stand will have some beautiful timber someday. Some nice straight oaks and maples. It would just be nice to get the big uns now. Personally I think the stand would be just fine without them. Good soil, drainage, and already nice tall re-gen. Oh well. 

I did look at a job yesterday where I'm going to be slammin some massive oaks for a house site. As soon as everything breaks I'm over there.


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## bitzer

Hey Metals, I know the feeling. I sent a couple of uglies between houses a couple of weekends ago. Had a rope up high and someone pullin as I cut. Everything went fine, but I still hate that feeling in the guts. Very high adrenaline. These trees too were a favor. The more variables at play the more #### that can go wrong!


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## Metals406

bitzer said:


> Hey Metals, I know the feeling. I sent a couple of uglies between houses a couple of weekends ago. Had a rope up high and someone pullin as I cut. Everything went fine, but I still hate that feeling in the guts. Very high adrenaline. These trees too were a favor. The more variables at play the more #### that can go wrong!



Amen to that!


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## Hddnis

Ya' got lucky on that one, roofs are mostly fixable. Those multi-headed buggers always seem to have a mind of their own.

I know that feeling all too well, feel it even on the good drops when I know the tree is going where I want it. It just ain't down safe till it's down safe. I think I've mentioned that I'll wake up at night dreaming about trees falling where they shouldn't, or dropping big branches on a roof. Cold sweat. Wide awake. Panic. Then you realize it's just a dream, and next morning you're back at it, doing the best you know how and taking every precaution you can. You hope and pray that the nightmares stay in your sleep and all the real trees come down soft and safe.



Mr. HE


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## Samlock

Hddnis said:


> Ya' got lucky on that one, roofs are mostly fixable. Those multi-headed buggers always seem to have a mind of their own.
> 
> I know that feeling all too well, feel it even on the good drops when I know the tree is going where I want it. It just ain't down safe till it's down safe. I think I've mentioned that I'll wake up at night dreaming about trees falling where they shouldn't, or dropping big branches on a roof. Cold sweat. Wide awake. Panic. Then you realize it's just a dream, and next morning you're back at it, doing the best you know how and taking every precaution you can. You hope and pray that the nightmares stay in your sleep and all the real trees come down soft and safe.
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. HE



Now you should finally get yourself an insurance. :bait token:


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## tramp bushler

I just climb them anymore! Better exercise that way:msp_smile:
Get way up in the tippy top andchunk them down .


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## northmanlogging

the one house I hit, we did have it tied off to two trucks, both got stuck... then we tried using a tractor, thats when the holding wood broke... tagged the power lines and the roof. Luck was on my side as the power lines only got stretched a little, and just one rotten shingle got bent a little... the owner an elderly lady was laughing and calling us all heroes... strange day... I did have the honor of standing in a small loader bucket wielding the 046, at full lift...

the 1/2 hour yeah its all rigged up, we just need a big saw hand, be home in time for dinner. turned into a 6 hour adrenaline fest, for one tree...


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## Hddnis

Samlock said:


> Now you should finally get yourself an insurance. :bait token:





I've always been fully insured, some jobs carried a special rider worth several million, as required by the insurance company for the properties we were working on. I'm guessing that was more for personal injury, because none of the buildings would have cost that much to totally rebuild.

I just hate breaking things or hurting people because I messed up.:msp_tongue:




Mr. HEw


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## tramp bushler

northmanlogging said:


> the one house I hit, we did have it tied off strange day... I did have the honor of standing in a small loader bucket wielding the 046, at full lift...
> 
> the 1/2 hour yeah its all rigged up, we just need a big saw hand, be home in time for dinner. turned into a 6 hour adrenaline fest, for one tree...



IMO. it just ain't worth it. The best pair of custom fitted climbing boots, a fancy saddle like the Ergovation and a pile of climbing and rigging lines and gear is ALOT cheaper than higher insurance premiums or having to rebuild something
To say nothing of your reputation. 
Once u get used to swinging around in the top of a tree its just work. And it gets to be fun.


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## Metals406

Luckily the tension side saved my butt and the shed was only limb-slapped. Full contact would have been extremely destructive. The one leader was 80' and 2' on the butt.

The conundrum is thus:

Gun 5' more to the left (house side), and maybe maximize some wood with a baby-Siz or something. Now what happens? Does he get good traction, get a good pull and cause the tree to drift left of the gun and smack the house eve?

The heart had some Pini rot. . . But the compression and tension side of the hinge revealed they both did their job, considering the side lean. Thinning the compression side can also lead to premature failure during a pull -- I wanted a nice clean hinge across the tree.

Another consideration would have been cutting level negating the lean (which I did), or cutting at a right-angle to the stem, which can swing the tree into lead without a pull, just based on mechanics. Add a pull that works, and does it pull to far? LOL

In the end, I have to agree with Glen -- blocking down some of the stem, then drop a more manageable and controllable spar -- is the 'safer' maneuver.

I just didn't bring my spurs and belt, and really hate spur climbing hard leaners. They're always trying to chuck you under the lean side.


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## tramp bushler

Ya sometimes climbing is pretty tough duty. Actually its the single hardest work I've ever done. Right up there with loading 5 cord of 4' pulp on my Dad's truck with a pulp hook. But being under the lean isn't that bad.. if your using 2 wire core flip lines it gives u a better hand hold when your rotating around the tree.


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## northmanlogging

I was never real good at climbing, but I tend to get stuck on the bottom side of leaners... I don't do much climbing at all anymore, got a partner that does most of it, he's a little nutty and likes it though...


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## Metals406

tramp bushler said:


> Ya sometimes climbing is pretty tough duty. Actually its the single hardest work I've ever done. Right up there with loading 5 cord of 4' pulp on my Dad's truck with a pulp hook. But being under the lean isn't that bad.. if your using 2 wire core flip lines it gives u a better hand hold when your rotating around the tree.



I can't afford one good wire-core flipline! 

I can't get over what they want fer them damn things. 




northmanlogging said:


> I was never real good at climbing, but I tend to get stuck on the bottom side of leaners... I don't do much climbing at all anymore, got a partner that does most of it, he's a little nutty and likes it though...



Same here, it's like a cotton pick'n black hole trying to suck me in! LOL

I probably wouldn't mind it if I was SRT and on spurs too. At least then you could hang straight fer a few before getting back on the top side.

One of these days I'll have enough dough to buy a good starter kit fer SRT and go have Cody break me in.


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## bitzer

Honestly metals you may have been better off just back cutting and watching the top while it got pulled. At least that way you had more control of where it went instead of letting it all go at once. But then again you said it had a good head lean. Hard for me to say without seeing it. I'm sure you've gone over it in your mind a thousand times now...


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## Metals406

bitzer said:


> Honestly metals you may have been better off just back cutting and watching the top while it got pulled. At least that way you had more control of where it went instead of letting it all go at once. But then again you said it had a good head lean. Hard for me to say without seeing it. I'm sure you've gone over it in your mind a thousand times now...



Oh man, did I ever think that. I even said it to the guy about 15 minutes later, that with a bum pull, I should have just sawed it up and did my best to stay in it and steer.

And it's 1,001 times.


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## tramp bushler

I know how it is. You can make your own wire core fliplines. . I've done it with 3 strand laid line and double braid. WesSpur has 3/8" Tenex for 38 cents a foot. . Get a 30' hank of it and u can make up several prussic lines. Use the prussic as your slack adjuster/ rope grab/ acsender .
When I go to the under side, I step down as I rotate. When I go to the high side I usually step up to it. And I use my fliplines to help pull me up.


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## twochains

Just a vid I shot the other day...nothing spectacular. I still need to figure the camera angle a bit better. I know the vid is long but check out the big white oak near the end of the vid. I have never seen a tree with...umm...balls??...or are they boobs?? :msp_w00t: Thanks in advance if ya actually watch. Cheers! 

FILE0003-1 - YouTube

Heres a short one cutting a shell

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7dqoRI1bCE&list=UU_NjqCPS3PCA_PGz4NCZuLA&index=2


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## bitzer

Twochains- I say this with utmost respect, you're workin too hard! Thats pretty much how they cut em up here to, but man I'd have those trees down in half the time with the 32" bar I run. Seriously. Not trying to start anything, but when your tip is beyond the far side you can put a lot more wood on the ground a lot faster instead of walking and poking around. Cut everything from one side of the tree on one knee and not having to move until the tree is coming off the stump. You can also look up a lot easier. Limbing and bucking is a hell of lot easier too. I've run short bars and long bars and I definetely put more wood on the ground with a longer bar. Its saved my ass on more than one occaision from bound up wood too. Otherwise I like seeing a video of wood I'm used to seeing.


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## twochains

bitzer said:


> Twochains- I say this with utmost respect, you're workin too hard! Thats pretty much how they cut em up here to, but man I'd have those trees down in half the time with the 32" bar I run. Seriously. Not trying to start anything, but when your tip is beyond the far side you can put a lot more wood on the ground a lot faster instead of walking and poking around. Cut everything from one side of the tree on one knee and not having to move until the tree is coming off the stump. You can also look up a lot easier. Limbing and bucking is a hell of lot easier too. I've run short bars and long bars and I definetely put more wood on the ground with a longer bar. Its saved my ass on more than one occaision from bound up wood too. Otherwise I like seeing a video of wood I'm used to seeing.



Thanks, actually I appreciate your reply, I was afraid I was gonna just get crickets. The vid was taken at the end of my day...prolly not moving fast enough. The vid of the hollow tree I bet is the one you are mostly referring to me running around the tree and poking. I usually only have to do that on those shells. Thanks, I'm sort of embarrassed, but I guess that is what I deserve for putting up a helmet cam vid...they don't hide anything.

So will I have to get a different oiler to run a 32" bar? Or will I be fine, the saw is a 46 mag.


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## mdavlee

You may be fine with a 32" on that saw. There are also 30" bars out there also. :thumbup:


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## northmanlogging

I run 32" all day long on an 046 and a 461, just max out the oil and don't look back. could probably get away with running a 28" in that stuff though... hard to tell from pictures and video... If your real worried they do make a high volume oiller for em


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## tramp bushler

The 460 will pump plenty of oil for a 32" bar. It a standard up here on the coast. 

Your cutting looks pretty good. Were it me I would fall some of those harpoons ahead of falling the tree. In the long haul you will get more wood on the ground per year. It reduces the trips to the emergency room. 

Thumb, thumb, thumb. One of the things I like about wrap handle bars your thumb can live under the wrap on those top quarter climbing cuts.. . Not picking on ya. If I was bull buckin ya I'd say the same stuff.
You run a good steady pace on the first vid . I didn't have time for the 2 nd.


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## tramp bushler

Top quarter Limbing cuts

30" bars are IMO the sweet spot for the 460 .. perfect balance good reach. Higher chain speed and plenty of oil.


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## HuskStihl

twochains said:


> Just a vid I shot the other day...nothing spectacular. I still need to figure the camera angle a bit better. I know the vid is long but check out the big white oak near the end of the vid. I have never seen a tree with...umm...balls??...or are they boobs?? :msp_w00t: Thanks in advance if ya actually watch. Cheers!
> 
> FILE0003-1 - YouTube
> 
> Heres a short one cutting a shell
> 
> FILE0002-2 - YouTube



I thought you cut purdy good, ol' son! I also thought your 460 was acting a little boggy'er than I would have expected in that size wood. I can't hear #### on videos, but I'd check the tune. Do you ride a motorcycle?


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## twochains

HuskStihl said:


> I thought you cut purdy good, ol' son! I also thought your 460 was acting a little boggy'er than I would have expected in that size wood. I can't hear #### on videos, but I'd check the tune. Do you ride a motorcycle?



Thanks! Yes sir, I race cross country (Hare Scrambles A VET class)


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## 056 kid

twochains said:


> Just a vid I shot the other day...nothing spectacular. I still need to figure the camera angle a bit better. I know the vid is long but check out the big white oak near the end of the vid. I have never seen a tree with...umm...balls??...or are they boobs?? :msp_w00t: Thanks in advance if ya actually watch. Cheers!
> 
> FILE0003-1 - YouTube
> 
> Heres a short one cutting a shell
> 
> FILE0002-2 - YouTube



Cmon buddy your makin us look bad...


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## RandyMac

056 kid said:


> Cmon buddy your makin me look bad...



fixed


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## mdavlee

I know the regular out put oiler is a little stingy on a 32" in dry oak. The HO oiler did fine in the same settings on a 460.


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## 056 kid

Not bad.


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## twochains

mdavlee said:


> I know the regular out put oiler is a little stingy on a 32" in dry oak. The HO oiler did fine in the same settings on a 460.



Thanks! I'm going to see about getting a longer bar. I was just told earlier that we are moving to another site and this tract hasn't been cut before, supposed to have some good timber. 

I read alot on here about full and semi skip chains, any reason why say a 30" bar and semi skip chain won't be the ticket? What about brands of bars? I figure I will just get a Stihl brand.


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## twochains

056 kid said:


> Not bad.



Nice log!



(there is no reason to be hateful)


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## bitzer

twochains said:


> Thanks! I'm going to see about getting a longer bar. I was just told earlier that we are moving to another site and this tract hasn't been cut before, supposed to have some good timber.
> 
> I read alot on here about full and semi skip chains, any reason why say a 30" bar and semi skip chain won't be the ticket? What about brands of bars? I figure I will just get a Stihl brand.



Run full skip! I ran full comp for years and was alway told or thought it would be a little jumpy in hardwood. As usual just bs. I've put 250mbf on the ground since I've made the switch and it kicks ass! Very smooth and fast. I run round ground full chisel (not going sqaure until I buy a silvey). I'd run a 28" bar on that 460. It'll handle well and will still keep pace in hard maple (harder than hickory/oak imo). I think you'd want something in the 90cc range to run 32"+. That'll be next though. Buy a 390/660 and a 32" bar and really start puttin wood on the ground.

That shell white oak just needed a face and then rip er to the ground. From saw into the wood to tree on the ground in less than a minute kind of stuff. No need to be embarrassed. Thats how a lot of guys cut up here and how guys are taught to cut. Luckily I didn't have anyone to teach me. Makes you think a little more when you're on your own.


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## northmanlogging

See I've been debating whether to run full comp... always ran full skip unless the saw came with a comp or saftey chain... mostly cause they where easier to sharpen, but also since I seem to get a little more speed out of a skip chain in big soft woods...

Nice vids by the way...


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## tramp bushler

I really like semi skip. I really am not a fan of full comp I would rather run full skip than full comp. Full skip let's your saw keep it's r s up, which pumps more oil on the chain. The 460 is well built to scream. It's built to run at 14 grand and that's where I run mine. As long as they have a little bludder at the top free wheeling. That will clean up in the cut. Oregon makes 30" bars. Go with. 063 ga.. I run 8 tooth sprocket. I like chain speed. Less vibration!!!!! . 
The 460 s biggest problem IMO is the air filter needs cleaned twice a day. Or they start gasping for air. I run a MaxFlow in the summer.


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## mdavlee

Oregon, Stihl, sugihara, cannon, and tsumura make 30" bars.


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## tramp bushler

OK. I didn't know. Thanks.


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## Trx250r180

tramp bushler said:


> I really like semi skip. I really am not a fan of full comp I would rather run full skip than full comp. Full skip let's your saw keep it's r s up, which pumps more oil on the chain. The 460 is well built to scream. It's built to run at 14 grand and that's where I run mine. As long as they have a little bludder at the top free wheeling. That will clean up in the cut. Oregon makes 30" bars. Go with. 063 ga.. I run 8 tooth sprocket. I like chain speed. Less vibration!!!!! .
> The 460 s biggest problem IMO is the air filter needs cleaned twice a day. Or they start gasping for air. I run a MaxFlow in the summer.



i put filter covers on my hd filters now ,unless it slips off some they stay pretty clean,they repel water too View attachment 285922
View attachment 285923


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## tramp bushler

How does the air get in?


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## Trx250r180

tramp bushler said:


> How does the air get in?



its a breathable material ,air goes right through the black cover ,very little restriction ,on my chainsaw mill my reg hd old style gets plugged solid in a day ,i have a hd2 with a outer cover now ,i pull the cover to inspect and what ever dust is on it can tap with finger it falls off ,this is a very good product for the hd2 to keep from plugging upView attachment 285934
View attachment 285935
View attachment 285936
View attachment 285937


heres my 440 hybrid was cutting cedar with last sunday ,you can see it catches a lot of the dust ,some gets by the edge ,the bottom of the filter was totally clean and i was able to tap the filter on my tailgate to clean what got by,heres a pic in sun also to show can how air can get through


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## Metals406

At 6'-4" -- a 28" bar is where it starts to get comfy for me. And there ain't a whole lot of timber I get to cut in these parts where a guy would have to double-cut with one.

Run whatever you're comfortable with, don't feel pressured to buy longer iron. . . Unless ya want to. 

Like Bitz and some other fellas have said though, it's much faster to always be 'tip-out' in wood. Lot's of good reasons IMHO to not fall timber like the Europeans. Which is not a sleight against them, they've developed some cool techniques and tools.

But then again, if you're trained up and skilled with a 20" bar, you can knock it in the head as good as a guy with a long bar.

Ol Wade don't do a whole bunch of messing around, he just pounds some trees into the dirt. He ain't a little fella either.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ZyPLSsJFPTc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


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## Metals406

Oh, and I called HAV Inc. yesterday, and a 28" Sugi (Sugihara) fer mah 044, and one fer mah 385xp is $132.40 and $12.00 a piece to ship.

I reckon for as much good as a guy hears about them, that ain't a bad price for a reduced weight bar.

Oh, that's for .050", .375" BTW.


----------



## HuskStihl

Metals406 said:


> Ol Wade don't do a whole bunch of messing around, he just pounds some trees into the dirt.
> 
> I wish I bored that smooth. I also wish helmet cam videos didn't make me feel like puking!


----------



## mdavlee

Metals406 said:


> Oh, and I called HAV Inc. yesterday, and a 28" Sugi (Sugihara) fer mah 044, and one fer mah 385xp is $132.40 and $12.00 a piece to ship.
> 
> I reckon for as much good as a guy hears about them, that ain't a bad price for a reduced weight bar.
> 
> Oh, that's for .050", .375" BTW.



You can get stihl light bars for that out here. 

If you leave the filter cover off the dust won't pack in there near as bad. That's the only way to run stihls so the air filter doesn't pack up in a few hours.


----------



## Metals406

mdavlee said:


> You can get stihl light bars for that out here.
> 
> If you leave the filter cover off the dust won't pack in there near as bad. That's the only way to run stihls so the air filter doesn't pack up in a few hours.



I imagine the filter comment was fer earlier, and fer someone else?


----------



## Metals406

twochains said:


> Thanks! I'm going to see about getting a longer bar. I was just told earlier that we are moving to another site and this tract hasn't been cut before, supposed to have some good timber.
> 
> I read alot on here about full and semi skip chains, any reason why say a 30" bar and semi skip chain won't be the ticket? What about brands of bars? I figure I will just get a Stihl brand.



Hey, I forgot to ask. . . What camera are you using?


----------



## Trx250r180

mdavlee said:


> You can get stihl light bars for that out here.
> 
> If you leave the filter cover off the dust won't pack in there near as bad. That's the only way to run stihls so the air filter doesn't pack up in a few hours.



sometimes ............well a lot of sometimes it rains here ,covers are good to have ,this was clean before a couple hours of cutting View attachment 285981
View attachment 285982


----------



## mdavlee

Metals406 said:


> I imagine the filter comment was fer earlier, and fer someone else?



Yeah well it was. I was busy today with a job interview so I was trying to catch up for all day. 

If it's raining or snow around I guess it wouldn't be a good idea to just run a filter.


----------



## Metals406

mdavlee said:


> Yeah well it was. I was busy today with a job interview so I was trying to catch up for all day.
> 
> If it's raining or snow around I guess it wouldn't be a good idea to just run a filter.



Job interview?? Did Ron Jeremy finally retire then? :msp_tongue:


----------



## rwoods

I see ole Wade has two yellow wedges at his disposal. Nice ground. Ron


----------



## twochains

Metals406 said:


> Hey, I forgot to ask. . . What camera are you using?



Contour 1080p. I mainly shoot riding vids, and since 95% of what I ride/race in is dense woods, I like the slimmer profile of the Contour as opposed to the GoPro. The sound is dulled on purpose, when at race speed the wind will destroy your vid so I put clear tape over the microphone. I wasn't sure if the "right in your face" engine of the chainsaw would do some distortion or not, so I left the tape on. Check out some of my riding vids if ya want. The ones with the most views are generally better. The vids listed as Trailriding at Colby's parts 1 and 2 are decent. I am on the blue bike, if you see a red bike it is Colby and I am wearing the camera. No race vids...I don't wear a camera racing to to possible lost of camera and loosing position due to trying to re-mount the camera. The little boy on the mini quad is my son he was 9 and 10 in those vids. Haven't mounted the camera on him just yet. Thanks for asking!


----------



## tramp bushler

Metals406 said:


> I imagine the filter comment was fer earlier, and fer someone else?



How many times did u watch that vid. Your starting to talk like that guy. :msp_tongue:


----------



## Metals406

twochains said:


> Contour 1080p. I mainly shoot riding vids, and since 95% of what I ride/race in is dense woods, I like the slimmer profile of the Contour as opposed to the GoPro. The sound is dulled on purpose, when at race speed the wind will destroy your vid so I put clear tape over the microphone. I wasn't sure if the "right in your face" engine of the chainsaw would do some distortion or not, so I left the tape on. Check out some of my riding vids if ya want. The ones with the most views are generally better. The vids listed as Trailriding at Colby's parts 1 and 2 are decent. I am on the blue bike, if you see a red bike it is Colby and I am wearing the camera. No race vids...I don't wear a camera racing to to possible lost of camera and loosing position due to trying to re-mount the camera. The little boy on the mini quad is my son he was 9 and 10 in those vids. Haven't mounted the camera on him just yet. Thanks for asking!



So far from the comparison vids I watch, the Sony has the best audio of them all, but lacks here and there with the video. The video is still plenty good though, and the better sound is a good trade. Muffled audio can get as annoying as distorted audio from bikes or saws.


----------



## Metals406

tramp bushler said:


> How many times did u watch that vid. Your starting to talk like that guy. :msp_tongue:



LOL

I always talk/type this way. :msp_razz:


----------



## Rounder

Metals406 said:


> LOL
> 
> I always talk/type this way. :msp_razz:



You got-dang Montucky Hillbilly.


----------



## Plankton

Some pines cutting for lowgrade.











































And a short video of one:
Timber Falling life bridge - YouTube


----------



## bitzer

Not bad Dan. The only thing I'd say is make some space between you and the tree as its going over. I almost got clobbered twice yesterday. The first one knocked my hat off and caught my shoulder and the second was a catapulted oak limb that definetely would have done some damage. It came back over the stump a ways. Get yer saw outa there too! Looks like fun though!


----------



## Metals406

bitzer said:


> Not bad Dan. The only thing I'd say is make some space between you and the tree as its going over. I almost got clobbered twice yesterday. The first one knocked my hat off and caught my shoulder and the second was a catapulted oak limb that definetely would have done some damage. It came back over the stump a ways. Get yer saw outa there too! Looks like fun though!



I agree with the stump distance thing, but at the same time. . .

He's got some shallow faces in there -- in frozen and semi-frozen wood -- if he starts to walk away, and that closes on him before the hinge is super small. . . It might could chair on him.

If you face them like that you're pretty obligated to stay in them and cut them off as they go over.

Now, if a guy is putting a MacKendrick Humboldt in a tree, that sure helps fer getting out of there if you need to. :msp_razz:


----------



## RandyMac

Always use enough undercut.


----------



## Metals406

RandyMac said:


> Always use enough undercut.



Funny story Randy!

Me an Cody were working up that fir I posted (and he posted) about on FB. We were talking faces, and I said, "Yeah, if I feel comfortable enough to stay in it, and cut it off. . . I'll scratch a shallow face in'er -- if not -- I throw a good _MacKendrick face™_ in it, so I can scoot out'a there."

Now, Cody being the learned and traveled Timberbeast he is, looked at me funny and said, "What's a _MacKendrick face™_?"

I said, "You ain't never seen Randy's pictures? *STEEP AND DEEP DUDE!*" Hahaha

Now you're even more famous than you were before. Hahaha


----------



## RandyMac




----------



## 056 kid

4'7" poplar


----------



## madhatte

RandyMac said:


>



What's up with that salmon climbing a fish ladder there?


----------



## twochains

RandyMac said:


> Always use enough undercut.



RandyMac- Is that you in the pics? Whoever it is, that is pretty awesome! What year was that pic taken? What brand and c.c. is that saw?? Thanks for sharing!


----------



## RandyMac

twochains said:


> RandyMac- Is that you in the pics? Whoever it is, that is pretty awesome! What year was that pic taken? What brand and c.c. is that saw?? Thanks for sharing!



Nope, not me, that is a kid named Ted. The saw is a McCulloch CP125, I think this was taken in the mid 1980s, during the Great Maxxam slaughter.


----------



## twochains

It's a very cool pic!! Thanks


----------



## 056 kid

5'.


----------



## Metals406

056 kid said:


> 5'.



60 inches!?

Is that measuring from the exposed root on the left, to the one on the right? :msp_razz:


----------



## 056 kid

Cross the stump. Widest point read 5 feet even on the tape...


----------



## twochains

056 kid- what kind of timber are you in? Is it Poplar?


----------



## jrcat

056 kid said:


> Cross the stump. Widest point read 5 feet even on the tape...



What specie is that?


----------



## hammerlogging

Ya, poplar.


----------



## 056 kid

What he said.


----------



## ReggieT

RandyMac said:


>



BIG BALLS!  AWESOME AS HELL!:msp_thumbup:


----------



## bitzer

Dammit Randy always gotta flaunt those big timber pics makin mine look puny!

Nice pics Kid!

Clear cutting a house site. Good thing too. We had frost in the ground until last weekend. Its rained several inches this week. Yep upper 30s and low 40s with steady rain. My guess is this timber hasn't been cut for 120- 150 years. 











The saw is exactly 4'. I know that cause I use it to measure my 8' pulp sticks. 











To me there really is nothing like releasing a suspended log! I love how it hops off the buck! Sorry for the blurry pic. It was raining like a ##### that day. 






View attachment 289879

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----------



## Metals406

bitzer said:


> Dammit Randy always gotta flaunt those big timber pics makin mine look puny!
> 
> Nice pics Kid!
> 
> Clear cutting a house site. Good thing too. We had frost in the ground until last weekend. Its rained several inches this week. Yep upper 30s and low 40s with steady rain. My guess is this timber hasn't been cut for 120- 150 years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The saw is exactly 4'. I know that cause I use it to measure my 8' pulp sticks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To me there really is nothing like releasing a suspended log! I love how it hops off the buck! Sorry for the blurry pic. It was raining like a ##### that day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 289879
> 
> View attachment 289880
> 
> View attachment 289881
> 
> View attachment 289882
> 
> View attachment 289883



That's some creamy stuff you're in now! That'll make fer a fine day of cut'n and buck'n.


----------



## bitzer

Metals406 said:


> That's some creamy stuff you're in now! That'll make fer a fine day of cut'n and buck'n.



Yeah its cutting out pretty well! I forgot how much fuel a guy can burn through! I think I was born to cut big timber. Now if only they were about three times as tall...


----------



## bitzer

Got 5 twelves out of this basswood. I was pretty surprised for flat ground. 





The oaks in here aren't super tall just fat. Maybe 30 to 40 feet of logs in the main leader. They've all got logs in the tops as long as they don't bust up too bad though. I had 50 feet of logs in the tallest one so far. 





Cutting the far side off of this one allowed it to roll more than swing I think, but it laid crotch flat. She was all lean and crown weight. 





This washed out of the bank of the new driveway! I sent a picture to my cousin and he sends back that I should pound that ####er! 






View attachment 290076

View attachment 290077

View attachment 290078

View attachment 290079


----------



## 056 kid

Boss man found a mason jar of spirits in the woods a month or so back. It was a little weak, but was fun to drink.


----------



## tramp bushler

Who knows who had their kisser on that last...... YUK.


----------



## northmanlogging

sniff it first, alcohol kills every germ out there, and most natural poisons, but not the band... Is that because coke is alcohols antidote?


----------



## northmanlogging

define funny colors?


----------



## jrcat

I'm a little more nutty. I will typically jump in first and go for it lol.


----------



## Metals406

I just cut down two, dead, small fir trees. . .

I got home and sat down. The wife came over to me and started smelling me all over, and said "Mmmmm, 2-stoke and wood." I'll probably get lucky now. :msp_ohmy:

Eat yer hearts out. :msp_tongue:


----------



## bert0168

Metals406 said:


> 2-stoke and wood




....then what?


----------



## bitzer

Good luck Nate! 


I smelt the whisky first and she smelled all right. I'm thinkin its been there a while. Crown is usually darker than that. I saw my cousin at a party tonight and he said who the hell would toss that out the window? I said I bet somebody was getting tailed by the fuzz and had to ditch the evidence. 

Hey Ted- how does that poplar cut? Is it kind of like basswood or more like ash? I cut some really nice tall straight big tooth aspen a few weeks ago. They went over like pine. Slow and easy, crown weight not being much of a factor.


----------



## madhatte

bitzer said:


>



No purple bag? What a rip-off! I'd send it back.


----------



## 056 kid

bitzer said:


> Good luck Nate!
> 
> 
> I smelt the whisky first and she smelled all right. I'm thinkin its been there a while. Crown is usually darker than that. I saw my cousin at a party tonight and he said who the hell would toss that out the window? I said I bet somebody was getting tailed by the fuzz and had to ditch the evidence.
> 
> Hey Ted- how does that poplar cut? Is it kind of like basswood or more like ash? I cut some really nice tall straight big tooth aspen a few weeks ago. They went over like pine. Slow and easy, crown weight not being much of a factor.



It's similar to both, just a lot more moisture. I'd say basswood is closer. A lot of The poplars have real small crowns. Some of them have a bunch of hooter limbs reaching out on one side. They turn pretty well, but its not hard to loose one if you don't have things opened up good and proper.
Mackendrik slogan fits in Poplar's case...


----------



## tramp bushler

Poplar and cottonwood swing fine but only ( reliably) with a good sis wheel. I use a kerf Dutchman and a siswheel on any that I need to swing more than 30° from their lean.


----------



## bitzer

056 kid said:


> It's similar to both, just a lot more moisture. I'd say basswood is closer. A lot of The poplars have real small crowns. Some of them have a bunch of hooter limbs reaching out on one side. They turn pretty well, but its not hard to loose one if you don't have things opened up good and proper.
> Mackendrik slogan fits in Poplar's case...




I'll bet they bushel up pretty quick and are fun to cut. Thanks for the info!


----------



## bitzer

tramp bushler said:


> Poplar and cottonwood swing fine but only ( reliably) with a good sis wheel. I use a kerf Dutchman and a siswheel on any that I need to swing more than 30° from their lean.



Around here our popple (poplar) are big tooth aspen, quaking aspen, cottonwood, and anything else that may resemble them. Big tooth can make some nice logs if you get into a decent patch. Cottonwood are only found along road sides, fence lines, old farms, etc. Although I have seen a couple of big bastards in low areas near swamps and rivers. The decent popple will grow right in with the upland hardwoods.


----------



## bitzer

Big tooth aspen from about a month ago.






They practically limb themselves and they usually stay on the stump pretty well for me with just a dutchman.





A little quaking aspen clear cut I did a few weeks back. 





There were some logs at the bottom of the hill. Funny how the tops of the bottom trees made it to the tops of the top trees. I cut 12 cords of pulp and 3mbf in 3 hours that day. Everything was pretty much laying up the hill or coaxed up with a dutchman. Just zippn em right off.





View attachment 290409

View attachment 290410

View attachment 290411

View attachment 290412


----------



## 056 kid

6' across the longest part of the stump.


----------



## tramp bushler

For scale we have to measure them perpendicular to the face
Really sucks in oval shaped snags that need to be kept in leade when the narrow part is the hinge.


----------



## twochains

kid- that is super nice and a really nice stump!


----------



## OlympicYJ

tramp bushler said:


> For scale we have to measure them perpendicular to the face
> Really sucks in oval shaped snags that need to be kept in leade when the narrow part is the hinge.



Hey Glen I'm a little confused as what you're trying to say. Could you expand on that? When scaling if I remember correctly you measure the narrowest and widest points on the butt then average the two for those oval shaped ones(possibly more than one measurement for each narrow and wide point but cannot remember off the top of my head.) I would imagine the same would apply in busheling.

Wes


----------



## DavdH

I'm pretty sure he means scale to be paid by the bushel (thousand), not scale for the timber to be sold and paid for. Not real common any more as there isn't much bushelling going on in Alaska anymore. Scale is from the small end, less defect and applied by many various rules and local conventions.


----------



## tramp bushler

Ya, the cutter does his scale for what he cut. The bull Buck checks that. . What the faller cut mostly is ALOT MORE than what gets to the sortin yard . For tower loggin ya pretty much made expenses with your merchant scale and made your profit on your cull scale. Some camps you could square the stump. But mostly it was a waste of time IMO. The problem with scaling is it takes time, measuring and writing. When LP broke the union in Southeast they went to cutting contractors. Some of them were extremely, shall we say Frugal. . 

Thumbin never really pays. And u could get away with not working up some tops if you bucked the logs out of most of the tree clean. Get the root completely cut off. Basically didn't make the rigging rats job any harder or more dangerous than it already was. If you left a coupling it either got broke by the next tree u fell . Or as soon as the log moved it dropped free. I never had a rigging man complain about my cutting. But some of the guys that made more money than me did.


----------



## bitzer

Great lookin stump Ted! How many feet of logs are you getting out of those? Linear feet I mean.


My wife stopped out with the kids the other day after school. This job is only a few miles down the road from my house. They wanted to see their old man lay one out.
















With the rain we've been having the trucker and I agreed it would be a bad idea for him to run down the new driveway. Loose fill with 10-12 inches of breaker run wasn't going to do it. Man I've got some looky-lous on this road. 





View attachment 290998


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----------



## OlympicYJ

DavdH said:


> I'm pretty sure he means scale to be paid by the bushel (thousand), not scale for the timber to be sold and paid for. Not real common any more as there isn't much bushelling going on in Alaska anymore. Scale is from the small end, less defect and applied by many various rules and local conventions.



Meant to say small end but the ole brain wasn't functioning at the time.


----------



## tramp bushler

Snags, well all cull scale was based on a set length. Most outfits had a longer log for standing snags than for root cuts or rigging cuts, school moms or break cuts. . That would be the diameter at that length scribner. I made plenty of money with hemlock snag stobs :msp_smile:


----------



## bitzer

I need to by a decent camera. Anyway the left leader was a ways behind the right. She came around better than I thought. 2 tens out of the butt. 3 eights out of the left and a fourteen out of the right leader. If she would have laid crotch down like it looked like it wanted to it would've split bad. 
[video=youtube;SQNDhqA_Huw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQNDhqA_Huw[/video]


----------



## bitzer

A little closer than I thought. 
[video=youtube;LY3FA9T2l-I]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LY3FA9T2l-I[/video]


----------



## RandyMac

You rock Bitz!


----------



## bitzer

RandyMac said:


> You rock Bitz!



Thank you sir! So both videos worked? Damn computer is being weird. I've got a video of a bigger one tippin, but its so frickin grainy. Pisses me off enough to buy a decent camera and pack it around. 

Heres that bigger one bucked up. The butt log is bucked in that second video. It made 4 10s and a 12. Easily a 1000bfer. Probably more.







Added some footage to the sale on this one. Stumped a maple on the right and had to fall the basswood on the left. She was still on her toes. It sure is a funny feeling when the rootwad is lifting during the backcut just before the tree releases. 





Yep, April snow. I guess its better than the rain!




View attachment 291596

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----------



## 056 kid

lol I just cut them down. if there was really some money in it I would probably know. it probably won't even go to the mill why, I have no idea. seems to be that if the footage is not perfect it doesn't make the grade so it gets thrown down to the woods. Greed I guess it is.


----------



## tramp bushler

That rootwad lifting when backing up a tree gets real lively on steep ground after an extra amount of rain. I remember 1 spruce that lifted about 3 ft before I got it turned loose. 
Bitz ; your saw sounds good. I only got the 2 nd vid. Kept getting redirected to the next page when I would click on the first one


----------



## Samlock

Here you go, Glen.

[video=youtube;SQNDhqA_Huw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=SQNDhqA_Huw[/video]


----------



## tramp bushler

Hey Cool. Thanks!! Nice sounding saw. I can hear his 2 size file job. I guess I gotta get me one of those 390 s


----------



## forestryworks

056 kid said:


> lol I just cut them down. if there was really some money in it I would probably know. it probably won't even go to the mill why, I have no idea. seems to be that if the footage is not perfect it doesn't make the grade so it gets thrown down to the woods. Greed I guess it is.



I seem to remember another large poplar pic Joe posted a couple years ago - said the mills didn't take it. Was 6' or so.

If a mill isn't taking any oversize, why cut it? I'd be moving on to the next money-making tree.


----------



## 056 kid

That thing occupied a huge area in the canopy, I wasent going to fight with it, hangers and chit going out of lead. Mowing that tree down didn't take more than a few minutes, working it up was where the time was. 
Plus its just fun to dump a big one..


----------



## tramp bushler

It's too bad really , poplar makes a nice board. A.d one that size would make a great slab table with a glass top.


----------



## OlympicYJ

Hey 056, was that a Yellow Poplar or an Eastern Cottonwood? If it were a Yellow I would imagine it would be worth some money to a custom miller selling specialty wood like glen was saying. As I understand it big Yellow Pop is not very common anymore...


----------



## forestryworks

OlympicYJ said:


> Hey 056, was that a Yellow Poplar or an Eastern Cottonwood?



_Liriodendron tulipifera_ 



> If it were a Yellow I would imagine it would be worth some money to a custom miller selling specialty wood like glen was saying.



Yup.



> As I understand it big Yellow Pop is not very common anymore...



And yup again. Makes sense to leave the big ones if there's not many left, nor hardly a commercial market, yes? 

But I digress, I'm just a prairie restoration tech, prescribed fire tech, and hazard tree faller all rolled into one. What would I know?


----------



## OlympicYJ

Was thinkin Liriodendron, figured I'd leave the scientifics out of it lol although question is, is it bastard growth or nice tight grained? If its a bastard prob not desirable for the specialty guy. What 56 did makes sense but I agree at the same time kind of a shame it went. Not knockin ya 56 just the forester in me comin out... I love killin the big ones as much as anyone.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


----------



## northmanlogging

heres a couple from today, was going to take video... but thats just bad luck and it was two stems grown together... plus I was gut deep in brush


----------



## hammerlogging

OlympicYJ said:


> Was thinkin Liriodendron, figured I'd leave the scientifics out of it lol although question is, is it bastard growth or nice tight grained? If its a bastard prob not desirable for the specialty guy. What 56 did makes sense but I agree at the same time kind of a shame it went. Not knockin ya 56 just the forester in me comin out... I love killin the big ones as much as anyone.
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2



Actuallly cutting that big crappy timber is the best thing a forester or faller can do here- open the ground for regen of something useful. If a butt log is 10' technically, but double hearted for 6' of it, its a 4' log, which doesn't exist. Yes, you could specialty slab it but poplar is not tabletop material. The color is dark in big old field poplar, its oversize to load, to haul, and its a pain at the mill. there could have been 700 bf that was utilized in that tree-, each fork, plus about 5 sticks of pulpwood, all low quality, but paying, and used. But that butt chunk, likely will not make it out of the woods. Its not greed, its common sense.


----------



## bitzer

Thanks Glen! My rakes were a little low that day. I do em on my grinder and sometimes they get a touch low when I'm tired. She did sound a bit jumpy.



Hey Ted, You'd think they'd at least have you buck it when it starts to become merch size again. But then again maybe its just crap at that point. The low stump to save out other trees? If not I'd be banging those ####ers about waist high if they are just gonna lay.


----------



## hammerlogging

bitzer said:


> Thanks Glen! My rakes were a little low that day. I do em on my grinder and sometimes they get a touch low when I'm tired. She did sound a bit jumpy.
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Ted, You'd think they'd at least have you buck it when it starts to become merch size again. But then again maybe its just crap at that point. The low stump to save out other trees? If not I'd be banging those ####ers about waist high if they are just gonna lay.



I'dbet merch was bucked out and used .


----------



## RandyMac

I saw plenty of big DFs left because of pitch rings, there was a fair amount of good wood between those rings.


----------



## OlympicYJ

hammerlogging said:


> Actuallly cutting that big crappy timber is the best thing a forester or faller can do here- open the ground for regen of something useful. If a butt log is 10' technically, but double hearted for 6' of it, its a 4' log, which doesn't exist. Yes, you could specialty slab it but poplar is not tabletop material. The color is dark in big old field poplar, its oversize to load, to haul, and its a pain at the mill. there could have been 700 bf that was utilized in that tree-, each fork, plus about 5 sticks of pulpwood, all low quality, but paying, and used. But that butt chunk, likely will not make it out of the woods. Its not greed, its common sense.



Gotcha on the defect. Wasn't assuming it was a perfect tree. Just making an observation. Why I threw in the bastard growth comment. Seen some nice spruce go for pulp. Nice sizewise but too wide of rings for anything other than pulp. Like I said I get why it was cut, not meant as a criticism at all. And you are correct had thought about the regen issue. If left it would most likely establish seedlings around it which if it isn't worth much on the market it then becomes a PITA. Just curious why is it not table material? I don't know much about Liriodendron's wood properties.


----------



## bitzer

hammerlogging said:


> I'dbet merch was bucked out and used .



That's kind of what I figured. Utilization.


----------



## OlympicYJ

RandyMac said:


> I saw plenty of big DFs left because of pitch rings, there was a fair amount of good wood between those rings.



And plenty of peelers were burned up in donkey firebox's before they had a market... The standards keep a slippin. I've seen some gold label lumber that was absolute crap that I wouldn't want in my house! The quality is starting to come back... sort of. Example, Weyco is switching to a slower growing seedling that's less prone to sinuosity than their super seedlings they've been stubbin everywhere.... it's a start. Once the China market becomes more quality conscience then you may see a better product in the future but at the present cheap lumber is the order of the day. Plus that wafer board, particle board crap doesn't need good quality timber to make and it's cheap. Keeps the home builders in business when that stuff falls apart...


----------



## tramp bushler

Ahh, don't knock OSB its stable and darn near deminsionally perfect . . Also it doesn't have voids in it. The only plywood that doesn't have voids is marine plywood and that's too spendy to go into a house.. prplly the same glue used in it as is used in plywood. Especially since a lot of plywood is made from piss fir.


----------



## OlympicYJ

No doubt some of it is good stuff but I'm livin in an RV trailer and have 3 cabinet doors with screws that pulled out of the craptastic particle board. Granted wafer board and OSB is better and OSB is better than wafer but I just don't care for it as much. The moisture just gets inside it and it starts to deteriorate after many years. I grew up in an old house with Old Growth fir and hemlock studs with cedar tongue and groove on the wall. That baby breaths and has always had a good roof on it so there is no deterioration after somewhere around 90yrs. It's sure go up in flames pretty darn quick though.

Got a question for ya Glen. A while back did you say you liked 30" bars over 32" on 372's?

Wes


----------



## roberte

tramp bushler said:


> Ahh, don't knock OSB its stable and darn near deminsionally perfect . . Also it doesn't have voids in it. The only plywood that doesn't have voids is marine plywood and that's too spendy to go into a house.. prplly the same glue used in it as is used in plywood. Especially since a lot of plywood is made from piss fir.



todays OSB is not the 80's OSB. As for CDX you have to get Struc1 plywood to get something halfway decent. Unless your getting 1-1/8", still good stuff there


----------



## 056 kid

The butt log, I would like to see sawed. in my uneducated mind, a piece of wood is a piece of wood, some are nicer than others, but if there's boards in there they should get sawed. If all the gravy is cut and goes to the mill okay, what is the problem with sending stuff that is not gravy? Is it really that detrimental to a mill that often has a hard time getting wood to saw The lumber won't be as pretty but it will be lumber, sell that #### at a discount and add the $ to the pile. I guess I feel like if a tree is cut, every portion of said tree should be used if it indeed can be used. I can quarter that big butt log and they can send it to the pulp mill, I'll even do it on my own time so as not to waist good time out in the fell & buck.
But this is something I know nothing about. I just cut them and run them out to the first break. The big ones cut a lot easier for me. Big trees like that, il get my cuts aligned first time almost every time, gunned right, undercuts fall out with no beating, back cuts right on the $$, Like I have done it in a past life or something..


----------



## 056 kid

forestryworks said:


> _Liriodendron tulipifera_
> 
> 
> 
> Yup.
> 
> 
> 
> And yup again. Makes sense to leave the big ones if there's not many left, nor hardly a commercial market, yes?
> 
> But I digress, I'm just a prairie restoration tech, prescribed fire tech, and hazard tree faller all rolled into one. What would I know?



Tell me how you really feel Jameson.


----------



## 056 kid

OlympicYJ said:


> Hey 056, was that a Yellow Poplar or an Eastern Cottonwood? If it were a Yellow I would imagine it would be worth some money to a custom miller selling specialty wood like glen was saying. As I understand it big Yellow Pop is not very common anymore...



Yellow poplar as others said. It would be cool to make some big slabs just to see what they look like.
As for biguns, yea there are not a whole lot right now, but there are plenty that are well on their way. 
Contrary to that, I am constantly seeing big ass timber tucked away on govt land...


----------



## tramp bushler

OlympicYJ said:


> Got a question for ya Glen. A while back did you say you liked 30" bars over 32" on 372's?
> 
> Wes



The 30" balance better. The only part of me that doesn't like 30" anymore is my back. My back REALLY likes 36" bars. You get more chain speed with a 30" over a 32 .
I find that the older and stiffer I get the more I get top of the tip kick backs from the 30+32" bars. If I was busheling with a 372 I would run 30 s and take lots of ibuprofen. 8 tooth semi skip. Chisel ground.


----------



## OlympicYJ

Thanks tramp. Sell in my 32" Sugi to a buddy and getting a husky mount bar. Either goin with a Cannon or a Tsumura lightweight. Thinkin .63 ga 3/8. 30" be fine since I'm short lol

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


----------



## tramp bushler

Cannon bars and 372 Huskies IMO don't go together. Cannons are great bars but they weigh a ton. Even tho Ron Hull used to bushel with one and cut like a raped ape the saw was still out of balance. They were the Woodsman Pro bars made by Cannon.
I'de go with the Tsumara L W. Defiantly 63 ga. 
The 32" will be a little easier to be a bit more accurate when falling. But for everything else the 30 is sweet.


----------



## OlympicYJ

tramp bushler said:


> Cannon bars and 372 Huskies IMO don't go together. Cannons are great bars but they weigh a ton. Even tho Ron Hull used to bushel with one and cut like a raped ape the saw was still out of balance. They were the Woodsman Pro bars made by Cannon.
> I'de go with the Tsumara L W. Defiantly 63 ga.
> The 32" will be a little easier to be a bit more accurate when falling. But for everything else the 30 is sweet.



Duly noted on the Cannon's I'll have to see what the lengths are in the Tsumuras. I wanna say they make a 30 and not a 32 but can't remember. Thanks for the advice!


----------



## hammerlogging

056 kid said:


> The butt log, I would like to see sawed. in my uneducated mind, a piece of wood is a piece of wood, some are nicer than others, but if there's boards in there they should get sawed. If all the gravy is cut and goes to the mill okay, what is the problem with sending stuff that is not gravy? Is it really that detrimental to a mill that often has a hard time getting wood to saw The lumber won't be as pretty but it will be lumber, sell that #### at a discount and add the $ to the pile. I guess I feel like if a tree is cut, every portion of said tree should be used if it indeed can be used. I can quarter that big butt log and they can send it to the pulp mill, I'll even do it on my own time so as not to waist good time out in the fell & buck.
> But this is something I know nothing about. I just cut them and run them out to the first break. The big ones cut a lot easier for me. Big trees like that, il get my cuts aligned first time almost every time, gunned right, undercuts fall out with no beating, back cuts right on the $$, Like I have done it in a past life or something..



In short, I'm more concerned with the silvicultural implications of the cut than the utilization. who is to say scrap is wasted if its left to decay and renew the soil, provide habitat, etc. As well, it doesn't take long to figure out that, no matter how good it feels, operating at a net loss takes the "sustainable" right out of the "sustainable renewable resource" equation. BUT, it probably could be slabbed and sold for a profit, but its not really a profit, if you look at opportunity cost, which is, again, why its left. Sorry, its just not that nice out there.


----------



## Spotted Owl

OlympicYJ said:


> Duly noted on the Cannon's I'll have to see what the lengths are in the Tsumuras. I wanna say they make a 30 and not a 32 but can't remember. Thanks for the advice!



I'm not that old yet and my Cannons went to the neighbor kid, he's still gung ho and macho about working hard all day. Gotta feel the burn he says. Them suckers get heavy for me and wear out my left elbow somethin fierce. I just ordered up a Tsumura 32" and 36" with an extra tip. Going to test run these a while and see. I personally didn't like the Stihl Lite enough for the price. 

May have been a fluke or a bad apple but the rails were shot in short order, and the insert twisted in the pocket, the dealer took it back, refunded then sent it back. If your down to Farley's in June I'll bring a 36 on an 066 and a 32 on a 460. Both Tsu lites. 

Tramp ain't kidding about the back liking a longer bar either, short or not, try them both side by side for a day if you can, seems a lot easier towards the tail end of the day to keep your nose clean with the extra couple inches.



Owl


----------



## tramp bushler

Good to know about the Stihl Lite bars.


----------



## Metals406

Haywire said:


>



You need more snow in yer picture. :msp_sneaky:


----------



## Metals406

Haywire said:


> Yeah, Sunday morning was quite a surprise, eh? We had about a half foot of fresh powder up here. At least it goes away fast this time of year.
> Gonna be living in our tent here soon, so I hope it stops snowing!



Are you guys gonna seriously tent it for a while? That'd be kind'a fun!

Just have to camp next to WIFI for her, and you're good to go!


----------



## jrcat

Just for the uneducated... What is with the block of wood? Is it burning and what is with the cuts in it?


----------



## Metals406

jrcat said:


> Just for the uneducated... What is with the block of wood? Is it burning and what is with the cuts in it?



https://www.google.com/search?q=swe...rome.0.57j0l3.3917j0&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8


----------



## jrcat

That's awesome. I will have to try that.


----------



## jrcat

Metals406 said:


> https://www.google.com/search?q=swe...rome.0.57j0l3.3917j0&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8



Thank you for posting that link btw.


----------



## Metals406

jrcat said:


> Thank you for posting that link btw.



No problem!

They're great for cooking on while out in the woods or at camp, and can even made by bundling (how they were done originally).


----------



## bitzer

Way up nort dey got twen-tee won eenches of snohw a few dayz back. Yep they really talk like that up there. 

Anyway last couple from this big timber lot clearing job. Things are drying up good and I will be starting a 60mbfer next week. Good production wood- 18-24 inches on the stump. Easy to cut, easy to toss around. Just pounding em out. I'm gonna miss sleepin in and putzin a little though. 


Sorry no video to watch my flawless dismount! 






I had to swing this one to keep it out of the swamp hence the board switch. If they'd been leaning right I could have easily got em from one side. I can see what you guys mean about a good board though. Standing out a ways on it she would creak a little too much for my liking. I think a red elm board would be great. They are awfully stringy and flexible yet strong even when dry. 






View attachment 292204

View attachment 292205


----------



## Metals406

Bitz, your attachments didn't take -- I can't see your pictures.


----------



## bitzer

Metals406 said:


> Bitz, your attachments didn't take -- I can't see your pictures.



Thanks! I'll try this again. 

Pic 1 from above.











View attachment 292206


View attachment 292207


----------



## tramp bushler

Hey Bitz ; your in the chips now :msp_biggrin:

As a general rule I just rip a board from an understory tree right there. You don't have t fall it. Works best if you don't actually. That one that got blown up out in front looks like 
it would have worked well. Just rip the side off it. Then bore thru and rip down again. Then just cut the board out. Leave the rest of it standing. I like to use the lower part to go into the spring board hole. Around 5' is a pretty good length. 

Looks great tho. Ya dun goot


----------



## OlympicYJ

I think Bitz had a shoe on his board. Can't wait to get home and start modifyin the old mans board and maybe makin one of my own!


----------



## tramp bushler

Looks like just a blue wedge


----------



## 056 kid

bitzer said:


> Way up nort dey got twen-tee won eenches of snohw a few dayz back. Yep they really talk like that up there. O
> Anyway last couple from this big timber lot clearing job. Things are drying up good and I will be starting a 60mbfer next week. Good production wood- 18-24 inches on the stump. Easy to cut, easy to toss around. Just pounding em out. I'm gonna miss sleepin in and putzin a little though.
> 
> 
> Sorry no video to watch my flawless dismount!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had to swing this one to keep it out of the swamp hence the board switch. If they'd been leaning right I could have easily got em from one side. I can see what you guys mean about a good board though. Standing out a ways on it she would creak a little too much for my liking. I think a red elm board would be great. They are awfully stringy and flexible yet strong even when dry.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 292204
> 
> View attachment 292205



You gotta learn how to saw under a Dutchman! It ain't hard.. nice spring board though.


----------



## OlympicYJ

Ah I went back and looked again. You're right. Thought he had one with a shoe.


----------



## HuskStihl

056 kid said:


> You gotta learn how to saw under a Dutchman! It ain't hard.. nice spring board though.



I was trying to act all cool and pretend I understand what the heck y'all were talking about, but I don't. Why shouldn't you swing a tree right while making the backcut from the left side?
Thx,
Jon


----------



## tramp bushler

If you cut under a kerf Dutchman when putting in/ completing your back cut. There's a lot less chance that fiber pull will grab your chain and the tree will take your saw away from you when it falls. 

Most of the time that's really really bad for the saw.

We need an avatar with a saw that's smashed.


----------



## HuskStihl

tramp bushler said:


> If you cut under a kerf Dutchman when putting in/ completing your back cut. There's a lot less chance that fiber pull will grab your chain and the tree will take your saw away from you when it falls.
> 
> Most of the time that's really really bad for the saw.
> 
> We need an avatar with a saw that's smashed.



Thanks for that TB. does that only apply to the kerf Dutchman, or will that also apply with a "step" Dutchman using a "rock" (whatever that is) or a piece of the face? I'm guessing turning is turning and it applies to both, but I'm sometimes wrong about falling stuff:msp_biggrin:

Thanks for explaining


----------



## tramp bushler

Different fallers do their steps differently sometimes. With the timber I fall I don't use steps to often. By the time my steps are working the tree is off to the races so the saw is Out of the backcut. Hopefully safe and sound.


----------



## bitzer

tramp bushler said:


> Hey Bitz ; your in the chips now :msp_biggrin:
> 
> As a general rule I just rip a board from an understory tree right there. You don't have t fall it. Works best if you don't actually. That one that got blown up out in front looks like
> it would have worked well. Just rip the side off it. Then bore thru and rip down again. Then just cut the board out. Leave the rest of it standing. I like to use the lower part to go into the spring board hole. Around 5' is a pretty good length.
> 
> Looks great tho. Ya dun goot



Thanks Glen! Yeah that board does have shoe on it. I made it a few years ago and never got around to using it. I've had time to goof around on this job while waiting for everything else to dry up so I figured I'd give er a try. Otherwise If I was cutting along on a regular day I'd try to make one out of a tree. That or just rip em apart. The only problem with that is you have to have em both ready to go otherwise trying to split one at a time the butt will bind and there you sit. 


Hey Ted I saw them off on the near side plenty, just didn't like the look of it when coming off the board like that. Some of the limbs had to come apart. I had time to putz anyway.

Husky- If you are cutting on your dutch side then you are cutting under the lean and where the tree will sit down. It could (probably won't) but could break off early into where you are standing or onto your saw. Anytime you are cutting the hinge off on one side you are relying on the holding wood on the other side to keep it on the stump. If the lean or crown weight is too much or the hinge wood is weak she could break off on you and come across the stump.


----------



## bitzer

This ash was leaning hard up the hill and I had no other timber up there to get so I figured toss it where I could reach it later. Usually they don't tear out this bad, but I've done this a lot with double stems. Works most of the time. Anyway as the butt is coming around it sits down where the hinge is cut off. I think with this one I reamed it as it sat. Sometimes I'll use a wedge to keep it open so I can keep cutting. It didn't have the momentum to bust up the dead crap in front of it. I get er down with the next one though :msp_biggrin:.

Yeah I know I take a lot of ####ing pictures... I figured when I'm old and grey I can put em all in a book and have something to look at. 






View attachment 292493


----------



## HuskStihl

bitzer said:


> Husky- If you are cutting on your dutch side then you are cutting under the lean and where the tree will sit down. It could (probably won't) but could break off early into where you are standing or onto your saw. Anytime you are cutting the hinge off on one side you are relying on the holding wood on the other side to keep it on the stump. If the lean or crown weight is too much or the hinge wood is weak she could break off on you and come across the stump.



Thanks Bitz, you are good at 'splainin stuff. I like my saws, but am very fond of my body, and don't want trees sitting on it. I honestly don't ever see myself ever doing a kerf dutchman. I don't fall that much, and I'd probably screw it up. I will stick a chunk of wood in the face to try to turn/steer a tree away from things I don't want to hit, but that's probably as "advanced" as I will ever get


----------



## Metals406

Bitz, you'll never see or hear me complain about pictures or vid'ya. opcorn:


----------



## tramp bushler

tramp bushler said:


> .
> 
> If I post any duplicates, sorry.
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> This is Sitka spruce. old growth. These ran 32-26" on the stump. I topped them between 70 and 85' up. then chunked them down to 20 some feet. I used my Jonsred 2150 for a climbing saw. on the first one I also had to use the 460 Stihl w/32" bar .. had a 18" bar on the jred. Probably not the perfect saws. but they got the job done pretty good.




Anyone know how to move a post into another thread?????


----------



## Gologit

tramp bushler said:


> Anyone know how to move a post into another thread?????



Leave it here if you want, it's fine. You can put the same pictures in any thread.


----------



## Gologit

Metals406 said:


> Bitz, you'll never see or hear me complain about pictures of vid'ya. opcorn:



Same here. I look at some of that stuff they have to drop, and not only drop but save out, and all I can think is "better them than me". 

I don't cut much hardwood and when I do it's mostly oak. I don't have to make them save out...good thing too. Those multi-stem monsters have had me running more than once.


----------



## tramp bushler

tramp bushler said:


> A couple pics from last Saturday
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Getting things ready.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Starting up.
> 
> 
> 
> .going up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ..
> 
> 
> 
> .
> Took me 2hours 20 min.



This is a post I want to move over to the arborist 101 forum. 
It sucks getting old And dumb!


----------



## Trx250r180

they sure look taller once the limbs are gone


----------



## Metals406

Gologit said:


> Same here. I look at some of that stuff they have to drop, and not only drop but save out, and all I can think is "better them than me".
> 
> I don't cut much hardwood and when I do it's mostly oak. I don't have to make them save out...good thing too. Those multi-stem monsters have had me running more than once.



My brothers, wifes, uncle. . . Logs back in east (PA?). He cuts some high value stems I guess.

On some of the stuff he doesn't want to break -- he'll climb them and take out a leader, or the whole top -- to not risk breaking at all.

I guess a guy can get into some cherry and whatnot on them private sales, that are 10k+ per tree. You don't bust up too many of them before I reckon you'd get tramped.


----------



## twochains

I hope like Hell that you guys who climb like that get paid VERY VERY WELL!!! ...I'd puke after 20 ft and I am not ashamed to admit it. That's amazing actually!


----------



## Metals406

You ain't dumb Glen! Far from it my friend.


----------



## Rounder

#### Glen, didn't anyone tell you it's easier just to throw the whole damn thing on the ground, then limb it? 

Cody does the same goofy ####, must just be an Alaskan Faller thing...

-Nice pics - Sam


----------



## RandyMac

Rounder said:


> #### Glen, didn't anyone tell you it's easier just to throw the whole damn thing on the ground, then limb it?
> 
> Cody does the same goofy ####, must just be an Alaskan Faller thing...
> 
> -Nice pics - Sam



Is Glenn short too?


----------



## Hddnis

Rounder said:


> #### Glen, didn't anyone tell you it's easier just to throw the whole damn thing on the ground, then limb it?
> 
> Cody does the same goofy ####, must just be an Alaskan Faller thing...
> 
> -Nice pics - Sam




Pays pretty good though for goofy ####. 




Mr. HE


----------



## northmanlogging

most of the good climbers I've met have all been on the short side of not tall... I've also met a bunch of short guys that like to stand on stuff when anybody taller then them is around... I wonder if its connected? :wink2:

I'm not a real good climber... just so ya know

And two chains climbing is hard work but not so bad... its more using muscles that you don't use real often and a whole bunch of em then anything... topping and limbing is not for the faint of heart though, but it is a lot of fun...


----------



## tramp bushler

RandyMac said:


> Is Glenn short too?




Glen is a whole 5'8" 255 pounds of muscle, guts and speed
:kilt::kilt:


----------



## tramp bushler

Those are pics from last summer 
I was trying t figure out how to attach them to a post. To put on another thread.
They changed photo bucket since I posted them. . I guess I need to get tapatalk. But Then I have to make sure I got my wallet with me when I sit down . . That's a lot of thinkin to do that I'm not getting paid for. :msp_thumbup::eek2::hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Rounder

tramp bushler said:


> Glen is a whole 5'8" 255 pounds of muscle, guts and speed
> :kilt::kilt:



Built as a timber faller should be....I'm a 5'11" 155 pound misfit with a bad back.


----------



## RandyMac

Rounder said:


> Built as a timber faller should be....I'm a 5'11" 155 pound misfit with a bad back.



I was 6'1" 165, buckers are supposed to be squatty.


----------



## tramp bushler

Rounder said:


> Built as a timber faller should be....I'm a 5'11" 155 pound misfit with a bad back.[/QUOTe
> 
> You need a longer bar.
> I had a bull buck that was so skinny he couldn't have weighed 145 . . The guy could nearly fly thru the brush and was a way faster cutter than me. . He couldn't pack a 15" Skookum RopeMaster tail block. But he could put the wood on the ground. .


----------



## Eccentric

RandyMac said:


> I was 6'1" 165, buckers are supposed to be squatty.



Ahhh.........


Now I understand why you said I'd make a good bucker a while back...:cool2:


----------



## twochains

Rounder said:


> Built as a timber faller should be....I'm a 5'11" 155 pound misfit with a bad back.



I don't know why you consider yourself a misfit at 5'11 155. I'm basically the same size and have never wanted to be any bigger. People built like us can go at a run all day.


----------



## 056 kid

Metals406 said:


> My brothers, wifes, uncle. . . Logs back in east (PA?). He cuts some high value stems I guess.
> 
> On some of the stuff he doesn't want to break -- he'll climb them and take out a leader, or the whole top -- to not risk breaking at all.
> 
> I guess a guy can get into some cherry and whatnot on them private sales, that are 10k+ per tree. You don't bust up too many of them before I reckon you'd get tramped.



Who told you that? 10,000? Umm, no.....


----------



## HuskStihl

Rounder said:


> Built as a timber faller should be....I'm a 5'11" 155 pound misfit with a bad back.





RandyMac said:


> I was 6'1" 165, buckers are supposed to be squatty.





twochains said:


> I don't know why you consider yourself a misfit at 5'11 155. I'm basically the same size and have never wanted to be any bigger. People built like us can go at a run all day.



Pffft, girlie men. 172 pounds of fat, sloth, and fear!


Holy crap TB, that is high. Make sure that tree is spec'd for your weight:msp_biggrin:


----------



## 056 kid

HuskStihl said:


> I was trying to act all cool and pretend I understand what the heck y'all were talking about, but I don't. Why shouldn't you swing a tree right while making the backcut from the left side?
> Thx,
> Jon



It all depends. I have what you could call a bad habit of sawing under the lean. On slopes it puts my saw in front of me and not at my feet, I like sawing out infront of me a lot more than on the deck. 
The way il do it is put in a face, making sure my far side,(pull side) is opened up proper, saw out the Kerf, then go around back. The first cut on the back is on the pull side, establishing my holding corner, that s, ets the stem in motion, then I just follow it through minding my gunning sight so as not to cut off my holding wood. Saw it up enough so as not to pull wood and gtfo of there!


----------



## bitzer

Hey Bob - I wonder how you guys save out a 200' + tall conifer on short ground! If the wife ever gives me the boot maybe you can put me in a strip for a day. I think I'd get impatient waiting for them to tip though. Unless I'm in a straight stick ash or basswood patch, things move really fast. 


Ted- I can see what you mean about cutting under your Dutchman. You do what you have to do. I usually have the luxury of mostly flat ground and even stumps. 


Glen! Great ####in pics! I'm glad you screwed up posting. I'd probably never see em otherwise. Nice work!


Christ, I'm 5' 11" 220lbs. I've got a chest like a ####### half barrel though. My dad is built more like you guys. Same height as me, but hes got to be around the 165- 170 mark.


----------



## Metals406

Eccentric said:


> Ahhh.........
> 
> 
> Now I understand why you said I'd make a good bucker a while back...:cool2:



I don't think "Bucker" was what he yelled at ya, but yer probably close! :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Metals406

056 kid said:


> Who told you that? 10,000? Umm, no.....



Beats me Ted, all that fancy-pants East side hardwood stuff is beyond my pay grade. :dunno:

All I know is the dude wasn't a straight faller, and logged private stuff that was all high-end. Stems that were worth a whole lot of cash.

I can imagine 2-3 bushel hardwoods of certain species are a cash cow, and others aren't.


----------



## bitzer

Nate- several hundred dollars a tree maybe, but not much more than that. Most timber around me averages 200bf per tree. Even at a buck a foot delivered and say a 600 bf cherry... Christ even a 2000bf red oak. The first log or two might, maybe make a number 1 and then less grade after that. Sheer size will loose some value. There is that sweet spot. Red oak number 1 delivered is like $700/m at my mill. The thing is I think there is a lot of smoke blown around about these hugely over priced trees. I know that some guys will top a walnut before dumping them. I just don't see if that is cost effective. Then again that's not the business I'm in. There is a select group of loggers out there dealing in numbers that I think are nuts.


----------



## jrcat

Here in western NY red oak is $1 per bf. Hard maple is $750/ thousand cherry is $1200/thousand. Veneer is doing ok. I guess some of the really nice cherry could fetch $7/foot. I am having a veneer sale on wednesday.


----------



## tramp bushler

PHP:







twochains said:


> I don't know why you consider yourself a misfit at 5'11 155. I'm basically the same size and have never wanted to be any bigger. People built like us can go at a run all day.



If I got down to 155 I would prolly need to be hospitalized. . Back in 94 I got down to the mid 170 s. I was a pretty serious going concern. I could still 1 hand a 394,36" .. but right now I would sure like to loose 65 or 70 lbs. . Keep the skookums but loose the fat. At 180 lbs I used to hand over hand up a 33, 1" chocker with wet muddy White Ox red band on. Now doing 1 chin up is more than I want to do. Nope, ya don't want t gain any weight.


----------



## roberte

tramp bushler said:


> PHP:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I got down to 155 I would prolly need to be hospitalized. . Back in 94 I got down to the mid 170 s. I was a pretty serious going concern. I could still 1 hand a 394,36" .. but right now I would sure like to loose 65 or 70 lbs. . Keep the skookums but loose the fat. At 180 lbs I used to hand over hand up a 33, 1" chocker with wet muddy White Ox red band on. Now doing 1 chin up is more than I want to do. Nope, ya don't want t gain any weight.



It was the 80s last time I saw 155. 5'9" , 226. I went to 270 before I stopped eating with a pitch fork. No you don't want to getting older and stay that big.


----------



## HuskStihl

056 kid said:


> It all depends. I have what you could call a bad habit of sawing under the lean. On slopes it puts my saw in front of me and not at my feet, I like sawing out infront of me a lot more than on the deck.
> The way il do it is put in a face, making sure my far side,(pull side) is opened up proper, saw out the Kerf, then go around back. The first cut on the back is on the pull side, establishing my holding corner, that s, ets the stem in motion, then I just follow it through minding my gunning sight so as not to cut off my holding wood. Saw it up enough so as not to pull wood and gtfo of there!


Between you, Bitz, and the TB, I actually understand what y'all are talking about. Assuming a standard face falls at "zero," about how many degrees off zero can you move a tree away from its lean with a kerf Dutchman? Say minimal lean with no top issues.
If this makes no sense, I can try again. Thanks boys


----------



## 1270d

bitzer said:


> Nate- several hundred dollars a tree maybe, but not much more than that. Most timber around me averages 200bf per tree. Even at a buck a foot delivered and say a 600 bf cherry... Christ even a 2000bf red oak. The first log or two might, maybe make a number 1 and then less grade after that. Sheer size will loose some value. There is that sweet spot. Red oak number 1 delivered is like $700/m at my mill. The thing is I think there is a lot of smoke blown around about these hugely over priced trees. I know that some guys will top a walnut before dumping them. I just don't see if that is cost effective. Then again that's not the business I'm in. There is a select group of loggers out there dealing in numbers that I think are nuts.



My father used to cut only birds eye in the winters. Some of the highest grade was close to fifty bucks a foot. Rare very rare. The highest value log sold in my home area is supposed to have been 13000dollars. So allowing for rumor growth, maybe it was 7500. Still an awful valuable log. I have never heard of anyone topping one of these trees or anything fancy like that. Knock em down, skid em out, and talk to the buyers before bucking.


----------



## Metals406

bitzer said:


> Nate- several hundred dollars a tree maybe, but not much more than that. Most timber around me averages 200bf per tree. Even at a buck a foot delivered and say a 600 bf cherry... Christ even a 2000bf red oak. The first log or two might, maybe make a number 1 and then less grade after that. Sheer size will loose some value. There is that sweet spot. Red oak number 1 delivered is like $700/m at my mill. The thing is I think there is a lot of smoke blown around about these hugely over priced trees. I know that some guys will top a walnut before dumping them. I just don't see if that is cost effective. Then again that's not the business I'm in. There is a select group of loggers out there dealing in numbers that I think are nuts.



It's my understanding these were possibly OG, on private land that were fancy hardwoods. Not regular stuff ya know?

And I think the 10k number was not in reference to one man getting paid that. . . We're talking from the woods to the end products.

This guy was the broker, harvester, and overseer for the milling. So, lets just say these were 5k stems -- still don't want to bust up any of those either.

But, I do know first hand, of a kid on here that posted a picture a couple years ago of a Cherry he blew up when it fell on the crotch and split from stem to stern -- and he made the comment that it was a very costly mistake.


----------



## jrcat

The tree service guy I worked for here in wny would go out and top red oaks for some loggers. Supposedly to keep the top from splitting the log when it contacted the ground. I have never seen it done for loggers personally..... just in tree service work.


----------



## jrcat

Metals406 said:


> It's my understanding these were possibly OG, on private land that were fancy hardwoods. Not regular stuff ya know?
> 
> And I think the 10k number was not in reference to one man getting paid that. . . We're talking from the woods to the end products.
> 
> This guy was the broker, harvester, and overseer for the milling. So, lets just say these were 5k stems -- still don't want to bust up any of those either.
> 
> But, I do know first hand, of a kid on here that posted a picture a couple years ago of a Cherry he blew up when it fell on the crotch and split from stem to stern -- and he made the comment that it was a very costly mistake.



I had that happen with a red oak. When that top collapsed it split from the top down. I realize that I could have averted that by falling it in a better direction but the top went in 3 directions and I just did not have enough experience to know how to do it properly.


----------



## twochains

jrcat said:


> I had that happen with a red oak. When that top collapsed it split from the top down. I realize that I could have averted that by falling it in a better direction but the top went in 3 directions and I just did not have enough experience to know how to do it properly.



If I plan ahead of time and I see that one has a large top that could bust, I will leave a tree near by to roll off of. For me this helps slow the drop and when on fairly steep ground heavy tops have a tendency to have their own agenda. Rarely will you bust a top if it has rolled down another tree. JMO


----------



## Keen

Metals406 said:


> It's my understanding these were possibly OG, on private land that were fancy hardwoods. Not regular stuff ya know?
> 
> And I think the 10k number was not in reference to one man getting paid that. . . We're talking from the woods to the end products.
> 
> This guy was the broker, harvester, and overseer for the milling. So, lets just say these were 5k stems -- still don't want to bust up any of those either.
> 
> But, I do know first hand, of a kid on here that posted a picture a couple years ago of a Cherry he blew up when it fell on the crotch and split from stem to stern -- and he made the comment that it was a very costly mistake.




Heres a pic of a white ash I cut it had 1500 ft before it crotched out at 30ft and I got a dollar a foot on the landing for it. Ash does not have much value right now with the borer getting it all, but the value came from its size. Its the biggest ash I've cut, let alone seen. It will be milled into slabs for table tops. So by the time its milled and the slabs are sold I figure it will be close to the 8k mark. The guy gets crazy money for his slabs. Its all about hitting the right nitch.


----------



## jrcat

twochains said:


> If I plan ahead of time and I see that one has a large top that could bust, I will leave a tree near by to roll off of. For me this helps slow the drop and when on fairly steep ground heavy tops have a tendency to have their own agenda. Rarely will you bust a top if it has rolled down another tree. JMO



I had never given that any thought. I will remember that for the next one. Thanks


----------



## jrcat

Keen said:


> Heres a pic of a white ash I cut it had 1500 ft before it crotched out at 30ft and I got a dollar a foot on the landing for it. Ash does not have much value right now with the borer getting it all, but the value came from its size. Its the biggest ash I've cut, let alone seen. It will be milled into slabs for table tops. So by the time its milled and the slabs are sold I figure it will be close to the 8k mark. The guy gets crazy money for his slabs. Its all about hitting the right nitch.



Im only getting 650/thousand on the ash but even if it has big hearts. I have about a half a load of ash scattered threw on my job right now. I dont think I am even going to cut it. I hear that veneer ash is only bringing $1.20 a foot right now and has to be snow white with absolutely no defects.

So with that being said you got almost veneer price for that which is awesome. With that big heart in it ..it would have brought little at the mill and no bat mill would have taken it either at least in my area. About the only other place around here that would have taken it is True Temper in Union City pa .... shovel handles. Im glad to see it get used for something other than handles and blocking.


----------



## Keen

jrcat said:


> Im only getting 650/thousand on the ash but even if it has big hearts. I have about a half a load of ash scattered threw on my job right now. I dont think I am even going to cut it. I hear that veneer ash is only bringing $1.20 a foot right now and has to be snow white with absolutely no defects.
> 
> So with that being said you got almost veneer price for that which is awesome. With that big heart in it ..it would have brought little at the mill and no bat mill would have taken it either at least in my area. About the only other place around here that would have taken it is True Temper in Union City pa .... shovel handles. Im glad to see it get used for something other than handles and blocking.




That's really good pricing compared to here on the ash. The bore hit so hard the market it flooded here, everybody is cutting it. Is the bore affecting you guys? We are lucky to get 300 a thous on grade. Veneer is 450 a thous on the landing with a big heart. Quarter heart can bring $1 a foot. In the last year I have sent 100s of cords of grade ash to the pallet mill:mad2:


----------



## tramp bushler

twochains said:


> If I plan ahead of time and I see that one has a large top that could bust, I will leave a tree near by to roll off of. For me this helps slow the drop and when on fairly steep ground heavy tops have a tendency to have their own agenda. Rarely will you bust a top if it has rolled down another tree. JMO




In Southeast. We use hemlocks for that if we have a nice big spruce we.don't want to bust. We call them, disposable hemlocks.


----------



## jrcat

The ash borer has hit here but not to that extent yet.


----------



## bitzer

1270d said:


> My father used to cut only birds eye in the winters. Some of the highest grade was close to fifty bucks a foot. Rare very rare. The highest value log sold in my home area is supposed to have been 13000dollars. So allowing for rumor growth, maybe it was 7500. Still an awful valuable log. I have never heard of anyone topping one of these trees or anything fancy like that. Knock em down, skid em out, and talk to the buyers before bucking.



Yep I forgot about birds eye and curly and all that other specialty stuff. You really have to have the right buyer for that and that market has got to be so small, but I'm sure its out there. To me its just nuts, but more power to em who get those high dollars.


----------



## bitzer

twochains said:


> If I plan ahead of time and I see that one has a large top that could bust, I will leave a tree near by to roll off of. For me this helps slow the drop and when on fairly steep ground heavy tops have a tendency to have their own agenda. Rarely will you bust a top if it has rolled down another tree. JMO



The only problem with that can be you could hang it up making more of a pain for you or it rolls off bad and crotches out anyway. If you've got one set up to dump it into that usually helps. Sometimes there is not much you can do with the bigguns. Just dump em and hope for the best!


----------



## Metals406

Keen said:


> Heres a pic of a white ash I cut it had 1500 ft before it crotched out at 30ft and I got a dollar a foot on the landing for it. Ash does not have much value right now with the borer getting it all, but the value came from its size. Its the biggest ash I've cut, let alone seen. It will be milled into slabs for table tops. So by the time its milled and the slabs are sold I figure it will be close to the 8k mark. The guy gets crazy money for his slabs. Its all about hitting the right nitch.



Yes! This is what I was saying. . . Total value of end product. If you're the broker -- you don't just think about a stem at the landing, you're thinking about it all the way through.

If the dude was in some fancy 2 bushel Walnut, I can imagine some end product prices around 20k.

But again, this is in HW country, and in a market I'm unfamiliar with. I was just going off of what my brother was telling me when he was back east visiting his wife's family. They went out to one of his jobs, and they walked around as he explained how he harvested, etc.


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## twochains

I was cutting this set and came across this head leaner and decided I would take a break and throw on my camera. Te 2nd tree in the vid had a bad lean probably 20ft off center of the stump and hanging over the hollar. I used a faceless bore cut to eliminate chairing the tree. This technique worked very well and came off the stump just as planned w/o making match sticks. This technique is probably dangerous and not used all that often and probably shouldn't be used...however it works very well and fairly common procedure in my area.

Funny how the camera angle flattens out the lay of the land. This was shot on a steep grade, walking the logs was slow due to the downhill angle. Like I said, I was just shooting this because of the head leaner and taking a break kinda. Thanks for watching.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYencgARhmg&list=UU_NjqCPS3PCA_PGz4NCZuLA&index=1


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## treeslayer2003

hey man great job, that looks exactly like what i'm doin,guess i'm not the only one 
white oak right? never thought of measureing with saw like that guess u r grading them?
they not huge but good length. great pics, I gotta get up on this tech thing so I can show y'all what i'm doin :msp_biggrin:


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## northmanlogging

I totally didn't need to see the hairy man teat at the end...:msp_scared: otherwise nice work.


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## OlympicYJ

Twochains, I see you're kind of just topping those sticks. Are you guys bucking at the landing? I also notice even though you're buckin the tops you're still measuring. Could you enlighten me? curios As to what's going on lol

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## HuskStihl

twochains said:


> I was cutting this set and came across this head leaner and decided I would take a break and throw on my camera. Te 2nd tree in the vid had a bad lean probably 20ft off center of the stump and hanging over the hollar. I used a faceless bore cut to eliminate chairing the tree. This technique worked very well and came off the stump just as planned w/o making match sticks. This technique is probably dangerous and not used all that often and probably shouldn't be used...however it works very well and fairly common procedure in my area.
> 
> Funny how the camera angle flattens out the lay of the land. This was shot on a steep grade, walking the logs was slow due to the downhill angle. Like I said, I was just shooting this because of the head leaner and taking a break kinda. Thanks for watching.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYencgARhmg&list=UU_NjqCPS3PCA_PGz4NCZuLA&index=1



Great video TC and very good job demonstrating what you do with the hard leaners. Here's what I would have done differently:
1) I would have futzd around a lot more trying to even up my cuts and never succeeded
2) I would have fallen off that log you were walking on, probably onto something uncomfortable
3) I would have pinched my bar bucking the log and had to run to get a wedge or another saw.

Your way worked too, so I can't complain too much

Seriously, very nice stumps, extremely efficient and well thought out. You must not have much poison ivy. I cut completely covered with a work shirt and gloves, or I'm covered in itchy bumps (doesn't sound manly to be concerned with itchy bumps, but they make it tough to sleep, which I enjoy).
Nice video


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## tramp bushler

T C. Your cutting looks great. Nice steady pace! . But watching you makes the scars on my left hand ache. Wrap your thumb around that handle. Please. . Oh, and look up more. 
I could tell it was pretty steep. But that's actually pretty standard for on the coast up here. Till it gets a lot steeper. 
I've had big spruce run for close to a thousand feet.


----------



## HuskStihl

tramp bushler said:


> T C. Your cutting looks great. Nice steady pace! . But watching you makes the scars on my left hand ache. Wrap your thumb around that handle. Please. . Oh, and look up more.
> I could tell it was pretty steep. But that's actually pretty standard for on the coast up here. Till it gets a lot steeper.
> I've had big spruce run for close to a thousand feet.



I had always wondered why it is important to wrap the thumb. I figured it was, 'cause you tell everybody to do it, and I try to make it a habit now when I am cutting. Scars are some of the best teachers, but I hate bleeding


----------



## twochains

treeslayer2003 said:


> hey man great job, that looks exactly like what i'm doin,guess i'm not the only one
> white oak right? never thought of measureing with saw like that guess u r grading them?
> they not huge but good length. great pics, I gotta get up on this tech thing so I can show y'all what i'm doin :msp_biggrin:



Thanks! Yep, those trees were just the end of the set and I had a few more above them to cut so I was just getting them out of the way. I keep breaking my spencer tape and we have to order new tapes so I was marking my logs with the saw. We sell the small ties down to 10 1/2in to these Minonites and I am pretty sure they mill them to "switch" ties (6x8 or 7x8).



northmanlogging said:


> I totally didn't need to see the hairy man teat at the end...:msp_scared: otherwise nice work.



HA HA! Yeh sorry 'bout that! :msp_w00t:



OlympicYJ said:


> Twochains, I see you're kind of just topping those sticks. Are you guys bucking at the landing? I also notice even though you're buckin the tops you're still measuring. Could you enlighten me? curios As to what's going on lol
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2



The tops go as "scrag" or pallet lumber, I leave it on and it gets bucked at the landing. Keeps the skidder going more efficiently. We don't buck the logs, we only haul on pole trailers.



HuskStihl said:


> Great video TC and very good job demonstrating what you do with the hard leaners. Here's what I would have done differently:
> 1) I would have futzd around a lot more trying to even up my cuts and never succeeded
> 2) I would have fallen off that log you were walking on, probably onto something uncomfortable
> 3) I would have pinched my bar bucking the log and had to run to get a wedge or another saw.
> 
> Your way worked too, so I can't complain too much
> 
> Seriously, very nice stumps, extremely efficient and well thought out. You must not have much poison ivy. I cut completely covered with a work shirt and gloves, or I'm covered in itchy bumps (doesn't sound manly to be concerned with itchy bumps, but they make it tough to sleep, which I enjoy).
> Nice video



Thanks man! I haven't got poison ivy since I was about 5 yrs old, yes there is quite a bit of it around to. I even haul hay w/o a shirt. 



tramp bushler said:


> T C. Your cutting looks great. Nice steady pace! . But watching you makes the scars on my left hand ache. Wrap your thumb around that handle. Please. . Oh, and look up more.
> I could tell it was pretty steep. But that's actually pretty standard for on the coast up here. Till it gets a lot steeper.
> I've had big spruce run for close to a thousand feet.



Thanks! Yep, I saw my thumb in the vid and was like I know who's gonna say something about that  You would think I would learn after "Chauffeur's break" on that same wrist. If you don't know what that is, it is a fracture caused by a thumb injury where you split your radius in half and have to get screws!...I have two. I busted it while cross country racing 4 wheelers. I never came out of the seat, gathered myself and reached up to pull the clutch and my bone popped out the skin! I duct taped it and finished 4th...I was winning the A Open class :frown:. Man you should see the pine set I am dropping 2moro! Biggest timber I have ever cut...gotta bring out the 30" for these babies! We estimate 100' +!!! I hope I can drop them w/o much breakage...they are in even steeper ground. Guess I will be making a new vid :msp_w00t: (if I don't get rained out)


----------



## 056 kid

HuskStihl said:


> Great video TC and very good job demonstrating what you do with the hard leaners. Here's what I would have done differently:
> 1) I would have futzd around a lot more trying to even up my cuts and never succeeded
> 2) I would have fallen off that log you were walking on, probably onto something uncomfortable
> 3) I would have pinched my bar bucking the log and had to run to get a wedge or another saw.
> 
> Your way worked too, so I can't complain too much
> 
> Seriously, very nice stumps, extremely efficient and well thought out. You must not have much poison ivy. I cut completely covered with a work shirt and gloves, or I'm covered in itchy bumps (doesn't sound manly to be concerned with itchy bumps, but they make it tough to sleep, which I enjoy).
> Nice video



Fels Naptha bar soap in the laundry detergent isle. It works good for me. So I think, I might be developing an immunity to them shiny leafs!


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## Metals406

I bet all the locals get a good head scratch looking at a Humboldt stump. :msp_wink:

Sub'd to yer channel too.


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## 056 kid

twochains said:


> I was cutting this set and came across this head leaner and decided I would take a break and throw on my camera. Te 2nd tree in the vid had a bad lean probably 20ft off center of the stump and hanging over the hollar. I used a faceless bore cut to eliminate chairing the tree. This technique worked very well and came off the stump just as planned w/o making match sticks. This technique is probably dangerous and not used all that often and probably shouldn't be used...however it works very well and fairly common procedure in my area.
> 
> Funny how the camera angle flattens out the lay of the land. This was shot on a steep grade, walking the logs was slow due to the downhill angle. Like I said, I was just shooting this because of the head leaner and taking a break kinda. Thanks for watching.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYencgARhmg&list=UU_NjqCPS3PCA_PGz4NCZuLA&index=1


Port that saw and run some good square chain and all you will have to do is back cut in that size timber.


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## treeslayer2003

yea we sell to a menenite too some and couple small amish mills. them butt logs not good enough to v'neer? 
they would see humboltds on my job to, been doing that for years but we just say takin notch outa de stump :wink2:


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## tramp bushler

If you can, let those pines run themselves out of steam quartering them down hill. . If you have a big enough hillside then pour them straight down the mountain. The come to a lot genteler stop. If u get a chance try a wrap handle bar. The Weber is the best I've used on the 460 Stihl. And I think I've used them all. It gives the thumb a place to hide when the clutch cover is up. 
I just about couldn't run a half wrap saw falling timber. Yuk.


----------



## Plankton

Couple of random pictures from a recent job.

Pretty steep ground for the northeast here, most stumps my sight cut is shoulder level like this one:





saving this pine out was a gamble but it worked, slowed the top down with a couple ash down at the bottom and gave it a side snipe to roll the butt in the right direction. The other lays were worse the this on and the drop off was so steep I could walk under the log after it fell, scaling was a challenge. Sure glad it worked out!

on the stump before snipe:






cut:






Edit: Pine stump is high because of defect (old basal scar)


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## Metals406

Plankton said:


> Couple of random pictures from a recent job.



Love me some red and black saws! 

Thanks for sharing! :msp_thumbup:


----------



## tramp bushler

Plankton said:


> Couple of random pictures from a recent job.
> 
> Pretty steep ground for the northeast here, most stumps my sight cut is shoulder level like this one:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> saving this pine out was a gamble but it worked, slowed the top down with a couple ash down at the bottom and gave it a side snipe to roll the butt in the right direction. The other lays were worse the this on and the drop off was so steep I could walk under the log after it fell, scaling was a challenge. Sure glad it worked out!
> 
> on the stump before snipe:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cut:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: Pine stump is high because of defect (old basal scar)



Don't u wear corks. ?? What u have there is what we consider nice ground on the coast. Glad it saved out for u.
Its best if you can quarter them down the hillfor buckin purposes. Having some disposable trees to stow it down works. Its a lot better than belly ripping it.


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## tramp bushler

To Slow it down


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## twochains

Metals406 said:


> I bet all the locals get a good head scratch looking at a Humboldt stump. :msp_wink:
> 
> Sub'd to yer channel too.



I sub'd your channel..hell I've actually watched some of your vids and didn't even know it was you. The "locals" get a good head scratch when you tell them the name of the notch they just put in. :msp_wink:


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## 056 kid

Enjoyable ground.


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## rwoods

056 kid said:


> Enjoyable ground.









:msp_thumbup: Did that one self-limb and load itself on the truck waiting at the bottom? It would have to for me or be my tree for the day. You fellas have a lot more stamina than me. :msp_smile: Ron


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## tramp bushler

If they have a ways to go before they come to a stop I'll pour a bunch down the hill then fuel everything up and go do a bucking run. 
56; what r they yarding with?


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## 056 kid

Falling down hill to a road. Some stop, some run. The cat Skinner is running some small john Deere dozer on that job, something comparable to a d4 I guess, they also have a larger Deere. The blade's range of motion on the larger one is impressive.


----------



## twochains

Cutting my way to some pine I crossed paths with this guy...good thing I was using my 30" bar 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpXj4n4w9Mc


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## HuskStihl

twochains said:


> Cutting my way to some pine I crossed paths with this guy...good thing I was using my 30" bar
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpXj4n4w9Mc



Trampy's gonna be happy! Nice big not-pine tree. Btw, your racing vids are great! Makes me want to get a Vespa and hit the open road!:biggrin:


----------



## treeslayer2003

twochains said:


> Cutting my way to some pine I crossed paths with this guy...good thing I was using my 30" bar
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpXj4n4w9Mc



wow its amazing how similar your technique is to my own, I use the top of bar as well and taken a little flack for it but it works for me and apparently you too.that oak has good color and little sap, I bet that little bit rot clears up in about 18". that a 460? she don't do bad at all. great vid 
:smile-big:


----------



## tramp bushler

See, doesn't that just hang perfect!! Have you done your riders yet on that chain. ?

So, looks like you wernt hitch hiking too much. :msp_thumbup:


----------



## twochains

tramp bushler said:


> See, doesn't that just hang perfect!! Have you done your riders yet on that chain. ?
> 
> So, looks like you wernt hitch hiking too much. :msp_thumbup:



I don't guess I know what hitch hiking is? Saw is nicely balanced with that bar. The chain is that square files that I got pissy with and shoved round through it...I was much happier with how it cut than right out the box, Oregon must run a little higher drags er something. Yeh, I knocked the drags 4 licks...chain was gettin' a little dull when I shot that vid, I had been rained on all day and was being pulled out of there due to incoming storms...so I didn't sharpen. I hope that was a rain drop that got in microphone at the end of the vid.

I have that set of pine coming up, I dropped a couple of the big stragglers that were mixed in with the oak...fricken raining this morning :msp_angry: I'm gonna wait a bit and see what the day looks like and maybe I will get to cut today. I had to hold my self back from running over there and gutting that pine set out first yesterday...these jokers are tall and their tops are looming out the canopy by about 20ft. I think there is about 20 of them all running in a line across hill. The ones I did cut have that nice slick, mature bark, they are here for a reason...I will have to drag mainline about 200ft down to them! 

I can't for the world figure out what ya mean by hitch hiking. :confused2:


----------



## HuskStihl

twochains said:


> I don't guess I know what hitch hiking is?
> 
> I can't for the world figure out what ya mean by hitch hiking. :confused2:




Clues:
1) which "finger" do you put in the air when hitching?
2) what does Trampy say about most cutting videos?
:msp_biggrin::msp_biggrin:


----------



## tramp bushler

No :msp_biggrin: I really like watching everyone's vids. . 

I guess I'm old enough to have done plenty of hitch hiking. , Thumbin a ride. Ya, ya know, when ya stand on the side of the road and stick yer thumb 
out. . . As opposed to the modern hibred ascender/ descender piece of arborist rope climbing gear.


----------



## tramp bushler

If anyone thinks I'm overly critical of what different fallers do. I have a good reason. . Lots of head stones. Lots of guys that can't get out of their wheel chairs. . Most all the older guys on here and some of the not so old ones know lots of our peers that aren't breathing anymore. And some that if they are they can't run a saw any more. 

I try to be just a good guy on this crew. But sometimes I'm just a prik bull buck. Sorry.


----------



## HuskStihl

tramp bushler said:


> If anyone thinks I'm overly critical of what different fallers do. I have a good reason. . Lots of head stones. Lots of guys that can't get out of their wheel chairs. . Most all the older guys on here and some of the not so old ones know lots of our peers that aren't breathing anymore. And some that if they are they can't run a saw any more.
> 
> I try to be just a good guy on this crew. But sometimes I'm just a prik bull buck. Sorry.



Hey TB, I wasn't for a second saying your advice is not wanted. I (and I'm sure everybody else feels the same) really appreciate how much of your time you "donate" to guys like me and TC. Believe me, I "listen" to every word you "say" regarding falling (not so much with ceiling repair:biggrin, and only referenced you in the above post 'cause I felt I needed a second "clue." Please don't take it as me being put off by getting instruction from you. I'm usually embarassed to ask all the stupid questions I have for fear Bob creates a "Falling 101" forum just for me, but I don't want to get killed or maimed so I try to do all the things you guys say. I see it as you looking out for our safety, not being a prik.
Respectfully,
Jon


----------



## Gologit

HuskStihl said:


> Hey TB, I wasn't for a second saying your advice is not wanted. I (and I'm sure everybody else feels the same) really appreciate how much of your time you "donate" to guys like me and TC. Believe me, I "listen" to every word you "say" regarding falling (not so much with ceiling repair:biggrin, and only referenced you in the above post 'cause I felt I needed a second "clue." Please don't take it as me being put off by getting instruction from you. I'm usually embarassed to ask all the stupid questions I have for fear Bob creates a "Falling 101" forum just for me, but I don't want to get killed or maimed so I try to do all the things you guys say. I see it as you looking out for our safety, not being a prik.
> Respectfully,
> Jon



Don't worry about it Jon. There _aren't_ any stupid questions and don't _ever_ be embarrassed about not knowing something.

Guys like TB and I have been in the woods a long time but we have questions sometimes too. You never know everything and, if you're smart, you never quit learning. A guy in the woods is in school every day and if he doesn't learn something or add to his knowledge, even a little, he's not paying attention. 

I'm not trying to speak for TB here but I'll bet you lunch he agrees with me.

A lot of what we've learned has been from mistakes, ours and other guys'. Some of the other guys' mistakes had tragic consequences. I've lost track of how many guys I've seen get hurt in the woods but I remember very clearly how many guys I've seen get killed. Two of them were my falling partners, both were good experienced men. One of them made a mistake, hurrying and trying to finish up, and it caught him, the other one had something happen that couldn't have been prevented...a top blew out of a snag. You can't avoid some of the dangers but a lot of staying safe is recognizing the dangers you _can_ avoid.

Proper cutting technique is the easiest thing to learn and the easiest thing to do.....when everything is going right. It's when they don't go right that skill and judgement come into play. A lot of timber falling, or bucking for that matter, is being constantly aware and constantly correcting small mistakes. Nobody does it perfect every time, not me, not anybody, but when you see that things are starting to go bad and you fix them...safely, correctly, and efficiently...you make life a lot easier for yourself. That comes with time and experience. 

A good faller or bucker isn't necessarily afraid of what he's doing but he's _wary_ all the time. Wary as in paying attention to whats around him, where his saw is, and what the tree is doing. If you're _wary_ all the time you cut down on the risk level.

A close call usually means that you missed something that you should have seen or done something that you shouldn't have done. Not always, some times things just happen, but usually they have a cause. Close calls are a learning opportunity. Too many close calls mean that you're not learning. If you have enough of them and don't learn you might be one of those guys that get talked about at the saw shop or in the tavern...as in "yeah, he was pretty good but he sure got careless sometimes. Rough deal. Wonder if his widow is going to sell his saws?"


----------



## twochains

tramp bushler said:


> If anyone thinks I'm overly critical of what different fallers do. I have a good reason. . Lots of head stones. Lots of guys that can't get out of their wheel chairs. . Most all the older guys on here and some of the not so old ones know lots of our peers that aren't breathing anymore. And some that if they are they can't run a saw any more.
> 
> I try to be just a good guy on this crew. But sometimes I'm just a prik bull buck. Sorry.



No reason to be sorry...I genuinely appreciate every comment I have ever received on this site! Honestly, where else is anybody supposed to learn anything? I learn everyday and really appreciate the time you guys give to people! 

Yeh, I fgured out the hitch hiker deal from HuskStihl. LOL! we call ticks hitch hikers around here...and it's tick season.


----------



## 056 kid

Side hill fun time


----------



## 056 kid

twochains said:


> I don't guess I know what hitch hiking is? Saw is nicely balanced with that bar. The chain is that square files that I got pissy with and shoved round through it...I was much happier with how it cut than right out the box, Oregon must run a little higher drags er something. Yeh, I knocked the drags 4 licks...chain was gettin' a little dull when I shot that vid, I had been rained on all day and was being pulled out of there due to incoming storms...so I didn't sharpen. I hope that was a rain drop that got in microphone at the end of the vid.
> 
> I have that set of pine coming up, I dropped a couple of the big stragglers that were mixed in with the oak...fricken raining this morning :msp_angry: I'm gonna wait a bit and see what the day looks like and maybe I will get to cut today. I had to hold my self back from running over there and gutting that pine set out first yesterday...these jokers are tall and their tops are looming out the canopy by about 20ft. I think there is about 20 of them all running in a line across hill. The ones I did cut have that nice slick, mature bark, they are here for a reason...I will have to drag mainline about 200ft down to them!
> 
> I can't for the world figure out what ya mean by hitch hiking. :confused2:



Get yourself a set of corks, suspenders to keep waterlogged trousers up, wool & tin pants for the cold days, and cut your acc off in the rain, tell the skidded man you will have them layed out for him to get easy. I ####in love cutting in rain with a little bit of fog, turning them into lay on a good slope, tearing Hell off it's hinges as an old timer I knew would say.


----------



## twochains

056 kid said:


> Get yourself a set of corks, suspenders to keep waterlogged trousers up, wool & tin pants for the cold days, and cut your acc off in the rain, tell the skidded man you will have them layed out for him to get easy. I ####in love cutting in rain with a little bit of fog, turning them into lay on a good slope, tearing Hell off it's hinges as an old timer I knew would say.



Yeh, I have always worn corks. I will lay them out good...being as I am the one who will also have to run the choke sets.  As far as the rain, I don't mind cutting in the rain...however no one else on the crew showed up to work today...normally that wouldn't bother me but I didn't want to cut that big set of timber off the side of that hill with no one around...all kinds of stupid stuff can happen when you combine rain, big timber, and steep hill sides. Not to mention a day off ain't bad...I can make it up this weekend, I'm allowed to cut Sundays on this little job.


----------



## treeslayer2003

gologit, very well said, I couldn't agree more. I been cutting trees over half my life and I learn sumthin every day in the woods. I really enjoy reading about differient tecnuiqes [cant spell] in other parts of the country. we may not always agree on how to do sumthing but we can still learn 
from each other.tc I had my first "hitchhiker" of the year two days ago, yea its that time of year.


----------



## 056 kid

You wear corks? Damn there goes your excuses for dragging ass while running those sticks up. :eek2:


----------



## Gologit

056 kid said:


> You wear corks? Damn there goes your excuses for dragging ass while running those sticks up. :eek2:



He could still blame it on the caulks since theres what? maybe four or five days between brand new and worn out when the nails are actually the exact right length and do what they're supposed to.

The rest of the time they're too long or too short....picking up too much garbage or too stubby to grip. Some day when I'm rich I'm gonna order custom made spikes worn down to just the right length...and have some kid change them out for me every four or five days.


----------



## 056 kid

You are only allowed to be careful when the logs your walking on are a good distance off the ground.
But Bob, why don't you just engineer some nails that actually work. I swear a coupla year's ago when I first started wearing corks they where a lot better..


----------



## roberte

Gologit said:


> He could still blame it on the caulks since theres what? maybe four or five days between brand new and worn out when the nails are actually the exact right length and do what they're supposed to.
> 
> The rest of the time they're too long or too short....picking up too much garbage or too stubby to grip. Some day when I'm rich I'm gonna order custom made spikes worn down to just the right length...and have some kid change them out for me every four or five days.



I'm your huckleberry.


----------



## Gologit

056 kid said:


> You are only allowed to be careful when the logs your walking on are a good distance off the ground.
> But Bob, why don't you just engineer some nails that actually work. I swear a coupla year's ago when I first started wearing corks they where a lot better..



Dunno. I wear Wescos and I think they've gone to a different supplier for their spikes or their current supplier is giving them the shaft.

The boots are still good but the spikes don't last like they used to. I know, I know, sounds like another old guy rant... "nuthin works or lasts like it used to"... but I really think in this case it's true.


----------



## 056 kid

Seems like the champ nails used to be pretty good, not now. 
It's fun to get into the business as everything goes to ####.


----------



## RandyMac

I skipped the corks in parts of the Sierras, too dammed rocky.


----------



## rwoods

RandyMac said:


> I skipped the corks in parts of the Sierras, too dammed rocky.



Randy, I figured you would know what toe nails are meant for.

[video=youtube;KEXh3dUHdIM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEXh3dUHdIM[/video] 

:msp_smile: Ron


----------



## roberte

RandyMac said:


> I skipped the corks in parts of the Sierras, too dammed rocky.



A lot of plumas and sierra county is that way


----------



## Gologit

RandyMac said:


> I skipped the corks in parts of the Sierras, too dammed rocky.



I've tried that. I've looked at what I had to do the next day and figured that caulks were a waste of time and wore something else. And then cussed all day because I _didn't_ have them for the slick stuff.
And then cussed the _next_ day when I _was_ wearing them and got into a bunch of rocks again. 

Sometimes you just cuss all day long.


----------



## Gologit

roberte said:


> A lot of plumas and sierra county is that way



Yup. And Butte County and Tehama County and Yuba County and Lassen County and Shasta County and....::msp_angry:


----------



## hammerlogging

Gologit said:


> He could still blame it on the caulks since theres what? maybe four or five days between brand new and worn out when the nails are actually the exact right length and do what they're supposed to.
> 
> The rest of the time they're too long or too short....picking up too much garbage or too stubby to grip. Some day when I'm rich I'm gonna order custom made spikes worn down to just the right length...and have some kid change them out for me every four or five days.



just call the caddie over for the 9 am and 1 pm boot switch.

"caddie, boots please"

Trying not to buy boots I ordered $50 worth of new corks in my latest Madsen's order to replace the ball bearings I'm walking on in previously retired boots. By the end of the order I cancelled and bucked up for a new pair of Wescos. they're my feet afterall.


----------



## Rounder

Tricounis help a good bit with the nail wear. I also like to use the cermecs around the outside edge. Put the tough stuff on the outside to take the brunt of your ass weight anyways.


----------



## Hddnis

In the spirit of American innovation I'm going to make a boot for Bob that has retractable caulks. He can flip a lever and out they come, flip it back and he'll be all set for rocky ground.

After a year or two of saving him all that cussing I'll sell him the newly improved design that has a key fob remote control so he won't have to strain anything bending over to flip the lever.:msp_biggrin:

Another little spell and I'll sell him the very latest design that has a computer in it that senses when he starts to slip and shoots the caulks out in time to stop the fall.

After he endorses my product line I'll give him a personalized cane and then a few years after that I'll get him one of those scooters





Mr. HE


----------



## Gologit

Hddnis said:


> In the spirit of American innovation I'm going to make a boot for Bob that has retractable caulks. He can flip a lever and out they come, flip it back and he'll be all set for rocky ground.
> 
> After a year or two of saving him all that cussing I'll sell him the newly improved design that has a key fob remote control so he won't have to strain anything bending over to flip the lever.:msp_biggrin:
> 
> Another little spell and I'll sell him the very latest design that has a computer in it that senses when he starts to slip and shoots the caulks out in time to stop the fall.
> 
> After he endorses my product line I'll give him a personalized cane and then a few years after that I'll get him one of those scooters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. HE




GREAT IDEAS!  A couple of improvements on your idea though, if you don't mind. The boots should be "auto-tie" so I don't have to hike my foot up on the tailgate to lace up and please make sure the cane has a self leveling sensor/extender for working on side hills.

I already have the scooter...it's yellow and says D-6 on the side. Hey, let's see them deny handicapped access to that. I'll just make my own.


----------



## roberte

Gologit said:


> GREAT IDEAS!  A couple of improvements on your idea though, if you don't mind. The boots should be "auto-tie" so I don't have to hike my foot up on the tailgate to lace up and please make sure the cane has a self leveling sensor/extender for working on side hills.
> 
> I already have the scooter...it's yellow and says D-6 on the side. Hey, let's see them deny handicapped access to that. I'll just make my own.



I would like to see a choker attached to smart car and a d6


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## slowp

I would like to see the yellow scooter running about in the aisles of the Walmarche.


----------



## Hddnis

Gologit said:


> GREAT IDEAS!  A couple of improvements on your idea though, if you don't mind. The boots should be "auto-tie" so I don't have to hike my foot up on the tailgate to lace up and please make sure the cane has a self leveling sensor/extender for working on side hills.
> 
> I already have the scooter...it's yellow and says D-6 on the side. Hey, let's see them deny handicapped access to that. I'll just make my own.





"Auto tie"


I like it!


...and the yellow scooter is funny!



Mr. HE


----------



## tramp bushler

Rounder said:


> Tricounis help a good bit with the nail wear. I also like to use the cermecs around the outside edge. Put the tough stuff on the outside to take the brunt of your ass weight anyways.



You ain't got no ass weight. uttahere2:
I really like triconies. They really help on wet steep ground. And they keep the nails .


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> I would like to see the yellow scooter running about in the aisles of the Walmarche.



I've changed my mind on using the 6 for a scooter. Too slow, too clumsy. I think one of those skid steers with tracks might be more versatile. I've never run one and they look like they'd be a blast. And they'd probably be more maneuverable in Mal Mart. The scooter drivers who clog up the aisles could be gently lifted, moved, and deposited someplace out of the way.

"Cleanup on aisle 6, aisle 8, hardware, and the entire produce section". Yeah, skid steer on rubber tracks...that's what I want.


----------



## roberte

Gologit said:


> I've changed my mind on using the 6 for a scooter. Too slow, too clumsy. I think one of those skid steers with tracks might be more versatile. I've never run one and they look like they'd be a blast. And they'd probably be more maneuverable in Mal Mart. The scooter drivers who clog up the aisles could be gently lifted, moved, and deposited someplace out of the way.
> 
> "Cleanup on aisle 6, aisle 8, hardware, and the entire produce section". Yeah, skid steer on rubber tracks...that's what I want.



Your right, rubber tracks would be better in case you have to do a Jim rockford to go back to ailse 1 to pick up some cosmetics .


----------



## slowp

I want one of those big, shiny, orange Daiwoo shovels that are parked near the Walmarche exit. The dangerous scooter people would not be a problem and I could reach the cheaper stuff off the top shelves. Then I'd mosey on over to Home Depot. They have cleaner bathrooms. 
Daiwoo vs Home Depot forklift, hmmmm, who would win? :msp_ohmy:


----------



## Hddnis

For anyone that has not run the rubber tracked skid steers you are missing out on a lot of fun. They can be a little frustrating at first because the controls are sensitive, but once you get the hang of them you can make those machines dance. My favorites are the Cat 257 and 277, they are powerful and smooth and go anywhere. To give you an idea of the control they have I once won the operator challange at the Cat dealership for driving a 277 through an obstacle course with a five gallon bucket of water set on a pallet on the forks. I throttled up and and blasted through the course and only lost about a gallon of water. I know most machines out there would have lost all the water, the bucket and several would have lost the pallet too.

So yeah, perfect thing to gently nudge aisle hogs at WalMart and seeing the black track marks you'd leave on the floor would be aweseome. :hmm3grin2orange:





Mr. HE


----------



## Trx250r180

wish my lil skid steer had tracks,this 30 foot cedar log was making it wheelie dragging it out ,i built a set of forks for it for moving logs for the chainsaw mill View attachment 293714
View attachment 293715


----------



## strangersfaces

Brian,

I noticed the boundary ribbons... Is this your own property you're pulling milling wood from? If so, glad you were able to get the borders marked.


----------



## Trx250r180

strangersfaces said:


> Brian,
> 
> I noticed the boundary ribbons... Is this your own property you're pulling milling wood from? If so, glad you were able to get the borders marked.



thats actually a rope hot line for my horses in case they wander out back ,my property goes about 100 feet into the trees behind that line ,but it drops down to a creek ,so i don't cut those ,i have 5 acres ,a lot is timber still standing i can use ,i like making stuff with lumber off my own land ,its self rewarding i guess to see something you milled and built out of a tree ,thats a leftover cedar from when i cleared about 6 loads of logs ,they were decked there ,and a self loader backed in ,theres a road about 8 feet below that line on other side ,im still cleaning up logging debris ,have about 2 loads of misc smaller stuff decked to the right of where that skid steer is now ,but they only offered a few hundred a load for pulp so i kept it for firewood


----------



## Hddnis

trx250r180 said:


> wish my lil skid steer had tracks,this 30 foot cedar log was making it wheelie dragging it out ,i built a set of forks for it for moving logs for the chainsaw mill View attachment 293714
> View attachment 293715





Hey, your little machine sure beats trying to drag it by hand, or any other way of moving it using nothing but armstrong tools for that matter. I can't count how many times I've wished I had some sort of machine, any sort of machine, to make my work just a little easier. Trouble is every time I get one I always want a bigger one. 




Mr. HE


----------



## bitzer

Ted - nice pics! Looks like fun. It was raining and in the upper 30s on Friday when I cut. My favorite kind of cutting weather. 


The tool steel spikes suck and definitely run down faster than the champs. The cermacs never seem to wear.


----------



## northmanlogging

Ok so where are you guys/gurl finding all these different types of calks, all I ever seem to find are champs, while they work for my needs its always good to have choices.


----------



## 056 kid

bitzer said:


> Ted - nice pics! Looks like fun. It was raining and in the upper 30s on Friday when I cut. My favorite kind of cutting weather.
> 
> 
> The tool steel spikes suck and definitely run down faster than the champs. The cermacs never seem to wear.



I might try some. That red oak and hickory demand a sharp nail or your going down.


----------



## RVALUE

Burvol said:


> It's a Motorola Tundra, their heavy duty phone designed for military use.



Take care of it. I can't get parts anymore, so, ......


----------



## RandyMac

Don't know if this is going to work.
https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=4982322844544


----------



## Gologit

Good video. That ought to be required viewing for anybody wanting to cut a tree.


----------



## 056 kid

I hear their looking for cutters up there.


----------



## rwoods

Good thing Mr. Hawkins doesn't dilly dally at the stump. By tossing the axe it certainly looked likely he anticipated what was coming. Ron


----------



## Gologit

rwoods said:


> Good thing Mr. Hawkins doesn't dilly dally at the stump. By tossing the axe it certainly looked likely he anticipated what was coming. Ron



I think you're right. I was wondering why he left the tree so early and didn't saw it up a little more. When all that crap started coming down it sure answered _that_ question. He did a fine job.

He knew what was coming. That's what separates the fallers from the wannabes.


----------



## paccity

056 kid said:


> I hear their looking for cutters up there.


yes they are. but you have to commit. i can throw down a p # for the willing.


----------



## OlympicYJ

Guy that runs a lil saw shop I've done business with was a cutter out of Rayonier's Res. operations, can't remember the name of the camp for the life of me. Anyways he said you'd be cuttin on a nice big stick and all of a sudden she'd just uproot and let go. Don't let the good healthy look fool ya. Those roots could be rotten, keep ya on yer toes! Vid reminded me of that with those sticks up above comin down. Saw him drop his saw but didn't see an axe tossed.


----------



## OlympicYJ

paccity said:


> yes they are. but you have to commit. i can throw down a p # for the willing.



That's for sure! I know a guy that just quit up there in December. Said he was getting tired of the camp life. Mark Carter keeps an add up in Harbor Saw all the time for cutters.


----------



## rwoods

No doubt that he knows what he is doing but even so that is some dangerous stuff. I guess that is part of the appeal to pro and the wanttobe alike. The adrendaline boost alone would be enough to kill me from just attempting to cut a tree of that size in a flat open field on a clear windless day. Ron


----------



## rwoods

OlympicYJ said:


> ... . Saw him drop his saw but didn't see an axe tossed.



At the 25 sec mark, just before he reaches for a wedge. Ron


----------



## paccity

just had a set triples with a four speed sent up there.






almost kept them myself but there worth more to them


----------



## Gologit

rwoods said:


> No doubt that he knows what he is doing but even so that is some dangerous stuff. I guess that is part of the appeal to pro and the wanttobe alike. The adrendaline boost alone would be enough to kill me from just attempting to cut a tree of that size in a flat open field on a clear windless day. Ron



Hmmm...not part of the appeal, just part of the job. I don't think I'd want a guy on the saw who was attracted by the danger. Those kind of people worry me.


----------



## forestryworks

Nice job of situational awareness!

And then there's the holes I've heard of men disappearing into when they leave the stump - more so on Dall Island.



Gologit said:


> Hmmm...not part of the appeal, just part of the job. I don't think I'd want a guy on the saw who was attracted by the danger. Those kind of people worry me.



Agreed.

We had a guy fresh out of the Army come be a volunteer rx fire crew member with us last week. Was his first burn. Had to ask him to give me the torch back after 10 minutes. Gave him the flapper instead


----------



## 056 kid

There has to be some correlation between the two. Why even bother with falling timber if your not going to get a little excited about it. Not looking for danger, but recognising it and not feeling like your going to the principals office for the first time.


----------



## Gologit

056 kid said:


> There has to be some correlation between the two. Why even bother with falling timber if your not going to get a little excited about it. Not looking for danger, but recognising it and not feeling like your going to the principals office for the first time.



You make a good point. Sure, there's always a little adrenalin rush when one goes over, especially when it has some size to it and you want to save it out.
I've been doing this for awhile now and I _still_ get a kick out of it. I like the skill and precision of it...the danger just goes along with that. It's there but it doesn't attract me.

My point was that if a guy is _attracted_ to the danger, if he's in love with that aspect of the job, I don't want him around. I've seen guys who thought that taking big risks when there was no need for it spiced up the day. I haven't seen them lately though. 

You know yourself that there's enough excitement that comes along in the normal course of things in this business.


----------



## northmanlogging

So my day pales next to that video... gee thanks randy...

View attachment 293842
View attachment 293843
View attachment 293844


made a siswheel in a little cotton wood that had been topped, not good at this siswheel thing yet and the bastard stopped cold right around 45 degrees, wasn't hung up on anything but the siswheel. The big blue arrow points to my big fat head under an ugly blue hard hat.


----------



## northmanlogging

I had a video but its too big of the top coming out I'm not compooter literate enough to make it smaller... Had some awesome home owner reactions though...


----------



## twochains

RandyMac said:


> Don't know if this is going to work.



Hey, was the tree that came down 2nd, hung up in the tree that was being fell? The vid says land slide, but seems to me he was leaving before the tree went so he would have enough time to outrun the hanger. Is that right? Or am I waaay off?


----------



## mdavlee

Good video Randy. 

twochains empty your pm box.


----------



## twochains

mdavlee said:


> Good video Randy.
> 
> twochains empty your pm box.



gotcha!


----------



## roberte

RandyMac said:


> Don't know if this is going to work.
> https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=4982322844544



It must be a good one, however no way in hel am I going on farcebook.


----------



## RandyMac

roberte said:


> It must be a good one, however no way in hel am I going on farcebook.



it was noisy


----------



## strangersfaces

twochains said:


> Hey, was the tree that came down 2nd, hung up in the tree that was being fell? The vid says land slide, but seems to me he was leaving before the tree went so he would have enough time to outrun the hanger. Is that right? Or am I waaay off?



Yes, the 2nd tree was hung up in the tree he was cutting. I read the comments below the vid, and his wife?/sister?/?same last name woman" explained why he'd fallen the tree off to the side in order to have more time to clear out once the fall began....


----------



## rwoods

I wouldn't dream of saying this guy is a danger seeker or reckless. If anything he seemed to have a real appreciation for the danger. However, there is something, indefinable maybe, that set guys like this apart. Given a reasonable appreciation for the danger shown I would need in addition to the competency some real inner motivation (probably more than just feeding the wife and kids) to fall that tree. Maybe there were circumstances not shown that would have supplied that motivation (like if I don’t do it that young buck over there will attempt it and get himself killed or there is some other imminent danger to others if left uncut). Nevertheless IMO there is usually something inside that motivates one to pursue dangerous occupations. Maybe my inexperience causes me to overstate “it” or keeps me from properly defining “it”. I’m neither a Navy SEAL nor a faller. But I admire and appreciate both. Ron


----------



## Hddnis

Greater experience becomes like an ever expanding tool box. As you get more tools you can do more work, some tools are very specialized and there are few opportunities to use them. In falling it is the same way, when you have a big toolbox of experience you can confidently drop trees that many would and should walk away from.

The flip side of that is just when you think you have it figured out the trees will school you. That brings the danger and is why people with experience still get their heart racing at times. 

As to why to do it, that varies, sometimes it is as simple as being part of the job, but usually there is a little more to it. It may be that his job was to log that area and taking care of the hazard up front was safest since it let him get the other trees without having to worry about that thing going off unexpectedly. Might be they needed to put in a landing or road down below and it need to be safe for others to work. All of that fits in with it being part of the job, but adds further motivation to doing the work. I don't know anyone that just goes out into the woods looking for danger trees to drop just for kicks. Looking for thrills is a cheap way to live anyhow. Looking for greater experience, deeper knowledge, wisdom in using those first two properly, and challanging oneself to do ever better work is a good thing and many fallers have that mindset.





Mr. HE


----------



## twochains

Here is a good pine I dropped yesterday. I am uploading a couple more but they aren't finished yet. The camera ran out of memory just in time. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-e4F2Iadlw4&list=UU_NjqCPS3PCA_PGz4NCZuLA&index=1


----------



## HuskStihl

twochains said:


> Here is a good pine I dropped yesterday. I am uploading a couple more but they aren't finished yet. The camera ran out of memory just in time.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-e4F2Iadlw4&list=UU_NjqCPS3PCA_PGz4NCZuLA&index=1



You keep getting into bigger and bigger timber, I'll have to lend you the 42"!:biggrin:
Looks good


----------



## roberte

twochains said:


> Here is a good pine I dropped yesterday. I am uploading a couple more but they aren't finished yet. The camera ran out of memory just in time.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-e4F2Iadlw4&list=UU_NjqCPS3PCA_PGz4NCZuLA&index=1



Nice tip over , what is your weapon of choice


----------



## Metals406

twochains said:


> Here is a good pine I dropped yesterday. I am uploading a couple more but they aren't finished yet. The camera ran out of memory just in time.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-e4F2Iadlw4&list=UU_NjqCPS3PCA_PGz4NCZuLA&index=1



Dood. . . Yer killin' me with that doggy saw and shtuff. 

Get that thing ported and start you square filing, or Goofy in the least. 

Or abide yer time and save some coin fer a Simington grinder.


----------



## tramp bushler

Looks good. 
Nate ; you mean a Silvey grinder?


----------



## Metals406

tramp bushler said:


> Looks good.
> Nate ; you mean a Silvey grinder?



:msp_biggrin:


I mean one that would do the job of put'n a square profile on his full-chisel cutters. . . Like this one too. :msp_wink:

Silvey SDM-4 Chainsaw Chain Grinder

Hurry up and get it Twochains -- you'll never go back. 

I'm sure one of our fine Warchington brethren would even get it from the seller, to make sure the packing job on'er was right for the trip.


----------



## Trx250r180

does falling a tree on you bar count as falling :hmm3grin2orange:
View attachment 293914


----------



## roberte

trx250r180 said:


> does falling a tree on you bar count as falling :hmm3grin2orange:
> View attachment 293914



Oppps, looks like someone needed a couple of wedges before it got to thst point


----------



## Trx250r180

roberte said:


> Oppps, looks like someone needed a couple of wedges before it got to thst point



it was going the right way ,i think a little gust of wind pushed it back ,i nipped it again with another bar and pushed it with wedges


----------



## rwoods

Agreed, Mr. HE. 

Youthful fantasies notwithstanding, in every occupation there comes a time that separates the men from the boys. And for most there comes a time regardless of competency when you decide whether you are going to stick with it and set some personal boundaries or look for something else. I believe most of the senior posters here have been there. 

On the other hand there are folks in life that are totally incompetent and/or never seem to appreciate danger and/or continually seek a thrill that somehow survive. Every now and then one such will post on AS. I've run across one or two like that in public safety and candidly I would prefer someone else come to my aid. I certainly don't want to cut wood with the like-minded or take instruction from them.

All said I still believe there is an admirable inner motivation that causes one to calculate and take formidable risks.

Ron


----------



## Mastermind

trx250r180 said:


> does falling a tree on you bar count as falling :hmm3grin2orange:
> View attachment 293914



They're called wedges. Get some and use em.


----------



## Samlock

trx250r180 said:


> does falling a tree on you bar count as falling :hmm3grin2orange:



Now all you need is a railroad spike, a piece of string, a tigger and some time to complete it.


----------



## OlympicYJ

Twochains,

Got trick for ya. If ya keep your chain speed up when your coming out of the cut you won't get hung up quite as much with that longer bar. Softwood fiber is severed better with square ground so if you're using round your cut fibers aren't as smooth and grab the chain and stall your saw out. Not to mention all the saw chips in there.

Couldn't tell but if you have the small dawgs on your saw, if not get the bigger doubles... better leverage and slip less in loose bark.

We'll leave the full wrap debate for later 

Happy cuttin!


----------



## 056 kid

Twochains, good work, but open that face up man. There's just no sence in a huge kerf like that unless the thing is leaning 45.. Like the others are saying, get setup with some square chain sharpening equipment. You will love it. Most factory square chain is buggerd up in one way or another.. when its right you can start a kerf and use nothing more than your finger on the throttle while the saw eats away steadily. Night and day.


----------



## Trx250r180

Samlock said:


> Now all you need is a railroad spike, a piece of string, a tigger and some time to complete it.



was gonna post a thread on how to fall this tree but i saw someone already did that one ,it did grab the trees i was trying to bounce it off on the wrong side of them and fell to the right some, couple widow makers fell but well far from me ,must have nipped the back side of my hinge trying to pull the saw out so it turned some ,another bar ,2 wedges it was down View attachment 293931


----------



## bustedup

Can ya not have the full wrap debate as it would be real interesting


----------



## lumberjack48

The edge is off the chain, so its leaving fiber like whiskers in the cut, causing the chain an bar to bind up in the cut.
Grab a file an put the edge back on, i always carried a file with me. It only takes couple minutes to put an edge back on.


----------



## roberte

roberte said:


> Oppps, looks like someone needed a couple of wedges before it got to thst point



Looks like your high stumping :jester::greenchainsaw:


----------



## Trx250r180

roberte said:


> Looks like your high stumping :jester::greenchainsaw:



i will get a pic of a high stump tonight :msp_biggrin: that ones only stomache height


----------



## roberte

bustedup said:


> Can ya not have the full wrap debate as it would be real interesting



I told you, arhnold, you'll be baack


----------



## roberte

trx250r180 said:


> i will get a pic of a high stump tonight :msp_biggrin: that ones only stomache height



One of my first trees in Washington, I cut it beautifully, yeah right, except I was 10/12" up, buddy josh says that's not 8", Jhc


----------



## bustedup

roberte said:


> One of my first trees in Washington, I cut it beautifully, yeah right, except I was 10/12" up, buddy josh says that's not 8", Jhc



Ya should have gone to specs savers ..........or office supplies they sell rulers lol


----------



## Trx250r180

roberte said:


> One of my first trees in Washington, I cut it beautifully, yeah right, except I was 10/12" up, buddy josh says that's not 8", Jhc



i bet you had to use a springboard on that tree


----------



## paccity

Samlock said:


> Now all you need is a railroad spike, a piece of string, a tigger and some time to complete it.



looks like someones been in my back yard. need to go see if there's another b&c up there for me.:rolleyes2:


----------



## twochains

HuskStihl said:


> You keep getting into bigger and bigger timber, I'll have to lend you the 42"!:biggrin:
> Looks good



Ha Ha! The timber is just getting better and better on this place. The job sucks but there is some nice timber.



roberte said:


> Nice tip over , what is your weapon of choice



Thanks! 046



Metals406 said:


> Dood. . . Yer killin' me with that doggy saw and shtuff.
> 
> Get that thing ported and start you square filing, or Goofy in the least.
> 
> Or abide yer time and save some coin fer a Simington grinder.



I know...imagine trying to shoot a vid and yer saw goes...waaawwwww! How much extra gas will a ported saw use? What I mean is, will I notice a big difference in trees per tank so to say? I have a guy that I am going to take it to..."Stumpy's Customs" and get the saw Stump Broke!  HA, just a little plug for a good dude!



056 kid said:


> Twochains, good work, but open that face up man. There's just no sence in a huge kerf like that unless the thing is leaning 45.. Like the others are saying, get setup with some square chain sharpening equipment. You will love it. Most factory square chain is buggerd up in one way or another.. when its right you can start a kerf and use nothing more than your finger on the throttle while the saw eats away steadily. Night and day.



Kid...Thanks man! Dude I don't know exactly what it is but with that long bar, I have been throwing some big kerfs. I pre-viewed 2 vids I shot today and was like Holy ####! I actually don't even know how I got away with it. The odd thing was while I was cutting everything seemed right, but when I watched on the vids...there it was, bigger than ####!


----------



## bustedup

I pre-viewed 2 vids I shot today and was like Holy ####! I actually don't even know how I got away with it. The odd thing was while I was cutting everything seemed right, but when I watched on the vids...there it was, bigger than ####!


IMO you just sorted things ya self cause ya admitted what was wrong ........That the most important thing being able to admit when you did something wrong and then ask for advice.....Just my opinion.




but your doing fine bro you are


----------



## forestryworks

Just some junky elm. Nothing special. No pic of the tree falling though, cause the cameraman took a forward tumbling roll just as the tree headed for the lay


----------



## bustedup

forestryworks said:


> Just some junky elm. Nothing special. No pic of the tree falling though, cause the cameraman took a forward tumbling roll just as the tree headed for the lay



Can I ask did ya take a limb of the backside before ya faced it up. I may not be seeing the pic right but if ya did it shows that ya worked things out really well (ya even got your camera man rolling lol) which I think shows skill and knowledge


----------



## Rounder

Thought you were in ID J.C., I know for a fact they've got better timber than that

Glad you're keeping busy, you still in ID? Sounds like I'll be over that way for the better part of the next year.....Catch up with ya sometime if you're still in that neck of the weeds.

Take care - Sam


----------



## forestryworks

bustedup said:


> Can I ask did ya take a limb of the backside before ya faced it up. I may not be seeing the pic right but if ya did it shows that ya worked things out really well (ya even got your camera man rolling lol) which I think shows skill and knowledge



Yep. It would have smacked a storage shed after hitting the lay and rolling to my right as I guessed.



Rounder said:


> Thought you were in ID J.C., I know for a fact they've got better timber than that
> 
> Glad you're keeping busy, you still in ID? Sounds like I'll be over that way for the better part of the next year.....Catch up with ya sometime if you're still in that neck of the weeds.
> 
> Take care - Sam



Working in the Midwest for now, Sam. I'll have to come up for a burger and a beer this summer.


----------



## HuskStihl

twochains said:


> I don't know exactly what it is but with that long bar, I have been throwing some big kerfs. I pre-viewed 2 vids I shot today and was like Holy ####! I actually don't even know how I got away with it. The odd thing was while I was cutting everything seemed right, but when I watched on the vids...there it was, bigger than ####!



I thought they were shallow and kinda flat:msp_biggrin:


----------



## roberte

trx250r180 said:


> i bet you had to use a springboard on that tree



Springboard, lmbfao, good come back Brian


----------



## twochains

huskstihl said:


> i thought they were shallow and kinda flat:msp_biggrin:


----------



## treeslayer2003

tc I couldn't see the vid for some reason, but I bet ya got um down just fine


----------



## Trx250r180

roberte said:


> Looks like your high stumping :jester::greenchainsaw:



you say something about high stumps ?
View attachment 294095
View attachment 294096
View attachment 294097
View attachment 294098
View attachment 294099


----------



## roberte

trx250r180 said:


> you say something about high stumps ?
> View attachment 294095
> View attachment 294096
> View attachment 294097
> View attachment 294098
> View attachment 294099



yes sir, just a little high


----------



## paccity

the one by the road is not to high. unless you brought a bunch of spare chains with you.


----------



## Hddnis

Only cedar I've cut were yard trees and I might be wrong but they seemed to behave a little better if they were cut just a bit high. 

Flip side of that though is up in N. Idaho they cut those cedars off at ground level, like just a few inches of stump. I was told it has something to do with the way mills pay for the logs they want every inch possible for cedar. So I guess I dunno, but yeah, those seemed a little on the tall side.




Mr. HE


----------



## Trx250r180

Hddnis said:


> Only cedar I've cut were yard trees and I might be wrong but they seemed to behave a little better if they were cut just a bit high.
> 
> Flip side of that though is up in N. Idaho they cut those cedars off at ground level, like just a few inches of stump. I was told it has something to do with the way mills pay for the logs they want every inch possible for cedar. So I guess I dunno, but yeah, those seemed a little on the tall side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. HE



around here they pay by the small end of the log ,if you have butt swell its all waste ,plus they don't stack nice on the truck


----------



## Hddnis

trx250r180 said:


> around here they pay by the small end of the log ,if you have butt swell its all waste ,plus they don't stack nice on the truck




That is pretty standard. 

The job I saw was going for shakes and they were moving logs with huge butt swell. It was a little out of the ordinary. I'd ask the guy I knew that was working that job but since he stole a chainsaw from my friend we're not on talking terms.




Mr. HE


----------



## roberte

Hddnis said:


> Only cedar I've cut were yard trees and I might be wrong but they seemed to behave a little better if they were cut just a bit high.
> 
> Flip side of that though is up in N. Idaho they cut those cedars off at ground level, like just a few inches of stump. I was told it has something to do with the way mills pay for the logs they want every inch possible for cedar. *So I guess I dunno, but yeah, those seemed a little on the tall side*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. HE



Well im just jacking him up anyway, oar to the beehive.
I wasn't there and I wasn't on the saw, so I don't know what the conditions were


----------



## tramp bushler

trx250r180 said:


> does falling a tree on you bar count as falling :hmm3grin2orange:
> View attachment 293914




Ya, been there, done with that.
Too many times.


----------



## HuskStihl

trx250r180 said:


> does falling a tree on you bar count as falling :hmm3grin2orange:
> View attachment 293914



If it doesn't I will have to significantly downgrade my "felled" number


----------



## twochains

Here's one from Sunday. I hope I'm not boring everybody with these vids. I have 2 that I am going to cut out the limbing if I can figure out how to edit! :hmm3grin2orange:

The 2nd and 3rd pine in the vid were leaning up the hill and were going to swamp the skid trail, so I side hilled them and manipulated the hinge to make the swing. I brought them around I figure 90*...for as bad as they were leaning, I was fairly pleased.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tP7d3_v6Wn0


----------



## Blazin

twochains said:


> Here's one from Sunday. I hope I'm not boring everybody with these vids. I have 2 that I am going to cut out the limbing if I can figure out how to edit! :hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> The 2nd and 3rd pine in the vid were leaning up the hill and were going to swamp the skid trail, so I side hilled them and manipulated the hinge to make the swing. I brought them around I figure 90*...for as bad as they were leaning, I was fairly pleased.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tP7d3_v6Wn0



Your saw is tired, other than that you're headed in the right direction :msp_thumbup:


----------



## bustedup

Blazin said:


> Your saw is tired, other than that you're headed in the right direction :msp_thumbup:



Ya did fine


----------



## bustedup

It's when ya go to the shop to replace the bar that's when I cry ........guess I need to improve my technique might save on paper tissues and crying in the saw dealer is embarrassing lol


----------



## RandyMac

bustedup said:


> It's when ya go to the shop to replace the bar that's when I cry ........guess I need to improve my technique might save on paper tissues and crying in the saw dealer is embarrassing lol



Just wait until a tree takes your saw away from you and when you find it, you kick dirt over it.


----------



## 056 kid

Blazin said:


> Your saw is tired, other than that you're headed in the right direction :msp_thumbup:



Open the muffler.


----------



## bustedup

RandyMac said:


> Just wait until a tree takes your saw away from you and when you find it, you kick dirt over it.



Never had that ....but wife took it off me once......she didn't like it in the bed lol......


----------



## roberte

bustedup said:


> Never had that ....but wife took it off me once......she didn't like it in the bed lol......



Yeah she said you were "falling" asleep.


----------



## bustedup

roberte said:


> Yeah she said you were "falling" asleep.



Nope was the gas leaking out and me smoking that did it


----------



## jrcat

bustedup said:


> It's when ya go to the shop to replace the bar that's when I cry ........guess I need to improve my technique might save on paper tissues and crying in the saw dealer is embarrassing lol



Cry baby lol


----------



## tramp bushler

Looks good TC. Unless you like lots of noise you don't need to open up the muffler. 
The chain then the bar are where its at. Then the motor. . I have to admit I started laughing when you got hung in that limb. . But only because I've done it a thousand times. That's why I wear a Riggin ax.


----------



## HuskStihl

Being definitely worse on the stump than you I have no place commenting, but in each new video you have posted your cutting looks better "thought out". I've felt your 046 was underperforming from the first video, but your dropping wood, so whatever. I can't believe you didn't face those first two monsters, I was sure that 4 incher was gonna ruin your day


----------



## hammerlogging

tramp bushler said:


> Looks good TC. Unless you like lots of noise you don't need to open up the muffler.
> The chain then the bar are where its at. Then the motor.



But if you can jump 1000 rpm and jump the torque in 5 minute and $0 improvement, why not?


----------



## Spotted Owl

RandyMac said:


> Just wait until a tree takes your saw away from you and when you find it, you kick dirt over it.




That blows. It's also the longest pack out you will ever have. And, with out fail someone will be at the truck asking questions too.



Owl


----------



## Gologit

Every time.


----------



## HuskStihl

Spotted Owl said:


> That blows. It's also the longest pack out you will ever have. And, with out fail someone will be at the truck asking questions too.
> 
> 
> 
> Owl





Gologit said:


> Every time.



I'd probably be the guy at the truck asking the questions. I figure if it has happened to Randy, everybody should get at least one free pass. I killed a nice 359 with the Bush hog cause I was too senile to remember where I left it. I just found a 1 inch piece of handle 3 years later. Only had to answer to the wife when I bought a new "little" saw


----------



## northmanlogging

I've never lost a saw, but that's only pure luck, I've had em pull out of my hands and spin all the way around with the tree, get stuffed into a swamp, get launched 20' to my left. had the bars bend almost 90 degrees and return to true, but never have crunched one or not been able to get it running again...


----------



## treeslayer2003

try splainin "what the h##l happened to the saw" to your ol man when your 19. yea he was standin there by the truck when I walked out. thought sure i'd get a good woopin, he just said 
"we can get another one"


----------



## treeslayer2003

northmanlogging said:


> I've never lost a saw, but that's only pure luck, I've had em pull out of my hands and spin all the way around with the tree, get stuffed into a swamp, get launched 20' to my left. had the bars bend almost 90 degrees and return to true, but never have crunched one or not been able to get it running again...



frozen ground and 3 foot beech, they crunch. I didn't think I needed wedges back then


----------



## RandyMac

Mine was the result of idiocy, it wasn't repeated.


----------



## treeslayer2003

RandyMac said:


> Mine was the result of idiocy, it wasn't repeated.



well I had to do it twice, that was quite enough. you know hard headed young men gotta learn the hard way

by the way boys, I did take some pics yesterday. gotta get the wife to show me what to do with um so y'all can see um


----------



## Spotted Owl

RandyMac said:


> Mine was the result of idiocy, it wasn't repeated.




I agree with the first part. I can't say that I followed step with the second. I stopped at two. So far anyway.

I haven't seen any saw fly with out at least a small bit of idiocy involved. Usually a fair amount of it in fact. Even if it was just not paying enough attention to things going on as they go.



Owl


----------



## Metals406

I haven't smooshed one yet. . . Had a whip-Larch take a weird side bounce and baseball bat my legs. Sent me ass over teakettle, and my saw up the hill.

The dern thing was still running as I heard it sliding back down at me. I reached up and grabbed it so it didn't hit me in the beaner.

Then it was back to business.


----------



## Gologit

I've only lost (read as "totally destroyed") a couple of saws. Both times were bucking on steep ground with the trees laid across the hill.
Remember the picture that Cody posted with him laying over the log putting a run in the far side? I lost my first saw just that way. The whole tree went down the hill and I had to scramble to keep from going with it. I knew the log was a little shaky but I was young and quick. And not real smart.
From then on I'd try to stand or stay on one knee when I was up on a big one like that. It made it easier to bail out.

A couple of years ago I was at the saw shop when a guy came in, obviously a faller, and hollered at the parts guy as he came through the door... "Hey, I need some 066 parts" The parts guy asked him what he needed and the faller held up a sparkplug..."Everything but this...and I don't want to talk about it".


----------



## HuskStihl

treeslayer2003 said:


> by the way boys, I did take some pics yesterday. gotta get the wife to show me what to do with um so y'all can see um



I don't know TS, with all the cool videos TC has been posting, pics might not cut it anymore! Wives are generally very supportive and helpful, and I'm sure yours would be willing to spend a day recording videos of you falling for us to enjoy. Seriously though, I for one really enjoy seeing what my "(insert expletive of my wife's choice here) chainsaw friends" are doing. I figure if she can spend hours "friending" and "poking" all her exes on the other site, I should be able to hang out with SlowP and the boys here


----------



## forestryworks

Never lost a saw, yet, but did lose a sate-issued radio one day. A tall whippy southern pine decided it didn't like where I put its top, so it sprung a good 32' of log back at me, square in the chest. The radio broke to pieces, and the 066 and I sailed backwards down the hill. A bruised forearm and a sore elbow were the only bodily damage.


----------



## RandyMac

I lost more than one, but only one to doing something I shouldn't have. Like Bob, steep sidehill bucking got one. The other got eaten by a big Madrone I was limbing, it decided to fling it into the fire, no biggy, it was the State's Echo.


----------



## Sport Faller

Haywire said:


> That's like in the old-timey westerns when the sheriffs star badge stops the bullet from killin' him!



I'm thinkin that or Eastwood in a Fist full of Dollars with the steel chest plate when Indio tries to smoke him with the rifle


----------



## forestryworks

Sport Faller said:


> I'm thinkin that or Eastwood in a Fist full of Dollars with the steel chest plate when Indio tries to smoke him with the rifle



Where the hell you been, hoss?


----------



## Sport Faller

forestryworks said:


> Where the hell you been, hoss?



Oh, just working and whatnot, getting a new job working in the woods


----------



## tramp bushler

Only smashed 3 saws so far. A 64 , a 44 and a 394 . . Everyone from misjudging the lean and cutting off what turned out to be the high side holding wood. . God protected several others that went down the mountain hooked to a tree. One of them went over 500' down over/thru my fell and bucked.


----------



## Trx250r180

my 10mm 044 was victim to a skidder tire once ,it wears a 440 tank now


----------



## Metals406

Sport Faller said:


> Oh, just working and whatnot, getting a new job working in the woods



You should PM me with how that went.


----------



## Sport Faller

Metals406 said:


> You should PM me with how that went.



Hell, I'll air it out right here :hmm3grin2orange:

Going to work skidding in a couple weeks, have known the new boss for a few years now and like him quite a bit. The fam. acted like I told them I was pursuing a career in the heroin business when I told them what was up, and was repeatedly and unsuccessfully bullied and shamed into staying at my current job, it was like a scene from Rudy there for a while. LOL


----------



## jrcat

View attachment 294271
View attachment 294272
View attachment 294273
View attachment 294274
View attachment 294275


----------



## Gologit

Sport Faller said:


> Hell, I'll air it out right here :hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> Going to work skidding in a couple weeks, have known the new boss for a few years now and like him quite a bit. The fam. acted like I told them I was pursuing a career in the heroin business when I told them what was up, and was repeatedly and unsuccessfully bullied and shamed into staying at my current job, it was like a scene from Rudy there for a while. LOL



Jake, I won't take sides here but if you want to go logging and you don't go you'll always wish you had. 

If it doesn't pan out you can always go back into the steel business or something else even.


----------



## Sport Faller

Gologit said:


> Jake, I won't take sides here but if you want to go logging and you don't go you'll always wish you had.
> 
> If it doesn't pan out you can always go back into the steel business or something else even.



Thanks Bob, I think I'd panhandle at Walmart before I went back into the steel business. I got to do a pre-hiring "preview" last Saturday, ran the skidder around snatching up drags for a half day and it was a blast, kindof like driving a monster truck I imagine, but the first tall stump you drive over gets the pucker factor waay up. Plus I need to add on to my storied job history LOL, I've been a 
Card Dealer
Bouncer
Construction Worker
Butcher
Office Guy
Gun Barrel Maker 
and a Barely Scraping By Firewooder


----------



## treeslayer2003

trx250r180 said:


> my 10mm 044 was victim to a skidder tire once ,it wears a 440 tank now



can you believe I did the same thing once. same saw, ran over it with a s8 international, only bent handle bar and broke clutch cover. started right up! tuff saw


----------



## treeslayer2003

jrcat said:


> View attachment 294271
> View attachment 294272
> View attachment 294273
> View attachment 294274
> View attachment 294275



great pics cat, looks like what i'm cutting. great job.


----------



## jrcat

The first 2 pics I was trying to get the idea of the lean. It was fairly flat ground but the tree leaned hard to one direction and the top leaned in the opposite direction. So I put my face cut to the side that the top was leaning. I didnt bore out the center I wanted to leave as much holding wood as possible, so I stayed with it to keep the center from pulling out, hence very little holding wood showing in the pic. Probably dangerous but I didn't know what else to do. I am open to criticism and pointers. I wish I could have got video.


----------



## treeslayer2003

jrcat said:


> The first 2 pics I was trying to get the idea of the lean. It was fairly flat ground but the tree leaned hard to one direction and the top leaned in the opposite direction. So I put my face cut to the side that the top was leaning. I didnt bore out the center I wanted to leave as much holding wood as possible, so I stayed with it to keep the center from pulling out, hence very little holding wood showing in the pic. Probably dangerous but I didn't know what else to do. I am open to criticism and pointers. I wish I could have got video.



looks good, I never leave much holding wood on grade logs. buyers don't like it and risk slabing.
if it went where you wanted you done fine


----------



## jrcat

It went right where I wanted it. I laid another down just after the one in the pics, same situation except on a side hill. I sacrificed a paper birch used it to cushion the fall. The log truck came right on time today just as I finished bucking up. He had a heck of a time getting those red oak monsters on..HEAVY. He had to weave them through the bunks. He got 4200 feet on that load. The land owner was over joyed when I handed him his loot lol. I like dealing with this mill. they scale it as soon as it comes in and print out the check. None of this 30 day pay schedule crap the larger mills in the area like to do.


----------



## treeslayer2003

jrcat said:


> It went right where I wanted it. I laid another down just after the one in the pics, same situation except on a side hill. I sacrificed a paper birch used it to cushion the fall. The log truck came right on time today just as I finished bucking up. He had a heck of a time getting those red oak monsters on..HEAVY. He had to weave them through the bunks. He got 4200 feet on that load. The land owner was over joyed when I handed him his loot lol. I like dealing with this mill. they scale it as soon as it comes in and print out the check. None of this 30 day pay schedule crap the larger mills in the area like to do.



yea woods heavy as lead here right now too, pops overloaded every load. 30 days?!!!? they wouldn't get no wood from me.:msp_ohmy:


----------



## treeslayer2003

tramp bushler said:


> Looks good TC. Unless you like lots of noise you don't need to open up the muffler.
> The chain then the bar are where its at. Then the motor. . I have to admit I started laughing when you got hung in that limb. . But only because I've done it a thousand times. That's why I wear a Riggin ax.



thought of this today, he prolly filed it for hardwood


----------



## bustedup

jrcat said:


> View attachment 294271
> View attachment 294272
> View attachment 294273
> View attachment 294274
> View attachment 294275



Your doing fine bro. 


I'd rather swing softwood than hardwood as imo it easier hards pop split and crack easier and quicker than softs do. That maybe just me tho


----------



## Rounder

Sport Faller said:


> Hell, I'll air it out right here :hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> Going to work skidding in a couple weeks, have known the new boss for a few years now and like him quite a bit. The fam. acted like I told them I was pursuing a career in the heroin business when I told them what was up, and was repeatedly and unsuccessfully bullied and shamed into staying at my current job, it was like a scene from Rudy there for a while. LOL



Good deal Jake. Do me a favor and keep your ears open for any falling jobs up that way.....Wife is doing the telecommuting deal now, so we've got some freedom to move around.....I like it up there.


----------



## treeslayer2003

bustedup said:


> Your doing fine bro.
> 
> 
> I'd rather swing softwood than hardwood as imo it easier hards pop split and crack easier and quicker than softs do. That maybe just me tho



it ain't just you, a lot of hardwood will bust, depends on what kind and where growing. we have both and have to cut according.


----------



## bustedup

treeslayer2003 said:


> it ain't just you, a lot of hardwood will bust, depends on what kind and where growing. we have both and have to cut according.



That so true a statement bro. Ya cut according to what type and species ya cutting as not all behave the same.


Hards imo usually grow every which way but straight lol they side lean back lean have split leads, heavy top wood and head lean and that can be all in the same tree lol. 


I guess that's where experience comes in. Judgement and reading the stick.


The pics posted on here by the fallers ya can see that they read the stick etc and also where they gonna lay it down. I guess that's what makes a faller, other things to but experience and knowledge is apparent by the pics.


----------



## twochains

True that! ^^^ I had on last week that was about 2ft stump, right as I was trying to burn the hinge it started wanting to chair a bit and stres cracked real faintly. Well when I went and topped it at the 4th log it just kinda blew all to hell. The seperation on the small end was on the same plane as the stress crack that appeared in the butt. It got me to thinking it was either such a straight grain or a flaw in the grain. That kinda stuff doesn't happen often, so I'm thinking grain flaw.


----------



## jrcat

Hard maple seems to be the toughest of the hard woods I have dealt with and american beech. Maple seems to be able to take one heck of a hard landing maybe thats why more and more baseball bats are being made out of maple. I have never had beech split on me. Aside of those two I have had almost all other species of hardwoods split on me. I had a fair amount of practice cutting wood to feed chippers. I think the worst for splitting is hickory.


----------



## bustedup

twochains said:


> True that! ^^^ I had on last week that was about 2ft stump, right as I was trying to burn the hinge it started wanting to chair a bit and stres cracked real faintly. Well when I went and topped it at the 4th log it just kinda blew all to hell. The seperation on the small end was on the same plane as the stress crack that appeared in the butt. It got me to thinking it was either such a straight grain or a flaw in the grain. That kinda stuff doesn't happen often, so I'm thinking grain flaw.



I guessing it was a hardwood? I have had those split right up the centre which does make ya tighten up a bit ......oh and run too


----------



## treeslayer2003

twochains said:


> True that! ^^^ I had on last week that was about 2ft stump, right as I was trying to burn the hinge it started wanting to chair a bit and stres cracked real faintly. Well when I went and topped it at the 4th log it just kinda blew all to hell. The seperation on the small end was on the same plane as the stress crack that appeared in the butt. It got me to thinking it was either such a straight grain or a flaw in the grain. That kinda stuff doesn't happen often, so I'm thinking grain flaw.



its a flaw, lots of it in white oak here. the tree grew twisted or in a windy place. cut one today could hear and feel stump cracking while cutting.thats why put in deeper front cut so get through back quikly. if can get um down solid they still stave even tho flawed.yea I stay at the stump long time guess i'm used to it......yea I've seen beech do it to


----------



## twochains

Water oak. Had I have not stayed commited at the first sign of that initial stress crack it would have chaired right up the center. Water oaks can be kinds funny sometimes though. Like a head leaning water oak...they seem to rather be flopped on their side rather than with the lean.


----------



## jrcat

twochains said:


> True that! ^^^ I had on last week that was about 2ft stump, right as I was trying to burn the hinge it started wanting to chair a bit and stres cracked real faintly. Well when I went and topped it at the 4th log it just kinda blew all to hell. The seperation on the small end was on the same plane as the stress crack that appeared in the butt. It got me to thinking it was either such a straight grain or a flaw in the grain. That kinda stuff doesn't happen often, so I'm thinking grain flaw.



I have seen old crotches grown right into the stem.. would never have known it was there untill it was cut into and split wide open. I was bucking up an oak and about halfway through the cut it popped. I leave all of my veneer logs at 21' now that you have some room for checking and such. 

Black locust will practically explode under certain conditions lol and talk about "grain flaws" that stuff seems to twist and pull and do all sorts of contortions all in a straight stick. just my 2 cents


----------



## treeslayer2003

twochains said:


> Water oak. Had I have not stayed commited at the first sign of that initial stress crack it would have chaired right up the center. Water oaks can be kinds funny sometimes though. Like a head leaning water oak...they seem to rather be flopped on their side rather than with the lean.



ain't that sumpin, water oak here is tough. most times can swing the crap outta that n pull wood outta the stump. it won't grade tho strictly matt log.


----------



## twochains

treeslayer2003..dude! I just checked out yer photo album!!!  :msp_thumbsup:  :hmm3grin2orange:

You need to post them pics on here for more folks to see!! Ultra nice!!! $$$$$$$


----------



## treeslayer2003

jrcat said:


> I have seen old crotches grown right into the stem.. would never have known it was there untill it was cut into and split wide open. I was bucking up an oak and about halfway through the cut it popped. I leave all of my veneer logs at 21' now that you have some room for checking and such.
> 
> Black locust will practically explode under certain conditions lol and talk about "grain flaws" that stuff seems to twist and pull and do all sorts of contortions all in a straight stick. just my 2 cents



locust scarce here. hard as hell, but no grade on it either. been looking for one for posts can't find when ya want it.


----------



## bustedup

All Sticks need reading but Hardwoods especially so usually there more "going on" with them imo.


All sticks can chair and do things ya don't expect but harwoods imo tend to do so more often ....I guess probably due to their growing cycle and habit etc but the foresters will know more bout that


----------



## jrcat

The red oak here will get a seem right up one side, I have heard it reffered to as a "frost crack". I am not really sure what it really is, but even with that defect they will still sell for veneer.


----------



## treeslayer2003

twochains said:


> treeslayer2003..dude! I just checked out yer photo album!!!  :msp_thumbsup:  :hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> You need to post them pics on here for more folks to see!! Ultra nice!!! $$$$$$$



thanks man, wish I knew how, took the wife a hour to do that.she did post um some were on saw forum. that was about 3 years ago job.


----------



## twochains

bustedup...one thing for sure... you won't see soft wood split rails....(oh Hell, except for ERC...but they are an entirely different story)


----------



## treeslayer2003

jrcat said:


> The red oak here will get a seem right up one side, I have heard it reffered to as a "frost crack". I am not really sure what it really is, but even with that defect they will still sell for veneer.



I've heard that called frost swell. they still sell 3 sides clear.


----------



## jrcat

twochains said:


> treeslayer2003..dude! I just checked out yer photo album!!!  :msp_thumbsup:  :hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> You need to post them pics on here for more folks to see!! Ultra nice!!! $$$$$$$


Yeah he does!!! lol


treeslayer2003 said:


> locust scarce here. hard as hell, but no grade on it either. been looking for one for posts can't find when ya want it.



you want some.......come up here and get it all 3 million feet of it lol


----------



## twochains

treeslayer2003 said:


> thanks man, wish I knew how, took the wife a hour to do that.she did post um some were on saw forum. that was about 3 years ago job.



upload them to photo bucket and use the insert image icon on the AS site


----------



## jrcat

And when I think of cutting soft wood ... this is where I imagine it going to Morbark 50/48 Track Chipper - YouTube :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## treeslayer2003

jrcat said:


> Yeah he does!!! lol
> 
> 
> you want some.......come up here and get it all 3 million feet of it lol



air mail me a fat one :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## treeslayer2003

twochains said:


> upload them to photo bucket and use the insert image icon on the AS site



we'll get on that soon, thanks for the tip. :biggrin:


----------



## jrcat

treeslayer2003 said:


> air mail me a fat one :hmm3grin2orange:



sure I'll get right on that lol One tooth pick at a time I'll number them then all you to do is glue them back together


----------



## treeslayer2003

jrcat said:


> sure I'll get right on that lol One tooth pick at a time I'll number them then all you to do is glue them back together



LOL :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## bustedup

Jcat I just watched that chipper vid lol.......guess you have a dislike of softwood lol.......thereby if anyone sees Jcat rolling up with one of them .............GUARD YA DECKED WOOD or he'll chip it lol


----------



## jrcat

bustedup said:


> Jcat I just watched that chipper vid lol.......guess you have a dislike of softwood lol.......thereby if anyone sees Jcat rolling up with one of them .............GUARD YA DECKED WOOD or he'll chip it lol



Thats right...to the tune of 400 ton an hour lol. Randy Mac was qouted once about 6 cubes go forth and fear no evil. I like 27 liters go forth and fear no evil lol.


----------



## jrcat

Now all the softwood guys are going to want to kill me lol. Sorry Randy Mac for robbing your quote, please dont set me ablaze.


----------



## treeslayer2003

just so ya'll know, that was a extraordinary tract. dont' get that every day. was only 7 acres shame it wer't 700


----------



## jrcat

treeslayer2003 said:


> just so ya'll know, that was a extraordinary tract. dont' get that every day. was only 7 acres shame it wer't 700



I know what you mean. Mine is only 20 acres and really nice timber. It's almost like hitting the lottery.


----------



## jrcat

I am not looking forward to my footage going up and my average $$$ per load going down.


----------



## treeslayer2003

jrcat said:


> I am not looking forward to my footage going up and my average $$$ per load going down.



can't be in high cotton all the time, gotta love loggin


----------



## jrcat

treeslayer2003 said:


> can't be in high cotton all the time, gotta love loggin



Along with the cake comes the crap sandwhich? :msp_confused:


----------



## bitzer

Two Chains- All yer videos got me thinkin. I wonder how long it really takes me to put a tree on the ground. Here it is stray kerfs and all. Havin an off day, usually I'm hittin the corners a little better. 

[video=youtube;Wc9eb3U5_w4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wc9eb3U5_w4[/video]

And the stump-







View attachment 294384


----------



## bitzer

OlympicYJ- Here you go. The last time I used a soft dutch was in January. Not sure when before that. When it works its fun. 

[video=youtube;OmHPbjZgEqA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmHPbjZgEqA[/video]


----------



## treeslayer2003

jrcat said:


> Along with the cake comes the crap sandwhich? :msp_confused:



good with the bad


----------



## bitzer

[video=youtube;_mf75teGSnY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mf75teGSnY[/video]

A big problem with this cut in hardwood is the heavy top. In straight stick basswood or ash it usually works just fine without the coaxing.


----------



## treeslayer2003

bitzer said:


> [video=youtube;_mf75teGSnY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mf75teGSnY[/video]
> 
> A big problem with this cut in hardwood is the heavy top. In straight stick basswood or ash it usually works just fine without the coaxing.



so that's a soft dutch, yea I have done that. was that a ash there? hard to tell leaves not out where you are huh. bark slipping bad here, looks like a jungle now.


----------



## jrcat

Awesome vids bitzer


----------



## bitzer

Just some pics from the latest job. No leaves up here yet.






It was fun trying to save the reds out that were leaning WAY over that gully. Set up some small maples in the bottom to take the blow.





Fun lettin this one ride.






View attachment 294386

View attachment 294387

View attachment 294388


----------



## jrcat

The leaves are on here now. It is like a jungle 2 weeks ago I could see 200 yards through the woods now I cant see but 50 feet.


----------



## bitzer

Thanks jrcat! 

Treeslayer- that is a red oak. We get 6-7 months of leaves up here. You learn the bark and form pretty quick.


----------



## treeslayer2003

them red oaks look good. maybe inch n a half sap

bark looked different in the pic. little diff than whats here


----------



## jrcat

Where at in hardwood country are you bitzer?


----------



## HuskStihl

Holy #### Bitz, that was awesome! That first fall was great, mismatched cuts or not, that's a big-assed hardwood to the ground in a minute. I've seen a Bob falling video, crazy fast without looking like it, yours looked just as good. I'd love to see all you pro-boys post a few of these. It's fun for chainsaw dreamers to watch. I know we're not supposed to talk about saws on this thread, but your 395 (i think) is one royal #####-slapper of a saw.
Thanks for posting.

Oh, btw, you Sir, have a potty mouth! I'd hate to think my impression of loggers usually being hoity-toity pinky in the air types was all wrong!


----------



## bitzer

jrcat said:


> Where at in hardwood country are you bitzer?



Southern WI. More on the East side though.


For the record I high stumped those two in the videos because there have been some serious heart issues in this stand. This was definitely pastured years ago.


----------



## treeslayer2003

bitzer said:


> Southern WI. More on the East side though.
> 
> 
> For the record I high stumped those two in the videos because there have been some serious heart issues in this stand. This was definitely pastured years ago.



yea I noticed that, I bet they clean up tho wood looks good plenty long. you bucking them in woods?


----------



## bitzer

HuskStihl said:


> Holy #### Bitz, that was awesome! That first fall was great, mismatched cuts or not, that's a big-assed hardwood to the ground in a minute. I've seen a Bob falling video, crazy fast without looking like it, yours looked just as good. I'd love to see all you pro-boys post a few of these. It's fun for chainsaw dreamers to watch. I know we're not supposed to talk about saws on this thread, but your 395 (i think) is one royal #####-slapper of a saw.
> Thanks for posting.
> 
> Oh, btw, you Sir, have a potty mouth! I'd hate to think my impression of loggers usually being hoity-toity pinky in the air types was all wrong!



Hahaha! I thought to myself before I made the vids that I wouldn't swear. Ehh, just part of the territory I guess. The saw is a 390 32" bar. Ported and muff modded myself and its on its last legs. Probably 12-1500 hours on that one and just under a year old. I've got a new one in the works in the next week or so. Its nickel and diming me. I can see how timber fallers that work for a high production show go through 2-3 saws a year. 

Thank you!


----------



## bitzer

treeslayer2003 said:


> yea I noticed that, I bet they clean up tho wood looks good plenty long. you bucking them in woods?



Yep bucking and pulpin out the tops. I hate the pulpin. Firewood cash is nice when you get it though.


----------



## treeslayer2003

bitzer said:


> Yep bucking and pulpin out the tops. I hate the pulpin. Firewood cash is nice when you get it though.



yea I got a couple guys buggin me for a load a farwood extra work but i'll do it.watha pullin out with?


----------



## bitzer

Another for the record before I hit the hay- Gologit, Hammer, Rounder, 056, Randy(in his heyday), GreyStroke, Greenwedge, and a few others could cut circles around me.


----------



## bitzer

treeslayer2003 said:


> yea I got a couple guys buggin me for a load a farwood extra work but i'll do it.watha pullin out with?



Franklin 132 roof mount forwarder. I was skidding about 2500bf an hour on Monday. Not a short or easy skid either. You can really load that thing.


----------



## bitzer

Geez I forgot Tramp and Burvol.... in that cutting circles around me category. I'm sure I forgot some more. Having too many kids eats away at the memory. 


Sunshine and lollipops this morning and I'm at home lookin for a good fuel injection pump guy. Man, I hate downtime.


----------



## HuskStihl

bitzer said:


> Another for the record before I hit the hay- Gologit, Hammer, Rounder, 056, Randy(in his heyday), GreyStroke, Greenwedge, and a few others could cut circles around me.



I'm planning on sending my 385 to TN for some massage therapy this winter. Skill aside, your saw looks a hell of a lot more than 3cc's and .2hp stronger than mine. 

It's nice to see humility, but "if somebody asks if you're a god, you say YES!"

Next thing you'll be adding Dano, Snelling and me to the list!

I was so impressed I actually booted up my pc and rewatched them on the "big screen"


----------



## tramp bushler

Bitzers saw sounds pretty good. But what your seeing in his vids is a good sharp saw and a true bar. 

Bitz ; that sucks about the injection pump.


----------



## tramp bushler

HS. Your cutting speed will increase if you get some Riggin pants and guylines. Stag em off and keep them guylines tight. In your vids it looked like u had a shop rag tied around your ankles :msp_tongue:
How ya gonna run like that. :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## bitzer

HuskStihl said:


> "if somebody asks if you're a god, you say YES!"



Ghostbusters. Good movie. "Get er Ray!" Man there are some good lines in there. 

Yeah I'm really nothing special. When you make your living off of pieces you figure out the fastest and most efficient way to make em.


----------



## bitzer

tramp bushler said:


> Bitzers saw sounds pretty good. But what your seeing in his vids is a good sharp saw and a true bar.
> 
> Bitz ; that sucks about the injection pump.



I found a place I can run the pump too in the morning. I had a throttle cable snap the other day and I just happened to notice it leaking. Hopefully they take it easy on me. My wife saw this an opportunity for her to go to work, so I'm stuck in today. Rains on the way anyway I guess. 


That saw doesn't cut worth a damn when you hit a rock! This job is especially rocky. I've been packin 5 chains out with me each day and no I'm not that lazy on the ground buck! I've been leaving a lot of sap wood in the bucks. Really have to keep an eye on the tip at all times. Damn cows I tell ya.


----------



## HuskStihl

tramp bushler said:


> HS. Your cutting speed will increase if you get some Riggin pants and guylines. Stag em off and keep them guylines tight. In your vids it looked like u had a shop rag tied around your ankles :msp_tongue:
> How ya gonna run like that. :hmm3grin2orange:



Oh, I'm pretty sure dressing like I know what I'm doing is not gonna help my cutting speed!

I found a quote from a few years ago on another site about this, guess who it's from?



_"What's the big mystery? We stagged off our pants so they wouldn't snag on stuff. I never heard it called "shagged" either. Since they quit making 'Frisco Jeans a lot of the guys wear Bailey's, Prison Blues, Key, or Carhart...anything roomy with lots of pockets. If we're on brushy ground or poison oak a long sleeve shirt is good. It's hot around here in the summer so a lot of guys just wear short sleeves. 

I didn't know there was some kind of "secret" reason why we dress like we do. Everybody has a different reason for what they wear but it comes down to this...You wear what works best for you. "_



As for "running", my arthritic hips make any attempt look like some sort of one man three legged race. Usually I have my pants tucked into my socks to keep the ################################## fire ants from ruining my day, and I hear it looks really cool:cool2:

Seriously, thanks for pointing it out (and not suggesting I need big girl panties). The crookeder you fall, the lighter you need to be on your feet.


----------



## Steve NW WI

bitzer said:


> Sunshine and lollipops this morning and I'm at home lookin for a good fuel injection pump guy. Man, I hate downtime.



Bitz, I don't know what place you found, but Diesel Injection Service is top notch, they're in Windsor, just NW of Madison.


----------



## bitzer

Steve NW WI said:


> Bitz, I don't know what place you found, but Diesel Injection Service is top notch, they're in Windsor, just NW of Madison.



I did find that in my search. I'm running it down to Hucksdorf Diesel in Franklin. Its about an hour to the south of me. Thanks for the tip though!


----------



## treeslayer2003

bitzer said:


> Geez I forgot Tramp and Burvol.... in that cutting circles around me category. I'm sure I forgot some more. Having too many kids eats away at the memory.
> 
> 
> Sunshine and lollipops this morning and I'm at home lookin for a good fuel injection pump guy. Man, I hate downtime.



to many kids ya say, what? what was I sayin?
oh fuel pump, on forwarder? saw one once a franklin, I always figured thay'ed sink here in the bottomless muck


----------



## bustedup

cool vids bitzer nice clean cuts and safe it a pleasure to watch.


----------



## 056 kid

twochains said:


> True that! ^^^ I had on last week that was about 2ft stump, right as I was trying to burn the hinge it started wanting to chair a bit and stres cracked real faintly. Well when I went and topped it at the 4th log it just kinda blew all to hell. The seperation on the small end was on the same plane as the stress crack that appeared in the butt. It got me to thinking it was either such a straight grain or a flaw in the grain. That kinda stuff doesn't happen often, so I'm thinking grain flaw.



A good open face will eliminate those kinds of problem. Just sayin... If it was really wind shook you probably whoulda known in the face...


----------



## twochains

056 kid said:


> A good open face will eliminate those kinds of problem. Just sayin... If it was really wind shook you probably whoulda known in the face...



I don't guess I know what you mean about recognizing "shake" in the face. I can recognize shake right off the bat by the smell. Having an extensive career in sawmilling as a head sawyer I can smell shake before the first slab rolls off, and way before you see it's presence in lumber. 

Are you talking about smelling it when you make your face cut? I'm not arguing, I am just trying to grasp what you are saying. Thanks


----------



## treeslayer2003

twochains said:


> I don't guess I know what you mean about recognizing "shake" in the face. I can recognize shake right off the bat by the smell. Having an extensive career in sawmilling as a head sawyer I can smell shake before the first slab rolls off, and way before you see it's presence in lumber.
> 
> Are you talking about smelling it when you make your face cut? I'm not arguing, I am just trying to grasp what you are saying. Thanks



you can smell it? what it smell like?


----------



## Metals406

treeslayer2003 said:


> you can smell it? what it smell like?



Probably smells like losing money!!


----------



## treeslayer2003

Metals406 said:


> Probably smells like losing money!!



yea your right, tho sometimes they'll still stave. maybe smell like hollow/ rotten


----------



## twochains

Shake is a very pungent sour smell. You can definitely smell it. Very loud in red oak, water oak, and bastard oak. I think the smell is actually an acid, I think it is called tanic or tantric acid.


----------



## treeslayer2003

twochains said:


> Shake is a very pungent sour smell. You can definitely smell it. Very loud in red oak, water oak, and bastard oak. I think the smell is actually an acid, I think it is called tanic or tantric acid.



yea tanic acid smells like cat piss, but I never associated it with shake. seldom see it in red oak here. but I will take notice now.


----------



## twochains

If your ever around a mill and smell it...even if you question yourself about it's presence in the lumber...set the "stinky" board out in the sun and I will bet ya a dollar the shake will be pointing at the sun by the end of the day.


----------



## bustedup

It the tannin in oak walnut etc that takes the edge of ya saw quicker


----------



## treeslayer2003

twochains said:


> If your ever around a mill and smell it...even if you question yourself about it's presence in the lumber...set the "stinky" board out in the sun and I will bet ya a dollar the shake will be pointing at the sun by the end of the day.



i'll have to remember that. real bad in cherry here, any cherry looks twisted or grew on the edge its firewood


----------



## treeslayer2003

bustedup said:


> It the tannin in oak walnut etc that takes the edge of ya saw quicker



old timers always said walnut has grit in it. I know it hard on planer blades


----------



## bustedup

treeslayer2003 said:


> old timers always said walnut has grit in it. I know it hard on planer blades



I dunno bout that but oak does take the edge of quicker than others imo I'm sure some of the redwoods have it to but not to sure


----------



## treeslayer2003

that's why I like saw to put out lots of oil, mo chain last longer in oak. ran the new 461r some today I don't see any diff in oiler


----------



## twochains

Ever noticed how fast "ant damaged" timber will dull a saw? Being that I don't have, and have never been told a formal answer as to why this happens...I came up with my own! 

Here it goes...and please set me on fire if I m nowhere near right. Ok, so the ant eats the wood, the acid in it's stomache break it down, changing the eaten wood's chemical composition. Something must happen that turns the sawdust...and I say sawdust because that it essentially was wood before the carpenter ants ate it, and basically comes out as saw dust from Hell. 

I bet all you guys have noticed it while cutting, surely. Well I used to run Si-Chrome dipped saw bits that were actually pretty tough even in dirty logs. If I would hit a log with a carpenter ant colony in it...INSTA DULL! I mean you might as well shut her off and get out the saw jockey...cause yer dull! 

disclaimer...I'm an idiot


----------



## treeslayer2003

twochains said:


> Ever noticed how fast "ant damaged" timber will dull a saw? Being that I don't have, and have never been told a formal answer as to why this happens...I came up with my own!
> 
> Here it goes...and please set me on fire if I m nowhere near right. Ok, so the ant eats the wood, the acid in it's stomache break it down, changing the eaten wood's chemical composition. Something must happen that turns the sawdust...and I say sawdust because that it essentially was wood before the carpenter ants ate it, and basically comes out as saw dust from Hell.
> 
> I bet all you guys have noticed it while cutting, surely. Well I used to run Si-Chrome dipped saw bits that were actually pretty tough even in dirty logs. If I would hit a log with a carpenter ant colony in it...INSTA DULL! I mean you might as well shut her off and get out the saw jockey...cause yer dull!
> 
> disclaimer...I'm an idiot



nah, I've noticed that to, really any rotten wood. dad says snake crap dulls a saw :msp_scared:


----------



## roberte

twochains said:


> disclaimer...I'm an idiot



no need to disclaim :jester:


----------



## bustedup

treeslayer2003 said:


> nah, I've noticed that to, really any rotten wood. dad says snake crap dulls a saw :msp_scared:



Well dunno bout that but if a snake appeared if I was cutting my crap would blunt the saw lol


----------



## HuskStihl

056 kid said:


> A good open face will eliminate those kinds of problem. Just sayin... If it was really wind shook you probably whoulda known in the face...





twochains said:


> Shake is a very pungent sour smell. You can definitely smell it. Very loud in red oak, water oak, and bastard oak. I think the smell is actually an acid, I think it is called tanic or tantric acid.



I think 56 is talkin about wind "shaking" the tree and being able to see the face subtly opening and closing. Holy ####, did I just answer for the kid? I better be right!


----------



## jrcat

I have gotten into some ant riddled wood before....didnt end well for the ants or the chain.


----------



## bustedup

HuskStihl said:


> I think 56 is talkin about wind "shaking" the tree and being able to see the face subtly opening and closing. Holy ####, did I just answer for the kid? I better be right!



Well sounds right


----------



## bustedup

jrcat said:


> I have gotten into some ant riddled wood before....didnt end well for the ants or the chain.



Ant killer lmao


----------



## roberte

jrcat said:


> I have gotten into some ant riddled wood before....didnt end well for the ants or the chain.



you think ants are fun, try cutting into a bat cave.
oh and lets go with the ants and uncles joke too


----------



## bustedup

roberte said:


> you think ants are fun, try cutting into a bat cave.
> oh and lets go with the ants and uncles joke too



You been in a cave with batman??? was bat girl there too??? lol


----------



## roberte

bustedup said:


> You been in a cave with batman??? was bat girl there too??? lol



im sure there was both kinds in there. hollowed out aspen tree top


----------



## HuskStihl

twochains said:


> Ever noticed how fast "ant damaged" timber will dull a saw? Being that I don't have, and have never been told a formal answer as to why this happens...I came up with my own!
> 
> Here it goes...and please set me on fire if I m nowhere near right. Ok, so the ant eats the wood, the acid in it's stomache break it down, changing the eaten wood's chemical composition. Something must happen that turns the sawdust...and I say sawdust because that it essentially was wood before the carpenter ants ate it, and basically comes out as saw dust from Hell.
> 
> I bet all you guys have noticed it while cutting, surely. Well I used to run Si-Chrome dipped saw bits that were actually pretty tough even in dirty logs. If I would hit a log with a carpenter ant colony in it...INSTA DULL! I mean you might as well shut her off and get out the saw jockey...cause yer dull!
> 
> disclaimer...I'm an idiot





treeslayer2003 said:


> nah, I've noticed that to, really any rotten wood. dad says snake crap dulls a saw :msp_scared:




Another possibility is that the critters track some sort of abrasive, dirt like material into the wood that interacts poorly with all the tantric acid and snake poop, dulling the chain:biggrin:


----------



## jrcat

bustedup said:


> Ant killer lmao



Yes......yes I am


----------



## twochains

treeslayer2003 said:


> nah, I've noticed that to, really any rotten wood. dad says snake crap dulls a saw :msp_scared:



Honest as Hell... I made a pass on a ERC and a fricken snake shot out at the tail man!!! I also sawed a ERC and out of the fork of the log (real ingrown, black and nasty) I hit a clutch of eggs, upon further inspection you could totally tell by the zygote that they were snake eggs! Very neat! The zygotes looked like gigantic sperm with eye balls and a egg yolk sac! Needless to say, the secretary got to see one real up close like...wait...ummm, huh? Never mind... I used to pull the most awesome pranks...I threw an armadillo in her office and slammed the door real quick! :hmm3grin2orange: Some people wanted to fire me over that...go figure


----------



## bustedup

HuskStihl said:


> Another possibility is that the critters track some sort of abrasive, dirt like material into the wood that interacts poorly with all the tantric acid and snake poop, dulling the chain:biggrin:



Your getting technical now


----------



## jrcat

When the earth aligns with the moon mars and jupitor the extra gravitational pull fluxes the flux capacitor and dulls the chain ...but only on wednesday.


----------



## bustedup

twochains said:


> Honest as Hell... I made a pass on a ERC and a fricken snake shot out at the tail man!!! I also sawed a ERC and out of the fork of the log (real ingrown, black and nasty) I hit a clutch of eggs, upon further inspection you could totally tell by the zygote that they were snake eggs! Very neat! The zygotes looked like gigantic sperm with eye balls and a egg yolk sac! Needless to say, the secretary got to see one real up close like...wait...ummm, huh? Never mind... I used to pull the most awesome pranks...I threw an armadillo in her office and slammed the door real quick! :hmm3grin2orange: Some people wanted to fire me over that...go figure



Calling the short bus for ya bro lol


----------



## jrcat

I used to grease up door handles put duct tape over head lights and wire the hot line off the brakes to the horn..... I was baaadddd but hey at least the drivers used to do a thorough pre trip on the trucks:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## jrcat

TC you used to run head rig? I always wanted to but never got a chance. I was told a good sawyer could make good lumber from a junk log and a bad sawyer could make junk lumber from a good log lol. I ran bull edger some and did more than my fair share of stacking and only enough grading to be dangerous lol


----------



## twochains

Yep. 9 years on a Meadows #1 full auto, I was a solo sawyer (no backup + no vacations= burn out)


----------



## Rounder

bitzer said:


> Another for the record before I hit the hay- Gologit, Hammer, Rounder, 056, Randy(in his heyday), GreyStroke, Greenwedge, and a few others could cut circles around me.



And you'd probably hand me my ass in hardwoods Bob.....Ported 390's do put the wood on the ground real quick....Fun stuff.

Take care - Sam


----------



## 056 kid

Wind shake is damage from wind. Seperation of the grain, usually radially. in my experiences it can sometimes be full of liquid, and acts heavy on the stump.


----------



## jrcat

In my neck of the woods it is mostly hemlock that gets shake. Then it is basically chipper fodder. I have yet to come across any hardwood here with shake but then again I do stand to be corrected.


----------



## treeslayer2003

056 kid said:


> Wind shake is damage from wind. Seperation of the grain, usually radially. in my experiences it can sometimes be full of liquid, and acts heavy on the stump.



that's exactly right, like when a water oak lets loose all on yer leg and ya smell it rest a the day.

I see I really missed some bs while I was gone


----------



## jrcat

Thats what you get for leaving ...BS lol


----------



## Metals406

Around deez parts, "shake" or "wind shook" is real easy to spot on the stump after the tree is laying there. Ya just look at the butt, like the Kid says.

Both layers of the radial splits will be coated heavy in pitch/sap. . . Great for firewood, crap fer sawing up at the mill.


----------



## bustedup

056 kid said:


> Wind shake is damage from wind. Seperation of the grain, usually radially. in my experiences it can sometimes be full of liquid, and acts heavy on the stump.



Good point to raise bout the liquid. It can kinda be a WTF moment when it happens if ya not expecting it. Another thing to add to the mix if that happens to take into account when backing one up.


----------



## Eccentric

jrcat said:


> I used to grease up door handles put duct tape over head lights and wire the hot line off the brakes to the horn..... I was baaadddd but hey at least the drivers used to do a thorough pre trip on the trucks:hmm3grin2orange:



I've been known to put a tie wrap (zip tie) or two on a driveshaft. "What the hell is that banging noise???"


----------



## jrcat

Eccentric said:


> I've been known to put a tie wrap (zip tie) or two on a driveshaft. "What the hell is that banging noise???"



Or reach in and pull the hand spike while the truck is warming up... Ive seen guys get out with a hammer and start beating on slack adjusters and scratchin thier heads lol I'm such a nice guy


----------



## bustedup

jrcat said:


> Or reach in and pull the hand spike while the truck is warming up... Ive seen guys get out with a hammer and start beating on slack adjusters and scratchin thier heads lol I'm such a nice guy



your needing the short bus too lol


----------



## jrcat

bustedup said:


> your needing the short bus too lol



Garsh ifin I ride dat dare shorty bus you must be meanin i is dumb ...my mama done said I wasnt to bright.....garsh


----------



## jrcat

I done did knowed I isnt wrapped to tight lol


----------



## jrcat

I really think I am going to need some assistance on this next stand of red oak I am going to cut. All on side hill and leaners. I almost don't want to cut them, I dont like the idea of being dead..I would say I could take some pictures of them but that really doesnt show enough I dont think .


----------



## HuskStihl

HuskStihl said:


> I think 56 is talkin about wind "shaking" the tree and being able to see the face subtly opening and closing. Holy ####, did I just answer for the kid? I better be right!



Well, not unexpectedly I was completely wrong:help:


----------



## jrcat

HuskStihl said:


> Well, not unexpectedly I was completely wrong:help:



How else do you expect to learn. Everyone is wrong more than once in their lives.


----------



## HuskStihl

So I did my first "climbing" today. Probably looked a lot like those pics Tramp posted a while back, but I have no photographic evidence. Anyway, so like my typical amateur self, I was up on my 10ft step ladder with my HT131 pole saw cutting dead limbs from an oak, prolly 25 ft up (wearing my helmet at least). I then proceeded to do what I do on almost every saw cut I have ever made, I pinched the bar hard. I then have the most expensive piece of saw equipment I own stuck with the powerhead hovering about 15 feet off the ground. I fought off my first instinct to cut the tree down, removed the powerhead and "fat" part of the pole from the telescoping part to minimize the pain later. Then I grabbed my trusty lil' 445 and climbed my sorry ass into that tree. Who knew saws were a lot harder to start in a tree? I finally get up to the level of the branch and while holding tight to the trunk (I'm not scared of heights, but am terrified of falling), one handed the branch, reassembled the 131, and went back to pruning. Tons of new respect for Tramp (had plenty to start with) who can one hand a 395 with a 30". That 445 with a 16" took every bit of my manly manliness to handle one handed. The only smart/prepared thing I did was put on a pair of dark pants before heading close to the 20' mark


----------



## northmanlogging

jrcat said:


> I really think I am going to need some assistance on this next stand of red oak I am going to cut. All on side hill and leaners. I almost don't want to cut them, I dont like the idea of being dead..I would say I could take some pictures of them but that really doesnt show enough I dont think .



Are you worried about falling em or skidding em? Falling em while worrisome, not so bad, (without being there???) skidding on a hill is always an exercise in pucker factor.


----------



## jrcat

Falling them. I have gain a lot more confidence lately but I dont want to go off all half cocked an kill myself on a side hill leaner.


----------



## RandyMac

jrcat said:


> Falling them. I have gain a lot more confidence lately but I dont want to go off all half cocked an kill myself on a side hill leaner.



Keep the trunk on the stump as long as you can, go steep and deep on the facecut.


----------



## jrcat

RandyMac said:


> Keep the trunk on the stump as long as you can, go steep and deep on the facecut.



Thanks Randy I will give it a try.


----------



## HuskStihl

jrcat said:


> Falling them. I have gain a lot more confidence lately but I dont want to go off all half cocked an kill myself on a side hill leaner.



I can't help, but it sounds like your head is definitely starting the project on the right place. Luck favors the prepared. Stay safe


----------



## RandyMac

jrcat said:


> Thanks Randy I will give it a try.



It will give you time to run like a rabbit.


----------



## jrcat

HuskStihl said:


> I can't help, but it sounds like your head is definitely starting the project on the right place. Luck favors the prepared. Stay safe



I just dont like dead.....and 6 ton of out of control oak tree I am assuming could make me very dead.


----------



## jrcat

RandyMac said:


> It will give you time to run like a rabbit.



What happened to go forth and fear no evil? lol


----------



## RandyMac

jrcat said:


> What happened to go forth and fear no evil? lol



HaH!
That applies to sawing, with big inch saws. I ran from almost every tree, sometimes I kept going after I heard the crash.


----------



## jrcat

I just had to ask lol. But anyway. so if they are leaning hard up hill go steep and deep?


----------



## northmanlogging

Leaning up hill is a little odd... see if you can quarter them to the lean/up hill, That way they shouldn't run so far down hill (they will still run just have a better chance of getting stuck on something). Humboldt cut is yer friend on hills.


----------



## Metals406

RandyMac said:


> Keep the trunk on the stump as long as you can, Put a *MacKendrick Face Cut™* in it (go steep and deep).



FIXT! :msp_thumbup:


----------



## lumberjack48

Leaner's can be very, very dangerous, which all of us professional tree fellers know. I always used what my dad taught me 53 yrs ago, he called it the Box cut. I never had a tree chair on me using this simple method, notch leaning side about 1/4 deep, strap cut each side about 1/4 deep. finish with back cut. After it falls you'll see why its call the box cut, perfect square in center of the stump. When using a small saw you'll feel safer using this cut on a bad leaner. I always used, power, high rpm, razor sharp saw when felling. But, theres always that BUT, I've had a leaner get away from me, i couldn't keep up with it when it started to split. Like all you tree fallers know, you know when its time to get out of Dodge, this is when it gets scary. When the tree finishes BB Chairing, it will usually fall three ways, straight back or ether side. As a faller, all you can do is run away from it and pray its not falling your way, run, run for something to get behind. After its all over, your in one piece, you ask yourself, [What the Hell were you doing and thinking] we all know better but we always play with Murphy's Law.
The thing is to do it right, don't take short cuts, then you don't have any of this high drama.


----------



## HuskStihl

lumberjack48 said:


> Leaner's can be very, very dangerous, which all of us professional tree fellers know. I always used what my dad taught me 53 yrs ago, he called it the Box cut. I never had a tree chair on me using this simple method, notch leaning side about 1/4 deep, strap cut each side about 1/4 deep. finish with back cut. After it falls you'll see why its call the box cut, perfect square in center of the stump. When using a small saw you'll feel safer using this cut on a bad leaner. I always used, power, high rpm, razor sharp saw when felling. But, theres always that BUT, I've had a leaner get away from me, i couldn't keep up with it when it started to split. Like all you tree fallers know, you know when its time to get out of Dodge, this is when it gets scary. When the tree finishes BB Chairing, it will usually fall three ways, straight back or ether side. As a faller, all you can do is run away from it and pray its not falling your way, run, run for something to get behind. After its all over, your in one piece, you ask yourself, [What the Hell were you doing and thinking] we all know better but we always play with Murphy's Law.
> The thing is to do it right, don't take short cuts, then you don't have any of this high drama.



Great post. I've got some leaners coming up, and was planning on doing a "triangle cut" which may or not be a "coos bay". Sounds like the "box cut" is pretty similar, getting rid of as much extra holding wood as possible before starting the back cut. If I'm feeling ballsy, I might bore a few. Mine are smaller, prolly 20", on flat ground. If they were big, severe and steep, I'd probably drive up to Georgetown, TX, pick up The Jolly Logger and pay him to do it. I have a pretty bad case of IthinkicandothingsIhavenobusinessdoingitis, but what jrcat is describing sounds scary to me


----------



## bustedup

lumberjack48 said:


> Leaner's can be very, very dangerous, which all of us professional tree fellers know. I always used what my dad taught me 53 yrs ago, he called it the Box cut. I never had a tree chair on me using this simple method, notch leaning side about 1/4 deep, strap cut each side about 1/4 deep. finish with back cut. After it falls you'll see why its call the box cut, perfect square in center of the stump. When using a small saw you'll feel safer using this cut on a bad leaner. I always used, power, high rpm, razor sharp saw when felling. But, theres always that BUT, I've had a leaner get away from me, i couldn't keep up with it when it started to split. Like all you tree fallers know, you know when its time to get out of Dodge, this is when it gets scary. When the tree finishes BB Chairing, it will usually fall three ways, straight back or ether side. As a faller, all you can do is run away from it and pray its not falling your way, run, run for something to get behind. After its all over, your in one piece, you ask yourself, [What the Hell were you doing and thinking] we all know better but we always play with Murphy's Law.
> The thing is to do it right, don't take short cuts, then you don't have any of this high drama.



That is a version of the coos bay for larger trees I think.


----------



## bustedup

Jcat are ya trying to swing them away from there lean ? and lay them along the slope ? Is it head lean up hill or side lean or both ? 

sorry just curious


----------



## tramp bushler

HuskStihl said:


> So I did my first "climbing" today. Probably looked a lot like those pics Tramp posted a while back, but I have no photographic evidence. Anyway, so like my typical amateur self, I was up on my 10ft step ladder with my HT131 pole saw cutting dead limbs from an oak, prolly 25 ft up (wearing my helmet at least).
> 
> What belt and spurs do u use?


----------



## HuskStihl

tramp bushler said:


> What belt and spurs do u use?



I got the belt at target, not sure what brand, but it keeps my pants up and appears to be leather. I live in the country in Texas, but I don't ride horses, so no spurs. Why do you ask?:biggrin:


----------



## jrcat

bustedup said:


> Jcat are ya trying to swing them away from there lean ? and lay them along the slope ? Is it head lean up hill or side lean or both ?
> 
> sorry just curious



They lean UP hill and all of them (about 6) are red oak averaging 24" on the stump. One has some pretty severe scaring at the stump from 10 years ago by previous loggers that had a skid road next to it.


----------



## jrcat

HuskStihl said:


> I got the belt at target, not sure what brand, but it keeps my pants up and appears to be leather. I live in the country in Texas, but I don't ride horses, so no spurs. Why do you ask?:biggrin:



You redneck lol. Do you have the big belt buckle too?


----------



## bustedup

jrcat said:


> They lean UP hill and all of them (about 6) are red oak averaging 24" on the stump. One has some pretty severe scaring at the stump from 10 years ago by previous loggers that had a skid road next to it.



Watch the scarred s o b and really sound it well. I can't add any more than you been advised except possibly make your back cut a bit higher that may help ya hold it on the stump a bit longer (depending on the face you use)


----------



## bustedup

HuskStihl said:


> I got the belt at target, not sure what brand, but it keeps my pants up and appears to be leather. I live in the country in Texas, but I don't ride horses, so no spurs. Why do you ask?:biggrin:



:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:


----------



## jrcat

Instinct tells me to put them to the side so they dont slide back down the hill. There is going to be lots of collateral damage either day as long as I dont end up being part of the damage.


----------



## bustedup

jrcat said:


> Instinct tells me to put them to the side so they dont slide back down the hill. There is going to be lots of collateral damage either day as long as I dont end up being part of the damage.



i guess it a judgement call if ya feel more confident going across the slope then you might be better going with that (I'm not saying do that lol) using a step dutch might help ya there if thats the way ya choose to go


----------



## 056 kid

HuskStihl said:


> I got the belt at target, not sure what brand, but it keeps my pants up and appears to be leather. I live in the country in Texas, but I don't ride horses, so no spurs. Why do you ask?:biggrin:



He's talking about climbing gear...


----------



## tramp bushler

He's workin on gettin tramped or at least ignored


----------



## tramp bushler

PHP:







RandyMac said:


> HaH!
> That applies to sawing, with big inch saws. I ran from almost every tree, sometimes I kept going after I heard the crash.




It's pretty amazing how much crap that got tore off on a trees way down flys back and hits the stump. 
I always hated cutting a row of lift trees that it was decided they wouldn't use for the loggin. Nothing to hide behind


----------



## bitzer

Jrcat- are you leaving them tree length or bucking them? I'd be figuring the best way to get the wood out and save out. That's where I'd put them.


Tramp- I don't think he knows any better....


----------



## jrcat

Leaving them tree leangth and bucking on the landing. if they are to long to get out I usally will measure off a 21 footer and cut it then take it out in 2 .


----------



## bitzer

Are you doing the skidding?


----------



## jrcat

bitzer said:


> Are you doing the skidding?



Yeah one man operation. I skid with my little TD8E dresser dozer. It does ok.


----------



## bustedup

Which way is gonna cause ya the least hassle in skidding?


----------



## bitzer

I'm a solo guy too. I put em where ever it is easiest for me to get to them. Sometimes you do have to cut them how ever its safest though. If you are tossing them up hill a Humboldt will keep them from sliding back most of the time.


----------



## jrcat

it really makes no difference for skidding they are going to be a pain to get out either way it goes.


----------



## bustedup

jrcat said:


> it really makes no difference for skidding they are going to be a pain to get out either way it goes.



Then go with laying them the way you feel most confident in doing


----------



## jrcat

I guess so. I like the humboldt idea but I also like Randys steep and deep idea. I have had good luck with steep and deep. I have honestly never tried a humboldt . I usually try to get the stump as low as possible for veneer purposes it gives more room to trim. On thses side hill ones I realize that a low stump is going to be a no go. So I am just going to cut them to get them down safely and save out as much as possible. Mainly I just dont want to be dead or messed up where I wished I was dead.


----------



## bustedup

You'll do fine......The humbolt is better if laying them uphill but if you never do it go with what ya know you'll in the end cut more confidently there by safer


----------



## treeslayer2003

bustedup said:


> You'll do fine......The humbolt is better if laying them uphill but if you never do it go with what ya know you'll in the end cut more confidently there by safer



after a guy tries a couple humbolts, they get like second nature. just try em on easy ones first, you can cut a lower stump than you think with it.

seems to be a lot of us one man bands here


----------



## twochains

jrcat said:


> You redneck lol. Do you have the big belt buckle too?



Ya know what them big belt buckles are for right?? TSFDD! :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## bustedup

twochains said:


> Ya know what them big belt buckles are for right?? TSFDD! :hmm3grin2orange:



LMAO you going medical with that?


----------



## jrcat

twochains said:


> Ya know what them big belt buckles are for right?? TSFDD! :hmm3grin2orange:



Right on man lol I told that to a younger guy once ... he got all cranky I think he wanted to hit me lol. It was AWESOME


----------



## twochains

jrcat said:


> I really think I am going to need some assistance on this next stand of red oak I am going to cut. All on side hill and leaners. I almost don't want to cut them, I dont like the idea of being dead..I would say I could take some pictures of them but that really doesnt show enough I dont think .



I think it was Bitzer that said body mass lean trumps top lean on steep hillsides...you will figure this out when you go to falling those leaners. Be safe, those up hill leaners can come back and visit you faster than you can even imagine. Remember that up hill leaners can sometimes be flopped on their side quartering up the hill. Straight up a hill...always gets the blood pumpin'...and if it doesn't...your not gonna be ready for the unexpected.


----------



## jrcat

treeslayer2003 said:


> after a guy tries a couple humbolts, they get like second nature. just try em on easy ones first, you can cut a lower stump than you think with it.
> 
> seems to be a lot of us one man bands here



One man band is the way to go. I get long with myself just fine. And if something goes wrong I only have myself to blame.


----------



## bustedup

jrcat said:


> One man band is the way to go. I get long with myself just fine. And if something goes wrong I only have myself to blame.



Also bro no boss can put you on a job you don't agree or want to do. Your bustin your rear for you and gaining your good reputation not gaining it for some one else


----------



## paccity

nasty tri sequoia , not much top side but big on the azz . almost 16' at the widest.




then made mulch.


----------



## twochains

THAT IS BAD ASS!!! 

Is that a stump grinder I guess? Dang, must be a wicked piece of machinery!


----------



## HuskStihl

tramp bushler said:


> HS. Your cutting speed will increase if you get some Riggin pants and guylines. Stag em off and keep them guylines tight. In your vids it looked like u had a shop rag tied around your ankles :msp_tongue:
> How ya gonna run like that. :hmm3grin2orange:





056 kid said:


> He's talking about climbing gear...





tramp bushler said:


> He's workin on gettin tramped or at least ignored





tramp bushler said:


> What belt and spurs do u use?



I understood all of Glen's posts, and did not have any difficulty understanding them in aggregate. I completely understand and respect him and what he is saying, and am in agreement :cool2:


----------



## paccity

twochains said:


> THAT IS BAD ASS!!!
> 
> Is that a stump grinder I guess? Dang, must be a wicked piece of machinery!



60hp of wood eating fun. the machine is 13' long and i'm 1/3 into the stump, for size comparison.the center of the tri's was full of dirt:msp_mad:. went threw three chains on it. nice to have a grinder.


----------



## twochains

Yep, looks dirty! Did the tree die or what was the reason for removal? I can't get over that stump grinder! I know a guy who makes bank just grinding stumps...and his a baby compared to what that beast must be. Thanks for sharing


----------



## jrcat

twochains said:


> Yep, looks dirty! Did the tree die or what was the reason for removal? I can't get over that stump grinder! I know a guy who makes bank just grinding stumps...and his a baby compared to what that beast must be. Thanks for sharing



The company I used to work for had 2 vermeer stump grinders one was an 1105 I think. It had the 4.5L cummins at 120 hp I think. all electronic. and the other was a small one on tracks and the smallest cat diesel I have ever seen lol


----------



## paccity

twochains said:


> Yep, looks dirty! Did the tree die or what was the reason for removal? I can't get over that stump grinder! I know a guy who makes bank just grinding stumps...and his a baby compared to what that beast must be. Thanks for sharing



it's dead now. it was the back yard ,so it had to go. we do a craplode of these . they grow fat & fast in the valley .


----------



## paccity

for the falling part of traffic cones like that tree is pretty much chunk and dump.it all comes down eventually.:msp_wink: . make good coin on them.


----------



## twochains

I would imagine so!


----------



## bustedup

paccity said:


> nasty tri sequoia , not much top side but big on the azz . almost 16' at the widest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> then made mulch.



That ain't a stump grinder ......it's a stump eater lol......cool pics


----------



## treeslayer2003

View attachment 294708
View attachment 294709
View attachment 294711
View attachment 294712
View attachment 294714

if I did this right, here are some falling pics. right wrong comments name of cut? watcha think

sorry last pic didn't come thru. still learning new fangled tec stuff


----------



## treeslayer2003

View attachment 294717


this should be the fat pine, wedged it hard to protect leave trees and easyer skidding


----------



## 4x4American

jrcat said:


> I just had to ask lol. But anyway. so if they are leaning hard up hill go steep and deep?



steep and deep, in goes the wedge, toss that sucker over the ledge
-randy mac


----------



## bustedup

treeslayer2003 said:


> View attachment 294708
> View attachment 294709
> View attachment 294711
> View attachment 294712
> View attachment 294714
> 
> if I did this right, here are some falling pics. right wrong comments name of cut? watcha think
> 
> sorry last pic didn't come thru. still learning new fangled tec stuff



well ya got the old fangled stuff right all I can identify is the wedges lol.....they wedge shaped and got red on em


nice fall bro


----------



## 056 kid

Bigger poplar


----------



## treeslayer2003

056 kid said:


> Bigger poplar



that is a nice one, where was it cut?


----------



## jrcat

Cool pics treeslayer and nice cutting. 

What specie is that one 056?


----------



## treeslayer2003

jrcat said:


> Cool pics treeslayer and nice cutting.
> 
> What specie is that one 056?



56s tree is a poplar, ol one by the look of it.


----------



## 056 kid

treeslayer2003 said:


> that is a nice one, where was it cut?



Near Mt. Pisca nc.


jrcat said:


> Cool pics treeslayer and nice cutting.
> 
> What specie is that one 056?



Poplar.


----------



## twochains

I put in my first soft dutchman today to swing a pine tree! I honestly can't believe just how well it worked! Such a simple principle and very effective! I swung that dude 180* to fall in line with the rest of the set. Now I can't wait to find another victim to try it on! I was watching it while making the swing, super awesome to see the compression work to the advantage of the swing!


----------



## bitzer

I've always wanted to get the top going around on video although I don't think it would really show it that well.


----------



## bustedup

bitzer said:


> I've always wanted to get the top going around on video although I don't think it would really show it that well.



It would but the cameraman might get squashed tho due to them having to kinda stand in the lay lol


----------



## northmanlogging

just some teeny tiny hemlocks, allot of work for not much wood, did get one saw log out of most of em though. I can see where a processor is a good thing barely, and grudgingly...


----------



## twochains

Nice work there! :msp_thumbup:


----------



## jrcat

northmanlogging said:


> just some teeny tiny hemlocks, allot of work for not much wood, did get one saw log out of most of em though. I can see where a processor is a good thing barely, and grudgingly...



The amish in my area would be tripping over each other for those "tiny" hemlock lol.


----------



## treeslayer2003

northmanlogging said:


> just some teeny tiny hemlocks, allot of work for not much wood, did get one saw log out of most of em though. I can see where a processor is a good thing barely, and grudgingly...



work is work nm, I wish could cut big trees all the time but work pays bills


----------



## jrcat

My next job only averages 18" on the stump but like Treeslayer said ...it pays the bills. I hate how they knock the grade down on the smaller timber but yet the veneer buyers say they like smaller timber. Their ideal log is in the 18'' to 22" on the butt range. I do understand that soft wood is a totally different market though.


----------



## treeslayer2003

jrcat said:


> My next job only averages 18" on the stump but like Treeslayer said ...it pays the bills. I hate how they knock the grade down on the smaller timber but yet the veneer buyers say they like smaller timber. Their ideal log is in the 18'' to 22" on the butt range. I do understand that soft wood is a totally different market though.



if ya notice, most smaller trees are cleaner, prob is very little feet in um


----------



## jrcat

treeslayer2003 said:


> if ya notice, most smaller trees are cleaner, prob is very little feet in um



Thats what the buyer from webber told me .... and he said that big logs have to much to hide.


----------



## treeslayer2003

jrcat said:


> Thats what the buyer from webber told me .... and he said that big logs have to much to hide.



thing with big poplar my buyer will export um even with a small blem smaller ones just won't export


----------



## jrcat

With the small blem that would be considered 3 sided ?


----------



## treeslayer2003

jrcat said:


> With the small blem that would be considered 3 sided ?



pretty much, seems like the bigger they are the less picky


----------



## jrcat

I am still learning, but there is so much to learn and keep track of.


----------



## treeslayer2003

jrcat said:


> I am still learning, but there is so much to learn and keep track of.



any time I think I got it all figured out, they change summin up


----------



## tramp bushler

twochains said:


> I put in my first soft dutchman today to swing a pine tree! I honestly can't believe just how well it worked! Such a simple principle and very effective! I swung that dude 180* to fall in line with the rest of the set. Now I can't wait to find another victim to try it on! I was watching it while making the swing, super awesome to see the compression work to the advantage of the swing!




We already have a Tarzan on here so you can't be swinging thru the trees . 
I think what yall call a soft dutchman I call a kerf dutchman . Mix a kerf dutchman or 2 or 2 or 3 with a siszwheel and you can Really walk them way around.


----------



## tramp bushler

But dutchmen are tricky guys. They'll sit on ya, kill ya dead and smash your saw. I've smashed 2 saws misjudging trees and putting dutchmen in where they shouldn't have been.. it happens sometimes when you get tired. . But I've used dutchy on many thousand other trees quite successfully 
So my average is really pretty good. opcorn:


----------



## roberte

View attachment 295007

Dead head Alder, yesterdays at the house project

View attachment 295008

Notice the hole in the trunk, bowling ball size. The head and side lean were towards the property line/corner.

View attachment 295010

From the rear out towards my shot. After sounding the trunk with my axe, and peeling bark, a lot more rot was exposed, of course this was were any wedging would take place. So I reexamined my cuts and changed up, wrapped it with a choker about 12 feet up, looked to be about the most solid location.

View attachment 295014

Decided to high stump about 12" above the hole and 6' off the ground and faced it. It didn't take long for dark, wet, red chips to start coming out. A friend was in the truck and I back cut it.

View attachment 295015

It went pretty much the way I planned it out, (I had been studying this one for a while) and made a great bonfire last night. The stump was 24" x 29".


----------



## treeslayer2003

roberte said:


> View attachment 295007
> 
> Dead head Alder, yesterdays at the house project
> 
> View attachment 295008
> 
> Notice the hole in the trunk, bowling ball size. The head and side lean were towards the property line/corner.
> 
> View attachment 295010
> 
> From the rear out towards my shot. After sounding the trunk with my axe, and peeling bark, a lot more rot was exposed, of course this was were any wedging would take place. So I reexamined my cuts and changed up, wrapped it with a choker about 12 feet up, looked to be about the most solid location.
> 
> View attachment 295014
> 
> Decided to high stump about 12" above the hole and 6' off the ground and faced it. It didn't take long for dark, wet, red chips to start coming out. A friend was in the truck and I back cut it.
> 
> View attachment 295015
> 
> It went pretty much the way I planned it out, (I had been studying this one for a while) and made a great bonfire last night. The stump was 24" x 29".



great job man, I hate cutting yard trees, but you got her done


----------



## forestryworks

treeslayer2003 said:


> View attachment 294708
> View attachment 294709
> View attachment 294711
> View attachment 294712
> View attachment 294714
> 
> if I did this right, here are some falling pics. right wrong comments name of cut? watcha think
> 
> sorry last pic didn't come thru. still learning new fangled tec stuff



Conventional face cut. Watch your far side and don't cut it off, unless you have a specific reason to do so. Use the gunning sights on the saw if you ain't.

But the sight of that thick leaf litter and no herbaceous understory makes me cringe! Looks like that area in the pics haven't burned in 40+ years, based on the fire ecology stuff I've been reading for your neck of the woods. :bang:


----------



## bustedup

roberte said:


> View attachment 295007
> 
> Dead head Alder, yesterdays at the house project
> 
> View attachment 295008
> 
> Notice the hole in the trunk, bowling ball size. The head and side lean were towards the property line/corner.
> 
> View attachment 295010
> 
> From the rear out towards my shot. After sounding the trunk with my axe, and peeling bark, a lot more rot was exposed, of course this was were any wedging would take place. So I reexamined my cuts and changed up, wrapped it with a choker about 12 feet up, looked to be about the most solid location.
> 
> View attachment 295014
> 
> Decided to high stump about 12" above the hole and 6' off the ground and faced it. It didn't take long for dark, wet, red chips to start coming out. A friend was in the truck and I back cut it.
> 
> View attachment 295015
> 
> It went pretty much the way I planned it out, (I had been studying this one for a while) and made a great bonfire last night. The stump was 24" x 29".





Nasty one bro good job


----------



## twochains

tramp bushler said:


> But dutchmen are tricky guys. They'll sit on ya, kill ya dead and smash your saw. I've smashed 2 saws misjudging trees and putting dutchmen in where they shouldn't have been.. it happens sometimes when you get tired. . But I've used dutchy on many thousand other trees quite successfully
> So my average is really pretty good. opcorn:



Even though I was successful with the drop...there was something I didn't admit... I made the swing over my head instead of away from me. I was cutting on the other side of the tree that I would normally cut from. The tree was leaning up hill and across the hill to the right. So from where I was cutting, the tree swung down hill sweeping to the right...which was over my head after I sat down and was thinking how to replicate this cut and what the scenario would have to be. Had I of been on my normal side, the tree would have swung away from me. Had the cut have failed...I might have had to do some fancy foot work...like real quick type stuff. Had the cut failed half swing and side hilled itself, from where I was standing...even if i dodged the fall, the butt more than likely would have jumped and swung down the hill when the top hit due to having cut everything down around this tree to it's right.


----------



## bitzer

Tramp-I'd call this a soft dutch. Multiple kerfs. A regular or just a plain ole dutchman is one kerf. I stole the soft dutch from Jack aka hotsaws101 on youtube. So that's from your neck of the woods. 

View attachment 295038


----------



## bitzer

twochains said:


> Even though I was successful with the drop...there was something I didn't admit... I made the swing over my head instead of away from me. I was cutting on the other side of the tree that I would normally cut from. The tree was leaning up hill and across the hill to the right. So from where I was cutting, the tree swung down hill sweeping to the right...which was over my head after I sat down and was thinking how to replicate this cut and what the scenario would have to be. Had I of been on my normal side, the tree would have swung away from me. Had the cut have failed...I might have had to do some fancy foot work...like real quick type stuff. Had the cut failed half swing and side hilled itself, from where I was standing...even if i dodged the fall, the butt more than likely would have jumped and swung down the hill when the top hit due to having cut everything down around this tree to it's right.



I wouldn't do that #### again.


----------



## twochains

bitzer said:


> Tramp-I'd call this a soft dutch. Multiple kerfs. A regular or just a plain ole dutchman is one kerf. I stole the soft dutch from Jack aka hotsaws101 on youtube. So that's from your neck of the woods.
> 
> View attachment 295038



bitzer, that is the vid I was trying to think of. That's where I got my idea. Yeh, I won't let that mistake happen again.


----------



## treeslayer2003

forestryworks said:


> Conventional face cut. Watch your far side and don't cut it off, unless you have a specific reason to do so. Use the gunning sights on the saw if you ain't.
> 
> But the sight of that thick leaf litter and no herbaceous understory makes me cringe! Looks like that area in the pics haven't burned in 40+ years, based on the fire ecology stuff I've been reading for your neck of the woods. :bang:



yea, on the pine with half a hinge, I wanted it to pull to the right some. leave trees are important on this sight as I must leave 70% canopy. I think forester called it fids. that might be wrong don't quot me. really only about a inch or so leaf litter, really thats not much here. little under brush because of canopy and deer, lotta beech here witch is why I hate this rule. if could cut 50-60% like dad did on this same site 27 years ago, beech would be gone so poplar and oak could reforest.
this rule is not beneficial to forestry imo tho I can agree these sites should never be clear cut.

on the pine I wondered if ya'll called that cut any name. leaving one side of hinge

not much fire here like other parts, i'm on the eastern shore its pretty wet much of the time


----------



## treeslayer2003

bitzer said:


> Tramp-I'd call this a soft dutch. Multiple kerfs. A regular or just a plain ole dutchman is one kerf. I stole the soft dutch from Jack aka hotsaws101 on youtube. So that's from your neck of the woods.
> 
> View attachment 295038



i'm cornfused again, thought that was a siswheel with all them cuts.got any more pics?


----------



## strangersfaces

treeslayer2003 said:


> i'm cornfused again, thought that was a siswheel with all them cuts.got any more pics?



Post and pics by bitzer, 3/17/13 showing example of Siswheel


----------



## lumberjack48

Heres a picture of a W-Pine i fell some 30 yrs ago, this block had a lot of nice pine, a few twice as big as this one. Yeh thats a 70 Plus Partner, pretty good saw.


----------



## treeslayer2003

strangersfaces said:


> Post and pics by bitzer, 3/17/13 showing example of Siswheel



thank you sf, I got it now. that is weird, would not expect tree to move right with that. I won't be trying that without seeing a lot more of it. but at least now I know what it is. thanks

if that's a ash ours are deffinatly a different spieces


----------



## treeslayer2003

lumberjack48 said:


> Heres a picture of a W-Pine i fell some 30 yrs ago, this block had a lot of nice pine, a few twice as big as this one. Yeh thats a 70 Plus Partner, pretty good saw.



looks like good work


----------



## B-Edwards

I used to cut right-of-way for the power company so I got to cuts lots of trees, Dad had a sawmill so I got to off-barr (dunno if thats spelled right) Off-bare ,off-bear ,off-,,,, heck I dont know . What I do know is I had to work my ass off moving slabs and packing green heavy lumber.

I remember climbing a big Oak one day cant remember what kind but as I was hooking it (as we did all trees then) (later became an Arborist, certified that is ). Anyway as I was hooking up this big tree I could hear hissing , like a tire leaking air, the sound was coming from where my spikes where piercing the cambium. It stunk like crap also. None of this was milled by us so I dont know if shaken or not but the smell stayed with you.

I've also done a few notches where all of the sudden my foot ,leg would be soaked by the cankered water running out  .


Funny what you remember, hate and miss.




twochains said:


> I don't guess I know what you mean about recognizing "shake" in the face. I can recognize shake right off the bat by the smell. Having an extensive career in sawmilling as a head sawyer I can smell shake before the first slab rolls off, and way before you see it's presence in lumber.
> 
> Are you talking about smelling it when you make your face cut? I'm not arguing, I am just trying to grasp what you are saying. Thanks


----------



## tramp bushler

lumberjack48 said:


> Heres a picture of a W-Pine i fell some 30 yrs ago, this block had a lot of nice pine, a few twice as big as this one. Yeh thats a 70 Plus Partner, pretty good saw.



Seeing that Partner brought back a lot of memories. . I used to run the 60-70 CC Partners in Maine. They were great saws in the winter. Vapor lockin @#$%&*-+?/;:'"!&%$#@ in the summer. They were the first saws I ever saw with heated handle bars. And had good anti vibe. . They were good strong saws


----------



## tramp bushler

bitzer said:


> Tramp-I'd call this a soft dutch. Multiple kerfs. A regular or just a plain ole dutchman is one kerf. I stole the soft dutch from Jack aka hotsaws101 on youtube. So that's from your neck of the woods.
> 
> View attachment 295038



With these I stop the cuts in steps of 4-8" What that does is keeps the tree moving as it continues to sit down onto the next step. It's best to keep the tree moving once it starts. . Up here anyway. 
That's why I use siszwheels . 

For those new to siszwheel swing cuts. They aren't really a free lunch. . They can and do pull part of the stump and roots. So once things are set up and moving you gotta get outa Dodge right now. 

T.C. a full wrap handle really helps safe accurate falling. ESPECIALLY on steep ground. Honestly its very important . Half wrap will get you by on flat ground. But when you can only safely be on 1 side of the tree. You need to be able to use the bottom of the bar for most of your cuts, 95% .


----------



## RandyMac

Wet sawing.

Falling Old Growth Redwood - YouTube


----------



## treeslayer2003

tramp bushler said:


> With these I stop the cuts in steps of 4-8" What that does is keeps the tree moving as it continues to sit down onto the next step. It's best to keep the tree moving once it starts. . Up here anyway.
> That's why I use siszwheels .
> 
> For those new to siszwheel swing cuts. They aren't really a free lunch. . They can and do pull part of the stump and roots. So once things are set up and moving you gotta get outa Dodge right now.
> 
> T.C. a full wrap handle really helps safe accurate falling. ESPECIALLY on steep ground. Honestly its very important . Half wrap will get you by on flat ground. But when you can only safely be on 1 side of the tree. You need to be able to use the bottom of the bar for most of your cuts, 95% .



yup,i just got a three quarter wrap 461. its different but certainly better for turning saw over.
had to order from out west tho.


----------



## jrcat

Awesome video Randy. I think I am going to order a 3/4 wrap for my 372.


----------



## tramp bushler

Getting pissed on by a tree is pretty common when falling on the coast.


----------



## tramp bushler

jrcat said:


> Awesome video Randy. I think I am going to order a 3/4 wrap for my 372.



The Weber is the best wrap for the Stihl. I haven't seen one for the 372 yet. I prefer the full wrap to the 3/4 wrap. Safer/ better. I like the Husky factory full wrap.


----------



## treeslayer2003

tramp bushler said:


> Getting pissed on by a tree is pretty common when falling on the coast.



yea, here too. mostly red oak and sweet gum


first wrap ever for me, just don't see um here. ordered this one from west coast.


----------



## twochains

treeslayer, can you put up a pic of your wrap handle?


----------



## treeslayer2003

twochains said:


> treeslayer, can you put up a pic of your wrap handle?



i'm on it


----------



## treeslayer2003

View attachment 295222
View attachment 295223

ask, and ye shall receive


----------



## twochains

Oh Hell yeah!! That's what I need! Where did ya find it? Did you say that is a 3/4 wrap? Thanks for the pic!


----------



## treeslayer2003

twochains said:


> Oh Hell yeah!! That's what I need! Where did ya find it? Did you say that is a 3/4 wrap? Thanks for the pic!



my log buyer, he's a dealer also. he didn't even know about the r saws, I learned that here. 

when you order, tell them you want a r and tell um you want the wide tip bar, you'll like it more.
they are a different part no. I swear they oil better mo
yea a 3/4 wrap


----------



## jrcat

I need me one of those.........:msp_mellow:


----------



## Trx250r180

i really like the newer 3/4 wrap on the 460-461 new models ,its a little bigger than the early handles ,i run them on my 044 and 440 also ,has a full wrap feel to it ,rh side is a little longer now over the old ones


----------



## twochains

An "R" saw??? :msp_confused:


----------



## treeslayer2003

twochains said:


> An "R" saw??? :msp_confused:



R models have; 3/4 handle, large clutch cover, large dogs[spikes], high volume oiler.

461r, 660r..... etc.


----------



## tramp bushler

See if I can post a link to Weber Custom Weber Customs Inc - Testimonials 


Hey, I think I did it


----------



## jrcat

Nice I see your testimonial right off the bat lol. Those look really good quality. I looked at baileys and theirs is the same price and not as well built.


----------



## twochains

tramp bushler said:


> See if I can post a link to Weber Custom Weber Customs Inc - Testimonials
> 
> 
> Hey, I think I did it



Nice! Thanks! 

Hey I sent you a pm


----------



## twochains

treeslayer2003 said:


> R models have; 3/4 handle, large clutch cover, large dogs[spikes], high volume oiler.
> 
> 461r, 660r..... etc.



How much is the R option? I just today priced a 660 for $1,200


----------



## Trx250r180

if look at rh side of a 461 there's more room than the older 440 handlebar View attachment 295230
View attachment 295231
View attachment 295232
the dogs were made by nate off this site ,we sent a bunch of emails back and fourth and got this final product measuring off my saw


----------



## twochains

trx250r180 said:


> if look at rh side of a 461 there's more room than the older 440 handlebar View attachment 295230
> View attachment 295231
> View attachment 295232
> the dogs were made by nate off this site ,we sent a bunch of emails back and fourth and got this final product measuring off my saw



Nice! 

Hey, I been meaning to ask you about your profile name...are you a proud owner of one of the finest quads ever made?


----------



## tramp bushler

The Max flow filter kit helps too. Dual port the muffler and it'll be nice and rambunctious. . But. For just good safe falling just a wrap handle and a better set of dogs is what I would recommend. 
The dogs really help with the face cuts. Actually, just the inner dog is about all u need.


----------



## Trx250r180

here's the early handle ,kind where foam goes to end of bar ,has a lot smaller feel to it View attachment 295239
View attachment 295240
View attachment 295241


----------



## Trx250r180

twochains said:


> Nice!
> 
> Hey, I been meaning to ask you about your profile name...are you a proud owner of one of the finest quads ever made?



retired from racing a few years ago ,iv'e had the user name a long time and just kept it ,last 450 bikes are for sale right now ,2005 was last year on a 250r


----------



## treeslayer2003

twochains said:


> How much is the R option? I just today priced a 660 for $1,200



that's a good price, think he said list was like 1050 or1100 I get disct, 980. most dealers noc off 10% or so for com. like I say theres none here took almost 2 weeks to get, he had some trouble locating I guess.


----------



## tramp bushler

twochains said:


> Nice! Thanks!
> 
> Hey I sent you a pm



Personally, unless your going to constantly in timber over 32" on the stump I'de go with the 461 R. I've fell millions of feet of big timber with saws under 80 CC. . 

When I ran a 441 for 1 summer I really liked the front handle better than the standard 044-460 factory wrap.
The 461 R looks like the 441 R handle.


----------



## treeslayer2003

tramp bushler said:


> Personally, unless your going to constantly in timber over 32" on the stump I'de go with the 461 R. I've fell millions of feet of big timber with saws under 80 CC. .
> 
> When I ran a 441 for 1 summer I really liked the front handle better than the standard 044-460 factory wrap.
> The 461 R looks like the 441 R handle.



I really like the 1128 saws, I have a 660 for when get in real big or harder than av. oak. I gotta say tho this one pulls a 28 almost as good. how ever if I had a lot of big hard trees i'd go to the 660. mines tired thinkin of sending it to some one for porting


----------



## Trx250r180

tramp bushler said:


> Personally, unless your going to constantly in timber over 32" on the stump I'de go with the 461 R. I've fell millions of feet of big timber with saws under 80 CC. .
> 
> When I ran a 441 for 1 summer I really liked the front handle better than the standard 044-460 factory wrap.
> The 461 R looks like the 441 R handle.



there is noticeable more room in the new handles with gloves on ,they are similar to the 441 bars in size ,iv'e converted my older saws to the newer handles ,much better feel falling and limbing


----------



## bustedup

treeslayer2003 said:


> I really like the 1128 saws, I have a 660 for when get in real big or harder than av. oak. I gotta say tho this one pulls a 28 almost as good. how ever if I had a lot of big hard trees i'd go to the 660. mines tired thinkin of sending it to some one for porting



Get an ld 2100/01 they were/are great saws and will go thru anything


----------



## treeslayer2003

bustedup said:


> Get an ld 2100/01 they were/are great saws and will go thru anything



yes they were, as were 181,288,394. I just hav'nt had any luck with the newer huskys.


----------



## bustedup

treeslayer2003 said:


> yes they were, as were 181,288,394. I just hav'nt had any luck with the newer huskys.



I sold all my saws (needed the money) but I kept my 288, 2100/1 and my jred 670 I couldn't part with them to many memories ......and good saws


----------



## treeslayer2003

bustedup said:


> I sold all my saws (needed the money) but I kept my 288, 2100/1 and my jred 670 I couldn't part with them to many memories ......and good saws



gotcha, i'm sentamentle too, can't give up my first 044, its from about '87


----------



## bitzer

tramp bushler said:


> With these I stop the cuts in steps of 4-8" What that does is keeps the tree moving as it continues to sit down onto the next step. It's best to keep the tree moving once it starts. . Up here anyway.
> That's why I use siszwheels .



They are stepped Glen. The picture fades out there though. Tough to see. What do you call it then when you use multiple kerfs like that? Just so we are on the same page in the future. You are absolutely right about sizwheels are not a free ride. In some hardwoods they tend to break off before you really get em to do what you want.


----------



## Eccentric

trx250r180 said:


> retired from racing a few years ago ,iv'e had the user name a long time and just kept it ,last 450 bikes are for sale right now ,2005 was last year on a 250r



I thought 1991 was the last year of the TRX250R and 2005 was the last year of the TRX400EX. I still miss my 1986 250R...

I'd also like to see Weber full wraps for the 272XP, 288XP, and 2100/2101. Wishful thinking. I'll have to 'live with' the stockers...


----------



## bustedup

Eccentric said:


> I thought 1991 was the last year of the TRX250R and 2005 was the last year of the TRX400EX. I still miss my 1986 250R...
> 
> I'd also like to see Weber full wraps for the 272XP, 288XP, and 2100/2101. Wishful thinking. I'll have to 'live with' the stockers...



Full wraps for the 2100/1 aren't that hard t get and they pretty reasonable as is the clutch side falling dawg. The "newer" front mount (spring versus rubber) is better on the 288 and 2100/1 for pulling bigger bars imo


----------



## roberte

twochains said:


> Oh Hell yeah!! That's what I need! Where did ya find it? Did you say that is a 3/4 wrap? Thanks for the pic!



once you go full wrap you wont go back. might even ask yourself why you didn't before


----------



## roberte

twochains said:


> How much is the R option? I just today priced a 660 for $1,200



I got my 660 for that amount, with the wrap. But the wrap is also standard issue in these parts


----------



## tramp bushler

bitzer said:


> They are stepped Glen. The picture fades out there though. Tough to see. What do you call it then when you use multiple kerfs like that? Just so we are on the same page in the future. You are absolutely right about sizwheels are not a free ride. In some hardwoods they tend to break off before you really get em to do what you want.



That's what I always called a step Dutchman. Because of the steps. . I checked out hotsaw 101 s vid. It's a trick goin back into a kerf Dutchman and nipping out a bit more to get things rolling. 

I just never found that putting a chunk in the face was very accurate. I would use it when I couldn't get much else happening and I wanted to bring the tree around as much as I could but needed to be out of Dodge when it got there.


----------



## bustedup

tramp bushler said:


> That's what I always called a step Dutchman. Because of the steps. . I checked out hotsaw 101 s vid. It's a trick goin back into a kerf Dutchman and nipping out a bit more to get things rolling.
> 
> I just never found that putting a chunk in the face was very accurate. I would use it when I couldn't get much else happening and I wanted to bring the tree around as much as I could but needed to be out of Dodge when it got there.



He has got 3 vids showing soft dutch I'm sure you seen them he is good very skilled there is one that shows the stump better than the others. In one he's so good at what he's doing the saw pinches slightly but he waited as he knew it would and when the stick moved he was back on it now that really is a guy that knows the what's and where's just my opinion tho


----------



## jrcat

Can someone post the link to those vids?


----------



## bustedup

jrcat said:


> Can someone post the link to those vids?



you tube and search hotsaws101 you'll get them there


----------



## roberte

jrcat said:


> Can someone post the link to those vids?



just go to hotsaws101 on you tube. you could spend the next hour just checking it out and not see them all

hes also under dangercat


----------



## strangersfaces

jrcat said:


> Can someone post the link to those vids?



Here is one to get started with...

[youtube]tbN1sKN7IlI[/youtube]​


----------



## bustedup

jrcat wait til a wet day as you will be watchin em for a while lol and you gotta watch close to see the subtleties like the saw pinching and the reason for the axe in the back cut .......


----------



## strangersfaces

"Ultra" Soft Dutchman... Hotsaws101

[youtube]uvVY5jaY9jg[/youtube]​


----------



## Hddnis

Time to run.







Mr. HE


----------



## tramp bushler

bustedup;432156 In one he's so good at what he's doing the saw pinches slightly but he waited as he knew it would and when the stick moved he was back on it now that really is a guy that knows the what's and where's just my opinion tho[/QUOTE said:


> If you don't know that your not ready to cut on the coast up here
> .
> Problem is you can't learn untilyour in the chips.
> .


----------



## Metals406

Hddnis said:


> Time to run.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. HE



Running like you stole that saw!


----------



## Metals406

strangersfaces said:


> Here is one to get started with...
> 
> [youtube]tbN1sKN7IlI[/youtube]​



Soooo. . . Y'all know Jack is a Montanan right?

:msp_thumbsup:


----------



## Hddnis

Metals406 said:


> Running like you stole that saw!




I kinda did steal it.

I got it from a guy that smashed it with a tree. Six hours welding and shaping magnesium, a new tank, and new full wrap handle and she runs like the low hour saw she is. 

Still gonna' port her.:msp_sneaky:

Oh, it's a Dolmar 9010.



Mr. HE


----------



## Metals406

Hddnis said:


> I kinda did steal it.
> 
> I got it from a guy that smashed it with a tree. Six hours welding and shaping magnesium, a new tank, and new full wrap handle and she runs like the low hour saw she is.
> 
> Still gonna' port her.:msp_sneaky:
> 
> Oh, it's a Dolmar 9010.
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. HE



Well, I wouldn't say 'steal' with 6 hours of TIG'n mag. :msp_scared:

:msp_biggrin:

Still sounds like a purdy good deal fer such a large PH!


----------



## Eccentric

bustedup said:


> Full wraps for the 2100/1 aren't that hard t get and they pretty reasonable as is the clutch side falling dawg. The "newer" front mount (spring versus rubber) is better on the 288 and 2100/1 for pulling bigger bars imo



I have OEM full wraps for my 288 and 2100. They're a bit rough, but serviceable. Do you mean the spring mount in front of the case.....attached to the dawg? My saws have those.


----------



## Hddnis

Metals406 said:


> Well, I wouldn't say 'steal' with 6 hours of TIG'n mag. :msp_scared:
> 
> :msp_biggrin:
> 
> Still sounds like a purdy good deal fer such a large PH!




Less than an hour with with the tig, took a while because I had to build it up slow to manage heat. Rest of the time was cutting to shape since I had to redo the internal threads for the vibe mount right below the oil tank cap. It is a single thread that works out to about 6TPI and the hole needed one full circle of it. I cut it all freehand with a die grinder and dremel. It ain't perfect, but it holds the vibe mount thingy.

All told I'm less than $200.00 in parts and maybe 8 hours total time over several evenings, so I did alright. Sure a hoot running the 36" bar on it in pine and I needed every inch of it for the tree in the pic.




Mr. HE


----------



## bustedup

Eccentric said:


> I have OEM full wraps for my 288 and 2100. They're a bit rough, but serviceable. Do you mean the spring mount in front of the case.....attached to the dawg? My saws have those.



Yeah thats what I meant


----------



## bitzer

Well machine is still down and saws number 1 &2 are down. Not in the mood to run the back up, back up saw so I'm gettin stuff done around the house that I've been putting off for weeks. Like the foot of grass in the yard. 


Anyway, Just a little reminder to keep yer eyes open when you are trying crazy crap. 98% of the time when I drive a tree it goes well. The backcut on the maple was the throttle to the handle kind and I got the hell away from the stump quick and saw the kerf on that hickory open and then close as I looked over my shoulder. I really booked it then! She had enough backward momentum to chair. It was leanin hard at the maple and I was probably askin to much of it. 







My old wedge belt was gettin tired.





The stump from my soft dutch video. Just to give a better view of what went on. 





View attachment 295319

View attachment 295320

View attachment 295321


----------



## tramp bushler

Well. I'm glad you have a foot of grass. We have 3" of snow and its sposed to snow all day.


----------



## Metals406

tramp bushler said:


> Well. I'm glad you have a foot of grass. We have 3" of snow and its sposed to snow all day.



Yuck!!!!


:msp_thumbdn:


----------



## tramp bushler

Ya, no kidding. Don't get me wrong, I love winter. But this isn't winter. Its just snow .


----------



## tramp bushler

Hey Bitz ; I like your wedge belt. I see the kerf steps in that stump now. Looks good. I've got a 390 Husky on the way. I'm scheduled to fly to Southeast on Tuesday to cut an export blowdown patch for a friend. 36" reduced weight bar. 3/8 . 63 . Semi skip chisel 8 tooth. Getting a regular 36" Oregon also with it to have as a spare bar. . Really looking forward to it. . The unit will be shovel logged and it runs 3-4 layers deep so the Tramp will need to be on top of his game to live thru this one.


----------



## jrcat

tramp bushler said:


> Hey Bitz ; I like your wedge belt. I see the kerf steps in that stump now. Looks good. I've got a 390 Husky on the way. I'm scheduled to fly to Southeast on Tuesday to cut an export blowdown patch for a friend. 36" reduced weight bar. 3/8 . 63 . Semi skip chisel 8 tooth. Getting a regular 36" Oregon also with it to have as a spare bar. . Really looking forward to it. . The unit will be shovel logged and it runs 3-4 layers deep so the Tramp will need to be on top of his game to live thru this one.



I did some blow down here 2 years ago. It was tornado damage and my god was it a MESS!. About 4 trees into it I topped one off and that thing stood right back up on me. It was hard to judge them as to where the weight was. Im sure you have far more experience than I do and dont need to hear this but BE CAREFUL


----------



## RandyMac

I spent six weeks bucking downed OG DF off a slide, I rate that right next to burnt timber. The logs wandered some, loads of binding cuts, the rootwads were insane.


----------



## paccity

tramp bushler said:


> Hey Bitz ; I like your wedge belt. I see the kerf steps in that stump now. Looks good. I've got a 390 Husky on the way. I'm scheduled to fly to Southeast on Tuesday to cut an export blowdown patch for a friend. 36" reduced weight bar. 3/8 . 63 . Semi skip chisel 8 tooth. Getting a regular 36" Oregon also with it to have as a spare bar. . Really looking forward to it. . The unit will be shovel logged and it runs 3-4 layers deep so the Tramp will need to be on top of his game to live thru this one.



tramp. who ya cutting for se? out of petersberg?


----------



## bitzer

tramp bushler said:


> Hey Bitz ; I like your wedge belt. I see the kerf steps in that stump now. Looks good. I've got a 390 Husky on the way. I'm scheduled to fly to Southeast on Tuesday to cut an export blowdown patch for a friend. 36" reduced weight bar. 3/8 . 63 . Semi skip chisel 8 tooth. Getting a regular 36" Oregon also with it to have as a spare bar. . Really looking forward to it. . The unit will be shovel logged and it runs 3-4 layers deep so the Tramp will need to be on top of his game to live thru this one.



Tramp make sure you get the jungle muffler on that thing and the harder av springs! The stock av springs suck. The 390 is a great saw once you open er up a bit. For some reason I wasn't too thrilled with the 8 tooth on it. I am cutting hardwood though. Sounds like fun!

Yeah the ax holder is meant for a cordless drill. Just made it work for my liking. That strap will be handy to keep it on the belt when I'm fighting the brush. Just a carpenter pouch for the wedges. I'm a cheapskate that way, but I can also pack a spare chain in there. Its got 2 12"s and a 10" in it. Thanks!


----------



## bitzer

Here is a pic from TwoChains! Just helpin the man get it live from his phone.







View attachment 295409


----------



## twochains

Thanks man!! :msp_thumbup:


----------



## treeslayer2003

bitzer said:


> Here is a pic from TwoChains! Just helpin the man get it live from his phone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 295409



pretty work tc, that is a nice red oak. clean for how far?


----------



## twochains

(3) 9'4 logs...got a slick single out of the top.


----------



## treeslayer2003

twochains said:


> (3) 9'4 logs...got a slick single out of the top.



bring it here. give ya a franklin for it. lol


----------



## tramp bushler

paccity said:


> tramp. who ya c
> utting for se? out of petersberg?



No. Out of Hoonah.
Same guy I've done some cutting for in the past.

Bitzer ; Ordered it from Madsen's so hopefully it has the right mounts on it 
At different times I've tried the 7 tooth sprocket on 288 s. They were OK with a 42" bar but for a 32 or 36 I like the 8 tooth best. Lots of limbs on Sitka spruce and Western Hemlock. I run 8 tooth on the 372W and 460 Stihl with 32" bars. 
Just seems to vibrate less. And gives better chain speed. If I was running full comp I'de probably go with the 7 tooth. . I've seen your saw cut hardwood so it looks like you have the right combo.


----------



## Samlock

Uphill falling - what a wonderful way to get a person finished up.


----------



## tramp bushler

Ya, ya want to know you can get well away from the stump when they rock over the hill and the butt goes flying up in the air.


----------



## Samlock

A truly ugly birch again. The tiny brush held it from rolling on the road.


----------



## tramp bushler

Samlock said:


> A truly ugly birch again. The tiny brush held it from rolling on the road.
> 
> [url]https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-egQiNA6FKXk/UZTVzKJGlII/AAAAAAAABXo/[/url]
> YOYevBg3vww/w735-h551-no/IMG_5683.JPG




Nice turn of the phrase. :msp_rolleyes:

Are you sure you have big enough dog on that saw. Sorry. I'm joking. Do you like them or do you find that they bind the chain??


----------



## Samlock

tramp bushler said:


> Nice turn of the phrase. :msp_rolleyes:
> 
> Are you sure you have big enough dog on that saw. Sorry. I'm joking. Do you like them or do you find that they bind the chain??



That dog is crazy. I have it on loan. It does bind when cutting conventional face. And it loses few inches of that short bar. But it helps me leveling the back cut. Which I have had a trouble with lately. So, yes, I like it. But I don't think I'll keep it.


----------



## tramp bushler

I used to run the Pro Safety 4 point dogs on my 044s + 064s . . They were just right. They stuck out forward just as far. But did not stick down as far below the bottom of the bar. As when I'm on the coast I really need good dogs on my saw I'vedone a lot of testing and have come to the conclusion that how far below the bottom of the bar the dog ends is the single biggest factor in whetherthe chain will bind and stop. 
About 1.5" is ideal IMO+E. I would have to get a tape out to find out how many centimeters that is. 
Those on your saw look like they are about 3" below. 
I've been on springboards 25' up and have yet to find any good reason to have dogs that stick way down below the bar. And as anyone can tell that has spent much time up on boards, all you want that saw to do is cut. Not hang up. 
I suppose they are useful when bucking a big log over a draw and you have to lay down to get the most reach. But that isn't all that often and regular falling dogs work fine.


----------



## Samlock

Glen, all good information. The guy I borrowed the dogs from used them cutting ice with a 32'' bar. He says they work great, so I doubt he'd be pleased if I tinkered them a bit. I like the lever the bigger dogs provide, so I guess I need to get my own piece. Not available in Europe, but we do have metal shops around.


----------



## roberte

tramp bushler said:


> I used to run the Pro Safety 4 point dogs on my 044s + 064s . . They were just right. They stuck out forward just as far. But did not stick down as far below the bottom of the bar. As when I'm on the coast I really need good dogs on my saw I'vedone a lot of testing and have come to the conclusion that how far below the bottom of the bar the dog ends is the single biggest factor in whetherthe chain will bind and stop.
> About 1.5" is ideal IMO+E. I would have to get a tape out to find out how many centimeters that is.
> Those on your saw look like they are about 3" below.
> I've been on springboards 25' up and have yet to find any good reason to have dogs that stick way down below the bar. And as anyone can tell that has spent much time up on boards, all you want that saw to do is cut. Not hang up.
> I suppose they are useful when bucking a big log over a draw and you have to lay down to get the most reach. But that isn't all that often and regular falling dogs work fine.



That short side cover may make the distance appear longer, however that still hangs down there quite a bit.


----------



## tramp bushler

Mobile Photobucket

Still not doing it.


----------



## treeslayer2003

tramp, it never occurred to me the dogs could make the chain bind. lately noticed chain will bind, 
stop the chain , while cutting out the face notch. I blamed the chain, or me for takin the dg down to far. now you got me thinkin. got the factory large in &out dogs. any one expierement with shortenin um up?


----------



## Trx250r180

i think pro saftey made those dogs to fit their full wrap handlebar is why they hang so low View attachment 295736


don't mind the extra sight lines ,those were a joke in a older thread ,as long as it fell in those sights were good :msp_biggrin:

i ended up going back to factory 3/4 wrap and 4 points on that saw ,5 points were too grabby on leverage for me


----------



## tramp bushler

Try taking the outer dog off first.


----------



## treeslayer2003

tramp bushler said:


> Try taking the outer dog off first.



thanks tramp, was thikin of doin that. seems counter intuitive, but its worth a try.


----------



## Sport Faller

trx250r180 said:


> i think pro saftey made those dogs to fit their full wrap handlebar is why they hang so low View attachment 295736
> 
> 
> don't mind the extra sight lines ,those were a joke in a older thread ,as long as it fell in those sights were good :msp_biggrin:
> 
> i ended up going back to factory 3/4 wrap and 4 points on that saw ,5 points were too grabby on leverage for me



hahahaha, yep, she's well within the reccomended sight lines. BTW what did you do with the body of the Pepsi guy who's truck you jacked LOL


----------



## Trx250r180

Sport Faller said:


> hahahaha, yep, she's well within the reccomended sight lines. BTW what did you do with the body of the Pepsi guy who's truck you jacked LOL



that pepsi guy is ruining my body ,im starting to look like a pepsi bottle drinkin all that stuff


----------



## tramp bushler

trx250r180 said:


> that pepsi guy is ruining my body ,im starting to look like a pepsi bottle drinkin all that stuff




That pop will kill ya. It really is way bad for the bod and brain. . The 4 point dogs work perfect with the full wrap bars also


----------



## OlympicYJ

Sam,

Try Baileys. They sell the pro saftey 4pts. I would think they would ship to you. If not maybe one of our Cali members could box em up and ship em for ya... Just a thought.

Thinkin about gettin the old man a set of the 4pts for his 266 for fathers day. He only has the tiny factory inboard dog which sucks hind tit. If they don't fit his 266 then they should fit my 372 :msp_biggrin:

Wes


----------



## forestryworks

Here's some crappy and cobbled together iPhone video footage. No camera man gymnastics this time, so he managed to sneak in a color commentary. Thought I heard someone talking, but that damn wind... 

PPRI Elm - YouTube
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Q299cvFKrcw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


----------



## jrcat

Nice video ... but crump daddy ? lol


----------



## Gologit

Nothing wrong with that work. Now, get rid of that itty-bitty hatchet and get yourself a _real axe._ :msp_biggrin:


----------



## forestryworks

jrcat said:


> Nice video ... but crump daddy ? lol



A nickname, partially taken from my last name, born more than a year ago in a bar late one winter's night in North Idaho... Stuck ever since.


----------



## forestryworks

Gologit said:


> Nothing wrong with that work. Now, get rid of that itty-bitty hatchet and get yourself a _real axe._ :msp_biggrin:



Now Bob, it's got a 5lb head on it. Oughta count for something, lol. I never liked driving wedges with long-handled axes.


----------



## treeslayer2003

i'm prolly gonna get it for this but I use a sledge with half a handle. I don't like the long handle either


----------



## jrcat

I wont even mention what I use......lol Its made by estwing thats all I will say lol


----------



## treeslayer2003

jrcat said:


> I wont even mention what I use......lol Its made by estwing thats all I will say lol



i'm gonna assume its a hatchet, not a claw hammer. :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## jrcat

treeslayer2003 said:


> i'm gonna assume its a hatchet, not a claw hammer. :hmm3grin2orange:



Yeah hatchet. Its light and can still drive a wedge and chisel out a pinched saw and be used as a pry bar lol.


----------



## RandyMac

Hatchets are good for killing panthers.


----------



## tramp bushler

Nice work Jameson. 90% of the time my falling ax is a 28 oz Vaughn Rig Builders ax. . If I need something heavier most of the time I cut a mallet . If I'm in big wood I pack in my 5£ rafting ax with a 36" handle. And a bunch more wedges. :msp_smile:


----------



## Metals406

Samlock said:


> That dog is crazy. I have it on loan. It does bind when cutting conventional face. And it loses few inches of that short bar. But it helps me leveling the back cut. Which I have had a trouble with lately. So, yes, I like it. But I don't think I'll keep it.



I think you'd like the 4-point dogs I make. :msp_biggrin:


----------



## forestryworks

Metals406 said:


> I think you'd like the 4-point dogs I make. :msp_biggrin:



The ones you set aside for me, I say give them to Samlock. If he wants them.


----------



## Metals406

forestryworks said:


> The ones you set aside for me, I say give them to Samlock. If he wants them.



You are a gentleman. . . But I can still hook you both up.

Sorry I missed yer call earlier -- been a cray-zay week -- and will continue thru this weekend.


----------



## Metals406

forestryworks said:


> A nickname, partially taken from my last name, born more than a year ago in a bar late one winter's night in North Idaho... Stuck ever since.



I'm partial to "Crumplestiltskin" and "Suck'ah Fish". :msp_biggrin:


----------



## Sport Faller

Metals406 said:


> I'm partial to "Crumplestiltskin" and "Suck'ah Fish". :msp_biggrin:



Lol. Crumpdizzle


----------



## Metals406

Don't die of boredom!! LOL Just enjoy the perty Montucky scenery.

Had to cut these trees off in the dirt, which sucks fer us tall fellas.

I cut a few more today, and have more to do before next week.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/cQ6ENORM-w4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


----------



## tramp bushler

Metals406 said:


> I think you'd like the 4-point dogs I make. :msp_biggrin:




Hey there good buddy!!! What do these look like. Pics pics pics. Price price price?????????? Why u been keeping this a secret??


----------



## Metals406

tramp bushler said:


> Hey there good buddy!!! What do these look like. Pics pics pics. Price price price?????????? Why u been keeping this a secret??



LOL, no secret. . . I started just making some for myself -- then asked some guys if'n they wanted some. http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/233219-5.htm#post4258632

Now I'm fix'n to template as many saws as I'm able, and offer them for sale. No fancy 5-points or 12-point dogs.

Just 4-points.

Although, some of my designs are perty wicked looking. :msp_w00t:


----------



## twochains

Metals406 said:


> LOL, no secret. . . I started just making some for myself -- then asked some guys if'n they wanted some. http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/233219-5.htm#post4258632
> 
> Now I'm fix'n to template as many saws as I'm able, and offer them for sale. No fancy 5-points or 12-point dogs.
> 
> Just 4-points.
> 
> Although, some of my designs are perty wicked looking. :msp_w00t:



Yes, yes they are! Super nice vid and righteous sounding saw!! I wish mine sounded that good!


----------



## Trx250r180

tramp bushler said:


> Hey there good buddy!!! What do these look like. Pics pics pics. Price price price?????????? Why u been keeping this a secret??



here's the ones Nate made me i haven't seen 4 points on any other 461 saws yet View attachment 295874
View attachment 295875


----------



## Trx250r180

RandyMac said:


> Hatchets are good for killing panthers.



Too funny ,Jon1212 wears black panther cologne ,now i know where the bits of panther come from in the cologne


----------



## bustedup

RandyMac said:


> Hatchets are good for killing panthers.



and campbell's eh???


----------



## bustedup

jrcat said:


> Yeah hatchet. Its light and can still drive a wedge and chisel out a pinched saw and be used as a pry bar lol.



Ya is aware that using it as a pry bar will negate the warranty lol


----------



## RandyMac

bustedup said:


> and campbell's eh???



aye


----------



## Samlock

Metals406 said:


> I think you'd like the 4-point dogs I make. :msp_biggrin:



Browsing it right now, Nate.


----------



## tramp bushler

RandyMac said:


> Hatchets are good for killing panthers.




. In the camps of southeast it was pretty easy to tell the old growth fallers from the slash and dash modern bushlers. Other than their comments in the crummy the first evening. ( usually they had a dripping wet, semi bewildered cast to their face. And they all had the same question, "what do ya do with All the limbs " ) 
They All kept their 36" or longer handled 5 or 6 lb rafting ax with them from tree to tree. 
They had their timber all laid out nice and pretty but most of them had left 50-100 $ of hemlock snag stobs left standing. . . 
I always felt bad for them when they finished doing their scale. . They were exhausted And depressed ! . . But, once they figured out about just limbin a tape trail. Leaving plenty of pig ears and fallin their snag stobs.leaving their big falling saw in the saw shop they would at least make enough money to tramp.. But, they could never get away from packing their long handled ax from tree to tree.


----------



## RandyMac

Yeah, saw a bunch of limby bastards, Abies and Cedars, 2nd growth Redwoods have lots of whippy sticks.


----------



## tramp bushler

RandyMac said:


> Yeah, saw a bunch of limby bastards, Abies and Cedars, 2nd growth Redwoods have lots of whippy sticks.



What's an Abie??


----------



## RandyMac

tramp bushler said:


> What's an Abie??



true firs, red, white, noble.....as opposed to Doug Fir, which is not a fir.


----------



## Trx250r180

RandyMac said:


> true firs, red, white, noble.....as opposed to Doug Fir, which is not a fir.



whats a doug fir ? spruce family ?


----------



## Metals406

trx250r180 said:


> whats a doug fir ? spruce family ?



It's an evergreen.


----------



## bustedup

Spruce I think


----------



## bustedup

sorry my mistake it a member of the pine family .......hence oregon pine lol


----------



## DavdH

psudotsuga, sorta means, like but not, hemlock,


----------



## Metals406

bustedup said:


> sorry my mistake it a member of the pine family .......hence oregon pine lol



Yup! Hence you can eat the cambium and make tea and other vittles from the leaves.

"Pine needle tea" can be made from the DF. 

Check out DF needles -- against LP Pine needles.

*DF*






*LP Pine*


----------



## bustedup

Metals406 said:


> Yup! Hence you can eat the cambium and make tea and other vittles from the leaves.
> 
> "Pine needle tea" can be made from the DF.
> 
> Check out DF needles -- against LP Pine needles.
> 
> *DF*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *LP Pine*



Named after a scot lol David Douglas and an scots doc too lol


----------



## Metals406

I'm glad the old man named it the way he did. . . Gives us something to talk about!


----------



## bustedup

Lol guess it had something to do with who actually found it and who started cultivating it ......politics me guesses lol


----------



## bustedup

I dunno why it called Doug-fir ......guess that needs a botanist/history person ......or google lol


----------



## tramp bushler

[Qwheres one of them college edjucates when ya need one???????? 

Isn't it psudatosis menziesy. = false pine.

???????????? 
Come on you guys And Girls. Put that high dollar edacation to work for the common good!! :msp_wink:


----------



## RandyMac

Pseudotsuga menziesii named for Archibald Menzies, a Scottish physician and rival naturalist David Douglas.


----------



## bustedup

originally found in Canada


----------



## tramp bushler

OK, my breaks over. Gotta go back to taking the starter out of my Ford.


----------



## twochains

RandyMac said:


> Pseudotsuga menziesii named for Archibald Menzies, a Scottish physician and rival naturalist David Douglas.



Wow! So...can you pronounce those first two words? :msp_w00t:


----------



## RVALUE

This is a case where good information lets us see our past bad information. When I was in Idaho, I was TOLD that doug fir, was "red fir". So all these years have I been mis-informed? Wonder which we were cutting?

Thanks, for the good thread, and being easy on my ignorant self.


Tarry on.


----------



## Sport Faller

CRUMPLER!.....Crumpler! Dammit, where is that guy when we need some of that Latin tree talk


----------



## forestryworks

RandyMac said:


> Pseudotsuga menziesii named for Archibald Menzies, a Scottish physician and rival naturalist David Douglas.



The MacKendrick got it right, mostly - scientific names are always written in _italics_ and Douglas-fir is always written with a hyphen, to indicate its false fir status.

The tree's common name honors David Douglas, but the scientific name, as the MacKendrick noted, honors Archibald Menzies, who discovered it on Vancouver Island.



RVALUE said:


> This is a case where good information lets us see our past bad information. When I was in Idaho, I was TOLD that doug fir, was "red fir". So all these years have I been mis-informed? Wonder which we were cutting?



It's fine to call it red fir in Idaho, as most everyone does. However, if you go to California, Red Fir is a true fir (_Abies magnifica_).

The problem with common names for plants is any two people can be talking about two totally different species using the same name (Pin Oak is a widely and incorrectly used name for a lot of oaks), which is why it helps to learn the scientific names.


----------



## paccity

douglas-fir, is the name of entire genus of trees that contains six species- two native to north america and four to eastern asia. Pseudotsuga which means false hemlock. the hyphen in the common name let's us know douglas-fir is not a member of the abies genus. only one is native to the west coast. and it's the state tree of orygun. :msp_wink:


----------



## paccity

and i have a fondness of the smell of fresh cut doug.:msp_wink:


----------



## HuskStihl

TwoChains! Clean out u'r damn inbox! Inboxicus #######iticus


----------



## madhatte

forestryworks said:


> The problem with common names for plants is any two people can be talking about two totally different species using the same name (Pin Oak is a widely and incorrectly used name for a lot of oaks), which is why it helps to learn the scientific names.



Specifically -- the reason we use Latin for scientific names is because it is a dead language and its meaning will not change through use. English? A mutant hell-bent on confusion. Example? TXTSPEAK


----------



## Rounder

paccity said:


> and i have a fondness of the smell of fresh cut doug.:msp_wink:



Me too...and it always seems to lay side hill a bit...makes for fun swinging when whole treeing and cake log cutting.


----------



## OlympicYJ

Here's a good link for dendrology stuff. Unless you have all the spendy arse books lol This is honestly much handier.

Pseudotsuga menziesii Fact Sheet

And lets not forget bigcone DF or _Pseudotsuga macrocarpa _That's the variation found in Idaho referred to as red fir.


----------



## northmanlogging

tramp bushler said:


> OK, my breaks over. Gotta go back to taking the starter out of my Ford.



Probably a day late and a dollar short... get like an 18" extension for that top bolt on yer starter and go from in front of the cross member, gives you a bit more wiggle room... I've done 3 on my diesel in the last 2 years...


----------



## RandyMac

paccity said:


> and i have a fondness of the smell of fresh cut doug.:msp_wink:



Yeah, me too and sometimes you tie into a well seasoned DF snag that smells great. Sugar pine smells good too.
We won't get into Hemlock and Abies.


----------



## tramp bushler

northmanlogging said:


> Probably a day late and a dollar short... get like an 18" extension for that top bolt on yer starter and go from in front of the cross member, gives you a bit more wiggle room... I've done 3 on my diesel in the last 2 years...




I just use the 2 bottom bolts. 
Took the starter in to Napa, they tested it and it was fine. So I bought a new battery put it all back together and absolutely no improvement. . . 

I have no idea what to do next. It still turns over like the batteryi almost dead. .


----------



## paccity

tramp bushler said:


> I just use the 2 bottom bolts.
> Took the starter in to Napa, they tested it and it was fine. So I bought a new battery put it all back together and absolutely no improvement. . .
> 
> I have no idea what to do next. It still turns over like the batteryi almost dead. .


check your ground at the block..


----------



## northmanlogging

Can they test it under load? Had the same problem with one of my three starters, worked fine on the ground wouldn't turn the engine over for squat, otherwise could be sketchy grounds... or a iffy batteries them ford die sells take allot to turn over... 

Ignore the stupid "high torque" mini starters... they maybe easy to put in but don't last long...:msp_angry:


----------



## Trx250r180

tramp bushler said:


> I just use the 2 bottom bolts.
> Took the starter in to Napa, they tested it and it was fine. So I bought a new battery put it all back together and absolutely no improvement. . .
> 
> I have no idea what to do next. It still turns over like the batteryi almost dead. .



Try a new ground cable to the engine,sometimes they look ok but low resistance and will turn over slow


----------



## tramp bushler

paccity said:


> check your ground at the block..




Both of them are tight


----------



## tramp bushler

northmanlogging said:


> Can they test it under load? Had the same problem with one of my three starters, worked fine on the ground wouldn't turn the engine over for squat, otherwise could be sketchy grounds... or a iffy batteries them ford die sells take allot to turn over...
> 
> Ignore the stupid "high torque" mini starters... they maybe easy to put in but don't last long...:msp_angry:



I think mine is one of those. I don't see how a starterthats any bigger could go in there. . By the way I HATE, absolutely HATE mechanicin . . Man do I hate it. And I suck at it.


----------



## tramp bushler

trx250r180 said:


> Try a new ground cable to the engine,sometimes they look ok but low resistance and will turn over slow





I guess I'll try that.


----------



## floyd

Solenoid?


It's called Red Fir by loggers because the heartwood turns red as it cures in the deck. Firs "there" are Grand, White or sub alpine if one is at higher elevations. Grand & white fir are often confused for each other.


----------



## Eccentric

Could be the solenoid. Seen the contacts inside the solenoid (on the starter) burnt/corroded before. That'll make it behave like described.

Could be one of the cables. I've seen cables have an internal break while still 'looking' fine. The strands will be broken at some point under the insulation. You can usually find the break by feel. I cut one open at a 'flexy' spot and found broken strands with corrosion at the break.

Also clean/sand the connections at each end of every cable.


----------



## 056 kid

tramp bushler said:


> Both of them are tight



Make sure your connections at the batt are good and shiny. Iv seen numerouse rigs with a "dead batterey" or some other bad part when it was just bad connections..
Look on the bright side, when I replace the starter in my ford,(86 fox body), I have to loosten the passenger side long tube completely, jack the motor up a few inches, remove the header, and then loosen the 2 bolts that hold the starter on... I have a gear reduction mini starter I need to put in, but I dread it too much....


----------



## tramp bushler

Eccentric said:


> Could be the solenoid. Seen the contacts inside the solenoid (on the starter) burnt/corroded before. That'll make it behave like described.
> 
> Could be one of the cables. I've seen cables have an internal break while still 'looking' fine. The strands will be broken at some point under the insulation. You can usually find the break by feel. I cut one open at a 'flexy' spot and found broken strands with corrosion at the break.
> 
> Also clean/sand the connections at each end of every cable.



OK. 
I feel like I've just received a sentence. But I do appreciate it. Very much.


----------



## Cfaller

If you have a multi-meter, check for a voltage drop of more then .5V between anything in the starting circuit. Both the positive and negative side. This will need to be done while cranking. Good luck.


----------



## Eccentric

tramp bushler said:


> OK.
> I feel like I've just received a sentence. But I do appreciate it. Very much.



You'll get it. Check all the connections first. Then the cables. Then go from there...

The main pos cable (connects to both batts) is expensive IIRC. Hopefully it's just the connections. You can also find a bad cable by trying to crank it over for several seconds, then feeling along the cables for a hot spot (don't get burned, and ABSOLUTELY remove your watch and any rings from your hands for safety). The cables most often seem to fail within a few inches of the battery post...


----------



## tramp bushler

I definetly fall in the production 
As opposed to maintenance category. 
Anyone need a ditch dug thru shot rock with a pick and shovel. I'll trade ya.


----------



## Trx250r180

if you have a GOOD set of jumper cables ,go from your battery to the block neg and pos of starter direct ,then jump sol with a screwdriver ,that will tell you if starters bad or cables


----------



## tramp bushler

Eccentric said:


> You'll get it. Check all the connections first. Then the cables. Then go from there...
> 
> The main pos cable (connects to both batts) is expensive IIRC. Hopefully it's just the connections. You can also find a bad cable by trying to crank it over for several seconds, then feeling along the cables for a hot spot (don't get burned, and ABSOLUTELY remove your watch and any rings from your hands for safety). The cables most often seem to fail within a few inches of the battery post...



The main positive cable terminal on the starboard side battery is cracked at the head of the bolt side. But. I cleaned it all nice and shiny and got it nice and tight.


----------



## Eccentric

tramp bushler said:


> I definetly fall in the production
> As opposed to maintenance category.
> Anyone need a ditch dug thru shot rock with a pick and shovel. I'll trade ya.



Gotta be a good mechanic nearby you that you could bribe with some  to help you out...



trx250r180 said:


> if you have a GOOD set of jumper cables ,go from your battery to the block neg and pos of starter direct ,then jump sol with a screwdriver ,that will tell you if starters bad or cables



I put a sizeable notch on a wrench doing that trick with my '86 diesel Ford. Lots of current coming from two big Interstates.


----------



## Eccentric

tramp bushler said:


> The main positive cable terminal on the starboard side battery is cracked at the head of the bolt side. But. I cleaned it all nice and shiny and got it nice and tight.



It's the terminal itself that's cracked? How does the cable running from that terminal look/feel?


----------



## bustedup

Just a thought but if the terminal is cracked it might not be putting out the proper voltage


----------



## tramp bushler

OK. I wish it had a 6V53 in it. I think it would be simpler . With an air starter.


----------



## tramp bushler

Eccentric said:


> It's the terminal itself that's cracked? How does the cable running from that terminal look/feel?



I dunno. Its in a black plastic flex protector sheath. . Its been cracked for quite a while but with all the moving it, cleaning and retightening it kinda stretched to the point of breaking yesterday


----------



## twochains

TB, I think that if your terminal is cracked...that is your problem. Had that happen on my truck once, thought it should work even cracked...but no go.


----------



## bitzer

Tramp I came home black with grease twice last week after putting my newly rebuilt fuel inj pump and a few other things back on the machine. Man I hate turnin wrenches too! Especially when the clock is tickin while losin money. 

Digital Voltmeter my man! That will answer a lot of questions with out ever takin a wrench to it. Checking for voltage/continuity saves a lot of time. I've always got one in the truck along with the rest of my traveling tool box. Otherwise, jumper wires are quick and dirty. ####ing electrical problems are a #####.


----------



## HuskStihl

Tramp and Bitz, I feel your frustration. I woke up early 'cause I had a lot of mowing to do, fired up the tractor, engaged the rear hydraulic control to put the wings down on my old Rhino flex wing mower. Loud crack. Got out and saw the cross in the driveshaft between the CV and the gearbox of the starboard side wing was busted. Unfortunately, it is asymmetric, and all locally (this morning) available options weren't. The good news, landowne moody ordered me one (80 bucks) to arrive thursday. The pastures will have to wait. I'm sorry to hear you are suffering down time


----------



## tramp bushler

So, I thot about the getting someone to help me. A good friend is a mechanic for the State. He had a couch that he just bought and needed to be moved. :msp_thumbup:
So we did the couch and he came and helped me. We replaced the cracked terminal with a new one. Cleaned and replaced the ground strap to the block.. checked for any broke/ damaged battery wires replaced the starter relay with a new one tested the existing other old battery on a battery load tester. It showed good. . I fired up my International dump truck, pulled it along side and put the jumpers to it. . Before we started all this it would turn over. Now all it does is make the relay/ solenoid click. 





And this was going on while wewere doing all this. 
I would say I am officially stumped. 
Oh and we tried cross parking the terminals on the starter. Nothin.


----------



## tramp bushler

Cross arking


----------



## bustedup

I don't wanna sound rude but there isn't some kinda black box comp thingy that may be needing reset? I had similar probs once and it turned out that it was the comp thingy. Just a thing that came to mind may not be anything


----------



## Driver625

Tramp, replace the other battery.


----------



## tramp bushler

My friend load tested it and it tested good. I'm betting that the one I replaced was good also. 
But here's a?? Does the diesel ford have a voltage regulator. Could that be doing this
That black box thingy is looking to be more like the culprit. Or the key switch.


----------



## northmanlogging

If you can jump it straight to the starter, you know safely... try that, if that fails or you can't/don't wanna, change the starter... they get old and the bearings and brushes get wore out making them hard to turn over, amplify that to the fords something like 32-1 compression...(don't remember exactly but its stupid high). and you get a starter that turns slow or not at all under load, but will spin fine on its own.

all they do at the parts store is jump it straight to a battery and see if it spins and the bendix ingages.


----------



## treeslayer2003

yep, I think you need a new starter. seen and been through this before. jmo


----------



## northmanlogging

tramp bushler said:


> My friend load tested it and it tested good. I'm betting that the one I replaced was good also.
> But here's a?? Does the diesel ford have a voltage regulator. Could that be doing this
> That black box thingy is looking to be more like the culprit. Or the key switch.



Like all fords regulator is separate from the alternator, black box only controls the transmission and maybe the rpm gauge (on older diesels... from pics seem to remember yers being late 80's early 90's)

Should be a sub solenoid on the passengers side fender well (the main solenoid for gassers) but otherwise the batteries are wired more or less direct to the starter, except for the solenoid that engages them.


----------



## bitzer

Did you bypass the key switch yet?


----------



## tramp bushler

yers being late 80's early 90's)

Should be a sub solenoid on the passengers side fender well (the main solenoid for gassers) but otherwise the batteries are wired more or less direct to the starter, except for the solenoid that engages them.[/QUOTE]

This is the solenoid/ relay we replaced with a new one.


----------



## tramp bushler

bitzer said:


> Did you bypass the key switch yet?



Don't know how to yet


. The thing that gets me is how it has steadily and progressively gotten worse regardless of what I do. It started great 2 weeks ago. I thot sure it was the relay. Weirdelectrical kind of stuff.


----------



## RandyMac

I can't say I feel your pain TB.


----------



## bitzer

tramp bushler said:


> Don't know how to yet



Well it probably won't pertain to your truck, but my '01 Ford has a solenoid bolted to the inside of the front quarter near the battery. A pos lead goes to that and then one from the key and one to the starter. I just use a jumper to bypass from the pos lead to the starter.

Re-reading northmans post that's pretty much what he said. I've also had problems with my transmission relay. The truck didn't want to start because it didn't think it was in park. It would just click at that solenoid.


----------



## madhatte

I sure do love that big fat fender-mounted solenoid on Fords.


----------



## northmanlogging

tramp bushler said:


> yers being late 80's early 90's)
> 
> Should be a sub solenoid on the passengers side fender well (the main solenoid for gassers) but otherwise the batteries are wired more or less direct to the starter, except for the solenoid that engages them.



This is the solenoid/ relay we replaced with a new one.[/QUOTE]

Should be a second bigger solenoid on the starter itself, like a chevy starter, it engages the bendix, and switches to full power, which if its bad you might as well change the starter


----------



## 056 kid

northmanlogging said:


> This is the solenoid/ relay we replaced with a new one.



Should be a second bigger solenoid on the starter itself, like a chevy starter, it engages the bendix, and switches to full power, which if its bad you might as well change the starter[/QUOTE]

You can rebuild the solenoid on the starter for cheap, but its really worth it to get a new starter. I was having heat soak problems on my fox, starts fine cold, wont turn at all hot.. very annoying...


----------



## jrcat

I have refrained from chiming in on the starter woes of idi fords...:frown:the best starter I came across for those things was the nippon denso. And I agree with northman... change the starter.


----------



## Driver625

When we put new batteries in the pick ups at the shop we always change both. If one goes bad the other one isn't to far behind and it's usually weak already. If jumping the solenoid doesn't turn 'er over then I agree with Northman and change the starter. If it's gotten worse the past two weeks the starter has probably had it. Had starters go in a couple Macks last week solenoid would click with the key and had power at the starter but wouldn' turn over. Mechanic changed the starter and VROOM, fired right up. Hope you get 'er goin'.


----------



## Metals406

My buddy Josh owns an Auto Electric shop. . . If you're still having troubles Glen, I'll call him tomorrow and run this situation by him.

Rebuilding starters isn't hard, you do have to know what the heck you're doing though -- same goes for alternators. Josh knows some neat tricks from years of being in the biz. He's even rebuilding the roller clutches in the drives -- which wasn't done in the past, the drives were just replaced.

And Nipple Denzo's are the good ones to have.


----------



## Metals406

Here's a little 346 action from the other day.

<iframe width="640" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/42F8AOJNhgI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


----------



## 056 kid

Metals406 said:


> My buddy Josh owns an Auto Electric shop. . . If you're still having troubles Glen, I'll call him tomorrow and run this situation by him.
> 
> Rebuilding starters isn't hard, you do have to know what the heck you're doing though -- same goes for alternators. Josh knows some neat tricks from years of being in the biz. He's even rebuilding the roller clutches in the drives -- which wasn't done in the past, the drives were just replaced.
> 
> And Nipple Denzo's are the good ones to have.



I know an old timer up in VA with a shop out in the country. That old man is the starter/alternator king. People like that are hard to find and disappearing fast.


----------



## Metals406

056 kid said:


> I know an old timer up in VA with a shop out in the country. That old man is the starter/alternator king. People like that are hard to find and disappearing fast.



They are a dying trade for sure. With all the Mexican't and chicom junk, people just want to buy from the auto parts store and throw them away when they go bad.


----------



## forestryworks

Metals406 said:


> Here's a little 346 action from the other day.



The Great Sawtroll will tell you, "You are much too tall for such a small saw. Vertical balance, ya know?"


----------



## bustedup

Tramp if all else fails give the starter a clunk with a hammer (if ya haven't already) it worked for me once........sparked a bit but it got me to the shop lol


----------



## HuskStihl

TB, if my day with my Rhino flex wing is any indication, you will soon see a light at the end of the tunnel, of course you'll have to dig through a bunch of #### to get to that point.
This morning I remembered I had an old land pride finish mower sitting on the back of my property, and scavenged the PTO shaft from that. Turns out to be an inch too long, but hacksaw mod fixes that. Suddenly I'm mowing! 5 minutes later I hit a stump hard enough to stall the tractor. Restarted, re-engaged the PTO, and clankity/clankity/clank, spindle bolt broke and the three others went with it. I'm loving this, because the mower has just given me the opportunity to do two of the things I like least about mowing. Replacing a spindle (always seems to leave me with less knuckle skin, but locktite seems to stop bleeding), and replacing a belt. But hey, we're mowing again. Until the outermost front wheel of the port side deck decides to catch sideways and pull the tire off the wheel, turning my mower into a trencher. Awesome, back to the old land pride, scavenge a yoke/wheel combo, set the mowing height, and finally finish my front 10 acres. Seemed like a crisis cause my 4 kids were camping with grandparents this weekend which is a rare opportunity to accomplish anything at all. Hope you and Bitz get y'all's stuff working without as much fun as I had.

P.S. Bustedup's thing about tapping the solenoid with the hammer has started my stuff a time or two. Good luck.


----------



## tramp bushler

Looks good Nate. Really rotten snags are a good place for a Saginaw face . 
For some reason the sound from your 346 about blew the speaker in my RAZR MAX. I hurt my ears! :msp_biggrin:

That would be an awesome climbing saw. Ex specialllyy with that new dog you guys made up.

I think I would double up my hearing protection if I was running it up a tree tho.


----------



## Metals406

tramp bushler said:


> Looks good Nate. Really rotten snags are a good place for a Saginaw face .
> For some reason the sound from your 346 about blew the speaker in my RAZR MAX. I hurt my ears! :msp_biggrin:
> 
> That would be an awesome climbing saw. Ex specialllyy with that new dog you guys made up.
> 
> I think I would double up my hearing protection if I was running it up a tree tho.



The wood was sound where I faced it up (surprisingly). The rest of it, well, it was what I was eyeballing and worried about. It had a large radial crack winding from about 4' above the face to the top, and the bark was about gone. :msp_scared:

If you notice at the end there, I was using the old "one arm sawing get the hell out'a there technique", in case she decided to fold on the way over. 

I didn't get all the stuff on video from that day. . . I had some wind snapped spars to take -- both were ant kills. One was a Larch, and I decided to try and swing it fer fun. It was about as punky as it could get, so I figured it'd just fall over wherever it wanted. But by God, I put a single-kerf swing dutch in her and she swung! It wasn't much, but it went into lay. :msp_biggrin:


----------



## tramp bushler

I gave the starter a few whacks with a 28 oz Vaughn Riggin ax. I only left light waffle tracks . 

Well. The Ford gets to rest up till I get back from Southeast . Hopefully it won't be snowing in june. We have had almost 8 full months of snow on the ground this winter. But only 6 1/2 months of winter.


----------



## Metals406

tramp bushler said:


> I gave the starter a few whacks with a 28 oz Vaughn Riggin ax. I only left light waffle tracks .
> 
> Well. The Ford gets to rest up till I get back from Southeast . Hopefully it won't be snowing in june. We have had almost 8 full months of snow on the ground this winter. But only 6 1/2 months of winter.



My cousin lives in AK (near Palmer I think?) -- she was just posting pics of snow on FB. Complaining about it too! 

She said something about not having to mow the lawn this year, cause it'll be winter-winter, with no summer.


----------



## bustedup

tramp bushler said:


> I gave the starter a few whacks with a 28 oz Vaughn Riggin ax. I only left light waffle tracks .
> 
> Well. The Ford gets to rest up till I get back from Southeast . Hopefully it won't be snowing in june. We have had almost 8 full months of snow on the ground this winter. But only 6 1/2 months of winter.



Safe journey buddy, stay safe cutting


----------



## forestryworks

Metals406 said:


> She said something about not having to mow the lawn this year



That's always a good thing. Gives one some peace and quiet


----------



## bustedup

Metals406 said:


> My cousin lives in AK (near Palmer I think?) -- she was just posting pics of snow on FB. Complaining about it too!
> 
> She said something about not having to mow the lawn this year, cause it'll be winter-winter, with no summer.



Lawns should be banned lol.......less marital dispute that way.....ie me not having to do a disappearing act to avoid cutting it. Then getting the dinner in the trash reply when I get back lol.


----------



## Eccentric

jrcat said:


> I have refrained from chiming in on the starter woes of idi fords...:frown:the best starter I came across for those things was the nippon denso. And I agree with northman... change the starter.





Metals406 said:


> My buddy Josh owns an Auto Electric shop. . . If you're still having troubles Glen, I'll call him tomorrow and run this situation by him.
> 
> Rebuilding starters isn't hard, you do have to know what the heck you're doing though -- same goes for alternators. Josh knows some neat tricks from years of being in the biz. He's even rebuilding the roller clutches in the drives -- which wasn't done in the past, the drives were just replaced.
> 
> And Nipple Denzo's are the good ones to have.



Yep. At this point it sounds like the starter to me. FWIW...................bad cables and connections (and weak batteries) will also hasten the death of a starter. When going to the trouble of replacing/rebuilding the starter it's a good idea to make sure the rest of the system is in good health. My IDI ford has the Nippondenso starter. I rebuilt the solenoid on it a while back. 

That truck also has worn ring gear teeth on the flexplate, and if the engine stops at just the 'right' place on shutdown the starter doesn't engage. That's when I get to lay on my back (usually when it's raining) and turn the crankshaft a bit with a breaker bar, extension, and big socket. Gotta pull the engine for a rebuild/replacement (that's another story involving the 2010 PNW GTG....) and that flexplate will be dealt with then. May swap in a manual while I'm at it instead. I don't like autos................even though that C6 is a good one.


----------



## northmanlogging

No stump in view... but here's a little sitka spruce to get this thread back on track. Broke the missus's winch line on this one, was down in an ugly hole... 32" bar and a 461 for reference.


----------



## treeslayer2003

northmanlogging said:


> No stump in view... but here's a little sitka spruce to get this thread back on track. Broke the missus's winch line on this one, was down in an ugly hole... 32" bar and a 461 for reference.



good job nm, saw looks new, how ya like it? you ever come up with a easy way ta tie a end knot by yourself?


----------



## northmanlogging

Love that saw...

As far as a knot in the winch line I probably should have taken pictures... (I wanted a load ready for the mill today.)

I keep a cat eye choker in the crummy and the skidder, for use with snatch blocks etc. so what I did was make a double over hand with one loop sneaking through the last slider, then slip on a shackle/clevis (whatever) over the tail end of the winch line, squeeze on a couple pairs of vice grips, tie that shackle to the cat eye choker that's tied to a stump, winch it in slowly until tight.

The shackle will stop on the vice grips allowing them to pull the knot tight, I've heard of guys using a figure eight not and that working just fine, which was my first attempt... that failed... pulled through the sliders. ya ever try untying 5/8 cable? I really should invest in some bolt cutters...


----------



## treeslayer2003

northmanlogging said:


> Love that saw...
> 
> As far as a knot in the winch line I probably should have taken pictures... (I wanted a load ready for the mill today.)
> 
> I keep a cat eye choker in the crummy and the skidder, for use with snatch blocks etc. so what I did was make a double over hand with one loop sneaking through the last slider, then slip on a shackle/clevis (whatever) over the tail end of the winch line, squeeze on a couple pairs of vice grips, tie that shackle to the cat eye choker that's tied to a stump, winch it in slowly until tight.
> 
> The shackle will stop on the vice grips allowing them to pull the knot tight, I've heard of guys using a figure eight not and that working just fine, which was my first attempt... that failed... pulled through the sliders. ya ever try untying 5/8 cable? I really should invest in some bolt cutters...



get big pair. I've used that figure eight knot but it is bulky. usually jus use vise grips and double overhand. seems like there otta be a better way, no prob with two head........yea I got a 461r 2 weeks ago, pulls a 28 in oak almost good as my 660


----------



## RandyMac

I tied plenty of hand and a half, figure 8s in 1 1/4" arch line, they never failed.


----------



## jrcat

On the old 5/8" swage cable on my td8 I just put the sliders on put a knot on the end as best I could and pulled on a tree stump carefully until the knot was set. That worked till I bought a new cable that had the ferrule on the end. The drum end has the tapered wedge.


----------



## northmanlogging

RandyMac said:


> I tied plenty of hand and a half, figure 8s in 1 1/4" arch line, they never failed.



The figure 8 would have worked if I hadn't screwed it up... didn't tighten down properly... sliders popped right off... didn't want to burn another 1/2 hour trying it again. Besides why the hell is the last choker on a slider anyway...


----------



## jrcat

northmanlogging said:


> The figure 8 would have worked if I hadn't screwed it up... didn't tighten down properly... sliders popped right off... didn't want to burn another 1/2 hour trying it again. Besides why the hell is the last choker on a slider anyway...



Good point lol


----------



## treeslayer2003

jrcat said:


> On the old 5/8" swage cable on my td8 I just put the sliders on put a knot on the end as best I could and pulled on a tree stump carefully until the knot was set. That worked till I bought a new cable that had the ferrule on the end. The drum end has the tapered wedge.



best thing bout a gearmatic. love that wedge. most other winches use that ball for retainment. it fly out if don't watch it till cable gets set.


----------



## jrcat

My winch has both the wedge and the notch for the ferrule.


----------



## tramp bushler

I don't have a winch :too_sad:


----------



## twochains

Shot this vid a couple weeks ago. Shows me making a mistake...Yeah! Short drags...unfinished cut on a pine causes it to bust the stump. I was cutting by myself on a weekend and this pine was back leaning and was going to pinch my bar or hang up so I knocked it down with a good oak. The oak was heavy topped heading towards the left with a good chance to miss the pine. Thanks for watching.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srfXWALWlY4


----------



## jrcat

tramp bushler said:


> I don't have a winch :too_sad:



Quick ..someone get his man a machine with a winch on it....


----------



## HuskStihl

tramp bushler said:


> I don't have a winch :too_sad:



I've got a winch, but my "skidder" is a 97 land cruiser, and my "deck" is a burn pile. Stay safe in SE and let us know how you like the 390 with the techlite


----------



## HuskStihl

twochains said:


> Shot this vid a couple weeks ago. Shows me making a mistake...Yeah! Short drags...unfinished cut on a pine causes it to bust the stump. I was cutting by myself on a weekend and this pine was back leaning and was going to pinch my bar or hang up so I knocked it down with a good oak. The oak was heavy topped heading towards the left with a good chance to miss the pine. Thanks for watching.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srfXWALWlY4



TC, I am glad to hear that for you this is a "bad scenario." For me, this is just a day with a chainsaw in my hands! I'da just re-faced that pine (looked to be about 8" on the video) a little higher on the trunk. You could also have called jrcat and asked him to give it a little push for ya (if I remember, he's basically you + me combined). Good aim with the oak, though

If you learned to cut more like me, you'd have more practice in this sort of scenario. I get #### stuck/hung/pinched more than I care to admit. I have that winch for a reason! 

Two serious things. 1) If you opened up your faces just a little, trees like that would be much less likely to hang like that. This is definitely dirt track criticism of Jack Rousch, so take it for what it's worth, but of the pro-faller's video's ive watched, you consistently make the skinniest faces

2) You and Bitz both know how to fall a tree. With him and his 390, it is about a 50 second proposition. Yours are 10 times longer, not because of your skills, but that 460 is not getting through the wood. You get paid to produce, it might be time to invest in something that will speed your production.

Please take this as respectfully as I intended it,
Jon


----------



## twochains

HuskStihl said:


> 2) You and Bitz both know how to fall a tree. With him and his 390, it is about a 50 second proposition. Yours are 10 times longer, not because of your skills, but that 460 is not getting through the wood. You get paid to produce, it might be time to invest in something that will speed your production.



LOL!....I know...I almost didn't post the vid due to how slow I got through the tree. I am fix'n to hit my boss up for an 066...either he just buy one or help me buy one. I want to make more vids but the slowness is pretty embarrassing for me. 

That little pine, it was gonna lean back up the hill on me and even though the vid doesn;t show it, all that timber had to be cabled out, and I didn't want to stick my saw...but damn I didn't know I wasn't far enough through it :bang:


----------



## jrcat

HuskStihl said:


> TC, I am glad to hear that for you this is a "bad scenario." For me, this is just a day with a chainsaw in my hands! I'da just re-faced that pine (looked to be about 8" on the video) a little higher on the trunk. You could also have called jrcat and asked him to give it a little push for ya (if I remember, he's basically you + me combined). Good aim with the oak, though
> 
> If you learned to cut more like me, you'd have more practice in this sort of scenario. I get #### stuck/hung/pinched more than I care to admit. I have that winch for a reason!
> 
> Two serious things. 1) If you opened up your faces just a little, trees like that would be much less likely to hang like that. This is definitely dirt track criticism of Jack Rousch, so take it for what it's worth, but of the pro-faller's video's ive watched, you consistently make the skinniest faces
> 
> 2) You and Bitz both know how to fall a tree. With him and his 390, it is about a 50 second proposition. Yours are 10 times longer, not because of your skills, but that 460 is not getting through the wood. You get paid to produce, it might be time to invest in something that will speed your production.
> 
> Please take this as respectfully as I intended it,
> Jon



I've seen worse cuts.


----------



## jrcat

twochains said:


> LOL!....I know...I almost didn't post the vid due to how slow I got through the tree. I am fix'n to hit my boss up for an 066...either he just buy one or help me buy one. I want to make more vids but the slowness is pretty embarrassing for me.
> 
> That little pine, it was gonna lean back up the hill on me and even though the vid doesn;t show it, all that timber had to be cabled out, and I didn't want to stick my saw...but damn I didn't know I wasn't far enough through it :bang:



Crap happens man. I noticed you do most of your cutting standing up it seems. Or its just the camera angle. Even as big as I am I get right down on my knees when Im cutting if I have to to mkae sure my cuts are matched up and to get a better view. Maybe I'm just nuts though and I do stand to be corrected lol. 


An after thought.... even when Im on my knees cutting I can still get my big arse up in a hurry and high tail it outta there.


----------



## lumberjack48

TC's your rakers are to low for that little saw, you have to keep rpm up to get chain speed. With rakers to low, its hard on crank seals and bearings and you, that has to drive you crazy, saw grabbing like that. With the low rakers, file cutters at 40 degree's, it wouldn't grab as bad.


----------



## twochains

jrcat said:


> Crap happens man. I noticed you do most of your cutting standing up it seems. Or its just the camera angle. Even as big as I am I get right down on my knees when Im cutting if I have to to mkae sure my cuts are matched up and to get a better view. Maybe I'm just nuts though and I do stand to be corrected lol.



Yeah I always squat/stand...I anchor my left elbow up from my knee and my other elbow in about the same position on the other leg. IDK it's just where I line my cuts up I guess. I never take a knee...just doesn't feel right. LOL...I am pretty flexible...I can squat on one foot and put the other boot behind my head! Seriously, I can!...even at 39 3/4 yrs. old! :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## twochains

lumberjack48 said:


> TC's your rakers are to low for that little saw, you have to keep rpm up to get chain speed. With rakers to low, its hard on crank seals and bearings and you, that has to drive you crazy, saw grabbing like that. With the low rakers, file cutters at 40 degree's, it wouldn't grab as bad.



Yep, I messed up on knocking them drags down. I switched to a full comp since that vid and have had a little better results as far as not sticking. It does drive me crazy... 

Always good to hear from ya Duane! :msp_thumbup: Hope all is well! Thanks


----------



## lumberjack48

I used a 034 Super for a felling saw many yrs, drop a Oak like that in about a minute. You don't need a 660 to fell timber this size.


----------



## bustedup

TC look at the 395 or 3120 lol or even if ya want a real saw a 2101 :hmm3grin2orange:


cutting on yer knees is cool unless your old and slow like me lol......then actually being on my feet kinda makes me feel safer :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## 056 kid

twochains said:


> Shot this vid a couple weeks ago. Shows me making a mistake...Yeah! Short drags...unfinished cut on a pine causes it to bust the stump. I was cutting by myself on a weekend and this pine was back leaning and was going to pinch my bar or hang up so I knocked it down with a good oak. The oak was heavy topped heading towards the left with a good chance to miss the pine. Thanks for watching.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srfXWALWlY4



Unfinished cutting, yea a big kerf in the face.... 

WHY?? I'm not trying to antagonize but I just don't really understand why people cut like that.


----------



## RandyMac

056 kid said:


> unfinished cutting, yea a big kerf in the face....
> 
> Why?? I'm not trying to antagonize but i just don't really understand why people cut like that.



lmao!!!


----------



## HuskStihl

jrcat said:


> I've seen worse cuts.



On every video I've ever posted. Dirt track critic, no harm intended


----------



## HuskStihl

lumberjack48 said:


> I used a 034 Super for a felling saw many yrs, drop a Oak like that in about a minute. You don't need a 660 to fell timber this size.



I think a 046 is perfect for the size trees in TC's videos, the one in his hands just looks to be low on compression. New rings (and piston if needed) and get rid of the base gasket (squish allowing) and it might be a whole new animal for $50 in parts and couple hours of work


----------



## jrcat

HuskStihl said:


> I think a 046 is perfect for the size trees in TC's videos, the one in his hands just looks to be low on compression. New rings (and piston if needed) and get rid of the base gasket (squish allowing) and it might be a whole new animal for $50 in parts and couple hours of work



I love my 372xp its a good all around saw. I want to send it to mastermind and have him work his voodoo on it. That and my 365 lol:crazy1:


----------



## roberte

bustedup said:


> TC look at the 395 or 3120 lol or even if ya want a real saw a 2101 :hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> 
> cutting on yer knees is cool unless your old and slow like me lol......then actually being on my feet kinda makes me feel safer :hmm3grin2orange:



husky, omg , hack, cough....:censored:


----------



## roberte

lumberjack48 said:


> I used a 034 Super for a felling saw many yrs, drop a Oak like that in about a minute. You don't need a 660 to fell timber this size.



need vs want....:msp_biggrin:


----------



## jrcat

roberte said:


> husky, omg , hack, cough....:censored:



Now now be nice lol


----------



## twochains

056 kid said:


> Unfinished cutting, yea a big kerf in the face....
> 
> WHY?? I'm not trying to antagonize but I just don't really understand why people cut like that.



I don't know. I knew it was crap, I don't really even know why I posted it.


----------



## jrcat

Hmmm anything that involves humans... has error..live and learn.


----------



## treeslayer2003

roberte said:


> husky, omg , hack, cough....:censored:



+1 :agree2:


----------



## treeslayer2003

twochains said:


> I don't know. I knew it was crap, I don't really even know why I posted it.



we all make flub ups, any man says he never did ain't cut much. yea I screw up sometimes too.
don't worry bout it man, ya survived and learned. that's whats important. least you knew it and posted it anyways, that takes guts.


----------



## roberte

jrcat said:


> Now now be nice lol



I am being nice :tongue2:


----------



## roberte

twochains said:


> I don't know. I knew it was crap, I don't really even know why I posted it.



I still say you had the bal.. to post it, so its cool, but the undercut & the backbar was a little tough to watch. Now I wasn't there, so I don't know what your conditions were/are.
Sure I will backbar the little ones too, but not that big. Maybe that's were a wrap handle will come in, just flip it and let saw pull.
The big dawgs will give you a pivot point to start that deeper face, or shallow, or whatever. I use a variety depending conditions. I hope you do get that new saw, whichever one, 461, 660, husky ackk, then send the one other to the rebuild academy.


----------



## jrcat

treeslayer...empty your pm inbox lol


----------



## jrcat

roberte said:


> I still say you had the bal.. to post it, so its cool, but the undercut & the backbar was a little tough to watch. Now I wasn't there, so I don't know what your conditions were/are.
> Sure I will backbar the little ones too, but not that big. Maybe that's were a wrap handle will come in, just flip it and let saw pull.
> The big dawgs will give you a pivot point to start that deeper face, or shallow, or whatever. I use a variety depending conditions. I hope you do get that new saw, whichever one, 461, 660, husky ackk, then send the one other to the rebuild academy.



:agree2:


----------



## treeslayer2003

jrcat said:


> treeslayer...empty your pm inbox lol



sorry, got it


----------



## bustedup

roberte said:


> husky, omg , hack, cough....:censored:



I can't help I'm just a hack lol


----------



## roberte

bustedup said:


> I can't help I'm just a hack lol



youll have to show me whats up with a husky. I cant say I have used one


----------



## bustedup

roberte said:


> youll have to show me whats up with a husky. I cant say I have used one



Then ya missing a whole experience lol


----------



## roberte

bustedup said:


> Then ya missing a whole experience lol



Oh I don't know, Mccullochs, Partner, Jonsered, Sthils. What am I missing:smile2:


----------



## jrcat

roberte said:


> youll have to show me whats up with a husky. I cant say I have used one



Here we go ...husky s stihl ... ford vs chevy vs dodge.... and if I did drink beer it might be bud vs busch vs ...oh whats that pee water they drink over there in that foreign place ... scotland .... I cant remember lol


----------



## bustedup

roberte said:


> Oh I don't know, Mccullochs, Partner, Jonsered, Sthils. What am I missing:smile2:



Husqvarna lol mind ya 3 there are made by em lol


----------



## roberte

jrcat said:


> Here we go ...husky s stihl ... ford vs chevy vs dodge.... and if I did drink beer it might be bud vs busch vs ...oh whats that pee water they drink over there in that foreign place ... scotland .... I cant remember lol



Tea & Scotch


----------



## roberte

bustedup said:


> Husqvarna lol mind ya 3 there are made by em lol



Not old school Macs


----------



## bustedup

jrcat said:


> Here we go ...husky s stihl ... ford vs chevy vs dodge.... and if I did drink beer it might be bud vs busch vs ...oh whats that pee water they drink over there in that foreign place ... scotland .... I cant remember lol



Short bus for you lol and no weather channel for 6 weeks lmao


----------



## jrcat

roberte said:


> Tea & Scotch



and you have to drink it while holding up a pinky finger lol


----------



## bustedup

roberte said:


> Not old school Macs



you ain't that old lol


----------



## treeslayer2003

bustedup said:


> Husqvarna lol mind ya 3 there are made by em lol



really only 2 saws now, well dolmar. never been near one


----------



## jrcat

bustedup said:


> Short bus for you lol and no weather channel for 6 weeks lmao



Oh no that just wont do ... the short bus I can handle ...feels like home ... but no weather channel....... thems fightin words


----------



## jrcat

I learned on old macs a 7-10 and a 10-10. One of which I still have. And this thing.


----------



## bustedup

jrcat said:


> Oh no that just wont do ... the short bus I can handle ...feels like home ... but no weather channel....... thems fightin words



lol lol .........queenbury rules?


----------



## treeslayer2003

jrcat said:


> I learned on old macs a 7-10 and a 10-10. One of which I still have. And this thing.



ah my achin hands


----------



## roberte

bustedup said:


> you ain't that old lol



Well I am not exactly young numerically either. I broke in on late 70S macs when they were something
View attachment 296461
View attachment 296462


660 & 440, Mac SP 81x2


----------



## jrcat

treeslayer2003 said:


> ah my achin hands



You kidding me.... my hands looked like balloons with sausages for fingers after running that 6-10 for 2 hours ......


----------



## jrcat

Nice saws Roberte


----------



## roberte

treeslayer2003 said:


> ah my achin hands



its not that bad


----------



## bustedup

roberte said:


> Well I am not exactly young numerically either. I broke in on late 70S macs when they were something
> View attachment 296461
> View attachment 296462
> 
> 
> 660 & 440, Mac SP 81x2



cool pics bro but I'll look into rehab to wean ya off the german things lol


----------



## jrcat

How you going to get him off the wiener schnitzel ? .....


----------



## treeslayer2003

had a 306 poulan, couldn't let go after a hour. gave it away


----------



## jrcat

Holy high jacked thread batman...


----------



## bustedup

roberte said:


> Tea & Scotch



I told ya before lol southern tea lol............it those folks south of the border that drink the other stuff and scotch lol hmmmmmmm that Japanese for the water of life lol


Oh and I don't have a pinky lol kinda lost it


----------



## roberte

bustedup said:


> cool pics bro but I'll look into rehab to wean ya off the german things lol



easy there tiger, we have our vways, yes


----------



## bustedup

roberte said:


> easy there tiger, we have our vways, yes



start thinking xp ways ......it a start lol


----------



## roberte

jrcat said:


> Holy high jacked thread batman...




View attachment 296466


I m trying to bring it around


----------



## bustedup

so was I with the xp bit lol


----------



## roberte

bustedup said:


> so was I with the xp bit lol



xp = xtra poopy or xtreme power, IDK


----------



## RandyMac

Ya bunch of weiners.


----------



## jrcat

roberte said:


> easy there tiger, we have our vways, yes



He called you tiger....


Randy ...easy there tiger lol


----------



## bustedup

RandyMac said:


> Ya bunch of weiners.



Evening


----------



## roberte

RandyMac said:


> Ya bunch of weiners.



At least its a mcculloch your using, and I know 
back to the rigging, thank you sir, you need some fresh mix


----------



## jrcat

RandyMac said:


> Ya bunch of weiners.



ah.....dankeshcon?...lol


----------



## RandyMac

I see some remedial knotbumping is indicated.


----------



## bustedup

Braced and tin lid on sir 


but before ya do I got asked yesterday what the diff between a blocked and gapped hinge ......I mostly looked on em as the same but I'm not so sure so before ya clunk me lite my ass etc would be obliged if ya could help


----------



## RandyMac

bustedup said:


> Braced and tin lid on sir
> 
> 
> but before ya do I got asked yesterday what the diff between a blocked and gapped hinge ......I mostly looked on em as the same but I'm not so sure so before ya clunk me lite my ass etc would be obliged if ya could help



You mean the difference between a proper blockcut and chunking out 'cause your cuts didn't match?


----------



## bustedup

RandyMac said:


> You mean the difference between a proper blockcut and chunking out 'cause your cuts didn't match?



That maybe the diff I guess thanks


----------



## Eccentric

RandyMac said:


> Ya bunch of weiners.





RandyMac said:


> I see some remedial knotbumping is indicated.



Ya want yer tire iron Randy, or are ya gonna set 'em ablaze?


----------



## RandyMac

Eccentric said:


> Ya want yer tire iron Randy, or are ya gonna set 'em ablaze?



I'm gonna swat 'em on the nose with a rolled up newspaper.


----------



## paccity

well don't get to do this much anymore , but it was a good day , tired,. some small export spruce on the coast. worked with old friend . said i could come back and help any time.


----------



## paccity

sorry for the cell pic quality.


----------



## forestryworks

bustedup said:


> Braced and tin lid on sir
> 
> 
> but before ya do I got asked yesterday what the diff between a blocked and gapped hinge ......I mostly looked on em as the same but I'm not so sure so before ya clunk me lite my ass etc would be obliged if ya could help



I think you've confused the terminology. A block face has a gap at the back of the face and the front of the holding wood. 

The back of a face cut traditionally ends in a pinch - gets the tree off the stump quicker. 

Gap face keeps the tree on the stump longer and allows the holding wood more flex.


----------



## forestryworks

paccity said:


> well don't get to do this much anymore , but it was a good day , tired,. some small export spruce on the coast. worked with old friend . said i could come back and help any time.



Looked like a fun time!


----------



## Hddnis

Sorry I don't have pics, but I got to employ the dutchman on three trees today, I think that is a record for one day. Swung one of them maybe 190° from its mild lean. I'd have gone the short way around but that would have hung it up in a leave tree for sure. A neighbor had come over to watch and he was so impressed he was giddy. Said I was using "witchcraft" and "voodoo" and "scorcery" I told him I had tried all three but the trees only respect wood nomes, forest fairies, and the whisper of the wind.


Mr. HE


----------



## HuskStihl

Hddnis said:


> Sorry I don't have pics, but I got to employ the dutchman on three trees today, I think that is a record for one day. Swung one of them maybe 190° from its mild lean. I'd have gone the short way around but that would have hung it up in a leave tree for sure. A neighbor had come over to watch and he was so impressed he was giddy. Said I was using "witchcraft" and "voodoo" and "scorcery" I told him I had tried all three but the trees only respect wood nomes, forest fairies, and the whisper of the wind.
> 
> 
> Mr. HE



The only way I could turn a tree 190 degrees would be if there was something really expensive 190 degrees from the tree's natural lean, which could not possibly be hit ever, in a million years. Good job doing it intentionally


----------



## jrcat

HuskStihl said:


> The only way I could turn a tree 190 degrees would be if there was something really expensive 190 degrees from the tree's natural lean, which could not possibly be hit ever, in a million years. Good job doing it intentionally



Are you always in self deprecation mode? lol


----------



## jrcat

http://www.arboristsite.com/attachments/forestry-logging-forum/296488d1369107865-069-jpg this would be a big spruce if it was on the east coast. I had to laugh when you said "small" spruce lol Nice work !


----------



## bustedup

forestryworks said:


> I think you've confused the terminology. A block face has a gap at the back of the face and the front of the holding wood.
> 
> The back of a face cut traditionally ends in a pinch - gets the tree off the stump quicker.
> 
> Gap face keeps the tree on the stump longer and allows the holding wood more flex.



Your probably right on thinking about it terminology are different in different locations but I get fully what you described :msp_thumbup:


----------



## roberte

jrcat said:


> Are you always in self deprecation mode? lol



Must be a Texas thing.


----------



## forestryworks

roberte said:


> Must be a Texas thing.



Damn right


----------



## Hddnis

roberte said:


> Must be a Texas thing.




I was thinking it would be anything but a Texas thing. Most texans seem to have an ego to match the land mass of their state, some to the point of being slightly annoying. 

Always good to find one with a sense of reality and humility.



Mr. HE


----------



## HuskStihl

jrcat said:


> Are you always in self deprecation mode? lol



I spent the first 38 years of my life being more or less an #######. I still did ok because I'm pretty smart and stuff. The last 4 years I have made a concerted effort to not let my ego get in the way of my happiness. More self-deprecation to come:msp_biggrin:


BTW I Hang around this forum because I like y'all and I'm trying to learn stuff. It was definitely not my place to criticize TC's saw and especially his technique. I'm working on being able to think something without saying it, but it remains a work in progress


----------



## forestryworks

Hddnis said:


> I was thinking it would be anything but a Texas thing. Most texans seem to have an ego to match the land mass of their state, some to the point of being slightly annoying.
> 
> Always good to find one with a sense of reality and humility.
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. HE



Oh, you've met most of the population of Texas? You must have a great deal of time on your hands. :monkey:


----------



## twochains

HuskStihl said:


> BTW I Hang around this forum because I like y'all and I'm trying to learn stuff. It was definitely not my place to criticize TC's saw and especially his technique. I'm working on being able to think something without saying it, but it remains a work in progress



Hey...no worries...I'm a big boy, I can take it. I told ya the other day that I was going to flack for this vid...I knew it and posted anyway. I am living and learning from that mistake waaaay more than blowing 3 1/2 ft off some junk pine pole that I didn't want to pinch my saw and have to pack out and get another saw. Hell...I even got RandyMac to say something directly to me, I even got a comment...he may have been laughing at me but it's something. At least he watched my video. 

The way I see it, when I get a good fresh saw, sharpen it correctly, cut a large tree in a quick fashion and some of the top guys on here that I look up to and have so much respect for...say, "Hey that was a good job"...then I will have earned the compliment. Until then...

Ya know what the upsetting part is? I never show the great days like yesterday...I literally had a bang up day yesterday and only I can appreciate it...leave it to me to post up some boner vid and by posting it cause Pros on this site to look at me as a chump. 

HuskStihl, don't feel bad about it, I posted the vid and therefore deserve anything I get. For someone to say that the vid was great, saw sounded great, good cuts put in...would have been a lie and I would have known it...quit beating yourself up over being honest.


----------



## HuskStihl

Hddnis said:


> I was thinking it would be anything but a Texas thing. Most texans seem to have an ego to match the land mass of their state, some to the point of being slightly annoying.
> 
> Always good to find one with a sense of reality and humility.
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. HE



Mr. HE,
I sincerely appreciate the compliment, but I will stand up for Texas and say generally big egos and big talkers are frowned upon here. The local saying for a big talker is "boy's all hat and no cattle."


----------



## twochains

*New saw*

I just priced the 660R model with 32" bar for less than a normal 660 with 25" bar!? Any thoughts as to why this would be? Prices from same saw shop here in town... 660 w/25" bar is $1,220 and the 660R w/32" bar and 3/4 wrap handle bar is $1,190. I can't figure this one out. The wrap handle bar and the 32" bar alone should drive the price up higher...hmmm. Looks like they have made my choice for me.


----------



## Trx250r180

twochains said:


> I just priced the 660R model with 32" bar for less than a normal 660 with 25" bar!? Any thoughts as to why this would be? Prices from same saw shop here in town... 660 w/25" bar is $1,220 and the 660R w/32" bar and 3/4 wrap handle bar is $1,190. I can't figure this one out. The wrap handle bar and the 32" bar alone should drive the price up higher...hmmm. Looks like they have made my choice for me.



660r with 32 inch bar is a nice setup ,mines off being ported right now


----------



## treeslayer2003

twochains said:


> I just priced the 660R model with 32" bar for less than a normal 660 with 25" bar!? Any thoughts as to why this would be? Prices from same saw shop here in town... 660 w/25" bar is $1,220 and the 660R w/32" bar and 3/4 wrap handle bar is $1,190. I can't figure this one out. The wrap handle bar and the 32" bar alone should drive the price up higher...hmmm. Looks like they have made my choice for me.



get the R, ya can always swap out the handle if ya don't like it. I bet you will like it.


----------



## 056 kid

twochains said:


> I just priced the 660R model with 32" bar for less than a normal 660 with 25" bar!? Any thoughts as to why this would be? Prices from same saw shop here in town... 660 w/25" bar is $1,220 and the 660R w/32" bar and 3/4 wrap handle bar is $1,190. I can't figure this one out. The wrap handle bar and the 32" bar alone should drive the price up higher...hmmm. Looks like they have made my choice for me.



That's pretty good, your getting a better side cover, bigger oil pump, handlebars, stiffer av? And a longer bar for cheaper. Better get it before someone realises haha.
I still think with just an opening of the muffler and a tune that 460 will wake up..


----------



## roberte

twochains said:


> I just priced the 660R model with 32" bar for less than a normal 660 with 25" bar!? Any thoughts as to why this would be? Prices from same saw shop here in town... 660 w/25" bar is $1,220 and the 660R w/32" bar and 3/4 wrap handle bar is $1,190. I can't figure this one out. The wrap handle bar and the 32" bar alone should drive the price up higher...hmmm. Looks like they have made my choice for me.




View attachment 296546

I ditched the sthils 32" for a true 33" cut.


----------



## treeslayer2003

056 kid said:


> That's pretty good, your getting a better side cover, bigger oil pump, handlebars, stiffer av? And a longer bar for cheaper. Better get it before someone realises haha.
> I still think with just an opening of the muffler and a tune that 460 will wake up..



I wondered if the rs have harder mounts. seems to or jus cuz a new saw? mine does seem to vibrate more

on the muffler, new 461 has a bigger outlet than my ol 460.


----------



## paccity

where do you find tipps for them? need one.


----------



## 056 kid

RandyMac said:


> lmao!!!



#### you laughing at? Randy..


----------



## 056 kid

paccity said:


> where do you find tipps for them? need one.



Has that got the funky "h" like tip on it? If so when you find some lemme know. Id like a few extras for my 42"!


----------



## roberte

paccity said:


> where do you find tipps for them? need one.



Hev.com.


----------



## treeslayer2003

they a lot better than stihl bars?


----------



## bustedup

paccity said:


> where do you find tipps for them? need one.



you'll get one on line bro but they ain't cheap but they are superb bars esp when pulling longer ones


----------



## bustedup

treeslayer2003 said:


> they a lot better than stihl bars?



If ya running long bars they are imo ......they stiffer and truer


----------



## 056 kid

The 42 I have does not sag at all on its side. Strong.


----------



## bustedup

twochains said:


> I just priced the 660R model with 32" bar for less than a normal 660 with 25" bar!? Any thoughts as to why this would be? Prices from same saw shop here in town... 660 w/25" bar is $1,220 and the 660R w/32" bar and 3/4 wrap handle bar is $1,190. I can't figure this one out. The wrap handle bar and the 32" bar alone should drive the price up higher...hmmm. Looks like they have made my choice for me.



Could be that they don't sell many full wraps down your way


----------



## twochains

056 kid said:


> #### you laughing at? Randy..



That would be me...


----------



## bustedup

twochains said:


> That would be me...



Stop being hard on ya self .......your doing fine bro


----------



## Metals406

You boys are making it hard to keep up with this thread. . . Carry on. opcorn:


----------



## jrcat

Metals406 said:


> You boys are making it hard to keep up with this thread. . . Carry on. opcorn:



It took me 20 minutes to catch up ()


----------



## HuskStihl

056 kid said:


> That's pretty good, your getting a better side cover, bigger oil pump, handlebars, stiffer av? And a longer bar for cheaper. Better get it before someone realises haha.
> I still think with just an opening of the muffler and a tune that 460 will wake up..



The advantage of the 660, you'll never need to buy a bigger saw. The drawbacks, big money, and you won't like it in between the trees. This is gonna kick the CAD right out of remission


----------



## bustedup

HuskStihl said:


> The advantage of the 660, you'll never need to buy a bigger saw. The drawbacks, big money, and you won't like it in between the trees. This is gonna kick the CAD right out of remission



In between trees? ya mean weight/bar length?


----------



## jrcat

bustedup said:


> In between trees? ya mean weight/bar length?



Pffft you cant decipher texas talk ...... its only spoken by texans....with no cattle .......opcorn:


----------



## RVALUE

jrcat said:


> Pffft you cant decipher texas talk ...... its only spoken by texans....with no cattle .......opcorn:



.....and a big ol' belt buckle and a little bitty ....


----------



## bitzer

Holy ####! Theres a lot of chatter in here these days.... 

Clint- You are still running that saw like you've got a short bar on it or at least in that video. I tried to steer you to the 28" full skip! There was a reason with that cc range in hardwood. I wouldn't go longer than that. Anyway, if you can part with your 460 for about 2 weeks I'll go through it for you. How much time is on it and what is it pulling for compression? I'm no race saw builder, but I can woods port it well enough that it'll bag at least another thousand per day for you. I don't do pop-ups or polish ports. Just open er up were it should be.


----------



## HuskStihl

bitzer said:


> Holy ####! Theres a lot of chatter in here these days....
> 
> Clint- You are still running that saw like you've got a short bar on it or at least in that video. I tried to steer you to the 28" full skip! There was a reason with that cc range in hardwood. I wouldn't go longer than that. Anyway, if you can part with your 460 for about 2 weeks I'll go through it for you. How much time is on it and what is it pulling for compression? I'm no race saw builder, but I can woods port it well enough that it'll bag at least another thousand per day for you. I don't do pop-ups or polish ports. Just open er up were it should be.



Seriously take him up on this. I'll mail you my 385xp with a 28" and some chains if you need a saw while yours is being bitzerized


----------



## HuskStihl

bustedup said:


> In between trees? ya mean weight/bar length?





jrcat said:


> Pffft you cant decipher texas talk ...... its only spoken by texans....with no cattle .......opcorn:



Should be self explanatory for anybody who's held one! (if it's not, I meant 'cause it is big and heavy):msp_biggrin:




RVALUE said:


> .....and a big ol' belt buckle and a little bitty ....



Hey, it's a medical condition, and it's serious and embarassing. That hurt my feelings


----------



## jrcat

This was the first on my list this morning a red oak , 3 of them growing from an old stump. Im guessing it was an old growth stump all 3 were near the same age. I counted 85 rings plus or minus. I had to leave the stumps high to have enough room to get in with the saw. The last 2 pics are of one of the stumps. Faced it , bored out the center hence the small hinge, but it keeps the pull outs to a minimum and helps keep them from splitting to I think.


----------



## jrcat

And yes its a short bar. The nose on my 24" bound up so I keep a spare under the seat of my dozer. I threw it on so I could finish up a hitch to get back to the landing.


----------



## treeslayer2003

jrcat said:


> This was the first on my list this morning a red oak , 3 of them growing from an old stump. Im guessing it was an old growth stump all 3 were near the same age. I counted 85 rings plus or minus. I had to leave the stumps high to have enough room to get in with the saw. The last 2 pics are of one of the stumps. Faced it , bored out the center hence the small hinge, but it keeps the pull outs to a minimum and helps keep them from splitting to I think.



pretty work!


----------



## treeslayer2003

bitzer said:


> Holy ####! Theres a lot of chatter in here these days....
> 
> Clint- You are still running that saw like you've got a short bar on it or at least in that video. I tried to steer you to the 28" full skip! There was a reason with that cc range in hardwood. I wouldn't go longer than that. Anyway, if you can part with your 460 for about 2 weeks I'll go through it for you. How much time is on it and what is it pulling for compression? I'm no race saw builder, but I can woods port it well enough that it'll bag at least another thousand per day for you. I don't do pop-ups or polish ports. Just open er up were it should be.



+1 28 and full skip is what I run.


----------



## jrcat

treeslayer2003 said:


> pretty work!



Thank you sir. I try my best.


----------



## jrcat

Those reds are clean and straight as an arrow so Im hoping they go for veneer.


----------



## treeslayer2003

jrcat said:


> Those reds are clean and straight as an arrow so Im hoping they go for veneer.



they should be some kind of grade. look about like what i'm cutting now.


----------



## bustedup

jrcat said:


> This was the first on my list this morning a red oak , 3 of them growing from an old stump. Im guessing it was an old growth stump all 3 were near the same age. I counted 85 rings plus or minus. I had to leave the stumps high to have enough room to get in with the saw. The last 2 pics are of one of the stumps. Faced it , bored out the center hence the small hinge, but it keeps the pull outs to a minimum and helps keep them from splitting to I think.



cool bro


Did ya put in a cut in front off the hinge?


----------



## jrcat

bustedup said:


> cool bro
> 
> 
> Did ya put in a cut in front off the hinge?



I guess Im not understanding what you mean.


----------



## treeslayer2003

I think he bored it


----------



## jrcat

bustedup said:


> cool bro
> 
> 
> Did ya put in a cut in front off the hinge?



I guess Im not understanding what you mean.


----------



## paccity

gutted it.


----------



## bustedup

jrcat said:


> I guess Im not understanding what you mean.



I need new glasses lol sorry disregard lol


----------



## twochains

That oak looks good! You bored the heart out, did you do it from the face or the back cut?


----------



## jrcat

twochains said:


> That oak looks good! You bored the heart out, did you do it from the face or the back cut?



The face


----------



## RVALUE

treeslayer2003 said:


> they should be some kind of grade. look about like what i'm cutting now.






The best cabinet wood (red oak) I ever got was from New Hampshire. 

We had a nice wind help us out last night, putting them on the houses for us.


----------



## paccity

[video=youtube;XgcTdBDwnLo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=XgcTdBDwnLo#t=0s[/video] there is some falling in it.


----------



## roberte

bustedup said:


> I need new glasses lol sorry disregard lol



Or back away from the scotch bottle


----------



## roberte

jrcat said:


> And yes its a short bar. The nose on my 24" bound up so I keep a spare under the seat of my dozer. I threw it on so I could finish up a hitch to get back to the landing.



That's a drag when that happens.


----------



## stikine

paccity said:


> [video=youtube;XgcTdBDwnLo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=XgcTdBDwnLo#t=0s[/video] there is some falling in it.



Looks like some footage from the movie "Timber Tramps"? If so, some was filmed up the Bradfield River and Zarembo Is. near Wrangell.


----------



## bitzer

Tallest stick in this woods so far. This basswood had 3 12s and 2 10s in er. Also knockin that maple ahead loose. 







Average bunk full. A bunch of 10s, some 12s, and a 14. 





Left too little of a coupling. Lost my butt log. Too steep to ride down the side of this one. Usually I'll buck them and leave a coupling so I can snap them at the bottom to save time. 





Makin daylight! Its better in person, but you can definetely see the line where I've opened er up. 






View attachment 296773

View attachment 296774

View attachment 296775

View attachment 296776


----------



## bitzer

First time in almost a week on the saw yesterday. After breakdowns and bull#### I sat in the machine for 2 and a half days. Its amazing how rusty a guy can get after time off from the saw. Anyway these red oaks were 2nd, 3rd, and 4th sawtimber trees for the day. They made 4 12s and 6 10s. I also made 7 pulp sticks out of the tops and from a maple pulp tree (first tree to go that was out of camera shot). I cut about four minutes off of this video where I was out of shot. Didn't want to bore the hell out of you guys too much! I planned to lay all three out right away and then buck, but didn't like the look of it so I bucked and pulped the first two out before I dumped the third. I also had to swing the second two from a deer stand that they were leaning at. I must have nicked something when pulpin out the tops because my saw was binding a little when layin out that third one. ####### pulp and ####### rocks!

Hey, I just watched the vid to make sure its showing right (makin sure damn new fangled tech stuff works) and it only showed 3 and a half minutes of it. I just reposted it and it should be 8 min and some change. Hopefully it works this time. Yeah I know long movies can be tough to watch...

[video=youtube;rqD9NRoQE_w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqD9NRoQE_w[/video]


----------



## treeslayer2003

great pics bitz, if I could jus remember the camera I'd share too. cutting almost the same stuff only tree length. glad to see franklin is back up and running. catch ya later.


----------



## bitzer

Thanks! Yeah 1000 bucks on the rebuild and almost a week down. Sucks!


----------



## HuskStihl

I really love the sound of that 390 Bitz. Strong, strong looking saw. I thought that first bucking cut would be a challenge. Nope. Nice looking timber


----------



## treeslayer2003

bitzer said:


> Thanks! Yeah 1000 bucks on the rebuild and almost a week down. Sucks!



ya know I think my equipment gets a lot more than I do, guess that's jus part of it.


----------



## dooby

*sugar bars*



paccity said:


> where do you find tipps for them? need one.



what gauge you need ? might know were ther are some .063's . 3/8's of course. they were the best bars i have ever ran. didnt know you could still get them. local knife maker used to love it when one of us would mess one up. never ran one longer then 36" though.


----------



## Metals406

Well hell Bitz! You waz bushelin'!! 

On the dutch you threw in, ya might try it like old Ron showed me to see if ya like it?

Cut in past your gun until the tree sits a bit. . . Power out to keep the kerf clean of chips. Cut your face in. Now, start sawing up the back but favor the dutch side a little to encourage that initial momentum you need, and keep sawing to keep it going. Then a fella can blip his way more into the hold-side with the trigger, to saw it up as it swings.

If that makes sense?


----------



## Gologit

HuskStihl said:


> I really love the sound of that 390 Bitz.



He runs that saw the way it should be run. Listen to it again...he get's every bit of work out of that saw that he can without ramming and jamming and beating the hell out of it. He's letting it run free and letting it eat...not forcing it. That's the way a saw should be run. 
He's getting some wood on the ground with a minimum of fuss and very little wasted motion...and he's not killing his saw doing it.

And it _does_ sound good. For a Husky. :msp_biggrin:


----------



## roberte

Good work there Bitzer


----------



## HuskStihl

Gologit said:


> And it _does_ sound good. For a Husky. :msp_biggrin:




I made an mp3 of that saw cutting and play it on repeat when I'm sleeping. Kinda like baby Mozart, and it nicely drowns out the wife's snoring


----------



## bustedup

HuskStihl said:


> I made an mp3 of that saw cutting and play it on repeat when I'm sleeping. Kinda like baby Mozart, and it nicely drowns out the wife's snoring



buy a clothes peg lol


----------



## bitzer

Gologit said:


> He runs that saw the way it should be run. Listen to it again...he get's every bit of work out of that saw that he can without ramming and jamming and beating the hell out of it. He's letting it run free and letting it eat...not forcing it. That's the way a saw should be run.
> He's getting some wood on the ground with a minimum of fuss and very little wasted motion...and he's not killing his saw doing it.
> 
> And it _does_ sound good. For a Husky. :msp_biggrin:



Thank you Bob! If the saw shop in town sold big Stihls I'd be tossing a 660 around. Tough to beat having your saw shop only five minutes from the house. I'm on a first name basis with those guys now. Like when I call in and say this is Bob, they know who it is right away. Its the kind of shop that has big two mans up on display as decorations. There is a Stihl dealer in town, but their big saw is a 361. I'd get lost in the shuffle over there pretty quickly too.


----------



## bitzer

Metals406 said:


> Well hell Bitz! You waz bushelin'!!
> 
> On the dutch you threw in, ya might try it like old Ron showed me to see if ya like it?
> 
> Cut in past your gun until the tree sits a bit. . . Power out to keep the kerf clean of chips. Cut your face in. Now, start sawing up the back but favor the dutch side a little to encourage that initial momentum you need, and keep sawing to keep it going. Then a fella can blip his way more into the hold-side with the trigger, to saw it up as it swings.
> 
> If that makes sense?



Thank you Nate! That's funny you mention that about the dutch. I thought I might get busted out on it. In these woods with so much heart rot I've been making sure I have a clean face to work with. I've been burned by putting my dutch in first when cutting in a similar woods. Otherwise, yeah its a lot faster to put your dutch in first and then bring it around to the gun. I also noticed when I had to bust my faces out(rusty) that I typically get my saw started in the back cut before I take my ax out, but instead put the saw on the ground in the video. The less the saw leaves the hands or the wood the more money you make. Its funny how a guy will do stupid or unusual stuff with a camera rolling even though no one ever has to see it. Another thing about those red oaks, they always have a lean. At least around here. Staying on the throttle and knowing when to let them move is key with them. If they are headed in the right direction let em go. They break off easily up here. It can be easy to ask to much of them. Thanks again!


----------



## HuskStihl

Speaking of 390's in capable hands, at what point do we need to send a search party out looking for the TB?


----------



## northmanlogging

here's a couple from today. One of is from dumping three stems at once... looking back before bucking the only good one up.

The other is for all the whiners that say you cant cut hard wood with a 32" bar on a 461. As a side note walked this one around about 150-180 degreas from its lean...


----------



## bitzer

No one said it can't be done. Just slow as #### if that's what you're cutting all day.


----------



## northmanlogging

Slow... I didn't think it was all that slow... took a little longer then the hemlock and spruce I've been playing with but not like I was falling asleep with the saw in my hands are anything, reading a book during the back cut, practicing A.S.L. on the face...


----------



## bitzer

That's one tree. Try that day after day on every tree. Hell I've run a 36" bar full comp on a 440/460bb. Its slow.


----------



## northmanlogging

Yeah If had to cut this size hardwood everyday I might move up to a 660, But to me its not worth the extra weight and cost, that and I'd go and try to run a 36-48" bar on a 660... you know losing all the gains over the 460-461...


----------



## RandyMac

northmanlogging said:


> Yeah If had to cut this size hardwood everyday I might move up to a 660, But to me its not worth the extra weight and cost, that and I'd go and try to run a 36-48" bar on a 660... you know losing all the gains over the 460-461...



ya daisy, go six cubes


----------



## northmanlogging

If I stop punching holes in skidder tires the and make some decent money this year, I plan on getting an 880... I don't really need one, its just, MORE POWER!!!:msp_w00t:


----------



## bitzer

Yeah them ####ing skidder tires aren't cheap. Mine are around 3 grand with the mounting. Ya gotta do what ya gotta do. My new 390 turned into a rebuilt fuel inj pump. ####### ####ing machines are worse than a woman. Always needing something.


----------



## Trx250r180

northmanlogging said:


> Yeah If had to cut this size hardwood everyday I might move up to a 660, But to me its not worth the extra weight and cost, that and I'd go and try to run a 36-48" bar on a 660... you know losing all the gains over the 460-461...



my 461 is ported ,i haven't found a tree it wont cut yet ,in a 30 inch round of fir its about 5-7 seconds faster in a cut than my 440 hybrid or ported 460 ,it feels faster than my 660 with 32 inch bar also ,the 660 is off being ported right now ,i will have to see how they do once its back ,i still don't think its worth packing the extra weight around though the 461 is a real good saw


----------



## northmanlogging

bitzer said:


> Yeah them ####ing skidder tires aren't cheap. Mine are around 3 grand with the mounting. Ya gotta do what ya gotta do. My new 390 turned into a rebuilt fuel inj pump. ####### ####ing machines are worse than a woman. Always needing something.



I'm looking at 14-1800 a tire or more, plus mount. There is an outfit in ever-rot that says they might be able to fix it for around 200. There the same shop I got a quote for retreads at around 800 a tire. I'm gonna cross my fingers and hope its fixable, not sure I could afford a new tire right now:msp_unsure:


----------



## treeslayer2003

northmanlogging said:


> I'm looking at 14-1800 a tire or more, plus mount. There is an outfit in ever-rot that says they might be able to fix it for around 200. There the same shop I got a quote for retreads at around 800 a tire. I'm gonna cross my fingers and hope its fixable, not sure I could afford a new tire right now:msp_unsure:



nm, I've been thro that before looks like it could be fixed with a boot and new tube. tire guys don't like it, but a temp fix till ya can do better........they 18.4x26 right don't see them much any more. I sure wish could still get reliner [flap] that would perma fix lotta tires. how can ya put a new one on same axle with a 50%, good way tear up a rear. rather fix a 50% to run with it.


----------



## lumberjack48

Good video bitzer, felling and bucking with the 390. That 390 sounds and cuts like the 034 Supers i fell with for years. I loved tipping timber with the 034, impressed me everyday i used it. I fell tree length for two skidders day after day with one, 8 to 12 tanks of gas a day.

I ran recaps 35 yrs ago on a C5 cable skidder with no issues.


----------



## treeslayer2003

lumberjack48 said:


> Good video bitzer, felling and bucking with the 390. That 390 sounds and cuts like the 034 Supers i fell with for years. I loved tipping timber with the 034, impressed me everyday i used it. I fell tree length for two skidders day after day with one, 8 to 12 tanks of gas a day.
> 
> I ran recaps 35 yrs ago on a C5 cable skidder with no issues.



lj, I never heard a caped skidder tires, but I gonna ask ma tire dealer when I see him


----------



## Metals406

northmanlogging said:


> I'm looking at 14-1800 a tire or more, plus mount. There is an outfit in ever-rot that says they might be able to fix it for around 200. There the same shop I got a quote for retreads at around 800 a tire. I'm gonna cross my fingers and hope its fixable, not sure I could afford a new tire right now:msp_unsure:



Find someone to give you a deal on foam fill!


----------



## lumberjack48

Recaps, retreads same thing


----------



## jrcat

treeslayer2003 said:


> lj, I never heard a caped skidder tires, but I gonna ask ma tire dealer when I see him



I have never seen capped skidder tires either, would be interesting though. Lots of gravel pits in my area with capped loader tires so why not. Loader tires take a beating too BAD.


----------



## twochains

Who is needing skidder tires?? Who ever it is needs to hit me up! I have a line on some excellent deals and prices...seriously!


----------



## jrcat

twochains said:


> Who is needing skidder tires?? Who ever it is needs to hit me up! I have a line on some excellent deals and prices...seriously!



Northman needs one. Look at his post here from earlier or look in the skidder thread .. Looks like he stuck one with a piece of wood..


Northman are those AG tires on that ? they almost look like ag tires


----------



## jrcat

Metals406 said:


> Find someone to give you a deal on foam fill!



Thats what I would do if I had the ching to do it lol


----------



## HuskStihl

jrcat said:


> Thats what I would do if I had the ching to do it lol



Don't see a lot of Asian loggers....:jester:


----------



## northmanlogging

jrcat said:


> Northman needs one. Look at his post here from earlier or look in the skidder thread .. Looks like he stuck one with a piece of wood..
> 
> 
> Northman are those AG tires on that ? they almost look like ag tires



No, there bfg "Logger Specials" probably been on the machine since 1983... Not so sure they have the steel belting that the Firestones have. (Ironically my birth father worked at Firestone making skidder tires up until a few years ago...)

Took it in today (after breaking a breaker bar...), tire dudes hymmed and hawed, but they should be able to fix it maybe... I hope... got the spare on and running it for now, wont get the other tire back until Saturday at the earliest


----------



## bitzer

lumberjack48 said:


> Good video bitzer, felling and bucking with the 390. That 390 sounds and cuts like the 034 Supers i fell with for years. I loved tipping timber with the 034, impressed me everyday i used it. I fell tree length for two skidders day after day with one, 8 to 12 tanks of gas a day.
> 
> I ran recaps 35 yrs ago on a C5 cable skidder with no issues.



Thank you! I liked your comment a while back about there are three ways to fall a tree without a wedge. Using dutchmans and the like. Its good to know there are others out there cutting hardwood that don't bore every ####ing tree.


----------



## RVALUE

Not to hijack the thread, but I have never heard a good reason why they don't foam a used tire.


The foam guys I talked to years ago, wouldn't do a used tire.

Anyone?


----------



## treeslayer2003

RVALUE said:


> Not to hijack the thread, but I have never heard a good reason why they don't foam a used tire.
> 
> 
> The foam guys I talked to years ago, wouldn't do a used tire.
> 
> Anyone?



donno r, but wouldn't a skidder ride awful rough with foam?


----------



## northmanlogging

treeslayer2003 said:


> donno r, but wouldn't a skidder ride awful rough with foam?



Skidders ride smooth? Never heard of such a thing...:biggrin:


----------



## jrcat

That foam flexes and gives you should see foam filled loader tires flex and roll. After all it is FOAM so has lots of air space or gas filled space. The foam will actually adhere to the inside of the tire from what I have seen. so a clean tire is essential. Imagine if that foam hardened separate of the tire..... you would have a loose tire with a semi hard inside .. it would destroy the tire in short order.


----------



## treeslayer2003

ya'll know skidders beat the crap outta ya, grapple worse than cable. found out to run more air in back on the grapple ta keep bead from rolling. now it beats me worse but tires stay on rim.


----------



## twochains

Some vids from the other day. Nothing big just knocking down a set of RO. They will be listed in sequence. Thanks in advance for watching.

My Edited Video - YouTube

FILE0005 - YouTube


----------



## kjp

twochains said:


> Some vids from the other day. Nothing big just knocking down a set of RO. They will be listed in sequence. Thanks in advance for watching.
> 
> My Edited Video - YouTube
> 
> FILE0005 - YouTube



Nice work! You can really lay em down.


----------



## bustedup

Good on ya TC


----------



## roberte

twochains said:


> Some vids from the other day. Nothing big just knocking down a set of RO. They will be listed in sequence. Thanks in advance for watching.
> 
> My Edited Video - YouTube
> 
> FILE0005 - YouTube



I told you it was good stuff


----------



## HuskStihl

TC that's the best falling video of yours I've seen. Very solid job


----------



## bitzer

Stem lean trumping top weight. The picture is a little deceiving. The top is over the back a ways. The stem had a decent lean to the lay. Used a wedge as a bobber. These always play mind games with me. 







Made 2 12s and 2 10s out of her.






This red is probably going to be the tallest stick in this woods. two 12s, a 10 and four 8s. 






View attachment 297892

View attachment 297893

View attachment 297894


----------



## jrcat

Nice work bitzer.


----------



## bitzer

Thank you sir!


----------



## twochains

bitzer said:


> Stem lean trumping top weight. The picture is a little deceiving. The top is over the back a ways. The stem had a decent lean to the lay. Used a wedge as a bobber. These always play mind games with me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Made 2 12s and 2 10s out of her.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This red is probably going to be the tallest stick in this woods. two 12s, a 10 and four 8s.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 297892
> 
> View attachment 297893
> 
> View attachment 297894



What kind of timber is that bitzer? That's some slick bark!


----------



## jrcat

bitzer said:


> Thank you sir!



Any time!


----------



## treeslayer2003

hey bitzer, you and I have almost the same timber. beech, white and red oak, hickory. ya got tulip poplar there too?


----------



## 056 kid

twochains said:


> What kind of timber is that bitzer? That's some slick bark!



Looks like red oak, Bitz can correct me ifin I is wrong.

Other is beech.


----------



## roberte

northmanlogging said:


> Skidders ride smooth? Never heard of such a thing...:biggrin:



about as smooth as un-aged scotch


----------



## bitzer

Like 056 said, red oak and beech. No yellow poplar this far north. I wish there were cause they look like fun. Yeah if its wet and you're not wearing corks forget walking that beech. Great for carving in the trunk though. I cut one that had a bunch of initials in it and the year 1943.


----------



## hammerlogging

quality work by a quality individual:
View attachment 298043



some of my morning. commodity wood, clean and simple.
View attachment 298044


Thanks for working on a Saturday.


----------



## treeslayer2003

hey, someones cutting poplar besides me. yer markets holden good down there hammer?


----------



## bitzer

Hey Joe nice pics! That Ted cutting? What is that blue thing in the lay in the first pic?


----------



## twochains

bitzer said:


> Hey Joe nice pics! That Ted cutting? What is that blue thing in the lay in the first pic?



bitzer, that is what I was wondering... if that was 056kid's work! Looks pretty darn nice and tidy for sure! Who ever's work that is...it looks great! Looks like someone was marking their shot with a ball cap maybe???


----------



## paccity

hammer, nice lay.


----------



## paccity

here are some more pic's of the spruce ol ralph and i were in to a couple weeks ago.


----------



## hammerlogging

bitzer said:


> Hey Joe nice pics! That Ted cutting? What is that blue thing in the lay in the first pic?



whoever it is he seems to have a preference for the larger stems. yeah, I think that cap was just placed there when gear was dropped enroute to starting the day, wasn't in the target or anything.


----------



## bitzer

hammerlogging said:


> whoever it is he seems to have a preference for the larger stems. yeah, I think that cap was just placed there when gear was dropped enroute to starting the day, wasn't in the target or anything.



Maybe a reincarnated old growth cutter? Good pictures man. You gotta get more of em up more often!


----------



## bitzer

Paccity- Nice pictures, looks like fun! 

My wife gave me the go ahead to take a week off and fall some PNW big sticks. Anyone got a couple of strips for me?


----------



## RandyMac

bitzer said:


> Paccity- Nice pictures, looks like fun!
> 
> My wife gave me the go ahead to take a week off and fall some PNW big sticks. Anyone got a couple of strips for me?



Sorry, all gone, some old guys cut it.


----------



## Eccentric

RandyMac said:


> Sorry, all gone, some old guys cut it.



There's a few left..........but they're almost all penned up in parks.


----------



## dooby

hammerlogging said:


> quality work by a quality individual:
> View attachment 298043
> 
> 
> 
> some of my morning. commodity wood, clean and simple.
> View attachment 298044
> 
> 
> Thanks for working on a Saturday.


Damn nice lay on the timber, looks like some good timber! Don't know that much about hardwoods. Cut a little salvage on some heli-jobs. Would love to tramp again. Maybe this fall. My roots are from Lenoir,N.C., is that close to you. The family name is Holder. Some day i will make it out there to check out the family roots. Anyway-thanks for the pictures!


----------



## bitzer

RandyMac said:


> Sorry, all gone, some old guys cut it.



Ya bastids..... Ok some tall sticks then? 200ft plus please.


----------



## Gologit

bitzer said:


> Ya bastids..... Ok some tall sticks then? 200ft plus please.



200 foot? Yaaaaaawwwwwwnnnnnn. :msp_biggrin:


----------



## bitzer

Damn, If mine tickle a 100ft I'm lucky. Anything over 200 and my neck would get sore. 
All right Bob you got any really ugly, really steep ground wood? I'll take the worst! I may need new knees after the first hour or so though.


----------



## northmanlogging

anybody else think that spruce bark feels odd... under calks? almost like yer not really sticking but you are...


----------



## Gologit

bitzer said:


> Damn, If mine tickle a 100ft I'm lucky. Anything over 200 and my neck would get sore.
> All right Bob you got any really ugly, really steep ground wood? I'll take the worst! I may need new knees after the first hour or so though.



Nothing very exciting right now but there's one coming up this fall that might increase your pulse rate a little. I don't have the job yet but I'll probably bid it. If I bid it I'll probably get it. Helicopter ground.

LOL...I'm not sure I really want it...the closer I get to full retirement the better full retirement looks.


----------



## Rounder

Nice pics Joe. A guy could work a lifetime if all the ground was that nice.

Hope all's well - Sam


----------



## bustedup

Gologit said:


> Nothing very exciting right now but there's one coming up this fall that might increase your pulse rate a little. I don't have the job yet but I'll probably bid it. If I bid it I'll probably get it. Helicopter ground.
> 
> LOL...I'm not sure I really want it...the closer I get to full retirement the better full retirement looks.



Hey you'll be like my gramps and my Dad..........you'll retire then after a couple of weeks you'll un-retire ........(my grandma and mom had something to do with that lol......they got drivin nuts having them around)


----------



## twochains

View attachment 298177
View attachment 298178
View attachment 298179
View attachment 298180


An oak bore killed RO that was right in the middle of my pine set.


----------



## treeslayer2003

twochains said:


> View attachment 298177
> View attachment 298178
> View attachment 298179
> View attachment 298180
> 
> 
> An oak bore killed RO that was right in the middle of my pine set.



good work tc


----------



## dooby

northmanlogging said:


> anybody else think that spruce bark feels odd... under calks? almost like yer not really sticking but you are...



Kinda like walking on big corn flakes.lol


----------



## bitzer

Gologit said:


> Nothing very exciting right now but there's one coming up this fall that might increase your pulse rate a little. I don't have the job yet but I'll probably bid it. If I bid it I'll probably get it. Helicopter ground.
> 
> LOL...I'm not sure I really want it...the closer I get to full retirement the better full retirement looks.



I bet. My wife means well, but if I really took off for a week I think I'd have to commit her when I got back. 5 kids under 11 years old by yourself for a week would drive me nuts! I'd sure love to slay some tall timber before I kick off. I've got time I guess... All the kids will be in high school when I'm in my mid-forties. By then they won't want me around anyway.


----------



## Gologit

bitzer said:


> I bet. My wife means well, but if I really took off for a week I think I'd have to commit her when I got back. 5 kids under 11 years old by yourself for a week would drive me nuts! I'd sure love to slay some tall timber before I kick off. I've got time I guess... All the kids will be in high school when I'm in my mid-forties. By then they won't want me around anyway.



Well darn. I was already figuring what I could tie to when I lowered you over the canyon wall on a rope.:msp_biggrin:


----------



## HuskStihl

Gologit said:


> Well darn. I was already figuring what I could tie to when I lowered you over the canyon wall on a rope.:msp_biggrin:



That is a high honor. Bitz, I'm 10 yrs older but have 4 kids under 11. I just figured out what causes them, pm me and I'll let you know where babies come from!


----------



## bitzer

Gologit said:


> Well darn. I was already figuring what I could tie to when I lowered you over the canyon wall on a rope.:msp_biggrin:



Well, if you've already got me figured into the sale.... :msp_rolleyes:


----------



## bitzer

HuskStihl said:


> That is a high honor. Bitz, I'm 10 yrs older but have 4 kids under 11. I just figured out what causes them, pm me and I'll let you know where babies come from!



That damn stork right? Or the mailman maybe? Yeah its got to be the mailman. They all kind of look like him.


----------



## bitzer

Rounder said:


> Nice pics Joe. A guy could work a lifetime if all the ground was that nice.
> 
> Hope all's well - Sam



Hey Sam- any time you want to retire to the flats let me know! You can cut 100" pulp right? :msp_biggrin:


----------



## 056 kid

bitzer said:


> Paccity- Nice pictures, looks like fun!
> 
> My wife gave me the go ahead to take a week off and fall some PNW big sticks. Anyone got a couple of strips for me?



I know where we can dump a few before anyone will know their gone..


----------



## dooby

Eccentric said:


> There's a few left..........but they're almost all penned up in parks.



We can log there, too. Right before we head to the next planet,LOL.:greenchainsaw: Am of to saw camp for the week. Everyone be safe !!!


----------



## RandyMac




----------



## treeslayer2003

once again beautiful pics randy


----------



## RVALUE

056 kid said:


> I know where we can dump a few before anyone will know their gone..




When I was in Idaho, working on a house fairly far out, there was some logging going on along the county road on the way in there.

The Homeowner (yuppie frontiersman) came in one day all hyped up as he had helped the loggers buck some logs out of the road. 

A few days later you've never seen a hotter dude as the loggers had moved onto his place. 

Seems they just logged their way along, with everyone thinking they had permission.  Never did hear the end of that story, though. 

Tarry On.


----------



## tramp bushler

Hey Bitz; you can come up hereand buck some blowdown with me. Ground is pretty good. If ya don't mind standing 15' up 
Turning loose a 28" 40' log. Mynew 390 is working real well. Took a week or so t get used to the L W. Oregon bar. But it sure is nice and light. . We r getting about 25 k' a day cut and logged just the 2 of us. Not too bad for 2 , 53 year holds. My legs are starting to get in shape. I'm burning 6+7 tanks a day. 
I know that ain't much but there is lots of climbing around and thru letting things down then pulling and sorting. 1 cutter. 1 shovel logger. Dan limbs and bucks also when he gets stuff pulled out. He's burning 2 tanks a day. 372 , 32" . I do our chains when we get in at night. Semi skip Stihl chisel ground. Simington 451 . I'm running 36" . Both with 8 tooth.


----------



## tramp bushler

I've got a bunch of pics and short vids but the wireless here won't let me go to p bucket. . The spruce is act. 34" where I'm bucking the root. Leaving the long butt on the root. 3-4 40's long 
Some of its pretty spooky. 
Should be done in a week.


----------



## northmanlogging

stay safe tramp, them blow down patches can be a nightmare.


----------



## Rounder

bitzer said:


> Hey Sam- any time you want to retire to the flats let me know! You can cut 100" pulp right? :msp_biggrin:



I'll cut whatever, wherever....as long as there are trout nearby Bob.

Glenn- 390's are pretty sporty aren't they? Stay safe in that damn blow down.

Have a good, safe week - Sam


----------



## roberte

tramp bushler said:


> I do our chains when we get in at night. Semi skip Stihl chisel ground. Simington 451 . I'm running 36" . Both with 8 tooth.



If your doing the chains does that mean Dan is cooking?


----------



## treeslayer2003

good ta hear from ya tramp, we startin ta worry. stay safe man.


----------



## Trx250r180

limbed some cedars ,nice view from up there ,nothing as high as tramp posts, but i'm a rookie stillView attachment 298413
View attachment 298414
View attachment 298415
View attachment 298416
View attachment 298417


----------



## bustedup

Good your ok Tramp was wondering if ya was ok


----------



## Trx250r180

bustedup said:


> Good your ok Tramp was wondering if ya was ok



when i was up there i kept thinking of those pics he posted not long ago ,he was 3-4 times higher than i was ,i was maybe 35 feet up or so ,i have a lot of respect for that guy ,wouldn't catch me taking a tree down in sections from that tall up


----------



## bustedup

trx250r180 said:


> when i was up there i kept thinking of those pics he posted not long ago ,he was 3-4 times higher than i was ,i was maybe 35 feet up or so ,i have a lot of respect for that guy ,wouldn't catch me taking a tree down in sections from that tall up



I agree takes a lot of guts and skill to climb like Tramp ......I get up round 30-40' and that high enough (less I wear diapers lol)


----------



## bitzer

056 kid said:


> I know where we can dump a few before anyone will know their gone..



####in A! Lets do it! I'll buy lunch and the beer.


----------



## bitzer

RandyMac said:


>



Randy - are these currently out on bid????


----------



## bitzer

Glen! Good to hear you're doing well. Can't wait to see some pics. Are you runnin that 390 stock or did you open er up a bit? It sounds like you're havin some fun. I'd love to get schooled on how to work a big blowdown patch. I've done some, but I'll bet it gets pretty interesting in tall timber. 


Sam- Theres a couple in Lake Michigan, but that's a different type of fishing. To the west and north of me there are trout streams a plenty. That and we've got twice as many lakes as the state that claims they have 10,000.


----------



## Hddnis

trx250r180 said:


> limbed some cedars ,nice view from up there ,nothing as high as tramp posts, but i'm a rookie stillView attachment 298413
> View attachment 298414
> View attachment 298415
> View attachment 298416
> View attachment 298417





Manlifts are for wimps.:hmm3grin2orange:

But they sure are a quick easy way to make money.

On a conifer unless you are spike climbing them and taking them down a lift is about the only way to bid competative and still make money. Shooting a line into them and working SRT is ok, but takes three times as long at least. 

Nice pics!



Mr. HE


----------



## Trx250r180

Hddnis said:


> Manlifts are for wimps.:hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> But they sure are a quick easy way to make money.
> 
> On a conifer unless you are spike climbing them and taking them down a lift is about the only way to bid competative and still make money. Shooting a line into them and working SRT is ok, but takes three times as long at least.
> 
> Nice pics!
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. HE



i bought that when i was building my house from a friend of mine ,was cheaper to buy one then to rent one for as long as i needed it for ,comes in handy around the property ,goes 37 feet up,has a 2 man bucket so can pack lot of tools up when working ,has ground controls so can double as a crane ,iv'e lifted double truss' with it and even a small building ,speeds production at least 3-4 times over climbing i would think, you can push the trees over with the hydrolics too ,machines 11,500 lbs so makes a good anchor


----------



## Hddnis

trx250r180 said:


> i bought that when i was building my house from a friend of mine ,was cheaper to buy one then to rent one for as long as i needed it for ,comes in handy around the property ,goes 37 feet up,has a 2 man bucket so can pack lot of tools up when working ,has ground controls so can double as a crane ,iv'e lifted double truss' with it and even a small building ,speeds production at least 3-4 times over climbing i would think, you can push the trees over with the hydrolics too ,machines 11,500 lbs so makes a good anchor





Really handy machine to have around for sure. Owning one is even better. Those straight booms have a lot of side reach which makes them very useful.

I borrowed one from a neighbor once to trim the dead limbs out of the d. firs lining my driveway. He warned me that it sometimes just died for no reason so I put my saddle and climbing rope in the basket and used them to escape a few times. You'd let the machine sit for a half hour and it would start up and work just fine for a few more hours. lol


Mr. HE


----------



## Metals406

Hddnis said:


> Really handy machine to have around for sure. Owning one is even better. Those straight booms have a lot of side reach which makes them very useful.
> 
> I borrowed one from a neighbor once to trim the dead limbs out of the d. firs lining my driveway. He warned me that it sometimes just died for no reason so I put my saddle and climbing rope in the basket and used them to escape a few times. You'd let the machine sit for a half hour and it would start up and work just fine for a few more hours. lol
> 
> 
> Mr. HE



I have about 8 kertrillion hours in snorkle booms. . . They're very handy.

On climbing down -- you know they have an emergency battery down feature right?


----------



## Trx250r180

Metals406 said:


> I have about 8 kertrillion hours in snorkle booms. . . They're very handy.
> 
> On climbing down -- you know they have an emergency battery down feature right?



mine has that emergency thing ,i can hear a little motor turning but nothing happens ,i should probly see whats going on with that,may need it someday ,its died a couple times on me up in the air ,any little bit of water in the fuel seems to find the carb on the lil wisconsin


----------



## Metals406

trx250r180 said:


> mine has that emergency thing ,i can hear a little motor turning but nothing happens ,i should probly see whats going on with that,may need it someday ,its died a couple times on me up in the air ,any little bit of water in the fuel seems to find the carb on the lil wisconsin



I've had to shimmy down a 60' boom once, cause the emergency feature wasn't working. You only want to do that one time, trust me. The pucker factor is an easy EF 5. :msp_razz:


----------



## Hddnis

Metals406 said:


> I have about 8 kertrillion hours in snorkle booms. . . They're very handy.
> 
> On climbing down -- you know they have an emergency battery down feature right?




Yep, this one had that feature.

That feature was broken.

I got up to the full height, working about sixty feet up and the neighbor stopped by to thank me for fixing it, he said "I've never been able to get the third stage on the boom to extend.":msp_unsure:



Mr. HE


----------



## Hddnis

trx250r180 said:


> mine has that emergency thing ,i can hear a little motor turning but nothing happens ,i should probly see whats going on with that,may need it someday ,its died a couple times on me up in the air ,any little bit of water in the fuel seems to find the carb on the lil wisconsin





There are two ways to get down without the engine running. One is that little pump kicks in and build up system pressure which opens the pressure activated safety valve on the boom lift. The other way is to use a wrench and open the manual bypass on the safety valve. The latter of course requires someone to be on the ground with access to the cylinder itself.

The one I borrowed had the wisconsin v-4 motor in it. It had an electric fuel pump that fed the carb through the engine cam driven pump. Overall it was a good machine that just needed a little TLC, a few new wires and a leaky tire patched. It is one of many Wisconsin motors I've dealt with that would run fine for a time and then just die, but you could restart a short time later. I've heard it is vapor lock of some sort in the carb and intake that can be fixed, but I don't know the secret for that fix and have always just replaced the whole motor with a new Briggs or Perkins diesel. Life is too short to fight your money making tools. (Yeah right) Lol




Mr. HE


----------



## Trx250r180

Hddnis said:


> There are two ways to get down without the engine running. One is that little pump kicks in and build up system pressure which opens the pressure activated safety valve on the boom lift. The other way is to use a wrench and open the manual bypass on the safety valve. The latter of course requires someone to be on the ground with access to the cylinder itself.
> 
> The one I borrowed had the wisconsin v-4 motor in it. It had an electric fuel pump that fed the carb through the engine cam driven pump. Overall it was a good machine that just needed a little TLC, a few new wires and a leaky tire patched. It is one of many Wisconsin motors I've dealt with that would run fine for a time and then just die, but you could restart a short time later. I've heard it is vapor lock of some sort in the carb and intake that can be fixed, but I don't know the secret for that fix and have always just replaced the whole motor with a new Briggs or Perkins diesel. Life is too short to fight your money making tools. (Yeah right) Lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. HE



i think the way i got down was crank the engine over off the starter ,and that was enough to get the pump enough to let me down ,that little skid steer has the same wisconsin vh4d the snorkel does ,if my forklifts run out of propane ,i can do the same thing to get the mast up off the ground ,its hard on the starter motor ,but better than doing a batman slide down the mast :msp_biggrin:


----------



## paccity

Hddnis said:


> Manlifts are for wimps.:hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> But they sure are a quick easy way to make money.
> 
> On a conifer unless you are spike climbing them and taking them down a lift is about the only way to bid competative and still make money. Shooting a line into them and working SRT is ok, but takes three times as long at least.
> 
> Nice pics!
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. HE



yup. have a 55 altec in the back for just such things. i'll fly that every time over climbing.


----------



## Metals406

Funnest one I was in was an 80' Genie -- sticked that baby all the way out and straight up on a windy day. Bout enough to make you poo, specially saying it was on a road cut into a hillside, so the fill-slope made it look even taller. :msp_w00t:


----------



## tramp bushler

roberte said:


> If your doing the chains does that mean Dan is cooking?



Unfortunately,,,, No. But sometimes his wife sends extra lunch. . Like homemade pizza or fresh halibut+ dungeness crab salad samwiges. Dan and I got a 203 lb.halibut on Memorial day. And a bunch of dungies


----------



## HuskStihl

Hey TB, glad to see u'r staying safe, and sorry if I missed it, how's the new saw treating you? I bet u'r in some crazy ####, and hope you got a few pics


----------



## tramp bushler

Rounder said:


> I'll cut whatever, wherever....as long as there are trout nearby Bob.
> 
> Glenn- 390's are pretty sporty aren't they? Stay safe in that damn blow down.
> 
> Have a good, safe week - Sam




Ya, I like the 390 . But there are only 3 improvements it has over the 288 well maybe 4 . 
1, the tank is protected from throwing the. Chain.
2 the trigger
3 the handle bars are about a half inch further apart
4 snap top filter cover. 
But it don't out cut the 288 . Vibrates about the same except the trigger. . Burns the same amount of fuel. I like the dogs better. 
I may get it juiced when I'm done here. But I want to get an XPG model and put the wires on a full wrap handle. 
Hey Nate ; can Weber spray that rhino liner stuff over the heated handle wires?????


----------



## Metals406

tramp bushler said:


> Ya, I like the 390 . But there are only 3 improvements it has over the 288 well maybe 4 .
> 1, the tank is protected from throwing the. Chain.
> 2 the trigger
> 3 the handle bars are about a half inch further apart
> 4 snap top filter cover.
> But it don't out cut the 288 . Vibrates about the same except the trigger. . Burns the same amount of fuel. I like the dogs better.
> I may get it juiced when I'm done here. But I want to get an XPG model and put the wires on a full wrap handle.
> Hey Nate ; can Weber spray that rhino liner stuff over the heated handle wires?????



Not sure Glen? I know it comes out of the gun at like 180°, so not too bad, and it's cooled quite a bit once it's flung through the air.

Rod is currently doing night shift at a local machine/fab shop -- so the handles are on hold, besides current inventory stocked up.

I reckon doing one handle would be cost prohibitive though. Yer best bet would be to try Herculiner. There's a fancy pants gun you can get for that stuff for under $50 I think? And then you can have it to spray other stuff later too.


----------



## Trx250r180

couple ugly stump coos cuts to show how the holding wood ends up ,i haven't seen any posted ,so here's a couple leaner alders ,they were small trees so my line up cuts weren't the greatest, the first pic fits on top of the rh ones View attachment 298702
View attachment 298707
View attachment 298708


----------



## Metals406

Brian, I think those would be considered triangle back cuts. . . A Coos is "T" shaped and cut in with the bar tip.

Kinda like the 1/4 cut, but without the vertical offset.


----------



## HuskStihl

Ok I can't take it any more. Is the triangle cut a coos bay or not??!:msp_biggrin:


----------



## Trx250r180

Metals406 said:


> Brian, I think those would be considered triangle back cuts. . . A Coos is "T" shaped and cut in with the bar tip.
> 
> Kinda like the 1/4 cut, but without the vertical offset.



there is 2 versions of the coos cut ,triangle and T so we are both correct , Gologit posted a pic a few days ago somewhere of both styles








found it here's the diagram


----------



## Metals406

Ah hell, who knows? 

It's always been my understanding that the triangle backcut was different, and what differentiated the 'Coos Bay' was either a straight line of hold wood through the heart and sapwood on both sides (Like for Single Stemming), or a straight line with a hinge across the face (T shape).

:dunno:


----------



## jrcat

opcorn:


----------



## Trx250r180

Metals406 said:


> Ah hell, who knows?
> 
> It's always been my understanding that the triangle backcut was different, and what differentiated the 'Coos Bay' was either a straight line of hold wood through the heart and sapwood on both sides (Like for Single Stemming), or a straight line with a hinge across the face (T shape).
> 
> :dunno:



there's just 2 different variations of the coos ,the T one seems harder to me ,maybe in big timber may be easier ,the triangle one takes little thinking for me ,nip nip drop ,less chance of nicking the holding wood also


----------



## Metals406

I don't mess with any of them. . . Not even a face cut. . . Who needs those dumb things? :msp_sneaky:


----------



## tramp bushler

So, lived thru another one. Had a good day. Got 30-40 thousand in the deck today. Even had to fall 6 or 8 of them. Got a nice big little fatty cleaned out around. Might have to beat it up the hill.


----------



## Gologit

Metals406 said:


> Ah hell, who knows?
> 
> It's always been my understanding that the triangle backcut was different, and what differentiated the 'Coos Bay' was either a straight line of hold wood through the heart and sapwood on both sides (Like for Single Stemming), or a straight line with a hinge across the face (T shape).
> 
> :dunno:



There are so many different definitions of so many different things concerning logging that it's a wonder that anybody can communicate with anybody else.

Names and lingo and slang vary geographically state to state and sometimes in different parts of the same state. Sometimes they're different from drainage to drainage. 

Some companies even have their own slang. I was running a job for an outfit I hadn't been with very long. I needed a blade so I called the shop and had them send one up to me. By "blade" I meant a road grader...that's what I'd always heard them called. When the lowbed showed up it had a D-6 with an angle blade on it. To them a blade was a Cat. I went ahead and used the Cat for what I'd planned for the grader (yeah, yeah, I know...only sissies backblade, but it was all I had) but the next time I made sure what I was ordering and what I was getting were the same thing.

The Coos Bay cut has more than two variations and a pretty good case could be made for any of them. Just 'cause me or RandyMac or 2dogs or Redprospector or Bitzer or any of the other guys that make a living with a saw use something and call it something doesn't mean it's written in stone. Look around a little, gather information from wherever you can and use what works. And if you find a better way...please let us all know.

I've always favored the Triangle...mostly because I seem to match my cuts better with it. 'Course there are some days when I couldn't match my cuts if I had a laser pointer, a painted line to follow, and a blueprint. Happens.


----------



## bitzer

Yeah its hard to talk in falling lingo and I stole most of the names from the PNW guys! No one understands what I'm saying around here. Face? Whats a face? Its a notch here. You start talking notchs and faces and this and that and it gets awfully confusing pretty quick. Much easier to show...

T-handle style on a red oak from weeks ago. Left the heart wood. Wide open face. Set up that maple in front of it to slow it down. You can tell how much it was leaning when it rolls over. Didn't busted this one up at all, which would have been easy considering. No sound because crappy cell video. 
[video=youtube;jDUNJM30ZoY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDUNJM30ZoY[/video]

T-style with the heart gutted.





Triangle on an ash. Made it to the hinge in time.





Fence line red oak leaning WAY out. The back cut was about eye level. Wide face and heart nip. Rocks and corks don't mix.






View attachment 298849

View attachment 298850

View attachment 298852


----------



## Trx250r180

whats the purpose of gutting the heart ? haven't seen that done around here


----------



## Metals406

trx250r180 said:


> whats the purpose of gutting the heart ? haven't seen that done around here



Another way to discourage chairing. . . No heart means the tree doesn't have a straight line across the stump to line up with any straight grain that might want to pop on ya.

Back east, it's also used for veneer grade, so no fiber pulls out'a the butt. They also cut them off as close to the dirt as they can.


----------



## bustedup

just to be even more confusing lol ya can also gut the hinge without the heart lol.


Over here they cut very low to lol which depending on species brings root flare etc into play but every area seems to have it's own "way" lol 


Hey maybe the universal translator of star trek would help everyone understand each other lol


----------



## bitzer

trx250r180 said:


> whats the purpose of gutting the heart ? haven't seen that done around here



For me its to discourage fiber pull, but what Metals said goes too. If you've got a hard leaning tree you want to remove as much compression wood as possible.


----------



## paccity

this one i gutted to try and limit the fiberpull.


trx250r180 said:


> whats the purpose of gutting the heart ? haven't seen that done around here


----------



## twochains

bitzer said:


> Yeah its hard to talk in falling lingo and I stole most of the names from the PNW guys! No one understands what I'm saying around here. Face? Whats a face? Its a notch here. You start talking notchs and faces and this and that and it gets awfully confusing pretty quick. Much easier to show...
> 
> T-handle style on a red oak from weeks ago. Left the heart wood. Wide open face. Set up that maple in front of it to slow it down. You can tell how much it was leaning when it rolls over. Didn't busted this one up at all, which would have been easy considering. No sound because crappy cell video.
> [video=youtube;jDUNJM30ZoY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDUNJM30ZoY[/video]
> 
> T-style with the heart gutted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Triangle on an ash. Made it to the hinge in time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fence line red oak leaning WAY out. The back cut was about eye level. Wide face and heart nip. Rocks and corks don't mix.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 298849
> 
> View attachment 298850
> 
> View attachment 298852



Nice work bitzer! I wish I could see how you set up that coos bay.


----------



## tramp bushler

Got in another one. Had a spruce today that had 6290 board feet Scribner in it. Y'all hopefully will be glad to know that we videoed it. . Will get the vid up as soon as I can. . Lots of heavy breathing  .


----------



## Metals406

tramp bushler said:


> Got in another one. Had a spruce today that had 6290 board feet Scribner in it. Y'all hopefully will be glad to know that we videoed it. . Will get the vid up as soon as I can. . Lots of heavy breathing  .



I ain't never laid steel to a 6 bushel tree. . . Maybe some day? :msp_wub:


----------



## dooby

Metals406 said:


> I ain't never laid steel to a 6 bushel tree. . . Maybe some day? :msp_wub:



Hows that song go ? Go north to Ala_ _ _!:chainsawguy:


----------



## tramp bushler

Well boys ; and girl. I got er done. Safe and sound. Nothin major broke. I'm setting in the Juneau airport right now getting ready to check in my fish box on Alaska for the flight to Anchorage.


----------



## bitzer

Glad to hear all went well Glen! Can't wait so see some pics!

Beech, Maple, and Hickory. 8s, 10s, and 12s. Average load is about 1200bf.





Standing on the clutch and brake on this hill.





The landing this morning. Pulpin sucks! Pulp cash is nice though. There is somewhere between 50-60 cords of pulp and 10-12mbf or so. It was supposed to rain today so I told my wife she could go to work. Not raining now of course. 





Came down the hill loaded up and the driver was just pullin in. He can toss er off a little faster than I can. 






View attachment 299839

View attachment 299834

View attachment 299835

View attachment 299836


----------



## bitzer

5 12s in this basswood. Stretched out pretty nice.






Put a block face in this maple to keep it from the road. I was going to put a snipe in her, but I figured what the hell try for maximum steerage. 






Faceless coos bay on a white oak. I can't remember if this is in Gerald's book or Doug's. This was my first attempt and I kind of sallied it. A brand new Cannon was giving me visions of folding the tip over, but I figured this was an ideal situation to try it on. Worked like a charm and took only seconds. Yeah its only about 15" on the stump, but the tree was like a rainbow. Very easy to chair. All right give me the crap on the no face! Haha






Sizwel on a red oak. It was leaning way over the boundry. 






Just kept er in. Blue line is the boundry.







View attachment 299840

View attachment 299841

View attachment 299842

View attachment 299843

View attachment 299844


----------



## treeslayer2003

great pics bitz, beech jus saw right? soft maple? hey i'v cut plenty of trees with no notch.[tell no one] love the packer back, was wonderin weather or not ya load truck with it. I still don't know bout that sizwheel thing, but fine work any how.


----------



## treeslayer2003

glad you back tramp. I bet it'll be good ta get home.


----------



## bustedup

nice cuts bitz .......it a bit diff you not using a face lol


----------



## tramp bushler




----------



## bitzer

treeslayer2003 said:


> great pics bitz, beech jus saw right? soft maple? hey i'v cut plenty of trees with no notch.[tell no one] love the packer back, was wonderin weather or not ya load truck with it. I still don't know bout that sizwheel thing, but fine work any how.



Yeah the beech goes for sawlogs and firewood. The pulp mill allows only so many sticks per axle. I do load crib trailers with the machine. That truck is the lumber mill's. They haul the logs and its up to me to truck the pulp. There are a couple of sticks of soft maple, but mostly hard maple. The sizwel exposes the fibers of the hinge on your pull side allowing the fibers to bend (instead of breaking) giving the tree more time on the stump to pull around.


----------



## bitzer

Nice pic Tramp! What type of wood was all on the job? Spruce I'm guessing? I have a vague knowledge of what you guys all have out there.


----------



## Metals406

tramp bushler said:


>



That's my kinda timber right there!


----------



## treeslayer2003

yup, tramp was busy. bitz, ain't it a shame there's no grade beech. we are over run with it.


----------



## jrcat

treeslayer2003 said:


> yup, tramp was busy. bitz, ain't it a shame there's no grade beech. we are over run with it.



Up to $1400 a load here for blockin and tie logs on the beech but thats it.


----------



## tramp bushler

bitzer said:


> Nice pic Tramp! What type of wood was all on the job? Spruce I'm guessing? I have a vague knowledge of what you guys all have out there.



Sitka spruce and Western Hemlock. 
I finally got some semi consistent cell service. . I'm in the Anchorage Airport at the moment.


----------



## bustedup

tramp bushler said:


> Sitka spruce and Western Hemlock.
> I finally got some semi consistent cell service. . I'm in the Anchorage Airport at the moment.



Ya feel better being home then???


----------



## Metals406

treeslayer2003 said:


> yup, tramp was busy. bitz, ain't it a shame there's no grade beech. we are over run with it.



Well, someone should make a market for it then. Don't they log the pizz out'a Beech in Germany?

Wasting timber is nothin' new. Back in the 1970's my dad said he laid down some nice wood to rot, like white pine, etc. Not grade stuff, but they wanted it out'a the units. 

Now they'd pay a healthy price for it.


----------



## tramp bushler




----------



## tramp bushler

bustedup said:


> Ya feel better being home then???



Heck. I'm still 200 miles from home.


----------



## tramp bushler




----------



## Metals406

WOW Glen!! You weren't kidding about that being a blow down unit. 

Some of them standing Hemlock ain't lookin' real good either.


----------



## Trx250r180

how you getting the logs out of there ?


----------



## tramp bushler

We've got the subgrade in for the truck road. . Dan's going to swing them with the shovel to the landing then load them from there



The butt log will pay for my entire travel and cutting cost
Its a 40'10", 40" small end. Scribner is 3,000 board feet . The heart is centered and it has no defect or limbs. More than 12 rings per inch. It was 5' across the stump.


----------



## mdavlee

Nice pictures Glen. I sure would like to lay into a few that size just once.


----------



## tramp bushler

I didn't trim ore the stump pull. As I didn't pull the guts out of it. Ya don't be ruining the best log on the claim. . I saved it out to 96' the breeze was blowing off and on from left to right. If I brought it too much to the left Iwould have messed up what we had decked there and busted it at 75-80' . Course a good puff had to come as it was taking off.


----------



## treeslayer2003

makes me think of soft wood different. almost no taper, amazing.


----------



## tramp bushler

See what got up loaded 


.



.
.



.
.


----------



## treeslayer2003

that you tramp? how do ya like them eye protectors? I forever getting chips in the eye.


----------



## northmanlogging

That's some damn fine work tramp. Makes me want to start looking for work in Alaska.


----------



## tramp bushler

. 



Western hemlock . The top was blown out of it. 

I know that my photography leaves a lot to be desired. But We don't get paid to take pictures


----------



## paccity

northmanlogging said:


> That's some damn fine work tramp. Makes me want to start looking for work in Alaska.



it's there if you want it.


----------



## dooby

tramp bushler said:


> See what got up loaded
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> .
> .
> 
> 
> 
> .
> .


Why aren't you smilin'? does it have to do w/ one butt log payin' for you!LOL. Just kiddin'. Nice job!!!!


----------



## paccity

nice glen , did it feel good getting in to it again.


----------



## tramp bushler

I like the Bugs. They have stainless steel mesh so they don't rust. They make them in 10,20+30 mesh. These are the 30 and they keep everything out but are kind of dark. The 20 is a pretty good compromise but you can't look into your sawdust.


----------



## Metals406

Ya know, it's that kinda wood where a guy can cut a long time, and if he's careful, he only has to worry bout his chain get'n a little wood dull.

Cept down by the devilish root plates. 

It's funny, a guys just tooling along and sees some dirt in his buck and thinks, "Crap, this'll fer sure make me change out." LOL It's like I try to get a record on each chain for how long I can make it last. 

Like my pard Cody always says, "I hate fricken grinding chain!" LOL


----------



## treeslayer2003

I gotta get some. so humid here, glasses fog quick. that is some pretty work.


----------



## tramp bushler

paccity said:


> nice glen , did it feel good getting in to it again.



Oh ya.


----------



## northmanlogging

paccity said:


> it's there if you want it.



got deep roots where I'm at... not sure I could just up and leave like I used to. Its in my head now... we'll see what the next few years bring, hoping to go logging full time anyways. War dept. gave the go ahead as long I'm not fishing... mentioned something about being a camp cookie...


----------



## paccity

northmanlogging said:


> got deep roots where I'm at... not sure I could just up and leave like I used to. Its in my head now... we'll see what the next few years bring, hoping to go logging full time anyways. War dept. gave the go ahead as long I'm not fishing... mentioned something about being a camp cookie...



the bubble might burst in a couple years.:msp_smile:


----------



## rwoods

treeslayer2003 said:


> I gotta get some. so humid here, glasses fog quick. that is some pretty work.



Highly recommended by this firewood hack that sweats buckets. Ron


----------



## tramp bushler

The last tree I fell on the sale. Got a 33 39 + a 33-34 out of it. It was 48" across the stump. 
It had a real crooked limb top.


----------



## bitzer

Awesome Pics Glen! Man that makes me want to chase the tall sticks. Nice work! Those big spruce look like they are fun to cut.

Yeah those bugz kick ass. I've been wearing the same 20 mesh ones for a year and a half now. If you're laying out looking east in the morning it can be kinda tough to see whats flying back at ya though. Otherwise I never cut without em.


----------



## tramp bushler

dooby said:


> Why aren't you smilin'? does it have to do w/ one butt log payin' for you!LOL. Just kiddin'. Nice job!!!!




No. He is the one taking all the financial risk. It was a real good job. . Dan got smashed by a tree 20 years ago or so. His right leg is fused in his ankle and knee. 
He is a great hand and works a lot more in all he does. But he is kinda hindered climbing around in the brush. We work real well together. . When I'm sitting there panting he doesn't prod me to jump and run. 

Our plan for this unit was to get it cut and decked with no one getting hurt and nothing getting broke. God blessed us and we had no serious injuries only broke a couple hyd fittings and I broke my bar. Had a 22" spruce cut slam it hard and one side broke and the chain got kinda pretzel ed and ripped in half.


----------



## dooby

*Just Teasin'*



tramp bushler said:


> No. He is the one taking all the financial risk. It was a real good job. . Dan got smashed by a tree 20 years ago or so. His right leg is fused in his ankle and knee.
> He is a great hand and works a lot more in all he does. But he is kinda hindered climbing around in the brush. We work real well together. . When I'm sitting there panting he doesn't prod me to jump and run.
> 
> Our plan for this unit was to get it cut and decked with no one getting hurt and nothing getting broke. God blessed us and we had no serious injuries only broke a couple hyd fittings and I broke my bar. Had a 22" spruce cut slam it hard and one side broke and the chain got kinda pretzel ed and ripped in half.



Working safe and together is the only way-Did't mean any disrespect, for sure. I broke my knee all by myself on Sat.. But i wasn't Loggin'. Trees like that always have a way of puttin' a grin on a fellers face, Good Job!:msp_smile:


----------



## Metals406

dooby said:


> Working safe and together is the only way-Did't mean any disrespect, for sure. I broke my knee all by myself on Sat.. But i wasn't Loggin'. Trees like that always have a way of puttin' a grin on a fellers face, Good Job!:msp_smile:



Broke your knee?


----------



## dooby

fractured the top of the shinbone and tore some of the meniscus. Snooping at the arch. in an old building. Elevator got re-moved .


----------



## forestryworks

*Black Hills*

Took a trip to the Black Hills of SD last week. It is one of the most heavily logged national forests in the Rockies. Lots of short logs. I mean, pecker poles. 

Pretty country, but the towns are too developed and commercialized for me. I like my mountain towns to have a little wildness in them. Didn't like seeing an abundance of Smooth Bromegrass there though. I guess you can always count on county roads departments to keep introducing invasive species :bang:


----------



## jrcat

I like living in an economically stunted area. To cheap to plant invasive species lol.


----------



## dooby

dooby said:


> fractured the top of the shinbone and tore some of the meniscus. Snooping at the arch. in an old building. Elevator got re-moved .



twochains-You trying to be funnny:msp_mad: Marking the like button when i fall down! What is the meaning of thisLOL.


----------



## forestryworks

I've got a "big cottonwood" to fall in the next week or so. Went and looked at it this morning, and the power company had topped it down to 25'. Not much to play with. Probably 40"+ on the stump. We'll see what happens with the ol' 066.


----------



## tramp bushler

Mobile Photobucket Mobile Photobucket

See what this is


----------



## tramp bushler

http://m1087.photobucket.com/albumview/albums/gumboot4581/photobucket-77801-1371079929123.jpg.html

http://m1087.photobucket.com/albumview/albums/gumboot4581/photobucket-77801-1371079929123.jpg.html


----------



## HuskStihl

TB, thanks for taking the time to shoot all these pictures and then post them for our enjoyment. That blowdown patch looks like something that would kill me within an afternoon. Looking forward to your giant spruce video. As has been said, you need to set up a youtube account, upload it there, right click the video and copy the link, click the insert video box at the top of the post, then paste the address into the box where they ask for it. Should show up in the preview post for you to see. I've been waiting for you to post yours before I post mine. I wouldn't want you to have too much competition:msp_biggrin: (that was a joke, I'm not qualified to even pack your stuff)


----------



## tramp bushler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhWaW0DTaWI&feature=youtube_gdata_player


----------



## mdavlee

tramp bushler said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhWaW0DTaWI&feature=youtube_gdata_player



Glen it's set to private. You'll need to go back and change it to public so we can all watch it:msp_thumbup:


----------



## tramp bushler

I am trying to find the screen that has that on it with no success. 
But, like beating a fatty up the hill, I'll keep pounding away on er.


----------



## mdavlee

Click on your name in the upper right corner of the screen, then click video manager. It will bring up all the videos. Click on edit and it will pull up the screen like when you were uploading it. On the right there's a drop down box that will say private. If you click on it there's 3 choices of public, private, and unlisted.opcorn:


----------



## 1270d

White pine


----------



## tramp bushler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ag6SttEpfQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player


Hope I fixed it. 
I'm about out of space on this phone I have to delete something so I can chop up my fallin vid and get it uploaded. Yt says its to big.


----------



## tramp bushler

Timber falling. Days end - YouTube


----------



## twochains

DAMN!!! That alot of timber to get through! Fricken awesome!


----------



## tramp bushler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOCboWfjqnE&feature=youtube_gdata_player


----------



## bitzer

Glen! Nice work! I see where you're missin the throttle lock on the saw. so does Dave just keep swinging em and moving until he gets the logs decked? I can see how that would work really well in that type of job.


----------



## tramp bushler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOCboWfjqnE&feature=youtube_gdata_player


----------



## Trx250r180

think of how much wood would be on the ground if a stihl was used  




just kidding ,nice work there ,looks a lot like my step dads old john deer shovel in the background ,had the high clearance tracks on it


----------



## Metals406

Nice thing about having a shovel in all that crap, is you can set up the bad ones and he can break'em up for ya.

Besides all the rain, that'd be a super fun job!


----------



## Metals406

bitzer said:


> Glen! Nice work! I see where you're missin the throttle lock on the saw. so does Dave just keep swinging em and moving until he gets the logs decked? I can see how that would work really well in that type of job.



Leapfrogging, it gets'er done.


----------



## bitzer

Cutting a small job full of big hard maple. The landowner sold off a bunch of their woods like 30 some years ago so along the entire eastern boundry are yards and houses. And its a narrow brushy strip. No room to go anywhere with anything, but the timber is decent. Just tops on top of tops. 


I jacked a few today. This one I didn't have to lift it much, but it had such a big sweep and all the limb weight seemed to be outside of the boundry. 











View attachment 300895

View attachment 300896


----------



## treeslayer2003

is that a tree jack or did you rig that top part? looks like it worked very well. I have never seen that done.


----------



## twochains

Pretty cool there bitzer! Nice looking work!


----------



## bitzer

Its a 30 ton stubby and I welded the plate and pivot on there. The top plate is 1/2" by 6"x 6". The bolt is a 3/4" and its probably the weak spot. It works pretty well though. Heavy as a ##### to pack in. 50 to 60lbs.


----------



## tramp bushler

It took quite a bit of extra time to get good clean bucks off. . But the yard scaleres will shove a sliver into any stump pull and pencil the log that length back. Dan preferred paying for me to do it than loosing export scale.


----------



## tramp bushler

2013-06-06_07-32-56_389.mp4 - YouTube

I hope I don't link duplicates here. Hope everyone likes them. If not. To bad!! . No just kidding.


----------



## twochains

tramp bushler said:


> 2013-06-06_07-32-56_389.mp4 - YouTube
> 
> I hope I don't link duplicates here. Hope everyone likes them. If not. To bad!! . No just kidding.



Nice looking timber! Glen, you camp on site?


----------



## Trx250r180

is this the same kind of shovel you are using Tramp ? View attachment 300905


----------



## tramp bushler

twochains said:


> Nice looking timber! Glen, you camp on site?



No. That's what we call where we leave our gas, spare bar, fallers pack, fallin ax ect


----------



## tramp bushler

trx250r180 said:


> is this the same kind of shovel you are using Tramp ? View attachment 300905



Looks similar from the back. Its just a little old 320L . With a Young jib and live heel/ grapple. It's not overly fast or powerful. But it is the most cost efficient logging I've ever seen. Dan would get 3 days on 25 gal of fuel. . Comes out to somewhere around. ..3 gal. Per thousand board feet. 
Or 25 gal per 75 mbf.


----------



## Trx250r180

tramp bushler said:


> Looks similar from the back. Its just a little old 320L . With a Young jib and live heel/ grapple. It's not overly fast or powerful. But it is the most cost efficient logging I've ever seen. Dan would get 3 days on 25 gal of fuel. . Comes out to somewhere around. ..3 gal. Per thousand board feet.
> Or 25 gal per 75 mbf.



this one says 690el on it ,says young on the front also ,i used this machine to set the glue lam beams in my house ,has a nice reach ,now the logger next door to my shop here owns it ,step dad retired a couple years ago ,was nice having that on the property sometimes


----------



## tramp bushler

Woops. That one was a duplicate .



Hopefully this one is not. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DqIsl_cPP4&feature=youtube_gdata_player


----------



## jrcat

Metals406 said:


> Leapfrogging, it gets'er done.


I have never done shovel logging but have leap frogged a thousand yards of dirt a 1/4 miles with a samsung 240. Had no choice couldnt get trucks to it and it was more efficient than pushing it with a dozer 


trx250r180 said:


> this one says 690el on it ,says young on the front also ,i used this machine to set the glue lam beams in my house ,has a nice reach ,now the logger next door to my shop here owns it ,step dad retired a couple years ago ,was nice having that on the property sometimes



That 320L is a CAT. The company I worked for had a 690Elc excavator with a live thumb on it. We used it in a few blow downs. Made the work a lot safer and easier.


----------



## tramp bushler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceykcuflBk8&feature=youtube_gdata_player


Buckin at the mill with Dan's 3120 Husky . And a smooth chain. 

I broke a chain 8 times. ( I was using 4 new chains) and I think I broke every one at least once. 1 I broke 2 or 3 times


----------



## treeslayer2003

breakin chains? not heard of that since pop had an 056. he put .404 on it.


----------



## HuskStihl

tramp bushler said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceykcuflBk8&feature=youtube_gdata_player
> 
> 
> Buckin at the mill with Dan's 3120 Husky . And a smooth chain.
> 
> I broke a chain 8 times. ( I was using 4 new chains) and I think I broke every one at least once. 1 I broke 2 or 3 times



That saw just keeps chugging and chugging. You sure that wasn't the diesel model? Remind me to stay (get?) on your good side, you handle that 3120 like I handle a 435!


----------



## tramp bushler

Broke all of them with the 390 with an 8 tooth on it. And not overly hungry. But. I got hung up plenty


----------



## tramp bushler

HuskStihl said:


> That saw just keeps chugging and chugging. You sure that wasn't the diesel model? Remind me to stay (get?) on your good side, you handle that 3120 like I handle a 435!



If I was in the brush with that saw it would be more argessive. But a 3120 doesn't start to get heavy until about 4 hours into the day. But they do wear a guy out because where the chain is put up to match the saws power it totally wears a guy out holding it out of the cut. And your always packing it because it cuts so fast.


----------



## HuskStihl

tramp bushler said:


> a 3120 doesn't start to get heavy until about 4 hours into the day.



Maybe for you


----------



## tramp bushler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDbcmqLrEVQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player


----------



## tramp bushler

OK. So I think this is the falling vid. There r 3 parts to it. 
This is the first. It has the best part. Well the first best part. The face. . I use some tricks with it see who can spot them. 
No, my chain isn't cutting that well. It was before I took the last root off before this tree. Oh well, it still cuts. Falling, 1 - YouTube


----------



## tramp bushler

Well, that's weird. The sound is off by 20 seconds and the quality is kinda crappy. Oh well guess I get what I pay for.


----------



## tramp bushler

# 2 I think
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62Ku66NrauU&feature=youtube_gdata_player


----------



## Trx250r180

tramp bushler said:


> # 2 I think
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62Ku66NrauU&feature=youtube_gdata_player



i'm breathing hard just watching you guys pound those wedges ,does anyone ever use a silvey jack on the big stuff up there ?


----------



## HuskStihl

tramp bushler said:


> OK. So I think this is the falling vid. There r 3 parts to it.
> This is the first. It has the best part. Well the first best part. The face. . I use some tricks with it see who can spot them.
> No, my chain isn't cutting that well. It was before I took the last root off before this tree. Oh well, it still cuts. Falling, 1 - YouTube



I thought for sure you were just about to attach a stuffed tigger to that thing you stuck in the face!:msp_biggrin:

When Dan was saying "get your tip up" were you thinking "shut up Dan"?

I was just laughing at how easy you made that face look. You could give me a thousand of those and I'd never make the cuts match like that. Well worth the wait and technical difficulties.

Looked to me you were kerf dutchin on the right to swing it a little left, but I had the sound off.

Good job keeping your thumb wrapped!:msp_biggrin:

That was extremely cool to watch, thanks for taking the time to post this for us.

Respectfully silly,
jon


----------



## HuskStihl

tramp bushler said:


> # 2 I think
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62Ku66NrauU&feature=youtube_gdata_player



That's a lot of wedges! Looked like "whack-a-mole"!


----------



## Metals406

jrcat said:


> I have never done shovel logging but have leap frogged a thousand yards of dirt a 1/4 miles with a samsung 240. Had no choice couldnt get trucks to it and it was more efficient than pushing it with a dozer
> 
> 
> That 320L is a CAT. The company I worked for had a 690Elc excavator with a live thumb on it. We used it in a few blow downs. Made the work a lot safer and easier.



In 2008, I used a CAT 312 CL and leapfrogged a few thousand yards from a building site, down a draw to make a road. It was all granite and decomposed granite (horrible digging).

Not the best way to move dirt, but it did the job.


----------



## Metals406

By God, where's part 3!!?? 

Looks like you still don't have your videos set to public Glen -- more like unlisted. Not sure if that's what you're shoot'n for?

That Spruce was being a sky bound jerk, or as my SIL would say, a "Fah-Jerk'. :msp_wink:


----------



## jrcat

Metals406 said:


> In 2008, I used a CAT 312 CL and leapfrogged a few thousand yards from a building site, down a draw to make a road. It was all granite and decomposed granite (horrible digging).
> 
> Not the best way to move dirt, but it did the job.



Yeah it isnt exactly ideal but it works in a bind. I found the best way to do is to get right on top of the pile and stay there and just keep shuffling the material back.


----------



## tramp bushler

trx250r180 said:


> i'm breathing hard just watching you guys pound those wedges ,does anyone ever use a silvey jack on the big stuff up there ?



. Ya know how Donald Rumsfeld said "you go to war with the army you have " . Not the one you wish you had. 
Well. I had to fall this tree with the tools I had on hand. Not what I wish I had. . This tree scaled out at 6,290' and is worth 4-6,000 $ at the sortin yard. It was worth the work. 

This tree wasn't big enough to warrant a jack. But if Dan would get a good 5£ rafting ax. 3 banana Ramas and 4 12" Hard Heads. It would make my life easier. For sure.


----------



## tramp bushler

OK, so here's one of the tricks. When you have a largeish face your putting in. Once you get it cut up enough so your not going to be bothering it. . Find some little straight limb or berry bush and shove it up in there. . Than way when you gets it all cut up you just give it a push and the face just rolls out. . If you use a wedge then you gotta go, bend over and root around to pick it up. Plus half the time they fall down in a hole so ya really have to root around, waste time, start cussing, stop cussing. All of which uses up just too much energy.


----------



## northmanlogging

I was loitering in the local saw shop few weeks back and the guy working there mentioned he knew a couple of cutters that only use one of them magnesium wedges to beat wedges with. After seeing that video I'll stick with my axe thank you... granted most of the stuff I deal with is nowhere near that big, I would hate to beat a back leaner over with an awkward and light beating tool.


----------



## HuskStihl

Alright Glen, enough's enough. I want to see that bad boy fall! Where is part 3????:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## tramp bushler

I'm up loading it. I joined the working elite again today. Fell a patch that I had been wanting to for a while . I used a Deere 50 Excavator for a wedge today :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## tramp bushler

northmanlogging said:


> I was loitering in the local saw shop few weeks back and the guy working there mentioned he knew a couple of cutters that only use one of them magnesium wedges to beat wedges with. After seeing that video I'll stick with my axe thank you... granted most of the stuff I deal with is nowhere near that big, I would hate to beat a back leaner over with an awkward and light beating tool.



Ya, after pinching nerves in my hand for the 3rd or 4 th time I got rid of my mag wedge. My framing ax doesn't weigh any more than one and it works about a million times better. And it is Cool. :msp_thumbup:


----------



## tramp bushler

See what this does.


----------



## Metals406

tramp bushler said:


> Ya, after pinching nerves in my hand for the 3rd or 4 th time I got rid of my mag wedge. My framing ax doesn't weigh any more than one and it works about a million times better. And it is Cool. :msp_thumbup:



I was actually going to ask you about the rigging axe you use. I framed with a guy who used one all day. They really do make an excellent framing hammer, 28oz and they swing nice and balanced.

They're a 'back east' framing thing, and not a lot of guys use them this way. The bit was actually used as a measuring device for skip sheeting I'm told.

BTW, your video is in fast forward mode -- and it's frick'n hilarious!! You're like the crack spider! 

Remember the fast talking dude from the commercials in the 80's? That's what you got going. :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## tramp bushler

How it was.


----------



## tramp bushler

How it is after the Tramp spent the day there


----------



## tramp bushler

Metals406 said:


> I was actually going to ask you about the rigging axe you use. I framed with a guy who used one all day. They really do make an excellent framing hammer, 28oz and they swing nice and balanced.
> 
> They're a 'back east' framing thing, and not a lot of guys use them this way. The bit was actually used as a measuring device for skip sheeting I'm told.
> 
> BTW, your video is in fast forward mode -- and it's frick'n hilarious!! You're like the crack spider!
> 
> Remember the fast talking dude from the commercials in the 80's? That's what you got going. :hmm3grin2orange:




. I think the Rig builders ax got going in California. At least Larry Hahn said so. . The shingle hatchet started on the east coast. But it works. I've been packing one cutting for goin on 20 years. I used to just pack it in the hammer loop on my Riggin pants. . But that was problematic.


----------



## tramp bushler

Metals406 said:


> I was actually going to ask you about the rigging axe you use. I framed with a guy who used one all day. They really do make an excellent framing hammer, 28oz and they swing nice and balanced.
> 
> They're a 'back east' framing thing, and not a lot of guys use them this way. The bit was actually used as a measuring device for skip sheeting I'm told.
> 
> BTW, your video is in fast forward mode -- and it's frick'n hilarious!! You're like the crack spider!
> 
> Remember the fast talking dude from the commercials in the 80's? That's what you got going. :hmm3grin2orange:




. I think the Rig builders ax got going in California. At least Larry Hahn said so. . The shingle hatchet started on the east coast. But it works. I've been packing one cutting for goin on 20 years. I used to just pack it in the hammer loop on my Riggin pants. . But that was problematic. 
. I used a Plumb for years. But I can't find it. . I prefer the Vaughn. But its similar. I've done a fair amount of framing with them. And I like them. I can set drive 16 D galvies with it in other than bone dry lumber.. and its the cats meow for when I get my tip hung in a limb.


----------



## Metals406

tramp bushler said:


> . I think the Rig builders ax got going in California. At least Larry Hahn said so. . The shingle hatchet started on the east coast. But it works. I've been packing one cutting for goin on 20 years. I used to just pack it in the hammer loop on my Riggin pants. . But that was problematic.
> . I used a Plumb for years. But I can't find it. . I prefer the Vaughn. But its similar. I've done a fair amount of framing with them. And I like them. I can set drive 16 D galvies with it in other than bone dry lumber.. and its the cats meow for when I get my tip hung in a limb.



I watched that dude I framed with hit his thumb full swing one day. Not pretty, and the sound made my stomach turn. :msp_mellow:

They are pretty sweet though. The Vaughn's are pretty common in the stores here -- you won't find one made by Plumb unless it's at a sale or such.


----------



## roberte

Metals406 said:


> I watched that dude I framed with hit his thumb full swing one day. Not pretty, and the sound made my stomach turn. :msp_mellow:
> 
> They are pretty sweet though. The Vaughn's are pretty common in the stores here -- you won't find one made by Plumb unless it's at a sale or such.



I also frame with one, back in 88, an old partner said try it you won't go back to a regular hammer, and I haven't.
The vaunghs are great, the plumbs not so much.


----------



## tramp bushler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3td8SGedWN0&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Well let's see if this is part 3


----------



## tramp bushler

Hip hip hooray!!!!!! 

My wife might take a wedge or 2 to me for the cost of the more than 3 gigs I uploaded. Oh well. Wish me the best..


----------



## bitzer

Damn Tramp you guys had to beat yer brains out on that one! Its almost like there was a plug of wood holding er up somewhere. That's what I would've been thinking at least. Nice looking stump! And your right about the bananas and a 7lber to smash em with. Lift along a slight taper goes a long way. I woulda jacked that one! Plenty big enough for me! Those spruce like to stay sky bound?

How do you keep yer phone from getting destroyed in the rain? Its a smart phone right? I've got this flip phone that is supposed to be waterproof and I'm supposed to be able to run it over with the skidder, but I've gone through four of them in the last year and a half. I did drop it in a toilet once and she survived that with no problems. Don't ask how.


----------



## HuskStihl

I forgot who has the stubby 8lb sledge, but that woulda come in real handy on this one


----------



## Trx250r180

verizon has a a smart phone that's tough and waterproof casio gzone,that's one i have can video under water if you want to with it


----------



## tramp bushler

I put it in a zip lok baggy in a zipped up pocket. But Saturday I need to start on a cell phone holder for my suspenders. 
.
That tree would have lifted a lot faster with a 5£ and Hard Heads. You see how little wood I kept on it. A 3 1/2 £ Jersey ax. Ain't much of an ax. . But. We were lifting close to 40,000 lbs. I had to move the top 16-17' to get it to tip. . . On a tree that's wide enough plenty of the right wedges and a good ax are fine. . 

Jacks are only for if they are really needed.


----------



## Joe46

Brings back bad memories of beating wedges into sky bound bull growth cedars. They weren't worth what that spruce was either:msp_thumbdn:


----------



## bitzer

I've got the G'zone phone. This last one has lasted for 5 or 6 months now. The first three went quickly. Still not impressed with it. When it gets wet from being in my pocket cutting in the rain for hours it takes a while before anyone can hear me talking or I can hear them. Once its dried up its fine though.


Glen- for me I'd take the easy route. Not sure that you had a jack handy, but it sure beats the hell out of beating wedges. Like you said though with the right axe and wedges you can get a lot done. Out of the countless number of trees I've cut I've only jacked twenty or so. 

For those wondering why so many wedges it distributes the pressure more evenly and makes it easier to wedge. When you've got all that room and a lot of wedging to do, use it.

####in A I'm beat. 6 high paced hours to get a job finished up this morning. Just wanted to get out of there and relax for the rest of the day. Now on to an hour of weed whackin and 45 min of lawn mowin on the zero turn.


----------



## tramp bushler

Bob. It must be an Alaskan thing. Any girl can pump on a jack. . Takes a man to pound over a heavy tree. I've jacked a bunch of timber. But like I said this tree didn't need one. . 
Personally I think your 30 ton the way you use it is a crucial part of your falling kit. You have heavy top trees that don't have a big stump. Perfect spot for a jack. I missed out on some 40 ton Duff Norton jacks at an auction in Fairbanks 2 summers ago. Besides. I wanted Dan to beat some wedges. . He's the one that made me fall it up hill.


----------



## Metals406

I like a real heavy head and a shorter handle. I get a long handle and it feels funny, and I usually chip the handle on the back of a wedge -- specially if I'm trying to drive right-to-left (I'm right handed).

I need to finish the damn thing, but I started making a real heavy ass wedge hammer/axe last year. Not sure how much it's gonna weigh in the end, but the striking face is real broad. :msp_thumbsup:

Kind'a looks like Thor's Hammer too -- which is always cool and manly.


----------



## tramp bushler

A 5 pound is about perfect. I like a 36" or longer handle. Like a 42 if I really need a lot of lift.. The problem is lots of heads need to be ground flat and square when they are new. I prefer the rafting pattern to the Dayton. For beating wedges. I am almost completely ambidextrous when swinging an ax. Just born that way. But I never played baseball ect so no one got to ruin me from one side or the other.


----------



## northmanlogging

My southpaw swing is starting to feel stiff... I blame long falls with quick stops... used to be mostly ambidextrious... 

Never had a problem with my short handled 3-1/2 pounder... Then most of my logs are under 36" dia...


----------



## Cfaller

Metals406 said:


> I like a real heavy head and a shorter handle. I get a long handle and it feels funny, and I usually chip the handle on the back of a wedge -- specially if I'm trying to drive right-to-left (I'm right handed).
> 
> I need to finish the damn thing, but I started making a real heavy ass wedge hammer/axe last year. Not sure how much it's gonna weigh in the end, but the striking face is real broad. :msp_thumbsup:
> 
> Kind'a looks like Thor's Hammer too -- which is always cool and manly.



Nate, you ever build a poundski?:msp_unsure:


----------



## bitzer

tramp bushler said:


> Bob. It must be an Alaskan thing. Any girl can pump on a jack. . Takes a man to pound over a heavy tree. I've jacked a bunch of timber. But like I said this tree didn't need one. .
> Personally I think your 30 ton the way you use it is a crucial part of your falling kit. You have heavy top trees that don't have a big stump. Perfect spot for a jack. I missed out on some 40 ton Duff Norton jacks at an auction in Fairbanks 2 summers ago. Besides. I wanted Dan to beat some wedges. . He's the one that made me fall it up hill.



Didn't mean to push too hard I guess. I have a tendency to go too far. Just ask my wife. I've also never cut anything nearly that tall either. That's another ball of wax. The only time I jack one is when I really need to. Other than that its beat em over or hopefully swing em a different way. Dan didn't look like he minded too much. I bet it feels good to pound the #### out of something after sittin in a machine most of the time. It does for me anyway.


----------



## Metals406

Cfaller said:


> Nate, you ever build a poundski?:msp_unsure:



I don't think so?

What is that? A polaski modified with a hammer poll on it or sumthin? :dunno:


----------



## tramp bushler

No Bob ; its cool. But that is the reason. On the coast. If your gonna pack a jack with you. You better Need it. 
What we needed was a real rafting ax and the right wedges it would have lifted in half the time. I didn't bring mine down there. I only brought my 8" Hard Head. The Hard Heads maximize the blow from my framing ax. They are only lightly textured so they drive easy. I'm not a fan of textured wedges and the vid shows why. . 

I've had more wedges in the back of trees and lifted it fairly easy with the right ax. 
It's kinda hard to keep Dan in the shovel. And he is an excellent cutter. He's kindof a man of action. Then when he steps in a hole and hurts one of his feet he stays up there. But. I don't know what the average $$$ that each log we put in the decks was. Prolly in the 400-500$ range. Most of the time he had a big smile and a real eager look about him. :msp_smile:

Unless it's Needed men don't jack timber in southeast!. 
At least my vid was Real World. Not like a lot of the yt vids of guys just putting in the back cut. Or some guy making a mess of putting in a face. Or pulling the guts out of piano grade wood. 

Besides. I really wanted to show how to do it right.


----------



## Cfaller

Metals406 said:


> I don't think so?
> 
> What is that? A polaski modified with a hammer poll on it or sumthin? :dunno:



It's a pulaski with the ax end cut down. Then you weld a piece of flat iron to it. The thickness with of the iron will determine the weight you want.


----------



## tramp bushler

Now, before anyone gets to thinking I'm arrogant or a know it all. . I've seen guys do some horrid things when falling a big tree. Like putting in their back cut from both sides and leaving a long skinny post in the center of the stump. Then beating for over an hour. Then have to help them. Its best to wait till they are too exhausted to fight when ya tell them they have to cut thru a couple of their new wedges to get the post cut. 
If it would have been me cutting a tower strip. I would have swung it around and had it hit going side ways, down the hill and down. Let it run itself out of steam and munched the top. We would have got the same amount of good logs out of it. But. Oh well.


----------



## tramp bushler

I may be making this worse as I go. I'm home setting in the house with all the shades closed because I got a chip in my eye yesterday and it scratched the heck out of my eye. Its real sunny outside. 

Anyway if someone wants to make a cool falling vid for yt. . Do the whole job and do it right. There are some Great vids out of BC on there. . For some reason a lot of the Americans are just back cut queens. :what:


----------



## Hddnis

Probably because outside of a handful of people who work in timber youtubers want to see action and a back cut and crashing tree seem more interesting than learning how to cut timber. 




Mr. HE


----------



## tramp bushler

Oh well. I think its stupid. I would rather watch a bare footed Phillipeno rip planks with an 090 . Free hand. 

Any idiot can backcut a tree. . 
Talk about the dumbing down of America


----------



## 1270d

tramp bushler said:


> Oh well. I think its stupid. I would rather watch a bare footed Phillipeno rip planks with an 090 . Free hand.



The phillino was pretty impressive wasn't he?


----------



## tramp bushler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhWaW0DTaWI&feature=youtube_gdata_player


.
Just t stir the pot a little more.


----------



## tramp bushler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuZy1tE2OLA&feature=youtube_gdata_player
.
I think this is a new one.


----------



## Trx250r180

tramp bushler said:


> Oh well. I think its stupid. I would rather watch a bare footed Phillipeno rip planks with an 090 . Free hand.
> 
> Any idiot can backcut a tree. .
> Talk about the dumbing down of America



Maybe you should post of cutting a blow down using a ladder pinching your blade ...............




Well maybe not ,keep doing what your doing ,the people that know what your doing will appreciate them ,would be cool to have more pro's doing this ,almost like a documentary . Unless you have done the work you do ,they have no idea the sweat that goes into it


----------



## tramp bushler

That's me. Mr Sweat Alot. I like to work good and hard in the summer. I can't work that hard in the winter. I breath hard if I'm doing anything. And I frost my throat and lungs. Whogot their bar pinched buckin blowdown on a ladder. . A ladder would come in handy fairly often.

For a tub a lard it seems I'm pretty healthy. Got my BP checked this morning at the hospital/ clinic 112 over 78 . 
See, beating wedges is good for ya.


----------



## bitzer

Well #### Glen, now I feel like a real a-hole. Not trying to put a dark spot on your videos or work. It was fun stuff to see and its even cooler that I know the guy who did it. I criticize the hell out of my own work and often look back thinking how I could have done things differently. It can easily rub off on here. For some reason I had a #### week of cutting. The worst in a long time. I lost two trees (one was rotten and one I pushed the holding wood too far). I haven't lost a tree in a long time. Had to walk out to the truck twice to grab a saw to cut out( haven't done that in 6-8 months I'll bet) and had to use my lifesaver bar from my pack once. Got #####ed out by a neighbor of the job that I killed two 2 inch trees when one that I lost crossed the boundary. Today I had a u-joint snap and tear a coolant line off. By the time I got to it she pissed out all of the coolant. I ran to town to get supplies and a big ass storm kicked up. Boo-hoo right? Just logging as usual. Your videos were great Glen and I shoulda kept my mouth shut! Carry on man. You were putting wood on the ground when I was still ####ting myself.


----------



## Metals406

bitzer said:


> Well #### Glen, now I feel like a real a-hole. Not trying to put a dark spot on your videos or work. It was fun stuff to see and its even cooler that I know the guy who did it. I criticize the hell out of my own work and often look back thinking how I could have done things differently. It can easily rub off on here. For some reason I had a #### week of cutting. The worst in a long time. I lost two trees (one was rotten and one I pushed the holding wood too far). I haven't lost a tree in a long time. Had to walk out to the truck twice to grab a saw to cut out( haven't done that in 6-8 months I'll bet) and had to use my lifesaver bar from my pack once. Got #####ed out by a neighbor of the job that I killed two 2 inch trees when one that I lost crossed the boundary. Today I had a u-joint snap and tear a coolant line off. By the time I got to it she pissed out all of the coolant. I ran to town to get supplies and a big ass storm kicked up. Boo-hoo right? Just logging as usual. Your videos were great Glen and I shoulda kept my mouth shut! Carry on man. You were putting wood on the ground when I was still ####ting myself.



But, enough talk about last weekend.


----------



## tramp bushler

Sorry Bob . they don't have a smiley face of my with my head up my ass. 

My eye hurts like hell and I'm p.o.d that I wasn't swinging danger trees away from the power lines today @Sheep Mountain. 
But in no way were those comments directed at you. I was just rootin an bellerin 
. 
I sorry you had a bad day too. If it makes you feel any better. One day I got dead hung up 4 times from noon to 2 pm. . I mean get Dan to come buck me out. Impossible to wedge out hung up.


----------



## Metals406

Cfaller said:


> It's a pulaski with the ax end cut down. Then you weld a piece of flat iron to it. The thickness with of the iron will determine the weight you want.



I got me some X-tree Pulaski heads outside. . . I should go make a butt ugly wedge axe out'a one and post it on here. :msp_mellow:


----------



## bitzer

Metals406 said:


> But, enough talk about last weekend.



Yes well... um...hmm... My favorite pair of shorts had to go in the fire. And one of my socks. My wife was proud. Not the lowest point of my career though.


----------



## bitzer

tramp bushler said:


> Sorry Bob . they don't have a smiley face of my with my head up my ass.
> 
> My eye hurts like hell and I'm p.o.d that I wasn't swinging danger trees away from the power lines today @Sheep Mountain.
> But in no way were those comments directed at you. I was just rootin an bellerin
> .
> I sorry you had a bad day too. If it makes you feel any better. One day I got dead hung up 4 times from noon to 2 pm. . I mean get Dan to come buck me out. Impossible to wedge out hung up.



Theres not much more irritating than a chip in the eye. Hope your weekend fares better! No problem man just making sure you knew I meant nothing by it.


----------



## tramp bushler

Timber Falling Mow'em Down1 - YouTube


----------



## tramp bushler

This guy is prolly a great guy. But right outa the chute he's cheating. . I gotta take 2 steps for every one of his.


----------



## Trx250r180

tramp bushler said:


> That's me. Mr Sweat Alot. I like to work good and hard in the summer. I can't work that hard in the winter. I breath hard if I'm doing anything. And I frost my throat and lungs. Whogot their bar pinched buckin blowdown on a ladder. . A ladder would come in handy fairly often.
> 
> For a tub a lard it seems I'm pretty healthy. Got my BP checked this morning at the hospital/ clinic 112 over 78 .
> See, beating wedges is good for ya.



there was a u-tube Gologit posted a while back ,i cant find it now ,a guy in his back yard on a ladder trying to cut up a tree that blew over ,was in fast forward speed ,kept getting his bar pinched ,was rather comical to watch ,looked a little dangerous too 

guys that are like in that one video are referred to as culls around here ,have no business running power equipment

if someone has that video it will help my description i was saying better about the "Blade " being pinched


----------



## tramp bushler

Ya, I couldn't figure out your wording on that. . Copy now. 

Here's another couple Heros :msp_sneaky: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cClxs3j_I6E&feature=youtube_gdata_player


----------



## twochains

trx250r180 said:


> there was a u-tube Gologit posted a while back ,i cant find it now ,a guy in his back yard on a ladder trying to cut up a tree that blew over ,was in fast forward speed ,kept getting his bar pinched ,was rather comical to watch ,looked a little dangerous too
> 
> guys that are like in that one video are referred to as culls around here ,have no business running power equipment
> 
> if someone has that video it will help my description i was saying better about the "Blade " being pinched



Hey I was just looking for it. I think it got pulled...it was in the Arborist 101 titled something like "is this any of you guys". I can't find it anymore. I know exactly the vid and it was riddiculous. You are talking about the derps that strapped the tree down and were pulling towards the ground in the middle while pinching their bar every 2 seconds? Fricken hillarious! The one guy kept walking under the tree. Finally they got a cut made but seemingly left the top half hung up towards the neighbors?? LOL! I was blocked for leaving any more negative comments on the vid. They had several other vids..#### I wish I could find them...


----------



## Gologit

*This it?*

Ax Men: Brian the Barbarian - YouTube

I'm not responsible if you guys laugh until you herniate yourselves and I'm not standing good for any keyboard/monitor beverage spray removal.


----------



## twochains

Yep!!! That's the one! That big ol' 5 ftr.!! LOL! Thanks Gologit! 

Gologit- have you seen this one?

Tractor vs bush - YouTube


----------



## mdavlee

That was pretty funny Bob. I did read the disclaimer but I did laugh hard and the wife was laughing pretty good too. 

I did make a stump today. I'll try to get pictures tomorrow. I did have to stack wedges in on it. :msp_smile: Sorry no video. Maybe next time


----------



## Gologit

mdavlee said:


> That was pretty funny Bob. I did read the disclaimer but I did laugh hard and the wife was laughing pretty good too.
> 
> I did make a stump today. I'll try to get pictures tomorrow. I did have to stack wedges in on it. :msp_smile: Sorry no video. Maybe next time



Yup, that video should have been titled "How many dumb mistakes can two guys make and get away with it?"

By the way, I'm still using that semi skip tooth chain that you sent me with the Stihl Lite bar.


----------



## jrcat

Gologit said:


> Ax Men: Brian the Barbarian - YouTube
> 
> I'm not responsible if you guys laugh until you herniate yourselves and I'm not standing good for any keyboard/monitor beverage spray removal.



:amazed::beat_shot:


----------



## HuskStihl

tramp bushler said:


> Or some guy making a mess of putting in a face.
> 
> Besides. I really wanted to show how to do it right.



I take zero offense from this. I have never, and will likely never put in a face as good as that one


----------



## HuskStihl

tramp bushler said:


> Any idiot can backcut a tree. .



Oh, not always:msp_biggrin:


----------



## Hddnis

Gologit said:


> Ax Men: Brian the Barbarian - YouTube
> 
> I'm not responsible if you guys laugh until you herniate yourselves and I'm not standing good for any keyboard/monitor beverage spray removal.





That....


...uh...

...I think...


...um...


...I'm speechless.


:waaaht:




Mr. HE


----------



## bustedup

Gologit said:


> Ax Men: Brian the Barbarian - YouTube
> 
> I'm not responsible if you guys laugh until you herniate yourselves and I'm not standing good for any keyboard/monitor beverage spray removal.



The Benny Hill theme tune would go well there ......


----------



## redprospector

Gologit said:


> Ax Men: Brian the Barbarian - YouTube
> 
> I'm not responsible if you guys laugh until you herniate yourselves and I'm not standing good for any keyboard/monitor beverage spray removal.



All I can say is; WOW! & they're still alive to tell about it. 

Andy


----------



## Metals406

tramp bushler said:


> Ya, I couldn't figure out your wording on that. . Copy now.
> 
> Here's another couple Heros :msp_sneaky: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cClxs3j_I6E&feature=youtube_gdata_player



Michael is up in AK falling OG timber with Chuck Berg. . . Chuck says he's a pretty good faller. :dunno:


----------



## bitzer

There is a definite progression in Michaels videos. That one is an earlier one. Its tough to make a decent video that anyone will give a #### about.


----------



## mdavlee

As far as good falling videos Jasha and pat/ greenwedge are about the smoothest operators. I wish they had more videos.


----------



## northmanlogging

I think Tramps rant was more about the video only showing the easy stuff. Face cuts and bludgeoning wedges are boring to most people so people never show it. For guys like us the hard stuff is what we want to see, that's what sets the good fallers apart from the chainsaw owners.


----------



## mdavlee

You guys probably would have liked a video of what I did yesterday. I had 3 wedges in the back and then had to stack 2 to finally get it over after I buried 2 on each side of the middle so I had room to stack them.


----------



## HuskStihl

northmanlogging said:


> I think Tramps rant was more about the video only showing the easy stuff. Face cuts and bludgeoning wedges are boring to most people so people never show it. For guys like us the hard stuff is what we want to see, that's what sets the good fallers apart from the chainsaw owners.



I'll try to post more. Nothing looks easy when I'm doing it:biggrin:
It'll remind newbs stumbling on here that falling ain't easy!


----------



## paccity




----------



## paccity




----------



## paccity

???


----------



## tramp bushler

HuskStihl said:


> I take zero offense from this. I have never, and will likely never put in a face as good as that one




HS. In No way was that comment directed at you. . 

My raggin on yt vids pertains to professionals. . I liked your "long bar " vid. . Ya, you made a mistake. But you learned. That's good. . I'm back at the clinic again this morning. Got a sliver stuck in the inside of my eye lid. The didn't get it out yesterday. I shire do hope someone here can roll up my eye lid on a wood q tip and remove it. I have to start in Valdez on Monday. I was hoping to have a fun day with the wife tomorrow. Not sit inside a dark house.


----------



## treeslayer2003

tramp bushler said:


> HS. In No way was that comment directed at you. .
> 
> My raggin on yt vids pertains to professionals. . I liked your "long bar " vid. . Ya, you made a mistake. But you learned. That's good. . I'm back at the clinic again this morning. Got a sliver stuck in the inside of my eye lid. The didn't get it out yesterday. I shire do hope someone here can roll up my eye lid on a wood q tip and remove it. I have to start in Valdez on Monday. I was hoping to have a fun day with the wife tomorrow. Not sit inside a dark house.



dam tramp, I know that crap hurts. I was kinda hopein that stuff didn't happen forever. hope ya get it straightened out.


----------



## treeslayer2003

paccity said:


>



I hope no one takes offence to this but I been wonderin for a while now, why do you western guys cut the stumps that high? I figure must be a reason.


----------



## twochains

Here's one from this morning. The saw bogged on the first tree due to the tree puking a bit...par for the course I guess

....and yes...I fell off the log!...go figure

FILE0008 - YouTube


----------



## Spotted Owl

treeslayer2003 said:


> I hope no one takes offence to this but I been wonderin for a while now, why do you western guys cut the stumps that high? I figure must be a reason.



I think I know what cut Paccity took this photo of. If so. These stumps were used as guys stumps for the yarder at different set ups. Plenty of times it's a 12" rule, with the tribe it's a dollar an inch over 12", and they actually check and measure out all over the job. A lot depends on the ground also. Then again easy stumps make good fire rounds for the loggers, that can't walk off on their own.



Owl


----------



## paccity

:agree2:


----------



## paccity

yup ,like owl said some times you can't have too many guyholds.


----------



## treeslayer2003

Spotted Owl said:


> I think I know what cut Paccity took this photo of. If so. These stumps were used as guys stumps for the yarder at different set ups. Plenty of times it's a 12" rule, with the tribe it's a dollar an inch over 12", and they actually check and measure out all over the job. A lot depends on the ground also. Then again easy stumps make good fire rounds for the loggers, that can't walk off on their own.
> 
> 
> 
> Owl



I see, so stumps normally not that tall. seems like when I see stump pics from there, they tall. 12" bout right here. juss wondered, thanks owl.


----------



## treeslayer2003

paccity said:


> yup ,like owl said some times you can't have too many guyholds.



wow, that's a lot of rigging.


----------



## twochains

paccity said:


> yup ,like owl said some times you can't have too many guyholds.



How in the World does all that work? Is that just support? Holy #### you would have to be a fricken engineer to rig all of that and do it properly.


----------



## Spotted Owl

When nothing is big enough to hold. You use lots of nothing and hope for the best. See the twisters on the back of the stumps? Gotta hold nothing to more nothing. That's a good spider web right there. Wonder what the shackle rating is, that's a whole lot riding on there. Something that seems forgotten now days is letting the ground to the work. See that bigger stump? How the rigging is coming up over the top? Use that stump two ways, down and to the side. If ya got a rise in the back, take your tail over the rise. That ground will take a huge amount of the strain and then you will not have to have such a substantial tail structure to hold. Use everything to your advantage out there. Even then, you will have to get into messes like the photo.

I don't feel so much for the guy who had to rig it, I feel more for the guys who had to pack all that crap out there so it could be rigged. Most times it seems there is no road on the backside. Up on the shoulders and away you go. At least for the first road, then you just leave it down there for later.



Owl

Some days I miss it, most days I don't.


----------



## twochains

It's quite impressive for sure! Yeh that got to be quite a job packing all that damn cable out there into the bush. 

Owl- what about landslides? Seems like all the rain you guys get on those steep slopes with shallow roots could give way under alot of weight and pressure. Hey are there alot of rigging guys on Arborist Site?


----------



## tramp bushler

Code:







Metals406 said:


> Michael is up in AK falling OG timber with Chuck Berg. . . Chuck says he's a pretty good faller. :dunno:



Great. I guess I've just had too many years of too many cutters that considered them selves to be great. I have a photo sequence of a guy falling a spruce that was about 6' on thestump . It took him close to half an hour to get it on the ground. He considered himself A lot better than I was. He fell it with the lean and pulled the guts out of a beautiful export log. Like 10' of stump pull. That tree had 7 bushel in it. Maybe 7 1/4 . Oddly enough we cut next each other and We had the same scale each day or I beat him. Both running 394 s. He didn't wear glasses. I would be cleaning mine 25 times in a 6.5 hour day. When I got contacts and screen goggles I left him so far behind me there wasn't even anything to talk about. 
But he would still run his mouth.


----------



## tramp bushler

As I've stated many times. I know lots of cutters that I can hardly pack gas for. And they do their job copletly. You want to find out how good a cutter is, ask the Riggin crew. Pretty much all timber in Alaska is old growth.


----------



## tramp bushler

twochains said:


> Here's one from this morning. The saw bogged on the first tree due to the tree puking a bit...par for the course I guess
> 
> ....and yes...I fell off the log!...go figure
> 
> FILE0008 - YouTube




Really nice clean work Clint. I was smiling when I saw your thumbs position. :msp_biggrin: . You run a nice steady pace! We gotta get you in a west coast set up saw tho. Saves a lot of steps at the stump. And is safer. You can cut with the bottom of the bar And stay on the high side of the tree.


----------



## twochains

Thanks Glen, much appreciated! Yep, I hit my boss up for a 660R and he said yes, and I put in a heavy week...so I'm hopin' real soon!


----------



## tramp bushler

Duplicate post


----------



## dooby

tramp bushler said:


> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Great. I guess I've just had too many years of too many cutters that considered them selves to be great. I have a photo sequence of a guy falling a spruce that was about 6' on thestump . It took him close to half an hour to get it on the ground. He considered himself A lot better than I was. He fell it with the lean and pulled the guts out of a beautiful export log. Like 10' of stump pull. That tree had 7 bushel in it. Maybe 7 1/4 . Oddly enough we cut next each other and We had the same scale each day or I beat him. Both running 394 s. He didn't wear glasses. I would be cleaning mine 25 times in a 6.5 hour day. When I got contacts and screen goggles I left him so far behind me there wasn't even anything to talk about.
> But he would still run his mouth.



I concur-i have known several cutters through the years that are lyin',stealin,no good cheatin' braggarts. There was a guy i remember from my first season in the brush. when he piled in the crummy he would have 88 logs by the time he got done at the bar on the way home he'd have 120 or more on his tally-whacker. his nickname was Lonnie Longcount. Then there is the guy who busts the wood up so it helps his count. I am not the best by any means but the best are watchin' there heels. Cause they know I am watchin' them. Someday I hope I get to go to Alaska. Some of the area legends from here say i won't come back but for the elk huntin'. It's been awhile since i cut by the foot. It's all tonnage here or day pay(that can suck)LOL Twochains videos are gettin' better. He will get fired for high stumps, the wrap will cause an issue..... we have had this chat:msp_rolleyes:


----------



## dooby

twochains said:


> How in the World does all that work? Is that just support? Holy #### you would have to be a fricken engineer to rig all of that and do it properly.



Holly multiples!!!! Was that a 3 or 4 drum set-up? I have rigged some stuff but wowzers!


----------



## paccity

no buck chuck. not far from here back in the day.


----------



## dooby

twochains said:


> How in the World does all that work? Is that just support? Holy #### you would have to be a fricken engineer to rig all of that and do it properly.


 twochains- i think that multiple of multiples(LOL) is hooked to a swing yarder. if so - as the yarder turns the drag to the left or right of dead center it pulls more evenly on the stumps or tail holds because the snatch blocks distribute the pressure as the slope of the hole and the angle of the dangle change.LOL.


----------



## dooby

paccity said:


> no buck chuck. not far from here back in the day.



paccity- that is an awesome shot. I love the spring board at the bottom of the stump. What a beaut. Do you remember how many bushel? I think that's the slickest shot on her for awhile now !!! IMHO


----------



## tramp bushler

paccity said:


> no buck chuck. not far from here back in the day.





Now that is a pic that is worth more than a thousand words. COOL


----------



## twochains

paccity said:


> no buck chuck. not far from here back in the day.



That is an incredible picture! Super nice stump also! Did the tree save out for the most part?


----------



## paccity

twochains said:


> That is an incredible picture! Super nice stump also! Did the tree save out for the most part?


if i remember right it did. but i'll clarify that next time i yap with him , which is weekly.



heres chuck buckin.



and his cuttin partner jenn.


----------



## bitzer

Really a fantastic picture Pac! So I have been wondering for a while were you a timber faller?


----------



## dooby

I want a cuttin' partner kinda like that !!!!! oh!can i please just have........one:msp_scared:


----------



## paccity

bitzer said:


> Really a fantastic picture Pac! So I have been wondering for a while were you a timber faller?



thanks , wish i had recorded more . but ya, dabbled in the in the arts from 81 threw mid 86. now i do removals and grinding. but i get to play for pay now and then.:msp_wink:


----------



## bitzer

paccity said:


> thanks , wish i had recorded more . but ya, dabbled in the in the arts from 81 threw mid 86. now i do removals and grinding. but i get to play for pay now and then.:msp_wink:



That's good to know. I've gathered what a lot of the regulars have done over the years and I knew you did removals currently and I figured you had some timber falling in your past. I'm sure you were putting some pretty decent wood on the ground back in the 80s yet. I always enjoy your pictures!


----------



## paccity

bitzer said:


> That's good to know. I've gathered what a lot of the regulars have done over the years and I knew you did removals currently and I figured you had some timber falling in your past. I'm sure you were putting some pretty decent wood on the ground back in the 80s yet. I always enjoy your pictures!



was not all big, put down more smalls than punkins.:msp_rolleyes:but those lasts pic are credited to chuck . he did a great job of recording his life in the wood from his start. and is still knocking them down. cool guy.


----------



## Spotted Owl

Photos are something I really kick myself in the butt over. I look at stuff like this and really think it would be cool to be able to show folks and especially the kids things and what was done. This stuff really gets ya to thinking about the past and what was and what is to come. Yup what is to come, someday the big wood will be opened up again.

These are good photos, all of them.



Owl


----------



## paccity

owl, think they would notice a few holes in the canopy up behind your place .


----------



## tramp bushler

Looks like he had a 42 on the 2100 and a 60 on the 075 .


----------



## tramp bushler

Spotted Owl said:


> Photos are something I really kick myself in the butt over. I look at stuff like this and really think it would be cool to be able to show folks and especially the kids things and what was done. This stuff really gets ya to thinking about the past and what was and what is to come. Yup what is to come, someday the big wood will be opened up again.
> 
> These are good photos, all of them.
> 
> 
> 
> Owl



Obviously we don't have the tall timber here in Alaska that there is I'm the PNW and southern part of BC . But we did and still do have some good size timber. I've almost always been in too much of a hurry to really take and hang onto pics of my cutting. . And when I did take them I didn't do such a good job of it. . . That's why I get on my rants about recording the whole task of falling timber. But I really appreciate those that did. Even some of the back cut kings.


----------



## twochains

paccity said:


> if i remember right it did. but i'll clarify that next time i yap with him , which is weekly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> heres chuck buckin.
> 
> 
> 
> and his cuttin partner jenn.



I'm pretty sure I would have to marry my cutting partner! ...I just can't get over it! That's awesome!


----------



## treeslayer2003

that saw big as she is, that's a tuff chick.


----------



## bustedup

that a 2100 with a velocity stack I think .......Those saws are awesome saws imo lol


----------



## tramp bushler

treeslayer2003 said:


> I see, so stumps normally not that tall. seems like when I see stump pics from there, they tall. 12" bout right here. juss wondered, thanks owl.



. Stump height depends on the way the timber grew. Sitka Spruce and Red Cedar tend to be real leggy. Western Hemlock usually is also. . Mostly on the coast we have a 12" stump height. But that's from where the roots stopand above that's needs to be the top of the stump. 



I was a bit high on this one, but not bad enough to get chewed on. .


----------



## forestryworks

paccity said:


> was not all big, put down more smalls than punkins.:msp_rolleyes:but those lasts pic are credited to chuck . he did a great job of recording his life in the wood from his start. and is still knocking them down. cool guy.



Next time you talk to him, tell him I said hey.


----------



## paccity

forestryworks said:


> Next time you talk to him, tell him I said hey.



will do.


----------



## dooby

paccity said:


> where do you find tipps for them? need one.



Paccity- did you ever get a hold of any tips ?


----------



## lumberjack48

My father never took pictures and from the time i started in the late 50's till the mid 90's when we quit logging we took very few pictures. I always remember saying, we should have a picture of that.


----------



## Cfaller

Some pics from Saturday. :bang:
This was a limb loaded mountain pine beetle killed tree. The bole of the tree had no weight to it plus, I had a fair amount of hold wood on it. I changed my cuts from steep and deep to deep and shallow so it would launch off the stump better. :msp_smile:View attachment 301555
View attachment 301556


----------



## northmanlogging

Ah yes the wonderful Wolf tree, more limbs than meet the eye...


----------



## hammerlogging

pac and tramp, awesome contributions, thanks,

Here's a few randoms.

found this when I had to drop in to just above someone's strip from last winter. fine work. big POS white pine probably leaning ever which way and as much a pain as was fun to sample some alternative technique. this one will pass.

View attachment 301572


just another poplar, the daily dumping continues
View attachment 301573


----------



## Deleted member 110241

northmanlogging said:


> Ah yes the wonderful Wolf tree, more limbs than meet the eye...



We call them wolfs too (in sweden)! I've always wondered why...


----------



## twochains

Cfaller said:


> Some pics from Saturday. :bang:
> This was a limb loaded mountain pine beetle killed tree. The bole of the tree had no weight to it plus, I had a fair amount of hold wood on it. I changed my cuts from steep and deep to deep and shallow so it would launch off the stump better. :msp_smile:View attachment 301555
> View attachment 301556



I feel for ya limbing that crap! Do you have a skidder near by to roll them around?


----------



## treeslayer2003

View attachment 301687
View attachment 301688
View attachment 301689
View attachment 301690

here is a couple from today, and a couple of the old man's from 27 years ago in the same tract.


----------



## twochains

Nice slayer! That is super neat that you are cutting on the same tract your Dad cut on so many years ago! Thats awesome!


----------



## treeslayer2003

yup, happens all the time. some times I wonder how many walked my same tracks before me.
I've seen hart pine stumps from at least the 30s.


----------



## Gologit

treeslayer2003 said:


> yup, happens all the time. some times I wonder how many walked my same tracks before me.
> I've seen hart pine stumps from at least the 30s.



That's a good feeling, isn't it? A couple of years ago I logged a piece of our ground that my Grandfather logged back in the 30s. I found some old junk...cable, choker bells, a steel falling wedge, that somebody left behind.
There's also an old sled made out of hand hewn logs, maybe eight feet in diameter and forty feet long, that probably had a steam donkey attached to it at one time. The sled ends were ax cut and all the old bolts are squarehead. The logs are almost rotted away now but you can see the shape of the thing. I have no idea how old it is but it probably predates my Grandfather.


----------



## treeslayer2003

Gologit said:


> That's a good feeling, isn't it? A couple of years ago I logged a piece of our ground that my Grandfather logged back in the 30s. I found some old junk...cable, choker bells, a steel falling wedge, that somebody left behind.
> There's also an old sled made out of hand hewn logs, maybe eight feet in diameter and forty feet long, that probably had a steam donkey attached to it at one time. The sled ends were ax cut and all the old bolts are squarehead. The logs are almost rotted away now but you can see the shape of the thing. I have no idea how old it is but it probably predates my Grandfather.



yes, it is. i'm proud to be in the long line of woodsmen. it is a family tradition. but I fear I am prolly the last in my family, my older sons have no interest. who knows what the little one will do.


----------



## HuskStihl

treeslayer2003 said:


> yes, it is. i'm proud to be in the long line of woodsmen. it is a family tradition. but I fear I am prolly the last in my family, my older sons have no interest. who knows what the little one will do.



You could adopt Jrcat. He seems like a friendly kid:biggrin:


----------



## bitzer

Rain....


----------



## Trx250r180

is cal rain different than wash rain ? it rains a lot here but not too heavy most of the time ,do you guys get heavy downpours ?

raindrops keep your saw washed off 

View attachment 301804
View attachment 301805


----------



## Gologit

trx250r180 said:


> is cal rain different than wash rain ? it rains a lot here but not too heavy most of the time ,do you guys get heavy downpours ?
> 
> raindrops keep your saw washed off
> 
> View attachment 301804
> View attachment 301805



. There are many completely different eco-systems in California and they all have a unique rainfall pattern. 

Where I am, the west slope of the Sierra Nevada, we get a lot of heavy downpours. It's unusual for it to rain more than a few days in a row and very often there's a lot of sunshine between storms. The big storms seem to come in from the coast, run hard across the Sacramento Valley, and then hit the foothills and stall out until they gather enough force to head up to the Sierras and on to the east. 

I'm a long way from being any kind of meteorologist but I found this chart that explains the local weather better than I can.



Climate Grass Valley - California - Climate graph





It's still raining today but this should be the last of it. We're trying to get a new sale started. I was going to put the fallers in next Monday, start skidding Tuesday and start hauling on Wednesday but we'll have to see how the roads are. It's clay ground, real snotty when it's wet, and there are some steep pulls and tight hard climbing switchbacks.. If I have to bring in another Cat just to tow trucks out I will but I'd rather wait another day or two for it to dry out. The logging ground is good, as usual it's the haul roads that hang us up.

LOL...you can quit sending the rain now.


----------



## Cedarkerf

Gologit said:


> . There are many completely different eco-systems in California and they all have a unique rainfall pattern.
> 
> Where I am, the west slope of the Sierra Nevada, we get a lot of heavy downpours. It's unusual for it to rain more than a few days in a row and very often there's a lot of sunshine between storms. The big storms seem to come in from the coast, run hard across the Sacramento Valley, and then hit the foothills and stall out until they gather enough force to head up to the Sierras and on to the east.
> 
> I'm a long way from being any kind of meteorologist but I found this chart that explains the local weather better than I can.
> 
> 
> 
> Climate Grass Valley - California - Climate graph
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's still raining today but this should be the last of it. We're trying to get a new sale started. I was going to put the fallers in next Monday, start skidding Tuesday and start hauling on Wednesday but we'll have to see how the roads are. It's clay ground, real snotty when it's wet, and there are some steep pulls and tight hard climbing switchbacks.. If I have to bring in another Cat just to tow trucks out I will but I'd rather wait another day or two for it to dry out. The logging ground is good, as usual it's the haul roads that hang us up.
> 
> LOL...you can quit sending the rain now.



Our weather this week is reminding me of a camping trip in Astoria


----------



## Trx250r180

when i was in san diego a few years ago ,when it rained it came down way harder than anything we get here ,parking lot of my hotel was a foot under water ,if your getting that kind of stuff ,i'll see what i can do to turn it off for a while ,that would be hard to work in ,muddy landings are no fun either ,seems like you get taller the more you walk in that clay stuff when its too wet


----------



## treeslayer2003

rained out huh bitz, I don't know whats worse here, wet or hot.


----------



## bitzer

I'm convinced we are a month behind in our weather pattern. Last Dec. was more like Nov. Winter didn't really get started until January and ran hard until April. Our rainy muddy spring weather should be March, April, May, but its more like April, May, June. I'm taking off for up north (that's were we go on vacation in this state-the big woods) for the 4th. I sure as hell hope summer kicks in by then. Just when the ground is good to go it rains again. I packed back to the truck in a driving downpour this morning with thunder and lightning nipping at my heels. It was about 9 am. I have cut in every kind of #### imaginable, but I draw the line at lighting. I had an ash tree blow up from a lightning strike about 20 yards from me last year. The wife went to work for the rest of the day. I can usually see the up side of things, but this is getting old.


----------



## treeslayer2003

same over here man, only now it hot as fire to. 96 and humid and it prolly storm again this afternoon. these storms been dumpin 2-3 inches of rain, it useualy dry this time of year. yea, I had that happen with a pine one day. lightning run down it and blew leaves n dirt on me. my hair stood up it scared me so bad. I won't cut in a storm now either.


----------



## bitzer

Yep there is another 1-2 inches forecasted for tonight and tomorrow. I was cursing the sun all winter and now I need him back! You can be sure that when it does stop raining that it will be 95 with 90 percent humidity.


----------



## treeslayer2003

well, I ain't the only one sweatin then. Bitz, with all the wet weather do you ever think about a regular cable skidder or would it not make any diff. not knockin your method here, just curios.


----------



## Gologit

Cedarkerf said:


> Our weather this week is reminding me of a camping trip in Astoria



Ha! I remember that camping trip. If it hadn't been for the good company us Californians would have turned tail and headed south to a drier climate.


----------



## bitzer

treeslayer2003 said:


> well, I ain't the only one sweatin then. Bitz, with all the wet weather do you ever think about a regular cable skidder or would it not make any diff. not knockin your method here, just curios.



I've thought about it many times although I don't know that it would make much of a difference. Maybe a little 440 or something? My machine weighs roughly 12 ton not loaded. I can easily through another 5 ton of wood on the back. A JD 440 weighs out at like 6 ton or so right? I've though if I do get one though it would be a JD 540. The 540s seem like they would pull quite a bit more, but then again if its a wet scenario I wouldn't be going for max pull. They do make swamp tires for my machine, but that's something like 10 grand for a used set. I also think I'd need to pick up some axle extensions. I originally bought the forwarder for the small landings and pulp I usually deal with. That and getting strictly log jobs is getting pretty tough around here. Most landowners want the pulp out of the tops too. It cleans the woods out a little more. I've also though about a tracked machine. Ahh, money, money, money. If only I had enough to support my logging habit (hobby or job?). I also need a new saw if anyone is interested in sending me a new 390! I may be doing some finagling at the saw shop soon. It will go something like- "just as soon as it dries up I'll have the money for ya!" It might work...

All right ####### I should get off my ass and quit feeling sorry for myself. At least get the house clean or take a nap?


----------



## treeslayer2003

yep, lemme know if that works mebbe I can get a bigger loader that way. I had 34" rubber on a clark, all that did was get it stuck worse. not worth the hassle in my opinion. 540 with 28s walk on water till ya load it, then it sticks too. wet sucs.


----------



## HuskStihl

treeslayer2003 said:


> yep, lemme know if that works mebbe I can get a bigger loader that way. I had 34" rubber on a clark, all that did was get it stuck worse. not worth the hassle in my opinion. 540 with 28s walk on water till ya load it, then it sticks too. wet sucs.



If it stays as dry as it has been here, I'll be back in the removal business in short order


----------



## jrcat

A drencher came through today for about 5 minutes then passed on. Just enough to wet things down some then the sun came back out to a toasty almost 90.. humid... chewy air ..


----------



## Metals406

We seem to be following last year's pattern. A wet June, but then it got hot and dry for the rest of the summer.

We might get a little more rain today, but the next 7 days it's supposed to be in the 80's and 90's and sunny. :msp_smile:

I'm not a _huge _fan of the hot temps, but I'm also over all his wet crap. :msp_sneaky:


----------



## Metals406

jrcat said:


> A drencher came through today for about 5 minutes then passed on. Just enough to wet things down some then the sun came back out to a toasty almost 90.. humid... chewy air ..



YUCK!

I hate humidity! :msp_mad:


----------



## jrcat

To add to it I was down in a hollow with a creek running through it and lots of under brush...Perfect place for those no see ums. I think I ate at least a handful..


----------



## jrcat

I cut some nice hard maple today ..


----------



## treeslayer2003

jrcat said:


> I cut some nice hard maple today ..



bet it feels good to get back to work


----------



## jrcat

treeslayer2003 said:


> bet it feels good to get back to work



Yes it does.


----------



## dooby

Metals406 said:


> We seem to be following last year's pattern. A wet June, but then it got hot and dry for the rest of the summer.
> 
> We might get a little more rain today, but the next 7 days it's supposed to be in the 80's and 90's and sunny. :msp_smile:
> 
> I'm not a _huge _fan of the hot temps, but I'm also over all his wet crap. :msp_sneaky:



where are you from in Montana ?


----------



## Keen

Looks like I wasn't the only one cutting hard maple today. Lots of veneer on this job and only being five minutes from house makes it nice. Now just for the heat.......... I know poor pic taking skills and the camera lens soaked and sweat didn't help.


----------



## HuskStihl

jrcat said:


> I cut some nice hard maple today ..



I didn't know a 365 would cut hard maple:hmm3grin2orange:

Just kidding, I can't make a stump that nice


----------



## bitzer

With all the big hard maple I cut last week I felt like the 390 was a dog at times... Bucking not so much. Just slow at the stump. Stumpin big sugar maple all day gets old and sucks for production cutting. Now pickin up those big maple sticks is a different story.


----------



## tramp bushler

You guys can send the rain up here.. 
Please!!!!!!!
It was 89 in the shade in Glennallen today. Pretty darn hot here in Valdez too. I klum and took down 6 cottonwoods today. Nothing big. But 16-18"at the stump 
First day In the spurs for the fat boy this year. I drank a gallon of fluid and only peed once. Got cramps in all the usual climbing spots. Hands, back, abs and obliques. 
Plus I cut a bunch of alders. Glad I got 3 groundies


----------



## tramp bushler

bitzer said:


> With all the big hard maple I cut last week I felt like the 390 was a dog at times... Bucking n
> ot so much. Just slow at the stump. Stumpin big sugar maple all day gets old and sucks for production cutting. Now pickin up those big maple sticks is a different story.




Bob ; Have you thot about putting a new top end on it? . I know a new power head is nice 
I'de send ya mine if ya really need one.


----------



## Metals406

dooby said:


> where are you from in Montana ?



11 miles west of Kalispell.


----------



## Metals406

Sat-Sun my BIL and I bucked and loaded/unloaded 8 trailer loads of Elm -- all green. It was quite the workout!

Pretty rare to score that much 'hardwood' here.

Why didn't y'all tell me Elm smells like cow crap? 

Mamma sure don't like my Elm smell -- near like DF, pine or Larch! :msp_biggrin:


----------



## Steve NW WI

Metals406 said:


> Sat-Sun my BIL and I bucked and loaded/unloaded 8 trailer loads of Elm -- all green. It was quite the workout!
> 
> Pretty rare to score that much 'hardwood' here.
> 
> Why didn't y'all tell me Elm smells like cow crap?
> 
> Mamma sure don't like my Elm smell -- near like DF, pine or Larch! :msp_biggrin:



Firewoodin? The barn smell goes away as it dries out. Dang fine firewood in my book, right there with red oak as far as I'm concerned. Once you get it split, that is...


----------



## jrcat

HuskStihl said:


> I didn't know a 365 would cut hard maple:hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> Just kidding, I can't make a stump that nice


ears noses and throatsessssss


Metals406 said:


> Sat-Sun my BIL and I bucked and loaded/unloaded 8 trailer loads of Elm -- all green. It was quite the workout!
> 
> Pretty rare to score that much 'hardwood' here.
> 
> Why didn't y'all tell me Elm smells like cow crap?
> 
> Mamma sure don't like my Elm smell -- near like DF, pine or Larch! :msp_biggrin:



Dude they call it piss elm for a reason lol...Good luck getting rid of the smell it can linger. Red oak smells like a mixture of extra extra sharp chedder and 1 day old baby crap. Still not as bad as cottin wood


----------



## bitzer

tramp bushler said:


> Bob ; Have you thot about putting a new top end on it? . I know a new power head is nice
> I'de send ya mine if ya really need one.



Its not the power really, it just little odds and ends. I'm rattling the thing apart at this point. Its past it prime for sure. It will make a damn fine back up saw. Thank you Glen for the offer!


----------



## bitzer

Metals406 said:


> Sat-Sun my BIL and I bucked and loaded/unloaded 8 trailer loads of Elm -- all green. It was quite the workout!
> 
> Pretty rare to score that much 'hardwood' here.
> 
> Why didn't y'all tell me Elm smells like cow crap?
> 
> Mamma sure don't like my Elm smell -- near like DF, pine or Larch! :msp_biggrin:



If its red elm, You'll have a hell of a time splitting it. American elm not so much. The red is really stringy. When swinging a big one they will stay on the stump forever, like way past your lay forever. Dead standing with no bark on makes awesome firewood. Either way like Steve said its damn good firewood.


----------



## Keen

bitzer said:


> With all the big hard maple I cut last week I felt like the 390 was a dog at times... Bucking not so much. Just slow at the stump. Stumpin big sugar maple all day gets old and sucks for production cutting. Now pickin up those big maple sticks is a different story.



I was using my 390 also. As soon as you start the face cut on those hard maples it seems the saw looses 30cc. I plunged the face out on all the ones I cut, then the leaners are also bore cut. Those trees are hard on the saw and hard on your body. We were getting 16 trees on the landing a day. That's with topping them in the woods and making a second skid to pull out the top. Sounds pathetic. I am getting 35 percent of the sale so there is still good money there even with the slow production.


----------



## treeslayer2003

Keen said:


> Looks like I wasn't the only one cutting hard maple today. Lots of veneer on this job and only being five minutes from house makes it nice. Now just for the heat.......... I know poor pic taking skills and the camera lens soaked and sweat didn't help.



nice work keen, if all the soft maple here was hard i'd get rich.


----------



## treeslayer2003

guys, how hard is hard maple compared to hickory? I cut a 30+ inch hickory yesterday, swore I hit something. no jus hard wood.


----------



## treeslayer2003

bitzer said:


> With all the big hard maple I cut last week I felt like the 390 was a dog at times... Bucking not so much. Just slow at the stump. Stumpin big sugar maple all day gets old and sucks for production cutting. Now pickin up those big maple sticks is a different story.



I cut some poplar a while back that cut like white oak at the stump, at 12 feet it was soft like typical poplar. I figure it must have been older than avg.


----------



## treeslayer2003

tramp bushler said:


> You guys can send the rain up here..
> Please!!!!!!!
> It was 89 in the shade in Glennallen today. Pretty darn hot here in Valdez too. I klum and took down 6 cottonwoods today. Nothing big. But 16-18"at the stump
> First day In the spurs for the fat boy this year. I drank a gallon of fluid and only peed once. Got cramps in all the usual climbing spots. Hands, back, abs and obliques.
> Plus I cut a bunch of alders. Glad I got 3 groundies



well, there goes my idea of going there to escape the heat. where is it cool? the arctic I guess.


----------



## bitzer

Keen said:


> I was using my 390 also. As soon as you start the face cut on those hard maples it seems the saw looses 30cc. I plunged the face out on all the ones I cut, then the leaners are also bore cut. Those trees are hard on the saw and hard on your body. We were getting 16 trees on the landing a day. That's with topping them in the woods and making a second skid to pull out the top. Sounds pathetic. I am getting 35 percent of the sale so there is still good money there even with the slow production.



Typically I burn a gallon and a half of mix when I go out cutting. Maybe 5-6 hours. I can usually cut 25-30 sawtimber trees in that time. That's with bucking in the woods and pulpin out the tops along with a couple of pulp trees thrown in there. Its bushels up to around 5-6mbf and 6 cords of pulp. Some days I can cut more depending on how everything lays out and species. Then I'll hop in the forwarder and pick everything up in the afternoon. 

The hard maple job I cut last week was all around bar length (24"-32") and I was cutting 12-15 trees using the gallon and a half. Pulpin out the tops on the those big #####es sucks too. They're all tension. I was able to get all that wood picked up in an afternoon, but then again it was a short skid. They also had more like 3-400bf per tree, but like you said it seems tough on you. Its funny you say that about the 30cc drop. It seems like my chain went to hell on me.


----------



## bitzer

treeslayer2003 said:


> guys, how hard is hard maple compared to hickory? I cut a 30+ inch hickory yesterday, swore I hit something. no jus hard wood.



I would rather cut hickory, oak, whatever over hard maple all day. Like I said bucking is really not a problem it just sucks off the stump. I cut a job last summer that had a good mix of cherry, maple, basswood, hickory, ash, elm, oak, pretty much a good upland hardwood mix. All of the timber was pretty close in size. There was one patch of all maple that I cut a day after I cut a nice mixed strip. It seemed like I was never getting anywhere. It took me almost an extra hour to put the same amount of wood on the ground from the day before. Both were good cutting days too. No hang ups, pinched bars, excessive chain swapping. Nothing like that. It just took that much longer.


----------



## Metals406

bitzer said:


> If its red elm, You'll have a hell of a time splitting it. American elm not so much. The red is really stringy. When swinging a big one they will stay on the stump forever, like way past your lay forever. Dead standing with no bark on makes awesome firewood. Either way like Steve said its damn good firewood.



They were 90-100 year old American's I think? They all had Dutch Elm -- and some of the leaders were already dead.

I took a round and tried to split it, and it just bounced the maul back. We tried a dead round, and it split fine.

Green Elm is about as indignant to splitting as Ponderosa pine is.


----------



## bitzer

Metals406 said:


> They were 90-100 year old American's I think? They all had Dutch Elm -- and some of the leaders were already dead.
> 
> I took a round and tried to split it, and it just bounced the maul back. We tried a dead round, and it split fine.
> 
> Green Elm is about as indignant to splitting as Ponderosa pine is.



The red elm has a pretty red color as soon as you stump it. The color fades after a while, but this time of year its a pretty bright color. The bark is also super slippery on the inside. Do you have much trouble with dutch elm out there? It seems in the last 5 years or so we've had another wave. I've cut a lot of elm that was alive when marked and dead when I cut it. And yeah, you're guna want a splitter for those... Or at least a twelver to loosen you up after your done hand splittin em!


----------



## Metals406

bitzer said:


> The red elm has a pretty red color as soon as you stump it. The color fades after a while, but this time of year its a pretty bright color. The bark is also super slippery on the inside. Do you have much trouble with dutch elm out there? It seems in the last 5 years or so we've had another wave. I've cut a lot of elm that was alive when marked and dead when I cut it. And yeah, you're guna want a splitter for those... Or at least a twelver to loosen you up after your done hand splittin em!



These weren't red, if anything the heart was a bit yellow on some of it.

The city of Kalispell has lost almost all of it's inventory of Elm to Dutch disease. Seems like every year that passes more of the trees get stumped and removed from being infected.

They're trying to curtail it, but it's hard to do. They're replacing the Elm with other species I guess, like Maple, Oak, Locust, Ash, Horse chestnut, etc.


----------



## bitzer

Metals406 said:


> These weren't red, if anything the heart was a bit yellow on some of it.
> 
> The city of Kalispell has lost almost all of it's inventory of Elm to Dutch disease. Seems like every year that passes more of the trees get stumped and removed from being infected.
> 
> They're trying to curtail it, but it's hard to do. They're replacing the Elm with other species I guess, like Maple, Oak, Locust, Ash, Horse chestnut, etc.



Yep that's probably American/Grey then. They're re-planting the ash and maple here with catalpa and oaks. All the city maple seem to be dying and then theres EAB.


----------



## twochains

bitzer- what the Hell are they planting catalpa for? If it weren't for the worms on it, I think it would be considered junk here.


----------



## treeslayer2003

i'm afraid there will be no more ash one day.


----------



## twochains

LMAO...there was one less big Ash after I got done with it today... :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## treeslayer2003

View attachment 302015
View attachment 302016

I thought this one deserved a pic. not very often get into white oak this long.


----------



## twochains

Heck yeh it deserved a pic! You are gonna be spoiled cutting that stuff! What is that trailer spread to?


----------



## treeslayer2003

twochains said:


> Heck yeh it deserved a pic! You are gonna be spoiled cutting that stuff! What is that trailer spread to?



spread out 3 holes, trees bout 65'. yes i'm spoiled on this tract, but to be honest its getting old leaving 70 percent. kinda lookin forward to...gasp, a clear cut or any thing I don't have to be so careful with. plus its hot n I can use the[dirty word] cutter on the pine i'm prolly goin to. I will miss those big sticks tho. I got a piece of big poplar for this fall.:msp_biggrin:


----------



## tramp bushler

treeslayer2003 said:


> well, there goes my idea of going there to escape the heat. where is it cool? the arctic I guess.



Not necessarily. Have to remember the sun doesn't set in the arctic and won't for another month or more. . It's like a desert up here there. , NO TREES SO NO SHADE TREES . It may be cooler than where u r. And if the ice fog rolls in it gets pretty chilly. . But hot, dry, dusty. Is the summer time rule in the arctic. . On the coast, where I am now its not quite too bad. Hasn't rained here for 5 weeks or so. . 

Don't blame carbon dioxide 
Blame the USAF. the H.A.A.R.P. is their baby. Along with their jets dumping all that crap out the back of them.


----------



## Hddnis

treeslayer2003 said:


> View attachment 302015
> View attachment 302016
> 
> I thought this one deserved a pic. not very often get into white oak this long.





Almost looks like a PNW log truck.:hmm3grin2orange:



Mr. HE


----------



## treeslayer2003

Hddnis said:


> Almost looks like a PNW log truck.:hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. HE



thanks, they nice for here. 8 on that load, I have cut some 5 count loads but not that clean.


----------



## Cfaller

Couple pics of a leaning DF I did a while back with a Coos Bay T. So is the amount of fiber pull in the pics typical?
View attachment 302155
View attachment 302156


----------



## treeslayer2003

Cfaller said:


> Couple pics of a leaning DF I did a while back with a Coos Bay T. So is the amount of fiber pull in the pics typical?
> View attachment 302155
> View attachment 302156



I dunno cfaller, looks like a lot to me. more than I could stand on the hardwood. I don't know pnw wood at all, maybe the other guys will be along soon.


----------



## bustedup

Cfaller said:


> Couple pics of a leaning DF I did a while back with a Coos Bay T. So is the amount of fiber pull in the pics typical?
> View attachment 302155
> View attachment 302156



Just my opinion but ya gonna get that with a T coos bay It the nature of the cut as really as ya know it to get heavy head leaners on the floor safely (or as safely as possible) without chairing them. 

The other coos cut -triangle- I (although never done it personally) have heard and seen pics of the hinge/heart being gutted (or partially so Bitz has posted pics of it) which will cut down on pull. I guess it personal preference (and size of timber/bar/saw ya using) which coos ya use but either way ya need a fast cutting saw and the ability to run quick if it goes tits up. But I'd suggest fiber pull is a possibility.

Ya could try the GOL way but that for others to do not me lol


----------



## Hddnis

Cfaller said:


> Couple pics of a leaning DF I did a while back with a Coos Bay T. So is the amount of fiber pull in the pics typical?
> View attachment 302155
> View attachment 302156





Not uncommon with so much uncut wood. 




Mr. HE


----------



## RandyMac

Cfaller said:


> Couple pics of a leaning DF I did a while back with a Coos Bay T. So is the amount of fiber pull in the pics typical?
> View attachment 302155
> View attachment 302156



On a heavy leaner, yeah, pretty much.


----------



## Gologit

Cfaller said:


> Couple pics of a leaning DF I did a while back with a Coos Bay T. So is the amount of fiber pull in the pics typical?
> View attachment 302155
> View attachment 302156



If it's leaning enough that a Coos Bay is necessary a little fiber pull isn't the end of the world. If the tree saved out you did alright.

You might try making your side notches a little lighter next time and maybe power through the back a little harder.

I've always had better luck with the Triangle...it's just faster and easier for me to match my cuts and it minimizes any extra moves. That's just me, though. Use what works best for you.


----------



## twochains

tramp bushler said:


> Hasn't rained here for 5 weeks or so. .
> Don't blame carbon dioxide
> Blame the USAF. the H.A.A.R.P. is their baby. Along with their jets dumping all that crap out the back of them.



Glen, check this pic out! This pic was taken by a friend of mine. Turns out it was circulated from weather channel to weather channel and made made it on some big league stations. This cloud is considered extremely rare.... H. A. A. R. P. much???

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...24676095.73073.100001305803995&type=3&theater


----------



## tramp bushler

I call this my Tree Hugger pic.


----------



## Cfaller

Gologit said:


> If it's leaning enough that a Coos Bay is necessary a little fiber pull isn't the end of the world. If the tree saved out you did alright.
> 
> You might try making your side notches a little lighter next time and maybe power through the back a little harder.
> 
> I've always had better luck with the Triangle...it's just faster and easier for me to match my cuts and it minimizes any extra moves. That's just me, though. Use what works best for you.


Thanks for all the advice. I also tired the triangle too. It was a lot less exciting then the T method. With the T you feel the tree coming apart in the handle bars!:msp_scared:
Not good! I will thicken the T up some and run at it harder next time I have a tree with some running room. :msp_biggrin:


----------



## tramp bushler

The problem with doing a lot of fancy stuff with heavy Leaners is it's real easy to get hung up in then they will sit on your tip so quick some times. Then ya have to get the powerheads off the bar in a hurry because sometimes what you cut is all it takes for it to start tearing apart. Which almost always costs you a bar. The triangle cut works. And like Bob said. If there leaning that heavy and you get them down and save the saw logs out you did well. 
Heavy Leaners make terrible lumber anyway. Great for chips tho.


----------



## HuskStihl

tramp bushler said:


> I call this my Tree Hugger pic.



If I was ever that high in a tree, I'd be in the same position. But I'd have poop in my pants and probably a ladder truck trying to get me down. Nice looking work


----------



## tramp bushler

HuskStihl said:


> If I was ever that high in a tree, I'd be in the same position. But I'd have poop in my pants and probably a ladder truck trying to get me down. Nice looking work



. I've found it is the easiest position to wiggle my spurs outof the tree. 
These are all young cottonwood. They are pretty soft so my gaff goes in pretty deep
Thanks :msp_smile:


----------



## roberte

tramp bushler said:


> The problem with doing a lot of fancy stuff with heavy Leaners is it's real easy to get hung up in then they will sit on your tip so quick some times. Then ya have to get the powerheads off the bar in a hurry because sometimes what you cut is all it takes for it to start tearing apart. Which almost always costs you a bar. The triangle cut works. And like Bob said. If there leaning that heavy and you get them down and save the saw logs out you did well.
> Heavy Leaners make terrible lumber anyway. Great for chips tho.



Heavy leaners do make horrible lumber, i can tell the difference


----------



## tramp bushler

I wonder if they peel any of them. Sometimes they hide some real junk inside plywood.


----------



## twochains

Heavily bowed logs saw bowed lumber. Being that you can't follow the grain due to the bow you end up with a straight piece of lumber with jacked up grain that seems like it is in a fight with all the rest of the grain...and usually bows as it dries.


----------



## roberte

tramp bushler said:


> I wonder if they peel any of them. Sometimes they hide some real junk inside plywood.



I would tend to think not, uneven rings, but Idk.
Plywood, now there is a throwback item .....


----------



## dooby

tramp bushler said:


> I wonder if they peel any of them. Sometimes they hide some real junk inside plywood.



plugs...plugs...plugs


----------



## 056 kid

HuskStihl said:


> If I was ever that high in a tree, I'd be in the same position. But I'd have poop in my pants and probably a ladder truck trying to get me down. Nice looking work



AAA, the first few are scary, then it turns into work.


----------



## tramp bushler

056 kid said:


> AAA, the first few are scary, then it turns into work.



For me its like driving on a slick 
road. Both pretty scary and a lot of fun. 
But it is a lot of hard work.! . Last week I cut around 2 cord of firewood while in the spurs and another close to 4 cord from the stobs. That's a bunch of cuts when you start at less than 5" tops 
.


----------



## mdavlee

Front yard stump I made today. Sycamore that was 84' tall.


----------



## mdavlee

Here's the other one. Both trees went within a foot of where I was aiming. The little Dutchman in the sycamore was on purpose. Both trees leaned 90 degrees from where they ended up.


----------



## HuskStihl

mdavlee said:


> . The little Dutchman in the sycamore was on purpose.



I had assumed that it was


----------



## Rounder

View attachment 302628


Did a little vacation up Northwest.....Enjoy the view....A lot more to life than killing damn trees.

Have a good, safe week, and a happy 4th - Sam


----------



## tramp bushler

I had a pretty short weekend home. Now I'm back at the Man Camp in Valdez ready for another week of up and down. A nice mist goin on. Will make for a more productive day if it keeps up.


----------



## twochains

Some pretty nice red oak sticks from today

View attachment 302729
View attachment 302730
View attachment 302731


----------



## twochains

Skidder OP being a lazy ass! 

View attachment 302735
View attachment 302736


----------



## treeslayer2003

twochains said:


> Some pretty nice red oak sticks from today
> 
> View attachment 302729
> View attachment 302730
> View attachment 302731



looks good man, 0 fiber pull. you would make a fine v'neer cutter. that's a nice stick really, little taper, clean, little sap wood.


----------



## twochains

Thanks slayer!


----------



## treeslayer2003

twochains said:


> Thanks slayer!



bark still slippin bad down yer way?


----------



## twochains

Hickory is still blowing apart, but it been pretty dry here for a bit and the bark is starting to stick better.


----------



## treeslayer2003

twochains said:


> Hickory is still blowing apart, but it been pretty dry here for a bit and the bark is starting to stick better.



oak tighten up here but poplar be bald if not careful.


----------



## HuskStihl

"You got a Purdy stump there boy, now squeal like a pig!"


----------



## Rounder

mdavlee said:


> Front yard stump I made today. Sycamore that was 84' tall.
> 
> Might think of getting a falling gig Mike.....Wives usually ain't to impressed when you start sport-falling the yard trees
> 
> -Sam


----------



## mdavlee

Rounder said:


> mdavlee said:
> 
> 
> 
> Front yard stump I made today. Sycamore that was 84' tall.
> 
> Might think of getting a falling gig Mike.....Wives usually ain't to impressed when you start sport-falling the yard trees
> 
> -Sam
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well she's OK with some of them. We were losing satellite signal when they bloomed. With the storms and wind we've had the past few years we want a bigger buffer around the house.
> 
> I would really like to tip a few 200' tall ones. Think you could sneak me in for a day?
Click to expand...


----------



## hammerlogging

I could slip you in on some 165 + footers in the right poplar patch, I'm only 2 hours away.


----------



## Trx250r180

mdavlee said:


> Rounder said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well she's OK with some of them. We were losing satellite signal when they bloomed. With the storms and wind we've had the past few years we want a bigger buffer around the house.
> 
> I would really like to tip a few 200' tall ones. Think you could sneak me in for a day?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> a day of pounding wedges on 200 footers ,you may be wishing otherwise
Click to expand...


----------



## mdavlee

hammerlogging said:


> I could slip you in on some 165 + footers in the right poplar patch, I'm only 2 hours away.



I may try to take you up on that Joe. If nothing else
maybe I could get some good pictures and video of a real pro. 






trx250r180 said:


> mdavlee said:
> 
> 
> 
> a day of pounding wedges on 200 footers ,you may be wishing otherwise
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You might be right. I would like to find out.
Click to expand...


----------



## Hddnis

mdavlee said:


> I may try to take you up on that Joe. If nothing else
> maybe I could get some good pictures and video of a real pro.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> trx250r180 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You might be right. I would like to find out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've got a deal I can't refuse, I'll do the cutting and you can pound the wedges. After a week or two, I prefer two, you can decide if you like it. I'm sure I'll like it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. HE
Click to expand...


----------



## northmanlogging

Here's a pretty little ceder I fell Saturday, got 2 32's and a 26' out of it zero center rot. Butt was around 34-36".


----------



## treeslayer2003

northmanlogging said:


> Here's a pretty little ceder I fell Saturday, got 2 32's and a 26' out of it zero center rot. Butt was around 34-36".



no cedar over here that nice. ya got a good market for that I bet.


----------



## twochains

northmanlogging said:


> Here's a pretty little ceder I fell Saturday, got 2 32's and a 26' out of it zero center rot. Butt was around 34-36".



Nice work! Looks real similar to our ERC, but I'm sure it's just a cousin.


----------



## northmanlogging

Wester Red Ceder/ Eastern Red Ceder? probably cousins by inbreeding...


The market out here is going nuts at the moment... last year I think ceder was around 500 mbf, last I checked it was up to 1000 per. Two years ago you couldn't give it away?

No complaints here, the ceder on this job is not very limby most of it is nice and straight without to much butt swell... calks are sticking real well and the limbs are jumping off...


----------



## treeslayer2003

northmanlogging said:


> Wester Red Ceder/ Eastern Red Ceder? probably cousins by inbreeding...
> 
> 
> The market out here is going nuts at the moment... last year I think ceder was around 500 mbf, last I checked it was up to 1000 per. Two years ago you couldn't give it away?
> 
> No complaints here, the ceder on this job is not very limby most of it is nice and straight without to much butt swell... calks are sticking real well and the limbs are jumping off...



hey ya get a little gravy once in a while. happy for ya.


----------



## Joe46

northmanlogging said:


> Wester Red Ceder/ Eastern Red Ceder? probably cousins by inbreeding...
> 
> 
> The market out here is going nuts at the moment... last year I think ceder was around 500 mbf, last I checked it was up to 1000 per. Two years ago you couldn't give it away?
> 
> No complaints here, the ceder on this job is not very limby most of it is nice and straight without to much butt swell... calks are sticking real well and the limbs are jumping off...



After looking at your picture, it looked like it came off the stump real nice, and without a lot of limbs. Good deal::msp_thumbup:


----------



## 1270d

Mobile Photobucket

Tried a coos bay on this leaner. Worked very well. You can see the butt in last pic.
http://m1275.photobucket.com/albumv...0703_141440_576_zps50af5a67.jpg.html?newest=1

http://m1275.photobucket.com/albumv...0703_141440_576_zps50af5a67.jpg.html?newest=1


----------



## mdavlee

Hddnis said:


> mdavlee said:
> 
> 
> 
> I may try to take you up on that Joe. If nothing else
> maybe I could get some good pictures and video of a real pro.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've got a deal I can't refuse, I'll do the cutting and you can pound the wedges. After a week or two, I prefer two, you can decide if you like it. I'm sure I'll like it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. HE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That sounds like a real deal for you
> I would like to come out west and check it out.
Click to expand...


----------



## tramp bushler

I did something today I had never done before. 
I used a double siswheel . Had a small young cottonwood . 35' tall. 10" on the stump. It grew on about a 65° angle maybe 60° it was about 18' away from a 2 story house that had a 3 yr old kid standing in a plate glass window watching me. 
I threw a pulling line up in it about 20' up. Had 470 lbs of ground men to pull on it after I had made sure that I myself could pull it over. . I bored in 2/3 through at the hinge and cut down about 8" then bored in again behind the first sis about 1.5" cut it down the same depth. Made sure the guys hadthe weight of the tree in hand. Then put in a real tall Sag face. Had them start pulling and backed the tree up. . It worked great. The tree didn't break off the stump till it was 15' or so off the ground in my intended lay. That 2 nd sis worked great. 
Sorry no pic. I even missed the septic clean out that was right next to the stump.


----------



## dooby

tramp bushler said:


> I did something today I had never done before.
> I used a double siswheel . Had a small young cottonwood . 35' tall. 10" on the stump. It grew on about a 65° angle maybe 60° it was about 18' away from a 2 story house that had a 3 yr old kid standing in a plate glass window watching me.
> I threw a pulling line up in it about 20' up. Had 470 lbs of ground men to pull on it after I had made sure that I myself could pull it over. . I bored in 2/3 through at the hinge and cut down about 8" then bored in again behind the first sis about 1.5" cut it down the same depth. Made sure the guys hadthe weight of the tree in hand. Then put in a real tall Sag face. Had them start pulling and backed the tree up. . It worked great. The tree didn't break off the stump till it was 15' or so off the ground in my intended lay. That 2 nd sis worked great.
> Sorry no pic. I even missed the septic clean out that was right next to the stump.



Hey Tramp- happy Fourth!!! i am far from knowing it all and cannot for the likes of me figure out what a siswheel is let alone a double. But i am out of grinds for the french press also.LOL. could you try to skool a r-neck:cool2: Maybe a scetch !!!


----------



## mdavlee

Happy 4th to everyone.


----------



## tramp bushler

. So, ya put in the face. Maybe throw in a kerf Dutchman then you bore in vertically just I front 
Of your holding wood on the pulling side. Bitzer and Cody have posted some good pics of siswheels . 

Cottonwoods are pretty brittle and I didn't want this tree breaking off before it got to its lay. So I put in a 2 nd sis a couple inch further back to help the holding wood flex without breaking.


----------



## tramp bushler

I can figure out how to do stuff with a tree. Drawing on a computer. , out of my league.


----------



## dooby

tramp bushler said:


> . So, ya put in the face. Maybe throw in a kerf Dutchman then you bore in vertically just I front
> Of your holding wood on the pulling side. Bitzer and Cody have posted some good pics of siswheels .
> 
> Cottonwoods are pretty brittle and I didn't want this tree breaking off before it got to its lay. So I put in a 2 nd sis a couple inch further back to help the holding wood flex without breaking.



Hmmmm.... Never heard it called a "siswheel" before. that was a lot better description. Out here we would just say throw in a"super dutchman" Or "bore the face on the Hold side". Now I can call it a Siswheel and will get some strange looks.LOL Thanks TB


----------



## treeslayer2003

don't feel bad doob, no one knows any cut names here. I've seen some dam good fallers and some that should never have picked up a saw, none of um would know whats goin on here. I have takin every thing I ever saw and heard and put in my bag. and i'm still learnin stuff from guys like tramp. I figure when I think I know everything it will be time to quit.


----------



## tramp bushler

Anyone that has tower logged on the west coast knows that you don't call a piece of wire rope a cable. Unless it is The Cable. Everyone of the sections of wire rope on a tower has a specific name. 

It's like the word face. You face a tree. You notch a stump. ( guyline, tail Holt ect. ) 
Language is important. God already confused the languages at the tower of Babel . No reason for us to do likewise. 
I've heard a siswheel referred to as a siswheel since 1991. And it been around since saw bars had tips on them that wound allow boring. The more of this a guy knows, the more he can do. The steadier he can work. 
I forget the guys handle. But he has a number of YT vids that demonstrate the siswheel. He wears a white shirt and no spenders. . ( I always wonder about a guy that doesn't wear spenders. But his cutting looks good.


----------



## tramp bushler

I couldn't find that guys. But here is Cody using one. I myself call this an Open Siswheel. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqIl7-ac0xw&feature=youtube_gdata_player

A sis gives your holding wood a lot more strength. Bitzer uses an open Siswheel a good bit too. He has posted quite a few pics of them.


----------



## treeslayer2003

tramp bushler said:


> Anyone that has tower logged on the west coast knows that you don't call a piece of wire rope a cable. Unless it is The Cable. Everyone of the sections of wire rope on a tower has a specific name.
> 
> It's like the word face. You face a tree. You notch a stump. ( guyline, tail Holt ect. )
> Language is important. God already confused the languages at the tower of Babel . No reason for us to do likewise.
> I've heard a siswheel referred to as a siswheel since 1991. And it been around since saw bars had tips on them that wound allow boring. The more of this a guy knows, the more he can do. The steadier he can work.
> I forget the guys handle. But he has a number of YT vids that demonstrate the siswheel. He wears a white shirt and no spenders. . ( I always wonder about a guy that doesn't wear spenders. But his cutting looks good.



speakin of bars, I remember when we run nothing but hardnose because of that. is it just the width that improved them? or sumthin else?


----------



## tramp bushler




----------



## tramp bushler




----------



## hammerlogging

ah, a super micro sis.

so where again did you put the second sis? essentially at the back of the hingewood?


----------



## tramp bushler

I fell these last winter. Nothin big but they fed the wood stove. I just opened the sis by an extra kerf. And on the 2 nd one I stepped the dutchman kerfs.


----------



## treeslayer2003

tramp bushler said:


>



this is the first view of that cut that makes sense to me, thanks tramp now I understand how that's supposed to work.


the cut goes in deeper than I thought.


----------



## treeslayer2003

so the sole purpose is to keep the holding wood from breaking, there by steering for longer through the fall.


----------



## bustedup

Tramp I was taught a type of cut similar to what you described but used it without the siz most of the time..........I was taught to face (either conventional or humbolt) then bore in vertical right under the apex to whatever degree (far in) ya want. We used it to allow the hinge to flex more and hold more when swinging one .....It won't swing as dramatically as the siz but it does allow a bit more than juss manipulating the hinge.......I've also gutted the hinge with that cut too leaving more on the pulling side (tension side) .......this may be as clear as mud and make no sense lol.


I think the dude on YT you mean is hotsaw101


----------



## treeslayer2003

now tramp, surely ya got trees there that love to bust or chair. would a siswheel be appropriate on them or to risky?


----------



## tramp bushler

treeslayer2003 said:


> speakin of bars, I remember when we run nothing but hardnose because of that. is it just the width that improved them? or sumthin else?




I think it was a learning curve on the bar makers part. Narrow tips are easier to bore with but they throw the chain more. The radius of the current 1 rivet Oregon tip. And the Windsor, Sugi Hara, ect. Is about identicle. They are at this point the best combo of geometry.


----------



## tramp bushler

treeslayer2003 said:


> so the sole purpose is to keep the holding wood from breaking, there by steering for longer through the fall.



Yup. Keep it hooked to the stump as the thee swings so the face can do its job.


----------



## treeslayer2003

tramp bushler said:


> I think it was a learning curve on the bar makers part. Narrow tips are easier to bore with but they throw the chain more. The radius of the current 1 rivet Oregon tip. And the Windsor, Sugi Hara, ect. Is about identicle. They are at this point the best combo of geometry.



I guess i'm weird, I prefer the wide. but I am interested in learning more about this siswheel.


----------



## tramp bushler

hammerlogging said:


> ah, a super micro sis.
> 
> so where again did you put the second sis? essentially at the back of the hingewood?




Yes.


----------



## tramp bushler

treeslayer2003 said:


> now tramp, surely ya got trees there that love to bust or chair. would a siswheel be appropriate on them or to risky?



You only need a siswheel or sizwheel how ever its spelt, when you do. . I've never encountered a tree that needed a siz that I was worried about it chairing. . They will pull roots tho so until a guy is good buddies with them ya gotta be able to get away from the stump. 
A sis helps a crappy tree stay on the stump and not just shear off its holding wood then take off 90° to the face. 
Like how Cody used it in the vid. He had a tree that needed all the help he could give it to keep it from destroying buildings. 
Siswheels are essentially a professional fallers trick to keep from beating wedges while keeping his timber in lead the way it should be without beating wedges.


----------



## treeslayer2003

yup, stump pull is fine. I wind up with that a lot. its fiber pull out of the first log I want to avoid as that costs me money. I realize maximum steerage comes with a price sometimes. just always lookin for better ways. and to quote randy, I run from all of um and always have. thanks for your patience tramp, much appriceated.


----------



## bustedup

What I was dribbling about here a sketch lol 


added kerfs on one it on the opposite side to the normal soft dutch kerfs I found it didn't bust out quite as much as a siz can but I guess just a variation ......mind ya you prolly think it nuts View attachment 303186


----------



## tramp bushler

Ya, that looks like it works. I guess I'm fortunate that I get to practice in the brush and once I've got things down pat I can use them next to someones house. 
But in point of fact I don't free fall much in town. . Taking them down from the top is usually the safe way t go.


----------



## twochains

Pine video. opcorn:

pine vid - YouTube


----------



## tramp bushler

You sure do work hard Clint. I don't understand how your go pro is mounted. . Or you ought to be looking up more. If your maintaining that pace all day and your working 10 hours on the saw I hope your making 700$ a day or more. 
Are they logging them tree length? 

Nice looking work. But you are putting out a lot of effort back barring in those faces.


----------



## treeslayer2003

14 a week, you are boogying by yourself. you don't think ya gonna do that 10 years from now do ya?


----------



## twochains

I guess we will see, I have no retirement fund :msp_w00t:


----------



## treeslayer2003

twochains said:


> I guess we will see, I have no retirement fund :msp_w00t:



me neither, work till I drop prolly.


----------



## jrcat

Retirement? what is that? Work till yer dead and sleep when yer dead.


----------



## bitzer

Heres a couple of sizwheels. Red Oak and White Ash. I have never had one chair although they will split a little. You do what you have to do to keep em in the boundry or whatever it is you are doing. Lesser of two evils kind of thing. I've used them on maples, red and white oak, ash, hickory, beech, pretty much everything. I almost always use a snipe with it. Using one with a ducthman and a root flair for pulling is fun.

Treeslayer- we have all the same ash here that you have. Its how you face them that puts them on the ground without splitting.

Tramp- I've never tried Cody's angled face sizwheel. I first learned about it from Burvol and take the piece of pie out of the stump to expose the fibers. Its two vertical bores to get the triangular piece out.

Hope everyone had a good fourth!

View attachment 303388

View attachment 303389

View attachment 303390

View attachment 303391


----------



## jrcat

Nice work Bitz!!


----------



## treeslayer2003

you do good work bitz, no doubt about that. on the ash, I have noticed about every shot of it on here, it has a large hart. ours has no hart, bout like a pencil. its usualy pretty wet inside to.


----------



## twochains

Nice bitzer!

slayer- yeh same here on the Ash having a really small heart. Ours is almost solid white with a 2in heart, even at a 2ft butt.


----------



## treeslayer2003

I was able to finely watch Clint's vid. what are ya'll on about? that saw is doin a fine job. Clint ya doin fine. only thing is i'd like to see you slow down jus a little and clean around um a little better. them little sticks will get ya in trouble, and the vines. I seen ya cut one off. you doin fine my friend jus slow up jus a little and watch those little sticks at the stump, they grab ya chain n cause trouble. you would be a pleasure to drag behind.


----------



## Rounder

jrcat said:


> Retirement? what is that? Work till yer dead and sleep when yer dead.



#### that.....too many trout to catch, grouse to flush and elk to kill......

-Hope you all had a good 4th, have a good, safe week - Sam


----------



## northmanlogging

Little spring board fun... still haven't assembled the ones I made... branches work in a pinch though.


----------



## Cfaller

northmanlogging said:


> Little spring board fun... still haven't assembled the ones I made... branches work in a pinch though.



One like this one.:cool2:

View attachment 303486


----------



## tramp bushler

bitzer said:


> Heres a couple of sizwheels. Red Oak and White Ash. I have never had one chair although they will split a little. You do what you have to do to keep em in the boundry or whatever it is you are doing. Lesser of two evils kind of thing. I've used them on maples, red and white oak, ash, hickory, beech, pretty much everything. I almost always use a snipe with it. Using one with a ducthman and a root flair for pulling is fun.
> 
> Treeslayer- we have all the same ash here that you have. Its how you face them that puts them on the ground without splitting.
> 
> Tramp- I've never tried Cody's angled face sizwheel. I first learned about it from Burvol and take the piece of pie out of the stump to expose the fibers. Its two vertical bores to get the triangular piece out.
> 
> Hope everyone had a good fourth!
> 
> View attachment 303388
> 
> View attachment 303389
> 
> View attachment 303390
> 
> View attachment 303391



Ya Bob; I see what you mean. I do mine just a bore cut or 2 . Wednesday was the first time that I used a double siz and it worked great for the tree I had.


----------



## bitzer

tramp bushler said:


> Ya Bob; I see what you mean. I do mine just a bore cut or 2 . Wednesday was the first time that I used a double siz and it worked great for the tree I had.



I've put a sizwheel in and then vertically bored behind the hinge several inches to define the holding wood and that worked well. I suppose there is no chance for a picture of those stumps you made huh? Probably long gone. You'll have to get a pic up. The angled face Cody put in to expose the fibers looks like its a lot eaiser to put in and gives the fibers more room to bend, but I like to keep my face angle square to my lay. I'm not sure how an angled face would effect that or maybe the amount of fiber bend cancels out the face a little. Either way you can always cut it off before it goes to far.


----------



## bitzer

Found a couple more pics. Both red oaks.

Heres where I vertically bored in behind the hinge wood to define the hinge.











Slayer- I looked for a small heart ash pic and couldn't really find one. I've cut plenty of them, guess I've never taken a pic though. Usually the upland ash have the smaller hearts. I cut around 200mbf of swamp ash last year and probably another of 150mbf of upland ash. The upland is White Ash and I believe the low land is Green. They look almost the same to me. I've also cut a lot of Black Ash. Cool looking wood if you can find a sound one. 

Anyway they will all chair or at least split pretty easily if not careful. I almost always put a snipe opposite my face and bore the heart wood on the ash. Its amazing what you can really get away with. Ash usually behaves on the stump pretty well if you've got it cut up right. This pic is almost 2 years old. I was on top of a hill and it was WAY too windy to be cutting. The tree rocked back and pinched my bar in the back cut and then a big gust came and blew it hard forward. By the time I got to cutting it was already splitting. 





View attachment 303511

View attachment 303513

View attachment 303514


----------



## treeslayer2003

bitzer said:


> Found a couple more pics. Both red oaks.
> 
> Heres where I vertically bored in behind the hinge wood to define the hinge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Slayer- I looked for a small heart ash pic and couldn't really find one. I've cut plenty of them, guess I've never taken a pic though. Usually the upland ash have the smaller hearts. I cut around 200mbf of swamp ash last year and probably another of 150mbf of upland ash. The upland is White Ash and I believe the low land is Green. They look almost the same to me. I've also cut a lot of Black Ash. Cool looking wood if you can find a sound one.
> 
> Anyway they will all chair or at least split pretty easily if not careful. I almost always put a snipe opposite my face and bore the heart wood on the ash. Its amazing what you can really get away with. Ash usually behaves on the stump pretty well if you've got it cut up right. This pic is almost 2 years old. I was on top of a hill and it was WAY too windy to be cutting. The tree rocked back and pinched my bar in the back cut and then a big gust came and blew it hard forward. By the time I got to cutting it was already splitting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 303511
> 
> View attachment 303513
> 
> View attachment 303514



I have never seen that type of bore behind the hinge, looks pretty but what does it do? your running a stihl. yup, seen um do that plenty. seen a lot of guys that jus can't cut it. usualy they get jumpy n leave the cut to soon cuz they heard it crackin. a lot of wood will do that here, I jus thought it like that every where. we got in some really straight grained white oak when I was young. ol man got 6 diff. guys to try it n all of um busted trees but one. he was cutting with ol homelite but he went about it diff. than the rest. I cut some trees once I thought where black gum, got paid for ash. maybe they were black ash? that wind will get ya.


----------



## bitzer

First Vacation since I went full time on the biz two years ago. Four beautiful days. Kids swimming and fishing. Walleyes and Smallies right off the dock. Throwin a few back around the fire at night and bull####tin with my brothers, dad, and uncle. Good times. 





This area was cut about a hundred years ago when they put the rail in. The white pine on the left is about 32" dbh and the red oak on the right maybe 24" dbh. Pretty good mix of white and red pine, red oak and maple. The red oaks are pretty decent looking although they have a slitghtly different form from home. The soft and hard maples are pretty small and ugly. Kind of a rolling hills in this area that looks just like home. 






Treeslayer- An older pic of a black ash. Not a great pic, but they usually have a pretty dark heart and smoothish bark that kind of rubs off. You will find them where its pretty wet. 






View attachment 303520

View attachment 303521

View attachment 303519


----------



## treeslayer2003

bitzer said:


> First Vacation since I went full time on the biz two years ago. Four beautiful days. Kids swimming and fishing. Walleyes and Smallies right off the dock. Throwin a few back around the fire at night and bull####tin with my brothers, dad, and uncle. Good times.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This area was cut about a hundred years ago when they put the rail in. The white pine on the left is about 32" dbh and the red oak on the right maybe 24" dbh. Pretty good mix of white and red pine, red oak and maple. The red oaks are pretty decent looking although they have a slitghtly different form from home. The soft and hard maples are pretty small and ugly. Kind of a rolling hills in this area that looks just like home.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Treeslayer- An older pic of a black ash. Not a great pic, but they usually have a pretty dark heart and smoothish bark that kind of rubs off. You will find them where its pretty wet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 303520
> 
> View attachment 303521
> 
> View attachment 303519



looks like ya had a great time. seems like I've seen them on river banks, small n crooked tho.


----------



## HuskStihl

I gotta say Bitz, you really make la nice looking face cut. That sizwheel looks like something you'd see in a book. I'd love a slow motion video of that rotating, closing the sis, and going over. That is not a request!


----------



## bitzer

Thanks Jon and TS! 

TS- The biggest sound black ash I've cut might have been 30" on the stump. Its tough to find a decent one. I've heard that it was sold as a mock walnut to the Japanese years ago. That vertical bore behind the hinge makes sure that the hinge wood will bend instead of break off. Sometimes the wood will just snap and there really isn't much of a swing. 

Jon- I've thought about it many times. I will get a video of an up close one eventually. I've always liked to see one that was done right over a root and have the root tear out too.


----------



## twochains

I been playing around with some vids I shot Saturday morning, I put like 4 short vids together trying to get familiar with the You Tube free editor..kinda fun actually. You can tell where they are spliced but I will get better at it maybe.

Well here ya go opcorn:

Morning in the pine - YouTube


----------



## HuskStihl

twochains said:


> I been playing around with some vids I shot Saturday morning, I put like 4 short vids together trying to get familiar with the You Tube free editor..kinda fun actually. You can tell where they are spliced but I will get better at it maybe.
> 
> Well here ya go opcorn:
> 
> Morning in the pine - YouTube



Hey TC, nice video. Very smooth and well thought out. If you wind the starter spring one revolution the saw will perform better

Don't listen to the guys telling you to look up more. It makes me dizzy:jester:

I likes the splicing. Your best work to date. You may need to bring me in for a cameo apearance (in my red jock) as all this smooth falling is kinda boring. Itd be more like "real world"' or "jersey shore" if I was helping. Bad for production, good for ratings!:cool2:


----------



## twochains

LULLZ! You should send me one of yer hot saws and let me fall a big set for a vid! LOL!


----------



## tramp bushler

Looks great Clint. Just keep lookin up. :msp_rolleyes:


----------



## twochains

I cut a big set of oak bore kill today. Here are some random pics.

View attachment 303655
View attachment 303657
View attachment 303661


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## twochains

tramp bushler said:


> Looks great Clint. Just keep lookin up. :msp_rolleyes:



Thanks Glen! I forgot to answer you about how my camera is mounted. The camera is a Contour 1080P. They are a side mounted camera unlike the GoPro. I mount the camera to my headlamp strap, this way I am not knocking it off in the heavy brush.

View attachment 303663


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## treeslayer2003

twochains said:


> I cut a big set of oak bore kill today. Here are some random pics.
> 
> View attachment 303655
> View attachment 303657
> View attachment 303661



looks more like gypsy moth to me, I don't see any holes in the butt. could be you n I call the same thing by a diff. name? good work as usual.


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## twochains

I saw several mature solid black beetles coming out of the sap wood, timber is dying top down. The beetles must just stay in the sap wood...IDK really.


----------



## treeslayer2003

twochains said:


> I saw several mature solid black beetles coming out of the sap wood, timber is dying top down. The beetles must just stay in the sap wood...IDK really.



what size are these beetles? they all black?


----------



## twochains

treeslayer2003 said:


> what size are these beetles? they all black?



The beetles I saw were black as the Ace of Spades. They were probably an inch long. I saw them come directly out of the sap wood. I should have taken some pics but my kit was stashed. I will get some pics of them 2moro, I will be right in the same area for a bit.


----------



## treeslayer2003

twochains said:


> The beetles I saw were black as the Ace of Spades. They were probably an inch long. I saw them come directly out of the sap wood. I should have taken some pics but my kit was stashed. I will get some pics of them 2moro, I will be right in the same area for a bit.



hmm, not sure what that is. they don't look to be dead more than a couple years. what I call a bore goes in the stump and cuts a tunnel up thru the tree big enuf to put ya finger in. gypsy moth worms defoliate the tree n kill it.


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## treeslayer2003

it jus the white oak isin't it?


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## twochains

No, mostly the red oaks.


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## bitzer

Clint- you have oak wilt down there?


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## twochains

bitzer said:


> Clint- you have oak wilt down there?



I don't think so bitzer. However when I cut in a large deadening like that and the dogwoods are dead also...the dogwood leaves will appear to be wilted and have a white looking haze on them.


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## bitzer

twochains said:


> I don't think so bitzer. However when I cut in a large deadening like that and the dogwoods are dead also...the dogwood leaves will appear to be wilted and have a white looking haze on them.



I'm pretty sure oak wilt only effects the oaks. Reds die within weeks. Whites make it longer, sometimes surviving. Its introduced by a beetle that leaves a fungus behind on an open wound of a tree. After that it can pass through root grafts and kill an entire stand.


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## twochains

Well I would say that it isn't wilt then. The red oaks here die from the top down. It takes 2 years to complete death. I think it is typical oak bore kill combined with drought. I will get some pics of the beetles in the morning. I noticed several of them today..I have seen them before but haven't ever actually sen them come out of the timber before.


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## tramp bushler

Well I only got 2 singles and a 3 for 1 today. The Husky Pole Saw sure is a time and work saver. 
Cut about 3/4 cord of small alder , willow, mountain ash and young cottonwood. . Finally getting the groundies to stack the brush butts toward the chipper . They will thank me later .


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## tramp bushler

I know, wrong thread, sorry.
But I did fall the stobs with a 288 . Full wrap. 32" Oregon 3 rivet 404 full skip that Used to be chisel ground. ( till I rocked it good cutting a stump flush) 
I really do need to turn it up. I have to get the bar almost full in the cut for it to quit bluddering. It is really cool. I wish it was dual ported. And had a Pro Tek air filter. Right now its pretty loud and sounds like a rock crusher or a truck load of culvert ends dumped off a rock bluff. 

The groundies don't understand why sometimes I just hold er wide open and smile....


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## HuskStihl

tramp bushler said:


> I know, wrong thread, sorry.
> But I did fall the stobs with a 288 . Full wrap. 32" Oregon 3 rivet 404 full skip that Used to be chisel ground. ( till I rocked it good cutting a stump flush)
> I really do need to turn it up. I have to get the bar almost full in the cut for it to quit bluddering. It is really cool. I wish it was dual ported. And had a Pro Tek air filter. Right now its pretty loud and sounds like a rock crusher or a truck load of culvert ends dumped off a rock bluff.
> 
> The groundies don't understand why sometimes I just hold er wide open and smile....



Is that the same setup Pac runs? I know he has that super-cool hi-top blue filter. You run both, which is stronger, a 288 or 390? That should be pretty much apples to apples. I thought you got treated pretty shabbily by one or two of those "dexies midnight runners" looking climbers. Pretty sure they'd talk different of they were face to face.


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## tramp bushler

I ran about 2 1/2 tanks thru the 288 today. This one is little used but old. It is pre decompression valve. So. I gotta man up to start it. . And it has the rubber mounts instead of the spring mounts. And the small filter. But I think its a toss up as to which one out cuts the other. At this point I just don't see good enuf reasonwhy they quit making the 288 . My 390 has about the same vibration, except for the throttle. 
I really like the 390 but I Really liked the 288 .


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## HuskStihl

I just got my low top, masterminded 394 in the mail today. A very nice looking boat anchor, this thing is going to be great for my upper body strength! Video coming thursday:msp_biggrin:


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## tramp bushler

Now, if the 390 was turning up14'500 rpm and producing 7 1/2 or 8 horse. Then, boy wede be WHINDINONER. Ye Haw, let's have er boys.


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## JakeG

HuskStihl said:


> I just got my low top, masterminded 394 in the mail today. A very nice looking boat anchor, this thing is going to be great for my upper body strength! Video coming thursday:msp_biggrin:



I like this so much I had to quote it.  My 394 will be stock minus the base gasket, we'll have to see how bad yours puts a hurtin' on mine. Slowly but surely we're working towards a TXGTG.


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## tramp bushler

HuskStihl said:


> I just got my low top, masterminded 394 in the mail today. A very nice looking boat anchor, this thing is going to be great for my upper body strength! Video coming thursday:msp_biggrin:



Just remember Jon. Whatever your 385 does in the way of kick back pull in and push out, the 394 can do a lot more. Specially after Mastermind massaged it. . Keep your thumbs wrapped around those handles. 

You have moved into the real deal powerful saws and tho they are lots of fun. They just really take a lot of attention paying. My first 3 ,394 s were low top. And none of my high tops out cut the 2 low top Ace Morgan saws I had. . As you haven't spent a lot of time hanging onto 2100 s you may not appreciate how smooth the 394 is. But they are sweet. You do have the full wrap hb don't u. 
Good man. WTG.


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## twochains

HuskStihl said:


> I just got my low top, masterminded 394 in the mail today. A very nice looking boat anchor, this thing is going to be great for my upper body strength! Video coming thursday:msp_biggrin:



Oh please oh please send it to me for a weekend!!! Please please! I'll set the new rings for ya! LOL!


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## twochains

Here some pics of some really nice oak from down in a drawl I cut this morning. One of the trees had (6) 9'4 tie cuts the rest had 4 to 5 cuts!

View attachment 303985
View attachment 303987
View attachment 303989
View attachment 303990


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## twochains

A couple more...the pine was nearly 75' of log cut off at 10"

View attachment 303996
View attachment 303997
View attachment 303998


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## dooby

twochains said:


> Here some pics of some really nice oak from down in a drawl I cut this morning. One of the trees had (6) 9'4 tie cuts the rest had 4 to 5 cuts!
> 
> View attachment 303985
> View attachment 303987
> View attachment 303989
> View attachment 303990



looks awful snaky in there ! And you really cut w' no shirt on ? In all that brush ? Did ya get yer new 660 yet ?


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## twochains

LOL! Yeh...no shirt till after Thanksgiving at least...keeps me from tearing my shirts up! LOL! Yeh, snakey for sure, that is rattlesnake country in there! Haven't seen one yet though...there will be pics when I do, I promise ya that! :cool2:


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## tramp bushler

Code:







twochains said:


> Here some pics of some really nice oak from down in a drawl I cut this morning. One of the trees had (6) 9'4 tie cuts the rest had 4 to 5 cuts!
> 
> View attachment 303985
> View attachment 303987
> View attachment 303989
> View attachment 303990




Clint ; that looks nice. You laid them out real nice.


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## twochains

Thanks Glen! That set is full of greatness, really nice timber down in there. I cut three tanks in there before I moved out to fall some off a ridge line up at the top of that area. Most of what I took pics of was a property line, I was just trying to see what the area holds for me for 2moro...looks like an awesome day of falling for 2moro! Thanks again Glen, hope all is well in God's country!


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## treeslayer2003

twochains said:


> Here some pics of some really nice oak from down in a drawl I cut this morning. One of the trees had (6) 9'4 tie cuts the rest had 4 to 5 cuts!
> 
> View attachment 303985
> View attachment 303987
> View attachment 303989
> View attachment 303990



pretty work my friend. them nice oak, looks like what I been cutting. they'd grade well.


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## Metals406

twochains said:


> Thanks Glen! That set is full of greatness, really nice timber down in there. I cut three tanks in there before I moved out to fall some off a ridge line up at the top of that area. Most of what I took pics of was a property line, I was just trying to see what the area holds for me for 2moro...looks like an awesome day of falling for 2moro! Thanks again Glen, hope all is well in God's country!



Are you day wage'n or hourly?


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## HuskStihl

tramp bushler said:


> Just remember Jon. Whatever your 385 does in the way of kick back pull in and push out, the 394 can do a lot more. Specially after Mastermind massaged it. . Keep your thumbs wrapped around those handles.
> 
> You have moved into the real deal powerful saws and tho they are lots of fun. They just really take a lot of attention paying. My first 3 ,394 s were low top. And none of my high tops out cut the 2 low top Ace Morgan saws I had. . As you haven't spent a lot of time hanging onto 2100 s you may not appreciate how smooth the 394 is. But they are sweet. You do have the full wrap hb don't u.
> Good man. WTG.


Glen,
I appreciate your concern and advice. Sadly, it won't get used much. Mostly a stumper. It was one of those put a low- ball bid on eBay after a few beers. Never seriously thought I'd get it for the price. I was planning on sending the 385 to randy this fall, and figured there was no real point in two 7hp saws. Now I have a 6hp and an 8hp so perfect! I talk a big game, but am pretty scared of saws and trees, so I'm usually pretty careful. The 385 is perfect for my needs, but the man in me wanted a saw that only the most die hard stihl-heads and Mac guys would trash talk. If I fell or bucked for a living I'd prolly run a ported 044 or 372. All you guys who say big saws don't get heavy must me a hell of a lot stronger than me


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## HuskStihl

twochains said:


> Oh please oh please send it to me for a weekend!!! Please please! I'll set the new rings for ya! LOL!



I went to autozone today and bought six different kinds of waxes and polishes for the 394. What does that tell you?:msp_thumbsup:


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## twochains

Yeh...It does... yer gonna wax it and set it on yer shelf and pet it... :msp_thumbdn: no really...


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## HuskStihl

tramp bushler said:


> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Clint ; that looks nice. You laid them out real nice.



Clint, that's high praise and you deserve it. I haven't known Tramp to say things he doesn't mean. Good work:msp_thumbsup:


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## twochains

Metals406 said:


> Are you day wage'n or hourly?



Metals, for me to answer that would be a lose lose...too many negatives could be thrown at me. All I will say is I try really hard and I am an excellent self motivator plus....I take alot of pride in what I do and I am not afraid to put in more hours than necessary to make who ever I am employed by, money #1 and proud to have me #2. :msp_thumbup:


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## Metals406

twochains said:


> Metals, for me to answer that would be a lose lose...too many negatives could be thrown at me. All I will say is I try really hard and I am an excellent self motivator plus....I take alot of pride in what I do and I am not afraid to put in more hours than necessary to make who ever I am employed by, money #1 and proud to have me #2. :msp_thumbup:



I asked, cause you're always cut'n like you're bushel'n -- and you don't seem to be too sloppy with your speed.

So, the logical conclusion is you're making your boss money. 

Didn't mean to get personal about yer finances.


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## twochains

Ha, no offense taken, I get a little nervous about what some people on here think of me...I over think things and I feel I open myself up for criticism. LOL! I could totally see a couple guys on here say something like..."You get paid for that BS...who cuts like that anyway?" LOL! 

But seriously Metals...no offenses taken and I greatly appreciate your compliments! Thanks man!


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## tramp bushler

twochains said:


> Ha, no offense taken, I get a little nervous about what some people on here think of me...I over think things and I feel I open myself up for criticism. LOL! I could totally see a couple guys on here say something like..."You get paid for that BS...who cuts like that anyway?" LOL!
> 
> But seriously Metals...no offenses taken and I greatly appreciate your compliments! Thanks man!




Clint. For as many fallers who are on here and countless more. We all have our own personal style of how we get it on the ground. . However any good faller can be seen by his work. 
It looks like you get it all on the ground ( no small feat in select loggin) its laid out so it can be logged without problems. And from what I've seen you get your cuts off with no alligators. 
Anyone starts giving you a ration of s#!+ tell em ta, well you know. 

My only concern for you is the long hours on the trigger. . 
Remember, the trick is to retire and still be able to walk up right. You have ALOT more millions of feet of timber to cut in your life. .


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## treeslayer2003

:agree2: yea, everything he said


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## JakeG

Couple from today... a 22" and 18" pine.

Can't wait for the 394, should be fun with a 24"  ....At least until my arms go numb.


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## treeslayer2003

looks good Jake, where they back leaners? if not then ya don't need the big step in yer back cut. it only helps on leaners to give ya a second to get away if the hinge breaks. were they dead? ya did pretty good tho.


----------



## bustedup

tramp bushler said:


> Clint. For as many fallers who are on here and countless more. We all have our own personal style of how we get it on the ground. . However any good faller can be seen by his work.
> It looks like you get it all on the ground ( no small feat in select loggin) its laid out so it can be logged without problems. And from what I've seen you get your cuts off with no alligators.
> Anyone starts giving you a ration of s#!+ tell em ta, well you know.
> 
> My only concern for you is the long hours on the trigger. .
> Remember, the trick is to retire and still be able to walk up right. You have ALOT more millions of feet of timber to cut in your life. .



spot on Tramp ........we keep telling him to slow down a bit or he'll burn out or worse get hurt


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## Metals406

treeslayer2003 said:


> looks good Jake, where they back leaners? if not then ya don't need the big step in yer back cut. it only helps on leaners to give ya a second to get away if the hinge breaks. were they dead? ya did pretty good tho.



You can see the dead fiber, and the bark is slip'n. Good eye!


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## treeslayer2003

Metals406 said:


> You can see the dead fiber, and the bark is slip'n. Good eye!



ha ha, well from a distance maybe. or jus seen so many pine, it jus second nature.


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## Metals406

treeslayer2003 said:


> ha ha, well from a distance maybe. or jus seen so many pine, it just second nature.



I reckon that southern pine dies about the same as ours does -- that brown powder for cambium, and the bark just sluffs off.


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## treeslayer2003

Metals406 said:


> I reckon that southern pine dies about the same as ours does -- that brown powder for cambium, and the bark just sluffs off.



yea, they don't last long either. gotta do sumthin with um within a few months or they get dody. now Virginia pine hard as a rock.


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## JakeG

Yes sir, like a bunch of loblolly pines, they've been dead for a while. And thanks for the words and wisdom!

The smaller of the two was a heavy back leaner for the first 40', the last 30' took off to the right (when standing behind the stump). It's nice when the widow makers are far from the stump.. But not cool when falling against the lean. I had a tension line on this one to dodge the neighboring property. 

The other pine had slight back lean but otherwise straight. I'm big on the wedges but decided to give her ago without as the risk was nill. 

This ten acres has produced a touch under 60-65 dead pines and 16-18 dead oaks. Needless to say, I've been sharpening my ass off.


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## treeslayer2003

JakeG said:


> Yes sir, like a bunch of loblolly pines, they've been dead for a while. And thanks for the words and wisdom!
> 
> The smaller of the two was a heavy back leaner for the first 40', the last 30' took off to the right (when standing behind the stump). It's nice when the widow makers are far from the stump.. But not cool when falling against the lean. I had a tension line on this one to dodge the neighboring property.
> 
> The other pine had slight back lean but otherwise straight. I'm big on the wedges but decided to give her ago without as the risk was nill.
> 
> This ten acres has produced a touch under 60-65 dead pines and 16-18 dead oaks. Needless to say, I've been sharpening my ass off.



good idea with the step on the pulled ones then. I have put in a backwards step when pulling or pushing hard. you selling the dead timber?


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## JakeG

treeslayer2003 said:


> good idea with the step on the pulled ones then. I have put in a backwards step when pulling or pushing hard. you selling the dead timber?



Not having a skidder makes skidding a pain. The ole JD 310C (backhoe/loader), one log at a time takes forever... Thus the wood has been on the ground for a 10-14 days. Full of beetles I imagine. I bucked them up in 12'9"-13' sections discarding anything smaller than 10-12". 90% of the wood is in the center of the property.


----------



## treeslayer2003

JakeG said:


> Not having a skidder makes skidding a pain. The ole JD 310C (backhoe/loader), one log at a time takes forever... Thus the wood has been on the ground for a 10-14 days. Full of beetles I imagine. I bucked them up in 12'9"-13' sections discarding anything smaller than 10-12". 90% of the wood is in the center of the property.



oh yea, that's the way it goes woods ain't easy. did ya call the mill n ask what lenth they want? good on ya for cutting um long, always leave plenty trim.


----------



## JakeG

I tried playing the mill game. One was a small timer, only take free logs. One other wouldn't deal with an individual. Another wanted the wood dropped a delivered within a couple of days. 

Do y'all think the wood will do for a pulpwood mill? Remember, it's been on the ground anywhere from a week to 3 weeks. I can try contacting a self loader.. Unfortunately he cannot pull right up to the landing. So I'd have to pull the wood out. It's not far from the road, maybe 100 yards... But no skidder

I might end up burning the pine and making rounds out of the oak. It'll make good smoking wood (eventually)... Not that I know how to use a smoker.


----------



## treeslayer2003

JakeG said:


> I tried playing the mill game. One was a small timer, only take free logs. One other wouldn't deal with an individual. Another wanted the wood dropped a delivered within a couple of days.
> 
> Do y'all think the wood will do for a pulpwood mill? Remember, it's been on the ground anywhere from a week to 3 weeks. I can try contacting a self loader.. Unfortunately he cannot pull right up to the landing. So I'd have to pull the wood out. It's not far from the road, maybe 100 yards... But no skidder
> 
> I might end up burning the pine and making rounds out of the oak. It'll make good smoking wood (eventually)... Not that I know how to use a smoker.



the wood on the ground ain't an issue. but if its already doety they won't want it. mills are leary of new guys, try to see a logger n ask him for advice on dealing with yer local mill.


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## JakeG

treeslayer2003 said:


> the wood on the ground ain't an issue. but if its already doety they won't want it. mills are leary of new guys, try to see a logger n ask him for advice on dealing with yer local mill.



I figured beetles would make it undesireable for saw logs and marginal for pulpwood. I'll see what I can do to find a logger. This area is more geared towards land clearing and concrete pouring.


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## 036Pro

This guy comes highly recommended by many:msp_thumbsup:... Watch & enjoy! Thanks! 
Luc Beaulac - YouTube


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## dooby

JakeG said:


> I tried playing the mill game. One was a small timer, only take free logs. One other wouldn't deal with an individual. Another wanted the wood dropped a delivered within a couple of days.
> 
> Do y'all think the wood will do for a pulpwood mill? Remember, it's been on the ground anywhere from a week to 3 weeks. I can try contacting a self loader.. Unfortunately he cannot pull right up to the landing. So I'd have to pull the wood out. It's not far from the road, maybe 100 yards... But no skidder
> 
> I might end up burning the pine and making rounds out of the oak. It'll make good smoking wood (eventually)... Not that I know how to use a smoker.



You seriously don't use that punky pine for smokin', do ya?:bang: OOps !! re-read this, hope it's the Oak yer smokin'


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## 056 kid

Couple hemlocks. Both needed wedges.


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## 056 kid

.


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## Trx250r180

056 kid said:


> .


why the notch on the back cut side ? beer holder while cutting ?


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## 056 kid

Jack seat.


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## Trx250r180

056 kid said:


> Jack seat.




that's kind of what i thought ,ones iv'e seen done are in middle of back cut not side ,were you trying to steer it another direction ?


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## JakeG

Trx250r180 said:


> why the notch on the back cut side ? beer holder while cutting ?



Probably jacked it over. I'm guessing the back lean was to the side he jacked otherwise the jack seat would have been in the middle.. Or on the other side.

Edit: Dang I type slow on this sucker.


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## 056 kid

Trx250r180 said:


> that's kind of what i thought ,ones iv'e seen done are in middle of back cut not side ,were you trying to steer it another direction ?



More of a space issue. I wanted room for wedges too, always..


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## treeslayer2003

hemlock in Virginia? or you move n I missed it?


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## 056 kid

This is West NC. But yes, plenty of hemlock in va too.


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## bitzer

Hemlock up here to. Nice lookin stumps Ted! Busch was always my favorite fishing beer. A thirty pack used to make it pretty well for three guys and a light-weight in the boat. Back before I had the young uns anyway.

Been cutting big maple all week. These five trees were all average for the job.







The smaller logs downhill were the smallest on the job.





The back cut is not low. Just how the wood broke off. Face and back cuts were nearly level. 





Gettin my mojo back. It crossed my mind before, but I thought naw that couldn't be it. I was runnin old chain on a new bar. As soon as I ran new chain this week all my stumps got back to pretty again. I made some real uglies for a while, thinking it was all in my head. This was a WOT back cut by the way.





I was told on Monday this stand would be gone. Wednesday comes around and I had cut up to it. #### it I thought. I let it pull more fibers to keep it slow. It had a big goofy limb that was going to make it roll over otherwise.





Also had three days of a new operator in my machine. He made me money everyday so far. Not a lot, but better than going the other way. My ####### clutch went out yesterday (not his fault pretty sure). I think its been going for a while. I've never done one so Monday may be interesting. Any pointers would be great. Its got a Cummins 4bt in it. I gotta get the info on the tranny. 

View attachment 304340

View attachment 304341

View attachment 304342

View attachment 304343

View attachment 304344


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## dooby

Hey bitz- Nice wood-nice work. thats not a lot of beer? fishing musta been pretty hot.LOL. The fish n game out this way loves givin' D.U.I's on the water out here nowadays, so we fish harder or drink fasssster


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## tramp bushler

Some tall spruce. Pretty good looking work. 

west coast style - YouTube


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## tramp bushler

Bob ; that's some beautiful looking maple. . It is pretty amazing how a new bar and chain makes a guys cutting look so much nicer. And easier. :msp_thumbsup:
I really like how you ( made adjustments ) to the tree stand. :msp_smile:
Bummer about the clutch. .


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## 1270d

What ends up being done with shattered wood like that cedar in the vid? Do you buck it where it turns sound and leave the rest? Nice cutting and nice country. 

I'm probably going to be making a trip to Alaska this coming spring. Is there anyplace within a day s travel of anchorage where any logging goes on? I had an uncle who worked in hoonah and Kodiak isl but I guess that's quite a trip from anchorage. Sure be nice to see some steeper ground and bigger trees.


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## twochains

Bitzer, as usual super nice work! I notice in your pics that you cut alot of marked timber. I was just wondering who marks it...are you cutting gov jobs or has a LO hired a forester for select cutting? I'm sure tree marking difference is regional, we never see red anywhere around here. Forest service uses blue, their marks are generally a spot at the base and mostly a vertical line at head height, some use a series of angled lines when more than one guy is marking timber...sometimes squiggly marks and stick figures of people...guess they get bored. Core of Engineers use white, they are the only ones who use horizontal lines, usually a horizontal with an X above it. Just curious...Thanks!


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## treeslayer2003

bitzer said:


> Hemlock up here to. Nice lookin stumps Ted! Busch was always my favorite fishing beer. A thirty pack used to make it pretty well for three guys and a light-weight in the boat. Back before I had the young uns anyway.
> 
> Been cutting big maple all week. These five trees were all average for the job.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The smaller logs downhill were the smallest on the job.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The back cut is not low. Just how the wood broke off. Face and back cuts were nearly level.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gettin my mojo back. It crossed my mind before, but I thought naw that couldn't be it. I was runnin old chain on a new bar. As soon as I ran new chain this week all my stumps got back to pretty again. I made some real uglies for a while, thinking it was all in my head. This was a WOT back cut by the way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was told on Monday this stand would be gone. Wednesday comes around and I had cut up to it. #### it I thought. I let it pull more fibers to keep it slow. It had a big goofy limb that was going to make it roll over otherwise.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also had three days of a new operator in my machine. He made me money everyday so far. Not a lot, but better than going the other way. My ####### clutch went out yesterday (not his fault pretty sure). I think its been going for a while. I've never done one so Monday may be interesting. Any pointers would be great. Its got a Cummins 4bt in it. I gotta get the info on the tranny.
> 
> View attachment 304340
> 
> View attachment 304341
> 
> View attachment 304342
> 
> View attachment 304343
> 
> View attachment 304344



nice work as usual bitz. i'd love to cut hard maple, look like nice ones there. seems like a deer stand in the best tree in the woods every time.


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## treeslayer2003

bitz, yer franklin is manual? should not be to hard, jus wrenchin. resist using a light duty truck clutch.


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## HuskStihl

Pretty sure I've never had enough saw mojo to worry about losing it. Beautiful stumps, especially at fast production pace


----------



## tramp bushler

1270d said:


> What ends up being done with shattered wood like that cedar in the vid? Do you buck it where it turns sound and leave the rest? Nice cutting and nice country.
> 
> I'm probably going to be making a trip to Alaska this coming spring. Is there anyplace within a day s travel of anchorage where any logging goes on? I had an uncle who worked in hoonah and Kodiak isl but I guess that's quite a trip from anchorage. Sure be nice to see some steeper ground and bigger trees.




From the look of it that cedar turned into a rag. If its gonna be in the way of the loggin then it gets a riggin buck put in it. 
Its pretty hard to see any real loggin from South central ( Anchorage) . Not that the camps are such huge distances away but they are camps. Remote. Ya gotta have a real good reason to go to one. Now on Prince of Wales. Down by Ketchikan you can drive all over the island. And see some good loggin.


----------



## dooby

tramp bushler said:


> From the look of it that cedar turned into a rag. If its gonna be in the way of the loggin then it gets a riggin buck put in it.
> Its pretty hard to see any real loggin from South central ( Anchorage) . Not that the camps are such huge distances away but they are camps. Remote. Ya gotta have a real good reason to go to one. Now on Prince of Wales. Down by Ketchikan you can drive all over the island. And see some good loggin.



Howdy Tramp- You ever cut near Craig? Music cutting maybe? Really like your posts, photos and vids.


----------



## bitzer

Thanks all! 

Clint- I cut for a mill and their forester buys and marks the timber. I've only cut one job that was not marked and my guess is he was too lazy to cruise it. It was a swamp that was thicker than ####. Just cut the merch he said. He uses a lot of red and sometimes blue. 


TS- Yep its a standard trans. I've got a call into a couple of different mechanics for pointers. I should be able to handle it, but I am not in the mood for that greasy #### now that its finally quit raining!

Jon- I've got a top ten of my prettiest stump pics of all time, but I'm reluctant to post em. I just gotta be in the right mood. Hehe. Maybe narrow it down to five full hinge pics.

Doob- Lets just say I was usually the pace setter on those thirty packs. If you wanted yer moneys worth you had to keep up with me. Ah the good ole days of wild and free!


----------



## 036Pro

Here is some great falling action... With some Heli action, too! Hes pretty good! This is for dooby who likes Heli!uttahere2: Enjoy! Thanks! 
falling - YouTube


----------



## BERN-TIMBER

Bitz do you have a trans number? Im guessing your Franklin is not much different than a timberjack, they ran a lot of similar parts. On my jack we used a chain hoist hung on the roof to lift the tranny out of the way, small but heavy as all get out. Then the clutch isnt too bad. You will want to get your flywheel turned, and if you can find one get a new clutch and pressure plate. Some of the ones you buy are actually remans, and those are not as good as new. For the time spent putting them in its worth the extra 100 bucks to know you've got all new parts.


----------



## dooby

036Pro said:


> Here is some great falling action... With some Heli action, too! Hes pretty good! This is for dooby who likes Heli!uttahere2: Enjoy! Thanks!
> falling - YouTube



036Pro-Thanks Man ! This guy ain't to shabby.Awesome tunes, too. Trampbushler likes him, too. ( I put it on my fav. bar)


----------



## tramp bushler

dooby said:


> Howdy Tramp- You ever cut near Craig? Music cutting maybe? Really like your posts, photos and vids.




Yes I've cut out of Craig. But I 
haven't cut for Dale Music. I heard he was a great guy to cut for. But I was always working for someone else when he was lookin for cutters. 
Thanks. :big_smile:


----------



## dooby

Tramp- I was supposed to go up and cut for Dale about 10-12 yrs. ago. Rolled my truck on the way to the ferry in eastern Wash. and when I healed up he wasn't lookin' no more.


----------



## tramp bushler

dooby said:


> Tramp- I was supposed to go up and cut for Dale about 10-12 yrs. ago. Rolled my truck on the way to the ferry in eastern Wash. and when I healed up he wasn't lookin' no more.



Man, that's too bad. 
Just getting to a camp can be a pretty tough show sometimes.


----------



## RVALUE

dooby said:


> You seriously don't use that punky pine for smokin', do ya?:bang: OOps !! re-read this, hope it's the Oak yer smokin'


We used cedar up in Idaho for making jerky.. Was dang good. 

Dunno why but it passed with flying colors.


(not just because of Rainiers......_)


----------



## dooby

tramp bushler said:


> Man, that's too bad.
> Just getting to a camp can be a pretty tough show sometimes.



You ain't a kiddin'. If I get the chance lets say -Next spring- I am Outta here. Unless my yarder dreams come together. I caan close up here and keep what i got were it's @ for $450.00 a month. So as long as i got a school for my little guy i can go were i want. Always have. He loves it. I have gotten alot of flak for travelin' w/ him but he is very well rounded for 13


----------



## tramp bushler

We have lots of schools up here. Low student to teacher ratio. . I'm pretty big on private schools but they aren't always available.


----------



## dooby

tramp bushler said:


> We have lots of schools up here. Low student to teacher ratio. . I'm pretty big on private schools but they aren't always available.



Tramp-I hear ya- 2/3 of his education was private. hope the rest will be also. I can sure notice the diff. between public and private. My 1st cousin is up there somewhere flying from village to village with a nurse and he is the teacher ! Do any of the camps have schools still ? I bet a ferry rid is $$$$ now a days


----------



## Joe46

dooby said:


> Tramp-I hear ya- 2/3 of his education was private. hope the rest will be also. I can sure notice the diff. between public and private. My 1st cousin is up there somewhere flying from village to village with a nurse and he is the teacher ! Do any of the camps have schools still ? I bet a ferry rid is $$$$ now a days



Checked on putting my Crewcab Superduty on the Alaskan State ferry out of Bellingham,Wa. It was over $1,000 each way.
That was to Ketchikan.


----------



## northmanlogging

I think the ferry is under $400. if you walk on and sleep on the deck... of course getting from the ferry terminal to the bunk house is a different story.

I've never flown commercially with a chainsaw in my checked baggage I kinda wonder just how much of a pain it is...


----------



## dooby

I will be in that dually I posted on the "crummy thread" with a slide in camper and a 16' cargo trailer full of saw gear, oil, traps , guns ,and fishin' stuff (If and when I go). So it'll be close to $1,750 or there abouts. I remember it being about the amount of space you took up. Gonna put my efforts into my yarder dream first. And i will need a few more saws and parts-


----------



## tramp bushler

OK Boys, let me give you an Alaska 101 lesson for free. . I may well loose friends over this but that the way it goes. 
Rule #1 . If your gonna come up here. DON'T COMPLAIN ABOUT THE COST. . . Its OK to swallow hard, get weak in the knees an havevta sit down for a bit. . Most stuff doesn't cost anymore than it does in L.A. or NYC. And its a garrenteed way to piss off any Alaskan you r talking to. If you want to be up here it costs ALOT. that's a fact. Get over it. 
#2 DONT COMPLAIN ABOUT THE RAIN OR COLD . 
Ya coulda gone to Arizona or Alabama. But u came to Alaska wtf, ya think we r gonna warm it up just for you. 
#3 . Basically just don't complain. Your an adult. No one shanghaied you on a tramp steamer or tied you to the wing of Alaska Airlines. 
Man up. That's what we did and haven't do all the time.


----------



## tramp bushler

OK Boys, let me give you an Alaska 101 lesson for free. . I may well loose friends over this but that the way it goes. 
Rule #1 . If your gonna come up here. DON'T COMPLAIN ABOUT THE COST. . . Its OK to swallow hard, get weak in the knees an havevta sit down for a bit. . Most stuff doesn't cost anymore than it does in L.A. or NYC. And its a garrenteed way to piss off any Alaskan you r talking to. If you want to be up here it costs ALOT. that's a fact. Get over it. 
#2 DONT COMPLAIN ABOUT THE RAIN OR COLD . 
Ya could gone to Arizona or Alabama. But u came to Alaska wtf, ya think we r gonna warm it up just for you. 
#3 . Basically just don't complain. Your an adult. No one shanghaied you on a tramp steamer or tied you to the wing of Alaska Airlines. 
Man up. That's what we did and have ta do all the time. 

Do a lot of factual research ahead of time. . 
The fact of the matter is, the far north is a hard, expensive unforgiving place. . Its also the greatest place on earth if your sposed to be here.


----------



## tramp bushler

Oh and sometimes we have real s#!++√ cell service.


----------



## dooby

Never thought i was complainin' Tramp. Just simply asked about a fee in an inquiring manner. Idgara how much it costs. spent a couple hrs. today researchin' and studying alot of stuff, and AK. was , I bet half of it. If you took me wanting to hold till spring as complaining'- i think that's more of being prepared for knowing a little about what lies ahead. If it was from someone elses post and i didn't ketch it, i learned a little so thanks anyway.


----------



## tramp bushler

Ya, sorry Dooby ; it was someone else's. And from in the past. . 

Myself, it was Alaska or die trying t get home. ( here) . I grew up in Maine as a displaced Alaska citizen. If you have a camper then Prince of Wales is pretty good because you can live where you park. Plus almost ALL camps are looking for loggers. A chasin or tendin hook ect. job can tide a guy over till he can get on cutting. And if you can mechanic, your gold.


----------



## dooby

tramp bushler said:


> Ya, sorry Dooby ; it was someone else's. And from in the past. .
> 
> Myself, it was Alaska or die trying t get home. ( here) . I grew up in Maine as a displaced Alaska citizen. If you have a camper then Prince of Wales is pretty good because you can live where you park. Plus almost ALL camps are looking for loggers. A chasin or tendin hook ect. job can tide a guy over till he can get on cutting. And if you can mechanic, your gold.



Tramp- I can fallow on the wrenchin' but I am no Mech. . I can ririg well enough. Ain't never been in a tree past 80-90' either, Not that i wouldn't. Just no need so far. I cut heli logs in the taller timber. Riggin' only for yarders on the inland. Found a link-belt 98 today W/ an exta one for parts. They got a date w/ a scrap yard in one month. Am gonna be workin' out the finances the rest of the week so if I am not around that is why plus my leg is toughening up enough to cruise some units for contract cuttin'. and I got wrapped up in some drama so I need to cool off. But back to loggin'--- :chainsawguy:


----------



## northmanlogging

tramp bushler said:


> OK Boys, let me give you an Alaska 101 lesson for free. . I may well loose friends over this but that the way it goes.
> Rule #1 . If your gonna come up here. DON'T COMPLAIN ABOUT THE COST. . . Its OK to swallow hard, get weak in the knees an havevta sit down for a bit. . Most stuff doesn't cost anymore than it does in L.A. or NYC. And its a garrenteed way to piss off any Alaskan you r talking to. If you want to be up here it costs ALOT. that's a fact. Get over it.
> #2 DONT COMPLAIN ABOUT THE RAIN OR COLD .
> Ya coulda gone to Arizona or Alabama. But u came to Alaska wtf, ya think we r gonna warm it up just for you.
> #3 . Basically just don't complain. Your an adult. No one shanghaied you on a tramp steamer or *tied you to the wing of Alaska Airlines.*
> Man up. That's what we did and haven't do all the time.



Would that be a reduced fair flight? :msp_w00t: Its a pretty short flight, as long as they promised to stay under 10,000' I think I could live through it... Airline food makes me queasy, and maybe I could skip the security lines... (having bits of metal stuck in ya make TSA get all paranoid and crotchety, not real fond of being patted down and having metal detectors stuck in strange places...)

I like rain and cold...

everything is expensive everywhere...


----------



## madhatte

northmanlogging said:


> maybe I could skip the security lines... (having bits of metal stuck in ya make TSA get all paranoid and crotchety, not real fond of being patted down and having metal detectors stuck in strange places...)



FWIW, I got a Carlton File-O-Plate through airport security twice this year (I carry it in my wallet), and I've had a plate in my wrist for two years now, and have yet to get any grief from it. Methinks TSA is FINALLY outgrowing their full-blown paranoia from a few years back.


----------



## roberte

madhatte said:


> FWIW, I got a Carlton File-O-Plate through airport security twice this year (I carry it in my wallet), and I've had a plate in my wrist for two years now, and have yet to get any grief from it. Methinks TSA is FINALLY outgrowing their full-blown paranoia from a few years back.



first time I flew after getting my arm screwed back on, I carried a copy of the xray in my pocket, tsa didn't say d:censored:

now if you want to have fun fly with guns out of sfo or a major hub. once you get to a hunting location, say Missoula, they get it.


----------



## northmanlogging

couple of years ago I flew to Ireland and back, got delayed in Shannon spent the night in boston, so they bumped us up to first class, which is awesome... anyway, I get searched in Seatac, and New York on the way there, both me and my carry on... then I get full pat down and the bomb sniffing wand in Boston on the way back. and Dallas Ft worth... Salt Lake left me alone... get home dump out my carry on and what do I find....

Half a box of live .22 LR... that bag also serves as my range bag while target shooting...


They keep telling me that screws and whatnot don't set of the detectors... but its not a screw its a 3/8" thick rod the length of my shin bone... and a few screws...


----------



## madhatte

northmanlogging said:


> Half a box of live .22 LR...



Ha! What the hell do we pay them for, anyway?


----------



## roberte

madhatte said:


> Ha! What the hell do we pay them for, anyway?



to me, that's the funny part, you can fly with the ammo, it only has to be in your check bag and the factory box. they freaked out over the spent shell casing, loose, in my check bag. but the factory box is cool..... 

at least that's what I was told


----------



## madhatte

Bureaucracy. Blech.


----------



## northmanlogging

these where loose and just sort of rolling around in the bottom...

Had jury duty once and they found a live 9mm in my jacket pocket, half the guards panicked the other half where just like whatever we have to keep this or lock it up...or whatever... The funny thing is that pistol was stolen 5 years prior to the jury duty, I got it back 2 weeks later? (they moved the evidence room and "found it") there is a nice long story behind that one...:msp_angry:


----------



## northmanlogging

to get back on topic I used to fall alders with that pistol...:msp_w00t:


----------



## RVALUE

How long does the ferry take from WA to AK?


----------



## northmanlogging

If'n I remember right its 3 days to Skagway.


----------



## Bandit Man

Tipped over several nice Reds today. Hotter en a billygoats axx in a pepper patch! 
View attachment 304818

View attachment 304819


----------



## HuskStihl

Bandit Man said:


> Tipped over several nice Reds today. Hotter en a billygoats axx in a pepper patch!
> View attachment 304818
> 
> View attachment 304819



Nice looking timber and falling!


----------



## Bandit Man

HuskStihl said:


> Nice looking timber and falling!



Thanks HuskStihl !

Sunshine, diesel fumes, sawdust, and sweat!

You couldn't stick me in an office cubicle for millions


----------



## RVALUE

That ferry opens up a whole new method to visit Alaska.


----------



## treeslayer2003

Bandit Man said:


> Tipped over several nice Reds today. Hotter en a billygoats axx in a pepper patch!
> View attachment 304818
> 
> View attachment 304819



very nice


----------



## northmanlogging

RVALUE said:


> That ferry opens up a whole new method to visit Alaska.



Its faster than driving and slower then flying but from what I hear its one Hel of a view all the way up there, the bonus is most of the people sleeping on the sunbridge (deck thingy) are pretty fun and its sort of a party/festival atmosphere. 

I think the route they tank goes in between a whole slew of islands on the Canadia side and makes several stops at some touristy type towns on the way up.

They have food available on board, but you would be money ahead to pack your own, its a little spendy... and its not like your eating at a 5 star restaurant, more like a cruddy school cafeteria...

They also have cabins available, at extra cost of coarse...


----------



## dooby

northmanlogging said:


> Its faster than driving and slower then flying but from what I hear its one Hel of a view all the way up there, the bonus is most of the people sleeping on the sunbridge (deck thingy) are pretty fun and its sort of a party/festival atmosphere.
> 
> I think the route they tank goes in between a whole slew of islands on the Canadia side and makes several stops at some touristy type towns on the way up.
> 
> They have food available on board, but you would be money ahead to pack your own, its a little spendy... and its not like your eating at a 5 star restaurant, more like a cruddy school cafeteria...
> 
> They also have cabins available, at extra cost of coarse...



And if you are currently not allowed in Canada and need to take more gear than flying will allow it's the best alternative. When Canada finds out you like to scrap and have a dueee(which I do not condone any longer) It's float or fly to Ak.


----------



## roberte

dooby said:


> And if you are currently not allowed in Canada and need to take more gear than flying will allow it's the best alternative. When Canada finds out you like to scrap and have a dueee(which I do not condone any longer) It's float or fly to Ak.



yea I saw a live showing of that with a friend at the Edmonton airport, he had the dueee. 
I had to talk the same guy out of bringing a handgun to canadidada
"im bringing a handgun"
"didn't you read this paper, it says you cant etc"
"well I want to" etc...

omg and I thought I was stupid


----------



## dooby

roberte said:


> yea I saw a live showing of that with a friend at the Edmonton airport, he had the dueee.
> I had to talk the same guy out of bringing a handgun to canadidada
> "im bringing a handgun"
> "didn't you read this paper, it says you cant etc"
> "well I want to" etc...
> 
> omg and I thought I was stupid



He is your friend- Just saying:hmm3grin2orange: And yes that is not even Light-Brite smart.:msp_scared:


----------



## dooby

In Canada you have to have a serious back ground check to own a pistol. And get a permit to haul it to a gun range(were it is to be used). most of my buddies in B.C. rent storage from the ranges and leave them there instead of the constant trans. issues. I heard that outfiters/guides can get permitted to pack'em in the brush but don't no for sure, on that one.


----------



## northmanlogging

to bring this thread back on subject... heres the fir that broke all my chokers and and winch line last week... its not real big right around 36" really nice and tall, no knots until half way thought the second log, a guy can get used to that kind of limbing...


----------



## RVALUE

OK, I've been through 4 pages of search, and can't find it.


What's a 'dueee' ?


----------



## Gologit

RVALUE said:


> OK, I've been through 4 pages of search, and can't find it.
> 
> 
> What's a 'dueee' ?



DUI...driving under the influence.


----------



## RVALUE

dooby said:


> And if you are currently not allowed in Canada and need to take more gear than flying will allow it's the best alternative. When Canada finds out you like to scrap and have a dueee(which I do not condone any longer) It's float or fly to Ak.



Thanks for the clarification on the dui.


Now what is the tranlation of the above post?


----------



## northmanlogging

Somebody got caught doing something they shouldn't have, and now the border guards won't let them in, Most likely Drinking Driving and Fighting... probably in that order... the real fun part is getting back in to the US...


----------



## RVALUE

northmanlogging said:


> Somebody got caught doing something they shouldn't have, and now the border guards won't let them in, Most likely Drinking Driving and Fighting... probably in that order... the real fun part is getting back in to the US...



Do you mean 'anytime in their life' or recently, and / or in Canada?


----------



## northmanlogging

They run your DMV and criminal record at the border, if its on there they see it, thats why they demand your I.D. and Passport. 

Most crimes cycle off after 7? years, felonies don't go away without special help (the legal kind... gees... you can hire a lawyer to remove somethings from your record after x years of being a good boy), I'm not clear on the domestic violence/assault charges. Seems like those are treated like felonies anymore.

It doesn't matter where it happens, here Canada, Brussels, the gubamint's keep track of everyone and they all talk to eachother...

Although if you screw up big in Canada they will escort you to the border... if they don't just throw you in jail...


----------



## Gologit

RVALUE said:


> Thanks for the clarification on the dui.
> 
> 
> Now what is the tranlation of the above post?



Nope...I'm just answering _easy_ questions today. :msp_biggrin:


----------



## RVALUE

Thanks for the clarifications. I've never tried to get into Canada. Turned around at the border once.....

(had a 10 mm)


----------



## dooby

northmanlogging said:


> Somebody got caught doing something they shouldn't have, and now the border guards won't let them in, Most likely Drinking Driving and Fighting... probably in that order... the real fun part is getting back in to the US...


Yup- and you shoulda seen the day this all went down. not to get off subject again - But they didn't even wear pistols on the Canadian side(pre-9-1-11). And the U.S. side was to busy laughin' at 'em tryin to unlock there mase. Almost got to go to Canada for awhile. Not a good way to get temp. residency. They should teach their guards how to wrestle.


----------



## Cedarkerf

The wife drove the ford Bronco up to Canada it had an NRA sticker on it she got a major grilling from the Canadiens but they let her in .


----------



## dooby

RVALUE said:


> Thanks for the clarifications. I've never tried to get into Canada. Turned around at the border once.....
> 
> (had a 10 mm)



uhh!.... this is an attempt- just sayin'.


----------



## dooby

Had to go cut alder out of a drive way do to pics' posted in" the not so pro" thread from earlier today. Pic's tomorrow- the previous wind speeds mentioned in those pic's should have said 85 mph gusts(5min. ones) at least that is what the sherrif and vol. firefighter said. never seen that here but once before maybe. Gets weirder every year----


----------



## Metals406

dooby said:


> Had to go cut alder out of a drive way do to pics' posted in" the not so pro" thread from earlier today. Pic's tomorrow- the previous wind speeds mentioned in those pic's should have said 85 mph gusts(5min. ones) at least that is what the sherrif and vol. firefighter said. never seen that here but once before maybe. Gets weirder every year----



I was taking pictures of that cell as it split and went South and North of here. I knew it was packing a punch. . . Shortly after it left here, it put a whoopin on some folks in the Park. 

2 adults and a kid got struck by lightning.


----------



## Cfaller

Do you think it will chair when they finally kill it?
View attachment 305046


----------



## hardpan

Cedarkerf said:


> The wife drove the ford Bronco up to Canada it had an NRA sticker on it she got a major grilling from the Canadiens but they let her in .



That bad? I always thought I'd like to see some of that country. I've been a life member for about 35 years now and proud of it. Kind of a "cold dead fingers" type of thing.


----------



## roberte

RVALUE said:


> Do you mean 'anytime in their life' or recently, and / or in Canada?



Anytime, if you have record it goes with you.


----------



## Bandit Man

Still laying down Reds. I stumped this shot high cause someone ran a barbed wire fence around it about 20 years ago. Even with the high stump, log was 52 feet to the first limb. Goin thru so many shirts, I might pack a suitcase full in the skidder 
View attachment 305068


----------



## treeslayer2003

Bandit Man said:


> Still laying down Reds. I stumped this shot high cause someone ran a barbed wire fence around it about 20 years ago. Even with the high stump, log was 52 feet to the first limb. Goin thru so many shirts, I might pack a suitcase full in the skidder
> View attachment 305068



you got some nice timber there bandit. hows ya markets? jus curios, they seem to be wildly different all over.


----------



## Samlock

Sorry I have not checked in for awhile. Now I have a bit embarrassing clip to make it up. I intended to make a footage of wedging over back leaning small diameter timber, but it turned out to be a demonstration of slobbiness. The wedge popped off the cut just as the alder was going over. I didn't even notice it at first. Don't try this at home!

(Also I wanted to show off my brand new shiny ms 261 baby saw.)

[video=youtube;xU9mS4CFixI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU9mS4CFixI[/video]


----------



## Bandit Man

treeslayer2003 said:


> you got some nice timber there bandit. hows ya markets? jus curios, they seem to be wildly different all over.



Thanks Slayer. 
It's sure not what it used to be! [email protected] pbf-Doyle. 
Pallet&[email protected] currently.


----------



## dooby

Samlock said:


> Sorry I have not checked in for awhile. Now I have a bit embarrassing clip to make it up. I intended to make a footage of wedging over back leaning small diameter timber, but it turned out to be a demonstration of slobbiness. The wedge popped off the cut just as the alder was going over. I didn't even notice it at first. Don't try this at home!
> 
> (Also I wanted to show off my brand new shiny ms 261 baby saw.)
> 
> [video=youtube;xU9mS4CFixI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU9mS4CFixI[/video]



I still can't get over all the safety stuff you euro loggers wear-Is it required or do you do that on purpose.? ??? Just askin'----


----------



## Metals406

dooby said:


> I still can't get over all the safety stuff you euro loggers wear-Is it required or do you do that on purpose.? ??? Just askin'----



Darb, a lot of that gear (most of it) is indeed the industry standard in the EU.

It's where we got GOL and short bar classes.

Sam's good folks though, even with his Euro gear.


----------



## dooby

Metals406 said:


> Darb, a lot of that gear (most of it) is indeed the industry standard in the EU.
> 
> It's where we got GOL and short bar classes.
> 
> Sam's good folks though, even with his Euro gear.



I bet Sam is a great guy- i just would never wear all that stuff or run a 16-20" bar for loggin'. Just saw a chance to ask if it were choice or required or both. Less is better, except for chaps or inserts, caulks and a hard hat.:msp_wink:


----------



## treeslayer2003

Bandit Man said:


> Thanks Slayer.
> It's sure not what it used to be! [email protected] pbf-Doyle.
> Pallet&[email protected] currently.



well, that's about exactly what what i'm getting. white oak 1 brings more, poplar a little less. now pine is way down from a few years back, how ever we just got a raise on 300ft n up so mebbe lookin up.


----------



## treeslayer2003

dooby said:


> I bet Sam is a great guy- i just would never wear all that stuff or run a 16-20" bar for loggin'. Just saw a chance to ask if it were choice or required or both. Less is better, except for chaps or inserts, caulks and a hard hat.:msp_wink:



we used to cut a lot of big timber with a 20. I just started using a 24 one day and the ol man said, why ya get that long bar? I told him I was tired of walkin round the tree. then I got a 28 and when I get my 660 reworked I prolly goin to a 36. i'll prolly still have to walk around a few :msp_wink: they were tought diff. in some places here and few big saws back in the day.


----------



## Gologit

Samlock said:


> Sorry I have not checked in for awhile. Now I have a bit embarrassing clip to make it up. I intended to make a footage of wedging over back leaning small diameter timber, but it turned out to be a demonstration of slobbiness. The wedge popped off the cut just as the alder was going over. I didn't even notice it at first. Don't try this at home!
> 
> (Also I wanted to show off my brand new shiny ms 261 baby saw.)



Hey Sam! Good to see you back here again. We were about to send a search party out looking for you. :msp_biggrin:


----------



## bustedup

dooby said:


> I bet Sam is a great guy- i just would never wear all that stuff or run a 16-20" bar for loggin'. Just saw a chance to ask if it were choice or required or both. Less is better, except for chaps or inserts, caulks and a hard hat.:msp_wink:



Dooby bro.......that kit is required over here and short bars are the norm ........It a different world logging in europe etc than the states........no ya know why I moan so much ........I won't wear that kit or jump thru the hoops .......but them the rules here


----------



## dooby

:bang::blob5: rules- how come everything that makes sense is Illegal in one form or another. i am so sick of ......... :deadhorse: never mind:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## paccity

Gologit said:


> Hey Sam! Good to see you back here again. We were about to send a search party out looking for you. :msp_biggrin:


was wondering the same thing. nice to see ya here again.


----------



## hammerlogging

dooby said:


> I still can't get over all the safety stuff you euro loggers wear-Is it required or do you do that on purpose.? ??? Just askin'----



Good to hear from you. Yeah, trees that size can sit back on you a mile too. whips they are.

To the doubters, that euro gear is not actually as bad as you suspect. Its designed for performance and safety. Its specialized for the job. most fallers have a list of other things that could improve their numbers more than whether or not they were fashionable-


----------



## bustedup

hammerlogging said:


> Good to hear from you. Yeah, trees that size can sit back on you a mile too. whips they are.
> 
> To the doubters, that euro gear is not actually as bad as you suspect. Its designed for performance and safety. Its specialized for the job. most fallers have a list of other things that could improve their numbers more than whether or not they were fashionable-



I'll beg to differ there lol.............It's restrictive .......uncomfortable and as far as performance lol.......if ya like walking round in a suit of armor then ok but don't try moving quick in it


----------



## bustedup

oh and it costs a fortune too


----------



## hammerlogging

bustedup said:


> I'll beg to differ there lol.............It's restrictive .......uncomfortable and as far as performance lol.......if ya like walking round in a suit of armor then ok but don't try moving quick in it



if you dont like it fine, but I don't think its worth mentioning. I wear more traditional garb myself, but have tried most of these things out, and quite frankly, find them to be good products

like I said most guys I can find a few performance issues to help improve their numbers and if they were wearing this type of outfit it wouldn't mak ethe list of things thatr would need improvement. its effective, safe, and not a big deal.

I wear denim with inserts, i've worn cutting pants, see no difference except for the convenience of the inserts being removable. someone gave me a jacket like that and its actually pretty sweet and just enough rain protection to be similar to the shower curtain shoulder poncho, except theirs offers saw protection. Its a good wearing jacket. we both wear helmets, we both wear tool belts. 

Not getting the problem here.

diet, sharper calks, more precise chain grinding, a cleaner air filter, better strip management, better sleep habits, these things get you numbers. safe gear and high vis properly fitted, losser if you prefer, but its all a non issue.

Sometimes we try so hard to be free we're not.


----------



## bustedup

hammerlogging said:


> if you dont like it fine, but I don't think its worth mentioning. I wear more traditional garb myself, but have tried most of these things out, and quite frankly, find them to be good products
> 
> like I said most guys I can find a few performance issues to help improve their numbers and if they were wearing this type of outfit it wouldn't mak ethe list of things thatr would need improvement. its effective, safe, and not a big deal.
> 
> I wear denim with inserts, i've worn cutting pants, see no difference except for the convenience of the inserts being removable. someone gave me a jacket like that and its actually pretty sweet and just enough rain protection to be similar to the shower curtain shoulder poncho, except theirs offers saw protection. Its a good wearing jacket. we both wear helmets, we both wear tool belts.
> 
> Not getting the problem here.
> 
> diet, sharper calks, more precise chain grinding, a cleaner air filter, better strip management, better sleep habits, these things get you numbers. safe gear and high vis properly fitted, losser if you prefer, but its all a non issue.
> 
> Sometimes we try so hard to be free we're not.



Eh ok


----------



## Rounder

Hi Joe and Sam, hope all's well

-The other Sam


----------



## slowp

For the Sams.

[video=youtube_share;ULDtgnQ0fy4]http://youtu.be/ULDtgnQ0fy4[/video]


----------



## Samlock

Thanks pards, it's good to be back!



dooby said:


> I still can't get over all the safety stuff you euro loggers wear-Is it required or do you do that on purpose.? ??? Just askin'----



Yes, it's mandatory. If they found my smelly carcass somewhere without wearing all this stuff, my family wouldn't have a penny.

Chainsaw boots and pants, goggles, helmet, ear muffs - other than that I think it's the jacket which looks really big and heavy. Actually it's part of the set I like most. The jacket is not required either, that I do on purpose. It has no chainsaw protection, but it's light and ventilated in a clever way. If I wear it without a shirt under, it's cooler than just your skin, believe or not. Plus it's really sturdy too, I've worn that particular jacket over four years now without putting a stitch on it.


----------



## madhatte

Samlock said:


> If I wear it without a shirt under, it's cooler than just your skin, believe or not.



OK, you have my curiosity. I've worn my vest without a shirt before, to my bug-bitten and scratched-to-hell disappointment. How's a big floppy asking-to-get-snagged jacket vent so well?


----------



## tramp bushler

Ya Sam, its great to see ya! I get nervous when I don't see one of the crew around. Guess its just the cutter in me. 

I think for a guy to be an all around tree killer he needs to be flexible enough to be comfortable doing most of the styles of professional tree killing. Most fallers would wrinkle their nose at precommercial tree thinning ( with a chainsaw) but my best money days with a powersaw have been tree thinning. Like around $2,300.00 for 5 1/2 hours on a 260 Stihl. With a 20" bar no less. And I may look funny to some with a cape on my hard hat. But I would as soon not wear corks as to thin without a cape onmy had hat.


----------



## tramp bushler

Honestly guys, since such a huge part of this ball we live on is covered with trees. It's pretty ignorant to think our small sector of falling experience is the end all of putting them on the ground. 
I get as much enjoyment out of sawing the top out of a shinny cottonwood 50' up and 4" dia. With my Samauri hand saw as I do scooping a 5 bushel spruce off the stump with my 390 Husky.


----------



## HuskStihl

treeslayer2003 said:


> you got some nice timber there bandit. hows ya markets? jus curios, they seem to be wildly different all over.



At least you look like you know what you are doing I would not have been brave or strong enough to get in there and push it when the wedge fell out and it started going backwards. I've heard RandyMac could push over OG like that

That 261 sounds and looks really strong. Thanks for posting this video. Seeing that things can go wrong even when pro's are cutting makes amateurs (annoying homeowners) like me a little more careful in the woods.


----------



## Deleted member 110241

hammerlogging said:


> Good to hear from you. Yeah, trees that size can sit back on you a mile too. whips they are.
> 
> To the doubters, that euro gear is not actually as bad as you suspect. Its designed for performance and safety. Its specialized for the job. most fallers have a list of other things that could improve their numbers more than whether or not they were fashionable-



20 years ago the safety pants were very thick and Heavy but now they are pretty thin and very comfortable. Cheap pants still are thick and heavy, that's what I have, I'm not a logger (I'm thinning young forests with a clearing saw, don't know what that's called in english) and thought that the good pants cost too much :msp_unsure:

New rules for this year is that we have to wear Hi-Vis jackets, not a fan of that since I'm used to wearing just a shirt but I guess I'll get used to it, eventually.


----------



## Trx250r180

slowp said:


> For the Sams.
> 
> [video=youtube_share;ULDtgnQ0fy4]http://youtu.be/ULDtgnQ0fy4[/video]



I like Sam's logger tape with the hand that runs out ,much better than the nail on mine :msp_wink:


----------



## tramp bushler

Markus said:


> 20 years ago the safety pants were very thick and Heavy but now they are pretty thin and very comfortable. Cheap pants still are thick and heavy, that's what I have, I'm not a logger (I'm thinning young forests with a clearing saw, don't know what that's called in english) and thought that the good pants cost too much :msp_unsure:
> 
> New rules for this year is that we have to wear Hi-Vis jackets, not a fan of that since I'm used to wearing just a shirt but I guess I'll get used to it, eventually.



Markus ; which clearing saw are you running. . I know this may be a stupid? . But I've always wondered. If it was illegal in Sweden to run a Stihl. And if it was illegal in Germany to run a Husqvarna . ??


----------



## Samlock

Markus, guess what. Right now I'm packing my clearing saw for next week, I've got a 20 hectares young pine plot to thin out. I'll try to remember pack a camera too and take some pictures, unless it's raining too much.



madhatte said:


> OK, you have my curiosity. I've worn my vest without a shirt before, to my bug-bitten and scratched-to-hell disappointment. How's a big floppy asking-to-get-snagged jacket vent so well?



Nate, laundry today. The floppy jacket is basically sewn round a fish net. The upper and lover parts are separate. Armpits can also be opened out. The fabric is really thin, it dries fast - as soon as the jacket gets wet, it'll feel cold. If it's burning hot, I just let the front open. The bugs usually won't bite your chest or belly as much as they like to chew your arms or backside.


----------



## tramp bushler

My only real problem with European safety clothing for cutter's is they are too tall and skinny. Aren't there any short, fat guys like me over there? . Maybe they don't have doughnuts over there. ????


----------



## Samlock

tramp bushler said:


> My only real problem with European safety clothing for cutter's is they are too tall and skinny. Aren't there any short, fat guys like me over there? . Maybe they don't have doughnuts over there. ????



We let them husky boys to collect the profits.


----------



## tramp bushler

For an upper garment that has been wore for 4 years while cutting. I'de say that I would sure like one. If it will stand up like that and still be in that good a shape, that's pretty impressive.


----------



## dooby

Markus said:


> 20 years ago the safety pants were very thick and Heavy but now they are pretty thin and very comfortable. Cheap pants still are thick and heavy, that's what I have, I'm not a logger (I'm thinning young forests with a clearing saw, don't know what that's called in english) and thought that the good pants cost too much :msp_unsure:
> 
> New rules for this year is that we have to wear Hi-Vis jackets, not a fan of that since I'm used to wearing just a shirt but I guess I'll get used to it, eventually.



my opinions came from a coupla 20 yr. old exp., back them Stihl saw pants were the thing every body had to have. All the younger(early 20's)cutters it seemed had to have all this new hot gear, me included. I remember hot,heavy(sweat mongers), and clumzy. I will check into the jacket- that is pretty good-4 yrs. and no issues. I am an insert guy myself, and own some chaps also. I can't comfortably cut(not even fire wood)without leg protection and a hard hat at least. One Logger I fall for on occasion won't allow inserts on his job. He likes to see that a person is protected, I guess.


----------



## tramp bushler

The pads don't always do their job. I know a few guys that got cut while wearing them because the chain pulled them out of the way so it could eat some leg meat. 
That being said I have been wearing Labonville summer cutting pants this year with the pads. They are cool in the summer but on the hottest days its either chaps or nothing. 
I will say I like the Labonville pants. Polyester. I can move in them about as good as I can move. Haven't washed them since I started wearing them.


----------



## Deleted member 110241

tramp bushler said:


> Markus ; which clearing saw are you running. . I know this may be a stupid? . But I've always wondered. If it was illegal in Sweden to run a Stihl. And if it was illegal in Germany to run a Husqvarna . ??



I run Husqvarna 345FXT and 555FXT.
I have a small business and have 4 saws running. Plenty of Stihl users around here but I like the huskys, they've been dead reliable so I don't feel the need for change.


----------



## Deleted member 110241

Samlock said:


> Markus, guess what. Right now I'm packing my clearing saw for next week, I've got a 20 hectares young pine plot to thin out. I'll try to remember pack a camera too and take some pictures, unless it's raining too much.
> 
> 
> 
> Nate, laundry today. The floppy jacket is basically sewn round a fish net. The upper and lover parts are separate. Armpits can also be opened out. The fabric is really thin, it dries fast - as soon as the jacket gets wet, it'll feel cold. If it's burning hot, I just let the front open. The bugs usually won't bite your chest or belly as much as they like to chew your arms or backside.



20ha takes a while if you're by yourself!

I took a picture a couple weeks back:


----------



## tramp bushler

Markus and Sam ; what spacing do you guys do. Or is it just save the dominates and cut the rest. ?


----------



## Deleted member 110241

We leave about 2000 trees/hectar which is a bit over 2 meters on average between individuals.

Here's a better picture:


----------



## dooby

Markus said:


> We leave about 2000 trees/hectar which is a bit over 2 meters on average between individuals.
> 
> Here's a better picture:



Markus-After falling to the prescribed spec's . is there a market for or utilization of the fallen trees?


----------



## mdavlee

Here you go guys. Have at me. 

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/av6CbLs94J0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


----------



## dooby

tramp bushler said:


> The pads don't always do their job. I know a few guys that got cut while wearing them because the chain pulled them out of the way so it could eat some leg meat.
> That being said I have been wearing Labonville summer cutting pants this year with the pads. They are cool in the summer but on the hottest days its either chaps or nothing.
> I will say I like the Labonville pants. Polyester. I can move in them about as good as I can move. Haven't washed them since I started wearing them.



Hey Tramp- Always wondered about the Labonville pants. Maybe I'll try a set this fall. Do you ever use a bow bar for thinning? A friend tried to get me to use them more than once, I still can't get used to a 'bow-bar.


----------



## Deleted member 110241

dooby said:


> Markus-After falling to the prescribed spec's . is there a market for or utilization of the fallen trees?



No, we leave them there. They break down quickly and gives nutrition to the trees left.


----------



## dooby

mdavlee said:


> Here you go guys. Have at me.
> 
> <iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/av6CbLs94J0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



One tree andyou expect an opinn....Hey that saw was throwing some nice chips.:chainsawguy:and um ugh...way to clean up the face.:msp_wink: But one tree... come on:bringit:

No, really it all looked really good! To be honest I got alot of dutchman in my stuff threw the course of the day. Sometimes that's just the rythym, like when i go to a longer heavier bar. It takes my muscle/hand-eye to adjust a bit longer these days.


----------



## mdavlee

Well I forgot to video the other big poplar


----------



## dooby

:msp_w00t:


----------



## HuskStihl

mdavlee said:


> Here you go guys. Have at me.
> 
> <iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/av6CbLs94J0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



I'd like for somebody, anybody, to post a video making falling look harder than I make it look. This ain't the one. That stump looks great, all the fiber pull was from the stump, and unlike some your back cut was not on a 30 degree slopp. I will say bigger boys make it look smoother and faster, and the smaller boys (me) make it look much harder.

I vote "good on ya mate!"


----------



## Trx250r180

i guess the white bar makes your saw think it's orange and white :msp_wink:


----------



## HuskStihl

mdavlee said:


> Well I forgot to video the other big poplar



That implies you think this one was big:jester: don't listen to that doobie, I've seen three of your falling vids and you look like a faller in all of 'em, but it might be the tin lid:msp_biggrin:


----------



## dooby

Trx250r180 said:


> i guess the white bar makes your saw think it's orange and white :msp_wink:



opcorn:


----------



## dooby

HuskStihl said:


> That implies you think this one was big:jester: don't listen to that doobie, I've seen three of your falling vids and you look like a faller in all of 'em, but it might be the tin lid:msp_biggrin:



Now Husk- all i was implying was that there was only one tree to judge from :msp_wink:


----------



## HuskStihl

Was that a Dutchman or were you cleaning up the face? I'm thinking no, unless there was something more important than that fence on the other side that we couldn't see.


----------



## Trx250r180

HuskStihl said:


> Was that a Dutchman or were you cleaning up the face? I'm thinking no, unless there was something more important than that fence on the other side that we couldn't see.



Looked like cleaning the face up


----------



## mdavlee

Trx250r180 said:


> Looked like cleaning the face up



Mostly cleaning the face up. I missed the far corner just a little. I stayed on the stump longer chasing the hinge to limit fiber pull.


----------



## dooby

HuskStihl said:


> That implies you think this one was big:jester: don't listen to that doobie, I've seen three of your falling vids and you look like a faller in all of 'em, but it might be the tin lid:msp_biggrin:



This is a little harsh:beat_brick:


----------



## Trx250r180

Mike made a good looking stump ,lot nicer than most i see in clear cuts around here ,and tree went where he wanted ,mission accomplished


----------



## treeslayer2003

hello Brian. Mike ya cut that jus fine, I stay at the stump to severe holding wood a lot. but it for the value of the butt log. that log is fine to go as it is.


----------



## HuskStihl

dooby said:


> This is a little harsh:beat_brick:



Dooby, I apologize. No harshness was intended towards either you or mike. Just remember, if I'm talking, there's a decent chance I'm kidding around. Looked like pro work to me, as have his other vids.


----------



## mdavlee

HuskStihl said:


> Was that a Dutchman or were you cleaning up the face? I'm thinking no, unless there was something more important than that fence on the other side that we couldn't see.



Well the power lines were about 6' to the right of that tree also. The house was 30' to the left. All 4 hit within 2' of where I wanted. 

I wish I had the video of the other poplar. It was taller and made a good thud when it hit. It was 57' to the fork in it. 

Thanks for the kind words. I guess that's not too bad for a welder and firewood hack


----------



## dooby

mdavlee said:


> Well the power lines were about 6' to the right of that tree also. The house was 30' to the left. All 4 hit within 2' of where I wanted.
> 
> I wish I had the video of the other poplar. It was taller and made a good thud when it hit. It was 57' to the fork in it.
> 
> Thanks for the kind words. I guess that's not too bad for a welder and firewood hack



OKEEDOKEE!!! Here is your beer!


----------



## Trx250r180

mdavlee said:


> Well the power lines were about 6' to the right of that tree also. The house was 30' to the left. All 4 hit within 2' of where I wanted.
> 
> I wish I had the video of the other poplar. It was taller and made a good thud when it hit. It was 57' to the fork in it.
> 
> Thanks for the kind words. I guess that's not too bad for a welder and firewood hack



you got's big kahunas ,didn't know was close to a house ,to be safe i may have left a 2 inch hinge and pushed it over with a wedge ,not being there i'm not to say ,must have been enough lean you were confident they were going where they went ,its amazing how strait a tree will stay aimed with a good hinge,i do stuff like this though ,so who am i to say :msp_biggrin:View attachment 305242


----------



## dooby

dooby said:


> This is a little harsh:beat_brick:



You are forgiven< Proceed:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## dooby

Trx250r180 said:


> you got's big kahunas ,didn't know was to a house ,to be safe i may have left a 2 inch hinge and pushed it over with a wedge ,not being there i'm not to say ,must have been enough lean you were confident they were going where they went ,its amazing how strait a tree will stay aimed with a good hinge,i do stuff like this though ,so who am i to say :msp_biggrin:View attachment 305242



and no one is ever around and you just new you didn't need that extra bar or saw:hmm3grin2orange: Only 'cause yer not alone


----------



## treeslayer2003

Trx250r180 said:


> you got's big kahunas ,didn't know was close to a house ,to be safe i may have left a 2 inch hinge and pushed it over with a wedge ,not being there i'm not to say ,must have been enough lean you were confident they were going where they went ,its amazing how strait a tree will stay aimed with a good hinge,i do stuff like this though ,so who am i to say :msp_biggrin:View attachment 305242



wedges would have prevented this. jus sayin.


----------



## HuskStihl

Just to lighten the mood I found a pre-AS stump in the woods and took a picture. In the background you can also see some of my prize concrete work

View attachment 305243


----------



## Trx250r180

treeslayer2003 said:


> wedges would have prevented this. jus sayin.



they were on the bobcat ,little gust of wind blew it back ,i went up to the shop grabbed another bar ,nipped the back and finished with the wedges ,that bar and chain lived ,i still use it ,when i felt it pushing back tried to power out ,i got as far as you see it and pinch


----------



## mdavlee

HuskStihl said:


> Just to lighten the mood I found a pre-AS stump in the woods and took a picture. In the background you can also see some of my prize concrete work
> 
> View attachment 305243



I've got 2 of those in the lot behind us. The neighbors cut 2 dead poplars with the slopping back cut while they had them hooked to a truck. I was at work and the wife watched to see if they were going to kill themselves.


----------



## HuskStihl

mdavlee said:


> Well the power lines were about 6' to the right of that tree also. The house was 30' to the left. All 4 hit within 2' of where I wanted.
> 
> I wish I had the video of the other poplar. It was taller and made a good thud when it hit. It was 57' to the fork in it.
> 
> Thanks for the kind words. I guess that's not too bad for a welder and firewood hack



Even better considering the pressure. Power lines and houses are off limits for me. I get nervous about fences


----------



## mdavlee

HuskStihl said:


> Even better considering the pressure. Power lines and houses are off limits for me. I get nervous about fences



I'll try to out and get a picture from the front looking towards the house. They were all well within reach of the house.


----------



## treeslayer2003

HuskStihl said:


> Just to lighten the mood I found a pre-AS stump in the woods and took a picture. In the background you can also see some of my prize concrete work
> 
> View attachment 305243



well, ya know better now. I like the triple stack culvert. yer idea?


----------



## HuskStihl

Trx250r180 said:


> they were on the bobcat ,little gust of wind blew it back ,i went up to the shop grabbed another bar ,nipped the back and finished with the wedges ,that bar and chain lived ,i still use it ,when i felt it pushing back tried to power out ,i got as far as you see it and pinch



I only fall with solid bars now


----------



## HuskStihl

treeslayer2003 said:


> well, ya know better now. I like the triple stack culvert. yer idea?



Ya, bridge is 5 yrs old and has had no problems, even had a bogie skidder across it a few times. The triple culvert pyramid just fit the shape of the creek really well and was the easiest way to raise the level of the bridge. My cousin works commercial concrete just down the road in Houston, and loves to bust my chops when he sees that ugly ass bridge, but he was noticeably absent when I was moving 1.3 yds of concrete by hand in the woods! Rebar is kinda like a wedge. It can yelp you out of an ugly situation when used properly:msp_biggrin:


----------



## mdavlee

Here's pictures of where the trees were. I'm standing on my walkway looking at the one and the other is from the corner of the house.


----------



## treeslayer2003

mdavlee said:


> Here's pictures of where the trees were. I'm standing on my walkway looking at the one and the other is from the corner of the house.



now the real work begins. I see you have a qualified helper.


----------



## mdavlee

That's one of the bosses there. The other one is smaller and more demanding.


----------



## northmanlogging

*pumpkin carving*

Hemlock 38" at the wide part, lightning struck so the top was dead still got 2 nice logs out of it, that would be the new used 066.


----------



## treeslayer2003

northmanlogging said:


> Hemlock 38" at the wide part, lightning struck so the top was dead still got 2 nice logs out of it, that would be the new used 066.



good work there friend. ya in some nice timber now then?


----------



## northmanlogging

tomorrow should be the last day on this bit of dirt... and what do ya know the neighbor decided to show up... got another 2-3 loads (not counting the 2-3 from today and yesterday) before the missus needs to find somewhere else to play... when ya say it like that... thats a whole bunch of wood for a part time gyppo!:msp_w00t:


----------



## treeslayer2003

that the way it works. do a good job n pay as agreed, the neibors come to you. I finished my pretty wood yesterday. gonna go kill pine for a while, I got some biguns for this fall.


----------



## northmanlogging

It seems like I just keep stumbling along and landing in more and more work... not complaining, would dearly love to go full time, but for now that safety net of a day job sure is nice when things go T.U.

This is the neighbor with them big ugly Doug Firs, could be this time next week I'll need to get a proper video camera, and get really stew bid...:tongue2:


----------



## HuskStihl

northmanlogging said:


> Hemlock 38" at the wide part, lightning struck so the top was dead still got 2 nice logs out of it, that would be the new used 066.



Humboldt with a Dutch pulling it right?


----------



## northmanlogging

HuskStihl said:


> Humboldt with a Dutch pulling it right?



nope just poor aim on lining up my slope cut... first side was a little high second was a little low, ended up with sort of modified block face.


----------



## HuskStihl

northmanlogging said:


> nope just poor aim on lining up my slope cut... first side was a little high second was a little low, ended up with sort of modified block face.



I, 100% of the time, wind up with some sort of "modified" face. Yours looks better


----------



## Bandit Man

I'm just doing my part for "sustainable" forestry on my land. Don't worry, I gave em a big hug first! 
View attachment 305279

View attachment 305280


----------



## bustedup

Bandit Man said:


> I'm just doing my part for "sustainable" forestry on my land. Don't worry, I gave em a big hug first!
> View attachment 305279
> 
> View attachment 305280



Only time I hug em is if my spurs kick out.....or the flip line gets cut............which yes I have done lol:redface:


----------



## hammerlogging

Bandit Man said:


> I'm just doing my part for "sustainable" forestry on my land. Don't worry, I gave em a big hug first!
> View attachment 305279
> 
> View attachment 305280



by frame 2 I'd suggest a step or two in the out of frame direction. frame one looks good though, cutting with confidence.


----------



## madhatte

*Not "my" project, but something I am involved in*

We're calibrating the growth model in our inventory software to match how trees actually grow on our property. What's that look like? Glad you asked:









If that looks vaguely familiar, it's because it's what tree models ALWAYS look like: 






So, I managed to screw one up pretty good. Tree was a DF about 18" DBH in an overstocked stand. Had limb weight in one direction, and a bit of belly in another. I read it wrong, believing that the limb weight would over-rule the belly. This is where I thought it would go (D. in the corner there is the guy working on the calubration full-time):





This is where I ended up putting it, 120 or so degrees away: 





And, here's the rest of the story: 





See that dark band on the stump and the log? That's a stain from my bar from when the tree sat back on me and spat out the wedge I was palming in. The 260 in the pic is a Red Herring; D. was using it elsewhere and brought it with him when I called him over to give me a hand. See also how I cut out the hinge from the face? I did that after removing the powerhead from the stuck bar in an attempt to weaken it enough to go over in the direction of the belly. That didn't work either. See how there's more pulling wood on the right, and less on the left? That's because I severed the far (off) side from the face to get it over. The pulling wood is what drew it to the right and away from the road. 

After much consideration, I think what I should have done is to put a siswheel in on the right side and hoped it would hold on long enough to swing back around where I wanted it. The top moved about 5 feet when it sat back, though, so I was afraid it had lost all momentum which is why I didn't try that. Lesson learned: belly can overrule limb weight if it's heavy enough, even if it's down low and doesn't look like it can account for much leverage. 







Sam, that's pretty neat. I am a believer in synthetics already because they dry so fast. Not a fan of long sleeves, though... BUUUUT... less bug bites? Hrmm. This bears consideration.


----------



## Cfaller

I think limb weight has gotten all of us once or twice.:msp_biggrin:


----------



## Bandit Man

hammerlogging said:


> by frame 2 I'd suggest a step or two in the out of frame direction. frame one looks good though, cutting with confidence.



By frame two, sometimes I'm already 50 feet away! LOL! In this case I had a solid canopy with no contact during decent, and hard to tell from the picture angle, but this red oak disappeared from view as it fell down the holller, landing ever so softly by the branch. Four logs taken, and about five rick off the top.


----------



## roberte

HuskStihl said:


> I'd like for somebody, anybody, to post a video making falling look harder than I make it look. This ain't the one. That stump looks great, all the fiber pull was from the stump, and unlike some your back cut was not on a 30 degree slopp. I will say bigger boys make it look smoother and faster, and the smaller boys (me) make it look much harder.
> 
> I vote "good on ya mate!"



i thought the stump was a little high :msp_scared::censored::jester:


----------



## roberte

HuskStihl said:


> That implies you think this one was big:jester: don't listen to that doobie, I've seen three of your falling vids and you look like a faller in all of 'em, but it might be the tin lid:msp_biggrin:



were are these vids? links?


----------



## roberte

Trx250r180 said:


> Mike made a good looking stump ,lot nicer than most i see in clear cuts around here ,and tree went where he wanted ,mission accomplished



yeah, i drove thru a couple clear cuts the other day, i was thinking, ok this is acceptable huhh. and yes i was thinking and it did no good


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## roberte

HuskStihl said:


> Just to lighten the mood I found a pre-AS stump in the woods and took a picture. In the background you can also see some of my prize concrete work
> 
> View attachment 305243



and the judges give an 8.6 score on the sloping backcut :msp_w00t:


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## roberte

HuskStihl said:


> I only fall with solid bars now



I'll let you in on a secret, I only use solid bars too


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## roberte

Cfaller said:


> I think limb weight has gotten all of us once or twice.:msp_biggrin:



and the belly or the sweep on occasion too


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## HuskStihl

roberte said:


> were are these vids? links?



Heres one of 'em

[video=youtube;PfAjdSmOo5A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfAjdSmOo5A&list=UUyphpSr9YxmRcLFLuGwNQBg&feature=player_embedded[/video]


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## JakeG

Good ole hang ups..


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## dooby

HuskStihl said:


> Heres one of 'em
> 
> [video=youtube;PfAjdSmOo5A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfAjdSmOo5A&list=UUyphpSr9YxmRcLFLuGwNQBg&feature=player_embedded[/video]



HuskStihl-Do you buck out merchantable timber when you can or make firewood? That tree looked like it should have date w/ a band mill


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## husqvarnaguy

JakeG said:


> Good ole hang ups..



The best way I have found to fix that is to climb up to the top and jump up and down.:msp_biggrin:


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## roberte

husqvarnaguy said:


> The best way I have found to fix that is to climb up to the top and jump up and down.:msp_biggrin:



ahhh yes, the expressway down :doctor:

someone better get a choker from randymacopcorn:


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## Trx250r180

JakeG said:


> Good ole hang ups..



is this blowdown ? or falling hangup ?


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## roberte

JakeG said:


> Good ole hang ups..



hey jake, did you do that or did you come accross that?


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## HuskStihl

dooby said:


> HuskStihl-Do you buck out merchantable timber when you can or make firewood? That tree looked like it should have date w/ a band mill



Did you really think that was me?:embarrassed3:


That manly hunk o' faller is mike! I fall big dead stuff mostly


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## mdavlee

Most of the stuff I've cut lately is going to a log buyer. That was poplar that will go for peelers. I have 5 16'9" poplars and then 8 more logs for pulp. The poplar and sycamore isn't good firewood when we have so much oak and other hardwoods.


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## roberte

northmanlogging said:


> Hemlock 38" at the wide part, lightning struck so the top was dead still got 2 nice logs out of it, that would be the new used 066.



so thats what happened to ZZ Top... from music to logging:glasses-cool:


----------



## JakeG

husqvarnaguy said:


> The best way I have found to fix that is to climb up to the top and jump up and down.:msp_biggrin:





roberte said:


> ahhh yes, the expressway down :doctor:
> 
> someone better get a choker from randymacopcorn:



This thread is about falling pics.. I can't figure out how to climb it, ride her into the ground like a bronc, take a picture and then somehow post it here. Guess that's a downside to cutting alone... No one to take pics for ya


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## roberte

JakeG said:


> This thread is about falling pics.. I can't figure out how to climb it, ride her into the ground like a bronc, take a picture and then somehow post it here. Guess that's a downside to cutting alone... No one to take pics for ya



depends if you want witnesses or not....


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## treeslayer2003

jake, ya gonna have to pull it down with something and that happens to every one some time. 
rob, good to see ya, i'm sure like me ya thought there was pics from dooby some where.


----------



## roberte

treeslayer2003 said:


> jake, ya gonna have to pull it down with something and that happens to every one some time.
> rob, good to see ya, i'm sure like me ya thought there was pics from dooby some where.



yeah thats what i thought, but i was thinking again... oww:msp_unsure:


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## treeslayer2003

yea, it will hurt if ya do much of it.


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## JakeG

Trx250r180 said:


> is this blowdown ? or falling hangup ?





roberte said:


> hey jake, did you do that or did you come accross that?



Admittedly, I did it. I felt it was an appropriate since we were on the topic of misjudging trees. Plus ya gotta share your screw ups and not just the picture perfect stumps or lays.

Today was the first day cutting with the 7hp cinder block of a saw... boy she does not stop cutting when you let off, talk about power. The pine was 32" dbh with forward lean in the belly and heavy back and to the right lean in the top. 

Anyway, I went around to the left side of the stump to finish my back cut and hung in it WAY too long. I nipped the HW in the center as well as taking too much off the corner. It looked like I bored in and left 4" of HW on either side. It went right a little and rode the oak tree's fork all the way to the crotch. :msp_wink:


----------



## JakeG

treeslayer2003 said:


> jake, ya gonna have to pull it down with something and that happens to every one some time.
> rob, good to see ya, i'm sure like me ya thought there was pics from dooby some where.



Yup I'll pull her down Wednesday. The landowner doesn't want equipment out there till then.


----------



## roberte

JakeG said:


> Admittedly, I did it. I felt it was an appropriate since we were on the topic of misjudging trees. Plus ya gotta share your screw ups and not just the picture perfect stumps or lays.
> 
> Today was the first day cutting with the 7hp cinder block of a saw... boy she does not stop cutting when you let off, talk about power. The pine was 32" dbh with forward lean in the belly and heavy back and to the right lean in the top.
> 
> Anyway, I went around to the left side of the stump to finish my back cut and hung in it WAY too long. I nipped the HW in the center as well as taking too much off the corner. It looked like I bored in and left 4" of HW on either side. It went right a little and rode the oak tree's fork all the way to the crotch. :msp_wink:



i can relate, last fall, missed my shot, hung a 30" butt x 100' into another one about the same size, ended up dropping it too but cutting on the opposite side. :sigarette:


----------



## Metals406

mdavlee said:


> Most of the stuff I've cut lately is going to a log buyer. That was poplar that will go for peelers. I have 5 16'9" poplars and then 8 more logs for pulp. The poplar and sycamore isn't good firewood when we have so much oak and other hardwoods.



9" is a weird trim length for a 16' log.


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## Trx250r180

Metals406 said:


> 9" is a weird trim length for a 16' log.



they do that around here too ,length plus 9 inches ,must be for cleanup at the mill


----------



## mdavlee

Yep and the 8' logs only need 4". If they're paying more for short logs I can get 2 that way.


----------



## 1270d

8 inches of trim on 8 foot logs here six inches on everything longer.

What lengths are normal for the pnw? Are they bucked shorter at the mill or processes as delivered?


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## treeslayer2003

on this side, rule of thumb 6" trim any length but... that is with clean butt. if the butt is ragged or what not they would want it trimmed clean or a lot more trim left on the small end. some times pallet mills or tie mills ask for weird lengths but they will get two odd length shorter logs out of it.


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## northmanlogging

1270d said:


> 8 inches of trim on 8 foot logs here six inches on everything longer.
> 
> What lengths are normal for the pnw? Are they bucked shorter at the mill or processes as delivered?



Not really a normal length... or trim, all depends on which mill its going to. But I'd hazard a guess that 32-40' is average with 10" to 1' trim, but the mills will generally take down to 16'10" mostly in multiples of 8-10'. Some of the export stuff has weird lengths like 33' or 26' I'm thinking its for metric markets. One mill will take down to 10' logs with 6" trim but only if they are over 10"? dia.

The local mills will either buck em shorter or cut em long, depending on the demand and timber quality, they have a machine that bucks em up before they are sawn into boards...

From what I gather the mills are largely automated now, just an operator here and there to keep an eye on things, except green chain... that will probably always be grunt work.


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## DavdH

*Minimum* 6" per segment. 9" is ok, 5" and it gets cut back 2' of length. Anything 16'6" to 18'6" is a 16' segment. Some hardwood mills have a max 16' scale segment which means anything longer is divided into 2 segments and needs 6" more trim, 20' must have a minimum of 12' trim because it is 2 10' logs. Westside scale is 40' segments and have different trim rules. Govt. timber has different rules than private timber. Most mills have very specific trim requirements depending on the end product, peeler mills get super picky because the value is so high per bf unit.


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## treeslayer2003

DavdH said:


> *Minimum* 6" per segment. 9" is ok, 5" and it gets cut back 2' of length. Anything 16'6" to 18'6" is a 16' segment. Some hardwood mills have a max 16' scale segment which means anything longer is divided into 2 segments and needs 6" more trim, 20' must have a minimum of 12' trim because it is 2 10' logs. Westside scale is 40' segments and have different trim rules. Govt. timber has different rules than private timber. Most mills have very specific trim requirements depending on the end product, peeler mills get super picky because the value is so high per bf unit.



david, is there veneer softwood markets over there?


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## DavdH

northmanlogging said:


> Not really a normal length... or trim, all depends on which mill its going to. But I'd hazard a guess that 32-40' is average with 10" to 1' trim, but the mills will generally take down to 16'10" mostly in multiples of 8-10'. Some of the export stuff has weird lengths like 33' or 26' I'm thinking its for metric markets. One mill will take down to 10' logs with 6" trim but only if they are over 10"? dia.
> 
> The local mills will either buck em shorter or cut em long, depending on the demand and timber quality, they have a machine that bucks em up before they are sawn into boards...
> 
> From what I gather the mills are largely automated now, just an operator here and there to keep an eye on things, except green chain... that will probably always be grunt work.




You got it right on the button, our west coast export is metric about 13' multiples, we don't have a single boarder puller on our green chain it is totally automated past the trimmer. Stacked,sticker-ed and banded by machine and hauled off by a fork lift.


----------



## 1270d

northmanlogging said:


> The local mills will either buck em shorter or cut em long, depending on the demand and timber quality, they have a machine that bucks em up before they are sawn into boards...
> 
> From what I gather the mills are largely automated now, just an operator here and there to keep an eye on things, except green chain... that will probably always be grunt work.



Got to tour one of LP's OSB mills this spring. They said the whole mill can be run by 4 guys...until something breaks. 16 workers is the regular shift with most of those on maintenance


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## DavdH

Veneer for appearance grades is another whole bucket of worms. The answer is yes there is , but... it has to be better than perfect. We have a small log mill sort up to 24" on the large end, for export sort (about 20 sorts China being the lowest) saw logs, for big mills 17" to 24" small end for resale by grade 12" up best sorts are 30"+ in all species. oh and most of the mills here cut just white wood of redwood not both, so sorts by all above by species. White wood includes ponderosa pine, sugar pine, Jeffery pine, white fir, grand fir, Shasta-red fir, hemlock, Douglas fir, spruce etc. all of which grow in this county.


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## treeslayer2003

we used to have a yellow pine veneer market, I was told it was gone because of law about exporting it. could be bs. it had to be perfect and only the butt log witch made it hard to sell the rest of it. but it did pay good.


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## Metals406

We use 6" trim here, but I know they'll do 10"-12" in AK. Boom logs are 66' I believe?

33's are common here, which is a 32' with 1' trim (or two 16'-6" logs together).

My comment was pointing out that 9" was rather oddball, when it's close to 10" or another even number.

It very well could be metric for sure. . . As far as bucks -- if they aren't clean -- the mills here will low grade your load and pay you less money.

Clean bucks and butts are just a good habit to get in. :smile2:


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## northmanlogging

Metals406 said:


> We use 6" trim here, but I know they'll do 10"-12" in AK. Boom logs are 66' I believe?
> 
> 33's are common here, which is a 32' with 1' trim (or two 16'-6" logs together).
> 
> My comment was pointing out that 9" was rather oddball, when it's close to 10" or another even number.
> 
> It very well could be metric for sure. . . As far as bucks -- if they aren't clean -- the mills here will low grade your load and pay you less money.
> 
> Clean bucks and butts are just a good habit to get in. :smile2:



a bit of translation... when I say 32' that does not include trim... so the 33' are cut at 34' all very confusing... only the one broker that wants the odd lengths, everyone else wants factors of 8 or 10 feet, plus trim... of course that broker is the exporter and the exporter is paying more than anyone else...


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## DavdH

You are correct on all points, 16' 9" would make 2 8' pieces of lumber common in hard wood not in softwood, except for peelers. on the Veneer, slicing Veneer is higher quality than peeling veneer and another specialty market. We try to make 20' and longer lumber and timbers because the value is so much more per mbf, we used to be able to cut 48' timbers but now we are maxed at 36' + trim. The logs to do all this are getting rarer and rarer. I know Starfire can still cut long timbers. We got a bunch (barge load) of logs from British Columbia for some long big timbers a few years ago, don't do fir timbers any longer. All timbers we make now are for architects and special projects, we don't stock a single timber but we cut them to order. We used to have a standing order for 24X24 X24' timbers.


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## roberte

1270d said:


> 8 inches of trim on 8 foot logs here six inches on everything longer.
> 
> What lengths are normal for the pnw? Are they bucked shorter at the mill or processes as delivered?



last job i cut on and went to tacoma, i was told to buck to in order

26'10"
32'10"
36'10"
10" tops on all 

the rest went to pulp or chip


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## hammerlogging

Metals406 said:


> We use 6" trim here, but I know they'll do 10"-12" in AK. Boom logs are 66' I believe?
> 
> 33's are common here, which is a 32' with 1' trim (or two 16'-6" logs together).
> 
> My comment was pointing out that 9" was rather oddball, when it's close to 10" or another even number.
> 
> It very well could be metric for sure. . . As far as bucks -- if they aren't clean -- the mills here will low grade your load and pay you less money.
> 
> Clean bucks and butts are just a good habit to get in. :smile2:



the 17'9 is peelers- 2 8'sheets of plywood. 2 8 footers with min. 8" of trim for each. often they end up as 18'. but 17'6" is the min.

33 is 2 16 footers with 6" trim each. 34'6" is a sawlog butt log and a 18 foot peeler, another common buck for me.

as for deductions by the scaler, ya, same here. so if there is a mistake in the woods, CYA and carry on, always turning in quality


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## treeslayer2003

10" top pretty standard here now on every thing but chip.


----------



## dooby

Some of the mills are geared up for the 9' stud market. The mill I currently sale to has a three inch trim per 9'. And 27'9" is their favorite length. They will take tops down to 6" and have taken down to 5.25" w/o deductions. The best saw logs go to a small Mom n Pop band mill(they pay real gooooooooda!)and the rest go to a privately owned local mill in ColumbiaFalls, Mt..


----------



## paccity




----------



## madhatte

1270d said:


> What lengths are normal for the pnw? Are they bucked shorter at the mill or processes as delivered?



The trim allowances for softwoods are well-covered up there. I have here the card for one of our local hardwood mills. Here are the lengths used hereabouts for alder and maple.

min top dia 6" alder, 7" maple
max butt dia 30"
chip 'n' saw 5" min (absolute
pulp 3" min, must be suitable for conveyor travel

*
Log -- Trim -- Preference*

16' -- 16'8" -- acceptable
18' -- 18'8" -- preferred
20' -- 20'8" -- preferred
22' -- n/a -- no 22' allowed
24' -- 25'0" -- least preferred
26' -- 27'0" -- acceptable
28' -- 29'0" -- preferred
30' -- 31'0" -- preferred
32' -- 33'4" -- least preferred
34' -- 35'4" -- acceptable
36' -- 37'4" -- acceptable
38' -- 39'4" -- preferred
40' -- 41'4" -- preferred


----------



## Metals406

dooby said:


> Some of the mills are geared up for the 9' stud market. The mill I currently sale to has a three inch trim per 9'. And 27'9" is their favorite length. They will take tops down to 6" and have taken down to 5.25" w/o deductions. The best saw logs go to a small Mom n Pop band mill(they pay real gooooooooda!)and the rest go to a privately owned local mill in ColumbiaFalls, Mt..



PM me the mom and pop info if they pay good, unless it's super secret? I can pass it on the Ron so he could maybe sell to them as well?

I assume the other mill you're talking about it Stoltze or RBM?


----------



## 1270d

Are there published specs for allowable sweep in a log? Is it based on the sections the longer lengths will eventually be bucked into or on the whole log?

For example our veneer logs can have maybe a half inch of sweep, while saw bolts can be up to eight inches since they are bucked in half at the mill


----------



## madhatte

1270d said:


> Are there published specs for allowable sweep in a log? Is it based on the sections the longer lengths will eventually be bucked into or on the whole log?



You sort of just answered your own question. Logs are always scaled from the small end; you can make better utilization of a defective log by bucking it into shorter lengths. Longer pieces are worth more. The guy bucking makes some of these decisions, the scaler some, and the guy running the headrig makes the final call.


----------



## paccity

starts at the faller, if it's not layed out as gently as poss everything else is out the window. :msp_wink:


----------



## Bandit Man

Another steamy day in the holler, but wouldn't trade this life for anything. 
Well..... Maybe to be the sailboat Captain for Hugh Heffner 
View attachment 305668

Oh, I took this pic for my daughter, and tossed the Stihl Forestry hat so she could see me.


----------



## northmanlogging

there really is an art to bucking for grade, you east coast guy have it down to a mad science what with all the peeler logs and what not, plus hard wood generally doesn't grow real straight.

Here its watch for cat butt, big knots and too much taper, any obvious defect, other then that they all pretty much turn into grade lumber or TP...


----------



## jrcat

For the markets I deal with on veneer we are allowed no percentage of sweep. On saw logs .....as long as they can get it on the carriage without much hassle it will go for what ever it grades out as ex: grade 1, 2 or 3 .... Most logs with a sweep will bring at least a 2. I have sold some that went for 1's ... Depends on the scale man too.


----------



## Bandit Man

Really enjoying falling the tall reds, but can't wait to take vacation. 
View attachment 305836


----------



## slowp

It was too close to tell, so I opted for more work and a safer outcome. The little alder was getting too big. 

This was what I did not want to break.
View attachment 306017

So I topped it first using my "bargain" wiggly wobbledy muscle powered pole saw. I'll finish it on a day when I feel like wearing long pants. The bottom is in a blackberry vine patch. Windows are in one piece. Objective met.

View attachment 306018


I used a slopping back cut.


----------



## floyd

Get a power pole saw. I have murdered everything around my house...and wherever else I want to prune. I can get up 16' off the ground.


----------



## slowp

floyd said:


> Get a power pole saw. I have murdered everything around my house...and wherever else I want to prune. I can get up 16' off the ground.



No thanks. I've cut with both. The muscle powered is lighter and low maintenance.


----------



## madhatte

Finally had cause to try Cody's alternate siswheel method (the one where you slide the cut off the face rather than pulling out a wedge behind it) and found it to be easier and more effective. Turns out the question isn't so much how far _can_ you pull it but rather how far do you _need_ to pull it. 





As you can see, I overshot by just enough to inconvenience myself.


----------



## treeslayer2003

I like to see more on this, pics. hard to see jus what ya did.


----------



## floyd

Getting the power pruner in the air can be a challenge. I'm just not tough enough to saw by hand in that position.


----------



## madhatte

treeslayer2003 said:


> I like to see more on this, pics. hard to see jus what ya did.



There's plenty of pics in this thread, if you want to dig around some. I'm mostly going by memory from watching him do it at the Montana GTG last year.


----------



## HuskStihl

slowp said:


> It was too close to tell, so I opted for more work and a safer outcome. The little alder was getting too big.
> 
> This was what I did not want to break.
> View attachment 306017
> 
> So I topped it first using my "bargain" wiggly wobbledy muscle powered pole saw. I'll finish it on a day when I feel like wearing long pants. The bottom is in a blackberry vine patch. Windows are in one piece. Objective met.
> 
> View attachment 306018
> 
> 
> I used a slopping back cut.



Strong work! I've never seen a "T" type coos bay executed with a muscle powered pole saw before:biggrin:


----------



## Rounder

Pretty nice Friday strip, 3-4+ long log timber.

Hope you all had a good, safe week - Sam


View attachment 306085

View attachment 306086

View attachment 306087

View attachment 306088

View attachment 306089


----------



## mdavlee

Nice timber Sam. :beer:


----------



## 056 kid

madhatte said:


> Finally had cause to try Cody's alternate siswheel method (the one where you slide the cut off the face rather than pulling out a wedge behind it) and found it to be easier and more effective. Turns out the question isn't so much how far _can_ you pull it but rather how far do you _need_ to pull it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see, I overshot by just enough to inconvenience myself.



I like the block style, but with faces so close to the ground the v type is easier. If its a high stump il use the block.


----------



## hammerlogging

056 kid said:


> I like the block style, but with faces so close to the ground the v type is easier. If its a high stump il use the block.



i'll bet i used 20 siswheels today, cutting a chestnutty oakish high knob there at B.C.

I also left a russian coupling on a monster red oak sidehilled at the bottom of the cable's reach, just to tap it 30 minutes later with another chestnut oak, just enough to release it and hear it steam roll far enough to probably be out of reach. bye bye 800 or so bf.

pretty good day though


----------



## madhatte

056 kid said:


> I like the block style, but with faces so close to the ground the v type is easier. If its a high stump il use the block.



Good point. My saw was getting in its own way here some. I will remember that next time.


----------



## northmanlogging

hammerlogging said:


> i'll bet i used 20 siswheels today, cutting a chestnutty oakish high knob there at B.C.
> 
> *I also left a russian coupling on a monster red oak sidehilled at the bottom of the cable's reach, just to tap it 30 minutes later with another chestnut oak, just enough to release it and hear it steam roll far enough to probably be out of reach. bye bye 800 or so bf.*
> 
> pretty good day though



That there is why I keep a 100' or so of cable laying around, makes one Hel of a tag out choker... not worth it on little stuff, but if its high dollar I don't mind taking a little extra time to drag line out to it. Also comes in handy for throwing a few snatch blocks in the works for really big SOB's that are stuck in a hole...


----------



## Metals406

treeslayer2003 said:


> I like to see more on this, pics. hard to see jus what ya did.



Here's some video of Cody showing the technique at the GTG last spring.

<iframe width="480" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/QqIl7-ac0xw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


----------



## bitzer

Nice looking work Sam! Looks like fun wood to be in!

Joe- I'm sure that coupling was in a pretty hairy place too. Anytime I've ever left one its in a bad spot and judging how much wood is have left can be tough. Fortunately I've got the ground where I don't have too often.


----------



## HuskStihl

What u been up to Bitz? Get u'r new saw yet?


----------



## treeslayer2003

hey Bitz, get yer franklin clutch in?


----------



## tramp bushler

I know this may sound lame. But I finally got my saw in the mail on its way to MDavLee. Its only about 5 weeks since I said I'de send it. 

I already said Lame. 
Now that I've discovered how light the LW bars are. It will mostly live with 36" bars on it. They balance it better than the 32" all steel bars.


----------



## tramp bushler

Oh ya, it's a 460 Stihl. 
The road spinner.


----------



## madhatte

Metals406 said:


> Here's some video of Cody showing the technique at the GTG last spring.
> 
> <iframe width="480" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/QqIl7-ac0xw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



That's the one. He shows it pretty well in a few of his fireline videos as well. It's the same principle as the "classic" sis, only easier to do. I think maybe the "classic" (I'm gonna call it that from now on, I think) might be a better choice if it's critical that a tree hit a very specific spot, since it has that wood in front of the stretched hinge to say "stop here". Meanwhile, I think I'll just keep learning what I can, when I can.


----------



## northmanlogging

Ok here goes Hemlock falling - YouTube 

This video was taken a day after I got out of the hospital, so I was about a pint low on the red stuff, hence I wasn't thinking real clear or moving as well as normal... still got it down though and mostly where I wanted it.

Now that I got the pooter thing figured out I can maybe take some better vids.


----------



## jrcat

northmanlogging said:


> Ok here goes Hemlock falling - YouTube
> 
> This video was taken a day after I got out of the hospital, so I was about a pint low on the red stuff, hence I wasn't thinking real clear or moving as well as normal... still got it down though and mostly where I wanted it.
> 
> Now that I got the pooter thing figured out I can maybe take some better vids.



Nice work NM..


----------



## bitzer

I'm actually down a saw and yep got the machine back together. Ended up needing a new flywheel and some other crap. About two grand in parts and nearly two weeks down. I had wrong parts sent to me and lots of bull#### customer service from the parts people at Cummins. When I wasn't playin grease monkey I cut a good chunk of the next job. Got to skidding on it today. 

Block face sizwheel with the far side cut off. This pic was from a couple of months ago. 








This was what I packed in for a short day of cutting at the end of a job. Typically I'd have 1.5 to 2 gallons of mix and another gallon of water depending on how hot it is. The metal bottles go on my wedge belt. Extra chains in the pack. T.P. Spark plug. Couple of tools. Extra wedges. Starter cord. Electrical tape. Extra ear plugs. Extra gloves. Lunch. Snack. The winter pack gets heavier. That pack along with the short bar means I almost never have to pack out to the truck while cutting. Its tough to make money when you are walking around looking for things. 





View attachment 306728

View attachment 306729


----------



## HuskStihl

northmanlogging said:


> Ok here goes Hemlock falling - YouTube
> 
> This video was taken a day after I got out of the hospital, so I was about a pint low on the red stuff, hence I wasn't thinking real clear or moving as well as normal... still got it down though and mostly where I wanted it.
> 
> Now that I got the pooter thing figured out I can maybe take some better vids.



I had actually seen this video before on one of those "mysteries of Bigfoot" tv shows. 
That one would have been perfect for the new 42". I liked how you kept the backcut moving left handed while placing wedges right handed. I also enjoyed how you raised the degree of difficulty by building that obstacle course at the stump Just don't forget your friends on the "kids" thread now that you've hit the big time:biggrin:


----------



## northmanlogging

That little set was the clencher for getting a bigger saw... the one in the background with the orange? tape on it is the one with the pic of the 066 on its first day out...


----------



## tramp bushler

Looks good Northman! Looked like it was pretty tall


----------



## treeslayer2003

bitzer said:


> I'm actually down a saw and yep got the machine back together. Ended up needing a new flywheel and some other crap. About two grand in parts and nearly two weeks down. I had wrong parts sent to me and lots of bull#### customer service from the parts people at Cummins. When I wasn't playin grease monkey I cut a good chunk of the next job. Got to skidding on it today.
> 
> Block face sizwheel with the far side cut off. This pic was from a couple of months ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was what I packed in for a short day of cutting at the end of a job. Typically I'd have 1.5 to 2 gallons of mix and another gallon of water depending on how hot it is. The metal bottles go on my wedge belt. Extra chains in the pack. T.P. Spark plug. Couple of tools. Extra wedges. Starter cord. Electrical tape. Extra ear plugs. Extra gloves. Lunch. Snack. The winter pack gets heavier. That pack along with the short bar means I almost never have to pack out to the truck while cutting. Its tough to make money when you are walking around looking for things.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 306728
> 
> View attachment 306729



don't ya just love how a simple thing turns into a major ordeal. nice pic of the sis by the way.


----------



## madhatte

bitzer said:


> the short bar means I almost never have to pack out to the truck while cutting.



That's freaking brilliant. I already carry my chains in a kevlar bag on a carabiner; now all I need is a cheap, light laminated 16" bar to complete the kit. Thanks for the idea!


----------



## northmanlogging

I've been thinking on the whole packing gas, oil and water. I seem to stop mostly for water so I'm thinking on getting a little canteen type thing... just haven't found the right option.

Having stuff hang off of bits of rope would totally #### up my already flailing balance though...

Maybe a camel back? Especially if I could modify it to hook on my wedge belt and act as spenders?

Just some things I think about rather then watching my bar tip or about the fact that limbing and bucking really sucks on steep ground... (trying to figure out a way to show the angle of the dangle of the last few days...)


----------



## madhatte

I like the CamelBaks. I have two set up the same; 100 oz bladder, first aid kit, pad on one shoulder, earplugs and hose on the other. A key ring down low on the right to hang my spencer tape from. It fits under my vest or over my linegear. Pretty much always have one with me.


----------



## JakeG

Ante up.. I know ya'll took pictures this week.. 

I worked a few hours today and about have this 10 acre plot wrapped up. These pics I took today (nothin' fancy) represent 80-90% of what the land has to offer, slash and/or loblolly pines. I'm not sure which I like better.. pine trees trying to tag ur hard hat or rotten/hollow/stinky oaks. Give me some live trees! :hmm3grin2orange:

Par for the course:













This is the most level I've cut since getting the 394xp.. 





Despite the 105* feels like temp, it was a good day for an amateur.

Anyway, I'm tired of lookin' at trashy wood, where's Your pics/video? What are you workin' on?


----------



## treeslayer2003

Jake, you are cutting some dangerous stuff there. I don't like cutting stuff like that and it all yer doin. looks like a good job, you be careful cutting that stuff and cut those vines loose before ya start.


----------



## roberte

JakeG said:


> Ante up.. I know ya'll took pictures this week..
> 
> I worked a few hours today and about have this 10 acre plot wrapped up. These pics I took today (nothin' fancy) represent 80-90% of what the land has to offer, slash and/or loblolly pines. I'm not sure which I like better.. pine trees trying to tag ur hard hat or rotten/hollow/stinky oaks. Give me some live trees! :hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> Par for the course:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the most level I've cut since getting the 394xp..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Despite the 105* feels like temp, it was a good day for an amateur.
> 
> Anyway, I'm tired of lookin' at trashy wood, where's Your pics/video? What are you workin' on?



looks good 
on the other side, those pines like that never bothered me. yes watch your backside, but you can only cut whats in front of you


----------



## JakeG

Yes siree.. Dangerous indeed. I'm doing my best to not get too comfortable with em.

My favorite is the 5' wide by 3' tall mounds of brushat the base of every friggin tree. Consistently no solid footing...


----------



## madhatte

This growth model project I mentioned is giving me lots of opportunities to practice unusual cuts. Working for the 'ologists is not always a bad thing. Here's a block-out face I used to make sure I had the mechanics down. ~20" DF so; otherwise pretty routine cutting. (I only show the unusual cuts and the mistakes because they're the interesting parts)


----------



## Bandit Man

Three red oak drive here. Really slammed the deck today. Super nice weather! Sunshine, sweat, and sawdust 
View attachment 307205


----------



## tramp bushler

OK Jake here's some.


----------



## tramp bushler

This is my arborist look.


----------



## tramp bushler

Uh oh. 




Gotta fix that


----------



## tramp bushler

Ahh, that's better.


----------



## tramp bushler

Falling pics


----------



## tramp bushler




----------



## floyd

Good thing you fixed that...made you look fat.(Add smiley here)


----------



## madhatte

tramp bushler said:


> Falling pics



That thing is OOOOOOGLY


----------



## Spotted Owl

tramp bushler said:


> Falling pics



Who's the kid there with ya? It couldn't possibly be your seed, look see he knows how to smile:msp_biggrin:.

Good on ya with the climbing. I like climbing but I don't like all that rigging and swinging to other sticks. I just waste time and energy coming down and restarting at the bottom of the new one. But then I don't use a tree saddle either. 

Looks like good work and good weather to be doing it in too.



Owl


----------



## treeslayer2003

apprentice??


----------



## HuskStihl

Haywire said:


> Aww, c'mon. Tramp's not _that_ bad lookin'!



Ya, he pretty much is, but he's beautiful with a 390 in his hands


----------



## tramp bushler

That's one of the ground guys. He's a lot more photogenic than me .


----------



## HuskStihl

[video=youtube;lVP5HeMAv-4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=lVP5HeMAv-4[/video]

This thread was getting dangerously close to the bottom of the forestry and logging page


----------



## Metals406

When I'm out getting camp wood, I'll make a falling video to bump this suck'a.

:msp_thumbup:


----------



## Cfaller

Bump. No undercut Coos bay. The picture is taken from where the back-cut will be made.

Sent from my C811 4G using Tapatalk 2


----------



## 056 kid

I wish I could take pictures with my eyes. Today I was wedging over a dead hemlock when a freaking peregrine falcon flew up and landed on the top. I said, "hey bird, get outta here!" The bird looked down at me, I yelled at it again with no success. So I gave the wedge a smack and off it went! I doubt that will ever happen again!


----------



## northmanlogging

taint much, enjoy[video=youtube;nbu9hcylyMc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbu9hcylyMc[/video]


----------



## treeslayer2003

hey mang i wanna see one of them fat ones go over. tease. :hmm3grin2orange:
good job northman :msp_thumbup: you a south paw? or both?


----------



## northmanlogging

a little of both, but not fully ambidextrous, right hand is gimpy so some things I cant do, so the left takes over, but then the left isn't real good at fine work, although it'll do in a pinch. Its also a big reason why I don't like huskys.


----------



## twochains

Damn Tiny... looks like some fine cutting right there! :msp_thumbup:


----------



## roberte

good example of pivoting off that dawg on the humbolt.


----------



## HuskStihl

That was really smooth. Much respect for the ability. I like how you combined hanging in there to avoid fiber pull and running away like a big girl I would have run away like a little girl, prolly with some squealing:biggrin:


----------



## twochains

HuskStihl said:


> That was really smooth. Much respect for the ability. I like how you combined hanging in there to avoid fiber pull and running away like a big girl I would have run away like a little girl, prolly with some squealing:biggrin:



Good stuff right there Husk! LOL!


----------



## madhatte

Jacked my first tree yesterday. It was on the edge of a gas pipeline ROW, so I figured that was justification enough to learn how to do something new. Here's the stump: 







and here you can see the ROW: 






Really didn't need to jack it, but it was a lot less work than wedging. That's just a 20-T bottle jack with a steel plate sitting on top of it. It stayed put pretty well, but then it only needed a couple of inches of lift to tip. Figure this means I have another trick in my bag.


----------



## lfnh

Good to see that trusty blue wedge in action.
Nice pics.


----------



## treeslayer2003

madhatte, thats pretty good. i never done that either, will some day. did ya see bitzer's rig he posted a while back? looks easy to rig up.


----------



## paccity

nice nathan. have you thought of trying to put a gauge on it? that would make me feel better on bigger sticks.


----------



## tramp bushler

I didn't fall hardly nothing this week. Spent 5-6 hours every day in the spurs. Side trimming limbs along the power lines. You'll have t go to Arb 101 later to see some pics. Don't have them up yet.


----------



## paccity

would post more pics , but i don't have a personal photographer to tag along.:msp_rolleyes:


----------



## HuskStihl

I know who will *not* be leading the wedge bashing fitness class


----------



## madhatte

paccity said:


> nice nathan. have you thought of trying to put a gauge on it? that would make me feel better on bigger sticks.



If jacking trees is ever something I do regularly, I will definitely put a gauge on it. In this case, I palmed the wedge in to take up the slack after every pump or two. 21 pumps bought me 2 inches. Almost no wind. 150 ft tall, 32" at the stump. Different conditions would have changed the game. I would also very much like to have a way to actually fasten the plate to the top of the piston. Pretty sure I could have gotten into trouble had the wind and weight moved things around more than they did.



HuskStihl said:


> I know who will *not* be leading the wedge bashing fitness class



Still got a twinge of pain in my left shoulder from the last time I got over-ambitious with the wedging.


----------



## HuskStihl

madhatte said:


> I would also very much like to have a way to actually fasten the plate to the top of the piston.
> 
> *I may be misremembering, but I think Bitz has a 60 ton with a largish plate welded to the top of the piston*
> 
> Still got a twinge of pain in my left shoulder from the last time I got over-ambitious with the wedging.



I'll sign you up for Tramp's bashing class:msp_biggrin:


----------



## roberte

HuskStihl said:


> I'll sign you up for Tramp's bashing class:msp_biggrin:



that's the good part about being the instructor,

collect the tuition
get to watch all the suckers do your pounding opcorn:


----------



## coastalfaller

madhatte said:


> If jacking trees is ever something I do regularly, I will definitely put a gauge on it. In this case, I palmed the wedge in to take up the slack after every pump or two. 21 pumps bought me 2 inches. Almost no wind. 150 ft tall, 32" at the stump. Different conditions would have changed the game. I would also very much like to have a way to actually fasten the plate to the top of the piston. Pretty sure I could have gotten into trouble had the wind and weight moved things around more than they did.
> 
> 
> 
> Still got a twinge of pain in my left shoulder from the last time I got over-ambitious with the wedging.



We've machined an indent in a plate to fit over the ram, then used trampoline springs to hold it in place, much like the Silvey Hi Jacker, but nothing beats the actual Silvey jacks for when you really need them!


----------



## madhatte

coastalfaller said:


> We've machined an indent in a plate to fit over the ram, then used trampoline springs to hold it in place, much like the Silvey Hi Jacker, but nothing beats the actual Silvey jacks for when you really need them!



I do not recall seeing pictures of this. Could you post them please? 

I spoke with the good folks at Madsen's today and got some grim news on the Silvey front; it appears that unless the timber industry rebounds to about 1980 volumes in the next year or so, even parts won't be available, much less new equipment. This means we have to get crafty with the bits and pieces of old equipment and old know-how that we still have. I don't see having the cash or need for the whole shebang but I may well need to jack a tree every now and then. A duct-tape-and-baling-wire fix will beat nothing at all almost every time.


----------



## 056 kid

madhatte said:


> If jacking trees is ever something I do regularly, I will definitely put a gauge on it. In this case, I palmed the wedge in to take up the slack after every pump or two. 21 pumps bought me 2 inches. Almost no wind. 150 ft tall, 32" at the stump. Different conditions would have changed the game. I would also very much like to have a way to actually fasten the plate to the top of the piston. Pretty sure I could have gotten into trouble had the wind and weight moved things around more than they did.
> 
> 
> 
> Still got a twinge of pain in my left shoulder from the last time I got over-ambitious with the wedging.



I was taught to always back up a ram with wedges. More like pound till you get no more lift then pump some, then pound more, and pump etc.


----------



## coastalfaller

madhatte said:


> I do not recall seeing pictures of this. Could you post them please?
> 
> I spoke with the good folks at Madsen's today and got some grim news on the Silvey front; it appears that unless the timber industry rebounds to about 1980 volumes in the next year or so, even parts won't be available, much less new equipment. This means we have to get crafty with the bits and pieces of old equipment and old know-how that we still have. I don't see having the cash or need for the whole shebang but I may well need to jack a tree every now and then. A duct-tape-and-baling-wire fix will beat nothing at all almost every time.



That is grim, yikes. Not what I want to hear. 

I will post them, but will have to look around for one now. May be one kicking around in the back of the saw shop in one particular camp we used them, but have managed to accumulate a number of Silveys now. I'll check my next tour through there!


----------



## twochains

Hey I'm tryin to find Tree Slinger vids but there are several people with similar handles such as, tree slingr. Treeslinger, Tree Slinger. Which one is an AS member? The vids I am looking for are to music and they are compelation(sp) vids mostly back cuts in steep ground. Any help would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Samlock

056 kid said:


> I was taught to always back up a ram with wedges. More like pound till you get no more lift then pump some, then pound more, and pump etc.



You can say that again. Just last spring I nearly blocked a busy road when earth ate my jack while lifting.


----------



## madhatte

056 kid said:


> I was taught to always back up a ram with wedges. More like pound till you get no more lift then pump some, then pound more, and pump etc.



I get backing the ram up with wedges, but why pound 'em when you're jacking anyway? Does this reduce wear & tear on the ram?


----------



## RandyMac

madhatte said:


> I get backing the ram up with wedges, but why pound 'em when you're jacking anyway? Does this reduce wear & tear on the ram?



jacks can fail


----------



## Eccentric

When they're pounded in, the wood fibers are compressed and the wedges are holding weight. If the wedges are just pushed in then the tree could set back some (if the jack fails) before the fibers compress and the wedges do any good. That's my guess....


----------



## 056 kid

madhatte said:


> I get backing the ram up with wedges, but why pound 'em when you're jacking anyway? Does this reduce wear & tear on the ram?



I learned that from an old 3rd gen og faller. Like randy was saying they can fail.
and I a religiously follow the old adage, "never give an inch" sometimes an inch of sitback is all it takes to be screwed. All your gonna do is pop her right off the stump.


----------



## madhatte

Fair enough. Guess I'll be pounding them in from here on out.


----------



## tramp bushler

madhatte said:


> I get backing the ram up with wedges, but why pound 'em when you're jacking anyway? Does this reduce wear & tear on the ram?



Because Jacks fail sometimes. Sometimes you can split the back off a tree. There are a lot of reasons. I make the smallest area for the jack that I can and use a bigger plate than you hadthere . 40,000 lbs of lift is ALOT of pressure on a small area. You may recall some of Cody's spooky stories of some of his experiences jacking timber and the guage red lining from a gust of wind. 
Jacking is a good place for 15" Double Tapers.


----------



## tramp bushler

Well Randy, Aaron + 56 beat me to it. 
Not trying to gang up on ya. But its important. . May not look cool on a vid. But its the right way to do it.


----------



## madhatte

tramp bushler said:


> Well Randy, Aaron + 56 beat me to it.
> Not trying to gang up on ya. But its important. . May not look cool on a vid. But its the right way to do it.



I know when I've been schooled. I will do as you fellows say. Thank you all for the input. I reckon you might have saved me a braining or two.

Also:


twochains said:


> Hey I'm tryin to find Tree Slinger vids but there are several people with similar handles such as, tree slingr. Treeslinger, Tree Slinger. Which one is an AS member? The vids I am looking for are to music and they are compelation(sp) vids mostly back cuts in steep ground. Any help would be greatly appreciated.



Here you go.


----------



## twochains

Thanks madhatte


----------



## Metals406

coastalfaller said:


> We've machined an indent in a plate to fit over the ram, then used trampoline springs to hold it in place, much like the Silvey Hi Jacker, but nothing beats the actual Silvey jacks for when you really need them!



Where ya been Jordan? Hope you've had a productive summer so far.


----------



## twochains

Falling a couple pine snags in the FS blow down unit I am cutting. Evidently my bottom rail is nearly shot already on this new bar...fire char and sand I guess?? Anyway... 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBfBYlyzu2M&feature=c4-overview&list=UU_NjqCPS3PCA_PGz4NCZuLA


----------



## HuskStihl

twochains said:


> Falling a couple pine snags in the FS blow down unit I am cutting. Evidently my bottom rail is nearly shot already on this new bar...fire char and sand I guess?? Anyway...
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBfBYlyzu2M&feature=c4-overview&list=UU_NjqCPS3PCA_PGz4NCZuLA



Smooth dawgin and moving. Looked controlled and calm. I'd do it with a much bigger saw to reduce the time I'm doing the sit n spin at the base of a damaged tree. 660 to the rescue!


----------



## KYLogger

You all just 'whackin the snags, leaners and damaged crown trees?


----------



## coastalfaller

Metals406 said:


> Where ya been Jordan? Hope you've had a productive summer so far.



Busy busy busy!! Work has been crazy! How about you?


----------



## bitzer

Some of what I've been killin lately. 

Wisconsin punkin patch. Mostly hard maple averaging 6-700 bf. 

Poundin over a 1000bf maple. Had to double stack. Actually went pretty easy.






That maple stretched out. Ran outta tape on this one. 





Basswood. She cleaned up at 10ft. Still got 4 tens out of er. 4ft across the hinge. Left a lot and swung er right into the hole.





1500bf red oak. Ran outta tape on this one too. About 4ft on the stump.





My operator is gettin better (you can see him way at the back of the shot loading up). Then again my 390 was still stock this week. After I tear into er this weekend that will change. Today I stayed a bunk ahead of him all day. No time for screwin around. 






View attachment 311044

View attachment 311045

View attachment 311046

View attachment 311047

View attachment 311048


----------



## tramp bushler

twochains said:


> Falling a couple pine snags in the FS blow down unit I am cutting. Evidently my bottom rail is nearly shot already on this new bar...fire char and sand I guess?? Anyway...
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBfBYlyzu2M&feature=c4-overview&list=UU_NjqCPS3PCA_PGz4NCZuLA





Looks good Clint. When you took the 2 nd look at snag #2 then started walking I couldn't figure what u were doin, till I saw that limb. :msp_biggrin:

Bob ; I can't see the pics?? :msp_sad:
Did ya get a new saw. ???


----------



## treeslayer2003

Clint, I won't buy Oregon bars any more. they quality is gone. glad to se a wedge with ya there.


----------



## treeslayer2003

Bitzer, ya just teasin or what. can't see those pics, sounds like some sticks. you know im a fat hardwood junkie.


----------



## HuskStihl

Good to have bob and glen back, glad to see the two best 390 slingers I know are staying safe. Now that glens a full time climber I'll prolly be able to buy his 390 off him real cheap, although knowing the tramp, he could prolly haul the 390 with the 36 up a spar tree


----------



## 056 kid

We started opening up a hell of a draw Friday. I spanned a poplar maybe 32" dbh across with a block and a big old snipe. Saved out every inch, even the forks. Probably 25 feet off the creek bed mid way. If the loggers didn't get to it first I'll see if I can get a photo of me posing in the middle. That whole holler has a lot big timber photo opps.


----------



## treeslayer2003

056 kid said:


> We started opening up a hell of a draw Friday. I spanned a poplar maybe 32" dbh across with a block and a big old snipe. Saved out every inch, even the forks. Probably 25 feet off the creek bed mid way. If the loggers didn't get to it first I'll see if I can get a photo of me posing in the middle. That whole holler has a lot big timber photo opps.



I wants ta see them fatties kid. ya sure can make poplar do bout any thing. my favorite timber next to white oak.


----------



## tramp bushler

HuskStihl said:


> Good to have bob and glen back, glad to see the two best 390 slingers I know are staying safe. Now that glens a full time climber I'll prolly be able to buy his 390 off him real cheap, although knowing the tramp, he could prolly haul the 390 with the 36 up a spar tree




Ha ha ; you jokes!! Even tho I haven't put it back together from when I shipped it home I' m more of a faller than an arborist. And besides it may be taking a trip to Tennessee.


----------



## tramp bushler

Climbing is seasonal. For me anyway.


----------



## 056 kid

treeslayer2003 said:


> I wants ta see them fatties kid. ya sure can make poplar do bout any thing. my favorite timber next to white oak.



Hate to say it, but its all dog hair compared to what I Used to fall in me previous life...
I was made to put 8' Dougs into the dirt. I just get these eery feelings from time to time..


----------



## bitzer

bitzer said:


> Some of what I've been killin lately.
> 
> Wisconsin punkin patch. Mostly hard maple averaging 6-700 bf.
> 
> Poundin over a 1000bf maple. Had to double stack. Actually went pretty easy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That maple stretched out. Ran outta tape on this one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Basswood. She cleaned up at 10ft. Still got 4 tens out of er. 4ft across the hinge. Left a lot and swung er right into the hole.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1500bf red oak. Ran outta tape on this one too. About 4ft on the stump.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My operator is gettin better (you can see him way at the back of the shot loading up). Then again my 390 was still stock this week. After I tear into er this weekend that will change. Today I stayed a bunk ahead of him all day. No time for screwin around.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 311270
> 
> View attachment 311271
> 
> View attachment 311272
> 
> View attachment 311273
> 
> View attachment 311274



Fixed it I think!


----------



## bitzer

Glen- yeah I was kind of forced into it. The last job took 2 saws down. Smashed my little skidder saw and a bolt came loose inside the mullfer of the 440 hybrid and the piston tried to take a bite out of it. That left me with the 390. The recoil went on it and I couldn't wait 3 days for the part. New saw was the only option. I figured I put about 1800 hours on that last 390. She was getting awfully loose. Its nice to be running something new again. Especially on a big timber job. Didn't the bill for it yet though. 


Jon- I'd give Sam (Rounder) a little tip of the hat too. He likes him his 390. Hes a far sight better production faller than I am and hes got a lot prettier scenery to swing it around on.


----------



## bitzer

This is for Clint! This is what my 440/460BB used to sound like. Its got 3 ports in the muffler and I pushed all the engine ports to the limits. Still was pullin 180psi when it chomped that bolt. Last days of winter and last day on the job. Some ugly fence line red oaks. They were all tangled up together. Typically I would have just walked right by them on most jobs, but I was in no rush to get anywhere with break up approaching. 28" bar full comp chain. She screams with full skip on er. Just didn't have any that day. I'll have to get another top end kit from baileys. That saw put a chit ton of wood on the ground. 2000 plus hours on that slug and jug I'll bet. For the weight it really is a fun saw to toss around. 

[video=youtube;KRXFrgpAZHA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRXFrgpAZHA[/video]


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## treeslayer2003

nice sticks Bitz. thanks for the pics.


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## HuskStihl

bitzer said:


> Jon- I'd give Sam (Rounder) a little tip of the hat too. He likes him his 390. Hes a far sight better production faller than I am and hes got a lot prettier scenery to swing it around on.



US Sam does post some amazing pics. No disrespect to any other 390 pro. I've been extremely happy with my masterminded 394. Probably the best performing and best looking cinder block/boat anchor I've ever been around. Seems like you already know how to port pretty good yourself, however.


----------



## bitzer

HuskStihl said:


> US Sam does post some amazing pics. No disrespect to any other 390 pro. I've been extremely happy with my masterminded 394. Probably the best performing and best looking cinder block/boat anchor I've ever been around. Seems like you already know how to port pretty good yourself, however.



Yer ok Jon. Didn't think you were meaning anything. I just know how to run a saw with some level of competency. There's real timber fallers like Sam out there bangin er out every day. 

I wish I never would have sold my 394. I never got video of it either, but it had the coolest sound of any saw I've ever worked on. I totally gutted that big muffler and it sounded badass at idle and made yer ears bleed at wot.


----------



## tramp bushler

Ya the stump power of the 394 that's been juiced is pretty awesome. As always that's some nice lookin cutting Bob. I see the trigger safety lock lever is still in the grip on your new one. Mine might be taking a trip south when I get my 460 back. Which will hopefully be tomorrow. But I'll be in Valdez, darn it.


----------



## mdavlee

tramp bushler said:


> Ya the stump power of the 394 that's been juiced is pretty awesome. As always that's some nice lookin cutting Bob. I see the trigger safety lock lever is still in the grip on your new one. Mine might be taking a trip south when I get my 460 back. Which will hopefully be tomorrow. But I'll be in Valdez, darn it.



It was supposed to be there today. I hope it made it on time for what they charge to get it there. 

I think you'll be pleased with how it runs Glen. I know the HO oiler made a big difference on the 28" bar being wet on the drive links.


----------



## tramp bushler

Nice thing about smart phones, you can have them right out on the stump with you. But when you start to type and a bear walk up on you ya gotta be careful not to step on the phone when you jump up and start your saw. . . Mike. Geneva, my wife is going t check the mail when she gets off work. :msp_biggrin:


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## mdavlee

I guess that would be scary enough to drop the phone.


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## tramp bushler

Well, had t get the saw started. Didn't want to have to skin it so I didn't want t shoot it. 

Geneva said the saw got in. She picked it up. So its waiting for me t get home. :msp_thumbsup:


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## northmanlogging

and here I thought it was bad trying to shoe deer away from my lay... at least the deer aren't going to try and eat me...


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## tramp bushler

I'm gonna do something that will give u Stihl guys apoplexy. 
I'm gonna file down the top and bottom of the bar stud abutments so I can run Husky mount bars on it.


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## northmanlogging

tramp bushler said:


> I'm gonna do something that will give u Stihl guys apoplexy.
> I'm gonna file down the top and bottom of the bar stud abutments so I can run Husky mount bars on it.



Blasphemy!!!:msp_ohmy:


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## treeslayer2003

tramp bushler said:


> I'm gonna do something that will give u Stihl guys apoplexy.
> I'm gonna file down the top and bottom of the bar stud abutments so I can run Husky mount bars on it.



why not, if ya have um.


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## treeslayer2003

Glen, I want to know what ya think of that 460 when ya get to it. y'all got me thinkin bout an old one of mine.


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## tramp bushler

Ya.. I will. I'm thinking I will do a vid 
. 
Since I am primarily a Husky Man :msp_tongue:
And I'll be running 36" light weight bars no sense packing 2 different bar mounts.


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## tramp bushler

I've done it before. It works like a million bucks


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## twochains

Cutting some pine snags on FS blow down unit. Using 30" bar and full comp square filed chain. opcorn:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=058n8v-B29Q&feature=c4-overview&list=UU_NjqCPS3PCA_PGz4NCZuLA


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## treeslayer2003

very nice. I bet yer skidder man likes that open flat terrain.
have them trees been thru fire?


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## HuskStihl

Nice Clint. This'll sound mean, and i apologize for ever doubting you in the past, but I used to watch your videos thinking there might just be a screw up, but now I watch them to learn how to do it better. Except for the no gloves, gives me the heebeegeebies. You are a real pro, not a "not so pro." Now the bad news, that particular 460 looks pretty tight, that 660 isn't going to make much difference in that wood, just be heavier. 32" in hardwood? Different story. PM me your address and I'll mail you an axe or mini-sledge, u'r choice. I am enjoying your wedging. This will sound corny, especially as I am still far from the transition, its nice to see one of the guys "graduating" to "that's pretty darn good" status


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## tramp bushler

Clint ; that's lookin good.


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## Metals406

coastalfaller said:


> Busy busy busy!! Work has been crazy! How about you?



Same same. . . Spent 4 hard days on a fire sawing line and cut'n snags. The rest of the time I'm framing a 70+ thousand square foot high school. That'll make ya tired too. LOL

Farmers Almanac is saying a real cold, snowy winter. . . I have a few more cords of wood to put up too.


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## bitzer

Nate- I heard that we are supposed to get that kinda winter too. I hope its cold enough. 

Coos bay maple. Average sized wood for this job.






I threw this one on top across the bottom three so I didn't bury the skid trail or my logs. Digging through huge maple tops really slows the log picker down. The smallest stem was not marked, but woulda got smacked in this set either way. Just average wood for this job again.





5 10s in this maple and no taper. Just some beautiful logs. 





Red oak around 40" on the stump or so. I didn't measure it, just eye-balln.






View attachment 312568

View attachment 312569

View attachment 312570

View attachment 312571


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## JakeG

bitzer.. Good lookin timber, and nice work!


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## twochains

bitzer said:


> Nate- I heard that we are supposed to get that kinda winter too. I hope its cold enough.
> 
> Coos bay maple. Average sized wood for this job.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I threw this one on top across the bottom three so I didn't bury the skid trail or my logs. Digging through huge maple tops really slows the log picker down. The smallest stem was not marked, but woulda got smacked in this set either way. Just average wood for this job again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5 10s in this maple and no taper. Just some beautiful logs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Red oak around 40" on the stump or so. I didn't measure it, just eye-balln.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 312568
> 
> View attachment 312569
> 
> View attachment 312570
> 
> View attachment 312571



Looks great Bitz! Are you using square filed or round in your hardwood? You don't cut pine very often huh? What State do you cut in mostly?


----------



## bitzer

twochains said:


> Looks great Bitz! Are you using square filed or round in your hardwood? You don't cut pine very often huh? What State do you cut in mostly?



Thanks Clint! Round with a kick. I use two different wheels on the teeth when I grind them. There is decent pine saw timber in the hardwood/conifer mixed forests a couple hundred miles north of me, but I'm in the hardwood belt of the state. The only pine around here is in plantations. Just little stuff. I live in Wisconsin and I've been cutting most of my timber within 30 miles of my house for 2 years. The job I'm cutting now is about 15 miles away.


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## tramp bushler

So here is the 460 that Mike juiced for me. I pulled the bar studs today andfiled them down so the Husky mount bars will fit even tho I have an OK 36" Oregon. Stihl mount . With the LW 36" bar on it hangs just right for fallin limbin and buckin. I haven't tried it in anything worthy of the saw yet but it's got a lot more snort than it did stock. And it spools up instantly!!! The HD oiler kept the chain nice and lubed for what I did today and the chain was quieter on the bar then before. the Husky mount bars fit great.


----------



## treeslayer2003

good to see ya Glen. saw looks good, I can't wait to here what ya think of it in a big one.


----------



## twochains

That saw is a "runner" huh Glen? I saw a vid mdavlee put up of the saw...looked like it was a cuttin' machine! 

Hey what have you been up to lately? Is it already cooling off up there?


----------



## mdavlee

I think you'll like how it pulls. Those spikes are real nice also. I need to find a 46 to put my set on now


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## tramp bushler

Where's the vid. Today is the first day I have had squat for energy. I cut half of 11,000' of right of way last week and the Tramp was beat..


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## bitzer

Tramp! That looks like a bushelin' saw. You thinkin about something?

I was beat all weekend until today. A Monday that didn't feel like a Monday. Put some wood on the ground and got out of there early. Still got to spend the rest of the day with the family. It was a pretty good day. I've been 8 days on this big timber job and have somewhere around 70mbf cut. I'm getting itchy to get out of there. I need some softer wood to cut. Big hard maple all day gets old. Should be another 40 to 50mbf left. If it stays dry I'll be swampin next. Not sure if I'm lookin forward to it.


----------



## tramp bushler

Well, a guys gotta be all geared up Before he can go to a camp. . I don't need a juiced saw here in the Interior. But for production and as I already had the saw I figure it will work well. The juice brings it up to an 80 cc size saw or more. I can bushel with a light weight 80+ cc saw. 
I figure I'll need a pair of 390 s and the 460 . The saw shop in a logging camp is just a building every cutter brings his own saws. And every cutter is his own saw mechanic. 

I figure take some time gearing up. Then if I find a nice cutting job. Zoom zoom.


----------



## twochains

tramp bushler said:


> Well, a guys gotta be all geared up Before he can go to a camp. . I don't need a juiced saw here in the Interior. But for production and as I already had the saw I figure it will work well. The juice brings it up to an 80 cc size saw or more. I can bushel with a light weight 80+ cc saw.
> I figure I'll need a pair of 390 s and the 460 . The saw shop in a logging camp is just a building every cutter brings his own saws. And every cutter is his own saw mechanic.
> 
> I figure take some time gearing up. Then if I find a nice cutting job. Zoom zoom.



Hey Glen, what is that bar ya have mounted on the 460? What is the average size tree in that powerline right of way? Thats a crap load of trees right on the lines...does that timber co-operate pretty well?


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## HuskStihl

That's his 36" Oregon lightweight. Silly question Clint. *All* timber cooperates with The Tramp!


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## tramp bushler

twochains said:


> Hey Glen, what is that bar ya have mounted on the 460? What is the average size tree in that powerline right of way? Thats a crap load of trees right on the lines...does that timber co-operate pretty well?




Most of what we r cutting under the lines is cottonwood, alder, some birch, spruce and mountain hemlock. But it is brush size. Mostly 1'-25' tall. On the sides of the r.o.w. the timber gets up to 90' tall. I did fall a bout 25 spruce and hemlock that had Limbed out so the were well under the lines. . The largest that I just fell was 28" on the stump. I left a half dozen that will need klum and side Limbed or have a pulling ect line hung in them and pulled. Different contract. This conifer timber in Valdez on the hillside is pretty brittle so almost every one got a sizwheel put in it. Multiple stepkerf dutchman. I was running a 460 . But it was all orange and made in Sweden. 24" bar full skip 3/8 round filed chisel.


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## JakeG

Tramp, I used to have one of the all orange 460's with a 24". They're okay for what they are and it should have been a little better with full skip. I'm glad you have the real 460 now


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## Trx250r180

Have you guys made any stumps with a hopped up 461 yet ?


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## tramp bushler

JakeG said:


> Tramp, I used to have one of the all orange 460's with a 24". They're okay for what they are and it should have been a little better with full skip. I'm glad you have the real 460 now




The guy I climb for and do power line row brush cutting supplies the saws for the crew. He has 13 or 14 Husky 460 s. All with 24" bars. They are the standard saw for the crew. They cut. That's about all they need to do. They are almost comparable to a 038 Stihl except lighter with less vibration. Not as much power but they work. Most of the guys he hires aren't up to being able to maximize them. They can't seem to be able to keep the chain out of the dirt and rocks. 
Everyone has to start somewhere so that's where these guys start. 

When I have timber to fall for him I either run one of his old fallin saws or I use one of my own. 

When I'm doing my own work I run my own saws.


----------



## tramp bushler

Trx250r180 said:


> Have you guys made any stumps with a hopped up 461 yet ?



IMO, Stihl dropped the ball with the 461 by not stretching the handles out and not spring mounting it. Too many short bar runners with that size saw. 

I think Northman runs a 461 . ???

All this modern 2 barrel Carb foolishness is the foreseeable end of pro saw advancement IMO. Heavy stupid things. Why didn't they put the 461 motor in a 441 chassis. ??????


----------



## Trx250r180

tramp bushler said:


> IMO, Stihl dropped the ball with the 461 by not stretching the handles out and not spring mounting it. Too many short bar runners with that size saw.
> 
> I think Northman runs a 461 . ???
> 
> All this modern 2 barrel Carb foolishness is the foreseeable end of pro saw advancement IMO. Heavy stupid things. Why didn't they put the 461 motor in a 441 chassis. ??????



my 461 handlebar is more stretched out than the early 440-460 saws ,they feel similar to a full loop to me for room ,i run them on my 440 saws now ,the 441 isn't the seller over the tried and true 460 so they seemed to keep it as close to that as possible it seems like ,here's my 440 saws with 461 handles ,lot more room than with the 440 handles 

View attachment 312958
View attachment 312959
View attachment 312960
View attachment 312961


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## treeslayer2003

i'm running the stock 461, it has a lot more tourqe than my 460s. I don't know of a logger that has one ported yet. mabbe i'll think about it.


----------



## JakeG

treeslayer2003 said:


> i'm running the stock 461, it has a lot more tourqe than my 460s. I don't know of a logger that has one ported yet. mabbe i'll think about it.



Have you made up your mind? It's been 20 minutes


----------



## treeslayer2003

JakeG said:


> Have you made up your mind? It's been 20 minutes



lemme see how I like the 660 ported first.


----------



## Trx250r180

treeslayer2003 said:


> i'm running the stock 461, it has a lot more tourqe than my 460s. I don't know of a logger that has one ported yet. mabbe i'll think about it.




this chains not my greatest ,too much raker depth so it bogged the power some ,its off the roll grind too ,once i sharpen 2-3 times they seem to be smoother cutting ,doug fir that was down for a while for test cut 

[video=youtube;9BZ7nZKCYrI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BZ7nZKCYrI[/video]


----------



## JakeG

Sounds healthy! :msp_thumbup:


----------



## RVALUE

JakeG said:


> Have you made up your mind? It's been 20 minutes



That's hilarious.


----------



## Deleted member 110241

View attachment 313054


I helped a friend take down this pine, he's the climber. I worked the winch and limbed the top.


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## 1270d

Unfortunate it had a "W". We don't often have any trees this big let alone maple


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## treeslayer2003

1270d said:


> Unfortunate it had a "W". We don't often have any trees this big let alone maple



as in wire I assume. ya gonna have to buck that twin stump off anyway, prolly get a grade after that hopefully. you could stand a bit more bar on that one.


----------



## HuskStihl

Trx250r180 said:


> this chains not my greatest ,too much raker depth so it bogged the power some ,its off the roll grind too ,once i sharpen 2-3 times they seem to be smoother cutting ,doug fir that was down for a while for test cut
> 
> [video=youtube;9BZ7nZKCYrI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BZ7nZKCYrI[/video]



Looks more like a grinder than a saw. I thought you were black!:biggrin:


----------



## hammerlogging

treeslayer2003 said:


> as in wire I assume. ya gonna have to buck that twin stump off anyway, prolly get a grade after that hopefully. you could stand a bit more bar on that one.



"wildlife"


----------



## bitzer

I think its funny when trees get marked as wildlife. Why mark it at all at least in a select cut scenario. I cut a "W" maple tree a couple of jobs ago. There were plenty of unmarked "W" trees in the area and this particular marked "W" had 3 nice 10s in it. I'd like to think it was a mistake, but I've cut jobs marked by this guy before. Not my normal paint guy.


----------



## 1270d

The reason they mark them as wildlife is to comply with some fsc or sfi rule. And so they can fine us if we cut em. Whatever, they re not my trees.

That's the faller I have cutting for me, gave him the option of what bar he wanted. 24 it is. He's happy that's what matters.


----------



## bitzer

1270d said:


> The reason they mark them as wildlife is to comply with some fsc or sfi rule. And so they can fine us if we cut em. Whatever, they re not my trees.
> .



I was kind of worried about that when I cut it, but it was in the way of my set and it did have a stump spot on it. I think he changed his mind a couple of times then sprayed the "W" on it. That stand looked like it was marked by an amateur. It was bad. Marked trees leaning heavily into unmarked trees, not enough marked to lay may trees out, etc. You want to do the best you can do, but in terms of safety and efficiency I ended up cutting a lot of stuff that should have been marked in the first place. It was either that or pull down a lot of trees (which I did the first day or so). Total bs. I think every forester should have to cut a stand of their own marked timber and live off of what they cut before they are allowed to mark anything else in the future. This guy clearly had limited if any time with a saw in his hands. He was a government employee by the way. Not knocking foresters here at all just fed up with incompetent crap that makes my already tough job harder. My guy is pretty good, but there are times where I shake my head. He did production cut about 25 years ago which does make a difference I think.


----------



## Gologit

bitzer said:


> I was kind of worried about that when I cut it, but it was in the way of my set and it did have a stump spot on it. I think he changed his mind a couple of times then sprayed the "W" on it. That stand looked like it was marked by an amateur. It was bad. Marked trees leaning heavily into unmarked trees, not enough marked to lay may trees out, etc. You want to do the best you can do, but in terms of safety and efficiency I ended up cutting a lot of stuff that should have been marked in the first place. It was either that or pull down a lot of trees (which I did the first day or so). Total bs. I think every forester should have to cut a stand of their own marked timber and live off of what they cut before they are allowed to mark anything else in the future. This guy clearly had limited if any time with a saw in his hands. He was a government employee by the way. Not knocking foresters here at all just fed up with incompetent crap that makes my already tough job harder. My guy is pretty good, but there are times where I shake my head. He did production cut about 25 years ago which does make a difference I think.



Bitz, you're starting to sound like a logger.


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## bitzer

Gologit said:


> Bitz, you're starting to sound like a logger.



Well I bought a new starter to keep in the truck because I know the one in the machine is going and I'm pretty sure I'm getting screwed on scale or at least it seems like it. That sound familiar at all? :msp_biggrin:


----------



## Gologit

bitzer said:


> Well I bought a new starter to keep in the truck because I know the one in the machine is going and I'm pretty sure I'm getting screwed on scale or at least it seems like it. That sound familiar at all? :msp_biggrin:



Yup. Very familiar. I always figure that on scale we're not getting screwed as bad as we think...but we're getting screwed more than we should be.

Gotta go look at marked trees tomorrow and try to figure out where the boundaries are. Private sector tree markers can leave you guessing too. As in..."I marked three of the corners with blue and red ribbon but I ran out of those colors and marked the last corner with white paint instead". Oh. Now I know why I couldn't find that corner. :msp_angry:

See you folks tomorrow.


----------



## bitzer

Gologit said:


> Yup. Very familiar. I always figure that on scale we're not getting screwed as bad as we think...but we're getting screwed more than we should be.
> 
> .



Yeah if they are stickin me they are very consistent. Time and time again the scale vs the logs sent adds up. I keep a pretty close eye on what I'm sending and what goes out. But still its like man I made a lot of wood today and that's what it scales at? Ah well, that keeps everyone on their toes anyway.


----------



## 1270d

The sale I'm cutting now was marked OK in some units but not others. They hire summer students from the university to mark, so lots of experience at nothing at all. 

We have some kind of disease coming through and killing a lot of the maple. They die from the top down, well these student markers must have stiff necks. They never tip their heads back enough to see higher than twenty feet. May times there will be a ten or twelve inch slick hard maple marked right next to a withering one or a thirty foot stob which isn't marked. The residual stand isn't nearly as good as it could be.

Oh well, I gave up on arguing. Its their timber. Cut the paint and shut your mouth. I'm not university educated so how could I possibly do a decent job.


----------



## slowp

1270d said:


> The sale I'm cutting now was marked OK in some units but not others. They hire summer students from the university to mark, so lots of experience at nothing at all.
> 
> We have some kind of disease coming through and killing a lot of the maple. They die from the top down, well these student markers must have stiff necks. They never tip their heads back enough to see higher than twenty feet. May times there will be a ten or twelve inch slick hard maple marked right next to a withering one or a thirty foot stob which isn't marked. The residual stand isn't nearly as good as it could be.
> 
> Oh well, I gave up on arguing. Its their timber. Cut the paint and shut your mouth. I'm not university educated so how could I possibly do a decent job.



We have some disease that sounds similar. As a former marker, I'll tell you that nobody can production mark a unit and please everybody. Also, if that maple thing is the same as out here, and they marked the area a year or two ahead of you, there's no way they could tell it was infected with whatever it is. I've got a dead maple that looked very healthy last year. 

Marking is the introduction to forestry job. Now, it might help if you loggers suggest to the person in charge of the district that it might be nice for the markers to take a day and wander a unit with you. We can't all be faller gods  and if nobody talks to the crew or shows them what is going on, they'll continue to do the same thing. 

Also, there usually are no "university educated" folks out marking timber on crews, unless they are liberal arts grads who can't find another job.
Most folks I've worked with marking are locals or just folks who want to work in the woods. 

I spent a morning "training" some fallers so they could mark. They did an excellent job. Excellent.


----------



## 1270d

The head forester I'm working with right now does a beautiful job marking. Unfortunately he is usually too busy supervising the summer kids and setting up sales/paperwork to mark much. 

I live in relatively close to Michigan Tech University which has a popular forestry program. Most of the students in this program take summer jobs marking timber or log scaling.

I would be interested in hearing more about your version of the maple disease. 
It actually seems to effect most of our hardwoods, just some take longer to show symptoms. Basswood and black ash seem to last a bit longer as does yellow birch. The name I've heard it referred to is maple dieback or top dieback. The first sign of it is small tufts of green moss in the upper portion of the crown.  Within a year or two there will be more dead branches with no bark. It will progress downward from the crown over the course of several years, eventually killing the whole tree.
Foresters in my area seem divided over this. Half(or so) seem to think this is a symptom of drought and the timber will recover, the other half is doing targeted clear cuts to try and nip the spread of the dieback. Lack of water/drought seems to be a bad argument since timber growing in areas that hold water all season are going as well.
There are some who think that our forest may be "turning over" and reverting to more of a conifer dominated ecosystem. Its hard not to agree in some areas as the white pine are coming up super thick in the understory. 

It s pretty scary though, considering almost our entire logging and forestry industry is based around hardwood sawtimber. If it dies over the next 10 or 20 years...


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## treeslayer2003

red oak been doing something like that here. no one seems to care but me.


----------



## 1270d

Some folks don't seem to understand that many loggers care about the forest more than anyone. Its our livelyhood


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## treeslayer2003

yup, very well said. they think we hate trees, nothing could be further from the truth. what will we log if all the young trees die?


----------



## bitzer

Miss P- I tell my forester all the time and go over what things are working and what are not for me and we do work together very well. The majority of the foresters I know have a forestry degree from UW-Stevens Point. The painter on that job I was complaining about included. I've talked to other loggers that have cut his jobs and they have said the same thing. The next job I run into of his I will definitely be calling in a pow wow for a day. I thought about it on the last one, but machine break downs had me itching to get out of there asap. I've cut two marked by him and he is a younger guy so I know I will run into more of them in the future. I also like talking to the landowners because I think there is a disconnect if I do not. The forester does his part, but sometimes I can shed more light on the landowners questions than the forester can.


----------



## madhatte

As a forester type, I never consider a question regarding tree stuff "fully answered" without logger input. You folks on this messageboard have filled in many a blank spot over the years for me where local folks were unable to provide the answers I was looking for. I know who my experts are.


----------



## Keen

A few pics of last week and the new toy. Some pretty nice oaks on this job. Everything thing over 16" dbh goes. 

View attachment 313602
View attachment 313603
View attachment 313604


----------



## treeslayer2003

Keen said:


> A few pics of last week and the new toy. Some pretty nice oaks on this job. Everything thing over 16" dbh goes.
> 
> View attachment 313602
> View attachment 313603
> View attachment 313604



nice work there Keen. good example on that first stump of what I think the hinge should look like on oak. where are you getting those Windsor bars?


----------



## RVALUE

treeslayer2003 said:


> yup, very well said. they think we hate trees, nothing could be further from the truth. what will we log if all the young trees die?



Remember: "Earth First. We'll log the rest of the planets later."


----------



## Keen

treeslayer2003 said:


> nice work there Keen. good example on that first stump of what I think the hinge should look like on oak. where are you getting those Windsor bars?



Thanks the tree in the first pic had a pretty good lean so it was plunged and bored. It has 12 foot of veneer in it so I made sure there wasn't any pull. I have been getting the bars from Ahlborn equipment, 24" for $28. They said they were rebadged Windsor to forester pro. The box says made in china so I doubt they really are. They hold up for me equal or better than the power match bars and at half the price I can't complain. Sad thing is I'm paying about the same price for a loop of 24" rm chain.


----------



## tramp bushler

Looks great. Nice looking forwarder too.


----------



## Keen

Thanks Tramp, It was listed for 22 and talked the dealer down to 16500. Changed a head gasket and a injector and runs like a champ. Haven't been able to burn more than 5 gals of fuel a day. I'm guessing with your terrain and timber out there forwarders are mighty rare?


----------



## OlympicYJ

slowp said:


> We have some disease that sounds similar. As a former marker, I'll tell you that nobody can production mark a unit and please everybody. Also, if that maple thing is the same as out here, and they marked the area a year or two ahead of you, there's no way they could tell it was infected with whatever it is. I've got a dead maple that looked very healthy last year.
> 
> Marking is the introduction to forestry job. Now, it might help if you loggers suggest to the person in charge of the district that it might be nice for the markers to take a day and wander a unit with you. We can't all be faller gods  and if nobody talks to the crew or shows them what is going on, they'll continue to do the same thing.
> 
> Also, there usually are no "university educated" folks out marking timber on crews, unless they are liberal arts grads who can't find another job.
> Most folks I've worked with marking are locals or just folks who want to work in the woods.
> 
> I spent a morning "training" some fallers so they could mark. They did an excellent job. Excellent.



I hear ya Miss P. Quite a few of my fellow students are marking timber but most of em that are, are working for IDL. I do agree its hard to do it right and hard to please everyone. I've never done a marking like you guys are talking about but I've done a CT myself so I was selecting as I cut. It just takes some common sense which I'll agree allot of "university" educated lack. They just gotta get the experience with the help of more experienced foresters and input from the loggers. Like you and Nate I've found asking your loggers opinion and for their help is always a good idea and helps build a good working relationship.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


----------



## bitzer

Hey Keen is that a butt grapple or a bypass? I had a big ole beasty butt bucket on my franklin when I bought it. Got a bypass last Feb. and man production made a huge jump! Are you in the U.P. or lower Mich? I tried to order some stuff from Alhborn, but they said I needed to be a dealer or distributor or something. Also are all the wedges in the picture where they were when the tree tipped? I mean did you pound them all in there in all those spots?


----------



## tramp bushler

Now Bob ; don't be like me! :msp_ohmy:


----------



## tramp bushler

Keen said:


> Thanks Tramp, It was listed for 22 and talked the dealer down to 16500. Changed a head gasket and a injector and runs like a champ. Haven't been able to burn more than 5 gals of fuel a day. I'm guessing with your terrain and timber out there forwarders are mighty rare?




Oh ya ; too many greeny's and other office trash around Alaska to have a good timber industry. Where I live in the Intrerior it is hood skidder/ forwarder country in the winter.


----------



## madhatte

bitzer said:


> I think every forester should have to cut a stand of their own marked timber and live off of what they cut before they are allowed to mark anything else in the future. This guy clearly had limited if any time with a saw in his hands. He was a government employee by the way.



As a government employee who has to train new guys to mark every year, I couldn't agree more. The guys who have cut some before ALWAYS do a better job of marking. The ones who never fail to drive me nuts are the ones who hire on just for the fire/haz pay and think that marking timber is somehow "beneath" them, or the guys from somewhere else who can't stomach the brush. I always train my guys to think ahead to not only how the cutter will cut, but how the skidder will hook up and pull, and also how the stand will look 5 years after the tree is gone. Sometimes it takes, often it doesn't. All I can do is keep trying. I can't be everywhere at once.


----------



## Keen

bitzer said:


> Hey Keen is that a butt grapple or a bypass? I had a big ole beasty butt bucket on my franklin when I bought it. Got a bypass last Feb. and man production made a huge jump! Are you in the U.P. or lower Mich? I tried to order some stuff from Alhborn, but they said I needed to be a dealer or distributor or something. Also are all the wedges in the picture where they were when the tree tipped? I mean did you pound them all in there in all those spots?



Its a butt grapple, I'll have to save some coin and get a bypass. Nothing like picking up a hand full of pulp sticks that don't pinch tight and tumble out and you have to play pickup sticks. Its reassuring to hear that it boosted production, so i'll put it on the "must have list". It was about 4 years ago that I got set up with Alhborn. I had a little chainsaw shop then, they didn't ask me for a tax ID number then. I wasn't aware that you had to be dealer. So I'll consider myself lucky. I would use the phase " I would like to set up a little chainsaw shop and try your product ..............lol see if that gets you a account. Im in central Michigan, the forwarder came out of the UP in Wakefield from Deliches. There was a nice looking 132 in lady smith I was temped to look at, but got them talked down enough on this one. My brother tipped the tree over with the wedges, I assume they were in the same spot. The double stack in the back looks a little to deep, so they may have been moved. He's a wedge pounding SOB! I like the notch and flop method.


----------



## twochains

Keen said:


> A few pics of last week and the new toy. Some pretty nice oaks on this job. Everything thing over 16" dbh goes.
> 
> View attachment 313602
> View attachment 313603
> View attachment 313604



I don't understand the 2nd pic at all...where was the saw supposed to be cutting from? There are wedges everywhere. The tree seemed to wedge from 3 different angles and felled opposite if what seems to be a hinge maybe in the middle?? I mean am I looking at something wrong?  If what I am seeing is correct, the tree is felled opposite of what seems to be a missed stump jump hinge, but the wedges indicate that the tree was wedged in the direction it is laying. Looks like the tree was cut from the sides of the notch all the way to the middle and then felled perpendicular to the gun cuts...but how? There are wedges all in there. Maybe it's me, I'm puzzled..however it is almost 3 am and I should be asleep because I have to wake up at 5...oh brother.


----------



## 1270d

Keen said:


> Its a butt grapple, I'll have to save some coin and get a bypass. Nothing like picking up a hand full of pulp sticks that don't pinch tight and tumble out and you have to play pickup sticks. Its reassuring to hear that it boosted production, so i'll put it on the "must have list". It was about 4 years ago that I got set up with Alhborn. I had a little chainsaw shop then, they didn't ask me for a tax ID number then. I wasn't aware that you had to be dealer. So I'll consider myself lucky. I would use the phase " I would like to set up a little chainsaw shop and try your product ..............lol see if that gets you a account. Im in central Michigan, the forwarder came out of the UP in Wakefield from Deliches. There was a nice looking 132 in lady smith I was temped to look at, but got them talked down enough on this one. My brother tipped the tree over with the wedges, I assume they were in the same spot. The double stack in the back looks a little to deep, so they may have been moved. He's a wedge pounding SOB! I like the notch and flop method.



I'm pretty sure I know the previous owners of that forwarder if you picked it up from Delich. They live about six miles from me. I think they went under about a year and a half or two years ago


----------



## Keen

twochains said:


> I don't understand the 2nd pic at all...where was the saw supposed to be cutting from? There are wedges everywhere. The tree seemed to wedge from 3 different angles and felled opposite if what seems to be a hinge maybe in the middle?? I mean am I looking at something wrong?  If what I am seeing is correct, the tree is felled opposite of what seems to be a missed stump jump hinge, but the wedges indicate that the tree was wedged in the direction it is laying. Looks like the tree was cut from the sides of the notch all the way to the middle and then felled perpendicular to the gun cuts...but how? There are wedges all in there. Maybe it's me, I'm puzzled..however it is almost 3 am and I should be asleep because I have to wake up at 5...oh brother.[/QU
> 
> He should of took the pic before he cut the hinge lol, the tree went exactly where it was suppose too. He maxed out his double stacks in back and his hinge was set how he wanted it. So he could drive wedges from just behind the hinge for added lift. Nothing special. The piece on the right of the picture that looks like a face is butt trim.


----------



## Keen

1270d said:


> I'm pretty sure I know the previous owners of that forwarder if you picked it up from Delich. They live about six miles from me. I think they went under about a year and a half or two years ago



They said the previous owner traded this in on a fab tech I believe. They had it since march.


----------



## Gologit

madhatte said:


> As a government employee who has to train new guys to mark every year, I couldn't agree more. The guys who have cut some before ALWAYS do a better job of marking. The ones who never fail to drive me nuts are the ones who hire on just for the fire/haz pay and think that marking timber is somehow "beneath" them, or the guys from somewhere else who can't stomach the brush. I always train my guys to think ahead to not only how the cutter will cut, but how the skidder will hook up and pull, and also how the stand will look 5 years after the tree is gone. Sometimes it takes, often it doesn't. All I can do is keep trying. I can't be everywhere at once.



Thank you.


----------



## HuskStihl

Keen said:


> He should of took the pic before he cut the hinge lol, the tree went exactly where it was suppose too. He maxed out his double stacks in back and his hinge was set how he wanted it. So he could drive wedges from just behind the hinge for added lift. Nothing special. The piece on the right of the picture that looks like a face is butt trim.



I know it's how it's done, but to an outsider falling a 40" tree with a 16" bar seems like a lot more work than necessary. The work and timber look great BTW


----------



## slowp

1270d said:


> I would be interested in hearing more about your version of the maple disease.
> It actually seems to effect most of our hardwoods, just some take longer to show symptoms. Basswood and black ash seem to last a bit longer as does yellow birch. The name I've heard it referred to is maple dieback or top dieback. The first sign of it is small tufts of green moss in the upper portion of the crown. Within a year or two there will be more dead branches with no bark. It will progress downward from the crown over the course of several years, eventually killing the whole tree.
> Foresters in my area seem divided over this. Half(or so) seem to think this is a symptom of drought and the timber will recover, the other half is doing targeted clear cuts to try and nip the spread of the dieback. Lack of water/drought seems to be a bad argument since timber growing in areas that hold water all season are going as well.
> There are some who think that our forest may be "turning over" and reverting to more of a conifer dominated ecosystem. Its hard not to agree in some areas as the white pine are coming up super thick in the understory.
> 
> It s pretty scary though, considering almost our entire logging and forestry industry is based around hardwood sawtimber. If it dies over the next 10 or 20 years...



I'll start a thread which will shortly disappear to the back realms somewhere. In fact, I think I already did a year or two ago so I won't.
Our native maples are dying. The first sign is usually a dead branch often near the top. Then, within a year, the tree is often dead. I've got one to cut down on a suitable day that looked perfectly healthy, is about 10" in diameter, and has just about lost all of its leaves. That's too early and I'm sure it is dead. 

Our valley has been experiencing this since the 1990s. I've heard that a valley in Oregon has it too. When I was working, I called in disease specialist who had a hard time scheduling a day to come up from Oregon, but oohed and ahhed and chopped a lot of bark. We didn't hear anymore from her.

We've heard that it may be two things combined--root rot with a blight. I heard via this site that it is starting up to the north now, which is nearer to the Seattle/Olympia/Tacoma area which is the only place that counts in our state so maybe more researchers will take heed. 

Until then, everybody in our area has a heck of a lot of maple firewood. I've now had 4 trees die from it on my little 5 acre parcel.


----------



## Eccentric

madhatte said:


> As a government employee who has to train new guys to mark every year, I couldn't agree more. The guys who have cut some before ALWAYS do a better job of marking. The ones who never fail to drive me nuts are the ones who hire on just for the fire/haz pay and think that marking timber is somehow "beneath" them, or the guys from somewhere else who can't stomach the brush. I always train my guys to think ahead to not only how the cutter will cut, but how the skidder will hook up and pull, and also how the stand will look 5 years after the tree is gone. Sometimes it takes, often it doesn't. All I can do is keep trying. I can't be everywhere at once.



Not many folks are willing to use the *forward thinking* needed to do that job well Nate.


----------



## Keen

HuskStihl said:


> I know it's how it's done, but to an outsider falling a 40" tree with a 16" bar seems like a lot more work than necessary. The work and timber look great BTW



Those are 24" bars I agree makes for more work but most of the timber is around 24". The biggest bar I own is 36" and wouldn't be worth putting on for the few biggens. Come on now! 16" were short barred over here but not that short, the 372 is at a angle facing away so the bar looks really short


----------



## RandyMac

HuskStihl said:


> I know it's how it's done, but to an outsider falling a 40" tree with a 16" bar seems like a lot more work than necessary.



how about a 12 footer with a 48"?


----------



## HuskStihl

RandyMac said:


> how about a 12 footer with a 48"?



Bull####, you'd have to be some sort of OG falling legend to do that! Oh, nevermind....


----------



## Blazin

RandyMac said:


> how about a 12 footer with a 48"?



Overkill...


----------



## HuskStihl

Keen said:


> Those are 24" bars I agree makes for more work but most of the timber is around 24". The biggest bar I own is 36" and wouldn't be worth putting on for the few biggens. Come on now! 16" were short barred over here but not that short, the 372 is at a angle facing away so the bar looks really short



I was kinda joking about 16", but I would have never guessed it was a 24". The angle did make it look much shorter. I've used that line many times myself with the young ladies. But somewhat less convincingly


----------



## twochains

RandyMac said:


> how about a 12 footer with a 48"?



FINALLY!!! such as a 20" bar on a 3ft stump... Glad you said it RandyMAC! ...ok now I will grab my chokers and duck yer .404 :msp_sneaky:


----------



## bitzer

Keen said:


> Its a butt grapple, I'll have to save some coin and get a bypass. Nothing like picking up a hand full of pulp sticks that don't pinch tight and tumble out and you have to play pickup sticks. Its reassuring to hear that it boosted production, so i'll put it on the "must have list". It was about 4 years ago that I got set up with Alhborn. I had a little chainsaw shop then, they didn't ask me for a tax ID number then. I wasn't aware that you had to be dealer. So I'll consider myself lucky. I would use the phase " I would like to set up a little chainsaw shop and try your product ..............lol see if that gets you a account. Im in central Michigan, the forwarder came out of the UP in Wakefield from Deliches. There was a nice looking 132 in lady smith I was temped to look at, but got them talked down enough on this one. My brother tipped the tree over with the wedges, I assume they were in the same spot. The double stack in the back looks a little to deep, so they may have been moved. He's a wedge pounding SOB! I like the notch and flop method.



I bought a Valby 55" bypass. It was $4000. They priced out a lot better than the sure grips. A new sure grip was like 6-8 grand. I think I saw an add for a bypass for sale in the Logger's Shopper for like $1500 bucks. If you don't get that monthly newspaper, PM me and I'll give you the phone number to subscribe. Its free and its distribution is all of WI and the U.P. I believe. Most of the major equipment dealers post listings on there as well as individual want adds. I saw your machine either in the shopper or on Delichs website. 

Yeah there is nothing more frustrating than hand bunching all your pulp only to come back around to pick it up and it all drops out of the grapple. Then its pinch every little stick and try again. My guess is that grapple is a Prentice since it is red. Its also heavy as hell compared to my new one. A typical bunk full of pulp with the butt grapple was a 45-60 min skid. Sawlogs like 30 to 40 mins. All depending on skid distance and size of wood of course. With the bypass its like 30 min on the pulp and 15 to 20 min on sawlogs. I've got a single bunk roof mount 132 and I can get about 2.5 cords or 1300bf on er. My old butt grapple is cleaning up landings right now in northern Warshington. I hope its treatin its new owner well. I never hand bunch pulp anymore either. Screwed up my shoulder tryin to tip over and bunch red oak pulp. I could barely hold the saw for a week or too. Let the machine do the work. 

Also that wedge near the hinge business just puts extra pressure on the hinge which can cause it to break. If you can't get it to tip with a double stack in the back something else is wrong. Either the tree is not cut up right, not cut up all the way, or you bit off more than you could chew (your bro in that circumstance). The nice thing about a forwarder is It doesn't really matter if you cross your lay as long as you don't bury a bunch of logs with tops. Its just as easy to pick up either way. Swing em into the holes and be done with them!


----------



## 1270d

If you are going to be in the market for a bypass euro style bucket, take a good look at the cranab/valmet line. Considerably cheaper than hultdins and built just as good or better. Last one was a 1/4 cord and I think it was 3200 bucks. The 1/3 cord was 3800. I've never had the chance to see a val by like bitzer picked up. I'm sure they re decent too


----------



## Keen

Good enough on the bypass guys, I appreciate it. That and tire chains are on the list. Your correct it is a prentice grapple.. I agree bitz, hand bunching oak pulp sticks is a b####. If I can avoid it with a bypass it will be the best money I every spent. PM sent on the phone number.


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## treeslayer2003

View attachment 313974
View attachment 313975
View attachment 313976
View attachment 313977



here ya go boys, that load grossed 88,000 we ain't doin that no more.


----------



## treeslayer2003

View attachment 313982



the mill loader op said no more that long, cut um 52'. seems odd but they easyer to load and looks more safe without that overhang.


----------



## treeslayer2003

View attachment 313987
View attachment 313988
View attachment 313989
View attachment 313990


few more, I ain't cutting the big ones till I get the clark out there  yea, dad was there 30 year ago.


----------



## bustedup

cool pics bro


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## HuskStihl

Pretty awesome Handsome Mike. This makes me even sadder about your crap internet connection. I'd love to see a video of you turning that pine.


----------



## treeslayer2003

HuskStihl said:


> Pretty awesome Handsome Mike. This makes me even sadder about your crap internet connection. I'd love to see a video of you turning that pine.



I have no clue how to do that bro. mebbe i'll check into it when it gets cooler.


----------



## HuskStihl

If you own or get something that takes digital movies, pretty much all new phones for example, and make a video of you falling. I will drive to your house, show you how to upload them to youtube and put them on here


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## treeslayer2003

we'll see when it cools off. mebbe find a heavy leaning oak. that a long drive Jon.


----------



## bustedup

Mike videoing things usually the way things go wrong lol


----------



## treeslayer2003

bustedup said:


> Mike videoing things usually the way things go wrong lol



yup,lol


----------



## HuskStihl

Are you kidding?? Stuff goes great in all my videos:msp_unsure:


----------



## OlympicYJ

88,000 pounds on the truck right? Whats the lengths you haul typically?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## RVALUE

I'm surprised the drivers 'drove' on that rig with that much tail weight.


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## treeslayer2003

OlympicYJ said:


> 88,000 pounds on the truck right? Whats the lengths you haul typically?
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2



yes, legal weight here is 80. pine they really want um tree length. since their loader had trouble they told us 52'. this suits me because they were killing our little loader. and yea it way to much on the back axle but dad will take her if she rolls. you shoulda seen the what he'd do back in the day, them ol guys had um. I still don't know why they won't let me cut um back to 40 or so, it would make the top fit better on the truck.


----------



## twochains

treeslayer2003 said:


> View attachment 313987
> View attachment 313988
> View attachment 313989
> View attachment 313990
> 
> 
> few more, I ain't cutting the big ones till I get the clark out there  yea, dad was there 30 year ago.



Mike that's some damn nice timber ya cutting! Great looking lay also! :msp_thumbup: Pretty neat you are cutting where your "Pops" cut sometime back! Really neat actually! Thanks for the pics Mike! Looks great!


----------



## treeslayer2003

twochains said:


> Mike that's some damn nice timber ya cutting! Great looking lay also! :msp_thumbup: Pretty neat you are cutting where your "Pops" cut sometime back! Really neat actually! Thanks for the pics Mike! Looks great!



thanks Clint. I cut a lot of tracts dad cut, some of the LOs familys we managing they timber for a long time. I do get tracts he ain't cut tho.


----------



## twochains

I have cut tracts I have been on years ago but not many. Mostly only ever come back for the hardwood years later. When I used to cut ERC full time, I wouldn't leave much that was marketable...if any. Most people wanted it cut real heavy. I figure some of my first tracts probably have some good stuff on them by now maybe. IDK though...19 years isn't all that long for ERC to get big. I never did however cut coyote poles where I cut saw logs. I always cut coyote poles on other jobs hoping where I had cut the ERC saw logs...the smaller stuff would be there for me to get in the future.


----------



## 1270d

twochains said:


> I have cut tracts I have been on years ago but not many. Mostly only ever come back for the hardwood years later. When I used to cut ERC full time, I wouldn't leave much that was marketable...if any. Most people wanted it cut real heavy. I figure some of my first tracts probably have some good stuff on them by now maybe. IDK though...19 years isn't all that long for ERC to get big. I never did however cut coyote poles where I cut saw logs. I always cut coyote poles on other jobs hoping where I had cut the ERC saw logs...the smaller stuff would be there for me to get in the future.



What are coyote poles?


----------



## twochains

Coyote poles are ERC very specific sizing of 7 ft by 4" max on big end down to 2 1/2. Have to be very straight and limbs must be very small knots. 

Coyote poles were originally sent out West and fences were built out of them. They were stood up and wrapped all together continuously...no gaps. The fences were built around pastures to keep coyotes from predating sheep and goats.

The same poles are sold in Colorado and fences are built the same and used along roads to stop snow drift.

They have always brought good money...$1.00 a piece and the buyer gets $7.00 out West.


----------



## bitzer

Great pics TS! Nice lookin timber. 98,000 is what we can haul here. Everything I send is random length on a self loader truck and pup though. I've had guys haul my pulp that have been in the 115k range. I bet leavin em tree length makes pretty quick work of em.


----------



## OlympicYJ

Ah gotcha. Yea a 5 axle truck here is 80k if memory serves but you can get permitted up to101,500 with the right axles. Allot of guys are taking a 6 axle long logger and adding a short logger pup to be able to carry a better mixed load of long and short logs. Helps so they don't have to scramble for mule trains at the end of the job to haul all the shorties.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


----------



## 056 kid

twochains said:


> FINALLY!!! such as a 20" bar on a 3ft stump... Glad you said it RandyMAC! ...ok now I will grab my chokers and duck yer .404 :msp_sneaky:



A 48" bar on a big powerhead might be about all a man wants to pack around. A 32" will kill 3' trees way faster than a 20" and its not hard to pack.


----------



## twochains

056 kid said:


> A 48" bar on a big powerhead might be about all a man wants to pack around. A 32" will kill 3' trees way faster than a 20" and its not hard to pack.



Yeh, I was just fun'in. I am fixing to order my Stihl ES Light 32"...ordered my dual port cover today. I went to a shop that carries full skip on the roll, that is always a bonus. Thanks Kid!


----------



## mdavlee

You getting a .050" or .063"? You'll really like the way the light bar will make the saw balance.


----------



## twochains

IDK Mike...Glen suggested the .63, I would like to go that route but I would have to order ALL my loops....so IDK. Hey Mike, I pulled the de-comp button out today and put the plug in. Fixed the saw, must have been loosing some compression...seems to be running well, I cut a bunch of cookies earlier and seems nice.


----------



## mdavlee

I run .063" on bars over 24". It will carry more oil down the bar. It's a little bit stronger chain also. The saw shop should be able to order you loops rather easily. If not there's plenty of places that will get chains to you in 2 days or so.


----------



## roberte

twochains said:


> IDK Mike...Glen suggested the .63, I would like to go that route but I would have to order ALL my loops....so IDK. Hey Mike, I pulled the de-comp button out today and put the plug in. Fixed the saw, must have been loosing some compression...seems to be running well, I cut a bunch of cookies earlier and seems nice.



maybe you ought to get some .404 , I hear it also doubles as a tune up device if wrapped properly in newspaper


----------



## treeslayer2003

bitzer said:


> Great pics TS! Nice lookin timber. 98,000 is what we can haul here. Everything I send is random length on a self loader truck and pup though. I've had guys haul my pulp that have been in the 115k range. I bet leavin em tree length makes pretty quick work of em.



thanks Bitz, well if ya gotta cut pine let it be big ones. yes it is a bit faster, really we ain't bucked logs in several years. seems every one gone to treelength.


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## Rounder

View attachment 314214

View attachment 314215


####ed off on Friday and snapped a couple pics.

Hope you all had a good, safe week - Sam


----------



## HuskStihl

That's beautiful timber Sam. Those look like matching cuts, I've only seen those in pictures  (with coors)


----------



## mdavlee

Rounder said:


> View attachment 314214
> 
> View attachment 314215
> 
> 
> ####ed off on Friday and snapped a couple pics.
> 
> Hope you all had a good, safe week - Sam



Looks like some nice ones Sam:beer:


----------



## paccity

sam, that's the good kind of ###kin off.:msp_wink:


----------



## bitzer

Nice pics Sam. What bar length you runnin? 

Pac- theres a bad kind of ####in off?


----------



## Rounder

bitzer said:


> Nice pics Sam. What bar length you runnin?
> 
> Pac- theres a bad kind of ####in off?





I just run a 28" with an 8 tooth on the xpw. Makes for a pretty light, zippy setup in softer stuff.


----------



## bitzer

Rounder said:


> I just run a 28" with an 8 tooth on the xpw. Makes for a pretty light, zippy setup in softer stuff.



That's what I thought. I bet its pretty easy to toss around. Nice work as always man!


----------



## paccity

bitzer said:


> Nice pics Sam. What bar length you runnin?
> 
> Pac- theres a bad kind of ####in off?



nope. just some kinds are better than other's. sam's ranks at the top end.:msp_biggrin:


----------



## Rounder

bitzer said:


> That's what I thought. I bet its pretty easy to toss around. Nice work as always man!



It'll put a few on the ground for sure ; Hope all's well Bob.

-Sam


----------



## RandyMac

Rounder said:


> View attachment 314214
> 
> View attachment 314215
> 
> 
> ####ed off on Friday and snapped a couple pics.
> 
> Hope you all had a good, safe week - Sam



I see you finally figured it out.

:msp_biggrin:


----------



## tramp bushler

HuskStihl said:


> Bull####, you'd have to be some sort of OG falling legend to do that! Oh, nevermind....



How bout a 8+×11+' with a 42"


----------



## tramp bushler

Almost all of my fallin pics are a result of ###### off. 
I should have taken some a couple weeks ago. But. I don't have enough room on my spenders for a phone holster now that I pack my bar wrench on them. So its a choice of a fon holster or a snoose can holster. The fon looses.


----------



## RandyMac

I never ####ed off.


----------



## JakeG

tramp bushler said:


> Almost all of my fallin pics are a result of ###### off.
> I should have taken some a couple weeks ago. But. I don't have enough room on my spenders for a phone holster now that I pack my bar wrench on them. So its a choice of a fon holster or a snoose can holster. The fon looses.



Any time a phone comes out in the woods to take a picture, that person is ******* off. I've done it, and obviously so have most of us. If you're the peson IN the picture (like RandyMac), you're probably not ******* off TOO BAD.

Tramp, maybe Brian will send you a scrench holder for your saw :msp_thumbup:


----------



## twochains

tramp bushler said:


> How bout a 8+×11+' with a 42"



I bet you guys had alot of good times back then in that big timber! Awesome!


----------



## twochains

RandyMac said:


> I never ####ed off.




LMAO! Steep and Deep! AYE!


----------



## Rounder

I know for a fact that you were ####ing off Randy, what with that creamsickle and all....


----------



## Metals406

Rounder said:


> I know for a fact that you were ####ing off Randy, what with that creamsickle and all....



Sam, where the heck you at that you're in cedar? opcorn:


----------



## Rounder

Metals406 said:


> Sam, where the heck you at that you're in cedar? opcorn:



St. Joe River country, between Avery and St. Maries ID.


----------



## paccity

Rounder said:


> St. Joe River country, between Avery and St. Maries ID.



looks like some pretty quilt work there.


----------



## RVALUE

Rounder said:


> St. Joe River country, between Avery and St. Maries ID.



My old stomping grounds. I ran a boat aground in the headwaters of the River one Sunday. It was just like Deliverance. Barely made it out with my life.


----------



## tramp bushler

twochains said:


> I bet you guys had alot of good times back then in that big timber! Awesome!



Mostly just a lot of hard work. But that's OK. 
And it wasn't that long ago. That's a 3120 not an 071.


----------



## tramp bushler

JakeG said:


> Tramp, maybe Brian will send you a scrench holder for your saw :msp_thumbup:




No thanks. Where I pack my bar wrench is the perfect spot after 40 years of trying to figure it out I finally got it right. !!!!!


----------



## northmanlogging

Had to keep this thread going.

not much just a back leaner hemlock, but I got to play with jacks and this time the vid worked out.[video=youtube_share;HPOvqHaaKjg]http://youtu.be/HPOvqHaaKjg[/video]


----------



## twochains

Looks good NM! Damn...you make that timber look on the small side! LOL! :cool2: Nice work though!


----------



## Cfaller

Nice job! I'm no tree jacking expert but try and leave the jack handle up. This will prevent the jack handle from flipping up, if the tree sets back ( gust of wind). Which will prevent us from getting hit in places we don't want too.


----------



## bitzer

Nice work Northman! I usually get my seat and back cut in first, but looks like it worked out.

Some shots from my last job. Standing about 15 feet up marking my length on this one. About the only spot on the job where you could see any distance. Lots of maple re-gen under the big maple tops. There was about 10mbf laying out in there somewhere 






Using the whole back corner to pull this maple around. Yeah I pulled some fibers, but sometimes you gotta get a hole in the canopy goin.





Coos bay on a HARD leanin maple. Got 4 10s and a 12 out of this one. 





Close up stump shot of that coos. Yep some pull again, but it beats the #### out of boring it. It pulled out of the stump too, so it didn't get too far into the butt.





About 25mbf of maple in the shot and another 10mbf of ash to the right. I had more wood stacked around the corner to the left of the shot too. This job busheled up pretty quick. 





View attachment 315368

View attachment 315369

View attachment 315370

View attachment 315371

View attachment 315372


----------



## bitzer

First tree of the day on this particular day. This is what a lot of the timber looked like.






Pullin a really hard leanin maple away from the main trail. 4 12s in this one.





Jack seat in an ash. Was under the gun to get this last tree cut on Friday. Had the lowboy comin to move my machine and I had this one to get right by the landing. No time to screw around. The jack is a 30 ton stubby.





Lifted pretty well. Snugging the wedges with the axe, then pumpin the jack and so on. 





I put the face so far forward to keep pressure off of the hinge on this one. Also the jack is not quite square to the hinge. I changed my mind a little on where to put the tree after I had the seat in. 12" wedges (or were) for scale.







View attachment 315373

View attachment 315374

View attachment 315375

View attachment 315376

View attachment 315377


----------



## mdavlee

Looking good bitzer.


----------



## bitzer

Thank you sir!


----------



## mdavlee

Wish I was getting to make a few stumps this time of year instead of being inside a hot building welding.


----------



## twochains

Yeh bitzer...that looks good man!


----------



## madhatte

Bitz -- can you give us a sketch of how that hinge is mounted to the jack? I bet I'm not the only person interested.


----------



## RVALUE

bitzer said:


> First tree of the day on this particular day. This is what a lot of the timber looked like.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pullin a really hard leanin maple away from the main trail. 4 12s in this one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jack seat in an ash. Was under the gun to get this last tree cut on Friday. Had the lowboy comin to move my machine and I had this one to get right by the landing. No time to screw around. The jack is a 30 ton stubby.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lifted pretty well. Snugging the wedges with the axe, then pumpin the jack and so on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I put the face so far forward to keep pressure off of the hinge on this one. Also the jack is not quite square to the hinge. I changed my mind a little on where to put the tree after I had the seat in. 12" wedges (or were) for scale.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 315373
> 
> View attachment 315374
> 
> View attachment 315375
> 
> View attachment 315376
> 
> View attachment 315377



I welded 3/4 inch spike tips to my plates to stop kick out. Works perfect. They would look like the tip on an air blow gun. They really bite and when it kicks out it is really bad.


----------



## bitzer

Thanks Clint!

Madhatte-here ya go. 

I'm no metal worker, but I'm ok with a stick welder. Of course when I do it again this thing will be different. 





I snapped a pin on a big maple last Feb. and you can see how the load bent the up and down parts of the hinge. The pin I had in there did not have load rating that I could find, but it was what I had at the time and I needed something that day. The bolt I have in there now should shear at around 40,000 lbs which is about 20,000 lbs less than I would like. I will definitely go bigger or come up with a different hinge next time around. 





This thing has jacked 20-30 trees and you can see how the holes are already getting out of round. 





You can see the out of round here too. The extra cross members between the main hinges were added on the jobsite after I snapped that pin last Feb. I figured it would help stop the spreading. 






View attachment 315417

View attachment 315418

View attachment 315419

View attachment 315420


----------



## bitzer

RVALUE said:


> I welded 3/4 inch spike tips to my plates to stop kick out. Works perfect. They would look like the tip on an air blow gun. They really bite and when it kicks out it is really bad.



I've got some texturing on the top and bottom plate. I didn't want to go too nuts cause I figured the tree might take my jack for a ride! That and if you have the jack snugged up real tight, but you need to back it out of there for some reason it could be a real ##### to get it out. So you've had a jack kick out?


----------



## Gologit

Thanks Bob.


----------



## bitzer

mdavlee said:


> Wish I was getting to make a few stumps this time of year instead of being inside a hot building welding.



As said by Burgess Meredith in grumpy old men- "you can wish in one hand and crap in the other and see what gets filled first." :msp_biggrin:


----------



## mdavlee

bitzer said:


> As said by Burgess Meredith in grumpy old men- "you can wish in one hand and crap in the other and see what gets filled first." :msp_biggrin:



With my job it's almost feast or famine. There's always work it just might not be where I want to be. When the weather cools off some I want to be outside enjoying it.


----------



## bitzer

mdavlee said:


> With my job it's almost feast or famine. There's always work it just might not be where I want to be. When the weather cools off some I want to be outside enjoying it.



Yep, fall is my favorite time of year to be in the woods. Good smells. That chill in the air that gets yer bones moving. Good production time.


----------



## mdavlee

It was in the 40s yesterday morning when we went to work. I think Tuesday it was 91.


----------



## RVALUE

bitzer said:


> I've got some texturing on the top and bottom plate. I didn't want to go too nuts cause I figured the tree might take my jack for a ride! That and if you have the jack snugged up real tight, but you need to back it out of there for some reason it could be a real ##### to get it out. So you've had a jack kick out?



As the tree rises, the angle goes from square, to angled. (This can be adjusted with an angled top cut, but that's more difficult. )

My spikes are 100% tapered, so they don't seem to stick. I bent my jack when a 48 inch oak came backwards.

But my jack is powered hydraulic, so that would behave different, as opposed to a standard contained jack.

I have about 8 inches travel.


----------



## HuskStihl

northmanlogging said:


> Had to keep this thread going.
> 
> not much just a back leaner hemlock, but I got to play with jacks and this time the vid worked out.[video=youtube_share;HPOvqHaaKjg]http://youtu.be/HPOvqHaaKjg[/video]



That was really smooth and solid looking NM. I like and try to copy how you dog the near corner and ride it through. I would like to not fight the saw like you do. The jacking with wedge backup looked very smooth.



You boys want to have "the talk" with bitz about fiber pull and how to avoid it? I would, but I already gave him the talk about "where babies come from, and how to prevent that":jester:


----------



## bitzer

Mdavlee- Sounds like here. Two weeks ago it was 95 on a Tuesday. By Thursday night it was in the low 40s and Low 60s during the day. Last night we almost dipped into the 30s. No frost yet though. I bet it did up north though.


----------



## bitzer

RVALUE said:


> As the tree rises, the angle goes from square, to angled. (This can be adjusted with an angled top cut, but that's more difficult. )
> 
> My spikes are 100% tapered, so they don't seem to stick. I bent my jack when a 48 inch oak came backwards.
> 
> But my jack is powered hydraulic, so that would behave different, as opposed to a standard contained jack.
> 
> I have about 8 inches travel.



I see. That's why I put the pivot on mine. To move with the tree. I was always worried about a bottle jack spitting out. Theres a lot of wood to move in a 4 foot oak. When you starting getting up into the 4-5 inch range on the jack its time to start getting nervous. I mean I start getting wary when I get up over a double stack of wedges. Then you need to make your own wedge out of piece of wood or a block or something to snug in the back cut. Depending on the height of the tree, every inch of lift can move the top 5-10 feet in hardwoods. I've read that in conifers every inch will move the top over more than that.


----------



## RVALUE

Mine has an almost identical pivot as yours.


----------



## RVALUE

I rarely use mine anymore, because when they fail, they fail miserably. I try to pull them more often. But I am residential tree removing. Not logging. ( Smack.... Ouch....)


----------



## northmanlogging

HuskStihl said:


> That was really smooth and solid looking NM. I like and try to copy how you dog the near corner and ride it through. I would like to not fight the saw like you do. The jacking with wedge backup looked very smooth.
> 
> 
> 
> You boys want to have "the talk" with bitz about fiber pull and how to avoid it? I would, but I already gave him the talk about "where babies come from, and how to prevent that":jester:



Get yourself some of them big falling dogs for a start.

Stuff the bottom dog in just on top of your gun cut and use it to pivot the saw around until you have your aim figured out then use it to rotate the saw through the wood, From the vid you can see I don't always have the best aim for matching my cuts but its pretty easy to correct. If done correctly you should have enough grip on the dogs to bog down and stall the chain even on a big 90cc saw without pulling real hard. Seems like the up stroke on the humboldt takes more power then the gun cut? But I think it has more to do with applying more grunt and not realizing it.


----------



## treeslayer2003

Gologit said:


> Thanks Bob.



+1 on that. I jus may put together something like that, I see it needs to be really stout. wonder what the limit is or how much the hinge would stand? there is trees ya just ain't movein with wedges, I bet jacking has a limit too.


----------



## Metals406

mdavlee said:


> It was in the 40s yesterday morning when we went to work. I think Tuesday it was 91.



The last couple days of last week, I was in a scissor lift welding floor joists to red iron. Burnt about 20 pounds of Excalibur.

Another 3 hours worth tomorrow and I'll be done. It's real nice in the morning, and then the sun comes out and starts cooking on ya.

Luckily, we went from summer to late fall in a day . Highs are forecasted below average and lows will start dropping below freezing quick. . . The bow hunters will like that fer stabbing elk and deer.


----------



## Metals406

bitzer said:


> Thanks Clint!
> 
> Madhatte-here ya go.
> 
> I'm no metal worker, but I'm ok with a stick welder. Of course when I do it again this thing will be different.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I snapped a pin on a big maple last Feb. and you can see how the load bent the up and down parts of the hinge. The pin I had in there did not have load rating that I could find, but it was what I had at the time and I needed something that day. The bolt I have in there now should shear at around 40,000 lbs which is about 20,000 lbs less than I would like. I will definitely go bigger or come up with a different hinge next time around.
> 
> This thing has jacked 20-30 trees and you can see how the holes are already getting out of round.
> 
> You can see the out of round here too. The extra cross members between the main hinges were added on the jobsite after I snapped that pin last Feb. I figured it would help stop the spreading.



Bob, if you want to get better wear characteristics from your jack plate, you should fab it from a gooderer  alloy steel than mild (A36).

Use something like: Weldox, Harox, AR400, T-1, etc.

You won't experience the deformation you are now. :msp_scared:


----------



## Metals406

Meh, my subscriptions still aren't werking right.


----------



## mdavlee

Ar 400 or 500 plate would work good. Inconnel would also.


----------



## Metals406

mdavlee said:


> Ar 400 or 500 plate would work good. Inconnel would also.



And I bet they'd just give him the steel from the rem pile.


----------



## mdavlee

Metals406 said:


> And I bet they'd just give him the steel from the rem pile.



More than likely no more than you would need.

We've been running squirt guns on missile shields here. Burned about 1/2 33lb spool in 10 hours.


----------



## Metals406

mdavlee said:


> More than likely no more than you would need.
> 
> We've been running squirt guns on missile shields here. Burned about 1/2 33lb spool in 10 hours.



1/16" dual-shield? opcorn:


----------



## mdavlee

Metals406 said:


> 1/16" dual-shield? opcorn:



I wish it was. 045" s what they have. Making 8 1"-10" fillets with it in a day takes a good while. 1/16" would be faster.


----------



## northmanlogging

Or He could make the hinge out of thicker mild steel and use a fatter pin, the thicker steel would dissipate more of the pressure over a wider foot print. Think fat tires over mud. find some 1" schedule 80 steel pipe and pin that fits in it cut in to three peices and make your own hinge...


Acquiring T1 or even tool steel is difficult for most people, its not like the places that sell it advertise in the yellow pages, cutting it is even harder.

And as far as inconel... its ####ing expensive hard as #### even when anealed and really god's damned hard to find a supplier...(my second project at the new machine shop was holding +-.0005 on hardened inconel...YAY:msp_mad


----------



## RVALUE

A buddy of mine had a 600 amp .090 machine, took a big job to fire it up, but it would melt metal and fuse it together.... 

I run .045 44 #


----------



## mdavlee

northmanlogging said:


> Or He could make the hinge out of thicker mild steel and use a fatter pin, the thicker steel would dissipate more of the pressure over a wider foot print. Think fat tires over mud. find some 1" schedule 80 steel pipe and pin that fits in it cut in to three peices and make your own hinge...
> 
> 
> Acquiring T1 or even tool steel is difficult for most people, its not like the places that sell it advertise in the yellow pages, cutting it is even harder.
> 
> And as far as inconel... its ####ing expensive hard as #### even when anealed and really god's damned hard to find a supplier...(my second project at the new machine shop was holding +-.0005 on hardened inconel...YAY:msp_mad



Yeah it's some hard stuff. Pipe would be a good solution also for it. It could spread the weight out even farther.


----------



## bitzer

Thanks for the ideas boys! When I break this one (and I will) I will definitely beef up the next one. I think I had about 150 bucks into this one and maybe 4 hours or so of cutting and welding. I don't really have the set up or know how for serious metal work although I know for sure the next one will be tougher. That's usually how things go though. Workin on the mistakes. This damn thing got heavy in a hurry. Its pushin 60lbs. I know you can get away with thinner material when using harder steel though. My bypass grapple is 3/8" hardox. My old grapple was 5/8" mild. The new one looked like a toy and I was super worried about it although it does have a year warranty. Its held up pretty well so far and has tossed around some heavy sticks. I've never taken it easy on it. 

Hey does anyone have a good close up of a real tree jack? Like around the pivot part? I'm guessing its just a plate on top of a ram and the springs keep it in place?


----------



## JakeG

Pulled my phone out for the last one of today. Undercut didn't line up "exactly" but she went where I wanted her to. Should have these hardwoods wrapped up by Tuesday. 

The ole 394 doesn't look very big in this pic!


----------



## madhatte

bitzer said:


> Madhatte-here ya go.



Thank you! I am especially thankful for the shots of stress damage -- those are hard to imagine without pictures.


----------



## northmanlogging

*Cotton wood from a week or two ago.*

Yes the stump is high you didn't see the other side get over it.

[video=youtube_share;CrOlJscrsZ8]http://youtu.be/CrOlJscrsZ8[/video]


----------



## treeslayer2003

northmanlogging said:


> Yes the stump is high you didn't see the other side get over it.
> 
> [video=youtube_share;CrOlJscrsZ8]http://youtu.be/CrOlJscrsZ8[/video]



textbook, very good job there NM.


----------



## twochains

JakeG said:


> Pulled my phone out for the last one of today. Undercut didn't line up "exactly" but she went where I wanted her to. Should have these hardwoods wrapped up by Tuesday.
> 
> The ole 394 doesn't look very big in this pic!



Nice! Did it clean up good? What was behind that seam, that isn't fire scar is it? Looks like some good height! :msp_thumbup:


----------



## twochains

northmanlogging said:


> Yes the stump is high you didn't see the other side get over it.
> 
> [video=youtube_share;CrOlJscrsZ8]http://youtu.be/CrOlJscrsZ8[/video]



Looks good NM! :msp_thumbup:


----------



## bitzer

Nice work Northman! Other than the clips ons!


----------



## HuskStihl

northmanlogging said:


> Yes the stump is high you didn't see the other side get over it.
> 
> [video=youtube_share;CrOlJscrsZ8]http://youtu.be/CrOlJscrsZ8[/video]



That was really good. You'd think if a thousand monkeys could randomly type Shakespeare, I could fall just one like that


----------



## madhatte

northmanlogging said:


> Yes the stump is high you didn't see the other side get over it.



I dig the dive over the camera and the curt "Now, then!" after. It's almost like: 

[video=youtube_share;vJXU7EVXs2A]http://youtu.be/vJXU7EVXs2A[/video]


----------



## northmanlogging

bitzer said:


> Nice work Northman! Other than the clips ons!



Clip ons! twasn't no stinking clip ons...

I like the thinner welches spenders they hold better, and the wedge belt has gen-u-ine Mil. Spec Y back spenders that hook into the wedge belt. Which by the way is way better then just a belt.

Thanks guys, vids tend to make me nervous and I tend to screw something up, this time was the tripod made out of branches that went wrong...


----------



## madhatte

northmanlogging said:


> this time was the tripod made out of branches that went wrong...



I would argue "Went AWESOME"


----------



## JakeG

NM that looks good, real good. Which saw was that? 



twochains said:


> Nice! Did it clean up good? What was behind that seam, that isn't fire scar is it? Looks like some good height! :msp_thumbup:



She cleaned up alright. Got three 16 6's out of her. It was dead with heavy top lean to the right of the fall. I'm not sure on the fire scar but there aren't many of this size around here. 34" where I cut and probably 45-50" on the stump (depending on which way you measured).


----------



## northmanlogging

MS 461r sporting a 32" bar self modified to be light. Saw only has a muf mod, otherwise its stock.


----------



## hardpan

northmanlogging said:


> MS 461r sporting a 32" bar self modified to be light. Saw only has a muf mod, otherwise its stock.



Skip link or full comp? You make it look way too easy.


----------



## Trx250r180

HuskStihl said:


> That was really good. You'd think if a thousand monkeys could randomly type Shakespeare, I could fall just one like that



see ,you don't need to pack around that heavy saw you have ,like you think you need to :cool2:


----------



## mdavlee

Trx250r180 said:


> see ,you don't need to pack around that heavy saw you have ,like you think you need to :cool2:



Ported 70cc works great in hardwoods. Stock in the softwoods out west is fine.


----------



## roberte

Trx250r180 said:


> see ,you don't need to pack around that heavy saw you have ,like you think you need to :cool2:





mdavlee said:


> Ported 70cc works great in hardwoods. Stock in the softwoods out west is fine.



but I think husk _wants_ to pack that boat, errr, big saw around


----------



## Trx250r180

mdavlee said:


> Ported 70cc works great in hardwoods. Stock in the softwoods out west is fine.



so what do you think of a ported 70cc in softwoods ?:msp_wink:


----------



## roberte

Trx250r180 said:


> so what do you think of a ported 70cc in softwoods ?:msp_wink:



well its the best thing since sliced bread, packaged umpkin2:


----------



## mdavlee

Trx250r180 said:


> so what do you think of a ported 70cc in softwoods ?:msp_wink:



Well it works great. Our hardwoods a 70 cc with a 32" is a bit slow.


----------



## HuskStihl

Trx250r180 said:


> see ,you don't need to pack around that heavy saw you have ,like you think you need to :cool2:





mdavlee said:


> Ported 70cc works great in hardwoods. Stock in the softwoods out west is fine.





Trx250r180 said:


> so what do you think of a ported 70cc in softwoods ?:msp_wink:



#######. I wasn't talking about his cute little meterosexual saw:msp_biggrin:


----------



## mdavlee

Well he was using it in the video. That wasn't the 66.


----------



## roberte

HuskStihl said:


> #######. I wasn't talking about his cute little meterosexual saw:msp_biggrin:



oh mann...


----------



## twochains

Trx250r180 said:


> so what do you think of a ported 70cc in softwoods ?:msp_wink:



I think a ported 460 should cut through soft woods so fast they quiver when coming off the stump :msp_wink:...but yet you didn't ask me...mud


----------



## mdavlee

twochains said:


> I think a ported 460 should cut through soft woods so fast they quiver when coming off the stump :msp_wink:...but yet you didn't ask me...mud



Yeah it should. The 460 I did for tramp is probably real fast in softwoods.


----------



## Trx250r180

twochains said:


> I think a ported 460 should cut through soft woods so fast they quiver when coming off the stump :msp_wink:...but yet you didn't ask me...mud




they get the job done .............even in the rain ................mud :msp_wink:


----------



## twochains

I'm running a 7 pin sprocket on my 460...heck I think it cuts faster than the 660...actually I KNOW it does. But that's 20" bar on both. I bet the 660 will pull my 30" stronger than the 460 in oak.


----------



## roberte

twochains said:


> I'm running a 7 pin sprocket on my 460...heck I think it cuts faster than the 660...actually I KNOW it does. But that's 20" bar on both. I bet the 660 will pull my 30" stronger than the 460 in oak.



20 is too small on that big saw


----------



## Trx250r180

roberte said:


> 20 is too small on that big saw



20 is too small on any saw


----------



## roberte

Trx250r180 said:


> 20 is too small on any saw



that's not even a "limbing" saw in wash,.......

its a f:censored: toy


----------



## twochains

roberte said:


> that's not even a "limbing" saw in wash,.......
> 
> its a f:censored: toy




I'm not even going to argue. I don't live in Washington :msp_biggrin: What re ya gonna do with yer long bar ifn ya have to chase a Hydro Ax for 8 or 9 hours straight as as fast as you can cut...taking lunch break in one hand while yer filling up yer saw with the other hand... :censored:


----------



## madhatte

My opinion, which has changed over the years, is that 20" is an answer to a question nobody asked. It's too long to be handy in brush -- that's 16" territory. It's too short for real work -- that's gotta be at least as long as your legs so you don't have to bend over so much. A 28" touches the ground comfortably for me when I am standing. If I were taller I would need a longer bar to do the same. Bigger wood wants a longer bar, and some kinds of hazards do, too. I don't really have a use for a 20" in any of the cutting I do. Even if I were a big firewooder, 20" would mean extra bending. It's better to just learn how to keep your chain out of the dirt.


----------



## roberte

twochains said:


> I'm not even going to argue. I don't live in Washington :msp_biggrin: What re ya gonna do with yer long bar ifn ya have to chase a Hydro Ax for 8 or 9 hours straight as as fast as you can cut...taking lunch break in one hand while yer filling up yer saw with the other hand... :censored:



run forrest, run....


----------



## treeslayer2003

meh, I use a 20 on a 044 as a limbing n topping saw every day. timber felled here is almost allways propped up a bit and it works pretty well. now in big hardwood I go to a 460 with 24, I guess different timber calls for diff hardware.


----------



## northmanlogging

hardpan said:


> Skip link or full comp? You make it look way too easy.



Full skip I don't have a grinder or the patience to file full comp.



twochains said:


> I think a ported 460 should cut through soft woods so fast they quiver when coming off the stump :msp_wink:...but yet you didn't ask me...mud



They don't quiver they run screaming:msp_scared: until they get big then you get bigger meaner saws...



twochains said:


> I'm not even going to argue. I don't live in Washington :msp_biggrin: What re ya gonna do with yer long bar ifn ya have to chase a Hydro Ax for 8 or 9 hours straight as as fast as you can cut...taking lunch break in one hand while yer filling up yer saw with the other hand... :censored:



Sit down and get the camera out so you can get an action shot of one rolling down the hill:msp_biggrin:



madhatte said:


> My opinion, which has changed over the years, is that 20" is an answer to a question nobody asked. It's too long to be handy in brush -- that's 16" territory. It's too short for real work -- that's gotta be at least as long as your legs so you don't have to bend over so much. A 28" touches the ground comfortably for me when I am standing. If I were taller I would need a longer bar to do the same. Bigger wood wants a longer bar, and some kinds of hazards do, too. I don't really have a use for a 20" in any of the cutting I do. Even if I were a big firewooder, 20" would mean extra bending. It's better to just learn how to keep your chain out of the dirt.



My little skidder/truck saw sports a 20" but all it does is bump knots and the occasional stump on skidder duty, and every once in a while cuts a path to home in the winter.

I may not look it in the vids but I'm 6'0" in stockings, so 32" fits right, although that 42" on the 066 is pretty nice when limbing big assed trees... is a bit of a pain to keep out of the dirt at times.


----------



## tramp bushler

mdavlee said:


> Yeah it should. The 460 I did for tramp is probably real fast in softwoods.





Fast is a relative term. Since on a crew of pro fallers who r in their prime for me just getting the day in and keeping my job is paramount. I can't keep up with a juiced 394/395 any more. I never was strong enough to really bushel with a 3120 unless I was in constant big timber. Which I never was. . Too much understory mixed in. 
The 460 now that its juiced will make a tired old guy keep going and get the day in. But really a 90 cc size saw is just right for fallin limbin and buckin. Keep the chains perfect and it'll do all that most men can day in day out.


----------



## HuskStihl

mdavlee said:


> Well he was using it in the video. That wasn't the 66.



I know. Where is RandyMac when I need him. You boys are going to start running turbocharged 33cc saws pretty soon if he doesn't step in and put a stop to all this cute little saw nonsense:msp_biggrin:


----------



## HuskStihl

tramp bushler said:


> Fast is a relative term. Since on a crew of pro fallers who r in their prime for me just getting the day in and keeping my job is paramount. I can't keep up with a juiced 394/395 any more. I never was strong enough to really bushel with a 3120 unless I was in constant big timber. Which I never was. . Too much understory mixed in.
> The 460 now that its juiced will make a tired old guy keep going and get the day in. But really a 90 cc size saw is just right for fallin limbin and buckin. Keep the chains perfect and it'll do all that most men can day in day out.



I'm not sure if I could even lift a 3120. Glen, what is the weight/feel of the 460 compared to the 390? My neighbors 460 doesn't really feel that smaller than my 385. I want a 70cc saw, but handsome mike won't sell me a 10mm 044, and I've got enough orange saws.


----------



## JakeG

HuskStihl said:


> I know. *Where is RandyMac when I need him. * You boys are going to start running turbocharged 33cc saws pretty soon if he doesn't step in and put a stop to all this cute little saw nonsense:msp_biggrin:



Hopefully writing more logging related literature. A paragraph or two has more power than 404/choker


----------



## tramp bushler

Probably a pound less maybe a little more. It is about as small a saw as I want to run with a 36" bar which is why I hung on to it. If Husky was still cranking out 75 cc 372 s I would have sold it and got another one of them. But the 390 is real good and not too heavy. Plus it holds a lot of gas. I like that.


----------



## RandyMac

HuskStihl said:


> I know. Where is RandyMac when I need him. You boys are going to start running turbocharged 33cc saws pretty soon if he doesn't step in and put a stop to all this cute little saw nonsense:msp_biggrin:



Oh jeeze, they will be looking for pink bloomers next and start looking like Brad.

You shiftless bums get to work.


----------



## bitzer

Right on Glen! You beat me to it. 

I don't give a damn about what anyone says. If you want to make some money bushelin you've gotta run 90ccs and a long bar. That pretty much goes for any timber that has any size to it. 

The rest of you boys can keep yer 70cc saws. That just leaves more timber for me to kill...


----------



## northmanlogging

Ya know I thought the 461 was like 78cc or some odd number...

besides I have a 90cc saw, the 461 is hands down faster in 30"- wood. Hard wood is a rarity here, that cotton wood has the consistency of balsa when green, a little like pine when dry. I'm limited more by chain speed then raw power. So why drag the extra 3-4 pounds of saw around for an extra pony I rarely need?


----------



## HuskStihl

northmanlogging said:


> Ya know I thought the 461 was like 78cc or some odd number...
> 
> besides I have a 90cc saw, the 461 is hands down faster in 30"- wood. Hard wood is a rarity here, that cotton wood has the consistency of balsa when green, a little like pine when dry. I'm limited more by chain speed then raw power. So why drag the extra 3-4 pounds of saw around for an extra pony I rarely need?



Boy, that's just ass backwards thinkin! You need to be packing as many ponies as ur little frame can handle, and look for trees that need 'em!


NM that was totally in jest, please don't kill me!:msp_biggrin:


----------



## tramp bushler

northmanlogging said:


> Ya know I thought the 461 was like 78cc or some odd number...
> 
> besides I have a 90cc saw, the 461 is hands down faster in 30"- wood. Hard wood is a rarity here, that cotton wood has the consistency of balsa when green, a little like pine when dry. I'm limited more by chain speed then raw power. So why drag the extra 3-4 pounds of saw around for an extra pony I rarely need?



An 066/660 will go as fast as a 460/460 with an 8 tooth sprocket it will hold more rpm in the cut. Which means it will out cut it. The 660 weighs about 2 lbs more. . But, if your not all up highest production possible then the smaller saw is easier to pack around. And burn less gas. 
But. If a guy is just going to go to work and cut a couple loads a day then the 460/461/372/576 /440 will be a great saw. 
But like Bob and Sam ect. Where volume on the ground is what pays the bills then the 390 / 660/395 makes the most money. As long as a guy can keep up with them.


----------



## HuskStihl

RandyMac said:


> Oh jeeze, they will be looking for pink bloomers next and start looking like Brad.
> 
> You shiftless bums get to work.



Thanks Randy. All this "why would I need this amount of unadulterated power and torque, it might scare baby birds" crap was getting on my nerves:jester:


----------



## HuskStihl

tramp bushler said:


> An 066/660 will go as fast as a 460/460 with an 8 tooth sprocket it will hold more rpm in the cut. Which means it will out cut it. The 660 weighs about 2 lbs more. . But, if your not all up highest production possible then the smaller saw is easier to pack around. And burn less gas.
> But. If a guy is just going to go to work and cut a couple loads a day then the 460/461/372/576 /440 will be a great saw.
> But like Bob and Sam ect. Where volume on the ground is what pays the bills then the 390 / 660/395 makes the most money. As long as a guy can keep up with them.



That's how I bushel:jester: 

Sorry for being a ####, I just temporarily have Glen, Young Bob and Randy on my side. Like starting #### in a bar cause you brought ur friend Ray Lewis along as the designated driver:msp_biggrin:


----------



## tramp bushler

So, I looked it up. The 660 has the same size fuel tank as the 461 . Which all else considered . The 461 will run longer per tank than the 660 . 
One of the many things I prefer about the 390 over the 660 is it runs longer on a tank of fuel. . In fact from my keeping track my 394 s ran the same # of minutes as the 066 Mags. But they had more snort. . Snort Snort Snort.


----------



## tramp bushler

Oh and the 461 is 76.5 cc. Same as the 460.


----------



## OlympicYJ

Allot of the guys up in forks will run 460's with 28's cause of the smaller timber they're in now. Allot of em run 660's and 32's. I think some were even runin 28's on the 660's. One cutter was running 362's in commercial thinning on steep ground cause he didn't want the weight and again smaller wood. I'm developing the opinion we are logging it to small these days. Forget wood quality, nobody hardley cares about that but from the operational point of view I'm liking a log around the 25" to 30" butt range. Just overall improvement in volume moved with less diesel burnt and less time.


----------



## IcePick

bitzer said:


> Right on Glen! You beat me to it.
> 
> I don't give a damn about what anyone says. If you want to make some money bushelin you've gotta run 90ccs and a long bar. That pretty much goes for any timber that has any size to it.
> 
> The rest of you boys can keep yer 70cc saws. That just leaves more timber for me to kill...



Starting realizing this pretty quick. my 460 with the 28'' bar just doesnt seem to have the little extra needed cutting capacity to slice through the bigger ones. Like I said, should have gotten a 660. lots of premature ejac....errr... popping and twisting cutting through some of these bigger hard maples with the 460.


----------



## Trx250r180

for those that have not run a 460 and a 461 side by side ,there is a noticeable difference in how they run ,my 461 and 660 are ported ,with a 32 inch bar buried i cant really tell much difference in power in the 2 saws i have,if anything i think the 461 sounds angrier cutting , the 660 has a noticeable edge in tourque over my 460 ,and it's ported also ,from what i hear mre and more 461 saws are popping up in the woods around here


----------



## madhatte

OlympicYJ said:


> I'm developing the opinion we are logging it to small these days. Forget wood quality, nobody hardley cares about that but from the operational point of view I'm liking a log around the 25" to 30" butt range.



Funny story about that. A few years ago, we had a local guidance that had us marking only 18"-22" stems because we wanted the big ones to get bigger. Well, a seasonal crew finished marking a sale that should have come in at around 1.2MMBF but instead came in at only 300MBF. "WTF?" we asked... until we went out and looked at what was marked. Well, they had marked damn near every 18"-22" stem, but left all the bigger stuff. Turns out the stand was averaging 30" DBH. We re-marked it over the winter and got our projected volume... and quietly did away with that local guidance about 18"-22".

Also: I did an internship with Weyco in 1995 studying stem defects, particularly ramicorn branching and sinuousity. The results of the study were simple: you can grow 'em fast, sure, but wood quality will suffer. A 50-year rotation looks good on paper, but a 75- or 100-year rotation will produce far better ROI on a BF-per-acre basis, adjusted for both cull and mill waste. Sinuousity, especially, is a mill issue -- kiln-dry lumber with significant reaction wood and all you'll get is a twisted mess of semi-dimensional firewood.


----------



## OlympicYJ

Nate exactly what I would imagine. The DNR has some of the nicest timber. As far as private wood that I've seen I would say Green Diamond has pretty nice stuff in areas specifically the lower site areas. Now I haven't looked at a Port Blakely stand in a few years but I think they are behind some of the GD wood but again haven't looked at one for a long time.

I agree sinuosity can be grown out of the tree but for log quality I would like to see a slower growing stick because on your older wood you'll have nice strait grain but will still be cutting into that sinuosity. A slower growing seedling I feel is needed on high site ground and maybe the faster growing ones on the poorer sites to make better use of the inputs there. It's a double edged sword. Although on plantation wood the defect is allot more consistent whereas with natural it can be very variable.... If you are growing the smaller stuff CnS sized you have to have a modern mill to get the recovery. Technology has done some wonders on recovery. But I think were spending too much money out in the woods logging small timber. I think if landowners would go to longer rotation/bigger stick you would see profitability come up over all. Hey Good thing you replied this morning and I saw it. I'll text ya the contact info of that Prof that is doing the remote sensing stuff.

Wes


----------



## bitzer

On the 90cc vs. 70cc debate- when your saw is feeding your family and business you figure out pretty damn quick which one is making money. 



I cut a lot of MFL jobs and typically they shoot for a 15 year rotation in hardwoods. I've cut some that haven't been cut in a long time and some that were cut more recently. Typically there is 3 to 4 stages or sizes of timber growing in these stands to keep the crop consistent. I think these jobs are hit and miss as far as quality of timber is concerned. It seems like I am I more often than not cutting the garbage of the stand instead of the high production high quality timber they are shooting for. I keep thinking, maybe next time I'll get these? I'm cutting a swamp right now and there is plenty of nice big soft maple that I just keep walkin by.


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## treeslayer2003

Bitzer, sounds like yer doing a lot of stand improvement cutting. surely ya get to cut some that have already had that done years ago? I know it hard but just remember it is nessasary. when you get on that realy nice piece, someone set it up years ago for this harvest.


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## 1270d

We did a lot of cutting just like bitzer is doing. We also got to cut the stands again later. But then the forester our company had worked with for 25 plus years left and all those nice stands went to other crews.


----------



## mdavlee

IcePick said:


> Starting realizing this pretty quick. my 460 with the 28'' bar just doesnt seem to have the little extra needed cutting capacity to slice through the bigger ones. Like I said, should have gotten a 660. lots of premature ejac....errr... popping and twisting cutting through some of these bigger hard maples with the 460.



Port work can catch that up. Running a 28" a hot 70cc can pull it just as fast as a 90cc. A few of the 70cc saws will pull a 28 with an 8 pin.


----------



## madhatte

OlympicYJ said:


> I agree sinuosity can be grown out of the tree but for log quality I would like to see a slower growing stick because on your older wood you'll have nice strait grain but will still be cutting into that sinuosity.



Some of the nicest second-growth I've seen has been on sites where a thinning cycle was missed; suppression can make some very nice grain after the crowns recede and the knots heal over. Hard sell to a planner, though. Smells too much like neglect at first thought.


----------



## bitzer

treeslayer2003 said:


> Bitzer, sounds like yer doing a lot of stand improvement cutting. surely ya get to cut some that have already had that done years ago? I know it hard but just remember it is nessasary. when you get on that realy nice piece, someone set it up years ago for this harvest.



Yeah I know. I have cut some decent stands it just gets old sometimes when your cutting the junk more often. That and going from a big timber, log only job to a small timber, pulp job is quite a shock to the system.


----------



## bitzer

1270d said:


> We did a lot of cutting just like bitzer is doing. We also got to cut the stands again later. But then the forester our company had worked with for 25 plus years left and all those nice stands went to other crews.



That's kind of what I'm worried about, someone else cutting my old jobs. At least my forester is a younger guy and he is local. There are very few if any bids on the jobs he buys. There just aren't a lot of mills looking at em or they don't have loggers in the area to cut them. I think there are less and less hand cutters in this state every year. There is still plenty of big timber to be had though.


----------



## twochains

bitzer said:


> That's kind of what I'm worried about, someone else cutting my old jobs. At least my forester is a younger guy and he is local. There are very few if any bids on the jobs he buys. There just aren't a lot of mills looking at em or they don't have loggers in the area to cut them. I think there are less and less hand cutters in this state every year. There is still plenty of big timber to be had though.



That's the way it is here with bids also. My boss buys timber for (4) other private crews, most of his buys have little to no bids at all...esp. FS jobs.


----------



## bitzer

twochains said:


> That's the way it is here with bids also. My boss buys timber for (4) other private crews, most of his buys have little to no bids at all...esp. FS jobs.



Well at least it keeps wood in front of us everyday!


----------



## HuskStihl

bitzer said:


> On the 90cc vs. 70cc debate- when your saw is feeding your family and business you figure out pretty damn quick which one is making money.




I play with saws more than work, and I generally advise people to run what they like, but one thing I have noticed about bigger saws:
Of course, I have way to much raw machismo to own a 70cc saw, but there's prolly almost a 2hp difference between the stock 385 and ported 394. I agree with the "smaller" men that with a sharp chain and the 28" there's not much difference in pine (I think that will change with the 8pin I'm putting on the 394 as soon as it breaks in some more). However as soon as that "fresh chain happy feeling" fades after an hour or so, the 394 doesn't lose nearly as much speed as the 385. I realize this prolly applies to amateurs more as you guys sharpen on the job. I bring both saws with me sharp and grab the second one when the first one gets dull. My role in this "debate" in both instigatorial and provocatorial roles is officially at an end


----------



## hammerlogging

HuskStihl said:


> I play with saws more than work, and I generally advise people to run what they like, but one thing I have noticed about bigger saws:
> Of course, I have way to much raw machismo to own a 70cc saw, but there's prolly almost a 2hp difference between the stock 385 and ported 394. I agree with the "smaller" men that with a sharp chain and the 28" there's not much difference in pine (I think that will change with the 8pin I'm putting on the 394 as soon as it breaks in some more). However as soon as that "fresh chain happy feeling" fades after an hour or so, the 394 doesn't lose nearly as much speed as the 385. I realize this prolly applies to amateurs more as you guys sharpen on the job. I bring both saws with me sharp and grab the second one when the first one gets dull. My role in this "debate" in both instigatorial and provocatorial roles is officially at an end



Its a fair concept. I've always considered that a 460 makes a faller higher skilled, but once you take that skill set and put it on a 660, then the faller will rip that much harder. I'm curious about that earler 461 comment though, and will keep listening.


----------



## northmanlogging

Man I wish I could get a forester on my side... All the local outfits either work for the big timber companies the mills or private consults... 

Oh yeah and none of them return phone calls...

I have to admit I am kinda on the outside trying to break in. No contacts to speak of and no name to be recognized by. Thats ok I got hard knuckles and a harder head. Every year I get a little busier...

I did contact an outfit looking for contract loggers a few weeks ago, we'll see what happens.


----------



## treeslayer2003

1270d said:


> We did a lot of cutting just like bitzer is doing. We also got to cut the stands again later. But then the forester our company had worked with for 25 plus years left and all those nice stands went to other crews.


that sucs d, I hate favertism, it goes on here to an extent.


bitzer said:


> Yeah I know. I have cut some decent stands it just gets old sometimes when your cutting the junk more often. That and going from a big timber, log only job to a small timber, pulp job is quite a shock to the system.


yes it is. I been spoiled this year, I know i'm gonna havta cut little wood again someday.


hammerlogging said:


> Its a fair concept. I've always considered that a 460 makes a faller higher skilled, but once you take that skill set and put it on a 660, then the faller will rip that much harder. I'm curious about that earler 461 comment though, and will keep listening.



I have 460s 660s and a 461. the 461 is in between the 460 and 660. it is a very good saw, reminds me of a 064.


----------



## twochains

Just a video I shot this morning falling some oak I found down in a draw. I had to get the first tree on the ground before I did much else so I put it on the video also. :msp_smile: 

twochains vid...opcorn:

FILE0005 - YouTube


----------



## Trx250r180

where"s the Mud ?


----------



## twochains

Trx250r180 said:


> where"s the Mud ?



We ain't got no stinkin' MUD! (nice grammar right there )


----------



## twochains

Fell this one 1/4 up hill and had a narrow gap to fall the tree into w/o jacking up a bunch of young timber. This is the vid where I busted my ass vacating the stump! LOL! opcorn:


FILE0007 - YouTube


----------



## HuskStihl

Nice looking work Clint. Fast but unhurried


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## HuskStihl

*Disable javascripts in google chrome through the advanced settings "content" log in*

Log in using the "reply with quote page"


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## HuskStihl

*Misjudged the lean*

Belly lean back, top lean forward, most of the top gone from a hurricane. Thought it would go forwards but had to convince it the hard way

My Edited Video - YouTube


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## tramp bushler

Looks good Jon. In that you hit your lay. . . As a general rule, conifers go toward their belly. 

Do you know what you did wrong. Aside from no riggin pants and spenders?? Or chaps? Or waiting to flip the screen down on your hard hat. ?? . Chain seems to be cutting OK.


----------



## tramp bushler

twochains said:


> Fell this one 1/4 up hill and had a narrow gap to fall the tree into w/o jacking up a bunch of young timber. This is the vid where I busted my ass vacating the stump! LOL! opcorn:
> 
> 
> FILE0007 - YouTube




Looks good Clint. ! Nice new bar.


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## tramp bushler

First time I've been able to get on here in days. Kept getting redirected to link bucks.


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## HuskStihl

tramp bushler said:


> Looks good Jon. In that you hit your lay. . . As a general rule, conifers go toward their belly.
> 
> Do you know what you did wrong. Aside from no riggin pants and spenders?? Or chaps? Or waiting to flip the screen down on your hard hat. ?? . Chain seems to be cutting OK.



What I did wrong? Hmmm prolly need to categorize..

Saw technique: some hitchhiking, chain too loose, can't match cuts, but have figured out its much easier to take too little and hit the far corner on a second, cut if needed, than overshooting and boring/chunking out the face. Did the same thing on the back cut, but realized I had ####ed it up as soon as I got thru the bark so hopefully no harm done (I'm gonna install a level on my saw somewhere

Falling technique: I'm happy with how the face turned out, but I misread the lean. I made the backcut way too high, which turned out to be lucky as I figured the extra hinge wood may have helped me not break the hinge and lose it backwards with the bashing.

Preparation: took the rakers down too low, very grabby. Only had 2 wedges, cause it was leaning forward . I was gonna palm one in to help me see movement, but wound up having the tree finally go with the last hit on the last wedge before it disappeared. Glad I took off the bark or I'd have been SOL

I did spend a lot of time looking up, especially in the back cut.

Appreciate it Glen


----------



## JakeG

twochains said:


> Fell this one 1/4 up hill and had a narrow gap to fall the tree into w/o jacking up a bunch of young timber. This is the vid where I busted my ass vacating the stump! LOL! opcorn:
> 
> 
> FILE0007 - YouTube



Clint, despite that slip being incredibly dangerous.. I'm laughing with you lol. I feel bad cause that could have ended badly, but you laughed first!


----------



## JakeG

Jon, you looked more comfortable in that video compared to your others.. and I'm not talking about your attire cause that hasn't changed one bit lol! The chain tension scared me a few times, no overcuts on the face... it went pretty well overall. This forum seems to be helping you as it does me.


----------



## HuskStihl

JakeG said:


> Jon, you looked more comfortable in that video compared to your others.. and I'm not talking about your attire cause that hasn't changed one bit lol! The chain tension scared me a few times, no overcuts on the face... it went pretty well overall. This forum seems to be helping you as it does me.



Thanks Jake. The 394 with the 42" is a chain tension PITA. If I ran that more than a few times a year I'd get Stihl chain. People ##### about inboard/outboard clutches, that chain tensioner sux


----------



## northmanlogging

Looked good husk, that saw looked bigger than you timber wtf lol omg yolo ikr... and other stuff I never use...


----------



## HuskStihl

northmanlogging said:


> Looked good husk, that saw looked bigger than you timber wtf lol omg yolo ikr... and other stuff I never use...



It is just so rare that I am not running at top speed and screaming when a tree starts falling. I couldn't help a little "timber, Northman". I put on the 42 cause I misremembered the tree being bigger than it was. The saw, full, with the 42 is probably over 30lbs. I go about 175 (with the socks tucked in) so not an insignificant percantage of my weight, and there is absolutely no way I could "bushel" with that setup, but I'm still gonna call allay'all pussies for carrying 70cc saws


----------



## JakeG

HuskStihl said:


> It is just so rare that I am not running at top speed and screaming when a tree starts falling. I couldn't help a little "timber, Northman". I put on the 42 cause I misremembered the tree being bigger than it was. The saw, full, with the 42 is probably over 30lbs. I go about 175 (with the socks tucked in) so not an insignificant percantage of my weight, and there is absolutely no way I could "bushel" with that setup, but I'm still gonna call allay'all pussies for carrying 70cc saws



Lmao Jon...

Honestly you handled the saw like it was a 70cc. Guess that says something for the shape you're in... Must be nice being free, white and 21!


----------



## northmanlogging

HuskStihl said:


> It is just so rare that I am not running at top speed and screaming when a tree starts falling. I couldn't help a little "timber, Northman". I put on the 42 cause I misremembered the tree being bigger than it was. The saw, full, with the 42 is probably over 30lbs. I go about 175 (with the socks tucked in) so not an insignificant percantage of my weight, and there is absolutely no way I could "bushel" with that setup, but I'm still gonna call allay'all pussies for carrying 70cc saws



It was a husky so it has to be bigger to make up for the total crappiness of the saw in general ; ) 

I think its funny if you look at my vid with the 066 and the 42 it looks like I'm just packing a 044... my usual saw looks like your limbing saws... and yes I'm saying I'm fat...


----------



## HuskStihl

JakeG said:


> Lmao Jon...
> 
> Honestly you handled the saw like it was a 70cc. Guess that says something for the shape you're in... Must be nice being free, white and 21!



Who tha #### said I'm white????


----------



## RVALUE

JakeG said:


> Jon, you looked more comfortable in that video compared to your others.. and I'm not talking about your attire cause that hasn't changed one bit lol! The chain tension scared me a few times, no overcuts on the face... it went pretty well overall. This forum seems to be helping you as it does me.



Speaking of attire, what is the reasoning on the socks / pants layout? 

I couldn't stand to have chips in my shoes......


----------



## 1270d

I think he said before it was to keep the ants out


----------



## JakeG

HuskStihl said:


> Who tha #### said I'm white????



I did lol. The word "white" was the one and only word of my sentence that was actually true . Free and 21 do not apply to you nor myself!  If you're not white then you're light complected to the extent that one would assume you are Caucasian. So, what the heck are you?

About the socks... I don't have anything against em. But as mentioned, there's no way I'd let chips into my shoes.


----------



## HuskStihl

RVALUE said:


> Speaking of attire, what is the reasoning on the socks / pants layout?
> 
> I couldn't stand to have chips in my shoes......



That's how we did it in the 70's, only with longer socks. The boys are right, the fire ants are royal #######s right now, and about 50 of em will climb up you pant leg, then somehow all start biting at once. They also like making huge mounds at the base of big trees. In the winter I look (very) slightly more normal, but still can't match cuts worth a damn


----------



## HuskStihl

JakeG said:


> I did lol. The word "white" was the one and only word of my sentence that was actually true . Free and 21 do not apply to you nor myself!  If you're not white then you're light complected to the extent that one would assume you are Caucasian. So, what the heck are you?
> 
> About the socks... I don't have anything against em. But as mentioned, there's no way I'd let chips into my shoes.



I have lived my whole life with the stigma and embarrassment of being very, very white

I have the upper body strength of a 10 year old girl, so that big saw/long bar combo is a challenge. I am looking at one of the 36" Oregon light weight bars, but misread and pinch them frequently. Could be a pricey mistake


----------



## Gologit

HuskStihl said:


> I have lived my whole life with the stigma and embarrassment of being very, very white
> 
> I have the upper body strength of a 10 year old girl, so that big saw/long bar combo is a challenge. I am looking at one of the 36" Oregon light weight bars, but misread and pinch them frequently. Could be a pricey mistake



Don't waste your time with the 36" Oregon LW bars. I have a small pile of them in a dark and dusty corner of my shop. They don't respond well to anything but the gentlest of handling and I tend to get a little rough sometimes. The shorter ones might be sturdy enough to take a little abuse but the 36" is too flimsy if you're ham-handed like I am. 

Try the Stihl LW bars. I bought one slightly used from Mdavlee and since then I've bought another from my local saw shop for my backup saw. The one Mike sold me has quite a bit of time on it now and other than losing a little paint it's doing fine. They're more forgiving than the equivalent length Oregon bar.


----------



## roberte

Gologit said:


> Don't waste your time with the 36" Oregon LW bars. I have a small pile of them in a dark and dusty corner of my shop. They don't respond well to anything but the gentlest of handling and I tend to get a little rough sometimes. The shorter ones might be sturdy enough to take a little abuse but the 36" is too flimsy if you're ham-handed like I am.
> 
> Try the Stihl LW bars. I bought one slightly used from Mdavlee and since then I've bought another from my local saw shop for my backup saw. The one Mike sold me has quite a bit of time on it now and other than losing a little paint it's doing fine. They're more forgiving than the equivalent length Oregon bar.




You know telling him don't do it, is the automatic green light to do it :yoyo:


----------



## Gologit

roberte said:


> You know telling him don't do it, is the automatic green light to do it :yoyo:



I know. But if he gets one and complains about it after he pretzels it I think a certain amount of "I told ya' so, dummy" will be in order. Maybe _more_ than a certain amount. Maybe a whole lot.

And then, the next time he asks our advice and ignores it and the inevitable disaster ensues we'll have our responses better scripted and more easily expressed.


----------



## roberte

Gologit said:


> I know. But if he gets one and complains about it after he pretzels it I think a certain amount of "*I told ya' so, dummy*" will be in order. Maybe _more_ than a certain amount. Maybe a whole lot.
> 
> And then, the next time he asks our advice and ignores it and the inevitable disaster ensues we'll have our responses better scripted and more easily expressed.



I like that.

theres a reason I use the regular weight bars, being a little what did call it "ham handed"


----------



## twochains

Husk, :hmm3grin2orange: yer pants tucked into yer socks...OMG :hmm3grin2orange: Always know it's you and not a counterfeit Husk. I can't believe no one has burnt you on that double back cut...For me, most everything I have learned is from making a mistake and getting through it, I just wanted to let you know that wedging with a kerf 2 inches above the wedge is going to take away your lift and can actually cause the tree to want to set back, if it is already thinking about it. I'm not getting on to ya, I just know for a fact that secondary cut could have caused ALOT more problems than it did for ya...actually I figure that extra cut is what screwed you on pounding wedges. 

Other than that...and you refusing to wear chaps...Ya did a good job Husk! Glad you're a buddy mine! :msp_thumbsup:


----------



## mdavlee

Get you a stihl light bar instead of the Oregon. It's a stiffer made bar and will take some more abuse.


----------



## KiwiBro

Tsumura light and tough bars are not too shabby, gents.
http://www.thechainsawstore.com/


----------



## HuskStihl

roberte said:


> You know telling him don't do it, is the automatic green light to do it :yoyo:



TruDat, TruDat


----------



## HuskStihl

twochains said:


> Husk, :hmm3grin2orange: yer pants tucked into yer socks...OMG :hmm3grin2orange: Always know it's you and not a counterfeit Husk. I can't believe no one has burnt you on that double back cut...For me, most everything I have learned is from making a mistake and getting through it, I just wanted to let you know that wedging with a kerf 2 inches above the wedge is going to take away your lift and can actually cause the tree to want to set back, if it is already thinking about it. I'm not getting on to ya, I just know for a fact that secondary cut could have caused ALOT more problems than it did for ya...actually I figure that extra cut is what screwed you on pounding wedges.
> 
> Other than that...and you refusing to wear chaps...Ya did a good job Husk! Glad you're a buddy mine! :msp_thumbsup:




Thanks TC, I'm pretty sure the boys have given up on trying to help. Not every Helen Keller finds an Anne Sullivan. My back cuts are tramps fault. He said "any idiot can throw in a back cut", and you know how I like to prove folks wrong. That one wasn't as bad as it looked as I now suspect I'm ####ing it up immediately upon starting, and stopped to check as soon as I had gotten through the bark.


----------



## HuskStihl

Gologit said:


> Don't waste your time with the 36" Oregon LW bars. I have a small pile of them in a dark and dusty corner of my shop. They don't respond well to anything but the gentlest of handling and I tend to get a little rough sometimes. The shorter ones might be sturdy enough to take a little abuse but the 36" is too flimsy if you're ham-handed like I am.
> 
> Try the Stihl LW bars. I bought one slightly used from Mdavlee and since then I've bought another from my local saw shop for my backup saw. The one Mike sold me has quite a bit of time on it now and other than losing a little paint it's doing fine. They're more forgiving than the equivalent length Oregon bar.



I had just assumed a Stihl bar wouldn't fit my 394. Now as u'r retiring, sending me u'r Jasha 660 would be much appreciated


----------



## Gologit

HuskStihl said:


> I had just assumed a Stihl bar wouldn't fit my 394. Now as u'r retiring, sending me u'r Jasha 660 would be much appreciated



Nope. I already have somebody in mind for that saw. Besides, it's a west coast saw and I think it would be unhappy without mountains and the ocean around somewhere.


----------



## mdavlee

An adapter from homelite410 and a little grinding on the slot to make the same length chains fit and you'll be in business. 

Bob if those bars aren't completely trashed I might try to revive them if there's hope to get one or two back straight.


----------



## Gologit

HuskStihl said:


> I had just assumed a Stihl bar wouldn't fit my 394. Now as u'r retiring, sending me u'r Jasha 660 would be much appreciated



Apparently the EDIT function isn't working. I forgot that you're running a Husky so disregard my Stihl bar advice. Or, go ahead and get one so you'll be ready when you step up to a real saw. Not knocking Husky...they're a fine saw....if you don't know any better.

As far as that Slingr' 660 goes...well, let's just say that it's not good to give a kid a Corvette when all he's ever driven is a YUgo.


----------



## Gologit

Gologit said:


> Apparently the EDIT function isn't working. I forgot that you're running a Husky so disregard my Stihl bar advice. Or, go ahead and get one so you'll be ready when you step up to a real saw. Not knocking Husky...they're a fine saw....if you don't know any better.
> 
> As far as that Slingr' 660 goes...well, let's just say that it's not good to give a kid a Corvette when all he's ever driven is a YUgo.



Now, all that being said, I've got to get packed and get on the road. The 660 will be eating Redwood this time tomorrow


----------



## Gologit

mdavlee said:


> An adapter from homelite410 and a little grinding on the slot to make the same length chains fit and you'll be in business.
> 
> Bob if those bars aren't completely trashed I might try to revive them if there's hope to get one or two back straight.



Thanks for the offer Mike, I appreciate it, but those bars are going to the local high school metal shop class. There's a couple of us that have been collecting bars and the local saw shops are throwing in on it too. If the kids can get the kinks out we have first right to buy some back from them and they'll auction the rest. I didn't buy any last year but I saw a couple of 36s that they did and for ten bucks they were well worth the price.


----------



## mdavlee

Gologit said:


> Thanks for the offer Mike, I appreciate it, but those bars are going to the local high school metal shop class. There's a couple of us that have been collecting bars and the local saw shops are throwing in on it too. If the kids can get the kinks out we have first right to buy some back from them and they'll auction the rest. I didn't buy any last year but I saw a couple of 36s that they did and for ten bucks they were well worth the price.



Well that's cool.


----------



## HuskStihl

Gologit said:


> Apparently the EDIT function isn't working. I forgot that you're running a Husky so disregard my Stihl bar advice. Or, go ahead and get one so you'll be ready when you step up to a real saw. Not knocking Husky...they're a fine saw....if you don't know any better.
> 
> As far as that Slingr' 660 goes...well, let's just say that it's not good to give a kid a Corvette when all he's ever driven is a YUgo.



I can't "like" anything right now, but I have enjoyed these posts.


----------



## Steve NW WI

HuskStihl said:


> I can't "like" anything right now, but I have enjoyed these posts.



You guys gotta upgrade to a McCulloch-grade Browser/Addon combo.

Learn more here: http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw-stickies/71126-1460.htm#post4535081

Trust me, you'll never go back to IE.


----------



## Eccentric

Gologit said:


> Nope. I already have somebody in mind for that saw. Besides, it's a west coast saw and I think it would be unhappy without mountains and the ocean around somewhere.



Bob that's a damn good running saw........................................for a creamsicle.

I think your plan's a good one. He'll appreciate it for sure.:msp_thumbup:


----------



## Eccentric

Gologit said:


> Thanks for the offer Mike, I appreciate it, but those bars are going to the local high school metal shop class. There's a couple of us that have been collecting bars and the local saw shops are throwing in on it too. If the kids can get the kinks out we have first right to buy some back from them and they'll auction the rest. I didn't buy any last year but I saw a couple of 36s that they did and for ten bucks they were well worth the price.



Bob please let me know when those kids have the refurbished bars up for sale. I'd sure be interested in a few when the time comes.


----------



## twochains

Gologit said:


> Nope. I already have somebody in mind for that saw. Besides, it's a west coast saw and I think it would be unhappy without mountains and the ocean around somewhere.



Hmmm...not a hard guess. Does his log in name start with an "R" and end with a "r" and is (7) letters long? Good decision Gologit, at least it will go to "Pro" hands.


----------



## Gologit

twochains said:


> Hmmm...not a hard guess. Does his log in name start with an "R" and end with a "r" and is (7) letters long? Good decision Gologit, at least it will go to "Pro" hands.



Nope. The person the saw is going to isn't even a member here although he has a relative who is. And who the heck are you talking about...I can't puzzle it out.


----------



## paccity

Arrrrrrrr?


----------



## bitzer

Rounder

Bob- what does redwood smell like?


----------



## Eccentric

bitzer said:


> Rounder
> 
> *Bob- what does redwood smell like?*



Home. That's my guess.

The future owner of Bob's Slinger'ized 660 is a few years younger than Rounder.


----------



## treeslayer2003

Gologit said:


> Nope. I already have somebody in mind for that saw. Besides, it's a west coast saw and I think it would be unhappy without mountains and the ocean around somewhere.



there is two oceans ya know, just sayin. good on ya for helpin a guy out, whoever he is.


----------



## Gologit

bitzer said:


> Rounder
> 
> Bob- what does redwood smell like?



Hmmmm...that's a good question. I never really thought about it before and I'm not sure how to describe it. Let me think about it and for now I'll take the easy way out and say it smells like...Redwood.


----------



## Gologit

Eccentric said:


> Home. That's my guess.
> 
> The future owner of Bob's Slinger'ized 660 is a few years younger than Rounder.



Yup, and since he doesn't know he's getting it yet that's all we're going to say.


----------



## bitzer

Gologit said:


> Hmmmm...that's a good question. I never really thought about it before and I'm not sure how to describe it. Let me think about it and for now I'll take the easy way out and say it smells like...Redwood.



Victory? Different woods give me different memories. Yep that sounds dumb. True though. My wife loves it when I've been cuttin red oak in the rain all day. She says it smell like rotten something. 

Does redwood smell like cedar? Not like pine or spruce I'm guessing.


----------



## Trx250r180

don't some of those redwoods shoot water streams out when cutting them ?


----------



## Metals406

I know Elm smells like cow scrap when ya cut it (and when it's stacked). I bet Oak ain't too far off.

Sent from my SCH-S738C using Trained Beavers


----------



## Gologit

bitzer said:


> Victory? Different woods give me different memories. Yep that sounds dumb. True though. My wife loves it when I've been cuttin red oak in the rain all day. She says it smell like rotten something.
> 
> Does redwood smell like cedar? Not like pine or spruce I'm guessing.



Nope, not like cedar. Not pine or spruce either. And not like fir. Next time I'm over on the coast (I just got home from there today) I'll whittle you off a few chunks and mail them to you. You can decide what it smells like. 

This isn't doing me any good, ya know. Now I'm wracking my brain, what there is of it, trying to figure out how to describe the smell of Redwood. You're asking a guy with six cylinder equipment to try an eight cylinder job. Isn't this elder abuse?

And I understand about different wood smells triggering different memories. The smell of Bay trees is one of my earliest childhood memories. My Grandfather's ranch had hundreds of them. RandyMac knows the part of the country I'm talking about. In the heat of a summer day that smell laid so heavy in the air that you felt like it was coating your skin and clothes. You could almost see that smell.

But Redwood? Dunno. If I could really write I'd say that I keep getting the smell of it, and it does have a unique smell, mixed in with sweat, and snoose, and saw mix, and boot grease, and diesel exhaust, and the way the inside of your black metal lunch pail smelled after sitting out in the sun all morning. Redwood smells like the grease on a new bull line, and cigarette smoke, and moss, and ferns, and fresh turned dirt on a skid road, and the inside of a crummy, and that particular smell of big gear drive Mac or Homelite when you finally finish a long buck and shut it off to refuel. That's about as close as I can come to describing it.


----------



## Eccentric

Metals406 said:


> I know Elm smells like cow scrap when ya cut it (and when it's stacked). I bet Oak ain't too far off.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-S738C using Trained Beavers



Elm stinks when cut (including the asian varieties, such as what we took out of my folk's back yard a number of years ago). The tree we took out and bucked up smelled like dog poop. The smell seemed to left the wood after it was dried.

Oak has a distinctive smell when cut and stacked..........................reminds me of tree moss and Elmer's glue. 

Douglas Fir smells fantastic when cut (at least to my nose). Always reminds me of Christmas (because my dad always put up Doug Fir trees for Christmas), and also reminds me of a sawmill (and lumber yards/constructon sites).

Eucalyptus *stinks*, even when standing. Stands of Euc (often put up as windbreaks here near the coast) smell like cat piss to my nose.

Madrone doesn't have much of a smell (at least for me).

California Bay Laurel (Often called 'Bay' or 'Pepperwood' here) smells great when cut (and standing). Very 'peppery' or 'spicy' smell. Think of bay leaves and cooking...

Cedar smells like.....................well like my Mom's cedar cabinet, or like the cedar drawer liners (or a new cigar box). Spicy. Aromatic. Beyond that....

I can't begin to describe what cut Redwood smells like. It's not like Douglas Fir, Cedar, or anything else. Much more 'subtle'. Gonna have to think about it for a while. Best I can do for now is "earthy" and "mildly spicy"...

Everybody knows what pine smells like...

Arbutus menziesii - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Umbellularia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Gologit

Trx250r180 said:


> don't some of those redwoods shoot water streams out when cutting them ?



Gallons and gallons of it sometimes. If you had an old snag that had the top blown out of it sometimes they'd fill up like a water bottle.
Talk about stink. 

LOL...Bitz was asking about the smell of Redwood but I forgot to include that smell in my description. That stuff could be nasty.


----------



## Eccentric

Trx250r180 said:


> don't some of those redwoods shoot water streams out when cutting them ?



Seen oaks do that too. We took down a huge, gnarly old oak a while back (IIRC it was a Valley Oak). Was probably 3'x5' at the base (at least), with several forks and beams above that. Broad canopy. Blasted water out for at least a couple minutes while Norm was making his face cut (and this was after our climber had dropped the canopy and all of the upper beams). Overwhelmed his oiler. Chain bound up. Had to run the bar out of the cut for a spell to clear the water/mung out and get oil where it was supposed to be again.


----------



## paccity

all the sequoia and redwood i have cut , which is very little compared to a few members here. is all most a dirty sweet smell kinda hard to describe. if you realy want to know i'll mail you a small chunk so you will know.


----------



## treeslayer2003

Bob, we can see ya now lol. and yes you can write! I love the smell of decaying oak leaves in the fall. and for those that don't know, white oak smells very good compared to red oak.


----------



## Eccentric

treeslayer2003 said:


> Bob, we can see ya now lol. and yes you can write! I love the smell of decaying oak leaves in the fall. and for those that don't know, white oak smells very good compared to red oak.



Aside from any concerns over violating agricultural restrictions (#### 'em), we ought send some of our 'regional' wood samples around for examination. I've never cut red oak. Mostly Valley Oak, Tanoak and Coastal Live Oak, with a bit of California Black Oak thrown in.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quercus_lobata

Notholithocarpus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quercus kelloggii - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quercus agrifolia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

California oak woodland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## treeslayer2003

Eccentric said:


> Aside from any concerns over violating agricultural restrictions (#### 'em), we ought send some of our 'regional' wood samples around for examination. I've never cut red oak. Mostly Tanoak and Coastal Live Oak, with a bit of California Black Oak thrown in.
> 
> Notholithocarpus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Quercus kelloggii - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Quercus agrifolia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> California oak woodland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



if i'm right [witch is questionable] tan oak prolly smells like red oak. I assume they call it tan oak because of tannic acid, that is why red oak stinks. 
well shoot, it ain't even an oak, it's a beech ha! your black oak is closer to red oak.


----------



## Eccentric

treeslayer2003 said:


> if i'm right [witch is questionable] tan oak prolly smells like red oak. I assume they call it tan oak because of tannic acid, that is why red oak stinks.



I think you're right..........and Tanoak does have a strong smell. Not sure I'd quite call it a 'stink'...........at least in comparison to Eucalyptus or Elm. That stuff STINKS.


----------



## bitzer

Gologit said:


> Nope, not like cedar. Not pine or spruce either. And not like fir. Next time I'm over on the coast (I just got home from there today) I'll whittle you off a few chunks and mail them to you. You can decide what it smells like.
> 
> This isn't doing me any good, ya know. Now I'm wracking my brain, what there is of it, trying to figure out how to describe the smell of Redwood. You're asking a guy with six cylinder equipment to try an eight cylinder job. Isn't this elder abuse?
> 
> And I understand about different wood smells triggering different memories. The smell of Bay trees is one of my earliest childhood memories. My Grandfather's ranch had hundreds of them. RandyMac knows the part of the country I'm talking about. In the heat of a summer day that smell laid so heavy in the air that you felt like it was coating your skin and clothes. You could almost see that smell.
> 
> But Redwood? Dunno. If I could really write I'd say that I keep getting the smell of it, and it does have a unique smell, mixed in with sweat, and snoose, and saw mix, and boot grease, and diesel exhaust, and the way the inside of your black metal lunch pail smelled after sitting out in the sun all morning. Redwood smells like the grease on a new bull line, and cigarette smoke, and moss, and ferns, and fresh turned dirt on a skid road, and the inside of a crummy, and that particular smell of big gear drive Mac or Homelite when you finally finish a long buck and shut it off to refuel. That's about as close as I can come to describing it.



That's a damn good explanation Bob. I think I get it or as close to it as I can. I knew it was a tough question after I thought about it.


----------



## Metals406

For all you fellas wanting to know about redwood smell. . . A lot of lumber yards have it for decking. You can go in there and lay your stiffer on it. I grew up using redwood for all kinds of carpentry projects with my dad. It does have its own smell. It's also very soft and brittle at the same time.

Sent from my SCH-S738C using Spider Silk


----------



## 1270d

I of course can't comment on redwood smell. Red oak on the other hand smells like ketchup. Yellow birch is my favorite as far as smell. Very minty. Tamarack/larch is also nice, like fresh cut grass. But that comes when the tops get crushed up in a skid trail.


----------



## HuskStihl

Cutting cedar always brings me back to a closet I used to hide in in my grandmothers house. Last summer seems like forever ago.......


----------



## lfnh

just love me the smells of them Highly Valuable Black Walnuts.
and along wif'd them freshly minted, crisp smells is the vision of yellow nuggets and hot coals. :msp_wink:


----------



## 056 kid

Id say my favorite is that of the small green trees, some reefer to them as weeds. No pun


----------



## 056 kid

Trx250r180 said:


> don't some of those redwoods shoot water streams out when cutting them ?



Any tree with windshake is gonna have something to spray on you, crotches, anywere fluid can accumulate. I cut a big ugly red fir back in my sport falling days that gushed thick sap for several minutes. In that case pitch pockets I rekon.
Here's a funny one. A friend had been in piss fir all day and later at the tavern a woman complimented him on how he smelled like christmas trees. He responded by saying " thats just piss fir baby". What a way to blow a come on lmao.


----------



## northmanlogging

Fresh cut alder, and Doug fir.

But a western hemlock mess the day after cutting in the fall... sort of a mix of the two like to much candy at christmas, always brings me back to pulling choker behind a beat to hel old D-4 cat and an arch...

The wifey really likes the smell of western hemlock...


----------



## Metals406

Grand Fir really make me think of Christmas.

Sent from my SCH-S738C using Green Lasers


----------



## treeslayer2003

hello


----------



## Gologit

I was going to post a falling video but the usual headers seem to be missing. Is it the hackers or just my pc?


----------



## HuskStihl

I would assume it's the site. I'm very sad to hear it as I very much enjoy watching you fall trees. If it's on YouTube just copy and paste a link here and we'll find it. You better have your thumb wrapped or I'll bullbuck ya:biggrin:


----------



## Gologit

Meh, it wasn't anything special. I was chasing the hinge on a leaner that I should have Coos Bay'd or bored. Never did catch it and it shows when the fibre pull starts. Kind of an object lesson in what not to do. I'll see if I can find it.


----------



## HuskStihl

If you need a faster saw just PM me!:jester:

I guess it's just you and me Bob, if'n u'r looking for pro logging discussion you're SOL. I know a whole bunch about high fashion and French cuisine if you would like to talk about that:msp_biggrin:


----------



## madmarksolomon

Good to see a few folks still hanging around. The smell of burning juniper always reminds me of home.


----------



## Gologit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7kvbqxUIsQ&feature=player_detailpage



This was high stumped because it sat in the corner of a historic rock wall on an old mining site. I couldn't get in behind it, no escape path if it went wrong, so I just got lazy and 3 cut it. Notice how it hangs just a little before it starts over? That's how barber chairs happen. I should have chased the hinge just a little more but the best method would have been to use a Coos Bay or maybe bore it. It had quite a lean to it.


----------



## Gologit

HuskStihl said:


> If you need a faster saw just PM me!:jester:
> 
> I guess it's just you and me Bob, if'n u'r looking for pro logging discussion you're SOL. I know a whole bunch about high fashion and French cuisine if you would like to talk about that:msp_biggrin:



If the site stays up people will come back. That "other site" is mostly for the whiners and crybabies that didn't like it here. It has a lot of flash but no real substance. Unfortunately the whiners and crybabies will probably come back too.

And...as far as high fashion and French cuisine goes? I make sure both my socks are right side out and the log marking paint stains on my shirt don't clash with my suspenders...that's about as far as I go. I do make it a point to change my shirt about every three days or when the oil stains on the front catch fire from my cigarette ashes, whichever comes first. Slowp is the fashion consultant here and I wouldn't even try to take that job.
French cuisine...I ate at Galatoires in New Orleans a couple of times when somebody else was paying.


----------



## Metals406

I haven't jumped ship! I am, however, home with a buggered back again today -- which really hinders any kind of jumping at all.

Sent from my SCH-S738C using Beaver Pelts


----------



## Gologit

LOL...I wasn't talking about you when I mentioned "whiners and crybabies". Most of the guys don't fit that category. 
I think it's good, really, that there's a place for guys to go who don't really contribute anything to the forum other than juvenile behavior. Hey, every kid needs a playground.

Take care of that back. I waited too long to get mine taken care of the first time and I wound up getting surgery for it. I'm looking at another hip replacement and maybe more back surgery on top of that later this winter. Just normal wear and tear...for a logger anyway.


----------



## Metals406

Gologit said:


> LOL...I wasn't talking about you when I mentioned "whiners and crybabies". Most of the guys don't fit that category.
> I think it's good, really, that there's a place for guys to go who don't really contribute anything to the forum other than juvenile behavior. Hey, every kid needs a playground.
> 
> Take care of that back. I waited too long to get mine taken care of the first time and I wound up getting surgery for it. I'm looking at another hip replacement and maybe more back surgery on top of that later this winter. Just normal wear and tear...for a logger anyway.



I know you weren't referring to me. . . I was just waving my hand in the air to be counted for attendance. 

Yeah, I definitely don't want any kind of surgery. That crap is expensive!!



Sent from my SCH-S738C using Energized Electrons


----------



## JakeG

Bob, you're right... The children will probably come back. So long as they don't come here.


----------



## slowp

They even use the term, Lumberjacks there! I didn't see :msp_biggrin:_Farmer Loggers _used. 

Maybe I should join and start a thread called, Any Farmer Loggers Here? I'd have to have a different Nom De Plume--did I spell that right? I took Spanish in high school, there was no french. I have gotten my French off of Canadian food labels. 

Just killing some time before leaving with The Used Dog to go see the vet. 

Hope everybody is well or getting weller.


----------



## HuskStihl

Gologit said:


> If the site stays up people will come back. That "other site" is mostly for the whiners and crybabies that didn't like it here.
> 
> 
> 
> Bob,
> The first part of your statement is almost certainly true. The second part may have been partly true prior to the hack, but is no longer valid. Most of us on the "falling pics" and "not-so-pro" threads are somewhat addicted to hanging out and BSing, and found a convenient and familiar feeling place to do just that. It might even be said we non-hostile-ly "took over" our own little corner of the other site. We would like you and Slowp to come hang out until AS is fixed. Most folks are there, even some dude with a name which rhymes with CandyPack. Respectfully,
> Jon
Click to expand...


----------



## Trx250r180

it's kind of a laid back atmosphere there ,not much whining and such going on that iv'e noticed ,lot of profesional people there ,and many respected members from here are starting to discuss stuff there


----------



## HuskStihl

Gologit said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7kvbqxUIsQ&feature=player_detailpage
> 
> 
> 
> This was high stumped because it sat in the corner of a historic rock wall on an old mining site. I couldn't get in behind it, no escape path if it went wrong, so I just got lazy and 3 cut it. Notice how it hangs just a little before it starts over? That's how barber chairs happen. I should have chased the hinge just a little more but the best method would have been to use a Coos Bay or maybe bore it. It had quite a lean to it.



Overall I thought your technique looked fairly sound. You wouldn't last long in production falling with your thumb up like that. You're falling a tree, not hitching a ride. :jester:


----------



## Gologit

HuskStihl said:


> Gologit said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the site stays up people will come back. That "other site" is mostly for the whiners and crybabies that didn't like it here.
> 
> 
> 
> Bob,
> The first part of your statement is almost certainly true. The second part may have been partly true prior to the hack, but is no longer valid. Most of us on the "falling pics" and "not-so-pro" threads are somewhat addicted to hanging out and BSing, and found a convenient and familiar feeling place to do just that. It might even be said we non-hostile-ly "took over" our own little corner of the other site. We would like you and Slowp to come hang out until AS is fixed. Most folks are there, even some dude with a name which rhymes with CandyPack. Respectfully,
> Jon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First of all I didn't mention anyone specifically. Those two threads have good people in them and I never had any problem with any of the regulars there.
> 
> Just like you guys, I'll decide for myself where I go and if I go there at all. My choice entirely.
> 
> So...are we clear on all this now? You guys are fine. But hey...if the shoe fits by all means put that ####er on!
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## Gologit

HuskStihl said:


> Overall I thought your technique looked fairly sound. You wouldn't last long in production falling with your thumb up like that. You're falling a tree, not hitching a ride. :jester:



Thanks for the critique. I'll certainly give it the attention it deserves. If my thumbs hadn't been broken, both of them more than once, and weren't arthritic I could probably bend them better. You learn to play the cards you're dealt.


----------



## Metals406

Gologit said:


> Thanks for the critique. I'll certainly give it the attention it deserves. If my thumbs hadn't been broken, both of them more than once, and weren't arthritic I could probably bend them better. You learn to play the cards you're dealt.



Don't let him bully you about your thumbs Bob!! I do the same thing. . . And pick my nose with two fingers at once.



Good luck getting that image out of ther brain! :-D

Sent from my SCH-S738C using my Nose Pick'n Fingers


----------



## HuskStihl

Gologit said:


> You learn to play the cards you're dealt.



Ain't that the truth. Sorry for funnin' on ya, you deserve better than that from me.


----------



## Metals406

HuskStihl said:


> Ain't that the truth. Sorry for funnin' on ya, you deserve better than that from me.



Bob's just rib'n ya right back. . . Cause he's cantancerous. 

Sent from my SCH-S738C using Alien DNA


----------



## treeslayer2003

Gologit said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7kvbqxUIsQ&feature=player_detailpage
> 
> 
> 
> This was high stumped because it sat in the corner of a historic rock wall on an old mining site. I couldn't get in behind it, no escape path if it went wrong, so I just got lazy and 3 cut it. Notice how it hangs just a little before it starts over? That's how barber chairs happen. I should have chased the hinge just a little more but the best method would have been to use a Coos Bay or maybe bore it. It had quite a lean to it.



I just watched the vid and a few other falling vids ya had there. very nice falling and hazard trees a little pull is fine. thanks for sharing Bob. oh, my 660 don't sound like that. but maybe it will when it gets back here this week! :msp_wink:


----------



## 056 kid

Gologit said:


> Meh, it wasn't anything special. I was chasing the hinge on a leaner that I should have Coos Bay'd or bored. Never did catch it and it shows when the fibre pull starts. Kind of an object lesson in what not to do. I'll see if I can find it.



Put some bite in that chain Bob! That's not big timber like your used to. Those shrubs go quick! Haha I dont know what im talking about, but I just watched a program about the dangers of high school football. It brought back memories of what was so far the best part of my time. Now im all jacked up. Wish I felt this way at 4:00 every morning. 
On a side note, hit them as hard as you can, every time, all the time. Cock and rock baby! Break some ####in helmets men! Aaaaaarg!!
Okay now I gotta try and sleep.......


----------



## Gologit

treeslayer2003 said:


> I just watched the vid and a few other falling vids ya had there. very nice falling and hazard trees a little pull is fine. thanks for sharing Bob. oh, my 660 don't sound like that. but maybe it will when it gets back here this week! :msp_wink:



LOL...my wife likes to come out and take pictures sometimes. I asked her one day why she only took pictures when things didn't go like I planned. I didn't like her answer.

The 660 has a triple port muffler...part of the TreeSlingr' magic.


----------



## twochains

Gologit said:


> LOL...my wife likes to come out and take pictures sometimes. I asked her one day why she only took pictures when things didn't go like I planned. I didn't like her answer.
> 
> The 660 has a triple port muffler...part of the TreeSlingr' magic.



I can't even get my dual port off back order...and you have a triple? Damn....


----------



## Gologit

twochains said:


> I can't even get my dual port off back order...and you have a triple? Damn....



The dual port cover is common out here. If you drop a line to Bailey's or Madsen's I'll bet they can get one. Some of the saw shops in SW Washington would have it too. Slowp, Madhatte, or Paccity can give you some leads.

If all else fails, go ahead and make your own. If the Search function ever comes back up there are a lot of good threads on muff mods.


----------



## northmanlogging

Gologit said:


> If the site stays up people will come back. That "other site" is mostly for the whiners and crybabies that didn't like it here. It has a lot of flash but no real substance. Unfortunately the whiners and crybabies will probably come back too.
> 
> And...as far as high fashion and French cuisine goes? I make sure both my socks are right side out and the log marking paint stains on my shirt don't clash with my suspenders...that's about as far as I go. I do make it a point to change my shirt about every three days or when the oil stains on the front catch fire from my cigarette ashes, whichever comes first. Slowp is the fashion consultant here and I wouldn't even try to take that job.
> French cuisine...I ate at Galatoires in New Orleans a couple of times when somebody else was paying.



The other site is nice but the seats don't have that familiar groove that fits my ass, this is home, unless it burns down all the way.

And I'm thinking thats another reason to consider quitting smoking... being on fire sucks:eek2:



slowp said:


> They even use the term, Lumberjacks there! I didn't see :msp_biggrin:_Farmer Loggers _used.
> 
> Maybe I should join and start a thread called, Any Farmer Loggers Here? I'd have to have a different Nom De Plume--did I spell that right? I took Spanish in high school, there was no french. I have gotten my French off of Canadian food labels.
> 
> Just killing some time before leaving with The Used Dog to go see the vet.
> 
> Hope everybody is well or getting weller.



Hi MissP...



HuskStihl said:


> Overall I thought your technique looked fairly sound. You wouldn't last long in production falling with your thumb up like that. You're falling a tree, not hitching a ride. :jester:



One of these days man... some one is going to meet you face to face and there going to be an ackward silence filled with drinking and stupid grins...




Gologit said:


> LOL...my wife likes to come out and take pictures sometimes. I asked her one day why she only took pictures when things didn't go like I planned. I didn't like her answer.
> 
> The 660 has a triple port muffler...part of the TreeSlingr' magic.



I feel your pain, she comes out takes a few pics, I get home and all it is is pecker poles and tops, with a whole bunch of flowers, funny looking fungus, and "scary looking bugs" not one action shot of me and the 48" spruce:msp_confused:


Well so far mostly good kinda hard to move around until I signed in... whatever...


----------



## twochains

Gologit said:


> The dual port cover is common out here. If you drop a line to Bailey's or Madsen's I'll bet they can get one. Some of the saw shops in SW Washington would have it too. Slowp, Madhatte, or Paccity can give you some leads.
> 
> If all else fails, go ahead and make your own. If the Search function ever comes back up there are a lot of good threads on muff mods.



Thanks Bob! I hope everything gets straightened out over here. Have a good evening.


----------



## Gologit

northmanlogging said:


> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I feel your pain, she comes out takes a few pics, I get home and all it is is pecker poles and tops, with a whole bunch of flowers, funny looking fungus, and "scary looking bugs" not one action shot of me and the 48" spruce:msp_confused:



Yup. When I get one of those perfect trees...you know the kind, surgically precise cuts, no wasted effort, sweet running saw, one task leading directly and unbroken to the next almost like it's been choreographed, with a gentle drop into a perfect lead and a total save out...and I ask her "Hey, did you get that?" her answer is usually "Uh, no...I was taking pictures of the dogs".

But if I screw one up...misjudge the lean, miss match the cuts to where the tree looks like it's been gnawed on by a tag team of rabid beavers, stumble and fall down at least once, knock my hard hat off, misplace my axe, have to double up every wedge I own and beat and beat and beat on them and then the tree goes early and across the lead and busts up into eight different pieces none of which are a sellable length, and leave fiber pull long enough to give RandyMac cause for comment and my zipper has been down the entire time...she gets National Geographic quality pictures of the entire debacle. Never fails.


----------



## HuskStihl

northmanlogging said:


> One of these days man... some one is going to meet you face to face and there going to be an ackward silence filled with drinking and stupid grins.



_like_

That's how it usually goes. I talk tons of trash, get confronted, cry and blubber a whole bunch, then get drunk. Kinda fun!


----------



## HuskStihl

Gologit said:


> Yup. When I get one of those perfect trees...you know the kind, surgically precise cuts, no wasted effort, sweet running saw, one task leading directly and unbroken to the next almost like it's been choreographed, with a gentle drop into a perfect lead and a total save out...and I ask her "Hey, did you get that?" her answer is usually "Uh, no...I was taking pictures of the dogs".
> 
> But if I screw one up...misjudge the lean, miss match the cuts to where the tree looks like it's been gnawed on by a tag team of rabid beavers, stumble and fall down at least once, knock my hard hat off, misplace my axe, have to double up every wedge I own and beat and beat and beat on them and then the tree goes early and across the lead and busts up into eight different pieces none of which are a sellable length, and leave fiber pull long enough to give RandyMac cause for comment and my zipper has been down the entire time...she gets National Geographic quality pictures of the entire debacle. Never fails.




_like_

Be the same if you pumped septic tanks instead of logging. Your photo album would be filled with pictures of you covered with ####.

Wives generally aren't allowed to come into the OR to take pics of u'r ####-ups, but mine's a cute little orthopaedic surgeon, so you can imagine......


----------



## northmanlogging

Gologit said:


> Yup. When I get one of those perfect trees...you know the kind, surgically precise cuts, no wasted effort, sweet running saw, one task leading directly and unbroken to the next almost like it's been choreographed, with a gentle drop into a perfect lead and a total save out...and I ask her "Hey, did you get that?" her answer is usually "Uh, no...I was taking pictures of the dogs".
> 
> But if I screw one up...misjudge the lean, miss match the cuts to where the tree looks like it's been gnawed on by a tag team of rabid beavers, stumble and fall down at least once, knock my hard hat off, misplace my axe, have to double up every wedge I own and beat and beat and beat on them and then the tree goes early and across the lead and busts up into eight different pieces none of which are a sellable length, and leave fiber pull long enough to give RandyMac cause for comment and my zipper has been down the entire time...she gets National Geographic quality pictures of the entire debacle. Never fails.



thats good times


----------



## madhatte

Gologit said:


> The dual port cover is common out here. If you drop a line to Bailey's or Madsen's I'll bet they can get one. Some of the saw shops in SW Washington would have it too. Slowp, Madhatte, or Paccity can give you some leads.



DP cover is so common out here that it's almost the standard rather than the exception. Kind of shocked that it hasn't caught on elsewhere.

I even have a couple of extras for 044/440/046/460. No extras for the 064/066/660.


----------



## Metals406

Like


----------



## rwoods

Nice video, Bob. Now what have I've been missing among your miscellaneous adventures? Based upon my viewing of your video, YouTube recommended that I also watch "Tank Crushes Toyota Prius!" :msp_unsure: Ron


----------



## Trx250r180

Gologit said:


> LOL...my wife likes to come out and take pictures sometimes. I asked her one day why she only took pictures when things didn't go like I planned. I didn't like her answer.
> 
> The 660 has a triple port muffler...part of the TreeSlingr' magic.



iv'e noticed a lot of the fallers around here run triple ports ,the 660's sure sound good when you let them breathe ,i have a triple on one of my 440 saws with the early 10mm jug ,it runs pretty good


----------



## paccity

madhatte said:


> DP cover is so common out here that it's almost the standard rather than the exception. Kind of shocked that it hasn't caught on elsewhere.
> 
> I even have a couple of extras for 044/440/046/460. No extras for the 064/066/660.



i'll dig around . i'm sure i've got some around somewhere.:msp_rolleyes:


----------



## twochains

Here is a couple videos I made recently to add to the pile opcorn:

This one I was cutting these pine off a fence, first one I fell up and away and the others had quite th head lean over the fence so I put them on their sides.

[video=youtube;7eu7obRtJZk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eu7obRtJZk&feature=c4-overview&list=UU_NjqCPS3PCA_PGz4NCZuLA[/video]


----------



## twochains

Here is another one from the same day

[video=youtube;sfGHlN3b6yU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfGHlN3b6yU&list=UU_NjqCPS3PCA_PGz4NCZuLA[/video]


----------



## twochains

This one is a good oak from this morning

[video=youtube;6kgo_LNpsnQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kgo_LNpsnQ&feature=c4-overview&list=UU_NjqCPS3PCA_PGz4NCZuLA[/video]


----------



## HuskStihl

Nice looking work TC moving nicely. One of my favorite tricks is to pound in a wedge behind my bar, pinching my bar with the wedge, having to knock the wedge out to free my saw, putting the wedge back in, then boring in ahead of the wedge (mostly). It takes a lot of time, but for some reason I do it frequently. Nice to see somebody catch some of it on camera!


----------



## treeslayer2003

hey ya got a shirt on lol. boy a 24 been nice there huh?


----------



## twochains

treeslayer2003 said:


> hey ya got a shirt on lol. boy a 24 been nice there huh?



LOL! Yeh, I been wearing a shirt in the morning for a bit...I'm so fricken sun scalded I start out cold in the morning. Yeh a bigger bar would have been REALLY nice! But hey, slayer you remember what I said happened t that bar later this afternoon??? I'm VERY GLAD I didn't have on my lon bar! LOL!


----------



## twochains

HuskStihl said:


> Nice looking work TC moving nicely. One of my favorite tricks is to pound in a wedge behind my bar, pinching my bar with the wedge, having to knock the wedge out to free my saw, putting the wedge back in, then boring in ahead of the wedge (mostly). It takes a lot of time, but for some reason I do it frequently. Nice to see somebody catch some of it on camera!



Thanks Husk! Yeh early this morning on a small pine I burnt that wedge off...oh well...it happens.


----------



## HuskStihl

twochains said:


> This one is a good oak from this morning
> 
> [video=youtube;p5pTnlr9JWM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5pTnlr9JWM&feature=c4-overview&list=UU_NjqCPS3PCA_PGz4NCZuLA[/video]



Nice fall Clint! Way to chase the hinge. When you put in the gunning cut, I was sure there wasn't enough room for a Humboldt, but I was wrong!


----------



## HuskStihl

twochains said:


> Thanks Husk! Yeh early this morning on a small pine I burnt that wedge off...oh well...it happens.



I like to spice up my videos with some yellow, orange, or green chips thrown in. Handsome mike usually spots 'em. I view plastic 6" wedges as being basically disposable, so no technical deduction from the Texas judge!:biggrin:


----------



## treeslayer2003

hey cat, remembered ya pass word I see. yer pm box full dude.


----------



## Metals406

huskstihl said:


> nice looking work tc moving nicely. One of my favorite tricks is to pound in a wedge behind my bar, pinching my bar with the wedge, having to knock the wedge out to free my saw, putting the wedge back in, then boring in ahead of the wedge (mostly). It takes a lot of time, but for some reason i do it frequently. Nice to see somebody catch some of it on camera!



lol!!


----------



## jrcat

Cleared it Mike


----------



## twochains

HuskStihl said:


> I like to spice up my videos with some yellow, orange, or green chips thrown in. Handsome mike usually spots 'em. I view plastic 6" wedges as being basically disposable, so no technical deduction from the Texas judge!:biggrin:



Thanks! Whats worse is that I used it the rest of the day...I broke the others last week.


----------



## twochains

HuskStihl said:


> Nice looking work TC moving nicely. One of my favorite tricks is to pound in a wedge behind my bar, pinching my bar with the wedge, having to knock the wedge out to free my saw, putting the wedge back in, then boring in ahead of the wedge (mostly). It takes a lot of time, but for some reason I do it frequently. Nice to see somebody catch some of it on camera!



Ha! I just went back an seen what you were talking about..2nd tree 1st vid? LOL! I sawed that wedge off on a different tree earlier that day. :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## HuskStihl

twochains said:


> Ha! I just went back an seen what you were talking about..2nd tree 1st vid? LOL! I sawed that wedge off on a different tree earlier that day. :hmm3grin2orange:



If your "sledge" was a little more head heavy, you could really get the bar stuck!

I ruined a chain doing that once, but on a back leaner I have a compulsive need to have a wedge in the back cut early. Good news, baileys just had a good sale on hard heads. (Thanks again tramp for clueing me in to 'em, they drive and lift *great* with the stumpy sledge.


----------



## twochains

HuskStihl said:


> If your "sledge" was a little more head heavy, you could really get the bar stuck!
> 
> I ruined a chain doing that once, but on a back leaner I have a compulsive need to have a wedge in the back cut early. Good news, baileys just had a good sale on hard heads. (Thanks again tramp for clueing me in to 'em, they drive and lift *great* with the stumpy sledge.



Yeh, I was pinched on a limb today wishing I had an ax. I just haven't ever carried one...I'd probably loose the damn thing.


----------



## Trx250r180

twochains said:


> Yeh, I was pinched on a limb today wishing I had an ax. I just haven't ever carried one...I'd probably loose the damn thing.



can I call you the ax man now ? lol


----------



## twochains

Trx250r180 said:


> can I call you the ax man now ? lol



No Brian... :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Trx250r180

twochains said:


> No Brian... :hmm3grin2orange:



You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to twochains again.


Trx250r180 likes this ..........


----------



## JakeG

Clint, your caveman sledge cracks me up as much as Texas anti-ankle biters do (tucked in socks).


----------



## HuskStihl

When stuff comes in the mail from Bailey's my saws get a little nervous, but the 394 was very happy when she realized it was all stuff to help her kill trees better. The full wrap feels good as well.











Figure she's pretty much broke in, got her a little somethin' to take advantage of her torque (not calling her fat). Gonna tune her a bit nasty and find something to cut


----------



## twochains

JakeG said:


> Clint, your caveman sledge cracks me up as much as Texas anti-ankle biters do (tucked in socks).



LOL! Hey...it works :msp_w00t:

....Texas anti-ankle biter...pfftt! :hmm3grin2orange: Hey at least you know it's him when you see his vids. :msp_thumbup:


----------



## HuskStihl

twochains said:


> LOL! Hey...it works :msp_w00t:



It works for what u'r using it for, but if you ever needed to lift one you'd wish you had something different. Why am I bullbucking everybody today????:msp_unsure:


----------



## twochains

HuskStihl said:


> It works for what u'r using it for, but if you ever needed to lift one you'd wish you had something different. Why am I bullbucking everybody today????:msp_unsure:



IDK...you ran out of meds?? THH! :msp_w00t:


----------



## Gologit

HuskStihl said:


> It works for what u'r using it for, but if you ever needed to lift one you'd wish you had something different. Why am I bullbucking everybody today????:msp_unsure:



Speaking of bullbucks...you need to get out here the first weekend in November for the NorCal GTG. Just imagine RandyMac, 2dogs, Paccity, Spotted Owl, Slowp, and me all in one place. It could be a very instructional weekend for you. If you survive.


----------



## treeslayer2003

now that's a name I ain't seen in a while, how is owl? love to see him in here again.


----------



## Gologit

treeslayer2003 said:


> now that's a name I ain't seen in a while, how is owl? love to see him in here again.



He's doing great. I talked him on the phone a couple of days ago. He's busier than hell, which is nothing new for him, but he's going to try to make it down here for the GTG.


----------



## treeslayer2003

man i'd love to come see y'all but no way could I stop n fly out there right now. one of these days...


----------



## treeslayer2003

y'all gotta take pics.


----------



## slowp

Gologit said:


> Speaking of bullbucks...you need to get out here the first weekend in November for the NorCal GTG. Just imagine RandyMac, 2dogs, Paccity, Spotted Owl, Slowp, and me all in one place. It could be a very instructional weekend for you. If you survive.



Plus The Used Dog, on or off medication. We don't know yet. I am NOT a bullbuck. I am merely a forester:coffee: type who is the gofer for the  fallers sometimes, when I get up in time, or when hikers need to be scared off.


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> Plus The Used Dog, on or off medication. We don't know yet. I am NOT a bullbuck. I am merely a forester:coffee: type who is the gofer for the  fallers sometimes, when I get up in time, or when hikers need to be scared off.



Slowp is being modest. I've cut with her. I'd cut with her again. She does just fine with a saw.

Besides which, how many good cutters do we have that can also bake excellent cookies and huckleberry pie?


----------



## northmanlogging

Gologit said:


> Speaking of bullbucks...you need to get out here the first weekend in November for the NorCal GTG. Just imagine RandyMac, 2dogs, Paccity, Spotted Owl, Slowp, and me all in one place. It could be a very instructional weekend for you. If you survive.



once again I don't think I can make it... done logging for the year, NorCal is quite the hike from here...


----------



## slowp

northmanlogging said:


> once again I don't think I can make it... done logging for the year, NorCal is quite the hike from here...



Got a kayak? :msp_thumbup:


----------



## northmanlogging

No but I do know where a whole bunch of unguarded boats are... big uns too with a working head and a galley...

Not that I would condone stealing...

Besides they would probably just sink as soon as I untied em from the dock, or the dock would sink... place is pretty low rent for a marina...

Its more of a time and money thing for me to make to any of these gtg's, like I said earlier I'm working on one Hel of a project... we could be almost neighbors if it works out well... but I'm gonna need every spare penny I can beg borrow or steal to make it work.


----------



## HuskStihl

twochains said:


> IDK...you ran out of meds?? THH! :msp_w00t:



Nope, took my cialis, Viagra, and Levitra right on schedule this morning! 


Y'all know how much of a faller wannabe I am, but there is no way "she who must be obeyed" would approve a trip to CA to hang out with a handsome young woman like Ms.P


----------



## Gologit

HuskStihl said:


> Nope, took my cialis, Viagra, and Levitra right on schedule this morning!
> 
> 
> Y'all know how much of a faller wannabe I am, but there is no way "she who must be obeyed" would approve a trip to CA to hang out with a handsome young woman like Ms.P



Oh sure, blame it on your wife. Get out here, we'll ask you a lot of medical questions during the after work choir practice and you can chalk it up as doing a consult.


----------



## bitzer

Wow is this thing actually workin? I may have to post some pics this weekend if this keeps up.


----------



## madhatte

I just got leave approved; I'll be making it to the NorCal GTG this time. Could somebody kindly steer me in the direction of time/place/check-in information? Search is still ge-borkened.


----------



## paccity

madhatte said:


> I just got leave approved; I'll be making it to the NorCal GTG this time. Could somebody kindly steer me in the direction of time/place/check-in information? Search is still ge-borkened.



November 2-3 (Sat/Sun)


----------



## Gologit

madhatte said:


> I just got leave approved; I'll be making it to the NorCal GTG this time. Could somebody kindly steer me in the direction of time/place/check-in information? Search is still ge-borkened.



Good deal! Napa/Bothe Park...Bothe-Napa Valley SP 

It's the first weekend in November with activities scheduled for both Saturday and Sunday. Some of us are going early and doing some work in the park. Last year the park gave us free camping in exchange for some tree work.


Eccentric and Ckelp have all the details. http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/244782-5.htm


----------



## madhatte

Thank you!


----------



## Metals406

Nate wants to go!! :-(

It'd be more than 2k miles though.


----------



## Eccentric

Gologit said:


> Speaking of bullbucks...you need to get out here the first weekend in November for the NorCal GTG. Just imagine RandyMac, 2dogs, Paccity, Spotted Owl, Slowp, and me all in one place. It could be a very instructional weekend for you. If you survive.



I'll be spending much of my time there doing the "*s*hut *u*p and *l*isten" thing.............at least when I'm not busy tuning SlowP's saws (or throwing things at CKelp to get *him* to shut up and listen). Really looking forward to doing the *SU*&*L* thing while eating Huckleberry pie.



madhatte said:


> I just got leave approved; I'll be making it to the NorCal GTG this time. Could somebody kindly steer me in the direction of time/place/check-in information? Search is still ge-borkened.



Outstanding! We're having several folks make the long trip south to hang out with us. Don't think I've heard the term "ge-borkened" before...



Metals406 said:


> Nate wants to go!! :-(
> 
> It'd be more than 2k miles though.



Do it Nate! You can bring some of your 'big dawgs's while you're at it.


----------



## paccity

Metals406 said:


> Nate wants to go!! :-(
> 
> It'd be more than 2k miles though.



so.


----------



## slowp

paccity said:


> so.



Double liked!


----------



## RVALUE

Gologit said:


> Good deal! Napa/Bothe Park...Bothe-Napa Valley SP
> 
> It's the first weekend in November with activities scheduled for both Saturday and Sunday. Some of us are going early and doing some work in the park. Last year the park gave us free camping in exchange for some tree work.
> 
> 
> Eccentric and Ckelp have all the details. http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/244782-5.htm



That's using your heads!


----------



## twochains

Good Red Oak from this afternoon... 

[video=youtube;skCDc8JgEOM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skCDc8JgEOM&feature=c4-overview&list=UU_NjqCPS3PCA_PGz4NCZuLA[/video]


----------



## treeslayer2003

that was a nice one. what happened to the bark on one side? lightining?


----------



## twochains

treeslayer2003 said:


> that was a nice one. what happened to the bark on one side? lightining?



I think so Mike. I cut two that size about 1/4 mile apart and both had nearly identical markings. Most lightening strikes like that, kill the tree shortly there after. Those marks looked about a year old 2 max. I videoed a bigger one than that today to but I miss read where I was in my cut and left a 3 x 3 post and pulled about 8 inches of fiber! I even said dammit in the vid. I am going to upload it but prolly not post it. I wan't real proud of my mistake.


----------



## treeslayer2003

happens to the best of us bro. once in a while. I cuss myself too lol.


----------



## twochains

Well my mistake is not packing out and getting my 30" bar. The pull was at the tip of my bar where I had failed to complete my sweep. Ahhh...no real big deal...They ain't gonna bring the grade down any for that on a butt log as nice as this was! I figure very very little measurement in the stump and at 9'4....heck when it comes up I will post it...it's a damn nice tree.


----------



## treeslayer2003

believe it or not, I almost did that on the big pine with a 28. size of the tree fooled me, it happens.


----------



## JakeG

Looks good Clint! Thanks for posting the video


----------



## twochains

Thanks Jake!


----------



## bitzer

Clint- I gotta get you up here into some big timber. Its not unusual to have a 150 year old 4' red oak on a job. It just seems like your bigger timber is my average timber. 32" bar man. Any size timber. No ####in around, will get more wood on the ground as long as its got a hopped up 90ccs to pull it. Its just that short bar mentality of the hardwood logging crowd that is so hard to break. There is a flow and movement in running a long bar that I haven't seen yet.


----------



## twochains

Dude ifn you brought me up there in your timber we'd be fighting everyday on who was gonna cut! LOL! Yeh, honestly though...I didn't even know that timber was there and I wasn't packing out to get the 30" bar. The 660 is still stock bitzer. The tract I'm fixing to start on is all big timber like you're saying you have. Heck you know how it works...cut whats in front of ya and go home.


----------



## bitzer

Yeah Clint I know what you mean. I guess if your not getting paid by volume then it doesn't really matter a whole lot. You do know how to kill a lot of timber though and if you ever did get a job bushelin you would only need a few tweeks to really kill a lot of timber. One major thing for me was deciding on what bar length to stick with. I run the 32" bar full time no matter what the size of the wood and my volumes are pretty dam close no matter what I am cutting. If its all pulp I still cut two truckloads in a day. Yeah if its all logs I can squeak out some more, but I typically shoot for two loads a day (10mbf/20+ cords/or mixed logs and pulp). There are so many things you can do running a longer bar full time that you can't do with a short bar. You've got a system down though and it works for you, I just like nudging you a little .


----------



## Metals406

bitzer said:


> Yeah Clint I know what you mean. I guess if your not getting paid by volume then it doesn't really matter a whole lot. You do know how to kill a lot of timber though and if you ever did get a job bushelin you would only need a few tweeks to really kill a lot of timber. One major thing for me was deciding on what bar length to stick with. I run the 32" bar full time no matter what the size of the wood and my volumes are pretty dam close no matter what I am cutting. If its all pulp I still cut two truckloads in a day. Yeah if its all logs I can squeak out some more, but I typically shoot for two loads a day (10mbf/20+ cords/or mixed logs and pulp). There are so many things you can do running a longer bar full time that you can't do with a short bar. You've got a system down though and it works for you, I just like nudging you a little .



32" bars are just about the perfect all around bar.


----------



## bitzer

How was the first day back to work? Everything holdin up?


----------



## Metals406

bitzer said:


> How was the first day back to work? Everything holdin up?



A bit sore and stiff the first couple hours. . . Seems to be okay though. Thanks fer asking.


----------



## bitzer

Ok so where's the dam dawgs then? Haha! Just kidding man! When I asked you about them I didn't realize there was already serious demand for them. I just figured you did a lot of kickass metal work and probably could make some up. Then I noticed your ad in your sig line. Didn't mean to bug you about em! I'm sure you'll let us know when ever you get around to em. I'm in no hurry.


----------



## JakeG

We're all buggin him for dogs! If I were on a tract right now I'd have to use substandard husky dogs 

No big deal right now tho


----------



## Metals406

LOL. No worries boyz. 

I'll have the new batch of dawgz in mah pawz tomorrow evening after werk.


----------



## 1270d

Looks like the gerbils are spinning the wheel again


----------



## rwoods

The time change must have put everyone to sleep. Ron


----------



## Rounder

Well this all looks different...Hope all are well and safe- Sam


----------



## mdavlee

Nice to see you pop in Sam.


----------



## Spotted Owl

Hey I think the boy has figured away to get slides to the computer, may yet have something to put up here. Now he'll just have to show me how again, again.



Owl


----------



## slowp

Spotted Owl said:


> Hey I think the boy has figured away to get slides to the computer, may yet have something to put up here. Now he'll just have to show me how again, again.
> Owl


 
Can you post the secret of doing this? I've got slides (somewhere) of helicoptering bunches of logs in Central Oregon. It was 1993 I think.


----------



## Metals406

This new look will take some getting used to. . . At least it's back!


----------



## Cedarkerf

Metals406 said:


> This new look will take some getting used to. . . At least it's back!


Yup new look will take a bit hello again everybody

Attached a wood burning pic a few might like that Janimay did a while ago


----------



## Spotted Owl

slowp said:


> Can you post the secret of doing this? I've got slides (somewhere) of helicoptering bunches of logs in Central Oregon. It was 1993 I think.




Ummmm. No. But if he gets it to work, I know a kid that can. He is trying to do something with this thing so it can be transferred to that thing, and then land here somehow. I go cross eyed when he tries to explain it to me. 

If it works I will have him post up a how to of what he did.



Owl


----------



## Spotted Owl

Cedarkerf said:


> Yup new look will take a bit hello again everybody
> 
> Attached a wood burning pic a few might like that Janimay did a while ago




Wow. Very nicely done. 



Owl


----------



## coltont

Some from today












Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk


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## coltont

And a $5500 walnut tree wish there were more of these around!





Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk


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## Samlock

It wasn't my fault, boss.






See the sign? The stupid animal didn't snipe the notch and made it chair.


----------



## Gologit

Ooops. The wind caught it. Right? No? Dammit. Must have been the moose then.


----------



## slowp

Gologit said:


> Ooops. The wind caught it. Right? No? Dammit. Must have been the moose then.


 
Nope. The faller saw the creek right there and did not want to disturb the spawning bed and nearby riparian area. Good planning!


----------



## Gologit

You're right. Another perfect job. The 'chair was probably done on purpose for a safety video. Or something.


----------



## Samlock

slowp said:


> Nope. The faller saw the creek right there and did not want to disturb the spawning bed and nearby riparian area. Good planning!



Bulls eye! You never know what kind of polymorphic ecosystem a tractor track may hide...


----------



## twochains




----------



## coltont

The cows are taking over

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk


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## coltont

A job with about 90K of cherry this summer lots of nice diameter stuff got lucky and found a pocket of cherry in our area that didn't have any gum or red rot!

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk


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## coltont

More cherry

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk


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## coltont

Urban logging after a nasty thunder storm this summer

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk


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## coltont

A job within 5 miles of the mill if I recall correctly that load weighed 98000 and some change

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk


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## coltont

Nice ash from a job this winter that we are finishing this winter due to bat regulations.......big log kinda brown though some other pictures of some nice hard maple as well 

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk


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## bitzer




----------



## HuskStihl

That is one fancy firewood gatherer! Hard to tell whether a rude gesture was being displayed, or simply missing digits. To keep my wholesome image of loggers alive, I choose to believe the latter


----------



## Gologit

bitzer said:


> View attachment 318952




Hmmmm...nice load of limbs. Did you bring the real logs out on the next load?


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## paccity

there figuring out who's going to throw a wrap on them.


----------



## knothole

Cedarkerf said:


> Yup new look will take a bit hello again everybody
> 
> Attached a wood burning pic a few might like that Janimay did a while ago



Janimay does nice work! Thanks for sharing.


----------



## slowp

paccity said:


> there figuring out who's going to throw a wrap on them.


 
Well, I hope they did a cultural resources survey before hunkering there to do their figuring. That might could be a rock shelter, as they are demonstrating. 
We have similar topography around here.


----------



## hammerlogging

thats to be interpreted as "you're ok, and I'm having a good day" "But go ahead and go **** yourself anyhow"


----------



## bitzer

Gologit said:


> Hmmmm...nice load of limbs. Did you bring the real logs out on the next load?


 Those limbs are gunna be wrappin your burgers and workin where the sun don't shine!


----------



## bitzer

hammerlogging said:


> thats to be interpreted as "you're ok, and I'm having a good day" "But go ahead and go **** yourself anyhow"


 Yeah its how I say, hello. Well to my friends anyway...


----------



## coltont

I love poplar






Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk


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## treeslayer2003

me too lol


----------



## Rounder

Saw pard finishing off a decent larch Wednesday. Pretty damn good at age 60.


A sisweel saved my ass on this rotten red fir. Cleaned up about 20 feet out. Wanted down the hill and over a property line real bad. Pulled right into the lead with some help from that root. 
50K+ feet/acre on this sale, been there all summer/fall....finished it yesterday, hate to see the end of it.




Hope you all had a good safe week. Happy Thanksgiving - Sam


----------



## HuskStihl

That's awesome Sam, thanks for the pics!


----------



## paccity

Rounder said:


> View attachment 319562
> View attachment 319563
> View attachment 319564
> 
> 
> 
> Saw pard finishing off a decent larch Wednesday. Pretty damn good at age 60.
> 
> 
> A sisweel saved my ass on this rotten red fir. Cleaned up about 20 feet out. Wanted down the hill and over a property line real bad. Pulled right into the lead with some help from that root.
> 50K+ feet/acre on this sale, been there all summer/fall....finished it yesterday, hate to see the end of it.
> 
> View attachment 319566
> 
> 
> Hope you all had a good safe week. Happy Thanksgiving - Sam


looks a little crispy , stay warm and safe sam.


----------



## madhatte

Rounder said:


> 50K+ feet/acre on this sale, been there all summer/fall....finished it yesterday, hate to see the end of it.



50+ MBf/ac is no joke. Glad you got to enjoy the juice!


----------



## Metals406

Rounder said:


> View attachment 319562
> View attachment 319563
> View attachment 319564
> 
> 
> 
> Saw pard finishing off a decent larch Wednesday. Pretty damn good at age 60.
> 
> 
> A sisweel saved my ass on this rotten red fir. Cleaned up about 20 feet out. Wanted down the hill and over a property line real bad. Pulled right into the lead with some help from that root.
> 50K+ feet/acre on this sale, been there all summer/fall....finished it yesterday, hate to see the end of it.
> 
> View attachment 319566
> 
> 
> Hope you all had a good safe week. Happy Thanksgiving - Sam


That's a nice stick! Happy Turkey Day to you and the wife Sam. 

Sent from my cellphone using modern technology


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## Rounder

Thanks Nate, hope all's well with you and yours up North.


----------



## coltont

Not a cutting picture but a result of cutting!! Why would a forester mark a hard maple like this........I guess he read it in a book once and......... And he's completely un practical a low grade log promoter








Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk


----------



## treeslayer2003

stand improvment


----------



## Logdoggin

Here's some randoms from Southern West Virginia... None of actually felling Bc I'm too afraid to take a camera in the woods and no one is there to take em.




































Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## JakeG

Logdoggin, nice pics... Do you have anymore of that ford in the last pic?


----------



## Logdoggin

Here ya go, it's my grandpa's.































Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 1270d

coltont said:


> Not a cutting picture but a result of cutting!! Why would a forester mark a hard maple like this........I guess he read it in a book once and......... And he's completely un practical a low grade log promoter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk



I always figure there is only one stump mark so I cut all the stems and only leave one stump. I hate when they mark part of a clump like that.


----------



## HuskStihl

Logdoggin said:


> Here's some randoms from Southern West Virginia... None of actually felling Bc I'm too afraid to take a camera in the woods and no one is there to take em.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks for posting, great to see these pics!


----------



## Logdoggin

No problem! I'll try to get more when I can


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Logdoggin

Some other randoms. The first one is myself w my grandfather about 7 years ago


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## paccity

just a little push.


----------



## Logdoggin

Paccity, that's amazing. I would go insane if I got to cut timber like that on the East Coast


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## forestryworks

Logdoggin said:


> Paccity, that's amazing. I would go insane if I got to cut timber like that on the East Coast
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



That probably ain't the best way to conduct one's self whilst installing humboldts in those west coast trees. They'll kick your ass down the hill and call you a fool.


----------



## HuskStihl

Logdoggin said:


> Some other randoms. The first one is myself w my grandfather about 7 years ago
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I promise I did not chair that one!


----------



## HuskStihl

paccity said:


> View attachment 320096
> just a little push.


What's happening there? Is he looking at the back cut after it opened and the tree stalled? If that's the face I see lots of wedges in his future, unless the camera angle is goofin' me


----------



## Metals406

HuskStihl said:


> What's happening there? Is he looking at the back cut after it opened and the tree stalled? If that's the face I see lots of wedges in his future, unless the camera angle is goofin' me



Naw, just the tree going over, and the picture caught that moment in time. Lots of guys will mess about -- pushing on a nice tree now and then -- to 'help' it over.

Sent using two cans and a string.


----------



## Logdoggin

Haha yea I was visiting my cousin's job site when I got back from camp Lejeune and I got the pic of the busted cherry getting yanked on by the skidder. I've busted plenty of em and learned from my mistakes... And still learning. Thankfully that wasn't mine. That's what I find so exciting about cutting timber. You can watch 5 different people cut here and they all have a different technique. A lot of times it's not always for the best though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Metals406

Eat yer hearts out! 






Sent using two cans and a string.


----------



## paccity

Metals406 said:


> Naw, just the tree going over, and the picture caught that moment in time. Lots of guys will mess about -- pushing on a nice tree now and then -- to 'help' it over.
> 
> Sent using two cans and a string.


you got it.


----------



## paccity

forestryworks said:


> That probably ain't the best way to conduct one's self whilst installing humboldts in those west coast trees. They'll kick your ass down the hill and call you a fool.


awww just a little fun.


----------



## Rounder

Metals406 said:


> Eat yer hearts out!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent using two cans and a string.


 
Where the **** did you get those Nate? One's for me right??

Nice - Sam


----------



## coltont

Last year on a timber job in the big town of Todd Pa






second picture is a job we tried to buy but found out just before the job was a sealed deal that he was trying to sell timber owned by the local railroad that he had no rights to ......probably the most impressing stand of red oak I've seen..

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk


----------



## Gologit

Metals406 said:


> Naw, just the tree going over, and the picture caught that moment in time. Lots of guys will mess about -- pushing on a nice tree now and then -- to 'help' it over.
> 
> Sent using two cans and a string.




I thought maybe he was so winded from hammering those three wedges that he needed to rest a little.


----------



## Spotted Owl

Metals406 said:


> Eat yer hearts out!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent using two cans and a string.




No need to eat anything. My two have been in service for a while. I think I could get to like these bars. Them suckers is tough. You'll like them. I just wish there was a better source for them. Where did you get those?



Owl


----------



## Metals406

Rounder said:


> Where the **** did you get those Nate? One's for me right??
> 
> Nice - Sam


I paid this Canadian guy lots of money for them. 

Sent using two cans and a string.


----------



## Metals406

Spotted Owl said:


> No need to eat anything. My two have been in service for a while. I think I could get to like these bars. Them suckers is tough. You'll like them. I just wish there was a better source for them. Where did you get those?
> 
> 
> 
> Owl



They're 32" x .063" -- $175 each at my door.

Bought them from Dave M., "thechainsawguy" here on AS. search for his Tsumura thread, find him on the web too.

Sent using two cans and a string.


----------



## Metals406

http://www.thechainsawstore.com/

Sent using two cans and a string.


----------



## Samlock

I'm currently logging another golf course. Plenty of dead top trees to cut over there. Keeps you kinda awake.


----------



## HuskStihl

Samlock said:


> I'm currently logging another golf course. Plenty of dead top trees to cut over there. Keeps you kinda awake.



You should see how fast and far you have to run when you have no idea where it's going. Nice snipe and camera angle


----------



## Samlock

HuskStihl said:


> You should see how fast and far you have to run when you have no idea where it's going. Nice snipe and camera angle



Thanks, Jon.

No, I don't want to see that. Running like hell and not looking back may not save your ass if it goes sideways. The tree falls faster than you run, but slower than you think. The right procedure is to stay by the stump, enjoy yourself, and look carefully where is it about to go. Then few tranquil steps to your side (tripping up is not an option).

The stuff that comes from above, when you see it, it's already late to do anything.

Another clip from the golf course. Bore cutting. Dig how hard the frozen birch gets. Like steel.


----------



## HuskStihl

I actually found a video of one I walked away from calmly. Probably because I was either 1) so tired from smacking wedges that I didn't have the energy to run, or 2) so disgusted with my inability to match cuts, necessitating an unwanted block face that I just didn't care anymore....




Belongs more in the homeowner helpers forum


----------



## Metals406

HuskStihl said:


> I actually found a video of one I walked away from calmly. Probably because I was either 1) so tired from smacking wedges that I didn't have the energy to run, or 2) so disgusted with my inability to match cuts, necessitating an unwanted block face that I just didn't care anymore....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Belongs more in the homeowner helpers forum




Naw, you probably sucked at z plasty's and sutures at first too. . . It's like anything, practice makes perfect. 

Sent using two cans and a string.


----------



## HuskStihl

Small girlie-man being pulled this way and that by a big nasty saw. Seems wierd to real fallers, but with a bar significantly smaller than the tree, I feel a need to start the second cut at the far corner and come backwards. With a long bar, I dog in at the near corner and always (I mean every single ****ing time) miss the far corner short.


----------



## HuskStihl

Metals406 said:


> Naw, you probably sucked at z plasty's and sutures at first too. . . It's like anything, practice makes perfect.
> 
> Sent using two cans and a string.


True, and since I haven't had a need to do a Z-plasty in 10+years, I'd be rusty at that too.
I was looking back at this forum and realized lots of pictures/vids must have died with the "reboot". I'm bored between hockey games, so I figured I'd pollute this thread with silly-falling.


----------



## HuskStihl

Sorry Burvol



Last one, I promise


----------



## Metals406

Don't be so hard on yourself. . . How many trees have you fell? 100? I know guys that have 40 years and 200,000 trees that miss the off side. Or they cut too much holdwood, or dutch one side and it pulls the tree.

If you learn something each time, that's what counts. On missing the off side -- if anything -- train yourself to miss high and not low. High, you can cut more out, low and you'll most likely change your gun. Especially if you try and fix it by beavering on it, instead of just starting over with the gun - and cleaning from there.

Sent using two cans and a string.


----------



## twochains

Here's a couple from a tract I'm currently working...nothing spectacular...meh

Up hilled against lean to save out a set of small pine


----------



## HuskStihl

I think I always come up short with the undercut on a Humboldt is 'cause before I knew better, I chased my "long" undercut with my gunning cut, and wound up having to do about 50 feet of fence repair. It seems so easy on paper or videos......
I will say, learning stuff here, and reading stuff in books has helped a ton, and I haven't missed one since last spring. If nobody is watching or timing me, I can eventually make a usable face. I bore more than I need to 'cause ever since Tramp said _any idiot can throw in a back cut _I haven't been able to


----------



## HuskStihl

twochains said:


> Here's a couple from a tract I'm currently working...nothing spectacular...meh
> 
> Up hilled against lean to save out a set of small pine



Nice new wedge, and even better Dutch on the first tree. I was hoping you didn't buy too many hardhead's as they would damage your "sledge"!

I would love to spend a day cutting with you, but you'd have to up u'r life insurance first


----------



## twochains

My LI is in good shape! LOL! Hey Husk....have you seen my high stump video where I botched the face and ended up with a sniped conventional??? LOL! Makes me wonder if some of these faces people use were originally mistakes! LMAO! If you haven't seen it I can post it...my excuse is that it was a head high cut and I don't get alot of practice on them. LOL!


----------



## Metals406

So much for any little regen. . . Clint cut it all down.


----------



## HuskStihl

twochains said:


> My LI is in good shape! LOL! Hey Husk....have you seen my high stump video where I botched the face and ended up with a sniped conventional??? LOL! Makes me wonder if some of these faces people use were originally mistakes! LMAO! If you haven't seen it I can post it...my excuse is that it was a head high cut and I don't get alot of practice on them. LOL!


Post it,I'm boredopcorn:


None of my mistakes ever seem to lead to anything good


----------



## Gologit

Metals406 said:


> Don't be so hard on yourself. . . How many trees have you fell? 100? I know guys that have 40 years and 200,000 trees that miss the off side. Or they cut too much holdwood, or dutch one side and it pulls the tree.




Well said. Now be quiet...you're gonna ruin our image.


----------



## twochains

LOL! Had that unit been thinned properly they might have had some..actually I left...some...LOL! It is going to be put back in pine this Spring I heard. The back half of this place will be peeled 2moro...90% is coming out...0 regen. The piece I started this morning will cut out about 3 or 4 loads an acre...of course I am guessing though. Should be $40,000 in pine coming off of 54 acres, not solid pine...so I'm cutting the oak off of it also.


----------



## treeslayer2003

very nice Clinton, I like what ya did on that first pine. nice sticks, little taper.
I have to go skin a couple deer, catch y'all later.


----------



## twochains

Ok fine...here ya go Husk. Dude I couldn't reach my far corner from how high I was cutting...and my short bar...the cut looks like I been smoking crack er something...but since you're bored.


----------



## HuskStihl

twochains said:


> Ok fine...here ya go Husk. Dude I couldn't reach my far corner from how high I was cutting...and my short bar...the cut looks like I been smoking crack er something...but since you're bored.



Bet u'r arms were tired after that!


----------



## Metals406

twochains said:


> Ok fine...here ya go Husk. Dude I couldn't reach my far corner from how high I was cutting...and my short bar...the cut looks like I been smoking crack er something...but since you're bored.




Jon, this shows what I was saying earlier. He changed his gun while trying to clean up a miss. Sometimes that doesn't matter much, other times, it'll really bite you in the nuts.


----------



## Gologit

Since we're posting screw-up pictures here's one that might make Jon feel better. I had to high-stump this P-pine due to it growing in the V of two historic rock walls. It was a heavy leaner and had a lot of head lean.

Mistake #1 was too small of a face.
Mistake #2 was not using a Coos Bay or boring the tree. It was the last tree of the day and I was tired and in a hurry...and that's no excuse.
Mistake#3 was chasing the hinge as far as I did. By all rights that tree should have 'chaired.

I watch this little video every once in awhile...just to remind myself.


----------



## twochains

What was the wall Bob?


----------



## Gologit

It was a hand built rock wall on an old gold mining site. It was probably built by Chinese or Cornish laborers somewhere in the 1850s. When things were slow in the mines they'd often put the men to work building rock walls and fences rather than lay them off.
They were used as property line markers or just to fence in small livestock. They're real common around here but a lot of them were destroyed over the years by landowners and developers after the gold rush.
People have finally realized the historical importance and artistic value of those walls and they take better care of them now. The pine I cut in the video was causing root disturbance to the walls and it had to go.


----------



## treeslayer2003

thanks for that Bob, I love historical facts. it is a shame people don't care to save that stuff or at least record what it was. sounds like it getting better there, lets just hope they realize they can save things without going to extremes.


----------



## Rounder

HuskStihl said:


> I actually found a video of one I walked away from calmly. Probably because I was either 1) so tired from smacking wedges that I didn't have the energy to run, or 2) so disgusted with my inability to match cuts, necessitating an unwanted block face that I just didn't care anymore....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Belongs more in the homeowner helpers forum




In all honesty, no one really gives a **** what your cuts look like (except OSHA), as long as the ****ing tree is on the ****ing ground- in the lead. Avoid fiber pull. And don't make bad logs. I try to be perfect, but that's not the end game...wood on the ground in front of yarders is (and I do adjust accordingly) -don't beat yourself up over it, and thanks for sharing.


----------



## twochains

Gologit said:


> It was a hand built rock wall on an old gold mining site. It was probably built by Chinese or Cornish laborers somewhere in the 1850s. When things were slow in the mines they'd often put the men to work building rock walls and fences rather than lay them off.
> They were used as property line markers or just to fence in small livestock. They're real common around here but a lot of them were destroyed over the years by landowners and developers after the gold rush.
> People have finally realized the historical importance and artistic value of those walls and they take better care of them now. The pine I cut in the video was causing root disturbance to the walls and it had to go.



Thanks Bob. I am cutting a large tract I have been calling the "Pumpkin Patch", and it is riddled with walls. There is one wall that I have to get pics of, some of the rocks are as big a car hoods. A 95 year old woman raised on the property said her parents didn't even know who built it. Thanks!


----------



## paccity




----------



## paccity




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## paccity




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## paccity




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## twochains

Pac, I've asked this question before but...how does your saw not catch on fire when cutting ...in fire? Do they use saws with metal tanks?? What about them sucking air at that temperature into the motor? Awesome pics! I wish I could see moss like that!


----------



## Metals406

Rounder said:


> In all honesty, no one really gives a **** what your cuts look like (except OSHA), as long as the ****ing tree is on the ****ing ground- in the lead. Avoid fiber pull. And don't make bad logs. I try to be perfect, but that's not the end game...wood on the ground in front of yarders is (and I do adjust accordingly) -don't beat yourself up over it, and thanks for sharing.



If that ain't the truth! I'm so stump anal -- I'd go hungry buselin'. Hahaha

I pride myself in being a "full hinge faller". The realities are, you need the tree on the ground fast (says the boss) -- and that's where we got stump jumpin' and slicken'em off the stump.

A fast saw, a sharp chain, and not following the 'rules' of falling -- can make you a lot of money. . . Or a lot of dead.

I had a fir, like Bob's pine, last winter -- I shallow faced it and stopped cut'n. It stalled and made a snapping noise. It went over but it was split along my hinge 2' up the tree. How it didn't full-on chair. . . I don't know.

If a guy is gonna do a small to nonexistent face, ya better be prepared to chase it all the way off!

Sent using two cans and a string.


----------



## Metals406

twochains said:


> Pac, I've asked this question before but...how does your saw not catch on fire when cutting ...in fire? Do they use saws with metal tanks?? What about them sucking air at that temperature into the motor? Awesome pics! I wish I could see moss like that!



Depends on a lot of factors. How much air the fire gets, and how fast. Is your exhaust fanning the fire, etc.

Thus, that's an area where longer iron shines!

Sent using two cans and a string.


----------



## paccity

twochains said:


> Pac, I've asked this question before but...how does your saw not catch on fire when cutting ...in fire? Do they use saws with metal tanks?? What about them sucking air at that temperature into the motor? Awesome pics! I wish I could see moss like that!


you are not spending a lot of time in the cut stick it and trip it.


----------



## twochains

I bet they make a like a howling sound huh? 

Hey metals406, who on here posted those pics of those stump candles? Like one was cut into in a pattern with a saw ans lit in the middle? What were they called, I want to see another example of one. I founds some fat lighter stumps I want to use.


----------



## paccity

scandahovian candles. just rip it in to a pie cuts and stop an inch or two from the bottom.


----------



## Rounder

Metals406 said:


> If that ain't the truth! I'm so stump anal -- I'd go hungry buselin'. Hahaha
> 
> I pride myself in being a "full hinge faller". The realities are, you need the tree on the ground fast (says the boss) -- and that's where we got stump jumpin' and slicken'em off the stump.
> 
> A fast saw, a sharp chain, and not following the 'rules' of falling -- can make you a lot of money. . . Or a lot of dead.
> 
> I had a fir, like Bob's pine, last winter -- I shallow faced it and stopped cut'n. It stalled and made a snapping noise. It went over but it was split along my hinge 2' up the tree. How it didn't full-on chair. . . I don't know.
> 
> If a guy is gonna do a small to nonexistent face, ya better be prepared to chase it all the way off!
> 
> Sent using two cans and a string.


 
I guess there's just a happy medium.....I've learned to let less than perfect go...If I know it will do the job. A 2 footer is a different deal than a 5 footer. That said, sometimes a kerf face till the weight shifts can make quick work of a stick. 

My point being, don't agonize over perfection when the timber doesn't demand it....When it does, show some respect.

Take care - Sam


----------



## HuskStihl

Gologit said:


> Since we're posting screw-up pictures here's one that might make Jon feel better. I had to high-stump this P-pine due to it growing in the V of two historic rock walls. It was a heavy leaner and had a lot of head lean.
> 
> Mistake #1 was too small of a face.
> Mistake #2 was not using a Coos Bay or boring the tree. It was the last tree of the day and I was tired and in a hurry...and that's no excuse.
> Mistake#3 was chasing the hinge as far as I did. By all rights that tree should have 'chaired.
> 
> I watch this little video every once in awhile...just to remind myself.



That didn't make me feel any better at all! If you hadn't told me there was something wrong I'da never known it from the video


paccity said:


> View attachment 320506



My diagnosis: either a bad oiler or a dull chain


----------



## HuskStihl

Rounder said:


> I guess there's just a happy medium.....I've learned to let less than perfect go...If I know it will do the job. A 2 footer is a different deal than a 5 footer. That said, sometimes a kerf face till the weight shifts can make quick work of a stick.
> 
> My point being, don't agonize over perfection when the timber doesn't demand it....When it does, show some respect.
> 
> Take care - Sam


Great post for me. I'm not and will never be a faller. Honestly I'm just a guy who cuts down trees from time to time, and for some reason feels the need to have pro equipment and hang out online with loggers. My wife thinks this is more than a little weird, but I could be falling the trees with a wild thing and hanging out in the chainsaw forum, which would be worse. As long as I have you guys to keep me from offering too much dangerous advice to others based upon my book knowledge


----------



## Samlock

twochains said:


> Ok fine...here ya go Husk. Dude I couldn't reach my far corner from how high I was cutting...and my short bar...the cut looks like I been smoking crack er something...but since you're bored.




When you're stumping below the knee line from day to day, cutting it shoulder high isn't that simple.

Try to throttle with your thumb, when cutting horizontal. Your right wrist and elbow will thank you later.


----------



## Samlock

HuskStihl said:


> Great post for me. I'm not and will never be a faller. Honestly I'm just a guy who cuts down trees from time to time, and for some reason feels the need to have pro equipment and hang out online with loggers. My wife thinks this is more than a little weird, but I could be falling the trees with a wild thing and hanging out in the chainsaw forum, which would be worse. As long as I have you guys to keep me from offering too much dangerous advice to others based upon my book knowledge



I can think of a bundle of far more weird, expensive and potentially unhealthy manly mid life hobbies than timber falling. And once you're into it, there's nothing wrong doing it properly.

You're ok Jon.


----------



## Gologit

Samlock said:


> I can think of a bundle of far more weird, expensive and potentially unhealthy manly mid life hobbies than timber falling. And once you're into it, there's nothing wrong doing it properly.
> 
> You're ok Jon.


 


Yup.


----------



## HuskStihl

Metals406 said:


> If that ain't the truth! I'm so stump anal -- I'd go hungry buselin'. Hahaha
> 
> I pride myself in being a "full hinge faller". The realities are, you need the tree on the ground fast (says the boss) -- and that's where we got stump jumpin' and slicken'em off the stump.
> 
> A fast saw, a sharp chain, and not following the 'rules' of falling -- can make you a lot of money. . . Or a lot of dead.
> 
> I had a fir, like Bob's pine, last winter -- I shallow faced it and stopped cut'n. It stalled and made a snapping noise. It went over but it was split along my hinge 2' up the tree. How it didn't full-on chair. . . I don't know.
> 
> If a guy is gonna do a small to nonexistent face, ya better be prepared to chase it all the way off!
> 
> Sent using two cans and a string.


And all this time I thought you were just a falling dawg salesman!


----------



## paccity

HuskStihl said:


> And all this time I thought you were just a falling dawg salesman!


he will sell ya anything. what you need. lolol.


----------



## Metals406

I'm like Radar from M.A.S.H! Hahaha

Sent using two cans and a string.


----------



## twochains

Here is one from today. I was working a bluff line at the top of some fairly steep ground. This oak was back leaned up the hill, I had a very large potential for kick back and a perfect shot helped out here! ...Not to mention I was cutting with my boss. I'm uploading another video fro today of a large white oak grown up against a bluff shelter...I actualy was in the shelter putting my gun in...uploading now.


----------



## bitzer

Hey Clint- This is how you put a face in when its eye level or higher. From underneath. My saw is 4ft long for reference and no I did not stand on anything! I'm 5' 10". Triple stump from the swamps a few months ago. I did a bout ten of these a day along with the rest of my cutting. It sure makes a guy get creative. Back-barring from the goofy side over yer head, all kinds of saw juggling. Typically I was limbing and bucking 50 sawtimber trees a day in there, plus the pulp in the tops and pulp trees.


----------



## bitzer

Sam- nice pics from a while back! 50mbf/ acre sounds ****in awesome!

Samlock-good lookin videos! I cut a few big paper birch on a steep hillside in the snow last week. Birch sawtimber is a rarity for me.

Jon- In the video where you were wrestling the saw you have the right idea. I don't usually start right in the corner of my gunning cut when I put in my diagonal cut. Its usually about a quarter away into the face if you get my meaning. Then I work my way over to the far corner and saw my way back. The gunning cut I start on my far corner and work my way back to where I want it. You just need bigger dogs on that saw and let er run a little on her own! Looks like the saw is running you a little.


----------



## bitzer

ColtonT- If I ever see trees marked like that my rule is paint on one of em, cut em all. Unless its sawtimber and the other tree(s) in the clump are really nice. Then I might leave it. On the other hand when one is cut off of a clump it kind of creates a risk for the other trees. Really they should mark em all or leave em. The soft maple swamp I cut in October was a nightmare of multiple stem pulp and sawtimber. Every other tree seemed to be a hydra.


----------



## HuskStihl

twochains said:


> Here is one from today. I was working a bluff line at the top of some fairly steep ground. This oak was back leaned up the hill, I had a very large potential for kick back and a perfect shot helped out here! ...Not to mention I was cutting with my boss. I'm uploading another video fro today of a large white oak grown up against a bluff shelter...I actualy was in the shelter putting my gun in...uploading now.



That looked to go right where you wanted it! Every video of yours I see I'm like "no way he's gonna fit a Humboldt in there" and every time I'm wrong. Nice timber cheers (I miss that emoticon)


----------



## HuskStihl

bitzer said:


> Sam- nice pics from a while back! 50mbf/ acre sounds ****in awesome!
> 
> Samlock-good lookin videos! I cut a few big paper birch on a steep hillside in the snow last week. Birch sawtimber is a rarity for me.
> 
> Jon- In the video where you were wrestling the saw you have the right idea. I don't usually start right in the corner of my gunning cut when I put in my diagonal cut. Its usually about a quarter away into the face if you get my meaning. Then I work my way over to the far corner and saw my way back. The gunning cut I start on my far corner and work my way back to where I want it. You just need bigger dogs on that saw and let er run a little on her own! Looks like the saw is running you a little.


I really just want to stop looking like I'm taking a dump every time I'm putting in a face.




I have fixed my half-wrap small dawg problem thx to Nate, watsonR, spike60, and eBay.


----------



## HuskStihl

bitzer said:


> View attachment 320662
> 
> View attachment 320663
> 
> 
> Hey Clint- This is how you put a face in when its eye level or higher. From underneath. My saw is 4ft long for reference and no I did not stand on anything! I'm 5' 10". Triple stump from the swamps a few months ago. I did a bout ten of these a day along with the rest of my cutting. It sure makes a guy get creative. Back-barring from the goofy side over yer head, all kinds of saw juggling. Typically I was limbing and bucking 50 sawtimber trees a day in there, plus the pulp in the tops and pulp trees.


That looks skillful


----------



## twochains

bitzer said:


> View attachment 320662
> 
> View attachment 320663
> 
> 
> Hey Clint- This is how you put a face in when its eye level or higher. From underneath. My saw is 4ft long for reference and no I did not stand on anything! I'm 5' 10". Triple stump from the swamps a few months ago. I did a bout ten of these a day along with the rest of my cutting. It sure makes a guy get creative. Back-barring from the goofy side over yer head, all kinds of saw juggling. Typically I was limbing and bucking 50 sawtimber trees a day in there, plus the pulp in the tops and pulp trees.



Looks good bitzer. Also looks like I would have been fine with using my first face I put in instead of going back and putting the conventional in. As far as high stumping at those heights...I would have left that POS if it wasn't a clear cut. I do maybe (3) stumps a year that high. Sounds like you been busy. Awesome, Thanks!


----------



## twochains

This one was growing right up along side of a bluff shelter...my boss was right there watching. LOL!


----------



## treeslayer2003

looks like you in some nice timber there.


----------



## HuskStihl

That's a big, nice looking oak. Always fun to look good with a live audience. I really enjoy the videos, thanks for posting them. I'm thinking about getting Bitz, Rounder, TS and NM some helmet cams for Christmas. I'd be in wannabe fallers hog heaven. I'd prolly also need to send TS his own personal IT guy as well.
Nerd question. Are you sniping the gunning cut to get it off the stump, or just to open the face?
Tech question: Why does that saw sound like it has a valvetrain? Not a bad sound, just different

Medical advice: I hope u'r getting that low with u'r knees and not u'r back


----------



## twochains

HuskStihl said:


> That's a big, nice looking oak. Always fun to look good with a live audience. I really enjoy the videos, thanks for posting them. I'm thinking about getting Bitz, Rounder, TS and NM some helmet cams for Christmas. I'd be in wannabe fallers hog heaven. I'd prolly also need to send TS his own personal IT guy as well.
> Nerd question. Are you sniping the gunning cut to get it off the stump, or just to open the face?
> Tech question: Why does that saw sound like it has a valvetrain? Not a bad sound, just different
> 
> Medical advice: I hope u'r getting that low with u'r knees and not u'r back



Husk, just to be quite honest...I can't even figure out what a gun cut is! LMAO! But I can swing with the snipe if in a certain place in the face, and yes I have been using that to open the face since high stumps would get me fired instantly here. I got tired of those bigger sticks stalling out in the shallow faces...I still use them most of the time but really tall pine and bigger oak...I use the current face. I have also been using siz wheels to swing my pine in the steep ground units lately more than kerf dutchman. I kinda like a siz wheel, but I have to perfect it still, I can pull them but I am not near even 90% success rate yet...I actually lost one today but it was due to too much back sweep. 

As far as my back...probably the only thing I was blessed with is a strong back...I literally have what looks like a 8 pack from mid to lower back. I do use my knees but NEVER "take a knee".

As far as my audience...that was my boss! LOL! We been cutting together on this rough ground for a couple of days. I let him do the radical Water Oaks on steep ground....those things will kill your ass! And quick too! My boss twisted his ankle up there yesterday so I was having to fall my sets and go over and top some of his...the under brush from the big ones was pretty ridiculous. I could walk the logs out but they were usually suspended about 6 to 10' when we side hilled them.

Hey Husk...you're gonna like my new saw I have on the way...no...you're gonna REALLY like it! It's a secret and it's unveiling will be in a video! LOL! Hell RandyMac might actually give me a thumbs up on the saw...who knows


----------



## HuskStihl

Thanks for the 'splanation! I like the 660 just fine! If the stumps have to be that low could you just put the first cut horizontal and flush to the ground and make u'r second, diagonal cut above it? Seems like being bullbucked on the stump height adds another layer of difficulty. Looked like a good day in the woods


----------



## mdavlee

HuskStihl said:


> That's a big, nice looking oak. Always fun to look good with a live audience. I really enjoy the videos, thanks for posting them. I'm thinking about getting Bitz, Rounder, TS and NM some helmet cams for Christmas. I'd be in wannabe fallers hog heaven. I'd prolly also need to send TS his own personal IT guy as well.
> Nerd question. Are you sniping the gunning cut to get it off the stump, or just to open the face?
> Tech question: Why does that saw sound like it has a valvetrain? Not a bad sound, just different
> 
> Medical advice: I hope u'r getting that low with u'r knees and not u'r back



That sounds is from a choked up muffler. The outlet on the newer 660s is only about a 1/2". They used to be 3/4" and a dual port on the front.


----------



## HuskStihl

So is the sound the chain cause the saw is quiet, or is the high pitched whine the sound of the exhaust coming out of the muffler? Sounds like a turbo dohc 4 banger


----------



## mdavlee

HuskStihl said:


> So is the sound the chain cause the saw is quiet, or is the high pitched whine the sound of the exhaust coming out of the muffler? Sounds like a turbo dohc 4 banger



High pitched whine is the muffler.


----------



## twochains

I never did check anymore on my dual port...I gave up after a month, the saw shop never called me saying if it was off back order.

Husk yer right on the 3 cut face..IDK, it's like I go on auto pilot and just do it that way. I never have tried open face in 2 cuts....I think about it sometimes but never end up doing it. I should try it..IDK it's like a mental block er something.


----------



## Trx250r180

Hullo


----------



## Metals406

Hollow

Sent using two cans and a string.


----------



## Trx250r180

Metals406 said:


> Hollow
> 
> Sent using two cans and a string.


Hey Nate ,was in montana over the weekend ,i did not see the doug firs you were telling me about ,are they more east ? i was in the western part of the state ,every tree was a pine there ,some decent sized ones for pine too


----------



## HuskStihl

twochains said:


> I never did check anymore on my dual port...I gave up after a month, the saw shop never called me saying if it was off back order.
> 
> Husk yer right on the 3 cut face..IDK, it's like I go on auto pilot and just do it that way. I never have tried open face in 2 cuts....I think about it sometimes but never end up doing it. I should try it..IDK it's like a mental block er something.


I would give a big husky to be able to fall like you


----------



## HuskStihl

Trx250r180 said:


> Hullo


_The Junk Man cometh....._


----------



## Trx250r180

HuskStihl said:


> _The Junk Man cometh....._


hows that sugi bar working on the big husk ?


----------



## Metals406

Trx250r180 said:


> Hey Nate ,was in montana over the weekend ,i did not see the doug firs you were telling me about ,are they more east ? i was in the western part of the state ,every tree was a pine there ,some decent sized ones for pine too



Sounds like you were too close to Idaho still. That's the pine state. Lol

Or, you were too far south, like Missoula. From Libby east you should have seen billions of DF.

Sent using two cans and a string.


----------



## HuskStihl

Trx250r180 said:


> hows that sugi bar working on the big husk ?


How do you think?

Balances great on the 394. Much like all the other stuff I buy, it didn't make me cut any better


----------



## Metals406

HuskStihl said:


> How do you think?
> 
> Balances great on the 394. Much like all the other stuff I buy, it didn't make me cut any better



Sell yer soul to the Husky devil. . . You'll instantly cut better. :-D

Sent using two cans and a string.


----------



## Trx250r180

HuskStihl said:


> How do you think?
> 
> Balances great on the 394. Much like all the other stuff I buy, it didn't make me cut any better


need to bolt a stihl to it ,then it will cut better


----------



## bitzer

Some pics from a couple of weeks ago. More of a sinking than a falling pic. This was about midway through this mess. Actually had it buried worse later. Finally got it out by hooking chains to each back tire chain and then hooking the other ends to a couple of trees. Walked it right out of there in low gear. Damn near didn't break the suction though.




Any guesses?




A little wrench turning fun.


----------



## twochains

You bucked your log with the nail still stuck init maybe? I always wondered if that could happen! LOL!


----------



## bitzer

twochains said:


> You bucked your log with the nail still stuck init maybe? I always wondered if that could happen! LOL!


Yep! I didn't think it was going to take off like that. It didn't want to come out with a tug and I was too lazy to walk back to it. So I bucked it. It started moving slowly and before I knew it I was running after it! Couldn't catch it though and it tore the tape right off the spool! ****ed it all up internally too. That's what I get for being lazy and in a hurry. A new one for the books for me.


----------



## northmanlogging

was walking one earlier this summer and she rolled on me, wrapped the tape all up, I didn't go down though


----------



## OlympicYJ

> A little wrench turning fun.
> 
> View attachment 321785



That's not fun; just bills going for a trip!

Twochains

Give Madsens a call. They can get you a dualport fast. Google em they will come up. Very reputable saw shop here on the left coast.


----------



## Trx250r180

bitzer said:


> Some pics from a couple of weeks ago. More of a sinking than a falling pic. This was about midway through this mess. Actually had it buried worse later. Finally got it out by hooking chains to each back tire chain and then hooking the other ends to a couple of trees. Walked it right out of there in low gear. Damn near didn't break the suction though.
> 
> View attachment 321783
> 
> 
> Any guesses?
> 
> View attachment 321784
> 
> 
> A little wrench turning fun.
> 
> View attachment 321785




Mud...........


----------



## twochains

Trx250r180 said:


> Mud...........



Yeh...I got some ...mudd...for ya! LOL! No one showed up for work today so I cut a gallon and skid for a bit....mudd! Turn me loose on a skidder....best to keep me on dry ground I think! LULLZ!


----------



## 056 kid

Put me in a machine and pieces will fly! I'll move plenty of wood, but I might forget the belly pan in the woods haha. Thats why I stick to my power saw...


----------



## twochains

056 kid said:


> Put me in a machine and pieces will fly! I'll move plenty of wood, but I might forget the belly pan in the woods haha. Thats why I stick to my power saw...



Yeh man...sounds like me! What the heck are all those guard things for anyway...other than to fly off! LMAO! I saw a engine panel pass me up today! I should just stick to my saw also!

Hey hows that 394 treating you? That's a pretty good dude there Ted!


----------



## 056 kid

Its a good saw, and an excellent dude. Though it makes me wish I was in timber that needed needed a 42" bar, to double side and cut the heart out to reach through! Lots of torque for the big pickles!


----------



## 056 kid

I do miss my 660 greatly though. Im headed out west saturday. Might see if I can hunt down an old co worker who has saws that will spin the clutch when the chain wont go. Now THATS what I call ported!


----------



## mdavlee

Ted I'll have a ported one around Xmas finished up. Been running it stock for a little while and it's ok but gutless compared to the ported 288.


----------



## twochains

056 kid said:


> I do miss my 660 greatly though. Im headed out west saturday. Might see if I can hunt down an old co worker who has saws that will spin the clutch when the chain wont go. Now THATS what I call ported!



Did you land a falling gig out there? Damn that's awesome Ted! I wish I could be riding out there with ya! Good luck to ya and have a safe trip out there! Be safe!


----------



## 056 kid

Na, just going to visit and fish. I hope the dungees are in close!!! Holy chit those things are good. Good muscles on a minus tide. Let the river blow out until late nov, then let it get good and low by sept 1st, (steelhead opener). I know where you live fish!!!! Pink pearl will be your demise!!!!!


----------



## twochains

You flying or driving? If driving you should swing through and hit the trout capital of the World...right down the road from me! Current World record was caught here in Arkansas and the former World record of 38.9#'s was litterally caught 2 miles from my house! Have fun out there Ted!


----------



## 056 kid

Flying, I think I have seen the picture of that fat trout. Looked more like a sunfish for the huge belly.
A chrome steelhead complete with a few sea lice, fresh out of the ocean is an experience though. The fight they posses is absolutely insane. I've had fish jump 10+ times in a matter of seconds. Thats when those crafty bastards spit the hook. Just amazing! If the river has not changed, I know where to hook them just about every drift. And thats hooked on the inside of the mouth..


----------



## twochains

056 kid said:


> Flying, I think I have seen the picture of that fat trout. Looked more like a sunfish for the huge belly.
> A chrome steelhead complete with a few sea lice, fresh out of the ocean is an experience though. The fight they posses is absolutely insane. I've had fish jump 10+ times in a matter of seconds. Thats when those crafty bastards spit the hook. Just amazing! If the river has not changed, I know where to hook them just about every drift. And thats hooked on the inside of the mouth..



Sure Ted.....yep...uh huh! LOL! 

Steelhead...that would be awesome! You a fly fisherman? I got a buddy way up in Wapsi Fly Co...I can send a care package if you tie your own flies. 

Back in '88 my Dad caught a Brooke Trout that broke the World record...only it had been broken already 30 days prior. I think Dad's fish was near 4 or 5 pounds if I remember. Anyway, have fun.


----------



## 056 kid

Im tellin you, they cant resist a pink pearl corky with an anice soaked tuft of pink or white yarn. Now I cant sleep, too jacked up on bent rod and singing drag..


----------



## twochains

You have any Red Horse in your creeks out yer way Ted? When they run here, you tie a red ribbon about 3 ft. up from a big weighted treble and snag 'em. It's perfectly legal to snag trash fish.

What you are using sounds like what we would tie for trout to simulate salmon eggs. Works damn good here also!


----------



## 056 kid

Not sure about the reds. But yea look up lil corkies on the web. There is a vaaaast oray of pretty colors and shapes that drive salmonoids wild!


----------



## mdavlee

In the clinch river we can shoot red horse in the spring along with carp and other rough fish. It's a blast to shoot with a 375 h&H


----------



## twochains

mdavlee said:


> In the clinch river we can shoot red horse in the spring along with carp and other rough fish. It's a blast to shoot with a 375 h&H



That's some funny shat right there! I thought you meant "shoot" as in a bow...you litterally "shoot" them! LMAO!


----------



## twochains

Well, I wanted to have my next video with my bad ass saw, but this will have to d until I can get a 1/2 wrap for it. Anyway this was from Sunday (yesterday) and I was pretty pleased with my lead, most of these trees had to be swung a little to get into lay...a couple were swung pretty far. I was kind of bummed that with the angle of my camera I couldn't show the tops coming around. The 2nd video is just what part of the layout looked like, I shot it this evening. Thanks!


----------



## mdavlee

twochains said:


> That's some funny shat right there! I thought you meant "shoot" as in a bow...you litterally "shoot" them! LMAO!



You usually don't hit them with a bullet but it will knock them out and they float to the top and you net them.


----------



## JakeG

Clint, nice video! I know what you mean about the camera not seeing what you want it to see. 

I like the terrain you have there. It's not flat nor full of brush! A lot of folks down here have the piece brushed before going in, unless it's a hydro ax of course .


----------



## HuskStihl

twochains said:


> Well, I wanted to have my next video with my bad ass saw, but this will have to d until I can get a 1/2 wrap for it. Anyway this was from Sunday (yesterday) and I was pretty pleased with my lead, most of these trees had to be swung a little to get into lay...a couple were swung pretty far. I was kind of bummed that with the angle of my camera I couldn't show the tops coming around. The 2nd video is just what part of the layout looked like, I shot it this evening. Thanks!



Now this is coming from somebody who doesn't know much, but that looked amazing! I could see a bunch of em turning a ton on the stump. U'r the only guy who makes videos, and the other pros prolly lay em out like that too, but still pretty awesome


----------



## twochains

mdavlee said:


> You usually don't hit them with a bullet but it will knock them out and they float to the top and you net them.



Hey have you tried rat shot?? LOL! When I was little and mean as a snake, we would through out fish pellets and shoot when we saw noses! LOL!


----------



## twochains

JakeG said:


> Clint, nice video! I know what you mean about the camera not seeing what you want it to see.
> 
> I like the terrain you have there. It's not flat nor full of brush! A lot of folks down here have the piece brushed before going in, unless it's a hydro ax of course .



Thanks Jake! Yeh that is the "bowl" I have been working, it's pretty steep on the far side, nice and clear though! The rest of the steep ground is really rocky. Thanks though! Hope your doing well Jake...ain't heard much out of ya lately. Stay safe man!


----------



## twochains

HuskStihl said:


> Now this is coming from somebody who doesn't know much, but that looked amazing! I could see a bunch of em turning a ton on the stump. U'r the only guy who makes videos, and the other pros prolly lay em out like that too, but still pretty awesome



Thanks Jon! I sincerely appreciate your compliments! Thanks man! I just wish it was shot using my bad ass saw! DAMN that dude cuts!


----------



## Trx250r180

twochains said:


> Well, I wanted to have my next video with my bad ass saw, but this will have to d until I can get a 1/2 wrap for it. Anyway this was from Sunday (yesterday) and I was pretty pleased with my lead, most of these trees had to be swung a little to get into lay...a couple were swung pretty far. I was kind of bummed that with the angle of my camera I couldn't show the tops coming around. The 2nd video is just what part of the layout looked like, I shot it this evening. Thanks!





Bare handed in the snow......you are one tough sumbish ...........


----------



## 056 kid

mdavlee said:


> In the clinch river we can shoot red horse in the spring along with carp and other rough fish. It's a blast to shoot with a 375 h&H



Just dont kill the good ones. Or we might have to start calling you hillbilly!


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## Metals406

Looked like a fun little set Clint!

Sent from my Bic RaZor


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## coltont

Since were talking about killing stuff.....this was a victim of the log truck this morning.....hit in the center of the truck didn't grind it up to bad!






Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk


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## coltont

Getting ready to kill a nice white oak.





Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk


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## treeslayer2003

colton, you in southern pa?


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## coltont

I'm in Blair county

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk


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## twochains

Ported 288 XP in yellow pine


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## JakeG

Damn she's runnin good! Looks hungry.. I didn't notice but is the wrap handle still on it?


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## twochains

Yeh it's still on there. I guess I will keep it on there, as long as I don't turn it over for the back cut I can still stay sort of low on the stump. I have been bored this morning watching vids of ported 288's and I'm pretty sure that with a better chain I would put this saw up against any of them...oak or pine...bring it! LOL!


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## HuskStihl

That is a sweet sounding saw. Hope you have your ear plugs!
With a better chain and an 8 pin it'll fly thru that stuff. Never thought you were slow to begin with, tho


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## Metals406

Clint. . . You have taken the orange pill. . . There is no going back now.


To stock saws. :-D

Sent using a miniature supercomputer.


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## treeslayer2003

coltont said:


> I'm in Blair county
> 
> Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk


 lol, I don't know were that is bro. reason I asked is most the northern guys more exited bout red oak than white. here white is king. you got any tulip poplar there?


----------



## coltont

Man white oak is king here Blair county is kinda central pa..........red oak is good but won't hold a candle to a white oak.....lots of tulip poplar big stuff too poplar is paying 70 cents a thousand for nice stuff heck they are even buying poplar veneer....has to be 9 inches of white on all sides around the heart

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk


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## treeslayer2003

coltont said:


> Man white oak is king here Blair county is kinda central pa..........red oak is good but won't hold a candle to a white oak.....lots of tulip poplar big stuff too poplar is paying 70 cents a thousand for nice stuff heck they are even buying poplar veneer....has to be 9 inches of white on all sides around the heart
> 
> Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk


 that's good, I can get 600 for poplar but they let a lot go lately. about any white oak over 13" starts at 500 with knots.
red is looking up recently too and that's a good thing, i'll take a raise any time I can get it lol. once in a while we get a call for sweet gum, got to have small hart.


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## coltont

Decent poplar and sugar maple









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## treeslayer2003

that's a decent one. no good maple here. man I lost most my pics here when the hack happened.....lemme see what I got.


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## treeslayer2003

crap, I guess I don't know how to post pics on this new deal.


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## coltont

treeslayer2003 said:


> that's good, I can get 600 for poplar but they let a lot go lately. about any white oak over 13" starts at 500 with knots.
> red is looking up recently too and that's a good thing, i'll take a raise any time I can get it lol. once in a while we get a call for sweet gum, got to have small hart.


 We have a real good market for rustic white oak........rough knotty sweep they don't care no sweet gum here we cut pretty much 5 days a week in the woods with a day here or there doing residential removals like this





Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk


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## coltont

Urban logging and an whoopsie daisy skidder operator got pissed at the elm and got a little too tough with it








Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk


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## HuskStihl

treeslayer2003 said:


> crap, I guess I don't know how to post pics on this new deal.


It won't take over 4 MB's other than that it's pretty simple


----------



## twochains




----------



## Metals406

twochains said:


>




I can see you hate that new saw. 

Quite a while ago, I started double-bucking my limbs. About 1'-2' out & again at the collar. A quick one-two motion.

You might say that's too many cuts -- but a guy double cuts limbs or tripple cuts them more often then not, without thinking about it.

Best part about my system (& why I started doing it), is not getting pinched. Also, the majority of the limb falls away from the tree -- no bending down to throw it away. It's not 100% -- but werks pretty dern good.

Murry Chrispman Clint!


----------



## twochains

Ha! Merry Christmas ~N8! LOL! Yeh, I do the double buck on belly limbs, call me weird but I try not to double buck in frozen timber...the limbs don't shatter so bad close to the log. I get pinched some though...you can tell by all my videos, tips don't keep paint too long around me! LOL! Hey that 372 needs some dawgs do you have any?


----------



## Metals406

twochains said:


> Ha! Merry Christmas ~N8! LOL! Yeh, I do the double buck on belly limbs, call me weird but I try not to double buck in frozen timber...the limbs don't shatter so bad close to the log. I get pinched some though...you can tell by all my videos, tips don't keep paint too long around me! LOL! Hey that 372 needs some dawgs do you have any?



Won't have any until after the first of the year.


----------



## HuskStihl

So what's the story with the 372? You have like 14 saws now!


----------



## twochains

I'm gettin' me a bushelling kit gathered up! LOL! IDK, boss got the saw when he bought a skidder and a loader the other day and he doesn't like Husky's really....except for my 288 XP...he fricken LOVES that saw! Yeh, I'm getting a good line up...288 XP, 372 XP, and the 575 XP....now I just need a phone call. In the mean time I will keep hustleing until someone realizes I can make them a bunch of money and whisks me away! LMAO!


----------



## jwilly

Sort of like our line up - 2054 turbo, 670 super, 272xp, 372xp (x2) and a 385xp. 2054 gets used for brushing the truck road and cleaning up slash along the skid trail. My son did use it for felling some smaller (16") pine and was impressed how it cut.

My favorite is the 670 Jred, my son loves the 372 for felling and my grandson likes the sound of the 385 but will grab whatever is sharp and full of fuel.


----------



## bitzer

Some pics from the current job. Some nice size red and white oak. Old timber though. Buttin off 4-6 ft every other tree. The height is makin up for it though. 

One of the nicer bur oaks I've cut in a long time. 4 10s in it.



The average size of timber in here. Its an old stand. Shoulda been cut 15-20 years ago.




I'll bet this bunk was pushing 1500 bf.




Pulled a real nice butt log out of Icepick's strip so I hopped out and snapped a pic of the stump. Pretty clean. Probably 30 inches across the hinge or so.



A good sized coon lookin to re-locate. He wasn't too thrilled when I dumped his house.


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## raycarr

WTF? Been awhile since I dropped in. Probably pointless to look for Uncle Randy here, oh well.


----------



## mdavlee

raycarr said:


> WTF? Been awhile since I dropped in. Probably pointless to look for Uncle Randy here, oh well.



Most have moved on to other places now.


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## treeslayer2003

nice wood bitzer. looks like what I was cutting last summer. not much pulp to those huh?
icepics stump looks good.


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## HuskStihl

Great stuff as always Bitz, good on'ya for including IP's pristine stump. 
I don't know where the loggers are, not seeing much from Sam (either one), 056, Hammer, old timer, NM and the rest of the production guys recently. Gonna have to pick a new profession to idolize and a new place to live vicariously through pretty soon. I'm thinking maybe Alaskan crab fishing, I don't know anything about it, but that never stopped me here!


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## northmanlogging

relax husk, most everyone is off for the holidaze... I've been in some ho hum hemlock and alder the last few weeks, when I'm not road building. Got some good sized doug fir and ceder coming up in the next few weeks, then I can justify embarrassing myself with video.

I did take out a bear trap snag Friday, with the bear trap 50' up it... that one damned near got me... The snag busted into 3-4 pieces on the way down and the widow maker landed where I was standing... Took me 5 minutes to find my trusty old wedge pounder, on account of my panicked running and screaming, turns out I threw it like 30' away.


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## northmanlogging

Oh and chaired an alder yesterday....


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## HuskStihl

I do like me some runnin' n' screamin'!


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## Metals406

northmanlogging said:


> Oh and chaired an alder yesterday....


Unfortunately, that can be all too easy in Alder.

Was it a leaner?


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## slowp

Metals406 said:


> Unfortunately, that can be all too easy in Alder.
> 
> Was it a leaner?


 
And was the temperature below freezing? I have a theory that alder will "pop" quicker during cold temps.


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## HuskStihl

slowp said:


> And was the temperature below freezing? I have a theory that alder will "pop" quicker during cold temps.


Guys, he prolly did it for the sound!


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## slowp

HuskStihl said:


> Guys, he prolly did it for the sound!


 I don't think so. Alder is a scary tree because of its tendency to barber chair. From what I understand, a deeper face cut is a good thing for alder. I've got a few smaller ones to kill but I'm waiting for warmer temps.


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## HuskStihl

slowp said:


> I don't think so. Alder is a scary tree because of its tendency to barber chair. From what I understand, a deeper face cut is a good thing for alder. I've got a few smaller ones to kill but I'm waiting for warmer temps.


Ms. P, I was just joking, only RandyMac chairs trees just for the sound!


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## 1270d

I know you left coasters look down pretty hard at boring, but wouldn't it work well on your alder?


----------



## bitzer

Thanks Mike and Jon! Yeah there is about one pulp stick per top. If that. I'm trying to perfect busting the **** out of the top so I can't take any pulp out of it, yet saving out the last log.

Honestly I'd love to cut one of yer big bad alders of the pnw! Can't imagine it chairs any easier than hickory or white oak.

Timber absolutely behaves differently at colder temps. The wood breaks off more easily for sure.


----------



## slowp

1270d said:


> I know you left coasters look down pretty hard at boring, but wouldn't it work well on your alder?


 
It did on the ONE that I tried it on. I'm not a faller and was merely clearing that snow bent stuff. I found I could do a Coos Bay on the smaller stuff which also worked the very few times. I know this is controversial, but a long bar is a good thing at such times.

I believe Cedar Kerf enlightened me to the necessity of making a deeper face cut in alder. It is our soft hardwood.


----------



## northmanlogging

Steep and deep with alder, 

I've tried both the coos and swedish stump dance, the coos works 90% of the time, and when they do chair its usually just a little split a few feet up. 

With bore cutting, you have to leave to much hold/hinge wood, otherwise the damn things crush it and pinch your bar, then that razor sharp wedge beater of mine comes into play, but since you have to leave so much hold wood, you run the risk of chairing the bastard anyway. 

Alders pretty much all lean hard, and a cub scout can split it with a sharp hatchet... They can be most entertaining.


----------



## IcePick

treeslayer2003 said:


> nice wood bitzer. looks like what I was cutting last summer. not much pulp to those huh?
> icepics stump looks good.


Yeah, that was kind of him to pick a nice one. For every good one there's a questionable one. I'm less hard on myself for ugly stumps now. I'd rather have an ugly one that falls properly than a nice one that is off and smashes some nice saplings.


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## HuskStihl

IP if I ever make a stump that nice, and mind you I'm not holding my breath, I'm gonna flush cut it, take it home, and varnish the sucker! By next summer I'm betting your stumps will mostly all look like that


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## treeslayer2003

IcePick said:


> Yeah, that was kind of him to pick a nice one. For every good one there's a questionable one. I'm less hard on myself for ugly stumps now. I'd rather have an ugly one that falls properly than a nice one that is off and smashes some nice saplings.


 that's right IP. besides it the log you want not the stump lol.


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## twochains




----------



## treeslayer2003

you like that punkin saw huh? lol. pretty old pine for there huh? are the old ones down there normally star hearted or just this one? nice swing, I see your style evolving. mine did too.


----------



## twochains

I figure the heart looked like that from whatever was wrong with the uphill side of the tree. IDK though, IDK how to judge age, if I was judging age by size I would think it was middle of the road. The biggest I have cut off this place was 3ft +. My boss tried to buy this timber 25 years ago and he said it hasn't grown much since then. The stumps here are cross cut but I wouldn't really call this set all that old. Dang Mike, I haven't really ever payed any attention to the hearts...what can you tell me about what you saw?


----------



## treeslayer2003

I was thinkin lightening cuz it looked to be hard. here we can get red heart in old ones or in real wet ground but they be softer in the heart. I have seen star heart that is hard in trees that otherwise look good on the outside.......now where are the forresters?


----------



## Metals406

Hey Clint. . . Next time on that swing (on the backcut)-- saw the far side up more first & leave more on the near side. What it does, is let's the tree start to settle into the kerf -- & that's what initiates your swing. Ya gotta be quick though, cause as it rolls it can sit on your bar. And you need to keep sawing the near side to keep the momentum going. You can soften it up with a couple extra kerfs below your first one on that far side too.
Hope this makes sense. LOL


----------



## twochains

Metals406 said:


> Hey Clint. . . Next time on that swing (on the backcut)-- saw the far side up more first & leave more on the near side. What it does, is let's the tree start to settle into the kerf -- & that's what initiates your swing. Ya gotta be quick though, cause as it rolls it can sit on your bar. And you need to keep sawing the near side to keep the momentum going. You can soften it up with a couple extra kerfs below your first one on that far side too.
> Hope this makes sense. LOL



Yep! That makes sense! Thanks N8! Yeh if I set up a kerf Dutchman I don't cut that heavy side so it comes in a crushes the kerfs. It's just a different cut I picked up from my boss, been working on it a few days to get it just right. I like the kerf Dutchman just fine and use it pretty regularly.

Hey it's the new year....ya got ne dawgs N8??? I want some for the 372 pretty bad, those stock ones are worse than the Stihl short dawg. Soot me a price on those flames! LOL!


----------



## Metals406

Werking on a few, including fixing the bugs on the 372 ones. 

Hopefully be cut soon.


----------



## HuskStihl

Well, you must be doing pretty much everything right, cause I would have left the holding wood on the pull side and started the back cut on the far side. If you have reached the point where you are doing the opposite of what I would have done, you are really getting somewhere!

Great looking fall and awesome video. Thanks TC, keep 'em coming!


----------



## Deleted member 110241

First job in 2014:


----------



## JakeG

Looks good Markus... Is that a 390xp? I'm almost wishing I would have bought one of those instead of the 372. ...Almost


----------



## Deleted member 110241

Yes it is a 390XP. I haven't tried it yet but it sounds mean 
I'm the groundcrew on these jobs but I plan on climbing some day, when I'm ready to use a chain saw safely up there...


----------



## 056 kid

Metals406 said:


> Hey Clint. . . Next time on that swing (on the backcut)-- saw the far side up more first & leave more on the near side. What it does, is let's the tree start to settle into the kerf -- & that's what initiates your swing. Ya gotta be quick though, cause as it rolls it can sit on your bar. And you need to keep sawing the near side to keep the momentum going. You can soften it up with a couple extra kerfs below your first one on that far side too.
> Hope this makes sense. LOL



I much prefer to get the stick started from the face, cutting on the comp side until the tree starts to sit. Throttle out to open the kerf a a hair and hit the back on the pull side and bring it around. Thia technique will put em in motion where your description often gets them stalled out, on your bar haha. Sometimes I cut so much out of the face, there is only a strip of wood behind the pull side, thats like 145 degree turn status!


----------



## Metals406

You can get sat on that way too. Lol

100 ways to skin a cat. ;-)


----------



## 056 kid

No doubt. Now if we could only get Clint to see the value in a good clean opened up face!!


----------



## HuskStihl

056 kid said:


> No doubt. Now if we could only get Clint to see the value in a good clean opened up face!!



Clint isn't a farmer, firewood guy, or weekend warrior. He is a full time, professional faller who cuts 6 days a week and has survived several cutbacks and personnel changes on his job. He puts loads of trees right where he wants them every day. 
Logging is a weird field if it's cool to bag on a successful fellow pro's technique in a public forum


----------



## treeslayer2003

easy Jon, I don't think anyone is knockin ol Clint, just observing.


----------



## HuskStihl

treeslayer2003 said:


> easy Jon, I don't think anyone is knockin ol Clint, just observing.


He just seems to receive more observations than most. This one didn't seem mean spirited, but a lot of them have. He's prolly dropping trees as we "speak". If he were some random guy posting a video on YouTube I'd feel differently, but he's our friend, takes great pride in his work, and deserves better. Now, offering advice like "try swinging from the face" or "soft-dutching the far side might help" seem well intentioned, but the "he needs a bigger face" and "that back-barring will wear you out" don't (and if I can tell the difference, I know y'all can too). He won't be happy I'm takin up for him, but I know how he feels about this stuff, so I will continue to do so


----------



## northmanlogging

I don't know man. Seems like we're all a little hard on each other, but that's what makes us better cutters and loggers. I've done some stupid **** and been called on it, and I'm grateful for it. 

That and I'm pretty sure most of us are not real good at talking to people in the real world, so spitting it out and possibly offending someone is just business as usual, as regrettable as it is.

For me I tend to mumble... a lot... or holler and yell, no real middle ground, so either people keep saying what, or start fighting/crying depending on personal fortitude... So it goes from hey you maybe wanna grab that there gods damned axe thingy and come over here, To Grab the ****ing axe and get yer ass over here! all leading to some serious misunderstandings.


----------



## slowp

There is mumbling, which we foresters are famous for doing, mostly when mumbling to ourselves, and THERE IS THE LANDING VOICE. I've been to training where the speaker couldn't be heard and somebody would yell, USE YOUR LANDING VOICE!


----------



## slowp

northmanlogging said:


> I don't know man. Seems like we're all a little hard on each other, but that's what makes us better cutters and loggers. I've done some stupid **** and been called on it, and I'm grateful for it.
> 
> That and I'm pretty sure most of us are not real good at talking to people in the real world, so spitting it out and possibly offending someone is just business as usual, as regrettable as it is.
> 
> For me I tend to mumble... a lot... or holler and yell, no real middle ground, so either people keep saying what, or start fighting/crying depending on personal fortitude... So it goes from hey you maybe wanna grab that there gods damned axe thingy and come over here, To Grab the ****ing axe and get yer ass over here! all leading to some serious misunderstandings.


 
That happened to me once. I was all done up in typical rain gear and somebody on the rigging crew yelled up in that style about bringing down the ******** saw and ******* hurry up. I looked around, there was nobody else, so I picked up their saw and brought it down. They recognized who it was and got kind of embarassed and spluttery and apologizing and I just laughed. It was funny. I don't know where the guy I was supposed to be was. But they got their saw.


----------



## northmanlogging

Ah yes... the landing voice... only problem with that is people from down your way would be bringing me axes and wedges... I can be loud when I need to be, very loud...


----------



## Metals406

I try not to yell. . . ever. The whole more flies and honey thing.

Plus, I don't like getting yelled at -- makes me want to punch faces and stuff.


----------



## 056 kid

HuskStihl said:


> Clint isn't a farmer, firewood guy, or weekend warrior. He is a full time, professional faller who cuts 6 days a week and has survived several cutbacks and personnel changes on his job. He puts loads of trees right where he wants them every day.
> Logging is a weird field if it's cool to bag on a successful fellow pro's technique in a public forum



This is not the chainsaw form Jon. Bagging would be more like, "your technique sucks and your a dangerous cutter". No one has spoken to Clint that way thus far, and I doubt anyone will. Do I know people who would, you bet. I know people who would say the same about some of my techniques. There's a whole lot to learn in the logging woods, for all of us, & there's really no room for tending to someones feelings..


----------



## treeslayer2003

056 kid said:


> There's a whole lot to learn in the logging woods, for all of us.


 well yeah, that right there is the truth. I think when the day comes we think we know it all, then it time to quit.


----------



## HuskStihl

056 kid said:


> Bagging would be more like, "your technique sucks and your a dangerous cutter". No one has spoken to Clint that way thus far, and I doubt anyone will.



Well, there is this one guy who talks to him like that, and he's why I opened my big mouth. I obviously don't understand loggers, and I'll (finally) shut my trap


----------



## twochains

Oh crap...how did I get into this! LMAO! Jon...me and 056 kid are tight! LOL! He ain't baggin on me...LOL! 

Hey 056 Kid, how did your fishing trip go? Did ya fill yer freezer?


----------



## twochains

HuskStihl said:


> Well, there is this one guy who talks to him like that, and he's why I opened my big mouth. I obviously don't understand loggers, and I'll (finally) shut my trap



Yer fine Jon! Thanks for looking out for me but if 056 kid was gonna bag on me he'd be worse on me than that! LOL! Don't shut yer trap...LOL!


----------



## treeslayer2003

I know Jon, and I hate that it is that way. like you I ain't sayin no more on that.


----------



## twochains

HuskStihl said:


> Clint isn't a farmer, firewood guy, or weekend warrior. He is a full time, professional faller who cuts 6 days a week and has survived several cutbacks and personnel changes on his job. He puts loads of trees right where he wants them every day.
> Logging is a weird field if it's cool to bag on a successful fellow pro's technique in a public forum



Hey...easy on that word "PRO"....pftt...I'm just hungry...lmao!


----------



## Metals406

HuskStihl said:


> Well, there is this one guy who talks to him like that, and he's why I opened my big mouth. I obviously don't understand loggers, and I'll (finally) shut my trap



Yeah. . . Don't shut it. . . You got a purdy mouth. *banjo music starts*


----------



## schmuck.k

Two chains looking good . I take a break from hear come back and bob is gone! But at least this thread is not dead twochains keep up the good work.


----------



## 056 kid

twochains said:


> Oh crap...how did I get into this! LMAO! Jon...me and 056 kid are tight! LOL! He ain't baggin on me...LOL!
> 
> Hey 056 Kid, how did your fishing trip go? Did ya fill yer freezer?


unfortunately its the driest its ever been here so all the fish are still out at sea. The river is dead right now. I did gather a bunch of delicious muscles though. I'm glad I came.


----------



## twochains

schmuck.k said:


> Two chains looking good . I take a break from hear come back and bob is gone! But at least this thread is not dead twochains keep up the good work.



Thank you! Very nice of you!


----------



## bitzer

Christ- I'm gone for a little while and this thread gets soft...

Anyway- Icepick and I finished up cutting a job today. Mostly nice red and white oak. It was above zero today too, wind chill and all! They're talkin about 50 below with the wind for tomorrow night. Should be fun. This job was an MFL piece and there were several acres of pine and spruce that had to be thinned. One hell of a pace change from 500 bf red and white oaks. Had to tough it out. I don't get how anyone could stay in business hand thinning conifers like this. I hear there are guys who still do it though.




One of the taller red oaks from this morning. It was 50 ft to the top. A few trees later I had one that was 56 ft to the top. Might be my tallest red ever. Made 4 10s and a 12. Most of the red oaks I cut today were pushing 7-800 bf a piece I'll bet.



Clint- when you first put into your back cut when swinging that pine, I thought he is cutting too close to the hinge on the near side. You gotta save that wood for later. Keep the near side wood fat and work that far side off. Keep an eye on the top and nip away or rip away accordingly. It seemed that you didn't quite swing it as far as the face or maybe as far as you wanted? Maybe just the camera angles. The majority of your holding wood needs to be on the outside of the near side. I tried finding a good stump pic, but I can't go back through my old pictures on here and I can't find where I saved it. Otherwise man, its looking good. Like Ted said though, you start opening up faces and you can do all sorts of cools stuff. That and max steerage.


----------



## twochains

bitzer said:


> Christ- I'm gone for a little while and this thread gets soft...
> 
> 
> Clint- when you first put into your back cut when swinging that pine, I thought he is cutting too close to the hinge on the near side. You gotta save that wood for later. Keep the near side wood fat and work that far side off. Keep an eye on the top and nip away or rip away accordingly. It seemed that you didn't quite swing it as far as the face or maybe as far as you wanted? Maybe just the camera angles. The majority of your holding wood needs to be on the outside of the near side. I tried finding a good stump pic, but I can't go back through my old pictures on here and I can't find where I saved it. Otherwise man, its looking good. Like Ted said though, you start opening up faces and you can do all sorts of cools stuff. That and max steerage.



Honestly bitzer it didn't go as far as I had faced it...but I agknowledged that in the video. I tell ya what messed that cut up more than anything...my backcut slid under a herd resin knot on the back cut...you can see me look at it and come out to release it then the tree went ahead and started swinging. Had that tab not been there it would have swung further due to it would have been moving progressively and not all at once. Actually where it fell was fine, the top hit the skid trail I was aiming at and I took down zero save timber. 

But just yes it came off too quick....I admitted it in the video though...so that has to count for something right? LOL! Hope ya had a good Christmas and New Year. Stay safe.


----------



## bitzer

twochains said:


> Honestly bitzer it didn't go as far as I had faced it...but I agknowledged that in the video. I tell ya what messed that cut up more than anything...my backcut slid under a herd resin knot on the back cut...you can see me look at it and come out to release it then the tree went ahead and started swinging. Had that tab not been there it would have swung further due to it would have been moving progressively and not all at once. Actually where it fell was fine, the top hit the skid trail I was aiming at and I took down zero save timber.
> 
> But just yes it came off too quick....I admitted it in the video though...so that has to count for something right? LOL! Hope ya had a good Christmas and New Year. Stay safe.


Sorry, I watched it with the sound off. My computer is all ****ed up. Anyway more hold wood would have gotten you there. And yes I did have some good holidays! Hope yours were good as well! I gotta hit the sack.


----------



## IcePick

bitzer said:


> Christ- I'm gone for a little while and this thread gets soft...
> 
> Anyway- Icepick and I finished up cutting a job today. Mostly nice red and white oak. It was above zero today too, wind chill and all! They're talkin about 50 below with the wind for tomorrow night. Should be fun. This job was an MFL piece and there were several acres of pine and spruce that had to be thinned. One hell of a pace change from 500 bf red and white oaks. Had to tough it out. I don't get how anyone could stay in business hand thinning conifers like this. I hear there are guys who still do it though.
> 
> 
> View attachment 326057
> 
> 
> One of the taller red oaks from this morning. It was 50 ft to the top. A few trees later I had one that was 56 ft to the top. Might be my tallest red ever. Made 4 10s and a 12. Most of the red oaks I cut today were pushing 7-800 bf a piece I'll bet.
> View attachment 326062
> 
> 
> Clint- when you first put into your back cut when swinging that pine, I thought he is cutting too close to the hinge on the near side. You gotta save that wood for later. Keep the near side wood fat and work that far side off. Keep an eye on the top and nip away or rip away accordingly. It seemed that you didn't quite swing it as far as the face or maybe as far as you wanted? Maybe just the camera angles. The majority of your holding wood needs to be on the outside of the near side. I tried finding a good stump pic, but I can't go back through my old pictures on here and I can't find where I saved it. Otherwise man, its looking good. Like Ted said though, you start opening up faces and you can do all sorts of cools stuff. That and max steerage.



Sorry I took off in a rush bob. I dropped that 35+" red oak as careful as I could, as not to crack the leaders. Well I dropped her as flat as I could but the one leader still cracked. Then I made the mistake of answering my wife's phone call, started rushing to buck it up, got my bar pinched on the cracked leader, you may have heard the expletives, cut myself free, my wife called again then I stormed out dragging my freed bar and chain and jugs through the snow, mumbling the whole time under my breath thinking somehow the wife was hearing it. We had a good talk later in the day.


----------



## twochains

IP are you telling on yourself? LOL! Bob don't give a shat. If you ever get in real trouble and piss him off...just let me know and I will make a video with a huge ass'd open face cut about knee high...that'll put a smile on his face! THH! 

just joking bitz! LULLZ!


----------



## treeslayer2003

that's why I hate a cell phone.......put it in a face.


----------



## bitzer

IcePick said:


> Sorry I took off in a rush bob. I dropped that 35+" red oak as careful as I could, as not to crack the leaders. Well I dropped her as flat as I could but the one leader still cracked. Then I made the mistake of answering my wife's phone call, started rushing to buck it up, got my bar pinched on the cracked leader, you may have heard the expletives, cut myself free, my wife called again then I stormed out dragging my freed bar and chain and jugs through the snow, mumbling the whole time under my breath thinking somehow the wife was hearing it. We had a good talk later in the day.



I was just finishing my section and walking over to yours when I saw you packing out. It looked like you were on a mission. I also saw you dump that one with the fork. You laid it as flat as can be. The wood in the split of the last log was all gray and weathered. Must have been split already. It was ****ed when it was standing. I had to swing one that was similar to that and I laid it out nice and purdy. Saved out really good. Its just luck of the draw sometimes. I just barely got the rest of the trees cut. It was on my last chain that I was really horsein on and my last drops of fuel. Snapped my only av mount on the back handle on the last tree. I was runnin my old 390 and had already stolen one of the springs for my newer 390, just pushin it too hard. I don't know what was in that wood, but chains going dull every three trees sucked ass. I'll miss the big timber, but not that part. I was ****ing beat as hell yesterday. That dull chain crap really beats you up. That Packer loss sucked last night too. Hope your home today with 40 below out. I am.


----------



## bitzer

twochains said:


> IP are you telling on yourself? LOL! Bob don't give a shat. If you ever get in real trouble and piss him off...just let me know and I will make a video with a huge ass'd open face cut about knee high...that'll put a smile on his face! THH!
> 
> just joking bitz! LULLZ!


If you make a high stump with a nice wide face I may shat!


----------



## bitzer

treeslayer2003 said:


> that's why I hate a cell phone.......put it in a face.


Yep. Remember when a guy could get away with a few things? Nobody knew where you were at all times? You could throw a few back at the bar and no one was the wiser? My dad told me he used to leave the house to go ice fishing on a Saturday morning and he would roll back in about dinner time Sunday night. No call, no word. Amazing my mom hung around. It was different then and that was only 20 years ago. Christ I'm AWOL for an hour and I'm getting bitched at, "where the hell are you!?" All this technology and staying in touch crap, social networking, etc. just gets more people into more trouble. Its nice for calling in log trucks and such, but that's about it.


----------



## northmanlogging

Just don't answer the ****ing thing, no different then being at home, I'm in the woods sorry I didn't have reception works pretty good. Of course I'm spoiled and she hardly ever calls, if she does its something important anyway... 


I have an interesting tree to get down in the next few weeks, its just a piddly little alder, but it gots some crazy assed lean to it, probably close to 100' tall and only about 14" on the stump... leaning towards the neighbors chicken coop. Probably end up using every trick in my book on this one. Course its going to take all ****ing day to rig up and its probably only worth about $300. but its cock blocking nearly half an acre of good timber.


----------



## twochains

Dang...this thread about slipped off the front page again! Here is a couple from the other day. Sloped layout, this was the last piece before finishing this job. Nothing spectacular as usual. opcorn:


----------



## treeslayer2003

Clint, I mighta kept up with you in my mid 30s lol. nice pace as allways bro, your faces look better every vid ya post.
is all y'alls pine short needle? those trees do look mature by their form no matter the size.


----------



## twochains

A good Red Oak I cut this afternoon. Yeh bitzer I know...4 fricken minutes! LOL!


----------



## twochains

treeslayer2003 said:


> Clint, I mighta kept up with you in my mid 30s lol. nice pace as allways bro, your faces look better every vid ya post.
> is all y'alls pine short needle? those trees do look mature by their form no matter the size.



Man Mike, I really don't know. I always just called it yellow pine. Foresters say there is Loblolly in FS stuff...but you can't tell a absolute bit of difference in the two standing beside each other. I was walking with a project manager once and wanted him to show me the Loblolly stand he said was in the back of the unit...he couldn't pick out where it stopped or started...looks the same to me.


----------



## treeslayer2003

I can tell by the needles on the ground. mostly our lobs have 5-6" needles, but we have a few short needle 3-4" needles. they are different subspieces of yellow pine. just seems you have a lot of short there. foresters here don't seem to care about the old species. I have noticed at least 4 different yellow pines and Virginia pine and a white pine once in a while.


----------



## wowzers

99% of the time I work out of cell range.


----------



## HuskStihl

Nice work TC. The 288 woulda been able to help you keep up with the Bitz. I liked the face on that oak, I could tell you were taking u'r time and making sure it wasn't damaged.


----------



## treeslayer2003

did you think that oak a bit different than most?


----------



## twochains

treeslayer2003 said:


> did you think that oak a bit different than most?



I don't know what you mean


----------



## treeslayer2003

looks like what we call rock oak.....hard to tell from here but they hard


----------



## JakeG

Nice videos Clint. I bet the weight of the 372 is nice but I imagine you miss the torque of the 66, or not really?


----------



## twochains

Well it did cut pretty hard, very similar to a white oak the same size. I just figured it was due to the compression wood from the weight of the top. The back sawed easier. But all and all it was harder than the rest of the red oak I cut today. I cut a couple red oaks that were up above the one in the video, the heart was more pale and they cut like warm butter. I lost 4ft off the butt and still had 25" on the small end of the 3rd tie...damn nice tree, had 3 limbs on the log! Too bad it was rotten.


----------



## treeslayer2003

yea they like white oak. my forester said they are white but sure looks red to me. that tree old for sure bro, strait too.


----------



## twochains

JakeG said:


> Nice videos Clint. I bet the weight of the 372 is nice but I imagine you miss the torque of the 66, or not really?



Thanks Jake! Eh, IDK...I think I would have liked to try the 288 on it with a better chain. That chain was sharpened about two sharpenings away from the witness marks, I think there was room for improvement. I never was bothered by the weight of the 660, I just wish it reved out better. I been cutting with it lately in hardwood. I broke my fricken Spencer tape and been using a 20" bar to mark the tie logs.


----------



## twochains

treeslayer2003 said:


> yea they like white oak. my forester said they are white but sure looks red to me. that tree old for sure bro, strait too.


Hey man there is an oak up there that I don't know what it is. I'm not cutting it but it would be around same age as the one in the video. It's got different bark than I am used to ever seeing. I couldn't find any acorns around the tree...it's got real thick deep grooved bark, light in color. I will take a video of it 2moro.


----------



## hammerlogging

twochains said:


> Hey man there is an oak up there that I don't know what it is. I'm not cutting it but it would be around same age as the one in the video. It's got different bark than I am used to ever seeing. I couldn't find any acorns around the tree...it's got real thick deep grooved bark, light in color. I will take a video of it 2moro.


chinquapin?


----------



## HuskStihl

Cottonwood


----------



## hammerlogging

i guess it must be, if its not pine


----------



## twochains

hammerlogging said:


> chinquapin?


Are you talking about that chinquapin oak? See, IDK what that is...our chinquapin are related to the chestnut with really prickly seed pods in large clusters. I haven't ever seen a large one of those...they are generally scrubby looking and prolly an 8 inch stump would be large. I have seen pictures of chinquapin oak leaves but those don't have the big clusters of seed pods.


----------



## hammerlogging

twochains said:


> Are you talking about that chinquapin oak? See, IDK what that is...our chinquapin are related to the chestnut with really prickly seed pods in large clusters. I haven't ever seen a large one of those...they are generally scrubby looking and prolly an 8 inch stump would be large. I have seen pictures of chinquapin oak leaves but those don't have the big clusters of seed pods.


Yes, the oak one. They look a lot like a white oak, but not exactly. I cut some of them off some limestone rock bars in Tennessee. 2 12'rs type of trees.


----------



## twochains

Are you pretty familiar with rough ground post oak? There is quite a bit of it on this place. I was down loading a couple videos and didn't take my camera to the woods today. I am cutting Sunday and will get some footage of this tree. Age is hard to determine on thi timber...I cut a whopper post oak around 3 1/2 across the stump, I bet that tree was 100+ years...it was sound too! LOL!


----------



## northmanlogging

tried to video a fatty doug fir today, but its got a funny angle, and the damn battery died like 20 seconds before the money shot. Got a whole bunch of revving saw, and a blue hat spinning around with a bushy unkempt beard blowing lots of steam...


----------



## twochains

I got a 4 hour headstart in some pine and oak the other day, I held off 2 skidders for 7 days with them finally catching me on the 6th day while cutting oak. This was all sloped ground and their removal was pretty hard on them. Everyday at about my 7th hour, my legs were jelly. You start out feeling like a bad ass then by the end you feel like a worm with the **** slung out of him. Fun though watching 2 skidders get your material out.


----------



## bitzer

Is it a bur oak Clint? Usually pretty thick bark. Tannish. They can grow fairly tall and straight in the right settings. Form is like a regular white oak. Still don't know how to access my old pictures otherwise I'd throw one up. I may have you in stump time Clint, but I think you'd kick my ass in stamina!


----------



## treeslayer2003

lol, only thing slows down ol Clinton is runnin outta gas I think.


----------



## JakeG

treeslayer2003 said:


> lol, only thing slows down ol Clinton is runnin outta gas I think.



I hope I have that much stamina in ten years (or was it 12 years) like he does


----------



## Plankton

Some random snaps from a job I started on friday only cut one tree all day that my bar tip stuck out of, big wood for my area. Ran the 2172 for the first time and it was impressive, lots of power and light as a feather compared to the 2188. Was a little slow for my tastes when going through oak though

EDIT: pictures turned out huge not sure what happened oh well...


fiber pull pron!









the evidence






and for all you low stump junkies (Goosed out up to about 6 ft)





Makin plywood!





obligatory ugly mug shot






stay safe!


----------



## 1270d

Nice pines plankton.


----------



## northmanlogging

nice fir from this morning, enjoy


----------



## treeslayer2003

nice work, wedges just insurance there.


----------



## Metals406

Big enough thump to knock over the camera.


----------



## Nuzzy

Metals406 said:


> Big enough thump to knock over the camera.




That's when you know you're havin' fun!


----------



## northmanlogging

When I walked up on it I thought it fell over early again... and wedges with a tree that is 150' tall with a breeze going the wrong way just seemed like a good idea.

The next one I fell the wind had picked up a little bit and I ended up hiking out to get my jacks after stuffing every wedge I had in it. It was a wee bit bigger too.


----------



## treeslayer2003

wedges almost always a good idea.


----------



## HuskStihl

Northman. About ****ing time. Why is it that Clint is the only guy who realizes that the purpose of their job is to make cool videos for me to watch? Handsome Mike, you could learn something from our leviathanic sasquachian friend


----------



## northmanlogging

didn't that tree make me look almost normal sized?


----------



## bitzer

Hey Plankton nice pines! How is it that you always stay so clean? Haha! Good lookin stumps too.

Northman- Wish I had some big conifers to kill. Nice work!


----------



## northmanlogging

I'm a thinking its the skidders that make us filthy... just falling and cutting all day a guy can just shake the chips off, dragging cable around is when you become one with the dirt


----------



## bitzer

I'll have to take a selfie some day when I'm done. Especially this time of year. Usually consists of beard icicles full of saw dust and snot. Dust usually freezes/sticks to my lips too. When I'm done cutting I have to kind of chew it off. I forgot about the icicles one day when I was finishing up and a nearby landowner stopped while I was tossin my gear in my truck. He had a weird look on his face the entire time I was talking to him. Usually my outer shirt is plastered full of **** too. My pants stay fairly clean this time of year though, just wet. Winter is the only time of year I wear chaps. They are ugly. But yeah, my face usually has a darker look to it after sittin in the skidder all day. The wife can always tell if I've had a shitty day by lookin at my finger nails. Clean=productive. Black=shitty.


----------



## treeslayer2003

lol, yup I get the; what tore up?


----------



## Plankton

Easy to stay clean cutting on flat frozen ground with no snow, its when I'm setting chokers in the mud that I look like a real logger, dirty and pissed off


----------



## northmanlogging

I almost always come home in a good mood from logging, unless something broke that was expensive, even then I'm in a better mood then after a day at the machine shop.


----------



## wowzers

I had to fill in on a different crew today, and they had this baby set up for a walk log. Didn't get to fall or skid this one, but I got some of his cousins!


----------



## Steve NW WI

Okay, I gotta ask, what's a "walk log"?


----------



## Nuzzy

Steve NW WI said:


> Okay, I gotta ask, what's a "walk log"?




Glad I'm not the only curious one. opcorn:


----------



## wowzers

On our crew the guy pulling away with the loader (rotates every line) is also the guy getting out to unbell chokers, so it is way easier on the knees to get out on to a "walk log" then jump out from the ladder or even the tracks every turn.


----------



## northmanlogging

Damn you kids must have some really sharp caulks then, or one of the loader jockeys needs to go on a diet...


----------



## slowp

Ahhhhhh, I see and yet, the shovel can move back and forth a bit.


----------



## Trx250r180

wowzers said:


> I had to fill in on a different crew today, and they had this baby set up for a walk log. Didn't get to fall or skid this one, but I got some of his cousins!


that walk log had a lot of fiber pull


----------



## Steve NW WI

I've learned something. Now I can turn my brain off for the weekend.


----------



## wowzers

Trx250r180 said:


> that walk log had a lot of fiber pull


I wouldn't say so. It's cedar bark.


----------



## wowzers

northmanlogging said:


> Damn you kids must have some really sharp caulks then, or one of the loader jockeys needs to go on a diet...


I wish, jumping in and out of that thing ruins caulks! That one is about perfect, so I imagine they had been packing it around for a couple lines.


----------



## wowzers

slowp said:


> Ahhhhhh, I see and yet, the shovel can move back and forth a bit.


Yeah usually its smaller so you just throw it in front of the track and can still move around pretty good. Say a turn gets a little far away you just nudge it out of the way and travel towards the yarder.


----------



## northmanlogging

I'm on my third? set of nails this year... rocks, gravel, skidder steps, sometimes pavement... this time its the phillips brand? they seem pointier? Its what the local saw shop had in stock.


----------



## Nuzzy

Spent yesterday snag falling for a new bike trail we're trying to punch through over the next few months. Second growth never thinned (as far as I can tell) since a fire years and years back. Just a ton of blown out tops leaving poles everywhere; some fresh and good wood, while others were rotten punky messes. Best guess is I took somewhere between 60-80 down; most in the 6-20" range. Talk about never a dull moment with snags...  I had some busting apart with just the horizontal of the face in, some blatantly ignoring the hinge and going sideways, some getting all kinds of hung up... Thankfully we were anticipating a **** storm and it didn't really affect anything other than keeping me on my toes! Even got some great opportunities (in the better wood and when space would allow) to swing some downhill leaning trees to more closely parallel the trail.


Still had some solid wood in this old blowdown, so we opted to carve it into a feature. 







Traditionally, I would handle diagonally stuck trees with a wedge cut out and underbuck, but I came across discussion of a plunged vertical snap cut a little while back and happened upon a great spot to try it out. I'm a big fan now 







Shameless selfie because why not...







This little guy made me work for it a bit...







I made two mistakes. It was a 40-50' tall snag with no top. I cut my off side to where I wanted, but didn't perfectly square up the hinge to the face when finishing the near side. Normally I believe I would have still been fine, but that leads into the second mistake which was I left a hinge thickness more suited for a fully crowned tree... Wedging blown out trees obviously just doesn't give the same weight redistribution and that bit me. Stacking wedges still didn't get me enough so I ended up nibbling the hinge from the face to get the thing to commit. Luckily that did the trick just fine.







Been awhile since I burned up a gallon a fuel without bucking anything.


----------



## bitzer

Nice work Nuzzy! That's usually how you do up a spar like that. Deep face beyond center. Then nip from the face when it doesn't want to tip. Its really easy to cut too much off of one side and then she'll take off on you left or right. Not the kind of head gear I'd expect in yer neck of the woods man! Any time you can dump a bunch of timber and don't have to clean up the mess is a good time!


----------



## Nuzzy

bitzer said:


> Not the kind of head gear I'd expect in yer neck of the woods man!




 I know. Had that damn helmet for I don't know how long; used to be just for firewooding back in Michigan. One of these days I'll pry open my wallet and finally make a legit man out of myself.


----------



## HuskStihl

Nuzzy said:


> I know. Had that damn helmet for I don't know how long; used to be just for firewooding back in Michigan. One of these days I'll pry open my wallet and finally make a legit man out of myself.


All the cool guys are wearing 'em now, and the coolest have beards


----------



## Nuzzy

HuskStihl said:


> All the cool guys are wearing 'em now, and the coolest have beards




Cool doesn't even begin to describe the awesomeness of pulling your gear out of your Subaru Outback!


----------



## Joe46

The Rainbow Nation is doing a collective chest clutch!


----------



## northmanlogging

oh yeah, VOLVO baby


----------



## Nuzzy

Joe46 said:


> The Rainbow Nation is doing a collective chest clutch!




I've been told more than once I don't help out the tree hugging Subaru owner stereotype.  I do make one hell of a lesbian though! 





northmanlogging said:


> oh yeah, VOLVO baby




 

I love a good wagon.


----------



## northmanlogging

problem with the lesbian thing is none of the other lesbians want to play on account of the beard... I feel your pain...


----------



## Nuzzy

northmanlogging said:


> problem with the lesbian thing is none of the other lesbians want to play on account of the beard... I feel your pain...





Few years back, I shaved my legs and pits, and wore a black cocktail dress for Halloween; fluffed the beard out to it's fullest... Bet I could confuse a few lesbians if rocked that setup again 







BTW, growing all that hair back out is rigoddamndiculously itchy for the next two weeks, especially when sweating under welding protection in a metal fab shop.


----------



## Plankton

83 diesel benz joining the car crummy club


----------



## HuskStihl

Beat up land cruiser


----------



## Nuzzy

Plankton said:


> 83 diesel benz joining the car crummy club




Bonus points since you have a trunk to legally transport gas!


----------



## Nuzzy

HuskStihl said:


> Beat up land cruiser





The tip of that bar has to sit up between the front seats, doesn't it...


----------



## Metals406

I feel all weird with a truck crummy now.


----------



## Nuzzy

Metals406 said:


> I feel all weird with a truck crummy now.







I used to have a nice diesel truck and jeep. Then three kids came in 3 years. Now I sit in my do-all wagon and tell myself, "well, at least it's all wheel drive..."


----------



## HuskStihl

Nuzzy said:


> I used to have a nice diesel truck and jeep. Then three kids came in 3 years. Now I sit in my do-all wagon and tell myself, "well, at least it's all wheel drive..."


PM me if you need an explanation of where all those babies are coming from


----------



## northmanlogging

Plankton said:


> 83 diesel benz joining the car crummy club


Is that a bag of fertilizer next to a can of diesel? Not judging just curious...

The wifey had a 76 240d before the diesel volvo, the benz drove like a listing barge... and some jerk (me) used too much ether to start it one day...


----------



## Plankton

Thats loose salt for cows and 2 stroke in the can  , car is doubling as farmtruck while farm truck is broken.

240's are famous for being slow but my dad has one with 150k on it and a 4 speed and it drives like a sports car (don't ask me how I know ) must be that most of them are all worn out or something.


----------



## Nuzzy

HuskStihl said:


> PM me if you need an explanation of where all those babies are coming from





Go big or go home.  







She's all tied up now. If another one spits out, them doctors got some 'splanin to do!!


----------



## Nuzzy

Plankton said:


> 240's are famous for being slow but my dad has one with 150k on it and a 4 speed and it drives like a sports car (don't ask me how I know ) must be that most of them are all worn out or something.




Have a diesel nut friend who just can't let things alone. His propane assisted 300 benz made for a nice little commuter.


----------



## northmanlogging

the 240 did ok for a commuter. It had a myriad of other issues, cold starting being one of them, hence the too much ether.

The volvo 245 she's got now is dangerous for me to drive... handles like a go cart but rides like a cadilac. And the pump is turned up just a wee bit so when you red line it in 1st 2nd and 3rd, you drown all the prius drivers in thick pillowy clouds of dense black smoke... which I suppose I should fix and maybe bring the mileage up to around 40mpg


----------



## rwoods

HuskStihl said:


> View attachment 330802
> 
> Beat up land cruiser



Jon, a Land Cruiser will hold far more than that. Ron


Tornado duty. 303 cc and 106 inches in back (Well mostly in the back). 164cc and 56 inches in the middle (Not counting the intrusion from the rear). And yes, those are wood wedges holding the window up.


----------



## HuskStihl

rwoods said:


> Jon, a Land Cruiser will hold far more than that. Ron
> 
> 
> Tornado duty. 303 cc and 106 inches in back (Well mostly in the back). 164cc and 56 inches in the middle (Not counting the intrusion from the rear). And yes, those are wood wedges holding the window up.
> View attachment 331229
> View attachment 331230


Great pics, thanks!
Here's how they look when you let a 12 year old monkey boy drive them


----------



## treeslayer2003

lol, that's priceless.


----------



## rwoods

Here's what a 57 year old boy does when he forgets his surroundings and thinks it just a little bush scratching he hears. Ron


----------



## JakeG

Nice early morning laughs, thanks!


----------



## HuskStihl

rwoods said:


> Here's what a 57 year old boy does when he forgets his surroundings and thinks it just a little bush scratching he hears. Ron
> 
> View attachment 331238


Ya, unfortunately I've had to take the sledge to mine several times to get the back hatch to close. Mine can't pass inspection without lots of money, so it's on permanent skidder duty


----------



## HuskStihl

Although sometimes it is still hits the road when the puppies need to go to the vet


----------



## JakeG

What does it need Jon? Catalytic converter? Distributor?


----------



## slowp

Metals406 said:


> I feel all weird with a truck crummy now.


 
Yes. I think I'll trade mine in and get a Subaru. To heck with ground clearance. We don' need no stinkin' ground clearance here.
I do really miss my Subaru. They are so good in the snow.


----------



## madhatte

Not sure if it's true with current Subaru models, but the Outback I had a few years ago offered a couple of inches' better ground clearance than my Ranger did. Independent axles tucked up into the body, dontcha know.


----------



## Nuzzy

Coming from Land Rovers and built Jeeps, I've been genuinely impressed with that Subaru AWD system; they really did something right there. Have a few battle wounds on the bumpers and undercarriage from disregarding ground clearance and just giving a bit more throttle 


Obviously can't compare to full 4wd and diff locks, but it doesn't leave me stranded.


----------



## Nuzzy

HuskStihl said:


> Here's how they look when you let a 12 year old monkey boy drive them
> View attachment 331232




That's just good stuff.


----------



## rwoods

HuskStihl said:


> Ya, unfortunately I've had to take the sledge to mine several times to get the back hatch to close. Mine can't pass inspection without lots of money, so it's on permanent skidder duty



I said good-bye to mine last April after almost 21 years. I still miss it but to keep peace at home and lower the overhead it is gone. I still have a deuce on the chopping block. Maybe when it is gone, I'll resurrect my FJ40. Ron


----------



## rwoods

In 1975 or 76, I witnessed, as a passenger in both, a then new Subaru station wagon put a real spanking on a 1967 Bronco running up and down a lengthy old rock creek bed incline. The Subaru was more comfortable and would go quicker albeit on three wheels most of the time. With some finesse, the Subaru with its short little tires could tackle some surprisingly big rocks. I've never owned one and probably never will but I have always admired them. Ron

PS Must not be much falling going on if we just discussing crummies.


----------



## HuskStihl

JakeG said:


> What does it need Jon? Catalytic converter? Distributor?


Basically all new exhaust. We don't really need another road vehicle, and don't feel like spending money to make one. It's good for what it does


----------



## Metals406

I really do like my wife's AWD Subaru. Good gas mileage, safe, great in the winter. . . Darn thing ain't the cheapest to werk on though.


----------



## slowp

My Outback scraped on the waterbars put in on the roads to super secret huckleberry patches. The Tomato Ranger clears them and makes berry picking much more enjoyable.


----------



## northmanlogging

rwoods said:


> In 1975 or 76, I witnessed, as a passenger in both, a then new Subaru station wagon put a real spanking on a 1967 Bronco running up and down a lengthy old rock creek bed incline. The Subaru was more comfortable and would go quicker albeit on three wheels most of the time. With some finesse, the Subaru with its short little tires could tackle some surprisingly big rocks. I've never owned one and probably never will but I have always admired them. Ron
> 
> PS Must not be much falling going on if we just discussing crummies.




I don't know about the rest of these jokers but I'm still killing trees, I imagine the not left coast gang is working around the clock what with winter in full swing there.


----------



## Nuzzy

Metals406 said:


> Darn thing ain't the cheapest to werk on though.




Making matters worse, mine spent most of its life dealing with midwest winters. Not a COMPLETE rust bucket, but every single nut and bolt reminds me of its history every time I crawl underneath to do some work.  Week long penetrating oil pretreatment a must; torches borderline necessary.


----------



## Gologit

northmanlogging said:


> I don't know about the rest of these jokers but I'm still killing trees, I imagine the not left coast gang is working around the clock what with winter in full swing there.



Yup. Some of us are still getting wood down the hill.

I thought for a minute I was in the wrong forum. Sheeesh...take a couple of months away and come back to this... a discussion of yuppie SUVs? 

Burvol would not be pleased. Not at all.


----------



## HuskStihl

Gologit said:


> Yup. Some of us are still getting wood down the hill.
> 
> I thought for a minute I was in the wrong forum. Sheeesh...take a couple of months away and come back to this... a discussion of yuppie SUVs?
> 
> Burvol would not be pleased. Not at all.


An old land cruiser is not a yuppie SUV. I am a total yuppie and am qualified to say this. Now a subie forester.......
Welcome back old man


----------



## northmanlogging

welcome back bob...


----------



## Nuzzy

Gologit said:


> Yup. Some of us are still getting wood down the hill.
> 
> I thought for a minute I was in the wrong forum. Sheeesh...take a couple of months away and come back to this... a discussion of yuppie SUVs?
> 
> Burvol would not be pleased. Not at all.





Glad you're back to set things straight!

Now where's them falling pics??


----------



## slowp

Well, I could start brushing out my road tomorrow. Should I use a chainsaw, or the little pruning saw?


----------



## treeslayer2003

good to see ya Bob!
northman, yea, but mud now. it thawing out, I ain't far enough north.


----------



## Metals406

Bob!!


----------



## slowp

Some Buckin' today.


----------



## bitzer

I told ya you'd be back...


----------



## 1270d

it might be worse than subaru talk to show midwest mech logging , oh well heres my trusty steed




and one of the forwarders




my big helper comes to the job on saturday sometimes. he s been riding in the harvester for a few years already


----------



## bitzer

Looks kinda hilly? You've got a little cash tied up in your operation huh?  I was called by my mill's forester who buys in the northern section the other day. He works in the Green Bay area mostly. He wants me to hand cut a job to the north of me. Can't find anyone else to do it. He said, "nobody wants to work anymore." I said, "what? Hand cut?" Yep. He told me he'd like to sell the processor and double bunk. (I think he just bought brand new ponsses last spring.) Yep, just buy a twenty year old single bunk like I've got and go back to hand cutting. I've heard that many times. Do you think we will get a winter like last year? All of March maybe? I'm crossin my fingers.


----------



## Nuzzy

Gologit said:


> Yup. Some of us are still getting wood down the hill.
> 
> I thought for a minute I was in the wrong forum. Sheeesh...take a couple of months away and come back to this... a discussion of yuppie SUVs?
> 
> Burvol would not be pleased. Not at all.





I left my yuppie SUV wagon and took the mule team instead. We had to ford rivers and fight off mountain lions just to get there!!


----------



## 1270d

bitzer said:


> Looks kinda hilly? You've got a little cash tied up in your operation huh?  I was called by my mill's forester who buys in the northern section the other day. He works in the Green Bay area mostly. He wants me to hand cut a job to the north of me. Can't find anyone else to do it. He said, "nobody wants to work anymore." I said, "what? Hand cut?" Yep. He told me he'd like to sell the processor and double bunk. (I think he just bought brand new ponsses last spring.) Yep, just buy a twenty year old single bunk like I've got and go back to hand cutting. I've heard that many times. Do you think we will get a winter like last year? All of March maybe? I'm crossin my fingers.



hard to see our short, rough terrain in the pics but that job was probably the roughest ive ever worked on. hoping winter lasts a good while yet. last year it got warm for a while in march, we had to pull the plug. I promptly headed for Arizona with the family, then winter came back. We have work right through breakup this year. Have to shut down for a couple weeks when the gravel gets soft but it sure beats two and a half months off like last year.

there are a few guys left hand cutting around here, not many though. Your forester is right, not many guys want to work a saw, even though there is a decent living to be made still. Most of our timber is doable with equipment. We do use a guy every now and then when theres a good run of big hardwood. I can cut up to thirty inch stuff with the machine, but its slow having to cut off limbs individually with the head. Bitz you should test run a single bunk like the one in my pic there. I think you'd be in love. its a 1010d TJ/deere. real nice machine. and if that guy you know is in a bind and needs to unload his equipment cheap i might know someone


----------



## 1270d

Another scenic landscape created this winter.


----------



## Gologit

Nuzzy said:


> I left my yuppie SUV wagon and took the mule team instead. We had to ford rivers and fight off mountain lions just to get there!!




Dilettante. Good on ya for clearing trails but it's a long way from real logging.


----------



## Nuzzy

Gologit said:


> Dilettante. Good on ya for clearing trails but it's a long way from real logging.




Really? Is it state the obvious day and I missed the memo? 


That's why I'm here; to live vicariously through you guys. And to hopefully pick up a few tricks and fun stories along the way.


----------



## Trx250r180

Nuzzy said:


> I left my yuppie SUV wagon and took the mule team instead. We had to ford rivers and fight off mountain lions just to get there!!




could have at least cut a few of those into park benches so the hikers could have somewhere to sit down and have a rest  ,that was a good sized tree ,i would love to mill that thing up


----------



## Nuzzy

Trx250r180 said:


> could have at least cut a few of those into park benches so the hikers could have somewhere to sit down and have a rest  ,that was a good sized tree ,i would love to mill that thing up




I know 

We half-assed it and just propped a few rounds up into good sitting spots. At least gives them somewhere to ponder life whilst sipping Starbucks.


----------



## madhatte

Looks like cottonwood; I guess that means we all know what you smell like.


----------



## IcePick




----------



## Gologit

IcePick said:


> View attachment 332923



That one got away from the stump, didn't it?


----------



## IcePick

Yeah, the top hit another oak limb, and she twisted off for quite a ride.


----------



## IcePick




----------



## IcePick

And one more, just to remind us summer will surely come.


----------



## IcePick

Gologit said:


> That one got away from the stump, didn't it?


 Great to see you're back posting again.


----------



## Gologit

IcePick said:


> Great to see you're back posting again.


 Thanks. I wish we had oak like that out here. I cut some white oak for firewood last year and I don't think there was a straight piece of wood in the whole thing. Kinda like a big shrub.


----------



## IcePick

Gologit said:


> That one got away from the stump, didn't it?





Gologit said:


> Thanks. I wish we had oak like that out here. I cut some white oak for firewood last year and I don't think there was a straight piece of wood in the whole thing. Kinda like a big shrub.


 yeah, this job is all big limby white and red oak. Its tough cutting, but i cant complain, I dont cut it everyday of the week like bitzer. Hes a tough cookie.


----------



## bitzer

That buckthorn and deep snow is wearin me down though. You forgot to post one of these beauties! Limby ass bur oak from last Friday. I coulda drove the skidder under the arch.




Icepick's a badass in his own right. Heres him knockin a limb off an ash before I cut it. VERY picky landowner wanted to save a small maple under the ash. It was 5 degrees that day. -30 in the wind I believe.




All right enough of the touchy feely ****! I got sum bullchit to fix and sharpen.


----------



## treeslayer2003

I hope y'all still here, can't see ya. I gotta cut a big beech tomorrow on the side of a slope. I need it up hill to be able to get it out, but it will certainly hit before the hinge breaks off. heavy top, butt is 40" or more, stem is around 40' to the top or less. any suggestions on face type?


----------



## bitzer

1270d said:


> hard to see our short, rough terrain in the pics but that job was probably the roughest ive ever worked on. hoping winter lasts a good while yet. last year it got warm for a while in march, we had to pull the plug. I promptly headed for Arizona with the family, then winter came back. We have work right through breakup this year. Have to shut down for a couple weeks when the gravel gets soft but it sure beats two and a half months off like last year.
> 
> there are a few guys left hand cutting around here, not many though. Your forester is right, not many guys want to work a saw, even though there is a decent living to be made still. Most of our timber is doable with equipment. We do use a guy every now and then when theres a good run of big hardwood. I can cut up to thirty inch stuff with the machine, but its slow having to cut off limbs individually with the head. Bitz you should test run a single bunk like the one in my pic there. I think you'd be in love. its a 1010d TJ/deere. real nice machine. and if that guy you know is in a bind and needs to unload his equipment cheap i might know someone


 
Yeah we had frost in the ground here until April 1st. I did a lot clearing job during the month of April and then I was cutting some high ground. Never really stopped last year. I'm sure I would love that single bunk. Anything with joysticks and power shift would be nice. Enclosed cab could be a bonus too. That guy just says he wants out of the mech logging. I think they just say that sometimes to make me feel better. I'm hoping in a few years I can demand a pay raise to cut the big timber!


----------



## bitzer

treeslayer2003 said:


> I hope y'all still here, can't see ya. I gotta cut a big beech tomorrow on the side of a slope. I need it up hill to be able to get it out, but it will certainly hit before the hinge breaks off. heavy top, butt is 40" or more, stem is around 40' to the top or less. any suggestions on face type?


Box cut face will keep it on the stump for longer. Humboldt with a snipe should keep it above the stump. I'm guessing you don't want it back over the stump?


----------



## treeslayer2003

no sir, that what i'm thinkin it will slide down hill if cut off but if it stays attached won't be able to break it off as it only gonna fall about 45 degrees till it hits the slope. I was thinkin block face too.
I hate beech lol.


----------



## HuskStihl

IcePick said:


> View attachment 332923


Nice stump Mr. Pick! I bet they're mostly all looking like that now


----------



## HuskStihl

bitzer said:


> Box cut face will keep it on the stump for longer. Humboldt with a snipe should keep it above the stump. I'm guessing you don't want it back over the stump?





treeslayer2003 said:


> no sir, that what i'm thinkin it will slide down hill if cut off but if it stays attached won't be able to break it off as it only gonna fall about 45 degrees till it hits the slope. I was thinkin block face too.
> I hate beech lol.


Awesome boys! Keep talking shop, I'm listening. So the sniped Humboldt or block will help it slide off the uphill side of the stump and not go down the hill. What's the lean, will you be able to chase the hinge far enough to keep it from sticking on the stump? To bad Gologit doesn't understand hardwoods


----------



## bitzer

treeslayer2003 said:


> no sir, that what i'm thinkin it will slide down hill if cut off but if it stays attached won't be able to break it off as it only gonna fall about 45 degrees till it hits the slope. I was thinkin block face too.
> I hate beech lol.


Well if you want it to break the hinge and stay above the stump you can put in a full face Dutchman with a steep Humboldt and snipe. I usually will put the Dutchman an inch or two deep all the way across the face. Bore out the heart to help with the fiber pull. You've got to have it cut up pretty tight as well. This will get the hinge to break quickly and the Humboldt/snipe combo will keep the butt above the stump. The snipe should be in the stump not the butt. You will have to high stump this thing a little to get it there though. I know exactly the type of situation you're talkin about. Up hill with a big topped beech like that. Some beech can be so nice, **** straight and with a little top. Others just a huge umbrella.


----------



## bitzer

I really got to get to fixn ****!


----------



## Metals406

bitzer said:


> Box cut face will keep it on the stump for longer. Humboldt with a snipe should keep it above the stump. I'm guessing you don't want it back over the stump?



I'll parrot this and add, that I've never cut beech -- only seen it cut on videos.

Another quick way to hold one on, in these parts anyway, is to do an open face -- but don't meet at the back. Have them an inch or two apart and knock the pie out with your axe. That taller fiber column in the back really bends. It's one less cut than a box cut or any other face with a snipe anyway.

A guy kinda does that too when you miss, & don't want to recut and possibly mess up the gun -- so you just pound the face out.


----------



## treeslayer2003

yea, huge top. I wouldn't fool with it but the LO wants it gone. ima have to git gone quik on this one. yer right on on the humbolt n snipe I think to get it broke and on the ground.


----------



## HuskStihl

Metals406 said:


> I'll parrot this and add, that I've never cut beech -- only seen it cut on videos.
> 
> Another quick way to hold one on, in these parts anyway, is to do an open face -- but don't meet at the back. Have them an inch or two apart and knock the pie out with your axe. That taller fiber column in the back really bends. It's one less cut than a box cut or any other face with a snipe anyway.
> 
> A guy kinda does that too when you miss, & don't want to recut and possibly mess up the gun -- so you just pound the face out.


That's my standard face! Turns out I just need the correct situation to not make it a **** up


----------



## Metals406

HuskStihl said:


> That's my standard face! Turns out I just need the correct situation to not make it a **** up



Hahaha. . . We should name it the OSHF. The 'oh **** Husky face' -- but the acronym sounds a lot more professional.


----------



## HuskStihl

When Bitz says "full face Dutchman" that's extending your gunning cut an inch or so past the bottom cut evenly all the way across? Would you put the back cut above this or even with it? Sorry for being a dork, but we've been doing the husky vs Stihl/how do I sharpen/should I port this? thing for what seems like months


----------



## treeslayer2003

Jon i'll leave terminology to some one who knows it better. far as the back cut, I would put it higher if I was to jump it wich I won't cuz I jus can't move fast as I used to. I think if every thing else is right it probably wouldn't help a lot.


----------



## northmanlogging

treeslayer2003 said:


> I hope y'all still here, can't see ya. I gotta cut a big beech tomorrow on the side of a slope. I need it up hill to be able to get it out, but it will certainly hit before the hinge breaks off. heavy top, butt is 40" or more, stem is around 40' to the top or less. any suggestions on face type?



Humboldt with the full dutch, or underhand block face (like a humboldt mixed with a block face). IF you go with the humbloldt, and I hope I'm not to late... make the bottom slope cut steep, not much you can do about a low stump on this one except come back and cut it lower. Never cut beech, but from the sound of it its not fun.




HuskStihl said:


> When Bitz says "full face Dutchman" that's extending your gunning cut an inch or so past the bottom cut evenly all the way across? Would you put the back cut above this or even with it? Sorry for being a dork, but we've been doing the husky vs Stihl/how do I sharpen/should I port this? thing for what seems like months



Full face Dutch is basically having both sides of the slope cut fall short of the gun cut, if done intentionally it can help pop the hold wood early, and let the butt move freely, works good for falling into obstacles, like gullys, or into a big mess of other screwed up hung up trees. Or in this case popping the hold wood before the tree runs out of ground.

As a note of caution, full dutch's can help cause a barber chair, especially when they are made too large, stalling the tree rather then popping the hold wood.


----------



## treeslayer2003

you are right, that's why bitz said to gut the heart a bit. and yes beech will bust.


----------



## bitzer

I haven't seen one chair, but they will split out easily enough. Personally I like cutting beech. Well the nice straight ones anyway. Cuts fast. What are the chances that its not going to be a big rotten sob inside Mike? Around here any beech over 30" seems to be a culvert. 

Yes you do have to watch it on the full face dutch for chairing. I typically only go in about chain depth or so. Like bypass all the way across until I can't see the chain anymore. Definitely heart bore. Christ I'm beat. Gotta hit it boys!


----------



## treeslayer2003

man beech is hard here like white oak or hickory. and yea I have seen lots of um hollow but not on this tract. I think its solid.


----------



## northmanlogging

I'll go about an inch or so deep, depending on tree size. Only done it unintentionally on alders... it wasn't pretty...


----------



## treeslayer2003

ugly beech is down. wound up using a block as a proper humbolt I couldn't reach the back cut. all went well, its waiting to go on a truck. thanks fellas.
oh, bitz it was 39" where I cut it and had about a two inch wide soft spot in the center....I ain't cutting it off, it goin on the load.


----------



## bitzer

Good to hear! That's amazing to me that it was that sound. I put beech in the category of ash and elm for hardness. They all seem to cut fast for me. To me white oak is easier cutting than red. Hickory really isn't that bad either speed wise. Although shagbark likes to throw chains and crap in your face. Overall the worst on the stump for me is hard maple. I cut a job a couple of years ago that was 7 or 8 truck loads of beech. The whole woods was beech. It was in spring time just as things were startin to leaf out. Lots of rain. I felt like I was in Sherwood forest.


----------



## treeslayer2003

see, white oak is much harder than red here. no hard maple tho I never cut one. tulip poplar is softest thing here then gum and pine. every thing else is pretty hard. this woods was full of beech, the foresters tell us to cut it hard because the older generation didn't cut it at all and it kinda took over otherwise good hardwood ground. I guess they are pretty old....may be why they hard.
oh, to give you a comparison ash just a bit harder than poplar.....beech much harder.


----------



## 1270d

I agree that beech saws real nice. Beech bark disease has been moving through for quite a while so most of ours is or has been salvage cut. I've worked a few blocks of it with the harvester , ugh. Real Limby and heavy as lead. Only value is tie logs and pulp around here. 

Beech nuts are tasty, but small for the effort.


----------



## 1270d

Some decent hemi's on this job. All getting pulped on this site though due to shake.


----------



## bitzer

Eventually I will be sittin in one of those all day. At least that's my long term plan. I still like hand cutting for now. In ten years I may be singin a different tune.


----------



## treeslayer2003

Bob, I don't think they ever made a cutter to handle the biggest ones. I have a bell but use it very little.


----------



## bitzer

The big timber will run out eventually right? My forester seems to keep finding it for me, but it worries me when he says we used to cut jobs like this all the time back in the 70s and 80s. Even the 90s. I always hear of other pieces that will never sell that have huge timber on em. It just seems inevitable though.


----------



## treeslayer2003

not as long as we leave small ones. no tree cut for fire wood will ever get big. I have watched oak trees we left when I started grow till I cut um last few years. there will always be trees bro.


----------



## 1270d

there will always be work for a good saw hand, they're pretty scarce around here. theres still plenty of hacks. 
our timber tends to run less than 24 inch though. If we get into a stand with a lot of wood bigger than 24, we get a faller in to tip the big ones and limb them. i then process them up on my way through with the harvester. I can buck up to 30 inch with the head shown in the pic. if the timber is REAL nice, i cut it myself with my trusty(and theses days dusty) 385. 
I just had my best day ever in the harvester not long ago, 14.7 cords an hour.


----------



## 1270d

that hemlock was 22 or 23 inch. something like that


----------



## treeslayer2003

1270d said:


> that hemlock was 22 or 23 inch. something like that


 you cut mostly pine? there must be some bigger hard wood up there?


----------



## 1270d

treeslayer2003 said:


> you cut mostly pine? there must be some bigger hard wood up there?




hardly any pine. we cut probably 90% hardwood. Majority of which is hard and soft maple, with a mix of yellow/white birch, cherrry, ash, oak, beech and aspen. around here, if hardwood gets into the high 20's diameter and larger, odds are its rotten or all heart. if they're over 30 they usually left for wildlife or seed stock. new page pulp must fit through a 24 inch tube, or will be rejected as oversize. verso will take up to 30. 

the largest specie we have is white pine, but the market is really soft for WP sawlogs, so most of it gets left standing. One company we cut for takes some out, I cut maybe 80,000 ft last year. Almost all of the good stands were cut out of the UP starting in the late 1800's up till the 1970's.

Red pine is mostly grown in plantations here on fed or state ground. Those sales are usually out of range for the small to medium size companies. You need the big volume bonuses to afford to pay more for stumpage than the mills are offering.


----------



## bitzer

I'm not worried about no trees, just the big timber being gone. Like the last two jobs I just cut. The majority of it was red and white oak 25-36 inches on the stump. I've got a soft maple job coming up with the same size on the stump. Should be fun. 

1270- I didn't realize you could buck em that big. I've never seen a processor in action so I really have no clue of what they are capable of. Very interesting. 14+ cords per hour is a **** ton of wood! That's got to be like 40-50 trees per hour?


----------



## treeslayer2003

1270d said:


> hardly any pine. we cut probably 90% hardwood. Majority of which is hard and soft maple, with a mix of yellow/white birch, cherrry, ash, oak, beech and aspen. around here, if hardwood gets into the high 20's diameter and larger, odds are its rotten or all heart. if they're over 30 they usually left for wildlife or seed stock. new page pulp must fit through a 24 inch tube, or will be rejected as oversize. verso will take up to 30.
> 
> the largest specie we have is white pine, but the market is really soft for WP sawlogs, so most of it gets left standing. One company we cut for takes some out, I cut maybe 80,000 ft last year. Almost all of the good stands were cut out of the UP starting in the late 1800's up till the 1970's.
> 
> Red pine is mostly grown in plantations here on fed or state ground. Those sales are usually out of range for the small to medium size companies. You need the big volume bonuses to afford to pay more for stumpage than the mills are offering.


 pulping 20" + trees? dang, would not be better as grade logs? now I know why y'all talk in cords instead of feet.
I been cutting that size stuff over a year now Bob, on these jobs any thing under 20" I been leaving. dad did the same thing when he cut it 30 years back.


----------



## bitzer

All those guys up north talk in cords. Up north to me is anything north of Stevens Point (northern half of WI and up). I've tried talkin bf with some and they look at me kinda funny. Yeah my forester leaves some pretty nice timber behind. I suppose if they can gain a 1/4" to 1/2" a year I should be cutting some nice stands in the future.


----------



## 1270d

if you laid eyes on the stuff we pulp it would be clear. Junk. if it makes a sawlog, believe me it gets sorted. Our buncher crew works in some heavy duty harwood saw timber though. nice stuff.

bitz if you're ever travelling through, let me know, ill be more than happy to take you for a ride in the harvester.


----------



## bitzer

I can picture the type of wood your cutting. Sounds like what they have in northern- central WI. I appreciate the offer! How much snow you guys have? We've only got about 15-18" in the woods right now. We never really had a big snow down here this year.


----------



## 1270d

Measured the snow for fun, 22 inches. Not too bad at all.
Lots of this kind of wood


----------



## paccity

not to be rude but in burv's thread i would rather see hand falling not the bane of the faller.


----------



## Gologit

paccity said:


> not to be rude but in burv's thread i would rather see hand falling not the bane of the faller.



Agree. I don't know where Burv is these days but we owe him better than that.
They're fine machines if you want to put a lot of wood on the ground in a hurry but they don't really have much to do with falling.

They're about the only piece of logging machinery I've never run or owned. I don't really want to, either.


----------



## 1270d

Ok


----------



## bitzer

I posted this last night so I'll give this another shot. 

A few pages back this thread was full of subarus. That along with a bunch of harry homeowner,"hows my stump look?" pics and a few arborist style pics this thread has really veered here and there from the badass falling pics thread that Burvol originally intended. I do think its kind of cool to learn about how other guys are putting their wood down and in my state the processor guys are of no threat to me. I'm chasin sawlogs and they are chasing pulp. I don't think that's going to change here. In the southern part of the state where I live its pretty much hand cut big timber. Up north you'd be hard pressed to stay competitive hand cutting pulp. I think you'd be hard pressed to survive really. That being said when I walk into an SFI cert meeting I can immediately tell the few hand fallers from the guys who sit in machines all day. Hand fallers are becoming the minority and that's really not all that bad for those of us who want to keep doing it. There is no lack of logging work here. The sawmills are starving for logs and they are running out of guys to cut em. If anything I'd kinda like to know what the pulp guys are up to to kind of keep an eye on em. Really we just need some new guys to step up and post some timber falling pics in this thread. Either that or the old guys need to dig up some more pics. I could go on a picture posting rant, but lately I don't have the time and my bs pics can get kinda boring. 

Well not quite as eloquent as last night, but the meat is there with some additions.


----------



## bitzer

All right here are some pretty stump pics from my stump snuff collection- These were all full throttle back cuts. Some back bar some dogged in. No cheatin with wedges!


----------



## treeslayer2003

I agree bitz, but maybe we should post some stuff in the not so pro thread? just so every one is happy.
and I will try to remember the camera on this next job if it ever dries up to work.
stick around 1270d.


----------



## treeslayer2003

how did ya like that cannon? and where can I find a multi rivet tip cannon?


----------



## bitzer

Heres some cheater pics. Had to wedge these so I had all day to square up to the hinge.













This one is bore cut. About 2 and half years ago. Man what was I thinkin?!


----------



## bitzer

treeslayer2003 said:


> how did ya like that cannon? and where can I find a multi rivet tip cannon?


Its heavy, but the damn thing never wears. This one is the Stihl mount big tip. My saw shop said he gave it to me at cost for $225. The single rivet tipped bars go for about $150. I can't believe there is that much of difference in price over a tip, but I don't know. You could probably call Madsens and see what they could do for you. I have not tried to contact Cannon myself so I am not sure if individuals can even buy single bars. For some reason I'm guessing no though. My shop got set up as a dealer when I went through a couple of their Oregon bars that I was not happy with.


----------



## Plankton

No new pictures from me, I should be finishing up this job off with some big(ish) pines this week see if I can get some pictures of those. I've been either cutting pulp or been snowed out these last few weeks. , Some saw logs in there, nothin worth dragging a camera out for though. The mill is going to close soon so were gettin our asses back in gear



one of my favorites from last winter big ol school marm





and one from my current job a few weeks ago I liked how this tree was kinked it fit right in







happy sawdust making!


----------



## treeslayer2003

seems all I see are single rivet, I really prefer multi rivet. I wonder if they have wide or narrow tips


----------



## Plankton

nice stumps bitzer, those are some pretty ash in that second post, they dont grow them that fat around here!


----------



## bitzer

treeslayer2003 said:


> seems all I see are single rivet, I really prefer multi rivet. I wonder if they have wide or narrow tips


I would guess if they have the wide multi rivet they'd have the narrow? I don't really know.


----------



## bitzer

Plankton said:


> nice stumps bitzer, those are some pretty ash in that second post, they dont grow them that fat around here!


Thank you sir! That one with the orange wedges on it is a basswood. Those really low stumps are from my first fall and winter of production logging. I just don't have the time or patience (or money) to do that anymore. A lot of guys around here still do though. I wish I had the pine to cut like you do. Those big white pine always look like fun to me!


----------



## treeslayer2003

i'll have to look around, this sugi is good but I wish it had a wider tip.
plankton, why didn't you fall them one at a time? don't look that high up.


----------



## treeslayer2003

I agree bitz, I don't cut stumps low as I used to either. a lot of times I wound up butting off a punky spot any how so why cut it twice....


----------



## bitzer

treeslayer2003 said:


> I agree bitz, I don't cut stumps low as I used to either. a lot of times I wound up butting off a punky spot any how so why cut it twice....


That's exactly my thought. The wood just above the swell cuts faster too. When I quit cutting like that I was bagging another 1000 to 2000 bf per day. Its not hard to do the numbers there. Its just the hardwood cutting mindset of super low stumps that is tough to get around. I still get crap from some people about it.


----------



## Plankton

Big white pine is my favorite thing to cut they just come off the stump so predictably and they cut fast and smell good!

@treeslayer the answer is adrenaline junky and doing this was more fun and got the same results


----------



## bitzer

Springboardin will get yer blood up too man! So do you cut for a forwarder Plank?


----------



## treeslayer2003

I still get crap from dad about high stumps lol, thing is selling tree length our grade has come up with out me butting um off. and yea that burly wood in the low stump is hard....even poplar.
plankton, yea I just take less chances the older I get. I still do it once in a while tho lol.


----------



## Plankton

I wish I had timber to springboard into always looked like a fun challange.

I have never cut for a forwarder, around here all the forwarders are on machine cut sites as far as I can tell and all the hand falling is cable skidded. I only know of one outfit that has a grapple skidder but there mechanized too. Cutting for a cable skidder right now and for the foreseeable future.


----------



## IcePick

Slayer I gotta ask...you ever come across a post you don't like?


----------



## treeslayer2003

IP if I don't like it I won't like it. besides I assume its good for the site, I hate to see it ever go away. there is people here I don't see any where else.
edit; there have been times I couldn't cuz the site was wonky.....you ain't never said nuthin dumb lol.


----------



## IcePick

I was kidding. I was kind of hoping you were going to unlike that one.


----------



## Gologit

bitzer said:


> I posted this last night so I'll give this another shot.
> 
> A few pages back this thread was full of subarus. That along with a bunch of harry homeowner,"hows my stump look?" pics and a few arborist style pics this thread has really veered here and there from the badass falling pics thread that Burvol originally intended. I do think its kind of cool to learn about how other guys are putting their wood down and in my state the processor guys are of no threat to me. I'm chasin sawlogs and they are chasing pulp. I don't think that's going to change here. In the southern part of the state where I live its pretty much hand cut big timber. Up north you'd be hard pressed to stay competitive hand cutting pulp. I think you'd be hard pressed to survive really. That being said when I walk into an SFI cert meeting I can immediately tell the few hand fallers from the guys who sit in machines all day. Hand fallers are becoming the minority and that's really not all that bad for those of us who want to keep doing it. There is no lack of logging work here. The sawmills are starving for logs and they are running out of guys to cut em. If anything I'd kinda like to know what the pulp guys are up to to kind of keep an eye on em. Really we just need some new guys to step up and post some timber falling pics in this thread. Either that or the old guys need to dig up some more pics. I could go on a picture posting rant, but lately I don't have the time and my bs pics can get kinda boring.
> 
> Well not quite as eloquent as last night, but the meat is there with some additions.



I just PMd 1270d about the stuff we talking about last night. He can share the PM with you guys if you want...that's fine with me.

There's not as much resentment of mechanical harvesting as you think. There's some for sure but most of us realize that there are times when mechanical is the only way to go. That's not to say we like it...we sure as hell don't...but this business is changing and you either change with it or get left behind.

That being said...the old time springboard, ax, and misery whip guys resented the hell out of chainsaws and the fact that they cost people their jobs. The bull whackers hated the first Cats that showed up in the woods. The steam yarder guys hated the diesel. The logging railroad folks hated the trucks. Some of us don't like feller bunchers and never will. But they're here. And they're here to stay.


----------



## JakeG

I'm a part timer trying to learn from you all. There darn sure isn't anyone to learn from around here, they're all mechanized. 

Basic stuff


----------



## bitzer

Gologit said:


> I just PMd 1270d about the stuff we talking about last night. He can share the PM with you guys if you want...that's fine with me.
> 
> There's not as much resentment of mechanical harvesting as you think. There's some for sure but most of us realize that there are times when mechanical is the only way to go. That's not to say we like it...we sure as hell don't...but this business is changing and you either change with it or get left behind.
> 
> That being said...the old time springboard, ax, and misery whip guys resented the hell out of chainsaws and the fact that they cost people their jobs. The bull whackers hated the first Cats that showed up in the woods. The steam yarder guys hated the diesel. The logging railroad folks hated the trucks. Some of us don't like feller bunchers and never will. But they're here. And they're here to stay.



I thought about the axe and cross cut guys in relation to chainsaws when this was brought up. Also how many jobs were replaced by skidders and such. I just wanted to show where I stand. My being younger and new to logging shows up in my posts for sure. All this mech stuff has been around as long as I have even had an interest in logging. I've also read a lot of books on the history of logging as well so I understand the entire picture, but I didn't live it. I'm glad you're back Bob. I damn near quit the site a few weeks ago. Too much to do and not much going on around here. Well, I gotta get to sharpenin and fixin and packin for tomorrow. No one ever thinks about the preparation side of logging when they get a hair in their ass to kill some timber for the first time.


----------



## Gologit

bitzer said:


> Well, I gotta get to sharpenin and fixin and packin for tomorrow. No one ever thinks about the preparation side of logging when they get a hair in their ass to kill some timber for the first time.



Yup, that's one of the things they never show on AxMen ...all the super early hours and late night hours.


----------



## paccity

Gologit said:


> I just PMd 1270d about the stuff we talking about last night. He can share the PM with you guys if you want...that's fine with me.
> 
> There's not as much resentment of mechanical harvesting as you think. There's some for sure but most of us realize that there are times when mechanical is the only way to go. That's not to say we like it...we sure as hell don't...but this business is changing and you either change with it or get left behind.
> 
> That being said...the old time springboard, ax, and misery whip guys resented the hell out of chainsaws and the fact that they cost people their jobs. The bull whackers hated the first Cats that showed up in the woods. The steam yarder guys hated the diesel. The logging railroad folks hated the trucks. Some of us don't like feller bunchers and never will. But they're here. And they're here to stay.


yup bob. i was not trying to put anyone down on my original post, i was just making a statement that the thread was drifting badly off topic. would be nice to have burv pop in now and then .


----------



## Gologit

paccity said:


> yup bob. i was not trying to put anyone down on my original post, i was just making a statement that the thread was drifting badly off topic. would be nice to have burv pop in now and then .



Yup. Wherever he is I hope he's doing well.


----------



## Metals406

Last I heard, he met a gal and was still on the saw.


----------



## northmanlogging

Man its good to have most everyone back...

Anyone heard from rounder, he usually checked in on fridays, hasn't in awhile though.


----------



## Metals406

Sam (Rounder) might be shut down with winter snow and such.


----------



## mdavlee

bitzer said:


> I would guess if they have the wide multi rivet they'd have the narrow? I don't really know.



The super bar plus is the stihl wide nose tip. I guess they have to buy the tip from stihl and then build the bar with a different bell to it to match the wider tip. Madsens said they had the super bar plus last time I called at the same price as the Oregon style tip but I'm not sure if he was right or not.


----------



## OlympicYJ

Was just gonna chime in on the Cannons and ask ya Bitz how you liked it. Heavy is the reaction from everyone then they lament how durable they are. Stihl style tip is wider for sure. Why you guys wanting the wider tip? I've kinda preferred a narrower tip to reduce kickback but I honestly don't know how much difference it makes as I'm no faller. Like everyone else I've been missing the good falling pics and falling discussions among pro's with us wannabes chiming in asking too. 

Hopefully I'll have some Alder pics to throw up this summer. Were talking about going after the slicers and maybe 5 acres. Going home on break to help the old man with some firewood and spend a couple days with the forester I'll be working with this summer. Headed for Eugene and the Oregon Logging Conference tomorrow. Maybe there'll be some saws to check out. I'll have to report back.


----------



## HuskStihl

northmanlogging said:


> Man its good to have most everyone back...
> 
> Anyone heard from rounder, he usually checked in on fridays, hasn't in awhile though.


I got a PM from Jolly Jeff today. Said he's crazy busy at the moment. I have been guilty of posting silly stuff in this thread, but mostly because I wanted to keep it alive. This thread is where I met allay'all, and I hope it gets back to its former glory. I actually enjoyed being "Tramped" off this thread by TB and Bitz for too much silliness a year ago. Watching y'all trade pics and ideas in a courteous and respectful manner is what got me hooked on AS in the first place. I'll reserve my silly stuff for other locales, and lord knows there's some stupid stuff being posted on AS these days


----------



## mdavlee

Here you go guys http://www.cannonbar.com/chainsawbars/csb_superbarplus.html


----------



## northmanlogging

I'd post more pics and stuff, just been kinda under the gun the last month or so, not much daylight to be playing around with the camera, and too damn muddy to be wasting time.

Gots some alders I might try making a vid of the coos vs SSD (Swedish Stump Dance)... we'll have to see.


----------



## OlympicYJ

Gonna give the coos a try compared to a non SSD bore. Hoping to get the chance to try a sis out too... maybe. I'll probably just end up splitting/splattering it all over the lay. I guess one or two can be sacrificed in the name of learning. No slicer sacrifices though. Hey North you run into any slicers on your jobs? If'n ya are I can put you in contact with some guys from Stanwood. They buy it in a long log cut the slicer out and then pay sawlog for the rest.


----------



## northmanlogging

Ah yup, think the dude I go through is out of Sultan, tags along with the self loader jockey, has him load his truck with the creamy stuff, then whats left goes to the regular mills First name starts with an A, I'm allways open to new markets though.

Sis works fairly well in alder, just make the verical cut pretty long and don't try to swing em as far as you would say a Hemlock or Dougie, they are just to damn brittle, and give them a huge open face, Stalling is very bad with alder... And by fairly well I mean you can get a few extra feet out of a swing but if you push it to far they will chair extra bad...


----------



## bitzer

Heres the landing from the last job. About 55,000 bf of red and white oak. Since its in a parking lot it won't get hauled until break up. I must of scratched up my phone's camera. Everything is kinda blurry lately. Sucky.




Some from today-

This job has an incredible amount of basswood. One of the nicer ones from today. Man this job is cutting out fast.




Some coon is getting awfully pist right now. I knocked down his favorite night spot. White oak leaner. She came down like sack of crap.




These are always fun to buck. They like to kick out here and there. 4 10s in this one.


----------



## Erock

Decent lodgepole. When I cut the face it seemed pretty hard so before doing the backcut I took out the heart wood so it would go a little easier. Openface cut was just to keep the dust off lining up a humbolt. Turned out pretty good I think. I had to go to the rock with this one. Canopy was ready to hang this one up in all directions except over the rock (why wouldn't it). Tried to cut level with the top of the rock but obviously I should've went up another foot and a half.


----------



## bitzer

Nice work Erock! They have lodgepole in MN?


----------



## treeslayer2003

bitz, we ain't got bass wood. it is soft? dang ya got a lot of them oak rainbows there.
erock, looks good to me. lots of times our cuts ain't perfect but technique is right. look like ya got done what ya wanted. I have much respect for you guys cutting in the fire.


----------



## bitzer

Basswood is like cutting white pine. Well almost that fast. They can grow really straight with almost no taper. Just a stick and a top. They can also grow all kinds of ugly crooked and all taper.


----------



## 1270d

basswood is super soft. cuts like a dream


----------



## 1270d

what kind of market do you have for basswood bitz. we ship some sawlogs for door cores or some such. pulp mills dont like it due to the bark


----------



## treeslayer2003

looks kinda like our yellow poplar witch goes for veneer.


----------



## HuskStihl

bitzer said:


> Basswood is like cutting white pine. Well almost that fast. They can grow really straight with almost no taper. Just a stick and a top.


Sounds like the sweet gum which is all over here


----------



## bitzer

1270d said:


> what kind of market do you have for basswood bitz. we ship some sawlogs for door cores or some such. pulp mills dont like it due to the bark


All the sawlogs go to the mill. I'm really not sure what they do with em. I know their trucker peels em with the log truck's grapple rather than runnin em through the de-barker. The pulp stays in the woods. My pulp mill won't take it and trying to sell it for firewood its just not worth the effort. I've heard that some guys sell it to make mulch. I can't imagine there is a lot of money in it. I know it will go for pallet wood. Also great for carving- like duck decoys I've heard.


----------



## Erock

bitzer said:


> Nice work Erock! They have lodgepole in MN?



No sir, this is in Wyoming. About an hour south of Yellowstone


----------



## slowp

OK, guyses, I took Bitzer's lecture in the firewood section to heart. I started my thinning project today, after spending time cleaning up brush in the area. I call this the micro-crummy. I can take it over the drainfield to the work area.



Here is today's area of stand improvement. It was afternoon so I didn't intend on getting much done. 


First job, KILL THE VINE MAPLE. I have a question for you guys. When an vine maple is leaning, are we prone to make a slopping back cut? I am ashamed to admit that I made one on the vine maple. I am too ashamed to post the picture. The maple was bucked up and the alder was next.



I concentrated and got it cut without a slopping back cut. 


Here's the butt log.


The lay.



And the damage to the residual stand.



I stood it back up. Anyway, that's it for today. Most of the afternoon was spent burning brush. I also had to cut my way out. The micro crummy was blocked in!


----------



## Trx250r180

good looking stump ,and your hinge looks way more even then i ever get


----------



## northmanlogging

Lookin good Miss P (or is it Mrs?) I slope the vineys too mostly out of laziness and just cause they are in the way anyway... Should get out of the habit though, could be unhealthy for skidder tires...


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> OK, guyses, I took Bitzer's lecture in the firewood section to heart. I started my thinning project today, after spending time cleaning up brush in the area. I call this the micro-crummy. I can take it over the drainfield to the work area.
> View attachment 334683



I like that sticker on your hard hat.


----------



## hammerlogging

A handful of pictures from some recent jobs. 

This is all white pine

I like this site so I want to make an effort to make some posts


bucked at the stump for pickup


tall white pine


view from the job


nice and tall


face pic


white pine siswheel


----------



## HuskStihl

hammerlogging said:


> A handful of pictures from some recent jobs.
> 
> This is all white pine
> 
> I like this site so I want to make an effort to make some posts
> View attachment 334735
> 
> bucked at the stump for pickup
> View attachment 334736
> 
> tall white pine
> View attachment 334737
> 
> view from the job
> View attachment 334738
> 
> nice and tall
> View attachment 334739
> 
> face pic
> View attachment 334740
> 
> white pine siswheel


Nice pictures Joe. Is that NC or TN? Thx for posting


Mandatory judgement photo


----------



## hammerlogging

beautiful foggy morning on the north face timber, last summer


hard maple 


I would bet this was hard as rock and baout 250 years old. hickory


bored and pulled witht his uphill flare release cut from the under side 


big old cull with higher vale standing, probably 50" at the stump and 140' tall as is. probably a bear, a raccoon, and a possum family all vying for habitation right now


nice red oak bored through the face to get the far side cut


----------



## hammerlogging

well you asked for some pics, about time to share


----------



## hammerlogging

hickory is a pain for something like this, you need it off the stump when it hits the ground but you need an open face to protect the butt log


heres a fellow doing a good days work 


shadow pic 


a "mole trap" I made with the boys for fun, with help from a familiar supplier


I had a little job dumping about 2 acres of dead hemolock with these hangers all over the place


----------



## Metals406

slowp said:


> OK, guyses, I took Bitzer's lecture in the firewood section to heart. I started my thinning project today, after spending time cleaning up brush in the area. I call this the micro-crummy. I can take it over the drainfield to the work area.
> View attachment 334683
> 
> 
> Here is today's area of stand improvement. It was afternoon so I didn't intend on getting much done.
> View attachment 334684
> 
> First job, KILL THE VINE MAPLE. I have a question for you guys. When an vine maple is leaning, are we prone to make a slopping back cut? I am ashamed to admit that I made one on the vine maple. I am too ashamed to post the picture. The maple was bucked up and the alder was next.
> View attachment 334685
> 
> 
> I concentrated and got it cut without a slopping back cut.
> View attachment 334686
> 
> Here's the butt log.
> View attachment 334687
> 
> The lay.
> View attachment 334688
> 
> 
> And the damage to the residual stand.
> View attachment 334689
> 
> 
> I stood it back up. Anyway, that's it for today. Most of the afternoon was spent burning brush. I also had to cut my way out. The micro crummy was blocked in!



Don't forget to park where the fallers park.


----------



## slowp

Metals406 said:


> Don't forget to park where the fallers park.


 
That doesn't work. They make you move so more fallers can park there. Then the fallers for one outfit would plug up the road on their way out, which made the rigging crew a bit angry, because they tried to get the yarder walked in and set up while the shovel was on a setting a mile away. Unoriginal language was used. That is a falling faux pas, but that's not what the rigging crew said.


----------



## bitzer

Beautiful pictures Joe! Really great stuff. Makes me want to move south. Man that pine looks like fun! I wish I had some mixed stands around here. Its all plantation. Nothing that tall around here either. Those hangers will keep you on yer toes huh? So you catch the mole?


----------



## bitzer

HuskStihl said:


> Mandatory judgement photo


Yer corner is not high enough.


----------



## slowp

bitzer said:


> Beautiful pictures Joe! Really great stuff. Makes me want to move south. Man that pine looks like fun! I wish I had some mixed stands around here. Its all plantation. Nothing that tall around here either. Those hangers will keep you on yer toes huh? So you catch the mole?


 
Yup, the ground looks nice to work on. I want to know about the mole too. That looks like what we tried to catch birds with but if it works for moles, I've got a whole bunch of mounds to set boxes on.


----------



## bitzer

slowp said:


> OK, guyses, I took Bitzer's lecture in the firewood section to heart.


So you had an egg salad sandwich with jalapenos chopped in for lunch?


----------



## slowp

bitzer said:


> So you had an egg salad sandwich with jalapenos chopped in for lunch?


 
I was out of eggs. I guess I flunked.


----------



## bitzer

slowp said:


> I was out of eggs. I guess I flunked.


Ah well, you get extra credit for showing the "aftermath" to the residual stand. I would say I whip up a pretty mean sandwich about twice a year. That's about all my stomach can handle though.


----------



## treeslayer2003

bitzer said:


> Yer corner is not high enough.


 do you mean he needs to drop the file handle down a bit?


----------



## treeslayer2003

hammer I been wonderin what you was doin. great pics. I woulda thought you had yellow pine down there?


----------



## HuskStihl

bitzer said:


> Yer corner is not high enough.


how do i make it higher?


----------



## mdavlee

Nice pictures Joe. We need to get together this summer sometime.


----------



## bitzer

HuskStihl said:


> how do i make it higher?


I think like Mike said, drop the handle. Its been such a long time since I hand filed. The arrow is pointing to where your file terminated I believe. Unless its due to the camera. The corner should be right at the top where the side and top plate meet. That corner can make a big difference. I'm no chain sharpening guru, but when a chain is not preforming how I know it can it drives me nuts. It can really ruin my day if I was too tired/lazy to really get my chains ripping. Not saying ur lazy Jon. That's just me!


----------



## treeslayer2003

you run round chain Bob?
I drop the handle about 10 degrees to get a bit of self feed and not so much hook.


----------



## bitzer

Yes I do. I just haven't gotten around to makin the switch. I'd like to, but I don't have the cash to throw at a square grinder and learning to hand file it (or any hand filing in general) makes me cringe.
When I round grind I use two different wheels. The second wheel puts a pretty aggressive angle on the top plate.


----------



## treeslayer2003

yea, same here but I do hand file every thing. I have a cheap grinder, it is crap. I might try a goofy file and square chain soon tho, I want to see if its faster.


----------



## HuskStihl

bitzer said:


> I think like Mike said, drop the handle. Its been such a long time since I hand filed. The arrow is pointing to where your file terminated I believe. Unless its due to the camera. The corner should be right at the top where the side and top plate meet. That corner can make a big difference. I'm no chain sharpening guru, but when a chain is not preforming how I know it can it drives me nuts. It can really ruin my day if I was too tired/lazy to really get my chains ripping. Not saying ur lazy Jon. That's just me!
> View attachment 334819


Thanks boys, that particular chain did *not *cut very well. I will pay attention to hitting that corner better


treeslayer2003 said:


> yea, same here but I do hand file every thing. I have a cheap grinder, it is crap. I might try a goofy file and square chain soon tho, I want to see if its faster.


Mike, the easiest way to find out if its gonna be worth it is to buy NQSHM some beer to mail you a chain. Not wanting to make more work for you "other Mike"


----------



## Trx250r180

HuskStihl said:


> Nice pictures Joe. Is that NC or TN? Thx for posting
> View attachment 334754
> 
> Mandatory judgement photo



Looks awfully round to me


----------



## mdavlee

HuskStihl said:


> Thanks boys, that particular chain did *not *cut very well. I will pay attention to hitting that corner better
> 
> Mike, the easiest way to find out if its gonna be worth it is to buy NQSHM some beer to mail you a chain. Not wanting to make more work for you "other Mike"



What loops do you use Mike? I'm sure I have a few extra 24" and some longer ones.


----------



## treeslayer2003

lol,28 n 32 or 91 and 105


----------



## mdavlee

Is it .050" or .063"?


----------



## treeslayer2003

105 is 63, 91 is 50. I tell ya what, if you got a good 105 and a file shoot me a price. I bet they need angles changed and you got that down pat.


----------



## mdavlee

I'll find out what is hanging around sharp Mike. I can't remember right off the top of my head but no 91 in .050" I know. I have some 105 in both.


----------



## HuskStihl

I bet this will pull a 20"


----------



## northmanlogging

Alder Coos vs. SSD Both trees roughly the same size. The Coos tree was leaning harder, and in worse shape than the SSD. Neither Tree split, although the SSD detonated on impact, and had more fiber pull.

Just don't mention the nearly falling on my ass bit... it was intentional really...


----------



## mdavlee

Nice show of balance there


----------



## HuskStihl

NM, awesome video man! You made both methods look easy. I liked how you didn't **** around with the coos' backcut after you had the side cuts done The firewood guys seem to have gotten the message that if you do the side cuts, u'r basically safe and can mosey thru the back cut in a leisurely fashion


----------



## rwoods

HuskStihl said:


> NM, awesome video man! You made both methods look easy. I liked how you didn't **** around with the coos' backcut after you had the side cuts done The firewood guys seem to have gotten the message that if you do the side cuts, u'r basically safe and can mosey thru the back cut in a leisurely fashion



Which message is all wrong for trees needing a Coo's or similar treatment. In my firewood hack book, "leisurely" is wrong for any back cut; especially dangerous for those species that are prone to barber chair but appear to have little lean. Ron


----------



## treeslayer2003

I think that's key Ron. when you decide what to do, do it and don't fool around. when i'm sure whats going on I cut the back quikly. obviously back leaners are different.
I believe Bob said something to this effect a while back.


----------



## rwoods

That is what I like about Bob's short video. He sizes the tree up then cuts it down. An oversimplification, but _*unnecessary*_ time at the cut just increases the odds that the cutter is going to get hurt or killed. Typically I don't run from trees but I do try to cut and get to a safe spot quickly. I believe I enjoy getting everything just so and watching a tree fall as much as any other but to be safe I can't always have it all. This is nothing you, and hopefully all on this thread, don't already know. I used to comment on both the chainsaw and firewood threads about unsafe advice but things get so jumbled up that I have quit. I hope that the serious learners (including the "never will be pros" like Jon and myself) will seek out sound advice from guys like you on this forum. I appreciate you guys putting up with us land-clearing hacks, firewood hacks or whatever you want to call us. Ron


----------



## treeslayer2003

its easy to put up with good dudes no mater what they do.


----------



## OlympicYJ

bitzer said:


> I think like Mike said, drop the handle. Its been such a long time since I hand filed. The arrow is pointing to where your file terminated I believe. Unless its due to the camera. The corner should be right at the top where the side and top plate meet. That corner can make a big difference. I'm no chain sharpening guru, but when a chain is not preforming how I know it can it drives me nuts. It can really ruin my day if I was too tired/lazy to really get my chains ripping. Not saying ur lazy Jon. That's just me!
> 
> View attachment 334819



Bob, his corner is there just the wire edge making it look low and flat.


----------



## Gologit

northmanlogging said:


> Alder Coos vs. SSD Both trees roughly the same size. The Coos tree was leaning harder, and in worse shape than the SSD. Neither Tree split, although the SSD detonated on impact, and had more fiber pull.
> 
> Just don't mention the nearly falling on my ass bit... it was intentional really...





Good cutting. Nice dance, too. You got any music for those fancy steps?


----------



## slowp

I deducted a point. We girls were forced to do a little balance beam thing in junior high. When you kick or dip your toes off the beam, you are supposed to point your toes.
Slight bobble, no pointed toes, a points deduction.


----------



## Gologit

rwoods said:


> That is what I like about Bob's short video. He sizes the tree up then cuts it down. An oversimplification, but _*unnecessary*_ time at the cut just increases the odds that the cutter is going to get hurt or killed. Typically I don't run from trees but I do try to cut and get to a safe spot quickly. I believe I enjoy getting everything just so and watching a tree fall as much as any other but to be safe I can't always have it all. This is nothing you, and hopefully all on this thread, don't already know. I used to comment on both the chainsaw and firewood threads about unsafe advice but things get so jumbled up that I have quit. I hope that the serious learners (including the "never will be pros" like Jon and myself) will seek out sound advice from guys like you on this forum. I appreciate you guys putting up with us land-clearing hacks, firewood hacks or whatever you want to call us. Ron




You and Jon are the exceptions to the "firewood hack" rule. Well, you are anyway. We're still not sure about Jon. There's some others that have pro attitudes and believe me when I say that they get their questions answered even if their skill level and experience doesn't approach ours. I get a lot of PMs and I try to answer their questions the best I can. They're the ones that are honestly looking for information and help. I think we have an obligation to those guys. Somebody taught us when were green, a lot of people helped us, and we should pay that forward.
That being said...when an idiot appears who doesn't want advice but just validation for some half baked idea that he thinks will solve his problems he might not get as much consideration as somebody like you or Jon. When they ask our advice and then argue with it and then argue _again_ when their errors in thinking or technique are exposed we tend to run out of patience real quick. I do anyway. Some of these guys are a lot more patient than I am.
There's a guy in Firewood now who thinks that using a jack on every tree, even if it's a leaner and being felled in the direction of lean, is the way to go. I think I better stay out of that one. My blood pressure is right where it should be. I like that.


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> I deducted a point. We girls were forced to do a little balance beam thing in junior high. When you kick or dip your toes off the beam, you are supposed to point your toes.
> Slight bobble, no pointed toes, a points deduction.


 
I never fall down. I know you don't fall down. Nobody I know that works in the woods falls down. They don't fall down because _fall down_ doesn't even begin to describe some the end over end, gear going every which way, arms and legs flailing, hard hat flying off, trying to get the saw away from you, knuckle skinning, knee scraping, shin gouging, screaming obscenities, absolute train wrecks that happen occasionally 
But _fall down? _We never do that. Too ordinary.


----------



## rwoods

I read that thread. I've used a jack on a log to free a saw but never on a tree and never will - way beyond my pay grade. Did you note that he sometimes uses two jacks? Lot of attention needed from one guy. 

As a kid, I've been around failing jacks on the farm lifting equipment and such. I sure don't want to be around one much less two and a falling tree. Ron


----------



## northmanlogging

bah jacks aren't so bad, just have to be careful with em and be sure to back em up with a wedge or two.

As a side note I forgot to add in the vid post, I normally make my back cuts on the coos with the power head facing the same direction, or using the same side of the bar on all three cuts... This time I figured the saw would be in the way so I flipped it over...

Ms. P My toes where pointed you just couldn't see it through the boots. I'll see you all wherever the next summer olympics are being held...


----------



## northmanlogging

Here ya go bob


----------



## mdavlee

Some scary advice and videos in the firewood section. I like the good advice that the guys in this thread have.


----------



## treeslayer2003

I over looked the jack guy, now theres one who uses a load lock.......idk if I can handle that thread.


----------



## slowp

I posted my bad on the firewood forum. It wasn't a terrible bad, just showed how a tree can get off course when the hinge gets cut off.


----------



## HuskStihl

Gologit said:


> I never fall down. I know you don't fall down. Nobody I know that works in the woods falls down. They don't fall down because _fall down_ doesn't even begin to describe some the end over end, gear going every which way, arms and legs flailing, hard hat flying off, trying to get the saw away from you, knuckle skinning, knee scraping, shin gouging, screaming obscenities, absolute train wrecks that happen occasionally
> But _fall down? _We never do that. Too ordinary.


 That's called a "yard sale"


----------



## HuskStihl

Reach around Humboldt

For a variety of reasons (found in the fun firewood forum) this was the only place I felt comfortable standing, but couldn't really reach where I wanted to put my face. I stepped back to get a better perspective on things and kicked over my phone/camera mid stream.

BTW, I made that sound kinda dirty on purpose


----------



## HuskStihl

OlympicYJ said:


> Bob, his corner is there just the wire edge making it look low and flat.


 Bob was right, the corner's weren't very good. That chain cut for crap. I re-did it with more focus on really hitting that corner, and it took about 10 seconds off a 30" cut


----------



## treeslayer2003

slowp said:


> I posted my bad on the firewood forum. It wasn't a terrible bad, just showed how a tree can get off course when the hinge gets cut off.


 no not terrible, ya didn't chair it or hit any thing. ya shoulda used a loadlock I guess.


----------



## twochains

northmanlogging said:


> Alder Coos vs. SSD Both trees roughly the same size. The Coos tree was leaning harder, and in worse shape than the SSD. Neither Tree split, although the SSD detonated on impact, and had more fiber pull.
> 
> Just don't mention the nearly falling on my ass bit... it was intentional really...




Nice moves there big fella! LOL!


----------



## slowp

This is my bad. The tree going to the left was where both were aimed. Then I cut just a bit too much and tree 2 spun off course.


----------



## HuskStihl

slowp said:


> This is my bad. The tree going to the left was where both were aimed. Then I cut just a bit too much and tree 2 spun off course.
> View attachment 335395


 Shooooooot.....
That ain't nothin'! Come talk to me after you have to replace 40' of 4-board fencing. PITA


----------



## slowp

Fences, new pickups, buildings, skylines, etc. all have tractor beams which pull trees towards them.


----------



## 1270d

whats a load lock?


----------



## treeslayer2003

1270d said:


> whats a load lock?


 load retaining device used in semi box trailers. the fire wood guys seem to like it.


----------



## HuskStihl

Now, I am acutely aware of my lumberjacking skill and knowledge defecits, but this perfectly encapsulates my feelings about some of the folks who post there


----------



## northmanlogging

There is some tree equipment jerks selling a commercial version meant for tipping trees, saw a video of it once, looked heavy and acward, not to mention expensive and easy to loose.

I'm thinking of starting a new Pop Group, or maybe a dance routine on the lines of River dance, Only called Log Dance... with more topless dancers. and no scrawny irish dudes, just a bunch of hairy fat guys in spats... singing about lost loves and the mistakes of youth... People are gonna love it...


----------



## paccity

Gologit said:


> I never fall down. I know you don't fall down. Nobody I know that works in the woods falls down. They don't fall down because _fall down_ doesn't even begin to describe some the end over end, gear going every which way, arms and legs flailing, hard hat flying off, trying to get the saw away from you, knuckle skinning, knee scraping, shin gouging, screaming obscenities, absolute train wrecks that happen occasionally
> But _fall down? _We never do that. Too ordinary.


on the other hand some of us that are more seasoned don't fall down we lay down and take a nap. or two .


----------



## 1270d

there's some old logging tune with a line "hard work don't scare us, we can lay down right beside it and go to sleep" 
Maybe one of you will remember the title, I can't


----------



## 4x4American

its by buzz martin, i think its called strong winds and widow makers


----------



## Nuzzy

Gologit said:


> There's a guy in Firewood now who thinks that using a jack on every tree, even if it's a leaner and being felled in the direction of lean, is the way to go.




The scary thing for me is recognizing that people may unknowingly follow bad (or incomplete) advice and get themselves hurt or killed. For example, as soon as that guy mentioned jacking a tree, someone else popped up saying:


> I've never heard of this before, but you are saying that this was a common procedure in the old days? So basically, it does the same thing that wedges dobut with far more force and efficiency. I have a 50 ton Harbor Freight bottle jack I used once for jacking up huge structural beams on a sagging dairy barn. It's been sitting in the basement ever since. With a piece of half inch steel plate, maybe I'm ready to take down my next big scary oak?



Now left unchecked, this guy (or others reading in the future) may think this is the greatest trick in the history of firewooding and go for it, completely unaware of the potential pitfalls. Obviously jacks have a place, but there is more to the story, and being aware of the "more" is kind of important. 



I started out I firewood hack, but I genuinely wanted to learn the best and safest ways I could to accomplish what I needed. Had to sort through a bunch of BS, but found people over the years (and certainly in this F&L forum) that gave sound, obviously well respected advise. Read as much as I could, and cross referenced; sorted through the horror show of youtube to find some genuine fallers and studied their movements and processes. Now it's on my shoulders to put that to practice every time I go in the woods; remain a student; keep learning all I can from the Pros who have obviously done something right 'cause they're still alive and typing. In recent years, I've been able to take down some larger and more dangerous trees; been able to actually make a little money doing small selective jobs; been able to volunteer a lot of time and accomplish some things the organizations wouldn't have been able to do otherwise (or would've had to divert more time and already short funds). I really appreciate the time and effort many here put into sharing their valuable knowledge. I also genuinely hope some of that filters through to the farmers, firewooders, and my daddy says cutters; some of them just can't be helped; luckily others may still listen to reason and potentially save themselves from avoidable accidents.


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> Fences, new pickups, buildings, skylines, etc. all have tractor beams which pull trees towards them.



Amen on the new pickup. Especially when it's the boss's pickup.


----------



## DavdH

I have pictures to prove the tractor-beam theorem, they are on slides in a box somewhere! Power lines should be included, at least from my experience (experiments). Power lines, skidders, crumbys, not even to mention stream and wet-land exclusion areas, meadows, archeology zones, gas cans, fellers caches, ...


----------



## Gologit

DavdH said:


> I have pictures to prove the tractor-beam theorem, they are on slides in a box somewhere! Power lines should be included, at least from my experience (experiments). Power lines, skidders, crumbys, not even to mention stream and wet-land exclusion areas, meadows, archeology zones, gas cans, fellers caches, ...


 

And then comes the usual question as you're packing out through the landing..."Wind get ya'?" To which you reply, without pausing to stop, "Yeah".


----------



## OlympicYJ

HuskStihl said:


> Bob was right, the corner's weren't very good. That chain cut for crap. I re-did it with more focus on really hitting that corner, and it took about 10 seconds off a 30" cut



If I didn't include a "looks like wire edge to me" I should have. I will admit I'm no pro filer, get mine to cut strait and decently fast and I'm happy lol. Just a question though, did you wind up taking the rakers down when you re-filed it?


----------



## HuskStihl

OlympicYJ said:


> If I didn't include a "looks like wire edge to me" I should have. I will admit I'm no pro filer, get mine to cut strait and decently fast and I'm happy lol. Just a question though, did you wind up taking the rakers down when you re-filed it?



No, the pic Bitz diagrammed was fresh JGX. As soon as I get it outta the box I sharpen it and knock down the rakers. They seemed low enough on the second sharpening to not bother. I don't measure the depth tho, if the saw pulls me into the log and doesn't bog too much they're fine with me. Like most people, I can put a good edge on something when I want. Unfortunately, also like most people I don't really understand saw chain very well, so I'll never be much more than "seemed to cut good" or "didn't seem to cut so good" sorta guy. How's the engagement thing going BTW?


----------



## Trx250r180

HuskStihl said:


> No, the pic Bitz diagrammed was fresh JGX. As soon as I get it outta the box I sharpen it and knock down the rakers. They seemed low enough on the second sharpening to not bother. I don't measure the depth tho, if the saw pulls me into the log and doesn't bog too much they're fine with me. Like most people, I can put a good edge on something when I want. Unfortunately, also like most people I don't really understand saw chain very well, so I'll never be much more than "seemed to cut good" or "didn't seem to cut so good" sorta guy. How's the engagement thing going BTW?




when you get your chain dialed in ,you should not have to dog in to make the cuts ,it should self feed without being grabby


----------



## Trx250r180

Nice job on the coos Northman ,but where were your chains straps ,jacks cranes etc ,that vid was not dramaitic enough lol 


I like that cut ,it gets the job done fast ,nip nip down


----------



## Gologit

Trx250r180 said:


> Nice job on the coos Northman ,but where were your chains straps ,jacks cranes etc ,that vid was not dramaitic enough lol
> 
> 
> I like that cut ,it gets the job done fast ,nip nip down



Yup, not a bad job but he didn't yell "TIMBER" or do the obligatory manly man heroic pose on top of the stump either. All we got to see was the Log Dance. I'll give him an 8.5 on the cutting but only a 3 on entertainment.


----------



## northmanlogging

chains, jack, wedges, cable etc all in the crummy where they belong climbing gear is somewheres? think the neighbor still has it? I'll leave the ladders to Bob.


Well I did have wedges on me, but these didn't need em.


----------



## HuskStihl

northmanlogging said:


> chains, jack, wedges, cable etc all in the crummy where they belong climbing gear is somewheres? think the neighbor still has it? I'll leave the ladders to Bob.
> 
> 
> *Well I did have wedges on me, but these didn't need em*.


That shows u'r inexperience. Wedges are most important on head leaners! They allow you to leave a thicker hinge and they protect you and your saw from backward jumping trees.


----------



## JakeG

HuskStihl said:


> That shows u'r inexperience. Wedges are most important on head leaners! They allow you to leave a thicker hinge and they protect you and your saw from backward jumping trees.



I didn't see a mingo marker either. Must be a noob


----------



## northmanlogging

JakeG said:


> I didn't see a mingo marker either. Must be a noob



what the Hel is a "mingo" marker?


----------



## treeslayer2003

LMAO........it a paint can with a wheel on it so dudes can cut they farwood the same length every time. cuz you know 17 instead of 16 just won't burn.


----------



## JakeG

treeslayer2003 said:


> LMAO........it a paint can with a wheel on it so dudes can cut they farwood the same length every time. cuz you know 17 instead of 16 just won't burn.



Ha! That's the one!


----------



## northmanlogging

Ah... I see, I got a spencer tape or two... does that count, except its kinda hard to stick a 34' log in the fire place, but I guess you would only need to spit it one time then just keep pushing it into the fire as it burns down, could make one stick last the better part of a week...


----------



## JakeG

nm, a 34' log might require leaving the front door open. OWB would solve that issue tho


----------



## Gologit

northmanlogging said:


> chains, jack, wedges, cable etc all in the crummy where they belong climbing gear is somewheres? think the neighbor still has it? I'll leave the ladders to Bob.
> 
> 
> Well I did have wedges on me, but these didn't need em.




No ladders!


----------



## Trx250r180

Gologit said:


> No ladders!


Last summer iI could not get my man lift to some firs Ihad to limb. I strapped the top of the ladder tight and limbed them up to about 20 feet up with that 044 and 32 inch bar .I felt bobs presence scolding me to get down .was it right no but it worked .if the top was not solid I would not have done it .


----------



## Metals406

Gologit said:


> Yup, not a bad job but he didn't yell "TIMBER" or do the obligatory manly man heroic pose on top of the stump either. All we got to see was the Log Dance. I'll give him an 8.5 on the cutting but only a 3 on entertainment.



Timber? I though we were supposed to yell "Holy ****" and run away?


----------



## bitzer

North- were those alders a little punky or do they normally cut that fast? With two feet of snow in the woods I try walkin on as much wood as I can right now. I've been doing a lot of that fancy dancing myself.


----------



## 1270d

bitzer said:


> North- were those alders a little punky or do they normally cut that fast? With two feet of snow in the woods I try walkin on as much wood as I can right now. I've been doing a lot of that fancy dancing myself.



a few years back I hired on piece cutting hardwood for a guy in winter. snow was crotch deep so we started cutting on snowshoes. have to walk pigeon toed down the logs. the shoes work very good for walking in the tops and over brush.


----------



## bitzer

I've heard of guys doing that. How do you run?


----------



## 1270d

Im pretty tall so i dont have much trouble running with snowshoes. I always walked in my escape route for less chance of a stumble.


----------



## northmanlogging

bitzer said:


> North- were those alders a little punky or do they normally cut that fast? With two feet of snow in the woods I try walkin on as much wood as I can right now. I've been doing a lot of that fancy dancing myself.



Thats just a sharp chain and green alder, with perhaps too much saw... Thanks to the Junk Man for the chain, think its the last one he did for me, and its got a couple days of cutting on it already...

If your not used to alder or if you've been cutting fir or hemlock all day its pretty easy to overdue the face cuts and get yer saw stuck pretty bad, Alders pretty much always lean hard somewhere, so overcutting doesn't take much, since the idea is to make a huge face anyway.

To put it in perspective the Fir and Hemlock is harder then some species of maple, and nearly on par with our big leaf maples. The alder cuts about like ponderosa pine, without the sap or pointy needles.


----------



## slowp

Mature, nice alder being cut on a very windy day. I forgot my tripod, sorry.


----------



## OlympicYJ

Alder and Maple tend to cut pretty easy when green but once they dry out a bit they are pretty hard. Oregon ash is an easy cutter when green too. My uncle brought up some oak and it's seasoned for several years and let me tell you it's hard!


----------



## treeslayer2003

here ya go, mother nature did most of the heart gutting.


----------



## treeslayer2003

this will be almost last so I don't have to deal with the huge top.


----------



## treeslayer2003

hope we don't get no more rain.


----------



## Nuzzy

treeslayer2003 said:


> View attachment 336237
> this will be almost last so I don't have to deal with the huge top.





Sometimes I miss cutting in woods that look like that.


----------



## HuskStihl

TS, you just never seem to be in crap timber. Great pics, thanks!


----------



## treeslayer2003

HuskStihl said:


> TS, you just never seem to be in crap timber. Great pics, thanks!


 oh it will happen lol. been fortunate lately.
Eric, this is exceptional open woods. most here are full of undergrowth. this needs thinning.


----------



## treeslayer2003

Jon I was thinkin of you but I can't seem to shoot vids, ya hafta make due with pics.


----------



## rwoods

It is good to see falling pictures from someone who knows what they are doing. Sometimes I can post pictures that look like I know what I am doing but please don't be fooled. Ron


----------



## treeslayer2003

lol Ron. it is not a perfect stump but it is an average logger's stump.


----------



## 2dogs

Cody and his new hotrod. This one image doesn't tell the whole story of this tanoak, but this clean-up cut was 4'3".


----------



## Gologit

2dogs said:


> Cody and his new hotrod. This one image doesn't tell the whole story of this tanoak, but this clean-up cut was 4'3".




I see you put a light weight bar on it. How is that working out? Did you have to retune much when you switched from av-gas to auto gas?


----------



## slowp

Since extra weight was taken off with a light weight bar, more weight can be applied to the saw by adding bling and stickers.


----------



## 2dogs

slowp said:


> Since extra weight was taken off with a light weight bar, more weight can be applied to the saw by adding bling and stickers.



I don't know if a Marine Corps sticker will fit. Any other ideas?


----------



## 2dogs

Gologit said:


> I see you put a light weight bar on it. How is that working out? Did you have to retune much when you switched from av-gas to auto gas?


 Hasn't needed a retune yet. I really LW bars. I have a Stihl 28" LW on the MS440 too. It makes a huge difference for me esp at the end of the day. Esp esp when I am doing the cutting and Cody is running the big yellow equipment.


----------



## Gologit

2dogs said:


> I don't know if a Marine Corps sticker will fit. Any other ideas?



It has a Pratt and Whitney aircraft engine sticker on it now. For high altitude work, ya see. You can take it off over there at sea level.


----------



## Trx250r180

treeslayer2003 said:


> View attachment 336237
> this will be almost last so I don't have to deal with the huge top.




the ground looks really flat there


----------



## slowp

2dogs said:


> I don't know if a Marine Corps sticker will fit. Any other ideas?


 
I like the shiny, stick on jewels. When the sun is out, and I imagine it is more out in your area, it makes the jewels sparkle nicely and it is a cheery mood maker. The Hello Kitty and Darla the Explorer stickers came off in the rain. The Barbie stickers seem to have the most stickiness to them.


----------



## Trx250r180

Looks like it was moving day saturday ,followed 2 different shovels on the way home from work


----------



## treeslayer2003

Trx250r180 said:


> the ground looks really flat there


 like a pancake lol. xpept for gullys n ravines.


----------



## 2dogs

slowp said:


> I like the shiny, stick on jewels. When the sun is out, and I imagine it is more out in your area, it makes the jewels sparkle nicely and it is a cheery mood maker. The Hello Kitty and Darla the Explorer stickers came off in the rain. The Barbie stickers seem to have the most stickiness to them.


 Uh...maybe you could ask Benjamin Tud for his advice. Ya know, something more manly.


----------



## GRTimberCO

2dogs said:


> Hasn't needed a retune yet. I really LW bars. I have a Stihl 28" LW on the MS440 too. It makes a huge difference for me esp at the end of the day. Esp esp when I am doing the cutting and Cody is running the big yellow equipment.


 If you don't mind me asking, why the switch from AV-gas to high test? I run both, or usually an undeterminal mixture of both as the jug needs refilling.


----------



## Gologit

GRTimberCO said:


> If you don't mind me asking, why the switch from AV-gas to high test? I run both, or usually an undeterminal mixture of both as the jug needs refilling.



The saw went to a new owner. When I had it I ran avgas, as I do in all my saws. The new owner chooses not to. I ran avgas because it's easy for me to get and I had good luck with it. There might be availability issues where he lives. His saw, his choice.


----------



## treeslayer2003




----------



## treeslayer2003

funny how you can spot a mistake in a photo......I couldn't dog in at the corner to finish the face because of the little leave tree so I back bared to finish......did not meet so I had to block a little. still layed out perfectly. two 20' out the butt and a limb made 40' with a 18" top. the face isn't really as big as it looks, it had a pretty good flair to it.


----------



## treeslayer2003

no comments? wow.....maybe Bob will


----------



## Trx250r180

treeslayer2003 said:


> no comments? wow.....maybe Bob will


Did it turn at all falling ?


----------



## treeslayer2003

no sir, strait down. I faced it to miss a walnut sapling and to not fall in the field.......poplar tops explode on impact.....I hate pickin up sticks.


----------



## Gologit

treeslayer2003 said:


> no comments? wow.....maybe Bob will




Nope, no comment. I did grin a little when I saw the picture. Don't worry about it.
I've had stumps that were so ugly I told people that "my partner cut that one while I was changing my chain".
You know what you did wrong and that's good. It's the guys that do something like that and then stand there all proud and happy that might tend me toward making a comment or two. If they have the balls to do the obligatory photo op "pose on top of the stump with my saw and a manly-man serious expression" then it's open season. 

It's good to see that saw with a serious bar and cutting the wood it was meant to cut.


----------



## KenJax Tree

C'mon Bob you know braggin' and cuttin' cookies with a huge bar on a ported shelf queen is cool.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## HuskStihl

treeslayer2003 said:


> no comments? wow.....maybe Bob will


I'm appropriately impressed. That's the first stump of yours I've seen that didn't look like it was lined up with a t-square and a micrometer. If'n ya don't mind me asking, how long did it take to get the face out, and did you have to palm a wedge to keep the undercut open?


----------



## northmanlogging

Meh I'm sloppy, I didn't see anything wrong with it... Goes to show as long as you stop and chunk out rather then chase your cuts, it still goes where you want it to.

Nice to see more east coast guys figuring out the benefits of the humboldt, although you could use a longer bar


----------



## treeslayer2003

HuskStihl said:


> I'm appropriately impressed. That's the first stump of yours I've seen that didn't look like it was lined up with a t-square and a micrometer. If'n ya don't mind me asking, how long did it take to get the face out, and did you have to palm a wedge to keep the undercut open?


 mighta took 5-6 minutes for the whole fall. I always have a couple wedges in the back cut of a tree that size.
or do you mean in the face? no wedges in the face ever.


----------



## treeslayer2003

northmanlogging said:


> Meh I'm sloppy, I didn't see anything wrong with it... Goes to show as long as you stop and chunk out rather then chase your cuts, it still goes where you want it to.
> 
> Nice to see more east coast guys figuring out the benefits of the humboldt, although you could use a longer bar


 I have contemplated more bar.......but any more n it won't fit in any of the boxes lol. that is a 32.
I have a utility body but have a regular chest type box in the back......I hate for um to get rained on....LOL.


----------



## northmanlogging

treeslayer2003 said:


> mighta took 5-6 minutes for the whole fall. I always have a couple wedges in the back cut of a tree that size.
> or do you mean in the face? no wedges in the face ever.



I think what husk is getting at is using a wedge on the bottom of the face to help slip the chunk out, can be nice on some of the really big uns. Just stuff it in by hand don't use a hammer or anything.

Ole Tramp would use little sticks and make Flintstone wheels for it, then you don't have to pick up yer wedges.


----------



## HuskStihl

The few times I have cut gown big assed trees, the bottom face cut likes to close and pinch. It's fun when you need the tractor to get the face onto the trailer. Guess you could just do the bottom cut first


----------



## Gologit

HuskStihl said:


> The few times I have cut gown big assed trees, the bottom face cut likes to close and pinch. It's fun when you need the tractor to get the face onto the trailer. Guess you could just do the bottom cut first



Some people make the bottom cut of a Humboldt first if gunning to a tight lead isn't important. The only problem with making the bottom cut first is that if you don't wide-kerf and the wind is blowing the tree can set down hard on your bar. If you get the bar trapped in the undercut you'll probably wind up taking the ph off, making new cut, and watching your bar get pretzeled when the tree goes over.


----------



## HuskStihl

Gologit said:


> you'll probably wind up taking the ph off, making new cut, and watching your bar get pretzeled when the tree goes over.


So wait a minute. Are you saying that's not _supposed_ to happen?!


----------



## Trx250r180

HuskStihl said:


> So wait a minute. Are you saying that's not _supposed_ to happen?!




Nope ............never happens .................stupid wind .........lol


----------



## Gologit

That's right, blame it on the wind. I always do.


----------



## Gologit

HuskStihl said:


> So wait a minute. Are you saying that's not _supposed_ to happen?!


 
Is that a trick question? That's like some of the questions my wife asks me...there isn't any good answer.
I wish I had all the money I've spent over the years on bars that paid the price for my mistakes.
And, to make the Back East guys feel better, I've wrecked more bars on oak and madrone trees...the only hardwood I've fallen to any extent... than anything else. Those multi-stemmed monsters...every time you walk around them trying to size them up they look different as far as where the weight is. We usually cut them when we're opening up a road or clearing a new landing so lead doesn't matter much. Good thing, too.  When one sits down on your bar and you have to call the Cat or a skidder over to give it a nudge you always get the "look" from whoever is running the machine. If you've worked in the woods you know the "look"...it says "uh huh, mighty Faller God screwed up again...gotta get the dummie on the big yellow machine to get him out of trouble". Tends to humble you a bit.
If there's no big yellow machine available you get to hike back to the truck, dig out your spare bar and chain, and a few extra wedges, hike back, and try not to screw things up worse than you already have. Your partner has by then figured out what happened and he might have a couple of comments, none of which will be complimentary..things like "been doing this long?" or "most guys would have started the face on the side they want the tree to fall"...clever little statements like that. Wait...it might be his turn next.


----------



## Trx250r180

Hey treeslayer ,looking at your saw i see a small cover on the sprocket side ,with the 3/4 wrap you should have the larger one, it keeps your finger tips more out of the way of chips and or a thrown or spinning chain when holding the handle down low on that side


----------



## paccity

Gologit said:


> Is that a trick question? That's like some of the questions my wife asks me...there isn't any good answer.
> I wish I had all the money I've spent over the years on bars that paid the price for my mistakes.
> And, to make the Back East guys feel better, I've wrecked more bars on oak and madrone trees...the only hardwood I've fallen to any extent... than anything else. Those multi-stemmed monsters...every time you walk around them trying to size them up they look different as far as where the weight is. We usually cut them when we're opening up a road or clearing a new landing so lead doesn't matter much. Good thing, too.  When one sits down on your bar and you have to call the Cat or a skidder over to give it a nudge you always get the "look" from whoever is running the machine. If you've worked in the woods you know the "look"...it says "uh huh, mighty Faller God screwed up again...gotta get the dummie on the big yellow machine to get him out of trouble". Tends to humble you a bit.
> If there's no big yellow machine available you get to hike back to the truck, dig out your spare bar and chain, and a few extra wedges, hike back, and try not to screw things up worse than you already have. Your partner has by then figured out what happened and he might have a couple of comments, none of which will be complimentary..things like "been doing this long?" or "most guys would have started the face on the side they want the tree to fall"...clever little statements like that. Wait...it might be his turn next.


yup, always fun. the last one i hung up was at the commune job. first tree of the morn. wind was up a little but not that much. had the shovel come give me a nudge. the rest of the day went great, but it 's always fun to start your day off that way. and it was the smallest stem of the day to.


----------



## paccity

oh then there was just last thurs afternoon went up behind owls place to help a bud dump some alder and maple on a right away . the first leaner up the bank he went to drop set on him making his first cut on his face. easy enough to cut him out and did not hurt my saw. he blamed it on my saw cutting to fast ,lol.


----------



## Nuzzy

treeslayer2003 said:


> no comments? wow.....maybe Bob will





Change your camera date.


----------



## Nuzzy

Trx250r180 said:


> Nope ............never happens .................stupid wind .........lolView attachment 342467





Did you take that pic of my tree in the woods a few weeks back? 


No one else around with a saw and was a long hike back to reinforcements in the vehicle. I ended up chopping the hinge from the face with my axe until the damn thing went over backwards.


----------



## HuskStihl

Hey Pac, I got a high top for my 288. I'm gonna take it to the body shop and get the top painted navy blue....


----------



## treeslayer2003

Trx250r180 said:


> Hey treeslayer ,looking at your saw i see a small cover on the sprocket side ,with the 3/4 wrap you should have the larger one, it keeps your finger tips more out of the way of chips and or a thrown or spinning chain when holding the handle down low on that side


 yup, this one was not an R, the big cover is next. I can't figure out why there is a small cover, even with a half wrap it would still be better. keeps the chips outta my pockets. shoot I never even seen one until I ordered the 461 R....you guys get all the good toys lol.


----------



## Trx250r180

treeslayer2003 said:


> yup, this one was not an R, the big cover is next. I can't figure out why there is a small cover, even with a half wrap it would still be better. keeps the chips outta my pockets. shoot I never even seen one until I ordered the 461 R....you guys get all the good toys lol.



on my sawmill ,the cover you have works better actually, i keep a small one for milling ,the full one throws chips all over my ladder tracks and fills them up ,the half cover lets them shoot out over it some to the left of the mill ,do you have the h/o oiler ?


----------



## treeslayer2003

the mastermind oiler lol. it does well and i'm about to try that myself. don't seem to hard.


----------



## 1270d




----------



## 1270d

I think its loaded a touch heavy


----------



## northmanlogging

The last one I can remember getting hung on, more skybound then anything, stuffed all 5 wedges in and stacked 4 of em, still didn't want to go. The bad thing is I faced it towards the crummy along the easy trail in... got to hike the long way around to grab a jack and more wedges, whole time watching the top and wind... I'm sure there are more between then and now, just choose not to remember them.


----------



## bitzer

Can't find my damn SD card adapter to throw some pics up. I moved about a month ago. Badly timed along with the rush at the end of winter. I will keep looking. I've been in some nice sized wood lately. 

Looks like that face took some doing to bust out Mike!

1270- what do you get for bf on that rig? Like how much is on there? Nice pine by the way. I wish we had decent pine to cut down here.


----------



## northmanlogging

One from today, got me yard full of these things.

For reference its a 42" bar on an 066


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## treeslayer2003

ok northy, school me on that face. looks like it was a bit punky in the middle.


----------



## northmanlogging

A little yeah, but not as bad a the pic suggests, only about 12-14" diameter of punk, the rest if from me wailing on it to get the chunks out.

There was a little bit of school marm action going on, about 1/4 of the diameter was taken up by the sucker, but they had grown fully together, even grew together severall spots up the tree, made limbing a real bastard...
As you can see I had a little alignment issues...

Other wise she came down pretty ok, missed my mark by about 20' (wind got er) but to the good side as there is a house and shop about 30' behind and to the right from where the pic was taken. Should have videoed this one, but wasn't sure how long it would take and if I had enough battery... made lots of *****'n booming noises before committing... And I did get to use my jack on it.

There are several more on this job as big or nearly as big, should get to at least 1 of em tomorrow. One in front of the house full of nails and at least 4' in dia... but that won't be until next week or so, have to get the power lines down and rig it... one more nasty school marm too... may end up leaving it though.


----------



## HuskStihl

treeslayer2003 said:


> ok northy, school me on that face. looks like it was a bit punky in the middle.


I think that's called the double asymmetric block face. Congrats on finding a pumpkin patch


----------



## 1270d

bitzer said:


> Can't find my damn SD card adapter to throw some pics up. I moved about a month ago. Badly timed along with the rush at the end of winter. I will keep looking. I've been in some nice sized wood lately.
> 
> Looks like that face took some doing to bust out Mike!
> 
> 1270- what do you get for bf on that rig? Like how much is on there? Nice pine by the way. I wish we had decent pine to cut down here.



Bitz there s maybe 2000 ft on there. Normally it will carry around 2.5 to 3 cds of hardwood. I asked him not to put that much pine on anymore since there's so much higher percentage on the rear axle.


----------



## treeslayer2003

northmanlogging said:


> A little yeah, but not as bad a the pic suggests, only about 12-14" diameter of punk, the rest if from me wailing on it to get the chunks out.
> 
> There was a little bit of school marm action going on, about 1/4 of the diameter was taken up by the sucker, but they had grown fully together, even grew together severall spots up the tree, made limbing a real bastard...
> As you can see I had a little alignment issues...
> 
> Other wise she came down pretty ok, missed my mark by about 20' (wind got er) but to the good side as there is a house and shop about 30' behind and to the right from where the pic was taken. Should have videoed this one, but wasn't sure how long it would take and if I had enough battery... made lots of *****'n booming noises before committing... And I did get to use my jack on it.
> 
> There are several more on this job as big or nearly as big, should get to at least 1 of em tomorrow. One in front of the house full of nails and at least 4' in dia... but that won't be until next week or so, have to get the power lines down and rig it... one more nasty school marm too... may end up leaving it though.


 ok that makes more sense then lol......I had to ask bro.


----------



## northmanlogging

meh, I tuck my pride in my armpit, as should be obvious by now... Just not real often I come across a 5' diameter tree someone wants me to cut down...


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## treeslayer2003

northy what are them trees? cedar?


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## Joe46

Not to step into NM post, but yes. Western Red Cedar. They can be limby, sky bound bastards that defie you to get them off the stump!


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## Gologit

Joe46 said:


> Not to step into NM post, but yes. Western Red Cedar. They can be limby, sky bound bastards that defie you to get them off the stump!



Yup, you can spend a lot of time limbing one of those. That's why I like a stroker delimber on the landing.
The ones we have down here can be weird to fall...not always but every once in awhile without rhyme or reason. Most of the fir and pine will talk to you a little when they're just about sawed up but a cedar will sometimes just go, no warning, no hesitation. Seems to be the second growth that's prone to that. Keeps you on your toes.


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## northmanlogging

Yup ceder, mostly ceder on this project, cut one today 4'3"

These big ugly ceders will talk to you a lot, deep throated booming, and popping, and then sometimes they just detonate on you boom boom splat...

Not sure how yer eastern ceder responds on the stump, these are mostly tame, the hold wood seems like it should be brittle cause it breaks clean and hardly ever get any fiber pull, but they hold to the stump well enough

The last month or so I've just been doing cleanup and wrenching, this logging stuff is hard work... I only fell 4 trees today but it took like 4 hours to limb and buck em.


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## treeslayer2003

lol, that big poplar was a pita to get on the truck, loader grapple just didn't want to hold on to it spread that wide. took longer to get that one tree out n on the truck than the rest of the load. I really make more money on 30" stuff.
no cedar in these parts big enough to cut.......I did look at some white cedar a while back but weren't legal to harvest um where they were.


----------



## northmanlogging

all hard wood then huh... maybe some pine...

the self loaders here have fairly small grapples on em, trees start getting up to the 3-4' range and you start needing to chain em up, not a super big deal until you realize the loader jockey is a 72 year old with one leg hopping up and down a loader tower...

The big landing loaders I think they tend to run 50-60" grapples not much they cant pick up and toss around.


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## treeslayer2003

yea, yellow pine and hard wood. once in a while find a big old growth heart pine.
I really need a big loader..........and a pile of money lol.


----------



## slowp

OK faller  gods. I have a question. I was doing some road work today and cutting down alders, whice always have a lean to the road daylight. When a tree has a lean, does one make one's back cut level or make it with the lean, which leaves a stump that would look like a slopping back cut except it was done with the lean? This has been bugging me along with the is the steer manure really from steers question. Cut with level level? Or with the lean slant?


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## treeslayer2003

boy do I wanna see what Bob says here lol, I always wondered too but I just cut level and try to match the face.


----------



## HuskStihl

slowp said:


> OK faller  gods. I have a question. I was doing some road work today and cutting down alders, whice always have a lean to the road daylight. When a tree has a lean, does one make one's back cut level or make it with the lean, which leaves a stump that would look like a slopping back cut except it was done with the lean? This has been bugging me along with the is the steer manure really from steers question. Cut with level level? Or with the lean slant?


I can say from personal experience that when you suggest making the back cut perpendicular to the stem and not horizontal, many, many people, Scores of people. Hundreds of people, will all come out of the woodwork and make fun of you on AS.


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## treeslayer2003

yea, but only a few matter


----------



## JakeG

Good question! Were you using a conventional or humboldt face cut? If so, were your horizontal cuts parallel with the earth or perpendicular to the fibers? Personally I think it's safer to avoid a ripping situation on your horizontal cuts.


----------



## slowp

I guess I'm not understanding Texan today, sorry. I'm doing bad Humboldts and went with the lean of the tree on the back cut. There have been no barber chairs but we are talking about small, 6" at the stump, alder.


----------



## northmanlogging

slowp said:


> OK faller  gods. I have a question. I was doing some road work today and cutting down alders, whice always have a lean to the road daylight. When a tree has a lean, does one make one's back cut level or make it with the lean, which leaves a stump that would look like a slopping back cut except it was done with the lean? This has been bugging me along with the is the steer manure really from steers question. Cut with level level? Or with the lean slant?



I don't consider myself a faller god yet, more like an acolyte...

anyway, always make yer cuts level, the reasoning is if you start tossing in funny slopps then you start getting funny reactions with the tree, level and plumb is predictable, to a point... Also a crooked back cut is still a crooked back cut, having that funny slope in it will lead to nastyness if you need a wedge, nastyness in the stump splitting and lots of tears and screaming why gods do you hate me so...


----------



## northmanlogging

JakeG said:


> Good question! Were you using a conventional or humboldt face cut? If so, were your horizontal cuts parallel with the earth or perpendicular to the fibers? Personally I think it's safer to avoid a ripping situation on your horizontal cuts.




I think he was say'n to cut it with the lean... this conventional stuff I don't know what that means though...


----------



## Gologit

treeslayer2003 said:


> boy do I wanna see what Bob says here lol, I always wondered too but I just cut level and try to match the face.



Bob says...it depends on the tree. You guys knew I was going to say that. None of this is gospel and I might vary the methods a little with each different tree. All I can do is tell you the way I was taught and share what's worked for me. I've had some good luck but I had some good teachers and some excellent object lessons (read...screwups) too. The screwups are the ones you really learn from.

On small trees without much lean I don't think it's too critical but I'll still make my back cut perpendicular to the grain. Granted, it leaves a farmer-looking stump but that's better than cutting at an angle to the grain and taking a chance on a barber chair. 
Little leaners will hurt you, too.
On larger trees, say anything over 30" or so or on heavy leaners I try to make my face fairly steep and as deep as I think I can get away with. That's easy to over-do though and it's better not to push it too far.
I'll almost always put a snipe in the face. I want that tree to slide down and hit butt first if it can. I usually use a Humboldt face if I'm falling it to a flat lay or going cross hill. If I have to fall one uphill I might use a conventional with no snipe and forget about trying to get it to hit butt first. I don't want it sliding back down the hill at me and if I can hold it to the stump a little I feel better.
I back the big ones up the same way as the little ones but I tend to power through them as hard as I can and I get my marks set before I start. I like the V style Coos Bay but a T will work just as well if your cuts are lined up right. I seldom use a bore cut. I want a straight cut the first time, no screwing around with do-overs...not on a leaner. There's a tendency to cut through your hinge or cut a corner off when you're going that hard so either scribe a mark where hinge should be or have somebody spot for you.
LOL...Usually with our kinds of trees you won't get close enough to the hinge on a leaner to have to worry about cutting out but if you're chasing the hinge it can still happen.
Like I said, none of this is carved in stone but I've done alright with it. I'm sure there are other ways just as good but I tend to stick with what I know will work for me. Falling trees is always just a series of small corrections and stopping little problems before they become big ones.


----------



## slowp

OK, I'm understanding Californian. That's a scary thought!


----------



## JakeG

Great post sir. I use the triangle and "T" coos regularly and recently tried the no face coos on small hardwoods. They all work as described.


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> OK, I'm understanding Californian. That's a scary thought!



Just don't start talking like a Valley Girl, okay?


----------



## HuskStihl

If bob make a sloping back cut, people assume it's intentional. If I ever made a level back cut, people would know it was an accident. I had argued last year that perpendicular to the stem was the shortest way thru, but meanies hurt my inner child shortly thereafter


----------



## lfnh

Perpendicular.
otherwise you got an HBRN sloping downunder backcut, and that'll flush things just wrong.




HuskStihl said:


> If bob make a sloping back cut, people assume it's intentional. If I ever made a level back cut, people would know it was an accident. I had argued last year that perpendicular to the stem was the shortest way thru, but meanies hurt my inner child shortly thereafter


what thread was that in ?


----------



## HuskStihl

[QUOTE="]



what thread was that in ?[/QUOTE]
prolly would have been this one or the not so pro. Or not. I was foolishly giving somebody advice on a big leaner and used the phrase "start an inch above the hinge and cut straight down thru the tree"or something similar, meaning that you follow the tree. Didn't go well


----------



## lfnh

sounds familiar.


----------



## northmanlogging

A few from today, not much room for error with these, busy road and power lines on one side, house and shed on the other, window to hit was around 30'.

The two big ceders go tomorrow morning, the one on the left is leaning over the house, should be interesting, have them all rigged and ready. Just waiting on a full day and the power lines where cut this morning...


----------



## bitzer

Nice work North! Looks like some decent timber. I don't envy you having to fall those around all that stuff. It can be fun once in a while to get the blood up though!


----------



## Nuzzy

Nice 


Residential falling always gives a little extra fun juice in the system.


----------



## Gologit

bitzer said:


> Nice work North! Looks like some decent timber. I don't envy you having to fall those around all that stuff. It can be fun once in a while to get the blood up though!




Yup, directional falling...or else. Sure makes you feel good when one goes exactly like you planned. Almost makes up for those that had you running for your life.


----------



## northmanlogging

The dougie went well, but that hemlock had me shaking... didn't want to go over and then started straigt for the shed... power into the hold wood and she turned where I wanted it but god's damn it was close.


----------



## treeslayer2003

that chit will make ya age bro lol. glad that's over. I hate yard trees.


----------



## Trx250r180

Bet that house has need seen that sun in a long time ,that cedar to the left leaning towards the shed gonna wedge over ok ?


----------



## Samlock

Hey North, good to see on action after awhile!

Yeah, nothing justifies putting the spurs and saddle on, while you can take it down with three cuts. He is a logger and he is ok.


----------



## IcePick

Haven't been out falling in the last few weeks because of break-up and Bob's forwarder being a little limited on how much it can skid lately. The last time I was cutting in the woods I got so frustrated I contemplated never doing it again, just one of those days. But now, after a few weeks, there is nothing I'd rather be doing than working in the woods again. Nice pics by the way northman.


----------



## treeslayer2003

hey icepick! what got ya down? chit happens bro.


----------



## IcePick

treeslayer2003 said:


> hey icepick! what got ya down? chit happens bro.


Was cutting a swamp with soft maple, and just about every tree was hollow or rotten several feet up. Was wasting lots of time and energy butting pieces off, had a few go astray, and just plain wasn't in a great mood. But being away from it for three weeks has made me realize how enjoyable it is. You're goona have your ups and downs. Some days you will feel like a true professional who is improving each and every tree, and some days you will feel like you have no business being out there I guess.


----------



## rwoods

IcePick said:


> ... You're goona have your ups and downs. *Some days you will feel like a true professional who is improving each and every tree, and some days you will feel like you have no business being out there I guess.*



Pretty much sums up any profession when you truly want to be good. Sometimes you just got to hang in there. Ron


----------



## Gologit

Samlock said:


> Hey North, good to see on action after awhile!
> 
> Yeah, nothing justifies putting the spurs and saddle on, while you can take it down with three cuts. He is a logger and he is ok.



Good to see you back on here.


----------



## Gologit

IcePick said:


> You're goona have your ups and downs. Some days you will feel like a true professional who is improving each and every tree, and some days you will feel like you have no business being out there I guess.



Exactly right. I'd like to say that changes for the better...but it doesn't. Some days you'll ask yourself "have I forgotten everything I ever learned?" Most days aren't quite so bad.


----------



## treeslayer2003

Bob and Ron nailed it here. we all get them crap jobs once in a while, makes good jobs really shine.


----------



## paccity

not mine. a few unit's down from where we were cutting. up behind owls place.




a few of you will recognize the red shop.


----------



## paccity

tempting.


----------



## paccity

Gologit said:


> Exactly right. I'd like to say that changes for the better...but it doesn't. Some days you'll ask yourself "have I forgotten everything I ever learned?" Most days aren't quite so bad.


hopefully you get it out of the way rite off the bat so ya feel alittle better at the end of the day. like having the first one set back before you can stab a wedge.


----------



## treeslayer2003

paccity said:


> not mine. a few unit's down from where we were cutting. up behind owls place.View attachment 345444
> View attachment 345445
> View attachment 345446
> View attachment 345447
> View attachment 345448
> a few of you will recognize the red shop.


 yep I had a guy cut that way.........not long for me. log looks like it was sharpened.


----------



## paccity

some of them went 90 and 180 from the face.


----------



## Gologit

paccity said:


> not mine. a few unit's down from where we were cutting. up behind owls place.View attachment 345444
> View attachment 345445
> View attachment 345446
> View attachment 345447
> View attachment 345448
> a few of you will recognize the red shop.



Ugh! That wasn't any of your guys I hope. Is the red shop Scott's place?


----------



## paccity

Gologit said:


> Ugh! That wasn't any of your guys I hope. Is the red shop Scott's place?


nope, no one i know. yup that's the spot.


----------



## treeslayer2003

paccity said:


> some of them went 90 and 180 from the face.


 yep that dude used to leave a jack strawed mess for me to clean up. he had to go one way or the other.
he was spossed to be from Montana, I am sure no one teaches to cut like that out there.


----------



## rwoods

Hey, my stumps aren't supposed to be posted in this thread!  Ron


----------



## JakeG

I've never seen anyone get paid to cut like that. Darn shame.

Any blood near those stumps? His/her luck won't last for ever.


----------



## paccity

them stumps are on blm roads, they sell units to clear the alder and maple from the edge of the roads. so this is prob just some lucky home owners getting fire wood. and these were easy trees. the unit that a friend has a few miles down the road sucked ,most on his were 10 to 20 feet down off of the road on the steep , almost have to rope your self down. real fun when you really have no escape accept a 100 plus down. just step back a little and watch the butt swing up over your head when laying them up on the road.


----------



## northmanlogging

Here ya go some pucker power on this one



pucker


----------



## paccity

a little limbage, but ya pretty much cleared it.


----------



## JakeG

Big time pucker... Probably have a hole in your drawers after that one


----------



## northmanlogging

JakeG said:


> Big time pucker... Probably have a hole in your drawers after that one



I pulled enough cotton out to make a sock, and found a button for my spenders...


----------



## bitzer

Nice work man! Even with a punky butted sob. You have it faced about 30 degrees more to the left originally? Just out of curiosity I'm guessing you are getting paid for these take downs and whatever you get for the logs is a bonus?


----------



## bitzer

Here are some pics from the last job. Mostly tall hickory, small white oak, and big red oak. Definetly some of the tallest hickory I've ever cut. Some had 55 linear feet of logs in them.




One of the bigger white oak.



Stump.




I didn't see the seam until she blew up on me. If you look near the butt you can see the darker weathered wood. These shagbarks hid their cracks and seams really well. She split out to 17 feet. I was ****ing pissed. Still got 3 12 footers after that though. That split crap went into the firewood pile.




Red oak punkin patch. They seemed to be grouped in 5 or 6 like this through-out the woods.


----------



## northmanlogging

Nah there is enough here to get paid rather well just for the timber. there "was" a truck load and a half in the back yard and only 2 needed rigging, I think there is at least two loads waiting for a truck now, and probably another load I'll get to tomorrow.

Everything thats left is getting a line in it an pulled over, so I lose a little to the climber but its more then worth it, what with so many high values targets surrounding everything.

As a side note I'm not sure the lines hung in this one did a whole lot of good, other then saving me some wedging. One bump from the Missus and she was off to the races

And yes I did originally have it faced another 10-15 degrees to the left, with a siz and a soft dutch... but then the top was hanging a good 20 feet from the butt. The pics from yesterday this is the one on the left.


----------



## bitzer

The best oak in the woods.




Laid out real nice. Didn't bust the last log at all.




She ran out to the end of my tape.



Bunked up. At least 1000bf.




30 - 40mbf on the landing here.


----------



## bitzer

Yeah I'm hogging the thread a little now. My phone camera sucks too. Its not foggy in any of these pictures.

A little rotten swinger.




Biggest butt in the woods, but she tapered pretty quick. Still a 1mbfer though.




I fought the buck and the buck won.




This guy spit out of the cut as soon as it drop. He got pinched in there and was being choked bad. I thought about just running the saw over him to end his misery, but then I didn't want to mess up my chain which was really rippin. While I was contemplating how I should finish him, he quit moving. When I made the next buck the logs leveled out and he started wigglin again, but he couldn't get out. I didn't want to cut him out either cause he was pissed. A few hours later I came back around with the forwarder and grabbed the logs. He went bookin out into the slash somewhere. I looked at the log and I couldn't figure out how he got in there in the first place.


----------



## bitzer

northmanlogging said:


> Nah there is enough here to get paid rather well just for the timber. there "was" a truck load and a half in the back yard and only 2 needed rigging, I think there is at least two loads waiting for a truck now, and probably another load I'll get to tomorrow.
> 
> Everything thats left is getting a line in it an pulled over, so I lose a little to the climber but its more then worth it, what with so many high values targets surrounding everything.
> 
> As a side note I'm not sure the lines hung in this one did a whole lot of good, other then saving me some wedging. One bump from the Missus and she was off to the races
> 
> And yes I did originally have it faced another 10-15 degrees to the left, with a siz and a soft dutch... but then the top was hanging a good 20 feet from the butt. The pics from yesterday this is the one on the left.



Yeah I spose you are selling logs to the mill. I'm just used to cutting for the mill. If I have anything fancy I need to do on a job the landowner has to pony up the extra. Otherwise the tree is staying. Its just not worth my time or the headache usually. With some landowners I have stretched that rule some and went above and beyond for no extra pay, but it doesn't help the wallet at the end of the day. Yeah it sucks when you put a lot of extra time into a stump with different cuts and the damn thing doesn't co-operate like it should. Punky wood is a toss up no matter what though.


----------



## northmanlogging

Meh only takes a minute or two to add some extra cuts, If I miss the important stuff and don't break the tree, I call it a win, this one did break pretty bad, but I missed a shed full of expensive tools and stuff, so its still a win.


----------



## bitzer

northmanlogging said:


> Meh only takes a minute or two to add some extra cuts, If I miss the important stuff and don't break the tree, I call it a win, this one did break pretty bad, but I missed a shed full of expensive tools and stuff, so its still a win.



Yeah I agree. Anything more than a minute or two at most stumps and I feel like I'm wasting time. When you've got all kinds of stuff to break time is on your side.


----------



## Samlock

The shed doesn't look like a massage parlor, still I'd call that a happy ending.


----------



## OlympicYJ

Bitz, where's your humbolts? Reverting back to the darkside....? lol


----------



## treeslayer2003

nah, he jus tryin to get more out of um.
bitz they do look punky at the ground.


----------



## bitzer

treeslayer2003 said:


> nah, he jus tryin to get more out of um.
> bitz they do look punky at the ground.


Yep, a lot faster and easier to throw a conventional in. There was a steep hillside that I put a Humboldt in most of em though. I was buttin pretty often so it didn't really matter either way.


----------



## bitzer

OlympicYJ said:


> Bitz, where's your humbolts? Reverting back to the darkside....? lol


Yeah I've been cutting a lot of flats lately. Just throwin in faces as fast as I can when nothing special is necessary. I still do like the look of a Humboldt face better than a Saginaw!


----------



## OlympicYJ

These were from about a month ago when I was home on spring break.



The stump in the background was the old mans. It was leanin heavy up hill so he let her go that way. Other two are mine. I shortened his stump up so I had room to work. 





Used a siz on this one. uphill leaner. I should have put my face right where the other one was. Pulled farther than I wanted but first time doin a siz and nothing to break.


----------



## slowp

Maple?


----------



## paccity

yup.


----------



## OlympicYJ

Yupp was maple. I think i made a typo in another post about putting these pics up lol


----------



## twochains




----------



## twochains




----------



## schmuck.k

Wanted to keep this thread alive so here are a couple stumps from the other day.


----------



## Nuzzy

schmuck.k said:


> Wanted to keep this thread alive so here are a couple stumps from the other day. View attachment 347308
> View attachment 347309
> View attachment 347310
> View attachment 347311




Nice.  

Those on OTG? Or have you guys started in cutting on the new ones...


----------



## schmuck.k

Nuzzy said:


> Nice.
> 
> Those on OTG? Or have you guys started in cutting on the new ones...


Preston the crew did not want to work under them so they had to go


----------



## madhatte

Here's some crappy ROW cutting I did today clearing fire-killed prairie fir from along a road.


----------



## Philbo

Working with a bit of locust this week. Went well till I hung a wide crowned b**** up in a soft maple and had to cut 1/2 the hinge wood to get it to come down….only after an earnest attempt to decimate my wedges.


----------



## Metals406

I fell a tree one time.


----------



## bitzer

That's an interesting way to stack em. Yep cutting one side of the hinge off when its hung will get it to move. Sometimes cut some of the other side and it will spin on whats left. Sometimes you have to cut that off too. Not moving after that and if its a good butt log, you can usually take a chunk out of the stump to get it to move. Just watch yer tip. Wedges often will not get much done in that situation. The most fun way is to hammer it out of there with another one. If you don't do that right you can make that mess twice as fun though. It takes a while to figure out where you need to hit em and what will break.


----------



## Samlock

Here most guys carry a strap in case of a hang up. Not my pic, but shows it clear.


----------



## OlympicYJ

Samlock that's a neat trick. Wish I would have thought of that when I was thinning about 6 acres of Doug-fir. It was really a commercial thinning but it all went for firewood as the lady who owned it wanted it for firewood and too small and steep to bring in a machine. I chunked a bunch down and only got one good push on some hang ups otherwise it was chunk down and call it good. Would have been handy. I've got some alder to thin and was thinking about buying one of those falling levers for that kind of work but your idea is cheaper! You have a picture of what the strap looks like, I assume it is a continuous loop?


----------



## Samlock

The standard strap here is a 5 centimeters wide nylon strap with sewn loops on both ends. Length approx 2 meters.





A continous loop is ok too. It just takes a bit more room in your pouch.

You tie the strap on like this.

.





I'm a bit surprised there's not a single how-to video on the tube on this trick. The strap is given to each worker by rule and everyone knows how to use it.


----------



## Trx250r180

Samlock said:


> Here most guys carry a strap in case of a hang up. Not my pic, but shows it clear.


corner store had a whole bunch of those straps a while back given to him by a tree service ,i guess they use them on one job and get new ones ,i think i have 1 or 2 here still i think ,they had weird eye ends over normal straps .much larger


----------



## slowp

I would have to carry the how to picture with me.


----------



## Trx250r180

looks like this is one of the styles a full loop ,the other ones i had the guys cut up it looks like because would not sling things right around here


----------



## Samlock

Brian, that looks like a plain rigging sling the tree equipment stores are selling. My guess too is they are a bit short for twisting hangups on the stump. But you just cut it up and tie loops on both ends and you're good to go.

A piece of strap or a sling makes a multitool in log cutting too. I use a sling with pulp hook to roll the logs over in order to reach the belly pegs. A felling lever or a peavey or a cant hook tends to get lost in the brush, you know. Plus there's always plenty of long levers in hand, so why drag one around?


----------



## wyk

OlympicYJ said:


> Samlock that's a neat trick. Wish I would have thought of that when I was thinning about 6 acres of Doug-fir. It was really a commercial thinning but it all went for firewood as the lady who owned it wanted it for firewood and too small and steep to bring in a machine. I chunked a bunch down and only got one good push on some hang ups otherwise it was chunk down and call it good. Would have been handy. I've got some alder to thin and was thinking about buying one of those falling levers for that kind of work but your idea is cheaper! You have a picture of what the strap looks like, I assume it is a continuous loop?



Its a common trick out this way, too. Just use a loop of tow rope. We always have one in the crummy for multiple reasons. If ya get a stubborn hanger ya can't free up or cut any locals down to help, ya plunge cut thru the hinge of the hanger, and then cut the side hinge opposite the side you roll her at a 45* ish angle to free it. If that doesn't work, ya use the loop or a pry bar/felling bar/hook, etc.


----------



## wyk

And this is a good idea of why we have to do it so often in Europe. This is the thinning we did in Dorset. Mostly ash, beech, and some random conifers about 1-2' in dbh, but fairly tall due to how tight they were growing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=TwdTPFbWNV0#t=148

I'm using a lil ported Echo 50cc and the operator is using a ported 42 special for most of the outside thinning we are doing here. That fire smelled great, btw.


----------



## Trx250r180

Samlock said:


> Brian, that looks like a plain rigging sling the tree equipment stores are selling. My guess too is they are a bit short for twisting hangups on the stump. But you just cut it up and tie loops on both ends and you're good to go.
> 
> A piece of strap or a sling makes a multitool in log cutting too. I use a sling with pulp hook to roll the logs over in order to reach the belly pegs. A felling lever or a peavey or a cant hook tends to get lost in the brush, you know. Plus there's always plenty of long levers in hand, so why drag one around?




i had some other straps from the tree service ,had large loops on the end and pretty long ,maybe 10-12 foot ,we were using them to lift engines like a big choker sling ,i will have to see if there are any still here ,sometimes things get modified by the guys if they do not work right for automotive use ,so they may not be around anymore


----------



## northmanlogging

I fell down a lot today, no pics though does that count?


----------



## treeslayer2003

dang northy, yer not spossed to admit to falling down.........any body see ya?


----------



## northmanlogging

just the war dept... feeding a chipper by hand the last 2 weeks... I feel like a gorilla...


----------



## tramp bushler

hi guys . not loggin currently .. Ran an old air track since January up in the arctic drilling blast holes in a gravel mine out of Nuiqsut . an Ingersol Rand 2000 towing a big compressor . Ingersol 1600 .running 4 + 4 1/2" bits


----------



## treeslayer2003

good to see ya Glen!
don't matter what ya been doin bro.
i ain't doin nuthin, goin nuts waitin on DNR to make up they mind.


----------



## HuskStihl

Glad to see you survived the winter Glen! Hope running the big IR all winter keeps you in the black for a good while. Jolly logger Jeff just hit Fairbanks yesterday


----------



## tramp bushler

whats he doin in Fairbanks


----------



## HuskStihl

Don't know the full details, but it's in the not so pro thread. Dja get a moose this year?


----------



## northmanlogging

hiya tramp, welcome back to the world...


----------



## OlympicYJ

Yupp good to see ya back Glen!!


----------



## Samlock

tramp bushler said:


> hi guys . not loggin currently .. Ran an old air track since January up in the arctic drilling blast holes in a gravel mine out of Nuiqsut . an Ingersol Rand 2000 towing a big compressor . Ingersol 1600 .running 4 + 4 1/2" bits



Glen, you missed (or avoided) the fun part of the arctic year. I don't know how is it with Inuits, but my relatives living just about the same level up north will lose it each summer. I think the craziness is about to hit them any day now. Must have something to do with sleep deprivation.


----------



## madhatte

Cool trick! I already carry a strap in the truck for yanking the rig out of the soup, glad to see that it has another use. It's always the small stuff that hangs. 



Samlock said:


> Here most guys carry a strap in case of a hang up. Not my pic, but shows it clear.


----------



## tramp bushler

Samlock said:


> Glen, you missed (or avoided) the fun part of the arctic year. I don't know how is it with Inuits, but my relatives living just about the same level up north will lose it each summer. I think the craziness is about to hit them any day now. Must have something to do with sleep deprivation.



.. . I think they are Whaling right now. . Its definatly different . . Thanks for all the welcome backs . Ive tried to get on here several times and my uname and password wouldnt go thru . glad to see everyone .


----------



## HuskStihl

tramp bushler said:


> .. . I think they are Whaling right now. . Its definatly different . . Thanks for all the welcome backs . *Ive tried to get on here several times and my uname and password wouldnt go thru* . glad to see everyone .


Sorry about that Glen, I spent a lot of time this winter logged in under your username. Mostly making friends with guys in the arborist forum. Just FYI, you and Treemandan are now besties


----------



## Samlock

HuskStihl said:


> Sorry about that Glen, I spent a lot of time this winter logged in under your username. Mostly making friends with guys in the arborist site. Just FYI, you and Treemandan are now besties



You're a sweet guy, Jon. Did you know that?


----------



## Trx250r180




----------



## tramp bushler

oh , ok . did he get unband ?


----------



## treeslayer2003

he was here under a different name for a while.........
check out the things that piss ya off thread


----------



## tramp bushler

did he get run off ?


----------



## treeslayer2003

dunno but i ain't seen him lately


----------



## bitzer

Good to hear from ya Glen! So did you get to blow anything up?


----------



## KiwiBro

Got almost 90 degrees on one of the few bigger, tall pines on a job recently, using a siswheel and soft dutchman. Farmer thinks I'm a pro. If only he knew how often I worry about how little I know. Last tree of the day yesterday was a tall but skinny pine that I was certain where it was heading but it sat back just as I got the tip of a wedge in and slamed down hard just after I got my bar out. Put three wedges in that bloody thing and pounded for way too long, hoping it wouldn't break the hinge and get ugly. I still can;'t figure out why it wouldn't cooperate. It was a regular tree, no real lean, slight breeze going the right way, but that bugger took some persuading. Decided to call it quits that day before my luck totally ran out.


----------



## Samlock

KiwiBro said:


> Got almost 90 degrees on one of the few bigger, tall pines on a job recently, using a siswheel and soft dutchman. Farmer thinks I'm a pro. If only he knew how often I worry about how little I know. Last tree of the day yesterday was a tall but skinny pine that I was certain where it was heading but it sat back just as I got the tip of a wedge in and slamed down hard just after I got my bar out. Put three wedges in that bloody thing and pounded for way too long, hoping it wouldn't break the hinge and get ugly. I still can;'t figure out why it wouldn't cooperate. It was a regular tree, no real lean, slight breeze going the right way, but that bugger took some persuading. Decided to call it quits that day before my luck totally ran out.



Those tall pine whips with a tuft on the top have always been a mystery to me too. They'll sit on your bar no matter what. I reckon it's about the weight distribution. The larger share of the tree's weight on the top, the more unbalanced it gets. Stick a pencil into a eraser and see, which way it will stand - weight up or down. Imbalance makes it harder to cut your way under the critical point. You don't want to make your notch too deep either, unless you want it go backwards. Pine is also amazingly flexible. When you pound it, the top will whip back, feels like the tree is holding a cloud or something. 

So, I really have no trick how to handle skinny poles. Just show some respect. Taking a step back and plumbing it with your falling ax is not a bad idea either.


----------



## treeslayer2003

sams right on with the shallow face, it gives more room to work the wedges.............i hate pecker poles.


----------



## northmanlogging

I like to make my back cut first on the little ones, get a wedge started and then make the face cut. Just have to be careful and remember to gun with the back cut, and make damn sure your hold wood is correct.

The other option it to bore a slot just above the back cut wide enough for a wedge to push through, make yer cuts like normal and when you get to the wedge pounding bit you can nearly drive the wedge all the way through if needed... Granted this only works if you have enough diameter to still have some solid wood on both sides, and it tends to steal a wedge, that sometimes needs to be cut free...


----------



## KiwiBro

northmanlogging said:


> I like to make my back cut first on the little ones, get a wedge started and then make the face cut. Just have to be careful and remember to gun with the back cut, and make damn sure your hold wood is correct.
> 
> The other option it to bore a slot just above the back cut wide enough for a wedge to push through, make yer cuts like normal and when you get to the wedge pounding bit you can nearly drive the wedge all the way through if needed... Granted this only works if you have enough diameter to still have some solid wood on both sides, and it tends to steal a wedge, that sometimes needs to be cut free...


Cheers. Will give it a shot when the opportunity next presents itself, like, tomorrow.
Also thanks to the unmentionable poster who advised another way via private message ;-). Will give that a shot too.


----------



## Samlock

Watch out for this when you do it, Kiwi. That is not a pine, but a tall and skinny alder. Spat out my wedge while driving it in, I think because of the wobbling movement those things do. Fortunately it was about to tip over, so I was able to hold it a moment and slip the wedge back in.


----------



## Metals406

Put some dirt or chips on the wedge to help prevent spitback.


----------



## OlympicYJ

Had that happen plenty of times when I was thinning Doug-fir that size and sometimes a little larger. I also double wedged a bunch.


----------



## RandyMac

I fell some very tall, skinny OG DF for piling, I learned that steep and deep is not for trees that will fold on the way down.


----------



## HuskStihl

hammerlogging said:


> ok maybe this weekend. I'll tote the phone tomorrow for some pics. think I'll be cuttin on 2 different jobs, thats a good day at one and a quick stop at the end of the day to finish one off


Are you working in NC or across the border? Lookin forward to pics!


----------



## StihlKiwi

KiwiBro said:


> View attachment 350887
> Before running out of trees, I got to trying the 'wedge pocket' idea as I'm calling it now. Worked well, thanks. Fortunately, the real skinny ones, that would have bugger all holding wood left if I used this method were all on the ground. In the end, on a few, I persuaded with PTO winch when wind got up too much. All wood being piled and burned so stumps could look ugly, fibre pull was OK, and I had to steer 'em into one of two piles or spend ages winching them into the piles. Oh, and fence lines, save trees, and a track dotted about the place too.
> Here's a photo of a few to show the sails on the end of the long masts.
> Only burning the lot so don't laugh at the stumps or busted tops. Well, OK, laugh all you want.



Looks like pruned butt on the right tree.. just piled and burnt?


----------



## KiwiBro

StihlKiwi said:


> Looks like pruned butt on the right tree.. just piled and burnt?


Pretty much. Getting quite demoralised seeing small stands go up in flames. There must be a way of extracting some value.
Couldn't get trucks to it, owner didn't want a digger on the paddock chewing up their pasture.
Am wondering if I should get me a portable sawmill and get at the 30+yo pines when they present themselves and try and find a buyer for it. Could mill where it drops with minimal impact on the paddocks and take out a trailer of lumber each day.

But who would buy green pine lumber like this at pricing that would make it worthwhile? Anyone?


----------



## StihlKiwi

KiwiBro said:


> Pretty much. Getting quite demoralised seeing small stands go up in flames. There must be a way of extracting some value.
> Couldn't get trucks to it, owner didn't want a digger on the paddock chewing up their pasture.
> Am wondering if I should get me a portable sawmill and get at the 30+yo pines when they present themselves and try and find a buyer for it. Could mill where it drops with minimal impact on the paddocks and take out a trailer of lumber each day.
> 
> But who would buy green pine lumber like this at pricing that would make it worthwhile? Anyone?



Valid points.
Refresh me again on whereabouts you are.. up north sounds familiar?

If its 6 metre pruned surely there's a local mill with some interest. Export prices are tanking so that's probably out of the question


----------



## KiwiBro

Northland and above. Got some smaller mill buyers but nobody particularly serious and for the grades often found on small, farm stands and the hassles in getting logs on T&T's sometimes when truck access is next to impossible, and the cost of transport to the buyers, it all ends up being a bit marginal trying to sell saw logs.

But if there was a way I could keep a small portable mill busy and at least earning its keep knocking out lumber rather than burning it, it would be a far more satisfying outcome.


----------



## StihlKiwi

Well, you're in the home of the Bergstroms and the Mahoe mill, maybe there's a business expansion in your future.
My old man had to knock over a hectare or so of radiata a few years back at the end of an airstrip. He found a guy who milled and treated, still has 6x2 rails and pointed 2.5m strainers sitting around from it.


----------



## KiwiBro

StihlKiwi said:


> Well, you're in the home of the Bergstroms and the Mahoe mill, maybe there's a business expansion in your future.
> My old man had to knock over a hectare or so of radiata a few years back at the end of an airstrip. He found a guy who milled and treated, still has 6x2 rails and pointed 2.5m strainers sitting around from it.


Can't afford $60k for a Mahoe or the gear to support it...yet.
Sorry, don't know Bergstroms. Did you mean the Bergman clan behind Mahoe?

It's one thing to own a great mill, but it's an entirely different matter finding buyers for the lumber, unfortunately. I've got quite a bit of standing saw logs dotted around the place waiting for me to drop and mill, but I'm holding off until I have buyers for it. Seems to be the missing bit of the puzzle.


----------



## StihlKiwi

KiwiBro said:


> Can't afford $60k for a Mahoe or the gear to support it...yet.
> Sorry, don't know Bergstroms. Did you mean the Bergman clan behind Mahoe?
> 
> It's one thing to own a great mill, but it's an entirely different matter finding buyers for the lumber, unfortunately. I've got quite a bit of standing saw logs dotted around the place waiting for me to drop and mill, but I'm holding off until I have buyers for it. Seems to be the missing bit of the puzzle.




Ha, my bad. Was at uni with a Berstrom, meant Bergman though.

Radiata is hard to sell at small volumes, milled mac, eucalypt etc is probably easier. Just a shame to see high-lift pruned going on the the burn pile, especially at $1,000-$1,200 a hectare to get it there


----------



## KiwiBro

StihlKiwi said:


> Just a shame to see high-lift pruned going on the the burn pile


 Yeah, leaves a kinda hollow feeling like I'm wasting a resource. But the more I look around, the more such small farm stands I see where truck access is bad to non-existent, they can't have the ground torn up much if at all, and some of the stands have not been well managed. If I could figure a way to save this wood from the burn pile and not go bust trying, then I'd be all over it.

Regarding Eucs, I have some very good stands but no serious lumber buyers and zero saw log buyers offering enough to justify felling the trees.

Seems an interesting time at the moment in the industry. It feels like it is at a bit of a crossroad. Or maybe it's just me at the crossroad.


----------



## StihlKiwi

KiwiBro said:


> Yeah, leaves a kinda hollow feeling like I'm wasting a resource. But the more I look around, the more such small farm stands I see where truck access is bad to non-existent, they can't have the ground torn up much if at all, and some of the stands have not been well managed. If I could figure a way to save this wood from the burn pile and not go bust trying, then I'd be all over it.
> 
> Regarding Eucs, I have some very good stands but no serious lumber buyers and zero saw log buyers offering enough to justify felling the trees.
> 
> Seems an interesting time at the moment in the industry. It feels like it is at a bit of a crossroad. Or maybe it's just me at the crossroad.



There's more than one crossroads for the forestry industry in the coming months/years..

Euc makes decent pulp/paper, as for sawlogs it will only be small scale buyers interested - guys wanting to build heavy-duty cattle yards etc.

The 'wall of wood' we have coming will be seriously limited by the ability to safely extract it, sounds like you're up against that already in the woodlot market.


----------



## KiwiBro

I'm not pulping out 1.4m DBH Salignas mate 
Moxon in Tauranga doesn't seem interested any more. Seems like their export market in USA has gone soft on 'em, or at least was last time I rang. 

Extracting the pine safely and in the sorts of numbers needed is also a product of the $ available to do the work. With so much of the cutting rights now owned by overseas funds, I haven't seen much willingness to think too hard about funding the industry to the point it can really go hard out dreaming up heaps of really creative mechanised solutions for steep terrain for example, and investing in the human resource to be sure it stays safe. There's been a few pretty smart things I've seen or read about but not in the quantities needed, I don't think.

But I'm at the other end of that scale, looking for a niche doing the stuff the big boys can't be bothered with. At least until us small players get swamped by compliance costs and admit defeat.


----------



## StihlKiwi

KiwiBro said:


> I'm not pulping out 1.4m DBH Salignas mate
> Moxon in Tauranga doesn't seem interested any more. Seems like their export market in USA has gone soft on 'em, or at least was last time I rang.
> 
> Extracting the pine safely and in the sorts of numbers needed is also a product of the $ available to do the work. With so much of the cutting rights now owned by overseas funds, I haven't seen much willingness to think too hard about funding the industry to the point it can really go hard out dreaming up heaps of really creative mechanised solutions for steep terrain for example, and investing in the human resource to be sure it stays safe. There's been a few pretty smart things I've seen or read about but not in the quantities needed, I don't think.
> 
> But I'm at the other end of that scale, looking for a niche doing the stuff the big boys can't be bothered with. At least until us small players get swamped by compliance costs and admit defeat.



There's always gonna be a need for manual fallers no matter what technology is at hand. As qualified and skilled guys get thinner on the ground it can only drive the $ rate up and weed out the cowboys


----------



## northmanlogging

K I don't get it, they want the timber removed but don't want trucks on their dirt? So it has to be burned, I assume they are paying a pretty penny for it?

Building a small skid road or even a tiny landing, enough to get a truck into, wouldn't tear up all that much ground, and besides it would give their "ranch" a little infastructure to move stuff around. Then a guy could use a tractor with winch or small dozer to move logs to the landing without mangling everything. Unless your talking about really steep ground, then you would have to step up to full on road building and yarders, then have the wood to make a profit.


----------



## KiwiBro

Yep. You'd be surprised how often it happens. Either the woodlot is not valuable enough as saw log or pulp (once harvesting and transport costs are met) to justify the disruption, and costs of building truck access, or the owner might have been let down by others in the past and unwilling to trust any assertion the ground won't get wrecked. If dry enough, they'll accept a wheeled machine over the paddocks to the nearest farm race/track, but they aren't going to get track building machinery in nor spend a cent upgrading their existing tracks. 

There might only be 100 trees in a stand, but there may be multiple stands of the same age around the farm. Some of it on ground worth turning back to pasture or where the shading from the trees is adversely impacting other pasture.

But so far I haven't met a farmer who when they take this stance, don't realise they are pretty much consigning the wood to being felled and burned rather than used. I hope to find and prove a better alternative. I can buy a loader, build or buy a small but strong trailer, and wheel logs out, but it then means travelling to the nearest place a truck and trailer can get to and turn around that has enough space to hold at least a t&t of logs, then unloading the trailer, then having the loader or a digger with grapple available to load out the t&t's. 

By that stage, there's not much $ left in it. If there was a way to mill where it drops, and a buyer for the lumber, then the loader/digger isn't needed and what I'm hoping to find out is whether the wood that rolls out the farm gate is actually high enough up the value chain compared to logs that it is actually worth doing.

The trouble with Pine here is that there might be a very good use for it on-farm thus not having to even bother with trucking, but it rots easily unless treated, so it's of little value to a farmer. If I could come up with a mobile treating chamber, get the necessary permits and pass the needed unit standards/tests for chemical wood preservation, then there's far more likelihood of selling treated lumber to the farmer or surrounding farmers and avoiding the transport and loader/digger costs. There are also many stands that are only good for posts, which farmers need, but only if treated.

So, I'm trying to work out if it's worth the hassle, and would create a high enough value product - lumber or treated lumber, to save the wood from a burn pile. Jury is still out on that though.


----------



## TheJollyLogger

For as big as Alaska is, I sure have had to work some tight drops so far.


----------



## treeslayer2003

was just thinkin you overdue...........thought ya mighta got married again


----------



## TheJollyLogger

No, the first one went mental, the second one's moving back to Seattle, we'll have to see about Number three tomorrow night, or tomorrow evening, or tomorrow dusk, or whatever the heck it is up here.


----------



## JakeG

I believe ole Jon once referred to you as, The Spouse Collector. That man is hilarious. Technically you're not collecting them, or are you?


----------



## TheJollyLogger

No, I always put 'em back where I found 'em, usually in much better financial shape.


----------



## northmanlogging

That tree falling was nice work... the rest well... if ya can't get one to stick around maybe you should aim for a slightly different type of target, say maybe pick a slightly better bar to troll for babes, a few dollars more for a beer and whine cooler could save you thousands later in life?


----------



## TheJollyLogger

LOL, I will take that advice to heart. Maybe slow down to speed up works for more than trees, huh?


----------



## HuskStihl

That's a great fall Jeff, did you use a line? I would seriously have bounced that off the building, into the fence, destroying both. Thx for the props JakeG, but I don't remember saying that. I'm just amazed at the tolerance for pain and suffering that Jolly Jeff seems to possess. When my friends tell me they're re-marrying, I'm like "didn't you already try that", or "you know you don't _have _to do that again"


----------



## TheJollyLogger

Hey Jon, SOP to use a line around structures, but that just brings the weight over. Never seen a line outrun gravity, at that point the holding wood's in control.As far as pain and suffering goes, hell, I'm a climber. P & S is how we know we're still alive.


----------



## Samlock

TheJollyLogger said:


> Hey Jon, SOP to use a line around structures, but that just brings the weight over. Never seen a line outrun gravity, at that point the holding wood's in control.As far as pain and suffering goes, hell, I'm a climber. P & S is how we know we're still alive.



A local guy here showed me once a kinetic rope, explaining how it is going to pull the tree all the way onto the ground. I managed to talk him out of it.


----------



## TheJollyLogger

Samlock said:


> A local guy here showed me once a kinetic rope, explaining how it is going to pull the tree all the way onto the ground. I managed to talk him out of it.



As long as you have a pulling force that can outrun gravity, you're good to go. Until then, I'll keep dressing my notches and watching my back cut.


----------



## Samlock

TheJollyLogger said:


> Until then, I'll keep dressing my notches and watching my blackouts.



You probably should. Years ago a friend of mine got married with an inuit girl in Denmark while he was having a blackout.


----------



## TheJollyLogger

Dang it, that was the spellchecker. I edited it to say backcut! But hang on, all it takes to meet a cute Inuit girl is to have a blackout? Hmmm, this weekend could be interesting. Pics on Monday.


----------



## Samlock

TheJollyLogger said:


> Dang it, that was the spellchecker. I edited it to say backcut! But hang on, all it takes to meet a cute Inuit girl is to have a blackout? Hmmm, this weekend could be interesting. Pics on Monday.



Luckily I caught the (Freudian) slip before editing. I mean, the girl in Denmark wasn't cute, and her family refused to let my pard leave their tent. The rescue operation was interesting.

Good luck!


----------



## TheJollyLogger

At least I know I've got a buddy that specializes in Inuit tent marriage rescue ops. That opens up the field a lot!


----------



## northmanlogging

Samlock said:


> Luckily I caught the (Freudian) slip before editing. I mean, the girl in Denmark wasn't cute, and her family refused to let my pard leave their tent. The rescue operation was interesting.
> 
> Good luck!



Ok ya can't say rescue opp, marriage, and interesting without telling the rest of the story, did he fake his own death, did you "kidnap him" in the middle of the night wearing checkered head scarfs and screaming dirka dirka... Wait I know you held the family at saw point and traded an ugly/socially inept acquaintance for your buddy!


----------



## Samlock

Long story short... We traded him for alcohol. It didn't work out, though. They accepted the booze, but still the girl produced horrible noises when her husband made a move away from the tent area. In the end he managed to sneak off when the family got drunk.


----------



## TheJollyLogger

And all this time I've been using alcohol to try and get INTO the tent.


----------



## Gologit

TheJollyLogger said:


> Dang it, that was the spellchecker. I edited it to say backcut! But hang on, all it takes to meet a cute Inuit girl is to have a blackout? Hmmm, this weekend could be interesting. Pics on Monday.


Might be worth a try. Do you like a diet of dried fish and whale blubber?


----------



## Metals406

Gologit said:


> Might be worth a try. Do you like a diet of dried fish and whale blubber?



Who doesn't??


----------



## JakeG

HuskStihl said:


> Guys, just like Ice P and EricNY, I've signed on with an outfit! The owner is *Jeff, a friendly spouse collecting kinda guy. *He's entrusting me with the most important job in tree care, the groundie! I told him I have some awesome saws, and mad skills, but he said he has a more important job for me first! Wish me luck!





Lmao, good evening good sir.


----------



## HuskStihl

Musta posted that during a blackout, don't remember any Inuit's tho


----------



## Samlock

HuskStihl said:


> Musta posted that during a blackout, don't remember any Inuit's tho



There's a reason why they call it a blackout.


----------



## slowp

Some dangerous advice being given in the firewood forum...wedges never needed. It is down towards the end.
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/question-about-cutting-trees-for-firewood.64133/page-2


----------



## treeslayer2003

hey falling question, on a block face, the hinge strip stays on the butt instead of the stump. no fiber pull but seems like a wast of time trimming them off. hardwood if it makes a difference. am i doing sumthing wrong? butt looks great exept for the little strip.........looks like some one tacked a 1x1 on it lol.


----------



## northmanlogging

sounds normal to me, Usually use a block face when I want more control and a slower fall, so if I get some stump pull oh well.


----------



## HuskStihl

On the million or so block faces I've executed, the hinge wood stays on the stump


Sorry for being a jerk, for some reason (maybe beer?) I couldn't help myself. In actuality I have no real idea about how a block face should work.


----------



## madhatte

It'll stay where it held on. It can break off from either end; what matters is that it holds on until the stem is horizontal. Block faces are for holding the stem to the stump 'til it hits the ground.


----------



## HuskStihl

I figured it would simply be a function of where you put u'r back cut. It should work the same whether the back cut is even with the top or bottom edges of the block, or right in the middle of the face, but if you don't want extra wood on the stem, bring the back cut in even with the top inner edge of the blocked out face, and stay on the trigger a bit longer. That's what I did when I was heli-logging in New Zealand. 
Sorry for ****ing up the thread, but you guys know how much I like to talk about this stuff.


----------



## treeslayer2003

yup, even at the top.
madhatte, i have found it eliminates fiber pull on some spiecies as well.........large sweet gum and beech, it works slick.


----------



## KiwiBro

HuskStihl said:


> That's what I did when I was heli-logging in New Zealand.


Pics or it didn't happen.
The only time we call in a bird is for an evac' if an apprentice's back fails under the weight while they carry the logs out. I'll see if I can rustle up a picture from my apprenticeship days...


----------



## HuskStihl

I previously had felt rather sheepish talking any sort of tech with fallers in a falling thread.........until now!!


----------



## madhatte

I had to look up the runes. Clever. I like it.


----------



## 1270d

i always thought it was an NM logo of some sort. The runes are clever


----------



## TheJollyLogger

I really prefer an open face over a block face. If it's open enough, it'll stay attached to the stump, like this.


----------



## 1270d

My boy at one of the log yards


----------



## HuskStihl

TheJollyLogger said:


> I really prefer an open face over a block face. If it's open enough, it'll stay attached to the stump, like this.View attachment 355133


You do a much better job around fences than I do. Unless your goal was demolition, in which case you messed up. That exact scenario is why I have really enjoyed the conversion to full wrap handles


----------



## steve easy




----------



## HuskStihl

steve easy said:


> View attachment 355457
> View attachment 355458


A block with some boring thru the face?


----------



## Metals406

That hinge is fat, like a Walmart booty.


----------



## treeslayer2003

HuskStihl said:


> A block with some boring thru the face?


looks like it........real heavy leaner i guess


----------



## madhatte

Huh. The corners of the hinge are nipped, and that's a conventional face. Lots of stump shot, and a bore through the face? Odd way to fell a tree, but the direction the pulled fibers are pointing say that it worked well enough.


----------



## HuskStihl

Must have been leaning pretty good to have not gotten thru the back cut more. I'm seeing a blocked out face, but hopefully the OP will return and spill the beans


----------



## KiwiBro

Steve, you may have to only post the pics of the simple stumps mate. Us Kiwi's are on such a higher level the poor buggers on the other side of the planet can't understand why the hell we do what we do.

Guys, that stump is what we here call the methHead lotto special with a left right out variance. We only roll out that cut to impress the inspectors or show off. Although we used to have an unwritten rule not to ever show pictures of it on a public forum for fear of our awesomeness being copied in the PNW or the like. But I guess it had to slip out at some stage.

I just ask that you have a medically trained spotter and evac bird on standby when you try this for the first time. Thanks in advance.


----------



## northmanlogging

This may be my personal best/worst...

Did especially for RandyMac


----------



## steve easy

KiwiBro said:


> Steve, you may have to only post the pics of the simple stumps mate. Us Kiwi's are on such a higher level the poor buggers on the other side of the planet can't understand why the hell we do what we do.
> 
> Guys, that stump is what we here call the methHead lotto special with a left right out variance. We only roll out that cut to impress the inspectors or show off. Although we used to have an unwritten rule not to ever show pictures of it on a public forum for fear of our awesomeness being copied in the PNW or the like. But I guess it had to slip out at some stage.
> 
> I just ask that you have a medically trained spotter and evac bird on standby when you try this for the first time. Thanks in advance.


Lol


----------



## treeslayer2003

northy, fiber puller.........lol, we all do it once in a while.....................tell no one

steve, yuk bro............see above


----------



## steve easy

treeslayer2003 said:


> northy, fiber puller.........lol, we all do it once in a while.....................tell no one
> 
> steve, yuk bro............see above


Yuk... thats what i thought before i started the saw, first 2m of log went in firewood pile. Would be better if they were all as easy as this one.


----------



## Easttnlogger1

Here's a fair poplar I cut this morning, there's 2 or 3 more below it.... Man I love cuttin poplar lol


----------



## Easttnlogger1

A decent northern red oak I cut a few days ago... Put a bore cut on this one it was a pretty bad leaner, u can see how the butt is a bit crooked up in the air..


----------



## Easttnlogger1

Another northern red oak, this one was a pretty nice tree, not huge but kept its size.


----------



## Easttnlogger1

Here's a pretty good white oak, not perfect but pretty nice... Well that's about all I got worth showin y'all right now lol.. Try to take some more pics this week if I think of it


----------



## treeslayer2003

the white oak looks to have shake? or is it stain?


----------



## 1270d

Steve said:


> Who built the first portable gasoline powered chain saw???


Looks like it has a big seam higher up


----------



## Easttnlogger1

That seam is from lightning, I forgot to add that when I posted the pic sorry guys.. It didnt really have shake It was just colored that way. Idk if the lighting had anything to do with it or not. 

Alot of the chestnut oak from this job has bad shake but most of the red oak an white oak ain't been to bad so far


----------



## treeslayer2003

oak has been hot here...........good prices and they ain't picky. you have some nice timber out your way.


----------



## Easttnlogger1

treeslayer2003 said:


> oak has been hot here...........good prices and they ain't picky. you have some nice timber out your way.



Yeah oak has been doin good here to.. The vaneer buyer paid $1.50 pbf for tht white oak even with that big lighting streak in it... Chestnut oak is bringing good if its big enough to make quarter saw


----------



## Easttnlogger1

We been in some good timber for a while. The job I was on before this one was really good as good as it gets around here. Had some really red oak and chestnut oak... One red oak I can remember had 1600 feet in the butt log. But it was steep as hell guess that's why it hadn been logged


----------



## 1270d

I would love to see that 1600 ft oak log


----------



## treeslayer2003

etl, what do you call chestnut oak? different regions have different names for trees.


----------



## Easttnlogger1

1270d said:


> I would love to see that 1600 ft oak log


 
I don't have a pic of that particular log I don't think. There was a red oak that had up rooted ive got a pic of ill post. I think it had around 1500 ft In a 16 ft log


----------



## Easttnlogger1

Here's the red oak that had up rooted. It had a 16 ft butt it was 40 inches or so at the tip... I know its odd that I don't have a pic of that big log lol I didn't take one for some odd reason but its a true story... It was about the same size as this one just a lil bigger


----------



## treeslayer2003

yer makin me want to move to Tn. lol.


----------



## Easttnlogger1

Lol there ain't much timber like that around here. If there is any its so steep nobody has wanted to cut it. 

Ill try to take a pic of a chestnut oak tomorrow, idk how to explain it all ive ever heard them called is a chestnut oak.

How big is that poplar? It's a good one


----------



## treeslayer2003

Easttnlogger1 said:


> Lol there ain't much timber like that around here. If there is any its so steep nobody has wanted to cut it.
> 
> Ill try to take a pic of a chestnut oak tomorrow, idk how to explain it all ive ever heard them called is a chestnut oak.
> 
> How big is that poplar? It's a good one


i think it was 50"............been a while. that was less than half the tree..........and played hell loading it.


----------



## treeslayer2003

here is a pretty white oak from a few years ago when i was still stump jumpin............yes boys that is a husky lol, 281 told yas i used to run um.


----------



## Easttnlogger1

Yeah those big logs are hard to deal with. What part of ky are u from?


----------



## Easttnlogger1

That's a fine lookin white oak... What are u callin stump jumpin? If ya don't mind me askin


----------



## treeslayer2003

i'm in maryland bro....close to delaware.

stump jumpin is not using a face and hinge, just cutting um off as fast as ya can basicly...........dangerous. also called slick stumpin...........popular in the south.
i pretty much face and hinge every thing now.............tried GOL a couple times, makes the hair on back o mah neck stand up lol.


----------



## paccity




----------



## treeslayer2003

the wedge marks look right funny on that huge butt


----------



## Easttnlogger1

treeslayer2003 said:


> i'm in maryland bro....close to delaware.
> 
> stump jumpin is not using a face and hinge, just cutting um off as fast as ya can basicly...........dangerous. also called slick stumpin...........popular in the south.
> i pretty much face and hinge every thing now.............tried GOL a couple times, makes the hair on back o mah neck stand up lol.[/QUOTEOf
> 
> Oh sorry bout that I could of swore I seen u were in ky in another post... Must have read it wrong...
> 
> I thought that was what stump jumpin was lol I was just makin sure we were on the same page... I've never cut like that. I've heard of ppl doin it never sounded to safe to me lol


----------



## Easttnlogger1

paccity said:


> View attachment 356480
> View attachment 356481
> View attachment 356482



Now that's a tree lol.. How big is that butt?


----------



## northmanlogging

Found this, enjoy


----------



## rwoods

NML, now that was a considerate faller. I liked how he shut off that noisy old saw so we could hear the wood. Ron


----------



## northmanlogging

Hel I shut it off so I can enjoy the racket!


----------



## HuskStihl

treeslayer2003 said:


> i'm in maryland bro....close to delaware.
> 
> stump jumpin is not using a face and hinge, just cutting um off as fast as ya can basicly...........dangerous. also called slick stumpin...........popular in the south.
> i pretty much face and hinge every thing now.............tried GOL a couple times, makes the hair on back o mah neck stand up lol.


Ya probably were forced to quit stump jumpin' when ya took up with the 046's


----------



## northmanlogging

Yep... here's this thing I did today...


----------



## HuskStihl

northmanlogging said:


> Yep... here's this thing I did today...



Dude, it is apparently a video of u'r privates. No thanks.


----------



## treeslayer2003

no vid northy...........


----------



## treeslayer2003

HuskStihl said:


> Ya probably were forced to quit stump jumpin' when ya took up with the 046's


lol..........yea, no it was the older fallers here that took time to explain how and why there methods worked. most of us southern boys learned to jump from our fathers. i never saw any one around here make a proper face or hinge.
never knew what GOL was either..............still not comfortable with that..........prolly never will be.


----------



## northmanlogging

Try it now... I dun skrewed it up... ignore the first image.


----------



## treeslayer2003

pretty big stick bro..........wind was swirlin a bit eh? would been nice to be 10' tall for that lol. sumtimes i will push a log up beside em.


----------



## HuskStihl

northmanlogging said:


> Try it now... I dun skrewed it up... ignore the first image.


That was pretty cool Sir. I woulda needed a step ladder. Who were you yelling at, did you have a line somebody was pulling? You also forgot to yell timber. That's very important. Thanks for posting it, BTW


----------



## northmanlogging

Rigged and pulled it with the skidder, Twas leaning over a barn. I brought the spring boards for this one but decided not to bother with em.


----------



## HuskStihl

That's a relief! I totally thought you were finally having that psychotic break I think we all know is coming


----------



## Easttnlogger1

treeslayer2003 said:


> etl, what do you call chestnut oak? different regions have different names for trees.



Sorry it took so long to post a pic I just ain't got around to it. This is what we call a chestnut oak I told u guys I'd post a pic of one so here ya go


----------



## Easttnlogger1

Here's another pic of one


----------



## treeslayer2003

we call that rock oak...........and sell it as rock oak

what we call chestnut oak is a white oak.............and yes i am aware some say rock oak is a white oak.......but it damn sure looks n smells like a red oak to me.

thats a nice stick by the way.......no matter what we call it lol.


----------



## Easttnlogger1

I've never heard it called rock oak but I guess they all have different names for all of them in different places. We sell them for chestnut oak here. They bring more than anything but walnut and vaneer grade white oak. 

As far as mill grade logs there bringing the most right now. Do they do good up ur way?


----------



## treeslayer2003

what ya mean by mill grade? sawlogs are doing well, but export pays the most. really any hardwood is paying as much as ive ever seen.

the big thing is what they let go now.....what we used to saw mill now can export..........knotty white oak tops stave.

i wish big pine would come up some.


----------



## treeslayer2003

and yes the rock oak does pay very well...........we have very little. cherrybark oak does well also.


----------



## lfnh

Called it rock oak. mostly ridges and stunted. few like this.
On the chesnut oak, anyone have a field pic of swamp chesnut oak. (not swamp white oak)?


----------



## treeslayer2003

lfnh said:


> Called it rock oak. mostly ridges and stunted. few like this.
> On the chesnut oak, anyone have a field pic of swamp chesnut oak. (not swamp white oak)?


no pic but you are right there are two different chestnut oaks, swamp and high ground..........i can tell you they both have very large acorns and leaves but the swamp has the biggest. i ain't got into any lately.


----------



## Easttnlogger1

W


treeslayer2003 said:


> what ya mean by mill grade? sawlogs are doing well, but export pays the most. really any hardwood is paying as much as ive ever seen.
> 
> the big thing is what they let go now.....what we used to saw mill now can export..........knotty white oak tops stave.
> 
> i wish big pine would come up some.[/QUOTE
> Mill grade stuff is lower grade or saw logs, about the only thing that exports here is white oak, walnut, wild cherry. I agree on the rough white oak goin for stave logs. Even small white oak that's pretty rough will go for stave here. Some buyers cull worse than others though


----------



## Easttnlogger1

treeslayer2003 said:


> and yes the rock oak does pay very well...........we have very little. cherrybark oak does well also.[
> 
> What is cherry bark oak? Do ya got a pic of one?


----------



## treeslayer2003

apperently not, i had to look thru my pics..........heres a pic of some stuff from a few years ago i came across. all can tell ya is they have bark like a cherry and get tall and straight.


----------



## Easttnlogger1

I think this is what your talking about. I actually don't know exactly what kind of oak this is for sure I usually just call it a red oak I think it's in the red oak family. A guy that hauls some of our logs calls them a scarlet oak but now that u mention it the bark does look alot like a cherry


----------



## Philbo

Nice stumps and sticks Easttnlogger1. I'm just over the NC line in Watauga/Ashe co. Where do you cut in east TN?


----------



## Easttnlogger1

I live in hancock county it's on the va border. Mostly work around here within a hour or so of where I live. I'm not real familiar with nc. Do u live in ashville?


----------



## mdavlee

You're next county over from me. You in a Sneedville or pressman's home area?


----------



## steve easy

The better side of the log, cut 8m off and let it roll down through the fire.


----------



## Trx250r180

Get in line ............


----------



## Easttnlogger1

mdavlee said:


> You're next county over from me. You in a Sneedville or pressman's home area?


 
I love in sneedville, where do u live?


----------



## mdavlee

Easttnlogger1 said:


> I love in sneedville, where do u live?



Right at the edge of church hill and surgoinsville.


----------



## Easttnlogger1

I know that area a little. I used to work at tengasco methane plant at the land fill in church hill... I the guy I used to work for is logging in surgoinsville right now... U know Ronnie Holt?


----------



## mdavlee

I've heard the name. You know Carl and his brother that are in the area? They logging right off the 4 lane there on the left headed to Rogersville?


----------



## Easttnlogger1

Does he live over ur way or in sneedville?


----------



## mdavlee

Yeah they live in Sneedville. He's on here as wheelman.


----------



## Easttnlogger1

Yeah I know them very well. Wheelman is actually Carl's son. They haul all our logs there a big help to logging industry around here... They just haul logs for people Carl logged for years and they got into hauling. They haul alot for Rnk logging he lives in Rogersville that may be him that's logging where ur talking About


----------



## mdavlee

It may be RNK. I can't remember now. It's been about 6 weeks since I went by there now.


----------



## Easttnlogger1

Are they loggin on the west end of Rogersville on 11w? In behind bailys metal roofing?


----------



## mdavlee

They have had that set up for years. At one time there was a log yard there.


----------



## steve easy




----------



## M.R.

One of those times when one's a wishing for a bit more bar length, than a 28" on this 4' DF snag the carpenter ants were taking a liking too. 
We'll see what kind of salvage
The Lucas mill can recover 
ou
t of it.


----------



## northmanlogging

Hey Steve you gots some funny look'n stumps...

Why?

Not bustin yer balls, just curious...


----------



## HuskStihl

northmanlogging said:


> Hey Steve you gots some funny look'n stumps...
> 
> Why?
> 
> Not bustin yer balls, just curious...


I love those stumps, kinda like a falling CSI. The last one looks like a shallow conventional notch on the left, with a bored out area (too far) behind the face, but the bar didn't reach all the way thru on the borecut, and it was kinda "half coos bay'd on the far side, then releasing the strap from the back. 
This is way above my pay grade, but a deeper notch, and putting the borecut 2" instead of 5" behind the face will pull a lot less fiber


----------



## treeslayer2003

looks like he is doing problem removals..........? one of those was almost horizontal.


----------



## treeslayer2003

i did GOL a small ash the other day, it was leaning 45* or more..........worked like a charm but still felt really weird lol.


----------



## Samlock

steve easy said:


>



That's crazy looking stuff, Steve. I like it.


----------



## Gologit

HuskStihl said:


> This is way above my pay grade, but a deeper notch, and putting the borecut 2" instead of 5" behind the face will pull a lot less fiber



Every time? In every tree? You're dealing in absolutes again. Quit it.


----------



## HuskStihl

Gologit said:


> Every time? In every tree? You're dealing in absolutes again. Quit it.


Ya. I find the whole "do you really want to like this post" query not too helpful. What I need is an "It's 2am and you are making multiple presumptuous posts in the F&L forum, why don't you quit and go to bed?" warning


----------



## Trx250r180

northmanlogging said:


> Hey Steve you gots some funny look'n stumps...
> 
> Why?
> 
> Not bustin yer balls, just curious...




Looks like he bored in to see how solid the tree was ,then did a T- coos bay to keep from tree breaking ?Am i on the right track here ?


----------



## HuskStihl

treeslayer2003 said:


> i did GOL a small ash the other day, it was leaning 45* or more..........worked like a charm but still felt really weird lol.


Mike, I'm so happy you're joining the Swedish Revolution! I realize you are probably lacking the proper GOL accessories, so this should be arriving for you on the Eastern Shore early next week!


----------



## Metals406

Looks like he bored the heart, cut the cheeks & started cutting up the back.


----------



## treeslayer2003

HuskStihl said:


> Mike, I'm so happy you're joining the Swedish Revolution! I realize you are probably lacking the proper GOL accessories, so this should be arriving for you on the Eastern Shore early next week!
> 
> View attachment 359848


if any of you ever see me in that...........go get Randy Mac and plenty of 404 cuz im gone off the deep end lol.
no Jon, i won't make a habbit of that.....feels weird, but it does work.


----------



## steve easy

northmanlogging said:


> Hey Steve you gots some funny look'n stumps...
> 
> Why?
> 
> Not bustin yer balls, just curious...


All good, havnt had an expert train me. Self taught = funny stumps i guess


HuskStihl said:


> I love those stumps, kinda like a falling CSI. The last one looks like a shallow conventional notch on the left, with a bored out area (too far) behind the face, but the bar didn't reach all the way thru on the borecut, and it was kinda "half coos bay'd on the far side, then releasing the strap from the back.
> This is way above my pay grade, but a deeper notch, and putting the borecut 2" instead of 5" behind the face will pull a lot less fiber


 Couldnt stand on far side 3m drop off,so thats what that cut is called a coos bay'd? you guys lose me with your lingo, i can handle a little fibre pull.


treeslayer2003 said:


> looks like he is doing problem removals..........? one of those was almost horizontal.


An uncared for farm block, about 12 ugly ones left. Only doing the ugly ones to get at the pruned ones in a flat paddock.


----------



## Metals406

I have another stump guess. . . If the head lean is on the left (as pictured) -- he faced it, boring out the heart and setting the hinge from the near side. . . Walked around and cut the far side cheek, and cut up the back (right side of pic) to finish.

Am I close Steve?


----------



## HuskStihl

That's exactly what I said, just more better!


----------



## Metals406

HuskStihl said:


> That's exactly what I said, just more better!


I cheated off your notes. [emoji85]


----------



## northmanlogging

I think I get it now... 

Coos is a local name, like humboldt, that has spread mostly world wide, for nipping the corners and leaving a narrow post or triangle of wood to sever, VS the GOL method of boring in and leaving a strap on the back to "trigger" the fall, both work ones faster and arguably safer, the other is just a bunch of dancing with twigs...


----------



## Metals406

northmanlogging said:


> I think I get it now...
> 
> Coos is a local name, like humboldt, that has spread mostly world wide, for nipping the corners and leaving a narrow post or triangle of wood to sever, VS the GOL method of boring in and leaving a strap on the back to "trigger" the fall, both work ones faster and arguably safer, the other is just a bunch of dancing with twigs...


Dancing with Twigs. . . Wasn't Kevin Costner in that one?


----------



## Gologit

Metals406 said:


> Dancing with Twigs. . . Wasn't Kevin Costner in that one?



No, that was Mikhail Baryshnikov. Don't you guys from Montucky know anything?


----------



## treeslayer2003

LOL


----------



## rwoods

There is a thread "Got Lucky" in the picture forum. While the OP makes good points, he doesn't know what a hinge is. Varying terminology for our cuts seems standard fare, but not recognizing a hinge indicates to me that this guy might need a lesson or two that I am not qualified to give for his own safety. Take a look. Maybe I am just overly concerned. Thanks, Ron


----------



## northmanlogging

Here's what I've been up to the last 2 days, not sure how to splice these into one, but you get the idea.


----------



## steve easy

Thanks to all, for the criticism/comments on what i can improve on. Only trying to learn.


----------



## Trx250r180

Montucky ............


----------



## Cedarkerf

The Montuckians we met a couple years back at their GTG were good folk if not sophisticated like our Coulieforniae friends


----------



## Metals406

Cedarkerf said:


> The Montuckians we met a couple years back at their GTG were good folk if not sophisticated like our Coulieforniae friends


Brian, we prefer the term "Smarterer Hillbillies."

LOL


----------



## coltont




----------



## coltont

This load was 3700 feet 8 trees. All white and red oak that averaged 1.10 mbf. I've never cut oak that brought money like
this


----------



## treeslayer2003

yes sir, good oak is hot now......get it wile the getting is good.


----------



## coltont

I hear red oak is on the way down on the price scale again. Not a big drop though.


----------



## HuskStihl

Congrats on the haul!


----------



## treeslayer2003

could be........white oak is always more here so i gauge the market more with it..........we have so many different kinds of red oak, i don't pay much attention to it any more.........just put it on the truck lol.


----------



## treeslayer2003




----------



## coltont

Why such a big bar for a little tree? And why not cut the little garbage out first to make it not look like pineapples everywhere! Not bashing you just seems to be common practice up here


----------



## 1270d

coltont said:


> View attachment 365559
> View attachment 365560



too bad for that spiral seam, would have been a nice log.


----------



## HuskStihl

coltont said:


> Why such a big bar for a little tree? And why not cut the little garbage out first to make it not look like pineapples everywhere! Not bashing you just seems to be common practice up here


1) I bet he didn't feel like switching bars
2) I bet he figured the skidder wouldn't care about the underbrush
3) You need to cut Mike some slack. He's fairly new to the whole logging thing


----------



## northmanlogging

coltont said:


> Why such a big bar for a little tree? And why not cut the little garbage out first to make it not look like pineapples everywhere! Not bashing you just seems to be common practice up here



Big bars save time, less work limbing, can stay on one side of the tree while falling it, use the tip and nip away at the scary ones with an extra foot or 2 of head start. Plus making laps around the tree gets old.

Not putting words into the slayers mouth, but probably left the little **** on account of its a waste of time and energy to **** around with it. If its not within range of my bar or in my escape paths, I don't bother with it. Flapping a 25-30 pound saw around takes a lot of energy, after 6 hours you start to look at things in the does it need to be cut and is it in the way, cause like mike after hacking trees down, then I get to hop in the skidder and drag cable around for the next 2-3 hours (mike has a grapple so therefore its cheating...)


----------



## treeslayer2003

lol, i liked Colton's post and the site asked me if i was sure LMAO! 
to answer his ? its a 32" bar, that tree was about 31". there are 40"+ pines in this stand. i am a face and hinge faller now and i ain't goin back to short bars.....you should give it a try some time.

this block is a clearcut, it will get replanted. pretty much only over size and brush in it. what you see are holly bushes and stunted black gum. the forester prefers i leave it standing so they can more easily plant around it all. the brush will be sprayed by a chopper after the planting.

boys its done different all over, nothing wrong with ????

Colton, you are doing the GOL thing aren't you? i have done it a little, i don't much care for it but what ever you comfortable with and gets it done.


----------



## bitzer

Holy dogshit son! Why I coulda tripped them pigs with my trusty 16"er! Damn near danced em to the ground! Whooo-eee boys thats the hot ticket!


----------



## jamin alegre




----------



## HuskStihl

Sir,
I apologize to be the one to have to point this out, but u'r doing it completely ass-backwards. You should first cut the tree down, _then _you cut the limbs off. It may take some getting used to, but you'll get much more wood to the mill that way


----------



## northmanlogging

P.S. Colton if I came off a ****... its not on purpose, just hard to get some things across without sounding pissed, but short bars are lame.... just sayin...


----------



## coltont

Northman you didn't come off like an ass I know what you mean. And tree slayer. Not much gol cutting here but this timber is way too big just to back cut and chase. You'd have fiber pull out the waazoo. Hey if your way cuts and gets the wood on the ground and it isn't destroyed that's all that counts. I understand the underbrush situation now that you say your re planting and it's a clear cut. We let the squirrels do it up here. In fact I just talked to a local forester the other day and he told me that the woods are growing faster than they are getting cut.


----------



## bitzer

[QUOTE="coltont, post: 4933431, member: 34349") Not much gol cutting here but this timber is way too big just to back cut and chase. You'd have fiber pull out the waazoo. Hey if your way cuts and gets the wood on the ground and it isn't destroyed that's all that counts. [/QUOTE]

Therein lies the art. No timber is too big to back cut and chase. Its how you handle your face.


----------



## treeslayer2003

+1 i used to think the same way but bitzer is right, it all about forming the face an hinge right.


----------



## northmanlogging

yup, get the hinge to fold until it breaks then the face closes completely.


----------



## RandyMac

steep and deep


----------



## Trx250r180

Yeah and those stupid wrap handles you guys use ,how could you ever flush cut with such a thing ............


----------



## coltont

. 
Had some fun today with the timber. My cousin spiked up a tree up above the one I was cutting and filmed it


----------



## coltont




----------



## treeslayer2003

here ya go Colton, 7 count white oak load, about 4500ft doyle.
the felled tree was face n hinged with most of the heart gutted before the back cut was made.


----------



## coltont

Looks like the kind of timber you see being cut and you've been looking at it for years and makes you get aggravated! Nice stuff man


----------



## coltont

Pure white hard maple


----------



## treeslayer2003

hey Colton, you got tulip poplar up there?


----------



## treeslayer2003

coltont said:


> Looks like the kind of timber you see being cut and you've been looking at it for years and makes you get aggravated! Nice stuff man


lol, yea i get out bid every once in a while....it sucs but its part of it. would you believe that white oak tract dad cut 27 years prior? its good oak ground.
no hard maple down here.......wish it was.


----------



## coltont




----------



## treeslayer2003

coltont said:


> View attachment 365743


are you shipping long or still cutting log length?


----------



## Trx250r180

someone cut into a pumpkin patch around here like those you guys are posting ,been seeing 6-7 log loads in the am on the way to work again ,41 footers


----------



## treeslayer2003

dang Brian, i thought all the trees out there was that big and bigger lol.


----------



## Trx250r180

when i was younger 1 log would take up both bunks once in a while


----------



## coltont

Cutting tons of 16s and 14s. They love then. Hell 9 inches of white outside the green mashed veneer


----------



## coltont

Makes not mashed


----------



## coltont

. This crazy phone I can never figure it out


----------



## treeslayer2003

i can sell any poplar that size for export.......a few bumps don't seem to hurt it if its big.........even a small hole don't hurt it any more.


----------



## coltont

We have a really good relationship with the grade mill we sell to. They actually buy the whole tree minus pulp from us. We run 2 crews one cuts the pulp job and I cut all the log timber jobs with one other guy. We do ten loads of logs a week and the mill never says to slow down it's nice.


----------



## treeslayer2003

you sure like to back bar alot...........you sure you ain't from the south?


----------



## treeslayer2003

i sell 90% of my hard wood to a grade buyer..........saw logs go to small mills. pulpwood is slow starvation, i only mess with it if i have to on a clearcut.


----------



## coltont

I grew up cutting down and that's the way that works good for me. I do allot of back cutting and chasing but in the real big stuff that's the style I like to cut....like you see on the video. I like low stumps and no fiber pull.


----------



## coltont

Grapple skidder on pulp and the cable skidder that I run on the log jobs.


----------



## RandyMac

I saw a fiber puller, maybe two


----------



## coltont

It's likely. But nothing to get concerned about.


----------



## coltont

It's the dirty prick in the center that'll get ya . Gotta gut em out


----------



## treeslayer2003

i saw you gut that red oak..............what you do with a heavy leaner?


----------



## Nate66n1

coltont said:


> It's the dirty prick in the center that'll get ya . Gotta gut em out


Not to derail the thread but where abouts are you in pennsyltucky?


----------



## HuskStihl

Colton, ya done anything to that 660 yet? Someday somebody might find a ring of butter around the tree you had just been working on


----------



## jamin alegre

HuskStihl said:


> Sir,
> I apologize to be the one to have to point this out, but u'r doing it completely ass-backwards. You should first cut the tree down, _then _you cut the limbs off. It may take some getting used to, but you'll get much more wood to the mill that way


That was the only limb I pieced out of 6. I set my rigging at top center and cut 40' + branches from the ground. I tied rope at top cut clean through let base of cut hit ground to take weight of rigging grabbed it w/ log truck and laid it down. Had it down in a day and stump the following day.
Mill is far from me 2-3hrs so I have stockpile and pick and choose what I am keeping. That was a silver maple is there any $ in that


----------



## jamin alegre

HuskStihl said:


> Sir,
> I apologize to be the one to have to point this out, but u'r doing it completely ass-backwards. You should first cut the tree down, _then _you cut the limbs off. It may take some getting used to, but you'll get much more wood to the mill that way




I was my last limb needed center of tree to rig down branch ? So how was I supposed to cut down tree first , _then _you cut the limbs off, each limb was a tree I filled this truck 3 times full of wood. Thats how big this tree was in between wires and over 2 houses.
This is truck I filled


----------



## jamin alegre

northmanlogging said:


> yup, get the hinge to fold until it breaks then the face closes completely.


I spider legged that limb. Put box toward my left/away from me. I have my guy let it come down till piece is level to 15% below level max. Or until piece starts turning once hinge pops or piece breaks off drop it below my feet. By doing it this way there is very little hit on ur rope or rigging very smooth and controlled


----------



## bitzer

Gotta love them arborists... Anyway... Colton not bad. That a 24" bar you runnin then? Once you get used to a longer bar it opens up a whole new world. Efficiency for one. No wasted movements. Fluidity and flow at the stump and on the buck. How you get paid makes a big difference to how you cut as well. If getting paid volume you definitely learn how to stream line all of your cutting techniques (or at least should). Low stump height is all well and good when its reasonable. When your spending 5 minutes on the stump plus another 2 or 3 in trimming flare I've already laid out and bucked another one. Not trying to be a ****, I just think most hardwood guys have the wrong idea as a whole. Trees don't grow in exact lengths.


----------



## bitzer

Some pics from the current job. My cell phone still sucks. Some real fun timber on this one. Taping out on more timber than I ever have before. Lots of fun marms that are about waist high. Just some really pretty red oak and cherry in general.





Some pics Icepick snapped of me. Meat and potatoes.




Swinging one around.




State land behind this one. Had to beat it up the hill. One of the last of the day of course.




My wife sent me this. Hopefully she has one on order for me.


----------



## Metals406

Low stumps are good and all, when and where needed. But cut'n in all that flair -- them old timers would be laughing themselves silly.

If it ain't in the way, cut the sumbeech off at the waist or nipples, get'n above the flair.

It's all scaled from the small end, sooooo.

It'd be a hoot to fall with some of you eastern/southern fellas on fires. Bout 5 minutes into the day I'd have ya sling'n long iron and make'n tall stumps. [emoji12]


----------



## Metals406

jamin alegre said:


> View attachment 365774
> View attachment 365775
> I was my last limb needed center of tree to rig down branch ? So how was I supposed to cut down tree first , _then _you cut the limbs off, each limb was a tree I filled this truck 3 times full of wood. Thats how big this tree was in between wires and over 2 houses.
> This is truck I filled
> View attachment 365776


He was yanking yer chain. ;-)


----------



## coltont

I'm from central pa nate. about 45 minutes south of state college. Nothing done to the 660 yet. In fact that saw I was running was an old beat 066 cause my normal saw got had by the skidder. Just when you think it's in a safe spot the skidder operator gets in a tight spot and has to turn a little bit wider with a big trip and.......You know the rest...


----------



## Nate66n1

Ok so closer to the Altoona area, I'm about 15 east of harrisburg. Good to see the logging business keeping you busy.


----------



## coltont

Yea it's been pretty good to me. I cut for a Mennonite you got lots of those down that way I believe. I was just down around liverpool catfishing......super good time.


----------



## Nate66n1

Haha yea there's a good many not to far from here. Anytime fishing is always a good time lol


----------



## jamin alegre

Metals406 said:


> He was yanking yer chain. ;-)


I was confused on comment now i see. "MUST B NICE" cutting trees over there, got 2 feet on the ground trying to land timber on little x that ur buddy put on the ground, or fell a tree through a hole in the surrounding trees so you don't break a limb. Heavy machine access too THE LIFE.
Now in NJ we have to lower most limbs, not to hit houses,cars,crew,etc. Lucky if I could get my handcart in some of these backyards. Over/Under wires. I could fall trees all day. boring. Thats why I cut here. 
Takin a tree down here is like putting a puzzle together and when complete sliding it off the table .
The adrenaline is much better, we make our trees do back flips like a acrobat when fellin, using zip-lines to move debri/logs over pools, sheds, houses, or highlines. Or cutting a 50ft leader steering it 180 degrees over a roof to the drop zone.
Over here we get paid mostly for a service as over there the end game is the product.
Just mesin I know fellin trees all day is hard work and can be just as technical.
HATS OFF to everyone who goes to work w/ a chainsaw everyday (professionally)


----------



## jamin alegre

Nate66n1 said:


> Ok so closer to the Altoona area, I'm about 15 east of harrisburg. Good to see the logging business keeping you busy.


Is there ever a demand for honey locust


----------



## coltont

Awesome post wood and firewood


----------



## treeslayer2003

black locust yes, IDK about honey locust............don't think i ever seen one here.


----------



## slowp

jamin alegre said:


> I was confused on comment now i see. "MUST B NICE" cutting trees over there, got 2 feet on the ground trying to land timber on little x that ur buddy put on the ground, or fell a tree through a hole in the surrounding trees so you don't break a limb. Heavy machine access too THE LIFE.
> Now in NJ we have to lower most limbs, not to hit houses,cars,crew,etc. Lucky if I could get my handcart in some of these backyards. Over/Under wires. I could fall trees all day. boring. Thats why I cut here.
> Takin a tree down here is like putting a puzzle together and when complete sliding it off the table .
> The adrenaline is much better, we make our trees do back flips like a acrobat when fellin, using zip-lines to move debri/logs over pools, sheds, houses, or highlines. Or cutting a 50ft leader steering it 180 degrees over a roof to the drop zone.
> Over here we get paid mostly for a service as over there the end game is the product.
> Just mesin I know fellin trees all day is hard work and can be just as technical.
> HATS OFF to everyone who goes to work w/ a chainsaw everyday (professionally)


 
Most folks on the logging and forestry forum are into making trees into logs and getting them on log trucks to send to a mill which sends them to stores. There are instances of "I think I can miss the brand new pickup sitting on the road but I'll get the shovel over to push the tree in the right direction." There aren't very many houses, powerlines, or cars to deal with. Trees hit the ground, are bucked and limbed, and then sent up or down the via whatever yarding system is there. There's no time for climbing and limbing, except when rigging a tree to use for lift...skyline yarding systems.


----------



## 1270d

Metals406 said:


> Low stumps are good and all, when and where needed. But cut'n in all that flair -- them old timers would be laughing themselves silly.
> 
> If it ain't in the way, cut the sumbeech off at the waist or nipples, get'n above the flair.
> 
> It's all scaled from the small end, sooooo.
> 
> It'd be a hoot to fall with some of you eastern/southern fellas on fires. Bout 5 minutes into the day I'd have ya sling'n long iron and make'n tall stumps. [emoji12]




let the old timers laugh, they werent cutting hardwood veneer in the midwest. and the ones that were cut low stumps. its where the moneys at in hardwood.

edit: bitzer cuts about the same height stumps i would. and Im not coordinated enough for long bars. 32" is good enough.


----------



## treeslayer2003

1270d said:


> let the old timers laugh, they werent cutting hardwood veneer in the midwest. and the ones that were cut low stumps. its where the moneys at in hardwood.
> 
> edit: bitzer cuts about the same height stumps i would. and Im not coordinated enough for long bars. 32" is good enough.


32 is a long bar today. thats what i run, only very seldom would it be nice to have more.

i have cut 5' timber but not lately........my father saw more of that than i ever will.


----------



## RandyMac

LoL!! Metals406 is an oldtimer?


----------



## IcePick

jamin alegre said:


> View attachment 365774
> View attachment 365775
> I was my last limb needed center of tree to rig down branch ? So how was I supposed to cut down tree first , _then _you cut the limbs off, each limb was a tree I filled this truck 3 times full of wood. Thats how big this tree was in between wires and over 2 houses.
> This is truck I filled
> View attachment 365776


wow, that's a monster silver maple! Those can be fun to climb and remove, sometimes. Lots of ups and downs. Good work.


----------



## IcePick

By the way, I see you're new here, the climbers forum is the first link at the top of the page.


----------



## IcePick

bitzer said:


> Gotta love them arborists... Anyway... Colton not bad. That a 24" bar you runnin then? Once you get used to a longer bar it opens up a whole new world. Efficiency for one. No wasted movements. Fluidity and flow at the stump and on the buck. How you get paid makes a big difference to how you cut as well. If getting paid volume you definitely learn how to stream line all of your cutting techniques (or at least should). Low stump height is all well and good when its reasonable. When your spending 5 minutes on the stump plus another 2 or 3 in trimming flare I've already laid out and bucked another one. Not trying to be a ****, I just think most hardwood guys have the wrong idea as a whole. Trees don't grow in exact lengths.


Yeah you're right Bob, I am pretty loveable. I hate the label arborist. I consider myself a tree worker. I take em down, any way I can. Arborists are more the nip plucking crab apple and magnolia types. BTW, my hand has swollen even more, looks like a ****ing catchers mitt.


----------



## slowp




----------



## 1270d

slowp, on thinnings like that do you run a ribbon line for the cable corridors so the fallers can make an appropriate lay? Or is it left up to the logger?


----------



## slowp

I didn't. The loggers flag in their corridors/skid trails before falling. I'd walk them and mark the extra trees needed to cut for the corridors. Then the rigging crew would show up after falling, decide the lift trees would not do, disparage the faller who chose the trees, saying, "He worked in the rigging. He should know better." and I'd make another trip to the ends of the corridors with paint.


----------



## Metals406

1270d said:


> let the old timers laugh, they werent cutting hardwood veneer in the midwest. and the ones that were cut low stumps. its where the moneys at in hardwood.
> 
> edit: bitzer cuts about the same height stumps i would. and Im not coordinated enough for long bars. 32" is good enough.


Fer peelers sure, don't make a lot of sense on saw logs.

Why did they ( the old timers) cut high stumps with ax and whip? Why are the guys in CA, BC, & AK still doing it today?

That's all I was say'n.


----------



## Metals406

RandyMac said:


> LoL!! Metals406 is an oldtimer?


Said no one ever.


----------



## treeslayer2003

ok, stump hieght............depends on what your cutting, what it looks like, and if a machine has to run thru the area. not quite as simple as east vs west here.
if its a money tree and its solid down low without to much flair, i'll cut it low with a conventional or open face. also if its a clear cut and equipment will be running thru the area repeatedly..........like the pine i posted earlyer. if the skidder will never go thru there or if its questionable down low or a twin, i'll cut a humbolt about waist high like this.
just depends. that said, a humbolt or block does seem to give maximum steerage.


----------



## Metals406

treeslayer2003 said:


> ok, stump hieght............depends on what your cutting, what it looks like, and if a machine has to run thru the area. not quite as simple as east vs west here.
> if its a money tree and its solid down low without to much flair, i'll cut it low with a conventional or open face. also if its a clear cut and equipment will be running thru the area repeatedly..........like the pine i posted earlyer. if the skidder will never go thru there or if its questionable down low or a twin, i'll cut a humbolt about waist high like this.View attachment 365905
> just depends. that said, a humbolt or block does seem to give maximum steerage.


Purdy much what I was saying. I wasn't trying to "one size fits all", I was saying that a lot of guys just by default cut low, and some guys just by default cut high. On helo ground, there's no reason to cut low stumps. All the stuff flies out vertical -- nothing has to get dragged up the hill.

On tractor ground, it makes a lot more sense to cut low stumps. Some homeowners on private land, they want everything cut real low. The center of a corridor also, if you're leaving high stumps the rigging crew will want to beat you with an ax handle.

So back to my original post -- I was referring to the guys that cut low in situations where the more comfortable higher stump could be cut, specially in saw logs, where the flares going to get bucked off anyway.


----------



## RandyMac

hardwood guys LoL!!
example of a way too low stump, could have saved lots of time going above the swell.


----------



## treeslayer2003

Metals406 said:


> Purdy much what I was saying. I wasn't trying to "one size fits all", I was saying that a lot of guys just by default cut low, and some guys just by default cut high. On helo ground, there's no reason to cut low stumps. All the stuff flies out vertical -- nothing has to get dragged up the hill.
> 
> On tractor ground, it makes a lot more sense to cut low stumps. Some homeowners on private land, they want everything cut real low. The center of a corridor also, if you're leaving high stumps the rigging crew will want to beat you with an ax handle.
> 
> So back to my original post -- I was referring to the guys that cut low in situations where the more comfortable higher stump could be cut, specially in saw logs, where the flares going to get bucked off anyway.


note only that Nate............now i will be unpopular lol...........alot of times that low stump on hardwood may bight ya in the azz.........thats where its more likely to have a blemish or to much sap........and they can't peel that big flair. so if it won't clean up real good by shaving, the exporter will just shorten it any way........now you get paid for a 10 instead of a 12.


----------



## treeslayer2003

RandyMac said:


> hardwood guys LoL!!
> example of a way too low stump, could have saved lots of time going above the swell.


how'd ya like to shave the swell off that one? lol


----------



## HuskStihl

Mike, with u'r good looks I doubt you'd ever be unpopular. Speaking of low stumps, back-barring, and a nasally sounding 660, how's our friend Clinton?


----------



## bitzer

Not to mention all the ******** back barring and dull chains involved in real low stmps. Don't get me wrong I love the back bar, just not around all that flair. All of the ground I cut on was pastured at some point in the last hundred years, so lots of ground compaction and exposed roots. The wood is always harder and gnarlier low too.


----------



## bitzer

HuskStihl said:


> Mike, with u'r good looks I doubt you'd ever be unpopular. Speaking of low stumps, back-barring, and a nasally sounding 660, how's our friend Clinton?


He sent me a text a while back, sayin he was in north Cali looking for a falling job. Haven't heard since.


----------



## HuskStihl

Thanks for the update. Hope he's doing ok. Got a demon or two following him around, that's for sure


----------



## mdavlee

He posted a video the other day on SH. He's back in Arkansas working.


----------



## bitzer

IcePick said:


> Yeah you're right Bob, I am pretty loveable. I hate the label arborist. I consider myself a tree worker. I take em down, any way I can. Arborists are more the nip plucking crab apple and magnolia types. BTW, my hand has swollen even more, looks like a ****ing catchers mitt.


Yeah I don't think of you as an arborist Brett, your way too humble and down to earth for that. Damn good work yesterday by the way! I still feel shitty about letting that limb yank so hard. It did pull me off the ground a few feet! Maybe some Jack Daniels will calm that swelling?


----------



## treeslayer2003

yep ol Clintons back home in arkysaw falling like a mad man lol. that dude has crazy energy.......wish i had half as much.
he seemed like he really enjoyed his trip west.........i hope that he did.


----------



## treeslayer2003

bitzer, no pics lately bro..........what ya cuttin now?

ice pick, sorry to hear of yer hand, heel fast.


----------



## Metals406

bitzer said:


> The wood is always harder and gnarlier low too.



Hence why I don't mind cut'n a long butt of a tree. Better scale fir the log at the mill, & butts make the worlds best firewood! It's always denser and more figured in the butt, best damn burn'n wood you'll find!

Not to mention, at this point in my area, firewood pays better than some logs or pulp. 

That load of fir I helped cut off my buddies, the mill took $375 in deductions. . . We have yet to be told why. That's ridiculous.

He'll have $400 in his pocket for all that hard work. When he can get $1,100 a load, all day long for firewood, and walk away with $800 in his pocket. Hell, he'd be doubling his money.


----------



## treeslayer2003

what? they were to small? or rot startin in um?


----------



## Metals406

treeslayer2003 said:


> what? they were to small? or rot startin in um?


Nope and nope. Let me find a pic.


----------



## Metals406

Everything was exactly to their log sheet specs, & the majority bucked at preferred length. They're not monster fir, but there were some good'ns buried in there.

He's supposed to find out why the ridonkulous deductions soon.


----------



## treeslayer2003

they saw logs. i always thought fir was almost like red wood..........more valuable than pine. of course the pine prices have been in the tank the last few years all across the southern pine belt.


----------



## Metals406

Best price around here I'm hearin' is red cedar. It's up over a $1000 per thousand, they were supposed to give my buddy 80 bucks a ton for this fir. 

Douglas fir does have a red hue, so sometimes it's called "red fir", especially in Idaho. They also call ponderosa pine "bull pine" in Idaho. It's a real pretty wood with a red hue and kind of a white sapwood. 

Our Montana fir grows a lot slower and is a lot more dense than coastal Douglas fir. It's been used for flooring here for years.


----------



## Metals406

Oh yeah, all of it is saw logs. Most of the smaller stuff probably goes through a scrag mill, & the bigger stuff thru a head rig.


----------



## treeslayer2003

i would think it would go for stud and dimensional lumber.........should get at least 250 a thousand.........wich ain't great.


----------



## northmanlogging

Metals406 said:


> Hence why I don't mind cut'n a long butt of a tree. Better scale fir the log at the mill, & butts make the worlds best firewood! It's always denser and more figured in the butt, best damn burn'n wood you'll find!
> 
> Not to mention, at this point in my area, firewood pays better than some logs or pulp.
> 
> That load of fir I helped cut off my buddies, the mill took $375 in deductions. . . We have yet to be told why. That's ridiculous.
> 
> He'll have $400 in his pocket for all that hard work. When he can get $1,100 a load, all day long for firewood, and walk away with $800 in his pocket. Hell, he'd be doubling his money.



I'm a think'n yer buddy just got ripped off, only reason I can think of is not leaving enough trim wood, but they don't deduct as defect that way usually just scale at the next lower length.

Doug and hemlock are going for 550-700 per 1k (the weird thing is they are priced about even?), and ceder is around 1200. Prices have been floating a bit but they are still better than they have been in the last 5 years.


----------



## Metals406

Yup, prices are up comparatively.

And I told my buddy he was getting ripped off -- so he best call and demand an answer.


----------



## northmanlogging

so i tried to take a vid of me falling a belly leaning, limb heavy, doug fir today... camera only had 9 minutes of film... took an hour to get it on the ground, jacking wedging, jacking wedging some more, stacking wedges... bending jack handle doing chin ups on it... probably should of had both jacks, but noooo I didn't think I needed it so I left it at home...

any way only fell two trees in 4 hours, but its better then half a load... isn't it a holiday or something?


----------



## kjp

northmanlogging said:


> I'm a think'n yer buddy just got ripped off, only reason I can think of is not leaving enough trim wood, but they don't deduct as defect that way usually just scale at the next lower length.
> 
> Doug and hemlock are going for 550-700 per 1k (the weird thing is they are priced about even?), and ceder is around 1200. Prices have been floating a bit but they are still better than they have been in the last 5 years.


Wow 550-700 is great. Hemlock here is going around 250. It about pays the same as log length firewood here but takes three times the work to limb


----------



## northmanlogging

Western Hemlock is very different then eastern hemlock, much harder and more tensile strength, its also very heavy...


----------



## kjp

northmanlogging said:


> Western Hemlock is very different then eastern hemlock, much harder and more tensile strength, its also very heavy...


I didn't know that. Stuff must be some strong and heavy cause the stuff we got here weighs more than a lot of the hardwoods and is pretty stringy tough stuff. I learn something new every day


----------



## IcePick

bitzer said:


> Yeah I don't think of you as an arborist Brett, your way too humble and down to earth for that. Damn good work yesterday by the way! I still feel shitty about letting that limb yank so hard. It did pull me off the ground a few feet! Maybe some Jack Daniels will calm that swelling?


It's all good, I didn't exactly explain anything in roping to you, just told ya to grab it, i'm ready! It went pretty good though, cept for the ceramic rabbit that I decapitated!


----------



## hammerlogging

a few recent pictures to share....
morning numbers, the time to add up.
a fellow on a nice poplar
stemming a road full. logger gravy
view from the face, hazy August day, nice view though.

Need some help out this way.....

Oh, and the anchovies were and experiment. Which will NOT be repeated. I'm not that tough!


----------



## treeslayer2003

good to hear from you Joe


----------



## bitzer

Joe- I'd love to kill some timber down your way. Super busy as usual here though. Just looked at a good sized clear cut yesterday. Some decent white oak. I'm predicting the second coming of the big cut over. At least in a smaller scale. Corn and beans are worth pushin the land up for now. Great pictures as usual. I've been drinking a sugar/salt mix that does a fine job. One quart water, half a teaspoon salt, six teaspoons sugar. It does wonders. Doctor approved. Really. I'm guessing thats what the salty fish were about? 

Mike- my phone's camera is scuffed up so all the pics are fuzzy. Cuttin some tall wood for around here. A red oak yesterday stretched out to 65 feet to the first crotch. Those pics a page or two back are from the current job. How tall do your oak get?


----------



## treeslayer2003

depends on the ground, we have so many soil types here. on really good oak ground, the best i have seen is around 80' of good wood to a 16" top.
in the poorer ground i have seen um make one decent 12' log. we also have so many different oaks, that comes into play as well. the really nice ones are getting scarce as most the good ground has been cleared.

+1 Joe, just so many people here lookin at me for income.


----------



## northmanlogging

From monday morning, the dougies you can barely see on the left are all I got done.


----------



## Samlock

North, why does all your heavy equipment look like toys in the pictures?


----------



## treeslayer2003

northmanlogging said:


> From monday morning, the dougies you can barely see on the left are all I got done.View attachment 366416


one, that road cut looks old.......
two, ya got no side panel on the little deere......

three, i dunno how you deal with them big sticks with a 440.........a 540 drives me nuts some times. of course the winch can do alot.


----------



## Metals406

bitzer said:


> Joe- I'd love to kill some timber down your way. Super busy as usual here though. Just looked at a good sized clear cut yesterday. Some decent white oak. I'm predicting the second coming of the big cut over. At least in a smaller scale. Corn and beans are worth pushin the land up for now. Great pictures as usual. I've been drinking a sugar/salt mix that does a fine job. One quart water, half a teaspoon salt, six teaspoons sugar. It does wonders. Doctor approved. Really. I'm guessing thats what the salty fish were about?
> 
> Mike- my phone's camera is scuffed up so all the pics are fuzzy. Cuttin some tall wood for around here. A red oak yesterday stretched out to 65 feet to the first crotch. Those pics a page or two back are from the current job. How tall do your oak get?


Sugar/salt concoction fir cramps?


----------



## coltont

I'm curious if any of you guys are running Oregon 72lgx84 chain. I had been buying but the 30 chain case and the last case I bought had about 15 chains in it that had teeth so hard you couldn't run a brand new file through them. Acted like the file was shot. Tried a new file and same thing again. Chains weren't boned on a rock or metal either. Needless to say I got the stihl dealer talked into coming way down on price and I'm running that with no problems. Was just wondering if anyone else had trouble with Oregon chain like that recently.


----------



## Metals406

Not unheard if I think. Send an email to Oregon.


----------



## coltont

I talked to the rep. They made it rite . It was just weird cause that's all I've ever ran and all the sudden it wasn't worth taking out of the box! That gets aggravating when your what seems like a zillion miles from the skidder or the truck and you can't file your damm chain!


----------



## northmanlogging

Samlock said:


> North, why does all your heavy equipment look like toys in the pictures?



Cause its all little, and most of em have fresh paint, which is kinda unheard of... doesn't help all the moisture in my smell phone giving everything a sort of soft focus.



treeslayer2003 said:


> one, that road cut looks old.......
> two, ya got no side panel on the little deere......
> 
> three, i dunno how you deal with them big sticks with a 440.........a 540 drives me nuts some times. of course the winch can do alot.



The side panel was off to remind me to check the oil... I furget sometimes, then remember at the end of the day... 

The winch helps but its not a fix all, mostly just paying attention to obstacles... and using a lot of twists and what not with the chokers. That and I usually only get 1-2 logs at a time, I have 3 chokers hanging but its rare that I have enough logs in one spot to use all three anyway.

Sharp turns can be, interesting...

I've pulled 4'+ hemlocks and 5' ceders with it, uphill...(27-37' long)

And lastly, yeah that road predates the current owners, when I started this job you could barely even tell there was a road there, continues up the back side of that ridge and onto the neighbors property, and then some, back side of that ridge still needs to be climbed though. Kinda fun dropping off the back side with a heavy turn and the front end just sorta hangs in the air for a little bit (you know like 6-7' in the air but your sitting level...) then she settles in and you can keep choogling...


----------



## treeslayer2003

lol, i have even left the hood up on the truck to remember.
ah, you are pulling shorter wood.........52' pine and 42' hardwood if they are big are hard to deal with. the pine im in now average 7000lb each according to my math. i wouldn't know what some of those biggest poplar last winter weighed.
it is different with a grapple, you can't drop and winch............but ya ain't gotta get off lol.

i come across an old stage road once in a while.........or thats what they call um.........it is interesting finding old features of past endevors.


----------



## coltont

We come across old roads quite a bit and utilize them if need be. It's awesome cause you can tell they knew rite where they needed to be. A lot of the stuff we cut lately has been on the steep and anything thst saves you save a few $$ on the steep helps. Cable skidding and dragging 150 feet of 5/8 cable uphill just plain sucks. But sometimes it's your only option to get the timber out. Easy route in from the neighbor but he's a real ........to deal with..


----------



## treeslayer2003

oh Colton, i went back to stihl chain because of what your talking about.........i filed um but they chunked out bad. if you shop around, you can find some really good deals on stihl loops.


----------



## northmanlogging

Yup, thats why I like to climb to the top and drag downhill... when ever possible, cause I'm Fat and 3/4 line is heavy...

I come across bits of cable all the time, occasionally broken chokers (less the bell) cat track parts, tons of stumps with spring board notches.

I also tend to get called in to "fix" what other loggers have left behind, usually I can use their skid roads, but not always, if they made a nasty mess and rutted the **** out of it, I pretty much have to start over.

By the way I hate cutting barked up rotten ass trees that should have been dealt with by the previous logger...


----------



## coltont

I like the worthless trees the last logger was scared to cut that were hanging over the main 3 phase power line and the power company trimmed the tree for the last 30 years instead if killing it. Most often a basswood or a cherry with red rot spilling out. Those are my favorite.


----------



## treeslayer2003

northy i went behind another logger a few years back........i could have put my 666 in one side of their ruts and hid it. its ridiculas what some get away with.


----------



## treeslayer2003

coltont said:


> I like the worthless trees the last logger was scared to cut that were hanging over the main 3 phase power line and the power company trimmed the tree for the last 30 years instead if killing it. Most often a basswood or a cherry with red rot spilling out. Those are my favorite.


ha ha, not on a power line but i find bigguns all over they were afraid to cut. they gone when i'm thru lol.


----------



## coltont

2007 cleaned out most of the farmer loggers around here. Made it really nice up until about last year when prices came back. Now everyone has an uncle of some sort that logs....


----------



## treeslayer2003

oh the big loggers here were dropping like flies..........luckily not many upncomers have come along. not that i begrudge any body.......just that we don't need any more great big cut the whole shore down types...........i seen plenty of them come n go.


----------



## northmanlogging

Yep, side leaners, anything 30' or less from a perceived property line, nearly every thing that might need a wedge...

On the plus side I'm getting fairly good at dumping trees near "high value targets"... still keeps me up nights thinking about the next ones...

Holding a lay is no big deal now, holding a lay and missing the pump house, barn and major highway... thats different


----------



## Metals406

Yup, everything is easier when there's nothing to hit.

Put something out there that I'm not supposed to hit, & all the sudden trees are magnetically drawn to it. LOL


----------



## Gologit

Metals406 said:


> Yup, everything is easier when there's nothing to hit.
> 
> Put something out there that I'm not supposed to hit, & all the sudden trees are magnetically drawn to it. LOL



That happens to you, too? I think that the only thing I _haven't_ hit with a tree is an _occupied_ dwelling and the water truck. Everything else on the hit list, including a brand new pickup, have been nailed at one time or another.
But, then again, over the course of 50 years of putting wood on the ground I think you're bound to hit something occasionally. Keeps you humble.


----------



## Metals406

Gologit said:


> That happens to you, too? I think that the only thing I _haven't_ hit with a tree is an _occupied_ dwelling and the water truck. Everything else on the hit list, including a brand new pickup, have been nailed at one time or another.
> But, then again, over the course of 50 years of putting wood on the ground I think you're bound to hit something occasionally. Keeps you humble.


I smacked a livestock gate a few weeks ago. If you would have told me beforehand, that a 1-inch square post on the uphill side hinge, would have pulled that tree up hill that far. . . I would have probably called you a liar. (Though I have seen less do more)

I was super pissed, it ruined a perfect day up to that point. The homeowners however, they didn't mind so much. . . I was cutting all the trees down for free -- I guess a gate was a small price to pay.


----------



## Cedarkerf

Took down a cedar missed the garage propane tank fence house deck and assorted marked plants and lawn features only to have a guy come in and tear all the marked plants and lawnstuff up getting the logs out


----------



## Metals406

Cedarkerf said:


> Took down a cedar missed the garage propane tank fence house deck and assorted marked plants and lawn features only to have a guy come in and tear all the marked plants and lawnstuff up getting the logs out


Hahaha, that would suck Brian!


----------



## bitzer

Metals406 said:


> Sugar/salt concoction fir cramps?


Na, just for good hydration. A few weeks ago my wife got super dehydrated on vacation. It was bad enough I had to take her to the hospital to get fluids. They did a follow up phone call a few days later and she told them she still felt crappy even though she was drinking enough water to pee every five minutes. They told her she was basically flushing her system at that point and she needed to replace her salts and sugars with a drink like Gatorade or the sugar/salt mix I mentioned. Apparently I've been flushing my system for years. That explained why I was so run down all the time. I thought there was something seriously wrong with me for a while. Now I drink a quart of the stuff on my way to the woods and quart after cutting with water in between and after. It works great.


----------



## treeslayer2003

wow, maybe thats whats wrong with me..............i been thinkin lymes even tho they say i don't have it. this hot week has got me tired..........


----------



## hammerlogging

Cedarkerf said:


> Took down a cedar missed the garage propane tank fence house deck and assorted marked plants and lawn features only to have a guy come in and tear all the marked plants and lawnstuff up getting the logs out


This is basically the same reason I stopped working with the loggers directly. I'd lay out a drag just so only to have them come in backwards, push some brush around, hook them, turn 90 degrees, it would drive me crazy. But, I have my job, they have theirs, and I'm going to let them do theirs. So now I say " here, wood is on the ground nice and clean, you figure it out" And everyone is happy, I cut more per day, and they log more per day.


----------



## bitzer

treeslayer2003 said:


> wow, maybe thats whats wrong with me..............i been thinkin lymes even tho they say i don't have it. this hot week has got me tired..........


Yeah its funny. I don't need to drink nearly as much water and after I'm done cutting its amazing how quickly I can feel the difference. It gives me a little kick to finish the day off in the skidder. That concoction has less sugar than the "aid" drinks and none of the acid. I also quit drinking coffee about 18 months ago (I was a 2 pot per day guy). Believe it or not it made me a more efficient faller. I'm sure there is a down side to all this, but its workin good for now. Where is that damn doctor that hangs around here to back any of this up?


----------



## treeslayer2003

now i ain't givin up my coffee, but i might try the salt/suger water. how do you mix it? not much salt i wouldn't think.


----------



## Gologit

I'll give that concoction a try. Still gotta have that first cup of coffee every morning though.


----------



## HuskStihl

treeslayer2003 said:


> wow, maybe thats whats wrong with me..............i been thinkin lymes even tho they say i don't have it. this hot week has got me tired..........


I was gonna suggest it was just old age, then remembered that you are young and handsome compared to me

This thread has been a great read recently. Thanks boys for all the great posts/pictures

Question I asked you boys a few years ago, but I'll ask again. About what percentage of trees you fall do exactly what you want them to? Currently I'm up to about 3% going right, 47% working out all right in a lucky sort of way, 35% doing the exact opposite of what I want, and 15% destroying something that I hold dear (sounds bad, but it's actually a huge improvement)


----------



## rwoods

treeslayer2003 said:


> now i ain't givin up my coffee, but i might try the salt/suger water. how do you mix it? not much salt i wouldn't think.



"One quart water, half a teaspoon salt, six teaspoons sugar. It does wonders. Doctor approved. Really." Bitzer

Ron


----------



## bitzer

HuskStihl said:


> I was gonna suggest it was just old age, then remembered that you are young and handsome compared to me
> 
> This thread has been a great read recently. Thanks boys for all the great posts/pictures
> 
> Question I asked you boys a few years ago, but I'll ask again. About what percentage of trees you fall do exactly what you want them to? Currently I'm up to about 3% going right, 47% working out all right in a lucky sort of way, 35% doing the exact opposite of what I want, and 15% destroying something that I hold dear (sounds bad, but it's actually a huge improvement)




Do you want the truth Jon?


----------



## HuskStihl

bitzer said:


> Do you want the truth Jon?


I'm not sure I can handle the truth

But I am curiousopcorn:


----------



## treeslayer2003

bitzer said:


> Do you want the truth Jon?


lol, you want to hurt his feelins or should i?


----------



## treeslayer2003

Gologit said:


> I'll give that concoction a try. Still gotta have that first cup of coffee every morning though.


you gonna give up the rest of the pot?


----------



## Gologit

treeslayer2003 said:


> you gonna give up the rest of the pot?


 I gave up pot many years ago.


----------



## Metals406

I had to give up coffee, fer now anyway. Started tearing my guts up.

Think I'm going to try English tea.

Bob's "wonder water" sounds like the ticket for next fire season.

Think I'll make little baggies ready to go, so I can add them on the fire line.

P.S. My tree percentage is 100%. . . Every one eventually hits the ground.


----------



## Metals406

treeslayer2003 said:


> you gonna give up the rest of the pot?


He does love his pot!! Cause of the glaucoma.


----------



## treeslayer2003

treeslayer2003 said:


> you gonna give up the rest of the pot?


the rest of the pot of coffee...................jeez guys lol.


----------



## treeslayer2003

HuskStihl said:


> I was gonna suggest it was just old age, then remembered that you are young and handsome compared to me
> 
> This thread has been a great read recently. Thanks boys for all the great posts/pictures
> 
> Question I asked you boys a few years ago, but I'll ask again. About what percentage of trees you fall do exactly what you want them to? Currently I'm up to about 3% going right, 47% working out all right in a lucky sort of way, 35% doing the exact opposite of what I want, and 15% destroying something that I hold dear (sounds bad, but it's actually a huge improvement)


ok Jon, honestly near 100% but..........i am not falling yard trees or hazard tees near power lines or the like. most all of my falling is in the open woods.
most of getting woods trees into a lay is reading the stand, i know before i ever start a saw what most of the stand wants to do and plan my lay according. the one or two od balls will need wedgeing as will trees near the end of my lay that would fall across boundry lines or waterways or what have you.
i will tell you a secrete.........most pine stands can be put into an easterly lay easily..........don't pull mah fallers card boys lol.


----------



## treeslayer2003

if its cooler this week Jon, i'll try to get ya some new pics.


----------



## HuskStihl

I figured pros only miss once in a while.


----------



## Metals406

HuskStihl said:


> I figured pros only miss once in a while.


Exactly! [emoji2]


----------



## treeslayer2003

HuskStihl said:


> I figured pros only miss once in a while.


i messed up on an easy large poplar in the spring.........cut the hinge half off, it fell 90 degrees into a stream...........it was that ported 660s fault lol 
a mistake i hate to admit but a mistake non the less............i did not make another since.


----------



## Metals406

I mess up all the time, but I have different levels of mess up.

The little ones you just keep going, making a mental note for next time.

The big ones, those usually leave a mark, & are luckily less frequent.


----------



## Gologit

HuskStihl said:


> Question I asked you boys a few years ago, but I'll ask again. About what percentage of trees you fall do exactly what you want them to? Currently I'm up to about 3% going right, 47% working out all right in a lucky sort of way, 35% doing the exact opposite of what I want, and 15% destroying something that I hold dear (sounds bad, but it's actually a huge improvement)



I'm still thinking about how to answer that question.


----------



## slowp

Two good answers are:

6.

Around a couple more weeks...


----------



## bitzer

Jon- Mike pretty much nailed it, with lay outs and how trees are going to fall. Typically you only have a tree or two to cut at a time. We have many and more room to do it in. This is kind of tough question to answer without sounding arrogant in some way. The only time I don't get a tree to do what I want is when I am asking way too much of the holding wood or the holding wood ends up being punky. I had a tree go 90 degrees from the lay back in June. That was the first time in I don't remember how long. It was a hard maple. Last tree of the day (in a hurry). Had a little cross wind and I cut the hinge up too tight before getting wedges beat in far enough. It was side heavy to where it eventually fell. I could have easily avoided it and it barely avoided my truck. It happens for me, but rarely. Like once a year kind of thing. I think there is a difference in what I want the tree to do and what it physically can do. Like do I get every tree to commit to the face when swinging some heavy side leaning sob up hill? No, but they usually fall close enough to where I need them. Do I hang trees up? Sure, but I can almost always fix that with the next tree, or just buck them if horizontal enough. Hanging trees in a select cut is super easy to do and not always a function of bad technique. When swinging a tree you may get some brushing of limbs that slows it down or the tree takes a bad bounce in the wrong direction. How about when you think you've laid your tree out perfect to save it out and at the last second it takes a bad roll off of some pulp tree and lands so the crotch splits the last couple of logs? I did what I was supposed to but other forces can be at work. As you can see there are a lot of gray areas to your question. I could go on. Ask Icepick my percentage. I laid out for him for two days while he bucked because he had a bum knee. Reading the stand, lean, and limb weight are the biggest things and you need to be able to do that within seconds if you want to make any money. Otherwise you're just standing around looking at the scenery.


----------



## northmanlogging

Probably about 1 in a 100 goes way wrong, and about 50% don't do exactly what I want, but close enough to not worry much about it, 30% I could drive nails with, the rest take more work then I like to think about to get them going more or less where I want them. Generaly speaking though I hit my lay withing 5-10 degrees ish, unless I decide that crossing the lay is the best thing for it.

But I do work around houses, powerlines, cars, roads... 

The most recent one to go funky was like usual a little pecker pole hemlock, that was limb locked with a big maple, wedged it over and every thing was going fine until it bound up in that maple branch, so I cut the hinge all the way off thinking it would roll out, maybe. It didn't it almost stood back up and then started slipping off towards the power lines (only about 20 feet away). Luckily the skidder wasn't to far away and I could quick like a bunny wrap a choker and pull it out, that and the other maple next to it caught it and kept it out of the lines... 

Seems the biggest issue I have lately is breakage, usually by misjudging the landscape, whacking a hill pretty hard or tossing the top off a drop off, the worst was a very nice cedar, hit the ground hard and detonated the best log in the middle. probably lost $1000 on that little stunt.


----------



## HuskStihl

Thanks guys. I was just curious. I don't consider it arrogance to have a high success rate and report it accurately. I also assume y'all don't obsess on "perfect" and are probably on to the next tree before the dust settled on the previous one. Being 80% perfect in the day job wouldn't fly either


----------



## northmanlogging

Not arrogant, just anyone that says they never have one go wrong is a ****ing liar...

And uh there Doc, I really hope you have better then 80% success at yer day job... at least better then 80% survival rate anyway.


----------



## treeslayer2003

couldn't like that post northy, it cost ya money..........yea, like bitzer said, a big oak with lots of big limbs can lead to breaking and costing grade logs like yer saying.
thats why in oak, some times its better to miss the lay in favor of floppin it down not on a crotch.


----------



## northmanlogging

ya know the craptastic thing is it went right where I wanted it, just couldn't handle the impact. Split lengthwise and cracked a bunch of times, like a tooth pick someone has been chewing on.


----------



## Twindad

treeslayer2003 said:


> a big oak with lots of big limbs can lead to breaking and costing grade logs like yer saying.
> thats why in oak, some times its better to miss the lay in favor of floppin it down not on a crotch.



Ya mean like this:


----------



## RandyMac




----------



## treeslayer2003

Twindad said:


> Ya mean like this:


oh man that'll make ya sick........prolly lost 500 bucks right there.
some times there is nuthin ya can do short of having a climber come top it out. makes me awful mad when it happens.


----------



## jwilly

Log buyer came to our job about 20 years ago and I was bucking the split logs into firewood. He said, "what are you doing, I'll buy those half logs." Not veneer but he paid well for the 1/2 logs.


----------



## treeslayer2003

white oak will still stave if its big.


----------



## Twindad

treeslayer2003 said:


> oh man that'll make ya sick........prolly lost 500 bucks right there.
> some times there is nuthin ya can do short of having a climber come top it out. makes me awful mad when it happens.


Yeah, that one hurt. Fortunately, that was the 3rd log and not the butt log. Heavy down hill lean, and a large, spreading crown made up of large diameter limbs-- Like you said, sometimes there's not much you can do.
( at least there's not much *I* can do)

Mills around here don't usually take the split logs. I guess maybe if they are big enough- or with a specific market like staves.


----------



## Plankton

Been real busy lately, working on a building site. only time I thought about pictures are a few cleanup/remainder trees last week.

Been in real nice pine 120-140 ft tall which is crazy for what I've seen in mass. 70-80 ft of log.


----------



## nbouley010

Last blow down tree clearing out a 2mile long trail to a radio tower.


----------



## Metals406

Is that oak?


----------



## nbouley010

Metals406 said:


> Is that oak?




Yup the whole trail was full of oaks 'bout that size. That was the only one that had the whole root mound still intact though.


----------



## TheJollyLogger

Jon, keep in mind what you're doing is more like residential tree work than logging. I've done both, and it's different. When it's just that onee tree, you can't always pick your lay, sometimes the lay picks you. I'm pretty decent wiith wedges, but sometimes they just won't cut it. You're doing fine. One of these days I'll get back down south and we'll drop a few, and hoist a few.


----------



## HuskStihl

Looking forward to it


----------



## coltont

does anyone else fall the wild goodies?


----------



## TheJollyLogger

What you got there?


----------



## coltont

Chicken mushrooms and ginseng


----------



## TheJollyLogger

Nice


----------



## coltont

Started this piece on Monday. Lots of nice white oak and hard maple


----------



## treeslayer2003

coltont said:


> View attachment 368710
> View attachment 368711
> does anyone else fall the wild goodies?


yeah, blueberries, strawberries, walnuts...........there is plenty i don't care for like jack in the pulpit [mountain taters]


----------



## coltont

They call those Indian turnip here.


----------



## Metals406

Never heard of Mountain Taters? Now I have to look them up.


----------



## treeslayer2003

Metals406 said:


> Never heard of Mountain Taters? Now I have to look them up.


gotta boil um, they bitter raw


----------



## bitzer

nbouley010 said:


> Yup the whole trail was full of oaks 'bout that size. That was the only one that had the whole root mound still intact though.


How come you offset your cuts? They going for sawlogs I hope? Looks like fun! Really. I like a challenge.


----------



## bitzer

coltont said:


> Started this piece on Monday. Lots of nice white oak and hard maple


How come you're using such a long bar on a little tree?  Seriously though what are those two things on the butt in the first picture? Nice lookin wood, thanks for sharing!


----------



## coltont

It's kinda like an s iron. They keep the log from checking and opening up.


----------



## bitzer

Plankton said:


> Been real busy lately, working on a building site. only time I thought about pictures are a few cleanup/remainder trees last week.
> 
> Been in real nice pine 120-140 ft tall which is crazy for what I've seen in mass. 70-80 ft of logs


Looks like fun Plankton! I'd love to lay into some tall pine. Never get to cut anything decent at the job. They don't grow this far south in the state (naturally anyway). So do you cut for a logging outfit full time?


----------



## bitzer

coltont said:


> It's kinda like an s iron. They keep the log from checking and opening up.


So you carry em with you and slam em on asap?


----------



## coltont

I keep some in the skidder just in case. Just depends on the time of the year........the wood will just open up.


----------



## bitzer

Oak? I guess I don't pay that close of attention as it isn't my wood. I've seen ash, hickory, some maple, a few others open up after cutting though.


----------



## coltont

That was a burr oak


----------



## treeslayer2003

bitzer said:


> Oak? I guess I don't pay that close of attention as it isn't my wood. I've seen ash, hickory, some maple, a few others open up after cutting though.


man white oak will open up here at some times of the year. turn a veneer into a stave.......

nice seein you around by the way, hope things are going well.


----------



## bitzer

treeslayer2003 said:


> man white oak will open up here at some times of the year. turn a veneer into a stave.......
> 
> nice seein you around by the way, hope things are going well.


That's interesting. Oak can sit on a landing for months up here and not move much. Yeah I've been good. Just finished up a job yesterday. Starting a 20 acre clear cut Monday. Mostly red/white oak, cherry. Should be fun!


----------



## treeslayer2003

yea, its worse in the hot summer........sap is up and it can get 100 here.

i am on a clear cut now, big pine........18 acres should do around 300,000ft counting the scrappy hard wood. i'll be here a while or untill it gets wet.
it is nice to not have to worry about leave trees, although there is alot of slash on the ground to deal with.

i can't seem to post pics now.........that sucs. was gonna tease ya with some big pine pics.......


----------



## Plankton

bitzer said:


> Looks like fun Plankton! I'd love to lay into some tall pine. Never get to cut anything decent at the job. They don't grow this far south in the state (naturally anyway). So do you cut for a logging outfit full time?



I love cutting big white pine comes off the stump so predictably and cuts like butter! I'm actually working on that building site full time. I got hired to cut the timber for the clearing and the boss offered me a job full time with them there and I took it. I get to cut lots of trees though, on the saw almost every day, clearing the driveway etc. we are milling all the lumber for the houses up there with a bandsaw mill too. Good change of pace. and I'm still in the woods every day.


----------



## bitzer

treeslayer2003 said:


> yea, its worse in the hot summer........sap is up and it can get 100 here.
> 
> i am on a clear cut now, big pine........18 acres should do around 300,000ft counting the scrappy hard wood. i'll be here a while or untill it gets wet.
> it is nice to not have to worry about leave trees, although there is alot of slash on the ground to deal with.
> 
> i can't seem to post pics now.........that sucs. was gonna tease ya with some big pine pics.......


It can get that hot here too although not for any extended period of time usually. Maybe has to do with how cold it gets here. Wood grows a little slower, denser. Idk. Or maybe I just haven't noticed though I look at the log ends plenty, pickin em up and tossin em off. Yeah post some pics if you can! I love how a nice big white pine stick looks in the woods. Might be my favorite tree. I like how a big ass red oak looks too though. Those dark bark trees seem so much more badass to me for some reason.


----------



## bitzer

Plankton said:


> I love cutting big white pine comes off the stump so predictably and cuts like butter! I'm actually working on that building site full time. I got hired to cut the timber for the clearing and the boss offered me a job full time with them there and I took it. I get to cut lots of trees though, on the saw almost every day, clearing the driveway etc. we are milling all the lumber for the houses up there with a bandsaw mill too. Good change of pace. and I'm still in the woods every day.


Good deal man! Nothin beats getting paid to be in the woods. I always like your pics. You've posted some nice eastern pine sticks on here.


----------



## treeslayer2003

pushing the upload file button does nothing...........

yellow pine here, forester said 85 year old avg..........some are 40" but i doubt any older really.


----------



## northmanlogging

had to see if it works...




they said take the Hemlock leave the ceder...

actually a few feet over the property line but both owners are on board so...


----------



## Twindad

Plankton said:


> I love cutting big white pine comes off the stump so predictably and cuts like butter!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep


----------



## Twindad

Let me try that again. Not sure how that pic ended up on plankton's quote.


----------



## bitzer

northmanlogging said:


> actually a few feet over the property line but both owners are on board so...


 Like "in writing" on board? Could be playing with fire there. People can get real funny all of a sudden. Nice work though.


----------



## bitzer

Twindad said:


> Let me try that again. Not sure how that pic ended up on plankton's quote.


What did ya get for length out of that one?


----------



## Twindad

bitzer said:


> What did ya get for length out of that one?



80'+ of logs and a couple of pulp sticks.


----------



## northmanlogging

bitzer said:


> Like "in writing" on board? Could be playing with fire there. People can get real funny all of a sudden. Nice work though.


Nah, taint no contract on this one... (dumb I know) other LO just wants his cut from the mill.

They plan on planting a bunch of walnut, and the neighbor is all for it and wants to help as much as possible, even suggested taking these and a few more.


----------



## treeslayer2003

does walnut grow well there? i'm thinking black walnut, maybe y'all got a different kind.......


----------



## northmanlogging

English, blacks will grow just not as well as some would like them to.

They plan on harvesting the nuts, and don't care so much about the wood right now. Perhaps by the time they retire plus a few years they might have enough to harvest a couple of them, I think they plan on planting like 30 or more. 

They are planting like 6 different varieties? Couldn't tell ya all of them I know english was one of em, and no blacks.


----------



## coltont

The white oak on this job is really tall


----------



## treeslayer2003

coltont said:


> View attachment 370581
> 
> The white oak on this job is really tall


three good logs and a sawlog.........i like them kinda trees


----------



## coltont

I believe it made a 23 and a 21


----------



## bitzer

A couple of pics from the current job. I started a clear cut on Monday. Cutting is pretty fun. Its a hell of lot safer than a selective cut. You really have to watch top placement though cuz it can be a real ***** digging pulp sticks out of the slash.

Heres a HARD forward leaning head leaner that had to be swung from the boundary back into the opening. I only had to bring it around 45 degrees or so, but it was leaning so far ahead I wasn't sure if the wood would hold to the stump. It did. Usually I dutch from the face first until I can't anymore and then start on my Dutchman side in the back and ream and ream and ream to the pull side. It will sit down tighter than **** if you're not carful and mindful of your face. If you **** it up and don't cut all the wood through to the face it will chair like lightning. Also the little red circle is the only plug I lost out of that butt. It measured about 4" x 4" x 4". I made a 10' 6" out of that first log so they should still be able to make some 10 foot boards there. I did not bust the **** out of the butt on the pull side of the stump either. It all sawed off clean except for that little plug. I'm sure some of you guys look at these hard pulled trees and you figure I chewed the **** out of the butt, and yeah it does happen, but more often not. Its all about that face and timing. Sorry for the weird color, it was full sun and the camera is a cheapo.





These guys had a week to get their stands out. This was the second one. The first one stayed tight on the tree. This one got thumped a little harder and bounced. Both were fine though. I wasn't going to leave two damn trees to come back for. That and they were both in the lead.




I'm getting a new phone tomorrow. My old one totally craped out so I should be snappin more pics in the near future. The timber on this job is about average. Mostly red and white oak. Some cherry. Not real tall. Decent production wood though. 18-30 inches on the stump kind of stuff.


----------



## treeslayer2003

yep, i see what you did there..........and your right, some may think its a mistake. truth is oak reacts different than other woods so ya got to do it different some times. nice turn. and i get ya on tearing out the stump, but that is acceptible to me although white oak will normally screw itself before that happens, red will do it.


----------



## bitzer

Some whites will hang on cleanly and some will bust all to hell. The biggest thing aside from the cuts is proximity to a root. Thats what I used here to pull. It pulled the root out of the ground instead of damaging the butt log. If there is no root you can use chances are the butt will be affected. I know you've got this Mike just spelling it out for others. I've been playing with swing cuts for 7 or 8 years now in different species. Sometimes they still surprise me. I've figured out what I can get away with. Well most of the time.


----------



## treeslayer2003

lol yep...........you been in it longer than that? wait yer younger than i............i forgot that lol yer doin a pretty dam good job for a guy your age.........but you will slow down at some point.


----------



## Keen

Nice pics bitz. I have had mixed results with swinging red oak. Most will go nicely but I will rip into the log on some. I chaired one over the winter, my bar tip got to far into the Dutchman side and pinched up. It let out a pop after a few seconds and chaired about 30ft up. The saw survived so I was happy about that. Ash is one of my favorites to swing. Seems it always pulls from the stump. The pics are from a few that were leaning over fences. I have been cutting mainly aspen for the last couple months. Some stands with 50+ cord per acre. Can't beat it for production wood. The mill I was cutting for over the fall and winter wanted me to drive farther and farther to jobs sites. Back to buying my own timber and working close to home.


----------



## treeslayer2003

i'll add just a little.......heavy topped oak does not wedge well like pine or poplar.........what you did

there was the way to get it.....other wise leave it and admit defeat. wich i hate to do, but will on rare occasions.

this was to bitzers post


----------



## treeslayer2003

hi keen. you guys ash is much different..........couldn't get ours to do that, it would chair like you said the oak did to ya. the big heart looks odd to me, ours has none.


----------



## coltont

Ash that's been killed by the eab is such a prick to cut. Gets punky almost rite away end doesn't listen at all


----------



## Metals406

It's fun to listen to you guys talk'n about cut'n hardwood (and seeing pics and vids).

Even if I never get to cut very much, I'll have some base knowledge to work with.


----------



## coltont

Just remember you can only make it do so much. And it'll just plain explode


----------



## Keen

Most of ours have the big heart like that, but we do get into some with small hearts.. It is prone to chairing here also. Its not a stringing wood so I think that helps it split down into the stump when swinging them. Most of our ash is eab killed or being killed now so the tops are brittle, really gotta watch wedging on them.


----------



## northmanlogging

A little off base from the rest of ya, this ones from this morning, not sure if this should go in descriptive or not...
Any way, back leaning cedar, 5' behind where the pic was taken was the crummy, above that power lines.

See if ya's can count the wedges


----------



## coltont

16


----------



## northmanlogging

coltont said:


> 16



CORRECT you win....

























































NOTHING!!!!!


----------



## HuskStihl

Thanks guys! Talking swing techniques is my internet pornography. (Sad, but true)
I'll add, that if I were a professional Sweet Gum faller, I'd never miss. That stuff will turn a mile without breaking.


----------



## HuskStihl

Thanks again Bitz, great explanation of turning from the face and back together, with the root pulling. Great stuff!


----------



## coltont

Seems like some times some hardwoods week listen allot better than others.


----------



## twochains

I been quiet for a while...can't miss an opportunity to post a couple swing vids. LOL! Both were 90* swings, one Red Oak and one Gum. Thanks!


----------



## RandyMac




----------



## treeslayer2003

Jon, you can bust a gum.........it is possible. just sayin, don't get to complacent out there.


----------



## treeslayer2003

twochains said:


> I been quiet for a while...can't miss an opportunity to post a couple swing vids. LOL! Both were 90* swings, one Red Oak and one Gum. Thanks!



this guy is good at swing cuts........barely ever wedges...........i used to do the same.


----------



## treeslayer2003

northmanlogging said:


> A little off base from the rest of ya, this ones from this morning, not sure if this should go in descriptive or not...
> Any way, back leaning cedar, 5' behind where the pic was taken was the crummy, above that power lines.
> 
> See if ya's can count the wedges
> View attachment 370883


close up of the jack


----------



## northmanlogging

treeslayer2003 said:


> close up of the jack



husky 20 ton from Slowes or Home gyppo? Got a pair of em for like $175, heavier than a Silvey and a bit taller, but can't beat the price.

Bit of schedule 80 pipe that fits around the top of the jack welded to some 3/8 plate, so far so good, plates could have a tad bigger foot print, its what I had laying around. And I wish the tops where aluminium to save chains, but as it is just be careful.


----------



## treeslayer2003

did you put any spikes or rough texture on top n bottom


----------



## HuskStihl

Clinton! Good to see you mang! That sweet gum looked mighty itchy!
Thanks Mike, I am scared in the woods and often bite off more than I can chew, but take nothing for granted! I might actually have some falling business coming up (finally)


----------



## bnmc98

northmanlogging said:


> A little off base from the rest of ya, this ones from this morning, not sure if this should go in descriptive or not...
> Any way, back leaning cedar, 5' behind where the pic was taken was the crummy, above that power lines.
> 
> See if ya's can count the wedges
> View attachment 370883



Holy Cow! That looks like cut one tree then..... LUNCH!


----------



## treeslayer2003

yea, at least a bottle of water lol


----------



## northmanlogging

treeslayer2003 said:


> did you put any spikes or rough texture on top n bottom


No not really, torch cut the top plate and never ground the slag, usually when the jack is needed is sinks into the wood a fair bit, creating its own traction.

If you look the Silveys they have some texture but its really just feeding fast on a lathe, not a whole lot different then cold rolled steel would give. And the bottom of the jack is cast Iron.



bnmc98 said:


> Holy Cow! That looks like cut one tree then..... LUNCH!



actually it was done right about noon... then the climber dude climbed the next one and I mostly got to sit around for a few minutes.

Did I mention this is only a 1/4 acre clear cut with houses and kids on bikes surrounding us?


----------



## coltont

Man this was just a little to much. But the ole girl brought her out


----------



## Metals406

Yeah, that's a turn!


----------



## treeslayer2003

i can't barely see it, 540?


----------



## coltont

Yes an e model


----------



## 1270d

coltont said:


> Yes an e model


if you'd like to move up to a 648 let me know.


----------



## treeslayer2003

wish i had got a 640.........and a bigger loader.........and and...........a pot full a money be good as well lol.


----------



## coltont

Man if it didn't have that 8 in it if be all for it. To many mountains here.


----------



## rwoods

Clint, good to hear from you. I guess swinging those trees 90* keeps the copperheads confused. Be safe, my friend. Ron


----------



## 1270d

well if any of you hear of someone looking for a grapple, I can pm some details. No more tree length for us, just CTL and saws now. grapple and one loader with a pull through are the only things left.


----------



## coltont

working at setting up a nice trip.


----------



## Nate66n1

coltont said:


> View attachment 371166
> working at setting up a nice trip.


Do you run across many snakes there?


----------



## coltont

There around but we almost never see any


----------



## coltont

away they go


----------



## Metals406

Colton, you should give us some timber falling videos too, you know, cause we live vicariously through others.


----------



## coltont

I don't know how to our I would!


----------



## Metals406

coltont said:


> I don't know how to our I would!


Google that chit! lol


----------



## treeslayer2003

coltont said:


> I don't know how to our I would!


+1..........and im so busy during the day...........no help, just me.

Colton is that a contract truck? i wish i didn't have to fool with a truck......its an awfull expence...


----------



## coltont

The dude bought the truck off is and hauls exclusively for us. Works out really well


----------



## coltont

Used to have the mill haul for us but being at there convenience really sucks.


----------



## treeslayer2003

looks like its dry there too.........i wonder how much longer this dry weather will last.....


----------



## coltont

Dammed dust bowl in the landing. Makes it s real pain. But I have to say it's better than mud


----------



## treeslayer2003

yea, muds comin........it always comes some time


----------



## coltont

There were days towards the end of last winter that I needed much boots in the landing it was that deep. Only spot it could be put on the mountain and it all drained rite to the landing. Made it not ideal conditions but it had to work so we made it work


----------



## northmanlogging

from this afternoon. A bit of fun.


----------



## treeslayer2003

pretty work brother north..........that stick like ta got ya. are those triple taper? i never had no luck stacking them. i see you have the light bar, do you think its any floppier than solid?


----------



## northmanlogging

Nah just red heads, Keep a 8" double on hand for when I need to "fix" a back leaner... If ya need to stack em and they keep poppin out on ya put a pinch of dirt between the wedges, and a little more for the log and the stump, works most of the time.

I'm dig'n the stihl light bars, expensive but worth the money, they are a little bit bendier then a solid bar but not as bad as a solid Oregon, or worst an Oregon light bar.

The one I made was all right but its in the scrap pile now... just to freck'n old... It was floppier than an Oregon solid, but not as bad as the Oregon light. It got worse after the glue came apart... couldn't even keep a chain on it.


----------



## Metals406

Nice fir dump'n North! :0)


----------



## Samlock

Northie, I like how you gave the last fir a push while it was going.

It's a pity one can't score them red heads up here.


----------



## treeslayer2003

ah, i thought they were the TT wedges.........when i try to stack those its ok till the thick parts come together, then ya just can't drive um. i like um but i should keep a couple regulars for stacking. pm inbound northy.


----------



## Trx250r180

Nice vid NM ,the chips look different flying off the chain in a video than they do behind the handlebars huh


----------



## Metals406

Samlock said:


> Northie, I like how you gave the last fir a push while it was going.
> 
> It's a pity one can't score them red heads up here.


No reason why one of us can't buy some and ship them to ya. Kinda like the sticker thing. [emoji2]


----------



## Samlock

Aww, Nate and John, you're taking so good care of me. Weep. However, there's no reason why I can't call Madsen's or fill an order to Bailey's. Wedges are a bit too cheap, compared to the volume, to ship alone over here, though. I'll get them on the side next time I need to order something from the US.

Thank you for the thought.


----------



## HuskStihl

I am in awe Northman. You started those big, heavy saws all by yourself! Seriously tho, thanks for the video, and good job staying on u'r feet!


----------



## steve easy

northmanlogging said:


> from this afternoon. A bit of fun.



Nice vid, couple of Questions...because i know nothing and im sure there will be some out there that will remind me. Why shave a bit off before the backcut? and where do you get the wedge pouch/belt set up from?


----------



## Trx250r180

steve easy said:


> Nice vid, couple of Questions...because i know nothing and im sure there will be some out there that will remind me. Why shave a bit off before the backcut? and where do you get the wedge pouch/belt set up from?


I am guessing so his bar will fit through in one cut ,36 inch tree with a 32 inch bar for example ,the saw shops here have the wedge pouches on the shelves


----------



## treeslayer2003

i figured he wanted to get rid of that big flaky bark...........i do it on big old pine........dogs will slip cuz that big bark comes off.


----------



## northmanlogging

Bark shaving is so the wedges are working on wood rather than bark, doug's have fairly thick bark, and if you only have a wedge in the bark it will just sit down hard and then your in for a real mess. Most of the time I just set a wedge in there out of habit, these tall trees are harder to read than they look, and a little puff of breeze and they change their lean, once they sit back... it can be a real chore to get them back where you want them.

Wedge pouch is available in any decent saw shop around here, if not baileys/madsens both carry them.

The belt is just a GI pistol belt and some old GI Y back spenders, add a vietnam era mag pouch for a first aid kit and there ya have it. eventually I'll but some leather or felt on the right shoulder to maybe cut down on the tearing up of my shirts... but they wear out quick anyway...

A regular found it at the hardware store tool belt is probably better than a GI pistol belt, but surplus is cheap.


----------



## northmanlogging

HuskStihl said:


> I am in awe Northman. You started those big, heavy saws all by yourself! Seriously tho, thanks for the video, and good job staying on u'r feet!



I had somebody warm them up first to make it look like I'm a real man...

Maybe you can get yer war dept to start em for ya?


Or you could buy a stihl...


----------



## HuskStihl

I figured it was to get rid of the bark for better wedging. I'll bet TS Mike was correct, tho

Edit: a million posts magically appeared while I was typing


----------



## HuskStihl

northmanlogging said:


> I had somebody warm them up first to make it look like I'm a real man...
> 
> Maybe you can get yer war dept to start em for ya?
> 
> 
> Or you could buy a stihl...


"She who must be obeyed" will help when she's around. I can't afford a Stihl. Too much expensive metal on them


----------



## madhatte

Cody (Greystoke) showed me a trick at the Montanny GTG a couple of years back that I like quite a bit. When you palm a wedge in there habitually, palm in a second one for good measure, but just one corner, and let it hang loose. If the tree sits back, the wedge will jump up even with the one palmed in, and when the tree goes over, it will fall out. The wedge that you intend to whack won't be affected at all. It doesn't take any more effort to do this and gives you more feedback in case you aren't looking up for some reason.


----------



## Metals406

madhatte said:


> Cody (Greystoke) showed me a trick at the Montanny GTG a couple of years back that I like quite a bit. When you palm a wedge in there habitually, palm in a second one for good measure, but just one corner, and let it hang loose. If the tree sits back, the wedge will jump up even with the one palmed in, and when the tree goes over, it will fall out. The wedge that you intend to whack won't be affected at all. It doesn't take any more effort to do this and gives you more feedback in case you aren't looking up for some reason.


Yup, his 'needle gauge'; it works perty dern good!


----------



## steve easy

northmanlogging said:


> Bark shaving is so the wedges are working on wood rather than bark, doug's have fairly thick bark, and if you only have a wedge in the bark it will just sit down hard and then your in for a real mess. Most of the time I just set a wedge in there out of habit, these tall trees are harder to read than they look, and a little puff of breeze and they change their lean, once they sit back... it can be a real chore to get them back where you want them.
> 
> Wedge pouch is available in any decent saw shop around here, if not baileys/madsens both carry them.
> 
> The belt is just a GI pistol belt and some old GI Y back spenders, add a vietnam era mag pouch for a first aid kit and there ya have it. eventually I'll but some leather or felt on the right shoulder to maybe cut down on the tearing up of my shirts... but they wear out quick anyway...
> 
> A regular found it at the hardware store tool belt is probably better than a GI pistol belt, but surplus is cheap.


 
Oh yep, makes sense now, thanks. Used to be a surplus store in every town, lucky to find one anywhere theese days. None of the saw shops good or bad have anything close like that, just belts that fall down every time you move.


----------



## northmanlogging

Get some braces/spenders/suspenders and not the kind that work on socks...

Belts are for old men, suits, and hippies... 

Should be able to find something in the carpenter type tool bags that you can make work.


----------



## Cfaller

This is the best wedge pouch I've found. It is made by Perma-Pouch out of Canada.


----------



## KiwiBro

G'Day Steve,

Just cut a 2L milk bottle in half and then two slits down the side to thread your chaps belt through. Or the thinner 1 or 1.5L canola oil bottles - can thread the handle instead of needing to cut slits.

Off topic (sorry fellas), but regarding that log trailer/log arch combo we were discussing a while back, sorry but I've looked and can't find the designs on my computer anymore. I spent a whole weekend coming up with that and now can't bloody find the drawings. Will scribble summit on paper, take a photo and email you.


----------



## steve easy

Thanks Bro. Have not worn chaps for years, mitt came off the saw around the same time. Closest thing to Northmans set up i can find off the shelf is a tactical rig, got the shoulder straps to handle the weight and a heap of pockets/pouches for all the stuff that osh wants you to carry $45 on trade me.


----------



## KiwiBro

steve easy said:


> Thanks Bro. Have not worn chaps for years, mitt came off the saw around the same time. Closest thing to Northmans set up i can find off the shelf is a tactical rig, got the shoulder straps to handle the weight and a heap of pockets/pouches for all the stuff that osh wants you to carry $45 on trade me.


In case OSH are watching, you wear chaps when slabbing, when cutting down trees and, because you are super-conscientious, you wear 'em when milling too. Like we all do. 

I've a sister coming in from BC in January if it helps any. I suspect a friendly dealer of T$umura bars up that way might make a few extra sales about that time too.


----------



## steve easy

Trying to play by their rules, getting audited by osh to find out exactly how little i know.


----------



## coltont

going to kill these next week. Have 26 acres of it to kill!


----------



## Metals406

coltont said:


> View attachment 372900
> View attachment 372901
> View attachment 372902
> going to kill these next week. Have 26 acres of it to kill!


We'll, now you by god HAVE to take a video! :0)


----------



## coltont

I'm sure we will take several! I'll get them up on here asap


----------



## treeslayer2003

coltont said:


> View attachment 372900
> View attachment 372901
> View attachment 372902
> going to kill these next week. Have 26 acres of it to kill!


nice Colton! i am jelous lol.


----------



## 1270d

that is some mighty fine hardwood!


----------



## coltont

They can never grow in such a place that you can just cut them down.


----------



## coltont




----------



## mdavlee

Big oak falling:


----------



## mdavlee

I put the face in for Keith and he tipped it. Little rusty lining up the face with a 36". I threw the chain on the 395 cleaning the face out. I think it was 40" across it.


----------



## coltont

. That's the only way I know how to put videos up on here. That was from a sale earlier this year. It had to swing to the right pretty hard to not land in the drink.


----------



## coltont




----------



## coltont

. Highly valuable black walnut tree.


----------



## bitzer

Colton, you've got to get those saws hopped up man! You could be cutting so much more per day. I don't know if your daywagin or volume or what, but you're missing out big time. I notice you also cut the same wood twice a lot. Not trying to be a **** I just don't like seeing guys waste their time. Things like looking in the brush for an axe, bar wrench, sharpening chains in the woods all add up pretty quick. Those things don't make money. I'm not directing that all at you, just what I've seen in general over the years on here.


----------



## Metals406

Yeah, & look up more. ;0)


----------



## coltont

If I got paid by production I could agree with all that you say. But I'm hourly. I've cut for this guy for 7 years and its been working alright.


----------



## coltont

There's two of us on this crew . We do everything by hand and do and average if two loads a day. It works for us.


----------



## bitzer

I get it man, as long as the boss is happy. It drives me nuts when I know I could be more effcient. Its very easy to become stagnant in production. A guy who ran the skidder for me for a month said thats its like I'm always trying to beat myself. Like I'm in competition with myself. I have a bar I try to raise every day. Sometimes I do sometimes I don't. I work alone though so I kind of need that to keep a good pace. I typically cut 4-5mbf plus 4-5 cords every morning (bucking in the woods in 4-5 hours). Then I pick it up in the afternoon. Big timber add another thou or so. Sometimes I out cut what I can pick up with the skidder in the same period of time (4-5). At the end of the day as long as a guy is making money and everyone is happy and safe, thats the main thing.


----------



## HuskStihl

bitzer said:


> I get it man, as long as the boss is happy. It drives me nuts when I know I could be more effcient. Its very easy to become stagnant in production. A guy who ran the skidder for me for a month said thats its like I'm always trying to beat myself. Like I'm in competition with myself. I have a bar I try to raise every day. Sometimes I do sometimes I don't. I work alone though so I kind of need that to keep a good pace. I typically cut 4-5mbf plus 4-5 cords every morning (bucking in the woods in 4-5 hours). Then I pick it up in the afternoon. Big timber add another thou or so. Sometimes I out cut what I can pick up with the skidder in the same period of time (4-5). At the end of the day as long as a guy is making money and everyone is happy and safe, thats the main thing.





coltont said:


> If I got paid by production I could agree with all that you say. But I'm hourly. I've cut for this guy for 7 years and its been working alright.



Colton, one thing you gotta understand is that Bitz has something like 9 kids. He _starts _the day 3mbf behind the 8-ball, and has to catch up from there

Seriously tho, you should check out some of his videos. It doesn't look rushed, but the dude is definitely not ****ing around. If Handsome Mike would ever get around to putting a video up, I'd bet it would look similar, just more handsome.


----------



## Metals406

coltont said:


> If I got paid by production I could agree with all that you say. But I'm hourly. I've cut for this guy for 7 years and its been working alright.


Does he ever tell you to look up more? [emoji14] 

Seriously though, watch yer videos, there's danger up there bro -- ya gotta look up to see it coming! 

[emoji33]


----------



## treeslayer2003

look up...............yes..........i have to do it before i start, i can't while at the stump..........neck to stiff and efed up. i will say it is easier with a wrap and the saw tuned over cutting a higher stump.
don't any body else here have the neck problem?


----------



## treeslayer2003

HuskStihl said:


> Colton, one thing you gotta understand is that Bitz has something like 9 kids. He _starts _the day 3mbf behind the 8-ball, and has to catch up from there
> 
> Seriously tho, you should check out some of his videos. It doesn't look rushed, but the dude is definitely not ****ing around. If Handsome Mike would ever get around to putting a video up, I'd bet it would look similar, just more handsome.


thanks Jon but im not fast like bitzer or Clint.......well not any more lol. but i don't work the same way either.........my normal day has me falling for an hour or two then i'm on and off the skidder, topping, loading, wrenching, dealing with land owners......and foresters...........falling is a vacation for me.


----------



## HuskStihl

treeslayer2003 said:


> don't any body else here have the neck problem?


It's hard to tell if I do, cause the rest of the body is such a mess


----------



## 1270d

bitzer said:


> I get it man, as long as the boss is happy. *It drives me nuts when I know I could be more effcient. Its very easy to become stagnant in production. A guy who ran the skidder for me for a month said thats its like I'm always trying to beat myself. Like I'm in competition with myself. I have a bar I try to raise every day. Sometimes I do sometimes I don't. *



I have always tried to provide this level of performance no matter who or where I work. I hate sandbaggers


----------



## HuskStihl

Me too. I'm just a tenderfoot landowner, but I'm frequently mistaken for a hired hand or handyman, 'cause I'll bust my ass all day in the Texas heat when I'm working the land. (Never, ever, ever mistaken for a pro faller. Prolly the littered fence and shed debris that gives my amateur status away)


----------



## treeslayer2003

HuskStihl said:


> It's hard to tell if I do, cause the rest of the body is such a mess


why is your body a mess? something tells me you weren't always where you are now...........


----------



## HuskStihl

Nothing honorable. Just bad hips, back and shoulders from being an undersized D-man in ice hockey


----------



## Trx250r180

It is from packing that sweedish saw around


----------



## northmanlogging

treeslayer2003 said:


> look up...............yes..........i have to do it before i start, i can't while at the stump..........neck to stiff and efed up. i will say it is easier with a wrap and the saw tuned over cutting a higher stump.
> don't any body else here have the neck problem?



Neck is one of the few bits of me not broken and sewn back together... wrong...

But I've never been real flexible, and my shoulders pretty much start where my jaw ends, so yeah I look up when I start and try to when the tree starts to go, but mostly I just run and hide.

Taking a knee helps, but not much.


----------



## bitzer

HuskStihl said:


> Colton, one thing you gotta understand is that Bitz has something like 9 kids. He _starts _the day 3mbf behind the 8-ball, and has to catch up from there.



Thats it Jon! You figured it out! The funny thing is its really not that far from the truth. My wife doesn't work either.

I'm day five on some BAD stomach bug. Slept in every day this week. Have to keep a roll of tp nearby. Heading to the woods now. Gotta put wood on the landing every day. Even if its a little.


----------



## treeslayer2003

carefull bitz, you ain't 100%..................


----------



## bitzer

treeslayer2003 said:


> carefull bitz, you ain't 100%..................


No sir I ain't! No ones guna make money for me though. Thanks for the thought. I do slow it down a bit when I'm in rough shape. I just take more time for thought and I try to be happy with the wood I put on the landing. All I can eat is breads and crackers otherwise it feels like something is trying to claw its way out. Donettos and cheez-its seem to stick ok.


----------



## Gologit

bitzer said:


> No sir I ain't! No ones guna make money for me though. Thanks for the thought. I do slow it down a bit when I'm in rough shape. I just take more time for thought and I try to be happy with the wood I put on the landing. All I can eat is breads and crackers otherwise it feels like something is trying to claw its way out. Donettos and cheez-its seem to stick ok.




Working sick is no fun but sometimes you just have to do it. Don't forget to stay hydrated.


----------



## treeslayer2003

i can go till i get a fever, then im down for the count........


----------



## northmanlogging

If I hurl I go home... otherwise I've always toughed it out, miserable at work, or miserable at home, at work I'm at least getting paid. And to Hel with the other jokers can't cover their mouths when coughing anyway, or wash their hands...

Did I mention I'm getting really sick of being a machinist and am really starting to talk myself into logging full time...


----------



## Gologit

northmanlogging said:


> Did I mention I'm getting really sick of being a machinist and am really starting to talk myself into logging full time...




Not in those exact words but we kinda got that impression.


----------



## treeslayer2003

well............i can't very well try n talk you out of that.........you know the deal. good luck to you sir.


----------



## northmanlogging

Made a promise to the War Dept I'd have X amount in biz savings before pulling the plug on stability...


----------



## Gologit

northmanlogging said:


> Made a promise to the War Dept I'd have X amount in biz savings before pulling the plug on stability...




Good idea.


----------



## chucker

northmanlogging said:


> Made a promise to the War Dept I'd have X amount in biz savings before pulling the plug on stability...


? what is stability...? more like IN-stability for a norm to the usual.....


----------



## RandyMac

instability?


----------



## bitzer

I think I may have beaten this ****er. . . Can't be too optimistic yet though. Always wary. 

North- you could be a logger that does machining on the side. Just make sure you get paid for what you're doing. Anything that could crush something valuable to someone else you should be gettin an extra kick for even if its a little. Cutting around buildings is a bonus to them, not to you and your pay should reflect that. If they want arb work done they can pay an arb to do it. They will pay you a little extra when you put it that way, every time. Otherwise I'd walk. Theres lots of timber out there free of houses and such.


----------



## northmanlogging

Yup, Usually why I get the jobs I do is I'm not afraid of close quarters, bid em high for the ones that worry me more. Takes a little more time to make em safe but that's OK.

Only problem with this close work is they usually want full cleanup, and then they don't want to pay for full cleanup... As if the price of one or two loads will cover the 4-5 days of cleanup...

Its a nice change every now and a again to find some piece away from buildings where I can just dump em and go.


----------



## northmanlogging

As far as machining on the side... There's been some talk of me going on weekends, 3 days a week 12 hr days... would give me 4 days a week in the woods, but I'd still be working with a bunch of prima dona's that assume they know everything... and want to make sure that your inferior in every way, even if it takes back stabbing or sabotage.

Not to mention machining has gotten boring over the last few years, seen and done it all, just numbers now, crunch the math, hit the green button walk away.

Try that with logging and yer bound to get killed.


----------



## Gologit

RandyMac said:


> instability?



Isn't that a job requirement? Kinda like having a size 18 neck and a size 3 hat?


----------



## HuskStihl

Gologit said:


> Isn't that a job requirement? Kinda like having a size 18 neck and a size 3 hat?


Northman had an 18" neck in the sixth grade



northmanlogging said:


> but I'd still be working with a bunch of prima dona's that assume they know everything...



Nothing wrong with being a know-it-all Prima Donna. Or is there? Maybe I should look into that


----------



## RandyMac

I miss the lead in gasoline


----------



## Samlock

RandyMac said:


> I miss the lead in gasoline



Because it causes declines in mental functioning?


----------



## RandyMac

It absorbs radioactive particles in the blood.


----------



## Samlock

I guess that's good too.


----------



## coltont

Not really a cutting picture but I did kill it


----------



## northmanlogging

HuskStihl said:


> Northman had an 18" neck in the sixth grade
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing wrong with being a know-it-all Prima Donna. Or is there? Maybe I should look into that




Its 20" now... under the beard and through the hair... the skull is quite thick so I take a size 8 hat...


----------



## Metals406

Haywire said:


> They were burning slash up on the hill today. Got up on the roof to take a few shots. Plane flew buy while I was up there. Give it another week and those Larch will be bare.
> 
> View attachment 376856
> View attachment 376857
> View attachment 376858


They lit off piles all over the valley.


----------



## Samlock

What's the burning for? Fuel reduction? Insect prevention? How do they pile the slash up out there on the hillside?


----------



## Metals406

Samlock said:


> What's the burning for? Fuel reduction? Insect prevention? How do they pile the slash up out there on the hillside?


http://dnrc.mt.gov/forestry/Assistance/Stewardship/slashred.asp

Slash piles are made on or near the landings where the logs are processed.

It's piled via stroke delimber, dangle head, loader, etc.


----------



## northmanlogging

Fuel reduction is a big part of it... and the pine beetle is horrible...

Sometimes they get an excavator or a cat to pile it on not so steep hills.


----------



## Samlock

I see. Cleaning up the landing sites... Up here it's ruled by the law, that the timber must be hauled out of the woods before the beetle copulating period.


----------



## bnmc98

One thing we have done on a steep hillside for slash is leave a high cut stumps along the bottom to keep it from rolling down the hill, say about 5-6ft high.


----------



## slowp

On the sparser vegetated eastside, we used to do what was called Jackpot Burning. We'd wander about in a recently logged unit and light the concentrations of limbs on fire, and the landing piles. That was done for fuels reduction after logging and paid for by money from the timber sale.


----------



## paccity

a bout an acre of wood on this pile. pulp prices must have been down to the point of not hauling it out. went back this year and it was burnt . must have been a bigun. lotts of descent logs in that pile.


----------



## Metals406

paccity said:


> View attachment 377054
> a bout an acre of wood on this pile. pulp prices must have been down to the point of not hauling it out. went back this year and it was burnt . must have been a bigun. lotts of descent logs in that pile.


A firewooders dream pile right there!


----------



## paccity

Metals406 said:


> A firewooders dream pile right there!


weyco. aint happening. and its 20+ miles out from the gate. and about a 3 mile pull up out of the canyon . lot's of fuel consumed to get it . there's lot's of it like this . and plenty close in . anyone around here that can't find fw needs to open there eye's and get off the couch. lol.


----------



## OlympicYJ

Pac you're right. There were probably easier piles to get too that were closer. Up on the Peninsula Hermann Bros. do the slash thing. They are out of Port Angeles and are hauling the chips to Port Townsend Paper. Pretty long haul the closer they got to Forks. Five years ago they sat up a portable trailer tipper in Rayoniers old yard by the office in Forks. They were using their 6X6 T800s with custom steerable Western Chip trailers. The haul from Forks cost them too much in fuel to run the 6x6s all the way to Port Townsend so they reloaded into 50 footers. Let them pull wood from farther south off more difficult to get to landings. Hogfuel is a fickle beast. I've tallied multiple slash piles that size on single units. I've seen some piles solely made of pecker pole cedar that couldn't be sold.

Weyco anymore doesn't leave a damn thing on their landings. Usually stuff you wouldn't even waste your time with for firewood; at least I wouldn't waste my time.


----------



## OlympicYJ

This is true. Although I have my own blowdown to clean up lol


----------



## paccity

can burn more myself , give away so much wood from res job's to the juvenile detention program. they just follow us around and clean up. there is so much wood around here for the picking that the firewooders sell to folk that can't or don't want to get it themselves. hell i know land owners that will give oak away you just have to go and thin it . hell id do fire wood if i was not so lazy.lol.


----------



## Metals406

paccity said:


> can burn more myself , give away so much wood from res job's to the juvenile detention program. they just follow us around and clean up. there is so much wood around here for the picking that the firewooders sell to folk that can't or don't want to get it themselves. hell i know land owners that will give oak away you just have to go and thin it . hell id do fire wood if i was not so lazy.lol.


Give oak away? Damn!


----------



## treeslayer2003

oaks plentiful here.......they won't give it away tho lol.


----------



## paccity

Metals406 said:


> Give oak away? Damn!


on fringes of valley and coastrange it's everywhere . lot's of scrub oak 8 to 24" diam, and plenty of 3' ers plus but the land owners like to keep the bigger stuff for the look. the lo's. will gladly let someone to thin it for free rather than pay some one to log it . or i'll go in and thin it and the lo can go and buck and haul it them selves.


----------



## RandyMac




----------



## hammerlogging

yeah lucky I'd say. ****.


----------



## Metals406

Fricken cedar.


----------



## RandyMac

Redwoods will do the same thing, don't ask me how I know that.


----------



## paccity

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=diY0JlF24kk#t=321 interesting. from down under i think.


----------



## paccity

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=qcGiVGN8LJM#t=1 and from our japanize friends .


----------



## Metals406

I can't see either post Fraze, on tapatalk. :0(


----------



## slowp

I watched the Japanese one. Hope nobody posts that on any other forum or we'll soon see videos of guys running under trees as the trees are falling. 
I guess our export market will go down a bit.


----------



## slowp

Nate, maybe this'll work for you. Next the Japanese falling technique.


----------



## slowp

Maybe you Monatiaks can study this during your chilly weather. By the way, we Warshington folks on the wet side might see temps in the.......20s. What should we do??  I'll put a new lightbulb in the well house, like always. Youse guys keep warm.


----------



## Metals406

Thanks Miss P. :0)

Was the first one OZ folks? Seems like they could use some chain work.

I've see that Jap one before.

All parties involved would benefit from some work time on the North American west coast.

Although, the Ace Tree guys in OZ seem to be pretty dang good with big wood and hazards.


----------



## HuskStihl

RandyMac said:


>



Holy ****. What's the mechanism for that? Does it start over, stall, and instead of chairing pull the rootball? Nuts!


----------



## Metals406

HuskStihl said:


> Holy ****. What's the mechanism for that? Does it start over, stall, and instead of chairing pull the rootball? Nuts!


He didn't have the back cut up, it was a rotten cull, so it let go when he cut the front rind. . . Essentially the only good hold-wood on the compression side.

Gravity took over and it pulled the back out.


----------



## KiwiBro

Must have been some good tension wood, or

the tree wouldn't have been standing
the tree would have chaired or sheared before the roots tried escaping Mother Earths grasp.
Was it one of those 'suck it and see' deals? In my very limited experience I've had that once where I felt like there was a chance of rot in the worst possible place but couldn't find a way (don't have the skills, experience, IQ) to adequately test that out without blowing any (albeit slim) chance of there being a plan B.

Hard to tell from the pic but it doesn't look like he had too many other exit routes either.


----------



## KiwiBro

The 395 in pine might be NZ. I had the sound off but there was no mistaking the trigger moment. Old man pine here can get really sappy and the kerf just doesn't want to let go of your chain if the powerhead doesn't have enough 'don't argue'.


----------



## Gologit

HuskStihl said:


> Holy ****. What's the mechanism for that? Does it start over, stall, and instead of chairing pull the rootball? Nuts!



Wet ground, shallow or compromised root system, gravity...luck of the draw. Not uncommon, either.

RandyMac was right about Redwoods doing that. It gets real interesting when you're up on a springboard when one starts to pull through. That's when it's good to have a second faller...especially one who can yell real loud.
You don't think about anything but throwing the saw as far from you as you can while you're bailing out.


----------



## KiwiBro

Gologit said:


> Wet ground, shallow or compromised root system, gravity...luck of the draw. Not uncommon, either.
> 
> RandyMac was right about Redwoods doing that. It gets real interesting when you're up on a springboard when one starts to pull through. That's when it's good to have a second faller...especially one who can yell real loud.
> You don't think about anything but throwing the saw as far from you as you can while you're bailing out.



Thanks. Is there anything other than a suck it and see or leave it alone approach that could have been taken to avoid that scenario above?


----------



## HuskStihl

I'd love to have a second faller helping me (in my case that would make him the only faller), so long as he wasn't wearing chaps over shorts


----------



## Metals406

KiwiBro said:


> The 395 in pine might be NZ. I had the sound off but there was no mistaking the trigger moment. Old man pine here can get really sappy and the kerf just doesn't want to let go of your chain if the powerhead doesn't have enough 'don't argue'.


I just watched a video of a swing mill milling old man pine in NZ.

They pointed out how pitchy old man pine is. And being relatively hard for being a pine.


----------



## RandyMac

KiwiBro said:


> Thanks. Is there anything other than a suck it and see or leave it alone approach that could have been taken to avoid that scenario above?



nope.


----------



## KiwiBro

HuskStihl said:


> I'd love to have a second faller helping me (in my case that would make him the only faller), so long as he wasn't wearing chaps over shorts


Windy has asked me to advise you that both Shaps™ and Chorts™ are ™ KiwiBro®©™.


----------



## KiwiBro

RandyMac said:


> nope.


If that happened to squash a faller here, the pencil necked banshees would have been on TV demanding another dozen layers of well-paid, air-conditioned bureaucracy to save us from ourselves.


----------



## RandyMac

Uprooting isn't like a barber-chair, not near so sudden and usually gives some notice.
I have been an active participant in 2 uproots and had a large Madrone that almost tore itself loose from a very steep hillside. I watched a couple others, one of those was done on purpose.


----------



## Gologit

KiwiBro said:


> Thanks. Is there anything other than a suck it and see or leave it alone approach that could have been taken to avoid that scenario above?


No.


----------



## treeslayer2003

i take it that timber don't have much of a tap root? i have been cutting partial blown over poplar and felt the root ball under foot move a little but never uproot.


----------



## RandyMac




----------



## northmanlogging

treeslayer2003 said:


> i take it that timber don't have much of a tap root? i have been cutting partial blown over poplar and felt the root ball under foot move a little but never uproot.



Rains to much and the soil is a little shallow, most of the timber out here doesn't really have anything resembling a tap root, they just sort of spread out. Only grow 2-3' deep usually less on second growth, couple that with lots of shale, granite and glacial till... wind storms can be interesting...


----------



## Metals406

Yup, shallow root plates can be interesting. Areas full of river rock as a base are prone to it. Spruce and red cedar are two that pull the most here.


----------



## treeslayer2003

eastern red ceder normaly blows over here before it reaches any size.........tulip poplar is bad for windthrow........i just looked at a tract with prolly two loads of large 40"+ poplar blown over. what a shame, should have been harvested years ago. maybe they will make big junk saw logs now if we lucky.


----------



## Trx250r180

RandyMac said:


>


The old time loggers around here told me if i see something like this it is ok ,but if the stump is cut off the log ,and the log is still there not to look under the stump if it is flipped upright again ........


----------



## Metals406

Yeah, root plates can be a 'logger fly trap'. 0_o


----------



## OlympicYJ

Trx250r180 said:


> The old time loggers around here told me if i see something like this it is ok ,but if the stump is cut off the log ,and the log is still there not to look under the stump if it is flipped upright again ........


Good way to make somebody unfindable haha


----------



## slowp

Hmmmm. Noticed this on a little amble through the woods this morning. Can you see it?


----------



## jwilly

Bigfoot?


----------



## KiwiBro

Who were the reprobates that left that sunlight behind? 
When are people heading into the bush going to learn: take only photos and leave only footprints. 
I hope you find who left that sunlight and give them what for.


----------



## coltont

pretty decent red oak I cut this morning.


----------



## HuskStihl

slowp said:


> Hmmmm. Noticed this on a little amble through the woods this morning. Can you see it?
> View attachment 379699


Looks like a jaw fracture?


----------



## treeslayer2003

slowp said:


> Hmmmm. Noticed this on a little amble through the woods this morning. Can you see it?
> View attachment 379699


berrys?


----------



## paccity

tension . V


----------



## northmanlogging

You worried about the viney maples or what appears to be a fuzzy wuzzy staring back at you?


----------



## KiwiBro

Venison?


----------



## treeslayer2003

y'all see critters? dang eyes goin........


----------



## treeslayer2003

coltont said:


> View attachment 379705
> View attachment 379706
> pretty decent red oak I cut this morning.


nice stick Colton


----------



## slowp

The PNWers got it despite the gloom. I was wandering around and thought I'd take a picture. Today was bright and sunny if you were out in a 40 acre field with no trees. Then, when I got onto pavement, The Used Dog jerked on the leash and I dropped my little old camera and well, it finally kind of shattered. I still have a big camera.


----------



## coltont

Thanks treeslayer


----------



## coltont

Tried to get this one on video but the 12 degrees and 20mph wind didn't really agree with my phone but here's a picture. Pretty dang nice stick of white oak


----------



## treeslayer2003

white oak like that =$$$
i see you cut off all the flair before ya fall it


----------



## madhatte

treeslayer2003 said:


> i see you cut off all the flair before ya fall it



I have only cut a handful of east coast oaks, all inside the fence here following an ice storm in 2012, and I learned pretty quickly to trim the flare. Makes both the power and the bar go further. Pretty sure I got the idea here.


----------



## coltont

Yea that's 4.00 a bft easy.......normally I'd leave the flair on and cut it off after its down but that was a particularly nice stick and I only had a 24 inch bar on and didn't want any pullers. Treeslayer I'm sure you know how white oak can pull and turn a $2000 dollar veneer butt log into a $800 saw log.


----------



## treeslayer2003

yea, i liked to xxxxed up a nice one with a 24" bar once. it did pull a piece out the stump........buyer gave me hell.......he didn't cut me any but he said don't you ever do that again. another reason i run long bars now......its weird, a 24 seems stubby now.


----------



## treeslayer2003

madhatte said:


> I have only cut a handful of east coast oaks, all inside the fence here following an ice storm in 2012, and I learned pretty quickly to trim the flare. Makes both the power and the bar go further. Pretty sure I got the idea here.


that flair on white oak can be hard too......grain running all different directions.


----------



## Metals406

If you know it's not veneer grade and just a saw log, would you still take all the time to mess with the butt?


----------



## treeslayer2003

Metals406 said:


> If you know it's not veneer grade and just a saw log, would you still take all the time to mess with the butt?


depends.......a busted butt is no good to any one. but as a rule i wouldn't mess with the flair......or it get a humbolt over the flair if the skidder don't have to go there.
that said, i have cut some pretty dam big saw logs.......a big sweet gum with two feet of fiber pull is sloppy........


----------



## coltont

Veneer or not I'd have cut it the same way. I get all kinds of hell if I high stump stuff. And you gotta be careful with that big white oak. Can't get to crazy low cause the grain in the big flair of those real big trees gets real wavy and irregular and will not hold at all. Just breaks rite off and wreaks havoc on everything if your not careful.


----------



## coltont

there's another dandy from today.


----------



## northmanlogging

So this happened today... 5 hours, just these to trees.... didn't even limb the bastards 461, with 32" bar for reference


----------



## treeslayer2003

looks like a pain in the arse northy


----------



## Cfaller

Where's the springboard notches?


----------



## paccity

northmanlogging said:


> So this happened today... 5 hours, just these to trees.... didn't even limb the bastards 461, with 32" bar for reference
> 
> 
> View attachment 381399


like to have that pistol. make some interesting slabs.


----------



## RandyMac

paccity said:


> like to have that pistol. make some interesting slabs.


was thinking the same thing


----------



## northmanlogging

Cfaller said:


> Where's the springboard notches?



Had to climb the left one, so I just hung from my rope to get the one on the right, there was sort of room to stand on the left one... sort of... its the one that took the better part of 5 hours to get down. There is a fairly nice house just behind these, and a well house...


----------



## northmanlogging

paccity said:


> like to have that pistol. make some interesting slabs.



Its a bit of a hike for you orgonieans and land o Caliphonias but I'll talk to the LO maybe slab it off... Pulling the whole thing would be tough its growing out of an old wind fall root wad.


----------



## SliverPicker

coltont said:


> Yea that's 4.00 a bft easy.......normally I'd leave the flair on and cut it off after its down but that was a particularly nice stick and I only had a 24 inch bar on and didn't want any pullers. Treeslayer I'm sure you know how white oak can pull and turn a $2000 dollar veneer butt log into a $800 saw log. View attachment 380684



$2000 for a single log? I gotta ship 62 TONS to see that kinda dough.


----------



## 056 kid

I always wondered how the east coast guys come up with their #s. Never seen the high $ #s they always talk about... I just cut them though....


----------



## HuskStihl

I won't cut any stick worth less than 3K. It's just not worth my time.


----------



## KYLogger

Probably meant $2 bdft.........


----------



## coltont

that butt cut brought $3.00 bdft. Log was a little over $1300. 4.00 a bdft has been quite frequent on our scale slips.


----------



## northmanlogging

HuskStihl said:


> I won't cut any stick worth less than 3K. It's just not worth my time.



Yeah but you mean 3k in damage...


----------



## HuskStihl

northmanlogging said:


> Yeah but you mean 3k in damage...


Superb reply! Sig worthy!


----------



## coltont

3k in damage. You mean like this? This was courtesy of mother nature. I got the wonderful job of chipping the brush cutting the firewood and getting the wood out.


----------



## treeslayer2003

056 kid said:


> I always wondered how the east coast guys come up with their #s. Never seen the high $ #s they always talk about... I just cut them though....


the tree that came off your stump there should have brought 1000-2000 if it was tall and clean. poplar like that had what, 1500 ft in it? export at one dollar a foot or more..........$$$


----------



## madhatte

$1K/Mbf for popple? Crazy.


----------



## coltont

Hell of a white oak from this morning


----------



## Metals406

coltont said:


> Hell of a white oak from this morningView attachment 381765


Being so big, is that a saw log then?


----------



## coltont

Most likely. Might manage to get them to buy 9 foot veneer though. Just maybe


----------



## treeslayer2003

madhatte said:


> $1K/Mbf for popple? Crazy.


yellow poplar, its not the same as what northern guys call popple/aspen.
it actually related to magnolia..........they peel it for veneer.


----------



## treeslayer2003

coltont said:


> Most likely. Might manage to get them to buy 9 foot veneer though. Just maybe


what? the bigger the better here.........the bigger it is the more flaws they let slide.


----------



## coltont

Had a small surface knot rite at 10 6  but they will probably look over it. Center was in the center at both ends etc..... and the log that was in the loader grapple in that one picture was white oak as well


----------



## 1270d

we ship big tooth aspen for rotary veneer. goes for high grade plywood. no kidding


----------



## coltont

We sell that junk to a guy with z firewood processor


----------



## Metals406

Quaking Aspen makes super pretty t&g.


----------



## bitzer

Well its been five years since Burvol started this thread. I hope he is alive and well and still killin timber! I learned a lot here and I hope others have as well. I would say that it was this thread that really put me over the edge to go killin timber on my own. It been three years now with my own show and I'm steadily producing more every year. I'm shootin for a million bf this year plus a thousand cords. Thats the goal anyway. I hope everyone is doin well and lovin what they're doin! And if yer not well maybe its time for a change! Happy thanksgiving!


----------



## Gologit

Quit blaming us! 

Good luck to you Bob. Keep at it.


----------



## treeslayer2003

i learned alot here too. i been doin this most my life, but i'm better at it now.


----------



## HuskStihl

I'm still terrible. But now I know some cool logging words


----------



## madhatte

treeslayer2003 said:


> yellow poplar, its not the same as what northern guys call popple/aspen.
> it actually related to magnolia..........they peel it for veneer.



Ah! Makes sense. Thank you for the info. 



bitzer said:


> Well its been five years since Burvol started this thread. I hope he is alive and well and still killin timber!



I see him on the Facebooks once in awhile. He's still kickin'.


----------



## Metals406

HuskStihl said:


> I'm still terrible. But now I know some cool logging words


Like 'chainsaw' and 'tree'?


----------



## slowp

When da sap starts runnin, da loggers go off to peel da popple. Dey get paid more for peeled popple, I guess.


----------



## RandyMac

HuskStihl said:


> I'm still terrible. But now I know some cool logging words


limberdick


----------



## Metals406

RandyMac said:


> limberdick


Timbercock?


----------



## HuskStihl

Bull-Donkey, snatch-buck, and my favorite, kerf


----------



## northmanlogging

Huh... You rotten little Kerf, why I oughta bull donkey yer gall derned snatch buck...


----------



## HuskStihl

northmanlogging said:


> Huh... You rotten little Kerf, why I oughta bull donkey yer gall derned snatch buck...


I see you sprechen sie logger a little bit too!


----------



## slowp

I can top all of ye. You are acting like Sahara (Sierra) Club people! And look like Farmer Loggers.


----------



## SliverPicker

Dat popple easy ta peel when da sap is runnin' like dat.


----------



## 1270d

you should throw "spud" in there too Sliver. or is it "shpud"?


----------



## coltont

Peckerpole maybe?


----------



## chucker

broom stick...?


----------



## chucker

cock knockers an bell!


----------



## chucker

rookie teeth.......


----------



## northmanlogging

School marm


----------



## Metals406

Stump Fu. . . Oh look, candy.


----------



## Gologit

Candy side.


----------



## northmanlogging

haywire outfit


----------



## Metals406

****** lip


----------



## RandyMac

stump ****er aka spruce fly


----------



## Metals406

RandyMac said:


> stump ****er aka spruce fly


My first day in the woods, I thought I was being told fairy tales. Then of course, I started seeing a bunch of them. Couple of the timber fallers had me convinced that their sting was worse than a scorpion.


----------



## slowp

Found these today.


He cuts one armed to stay out of the way.



A big old stump.


----------



## northmanlogging

So here's a couple from the last few days...

Lovely little spring board action, saw is just hanging there, ground doesn't level out for 4-5 more feet down... I hate nurse logs



This was supposed to be The SSD with dancing vid... still trying to figure out my video camera thougs, so this is all ya get for awhile...


----------



## Jan-Sietze

bitzer said:


> Some pics from a couple of weeks ago. More of a sinking than a falling pic.



- Mayday, mayday. Can you hear us?
We are sinking, we are sinking.
- hello, this is a German coast-guard.
what are you thinking about?


----------



## KYLogger

First attempt at pictures. A couple of shots from the current job.


----------



## KYLogger

Did it work??


----------



## mdavlee

Yeah they worked.


----------



## KYLogger

The Kentucky boy figured out how to post pics.......watch out hell may be freezing over.


----------



## treeslayer2003

nice work Tom!


----------



## Gologit

Here's how it was done. This is the best video I've seen in a long time. These guys are loggers.


----------



## Metals406

Gologit said:


> Here's how it was done. This is the best video I've seen in a long time. These guys are loggers.



The sound effects were corny.

And I ***** about packing my 385 and set'n 1/2" chokers! LOL

I bet them fellas complained about being in small wood too. ;0)


----------



## HuskStihl

It's funny, change the saw to an 066, and make the boys have that "Charles Manson and chewbacca had a baby" look, and it could have easily been a Northman vid.


----------



## Gologit

Metals406 said:


> The sound effects were corny.
> 
> And I ***** about packing my 385 and set'n 1/2" chokers! LOL
> 
> I bet them fellas complained about being in small wood too. ;0)



I was a little disappointed with the hokey sound affects but the rest of it is the real deal. Change the saws, the loader, the Cats. and that old Cornbinder for today's equipment and you see that things really haven't changed all that much.
Watching the fallers scramble over the logs brought back some memories. Some good and some not so good.
Watching that one guy scratch for traction climbing on that log...LOL...I could hear him thinking "Dammit, that's it. Tonight I'm putting in new calks".


----------



## rwoods

Bob, I couldn't tell from the clip. Do you know if they had plastic wedges back then? I noted he only carried two. My father didn't cut any thing near the size shown just nice pines. He only had a small 4" or so aluminum wedge and standard steel splitting wedges. I also noted the one fellow carrying I assume his bar oil in an Ivory soap bottle. My father did as well. I guess the slow old gear drives didn't use as much bar oil as a modern saw does ???? Thanks for posting this clip. I enjoyed it. Ron


----------



## Metals406

Gologit said:


> I was a little disappointed with the hokey sound affects but the rest of it is the real deal. Change the saws, the loader, the Cats. and that old Cornbinder for today's equipment and you see that things really haven't changed all that much.
> Watching the fallers scramble over the logs brought back some memories. Some good and some not so good.
> Watching that one guy scratch for traction climbing on that log...LOL...I could hear him thinking "Dammit, that's it. Tonight I'm putting in new calks".


I was stubborn with my caulks, "I can get another week outta these". . . *slip, trip, fall*

LOL


----------



## KYLogger

Good video! What's the vintage?? early 60's? 

Chain brakes???? We don't need no stinkin' chain brakes! Those were MEN....... That's what we call "low impact logging"  I love to see pics and video of the "golden age".


----------



## Metals406

KYLogger said:


> Good video! What's the vintage?? early 60's?
> 
> Chain brakes???? We don't need no stinkin' chain brakes! Those were MEN....... That's what we call "low impact logging"  I love to see pics and video of the "golden age".


1950's decade.


----------



## Trx250r180

slowp said:


> Found these today.
> View attachment 382390
> 
> He cuts one armed to stay out of the way.
> View attachment 382391
> 
> 
> A big old stump.
> View attachment 382392


Is that a springboard notch to the right of the moss ?


----------



## slowp

Trx250r180 said:


> Is that a springboard notch to the right of the moss ?



Yup. Those are fairly common in the big old stumps.


----------



## RandyMac

My guess, going by the McCulloch, which looks like a 1-86, puts the vid around 1962-64. The Homelite is a 9-XX 0r 900 series, when bucking large logs, that front "muffler" would bounce all the noise back at you, sometimes you could feel the sound vibes in your chest. Tinhats caught noise too, a McCulloch drive-side up would make your whole head ring.


----------



## Gologit

RandyMac said:


> My guess, going by the McCulloch, which looks like a 1-86, puts the vid around 1962-64. The Homelite is a 9-XX 0r 900 series, when bucking large logs, that front "muffler" would bounce all the noise back at you, sometimes you could feel the sound vibes in your chest. Tinhats caught noise too, a McCulloch drive-side up would make your whole head ring.



Huh? Say what?


----------



## treeslayer2003

Gologit said:


> Huh? Say what?


Bob i sent you a PM........


----------



## Gologit

treeslayer2003 said:


> Bob i sent you a PM........




Got it. Answer sent.


----------



## treeslayer2003

thank you sir


----------



## northmanlogging

Chewbacca and Charles are both dudes... pretty sure my ma was born a gurl? Then I'm not real sure Chembacca is a dude either...


----------



## Gologit

northmanlogging said:


> Chewbacca and Charles are both dudes... pretty sure my ma was born a gurl? Then I'm not real sure Chembacca is a dude either...


 Well, the only way to find out for sure is....ah, never mind, I'm not really that curious.


----------



## Skeans

Some of sailing mask poles to go up to aberdeen, and a little 562xpw with a 32" bar


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## treeslayer2003

i notice on your block that you didn't take out a snipe on either the top or bottom.......or so it looks to me in the pic. i block quite a bit but in hardwood, i have noticed in some wood it will still pull a little fiber without a snipe. you have not seen this in your wood i take it?


----------



## Skeans

I put one in the stump after the picture, pull wasn't huge and not a huge deal because of the flair and being a pull we had a diameter to hit on the butt


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## treeslayer2003

gotcha.........i have seen pics with no or little snipe, just wondering.


----------



## Spotted Owl

North. 

Sunshine and a tack hammer? You're giving us PNW folks a bad name. All the BS we've been slinging about big wedge axes, and rain enough to make us into mole people is getting shot out the winda. Photos like these and nobodies gonna believe us anymore. 

Nice work there, spring boards keep ya on your toes. They do me anyway, I don't like them one little bit. 


If the side of that truck in the video says Gollie, I believe they're still going. Good movie there. Keep praying and someday the Feds may cut loose with some big wood again. Plenty getting to and past the point of no return. Someone around here is cutting two, three and four log loads, been sometime since I seen that. Been seeing them on my morning commute. They're going north, but I don't know where.



Owl


----------



## Skeans

Owl how's that for a board?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## treeslayer2003

i have a dumb ?.........when standing in that cutting, where do you go when the tree goes?


----------



## northmanlogging

treeslayer2003 said:


> i have a dumb ?.........when standing in that cutting, where do you go when the tree goes?


down... fast and hope ya don't twist an ankle so ya's can keep movin when ya hit the ground... If I wasn't such a fat ass clutz I'd make a spring board vid otherwise I think there is enough embarassing footage of me on the net as it is...

that maple stump was supposed to be part of a vid makin fun of the bore cut nutzis... it only happened to be sunny, 2nd day of sun since october.


----------



## treeslayer2003

huh? ya mean you don't grow wings n fly? dang bro lol.


----------



## Spotted Owl

Skeans, that there looks like a good time. I'm what some political folk call uncoordinated, AKA, I fall down a lot in the brush. Not by choice, just is what it is. Thus my dislike for boards, and a round one like you have there, would be my weapon of absolute last resort. What'cha got going on on the back side there? Sucker? I learned how to reach as far as I can over my head with a saw, in effort to not have to deal with the things. Not the safest, but if I could get it to work I would. Good way to leave a post though. 

Tree, sometimes you get to be up high enough that you don't get to go. You gotta be darned sure of what's going to happen though. You just move around to the back, or jump and take your chances if need be. Death on tooth picks I called it. Never done alone, at minimum another guy was on the ground watching, just in case. Usually that was me, cause everyone knew how I was. 

I think Randy or Bob had a photo some time back, had some woods made scaffolding wrapped around one that was being worked on. I can climb about anything, but I'm tied in most of that time, left to my own balance I'm screwed, I don't even like walking on a roof edge.



Owl


----------



## HuskStihl

treeslayer2003 said:


> gotcha.........i have seen pics with no or little snipe, just wondering.


I was wondering the same thing. Y'all know my awesome qualifications, and when I have blocked, it has been with an intentionally (maybe) "not meeting" Humboldt with a vertical bore from the side completing the block. I've never made two parallel gunning cuts, bored it into a block, then sniped, but it actually seems like an easier way to get it done.


----------



## Spotted Owl

Painfully slow to watch, but this guy stays on the board, Who knows why, didn't seem that far up, but I wasn't there.



Building some spring boards and spring board plat form. Also a good reasin to run from the big old ones.




Owl


----------



## Wannabe123

Sorry to but in, but I have been reading this thread for two days now, just being blown away by what you guys do and have done. The way you describe logging; the people, the work, the reasons you put up with the bad stuff. I'd give a testicle to follow one of you old salts around in the woods for a week pissing you off and asking idiot rookie questions.

I'm at a point in my life where I just went from being one of the old salts in my last profession, the guy who did the stuff the kids who do it today read about in middle/high school that made them want to start. It's tough. Now that I am out at the mercy of the world again and have to start a job (maybe profession) from the bottom rung again, it's hard. I want to be a logger more than I wanted to do my last job before I started it, but I'm 31 and don't have a lick of professional experience with a saw.

What blows is that because I am formerly a pro something, I know how to be a good rookie. I have common sense, learn quick, and know how to work with trees enough to avoid killing myself if I was studying under a true professional. I have the itch to this like I can't explain. I probably never will, so add it to another list of regrets or coulda beens in my life. Not crying in my beer here, things in life happen this way, some just stick with you a little longer than others.

Anyway I am applying with the BLM to try to join a fire crew at the bottom of the ladder, at least get some time in the woods and maybe learn something. I can probably manage to get into the residential tree field, and that'd be fine, but I'd rather just drop trees. Again sorry to derail your thread, I just really wanted to say thanks for all the shared stories and experiences. Keep the good pics coming and if you see me lurking around here running my suck cut me a little slack, I'm not hiding that I am a wannabe, and if I start to sound like a know it all bs artists it's only because I am taking what I think I have learned from you guys who know the drill and trying to make sense of it.

Of all the internet forums I've been to this is the one I have the least business being on, and yet I have had the most fun and think the members are the best.


----------



## Gologit




----------



## northmanlogging

Start cold calling logging outfits in your area, mention yer wanting to start over, keep at it. Granted Main logging is fairly mechanized but there is room on the bottom rung for those that are eager.

Whatcha used to do?

And 31 isn't that old, I'm 37 now, started cutting on the side when I was 32 (after exp. from when I was much younger granted) its grown on its own since then.


----------



## Metals406

Wannabe123 said:


> Sorry to but in, but I have been reading this thread for two days now, just being blown away by what you guys do and have done. The way you describe logging; the people, the work, the reasons you put up with the bad stuff. I'd give a testicle to follow one of you old salts around in the woods for a week pissing you off and asking idiot rookie questions.
> 
> I'm at a point in my life where I just went from being one of the old salts in my last profession, the guy who did the stuff the kids who do it today read about in middle/high school that made them want to start. It's tough. Now that I am out at the mercy of the world again and have to start a job (maybe profession) from the bottom rung again, it's hard. I want to be a logger more than I wanted to do my last job before I started it, but I'm 31 and don't have a lick of professional experience with a saw.
> 
> What blows is that because I am formerly a pro something, I know how to be a good rookie. I have common sense, learn quick, and know how to work with trees enough to avoid killing myself if I was studying under a true professional. I have the itch to this like I can't explain. I probably never will, so add it to another list of regrets or coulda beens in my life. Not crying in my beer here, things in life happen this way, some just stick with you a little longer than others.
> 
> Anyway I am applying with the BLM to try to join a fire crew at the bottom of the ladder, at least get some time in the woods and maybe learn something. I can probably manage to get into the residential tree field, and that'd be fine, but I'd rather just drop trees. Again sorry to derail your thread, I just really wanted to say thanks for all the shared stories and experiences. Keep the good pics coming and if you see me lurking around here running my suck cut me a little slack, I'm not hiding that I am a wannabe, and if I start to sound like a know it all bs artists it's only because I am taking what I think I have learned from you guys who know the drill and trying to make sense of it.
> 
> Of all the internet forums I've been to this is the one I have the least business being on, and yet I have had the most fun and think the members are the best.


What state are you in?


----------



## KiwiBro

Hi Wannabe123,

You've just explained my scenario too. From on top of my game to grovelling newbie getting frustrated and questioning my sanity. The road less travelled. I figure it's like going back to university and taking years of work and learning just to be able to add value to an outfit and get a basic level of experience to be safe and on the road to productive.

It costs about the same as a varsity degree too. After three years of getting my ass kicked, I think I might break even or make a small living this year for the first time since leaving a profession where my people charged me out in 15min intervals for four times what I'm happy to earn now per hour.

To be honest, knowing what I do now I don't think it was a wise call to make such a radical change. It's been way harder than first thought. But I'm enjoying every minute of it, except when gear breaks, people let you down, the weather sucks, etc. Which is often.


----------



## KiwiBro

Oh and yes these pros on here are fantastic and so generous with their time and knowledge. We are bloody lucky to have em to learn from.


----------



## Wannabe123

Metals406 said:


> What state are you in?


Maine. Hasn't been big timber here in along time. Ever if you go by PNW srandards


KiwiBro said:


> Oh and yes these pros on here are fantastic and so generous with their time and knowledge. We are bloody lucky to have em to learn from.


agreed.


----------



## Wannabe123

North, Just got out of the Corps. Officially a civilian Monday at 0001


----------



## Metals406

KiwiBro said:


> . . . where my pimp charged me out in 15min intervals for four times what I'm happy to earn now per hour.



Makes sense.



[emoji14]


----------



## Metals406

Wannabe123 said:


> North, Just got out of the Corps. Officially a civilian Monday at 0001


So yer good at kill'n, blowing chit up, & observation and reporting.

All valuable skills in the timber industry as well. ;0)

Maine is covered in trees. Try and break-in as a groundy with a local tree company.

Another option is a contractor that clears right-of-way. The ones here get in a little bit of everything. Bucket work, straight falling, climbing.

Fires can be hit and miss on your side of the Mississippi. I've worked with shot crews that migrate this way during peak season. One crew was out if Michigan I believe.


----------



## treeslayer2003

Wannabe123 said:


> Maine. Hasn't been big timber here in along time. Ever if you go by PNW srandards
> 
> agreed.


thank you for your service.
it would be hard to start on your own from scratch, buying timber on your name almost demands prior generations for referance. like northy said, keep on the phone.


----------



## Wannabe123

Metals406 said:


> So yer good at kill'n, blowing chit up, & observation and reporting.



Yeah, I'll cop to that. Quite good if I do say so myself.

Thanks guys, sincerely. I have only been home less than a month, so it's not like I've had time to grow discouraged. It's very good ol' boy up here braking into ANY industry, but since I have been here I have already met more than a few willing to help, even if it's only to inadvertently teach me that I know a lot less than I thought  Besides, I know some good ol' boys. I'm certainly not snubbing residential work, I just wonder how good I'd be at it. Oh well, 31 ain't dead, no time like the present to find my other true calling.


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## treeslayer2003

you will find that there is good folks every where if ya just look for um.


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## HuskStihl

KiwiBro said:


> Oh and yes these pros on here are fantastic and so generous with their time and knowledge. We are bloody lucky to have em to learn from.


As always, you're welcome!


----------



## KiwiBro

HuskStihl said:


> As always, you're welcome!



Thankfully there is more than one village on AS.


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## northmanlogging

civilian groundie crew may not pay the best buy you will get a chance to show werk ethic and learn saw work. 

Seems most of the folks I know coming back from the sandlot end up in menial labor, shovel jockeys I.E. Manwell labor, or sticking part A into slot B... Logging isn't really menial, too much **** going on to have dummies wandering around.

Any way best of luck to ya, and its a pain to get on out here, especially in the winter, but there have been a few outfits hiring, usually for rigging crew stuff (choker setter, rigging slinger, and chaser) setter and chaser being fairly bottom rung stuff. But if you want to be a respected PNW faller ya pretty much have to start at the bottom and go up, wages where live able by the way. Of course you would have to pack up and move across country...


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## KiwiBro

Metals406 said:


> Makes sense.
> 
> 
> 
> [emoji14]


15 mins or part thereof. Handy for the 2 min wonders. 30 of them an hr and the pimp wasn't the only one rolling in it.

But seriously, when it starts feeling like white-collar prostitution, there's no point in having a full bank account but an empty soul. Fortunately, I saw enough of those empty, walking, rich corporate cadavers to seek better balance before slipping passed the point of no return.

Easy to say it shouldn't be about the money but much harder to actually live with when taking an average 75% pay cut for three years. So many things have to change, but I guess that was the whole point in the first place. Another few years and the pain of the transition will be forgotten and a much more balanced life, more connected to nature, meeting some genuinely clever bastards (not paint by numbers concrete jungle educated) will be worth every cent of the pay drop, hopefully.


----------



## BeatCJ

The Interagency Hand Crews (Hotshot) are hard to get on without fire experience, but are one of the places where military service is respected. Right now is the time to start watching and applying for federal fire jobs, if that's what you want to do. Staying in the east will limit you, too. I have attached a couple of links below. The easiest way to get in is with an engine crew. Have you gone and talked to any of your local National Forests, BLM, BIA, National Parks? They may be able to point you to something more local. In the west, there are a lot of contractors, too. Some are looked down on, but it can be a place to start. And in truth, there isn't a whole lot of difference between a contractor crew and Hotshot Crew that just a little discipline and leadership couldn't fix.

https://www.nifc.gov/aboutNIFC/about_faq.html
http://www.fs.fed.us/fire/people/hotshots/IHC_index.html
http://www.blm.gov/nifc/st/en/prog/fire/fireops/people_in_fire/hotshots/recruitment.html
https://fsoutreach.gdcii.com/Outreach


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## 1270d

Wannabe123 said:


> North, Just got out of the Corps. Officially a civilian Monday at 0001



Thanks for serving. You want to work mechanized, or sawing? Or do you not care as long as its woods work?


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## Spotted Owl

Wannabe. First and above all. Thanks

Second in the word of Horace Greeley. Go west young man. I don't know about places other than out here, but there seems to be a resurgence happening. Lots of work. We're fighting the same epidemic as the rest of the country though. Not enough people willing to start who are actually willing to work. I can think of 5 outfits off the top of my head that are looking for strapping young lads willing to work. If for some reason one place doesn't work out there are others around looking.

If you want to work in the woods, follow North's advise. Maybe take it a notch above though. Show up at the shops looking for work, instead of "another" phone caller. Stake'em out a bit, find out when guys start showing up at the shops and what days. Be there BEFORE they are. Meet them at the door and be ready to start that day as soon as you talk to them. It may take some time, but it will work. Especially if they see that you are able to be up running and ready when the work starts, that will answer a big question for them without having to ask.

I didn't want my boy in this work. I'll tell you the same thing I told him, and most anyone else that asks me about it. 

IF YOU WANT IT BAD ENOUGH, _*YOU'LL*_ FIND A WAY TO MAKE IT HAPPEN. 

Ya gotta want it. When you get it, listen to your gut, you won't have enough experience to listen to or look for much else as far as problems to avoid or be ready for. Your gut will talk to you, you better listen.



Owl


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## northmanlogging

From what I hear the big yarder crews have trouble finding enough warm bodies that want to show up every day, hard to keep production up when every warm body has a job to do... only takes 1 or 2 guys staying home to shut down a side.


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## KiwiBro

northmanlogging said:


> From what I hear the big yarder crews have trouble finding enough warm bodies that want to show up every day, hard to keep production up when every warm body has a job to do... only takes 1 or 2 guys staying home to shut down a side.


Wouldn't want to be chasing payments on gear and being held hostage by no-show staff. Talk about frustrating.


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## Wannabe123

Whew! I stirred up a hornets nest! To answer a few questions:
I'm applying with the BLM right now, entry level, low pay, 6 month gig, but experience
West I'd like to do, but I gotta make a little cake first here. Can't leave the squaw and pups completely in the cold while I go seek my fortune  Then again, I am NE mainah through and through, so it'll be tough to leave.
Owl, I definitely appreciate the comments, and agree. If I start railing against outrageous fortune instead of getting up and doing something I'll be screwed for sure, and I like to think I can do what I choose (for the time being) in this country.
I'd prefer to cut wood with my brains and a saw, but around here "falling" isn't usually it's own category, you just log and do whatever ya gotta do to get wood to market. Lots of paper companies do the bulk of the logging on large scale. If I'm in the woods, I'm happy, and I'd rather cut than be a Warden. Those dudes get shot a lot, and otherwise just sit on their rumps (northwoods law is pretty much BS)
I have also made some contacts on here in the residential field who are in my neck of the woods (goodfellers, great guy) who have offered some help.

Either way, you guys are cool.

OH! PS! My father in law has been dropping trees for a coons age, and he has about 2 acres he wants cleared of a good mix of pines/oak/maple/scrub which we should be tackling together in the spring (not for money, why do it in the cold?), and my old man's neighbor wants to clear about 3 come spring as well. So I'll at least get to go play, and most of the wood will be mine! Nothing gigundus, but a few 20" plus that'll give me a chance to test you guys' hair brained theories! Anywho, I'll get to take some pics and play logger for a while, should be fun. I'll pt em up for you experts to critique (probably in a thread for noob wannabes though. This thread has dudes dropping redwoods. I know when I'm out of my weight class  )


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## treeslayer2003

just remember, the fudementals are the same no mater what size timber your cutting. in other words, cut a 20" the same as you would a 40". bad habbits are hard to break.


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## RandyMac

I love my bad habits


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## northmanlogging

meh have you seen my stumps... not exactly the greatest stuff around...

these hairbrained ideas work, and work well. They may make fun of ya for making humboldts but the benifts out weigh the cons.


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## Spotted Owl

Wait til you're out there and stir up a real hornets nest. Just wait, you will. Do you guys have them bald face hornets over there? Those are the best.

Just remember. Not every ugly stump has an ugly story to it. I had a couple today that look like a hack job at best, but them suckers sure pulled around where I needed them to go. Got one to go almost 90 to a big lean, broke off perfect on an old stump and saved out better than I had hoped for. That is one twisted nasty looking stump.

Just remember, hard lessons are still lessons learned. Sometimes they stick with ya better too. So long as there not to hard.



Owl


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## Wannabe123

RandyMac said:


> I love my bad habits



I'm starting to think that I'd be well served to get my fundamentals well sorted before taking your advice. No offense, but I'm not good enough to take your advice and survive it


----------



## Gologit

treeslayer2003 said:


> just remember, the fudementals are the same no mater what size timber your cutting. in other words, cut a 20" the same as you would a 40". bad habbits are hard to break.


 Yup.


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## HuskStihl

Wannabe123 said:


> This thread has dudes dropping redwoods. I know when I'm out of my weight class  )


This thread also has at least one guy missing every cut while screaming like a little girl


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## HuskStihl

treeslayer2003 said:


> just remember, the fudementals are the same no mater what size timber your cutting. in other words, cut a 20" the same as you would a 40". bad habbits are hard to break.


From another wannabe, I find 24 and bigger to be "safer" "slower", and much more predictable than the under 16" stuff. Stay on u'r toes.


----------



## treeslayer2003

Spotted Owl said:


> Wait til you're out there and stir up a real hornets nest. Just wait, you will. Do you guys have them bald face hornets over there? Those are the best.
> 
> Just remember. Not every ugly stump has an ugly story to it. I had a couple today that look like a hack job at best, but them suckers sure pulled around where I needed them to go. Got one to go almost 90 to a big lean, broke off perfect on an old stump and saved out better than I had hoped for. That is one twisted nasty looking stump.
> 
> Just remember, hard lessons are still lessons learned. Sometimes they stick with ya better too. So long as there not to hard.
> 
> 
> 
> Owl


we do but the ground bees are far worse..........none of them bastids around now, it was near 0 last night.


----------



## Wannabe123

HuskStihl said:


> From another wannabe, I find 24 and bigger to be "safer" "slower", and much more predictable than the under 16" stuff. Stay on u'r toes.



Thanks, I will. I like living.


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## HuskStihl

Honey bees, yellow jackets, fire ants, oh my!


----------



## HuskStihl

Wannabe123 said:


> Thanks, I will. I like living.


Thanks again for protecting us over there. Is it true the Taliban have a "fighting season"? I heard that, but thought my wife was the only one with a well established fighting season (typically from thanksgiving until the Christmas tree disappears for the year).


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## treeslayer2003

lol


----------



## Spotted Owl

Wannabe123 said:


> No offense



What? What did you just say?

You need to get this thought line nonsense out your head, if people get offended that's their problem not yours. Do you have any idea what this board would look like, if the censor/play nice thing wasn't around. I know you're a Marine, but buddy, you would see and hear things that you ain't never heard or even thought before. 

Offend them, go on it's OK, really. Hell I used to and sometimes still do, just to see what it will or would take. Start with Randy, it's OK, try it. Offend him, yea see if you can do it and what it takes. If you can get under the skin of some of them old crusty guys, that is to be worn like a badge of honor. It's tough to get them, now pissing them off is not the same as getting under their skin. Don't worry you'll know when you have success, there will be no question. Of coarse, you'll have to quit, cause well, he's old and doesn't care. BUT, you will have gotten him like nobody has been able in years, maybe decades. 

Oh, yea, don't mess with the nice ones. Just the grumps. You better be able to take it too. Cause those guys really know how to dish it out back at ya. Oh, man, their gooooood. I maybe getting to be the old grump now days, sometimes I am looking for a guy who can take it and give it right back, just to have someone to banter and play around with. Doesn't happen much these days.

Gotta be sure you got skin just as, or tougher than theirs. Cause some of them are really gonna test ya. Remember this, another thing I told my kids, if someone offends you, you have given them way to much power, in and over your life.





Owl


----------



## Wannabe123

HuskStihl said:


> Thanks again for protecting us over there. Is it true the Taliban have a "fighting season"? I heard that, but thought my wife was the only one with a well established fighting season (typically from thanksgiving until the Christmas tree disappears for the year).


Only had one trip to Afghanistan, pretty quiet the whole time, but they do slow down a bit when it gets cold. They are pretty fair weather fighters. I was in flat, desert type terrain though, and I here the mountain guys are much more inclined to fight in the cold.

Iraqis I have quite a bit more experience with. They seem to be more pronounced in their drop off of activity in the cold months. Trouble in Iraq was you'd get fighters from colder climates coming there to mix it up, so there was always a little fun to be had. They both do take breaks for their holidays, when they are supposed to be fasting they minimize their activity a bit. There are tons of koranic loopholes for breaking the rules when engaged in jihad though, so even that doesn't guarantee much.

It's much longer than your wife's fighting season though. If you call what they do fighting. I call it ambushing, blowing crap up and running away. The last part sometimes doesn't work out for em. Some earned my respect for their cunning and ingenuity, very few for their bravery or real time tactics.

And Owl, I'll take your advice. I take back what I said about no offense, I hope it bothered him right out of his flannel skirt.


----------



## slowp

Ummmm, Forestry School? That way you can work in the woods and not get so beat up.


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## 1270d

Speaking of flannel skirts, what ever happened to the Scottish guy that used to be around here? Bestedup?


----------



## RandyMac

Spotted Owl said:


> Wait til you're out there and stir up a real hornets nest. Just wait, you will. Do you guys have them bald face hornets over there? Those are the best.
> 
> Just remember. Not every ugly stump has an ugly story to it. I had a couple today that look like a hack job at best, but them suckers sure pulled around where I needed them to go. Got one to go almost 90 to a big lean, broke off perfect on an old stump and saved out better than I had hoped for. That is one twisted nasty looking stump.
> 
> Just remember, hard lessons are still lessons learned. Sometimes they stick with ya better too. So long as there not to hard.
> 
> 
> 
> Owl



Ugly stumps are called Whitloes, named for an infamous family that lives up Salmon Creek in SoHum County.
you knew what I'm talking about, you get started into something, get your mind changed, start gnawin' away again.
Such stumps are characterized by lots of bevels, odd pieces of hinge, ax choppin', weird fiber pull, maybe even some root pull, impressed wedge marks.....


----------



## Metals406

1270d said:


> Speaking of flannel skirts, what ever happened to the Scottish guy that used to be around here? Bestedup?


He's around, SH's.


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## Spotted Owl

I think everyone that's been at this a while has left such things behind. I know I sure have. We should all know exactly what you are talking about, as far as having your mind changed for you. I haven't been around anything big enough to worry over root pull in a good while now.


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## 1270d

I see.


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## SliverPicker

Owl said this (and a whole mouthful more);

"Oh, yea, don't mess with the nice ones. Just the grumps. You better be able to take it too. Cause those guys really know how to dish it out back at ya. Oh, man, their gooooood. I maybe getting to be the old grump now days, sometimes I am looking for a guy who can take it and give it right back, just to have someone to banter and play around with. Doesn't happen much these days."

Let me try to give an example. A crew I worked with 3 or 4 years ago had one guy from west of here that was a true veteran timber faller. He had had 25+ years falling for a helicopter outfit. Crusty is the word for this guy. No longer a faller, but an excellent hand in any piece of equipment. Anyway at the end of a solid 10 hour day of dropping trees right near 10,000 feet above sea level I staggered out of the brush on to the main forest road we were working. There was this guy adding oil to his skidder. I didn't even know he was there until I came out into the light of day. He heard me put my saw and jugs down. He turned partly around to look at me. The first thing out of his mouth was:

"A plastic hardhat?" "I'd rather have a sister in a whorehouse than wear a plastic hat." I knew I had to come up with something good and quick. Just the sight of me annoyed this guy. I would run shovel when he was processing. He would process and I would sort logs and stack brush. He was constantly cussin' me for "being in the way". So after he said that he'd rather have a prostitute for a sister than wear a plastic hat I came back with: "Yeah, well I have both." "Is that right?" he said. "What's her name. I probably know her." "I wouldn't be surprised if you know her, 'cause you can certainly afford her" I said. We got along perfectly after that little exchange. We even talked about going in partners on a side together for the rest of the season. He just wanted to get it thrown back at him I guess.


----------



## northmanlogging

Funny thing, I think I do have a sister in a whore house... or at least formerly...


----------



## Spotted Owl

Sliver, that is exactly what I am talking about. All the new guys are so "sensitive" that you can't even look at the cross eyed, or some of them will actually break down. What the heck is that. When did feelings become part of the work day. One of the first things I tell anyone new, if you got feelers, leave them at home, they got no place here. 

I just want someone who is willing to play around with a bit now and then. It's such a rare thing now days, someone like that coming around is like hitting a gold mine. I grew up with that stuff, at a level that would be deemed illegal these days. What the heck happened to this world. What's wrong with dipping a stick in a fresh crap pile and then depositing a bit of said pile at the very end of the fingers of a guys pair of gloves? If it got to that level, what happened to good fun like that? 

Can you imagine if you pulled that guys line about the whorehouse, on one of today's kids, my gawd in today's world you'd be down the road, especially if the wrong person on the job got wind of it.

It's a sorely missed thing. Now the only people who want to be like this are people who have no idea about it. They just want to fit in somehow, it's not them( and it's easy to tell ) but they do it anyway. It's not the same as someone who has it deep down, it's gift, either you got it, or you limp along trying to convincingly pretend that you do.

Where are the gifted of today's youth? Heck where did the gifted go that were/are still out there, they all clammed up.



Owl


----------



## KiwiBro

Spotted Owl said:


> Where are the gifted of today's youth?


 They stopped screwing their sisters and the 6-fingered picking of their banjos long enough to find a way out? I say give it a few more generations of outbreeding and they'll be sick of that too and looking for something new.


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## northmanlogging

I'd play, but ya better keep yer hands to yerself... Its been awhile since I've made someone cry...


----------



## HuskStihl

Spotted Owl said:


> Sliver, that is exactly what I am talking about. All the new guys are so "sensitive" that you can't even look at the cross eyed, or some of them will actually break down. What the heck is that. When did feelings become part of the work day. One of the first things I tell anyone new, if you got feelers, leave them at home, they got no place here.
> 
> I just want someone who is willing to play around with a bit now and then. It's such a rare thing now days, someone like that coming around is like hitting a gold mine. I grew up with that stuff, at a level that would be deemed illegal these days. What the heck happened to this world. What's wrong with dipping a stick in a fresh crap pile and then depositing a bit of said pile at the very end of the fingers of a guys pair of gloves? If it got to that level, what happened to good fun like that?
> 
> Can you imagine if you pulled that guys line about the whorehouse, on one of today's kids, my gawd in today's world you'd be down the road, especially if the wrong person on the job got wind of it.
> 
> It's a sorely missed thing. Now the only people who want to be like this are people who have no idea about it. They just want to fit in somehow, it's not them( and it's easy to tell ) but they do it anyway. It's not the same as someone who has it deep down, it's gift, either you got it, or you limp along trying to convincingly pretend that you do.
> 
> Where are the gifted of today's youth? Heck where did the gifted go that were/are still out there, they all clammed up.
> 
> 
> 
> Owl


Just reading that horrible, nasty post made me all verklempt, and inhibited the spiritual development of my inner child. Exposing people to poop germs is bad enough, but have you thought about the harm you may have done to the delicate ego structure and self worth of your co-workers? I think it is high time sensitivity training became mandatory at all logging companies.....


----------



## treeslayer2003

is your better half still starting your saws for ya?


----------



## SliverPicker

I have a name for those that can dish the b.s. pretty heavy: The Chosen Few. The guys I grew up with in the U.P. where all masters of this sort of degradation. It's the funniest sort of humor possible in my opinion. I very very rarely ever find someone who "gets it". I find myself biting my tongue most of the time around folks. Tongue gets sore. Maybe that's why I prefer to work alone?


----------



## slowp

Note the term used, *degradation*. Some folks grew up with having to hear BS from a young age and shouldn't have to take it anymore. I was going to quit a job because I just couldn't handle it anymore, and luckily a transfer I put in for came through. Think boot camp with a mean horrible drill sergeant for years instead of weeks. That's my take. Sensitive? or just sick and tired of it? The line is blurry so it's best for the harassers to be careful.


----------



## RandyMac

There is a difference between harassment and testing someone's mettle, the distinction has gotten blurred and in many cases, completely lost. 
Younger persons have been subjected to "sensitivity" indoctrination and are trained to be offended at almost anything. Old school banter is no longer recognized for what it is.

Some of you puppies get to the rigging, you are making nothing but shade standing around.


----------



## Gologit

HuskStihl said:


> I think it is high time sensitivity training became mandatory at all logging companies.....



I was sent to sensitivity training a few years ago. I was required to attend. A female Hispanic truck driver that was hauling for us took offense when the other truck drivers refused to tarp a load of lumber for her. She didn't want to tarp her own load because she'd just had her fingernails done. She complained to me because I was unlucky enough to be in the office that day. I told her to either do her job or go home and that pretty fingernails were no excuse for shirking her responsibilities. She got mad. She yelled. She cussed. She refused. She went home. On the way she stopped by the HR department and filed a grievance against me and against all the truck drivers who refused to do her job for her. Did I mention that two of the other truck drivers that refused to do the other one's job were also female.?
We _all_ got sent to sensitivity training. Eight hours of lectures and videos and touchy-feely role playing. We all got through it without throwing up but sometimes it was close.
Two weeks later that same driver ran a couple of cars off the road with her truck, was stopped by the CHP for erratic driving and leaving the scene of an accident, failed the roadside sobriety test, assaulted the CHP officer who stopped her, had to to be tazed, and was taken to jail in full hand and foot restraints. When the company refused to post bail for her she threatened to sue them.
She was then fired. Who says there is no God?


----------



## Gologit

RandyMac said:


> There is a difference between harassment and testing someone's mettle, the distinction has gotten blurred and in many cases, completely lost.
> Younger persons have been subjected to "sensitivity" indoctrination and are trained to be offended at almost anything. Old school banter is no longer recognized for what it is.
> 
> Some of you puppies get to the rigging, you are making nothing but shade standing around.



Remember a couple of weeks ago when you and I commented on a picture of a horribly cut tree in Big Trees in the Pictures forum? We made some rather graphic but accurate statements about the falling technique. The OP pulled the picture.
We were then taken to task by another member for being insensitive louts and that nobody would ever be willing to post any pictures for fear of being ridiculed.
The OP wasn't asking for advice and was obviously proud of his effort. He shouldn't have been.
I've thought long and hard about what we said. If I had to do it all over again I'd do it exactly the same way.


----------



## Gologit

slowp said:


> Note the term used, *degradation*. Some folks grew up with having to hear BS from a young age and shouldn't have to take it anymore. I was going to quit a job because I just couldn't handle it anymore, and luckily a transfer I put in for came through. Think boot camp with a mean horrible drill sergeant for years instead of weeks. That's my take. Sensitive? or just sick and tired of it? The line is blurry so it's best for the harassers to be careful.


 
You're right, the line is blurry. I've found that not cutting anybody special slack because of who or what they are is a good policy. If I hire a faller or a Cat skinner or a truck driver I don't care if they're male, female, black, brown, red, yellow or purple polka dotted. I don't care if they're straight, gay, crippled, socially disadvantaged, short, tall, heavy, thin, religious, agnostic, atheist, Republican, Democrat, or undecided.

I don't discriminate for any of the above listed things. By the same token, I don't give them special consideration either. All I care about is how well they can do the job they were hired for.


----------



## SliverPicker

I hear ya p.

Welcomed, sought-after and craved Degradation is nothing of the sort however.


----------



## treeslayer2003

well, i hope Jon took my post above for what it was......BS. that is what we call it really. yes ms. P is right and that is why i am carefull with folks i don't know.
maybe our occupation has more of this than others? or maybe guys like me that worked around older guys just can't understand the younguns......i think Randy nailed it really.


----------



## M.R.




----------



## HuskStihl

treeslayer2003 said:


> well, i hope Jon took my post above for what it was......BS. that is what we call it really. yes ms. P is right and that is why i am carefull with folks i don't know.
> maybe our occupation has more of this than others? or maybe guys like me that worked around older guys just can't understand the younguns......i think Randy nailed it really.


Y'all probably don't understand, 'cause I'm pretty serious on the internet, but BS was actually my native tongue. And Handsome Mike (young 'un), I humbly submit that I can take it as well as I can dish it out. I am constantly getting myself in trouble while speaking to the sarcastically challenged. Have in fact had my ass fired once for "not being serious"


----------



## RandyMac

I like big butts


----------



## Spotted Owl

There is a difference between this and spiteful meanness. You have to be good enough to read the other party. When you hit a button you have to know if it's time to stop, or get up high and pour it on. That depends on the person and sometimes even the day. Good banter doesn't cross the line, and EVERYBODY has a limit, it will shift now and then. With new people I have to throw out a test or two, with young people I throw out very weak tests. Now if it comes to light that I don't care for someone, I usually get real quiet around them, unless, they start lippin up. Sometimes just standing up to the meanies is what's needed, you have to judge the amount of stand up though, even if it costs you your job. I would rather be fired than quit over being berated by anyone.

Bob, yes. If you can do your job I don't care who or what you are. If you can't or won't, get out. If you don't prepare, it will increasingly grow in intensity, until the line is found, then it stays half a notch below the line. If you won't do your job and you can, that is a whole different animals, all bets are off and the games will begin. If I have to do your work as well as mine, you'll know with out a doubt that I am not happy about it. The only slack that is cut is to a body who has proven themselves worthy of that slack, and it rare that it will be needed.

Also if you throw it you better be more than able to take twice what you give, And be willing to stand behind what you spout off with when you say it to the wrong person. Ya gotta be able and willing to take your lumps. Don't slink away like a thief in the night when it goes bad, no matter what direction it goes.

Husky, poop germs is the upper end of mid way on the levels, things can and have gotten much more interesting. Just remember it only takes one phenomenal idea to top the best you have, then you put that in your banks for some later time. I will say I am happy, so far I have not been the guy who had a surprise in his gloves. If the day comes I will grind my teeth and take it, I won't enjoy that anymore than anyone I have given or seen it given too.



Owl


----------



## bitzer

Gologit said:


> Remember a couple of weeks ago when you and I commented on a picture of a horribly cut tree in Big Trees in the Pictures forum? We made some rather graphic but accurate statements about the falling technique. The OP pulled the picture.
> We were then taken to task by another member for being insensitive louts and that nobody would ever be willing to post any pictures for fear of being ridiculed.
> The OP wasn't asking for advice and was obviously proud of his effort. He shouldn't have been.
> I've thought long and hard about what we said. If I had to do it all over again I'd do it exactly the same way.


Where was I for that one? I love that kind of stuff.


----------



## bitzer

RandyMac said:


> I like big butts


Dammit Randy, flashin yer big wood again.


----------



## northmanlogging

Current day job (not fired yet...) most all of them are sarcasticelly chalanged, so I come of as an ******* most days, I'm OK with that though...

Had a guy at a former job that would dish the **** all day, greasing handles, stealing/hiding tools, but the second you did something to him his chest would puff up his bottom lip would curl over the bottom teeth and and he'd start pushing you around with his belly... ****ing hilarious... until you realized the dump son of a ***** really did want to kick yer ass then it was too funny to hold a straight face... he'd cry and complain to the boss who would tell him to clean his girl shorts out and get back to work...

Kinda miss that job....


----------



## Gologit

bitzer said:


> Where was I for that one? I love that kind of stuff.



http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/post-pictures-of-big-trees.25872/page-4

Start with post # 75 and scroll down. I thought our comments were pretty mild and meant in good fun. Lots of thin skin out there 'mongst those English.


----------



## bitzer

Gologit said:


> http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/post-pictures-of-big-trees.25872/page-4
> 
> Start with post # 75 and scroll down. I thought our comments were pretty mild and meant in good fun. Lots of thin skin out there 'mongst those English.


Yeah you guys really ruined the party.


----------



## BeatCJ

OK, what I want to know is where do they teach that? I didn't say anything then, but I can't see where there is ANY advantage to a sloping back cut?

I've slashed off little stuff with a sloping single cut, but only when it's small enough for me to push over if it tries to fall the other way, 3" to 6" or so.


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## bitzer

Its basic physics. The 45 degree angle of the backcut actually helps the tree jump forward and when wedging the wedges automatically slide closer to the notch with every swing. When you're done you have a cool place to sit and admire your manly prowess at defeating nature once again.


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## Gologit

bitzer said:


> Its basic physics. The 45 degree angle of the backcut actually helps the tree jump forward and when wedging the wedges automatically slide closer to the notch with every swing. When you're done you have a cool place to sit and admire your manly prowess at defeating nature once again.



Okay, now it makes sense. The slopping back cut is actually a slopping back rest for when you sit down. Okay, got it.


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## madhatte

Valid question, though: where _did_ people get the idea that the slopping back cut was a valid technique?


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## slowp

madhatte said:


> Valid question, though: where _did_ people get the idea that the slopping back cut was a valid technique?



Why the innernet, of course! Everybody can be an expert. On another forum, somebody linked to an article about the money class of the future would be plumbers, electricians and other trades, because few people wanted to go into a line of work that took physical effort and you might get dirty. This is on a Seattle based forum--think Microsoft, etc. The replies were that you could do your own wiring and plumbing by watching how to do it on Youtube. Kind of scary, that.


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## Gologit

Dunno. Looking at it with an ignorant eye and no real knowledge of how a tree responds to different cuts they must figure that the slope of the cut will help determine the direction of fall. I guess. I try not to dwell on it.
I do think, though, that if I was going to do something that had the potential to injure or kill me if I did it wrong, I'd study up on techniques first. That's just me. Old guy stuff, ya know.


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## HuskStihl

Pre AS I thought a steep back cut would keep the tree from falling over backwards. I showed up here a few years ago begging for advice after I found out that was not the case


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## paccity




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## Gologit

paccity said:


>




Yup, . See what you started? One simple typographical error and you created a phrase that perfectly describes a certain cut.


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## northmanlogging

Seen some once can't remember where, stump looked like a V notch taken out of the top... no idea how that ended up, but they kept at it for awhile.


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## slowp




----------



## Wannabe123

slowp said:


>



Hmmm


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## bitzer

The tree actually stalled out on his unintentional dutchman. Funny. If it was a chair prone tree it probably would have.

Two reasons why the slopping back cut exists- laziness and historical laziness. Its a lot easier to chop out a backcut on an angle with an axe.


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## bitzer

Oh and it only took five years to make falling pics a sticky.


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## Wannabe123

So I was right in catching the Dutchman! I am learning stuff. IN this dude's defense I am not sure he made a sloping back cut intentionally. Seemed he had a general idea what he SHOULD be doing, but blew the execution. I'll go with the laziness argument in this case.


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## Gologit

slowp said:


>




I don't know what kind of tree that was but it must not be prone to 'chairing.
As many times as the cutter walked behind it back and forth and as much time as he spent peering into the back cut I kept waiting for it to take his head off.
Did anybody see him ever look up at all?
Poor wedging too.
The slopping back cut speaks for itself.


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## madhatte

Level cuts, nice deep face, full PPE, good technique all around. I don't see what you lot are on about.


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## bitzer

Yeah he never looked up. If he would have he would have noticed he didn't need to wedge the tree when it was already leaning ahead. High five though. Style points there.


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## treeslayer2003

hard to tell from the vid but it looks like a dead poplar, if so its almost impossible to chair.
i think Jon hit it, they think it has to fall the other way.....iv had guys swear it has to.....................they just don't understand


----------



## Gologit

madhatte said:


> Level cuts, nice deep face, full PPE, good technique all around. I don't see what you lot are on about.


 I know, I know, just a bunch of overly critical logger types. We're sorry.












No, we're not.


----------



## dhskier2

Gologit said:


> I don't know what kind of tree that was but it must not be prone to 'chairing.





treeslayer2003 said:


> hard to tell from the vid but it looks like a dead poplar, if so its almost impossible to chair.



Looks like a dead AUS gum tree (eucalyptus)


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## Metals406

treeslayer2003 said:


> hard to tell from the vid but it looks like a dead poplar, if so its almost impossible to chair.
> i think Jon hit it, they think it has to fall the other way.....iv had guys swear it has to.....................they just don't understand


Being it's OZ, I'd reckon it's Gum.


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## northmanlogging

I'm a thinking that vid dude had bad shoulders, and couldn't hole the saw up very high, so more lazy than anything... looked like he at least had a clue and wasn't "trying" to make a slopping back cut, just not bothering to make it better. Of course the kerf dutch caused the stall more then anything, and its a damn good thing it wasn't chair prone...

Watched at like 2.5x and it still looked like he needed a sharper chain...


----------



## Wannabe123

Gologit said:


> I don't know what kind of tree that was but it must not be prone to 'chairing.
> As many times as the cutter walked behind it back and forth and as much time as he spent peering into the back cut I kept waiting for it to take his head off.
> Did anybody see him ever look up at all?
> Poor wedging too.
> The slopping back cut speaks for itself.



He did look up once, but probably to shake sawdust from his ANSI rejected felt safety headgear.


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## treeslayer2003

Metals406 said:


> Being it's OZ, I'd reckon it's Gum.


i didn't watch it, prolly missed that point


----------



## Gologit

treeslayer2003 said:


> i didn't watch it, prolly missed that point


 It's painful to watch.


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## KenJax Tree

Gologit said:


> Okay, now it makes sense. The slopping back cut is actually a slopping back rest for when you sit down. Okay, got it.


Just make sure you cut hinge wood off before you sit, you wouldn't want to impale your sphincter.


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## slowp

I fast forwarded it too. I was interested when I saw the stump he walked past at the beginning. It had a slopping back cut. I shouldn't have posted it. I have no skill as a ......faller.


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## Wayne68

That video should be used for instructional purposes. Everything NOT to do while attempting to fell a tree


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## BeatCJ

He looked up just before he started cutting, isn't once enough? I think he may have been relying on his buddies, they whistled when it started tipping. The way the branches came off on impact makes me wonder why one didn't come out from the vibration.



northmanlogging said:


> Watched at like 2.5x and it still looked like he needed a sharper chain...


Sure looked like awful fine dust the chain was throwing. I suspect it was some kind of hard, standing dead long enough for most of the bark to peel. Didn't look like it scuffed it much where he was knocking away the little bit of loose bark where he was dogging in. Made his saw bog down enough to stop the chain.



slowp said:


> I was interested when I saw the stump he walked past at the beginning. It had a slopping back cut.



You mean the sawtooth stump? More than a sloping backcut, looked like the tip of the bar was down on the faces and the back cut. A corkscrew stump. This one was WAY better than that.


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## Metals406

Gum is super hard stuff.


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## bnmc98

I like the belly high stump.... because you know there is no good wood below your belly button and everyone likes a major obstacle course on their land.


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## northmanlogging

I really prefer a nipple high stump, can really get some air off em then...


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## Skeans

Got to love a land owner that says cut them that high too


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## northmanlogging

Been there, they wanted to make it easy to pull them... they still haven't pulled them, been 5-6 years now...


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## hammerlogging

maybe eucalyptus. 

probably just a farmer helping a neighbor type of thing, not a pro's work.

I don't think he would say he was trying to be. probably never got taught much about timberfalling.


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## rwoods

HuskStihl said:


> *Pre AS I thought a steep back cut would keep the tree from falling over backwards. * I showed up here a few years ago begging for advice after I found out that was not the case



I'm sure there are more than two of us on AS that erroneously thought the sloping back cut was safer.



madhatte said:


> Valid question, though: *where did people get the idea that the slopping back cut was a valid technique?*



Can't say where it originated but I have seen a lot of it in the south. I can surmise that most chainsaw users don't fall many trees bigger than a plate and they carry their lazy and/or ignorant techniques to larger trees except they throw in a face cut because they seen them on larger trees - then they execute them like the fellow in the video with the straight cut extending past the angle cut resulting in a stall which they remedy by thinning or cutting off the hinge. Now please don't ask me why I would be so bold as to surmise such things.

I am convinced that there are many like me that missed the "hinge thing" some where along the way. Understanding there is such a thing with a real purpose before being killed or maimed was a big advance forward for this tenderfoot.




Gologit said:


> Dunno. Looking at it with an ignorant eye and no real knowledge of how a tree responds to different cuts they must figure that the slope of the cut will help determine the direction of fall. I guess. I try not to dwell on it.
> *I do think, though, that if I was going to do something that had the potential to injure or kill me if I did it wrong, I'd study up on techniques first. That's just me. Old guy stuff, ya know.*





hammerlogging said:


> maybe eucalyptus.
> 
> probably just a farmer helping a neighbor type of thing, not a pro's work.
> 
> I don't think he would say he was trying to be. *probably never got taught much about timberfalling*.



Not to take away from the old guy stuff, but I believe you likely knew from experience, training or observation that tree falling was dangerous to the faller. As a kid I was taught that logging was dangerous and my observations jived - a chainsaw can kill or maim you, a sawmill can do the same, a load or pile of logs can kill you as well as a pile of sawdust, and a falling tree can kill a bystander if you are not in a clear (20 years later an old logger on our place was killed watching his son fall a tree). When it came to the faller, I was taught that a faller can be killed by limbs from above or a top breaking or other trees that are connected - not a word about poor falling killing the faller. Despite a major barber chair which I ignorantly attributed to a defect in the tree I still didn't appreciate the danger. Perusing Bailey's catalog back in the early 80s which offered Dent's book and other instructional material is what first got my attention that there must be more to it than plowing through. Then a local HO was struck in the head cutting a tree in his backyard. Since then I have tried to correct my casual attitude and ignorance. BTW the HO lived about 20 years in an incoherent state in a nursing home - a reminder that something bad could happen to me as well.

Ron


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## hammerlogging

that's cute. nice lecture. 
so its not snobbery, its honest and valued critical analysis, eh? of someone who will never know, and might well be damn glad to get some advice rather than being sneered behind his back?
If he was posting as someone trying to teach, maybe, but really? back off.


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## Gologit

hammerlogging said:


> that's cute. nice lecture.
> so its not snobbery, its honest and valued critical analysis, eh? of someone who will never know, and might well be damn glad to get some advice rather than being sneered behind his back?
> If he was posting as someone trying to teach, maybe, but really? back off.


 
I see a lot more honest concern than snobbery. Granted, the way we choose to express ourselves is sometimes lacking in tact and we might focus more on trying to find remedies for poor technique but the underlying message is still very clear. If we see something that's dangerous, whether the exposure to the danger is intentional or not, don't we have the obligation to speak up?
And you're right, the guy cutting that tree will probably never see these posts or read our comments. We're not really doing him any good. But, what about other readers who may or may not know that the techniques the guy used were poor and could have gotten him hurt? I think they have a right to know.


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## hammerlogging

Yeah, I know, that's the counterpoint and you are correct. 

Its just so easy for people to critique, and it sounds more like a chance to give themselves another little pat on their own back. Not a lot of sport hunting the easy target.


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## Gologit

hammerlogging said:


> Yeah, I know, that's the counterpoint and you are correct.
> 
> Its just so easy for people to critique, and it sounds more like a chance to give themselves another little pat on their own back. Not a lot of sport hunting the easy target.


 
Good point and you're right, too. 
I'm glad video cameras weren't around when I was learning to fall. The constructive criticism I received was mostly in the form of "WTF was that!!??" and was usually followed by very clear instruction on how to do it right the next time.


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## treeslayer2003

see we didn't get that here, i just got kicked in the arse for bustin a tree and told not to do that again...........???????? my dad didn't rally understand why trees chaired, i didn't either. alot of thought and open minded listening has brought me to where i am now.


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## HuskStihl

hammerlogging said:


> Its just so easy for people to critique, and it sounds more like a chance to give themselves another little pat on their own back. Not a lot of sport hunting the easy target.



It is a bit depressing to be the easy target


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## BeatCJ

I had to learn a lot of things from "Well, that's not how I would have done that." Without any real instruction or coaching beforehand. Like anything else, you tend to learn how to teach from how you are taught. It's a hard path to change.


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## RandyMac

Gologit said:


> Good point and you're right, too.
> I'm glad video cameras weren't around when I was learning to fall. The constructive criticism I received was mostly in the form of "WTF was that!!??" and was usually followed by very clear instruction on how to do it right the next time.



"What do you have going here?"
"Are you sure you want to be doing that?"
"Oh crap!"
"I see what you did here, can you tell me why?"
"Maybe you ought to step back and have another look"

Ray was very polite


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## treeslayer2003

really? you was lucky lol.

what the @#$! ya do that for? ya xxx xxxx dumb xxx, i'll kick yer xxx ya do that xxxx again..........go check the xxx xxxx oil in the skidder again........dumb xxx


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## RandyMac

treeslayer2003 said:


> really? you was lucky lol.
> 
> what the @#$! ya do that for? ya xxx xxxx dumb xxx, i'll kick yer xxx ya do that xxxx again..........go check the xxx xxxx oil in the skidder again........dumb xxx


yes I was


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## bitzer

Here was my instruction from my uncle- "you cut the notch where you want it to go and cut the back until it goes. Then run like hell! I'll be back at the end of the day to see how you did."

I had 100 boxelders to cut around an old barnyard ranging in 10" to 48" and about 2 hours of time on a saw prior to that. A big one exploded (chaired/split) like lightning when I was just into the backcut. The wheels started to turn after that. Theres a little more to this then what I was led to believe. I figured out how to manipulate hinges and notches so I could swing em within a couple of days. I also bought a longer bar by the end of the week (24" vs 16"). That helped me stay a little farther from trouble. I pulled all those stumps so thankfully there is no evidence. I'm amazed how lucky I was.


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## Skeans

Next patch of timber 60 to 70 years old alder, some nice 5 foot cedar, and about 20 acres of fir in the corner ranging from 100 to 175 years old.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## tnlogger

What is gol cutting??? Been reading these pages all night and ain't figured it out.


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## 1270d

GOL is game of logging. Mostly its bore cutting, which most of the guys here look down on.


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## slowp

Skeans: Do you cut alder when the weather gets below freezing? Is the bigger alder as temperature sensitive?


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## treeslayer2003

1270d said:


> GOL is game of logging. Mostly its bore cutting, which most of the guys here look down on.


IDK about that 1270, i just find it awkward feeling.........everybody to his own.


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## northmanlogging

Gol= boring the back cut, generally with a saw that is to small or bar that is too short. Not necessarily looked down on, just a waste of time on most timber, the game of logging mentality is that all trees need bored period, they don't, there are other more productive methods, some are safer, some are easier to steer with.

Ms P, Alders are a little more brittle when frozen, but are lighter on account of not having the sap up, its a trade off. I reality they are just brittle and chair prone all the damn time. Veneer buyers are going nucking futs over them right now, anything over 12" and straight paying close to ceder prices.


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## treeslayer2003

i didn't realize your alder veneered.........any body got any pics of the wood? i'm curios


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## BeatCJ

Common inexpensive hardwood, my kitchen cabinets are alder.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Alder+Veneer+Images


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## treeslayer2003

huh, looks kina like birch to me. nuthin wrong with it. glad y'all can market it well, i guess i always thought it was like low grade.


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## northmanlogging

Used to be low grade... fire wood etc...

Then someone noticed it can be stained to look like damn near anything... and its fairly hard when dry... Poof alder market.

Does look a little like birch, different bark though, same white wood though. Our alders will stain red after a few days, usually on the butts, probably a scientific reason for this couldn't tell ya why.


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## tnlogger

Well I don't mind doing a straight through back cut on certain species but on certain species and rough ground I wouldn't dare. But I'm not so closed minded I cant learn from others techniques and put them to use were I cut. Just sayin


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## treeslayer2003

tn logger, i was a straight up stump jumper at one time. in the past few years i have cut just about any and all with directional falling techniqes. it still amazes me how it works so well.............that said, if you do try some, try it on easy sticks untill your comfortable. i did put my own spin on some things bot i always have a face and proper hinge now.
i never even knew about GOL either, i tried it a few times. as you said, we never stop learning if we only listen and think.


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## tnlogger

Well said and I started out stump jumping. I didnt have nobody teach me how to cut timber. Really! My dad farms and cut his own timber on his own land when it needed it. That being said he just cut it anyway to get it on the ground. I fell into logging. I was a electrical teacher in a state penatraiary. My grandpa had a farm he bought in 1955 and had never cut a stick on it, bad wind storm took a bunch down and he tryed to get a local logger to cut it.Guy kept telling him ill be there and never came. So I talked my dad into helping me and lets cut it. So we did. Just the blow down to start with. I fell in love with logging. Then I got another feller wanted me to cut some for him and another and the rest is history. I've been logging full time now for bout five years. With that said I bought got killed serval times stump jumping big timber. So after being around the mill and other logger I came to learn bout hinge cutting, still nobody came to the woods and showed me how so I learned on my own and yes I do bore some and some I don't but I will say that hinge cutting is the safest and only way to cut timber period. Whether u straight back cut or bore amd leave a hinge. Some trees don't need it someI think do. Bar size is like vehicle prefrence everybody's got one. I like to run a bar long enough that if I do bore it goes all the way through and I'm not running around the tree fifty times but to each there own. However u cut the most important is u go home to ur family at the end of the day alive. Im still learning, but I'm still in love. Best thing I ever did as far as work is concerned is start logging I ain't rich and won't never be but I start my day everyday looking forward to going to work


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## Skeans

The bigger alder can be temperature sensitive just like anything. That being said I've never been in a patch of it when it's frozen up, now fir I have and noticed they like to chair out more. Also only being about five miles off the Columbia River we don't get a ton of freezing weather or days and days of it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Skeans

tnlogger said:


> Well said and I started out stump jumping. I didnt have nobody teach me how to cut timber. Really! My dad farms and cut his own timber on his own land when it needed it. That being said he just cut it anyway to get it on the ground. I fell into logging. I was a electrical teacher in a state penatraiary. My grandpa had a farm he bought in 1955 and had never cut a stick on it, bad wind storm took a bunch down and he tryed to get a local logger to cut it.Guy kept telling him ill be there and never came. So I talked my dad into helping me and lets cut it. So we did. Just the blow down to start with. I fell in love with logging. Then I got another feller wanted me to cut some for him and another and the rest is history. I've been logging full time now for bout five years. With that said I bought got killed serval times stump jumping big timber. So after being around the mill and other logger I came to learn bout hinge cutting, still nobody came to the woods and showed me how so I learned on my own and yes I do bore some and some I don't but I will say that hinge cutting is the safest and only way to cut timber period. Whether u straight back cut or bore amd leave a hinge. Some trees don't need it someI think do. Bar size is like vehicle prefrence everybody's got one. I like to run a bar long enough that if I do bore it goes all the way through and I'm not running around the tree fifty times but to each there own. However u cut the most important is u go home to ur family at the end of the day alive. Im still learning, but I'm still in love. Best thing I ever did as far as work is concerned is start logging I ain't rich and won't never be but I start my day everyday looking forward to going to work


Over here there's a lot of a time a 32" bar is our short bars, and running a bar long enough doesn't happen much because of weight or other factors. Personally I hate carrying anything longer then a 42" bar with the extra weight.


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## tnlogger

Yea I cut with a 24 to 28 (mostly 24). The idea of packing a 32 or 36 up and down these steep hills, is for the birds to me. Not to mention sharpening the thing. But I can see where on y'alls side of the world 24 to 28 would be useless.


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## Skeans

I've ran and used a 28 some but it doesn't feel right and isn't tip heavy enough for me to bucking and bumping knots.


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## tnlogger

Do u run skip or full comp??


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## Skeans

Semi skip chisel chains, I hate grinding full comp


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## RandyMac

puppies


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## treeslayer2003

tnlogger said:


> Yea I cut with a 24 to 28 (mostly 24). The idea of packing a 32 or 36 up and down these steep hills, is for the birds to me. Not to mention sharpening the thing. But I can see where on y'alls side of the world 24 to 28 would be useless.


32 is not much more than a 28.........in big timber, even limbing seems easier to me with a 32. once ya get used to packing with the bar on your shoulder, it seems wieghtless.
do you not cut much more than 30" on the stump? i figure y'all got bigger sticks than we do.....


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## treeslayer2003

RandyMac said:


> puppies


yip yip yip


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## Spotted Owl

32's and 36's, also easier on your back by the end of the day. Not nearly as much time half way hunkered over, liming and bucking. That half way bend is a killer, least wise it is for me. Steep is steep no matter what part of the country you and rooted in. An extra 12" of bar and chain shouldn't be a matter of anything, until you start getting into 60+ bars. 

I don't have much dealings with hardwoods, but a semi comp chain up to 36 is about right for our soft stuff. 42 and up needs full skip. The redwood guys may need the full skip a shorter bars, not much dealings with them either. Put a file to that chain every five trees or so, hit it before it gets bad, maintenance filing is much more enjoyable that bringing a chain back from the dead.

Try a 32 for 3 weeks. It'll take that long to get a good honest opinion of something new and learn the tricks it will talk to wave it around. 



Owl


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## treeslayer2003

thats true, a day or two ain't enough.


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## bitzer

Yep been running a 32"er for 2.5 years in hardwood. I would never go back. Theres 10 less teeth in a 32" full skip loop than a 24" full comp loop. I run full skip. Its the cats ass.

In the hills and big timber is where a long bar really shines. Just ask Hammer.


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## HuskStihl

JGX baby. If'n ya haven't tried it, you should. Just be prepared to give the cutters and rakers a swipe prior to use.


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## treeslayer2003

bitzer said:


> Yep been running a 32"er for 2.5 years in hardwood. I would never go back. Theres 10 less teeth in a 32" full skip loop than a 24" full comp loop. I run full skip. Its the cats ass.
> 
> In the hills and big timber is where a long bar really shines. Just ask Hammer.


no hills but big trees...........a 36 is nice as well. i don't think i can tote what it would take to run more bar in this wood lol.

i only buy full skip for every size i own..........full comp has enough teeth to make two chains lol


----------



## northmanlogging

generally a 32 does every thing I need, on more trees than is wise its a little short, but not so bad as to be a hinderance, I prefer it for limbing, as the 36 is a little long, I got short legs and long arms...

When I do need a 36 its usually out gunned too... but its marginally better then dragging around the wiggle stick of a 42...

Run full skip on nearly everything, I do have a 20" loop I'll throw on the 066 with an 8 pin sprocket for the yearly firewood tango... 3 cords cut in an hour and a half and only 2 tanks of gas...


----------



## tnlogger

All they offer here were I buy chains is semi skip I've never ran full skip, is it that much better than semi skip.


----------



## Spotted Owl

No. 

Semi skip'll do you just fine unless you get into big stuff. If you normally run a 24, you'd be fine up to 32 with semi. 

Keep your oiler pumping maxed out, keep your chain sharp, you'll be just fine. Like the guy who started this thread, Burvol, said, the best mod you can do to your saw is a sharp chain and keep it sharp.



Owl


----------



## treeslayer2003

amen, and the longer ya go, sharp becomes even more important. the more i fool around with the bevel file, the more i wonder were the limit is.


----------



## tnlogger

Glad u mentioned that treeslayer, since he brought it up, how do u pros file, I just use round file but would love to learn how to square file??


----------



## mdavlee

treeslayer2003 said:


> amen, and the longer ya go, sharp becomes even more important. the more i fool around with the bevel file, the more i wonder were the limit is.


There's a point of chain life vs speed. You can make a real fast cutting chain that if you're tree length cutting might work if it last 2 tanks before it's wood dull. You can make it last in the harder woods with more blunt angles.


----------



## northmanlogging

There are some fine vids on You tube...

Square filing isn't so bad, biggest thing is to keep the corner in the corner and file it backwards, at a downward angle... Wasn't very good at hand filing square, ended up getting an old simington grinder... watch your angles they are very important, make both sides match, and clean out the gullets every now and then with a round file, chips get packed in there and slow the whole works down.

I've tried it with both the "flat" and the more triangle files, bout the same really, seems like the triangle held up better, just keep in mind that your trying to file three things with every swipe, side plate, top plate, and keep a sharp corner, getting the corner off one way or the other has a huge effect on the way it cuts, and how long it stays sharp.

Round file is pretty cut and dried, just shove it through with alittle back pressure and stop worrying.


----------



## treeslayer2003

mdavlee said:


> There's a point of chain life vs speed. You can make a real fast cutting chain that if you're tree length cutting might work if it last 2 tanks before it's wood dull. You can make it last in the harder woods with more blunt angles.


thats prolly about where i am at here.......cuts like mad for about 1 load [8 trees] then im fileing again.


tnlogger said:


> Glad u mentioned that treeslayer, since he brought it up, how do u pros file, I just use round file but would love to learn how to square file??


i am still new to square fileing........if you get it right you'll love it and not want to go back. if ya get it wrong, you'll want to forget the whole thing lol.
i still use round on my topping and landing saws, just to much dirt to be useing square for that. there are tricks to round as well and a really good round file is a nice cutting chain.


----------



## Spotted Owl

I will be the first to admit, at square filing, I flat out stink. I can gimp through if there isn't much of the day left. Start the day with fresh chain and have some spares in your bag. Touch up I can do some, more than that I swap and get to work. Working in rocky nasty dirty conditions, round file is the way to go, good sharp round doesn't lag to far behind fresh square. It will last better also.



Owl


----------



## treeslayer2003

northmanlogging said:


> There are some fine vids on You tube...
> 
> Square filing isn't so bad, biggest thing is to keep the corner in the corner and file it backwards, at a downward angle... Wasn't very good at hand filing square, ended up getting an old simington grinder... watch your angles they are very important, make both sides match, and clean out the gullets every now and then with a round file, chips get packed in there and slow the whole works down.
> 
> I've tried it with both the "flat" and the more triangle files, bout the same really, seems like the triangle held up better, just keep in mind that your trying to file three things with every swipe, side plate, top plate, and keep a sharp corner, getting the corner off one way or the other has a huge effect on the way it cuts, and how long it stays sharp.
> 
> Round file is pretty cut and dried, just shove it through with alittle back pressure and stop worrying.


i couldn't do much with the triangle file.......wound up with beaks that dulled fast. i like the save edge bevel file best. i had some vallorbe with straight across teeth, they didn't last long at all.


----------



## treeslayer2003

Spotted Owl said:


> I will be the first to admit, at square filing, I flat out stink. I can gimp through if there isn't much of the day left. Start the day with fresh chain and have some spares in your bag. Touch up I can do some, more than that I swap and get to work. Working in rocky nasty dirty conditions, round file is the way to go, good sharp round doesn't lag to far behind fresh square. It will last better also.
> 
> 
> 
> Owl


i couldn't do it at all untill i figured out i couldn't see the corner with out reading glasses...........................i gotta reniew mah licsence this year and go to eye doc first......oh joy.....


----------



## northmanlogging

The grinder is a gods send... 5-10 minutes to a really ****ing sharp chain, plus a few if'n I gotta hit the riders, more for the gullets, but the gullets and riders only need hit every third sharpening or so.

Carry an extra in my wedge pouch if I'm going to be more then a casual walk to the crummy, but usually get a day to a chain.


----------



## joesawer

Get yourself a good grinder. They are about the same price as a good saw but will last a lifetime (if no one steals it). It will change your whole career as a timber faller. 
When cutting production I usually start with a sharp chain on my saw and six in my pack.
I rarely have needed six but just don't want to run out.
Just as soon as it starts to slow down I change it. This really increases production and reduces fatigue and since you are not even pushing a little bit on the saw reduces bar wear and hitting the ground.
Since you didn't rock your chain it sharpens fast with just a touch of the stone.
Since it sharpens fast you won't mind sharpening full comp chain so your saw will cut faster so you can make more money.
I used to run full skip and an 8 tooth drive sprocket. Now I cut faster with full comp and 7 tooth sprocket. With less bar wear, especially the tip.


----------



## madhatte

I sure do wish there was a square grinder available at a reasonable price. With Silvey gone, even the Simingtons are about a grand a pop now, and they're clearly not as nice a machine. Oregon are really doing themselves a disservice selling the chain but no grinder.


----------



## bitzer

In the softer hardwoods like ash, soft maple, and basswood full comp works fine, but when you're trying to chase the hinge on an oak or hard maple its pretty easy to bind it up when running longer bar lengths.


----------



## bitzer

madhatte said:


> I sure do wish there was a square grinder available at a reasonable price. With Silvey gone, even the Simingtons are about a grand a pop now, and they're clearly not as nice a machine. Oregon are really doing themselves a disservice selling the chain but no grinder.


I agree! You wana go half in on a grinder? I'll sharpen six months worth of chain then ship it to you for the other half of the year.


----------



## Skeans

Wonder if the patents are up on the Silvey products are up if so I've got a pro sharp with the cable fix that has been done we could get specs off of.


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## 1270d

Cut some good pine today. This was most of one tree


----------



## Metals406

Skeans said:


> Wonder if the patents are up on the Silvey products are up if so I've got a pro sharp with the cable fix that has been done we could get specs off of.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It wouldn't matter if you copied any of the grinders fir yourself. I bet it would be cost prohibitive though.

A guys better off watching CL for a used one.


----------



## Skeans

Could try at the very least the prices are getting nuts of everything without the price of logs going up with what they cost at the same time. Mine was bought by my dad picked up at the oregon logging show for 1200 new.


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## northmanlogging

Taint much to em, if a guy wanted to build one for hisself, after looking at mine a little while it could probably be reproduced with some basic welding skills and a bench top mill, or with some exter talent just a drill press. 

Steel the motor off a cheapo round grinder, mount it vertical and have at.


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## Skeans

The main thing is if Jack still had the patents out for them or not.


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## northmanlogging

no need to worry as long as you don't go and start selling them...

From what I understand silvey went TU cause they had trouble getting the castings done for a decent cost, original supplier closed or something.


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## Skeans

When my pro sharp Jack said he was retiring they were in their late 60's from what I saw. I'd love to see others have the same quality, same as the jacks that the guy is making. 


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## bitzer

1270d said:


> Cut some good pine today. This was most of one tree


Looks like a good one! If ya ever get into any big pine sticks and ya need a hand let me know! I could be there in 5-6 hours! I've never cut a decent one. 

The soft maple swamp I'm cuttin right now is goin to mush. This weather is ******** down here. How's it going up there?


----------



## 1270d

Weathers prime. Been having a cold snap now and then to keep things tight, otherwise in the teens. Today was real nice, blue sky frosty tops and the whole bit. Perfect day for a processor operator to leave his perch and saw oversize wood.


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## 1270d

There was a half dozen or more the forwarder couldn't load...


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## bitzer

Thats awesome! Its been hovering around freezing here. Not good enough. It was mid 30s last weekend and its going to be the same this weekend. Just figures- big timber, short skid, things are really clicking and the weather doesn't wanna hold.


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## tnlogger

What kinda of grinder do u recommend? Not the best but a good one . I like one I could sharpening my sawbuck chains with.


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## mdavlee

northmanlogging said:


> no need to worry as long as you don't go and start selling them...
> 
> From what I understand silvey went TU cause they had trouble getting the castings done for a decent cost, original supplier closed or something.


When I talked with Madsens they said Silvey wouldn't buy castings from overseas. To get the cost back down to keep grinder prices from doubling or more they would have to buy 10k units and they didn't think the industry would support it in 20 years.


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## madhatte

bitzer said:


> I agree! You wana go half in on a grinder? I'll sharpen six months worth of chain then ship it to you for the other half of the year.



Tempting, but I'm way too much of a slacker to deal with shipping. 



mdavlee said:


> When I talked with Madsens they said Silvey wouldn't buy castings from overseas. To get the cost back down to keep grinder prices from doubling or more they would have to buy 10k units and they didn't think the industry would support it in 20 years.



That is exactly the story I got from them. I wonder, though, how much needs to be cast? Gets me thinking about 3-D printing again. I bet the frame could be printed, the small fine bits CNC'd, and motor and light sourced off-the-shelf. That would leave a bunch of hardware and wiring to figure out. Somebody more clever than me should really get on this because surely there is a market for it.


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## treeslayer2003

bitzer said:


> Thats awesome! Its been hovering around freezing here. Not good enough. It was mid 30s last weekend and its going to be the same this weekend. Just figures- big timber, short skid, things are really clicking and the weather doesn't wanna hold.


same here......freeze, thaw, repeat.........i really wanted to move the loader today......damned if i will rut up a good road the first day on a new job.


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## northmanlogging

madhatte said:


> Tempting, but I'm way too much of a slacker to deal with shipping.
> 
> 
> 
> That is exactly the story I got from them. I wonder, though, how much needs to be cast? Gets me thinking about 3-D printing again. I bet the frame could be printed, the small fine bits CNC'd, and motor and light sourced off-the-shelf. That would leave a bunch of hardware and wiring to figure out. Somebody more clever than me should really get on this because surely there is a market for it.




Motors is cheap, wiring is as simple as a three way toggle, baldor buffers will work in either direction there is a dingle thingy inside em to control direction, just ad a second and wire it backwards. Could even get fancy and have a reaostat to control speed... or just ****ing cheat and buy the motor with said thingys attached... 

The cast bits could be machined from billet rather than cast, cost would be more then cast per unit, but not needing 10,000 pieces to cover set up kinda helps (more then a little...). Also using any old aluminum would help with cost rather then getting fancy with certified stuff (paper work costs more money... lots more). By the way sand casting is dirt ****ing cheap, the tooling is bits of wood, they charge an assload cause there isn't really any competition and they can then ***** about there jobs going overseas... any monkey with a weed dragon some spare time, play ground sand, betonite and some motor oil can make sand castings... (I'll stop that rant now...)

The rest is off the shelf parts at fastener supply houses, or any industrial supply worth its name (diamond dressers etc.)

All told probably $3-400 in material, and another $3-400 in man hours... once it was proven and rolling, turn around with a modest markup, badda bing yer in business...

after all there are only like 8-9 machined bits, and a handfull of bolts, stuck on top of a malleable steel stand... **** the light is 10 bucks at any hardware store.

Anyway someone else needs to jump on this I'm trying to stay in the woods...


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## Gypo Logger

I noticed this thread is in need of some real lumberjacks, so I thought I'd show you how a flat lander does it. Lol
John


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## bitzer

Nice work Jon, you outta put something on yer head tho. Oh and lumberjacks use axes and oxes.


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## Skeans

From the first day of cutting last Friday I'll get a few more when I get a change, been working on my CDL.


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## bitzer

That sure looks like a tangle. I kind of like all the moss you guys have over there. Nice saw.


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## Skeans

All shovel logged for a landing so it not a huge deal, drop the stuff that's leaning the same then back and forth.


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## Gypo Logger

bitzer said:


> Nice work Jon, you outta put something on yer head tho. Oh and lumberjacks use axes and oxes.


You're so right! No sence, no feeling!


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## Skeans

bitzer said:


> That sure looks like a tangle. I kind of like all the moss you guys have over there. Nice saw.


All of that is the vine maple stuff grows like weeds and far as I know there's no real use for it either.


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## slowp

Skeans said:


> All of that is the vine maple stuff grows like weeds and far as I know there's no real use for it either.



You can buy vine maple at nurseries to plant in your yard. It does provide entertainment and excitement sometimes. I was amazed at the unanticipated launching of a block of firewood I cut. I missed one of the vine maple spring poles that was well hidden in the ferns. The launch was impressive.


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## Cedarkerf

slowp said:


> You can buy vine maple at nurseries to plant in your yard. It does provide entertainment and excitement sometimes. I was amazed at the unanticipated launching of a block of firewood I cut. I missed one of the vine maple spring poles that was well hidden in the ferns. The launch was impressive.


Itll chatter your teeth when cutting like you said can get quite entertaining.


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## northmanlogging

Viney maples will sping up and slap a guy around inside the skidder cab too. Or if cut wrong with a log on top they can put a dent in yer shiny new hat, among other things.

They are good for kids to make bows out of... just need a bit of twine and a pocket knife.


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## Skeans

Also a damn hot fire for outside.


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## BeatCJ

Skeans said:


> All of that is the vine maple stuff grows like weeds and far as I know there's no real use for it either.


I watched a show where a guy was using it for carved bows, they were pretty amazing. I use it for wood for my smoker, too. The right size, easy to peel, plenty of it around.


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## Metals406

Skeans said:


> All of that is the vine maple stuff grows like weeds and far as I know there's no real use for it either.


Vine Maple is used to snag clothing, bars, & piss off timber fallers.

Duh

[emoji6]


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## Skeans

You forgot about bust out teeth when it snaps back, and make you trip.


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## Knobby57

slowp said:


>



Ok one of you SOB's owes me 12 minutes of my life back . I'm upset with myself for watching the entire thing . We are all now collectively dumber having watched this . ..... This video should have a FDA warning label that it may kill brain cells !!! 
That being said last Sumer a local homeowner was killed dropping trees in his back yard . The photo in the paper showed the tree stump. Yup a sloping back cut .. 
On another note I'm sure if you calmly told that fella in the vid that he is playing with fire , he would not take it to heart . Now if you called him a retarded idiot and asking what the f he thinks he is doing , he may take the warning more seriously . Saying nothing if it's not going to be nice does not apply to safety . 


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## northmanlogging

Viney maples are good for throwing chains too...


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## Cedarkerf

northmanlogging said:


> Viney maples are good for throwing chains too...


Ive even bent a chain in that stuff


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## treeslayer2003

good bad and ugly


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## treeslayer2003

6 count load


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## treeslayer2003

these blown overs are heavy as lead and a sob to deal with



that one on the left with no bark was a blow over. they are solid, im gonna sell um for sumthin.


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## tnlogger

Pretty nice red oak from today


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## tnlogger




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## treeslayer2003

tnlogger said:


> View attachment 400778


will you get a veneer log price on that?


----------



## tnlogger

No but will fetch more than best 1 grade red oak. If u look its got a couple small spots in it. Big stick though fetch a good amount the way it is.


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## coltont

That big red oak can really tend to soak up ground mineral.


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## treeslayer2003

yep, lotta feet in it. it would be a matt log here


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## tnlogger

Whats a matt log??


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## coltont

A low grade log they saw boards out of and bolt them together to form kind of a bridge. They work good for places with very hydric soil.


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## tnlogger

Dang that's what they would use a log like this for there!!!! Glad I ain't there that log will bring 1.20 to 1.25 here so they 'll bet about 600 dollars or more in that butt log.


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## coltont

They buy matt logs by weight


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## coltont

I think it ranges from 30 some too 50 some $$ a ton here


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## treeslayer2003

350 and up per thousand.........big matt logs bring more. crane matts are high. well, if you break it down, a load of that would be what? 6-7 trees........it almost worth the same as a matt. gotta market what ya got


----------



## tnlogger

Well I guess so.... a 30 ton load of mat logs at 50 a ton bring y'all 1500 a 5000 ft load of logs like that here bring ya 4200 to 5200 weird how markets are so different from there to here huh


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## treeslayer2003

yeah, that log is to rough for that kinda money here......less it cleans up alot if ya butt it off. you want to get ya feelins hurt, talk to some of the northern guys lol. they get crazy money for little logs.


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## tnlogger

So what up with the tree length poplar logs do they buck em at the mill or what??


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## tnlogger

Yea ill post a pic of it tomorrow it's laying at the boom awaiting the ride to the mill, it cleaned up slick, what funny is u ain't really gotta clean much up right now as much mud as we got just drag em a couple hundred yards and u couldn't find a knot with magnifying glass!!


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## treeslayer2003

they go to an exporter, he will get about 5 grades out of that load. they around 50' long. i tried just selling butts and tops, it averages out better this way. i don't get that impressive butt log load but i don't get any crappy saw logs load either.


----------



## treeslayer2003

tnlogger said:


> Yea ill post a pic of it tomorrow it's laying at the boom awaiting the ride to the mill, it cleaned up slick, what funny is u ain't really gotta clean much up right now as much mud as we got just drag em a couple hundred yards and u couldn't find a knot with magnifying glass!!


lol, yea i wish it just decide to either stay froze or go ahead stay warm so it dry. this freeze thaw cycle evey day is for the birds.


----------



## tnlogger

I fine it neat logging is so different bout anywhere u go if I was to haul in tree lenght logs I doubt they would unload me at the mill.


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## tnlogger

treeslayer2003 said:


> lol, yea i wish it just decide to either stay froze or go ahead stay warm so it dry. this freeze thaw cycle evey day is for the birds.


Yea I hear ya Its plain nasty here and supposed to snow tonight!


----------



## treeslayer2003

why ya think i got that live heel loader? lol
y'all use straight trucks?


----------



## tnlogger

treeslayer2003 said:


> why ya think i got that live heel loader? lol
> y'all use straight trucks?


Both I ve got one straight truck and a semi with a 3 bunk trailer. We use the straight truck when we can't get in with the semi.


----------



## Skeans

Why don't you guys run Turkey racks instead of hay rack trailers?


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## treeslayer2003

Skeans said:


> Why don't you guys run Turkey racks instead of hay rack trailers?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


????? its a pole trailer


----------



## Skeans

Turkey rack sits in the bunk of a standard long logger for doing short wood, I just meant instead of all the fifth wheel since they don't follow you as well.


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## Skeans

How far out are you guys stretching out over there with your pole reaches?


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## treeslayer2003

my trailer will go to 75'........can't get around that way. mostly i cut to 42 and 52'


----------



## treeslayer2003




----------



## treeslayer2003

Skeans said:


> Turkey rack sits in the bunk of a standard long logger for doing short wood, I just meant instead of all the fifth wheel since they don't follow you as well.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


not sure im getting your terminolgy....pics?
i always wondered how exactly y'alls trailer works..........looks like it wouldn't turn........two pivot points looks like in the few pics i seen.


----------



## Skeans

West coast short pole trailer.


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## treeslayer2003

Skeans said:


> West coast short pole trailer.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


dot won't allow that here any more
years ago we had just a tandem with a bunk and a bunk on the fifth, trees the frame. them guys took 90' pileing to NY
there is two pivot points!


----------



## Skeans

The bunks are bolted to the frame, the bunks on the truck and trailer both pivot. Inside the reach is what's called a compensator to all extension well turn. I'll look and see if I have a picture of the turkey racks.


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## Skeans

That's a turkey rack.


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## Skeans

The reaches here are connected with a pintle hitch, safety chains, and have a lot of different length and styles that are available.


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## treeslayer2003

Skeans said:


> The bunks are bolted to the frame, the bunks on the truck and trailer both pivot. Inside the reach is what's called a compensator to all extension well turn. I'll look and see if I have a picture of the turkey racks.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


ah, the bunk on the trailer pivots.........makes more sense now


----------



## coltont

Nice red oak from today


----------



## treeslayer2003

Skeans said:


> That's a turkey rack.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


ah, to heavy here. we don't get any overage for more axles. 80'000 is it and better all be in the right places.


----------



## treeslayer2003

coltont said:


> Nice red oak from today


nice......at least one fat one there


----------



## Skeans

That'd be 98,000 lbs if I remember right, we run 80,000 lbs


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## coltont

There's probably 15 loads in that like it's beside it's just hard to see it in the picture . there's a bunch of big timbrr on this sale


----------



## Skeans

Some jack work to keep a good leaner out of a stand of just thinned reprod, all was done Tuesday or Wednesday our weather over here hasn't exactly worked with us.


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## BeatCJ

Pretty nice Cedars, not too much taper.


----------



## Skeans

No most of it hasn't had a ton, there's still more to come out once the wind break all of this is coming off our own farm


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## treeslayer2003

Skeans said:


> Some jack work to keep a good leaner out of a stand of just thinned reprod, all was done Tuesday or Wednesday our weather over here hasn't exactly worked with us.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


are they blocked a little or just stepped?


----------



## Cedarkerf

BeatCJ said:


> Pretty nice Cedars, not too much taper.


And solid all the way thru


----------



## Skeans

treeslayer2003 said:


> are they blocked a little or just stepped?


Just a small step between the face and back cut.


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## Skeans

treeslayer2003 said:


> are they blocked a little or just stepped?


Just a small step between the face and back cut.


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## Skeans

Cedarkerf said:


> And solid all the way thru


There's been a few that have had some small rot holes, and one 6 footer that the first 24' were a shell so all in all it hasn't been too bad of a job.


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## Skeans

Cedarkerf said:


> And solid all the way thru


There's been a few that have had some small rot holes, and one 6 footer that the first 24' were a shell so all in all it hasn't been too bad of a job.


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## 1270d

This is a nice load around here


----------



## SliverPicker

Michigan is the king as far as loads go. All the other parts of the union are just half-load states.


----------



## Skeans

I'd love to be able to run all the axles but with all the rain the roads get soft.


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## 1270d

the 11 axle rig is pretty standard here. Guys set them up different ways, but mostly 5 axle pup and 6 on the truck. Some tri drives but mostly duals with tags and pushers. 

That load is just shy of 12000 ft.


----------



## bitzer

That load is ****in nuts 1270! You weren't shittn.

Nice pics Colton and Skeans!

Hey Mike you guys have trouble with the Columbian timber beatle?


----------



## BeatCJ

Not really falling, but from a friends FB, September 1972 Western Timber Industry Magazine.


----------



## 1270d

thats awsome! I dont think the Aussies even pull trains like that.


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## BeatCJ

I've heard stories from locals about the loads they used to haul around here, MOSTLY offroad. 160,000lbs was pretty common on the scales. I'm not a local, only lived here 32 years, still a newcomer.


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## treeslayer2003

bitzer said:


> That load is ****in nuts 1270! You weren't shittn.
> 
> Nice pics Colton and Skeans!
> 
> Hey Mike you guys have trouble with the Columbian timber beatle?


????? what is this new vermin? what does it attack?


----------



## 1270d

Legal limit here is 164000 with 7 axle truck and 4 axle pup. as you can imagine lots of guys haul a good bit over that. heaviest Ive heard of, besides the train style like BeatCJ posted, was a michigan load that was supposed to scale over 240k. I have cut winter larch that looked like a normal sized load but grossed over 200k


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## Metals406

BeatCJ said:


> Not really falling, but from a friends FB, September 1972 Western Timber Industry Magazine.
> 
> View attachment 401901


My neck of the woods -- I'm west of Kalispell.

There's video of that load.


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## Metals406




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## 1270d

Thanks for posting that metals, and CJ.


----------



## bitzer

treeslayer2003 said:


> ????? what is this new vermin? what does it attack?


 

Up here it only seems to occur in swamp soft maple. The bug emerges in spring and by summer time the wound is healed over. The log could look beautiful standing, but when you cut it it looks like this. My mill has been automatically downgrading any log with any sign of it to a #3. They don't have a market for it as most mills up here don't. The lumber acutally looks pretty cool, but it just doesn't go on the open market. Its been around up here for 10-15 years. When it was first found I heard some mills lost several 100 thousand dollars in standing timber value. I've read that down south its more prevalent in other species, like oak, hard maple, yellow poplar, beech, etc. It likes it warm and wet and can have three life cycles a year in favorable conditions. I'm guessing our season is too short for that.


----------



## treeslayer2003

i'v seen maple look like that but that normal here. i sold a soft/swamp maple for veneer for the first time year, its only ever been a pallet log here untill now. it was snow white.
i never seen any thing bother a tulip poplar here. thats one reason i am big on poplar regen when it will. never seen that in oak, but we got plenty other stuff killing it. red oak is in trouble here from blight or what ever they wanna call it now.
surprisingly the white oak has rebounded nicely from the gypsy moth out break 25 years ago. i thought it was doomed. what ever is killing the reds don't seem to effect the white nearly as bad.
i still think aggressive managment is the best tool to best thwart all this stuff, over mature trees seem to be affected the worst and there is seldom young timber in a very mature stand.
the stands that we managed with the landowners years ago are now nicely stair stepped and don't seem to have these problems. the proof is in the puddding whether any one pays attention or not is another story.


----------



## bitzer

One of yer poplar butts had a similar flare from the heart, thats why I asked. We have oak wilt here too. In the sandy counties it spreads the easiest. No cutting in certain counties from April 1st to July 15th (sap hardens). Trees get infected by the fungus blowing onto an open wound and then through root grafts. From fresh stumps it will get into the roots too. Red oak can die in weeks. Entire stands can be wiped out. I've done a bunch of standing dead harvests and peripheral clear cuts. The white oak are more resistant, but not immune. Yeah it sucks. You guys have EAB there yet or the beech blight? I've seen quite a few hard maple decline for some reason too. A guys got to wonder what the hell is going to be left in 50 years.


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## 1270d

Bitzer, the hard maple decline you're seeing is what we call Maple Dieback. Its quietly destroying our woods up here. Lots of folks have their head in the sand about it. We do quite a bit of clearcutting areas that have it and you can imagine what that does to a reputation with the public. Very scary stuff, makes the future look dim for Lake States hardwood logging. All of it is going, hard and soft maple, yellow birch, basswood, cherry,.......all of it.


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## treeslayer2003

bitzer said:


> One of yer poplar butts had a similar flare from the heart, thats why I asked. We have oak wilt here too. In the sandy counties it spreads the easiest. No cutting in certain counties from April 1st to July 15th (sap hardens). Trees get infected by the fungus blowing onto an open wound and then through root grafts. From fresh stumps it will get into the roots too. Red oak can die in weeks. Entire stands can be wiped out. I've done a bunch of standing dead harvests and peripheral clear cuts. The white oak are more resistant, but not immune. Yeah it sucks. You guys have EAB there yet or the beech blight? I've seen quite a few hard maple decline for some reason too. A guys got to wonder what the hell is going to be left in 50 years.


EAB is still not on this side of the bay yet.............not that we could harvest much ash any way. most the good red oak here is on sandy ground. they don't care about any thing but pine here.......the cheapest timber going.....go figure.
ima go look at the poplar pic....


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## treeslayer2003

you mean this one bitz?

i think its just age. this stand is very old for poplar and it shows. another decade and i don't think there would been much left.
curios if you know what i did with out seeing the stump.......


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## HuskStihl

Humboldt with a sniped top cut, turned to the right


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## KiwiBro

conventional with a dutchman, semi skip on a 395, milk and two sugars?


----------



## bitzer

treeslayer2003 said:


> you mean this one bitz?
> View attachment 402138
> i think its just age. this stand is very old for poplar and it shows. another decade and i don't think there would been much left.
> curios if you know what i did with out seeing the stump.......


Block face, but you cut the right side off to pull it to the left. Snipe on butt for sure maybe snipe on stump too. Also looks like you had a wedge in there. It looks like you made yer cuts from under the lean or at least the back cut.


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## bitzer

1270d said:


> Bitzer, the hard maple decline you're seeing is what we call Maple Dieback. Its quietly destroying our woods up here. Lots of folks have their head in the sand about it. We do quite a bit of clearcutting areas that have it and you can imagine what that does to a reputation with the public. Very scary stuff, makes the future look dim for Lake States hardwood logging. All of it is going, hard and soft maple, yellow birch, basswood, cherry,.......all of it.


Its scary. I've been seeing it more in the maple/beech stands than anything.


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## treeslayer2003

KiwiBro said:


> conventional with a dutchman, semi skip on a 395, milk and two sugars?


660.36"404 skip. black, 1 suger please.


bitzer said:


> Block face, but you cut the right side off to pull it to the left. Snipe on butt for sure maybe snipe on stump too. Also looks like you had a wedge in there. It looks like you made yer cuts from under the lean or at least the back cut.


yes sir, you got it. but i was not under the lean. it was pretty straight but wanted the field...........i hate pickin up sticks lol.
i did have two wedges in but didn't have to pound um. the face did its job.


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## HuskStihl

bitzer said:


> Block face, but you cut the right side off to pull it to the left. Snipe on butt for sure maybe snipe on stump too. Also looks like you had a wedge in there. It looks like you made yer cuts from under the lean or at least the back cut.


Do y'all define right and left from the front or back? From the back, I thought the holding wood was left on Mike's right, turning it to his right. How'd you tell it was blocked?


----------



## Metals406

HuskStihl said:


> Do y'all define right and left from the front or back? From the back, I thought the holding wood was left on Mike's right, turning it to his right. How'd you tell it was blocked?


Yes


----------



## treeslayer2003

whats throwing y'all off is that i always trim the block hinge off. look at the ground in front of the butt.

every thing today, blocks, humbolts and conventionals. did most my falling for the week, it might blow later in the week.


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## bitzer

HuskStihl said:


> Do y'all define right and left from the front or back? From the back, I thought the holding wood was left on Mike's right, turning it to his right. How'd you tell it was blocked?


Jon left and right on the stump is when you are standing behind the tree looking out to the lay or where the tree is faced. Mike already covered the chunk on the ground.


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## bitzer

treeslayer2003 said:


> whats throwing y'all off is that i always trim the block hinge off. look at the ground in front of the butt.
> 
> every thing today, blocks, humbolts and conventionals. did most my falling for the week, it might blow later in the week.


So is it safe to say you'll sleep good tonight? Cutting in the wind is like hitting a reset button. When the Wind stops you wonder how you ever did without it.


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## HuskStihl

Thanks Bitz and TS. Love that kinda stuff


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## Skeans

treeslayer2003 said:


> you mean this one bitz?
> View attachment 402138
> i think its just age. this stand is very old for poplar and it shows. another decade and i don't think there would been much left.
> curios if you know what i did with out seeing the stump.......


How picky are they over there with square cuts? And leaving the snipe on the butts?


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## treeslayer2003

its not a problem as long as no fiber pull


----------



## HuskStihl

Noob question. Any reason to snipe the butt as opposed to sniping the lower cut (creating a "semi-swanson")? Both allow the face to close further before pulling, but will one produce a different result?


----------



## Skeans

Sometimes you will if you're cutting too low or in a rocky area, and if it's on the stump it will allow it to jump off the stump slightly.


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## Metals406

HuskStihl said:


> Noob question. Any reason to snipe the butt as opposed to sniping the lower cut (creating a "semi-swanson")? Both allow the face to close further before pulling, but will one produce a different result?


Jon, 'scarf's' are cut off the log, 'snipe's' are cut off the stump.

In a general sense, scarf's are used to launch or cause forward momentum off the stump, whereas 'snipe's' are used to let the tree fall in front of the stump first, often before the tree itself.

In contrast, & depending on varying conditions, more open faces will hold the butt causing the stem to hit first before the butt.

Go to the neighbors and practice some of these. [emoji14]


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## HuskStihl

Thanks Mang! I've scarfed down plenty of chicken nuggets, but never a tree. I may have a falling job coming up, so I've alerted the local ER's


----------



## Metals406

HuskStihl said:


> Thanks Mang! I've scarfed down plenty of chicken nuggets, but never a tree. I may have a falling job coming up, so I've alerted the local ER's


Pics and video are required. [emoji1]


----------



## Skeans

Some smaller wood but down along a small creek with a lean back over the creek.


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## treeslayer2003

ima have to try that jack thing one day.
do you do any thing different with your face when jacking? block, thicker hinge? im just guessing.


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## Skeans

You'll leave more hinge then I use a humboldt face, it also depends on the wood type. Doug fir you'll have a closer cut hinge because it's holding wood is stronger.


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## Skeans

I personally don't do a ton of block facing, if I do I will do a humboldt then block the face out


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## treeslayer2003

i like a block, i can wedge the chit out of some wood and still not have any fiber pull. i do that to, combo block/humbolt. stem can about be on the ground before it breaks loose. all depends what im doing.......if i want it to roll i won't do much blocking or if i do ill cut one side almost thru.....almost like a sizwheel......i never did get the hang of them pretty sizwheels like Glen does.


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## KiwiBro

Go ahead, laugh all you want. And yes, the sprocket nose actually handled the abuse.


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## Skeans

Now once in a blue I'll block just one side out for some roll.


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## Skeans

Looks good, never used a solid nose bar they aren't too common around here.


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## treeslayer2003

KiwiBro said:


> Go ahead, laugh all you want. And yes, the sprocket nose actually handled the abuse.
> View attachment 402563


not laffin, it worked. one ? why the block on top the jack? ran out of jack?


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## Skeans

Doesn't look like he has plates on the head of the jack.


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## KiwiBro

treeslayer2003 said:


> not laffin, it worked. one ? why the block on top the jack? ran out of jack?


First time ever used a jack so inexperience, ignorance, and being worried about it jacking beyond an acceptable angle for the piston to handle. Had quite a lean and wasn't sure if would work at all. also, not my jack so couldn't risk wrecking it.

Really need to buy one and pin a solid plate to it, so I can experiment and learn some more. It's on the to-do list.


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## hammerlogging

KB- if the face would have been deep enough still you would have had a far easier time with the block face if you could have made your vertical bore from just one side, flowed by your lower then upper horizontal cuts. just takes practice.


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## treeslayer2003

Joe do you mean his face needs to be deeper? looks pretty deep to me. i to have some trouble lineing up the block on sticks wider than bar length........i don't think my 660 wants more than 36.
also, would y'all recomend a snipe there? i was thinkin it should have one but could be wrong......


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## Skeans

A little deeper on the face and if you look the left and right sides aren't completely even on the face, and he could of brought the back cut up some more.


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## treeslayer2003

i see that on the right, he missed just a little. i to agree in the order of verticle cut first then bottom and top.
lol, i thought y'all would get on me for deep faces.


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## KiwiBro

hammerlogging said:


> KB- if the face would have been deep enough still you would have had a far easier time with the block face if you could have made your vertical bore from just one side, flowed by your lower then upper horizontal cuts. just takes practice.


Thanks. Even for pine and being solid, I thought I was taking a bit of a risk (ignorance again coming to the fore) going as deep as I did with that face.


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## hammerlogging

no, I meant that if he didn't go quite so deep he may have been able to do all his cutting from one side, cause the bar could reach all the way through, which would help to keep it cleaner.
Looks to me like his face ended up over 50% in, so deeper, I don't think so. I wouldn't want it deeper than necessary for a back leaner anyhow, a side lean will need a deeper face than a back leaner. Its depth was probably from all the excessive whittling, before it was finally all cleaned up. For sure I would want to stay on the near side of 50% and probably more in the 40% zone.
Yes, the block works better when all the cuts line up. 
I have always assumed a snipe was a given, so I don't know. 
KB, thanks for the picture, good try, nice bar. Big stump too. 
looks limby.


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## treeslayer2003

thats what i thought Joe, just was a lil confused. yeah yer right on shallow for back lean.
your gettin there kiwi, im only a few years on ya for this kind of face.


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## KiwiBro

Started the face on right side then realised I needed to clear a water line I didn't see earlier so changed things a little. In that situation, would you guys just block out that undercut or leave it there?

That said, I'm a serial, recidivist under-cutter anyway, who cringes at some of the pics of his stumps.


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## hammerlogging

Its not a solid nose bar.

The stump could have a snipe out of site.


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## treeslayer2003

kiwi, id say do what ya need to make sure your cuts meet. an over kerf is disaster on some wood.

i have a ?, is it normal to have to trim the hinge off the log from a block face? most times i have a bar width strip on the log. it broke clean but the strip on the log instead of the stump.


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## KiwiBro

hammerlogging said:


> no, I meant that if he didn't go quite so deep he may have been able to do all his cutting from one side, cause the bar could reach all the way through, which would help to keep it cleaner.
> Looks to me like his face ended up over 50% in, so deeper, I don't think so. I wouldn't want it deeper than necessary for a back leaner anyhow, a side lean will need a deeper face than a back leaner. Its depth was probably from all the excessive whittling, before it was finally all cleaned up. For sure I would want to stay on the near side of 50% and probably more in the 40% zone.
> Yes, the block works better when all the cuts line up.
> I have always assumed a snipe was a given, so I don't know.
> KB, thanks for the picture, good try, nice bar. Big stump too.
> looks limby.


Phew, you had me worried. I was trying to think how to go deeper on a leaner without bad things happening. It is pine so that helps as it is a good hanger-on-er but still, I don't have the experience to be juggling jack forces in a back cut with finishing up a deeper block face. 

Thanks heap guys for the learning opportunities. I just got to be careful not to overload my nogg'n or try too many things in one go or I get confused.


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## HuskStihl

Deep faces on back leaners is why I can now comfortably repair 4 different types of fences


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## KiwiBro

treeslayer2003 said:


> is it normal to have to trim the hinge off the log from a block face?


 I don't know sorry, but if it was a lumber tree I'd be hiding the mess by at least trimming it off.


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## treeslayer2003

you can see the strip i trimmed off. no fiber pull in the log.


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## treeslayer2003

another example of the same thing


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## HuskStihl

I don't know how you'd jack over a big back-leaning pine without a lot of hinge? Stump pull better than butt pull?


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## treeslayer2003

stump pull is always better than butt pull


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## HuskStihl

I've said it before, but I'd love to see a TS video. Those hinges are always amazingly even and precise


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## Skeans

Every time I've block faced yes unless I'm doing something wrong.


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## treeslayer2003

HuskStihl said:


> I've said it before, but I'd love to see a TS video. Those hinges are always amazingly even and precise


lol, you'll have to come do it bro. i thought i'd get my boy to do that for ya........he gone again.


Skeans said:


> Every time I've block faced yes unless I'm doing something wrong.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


well i guess i'm close to right then lol.


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## Skeans

Every time I've seen or been around jacking in the northwest it's been humboldt faced with a stepped back cut personally. Most faces have been around a 1/3 to less then 1/2 with a jack put into the back cut before the face is cut.


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## hammerlogging

you can progress your back cut as you jack the tree into your favor, just like wedging, so by the time it commits to the fall there doesn't have to be any extra hinge.

KB- so your jack placement was your original face cut? That'll throw your plans off right there!


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## Skeans

Also a lot depends on the wood type as well, with Doug fir the hinge or holding wood is stronger.


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## treeslayer2003

before the face........hmm, that makes sense.


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## hammerlogging

Skeans said:


> Some smaller wood but down along a small creek with a lean back over the creek.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Clean moderate sized wood is not to be underrated. nice cutting


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## treeslayer2003

is fir splitty? or, how would you procede in splitty wood?


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## Skeans

Here's an example of a Jack placed before the face, the face was taken out then the back cut was slowly taken with pressure added well watching the top.


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## treeslayer2003

hammerlogging said:


> Clean moderate sized wood is not to be underrated. nice cutting


easier to handle too


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## Skeans

It's only 4 foot which isn't bad to line up or cut.


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## treeslayer2003

Skeans said:


> Here's an example of a Jack placed before the face, the face was taken out then the back cut was slowly taken with pressure added well watching the top.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


how is the top plate attached to the jack? welding it on don't hurt the seals?


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## HuskStihl

hammerlogging said:


> you can progress your back cut as you jack the tree into your favor, just like wedging, so by the time it commits to the fall there doesn't have to be any extra hinge.


Got it, thx


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## Skeans

The top plate and bottom plate are both 1" aluminum that have been drill for the bottom well the top is drill and counter sunk with an Allen to the foot. If they are too bad I'll get my Silvey tree savers out.


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## Skeans

Another thing to remember with jacking is there's a lot of force so if you take too much of your hinge just like wedging you can loose a tree as well.


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## northmanlogging

here goes.. hang on tight..

First jacking is a little sketchy at best, while it does work good we are talking about making a hard leaner go the other way, or a very heavy tree go where you want it... Without good hold wood I wouldn't attempt it.

Any way that aside, its been said on here before but get the biggest damn jack you can, I currently have 2 20 ton bottle jacks, and there have been times I wasn't sure they where going to be enough. As for plates doesn't have to be anything fancy, mine are 3/8" plate with some tubing that slipped over the ram welded on to keep them in place and act as reinforcement (pics I know...) (I think I have enough to fab up a couple more if needed). Never had a need to plate the bottom side. Whatever ya do that top plate needs to have room to tilt with the tree, otherwise it puts a lot of side pressure on them jacks.

BACK THEM UP WITH WEDGES, don't skimp here folks, wedges are made to get skwreshed jacks can and will break.

On to methods...

Two schools of thought here back it first or face it first, for me it depends on how hard its leaning and how much room I'll have to stuff the jack and whatnot in the holes. For a hard leaner I'll back it first most of the way, leaving a little to cut if needed, then face it, if its not leaning real hard or just a heavy tree face it normal and make my back cut only big enough to make the jack seat, get the jack started then continue with cutting the back up.

As far as holding wood goes... Seems like 1/2 again or double the normal amount works pretty good, to a point... I have turned down several cutting jobs on cotton wood that would have required me to jack them away from buildings... Just can't count on that **** to hold ever, even in good conditions... Fir, Hemlock, Cedar, Spruce, Pine all have decent or superb hinge wood.

On to the face!

Not much really different here, maybe a little more of an open face to give it room to close up, have to remember that as high as the back gets before it falls, the face will close the same amount or so. Been a couple of bastard trees that I've had to go back and open the face a bit more to get the ****er to fall. So clean it out real good and try not to leave any dutch in it.

As far as which type of face you use, humboldt, saginaw, swanson, block, I don't think it really matters all that much as long as you leave the perty little step there on the non humboldt cuts to keep it from back slipping. If you absolutely have to use a jack on cotton wood or any other brittle wood, perhaps a block face may be the best option, followed with a Tramp type siswheel (like a regular sis but set back from the face, parallel with the grain and face... allowing the hold wood to really flex... works slick on cotton wood... Did about 20 of these on Saturday)


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## northmanlogging

I think Mrs P. posted this some time ago, its like an hour long but worth watching for all the trouble he has... remember the wedge...



And some more shameless self promotion, from when the jacks are fairly new, using my axe as a plate (which I just fixed like 2 months ago...) Don't use a good axe as a plate... really its not good for em...


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## northmanlogging

By the way that hunk of slab missing on that log up the hill tried to kill me... pinned me to the ground and drug me up the hill about 10 feet...


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## treeslayer2003

sizwheel pics


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## treeslayer2003

northmanlogging said:


> By the way that hunk of slab missing on that log up the hill tried to kill me... pinned me to the ground and drug me up the hill about 10 feet...


i ain't gonna like that


----------



## northmanlogging

treeslayer2003 said:


> sizwheel pics



Patience sir... they are literally across the street but its dark when I leave and dark when I get home... so Sat?


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## treeslayer2003




----------



## HuskStihl

Northy, I can't begin to explain how good it makes guys like me feel to see guys like you miss the far side short. I seriously doubt I will ever put in as level a back cut as that in my life. Great video young Sir


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## northmanlogging

HuskStihl said:


> Northy, I can't begin to explain how good it makes guys like me see guys like you miss the far side short. I seriously doubt I will ever put in as level a back cut as that in my life. Great video young Sir



Meh I'm really not that good... I miss all the ****ing time. Trick is to know when to stop and fix the damage before making a bigger mess.

also I haven't really got my new (read old and used) grinder dialed in so I get some crooked cuts from time to time too. And I'm kinda lazy so the step on the back isn't always perfect, and there is the usual fiber pull... usually from trying a little too hard to turn a tree... or being worried about them tipping backwards and leaving extra hold wood.... (mostly for the tipping backwards part... ****ing houses anyway)


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## HuskStihl

W'ever


----------



## chucker

it's good to see that we are not all as good as we may think we are! speaking for myself there's never been a time that I haven't been able to hit the ground or something in the way of a tree coming down! I have the exceptional luck of not hitting the mark about 99% of the time ..... best of luck falling timber in the rough without precom. thinning! directional falling is a b.i.t.c.h. with a closed canopy!


----------



## RandyMac

I'm perfect. all my trees hit the ground.


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## Gologit

RandyMac said:


> I'm perfect. all my trees hit the ground.


 

Same here. Some times they hit other things before they hit the ground and sometimes there was less bucking to do because it busted up so bad... but every one of them made it to the hat. Eventually.


----------



## madhatte

I'm absolutely perfect unless there's a camera around!


----------



## RandyMac

The epic failures were, well epic.


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## KiwiBro

RandyMac said:


> I'm perfect. all my trees hit the ground.


I can guarantee, with 92.6% accuracy, that I can make a tree fall *EXACTLY* where it wants to.


----------



## BeatCJ

Gologit said:


> sometimes there was less bucking to do because it busted up so bad...



And to misquote the song, that's OK if you're falling for Diamond Match.


----------



## HuskStihl

I'm actually an excellent directional faller. I orbit the stem with an overpowered saw for a really long time until the tree falls in the direction it was originally leaning


----------



## KiwiBro

HuskStihl said:


> I'm actually an excellent directional faller. I orbit the stem with an overpowered saw for a really long time until the tree falls in the direction it was originally leaning


Got a video of this newfandangled 'satellite' falling technique please?
I'll trade you for the pictures of my 'kladder' (kayak+ladder) bucking technique if I can find 'em.

The two of us pioneers are blaz'n a trail for every hack on both sides of the globe to follow.They'll thank us later.


----------



## HuskStihl

KiwiBro said:


> Got a video of this newfandangled 'satellite' falling technique please?
> I'll trade you for the pictures of my 'kladder' (kayak+ladder) bucking technique if I can find 'em.
> 
> The two of us pioneers are blaz'n a trail for every hack on both sides of the globe to follow.They'll thank us later.


Troof


----------



## Gologit

KiwiBro said:


> Got a video of this newfandangled 'satellite' falling technique please?
> I'll trade you for the pictures of my 'kladder' (kayak+ladder) bucking technique if I can find 'em.
> 
> The two of us pioneers are blaz'n a trail for every hack on both sides of the globe to follow.They'll thank us later.


 I'll thank you now. You may not be around later.


----------



## Skeans

Gologit said:


> Same here. Some times they hit other things before they hit the ground and sometimes there was less bucking to do because it busted up so bad... but every one of them made it to the hat. Eventually.


It's always great when the wind pushes them just slightly out of the lay to that one stump you didn't cut off flush.


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## KiwiBro

hammerlogging said:


> KB- so your jack placement was your original face cut? That'll throw your plans off right there!


Sorry for not seeing and responding earlier. Heck, that would be some sort of reversal to switch sides like that. I just meant I tweaked, not reversed, where I wanted it to fall, so tweaked the direction of the face/hinge. I honestly can't recall if I had the jack set up before facing it but I don't think I did. In hindsight I should have set it in there before facing it. 

Gave myself a 5/10 on this one and was happy to learn a few things without wrecking anything. Glad I posted the pic in here because I've learnt plenty more as a result. Cheers all.


----------



## Trx250r180

This is my friend Spencer, he helps me a lot ,maybe you guys should have him help  He gets the crap beat out of him often ,but the other guy in the fight usually ends up hitting the floor first .


----------



## paccity




----------



## BeatCJ

My first thought is "Oh, good Christ!" But that's just the ordained minister in me, I suppose.

My second thought is I sure hope someone else got that down for them, and took away their axe and saw.


----------



## Skeans

Looks a beaver got a hold of that


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----------



## madhatte

Is the cable just there to mess with my head?


----------



## BeatCJ

Looks to me like it was used as a cable gate, and has grown into the tree over 10 years or so.


----------



## rwoods

RandyMac said:


> I'm perfect. all my trees hit the ground.



I can say that all my trees hit the ground *eventually*. Ron


----------



## RandyMac

Miscues are rated by sound level.


----------



## madhatte

Always did like a good boom


----------



## HuskStihl

That is the skyboundest thing I've seen. Maybe grew around a fence post or something?


----------



## bitzer

Wheelin!


----------



## bitzer

Jackin!


----------



## bitzer

Boxin!


----------



## bitzer

Rotten Swingers!


----------



## Skeans

Nice seeing a set of full wraps on the east coast.


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----------



## northmanlogging

bitzer said:


> Wheelin!
> 
> 
> View attachment 403097



This here is what I call a Tramp Sis, Only cause the first time I ever saw one Tramp Busheller had stuck it in a cottonwood, and posted a pic here.


View attachment 403097


----------



## bitzer

Hard pullin

!


----------



## bitzer

Skeans said:


> Nice seeing a set of full wraps on the east coast.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 Yes sir! I won't cut without one.


----------



## bitzer

northmanlogging said:


> This here is what I call a Tramp Sis, Only cause the first time I ever saw one Tramp Busheller had stuck it in a cottonwood, and posted a pic here.
> 
> 
> View attachment 403097


Hey are the pics showing or does it all just look like "attachment blah blah" This pic is from about four years ago. Just something I was playing with at the time. I don't make a lot of use of them. Most trees get either just a dutchman or a heart gut now days.


----------



## bitzer

Hinge placemant on smaller stems. You want them well forward so you don't put too much pressure on the hinge. It also give yo umore leverage. On KBs stump I'll bet he was fighting the hinge a lot. Just to much wood and too far back. When you've got them standing up you can cut the hinge tighter.


----------



## Skeans

Some stuff from today down in a stream bed with a rocker log used to help save it out to 1/2" at the top.




A set of stairs I used on a maple with a board that got reused.





And an ugly little fir to finish up a load domestic.


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----------



## paccity

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=uiXl44CV6VU#t=1


----------



## northmanlogging

Well I can see em...


----------



## treeslayer2003

Skeans said:


> Nice seeing a set of full wraps on the east coast.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





i'm pretty far east


----------



## treeslayer2003

bitzer said:


> Wheelin!
> 
> 
> View attachment 403097
> View attachment 403095
> View attachment 403094
> View attachment 403093


ok, i see the gap. i'v really just been doing a half block...........are you doin a gol with the stihl?


----------



## treeslayer2003

now bitz, studying your wheelin pics.......the face comes out in several chunks? that takes some time.


----------



## CapitaineHaddoc

A fewpics from a french logger, these are pretty old pics,


----------



## CapitaineHaddoc

And these are from 2014,


----------



## CapitaineHaddoc

And a great short movie from 1994,



This one will show you how we do when the skidder can't reach the logs (this method is forbidden, now, I'm sure you'll understand why )


----------



## Gypo Logger




----------



## bitzer

Mike yes I did bore the one with the Stihl. That was a while ago. I used to bore some then. That red oak was leaning pretty hard and had a heavy top. I would do that differently now. As far as the sizwheel its really only two extra cuts. You take out a triangular piece on the pull side exposing the fibers and giving them room to bend. Burvol used to say he was taking a piece of the pie. The humboldts and snipe(scarf) are just complemtary to the swing. With some of those maple block faces I was experimenting a little. Hard maple doesn't always like to hang on the stump for as long as I'd like it too.


----------



## treeslayer2003

i gotcha bitz. now in your boxin pics, what did you do on that red in lower left corner? i know bitzer ain't doin a crown lol.


----------



## HuskStihl

CapitaineHaddoc said:


> And a great short movie from 1994,
> 
> 
> 
> This one will show you how we do when the skidder can't reach the logs (this method is forbidden, now, I'm sure you'll understand why )



I bet Randy used to ride trees down the mountain for fun


----------



## BeatCJ

Skeans said:


> Some stuff from today down in a stream bed with a rocker log used to help save it out to 1/2" at the top.


1/2" ? Am I misunderstanding something? Or is it a typo, and should be 12"?


----------



## bitzer

treeslayer2003 said:


> i gotcha bitz. now in your boxin pics, what did you do on that red in lower left corner? i know bitzer ain't doin a crown lol.


 

This one Mike? The other three are maple. I should have called that set of pics blockin. I think of them as box faces for some reason too. I needed this red to lay out so I didn't bust the last log. Thats why I blocked it, nothing special. The biggest measurement I got on the stump was 60". It was my first block face that was over bar length. I'm still pissed about that back cut four years later. I think I bored in one side because I thought the tree was going to have some rot. Then I cut it from the other side. Now I would have walked it around and sawed back to the corner. Anyway its got that shelf. I like to see a nice flat plane. I'm a perfectionist I guess. I bucked it all at 8. It made 6 of em. I made em short so the forwardr could pick them up. It still couldn't. The first buck was over 48" I believe. That tree should have scaled better than 2mbf, but it hollowed out some after the second log. Still my biggest merch timber to date though.


----------



## Skeans

No it broke out at the very tip


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----------



## HuskStihl

CapitaineHaddoc said:


> A fewpics from a french logger, these are pretty old pics,
> 
> View attachment 403206
> View attachment 403207
> View attachment 403208
> View attachment 403209
> View attachment 403210
> View attachment 403211


That's beautiful country, and those are some big-assed trees. How do you Frenchmen measure the amount of wood in a tree. I'm gonna assume it's not board/feet


----------



## madhatte

It's almost certainly cubic meters. We're alone in the world, mostly, thinking board-feet.


----------



## treeslayer2003

i see bitz, i thought ya gutted it or some thing......looks dark inside but its just the light. meh, don't be pissed over that, its fine, no pull.


----------



## treeslayer2003

one thing i do different, maybe i'm wrong, is make much deeper faces. 40% is about right to me most times........


----------



## bitzer

treeslayer2003 said:


> one thing i do different, maybe i'm wrong, is make much deeper faces. 40% is about right to me most times........


I typically do too, like 40-50 percent.


----------



## treeslayer2003

steep n deep lol

you in good timber bitz?


----------



## bitzer

Yes sir. Soft maple swamp. I'm surprised how tall and clean this wood is every day. Lots of bar length wood. Great production. I've had my best week ever in this woods. 35mbf plus 30 cords in a week. Thats 10 truckloads here.

How about you?


----------



## kentishman

madhatte said:


> It's almost certainly cubic meters. We're alone in the world, mostly, thinking board-feet.



In Britain we still use the hoppus foot for hardwood. And cubic metres for softwood. In line with our confusing policy of using both imperial and metric measurements for different things.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoppus


----------



## treeslayer2003

bitzer said:


> Yes sir. Soft maple swamp. I'm surprised how tall and clean this wood is every day. Lots of bar length wood. Great production. I've had my best week ever in this woods. 35mbf plus 30 cords in a week. Thats 10 truckloads here.
> 
> How about you?


yep, in this poplar branch........prolly half done it, then a stand of mixed pine, oak and poplar. not as large though, in the branch almost all of them are over 30 and some over 40. sandy ground so i'm thankful for that, its pretty wet here.


----------



## madhatte

That Hoppus unit is new to me, but I can see how it would be useful, as everything is based on multiples of 12.


----------



## 1270d

bitzer said:


> Yes sir. Soft maple swamp. I'm surprised how tall and clean this wood is every day. Lots of bar length wood. Great production. I've had my best week ever in this woods. 35mbf plus 30 cords in a week. Thats 10 truckloads here.
> 
> How about you?



Thats a good week Bitz. You still forwarding your own wood too I suppose.


----------



## bitzer

Yes sir! Short skid, high volume per acre, and big, fast cutting wood really bushels up! Yeah It's been over a year since I've had anyone else in the skidder.


----------



## treeslayer2003

im by myself to bitz, dad only hauls now. 20-25000 is a real good week for me. of course alot of that is by weight........think i get screwed on that some times lol.
pulp is starvation here.......i ain't messin with it for 17 a ton.


----------



## coltont

$17.00 a ton. Starvation sticks. Were getting around 40.00 a ton here in central pa.


----------



## treeslayer2003

thats what i herd Colton, they can forget me bringin any in. gotta go thru two scales to get there, then go thru a buncha crap at the mill..... for 17...nope.


----------



## bitzer

Up here its around 60/per ton(150/cord mixed hardwood). I haven't sent anything to the pulp mill for a long time though. I've got a strong firewood customer base. I sell it all in 8 footers, 10 cord min starting at 105/cord and it goes up from there depending on hauling. I can actually make more on the firewood than the logs if the trucking is short. Even so I only do what I have to with it. Its just too time consuming.


----------



## treeslayer2003

105 per cord long length? dam........quit logging and just make wood lol.


----------



## northmanlogging

Siswheel pics as asked fer... I actually took these on sat morning, but then got stupor busy...

Every one of these was leaning over that house and shed... anyway heres the layout. That tall stump in the middle is on account of not having room to squeeze my saw in there.



Little bit of steerage.



This one here is every trick in the book, soft dutch, and a tramp sis, that tramp sis goes down about a foot farther then the main sis, just the moss here is kinda thick and grows back fast...




Front veiw of the tall stump




This one gives a pretty good Idea of the tramp, that board in the middle will flex and twist with the tree, staying connected as long as possible, which isn't long with cotton wood...




Random top veiw, just about every one of these trees needed a sis or at the least a bit of dutch.

View attachment 404296


----------



## northmanlogging

But wait theres more.

Some stump pull. When it works good it works good..



This one is one of the few that hung on all the way to the ground, with is unheard of in cotton wood... Hard to tell cause I cut off the stump pull to get the log out of the way... but if you squint and stand on one leg you'll see it.



Some more good pulling, you can really see the second cut in there.




Armegadutch



Anyway, I thought long and hard about making a video of all this, but to be honest, this lot is a neighborhood embarrassment... One of the kids that used to live here has been wanting to get it cleaned up so he can move back in, taking these trees down got some of the neighbors off his back for a little while, still a **** hole but its getting better.


----------



## Metals406

paccity said:


> View attachment 402864


Dear god! The beavers are evolving!!


----------



## Metals406

Gypo Logger said:


>



-10 points for no mask and snorkel.


----------



## SliverPicker

Don't despair Northy. My sis is a bit of a tramp too...


----------



## madhatte

The most impressive part is keeping all of those crappy little cottonwoods in a tight lead. Good work!


----------



## northmanlogging

ropes help a bit... but not as much as you would think.

Close quarters work like this I'll take the time and rope em off, most where done with a throw line, about 30% or so where free fell.


----------



## Skeans

I don't think I'd trust a rope or a small cable in the work I've been around I'd trust a d7 main line or a jack over any of that but I'm in larger stuff most of the time.


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----------



## northmanlogging

1/2 samson true blue... 8000# rating

Otherwise yeah its 9/16 chokers and 3/4" mainline for anything that needs pulling... ropes get cut, cable not so much.

Its kinda hard to drag 100 pounds of cable 30' up a tree thats only 3" around... Hell it was tough just getting rope up without snapping branches off.


----------



## Metals406

Amsteel Blue is awesome! I've pulled some huge stuff with 3/8". I'm totally sold on that rope.

And no jaggers!!


----------



## northmanlogging

still prefer cable on anything critical... The amsteel is all well and fine, but it can still get cut rather easily.


----------



## coltont

Cable or rope. If you cut it its still your own dumb fault.


----------



## Skeans

At least with cable if you hit it or a guy does it's not getting cut.


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----------



## northmanlogging

True.


----------



## coltont

No but you ka pow your chain. Real nice like


----------



## northmanlogging

shoulda quoted the rope vs cable thing, both can get cut, and ya gotta be kinda dumb to cut cable not on purpose...

But that being said, both statements are still true.

I've cut several ropes with a saw, granted it was almost always while trying to cut em loose, not while they where supporting any kind of weight.

But can't say I've ever cut a cable with a chain saw... Axes, shackles, rocks, snatch blocks, cut off saws, disc grinders, hot cut chisel... Yes, chainsaw no and the axe took some effort and a fair bit of prep.


----------



## Gypo Logger

Maple veneer by 385.
John


----------



## Metals406

Gypo Logger said:


> View attachment 404918
> Maple veneer by 385.
> John


John, are you cut'n again or drill'n?


----------



## Gypo Logger

Metals406 said:


> John, are you cut'n again or drill'n?


Neither really, I just received a card reader and down loaded 3000 or so pics with another 30,000 or so more to go.
So I'm just livin off my laurels lately as the stuff up here isn't that interesting lol.


----------



## coltont

Nice hard maple. Your price come down much?


----------



## Gypo Logger

coltont said:


> Nice hard maple. Your price come down much?


The pic is 10 yrs old but iVe heard the price of veneer hasn't gone down. Sawlogs may be down though.
John


----------



## chucker

hey john, is that a 440 or the540? either way there great machines!


----------



## SliverPicker

northmanlogging said:


> ropes help a bit... but not as much as you would think.
> 
> Close quarters work like this I'll take the time and rope em off, most where done with a throw line, about 30% or so where free fell.



That's an honest man there. My hat is off.


----------



## Skeans

God the brush is going to be nasty this year.


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----------



## treeslayer2003

nice lay sir


----------



## Skeans

Thank you, having to swing and slip a lot of stuff around to keep the small stuff from getting hung up in the big stuff keeping them in the good lays can be a pain plus lead good for a grapple cat.


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----------



## treeslayer2003

i have skidded behind many guys.......that looks nice lol. people ask me why i take pains to keep my lay one way........because i have skidded behind others lol.


----------



## Skeans

I was always taught to keep your stuff in lead with low stumps, unless it's special order wood then all that goes out the window and it's all about the lay.


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----------



## treeslayer2003

oh yea, 1000 dollar sticks get to do almost what ever long as they go down safe. it is nice to back up to a nice lay........goes quick to.


----------



## Skeans

I love when the pole buyer comes down and will always pick the one down in some hole and give me the specs for something longer then the lays their are so the jack have to come out or the drum line of the D7.


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----------



## treeslayer2003

gawd........i called a buyer from up north once.........dude walked all over the woods to mark one load and then he didn't want but only the butt logs. waste of time.


----------



## Skeans

That's the way poles and those sailing masts are but they pay good enough for them it's worth it, then we normally can export a good share of the rest plus a domestic. Seems like some of those special order stuff can be a hassle for what the pay can be sometimes especially if they call one they don't hardly pay you for it.


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----------



## treeslayer2003

yea, the freight was a killer on what more i would have made.
we used to get mast orders once in a while......that seems to have dried up.............or, they just pick one out of a load and pay no extra.


----------



## Skeans

They pay our trucking with those masts, poles they use to but they were 5' on the butts single log loads 150' to 175' and pay all the tickets but those days are gone they tell us our wood is getting too big for the new specs.


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----------



## treeslayer2003

lol, now that i cut at 52' that kinda screws um on the big masts..........oh well, i ain't payin a fine for no more pay.


----------



## Skeans

No point too, they were almost doubling our price of export for ours but it's a really tight grain.


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----------



## treeslayer2003

some thing killed pine export here. not quite sure but i herd some thing about bugs. i didn't think any of your wood had tight rings? grows really fast? im sure thats not true, our wood grows faster than up north but some has really tight rings.


----------



## Skeans

Half way from the hearts it'll have any where from 8 to 12 rings an inch, this is older stuff not the 40 year cycle stuff like the companies are cutting on, is it pine beetle?


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----------



## treeslayer2003

not sure, i just herd it was not legal to export any more. prolly some crap the gov't come up with. plenty of bugs came here that way.


----------



## Skeans

We all complain or think we're in big stuff, that just looks like a bad day.


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----------



## treeslayer2003

well i like falling big trees......but that looks like a pain in the arse lol.


----------



## Skeans

Yeah it does, it says it's 24' on the stump, it came off the Madsens album. And two gallons of gas no thank you


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----------



## RandyMac

I remember falling DF for piling, spent half a day busting them up, can't do the steep and deep, the top third folded on the way down, made a mess.


----------



## Skeans

Yeah it never fails no matter how hard you try you always fold up the top trying to slow it down on the way down or they shatter.


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----------



## RandyMac

There were OG, very tall, very skinny, very close together, most ran 30" dbh, could get 3 40s with a 12" top.


----------



## Skeans

Yeah most of the stuff I'm in is second growth and 4 to 5 40 wood


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----------



## Skeans

Is there any red alder down there Randy?


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----------



## slowp

Skeans said:


> Is there any red alder down there Randy?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I gave him some seedlings to plant.


----------



## Skeans

I swear you look at them funny and they chair out.


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----------



## RandyMac

Yeah, got plenty of Alder.


----------



## bitzer

I wish I could cut a few. Can't imagine they are much worse than our hickory, white oak, or ash.


----------



## coltont

Don't forget big basswood


----------



## bitzer

coltont said:


> Don't forget big basswood


Really? I've never had one split on the stump. I've screwed up some bucks that split, but that can be done with just about anything.


----------



## treeslayer2003

poplar will split if ya don't buck it right. what is bass wood any way?


----------



## coltont

You best have it thin or cut off on the hold side if you are going to roll it through other trees.


----------



## coltont

The face will split quicker than ash or white oak. You have to cut it fast from the back and it will listen. Can't swing it much.


----------



## treeslayer2003

is it like cotton wood? tryin to figure what family its in......


----------



## coltont

Basswood is like poplar but it will break out in a thick slab unlike poplar. No cotton wood here closest thing is aspen to cottonwood


----------



## treeslayer2003

once in a great while i come across a tree i don't know what is. looks kinda like poplar and grows with poplar but not poplar. very soft, and usualy not large. they seem to wind throw worse than even poplar.


----------



## coltont

I bet you $100 it's aspen


----------



## treeslayer2003

this far south? could be......has deep bark like poplar though. take a close look to realize its not.


----------



## coltont

Aspen sucks. You can't swing it at all. It's like cutting wet card board. Only good thing is that it gets really tall and won't taper much. This stuff is 3 25 foot sticks long


----------



## treeslayer2003

hah! that could be it. never seen more than 2-3 in a stand.


----------



## coltont

This stand were in now if has produced 23 loads. It all goes to the dumb yuppie bastards that buy bagged firewood. Hot sticks is what they call it. Sold to Ernie Gish. They call it hot sticks. Pays us well


----------



## treeslayer2003

lol, if we had any sense, we'd buy wood wrapers lol. i some times wonder if there is more profit in wood than in logs......


----------



## coltont

Mechanized for wood would work. You can't cut these with a buncher


----------



## Metals406

treeslayer2003 said:


> lol, if we had any sense, we'd buy wood wrapers lol. i some times wonder if there is more profit in wood than in logs......


Cut a load of DF off my buddies place last year. The mill deducted $450.

He would have made more cutting it all into 16" & selling it fir $180 per cord.


----------



## treeslayer2003

coltont said:


> Mechanized for wood would work. You can't cut these with a buncher View attachment 407767
> View attachment 407770


nope.......when they come out with one that will, i expect i'll quit.


----------



## treeslayer2003

Metals406 said:


> Cut a load of DF off my buddies place last year. The mill deducted $450.
> 
> He would have made more cutting it all into 16" & selling it fir $180 per cord.


yea, if ya think about that much, you'll get really mad


----------



## Metals406

treeslayer2003 said:


> yea, if ya think about that much, you'll get really mad


I did get mad. . . It still chaps mah butt. LOL


----------



## bitzer

Can't swing basswood? Or popple(aspen)? I must be missin someting here. **** I can yank whole sides of stumps out on em.


----------



## Metals406

bitzer said:


> Can't swing basswood? Or popple(aspen)? I must be missin someting here. **** I can yank whole sides of stumps out on em.


But, yer a badass.


----------



## HuskStihl

Metals406 said:


> But, yer a badass.


Troof!


----------



## 1270d

bitzer said:


> Can't swing basswood? Or popple(aspen)? I must be missin someting here. **** I can yank whole sides of stumps out on em.



I'm with you bitz. Aspen and basswood is what I learned to swing on. I think basswood bark alone is tough enough to pull with.


----------



## chucker

popple is the easiest to redirect of the two woods! popple with out having a rotten /hollow heart or being out/over aged that is ... aspen/popple will not grow in a cluster like basswood which has its own set of difficulties to deal with for directional falling from the stump. just like a steep hillside pistol butt stump, cluster felling is an art defined by experience of the faller! gravity has a winning record.


----------



## bitzer

Metals406 said:


> But, yer a badass.


Yeah you shoulda seen me bustin out the dishes this mornin! Both sides of the sink were full. Some real hardcore ****!


----------



## bitzer

1270d said:


> I'm with you bitz. Aspen and basswood is what I learned to swing on. I think basswood bark alone is tough enough to pull with.


Basswood is super stringy and popple will stay on the stump all day if ya let em, just gotta leave enough wood. Cottonwood will too although I rarely cut it. To me the toughest tree to swing can be hard maple. The fibers like to break early. Some red oaks too. Red elm might be the best at staying attached to the stump. I hate elm spring pole cuz they almost never shatter. They bend like an sob instead of break when laying timber on em. I will always take the time to cut em out of the way.


----------



## 1270d

Wear gloves, you don't want to damage your soft hands.


----------



## bitzer

1270d said:


> Wear gloves, you don't want to damage your soft hands.


Ha! Yeah with five kids runnin around the sinks fill up quick. Just some things a guy can't avoid. Tough to make Sunday mornin breakfast with nothing to cook on or eat off.

It gettin any warmer up there?


----------



## coltont

It's a shame most of the red elm that has any size to it is usually full of shake. American elm on the other hand is almost always solid but only about half the value of red.


----------



## coltont

Any of you guys ever cut around Romney or Springfield West Virginia?


----------



## treeslayer2003

i rarely go more than 20 miles from home. you go that far away?


----------



## coltont

Only when the mill gets in a pickle with a tight dead line. Had a big job in Springfield we helped them with. There were 6 guys cutting by hand a 660 timberjack 540E Deere 170 Franklin 210 Prentice and a 750 Deere dozer. I think it was like 650000 feet of primarily white oak and some monster white pine... Biggest pine I've ever cut . It was a lot of fun with that much man power but too much chaos at once for my liking. The mill wanted all the wood out as fast as possible or they were going to run out by the time spring thaw was over and everyone was back cutting full swing.


----------



## 1270d

bitzer said:


> It gettin any warmer up there?



yeah its warming up. was in the twenties today. yesterday was over 30 for a bit. crazy. almost 70 degrees temp swing from last week.


----------



## Spotted Owl

treeslayer2003 said:


> i rarely go more than 20 miles from home. you go that far away?



Spoiled.



Owl


----------



## treeslayer2003

just lazy? lol


----------



## Metals406

bitzer said:


> Yeah you shoulda seen me bustin out the dishes this mornin! Both sides of the sink were full. Some real hardcore ****!


LMAO!


----------



## Skeans

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----------



## northmanlogging

mmm cedar... 

Thats a mighty fine tall stump ya got there, and no rot either.


----------



## Skeans

Just there to the right is part of an old growth stump I tried to chunk down and finally gave up, so that was as long as I could go.


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----------



## treeslayer2003

Skeans said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


steep n deep=good but looks like a back leaner?


----------



## Skeans

Got a little back lean but it's got 3 tops out over the face and one back nothing a wedge can't fix


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----------



## treeslayer2003

pics can deceive. can't get all the tree.


----------



## Skeans

Yes they can be, there's a few there that will have to be jacked over because of the property line.


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----------



## HuskStihl

Holy Swanson Batman! (Imagine a crocodile Dundee accent) "Now _that's _a face!" Nice pics, thanks


----------



## Skeans

A nice decent sized rotten one before lunch this morning, the butt was split out till 24'.


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----------



## treeslayer2003

would you call that a sis of sorts? i kinda do the same thing for just a little swing. shame it rotten.


----------



## Skeans

Yeah I guess so, that was for a little roll and swing 


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## bitzer

Nice sized wood skeans. What bar length you runnin? Semi-skip I see. And whats that other saw doing hidin in the bushes?! You jack that one?


----------



## Skeans

Jacked it, full skip on the 60"" on the 395, semi on the 32" on the 372, the 372 is for starting the cuts otherwise you throw the chains on those long bars with all the droop they have, then limbing and bucking after the first cut is made.


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----------



## bitzer

Looks like fun! How does that 395 pull that much chain?


----------



## Skeans

It does ok pulling it, it's been hopped up here locally and with a 7 pin sprockets and good sharp chain it pulls through the wood.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Metals406

treeslayer2003 said:


> would you call that a sis of sorts? i kinda do the same thing for just a little swing. shame it rotten.


I'd call it a tapered block face.


----------



## Skeans

Metals406 said:


> I'd call it a tapered block face.


Yeah I'd agree the main thing was to get the limb side up so more was left in the brush.


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## treeslayer2003

i know why ya did that skeans......dunno the proper west coast term, but i know why lol.


----------



## chucker

treeslayer2003 said:


> i know why ya did that skeans......dunno the proper west coast term, but i know why lol.


LOL... kind of like "getting the job done"......


----------



## Skeans

Lol yep main thing is saving that stuff out too much value there anymore, would of been nice if it was solid oh well I know a few guys that buy those rounds for water features and planters so it doesn't hurt so much.


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## Skeans

Anyone have anymore ideas of what to do with cedar slabs basically?


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## northmanlogging

Fence rails?

There are still a few outfits that buy shake blocks, couldn't tell ya any down yer way though.


----------



## Skeans

Far as I know the shake mills are all gone as far as I know plus that was for old growth, got a few guys buying rounds for rails and fence posts. I'm thinking the city people only being an hour from Portland and about two and a half from Seattle, does anyone still seal them for coffee tables? Or something like that.


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----------



## chucker

? not sure if their still operating yet. in the longview area you could try the kalama shake mill or the rose vally mill north of town.....


----------



## treeslayer2003

couple years ago i sold some hollow poplar logs for caskets.......go figure lol. they had to be big, i figure it was just a way to get cheaper logs that were good enough.


----------



## chucker

treeslayer2003 said:


> couple years ago i sold some hollow poplar logs for caskets.......go figure lol. they had to be big, i figure it was just a way to get cheaper logs that were good enough.


LOL????C.T.L. cheap caskets hey! no building of such, just roll the customers till they fit the product size! I "wood" be guessing? so was that in 100" or tree length? LOL


----------



## Skeans

chucker said:


> ? not sure if their still operating yet. in the longview area you could try the kalama shake mill or the rose vally mill north of town.....


Gram Kalama isn't a shake mill it's a fence post mill anymore. Only one around that I know of without some distance, plus they won't take those split ones.


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## Haywire Haywood

Forgive the ignorance, what is a sis?


----------



## Skeans

A sizwheel or siswheel


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## BeatCJ

Skeans said:


> Anyone have anymore ideas of what to do with cedar slabs basically?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I need one for the bar in my basement. It's recovered from a local place that closed, I want to replace the worn out laminate top.


----------



## Metals406

Extra cedar can be advertised on CL, FB, etc -- for guys who want to mill it themselves. Lots of band and CS mills out there.


----------



## ArtB

12 yo grandson 'logged' his first 2 trees 'solo' with chain saw (small electric) today. He was pleased with himself. 

Determined preferred fall direction with plumb line first, etc. Opened the notch with ax, backcut with electric chain saw.

Trees were near the house also - 'wild' red cedar that had been 'let go' in mom's rose garden. Did take a precaution of roping 'just in case' gs miscalculated on depth of notch.


----------



## Haywire Haywood

My first tree was a magnolia. Didn't have the luxury of family that knew chainsaw technique. I climbed it with a 24" manual bow saw and chunked it down, trimming limbs off the trunk as I came down. Mom had me do it when Dad was TDY. He wasn't happy when he got back. Lol


----------



## bitzer

Well when I finally got my act together to make some videos of course my number 1 saw had to have the coil quit on me after a few tanks. So in all of these videos I'm running the back up saw. The handle bar is tweeked pretty bad from having a tree roll over on it and that threw my game off some (kept missing the inside corner of the face which I almost never do). The oiler is not working at all in any of these videos either. Apparantly at 5 below you don't need oil. I ran the saw for 3 hours without filling the tank once. Sometimes the chain would run tight and then it would hang several inches slack. So if it seems like I was being heavy handed with it that was why. This was the last day on this job and despite the saw trouble it turned out to be my best ever with 8mbf cut and skidded that day. I picked up 6 cords of pulp the next morning from this day's cutting. The trees in the videos were about average for the entire job. All soft maple. I did have video of some of the bigger ones, but of course they didn't show well. And oh yeah my knees were fricken killin me! Yeah I know, *****, *****, excuses, excuses. Hopefully these damn videos work! Let me know!


----------



## bitzer




----------



## Metals406

Too quick to be an east coast faller. If it wasn't fir that overhand notch, I couldn't tell the difference.


----------



## HuskStihl

Thanks a lot Bitz. I liked watching you sometimes dutch from the face, and sometimes turn from the back. My noob self would have loved a running commentary on what you were thinking. I involuntarily got into a fetal position and started crying as soon as I saw the subject of the middle video on your second post. I hope Old Bob doesn't watch these, he'll be offended by ur potty mouth


----------



## bitzer

Metals406 said:


> Too quick to be an east coast faller. If it wasn't fir that overhand notch, I couldn't tell the difference.


Thank you sir! When i get into the hills you'll see plenty of smiling stumps. I did use a lot of humboldts on the marms in here. Just no need in the swamps when you're buttin off. I do like how trees come off the stumps better with a humboldt.


----------



## bitzer

HuskStihl said:


> Thanks a lot Bitz. I liked watching you sometimes dutch from the face, and sometimes turn from the back. My noob self would have loved a running commentary on what you were thinking. I involuntarily got into a fetal position and started crying as soon as I saw the subject of the middle video on your second post. I hope Old Bob doesn't watch these, he'll be offended by ur potty mouth


I like cussin. I don't get to do it at home though. That was the last tree of a long day with that saw. If ya got any questions ask. I was on auto pilot with most of those.


----------



## treeslayer2003

thats good logger falling in good working size timber. i can't like that one vid bro, in light of what happened here last week.
soft maple? they tall and straight.......looked like you gutted one of them.
whats that rig you have your axe in? i kinda like that rig.
now.....what happened to that hooskie there? blowed the muffler right off?


no sound for me as usuall


----------



## HuskStihl

Profanity was actually my native tongue.


----------



## rwoods

In case anybody is wondering that hung snag in the short video was not broken, it is where I was demonstrating to blitz that no face high cuts are the right way to do things - saves time, saves the back, puts them on the ground eventually, and leaves a stump the skidder can see. Also puts any chair at eye level so you won't miss it. Or is it miss you??? Better go back to . I'll report back once I figure it out. 

Enjoyed the videos. 

Ron


----------



## northmanlogging

Nice work bitz, good sound too, I like when they thump real good... just never seem to catch that on video, that our when a snag detonates with lots of crash, smash and crackle...

However you make me look like a gimpy ole man with a cane...


----------



## coltont

Are you in a hover round yet northman?


----------



## northmanlogging

Not yet... need some more parts...


----------



## HuskStihl

northmanlogging said:


> However you make me look like a gimpy ole man with a cane...



With all his smart talkin, it's easy to forget that Bitz is a kid. A big, funny-lookin, foul-mouthed kid with a bad baby-making habit, but a kid nonetheless. 
I'm glad he is, cause I doubt my old, broken body would have gotten out of the way of the "hang up of death." 
I would have been 10 feet ahead of Northman, however.


----------



## mingo

Nice looking work.


----------



## bitzer

Come on guys I'm 33 and with 5 kids and hand cutting that handicaps me to about 50! That swamp had several inches of ice as you can see. We had a dozer push it out to freeze it down. I'll bet thats why I got such good thumpin sounds. I thought the same thing. I wouldn't have wanted to cut that job without corks. Even then if I stepped on a big enough stick I'd wind up on my ass! Good timber for soft maple. It averaged 400bf per tree and there were many thousand bf sticks in there. I cut and landed 87mbf plus 60 cords in 14 days.


----------



## HuskStihl

Is ice pick still with ya?


----------



## bitzer

treeslayer2003 said:


> thats good logger falling in good working size timber. i can't like that one vid bro, in light of what happened here last week.
> soft maple? they tall and straight.......looked like you gutted one of them.
> whats that rig you have your axe in? i kinda like that rig.
> now.....what happened to that hooskie there? blowed the muffler right off?
> 
> 
> no sound for me as usuall



Mike- yeah I know about that snag. Honestly I probably cut 6-12 bad ones like that per year. I had a lot of time to think about that one and it was really the best way to do it. I couldn't grab it safely with the forwarder and yank it down and it was too high to get anything on it to drag it down. I cleared a good escape, left the one tree as a backstop, and got it all cut up right before the camera was rolling. It was my only option. I couldn't leave it. Yeah that muffler rattled off 3 trees before that. I just gave the carb more juice and kept at it. It was the last day. You really need to get sound man! You're missin half the story!


----------



## bitzer

HuskStihl said:


> Is ice pick still with ya?


I still talk to him from time to time, but no he has not been cutting for me for a while. I know he still checks in here so I can't bad mouth him too bad! 


Oh and the wife is talkin about number 6


----------



## HuskStihl

Sounds like you might need a new old apprentice!


----------



## northmanlogging

bitzer said:


> I still talk to him from time to time, but no he has not been cutting for me for a while. I know he still checks in here so I can't bad mouth him too bad!
> 
> 
> Oh and the wife is talkin about number 6



SIX hel I'm just trying to talk mine into getting a dog... which I think I have her around the corner on...


----------



## treeslayer2003

axe rig sir, i need details on that axe rig


----------



## bitzer

treeslayer2003 said:


> axe rig sir, i need details on that axe rig


Yeah I was gonna wait til I had a pic for you. Its a cordless drill holster. Leather with a strap and machine screws with stop nuts to cinch it in the right places. I will still get a pic for ya. This has been my best axe holder to date. Probably on a year or more now with it.


----------



## bitzer

northmanlogging said:


> SIX hel I'm just trying to talk mine into getting a dog... which I think I have her around the corner on...


I got mine a dog to keep the baby numbers down. That was three kids ago.


----------



## bitzer

HuskStihl said:


> Sounds like you might need a new old apprentice!


Buy the ticket Jon. You can fly right into Milwaukee. I'm 45 min north.


----------



## Gypo Logger

Michelle, my super streetwise daughter fooling a falling cut on overshadowing day. She's a chip off the ole block and will always be.
Its great to have kids.


----------



## Skeans

Got some more to cut the next few years.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bnmc98

Hey, I have always enjoyed this thread. Am usually too busy to post anything of my own, let alone actually get any pics and stuff.
But... I had some time and my son's video camera the last couple days and took a few pics and videos.

Here's what I'm in now. Nice for where we are.










Loading some up




I've got a few videos too if anyone is interested.


----------



## KiwiBro

bnmc98 said:


> I've got a few videos too if anyone is interested.


 Yes please.


----------



## treeslayer2003

bnmc98 said:


> Hey, I have always enjoyed this thread. Am usually too busy to post anything of my own, let alone actually get any pics and stuff.
> But... I had some time and my son's video camera the last couple days and took a few pics and videos.
> 
> Here's what I'm in now. Nice for where we are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 413542
> 
> 
> View attachment 413543
> 
> 
> Loading some up
> 
> View attachment 413544
> 
> 
> I've got a few videos too if anyone is interested.


nice swing, post more often!


----------



## HuskStihl

I would very much enjoy a video, or six


----------



## bitzer

Nice looking sticks! Limbing looks like fun. Yeah I think it should be mandatory for everyone to post a video. Mike I'm lookin at you!


----------



## Metals406

I vote for video. . . And pictures. . . And more video.


----------



## bnmc98

bitzer said:


> Nice looking sticks! Limbing looks like fun. Yeah I think it should be mandatory for everyone to post a video. Mike I'm lookin at you!



Well most of them are limbed on the landing. Here's a video of one that I did limb a little so I could get it out.

You can skip the boring parts cause you can't see the face


----------



## 1270d

You run 288's for fun or do you have a stash and still use em full time?


----------



## HuskStihl

It looked like you set the hinge/holding wood the way you wanted by boring from the side _after _you had started what looked like a conventional back cut. Is that something you typically like to do? If that's not what was happening, then never mind. Saw sounds great


----------



## bnmc98

1270d said:


> You run 288's for fun or do you have a stash and still use em full time?



LOL No, I just have one. Bought it used with a fresh rebuild.



HuskStihl said:


> It looked like you set the hinge/holding wood the way you wanted by boring from the side _after _you had started what looked like a conventional back cut. Is that something you typically like to do? If that's not what was happening, then never mind. Saw sounds great



Well, because it was leaning pretty good, I like to take a little off each side so I can get through it faster. That's why I started the away side first. Then, yes I bored it across just behind the hinge and cut the strap behind the bore. I don't do that all the time... just when I feel I need to


----------



## bitzer

You'll burn some fuel limbing a few like those! I get big limby hardwood trees that like to collapse back onto you like that. Makes for a long day. Nice work though. Thanks for posting it!


----------



## bnmc98

Hey guys, does the video quality on that one I posted suck, or is it ok? I just viewed it on a different computer of mine and it stinks.


----------



## Skeans

It looked ok on my phone nice looking pine, is there many mills left in Montana anymore?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BeatCJ

I just viewed it and it was OK, not great when I viewed it in the post, but it wasn't good enough to watch it full screen. Since my connection is slow, I usually watch at a lower resolution anyway.


----------



## bnmc98

I recorded it in HD and re-rendered it in HD mp4. Then uploaded it to youtube, must be on their end but I am not familiar with how to change anything on their site.



Skeans said:


> It looked ok on my phone nice looking pine, is there many mills left in Montana anymore?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



It is actually a Doug Fir. Thats all we have to cut in this area.
Not many mills left, however there is a few new start ups. Random length stuff.


----------



## treeslayer2003

bnmc, idk how old ya are but your pace is alot like mine.........i can't run around like bitz and tc no more lol.

bitz, i could maybe shoot a vid with the camera i have but i would have no clue how to post it unless it can be done just like a pic.........


----------



## northmanlogging

Go to Youtube, start an account, upload a vid... takes some time and they like to have you fill in the blanks. Then copy the link once its all done, start a post, insert link, and the puter does the rest.

Once you get the vid on your home puter, Youtube pretty much does the rest, very much like loading a pic just takes some time...


----------



## BeatCJ

Or I would bet you could use one of the photo sharing sites, Photobucket, Flickr or others.


----------



## HuskStihl

treeslayer2003 said:


> bnmc, idk how old ya are but your pace is alot like mine.........i can't run around like bitz and tc no more lol.


That's depressing. He looks like a kid to me. Bet he's Bitzer's age or younger.
Mike, if you ever make a video, you can email it to me and I'll post it for you


----------



## bnmc98

I am 40
and my name is Brian


----------



## HuskStihl

bnmc98 said:


> I am 40
> and my name is Brian


Just hitting u'r prime Brian, just hitting u'r prime.


----------



## bnmc98

treeslayer2003 said:


> bnmc, idk how old ya are but your pace is alot like mine.........i can't run around like bitz and tc no more lol.


Might be a stupid question but what is "tc"? 

Where are you at?

How old are some of you guys?


----------



## treeslayer2003

lol, two chains, he a southern faller.........i think he flat out runs wide open 10 hours a day.
i am 43, been in the woods since i could climb up on a skidder. im on the eastern shore of Maryland.


----------



## bnmc98

Here is the one is the picture tree slayer thought was a swing. It really wasn't, just looks that way cause I took some of the heart out.



I wont win any speed awards for this one so sorry if its boring.
Let me know if the quality is sub par.


----------



## bnmc98

treeslayer2003 said:


> lol, two chains, he a southern faller.........i think he flat out runs wide open 10 hours a day.
> i am 43, been in the woods since i could climb up on a skidder. im on the eastern shore of Maryland.



I see.
Way cool


----------



## treeslayer2003

HuskStihl said:


> That's depressing. He looks like a kid to me. Bet he's Bitzer's age or younger.
> Mike, if you ever make a video, you can email it to me and I'll post it for you


lol, i knew he was older than bitz......
thats a good idea John.............idk if i have your mail or not


----------



## treeslayer2003

bnmc98 said:


> Here is the one is the picture tree slayer thought was a swing. It really wasn't, just looks that way cause I took some of the heart out.
> 
> 
> 
> I wont win any speed awards for this one so sorry if its boring.
> Let me know if the quality is sub par.



takin some the heart out is always smart on big timber imo..........sorry bout that, i hate to put on glasses


----------



## bitzer

I'm 33 and my name is Bob. Not thee Bob, but Bob all the same. Its fun to watch guys on here who know what they're doing. Quality was good enough for me.


----------



## HuskStihl

I'm liking u'r chain Brian. 288 was puking out chips like a waterfall.
Mike, if'n ya make a video, I'll shoot you my email. It's not super secret, but I don't want Gologit spamming me with all the heli-logging jobs he claims to need my unique skill-set on


----------



## northmanlogging

Matt, 37


----------



## bnmc98

HuskStihl said:


> I'm liking u'r chain Brian. 288 was puking out chips like a waterfall.



I used to just run round until I got on this site and started listening to some of you guys. Now I run square. Still getting the hang of filing, but that is just square skip. Nobody around here carries it so I have to get it online. 

I'm not far off in age from those who reported in. Howdy.


----------



## bnmc98

treeslayer2003 said:


> takin some the heart out is always smart on big timber imo..........sorry bout that, i hate to put on glasses



Sorry about what? I don't expect anyone to read that kind of stuff. especially when I cut only half of the fibers off the butt and leave the other stuff to throw everyone off


----------



## coltont




----------



## coltont

Love cutting that size of red oak


----------



## treeslayer2003

HuskStihl said:


> I'm liking u'r chain Brian. 288 was puking out chips like a waterfall.
> Mike, if'n ya make a video, I'll shoot you my email. It's not super secret, but I don't want Gologit spamming me with all the heli-logging jobs he claims to need my unique skill-set on


i did a short one........won't load like a pic..........have to get the hand brake to help later. i thought i had your mail......maybe not


----------



## treeslayer2003

bnmc98 said:


> I used to just run round until I got on this site and started listening to some of you guys. Now I run square. Still getting the hang of filing, but that is just square skip. Nobody around here carries it so I have to get it online.
> 
> I'm not far off in age from those who reported in. Howdy.


same thing with me


----------



## treeslayer2003




----------



## Metals406

bitzer said:


> I'm 33 and my name is Bob. Not thee Bob, but Bob all the same. Its fun to watch guys on here who know what they're doing. Quality was good enough for me.





northmanlogging said:


> Matt, 37


Hi Bob and Matt. . .


I'm Johnny Cash.


----------



## treeslayer2003

any ideas here? its hung and uprooted


----------



## treeslayer2003

Metals406 said:


> Hi Bob and Matt. . .
> 
> 
> I'm Johnny Cash.


pft, kevinator

Matt i didn't think you'd ever post your name lol.


----------



## coltont

Blade it out of the ground and winch it out. If you have a Deere that is.


----------



## Metals406

treeslayer2003 said:


> View attachment 414182
> View attachment 414183
> View attachment 414184
> any ideas here? its hung and uprooted


Root sprung and hung?

A option: Pull it over with equipment.

B option: Cut the one it's hung in and run like the wind!

C option: Use explosives and video it! :0)


----------



## coltont

My cousin . My skidder operator. Got tired of skidding and decided to cut one.


----------



## treeslayer2003

ba, hahahaha, that dam deere won't even think about it. can't go down there any way......wet lands, no equipment.


----------



## Metals406

treeslayer2003 said:


> ba, hahahaha, that dam deere won't even think about it. can't go down there any way......wet lands, no equipment.
> View attachment 414186
> View attachment 414187


Ewwww. . . Squishy.


----------



## treeslayer2003

yep, for about 75' then its dry as a bone. all timber must be felled up the hill at least quartering up.


----------



## Trx250r180

treeslayer2003 said:


> ba, hahahaha, that dam deere won't even think about it. can't go down there any way......wet lands, no equipment.
> View attachment 414186
> View attachment 414187


Your forests there are clearer between the trees than our parks in town are ,all our trees you have to hike up a hill both ways through slough brush and ferns ,while falling on your rear from the moss .


----------



## treeslayer2003

lol, not really bro........plenty of briers in there


----------



## KiwiBro

bnmc98 said:


> Here is the one is the picture tree slayer thought was a swing. It really wasn't, just looks that way cause I took some of the heart out.
> I wont win any speed awards for this one so sorry if its boring.
> Let me know if the quality is sub par.


Thank you. Until you walked between them, I thought it was one big tree and a real shallow face.


----------



## bitzer

Mike I'd buck it off the stump. You gotta use a salami tho so she slips apart easier. Just watch yer toes.


----------



## treeslayer2003

i'm pretty sure its sprung pretty good. whats a salami?


----------



## bitzer

Nice clean work colton. I agree with you on oak that size. I could rarely get a stump that low here on red oak though. Every woods I've ever cut in has been pastured at one time or another and its all roots. Worms do it too I know.

Mike-nice stumps.


----------



## bitzer

treeslayer2003 said:


> i'm pretty sure its sprung pretty good. whats a salami?


Cut at a 45 so the pieces slip apart and if yer saw pinches it usually slips with it. Knock the whole **** over with another tree if its too ugly. Cripple stuff up first tho to make sure everything goes and you don't start building a teepee.


----------



## bitzer

Metals406 said:


> Hi Bob and Matt. . .
> 
> 
> I'm Johnny Cash.


You're still wanted in Reno ya know.


----------



## Metals406

bitzer said:


> You're still wanted in Reno ya know.


They want to send me to Folsom Prison.


----------



## coltont

Not San Quentin?


----------



## northmanlogging

treeslayer2003 said:


> View attachment 414182
> View attachment 414183
> View attachment 414184
> any ideas here? its hung and uprooted



cripple it and the one its leaning in or just the one its leaning in and stuff it with a neighbor



treeslayer2003 said:


> pft, kevinator
> 
> Matt i didn't think you'd ever post your name lol.



Hell I joined Facebook a couple weeks ago... Don't matter now...



bitzer said:


> You're still wanted in Reno ya know.



I may be wanted in Reno, But I know I'm wanted in Eugene..


----------



## treeslayer2003

Hell I joined Facebook a couple weeks ago... Don't matter now...
.[/QUOTE said:


> i may have to........said i never would......meh


----------



## northmanlogging

someone told me it was a good way to shamelessly self promote... jury is still out on that, but I did run into a bunch of friends I've lost touch with.


----------



## treeslayer2003

northmanlogging said:


> someone told me it was a good way to shamelessly self promote... jury is still out on that, but I did run into a bunch of friends I've lost touch with.


hmm, could be trouble then lol.......ol GFs


----------



## bitzer

Heres some from today. Mostly basswood with the good saw. I'm a little wound up from it being monday and sittin in the skidder all morning. Of course I had a serious time crunch today today. I needed to cut a load in 3 hours instead of the usual 4.


----------



## bitzer

And some more. Ok I'll quit buggin you guys for a while.





This last one pretty much sums up my day. Frustrating. It had a double crotch and if I would have sent it where it was leaning I would have lost the last log for sure, maybe two. Yeah I had to pull some fibers to do it though. Saved all the logs out and even the top logs. It made 3 10s and 3 12s.


----------



## treeslayer2003

basswood? it is soft? saw eats it up.


----------



## treeslayer2003

man, alot of them are hollow huh?


----------



## bitzer

Yeah its about like cuttin white pine, but if ya horse on it it will bind on ya and of course I was. Yeah basswood is often hollow on the butt. The last was an ash. I'll have to video a decent hard maple and red oak in this woods for comparison for ya.


----------



## bitzer

Mike would you sacrifice some butt pull to save the last log? I've been meaning to ask you. That ash was a good example. If I would have let it lay where it wanted I would have lost 2-3 logs probably.


----------



## treeslayer2003

yes. not only that, some times for me it comes down to, pull it hard and have to trim it or don't cut it at all cuz it can not go down where it wants to...........so a 500 dollar log on the truck is better than an 800 dollar log standing waiting to blow over and rot.
make sense? besides, that wern't to bad......bass wood is just saw any way? sweet gum loves to pull fiber, but alot of times there is no other way, so i'm makin a load of gum pallet saw......it can do what ever, its goin on the truck.

you mean to save the top?.....well, if it will go down and not be in a buffer or out in the road, and its veneer, then in that case prolly not. however as i understand it you get paid on volume instead of grade? then i guess it depends wich ever you gain the most in. i still say that little bit of pull is no big deal.


----------



## treeslayer2003

thats an ash? it all heart......just butt it off, its just a tree and we are just men. nobody can perform miracles bro.


----------



## 1270d

you mean to save the top?.....well, if it will go down and not be in a buffer or out in the road, and its veneer, then in that case prolly not. however as i understand it you get paid on volume instead of grade? then i guess it depends wich ever you gain the most in. i still say that little bit of pull is no bigdeal.


I had typed out almost the same thing, but I didn't know bitz got paid scale not grade. Seems like it would be to your mills benefit to pony up for higher pay on high grade.


----------



## treeslayer2003

bitzer said:


> Mike would you sacrifice some butt pull to save the last log? I've been meaning to ask you. That ash was a good example. If I would have let it lay where it wanted I would have lost 2-3 logs probably.


some times i read to fast. if you saved 2 logs, thats what 24'? so you sacrificed 1' to save 24'? good deal in my book.


----------



## HuskStihl

Thanks for the vids Bitz!


----------



## Samlock

I see you finally gave up the spider cell camera, Bitz. Nice! 

Man, does the winter hardwood stand look like badlands!


----------



## Metals406

bitzer said:


> Heres some from today. Mostly basswood with the good saw. I'm a little wound up from it being monday and sittin in the skidder all morning. Of course I had a serious time crunch today today. I needed to cut a load in 3 hours instead of the usual 4.



I like watching you cut. . . No d ick around.

You should be teaching those bore cutters how it's done. [emoji12]


----------



## Metals406

As far as pulling wood to save-out an entire stick, you bet your ass! Better to pull the stump, but we don't always get our way.

Any neanderthal can go and slip them off the stump and let them fall down with the lean, real timber fallers steer their trees where they need to go -- to keep lead or save-out. And steering takes fiber, just how it is.

Same with hanging one up every now and then, it's gonna happen.


----------



## SliverPicker

You said a mouthful there. "Steering takes fiber, just how it is." +1


----------



## SliverPicker

Death, taxes and fiber pull.


----------



## HuskStihl

Fiber pullers.


----------



## madhatte

^ beat me to it


----------



## Samlock




----------



## treeslayer2003

Samlock said:


>


i got to have it


----------



## treeslayer2003

i drove a huge poplar into that mess.........it just slid down one side. ain't gonna be that easy.


----------



## Metals406

treeslayer2003 said:


> i drove a huge poplar into that mess.........it just slid down one side. ain't gonna be that easy.


I didn't see a good 'sledge' tree in yer pics, so figured driving wasn't an option.


----------



## Skeans

How many of you guys slip the butts off the side of the stumps?


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## northmanlogging

Skeans said:


> How many of you guys slip the butts off the side of the stumps?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Never got the hang of that one... Never really needed to either.


----------



## bitzer

treeslayer2003 said:


> some times i read to fast. if you saved 2 logs, thats what 24'? so you sacrificed 1' to save 24'? good deal in my book.


Yep. I got 4 logs to the top and 2 logs after. It busheled out to about 1000 bf. If I would have let it just fly the way it wanted it would have have split out the last log before the top for sure and may have busted up the top logs too. Ash almost always has a big heart here.

You cripple up the tree your blowdown was leaning into before you slammed it all with another?


----------



## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> Never got the hang of that one... Never really needed to either.


We were doing it in cedar today god the stumps were ugly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bitzer

Metals406 said:


> I like watching you cut. . . No d ick around.
> 
> You should be teaching those bore cutters how it's done. [emoji12]


Thank you sir! Yeah I didn't do much for commentary cuz I figured you guys would get it. 

In the first video second tree it sat down on my bar as it slowly came around. Had to wait for it to move. Pullin the side of the stump out was intentional too on that other one. And I tossed my saw in the last video cuz I skipped my chain for the thousanth time that day. That bar met a bad end today. Good riddance. Just makin those points for the lurkers in here who might not get it.


----------



## bitzer

Skeans said:


> How many of you guys slip the butts off the side of the stumps?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I can and have, but I usually don't have the situation where I need to. Slippin em off the back of the stump I do in tight timber if I have to avoid a hanger or save out.


----------



## Skeans

Not back but sideways


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## Skeans

Normally on steeper ground if there's a bad spot with a good shot with a top like what we were doing today it made sense, wasn't a huge fan of doing it but they saved to 2" at the top.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bitzer

Samlock said:


> I see you finally gave up the spider cell camera, Bitz. Nice!
> 
> Man, does the winter hardwood stand look like badlands!



Thats the wifes camera, don't tell her. Yeah theres no exotics in this woods to green it up this time of year. We had very little snow here. It all melted and dried up quickly and it hasn't rained yet.


----------



## Skeans

The rain is coming trust me it started again here this weekend


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## bitzer

Skeans said:


> Normally on steeper ground if there's a bad spot with a good shot with a top like what we were doing today it made sense, wasn't a huge fan of doing it but they saved to 2" at the top.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yep I've slipped some big red oaks sideways off the stump so they slid down hill to save out the last log.


----------



## bitzer

Skeans said:


> The rain is coming trust me it started again here this weekend
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Its comin tonight, just looked at the radar.


----------



## Skeans

I'm hoping for another dry stretch to get the stuff out of the brush and everything off the landing, then back to thinning running a buncher and forwarder.


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## bnmc98

Skeans said:


> How many of you guys slip the butts off the side of the stumps?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I guess I'm not familiar with this. Do you mean cutting the the undercut with a snipe so that it rolls off to one side as it goes over? What are you exactly doing when you do it (cut wise I mean)?


----------



## Skeans

Both the face and back cut are slanted to go down the hill side well the top goes the same as the face.


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## treeslayer2003

Metals406 said:


> I didn't see a good 'sledge' tree in yer pics, so figured driving wasn't an option.


it was over to the right,close to 40"....8-900bft, i thought it would knock all of it over......should have crippled um up some i guess.


----------



## Skeans

Well I guess I should introduce myself I'm Jared and 26.


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## treeslayer2003

Skeans said:


> Both the face and back cut are slanted to go down the hill side well the top goes the same as the face.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


wouldn't you have to chase the hinge about off? slick stump.......


----------



## Skeans

Edge it up, a cedar will pop off a hinge


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## treeslayer2003

Skeans said:


> Well I guess I should introduce myself I'm Jared and 26.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


oh man, you don't even get tired lol.


----------



## Skeans

treeslayer2003 said:


> oh man, you don't even get tired lol.


I do because I'm also a mechanic and have a cdl


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## treeslayer2003

Skeans said:


> I do because I'm also a mechanic and have a cdl
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


some may not believe it but that stuff can be worse than falling. i been hurt way worse in the shop than in the woods.


----------



## bnmc98

Skeans said:


> Both the face and back cut are slanted to go down the hill side well the top goes the same as the face.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



makes sense i guess, I haven't done it but that's not saying a lot



treeslayer2003 said:


> wouldn't you have to chase the hinge about off? slick stump.......



I could see a narrow face opening helping pop it off sooner so it slides down but that might be a little like asking for a chair, dunno, never done it.

I've always just used the snipe method.


----------



## treeslayer2003

me to, since i quit jumpin.....steep face too.


----------



## bnmc98

treeslayer2003 said:


> some may not believe it but that stuff can be worse than falling. i been hurt way worse in the shop than in the woods.



That is the very place my back goes out most often. Wrenching.
What sucks is I have another oportunity to do the same over the next day or so.
We lost a ring and pinion in the 518 so we have to swap 3rd members


----------



## treeslayer2003

bnmc98 said:


> That is the very place my back goes out most often. Wrenching.
> What sucks is I have another oportunity to do the same over the next day or so.
> We lost a ring and pinion in the 518 so we have to swap 3rd members


that sucs.......you got one to put in it? i grab up parts any chance i get.

i take it your an owner operator like me? i have one employee.........mah shadow lol. and dad drives the truck.


----------



## bnmc98

No, its not my skidder, the guys I work for. Yes they have two other 3rd members actually. I cut and do some mechanic work for them which "technically" my title is timber faller and that is what I am a independent contractor to do, but the lines are grey and I end up doing quite a bit of skidding for them with their machine.


----------



## treeslayer2003

gonna have to pull both planetarys and axles......stump pans.......take a gear oil bath.......fun.


----------



## bnmc98

I think pull axles, bottom pans, and pull the axle housing out the back. Plan A anyway. We'll see. You know how that goes


----------



## treeslayer2003

oh yea....i never had a cat.......you will be greasy tho lol.


----------



## Skeans

We're the same way, dad drives, one employee, and me the Mexican lol


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## Skeans

Sounds like it's time for a deere skidder so you can unlock the axles less issues.


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## Skeans

treeslayer2003 said:


> oh yea....i never had a cat.......you will be greasy tho lol.


Cat a bad word in my mouth other then the dozer/track skidders the excavators log loaders I hate to work on. Deere, kobelco, doosan, even the old timberjack, or even timbco but cat stuff is expensive and too big. A good example is a Fabtek 2000 you can't buy without the fabtek/cat 501HD carrier now.


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## treeslayer2003

Skeans said:


> Sounds like it's time for a deere skidder so you can unlock the axles less issues.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


i have one......they worse imo.


----------



## Skeans

They don't jump in the landings like a cat will, I know the older cat skidder (518) had air brakes too.


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## Skeans

Sorry for the bias but running a bit of everything and owning a bit of everything I'll never own a cat again, unless it's for pushing stumps and roads.


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## treeslayer2003

thats cuz they don't pull with all four all the time. thats good some times.........some times it sucs. i like my old clarks, wish i could afford a later model one with a grapple. easiest to work on ever.


----------



## treeslayer2003

Skeans said:


> Sorry for the bias but running a bit of everything and owning a bit of everything I'll never own a cat again, unless it's for pushing stumps and roads.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


lol, every one has a favorite. i never had a cat skidder, did have a 944 loader, it was a good machine.


----------



## Skeans

The loader were ok, been around the newer 988's and the guys that run them here hate them they can't see because the cab is so slow the newer excavators look like a zero turn but they aren't and you can't see behind you so. We use to take the 440 and put the 540 grapple back ends on them for thinning, and then run that and a D4H track skidder with a 653 with a fabtek 2000 4 roller doing export.


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## treeslayer2003

y'all export small stems out there?


----------



## Skeans

Anymore they do, then it was for the companies. Now it's down to 9" to a 8" top depending on markets that are there. 32" butt is the prime size for Doug fir and white is up to 46" if I remember right but they don't pay as well same with anything over 32" Doug fir for export.


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## Skeans

The cycle around here is roughly 40 years clear cut maybe 35 years for Weyerhaeuser it's changed a lot so the bigger stuff is kind of sol anymore.


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## northmanlogging

get a little north, and they like up to 36" butts, and down to 8" with 6-7" going for chip and saw, Hemlock, Doug Fir, and White Fir all having more or less the same specs.

They pay less for the big butts bd ft wise, but you more then make up for it in volume, largest Doug I've sent in was 46"?, but I've sent Hemlocks that where at 48"... 

Weyco cuts too early in my opinion but I'm not a forester... or a mill dude... Kinda **** it all up for the rest of us...

For the really big stuff there are still 2 mills here that will take up to 9 feet.


----------



## treeslayer2003

the bigger the better for me, seems like a big poplar or white oak will export even with some defect where as a smaller log with defect will go for a lesser grade.


----------



## Skeans

We have for domestic mills one is speced at 32" max but on Doug fir, then an oversize mill up to 8' but they take and screw you hard on the scale. Then the two other domestic mills have a max butt size of 22". Chips anything goes with no chip and saw unless we're running in the valley. For export we have sent up to a 46" butt Doug Fir that was ring count wood 6+ rings an inch measured halfway out from the heart and anything over 32" butt anymore has to be a ring counter unless Korea is buying then it's 36".


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## Samlock

treeslayer2003 said:


> i got to have it



Copy it and take it to a printing shop, Mike. I just came up with the design yesterday. I don't know how your local Angels club would take the 'Filthy Few' - label, though.


----------



## Cfaller

bnmc98 said:


> I guess I'm not familiar with this. Do you mean cutting the the undercut with a snipe so that it rolls off to one side as it goes over? What are you exactly doing when you do it (cut wise I mean)?


It should look something like this.


----------



## bitzer

I've always liked Jacks videos. Hes given me a lot of ideas. I haven't watched em in a while. If you put in a narrow face, gut the heart and put a shallow dutchman across the width of the face she'll pop off the stump pretty quick. Gotta have er cut up tight tho. I'm not sure thats what he did there, but he did stay on it till the face nearly closed.


----------



## treeslayer2003

oh i see............well, yea..........thats close to a sort of a jump. i guess i have done something like that but a little different.....if i was on a hill that steep here the stick would have to go up hill.


----------



## bitzer

Too bad we can't hear what hes sayin. Probably had to slip it off to save the length.


----------



## HuskStihl

Huh....a great many of mine slide off the stump sideways. I had no idea I was such an advanced faller.


----------



## 1270d

By post count your one of the best around.


----------



## HuskStihl

1270d said:


> By post count your one of the best around.


Troofy!


----------



## northmanlogging

bitzer said:


> Too bad we can't hear what hes sayin. Probably had to slip it off to save the length.



Seem to remember him saying that he was trying to miss another stump a little up the hill... Bout the only reason I can see for side slipping.


----------



## coltont

Whoops. I'm Colton and 27


----------



## treeslayer2003

coltont said:


> Whoops. I'm Colton and 27


happy birthday!


----------



## coltont

Hey thanks.


----------



## bnmc98

Cfaller said:


> It should look something like this.



Pretty slick, I might find a use for that sometime. But then you have to buck the end

This was my day


----------



## bitzer

Well at least it ain't rainin or snowin. Yeah turning wrenches sucks. People are always shocked when they hear I do my repairs in the field. Yeah I'm guna pay to have it hauled to a shop and back while I'm already losing money. Sweet ride by the way.


----------



## treeslayer2003

hey, an oldie with a trouble matic lol. well i ain't the only one with old stuff.


----------



## bnmc98

bitzer said:


> And some more. Ok I'll quit buggin you guys for a while.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This last one pretty much sums up my day. Frustrating. It had a double crotch and if I would have sent it where it was leaning I would have lost the last log for sure, maybe two. Yeah I had to pull some fibers to do it though. Saved all the logs out and even the top logs. It made 3 10s and 3 12s.




Hey Bitzer. Are those cantines on your belt fuel and oil?


----------



## SliverPicker

I usually only side step a tree to avoid hanging it up. When they let go it seems the bigger trees give you more room for error. The inertia of the bigger stems is much greater. More predictable when they come down. The whole tree moves sideways. With the smaller ones they sometimes swing a bit instead of the whole tree shifting sideways.


----------



## treeslayer2003

SliverPicker said:


> I usually only side step a tree to avoid hanging it up. When they let go it seems the bigger trees give you more room for error. The inertia of the bigger stems is much greater. More predictable when they come down. The whole tree moves sideways. With the smaller ones they sometimes swing a bit instead of the whole tree shifting sideways.



whippey, i hate cuttin whippy sticks


----------



## bitzer

bnmc98 said:


> Hey Bitzer. Are those cantines on your belt fuel and oil?


Yes. Fuel, oil, and water. I can run two tanks thru without havin to go back to the jugs. That way I can work my way back to them. Saves time on walking. They took a little gettin used to, but don't get hung up as much as you'd think. Its also real handy when you're finshing a buck in a real limby top. You don't have to climb out to refuel and then climb back in again.


----------



## bnmc98

bitzer said:


> Yes. Fuel, oil, and water. I can run two tanks thru without havin to go back to the jugs. That way I can work my way back to them. Saves time on walking. They took a little gettin used to, but don't get hung up as much as you'd think. Its also real handy when you're finshing a buck in a real limby top. You don't have to climb out to refuel and then climb back in again.



What a great idea, I have never seen that before.


----------



## Skeans

I've taken quart bottles and cleaned them out with some rope hooked to my belt.


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## bitzer

bnmc98 said:


> What a great idea, I have never seen that before.


Yeah they're just some stainless steel water bottles. The o-ring goes bad on the fuel bottle pretty quick, but it seals up fine without it. I do drill a pin hole in the top so it can breathe tho.


----------



## SliverPicker

treeslayer2003 said:


> whippey, i hate cuttin whippy sticks



Or..maybe I'm just doing it wrong?


----------



## treeslayer2003

SliverPicker said:


> Or..maybe I'm just doing it wrong?


no good way.........feller buncher lol. i used to just jump um and run like hell....have several going down at once. i ain't that fast no more


----------



## chucker

treeslayer2003 said:


> no good way.........feller buncher lol. i used to just jump um and run like hell....have several going down at once. i ain't that fast no more


? and if you are as old as I am, I will bet that you still find day's that you are still faster than you ever were !! LOL


----------



## Gologit

chucker said:


> ? and if you are as old as I am, I will bet that you still find day's that you are still faster than you ever were !! LOL



Yup. 100 yard obstacle dash with saw...senior division. It should be an Olympic event.


----------



## coltont

I like when you run and the rose bushes catch you.


----------



## treeslayer2003

Gologit said:


> Yup. 100 yard obstacle dash with saw...senior division. It should be an Olympic event.


its amazing what you can go over or though with a 4' 30lbs saw..............


----------



## treeslayer2003

coltont said:


> I like when you run and the rose bushes catch you.


them, holly, green brier, black berry, devil cane..........i pulled a thorn out of my heel this morning, no clue how that happened or when.


----------



## northmanlogging

scareded a home owner today... Dusting a little alder next to a property line/fence/house... all lean one way and limbs the other.

Anyway she sat back just a little, almost gave the dude a heart attack... Wedges and everything was fine.


----------



## treeslayer2003

hmm, the file is to large? a 40 second vid? i have no clue how to post a vid or even how to send it to Jon...........its makin me feel dumb dammit!


----------



## 1270d

I don't know how to email a video. Do you have a YouTube account?


----------



## bnmc98

Cfaller said:


> It should look something like this.




Well, I tried this last friday. (just quoted the video for reference, not my vid) There was a small tree in a smz that I wanted to avoid without knocking it over or cutting it down to add to the stump tally. Was right in front of the tree I was cutting and in the way, so I thought I would try the slide off the stump and go around it. Needless to say it did not work. I did not want to hang around to chase the hinge so that the butt could flip up and hit me in the face as it hit the little tree in front of it.
It hinged just like any other and actually the root on the uphill side still had a hold of it, pulled it a little.

hinge probably needs to be gone as its going over, I am guessing.


----------



## Metals406

bnmc98 said:


> Well, I tried this last friday. (just quoted the video for reference, not my vid) There was a small tree in a smz that I wanted to avoid without knocking it over or cutting it down to add to the stump tally. Was right in front of the tree I was cutting and in the way, so I thought I would try the slide off the stump and go around it. Needless to say it did not work. I did not want to hang around to chase the hinge so that the butt could flip up and hit me in the face as it hit the little tree in front of it.
> It hinged just like any other and actually the root on the uphill side still had a hold of it, pulled it a little.
> 
> hinge probably needs to be gone as its going over, I am guessing.


Yup, it's gotta be free to work, tall sticks with weight helps.

In the video, Jack's cut'n 2nd growth reds -- real tall, enough canopy to act like a kite.


----------



## bnmc98

Gotcha, that's what I thought.


----------



## HuskStihl

treeslayer2003 said:


> hmm, the file is to large? a 40 second vid? i have no clue how to post a vid or even how to send it to Jon...........its makin me feel dumb dammit!


Try using the "attach a file" thingie on the email and see if the video will be compressed and sent


----------



## Trx250r180

wow 500 pages ,you would think a thread like this would have peaked 10,ooo a long time ago


----------



## treeslayer2003

1270d said:


> I don't know how to email a video. Do you have a YouTube account?


nope


----------



## treeslayer2003

HuskStihl said:


> Try using the "attach a file" thingie on the email and see if the video will be compressed and sent


tried that but it does not appear with the other pics.......it does here but apparently its to large a file


----------



## bnmc98

Kind of a geek comment, but do you have a way to re-render the video to a smaller different format. Or, you could try to use a thing like filezilla to store it on the web and he can download it from there.


----------



## treeslayer2003

its all over my head Brian..........can i file it? lol


----------



## bnmc98

treeslayer2003 said:


> its all over my head Brian..........can i file it? lol



C'mon, I know you learned all this stuff on that Apple IIe in 8th grade


----------



## bnmc98

...while you were playing Oregon Trail on your floppy disc.


----------



## treeslayer2003

yea..........failed that class......and typing


----------



## Gologit

treeslayer2003 said:


> yea..........failed that class......and typing


 Do what i do. Borrow a high school kid, or even a grammar school kid, and have them school you. It only hurts the ego for a little while.
I have a grandson that can never remember where he left his shoes but he can make a computer flat sit up and talk. What little I know about computers...and it's very little....I learned from him.


----------



## Cfaller

bnmc98 said:


> Well, I tried this last friday. (just quoted the video for reference, not my vid) There was a small tree in a smz that I wanted to avoid without knocking it over or cutting it down to add to the stump tally. Was right in front of the tree I was cutting and in the way, so I thought I would try the slide off the stump and go around it. Needless to say it did not work. I did not want to hang around to chase the hinge so that the butt could flip up and hit me in the face as it hit the little tree in front of it.
> It hinged just like any other and actually the root on the uphill side still had a hold of it, pulled it a little.
> 
> hinge probably needs to be gone as its going over, I am guessing.


I tried it one time and had about the same luck as you did. I'm thinking to pull this off, a narrow undercut, a sharp chain and a really fast cutting saw is needed. The biggest problem is having to stay with it longer then you should.


----------



## Metals406

Cfaller said:


> I tried it one time and had about the same luck as you did. I'm thinking to pull this off, a narrow undercut, a sharp chain and a really fast cutting saw is needed. The biggest problem is having to stay with it longer then you should.


Shallow face, gut it, leave a thin hinge. Cut out the back to free it.

The biggest help is a canopy that 'kites' and pushes on the butt once it's free.


----------



## HuskStihl

I'm guessing the tree would have to be fairly committed to its lean for that technique to work


----------



## Metals406

HuskStihl said:


> I'm guessing the tree would have to be fairly committed to its lean for that technique to work


Yup, you want some head lean, but it's not a deal breaker if it's not leaning hard.

The thing that matters is getting free of the stump about 1/3 of the committed distance -- and wind resistance pushing on the top as it falls.


----------



## bitzer

Mike- set up a youtube acct and then click upload. I will direct you from there. 


Full face dutchman, heart gutted, cut up tight. Pop and slip.


----------



## bnmc98

Ok, here's a couple videos (probably be a while before I get more video'd)

Ok, a few ugly stumps (compared to you guys). But, hey, I get the job done (or at least try). And I thought you guys might just like to see some trees come down.

This video there is a creek off to the right, behind me. and the last two trees you can't see me cutting, but you can hear the saw and see the results, so I left them in.


This one I probably should have stayed in it longer but I just don't like hanging around with snags in trees.


----------



## bitzer

Looks like fun timber to cut! So you had to pull em some to miss the creek?


----------



## Metals406

Definitely looks like Montanny fir. Fat on the butt, quick taper -- like a carrot.

I'm sure Randy Mac will be here shortly to call you a fiber puller. ;0)

LOL

That saw stock? Sounds stock.


----------



## Metals406

bitzer said:


> Looks like fun timber to cut! So you had to pull em some to miss the creek?


Most often them swelled butts get knocked off, either in the bush or at the landing -- specially if it's not a peeler and just saw logs.

So a little fiber outta the butt isn't a deal breaker for scale.

Whereas in the hardwoods, guys will keep the swell and just knock off some and the whole thing goes to the mill.

Think if it this way, everything is milled from the small end, so all that swollen butt would just end up as a slab and chipped/thrown out anyway.


----------



## bnmc98

bitzer said:


> Looks like fun timber to cut! So you had to pull em some to miss the creek?



I had to pull them a little to avoid the other trees. They weren't really leaning toward the creek thank goodness.


----------



## bnmc98

Metals406 said:


> Definitely looks like Montanny fir. Fat on the butt, quick taper -- like a carrot.
> 
> I'm sure Randy Mac will be here shortly to call you a fiber puller. ;0)
> 
> LOL
> 
> That saw stock? Sounds stock.



"Hi my name is Brian... and I'm a fiber puller"

Those trees are actually pretty good for us right now. Two log trees.

Yeah, stock 461 w dp muffler


----------



## Metals406

bnmc98 said:


> "Hi my name is Brian... and I'm a fiber puller"
> 
> Those trees are actually pretty good for us right now. Two log trees.
> 
> Yeah, stock 461 w dp muffler


I'm north of ya, so I recognize the wood.

It's funny how a guy can tell an area by eyeballin' it.

The fir around here are about the same, with some exceptions.


----------



## treeslayer2003

you montana boys got no hard wood? of course i mean bigguns lol.


----------



## treeslayer2003

bnmc98 said:


> "Hi my name is Brian... and I'm a fiber puller"
> 
> Those trees are actually pretty good for us right now. Two log trees.
> 
> Yeah, stock 461 w dp muffler


we all are at some point, you had the nutz to post what ever it was you were cuttin at the time


----------



## bnmc98

treeslayer2003 said:


> we all are at some point, you had the nutz to post what ever it was you were cuttin at the time



I have no shame. I don't claim to be that great of a timber faller, besides, it's great to see good and bad right? That way it can give others an ego boost when they see my cutting


----------



## Gologit

bnmc98 said:


> I have no shame. I don't claim to be that great of a timber faller, besides, it's great to see good and bad right? That way it can give others an ego boost when they see my cutting



Don't worry about it. I've had stuff turn out so ugly that I wrote my partner's initials on it for the scale.


----------



## treeslayer2003

Gologit said:


> Don't worry about it. I've had stuff turn out so ugly that I wrote my partner's initials on it for the scale.


LMAO on that one Bob lol.

meh.......just stumps........ugly stumps don't matter to the mill.


----------



## coltont

Whoops: . I might have had the hinge wood a little thin on this one. It got pushed a little harder than I expected and there you have it. No one got hurt the log is still good. Idk why but I decided to film the tree getting pushed . made for a good video


----------



## bitzer

So how did you get the tree off? Buck it? He came at it kinda fast too though.


Brian- i pulled the **** out of the butt of a good sized high value hard maple two days ago. Usually the forester pops out of nowhere when that happens to explain to me how we need to keep the wood in the logs. I looked around, just me and the squirrels, so I trimmed it and bucked it. Back to buisness. I wasn't baggin on ya man.


----------



## coltont

Yep bucked a 25 foot stick of it off and drove out from under it. Yea he came in a little hot. Maybe I should have cut it a little higher and got out of that irregular grain down low on the butt. It's all about that base........ Haha


----------



## bnmc98

bitzer said:


> So how did you get the tree off? Buck it? He came at it kinda fast too though.
> 
> 
> Brian- i pulled the **** out of the butt of a good sized high value hard maple two days ago. Usually the forester pops out of nowhere when that happens to explain to me how we need to keep the wood in the logs. I looked around, just me and the squirrels, so I trimmed it and bucked it. Back to buisness. I wasn't baggin on ya man.



I didn't think you were baggin on me.
I try not to do it, but I guess I have not perfected the technique (obviously; duh). I guess sometimes its difficult for me to justify all the extra time when most of the time doesn't really matter that much in the wood we are cutting.

I try not to junk up the woods as we are doing land clearing as well, so it all gets processed on the landing except for some trims on mismatched cuts or pulls like those (and obviously if the tree needs to be limbed and bucked because its too heavy to get out whole) but many times i have asked do you want the pull cut out of that butt, the answer is usually "no"

I still do try to get the best log to them though as I don't like to do "half jobs"
but I haven't yet figured out how to entirely get rid of the pull on some of these larger fir that are leaning and I have to try to persuade them a little in a different direction, or smack with wedges. I have found (and maybe I am going about it wrong) that if I am trying to pull them a little even, on some of them, unless I leave more hinge or set up a sisweel or something, that the sheer weight of the tree seems to just break the hinge as it goes over and they only get about halfway the direction that I want, or my face. And because of the leave trees that can and does suck when that happens.

Anyone else had that issue, and how do you overcome it?


----------



## northmanlogging

steep face, and raise yer back cut an inch or so, not to much, but just a wee bit.


----------



## treeslayer2003

yep, some think my faces are excessive steep. this timber loves to pull, steep face helps alot. i also go pretty deep on big trees......some times 50%


----------



## Skeans

A little cheating for the end of the week, got to love the 4 roller heads you can steer them in hardwoods.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bitzer

bnmc98 said:


> I didn't think you were baggin on me.
> I try not to do it, but I guess I have not perfected the technique (obviously; duh). I guess sometimes its difficult for me to justify all the extra time when most of the time doesn't really matter that much in the wood we are cutting.
> 
> I try not to junk up the woods as we are doing land clearing as well, so it all gets processed on the landing except for some trims on mismatched cuts or pulls like those (and obviously if the tree needs to be limbed and bucked because its too heavy to get out whole) but many times i have asked do you want the pull cut out of that butt, the answer is usually "no"
> 
> I still do try to get the best log to them though as I don't like to do "half jobs"
> but I haven't yet figured out how to entirely get rid of the pull on some of these larger fir that are leaning and I have to try to persuade them a little in a different direction, or smack with wedges. I have found (and maybe I am going about it wrong) that if I am trying to pull them a little even, on some of them, unless I leave more hinge or set up a sisweel or something, that the sheer weight of the tree seems to just break the hinge as it goes over and they only get about halfway the direction that I want, or my face. And because of the leave trees that can and does suck when that happens.
> 
> Anyone else had that issue, and how do you overcome it?



Do you use a dutchman to swing em in compliment with a sizwheel or extra holding wood?


----------



## Metals406

treeslayer2003 said:


> you montana boys got no hard wood? of course i mean bigguns lol.


Yup, we got birch and black cottonwood, some pretty big aspen -- maple, oak, chestnut, etc can be had -- just have to be in city limits or glean a yard tree if'n somebody out in the county planted one.

Hardest wood would be Black Hawthorn. It's my favorite all around 'use' wood.


----------



## bnmc98

northmanlogging said:


> steep face, and raise yer back cut an inch or so, not to much, but just a wee bit.



Thank you, I just learned something new.



bitzer said:


> Do you use a dutchman to swing em in compliment with a sizwheel or extra holding wood?



I have before, but for some reason I stopped and started trying to leave the whole bacon on the bigger trees. I think I had a few hinges go prematurely. I use a dutchman quite a bit on the smaller stuff.


----------



## bitzer

bnmc98 said:


> Thank you, I just learned something new.
> 
> 
> 
> I have before, but for some reason I stopped and started trying to leave the whole bacon on the bigger trees. I think I had a few hinges go prematurely. I use a dutchman quite a bit on the smaller stuff.


A soft dutchman will keep the stem moving and won't put as much pressure on the pull wood keeping it intact. Just a regular dutchman can put a lot of pressure on the hold wood. Using a root to help pull it works well. Also if you start your backcut from the dutchman side and cut across the stump to the pull side you can use the entire side of the stump to pull with.


----------



## HuskStihl

bnmc98 said:


> I have no shame. I don't claim to be that great of a timber faller, besides, it's great to see good and bad right? That way it can give others an ego boost when they see my cutting


Brian, this should make you feel better. I modded my muffler to cover my girly screaming

I know that NM and TS are all about the 461, but Bitz' ported 390 will get thru stuff more faster


----------



## bnmc98

bitzer said:


> A soft dutchman will keep the stem moving and won't put as much pressure on the pull wood keeping it intact. Just a regular dutchman can put a lot of pressure on the hold wood. Using a root to help pull it works well. Also if you start your backcut from the dutchman side and cut across the stump to the pull side you can use the entire side of the stump to pull with.



I can give er a try.
Just curious, at what size tree do you guys stop messing with the cuts and just go face/hinge? I've tried to pull some pretty big trees and they just ate me for lunch and spit me out laughing. 
The biggest wood I consistently cut around here is 30"-36". I have cut some 4' or a little over but that is a rarity.


----------



## coltont

If it's a stem with allot of value I'll clean out all the little trees from underneath it and dump it the way it wants to fall. Trying to swing a white oak or walnut that's 2 veneer logs high could cost you allot more than it saved you with your fancy swinging. Every tree is different. Id say if your trying to mess with big sticks of hardwood it's not worth it. Our mills despise pullers out of the butt. Softwood...........I can't say much there. I cut one site in wild and wonderful West Virgina's mountains that had some white pine that was 3' plus on the stump. I was kinda new to learning the tricks of where to keep your hold wood and how thick to leave it when your trying to quarter them up the hill so they didn't land in the drink and bust in half. Looking back I would have cut those trees 100% different theses days but it worked for me back when I cut it. Pine sucks I like hardwoods.


----------



## northmanlogging

bnmc98 said:


> I can give er a try.
> Just curious, at what size tree do you guys stop messing with the cuts and just go face/hinge? I've tried to pull some pretty big trees and they just ate me for lunch and spit me out laughing.
> The biggest wood I consistently cut around here is 30"-36". I have cut some 4' or a little over but that is a rarity.



This here is a 5' or so cedar leaning over a house cornered by a shop, and main power lines... 

Standing tree on the left.




And its final resting place, other then one limb, denting the shed roof, no other damage.



This one took a massive siz, and I cut all the far side hold wood off, hung two lines in it but they didn't do a whole lot of good... both went slack as soon as she started to move.


----------



## bitzer

There is usually a really heavy top or hard lean to contend with in my big timber. We don't get much bigger than 4 ft dbh on merch timber. It kinda goes tree by tree, but some you just have to let em go where they want. It also depends on species and stump shape. Some hardwoods hold to the stump better than others. If you have roots to use when pulling it will save out the butt of the log and still pull the tree around. I've swung some of the biggest timber we have here to save out the last logs or leave trees or make it easier to get the logs out or whatever. You really have to have em cut up just right or cut at the right time. Leaving to much wood can slow the swing and cause it to break off early. The same with too little. Its just feeling how much you need, reading the top or the stump as its moving. Nine times out of ten a regular dutchman and the right holding wood gets my trees swung. Rarely do I get get fancier than that. Knowing what you can get away with is about it. When I know a tree is committed to swinging into my lay I've cut the holding wood off that would pull out of the butt too. It took me a lot of time to get effcient at it. On a typical day I swing at least half the trees I'm cutting.


----------



## rwoods

northmanlogging said:


> This here is a 5' or so cedar *** hung two lines in it but they didn't do a whole lot of good... both went slack as soon as she started to move.



NM, right there is the reason right or wrong that I use a long stretchy 1" rope when possible. I pre-load it as much as I can and get 20 feet or more out of it before it goes slack. Of course with heavy wood or a high tie, the effect doesn't last that long. Ron


----------



## northmanlogging

was using cable, one to the missus to help pull the other tied off 90 deg to the lean, as a safety. The safety wasn't real tight at the start, and the skidder line only needed a little bump to get things moving, the rest was all cuts.


----------



## Metals406

Gologit said:


> Don't worry about it. I've had stuff turn out so ugly that I wrote my partner's initials on it for the scale. [emoji23]


ROLMFAO!!! [emoji1]


----------



## bnmc98

HuskStihl said:


> I know that NM and TS are all about the 461, but Bitz' ported 390 will get thru stuff more faster



I am sure a ported saw that is 10+ cc bigger can get the job done better.
At the same time, I do have a 288 and it doesn't have much of an edge on my 461. A little bit but sometimes not enough to justify the extra weight and fuel consumption. I do bring it out for some of my bigger stuff though.
In the stuff I cut, I bet if I had a ported 461 I wouldn't need much else, mines stock though.

I have thought about mm my 288 and getting the hd filter, but don't know if it's really worth it. stock filter seems to gum up pretty quick though, have to blow it out or retune fairly soon with fir cutting.


----------



## northmanlogging

Meh... gutted the exhaust on the first 461... didn't do much but make it louder, I hear if you put a 360 ignition module and drop loads of coin on a full build, the 461 is a screamer.

As in full proper port, pop up piston and shave the jug, along with an unlimited coil...

Otherwise the 461 keeps up with a stock 660/066 until you need a bigger bar. And while the 288 may have a leg up on it it does have more cubes... which should really mean a lot more...

Really though, sent 6 hours or so in the bushes today and only burned a tank and 3/4 or so, granted I spent most of that time fighting with black berries... still not sure if they won or not...


----------



## coltont

Get vengeance on those prick blackberrys!!!!! Pick them in a few months and make wine..... That'll show em.


----------



## northmanlogging

There the cruddy himalayan kind... Now if I could find me some of them mountain type... the low stringy vines and the tiny little berries, then we could make some brandy, jam and pie to kill over.


----------



## BeatCJ

Himalayas and Evergreens are fine if you strain the seeds. I'm even using the jam my wife made. Adds some texture to creamy peanut butter. "Yes, dear, I love the jam." I usually have plenty of fiber in my diet.


----------



## coltont

I'm game. I'll bring the elderberry's .


----------



## northmanlogging

The evergreens are pretty rare around here, not impossible to find...

The Mountain version are just sweeter and more fun to pick, only problem is that DNR has been gating roads so you can't get to em along with spraying to give the trees a head start... used to take my dog back when I was a pup... had to be careful cause he'd pick as many as you... come home with his snout all purple...

That and our alpine blue berries... both are a day long adventure for a few gallons of berries, not that that is a problem (unless your logging 3 days a week and working the other 5)

Looked at a piece of dirt a few weeks ago that was covered in the evergreen huckle berries... along with the various detritus of tweeker dom


----------



## HuskStihl

bnmc98 said:


> I am sure a ported saw that is 10+ cc bigger can get the job done better.
> At the same time, I do have a 288 and it doesn't have much of an edge on my 461. A little bit but sometimes not enough to justify the extra weight and fuel consumption. I do bring it out for some of my bigger stuff though.
> In the stuff I cut, I bet if I had a ported 461 I wouldn't need much else, mines stock though.
> 
> I have thought about mm my 288 and getting the hd filter, but don't know if it's really worth it. stock filter seems to gum up pretty quick though, have to blow it out or retune fairly soon with fir cutting.


Ya, my post didn't make much sense, go figure. I was thinking about avoiding fiber pull on a bigger one when using simple face and back cut falling. A bigger ported (just bigger never seems that much "faster") saw would make it easier to chase the hinge. On a topic I actually know about......the HD filter does help the 288. That stock one is just so damn small for a saw that size. Ported 288's cut pretty well, so I hear........


----------



## BeatCJ

We have a ton of elderberries around here, too. It's funny, the berries don't taste at all like the wine my grandpa used to make. Never had any that aren't so sour as to be inedible. The birds seem to love them, though.


----------



## coltont

Makes the best jelly ever. But be careful with the sugar..


----------



## _RJ_

Earlier today I was covered in briars and nettle. I'm thinning that crap out and cutting dead trees on my property.


----------



## northmanlogging

HuskStihl said:


> Ya, my post didn't make much sense, go figure. I was thinking about avoiding fiber pull on a bigger one when using simple face and back cut falling. A bigger ported (just bigger never seems that much "faster") saw would make it easier to chase the hinge. On a topic I actually know about......the HD filter does help the 288. That stock one is just so damn small for a saw that size. Ported 288's cut pretty well, so I hear........



So... not so deep of a face will help with the fiber pulling... gives you a chance to saw more of the hold wood before she commits, pretty much requires the use of a wedge though, of course this is useless on a hard leaner. And yes big cubes with high r's will help if you plan on chasing the hinge... me I prefer to run and hide when possible.


----------



## northmanlogging

_RJ_ said:


> Earlier today I was covered in briars and nettle. I'm thinning that crap out and cutting dead trees on my property.
> View attachment 417260
> 
> View attachment 417261



While on the subject of edibles... Nettles make a fairly decent pesto, as well as tea, and if you're into it soup.


----------



## bitzer

You guys can keep on with yer 70cc saws. Saves more wood for me to cut!

Seriously though, when I made the jump from 70-90cc I was cutting another hundred bucks worth of wood a day. From stock to ported another hundred. I'll spend the extra 2-3 bucks on gas to make another hundred or two. Yer arms will get bigger. I go through 2 gallons in 5-6 hours, but the saw only stops to refuel and spin a new chain on. 


I got what you were sayin Jon!


----------



## chucker

bitzer said:


> You guys can keep on with yer 70cc saws. Saves more wood for me to cut!
> 
> Seriously though, when I made the jump from 70-90cc I was cutting another hundred bucks worth of wood a day. From stock to ported another hundred. I'll spend the extra 2-3 bucks on gas to make another hundred or two. Yer arms will get bigger. I go through 2 gallons in 5-6 hours, but the saw only stops to refuel and spin a new chain on.
> 
> 
> I got what you were sayin Jon!


!! "WELCOME " !! BITZ, TO THE POWER CLUB....... nothing like the feel of power running through your hands that is in your control! LOL KINDA MAKES YOU TINGLE ALL THE WAY TO THE END OF YOUR TOE'S WITH DELIGHT..........


----------



## Trx250r180

northmanlogging said:


> Meh... gutted the exhaust on the first 461... didn't do much but make it louder, I hear if you put a 360 ignition module and drop loads of coin on a full build, the 461 is a screamer.
> 
> As in full proper port, pop up piston and shave the jug, along with an unlimited coil...
> 
> Otherwise the 461 keeps up with a stock 660/066 until you need a bigger bar. And while the 288 may have a leg up on it it does have more cubes... which should really mean a lot more...
> 
> Really though, sent 6 hours or so in the bushes today and only burned a tank and 3/4 or so, granted I spent most of that time fighting with black berries... still not sure if they won or not...


I played with coils ,the 360 one will run on the saw ,but best performance you want one off a 460 or a 660 for the 461 ,needs to be a poly flywheel saw ,i have a 460 coil on mine ,can limb a tree now without it bouncing off the rev limiter all the time ,the 461 is strong ported also ,my neighbor heard mine and asked what type of saw it was ,never heard one that sounded so happy he said .


----------



## coltont

70cc saws just don't have the ass. When you get pinched and your running a big hammer more often than not if it's not to bad you can full throttle through the pinch and cut it out. Not with a pee pee 70cc firewood saw. Ha!!!!!!!!


----------



## 1270d

But, but, but.... You mean you use your falling saw for limbing???


----------



## coltont

I did once. Then I remember that wasn't the way to do it and walked 900 yards to the truck and got my other saw..


----------



## coltont

I will say that I try not to use my timber saw for cutting up in the landing....... That's two different ways of sharpening.


----------



## 1270d

Whew. Good thing. Hate to turn into one of "those guys" that use the same size saw for everything..


I do understand having a different grind or something a bit more durable for landing work.


----------



## Trx250r180

coltont said:


> 70cc saws just don't have the ass. When you get pinched and your running a big hammer more often than not if it's not to bad you can full throttle through the pinch and cut it out. Not with a pee pee 70cc firewood saw. Ha!!!!!!!!


You just need the right top end on em


----------



## coltont

Leave the rakers higher. The boulders in the ground will be about .0076467% nicer on your chain.


----------



## mdavlee

coltont said:


> Leave the rakers higher. The boulders in the ground will be about .0076467% nicer on your chain.


Where in PA are you at? I'm near Berwick this week


----------



## coltont

I'm in Blair county. Bedford county as well . our job is in both ..... Kind on the line I suppose.


----------



## mdavlee

coltont said:


> I'm in Blair county. Bedford county as well . our job is in both ..... Kind on the line I suppose.


Ok I was just wondering. I saw a john Deere skidder on the side of 93 today.


----------



## coltont

Not us. We are almost 2 miles off the hard road. Cell phones are useless on site. They are nothing more than a time telling device.


----------



## mdavlee

coltont said:


> Not us. We are almost 2 miles off the hard road. Cell phones are useless on site. They are nothing more than a time telling device.


It looks like your 100 miles or a little more away from here. You were just the first PA guy I thought of.


----------



## northmanlogging

Have both 70 ish cc and 90+ cc... The 066 is a bad mofo in the right timber, but most of what I cut isn't real big, so dragging that extra weight for the slower chain speed isn't really worth it. 

Keep in mind its 2 different types of timber, our's is tall and loaded with lots of little limbs. Where as the hardwood guys have relatively short timber and a handful of large limbs. Totally makes sense to drag a big cube saw around, where with me I spend most of the day limbing...

Any my landing/skidder saw is a wimpy 260, 50cc... or maybe less.

Though the 066 with an 8 pin and short bar is pretty fun its a little goofy trying to fall a 36" hemlock with a 20" bar on steep ground.. and limbing really sucks.


----------



## bitzer

northmanlogging said:


> Have both 70 ish cc and 90+ cc... The 066 is a bad mofo in the right timber, but most of what I cut isn't real big, so dragging that extra weight for the slower chain speed isn't really worth it.
> 
> Keep in mind its 2 different types of timber, our's is tall and loaded with lots of little limbs. Where as the hardwood guys have relatively short timber and a handful of large limbs. Totally makes sense to drag a big cube saw around, where with me I spend most of the day limbing...
> 
> 
> Any my landing/skidder saw is a wimpy 260, 50cc... or maybe less.
> 
> Though the 066 with an 8 pin and short bar is pretty fun its a little goofy trying to fall a 36" hemlock with a 20" bar on steep ground.. and limbing really sucks.



You may change yer mind when the saw is feeding you and paying the bills. I did. I couldn't get enough wood cut in a day. The wife was telling me to file bankruptcy in my first year. The 90cc was a major turning point. Anything less than that and yer just screwing around. Chain speed is going to be faster with a 90cc vs. a 70cc with the same b&c set up in the same wood anyday. They are set to turn the same rpms and one has more torque. A 70cc saw just seems faster. Ask Icepick. He ran a 460 while I ran my 390. Both saws I ported and mm. We've got plenty of limbing to do here too. I know how conifers can be. I think Hammerlogging said it best (paraphrase here) 'a good faller can rip that much harder with a 90cc saw'. We could have this discussion all day I guess. Thats just what I've learned the hard way. Icepick did too.


----------



## HuskStihl

It's different for Stihl guys as the 066/660 is probably no faster than a 461. Once they get their mitts on a 661 they'll feel differently.


----------



## treeslayer2003

really depends on what i'm cutting. big oak, the ported 660. on poplar under 30" the 461 does a fantastic job and is much lighter. however, i am seldom in a hurry falling.


----------



## coltont

I use my 661 for every tree I cut down. I never ever worry about being under powered when I'm chasing a big one then. BTW I put an 8 tooth on the 661 today....... It's a night and day difference compared to the 7 tooth. I'm sticking with the 8. Seems like you can push on it more. I've never really noticed munch of a difference on other saws and switching sprockets. The 661 just plain eats. While it sips fuel.


----------



## 1270d

Our guys ran 2100s, then after they went, 288's. Now the 385's and 390's. Using them for 99% limbing hardwoods chasing a buncher. I agree with bitz pretty much. The 70 and under saws lack sack for sure.


----------



## Trx250r180

1270d said:


> Our guys ran 2100s, then after they went, 288's. Now the 385's and 390's. Using them for 99% limbing hardwoods chasing a buncher. I agree with bitz pretty much. The 70 and under saws lack sack for sure.


Running stock saws or modded ?


----------



## 1270d

Stock. There was one of the blue top 288's for a while that had been done up somewhere out your way. That was the only modified one. Always had real good chains though.


----------



## 1270d

Nothing against ported saws, just something we didn't do. Get about a year of use out of a saw.


----------



## bitzer

coltont said:


> I use my 661 for every tree I cut down. I never ever worry about being under powered when I'm chasing a big one then. BTW I put an 8 tooth on the 661 today....... It's a night and day difference compared to the 7 tooth. I'm sticking with the 8. Seems like you can push on it more. I've never really noticed munch of a difference on other saws and switching sprockets. The 661 just plain eats. While it sips fuel.


I've been running an 8 pin on mine since I was cutting soft maple all winter. Now that I'm back into the good hardwoods I've noticed I can't horse it in hard maple backcuts like the 7 pin. I've got to keep my rakers up a little more. Otherwise it kicks ass. Next you need the big five point dogs Colton. Especially where yer makin yer stump heights. That bottom spike really helps on the leverage around the stump swells.


----------



## bitzer

1270d said:


> Nothing against ported saws, just something we didn't do. Get about a year of use out of a saw.


I get a year out of mine too. Usually the only thing that hasn't been replaced or rattled off the saw is the p&c. And all that needs is a re-ring. Too bad there isn't enough saw to go with it.


----------



## coltont

I've got a 660 running everyday that got a bottom end 2 years ago. In October it will be on its 4th year of cutting timber. Still does a great job it's just not a new saw.


----------



## northmanlogging

Not to totally geek out on ya all, but the 461 is 76.5cc That would be more than 70cc... ;just sayin...

Oddly the 661 is 91.1cc where the 660 is 91.6?

2-3? years on the first 461 never had an issue, ran it over once, wore out a couple of bars with it... still runs strong, Think I've tinkered with the carb like twice.. do too elevation... otherwise gas oil pull er twice and go. Its one of the first ones made too...


----------



## Trx250r180

northmanlogging said:


> Not to totally geek out on ya all, but the 461 is 76.5cc That would be more than 70cc... ;just sayin...
> 
> Oddly the 661 is 91.1cc where the 660 is 91.6?
> 
> 2-3? years on the first 461 never had an issue, ran it over once, wore out a couple of bars with it... still runs strong, Think I've tinkered with the carb like twice.. do too elevation... otherwise gas oil pull er twice and go. Its one of the first ones made too...


My modded 461 is real close wearing a 32 inch bar to my modded 660 ,can not tell the difference till i put the 36 or 41 inch on ,then the tourque of the 660 makes a difference ,this is cutting softwoods .


----------



## northmanlogging

yup...

Now a husky 390 whatever will ugly up a 660 in a fair fight so I can see bitz's point as well... Though I'd like to get my greasy paws on a 661...


----------



## coltont

You won't be disappointed with the 661.


----------



## Trx250r180

chain helps too


----------



## northmanlogging

Speaking of which I got me a grinder awhile back, world of difference vs hand filing. consistency is awesome.


----------



## Trx250r180

northmanlogging said:


> Speaking of which I got me a grinder awhile back, world of difference vs hand filing. consistency is awesome.


Took me a while to figure mine out ,i still try different angles ,getting the stops set left to right so both sides are even is the important part ,i used to not use the stops ,big mistake for getting even cutters ,the blue wheel gives me the best edge so far ,just can not be heavy handed grinding with it .


----------



## northmanlogging

Got mine used. Came with a spare wheel and motor. Need to get new stop fingers for it, they have seen better days, otherwise it skookum unit. Managed to work my way through all the chains I didn't feel like hand filing over the slowdown.

Think when I wear out the blue wheels that came with it I'll get something a little more aggressive though, I'm used to grinders having more balls, so I burn up the blues pretty fast.

Pretty comfortable with the top angle now (no Idea what it is?) and just need to dial in the side angle, got bumped a little during shipping so I'm still playing with it, right now its just about 90 finished at the tooth, like -15 on the wheel?

For now I have to scale each side until they are right, one of the stop fingers is shorter then the other... and not much left for adjustment.


----------



## treeslayer2003

Trx250r180 said:


> chain helps too
> View attachment 417790




i was hoping the pics would both be there to compare.........file looks pretty close


----------



## treeslayer2003

northmanlogging said:


> yup...
> 
> Now a husky 390 whatever will ugly up a 660 in a fair fight so I can see bitz's point as well... Though I'd like to get my greasy paws on a 661...


mmm........idk bout that, stock for stock they both suc imo. ported they both very good. 394 will pee on a 660s head but its heavy.


----------



## KiwiBro

Trx250r180 said:


> chain helps too
> View attachment 417790


Is it me or are those rakers pretty high? Is is something with square filed/ground chain that the rakers shouldn't be or need to be down much? Or maybe it's just the camera angle?


----------



## treeslayer2003

kiwi, Brian's are prolly lower than mine. i run at .020, you will find that the better and more aggressive the file, the higher the rakers must be to avoid catching/stalling.


----------



## northmanlogging

Seems like the square likes a little taller raker/rider/whatever they're called. Square can be very aggressive and likes to stall.


----------



## KiwiBro

Thanks fellas.


----------



## Metals406

I like .027"-.030" all around for stops.


----------



## KiwiBro

I keep forgetting this is the logging section and not the bucking/blocking all day for firewood section. If i stall out an angry chain when blocking up for firewood, the tree isn't going to squash me, fall on something it shouldn't, or morph from a premium log into fibre-pulled and split ugly.



Metals406 said:


> I like .027"-.030" all around for stops.


 To be honest, I don't really know what the step is on mine. I just try to hit about 7 or 8 degrees from cutter tip to raker regardless of raker depth if I want a smooth chain and anything much above 10 degrees gets pretty hairy and no doubt not much good for the saw but heck it's fun.


----------



## Trx250r180

treeslayer2003 said:


> View attachment 417836
> 
> i was hoping the pics would both be there to compare.........file looks pretty close



Your file job looks real close to the new angles i am going to try ,nice work sir 



KiwiBro said:


> Is it me or are those rakers pretty high? Is is something with square filed/ground chain that the rakers shouldn't be or need to be down much? Or maybe it's just the camera angle?


The advantage of the square is you can run higher rakers ,in that pic they are about .025 with my little measure jig tool ,The higher rakers ,and eliminating the hook from round makes the chain so much smoother ,i can set my bar tip on a log one handed and bore in and it is smooth ,i have yet to do that with round ,and not being so grabby frees up power in the saw so it is not loads so hard on the clutch ,win win all around ,as long as you have a way ,or know how to sharpen it is good stuff ,if i run .020 or less in fir my chips look like this ,higher raker makes longer chips ,this was not noodling either ,it was bucking


----------



## KiwiBro

Trx250r180 said:


> my chips look like this ,higher raker makes longer chips ,this was not noodling either ,it was bucking View attachment 417881



Beautiful. Thanks.


----------



## Trx250r180

northmanlogging said:


> Got mine used. Came with a spare wheel and motor. Need to get new stop fingers for it, they have seen better days, otherwise it skookum unit. Managed to work my way through all the chains I didn't feel like hand filing over the slowdown.
> 
> Think when I wear out the blue wheels that came with it I'll get something a little more aggressive though, I'm used to grinders having more balls, so I burn up the blues pretty fast.
> 
> Pretty comfortable with the top angle now (no Idea what it is?) and just need to dial in the side angle, got bumped a little during shipping so I'm still playing with it, right now its just about 90 finished at the tooth, like -15 on the wheel?
> 
> For now I have to scale each side until they are right, one of the stop fingers is shorter then the other... and not much left for adjustment.


this is about where my tops end up 20 ish ? degrees


gonna add this pic ,the chain just looks hungry to me from this angle ,lol


----------



## treeslayer2003

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/8VcUW4MFgDU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


----------



## treeslayer2003

evidently i have posted a link.........also a first even if thats not what i meant to do. maybe y'all can see it any way.


----------



## HuskStihl

I saw it! Pretty boring. My videos have lots more running and screaming. That's how to chase a hinge and not be a fiber puller. Thanks for fighting thru the tech issues


----------



## Skeans

Is it me or is just a west coast thing for wearing hard hats?


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## treeslayer2003

my back cut was a touch high, twin stump in the way and not always use to the full wrap yet.


----------



## treeslayer2003

Skeans said:


> Is it me or is just a west coast thing for wearing hard hats?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


i'd wear one if i could find one that will stay on my head.


----------



## Skeans

You get use to it even looking up and down, I hardly ever have mine come off


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## treeslayer2003

i have had a couple of the ones with the ear muffs built in, they will stay on but i want to hear whats going on with the tree.


----------



## Skeans

Full brim tin hat only way to go even the skull bucket ones work good.


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## Spotted Owl

Skeans said:


> Full brim tin hat only way to go even the skull bucket ones work good.



My full brim has saved me more than once for sure, I wear plastic though. Skull buckets don't fit right and I really dislike ratchet suspensions. Also once from a flying chain. Never cut them, but, maybe hardwood doesn't shed like our stuff does.



treeslayer2003 said:


> i'd wear one if i could find one that will stay on my head.



You got a full head of hair? I know when mine gets long enough it will push the hat right off my head, or let it slide off?



Owl


----------



## bitzer

Mike you did it ya old coot! Nice work chasin. Yeah you need to get a full brim. I have ear plugs in and can hear everything. Bugz too for the eyes. I caught a good limb in the head a week ago that would have sent me to the ER. Not the first time. Your head ain't that special that a hard hat won't fit it! I have never owned nor will I own the forestry type hard hat. 

Spotted- you wouldn't believe the type of **** exploding and flying back at you in hardwood select cut. Especially in bigger timber. Our trees are a lot wider canopy so there is a lot breaking and flying around.


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## CapitaineHaddoc




----------



## HuskStihl

Y'all really need to be wearing hearing protection as much of the time as you can. "Hear me now, and believe me later" (Hans and Franz)


----------



## northmanlogging

full brim with the extra loop thing that goes around the back of your skull, helps hold it on a little more better. Mine falls off probably once a day, but it has saved my ass several times.


----------



## SliverPicker

treeslayer2003 said:


> i have had a couple of the ones with the ear muffs built in, they will stay on but i want to hear whats going on with the tree.



I've found that the rubber ear plugs with the "stem" thing on them work good. They don't block all that much sound. The tapered foam ones are too quiet. The squared off foam ones work too if you cut them in half and wear half in each ear. That's my 2/100ths of a $.


----------



## Skeans

I've found out of the wheels I've tried to orange salmon wheels seems to work the best with not burning the wheels, I do know some guys use wax or the wax wheels but I've never cared for how they cut. Rakers are set at .25 with an oregon 510/511 grinder works great for that.


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## Trx250r180

Something to try on your wheel dressing ,my cutters sometimes came out with forward lean like you have in this pic ,if dress the wheel so the side is more up and down it will cut a little better ,i just ran one last night i ground with no lean ,i liked it a lot


----------



## Skeans

Have to change my dresser position or the position of the carriage, it's a pro sharp when I have played with the setting I always go back to the factory B position 


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## Skeans

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## treeslayer2003

Spotted Owl said:


> My full brim has saved me more than once for sure, I wear plastic though. Skull buckets don't fit right and I really dislike ratchet suspensions. Also once from a flying chain. Never cut them, but, maybe hardwood doesn't shed like our stuff does.
> 
> 
> 
> You got a full head of hair? I know when mine gets long enough it will push the hat right off my head, or let it slide off?
> 
> 
> 
> Owl


lol, not any more........bed post rubbed it off they say. i think it was three youngans and a woods full of junk breaking down done it lol.



bitzer said:


> Mike you did it ya old coot! Nice work chasin. Yeah you need to get a full brim. I have ear plugs in and can hear everything. Bugz too for the eyes. I caught a good limb in the head a week ago that would have sent me to the ER. Not the first time. Your head ain't that special that a hard hat won't fit it! I have never owned nor will I own the forestry type hard hat.
> 
> Spotted- you wouldn't believe the type of **** exploding and flying back at you in hardwood select cut. Especially in bigger timber. Our trees are a lot wider canopy so there is a lot breaking and flying around.


yea, its like a grenade went off up there. i normally do get out of dodge and get behind a big stem if i can. prolly should look into a real lid, maybe the west coast lids fit better......every thing else from out there seems to be better.


----------



## treeslayer2003

mr. skeans likes a block face, so do i, it works good for me in hardwood to steer with out much fiber pull. i guess now that i can do vids, i will have to show Jon some different things i do with hardwood.

i have some field edge pine i think a sizwheel will work well on...........i understand what it does and how, i just have trouble with the order of the cuts in my head.


----------



## Skeans

I do a block here and there just to stay sharp on them, in front of that one was a small pile of brush and vine maple so it helped save it out. 9 times out of 10 I use a humboldt


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## CapitaineHaddoc




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## northmanlogging

Les quelques branches qui cherchent drôles que vous avez là.

ahem... them some funny looking branches you have there...



No I don't speak french... or english really....


----------



## dhskier2

Capitaine- who's the maker of your dolmar (fuel/oil container) there? Is that center black part a tool pouch you strapped to it, or part of it?


----------



## Gypo Logger

northmanlogging said:


> Les quelques branches qui cherchent drôles que vous avez là.
> 
> ahem... them some funny looking branches you have there...
> 
> 
> 
> No I don't speak french... or english really....


En Roulant Ma Boule.


----------



## bitzer

Nice clean block face Skeans! Is the hardwood alder? I can't what most anything is out your way with all the moss. Wood looks almost like hard maple or beech.

Nice pics Captain! What kind of wood is that in your first pic? Looks like some fun ground.


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## chucker

bitzer said:


> Nice clean block face Skeans! Is the hardwood alder? I can't what most anything is out your way with all the moss. Wood looks almost like hard maple or beech.
> 
> Nice pics Captain! What kind of wood is that in your first pic? Looks like some fun ground.


 hey bitzer, alder is a crazy wood ...looks a lot like our hard maple crossed with the grain pattern of birch. when split the fine grain will show hollow pockets in the growth rings(same as maple like a small grain of rice) almost like it started to rot? thinking this is from sap storage, why I am not sure, while splitting this it's almost to easy! smooth/tough barked tree with a mind of its own. wish we had it back here! OBW... remember moss grows thickest on the N. side of the whole tree? lol


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## CapitaineHaddoc

dhskier2 said:


> Capitaine- who's the maker of your dolmar (fuel/oil container) there? Is that center black part a tool pouch you strapped to it, or part of it?


Not a Dolmar can, it is Oregon branded. And yes, this is a double tool pouch, very useful!


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## CapitaineHaddoc

bitzer said:


> Nice clean block face Skeans! Is the hardwood alder? I can't what most anything is out your way with all the moss. Wood looks almost like hard maple or beech.
> 
> Nice pics Captain! What kind of wood is that in your first pic? Looks like some fun ground.


This is black spruce, twice heavier than spruce and a bit harder. Terrain is really steep here, and there's a lot of cliff's everywhere. I really like this kind of work, but the skidder will become crazy [emoji1]


----------



## northmanlogging

chucker said:


> hey bitzer, alder is a crazy wood ...looks a lot like our hard maple crossed with the grain pattern of birch. when split the fine grain will show hollow pockets in the growth rings(same as maple like a small grain of rice) almost like it started to rot? thinking this is from sap storage, why I am not sure, while splitting this it's almost to easy! smooth/tough barked tree with a mind of its own. wish we had it back here! OBW... remember moss grows thickest on the N. side of the whole tree? lol



Wut?

Moss grows everywhere here... north, south, bottom, moving cars... all the things you where told as a boy to not get lost in the woods are meaningless...

Never seen a hollow in a growth ring on our Alder... does split nicely though.


----------



## northmanlogging

Gypo Logger said:


> En Roulant Ma Boule.



Uh... I don't get ? google says "rolling in my ball"


----------



## chucker

northmanlogging said:


> Wut?
> 
> Moss grows everywhere here... north, south, bottom, moving cars... all the things you where told as a boy to not get lost in the woods are meaningless...
> 
> Never seen a hollow in a growth ring on our Alder... does split nicely though.


you are right about one thing north! "moss grows everywhere" or where does it not grow ? that was the point of the ? mark! lol except under a pair of working boot's!


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## Trx250r180

northmanlogging said:


> Uh... I don't get ? google says "rolling in my ball"


And if they have a nice lean, you can split them halfway up the tree on the back cut,saves a lot of axe work later.


OOps ,was suposed to quote the post above this one .


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## CapitaineHaddoc




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## Metals406

treeslayer2003 said:


> mr. skeans likes a block face, so do i, it works good for me in hardwood to steer with out much fiber pull. i guess now that i can do vids, i will have to show Jon some different things i do with hardwood.
> 
> i have some field edge pine i think a sizwheel will work well on...........i understand what it does and how, i just have trouble with the order of the cuts in my head.


Watch a bunch if Cody's videos, he does a lot if sizwell stuff. Particularly his snag videos.

Search 'Tarzan Thomas' on YouTube. 

You can also combine a sizwell with a swinging D to really pull a tree.


----------



## 1270d

does anyone know if this is the same Black Spruce that grow s here. Typically in swamps.


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## jwilly

My Grandson working March 2014


----------



## chucker

train them young the right way! train them smart in safety! train them best with their eye's and ears! train them to live to be and old fat man sitting in a rocker @90 !!


----------



## chucker

1270d said:


> does anyone know if this is the same Black Spruce that grow s here. Typically in swamps.


it don't resemble any from the north end of the state, with loaded limbs hanging low or color! bottom end looks more like white spruce ,even somewhat like white pine in the mid/top....


----------



## KiwiBro

chucker said:


> sitting in a rocker @90 !!


 that he built, on the porch of the house he built, with the lumber he milled, from the trees he felled, from the forest his father and grandfather planted and thinned. That's the sort of legacy this 1st generation wood hack covets.


----------



## Skeans

bitzer said:


> Nice clean block face Skeans! Is the hardwood alder? I can't what most anything is out your way with all the moss. Wood looks almost like hard maple or beech.
> 
> Nice pics Captain! What kind of wood is that in your first pic? Looks like some fun ground.



The hardwood was alder, I have a little maple on the whole place but not much.


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## Skeans

Trx250r180 said:


> And if they have a nice lean, you can split them halfway up the tree on the back cut,saves a lot of axe work later.
> 
> 
> OOps ,was suposed to quote the post above this one .



Or pull half the stump swinging them around less stumping later.


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## Skeans

CapitaineHaddoc said:


> View attachment 418320
> 
> View attachment 418323
> 
> View attachment 418321
> 
> View attachment 418324
> 
> View attachment 418322
> 
> View attachment 418319
> 
> View attachment 418325



You guys can leave part of the face on the butts? Not required to square them up?


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## Skeans

A little cheating after lunch get for blow down and nice not having tail swing to worry about.


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## northmanlogging

CapitaineHaddoc said:


> View attachment 418320
> 
> View attachment 418323
> 
> View attachment 418321
> 
> View attachment 418324
> 
> View attachment 418322
> 
> View attachment 418319
> 
> View attachment 418325


Except for the upside down face cut, could totaley be from out here.


----------



## CapitaineHaddoc

Skeans said:


> You guys can leave part of the face on the butts? Not required to square them up?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


We always leave this part, but we fix the logger's tape after it when we measure the tree.


----------



## Skeans

Some smaller stuff from last year boring the hearts and dominoing them.


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## Skeans

What would you guys pay for a simington chain grinder?


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## northmanlogging

Used or new, got mine used for I think 450? maybe 500? probably paid a little too much... But they are hard to find.


----------



## Skeans

Just saw a used one I may go pick up I know a few guys looking for grinders.


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## mdavlee

If it's a newer style ine with the adjustable arms in good shape $500 wouldn't be bad.


----------



## Skeans

It's the 450


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## Metals406

I paid $250 for mine, shipped from OR.

Unfortunately, the guy just tossed it in an oversized box, no padding or nothing. By the time it got to me, the table was busted in half, screws bent, light broke.

I was pissed. . . Fixable though.


----------



## Skeans

Ouch, I don't like the looks of a swing arm compared to like my pro sharp, are they as accurate?


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## northmanlogging

Swing arm is pretty nice, just have to pay attention to your adjustments.


----------



## Skeans

Maybe I'll go pick it up play with it for a week or two to make sure I know how to use it and resell it. Any advice on learning how they grind?


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## northmanlogging

Simmington's web site, simmington.com? they have some pretty good vids with the creator walking you through set up etc, of course its on the newer 451c so its got some fancier adjustments then the ole 450 but basically the same. 

Really though its a matter of dressing the wheel to the angles you like, (go slow and don't take much off at a time) grinder should come with both dressing screws, then use the stop screws to set your depth of cut, get the peak of the wheel in the corner of your tooth, and set both sides to grind to the same length.

Should be 3 adjuster screws on on each side to adjust side plate depth and one on the swing arm to adjust top plate depth.

Watch the vid it explains everything in captain dummy talk.

Spend a few hours getting to know it and you won't go back to hand filing...


----------



## Skeans

I already own a pro sharp I use daily so I understand the angles and what not, I just meant learn to use it to resell it.


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## northmanlogging

ah... I see now... pro sharp the one that moves back and forth? Cause there is Silvey that is very similar to the Simmington?


----------



## Skeans

Yeah the swing arm and razor sharp 1&2, a pro sharp moves a carriage back and forth towards the wheel with an adjuster that pulls the carriage actually into the wheel


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## treeslayer2003

a few from today, no time for a vid.



the bigger ones were cut with the 660, i forgot the camera. a small siswheel, playin really, it worked fairly well.


----------



## treeslayer2003

descent timber. last pic shows i'm getting close to the road......a busy one, gonna have to be care full.


----------



## coltont

Wow your tulip poplar has allot more of a brown green color than ours. I love cutting poplar!!


----------



## treeslayer2003

some of it does, some is almost pure white, just never know till ya cut it.


----------



## treeslayer2003

this one is lighter but not white. the pure white pays more.


----------



## treeslayer2003

Coltan, what are you in now?


----------



## coltont

Our white stuff veneers pretty quick. But getting one white enough happens about as often as not dulling your saw in the landing.


----------



## treeslayer2003

just about every foot of this is export, veneer or some type of grade.......right on up, very last log is the only sawlog.


----------



## Skeans

treeslayer2003 said:


> View attachment 419261
> View attachment 419262
> View attachment 419263
> View attachment 419264
> 
> descent timber. last pic shows i'm getting close to the road......a busy one, gonna have to be care full.


Time to get a jack set up for the road?


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## treeslayer2003

could be..........i think i can swing or wedge most of them. the thing to remember is the whip it knocks over........doubles the length.


----------



## coltont

I'm in patch of junk rite now. I'll be in a patch of big hammers next week or so. Ill take pictures


----------



## Skeans

treeslayer2003 said:


> could be..........i think i can swing or wedge most of them. the thing to remember is the whip it knocks over........doubles the length.


Set them up and use the farthest back as a driver and start dominoing them


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## treeslayer2003

coltont said:


> I'm in patch of junk rite now. I'll be in a patch of big hammers next week or so. Ill take pictures


we all cut that some times........can't be in high cotton all the time.


----------



## Skeans

I'll see if I can get the guy I'm doing some cutting for to snap a few this evening, the fun of moon lighting


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## Metals406

That heartwood is crazy looking!

Thanks for the pics Mike!


----------



## treeslayer2003

these trees are old, thats why the hearts so big........next step for them would be hollow, there is a few in this tract.


----------



## coltont

Once you've been on a high cotton job for 8 or 9 months the low cotton jobs really suck. But as you guys know if you invest money on a tract of big timber it's gotta get cut soon. Sometimes cutting timber is like scratching a lottery ticket.


----------



## coltont

Plus I'm running the stupid clumsy hard turning tree skinning lazy man grapple skidder since mines in the shop. Personally I'd much rather drag cable than worry about what hydraulic line is going to leak today.


----------



## treeslayer2003

all of um lol.


----------



## coltont

My 93 540E is 10 times the machine our 98 548GII is. Buy I'm a bias prick too....


----------



## Skeans

You guys and your cable machines, are there many swinging grapple machines out there?


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## treeslayer2003

i have several cable skidders and a grapple. no swingers around here but i can see how it would work well.


----------



## Skeans

They do with bunching grapples on them, only bad part is the load rating isn't as high and no winch I've ever seen rigged on one from the factory but no reason you couldn't do what timber pro did on one of their harvesters and put a block on the side of the boom.


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## northmanlogging

I don't think I could log half of what I do with a grapple skidder, just too steep. With the cable I can stay on top of a ridge... usually... be fairly safe...

A grapple has to get up close and personal with a log to drag it in.


----------



## Skeans

Sounds like good ground for for a 517 527 you'd be amazed what you can do with one of them, ours is a fixed grapple and you really can push it, bad enough you can stand on the dash or pray real good.


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## coltont

I'm opposed to the grapple machine because of how much it tears up. A good operator can really help that but you still skin up allot of trees when your pulling wood since you have to get rite to every tree to get a holt of it to get it out.


----------



## Gologit

They're great on clear cuts. Fast.


----------



## coltont

Good for pulling pulp too.


----------



## Skeans

Anytime you're thinning unless you're running a straight row you're going to have damage, I know that's why some of the guys here went to the swinging grapple machine because of the extra control you have well running. Mostly 517's or d4h's for less ground impact.


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## Metals406

I was gonna buy a 518 w/ a Esco swinger in 2009. $8,500 and lowboy'd here from OR fer nut'n.

Timber sale went too high for me to bid and make any coin.

That would have been a fun unit.


----------



## SliverPicker

northmanlogging said:


> I don't think I could log half of what I do with a grapple skidder, just too steep. With the cable I can stay on top of a ridge... usually... be fairly safe...
> 
> A grapple has to get up close and personal with a log to drag it in.



How much cable are you windin' on that spool Northy?


----------



## northmanlogging

Started with 100' of 3/4, down to around 90' now, and habitually keep a couple 50-80' lengths in the crummy, with a stack of blocks.

Put much more then 100' on the drum and winding gets kinda tricky, where its at now is nearly perfect... I could use smaller line and gain a few more feet, but I snap the 3/4 on a regular basis as it is, or the 9/16 chokers depends on who's weaker or pinched.


----------



## dhskier2

Anyone ever see/use this anti-chair technique before?


----------



## bitzer

Its a total load of horseshit. I've never tried it because there are much better and safer ways. What happens when the butt moves beyond the 'lock'? Or what if the tree just blows up from all the pressure? Believe me if its leaning hard enough and is the right species it can happen. That tree he shows is not leaning that hard. Hes a bore cut, dance around the stump kind of guy. I could go on for a while about his techniques. Rudimentary at best. I just don't get these kind of guys. They've been cutting timber for years and they still don't understand the physics of falling timber. I'd have two more on the ground while he was still setting up his 'lock'.


----------



## rwoods

bitzer and company, 

Being the igmo that I am, I have been let to believe that the bore cut is designed to be an "anti-barber chair" cut by providing a "properly" set hinge with a bore cut and then a stress relieving back cut from center to back leaving a trigger/trip strip. If a proper bore cuts prevent barber chairs as advertized then I don't see the need for Wade's block/lock. It looks to me that if this method has any merit, it is a bore cutter's compensation for a hinge that may be too thick or misplaced. Am I looking at this correctly? I cut very little and I leave falling bores and triggers to others but I sure can't see how this block/lock provides much. Frankly, even with my little experience, I wouldn't put too much trust in the strength of a two inch thick sliver created by overlapping cuts.

Ron


----------



## Gologit

bitzer said:


> Its a total load of horseshit. I've never tried it because there are much better and safer ways. What happens when the butt moves beyond the 'lock'? Or what if the tree just blows up from all the pressure? Believe me if its leaning hard enough and is the right species it can happen. That tree he shows is not leaning that hard. Hes a bore cut, dance around the stump kind of guy. I could go on for a while about his techniques. Rudimentary at best. I just don't get these kind of guys. They've been cutting timber for years and they still don't understand the physics of falling timber. I'd have two more on the ground while he was still setting up his 'lock'.



Well said.


----------



## bnmc98

Sooo..... Why would he post this if he didn't want anyone to try it? Doesn't make sense.

I think there becomes a point where fear and over-analyzing a situation just plain cuts into productivity too much. You can be safe and efficient at the same time. There is not much value in my mind to be over-safe. There is risk in timber cutting period. 

The other day we had a little mud on the road. slight outward slope; and the trucks went through it. We have a new driver and he went through the spot with his door open in case he had to bail. But, at the same time, they never put chains on, too lazy in their own words. There is a difference between doing wierd things because of fear and doing things wisely. In the long run the wise will save you time. One of the trucks we had to hook the cat and the skidder to and pull him out. 45 minutes of non productivity for us because they didn't want to chain up. They would have pulled through fine with 1 set I bet.

Some times it feels like to me that there are people out there who over prepare for things too much, I don't drive around with a spare rebuilt engine and a hoist in my pick-up in case I have engine problems. That tree I would just be a little lighter on my toes (maybe... doesn't look that bad) and have an escape route. There's nothing around it I could be 20 feet from that thing at the first sign of a split. 

That said, I wont try it, cause its too much cutting for not enough safety value. A triangle (coos?) or "T" or simple bore and cut the trigger is what I use and has worked fine for me. I don't want to have to buck every butt after that cut. Besides, in my experience, most trees that I have chaired have to do with the face, (either not cleaned out, or too narrow) not the back-cut.

Boy, all that was almost a rant... sorry.
Maybe I missed the whole point but thats what it stirred up in me.


----------



## northmanlogging

If yer gonna waste time boring it, just bore it... all the notch thing does is wast more time.

Or get a bigger bar, and a bigger saw, Triangle Coos, and be done with it.


----------



## Joe46

I posted a comment on some of his nonsense before. When he states he's stupid, I can only agree with him.


----------



## treeslayer2003

i did not watch it.............i tried to gol a 40" poplar a while back, hard head lean. almost did chair way behind the hinge. i couldn't barrel out the back that fast.........i saw it start to split so yes they can chair. all that is BS some one come up with for falling whips.


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## Metals406

I still like Wade though. He's a good ol boy.


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## dhskier2

I was cruising videos and came across a bunch of him in the skidder. Then two falling videos come up- a 19 tree domino and that chair-release one. He's entertaining when in the skidder. It seems that's where he spends most of his time.
I didn't figure that for a gol style cut because of the stepped backcut, but I see now that its in the same wheelhouse. Not anything I've come across in the woods out here, so I thought maybe some of you from the other side of the river might be using it.


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## coltont

I use the 45° sloping back cut on my leaners.


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## northmanlogging

coltont said:


> I use the 45° sloping back cut on my leaners.




Um... yer kidding right?


----------



## treeslayer2003

pretty sure he is lol


----------



## coltont

Yes I'm kidding. Since we're on the leaner subject I'll share a funny story from yesterday . We moved the grapple skidder to a land clearing job yesterday. First tree was a decent sized black birch.. . maybe 20 inches on the stump. The boss grabbed my 661 and went at the tree cause he wanted to try the saw out. Don't know what he was thinking but he left his hinge wood about 3 inches thick the whole way across. Needless to say it have him a barber chair with a 4 foot back. Out of practice he is.


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## Skeans

This made me laugh a little. 


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## treeslayer2003

squeaky saw lol. it is a wee saw.......i assume all the fartin around was for the camera?


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## Skeans

No idea, my guess was screwing around with the jack. A good example of why if you put a jack in later to slam a wedge or two, and have a good plate as well, yes it worked there but they won't always. Jacking isn't a fast deal to do because if you go to fast you'll pop them off the hinge.


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## northmanlogging

How long do you suppose the uncut video is?

Granted its a fine demo of how to use a bottle jack, albeit handicapped by the Swedish 4 step... But **** me 7 minutes and it would have been on the ground with no edits... Here I'm betting at least 20...


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## coltont

Celebrating earth day.


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## rwoods

Okay, did I really see that guy take out a carpenter's rule and measure the height of his face cut before making it? Ron


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## Gologit

rwoods said:


> Okay, did I really see that guy take out a carpenter's rule and measure the height of his face cut before making it? Ron


 Looked like it.


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## rwoods

One more gadget for me to carry to look professional though I'm not. Will it ever end?  Ron


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## Gologit

rwoods said:


> One more gadget for me to carry to look professional though I'm not. Will it ever end?  Ron




I keep waiting for somebody to post a video with a lap-top in the background giving them step by step directions.


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## rwoods

There have been a few times I wished I had someone in the background giving me step by step directions but I'll pass on the lap-top. Ron


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## BeatCJ

I


rwoods said:


> Okay, did I really see that guy take out a carpenter's rule and measure the height of his face cut before making it? Ron


I've seen people cutting firewood do that. Pull out the rule every chunk. Needless to say, I had my load cut split and loaded before he was done blocking. 

I was showing the stepson (he got an o26 for his 18th birthday) that just eyeballing it is fine, but if he really was concerned, the tip of the bar to the tip of the dogs is close enough. I went back and split it, even when he measured the chunks varied a lot. Oh well, we can fit a 20" piece in the stove, 16 makes for a good fudge factor.


----------



## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> How long do you suppose the uncut video is?
> 
> Granted its a fine demo of how to use a bottle jack, albeit handicapped by the Swedish 4 step... But **** me 7 minutes and it would have been on the ground with no edits... Here I'm betting at least 20...



Not real sure, surprised they weren't quartering them down the hill instead like I'm used to doing on steep ground.


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## Skeans

rwoods said:


> Okay, did I really see that guy take out a carpenter's rule and measure the height of his face cut before making it? Ron



Only time I've done anything like that was on a block face in a good size tree from side to side for direction of the fall.


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## Gypo Logger

Wood.


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## Skeans

Nice cut


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## Metals406

Posting before AS goes down again.


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## SliverPicker

Gypo Logger said:


> Wood.




What format does a video have to be in to be posted to UTube?


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## 1270d

I think pretty much anything works and YouTube converts it to something else.


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## SliverPicker

Thanks 1270.


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## coltont

Took a break from mushroom hunting to limb out a few trees


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## northmanlogging

Some one mentioned side shifting awhile back thought I should give it a try.

The maples in the distance are leave trees, falling into a draw, not ideal I know but you work with what you have right.


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## treeslayer2003

that was pretty dam slick Matt......i am impressed. for some reason i see what ya did better on this vid.


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## northmanlogging

Think if I had it to do over again, I'd make a wider face, get some more weight out in the ether rather then sitting on the stump. Maybe get it to fly a little farther down hill. 

As it was it was a fairly narrow face, thinking I wanted it to jump more?


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## treeslayer2003

looked to me like it went exactly as planned.........i wern't there. did seem like you were at the stump till almost the last.


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## northmanlogging

yeah it went pretty good... it landed almost all the way to the bottom of that draw, just wish it would have turned a bit more and saved some more of the top...


and with these fiberous trees you have to hang out a little longer then is strictly wise so you don't get real bad fiber pull, not to mention getting it to break away clean.

Someone suggested gutting the heart to help with these side shifts... honestly wanted to see what happens if you don't.

Cut another one today that had loads of hold wood and horrible fiber pull, but it was also back leaning and took 14 minutes of wedge beating to get it over...


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## Metals406

I thought it side slipped nicely Matt. It definitely changed lays compared to where it would have went.


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## HuskStihl

northmanlogging said:


> Some one mentioned side shifting awhile back thought I should give it a try.
> 
> The maples in the distance are leave trees, falling into a draw, not ideal I know but you work with what you have right.



That was really slick. Nice work.


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## BeatCJ

Whatever else happened, you sure irritated that goose.

I'm not sure you could have made it work any better.


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## northmanlogging

BeatCJ said:


> Whatever else happened, you sure irritated that goose.
> 
> I'm not sure you could have made it work any better.



These folks have a bunch of critters running around, ducks, geese, chickens, horses a groovy welsh corgy... The noisy goose is about 99% blind and runs around in tiny little circles when scared... sad and funny at the same time.


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## Skeans

Looked pretty good, I was the one talking about it. I was slipping cedar off a steep hill side to lay with the land better.


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## Skeans

I know what you mean about having to hang onto the stump longer then you want to over here as well.


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## Skeans

Anyone do anything this last week? I'm sick of being in the shop I've got a job to finish of cedar and alder, then our stuff to run through with the buncher and hand fall the oversize dying stuff.


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## treeslayer2003

yea my normal 3-4 loads.........i need to remember the camera. its gettin hot here, mid 80s. dry though so should be busy from now till next jan.


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## northmanlogging

fell half a load on sunday

skidded a load and half fri-sat...

this sat I get to see how good my brakes are and go after that dozer...


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## coltont

Finally in some decent timber again.


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## treeslayer2003

i see it gettin green there too......almost a jungle here. i miss winter already lol.


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## 1270d

We have no leaves here yet. The larch is just starting to green up though.


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## treeslayer2003

every thing here is makin pollen.......aaahcooo


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## coltont

. Hopefully that works.


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## coltont




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## HuskStihl

Skeans said:


> Anyone do anything this last week?


My wife left town for the weekend so I cut two stems of a rapidly growing river birch foolishly planted very close to my house. She doesn't believe that in 20 years that thing will be a giant tree and cost a small fortune to remove ("what do your stupid chainsaw friends know, they are probably just like you" (not a compliment)), "my landscape artist planted it there for a reason, it can't be a bad idea")). Hopefully she won't notice when she gets home. 
The two stems were leaning over the roof, about 5-6" and 25 ft tall. Me being me, I grabbed the ported 385 (in my defense, it was the only one with gas in it), put in a baby-Humboldt, and turned it about 60 degrees from it's lean and away from the roof (not that it would have done any damage). I was just funnin' around, but couldn't believe that a tree that small would turn so easily. 
I know this should be in the "pruning and trimming" forum, but I hadn't used a saw in a while


----------



## HuskStihl

coltont said:


> . Hopefully that works.



Beautiful tree! I've watched so many videos on here by now that when I hear what sounds like a stock 660, I put the player on fast speed to save time!


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## coltont

That's a 661 man. It rips


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## HuskStihl

coltont said:


> That's a 661 man. It rips


My bad, it had that whistle that threw me off.


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## treeslayer2003

Clinton says the 661 is the best stihl ever in his opinion.

vid coming Jon.....it ain't a good one, but in fairness y'all get to see it any way.


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## treeslayer2003




----------



## treeslayer2003

i am today's fiber puller................not sure why, cuts matched.......maybe should have made a deeper face, gutted it some, back cut more........idk, no other tree did that. in fact i can't remember the last time i pulled fiber like that.
any way, you all get to see it any way, i am not perfect lol.

the stump


the log


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## treeslayer2003

more from this morning


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## treeslayer2003

last pic is some pine poles and the old 460


----------



## rwoods

coltont, I know you cut low stumps but have you tried full or 3/4 wrap handles? I am just a firewood hack accustomed to half handles with few hours on full wraps. I didn't know how handy full wraps are for falling until I converted a full wrap to my familiar half wrap. The differences were much more obvious to me than going half to full. Other than my little saws, all mine will be full wraps. Ron


----------



## coltont

I've tried full on 461s. I didn't care for it. Not my cup of tea that's all. They are harder to get in and out of the skidder. Extra hard for my midget ass to dig out of the toolbox from the side of the truck.


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## treeslayer2003

i will agree a wrap handle sucks on a skidder saw.


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## 1270d

Slayer your vid says private.


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## treeslayer2003

huh? i can see it.......let me see what i did here.


worky now?


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## rwoods

I'll trade you a few half wraps for a skidder. Seriously, handling the saw while not running is what prompted me to converted a saw to half wraps but when I went to fall a few trees I was taken back by how inconvenient a half wrap is despite the fact I had been using half wraps for 30+ years and fulls for falling less than 50 or so trees. End of the day - half, 3/4 or full - it is what works best for you. Ron


----------



## bitzer

Dammit Colton keep them wedges in the back of the tree!

And Mike, where's the brain bucket?! Gettin custom fitted fer yer special head? You didn't cut it up tight enough for that face. Good to see ya in action!

I'm on 3 hours of sleep today. Slammed some tall swamp timber and rutted the **** out of it! Whoo hoo!

Jon swingin those little stems sure can be gratifyin huh? Up until sawtimber size most stay on the stump all day.


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## treeslayer2003

bitz could you see the vid? i think that stick had a little more lean than i thought it did......


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## HuskStihl

treeslayer2003 said:


> View attachment 423427
> i am today's fiber puller................not sure why, cuts matched.......maybe should have made a deeper face, gutted it some, back cut more........idk, no other tree did that. in fact i can't remember the last time i pulled fiber like that.
> any way, you all get to see it any way, i am not perfect lol.
> 
> the stump
> 
> 
> the log
> View attachment 423428


It's because you gave up on the stumpy sledge!


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## coltont

Bitz I'll keep them in the back when you don't cut timber on 3 hours of sleep.


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## bitzer

coltont said:


> Bitz I'll keep them in the back when you don't cut timber on 3 hours of sleep.


Well, carry on then... 

The first two tanks through the saw were torture. Then I hit my stride and it was buisness as usual. The ride home was tough. Reminded me of how it was when there was a newborn in the house.


----------



## bitzer

treeslayer2003 said:


> bitz could you see the vid? i think that stick had a little more lean than i thought it did......


Yep. Face a little narrow? Seriously Mike I'm about to buy you a full brim and send it to MD. I'd mark it Wild Mike. I'm sure they'd find ya. They were on sale at Baileys.


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## treeslayer2003

face was steep enough, i think it should have been deeper or i should have gutted it. falling little pine first fooled me i guess.
on the lid, it better be a kids size.........i have hell getting a dang ball cap to fit right. little feet and little head lol, me and silver picker must be freaks lol.


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## treeslayer2003

oh bitz, get some rest bro........you are getting older every year even if you don't notice. stay safe bro.


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## 1270d

Yup works now


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## 1270d

Yup works now


----------



## Skeans

coltont said:


> I've tried full on 461s. I didn't care for it. Not my cup of tea that's all. They are harder to get in and out of the skidder. Extra hard for my midget ass to dig out of the toolbox from the side of the truck.


Take a board fitted for the bed of the truck and cut a few slots in it for the bars to rest on


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## Skeans

treeslayer2003 said:


> face was steep enough, i think it should have been deeper or i should have gutted it. falling little pine first fooled me i guess.
> on the lid, it better be a kids size.........i have hell getting a dang ball cap to fit right. little feet and little head lol, me and silver picker must be freaks lol.


They fit my small head


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## MilanRV




----------



## SliverPicker

Now that's a real hitch there!


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## SliverPicker

TS, 1 minute 59 seconds on ONE tree? Really? You need to work on that, pard. lol


----------



## Gologit

bitzer said:


> Yep. Face a little narrow? Seriously Mike I'm about to buy you a full brim and send it to MD. I'd mark it Wild Mike. I'm sure they'd find ya. They were on sale at Baileys.



Let me know if you do it...I'll pitch in for half the cost. That kid needs a hat.


----------



## Skeans

I'll pitch in too, I'd feel naked without one


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## treeslayer2003

SliverPicker said:


> TS, 1 minute 59 seconds on ONE tree? Really? You need to work on that, pard. lol


what? not pine lol. may have worked better at 2.10


----------



## treeslayer2003

MilanRV said:


>



what make skidder is that?


----------



## BeatCJ

treeslayer2003 said:


> what make skidder is that?


Googling, I found LKT as a Slovakian manufacturer of logging equipment. Looks like they are available in the EU and Russia.
Martimex Alfa
Current LKT 81 Skidder



Gologit said:


> Let me know if you do it...I'll pitch in for half the cost. That kid needs a hat.


This one?


----------



## MilanRV

treeslayer2003 said:


> what make skidder is that?


BeatCJ is right. its a LKT, model: 81 turbo . LKT is "lesný kolesový traktor". in english something like "forrest wheell tractor"


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## treeslayer2003

pink? naw.............well can y'all give me some pros and cons of the full brim vs the cap style? also plastic and aluminum............there have been times i felt like i prolly should have something on my head, i am slowing down a bit. also, how adjustable are they and are there differences in weights and diameter?


----------



## treeslayer2003

MilanRV said:


> BeatCJ is right. its a LKT, model: 81 turbo . LKT is "lesný kolesový traktor". in english something like "forrest wheell tractor"


what kinds of timber do you have there and what is it used for?


----------



## rwoods

It has a double drum winch. Do we have those for stateside skidders? Ron


----------



## treeslayer2003

rwoods said:


> It has a double drum winch. Do we have those for stateside skidders? Ron


used to be models with two winches, i believe that could be had on a 740 deere


----------



## BeatCJ

treeslayer2003 said:


> pink? naw.............well can y'all give me some pros and cons of the full brim vs the cap style? also plastic and aluminum............there have been times i felt like i prolly should have something on my head, i am slowing down a bit. also, how adjustable are they and are there differences in weights and diameter?



I've always preferred the full brim style, but when I was working on a survey crew, it was difficult to see through the instrument with a brim in the way. The cap style we could turn around. For me, the full brim keeps the rain off the neck, somewhat. Aluminum won't break down due to UV light, the plastic hats should be replaced every 5(?) years, as I remember. When I was going to college and working for the cable company, I had to wear plastic due to the electrical hazards. Plastic won't tolerate fuel, oil or solvents, in most cases.

added edit: You can get snap in style hearing protection for the cap style, but I prefer soft plugs, anyway.


----------



## SliverPicker

The full brim is more balanced on your noggin. It sits where you put it without tilting forward over time due to the weight of bill on the cap style. The full brim also, as CJ, said keeps the rain off a bit better. The full brim also has more surface area to deflect impacts from above. Also the center of gravity on the full brim hats I've worn seems to be a bit lower that the cap style. This goes a long way in keeping the thing on your head.


----------



## HuskStihl

Taking down the annoying trees which start straight, then lean over the fence. I was feeling tough after my pruning success on Friday, so I just turned them from the back, away from the fence. No fence repair for me next week, which is sayin' something


----------



## northmanlogging

treeslayer2003 said:


> pink? naw.............well can y'all give me some pros and cons of the full brim vs the cap style? also plastic and aluminum............there have been times i felt like i prolly should have something on my head, i am slowing down a bit. also, how adjustable are they and are there differences in weights and diameter?



The Mac T's have a harder aluminium then the skull bucket imports, but the mac T's are no longer up to code? And when they get dented your supposed to replace them, it doesn't happen often...

The plastic hats are heavy, or you can go cheap and get a thinner one that won't do any good and still be heavier than an aluminium hat. Like others have said the full brim sits well. Doesn't work its way forward, though it can works its way back while looking up alot...

As far as suspension goes, the older hats had a straight head band and adjustable height, which is nice if you like the hat sitting low. The newer suspension I've found has the stirrup? that goes around the back of yer noggin, on one hand its nice as it helps keep the hat on yer head when looking down, on the other its gets squirshed in the crummy and wears out. My most recent suspension has been modified to sit a little lower, I have a ginourmous mellon holder so when all the way out it feels like a yarmulke (jewish brain cover) so I lower it a bit to keep the lid on... and it looks cool yo... basically I just unstiched the original stitching and restitched it where I wanted it to be... took like 20 minutes.

By rights the suspension should be replaced every time you get a good wallup, I've broken at least one set, (and in reality the current one is broke too).

The full brim is good for keeping stuff from falling down the back of your shirt, crud getting in your ears and when working in close proximity to another saw you can use it to keep his chips out of your clothing.

Its also handier for scooping water if you ever get the chance to fight a fire with just a hard hat...

One last pro to a full brim, they fly a lot better when you need to chuck it at something, the ball cap style tend to teeter and wobble, while the full brims will sail like a frisbee.


----------



## mdavlee

There's some MSA fiber glass hats that aren't too bad heavy. The older fibre metal ones were nice and light also. Close to a aluminum one for weight. If you want a plastic one I can probably come up with you one or 5


----------



## SliverPicker

Oh yeah! I often use my Mac T for showering after 3 or 4 summer days in camp. Just find a crick with enough water and proceed with freezing your, ah, bar nuts off. Stream water at 9-10 k feet is NEVER warm.


----------



## northmanlogging

all the cricks around here are less then 3 miles from the nearest snow pack... so I hear ya whooping from there..


----------



## SliverPicker

Same here. Your ankles go numb in right about 60 seconds.


----------



## MilanRV

treeslayer2003 said:


> what kinds of timber do you have there and what is it used for?


mostly spruce, fir, oak, beech,ash, pine.... we are a small country but we have high logging and export in the EU. more than 50% of the country are forrests. ist used as lumber wood mostly(spruce, beech. oak in good quality). bad wood is mostly used for cellulose. sorry for my bad english


----------



## treeslayer2003

MilanRV said:


> mostly spruce, fir, oak, beech,ash, pine.... we are a small country but we have high logging and export in the EU. more than 50% of the country are forrests. ist used as lumber wood mostly(spruce, beech. oak in good quality). bad wood is mostly used for cellulose. sorry for my bad english


no problem, i understand you fine. so no veneer market for your oak then? veneer is peeler logs.


----------



## treeslayer2003

so the aluminum is lighter then, humm, i would not have known that.


----------



## MilanRV

treeslayer2003 said:


> no problem, i understand you fine. so no veneer market for your oak then? veneer is peeler logs.


yes veneer too, i have forgotten  oak, beech,ash... mostly of hard wood in fine quality is used for veneers. but beech wood is the number one for veneers by us


----------



## MilanRV

more photos from my work


----------



## treeslayer2003

beech veneer? come on over, we'll make a fortune lol. i remember when we couldn't give beech away, now they buy it for matts and pallet stock.......might go for ties as well. i have cut plenty of 40" solid beech here.


----------



## Skeans

treeslayer2003 said:


> pink? naw.............well can y'all give me some pros and cons of the full brim vs the cap style? also plastic and aluminum............there have been times i felt like i prolly should have something on my head, i am slowing down a bit. also, how adjustable are they and are there differences in weights and diameter?



Full brim aluminum only for me with the style suspension in it, they aren't that heavy and don't take long to get used to, it's lighter then my dad's old Mac that's been painted I don't know how many times and we should replace.


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----------



## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> The Mac T's have a harder aluminium then the skull bucket imports, but the mac T's are no longer up to code? And when they get dented your supposed to replace them, it doesn't happen often...
> 
> The plastic hats are heavy, or you can go cheap and get a thinner one that won't do any good and still be heavier than an aluminium hat. Like others have said the full brim sits well. Doesn't work its way forward, though it can works its way back while looking up alot...
> 
> As far as suspension goes, the older hats had a straight head band and adjustable height, which is nice if you like the hat sitting low. The newer suspension I've found has the stirrup? that goes around the back of yer noggin, on one hand its nice as it helps keep the hat on yer head when looking down, on the other its gets squirshed in the crummy and wears out. My most recent suspension has been modified to sit a little lower, I have a ginourmous mellon holder so when all the way out it feels like a yarmulke (jewish brain cover) so I lower it a bit to keep the lid on... and it looks cool yo... basically I just unstiched the original stitching and restitched it where I wanted it to be... took like 20 minutes.
> 
> By rights the suspension should be replaced every time you get a good wallup, I've broken at least one set, (and in reality the current one is broke too).
> 
> The full brim is good for keeping stuff from falling down the back of your shirt, crud getting in your ears and when working in close proximity to another saw you can use it to keep his chips out of your clothing.
> 
> Its also handier for scooping water if you ever get the chance to fight a fire with just a hard hat...
> 
> One last pro to a full brim, they fly a lot better when you need to chuck it at something, the ball cap style tend to teeter and wobble, while the full brims will sail like a frisbee.


Mac's aren't to code here in Oregon that I know of but they are harder, I have a skull bucket well it's my second first one saved my butt to say the least if they take a good hit they should be replaced. When that hit happened it popped the rivets out of the aluminum piece on the top of the hat so they do take a good hit.


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## MilanRV

treeslayer2003 said:


> beech veneer? come on over, we'll make a fortune lol. i remember when we couldn't give beech away, now they buy it for matts and pallet stock.......might go for ties as well. i have cut plenty of 40" solid beech here.


 here is beech a very asked wood.


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## Skeans

Interesting reminds me of alder from what I was told, they use to just like and burn it as a weed


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## HuskStihl

Spent the day in the woods thinning trees to help with maintanace. As always, the falling is the fun part. Started with a 25" beech. It was gonna hit a leave tree, but luckily I hit the one I wanted to hit, and more luckily, the leave tree bent a ridiculous amount, but didn't break. Several trees later I had a 12" with a lot of top lean, going back up hill. I was feeling my oats, so I tried to face it down hill and turn it about 130 degrees from the back.............Nope, even with a wedge I couldn't get it started. Since there was nothing behind I nipped the face and let it follow gravity. Not as easy as y'all make it look. Spent the next 4 hours making a burn pile in a downpour. Special thanks to Mike Lee for the ported 288. That thing absolutely screams. I made a video, but the phone ran out of memory.


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## treeslayer2003

Jon, try to not do that if you can help it. many times if you bend an oak like that it is cracked badly even if you can't see it.

its not easy my friend, i turned three big poplars but i decided to not push my luck on a fourth........it would reach the road and power lines.


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## HuskStihl

treeslayer2003 said:


> Jon, try to not do that if you can help it. many times if you bend an oak like that it is cracked badly even if you can't see it.
> 
> its not easy my friend, i turned three big poplars but i decided to not push my luck on a fourth........it would reach the road and power lines.


Ya, there was no way to not hit another tree. I figured it would get flattened. It's not in an area where people will be walking much. I will give it a close look this weekend. Thanks


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## jamin alegre

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## coltont

Urban logging. I've done that


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## HuskStihl

jamin alegre said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I was going to bag on you for leaving the tallest stump I'd ever seen, until I saw the last pic.


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## jamin alegre

That was 1 of 4 trees that turned into one stump. look at that mulch pile from an oak


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## 056 kid

Some funky ground and a hooder white pine I tried holding across the hill.


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## 056 kid




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## treeslayer2003

hey Ted, good to see ya! nice block. you got white pine in Virginia?


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## Skeans

Looks and pretty rotten from the looks of it.


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## northmanlogging

Had the War Dept. out to help on a job today, she brought her fancy camera.


probably the most comfortable I've been climbing ever. Last tree on this project, Was still fiddling with it and the pile when the Self Loader arived... more on that later.


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## treeslayer2003

dam you pretty nimble for a big guy........i ain't goin up there, i'll trim it on the ground for ya lol.


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## northmanlogging

treeslayer2003 said:


> dam you pretty nimble for a big guy........i ain't goin up there, i'll trim it on the ground for ya lol.


It ain't so bad, yer tied in real good with cable in that rope and the spurs stick real nice as they're fairly new and sharp, just have to get past the part where your 30 feet in the air with a chainsaw.

Don't think I could do more then one of these a day though... 320 pounds of me and another say 50 pounds of gear, drug straight up, is a metric **** ton of work.


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## treeslayer2003

i went up a power pole once......kept slipping so i drove in hard, then it was hell on the ankles to pull free. i am not a climber, not now. in my 20s i should have learned.


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## northmanlogging

Trick with poles is to have sharp spikes. trick with trees is long spikes that aren't too dull or too sharp. Too sharp they get stuck too dull you slip out.

My normal climber is 55. The other is in his late 40's.


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## BeatCJ

And when you sharpen your gaffs for climbing poles, angles are important. I've never climbed a tree in spurs, but hundreds of trips up poles. Worked for my dad and we built a couple of Cable TV systems, back before dish and broadband.


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## Skeans

Aren't the gaffs shorter for poles vs timber gaffs?


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## Skeans

My project for the last week dang forwarders.


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## 1270d

Mag drills sure are a handy tool though aren't they?


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## Skeans

Oh yeah no way that would of gotten done with a handheld drill, timber jack sure didn't design stuff the best either.


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## 1270d

What TJ is it. 1210?


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## Skeans

Yeah 1210B they could of done a much better job with the wiring and put a better support setup for the back half instead of 30mm bolts.


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## 1270d

I havent met a forwarder yet that won't have tail trouble eventually. Our first ponsse was redone 3 times before trade in. We haul two tiers of eight foot wood so its hard on the tail. Always figured you guys hauling longer logs wohld not have as much trouble


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## 1270d

How have those firestone s worked out under the bunk?


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## Skeans

This is the 10th rebuild on the tail on this machine with 12,000 hours most of the guys here build a plate to connect the two halves.


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## Skeans

They work, but they are pretty worn out so they don't bite the tracks like they should anymore, we hardly ever run without the tracks unless it's super dry.


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## 1270d

We re tracked up all the time too. Saves on tires. Try the new nokian tires next time you need a set. They're made special for riding in tracks and bite real well.


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## Skeans

I doubt we buy a set before we get rid of the machine, I'd like to try the timbco timber pro forwarders one day but I don't think I could train the employee we have to run one.


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## 1270d

I've heard they're great as long as there is good hard ground


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## Skeans

Yeah I'm not sure how well the cab and boom turning would work in the thinning, be nicer having a clam bunk for something like that. And to answer why a lot of us have issues out here with the back halves is 16' min. and a lot of us will push them and do 28' a few guys have built them up to do 32' and 36' not exactly easy on them.


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## 1270d

Oh yeah I can see that would be a lot of weight out the back


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## BeatCJ

Skeans said:


> Aren't the gaffs shorter for poles vs timber gaffs?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, quite a bit shorter. Makes sense, you don't have to drive through bark on a pole.


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## northmanlogging

Was watching a pole climber awhile back... dude was nuts, unhooking his strap thing and climbing free hand around the cross tie things, damn monkey with wrenches, sometimes unhooking and hanging on by one hand while wrenching with the other.


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## Skeans

That's nuts, I've got an old set of pole gear from the 40's I should dig out one night and get a few pictures of.


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## BeatCJ

northmanlogging said:


> Was watching a pole climber awhile back... dude was nuts, unhooking his strap thing and climbing free hand around the cross tie things, damn monkey with wrenches, sometimes unhooking and hanging on by one hand while wrenching with the other.


I used to climb up to the telephone wires before I belted in. We had to be above them. I needed to be high enough on the pole to drill it for our 5/8" bolts. Great big heavy Skil 1/2" drill, and about a 14" drill bit. I needed to lean into it to get it started straight.

And two points of attachment? What, one on either hip?


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## northmanlogging

I hear they are coming down on the arborists for not using 2 points of attachment, at least while running a saw...


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## Skeans

One thing I'll give an arborist though they are in a harness not a leather belt around your waist.


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## northmanlogging

The belts suck! The new harnesses are really quite comfortable, I started climbing with an old all leather belt, with the sisal/hemp flip line, today's modern gear is so much nicer. Though I still like the hemp flip line, feels like it grips better and I can hang on to it a little easier, they're just really expensive.


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## BeatCJ

If I were to do it now, I would use a harness. I had a nice padded belt, had a good strap with a steel "core", nice set of spurs. None of the other stuff was available (that we knew of) 30+ years ago.

Dang, that makes me feel older than having kids my girls babysat babysit my granddaughter. Or having kids of their own...


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## coltont

The old girl don't pull to bad.


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## treeslayer2003

your vid is private Colton


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## coltont

Hmm have to see if I can figure it out. Got another phone. It might be smarter than me.


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## 137cc

I've always followed this thread but never really contributed. I finally figured out how to get video off of one of my old smartphones. This is a two part video of me taking down a snag on a wildfire outside of Sisters, Oregon. I cut the video into two portions because my felling partner flipped the camera 2/3 of the way through the video.

Part 1:


Part 2:


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## treeslayer2003

nice vid, thanks! had that been burned before? its a shame them nice sticks are dead......no chance of salvage i guess, to far gone? sure seemed hard as a rock. nice 064, one of my favorites. or was it a very early 066?


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## Metals406

Very nice 137cc!

You an agency guy or contractor?


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## Trx250r180

treeslayer2003 said:


> nice vid, thanks! had that been burned before? its a shame them nice sticks are dead......no chance of salvage i guess, to far gone? sure seemed hard as a rock. nice 064, one of my favorites. or was it a very early 066?


Look at the recoil cover ,the 066 is wider than an 064


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## treeslayer2003

yup, looks narrow to me. and has the old filter cover. i liked the old models better than and still do.


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## 137cc

treeslayer2003 said:


> nice vid, thanks! had that been burned before? its a shame them nice sticks are dead......no chance of salvage i guess, to far gone? sure seemed hard as a rock. nice 064, one of my favorites. or was it a very early 066?



No more salvage on federal lands here anymore thanks to the bunny huggers. I'm sanitizing a proposed line ahead of the main fire, were very close to a road in the vid. But all those snags in the video are from a previous fire (4-5 years?)



Metals406 said:


> Very nice 137cc!
> 
> You an agency guy or contractor?


I work as contract faller on wildfires during the summer as one of my jobs. If the video was 20+ min long then you could accuse me of being agency.


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## Gologit

Nicely done. Damn snags.


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## treeslayer2003

that is a shame.........i see that stick and see lumber and dollars. whats it close to a 150ft of logs? looks really tall to this east coaster. what a waste.


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## Skeans

Looked like pulp to me


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## treeslayer2003

because its dead? they take chip wood that big there?


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## Skeans

Yeah at least over here on this side of the cascade, the dock so hard on rotten wood for domestic woods it's not worth it.


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## treeslayer2003

oh they will put any thing rotten or hollow back on your truck here lol. 18" max although i have fudged a 20 once in a while.........you can't tell me that thing won't eat a bigger piece than that. its a rip off here, i won't fool with it if i can get out of it.
17 a ton for hard wood last i sold......nope nope nope.


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## Gologit

treeslayer2003 said:


> because its dead? they take chip wood that big there?



Yup. Down here a lot cull wood goes to the co-generation plants. They claim that they only want green chips with no trash but when the pile starts getting low and they have power contracts to fulfil they'll take anything that burns. It's usually chipped on site and then trucked to the power plants although I've seen plants with portable chippers . Big ones.


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## 137cc

treeslayer2003 said:


> because its dead? they take chip wood that big there?



When timber gets fire killed like this it has to be harvested within 6 months to still be of any value, not much of a chip market over here anyways. Any longer than that and typically only good for firewood, which the forest service doesn't allow to be cut for firewood in Central Oregon. So with no salvage logging or firewood cutting our public forests are a mess.

Also that tree was somewhere between 100-150'?, which is still short for Oregon.


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## Skeans

137cc said:


> When timber gets fire killed like this it has to be harvested within 6 months to still be of any value, not much of a chip market over here anyways. Any longer than that and typically only good for firewood, which the forest service doesn't allow to be cut for firewood in Central Oregon. So with no salvage logging or firewood cutting our public forests are a mess.
> 
> Also that tree was somewhere between 100-150'?, which is still short for Oregon.



They aren't shipping it to Longview like eastern Oregon or Idaho?


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## treeslayer2003

100' trees are tall here lol. even a fat one 5' across won't be any taller. IMO they should salvage that timber as soon as they can get on it after a fire. i can't understand who would be against that.......the timber is already dead.....why not?


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## Skeans

treeslayer2003 said:


> 100' trees are tall here lol. even a fat one 5' across won't be any taller. IMO they should salvage that timber as soon as they can get on it after a fire. i can't understand who would be against that.......the timber is already dead.....why not?



One word tree huggers 


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## treeslayer2003

thats takin it to a new level.......don't even cut dead ones. i hope they live in a tent.


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## Skeans

Nope they live in a place called Portland Oregon, lots of bicycles and "special" people


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## Gologit

treeslayer2003 said:


> IMO they should salvage that timber as soon as they can get on it after a fire. i can't understand who would be against that.......the timber is already dead.....why not?



I agree. Burn salvage needs to be cut quick if it's going to be any good. Things don't work that way though, especially on government ground.
As an example...a few years back there was a fire. About 30 thousand acres burned. There were fires before and since but we'll use this one as an example. There was private ground and there was FS ground checker-boarded throughout the burn.
On the private ground we were getting our THPs in place and starting the preliminary road work before the fire was even out. As soon as we safely could we were in there logging and hauling. We had to watch the boundary lines real close where our property butted up against government timber because cutting over onto the FS side wasn't allowed. Other than that, no problem. We had the timber down and gone by the middle of winter. It took a lot of loggers and a lot of effort but we did it. We dealt with a couple of small protest groups and some minor legal skirmishes but the preservationists (preservationist is a politically correct way to describe the ****ing tree huggers) hadn't really geared up yet.
On the government ground they didn't do anything at all the year of the fire. The drove around a lot and looked it over and had a lot of meetings and created a ton of paperwork and had some more meetings and quite a few press conferences and did a little rehab work to some roads but other than that...nothing.
The _next_ year they came in and did some cruising and a little more rehab work and a lot more driving around. In the late fall they finally advertised a sale and were promptly shut down by a consortium of preservationist groups who filed suit to stop the salvage logging. The FS cancelled the timber sales and made conciliatory noises to all involved. The FS is very concious of their public image and they hate to rush into anything that will put them in a bad light. They had lots of meetings and issued lots of press releases and nothing whatsoever in the way of logging got done. The trees sat though another winter.
The _next_ year the tree huggers and the FS reached some compromises and a bit of salvage logging got done. Very little, but some. Most of what they cut was for show and didn't really supply much real timber for the mills. Hollywood logging.
By then most of the trees resembled what 137cc posted in his video. Snags. Most of the commercial value was gone. When the FS offered the sale and nobody would even bid on it for saw logs they reoffered it as a chip sale instead. This of course took most of another year .
The timber went for practically nothing which is pretty much what it was worth by then. Thousands of acres of wasted resource.
We see this constantly out here. Constantly. Every year there are fires and every year the FS makes brave noises about salvaging the timber in a timely fashion. 
It never happens.


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## treeslayer2003

the judges in those cases.........i'd love to see one get riled up at the dumbasses and run them out of the courtroom with a stick. maybe have them locked up for idiocy. there is no common sense. i see some stupid crap here but that takes the cake.
we don't have much state property but what they have is heavily managed.


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## _RJ_

Chip market sure went to hell fast here. They were setting up a new mill around my folks place and it closed before it even opened.


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## Skeans

I'm sick of the enviro drop them in the river and see if they can float, we deal with it over here look at at the tillamook state forest.


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## HuskStihl

137cc said:


> I've always followed this thread but never really contributed. I finally figured out how to get video off of one of my old smartphones. This is a two part video of me taking down a snag on a wildfire outside of Sisters, Oregon. I cut the video into two portions because my felling partner flipped the camera 2/3 of the way through the video.
> 
> Part 1:
> 
> 
> Part 2:



Oh man. Just once. One single stupid time, I'd like to hit both corners like that. Is that really so much to ask????
I'd also like hair. That may be a bit much to ask, tho


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## Joe46

Here in the west the elite liberal preservationists have the 9th circuit court of appeals in their very big monied back pocket. They would much rather see it burned than logged. Which is really the true height of hypocrisy. Since they are all over this "carbon footprint" nonsense. I'm not a scientist, but I'd be willing to bet a 100 acre fire is going to add a whole lot more to our "carbon footprint" than a few piece of logging equiptment going into that 100 acre piece of timber and extracting it. Common sense? loggers are one of the small groups that still have it.


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## Skeans

You the 9th circus court of jokers?


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## chucker

Skeans said:


> Nope they live in a place called Portland Oregon, lots of bicycles and "special" people
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


two sister cities, Portland an moneyapolis is where they set.... then there's ST. paul, mn. with all the government laws(state & federal) that are passed with the wisdom of the citidiots(city dwelling idiot's) setting at their desks making up their great ideas of saving the forest they have never ventured through! our big burn here in Minnesota(bwca) was treated the same way with the tree hugger's enviro's doing more harm to our forest lands then what any forest fire has created. as for the federal forest service , they learned nothing after the yellow stone fire but loud noise like gologit stated!


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## Skeans

It's time some stuff changed in these states again they keep this stuff up here I wouldn't be surprised if we don't let our employee go especially with the 15 dollar minimum wage they are pushing. Then the creeks here we have roughly 70 acres we can't cut but have to pay taxes on and now they are finding out its not helping the fish. Screw these democrats they have ruined my state thank unions too.


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## Metals406

One volcanic eruption puts 2,000 years worth of human caused 'carbon' into the atmosphere.

You won't catch the treetards broadcasting that little nugget.

Why? It shows their stupidity, & that the entire green movement (started by Hitler) is just a tool for grabbing control and power.


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## slowp

chucker said:


> two sister cities, Portland an moneyapolis is where they set.... then there's ST. paul, mn. with all the government laws(state & federal) that are passed with the wisdom of the citidiots(city dwelling idiot's) setting at their desks making up their great ideas of saving the forest they have never ventured through! our big burn here in Minnesota(bwca) was treated the same way with the tree hugger's enviro's doing more harm to our forest lands then what any forest fire has created. as for the federal forest service , they learned nothing after the yellow stone fire but loud noise like gologit stated!



The Yellowstone fire was not on Forest Service Land. It was on National Park land. Let's get the facts correct. 

I hope for a big burn every year. Clearcutting in the higher elevations has stopped. It isn't going to be logged. Period. We need more huckleberry ground. Let it burn!! Some of it anyway.


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## chucker

slowp said:


> The Yellowstone fire was not on Forest Service Land. It was on National Park land. Let's get the facts correct.
> 
> I hope for a big burn every year. Clearcutting in the higher elevations has stopped. It isn't going to be logged. Period. We need more huckleberry ground. Let it burn!! Some of it anyway.


is it not still run by the federal government! in one way or another..... either way it's a loss to not harvest the forest after a fire as well to let it be over grown to die and become a fire hazard....... government loud chatter is no different than cheap whisky to them who buy it !!!!


----------



## 137cc

chucker said:


> is it not still run by the federal government! in one way or another..... either way it's a loss to not harvest the forest after a fire as well to let it be over grown to die and become a fire hazard....... government loud chatter is no different than cheap whisky to them who buy it !!!!



There is no commercial harvest allowed period on national parks. You'll find plenty of timber employees in the forest service, but none in the parks. You're correct in that both properties are federal, but they are managed for very different objectives.


----------



## slowp

chucker said:


> is it not still run by the federal government! in one way or another..... either way it's a loss to not harvest the forest after a fire as well to let it be over grown to die and become a fire hazard....... government loud chatter is no different than cheap whisky to them who buy it !!!!



It is run by the National Park Service..Dept. Of Interior. Timber harvest is rarely done on National Park lands. Yellowstone was left to recover naturally. That's what they do in the parks. It's kind of nice to have a few places left so folks can see how nature works and that's what parks can do.

The Forest Service is a USDA agency. There has been talk for years about doing away with it and putting those lands under the BLM (Bureau of Land Management). Lots of politics involved in that...lots.

Read up on John Muir and Gifford Pinchot. John Muir was a preservationist. Gifford Pinchot was a forester. Both lobbied and got what they wanted--Muir the National Parks (Yosemite) and Pinchot, the National Forests. Muir wanted land to be untouched. Pinchot wanted forest land kept in reserve and managed for timber. At the time the "silvicultural practice" was to cut it all and move on. No reforestation. No cleanup. Cream it and get out.

The Forest Service has designated wilderness areas--I think the Boundary Waters is one. No motorized equipment is allowed (exceptions can be granted but rarely done) and no timber harvest. Hazard trees around camp areas are felled using crosscut saws and trails are cleared using crosscuts also.


----------



## bitzer

Sorry about Muir. Hes from here. He saw the "cutover" in the north and didn't like it. Most of it grew back or was planted eventually.


----------



## 137cc

I like bashing on bunny huggers like the rest, but let's get the thread back on topic. Here is another vid from that same fire. The video is of my falling partner Glen taking down two trees. Both of these snags were leaning heavily into each other. The vid is just the back-cut on the second tree, he has already limped up the tree in front.


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## HuskStihl

Trees are nice, but so is a grassy meadow. Who are we to judge?


----------



## HuskStihl

137cc said:


> I like bashing on bunny huggers like the rest, but let's get the thread back on topic. Here is another vid from that same fire. The video is of my falling partner Glen taking down two trees. Both of these snags were leaning heavily into each other. The vid is just the back-cut on the second tree, he has already limped up the tree in front.



Fiber puller! J/K, great video. I hate it when trees start going, then stall. Gives me a "sense of impending doom"


----------



## treeslayer2003

137cc said:


> I like bashing on bunny huggers like the rest, but let's get the thread back on topic. Here is another vid from that same fire. The video is of my falling partner Glen taking down two trees. Both of these snags were leaning heavily into each other. The vid is just the back-cut on the second tree, he has already limped up the tree in front.



nice dominoe. dead stuff don't like to fall. is it harder on saws cutting that dead seasoned wood all the time? that is DF? it seems pretty hard.


----------



## treeslayer2003

HuskStihl said:


> Trees are nice, but so is a grassy meadow. Who are we to judge?


trees grow back. i have seen poplar 10" tall in a farm field in one year, what do you suppose it would look like in 50? what i don't understand is why all species don't come back right.


----------



## KiwiBro

treeslayer2003 said:


> trees grow back. i have seen poplar 10" tall in a farm field in one year, what do you suppose it would look like in 50? what i don't understand is why all species don't come back right.


Can be the same here. We tend to think in time spans of one or two generations, whereas the trees we clear-felled were there for hundreds or thousands of years and evolved to dominate the area from conditions (environmental, competition, wildlife) that could be vastly different from today. I would love a time machine and to see what areas clear-felled in our generation and then left to their own devices will look like in many hundreds of years time.


----------



## treeslayer2003

trees here ain't that old. they say the wye oak was over 300, i dunno if i believe that. i cut a 50" white oak with only 90 rings, it was a beautiful tree. problem is the white oak is not coming back like other trees. as well the heart pine and short leaf pine.
i just would like to know why some do and some don't........maybe our forestry practice in flawed some where.


----------



## Gologit

treeslayer2003 said:


> trees here ain't that old. they say the wye oak was over 300, i dunno if i believe that. i cut a 50" white oak with only 90 rings, it was a beautiful tree. problem is the white oak is not coming back like other trees. as well the heart pine and short leaf pine.
> i just would like to know why some do and some don't........maybe our forestry practice in flawed some where.



Good question. Madhatte will be back from vacation next week. I'll bet he can answer that.


----------



## 137cc

treeslayer2003 said:


> nice dominoe. dead stuff don't like to fall. is it harder on saws cutting that dead seasoned wood all the time? that is DF? it seems pretty hard.



The tree being driven was probably a pis fur, aka white fir. The one being fell is probably either a ponderosa or Douglas-fir. They're all still softwoods, dead wood just cuts slower than green.


----------



## bitzer

Mike the biggest oaks and maples I've cut that you could still count rings on (around 5' on the stump) were all around 180. The big white oaks were solid healthy trees yet. I think its possible. My forester will leave white oaks in a stand over everything else. I've seen plenty of em regrowing here in our oak-hickory stands. Red oak and hickory will dominate the majority of the re-gen tho.


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## treeslayer2003

bitzer said:


> Mike the biggest oaks and maples I've cut that you could still count rings on (around 5' on the stump) were all around 180. The big white oaks were solid healthy trees yet. I think its possible. My forester will leave white oaks in a stand over everything else. I've seen plenty of em regrowing here in our oak-hickory stands. Red oak and hickory will dominate the majority of the re-gen tho.


yup, red, poplar, gum here. i am thankfull for the way poplar regens. i think maybe the deer are a big problem for the white oak here, we have to many........much more than when the big trees i am cutting now came up.

you have a shorter growing season than we do lol. there is some old trees here, but they don't have to be that old to be big. the wye oak was a wolf tree, there were and are better specimens here imo.


----------



## treeslayer2003

Gologit said:


> Good question. Madhatte will be back from vacation next week. I'll bet he can answer that.


Bob, one of the county guys once told me the white oak acorns had to go through a freeze cycle to germinate.........that may have a bearing since some years it never freezes. if that is the case, the last two winters should have helped.

hey did you get all moved?


----------



## KiwiBro

A hobby of mine is growing colourful, predominantly or common, Northern species. Red Oaks, Acers, Liquid Ambers, etc (basically any Autumn show off). The seeds almost always spend a few months in the fridge, or sometimes the freezer, in sphagnum moss inside polystyrene trays to germinate. I'm trying to create a little slice of Virginia (well at least what I remember it like from what little I saw of it travelling through many years ago).


----------



## bnmc98

137cc said:


> I like bashing on bunny huggers like the rest, but let's get the thread back on topic. Here is another vid from that same fire. The video is of my falling partner Glen taking down two trees. Both of these snags were leaning heavily into each other. The vid is just the back-cut on the second tree, he has already limped up the tree in front.




Suprized there was any fiber pull at all, I would have banked on totally rotten.
wish I could leave stumps that high, I'm jealous
Good vid


----------



## northmanlogging

KiwiBro said:


> A hobby of mine is growing colourful, predominantly or common, Northern species. Red Oaks, Acers, Liquid Ambers, etc (basically any Autumn show off). The seeds almost always spend a few months in the fridge, or sometimes the freezer, in sphagnum moss inside polystyrene trays to germinate. I'm trying to create a little slice of Virginia (well at least what I remember it like from what little I saw of it travelling through many years ago).



I have several flavors of Oaks and a bunch of Yews all over the little place here, the war dept planted a metric ton of fancy dead looking bushes so it looks either like fall or all the plants are dying year round.


----------



## Gologit

treeslayer2003 said:


> hey did you get all moved?



Yup. Mostly. Life on the coast is good.


----------



## treeslayer2003

Gologit said:


> Yup. Mostly. Life on the coast is good.


good thats all done. i hate moving.


----------



## KiwiBro

We hit this arboretum pretty hard the first few years, squirrelling seeds from anything colourful.
http://www.eastwoodhill.org.nz/image-gallery/album/autumn-2012

Staff were great, and didn't mind that we'd walk out of there with pockets, sleeves, gumboots bulging with seeds and samples. We certainly entertained a few visitors in the car park, unloading and cataloguing our inventory. When every other option was taken, we'd have to shove seeds and identifying leaves down our shirts and underpants. The end is only just now starting to justify the means. Another 10 years and it should be something quite special, I hope.


----------



## coltont

Mike no freeze cycle on white oak acorns. They are one of the only oaks that will drop there nuts on the ground and sprout all in the same growing season.


----------



## treeslayer2003

pretty sure he talking about chestnut oak if that makes any difference.


----------



## coltont

No difference. In fact when the mill buys chestnut oak it gets purchased for about %90 the price of white oak and gets sawed and mixed rite with the white oak.


----------



## coltont

. The 661 was eating the wood good enough for my liking. Red oak this size is fun waiting to happen. Wish I had 100 acres of it. Wood is good.


----------



## treeslayer2003

private again Colton


----------



## coltont

**** the bed


----------



## coltont

I think my numb skull might have got it this time Tall red oak:


----------



## 1270d

Its working


----------



## treeslayer2003

nice stick, good height. you could do with a long bar.....just sayin


----------



## HuskStihl

Ya got some sort of weird extra-long axe handle


----------



## coltont

I guess all council axes have weird long handles. That one is un molested and rite from the box. That's how it came


----------



## northmanlogging

Order one from the left coast...

Saw shops carry the same head with like 3 different handles, and they have 4-5 different heads as well. Makes choosing an axe a lot like shoe shopping.


----------



## gunnusmc03

Council sells a 5lb'er with a 28" straight handle.


----------



## treeslayer2003

meh, i just buy a straight handle n cut her off.......5 seconds with a sawzall. the scrap makes a half descent file handle or two.


----------



## 1270d

I cut handles off with a hand saw, then put some wraps of duct tape to help keep the hand from slipping off. Then you always have tape with you, whether for temporary bandage or to hold your chaps up if a buckle breaks etc.


----------



## 1270d

Its looking tattered, but there's still usable stuff there.


----------



## bitzer

Full wrap and the big five points would get that saw pullin instead of pushin. I do back bar alot, but I like to dog in on the bigger stems. No need for extra pressure on that hinge either with the side wedge. I do love me some nice red oak tho. Could be my favorite. Good video. I always like watching timber.

Yeah I stick the axe head in my armpit and as far as my fingers can stretch down the handle is where I cut it. Works perfect every time.


----------



## bnmc98

gunnusmc03 said:


> Council sells a 5lb'er with a 28" straight handle.



I have that one, called a "rafting axe"
I had to put some extra of those small head wedges in the top though so the head wouldn't keep slipping.


----------



## bnmc98

bitzer said:


> Full wrap and the big five points would get that saw pullin instead of pushin. I do back bar alot, but I like to dog in on the bigger stems.



I used to run half wraps but I got stinkin tired and my hands felt arthritic all the time.
The guys that I cut for think there is no other way. When I flip the saw over they say I am cutting wrong.... leaves high stumps.
Then I show them the towers the feller buncher leaves. 

BTW they always point out the ones that have had 2 loads of logs skidded over them and all the dirt dragged away, or the ones with massive swell.


----------



## bitzer

bnmc98 said:


> I used to run half wraps but I got stinkin tired and my hands felt arthritic all the time.
> The guys that I cut for think there is no other way. When I flip the saw over they say I am cutting wrong.... leaves high stumps.
> Then I show them the towers the feller buncher leaves.
> 
> BTW they always point out the ones that have had 2 loads of logs skidded over them and all the dirt dragged away, or the ones with massive swell.


Of course they pick the high ones. My forester likes to do the same. Yeah that saw jumpin around makes my arms hurt just watchin it! Colton is younger then me yet I think. He can take it!


----------



## coltont

It wasn't jumping to bad. That bar has cut to many loads of logs..... Needs retired . The rails are pretty sloppy on it so it was binding as much as jumping.


----------



## dhskier2

treeslayer2003 said:


> trees here ain't that old. they say the wye oak was over 300, i dunno if i believe that. i cut a 50" white oak with only 90 rings, it was a beautiful tree. problem is the white oak is not coming back like other trees. as well the heart pine and short leaf pine.
> i just would like to know why some do and some don't........maybe our forestry practice in flawed some where.



This has to do with stages of succession- the natural plant community establishment and change over time following a disturbance (like fire, land conversion, clear-cut, major wind event, etc.)
Early plant/tree establish'ers are called the seral (pioneer) species, and the ones that establish much later are the climax species. This is a broad definition. Local influences come into play, like the severity of the disturbance, the vegetation type, elevation, aspect, annual precip, frost-free period, things like that. If the system wasn't reset to "zero", then some trees will reestablish and some wont. If it was reset to zero then only the early seral species will come in right away. The climax species might not begin to occur on the site for decades. Since you're talking about hardwood country, here's a picture to illustrate:


----------



## Metals406

coltont said:


> . The 661 was eating the wood good enough for my liking. Red oak this size is fun waiting to happen. Wish I had 100 acres of it. Wood is good.



That's a big ol oak! Bet it weighed a metric **** ton!

We gotta get you into a full brim hat instead of the construction style.

I know it's common back east, but it still looks goofy! ;0)


----------



## Metals406

dhskier2 said:


> This has to do with stages of succession- the natural plant community establishment and change over time following a disturbance (like fire, land conversion, clear-cut, major wind event, etc.)
> Early plant/tree establish'ers are called the seral (pioneer) species, and the ones that establish much later are the climax species. This is a broad definition. Local influences come into play, like the severity of the disturbance, the vegetation type, elevation, aspect, annual precip, frost-free period, things like that. If the system wasn't reset to "zero", then some trees will reestablish and some wont. If it was reset to zero then only the early seral species will come in right away. The climax species might not begin to occur on the site for decades. Since you're talking about hardwood country, here's a picture to illustrate:


QTLA!

(quoted to like again)


----------



## coltont

I had a full brim but it slid out of the skidder and I turned it into a cookie sheet. That's my stihl one that I wear in the winter so I can keep my ears warm with the muffs. Can't say it's my favorite hard hat but it's better than just hoping your noggin is hard enough to protect you from the death from above.


----------



## bitzer

I got wrapped in the head pretty good yesterday. Downpour and 30 mph winds. It got ugly in a hurry.

Colton I hate when the rails open up on a bar especially when it seems like you should be able to get more out of it. Usually I run em longer than I should even though it drives me nuts.


----------



## coltont

I do the same thing. Then I get frustrated and take it off and put a new one on. Every time I do that i tell my self I'm not going to run one that long again. But I still run them until they are junk every single time.


----------



## chucker

coltont said:


> I do the same thing. Then I get frustrated and take it off and put a new one on. Every time I do that i tell my self I'm not going to run one that long again. But I still run them until they are junk every single time.





bitzer said:


> I got wrapped in the head pretty good yesterday. Downpour and 30 mph winds. It got ugly in a hurry.
> 
> Colton I hate when the rails open up on a bar especially when it seems like you should be able to get more out of it. Usually I run em longer than I should even though it drives me nuts.


 just like a lot of us trying to save a dollar to make things a bit better during harder times.... it's really not much different than running your truck an extra 1000 miles before changing the oil at 3 grand, cept safer than a split bar!!! lol


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## coltont

Just don't wait to change the oil in the skidder!!!


----------



## HuskStihl

IDK, once the rails start spreading, the chain slops around, cuts get crooked/bind and you slow down. I tighten the rails with a bench vise (could never make the fancy tool work), but they will always spread really quickly.
Colton could pick up a new 16" bar for 25 bucks


----------



## chucker

HuskStihl said:


> IDK, once the rails start spreading, the chain slops around, cuts get crooked/bind and you slow down. I tighten the rails with a bench vise (could never make the dance tool work), but they will always spread really quickly.
> Colton could pick up a new 16" bar for 25 bucks


lol... ? I am not sure if you stepped over the thought of not getting a new bar idea or just a young gun? most of us that run a bar that long is for a daily beat the odd's test, not so much that a person cant afford a new bar or not . it's like a numbers game of odd's to beat the gol out of a win ! the number's game of gol is a time over matter you might say... the odd's of making a day or to see if your number has made the draw! the number I am playing against sometimes is tomorrow or age 66 and 6 month's for retirement? which comes first ? my number or lucky to see retirement?? we will see tomorrow!?


----------



## KiwiBro

coltont said:


> Just don't wait to change the oil in the skidder!!!


Most guys round here do. It just takes them about three months to replace it all.


----------



## HuskStihl

chucker said:


> lol... ? I am not sure if you stepped over the thought of not getting a new bar idea or just a young gun? most of us that run a bar that long is for a daily beat the odd's test, not so much that a person cant afford a new bar or not . it's like a numbers game of odd's to beat the gol out of a win ! the number's game of gol is a time over matter you might say... the odd's of making a day or to see if your number has made the draw! the number I am playing against sometimes is tomorrow or age 66 and 6 month's for retirement? which comes first ? my number or lucky to see retirement?? we will see tomorrow!?


Did you mean to post this in Bitzer's thread?


----------



## chucker

HuskStihl said:


> Did you mean to post this in Bitzer's thread?


nope! I was just giving you some chit about getting a new 25.00 bar and not trying to get all that a person can out of a wore out split bar... lol it's all a chance closing the rails with a bench vice or a pair of vice gripes....


----------



## coltont

Hell I don't even pay for bars the boss does. I just like to get our moneys worth out of them. Being a young gun has nothing to do with it. Just trying to keep all the costs down I can


----------



## Metals406

For longer, expensive bars (Tsumura and Sugihara come to mind) -- it's probably worth the effort to rebuild the rails.

My local saw shop hardly does it anymore except for harvester bars. Johnny homeowner bars aren't pricey enough to justify the labor.

Eventually I'll have my BarShop setup, & I will be able to regrind and reslot after welding up the worn rails.


----------



## bnmc98

Local shop here has a bar dresser. grinds rails and hammers them tight again. $10. I have had one bar done 2 times already. beats $80-$100 each time for a new bar.


----------



## Gypo Logger

I like this thread, I just wish I could contribute a bit more than my has been vids.


----------



## Skeans

Been a while since I've posted been busy cheating using the hydraulic saw a bit





The before




The after


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## treeslayer2003

nice lay, its for a skidder?


----------



## Skeans

Forwarder, can't grapple skid the stuff with it laid like that, it needs to be parallel to the rows so there's not a whole lot of damage 


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## bitzer

Heres a big wolfy ash I cut for the county this morning. I had set a cable in it and the plan was to have a county guy pull it. Well I got there at 5 to get set up and once I saw how clean the face was I decieded to jack it. I knew it had some rot cuz I bored it months ago when I agreed to cut it. She was 4ft across the hinge and it took 3 1/2 inches to tip er. After I got over my double stack of wedges I put a chunk in so I could keep a wedge tight. Thats the square piece laying there. I didn't have my jack seat deep enough originally. Man I hate these big topped bitches. The county guys showed up at 6:30 all scratchin their heads.


----------



## bitzer

Just some pics from the las month or so. Nothin special.

Tall swamp wood.




Loader truck loading a flat bed.




Hard pulled white oak.






Cleaned off.





Swingin on some new rubber.


----------



## treeslayer2003

wow, i never seen an ash that short with that big a top. all of um here look like the second pic only with no heart. i am jealous of the new tires:****you:

i don't think i'd get away with that in white oak here even if it was punky.....i have pulled that much in red oak though.


----------



## bitzer

treeslayer2003 said:


> wow, i never seen an ash that short with that big a top. all of um here look like the second pic only with no heart. i am jealous of the new tires:****you:
> 
> i don't think i'd get away with that in white oak here even if it was punky.....i have pulled that much in red oak though.


That park must have been donated land by a farm or something. I'm guessing that ash was a fence line tree. Don't worry you can get away with that in all oak. Punky or not. What do you guys get for a new 23.1 x 26? That was 2 grand. Its a primex log monster. 16 ply. I had qoutes well into the 3s.


----------



## nk14zp

HuskStihl said:


> IDK, once the rails start spreading, the chain slops around, cuts get crooked/bind and you slow down. I tighten the rails with a bench vise (could never make the fancy tool work), but they will always spread really quickly.
> Colton could pick up a new 16" bar for 25 bucks


You sure that"s why your cuts are crooked?


----------



## bitzer

If anyone was wondering, I never clean up the trees I cut for the county. Strictly cut n run. I dumped a truck and half of wood later that day. I did sleep in an extra hour today tho. Too wet to skid anyway.


----------



## treeslayer2003

bitzer said:


> That park must have been donated land by a farm or something. I'm guessing that ash was a fence line tree. Don't worry you can get away with that in all oak. Punky or not. What do you guys get for a new 23.1 x 26? That was 2 grand. Its a primex log monster. 16 ply. I had qoutes well into the 3s.


no clue bro, dammed if i will pay for a new tire........so far, used 23s are becoming scarce. i did pick up three a couple years ago off a junked franklin.........300 bucks on wheels. the fourth was slick, the three are 75%. i am looking all the time.
if i did have to buy new, i'd prolly search the internet for free freight and mount them myself, tire guys around here think they are worth a lot of money..........even though they pinch the tube most of the time.
i have a 28 mounted tube less, that may be the way to go. rim must be clean though or it will leak.


----------



## bitzer

Used are tough to find. I can't justify paying 500 bucks for a tire at 30 percent. Thats what I got when I called around. All the tires were near new when I bought this machine. They are probably 80 percent or better yet. The tire that went bad was flattened when a guy I had runnin the machine almost tipped it two years ago. It damaged a lot of the cords and the sidewall really opened up this last winter. I had it sectioned repaired once but it opened in other spots. Too bad to cuz there was a lot of tread left.


----------



## Gypo Logger

bitzer said:


> Just some pics from the las month or so. Nothin special.
> 
> Tall swamp wood.
> 
> View attachment 430915
> 
> 
> Loader truck loading a flat bed.
> 
> View attachment 430919
> 
> 
> Hard pulled white oak.
> 
> View attachment 430916
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cleaned off.
> 
> 
> View attachment 430917
> 
> 
> Swingin on some new rubber.
> 
> View attachment 430918


I dont care about your new tire! Im curious about that timber I see in the background. Lol
Nice pics btw.


----------



## Trx250r180

Had a new thing happen last week ,2/3 into the back cut on a cedar and the bar nuts fell off ,was cutting ,looked up ,looked down then the sprocket cover hit the ground ,then zing..........powerhead is in my hand running with no bar on it ,luckily i had 3 wedges in the back cut so the bar slid back out ,bar nuts were lost forever though ,had hike up the hill to grab a couple more


----------



## Gypo Logger

Find those bar nuts Brian. They are in the sawdust somewhere. Just take your file or bar wrench and stir up the sawdust till you hear that clinking sound. Lol


----------



## rwoods

A cheap pocket telescoping magnet is really handy to search for bar nuts and screws - I keep one in my ammo can of chains, spare nuts and screws, etc. But I still have to hike back to the truck. Ron


----------



## Trx250r180

Gypo Logger said:


> Find those bar nuts Brian. They are in the sawdust somewhere. Just take your file or bar wrench and stir up the sawdust till you hear that clinking sound. Lol


I was cutting on a hill ,lot of slough brush on ground and branches and nettles ,i looked in the chips for a bit and gave up ,factory stihl ones too  ,i would have rather found them then hike up that hill ,hills make me breathe hard and sweat and stuff .


----------



## Gypo Logger

Trx250r180 said:


> I was cutting on a hill ,lot of slough brush on ground and branches and nettles ,i looked in the chips for a bit and gave up ,factory stihl ones too  ,i would have rather found them then hike up that hill ,hills make me breathe hard and sweat stuff .


I just use bar nuts and sprockets as body piercings for that very reason. Lol


----------



## Trx250r180

Gypo Logger said:


> I just use bar nuts and sprockets as body piercings for that very reason. Lol


I keep one in my front pocket as a reminder now ,and a spare ..........did i mention hiking up hills through cedar limbs sucks ?


----------



## Gypo Logger

Trx250r180 said:


> I keep one in my front pocket as a reminder now ,and a spare ..........did i mention hiking up hills through cedar limbs sucks ?View attachment 431968


I here ya, when you finally emerge from the thicket into a clearing you feel like a pervert that just got bounced out of a tea party. Lol.


----------



## HuskStihl

Trx250r180 said:


> Had a new thing happen last week ,2/3 into the back cut on a cedar and the bar nuts fell off ,was cutting ,looked up ,looked down then the sprocket cover hit the ground ,then zing..........powerhead is in my hand running with no bar on it ,luckily i had 3 wedges in the back cut so the bar slid back out ,bar nuts were lost forever though ,had hike up the hill to grab a couple more


You need to get a "torque-scrench"


----------



## Skeans

Trx250r180 said:


> I keep one in my front pocket as a reminder now ,and a spare ..........did i mention hiking up hills through cedar limbs sucks ?View attachment 431968


Got love waist deep cedar limbs, too bad the nuts aren't in cased like the 562 husky.


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----------



## HuskStihl

Getting ones nuts encased might sound like a good idea at the time, but you'll regret it later


----------



## Skeans

HuskStihl said:


> Getting ones nuts encased might sound like a good idea at the time, but you'll regret it later


Lol it could be a good thing then no little ones running around loose means more toys.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bitzer

Treeslayer- this is how I put my sizwheels in.


----------



## Metals406

bitzer said:


> Treeslayer- this is how I put my sizwheels in.
> 
> View attachment 432187
> 
> 
> View attachment 432188
> 
> 
> View attachment 432189


That the 'v-notch' style -- you ever use a 'full-face' sizwell?

They really hold!


----------



## hardpan

HuskStihl said:


> Getting ones nuts encased might sound like a good idea at the time, but you'll regret it later



You talking about cutting wood or getting married?


----------



## Skeans

Metals406 said:


> That the 'v-notch' style -- you ever use a 'full-face' sizwell?
> 
> They really hold!



Got a picture for the guys?


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----------



## Metals406

Skeans said:


> Got a picture for the guys?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don't think I do. . . I'll try and make one and get a pic.


----------



## bitzer

Metals406 said:


> I don't think I do. . . I'll try and make one and get a pic.


Are you talking about how Cody does em? I have seen a video or two of him doing that. I feel like you would loose some accuracy to the lay that way? I've never tried it. It looks like it keeps that side open for a lot longer though.

Mile asked me a while back how I put them in. I finally got to it. Just haven't been in the timber where I need it.


----------



## Metals406

bitzer said:


> Are you talking about how Cody does em? I have seen a video or two of him doing that. I feel like you would loose some accuracy to the lay that way? I've never tried it. It looks like it keeps that side open for a lot longer though.
> 
> Mile asked me a while back how I put them in. I finally got to it. Just haven't been in the timber where I need it.


There's like, 3-4 ways to throw one in. Cody has shown it before on here.

Two ways it can hurt your gun.

1. You bore in contrary to your gun and change it.

2. It holds like a son of a batch and pulls farther than you wanted.


----------



## bitzer

Metals406 said:


> There's like, 3-4 ways to throw one in. Cody has shown it before on here.
> 
> Two ways it can hurt your gun.
> 
> 1. You bore in contrary to your gun and change it.
> 
> 2. It holds like a son of a batch and pulls farther than you wanted.



That makes sense to me. Yeah he takes the piece more from the front to the hinge like a bigger wedge if I remember correctly.


----------



## Skeans

That's the way I was taught to do them


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----------



## Skeans

Here's the ones of Cody's I had saved.


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----------



## HuskStihl

Ok, for the dumbass. You put the sis-wedge on the pulling side to let the tree go further before the fibers twist and break?

Edit: any reason it couldn't be combined with a soft Dutch on the lean side?


----------



## KiwiBro

HuskStihl said:


> Ok, for the dumbass. You put the sis-wedge on the pulling side to let the tree go further before the fibers twist and break?
> 
> Edit: any reason it couldn't be combined with a soft Dutch on the lean side?


Nope, if the tree is big or stringy enough.

Said the blind man to the deaf bugger.

*ETA* was the siz in that bottom pic doing anything? Looks like the fibres didn't pull forward into the siz so how much extra hanging on/steering did they actually do? A bit more from the taller hinge down that side but not as much as if they actually did hold on longer?


----------



## HuskStihl

KiwiBro said:


> Nope, if the tree is big or stringy enough.
> 
> Said the blind man to the deaf bugger.
> 
> *ETA* was the siz in that bottom pic doing anything? Looks like the fibres didn't pull forward into the siz so how much extra hanging on/steering did they actually do?


Those "full face siz' look like a ramp for the stem to turn on rather than a way to get more turn before pulling. Ironically, my "standard face" looks eerily like the Cody "full face siz"


----------



## KiwiBro

Yeah, kinda neat how it rips along the top of the siz, like it is a zip being unzipped.


----------



## Gypo Logger

Skeans said:


> Here's the ones of Cody's I had saved.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I like the angled undercut, would it turn the tree better had the backcut been at the same angle?


----------



## bitzer

It does look like the fibers broke early. Not for lack of trying. Just crappy wood.

Jon you can use any kind of dutchman you want on that far side. I always do.


----------



## BeatCJ

Off the top of my head (which is wooly inside this morning, up too late last night and early again this morning), that looks like a cedar, not really very strong wood, I suspect it would be harder to get it to turn anyway.


----------



## Metals406

KiwiBro said:


> Nope, if the tree is big or stringy enough.
> 
> Said the blind man to the deaf bugger.
> 
> *ETA* was the siz in that bottom pic doing anything? Looks like the fibres didn't pull forward into the siz so how much extra hanging on/steering did they actually do? A bit more from the taller hinge down that side but not as much as if they actually did hold on longer?


It was a rotten Black Cottonwood, he threw the siz in to give himself all the help he could get.


----------



## Metals406

HuskStihl said:


> Ok, for the dumbass. You put the sis-wedge on the pulling side to let the tree go further before the fibers twist and break?
> 
> Edit: any reason it couldn't be combined with a soft Dutch on the lean side?


Yes, a Siz can be used in conjunction with a swing-dutchman.


----------



## Metals406

Skeans said:


> Here's the ones of Cody's I had saved.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yup, this is a "full-face" Siz. Big, long fiber column -- lined up with a root in a sound tree -- it'll pull hard!

It's really just a tapered block-face; the goal being to allow the fibers in the hinge maximum flex.

You can also bore in behind the face too. It sets up a tall hinge, 'mucho flexo'. Good for dead or fragile/brittle fiber.


----------



## Skeans

Pretty close too?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## HuskStihl

I had no idea I've been such an advanced faller all this time! Cool stuff!


----------



## Metals406

Skeans said:


> Pretty close too?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'd call that a tapered block-face, cause its full width. A Siz would come to about 1/2 that distance -- as seen in Cody's pics if you look close.


----------



## Skeans

If you look at his again it's full width


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Metals406

Skeans said:


> If you look at his again it's full width
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I guess it's close on that one, I've been with him when he's put them in, & usually they're not full across, & more "regular face" is left.

I reckon there's a million variations though.

Always room to experiment! :0)


----------



## Metals406

HuskStihl said:


> I had no idea I've been such an advanced faller all this time! Cool stuff!


You can start teaching 'accuracy principles' with August.


----------



## Skeans

Metals406 said:


> I guess it's close on that one, I've been with him when he's put them in, & usually they're not full across, & more "regular face" is left.
> 
> I reckon there's a million variations though.
> 
> Always room to experiment! :0)



You glad busy with fires over there this year?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## northmanlogging

HuskStihl said:


> Ok, for the dumbass. You put the sis-wedge on the pulling side to let the tree go further before the fibers twist and break?
> 
> Edit: any reason it couldn't be combined with a soft Dutch on the lean side?



I do it all the time, as well as cut the hold wood on the off side from the face.

I've found that plunging in an inch or two behind and parallel to the siz on crap wood like cotton wood helps a great deal, like a second siz, Glen aka trampbusheler showed a pic of this once, had to try it


----------



## Skeans

Always liked Glen's full face Dutchmen, you guys have taught me a lot as well as the older guys I've cut with


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## dhskier2

Metals406 said:


> You can start teaching 'accuracy principles' with August.




I worked on one of the Chessman Flume projects a few years ago... glad those guys weren't in the vicinity at the time


----------



## Metals406

Skeans said:


> You glad busy with fires over there this year?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not quite yet, but we're drier than a popcorn fart already!


----------



## HuskStihl

Missed short, wasn't gonna matter, so I didn't bother to fix it


----------



## mdavlee

HuskStihl said:


> Missed short, wasn't gonna matter, so I didn't bother to fix it



You didn't run and scream like a girl this time[emoji6] 





Looks a lot less like a monkey screwing a football now.


----------



## northmanlogging

aw I miss the 15 minutes of hacking at the face...

nicely done sir, if a touch sloppy...


----------



## HuskStihl

northmanlogging said:


> aw I miss the 15 minutes of hacking at the face...
> 
> nicely done sir, if a touch sloppy...


That's what _she _said.........
I fell 15 trees today, and didn't hit the far corner once. That video very well represents the entire day.


----------



## Skeans

HuskStihl said:


> That's what _she _said.........
> I fell 15 trees today, and didn't hit the far corner once. That video very well represents the entire day.



Who checks the far corner anyways?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Metals406

HuskStihl said:


> Missed short, wasn't gonna matter, so I didn't bother to fix it



Not too bad Doc!


----------



## treeslayer2003

bitzer said:


> Treeslayer- this is how I put my sizwheels in.
> 
> View attachment 432187
> 
> 
> View attachment 432188
> 
> 
> View attachment 432189


thanks Bob, that does make it simpler now. i have been having trouble with this site lately, its working now but very slow. was starting to think i was bunned lol.


----------



## Tree Feller

Skeans said:


> Here's the ones of Cody's I had saved.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




So correct me if i'm wrong but this would pull the tree to the right in this picture? So it swings towards the sis-wheel right??


----------



## northmanlogging

yup


----------



## Tree Feller

So does this only work on trees where the fibers hold really well? Looks like if they broke pre-mature you could loose the swing effect?


----------



## HuskStihl

Tree Feller said:


> So does this only work on trees where the fibers hold really well? Looks like if they broke pre-mature you could loose the swing effect?


Uh-huh


----------



## Gologit

Tree Feller said:


> So does this only work on trees where the fibers hold really well? Looks like if they broke pre-mature you could loose the swing effect?


 Also, if you don't make your cuts exactly right the tree can take off on you. 
The siz is a good trick to know but I'd do my practicing on trees where it doesn't matter if they go sideways.


----------



## madhatte

Or, y'know, clobber a charcoal grill. (I shouda maybe known better but it looked so easy)


----------



## Tree Feller

So it's designed to swing it a complete 90 degrees? Meaning the tree should end up swung around as if the sis wheel notch was the face cut? Or does is swing it half of that distance? This all in a perfect world of course!


----------



## bitzer

The siz is a piece out of the face. Depends on the tree and what you're doing with the far corner. It can do more than 90. The goal is to expose the fibers on the pull side so they stay intact longer pulling the top around. Some species hold better than others. Top weight and lean need to be considered. Lots of factors.


----------



## bitzer

Jon- i don't recall where you asked about Clint, but he is doing well. I talked to him about six weeks ago. He was cutting for a couple of companies at the time and gettin way ahead of the skidder. Hes got a new 661 he likes. Other than that we talked about swinging trees.

Nice video by the way. You just need to handle the saw now like its your ***** and you've got it!


----------



## Metals406

Tree Feller said:


> So it's designed to swing it a complete 90 degrees? Meaning the tree should end up swung around as if the sis wheel notch was the face cut? Or does is swing it half of that distance? This all in a perfect world of course!


It's less of a 'swing' (that's what swing dutch's are for) & more of a 'hold-fast'.

Like Bob said, a way to control the chaos that is gravity pulling the tree down.


----------



## madhatte

Apparently the deer hunters of the midwest think barberchair is a useful trick: http://extremedeerhabitat.com/habitat-blog/


----------



## coltont

Is that website a joke?

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


----------



## Tree Feller

madhatte said:


> Apparently the deer hunters of the midwest think barberchair is a useful trick: http://extremedeerhabitat.com/habitat-blog/



I have seen this before. They claim they do it to keep the log off the ground so the deer has cover. Looks like a good way to get your head took off. I can see cuttling down small trees for this but some of those would make timber in the future. And great firewood.


----------



## northmanlogging

Tree Feller said:


> So it's designed to swing it a complete 90 degrees? Meaning the tree should end up swung around as if the sis wheel notch was the face cut? Or does is swing it half of that distance? This all in a perfect world of course!



Ideally you make you face cut in the direction you intend to fall the tree, the siz is to help the fibers on the pull side do their job.

Ultimately the face cut governs the direction of fall. The rest is manipulation of hold wood.

That being said a siz can and will pull the tree beyond where you intended it to fall, if it is holding really good, on the other hand it can come loose and fall short of planned.


----------



## northmanlogging

A thing with the siz that may or may not help and I'm not sure this will come out right...

The vertical cut should follow the gun cut of the face, doing your best to not leave any nicks or gouges in the face of the siz, taking your time with the sloping portion and not gouging helps as well.

Any nick or gouge in the vertical portion gives it a place to break prematurely.


----------



## HuskStihl

Thanks northy. If I ever try a "siz" it will just be for fun. It looks like a "horizontal block face". I use block faces to give the fibers more room to bend without pulling. The siz looks to give the swing a little more room to bend and not twist, which should keep it on the stump longer. How deep do you go on a "standard" (not full-face) siz?


----------



## madhatte

Siz is only half a block face. You want it to lift away from the side with the thin or absent hinge, then hold on to the side with the long hinge and lots of fiber bending room. Just start with a normal Humboldt pointing where you want the tree to go and pull the siz out of the side opposite the lean. Nip the hinge hard on the heavy side. Leave the hinge fat on the siz side and otherwise do the back cut more-or-less "as normal"; when the tree sits down on your bar, it's working. It should swing down on that momentum and then around to hang on the fat side until it swings around and closes the face. It should pull long fibers out of the stump.


----------



## Gologit

madhatte said:


> Siz is only half a block face. You want it to lift away from the side with the thin or absent hinge, then hold on to the side with the long hinge and lots of fiber bending room. Just start with a normal Humboldt pointing where you want the tree to go and pull the siz out of the side opposite the lean. Nip the hinge hard on the heavy side. Leave the hinge fat on the siz side and otherwise do the back cut more-or-less "as normal"; when the tree sits down on your bar, it's working. It should swing down on that momentum and then around to hang on the fat side until it swings around and closes the face. It should pull long fibers out of the stump.



...and try not to get your saw hung up. Right?


----------



## madhatte

Gologit said:


> ...and try not to get your saw hung up. Right?



That is exactly right. Rot doesn't do you any favors in this context. Once it sits down, it's down for good if it's not moving.


----------



## HuskStihl

Gologit said:


> ...and try not to get your saw hung up. Right?


Oh, the tragic foreshadowing.........
Just for grins.....

Tree was leaning 120 degrees from the face, with pretty good limb weight hurting the turn

I swear I was thinking "it's gonna sit, don't pinch u'r tip, it's gonna sit, don't pinch u'r tip....DOH!"

Honestly, thank goodness for the soft Dutch, I felt it go after I pinched the tip, and around it came


Obligatory stump shot


----------



## Metals406

It's really easy to have them sit on your bar tip, & you have to wait for them to roll around. Not as uncommon as you might think, & it happens quick.

Also, take note how the initial face closed and broke your siz. That can be a tool to use.

A steeper face will not close, and the siz fibers will hold a little longer. Give it a try.

Filming your stuff is an excellent training tool, because you can watch cause and effect after the fact.


----------



## Trx250r180

You cracked yer stump .


----------



## madhatte

Metals406 said:


> Filming your stuff is an excellent training tool, because you can watch cause and effect after the fact.



I wish I had done more of that earlier on.


----------



## HuskStihl

Metals406 said:


> It's really easy to have them sit on your bar tip, & you have to wait for them to roll around. Not as uncommon as you might think, & it happens quick.
> 
> Also, take note how the initial face closed and broke your siz. That can be a tool to use.
> 
> A steeper face will not close, and the siz fibers will hold a little longer. Give it a try.
> 
> Filming your stuff is an excellent training tool, because you can watch cause and effect after the fact.


Thanks. I've never had much luck turning hackberry, and that one turned better than most. I'll try sniping the face or "swansonning" it next time


----------



## bitzer

Quit hittn yer throttle Jon when it sits down! Otherwise it gives the impression you don't know whats going on!

You better not show that black magic in the saw section. You will get burned at the stake.

It sure is fun messin with swing cuts. The way it came off the stump it looked like it went beyond the face. Throw a snipe in the butt next time. Also do you see where you bypassed the top of your fibers? You don't want that. Clean it up with the saw. Those fibers are severed there. That will cause the fibers behind it to break early too.

Reading back I see Northy covered the bypass.


----------



## bitzer

coltont said:


> Is that website a joke?
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


Nope its real. Some guy wanted to pay me to do that to his woods. I told him no. Guys pay big money for advice from guys like that in the video. Its crazy to me because we have so many fn deer around here its not even funny.


----------



## KiwiBro

One of these days, someone so inclined will have two cameras - one at the tree and one in a drone hovering either directly above the tree or off to the side and above to best show the swing. That would be an interesting perspective.

Then, instead of handbags at dawn over tenths of seconds on cookies cuts, it'll be tenths of degrees.


----------



## HuskStihl

Northy's description was perfect, I just couldn't quite control the saw as well as I wanted.


----------



## northmanlogging

HuskStihl said:


> Northys descri



WUT!

I think we all need to find a nice alder thicket and a truck full of "soda" cans and see if we can flatten em all on the swing... Before an ambulance is called...


----------



## Gypo Logger

It's good that you are trying new felling cuts Jon, but the way I see it is that the game of logging is just too dangerous to be donkey dinking around.


----------



## rwoods

Gypo, if those high lift jacks aren't more dangerous than the game of logging then they are a close second. Very handy, but dangerous. Ron


----------



## Gypo Logger

rwoods said:


> Gypo, if those high lift jacks aren't more dangerous than the game of logging then they are a close second. Very handy, but dangerous. Ron


I hear ya, the handle of the jack hit me at least a dozen times in the chin before the tree did a 180. Lol


----------



## HuskStihl

I'm definitely just a messer-arounder.


----------



## Gypo Logger

HuskStihl said:


> I'm definitely just a messer-arounder.


Most of my stuff I've learned were from these guys.


----------



## Metals406

KiwiBro said:


> One of these days, someone so inclined will have two cameras - one at the tree and one in a drone hovering either directly above the tree or off to the side and above to best show the swing. That would be an interesting perspective.
> 
> Then, instead of handbags at dawn over tenths of seconds on cookies cuts, it'll be tenths of degrees.


My buddy not only has trees fir me to cut, but he has a drone too.

I might try to make this happen.


----------



## Metals406

4' burnt out Pondy.


----------



## Metals406

Get'n 3G in the woods on the fire. Jim just cut a nasty. Life of a snagger.


----------



## HuskStihl

Metals406 said:


> Get'n 3G in the woods on the fire. Jim just cut a nasty. Life of a snagger.


Yuk


----------



## madhatte

Dang, yo, those are sketchy. Be careful.


----------



## Metals406

madhatte said:


> Dang, yo, those are sketchy. Be careful.


Super sketchy, but that's why we get the big bucks. 

Got moved to a new Division today and had to snag a cat line. That's where that picture came from.

Sounds like about 3-4 more days and we'll be demobed. They've worked hard to keep us here.

Big back-burn scheduled for Wednesday with the helo torch. They want us here for that too, which is cool.


----------



## madhatte

I usually have the cat bump over the ones I am not willing to cut. My brains ain't got ROPS/FOPS!


----------



## Metals406

These were all on the soon to be black side of the line, on extreme grade.

He helped us with one hung Grand fir/blowdown, we had to get all the others.


----------



## madhatte

I do not envy you. That's hot, dirty, dangerous work.


----------



## northmanlogging

its hot dirty dangerous work, and I think I want in on it...


----------



## northmanlogging

Some spring board fun from this morning, 

That sucker was rotten and I had to turn it 90 deg to the left so I needed to get above that squishy spot, kind worked. smashed a leave tree, but didn't smash the barn in the background.


----------



## Samlock

northmanlogging said:


> Some spring board fun from this morning,
> 
> That sucker was rotten and I had to turn it 90 deg to the left so I needed to get above that squishy spot, kind worked. smashed a leave tree, but didn't smash the barn in the background.
> View attachment 436586



Any hurry stepping out when you heard it popping?


----------



## northmanlogging

Samlock said:


> Any hurry stepping out when you heard it popping?



I was on the ground whacking wedges when it went, pic was a photo op... But I had that extra board in there if'n I needed to go in a hurry, Doc say's no jumping and whatnot for awhile...


----------



## Metals406

Jim cut'n on the cat line mid day, last week.

I had run out of fuel, so I figured I'd film.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0ELiypLqTtbV2RIZjZmLUtjcjA/view?usp=drivesdk


----------



## Samlock

Out to milk rotten trees.


----------



## Metals406

Samlock said:


> Out to milk rotten trees.


Hahaha no doubt!


----------



## madhatte

"Yummy tree milk" is the quote of the day for sure, followed by "This one's not as rotten". Good vid, fine snaggin'!


----------



## Eccentric

You have a sexy camera voice too Nate.


----------



## Metals406

madhatte said:


> "Yummy tree milk" is the quote of the day for sure, followed by "This one's not as rotten". Good vid, fine snaggin'!


Next time you cut a tree down, gaze at the stump, turn to one of your helpers -- tilt your hardhat like ol Pat and say, "Yup, just like I though. . . Tree milk."

Then walk away.


----------



## Metals406

Eccentric said:


> You have a sexy camera voice too Nate.


That's my siren song.


----------



## Eccentric

Metals406 said:


> That's my siren song.




LOL. 

Is the bar on your partner's new saw a Techlite? Hard for my eyes to tell from the video................but I do see the orange stripe on the rail (near the powerhead on this one..............where Techlites have had it near the tip). 

Can't see enough detail to see if it has a Techlite tip (or any replaceable tip..............the bar's too shiny in the video). 

The bar also looks to be longer than 28" (longest length that was offered with the Techlite). I'm hoping that this here is a new/current production Husky 30-32" length lightweight bar, and that they're available for purchase....


----------



## Metals406

It is a Techlite and a 28" -- the saw was new a few days before the video.

His 575 will get the mothballs.


----------



## Eccentric

Metals406 said:


> It is a Techlite and a 28" -- the saw was new a few days before the video.
> 
> His 575 will get the mothballs.



Good to hear. I wasn't aware that Husqvarna was selling Techlites again. They're not on the Husky website yet. Funny that bar looked longer than 28" to me in the video.


----------



## Gypo Logger




----------



## tramp bushler

madhatte said:


> I usually have the cat bump over the ones I am not willing to cut. My brains ain't got ROPS/FOPS!





madhatte said:


> I usually have the cat bump over the ones I am not willing to cut. My brains ain't got ROPS/FOPS!




I had one of my dozer bosses in the cab of Olga with me one afternoon , he was little and flexible enuf , and the cab was big enough so I could stuff him behind the seat . He hadnt run a dozer before ao he got to see things from my pov. A new road had just been pushed in down a ridge thru hard black and I was giving him a ride up to get his 4wheeler. . He had told me to get any bad looking snags I saw so I figured Ide kill 2 birds with 1 rock. 3 actually. . The 5H Grapple is wwll set up for getting out on piles and rootin around. . Lot of clearence from the belly to the ground. . He qas like a kid at a carnival ! . granted none of the trees were over 16" dbh. . After 1 particularly fun multi tree push I told him. " this is why kids want to run bulldozers " . I think he agreed


----------



## tramp bushler

Skeans said:


> Always liked Glen's full face Dutchmen, you guys have taught me a lot as well as the older guys I've cut with
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





Skeans said:


> Always liked Glen's full face Dutchmen, you guys have taught me a lot as well as the older guys I've cut with
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




I dont use Full Face dutchmen !! Not on purpose anyway !!!!!


----------



## tramp bushler

A kerf dutchman needs to terminate at the point across the width of the stump where your holding wood starts.


----------



## Metals406

tramp bushler said:


> I dont use Full Face dutchmen !! Not on purpose anyway !!!!!


Bout every production cutter over 50 years old I've seen cut in this neck of the woods, dutches the face.

Usually because they're gonna chase it off the stump anyway, so they don't mind matching in the kerf.

I try to be pretty anal about my mechanics. . . Not always though.


----------



## tramp bushler

It should b tapered. Tho sometimes they are about the outline of 2 good slices of pie . I step my dutchmen often. As I'm fairley averse to beating wedges for no reason.


----------



## Metals406

tramp bushler said:


> It should b tapered. Tho sometimes they are about the outline of 2 good slices of pie . I step my dutchmen often. As I'm fairley averse to beating wedges for no reason.


If I miss, I miss low on purpose, it leaves me a baby block face, & I know it won't close early.


----------



## bitzer

I've used full face dutch when I've needed the tree free of the stump in a hurry, but I couldn't hang around to cut it off. You only need to go chain deep in the face and you better gut it.


----------



## northmanlogging

Cut some quacking aspens yesterday, nothing real impressive, neighbor job, any way, siz'd em nearly 180 (with the help of a pull line) had to cut the hold wood off after they landed, did not expect them to hold so well.


----------



## tramp bushler

Ive used Sizwheels to swing about every species of tree that guys told me couldnt be swing . A siz and a mulit step dutchman will bring around cotton wood, poplar , aspen, willow . and red and yellow cedar . works good on red alder also. Ive slso used them on birch that was brittle on the stump. "over age" . andthing thats brittle or too soft. Black spruce is brittle but usually gnarly on the stump . siz to the rescue. . White spruce bettle kill , brittle, use a big open siz to get it into the lay I wanted to make yarding better / good . Also, Ive found that it will pull a tree around without pulling the guts out of your holding wood side . My theroy is because more of the holding wood is working in unison. Which is why they will sometimes pull part of the stump out of the ground.


----------



## tramp bushler

You wouldnt believe some of the black hearted , frost checked red cedar Ive swung with a siz.


----------



## northmanlogging

You posted a pic many months ago of a second cut in the back side, sort of a secondary siz, I've been using that on cotton woods... usually works... usually.


Red alder down here will swing like crazy if done right, I usually have to cut em off before they go to far!


----------



## tramp bushler

I experimented with the staged Siz when I really all the holding wood strength I could get. It works great in the right situation.


----------



## HuskStihl

Another siz. It turned, or more appropriately, held a cottonwood about 45 degrees from its lean, which was more than enough


----------



## bitzer

Ya gotta feel that kerf closing and pull out before she sits on ya in the face like that. Also get the far side cut off. When its that rotten its tough but do-able. The soft dutch does nothing if not cut all the way through to the back and then stepped from there. If you would have gotten that far side cut off and then just left some fatty holding wood on the pull side you would have gotten the same effect. Rotten wood doesn't roll around the stump well. You have to pull the side of the stump out to really get er to go. Looked like fun to cut. Hopefully you didn't have to clean it!


----------



## HuskStihl

bitzer said:


> Ya gotta feel that kerf closing and pull out before she sits on ya in the face like that. Also get the far side cut off. When its that rotten its tough but do-able. The soft dutch does nothing if not cut all the way through to the back and then stepped from there. If you would have gotten that far side cut off and then just left some fatty holding wood on the pull side you would have gotten the same effect. Rotten wood doesn't roll around the stump well. You have to pull the side of the stump out to really get er to go. Looked like fun to cut. Hopefully you didn't have to clean it!


Unfortunately.........


----------



## HuskStihl

Thanks Bitz! This was in Vermont, and my buddy Adirondackstihl brought the saws. I set up the face, and he got the honor. The Siz may have been unnecessary, but that tree was leaning right onto the beach, which would have been a cleanup disaster.

BTW, the 461 R is a really nice saw. Felt stronger than the woods ported 066


----------



## Trx250r180

HuskStihl said:


> Thanks Bitz! This was in Vermont, and my buddy Adirondackstihl brought the saws. I set up the face, and he got the honor. The Siz may have been unnecessary, but that tree was leaning right onto the beach, which would have been a cleanup disaster.
> 
> BTW, the 461 R is a really nice saw. Felt stronger than the woods ported 066



He put a 460 coil in that saw yet ?


----------



## HuskStihl

Trx250r180 said:


> He put a 460 coil in that saw yet ?


Bone stock. The first quad port Stihl I've run. Totally different. Revs like my 385


----------



## Trx250r180

HuskStihl said:


> Bone stock. The first quad port Stihl I've run. Totally different. Revs like my 385


That is why i like my hybrids better ,461 has grunt ,but the screamin sound of my hybrid bouncin off the trees can't be beat .


----------



## bitzer

HuskStihl said:


> Thanks Bitz! This was in Vermont, and my buddy Adirondackstihl brought the saws. I set up the face, and he got the honor. The Siz may have been unnecessary, but that tree was leaning right onto the beach, which would have been a cleanup disaster.
> 
> BTW, the 461 R is a really nice saw. Felt stronger than the woods ported 066



At 1:15 if the far side holding wood was gone the tree would have tipped. Its very easy to overcut your pull wood and then not get the pull you need to tip the tree. Getting that far side wood cut on a rotten sob is the tough part. Wedges can help. It had some forward lean, you just needed the side to fall in too. Obviously you guys got it where you you wanted, just future reference. The siz cut looked pretty though!


----------



## HuskStihl

I very much appreciate u'r advice, and actually understand what you are saying. I hope Jeremy doesn't see this, but I wasn't comfortable having him under the lean side any longer than absolutely necessary. Especially on a rotten cottonwood on my property. I had intentionally dutched the gunning cut well past the undercut on the far side from the face. I wanted to let him fall the tree, with minimal danger to him, but have it go where I needed it. Look at me talkin' like I know stuff. I hope old bob misses this poast!


----------



## hseII

HuskStihl said:


> Thanks Bitz! This was in Vermont, and my buddy Adirondackstihl brought the saws. I set up the face, and he got the honor. The Siz may have been unnecessary, but that tree was leaning right onto the beach, which would have been a cleanup disaster.
> 
> BTW, the 461 R is a really nice saw. Felt stronger than the woods ported 066



Leprawookie travels to Vermont?

What, no short Story?


----------



## HuskStihl

I gots a cabin 30 minutes from Jeremy's hizous


----------



## hseII

HuskStihl said:


> I gots a cabin 30 minutes from Jeremy's hizous


Awesome. 

So your a TexaVermonter?


----------



## HuskStihl

I lived in burlington for a few years when I was a kid, and my grandmama lived in southern Vermont until she died. I've always really liked pretty much everything about VT, except winter


----------



## Gologit

HuskStihl said:


> I hope old bob misses this poast!



I'm here a little bit early in the morning and sometimes for a couple of minutes late at night. Busy otherwise.
I saw your video.


----------



## HuskStihl

Gologit said:


> I'm here a little bit early in the morning and sometimes for a couple of minutes late at night. Busy otherwise.
> I saw your video.


Whew! Got off easy that time!


----------



## Gologit

HuskStihl said:


> Whew! Got off easy that time!


 Yup, you lucked out.  'nite.


----------



## Samlock

The ugliest of the season so far. Logging by a highway, which is about to get wider some of these days.


----------



## HuskStihl

Have fun limbing! You are about 80% as ruggedly handsome as KenJax and I. That's pretty good, congratulations!


----------



## bitzer

Holy limbing batman!


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## Skeans

Hemlock or spruce?


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## Samlock

It's a Norwegian Spruce. The picture doesn't show, but the stem forked after few steps. The forwarder operator was standing on the stump and caught me asking, whether he fancies stretching his legs. He passed it. It took three hours to clean up. While the bulldozer unit keeps closing in every minute.


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## mdavlee




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## hseII

mdavlee said:


> View attachment 442713
> 
> 
> View attachment 442714


PA wood Mike?

What did it die from? [emoji41]


----------



## mdavlee

Yep. 

Not sure but there's a ton of it dead.


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## Skeans

Haven't done any cutting in about three weeks with the heat and break downs but they have us having good saws back in the brush to make dams with the possibility of placing beaver on this job. I'll get some pictures when it's light. Got to love when you're tax dollars are at work. 




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## chucker

Skeans said:


> Haven't done any cutting in about three weeks with the heat and break downs but they have us having good saws back in the brush to make dams with the possibility of placing beaver on this job. I'll get some pictures when it's light.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


LOL!! IT'S GOOD TO HAVE A LITTLE BEAVER ON THE JOB FOR MAKING THE DULL DAY IN THE BUSH..... movies are not to bad either when home with the wife.


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## 056 kid

tramp bushler said:


> I had one of my dozer bosses in the cab of Olga with me one afternoon , he was little and flexible enuf , and the cab was big enough so I could stuff him behind the seat . He hadnt run a dozer before ao he got to see things from my pov. A new road had just been pushed in down a ridge thru hard black and I was giving him a ride up to get his 4wheeler. . He had told me to get any bad looking snags I saw so I figured Ide kill 2 birds with 1 rock. 3 actually. . The 5H Grapple is wwll set up for getting out on piles and rootin around. . Lot of clearence from the belly to the ground. . He qas like a kid at a carnival ! . granted none of the trees were over 16" dbh. . After 1 particularly fun multi tree push I told him. " this is why kids want to run bulldozers " . I think he agreed




I'll probably sound foolish, but a dozer is the only one besides powersaw that I feel, like i used to operate them in a past life. Our skidder engineer, (engineer, is that proper?) Says he feels uneasy on one, yet he is farely proficient & is not scared to use the the timberjack to its capabilities. Im totally opposite, granted i have less time than he does on a rubber tire skidder by far. The skidder is like work. The cat, like the saw feels like I am part of the machine, doing something a little more fun, or maybe natural. Homogenization of man & machine brings a special little kind of feeling. 

Now give me 20 years lord willing and I'll make another assesment. The banging around is part of the fun now, I can see that changing over time though.
Thinking now, it would be a real treat to hear everyones dozer related stories. What to do with them, what not to do. All the stuff that a guy who knows his stuff knows. And we've got them here, or had. Im not around enough to know whos who. You & Bob could probably make a good starting contribution, to a thread, that I may start, if there is not one already in existance. Have a good morning Folks


----------



## 056 kid

About half of what was a nice sized honey bee hive. Other half is attached to the top. I knew there where bees in there so I left about 5' attached to the forks. I misjudged... dont know how many times i got stung, but none of them took place anywhere near the hive. I'd be 200 yds from the hive and id be getting stung repetitavely. Go stand 2 feet from the hive and no stings.


----------



## 056 kid

Maybe a little smaller than they look.


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## mdavlee

056 kid said:


> Maybe a little smaller than they look. View attachment 444064


Looks like nice sized poplar


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## 056 kid

mdavlee said:


> Looks like nice sized poplar


I think western nc and across state line in the smokies spoiled me for the east coast wood. Sssssssshhhhhh, don't tell anyone but I'm getting back to the rite coast soon...


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## Gologit

056 kid said:


> I'll probably sound foolish, but a dozer is the only one besides powersaw that I feel, like i used to operate them in a past life. Our skidder engineer, (engineer, is that proper?) Says he feels uneasy on one, yet he is farely proficient & is not scared to use the the timberjack to its capabilities. Im totally opposite, granted i have less time than he does on a rubber tire skidder by far. The skidder is like work. The cat, like the saw feels like I am part of the machine, doing something a little more fun, or maybe natural. Homogenization of man & machine brings a special little kind of feeling.
> 
> Now give me 20 years lord willing and I'll make another assesment. The banging around is part of the fun now, I can see that changing over time though.
> Thinking now, it would be a real treat to hear everyones dozer related stories. What to do with them, what not to do. All the stuff that a guy who knows his stuff knows. And we've got them here, or had. Im not around enough to know whos who. You & Bob could probably make a good starting contribution, to a thread, that I may start, if there is not one already in existance. Have a good morning Folks



Good post. But be careful Ted...you lose IQ points for every day you spend on one of those big yellow machines.


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## 056 kid

Gologit said:


> Good post. But be careful Ted...you lose IQ points for every day you spend on one of those big yellow machines.



You just diagnosed my current bosses mystery illness. LMAO 

As for me, i think I've gotten rid of all of the ones that where gonna go if they ever got the chance. The ringing in my left ear is still here after being walloped by a bowed over hickory of maybe 5 or 6" dbh 8? Years ago. A larger tree lodged ina standing tree and took that hickory over too. I figured id saw in a face till it started to eat my chain and then let it go over. It kicked off the stump instead. I think the way i was standing probably saved me from seriouse injury. Im pretty sure it got my whole left side. The tree It sent me cartwheeling "15" feet through the air according to the boss who was backing down the road that I landed in. He thought I was dead, so it may very well have just hit my noggin for me to be spinning like such.There was no pain anywhere but there. I dont see how it didn't break something..I woke up in the dirt wondering why the chainsaw was off, and why it was 15 feet away from me in my periferie. When i looked over at it all i could see was a pretty white light. I tried to finish the day. The next swath was bordering some very large powerlines to the paper mill a few miles away. I tried to gun a face cut, couldn't even see my kerf let alone the sight. I couldn't see if the tree was heavy on one side or if it even had limbs on it. I decided stop while I was living. 

So yeah, i don't think that eposide made me smarter, maybe just little bit wiser. It hasent happened since. Not to that intensity. Live & learn. Im sure its still here where I spoke about my habit of not getting away from the stump. What did you guys tell me? Dont do it, for the most part. What did I do? Well I didn't listen. One good cross ways piece of locust and 2 torpedo poplar limbs is all it took there have been a number of sticks to clang a shoulder or knock a hat sideways. But that big poplar limb was too heavy for one person to even pick up. That one I think got catapulted into a tree behind me. Cause it was like a good 10 seconds befor the lights went out. The locust woud have killed me im sure of it. It grazed my back. KO. When i came to I was scared to try to move for fear of something not responding. The bigger of the poplar torpedos put my tin hat into my head. 5 staples from that. The smaller one hurt bad enough to be scary but not scary enough not to be angry about it. I feel like another good one to the head may be the last one. Thanks for trying though.


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## tramp bushler

We all get ( learning curves ) unfortunately ! Thos s still post inghere have lived thru them . Hoqever, my body isnt the same as if I


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## tramp bushler

Hadn't got hurt. the thing is, when a tree chucks a guy through the air, He doesnt have any control of anything. And as u indicated , not getting away from the stump far enough can get u hurt or killed. Thats what killed John Clark, Gary Thill and a few other guys Ive cut with Its what brokw Duane Loqe's neck twice . the 2 nd time it ended his carrer. And there are a bunch of other guys , myself included that had far too close a call. . Gary Thill did get away from the tree that got him but he was on horrible ground and couldnt get far enough away. 
. A guy doesnt want to just blindly run away but rather have a plan and work the plan . Its best to have a good tree to hide behind. I say this for the benefit of any new guys , lurkers and as a reminder for the old hands.


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## coltont

Look up and when your cutting dicey **** have a few areas that you can retreat to. Getting clobbered sucks. Don't get complacent.

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## rwoods

Not logging just a little firewood cutting, But what did I do wrong, besides misjudging the limb load?

I had this train wreck of a red oak to fall. It was right on the fence line and property line. Saturday, I successfully got the broken top down and off the remains of an old pump house that was partially supporting it, without further damage. No real skill there, just a lot of thought and sequencing.  Anyway, I went to fall the stem today. I first cut the overhead stuff that might hurt me leaving only a shortened small limb to the far right (far left in picture) and the main branch that forked - the larger left was in a white pine and the smaller right was in the clear, but both were to the right of the fence. I sighted it down the middle of the fork and cut the left side hinge hoping to give it some more persuasion to roll a bit to the right. But despite limbing the white pine on the way down, it rolled to the left so much so that the fork landed square on a fence post elevating the trunk end. I cut the trunk free leaving it on the left of the fence and the top in the brush on the right; all without hurting the fence. Other than the white pine, it ended up looking like a magic trick but it was all unintended. Please check out my stump and let me know if I could/should have done something different. 

Thanks, Ron

Original condition:



There's a pump house in there:



Cleared out to see better:




Up close of broken top:



Today's job (pump house in foreground and fence on each of stem):



Stump shots:

Tapered hinge -about 3" wide on right side: (The butt is pretty much on plane with its original falling position - parallel to the fence but on the left side ; this picture is after I cut it free from the top.) 



The stump is level so this shot is a little deceiving but you can see on the stump and the stem where I partially overcut the undercut in the center from about 4" in on the near side to about 3" from the far side and where I went back in to take out the far corner (bar was shorter than the width of the required cuts). I didn't think anything about cutting the middle as I left uncut wood on each side. Turned out that some of the far side was punky. Is my "overcut" undercut what threw things off? Or what? 




Poor Pine:


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## northmanlogging

Looks and sounds like yer hold wood just failed, ya did most everything right, except maybe cut a little to much hold wood off the one side, but yer dealing with a damaged tree, and some times this is the result.

Me being me, I probably would have taken a little smaller undercut, and left more hold wood, then beat wedges until I was bright red and moist... then the hold wood would have broke anyway.


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## rwoods

NL, 

Thanks. This thing has bugged me so much that I reconstructed the crime at lunch today. I believe you are on the money - hinge broke too soon. My bar was too short (a 33") and I was too lazy to climb the fence so in attempting to reach the far side on my face cut I accidentally set things up for an unintended Dutchman when the far side holding wood failed which apparently caused a stall that broke my tapered hinge resulting in loss of control of the fall. The limb weight was enough to make the stem roll to the left. What I was missing in my earlier analysis was the premature breaking of my hinge. I was too focused on thinking the overcut should have actually help move things to the right; it didn't occur to me until your post and my visit to the stump today that the stall from the overcut must have caused my hinge to break prematurely.

You can see in the fourth picture a dead limb that was directly overhead which is why I wanted to cut it without beating it over. I did have two wedges in place side by side though. If I had to repeat this, I think a less sloppy face cut would have been sufficient.

Ron


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## madhatte

I had a similar hinge-breaking incident a few years ago cleaning up after a storm. I cut a sycamore, a species I was unfamiliar with, and found the wood dense and wet and the fibers short and brittle (it was a cold winter day) and its broad crown ripped my hinge right off of the near side. It bounced the tree off a cement wall, did no damage, and made me re-think that tree a few times. Looking back, I should have left a way fatter hinge on the side that tore off and nipped the far side so it would pull toward me when it went. The fiber behavior was what got me. I expected it to be less brittle. By contrast, on the same cleanup project I cut a hickory whose fibers were so long and strong that I couldn't get them to break. I wedged and wedged and nibbled and nibbled and in the end got it to go over when the hinge was only about a half inch thick and the wedges were stacked 3 high. When it tipped, it was in slow motion, and pulled almost 3 feet of fiber out of both the stem and the stump. That one I should have gutted. Ah, well, that's how we learn.


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## northmanlogging

Knots will get ya too.

Had more then a couple go funky because of an old hidden knot (cottonwoods mostly).

I the now immortal words of D. Douglas Dent examine your stumps, especially the ones that went wrong, learn to read them and understand what went wrong... (more or less anyway, at least how I remember it...)


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## coltont

Getting to low on a hard maple or white/red oak will get you too. The grain gets real wavy where the butt flares close to the ground and that stuff is weak and unforgiving.

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## Skeans

rwoods said:


> NL,
> 
> Thanks. This thing has bugged me so much that I reconstructed the crime at lunch today. I believe you are on the money - hinge broke too soon. My bar was too short (a 33") and I was too lazy to climb the fence so in attempting to reach the far side on my face cut I accidentally set things up for an unintended Dutchman when the far side holding wood failed which apparently caused a stall that broke my tapered hinge resulting in loss of control of the fall. The limb weight was enough to make the stem roll to the left. What I was missing in my earlier analysis was the premature breaking of my hinge. I was too focused on thinking the overcut should have actually help move things to the right; it didn't occur to me until your post and my visit to the stump today that the stall from the overcut must have caused my hinge to break prematurely.
> 
> You can see in the fourth picture a dead limb that was directly overhead which is why I wanted to cut it without beating it over. I did have two wedges in place side by side though. If I had to repeat this, I think a less sloppy face cut would have been sufficient.
> 
> Ron


If you're cutting with a short bar take the tip until you feel a lip then back bar it you're even across your sight cut.

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## rwoods

Skeans & Co., thanks for the tips. The more I think about what I did the more foolish I feel. I cut so few trees and have all the time in the world to do them; I should be more careful and observant. Ron


----------



## madhatte

northmanlogging said:


> Knots will get ya too.
> 
> Had more then a couple go funky because of an old hidden knot (cottonwoods mostly).
> 
> I the now immortal words of D. Douglas Dent examine your stumps, especially the ones that went wrong, learn to read them and understand what went wrong... (more or less anyway, at least how I remember it...)



D. Dent wisdom is best paid attention to. I always take the time to fret my mistakes and try not to make them a second time. I left one particular extra-ugly stump as-is so that I could look at it when I needed humbling... but the grounds guys ground it out awhile back so whatever lessons I've learned are all I'm gonna get from that one. No matter. I've got plenty more mistakes left to make.


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## coltont

At least you can still live and learn!!

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## rwoods

I hope to stay that way for a few more years. Ron


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## coltont

It's once you get a good clobbering you'll learn not to get complacent and lazy.

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## Skeans

rwoods said:


> Skeans & Co., thanks for the tips. The more I think about what I did the more foolish I feel. I cut so few trees and have all the time in the world to do them; I should be more careful and observant. Ron


Hey I'm young and still learning it's just something I learned cutting cedar it's soft so it's a something I've learned to do.

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## madhatte

Anybody who is still interested in learning is OK in my book. Anybody who already knows it all and has nothing left to learn can take a walk. That goes for everything in life, not just cutting trees. That also includes me -- if I ever refuse to learn from somebody with more experience than me, I hope that I shrivel up and blow away, long before I fail to listen to somebody else's info that could save my life or just make mine easier. I expect y'all to feel free to ride herd on me for that statement. I tell my crews that every year and I'd estimate that I've learned at least twice as much from them over the years as they have from me.


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## Skeans

madhatte said:


> Anybody who is still interested in learning is OK in my book. Anybody who already knows it all and has nothing left to learn can take a walk. That goes for everything in life, not just cutting trees. That also includes me -- if I ever refuse to learn from somebody with more experience than me, I hope that I shrivel up and blow away, long before I fail to listen to somebody else's info that could save my life or just make mine easier. I expect y'all to feel free to ride herd on me for that statement. I tell my crews that every year and I'd estimate that I've learned at least twice as much from them over the years as they have from me.


Madhatte you're welcome to join us one day.

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## northmanlogging

madhatte said:


> Anybody who is still interested in learning is OK in my book. Anybody who already knows it all and has nothing left to learn can take a walk. That goes for everything in life, not just cutting trees. That also includes me -- if I ever refuse to learn from somebody with more experience than me, I hope that I shrivel up and blow away, long before I fail to listen to somebody else's info that could save my life or just make mine easier. I expect y'all to feel free to ride herd on me for that statement. I tell my crews that every year and I'd estimate that I've learned at least twice as much from them over the years as they have from me.



The problem arises when you know whats really going on and some other whinge waffle wants to tell you what he thinks is correct, then said whinge waffle ****s up good and big...


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## madhatte

Due diligence, yo. Gotta at least try to educate the fools.


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## rwoods

This old fool has a lot to learn. I was cleaning up the broken pine branches today at the crime scene and noticed through an opening in the nearby chicken coop a spoked wheel. I stuck my arm through and came back with this photo of a barn find. Made me think a little more about what might have been lost if those limbs were longer, or the snag taller, than I thought. I listen to you guys because good happenstances although they occur can't be depended upon. Ron 

A little Italian Harley that has been sitting a while.


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## Squad_Boss

Double face cut ms362c


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## rwoods

Don't let the boys in the chainsaw forum see that picture as many over there think that your saw can't handle anything over an 18" bar. Nice picture btw. Ron


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## northmanlogging

When I loaded up the crummy this morning I was thinking... I shouldn't need the 066 these cedars aren't all that big...

For scale thats a 461 and a 32" Bar


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## Skeans

Got to love butt swollen cedar and itching all day from them as well

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## HuskStihl

Did y'all hear?
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/never-thought-it-could-happen-to-me.285736/


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## Squad_Boss

My 362 has a 28" stihl light bar (full skip). Its wore that bar since I bought the saw a year ago. Have had no issues yet. Oils just fine. The saw now has a 3/4 wrap handle on it and redwood felling dawgs.
This week I went in to buy a saw at our local dealer, they had two 461s in stock with 36" light bars and high flo air filters + dual port mufflers. Price was $1250 each. I was. standing there contemplating whether I wanted one then I turned around and noticed a new 661c on the shelf . All stock with 36" light bar for the same price as the 461s!! I was like 'screw this! I want that one right there! lol' 
I've only ran a tank of gas through it but I'm well pleased with my purchase. The AV is as good as my 362c and so far seems very fuel efficient for a 90cc class saw. I can't wait to drop some hoot dogs with it.


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## northmanlogging

Skeans said:


> Got to love butt swollen cedar and itching all day from them as well
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk



This one didn't have much for swell, nice taper to about 40' where she split all to hell and madusa'd, bucked it at 36 and it was still around 30" maybe a little more. got two 26's out of the tops,and almost another 16'

It's neighbor is bigger... Passed on it this morning since its much bigger and has a spur on one side... needed to clear everything on that side first.


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## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> This one didn't have much for swell, nice taper to about 40' where she split all to hell and madusa'd, bucked it at 36 and it was still around 30" maybe a little more. got two 26's out of the tops,and almost another 16'
> 
> It's neighbor is bigger... Passed on it this morning since its much bigger and has a spur on one side... needed to clear everything on that side first.


It never fails they either break or bounce all over and the butt is way in the air. Sounds like it's time for a 42 here soon.

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## Skeans

Squad_Boss said:


> My 362 has a 28" stihl light bar (full skip). Its wore that bar since I bought the saw a year ago. Have had no issues yet. Oils just fine. The saw now has a 3/4 wrap handle on it and redwood felling dawgs.
> This week I went in to buy a saw at our local dealer, they had two 461s in stock with 36" light bars and high flo air filters + dual port mufflers. Price was $1250 each. I was. standing there contemplating whether I wanted one then I turned around and noticed a new 661c on the shelf . All stock with 36" light bar for the same price as the 461s!! I was like 'screw this! I want that one right there! lol'
> I've only ran a tank of gas through it but I'm well pleased with my purchase. The AV is as good as my 362c and so far seems very fuel efficient for a 90cc class saw. I can't wait to drop some hoot dogs with it.


The little 562xpw will oil a 32 just finished it's the firewood guys that freak out over a 1/4" bar they think it won't work or handle it.

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## northmanlogging

Buddy of mine his big saw is an ms 260 sporting a 28" bar... Granted he's not logging or anything, but I've seen him fall some decent timber with it.


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## rwoods

Not a logger but I have used 25" bars on 60cc Stihls for about 15 years. I have two non-Mtronic 362s which I think are fine saws. Every now and then, the hobbyists' complaints are right though. I never understood all the fussing about flippy caps and oilers as my 362s don't leak and my saws oils well, but I understand a little better now. My new to me 361 leaks fuel on your leg and despite maxing the oiler, it only puts out a half of tank of oil to one tank of fuel. I guess I'll be digging through the chainsaw threads to find my remedies.

Ron


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## mdavlee

I've got the fix for the oiler Ron. You'll have to buy 3 flippy caps to get one that fits the tank good. Seems every one is a tiny bit different.


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## Skeans

I had to watch the guys with the flippy caps when we'd be doing Christmas trees they were always not getting them on right.

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## rwoods

Mike, do you have a link for the oiler fix? I know the leaking cap affects my oil to fuel mileage but oil to the bar is nonetheless lacking on my 361. 

So those flippy caps aren't adjustable?

Ron


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## mdavlee

Flippy caps aren't adjustable but some just don't seal good on some tanks. 

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/044-046-oiler-modified-illustrated.275634/


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## derwoodii

few sticks of pine go down and away


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## northmanlogging

On the subject of flippy caps, they do go bad, just replaced one yesterday, and there is a bit of a learning curve with em, but I've grown to like em, once you get the hang of how they lock, they stay locked.
The old screw caps had a habit of coming loose when you didn't torque em down...


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## Squad_Boss

Another downfall with the old screworld on caps is it was to easy to poke a hole in them when tightening them with a bar wrench. Most of the time they held just finger tight though.


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## Squad_Boss

My phone can't spell. Screw on not screw world


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## rwoods

Not trying to permanently derail this thread, and maybe it is just a McCulloch thing, but it seems everything that screws on by hand takes a tool to get off and everything that screws on with a tool falls out on it own. Ron


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## coltont

No killing trees with this saw today 


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## Eccentric

ouch...


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## HuskStihl

That's not the 661 is it? Sorry to see u'r piston skirt in the muffler


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## coltont

oldest 660 I've got.

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## derwoodii

coltont said:


> oldest 660 I've got



took a few thousand logs before it was done ?


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## coltont

Few million board feet. I'd say 4 or 5

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## Metals406

coltont said:


> Few million board feet. I'd say 4 or 5
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


Sounds like it served you well, and deserves a complete rebuild. :0)


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## coltont

It got a set of crank bearings about 18 months ago. It's a good parts saw now.

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## madhatte

Dang. That's pretty complete piston death there.


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## northmanlogging

That's pretty spectacular.

If yer gonna blow it up might as well do it big.


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## Skeans

Oh boy time to do a little hand falling in 25 year old timber that was preconned already thank god, wish the harvester hadn't of blown the hydraulic pump.

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## Skeans

A few pictures I thought you'd guys would like of some poles we did the 90's.

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## Skeans

Anyone cutting still?

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## northmanlogging

yeah, just nothing fun so no pics


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## bitzer

Every day


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## Gologit

Skeans said:


> Anyone cutting still?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk



Nope. One of our fires took care of any cutting we had planned. There's so much burn salvage timber, some from last year, going into the mills that the price is ridiculously low.


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## northmanlogging

This can go here...


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## Skeans

Gologit said:


> Nope. One of our fires took care of any cutting we had planned. There's so much burn salvage timber, some from last year, going into the mills that the price is ridiculously low.


That sucks price isn't horrible over here but it's not as high as any of use would like to see.

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## madhatte

We're doing OK, price-wise, as well. So far. I hear there's a slowdown in the export market, which will most likely push the local market down. Who knows how long the lag time will be, or the lead time after the slowdown eases up.


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## Skeans

In a younger patch about 60 years old lots of 3 40's wood some stretch out to 150' once in a blue 175'.

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## Skeans

madhatte said:


> We're doing OK, price-wise, as well. So far. I hear there's a slowdown in the export market, which will most likely push the local market down. Who knows how long the lag time will be, or the lead time after the slowdown eases up.


Down here they are wanting the wood and sounded like there wouldn't be an increase or decrease in price next month.

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## treeslayer2003

any body here besides tramp use the bugseyes? i took a chip in the left eye this morning......still hurts like hell. i wonder how the bugs effect vision.....


----------



## Skeans

treeslayer2003 said:


> any body here besides tramp use the bugseyes? i took a chip in the left eye this morning......still hurts like hell. i wonder how the bugs effect vision.....


I have before and gave up on them and I hate screens myself.

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## treeslayer2003

well, any glasses i ever tried fogged up to beat hell. its a wonder i still got eyes.


----------



## rwoods

treeslayer2003 said:


> any body here besides tramp use the bugseyes? i took a chip in the left eye this morning......still hurts like hell. i wonder how the bugs effect vision.....



Mike, this firewood cutter likes his. Vision is fine. No fogging and they keep the sweat out of your eyes. You have to train yourself to put them on before your cap or hat. At the end of the day you will look like a raccoon in reverse colors.

Ron


----------



## Skeans

My biggest problem was remembering to shake my head a little head looking up to watch the top and I'd get a ton of dust straight in my eyes.

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## bitzer

Nice stump. Little snipe on the butt? 

I've worn bugzs for four years now and I've told you to get em before Mike. Dam kids don't listen. The only problem I ever have is cutting east at sunrise. Windy days the eyes get dusty no matter what.


----------



## treeslayer2003

rwoods said:


> Mike, this firewood cutter likes his. Vision is fine. No fogging and they keep the sweat out of your eyes. You have to train yourself to put them on before your cap or hat. At the end of the day you will look like a raccoon in reverse colors.
> 
> Ron


hiya Ron! how you and that grandbaby been?


----------



## treeslayer2003

bitzer said:


> Nice stump. Little snipe on the butt?
> 
> I've worn bugzs for four years now and I've told you to get em before Mike. Dam kids don't listen. The only problem I ever have is cutting east at sunrise. Windy days the eyes get dusty no matter what.


yes you did, and Glen did. kid LMAO! i hate falling at sun rise, can't see chit.


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## coltont

Glad it's finally over.

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## Skeans

bitzer said:


> Nice stump. Little snipe on the butt?
> 
> I've worn bugzs for four years now and I've told you to get em before Mike. Dam kids don't listen. The only problem I ever have is cutting east at sunrise. Windy days the eyes get dusty no matter what.


Yeah to get the butt a little closer to the log to try to save it out a little more.

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## rwoods

treeslayer2003 said:


> hiya Ron! how you and that grandbaby been?


Grand baby is great. She'll be one in a month. My daughter is planning to feed the neonatal unit next month after her checkup as a token of our gratitude for helping save her life.

I am doing a little cutting on Saturdays again. 

Hope you're well.

Ron


----------



## treeslayer2003

same ol here Ron. glad to hear the little one is well. and the shoulder is getting better .


----------



## northmanlogging

as for the bugz Had a pair for awhile even wore em for a bit, The glare is something I couldn't get over, but I'm special like that (palinopsia or cerebral polyopia the acid trip without the acid trip), that and they don't do **** for fine dust, so while I had em on it felt like I was wearing googles so I would forget to squint a little bit when making off side underhand face cuts... and gets gobs of fine dust in my eyes anyways.


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## catbuster

Not a fan of Bugz goggles. I'm back to my Flak Jacket XLs I've had for several years now. I don't have fogging issues, but the RH were I'm working is generally a lot higher than it is in the PNW. They don't seal around your face, but do a better job than any other pair of glasses I've had of keeping the dust out of your eyes. And definitely better than the Bugz.


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## Metals406

After Cody T. told me he wore these, I ordered 4 pair.

I loved them on fires, no fog, no stuff in the eye.

I wore the black paint off the screen. No worries, I got some flat model paint (lacquer) -- cleaned the glasses, and painted the screen again. Worked great.
http://www.treestuff.com/store/catalog.asp?item=3518


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## Metals406

I would also try these I reckon.
http://www.treestuff.com/store/catalog.asp?item=15234


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## Skeans

Metals406 said:


> I would also try these I reckon.
> http://www.treestuff.com/store/catalog.asp?item=15234


Those are pretty much bug eye goggles, I'll look and see if I still have a set and send them to you.

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## Metals406

Skeans said:


> Those are pretty much bug eye goggles, I'll look and see if I still have a set and send them to you.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


These look better, and I bet fit nicer.

No worries on sending me any, I still have 4 pair of the others.


----------



## Skeans

Metals406 said:


> These look better, and I bet fit nicer.
> 
> No worries on sending me any, I still have 4 pair of the others.


No problem, I gave up on wearing on anything.

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## Metals406

Oh, that reminds me.

I caught flack on a fire for rubber palmed Atlas gloves. I Googled fir fire rated ones, and found some.

I'll post up a pic, ordered them from Zoro tools.

Rated for 250 F. contact.


----------



## catbuster

Metals406 said:


> Oh, that reminds me.
> 
> I caught flack on a fire for rubber palmed Atlas gloves. I Googled fir fire rated ones, and found some.
> 
> I'll post up a pic, ordered them from Zoro tools.
> 
> Rated for 250 F. contact.



Yeah, they work pretty well, but the old Fireball gloves probably scared all of the people in the fire service off of any glove with rubber, and for good reason. A lot of guys got really badly burned with the rubber gloves. Thankfully, I came in after that era, but my dad and his truck crew on Detroit went with insulated leather gloves early on after a guy on the engine crew they responded with had his glove melted to his hand. 

I switched to wearing Pro-Tech 8 Fusion gloves for work on the line. They're $60/pair, but I can very happily grab things I shouldn't and not get burned. They allow for a pretty good level of dexterity, which is about in line with a regular work glove-a pretty impressive feat for a fire glove. They are also really good for extrication if I don't have those with me.


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## Metals406

catbuster said:


> Yeah, they work pretty well, but the old Fireball gloves probably scared all of the people in the fire service off of any glove with rubber, and for good reason. A lot of guys got really badly burned with the rubber gloves. Thankfully, I came in after that era, but my dad and his truck crew on Detroit went with insulated leather gloves early on after a guy on the engine crew they responded with had his glove melted to his hand.
> 
> I switched to wearing Pro-Tech 8 Fusion gloves for work on the line. They're $60/pair, but I can very happily grab things I shouldn't and not get burned. They allow for a pretty good level of dexterity, which is about in line with a regular work glove-a pretty impressive feat for a fire glove. They are also really good for extrication if I don't have those with me.



I'm gonna look yers up, here's mine.


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## Metals406

I get ya on the burning rubber, but I can't stand to cut in leather (slimy when sweaty and bulky), & if my hands are fully-evolved -- I got other problems to address.

I had some hot embers land on the back of my hands with regular Atlas, and burn a small hole. I'm a welder too, so I'm super used to those.

These fire rated ones should be a treat.


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## Skeans

Atlas gloves and welding or cutting with a torch last all of 5 seconds, I do have one thing to add if there's a west coast fire near Portland or Seattle let it burn right up to them so they understand why clear cutting is good.

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## treeslayer2003

Metals406 said:


> I would also try these I reckon.
> http://www.treestuff.com/store/catalog.asp?item=15234


it says they work like sun glasses as well...........i hadn't thought of that. its pretty dark in the woods here unless i'm doing a clearcut. some are liks a jungle, shades would make ya blind.


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## northmanlogging

I guess they shade a little bit, its weird though, like looking through a waffle.


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## Metals406

treeslayer2003 said:


> it says they work like sun glasses as well...........i hadn't thought of that. its pretty dark in the woods here unless i'm doing a clearcut. some are liks a jungle, shades would make ya blind.


They do shade your eyes from light, but not bad enough in low light to cause issues.

I was used to them after about 10 minutes.

Waaaaaay better than glasses that fog every 3 seconds.


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## SliverPicker

I use mess glasses in the late fall and winter. No fog no matter how sweaty I get or how hard it snows. It only took me about 10 minutes to get used to them as well.


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## Eccentric

These are what I've been using for years. They keep chips and such out of my eyes and don't fog up. Regular safety glasses often fog up for me. Think I'm on my second or third pair in ten years of use. 

They do act a bit like sunglasses, but don't make things too dark, even in lower light. I'm not a faller, so my input may not be what you're looking for though....

http://www.baileysonline.com/Safety-First-Aid/Safety-Glasses/Safety/Wire-Mesh-Safety-Glasses.axd

May try this version next.

http://www.baileysonline.com/Safety...re-Mesh-Safety-Glasses-with-Elastic-Strap.axd


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## catbuster

That's what I like about the Flak Jackets. A lot of sunglasses lose clarity in low light. I never have had a problem with those. I'm obviously not going to use them when I'm working in the middle of the night-but they're still okay to use around dusk or in the morning-or, like you guys have said-deep in the woods


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## Skeans

catbuster said:


> That's what I like about the Flak Jackets. A lot of sunglasses lose clarity in low light. I never have had a problem with those. I'm obviously not going to use them when I'm working in the middle of the night-but they're still okay to use around dusk or in the morning-or, like you guys have said-deep in the woods


I have a set of Flak Jackets for regular sunglasses and there's no way I would of been able to see in the conditions and lighting of a thick thinning. Even bug eye style glasses or goggles don't work because your always bouncing your head up to make sure the top is by passing the trees and making sure it doesn't do anymore damage.

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## twochains

My YouTube channel was deleted by my ex and I lost all 133 falling videos...I'm starting over.


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## bitzer

Nice to see ya Clint!


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## treeslayer2003

1+ and.......congrats are in order, or i herd wrong?


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## Skeans

Looks good

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## northmanlogging

Welcome back,

you feeling alright, all bundled up in that vid there...


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## HuskStihl

northmanlogging said:


> Welcome back,
> 
> you feeling alright, all bundled up in that vid there...


Ya, I didn't recognize you with the shirt and lid! Nice to see you Mang! Hope u'r life has been treating you ok, as hard as you work, god knows you deserve it!


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## Eccentric

I'm still absorbing the fact that Clint used a wedge.....


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## Skeans

A little work from this morning

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## treeslayer2003

Eccentric said:


> I'm still absorbing the fact that Clint used a wedge.....


yes, but........no driver but a chunk o limb. baby steps


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## treeslayer2003

Skeans said:


> View attachment 458241
> View attachment 458242
> View attachment 458243
> 
> A little work from this morning
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


yes sir, dutchmans and sizwheels. been doing alot of both in this stand. they all want the fence line or the smz. so far i only lost one in the smz out of......15 loads i think. i was to late on the wedge on that one, ain't made that mistake no more.
funny thing, i thought these pine being in low ground would hold better, nope, got to do the wheel right or it will break early. no mistaakes,


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## Trx250r180

Skeans said:


> View attachment 458241
> View attachment 458242
> View attachment 458243
> 
> A little work from this morning
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


Looks just like here ,Nice work


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## SliverPicker

...and we where swingin'!


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## twochains

Yes Mike you heard right...and thank you!


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## Skeans

Last stick of the day with a heavy back side towards the haul road.

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## Skeans

treeslayer2003 said:


> yes sir, dutchmans and sizwheels. been doing alot of both in this stand. they all want the fence line or the smz. so far i only lost one in the smz out of......15 loads i think. i was to late on the wedge on that one, ain't made that mistake no more.
> funny thing, i thought these pine being in low ground would hold better, nope, got to do the wheel right or it will break early. no mistaakes,


Mike I carry one 15" wedge just for that reason I can normally pound it in on a set back tree and it doubles as a wedge pounder.

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## treeslayer2003

i carry three 10" triple tapers most of the time. it sat back hard, i barely got the saw out. i just plain made a mistake and picked up sticks as punishment.


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## Skeans

One bonus to the 15" they are narrow and super thin with lots of lift, normally once I get the 15 and get a little lift I'll throw one of my 12" single tapers in.

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## Trx250r180

Skeans said:


> View attachment 458295
> 
> Last stick of the day with a heavy back side towards the haul road.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


nice lookin fir ,bet that is the first sunlight to hit those trees in some time by the looks of the moss wrapped around them .


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## Skeans

Trx250r180 said:


> nice lookin fir ,bet that is the first sunlight to hit those trees in some time by the looks of the moss wrapped around them .


Not as long as you'd think actually, this is that patches 5th thinning at 65 years of age and what I'm doing is pulling stuff up at or past 32" butts for export.

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## treeslayer2003

the rings are really far apart.......the pine i have been cutting, the outer rings are really hard to even see, they kinda tight lol. most are around 80-90 years old near as i can tell. thats old for yellow pine.


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## Skeans

treeslayer2003 said:


> the rings are really far apart.......the pine i have been cutting, the outer rings are really hard to even see, they kinda tight lol. most are around 80-90 years old near as i can tell. thats old for yellow pine.


The main reason I'm in this patch is because of the diameter, much past 32" anymore and they don't pay you much. We have stuff with 6+ rings an inch half way from the heart but I have to watch the diameter on the butts with that stuff as well.

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## Trx250r180

treeslayer2003 said:


> the rings are really far apart.......the pine i have been cutting, the outer rings are really hard to even see, they kinda tight lol. most are around 80-90 years old near as i can tell. thats old for yellow pine.


a lot of my firs have rings like that ,think its is from growing too fast .


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## Skeans

Trx250r180 said:


> a lot of my firs have rings like that ,think its is from growing too fast .


I wouldn't say too fast, it's from thinnings in years past to keep them at a steady rate if you look you'll see it hasn't slowed down at all. That stuff is averaging 125 to 150 ft in height at 32".

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## treeslayer2003

i can see a tight spot in your last pic, bet that was right before the first thinning. its really hard to get landowners here to thin the first few times. they would get big timber faster if they would listen.


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## treeslayer2003

Skeans said:


> The main reason I'm in this patch is because of the diameter, much past 32" anymore and they don't pay you much. We have stuff with 6+ rings an inch half way from the heart but I have to watch the diameter on the butts with that stuff as well.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


they dock you for over size? that sucks. bigger the better i say.......until the equipment won't handle it lol.


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## Skeans

treeslayer2003 said:


> i can see a tight spot in your last pic, bet that was right before the first thinning. its really hard to get landowners here to thin the first few times. they would get big timber faster if they would listen.


Mike this is my personal family land.

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## Skeans

treeslayer2003 said:


> they dock you for over size? that sucks. bigger the better i say.......until the equipment won't handle it lol.


Max standard export Doug fir is 32" butt until you get into temple sorts that go till 46" but the kicker there is you have to have 6 rings half way out from the heart. Domestic they don't hardly pay you for the big wood at all, and the little side 32" on down I have one mill that'll do 32" butts the rest do a max of 22" and rumors of them dropping down to 18".

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## treeslayer2003

18? almost pulpwood. thats ridicules. who knows what bean counter came up with that good idea..........although, i don't get any more for 500ft average than 300. i guess i wouldn't get any more if there was one giant log on the truck.
hell, they might not even want it lol. now, export hard wood is a different story, big logs command the best price there.

you are doing right on your land. mine was clear cut when we got it back in 85. i have poplar about 18-20" now so it will still be awhile yet.


----------



## Skeans

treeslayer2003 said:


> 18? almost pulpwood. thats ridicules. who knows what bean counter came up with that good idea..........although, i don't get any more for 500ft average than 300. i guess i wouldn't get any more if there was one giant log on the truck.
> hell, they might not even want it lol. now, export hard wood is a different story, big logs command the best price there.
> 
> you are doing right on your land. mine was clear cut when we got it back in 85. i have poplar about 18-20" now so it will still be awhile yet.


5" is the minimum top for domestic and 9" for Japanese export and 8" for Chinese export. They are running a 40 year rotation on company ground around here so the wood is smaller so the mills are scaling back on their sizes as well plus you'd be amazed at what they send for export now it's nothing like what we use to send.

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## northmanlogging

The big mills, Weyco, SP, Hampton, pretty much all own their own ground, and therefore are moving to shorter and shorter growth cycles.

They can make boards out of a 22" log and make it profitable, since most everything is automated now.

I'm lucky enough to have a couple mills near here that will still take upwards of a 9', though one closed for good recently. 

Part of the ding for oversize is they know that you are getting massive volume out of it... so yer going to be ok with getting hosed a little bit, that and most of the oversize stuff anymore isn't exactly real pretty wood, lots of sap rings, ugly growths, rot, various forms of damage. Pretty scarce to trip into a bunch of nice fat timber, most of it was cut in the early 90's after the spotted own ****ed everything up, anything left is on FS land and is no touchy.


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## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> The big mills, Weyco, SP, Hampton, pretty much all own their own ground, and therefore are moving to shorter and shorter growth cycles.
> 
> They can make boards out of a 22" log and make it profitable, since most everything is automated now.
> 
> I'm lucky enough to have a couple mills near here that will still take upwards of a 9', though one closed for good recently.
> 
> Part of the ding for oversize is they know that you are getting massive volume out of it... so yer going to be ok with getting hosed a little bit, that and most of the oversize stuff anymore isn't exactly real pretty wood, lots of sap rings, ugly growths, rot, various forms of damage. Pretty scarce to trip into a bunch of nice fat timber, most of it was cut in the early 90's after the spotted own ****ed everything up, anything left is on FS land and is no touchy.


That's why we get those special orders still is there isn't much if it left anymore we still have a bunch of that big long tight growth ring wood. I have one oversized mill left near me that'll do anything you can bring them but they only pay 300 for 40's is what the last price sheet I saw which is more then hosed, and the other is Zippo in Eugene but they weren't accepting any wood right now.

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## northmanlogging

can't like that...


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## Metals406

It's a weird time to be on the timber business.

Sometimes it pays, other times not so much. 

I reckon it's always kind of been that way in dah woods.


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## SliverPicker

There's a mill here can't handle anything over 13".


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## Metals406

SliverPicker said:


> There's a mill here can't handle anything over 13".


Sounds like a Scrag Mill I worked at about 18 years ago.


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## Trx250r180

Metals406 said:


> It's a weird time to be on the timber business.
> 
> Sometimes it pays, other times not so much.
> 
> I reckon it's always kind of been that way in dah woods.


It is like that in most buisiness'


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## 1270d

SliverPicker said:


> There's a mill here can't handle anything over 13".



Your old workplace here is max 18". And they are fussy fussy about specs there.


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## treeslayer2003

i just put a load of trash on the truck.......14 trees lol.
you right Nate, i remember when hardwood saw like this load we wouldn't even cut and the big pine was like gold. meh, thats why god put all kinds of trees here, so one of um will be a hit even if others are not.

if y'all are sawing 13" logs.......pulp must be tiny.


----------



## 1270d

treeslayer2003 said:


> i just put a load of trash on the truck.......14 trees lol.
> you right Nate, i remember when hardwood saw like this load we wouldn't even cut and the big pine was like gold. meh, thats why god put all kinds of trees here, so one of um will be a hit even if others are not.
> 
> if y'all are sawing 13" logs.......pulp must be tiny.



I cut pulp down to 2-3 inch


----------



## Skeans

treeslayer2003 said:


> i just put a load of trash on the truck.......14 trees lol.
> you right Nate, i remember when hardwood saw like this load we wouldn't even cut and the big pine was like gold. meh, thats why god put all kinds of trees here, so one of um will be a hit even if others are not.
> 
> if y'all are sawing 13" logs.......pulp must be tiny.


Anything under 5" here is pulp for me.

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## 1270d

Just for fun, here's our hardwood specs.

Saw logs and veneer 

Diameters down to 10" on saw logs
12 on veneer. No limit on large diameter, our timber isn't big enough to matter.

Lengths 8, 10,12,14,16 ft with 8 inch trim
8 and 10 preferred. 14 and 16 almost never. Occasional 6 and 7 ft prime veneer or figure.

Pulp. 4 to 36 in diameter. Length 6 to 9 ft. 8.5 preferred.

Bolts. 8' 8". 7 to 10 in diameter. Any bigger makes at least #3 log.


----------



## Skeans

1270d said:


> Just for fun, here's our hardwood specs.
> 
> Saw logs and veneer
> 
> Diameters down to 10" on saw logs
> 12 on veneer. No limit on large diameter, our timber isn't big enough to matter.
> 
> Lengths 8, 10,12,14,16 ft with 8 inch trim
> 8 and 10 preferred. 14 and 16 almost never. Occasional 6 and 7 ft prime veneer or figure.
> 
> Pulp. 4 to 36 in diameter. Length 6 to 9 ft. 8.5 preferred.
> 
> Bolts. 8' 8". 7 to 10 in diameter. Any bigger makes at least #3 log.


Are they not chipping your guys pulp?

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## 1270d

It gets chipped at the mill yes.


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## SliverPicker

1270d said:


> Your old workplace here is max 18". And they are fussy fussy about specs there.



When I was there they would take up to 24"


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## SliverPicker

No one here is taking pulp currently. All have closed their door or are under bankruptcy protection.

Pulp here was the rotten and crooked junk. If it was sound enough to make it to the landing they would take it. They made pellets from it. Used to...


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## bitzer

My mill will saw 5 footers (diameter). They just don't get em often.

10" small end. 
8s, 10s, 12s, 14s, 16s, 4-8" trim

Pulp they take 2-20" all 8s. All chipped into napkins and hamburger wrappers.


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## northmanlogging

various mills to choose from, but a general idea...

16-42' in 8' or 10' multiples, most of em hate anything under 30', though they will buy em. (probably average a 32' log myself)

5-8" minimum dia, depending on mill and species (very important to remember who your sending them to)

Peeler fir 26-32' no knots minimum sweep, and tight grain

Peeler alder 12" or better no knots, minimum sweep, 8's or 10's with 6" trim

Pulp,mixed hardwoods (alder,maple,cotton wood, some birch/cherry) Fir and Hemlock for pulp 32"-2" with a 12' minimum and needs to be bucked on both ends

anything over 36" gets a slight ding on price Like 50-100 per 1k


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## treeslayer2003

chip wood......4" little end, 18" big end max. 16' to as long as you will haul. but i won't cut one dam stick for 17 a ton and truck it the 50 miles past two weigh stations. nope.
most every thing else is 10" top. pine 52'+
grade logs......i do it different than you guys. if they are nice sticks my buyer takes tree length or i buck at 42' for easier handling. he will veneer 13" but lets face it, on doyle scale thats a waste of time. if it ain't 20"dbh or better i will leave it to grow or throw it in the sawlog pile. sawlogs are up to 385 now so you have to figure which pile the marginal ones go in to make the most money.


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## treeslayer2003

whew, lots of wedging today. 12 sizwheels and three blocks, some with stacked wedges. the wind was right for the fence line but it still was some hard driving. every one of um wanted that line, some badly. mah arms is tired lol.
one pine i don't think the little deere will pull......maybe it will pull 52' of it?


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## Trx250r180

Pretty bad when one of these passes me .


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## SliverPicker

It happens.


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## Skeans

Had to slip one off the stump a little to make the lay work out.

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## Metals406




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## Skeans

I hope we get a good snow this year the brush so high all you can see is my hard hat wondering around.

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## Trx250r180

Skeans said:


> View attachment 459011
> 
> I hope we get a good snow this year the brush so high all you can see is my hard hat wondering around.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


No kidding ,try finding bar nuts when they fall off in that crap ,and the tree is creeking with your bar stuck in it ,and the powerhead is detached from the bar running in your hands .


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## coltont

661 FTW. captive nuts. Just like me, the warden keeps them captive.

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## Skeans

coltont said:


> 661 FTW. captive nuts. Just like me, the warden keeps them captive.
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


Same with the 562 best feature to be invented why did it take so long to do.

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## coltont

Because just because that's why

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## miller1

I am dropping this old maple , already dropped the huge limb off the facing side, I notched the back then relieved both sides, everything worked well but is there a better way, this was a jred 2186 with a 28" bar



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## northmanlogging

Having not been there, and the vid being a little far away for detail, looks like it was a bit rotten? probably why yer hold wood failed

Also, while a block face is a good thing for scetchy hold wood, the cuts all have to line up, or it creates a week spot in the fibers, and the hinge will always fail at the weakest point, Not to mention a block face it kind of awkward to establish in the best of circumstances, let alone chin high.

WEDGES, WEDGES, WEDGES worst case the bastard falls over backwards on you, rather then going sideways, sideways sucks yes and a wedge wouldn't have done a whole lot of good there, but back falling on top of you sucks a whole bunch more.

The one obvious thing is you cut most if not all of the hold wood off the side facing the camera, maybe definitely should have left a little bit there, that there is probably the leading cause of the tree going sideways.

Biggest thing is making your cuts match, and develop a plan then follow the plan, kinda looked like you where flying by yer pants through most of it?

Finally, if it was ok for the tree to fall in the direction it fell, I probably would have fell it that way from the start, especially considering possible rot. Or left the sucker branch on the facing side and fell it the way you intended, using that big sucker as a counter weight to the rest of the tree, albeit with a much lower stump.


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## northmanlogging

make that a definitely cut the near side hold wood all the way into the center rot...


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## miller1

There was no rot down where I was cutting, my notch as on the back side and the tree fell right where I wanted it to, maybe the video doesn't show up well enough. The tree is completely solid on the lower portion. The tree where I cut is about 34".

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## northmanlogging

Looks like yer notch is on the right? So whats with the big blocky thing, just trying to make sure yer bar fits?


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## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> Looks like yer notch is on the right? So whats with the big blocky thing, just trying to make sure yer bar fits?



I think it's to make sure the bar would reach.

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## Skeans

miller1 said:


> There was no rot down where I was cutting, my notch as on the back side and the tree fell right where I wanted it to, maybe the video doesn't show up well enough. The tree is completely solid on the lower portion. The tree where I cut is about 34".
> 
> Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk


Why didn't you cut it lower if it was solid? You can always walk the bar around the back cut to make sure it's long enough.

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## miller1

I cleared out the right and left side so my bar would reach all the way thru, down lower is real big and knarly, seemed easier to drop it like this. There was no danger of it falling back towards me, the overhead limbs were pulling it the way it went.

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## Skeans

miller1 said:


> I cleared out the right and left side so my bar would reach all the way thru, down lower is real big and knarly, seemed easier to drop it like this. There was no danger of it falling back towards me, the overhead limbs were pulling it the way it went.
> 
> Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk


I run a short bar for out here and to cut oversize you cut your sight cut in first then take your bar nose until you feel the last bit of your cut and line up your cut with your sight line, this way yours saving wood and not having to block or take chucks out. Then your back cut I start on the same side I started my sight cut, cut in slightly and start walking around till you get where you want your hinge, then walk about around well cutting and not leaving posts.

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## northmanlogging

Yep walk it around, use the nose to establish the off side, try to visualize where it would meat up with the full bar depth.

Can be difficult, and sometimes ya end up leaving a little post in the middle, but its totally doable.

the other option is to just dog in and go for it, from one side, establish hold wood, then swap sides and finish the cut.


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## treeslayer2003

miller, next time you make a block face make the vertical bore first and them make your top and bottom cuts meet it. and do it lower.
you should never ever make those side cuts when using a block. not in hard wood. if its leaning hard in the direction of fall, gut out some of the heart instead. hardwood will never chair in the sap wood.
remember, you use a block to make the hinge more flexible. there fore cutting off the sides of it defeat it's purpose.


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## Skeans

treeslayer2003 said:


> miller, next time you make a block face make the vertical bore first and them make your top and bottom cuts meet it. and do it lower.
> you should never ever make those side cuts when using a block. not in hard wood. if its leaning hard in the direction of fall, gut out some of the heart instead. hardwood will never chair in the sap wood.
> remember, you use a block to make the hinge more flexible. there fore cutting off the sides of it defeat it's purpose.


Mike the blocks off the side were so he could make sure the bar could reach, I wondered the same thing I saw the video.

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## treeslayer2003

i done that plenty with a 32 in 40" wood. cut the off side then the near. i dunno about hard maple if thats what that is, but soft maple here will bust if you leave the middle, but not if you leave the sides. provided you matched up your cuts.


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## treeslayer2003

plus he cut off one side of the hinge completely.

dam site actin weird again..........

i'm not picking, trying to help him see what a block is really for.


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## Skeans

treeslayer2003 said:


> plus he cut off one side of the hinge completely.
> 
> dam site actin weird again..........
> 
> i'm not picking, trying to help him see what a block is really for.


Won't say I haven't done that a time or two.

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## treeslayer2003

lol, me too. but not intentional on a block.
little trees, i have to watch what i'm doing.


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## treeslayer2003

hmm.......miller been here since 06.......


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## Skeans

treeslayer2003 said:


> hmm.......miller been here since 06.......


Mike did you ever get a hard hat?

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## treeslayer2003

nope. still not tried a tin lid. i have several plastic jobs including a new in box fancy pants with ear muffs and a screen..........none of that crap fits right. the fancy pants will stay on with the ear muffs down, i just don't like to fall with my ears closed.


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## Skeans

treeslayer2003 said:


> nope. still not tried a tin lid. i have several plastic jobs including a new in box fancy pants with ear muffs and a screen..........none of that crap fits right. the fancy pants will stay on with the ear muffs down, i just don't like to fall with my ears closed.


Never understood how you guys on the R coast can go without a tin hat, now the ear muffs, and screen I can't stand wearing just ear plugs here. If you do a tin hat they do make screens for them as well.

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## Gologit

northmanlogging said:


> Having not been there, and the vid being a little far away for detail, looks like it was a bit rotten? probably why yer hold wood failed
> 
> Also, while a block face is a good thing for scetchy hold wood, the cuts all have to line up, or it creates a week spot in the fibers, and the hinge will always fail at the weakest point, Not to mention a block face it kind of awkward to establish in the best of circumstances, let alone chin high.
> 
> WEDGES, WEDGES, WEDGES worst case the bastard falls over backwards on you, rather then going sideways, sideways sucks yes and a wedge wouldn't have done a whole lot of good there, but back falling on top of you sucks a whole bunch more.
> 
> The one obvious thing is you cut most if not all of the hold wood off the side facing the camera, maybe definitely should have left a little bit there, that there is probably the leading cause of the tree going sideways.
> 
> Biggest thing is making your cuts match, and develop a plan then follow the plan, kinda looked like you where flying by yer pants through most of it?
> 
> Finally, if it was ok for the tree to fall in the direction it fell, I probably would have fell it that way from the start, especially considering possible rot. Or left the sucker branch on the facing side and fell it the way you intended, using that big sucker as a counter weight to the rest of the tree, albeit with a much lower stump.



I didn't see him look up.


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## Skeans

What do you guys think I need to replace my 385xp should I go to the Stihl 661 or a hopped Husky 390xp both are the same price.

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## Trx250r180

Skeans said:


> What do you guys think I need to replace my 385xp should I go to the Stihl 661 or a hopped Husky 390xp both are the same price.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


For our area a ported 461 is plenty of saw ,and a couple pounds lighter to pack around .

You getting this rain ?


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## Skeans

Trx250r180 said:


> For our area a ported 461 is plenty of saw ,and a couple pounds lighter to pack around .
> 
> You getting this rain ?


Yeah it was flat out pouring and blowing all night good combo for blow down. Guess I should of said the 385 has the 390 cylinder worked up so I'm used to a 90cc class with a 32 to 36 all the time and once in a blue a 42 if I don't want to run the 395.

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## Trx250r180

The newer saws if you limb after you fall them ,the rev limiters in the coils are pretty frustrating ,i fixed the 461 with a 460 coil ,the 661 still has the rev limiter ,if someone can figure out how to get past that it would be good i would think ,i will keep my 660 because of that .I tried the huskies ,sold both my 372's and a guy need a saw for work ,so i gave him my 395 i liked the power ,but the chassis i did not care for a few of the things .More of a run what feels best to you type of deal i guess .


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## Skeans

Trx250r180 said:


> The newer saws if you limb after you fall them ,the rev limiters in the coils are pretty frustrating ,i fixed the 461 with a 460 coil ,the 661 still has the rev limiter ,if someone can figure out how to get past that it would be good i would think ,i will keep my 660 because of that .I tried the huskies ,sold both my 372's and a guy need a saw for work ,so i gave him my 395 i liked the power ,but the chassis i did not care for a few of the things .More of a run what feels best to you type of deal i guess .


Now I agree I hate the 372's I have one as a back up the 562 and 385 even hopped up with unlimited coils I hate them. That 385 has been hard to beat it's an 01 it's only had one top end and a crank seal otherwise just maintenance items, I'd keep it if the crank wasn't getting worm on the big end rod bearing. 

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## bitzer

I don't trust that autotune crap. I want to be able to control my fuel on my saw. I bought my 5th 390 a few weeks ago. Dam good saw. Always a 32" bar. Full skip. Big 5 point dawgs from madsens(better than the pro safetys). I've never run a 661 so of course I'm bias. I'm the stihl guys will be along shortly to tell you the 661s walk on water. What pin rim do you run? I run 8.


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## Skeans

bitzer said:


> I don't trust that autotune crap. I want to be able to control my fuel on my saw. I bought my 5th 390 a few weeks ago. Dam good saw. Always a 32" bar. Full skip. Big 5 point dawgs from madsens(better than the pro safetys). I've never run a 661 so of course I'm bias. I'm the stihl guys will be along shortly to tell you the 661s walk on water. What pin rim do you run? I run 8.


8 pin on the 32 and 36 with semi skip always seemed to vibrate less. Dawgs I've always ran the standard west coast dawgs if the bark is too thick I'll saw some off. 

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## hseII

Trx250r180 said:


> The newer saws if you limb after you fall them ,the rev limiters in the coils are pretty frustrating ,i fixed the 461 with a 460 coil ,the 661 still has the rev limiter ,if someone can figure out how to get past that it would be good i would think ,i will keep my 660 because of that .I tried the huskies ,sold both my 372's and a guy need a saw for work ,so i gave him my 395 i liked the power ,but the chassis i did not care for a few of the things .More of a run what feels best to you type of deal i guess .


I just traded my 288 towards a 461R for the same reasons.


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## hseII

Trx250r180 said:


> The newer saws if you limb after you fall them ,the rev limiters in the coils are pretty frustrating ,i fixed the 461 with a 460 coil ,the 661 still has the rev limiter ,if someone can figure out how to get past that it would be good i would think ,i will keep my 660 because of that .I tried the huskies ,sold both my 372's and a guy need a saw for work ,so i gave him my 395 i liked the power ,but the chassis i did not care for a few of the things .More of a run what feels best to you type of deal i guess .





hseII said:


> I just traded my 288 towards a 461R for the same reasons.


Is The 460 coil is a direct fit?...


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## Trx250r180

hseII said:


> Is The 460 coil is a direct fit?...


Yes sir

660 will work also ,has to be off a poly flywheel saw ,the 440 one bolts on and runs ,but is not the right one for the flywheel .


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## HuskStihl

Trx250r180 said:


> The newer saws if you limb after you fall them ,the rev limiters in the coils are pretty frustrating ,i fixed the 461 with a 460 coil ,the 661 still has the rev limiter ,if someone can figure out how to get past that it would be good i would think ,i will keep my 660 because of that .I tried the huskies ,sold both my 372's and a guy need a saw for work ,so i gave him my 395 i liked the power ,but the chassis i did not care for a few of the things .More of a run what feels best to you type of deal i guess .





hseII said:


> I just traded my 288 towards a 461R for the same reasons.


You guys need to go back to the moped/PT Cruiser thread and leave the grown-ups alone


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## HuskStihl

If'n you are used to/like the 385/390 feel, stay with it. Terry Landrum sells 'em pre-ported for a good price. The 461 is snappy like the quad port huskies. Never run a 661, but I like saws I can fix if'n they break


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## HuskStihl

miller1 said:


> I am dropping this old maple , already dropped the huge limb off the facing side, I notched the back then relieved both sides, everything worked well but is there a better way, this was a jred 2186 with a 28" bar
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk



The combination of the camera angle and the "fake" block face made that about the most confusing falling video I've ever seen.


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## hseII

HuskStihl said:


> You guys need to go back to the moped/PT Cruiser thread and leave the grown-ups alone


BAHAHAHAHA. 

Serious Question,
Does your wife start yours saws at the house in the morning, or is your operation more of a Husband with Wife team, where you go to work with her? [emoji8][emoji8]


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## HuskStihl

hseII said:


> BAHAHAHAHA.
> 
> Serious Question,
> Does your wife start yours saws at the house in the morning, or is your operation more of a Husband with Wife team, where you go to work with her? [emoji8][emoji8]


I've added external fuel tanks and they stay permanently running!


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## Skeans

HuskStihl said:


> If'n you are used to/like the 385/390 feel, stay with it. Terry Landrum sells 'em pre-ported for a good price. The 461 is snappy like the quad port huskies. Never run a 661, but I like saws I can fix if'n they break


If I do get one of their I'll go up to Madsen's it's only an hour from my place and from what I've seen they have the best price. Then if there is issues it's still local same with my local two dealers for both Stihl and Husky. The 390 set up ported powerhead was 1k same with a 661 stock.

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## coltont

I run an 8 on my 661. I like it. Few more miles to the gallon than the 660.

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## treeslayer2003

Skeans i run a 32 on a 461, i love it. it has more grunt than you'd expect from 77cc but i don't think it would be happy with more than that.
there is alot of truth to what John said, husky is a fine saw, my hands just a stihl better.
i also prefer to adjust my own carb. if stihl made a 90cc just like the 461 i would order three of them tomorrow.


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## Skeans

treeslayer2003 said:


> Skeans i run a 32 on a 461, i love it. it has more grunt than you'd expect from 77cc but i don't think it would be happy with more than that.
> there is alot of truth to what John said, husky is a fine saw, my hands just a stihl better.
> i also prefer to adjust my own carb. if stihl made a 90cc just like the 461 i would order three of them tomorrow.


I have the 372xpw that are 75cc and they are fine and dandy even with the unlimited coils and a little work I'll grab that 562 it'll cut the same wood at about the same rate. I've ran a 066 and a 660 and hated both because of the vibrations through the mounts and filtration really was lacking I was hoping to hear the 661 was a step above but after talking to a few guys I cut with here and there they were burning them down so I'm going back to a husky.

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## mdavlee

661 filtration isn't any better. You can gut the filter and use it as a cage for the max flow filters. So far the coil hasn't been swapped besides some guy on Facebook saying he did it.


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## Skeans

treeslayer2003 said:


> Skeans i run a 32 on a 461, i love it. it has more grunt than you'd expect from 77cc but i don't think it would be happy with more than that.
> there is alot of truth to what John said, husky is a fine saw, my hands just a stihl better.
> i also prefer to adjust my own carb. if stihl made a 90cc just like the 461 i would order three of them tomorrow.


Mike I'll go down and look tonight at what I have for some chains I can set up to send your way, all rakers are set at .25 though and I'll toss them on the grinder to make sure they are sharp as well.

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## coltont

I just don't like the 461. They cut good but they just don't fit your hands like 66chassis saw.

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## hseII

coltont said:


> I just don't like the 461. They cut good but they just don't fit your hands like 66chassis saw.
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


I hope your findings don't mirror mine.


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## treeslayer2003

colton i have a weber full wrap on mine and on the 660, so it really just feels lighter is all.
what you mean Heath?


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## treeslayer2003

25 is fine in pine. time i file a few times they will be 20 lol. lemme know what ya find. i have a semi skip here if you want it, i just don't like it.


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## Skeans

treeslayer2003 said:


> 25 is fine in pine. time i file a few times they will be 20 lol. lemme know what ya find. i have a semi skip here if you want it, i just don't like it.


I'll throw it on the grinder and I'm sure you won't want them at 20 anymore Mike they are more aggressive then a factory chain set at 25. Semi skip is normally a bit faster and smoother I've noticed and it doesn't take as long to grind as full comp. If it's too aggressive Mike let me know.

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## bitzer

Does square get grabby? I run 30 on my rakers. The saw shop gave me two loops of semi-skip a few years ago. I couldn't chase my backcuts like I could with the full skip. It wasn't as bad as full comp tho.


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## treeslayer2003

yes it can be grabby. more so in non fibrous timber like oak. but i have found ways to make it smooth as silk..........020 rakers, but it has to be sharp, the corner must be near perfectly aligned, no beak or it will be dull in seconds. also i found that a side plate near even with the top plate makes for a smooth cut. now in pine, a slight forward lean is faster.......more fibrous wood.


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## Trx250r180

bitzer said:


> Does square get grabby? I run 30 on my rakers. The saw shop gave me two loops of semi-skip a few years ago. I couldn't chase my backcuts like I could with the full skip. It wasn't as bad as full comp tho.


30 works on round ok but 25 on square seems to be smooth for boring ,when i go back to round now,it all feels grebby to me


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## treeslayer2003

agreed, i have a roll of nos windsor round skip, its great chain but not nearly as smooth as square.


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## treeslayer2003

oh, i cut a 4' yard tree the other day for a friend. it was linden/basswood, two inch chips flying out lol. they thought my saw was magic lol.


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## hseII

Trx250r180 said:


> 30 works on round ok but 25 on square seems to be smooth for boring ,when i go back to round now,it all feels grebby to me


Square or GTFO.


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## Skeans

Any skip isn't as smooth as a full comp chain or às fast I just hate how long it takes to grind. Semi is a compromise between the a little more vibration a little harder to bore with too, then full skip is only good personally on a true long bar where you need the chips to clean out because you're running a small powerhead like a 60 on a 395.

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## bitzer

Basswood is fun. I've cut entire jobs of them. Bushels up quick. I've got the itch to get a grinder now. Guna have wait til freeze up and steady work tho.


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## bitzer

Skeans said:


> Any skip isn't as smooth as a full comp chain or às fast I just hate how long it takes to grind. Semi is a compromise between the a little more vibration a little harder to bore with too, then full skip is only good personally on a true long bar where you need the chips to clean out because you're running a small powerhead like a 60 on a 395.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


Hardwood seems to be a different story. Full comp will bind and you'll end up splittin yer tree out chasin the back. Believe me I tried full comp for several months on the 32". Semi wasn't a night and day difference either. Our trees are shorter, more top weighted, and fall faster. I really don't bore either. Just the guts from the face.


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## treeslayer2003

yep, and i don't think its the hardness either, its about the fiber. poplar ain't all that hard but its a smooth cut across the grain, not at all like pine which will show tiny hairs after the cut.


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## hseII

bitzer said:


> Hardwood seems to be a different story. Full comp will bind and you'll end up splittin yer tree out chasin the back. Believe me I tried full comp for several months on the 32". Semi wasn't a night and day difference either. Our trees are shorter, more top weighted, and fall faster. I really don't bore either. Just the guts from the face.


Skip Square is Great on 28" and up Hardwoods. 

I've got Full Comp Square that's Sharp as Chit, and it does a good Job, but it takes forever to sharpen.


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## Skeans

bitzer said:


> Hardwood seems to be a different story. Full comp will bind and you'll end up splittin yer tree out chasin the back. Believe me I tried full comp for several months on the 32". Semi wasn't a night and day difference either. Our trees are shorter, more top weighted, and fall faster. I really don't bore either. Just the guts from the face.


Are you running 32" 63 3/8? You should be able to chase easily with comp or semi skip because I bore and do run straight out the back in some hardwoods alder maple and the little oak that is around here.

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## treeslayer2003

i think it depends where you are to, timber that grew fast is just easier to cut. i have been in poplar stands where they cut like oak at the stump. they were old and grew slow.


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## Skeans

New vs ground

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## Trx250r180

Skeans said:


> New vs ground
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


Top one looks either dirt on the edge or the cutter or dull to me ?,the corner looks spooned over ?
Bottom one is shallower than i grind ,but looks like it will last good that way .


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## Skeans

Trx250r180 said:


> Top one looks either dirt on the edge or the cutter or dull to me ?,the corner looks spooned over ?
> Bottom one is shallower than i grind ,but looks like it will last good that way .


It was a used one it was just to give the east coast guys an idea. It's a little on the small side most of the time I keep my wheel big enough that I nip the tie straps a touch.

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## Metals406

bitzer said:


> Does square get grabby? I run 30 on my rakers. The saw shop gave me two loops of semi-skip a few years ago. I couldn't chase my backcuts like I could with the full skip. It wasn't as bad as full comp tho.


The more angle on the side-plate, the grabber it can get IMO.

90 degree side plate is smooth as silk. 80 degrees makes a perfect marriage of feed and smoothness.


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## Trx250r180

Skeans said:


> It was a used one it was just to give the east coast guys an idea. It's a little on the small side most of the time I keep my wheel big enough that I nip the tie straps a touch.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


Here is a 3/8 semi skip ,looks like has been used in the pic ,but shows about the angles i am running ,seems to self feed ok 



I have a bunch of .404 chains i got from redbull660 that were run for a couple cuts each for oil tests he is doing ,so i have pretty much rotated out most of my 3/8 now and running .404 full skip for cutting ,and full comp for milling .the .404 has a sprocket size between 7 and 8 for 3/8 ,seems to help chain speed a little .,the main thing i like about .404 is it is tougher ,if i hit the ground ,it does not take the outer corner out easy like 3/8 does .


wheel angles


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## Metals406

Trx250r180 said:


> Here is a 3/8 semi skip ,looks like has been used in the pic ,but shows about the angles i am running ,seems to self feed ok View attachment 462200
> View attachment 462201
> View attachment 462203
> 
> I have a bunch of .404 chains i got from redbull660 that were run for a couple cuts each for oil tests he is doing ,so i have pretty much rotated out most of my 3/8 now and running .404 full skip for cutting ,and full comp for milling .the .404 has a sprocket size between 7 and 8 for 3/8 ,seems to help chain speed a little .,the main thing i like about .404 is it is tougher ,if i hit the ground ,it does not take the outer corner out easy like 3/8 does .
> 
> 
> wheel angles View attachment 462210
> View attachment 462209


Just by eyeing your pics, looks like you and I run the same angles.


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## Metals406

Skeans said:


> It was a used one it was just to give the east coast guys an idea. It's a little on the small side most of the time I keep my wheel big enough that I nip the tie straps a touch.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


Your angles I've run before, more robust fer sure.


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## Trx250r180

Metals406 said:


> Just by eyeing your pics, looks like you and I run the same angles.


Different chains turn out a little different sometimes for me ,sometimes the side is more up and down ,but generally they come out close to those pics 
Here is one i found the side plate is more up and down for some reason .seemed a little less grabby ,maybe because of no hook on the side .


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## Metals406

Mine vary as well, a little.

90 degree side plate will pull ribbons as well as 80 -- it just doesn't self feed as hard.


----------



## Skeans

A little steeper on the slide then what I normally run.

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## Metals406

Side plate looks good, bet you'll like it.


----------



## Skeans

Metals406 said:


> Side plate looks good, bet you'll like it.


I ran them like that before and didn't care for it they chattered in the cut the wheel angles are 10 degrees and 60 degrees. Where as my normal wheel setting are 25 and 65.

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## Metals406

Skeans said:


> I ran them like that before and didn't care for it they chattered in the cut the wheel angles are 10 degrees and 60 degrees. Where as my normal wheel setting are 25 and 65.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


Run what you prefer, that is what I do sir. 

The worst square still cuts better than round chain.


----------



## Skeans

Metals406 said:


> Run what you prefer, that is what I do sir.
> 
> The worst square still cuts better than round chain.


Yes it does and it doesn't hurt your hands at the end of the day.

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## bitzer

Skeans said:


> Are you running 32" 63 3/8? You should be able to chase easily with comp or semi skip because I bore and do run straight out the back in some hardwoods alder maple and the little oak that is around here.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


Yep. Full comp binds up when really hoggin on it. I don't really bore anything. If I think I can't keep up with the backcut I do a T style coos bay.


----------



## treeslayer2003

Metals406 said:


> The more angle on the side-plate, the grabber it can get IMO.
> 
> 90 degree side plate is smooth as silk. 80 degrees makes a perfect marriage of feed and smoothness.


i run the same as you and Brian. last year when i got in that block of really big poplar i started using a 90 degree side plate, it really made a big difference. i do agree that 80 makes a real nice all around chain.
i bet skeans chain would be great in pine.
i also like a very clean gullet, i cut them about every three filings. of course, i do it all with a file. must have on glasses and must watch what i'm doing. if i get it right with no beak, it will last a long time.


----------



## Skeans

treeslayer2003 said:


> i run the same as you and Brian. last year when i got in that block of really big poplar i started using a 90 degree side plate, it really made a big difference. i do agree that 80 makes a real nice all around chain.
> i bet skeans chain would be great in pine.
> i also like a very clean gullet, i cut them about every three filings. of course, i do it all with a file. must have on glasses and must watch what i'm doing. if i get it right with no beak, it will last a long time.


If you look at the way my grinder is set up you can grind the gullets with the last picture I put up the slide has an axis. The way I normally do my chains is what I use in hardwoods as well especially if clear cutting. Like I did say if I adjust it like I'm doing gullets I get a lot of chatter through the saw and it's not smooth Mike.

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## treeslayer2003

i noticed it looks like you get alot of the gullet while grinding.


----------



## Skeans

treeslayer2003 said:


> i noticed it looks like you get alot of the gullet while grinding.


With the way it's set now no its not, if I rotate the head back to normal I actually can take the gullet back a long ways.

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## northmanlogging

from today, took about an hour to get it down, ran out of wedges, ran out of gas, had to run and yak at the self loader jockey... worth it though, 107' of logs, 38" on the stump, 137' tall ish... first pic is from the top looking back.


----------



## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> from today, took about an hour to get it down, ran out of wedges, ran out of gas, had to run and yak at the self loader jockey... worth it though, 107' of logs, 38" on the stump, 137' tall ish... first pic is from the top looking back.
> 
> View attachment 462821
> View attachment 462822
> View attachment 462823


Looks good a 42? I was told we're going to run back into an older stand of 200' tall stuff again should be interesting.

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## northmanlogging

just a wee 32, 

You need a hand on that 200' stuff, I'm only 3 hrs away...


----------



## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> just a wee 32,
> 
> You need a hand on that 200' stuff, I'm only 3 hrs away...


This is all my personal family wood, we only have two other cutters come in and they call me for stretching out pulls for them.

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## northmanlogging

just like falling big trees, i get a lot of scrubby stuff, but the bigguns are always fun.


----------



## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> just like falling big trees, i get a lot of scrubby stuff, but the bigguns are always fun.


All this stuff was thinned as poles, I love dropping that big timber and showing my dad up.

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## bitzer

Matt- good lookin butt. I see a jack in yer future.

C an't even imagine double the height of my tallest trees.


----------



## northmanlogging

Have 2 jacks but no jack handles... stupid bent tailgates


----------



## treeslayer2003

northmanlogging said:


> Have 2 jacks but no jack handles... stupid bent tailgates


lol


----------



## bitzer

northmanlogging said:


> Have 2 jacks but no jack handles... stupid bent tailgates


Come on yer a metal man! Fab somethin! Especially with the ones you seem to have to lift.


----------



## northmanlogging

Yes, I could, if i had time... 

Might have to do that for the next fatty that needs to come down anyway, some jerk brushed the side of it and now its limb heavy towards a house... 

(that jerk would be me)


----------



## dhskier2

Northman- the windstorm hit your area? Something like that mean more work for you, or just the tree service folks?


----------



## northmanlogging

usually yes. Only got a couple calls on this last one

we got a storm back in sept/oct? that took down a whole mess of trees, that one seems to have got me busy for some time.

The tree service/arborist folks are cleaning out lots of wallets right now... 

What I do is a little different, but folks don't like watching half their trees fall down every fall/winter, so I get lots of calls from here until feburary.

On a somewhat political front some meat head is telling folks that timber prices are way down right not... they are not... so folks are a little trigger shy about getting logging done.... thanks facebook...


----------



## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> usually yes. Only got a couple calls on this last one
> 
> we got a storm back in sept/oct? that took down a whole mess of trees, that one seems to have got me busy for some time.
> 
> The tree service/arborist folks are cleaning out lots of wallets right now...
> 
> What I do is a little different, but folks don't like watching half their trees fall down every fall/winter, so I get lots of calls from here until feburary.
> 
> On a somewhat political front some meat head is telling folks that timber prices are way down right not... they are not... so folks are a little trigger shy about getting logging done.... thanks facebook...


They're never as high as any of us would like to see that's for sure though.

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## chucker

northmanlogging said:


> usually yes. Only got a couple calls on this last one
> 
> we got a storm back in sept/oct? that took down a whole mess of trees, that one seems to have got me busy for some time.
> 
> The tree service/arborist folks are cleaning out lots of wallets right now...
> 
> What I do is a little different, but folks don't like watching half their trees fall down every fall/winter, so I get lots of calls from here until feburary.
> 
> On a somewhat political front some meat head is telling folks that timber prices are way down right not... they are not... so folks are a little trigger shy about getting logging done.... thanks facebook...


same story that's going on here as well ! the local stock pile that was piled for better sale's price has recently vacated from full to empty! so my thinking is if it's empty why would the price be down ? supply and demand is the key factor and high prices is the reason for semi's flowing out of the yard more than the supply! everyone has wood for ????? $$$$$$$$$$$$


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## treeslayer2003

northmanlogging said:


> usually yes. Only got a couple calls on this last one
> 
> we got a storm back in sept/oct? that took down a whole mess of trees, that one seems to have got me busy for some time.
> 
> The tree service/arborist folks are cleaning out lots of wallets right now...
> 
> What I do is a little different, but folks don't like watching half their trees fall down every fall/winter, so I get lots of calls from here until feburary.
> 
> On a somewhat political front some meat head is telling folks that timber prices are way down right not... they are not... so folks are a little trigger shy about getting logging done.... thanks facebook...


gawd i hate that, always some dumbass that don't know what they talking about. it is surprising how fast that spreads to.


----------



## BGE541

Skeans said:


> What do you guys think I need to replace my 385xp should I go to the Stihl 661 or a hopped Husky 390xp both are the same price.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk



I have a ported 385 and love it, Id go ported 390 anyday, pulls a 32" like nothing.


----------



## BGE541

If you guys in the PNW/Western Washington need a hand let me know.

Ill be willing to trade my time for sharpening etc.... if you don't feel like my work ethic and output is reasonable, then you owe me nothing... hows that for a deal?

Did I mention I love running a saw?


----------



## Skeans

Been too windy the last few days so I've been cheating on my saw using the harvester cutting export and setting up turns for the cat.

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## rwoods

Nice view out your living room window there.  Ron


----------



## GilksTreeFelling

Been working away since dawn this morning. Cleaning up some trees the wind knocked over the past few weeks leaving them hung up in other trees, as well as dropping some hardwood for next year's firewood stash.







Went to drop a spruce with an 18" dia stump two hits on my brand new 8" wedge and kersnap. Not a happy camper LOL





Oh well got a lot of wood cleaned up and now coffee time before going to block and split the load of hard wood lol

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## Skeans

nscoyote said:


> Been working away since dawn this morning. Cleaning up some trees the wind knocked over the past few weeks leaving them hung up in other trees, as well as dropping some hardwood for next year's firewood stash.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Went to drop a spruce with an 18" dia stump two hits on my brand new 8" wedge and kersnap. Not a happy camper LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh well got a lot of wood cleaned up and now coffee time before going to block and split the load of hard wood lol
> 
> Sent from my Z30 using Tapatalk


What are you using for beating wedges?

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## bitzer

If yer using that maul i'm not surprised.


----------



## coltont

The only reason it broke is because you didn't hit it square.

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## Trx250r180

Some pics of my employees relatives he brought in from back in the day .


----------



## Skeans

Trx250r180 said:


> Some pics of my employees relatives he brought in from back in the day .View attachment 467088
> View attachment 467089
> View attachment 467090
> View attachment 467091


Back when men were real men, cool pictures. 

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## 1270d

Can't say I have ever noticed a chain drive truck before. Cool!


----------



## Skeans

coltont said:


> The only reason it broke is because you didn't hit it square.
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


Not always, you beat against wins it's not hard to bust one off.

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## Trx250r180

I think wages were 50 cents to a dollar a day back then ,but could buy land for 2 dollars an acre to homestead from what i have been told .


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## coltont

Skeans said:


> Not always, you beat against wins it's not hard to bust one off.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


I know it's not hard to break one. Done it plenty of times. It's usually a result of being in an awkward spot driving it with lots of force. 

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## bitzer

Very cool pictures!

With the size of the maul its easy to hit a little off center and snap it off. Thin wedges usually get it pretty quickly too. I've snapped off my share.


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## coltont

K and H for the win

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## Metals406

I really like the pink wedges from Murdock's.


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## Skeans

I really scotsco 12's and 10's 

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## bitzer

The blue wedges from madsens can really take a beating kind of like a K&H. I know they are made by double taper but they seem tuffer then the "double taper" yellow and oranges.


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## northmanlogging

The 10" douple taper is sweet for set back trees, I usually nip the ends off before they ever break, don't like their yellow ones though, K+H for everything else, though I think there is still one 14" scotsco floating around in the crummy, only use it in panic situations though.


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## Skeans

bitzer said:


> The blue wedges from madsens can really take a beating kind of like a K&H. I know they are made by double taper but they seem tuffer then the "double taper" yellow and oranges.


The double tapers I always break off and if you have to stack them they are worthless.

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## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> The 10" douple taper is sweet for set back trees, I usually nip the ends off before they ever break, don't like their yellow ones though, K+H for everything else, though I think there is still one 14" scotsco floating around in the crummy, only use it in panic situations though.


I keep 2 of those 15" wedges around for beating or when I know I'm going to be jacking wood especially on stuff that's leaning back they have the best taper.

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## Woos31

Skeans said:


> View attachment 466551
> View attachment 466552
> View attachment 466553
> 
> Been too windy the last few days so I've been cheating on my saw using the harvester cutting export and setting up turns for the cat.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


Careful there Skeans, you be puttin yerself outta cuttin with that lol. But I also know a guy needs the paycheck for his self too. Looks good and safe cuttin boss


----------



## Skeans

Woos31 said:


> Careful there Skeans, you be puttin yerself outta cuttin with that lol. But I also know a guy needs the paycheck for his self too. Looks good and safe cuttin boss


Lol this is my own equipment and wood.

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## Gologit

Another vote for K&H wedges. They seemed to hold up better than anything else.


----------



## GilksTreeFelling

Any one know of a Canadian supplier for k&h? 

Sent from my Z30 using Tapatalk


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## bitzer

Skeans said:


> The double tapers I always break off and if you have to stack them they are worthless.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


Yep ive had em bend in all kinds of wacky 'S' shapes.


----------



## HuskStihl

Hard Heads. They don't squish up and drive better. They also keep you from hitting them with the saw, cause you won't be able to afford a new one!


----------



## mdavlee

I've still not bought any hard heads. Still using what K&H I have and a dozen or two of the Madsens.


----------



## madhatte

I've busted the metal insert off of the hard heads every time I've had one. Blue Madsen's or K&H for me every time. I did get a case of the yellow Oregon ones with the scallops through GSA this fall but I haven't used any yet. I didn't choose them that way; that's just what showed up.


----------



## Trx250r180

Seems like i always get colored wood chips when cutting and wedging .


----------



## hseII

I've got a few of the Woodland Pro that Baileys sells, a couple Double Tappers, and the Stackable Black Bears: they all cut the same. [emoji23][emoji23]


----------



## coltont

HuskStihl said:


> Hard Heads. They don't squish up and drive better. They also keep you from hitting them with the saw, cause you won't be able to afford a new one!


Good luck double stacking

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## HuskStihl

madhatte said:


> I've busted the metal insert off of the hard heads every time I've had one. Blue Madsen's or K&H for me every time. I did get a case of the yellow Oregon ones with the scallops through GSA this fall but I haven't used any yet. I didn't choose them that way; that's just what showed up.


I've never had that happen, and I'm usually hitting 'em with the 6 lb "stumpy sledge"


coltont said:


> Good luck double stacking
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


If'n I put some dirt between them they'll do OK. Not great, but ok.


----------



## Woos31

Skeans said:


> Lol this is my own equipment and wood.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


Haha good deal man! Just had to send a zinger by ya, I've known a lot of guys that considered fight'n words as processor and feller buncher lol. So ya know, just had to be a pain in the a$$ for a minute so continue on with your shade reduction.......I'll role up my bag of peanuts and sit back down in the gallery. Safe cuttin and safe processin boss


----------



## madhatte

HuskStihl said:


> I've never had that happen, and I'm usually hitting 'em with the 6 lb "stumpy sledge"



We-e-e-e-l-l-lllll... I'm not the most accurate of wedge-whackers, if you catch my drift.


----------



## HuskStihl

madhatte said:


> We-e-e-e-l-l-lllll... I'm not the most accurate of wedge-whackers, if you catch my drift.


Best wedge basher I've seen in vids on here is the ol' Tramp. I'm pretty good righty, but Glen is dead-on from both sides


----------



## bitzer

The yellow oregons with the teeth don't drive straight and stacking them is worse. The plastic is solid tho. The woodland pro wedges are about middle of the road. With the hard heads I'm thinking if I need to hit it that hard maybe i shud be doin somethin else with the tree. Havent tried the stackable ones. The best lift i've ever gotten out of a wedge is the double taper 15"er. Still have it but its maybe 13 inches now. Likes to fall out of the pouch as well. Most wedges can get you by for a while if you need a clean leading edge for opening.


----------



## HuskStihl

A 12" hard head and a cool neon green one. Don't remember the brand. You don't have to hit the hard heads as hard to get the same results. Falling finesse has never been my strong suit tho.


----------



## treeslayer2003

hmm.......well i'm hard on wedges. so far the K&H triple taper is what i get the best life out of. seems like if i am wedging, i will have to drive hard so i like the extra lift.


----------



## madhatte

bitzer said:


> The yellow oregons with the teeth don't drive straight and stacking them is worse.



Solid bit of advice. I'll be looking out for that as we use up the case of them.



HuskStihl said:


> A 12" hard head and a cool neon green one. Don't remember the brand.



You're a way better shot than I am! Even with a clean poll on a 4 LB axe I hit way wonkier than that.


----------



## northmanlogging

Timber... ha...

Anyway, for the blue double tapers if ya toss a little dirt on em and use a different type of wedge under it they stack a little better.


----------



## rwoods

For any who thinks that he is the king of bad aim, I submit my qualifications:




It took more than a few mis-strikes to make. Ron


----------



## Gypo Logger

A dutchman always makes for tough wedging, as does a backcut lower than the undercut.
I have both winter wedges and summer wedges. The winter wedges have raised nubs to keep them from popping out in frozen wood. Sometimes if I run out of a driven wedge, I just refall the tilted tree.
I deplore mushrooming my wedges. Lol


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## northmanlogging

stumbled on to some new Hotsaws101 falling vids... jack is still at it.


----------



## GilksTreeFelling

Started the morning playing dominos to drop a birch without hitting a power line.






Then got into some gnarly softwood and pinched the saw when the log shifted.
Here's my way of unpinching a saw.












Sent from my Z30 using Tapatalk


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## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> stumbled on to some new Hotsaws101 falling vids... jack is still at it.


His weather is look a lot better then ours.

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## Skeans

Needed a boat to get into the job this morning. 


The county ditch blew all to hell yesterday evening and tried to take my driveway with it.

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## coltont

Hard maple all day today.

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----------



## chucker

Skeans said:


> View attachment 468345
> 
> Needed a boat to get into the job this morning.
> View attachment 468347
> 
> The county ditch blew all to hell yesterday evening and tried to take my driveway with it.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


? are the salmon running up them streams yet? looks like you wont need to travel far for a fresh fish fry if your lucky..


----------



## bitzer

coltont said:


> Hard maple all day today.
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


I wonder if its as hard on the stump as it is here. I like cuttin it, but man they can be like a rock. Buckin is fine tho.


----------



## bitzer

nscoyote said:


> Started the morning playing dominos to drop a birch without hitting a power line.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then got into some gnarly softwood and pinched the saw when the log shifted.
> Here's my way of unpinching a saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Z30 using Tapatalk


Pinched er balls deep huh?


----------



## bitzer

Skeans said:


> View attachment 468345
> 
> Needed a boat to get into the job this morning.
> View attachment 468347
> 
> The county ditch blew all to hell yesterday evening and tried to take my driveway with it.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


Heard abt you guys on the radio today. You better get them dam garbage cans tucked in!


----------



## coltont

bitzer said:


> I wonder if its as hard on the stump as it is here. I like cuttin it, but man they can be like a rock. Buckin is fine tho.


Yea its a chattering prick to cut. It listens pretty good though as long as your not to low on the stump where the grain gets wavy. 

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## GilksTreeFelling

bitzer said:


> Pinched er balls deep huh?


Ya was walking it around usually I'll get it up like that and then work it down through.


Sent from my Z30 using Tapatalk


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## Skeans

Fastest way to put a good day into a bad one blow up a good falling saw bucking and bumping knots.

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## northmanlogging

Skeans said:


> Fastest way to put a good day into a bad one blow up a good falling saw bucking and bumping knots.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk



What flavor of saw and how old... Might wan't to rebuild it if you plan on junking it.


----------



## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> What flavor of saw and how old... Might wan't to rebuild it if you plan on junking it.


Husky 385 all of 15 years old top end is so so but the crank bearings finally gave out on it.

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## GilksTreeFelling

A little wood road clean up before the winter storms start and knock the trees into the power lines along the road. Took yesterday off as the wind was to high for cutting alone so decided to spend some time with my daughter and take her to get her ears pierced

Sent from my Z30 using Tapatalk


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## bitzer

Some pics from a job this summer. This 80 acres was cut over hard two years ago by a previous landowner. The current landowner decieded to cut the rest, save the hickory and put beef cattle in. Prior to me showing up all old stumps and slash were pulled, piled, and burned.

Early morning landing.




These guys were nuts and burned on some seriously windy days. They seemed to have it under control tho. Nothin got hurt. 




Nice Hickory save tree. Not sure how long it will stay upright having grown up in the woods. The landowner was made aware of that fact several times. 





One of four landings. The knee to waist high grass got old when cutting. Skidding was like in a park tho!




One of the bigger red oaks. There was decent timber on this job. I would have liked to have seen it before it was hammered the first time.


----------



## bitzer

Just some random stuff. I had to get out of this woods as soon as it was dry due to a hunting stipulation in the contract. Everything had to hit the ground without help from the machine.





Had to buck the back one off to get it to go. The near and under side were rotten so I had to buck the far side to get it to go.






Stump from the vertical tree. 






Hard pulled red oak.



Cleaned up pretty nice. I need to get a camera. This phone sucks.


----------



## bitzer

Some from last week. Lots of clean tall ash in this woods. I've been wanting to cut this tree for years. Its in a park near the house. too bad it didn't have another 50 years to grow. EAB.




Laid out. 6 10ftrs. Not my tallest, but no limbs til the top. 



The red oak in the distance and the ash were leaned hard at each other and tangled up. I knew the ash would swing out and pull the oak with it. Got the oak cut up tight just before she wanted to pop, then cut the ash from the Dutchman side towards the pull side. 




Pulled more out of the ash than I wanted but it cleaned up ok.





Springpole! Normally I would have cut this out first, but in the park they want to save as much as possible


----------



## HuskStihl

Cool root pullin Bitz! Thx for the pics


----------



## bitzer

HuskStihl said:


> Cool root pullin Bitz! Thx for the pics


Thank you sir! I have all kinds of stump pics. Don't want to bore you guys too much.


----------



## HuskStihl

bitzer said:


> Thank you sir! I have all kinds of stump pics. Don't want to bore you guys too much.


Well, you know how much I enjoy trying to decipher a good Bitzer stump, so post away!


----------



## KiwiBro

HuskStihl said:


> Well, you know how much I enjoy trying to decipher a good Bitzer stump, so post away!


+1, please.


----------



## treeslayer2003

Bitz.........it may sound strange, but i learn alot from your stumps lol. post away.

i will have a few ash in the upcoming job, guess i'll figure out how to face cut them lol. most don't have to turn much to stay out the smz.


----------



## hseII

bitzer said:


> Thank you sir! I have all kinds of stump pics. Don't want to bore you guys too much.


No Bore Here: please Continue to Share.


----------



## bitzer

Now I just need the time! Startin a clearcut today. Was supposed to be break up work but 40s and muck during the day don't fly with the landowners around here. I need it to get cold. Really nothin on the horizon either.


----------



## bitzer

HuskStihl said:


> Well, you know how much I enjoy trying to decipher a good Bitzer stump, so post away!


Ok pop quiz! On the oak pulled stump how did I do my back cut? I always like figuring out other people's stumps. Even old rotten ones I find in the woods.


----------



## Skeans

bitzer said:


> Now I just need the time! Startin a clearcut today. Was supposed to be break up work but 40s and muck during the day don't fly with the landowners around here. I need it to get cold. Really nothin on the horizon either.


You and me both this rain over here just won't give up I swear I need to invest in a row boat here soon.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


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## HuskStihl

bitzer said:


> Ok pop quiz! On the oak pulled stump how did I do my back cut? I always like figuring out other people's stumps. Even old rotten ones I find in the woods.


It looks like you cut the far side off first, then pulled it towards u'r root supported holding wood to turn it right or hold it from going left


----------



## northmanlogging

[QUOTE="

Hard pulled red oak.
View attachment 470700


[/QUOTE]

Take a look at the fibers pulled out on the log side, and the patterns in the chips.

Bitz is crazy...


----------



## bitzer

northmanlogging said:


> [QUOTE="
> 
> Hard pulled red oak.
> View attachment 470700



Take a look at the fibers pulled out on the log side, and the patterns in the chips.

Bitz is crazy...[/QUOTE]
I think you got what i was after.


----------



## bitzer

HuskStihl said:


> It looks like you cut the far side off first, then pulled it towards u'r root supported holding wood to turn it right or hold it from going left


And... how?


----------



## HuskStihl

bitzer said:


> And... how?


Above my pay grade!


----------



## treeslayer2003

why? i have done that, although most of our timber is to brittle and will break off sooner. only the willow oak growing in lower ground will pull the stump down that far most times.


----------



## coltont

I like poplar like this.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## bitzer

HuskStihl said:


> Above my pay grade!


Naw i was confusing in how i asked. I backbarred the back cut. Thats what i was looking for. I put the dutchman in first then brought it around to gun. Finished the face. Then put the saw in the kerf in the back and walked it towards the pull side. Putting the dutchman in as your first step can tell you some things about the tree even before you have the face out. Starting the back cut from the kerf i first created seems to give the best movement when i absolutely need it. If im not overly concerned i will start my back cut on the pull corner, work to the other side and then back to pull side to finish. This can sometimes lead to a mismatch in cuts which forms a shelf of wood that has to break and can effect the overall fluidity of movement. I also start my back cut from the dutchman kerf when i know i will need a wedge to get things moving. A clean, single kerf is ideal when wedging a dutchman to start the swing.


----------



## bitzer

treeslayer2003 said:


> why? i have done that, although most of our timber is to brittle and will break off sooner. only the willow oak growing in lower ground will pull the stump down that far most times.


Maybe it is you that is brittle old man! The easier the tree chairs, the better she will pull.


----------



## treeslayer2003

you is full o it.


----------



## bitzer

treeslayer2003 said:


> you is full o it.


Tis true. Long fibers.


----------



## treeslayer2003

hmm, gum has super long fibers, but not splitty, but will pull long ribbons out the stump and log. i guess it really just depends on the wood, but i can turn most timber at least some.
even if i am old n stiff lol.


----------



## Gologit

bitzer said:


> ....and can effect the overall fluidity of movement.



_...fluidity of movement._ By golly Bob, that's just downright poetic.

PS...your education is showing but since you're a pretty good cutter we won't hold it against you.


----------



## HuskStihl

Sweet gum and yellow pine are the only trees that listen to me at all.


----------



## bitzer

treeslayer2003 said:


> hmm, gum has super long fibers, but not splitty, but will pull long ribbons out the stump and log. i guess it really just depends on the wood, but i can turn most timber at least some.
> even if i am old n stiff lol.


Thats true. Basswood doesn't chair but will pull like mad. Aspen too. They will split, just not chair prone. I feel pretty old n stiff by the time i go to bed every night.


----------



## bitzer

Gologit said:


> _...fluidity of movement._ By golly Bob, that's just downright poetic.
> 
> PS...your education is showing but since you're a pretty good cutter we won't hold it against you.


Ha! I was on an exhaustion high. My body had given up, but my brain still saw the colors. A few weeks off of normal logging operations and i am WAY out of shape.


----------



## bitzer

HuskStihl said:


> Sweet gum and yellow pine are the only trees that listen to me at all.


Maybe you should let yer wife talk to them first?


----------



## HuskStihl

bitzer said:


> Maybe you should let yer wife talk to them first?


I don't know if trees respond to constructive criticism


----------



## rwoods

[QUOTE="HuskStihl, post: 5675316, member: 85012".,, constructive criticism[/QUOTE]

Apparently bitzer is not the only one with a gift for words. Ron


----------



## treeslayer2003

bitzer said:


> Thats true. Basswood doesn't chair but will pull like mad. Aspen too. They will split, just not chair prone. I feel pretty old n stiff by the time i go to bed every night.


hahahaha.......just wait a few more years lol.


----------



## bitzer

HuskStihl said:


> I don't know if trees respond to constructive criticism


Is that what she calls it?


----------



## bitzer

treeslayer2003 said:


> hahahaha.......just wait a few more years lol.


It used to be just stiff. Dam kids mucked up the whole works.


----------



## hseII

bitzer said:


> Maybe you should let yer wife talk to them first?





HuskStihl said:


> I don't know if trees respond to constructive criticism



How About Unadulterated Hatefulness? 

I Know Someone. [emoji52]


----------



## Plankton

`Heres some action shots of me killing some spruce. Just started a 5 acre spruce clearcut, should keep me off the streets and out of trouble for a while...


----------



## bitzer

Nice work Plankton! I always like seeing yer pics even tho I give ya **** sometimes. Looks like fun! Makes me wanna cut some conifers.


----------



## Plankton

Part 2: Draws and stumps etc.


----------



## Skeans

Looks good and like fun

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## Plankton

haha yeah sure is fun, no limbs until the top log and I only sharpen once in the morning keeps me going until lunch, I'm running my own skidder now so I skid for the rest of the day.

First time I cut spruce though brittle and flexible at the same time took a little bit to get used to it, I lost a tree over backwards wedging to aggressively and I've pulled some nice swings at the same time..I'm getting in the groove now and definitely enjoying spruce now.


----------



## Skeans

Plankton said:


> haha yeah sure is fun, no limbs until the top log and I only sharpen once in the morning keeps me going until lunch, I'm running my own skidder now so I skid for the rest of the day.
> 
> First time I cut spruce though brittle and flexible at the same time took a little bit to get used to it, I lost a tree over backwards wedging to aggressively and I've pulled some nice swings at the same time..I'm getting in the groove now and definitely enjoying spruce now.


Time to try some Dour fir next?

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## Plankton

I'm about 2000 miles away from the nearest doug fir but I would love to some day.


----------



## Gologit

Plankton said:


> Part 2: Draws and stumps etc.



Nicely done.


----------



## bitzer

Plankton said:


> haha yeah sure is fun, no limbs until the top log and I only sharpen once in the morning keeps me going until lunch, I'm running my own skidder now so I skid for the rest of the day.
> 
> First time I cut spruce though brittle and flexible at the same time took a little bit to get used to it, I lost a tree over backwards wedging to aggressively and I've pulled some nice swings at the same time..I'm getting in the groove now and definitely enjoying spruce now.


So did you buy a forwarder?


----------



## Plankton

No, I bought a clark skidder. I want a forwarder next though

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## slowp

Plankton said:


> I'm about 2000 miles away from the nearest doug fir but I would love to some day.



I know of a couple in Wisconsin. They look more like Eastside DF though.


----------



## bitzer

Yep I've seen some stands here too. Biggest one maybe 30" on the stump. Probably only 75' tall or so.


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## bitzer

Plankton said:


> No, I bought a clark skidder. I want a forwarder next though
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


Glad to hear it! So I'm guessing yer at it full time then? It seemed to me you have a bunch of randoms in the pictures. Thats why I guessed forwarder. I could use a skidder as a second machine. Buckin in the woods and spending the afternoon picking wood up is a nice break on the body tho. Not climbing in and out of the machine i mean. So are you cutting for yerself? Subbing?


----------



## treeslayer2003

plankton, i'm curious why you buck in the woods? that clark would take two of those whole tree to the landing wouldn't it? glad you got her all straightened out.


----------



## treeslayer2003

also good to see a fellow east coaster making a proper back cut


----------



## Plankton

Yep working for my self as full time as I can be with all the rain were having. This is my first sale cutting and skidding for my self.

On the woods bucking I went back and forth between tree length and log length.

A combination of a long tight curvy skid road with nice leave trees perfectly placed on corners and a incredibly small landing that is on town land made me go for bucking in the woods. There are enough crooks and rot on these trees that there would be alot of chunks on the landing.

The mill wants 16s and 12 most if them are 16s with the occasional 12 top log I hitch up 7 logs on the skidder per turn, would do 8 if I had another choker. So that's about two trees, I figured the cons outweighed the benifits in this case.

It it sure is a lot of choker setting though!

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## treeslayer2003

ah, i forget that alot of you guys haul log length any way.


----------



## bitzer

Plankton said:


> Yep working for my self as full time as I can be with all the rain were having. This is my first sale cutting and skidding for my self.
> 
> On the woods bucking I went back and forth between tree length and log length.
> 
> A combination of a long tight curvy skid road with nice leave trees perfectly placed on corners and a incredibly small landing that is on town land made me go for bucking in the woods. There are enough crooks and rot on these trees that there would be alot of chunks on the landing.
> 
> The mill wants 16s and 12 most if them are 16s with the occasional 12 top log I hitch up 7 logs on the skidder per turn, would do 8 if I had another choker. So that's about two trees, I figured the cons outweighed the benifits in this case.
> 
> It it sure is a lot of choker setting though!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


Good for you man! Keep at it! Weather will improve and then hammer down! Ask questions here if you need to even if they might seem dumb. Makin the most out of yer time is what its all about and asking from guys who know where the corners are helps.


----------



## bitzer

Merry Christmas Y'all! Heres a holiday quiz. Hopefully Huskstihl gets the first shot. Whats happening in the first and second stumps here? The last one is pretty self explanatory. Just wanted to show that white oak can clean up. Its funny that it cracked on the Dutchman side. I've seen that before in high pressure situations.





Little leaning white oak.







Pullin a white oak around.





Cleaned up


----------



## bitzer

Apparently Jon is on vacay up in Vermont. I think he would be gettin more snow at home.


----------



## treeslayer2003

ok, i'll take a stab. that bottom oak don't look like any white oak we have here......different sub species maybe. top one does......i'm not totally sure what you did but looks like ya kept nippin the off side?


----------



## bitzer

treeslayer2003 said:


> ok, i'll take a stab. that bottom oak don't look like any white oak we have here......different sub species maybe. top one does......i'm not totally sure what you did but looks like ya kept nippin the off side?


The bottom tree (last two pics) is a burr oak. The 1st pic is white oak maybe 22 or so inches on the stump. The small stump i took a pic of because of a discussion on here and how to handle small timber(also white oak). The stump in the first pic had a heavy leaning crown. The stem lean itself wasn't much. 

I need more in depth then that Mike!


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## Trx250r180




----------



## Plankton

Did you bore in on the left side leaving the right quarter for support, take the lean off with some wedges and finish the cut on the right? Leaning back heavier on the left so needed to keep boring to keep the saw from pinching? I don't see any wedge marks though...

I do that on smaller back leaning trees cut half a coos bay throw some wedges in and finish the cut and pound away till she tips.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## Plankton

Meaning the first tree of course

Second stump is above my pay grade haha


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## treeslayer2003

i understand the second tree better......looks like some chit i would do on a heavy leaner, but only on certain species.


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## bitzer

Trx250r180 said:


> View attachment 474115


What ya lookin at there?


----------



## bitzer

Plankton said:


> Did you bore in on the left side leaving the right quarter for support, take the lean off with some wedges and finish the cut on the right? Leaning back heavier on the left so needed to keep boring to keep the saw from pinching? I don't see any wedge marks though...
> 
> I do that on smaller back leaning trees cut half a coos bay throw some wedges in and finish the cut and pound away till she tips.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


The only boring i did was the heart from the face. No wedges were needed. 

I do that sometimes in small dbh too. If i've miss judged the lean. Not the case here tho.


----------



## bitzer

treeslayer2003 said:


> i understand the second tree better......looks like some chit i would do on a heavy leaner, but only on certain species.


The second one was a small crowned, leaning tree.


----------



## Trx250r180

bitzer said:


> What ya lookin at there?


Looks like you nipped through half the hinge to swing it off the stump 90 degrees of the face


----------



## HuskStihl

Oh man, I totally missed this! The second one looks "stump jumped".
The first you set up the face, maybe bored a tiny bit thru the face. It looks like you back barred the near side, setting up you pulling wood, then released from the far side. 
If I didn't have a nearly Bitzerian number of children, along with a no-nonsense wife, I would buy some ear plugs (to protect my delicate inner child from Bitz' potty mouth) and a plane ticket to Butt****, Wisconsin and spend a few days getting a ******** timber education.


----------



## HuskStihl

That is a huge chunk of holding/turning wood in the last one! It must have been wanting to really go the other way to have cracked the far side like that


----------



## Skeans

HuskStihl said:


> That is a huge chunk of holding/turning wood in the last one! It must have been wanting to really go the other way to have cracked the far side like that


A good siz wheel will pull roots and stumps like that as well.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


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## bitzer

Trx250r180 said:


> Looks like you nipped through half the hinge to swing it off the stump 90 degrees of the face


The area you have circled is where I trimmed off the pull wood after the tree was on the ground.


----------



## bitzer

HuskStihl said:


> Oh man, I totally missed this! The second one looks "stump jumped".
> The first you set up the face, maybe bored a tiny bit thru the face. It looks like you back barred the near side, setting up you pulling wood, then released from the far side.
> If I didn't have a nearly Bitzerian number of children, along with a no-nonsense wife, I would buy some ear plugs (to protect my delicate inner child from Bitz' potty mouth) and a plane ticket to Butt****, Wisconsin and spend a few days getting a ******** timber education.



You're pretty close Jon. Conventional face. Gutted the heart. Coos bay backcut. I back-barred the near side first from back to the hinge (face and near quarter of backcut all done on my knees from same side). Then got up and walked to the far side, set the tip just behind the hinge and back-barred toward the center, eventually standing directly behind the tree. Note the small plug of wood very back, center that I did not get cut in time. This tree would be bored 100 percent of the time by any timber cutter up here. It had enough top weight it was only going one way and being white oak(super splitty). I snapped a pic of this stump because it was super clean in the cuts matching on a coos bay. This cut is also why I only bore about 3 trees a year.

The second stump was a jump. I was going to post it in a thread where a guy was talking about boring 6-8" leaners. I wanted to impress the fact on him that you should be able to just snip em off. I thought that might be a little dickish tho.

Oh and we pronounce it Ass****, WI Jon!


----------



## bitzer

HuskStihl said:


> That is a huge chunk of holding/turning wood in the last one! It must have been wanting to really go the other way to have cracked the far side like that


The tree was dead as you can tell by the punky roots. I may have had to wedge to start this one. Can't remember. I left a lot of wood for it to pull. I was saving it from falling into a creek.


----------



## treeslayer2003

ah, you too hate to clean out smz lol.


----------



## bitzer

Just a few recent pics.


Super clean hard maple for this size. Had to jack it to keep it off of the indian burials.



Tryin something new.



I cut this guys tail off the day before when buckin. I knew I hit a coon cuz of the fur that pulled out of the cut and blood on the bar. Didn't get around to pickn logs up til the next day. I shook him out and he went bookin out of there. I bet his ass is still sore.



Different kind of quiz for Huskstihl. How many stiches?! This is from a few months ago. Its a scar already.


----------



## HuskStihl

bitzer said:


> Just a few recent pics.
> 
> 
> Super clean hard maple for this size. Had to jack it to keep it off of the indian burials.
> View attachment 477563
> 
> 
> Tryin something new.
> View attachment 477562
> 
> 
> I cut this guys tail off the day before when buckin. I knew I hit a coon cuz of the fur that pulled out of the cut and blood on the bar. Didn't get around to pickn logs up til the next day. I shook him out and he went bookin out of there. I bet his ass is still sore.
> View attachment 477561
> 
> 
> Different kind of quiz for Huskstihl. How many stiches?! This is from a few months ago. Its a scar already.
> 
> View attachment 477560


I could sew that with 4 "horizontal mattress" stitches with a 4-0 nylon. Something like this


----------



## madhatte

Hot dang yo!


----------



## bitzer

HuskStihl said:


> I could sew that with 4 "horizontal mattress" stitches with a 4-0 nylon. Something like this View attachment 477567


Where did you get pictures of my testicle reduction surgery? It took him six. Thats what the wife said anyway. I didnt count em. Curious how I did it?


----------



## treeslayer2003

doesn't look like a saw cut


----------



## bitzer

treeslayer2003 said:


> doesn't look like a saw cut


Technically was. I was bucking at chest height or so. Saw got pinched on split wood i didn't see. Tried to free it with a wedge, but realized i was going to need to cut the saw out. So in one quick motion i yanked the wedge out and pulled back dragging my elbow across the stuck chain. It cut through a cotton long sleeve and heavy flannel no problem. The doc said i was one layer away from muscle damage. It barely bled. I covered it good and put pressure on it with and old sock pulled over my arm and went back to cutting. After a few more trees my head was clearly not in it so i left for the day. Drove the 100 miles home and then got stiched up. I was super pist at myself.


----------



## treeslayer2003

ah i see. cut my knuckles to the bone filing chain.......decided to wear gloves. chain is sharp or its no good.
you got it pretty good there.


----------



## fireman33

A few pics of today, beautiful hardwood stand...sugar and red maple, yellow and white birch and some ash.

550xp with 18" bar is doing great...even at -25 Celsius.


----------



## madhatte

Had a damn cottonwood go sideways on me today. A superman dive and a hit to my pride were the immediate actions; an hour or so bucking and flipping limbs and rounds back over the property line were less immediate. I wish I'd gotten pics but I was too busy cleaning up my mess to bother. I don't like cottonwood. Short, weak, brittle fibers and heavy tops don't mix. I also don't much like bucking rounds to stand on to keep my feet out of water. Or shortening stumps for footholds. Did I mention that I was cutting on the edge of a pond? Yard jobs. I can see why arborists are so grumpy.


----------



## Gologit

madhatte said:


> Had a damn cottonwood go sideways on me today. A superman dive and a hit to my pride were the immediate actions; an hour or so bucking and flipping limbs and rounds back over the property line were less immediate. I wish I'd gotten pics but I was too busy cleaning up my mess to bother. I don't like cottonwood. Short, weak, brittle fibers and heavy tops don't mix. I also don't much like bucking rounds to stand on to keep my feet out of water. Or shortening stumps for footholds. Did I mention that I was cutting on the edge of a pond? Yard jobs. I can see why arborists are so grumpy.


 Did you hit any barbecue grills or picnic tables?


----------



## treeslayer2003

hahaha, welcome to my world Nate. you do enough of those you'll figure out a way to swing um. i hate pickin up sticks.........


----------



## bitzer

treeslayer2003 said:


> hahaha, welcome to my world Nate. you do enough of those you'll figure out a way to swing um. i hate pickin up sticks.........


Yep!


----------



## madhatte

Gologit said:


> Did you hit any barbecue grills or picnic tables?



No, but that's only because there weren't any there. I did clobber hell out of one of the other trees I was gonna cut, a rotten piece of forked crap... which saved me the cutting. So, y'know, not a total loss. 



treeslayer2003 said:


> hahaha, welcome to my world Nate. you do enough of those you'll figure out a way to swing um. i hate pickin up sticks.........



The ones before and after swung just fine! This one was just a jerk. I musta pissed in its Wheaties or something.


----------



## northmanlogging

happy little Dougie from Saturday.


----------



## madhatte

Nice clean stump ya made there.


----------



## Skeans

Well my 15 year old 385xp finally bit the dust crank bearings went out.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


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## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> happy little Dougie from Saturday.
> 
> View attachment 481355


Looks good I'd rather be cutting then doing maintenance. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


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## Plankton

Good sized Spruce from the other day


----------



## bitzer

Nice stump. Limby?


----------



## bitzer

northmanlogging said:


> happy little Dougie from Saturday.
> 
> View attachment 481355


Nice stump Matt. You brushed in a little prior?


----------



## northmanlogging

not too limby Lots of viney maple on this job, so finding the stumps can be tough. Mostly cotton wood so the evergreens got real tall and limbless, that and doug firs have a habit of delimbing when they hit the ground, same as cotton woods really.

The viney maple is a curse though, tough springy vines 20-30' long, and tangled they can hold an entire log off the ground or hang a skidder up if not careful, figuring the bind on one can be interesting, just cause its arched one way doesn't mean its loaded that way. Local guy few years back misjudged one, took out his lower intestines, the boys, and if memory serves broke his back too, he lived but only just. The scary thing is bucking with yer logs on top of em, its best to cut all the viney maple you can then buck, since if you forget or miss one it can launch you, the log, yer saw, and whatever else is in the way.


----------



## bitzer

northmanlogging said:


> not too limby Lots of viney maple on this job, so finding the stumps can be tough. Mostly cotton wood so the evergreens got real tall and limbless, that and doug firs have a habit of delimbing when they hit the ground, same as cotton woods really.
> 
> The viney maple is a curse though, tough springy vines 20-30' long, and tangled they can hold an entire log off the ground or hang a skidder up if not careful, figuring the bind on one can be interesting, just cause its arched one way doesn't mean its loaded that way. Local guy few years back misjudged one, took out his lower intestines, the boys, and if memory serves broke his back too, he lived but only just. The scary thing is bucking with yer logs on top of em, its best to cut all the viney maple you can then buck, since if you forget or miss one it can launch you, the log, yer saw, and whatever else is in the way.


Fun. We don't have that here. Plenty of vines to cut on some jobs, but they only cause a problem if you miss one.


----------



## Skeans

Found this when I was helping my dad do some cleaning of him and his cutting partner in the 90's dropping a small old growth on our place.

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## Woos31

Skeans said:


> Found this when I was helping my dad do some cleaning of him and his cutting partner in the 90's dropping a small old growth on our place.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


Very cool photo of your ol man skeans, big ole sucker fish right here for that kinda stuff. Wish I had more pictures of my dad and family cutting, ain't nothin better than watching a good faller work his magic in my opinion. Can't explain it to the unknowing, but I'm sure the rest of you fallers can relate. When a faller finds his rhythm it's just magic, filthy black magic lol.


----------



## Skeans

Woos31 said:


> Very cool photo of your ol man skeans, big ole sucker fish right here for that kinda stuff. Wish I had more pictures of my dad and family cutting, ain't nothin better than watching a good faller work his magic in my opinion. Can't explain it to the unknowing, but I'm sure the rest of you fallers can relate. When a faller finds his rhythm it's just magic, filthy black magic lol.


I'd have to look around I think we still have some pictures of my grandpa and great grandfather in the woods together, and an old family friend that cut in the old logging camps.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


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## Woos31

Skeans said:


> I'd have to look around I think we still have some pictures of my grandpa and great grandfather in the woods together, and an old family friend that cut in the old logging camps.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


That's super cool skeans!


----------



## Skeans

I hate blow down

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## bitzer

Come on! It can be fun.


----------



## Skeans

bitzer said:


> Come on! It can be fun.


Got to respect it that's for sure it's amazing how the wind can tangle a fir into a few others. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


----------



## Gologit

bitzer said:


> Come on! It can be fun.



Fun? The only fun I ever had with blowdown was cashing my check at the end of the week.


----------



## Skeans

Gologit said:


> Fun? The only fun I ever had with blowdown was cashing my check at the end of the week.


Then it's off to the bar.

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## bitzer

Gologit said:


> Fun? The only fun I ever had with blowdown was cashing my check at the end of the week.


Apparently we have a different idea of fun. A hooker, a midget, half ounce of cocaine, and some explosives-thats fun too.


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## northmanlogging

Whats a hooker going to do with the explosives? Thats the road builders job...


----------



## bitzer

northmanlogging said:


> Whats a hooker going to do with the explosives? Thats the road builders job...


Oh Northy, you've been in the woods too long... The midget mans the explosives.


----------



## Skeans

A few shots of my old man running his favorite saw the 562xpw with a 32" Sugihara light weight. On a side note woods logging in Longview is carrying the bars now and keeping them in stock for cheaper then anywhere else I have found.

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## Skeans

40" fir with root rot and of course it leaned away from the lead and lay with no axe of course just a beater wedge.

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## bitzer

Some pics from the current job. Most of the trees are dead or are dying from oak wilt. Also removing the ash cuz EAB is coming. Everything on the left and in the far background is going. Landing is off to the left out of pic.




I'm standing on a saddle between two kettles here. It doesn't look steep, but I popped a wheelie and a full bunk slid off the back coming out of here the first time. Had to go a little lighter after that. Still wigglin uphill at times tho.



Good production wood in here. Lots of bar length red oak. Runnin to the end of my tape a lot. 





Enough ground to let this one fly down the hill. Swung it over the saddle so I could stretch it out.




Small landing. Truckers ain't too happy. Only flat piece around though.


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## Skeans

bitzer said:


> Some pics from the current job. Most of the trees are dead or are dying from oak wilt. Also removing the ash cuz EAB is coming. Everything on the left and in the far background is going. Landing is off to the left out of pic.
> 
> View attachment 485595
> 
> 
> I'm standing on a saddle between two kettles here. It doesn't look steep, but I popped a wheelie and a full bunk slid off the back coming out of here the first time. Had to go a little lighter after that. Still wigglin uphill at times tho.
> View attachment 485596
> 
> 
> Good production wood in here. Lots of bar length red oak. Runnin to the end of my tape a lot.
> 
> View attachment 485597
> 
> 
> 
> Enough ground to let this one fly down the hill. Swung it over the saddle so I could stretch it out.
> 
> View attachment 485599
> 
> 
> Small landing. Truckers ain't too happy. Only flat piece around though.
> 
> View attachment 485598


Do you guys load the bunks well running backwards up hills?

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## bitzer

I have. There is a pond at one end that I will have to dead end at the bottom. Basically lay everything out, then push to the bottom with the forwarder and load up while backing up. Gotta make sure I have it pushed out wide enough tho. Gets tough to see as you get closer to the top. If I can turn around at the bottom I will usually load on the way down and then turn around to head back out. I've been clearing most of the bottom wood out first and pushing tops out of the way to make room for the sidehill trees and room to move once I get to the bottom.


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## Plankton

Nice looking wood, is that a franklin forwarder?


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## bitzer

Plankton said:


> Nice looking wood, is that a franklin forwarder?


Thanks and yes. Its a roof mount. It was hard to get used to the feeling of tipping over all the time, but you can't beat how high you can stack the bunk and 360 degrees of reach. I watched yer video the other day on youtube. 99 percent sure it was you anyway. Looked like fun.


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## Plankton

I want to get a forwarder sooner rather then later, I think a combination with a cable skidder would be great. It would be so handy to have a loader on the landing to stack piles nice and tall and not have to pay someone to load up semis for me too.

Ya video with the flatt and scruggs song? Sure is fun wood to cut, wouldn't mind being in some hardwood next so I can pay some bills haha


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## Cedarkerf

northmanlogging said:


> The viney maple is a curse though, tough springy vines 20-30' long, and tangled they can hold an entire log off the ground or hang a skidder up if not careful, figuring the bind on one can be interesting, just cause its arched one way doesn't mean its loaded that way. Local guy few years back misjudged one, took out his lower intestines, the boys, and if memory serves broke his back too, he lived but only just. The scary thing is bucking with yer logs on top of em, its best to cut all the viney maple you can then buck, since if you forget or miss one it can launch you, the log, yer saw, and whatever else is in the way.



Vine maple is good for throwing and breaking chains it'll chatter your teeth but if your willing to cut it, it makes good fire wood. It also makes beautiful leaves in the fall so has a couple redeeming values


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## northmanlogging

the leaves are nice I guess...

firewood... leave it for the homeowner, load the dumper truck with tops and long butts, two loads will get me through most winters.


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## Woody912

HuskStihl said:


> Sweet gum and yellow pine are the only trees that listen to me at all.


I'll bet a hackberry would. Sugarberry down your way maybe


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## bitzer

Matt-metal question for ya. 2nd set of dawgs this has happened to. I crack them and weld it up and a few weeks later a crack forms on the edge of the weld and so on. I just keep chasin new cracks. What can i do if anything? I'm using as low a voltage i can to keep a bead. I just let it cool on its own.


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## northmanlogging

Preheat, not sure what kind of steel they use on those but it would make sense if they had a little extra carbon in em, I've filed on em before and it wasn't exactly good on the file...

Any way preheat to like 500 deg then weld away, weld at whatever amps give good penetration, and a flat bead, the preheat spreads the heat out to a wider area and is less of a shock to the steel, also never quench after welding... bad habit that is hard to break. Though I see now your letting them cool on their own....

possibly you can preheat some sand or a welding blanket then once your done welding chuck em em the sand or wrap them in the blanket so it cools off nice and slow. Stuff the sand in a old bread pan, and warm it in the oven at like 450 should do.

Or use a stainless wire, stainless has a bit more "give" to it.

the third option it to buy a stihl...

As a side note... My 066 got blowed up for me last week and my back up 461 had its first and only trip to the shop on sunday... someone jerked the impulse line off the crank... never loan out a saw.


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## treeslayer2003

Matt, rebuild that 066. especially if its an early one.


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## Skeans

What process of welding are you using? If it's tig a good safe filler would be like SS 309.

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## Skeans

bitzer said:


> Matt-metal question for ya. 2nd set of dawgs this has happened to. I crack them and weld it up and a few weeks later a crack forms on the edge of the weld and so on. I just keep chasin new cracks. What can i do if anything? I'm using as low a voltage i can to keep a bead. I just let it cool on its own.


I have a spare set of West coast dawgs if you're interested.

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## Skeans

Cedarkerf said:


> Vine maple is good for throwing and breaking chains it'll chatter your teeth but if your willing to cut it, it makes good fire wood. It also makes beautiful leaves in the fall so has a couple redeeming values


It also works great for big wood if it's a big patch of vineys to help save them out.

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## northmanlogging

treeslayer2003 said:


> Matt, rebuild that 066. especially if its an early one.



waiting on parts, probably going to rattle the dremel around in her a bit before install as well. Thought about cutting the squish, and what not but I'm not to confident in what exactly to do there and don't want to ruin a needed jug.



Skeans said:


> It also works great for big wood if it's a big patch of vineys to help save them out.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk



Just kind a sucks trying to get to the stumps, or if you have some big nasty vineys they can launch a freshly bucked stick into you, or cut a vine and it launches into you, just unpleasant through and through.


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## HuskStihl

Woody912 said:


> I'll bet a hackberry would. Sugarberry down your way maybe


Hackberry takes a little more convincing than sweet gum


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## Woody912

HuskStihl said:


> Hackberry takes a little more convincing than sweet gum
> View attachment 486472



Had one stop falling about 45 degree angle from the ground once. 6' on snow around it so I had to walk under it to finish cutting the *&^%$#


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## bitzer

northmanlogging said:


> Preheat, not sure what kind of steel they use on those but it would make sense if they had a little extra carbon in em, I've filed on em before and it wasn't exactly good on the file...
> 
> Any way preheat to like 500 deg then weld away, weld at whatever amps give good penetration, and a flat bead, the preheat spreads the heat out to a wider area and is less of a shock to the steel, also never quench after welding... bad habit that is hard to break. Though I see now your letting them cool on their own....
> 
> possibly you can preheat some sand or a welding blanket then once your done welding chuck em em the sand or wrap them in the blanket so it cools off nice and slow. Stuff the sand in a old bread pan, and warm it in the oven at like 450 should do.
> 
> Or use a stainless wire, stainless has a bit more "give" to it.
> 
> the third option it to buy a stihl...
> 
> As a side note... My 066 got blowed up for me last week and my back up 461 had its first and only trip to the shop on sunday... someone jerked the impulse line off the crank... never loan out a saw.



Thanks Matt! I wish I knew metals better than I do. I gave the pre-heat a try tonight. Probably be a few weeks before I know if it works.


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## bitzer

Skeans said:


> I have a spare set of West coast dawgs if you're interested.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


Thanks for the offer. I've got a set of five points from Baileys, one from Madsens, and the bigger stock 4 points from husky. The set from Madsens is thicker than the baileys set, but I always find a way to use my saw to break my fall. I don't even bust out undercuts with em anymore. The two five point sets are cracked on the outer dawg. The stock huskys are not, but they don't get the leverage I need around the roots swells.


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## Skeans

bitzer said:


> Thanks for the offer. I've got a set of five points from Baileys, one from Madsens, and the bigger stock 4 points from husky. The set from Madsens is thicker than the baileys set, but I always find a way to use my saw to break my fall. I don't even bust out undercuts with em anymore. The two five point sets are cracked on the outer dawg. The stock huskys are not, but they don't get the leverage I need around the roots swells.


Another way to help not burn through too is use a copper backing then crack the volts and wire speed up like it needs and then heat to slowly cool as well.

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## northmanlogging

never actually used the copper backing... always thing about it after I blow holes in important stuff.


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## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> never actually used the copper backing... always thing about it after I blow holes in important stuff.


Those copper spoons from harbor freight are great and cheap.








Damn batteries went out in my hood.

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## northmanlogging

got a solar powered version, not sure who makes it, not horrible fright, but so far its been my favorite enexpensive too, like 70 bucks and no redneck flames on it either.


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## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> got a solar powered version, not sure who makes it, not horrible fright, but so far its been my favorite enexpensive too, like 70 bucks and no redneck flames on it either.


Some of the solar ones don't go dark enough for tig welding is the issue.

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## northmanlogging

this one is adjustable, from 9-12 or 3-6 or something, high and a low, so far I really like it.


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## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> this one is adjustable, from 9-12 or 3-6 or something, high and a low, so far I really like it.


My speedglas goes to 14 for tig it's amazing how bright tig welding really is compared to mig.

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## bitzer

Skeans said:


> Those copper spoons from harbor freight are great and cheap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Damn batteries went out in my hood.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk




The batteries are dying in mine. Annoying. Anyway what is going on in the first pic and whats with the copper? I taught myself to weld 10 years ago on a stick machine. Its still all i use and im pretty good at it, but that pretty much means i know very little about the rest.


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## northmanlogging

the copper acts as a heat sink, allowing you turn the amps up and get good penetration on relatively thin material, and keeps the puddle from dropping out the bottom. Though stick welding thin material is still going to be an ass ache. As i said before known about them for years even have some copper laying around just in case... never think about it until after I fill all the holes I just made.

If you have a few exter bucks consider getting a mig set up, probably around 600 for a mid grade homeowner model and a bottle, maybe a little more if you go all out and get upper end stuff. Not as powerful as a proper stick machine, but nice clean welds for the average do it yerself back yard hack like myself. Plus they weld out of position very well without all the bothersome technique you need with a stick welder... well most of it anyway... Find units all the time on C's list for reasonable prices.


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## Skeans

bitzer said:


> The batteries are dying in mine. Annoying. Anyway what is going on in the first pic and whats with the copper? I taught myself to weld 10 years ago on a stick machine. Its still all i use and im pretty good at it, but that pretty much means i know very little about the rest.


Northman hit it dead on the head.


northmanlogging said:


> the copper acts as a heat sink, allowing you turn the amps up and get good penetration on relatively thin material, and keeps the puddle from dropping out the bottom. Though stick welding thin material is still going to be an ass ache. As i said before known about them for years even have some copper laying around just in case... never think about it until after I fill all the holes I just made.
> 
> If you have a few exter bucks consider getting a mig set up, probably around 600 for a mid grade homeowner model and a bottle, maybe a little more if you go all out and get upper end stuff. Not as powerful as a proper stick machine, but nice clean welds for the average do it yerself back yard hack like myself. Plus they weld out of position very well without all the bothersome technique you need with a stick welder... well most of it anyway... Find units all the time on C's list for reasonable prices.


I just picked up that tig 1675 with cart and argon bottle brand new, Lincoln just came out with a nice little inverter mig for 1200 out the door with no bottle or cart.

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## northmanlogging

I've heard good things about the inverter machines, but mine are just fine for what I do so can't justify buying new machine only cause its neeto. Though I'm still looking at getting a scratch start TIG torch to run with the engine drive.


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## northmanlogging

And a cnc plasma torch would unleash a whole galaxy of new and crazier projects


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## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> I've heard good things about the inverter machines, but mine are just fine for what I do so can't justify buying new machine only cause its neeto. Though I'm still looking at getting a scratch start TIG torch to run with the engine drive.


Like a 26 flex head torch then?

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## northmanlogging

Yes!

Just haven't gotten around to it yet... welding shop closes before I can get to em, same with the saw shop lately too...


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## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> Yes!
> 
> Just haven't gotten around to it yet... welding shop closes before I can get to em, same with the saw shop lately too...


That's the great thing about online just make sure it has everything you need, valve, and the adapter to make it live.

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## northmanlogging

I like supporting local business. and they can give me a heads up on the things I might be missing or suggest better versions etc. 

Flea bay is all well and good when you know exactly what your looking for, but I'm no more a welder then I am a cook, i can do it and the results are satisfactory, but I don't always know how I got there...


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## northmanlogging

Speaking of welding some time in the not to distant future I plan on fabbing up some bunks for the equipment trailer, nothing super fancy but removable and fairly short. Just have to get the steel and get at it... you know in between working 40-50 hrs cutting steel, 20-30 hours cutting timber and sleeping somewhere in between


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## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> Speaking of welding some time in the not to distant future I plan on fabbing up some bunks for the equipment trailer, nothing super fancy but removable and fairly short. Just have to get the steel and get at it... you know in between working 40-50 hrs cutting steel, 20-30 hours cutting timber and sleeping somewhere in between


Sounds like a good place for a good mig or something like a Miller Shop Master 300 multi process machine.

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## northmanlogging

Got my lincoln 125 plus and thelincoln weldan 225, figured I'd use 7018 on it, maybe stick it together with the mig, Plan on using 3x2-1/2 tubing 3/16 wall or so, gusseted with 1/4 plate, got most all the plan in my head like most of my home projects.... can't seem to handle measuring things when I'm not getting paid to.


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## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> Got my lincoln 125 plus and thelincoln weldan 225, figured I'd use 7018 on it, maybe stick it together with the mig, Plan on using 3x2-1/2 tubing 3/16 wall or so, gusseted with 1/4 plate, got most all the plan in my head like most of my home projects.... can't seem to handle measuring things when I'm not getting paid to.


That'd be a perfect place to build yourself a jig then it'd go nice and fast if something happens to one too 

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## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> Got my lincoln 125 plus and thelincoln weldan 225, figured I'd use 7018 on it, maybe stick it together with the mig, Plan on using 3x2-1/2 tubing 3/16 wall or so, gusseted with 1/4 plate, got most all the plan in my head like most of my home projects.... can't seem to handle measuring things when I'm not getting paid to.


Would you be ahead to find an old mule train pup?

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## Plankton

Nice spruce from today average stand diameter is increasing while I move down the hill in my clearcut.

Slower then molasses this winter with mud season every other week and ice in between.

This one bushed out pretty early, but nice sized around.













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## northmanlogging

Skeans said:


> Would you be ahead to find an old mule train pup?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk



Would need a different truck one with air brakes, and a cdl. Otherwise eventually the plan is to get a tandem axle dumper a bigger better trailer, then maybe add the pup. But first an excavator and dozer.


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## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> Would need a different truck one with air brakes, and a cdl. Otherwise eventually the plan is to get a tandem axle dumper a bigger better trailer, then maybe add the pup. But first an excavator and dozer.


If you're going to take it on the road you'll have to certify it.

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## northmanlogging

the truck and trailer? yeah, and get a cdl and all sorts of headache... and better insurance, tonnage, a shrink maybe.


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## Gologit

northmanlogging said:


> the truck and trailer? yeah, and get a cdl and all sorts of headache... and better insurance, tonnage, a shrink maybe.



Also, you'll have to sign up for a drug testing program administered by your insurance company. And don't forget BIT inspections and reams of paperwork. Trucks are a pain.


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## Skeans

Gologit said:


> Also, you'll have to sign up for a drug testing program administered by your insurance company. And don't forget BIT inspections and reams of paperwork. Trucks are a pain.


Yes they are but also worth it at the same time.

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## bitzer

More from this job. Guess its been a while since I've been able to see my wood all laid out.

View from the road again with everything laid out in this kettle.





Skid trail comes out from the bottom and goes from right to left here onto that little saddle and out.






From the other side. Skid trail right to left here. Landing in the far distance center.




Average stick in here. A lot of these trees have been dead for 5+ years I think. LOTS of lookin up and running on this job.




Nice living stick. 40" on stump. 60' to the crotch.




Pretty pist about this, but I called it when I first moved in. I told the forester I wanted to lay the wood along the road. He insisted (per the landowner) that we make the landing off the road like in the first set of pics. Didn't take long to run into trouble with that. Ended up having to move a lot of wood.


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## bitzer

Plankton said:


> Nice spruce from today average stand diameter is increasing while I move down the hill in my clearcut.
> 
> Slower then molasses this winter with mud season every other week and ice in between.
> 
> This one bushed out pretty early, but nice sized around.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk




We've had a real mild winter too. 53 degrees today. Reminds me of the first winter I went logging. Don't know how I made it thru that one. Gas was $4.25 a gallon too then. Fillin the truck every other day was 100 bucks. My wife thought I had made a big mistake. I just kept pushing.


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## 1270d

Nice timber bitz


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## bitzer

1270d said:


> Nice timber bitz


Thank you sir! It stayin cold enough up there? Dam spring here almost. Supposed to freeze every night next week, but mids thirties during the day. With no frost and no snow I hope its a quick break up.


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## 1270d

We re in the middle of a warm stretch for sure. Getting into the high thirties. We still have decent snow cover and low teens at night, but the county boys will get itchy to post the roads at the first sign of sun, regardless of temp. 

Two weeks left on this job, which is on restricted road, then class A for breakup. We need to pound some frost into the next job though or we won't be able to work it.

You have something lined up for spring, or going to kick up your heels?


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## Gologit

Skeans said:


> Yes they are but also worth it at the same time.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk



You're right. With your own trucks you know what you've got and you can be pretty sure they'll show up every day. Plus, they're a good write-off.
All the same, they're still a major PITA.


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## 1270d

Gologit said:


> All the same, they're still a major PITA.



This was our experience. It was a happy day when the last truck was sold.


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## Gologit

1270d said:


> This was our experience. It was a happy day when the last truck was sold.



I understand that. Running a fleet of company trucks, or even just a couple, gets harder every year.
Just before I retired the company I was working for went to an electronic system for the driver's logbooks. They were pretty much forced into it by the insurance companies. No more paper logbooks, all the driver did was push buttons on a keyboard and satellite tracking kept an eye on everything. They showed me some of the printouts. It showed everything the driver had done all day in minute detail.
No more chiseling a couple of extra hours every day if you needed them to get the job done. Lots of short days because there wasn't time, legally, to go get another load. The driver's hated it, the company hated it, and it really cut into productivity.
The gypos liked it because they were still running the old style log books and with a little creative book keeping they could work however they needed to to make a day.


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## 1270d

It's been five years since our last one went. We have worked with quite a few subs in the mean time, but we havent had a log book, medical card, inspection report or flat tire. In that time

Been working with the current guys for almost two years now. Good rigs, good drivers, on time and get the job done. What more could you ask?


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## bitzer

1270d said:


> We re in the middle of a warm stretch for sure. Getting into the high thirties. We still have decent snow cover and low teens at night, but the county boys will get itchy to post the roads at the first sign of sun, regardless of temp.
> 
> Two weeks left on this job, which is on restricted road, then class A for breakup. We need to pound some frost into the next job though or we won't be able to work it.
> 
> You have something lined up for spring, or going to kick up your heels?


Not much of a winter to keep up my heels on. It rained from midNov- mid Dec and Didn't get cold til new years here. I've got a break up clearcut to do that is halfway decent timber so I've got that to fall back on. I pray its a dry spring after that.


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## rwoods

I'm trespassing over here again so I'll keep my head down and stay close to the ground. I borrowed the technique from the wedge stacking thread today to get out of a jam. As most of you know I hate cutting small trees because I am absolutely no good at it. Anyways I misread the lean on two small trees and pinched my saw. Now without a doubt NM and some of you could have just muscled the tree over in the intended direction but they were too heavy for me. First one I just re-cut it at 90 degrees of the originally intended direction and put it in a little gap. The other I bore cut from the face side a wedge slot and hammered it over. I took a whack to my finger by hitting the chain brake on my first good swing. It still hurts. Anyway below are a few pictures. BTW when I was forced to stack wedges on a 24" dead red oak, I did it the old fashion way. One advantage to cutting firewood over logging is I usually can make the stump height whatever I want.







Ron


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## rwoods

Usually I get to cut after the logging, this go around no logging has occurred and I was told I could cut anything I wanted, Couldn't bring myself to waste good live trees without double checking with the owners so I just cut culls today. While documenting the wedge technique I took pictures of the type of live junk I am cutting - first two are of a doggy poplar next to a nice white oak I saved and the other two are of a snake of a 18" red oak. 









Ron


----------



## derwoodii

rwoods said:


> Usually I get to cut after the logging, this go around no logging has occurred and I was told I could cut anything I wanted, Couldn't bring myself to waste good live trees without double checking with the owners so I just cut culls today. While documenting the wedge technique I took pictures of the type of live junk I am cutting - first two are of a doggy poplar next to a nice white oak I saved and the other two are of a snake of a 18" red oak.
> 
> View attachment 487256
> View attachment 487257
> 
> 
> View attachment 487259
> View attachment 487260
> 
> 
> Ron




reading weight and direction of fall while avoiding the canopy snags on those 2 twisted trunk could have been tricky so nicely done,,.


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## rwoods

Last post before the shooting starts. First tree of the day was a tall slender tree that hung in the top. There was a 1" spring pole that I thought wise to cut before attempting to working the tree down a segment at a time. I was surprised to find that the little spring pole was actually helping to support the tree a good two feet. Before I completed the 1" cut the stem dropped that two feet catching my chain in the sapling knocking it off in the process and bending it. I only got to cut for 2 1/2 hours today and as my life with little trees would have it I spent more time on three of them than I did on the couple dozen or so trees I cut, including several in the 18" to 24" range.




Ron

PS to derwoodii - thanks for the kind compliment. It is undeserved - you know the little saying about blind squirrels finding nuts.


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## northmanlogging

So I'm not the only one to bend a chain today?

Good work Rwoods, done the same thing with the wedging myself.

As a side note the weather was so nice today I got to go swimming... and just so you know saws don't run real good when they are full of water...


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## bitzer

Ron on the small dbh. Backcut em first if you are unsure and put a wedge in. Then yer face cuts. Occaisionally you will have to hurry up on your face cuts because it starts to go, but usually it doesn't. If it does start to go, throw a few quick kerfs in, in place of a face. They will give enough relief to get the tree to fall and create a hinge as long as you don't saw all the way thru. Watch the pinch tho. Bent chains happen. Grab the chain and use yer thumbs to push and the rest of yer hands to pull while its still warm. I've straightened many chains that way. If its bad enough the axe can get it close and yer hands can do the rest. Pinched rails you can open with a bar wrench and axe on a stump pretty quick. I usually can do it without taking the chain off. You did good on those ugly trees! Also its amazing how much weight a little whip can support.


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## rwoods

bitzer,

If it is a smaller leaner I do the back first but as I said I am no good with little trees. These two undergrowth trees appeared to be so balanced that you could fall them in any direction but for the canopy. Of course few trees are balanced and I predicted wrong.

Bent bars? 

Last month: After an attempt of field straightening ; bar was bent a good 45 degrees. From a pinch in a supporting tree. Hit by supported tree on the way down. Supported tree was a blown over. Had to bore cut the supporting tree and trigger - too dangerous to jockey positions for a Coos with only a 20" bar on my backup saw. You can see it "triggered" before the trigger was entirely severed.





A few years back. Snagged the chain while fence posting.



Couldn't find my pictures of a large wreck of a storm damaged oak that pinched and chipped rail near the tip of 36" bar.

Ron


----------



## Skeans

rwoods said:


> bitzer,
> 
> If it is a smaller leaner I do the back first but as I said I am no good with little trees. These two undergrowth trees appeared to be so balanced that you could fall them in any direction but for the canopy. Of course few trees are balanced and I predicted wrong.
> 
> Bent bars?
> 
> Last month: After an attempt of field straightening ; bar was bent a good 45 degrees. From a pinch in a supporting tree. Hit by supported tree on the way down. Supported tree was a blown over. Had to bore cut the supporting tree and trigger - too dangerous to jockey positions for a Coos with only a 20" bar on my backup saw. You can see it "triggered" before the trigger was entirely severed.
> View attachment 487371
> View attachment 487377
> View attachment 487376
> 
> 
> A few years back. Snagged the chain while fence posting.
> View attachment 487372
> 
> 
> Couldn't find my pictures of a large wreck of a storm damaged oak that pinched and chipped rail near the tip of 36" bar.
> 
> Ron


9 time out of 10 I can't field straighten a bar worth a dang I have to put them in a vice and I'm guaranteed to bend my light weight Oregon 36 damn thing bends when packing in and out. And I agree on back cutting small stuff first even if it's just to put a wedge in at a tipped angle to watch it tip up or pop out from leaving.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


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## Skeans

1270d said:


> It's been five years since our last one went. We have worked with quite a few subs in the mean time, but we havent had a log book, medical card, inspection report or flat tire. In that time
> 
> Been working with the current guys for almost two years now. Good rigs, good drivers, on time and get the job done. What more could you ask?


I know out here there's a huge shortage of trucks and drivers so you about have to run your own trucks, so many of the guys here are pushing 35 to 50 loads a day clear cutting even a mule train is dang near impossible to get for a fill let alone one a forwarder can unbunk.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


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## bitzer

rwoods said:


> bitzer,
> 
> If it is a smaller leaner I do the back first but as I said I am no good with little trees. These two undergrowth trees appeared to be so balanced that you could fall them in any direction but for the canopy. Of course few trees are balanced and I predicted wrong.
> 
> Bent bars?
> Yuri
> Last month: After an attempt of field straightening ; bar was bent a good 45 degrees. From a pinch in a supporting tree. Hit by supported tree on the way down. Supported tree was a blown over. Had to bore cut the supporting tree and trigger - too dangerous to jockey positions for a Coos with only a 20" bar on my backup saw. You can see it "triggered" before the trigger was entirely severed.
> View attachment 487371
> View attachment 487377
> View attachment 487376
> 
> 
> A few years back. Snagged the chain while fence posting.
> View attachment 487372
> 
> 
> Couldn't find my pictures of a large wreck of a storm damaged oak that pinched and chipped rail near the tip of 36" bar.
> 
> Ron




Yep when in doubt just back cut those little ones first. If it really starts to open up chase yer backcut to finish. Otherwise face, pound, go.

On hung trees like that i will put a face in the supporting tree as deep as it will let me, nip the heart from the face and then cut the near back quarter of the stump from back to front. With that much pressure on the tree you usually only need to cut half of the back out. Don't take yer time doing it tho as it cud chair. The reamaining pull wood should keep everything going away from you as you retreat. Boring stuff like that is askin for a pinch unless the tree is pretty big. 


To straighten in the woods, bore a deep enough kerf in a stump, put yer bent bar in and wail on it. If its bent more or less straight across it should go back pretty easy, even bad bends. When the bend runs on an angle it can get tricky or if the rails are folded up as well. 


Whats with the bike?


----------



## Skeans

bitzer said:


> Yep when in doubt just back cut those little ones first. If it really starts to open up chase yer backcut to finish. Otherwise face, pound, go.
> 
> On hung trees like that i will put a face in the supporting tree as deep as it will let me, nip the heart from the face and then cut the near back quarter of the stump from back to front. With that much pressure on the tree you usually only need to cut half of the back out. Don't take yer time doing it tho as it cud chair. The reamaining pull wood should keep everything going away from you as you retreat. Boring stuff like that is askin for a pinch unless the tree is pretty big.
> 
> 
> To straighten in the woods, bore a deep enough kerf in a stump, put yer bent bar in and wail on it. If its bent more or less straight across it should go back pretty easy, even bad bends. When the bend runs on an angle it can get tricky or if the rails are folded up as well.
> 
> 
> Whats with the bike?


Would you guys like a picture or two of the attachment we made for our press to work on saw bars?

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## 1270d

Skeans said:


> I know out here there's a huge shortage of trucks and drivers so you about have to run your own trucks, so many of the guys here are pushing 35 to 50 loads a day clear cutting even a mule train is dang near impossible to get for a fill let alone one a forwarder can unbunk.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk



Just a product of our different operations I guess. 

We of course have a lot more room to deck wood than you fellas out in the hills. 
99% of trucks here are self loaders truck pulling a 4 or 5 axle pup. We just deck roadside and the truckers take care of the rest. It isn't uncommon to be 40 to 60 loads ahead of the truckers.

Trucks are common here, but developing a solid relationship isn't so easy. A lot of the owner operators go storming in the summer chasing hurricanes. Not the types I want to work with.


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## rwoods

bitzer,

Bike = neighbor's trash thrown on my property. Not as bad as the leaf covered metal bed springs that I hit while bucking the main stem.

Embarrassing full disclosure on the cut. The bore cut was the "rescue" cut. The original cut was mean to go as you described. Only a conventional face idiot would decide to experiment with a Humboldt on such a dangerous tree, but alas I did. With a Humboldt, I seem to always come up short on the far side with the lower cut so as if it would make any difference (it didn't) I decided to put in the lower cut first and then the straight cut. I was watching where I thought I had gunned instead of watching the cut and seriously over cut the straight cut on the far side resulting in a nice pinch. MACs don't allow PH removal in such situations unless you sever the chain so my "rescue" options were rather limited particularly given that the new cut will be closer to my vital anatomy; thus my decision to go with the bore cut. The bore cut was made much more dangerous by reason of how deep I had made the original face (By necessity both it and the resulting hinge overlap in part the original face, but given the residential setting I couldn't just leave the trees there while I sought out mechanical help). At the risk of seizure of all my saws, I have posted below a picture which shows how badly I over cut. Hard to believe that I was being careful given the overhead risk and the tension together with the extra chair risk that white oak carries, and then let my mind drift off while making the original face cuts. There was no way I was going to stick my head in front or in back of the supporting tree to see how my cut was going, but I could (and should) have pulled the saw out and looked from a safe position instead of relying on my gunning. BTW you can see in the picture a cross where I bore cut the stump to make a vice in my field attempt to straighten the bar. I smacked it a few times with a 5# axe but I didn't wail on it. The bend was on an angle.






New topic. The area I was cutting yesterday is a dense 6 acre patch that will be cleared, which is why I was told I could cut anything. I intend to save for the owner's further consideration the straight 15"+ oaks and the few large beech trees since some loggers around here mobilize and log ground half that size. Should I save the beech? What is the minimum log diameter for oak on the small end (red and white)?

Ron


----------



## rwoods

Skeans said:


> Would you guys like a picture or two of the attachment we made for our press to work on saw bars?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


 Yes. I have access to a press. I had this bar straighten at a machine shop. Ron


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## northmanlogging

So this happened today, should have been a real nice peeler, but nooo


----------



## rwoods

NM, not up on logger lingo but I am sure you didn't mean that you wanted to peel it like a banana despite the end resemblance. Glad you are with us. Ron


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## 1270d

brushing up on your sprints north?


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## Skeans

Anyone have pictures of their spring boards?

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## Skeans

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


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## northmanlogging

thems kinda goofy but I like the concept, just a saw kerf and stuff em in.


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## northmanlogging

northmanlogging said:


> thems kinda goofy but I like the concept, just a saw kerf and stuff em in.


----------



## bitzer

rwoods said:


> bitzer,
> 
> Bike = neighbor's trash thrown on my property. Not as bad as the leaf covered metal bed springs that I hit while bucking the main stem.
> 
> Embarrassing full disclosure on the cut. The bore cut was the "rescue" cut. The original cut was mean to go as you described. Only a conventional face idiot would decide to experiment with a Humboldt on such a dangerous tree, but alas I did. With a Humboldt, I seem to always come up short on the far side with the lower cut so as if it would make any difference (it didn't) I decided to put in the lower cut first and then the straight cut. I was watching where I thought I had gunned instead of watching the cut and seriously over cut the straight cut on the far side resulting in a nice pinch. MACs don't allow PH removal in such situations unless you sever the chain so my "rescue" options were rather limited particularly given that the new cut will be closer to my vital anatomy; thus my decision to go with the bore cut. The bore cut was made much more dangerous by reason of how deep I had made the original face (By necessity both it and the resulting hinge overlap in part the original face, but given the residential setting I couldn't just leave the trees there while I sought out mechanical help). At the risk of seizure of all my saws, I have posted below a picture which shows how badly I over cut. Hard to believe that I was being careful given the overhead risk and the tension together with the extra chair risk that white oak carries, and then let my mind drift off while making the original face cuts. There was no way I was going to stick my head in front or in back of the supporting tree to see how my cut was going, but I could (and should) have pulled the saw out and looked from a safe position instead of relying on my gunning. BTW you can see in the picture a cross where I bore cut the stump to make a vice in my field attempt to straighten the bar. I smacked it a few times with a 5# axe but I didn't wail on it. The bend was on an angle.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 487444
> 
> 
> New topic. The area I was cutting yesterday is a dense 6 acre patch that will be cleared, which is why I was told I could cut anything. I intend to save for the owner's further consideration the straight 15"+ oaks and the few large beech trees since some loggers around here mobilize and log ground half that size. Should I save the beech? What is the minimum log diameter for oak on the small end (red and white)?
> 
> Ron


I'm not tryn to give ya a hard time Ron. I've been there. I'd say you got lucky as we all have in the past. You know where it went wrong. Always a conventional in those situations anyway. You need the tree to fall out as far as possible from you. Use yer hands on the bar and wail on it. I should have clarfied. Put the saw in the kerf and bend the bar way beyond what you think is reasonable and it should start to go back.


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## bitzer

Skeans said:


> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


Does that work pretty well?


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## bitzer

northmanlogging said:


> View attachment 487451
> View attachment 487452
> So this happened today, should have been a real nice peeler, but nooo


That a maple? Lightning strike as you were tipn er?


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## northmanlogging

bitzer said:


> That a maple? Lightning strike as you were tipn er?



Alder, just couldn't cut fast enough to get through it. She was snapping and popping from about bar deep.

Didn't coos or gol it cause it was mostly straight up and down... and I really needed to control it, being that it could have gone towards that really nice house...

there was also a little doug fir that was hung up in the top, but cut free to make things a little more interesting. 

hindsight being what it is, I should have taken more out of the face, and maybe gutted the middle, but the way she blew up? don't know if anything would have worked. The top stems detonated on impact as well.


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## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> Alder, just couldn't cut fast enough to get through it. She was snapping and popping from about bar deep.
> 
> Didn't coos or gol it cause it was mostly straight up and down... and I really needed to control it, being that it could have gone towards that really nice house...
> 
> there was also a little doug fir that was hung up in the top, but cut free to make things a little more interesting.
> 
> hindsight being what it is, I should have taken more out of the face, and maybe gutted the middle, but the way she blew up? don't know if anything would have worked. The top stems detonated on impact as well.


Even going deeper and gutting I still think it would of chaired up from the looks of it, you could of bored in straight up and down in a few places before your hinge as releases.

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## Skeans

bitzer said:


> Does that work pretty well?


Yes it does, I need to build a smaller one for chainsaw bars as that one is for the 3/4 harvester bars. Or build a jig with a few pieces that could be used as pushers or as clamps to straighten bars. 

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## bitzer

northmanlogging said:


> Alder, just couldn't cut fast enough to get through it. She was snapping and popping from about bar deep.
> 
> Didn't coos or gol it cause it was mostly straight up and down... and I really needed to control it, being that it could have gone towards that really nice house...
> 
> there was also a little doug fir that was hung up in the top, but cut free to make things a little more interesting.
> 
> hindsight being what it is, I should have taken more out of the face, and maybe gutted the middle, but the way she blew up? don't know if anything would have worked. The top stems detonated on impact as well.


At the first signs its going quicker than you planned, pull out and cut just the back quarter (leaving the pull side intact). Then it should pull where you need it and probably not chair. I'm guessing you tried to chase it? Usually works for me. That added pressure from another tree leaned into it must have been enough. I've definitely busted the **** out of my share.


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## Skeans

bitzer said:


> At the first signs its going quicker than you planned, pull out and cut just the back quarter (leaving the pull side intact). Then it should pull where you need it and probably not chair. I'm guessing you tried to chase it? Usually works for me. That added pressure from another tree leaned into it must have been enough. I've definitely busted the **** out of my share.


Normally an alder you have to try to out cut they flat out just like to chair out, mother nature's way at getting back at us.

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## bitzer

Skeans said:


> Normally an alder you have to try to out cut they flat out just like to chair out, mother nature's way at getting back at us.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


I've heard that from you guys out there. We have our share that like to split too. I'd like to cut one of yers for comparison.


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## rwoods

Well I am sitting here in the dark throttling my 12 volt truck trying to get enough juice to jump my 24 volt truck. Glow plugs keep sucking out all the stored juice.

Will pass the time with this post to bitzer and the rest of my on-line friends: Don't hesitate to give me a hard time - it might save my life one day. I was just musing yesterday that firewood cutting has sent me to the hospital three times in 35 years. Once was life threatening. But none were caused by doing something beyond my minimal skill level or by taking some exordinary risk beyond the time I was showing off with an old gear drive bow saw. My point is this made me think of all the dumb, foolish and unnecessary risks I have taken or created and survived unscathed, and the fact I need to take more care and pay greater attention.

Well, let's see if the old truck will crank now.

Ron


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## rwoods

Didn't crank. Ron


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## northmanlogging

Hey Ron... You may have noticed that more then a few hacks have been ran off of this page over the years...

Don't worry too much about us being nice, its a matter of how its taken more then anything, I'm sure that I've been called out at least half a dozen times, and I'm pretty sure it won't be the last.

Doing sketchy stuff and passing it off as legit versus doing sketchy stuff as an only way out and saying so are two different things.


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## Skeans

rwoods said:


> Well I am sitting here in the dark throttling my 12 volt truck trying to get enough juice to jump my 24 volt truck. Glow plugs keep sucking out all the stored juice.
> 
> Will pass the time with this post to bitzer and the rest of my on-line friends: Don't hesitate to give me a hard time - it might save my life one day. I was just musing yesterday that firewood cutting has sent me to the hospital three times in 35 years. Once was life threatening. But none were caused by doing something beyond my minimal skill level or by taking some exordinary risk beyond the time I was showing off with an old gear drive bow saw. My point is this made me think of all the dumb, foolish and unnecessary risks I have taken or created and survived unscathed, and the fact I need to take more care and pay greater attention.
> 
> Well, let's see if the old truck will crank now.
> 
> Ron


Ron I hate to ask this but do you have the cables hooked up correctly for a 12 to 24 volt jump?

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## rwoods

I think so - cables are connected to one battery only. Same way I charge them with a 12 volt charger. Ron


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## Skeans

rwoods said:


> I think so - cables are connected to one battery only. Same way I charge them with a 12 volt charger. Ron


Yep you always go to the first battery the one with the main ground. 

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## rwoods

Thanks, that is what I did but not because I knew it mattered which one. I thought you could do either just not both. Ron


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## Gologit

rwoods said:


> Well I am sitting here in the dark throttling my 12 volt truck trying to get enough juice to jump my 24 volt truck. Glow plugs keep sucking out all the stored juice.
> 
> Will pass the time with this post to bitzer and the rest of my on-line friends: Don't hesitate to give me a hard time - it might save my life one day. I was just musing yesterday that firewood cutting has sent me to the hospital three times in 35 years. Once was life threatening. But none were caused by doing something beyond my minimal skill level or by taking some exordinary risk beyond the time I was showing off with an old gear drive bow saw. My point is this made me think of all the dumb, foolish and unnecessary risks I have taken or created and survived unscathed, and the fact I need to take more care and pay greater attention.
> 
> Well, let's see if the old truck will crank now.
> 
> Ron



You do better than you think you do. Most of all and most importantly, you're thinking and learning all the time. That's good.
I'd cut with you.


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## Skeans

Some of the stuff from before lunch.

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## bitzer

Some good sized sticks in there. Processing what you can by machine? Those clumps with more than one stem can get interesting.


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## Skeans

bitzer said:


> Some good sized sticks in there. Processing what you can by machine? Those clumps with more than one stem can get interesting.


Too big for a machine it's all done by hand my 36 doesn't reach through the stuff. 

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## rwoods

$311.67 and it cranks. Both batteries were shot.



Gologit said:


> ... I'd cut with you.



After we cut a few limbs and a couple nice perches, peeled the taters and carrots, production wouldn't be high but the stew would be good.

Ron


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## bitzer

Skeans said:


> Too big for a machine it's all done by hand my 36 doesn't reach through the stuff.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


Machine assist on some then?


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## Skeans

bitzer said:


> Machine assist on some then?


Yep we put a log loader on as many as possible not worth someone getting hurt or worse killed.

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## Skeans

Not a falling pic but it's a forestry application for a sprayer boom.

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## bitzer

Skeans said:


> Yep we put a log loader on as many as possible not worth someone getting hurt or worse killed.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


I've should've known by the high cab, obviously I'm not around the big equipment a lot. The guy in the cab has cut some blowdown I'll bet.


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## Cfaller

Skeans said:


> Anyone have pictures of their spring boards?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk





If I built another one I would add some angle iron to the front and carry it down the side a little. This would take some of the spring out of it. If you have a good notch in the tree you can hop up on the board and move it around some by pulling it with the toe of your corks.


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## bitzer

Thats cool. I like the old bar tip. I've got plenty them layin around.


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## FSburt

Some cutting work around a friends house today. Cedar was one the worst I have cut on for clogging up the bar and chain with pitch and bark had to end up cutting all the bark off with my little saw to finish the backcut.


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## Woos31

Skeans said:


> Not a falling pic but it's a forestry application for a sprayer boom.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


Aweful purdy bead Skeans that'll be plenty stout when you're all through


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## northmanlogging

ran into an old friend today...


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## Woos31

northmanlogging said:


> ran into an old friend today...
> 
> View attachment 492680


Dashin' lookin fellar right there and I bet he likes your ideas abouts things too


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## HuskStihl

northmanlogging said:


> ran into an old friend today...
> 
> View attachment 492680


Even that is giant, and somewhat terrifying!


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## rwoods

I’m trespassing over here in the falling thread to post proof of the blind squirrel theory of falling.

Now I know most of you can probably do this blindfolded on a windy day but it made a good ending to a good day consisting of mostly pulling small stems with the little Deere, few tanks of bucking and five or so falls. I cut an 18” hickory that had too many bends for me to figure the lean so I said what the heck let’s see if I can put it where I want – I picked one of my many high stumps as a target .

Result:






Did you see my stump? Look again just beyond the last crossed stem.

Still can't see it? Well before you double up your readers, check this photo:


 Ron


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## 1270d

Nice shot


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## northmanlogging

rwoods said:


> I’m trespassing over here in the falling thread to post proof of the blind squirrel theory of falling.
> 
> Now I know most of you can probably do this blindfolded on a windy day but it made a good ending to a good day consisting of mostly pulling small stems with the little Deere, few tanks of bucking and five or so falls. I cut an 18” hickory that had too many bends for me to figure the lean so I said what the heck let’s see if I can put it where I want – I picked one of my many high stumps as a target .
> 
> Result:
> 
> View attachment 492984
> View attachment 492985
> View attachment 492986
> 
> 
> Did you see my stump? Look again just beyond the last crossed stem.
> 
> Still can't see it? Well before you double up your readers, check this photo:
> 
> View attachment 492989
> Ron



its almost like you know what yer doing...


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## rwoods

1270d said:


> Nice shot





northmanlogging said:


> its almost like you know what yer doing...



Thanks. 

To keep matters in context, let me share another true story - more than half my life ago, I owned a well worn Browning 9mm High Power with fixed sights. On a one shot challenge from my brother I shot a daytime skunk with it at 117 yards. A few years later, same deal - I hit a 6" rock at 100 yards. Later I traded it. Why? Those shots were just flukes - ordinarily with that pistol, I had difficulty keeping a clip load within a paper plate at 25 feet. Not saying that I am not a decent shot nor a fair firewood hack - just the fall is not representative. 

With that said, I am getting better with practice and all the useful stuff discussed around here. Still wouldn't make a good logger - look at that fiber pull. And I forgot to trim it. 

Ron


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## northmanlogging

Meh fiber pull...

Biggest thing I learned that helps with aim or hitting your lay, just slow down.

taking 10-30 seconds to really gun yer cut makes life so much easier.


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## bitzer

Ron that'll make saw logs ya know! You posted a cherry a week or so ago that would too. Trim that fiber off the stump tho! I have a fear of tripping and impaling myself on the stump whiskers. Otherwise it feels damn good when something goes yer way!


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## rwoods

Bitzer, I know about as much about saw logs as a gnat. On the cherry, if they don't have a straight of at least 8' on 12" and up I cut them. However, we didn't make firewood of them, we gave the main stems to a guy with a band sawmill as he said for his personal use he could go as short as 4'. Pulling them out is what took a lot of my time yesterday. That hickory I had left previously, but after reading our NC forestry plan for my dad's old farm. I reconsider the tree as being of little commercial value given the bends and the species. Would make a lot of hoe handles though.

Now that I am more familiar with the site, to my ignorant eye it looks to have only a dozen or so nice straight oaks and hickories - the rest is all poplar; all of which we are leaving unless it in in our way.

I asked earlier but got no reply, generally what is the smallest diameter that would constitute a hardwood saw log?

Thanks, Ron


----------



## bitzer

With cherry my mill will take down to 9". Most other species 10". 12" to make a tie. These are all small ends obviously. Hickory is a middle of the road species here. Maybe $4-500 per mbf for number ones. Cherry is more like $7-800 for ones. Its looks like you could have gotten some lengths out of that hickory and cherry. I bet there is a couple of tens, maybe tweleves to the first bend in the hickory and maybe a tie log or number 3 sawlog after that. You'd be surprised when you cut a twisted stem into short logs they can actually make decent sawlogs. If you buck em in the right places of course. Just givin you a heads up. Don't want to see you get bitched at for taking merch wood.


----------



## rwoods

Bitzer, I took a little inventory today. Of course I don't know what I am doing, but for what it is worth.

Not counting the wasted 18" on the stump, the hickory has just over 8' before the first "bend" (1st pic.). If that bend doesn't count then you have 12' from butt to the next bend (2nd pic.). Then you are into frequent bends and hundreds of woodpecker holes. I have on the ground another small straight hickory that is 12" at 12', after that it is crooked. Should I save and set aside any?





How about beech? I thought they were pretty much worthless. I have on the ground a straight 14' beech that is 13" on the small end. Also I left standing for now this 28"dbh beech:




Lastly, I have what I believe to be an elm which has the prettiest 10' log of the bunch at 26", but I thought elm was pretty much worthless as well.





I should have asked first, how much are your consulting fees? Too bad Treeslayer doesn't hang around here any longer so I could get competitive bids for eastern hardwood advice.

Ron


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## bitzer

Ron I guess it depends on the agreement you have. I know if showed up to a job and some of the sawtimber was cut that was supposed to be there I'd be pist. It has happened to me before. That Hickory will make logs. You could stretch that first log to a 10. Depends on how far to that next bad bend if you can make two logs there. If theres not chance of a second log than stretch it to 12. They can saw some long boards out of one side and shorter as they get closer to the sweep. Some jobs the trees are stick straight and I can cut whatever lengths I need and some jobs its all 8s and 10s because of the bends and sweeps. The beech does make sawlogs and ties, but doesn't pay a whole lot. Less than the hickory. The last tree is an ash and pays better than hickory here. Individually they are not worth a lot, but in terms of the project they will add up. I found Mike on another site. He said he can't load this one anymore. The woods I'm cutting right now is Hard maple, beech, ash, hickory, oak, pretty much in that order for volume. They will take all the sawlogs. Nothing huge. Average maybe 16" dbh. Shorter trees too. Bends, sweeps. Not great timber, but a clearcut this time of year means I can work. I take what I can get when I can rut it up. Looks pretty similar to what you've got there. Lots of pulpwood.


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## rwoods

Thanks. I was told to cut anything we wanted. I took it upon myself to save the trees I thought were marketable and to leave high stumps for the excavators. The entire site is going to be leveled for the construction of a Nissan dealership. 

Believe it or not, I hate seeing straight logs cut into firewood. 

So my elm is an ash. First few feet are really pretty.

Ron


----------



## bitzer

What if you cut everything, sold the logs, and give the landowners their fair share? It sounds like there isn't a whole lot there and it might be tuff to get a crew in there to cut whats left. I can walk you thru some of the bucking and how to market the logs. Also unless someone specifically asked for high stumps I wouldn't waste the wood. Any clearing I've ever done i cut the trees at normal stump heights. If using an excavator or backhoe to pop stumps pulling on the stump itself is rough on the bucket. If using a frost tooth you don't get much surface area to pulll on. I would dig around the stump to break the roots and then pop from underneath. Higher stumps can be in the way in that scenario.


----------



## northmanlogging

I've had a few jobs where they wanted fairly high stumps to assist in stump pulling...

Which in reality is kind of a misnomer since like Bitz said, anymore folks are going to dig out the roots and pop em from below, not many use a winch to drag stumps out anymore, and even dozers are going away for this work.

Gopher it Ron, rent a dozer for a couple days to assist in the skidding, or use an old tractor if the ground is flat, see what happens.


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## Gypo Logger

I never did like the high stump idea. Some land clearing contractors specify high stumps, because they can charge more trips to the landfill site.


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## 1270d

you cant just up and change yer name gyppo???


----------



## Gypo Logger

1270d said:


> you cant just up and change yer name gyppo???


Lol, I didn't do it, admin did. Does it become me?


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## Skeans

I've done both and personally hate high stumps they throw me off until it's big stuff.

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## Woos31

Timber Tool said:


> Lol, I didn't do it, admin did. Does it become me?


Musta been too offensive eh? ( just kidding admin people's, don't go puttin me on the naughty list I'm just jokin in good fun) Had me goin for a second too when I got the alert lol. I could only imagine the handle they'd send for me haha


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## Woos31

Oh yeah..........high stumps suck, I carry the motion with the other fellers


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## Gypo Logger




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## Woos31

Timber Tool said:


> View attachment 495153


Cool photo sir..........that looks like the pondos (ponderosa pines) and scenery here around central oregon


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## Gypo Logger

Woos31 said:


> Cool photo sir..........that looks like the pondos (ponderosa pines) and scenery here around central oregon


Ya, I was calling Yellow pine too, but was wondering if it might have been the Snowball Mountains north of Flagstaff.


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## Gypo Logger

Hort Wanker!

Sitka Spruce from Haines Alaska.


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## Woos31

Timber Tool said:


> Ya, I was calling Yellow pine too, but was wondering if it might have been the Snowball Mountains north of Flagstaff.


Yessir very well could be, I've heard tell of some giant pine stands around those southwest states in Arizona and New Mexico


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## Gypo Logger

Woos31 said:


> Yessir very well could be, I've heard tell of some giant pine stands around those southwest states in Arizona and New Mexico


I don't have a copy anymore, but Nat Geo did an arcticle about yellow pine logging in Arizona.
I drove thru there in 03 and visited every saw shop I found.
The ex GF even bought me a 2100 at a pawn shop in Winslow Arizona.
You should have seen what she bought me in El Paso! Lol.


----------



## 1270d

Timber Tool said:


> Ya, I was calling Yellow pine too, but was wondering if it might have been the Snowball Mountains north of Flagstaff.



Snowbowl ski area? San Fransisco peaks? Haven't heard if the snowball mtns


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## Gypo Logger

Maybe I was thinking of Snowflake AZ.,where that 1975 UFO thing happened.


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## bitzer

Kind of boogered up that second kerf so you can't see it as well. Not really practical for production, but sure is fun!


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## Woos31

bitzer said:


> Kind of boogered up that second kerf so you can't see it as well. Not really practical for production, but sure is fun!



Nicely done Bitzer!


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## bitzer

Woos31 said:


> Nicely done Bitzer!


Thank you sir!


----------



## SliverPicker

Timber Tool said:


> You should have seen what she bought me in El Paso! Lol.



Did a single shot of penicillin clear that up or did it take several? 

Great photo by the way!


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## Woos31

bitzer said:


> Thank you sir!


I had a good one last week I wish I had taken a picture of, wind damaged tree that had half the forked top blown out last winter and the remaining top had about a 4 ft crack down the middle of what would've been the crotch of the fork.....hangin over the road. So I faced up a sizwheel on the side under the top so when it swung and pulled the top would set back against the crack instead of the other way where the top weight would pull the crack open and encourage a fold over on top of the dumb guy. Especially since I had to set a couple wedges to help it lift and swing a touch, get the top jared around and be test driving the dunce cap again lol


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## northmanlogging

Second to last one of the day... nevermind the shiney blue stuff, that was doctored...


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## Woos31

northmanlogging said:


> Second to last one of the day... nevermind the shiney blue stuff, that was doctored...



I wonder if them folks knows that sasquatch was sumpin the hemi's in their back yard  Nice job Northman, watching you blast them wedges with your fallin axe makes me think you could scare the begeesus outta softball stitchin and the person slow pitchin to ya! Nice video boss


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## northmanlogging

once I grew into my size and figured out to mostly let go with the right hand... if I connected it was a homer... but baseball is boring think I'd rather watch astro turf fade.

Way back in the P.E. we had these goofy soft rubber soft balls that we would play with, if you hit them too hard they would potato on ya and do some weird ****, so ya had to be careful how hard you hit them, of course this was in Darrington, so if you did hit a homer it was like 300 yards to the fence, and then you stood the chance of getting ate by bears, stumbling into an old still, or kidnapped by large hairy things and sold on the black market under the tag yokel.


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## Scablands

northmanlogging said:


> Second to last one of the day... nevermind the shiney blue stuff, that was doctored...




Way to beat the heck outta that wedge! 

Just out of curiosity, how are you getting those logs out? You have your own truck and loader or do you hire that out?


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## Woos31

northmanlogging said:


> once I grew into my size and figured out to mostly let go with the right hand... if I connected it was a homer... but baseball is boring think I'd rather watch astro turf fade.
> 
> Way back in the P.E. we had these goofy soft rubber soft balls that we would play with, if you hit them too hard they would potato on ya and do some weird ****, so ya had to be careful how hard you hit them, of course this was in Darrington, so if you did hit a homer it was like 300 yards to the fence, and then you stood the chance of getting ate by bears, stumbling into an old still, or kidnapped by large hairy things and sold on the black market under the tag yokel.


No chit about the rubber softball, we used them in P.E. also and the teacher would really whip backspin into the slow pitch so when a guy really clobbered it the results we're quite interesting even more so than smackin na hell out of it in a normal pitch and gettin the potato effect. No bears or boogie mans, just codfodgin rattlesnakes!! Someone said they saw a cougar one time by the school but there wasn't hardly anyone without a rifle around town or that even came to the school so I'm not buyin that one


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## northmanlogging

Scablands said:


> Way to beat the heck outta that wedge!
> 
> Just out of curiosity, how are you getting those logs out? You have your own truck and loader or do you hire that out?



hire out to self loaders.

No loader as yet, though an excavator is on the short list, just need money (there is a go fund me for northman logging... just sayin)

For now the trucking is way to expensive for what I do, someone told me once that you can go logging or you can go trucking, I figure I like logging better...

TMI moment....

To own a truck you need a CDL, $5000 for the class and $100 or more to take the test. Then you need insurance, likely in the neighborhood of $500-1000
a month, every month. Then you need to pay tonnage, at around $1000 a month. This is all before the first load of logs gets loaded or Hel even delivered.

Then you have tires 18-20+ at $500 a piece, about every year or 2, Fuel 5-6 miles a gallon, probably less (multiply that by a likely 300 miles a day)... a driver who's going to want 30 something an hour, plus medical, dental, and a vacation, so more like 45 an hour...

Meanwhile, I can manage 1 load a week... sometimes in good timber 2... once I even got 3 loads all by my lonesome...


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## Scablands

northmanlogging said:


> hire out to self loaders.
> 
> No loader as yet, though an excavator is on the short list, just need money (there is a go fund me for northman logging... just sayin)
> 
> For now the trucking is way to expensive for what I do, someone told me once that you can go logging or you can go trucking, I figure I like logging better...


I'd choose logging over trucking any day.


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## Woos31

northmanlogging said:


> hire out to self loaders.
> 
> No loader as yet, though an excavator is on the short list, just need money (there is a go fund me for northman logging... just sayin)
> 
> For now the trucking is way to expensive for what I do, someone told me once that you can go logging or you can go trucking, I figure I like logging better...
> 
> TMI moment....
> 
> To own a truck you need a CDL, $5000 for the class and $100 or more to take the test. Then you need insurance, likely in the neighborhood of $500-1000
> a month, every month. Then you need to pay tonnage, at around $1000 a month. This is all before the first load of logs gets loaded or Hel even delivered.
> 
> Then you have tires 18-20+ at $500 a piece, about every year or 2, Fuel 5-6 miles a gallon, probably less (multiply that by a likely 300 miles a day)... a driver who's going to want 30 something an hour, plus medical, dental, and a vacation, so more like 45 an hour...
> 
> Meanwhile, I can manage 1 load a week... sometimes in good timber 2... once I even got 3 loads all by my lonesome...


And that's if the truck is running not broke down, tires keep the air in them vs flat or blown, then you get to drive it for 10-15 hours a day if you get called for a haul sometimes more hours, then you might get to work on it all night just to be able to run the next day............ I'd take the loggin too even though I like truckin once in awhile but I like cutting and physically working better


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## Skeans

Woos31 said:


> And that's if the truck is running not broke down, tires keep the air in them vs flat or blown, then you get to drive it for 10-15 hours a day if you get called for a haul sometimes more hours, then you might get to work on it all night just to be able to run the next day............ I'd take the loggin too even though I like truckin once in awhile but I like cutting and physically working better


No issues over here needing trucks there's always a shortage. 500 might be virgin steer tires but everything else can be caps, mileage with our two 3406E trucks were around 6 to 7. Now the miles you run can vary we've ran close to 300 one way but I know for that wood it pays out vs taking them locally.

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## northmanlogging

Little jack action for ya all


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## northmanlogging

Skeans said:


> No issues over here needing trucks there's always a shortage. 500 might be virgin steer tires but everything else can be caps, mileage with our two 3406E trucks were around 6 to 7. Now the miles you run can vary we've ran close to 300 one way but I know for that wood it pays out vs taking them locally.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk




I figure when I'm to old and broken for active falling and what not, I'll get me a self loader or maybe a straight truck, but until then... I'm gonna be in the woods.

Though eventually once I have an excavator I'm going to want to get a larger dump truck and trailer, so I won't be dependent on other folks for hauling it. That and folks are really hurting for dump trucks too. Hel they are hurting for any kind of big truck right now. something like 50-100,00 drivers are needed this year in the US


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## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> Little jack action for ya all



Looks good, even though you're using a bottle like I am I still throw the jack in the seat and back cut before I start on my face.

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## northmanlogging

if she was leanin a harder I probably would have cut the back first, it was mostly limb heavy to the right, and the neighbors house... 

Mostly I use the jack as a labor saver on the bigguns, I have 2 of em, and I've only needed both on a handful of trees.


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## Woos31

Skeans said:


> No issues over here needing trucks there's always a shortage. 500 might be virgin steer tires but everything else can be caps, mileage with our two 3406E trucks were around 6 to 7. Now the miles you run can vary we've ran close to 300 one way but I know for that wood it pays out vs taking them locally.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


10-4 Skeans, good to know there's still plenty of work for trucks. Its funny cuz the drivers anytime you talk to them they act like their starving to death and can't make a dime, workin for free, I'm sure you've heard all the lines. 
I really like the E model cat motors too, they're runnin mothers! A good friend of mine has an E in the first log truck he bought and gets 7-8 on fuel at 1200 dyno proven ponies to the rubber. He got a 74 A-model KW long hood last spring, swapped a C-15 into it that's crankin out 1300 to the rubber which is craziness but their his so it's always good conversation about log trucks when he's around. Have a good one out there Skeans


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## 1270d

We had a guy trucking for a while that said he was putting close to a thousand to the drives. He said with sixty ton on it was real easy to pop a u joint if too much pedal was applied.


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## Skeans

Any of you guys seen one of these?
http://www.treeplanters.org/

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## 1270d

Mead used those here 30 years ago or more. The newest foresters were the ones who operated them. The guys I know that ran them said it was like being a tennis ball in a dryer. All the planting is done by traveling hand crews now.


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## chucker

1270d said:


> Mead used those here 30 years ago or more. The newest foresters were the ones who operated them. The guys I know that ran them said it was like being a tennis ball in a dryer. All the planting is done by traveling hand crews now.


there's a travelers camp just south of akeley, mn/ in the badoura state forest nursery, they started filtering in already....


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## Skeans

Some stuff from work and a little after work fun.

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## Skeans

Newest toy showed up tonight an 80 amp plasma cutter








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## Skeans

Cutting some long logs for a grapple cat.

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## Woos31

Skeans said:


> Cutting some long logs for a grapple cat.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk



Nice video skeans, cool to see a different style setup on the head vs a waratah or the like. Seems like everyone has a waratah head, which are very good but not everyone can afford them. So again cool to see other outfits hangin off the stick lol. Have a good weekend and safe cuttin boss


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## Skeans

Woos31 said:


> Nice video skeans, cool to see a different style setup on the head vs a waratah or the like. Seems like everyone has a waratah head, which are very good but not everyone can afford them. So again cool to see other outfits hangin off the stick lol. Have a good weekend and safe cuttin boss


Thank you we have a dangle Fabtek 240 head as well for landing work and cutting here and there. Waratah and the rest of those head are nice and work good but for what we do we feel the controlled style is the best fit for doing everything plus a fabtek is so simple to work on.

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## Woos31

Skeans said:


> Thank you we have a dangle Fabtek 240 head as well for landing work and cutting here and there. Waratah and the rest of those head are nice and work good but for what we do we feel the controlled style is the best fit for doing everything plus a fabtek is so simple to work on.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


That's a big plus for simplicity and serviceability. You guys cut with them mochines very much or try to hand fall mostly? Which do you find more work looking at it as a mechanical ground job start to finish or you like to go in and cut then skid everything to your dangle head machine. I saw the forwarder (I think anyway) in the pic of your quad, you probably do all the above, then forward shorts to the road? Not trying to pry, just interesting to me learning everyone's points of view and what works for them and why. My cousin is set up like you guys with a dozer which has a drumline, skidder with drumline, shovel like you guys have got, and about 5 years ago bought a zero turn komatsu with a danglehead waratah. Him and one other cousin run the show on private ground only and do other odd stuff between jobs even build houses


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## Skeans

Woos31 said:


> That's a big plus for simplicity and serviceability. You guys cut with them mochines very much or try to hand fall mostly? Which do you find more work looking at it as a mechanical ground job start to finish or you like to go in and cut then skid everything to your dangle head machine. I saw the forwarder (I think anyway) in the pic of your quad, you probably do all the above, then forward shorts to the road? Not trying to pry, just interesting to me learning everyone's points of view and what works for them and why. My cousin is set up like you guys with a dozer which has a drumline, skidder with drumline, shovel like you guys have got, and about 5 years ago bought a zero turn komatsu with a danglehead waratah. Him and one other cousin run the show on private ground only and do other odd stuff between jobs even build houses


It really depends on the job and size of timber we're set up to do all the above but mainly we do CTL thinning of short lengths of 20 ft or so. The dangle we don't hardly use other then doing some clean up here and there but we do try to as much mechanical cutting as possible for safety. The processing we really try to do all of it in the brush for a cleaner landing and more material is left in the brush to break down. Equipment line up D7F, D4H track skidder with a fixed grapple, SK200 Kobelco, 135 high walker zero turn Kobelco log loader, cat 320 with Fabtek 240, Timberjack 1210B, Deere 653E with Fabtek 2000 4 roller head.

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## Woos31

Skeans said:


> It really depends on the job and size of timber we're set up to do all the above but mainly we do CTL thinning of short lengths of 20 ft or so. The dangle we don't hardly use other then doing some clean up here and there but we do try to as much mechanical cutting as possible for safety. The processing we really try to do all of it in the brush for a cleaner landing and more material is left in the brush to break down. Equipment line up D7F, D4H track skidder with a fixed grapple, SK200 Kobelco, 135 high walker zero turn Kobelco log loader, cat 320 with Fabtek 240, Timberjack 1210B, Deere 653E with Fabtek 2000 4 roller head.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


Very cool sir and Thank you for sharing your insight, I know sometimes asking a guys program can come acrossed intrusive but I appreciate it. I enjoy learning about how guys handle the woods different. I like your idea of leaving the slash where it belongs for the trees


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## Skeans

Woos31 said:


> Very cool sir and Thank you for sharing your insight, I know sometimes asking a guys program can come acrossed intrusive but I appreciate it. I enjoy learning about how guys handle the woods different. I like your idea of leaving the slash where it belongs for the trees


Another benefit to leaving slash in the brush or in a clear cut is it helps with ruts as well or compaction in the long run. And it's no issue it won't work everyone or every job but it fits most of our needs for almost 16k hours and over 20 years of use.

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## Woos31

Skeans said:


> Another benefit to leaving slash in the brush or in a clear cut is it helps with ruts as well or compaction in the long run. And it's no issue it won't work everyone or every job but it fits most of our needs for almost 16k hours and over 20 years of use.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


Right on man like you said if it works.......don't fix it. Probably helps a clear cut as far as errossion sake after lifting all shade out and all the rain hits the ground instead of trees? Well probably only on units you wouldn't wanna have your machine in would a lot of soil errossion take place. I dunno lol, I'll shut it now haha. Safe woods workin sir


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## 1270d




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## 1270d

Nice vid Skeans. Do you have any of processing bigger timber? 

I'm going to the Timberpro factory tomorrow to check out our new buncher and tour the place. If there is any of the timberheads there I could snap some pics for you.


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## Skeans

1270d said:


> Nice vid Skeans. Do you have any of processing bigger timber?
> 
> I'm going to the Timberpro factory tomorrow to check out our new buncher and tour the place. If there is any of the timberheads there I could snap some pics for you.


I don't I did all if it I could the day before I shot that video. Are you guys going with a 735?

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## hseII

northmanlogging said:


> if she was leanin a harder I probably would have cut the back first, it was mostly limb heavy to the right, and the neighbors house...
> 
> Mostly I use the jack as a labor saver on the bigguns, I have 2 of em, and I've only needed both on a handful of trees.


What kind of jacks do you use?


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## 1270d

No, 725. Company has been running the 425 size timbco for over 20 years and the 725 is the same(ish) size. 735 has a bit heavier undercarriage but otherwise is the same machine. The extra cost of the 735 is the same amount extra that it would cost to put new socks and shoes on the 725. 

Our operator is excited to switch from his 180 HP timbco to the 300 hp timber pro.


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## rwoods

Trespassing here again - too many days and no hand falling pictures. So here are some more high stumps for you guys made with a dull chain. Both are two small white oaks I cut and wedged this evening in my yard. Both had slight leans towards the house. Put the first one right in my firewood spot (Handy as I burned every stick I had this past winter). Second one I used a little too much english (I don't know the correct lingo for intentionally making the hinge triangular in thickness - I notice that I did it in height as well but that was not intentional) and although it landed where I wanted, it caught some canopy of a save tree creating a small widow maker for me to deal with later. Following in part advice received here, I put in most of the back cut first using the midget wedge to hold the kerf open on both trees as I am not comfortable enough with my face cutting to set the hinge thickness from the front. First tree was just under 20" bar length at the cut. Second tree was an equal amount over. Stump shots are posted so I can learn some more from you.

1st Tree





2nd Tree





Looking out the window. As the truck mirror says "Objects are closer than they appear."



Despite its bark loss, the second tree was healthier than I was expecting. Now I have a 24 foot log to choose between keeping or burning.

Ron


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## northmanlogging

looks good to me, little high on the 2nd, and the pic makes em look a little crooked... but its mostly the pic I think.

Bout the only thing I can say is when boring the heart, try and keep boths sides of the hinge wood equal, unles you fully intend to make one side smaller.


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## rwoods

First time cutting out the center from the back cut. Hopefully I will get better at it. 

Thanks, Ron


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## northmanlogging

hseII said:


> What kind of jacks do you use?



Sorry somehow didn't see this...

couple of SLowes, or Homegyppo 25 ton bottle jacks, with a piece of plate steel on top to distribute the load, think its 3/8's 2"x3" ish, had some schedule 80 pipe that happened to fit real nice around the ram to keep the plates in line. thicker plate would be bettererrer


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## northmanlogging

celebrating earth day...


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## Woos31

northmanlogging said:


> celebrating earth day...



Nice video Northman, grooming the earth on earth day.......... don't get no better 
n-at! Safe cuttin pard


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## Skeans

Something for the wives and girlfriends of all of us God bless them and God bless everyone for going home safe.

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## Woos31

Skeans said:


> Something for the wives and girlfriends of all of us God bless them and God bless everyone for going home safe.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


That's darned cool Skeans, amen


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## northmanlogging

another day at the office


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## bitzer

Nice videos Matt. You quit that day job yet?


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## northmanlogging

nope... need to pad my saving first


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## HuskStihl

rwoods said:


> First time cutting out the center from the back cut. Hopefully I will get better at it.
> 
> Thanks, Ron


That was a pocket for the wedge, wasn't it?


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## rwoods

HuskStihl said:


> That was a pocket for the wedge, wasn't it?



Nope. Just cut the heart out to lower the chance of a chair once I got the stem moving. I have made wedge slots on smaller stems from both the front and the back with plunge/bore cuts and I have nipped at the heart from the face cut before but this was my first time doing it as part of the back cut. Ron


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## Diamond dude

I snapped this today, guy was clearing trees...... blew my mind.


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## rwoods

For those who advocate routine bore cutting (likely few to none here), it would seem to me that this method if executed properly would be safer (i.e. more controlled) than leaving a trigger.  

I also see from the video that my firewood methods of handling hung trees are all wrong. I should have watched it before this back in 2014. 




I also just watched a Jonsered video on "Complicated Cuts"; seems anything complicated is addressed simply "leave it to a professional." Corporate lawyer must have edited it. 

Ron


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## Scablands

rwoods said:


> For those who advocate routine bore cutting (likely few to none here), it would seem to me that this method if executed properly would be safer (i.e. more controlled) than leaving a trigger.
> Ron




This episode of _Falling Tiny Trees Made Stupidly Complex_ brought to you by the British Empire.


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## rwoods

Scablands said:


> This episode of Falling Tiny Trees Made Stupidly Complex brought to you by the British Empire.



I thought the mainland countries had an exclusive on complexities. Ron


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## northmanlogging

So a half coos then? Only excessively complex and a little bit overthought...

I do like the whole foot placement thing though. Normally I like to square myself up before making a face cut.


----------



## Scablands

rwoods said:


> I thought the mainland countries had an exclusive on complexities. Ron


That video just gave made Britain the Grand Champeons.


----------



## rwoods

More like a 2/3 coos or some odd thing. I thought "tree surgeon" came from selectively removing dead limbs, etc., but watching these European videos with all the deft cuts makes me think otherwise. 

I'll stick with my simple firewood ways and longer bar approach. And wedges instead of pry bars.

Ron


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## Gologit

rwoods said:


> I thought the mainland countries had an exclusive on complexities. Ron



Apparently not.

Do you think that maybe, just maybe, a good Humboldt face, a back cut just a tad higher than the face with a tapered hinge, and some wedges would have jumped that tree off the stump with enough force to keep it from hanging up?

One thing for sure, it would have been faster.

I keep thinking of what the bullbuck would say if he saw a guy cutting like that.


----------



## Gologit

rwoods said:


> I'll stick with my simple firewood ways and longer bar approach. And wedges instead of pry bars.
> 
> Ron



Good plan. It sure beats dancing around like a monkey trying to **** a football.


----------



## northmanlogging

Gologit said:


> Apparently not.
> 
> Do you think that maybe, just maybe, a good Humboldt face, a back cut just a tad higher than the face with a tapered hinge, and some wedges would have jumped that tree off the stump with enough force to keep it from hanging up?
> 
> One thing for sure, it would have been faster.
> 
> I keep thinking of what the bullbuck would say if he saw a guy cutting like that.



Or maybe just gunning it a little to the left? Or a healthy step dutch get er to really skip off?


----------



## northmanlogging

Of course then they couldn't make a video of all their clever ways of getting a hung tree down... Peavey never werks there by the way. Sometimes trimming the hold wood helps, more often then not just getting a machine or a some sort of winch and dragging the butt off the stump is the only way.


----------



## rwoods

I posted this video to question why those who insist on routine bore cuts don't use this method to eliminate the trigger. Maybe a bore cutter will pipe up and say a trigger release would have given the stem more initial velocity thus lessening the chance of hanging. 

Maybe this tree hung-up due to the angle cut creating a longer hinge on the left side which slowed the fall. Or intentionally hung for the purpose of making the video.

I'm sure with practice one could become proficient at this "split level" falling but why? And how could it ever be as productive as the method Gologit described. It also looks like it would delay any intentional turning of the tree to the side of the final angle cut as the angle piece would seem to prevent the stem from turning in that direction until it cleared the stump or broke off. Maybe the longer hinge on that side would counterbalance the delay - who knows. The only real merit I saw with this cut was the ability to get your wedge in a small tree and protect it from a saw strike. 

I know the Euro videos seen to always feature small trees but nonetheless the men must be a lot stronger than me if they are able to roll these trees with those short pry bars. Hanging up small trees is almost second nature to me. If I knew a quicker heavy machine-less method than fence posting to get them un-hung I would be all over it. 

Personally I like Gologit's approach in his falling video - he just walks over and cuts the tree down - no dinking around.

Ron

PS Did anyone else note the buttress paring was stated to be for a clear escape path not because they like to run short bars? Look to me that the tripping hazard remained and was less obvious after the pruning.


----------



## Gologit

http://vid691.photobucket.com/albums/vv277/gologit/video/P1290018.mp4

Ron, is this the video you mentioned? It wasn't anything special, just another tree, but it shows what I mentioned about jumping the tree off of the stump. There was some potential for this one to hang up and I wanted it to hit the ground hard.


----------



## rwoods

Nope. Hadn't seen this one before. But it is the same MO.

Why didn't you nip and cut, walk around the tree 3 times and then stab it?

Also why's that guide bar more than twice as long as the euro?

And where's your pry bar?

Maybe this helps explain your longevity in a dangerous profession.

Ron


----------



## Gologit

I guess I could have done all that but I was taught differently. The idea was to always put as much wood on the ground...safely...as you could in a day. The old timers that I learned from were like pool players, always thinking several shots ahead and setting things up accordingly. They planned their work and they were very efficient. I was lucky to have people like that schooling me when I started out.
Most of them are long gone now but I sure wish I could show them a video like the one you posted. They always enjoyed a good laugh.
The bar was a 36" because that was all I usually ran unless I put on something longer. The day the video was taken I was into mostly small timber so a 36 did the job. Saves a lot of monkey-motion.
A pry bar? I have a couple around somewhere. They're handy for putting a track back on a Cat or maybe fixing a jammed cable on a skidding winch.


----------



## Skeans

Gologit said:


> I guess I could have done all that but I was taught differently. The idea was to always put as much wood on the ground...safely...as you could in a day. The old timers that I learned from were like pool players, always thinking several shots ahead and setting things up accordingly. They planned their work and they were very efficient. I was lucky to have people like that schooling me when I started out.
> Most of them are long gone now but I sure wish I could show them a video like the one you posted. They always enjoyed a good laugh.
> The bar was a 36" because that was all I usually ran unless I put on something longer. The day the video was taken I was into mostly small timber so a 36 did the job. Saves a lot of monkey-motion.
> A pry bar? I have a couple around somewhere. They're handy for putting a track back on a Cat or maybe fixing a jammed cable on a skidding winch.


I was taught the same as well as to save the wood out unlike what you see now. I will say I run a 32" bar as much as possible so there's lots of times I don't see the tip but I was taught to always start from where you started your face and walk a kerf over to the far side and then come back. Now the pry bar I agree it's a mechanics tool with its place but no place in a tree, could imagine trying to bar over a 5' butt by 36' or 40' long you'd blow your balls out. Sorry Bob most of this is at Ron.

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## Skeans

rwoods said:


> Nope. Hadn't seen this one before. But it is the same MO.
> 
> Why didn't you nip and cut, walk around the tree 3 times and then stab it?
> 
> Also why's that guide bar more than twice as long as the euro?
> 
> And where's your pry bar?
> 
> Maybe this helps explain your longevity in a dangerous profession.
> 
> Ron


Ron look above most of this is answered, only one I didn't answer is the bar length the less moving you have to do from one side to the other the less dangerous and monkeying around you have to do. Also remember we have larger wood out here as well as our lengths are longer then hardwood areas.

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## Skeans

Here's some of the bigger wood not some of the biggest we can do with this machine or the head. 





This is a chain catcher for these heads that had 20 years of derails and had been grooved out pretty well with many beads on ac and almost smoking my tig torch with tons of heat into the block it's built up again.

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## rwoods

Skeans, that machine head is all wrong. It needs a shorter bar, a plunge and tilt mechanism and a stem rotator. It seems awful noisy to be solar powered - is it out of adjustment? I will say that it does seem to hover well. 

The 21st century where PC rules and common sense doesn't.

Ron


----------



## Woos31

Skeans said:


> Here's some of the bigger wood not some of the biggest we can do with this machine or the head.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a chain catcher for these heads that had 20 years of derails and had been grooved out pretty well with many beads on ac and almost smoking my tig torch with tons of heat into the block it's built up again.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk



Good work skeans on both projects


----------



## Skeans

rwoods said:


> Skeans, that machine head is all wrong. It needs a shorter bar, a plunge and tilt mechanism and a stem rotator. It seems awful noisy to be solar powered - is it out of adjustment? I will say that it does seem to hover well.
> 
> The 21st century where PC rules and common sense doesn't.
> 
> Ron


Lol its a nice simple machine and easy to run as well as keep going so no solar here especially with PNW weather.

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## rwoods

I guess they don't make a GOL version. Ron


----------



## bitzer

That guy would **** himself if he came to cut with 
Me for a morning. 

On hard leaners I cut one half the back then the other. Sometimes the other half never gets cut if it's leaning hard enough. Poppin stumps.


----------



## rwoods

bitzer said:


> That guy would **** himself if he came to cut with
> Me for a morning.
> ...



Come on, Bitzer, you wouldn't make room for an artist? With his saw and deft cuts, he is poetry in slow motion.

Seriously, the first thoughts that came to me while watching that video were the industry for our euro brothers must be so regulated and boring (no pun intended) that folks come up with these cuts for a little relief. Of course, I was just speculating and really have no idea what their work life is like beyond the distortions of YouTube.

Ron


----------



## Gologit

rwoods said:


> Come on, Bitzer, you wouldn't make room for an artist? With his saw and deft cuts, he is poetry in slow motion.
> 
> Seriously, the first thoughts that came to me while watching that video were the industry for our euro brothers must be so regulated and boring (no pun intended) that folks come up with these cuts for a little relief. Of course, I was just speculating and really have no idea what their work life is like beyond the distortions of YouTube.
> 
> Ron



They keep trying to re-invent the wheel. Maybe they get paid by the hour.


----------



## northmanlogging

This goes here, its falling right?


----------



## Scablands

That video should be under advanced techniques as you're using the "stuck" tree as a driver to down to smaller trees. 

Fancy!!!


----------



## HuskStihl

northmanlogging said:


> This goes here, its falling right?



That was cute and all, but why didn't you just jump up and down on it?


----------



## Gologit

HuskStihl said:


> That was cute and all, but why didn't you just jump up and down on it?


 
Because he's trying to show some professionalism, set a good example, show the rookies how things are 'sposed to be done...that sort of thing.

In real life, without the video going, he probably would've picked the damn thing up off the ground, thrown it over his shoulder, and walked to the landing with it.


----------



## northmanlogging

Knaw I would have tripped and then been stuck under it... trying to squirm out and still look cool, like I planned it that way


----------



## HuskStihl

northmanlogging said:


> Knaw I would have tripped and then been stuck under it... trying to squirm out and still look cool, like I planned it that way


That would be one embarassing Sasquatch sighting


----------



## northmanlogging

goin fer the fatties...


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## HuskStihl

northmanlogging said:


> goin fer the fatties...



That saw makes you look kinda fat.


----------



## GilksTreeFelling

Not as nice and Purdy as some of your guys pics/vids but this was a yellow birch that was today's challenge about 15ft from the road and close quarters to some power lines *Camera person was directly below the power lines* so had to come down. It'll make some nice firewood next winter my technique aint as graceful as mos but gets the wood down safely lol










https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=r-vDDtQCdOU

And for those of you who like the felling cut pics. Forgot to grab one of the stump but here's one of the tree shoot I cut off the stump


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## rwoods

Didn't know where to post this but thought some may enjoy it. No skyline required just send your machine over the edge. I would want absolute confidence in my winch man - no accidental free wheels.  Ron


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## Skeans

rwoods said:


> Didn't know where to post this but thought some may enjoy it. No skyline required just send your machine over the edge. I would want absolute confidence in my winch man - no accidental free wheels.  Ron



They've been doing it down there for a while and up here for the past couple of years, a couple of local companies are building the winch assist setups even the thinning has been doing it for a while. One of the locals is doing a winch assist with a tigercat skidder and a large wheeled clam bunk set up.

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## bitzer

They're wearing shorts! In the woods! Wtf?????!!!!


----------



## Skeans

bitzer said:


> They're wearing shorts! In the woods! Wtf?????!!!!


Normal down there, at one of the Weyco safety meeting we went to a while ago they had some guys from down there even hand cutting they had shorts it's so wrong.

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## Dave Hadden

I haven't scrolled through so this pic may have been posted before.
If so, my apologies.











Take care.


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## GilksTreeFelling

Skeans said:


> Normal down there, at one of the Weyco safety meeting we went to a while ago they had some guys from down there even hand cutting they had shorts it's so wrong.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


If I wore shorts in the woods here I'd be pulling Ticks off my lower bits for hours lol


----------



## Skeans

Here you guys go a tail hold for the steep slope assist built by Krume Logging and Summit Attachments.





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## GilksTreeFelling

Here's a maple I started on today,cleared some of of cheap at ground level around it an started removing some of the road side limbs to get t weight more on the right side of the trunk* side opposite of the rd* . I'll put It down tomorrow as the wind was not comfortable. The road in the pics is a private one that runs the full length *2km* through my spread.there's a high voltage line 3ft off the Rd might be able to see It in a couple pics so all the trees I work near the road I have to spend a bit mor time planning how to drop them safely the ma trunk is only about 16-18"dbh so not big by any means but it presents a bit more technicalitys then the usual drop on its natural lean approach


----------



## GilksTreeFelling

Next week's project, a conifer of large proportions for the area *29.5"dbh. Again close to the Rd it's gotta come out before this year's storm season starts up. First pic the tree is on the right sorta online with the corner of my truck roof you can see the hydro pole on the left of the pic. I am hoping to get that down weather permitting mid week, it's going to end up as a nice new workshop counter top and shelves


----------



## GilksTreeFelling

Well had a little father kids bonding time today taking downing the little maple next to the road previously posted. Ended up doing a bore cut with back strap using wedges in the bore cuts. Didn't want to risking the back leaning tree pinching my saw. Did the cut about 4ft up as I wanted a high stump to teach my son about wedging over. He chose the placement of the face, th back cuts the placement an driving of the wedges to tip over the stump I di the sawing part lol m daughter prefers watching a takin pics though lol


----------



## GilksTreeFelling

Well took down the little spruce that was starting to cause a hazard to the power lines, another storm season would put it in the lines. 

Left a lot of hinge to slow it's fall so I could make sure it cleared the lines on the way down.

Temps are at 30*C now so called it a day and n taking the kids to the beach


----------



## GilksTreeFelling

Well a bit more clean up today, 



This is why looking up is so important when working in the woods, 






A little stump show. Not my best but not my worst either.




And the crew
Myself and my two safety supervisors


----------



## HuskStihl

nscoyote said:


> Well had a little father kids bonding time today taking downing the little maple next to the road previously posted. Ended up doing a bore cut with back strap using wedges in the bore cuts. Didn't want to risking the back leaning tree pinching my saw. Did the cut about 4ft up as I wanted a high stump to teach my son about wedging over. He chose the placement of the face, th back cuts the placement an driving of the wedges to tip over the stump I di the sawing part lol m daughter prefers watching a takin pics though lol





nscoyote said:


> Well took down the little spruce that was starting to cause a hazard to the power lines, another storm season would put it in the lines.
> 
> Left a lot of hinge to slow it's fall so I could make sure it cleared the lines on the way down.
> 
> Temps are at 30*C now so called it a day and n taking the kids to the beach





nscoyote said:


> Well a bit more clean up today, View attachment 515867
> View attachment 515868
> 
> 
> This is why looking up is so important when working in the woods,
> View attachment 515870
> View attachment 515872
> 
> View attachment 515875
> 
> 
> A little stump show. Not my best but not my worst either.
> View attachment 515877
> 
> 
> 
> And the crew
> Myself and my two safety supervisors
> View attachment 515879


Cool stuff Mang!


----------



## GilksTreeFelling

not much falling today, mostly brush cleaning slash moving, and cutting down pecker poles.
opened up the previously pictured area quite a bit though





let the kids try their hand at felling thier first trees today, made them do it same way my dad did. only i made the limb em with pruning shears as well








got to hot again by noon so lunch then off to the beach for an afternoon cooldown


----------



## GilksTreeFelling

only one tree today, was at the end of its life, and as you can see in the vid too close to the road. figure better to put it down in a controlled direction now instead of storm season putting it across the road and wiping out the hydro lines on the other side of the road.

doesnt look to diffixult compared to some of the vids i see but it was leaned and weighted back towards where my son/camera man was an if you look at the saw dust you can see the wind was pushing the wrong direction too towards son. all in all went good had a slight issue with the first wedge it collapsed the wood on the stump a bit so had to pop a second one in to the left of center and get back into solid wood.





who likes burls


----------



## bnmc98

That's a lot of dough to go over an edge with a machine.

I know that some sales around here (at least FS sales) require suspended retrieval ie a line machine. I wonder if they would even allow that kind of stuff, or if its for private land harvest only.

It would be interesting to know what slope that was. our TJ feller buncher will do some pretty stinkin steep stuff.


----------



## Skeans

bnmc98 said:


> That's a lot of dough to go over an edge with a machine.
> 
> I know that some sales around here (at least FS sales) require suspended retrieval ie a line machine. I wonder if they would even allow that kind of stuff, or if its for private land harvest only.
> 
> It would be interesting to know what slope that was. our TJ feller buncher will do some pretty stinkin steep stuff.


The couple guys that have them are working on Weyerhaeuser/Fibre ground around here but had been told they were allowed to use them on State and possibly Federal ground. For steepness they were doing 100% ground as well as dropping off small vertical places it's pretty interesting to see, ourselves we don't have a tilter but drop off and go up stuff that's pushing the limits for sure.

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## scheffa

The one that nearly killed me, will post a video later.
Got sent to fall some trees that where above my skill level, was a good learning curve however


----------



## scheffa




----------



## GilksTreeFelling

wow that was a close call on that one least it looked it from the vid. glad it didnt catch you on the way down.


----------



## bitzer

Run away! Don't stand around the stump gawking! Get the hell out of there especially with big dead stuff. Looks like you had plenty of time to retreat to a safe distance. Never plant your feet when timber cutting. The tree didn't even come off the stump. I've had em come back off the stump 30-40 feet. Thats scary.


----------



## rwoods

Glad you weren't hurt. I'm no pro, but I have to ask why you stood so close once it was committed to falling. It squirted your wedges a considerable distance. I'm glad it wasn't your head. 

Thanks for posting the video. Sometimes there seems to be too many sterile posts that tend to understate the danger.

Ron


----------



## rwoods

There is always the urge to stop short and watch the fall, but it isn't worth it even in a clear spot like you had. Below is one of the above my pay grade trees I have cut (and the ugliest stump). Once it committed, I was out of there. Left the saw running at the stump. No close call. Though I have had plenty of close calls with nice straight healthy trees. 







Once again I am glad you didn't get hurt. Ron


----------



## Skeans

rwoods said:


> There is always the urge to stop short and watch the fall, but it isn't worth it even in a clear spot like you had. Below is one of the above my pay grade trees I have cut (and the ugliest stump). Once it committed, I was out of there. Left the saw running at the stump. No close call. Though I have had plenty of close calls with nice straight healthy trees.
> View attachment 519034
> View attachment 519035
> View attachment 519036
> View attachment 519037
> View attachment 519038
> 
> 
> Once again I am glad you didn't get hurt. Ron


Looks good Ron but like stated if you're commercially cutting on high dollar sticks on steep ground there's no where to go, now another place I've seen guys killed getting out of the road of widow makers but still got hit by them in thinning doug fir.

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----------



## Woos31

bitzer said:


> Run away! Don't stand around the stump gawking! Get the hell out of there especially with big dead stuff. Looks like you had plenty of time to retreat to a safe distance. Never plant your feet when timber cutting. The tree didn't even come off the stump. I've had em come back off the stump 30-40 feet. Thats scary.


And still chase you matching zig for zag and ya think well this is it then just like that it's done, spend a half hour pickin up chit you yard saled on the retreat


----------



## bitzer

rwoods said:


> There is always the urge to stop short and watch the fall, but it isn't worth it even in a clear spot like you had. Below is one of the above my pay grade trees I have cut (and the ugliest stump). Once it committed, I was out of there. Left the saw running at the stump. No close call. Though I have had plenty of close calls with nice straight healthy trees.
> View attachment 519034
> View attachment 519035
> View attachment 519036
> View attachment 519037
> View attachment 519038
> 
> 
> Once again I am glad you didn't get hurt. Ron


Looks like that white oak had a lot going on Ron. I guess the danger is implied for those that are used to it. That doesn't mean awareness of the situation is lost. The more you do it, the sharper your awareness gets. Every day is a learning experience.


----------



## rwoods

Skeans said:


> Looks good Ron but like stated if you're commercially cutting on high dollar sticks on steep ground there's no where to go, now another place I've seen guys killed getting out of the road of widow makers but still got hit by them in thinning doug fir.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk



Not much run room when you are standing on a stick or tied to the tree. I've done neither. However, I have been in places where for some reason or the other you don't have the room you would want - that is why I asked about his standing so close, there may be something we can't see.



bitzer said:


> Looks like that white oak had a lot going on Ron. I guess the danger is implied for those that are used to it. That doesn't mean awareness of the situation is lost. The more you do it, the sharper your awareness gets. Every day is a learning experience.



Don't cut for a living or for necessity, nor am I an adrenaline junky, but if there were no danger I would do little cutting. Maybe take up boar hunting. 

Ron


----------



## Skeans

rwoods said:


> Not much run room when you are standing on a stick or tied to the tree. I've done neither. However, I have been in places where for some reason or the other you don't have the room you would want - that is why I asked about his standing so close, there may be something we can't see.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't cut for a living or for necessity, nor am I an adrenaline junky, but if there were no danger I would do little cutting. Maybe take up boar hunting.
> 
> Ron


There's times and places, I don't climb much at all I may fall oversize with that you're talking high dollar logs you sit on the stump.

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----------



## bitzer

Skeans said:


> There's times and places, I don't climb much at all I may fall oversize with that you're talking high dollar logs you sit on the stump.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


Yep sometimes you need to stick around to saw it up, but definitely not in that situation. Maybe there is something we can't see. Just doesnt look like it.


----------



## rwoods

Understood. Typically, I'm not trying to save any wood.* Not sure whether or not our Aussie friend was. I also understand that it is easier for me to dump my saw and run since my livelihood doesn't depend upon the tree or the saw. Ron

* And as bitzer can attest, I have inadvertently made firewood of trees that could have been cut for logs.


----------



## Skeans

rwoods said:


> Understood. Typically, I'm not trying to save any wood.* Not sure whether or not our Aussie friend was. I also understand that it is easier for me to dump my saw and run since my livelihood doesn't depending upon the tree or the saw. Ron
> 
> * And as bitzer can attest, I have inadvertently made firewood of trees that could have been cut for logs.


Trust me I've made lots of tp pulp out of saw logs learning sometimes everything is perfect but you just can't get avoid the invetable.

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## Woos31

Skeans said:


> Looks good Ron but like stated if you're commercially cutting on high dollar sticks on steep ground there's no where to go, now another place I've seen guys killed getting out of the road of widow makers but still got hit by them in thinning doug fir.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


True and sad fact so it's a "like" for past and present timber cutters not a worker gettin smacked


----------



## scheffa

Running wasn't really an option as I would most likely have tripped and fallen in the bracken, the ground was littered with holes also.
I don't like to turn my back on a tree, if I can't see it I don't know where to go.
When standing in the centre of that stump I couldn't touch the sides so was approximately 1.8m diameter inside the hollow


----------



## bitzer

scheffa said:


> Running wasn't really an option as I would most likely have tripped and fallen in the bracken, the ground was littered with holes also.
> I don't like to turn my back on a tree, if I can't see it I don't know where to go.
> When standing in the centre of that stump I couldn't touch the sides so was approximately 1.8m diameter inside the hollow


Next time have an escape path or two cleared. Otherwise there may not be a next time. Timber fallers 101. Sometimes you need to run like hell and believe me you won't care if you have your back to the tree once you turn around and see the mess piled up right where you were standing. I'm being extra critical because guys get hurt or killed near the stump. I had a guy cutting for me who always stood and watched and I repeatedly told him not to. He got lucky and only had minor injuries to his leg. A few more inches his way and I'd hate to think how bad it could have been. Butt slipped off another tree, back over the stump and side swiped his leg. He was 8-9 ft from the stump. Another cutter I know got killed last summer by a branch tossed back at him. He was less than 10 ft from the stump. You need to know when it's safe to stand and watch the fun and know when to run. My guess is you thought it was safe to stand around until it wasn't and then you froze. It happens. I've seen it.


----------



## northmanlogging

most cutters are killed within 10' of the stump. **** watchin it run awy


----------



## GilksTreeFelling

took a couple dead ones down yesterday bout 1/4mile down my property road, one of them poped sideways on me to the right was a 18-19" spruce that was in bad shape. started the fall nice, kerf opened up perect then she went over to yhe right. scared the bejesus out of me when it cracked 6" inches up from the back cut and dropped. 

i had set it up to fall away from the road into the field, when it broke it dropped beside the road. it dont take much sometimes for things to go sideways on you. had the wind been blowing east ro west instead of nor to south id not be typing today. always set up 2 escape paths and watch the top as often as the kerf

these pics arnt of the tree that acted up but in the same state a littlw further up the road.


----------



## madhatte

Definitely get outside of that 10' radius. If you wanna watch it, run backwards.


----------



## bnmc98

scheffa said:


> View attachment 518920
> The one that nearly killed me, will post a video later.
> Got sent to fall some trees that where above my skill level, was a good learning curve however



Um... not to be critical, but that tree did not almost kill you. You almost got a bruise from the flying branch, but not near death. I'm glad it wasn't. But I am not belittling that it probably felt that way to you. 
You will know "near death" when you experience it.

Heed what the others are saying and clear a path if you must so you do not really experience "near death" or..... just... "death"


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## KiwiBro

Thanks for posting scheffa. A good learning experience I'm sure.


----------



## scheffa

Should have said it was the one that could have killed me. That was my first time falling big burnt out timber, had 8 wedges in the jord some stacked to try and make it go over.
I learnt a lot on the this job, I'm a climber not a Faller and I don't pretend to be, I am however quickly learning some of the tricks of the trade. Unfortunately here in Aus there aren't many hand falling operations around anymore for one to learn on. Where i work in the high country we often come across these monster trees 7'+ Dbh. Cutting big timber I something I love about living up here. 

Thanks for all of the advise, I will be certain to take it onboard


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## Bwildered

Big old dead stags aren't the ones to learn on by yourself, they are the ones that only really experienced fallers should tackle, the worst thing about them is that limbs can fall out if the top of them at anytime, that's why you never ever drive wedges into them.
Crankski


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## rwoods

Scheffa, there are several on here that are quite experienced at cutting NA burn outs. Hopefully they will chime in with some pointers.

Ron


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## bitzer

Bwildered said:


> Big old dead stags aren't the ones to learn on by yourself, they are the ones that only really experienced fallers should tackle, the worst thing about them is that limbs can fall out if the top of them at anytime, that's why you never ever drive wedges into them.
> Crankski


 Never ever?


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## madhatte

bitzer said:


> Never ever?



Beat me to it!


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## bnmc98

Bwildered said:


> Big old dead stags aren't the ones to learn on by yourself, they are the ones that only really experienced fallers should tackle, the worst thing about them is that limbs can fall out if the top of them at anytime, that's why you never ever drive wedges into them.
> Crankski



No, that's why you look up.


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## bitzer

madhatte said:


> Beat me to it!


He must live in a magical land where snags can always be cut with the lean. Very telling.


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## scheffa

If you can't drive wedges how do you fall something that is fairly even weighted the whole way up, needs to fall in certain direction and is missing a third of the barrel?
There was no option to install a pull line and we don't have tree jacks


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## KiwiBro

I think what Bwildered was hinting at is he would swing 'em. 179 degrees. In the shade.

/sarcasm

But dead trees can drop branch bombs at the merest hint of an invitation. A few standard issue bottle jacks are a small price to pay for having another tool in your box-o-tricks.


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## Bwildered

scheffa said:


> If you can't drive wedges how do you fall something that is fairly even weighted the whole way up, needs to fall in certain direction and is missing a third of the barrel?
> There was no option to install a pull line and we don't have tree jacks


If you can't fall it with the lean, can't get solid wood to jack it over, can't get a pull line onto it, can't get a excavator to dig & push it over, can't get it down with explosives, then as a learner you definitely shouldn't be anywhere near something like that anyhow, check out the ACE tree services videos if they are still on YouTube, not a wedge insight, it's an easy way, just really dangerous.
Fafinski


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## Gologit

Bwildered said:


> Big old dead stags aren't the ones to learn on by yourself, they are the ones that only really experienced fallers should tackle, the worst thing about them is that limbs can fall out if the top of them at anytime, that's why you never ever drive wedges into them.
> Crankski



I've cut a lot of snags, way more than I ever wanted to. Most fallers hate snags and I don't blame them.
Saying that you should "never ever" drive wedges into them is bad advice.
There are some that can be wedged and some that can't. An experienced faller will know the difference.
There's also a lot of difference between cutting burn salvage snags and cutting snags that died a natural death. Natural snags are usually far more dangerous than burn snags
The amount of good wood that hasn't been burned will give you your first clue. Your face cut will tell this right away. These are ususally okay to wedge.
If it's burned quite a ways into the wood you might not want to use wedges.
To say that should never use wedges on snags is poor advice and shows your lack of experience, not to mention common sense.
A couple of guys here mentioned looking up when you're cutting snags. That's excellent advice. The tree you're falling can drop limbs on you and it can also hit other trees on the way down. If it hits other trees _their_ branches can break off and sling-shot back at you.
Wedge burned snags if you need to, unless the wood is so burned or rotten that the wedge won't do you any good.
If it's a totally rotten snag just drop it any way it wants to go. Sometimes crossing the lead has to be done. If the guys on the skidders grumble about it just ignore them.


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## Bwildered

Gologit said:


> I've cut a lot of snags, way more than I ever wanted to. Most fallers hate snags and I don't blame them.
> Saying that you should "never ever" drive wedges into them is bad advice.
> There are some that can be wedged and some that can't. An experienced faller will know the difference.
> There's also a lot of difference between cutting burn salvage snags and cutting snags that died a natural death. Natural snags are usually far more dangerous than burn snags
> The amount of good wood that hasn't been burned will give you your first clue. Your face cut will tell this right away. These are ususally okay to wedge.
> If it's burned quite a ways into the wood you might not want to use wedges.
> To say that should never use wedges on snags is poor advice and shows your lack of experience, not to mention common sense.
> A couple of guys here mentioned looking up when you're cutting snags. That's excellent advice. The tree you're falling can drop limbs on you and it can also hit other trees on the way down. If it hits other trees _their_ branches can break off and sling-shot back at you.
> Wedge burned snags if you need to, unless the wood is so burned or rotten that the wedge won't do you any good.
> If it's a totally rotten snag just drop it any way it wants to go. Sometimes crossing the lead has to be done. If the guys on the skidders grumble about it just ignore them.


You're talking out of your arse, have no idea about the nature of our dead eucalyptus timber, if you don't want to die or get injured then one doesn't disturb old dead standing trees in any way by jolting or jarring them, the ground around old trees like that is littered with fallen limbs which have come down all by themselves, it only takes a limb 2" X 3' coming down from 150' to break your shoulder, arm, neck or stove the top of your head in with a hard hat on.
I test bumped a small ( 30" dbh) dead tree to see how solid it was with the blade of the dozer one day, the top came out of it & landed on the the canopy of the machine, it looked solid but was termite ridden & just a paper thin shell up high.
Transki


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## Gologit

Bwildered said:


> You're talking out of your arse, have no idea about the nature of our dead eucalyptus timber, if you don't want to die or get injured then one doesn't disturb old dead standing trees in any way by jolting or jarring them, the ground around old trees like that is littered with fallen limbs which have come down all by themselves, it only takes a limb 2" X 3' coming down from 150' to break your shoulder, arm, neck or stove the top of your head in with a hard hat on.
> I test bumped a small ( 30" dbh) dead tree to see how solid it was with the blade of the dozer one day, the top came out of it & landed on the the canopy of the machine, it looked solid but was termite ridden & just a paper thin shell up high.
> Transki



You're right about one thing, I've never cut any wood in Australia. That's the only thing you're right about.
I've cut oak, madrone, and eucalyptus quite a bit, both green and dead. Dry euc is probably the hardest would I've ever seen.
If a faller refused to cut every tree he thought presented a hazard he wouldn't have a job very long and his reputation for being overly cautious would precede him.
I understand that you don't have much experience and I don't hold that against you. Everybody started from zero but most of them learned as they went along and the good ones are still learning every day.
You, on the other hand, seem unable or maybe unwilling to accept any methods and beliefs that are different from your own.
With your attitude you'd last maybe half a day working in the woods until your boss found out what a complete idiot you were and they'd be sending you to town before you hurt yourself or, most importantly, somebody else. If you were on a crew that I was running you might not make it until lunch.
Now, that being said, I wish you luck. I mean that. I really do.


----------



## northmanlogging

scheffa said:


> If you can't drive wedges how do you fall something that is fairly even weighted the whole way up, needs to fall in certain direction and is missing a third of the barrel?
> There was no option to install a pull line and we don't have tree jacks



Jacks is cheap, 25ton bottle jack from the local hardware warehouse store is all I use, got 2 of em, though I think one is frose up from hanging out in the backup crummy for over a year. Don't bother with anything under 20ton (metric or yank) they won't hold up and won't do much when you do need em. I've bent the handles on my 25t jacks just on 36" fir, not even leaning real hard just limb heavy. Doing pull ups and it don't move is a bad sign.

put a plate of steel on the top 3/8-1/2" thick (10mm-13mm? ****ing metric shite) to spread the pressure out some, mine have about 3x5" 3/8 plate on em with a handy chunk of gas pipe welded on as a keeper, just happened to fit snugly over the ram so poof keeper. They are bent a bit and could be wider as they sink into the wood at times but they work.

Jacking snags is still a sketchy maneuver, its just safer then beating wedges in, go slow and be careful. Pump the jack a couple times and palm the wedge in a bit. Always use a wedge as back up when jacking. Jacks fail, anything with moving parts is going to break eventually, best not to rely on it.

Normally for jacking trees, I'll jack a little and then give the wedge a good smack, trading off the weight from one to the other as the tree lifts, makes a little less work. If you're using two bottle jacks you can pump one and then the other, for pretty much the same effect, but still keep a wedge or two in there. The cool thing is you will feel the weight come off the jack as the tree stands up and gets ready to go, gets to a balance point and will just sit there until the wind picks up or momentum takes over

CLEAR AT LEAST TWO ESCAPE PATHS, on every ****ing tree, this is step one does not matter if its a snag or a perfect cone of delight, **** happens and you need to be ready for it. Its doubly more important on a snag because its going to blow up either when it starts to move or when it hits the ground or somewhere in between.

Also, the point of a face cut is A to direct a tree, and B to undermine the support of one side, therefor making standing weight into hanging weight, if its supposedly perfectly straight up and evenly balanced, putting a deep face in one side will change that equation fairly fast, by then palming a wedge into the back cut side it will prevent the trees from sitting back due to wind etc then the only way it can go is towards the face.

Folks have been know to say **** like "you didn't need a wedge in that" yeah well if I didn't wedge it then what? it has a chance to sit back... so take the time at least palm a wedge in and go.


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## KiwiBro

Hmmm. Here's a no-shock wedge idea. No endorsement, just an interesting approach. Lighter but without the lift of a bottle jack. Would it grip in dense wood?


----------



## madhatte

Bwildered said:


> You're talking out of your arse, have no idea



You, uh, don't know who you 're talking to, do you? That guy has been cutting since dirt was a new invention, and has forgotten more than any of the rest of us mere mortals will ever learn. You'd do well to listen to his advice. It came at the cost of many years of hard time, and many associates lost too soon. Kids today, I tell you.


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## northmanlogging

resisting urge to see ignored content...


**** it I'm going to bed


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## scheffa

Appreciate all the feedback both positive and negative.
The tree wasn't dead, a burnt out hazard yes but definitely not dead.
The tree fell the intended direction, due to the large hollowed out section there wasn't enough room to skarf/notch it like normal and place a back cut, this is where my problem was with getting the tree to tip over. 

While I realise what I did is probably dangerous, it was our only option at the time, given how far we were from anywhere and the equipment we had on hand. 
If none of us took risks in life we wouldn't have evolved the way that we have, it was a calculated risk that I was comfortable with


----------



## Bwildered

Gologit said:


> You're right about one thing, I've never cut any wood in Australia. That's the only thing you're right about.
> I've cut oak, madrone, and eucalyptus quite a bit, both green and dead. Dry euc is probably the hardest would I've ever seen.
> If a faller refused to cut every tree he thought presented a hazard he wouldn't have a job very long and his reputation for being overly cautious would precede him.
> I understand that you don't have much experience and I don't hold that against you. Everybody started from zero but most of them learned as they went along and the good ones are still learning every day.
> You, on the other hand, seem unable or maybe unwilling to accept any methods and beliefs that are different from your own.
> With your attitude you'd last maybe half a day working in the woods until your boss found out what a complete idiot you were and they'd be sending you to town before you hurt yourself or, most importantly, somebody else. If you were on a crew that I was running you might not make it until lunch.
> Now, that being said, I wish you luck. I mean that. I really do.


Ha ha what a joke! That tree was more than likely a few hundred years old & had the guts burnt out of it before captain cook even set foot here, you've seen nothing like it (eucalyptus) old china, it's just not possible!


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## Bwildered

scheffa said:


> Appreciate all the feedback both positive and negative.
> The tree wasn't dead, a burnt out hazard yes but definitely not dead.
> The tree fell the intended direction, due to the large hollowed out section there wasn't enough room to skarf/notch it like normal and place a back cut, this is where my problem was with getting the tree to tip over.
> 
> While I realise what I did is probably dangerous, it was our only option at the time, given how far we were from anywhere and the equipment we had on hand.
> If none of us took risks in life we wouldn't have evolved the way that we have, it was a calculated risk that I was comfortable with


I hope I don't ever get as alive as that tree was when you fell it, although I know its inevitable in the end. You did survive but you wouldn't want to repeat it too often & test your luck!
Natinski


----------



## bnmc98

Bwildered said:


> Ha ha what a joke! That tree was more than likely a few hundred years old & had the guts burnt out of it before captain cook even set foot here, you've seen nothing like it (eucalyptus) old china, it's just not possible!



You're making a stink about one tree. Every faller has walked away from a tree before so your point is worthless. Usually they find another way to get it down. The issue is you are telling people never to put a wedge in a dead tree and smack it. And now you quote some publication that recommends the same thing, but does not say "never" and its a government publication at that, which is based of fear of lawsuit so that again is worthless. I have been in the government training for chainsaw safety up here. I had to relearn just about everything when I went into logging. Their methods are designed around safety for the most inept, accident prone, underqualified, lack of common sense people out there so they don't kill themselves.
Even after that training, I watched a guy on our crew cut completely through a railroad tie with the chain on backwards! and he never had a clue.
You are fearful and prideful so you won't listen to anything other than what you think is right, based on other conversations we have had with you in past. And because of that you think you have the right to dispel anything anyone says that is contrary to your ideas and call what you say as gospel.
Many of us work safe fast and efficient up here.
You are just afraid of some of our techniques and probably would never accept them or change your ways.
.... that is why you would never make it up here as stated before.


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## bitzer

Reggie likes to quote government publications. 

I had forgotten that it's winter down there and the deciduous trees wouldn't have leaves. The thing is no matter what type of tree and where in the world it is the same general mechanics apply. How those mechanics are applied to the species, state of the tree, size, and situation is what makes the difference. How you employ the techniques and when determines the outcome. A successful outcome can only be gained through experience and often a little luck. In Jack's (hotsaws101) words, " by God's grace," would replace the luck. When I first started watching his videos years ago I thought it was kind of goofy. The more time I spend in the woods the more it rings true. I have a lot of respect for guys like him. Those that have cut the "big" trees for decades and still do. They have figured something out that is not in a publication.


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## northmanlogging

KiwiBro said:


> Hmmm. Here's a no-shock wedge idea. No endorsement, just an interesting approach. Lighter but without the lift of a bottle jack. Would it grip in dense wood?



wes spur and a few other folks carry these baileys maybe? taint cheap though


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## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> wes spur and a few other folks carry these baileys maybe? taint cheap though


I'd bet you money it'd sink in a good sized fir real fast.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


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## northmanlogging

scheffa said:


> Appreciate all the feedback both positive and negative.
> The tree wasn't dead, a burnt out hazard yes but definitely not dead.
> The tree fell the intended direction, due to the large hollowed out section there wasn't enough room to skarf/notch it like normal and place a back cut, this is where my problem was with getting the tree to tip over.
> 
> While I realise what I did is probably dangerous, it was our only option at the time, given how far we were from anywhere and the equipment we had on hand.
> If none of us took risks in life we wouldn't have evolved the way that we have, it was a calculated risk that I was comfortable with



its good to see that ya at least recognize the risk... its yer life etc. just rather not hear about someone getting killed because they wanted to watch it go. if ya like watchin em hit the ground so much get someone else to cut it, besides adreniline seems to shut out noise and really thats the best part that and the ground shakin...


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## northmanlogging

Skeans said:


> I'd bet you money it'd sink in a good sized fir real fast.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


ya i dont think they have the girth to hold a big tree up whole thing is only like 5" long, climber guys like em cause seingin an axe while tied to a tree is less then fun.


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## Westboastfaller

Bwildered said:


> Big old dead stags aren't the ones to learn on by yourself, they are the ones that only really experienced fallers should tackle, the worst thing about them is that limbs can fall out if the top of them at anytime, that's why you never ever drive wedges into them.
> Crankski


I can agree with most of it there. Certainly don't "DRIVE a single wedge hard with some species but use safe wedging practices. Falling branches isn't the "worst thing about them" Falling branches is no joke I agree and will break you down to your pelvis like nothing or worse. Often branches will come out from between green trees and in the coast here we hang in the cut for about 3 to 6 seconds after the tree starts to lift. You have to be looking up as the canopy opens. Limb tied trees are felled together
These ones you speak of with branches may not all be Dangour tree's? (DT) There is a difference between a snag and a DT, A snag isn't necessary a dangerous tree as It was pointed out.. A 'DT' isn't necessary a DT to the faller either as it can be classified a DT by location, It may be a green tree and classified by lean. All dead tree's are certainly not dangerous. Healthy trees that were recently killed from bugs and the same with recent light fire scorch.
20 years after a burn the trees are hard like rock, have been my experience, it's the roots system that makes them all DT. Just look at your site overview and you will see blow down up to your waist. It's not the wedging of these tree's you may be falling or the roots uplifting that is the concern but others uplifting from the disturbance.
NOT falling branches but the bigger concern is the tree folding from the force of a wedge. With certain species like white snags here in the PNW, Some will say never wedge them? At least don't do it wrong. It's just a dangerous game and you only have to be wrong once. A faller got killed on a small crew I was on in July from wedging a balam (Grand fir) You talk about your plump Bob so often but tree's have an obvious lean up a hill quite a ways and gravity will suck them down still. Another example I found in north BC and AB I pick direction over lean and branch weight with in reason. If I possible can start from the east when I will cut them for north east to a south east direction even when it looks like a west lean and 8 out of 10 of the ones that seem obvious west will go to the 'east' I would take my experience over your plumb bob at $100 a tree and for every $200 i pay you, you will be paying me $800 I believe. I know you will find that pretty Chucky soup but it's not up for debate with you.
It is not only the best things I have learnt about lean but one of the best things I have learnt about falling. Anyway that faller had a hole at the top of the hill and likely believed the snag was leaning for the flat area above the hill. The tree was getting pull from the hill and it sat back on his saw as we could see teeth marks on the butt as well wedge marks. He must have been so sure it was going to go up the top of the hill on to the flat area that he didn't even put a wedge in it. Don't bet against the pull of the hill.
Now he's wedging from the low side with branches in his vision from the last two cedar tree's just off to his left. Vision impaired? Working from the low side? how was his safety trail? Was he alternating at least two wedges? Was he waiting for the force to disperse between hits with a muff up? Did he slip or trip? Could he have gotten his spare saw as he was close to the road and redirected it down? Was he being complacent and careless? Could he have fell the three together down the hill even if it meant wedging the DT a little? Probably but he did what Worksafe BC wants us to do and that's fall it as soon as you have a sizeable hole to do so. Obviously got himself in a pickle when it sat back. Deaths of others become my experience. I use wedges for holding ugly DT together or from pinching if I don't cut them up right to begin with, it's like bucking, you have to feel for the pressure on big snags. When you can fall large dia ugly snags without wedges then you're loggin' as for wedging for lean? One faller with a lot more experience than me said over soup right after this accident that he will never wedge a white wood snag. I don't know how he does it but when you stand in some of this terrain here you have to think like you are cemented in concrete because that's the way it feels. Getting away from a large falling top at times seems like bad odds. You don't even have
to be wedging white snags to get it from a top. Never stop the forward sage by repositioning your falling Dogs or you will snap that top back at you. Under bar sized trees, set your dogs in the corner of the mouth and don't stop cutting. Not a tree that you want to run out of gas on.


----------



## Westboastfaller

Bwildered said:


> View attachment 519439
> 
> I hope I don't ever get as alive as that tree was when you fell it, although I know inevitable in the end. You did survive but you wouldn't want to repeat it too often & test your luck!
> Natinski


 ^^^ I guess I gave this post a like based on the last sentence only. I'm not so sure what is "inevitable in the end"? Although I do agree with most of the safe work procedures I though it was odd in your other post that the biggest concern with wedging was the possibility of dislodging branches. I see that's what was said in the falling procedures you posted. You are Bull ******** for entertainment..haha


----------



## Bwildered

bnmc98 said:


> You're making a stink about one tree. Every faller has walked away from a tree before so your point is worthless. Usually they find another way to get it down. The issue is you are telling people never to put a wedge in a dead tree and smack it. And now you quote some publication that recommends the same thing, but does not say "never" and its a government publication at that, which is based of fear of lawsuit so that again is worthless. I have been in the government training for chainsaw safety up here. I had to relearn just about everything when I went into logging. Their methods are designed around safety for the most inept, accident prone, underqualified, lack of common sense people out there so they don't kill themselves.
> Even after that training, I watched a guy on our crew cut completely through a railroad tie with the chain on backwards! and he never had a clue.
> You are fearful and prideful so you won't listen to anything other than what you think is right, based on other conversations we have had with you in past. And because of that you think you have the right to dispel anything anyone says that is contrary to your ideas and call what you say as gospel.
> Many of us work safe fast and efficient up here.
> You are just afraid of some of our techniques and probably would never accept them or change your ways.
> .... that is why you would never make it up here as stated before.


It's just common sense to know it's a dangerous practice, but it seems common sense isn't that common.
Slashinski


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## Bwildered

Westboastfaller said:


> ^^^ I guess I gave this post a like based on the last sentence only. I'm not so sure what is "inevitable in the end"? Although I do agree with most of the safe work procedures I though it was odd in your other post that the biggest concern with wedging was the possibility of dislodging branches. I see that's what was said in the falling procedures you posted. You are Bull ******** for entertainment..haha


That one went over your head completely, the tree was as dead as a dodo!
Chinski


----------



## Bwildered

bitzer said:


> Reggie likes to quote government publications.
> 
> I had forgotten that it's winter down there and the deciduous trees wouldn't have leaves. The thing is no matter what type of tree and where in the world it is the same general mechanics apply. How those mechanics are applied to the species, state of the tree, size, and situation is what makes the difference. How you employ the techniques and when determines the outcome. A successful outcome can only be gained through experience and often a little luck. In Jack's (hotsaws101) words, " by God's grace," would replace the luck. When I first started watching his videos years ago I thought it was kind of goofy. The more time I spend in the woods the more it rings true. I have a lot of respect for guys like him. Those that have cut the "big" trees for decades and still do. They have figured something out that is not in a publication.


By gods grace, Eucalyptus aren't deciduous, when there's no leaves on them their dead & when bits & pieces fall off them when falling then are thrown through the air when they land of they've been dead for a while, I lost a fair bit of respect for mr hotsaws when he was falling alongside a open road or highway & didn't do the right thing, he shouldn't be let loose that close to civilisation with that much intelligence.
Sanksi


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## bitzer

Bwildered said:


> By gods grace, Eucalyptus aren't deciduous, when there's no leaves on them their dead & when bits & pieces fall off them when falling then are thrown through the air when they land of they've been dead for a while, I lost a fair bit of respect for mr hotsaws when he was falling alongside a open road or highway & didn't do the right thing, he shouldn't be let loose that close to civilisation with that much intelligence.
> Sanksi


Scheffa said the tree wasn't dead so I took his word for it. I've cut my share of dead wood. I spent two months last winter on oak wilt killed trees. Some dead for 6 or 7 years. I'm not sure you really know what it takes. Just a curiosity what did Jack do wrong? Cut too close to the road without a cable in or machine behind?


----------



## KiwiBro

northmanlogging said:


> wes spur and a few other folks carry these baileys maybe? taint cheap though


Do you know if they work outside a youtube environment?


----------



## bnmc98

Bwildered said:


> It's just common sense to know it's a dangerous practice, but it seems common sense isn't that common.
> Slashinski



Exactly! That is why common sense is used during dangerous things we do. The avoiding of dangerous situations does not indicate common sense, but rather maybe the presence of fear. And believe me, fear and wisdom are two entirely different entities.
Wisdom tells you when to hit a wedge in a dead tree and when not to. Fear tells you to never do it. 
It's a dangerous profession, end of story.


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## northmanlogging

KiwiBro said:


> Do you know if they work outside a youtube environment?



never used one myself, but the folks on the arborist101 side like em.


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## northmanlogging

this goes here, and is more pertinent then ever, posted this afternoon, so events described took place last monday.


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## rwoods

Life cut short at only 31 years. Sad and sobering. Thanks, NM for posting this. Ron


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## Westboastfaller

Here is a few pics of the last block I just finished cutting yesterday. pretty straight forward falling. Hemlock (white wood) & Balsam (Grand fir) or as it's often grouped together on our bucking cards as Hem-Bal. Not a lot of saplings to cut or thick brush just a bit of Devi's club and blueberries. The wood wasn't great around here but not to many snags but just a bit mature for this area in places.
Easy going for the money. Next week I will be on Kennedy Island back in the ****. Oh well, it was nice while it lasted.
These ones pictured are only a little bigger than my 36" bar with the Swanson cuts. Backbar off the whiskers so nobody falls on them. A faller cut his femoral artery and bleed out on the hill a while ago.
Balsam Danger tree (DT) no sign of heart rot conks. Perfectly healthy in the outside. Leaning up hill so I cleared out for the hole it was leaning hard to. It's actually to the right of the trees from a lookers view. I debated about using the bigger one that I lightly brushed up for a pusher tree. But I didn't want to slam my logs over the blow down if I could have avoided. would have worked fine as I use a compression snap/ drop snap cut to set them up and not wedges which I'm supposed to use. I always pop a muff as I walk back to my bullet tree. best way I find is bore as close to the back of the tree as possible then backbar to set your trigger wood. Cut forward to your hing and then
cut about 5" below your back cut deep enough so when the pusher tree hits it it will break the vertical holding wood on impact. I leave about an 1" and a bit on a uniform shape tree. *For solid wood only.
If it's a small tree I just undercut and a 6"lower back cut.


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## Westboastfaller

scheffa said:


> View attachment 518920
> The one that nearly killed me, will post a video later.
> Got sent to fall some trees that where above my skill level, was a good learning curve however


 I honestly don't even know what to say but go stand in the corner for a month. Download BC Fallers safe falling practices and study it up. I think they have it well covered. I personally don't think you have the instincts and should do something else.
Your feet were planted and you turned your back. WTF was that! YOU come back and tell US where you fuvjed up and show some sound plan and skill in small diameter and I for one will give you the time of day with advice. As it stands now.. I'm leaving you at the dock. Nothing personal at all. 

Peace


----------



## Bwildered

bitzer said:


> Scheffa said the tree wasn't dead so I took his word for it. I've cut my share of dead wood. I spent two months last winter on oak wilt killed trees. Some dead for 6 or 7 years. I'm not sure you really know what it takes. Just a curiosity what did Jack do wrong? Cut too close to the road without a cable in or machine behind?


I don't fall much dead stuff, but they are scattered through the bush everywhere & ive had a few close calls with the tops falling out of them from just being brushed with other trees, or being bumped with a machine, I had one come down on the canopy of my dozer after I bumped the tree with the blade, I was brushing termites off the seat for hours. I fell a dozen long dead grey gum for a neighbor 6 weeks ago & the top of every one of them was in 3 or 4 pieces before they gone through 30 degrees of the fall & that was just slicing through thin air, they are really fragile. Years ago I was looking at 3120 a Faller was selling because he was finished in the game, a dead limb hit him halfway between his neck & shoulder joint, his arm was permanently paralysed & in a sling because of the nerve was so badly damaged from all the shattered bones with the impact.
On old hotsaws, the backcut was facing the road, if something went wrong & it went the wrong way then it would have gone down across the road, the traffic should have been stopped for a couple of minutes while he dropped it, nobody needs some idiot like that lurking in the bush while your going about your business.
Trinkski


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## scheffa

Westboastfaller said:


> I honestly don't even know what to say but go stand in the corner for a month. Download BC Fallers safe falling practices and study it up. I think they have it well covered. I personally don't think you have the instincts and should do something else.
> Your feet were planted and you turned your back. WTF was that! YOU come back and tell US where you fuvjed up and show some sound plan and skill in small diameter and I for one will give you the time of day with advice. As it stands now.. I'm leaving you at the dock. Nothing personal at all.
> 
> Peace



Sounds kinda personal to me but I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

The main mistake I believe I made was not getting out of dodge as soon as the tree started to go over, don't forget the video is in slow motion so it happened much quicker than it appears.

I possibly should not have attempted to fall this tree as it was without a doubt above my falling skill level, however there was nothing for the tree to hit so it served as a good learning tree I thought.


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## bnmc98

Westboastfaller said:


> cut about 5" below your back cut deep enough so when the pusher tree hits it it will break the vertical holding wood on impact. I leave about an 1" and a bit on a uniform shape tree. *For solid wood only.
> If it's a small tree I just undercut and a 6"lower back cu



That's a great technique, thanks for sharing. I like that you don't have to look for your wedges at the bottom of the pile.


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## GilksTreeFelling

tree on the left was the one i wanted down, right tree was going to be kept. both were heavily limb locked with each other, left tree wouldnt budge. didnt feel like standing under were it would land while rigging a rope to pull it free, so decided ill take right tree down too, rather take another tree doen then risk dropping one on my head frigging with it.


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## Westboastfaller

northmanlogging said:


> this goes here, and is more pertinent then ever, posted this afternoon, so events described took place last monday.



I would invite you to post this in" Do you know what tree is going to kill you" for discussion as awareness is the point of the video as well the thread.
Very powerful video.

Thnx


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## Westboastfaller

scheffa said:


> Sounds kinda personal to me but I will give you the benefit of the doubt.
> 
> The main mistake I believe I made was not getting out of dodge as soon as the tree started to go over, don't forget the video is in slow motion so it happened much quicker than it appears.
> 
> I possibly should not have attempted to fall this tree as it was without a doubt above my falling skill level, however there was nothing for the tree to hit so it served as a good learning tree I thought.


"You got to be crule to be kind"


Would we keep our kid in Baseball or boxing if he turned his back on the ball or an opponent. Someone pretends to throw a punch at me or a ball; "watch what my body does". You want to see a faller turn into a tree hugger in a half a second then have a bird fly by and cast a shadow.

Thats something you just can't teach, you have it or you don't!
I question your ability to make the right decision most, the rest is really irrelevant.
I will give you an explanation.

-I strongly question your decision to be in this profession from what a saw in the video.
-your wrong decision to go ahead with a tree that your knew was beyond your level.
Your decision to read all the safe practices on here and not apply ANY on the job.

What more do you need? I don't want to see you get hurt, nobody does. You're being selfish to make those bad decisions when it's going to effect others. Not us! we won't ever likely know. Not very professional or much consideration for the others it may effect. For the ones that have the instincts, I say do it right or you don't do it at all and you keep doing it or you don't do it at all. If I die with my gun in my hand, I'm an agile 'educated' dead guy and my family knows the risk at least. My extra saw skills are not needed these days


Tell you a story of a young faller (23) from the same town I sit right now in North coast BC that was 1 of 4 that got killed last year July. Also a company I work for and just found out this past June on the hill that my supervisor was killed 7 months earlier. This was a company that took over and became the biggest falling company in BC. Two fatalities in 7 months and they closed their doors this past June at a crazy business time. Now David (supervisor/friend) just got a bad deal. Very similar accident to a work safe BC video that has been posted on here a few times but the root wad was up hill that he likely couldn't see, was the report. Both deaths with the root wads were the same. They didn't cut at the tree it could pivot on because didn't they realize it was a possibility.
They were both pined into a rock cliff.

I heard it happened in front of David's trainee. I tell you what,I make dam sure that I have a back up for a back up so if I miss one thing I'm covered hopefully.
Thats an ability to learn and apply skill.

As for the young faller, he certainly had the instincts but unfortunately young guys don't ask for qualified assistance like older & more experience guys usually will. He would have actually been complimented had he called someone over even if it was a $200 chopper cost. Thats what they need to see in this business. That they can trust you to make the right decision and calling someone when you are in a pickle will instill confidence in your Bullbucker.

Watch your P's & Q's and don't ever embarrass you Bullbucker or he will never have you back, moreover don't give him the impression you are the guy that's going to be killed on his watch

Young guy is falling a Cedar with two Hemlock gun barrels uprooted of the rock face. He cuts himself a long safety trail in the direction of the fall then goes up and cuts up the Hemlocks so they fall with the Cedar. He had no option to EXIT 3 METRES/ 10 FEET ON A "45°" TO THE ****EN HIGH SIDE OPPOSITE THE DIRECTION OF FALL or a high side cover.
He is young and THINKS he can out run it. His partner found him and it was measured 30ft from the stump, cut in half by the Hemlocks. He was SOOOO close, he needed to be 36' and was just a mere 6 ft short of getting killed another day. Don't you agree?





Instinct - non existent
Education - grade 1 page I
Ability to make the right decision - failed
Saw skills - N/A


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## madhatte

^ grim but solid


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## KiwiBro

northmanlogging said:


> wes spur and a few other folks carry these baileys maybe? taint cheap though


Thanks. Did some digging and they are around US$200. Too damaging to my wallet I'm afraid.


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## northmanlogging

I imagine some aspiring local machinist could make one fairly easily, just a big ass thread on a taper, with a ratchet attached


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## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> I imagine some aspiring local machinist could make one fairly easily, just a big ass thread on a taper, with a ratchet attached


Almost reminds me of an old splitting wedge we had around at one time.

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## Westboastfaller

bitzer said:


> Reggie likes to quote government publications.
> 
> I had forgotten that it's winter down there and the deciduous trees wouldn't have leaves. The thing is no matter what type of tree and where in the world it is the same general mechanics apply. How those mechanics are applied to the species, state of the tree, size, and situation is what makes the difference. How you employ the techniques and when determines the outcome. A successful outcome can only be gained through experience and often a little luck. In Jack's (hotsaws101) words, " by God's grace," would replace the luck. When I first started watching his videos years ago I thought it was kind of goofy. The more time I spend in the woods the more it rings true. I have a lot of respect for guys like him. Those that have cut the "big" trees for decades and still do. They have figured something out that is not in a publication.


 well said..I read this the other day and now fetching it.
^this kids going places. *smiles* eh! When you coming to to the AK? ...come to BC in two days I'll take you to Kennedy island? I'm the only faller. I'll pick you up in Hyder Ak ? This is a extremely rare opportunity considering the rules. It's a little show and it's all undercut and back cut


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## bitzer

Westboastfaller said:


> well said..I read this the other day and now fetching it.
> ^this kids going places. *smiles* eh! When you coming to to the AK? ...come to BC in two days I'll take you to Kennedy island? I'm the only faller. I'll pick you up in Hyder Ak ? This is a extremely rare opportunity considering the rules. It's a little show and it's all undercut and back cut


Believe me if it wasn't for the life I've made here I'd be there already. I don't regret much, but not being able to fall the big trees will be one. I make a good living where I'm at and I keep everyone happy. But there is still always that itch to wander.


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## northmanlogging

Westboastfaller said:


> well said..I read this the other day and now fetching it.
> ^this kids going places. *smiles* eh! When you coming to to the AK? ...come to BC in two days I'll take you to Kennedy island? I'm the only faller. I'll pick you up in Hyder Ak ? This is a extremely rare opportunity considering the rules. It's a little show and it's all undercut and back cut



This invitation open to all... cause I'm only a long days drive away... that and a passport... think mines expired. I've fell some big sticks, but nothing like you folks get to play with all day.


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## Woos31

bitzer said:


> Believe me if it wasn't for the life I've made here I'd be there already. I don't regret much, but not being able to fall the big trees will be one. I make a good living where I'm at and I keep everyone happy. But there is still always that itch to wander.


Always a different smell to the sawdust that tugs at yer shirt.............c'mon bitzer, let us go see and smell the different trees and hillsides, let's lob some hooters cross the hill, let's find out what the lore was all about. I got the itch too, every dang day!


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## Bwildered

bnmc98 said:


> You're making a stink about one tree. Every faller has walked away from a tree before so your point is worthless. Usually they find another way to get it down. The issue is you are telling people never to put a wedge in a dead tree and smack it. And now you quote some publication that recommends the same thing, but does not say "never" and its a government publication at that, which is based of fear of lawsuit so that again is worthless. I have been in the government training for chainsaw safety up here. I had to relearn just about everything when I went into logging. Their methods are designed around safety for the most inept, accident prone, underqualified, lack of common sense people out there so they don't kill themselves.
> Even after that training, I watched a guy on our crew cut completely through a railroad tie with the chain on backwards! and he never had a clue.
> You are fearful and prideful so you won't listen to anything other than what you think is right, based on other conversations we have had with you in past. And because of that you think you have the right to dispel anything anyone says that is contrary to your ideas and call what you say as gospel.
> Many of us work safe fast and efficient up here.n
> You are just afraid of some of our techniques and probably would never accept them or change your ways.
> .... that is why you would never make it up here as stated before.


You're rabbiting on about everything but an inexperienced novice falling a really dangerous tree, laden with dead branches, he just didn't know any better, over here if you know what you're doing you don't belt wedges into that type of dead tree, now he knows as it was shown in black & white writing, he also now unfortunately knows the unwritten kamikaze redneck method which could end up black & blue in the emergency dept!
Maybe it just comes down to knowing the difference between a dangerous stag tree & a less dangerous snag
Stinkinski


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## rwoods

Bw, I should not even be posting here as my livelihood isn't tied to falling trees. That said I routinely decline to cut trees that have been dead for awhile for the very reason of the overhead danger. Our large canopy oaks here are particularly dangerous as there is often no place to stand without being under a limb. Even sounding them with an axe can be hazardous. When I was younger and less concerned about life and limb, I have been showered with limbs broken just from the vibration of the saw chain. For those who must cut such hazard trees (using layman's terms here), all I can say is do so with extra caution and use whatever equipment and techniques you have to minimize vibrations and time in the danger zone. 

As you know the same applies for one using heavy equipment. About twenty years ago, my younger brother was clearing property down in Florida which had some standing dead pines. The dozer operator ignored his warnings not to push these trees over and proceeded to push one with his blade, the top broke out and landed squarely between the operator's legs. The operator wasn't hurt but it sure changed his attitude. 

I hope scheffa has reviewed his video just to watch the branches that broke free and fell once the tree began its fall. If they had been on his side of the tree, he likely would have been clobbered.

Ron


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## Westboastfaller

northmanlogging said:


> This invitation open to all... cause I'm only a long days drive away... that and a passport... think mines expired. I've fell some big sticks, but nothing like you folks get to play with all day.


 Can yoy run a Skagit swing yarder Neighbor? The one in the middle?


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## KiwiBro

northmanlogging said:


> I imagine some aspiring local machinist could make one fairly easily, just a big ass thread on a taper, with a ratchet attached


If you could have that done and expedited to San Fran for me to collect this Friday during my 1 hr stopover on the way to BC, that'll be great, thanks. Just make it out to kiwibro and send it to the avis counter and I'll look them up when I get there, if the plane isn't diverted enroute because a suspicious package was found at the airport avis kiosk, in which case I know nuthink.


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## northmanlogging

won't be back in da machine shop till friday
.. so... not likely


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## bitzer

Bwildered said:


> I don't fall much dead stuff, but they are scattered through the bush everywhere & ive had a few close calls with the tops falling out of them from just being brushed with other trees, or being bumped with a machine, I had one come down on the canopy of my dozer after I bumped the tree with the blade, I was brushing termites off the seat for hours. I fell a dozen long dead grey gum for a neighbor 6 weeks ago & the top of every one of them was in 3 or 4 pieces before they gone through 30 degrees of the fall & that was just slicing through thin air, they are really fragile. Years ago I was looking at 3120 a Faller was selling because he was finished in the game, a dead limb hit him halfway between his neck & shoulder joint, his arm was permanently paralysed & in a sling because of the nerve was so badly damaged from all the shattered bones with the impact.
> On old hotsaws, the backcut was facing the road, if something went wrong & it went the wrong way then it would have gone down across the road, the traffic should have been stopped for a couple of minutes while he dropped it, nobody needs some idiot like that lurking in the bush while your going about your business.
> Trinkski


 The backcut would be the safest facing the road I would think. Much less chance of a tree going over the back then sideways. I've cut MANY trees along roads without anyone stopping traffic. Makes me question how many trees you actually cut sir. I'm guessing you've never worked in a production situation.


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## Skeans

bitzer said:


> The backcut would be the safest facing the road I would think. Much less chance of a tree going over the back then sideways. I've cut MANY trees along roads without anyone stopping traffic. Makes me question how many trees you actually cut sir. I'm guessing you've never worked in a production situation.


Only time I've had traffic flagged on private ground is heavy back leaners, suppose to have traffic flagged here though once a saw is fired up, on Weyerhaeuser we have to flag with in 2 tree lengths no matter if it's hand or mechanically cut.

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## northmanlogging

only flag if their particullarly sketchy or if i intend to cross the road


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## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> only flag if their particullarly sketchy or if i intend to cross the road


That's one bonus to being on company ground, I wish the utility companies and phone would go to all underground lines that'd take care of that issue.

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## GilksTreeFelling

i hate above ground utilities. this pic shows the road that runs down the middle of my property for 2km, the power company uses it to run service from the main road to 3 camps on the back ems of my property you can see the lines i am always talking about in the riggt side of the pic. makes working along the road till i get my tractor running difficult. thankfully the only that can use the road is me or the power company when they are doing inspextions or maintence so i dont need to worry about traffic. still a pain in the behind trying to make sure to avoid the lines when i cut


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## Skeans

nscoyote said:


> i hate above ground utilities. this pic shows the road that runs down the middle of my property for 2km, the power company uses it to run service from the main road to 3 camps on the back ems of my property you can see the lines i am always talking about in the riggt side of the pic. makes working along the road till i get my tractor running difficult. thankfully the only that can use the road is me or the power company when they are doing inspextions or maintence so i dont need to worry about traffic. still a pain in the behind trying to make sure to avoid the lines when i cut


We got lucky on one of our pieces the utility company put everything underground but forgot to figure in rain so during heavy rains the ditch washes out and the pipe with the wires turns into old faith full.

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## Bwildered

bitzer said:


> The backcut would be the safest facing the road I would think. Much less chance of a tree going over the back then sideways. I've cut MANY trees along roads without anyone stopping traffic. Makes me question how many trees you actually cut sir. I'm guessing you've never worked in a production situation.


If the tree has a chance of reaching the road or highway in any direction then it's just common sense to protect anybody on that highway or road, unless the redneck kamikaze falling methods are all you know, which have no regard for personal safety let alone public safety and you guessed wrong as well.
Putinski


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## rwoods

Initial capital costs: Underground electrical distribution lines $$$$ Overhead distribution lines $.

Ron


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## Skeans

rwoods said:


> Initial capital costs: Underground electrical distribution lines $$$$ Overhead distribution lines $.
> 
> Ron


Out here they've been taking them from overhead to underground I think the repairs have been less especially with all the timber out here.

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## rwoods

Of course we don't have the extreme weather that you do, but to my knowledge the experience here with underground has been excellent with the exception of an older major subdivision that had a bad neutral. Dual conduits are now required; makes line replacement a lot easier and less expensive. Here underground is essentially limited to new subdivisions and core downtown. I believe a recent quote to convert two or three blocks downtown was around $2mm. Of course putting low voltage lines in a subdivision is a whole lot cheaper, but still considerably more than overhead. I believe our long line through the forest carries some pretty good voltage to service micro wave and radio tower installations. Very few of our other lines go through extensive wooded areas. Nonetheless I pester our GM about underground every time the tree trimming budget comes around as it seems to go up every year and is now around $1.2mm. Ron


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## Skeans

rwoods said:


> Of course we don't have the extreme weather that you do, but to my knowledge the experience here with underground has been excellent with the exception of an older major subdivision that had a bad neutral. Dual conduits are now required; makes line replacement a lot easier and less expensive. Here underground is essentially limited to new subdivisions and core downtown. I believe a recent quote to convert two or three blocks downtown was around $2mm. Of course putting low voltage lines in a subdivision is a whole lot cheaper, but still considerably more than overhead. I believe our long line through the forest carries some pretty good voltage to service micro wave and radio tower installations. Very few of our other lines go through extensive wooded areas. Nonetheless I pester our GM about underground every time the tree trimming budget comes around as it seems to go up every year and is now around $1.2mm. Ron


So if it here is there's enough timber companies and land owners forcing the utilities to do they aren't getting a choice especially when they aren't keeping the tension up then the lines sag and get caught on a lowboy and they are liable.

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## rwoods

Our GM runs a tight ship. Literally and figuratively. So far all the snags that I have been involved, the lines have been within the NEC guidelines. A few years ago, we did have a fire from a sagging cross-country line during an extreme load and a very hot day, but I believe it was our supplier's transmission line. In any event, it was in or near that class of high voltage. Ron


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## bitzer

Bwildered said:


> you guessed wrong as well.
> Putinski


 Then why does it seem like you have a remedial knowledge of falling timber at best? If I was having a conversation face to face and they kept giving me answers and producing statements like you do, I'd start thinking -" this guy is a step above firewood cutting". Kind of like when guys call me looking for a job falling timber. One of my first questions is, "what is your saw experience?" If the answer is I used to cut a lot of firewood then I'd ask "how much per year you think?" Usually its around 10 cords per year. Then I'm thinking I know where this is going.


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## Skeans

bitzer said:


> Then why does it seem like you have a remedial knowledge of falling timber at best? If I was having a conversation face to face and they kept giving me answers and producing statements like you do, I'd start thinking -" this guy is a step above firewood cutting". Kind of like when guys call me looking for a job falling timber. One of my first questions is, "what is your saw experience?" If the answer is I used to cut a lot of firewood then I'd ask "how much per year you think?" Usually its around 10 cords per year. Then I'm thinking I know where this is going.


10 cords now if my math is right is about 2 truck loads of logs here, which wouldn't even get green status that'd be closer to being a back faller.

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## Bwildered

bitzer said:


> Then why does it seem like you have a remedial knowledge of falling timber at best? If I was having a conversation face to face and they kept giving me answers and producing statements like you do, I'd start thinking -" this guy is a step above firewood cutting". Kind of like when guys call me looking for a job falling timber. One of my first questions is, "what is your saw experience?" If the answer is I used to cut a lot of firewood then I'd ask "how much per year you think?" Usually its around 10 cords per year. Then I'm thinking I know where this is going.


It a pity you don't live a little closer, I could take wads of money or assets off you in a friendly wager, for the self proclaimed King of the hill you don't have much worldly experience in the game and seem quite reckless in some common sense activities, which equates to self taught. Don't worry I know a lot of blokes like that who are one man bands & always will be, they can't work for other people or companies because they can't follow basic rules & regulations. Their world is getting narrower as time goes along because they are getting shutdown for their indiscretions.
Duckinski


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## Skeans

Bwildered said:


> It a pity you don't live a little closer, I could take wads of money or assets off you in a friendly wager, for the self proclaimed King of the hill you don't have much worldly experience in the game and seem quite reckless in some common sense activities, which equates to self taught. Don't worry I know a lot of blokes like that who are one man bands & always will be, they can't work for other people or companies because they can't follow basic rules & regulations. Their world is getting narrower as time goes along because they are getting shutdown for their indiscretions.
> Duckinski


I've got one good question for you have you ever production cut before?

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## Bwildered

Skeans said:


> I've got one good question for you have you ever production cut before?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


Yes & now I cut for my own sawmill & have done for 13 years, not to mention contract falling along the way for another sawmill for a couple of years, gotta laugh though at some of the stuff you guys come out with I must say.
Fafinski


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## bitzer

Bwildered said:


> It a pity you don't live a little closer, I could take wads of money or assets off you in a friendly wager, for the self proclaimed King of the hill you don't have much worldly experience in the game and seem quite reckless in some common sense activities, which equates to self taught. Don't worry I know a lot of blokes like that who are one man bands & always will be, they can't work for other people or companies because they can't follow basic rules & regulations. Their world is getting narrower as time goes along because they are getting shutdown for their indiscretions.
> Duckinski


Why would I want to work for someone when I make twice as much or more working for myself? I'm well known and respected in my area as a good producing handcutter that has the future of the forest in mind. As far as the big boys, they are parking their equipment right now because the pulp markets are so bad. I have little interest in hiring right now too. I've got plenty of work, but the industry is making a change here and I think the weak ones will be sorted out. Staying small and handcutting will keep me in the game. As far as your "self proclaimed" ********, I speak what I know and show the skills that I have. Most of my cutting is pretty straight forward. Trick cuts are just for fun and rarely used on a daily basis. I don't take any more risks than I have to. I have no one else to watch my back so I have to be careful. It's kind of like a race car driver. To the average person what they do is pretty crazy and is a little intense for them. For the driver he is used to it, knows his limitations, and has the physical and mental capabilities to keep the car on the track. When you've been doing this for a while you can pretty much tell who knows what.


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## bitzer

Skeans said:


> 10 cords now if my math is right is about 2 truck loads of logs here, which wouldn't even get green status that'd be closer to being a back faller.
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk



Ten cords is a light truck full here. I'm on a low production job right now. Small timber, lots of pulp, long skid, steep, and I'm cutting/skidding 12 cords per day. So yeah 10 cords a year doesnt qualify much.


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## Skeans

bitzer said:


> Ten cords is a light truck full here. I'm on a low production job right now. Small timber, lots of pulp, long skid, steep, and I'm cutting/skidding 12 cords per day. So yeah 10 cords a year doesnt qualify much.


Everything here is tons and board feet so it takes a bit to figure the difference. How long of skids?

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## bitzer

Just some pics from work. Nothing special. 


My son helping me crank a tire back on in the rain last Friday. 



Tallest tree on the job. Timber is on the low side of average for size on this job. Eab prevention.



Stump failure yesterday. Dead elm. She started tipping but took the stump with. I've got s firewood customer paying extra for dead wood. I did have to wedge this one a little. 




And here's one for Mr. Bewildered.


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## bitzer

Skeans said:


> Everything here is tons and board feet so it takes a bit to figure the difference. How long of skids?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


Yeah we do tons on pulpwood too. Mostly when it's going to the mill. Handcutters talk in bf more. The pulp guys in cordage/tons. It's 15 mins from the back to the landing. The hillsides dead end at planted fields and there is no turning around on the hills. Make for a lot of backing up thru thick re gen and a sore neck. I know that probably shortish for a lot of you guys, but it's not unusual to make the landing right on the woods edge or even in the woods. I usually cut 10,20,40,80 acre pieces. The bigger they get I can usually find another landing to keep the skids 5 minutes or so.


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## northmanlogging

the self loader jockeys will guarantee 8 full cord per load if they are doing fire wood, ends up around 9-10.

just before starting northman, i was cutti g around 40 cord a year with the occasional log load.. few years later and i stopped keeping track.


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## Skeans

bitzer said:


> Yeah we do tons on pulpwood too. Mostly when it's going to the mill. Handcutters talk in bf more. The pulp guys in cordage/tons. It's 15 mins from the back to the landing. The hillsides dead end at planted fields and there is no turning around on the hills. Make for a lot of backing up thru thick re gen and a sore neck. I know that probably shortish for a lot of you guys, but it's not unusual to make the landing right on the woods edge or even in the woods. I usually cut 10,20,40,80 acre pieces. The bigger they get I can usually find another landing to keep the skids 5 minutes or so.


Normally we run 1500 to 2000 feet from the landings but as far as 5000 feet all running with the bunks facing the rear or up hill.

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----------



## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> the self loader jockeys will guarantee 8 full cord per load if they are doing fire wood, ends up around 9-10.
> 
> just before starting northman, i was cutti g around 40 cord a year with the occasional log load.. few years later and i stopped keeping track.


I know we average 3 to 3500 on saw logs for footage in 25 year old thinnings, then pulp 25 to 26 tons on the turkey rack with pretty much 18' lengths.

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## northmanlogging

been getting 4200-4500 with the fir i've been in lately

3000-3700 with export so i'm trying not to send wood to them domestic paying better at lower price just isn't right


----------



## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> been getting 4200-4500 with the fir i've been in lately
> 
> 3000-3700 with export so i'm trying not to send wood to them domestic paying better at lower price just isn't right


Haven't sent any export since the crunch hit thank god but when we were we average 6500. I'm glad we're on company ground thinning everything will be good unless the pulp markets falls out again.

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## northmanlogging

export claims they are paying more.

but then they deduct 700bf and grade everything #3 or #4 and end up paying less per mbf then domestic. so not only does the scale suck then the rate is ****ed too

so from now on they only get the **** wood or sketchy mixed loads


----------



## bitzer

How are things going Matt? The skidder staying together for you? Keeping busy? Weather?


----------



## northmanlogging

bitzer said:


> How are things going Matt? The skidder staying together for you? Keeping busy? Weather?



The missus is better then ever, that clutch fix has made here scary... and somehow I get better fuel mileage too? like 3 gals a load or less. The other day I got the blade dug in and enough traction I was pushing an entire load of hemlock sideways, thats never happened.

Weather has been good up until this week red flag fire days all week, otherwise its been mostly cool and a little damp, perfect for PNW logging.

about half way to an excavator as of monday... just have to sell off some more junk and get a few more loads in.

Busy is the half of it... left here at 4:30am just got home about half hour ago...


----------



## HuskStihl

northmanlogging said:


> The missus is better then ever, that clutch fix has made here scary... and somehow I get better fuel mileage too? like 3 gals a load or less. The other day I got the blade dug in and enough traction I was pushing an entire load of hemlock sideways, thats never happened.
> 
> Weather has been good up until this week red flag fire days all week, otherwise its been mostly cool and a little damp, perfect for PNW logging.
> 
> about half way to an excavator as of monday... just have to sell off some more junk and get a few more loads in.
> 
> Busy is the half of it... left here at 4:30am just got home about half hour ago...


My daughter stole my NML shirt


----------



## rwoods

Lose shirts to mine all the time, but she always denies stealing. She prefers to view it as saving them. From what? Embarrassment? Destruction? Bar oil? To her credit, she never says. Ron


----------



## Bwildered

bitzer said:


> Why would I want to work for someone when I make twice as much or more working for myself? I'm well known and respected in my area as a good producing handcutter that has the future of the forest in mind. As far as the big boys, they are parking their equipment right now because the pulp markets are so bad. I have little interest in hiring right now too. I've got plenty of work, but the industry is making a change here and I think the weak ones will be sorted out. Staying small and handcutting will keep me in the game. As far as your "self proclaimed" ********, I speak what I know and show the skills that I have. Most of my cutting is pretty straight forward. Trick cuts are just for fun and rarely used on a daily basis. I don't take any more risks than I have to. I have no one else to watch my back so I have to be careful. It's kind of like a race car driver. To the average person what they do is pretty crazy and is a little intense for them. For the driver he is used to it, knows his limitations, and has the physical and mental capabilities to keep the car on the track. When you've been doing this for a while you can pretty much tell who knows what.


I never said you would ever work for someone, just hinted that more than likely you couldn't , don't worry it doesn't get any better with age, just ask me I'm older & forgotten half the things I've been doing for a long while.
Slashski


----------



## northmanlogging

HuskStihl said:


> My daughter stole my NML shirt


didja ever get to wear it?


----------



## bnmc98

bitzer said:


> Just some pics from work. Nothing special.
> 
> 
> My son helping me crank a tire back on in the rain last Friday.
> View attachment 520371



Hmmmm.... Id say that's pretty special.


----------



## bitzer

bnmc98 said:


> Hmmmm.... Id say that's pretty special.


Yeah I suppose you're right. He's only ten but I've been trying to get him out there doing things like that with me more and more. He had fun in the rain. He helped me put leaf springs and shocks in the truck the weekend before. He's not ready for cutting yet tho. His mom is not ready to let me take him anyway. Just to have him tag a long for a little bit.


----------



## Woos31

Westboastfaller said:


> I would invite you to post this in" Do you know what tree is going to kill you" for discussion as awareness is the point of the video as well the thread.
> Very powerful video.
> 
> Thnx


Yes please do!! Jack is a helluva guy and a better faller. To hear a guy like Jack kinda break up over his buddy and being in the very spot would be a tough strip to finish..................love to watch this man dump trees!


----------



## Woos31

bitzer said:


> Yeah I suppose you're right. He's only ten but I've been trying to get him out there doing things like that with me more and more. He had fun in the rain. He helped me put leaf springs and shocks in the truck the weekend before. He's not ready for cutting yet tho. His mom is not ready to let me take him anyway. Just to have him tag a long for a little bit.


Good on ya bitzer for teaching him any and all things homeland security (wife) will allow and that he wants to learn. Not enough learning any like that in the upcoming generations I believe. Ida give anything to go to the woods with my dad or grandpa or whomever when I was a kid..........but the owl cut my ol man out of it and I never got the in depth learnin other than some of the cutting side and that was just geared at firewood, he wouldn't teach me about production cutting cuz he knew I'd go do it like he did.


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## HuskStihl

northmanlogging said:


> didja ever get to wear it?




No


----------



## young bucker

Right of way puss in wakeman sound


----------



## Westboastfaller

Bitzer, too bad you couldn't have made the trip, I new it was a long shot. It was a personal invite to you as you spoke of coming this way with your family. I could have used a guy that's up for a challenge as I prefer not to see 'em bigger than 5', harder work! I'm not a natural big wood faller myself. I'm too impatient. probably cut the 7' cedar tomorrow and the 6' snag pictured below. I brought up a friend to work with me but not much for experience out here. He is doing fine on the bar size. I'm keeping him close. steep but clean ground.

'Fogust' morning ... sometimes it feels like you are on the inside of a ping-pong ball.

Start of a helli pad just in the event of an accident but we take a water taxi and have trucks barged over there
There will be two 6'" stringer's. one from the bottom stump(right) then to the tree that isn't felled yet. the next to the bottom left stump then with go to the ground. Then planked with 4" planks.


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## rwoods

Beautiful country. Ron


----------



## Westboastfaller

Springboarding a snag today. Got a little video of me tree bowling


----------



## madhatte

OK, so here's one I pulled yesterday on a fire. This is a 46" DF, burned about halfway through on one side, threatening the line. I got the instruction to get it down; the Gradall standing by didn't quite have the ass to break it so here's how I ended up cutting it. I did everything super-slowly -- I had no idea where the charred wood ended, the rotten wood was, or where the fire-hardened junk was. I was also about 2 ft short bar-wise (28" bar, 46" tree) so I walked it around from one side to the other and used the catface as my face, since the CG had already tipped forward into that not-quite-lean . Gutted the center from the back. Jacked and wedged until it went over. Jack, wedge, lather/rinse/repeat. The crew member I borrowed as second saw to work the wedges had never seen a jack used before so that was cool. The right side turned out to be more rotten than the left so when it broke, it tipped about 30 degrees off where I gunned it but no biggie. Got close to the red line, pulled away with the wedges, repeated until it went over. Probably 120 ft tall, maybe 5-10 tons total, right angle to the wind. Most of the force was used to break fibers since I didn't know how thick my hinge was. Worked really well, especially for how slow I kept things, lots of time for considering what needed nipped and where to place wedges. When I got it down, the Gradall simply picked up the mess and moved it out of the road. I freakin' love machinery.





(sooner or later RandyMac is gonna roll through here and call me a fiber puller!)


----------



## Skeans

madhatte said:


> OK, so here's one I pulled yesterday on a fire. This is a 46" DF, burned about halfway through on one side, threatening the line. I got the instruction to get it down; the Gradall standing by didn't quite have the ass to break it so here's how I ended up cutting it. I did everything super-slowly -- I had no idea where the charred wood ended, the rotten wood was, or where the fire-hardened junk was. I was also about 2 ft short bar-wise (28" bar, 46" tree) so I walked it around from one side to the other and used the catface as my face, since the CG had already tipped forward into that not-quite-lean . Gutted the center from the back. Jacked and wedged until it went over. Jack, wedge, lather/rinse/repeat. The crew member I borrowed as second saw to work the wedges had never seen a jack used before so that was cool. The right side turned out to be more rotten than the left so when it broke, it tipped about 30 degrees off where I gunned it but no biggie. Got close to the red line, pulled away with the wedges, repeated until it went over. Probably 120 ft tall, maybe 5-10 tons total, right angle to the wind. Most of the force was used to break fibers since I didn't know how thick my hinge was. Worked really well, especially for how slow I kept things, lots of time for considering what needed nipped and where to place wedges. When I got it down, the Gradall simply picked up the mess and moved it out of the road. I freakin' love machinery.
> 
> 
> View attachment 521810
> 
> 
> (sooner or later RandyMac is gonna roll through here and call me a fiber puller!)


Nothing like a small jack to get the job done.

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## madhatte

Skeans said:


> Nothing like a small jack to get the job done.



Handy little bastids, ain't they?


----------



## bitzer

Westboastfaller said:


> Bitzer, too bad you couldn't have made the trip, I new it was a long shot. It was a personal invite to you as you spoke of coming this way with your family. I could have used a guy that's up for a challenge as I prefer not to see 'em bigger than 5', harder work! I'm not a natural big wood faller myself. I'm too impatient. probably cut the 7' cedar tomorrow and the 6' snag pictured below. I brought up a friend to work with me but not much for experience out here. He is doing fine on the bar size. I'm keeping him close. steep but clean ground.
> 
> 'Fogust' morning ... sometimes it feels like you are on the inside of a ping-pong ball.
> 
> Start of a helli pad just in the event of an accident but we take a water taxi and have trucks barged over there
> There will be two 6'" stringer's. one from the bottom stump(right) then to the tree that isn't felled yet. the next to the bottom left stump then with go to the ground. Then planked with 4" planks.View attachment 521637
> View attachment 521639
> View attachment 521640
> View attachment 521641
> View attachment 521642


I appreciate it man! I'd love to do it. Bunch of unexpected bills all at once and it keeps raining this year. Just scratching pennies together right now hoping for a nickel. I turned downed hammerlogging a few years ago to cut some heli wood out on the east coast. He was probably only a half days drive from me. just couldn't swing it then either. it was a long winter here and I had swamps to lay down. gotta do what you gotta do. Looks like some ugly wood there but I'd love to give it a shot. I'm always up for a challenge and I have no problem taking advice from experienced guys on the job. I like walking out of the woods at the end of the day. Thanks for putting up pics! I like seeing other guys out in the ****. I haven't cut anything worth noting for a while. Keep em coming. It's fun to see.


----------



## bitzer

madhatte said:


> OK, so here's one I pulled yesterday on a fire. This is a 46" DF, burned about halfway through on one side, threatening the line. I got the instruction to get it down; the Gradall standing by didn't quite have the ass to break it so here's how I ended up cutting it. I did everything super-slowly -- I had no idea where the charred wood ended, the rotten wood was, or where the fire-hardened junk was. I was also about 2 ft short bar-wise (28" bar, 46" tree) so I walked it around from one side to the other and used the catface as my face, since the CG had already tipped forward into that not-quite-lean . Gutted the center from the back. Jacked and wedged until it went over. Jack, wedge, lather/rinse/repeat. The crew member I borrowed as second saw to work the wedges had never seen a jack used before so that was cool. The right side turned out to be more rotten than the left so when it broke, it tipped about 30 degrees off where I gunned it but no biggie. Got close to the red line, pulled away with the wedges, repeated until it went over. Probably 120 ft tall, maybe 5-10 tons total, right angle to the wind. Most of the force was used to break fibers since I didn't know how thick my hinge was. Worked really well, especially for how slow I kept things, lots of time for considering what needed nipped and where to place wedges. When I got it down, the Gradall simply picked up the mess and moved it out of the road. I freakin' love machinery.
> 
> 
> View attachment 521810
> 
> 
> (sooner or later RandyMac is gonna roll through here and call me a fiber puller!)


Nice work man. Probably a little pucker factor on that one.


----------



## madhatte

bitzer said:


> Nice work man. Probably a little pucker factor on that one.



Yer dang right there was a bit of pucker factor! Thanks, yo!


----------



## rwoods

madhatte, I am curious as to why you didn't center the jack. I've never jacked one and probably won't given our easier / more accessible terrain. Thanks, Ron


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## Trx250r180

Look at the stump closer Ron,wedges in center,the jack does not do all the work.


----------



## rwoods

Being an igmo, I would have thought the protocol would be jack in middle with wedges on each side. Also wonder if the jack placement contributed to the less than intended results.

Ron


----------



## Skeans

rwoods said:


> Being an igmo, I would have thought the protocol would be jack in middle with wedges on each side. Ron


Depends on the situation lean, holding wood, branch weight, as well as wind.

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## rwoods

I see I was adding to my post as you were posting. Many variables other than centering the lift. Should apply to wedging as well. Never thought about that before now. Ron


----------



## Trx250r180

rwoods said:


> Being an igmo, I would have thought the protocol would be jack in middle with wedges on each side. Also wonder if the jack placement contributed to the less than intended results.
> 
> Ron


Jacking to me is just a helper if the wedges wont tip it,the wedges were most likely in the middle,and that side was a ftee spot to use for the jacl


----------



## bitzer

I typically put the jack in the low corner. In our hardwoods usually the tree has some side lean/weight as well as the back lean. How/where the back is lifted has some effect on how the tree gets to the tipping point. Once in motion you rely on the hold wood and face for the rest.


----------



## madhatte

Exactly right. Also, it's easier to hang a jack off of a side than the center; that would require a long enough jack seat that it might be difficult or impossible to leave room for wedges, or deep enough to threaten the hinge, depending on the tree. In this case, there wasn't really a "low" side -- I just chose the side with the best escape route. It's possible that the jack could have ripped the hinge off, but that's neither a problem nor important since ripping the hinge off was what I wanted in the first place here. Remember that it was both burned and rotten. In this case, had I chosen the other side for the seat, it would likely have held on better since there was more sapwood that wasn't badly damaged there. I flipped a coin on that one, really, so "escape route" was a good a criterion for choosing a side as anything else.


----------



## Westboastfaller

BC Bowling 101


----------



## rwoods

madhatte, thanks for the explanation. Ron


----------



## bitzer

Westboastfaller said:


> BC Bowling 101



What kind of tree was the pusher? For a brief second almost looks like hardwood.


----------



## HuskStihl

Westboastfaller said:


> BC Bowling 101



Fiber puller!


----------



## Woos31

Westboastfaller said:


> View attachment 521793
> View attachment 521794
> View attachment 521795
> View attachment 521796
> Springboarding a snag today. Got a little video of me tree bowling


Nice pictures pard and I'm diggin the springboard action, not often seen


----------



## Skeans

bitzer said:


> What kind of tree was the pusher? For a brief second almost looks like hardwood.


Either be a hemlock, doug fir, or a spruce but it doesn't have the flare of a spruce or hemlock.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


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## 1270d

Skeans when are you invading the Midwest?


----------



## Westboastfaller

HuskStihl said:


> Fiber puller!


Well I do try my best....to pull fiber, snap 'em over stumps and spike 'em into to ground. What do they expect for $107.69 an hour. 2.9 cents for the second that changes or ends yout life.
There is way more work than experienced fallers. Hell, I got payed up and think I'll cut for someone else tomorrow. **** 'em

Yes I would hang in the cut longer if I wasn't overcoming a falling difficultly.
OK I lied, it was more for the crash effect as the Cedar was lifting. Buckers long butt all the Hemlocks anyway


----------



## 1270d

Westboastfaller said:


> Buckers long butt all the Hemlocks anyway



Is there rot or is it Shakey?


----------



## HuskStihl

Westboastfaller said:


> Well I do try my best....to pull fiber, snap 'em over stumps and spike 'em into to ground. What do they expect for $107.69 an hour. 2.9 cents for the second that changes or ends yout life.
> There is way more work than experienced fallers. Hell, I got payed up and think I'll cut for someone else tomorrow. **** 'em
> 
> Yes I would hang in the cut longer if I wasn't overcoming a falling difficultly.
> OK I lied, it was more for the crash effect as the Cedar was lifting. Buckers long butt all the Hemlocks anyway


Ha! I'm not fit to carry u'r bar oil! Take it for the **** it is.


----------



## Skeans

1270d said:


> Skeans when are you invading the Midwest?


We might come back to the show if not we'll be back in October is what I'm told, hopefully soon the days are numbered for that 653 I spend more time wrenching on it then it spends working anymore. Can you do me a favor and ask your operator if the left side of the Gullwing blocks his line of sight to the left?

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## 1270d

He says side visibility is slightly less than the old one on the right side from the seat. And he wishes they didn't block the view straight back. Loves the big top window.


----------



## Skeans

1270d said:


> He says side visibility is slightly less than the old one on the right side from the seat. And he wishes they didn't block the view straight back. Loves the big top window.


Well that means we're down to a used Timberpro, Barko, or a cat 501. To be honest I'm not personally thrilled about the cat machine partially the dealer here and the fact I can get locked out of a piece of equipment again for parts.

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## 1270d

Skeans said:


> Well that means we're down to a used Timberpro, Barko, or a cat 501. To be honest I'm not personally thrilled about the cat machine partially the dealer here and the fact I can get locked out of a piece of equipment again for parts
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk



A friend of mine had a2014' 501 that had a lot of problems. He ran a new Barko with a southstar head a few times on demo. Said it was twice the machine the 501 was. In the end the bought a ponsse


----------



## Westboastfaller

bitzer said:


> What kind of tree was the pusher? For a brief second almost looks like hardwood.


 Western Hemlock. I agree with what you are staying. I have often thought on some of the tree ID threads it was Hemlock but turned out it was a hardwood tree.


----------



## Westboastfaller

1270d said:


> Is there rot or is it Shakey?


 shake, weather check, rot,flair.

It may change from job to job. If it's heli then we would do it on everything but red cedar on the hill


----------



## HuskStihl

Westboastfaller said:


> shake, weather check, rot,flair.
> 
> It may change from job to job. If it's heli then we would do it on everything but red cedar on the hill


I understood everything in this poast except "weather check". What is that and why would it make you want to cut higher than normal?


----------



## 1270d

Almost all of our eastern hemlock is Shakey. Nice looking trees but only good for pulp unless they're in a really dense stand


----------



## Westboastfaller

HuskStihl said:


> I understood everything in this poast except "weather check". What is that and why would it make you want to cut higher than normal?


http://blog.spib.org/shakes-checks-and-splits-in-dimension-lumber/
Splits

I believe they are all very similar. In dimension lumber it's basically a split as it splits between grow rings and is often caused when drying or drying incorrectly.
Shake is a separation with the grain and check is across the grain.
Definition of a split on a full tree would be visual from the outside.

*Edit 3ft off the butt may turn the tree into export saw log when it comes to shake & check,


----------



## Westboastfaller

Westboastfaller said:


> http://blog.spib.org/shakes-checks-and-splits-in-dimension-lumber/
> Splits
> 
> I believe they are all very similar. In dimension lumber it's basically a split as it splits between grow rings and is often caused when drying or drying incorrectly.
> Shake is a separation with the grain and check is across the grain.
> Definition of a split on a full tree would be visual from the outside.
> 
> *Edit 3ft off the butt may turn the tree into export saw log when it comes to shake & check,



Sorry I apologize there will be no more tree pictures from BC. Apparently we ran out of tree's...AND water.. CRAZY! Thats what happens when fallers are no longer hand picked, All the tree planter's do the BC falling course and become fallers. Now who's going to plant your tree's? Boy they didn't see that coming.

Sorry that was a misleading description on my part when I said checking crosses the grain; meaning end grain from an end grain view (grow rings) Its best never to describe grain as it can confuse the matter. I think you understood what I meant. Shake is a separation running with the grow rings and checking the splits are "90°" creating little squares. Hence the name checking (checker)


----------



## Westboastfaller

Found a few more tree so I guess there will be more falling pics from BC.
Afew pics from the beaver


----------



## Westboastfaller




----------



## HuskStihl

Amazing. Nice to know that even exists!


----------



## northmanlogging

If they ever let you out of Texas, you should wander on up to the PNW... its a tiny bit purdy up here...


Just Don't Move Here!


----------



## Gologit

Jon


northmanlogging said:


> If they ever let you out of Texas, you should wander on up to the PNW... its a tiny bit purdy up here...
> 
> 
> Just Don't Move Here!


 

Jon would probably fit right in. He'd have to do something about that accent though.


----------



## dancan

Here's a logging vid , an odd one though , can't understand a word but there's even old B/W footage of old Mac saws cutting wood .
Old timey logging .


----------



## Westboastfaller

Heli pad and an evaluation today for me.
First full day here as we got pulled of the hill on Friday because we exceeded the allowable rain fall within a time period. Saturday morning we were over again so no work yesterday. Looks like we will be opening up and making pads so they can place more fallers. They will longline our gear to us.

An escapee! a ripper getting loose. Barge of cedar going south on thusday from Ocean Falls heading for inside passage.


----------



## Trx250r180

Great pictures.


----------



## Woos31

Westboastfaller said:


> View attachment 524943
> 
> Heli pad and an evaluation today for me.
> First full day here as we got pulled of the hill on Friday because we exceeded the allowable rain fall within a time period. Saturday morning we were over again so no work yesterday. Looks like we will be opening up and making pads so they can place more fallers. They will longline our gear to us.
> 
> An escapee! a ripper getting loose. Barge of cedar going south on thusday from Ocean Falls heading for inside passage.
> View attachment 524944
> View attachment 524945


Awesome pictures pard, I enjoy seeing parts of ma nature that very few have seen or worked


----------



## Westboastfaller

theres a few picts of camp, and a 6 ft spruce


----------



## hseII

Westboastfaller said:


> View attachment 525555
> View attachment 525554
> View attachment 525553
> View attachment 525552
> View attachment 525553
> theres a few picts of camp, and a 6 ft spruce



My, what a strange recoil cover you have.

Awesome Pictures of the real world.


----------



## Big_Wood

Westboastfaller said:


> View attachment 525555
> View attachment 525554
> View attachment 525552
> View attachment 525553
> theres a few picts of camp, and a 6 ft spruce



having worked on the boom sticks that last pic is all negativity for me lol stoked to get out there bud! i see they have 2 500's so they must get everyone out pretty quick.


----------



## mdavlee

hseII said:


> My, what a strange recoil cover you have.
> 
> Awesome Pictures of the real world.


Probably a hacked up saw


----------



## hseII

mdavlee said:


> Probably a hacked up saw



I actually searched the 375 last night.

And then I see my Tennessee Neighbor has a hand in it, so it's all good. 

Pretty cool that you've got stuff up there and they like it.


----------



## mdavlee

I've sent 4 cylinders up there so far to guys. All 372 and they run 36" bars on them.


----------



## HuskStihl

If a SuperMike375 is anything like a SuperMike288, it would have no problem pulling a 36"


----------



## Westboastfaller

hseII said:


> My, what a strange recoil cover you have.
> 
> Awesome Pictures of the real world.





mdavlee said:


> Probably a hacked up saw


 lol As you know Mike, the 75 cc 51.4 mm or what you simply refer to as XPW was never marketed here. Some of us just knew it existed from the Husqvarna 375 k concrete cutter. Pilion's saw shop has built a bunch for the coast here and order the stickers and put them on for the customers. When I was in Walker's saw shop buying up the store, I asked if he could order them and he handed me a couple and said I was lucky because he had an order to build 10 saws and had extras. Hacked up saw ..jeez..I think it goes good because of the Walker's 375 K sticker lol


----------



## Westboastfaller

HuskStihl said:


> If a SuperMike375 is anything like a SuperMike288, it would have no problem pulling a 36"


You guy's will see it in action before long,
Next time out I will get a GoPro but for now I'm doubled up with one of my supervisors opening up and making a heli pad each day. 6th day and sixth helipad. Hopefully in a few days we will have enough so I can jump in somewhere.
Then I can get some film I hope.
Thats the 375 in the video a few pages back but buddy was a little late starting the vid.


----------



## Westboastfaller

westcoaster90 said:


> having worked on the boom sticks that last pic is all negativity for me lol stoked to get out there bud! i see they have 2 500's so they must get everyone out pretty quick.


Oh yeah, the pilot said we are fast, between one & two points at 6 minutes a point. So say 10 minutes to get us all on or off the hill. When I was here with the other company in June, they didn't have any helicopters for a bit and we all shared the 206, now that was slow, the guy would do four trips and fuel up. The Riggers and Virtol are in Spiller this week logging so thats nice.lol see ya Thursday.


----------



## mdavlee

Westboastfaller said:


> lol As you know Mike, the 75 cc 51.4 mm or what you simply refer to as XPW was never marketed here. Some of us just knew it existed from the Husquavarna 375 k concrete cutter. Pilion's saw shop has built a bunch for the coast here and order the stickers and put them on for the customers. When I was in Walker's saw shop buying up the store, I asked if he could order them and he handed me a couple and said I was lucky because he had an order to build 10 saws and had extras. Hacked up saw ..jeez..I think it goes good because of the Walker's 375 K sticker lol


Now all the 372s are 71cc with the xtorq there's no difference in the xpw.


----------



## Woos31

Westboastfaller said:


> You guy's will see it in action before long,
> Next time out I will get a GoPro but for now I'm doubled up with one of my supervisors opening up and making a heli pad each day. 6th day and sixth helipad. Hopefully in a few days we will have enough so I can jump in somewhere.
> Then I can get some film I hope.
> Thats the 375 in the video a few pages back but buddy was a little late starting the vid.


Awesome pictures pard and I can't wait till you can tote the go pro on yet forehead and show us a day with Jamie lol. Safe cuttin bro


----------



## 1270d

There is a guy whose photos I enjoy on Instagram who apparently passed away recently. Username westcoastfaller. He was a Canadian faller, always putting pics and vids of big sticks on the coast. Wondering if anyone knows him, or what happened.


----------



## bnmc98

Westboastfaller said:


> View attachment 525555
> View attachment 525554
> View attachment 525552
> View attachment 525553
> theres a few picts of camp, and a 6 ft spruce



Simply amazing pictures and scenery. My heart has always been on the coast. We had a boat when I was growing up in the Seattle area and went all over puget sound and lower BC. Now I am land locked here in MT. Gosh I love and miss the salty west coast
You have the best of both worlds.


----------



## Westboastfaller

Woos31 said:


> Awesome pictures pard and I can't wait till you can tote the go pro on yet forehead and show us a day with Jamie lol. Safe cuttin bro


How's she going Brad? Hope things are all good me man. Today would have been a good day for the GoPro. You guys could have watched me get beat down trying to open up in big wood.
Foged out the morning so just a 5 hour day so we tried to kill off a little block. I didn't get to far. We both had to spring board today. Here's a Sp



ruce stick and a 74" Cedar. The cedar was on the lower boundary leaning down. Managed to lay it out and springboard for the back cut. The cut the saw was in was just to hold it for the pic. Humboldt complete but haven't cut my swanson yet in the pic. First two 3. 8 metre 12 ft shingle butts will be riped in half (rippers)by the riggers. Too heavy to fly.
Cedar schoolmarm blown down and a split ugly cedar.


----------



## northmanlogging

hey you guys wanna hurry up and finish scalping BC so our poor timber prices can come back up...


----------



## Westboastfaller

1270d said:


> There is a guy whose photos I enjoy on Instagram who apparently passed away recently. Username westcoastfaller. He was a Canadian faller, always putting pics and vids of big sticks on the coast. Wondering if anyone knows him, or what happened.


 The internet has been real bad since yesterday and I only have my phone but I believe thats Ian that past on Sunday, If you look at Campbell River Mirror in the obituary there is a pic of him holding a Salmon. You may be able to tell better. I didn't know him, pretty young guy but most of the crew here worked with him up 'till a few months ago when ATF dispersed. Some are flying out to the funeral and others will choose not to because its to hard on the head as they would have to fly back and finish their shift.. its like going through it twice. A lot of us donated a days pay, myself included. One guy was torn between going, I told him last night; life is for the living and you can meet up with him another time. Not much for details, other that another snag top. I hear his dad has been posting alot on FB? If its not him then give me more details like a Name and I'll likely give you the story.


----------



## Woos31

Westboastfaller said:


> How's she going Brad? Hope things are all good me man. Today would have been a good day for the GoPro. You guys could have watched me get beat down trying to open up in big wood.
> Foged out the morning so just a 5 hour day so we tried to kill off a little block. I didn't get to far. We both had to spring board today. Here's a SpView attachment 525790
> View attachment 525789
> View attachment 525788
> View attachment 525778
> ruce stick and a 74" Cedar. The cedar was on the lower boundary leaning down. Managed to lay it out and springboard for the back cut. The cut the saw was in was just to hold it for the pic. Humboldt complete but haven't cut my swanson yet in the pic. First two 3. 8 metre 12 ft shingle butts will be riped in half (rippers)by the riggers. Too heavy to fly.
> Cedar schoolmarm blown down and a split ugly cedar.


We're doing well Jamie, and I'm glad to see you're reducing the BC shade lol. Those are some nice sticks except that split up ugly cedar, that one don't look like much fun. Hope fog lifts for you guys and cut safe pard


----------



## Woos31

Westboastfaller said:


> The internet has been real bad since yesterday and I only have my phone but I believe thats Ian that past on Sunday, If you look at Campbell River Mirror in the obituary there is a pic of him holding a Salmon. You may be able to tell better. I didn't know him, pretty young guy but most of the he crew here worked with him up 'till a few months ago when ATF dispersed. Some are flying out to the funeral and others will choose not to because its to hard on the head as they would have to fly back and finish their shift.. its like going through itt twice. A lot of us donated a days pay, myself included. One guy was torn between going, I told him last night, life is for the living, and you can meet up with him soon. Not much for details, other that another snag top. I hear his dad has been posting alot on FB? If its not him then give me more details like a Name and I'll likely give you the story.


Man I hate to hear of another guy lost in the bush, too many men give er while in the bush and I could only imagine what it's like for those attending service the fly back for the last half of shift. Its a hard way sometimes to think of it but you're bang on pard.........life's for living and like my uncle Buzz Martin says..........they'll all get a piece of every logger's reward.......


----------



## 1270d

Westboastfaller said:


> The internet has been real bad since yesterday and I only have my phone but I believe thats Ian that past on Sunday, If you look at Campbell River Mirror in the obituary there is a pic of him holding a Salmon. You may be able to tell better. I didn't know him, pretty young guy but most of the he crew here worked with him up 'till a few months ago when ATF dispersed. Some are flying out to the funeral and others will choose not to because its to hard on the head as they would have to fly back and finish their shift.. its like going through itt twice. A lot of us donated a days pay, myself included. One guy was torn between going, I told him last night, life is for the living, and you can meet up with him soon. Not much for details, other that another snag top. I hear his dad has been posting alot on FB? If its not him then give me more details like a Name and I'll likely give you the story.



Yes I believe it was a fellow named Ian...


----------



## Big_Wood

Westboastfaller said:


> How's she going Brad? Hope things are all good me man. Today would have been a good day for the GoPro. You guys could have watched me get beat down trying to open up in big wood.
> Foged out the morning so just a 5 hour day so we tried to kill off a little block. I didn't get to far. We both had to spring board today. Here's a SpView attachment 525790
> View attachment 525789
> View attachment 525788
> View attachment 525778
> ruce stick and a 74" Cedar. The cedar was on the lower boundary leaning down. Managed to lay it out and springboard for the back cut. The cut the saw was in was just to hold it for the pic. Humboldt complete but haven't cut my swanson yet in the pic. First two 3. 8 metre 12 ft shingle butts will be riped in half (rippers)by the riggers. Too heavy to fly.
> Cedar schoolmarm blown down and a split ugly cedar.



Jamie, might i suggest firing that big wood straight down the hill to open up 



northmanlogging said:


> hey you guys wanna hurry up and finish scalping BC so our poor timber prices can come back up...



state side coast may be scalped but BC has a long way to go. you, jamie, and i will be dead before it's all gone. i'm just happy i caught the tail end of the old growth  i was cutting on the line last month, did you hear my saw? lol


----------



## northmanlogging

nah... I was on one of our inner sound islands making my own racket. (Camano)


----------



## Big_Wood

northmanlogging said:


> nah... I was on one of our inner sound islands making my own racket. (Camano)



you guys have a fire down there? i could see smoke from the hill i was working. i was watching your countries timber burn while i was cutting ours


----------



## Westboastfaller

Fire good! That ought to help the prices for him..lol @northmanlogging, we know the feeling. Obuma killed our gas and oil industry.You need to get an Asian connection. No one makes money logging. Who do you think we cut for? Columbia helicopters (Helifor) they fly that virtol for a year to make a million. They make 10,000,000 with their machines in Afghanistan.


----------



## Westboastfaller

westcoaster90 said:


> Jamie, might i suggest firing that big wood straight down the hill to open up
> 
> 
> Your junk goes down and your product goes side... hopefully. Got a truck load out of it, I'd call for the jack first. If i know It will be garbage and leaning down on the line I'll leave it standing waste.
> 
> 
> 
> state side coast may be scalped but BC has a long way to go. you, jamie, and i will be dead before it's all gone. i'm just happy i caught the tail end of the old growth lol




When you getting here? Thursday right. Your just going to have to show me. Haha
You pound 50 metre of cedar out off the block when its avoidable then you will get fired for making a mess. Don't ask me how I know that..lol NO!it hasn't happened to me.

Your junk goes down and your product goes side... hopefully. Got a truck load out of it, I'd call for the jack first. If i know It will be garbage and leaning down on the line I'll leave it standing waste.

BC is the Titanic of the land,thats crazy!"she's unsinkable" 150 yrs and we haven't begun to peel back the wrapper. It wont be all gone, its a sustainable resource. If we leave a tree inside the block then that is considered standing waste thats taking up room for the next rotation. if it doesn't make the grade then they want it on the ground.


----------



## northmanlogging

westcoaster90 said:


> you guys have a fire down there? i could see smoke from the hill i was working. i was watching your countries timber burn while i was cutting ours



so first off, thats mean

Last I heard the west side of the cascades has been put out, while the Olympics are burning and the east side is burning.

Management would change a bunch of things like fire around these parts.


----------



## Big_Wood

northmanlogging said:


> so first off, thats mean
> 
> Last I heard the west side of the cascades has been put out, while the Olympics are burning and the east side is burning.
> 
> Management would change a bunch of things like fire around these parts.



Yep it was mean. That's why the smiley. Trust me, I'd rather watch you guys cut your timber then have to watch it burn.


----------



## Woos31

Westboastfaller said:


> When you getting here? Thursday right. Your just going to have to show me. Haha
> You pound 50 metre of cedar out off the block when its avoidable then you will get fired for making a mess. Don't ask me how I know that..lol NO!it hasn't happened to me.
> 
> Your junk goes down and your product goes side... hopefully. Got a truck load out of it, I'd call for the jack first. If i know It will be garbage and leaning down on the line I'll leave it standing waste.
> 
> BC is the Titanic of the land,thats crazy!"she's unsinkable" 150 yrs and we haven't begun to peel back the wrapper. It wont be all gone, its a sustainable resource. If we leave a tree inside the block then that is considered standing waste thats taking up room for the next rotation. if it doesn't make the grade then they want it on the ground.


Maybe some US people should go study under that concept.


----------



## Woos31

northmanlogging said:


> so first off, thats mean
> 
> Last I heard the west side of the cascades has been put out, while the Olympics are burning and the east side is burning.
> 
> Management would change a bunch of things like fire around these parts.


You ain't a sh*ttin pard, fire is the cash cow though so why would they wanna reduce the risk by thinning


----------



## Woos31

westcoaster90 said:


> Yep it was mean. That's why the smiley. Trust me, I'd rather watch you guys cut your timber then have to watch it burn.


I hate seeing anyone's timber on fire


----------



## Westboastfaller

Woos31 said:


> Maybe some US people should go study under that concept.


I am not familiar with the practices there, We have adopted a lot of our reforestation practices from Sweden.
It has been said we were 20 years late to get on the program ourselves.


Woos31 said:


> You ain't a sh*ttin pard, fire is the cash cow though so why would they wanna reduce the risk by thinning


 no I was sh*ttin..kinda but controlled burns will reduce the fuels to help prevent interface disasters much like they just had in Ft Mac Alberta this past spring. I'm not following you as to what you mean by cash cow, for who?


----------



## northmanlogging

I think he means the FS and various fire fighting contractors?

I don't agree but what ev's

The forest service is pretty much bankrupt, partly because of the cost of fighting these massive fires (thanks prevailing wage) and partly because they get sued every time they try to make some revenue by having a timber sale.

In the end the only people making any money at it are the fire fighters themselves, the fuel sales guys, contractors and maybe the local quickee marts... otherwise its just a massive drain, and a complete waste. I hear that wild fire pays pretty good, but its also a pain in the ass to get certified to work a fire, and then yer risking life and limb so the money is well earned. And I imagine that the machinery side pays good too, but you pretty much have to have modern expensive equipment and even more certs... so once again its well earned.

Manage those forests and you could have true sustainable income for those communities, rather then just a shot in the arm after a stab in the back every 5-10 years.


----------



## Woos31

Westboastfaller said:


> I am not familiar with the practices there, We have adopted a lot of our reforestation practices from Sweden.
> It has been said we were 20 years late to get on the program ourselves.
> no I was sh*ttin..kinda but controlled burns will reduce the fuels to help prevent interface disasters much like they just had in Ft Mac Alberta this past spring. I'm not following you as to what you mean by cash cow, for who?


It seems to me the practices in the lower 48 are to log a little as necessary to maintain supply and trade, but it also to me anyway that most would rather see it stand and rot as to utilize what's here to renew the next go round. Now thinning doesn't cure all and I understand that even though that's my comment 90% of the time. However in my hometown I grew up in almost no thinning has been done for a long long time and as a result many catestrophic fires have claimed the forests also no salvage logging was allowed. With neither of those operations taking place tells me banking on fire to pay

My comment about fire being the cash cow is there are millions of dollars set aside for fire suppression annually and very few control burns to minimize ladder fuel along with thinning in my opinion. So without timber minded folk in federal agencies anymore, I'm watching the forest I grew to know as a child up to present being burnt and left for rot along with the mills, towns, and schools that were dependant on those timber dollars. Fires have the fuel abundance to reach catastrophe size very quickly and then that's when the dollars pour into small communities because there's no more logging and those towns can double in size with a fire camp anywhere within 50 miles, that and recreation be it hunting or tourism but other than that it's the only other revenue. The county I grew up in out in eastern oregon had 6-7 mills running and plenty of wood to go through them. Now one is barely able to keep the doors open and other than the cattle industry and ranchers the only other jobs are county and state road departments, or a self employeed mechanic, or ranch hand that gets a house supplied by the ranch. Otherwise fire is the other big payout. My father in law was a wildland firefighter for over 30 years and said there would be more and more big fires every year because without other people besides forest service working in the woods there's no way to keep up with under brush and densities. Now I'm not knocking any firefighters whatsoever because you folks are a special breed in your own right for what you do and provide to everyone who is running from fire while you're running in. I'm saying that there's plenty out there for both sides of the fence to manage the woods proper and there's still gonna be fire there's no way around it. But man it sure would be nice to prevent the extra devastation and then salvage what's not nuked. Maybe that's too simple minded of me to think but it's just my 2 bits anyway, so please anyone who has more info please share because I don't get what's goin on. Well............I do to some degree..............I know there a lot of issues and groups that prevent a lot as well, but wouldn't you think tree lovin folks don't wanna see them burned either? Like Craig and Terry sang, the logger and the tree planter show up will in to fight their turn; but you don't ever see an activist or club showin up on a major burn.


----------



## Woos31

northmanlogging said:


> I think he means the FS and various fire fighting contractors?
> 
> I don't agree but what ev's
> 
> The forest service is pretty much bankrupt, partly because of the cost of fighting these massive fires (thanks prevailing wage) and partly because they get sued every time they try to make some revenue by having a timber sale.
> 
> In the end the only people making any money at it are the fire fighters themselves, the fuel sales guys, contractors and maybe the local quickee marts... otherwise its just a massive drain, and a complete waste. I hear that wild fire pays pretty good, but its also a pain in the ass to get certified to work a fire, and then yer risking life and limb so the money is well earned. And I imagine that the machinery side pays good too, but you pretty much have to have modern expensive equipment and even more certs... so once again its well earned.
> 
> Manage those forests and you could have true sustainable income for those communities, rather then just a shot in the arm after a stab in the back every 5-10 years.


Yes sir that's what I meant but you worded it much better than my recent post lol. Yes again it's the cash cow for those already involved meaning the contractors as an entity, not the pair of fallers on a module lookin up burnt out snags. Every little town in the northwest went through this and some much much worse than others. Just tweaks me is the just of it and I ranted like a b*tch LOL!! In the end yes Northman..........you said it and again much more effectively. Safe cuttin sir


----------



## madhatte

There's a huge debate right now in the forestry and fire communities about how to sell ourselves to the public. It's well understood by all that thinning and fuels management are how to mitigate fire hazards, but how to convince the public? They see the expense as a waste, and the special interests don't want to see anything at all cut, no matter what. The counties keep permitting construction in fire-prone locations, and the homeowners expect fire protection. We have done a terrible job regarding public relations during the off-season. Everybody loves us when we put out a fire, but nobody gives a crap when we plan a timber sale, until it goes to the auction block, at which time they are our sworn enemies. What to do?


----------



## northmanlogging

Had an idear awhile ago.

Say bunny hugger group A sues the forest service for 10 million, and wins.

Well I say we pass a law that says anyone suing on behalf of the environment, can not profit from it, so yes the Forest service will have to pay 10 million, but not to the bunny huggers, instead that money will be distributed to another similar group, like national parks or Noah etc.

I suggest this because there are lawyers that specialize in environmental law, because its easy for them to make millions, groups like GreenPeace are pretty much funded by these lawsuits, give a bunch of high minded ass hats a million dollars and they will then have time to think of a way to make another million.

But if you make it so that that money is turned around and spent on the environment they dearly care about so much, then the only incentive they will have to protect the fuzzy wuzzys and the "majestic" timber is for the fuzzy wuzzys and "majestic" timber.


----------



## Metals406

HuskStihl said:


> Ha! I'm not fit to carry u'r bar oil! Take it for the **** it is.


I bet ur better at reading an x-ray then he is. [emoji4]


----------



## slowp

madhatte said:


> There's a huge debate right now in the forestry and fire communities about how to sell ourselves to the public. It's well understood by all that thinning and fuels management are how to mitigate fire hazards, but how to convince the public? They see the expense as a waste, and the special interests don't want to see anything at all cut, no matter what. The counties keep permitting construction in fire-prone locations, and the homeowners expect fire protection. We have done a terrible job regarding public relations during the off-season. Everybody loves us when we put out a fire, but nobody gives a crap when we plan a timber sale, until it goes to the auction block, at which time they are our sworn enemies. What to do?



This should be a thread on its own. 

You guys working can start out by encouraging log truck drivers and yourselves to drive courteously in the woods. I think a lot of you already do this. In the bad old days, we delighted in hearing about tourists being run off roads or scared. That didn't help. There was a timber sale with a yarder set up that blocked one lane of a busy touristy road here. The gypo logger answered questions when he could and I even gave him some maps and trinkets to hand out. He seemed to enjoy it and mentioned that we should pay him for his good work.

Elsewhere, I have low expectations. The news reporters are not at all well versed in forestry and most likely are not interested or unable to learn about it. A headline about old growth trees to be clearcut gets more people to reading it than root rot patch to be treated in state parks. I've seen a picture of what is obviously a landing to those of us in the know labeled as a fire line that destroyed acres and acres of habitat. No recent movies about logging have been made that I know of, and loggers are usually portrayed in bit parts as evil men. 

Guess you guys need to start or continue a small PR movement and work up from that. 

Every once in a while, a commercial comes on about forestry but it is negated by a huge number of teachers in our education system who teach that cutting down a tree is a bad thing. Maybe some of you could visit schools in the cities and suburbs. Develop a program that overcomes the touchy feelie aspects and uses friendly sounding SCIENCE. I'd be glad to help if you did such a thing. 

Pictures are everything! I got tired of hearing "specialists" misname equipment and making up rules for equipment use when they had no idea how it operated or even what it looked like. I took pictures out in the woods, printed them up, and made a little display. I also took Logger's World to meetings. It helped a leeeetle bit. Those folks have huge egos and are hard to get through to. Videos and photos are necessary. 

In Wisconsin, they had Log A Load For Kids day, where loggers donated the proceeds of a load for some kind of kid's charity. I have forgotten what it was but I'm sure somebody on here knows about it. In NE Warshington, we had a field trip where we took a group of folks out to discuss a controversial timber sale. Luckily for us, Yellowstone had burned that year (our sale was a lodgepole salvage to reduce fuels in bug kill) so folks had seen how it burns. There was a little boy who was the son of one of the main appealers of timber sales. The logger on one spot that we visited put a hard hat on him and put him up on a piece of non running equipment and the kid was in heaven! 

It'll be an uphill battle, for sure. Come November, everybody forgets about wildfires until the cycle starts again the next year.


----------



## madhatte

If you want to start the thread, I'll gladly contribute. These are all solid points.


----------



## northmanlogging

Do my best on the local level... and most of the guys I'm in competition with are pretty good dudes too. Its just an uphill battle of negative attention. 

Not sure my ugly mug would win over any school marms... Kids think I'm awesome... I don't get it and I hate kidz so its kind of a burden... school marms though... 

anyway, I have a pile of friends that would be considered bunny huggers (most of em grew up in Darrington and there parents suffered heavily from the owl, and union breaking there), and many more I've met through the years of being in a rock band... thems is harder nuts to crack... but once you get them to stop spouting the crap they've learned from greenpeas, ecowhatzits, the sierra klub, and the hippie kindergarten teachers and listen they tend to see the truth just smile and nod until i go away...

But the simple argument that the "majestic" forest they are camping in or living in, happens to be 2nd or 3rd growth tends to sober them up. 

If we start pushing an image as loggers being equal to Farmers, and really we kind of are, both plant crops and both harvest them, **** ders a lot of loggers on the east coast that log for farmers, farmers that plant trees on marginal farm land so they can still get a crop out of it.

By doing so it would change the way forests are looked at, not so much as nature being denuded but more as a fresh field that has been plowed and is ready to be sown, or the small trees similar to the first starts of corn.


----------



## northmanlogging

granted farmers are still illiterate, and we have much cooler toys to play with...

Tractors are cool and all, but a yarder is bad ass


----------



## slowp

northmanlogging said:


> granted farmers are still illiterate, and we have much cooler toys to play with...
> 
> Tractors are cool and all, but a yarder is bad ass



Yup, we can start a fight here. I always liked working around yarders, even though the ground was steeper, just because they are more interesting.


----------



## northmanlogging

It would be fun to take The Missus up to the annual threshing bee, they have a vintage tractor pull. I'm pretty sure I could clean up with her.


----------



## madhatte

Yarders ARE cool. Ain't no two ways about it.


----------



## rwoods

A yarder - it wasn't that many years ago to me a yarder was the car you drove in the junk yard to retrieve parts. Always roofless with nair a good body panel or interior piece. A good one would feature a working windshield washer pump and passenger side nozzle. Nonetheless a logging yarder is indeed more interesting.

Ron


----------



## northmanlogging

this goes here


----------



## HuskStihl

northmanlogging said:


> this goes here



Nice!


----------



## slowp

I finally got to stop and see a ship being loaded with logs. Usually, I'm going over the scary bridge across the Columbia at Longview and can't gape.
This is at Port Angeles. I was impressed. This would be apres falling.


----------



## Trx250r180

Seen the blue boat a couple days ago when i was in town ,polar discovery i think is name on the side .


----------



## bitzer

I like how you jettisoned the wedges. Makes for an easier escape.  She looked pretty soft in the middle.


----------



## northmanlogging

bitzer said:


> I like how you jettisoned the wedges. Makes for an easier escape.  She looked pretty soft in the middle.


not sure if ya can see in the vid, as i was grabbing the wedges the back side popped and moved about 1/2" toward me, so i figured it was already voing and i should srop ****in about and get it down before it chaired


if ya listen close ya might make lut a wee little squeek... which would be me nearly stainin muh shorts


----------



## bitzer

northmanlogging said:


> not sure if ya can see in the vid, as i was grabbing the wedges the back side popped and moved about 1/2" toward me, so i figured it was already voing and i should srop ****in about and get it down before it chaired
> 
> 
> if ya listen close ya might make lut a wee little squeek... which would be me nearly stainin muh shorts


I watched with the sound off(in the can) but I gathered what was going on. Just giving ya crap. At least you didn't bolt when she started popping. I did that a couple weeks ago. It was rotten in the face and it started popping really early I booked out of there and she chaired about 30 ft up, broke off and came sideways at me. It knocked a bunch of buckthorn bushes down which whipped me like a big fly swatter. I quit messin around after that.


----------



## northmanlogging

ick...


----------



## bitzer

Which part? About me being in the can or getting swatted by buckthorn? Ha ha ha


----------



## HuskStihl

I was wondering why ya pulled the wedges out of the pouch, then dropped them. I don't know why you were worried, that tree didn't look nearly big enough to hurt you.


----------



## northmanlogging

bitzer said:


> Which part? About me being in the can or getting swatted by buckthorn? Ha ha ha



chairing, and getting swatted by buckthorn, leaves ya feeling a little less then sure of yerself and a tiny bit humiliated, so ick...


----------



## northmanlogging




----------



## BGE541

northmanlogging said:


>




You normally in Western WA? I'd like to tag along, carry your mix and oil, whatever just to learn if your even near the area.

Thanks for the video.


----------



## northmanlogging

I'm not that good, I'm just good at faking it


----------



## Metals406

northmanlogging said:


>



First, let me say to all the haters. . . This only confirms and solidifies the Patterson-Gimlin film.

#BIGFOOTISREAL

4thly -- fat people CAN run, so don't let them tell you they can't.

#DEADLYSITUATIONS

#RUNFATTYRUN

[emoji38][emoji38][emoji38][emoji38][emoji38]

Of course I mean this all in good fun and jest.

:0)


----------



## Trx250r180

Metals406 said:


> First, let me say to all the haters. . . This only confirms and solidifies the Patterson-Gimlin film.
> 
> #BIGFOOTISREAL
> 
> 4thly -- fat people CAN run, so don't let them tell you they can't.
> 
> #DEADLYSITUATIONS
> 
> #RUNFATTYRUN
> 
> [emoji38][emoji38][emoji38][emoji38][emoji38]
> 
> Of course I mean this all in good fun and jest.
> 
> :0)



Way to go troll ,dig up and post in a 7 year old thread .


----------



## northmanlogging

You know Montuckey isn't a real populated state... wouldn't take long to find yer house and sit on you...


----------



## Metals406

northmanlogging said:


> You know Montuckey isn't a real populated state... wouldn't take long to find yer house and sit on you...


Hahaha [emoji23][emoji23]


----------



## madhatte

Ya sit on him, we'll never talk him into another Montucky GTG. Just sayin'.


----------



## northmanlogging

Yeah... Montucky is awfully close to Wyoming... So I probably wouldn't be going anyway...

Though I knows some folks in both WY and MT that think they owe me so...


----------



## Trx250r180

northmanlogging said:


> Yeah... Montucky is awfully close to Wyoming... So I probably wouldn't be going anyway...
> 
> Though I knows some folks in both WY and MT that think they owe me so...


Take a left at the dairy queen ,go a few blocks ,you will find him .


----------



## northmanlogging

Some stoopid **** today... working alone is fun, everyone should do it


----------



## madhatte

northmanlogging said:


> Some stoopid **** today... working alone is fun, everyone should do it



"And we're not dead!"

Geeze, man, that was so clean it almost didn't look sketchy as hell. Well done. Gotta love mechanical advantage!


----------



## northmanlogging

Stump was all level and shizz... Almost like someone else was cutting it...


----------



## madhatte

It's called "the stranger". What you do is sit on your trigger arm 'til it falls asleep, and....


----------



## northmanlogging

heh heh hehe

uhhhuh


----------



## KiwiBro

northmanlogging said:


> Some stoopid **** today... working alone is fun, everyone should do it



Nice.
Replacement radio remote controlled PTO winch for my tractor is next on my 'solo and proud of it' circus act shopping list. Long overdue.


----------



## Trx250r180

How did you get the cable so high in the tree ? throw a rope first ?


----------



## northmanlogging

Big shot, wrist rocket on steroids...

Uses a weighted bag and some tiny line, then use it to pull the proper line up, stole that from the arborists... 

Doesn't work real slick if you want to hang cable, cause cable is heavy. But the new rigging rope that arborists are using is pretty tough stuff, for little trees like this one, its fine, anything more I still wan't cable up there. And if there is a bunch of limbs it can be tough to get the line where ya want it.

But a Big Shot is like $150-180? throw bags about $12, throw line $30 for 200' and around a $2 a foot for good rigging rope, all told around $300, while hiring some dingus to climb em at $100 a tree... pretty much pays for itself in short order.

I'll climb em if I have to, but its not something I look forward to, so I try to find anyway out of it I can

P.S. I still don't trust rope, knots are natural weak spots, and anykind of sharp anything will cut it, you have to take your time and set it up proper like, cable is much more forgiving.


----------



## northmanlogging

Some fun from yesterday, 8 hrs and just the co-dom in the pic is about all I got done. Ended up using my 260 with a 20" cause the big saws where probably going to chuck me off the boards or cut into the still standing bit, which turned out to be nearly completely rotten... Think my poor ole 260 is about done... getting hard to keep it tuned.


----------



## madhatte

How do you knock the back out of those springboard notches?


----------



## northmanlogging

I bore each side, then just whop em with ye ole axe a few times, usually works.

Bore em at a slight angle, narrow end towards center of stump... duh right... I cut em pretty deep so that most of the steel on the boards is covered, a good 6-8"

I've seen folks bore in on the back side of the notch which works, but takes better aim and perfectly placed notches to allow said boring, I like just putting em where I wants em and calling it a day, its bad enough being on em, but not having em where ya need em is just a total pain in the ass.


----------



## madhatte

northmanlogging said:


> Bore em at a slight angle, narrow end towards center of stump...



Ah, makes sense.


----------



## madhatte

Wanna see an ugly stump? 








OK, it's not actually as bad as it looks. It's a buckskin snag that we pushed over with the Gradall. I crippled it up enough to get it to crack because the damn thing held on much better than expected. I didn't want to commit to falling it because the top was so bad and I didn't want it coming back on me. Later in the day a top did exactly that and smashed a bunch of the glass on the machine. I'm super happy that we have equipment to take hazards so I don't have to.


----------



## Jacob J.

That looks like a restoration burn unit.


----------



## madhatte

It's the back of a firing range. We had about 300 acres burn there last year and another 500 this year. We finally got the green light to take out snags near roads so these are all snags that 1) the machines couldn't push over unassisted and 2) I didn't trust the tops enough to just cut myself so I crippled them enough that the machines could do the work while I was back out of the way. Here's a few more.


----------



## Gypo Logger




----------



## Gypo Logger




----------



## bitzer

Seven years ago today a fire was lit under my ass that had been smoldering for a long time. Thanks Jesse.


----------



## rwoods

Gypo Logger said:


> View attachment 539178



Proof of the leprechaun. Though I thought their heads would be smaller and their saws green. Ron


----------



## Gypo Logger

Falling, I think I'm falling. Which way to the beech?


----------



## Gypo Logger

So loving wood and never get sick of it


----------



## young bucker

northmanlogging said:


> Some fun from yesterday, 8 hrs and just the co-dom in the pic is about all I got done. Ended up using my 260 with a 20" cause the big saws where probably going to chuck me off the boards or cut into the still standing bit, which turned out to be nearly completely rotten... Think my poor ole 260 is about done... getting hard to keep it tuned.
> 
> View attachment 533510


when i have to plank something i use the same notches..except when my planks are in i hammer in wedges(nylon) so wcb won't have a field day on me.


----------



## northmanlogging

I'm owner operator down here so the safety nannies can piss up a rope.

Some stuff is smart, but a lot of it just wastes time and effort.

Chaps for instance, chaps are good, unless you have 50 pounds of other **** you have to carry, and still be able to run, then chaps not so good.

Hard hats, I like hard hats, hard hats save lives and trees fight back.

Safefy glasses/ mesh shields, personally I think I get more **** in my eyes with that stuff on then without.


As for wedging in the boards, meh, with the steel end biting in there isn't really a reason for it, now if it was some field made versions then yes wack a wedge in to keep things tight fer sure.


----------



## madhatte

It's that time again.


----------



## northmanlogging

How those madsens hold up?

they look like rebranded champs? But the "tool steel" makes me nervous.

Been thinking on getting em by the gross, cause its a 45 mile drive to anyone that sells em.


----------



## madhatte

Oh, they're Champs, alright. They hold up about as you'd expect.


----------



## northmanlogging

ordering soon... need pants anyway...


----------



## rwoods

If you decide to forgo the pants too, please re-consider the chaps. Ron


----------



## northmanlogging

Thats the problem the pants aren't much better then chaps now, and the local feed store is out of my size... has been for several months... and its cold out there right now


----------



## bnmc98

madhatte said:


> It's that time again. View attachment 541862



I have a set to put in mine but I'm holding out as long as I can. I wear them on my machine which wears them down pretty fast. But, The other day I did not wear my calks and got out on a hill that was so froze, I fell 3 times just standing there. I was actually surprised my skidder was able to climb it.
I guess wearing them down fast is better than falling down fast.... and often.


----------



## Westboastfaller

northmanlogging said:


> Some fun from yesterday, 8 hrs and just the co-dom in the pic is about all I got done. Ended up using my 260 with a 20" cause the big saws where probably going to chuck me off the boards or cut into the still standing bit, which turned out to be nearly completely rotten... Think my poor ole 260 is about done... getting hard to keep it tuned.
> 
> View attachment 533510


Split the f*cken thing or lay 'em out together or reach if you will Bro


----------



## northmanlogging

good times where had by all...


----------



## bitzer

I didn't see this yesterday. I like your laugh at the end. One thing I usually do in that situation is I will face up the tree in the lead and maybe even start the back cut. Then as soon as I get the back tree faced and ready I'm right into the back cut of the lead tree. Just keeps your time in danger to a minimum. I will often do that when I'm going to push a tree with another. I will face up the pusher tree then cut up the tree to be pushed and then I'm right into the backcut of the pusher tree. Looks like your having fun! Fun at work is good!


----------



## northmanlogging

Yup... Maybe folks will see why things take me so long...


----------



## madhatte

Yo, get a jack, reduce the pucker factor. Also your wedge-palming kung fu is solid as hell. Good work.


----------



## northmanlogging

I gots 2 jacks yo

they is heavy... but very handy when needed


----------



## bitzer

Easy as pie


----------



## MilanRV

a little accident from slovakia


----------



## rwoods

Appears to have been a soft landing. Hope the operator didn't get bang up too badly.

I hope all else is well in your fine country. 

Ron


----------



## MilanRV

rwoods said:


> Appears to have been a soft landing. Hope the operator didn't get bang up too badly.
> 
> I hope all else is well in your fine country.
> 
> Ron


Yes, the operator is fine nothing more happens to him or to the skidder


----------



## madhatte

Arggh, freakin' gravity, wins every time.


----------



## bnmc98

There are so many wrong variables in that skid, I'm glad the operator is OK.


----------



## chucker

bnmc98 said:


> There are so many wrong variables in that skid, I'm glad the operator is OK.


yup! there's nothing like drop, run, retrieve, as many times it takes to be at the bottom for safety.... gravity and leverage don't work hand in hand down hill! at least he was using the blade to slow his descent .


----------



## bnmc98

I had three larger fir on my tail the other day in a similar situation. Soft snow and steep. They wanted to kick me out so I had to keep my foot in the throttle to keep her from coming around; and they had all their limbs on.
But thats the nature of the game. That guy learned a lot in that skid and will probably do things differently next time (hopefully). sometimes you just don't know until it happens.

The problem with trees like he was pulling is there is no limbs so you can't just drop them or they will run away on you. Which is ultimately what they did anyways and took the toy skidder with it.


----------



## MilanRV

Yes, its hard to drop the loggs i such a situation, downhill,snow,ice,and a curve. Loggs are snedded, so they kick you or they overtake ypu like the last logg on the video


----------



## chucker

bnmc98 said:


> I had three larger fir on my tail the other day in a similar situation. Soft snow and steep. They wanted to kick me out so I had to keep my foot in the throttle to keep her from coming around; and they had all their limbs on.
> But thats the nature of the game. That guy learned a lot in that skid and will probably do things differently next time (hopefully). sometimes you just don't know until it happens.
> 
> The problem with trees like he was pulling is there is no limbs so you can't just drop them or they will run away on you. Which is ultimately what they did anyways and took the toy skidder with it.


the problem was they were bunched together ! seeing a problem, the thing to do is to drop and let them spread out !! less chance to ride over each other creating another mess with the mass and weight of gravity being the boss..


----------



## bnmc98

Thats a tough call. In my experience, logs with no limbs will try to run away and the more you have the larger the stampede because the middle logs in the bunch, once they are spread out have no choker to hold onto them and once you drop them, there goes the tension on that choker. Then as soon as you bump the winch to reel them in, here they come
I try to take smaller drags if I can and suck them up tight like he did, keeps the rear wheels planted on steep stuff like that. Butt first might have helped him too. He had a lot of weight on that drag for that little skidder and thats what pushed him over in my opinion.
I also stay in low and keep my foot in the throttle, hardly ever use my brakes.

But videos can be deceiving, probably looks different than it really was and it also looked soft under the snow.
Sometimes I have to experiment with what works.


----------



## chucker

variables!! always a nasty word when thing's get tough guessing while not on dry flat ground! lol


----------



## MilanRV

Few more videos  lkt 81 and lkt 80(40 years old)


----------



## chucker

definitely some nice timber....


----------



## bnmc98

Wow! Quite a little work horse. I like the dual winch setup.
And yaeh, thats some nice wood.


----------



## Andrewpowley

Not a falling pic but I got to cut trees in the snow for the first time and that was a lot of fun


would probably be pretty over it after the 3rd day though


----------



## Westboastfaller

Andrewpowley said:


> Not a falling pic but I got to cut trees in the snow for the first time and that was a lot of fun
> View attachment 561318
> 
> would probably be pretty over it after the 3rd day though


 Hey Neighbor what's up man.
Lots of snow this year. You got snow yesterday? Last year the flowers were out already.


----------



## northmanlogging

Andrewpowley said:


> Not a falling pic but I got to cut trees in the snow for the first time and that was a lot of fun
> View attachment 561318
> 
> would probably be pretty over it after the 3rd day though



Crazy question, who ya got hauling logs for ya off the island? Only know of one outfit that does is regularly, most of the guys I use won't do it, or charge an arm and a leg.


----------



## Andrewpowley

Westboastfaller said:


> Hey Neighbor what's up man.
> Lots of snow this year. You got snow yesterday? Last year the flowers were out already.


Neighbor?! where are you at??
and heck yeah we got three inches in 3 hours on Monday, the roads were a shi#t show hahahah
Been a great snow year for us but its defiantly starting to look more like spring than winter around here


----------



## Andrewpowley

northmanlogging said:


> Crazy question, who ya got hauling logs for ya off the island? Only know of one outfit that does is regularly, most of the guys I use won't do it, or charge an arm and a leg.


There is a fellow named Rick (i think) on the island who owns a truck and hauls logs for us and a bunch of other folks regularly. I could get his contact info if you're interested.
and yeah no surprise they charge an arm and a leg... damn ferries are expensive!!


----------



## Westboastfaller

Andrewpowley said:


> Neighbor?! where are you at??
> and heck yeah we got three inches in 3 hours on Monday, the roads were a shi#t show hahahah
> Been a great snow year for us but its defiantly starting to look more like spring than winter around here


 I'm from the south end of the Big Big Island, north of the Gulf Islands. but over on the BC lower mainland now.


----------



## Andrewpowley

oh man were are neighbors... I keep telling myself that Im gunna catch the ferry over to the big island to check it out but still haven't done it yet. I hear great things about it

Did you guys on the mainland get some decent snow on monday?


----------



## northmanlogging

still stomping through it in places...

I don't generally mess around on the islands much, Camano, or Whidbey is about it, the san juans are a bit outside my play ground.


----------



## bnmc98

Andrewpowley said:


> Not a falling pic but I got to cut trees in the snow for the first time and that was a lot of fun
> View attachment 561318
> 
> would probably be pretty over it after the 3rd day though



I work in it 5 months out of the year.
6 if we're up even higher.
I'm usually over it before it hits

Always pretty though.

One thing I will say, just like skiers love those face shots on powder days. Nothing like dumping a large tree with a full canopy of fresh snow. What a whiteout. 
Loggers face shot.


----------



## bitzer




----------



## northmanlogging

was it supposed to do that? Cause I hates its when that happenesess


----------



## bitzer

Do what?


----------



## northmanlogging

get hung up


or was it just good timing on yer camera


----------



## bitzer

Nope good timing.


----------



## Trx250r180

Why did that one need the jack?


----------



## 1270d

Wish that wood like that could grow around here. Correction, it will grow but will be junky.


----------



## bitzer

Trx250r180 said:


> Why did that one need the jack?


The stem was fairly vertical but had some serious limb weight over the back that kept it sky bound. I couldn't get it to take wedges worth a damn and i had a black top driveway and the landowners front yard right behind me. The truck was parked a few tree lengths away so I grabbed the jack, cut a hole, and about 4 cranks later she was ready to tip. I wish I would have done it in the first place because it had crossed my mind before I started sawing.


----------



## bitzer

1270d said:


> Wish that wood like that could grow around here. Correction, it will grow but will be junky.


The red oaks were all 30" plus, hard maple 24-30", and the ash, cherry, and popple were all pretty tall. Most trees were 50' to the crotch with a few pushing 70'. Not unusual for me to be in wood like this. I cut little crap too of course from time to time but there's plenty of this to make it worthwhile. The biggest oak was 46" across the hinge. Lots of 1000+bf stuff on this one.


----------



## Trx250r180

bitzer said:


> The stem was fairly vertical but had some serious limb weight over the back that kept it sky bound. I couldn't get it to take wedges worth a damn and i had a black top driveway and the landowners front yard right behind me. The truck was parked a few tree lengths away so I grabbed the jack, cut a hole, and about 4 cranks later she was ready to tip. I wish I would have done it in the first place because it had crossed my mind before I started sawing.


That makes sense ,i am used to nothing really being around to get hurt ,if it don't wanna go one way ,i can just make it go the other way most of the time .I need to weld a plate to a big bottle jack some time ,that looks handy .


----------



## Skeans

Trx250r180 said:


> That makes sense ,i am used to nothing really being around to get hurt ,if it don't wanna go one way ,i can just make it go the other way most of the time .I need to weld a plate to a big bottle jack some time ,that looks handy .


Get some 1" aluminum plates and drill the jack foot then thread it less chance of taking the jack seals out.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Metals406

Most guys weld a socket to the jack plate (chunk of black pipe), so it 'floats', & no biggy if the tree takes the plate on the way over.


----------



## northmanlogging

2-1/4 schedule 40 and a chunk of 3/8 plate, thought the 3/8 plate is a little thin. the pipe fits snug on my jack head but not so snug as to restrict angular movement, because I suck at using a cutting torch, I left the slag on the bottom, usually helps keep the plat in place.


----------



## northmanlogging

this goes here, I think? Not really falling but it works


----------



## madhatte

That's the kind of cutting I do the most of. That and burned-out pieces of crap. Good process.


----------



## northmanlogging

I'm getting kinda partial to this big orange wedge


----------



## northmanlogging

Cedar confuses me at times. mild landing on hard ground and it smashes all to hel

But hit a stump and a boulder and no problem


----------



## bitzer

Were you laying it uphill or down? Looks uphill?


----------



## Trx250r180

northmanlogging said:


> Cedar confuses me at times. mild landing on hard ground and it smashes all to hel
> 
> But hit a stump and a boulder and no problemView attachment 570755


Looks like a lot of sweat to me with all those limbs to hand cut .


----------



## Metals406

northmanlogging said:


> Cedar confuses me at times. mild landing on hard ground and it smashes all to hel
> 
> But hit a stump and a boulder and no problemView attachment 570755


Yeah, you probably had yer tongue in the left cheek side of yer mouf this time.

Tree saved out.

It's the little things.


----------



## northmanlogging

bitzer said:


> Were you laying it uphill or down? Looks uphill?



sorta uphill, had to go between those two old growth stumps, cause the road is off to the left of the picture, and leave trees all on the right, I'd already shoved one through the leave trees.

Beauty part is I slammed a second bigger one on top of it and only lost a few feet of top, still got 2 30's out of each tree, could have got another 16 out of the second maybe, but it would have been awfully scrawny.

started this job last thursday, so I'm into it 4 days total, first day dealing with blow down junk, and half a day dealing with snags, and I've got about 2 or more loads ready to go, 3 more trees and Its all done, but they all need safety lines, leanin hard and limb heavy over the road. if the rain lets up a little I might get em down today.


----------



## flying pig

I've been faithfully reading this thread since like January. I'm way back on page 230 but really enjoying everything that you guys are sharing here.

I'm no faller by any means, my logging consists of a bit of recreational milling and that's about it. My dad was a faller for P&G in the 80s. I've learned a lot from talking to him and from pointers he's given me, but I'm very very green and probably always will be. I've always loved being in the bush and running saw, but the ground here is pretty decent and our wood is small so everything is pretty well done mechanically now. I'm glad that forestry allows us to use our firewood permits for milling dead standing trees, it allows me to experience a bit of what might have been if I was born twenty years earlier.

Anyway, here are a few of me dropping a pine for milling last weekend. Dad has me using a humbolt and trying to get it as close to the ground as I can. He said he always tried for as low a stump as possible. For me I try to get 3 ten foot logs out of one tree as the crown tends to branch out beyond that and I may only get two tens and an eight out of a trunk this size. This one is a pretty big pine for here.

I'm running two 2100 Husqvarnas. The one in these pics was dad's last new saw of his pro career. I've rebuilt it to as close to as new as possible and set it up exactly how he ran it, half wrap, double dogs, 404 full comp on a 33" bar. Love these older huskies. 

I'm not so good at lining up my cuts yet. I think a lot of it is still a bit of nerves mixed with excitement. Usually after I look at a stump after I've cut the tree I can see a mistake I've made and figure out something to try on the next one to correct it. I've definitely been trying to look up lots to develop that habit as second nature especially with always falling dead wood.

Thanks for the entertainment and great reading in here.


----------



## bitzer

Half wrap huh? I used to think there wasn't decent timber around here and everything was mechanized. Boy was I wrong. I bought my own skidder and went into buisness at 29. You might be surprised if you start digging into things. Private wood lots that haven't been touched in 100 years etc. It was this thread that pushed me over the edge to quit my day job.


----------



## flying pig

Ha ha ya half wrap. He said he'd lose 2" on his stump with a full wrap, and that he pulled the front lower bolts out of the cases a lot with the full wrap because the lower mounts were split up there, each end had one bolt going through a tie plate vs both bolts going through the bar. Sounds like he was pretty brutal for the most part, actually. Ha ha. But he fell for 11 years so he must have had a method that worked for him.

It'd be a tough go to quit my job to try and log here for sure. We're single income and my job is pretty healthy wage wise (I'm a heavy equipment tech) as well as it being fairly stable. I work for a rental company that caters to mining, construction, and oilfield and mining is just nuts right now. Now if I could get into a job with a shift I'd have way more time to pursue my hobbies, and maybe then a little side business could be doable. Sky is the limit. I'm only 31 so there is time yet.


----------



## bitzer

My wife doesn't work either and when I went into logging I had four kids to feed. A year into the biz I had five. The first two years were pretty lean. There was a huge learning curve. I was good at cutting timber but cutting/skidding for production is a whole nother ball game. It took me a long time to get a system down. I pushed and pushed and pushed and luckily my first full year there was a pretty serious drought. It didn't rain from April til it snowed in late December. I feel like if it weren't for that I would have been done. We also had two great winters in a row after that. The last year and a half has been mild and wet. Tough going but I know how to make it happen now. Turning your own wrenches is absolutely crucial too. If you can't fix your own equipment I don't know how a guy would ever make it.


----------



## flying pig

I'd definitely have an advantage there, I'm quite tooled up already. I have everything from hand tools to a lathe, machining and welding equipment. It would definitely be fun, being either in the shop or in an open pit mine gets old pretty quick.

I've also got a pile of operating experience. I ran dozer and scraper for 11 years before moving on to mechanicing. I also did a lot of pipeline labour work in that time too. That was fun also and man did ya get ripped in a hurry.


----------



## Gologit

bitzer said:


> It was this thread that pushed me over the edge to quit my day job.



Well, we tried to warn you but you made up your mind to go logging.


----------



## 1270d

Gologit said:


> Well, we tried to warn you but you made up your mind to go logging.




I just noticed your now fully retired. What do you do to keep busy?


----------



## rwoods

1270d said:


> I just noticed your now fully retired. What do you do to keep busy?





Trx250r180 said:


> Good morning .View attachment 575156



Only a guess.

Ron


----------



## bitzer

Gologit said:


> Well, we tried to warn you but you made up your mind to go logging.


Yes you did! But I just couldn't get it out of head. I knew it had to be done. I'm like that in a lot of ways. And when I'm set, I always figure out a way. Besides it's more fun telling people I'm logger then some office jockey.


----------



## Gologit

1270d said:


> I just noticed your now fully retired. What do you do to keep busy?



That's the great thing about being retired, I can be just as busy...or not...as I choose. Having choices is like being rich. Actually, having choices _is _being rich. The money is just a way of keeping score.

I spent over fifty years pretty much dancing to somebody else's tune but now I decide what and where and how much of my time is spent on things that I enjoy and have an interest in. Even when I was in business for myself there were always governmental agencies and bankers and customers to answer to. I didn't have choices, I had obligations.
Those days are gone and I don't miss them at all.

The wife and I spend a lot of time on our boat. We fish. She catches all the fish, I just drown bait.
I do volunteer work with the local land trust. I gave two saw safety classes to the inmate work crews who cut firewood for the Senior Citizen Help program that donates firewood to the needy..
I spent most of the winter undergoing chemo and radiation therapy for lymphoma and I found they had a real need for volunteers at the hospital so I do that a couple of times a week.
These are all things I really enjoy and it's entirely up to me how much or how little involvement I have. Like I said...choices.

And, just to keep my hand in, we're doing a couple of small timber sales on family ground. We sold off the majority of our ground year before last after the fires but we kept enough to give us something to do. I do the easy stuff, drive around in the pickup with all the antennas on top and make sure things run smooth.

Oh...and sleeping late occasionally. That's really great.


----------



## 1270d

Good to hear. Every old timer I know wastes away as soon as they lose their reasons to wake up in the morning.


----------



## Gologit

I've seen that happen. I think it's an easy trap to fall into.
You have to stay involved.


----------



## northmanlogging

just a horrible vidjeo


----------



## rwoods

Gologit, I posted a "like" to your post but I didn't like the lymphoma part. You will be in my thoughts and prayers. Ron


----------



## rwoods

NM, you're right that was a horrible video. It looked like you threw a few chips in the air and stared the tree down while reving a saw in the background. We have come to expect better.  Ron


----------



## northmanlogging

See if you folks can guess my pucker factor on this one


----------



## northmanlogging

Also... nails...


----------



## madhatte

I'm guessing if you hadn't swung it so hard it woulda clobbered the excavator and the fence as well as the ... is that a downed power line?


----------



## northmanlogging

Not a down line... just hung really low.

They do that a lot around here cause of the hills

But yeah leanin hard toward the house with the top kicked towards the power lines.

There where 4 in that little pocket. They all died yesterday or today


----------



## madhatte

Dang, yo. That's a pucker for sure.


----------



## madhatte

Today I cut a 40" elm. Elm is not native here. I have never cut elm before. I found the short, wet fibers to be reminiscent of sycamore, which is also not native here. Bill's gonna be all "you just jacked that because you could" and I'm not gonna deny it for a second but I will say that the first pic was a month or so ago and the barn is down now and I really jacked it so that I wouldn't have to worry about flopping the thing into a bed of nails. That's my brother in the last pic swapping a chain. It's always good to work with him.


----------



## bitzer

Usually elm has pretty long fibers. They will stayed attached to the stump all the way to the ground and will split a little on a closed face but won't chair. Sometimes older bigger trees will break off easier which is probably what you had. Yeah it looked like most of your limb weight was in the direction of the lay. Sometimes those big ugly tops can be deceiving. Best not to over think them. Usually your first thought is the best. Stinky wood huh?


----------



## madhatte

bitzer said:


> Sometimes those big ugly tops can be deceiving. Best not to over think them. Usually your first thought is the best. Stinky wood huh?



Yeah, what a funk!


----------



## Skeans

madhatte said:


> Yeah, what a funk!


It's no alder that's for sure.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## northmanlogging




----------



## Trx250r180

bet that made a nice breeze .


----------



## chucker

Trx250r180 said:


> bet that made a nice breeze .


!!"BUTT" !! always standing on the wrong end to feel the affects of the labor... lol


----------



## northmanlogging

See ifn that werks


----------



## Bwildered

northmanlogging said:


> See ifn that werks



I'm not getting falling a tree that big next to a busy road without stopping the traffic or a pull line in it!


----------



## Gologit

Bwildered said:


> I'm not getting falling a tree that big next to a busy road without stopping the traffic or a pull line in it!



Then by all means you shouldn't try something similar. A man should recognize his limitations and lack of skill.

Matt knows what he's doing.


----------



## bitzer

Bwildered said:


> I'm not getting falling a tree that big next to a busy road without stopping the traffic or a pull line in it!


There's a lot of things you don't get.


----------



## Bwildered

Gologit said:


> Then by all means you shouldn't try something similar. A man should recognize his limitations and lack of skill.
> 
> Matt knows what he's doing.





bitzer said:


> There's a lot of things you don't get.


Fully recommended too!


----------



## northmanlogging

Well, there was a pull line in it, purely for safety and sanity. It was arguably unnecessary seeing as it took 3 hours to set up, and the nice storm we had last thursday rolled in by the time I had every thing rigged... so It cost me log load that week. or in other words i didn't make any money that week.

but it had a line in it even though it had enough forward lean to counter act the limb weight. 

But safety first, and I'm glad I put the line in it, cause if **** had gone wrong we wouldn't likely be talking about it right now.


----------



## rwoods

Tell me with that lobed stem:

A. Does the new growth push the bark out?

B. The tree is past its prime?

C. Lobes are slabbed off and figured in the price?

D. It is the rest of the stem that counts?

E. All of the above?

F. Some of the above (please specify)?

Thanks, Ron


----------



## rwoods

Okay, how about none of the above? 

Ron


----------



## northmanlogging

rwoods said:


> Tell me with that lobed stem:
> 
> A. Does the new growth push the bark out?
> 
> B. The tree is past its prime?
> 
> C. Lobes are slabbed off and figured in the price?
> 
> D. It is the rest of the stem that counts?
> 
> E. All of the above?
> 
> F. Some of the above (please specify)?
> 
> Thanks, Ron



I'm not an arborist... so these are my best answers 

A: not exactly? the bark folds in and sometimes gets absorbed I think usually it just becomes a deeper and deeper seam

B: this was a young tree, at only like 60-80 years old, proper old growth ceders hit 600-700 yrs, they get pretty ugly though

C: Depending on how deep or numerous the seams are, I will either buck off the seams/lobes or leave it as part of the first log, or option A cut a 16-20' off the butt and send it all, depends on multiple factors though. (overall length, limbiness, overall log count, do I need more bunk logs, is it worth sending a short log to the exporter... etc) another option is the trim the lobes to make a "rounder" log, a total pain in the ass, so I rarely do so plus the mills are pretty much set up fer this kind of ****ery so let them mess with it.

D: best money on ceder is the second log, a 3rd is just icing, the first pays for the effort, now a fourth log... a fourth log when yer cutting em at 30' them's some tall timbers...


This particular tree was chock full of nails, so the first 10' is still sitting about where it landed, its also super gross with the veiny bark seems... some folks are into veiny though... not judging...

Also nails equals exter tall stump


----------



## Bwildered

northmanlogging said:


> Well, there was a pull line in it, purely for safety and sanity. It was arguably unnecessary seeing as it took 3 hours to set up, and the nice storm we had last thursday rolled in by the time I had every thing rigged... so It cost me log load that week. or in other words i didn't make any money that week.
> 
> but it had a line in it even though it had enough forward lean to counter act the limb weight.
> 
> But safety first, and I'm glad I put the line in it, cause if **** had gone wrong we wouldn't likely be talking about it right now.


Now that you mentioned it , I faintly saw the line when replaying it, playing it safe is always a winner, you never know when a bus load of children driven by some dopey bus driver can come around the corner & end up under something that hasn't gone quite as expected.
Thansk


----------



## northmanlogging

Gologit said:


> Then by all means you shouldn't try something similar. A man should recognize his limitations and lack of skill.
> 
> Matt knows what he's doing.



There I go getting all big headed and stuff....


----------



## Bwildered

Gologit said:


> Then by all means you shouldn't try something similar. A man should recognize his limitations and lack of skill.
> 
> Matt knows what he's doing.


I couldn't do that, my insurance doesn't cover me for overhead wires or powerlines or keeping me out of jail if I clean someone up with a tree by doing something reckless. I have however winched quite a few trees over & blocked off roads for a couple of minutes when falling trees near roads ! Its called removing the risk.


----------



## northmanlogging

Bwildered said:


> I couldn't do that, my insurance doesn't cover me for overhead wires or powerlines or keeping me out of jail if I clean them up with a tree by doing something reckless. I have however winched quite a few trees over & blocked off roads for a couple of minutes when falling trees near roads ! Its called removing the risk.



and there is the difference, my insurance does cover power lines and blocked roads and i know when the busiest times are.

blocking the road isn't always an option I can't exactly set up a couple road cones and expect every tom **** and larry to obey it, especially on a county road. 

Being a county road, I would be required to get a flag crew, and provide signs on both approaches, signs are the least of the problem, hiring a couple of union trained nose pickers at $30 an hour to maybe stop traffic when needed is an issue, not only is it expensive its a waste of effort and money, because if the tree went the wrong way, its unlikely to hit a vehicle, but it is likely to hit those power lines, and probably the house across the street. The "pro flaggers" out here are union, and demand union wages, its **** but thats how it works, they send them to flagging school and everything, but the end of the day, its unlikely that they would be smart enough to stop traffic for the time needed to put the tree on the ground, they **** up regular road crew stuff on a regular basis, do you think i could trust them for a minute outside of their wheel house? 

Also its unlikely that I would be jailed if the tree went the wrong way, reckless is willful or wanton behavior, going the wrong waY is a tragic accident, and frankly our police as crappy as they can be sometimes, are not that crappy.

Finally, since day one that I started falling trees for other people, I have held ONE RULE, and its kept me out of some really sketchy stuff, and its a simple rule.

IF I OR ANYONE INVOLVED HAS CONCERNS WITH ANYTHING, WE LEAVE IT ALONE, OR CHANGE THE PLAN, dying ain't worth it. 

I sized it up, looked it over, thought on it for a few days, and did my job, with confidence, because if it was at all sketchy, I would have backed off and found another way or left it standing.


----------



## chucker

northmanlogging said:


> There I go getting all big headed and stuff....


nothing wrong with a big head when you know your job and how to get it done right the first time! "PRIDE & CONFIDENCE" is a winner in making things happen and doing it for a living ! this is what separates the "BE'S" from the "wanna bee,s". northy "BE'S" the man in his wood's! carry on.


----------



## madhatte

northmanlogging said:


> IF I OR ANYONE INVOLVED HAS CONCERNS WITH ANYTHING, WE LEAVE IT ALONE, OR CHANGE THE PLAN, dying ain't worth it.



That's the stuff right there. 

I got chewed by a supervisor once for taking a bunch of time briefing a fire. It moved pretty fast while I was briefing and things changed. I defended my actions exactly as you have -- we took the time to make everybody comfortable with the task at hand, did our job, and went home safely. Between me and the supervisor, guess who's still working this business?


----------



## northmanlogging

on with more fun stuff

I don't usually get to fall multiple stems without limbing and bucking or dicking with something else, so this was kinda fun. Makes me wanna see how much I could clear in a day if all i had to do was dump and move.


----------



## northmanlogging

course it took me 3 hours to limb and buck em...


----------



## northmanlogging

madhatte said:


> That's the stuff right there.
> 
> I got chewed by a supervisor once for taking a bunch of time briefing a fire. It moved pretty fast while I was briefing and things changed. I defended my actions exactly as you have -- we took the time to make everybody comfortable with the task at hand, did our job, and went home safely. Between me and the supervisor, guess who's still working this business?



Timber cutting and fire is dangerous business, have to be demented to choose either, have to be stupid not to be careful


----------



## madhatte

northmanlogging said:


> Timber cutting and fire is dangerous business, have to be demented to choose either, have to be stupid not to be careful



Prezackly


----------



## bitzer

Yeah in a situation like that it's probably a good idea for insurance reasons to make it look like you made an effort if it went wrong. I typically make sure I have super clean stumps when working in situations like that just in case there is a inquiry. I can say here is my full hinge, clean face etc. That way you are demonstrating you did the best you could. Sometimes there aren't enough hands on deck to stop traffic, help with a pull line etc. As a pro you should know when it's safe to go and you did. Tree didn't even need coaxing. I've been bombing some pretty huge trees near houses lately and either I've the skill or luck or both to make it happen. Tree service guys would never just dump them. But I can put them on the ground in a minute or two where it would take them all day. For that I charge a fraction of the price that they were qouted and I make about $300 bucks an hour by the time I'm outta there. I've never hit/wrecked anything worth more then a hundred bucks because I know my limitations. And from what I've seen of northy he does too. I've had town workers, cops, landowners, etc stop traffic when I think I needed it. Of course there's a first time for everything. I had this all types up last night and forgot to hit reply. Little late to the party now.


----------



## rwoods

I can think of a time or two that I wish I had forgot to hit the send button. True too with a few of the trees I have cut. Ron


----------



## RandyMac

Just cloak yourself in hi-vis and hack away.


----------



## northmanlogging

With a hard hat, clip board, and hi vis no one will question anything. If they do hand them a business card and they will procede to **** off


----------



## bitzer

Hey Northy- do country DJs know that you're an outlaw?


----------



## 1270d

bitzer said:


> Hey Northy- do country DJs know that you're an outlaw?


Good one, got me whistling, which no one but me appreciates.


----------



## northmanlogging

bitzer said:


> Hey Northy- do country DJs know that you're an outlaw?



yer askin the wrong man man... cuntree and westurn makes me want to fly and kill... mostly kill...


----------



## northmanlogging

bitzer said:


> Yeah in a situation like that it's probably a good idea for insurance reasons to make it look like you made an effort if it went wrong. I typically make sure I have super clean stumps when working in situations like that just in case there is a inquiry. I can say here is my full hinge, clean face etc. That way you are demonstrating you did the best you could. Sometimes there aren't enough hands on deck to stop traffic, help with a pull line etc. As a pro you should know when it's safe to go and you did. Tree didn't even need coaxing. I've been bombing some pretty huge trees near houses lately and either I've the skill or luck or both to make it happen. Tree service guys would never just dump them. But I can put them on the ground in a minute or two where it would take them all day. For that I charge a fraction of the price that they were qouted and I make about $300 bucks an hour by the time I'm outta there. I've never hit/wrecked anything worth more then a hundred bucks because I know my limitations. And from what I've seen of northy he does too. I've had town workers, cops, landowners, etc stop traffic when I think I needed it. Of course there's a first time for everything. I had this all types up last night and forgot to hit reply. Little late to the party now.



I was talking with the client on today, he mentioned that last year our so he had paid $1000 for one tree to be removed and one to be windsailed. Meanwhile, they got their first check from the mill yesterday, its for more then 1000... and I got rid of like 20 trees, and they have another check on the way.

Arborists have their place, and doing the single tree crap I will leave to them, but yer right many of them only have one idea on taking a tree down, and thats climb it and chunk it, wasting all the wood that could go to the mill.

A year or so ago a local mega church, had 6-7 big ceders and firs taken down, they hired an arborist/tree service, that proceeded to chunk everything and leave about 9 cord of firewood behind... would have made a dandy log load but no... instead the firewood chunks where there for at least another 6 months...


----------



## bitzer

1270d said:


> Good one, got me whistling, which no one but me appreciates.


I'm on the men's annual spring fishing trip right now. Lots of Coe, cash, Haggard, Jennings, going down with a lot of beer and whiskey. I bet I'm not too far from you. Boulder junction area.


----------



## bitzer

northmanlogging said:


> yer askin the wrong man man... cuntree and westurn makes me want to fly and kill... mostly kill...


Let me see what I can remember-

Country DJs know that I'm an outlaw
They'd never come to see me in this dive.
Where bikers stare at cowboys who are laughing at the hippies who are praying they'll get out of here alive.
The loudmouth in the corner is gettin too mean.
Talkin bout my earrings and my hair.
I guess that he ain't read the signs that say I been to prison.
Someone oughta warn him fore I knock him off his chair. 
Cuz my long hair just can't cover up my red neck.
I've won every fight I've ever fought. 
I don't need some turkey telling me that I ain't country.
And I ain't worth the damned ole ticket that he bought.
But I can sing all them songs about Texas.
And I still do all the sad ones that I know.
They tell me I look like Merle Haggard
And sound a lot like David Allen coe.


----------



## bitzer

northmanlogging said:


> I was talking with the client on today, he mentioned that last year our so he had paid $1000 for one tree to be removed and one to be windsailed. Meanwhile, they got their first check from the mill yesterday, its for more then 1000... and I got rid of like 20 trees, and they have another check on the way.
> 
> Arborists have their place, and doing the single tree crap I will leave to them, but yer right many of them only have one idea on taking a tree down, and thats climb it and chunk it, wasting all the wood that could go to the mill.
> 
> A year or so ago a local mega church, had 6-7 big ceders and firs taken down, they hired an arborist/tree service, that proceeded to chunk everything and leave about 9 cord of firewood behind... would have made a dandy log load but no... instead the firewood chunks where there for at least another 6 months...


I think arborists pay themselves way too much. I cut 20 dead ash for a guy who has his kids in my kids school. He was qouted 10k. He was told they all would have to be climbed, etc. In 3.5 hours I had them all down and cut into firewood rounds. I charged him $1000 and I felt guilty about that. The guy gives me a huge smile and handshake Everytime I see him at school functions. Last week I made 1000 bucks after logging hours just flopping trees. For the 7 trees I did at various landowners the qoutes totaled around 5k. I think it's just silly money they throw around. I don't clean up a thing on these. Just a hired saw. The qoutes were not for cleanup either. Just on the ground. The biggest removal they were going to bring a crane in over the house to bring it down. Here's what I did. Big new houses on either side of this tight lake lot. The bigger stump was around 40". Landowner chunked it up and dragged it up the hill with his skid loader. I was there about 30 minutes. Actual work time less then ten. No ropes. Just know how. I qouted him 300 he gave me $400.


----------



## northmanlogging

bitzer said:


> Let me see what I can remember-
> 
> Country DJs know that I'm an outlaw
> They'd never come to see me in this dive.
> Where bikers stare at cowboys who are laughing at the hippies who are praying they'll get out of here alive.
> The loudmouth in the corner is gettin too mean.
> Talkin bout my earrings and my hair.
> I guess that he ain't read the signs that say I been to prison.
> Someone oughta warn him fore I knock him off his chair.
> Cuz my long hair just can't cover up my red neck.
> I've won every fight I've ever fought.
> I don't need some turkey telling me that I ain't country.
> And I ain't worth the damned ole ticket that he bought.
> But I can sing all them songs about Texas.
> And I still do all the sad ones that I know.
> They tell me I look like Merle Haggard
> And sound a lot like David Allen coe.


David alan coe... i thought you was talkin young cuntree..


----------



## northmanlogging

bitzer said:


> I think arborists pay themselves way too much. I cut 20 dead ash for a guy who has his kids in my kids school. He was qouted 10k. He was told they all would have to be climbed, etc. In 3.5 hours I had them all down and cut into firewood rounds. I charged him $1000 and I felt guilty about that. The guy gives me a huge smile and handshake Everytime I see him at school functions. Last week I made 1000 bucks after logging hours just flopping trees. For the 7 trees I did at various landowners the qoutes totaled around 5k. I think it's just silly money they throw around. I don't clean up a thing on these. Just a hired saw. The qoutes were not for cleanup either. Just on the ground. The biggest removal they were going to bring a crane in over the house to bring it down. Here's what I did. Big new houses on either side of this tight lake lot. The bigger stump was around 40". Landowner chunked it up and dragged it up the hill with his skid loader. I was there about 30 minutes. Actual work time less then ten. No ropes. Just know how. I qouted him 300 he gave me $400.
> 
> View attachment 580346


To be fair tree service guys spend most of their time on cleanup, though not every ****ing tree needs climbed and chuncked.

They also have to justify all that fancy gear and equipment, meanwhile us dumb loggers just need a beat up crummy a couple saws and $30 in wedges... maybe just maybe a bottle jack.

Granted fer close work i like the security of a pull line but only when necessary


----------



## InfiniteJest




----------



## rwoods

*A LEGEND IN MY OWN MIND* – a little Saturday levity for my logger friends.

All this talk about hazard cutting has inspired me to share in the continued absence of Jon. 

Ultra hazard widow maker created after uprooting and tossing a dead snag into an adjacent dead tree while mowing the front yard.



Line in tree or mechanical assist? Nah, just went with my patented thick odd but nicely tapered hinge with sloppy combo Humboldt and conventional face cut commonly referred to in scholarly papers as the PTOBNTHWSCH&C cut. Many in the business simply refer to it as a POS cut. I have yet to collect any royalties - nor do I know why it hasn't yet become an industry standard. Ahead of the times I suppose.



Perfect fall with widow maker still intact. 



Obligatory stump shot. Used the forwarder to pull it off the stump. I tell you the PTOBNTHWSCH&C cut is one fine universal cut. Just reverse the taper if you want to unintentionally swing the opposite way. Confidentially, I'm working on version 2 for those unusual situations where swing matters - just needs a little more tuning. 



Forwarder with full pulp load.



Got to get back at it - lost an idler and the grass is growing. 

Ron


----------



## northmanlogging

DRUGS!


----------



## rwoods

Just bored. Cut a few trash cherry trees, an unidentified dead hardwood and the dogwood this a.m. Mower is broke. A couple unique JD parts are AWOL. Only bonus is it is cooler inside. Ron


----------



## chucker

northmanlogging said:


> DRUGS!


?? must be ! ifin it were not that big, I might consider it with the 390xp and a 48" bar on a second thinking...


----------



## Skeans

rwoods said:


> *A LEGEND IN MY OWN MIND* – a little Saturday levity for my logger friends.
> 
> All this talk about hazard cutting has inspired me to share in the continued absence of Jon.
> 
> Ultra hazard widow maker created after uprooting and tossing a dead snag into an adjacent dead tree while mowing the front yard.
> View attachment 580529
> 
> 
> Line in tree or mechanical assist? Nah, just went with my patented thick odd but nicely tapered hinge with sloppy combo Humboldt and conventional face cut commonly referred to in scholarly papers as the PTOBNTHWSCH&C cut. Many in the business simply refer to it as a POS cut. I have yet to collect any royalties - nor do I know why it hasn't yet become an industry standard. Ahead of the times I suppose.
> View attachment 580530
> 
> 
> Perfect fall with widow maker still intact.
> View attachment 580531
> 
> 
> Obligatory stump shot. Used the forwarder to pull it off the stump. I tell you the PTOBNTHWSCH&C cut is one fine universal cut. Just reverse the taper if you want to unintentionally swing the opposite way. Confidentially, I'm working on version 2 for those unusual situations where swing matters - just needs a little more tuning.
> View attachment 580534
> 
> 
> Forwarder with full pulp load.
> View attachment 580535
> 
> 
> Got to get back at it - lost an idler and the grass is growing.
> 
> Ron


Love it for anymore makes me real personally.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Skeans

chucker said:


> ?? must be ! ifin it were not that big, I might consider it with the 390xp and a 48" bar on a second thinking...


You can make fun of west coast boys but how many of have fell big long timber?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Skeans

A little of what this spring as left us in the PNW to get ripped out by a shovel before falling on a line with the jacks.






Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## chucker

Skeans said:


> You can make fun of west coast boys but how many of have fell big long timber?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


?? nary a one ?? we here only have 48" bell white pine at 100 feet straight up and a few more taller.. oaks running 50+ inches diameter with 50' spider crowns an 65' vertical... lol


----------



## Skeans

A decent one from the other day
 








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## 1270d

Skeans said:


> A decent one



That one at your place?


----------



## Skeans

1270d said:


> That one at your place?


Yeah off the home place

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## bitzer

Nice stick. Was that about a 5 footer? How many logs?


----------



## Skeans

bitzer said:


> Nice stick. Was that about a 5 footer? How many logs?


52" inside the bark 54" outside the bark, 6 before the break, 5 @36 and one 41

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## flying pig

Well, I started reading this thread in the last part of December while bored staying in a hotel in Hinton while working on some of our rental equipment at a coal mine. I've just finished reading the latest posts. What a trip, I feel like I've gained a lot of knowledge and have a much better insight into where hazards may lie. It's too bad I didn't actually take notes on things that didn't quite catch as I was reading them, that would have helped me to gain an understanding of a lot more of the techniques shown here. Obviously though having ideas in my head is a lot different than actually learning to apply the stuff I've learned here, learning saw skills and how different wood and environmental factors react. I'd equate it to taking an online crash course in brain surgery and hoping and praying your way through actually doing it. Ha ha. It's also too bad that so many of the great contributors to this thread haven't been posting here anymore. Has anyone heard from Burvol? Ted posted about a year ago? How's Glenn doing? What about Jon? Colton?

Anyway, Bitz, you've kinda lit a bit of a fire under me and sparked an interest in maybe logging in some way shape or form as a side job as a few of you guys here do it. A really good buddy of mine and I have been talking about it and kind of shopping around trying to come up with a plan. We've found a few skidders that I think would work well enough for us. I'm a HD mechanic and former dozer operator with 11 years experience, my buddy is a dual ticketed HD and millwright who worked in a machine shop for 8 years. So old junk is no problem for us. We've been thinking of buying our own mill and offering services on private land from standing trees to finished lumber. I quite enjoy milling. We may have a line on a small job this summer doing a few miles of fenceline for a friend. He had a guy do another piece with a hydro axe and some hand falling and they gouged him like $50,000 for it. In my prime cat skinning days I would have had it fell, cleaned up and stumped in a day and the whole bill would have been under $5,000 including trucking. I thought that was really shady. So we might take it on, see if we can have the wood and use my buddies little ancient John Deere crawler to skid it. What can't be sawn could be cut into firewood, split and sold too. If we made enough off of it to put towards a skidder or mill (or both) then we are off to the races. I've also been buying, fixing, and selling saws to save up towards this on the side.


----------



## Skeans

flying pig said:


> Well, I started reading this thread in the last part of December while bored staying in a hotel in Hinton while working on some of our rental equipment at a coal mine. I've just finished reading the latest posts. What a trip, I feel like I've gained a lot of knowledge and have a much better insight into where hazards may lie. It's too bad I didn't actually take notes on things that didn't quite catch as I was reading them, that would have helped me to gain an understanding of a lot more of the techniques shown here. Obviously though having ideas in my head is a lot different than actually learning to apply the stuff I've learned here, learning saw skills and how different wood and environmental factors react. I'd equate it to taking an online crash course in brain surgery and hoping and praying your way through actually doing it. Ha ha. It's also too bad that so many of the great contributors to this thread haven't been posting here anymore. Has anyone heard from Burvol? Ted posted about a year ago? How's Glenn doing? What about Jon? Colton?
> 
> Anyway, Bitz, you've kinda lit a bit of a fire under me and sparked an interest in maybe logging in some way shape or form as a side job as a few of you guys here do it. A really good buddy of mine and I have been talking about it and kind of shopping around trying to come up with a plan. We've found a few skidders that I think would work well enough for us. I'm a HD mechanic and former dozer operator with 11 years experience, my buddy is a dual ticketed HD and millwright who worked in a machine shop for 8 years. So old junk is no problem for us. We've been thinking of buying our own mill and offering services on private land from standing trees to finished lumber. I quite enjoy milling. We may have a line on a small job this summer doing a few miles of fenceline for a friend. He had a guy do another piece with a hydro axe and some hand falling and they gouged him like $50,000 for it. In my prime cat skinning days I would have had it fell, cleaned up and stumped in a day and the whole bill would have been under $5,000 including trucking. I thought that was really shady. So we might take it on, see if we can have the wood and use my buddies little ancient John Deere crawler to skid it. What can't be sawn could be cut into firewood, split and sold too. If we made enough off of it to put towards a skidder or mill (or both) then we are off to the races. I've also been buying, fixing, and selling saws to save up towards this on the side.


Can I ask why you haven't looked at a grapple cat like a d4h like I have?

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----------



## flying pig

Grapple cat may be ideal for the kind of work we are looking at if it winds up being tight stuff like fence lines with stumping and that. But, it's pretty flat ground here too. I definitely wouldn't be objected to the idea. Biggest deterrent for me would be undercarriage cost. It's not like tires imo, undercarriage you are best off going new. You can't really get by with half worn stuff as it's almost always dry or has something wrong, plus mismatching components causes extremely accelerated wear. Tires are simpler that way.

The skidder we've been thinking of is a Clark 667 grapple/line combo. We've located 3 machines, two locally and one about 6hrs away.


----------



## Skeans

flying pig said:


> Grapple cat may be ideal for the kind of work we are looking at if it winds up being tight stuff like fence lines with stumping and that. But, it's pretty flat ground here too. I definitely wouldn't be objected to the idea. Biggest deterrent for me would be undercarriage cost. It's not like tires imo, undercarriage you are best off going new. You can't really get by with half worn stuff as it's almost always dry or has something wrong, plus mismatching components causes extremely accelerated wear. Tires are simpler that way.
> 
> The skidder we've been thinking of is a Clark 667 grapple/line combo. We've located 3 machines, two locally and one about 6hrs away.


My D4H has a line in the arch yes undercarriage is a concern but for most seasons in PNW they work the best.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## northmanlogging

flying pig said:


> Well, I started reading this thread in the last part of December while bored staying in a hotel in Hinton while working on some of our rental equipment at a coal mine. I've just finished reading the latest posts. What a trip, I feel like I've gained a lot of knowledge and have a much better insight into where hazards may lie. It's too bad I didn't actually take notes on things that didn't quite catch as I was reading them, that would have helped me to gain an understanding of a lot more of the techniques shown here. Obviously though having ideas in my head is a lot different than actually learning to apply the stuff I've learned here, learning saw skills and how different wood and environmental factors react. I'd equate it to taking an online crash course in brain surgery and hoping and praying your way through actually doing it. Ha ha. It's also too bad that so many of the great contributors to this thread haven't been posting here anymore. Has anyone heard from Burvol? Ted posted about a year ago? How's Glenn doing? What about Jon? Colton?
> 
> Anyway, Bitz, you've kinda lit a bit of a fire under me and sparked an interest in maybe logging in some way shape or form as a side job as a few of you guys here do it. A really good buddy of mine and I have been talking about it and kind of shopping around trying to come up with a plan. We've found a few skidders that I think would work well enough for us. I'm a HD mechanic and former dozer operator with 11 years experience, my buddy is a dual ticketed HD and millwright who worked in a machine shop for 8 years. So old junk is no problem for us. We've been thinking of buying our own mill and offering services on private land from standing trees to finished lumber. I quite enjoy milling. We may have a line on a small job this summer doing a few miles of fenceline for a friend. He had a guy do another piece with a hydro axe and some hand falling and they gouged him like $50,000 for it. In my prime cat skinning days I would have had it fell, cleaned up and stumped in a day and the whole bill would have been under $5,000 including trucking. I thought that was really shady. So we might take it on, see if we can have the wood and use my buddies little ancient John Deere crawler to skid it. What can't be sawn could be cut into firewood, split and sold too. If we made enough off of it to put towards a skidder or mill (or both) then we are off to the races. I've also been buying, fixing, and selling saws to save up towards this on the side.




Take a long hard look at what the folks around you are running and ask why. 

Skidders are fun and all, but they are getting obsolete, what with forwarders and ctl being the norm in many places.

Then take a look at the type of work you are likely to wind up in at first, small plots a few loads here and there or lots of wood and wide open plots, will dictate the kind of equipment you will need far more then the opinion of a handful of nut jobs on the interweb (me included)

Any how best of luck to you and yer friend, though I would advise against any kind of partnership especially with some one you actually like... business mistakes however slight can ruin a friendship quick. At the very least set some hard fast rules at the beginning... if it goes south it can sting bad...

As for most of the folks that have posted in this thread over the years... most grew up or got busy with life, the rest baled a few years ago after a spate of hackers fuggered up the site for a few months... there are other sites, but they each have their quirks, like annoying emojis all over, or super strict rules on language or just difficult to navigate... anyway... I talk too much...


----------



## flying pig

Northman, a forwarder would fit the bill quite nicely too. That's the problem with seeing what everyone else is running here, no one is really doing it. There are big shows that are all mechanized, brushing crews who don't really salvage anything and that's about it. No one is really working with farmers it seems. Small operators are mostly doing lease sites for salvage and not much else. The small operators that I know run a buncher and a grapple skidder, and had been contracting their processing to another fellow with a delimber. We'd be going in thinking outside the box, maybe it would work, maybe not. The plan would be to start off with nothing financed, we can either afford to do a job and we either make money or not, but the lowest overhead possible would clearly be the goal. Pay for our equipment cash and that way it could be sold to pay bills if we really lost our ass. My father in law and current employer have both been great influences there, one has shown me to make my company grow itself, the other has shown me how much of a hole you can dig yourself into if you bite off too much too quick and rely on credit. 

I hear you on being leary of going into business with a friend. That is something like you say that we'll have to figure out solid. We're on a good start, we already have worked together for 3 years and we hang out outside of work a ton, and when we do it's usually something in the bush involving chainsaws anyways ha ha. But no, I understand exactly what you mean. it's just an idea so far, and who knows? By the end of this little job for our friend we'll know if going after it any further is viable or not, and we won't have anything invested but our time and a little wear and tear on our saws and his cat, plus a bit of diesel and gas.


----------



## northmanlogging

well... what ya waiting for?


----------



## Woos31

northmanlogging said:


> on with more fun stuff
> 
> I don't usually get to fall multiple stems without limbing and bucking or dicking with something else, so this was kinda fun. Makes me wanna see how much I could clear in a day if all i had to do was dump and move.



A dump show is a good change of pace now and again


----------



## bitzer

Swingin an ugly. 




And to prove I didn't tear the hell out of it.


----------



## RandyMac

fiber puller...


----------



## bitzer

Yer damn right! Good sounds. How's the coast?


----------



## madhatte

RandyMac said:


> fiber puller...



AAAAAH, been too long since we heard those words hereabouts!


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## RandyMac

YeeHaww!
The coast is cold and damp, rains every night in the Redwoods.


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## bitzer

Sounds like my kinda place!


Lookin at a lot of this these days. Damn shame what eab is doin.


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## bitzer

Got a hickie from my saw today too.


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## Skeans

bitzer said:


> Got a hickie from my saw today too.
> 
> View attachment 591589


Time to jump up to the 395 those vibrations kill after a while 

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## bitzer

Skeans said:


> Time to jump up to the 395 those vibrations kill after a while
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Naw I was wrapping up a job when the tip went out on my good bar. Went out to the truck to find that i hadn't replaced the tip on my back up bar. It was pinched pretty tight but I had to run it. Even though she smoked a lot she held on for the day. I slung the saw up on my shoulder once as habit between trees. My gloves saved my hand. I carried it jungle style for the rest of the day.


----------



## hseII

bitzer said:


> Naw I was wrapping up a job when the tip went out on my good bar. Went out to the truck to find that i hadn't replaced the tip on my back up bar. It was pinched pretty tight but I had to run it. Even though she smoked a lot she held on for the day. I slung the saw up on my shoulder once as habit between trees. My gloves saved my hand. I carried it jungle style for the rest of the day.



I'm going to cautiously ask for an explanation for " Jungle Style." 

Curiosity is getting the better of me: Please Explain.


----------



## northmanlogging

fatties are fun...

Is it bad that these are just kind a ho hum these days? Could be just that the LO had taken all the fun out of this job... anyway a vid fer yer enjoyment.


----------



## RandyMac

A tip grabber.


----------



## 2dogs

Matt I could smell that cedar all the way down here in Cali.


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## bitzer

hseII said:


> I'm going to cautiously ask for an explanation for " Jungle Style."
> 
> Curiosity is getting the better of me: Please Explain.



Any time I see a guy carrying a saw in the jungle this is what it looks like. 

https://goo.gl/images/EmR7cf


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## bitzer

RandyMac said:


> A tip grabber.


That's what she said.


----------



## northmanlogging

There's them guys that hand on to the top handle and sling it over their back, bar pointing down... looks uncomfortable to me though. That and it seems like I've only seen short bars do that.


----------



## hseII

bitzer said:


> Any time I see a guy carrying a saw in the jungle this is what it looks like.
> 
> https://goo.gl/images/EmR7cf



Could you imagine having to ride that 1106 all day?


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## bitzer

hseII said:


> Could you imagine having to ride that 1106 all day?


No muffler too I'll bet


----------



## bitzer

My wife says to me last night at my son's baseball game we should sit by him in the dugout. I said "and stare into the sun?" I'm in it all day." 
"No you're not,"she says,"you're in the woods." 

Yeah for a minute or two while I'm throwing one into the gap.


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## Skeans

The last few alders that got finished up of that corner and what's left of the fir to do.












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## bitzer

Those fir look like a lot of fun. Those alder seem about like the ash I was cutting today. Barely worth the time. They have a decent market for those though right? If they're good enough?


----------



## Skeans

bitzer said:


> Those fir look like a lot of fun. Those alder seem about like the ash I was cutting today. Barely worth the time. They have a decent market for those though right? If they're good enough?


Yeah it's paying just as good as export fir and I can cut them in 16's or 20's is the preferred lengths with the mill paying the same as 40's. A few of the butts were up around 32" and 36" so there's some footage there most are 120 to 140 tall.

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## bitzer

Even your short wood is taller then my tall wood. This one was from the job I wrapped up on Tuesday. The entire job was above average for height. This one had 72' to a 10" top.


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## Trx250r180

bitzer said:


> Those fir look like a lot of fun. Those alder seem about like the ash I was cutting today. Barely worth the time. They have a decent market for those though right? If they're good enough?


It's hard to believe but some higher end kitchen cabinets are built out of that wood we consider a nuisance .So it does sell . Stuff grows like weeds along with maple around my place .Does not even make very good firewood in my opinion .


----------



## bitzer

My view from the truck next to the woods today. The Horicon Marsh. It's about 32,000 acres.


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## rwoods

Is that near Beaver Dam? Ron


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## bitzer

rwoods said:


> Is that near Beaver Dam? Ron


Yep. Beaver Dam is about 5 miles from the southwest corner of the marsh. I'm on the East side of the marsh looking west here.


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## rwoods

Been there once many years ago. Looked like prime duck and goose country. Ron


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## Ronaldo

Oh yea, famous for goose populations in the fall migration. 

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## bitzer

Yep lots of waterfowlin. Interesting history- they dammed the river coming out if it to make the first sawmill in the area in the mid 1800s. It created the largest man-made lake at the time. The feds caught wind of it some years later and made them pull the plug. Then someone tried to drain it to farm it. That didn't work.


----------



## MilanRV

some videos from slovakia  this time with horses in action  few historic shots and a video from a horse show


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## rwoods

Beautiful country. I once knew a beautiful girl from Slovakia. One of the nicest persons I have ever met. Ron


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## 1270d

The hay burners sure can pull toward the end in that last video


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## hseII

1270d said:


> The hay burners sure can pull toward the end in that last video



The Name is Appropriately Used.


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## Skeans

Nothing like having to cut along a line









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## bitzer

Alright what's with the double snipe on the first stump? I've been waiting for someone else to ask. That so you can pull stems over it? Or you have to reface? Not like I've never done that!


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## Skeans

bitzer said:


> Alright what's with the double snipe on the first stump? I've been waiting for someone else to ask. That so you can pull stems over it? Or you have to reface? Not like I've never done that!


It's sniped to help with slabbing out the next log or logs and hopefully not break one out but how often does it do either?

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## InfiniteJest




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## northmanlogging

Long reach shovel logging?

interesting.


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## InfiniteJest

Road side salvage. Little FS B.S. sale.


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## bitzer

Skeans said:


> It's sniped to help with slabbing out the next log or logs and hopefully not break one out but how often does it do either?
> 
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



Not a typical problem for me tho it does happen occasionally. How was the r&r? ******* rain never wants to stop here. I'm getting fat and lazy. Starting to get a bad habit of sleeping in. I'd say the current conditions are weeding out the weak ones. I may have to start cutting some trees in the city. I hate that.


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## Skeans

bitzer said:


> Not a typical problem for me tho it does happen occasionally. How was the r&r? ******* rain never wants to stop here. I'm getting fat and lazy. Starting to get a bad habit of sleeping in. I'd say the current conditions are weeding out the weak ones. I may have to start cutting some trees in the city. I hate that.


R&R was good and fun but we picked the wrong week to take off we're pretty well shut down right now as well, this damn heat wave here has us on level 3 so no hand falling. No cutting in the rain why not? 

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## bitzer

Skeans said:


> R&R was good and fun but we picked the wrong week to take off we're pretty well shut down right now as well, this damn heat wave here has us on level 3 so no hand falling. No cutting in the rain why not?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



Isn't that the way it goes? I cut every day, rain, shine, sleet, snow, wind. I even cut during a thunderstorm the other day until it got too hairy. When the wind starts blowing a steady 25-30 I'm usually out of there unless it's huge, heavy leaning oak then it doesn't matter. No skidding tho. If I can't skid theres no motivation to get up super early I guess. I seem to stay in better shape and get more done when I can cut/skid the same day. Instead of cut, cut, cut, cut, skid, cut, cut, cut, skid...


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## Skeans

bitzer said:


> Isn't that the way it goes? I cut every day, rain, shine, sleet, snow, wind. I even cut during a thunderstorm the other day until it got too hairy. When the wind starts blowing a steady 25-30 I'm usually out of there unless it's huge, heavy leaning oak then it doesn't matter. No skidding tho. If I can't skid theres no motivation to get up super early I guess. I seem to stay in better shape and get more done when I can cut/skid the same day. Instead of cut, cut, cut, cut, skid, cut, cut, cut, skid...


Always it seems like. If we're clear cutting I like to try to stay at least 3 days ahead of the yarding especially when using the harvester just in case of break downs as well a deck can be built to process at the end of the day. Hand falling the bigger stuff it doesn't take long to put a load together I think our highest log load of export has been 12 or 15 at that pace you can cut and skid at the same time.

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## bitzer

Skeans said:


> Always it seems like. If we're clear cutting I like to try to stay at least 3 days ahead of the yarding especially when using the harvester just in case of break downs as well a deck can be built to process at the end of the day. Hand falling the bigger stuff it doesn't take long to put a load together I think our highest log load of export has been 12 or 15 at that pace you can cut and skid at the same time.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


The problem with cutting ahead too far in big hardwood is you bury your logs in big tops in a hurry which is a pain for forwarding. I try to cut them up some but you spend a lot of time tossing tops around just to find your logs.


----------



## Skeans

bitzer said:


> The problem with cutting ahead too far in big hardwood is you bury your logs in big tops in a hurry which is a pain for forwarding. I try to cut them up some but you spend a lot of time tossing tops around just to find your logs.


Completely understand that been there done that a time or two myself.

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## Skeans

Last few trees then off to another clear cut with the harvester.









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## northmanlogging

a teaser...


----------



## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> a teaser...
> 
> View attachment 595170


Precut springboards?

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## northmanlogging

Skeans said:


> Precut springboards?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Hels yeah.

None of them wobbly branches fer this fatty!

Most of my work is fairly small acreage so I'm never like real far from the crummy, and to be honest I set this up day before cause i was just running the excavator anyway, had the little saw on board and the boards are pretty light.

Plus with the steel shoe on em they are a whole lot more stable then a stick jammed in a hole, you can get all sorts of stupid and bounce em around to change direction gives ya better options while yer up the 6' or so.


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## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> Hels yeah.
> 
> None of them wobbly branches fer this fatty!
> 
> Most of my work is fairly small acreage so I'm never like real far from the crummy, and to be honest I set this up day before cause i was just running the excavator anyway, had the little saw on board and the boards are pretty light.
> 
> Plus with the steel shoe on em they are a whole lot more stable then a stick jammed in a hole, you can get all sorts of stupid and bounce em around to change direction gives ya better options while yer up the 6' or so.


That takes all the fun out of cutting your own sticks and setting them up right.

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## Skeans

This is the one out of those last two trees right behind it is the property line most of the time we don't clean this well before cutting but welcome to fire season.
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## northmanlogging

some would call that cheating... well I call it cheating...

having nearly fell off sticks and branches enough times, I really appreciate the pre-made boards, they also fit nice between the tool box, fuel tank and fender of the crummy so the pretty much go with me everywhere.



Skeans said:


> That takes all the fun out of cutting your own sticks and setting them up right.


----------



## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> some would call that cheating... well I call it cheating...
> 
> having nearly fell off sticks and branches enough times, I really appreciate the pre-made boards, they also fit nice between the tool box, fuel tank and fender of the crummy so the pretty much go with me everywhere.


Another idea is cut one to fit in between the rails in the slot of the back of your bed dual usage.

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## northmanlogging

fun fun

the first side anyway, second side was the really scary side, fell it off into standing timber... tried to roll on top of me wiff nowheres to go... slipped off and hit ground first though...


----------



## bitzer

Where's video of the fun one northy? 

Skeans that a 36" bar? I'm trying to gauge yer height. Hahaha


----------



## Skeans

bitzer said:


> Where's video of the fun one northy?
> 
> Skeans that a 36" bar? I'm trying to gauge yer height. Hahaha


Yep running the 395, roughly 5' 6" not exactly a big guy and still on the light side at 130 140 range.

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----------



## northmanlogging

bitzer said:


> Where's video of the fun one northy?
> 
> Skeans that a 36" bar? I'm trying to gauge yer height. Hahaha


didn't vid the sketchy one, I'm paranoid, that and I figured if it went real wrong there wouldn't be anyone around to post it anyway.

But I did have to get up on the top board to pull it off. And I rocked the snot out of my last 36" chain so had to switch hit with the 32". Nothing quite like trying to cut the back side of a tree standing on one foot on a 2x8 held in place by a dull lip of hammered sheet metal 8' off the ground.


----------



## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> didn't vid the sketchy one, I'm paranoid, that and I figured if it went real wrong there wouldn't be anyone around to post it anyway.
> 
> But I did have to get up on the top board to pull it off. And I rocked the snot out of my last 36" chain so had to switch hit with the 32". Nothing quite like trying to cut the back side of a tree standing on one foot on a 2x8 held in place by a dull lip of hammered sheet metal 8' off the ground.


Next time cut a window to cut in

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## bitzer

Skeans said:


> Next time cut a window to cut in
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


I hadn't ever thought of that until one of the guys from BC posted it on here. Haven't tried it tho. I don't need a spring board very often


----------



## bitzer

Skeans said:


> Yep running the 395, roughly 5' 6" not exactly a big guy and still on the light side at 130 140 range.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



I think I'm somewhere between you and northy


----------



## bitzer

northmanlogging said:


> didn't vid the sketchy one, I'm paranoid, that and I figured if it went real wrong there wouldn't be anyone around to post it anyway.
> 
> But I did have to get up on the top board to pull it off. And I rocked the snot out of my last 36" chain so had to switch hit with the 32". Nothing quite like trying to cut the back side of a tree standing on one foot on a 2x8 held in place by a dull lip of hammered sheet metal 8' off the ground.


I don't blame ya for not videoing it. Seems like bad juju as soon as you're recording. Something dumb always happens that never happens. Same thing with when the Forester comes in the woods. I won't get pinched for days and sure enough I get pinched bad turn around and there he is.


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## rwoods

Skeans said:


> Yep running the 395, roughly 5' 6" not exactly a big guy and still on the light side at 130 140 range.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



Light but tough. Enjoyed the video.

Ron


----------



## Skeans

rwoods said:


> Light but tough. Enjoyed the video.
> 
> Ron


Thanks Ron

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## Skeans

bitzer said:


> I hadn't ever thought of that until one of the guys from BC posted it on here. Haven't tried it tho. I don't need a spring board very often


I've had to do it a time or two and really don't care for it but will do it of the situation requires.

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## northmanlogging

Window? explain please


----------



## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> Window? explain please


A block you can lay in to finish your cut

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## northmanlogging

Skeans said:


> A block you can lay in to finish your cut
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



Ah, not sure I'm ok with that... nor do I think that I'll ever have anything big enough for me to fit in and not look damn silly


----------



## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> Ah, not sure I'm ok with that... nor do I think that I'll ever have anything big enough for me to fit in and not look damn silly


It's more about getting the job done then looking decent I don't care for it either but on a board sometimes there's no choice.

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## northmanlogging

sarcasm... i look silly no matter what I'm doing.

haven't met a tree I couldn't fall with a 32" bar, though I've used bigger cause its easier/safer, 5' is the biggest and probably the biggest I'll ever see, and that can be done from one side with a 32" if ya know what yer doing and are a little lucky.


----------



## rwoods

northmanlogging said:


> sarcasm... i look silly no matter what I'm doing.
> 
> haven't met a tree I couldn't fall with a 32" bar, though I've used bigger cause its easier/safer, 5' is the biggest and probably the biggest I'll ever see, and that can be done from one side with a 32" if ya know what yer doing and are a little lucky.



I shouldn't be posting here but the largest snag I have cut to date was a little over 6 feet. I used a 33" bar (guessing effective 30" due to large falling spikes) and a little Euro style flare removal. Not promoting this as a universal method given holding wood concerns. Also takes time that a longer bar could have saved. Ron


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## northmanlogging

rwoods said:


> I shouldn't be posting here but the largest snag I have cut to date was a little over 6 feet. I used a 33" bar (guessing effective 30" due to large falling spikes) and a little Euro style flare removal. Not promoting this as a universal method given holding wood concerns. Also takes time that a longer bar could have saved. Ron



a guy can also poke the center out from the face side, gets all that wood ya can't reach with too short a bar.


----------



## Skeans

rwoods said:


> I shouldn't be posting here but the largest snag I have cut to date was a little over 6 feet. I used a 33" bar (guessing effective 30" due to large falling spikes) and a little Euro style flare removal. Not promoting this as a universal method given holding wood concerns. Also takes time that a longer bar could have saved. Ron


Ron the big thing is you got it down safely to this day I hate when a Forester say I have to keep a dead snag for a wildlife tree it's a target to slow stuff down.

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## rwoods

As an amateur firewooder I have bucked a dozen or so 4' to 5' urban trees that the line clearing crews put down, but personally I have never felled a tree over 36" dbh (only a few over 30"). I have cut down a handful of 4'+ storm damaged snags - some were challenging and fun. Maybe one day, I'll make it out West and one of you fellas will show me how to put a nice straight and tall softwood on the ground where intended. Nothing fancy needed to get my adrenaline going - don't need a lean, a 60* slope or spring boards, and definitely don't need a block. Preferably the last standing tree on level ground in the middle of a clear cut. If you ever come across one of those save it for me. Ron


----------



## Trx250r180

You would do fine Ron.


----------



## northmanlogging

rwoods said:


> As an amateur firewooder I have bucked a dozen or so 4' to 5' urban trees that the line clearing crews put down, but personally I have never felled a tree over 36" dbh (only a few over 30"). I have cut down a handful of 4'+ storm damaged snags - some were challenging and fun. Maybe one day, I'll make it out West and one of you fellas will show me how to put a nice straight and tall softwood on the ground where intended. Nothing fancy needed to get my adrenaline going - don't need a lean, a 60* slope or spring boards, and definitely don't need a block. Preferably the last standing tree on level ground in the middle of a clear cut. If you ever come across one of those save it for me. Ron



Well, get out here then.


----------



## northmanlogging

Though i think there is less chance of destroying good timber if yer tossing em into some other trees, more dangerous though.


----------



## Trx250r180

Had to make this one fall into the wind, started with 2/3 of the back cut first and set the wedges ,did the face ,then finished the back cut while pounding it over ,neighbors house was behind me ,it had to go where it was ,had to go between other trees also without hanging up in them . Got 70 feet of good millable wood was 18 inches at 70 feet ,maybe a 100 foot stick total. Finish the bigger one today , its down but need to buck it still it was 32 at the stump cut ,should be lot of boards in it ,couple more are down the steep hill ,those should be fun to get to the road.


----------



## bitzer

For you guys with rw bars- how much easier do they bend in comparison to a regular bar? I tweak and torque on mine a lot. I'd like to try one but I feel like I would twist it all to hell. I pop the face out with em, bend it to ride the bind out of a buck, bend to roll the chain over, bend when I don't want to let go of the saw on a low stump but I'm on my feet and I need to look up etc...


----------



## Skeans

bitzer said:


> For you guys with rw bars- how much easier do they bend in comparison to a regular bar? I tweak and torque on mine a lot. I'd like to try one but I feel like I would twist it all to hell. I pop the face out with em, bend it to ride the bind out of a buck, bend to roll the chain over, bend when I don't want to let go of the saw on a low stump but I'm on my feet and I need to look up etc...


I know my 36 RW Oregon bar if you don't watch it it'll flex in a cut, I can still pop a face out with it or use the dogs to pop them.

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## hseII

bitzer said:


> For you guys with rw bars- how much easier do they bend in comparison to a regular bar? I tweak and torque on mine a lot. I'd like to try one but I feel like I would twist it all to hell. I pop the face out with em, bend it to ride the bind out of a buck, bend to roll the chain over, bend when I don't want to let go of the saw on a low stump but I'm on my feet and I need to look up etc...



Oregon's are too flexible for me.

Stihl ES Lights I'm trying out seem to be the best choice.


----------



## Trx250r180

bitzer said:


> For you guys with rw bars- how much easier do they bend in comparison to a regular bar? I tweak and torque on mine a lot. I'd like to try one but I feel like I would twist it all to hell. I pop the face out with em, bend it to ride the bind out of a buck, bend to roll the chain over, bend when I don't want to let go of the saw on a low stump but I'm on my feet and I need to look up etc...


The older ones used to flex more ,and centers used to pop out of them ,i have never had one pop yet ,even if a tree sets back ,they must have stiffened them up in the last couple years ,don't seem to bow as bad ,the stihl light is a few oz heavier ,but stiffer ,i run big chain (.404 )that helps some too ,I use the axe to pop the faces out so the flex don't bother me much ,if you do a lot of limbing ,your back will thank you for the rw bar ,they make a difference ,toughest bar i have is a cannon with the stihl type tip ,you could double it as a springboard almost ,i use them on the mill to get straiter cuts .


----------



## Skeans

Trx250r180 said:


> The older ones used to flex more ,and centers used to pop out of them ,i have never had one pop yet ,even if a tree sets back ,they must have stiffened them up in the last couple years ,don't seem to bow as bad ,the stihl light is a few oz heavier ,but stiffer ,i run big chain (.404 )that helps some too ,I use the axe to pop the faces out so the flex don't bother me much ,if you do a lot of limbing ,your back will thank you for the rw bar ,they make a difference ,toughest bar i have is a cannon with the stihl type tip ,you could double it as a springboard almost ,i use them on the mill to get straiter cuts .


The only bad part about Cannon is weight and they're not exactly cheap either but they're worth it from a 42" on up. The only cannon I have that's floppy is a 60" it looks like a wet noodle when you're hiking out with it.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## northmanlogging

bitzer said:


> For you guys with rw bars- how much easier do they bend in comparison to a regular bar? I tweak and torque on mine a lot. I'd like to try one but I feel like I would twist it all to hell. I pop the face out with em, bend it to ride the bind out of a buck, bend to roll the chain over, bend when I don't want to let go of the saw on a low stump but I'm on my feet and I need to look up etc...


The light bars flex a great deal more, which is nice if you need to out a chain back on or get the tip started in an awkward position, the trade off is you have to be more care with making straight cuts, limbing for example i flex the bar quite a bit and end up throwing chains 3 or 4 times a day, if ya pay attention to chain tension a bit more it helps.

As far as bending them its better that ya don't the oregon type with the aluminium panels can be straightened a couple times but the stihl honey comb type are pretty much ****ed, got a stack of dicked 32's if anyone wants em


----------



## bitzer

It sounds like it may not be the bar for me. There's several 3/8 63 gauge rw bars on walmart.com for $134 a piece free shipping. I've had a few cannons and I like them but they are heavy I've had guys tell me sugiharas are the ticket. I've run oregons for years and they seem to wear out as fast as anything else. I've had carltons, cannons, and stihls in between.


----------



## hseII

northmanlogging said:


> The light bars flex a great deal more, which is nice if you need to out a chain back on or get the tip started in an awkward position, the trade off is you have to be more care with making straight cuts, limbing for example i flex the bar quite a bit and end up throwing chains 3 or 4 times a day, if ya pay attention to chain tension a bit more it helps.
> 
> As far as bending them its better that ya don't the oregon type with the aluminium panels can be straightened a couple times but the stihl honey comb type are pretty much ****ed, got a stack of dicked 32's if anyone wants em



Great. 

You can't straighten them in a Press?


----------



## rwoods

NM, not to worry. Mitgrating geese or anything else in sight and I will get it hung. Ron


----------



## rwoods

hseII said:


> Great.
> 
> You can't straighten them in a Press?



If honeycomb like aircraft flooring the structural integrity comes from the honeycomb.

Ron


----------



## Skeans

bitzer said:


> It sounds like it may not be the bar for me. There's several 3/8 63 gauge rw bars on walmart.com for $134 a piece free shipping. I've had a few cannons and I like them but they are heavy I've had guys tell me sugiharas are the ticket. I've run oregons for years and they seem to wear out as fast as anything else. I've had carltons, cannons, and stihls in between.


I run 32" sugihara most of the time but in that bigger wood I've been in the 36 has fit the ticket better plus I can run the 395 easier to produce just a touch more a day.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## northmanlogging

hseII said:


> Great.
> 
> You can't straighten them in a Press?


Tried hammering them a couple times, now granted they can be staightened if they are not real bad, but the honey comb isn't attached on one side so it acts weird under a hammer or even just tweaking em like with a standard solid bar. I current have 2 that have been ironed out and still cut straight, this pile is junk though if ya wanna give er a try, one of em looks straight but is twisted and wavy in all the wrong ways.


Bonus fire tank in the back ground and ye ole gyppo yarder


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## hseII

northmanlogging said:


> Tried hammering them a couple times, now granted they can be staightened if they are not real bad, but the honey comb isn't attached on one side so it acts weird under a hammer or even just tweaking em like with a standard solid bar. I current have 2 that have been ironed out and still cut straight, this pile is junk though if ya wanna give er a try, one of em looks straight but is twisted and wavy in all the wrong ways.View attachment 595987
> 
> 
> Bonus fire tank in the back ground and ye ole gyppo yarder



I'm going to be going out again for a couple weeks, but I'd love to give it a shot when I get back home.

I'll PM you my info & go from there with the details.

Thank You.


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## 1270d

One of the saw shops here bought a bar straightening machine this spring. It is the same as the one someone posted here a while back. Sort of a high speed hydraulic press rig. They have been super busy with it doing mostly harvester bars but I would imagine saw bars as well. 

It has a part to take out twist. They untwisted two for me last week. 15 bucks a pop. Maybe someone out your way has one North. I was never totally successful hammering twist out so have always pitched them in the scrap pile till now.


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## Skeans

1270d said:


> One of the saw shops here bought a bar straightening machine this spring. It is the same as the one someone posted here a while back. Sort of a high speed hydraulic press rig. They have been super busy with it doing mostly harvester bars but I would imagine saw bars as well.
> 
> It has a part to take out twist. They untwisted two for me last week. 15 bucks a pop. Maybe someone out your way has one North. I was never totally successful hammering twist out so have always pitched them in the scrap pile till now.


Are you talking about my shop press?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Skeans

This setup?






Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## northmanlogging

1270d said:


> One of the saw shops here bought a bar straightening machine this spring. It is the same as the one someone posted here a while back. Sort of a high speed hydraulic press rig. They have been super busy with it doing mostly harvester bars but I would imagine saw bars as well.
> 
> It has a part to take out twist. They untwisted two for me last week. 15 bucks a pop. Maybe someone out your way has one North. I was never totally successful hammering twist out so have always pitched them in the scrap pile till now.


on a standard bar or Hel anything solid metal, I can do pretty much what ever i wan't to it with just a hammer anvil and a good vice, this hollow stuff doesn't behave though. 

The 36" bar my 066 usually wears, i bent that on its first tree, ironed out enough to finish the day, and loved it up a little more when I got home, that was like 2 years ago and its still running fine, got a little burned when I let someone barrow it and consequently roasted the Piston and cylinder as well... but the bar still works.

And the bar on my back up 461 has some hammer marks in it as well. (that poor saw seems to get the **** beat out of it every time I decide to run it to keep things lubed) As it stands its got maybe 80 hrs on it in 3-4 years but one bent bar, broken tank handle, broken chain cover, not to mention all the nicks dings and bruises from rattling around in the back of the crummy... My main saws grips are worn smooth but over all its in better shape (though you can feel the difference in compression now) even though they are only about 4 months between the 2


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## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> on a standard bar or Hel anything solid metal, I can do pretty much what ever i wan't to it with just a hammer anvil and a good vice, this hollow stuff doesn't behave though.
> 
> The 36" bar my 066 usually wears, i bent that on its first tree, ironed out enough to finish the day, and loved it up a little more when I got home, that was like 2 years ago and its still running fine, got a little burned when I let someone barrow it and consequently roasted the Piston and cylinder as well... but the bar still works.
> 
> And the bar on my back up 461 has some hammer marks in it as well. (that poor saw seems to get the **** beat out of it every time I decide to run it to keep things lubed) As it stands its got maybe 80 hrs on it in 3-4 years but one bent bar, broken tank handle, broken chain cover, not to mention all the nicks dings and bruises from rattling around in the back of the crummy... My main saws grips are worn smooth but over all its in better shape (though you can feel the difference in compression now) even though they are only about 4 months between the 2


Damn you're hard on bars and saws, most of my bars are close to 7 years old once I started buying higher quality stuff.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## northmanlogging

One got runned over by a skidder (saw was... was... riding shotgun and bailed on me skidder tire 0 saw 1 bar 0 ultimately the dogs won that fight, tore up a sidewall and innertube, bent bar all that was wrong with saw)

the other 7-8 are mostly from trying to swing trees farther than is wise, cutting the off side a little more aggressively then is strictly wise to get some crooked SOB to steer away from a house, tip peeks through to the face side, tree sits on bar... game over man game over.


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## northmanlogging

The saw, just seems to be cursed, finds rocks in otherwise sandy ground, random limb snaps off and aims straight for the saw stuff like that, gets picked up and thrown by a barberchair, you know all the freaky timber falling stuff, but it only happens to that one saw? Dropped that saw in a swamp once... after breaking pull start on main saw, so had to spend an hour or so trying to dry out the engine so it would run again to finish the day. never mind fishing it out of brakish water... and knee deep mud.


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## 1270d

Skeans said:


> This setup?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



No, this https://www.cowiesequipment.ca/bar-tender. I talked with the guy that builds these on the phone for a while. We don't go through enough bars to make the 5k machine cost effective, but I recommended it to the saw shop and they have been doing good business with it.

We use a regular 50 ton press for our 3/4 pitch stuff


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## Skeans

1270d said:


> No, this https://www.cowiesequipment.ca/bar-tender. I talked with the guy that builds these on the phone for a while. We don't go through enough bars to make the 5k machine cost effective, but I recommended it to the saw shop and they have been doing good business with it.
> 
> We use a regular 50 ton press for our 3/4 pitch stuff


Interesting doesn't look all that hard to build either no reason it couldn't be an air over hydraulic foot port a power to run the cylinder.

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## Trx250r180

Now to turn round into bunch of squares poor skid loader would not pick up a few of them.Had to drag em with the truck.


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## KiwiBro

northmanlogging said:


> the other 7-8 are mostly from trying to swing trees farther than is wise, cutting the off side a little more aggressively then is strictly wise to get some crooked SOB to steer away from a house, tip peeks through to the face side, tree sits on bar... game over man game over.


Guilty, your honor.


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## bitzer

Monday. And I'm not in the habit of taking selfies but my phone camera no longer flips around.


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## Trx250r180




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## 1270d

bitzer said:


> Monday. And I'm not in the habit of taking selfies but my phone camera no longer flips around.
> 
> View attachment 596416



Did that one get your wheels turning?


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## madhatte

Definitely a waker-upper!


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## Skeans

Back to small wood clear cut at 40 years old or so nothing to hand cut but possibly two very large maples one is pushing 6 feet or so.









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## bitzer

1270d said:


> Did that one get your wheels turning?


Ha yeah I was chasing the backcut and hit something. The chain just quit on me. I pulled out and ran and could hear it open up. I was plenty far away by the time it crashed down where I was standing.


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## bitzer

Skeans said:


> Back to small wood clear cut at 40 years old or so nothing to hand cut but possibly two very large maples one is pushing 6 feet or so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk




Get some pics of those maples if you can . Big leaf?


----------



## Skeans

bitzer said:


> Get some pics of those maples if you can . Big leaf?


Yeah big leaf, I'll see about getting some tomorrow right now one is at the bottom of the cut and the other is a corner.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Trx250r180

bitzer said:


> Ha yeah I was chasing the backcut and hit something. The chain just quit on me. I pulled out and ran and could hear it open up. I was plenty far away by the time it crashed down where I was standing.


Was it leaning ? Or just a fluke chair out ?


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## Skeans

Trx250r180 said:


> Was it leaning ? Or just a fluke chair out ?


Sounds like an alder once in a blue you'll hit a spot that will just stop everything.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## bitzer

Skeans said:


> Yeah big leaf, I'll see about getting some tomorrow right now one is at the bottom of the cut and the other is a corner.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



That would be cool. Biggest merch Maple I've ever cut was 5'


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## bitzer

Trx250r180 said:


> Was it leaning ? Or just a fluke chair out ?


A little bit. Definitely a chaser even though it was heading uphill. I hit a piece of metal or something in the back cut and my chain just quit on me. At that point I ducked out. Normally wouldn't have been a problem to chase. Ash is a very splitty wood if not done right. When it is done right you can do a lot with it.


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## Skeans

bitzer said:


> That would be cool. Biggest merch Maple I've ever cut was 5'


This won't be merchant logs it'll be pulp lots of arms and probably about 15' is where they start working it'll be a mess the other is the same way.

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## bitzer

Skeans said:


> This won't be merchant logs it'll be pulp lots of arms and probably about 15' is where they start working it'll be a mess the other is the same way.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



We'd call that pasture grown. You get a 14' if it's straight enough. Gotta love cutting a cord of 8' out of those big ones. That'll test your tension reading skills.


----------



## Skeans

On another note I got a new place to stay when we work away. Thanks to my girl she made sure it was nicer then what I really needed but everyone that has them told us it's been well worth it. It even has a place to hold the grinders well I'm working away.




















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## Skeans

bitzer said:


> We'd call that pasture grown. You get a 14' if it's straight enough. Gotta love cutting a cord of 8' out of those big ones. That'll test your tension reading skills.


I wish we could do 8'6" but 17' is the shortest here for hardwoods and 12's for Doug fir where I am.

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## Skeans

bitzer said:


> Ha yeah I was chasing the backcut and hit something. The chain just quit on me. I pulled out and ran and could hear it open up. I was plenty far away by the time it crashed down where I was standing.


What style of chain are you running?

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## madhatte

Skeans said:


> On another note I got a new place to stay when we work away. Thanks to my girl she made sure it was nicer then what I really needed but everyone that has them told us it's been well worth it. It even has a place to hold the grinders well I'm working away.



Years ago when I cruised with a contact crew we all stayed in a motley assortment of campers and tents and trailers and stuff. I lived out of a Suburban, but the guy with the big nice 5th wheel hosted all the parties. Pretty sure his lady hooked that up too as thinking back I'm pretty sure he'd have got himself a truck camper to save on gas. Another guy had a super nice old Airstream that he was painstakingly restoring by hand in his down time. It was a shell full of rat turds when he got it.


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## bitzer

Skeans said:


> What style of chain are you running?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



It's round ground skip. Full chisel Oregon. Until I can buy a square grinder I have no interest in filing. For now I made some "adjustments" to my round grinder. It cuts at 30 degrees under the top plate instead of the recommended 60. I use a narrow wheel to nip just underneath there.

That chain that chaired the tree was in rough shape after it was done. I'm pretty sure I hit some metal in the tree on the backside.


----------



## RandyMac

I used a small slide on camper, with a trailer to keep the work stuff in. 
Stayed in campgrounds or near the site.


----------



## madhatte

RandyMac said:


> I used a small slide on camper, with a trailer to keep the work stuff in.
> Stayed in campgrounds or near the site.



I've seen that setup a few times, too. Practical, cheap, effective.


----------



## rwoods

While RandyMac was living the life and running metal saws, I was spending time in school - for a while residing in an old Avon slide-in sitting on a 1971 3/4 ton Chevy. Just had to move to a different parking space each day and keep the lights off at night to keep the campus cops at bay. Too bad my dad wanted it back. I could still live in the thing. I bet it is around somewhere much like many of the old saws - it was sturdy. It had plywood cabinets and solid wood millwork; probably from some birch trees Gologit cut. Pop added his own touches - an old Caddy front bumper for the rear bumper to provide a step. He reversed the order of the privacy glass in the full jalousie windowed door so he could see out the back through the rear view mirror - my mother wasn't so keen on that as it gave the outside world an inside view as well. Pop didn't really care what other folks saw. Ron

Similar model.


----------



## InfiniteJest

'69 road runner. The work house.


----------



## bitzer

InfiniteJest said:


> View attachment 597144
> 
> 
> '69 road runner. The work house.



You getting into any big timber out there lately?


----------



## Trx250r180

I had to pick this one up one end at a time to get on the mill ,skid loader wanted to tip forward on me ,28 inch bar would not work on this one so put the 32 on ,i think i am pushing the limits of this little chainsaw mill that is rated for 14 inch logs lol .Top broke out of this tree at 75-80 feet you guys have any tips to prevent braking the tops out ? Or is it unavoidable sometimes ? I think the bushy branches up high had no where to collapse into ,i fell it alongside a road also so was pretty hard gravel base .I notice in the softer dirt the limbs just stick into the ground .


----------



## Trx250r180

InfiniteJest said:


> View attachment 597144
> 
> 
> '69 road runner. The work house.


I like Road runner's ,it got a 383 mag in it ?


----------



## Skeans

Trx250r180 said:


> I had to pick this one up one end at a time to get on the mill ,skid loader wanted to tip forward on me ,28 inch bar would not work on this one so put the 32 on ,i think i am pushing the limits of this little chainsaw mill that is rated for 14 inch logs lol .Top broke out of this tree at 75-80 feet you guys have any tips to prevent braking the tops out ? Or is it unavoidable sometimes ? I think the bushy branches up high had no where to collapse into ,i fell it alongside a road also so was pretty hard gravel base .I notice in the softer dirt the limbs just stick into the ground .View attachment 597253
> View attachment 597257


Sometimes no matter how hard you try the sob will break or shatter sometimes helping them hold on the stump as long as possible can help.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## northmanlogging

Trx250r180 said:


> I had to pick this one up one end at a time to get on the mill ,skid loader wanted to tip forward on me ,28 inch bar would not work on this one so put the 32 on ,i think i am pushing the limits of this little chainsaw mill that is rated for 14 inch logs lol .Top broke out of this tree at 75-80 feet you guys have any tips to prevent braking the tops out ? Or is it unavoidable sometimes ? I think the bushy branches up high had no where to collapse into ,i fell it alongside a road also so was pretty hard gravel base .I notice in the softer dirt the limbs just stick into the ground .View attachment 597253
> View attachment 597257


Fall em up hill if possible, flat ish face lots of hold wood, it will pull more fiber but... the less optimal way is to brush neighboring trees, but this leads to lots of widow makers


----------



## Trx250r180

northmanlogging said:


> Fall em up hill if possible, flat ish face lots of hold wood, it will pull more fiber but... the less optimal way is to brush neighboring trees, but this leads to lots of widow makers


I have 3 fir on a steep hillside i need to get out for the sawmill ,last time i tried a cedar uphill it slid down at me,did not like that so i side fell the rest ,should i 45 degree them up hill maybe to help get them out easier ? ?


----------



## Skeans

Trx250r180 said:


> I have 3 fir on a steep hillside i need to get out for the sawmill ,last time i tried a cedar uphill it slid down at me,did not like that so i side fell the rest ,should i 45 degree them up hill maybe to help get them out easier ? ?


Always try to quart them down a hill with a open face or block them.

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## InfiniteJest

bitzer said:


> You getting into any big timber out there lately?



Not really, been east of the divide since November. 3 more days to shoot this job in the head and I'll be back on the west side in nice wood.


----------



## northmanlogging

Trx250r180 said:


> I have 3 fir on a steep hillside i need to get out for the sawmill ,last time i tried a cedar uphill it slid down at me,did not like that so i side fell the rest ,should i 45 degree them up hill maybe to help get them out easier ? ?


if its steep, side hill em or slightly up hill, going straight up hill provides for trying to run straight down hill. opinions vary of course. But the whole idea is to slow em down and not give em as far to gain speed.

Hard ground is hard on trees though, so sometimes is just doesn't matter. 

also if yer going to be pulling them down hill... (don't, if it can be avioded) then you have to use yer best judgment as to whats going to be safe, and effecient, straight down hill makes for less dragging cable up hill, but could potentially break more wood, but if you don't have a bunch of stumps/rocks to smack then slightly down hill is better. Its all down to the ground and where you have to skid from. In the end, safety trumps saving logs.


----------



## Trx250r180

northmanlogging said:


> if its steep, side hill em or slightly up hill, going straight up hill provides for trying to run straight down hill. opinions vary of course. But the whole idea is to slow em down and not give em as far to gain speed.
> 
> Hard ground is hard on trees though, so sometimes is just doesn't matter.
> 
> also if yer going to be pulling them down hill... (don't, if it can be avioded) then you have to use yer best judgment as to whats going to be safe, and effecient, straight down hill makes for less dragging cable up hill, but could potentially break more wood, but if you don't have a bunch of stumps/rocks to smack then slightly down hill is better. Its all down to the ground and where you have to skid from. In the end, safety trumps saving logs.


Downhill is a valley with creek at bottom ,they have to come uphill to a 12 foot wide road ,i have 150 foot of cable and a couple blocks i use ,have to short log them 25 foot or less ,i dont have a skidder just skid loader or my truck i can borrow a 580 case dozer if need to ,but i try to avoid using other peoples machines when possible.


----------



## northmanlogging

quarter em up hill then, but stay on the up hill side of the stump. Try not to send it over the road ridge but more aim to have it land just beside the road. Them ridges bust logs.


----------



## Gologit

Quarter them up the hill a little if you can. Sometimes a steep snipe in the bottom of your face will help them slide off the stump to where the butt hits first and slows everything down a little.
It doesn't always work but in brittle wood it gives you an extra cushion.
And sometimes nothing works and they blow up anyway.


----------



## Trx250r180

Went uphill sideways top of the tree 6 feet from the road ,thing was very heavy ,had to borrow the cat ,26 footers was doing nose wheelies with the dozer yarding up the hill with a block up above in a tree ,of course the heavy end rolled to the bottom ,1 26 footer and 2 13 foots ,had to buck them short to move them.i would not make money doing this stuff ,took me most of the day from like 1 pm till dark for 1 tree . ,Have 2 more like this one i am not looking forward too now .,steep hills make it into work .


----------



## northmanlogging

Big ****ing winch helps.

But its still a **** load of hand work, esp fer one brush ape


----------



## Skeans

Trx250r180 said:


> Went uphill sideways top of the tree 6 feet from the road ,thing was very heavy ,had to borrow the cat ,26 footers was doing nose wheelies with the dozer yarding up the hill with a block up above in a tree ,of course the heavy end rolled to the bottom ,1 26 footer and 2 13 foots ,had to buck them short to move them.i would not make money doing this stuff ,took me most of the day from like 1 pm till dark for 1 tree . ,Have 2 more like this one i am not looking forward too now .,steep hills make it into work .View attachment 597685
> View attachment 597686
> View attachment 597687
> View attachment 597688
> View attachment 597690
> View attachment 597692


How big of a cat?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Trx250r180

Skeans said:


> How big of a cat?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


550 case sound right ?its a small machine for logs but much bigger than my 3000 lb skid loader.


----------



## bitzer

The right equipment for the job is always huge. I did a clear cut for a house site and then a little select in the woods around it. I got the site done but then it got too wet to get the woods done with out rutting the **** out of it. So he tried for two days with his little tractor to drag and stack logs. He got about 10 of em. When it did dry I got the other 100 in about 3 hours. He was dumb founded at how much time he had wasted.


----------



## Skeans

Sounds like it'd be a good excuse to rent a 450 Deere with a winch and arch to finish out so you don't tear up a relationship with a neighbor.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Trx250r180

Skeans said:


> Sounds like it'd be a good excuse to rent a 450 Deere with a winch and arch to finish out so you don't tear up a relationship with a neighbor.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


He is my step dad ,he says the keys are in it,If i ever need it ,I wish he still had his John deer shovel and skidder now , He sold them when retired .Along with the dementional sawmill .A lot of cool toys that save a lot of time.The yarder and motorized carriage too went.also.


----------



## northmanlogging

Skeans said:


> Sounds like it'd be a good excuse to rent a 450 Deere with a winch and arch to finish out so you don't tear up a relationship with a neighbor.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk




Whens the last time you tried renting something with a winch on it?

Most of the rental places around here say their insurance won't cover it.

Though I've never tried industrial type rentals... aka pape, or nc


----------



## madmarksolomon

A demo may help on occasion. You can get a piece of equipment set up for you.


----------



## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> Whens the last time you tried renting something with a winch on it?
> 
> Most of the rental places around here say their insurance won't cover it.
> 
> Though I've never tried industrial type rentals... aka pape, or nc


Star has them, United, Pape, Peterson Cat, and a couple local tractor places have them as well as excavators with full guarding one even have a power clam. Also up your way is Tyler they have full shovels for rent as well as cats with the arch.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## InfiniteJest




----------



## madhatte

You got some shades on yer bumper there, just so you know.


----------



## bitzer

InfiniteJest said:


> View attachment 598193


You still in Montana? Idaho? I forget now. That looks a little steep


----------



## InfiniteJest

bitzer said:


> You still in Montana? Idaho? I forget now. That looks a little steep



East of the divide, montana. Steeper than the back of God's head.


----------



## bitzer

InfiniteJest said:


> East of the divide, montana. Steeper than the back of God's head.



That's the marrow of the world


----------



## bitzer

Is it one fer forward or three fer back?


----------



## 1270d

Ask a whistle punk I don't know


----------



## northmanlogging

bitzer said:


> Is it one fer forward or three fer back?


One is all stop, three is back I think?


I'm just a skidder jockey though... but one is all stop... the rest is a guess

7 long someone hurt... about all I know.


----------



## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> One is all stop, three is back I think?
> 
> 
> I'm just a skidder jockey though... but one is all stop... the rest is a guess
> 
> 7 long someone hurt... about all I know.


One is stop, three is forward, 7 long 2 short is man down.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Skeans

bitzer said:


> Is it one fer forward or three fer back?


Here's the cheaters way personally I've never been under a cable and never will be. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...ghcMA0&usg=AFQjCNE5AV2wHIKPeRiWSw_010gGVyf9iA

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Trx250r180

Tow hook Nate made coming in handy ,works for a yarder also pulling logs up hills with a block up in a tree above with a 150 foot cable .


----------



## Skeans

Man this smoke and ash is getting old it looks like the eclipse all over again.






Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## PNWfaller509

this pic is four or five years old dumped a few bigger ones than this logging a fire sale since then


----------



## Skeans

PNWfaller509 said:


> View attachment 600095
> this pic is four or five years old dumped a few bigger ones than this logging a fire sale since then


Washington?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## PNWfaller509

Skeans said:


> Washington?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



Yes sir. East side of the state.


----------



## Skeans

PNWfaller509 said:


> Yes sir. East side of the state.


Looks like fun a good family friend planted an east side pine that was full sap.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## bnmc98

Who you working for thats running a yarder out here on the east side?

That White Sulphur area?


----------



## PNWfaller509

bnmc98 said:


> Who you working for thats running a yarder out here on the east side?
> 
> That White Sulphur area?



It's not yarder ground they are skidding it


----------



## Skeans

bnmc98 said:


> Who you working for thats running a yarder out here on the east side?
> 
> That White Sulphur area?


That looks flat to me if that yarder ground damn.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## bnmc98

looked like a tower on top and they were all talking about how steep it was so my bad.


----------



## Skeans

bnmc98 said:


> looked like a tower on top and they were all talking about how steep it was so my bad.


Looks like an old shovel can to me which is common on the east side where the mills aren't as common.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## hseII

Trx250r180 said:


> Tow hook Nate made coming in handy ,works for a yarder also pulling logs up hills with a block up in a tree above with a 150 foot cable .View attachment 600006
> View attachment 600007



Was this before, or after, His Stuff & Thangs?


----------



## PNWfaller509

Skeans said:


> Looks like an old shovel can to me which is common on the east side where the mills aren't as common.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



Pic was taken from the cab of a cat 527


----------



## Skeans

PNWfaller509 said:


> Pic was taken from the cab of a cat 527


They're a nice cat I'm working on a D4h TSK right now we got used in 90.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## PNWfaller509

Skeans said:


> They're a nice cat I'm working on a D4h TSK right now we got used in 90.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



Thanks. I sold the one in the picture and ended up getting two mid 90s d6h to cover more ground.

Got fixed boom units as well. Had alot of issues with the sorting boom on the 527


----------



## bnmc98

Guess I'm confused,
Skeans, were you talking about PNWfaller509's Pic or InfiniteJest's? I was referring to InfiniteJests pic in MT earlier.


----------



## bitzer

bnmc98 said:


> Guess I'm confused,
> Skeans, were you talking about PNWfaller509's Pic or InfiniteJest's? I was referring to InfiniteJests pic in MT earlier.



That sure looks like a yarder set up to me or the like in Montana. Looks like wood being pulled up each setting.


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## bnmc98

That's what I was thinking originally but There might be some confusion as to the pics. I do know that those guys on the coast run towers on some really steep stuff, steeper than we have here. There's not too many guys who run them over here.


----------



## Skeans

bnmc98 said:


> Guess I'm confused,
> Skeans, were you talking about PNWfaller509's Pic or InfiniteJest's? I was referring to InfiniteJests pic in MT earlier.


Confusion on my part sorry

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Trx250r180

hseII said:


> Was this before, or after, His Stuff & Thangs?


I think i have had it a year or 2 now ,finally put a good test to it making it a yarder pull point ,i think Genius has one also we got them on one of the charity threads a while back. The pickup back end was coming off the ground a few times ,may have bent my class 3 hitch .


----------



## Trx250r180

I need some suggestions for an axe for pounding wedges that is a chopping axe also not a splitting one ,my 26 husqvarna does it ,but the head is kind of light for wedges and is coming loose from it ,whats a good one to get ? Be nice if it sticks in the tree like the husky one does to hold it while cutting .It needs to be able to chop also in case i pinch the bar and have to cut it out .


----------



## northmanlogging

Trx250r180 said:


> I need some suggestions for an axe for pounding wedges that is a chopping axe also not a splitting one ,my 26 husqvarna does it ,but the head is kind of light for wedges and is coming loose from it ,whats a good one to get ? Be nice if it sticks in the tree like the husky one does to hold it while cutting .It needs to be able to chop also in case i pinch the bar and have to cut it out .



Council rafting pattern, 4# if you can find one 5's and 3.5's are nore common

The 5# is a wedge smearing beastie they hold a good edge too


----------



## Skeans

Trx250r180 said:


> I need some suggestions for an axe for pounding wedges that is a chopping axe also not a splitting one ,my 26 husqvarna does it ,but the head is kind of light for wedges and is coming loose from it ,whats a good one to get ? Be nice if it sticks in the tree like the husky one does to hold it while cutting .It needs to be able to chop also in case i pinch the bar and have to cut it out .


4 and a 5lbs council work ok, one of my 5's we added a 1/2 plate on the hammering end and a 36" handle for oversize back leaners, my others I cut off at about 20" handle to my personal liking. All the above I can set in a tree in between beating my guts out. 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Trx250r180

This lil husqvarna 26 inch handle guy is what i have been using ,it tips the trees over fine ,but the head is coming off now .I will look up council ,the 3.5 or 4 may be a good size ,I like the oregon wedges ,have grips on one side so don't spit out ,helps if have to stack them .


----------



## Skeans

Trx250r180 said:


> This lil husqvarna 26 inch handle guy is what i have been using ,it tips the trees over fine ,but the head is coming off now .I will look up council ,the 3.5 or 4 may be a good size ,I like the oregon wedges ,have grips on one side so don't spit out ,helps if have to stack them .View attachment 601717


There was some wedges I used to get that had a deal that would keep the wedges aligned well stacking I want to say it was black bear or something.

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## Trx250r180

http://www.baileysonline.com/Forest...xe-4-lbs-with-28-Hickory-Handle-WPX-F4028.axd
http://www.baileysonline.com/Forest...Miner-s-Axe-3-5-lbs-with-26-Handle-35MD26.axd

Any real world difference in council and woodland pro ? They have a 4 lb in woodland pro ,3.5 or 5 lb in council .


----------



## rwoods

Brian, 

If $ is not an object then consider an older axe:

4# https://m.ebay.com/itm/Nic-vintage-...%3A88229bd315e0a88f5953e3d3ffe1dfe6%7Ciid%3A2

5# https://m.ebay.com/itm/Nice-vintage...%3A88229bd315e0a88f5953e3d3ffe1dfe6%7Ciid%3A4 

Ron


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## Trx250r180

rwoods said:


> Brian,
> 
> If $ is not an object then consider an older axe:
> 
> 4# https://m.ebay.com/itm/Nic-vintage-Plumb-4-Lb-rafting-pattern-single-bit-axe-36-handle-/332379561192?hash=item4d635d9ce8:g:Ny0AAOSwJa1ZuuTY&_trkparms=pageci%3Adb7c94fe-9a77-11e7-a3e8-74dbd1800630%7Cparentrq%3A88229bd315e0a88f5953e3d3ffe1dfe6%7Ciid%3A2
> 
> 5# https://m.ebay.com/itm/Nice-vintage-5-Lb-Plumb-rafting-axe-/232487528154?hash=item36215626da:g:CwcAAOSwGcpZeBsx&_trkparms=pageci%3Adb7c94fe-9a77-11e7-a3e8-74dbd1800630%7Cparentrq%3A88229bd315e0a88f5953e3d3ffe1dfe6%7Ciid%3A4
> 
> Ron


I don't mind paying up to a couple hundred on a good tool ,if it does a good job ,i will be peeling bark also with it. Gransfors makes nice ones have not found right type in that brand though


----------



## rwoods

I don't work enough for my opinion to be worth two cents. I gave Treeslayer a 5# Rafting Plumb head a few years ago. He doesn't post here anymore but I believe he is a regular on SH. He should be able to give a real world opinion. Never chopped with mine but it drives wedges well for me.

Ron


----------



## northmanlogging

The fancy smancy "hand" forged gransfors bruks/husqvarna stuff is cool and all...

but a giant press with a lackey rotating the heads through a set of dies is really Drop Forged and not worth the extra $200. 

A good quality machine made axe such as old Craftsmen, Plumb, Council etc will serve you just as well, if not better, and yer not going to cry when you loose it.

of the three listed I think council is the only one still making current production stuff tha'ts worth the $50 or so, and still made in merica. 

Collins, or any of the hardware store stuff is pretty much chinesium junk.

what ever ya do get one with a flat pole for whacking wedges.


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## northmanlogging

Trx250r180 said:


> This lil husqvarna 26 inch handle guy is what i have been using ,it tips the trees over fine ,but the head is coming off now .I will look up council ,the 3.5 or 4 may be a good size ,I like the oregon wedges ,have grips on one side so don't spit out ,helps if have to stack them .View attachment 601717



Other then the pepsi bottle I was trying to figure out how ya got a pic of my crummy?


----------



## Skeans

Trx250r180 said:


> I don't mind paying up to a couple hundred on a good tool ,if it does a good job ,i will be peeling bark also with it. Gransfors makes nice ones have not found right type in that brand though


I'll dig around I bet I have a spare head or two I could send one in a flat rate box.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> The fancy smancy "hand" forged gransfors bruks/husqvarna stuff is cool and all...
> 
> but a giant press with a lackey rotating the heads through a set of dies is really Drop Forged and not worth the extra $200.
> 
> A good quality machine made axe such as old Craftsmen, Plumb, Council etc will serve you just as well, if not better, and yer not going to cry when you loose it.
> 
> of the three listed I think council is the only one still making current production stuff tha'ts worth the $50 or so, and still made in merica.
> 
> Collins, or any of the hardware store stuff is pretty much chinesium junk.
> 
> what ever ya do get one with a flat pole for whacking wedges.


Matt do you know why you can't land jobs? Clean up for one and quit trying to be a logger and a faller they're different if you thing they're the same that's why you're going under I learned this from my dad.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## KiwiBro

?


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## Trx250r180

northmanlogging said:


> Other then the pepsi bottle I was trying to figure out how ya got a pic of my crummy?


That truck is my yarder ,the cable is 150 foot ,the block chain and nearest fir tree above is my tower lol.it gets them up the hill .feel like batman using the cable to walk back up the hills


----------



## northmanlogging

Skeans said:


> Matt do you know why you can't land jobs? Clean up for one and quit trying to be a logger and a faller they're different if you thing they're the same that's why you're going under I learned this from my dad.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



You assume a lot.

I have plenty of work, probably enough to pull the plug on the day job, just not enough in the bank as yet so if something happens I don't go bankrupt over night.

I stopped advertising in January, yet I still get 2-3 calls a week.


----------



## Gologit

Skeans said:


> Matt do you know why you can't land jobs? Clean up for one and quit trying to be a logger and a faller they're different if you thing they're the same that's why you're going under I learned this from my dad.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



Matt does things the way he does because it works for him. There is no other standard.
It's his outfit, he makes it go, and if he's happy with the way things are nobody should suggest that he do anything differently.
Everybody, every outfit, and every job is different. A man defines his goals and works toward them. His methods are, as they should be, of his own choosing.


----------



## InfiniteJest

Trx250r180 said:


> I need some suggestions for an axe for pounding wedges that is a chopping axe also not a splitting one ,my 26 husqvarna does it ,but the head is kind of light for wedges and is coming loose from it ,whats a good one to get ? Be nice if it sticks in the tree like the husky one does to hold it while cutting .It needs to be able to chop also in case i pinch the bar and have to cut it out .



Overnight in a bucket of coolant will tighten that head right up.

Check out the Stihl axes. I'm not sure what it is about them, but they really make a wedge move.....when I have a tired moment......which never happens......


----------



## northmanlogging

fun fun, Thinnings are a pain all the way around, but I still have the most fun in em.


----------



## Trx250r180

Whats the trick to getting the lower face to line up both corners in one shot ? Sometimes i get lucky ,other times i have to clean out the face a little for a nice wedge shape .


----------



## rwoods

Trick photography. Ron


----------



## northmanlogging

Trx250r180 said:


> Whats the trick to getting the lower face to line up both corners in one shot ? Sometimes i get lucky ,other times i have to clean out the face a little for a nice wedge shape .



Practice mostly...

When possible, it works best on taller stumps... but make yer gun cut then point the bar perpendicular to the cut, and angle it down or up what ever, to create the face, use the dogs to pivot around, if you start with the saw level to the gun cut it should line up fairly close.

Other wise its a visualization thing. And copious amounts of practice, a lot like archery without sights.

Another trick that helps for not cutting to far, is to use the sight lines on yer saw, aim for something specific when gunning it, and line it up again for the slope portion.

I still clean out about every 3rd one or so, the important thing is to not chase yer cuts, trust the gun cut, and hopefully stop before you over cut, its better to make multiple cuts in the right direction then to chase yer hold wood away and loose all semblance of accuracy, chunking the face out happens, one of the reasons folks should carry an axe and not some doofy hammer for beating wedges.


----------



## madhatte

I've never seen a vertical snipe like that but I can't see a single reason why it wouldn't be every bit as effective as the usual sloped one and maybe a bit easier. Yet another trick I'll have to remember.


----------



## northmanlogging

madhatte said:


> I've never seen a vertical snipe like that but I can't see a single reason why it wouldn't be every bit as effective as the usual sloped one and maybe a bit easier. Yet another trick I'll have to remember.


Not enough stump left for the sloped version...

easier to cut too.


----------



## madhatte

Heard that! Your commentary is always useful.. Keep it up. Also if you happen to roll through Oly without giving me a chance to buy you a beer, there's gonna be hell to pay. Just sayin'.


----------



## Karewarewa

Hi there Northman, I''m not familiar with some of you folk's terms, I'm guessing your snipe is what I'd call a scarf. Anyhow I hav'nt ever seen a cut like that before, was wondering what was the purpose of cutting a section out of the bottom of your scrarf? cheers


----------



## northmanlogging

Karewarewa said:


> Hi there Northman, I''m not familiar with some of you folk's terms, I'm guessing your snipe is what I'd call a scarf. Anyhow I hav'nt ever seen a cut like that before, was wondering what was the purpose of cutting a section out of the bottom of your scrarf? cheers


To get the butt to sit down and power through the standing timber. 

its a step cut to accommodate a lower stump. normally a simple steeper slope works fine.

Replay it and you can watch it tip off and then just drop like a rock.


----------



## Gologit

Trx250r180 said:


> Whats the trick to getting the lower face to line up both corners in one shot ? Sometimes i get lucky ,other times i have to clean out the face a little for a nice wedge shape .



Practice. All the rest of us hit our mark every time. Perfect matches without fail. Every time.
Wanna buy a bridge?


----------



## Trx250r180

Gologit said:


> Practice. All the rest of us hit our mark every time. Perfect matches without fail. Every time.
> Wanna buy a bridge?


Seems like if i start right below the face to humbolt it it's a crapshoot if the bar walks or not ,if i dog in the corner of my first cut 50 50 chance of hitting the other corner ,not sure if the oregon light bar is helping or hurting me sometimes ,it flexes a bit more then my es light or the cannon.

I am referring to bigger trees 28 or larger where you can not see the other side when cutting .


----------



## northmanlogging

Trx250r180 said:


> Seems like if i start right below the face to humbolt it it's a crapshoot if the bar walks or not ,if i dog in the corner of my first cut 50 50 chance of hitting the other corner ,not sure if the oregon light bar is helping or hurting me sometimes ,it flexes a bit more then my es light or the cannon.
> 
> I am referring to bigger trees 28 or larger where you can not see the other side when cutting .


This is where pulling out and swinging the bar 90 deg to the face then tipping it down comes in handy. Or to shorten yer strokes establish the gun cut leave the saw dogged in and rotate the bar 90 then tip fer the slope cut.... ole reg coates had a video showing this but i cant find it


----------



## Gologit

Trx250r180 said:


> Seems like if i start right below the face to humbolt it it's a crapshoot if the bar walks or not ,if i dog in the corner of my first cut 50 50 chance of hitting the other corner ,not sure if the oregon light bar is helping or hurting me sometimes ,it flexes a bit more then my es light or the cannon.
> 
> I am referring to bigger trees 28 or larger where you can not see the other side when cutting .



When you start your second cut on the face try to use the same angle every time. When you start the second cut dog in just a little...very little... below the corner on the first cut. If you dog in with just enough pressure to hold the saw you'll be better able to correct your angle if need be.
Using the same saw and bar day in and day out helps too.
Don't worry about it too much. A tiny miss or a cleanout happens to everybody. Some of the best fallers I know still screw one up every once in awhile.
Everybody has good days and bad.If you cut all day every day matching your cuts would eventually be less of problem.


----------



## RandyMac

My Cousin Kev left very nice stumps, but couldn't read trees worth a damn.


----------



## rwoods

I'm sticking with trick photography. Ron


----------



## KiwiBro

Specific muscle fibre recruitment in a Zen state reached whilst contemplating the differences between fallers and loggers. Works almost every time.


----------



## GilksTreeFelling

I know I haven't posted often here. Between single dad of a preteen girl and a just turned teen boy don't get a whole lotta free time to post so. My contribution for the day not big at 20" on the front stick that's already cut and 18ish on the rear still standing. Had a property line in the way of the standingtrees natural lean and weight so had to push it 90*ish clock.wise in in the pic to miss the property line. Was an uggly contrary female canine getting it over but it went none the less. But I did get a chance to try out a cool app that measures tree height with my smart phone camera. Found it was accurate within about an inch and a half once it's calibrated so that's a bonus


----------



## madhatte

What is the name of this app, and which OS does it work on?


----------



## GilksTreeFelling

It's called "smart measure" 
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=kr.sira.measure

No sure if it's available on Apple but I have the Android versiom


----------



## madhatte

Thank you, gonna try it and see if it has a place in my tools.


----------



## GilksTreeFelling

So today was a crummy start spent most of the night doing drywall. Then got up at 6 to get the kids ready for school, got my son on the bus and took my daughter in to deal with a "your daughter is being insubordinate" tone from the staff. Got into the woods to deal with this tree.

2 maple grown together, one back weighted severely 9oclock to where I wanted them both to go.
Got through the back cut and started tapping the wedges *I need a heavier axe 1.5lb just ain't cutting it*
The bigger back weighted trunk decided it didn't want to fall where I wanted it too and went it's own way. Probably a few things I could done differently to sort it out I seen where I went wrong but was already half way through the back cut by the time it clued in my mind wasn't focused so I called it a day no point in taking anymore chances when I know I'm not focused enough LO was happy he just wanted then down so he can block them up for firewood he didn't care where they went too as there was no leave trees to worry about.

Enjoy


----------



## Trx250r180

nscoyote said:


> So today was a crummy start spent most of the night doing drywall. Then got up at 6 to get the kids ready for school, got my son on the bus and took my daughter in to deal with a "your daughter is being insubordinate" tone from the staff. Got into the woods to deal with this tree.
> 
> 2 maple grown together, one back weighted severely 9oclock to where I wanted them both to go.
> Got through the back cut and started tapping the wedges *I need a heavier axe 1.5lb just ain't cutting it*
> The bigger back weighted trunk decided it didn't want to fall where I wanted it too and went it's own way. Probably a few things I could done differently to sort it out I seen where I went wrong but was already half way through the back cut by the time it clued in my mind wasn't focused so I called it a day no point in taking anymore chances when I know I'm not focused enough LO was happy he just wanted then down so he can block them up for firewood he didn't care where they went too as there was no leave trees to worry about.
> 
> Enjoy



Have you ever cut the marms up higher above the fork and fall them one at a time to help with direction ?


----------



## chucker

cut them down the growth middle to the point of the bottom of the face cut! then fell them 1 at a time if both are going in different directions...


----------



## GilksTreeFelling

Normally if the fork of the marm is low enough I'll cut them as individuals, but I don't like cutting above chest height so avoid it when I can. 

So I got a call from the land owner on that tree yesterday, apparently the friend that was going to come and cut it up for him for firewood is all of a sudden down with the flu. So he asked if I'd be willing to block it all for him. 
Sure no problem but it's by the hour for me and my helper together @$75/hr.

Not a bad morning 4 hours with a nice breeze keeping us from sweating. Blocked the tree and piled it where the LO can get his truck and splitter too. Probably 3 cord worth of maple. 

Only billed him 3 hours as he made sure we had a cooler full of snacks and soda when we got there that never seemed to run low


----------



## Skeans

nscoyote said:


> So today was a crummy start spent most of the night doing drywall. Then got up at 6 to get the kids ready for school, got my son on the bus and took my daughter in to deal with a "your daughter is being insubordinate" tone from the staff. Got into the woods to deal with this tree.
> 
> 2 maple grown together, one back weighted severely 9oclock to where I wanted them both to go.
> Got through the back cut and started tapping the wedges *I need a heavier axe 1.5lb just ain't cutting it*
> The bigger back weighted trunk decided it didn't want to fall where I wanted it too and went it's own way. Probably a few things I could done differently to sort it out I seen where I went wrong but was already half way through the back cut by the time it clued in my mind wasn't focused so I called it a day no point in taking anymore chances when I know I'm not focused enough LO was happy he just wanted then down so he can block them up for firewood he didn't care where they went too as there was no leave trees to worry about.
> 
> Enjoy


Might try cutting yourself a few steps up next time on a double like that it's not much fun to cut like this but it will get you out of a tight spot like that.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## northmanlogging

slopey cuts...

if ya watch close you can see the wedge stand up. Its a wee bit blurry though.


----------



## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> slopey cuts...
> 
> if ya watch close you can see the wedge stand up. Its a wee bit blurry though.


Just a quick question how do the guys find center on true oversize? I was taught to sight without anything it was to help invention the fall ahead of time.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## northmanlogging

Skeans said:


> Just a quick question how do the guys find center on true oversize? I was taught to sight without anything it was to help invention the fall ahead of time.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



I'm not understanding the question? you mean like big trees where the bar isn't long enough? Cause I just ded reckon it mostly, though I like the sight lines for aiming, deep more then steep.


----------



## bitzer

nscoyote said:


> So today was a crummy start spent most of the night doing drywall. Then got up at 6 to get the kids ready for school, got my son on the bus and took my daughter in to deal with a "your daughter is being insubordinate" tone from the staff. Got into the woods to deal with this tree.
> 
> 2 maple grown together, one back weighted severely 9oclock to where I wanted them both to go.
> Got through the back cut and started tapping the wedges *I need a heavier axe 1.5lb just ain't cutting it*
> The bigger back weighted trunk decided it didn't want to fall where I wanted it too and went it's own way. Probably a few things I could done differently to sort it out I seen where I went wrong but was already half way through the back cut by the time it clued in my mind wasn't focused so I called it a day no point in taking anymore chances when I know I'm not focused enough LO was happy he just wanted then down so he can block them up for firewood he didn't care where they went too as there was no leave trees to worry about.
> 
> Enjoy




Yeah sometimes you just have to cut higher. I've cut as far as I can reach over my head. Not fun but sometimes you have to do it. Much better hold wood there too. And your chain will thank you.


----------



## bitzer

I think he means you can't trust the gun on a big ass tree. Hence the gunning sticks.

Bad back cuts happen northy. Some days it's the chain, some days the bar, and sometimes me.

And what are you doing up so early?? I'm parked in the woods waiting and it's still dark as hell here.


----------



## hseII

Trx250r180 said:


> Seems like if i start right below the face to humbolt it it's a crapshoot if the bar walks or not ,if i dog in the corner of my first cut 50 50 chance of hitting the other corner ,not sure if the oregon light bar is helping or hurting me sometimes ,it flexes a bit more then my es light or the cannon.
> 
> I am referring to bigger trees 28 or larger where you can not see the other side when cutting .



The Oregon Light is not helping.


----------



## Trx250r180

hseII said:


> The Oregon Light is not helping.


Picked up a couple cannon bars from Dave ,much stiffer ,but saw is more nose heavy now, Looks like every setup has a compromise .


----------



## hseII

Trx250r180 said:


> Picked up a couple cannon bars from Dave ,much stiffer ,but saw is more nose heavy now, Looks like every setup has a compromise .



Should have tried one of those before you sent it to me. 

Perfect for a 461.


----------



## Trx250r180

hseII said:


> Should have tried one of those before you sent it to me.
> 
> Perfect for a 461.


I have a stihl light also ,it is stiffer than the oregon ,not as stiff as cannon ,i think Cannon is stiffest i have run ,work the best on the mill for less flex.


----------



## hseII

Trx250r180 said:


> I have a stihl light also ,it is stiffer than the oregon ,not as stiff as cannon ,i think Cannon is stiffest i have run ,work the best on the mill for less flex.



Cannon for the Mill.

Tsumara or Stihl ES Light for the Woods.


----------



## Frank Savage

northmanlogging said:


> slopey cuts...



I´ve taken an advantage of a cut slopey this way several times intentionaly. On trees which have wide and flat crown in plane perpendicular to the desired (read: only possible) fall direction and narrow in the other, while there are keepers around and a tight place to land the tree. The side where there is better chance to make less mess and get more friction up in the crowns is my far side, where the backcut is lower than the gun, to form the step visible in video. Good idea is, to make the far side gun akin boxcut and near side narrow kerf.
I make a sidecut lower than gun on the far side to cut through the young wood, to prevent splinters. The near side of backcut is level, or just a hair higher than the gun. When the tree starts to go, the friction of the crowns make it roll, move to front and down from the stump on the near side, while the far side step holds it there for some time, acting as a pivot. The crown thus turns itself by the narrow side first into the fall, so it grabs and stomps less trees around. Chasing the hinge with the tip of the bar (long enought) is a good thing to do, saves a lot from the butt. One must keep in mind that the butt at times slide to the far side and back, so I wouldn´t dare to make the step on my near side. 
Not OSHA aproved, but here and there under specific circumstances, this can save a lot of headache and prevent the need to use the yellow diesel wedge to bring´er down (and tearing the leave trees while doing so)


----------



## northmanlogging

bitzer said:


> I think he means you can't trust the gun on a big ass tree. Hence the gunning sticks.
> 
> Bad back cuts happen northy. Some days it's the chain, some days the bar, and sometimes me.
> 
> And what are you doing up so early?? I'm parked in the woods waiting and it's still dark as hell here.



Machine shop starts at 5 am, won't see day light again until monday.

Had a good week in the woods 3 loads sent and one ready to go... this day job thing is getting bothersome.


----------



## GilksTreeFelling

So it's to windy and wet to go in the woods today. So while I wait for the mailman to deliver my new helmet from pfanner. Got to looking at this maple that's too close to my bbq that I'm gonna have to deal with this spring.
I'm thinking it's definitely way to much tree for my 372 to handle, I'm guessing I'm gonna have to find something 100cc+ that's at least muffler modded if not a full on port job. I'm hoping my 36" bar is long enough......


Ya I hate when the wind keeps me out of the woods


----------



## Chep

Hi from Vermont
First pic is red pine. Headed for telephone poles. Planted 1923. Should have been bigger but tough ground and not thinned on schedule.

Pic 2. Skidding red pine poles. We are mostly cut to length but have a cat 515 skidder when we need it.

Pic.3 nice red oak

Pic 4
nice white pine


----------



## rwoods

NSC, definitely a danger to the BBQ. I believe I would have a second man with a second saw ready in case you stall in the cut. Ron


----------



## northmanlogging

nscoyote said:


> So it's to windy and wet to go in the woods today. So while I wait for the mailman to deliver my new helmet from pfanner. Got to looking at this maple that's too close to my bbq that I'm gonna have to deal with this spring.
> I'm thinking it's definitely way to much tree for my 372 to handle, I'm guessing I'm gonna have to find something 100cc+ that's at least muffler modded if not a full on port job. I'm hoping my 36" bar is long enough......
> 
> 
> Ya I hate when the wind keeps me out of the woods


You got enough machine to move them logs if and when ya get that beast on the ground?


----------



## GilksTreeFelling

northmanlogging said:


> You got enough machine to move them logs if and when ya get that beast on the ground?


I dunno man I might have to call in one of them west coast machines that are used to big sticks Maybe even a skycrane


----------



## Jacob J.

Trx250r180 said:


> I have a stihl light also ,it is stiffer than the oregon ,not as stiff as cannon ,i think Cannon is stiffest i have run ,work the best on the mill for less flex.


----------



## Skeans

Hoping by the time of the show to have a new harvester in blue with a sp head, this old girl is still running just not liking the steady diet of company work again.






Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Trx250r180

Jacob J. said:


>


That's a cool picture ,you still fighting fires ?


----------



## Jacob J.

Trx250r180 said:


> That's a cool picture ,you still fighting fires ?



No sir, I'm surfing a desk these days. I work as a specialist in contracting and finance. I sure miss felling the trees and hanging out on the big fires though.


----------



## hseII

I Took a few Pines down around my Uncle’s Shop.


----------



## Trx250r180

Hey ,i used to have a 461 just like that one. ,Nice work HEath. What did you do with the logs ?


----------



## hseII

Trx250r180 said:


> Hey ,i used to have a 461 just like that one. ,Nice work HEath. What did you do with the logs ?



You sent me that Saw & Bar. [emoji41]

None of the logs in that picture were Saw Log quality so those went to the WoodYard for Pulp Wood.

Out of the 19 trees taken down, there were only 5 Saw logs: the trees were along a driveway & had cat faces & other issues in almost every tree.





Pictured on the Gradall are 2 of the 5 Saw logs.


----------



## Westboastfaller

Skeans said:


> Just a quick question how do the guys find center on true oversize? I was taught to sight without anything it was to help invention the fall ahead of time.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


*Envision...^^^ I think you are saying..
Always envision the worst.


C ÷ pi ÷2 = r


----------



## customcutter

hseII said:


> You sent me that Saw & Bar. [emoji41]
> 
> None of the logs in that picture were Saw Log quality so those went to the WoodYard for Pulp Wood.
> 
> Out of the 19 trees taken down, there were only 5 Saw logs: the trees were along a driveway & had cat faces & other issues in almost every tree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pictured on the Gradall are 2 of the 5 Saw logs.



OK guys, new to all this, but I'm looking to buy 75-100 acres in Alabama. Recently retired and want to buy a portable sawmill to build a log home and shop and presently live in over taxed Fl.

What is a cat faced log, and why would it not make good lumber or logs for building? Got a lot more questions but I'll start another post for that.

thanks, Ken


----------



## northmanlogging

customcutter said:


> OK guys, new to all this, but I'm looking to buy 75-100 acres in Alabama. Recently retired and want to buy a portable sawmill to build a log home and shop and presently live in over taxed Fl.
> 
> What is a cat faced log, and why would it not make good lumber or logs for building? Got a lot more questions but I'll start another post for that.
> 
> thanks, Ken


A tree that has had the bark rubbed off and then poorly healed over, usually means some amount of rot is hidding, there are other causes but its usually just the bark gets damaged, be it from poor driving poor logging or just storm damage


----------



## customcutter

Thank you sir, much appreciated.


----------



## Skeans

The beginning of a cat face






Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## customcutter

Yep, probably seen 1000's of them in the woods. Just didn't know they had a name. LOL


----------



## Westboastfaller

customcutter said:


> OK guys, new to all this, but I'm looking to buy 75-100 acres in Alabama. Recently retired and want to buy a portable sawmill to build a log home and shop and presently live in over taxed Fl.
> 
> What is a cat faced log, and why would it not make good lumber or logs for building? Got a lot more questions but I'll start another post for that.
> 
> thanks, Ken


 A cat face is a defect. It's a section of the bark and cambium layer missing
Most commonly in the lower trunk
It can be man made purposely or not. Often to gather resin & has and still is being used by North American Natives with the Western Red Cedar for making conoe's. The are referred to in the Canadian west coast as (CMT's)
Cultural Modified tree's . With the help or excavating birbs and animals creating oxygen exchange the heart wood will be affected on many species eventually. The tree will close on the ends if it can and give it that female body part shape or conoe shape. Which makes me think of the Beaver. Animals and disease may be a cause also.


----------



## Westboastfaller

customcutter said:


> Yep, probably seen 1000's of them in the woods. Just didn't know they had a name. LOL


You would see lots in Fl from the resin to make turpentine


----------



## hseII

customcutter said:


> OK guys, new to all this, but I'm looking to buy 75-100 acres in Alabama. Recently retired and want to buy a portable sawmill to build a log home and shop and presently live in over taxed Fl.
> 
> What is a cat faced log, and why would it not make good lumber or logs for building? Got a lot more questions but I'll start another post for that.
> 
> thanks, Ken







This is the bottom of 1 if the Cat Faces: See the hollow middle?

Cat Faces are a sign of damage, & don’t make good Saw logs.


As far as advice,

1. Price a new LT-40 Hydraulic from WoodMizer to get a feel for what a new one cost.

2. Watch Craigslist starting when it gets cold, for a WoodMizer LT-40 Hydraulic. Buy a nice one as soon as you find it. 

3. You’ll need a loader: a mid size Skid Steer is a very handy piece of equipment.
Case 1845C or Bobcat 863 is as good as any. 

4. You’ll need Grapple & Pallet forks.

5. Learn to sharpen your own blades. 

6. Search Solar Kiln. 
http://owic.oregonstate.edu/solarkiln/plans.htm

7. Use your 1st sawn stuff to build a shed to Saw under: you’ll thank me later. Space your Post 25’ apart where you will load your logs.

Info added.


----------



## customcutter

Should have seen the 4-5' diameter oak in my in-laws front yard before they had to take it down. It went up about 8 feet and split. It would make any woman who walked by blush. Including my 84 year on mother in law. LOL!


----------



## customcutter

Laurel Oaks and Red Cedar are famous for that down here


----------



## Trx250r180

customcutter said:


> Laurel Oaks and Red Cedar are famous for that down here


Here too


----------



## customcutter

hseII said:


> As far as advice,
> 
> 1. Price a new LT-40 Hydraulic from WoodMizer to get a feel for what a new one cost.
> 
> 2. Watch Craigslist starting when it gets cold, for a WoodMizer LT-40 Hydraulic. Buy a nice one as soon as you find it.
> 
> 3. You’ll need a loader: a mid size Skid Steer is a very handy piece of equipment.
> Case 1845C or Bobcat 863 is as good as any.
> 
> 4. You’ll need Grapple & Pallet forks.
> 
> 5. Learn to sharpen your own blades.
> 
> 6. Search Solar Kiln.
> http://owic.oregonstate.edu/solarkiln/plans.htm
> 
> 7. Use your 1st sawn stuff to build a shed to Saw under: you’ll thank me later. Space your Post 25’ apart where you will load your logs.
> 
> Info added.



I've been checking CL from Miami to Virginia and some other sites for about 6 weeks haven't seen any bargains. Do they get cheaper in the winter. I know that WM and Cooks both have sales going on right now. I think I actually like the Cooks HD 3238 better than a WM but WM has the reputation. I posted a thread in the milling section on an LT50 I went and looked at this morning. Thanks for the great tips. Maybe the slab needs to be 50x50 with the saw under one side??? It was definetly going under a structure but hadn't thought about the 25' opening. (DOH forehead slap) LOL
thanks, Ken


----------



## hseII

customcutter said:


> I've been checking CL from Miami to Virginia and some other sites for about 6 weeks haven't seen any bargains. Do they get cheaper in the winter. I know that WM and Cooks both have sales going on right now. I think I actually like the Cooks HD 3238 better than a WM but WM has the reputation. I posted a thread in the milling section on an LT50 I went and looked at this morning. Thanks for the great tips. Maybe the slab needs to be 50x50 with the saw under one side??? It was definetly going under a structure but hadn't thought about the 25' opening. (DOH forehead slap) LOL
> thanks, Ken



PM sent.


----------



## northmanlogging

Here abouts its not a cat face, but a cat butt, or cat ass... which if ya think about it, makes more sense


----------



## customcutter

Glad I wasn't drinking anything when I read about the cat's ass.....Got a laugh out of that!


----------



## GilksTreeFelling

Well spent the morning putting down some pecker poles for a lady who wanted to open up her horse trail to give an area to camp rest picnic etc. Most of it I think was Aspen *see attached pic of me holding a dropped leaf on the trunk*
All between 6-8" dia 35-40ft long. Shame that was the spot she wanted cleared out as they would have been some nice trees in about 15 years.
I'll go in tomorrow and drag the logs out and clean it up some.

I dislike small diameter trees. But I got to practice some dove tails which is something I was never good at.

Been putting the pfanner Protos helmet through it's paces the past week or 2 so far I am definitely liking it over the husqvarna helmet I was using.


----------



## GilksTreeFelling

Well spent the morning putting down some pecker poles for a lady who wanted to open up her horse trail to give an area to camp rest picnic etc. Most of it I think was Aspen *see attached pic of me holding a dropped leaf on the trunk*
All between 6-8" dia 35-40ft long. Shame that was the spot she wanted cleared out as they would have been some nice trees in about 15 years.
I'll go in tomorrow and drag the logs out and clean it up some.

I dislike small diameter trees. But I got to practice some dove tails which is something I was never good at.

Been putting the pfanner Protos helmet through it's paces the past week or 2 so far I am definitely liking it over the husqvarna helmet I was using.


----------



## jomoco

Nice pics n technique Coyote!

I love hard head plastic wedges mo better in such situations.

Steel capped.

Jomoco


----------



## GilksTreeFelling

jomoco said:


> Nice pics n technique Coyote!
> 
> I love hard head plastic wedges mo better in such situations.
> 
> Steel capped.
> 
> Jomoco


Unfortunately the steel headed wedges arnt available locally and to order them online atfter price +shipping for just one I can get 4 of the Oregon plastic ones locally lol


----------



## RandyMac




----------



## customcutter

OK, another learning situation. In the group of photos above felling the small aspen. The last picture shows a cut I've never seen. I'm assuming the notch is made first, then the plunge cut in the middle and the wedge driven in, and then the two side cuts made? Is that correct. Purpose is to fell the tree in a certain direction, but diameter of the tree doesn't allow driving the wedge behind the bar like traditionally done, correct? I guess you are extremely careful sneaking up on the "hinge" when making the side cuts?


----------



## GilksTreeFelling

customcutter said:


> OK, another learning situation. In the group of photos above felling the small aspen. The last picture shows a cut I've never seen. I'm assuming the notch is made first, then the plunge cut in the middle and the wedge driven in, and then the two side cuts made? Is that correct. Purpose is to fell the tree in a certain direction, but diameter of the tree doesn't allow driving the wedge behind the bar like traditionally done, correct? I guess you are extremely careful sneaking up on the "hinge" when making the side cuts?


Yes it's called a dovetail, when dealing with trees to small to proper back cut and too large to manhandle over. It allows for wedgeing over without getting your bar pinched. 

You do your face notch, plunge through the center of the notch to the back slip your wedge in the back in the kerf you just made. Then with you bar tip pointed towards the notch come in on each side * don't forget to leave a hinge for control* 

justve where your wedge is about and inch. Make your side cuts so they are a hair beyond where the wedge is but not all the way across the back. When you tap tour wedge in it should lift the tree over leaving a dovetail and your bar won't pinch. 

I think that describes it well. If not I'm sure someone will correct me. 
It's really usefull on the smaller diameter trees. Try it sometime, it's another tool in your falling toolkit


----------



## customcutter

Haven't done much felling and nothing where it was really critical. But definitely noticed the unusual cut so wanted to learn the particulars. You never know when felling a tree is going to be critical. Most of my experience has been clean up after hurricanes and storms and trees already on the ground. I try not to get my bar pinched, sometimes I think I know which way the pressure is coming from, but still wind up having to get another saw. Need to get/find some plastic wedges.


----------



## hseII

customcutter said:


> Haven't done much felling and nothing where it was really critical. But definitely noticed the unusual cut so wanted to learn the particulars. You never know when felling a tree is going to be critical. Most of my experience has been clean up after hurricanes and storms and trees already on the ground. I try not to get my bar pinched, sometimes I think I know which way the pressure is coming from, but still wind up having to get another saw. Need to get/find some plastic wedges.




http://www.madsens1.com/PDF/17catonlne.pdf?


----------



## customcutter

I thought they would be much more than that. I gotta get me a few of those. I really like that jack on page 6. I've got a 20ton air over hydraulic. I can load the 60 gal compressor and 5500watt generator on a small trailer and pull it around behind the 4 wheeler. As long as I can get within 100' of that bad boy I'm golden. I got 100' of air hose. LOL!


----------



## hseII

customcutter said:


> I thought they would be much more than that. I gotta get me a few of those. I really like that jack on page 6. I've got a 20ton air over hydraulic. I can load the 60 gal compressor and 5500watt generator on a small trailer and pull it around behind the 4 wheeler. As long as I can get within 100' of that bad boy I'm golden. I got 100' of air hose. LOL!



Sounds Ideal.

As far as the tongue & Groove felling procedure mentioned above,


----------



## GilksTreeFelling

I get my 5" wedges at at the local hardware store and my 8" and 10" ones at the husqvarna dealership.

I always keep at least 3 of each on me, they have saved my bars many times. Also good when bucking to keep the kerf from closing on the top of the cut when you closer to the bottom of the bucking cut. Also good to throw at your "helper" to get his/her attention from thier cell


----------



## hseII

I Like Dealing With Madsen’s.

I ordered an even dozen 10” K&Hs this evening, along with some more Rifled Wedges.

Those things are the Cat’s Grass for moving a tangled up or minor back leaning tree. 

A Peavy, & Axe Handle, & something else I don’t remember finished my Christmas Shopping.


----------



## Trx250r180

Those little trees i just do the back cut first ,put a wedge in ,then do face cut and pound it over at that point. Theres many ways to do things though.and get the job done.


----------



## Skeans

customcutter said:


> I thought they would be much more than that. I gotta get me a few of those. I really like that jack on page 6. I've got a 20ton air over hydraulic. I can load the 60 gal compressor and 5500watt generator on a small trailer and pull it around behind the 4 wheeler. As long as I can get within 100' of that bad boy I'm golden. I got 100' of air hose. LOL!


Here's my falling jack






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----------



## InfiniteJest




----------



## Skeans

InfiniteJest said:


> View attachment 613078


Looks pretty compared to our liquid sunshine

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## customcutter

Sweet, we're in Alabama, so 45* this morning was better than 65*


----------



## InfiniteJest

Skeans said:


> Looks pretty compared to our liquid sunshine
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



Oh yeah, got more this AM. 
The hookers were making snow angels and singing Xmas carols.


----------



## tramp bushler

Bitzer was the first one I've seen do that. Actually , I learned it from him. I've used it many times since then. I bore all the way thru First. Set a wedge in the back side. Not to tight but snug. Then I put in the face. . Smack the wedge a couple times . Start my back cut and pound the wedge. Being careful not to cut too much.
Wish I had figured out this When I was wedging small trees out of a fish crik.


----------



## tramp bushler

Nice red cedars. Nice and bushy like s.e. AK.


----------



## bitzer

Tramp! You sonofabitch! You're still alive!


----------



## Trx250r180

What do you guys think of this triple hinge thing ? Never heard of it till couple days ago .Must be a east coast type of cut ?


----------



## madhatte

Didn't even need to click on it to know it was gonna be Wade Etienne. He's an interesting character; I'd be interested to see how he'd do out here.


----------



## hseII

Trx250r180 said:


> What do you guys think of this triple hinge thing ? Never heard of it till couple days ago .Must be a east coast type of cut ?




I think he should have moved his face around more to compensate for the lean, as shown in Mr. Dent’s or Jeff Jepson’s falling manuals.


----------



## Trx250r180

madhatte said:


> Didn't even need to click on it to know it was gonna be Wade Etienne. He's an interesting character; I'd be interested to see how he'd do out here.


Try that three hinge on am alder and you would get pretty hurt.


----------



## northmanlogging

Trx250r180 said:


> What do you guys think of this triple hinge thing ? Never heard of it till couple days ago .Must be a east coast type of cut ?




Done this on Cotton woods, coupled with a siswheel, and a some soft dutch, can get a cotton weed to turn a long ways... sometimes...

Alders for the record respond well to a standard siswheel and a soft dutch


----------



## northmanlogging

More of the how to stuff, bit shakey cause... not focusing on the task at hand...


----------



## woodfarmer

A big beech, that’s the 066 with 25” bar sitting down at the far end.


----------



## bitzer




----------



## northmanlogging

whats with the XX?


----------



## madhatte

Well, it's a face, see. Dude is kinda two sheets to the wind, and eating a slice of pie, and happy about it.


----------



## northmanlogging

gawd damnit...


----------



## bitzer

madhatte said:


> Well, it's a face, see. Dude is kinda two sheets to the wind, and eating a slice of pie, and happy about it.


That's right! That's how I looked Thanksgiving afternoon


And for the record as soon as I see logger Wade I roll my eyes. His stuff is really just a bunch of hocus pocus nonsense.


----------



## northmanlogging

Heres some Hocus pocus fer ya

Had to slip one in there


----------



## Chep

Bitzer. What's up? Had to follow you here from the FF. Have you tried a triple hinge? It works. It can rip a tree around like its hooked to cable. Try it. 
Logger wade is a lotta noise but he is a good chopper. His best vids are just him cutting no words. 
These are a couple gems of late. Sometimes I'm certain foresters are trying to kill us...
The pine had the 2 uphill leads welded together otherwise I wouldn't have tried it.


----------



## KiwiBro

northmanlogging said:


> Heres some Hocus pocus fer ya
> 
> Had to slip one in there



Tree down, saw fine, save tree fine. 
They say if we ain't living life on the edge, we are taking up too much room.


----------



## northmanlogging

Chep said:


> Bitzer. What's up? Had to follow you here from the FF. Have you tried a triple hinge? It works. It can rip a tree around like its hooked to cable. Try it.
> Logger wade is a lotta noise but he is a good chopper. His best vids are just him cutting no words.
> These are a couple gems of late. Sometimes I'm certain foresters are trying to kill us...
> The pine had the 2 uphill leads welded together otherwise I wouldn't have tried it.View attachment 617250
> View attachment 617251
> View attachment 617252
> View attachment 617253
> View attachment 617254
> View attachment 617250
> View attachment 617250
> View attachment 617251
> View attachment 617252
> View attachment 617253
> View attachment 617254



Youtube siswheel or sizwheel, same effect but easier and lesd "hocus pocus"


----------



## bitzer

Chep- I hope I showed you something useful over there. Nice work on the pine. I probably would have cut the uphill separate from the one on the right but you got er. I cut marms separate as much as possible. 

As far as Wade's triple hinge if I need to pull something that hard I just tear the side of the stump out. As long as you have your face set up right it will still clean up and not pull fibers from the butt. Here's a red oak that was hard leaning over this driveway. I had more, better pics somewhere. I get that this one is rotten. But I've done this on clean wood and they clean up well.


----------



## KiwiBro

northmanlogging said:


> Youtube siswheel or sizwheel, same effect but easier and lesd "hocus pocus"


We've got some rather brittle fibre gums here where I can't seem to get much benefit with a sizwheel. It'd have to be a tall, like 8 " or more siz/pocket in front of the hinge to have any chance the hinge would hold on rather than break. I was thinking the triple hinge might allow the weight to start shifting a bit earlier/easier and stop the hinge wood from breaking too early in the swing.
But it's just theory in my head which often has no grounding in reality by the time I'm actually there doing it.

It's clear from logger Wade's cutting vidjas that his din din afford him the luxury of dropping the trees exactly where they wanted to go, most of the time. He can clean 'em up and set them in better orientations for the skidders once they are on the ground.


----------



## bitzer

Well I watched the Wade video. The tree didn't swing much if it all. I've split stumps apart like that in the compression side many times and good solid wood too. To hear him say that he's hardly ever seen that tells me he's new to swinging hard leaning trees. I will agree with him that it being a white oak it will hold more but there are other species that hold just as well. That low side needs to get cut off completely in order to get the thing moving and to maintain as much holding wood as possible on the pull side. The wood broke when the face closed. What do you do to prolong that? Throw a snipe on the stump and it will keep it all moving. Set up properly I've pulled some serious hard leaning timber around with little shenanigans. Here's an ash from years ago. You can see the lean of the tree from the curve in the stem. Pulled it about 90 degrees which was damn good I thought considering the little wood I had. Pulled the roots out for several feet. I put a wedge in on the low side so I could get everything cut off. Humboldt and snipe in the face.


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## bitzer

KiwiBro said:


> We've got some rather brittle fibre gums here where I can't seem to get much benefit with a sizwheel. It'd have to be a tall, like 8 " or more siz/pocket in front of the hinge to have any chance the hinge would hold on rather than break. I was thinking the triple hinge might allow the weight to start shifting a bit earlier/easier and stop the hinge wood from breaking too early in the swing.
> But it's just theory in my head which often has no grounding in reality by the time I'm actually there doing it.
> 
> It's clear from logger Wade's cutting vidjas that his din din afford him the luxury of dropping the trees exactly where they wanted to go, most of the time. He can clean 'em up and set them in better orientations for the skidders once they are on the ground.



What you can try is a soft dutchman with the siswheel. It will allow the tree to move without putting extra strain on the hold wood. The only problem is you need the room. The tree will set out several feet and any brushing of limbs nearby will stop the movement. Otherwise. Use a wide open face and a snipe. Make sure you get half of your hinge dutched off. Then work from your Dutchman side straight across to your pull side. You kind of leave a long stripe of pull wood from the front of your hinge to the back of the tree. This uses more of the sap wood to help pull the tree. Typically the sap wood has more flex and holds better.


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## northmanlogging

KiwiBro said:


> We've got some rather brittle fibre gums here where I can't seem to get much benefit with a sizwheel. It'd have to be a tall, like 8 " or more siz/pocket in front of the hinge to have any chance the hinge would hold on rather than break. I was thinking the triple hinge might allow the weight to start shifting a bit earlier/easier and stop the hinge wood from breaking too early in the swing.
> But it's just theory in my head which often has no grounding in reality by the time I'm actually there doing it.
> 
> It's clear from logger Wade's cutting vidjas that his din din afford him the luxury of dropping the trees exactly where they wanted to go, most of the time. He can clean 'em up and set them in better orientations for the skidders once they are on the ground.



couple a siswheel with the "triple" hinge, I've done this a fair bit on Cotton weeds out here, which are simply the shittiest wood ever, its not a 100% guarantee, but it does seem to make a difference. 

Fatter the siz pocket the more you maximize the hold wood, adding that extra slice in the hold wood does allow brittle wood to flex more, but you have to be careful because it can add more variables, especially with poor execution.

Biggest thing about a siswheel is to keep the hinge wood smooth, no gouges from intersecting cuts, and try if you can to connect it to a root swell. The gouges will always be where it breaks off early if it breaks early.

Be aware, that if you are standing on said root swell... it may take you for a ride, usually not like real far, but it is disconcerting when the ground starts shifting below your feets.


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## KiwiBro

Thanks for suggestions. Will get the chance to try them in stand of 2-3' DBH gums this Summer and shall report back.


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## northmanlogging

Doing dumb stuff, stoopidder

Have I mentioned how much I don't like pushing trees...


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## KiwiBro

Mucho pucker factor. And your reward for getting them on the ground without killing yourself is cleaning up the tangled mess. And having done that the land owner comes along and openly wonders WTF you have been doing for the last few hours to have only produced a few logs.


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## northmanlogging

The ole Essavator make clean up a little nicer,

Swipe the majority of the limbs away, then just come through bump the knots and buck to length, should have er cleaned up in about an hour come monday. Already did the essavator bit, but runned out of daylight

Machine is just big enough to pick each stick up and position them so I don't have to dig through anything.

Normally though, with just a skidder this would be an ass ache and a half


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## hseII

northmanlogging said:


> Doing dumb stuff, stoopidder
> 
> Have I mentioned how much I don't like pushing trees...




You Moved pretty fast there Northy. 

Trees on the ground where you wanted them: Good Job.

I like how you used the front tree as a safety stop.


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## KiwiBro

Forgot you had a digger. I've noticed much of your ground is pretty flat. Is that typical for the area or you just get lucky?


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## Skeans

KiwiBro said:


> Forgot you had a digger. I've noticed much of your ground is pretty flat. Is that typical for the area or you just get lucky?


50/50 split I'm a few hours south of Northman it's a good reason to have a cutting partner or learning to say to have someone else come in yes you lose money but it's not your neck or family on the line.

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## KiwiBro

If he'd have flattened himself at least he made it easy for the workplace safety investigators to reconstruct what happened. They just had to play the video. Northy could have gone viral post-humerously. Every forestry training coarse would play his video.


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## northmanlogging

KiwiBro said:


> Forgot you had a digger. I've noticed much of your ground is pretty flat. Is that typical for the area or you just get lucky?


Most of my work is on the valley floors, or on the islands. It gets steep out here though, This is where the Yarder was more or less invented, Skagit Steel of Skagit yarder fame is about 10 mi from where I'm currently cutting, Madill is 80 mi north. 

I very occasionally bid on steeper stuff, but I'm really not set up for it, short pulls I can do, anything more then say 100' is just goofy with a skidder. I've cut on a bit, but its rare. 

Of the entire state of WA say 1/3 is timber (maybe 1/2?) and 75% of that is DNR or Forest Service/wilderness ground, the rest is either private, or private industrial. Of that ground, the private stuff, average homeowner type stuff is maybe 5%. Couple that with pretty much every piece of ground out side the valley floors is either wilderness, Forest service or DNR ground.

For a County the size of Delaware the habitable ground is only about 10%, and most of that is city. And folks don't believe in Sasquatch... oh and we got 3 volcanoes dormant or maybe active within 70 miles of home...


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## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> Most of my work is on the valley floors, or on the islands. It gets steep out here though, This is where the Yarder was more or less invented, Skagit Steel of Skagit yarder fame is about 10 mi from where I'm currently cutting, Madill is 80 mi north.
> 
> I very occasionally bid on steeper stuff, but I'm really not set up for it, short pulls I can do, anything more then say 100' is just goofy with a skidder. I've cut on a bit, but its rare.
> 
> Of the entire state of WA say 1/3 is timber (maybe 1/2?) and 75% of that is DNR or Forest Service/wilderness ground, the rest is either private, or private industrial. Of that ground, the private stuff, average homeowner type stuff is maybe 5%. Couple that with pretty much every piece of ground out side the valley floors is either wilderness, Forest service or DNR ground.
> 
> For a County the size of Delaware the habitable ground is only about 10%, and most of that is city. And folks don't believe in Sasquatch... oh and we got 3 volcanoes dormant or maybe active within 70 miles of home...


Looks like Mt Hood maybe active again did you see that last night?

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## northmanlogging

Say wut?!

No man I don't get no news out here in the sticks... I'll have to look into that.

Luckily Mt Hood is a long long ways away from home.

Glacier Peak is in the back yard, Mt Baker to the north, and Rainier to the south, then Adams, St Helens, Mt Hood, Shasta etc...


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## woodfarmer

The hole to shoot for, the ash with the trusty 2171, the stump and the split butt. I don't really know what caused it to split.


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## RandyMac

not enough undercut.


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## woodfarmer

So you think I should have gone more than a 1/3 of the diameter with my notch?
I thought might back cut might have been too high.


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## northmanlogging

Back cut is a little tall, but not painfully so.

A deeper face is always a win. Just don't over do it.

1/3 I would consider a good starting point, up to halfway being a good stopping point, say 40%? But like all things take that with a grain of salt, cause for heavy leaners, you wan't to fudge a little to the shallow side, especially if you plan on boring it.

Really in the end it looks like just too much hold wood, either you bailed early or it left quicker then you would have liked.


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## KiwiBro

It was one of those days for logger Wade recently. Makes me feel a little better about the ones that got away on me.


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## woodfarmer

I back cut and drove the wedge, maybe a bit too early. I don’t do too much boring, these trees are around or under 24
“ so there’s not much room to bore and set a wedge


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## Gologit

Did you fall any more trees that day that you can show us a picture of? Or was that one tree your whole day's work?


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## rwoods

NM, you are old enough to know that Santa has vast intel resources. Did you really think you could get away with this?



Local paper today.

MERRY CHRISTMAS to all!

Ron


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## northmanlogging

Wut... i look young fer my age?


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## rwoods

The beard betrays you. 

Now that I think about it, if you were behind this child’s request it would have been for a self-loader.

Ron


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## Frank Savage

> So you think I should have gone more than a 1/3 of the diameter with my notch?
> I thought might back cut might have been too high.



It is hardwood, obviously some with high yield and tensile strenght (oak, maybe hickory? I´m not all that familiar with american species). So having the face width of 3/4 stem dia if possible or even a bit more is a good thing, if it´s not a leaner or some nasty thing. Having a high backcut step is to be avoided in such conditions, but this seems still on top of the OK side to me.
The main trouble I would say, was the secondary stem/rootswell. Had it been cut 2" more into the trunk, there was no loss on accounted butt dia and the face was covering that, even as it was cut. The piece of wood of the rootswell which was barely touched with the face as well as by the backcut (like 2"x2,5"?), can take a lot of beating and makes for a helluva forces, as the tree goes down. 
Then the freezing temp, couple that with the fact that heartwood (esp. on closed pore species) has significantly less humidity content compared to young wood and sapwood-you end up with kind of a "brittle icy shell" around the core. 
While in the summer, the sapwood takes a lot of bend and the heartwood is brittle in comparison, in the winter the situation is frequently opposite with some species: the heartwood acts almost the same, but the (in comparison) more water-saturated, frozen sapwood is way more brittle because of ice formed in the cells. But still pretty strong, so it provides you with the mess you´ve encountered.
As far as my personal experience goes, falling frozen hardwoods usualy calls for chasing the hinge hard once it starts to move, using as high % width of the face as possible. If there was a significant temp drop 1-3 days before, the forces in the sapwood are quite significant and this behavior can be thus realy pronounced and I don´t go without significant side cuts (sapcuts) just below the face over hinge area.

Just my biased 0,01


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## Bwildered

woodfarmer said:


> View attachment 619076
> View attachment 619072
> View attachment 619070
> View attachment 619064
> The hole to shoot for, the ash with the trusty 2171, the stump and the split butt. I don't really know what caused it to split.


The scarf/belly cut was too shallow, once it closed up the hinge was still holding it too well & you have the starting a of a barber chair
Thanski


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## Frank Savage

KiwiBro said:


> It was one of those days for logger Wade recently. Makes me feel a little better about the ones that got away on me.



Wow. Don´t know about the angles, but the hinge was realy on the thick side, but more importantly, the jack seems to be of the 10 or at best 15 tons breed. The tree might weigt some 3 or 4 tons, having the centre of gravity some 3, maybe 4 feet behind the hinge (the wide angle lens don´t tell the real truth, I know). But this bet does not seem to be way off. And with like 8" from the jack to the hinge, you do the math, plus add for the stiffness of the hinge. It seems like some 13 to 24 tons of static load, plus the hinge stiffness was loaded there. No way the little jack could survive.
It is easy then to understand why real tree jacks are for 60 or 100 tons...


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## woodfarmer

Gologit, that was my weekends work, is that bad?

It’s been -20* C or -4 Fred for a few days, I think looking at it again today, I should have cut the root swell off in front of my notch like I did on the side.
This is the start of my removal of the Ash from my bush. I wasn’t too upset, they’re certainly not veneer quality. Not sure if they will even make saw logs.


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## Jhenderson

Skeans said:


> Looks like Mt Hood maybe active again did you see that last night?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk





woodfarmer said:


> So you think I should have gone more than a 1/3 of the diameter with my notch?
> I thought might back cut might have been too high.



G.O.L. teaches 2/3 the dia for a face cut. Also it didn't appear as though the face was open enough to allow the tree to hit the ground before it closed. The high back cut didn't split the butt. The closed face did.


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## northmanlogging

GOL can kick rocks


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## Jhenderson

Very enlightening response.


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## northmanlogging

yeah well there are no hard and fast rules to falling timber, GOL teaches hard and fast rules, 1/3 deep on the face 10% on the hold wood, plunge cut every tree.

them rules will get a tree down, but it won't save out the wood, sometimes you have to manipulate the hold wood, sometimes you have to stick with the tree and steer it down, or cut more of the hold wood so it don't pull massive amounts of fiber and ruin the first log. In truth a deeper face cut saves a whole bunch of work when you have to wedge it over, getting you out of the danger zone quicker, and putting less stress on the hold wood, meaning you can get away with less hold wood. 

GOL teaches situational awareness, which is good, but it teaches and sets in stone one way to fall a tree, and that is just wrong.

But then I've never been one for choreographed dancing, so the Swedish Stump Dance isn't something you'll see me do very often.


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## Jhenderson

I agree, no hard rules. I use what fits the situation. I was using them as an example for hinge width. Do you disagree on that as a general rule of thumb? And they don't say plunge cut every tree. They give the option at your discression on many. Only plunge and leave a back strap on those which won't be wedged. That gives you more escape time than chasing the holding wood. Every time.


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## northmanlogging

10% of a 32" doug fir would be just about 3", when in reality you only need or wan't about an inch or an inch and a half

Same thing on a Big Leaf Maple, would need no more then an inch or the damn thing will likely chair

Leave 10% an an alder that is 24" it will for sure chair

GOL claims its a starting point, but in my short time on this rock, I've found most folks only hear the one thing some "expert" tells them and just swallow it as their god's truth, couple this with anyone wearing a suit and tie and they will believe the earth is flat and pigs fly... 

Anyway point is, its a noob falling method, that should be used only when needed, rather then being relied upon.


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## Gologit

woodfarmer said:


> Gologit, that was my weekends work, is that bad?



No, that's fine. I just thought that since this is a _logging_ thread you might have dropped ten or fifteen more that you didn't show.


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## flying pig

Well, we're making a go of it. My buddy and I bought an old circular mill and we're going to see how we do. We set up on my dad's quarter which is 60% mature poplar so we are going to cut and mill it to start. Dad said if we didn't cut it he was just going to clear and burn it so we may as well log and mill it. Anyway, just thought I'd drop in and say hi and that I'm still looking forward to picking up what I can from each of you guys' posts. Every little bit helps keep us new guys safe, so thanks for the info!


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## Gologit

GOL has it's place. GOL works great for somebody without any real experience. It's designed for the weekend warrior or firewood hack that doesn't spend enough time on the saw to get really comfortable with it.

The bad thing about GOL is that it gives the user a false sense of security. It tells you "if you do this, the tree will do that" and the guy on the saw quits thinking for himself and blindly follows the dogma. Trouble is, the trees didn't take the course. They'll surprise you and every one of them is different.

GOL has never really had any following among loggers, especially on the west coast. Professionals, guys who make their living with a saw, learn how to think for themselves.


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## Skeans

Gologit said:


> GOL has it's place. GOL works great for somebody without any real experience. It's designed for the weekend warrior or firewood hack that doesn't spend enough time on the saw to get really comfortable with it.
> 
> The bad thing about GOL is that it gives the user a false sense of security. It tells you "if you do this, the tree will do that" and the guy on the saw quits thinking for himself and blindly follows the dogma. Trouble is, the trees didn't take the course. They'll surprise you and every one of them is different.
> 
> GOL has never really had any following among loggers, especially on the west coast. Professionals, guys who make their living with a saw, learn how to think for themselves.


PNW training the school of hard knocks beating wedges for an old timer then limbing for him thought that was the Game Of Logging.

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## Gologit

Skeans said:


> PNW training the school of hard knocks beating wedges for an old timer then limbing for him thought that was the Game Of Logging.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



Yup, that's usually the way it works. I'm not knocking formal education and safety training certainly has it's place but there's no substitute for being taught by an old timer.
Start out packing and beating wedges, gassing and then maybe a little limbing and then probably a lot of limbing and maybe, if you really had it together, you'd get to do some bucking the first year. Second year you'd buck and, under a watchful eye, start falling some of the easier stuff. After that, if you stuck with it and didn't get canned, there was a natural progression to the bigger timber and rougher ground. But always under that eye, at least for the first couple of years.


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## madhatte

Even a knuckledragging forester like me knows that no two trees are the same, so how could a one-size-fits-all approach to cutting them possibly work? GOL cutting is a trick in the bag for sure, but if it's the only one you've got, you're gonna get in over your head right quick.


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## Frank Savage

GOL gives a guideline how to get an "typical, easy average" (regarding height, weight, spread, crown form, lean, slope, soil conditions, temperature...) tree down, usualy the hard and sometimes kinda exhausting way into usualy the easiest direction-but with a bonus of that even someone who knows *rap about wood, its mechanical properties etc. can walk away, or has time to haul his ass out or at least is not directly in the way of the mess as it propagates. GOL was meant as an entry level survival kit for the easy tasks to learn from. But some people, esp. desk rats who have never been with saw on sloped ground, consider it "the only safe practice", because they don´t know a s*it about some of the troubles of real logging, or they make good money on it under the safest and easiest conditions availible.

How GOL and reality in all its width availible comes together can be easily ilustrated on snaging. Snaging-considered (and for a good reason) as the most dangerous falling task. Take a bit leaning oak snag some 50´ in height, perfectly sound and solid, with knotless butt, just the bark peeled off and dry as desert sand. Try the 1/3+1/10 rule with plunging and strap-almost sure the thing won´t even budge. Try to help ´er with wedges-and when it´s freezing, there are chances the barberchair will snap your head off with no warning at all.
This is why GOL emphasizes heavily that snag=hazardous tree=experienced faller job.

I grew up snaging with handsaw-for wood for my projects, for firewood. I taught myself using chainsaw snaging for firewood. Had a GOL instructor seen some things I´ve done, he would´ve tried to stomp me into ground, because every move I did was against GOL. And I swear, had someone try to make me use GOL on some of those trees, he wouldn´t have survived that-because of me wanting to live another day. Pushing GOL as the only possible way and as a "one fits all standard" is kind of equivalent to murder atempt in my books.
BTW, this site and threads like this was real eye opener and I owe at least a beer to most of the contributors. I do not regret any single minute I put into reading all those 460 or so pages back, several years ago.

Northmanlogging is damn spot on. The ash woodfarmer showed with almost barberchaired buttlog is like 16-18". Now imagine the plank GOL considers a safe hinge here-like 10"x2" piece of wood. Or the 32" fir northman mentioned, like 18"x3". Pretty beefy piece of wood, huh? Now try to bend this, but not over some 6´lenght as if using it as a service ramp for your truck, but at kerf width. Or, if you saw off the heartwood in the fir, it makes for spot bending two about 5"x3" posts (most house framing is done with 2"x4"...). Seems absurd? But that is what GOL teaches.
Experienced faller sets the hinge width after asesment of "how thick a plank will support the weight of the tree" and "how thick a plank will bend and shear by the weight of the tree, while standing the abuse of branch contacts and swing forces during fall, without tearing and messing the butt".
I find myself computing with yield and tensile strenghts of the wood under the saw very frequently, with some experience-earned coefficients for soil, season, fungus/rot damage... This needs a helluva lots of falling done, or some combined carpentry and scientific lab background to get an idea about how the wood behaves under different loads and scenarios.


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## chucker

Jhenderson said:


> G.O.L. teaches 2/3 the dia for a face cut. Also it didn't appear as though the face was open enough to allow the tree to hit the ground before it closed. The high back cut didn't split the butt. The closed face did.


best explained and most common mistake for a chair here yet! when I have pie, I like a huge piece. not over half that's for sure! heavy learners, frost crack/wind damaged timber are a different animal...


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## Skeans

My bet is if I had done these heavy leaning alders to GOL specs they would of launched me and my saw into a low orbit.






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## Skeans

A couple of shots from work yesterday morning then the rest from Vegas on the honeymoon and last our guest log.


























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## chucker

Skeans said:


> A couple of shots from work yesterday morning then the rest from Vegas on the honeymoon and last our guest log.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


 !!CONGRATS!! to you and the better half randy.. best to both on your life long journey together!!


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## Jhenderson

northmanlogging said:


> 10% of a 32" doug fir would be just about 3", when in reality you only need or wan't about an inch or an inch and a half
> 
> Same thing on a Big Leaf Maple, would need no more then an inch or the damn thing will likely chair
> 
> Leave 10% an an alder that is 24" it will for sure chair
> 
> GOL claims its a starting point, but in my short time on this rock, I've found most folks only hear the one thing some "expert" tells them and just swallow it as their god's truth, couple this with anyone wearing a suit and tie and they will believe the earth is flat and pigs fly...
> 
> Anyway point is, its a noob falling method, that should be used only when needed, rather then being relied upon.



You make a lot of declarative statements about GOL. Ever take a course? I've taken all 4 levels. 10% hinge? Never heard of it. I'll wager your opinions aren't formed by first hand knowledge.


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## Gologit

Jhenderson said:


> You make a lot of declarative statements about GOL. Ever take a course? I've taken all 4 levels. 10% hinge? Never heard of it. I'll wager your opinions aren't formed by first hand knowledge.



First hand knowledge? Of what, GOL? You'd be right there. I doubt he's taken the course.

NM has quite a bit of first hand knowledge in falling though. Quite a bit.
If I needed some falling done, especially tall stuff on short ground, without tearing up the leave trees and the two of you applied for the job I'd pick NM.
He hasn't read the book but the trees don't read it either.

Everyone here has said the same thing...GOL has it's place. A good faller, an experienced faller, knows when to use the tricks in his bag. A weekend warrior wannabe has to stick to the dogma of GOL. He probably makes mistakes and has close calls he doesn't even recognize. That's scary.


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## flying pig

Like a good buddy of mine always says: just because you have a drivers' license doesn't mean you can drive. I've seen lots of 'ticketed' mechanics who can't tie their own shoe laces either. You can read the book all you want but if you don't understand it and have the ability to interpret and apply what you've learned to your own situation, and recognize where something else will work better in your given situation then you aren't any good no matter how many courses you've taken.


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## northmanlogging

Well, there are these things called videos, perhaps you've heard of them?

I admittedly have not taken the course, but watched some of the videos and somehow managed to not vomit, I did laugh out loud though.

The point I and every other professional cutter is trying to make here, if you would choke down your pride and stubbornness and read the entire posts. GOL has its place, plunge cutting has its place, buy GOL whether on purpose or not teaches hard and fast rules, those hard and fast rules, be they misheard, misunderstood, or mistaken is what the mojority of folks that use GOL seem to know, and swear by. So from the outside looking in, GOL don't work.

Put it this way, some guys walk around thinking they are hot ****, best of the best at whatever, never noticing that the rest of the crew has to pick up all their messes and broken pieces. Then those same guys are called assholes, arrogant, idiots, fools etc by the rest of the crew... and they can't figure out why, they are the best of the best right?

We don't get to describe what we are, others do that for us, if they think we are assholes, then we are assholes... GOL from the point of view of the guy that has had to clean up way more messes from GOL home gamers then i care to think about, is that ******* that all of us have had to work with in the past.


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## Gologit

northmanlogging said:


> The point I and every other professional cutter is trying to make here, if you would choke down your pride and stubbornness and read the entire posts. GOL has its place, plunge cutting has its place, buy GOL whether on purpose or not teaches hard and fast rules, those hard and fast rules, be they misheard, misunderstood, or mistaken is what the mojority of folks that use GOL seem to know, and swear by. So from the outside looking in, GOL don't work.
> 
> Put it this way, some guys walk around thinking they are hot ****, best of the best at whatever, never noticing that the rest of the crew has to pick up all their messes and broken pieces. Then those same guys are called assholes, arrogant, idiots, fools etc by the rest of the crew... and they can't figure out why, they are the best of the best right?



A few years back I was cutting on a fire. I had to open up a couple of old roads into water holes for the water trucks.
There was a thinning crew camped nearby that was shut down because of the fire. They were a private outfit from back East somewhere.I asked the boss if he had a couple of guys I could borrow to help me cut the road open. Easy work, flat ground, no fire danger, but the tankers were coming in the next morning and we needed to hustle a little.
He gave me two guys that he said were the best he had..."They've both had the whole GOL course". At that time I knew nothing about GOL. I found out pretty quick though.
Those two guys were the worst I'd ever seen. They knew one way to cut, open face with a bore back cut. I had a Cat to push the trees off the road but I told them it would speed things up if they could drop as many as they could clear of the ROW. It was all second growth piss fir and mostly small.
They were slow. I could excuse that if they were accurate but they weren't. I've never seen such a jack-strawed mess. The Cat skinner was good and that made things a little better.
I tried to show them a little about directional falling and loaned them some wedges 'cause they didn't have any. They'd never used wedges. They argued with me about directional falling. They thought kerf dutchmen and tapered hinges were too dangerous to even consider. They spent most of their time hung up, cutting each other out of hangups, broke down, or just kind of standing there staring at the trees.
At noon I hauled them back to their camp and their boss and I had a word or two. He still claimed that those two guys were the best he had.
I borrowed a couple of convicts from another crew...you could do such things in those days if nobody said anything...and finished the job. The convicts did just fine. They'd had OTJ from their peers and they were tuned in on how to cut.
That night the thinning crew boss asked if I needed any help the next day. I told him no. Thanks, but no. I'd seen all of the GOL techniques I could stand for one day.


----------



## madhatte

Jhenderson said:


> You make a lot of declarative statements about GOL. Ever take a course? I've taken all 4 levels. 10% hinge? Never heard of it. I'll wager your opinions aren't formed by first hand knowledge.



TO RE-ITERATE:



Gologit said:


> Everyone here has said the same thing...GOL has it's place.





northmanlogging said:


> GOL has its place, plunge cutting has its place



We all get that plunge-and-trip is a method that works. We all use it, as appropriate. We also know and use other methods, which are also used as appropriate. GOL is not a one-size-fits-all treatment of trees. It's nothing but hubris to claim otherwise.


----------



## sw oh logger

Jhenderson said:


> You make a lot of declarative statements about GOL. Ever take a course? I've taken all 4 levels. 10% hinge? Never heard of it. I'll wager your opinions aren't formed by first hand knowledge.


Why do we have to start making a big deal out of this GOL debate AGAIN? There are many ways to cut timber safely, efficiently, and productively--it often depends on what part of the country you live in, the terrain, the particular tree, and its problems, and even the weather conditions or your level of expertise. GOL was meant to be a tool to teach control, leverage, and safety along with being productive. It is particularly helpful to new cutters--when I took the only 3 levels offered at the time {20 + yrs. ago} I had already been cutting for close to 20 yrs. It was required to become an Ohio Certified Master Logger, I did it, no big deal, didn't hurt me, probably helped keep me aware of many things. Why fight about this--I wouldn't think of trying to tell Northman how cut his 150' Doug Fir, and I haven't heard him telling me how to cut a $5,000 veneer Walnut. We all have different skills as long as we get home safely, make a living, and take decent care of the resource.


----------



## northmanlogging

You guys like to cut in the dirt on them walnut sticks... 

I know they are worth money but my guts clench when I have to start digging the roots out by hand... I like tall stumps.

GOL thing is a dead horse, soon we'll be onto a wedge thread again...


----------



## Gologit

...or an oil thread.


----------



## Gologit

sw oh logger said:


> Why do we have to start making a big deal out of this GOL debate AGAIN? There are many ways to cut timber safely, efficiently, and productively--it often depends on what part of the country you live in, the terrain, the particular tree, and its problems, and even the weather conditions or your level of expertise. GOL was meant to be a tool to teach control, leverage, and safety along with being productive. It is particularly helpful to new cutters--when I took the only 3 levels offered at the time {20 + yrs. ago} I had already been cutting for close to 20 yrs. It was required to become an Ohio Certified Master Logger, I did it, no big deal, didn't hurt me, probably helped keep me aware of many things. Why fight about this--I wouldn't think of trying to tell Northman how cut his 150' Doug Fir, and I haven't heard him telling me how to cut a $5,000 veneer Walnut. We all have different skills as long as we get home safely, make a living, and take decent care of the resource.



You're right, the GOL debate gets old. But it never seems to die off completely. Nor should it.
I've never cut trees anywhere east of the Sierra Nevadas and I wouldn't begin to tell you, or Bitzer, or any of the other hardwood guys how to do their job. If I came back there to cut I'd probably have to learn some new things and adapt to your methods.
But...if you're in _our_ part of the country, falling the trees we do, you'd better be able to adapt to _our_ way of doing things. 
Those kids from the thinning crew weren't bad guys, they were just bad cutters...and they showed no willingness or ability to change. They'd quote that GOL stuff and whine when the trees didn't do what their GOL training said they'd do. Under different circumstances and with more time I might have been able to help them learn if they'd wanted to.


----------



## sw oh logger

northmanlogging said:


> You guys like to cut in the dirt on them walnut sticks...
> 
> I know they are worth money but my guts clench when I have to start digging the roots out by hand... I like tall stumps.
> 
> GOL thing is a dead horse, soon we'll be onto a wedge thread again...


LOL That USED to be done, not much anymore that I'm aware of! My brother and I dug one out for a guy over 30 yrs. ago-- seems like I was running an 056 Super with a 24" bar --basically used up a good chain! Seriously, we cut LOW on good Walnut but don't dig them out!!


----------



## Frank Savage

northmanlogging said:


> You guys like to cut in the dirt on them walnut sticks...
> 
> I know they are worth money but my guts clench when I have to start digging the roots out by hand... I like tall stumps.
> 
> GOL thing is a dead horse, soon we'll be onto a wedge thread again...



I was not on the forum for a longer time, but this seems to me...
You have the blue wedge.
And since you just brought up this topic, I´m suspicious you got the fabled Barbie pink one too


----------



## northmanlogging

No Barbie wedges fer me lol

10 and 12" Red heads and the 8" double taper with the super slim tip.

Plus a couple of those big 15" bananas fer fatty ceders


----------



## RandyMac

what kind of oil do I use on my wedges while doing the Swedish stump dance?
BTW the trees have leaves on them.


----------



## KiwiBro

25:1


----------



## woodfarmer

Gologit said:


> No, that's fine. I just thought that since this is a _logging_ thread you might have dropped ten or fifteen more that you didn't show.


That was sarcasm, I usually fell 4-5 trees, then skid them out and repeat.
In my 30 years of felling trees, I’ve never had this happen so that’s why I post it here. To get the “professional” opinion.
This is a forestry and logging forum, I didn’t know it was for only those whose occupation is logger, as I do practice forestry management on my bush lots.


----------



## RandyMac

Don't cry, there are plenty of foresters here.
Go steep and deep.


----------



## madhatte

RandyMac said:


> Don't cry, there are plenty of foresters here.



why I oughta


----------



## northmanlogging

RandyMac said:


> what kind of oil do I use on my wedges while doing the Swedish stump dance?
> BTW the trees have leaves on them.


Astro Glide, the go to lube for all back cuts


----------



## RandyMac

onion


----------



## Jhenderson

Gologit said:


> First hand knowledge? Of what, GOL? You'd be right there. I doubt he's taken the course.
> 
> NM has quite a bit of first hand knowledge in falling though. Quite a bit.
> If I needed some falling done, especially tall stuff on short ground, without tearing up the leave trees and the two of you applied for the job I'd pick NM.
> He hasn't read the book but the trees don't read it either.
> 
> Everyone here has said the same thing...GOL has it's place. A good faller, an experienced faller, knows when to use the tricks in his bag. A weekend warrior wannabe has to stick to the dogma of GOL. He probably makes mistakes and has close calls he doesn't even recognize. That's scary.



You make a lot of assumptions. All I said was GOL says 2/3 tree dia for face cut. Then I referenced the notch closing before the tree made the ground. Then the crying about GOL started. Never did hear any reference to my observations, just criticism of GOL. Also heard several uninformed statements on GOL standards for cutting including hinge requirements and ALWAYS bore cutting on the back cut. Both are false. But you hire who you want. You're probably right. I've only been falling for about 35 years. I've still got a lot to learn.


----------



## bitzer

Woodfarmer- you want to remove as much compression wood in a tree before you release the tension wood. What this means is a wider face then you had. Gut the hinge from the face leaving tabs of Hinge on each side. In most trees you'll be cutting, 1/2" of hinge wood is sufficient and anything much thicker then that in ash with a narrow face will split the tree and or barber chair it. I put ash in the top three for most chair prone trees. White oak is second and hickory is first. Ash can be really manipulated well on the stump if you cut it up right. Swings great, holds great, but it can be a real ***** if you don't do it right.


----------



## Bwildered

Jhenderson said:


> You make a lot of assumptions. All I said was GOL says 2/3 tree dia for face cut. Then I referenced the notch closing before the tree made the ground. Then the crying about GOL started. Never did hear any reference to my observations, just criticism of GOL. Also heard several uninformed statements on GOL standards for cutting including hinge requirements and ALWAYS bore cutting on the back cut. Both are false. But you hire who you want. You're probably right. I've only been falling for about 35 years. I've still got a lot to learn.


I've noticed a lot of stuff on here I wouldn't advise anyone to do, you know like one handed cutting with their heads over the bar, chasing the hinge which means you're at the stump when the log hits the deck & limbs falling around them, everyone has to start somewhere, but some of the oldtimers are the worst offenders of perpetuating the bad practices which can get someone hurt real bad or worst.
Thanskinski


----------



## bitzer

I really don't have much to say about bore cutting other then the guys who do it all the time do it all the time and don't actually think about the Dynamics involved with what they're doing. You can cut every hardwood tree in north America without bore cutting any of them. You just have to know how. I haven't bore cut anything in years and I started bore cutting everything. Cutting trees and falling timber for production are two very different things. One is trying to get a tree safely to the ground without getting killed and one is trying to save out the entire stick for max dollar in the most safe, efficient way possible.


----------



## bitzer

Bwildered said:


> I've noticed a lot of stuff on here I wouldn't advise anyone to do, you know like one handed cutting with their heads over the bar, chasing the hinge which means you're at the stump when the log hits the deck & limbs falling around them, everyone has to start somewhere, but some of the oldtimers are the worst offenders of perpetuating the bad practices which can get someone hurt real bad or worst.
> Thanskinski



You cut up that broom handle yet?


----------



## Bwildered

bitzer said:


> You cut up that broom handle yet?


I might have to soon , seeing it's too hard a task for you blitzer, nearly a 100k a year & you can't afford the time and money to experiment with a handsaw & thumb sized sapling. Ho ho merry xmas


----------



## bitzer

Bwildered said:


> I might have to soon , seeing it's too hard a task for you blitzer, nearly a 100k a year & you can't afford the time and money to experiment with a handsaw & thumb sized sapling. Ho ho merry xmas


I experiment with actual trees Reggie. What's it like having Christmas in summer?


----------



## Bwildered

bitzer said:


> I experiment with actual trees Reggie. What's it like having Christmas in summer?


Me too & before you were even a glint in your mummas eye, Ive never seen one go anywhere but the general direction they were leaning to, I just live in the hope some hotshot can show me how, the old broomstick is so easy for them to demonstrate it on.
About 36'C today & 90% humidity, fairly average xmas weather. Having a long lunch then back to sawmilling after a swim in the river, I can hear a storm brewing so it might get bearable in a couple of hours.
Thanski


----------



## northmanlogging

sometimes I take the ignore function off... then I have to slap myself for doing so...

I admit I argue a lot, it comes from being told the wrong **** too often and learning the hard way how to do it right.

Folks just get an idea in their head and can't seem to get around the thought that there might be a better way, 

"these are just simple farmers,
people of the land,
common clay of the new land

You know Morons"


----------



## Bwildered

I'd be happy too! Didn't lose any teeth, the saw, bar, or get collected by the falling limbs


----------



## rico11764




----------



## Woody912

sw oh logger said:


> LOL That USED to be done, not much anymore that I'm aware of! My brother and I dug one out for a guy over 30 yrs. ago-- seems like I was running an 056 Super with a 24" bar --basically used up a good chain! Seriously, we cut LOW on good Walnut but don't dig them out!!



post on here about cutting 18" below groundline for some German buyer. Money talks I guess. Enough of it and one could rootwad and powerwash the stump I suppose!


----------



## madhatte

Bwildered said:


> I'd be happy too! Didn't lose any teeth, the saw, bar, or get collected by the falling limbs



Pulling the saw free by the starter cord is a well-respected trick for staying clear of those exact hazards. I'd think a guy who knows as much as you do would recognize that.


----------



## Trx250r180

Anyone else wake up to this ?


----------



## Skeans

Trx250r180 said:


> Anyone else wake up to this ?View attachment 619672
> View attachment 619673


Not here just liquid sunshine

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## northmanlogging

Trx250r180 said:


> Anyone else wake up to this ?View attachment 619672
> View attachment 619673



Nope just wind and rain here, got to see a little tree burst into flames and shoot sparks on the way out though


----------



## Bwildered

madhatte said:


> Pulling the saw free by the starter cord is a well-respected trick for staying clear of those exact hazards. I'd think a guy who knows as much as you do would recognize that.


The idea is not ever get into that situation where you have to use that trick


----------



## northmanlogging

Bwildered said:


> The idea is not ever get into that situation where you have to use that trick


... feeding the trolls but...

In a perfect world every tree would be a perfect taper, no lean, no obstructions, no underbrush, with 7 escape paths.

This isn't a perfect world and I for one am glad of that, so we need to be prepared to adapt and overcome that what challenges us.

So I can rescue the saw and get far enough away to be clear of the butt and bigger branches, risking the out liers that likely won't hurt real bad, or i can abandon the saw and loose it along with the weeks worth of work to replace it, probably hurrying me back to hourly wages in a shop i hate.

Which in the end is a fate worse then death to me at this point.

Blah blah saw is replaceable bla blah blah lives are not blah blah blah.

I know the risks, I am fully aware of the consequences of my decisions.

If the Norns smile on me all i can do is smile back.


----------



## bitzer

rico11764 said:


> View attachment 619558
> View attachment 619615
> View attachment 619616
> View attachment 619617
> View attachment 619618
> View attachment 619619


What's with all the Saginaw faces????


----------



## bitzer

Bwildered said:


> The idea is not ever get into that situation where you have to use that trick


If you've never had to do that you haven't cut enough timber. The more you talk the more you reveal, like I've said many times. So far I have one picture of one rotten stump from your own property. Let's see how far you can piss.


----------



## RandyMac

stand back


----------



## Bwildered

northmanlogging said:


> ... feeding the trolls but...
> 
> In a perfect world every tree would be a perfect taper, no lean, no obstructions, no underbrush, with 7 escape paths.
> 
> This isn't a perfect world and I for one am glad of that, so we need to be prepared to adapt and overcome that what challenges us.
> 
> So I can rescue the saw and get far enough away to be clear of the butt and bigger branches, risking the out liers that likely won't hurt real bad, or i can abandon the saw and loose it along with the weeks worth of work to replace it, probably hurrying me back to hourly wages in a shop i hate.
> 
> Which in the end is a fate worse then death to me at this point.
> 
> Blah blah saw is replaceable bla blah blah lives are not blah blah blah.
> 
> I know the risks, I am fully aware of the consequences of my decisions.
> 
> If the Norns smile on me all i can do is smile back.


I'd wager you'd have a nice stack of bars with the ends bent at 90' caused by chasing the hinge, I don't want to put you off putting your videos up , but that last one was a shocker of what not to do & nobody in their right mind would recommend going out & copying it.


----------



## Bwildered

RandyMac said:


> stand back


Don't have your mouth open like usual either!


----------



## northmanlogging

Bwildered said:


> I'd wager you'd have a nice stack of bars with the ends bent at 90' caused by chasing the hinge, I don't want to put you off putting your videos up , but that last one was a shocker of what not to do & nobody in their right mind would recommend going out & copying it.



**** right off.

I learned that little starter cord trick by watching someone far more experienced than me do it, be it Tarzan Tree, Hotsaws101 or my uncles in real life

If some one else sees and learns from it all the better, its half the reason I post videos in the first place.

For the record I have a pile of bent bars, its 3 deep, one of them was caused by the skidder and not from falling timber, its not nearly as deep as the pile of worn out bars or worn out chains.

Bent bars happen, its part of business, and part of being a cutter, its why we carry a spare.

But if you don't believe in swinging trees or chasing the hinge you wouldn't understand that would you?


----------



## Bwildered

bitzer said:


> If you've never had to do that you haven't cut enough timber. The more you talk the more you reveal, like I've said many times. So far I have one picture of one rotten stump from your own property. Let's see how far you can piss.


Who said I've never done it? I've done every stupid thing imaginable before you were even on the teat , the difference between you & I is I know getting into those situations is so stupid, avoidable & not worth it. I've lost gear & been clobbered & have lived to tell the tale.


----------



## northmanlogging

On the subject of learning...

and a big reason i don't edit my videos unless its simply for time... like refueling in the middle of a back cut (don't do that kids...)

There was a couple of real nice patches of timber that just got clear cut next to the house.... big second growth Fir

anyway, there is more sloping back cuts in there then I would have expected from a reputable company, and some serious fiber pulling, crooked back cuts, just overall kinda sloppy

Oh and they managed to take out the power despite having 3 big Yellow (well orange) hydraulic wedges, and a cable cat...

Made me wonder if they just aren't teaching folks to cut anymore.


----------



## northmanlogging

Bwildered said:


> Who said I've never done it? I've done every stupid thing imaginable before you were even on the teat , the difference between you & I is I know getting into those situations is so stupid, avoidable & not worth it. I've lost gear & been clobbered & have lived to tell the tale.


I like how you assume you are sooo much older then Bitzer, or me for that matter. And that everyone in the world has never been injured just poor old you that lived to tell about it, and would never do such a thing again

Think you would be surprised to find out just how old we are.


----------



## RandyMac

Bwildered said:


> Don't have your mouth open like usual either!



I figured you was bent.


----------



## Bwildered

northmanlogging said:


> **** right off.
> 
> I learned that little starter cord trick by watching someone far more experienced than me do it, be it Tarzan Tree, Hotsaws101 or my uncles in real life
> 
> If some one else sees and learns from it all the better, its half the reason I post videos in the first place.
> 
> For the record I have a pile of bent bars, its 3 deep, one of them was caused by the skidder and not from falling timber, its not nearly as deep as the pile of worn out bars or worn out chains.
> 
> Bent bars happen, its part of business, and part of being a cutter, its why we carry a spare.
> 
> But if you don't believe in swinging trees or chasing the hinge you wouldn't understand that would you?


I think you're not understanding where I'm coming from, I think cutting one handed & having your head in line over the bar while doing it is a fairly stupid thing to do, I think cutting 9/10ths of the hinge off on a sloping cut which was always going to pinch the bar leaving you near the butt & danger area while trying to save the saw was a another fairly stupid thing to do, the starter rope trick was the finale' to the lesson.


----------



## northmanlogging

Bwildered said:


> I think you're not understanding where I'm coming from, I think cutting one handed & having your head in line over the bar while doing it is a fairly stupid thing to do, I think cutting 9/10ths of the hinge off on a sloping cut which was always going to pinch the bar leaving you near the butt & danger area while trying to save the saw was a another fairly stupid thing to do, the starter rope trick was the finale' to the lesson.


You obviously don't understand how to side slip then, its not safe, its not average jack ass cutting, if you want it to slip off the stump there can't be any hold wood to hold it, so you have to stick with it.

**** it go back on ignore, yer an ignorant mutt with nothing to add to any conversation you've been in but negativity and bile.

I sometimes forget a life lesson, to not argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.


----------



## Bwildered

northmanlogging said:


> You obviously don't understand how to side slip then, its not safe, its not average jack ass cutting, if you want it to slip off the stump there can't be any hold wood to hold it, so you have to stick with it.
> 
> **** it go back on ignore, yer an ignorant mutt with nothing to add to any conversation you've been in but negativity and bile.
> 
> I sometimes forget a life lesson, to not argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.


It's hard for an outsider to understand how the stupid can justify their stupid antics, eventually you've manned up & said its not safe, I do like your videos but don't take it the wrong way , Not everyone is green & not going to mention when you're doing something fairly stupid


----------



## madhatte

Trx250r180 said:


> Anyone else wake up to this ?



Naw, it was absolutely pouring here until the afternoon.



Bwildered said:


> The idea is not ever get into that situation where you have to use that trick



Sure would be nice to cut in a world where I only had nice safe situations instead of lousy nasty dangerous ones. Yet, somehow, all I get is burnt fir snags full of bullets, or sprung alders, or rotten forked oaks, or whatever. I'll take any trick for my bag that gets me home safely. Some of these tricks aren't elegant, and a whole lot of them aren't OSHA approved. Yet, they work, and I carry on. I'll use whatever cheat I have to to get the job done safely.


----------



## Bwildered

madhatte said:


> Naw, it was absolutely pouring here until the afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> Sure would be nice to cut in a world where I only had nice safe situations instead of lousy nasty dangerous ones. Yet, somehow, all I get is burnt fir snags full of bullets, or sprung alders, or rotten forked oaks, or whatever. I'll take any trick for my bag that gets me home safely. Some of these tricks aren't elegant, and a whole lot of them aren't OSHA approved. Yet, they work, and I carry on. I'll use whatever cheat I have to to get the job done safely.


There's an old saying " there are old loggers and there are bold loggers, but there are no old bold loggers" really though with an excavator & skidder onsite who wouldn't use them to bump or push over a dodgy stick, I cut & snig by myself & my machine isn't more than a dozen paces from the tree I'm falling, who goes out of their way to make life harder & more dangerous when it's not needed?
Thanski


----------



## bitzer

Reggie is 60-70 Northy. I forget exactly. He was a desk jocky at the county all his life until he retired and bought a dozer so he could snig and snog as a hobby.


Reggie- you can't always get equipment behind the trees even where I'm at. In steep ground there's no way. It's also about as time efficient as ******** your pants twice a day. I personally wouldn't want to push a snag over. Way too good of a chance of the top breaking out onto the machine. Even with all the forestry steel in the world protecting the cage it's not a great idea.


----------



## hseII

northmanlogging said:


> You guys like to cut in the dirt on them walnut sticks...
> 
> I know they are worth money but my guts clench when I have to start digging the roots out by hand... I like tall stumps.
> 
> GOL thing is a dead horse, soon we'll be onto a wedge thread again...



A Tall Stump & Wedge Thread Picture.


----------



## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> On the subject of learning...
> 
> and a big reason i don't edit my videos unless its simply for time... like refueling in the middle of a back cut (don't do that kids...)
> 
> There was a couple of real nice patches of timber that just got clear cut next to the house.... big second growth Fir
> 
> anyway, there is more sloping back cuts in there then I would have expected from a reputable company, and some serious fiber pulling, crooked back cuts, just overall kinda sloppy
> 
> Oh and they managed to take out the power despite having 3 big Yellow (well orange) hydraulic wedges, and a cable cat...
> 
> Made me wonder if they just aren't teaching folks to cut anymore.


I can tell you down here they aren't talked to a cutter two weeks ago it was the first company ground he'd been on for over a month otherwise it's just small private jobs. It use to be just oversize, then just the steep, now it's just the bluffs or the steep stuff because one of the tethering machines isn't free.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Bwildered

bitzer said:


> Reggie is 60-70 Northy. I forget exactly. He was a desk jocky at the county all his life until he retired and bought a dozer so he could snig and snog as a hobby.
> 
> 
> Reggie- you can't always get equipment behind the trees even where I'm at. In steep ground there's no way. It's also about as time efficient as ******** your pants twice a day. I personally wouldn't want to push a snag over. Way too good of a chance of the top breaking out onto the machine. Even with all the forestry steel in the world protecting the cage it's not a great idea.


Not even close blitzer!

So you'd rather have no protection of a machine & pit your hard head against a limb or the top of a tree doing the same task? What sort of logic is that? if it was too risky to fall & I couldn't use a machine or a safe method I'd just leave it, after all they're still making them & not worth unnecessarily risking ones neck for .


----------



## Gologit

northmanlogging said:


> You obviously don't understand how to side slip then, its not safe, its not average jack ass cutting, if you want it to slip off the stump there can't be any hold wood to hold it, so you have to stick with it.
> 
> **** it go back on ignore, yer an ignorant mutt with nothing to add to any conversation you've been in but negativity and bile.
> 
> I sometimes forget a life lesson, to not argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.



Is Bwilderd here again? Is he saying anything sensible enough for me to take him off IGNORE or is it the usual useless blather?


----------



## Gologit

madhatte said:


> Naw, it was absolutely pouring here until the afternoon.
> 
> 
> 
> Sure would be nice to cut in a world where I only had nice safe situations instead of lousy nasty dangerous ones. Yet, somehow, all I get is burnt fir snags full of bullets, or sprung alders, or rotten forked oaks, or whatever. I'll take any trick for my bag that gets me home safely. Some of these tricks aren't elegant, and a whole lot of them aren't OSHA approved. Yet, they work, and I carry on. I'll use whatever cheat I have to to get the job done safely.



Well said.


----------



## bitzer

Bwildered said:


> Not even close blitzer!
> 
> So you'd rather have no protection of a machine & pit your hard head against a limb or the top of a tree doing the same task? What sort of logic is that? if it was too risky to fall & I couldn't use a machine or a safe method I'd just leave it, after all they're still making them & not worth unnecessarily risking ones neck for .



Do you have any paperwork or photographic evidence to support your claims? 


I just found this- Australian provincial code 799.6675C- an operator must have a minimum of 7 years snogging experience to apply for a snigging license. Are you snigging without a license Reggie Smith?


----------



## rwoods

Gologit said:


> Is Bwilderd here again? Is he saying anything sensible enough for me to take him off IGNORE or is it the usual useless blather?



Decision probably depends upon your blood pressure.

Our down under friend doesn’t agree with the risks that our faller friends take in pursuit of their livelihoods. 

Personally I see a world of difference between someone making lumber from their own ground and someone engaged to make someone else’s trees into marketable logs. Decision dynamics to leave or cut, how to cut, etc. are different in my thinking.

Ron


----------



## madhatte

Bwildered said:


> if it was too risky to fall & I couldn't use a machine or a safe method I'd just leave it, after all they're still making them & not worth unnecessarily risking ones neck for .



I don't always have that choice. Much of what I cut is for firefighter safety. I don't care at all about saving out volume, or pleasing inspectors, or whatever. Sometimes I do have machinery to work ahead of or under, but not very often. I'll absolutely work under an excavator bucket if it's available but I don't carry one of those around in my back pocket. Usually it's just me and maybe a minimal crew. We make it work with what we've got because that's how things are. Always interested in how to work smarter.



bitzer said:


> Way too good of a chance of the top breaking out onto the machine. Even with all the forestry steel in the world protecting the cage it's not a great idea.



I watched the very thing happen last fall. Excavator operator was really jamming on a fir snag and the top accordioned back on him, well behind the tree's center of gravity. It hit hard enough to blast all of the glass out of the cab, not by breaking it but by pressurizing the cab and popping it all out of the seals. It was a hell of a hit, and while there were no injuries, the repairs were expensive.


----------



## northmanlogging

Gologit said:


> Is Bwilderd here again? Is he saying anything sensible enough for me to take him off IGNORE or is it the usual useless blather?


Yes, No, Yes


----------



## northmanlogging

rwoods said:


> Decision probably depends upon your blood pressure.
> 
> Our down under friend doesn’t agree with the risks that our faller friends take in pursuit of their livelihoods.
> 
> Personally I see a world of difference between someone making lumber from their own ground and someone engaged to make someone else’s trees into marketable logs. Decision dynamics to leave or cut, how to cut, etc. are different in my thinking.
> 
> Ron



Most folks that hire me, are looking to get paid, or looking to have their timber look better. So I take everything that can make them money, or everything that is junk or dangerous. Other jobs, its planning ahead so the woods look better in 30-40 years when they are about to retire, these jobs are the most challenging cause if you screw up, you screw them out of money later.

I don't really get to choose, I can pass on stuff that is really bad, but it doesn't happen often. 

I take pride in making money where others can't, my clients generally come out ahead, some jobs not as much as I would like, but junk wood is junk wood.

Too surmise, I'm not cherry picking the easy ones, most folks around here could do that on their own, but luckily most folks know their limits and I stay in work.


----------



## Gologit

rwoods said:


> Decision probably depends upon your blood pressure.
> 
> Our down under friend doesn’t agree with the risks that our faller friends take in pursuit of their livelihoods.
> 
> Personally I see a world of difference between someone making lumber from their own ground and someone engaged to make someone else’s trees into marketable logs. Decision dynamics to leave or cut, how to cut, etc. are different in my thinking.
> 
> Ron



BP is 130/75. Not bad for an old fart.

Bwildered will _never _agree with a lot of the things we do. He'd rather argue than learn. His loss.
With that thought in mind I'll let Bitzer and NM deal with him. I like my BP right where it is.


----------



## hseII

madhatte said:


> I don't always have that choice. Much of what I cut is for firefighter safety. I don't care at all about saving out volume, or pleasing inspectors, or whatever. Sometimes I do have machinery to work ahead of or under, but not very often. I'll absolutely work under an excavator bucket if it's available but I don't carry one of those around in my back pocket. Usually it's just me and maybe a minimal crew. We make it work with what we've got because that's how things are. Always interested in how to work smarter.
> 
> 
> 
> I watched the very thing happen last fall. Excavator operator was really jamming on a fir snag and the top accordioned back on him, well behind the tree's center of gravity. It hit hard enough to blast all of the glass out of the cab, not by breaking it but by pressurizing the cab and popping it all out of the seals. It was a hell of a hit, and while there were no injuries, the repairs were expensive.



I’ve used a Hoe to drop trees against their lean, but I’d rather use Rigging.


----------



## northmanlogging

nah bitz he's all yours, can't teach a brick anything but mortar and chisles


----------



## madhatte

hseII said:


> I’ve used a Hoe to drop trees against their lean, but I’d rather use Rigging.



We've got a few extra-extra-extra-extra-sketchy ones in people spaces that I won't cut and the operators won't put their machinery under that we're gonna have no choice but to buy rigging for. I'll sleep easier once they're down. Why don't we already have rigging? Because past management preferred not to mess with snags at all, until they started splashing into roads and hitting cars. Now we're playing catch-up. I'm glad to finally be dealing with it, but it's way more dangerous now than it had to be, and it's the fault of risk-averse management passing the problem off to the next generation. Ain't new, I know, but it's real, and it's what we're dealing with.


----------



## hseII

madhatte said:


> We've got a few extra-extra-extra-extra-sketchy ones in people spaces that I won't cut and the operators won't put their machinery under that we're gonna have no choice but to buy rigging for. I'll sleep easier once they're down. Why don't we already have rigging? Because past management preferred not to mess with snags at all, until they started splashing into roads and hitting cars. Now we're playing catch-up. I'm glad to finally be dealing with it, but it's way more dangerous now than it had to be, and it's the fault of risk-averse management passing the problem off to the next generation. Ain't new, I know, but it's real, and it's what we're dealing with.



I Agree 100%. 

These trees were dead last year: they are still dead this year. [emoji57]






See the Pool.


----------



## bitzer

I


Gologit said:


> BP is 130/75. Not bad for an old fart.
> 
> Bwildered will _never _agree with a lot of the things we do. He'd rather argue than learn. His loss.
> With that thought in mind I'll let Bitzer and NM deal with him. I like my BP right where it is.


He's the type of guy that knows how to do everything better then you but hes too good to show you like he's got some secret up his sleeve no one knows. It's kind of fun messing with him when I'm bored though.


----------



## bitzer

madhatte said:


> I don't always have that choice. Much of what I cut is for firefighter safety. I don't care at all about saving out volume, or pleasing inspectors, or whatever. Sometimes I do have machinery to work ahead of or under, but not very often. I'll absolutely work under an excavator bucket if it's available but I don't carry one of those around in my back pocket. Usually it's just me and maybe a minimal crew. We make it work with what we've got because that's how things are. Always interested in how to work smarter.
> 
> 
> 
> I watched the very thing happen last fall. Excavator operator was really jamming on a fir snag and the top accordioned back on him, well behind the tree's center of gravity. It hit hard enough to blast all of the glass out of the cab, not by breaking it but by pressurizing the cab and popping it all out of the seals. It was a hell of a hit, and while there were no injuries, the repairs were expensive.




Snags are trouble no matter how they get dealt with but adding extra forces to me seems a bad idea when there are people under them. Do you guys ever get to blow up snags?


----------



## northmanlogging

bitzer said:


> Snags are trouble no matter how they get dealt with but adding extra forces to me seems a bad idea when there are people under them. Do you guys ever get to blow up snags?



A pull line with light but firm pressure werks pretty good, especially some of these fancy rigging ropes the arboristas use, acts like a big rubber band.

Tie it to a decent winch and move the world.

If they are real bad then there is no choice but climb em or bucket truck and chunk em down.

I don't mind being under snags... much...
Just have to show them a little more respect and have good escape paths,


----------



## madhatte

hseII said:


> These trees were dead last year: they are still dead this year.



Ain't that the truth!



bitzer said:


> Do you guys ever get to blow up snags?



I freakin' wish. The EOD guys don't have time to mess with our problems, and we don't have the authorization, but there is some noise being made about sending a few of us to get the training. Ain't holding my breath. We'll see how it works out. 



northmanlogging said:


> Tie it to a decent winch and move the world.



That's pretty much my whole plan right there. Get back out of harm's way and pull until something breaks, and then clean up the mess.


----------



## northmanlogging

Tie it off, cripple it, vacate, winch er over


----------



## madhatte

My thoughts exactly.


----------



## hseII

northmanlogging said:


> A pull line with light but firm pressure werks pretty good, especially some of these fancy rigging ropes the arboristas use, acts like a big rubber band.
> 
> Tie it to a decent winch and move the world.
> 
> If they are real bad then there is no choice but climb em or bucket truck and chunk em down.
> 
> I don't mind being under snags... much...
> Just have to show them a little more respect and have good escape paths,








It’s amazing what a MA 5:1, some some Prussiks, & some Rigging rated Biners can do with a solid bull rope.


----------



## madhatte

Good old mechanical advantage wins every time!


----------



## Frank Savage

northmanlogging said:


> A pull line with light but firm pressure werks pretty good, especially some of these fancy rigging ropes the arboristas use, acts like a big rubber band.
> 
> I don't mind being under snags... much...
> Just have to show them a little more respect and have good escape paths,



Rookie arbo (well, of the removal kind mostly) here... My thinking exactly. Not going snagging without trusty 4:1 "pocket hoist" and one pulley to make it 8:1 if needed somewhere handy, at least in the car. Five yards worth of 600# pull (or half the travel at 1200#] can move lots of things to the bright side of the day.
The 3/4" and 7/8" kinds of marine double braid ropes work also wonders for the purpose of "light, but firm rubber band".

Show them a little more respect, have good escape path-plus:
-cut the backcut with pull side of the bar as exclusively as possible (hail the fullwraps!)
-and once you think it might start to loose first signs of equlibrium during backcut, whenever remotely possible, have one (gloveless if possible) hand on the stem, on the wood (not bark remmants or rotten fibrous stuff). Far better than eyes and ears combined. Tells the truth right the moment someting starts to move, even if not falling to smack yer´ top knot.
Funny line here-when getting into this, I had several "near underwear change calls" because of other trees twigs tapping the snag in the light wind gust, squirrel bailing out, small birds I didn´t notice coming to see the noisy jerk and alike.


----------



## Bwildered

madhatte said:


> I don't always have that choice. Much of what I cut is for firefighter safety. I don't care at all about saving out volume, or pleasing inspectors, or whatever. Sometimes I do have machinery to work ahead of or under, but not very often. I'll absolutely work under an excavator bucket if it's available but I don't carry one of those around in my back pocket. Usually it's just me and maybe a minimal crew. We make it work with what we've got because that's how things are. Always interested in how to work smarter.
> 
> 
> I watched the very thing happen last fall. Excavator operator was really jamming on a fir snag and the top accordioned back on him, well behind the tree's center of gravity. It hit hard enough to blast all of the glass out of the cab, not by breaking it but by pressurizing the cab and popping it all out of the seals. It was a hell of a hit, and while there were no injuries, the repairs were expensive.


_*Everyone has the choice to leave something that's too risky, only the cowboy gypo's think otherwise*_

*Obviously the excavator operator should have left it alone*


----------



## rwoods

Hindsight is usually clearer, but should not be used as the exclusive view to judge one's decisions. Ron


----------



## Bwildered

bitzer said:


> Do you have any paperwork or photographic evidence to support your claims?
> 
> 
> I just found this- Australian provincial code 799.6675C- an operator must have a minimum of 7 years snogging experience to apply for a snigging license. Are you snigging without a license Reggie Smith?


What claims blitzer? You're the one reading direct from the gypo's handbook on how not to do something & some imaginary code!


----------



## rwoods

Gologit said:


> BP is 130/75. Not bad for an old fart.
> 
> ... .



I would say pretty good. Since November of 2010, I have to take these little round pills to stay in that range. Even medicated, I have to be relaxed - so I can't enjoy the bantering that goes on here much. Seems some do, which is fine with me as I don't view this lot as leading folks into harm's way. Ron


----------



## Bwildered

rwoods said:


> Hindsight is usually clearer, but should not be used as the exclusive view to judge one's decisions. Ron


When you let loose someones who have no experience in the task or common sense either operating the machine or directing it the end result was inevitable.


----------



## rwoods

And you gathered all that from Madhatte's short discourse. Amazing. Maybe you should get a job as a judge - might save a lot of time and expense for your fellow countrymen. Ron


----------



## Bwildered

bitzer said:


> I
> 
> He's the type of guy that knows how to do everything better then you but hes too good to show you like he's got some secret up his sleeve no one knows. It's kind of fun messing with him when I'm bored though.


Gypo's get bored really easily


----------



## Bwildered

rwoods said:


> And you gathered all that from Madhatte's short discourse. Amazing. Maybe you should get a job as a judge - might save a lot of time and expense for your fellow countrymen. Ron


So when you're jamming a tree with the boom of an excavator you would expect it to perhaps break ? And if breaks where will it go ?
You're out of your depth of knowledge & being a yes man


----------



## Bwildered

northmanlogging said:


> nah bitz he's all yours, can't teach a brick anything but mortar and chisles


You've taught me heaps , the last one was how not to do something.


----------



## rwoods

My friend, you would have more respect for your opinions, knowledge, etc. if you wouldn't jump to so many conclusions. You haven't a clue as to the depth of my knowledge though admittedly limited and I have come to doubt that you appreciate the depth of the knowledge of those actually engaged in the trades represented here. Maybe, just maybe, "really jamming" was an exaggeration. Or maybe the operator misjudged or miss moved. Have you ever done something that you knew you shouldn't and the result was what you "knew" would happened but not what you hoped? Sure you have. We all have. Does that mean we are all stupid, inexperienced or lacking in common sense? You know better than that. Ron


----------



## Bwildered

rwoods said:


> My friend, you would have more respect for your opinions, knowledge, etc. if you wouldn't jump to so many conclusions. You haven't a clue as to the depth of my knowledge though admittedly limited and I have come to doubt that you appreciate the depth of the knowledge of those actually engaged in the trades represented here. Maybe, just maybe, "really jamming" was an exaggeration. Or maybe the operator misjudged or miss moved. Have you ever done something that you knew you shouldn't and the result was what you "knew" would happened but not what you hoped? Sure you have. We all have. Does that mean we are all stupid, inexperienced or lacking in common sense? You know better than that. Ron


Mate I've already said I've done every stupid thing conceivable, I just don't fall into the trap of being an idiot & supporting stupid things done though, just to stay in with the crowd.
BTW I've worked a lot with excavators & dozers doing tree work clearing & removing dangerous trees. Once apon a time I used to be a shotfirer & that was the safest method by far in getting rid of them, with your balsa wood it'd be even easier.


----------



## madhatte

Bwildered said:


> *Obviously the excavator operator should have left it alone*



Oh, please. I'm not his mommy and neither are you.


----------



## rwoods

BW: Don't doubt that you spend time behind the levers. Also don't doubt that you try to stay out of the social trap you described. The points I have tried to get across to you have nothing to do with pleasing the crowd for the sake of being "in"; they are simply: 1) the decision dynamics to leave or cut, how to cut, etc. are different for each of the professions represented here and 2) if you want your opinion heard and considered then you have to reciprocate in kind - dismissing folks with summary conclusions will only get you the same - not too productive, unless the goal is just to stir.

The folks here have graciously put up with my intrusions over the years and I have learned a lot from them. Do I think every risk they take is justified? No. Am I marginally qualified to make some judgments? Yes. Should I summarily dismiss their opinions without being in their boots at some point in my life? No. The latter I believe is where some here are coming from - they don't believe that you have been in their boots. Ron


----------



## northmanlogging

rwoods said:


> BW: Don't doubt that you spend time behind the levers. Also don't doubt that you try to stay out of the social trap you described. The points I have tried to get across to you have nothing to do with pleasing the crowd for the sake of being "in"; they are simply: 1) the decision dynamics to leave or cut, how to cut, etc. are different for each of the professions represented here and 2) if you want your opinion heard and considered then you have to reciprocate in kind - dismissing folks with summary conclusions will only get you the same - not too productive, unless the goal is just to stir.
> 
> The folks here have graciously put up with my intrusions over the years and I have learned a lot from them. Do I think every risk they take is justified? No. Am I marginally qualified to make some judgments? Yes. Should I summarily dismiss their opinions without being in their boots at some point in my life? No. The latter I believe is where some here are coming from - they don't believe that you have been in their boots. Ron



The difference is the admittance of not being the best whatever... ever...

A drop or four I'd humility goes a long ways


----------



## Bwildered

madhatte said:


> Oh, please. I'm not his mommy and neither are you.


If you're in charge you are his mommy, daddy & arsekicker.


----------



## Bwildered

rwoods said:


> BW: Don't doubt that you spend time behind the levers. Also don't doubt that you try to stay out of the social trap you described. The points I have tried to get across to you have nothing to do with pleasing the crowd for the sake of being "in"; they are simply: 1) the decision dynamics to leave or cut, how to cut, etc. are different for each of the professions represented here and 2) if you want your opinion heard and considered then you have to reciprocate in kind - dismissing folks with summary conclusions will only get you the same - not too productive, unless the goal is just to stir.
> 
> The folks here have graciously put up with my intrusions over the years and I have learned a lot from them. Do I think every risk they take is justified? No. Am I marginally qualified to make some judgments? Yes. Should I summarily dismiss their opinions without being in their boots at some point in my life? No. The latter I believe is where some here are coming from - they don't believe that you have been in their boots. Ron


Well let's see if you're on the " in " crowd,
do you think that sawing one handed while having your face close, over & inline with the bar is a really dangerous thing to do?
Do you think that purposely doing sloping cuts & cutting 9/10th of the hinge away which pinched the bar leaving the cutter in the danger zone trying to save a saw is a really dangerous thing to do?
If you've been following this the "in" crowd have been defending the stupid act, I don't mind ramping it up to shine a light on them losing their rag.


----------



## rwoods

BW, 

I don’t recall reading where anyone “in” or “out” said these practices aren’t dangerous. I believe the points made regarding the hinge and slope were directed at that being a method to get a stem in a particular spot. Not the absence of danger. 

About the only hands on training I have is my dad drilling into my head to never stand in the line of the bar - advice that likely saved my life 35 years ago when I was showing off. Does getting my face any where near a bar make me nervous, you bet it does.

As to one hand sawing, not only is NM a big dude, but the kickback hazard with a bar longer than the cut and with no obstacles is practically nil. Not that anyone should look to me as an example, but I frequently buck one handed when running a heavy long bar saw in the clear. Rarely if ever do I run a small or short bar saw that way. The risk of a torpedo I would hope has been assessed. Standing to the side likewise limits the risk of injury from that. Is it possible to always stand in the clear doubtful. Some do a better job at that than others. Same for looking up. 

Does this make me in or out, I don’t know and I don’t really care.

Ron


----------



## Skeans

It's always fun bucking stuff on a steep slope with two hands let's see how fast this will suck me in with it when she goes. One handed bucking and falling isn't that uncommon out here for the larger timber we have or to look out in the cut well cutting there's only so much bar and normally a larger diameter low stump.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Bwildered

rwoods said:


> BW,
> 
> I don’t recall reading where anyone “in” or “out” said these practices aren’t dangerous. I believe the points made regarding the hinge and slope were directed at that being a method to get a stem in a particular spot. Not the absence of danger.
> 
> About the only hands on training I have is my dad drilling into my head to never stand in the line of the bar - advice that likely saved my life 35 years ago when I was showing off. Does getting my face any where near a bar make me nervous, you bet it does.
> 
> As to one hand sawing, not only is NM a big dude, but the kickback hazard with a bar longer than the cut and with no obstacles is practically nil. Not that anyone should look to me as an example, but I frequently buck one handed when running a heavy long bar saw in the clear. Rarely if ever do I run a small or short bar saw that way. The risk of a torpedo I would hope has been assessed. Standing to the side likewise limits the risk of injury from that. Is it possible to always stand in the clear doubtful. Some do a better job at that than others. Same for looking up.
> 
> Does this make me in or out, I don’t know and I don’t really care.
> 
> Ron


With an answer like that of a politician who would know.


----------



## rwoods

Bwildered said:


> With an answer like that of a politician who would know.



Send me a campaign contribution, be sure and tell me if I am running as an in or an out. Either way I’ll spend your money wisely. Ron


----------



## rwoods

Seriously, BW, most of life isn’t black or white. And neither are the matters discussed here. You seem to have a problem dealing with that. 

Ron


----------



## Bwildered

rwoods said:


> Send me a campaign contribution, be sure and tell me if I am running as an in or an out. Either way I’ll spend your money wisely. Ron


Sure thing , I've just written you a cheque for $10,000 , it'll be there tomorrow.


----------



## Stowe Boy

Falls pics anyone?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Bwildered

rwoods said:


> Seriously, BW, most of life isn’t black or white. And neither are the matters discussed here. You seem to have a problem dealing with that.
> 
> Ron


Is that like your problem of not being even able to answer two straightforward questions put to you?
There are only two ways it can go, the normal answer or the gypo's answer .


----------



## Gologit

rwoods said:


> As to one hand sawing, not only is NM a big dude, but the kickback hazard with a bar longer than the cut and with no obstacles is practically nil. Not that anyone should look to me as an example, but I frequently buck one handed when running a heavy long bar saw in the clear. Rarely if ever do I run a small or short bar saw that way. The risk of a torpedo I would hope has been assessed. Standing to the side likewise limits the risk of injury from that. Is it possible to always stand in the clear doubtful. Some do a better job at that than others. Same for looking up.
> 
> Does this make me in or out, I don’t know and I don’t really care.
> 
> Ron



Bucking one handed? Yup. Especially in large wood and with the older, slower saws. You'd pick your spots of course but it wasn't anything you'd get yelled at for.
Get a good run in the log and just let it eat. If your chain was filed right it didn't take much guidance. 
Then you can grab a smoke or a pinch of chew or scratch your ass or whatever else you could do with the free hand. 
And if a saw wants to torpedo out of the log two hands won't stop it anyway.


----------



## madhatte

Bwildered said:


> If you're in charge you are his mommy, daddy & arsekicker.



That's not my job at all. Micromanagement only makes enemies. I trust my operators to know their machines better than I do. Sometimes mistakes are made. Sometimes we have conversations about those mistakes, so that we can all learn from them. Yelling is only for sounding an alarm.


----------



## Skeans

Stowe Boy said:


> Falls big pics anyone?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This count?






Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Skeans

madhatte said:


> That's not my job at all. Micromanagement only makes enemies. I trust my operators to know their machines better than I do. Sometimes mistakes are made. Sometimes we have conversations about those mistakes, so that we can all learn from them. Yelling is only for sounding an alarm.


Remember he's down where you need training, a stamp, license, then a jerking of the right person to do anything so everything is micro managed.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Bwildered

madhatte said:


> That's not my job at all. Micromanagement only makes enemies. I trust my operators to know their machines better than I do. Sometimes mistakes are made. Sometimes we have conversations about those mistakes, so that we can all learn from them. Yelling is only for sounding an alarm.


Who said anything about yelling , if you're in charge you have to find out if they're competent & not going to do anything stupid & out of their depth which may inadvertently get someone killed, a faller down the road was killed by a dickhead operator who pushed over a tree on top of him while he was walking along a track with his saw while the dozer followed 30 meters behind.
the cowboy operators have made the mistakes already and one only has to be slightly brighter than them to not become a statistic like them instead of the trusty rabbits foot charm.


----------



## Bwildered

Skeans said:


> Remember he's down where you need training, a stamp, license, then a jerking of the right person to do anything so everything is micro managed.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Life is a lot cheaper in your neck of the woods.


----------



## Bwildered

Gologit said:


> Bucking one handed? Yup. Especially in large wood and with the older, slower saws. You'd pick your spots of course but it wasn't anything you'd get yelled at for.
> Get a good run in the log and just let it eat. If your chain was filed right it didn't take much guidance.
> Then you can grab a smoke or a pinch of chew or scratch your ass or whatever else you could do with the free hand.
> And if a saw wants to torpedo out of the log two hands won't stop it anyway.


So you've jumped from one handed falling cutting with the blokes kisser really close, over & in line with a cutting chain to selected crosscut sawing which has none if the dangers of the falling situation , you must be thinking everyone but you must be an idiot so as not to notice .


----------



## madhatte

Bwildered said:


> if you're in charge you have to find out if they're competent



Why would I work with anybody who isn't competent?


----------



## Bwildered

madhatte said:


> Why would I work with anybody who isn't competent?


Weren't you the bloke who watched an operator take out the cab of his machine doing something stupid? He could have easily got you or one of your crew instead, maybe the meaning of competent over there means you can amazingly get to work unassisted.


----------



## rwoods

BW, it appears you are back to that familiar spot of arguing for the sake of arguing. I tried to help you make your points. No one here is stupid or naive. 

This is a falling picture thread in a logging forum. How about posting a few pictures of your fallings or just move on. I’m not a logger so I will just move on.

Ron


----------



## madhatte

Bwildered said:


> Weren't you the bloke who watched an operator take out the cab of his machine doing something stupid?



Here's the deal. That tree had to come down, because it was in a place and a condition where it was an immediate hazard to firefighters. It was far too sketchy up top for me to cut, and full of bullets to boot. I crippled it to make it easier to push over by putting a face in the back side (where the bullets aren't) and putting part of a backcut in, but not enough to move the top. The operator is a guy with 20+ years experience. The tree wasn't going over, because it was a 36" Douglas-Fir, and those things, even dead and partly-rotten, don't give up the ghost easily. He pushed until there was no more push to give, then let off, got closer, and tried again. It still didn't let go. Finally he resorted to rocking it, because that was breaking the fibers down low. The top came out and clobbered the cab. The FOPS held, as designed. He knew his risks, and was not injured. This was an expensive mishap, but there were no injuries, and firefighter safety was significantly enhanced. If you're gonna take the moral absolutism tack where protecting the machine at all costs is the only acceptable answer, then, I suppose we don't have anything else to talk about.


----------



## Bwildered

madhatte said:


> Here's the deal. That tree had to come down, because it was in a place and a condition where it was an immediate hazard to firefighters. It was far too sketchy up top for me to cut, and full of bullets to boot. I crippled it to make it easier to push over by putting a face in the back side (where the bullets aren't) and putting part of a backcut in, but not enough to move the top. The operator is a guy with 20+ years experience. The tree wasn't going over, because it was a 36" Douglas-Fir, and those things, even dead and partly-rotten, don't give up the ghost easily. He pushed until there was no more push to give, then let off, got closer, and tried again. It still didn't let go. Finally he resorted to rocking it, because that was breaking the fibers down low. The top came out and clobbered the cab. The FOPS held, as designed. He knew his risks, and was not injured. This was an expensive mishap, but there were no injuries, and firefighter safety was significantly enhanced. If you're gonna take the moral absolutism tack where protecting the machine at all costs is the only acceptable answer, then, I suppose we don't have anything else to talk about.


A classic example of a tree that should have been left once it wouldn't come down with the safe application of excavator force, because when it went beyond that the inevitable happened, sheer dumb arsed luck saved the operator from being killed as no FOPS made is the match for the top of a large tree coming down from a great height, if it had been over a certain size, solid with a direct hit at the right angle you would have been attending a funeral. Dangerous trees whether burning or not get hung up all the time & if they can't be brought down safety an exclusion zone is made around them which no one is to enter, it doesn't matter if it's a fire emergency or whatever no tree is worth being killed over. Having the intelligence & guts to say no & find another way around it is the real challenge. If you think doing the things that old northy did in that last video are ok , do them in front of your assessor & see how long they will let you operate a chainsaw


----------



## Bwildered

rwoods said:


> BW, it appears you are back to that familiar spot of arguing for the sake of arguing. I tried to help you make your points. No one here is stupid or naive.
> 
> This is a falling picture thread in a logging forum. How about posting a few pictures of your fallings or just move on. I’m not a logger so I will just move on.
> 
> Ron


And yet you still can't answer two straight questions in a straightforward manner to distinguish you from the crowd


----------



## rwoods

I said I was moving on, but if you insist on a parting exchange - I did answer your questions and you don't like the answers. Whether or not something is very dangerous is not always the determining factor of whether to do it or not. If your ancestors thought and behave the way you suggest, you would be speaking a different language if you even existed at all. Ron


----------



## northmanlogging

Bwildered said:


> A classic example of a tree that should have been left once it wouldn't come down with the safe application of excavator force, because when it went beyond that the inevitable happened, sheer dumb arsed luck saved the operator from being killed as no FOPS made is the match for the top of a large tree coming down from a great height, if it had been over a certain size, solid with a direct hit at the right angle you would have been attending a funeral. Dangerous trees whether burning or not get hung up all the time & if they can't be brought down safety an exclusion zone is made around them which no one is to enter, it doesn't matter if it's a fire emergency or whatever no tree is worth being killed over. Having the intelligence & guts to say no & find another way around it is the real challenge. If you think doing the things that old northy did in that last video are ok , do them in front of your assessor & see how long they will let you operate a chainsaw


Here I go again, last time promise...

Sometimes, a few put themselves at risk so that others can be safe.

As I've said before, I deal with what other folks can't or won't, meaning danger trees, close quarter work near houses/buildings etc, I and those like me, know and understand the risk, accept it as what needs done to make others safer, mitigate as much of the risk as possible and get the job done. When a tree needs down, it needs down for a reason, Madhatte's work is crowded with 18-22 year old idiots, stuffed in cracker box housing, with limited funds for silly things like trees. If they didn't take the time to deal with it someone innocent likely would have been killed by it. Flagging "danger trees" and avoiding them works when you have 400 acres to play in, not when you have 50 feet.

Be it crooked cuts, shoving with machines underweight for the job, whatever. While there is a lot of death and dismemberment in logging, its from one of 2 reasons, not knowing or becoming complacent to the dangers, I.E. real young and dumb or just old enough to start thinking its routine.

In the end Loggers (and tree service/arborists) put our lives at risk so you can shelter your ass while you sleep, or smear the **** off your ass.


----------



## flying pig

Tell you what, I ran a lot of cat, like more than 30,000 hrs worth, in lots of very dangerous situations. I've been around a lot of hoe brushing operations too. **** happens, but acting like an operator inside a metal box is suicidal for pushing over a snag makes you sound like you've got your panties in a bunch. I've made mistakes on a dozer, I had three 30+ inch spruce come over backwards over the top of my blade one day right onto the canopy on my D8 while I was walking a lease down one day. It's impossible to even look at the top of each tree when you are doing it, they do land on you and especially broken tops. We would walk down entire leases second gear full tilt, decelerate if we were worried about a tree coming over backwards or breaking and get back into it as soon as contact was made. I never bent a canopy sweep or damaged a FOPS in 11 years. The hoe mentioned above must have only been ROPS equipped, not FOPS. That tree should never have had a chance to gut that cab unless it was a lot larger than what I'm picturing. Even then you can cripple em up just like with a saw and convince them to move sideways to you. Should never be pulled straight back, even though by design an excavator is meant to pull not push (way more force on the stick cylinder pulling because of surface area). In huge trees I could see it being a real danger but not in anything under probably four feet on the butt. I've seen cats and hoes rolled with no visible damage to the Fops/rops. More danger for an operator lies in raking and piling operations in my opinion.

Madhatte this is in no way an attack on your guy, on you or what you are saying. I think BW is being a bit of a bed wetter. Stuff happens in the bush. You can't always foresee every danger. How you react when something goes sideways is what dictates whether you get hurt or worse or come away unscathed. Little bit of luck doesn't hurt either.


----------



## northmanlogging

as for one handed cutting or falling, here ya go buddy. about 4 min in


----------



## InfiniteJest

A nice day for some hi-banking.


----------



## Bwildered

rwoods said:


> I said I was moving on, but if you insist on a parting exchange - I did answer your questions and you don't like the answers. Whether or not something is very dangerous is not always the determining factor of whether to do it or not. If your ancestors thought and behave the way you suggest, you would be speaking a different language if you even existed at all. Ron


A simple yes or no is all that's needed, I can't understand doublespeak


----------



## Bwildered

northmanlogging said:


> Here I go again, last time promise...
> 
> Sometimes, a few put themselves at risk so that others can be safe.
> 
> As I've said before, I deal with what other folks can't or won't, meaning danger trees, close quarter work near houses/buildings etc, I and those like me, know and understand the risk, accept it as what needs done to make others safer, mitigate as much of the risk as possible and get the job done. When a tree needs down, it needs down for a reason, Madhatte's work is crowded with 18-22 year old idiots, stuffed in cracker box housing, with limited funds for silly things like trees. If they didn't take the time to deal with it someone innocent likely would have been killed by it. Flagging "danger trees" and avoiding them works when you have 400 acres to play in, not when you have 50 feet.
> 
> Be it crooked cuts, shoving with machines underweight for the job, whatever. While there is a lot of death and dismemberment in logging, its from one of 2 reasons, not knowing or becoming complacent to the dangers, I.E. real young and dumb or just old enough to start thinking its routine.
> 
> In the end Loggers (and tree service/arborists) put our lives at risk so you can shelter your ass while you sleep, or smear the **** off your ass.


You are a funny rotund chap aren't you , you are that full of yourself you think nobody works in the timber industry to a safe standard, well I do work & almost make a living in the industry & I do work to a fairly safe standard, you can make up any old excuses for some of the stuff you do but it's only backyard gypo stuff which goes on in every industry. I've worn out those excuses five times over from when I used to use them, I'm a reformed gypo.


----------



## Bwildered

northmanlogging said:


> as for one handed cutting or falling, here ya go buddy. about 4 min in



Why didn't you split the fork down to waist height & not have to do all the other dodgy stuff?
That balsa wood isn't that hard you know.


----------



## woodfarmer

So this thread has gone way sideways since I posted for opinions on the ash I was falling. I am beginning to understand how the ash tree behaves differently than maple and beech.
A few more stumps


----------



## madhatte

flying pig said:


> The hoe mentioned above must have only been ROPS equipped, not FOPS. That tree should never have had a chance to gut that cab unless it was a lot larger than what I'm picturing. Even then you can cripple em up just like with a saw and convince them to move sideways to you.



Full disclosure: the machine was a Gradall with the big rotating claw, and he was pushing. It was equipped with full ROPS/FOPS, but it was the FOPS that took this hit. The metal was undamaged. Only the glass was broken, and that because of the pressure change in the sealed cab. It was a big, heavy, half-rotten DF, and I had already crippled it.



Bwildered said:


> That balsa wood isn't that hard you know.



Have you ever even seen a Douglas-Fir?


----------



## rwoods

woodfarmer said:


> So this thread has gone way sideways since I posted for opinions on the ash I was falling. I am beginning to understand how the ash tree behaves differently than maple and beech.
> A few more stumps



Well now we know who’s fault it was this thread when sideways. Just kidding.

Ron


----------



## rico11764




----------



## woodfarmer

Yes rw, you can blame me. The top one I bored, the middle one you can see ash borer holes top and bottom of the stump.


----------



## Skeans

There's this thing called hazard trees and then you have wild life BW trees I think that's what he's getting confused on you all are cutting his nesting spot, this might explain why he keeps trying to dive bomb us.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Bwildered

rico11764 said:


> View attachment 620084
> View attachment 620085
> View attachment 620086
> View attachment 620089
> View attachment 620092
> View attachment 620093


Good one Rico if you want I'll send you an old scull bucket & earplugs, you'd thank me for the earplugs in 20 years time.


----------



## flying pig

I could see that happening. Especially if it's an integrated Fops/rops set up. Our excavators here have a forestry canopy outside of the factory ROPS. On ours the windows won't go unless the cab gets hit. That being said, I did once blow the window out of my cat by parking it facing north and closing the west facing door with the east facing door open. We had a strong gusting wind that day and it exploded.

Our excavators do usually use a grilled of escape hatch above the sunroof, in case the operator needs a speedy top exit if he falls through a frozen swamp etc. A top could pretty easily come through there if you were really unlucky


----------



## Bwildered

madhatte said:


> Have you ever even seen a Douglas-Fir?


Yes we get ship loads of them sawn up from NZ & canadia, slightly harder than crapola pine. I don't even think we have a hardwood that's as soft as it.


----------



## rico11764

Bwildered said:


> Good one Rico if you want I'll send you an old scull bucket & earplugs, you'd thank me for the earplugs in 20 years time.


Thanks for the offer, but I have a skull bucket that I wear from time to time (page 601 of this thread). I'm in my mid 50's and have been in this game since I was 15 and have never worn earplugs. Guess my ears are made out of old whale-bone or something because my hearing is still great! Go figure?


----------



## Bwildered

Skeans said:


> There's this thing called hazard trees and then you have wild life BW trees I think that's what he's getting confused on you all are cutting his nesting spot, this might explain why he keeps trying to dive bomb us.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


You guys have perfected the geterdone & killed at any cost system over a longer period than us, we're merely learners when it comes to that


----------



## Bwildered

rico11764 said:


> Thanks for the offer, but I have a skull bucket that I wear from time to time (page 601 of this thread). I'm in my mid 50's and have been in this game since I was 15 and have never worn earplugs. Guess my ears are made out of old whale-bone or something because my hearing is still great!


Mines half gone in one side, from shooting I'd say because I've always worn ear protection while cutting & operationing machinery, I'd hate to lose the rest of it


----------



## Skeans

Bwildered said:


> You guys have perfected the geterdone & killed at any cost system over a longer period than us, we're merely learners when it come to that


Are you so sure about that? Last time I checked you guys have lost more guys in the woods last year then we did. I do company work and trust me it's safety first hell we were talking to the clear cut Forester today and they only have one part time faller for two tree farms before last year it was 4 full time. And before the levelers fallers ruled yes some guys got hurt or killed I've known a few of each but nothing like you are down there. To another point we all have rules we have but they all say with best judgement of the situation at hand, even you guys do I've sat through a couple days of meeting for safety from some of your blokes down there.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## northmanlogging

Sort of off topic I know, But I wonder if folks realize that the whole labor and industries, industrial workers insurance stuff, started right here in Washington State?

We lost like over 100 men in one year, 196? and folks said enough is enough. Poof hard hats required, first aid required, first aid training required etc...

We still lose men out here, but its down a lot, couple years ago it was pretty bad at i think 12, but nothing like the days of yore. And i think we put a **** load more wood on the ground then AU or NZ combined, especially if you combine OR CA and WA

Luckily our labor laws haven't gotten ridiculous like in some other countries, where it seems they stress on having the "right" PPE over the right frame of mind.

Hard hats and steel toes only stop the little ****, big branches and whatnot are going to kill you regardless of what color yer T shirt is or if your hard hat has a flippy face mask and ear muffs.

Some countries stress training, but they seem to focus on the "proper" way to cut, once again setting in stone that every tree is cut one way... these are living things we are dealing with, organic if you will, every tree is different, every piece of ground is different, not being able to adapt and overcome will get you killed or sidelined


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## InfiniteJest

Go to work for the week and it ain't hardly the pic page anymore when I get back. 

Happy holidays.


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## Stowe Boy

Rico, I appreciate all the pictures and videos that you post. 

The same (my appreciation) goes for all the others that post pictures and videos. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Skeans

InfiniteJest said:


> View attachment 620131
> 
> 
> Go to work for the week and it ain't hardly the pic page anymore when I get back.
> 
> Happy holidays.


That's a cool setup all it's missing is the moving cab that lifts and tilts.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## KiwiBro

northmanlogging said:


> Sort of off topic I know, But I wonder if folks realize that the whole labor and industries, industrial workers insurance stuff, started right here in Washington State?
> 
> We lost like over 100 men in one year, 196? and folks said enough is enough. Poof hard hats required, first aid required, first aid training required etc...
> 
> We still lose men out here, but its down a lot, couple years ago it was pretty bad at i think 12, but nothing like the days of yore. And i think we put a **** load more wood on the ground then AU or NZ combined, especially if you combine OR CA and WA
> 
> Luckily our labor laws haven't gotten ridiculous like in some other countries, where it seems they stress on having the "right" PPE over the right frame of mind.
> 
> Hard hats and steel toes only stop the little ****, big branches and whatnot are going to kill you regardless of what color yer T shirt is or if your hard hat has a flippy face mask and ear muffs.
> 
> Some countries stress training, but they seem to focus on the "proper" way to cut, once again setting in stone that every tree is cut one way... these are living things we are dealing with, organic if you will, every tree is different, every piece of ground is different, not being able to adapt and overcome will get you killed or sidelined


I reckon we'll eventually go almost full circle.

For now, they target the low-hanging fruit. Rather than adequate investment in apprenticeships/on the job mentoring and appraisal on a day to day basis by experienced/respected pros, etc, they go with what's easy to prescribe and test. It's a start but by no means the silver bullet the safety industry pitches it as.

Kinda funny how the old-timers ways of bringing their or someone else's good kids through the ranks slowly but surely with enough time to weed out or redirect those who won't make the cut and promote the worthy on to more risky/responsible roles , will eventually be considered self-evidently sensible and given the respect it deserves for being an extremely worthwhile and sustainable way to keep people working safely in an inherently dangerous industry.


----------



## InfiniteJest

Skeans said:


> That's a cool setup all it's missing is the moving cab that lifts and tilts.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk




It's pretty sweet, the big guy bought two komatsu 400's. The one in the pic has a 70 foot jewel long reach boom, and the other one got jewel's yarder conversion. They move some wood.


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## Skeans

InfiniteJest said:


> It's pretty sweet, the big guy bought two komatsu 400's. The one in the pic has a 70 foot jewel long reach boom, and the other one got jewel's yarder conversion. They move some wood.
> 
> View attachment 620133


Bruce get those setup for you guys?
If so he's working here now, last I heard they were building some camera operated grapple carriage. http://www.summitattachments.com/products

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Bwildered

Skeans said:


> Are you so sure about that? Last time I checked you guys have lost more guys in the woods last year then we did. I do company work and trust me it's safety first hell we were talking to the clear cut Forester today and they only have one part time faller for two tree farms before last year it was 4 full time. And before the levelers fallers ruled yes some guys got hurt or killed I've known a few of each but nothing like you are down there. To another point we all have rules we have but they all say with best judgement of the situation at hand, even you guys do I've sat through a couple days of meeting for safety from some of your blokes down there.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Yes for certain, you guys lost 91 last year & we lost 3. Straya has the lowest workplace death rate of any developed nation, around 1 : 100,000, a fair few of us haven't a problem telling anyone to FO & go get someone else stupid enough to do something dangerous, or anything else as a matter of fact.


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## Bwildered

InfiniteJest said:


> It's pretty sweet, the big guy bought two komatsu 400's. The one in the pic has a 70 foot jewel long reach boom, and the other one got jewel's yarder conversion. They move some wood.
> 
> View attachment 620133


There're pretty good by the looks of it, they hardly left a blade of grass behind


----------



## Skeans

Bwildered said:


> Yes for certain, you guys lost 91 last year & we lost 3. Straya has the lowest workplace death rate of any developed nation, around 1 : 100,000, a fair few of us haven't a problem telling anyone to FO & go get someone else stupid enough to do something dangerous, or anything else as a matter of fact.


If you say so, but hey what's a guy dropping off a hill side with a cable no leveler or no true forestry machine now tell me who's the idiots now? You guys do plenty for mistakes and to be honest does your ministry tell you guys everything? Who knows I know this if you think you're so great then show us and how much of this is because you guys don't hand fall hand at all anymore vs here where we still have to on certain terrain? I know the guys that do the tethering they will tell the guys down there will come straight up a cliff with the machine where we can't do that OHSA has a fit. To us not always leaving the stump have you ever been on steep enough ground where you can't leave a stump before? My guess is no, I'll say this it's not much fun having to stay there but sometimes the safest place is to be at the stump no matter what. Personally experience I've been drilled in the head and shoulder by a limb from a 45 degree angle up hill from the stump a 100 feet back guess what if I had stayed nothing would of happened.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Bwildered

Skeans said:


> If you say so, but hey what's a guy dropping off a hill side with a cable no leveler or no true forestry machine now tell me who's the idiots now? You guys do plenty for mistakes and to be honest does your ministry tell you guys everything? Who knows I know this if you think you're so great then show us and how much of this is because you guys don't hand fall hand at all anymore vs here where we still have to on certain terrain? I know the guys that do the tethering they will tell the guys down there will come straight up a cliff with the machine where we can't do that OHSA has a fit. To us not always leaving the stump have you ever been on steep enough ground where you can't leave a stump before? My guess is no, I'll say this it's not much fun having to stay there but sometimes the safest place is to be at the stump no matter what. Personally experience I've been drilled in the head and shoulder by a limb from a 45 degree angle up hill from the stump a 100 feet back guess what if I had stayed nothing would of happened.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


You are clearly misinformed, we do hand fall & we do have steep country, our workplace laws are made in conjunction & consultation with those in the industry, some things are non negotiable though because to do them is suicide, mechanisation is the preferred method on crown / public lands but the private property sector production is almost that of crown & that's where hand falling is in the majority, I forget the exact numbers but a very high percentage of Faller deaths happen within around 6 meters of the stump. Sure I have fallen on steep country, that's just the general coastal range conditions where I am & no I have never ever stayed at the stump, I value my life more than doing that, a guy I went to school with who was a very experienced Faller died by not having an escape route in a dead end gully, the investigation found he shouldn't have even attempted to fall the marked tree & he should have left it, because it was marked he must have thought he had to fall it or get the sack.


----------



## bitzer

Bwildered said:


> There're pretty good by the looks of it, they hardly left a blade of grass behind



Looks like rock and brush to me. Not much grass in that country. You're getting to be like my 12 year old daughter. Argues with anything no matter what. I still haven't seen a new stump from you. Something we can grade and adjust for your skill level.


----------



## northmanlogging

https://www.safeworkaustralia.gov.a...rch/statistics/fatalities/fatality-statistics

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/cfoi.pdf

ahem... AU 46 deaths

USA 21 

get yer fact straight BW and there is certainly a lot more loggers in the US then AU


----------



## rico11764

Stowe Boy said:


> Rico, I appreciate all the pictures and videos that you post.
> 
> The same (my appreciation) goes for all the others that post pictures and videos.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks Stowe Boy. I appreciate the fact that you appreciate my pics and vids? Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all. Hugs all around gentlemen!


----------



## rwoods

InfiniteJest said:


> View attachment 620131
> 
> 
> Go to work for the week and it ain't hardly the pic page anymore when I get back.
> 
> Happy holidays.



My apologies.

Merry Christmas to you as well.

Ron


----------



## rico11764

KiwiBro said:


> I reckon we'll eventually go almost full circle.
> 
> 
> Kinda funny how the old-timers ways of bringing their or someone else's good kids through the ranks slowly but surely with enough time to weed out or redirect those who won't make the cut and promote the worthy on to more risky/responsible roles , will eventually be considered self-evidently sensible and given the respect it deserves for being an extremely worthwhile and sustainable way to keep people working safely in an inherently dangerous industry.



Great post. Thats how its done and should be done!


----------



## Bwildered

northmanlogging said:


> https://www.safeworkaustralia.gov.a...rch/statistics/fatalities/fatality-statistics
> 
> https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/cfoi.pdf
> 
> ahem... AU 46 deaths
> 
> USA 21
> 
> get yer fact straight BW and there is certainly a lot more loggers in the US then AU


Your AU numbers are for forestry, fishing & agriculture combined you have to look a bit further elsewhere to see the separate numbers, I can't find the exact reference to my quoted number but from the pic above you can see the breakdown which still includes those pesky fishermen, & we lose a few every year. your gotcha moment is just egg on your face. Your US 21 is a made up dream as anyone can clearly see its 91


----------



## Bwildered

bitzer said:


> Looks like rock and brush to me. Not much grass in that country. You're getting to be like my 12 year old daughter. Argues with anything no matter what. I still haven't seen a new stump from you. Something we can grade and adjust for your skill level.


My comment was a joke , are you wound up too tight or sumtin


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## bitzer

Bwildered said:


> My comment was a joke , are you wound up too tight or sumtin


Stump?


----------



## Bwildered

bitzer said:


> Stump?


Of course, I don't think it will change your outlook though


----------



## Bwildered

Here you go , that's a 320mm long Samoan safety boot for reference


----------



## Bwildered

rico11764 said:


> Great post. Thats how its done and should be done!


Unfortunately those days are almost completely gone. The whole commerce system has been manipulated to where those that produce the most, with the most risk, investment & skill level who used to make a decent living have been used by the greedy chair polishers with no consciousness or remorse of those they exploit & profit from to make immense wealth.


----------



## bitzer

Bwildered said:


> View attachment 620292
> Here you go , that's a 320mm long Samoan safety boot for reference




And here I thought you kept a full hinge and cut by the books Reggie. The one on the left you faced to the right then changed your mind? Kinda squirrelly. Those old Navy flip flops?


----------



## hseII

flying pig said:


> Tell you what, I ran a lot of cat, like more than 30,000 hrs worth, in lots of very dangerous situations. I've been around a lot of hoe brushing operations too. **** happens, but acting like an operator inside a metal box is suicidal for pushing over a snag makes you sound like you've got your panties in a bunch. I've made mistakes on a dozer, I had three 30+ inch spruce come over backwards over the top of my blade one day right onto the canopy on my D8 while I was walking a lease down one day. It's impossible to even look at the top of each tree when you are doing it, they do land on you and especially broken tops. We would walk down entire leases second gear full tilt, decelerate if we were worried about a tree coming over backwards or breaking and get back into it as soon as contact was made. I never bent a canopy sweep or damaged a FOPS in 11 years. The hoe mentioned above must have only been ROPS equipped, not FOPS. That tree should never have had a chance to gut that cab unless it was a lot larger than what I'm picturing. Even then you can cripple em up just like with a saw and convince them to move sideways to you. Should never be pulled straight back, even though by design an excavator is meant to pull not push (way more force on the stick cylinder pulling because of surface area). In huge trees I could see it being a real danger but not in anything under probably four feet on the butt. I've seen cats and hoes rolled with no visible damage to the Fops/rops. More danger for an operator lies in raking and piling operations in my opinion.
> 
> Madhatte this is in no way an attack on your guy, on you or what you are saying. I think BW is being a bit of a bed wetter. Stuff happens in the bush. You can't always foresee every danger. How you react when something goes sideways is what dictates whether you get hurt or worse or come away unscathed. Little bit of luck doesn't hurt either.



We have put a cable in a tree & pulled with a Hoe when the Tree couldn’t be accessed from behind the lay. “Gently Bentley”, as my old Czech friend would say.


----------



## rico11764

Bwildered said:


> Unfortunately those days are almost completely gone. The whole commerce system has been manipulated to where those that produce the most, with the most risk, investment & skill level who used to make a decent living have been used by the greedy chair polishers with no consciousness or remorse of those they exploit & profit from to make immense wealth.


Preaching to the choir brother. Merry Christmas Mr. B Wildered


----------



## Bwildered

bitzer said:


> And here I thought you kept a full hinge and cut by the books Reggie. The one on the left you faced to the right then changed your mind? Kinda squirrelly. Those old Navy flip flops?


No there was a full hinge I trimmed the side that had long fibres still on it to make it safer to fall the next part of the tree, I had to winch it over first because it was limb tied with the bigger bole & some really big dead limbs in the heads of both, I also had to rip down around 4' of the fork between the two. I only use a 25" bar so it not easy to get your plunge cuts to line up on from each the side of the butt when the main stem is still in the way, if you're sharp you will pick up why there would have been long fibres on only one side of the stump.


----------



## rico11764

A stumpie for ya'.


----------



## northmanlogging

rico11764 said:


> A stumpie for ya'.
> 
> View attachment 620348



Tis a nice clean stump.


----------



## northmanlogging

Further proving my theory that some folks are functionally illiterate.

There is a difference between fatalities per 100000 and actual fatalities.


----------



## Bwildered

rico11764 said:


> A stumpie for ya'.
> 
> View attachment 620348


Now that is a good hinge


----------



## rico11764

northmanlogging said:


> Tis a nice clean stump.


Thanks man. I have been lurking around this thread for a while and have really enjoyed your posts and pics! I don't know if you have ever had the pleasure of cutting Redwood but it's like cheating. Cuts like butter and you can make it do pretty much anything.


----------



## Bwildered

Y


northmanlogging said:


> Further proving my theory that some folks are functionally illiterate.
> 
> There is a difference between fatalities per 100000 and actual fatalities.


Like the 91 deaths quoted & the 135.9 deaths per 100,000 in that industry from your own source. The orange bars in the graph are how many actually died, the blue bars are fatal injury rate per 100,000. The bottom written part specifically states what the bars on the graph show.
You certainly a strange perception of who is functionality illiterate, I'll post up the picture again, really big this time so you can't miss it. The bottom line is you guys die at (ten times) a higher incidence rate & numbers in logging than we do & I'm not at all surprised when I see videos of some of you guys in action.


----------



## northmanlogging

rico11764 said:


> Thanks man. I have been lurking around this thread for a while and have really enjoyed your posts and pics! I don't know if you have ever had the pleasure of cutting Redwood but it's like cheating. Cuts like butter and you can make it do pretty much anything.


I've cut one... one tree...

Acts a lot like red ceder, but with really annoying bark, and not so much center rot. Felt like it had better hold wood though.


----------



## Trx250r180

Bwildered said:


> No there was a full hinge I trimmed the side that had long fibres still on it to make it safer to fall the next part of the tree, I had to winch it over first because it was limb tied with the bigger bole & some really big dead limbs in the heads of both, I also had to rip down around 4' of the fork between the two. I only use a 25" bar so it not easy to get your plunge cuts to line up on from each the side of the butt when the main stem is still in the way, if you're sharp you will pick up why there would have been long fibres on only one side of the stump.


I am not a logger but want to ask why you use a 25 inch bar in a big tree ? That dont seem safe to me as making all my cuts from one spot. I seen lot of guys run 20 inch also and walk around the tree for a back cut , mostly east coast though. Trees must not chair out like they do here i take it ?


----------



## Skeans

You know what uncle BW can kiss our butts because he's not worth it he couldn't live or fall with us any day of the week, yes Reggie I'm calling your old as ass out I know guys in their 80's that cut guess what Imagine This hazard dangerous trees DBag.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## KiwiBro

Bwildered said:


> Unfortunately those days are almost completely gone. The whole commerce system has been manipulated to where those that produce the most, with the most risk, investment & skill level who used to make a decent living have been used by the greedy chair polishers with no consciousness or remorse of those they exploit & profit from to make immense wealth.


If producers can hold on long enough or were simply lucky enough to be born in the right decade/s, their time in the sun, earning exactly what they are worth, not what asswipes further up the chain can get away with, will come back around. Usually after a catastrophic reset that wipe enough parasites off the teat.


----------



## Bwildered

Trx250r180 said:


> I am not a logger but want to ask why you use a 25 inch bar in a big tree ? That dont seem safe to me as making all my cuts from one spot. I seen lot of guys run 20 inch also and walk around the tree for a back cut , mostly east coast though. Trees must not chair out like they do here i take it ?


We use shorter bars because most of the trees are never over 2 bar lengths in diameter & my ms660 wont cut efficiently with much more bar length, it's the fibrous bark that pinches the chain when cut & saps the power then the hardness & density of the timber finishes off the rest of the power, when I first started the norm was 076 & 3120's with 30" bars for the bigger stuff & 056's with a 25" bars for the usual
I don't know what the length of a bar has to do with a tree slabbing up or not.


----------



## Bwildered

Skeans said:


> You know what uncle BW can kiss our butts because he's not worth it he couldn't live or fall with us any day of the week, yes Reggie I'm calling your old as ass out I know guys in their 80's that cut guess what Imagine This hazard dangerous trees DBag.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


what are you on about? From what I can gather you pinch your saw on every tree you fall on steep country then have to one handedly hold onto it to save it & your arse from being clobbered while hanging around at the stump, you can gladly have that all to your own , I would like to see a video of it though.


----------



## Bwildered

Here's a couple more


----------



## bitzer

Why do you leave such a thick hinge Reggie? I would think that super hard wood would chair more easily. Why not bore the heart wood from the face when you can see what you're doing? Not the prettiest I've seen. If not cutting for production and the way you talk they should be damn near perfect.


----------



## bitzer

rico11764 said:


> A stumpie for ya'.
> 
> View attachment 620348


Nice stump. What's with the conventional faces all the time? I mean you do good. Just curious. Personally I like how a tree comes off the stump better with a Humboldt.


----------



## Bwildered

bitzer said:


> Why do you leave such a thick hinge Reggie? I would think that super hard wood would chair more easily. Why not bore the heart wood from the face when you can see what you're doing? Not the prettiest I've seen. If not cutting for production and the way you talk they should be damn near perfect.


Well when they start to go there's no need to hang around the stump and cut anymore, it's just not the place to be.
In my local area there's only a couple of species that slab up easily, so you just are a little more careful with them , if you hear them popping on the face cut I'll bore them from the hinge back. I cut to order so it's not often I can dawdle along as I often have the weather & time to beat.
As it was a couple of months ago I can't for the life of me remember why I bored the middle of the hinge out of that stump.


----------



## Bwildered

I can get the stump lower with a conventional cut, more timber & it doesn't hinder machinery for access by getting hung up on them


----------



## Trx250r180

Bwildered said:


> We use shorter bars because most of the trees are never over 2 bar lengths in diameter & my ms660 wont cut efficiently with much more bar length, it's the fibrous bark that pinches the chain when cut & saps the power then the hardness & density of the timber finishes off the rest of the power, when I first started the norm was 076 & 3120's with 30" bars for the bigger stuff & 056's with a 25" bars for the usual
> I don't know what the length of a bar has to do with a tree slabbing up or not.


I can get away with a 70-75 cc saw that has been hopped up with a 32 inch bar if use skip chain on the wood around here ,hardwoods or softwoods ,just have to sharpen the chain right , I have never been around the other woods like oaks so i cant say if my setup would work for what you do ,the longer bar feels safer to me in small stuff ,keeps my face further away from the tree in smaller stuff ,our trees blow up and barberchair if don't cut them right ,there's many ways to do the same thing ,i just don't feel safe walking behind a tree once the face is in ,do you have wrap handlebars or regular half wraps ?


----------



## rico11764

northmanlogging said:


> I've cut one... one tree...
> 
> Acts a lot like red ceder, but with really annoying bark, and not so much center rot. Felt like it had better hold wood though.


Yea the bark can be a pain and it swells up at certain times of the year which really makes it a nightmare. The hinge (hold wood) is the best.


----------



## northmanlogging

rico11764 said:


> Yea the bark can be a pain and it swells this time of year which really makes it a nightmare. The hinge (hold wood) is the best.


cut that one in the heat of summer, bark was just really thick and fuzzy, made me itch more then I preffer.

Wouldn't mind trucking south to spend a couple days tipping Reds and inland Fir though. If the money was right.


----------



## northmanlogging

On the subject of short bars, since its obviously come up.

Why is it that the guys who've never really tried it out, on a modern saw, or any saw, nay say the long bar?

But most of those that gave it a chance are all for it?


----------



## rico11764

bitzer said:


> Nice stump. What's with the conventional faces all the time? I mean you do good. Just curious. Personally I like how a tree comes off the stump better with a Humboldt.


I know, what the heck is a Norcal Boy doing cutting conventional. Its just how I was brought up and has always been more comfortable and accurate for me. I cut my fair share of Humboldt's back in the day, but my production days are long behind me so I do as I please these days. I also do a whole lot of climbing and have always found conventionals to be much easier at heights.


----------



## rico11764

northmanlogging said:


> cut that one in the heat of summer, bark was just really thick and fuzzy, made me itch more then I preffer.
> 
> Wouldn't mind trucking south to spend a couple days tipping Reds and inland Fir though. If the money was right.


$. What the heck is that?


----------



## bitzer

Bwildered said:


> Well when they start to go there's no need to hang around the stump and cut anymore, it's just not the place to be.
> In my local area there's only a couple of species that slab up easily, so you just are a little more careful with them , if you hear them popping on the face cut I'll bore them from the hinge back. I cut to order so it's not often I can dawdle along as I often have the weather & time to beat.
> As it was a couple of months ago I can't for the life of me remember why I bored the middle of the hinge out of that stump.


Geez Reggie it's like we're having a normal conversation now. You ever try a longer bar with skip chain on a newer saw? I can't run full comp on a 32" bar on a 90cc saw in hardwood. It binds up if the drags are anywhere you need them to be and personally I like my saw to dig without effort. I've put time in on bars from 16"-36" and I've settled on 32" as my production bar. It's amazing the reach and different things you can do with a longer bar. Also keeps you an extra step away from danger.


----------



## northmanlogging

rico11764 said:


> $. What the heck is that?


Wut makes the werld go round son...

Grease my palm and there's not much I won't do


----------



## rico11764

northmanlogging said:


> Wut makes the werld go round son...
> 
> Grease my palm and there's not much I won't do


Son? Now I appreciate the fact that you think I look young enough and handsome enough to be your son, but this mid-50's body going on 80 sure don't feel like anybody's "son".
Just playin" with you. I hope you and yours have a Merry Christmas!


----------



## northmanlogging

Called some old dude a kid once face to face, thought fer sure he was going to try and wup my ass or have a heart attack... maybe both


----------



## northmanlogging

Sure seems to be a bunch of bunched Y fronts here abouts lately...


----------



## rwoods

NM, thought the same thing. Pick almost any thread on any forum lately. Must be stress. Maybe should try some Duluth's. Commercials are awful funny. Ron


----------



## rico11764

rwoods said:


> NM, thought the same thing. Pick almost any thread on any forum lately. Must be stress. Maybe should try some Duluth's. Commercials are awful funny. Ron


Go commando. Problem solved, plus its cheaper than a new pair britches.


----------



## Bwildered

bitzer said:


> Geez Reggie it's like we're having a normal conversation now. You ever try a longer bar with skip chain on a newer saw? I can't run full comp on a 32" bar on a 90cc saw in hardwood. It binds up if the drags are anywhere you need them to be and personally I like my saw to dig without effort. I've put time in on bars from 16"-36" and I've settled on 32" as my production bar. It's amazing the reach and different things you can do with a longer bar. Also keeps you an extra step away from danger.


I've got longer bars on my older saws which I use to crosscut the larger downed salvage timber & I used to production fall with big saws 120cc+ and 30" - 36" bars and unless you're in consistently 1 meter + timber you can't get around as quick or as easily & cut as much, its subtropical here so the understory can be jungle like with vines & crap, then add the steepness & heat you're looking at having the most efficient system to lug around, I don't think you can even imagine how hard our timber is or how the fibrous bark that covers it effects the cutting, some old guys will still axe the bark off over any cuts they are going to make.
As a matter of fact we used to and maybe still do export hardwood timber to the US which they used in the bows of freighters on your Great Lakes, it was used to reinforce behind the steel hulls at the pointy end so the ships could break ice during winter.


----------



## northmanlogging

rico11764 said:


> Go commando. Problem solved, plus its cheaper than a new pair britches.



Not sure I'm ok with that line of thought... 

Wise man once said

Woman goes commando, dude is thinkin I'ma gonna get some tonight

Dude goes commando, woman is thinkin I'ma gonna need to warsh them pants twice.


----------



## rico11764

northmanlogging said:


> Not sure I'm ok with that line of thought...
> 
> Wise man once said
> 
> Woman goes commando, dude is thinkin I'ma gonna get some tonight
> 
> Dude goes commando, woman is thinkin I'ma gonna need to warsh them pants twice.


That was one very wise man , and it kinda explains why my pants always smell so gawd awful.


----------



## bitzer

Bwildered said:


> I've got longer bars on my older saws which I use to crosscut the larger downed salvage timber & I used to production fall with big saws 120cc+ and 30" - 36" bars and unless you're in consistently 1 meter + timber you can't get around as quick or as easily & cut as much, its subtropical here so the understory can be jungle like with vines & crap, then add the steepness & heat you're looking at having the most efficient system to lug around, I don't think you can even imagine how hard our timber is or how the fibrous bark that covers it effects the cutting, some old guys will still axe the bark off over any cuts they are going to make.
> As a matter of fact we used to and maybe still do export hardwood timber to the US which they used in the bows of freighters on your Great Lakes, it was used to reinforce behind the steel hulls at the pointy end so the ships could break ice during winter.



Well I guess you use what you think works. I don't doubt that about the ships. I live about 15 miles off of lake Michigan. merry Christmas Reggie.


----------



## bitzer

rwoods said:


> NM, thought the same thing. Pick almost any thread on any forum lately. Must be stress. Maybe should try some Duluth's. Commercials are awful funny. Ron




Ron you're a good voice of reason around here. We just need the good doctor back for some shennigans and we'd be all set.


----------



## rwoods

I miss Jon too. Don’t know if he has now cut down every tree on his place or the wife won’ t start his saws for him anymore. 

Merry Christmas, 

Ron


----------



## Gologit

I think a lot of us would like to see Jon back here. I hope things are going well for him.


----------



## woodfarmer

You can see the damage has been done, these Ash are up over 20" now and will be coming down soon.


----------



## madhatte

Arggh, EAB is no bueno. It hasn't hit here yet and we're hoping it won't. We do have the SOD but our white oaks are immune (Q. garryana); however, our bigleaf maples aren't and quite a few have perished. So far, it's limited to a few river drainages.



Gologit said:


> I think a lot of us would like to see Jon back here. I hope things are going well for him.



Agreed!


----------



## edwardo

northmanlogging said:


> Called some old dude a kid once face to face, thought fer sure he was going to try and wup my ass or have a heart attack... maybe both


Speaking of kids...


----------



## edwardo

Every once & a while I get to fall a tree. I’m saving up for a steep hillside littered with old growth.


----------



## woodfarmer

Well today I tried Logger Wades triple hinge. The tree was slightly leaning in that direction but I wanted it to go further right, which it did.
I gutted the face first.
I probably would have had the same result banging wedges, but I'll never know now.


----------



## madhatte

I think you want your vertical cuts to go below your face so that the fibers can bend rather than break all the way to where the face is closed. It's really a variation on a siz.


----------



## edwardo

Logger wade does not impress me at all. I’m pretty easy to impress too..


----------



## edwardo

woodfarmer said:


> View attachment 621408
> View attachment 621409
> View attachment 621410
> View attachment 621411
> View attachment 621412
> View attachment 621413
> Well today I tried Logger Wades triple hinge. The tree was slightly leaning in that direction but I wanted it to go further right, which it did.
> I gutted the face first.
> I probably would have had the same result banging wedges, but I'll never know now.



Quite the bypass you got there on your uphill side, you’ll never pull one too far like that unless there’s physics I’m ignorant to!


----------



## lfnh

Don;t know if that dutchy bypass was part of Logger Wades lesson, but seems like getting those face cuts cleaned up would be a better idea than the fancy cutting.
(little file work on those cutters might save some gas -

fwiw


----------



## bitzer

Wood farmer- if you want to swing a tree don't watch logger Wade videos. Cut the low side/far side off. Keep the near side intact and open. Watch the top as she comes around and cut accordingly. If its going to go fast throw a snipe on the stump to help keep it moving and take the pressure off of it as the face closes. I swing em all day by simple dutchmans. Typically you need more cuts then that when you're really trying to pull something.


----------



## woodfarmer

I was just messing around to see if I could re-create LW’s magic. I don’t regularly cut like that or bore cut for that matter.


----------



## bitzer

woodfarmer said:


> I was just messing around to see if I could re-create LW’s magic. I don’t regularly cut like that or bore cut for that matter.


I hope you mean "magic" as in ha ha ha "magic." Cuz that good ole boy ain't pulling any rabbits out of hats for me.


----------



## woodfarmer

edwardo said:


> Quite the bypass you got there on your uphill side, you’ll never pull one too far like that unless there’s physics I’m ignorant to!


What do you mean by “bypass”?


----------



## woodfarmer

bitzer said:


> I hope you mean "magic" as in ha ha ha "magic." Cuz that good ole boy ain't pulling any rabbits out of hats for me.


What I’ve noticed in his videos is there seems to be a lot of room in the woods he cuts, if you look at my last picture with the log on the ground, you can see there isn’t a whole lot of room to drop a tree without getting hung up. There are a lot of massive soft maples with large crowns. Which happens regularly. bitz, are your woods fairly spacious?
I would like to learn to move a tree more than I can with wedges, if any of you guys ever get up this way. I’m straight north of Buffalo, you just have to go round the lake.


----------



## Skeans

woodfarmer said:


> What do you mean by “bypass”?


Dutchman or bypass is a cut in the face that will by pass your hinge basically you're just going deeper on your face on one side.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## bitzer

woodfarmer said:


> What I’ve noticed in his videos is there seems to be a lot of room in the woods he cuts, if you look at my last picture with the log on the ground, you can see there isn’t a whole lot of room to drop a tree without getting hung up. Which happens regularly. bitz, are your woods fairly spacious?



It depends on when it was cut last, woods type, etc. Typically when you're logging you get a hole open and then you can start throwing trees into that hole. It's your layout for the day. When youre cutting one species out of the woods, say ash, it can be difficult to get them thru the standing timber. There's tricks you can use like getting them free of the stump asap so they will roll thru the timber etc, but sometimes you get some pretty tight quarters in a select cut. It makes for a long day. My guess is he gets a big enough hole to video the one tree he has picked out for his shenanigans.


----------



## madhatte

bitzer said:


> My guess is he gets a big enough hole to video the one tree he has picked out for his shenanigans.



I bet you're right. Hadn't given it a moment of thought but this makes a lot of sense.


----------



## northmanlogging

woodfarmer said:


> What I’ve noticed in his videos is there seems to be a lot of room in the woods he cuts, if you look at my last picture with the log on the ground, you can see there isn’t a whole lot of room to drop a tree without getting hung up. There are a lot of massive soft maples with large crowns. Which happens regularly. bitz, are your woods fairly spacious?
> I would like to learn to move a tree more than I can with wedges, if any of you guys ever get up this way. I’m straight north of Buffalo, you just have to go round the lake.


Plan ahead a little bit, 4-5 trees in advance of what you're wanting to cut. Walk the woods and get an idea of the problem children.

Then its easy to work a plan around them.

But remember, best laid plans of Mice, are subject to change


----------



## woodfarmer

Skeans said:


> Dutchman or bypass is a cut in the face that will by pass your hinge basically you're just going deeper on your face on one side.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Can you pinpoint where in my pictures for me?
I put in my face cut, bored the center leaving about 4” on either side.
Then I made those 2 vertical cuts (what is called the high side correct?)
Then I went to the far side(low side) and worked my way around to the triple hinge and over she went.
I appreciate all the input as I don’t regularly swing trees, I usually have the tractor and winch with me but I put the darn snowblower on the tractor as we were supposed to get a big snowfall which didn’t happen, that’s another story.


----------



## KiwiBro

Logger Wade does seem to know how to run lots of different equipment, and I admire how he and his team hold down the workloads - he seems to be taking it from standing wood to milled products. That's a bunch of different skill sets far removed from logging. He'll screw up and won't be shy about posting it to youtube. I like that.

He does take a few risks that I wouldn't recommend, and some of his cutting isn't the sort to hold aloft as a good example for others to follow, but he's getting 'er done. Which is far more than at least me at the mo'. 

I enjoyed his sawmill videos and all the repairs and upgrades he is doing to the mill.


----------



## edwardo

woodfarmer said:


> What do you mean by “bypass”?


See where you have flat kerf in between your holding wood & where your face opens up? That’s a bypass. The kerf is gonna close prematurely & you’ll be pulling that wood instead of letting it bend.


----------



## Gologit

woodfarmer said:


> I appreciate all the input as I don’t regularly swing trees, I usually have the tractor and winch with me but I put the darn snowblower on the tractor as we were supposed to get a big snowfall which didn’t happen, that’s another story.



If you want excellent  examples of how to do specialty cuts or just falling in general check out this guy:




He's one of the best I've ever seen.


----------



## woodfarmer

I was aiming for the tall tree on the right, but it caught the branch of the big soft maple and slid down it, was able to pull it down with a little help from the Case


----------



## bitzer

Gologit said:


> If you want excellent  examples of how to do specialty cuts or just falling in general check out this guy:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He's one of the best I've ever seen.




Yep Jack's the man. Ive learned a lot from him. Never realized how old he was until he mentioned how long he's been cutting. I think he said he caught the tail end of the old growth in the 80s.


----------



## northmanlogging

Hotsaws, and TarzanTree... can't go wrong

Would any of us know how to pull off a siswheel without either one of them guys? except maybe Bob...


----------



## flying pig

No logging for us the last few days. -48*C with the windchill. Be like trying to knock over a several ton icicle without breaking it. We're going to try to do some tomorrow regardless of the temperature, there won't be many more days off of our regular day jobs for quite a while in the new year...

We had one final on our crawler freeze since the last time we ran it. May need resealed in the spring. So we started a fire under it and got it thawed.

Do any of you guys have any special tips or tricks for cold weather falling?


----------



## woodfarmer

Had to break out the big equipment today, it pulls pretty good in about 8" of snow. Trail is getting packed down. The larger logs will wait for the tractor. 


It's been a steady -20's celcius or -4 Fred.


----------



## Ronaldo

woodfarmer said:


> Had to break out the big equipment today, it pulls pretty good in about 8" of snow. Trail is getting packed down. The larger logs will wait for the tractor. View attachment 621953
> View attachment 621954
> View attachment 621955
> It's been a steady -20's celcius or -4 Fred.


Nice Ash trees. Primarily for firewood or you doing some milling? Those log arches are amazing aren't they.


----------



## woodfarmer

The good logs will go to the mill and the rest for firewood. They take good two sides and down to 11” on the tip.


----------



## Skeans

woodfarmer said:


> The good logs will go to the mill and the rest for firewood. They take good two sides and down to 11” on the tip.


Are you guys allowed to leave the face on the logs?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## woodfarmer

6” is pretty standard


----------



## lfnh

wood - not picking on you, but bypass face cuts can make for some bad near misses.
barber chairing and stall out when the stick is in motion and hits that false kerf shelf are just two.
that last ash butt and stump has what appears to be a fracture starting in lower left of butt, (right in your picture)
at corner of face.
scaler will probly dock that log or cull it if that is a fracture.

keep looking up,
hth


----------



## edwardo

woodfarmer said:


> 6” is pretty standard


Jew end up understand what I was saying about the bypass?


----------



## woodfarmer

No, I’m still not getting it. There is no bypass when I put my face notch in, I didn’t cross over the bottom cut with the top angle cut.
then I start the back cut on the far left side and bring it around. Put a wedge in, then chased the hinge using the top of the bar.

Ifnh, is the kerf shelf you mention, the four inches in the sapwood next to the holding wood on the log? Left is standing behind the stump as in the picture. Are you saying I create this when doing my back cut?
I used to frame so to me “kerf” is the width of the saw blade on the back cut.
The fracture I see is in the bottom right where the butt is sitting on the stump, is that what your referring to?


----------



## edwardo

If I could do some computer things with this cellphone I’d do a paint on it. It’s easy to see the bypass on the pull side. Look how the wood popped..


----------



## Skeans

Here's a swing or by pass needed to make the lay for effective grapple cat yarding.






Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## hseII

Trx250r180 said:


> I can get away with a 70-75 cc saw that has been hopped up with a 32 inch bar if use skip chain on the wood around here ,hardwoods or softwoods ,just have to sharpen the chain right , I have never been around the other woods like oaks so i cant say if my setup would work for what you do ,the longer bar feels safer to me in small stuff ,keeps my face further away from the tree in smaller stuff ,our trees blow up and barberchair if don't cut them right ,there's many ways to do the same thing ,i just don't feel safe walking behind a tree once the face is in ,do you have wrap handlebars or regular half wraps ?



Works Good On Georgia Hardwood Too.


----------



## hseII

northmanlogging said:


> On the subject of short bars, since its obviously come up.
> 
> Why is it that the guys who've never really tried it out, on a modern saw, or any saw, nay say the long bar?
> 
> But most of those that gave it a chance are all for it?



I think Experience encourages Logic, where inexperience hugs The Side of Resisting Change.


----------



## lfnh

Wood-
Lower Right in your pic
Ash oaks soft maple can fracture and chair blinding quick esp sub zero also look out for frost fractures


----------



## woodfarmer

Skeans said:


> Here's a swing or by pass needed to make the lay for effective grapple cat yarding.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Do you do a standard back cut from the back of the tree to the hinge, I couldn’t tell in hotsaws video if he did anything special on the back cut?


----------



## Skeans

woodfarmer said:


> Do you do a standard back cut from the back of the tree to the hinge, I couldn’t tell in hotsaws video if he did anything special on the back cut?


Depends on the tree some require more work to chase then others. Typically I'll start on the high side walk over to the low side with the nose edge it up then finish whatever I can from the high side.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## edwardo

woodfarmer said:


> No, I’m still not getting it. There is no bypass when I put my face notch in, I didn’t cross over the bottom cut with the top angle cut.
> then I start the back cut on the far left side and bring it around. Put a wedge in, then chased the hinge using the top of the bar.
> 
> Ifnh, is the kerf shelf you mention, the four inches in the sapwood next to the holding wood on the log? Left is standing behind the stump as in the picture. Are you saying I create this when doing my back cut?
> I used to frame so to me “kerf” is the width of the saw blade on the back cut.
> The fracture I see is in the bottom right where the butt is sitting on the stump, is that what your referring to?



Make a face cut & take a picture.


----------



## edwardo

Skeans said:


> Depends on the tree some require more work to chase then others. Typically I'll start on the high side walk over to the high side with the nose edge it up then finish whatever I can from the high side.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


The low sides must hate you..


----------



## Skeans

edwardo said:


> The low sides must hate you..


Not really we do it all the time with a 32 or 36 on oversize walk the nose around meet your cut then back to the high side not a huge deal.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## edwardo

Skeans said:


> Not really we do it all the time with a 32 or 36 on oversize walk the nose around meet your cut then back to the high side not a huge deal.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Review your previous statements for low sides.......


----------



## madhatte

northmanlogging said:


> Hotsaws, and TarzanTree... can't go wrong
> 
> Would any of us know how to pull off a siswheel without either one of them guys? except maybe Bob...



I had the good fortune of attending the Montana GTG in 2012, and the even better fortune of getting some actual instruction from Cody himself while there. That guy is so competent, and so humble, and such an excellent teacher that I can't help but want to master what I've learned and pass it on. Fortunately, I get a new fire crew every year, and every crew has one aspiring sawyer with the basics down who is ready to move past S-212 and learn to deal with problem trees. I wouldn't know 99% of what I know if it weren't for the fine folks here on AS, and I thank you all for the opportunity to give it back.


----------



## northmanlogging

hseII said:


> I think Experience encourages Logic, where inexperience hugs The Side of Resisting Change.



Not to be argumentative, but there are some that have the experience but seem unwilling to try new things, or just stubborn... or inexperience promotes a willingness to try new things just cause.

Confusing no?

And here I am going off on Tethering... wonk wonk wonk new fangled gadgetry wonk wonk wonk... I feel thats different some how though, in that its new tech and the bugs haven't begun to be worked out, so I'm just leary of spending loads of money on an as yet unproven idea... Its not exactly like a bar and chain costs 500000, and could ruin my company...


----------



## Bwildered

woodfarmer said:


> No, I’m still not getting it. There is no bypass when I put my face notch in, I didn’t cross over the bottom cut with the top angle cut.
> then I start the back cut on the far left side and bring it around. Put a wedge in, then chased the hinge using the top of the bar.
> 
> Ifnh, is the kerf shelf you mention, the four inches in the sapwood next to the holding wood on the log? Left is standing behind the stump as in the picture. Are you saying I create this when doing my back cut?
> I used to frame so to me “kerf” is the width of the saw blade on the back cut.
> The fracture I see is in the bottom right where the butt is sitting on the stump, is that what your referring to?



That's called a dutchman , below the hinge your horizontal face cut has gone deeper than the angled face cut, those cuts should normally always meet, that'd be why you had to chase the backcut to get it to go over.


----------



## hseII

northmanlogging said:


> Not to be argumentative, but there are some that have the experience but seem unwilling to try new things, or just stubborn... or inexperience promotes a willingness to try new things just cause.
> 
> Confusing no?
> 
> And here I am going off on Tethering... wonk wonk wonk new fangled gadgetry wonk wonk wonk... I feel thats different some how though, in that its new tech and the bugs haven't begun to be worked out, so I'm just leary of spending loads of money on an as yet unproven idea... Its not exactly like a bar and chain costs 500000, and could ruin my company...



True.


----------



## Gologit

northmanlogging said:


> Not to be argumentative, but there are some that have the experience but seem unwilling to try new things, or just stubborn... or inexperience promotes a willingness to try new things just cause.
> 
> Confusing no?
> 
> And here I am going off on Tethering... wonk wonk wonk new fangled gadgetry wonk wonk wonk... I feel thats different some how though, in that its new tech and the bugs haven't begun to be worked out, so I'm just leary of spending loads of money on an as yet unproven idea... Its not exactly like a bar and chain costs 500000, and could ruin my company...




LOL...I told Wilbur and I told Orville that that damn contraption would never fly and they ought to stick to fixing bicycles in Dayton Ohio.

Yeah, as we get older we tend to resist change. Wait 'til you get as old as I am.

I have to admit that the new technology in logging has been mostly for the good. Things have changed in this business faster than I ever thought possible and if a guy doesn't keep up he'll get so far behind that he'll never get his head above water. It's all about production and it always has been. Sometimes that's a shame.

Gotta say though that tethering just plain makes me nervous. That's a lot of machinery, not to mention a human being or two, hanging out there on the end of that line.

Happy New Year everybody, I'm going crabbing.


----------



## northmanlogging

A lot if the new tech is good, processors etc, 

Just never trusted cable much, at least not with my life, especially in logging conditions


----------



## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> A lot if the new tech is good, processors etc,
> 
> Just never trusted cable much, at least not with my life, especially in logging conditions


It's also an assist not a full out drag up dead weight, I don't trust cable much either but the guys running the setups that have had an issue haven't flopped over or slid very far. It'll help with erosion since they're not having to dig huge ruts in the hillsides and it's also ground they've cut without having the cable assisting them in those areas now. 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## bitzer

Backbarrin on the swang... 

Damn it's been cold. I like a cold winter but above 0 and no wind wud be nice


----------



## Bwildered

bitzer said:


> Backbarrin on the swang...
> 
> Damn it's been cold. I like a cold winter but above 0 and no wind wud be nice
> 
> View attachment 623014


No wonder you're cold, that looks like an awfully thin t shirt with only a couple of inches of really soft padding under it.
Thanski


----------



## bitzer

Bwildered said:


> No wonder you're cold, that looks like an awfully thin t shirt with only a couple of inches of really soft padding under it.
> Thanski


Your infantile jokes aren't doing much for me Reggie. You going to cut a tree down today?


----------



## Bwildered

bitzer said:


> Your infantile jokes aren't doing much for me Reggie. You going to cut a tree down today?


I'm still cutting downed salvage junk in the humid heat, dreaming about -15'c so I could stop sweating to put some padding on.
Thanski


----------



## woodfarmer

-25 celcius -34 with the windchill here today, i'm out.


----------



## Trx250r180

When its below 30 here ,the sapwood in doug fir freezes and kills my chain after a couple cuts ,do you guys have that problem with the hardwoods when it is real cold like zero ?


----------



## bitzer

Bwildered said:


> I'm still cutting downed salvage junk in the humid heat, dreaming about -15'c so I could stop sweating to put some padding on.
> Thanski


I know the feeling. In summer I can't wait for winter. In winter I think about summer. It's go time tho so what ya gunna do. Eating lunch warming in the truck as the wind is picking up. Skidding this am and cutting this afternoon. -25 to -30f with the wind is what they're claiming. Either I'm getting used to it or they're full of ****. I do like the cold better then the heat though. And for the record my wife is a damn good cook and gives a scowl if you don't go back for seconds.... And maybe thirds...


----------



## bitzer

Trx250r180 said:


> When its below 30 here ,the sapwood in doug fir freezes and kills my chain after a couple cuts ,do you guys have that problem with the hardwoods when it is real cold like zero ?


The sap runs into the roots in fall. Do conifers do that? I never thought about it. I would guess they would. Anyway I don't notice much difference in chains. The wood is typically more brittle and won't hang on the stump as long. It's also lighter not having much water in the stem.


----------



## Trx250r180

bitzer said:


> The sap runs into the roots in fall. Do conifers do that? I never thought about it. I would guess they would. Anyway I don't notice much difference in chains. The wood is typically more brittle and won't hang on the stump as long. It's also lighter not having much water in the stem.


The fir i have been cutting the heart is dry ,but the sapwood is wet and froze ,this was the last couple of weeks ,thawed out now i have not tried this week yet but should cut normal now .


----------



## northmanlogging

firs get mean when its cold, rock hard and brittle.

Hemlock and ceder aren't so bad, not sure why.


----------



## 1270d

Softwoods we cut are heavy and pretty hard in winter. I'm mechanical logging so I don't feel the difference in the chain with the harder frozen wood. Chains last longer actually because the snow keeps it out of the dirt.


----------



## northmanlogging

Thinking out side the shed.

As a disclaimer, the choker is only snug, just enough to keep it from falling into my saw, not enough to effect the tree in anyway, until it starts to tip. 

I am fully aware that if things went wrong that choker could easily kill me, hence the rapid departure from the scene. Rope may have worked better, but a choker is what I had, I however would not recommend using chain.


----------



## northmanlogging

also I apologize for the minute or more of looking up my sleeves, notice no cards up there though?


----------



## Trx250r180

Looks like it kept the butt from bouncing into the shed ,good idea


----------



## woodfarmer

Finally a break from the cold, -10 today but with windchill -24, so not much has changed however I was able to put a few more of the ash on the ground today.


----------



## woodfarmer

So thanks to that little monsoon the past couple days, the skid trail is under ice. This will be a hell of a job getting them skid, good thing i have 150' of cable on my winch.
Bunch more ash down today at 0*F. Used the humboldt cut I saw in one of hotsaw101's videos, fair size ash closet to 24".


----------



## Skeans

woodfarmer said:


> View attachment 625352
> View attachment 625353
> View attachment 625354
> View attachment 625355
> So thanks to that little monsoon the past couple days, the skid trail is under ice. This will be a hell of a job getting them skid, good thing i have 150' of cable on my winch.
> Bunch more ash down today at 0*F. Used the humboldt cut I saw in one of hotsaw101's videos, fair size ash closet to 24".


Try throwing a small snipe in the face or start with a Humboldt then block it'll help kick the tree off the stump as well as keep the twist out of it.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## woodfarmer

On the log or the stump?


----------



## Skeans

woodfarmer said:


> On the log or the stump?


Stump we all use Humboldt on the stump no pull is allowed here.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## northmanlogging

Fiber pullers....


----------



## Gologit

northmanlogging said:


> Fiber pullers....



Keeps the scalers on their toes.


----------



## Woody912

bitzer said:


> Yep Jack's the man. Ive learned a lot from him. Never realized how old he was until he mentioned how long he's been cutting. I think he said he caught the tail end of the old growth in the 80s.


he's good but can he do the triple hinge????????


----------



## woodfarmer

They're getting bigger, my hats off to the guys that lug a 066/660 around all day, that's like work.


----------



## Skeans

I've still never understood why folks east of the Rockies use a Saginaw face all the time.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## northmanlogging

But but its a shorter stump....


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## Trx250r180

northmanlogging said:


> But but its a shorter stump....


That cuttin with the saw above yer head just fills the back of your shirt up with chips anyways .


----------



## northmanlogging

Seriously though, i think its a hold over from the axe and misery whip days, way easier to swing down than up, 

Logging really took off around here in step with the development of the power saw IEL Titan and McCullach all come from the pnw, and they pretty much revolutionized the logging world. Especially when Oregon brought in the modern chains.

New technology new techniques


----------



## northmanlogging

Trx250r180 said:


> That cuttin with the saw above yer head just fills the back of your shirt up with chips anyways .


But i like being all itchy and irritable


----------



## hseII

Skeans said:


> I've still never understood why folks east of the Rockies use a Saginaw face all the time.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



Saginaw?

Due Tail.


----------



## Skeans

hseII said:


> Saginaw?
> 
> Due Tail.


Another name for a conventional face

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## hseII

Skeans said:


> Another name for a conventional face
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



Lots of ours must then be ground after felling.

Chains are cheaper than stumper teeth.


----------



## Woody912

Skeans said:


> I've still never understood why folks east of the Rockies use a Saginaw face all the time.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


high dollar sticks??????? Veneer walnut they go subterranean


----------



## Skeans

Woody912 said:


> high dollar sticks??????? Veneer walnut they go subterranean


Ever done poles or sailing masks? Super high dollar sticks with lots of footage. Last poles we did were 1500 a thousand, last mast we did were around 2k and one was in the 3's. A Humboldt can be a low stump as well not all of them are done standing up.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Gologit

hseII said:


> Saginaw?
> 
> Due Tail.



Besides _conventional_ I've heard them called _farmers cut, slop cut, okie face, _and a couple more that I probably couldn't get by the censor here.
I've heard bullbucks say, especially when cutting big stuff,"Just the okie the damn thing, we'll have to long butt for the swell anyway".


----------



## Jhenderson

Skeans said:


> Ever done poles or sailing masks? Super high dollar sticks with lots of footage. Last poles we did were 1500 a thousand, last mast we did were around 2k and one was in the 3's. A Humboldt can be a low stump as well not all of them are done standing up.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



Pretty tough to get as low as a conventional stump. 1st, Remember east of the Rockies it's mostly ground skidding or forwarder. Going stump to stump is a lot easier if you can easily drive over said stumps. 2nd, we have shorter trees so every little bit counts. An extra 6 inches on a nice red oak stump can put you into defect and turn a veneer log into a number one. Then there's taper. An inch in the stump is worth a foot in the top.


----------



## Gologit

Skeans said:


> Ever done poles or sailing masks? Super high dollar sticks with lots of footage. Last poles we did were 1500 a thousand, last mast we did were around 2k and one was in the 3's. A Humboldt can be a low stump as well not all of them are done standing up.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



A few years ago we cut some doug fir that was going for masts on an old sailing ship in Holland. I forget what they were worth but it was plenty. Big bucks. Enough to make a guy a little skittish anyway.
They had all kinds of rules about how they should be handled. Falling them was the easy part as long as you didn't bust one up. They couldn't have skidder marks or scrapes or loader marks or any kind of man made damage. The truck driver had to pad his stakes and put cloth under his wrappers
They wanted four and the forester found eight. We cut them all and the guy from Holland came clear over here to look at them. He wound up taking six.
The boss took us all out for a steak dinner that night.


Sent from my battered and coffee stained old lap top using two fingers and the occasional thumb.


----------



## hseII

Jhenderson said:


> Pretty tough to get as low as a conventional stump. 1st, Remember east of the Rockies it's mostly ground skidding or forwarder. Going stump to stump is a lot easier if you can easily drive over said stumps. 2nd, we have shorter trees so every little bit counts. An extra 6 inches on a nice red oak stump can put you into defect and turn a veneer log into a number one. Then there's taper. An inch in the stump is worth a foot in the top.



This is your 1st post I’ve Ever completely Agreed with.

Not that you care...


----------



## Skeans

Jhenderson said:


> Pretty tough to get as low as a conventional stump. 1st, Remember east of the Rockies it's mostly ground skidding or forwarder. Going stump to stump is a lot easier if you can easily drive over said stumps. 2nd, we have shorter trees so every little bit counts. An extra 6 inches on a nice red oak stump can put you into defect and turn a veneer log into a number one. Then there's taper. An inch in the stump is worth a foot in the top.



All I do is ground skid or shovel log in clear cuts, I don't have or have no reason to get into cable logging so I'm in the same battle. When we cut the low stump Humboldt we'll start with the face dig out the brush around it with your foot put it in, back cut will have to be back barred in or done with the saw standard wrap, it's not an uncommon deal unless you're in big flared butts.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Skeans

Gologit said:


> A few years ago we cut some doug fir that was going for masts on some sailing ship in Holland. I forget what they were worth but it was plenty. Big bucks. Enough to make a guy a little skittish anyway.
> They had all kinds of rules about how they should be handled. Falling them was the easy part as long as you didn't bust one up. They couldn't have skidder marks or scrapes or loader marks or any kind of man made damage. The truck driver had to pad his stakes and put cloth under his wrappers
> They wanted four and the forester found eight. We cut them all and the guy from Holland came clear over here to look at them. He wound up taking six.
> The boss took us all out for a steak dinner that night.
> 
> 
> Sent from my battered and coffee stained old lap top using two fingers and the occasional thumb.


The last masts I did were for historic ships there was a place out of Aberdeen that was restoring them. The biggest ones we did went to the prince of Saudi Arabia is what we were told, then another older was some odd length beams for a local mill had to have X amount of heart wood for a ranch home in Texas from memory the length was around 53' an odd length but the money was great. Did you guys ever do bumper/fender logs? Good money for big rough hair timber I've always loved those orders.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Gologit

Skeans said:


> Did you guys ever do bumper/fender logs? Good money for big rough hair timber I've always loved those orders.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



We cut a few but not very often. We'd sometimes get orders for long logs with certain diameters that were quite a bit bigger than pole specs. They didn't pay as well as poles so we never chased that market very much.


----------



## RandyMac




----------



## rwoods

That looks like our last year’s Christmas tree after we took it down and limbed it .... at least it felt that big after wrangling it in and out of the house.

Ron


----------



## Woody912

Skeans said:


> Ever done poles or sailing masks? Super high dollar sticks with lots of footage. Last poles we did were 1500 a thousand, last mast we did were around 2k and one was in the 3's. A Humboldt can be a low stump as well not all of them are done standing up.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



I've seem walnut as high as $12,000/1,000. Seems like some guys use virtually no face cut and leave no hinge. I'm just a firewood cutter, scares heck out of me. Humboldt seems like a lot more work pulling up rather than using gravity and letting the saw eat.


----------



## northmanlogging

Woody912 said:


> I've seem walnut as high as $12,000/1,000. Seems like some guys use virtually no face cut and leave no hinge. I'm just a firewood cutter, scares heck out of me. Humboldt seems like a lot more work pulling up rather than using gravity and letting the saw eat.


Use the dogs, its really just a little leverage on the handle is all, not really anymore then a level cut.


----------



## Skeans

Woody912 said:


> I've seem walnut as high as $12,000/1,000. Seems like some guys use virtually no face cut and leave no hinge. I'm just a firewood cutter, scares heck out of me. Humboldt seems like a lot more work pulling up rather than using gravity and letting the saw eat.


I can sit in the same spot pull a face then a back cut off a dog on the saw show me a conventional face cutter that can do that? Most of your guys stuff is slow and doesn't pay be honest you guys do firewood for a living or pulp it's nothing like here I do CT for a living you guys back there are let's say.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## madhatte

Dawgs hang the saw on the stump, gravity does most of the work. Al you gotta do is aim for the corner. Gotta have long enough dawgs, though -- the stock single dawg on Stihls won't hang on to much of anything, so you really want at least the medium sized ones if you're gonna really use them at all.


----------



## Skeans

If a Humboldt was more work we wouldn't do it at all pack in a 60" bar it's heavy let alone the power head.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Skeans

Woody912 said:


> I've seem walnut as high as $12,000/1,000. Seems like some guys use virtually no face cut and leave no hinge. I'm just a firewood cutter, scares heck out of me. Humboldt seems like a lot more work pulling up rather than using gravity and letting the saw eat.


There's no gravity I can let the saw eat with one hand on throttle like they should be, to the money how much do you think I made on one long log? Did I ever give you a footage? We make more out here then what you guys do with you tractors or cable skidder outfits back there you guys need to learn what a tree is, I thin what a tree is for height back there so quit, we cable long huge trees back there on tether ground.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## RandyMac

''East is East and West is West and never the twain will meet.''

Trees are trees, I believe it was unfortunate that our brothers on the other side weren't as blessed by God and given equal timber.
That said, each region has or had OG timber, each place had giants, most of the east has been logged several times, very few giants left.
We still have them, lots of them.

Carrying on with the thread, I high stumped nearly everything, 90% Humboldts, steep and deep.


----------



## woodfarmer

I think Mr.Skeans was a little into the sauce last night.


----------



## RandyMac

perhaps, he wasn't all wrong


----------



## Gologit

Woody912 said:


> Humboldt seems like a lot more work pulling up rather than using gravity and letting the saw eat.




It _seems_ like it is? Try it sometime. You might be surprised at how easy it is. You might also be surprised and pleased at how much more control you have over the direction of fall.


----------



## Gologit

RandyMac said:


> View attachment 626689



Every time I see that picture I think about all the work that went into finding that tree, making the bed for it, and falling it so it didn't blow up when it hit.
Fine job.

Here's what became of that tree...


http://mckinleyvillepress.com/former-pierson-manager-sheds-light-on-worlds-largest-totem-pole/


----------



## Trx250r180

I have not seen one log truck around here with conventional cuts on the butt end ,i think the mills would reject the loads if they got one .


----------



## northmanlogging

They don't reject them outright, but they will deduct a minimum of 2' then round down to the nearest multiple of 8 or 10.

So that skookum 36' high grade just became a #3 32' costing you right around $100

Pull it off a few times and they will turn your wood away


----------



## Jhenderson

Skeans said:


> I can sit in the same spot pull a face then a back cut off a dog on the saw show me a conventional face cutter that can do that? Most of your guys stuff is slow and doesn't pay be honest you guys do firewood for a living or pulp it's nothing like here I do CT for a living you guys back there are let's say.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



Would you translate that to ENGLISH for the rest of us?


----------



## KiwiBro

Jhenderson said:


> Would you translate that to ENGLISH for the rest of us?


I'll have a crack;

My **** is bigger than your ****.


----------



## northmanlogging

Jhenderson said:


> Would you translate that to ENGLISH for the rest of us?



We cut bigger timber here, taller fatter, worth more, in every way. What a lot of the East coast cuts is just pulp to us, or left for firewood, cause its not fit to haul to any mills. 

East coast cutters brag about 100' tall trees... meanwhile we're just getting the brush out of the way. Not bragging, or knocking east coast cutters, just the way it is.

A stand of 60-80' tall Hemlock out here is referred to as Dog Hair (not a compliment) and is generally thinned so them trees will get much bigger. Meanwhile 60-80' pine on the east coast is normal money logging.

Doug Fir cut under say 120' or 18" dbh is premature, should be closer to 150' and over 24" dbh (not that it doesn't happen, but patience people geese... another 15 years and you have good export timber)

So if you folks wanna continue playing with a standard face, thats all fine and good, cause in comparison yer just playing, Humboldt Faces are faster, safer and more accurate. But thems the same ole argument on deaf ears.


----------



## Woody912

Gologit said:


> It _seems_ like it is? Try it sometime. You might be surprised at how easy it is. You might also be surprised and pleased at how much more control you have over the direction of fall.



I have tried it, don't like it. My goal is to leave stumps the same height as my clutch cover thickness.


----------



## woodfarmer

Aw Northman now yer just bragging, I think the weather may have something to do with it. From the week at Christmas and two after it was -20* here, today 32* and in Vancouver 50*. So how does anyone expect our trees to grow much in a season. Have you done much cutting at 20 below? It’s damn cold, equipment certainly doesn’t like it. North of here it gets -30-40, they leave the diesels running 24-7.


----------



## Gologit

Woody912 said:


> I have tried it, don't like it. My goal is to leave stumps the same height as my clutch cover thickness.



That's a good goal.


----------



## bitzer

No Humboldts here. If I can drive over it with the skidder I'm happy.


----------



## bitzer

Conventional faces go in faster because you're cutting less wood. That being said when I'm in steeper ground I'm using Humboldts a lot more. I use the face that I know will save out the stick. I think that's what a lot of east coast guys don't get. Take this red oak for instance. The root flair is terrible. Cutting an honest Humboldt in it would take forever. It's a conventional with a snipe on the stump which has a similar effect to a Humboldt. The goal to get the butt down asap. Yes the stump is high but it's a marm. Couldn't find another good swell picture. Cutting Humboldts in big hard maple is a nightmare. You're cutting twice the wood and it typically has dirt pockets. That whole 1" at the stump is worth a foot at the top is a myth. Most Mills don't like that twisted up stump wood. They want the super clear grain wood which is typically power head on it's side high on big trees or higher. So many guys focus on saving the butt log. That's the easy part. Saving out the entire stick all day will add up in bf by the end of week. And cutting just above the flair will get you several more trees down a day. I'll take another 1000 bf a day over saving a few tens of bf on the low stump. Like I said if the skidder runs over the stump it's good.


----------



## woodfarmer

Would you have trimmed up the flare on the bottom of that log, or just left it as is?


----------



## Jhenderson

bitzer said:


> Conventional faces go in faster because you're cutting less wood. That being said when I'm in steeper ground I'm using Humboldts a lot more. I use the face that I know will save out the stick. I think that's what a lot of east coast guys don't get. Take this red oak for instance. The root flair is terrible. Cutting an honest Humboldt in it would take forever. It's a conventional with a snipe on the stump which has a similar effect to a Humboldt. The goal to get the butt down asap. Yes the stump is high but it's a marm. Couldn't find another good swell picture. Cutting Humboldts in big hard maple is a nightmare. You're cutting twice the wood and it typically has dirt pockets. That whole 1" at the stump is worth a foot at the top is a myth. Most Mills don't like that twisted up stump wood. They want the super clear grain wood which is typically power head on it's side high on big trees or higher. So many guys focus on saving the butt log. That's the easy part. Saving out the entire stick all day will add up in bf by the end of week. And cutting just above the flair will get you several more trees down a day. I'll take another 1000 bf a day over saving a few tens of bf on the low stump. Like I said if the skidder runs over the stump it's good.
> View attachment 627083


I disagree. Waste 6-8 inches on the stump and miss the last 8' log in a tree because of it and you'll wish you cut it lower. As for a humboldt face, they have their place and I use it when it's called for. Usually it's a double or rotten tree that requires a high stump. I use the humboldt for the same reason that west coast fallers originally did. To get the tree to slip off that high stump.


----------



## Woody912

bitzer said:


> Conventional faces go in faster because you're cutting less wood. That being said when I'm in steeper ground I'm using Humboldts a lot more. I use the face that I know will save out the stick. I think that's what a lot of east coast guys don't get. Take this red oak for instance. The root flair is terrible. Cutting an honest Humboldt in it would take forever. It's a conventional with a snipe on the stump which has a similar effect to a Humboldt. The goal to get the butt down asap. Yes the stump is high but it's a marm. Couldn't find another good swell picture. Cutting Humboldts in big hard maple is a nightmare. You're cutting twice the wood and it typically has dirt pockets. That whole 1" at the stump is worth a foot at the top is a myth. Most Mills don't like that twisted up stump wood. They want the super clear grain wood which is typically power head on it's side high on big trees or higher. So many guys focus on saving the butt log. That's the easy part. Saving out the entire stick all day will add up in bf by the end of week. And cutting just above the flair will get you several more trees down a day. I'll take another 1000 bf a day over saving a few tens of bf on the low stump. Like I said if the skidder runs over the stump it's good.
> View attachment 627083



I guess at some point the question in my mind is, if that tree was not cut and sawed in full production mode but rather with an eye to what kind of grain could result out of that butt swell; would it be worth a heck of a lot more money? I don't have an answer, just thinking out loud. I love looking at the grain that comes out when a pc of wood is sawed or split


----------



## northmanlogging

Woody912 said:


> I guess at some point the question in my mind is, if that tree was not cut and sawed in full production mode but rather with an eye to what kind of grain could result out of that butt swell; would it be worth a heck of a lot more money? I don't have an answer, just thinking out loud. I love looking at the grain that comes out when a pc of wood is sawed or split


Guess that is another difference.

Most of our wood goes for structures, and funky grain in no good in a 2x4.

Sure is pretty in a hunk of hardwood though.


----------



## Skeans

I would say if I put the left face like you guys I'd loose more then 2' you guys when come back then like Columbia helicopter lose your jobs. I've cut veneer alder it's cake compared to poles you guys wouldn't last. Another thing why do they bring guys from here for cutting vs back there.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Skeans

A veneer grade alder or maple is allowed no deflect correct that includes no face on the log right? If so a Humboldt is the right choice even in Europe I learned from my wife who is from Germany they're no excuse, East coast boys.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## bitzer

Jhenderson said:


> I disagree. Waste 6-8 inches on the stump and miss the last 8' log in a tree because of it and you'll wish you cut it lower. As for a humboldt face, they have their place and I use it when it's called for. Usually it's a double or rotten tree that requires a high stump. I use the humboldt for the same reason that west coast fallers originally did. To get the tree to slip off that high stump.



Losing an 8' log in the end of the tree because of taller stump? Depends on how good your math is. Every once in a while and I mean about 6 times a year I think I should have cut the stump a few inches lower to get that last log. Definitely not a daily occurrence or weekly or monthly even. And like I said you'll put a lot more wood down in a day cutting just above the flare on most trees then fighting it.


----------



## bitzer

Woody912 said:


> I guess at some point the question in my mind is, if that tree was not cut and sawed in full production mode but rather with an eye to what kind of grain could result out of that butt swell; would it be worth a heck of a lot more money? I don't have an answer, just thinking out loud. I love looking at the grain that comes out when a pc of wood is sawed or split




What are you going to doing with 6-8" of cool looking grain in the end of a board?


----------



## Woody912

bitzer said:


> What are you going to doing with 6-8" of cool looking grain in the end of a board?



Ever seen the price of AAA gunstock blanks? Figured grain lays out in the buttstock, straight grain thru the wrist where strength is required


----------



## northmanlogging

You ever seen gun stocks made out of anything but walnut? besides plastic or laminates


----------



## RandyMac

birch


----------



## Leeroy

Maple


----------



## northmanlogging

Ok shut up...


----------



## hseII

Birch

Maple

French Walnut


----------



## madhatte

Causarina (Norinco SKS)


----------



## RandyMac

Probably more rifles stocked in birch, than anything else.
Nearly 40 million Mosin Nagants were birch, the US also used it.


----------



## madhatte

OOH! Also spruce, lots of WWI Springfields stocked with PNW spruce. Some Winchester 1894's, too, as I recall.


----------



## bitzer

Woody912 said:


> Ever seen the price of AAA gunstock blanks? Figured grain lays out in the buttstock, straight grain thru the wrist where strength is required



Sure but that's a specialty market you need to cater to. I don't have that around here. I've got a burl market though. You would have to figure in for extra length to take that butt cut off. The mill is not going to cut 2ft of and then saw a 6'. We're talking specialty stuff now. Not typical production wood.


----------



## Jhenderson

Skeans said:


> A veneer grade alder or maple is allowed no deflect correct that includes no face on the log right? If so a Humboldt is the right choice even in Europe I learned from my wife who is from Germany they're no excuse, East coast boys.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



I have no problem selling slicer red oak with a face. Have another drink.


----------



## Woody912

bitzer said:


> Sure but that's a specialty market you need to cater to. I don't have that around here. I've got a burl market though. You would have to figure in for extra length to take that butt cut off. The mill is not going to cut 2ft of and then saw a 6'. We're talking specialty stuff now. Not typical production wood.


I understand that but given that neither Ohio or Indiana are exactly covered with virgin forest I think the specialty market to high rollers becomes more critical. I saw a 69" dbh white oak ground into mulch at the local liberal arts college. Probably worth multiple $10,000's cut into slabs and flitches.


----------



## Woody912

madhatte said:


> OOH! Also spruce, lots of WWI Springfields stocked with PNW spruce. Some Winchester 1894's, too, as I recall.



ok, that one I did not know. Are you sure about that?????????? Birch I buy, spruce I wonder


----------



## northmanlogging

Boy these chucks are hard to eat... and taste like diesel, hydro fluid and landing mud.


----------



## rwoods

Seems a lot of folks talking oranges while others are talking apples lately. Both fruits from trees but ... .

Ron


----------



## rwoods

bitzer said:


> ... Take this red oak for instance. The root flair is terrible. ... And cutting just above the flair will get you several more trees down a day. ... .
> View attachment 627083





bitzer said:


> Losing an 8' log in the end of the tree because of taller stump? Depends on how good your math is. Every once in a while and I mean about 6 times a year I think I should have cut the stump a few inches lower to get that last log. Definitely not a daily occurrence or weekly or monthly even. And like I said you'll put a lot more wood down in a day cutting just above the flare on most trees then fighting it.



Come on, bitzer, if you did a little euro falling, you could ditch the gas guzzling big saw with the heavy power robbing time consuming long bar and extra cutters for a smaller short bar saw and save all kind of filing/grinding time and fatigue which together will give you more time and energy to cut flares. Plus an average of six more logs a year. Sounds like a win-win. Almost as good as the mythological perpetual motion machine.

Ron

PS to my previous post. Kidding aside to quote my contractor when I was trying to save money building my house by cutting out sub-contractors, “It’s pretty hard to beat a man at his own game.” A lot of truth in what he said. Applies here as well. What works/pays in one type of logging might not in another. 

Good techniques are usually developed over the course of time by those making a living at it. Especially by those willing to challenge convention by trying something different and survive to evaluate it. From what I see, I believe bitzer and a few others are among the willing.


----------



## madhatte

Here's a spruce Winchester. I'm having a hell of a time confirming the Springfield provenance via Google, but the archaeologist on Ft Lewis put together a pamphlet for last years' centennial detailing the history of the Spruce Corps, which was comprised of soldiers enlisted to log during WWI, and one of the products they were said to be tasked with producing was spruce gun blanks, as walnut was running short during the war. I'll see if I can find a copy of this pamphlet, or better yet, get a link to a primary reference from the archaeologist.


----------



## northmanlogging

out of curiosity, I tried out a full comp chain 32" on ye ole 461 just cause I've never put one on a long bar

Loads up a bit so you really can't dog in and get some on a big tree.

But limbing sure goes faster now.

right until I rocked the snot out of it... couldn't even bump a toe kicker after that

I'll grind it to chisel when I gets some daylight and see how it does then, was a round ground chain, cause the saw shop didn't have any full chisel for me.


----------



## rwoods

Not sure the stocks were spruce. Here is what I found regarding spruce Winchesters: https://www.reddit.com/r/guns/comments/1x91gw/as_requested_my_wwi_levergat_winchester_model/

Ron


----------



## madhatte

Interesting. I will contact my guy and report back. He'll know what's up.


----------



## lfnh

Winchester used gumwood in some low cost slide action and bolt 22's and a few 1894 lever cf


----------



## bitzer

rwoods said:


> Come on, bitzer, if you did a little euro falling, you could ditch the gas guzzling big saw with the heavy power robbing time consuming long bar and extra cutters for a smaller short bar saw and save all kind of filing/grinding time and fatigue which together will give you more time and energy to cut flares. Plus an average of six more logs a year. Sounds like a win-win. Almost as good as the mythological perpetual motion machine.
> 
> Ron
> 
> PS to my previous post. Kidding aside to quote my contractor when I was trying to save money building my house by cutting out sub-contractors, “It’s pretty hard to beat a man at his own game.” A lot of truth in what he said. Applies here as well. What works/pays in one type of logging might not in another.
> 
> Good techniques are usually developed over the course of time by those making a living at it. Especially by those willing to challenge convention by trying something different and survive to evaluate it. From what I see, I believe bitzer and a few others are among the willing.




Thanks Ron! I bought a 372xp w/24" bar for my uncle this past spring. It got all the guys in the saw shop talking. They thought I'd gone soft.

As far as new techniques and trying new things, nearly every day I try a different cut, this or that, on at least one tree. If you fall into a rut your production will too. You have to test yourself everyday. I dont mean taking extra risks, but I can tell when my production goes stagnant and I know it's time for something new. Keeps things fresh and me thinking. Every job is different and can be approached differently.

I moved out of the hills and into the swamps last week. That's a shell shock. Production hopped up without even trying. It took a day or so to get into full out swamp mode. It's just how you move thru the wood with saw and machine that makes the difference.


----------



## bitzer

northmanlogging said:


> out of curiosity, I tried out a full comp chain 32" on ye ole 461 just cause I've never put one on a long bar
> 
> Loads up a bit so you really can't dog in and get some on a big tree.
> 
> But limbing sure goes faster now.
> 
> right until I rocked the snot out of it... couldn't even bump a toe kicker after that
> 
> I'll grind it to chisel when I gets some daylight and see how it does then, was a round ground chain, cause the saw shop didn't have any full chisel for me.




When I started running a 32" I ran full comp on it. Unless you've got the drags nearly level to the teeth you'll bind up every time you lean a little on it. Not real conducive to chasing backcuts in hard wood. Going to skip was a game changer for me.


----------



## Woody912

rwoods said:


> Not sure the stocks were spruce. Here is what I found regarding spruce Winchesters: https://www.reddit.com/r/guns/comments/1x91gw/as_requested_my_wwi_levergat_winchester_model/
> 
> Ron



I believe there was an article in "American Rifleman" a few years back about the "Spruce guns" but it did not involve stock material. Personally I have seen a lot of maple, cherry, myrtlewood, mesquite, apple as well as birch and walnut.. Figured maple was a favorite of the Kentucky longrifles. Article in AR a few years back about Cecil Brooks and the trees that he picked up to make the NRA presentation gun every year.


----------



## northmanlogging

bitzer said:


> When I started running a 32" I ran full comp on it. Unless you've got the drags nearly level to the teeth you'll bind up every time you lean a little on it. Not real conducive to chasing backcuts in hard wood. Going to skip was a game changer for me.



Yeah, haven't thrown this one on the grinder yet and turned it into a chisel chain, so I will find out in a few days. Sure was nice for limbing though


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## northmanlogging

Tight quarters no problem


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## rwoods

Pretty cool the bend wraps around the obstacles and the dish survived as well. Ron


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## woodfarmer

Is this up on video yet?


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## Jhenderson

northmanlogging said:


> Tight quarters no problem
> 
> View attachment 627534
> [/QUOTE
> 
> Obviously! If there had been, they're wouldn't be any photos.


----------



## northmanlogging

woodfarmer said:


> Is this up on video yet?


Nah no vid, was hurrying to get this one on the ground and bucked before the truck came back. 

Didn't look like enough wood for another load, turns out the 3 logs this one made ended up staying on the landing...


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## madhatte

Hot damn, yo, that's as nice as can be. Well done!


----------



## Trx250r180

northmanlogging said:


> out of curiosity, I tried out a full comp chain 32" on ye ole 461 just cause I've never put one on a long bar
> 
> Loads up a bit so you really can't dog in and get some on a big tree.
> 
> But limbing sure goes faster now.
> 
> right until I rocked the snot out of it... couldn't even bump a toe kicker after that
> 
> I'll grind it to chisel when I gets some daylight and see how it does then, was a round ground chain, cause the saw shop didn't have any full chisel for me.


full comp seems to pack up with chips for me felling thicker fir ,works real good in alder ,i have a couple loops of half skip .404 try finding that at the sawshop.stuff is good in betweener ,clears the fir not bad ,then limbs similar to full comp.


----------



## tramp bushler

northmanlogging said:


> Yeah, haven't thrown this one on the grinder yet and turned it into a chisel chain, so I will find out in a few days. Sure was nice for limbing though


 
I knew a bunch of guys that cut full time with full comp. I've run several full comp chains bushlin and day waging. It's not my thing but they loved the stuff. 
I always subscribed to the opinion that . You(me,anyone) can't get a full comp any sharper than a full skip. But it will get twice as dull. 
I've also watched " the cool guys" = full comp braggerds, get Hung like a big dog in big red cedar. With their better than my chains. It was a good laugh bucking them out with my full skip 404.  . 
They could cut limbs like a sumbi--- tho. 
Thing is. Cuttin yarder and shovel ground . It never paid to cut too many limbs. 
I know your processing more fully. But semi skip is the best all around. 
Another thing I lernt from Jack Jodry. Way back when I wore 34 waist rigging pants.


----------



## northmanlogging

tramp bushler said:


> I knew a bunch of guys that cut full time with full comp. I've run several full comp chains bushlin and day waging. It's not my thing but they loved the stuff.
> I always subscribed to the opinion that . You(me,anyone) can't get a full comp any sharper than a full skip. But it will get twice as dull.
> I've also watched " the cool guys" = full comp braggerds, get Hung like a big dog in big red cedar. With their better than my chains. It was a good laugh bucking them out with my full skip 404.  .
> They could cut limbs like a sumbi--- tho.
> Thing is. Cuttin yarder and shovel ground . It never paid to cut too many limbs.
> I know your processing more fully. But semi skip is the best all around.
> Another thing I lernt from Jack Jodry. Way back when I wore 34 waist rigging pants.


Finding semi skip on a shelf around here is problematic, i did pick up a roll of full comp fer durt cheap today though, had to shovel the dust off to read the specs


----------



## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> Finding semi skip on a shelf around here is problematic, i did pick up a roll of full comp fer durt cheap today though, had to shovel the dust off to read the specs


We use to get rolls of it through Madsen's then Woods down here keeps it in stock for a few of us, .63 gauge 3/8 semi skip chisel.

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## tramp bushler

Full hundred foot roll ? 
What kind of $$ is durt cheap these days ??. 
If u resist the urge to take down your riders often. It will work fine. Even in red cedar. If you clean the kerf often. You can get by . it will also not get lumpy like full skip does when 1 or 2 teeth get banged. 
But, you Will be spending more time grinding each evening.


----------



## Skeans

tramp bushler said:


> Full hundred foot roll ?
> What kind of $$ is durt cheap these days ??.
> If u resist the urge to take down your riders often. It will work fine. Even in red cedar. If you clean the kerf often. You can get by . it will also not get lumpy like full skip does when 1 or 2 teeth get banged.
> But, you Will be spending more time grinding each evening.


Last 100' was around 270 that was a few years ago, it's cheap considering a 50' roll of 11H(3/4) a few weeks back was around 350. 

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## tramp bushler

I need to get a few hundred feet of 3/8s and 404 chain. 
It would be AWESOME to stumble into a couple rolls of Oregon 52 AK. 
And even more better to find some rolls of Oregon 75 CKX Dura Pro . the wide kerf chain. 
Last I checked 404 full skip chisel was running over $4 a foot.


----------



## Skeans

tramp bushler said:


> I need to get a few hundred feet of 3/8s and 404 chain.
> It would be AWESOME to stumble into a couple rolls of Oregon 52 AK.
> And even more better to find some rolls of Oregon 75 CKX Dura Pro . the wide kerf chain.
> Last I checked 404 full skip chisel was running over $4 a foot.


I haven't seen too many guys running 404 other then the 0.80 stuff for the harvesters and it seems like a 3 something.

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## northmanlogging

$325 including tax and making loops. 

32" loop is like $37and a 20" is like $28 thats for skip chisel, got 9 32" loops and 9 20" loops out of the rol
l


----------



## northmanlogging

Running Stihl Chain, cause I can't stand that Oregon stuff... though the oregon is cheaper, it don't last as long, and stretches all damned day.


----------



## tramp bushler

Skeans said:


> I haven't seen too many guys running 404 other then the 0.80 stuff for the harvesters and it seems like a 3 something.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk




I like 404. I have a bunch of bars that are too wore out to cut half decent with 3/8s . I'll be able to run a couple/few loops of 404 on them before they need to be turned into machetes or something. That in itself will equal wearing out a brand new bar plus. So that will help offset the cost. Need to pick up another rail closer too


----------



## Skeans

tramp bushler said:


> I like 404. I have a bunch of bars that are too wore out to cut half decent with 3/8s . I'll be able to run a couple/few loops of 404 on them before they need to be turned into machetes or something. That in itself will equal wearing out a brand new bar plus. So that will help offset the cost. Need to pick up another rail closer too


Got any art skills? I bet the Californians up there would pay good money for an old bar with some paint on it. A few of my old bars I've made into service mounts to put in the vise for power heads and the harvester auto adjusters.

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## tramp bushler

The other reason I like 404 is cottonwood and poplar. In big cottonwood 3/8s totally sucks . and its fine in white and Sitka spruce.


----------



## tramp bushler

Skeans said:


> Got any art skills? I bet the Californians up there would pay good money for an old bar with some paint on it. A few of my old bars I've made into service mounts to put in the vise for power heads and the harvester auto adjusters.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


The only saw anything I ever had painted was the 10" circular saw blade that was on my table saw. It cut the end of my left hand index finger off. A friend of mine painted a nice scene with a guy working a table saw and blood spurting out of his finger and the blade. Got it mounted on the main beam of the loft in our cabin.


----------



## RandyMac

Not this Californian.


----------



## madhatte

northmanlogging said:


> Finding semi skip on a shelf around here is problematic



Madsen's will spin you up a loop any ol' time. That's where I buy mine. It's my favorite for 28-32" bars. Anything over 32" is full-skip, anything under 28" is full-comp. Also, Madsen's. C'mon, those guys are just the best. Any excuse to go there is a good one.


----------



## Skeans

madhatte said:


> Madsen's will spin you up a loop any ol' time. That's where I buy mine. It's my favorite for 28-32" bars. Anything over 32" is full-skip, anything under 28" is full-comp. Also, Madsen's. C'mon, those guys are just the best. Any excuse to go there is a good one.


Do they still do buy two for the price of one? Long bars is where that pays off big time.

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## madhatte

Heck yeah the 2-for-one is still a thing. Those guys rule. Of course, since I grew up in Centralia and my family still lives there, I have plenty of excuse to roll through. Still, I would anyway. I also love their discount bin. Picked up a pair of new 16" Oregon Powermatch bars in large-mount Husky for $10 each the last time I was there. At that price, who wouldn't?


----------



## tramp bushler

I often thot I should have a 16 or 20 " bar and chain when packing into a new strip that was a long way down the mountain. Packin a spare30-36" bar along with everything else just gets old quick.


----------



## Gologit

madhatte said:


> Madsen's will spin you up a loop any ol' time. That's where I buy mine. It's my favorite for 28-32" bars. Anything over 32" is full-skip, anything under 28" is full-comp. Also, Madsen's. C'mon, those guys are just the best. Any excuse to go there is a good one.



That place is great. It even _smells_ good in there, like the old time saw shops I remember as a kid.
Dangerous place though. A guy can spend a bunch of money in no time at all.
You start walking up and down the aisles and you'll find all kinds of things you need. Well, maybe _need_ isn't the right word but you'll tell yourself it is.
The safest way to shop in Madsens is to make a list of what you originally came there to buy, throw the list and your credit card in the front door, have the guys fill your order, and pick it up out back at the loading dock. Don't go inside. Keeps the impulse buying to a minimum that way.


----------



## northmanlogging

Madsen's, Cascade Trader and Ritche Bro's, 3 very bad reasons to avoid Centralia/Chehalis all together. Not to mention wading through Tacoma and Seattle.


----------



## madhatte

I knew you folks were gonna feel my pain here.


----------



## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> Madsen's, Cascade Trader and Ritche Bro's, 3 very bad reasons to avoid Centralia/Chehalis all together. Not to mention wading through Tacoma and Seattle.


But Jim is such a nice guy at Cascade I remember when he was at PBI, Richie Brothers is like hanging a new Chandelier in a haunted house most of the time, Madsen's well it's family owned and one of the few places left that supports the fallers like no one else a good reason to help them out. Seattle and Tacoma I'm lucky being on the South side of that area, but even so traffic heading North from Kelso is getting heavy anymore.

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----------



## madhatte

Skeans said:


> even so traffic heading North from Kelso is getting heavy anymore.



Yeah, what the hell? How is Centralia/Chehalis a freeway slowdown? It's just wacky, I tell you.


----------



## Skeans

madhatte said:


> Yeah, what the hell? How is Centralia/Chehalis a freeway slowdown? It's just wacky, I tell you.


Last time the wife and I went through to head north took us almost an hour from the truck stop till past the casino exit.

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## madhatte

The new interchange at Mellen Street is just surreal. I have no idea what they're up to. Oh, and they STILL insist on new construction in the floodplain near Walmart. What could possibly go wrong?


----------



## Skeans

madhatte said:


> The new interchange at Mellen Street is just surreal. I have no idea what they're up to. Oh, and they STILL insist on new construction in the floodplain near Walmart. What could possibly go wrong?


Kelso and Longview want a bunch of round abouts near industrial way and industrial areas what can go wrong here?

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## madhatte

Oh, that's gonna be awesome. Can't wait for that construction traffic.


----------



## Skeans

No cutting this week other then one day been to wet for CT (commercial thinning) for JH managing our first thinnings or their their stand size timber. So the wife decided I'm a paint crew so the beer, chew, and paint is making for an interesting week.






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## hseII

Skeans said:


> No cutting this week other then one day been to wet for CT (commercial thinning) for JH managing our first thinnings or their their stand size timber. So the wife decided I'm a paint crew so the beer, chew, and paint is making for an interesting week.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk








The 4BT that came out of my Bandit 250 has a bad #1 hole: enter the back up block. 

Fingers Crossed.


----------



## Trx250r180

hseII said:


> The 4BT that came out of my Bandit 250 has a bad #1 hole: enter the back up block.
> 
> Fingers Crossed.


Thats about what my cat 6 cyl looked like a couple weeks ago ,had it sleeved ,3 of them dropped 3000 miles later ,got to do it again ,its running now for a week with no problems so far ,if it pops again a cummins is going in there .


----------



## hseII

Trx250r180 said:


> Thats about what my cat 6 cyl looked like a couple weeks ago ,had it sleeved ,3 of them dropped 3000 miles later ,got to do it again ,its running now for a week with no problems so far ,if it pops again a cummins is going in there .



Cummins is hard to Beat.


----------



## Skeans

hseII said:


> Cummins is hard to Beat.


You guys can have the Cummins especially on slopes they don't have the oiling of a Deere.

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## northmanlogging

Pucker factor engaged


----------



## Trx250r180

You have a hydraulic wedge i see .


----------



## RandyMac

yuck, that DF has that rot ****.


----------



## Trx250r180

Some nice sticks i saw today ,they dont look it in the pictures ,but a lot of them were over 4 foot across .
Looked bigger in person .


----------



## northmanlogging

this was next to the previous picture, one my older stumps, 6 or more years now? I've cut on this piece I think 5 times now, this is the first time I've done all the logging though. Owner would call me in for the big sketchy stuff, then skid and stack it himself... too old for that now though.


----------



## madhatte

RandyMac said:


> yuck, that DF has that rot ****.



Phellinus a hard one to avoid in trees 50-80 years of age. Catch 'em younger (the Weyerhaeuser way) or wait 'til the victims shake out, and you can avoid it. Fortunately, it seldom makes it more than a few feet up the butt... though I've seen a few blow up 20 feet off the ground following windstorms. The stain will "develop" over about 24 hrs and should be bright and obvious by morning. I can see the delamination near the pith for an ID; if I could crumble it in my hands the setal hyphae and intracellular pitting would be positive ID.


----------



## northmanlogging

Only one so far on this project.

Though I'm getting closer to the road in the next week or so, that one was leaning slightly towards said road, and power lines.

Bucked off a good 10' still a little bit of stain, but I'll ship and and see what happens.


----------



## madhatte

Stain's hardly a thing if the wood is sound. It's all in the timing.


----------



## Skeans

madhatte said:


> Stain's hardly a thing if the wood is sound. It's all in the timing.


It's depends on the mill and how bad they want wood, I've had a sound stain log hit reman before.

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## madhatte

Freakin' mills.


----------



## woodfarmer

Making some progress now that good weather is here


----------



## northmanlogging

Lets see you you folks can piece together what happened here. Only hint I'll give is notice the position of the axe, I put it there before falling this tree.


----------



## northmanlogging

Oh and does this count as 6 points or 3?


----------



## KiwiBro

she got a bit sideways, twisted/drove that axe that was resting in the kerf into the bark as if leaving a calling card? I've got an ex that did crazy shite like that.


----------



## northmanlogging

close


----------



## KiwiBro

flicked the axe like a playing card?


----------



## northmanlogging

axe stayed put... Look at where the chips lie, vs where a cutter might be standing.


----------



## Skeans

She hung up pretty good there throwing the butt up around right at you there on the right side, nothing like dancing with the devil.

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## northmanlogging

Skeans said:


> She hung up pretty good there throwing the butt up around right at you there on the right side, nothing like dancing with the devil.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


and the winner is... (ps all you get is a pocket full of belly button lint)

Twas supposed to go just to the left of those 2 leave trees, but she hooked right into em, slipped off the butt, and swung hard at me.

I turned around just in time to see the fibers blow by, and feel the wind in my beard.

It went all the way down, and didn't get hung at all.

Reason #2 why folks should vacate the stump.


----------



## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> and the winner is... (ps all you get is a pocket full of belly button lint)
> 
> Twas supposed to go just to the left of those 2 leave trees, but she hooked right into em, slipped off the butt, and swung hard at me.
> 
> I turned around just in time to see the fibers blow by, and feel the wind in my beard.
> 
> It went all the way down, and didn't get hung at all.
> 
> Reason #2 why folks should vacate the stump.


We've all had it happen, hell it can happen even in a feller buncher beginning of the month I had a fir do the same thing from an alder that was hanging out in my row ahead of me.

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## northmanlogging

Not the first time, won't be the last time.

Just hope I'm not in the way when it does


----------



## RandyMac

I ran from nearly every tree and from quite a few bucking cuts.


----------



## tramp bushler

Fairly common thing to have happen. At least the tree that got slammed didn't come back to visit with you. My friend that I used to cut for had 1 half of a school marm break off and come smash his leg. From a similar situation . tree with some belly in it didn't want to quite go where he wanted it to. 
Glad your OK and nothing got smashed !! I see you have full comp on your saw.


----------



## Bwildered

You were having a bad day all round.


----------



## bitzer

Happens all the time in select cut hardwood north. Had a cutter who didn't run from the stump and it slipped back and swiped his leg. Another 6 inches would have been some serious trouble.


----------



## northmanlogging

Good times yeah?


----------



## northmanlogging

tramp bushler said:


> Fairly common thing to have happen. At least the tree that got slammed didn't come back to visit with you. My friend that I used to cut for had 1 half of a school marm break off and come smash his leg. From a similar situation . tree with some belly in it didn't want to quite go where he wanted it to.
> Glad your OK and nothing got smashed !! I see you have full comp on your saw.



tried one out 2-3 weeks ago, then ran out and bought an entire roll.

Of course I bent that brand new one yesterday... stoopid limbs...


----------



## madhatte

madhatte said:


> Interesting. I will contact my guy and report back. He'll know what's up.



UPDATE

Finally got hold of the historian/archaeologist with this question; he's looking into it. Knowing him, this will lead him into a rabbit hole that will keep him busy for weeks.


----------



## northmanlogging

"Bwildered, post: 6470474, You were having a bad day all round"

There ya go again commenting on **** you know nothing about. How much trim on that log? how far back does the split go, does the mill care? is it pulp? do I care?

Do you even understand how logs are scaled and graded?


----------



## bitzer

northmanlogging said:


> "Bwildered, post: 6470474, You were having a bad day all round"
> 
> There ya go again commenting on **** you know nothing about. How much trim on that log? how far back does the split go, does the mill care? is it pulp? do I care?
> 
> Do you even understand how logs are scaled and graded?


He is and always will be a turd in the punch bowl type of guy.


----------



## Bwildered

northmanlogging said:


> "Bwildered, post: 6470474, You were having a bad day all round"
> 
> There ya go again commenting on **** you know nothing about. How much trim on that log? how far back does the split go, does the mill care? is it pulp? do I care?
> 
> Do you even understand how logs are scaled and graded?


It must have been a bad day.
Really you are so lucky to still be here, what were you thinking when you fell that tree into those others when there was so much open space available to miss them? splitting a good bole like that on a crosscut plus falling the tree into the others are classic beginners mistakes or someone experienced who was off with fairies, don't worry we were all beginners once & we have all been off with the fairies at some time, nothing to get your mangina all uppety about.


----------



## Bwildered

bitzer said:


> He is and always will be a turd in the punch bowl type of guy.


If we only had a dollar for every every time a wanker said something like that we'd all be rich men.


----------



## northmanlogging

"Bwildered, It must have been a bad day.
Really you are so lucky to still be here, what were you thinking when you fell that tree into those others when there was so much open space available to miss them? splitting a good bole like that on a crosscut plus falling the tree into the others are classic beginners mistakes or someone experienced who was off with fairies, don't worry we were all beginners once & we have all been off with the fairies at some time, nothing to get your mangina all uppety about.


What open space? You mean the busy road? the Power lines? or the Fence? 

As for splitting, that was bucked off at the break where the top blew up, so I call it a win.

Once again, commenting on **** you know nothing about


----------



## Bwildered

northmanlogging said:


> "Bwildered, It must have been a bad day.
> Really you are so lucky to still be here, what were you thinking when you fell that tree into those others when there was so much open space available to miss them? splitting a good bole like that on a crosscut plus falling the tree into the others are classic beginners mistakes or someone experienced who was off with fairies, don't worry we were all beginners once & we have all been off with the fairies at some time, nothing to get your mangina all uppety about.
> 
> 
> What open space? You mean the busy road? the Power lines? or the Fence?
> 
> As for splitting, that was bucked off at the break where the top blew up, so I call it a win.
> 
> Once again, commenting on **** you know nothing about


We'll never really know, you've removed the picture evidence, I must say you're a very tidy logger to drag away a blown up top before the money log, thats a lot of work covering up for a brain fart which we all have at times.


----------



## northmanlogging

Bwildered We'll never really know, you've removed the picture evidence, I must say you're a very tidy logger to drag away a blown up top before the money log, thats a lot of work covering up for a brain fart which we all have at times

Never deleted any pictures, just the link from your post to make things clearer for the average reader that hasn't figured out just how utterly full of **** you are.

As for the top, its still where it landed, 3 feet from where the end of that log was sitting. Cause in fact I make one helluva mess and don't bother cleaning it up until I"m done as I have nothing to hide.

You spouting off about broken logs, is merely confirming your ignorance, or just being an *******, either way, blowing up a picture on a stem that was 74' to where I bucked it at around 7" and claiming its a waste is foolish, as the rest of the top would have been thrown away anyways.

I can't sell anything under 5" or less then 16' regardless of species, losing a little bit of the top is not a big deal when the tree was only about 90' to begin with, if the tree was 20' taller, I could have gotten a 3rd log out of it with no issues.

Sure I could go broke limbing for pulp, but frankly I have better things to do with my saw gas and sweat.

Enjoy talking to yourself on ignore.


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## Trx250r180

When softwood is 120 foot tall sometimes the tops just crack when hit the ground ,with all the limbs it's going to happen sometimes if you get 2 - 40 footers before the crack ,no loss ,tops are so limby i just use em for firewood most of the time myself.


----------



## Skeans

Trx250r180 said:


> When softwood is 120 foot tall sometimes the tops just crack when hit the ground ,with all the limbs it's going to happen sometimes if you get 2 - 40 footers before the crack ,no loss ,tops are so limby i just use em for firewood most of the time myself.


Not just limby but they make a snake look straight as well it's pulp in my book, as a land owner and contractor I love the guys that leave the pulp piles it makes it pretty easy to talk a land owner into doing the job as long as all wood is cleaned up and piled.

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## Gologit

It's too bad we can't get Bwildered over on this side of the pond. Maybe he could give us a skill demonstration. We promise that no matter how obnoxious he is we won't add any pages to his dental record. We might make him ride in the back of the crummy though, just to get some peace and quiet.
He could pack in with us on steep ground and spend the day. One day would probably be enough for him.
We could stand him up next to a good size Doug or Sugar Pine, show him where we want the tree, and watch him work. And then another, and another, and another, and another just as fast and hard as a guy could safely go. You know, _real_ logging. As in "you find fault with everything we do...show us what you got there, hot stuff".
I'll bet we could find him some short ground and a big cedar and tell him that he loses points...and maybe his job...if he busts it up. I wouldn't let him anywhere near a redwood.
In return we could swing a couple of trees for him. We could show him that it really _is_ possible to do the things we already know we can do. He doubts us. His loss.
I doubt if he'd take us up on a day in the woods with real loggers. He's a weekend warrior, a one tree a day kinda guy. That's not so bad but he won't listen to the people he should be listening to. Again, his loss.
If he had to perform and produce at our level on a continuous basis he'd melt like the snowflake he is.
And no, I haven't taken him off ignore. I can tell from NM's post what kind of blather Bwildered is spewing. Same stuff, different day.


----------



## madhatte

I mean, we don't even bother modeling for, much less marketing, topwood. Lop/scatter/crush -- it's better left on the ground to hold and improve the soil than moving it anywhere.


----------



## Bwildered

Gologit said:


> It's too bad we can't get Bwildered over on this side of the pond. Maybe he could give us a skill demonstration. We promise that no matter how obnoxious he is we won't add any pages to his dental record. We might make him ride in the back of the crummy though, just to get some peace and quiet.
> He could pack in with us on steep ground and spend the day. One day would probably be enough for him.
> We could stand him up next to a good size Doug or Sugar Pine, show him where we want the tree, and watch him work. And then another, and another, and another, and another just as fast and hard as a guy could safely go. You know, _real_ logging. As in "you find fault with everything we do...show us what you got there, hot stuff".
> I'll bet we could find him some short ground and a big cedar and tell him that he loses points...and maybe his job...if he busts it up. I wouldn't let him anywhere near a redwood.
> In return we could swing a couple of trees for him. We could show him that it really _is_ possible to do the things we already know we can do. He doubts us. His loss.
> I doubt if he'd take us up on a day in the woods with real loggers. He's a weekend warrior, a one tree a day kinda guy. That's not so bad but he won't listen to the people he should be listening to. Again, his loss.
> If he had to perform and produce at our level on a continuous basis he'd melt like the snowflake he is.
> And no, I haven't taken him off ignore. I can tell from NM's post what kind of blather Bwildered is spewing. Same stuff, different day.


Now that's funny, you must have an all terrain wheelchair with an oxygen supply to be still able to do any of that! You know nothing about what I do & have done , I like it that way, it just shows your ignorance .


----------



## Skeans

madhatte said:


> I mean, we don't even bother modeling for, much less marketing, topwood. Lop/scatter/crush -- it's better left on the ground to hold and improve the soil than moving it anywhere.


It makes a great mat to run the harvesters on too with less soil damage.

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## Bwildered

northmanlogging said:


> Bwildered We'll never really know, you've removed the picture evidence, I must say you're a very tidy logger to drag away a blown up top before the money log, thats a lot of work covering up for a brain fart which we all have at times
> 
> Never deleted any pictures, just the link from your post to make things clearer for the average reader that hasn't figured out just how utterly full of **** you are.
> 
> As for the top, its still where it landed, 3 feet from where the end of that log was sitting. Cause in fact I make one helluva mess and don't bother cleaning it up until I"m done as I have nothing to hide.
> 
> You spouting off about broken logs, is merely confirming your ignorance, or just being an *******, either way, blowing up a picture on a stem that was 74' to where I bucked it at around 7" and claiming its a waste is foolish, as the rest of the top would have been thrown away anyways.
> 
> I can't sell anything under 5" or less then 16' regardless of species, losing a little bit of the top is not a big deal when the tree was only about 90' to begin with, if the tree was 20' taller, I could have gotten a 3rd log out of it with no issues.
> 
> Sure I could go broke limbing for pulp, but frankly I have better things to do with my saw gas and sweat.
> 
> Enjoy talking to yourself on ignore.


Hold on there slim, I never said anything about waste, the blown up cut looked suspiciously like it was cut by a beginner or a logger having a brain fart, if it was a saw log & the top was blown then one would have though the defective part would have been docked out. Go back & check your previous pics, there is a least one missing, the one of the head of the tree you fell into the other two was gone. ( and now it's back & another is missing ) Skunning leave trees by falling another into them doesn't seem like a clever thing to do, especially when it backfired the way it did.


----------



## northmanlogging

depending on what the LO wants I'll sort out the bigger tops for firewood, otherwise they get tossed in the slash piles.

If i had a processor or at the least a delimber they would for sure go to pulp, hand processing them is rough work though.


----------



## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> depending on what the LO wants I'll sort out the bigger tops for firewood, otherwise they get tossed in the slash piles.
> 
> If i had a processor or at the least a delimber they would for sure go to pulp, hand processing them is rough work though.


Down here even the small guys do pulp it's pretty much required by all land owners but most guys are using shovels as well for a single man operation.

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## InfiniteJest

Been pretty good tripping , about 6 million boards to go. You can just barely see the yarder in the top left.

Enjoy the weekend.


----------



## northmanlogging

Skeans said:


> Down here even the small guys do pulp it's pretty much required by all land owners but most guys are using shovels as well for a single man operation.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Well pulp just doesn't pay, barely covers trucking, and I'm not that far from the pulp mill, so until I get grapples and a delimber, its just not an option.

But then I don't generally work on bigger ground, and a few piles are easily dealt with.

This latest job has gotten out of hand though, easily the most productive project I've dealt with. So lots of mess everywhere, though most of it has been cleaned up already, just not wear I'm currently working, its a big patch for me.


----------



## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> Well pulp just doesn't pay, barely covers trucking, and I'm not that far from the pulp mill, so until I get grapples and a delimber, its just not an option.
> 
> But then I don't generally work on bigger ground, and a few piles are easily dealt with.
> 
> This latest job has gotten out of hand though, easily the most productive project I've dealt with. So lots of mess everywhere, though most of it has been cleaned up already, just not wear I'm currently working, its a big patch for me.


You ever thought about a limbing gate? Not sure if it would work with a cable skidder or not but it'd be a cheap way to start vs a processor or stroker.

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## northmanlogging

Thought about it, but its pretty much one log at a time, with a cable skidder that's just madness. 

A Denzco Danharco what evers... and a set of grapples would be skookum though, still need to buck everything, but then I could stack em and go with the skidder then spend an hour or too limbing and sorting, or like I'm doing now skidding and stacking as I go, with an added step of delimbing tops.

Run out of ground fast with 4 or more sorts going though. 

There is an out fit making a purely mechanical delimber, stripper? I think they are calling it, that sort of set up would be ideal for what I'm doing, but they want 10g's for basically $500 in square tubing and a weekend or 3 of welding. http://stripperdelimber.com/

A guy could fabricoble one pretty easily and just chain it to a handy stump and be on your merry.


----------



## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> Thought about it, but its pretty much one log at a time, with a cable skidder that's just madness.
> 
> A Denzco Danharco what evers... and a set of grapples would be skookum though, still need to buck everything, but then I could stack em and go with the skidder then spend an hour or too limbing and sorting, or like I'm doing now skidding and stacking as I go, with an added step of delimbing tops.
> 
> Run out of ground fast with 4 or more sorts going though.
> 
> There is an out fit making a purely mechanical delimber, stripper? I think they are calling it, that sort of set up would be ideal for what I'm doing, but they want 10g's for basically $500 in square tubing and a weekend or 3 of welding. http://stripperdelimber.com/
> 
> A guy could fabricoble one pretty easily and just chain it to a handy stump and be on your merry.



You'd be amazed at how much you can strip with just a grapple, running a pull through will kill a shovel pretty quick they will kill a rotex bearing. We use to have a self contained CTR setup it worked really good had a top saw ect, but it started killing the rotex after about 5500 hours on our shovel in thinning wood.

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## northmanlogging

Yeah, 5000 hours is a whole bunch of wood though.

And lets face it, my excavator already has over 10000 on it so if she dies at 15000, I should probably be looking at something a little younger.


----------



## Trx250r180

I think the firewood guys pay almost double the pulp goes for dont they ?or does that depend where you are ?


----------



## madhatte

One of the outfits who seems to get every third or fourth one of our contracts has a neat delimber/harvester unit I don't know the name of, shovel drops the skidded tree on a bunk and it's limbed and bucked in a single movement, ready to be loaded. I'll grab a pic next chance I get. It's the only one I've seen like this. I think it's hydraulic, run from some kind of PTO from the shovel.


----------



## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> Yeah, 5000 hours is a whole bunch of wood though.
> 
> And lets face it, my excavator already has over 10000 on it so if she dies at 15000, I should probably be looking at something a little younger.


Since we got rid of the pull through that same machine is well north of 15k on the same rotex and one undercarriage it's been used for shovel logging as well as scarifying. 

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## Skeans

madhatte said:


> One of the outfits who seems to get every third or fourth one of our contracts has a neat delimber/harvester unit I don't know the name of, shovel drops the skidded tree on a bunk and it's limbed and bucked in a single movement, ready to be loaded. I'll grab a pic next chance I get. It's the only one I've seen like this. I think it's hydraulic, run from some kind of PTO from the shovel.



Sounds like a Hahn setup about like this, there was a few down here at one time seen one for sale up around your guys area not long ago.






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----------



## Skeans

Here's the exact setup we use to run before going to the processors.

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----------



## tramp bushler

madhatte said:


> One of the outfits who seems to get every third or fourth one of our contracts has a neat delimber/harvester unit I don't know the name of, shovel drops the skidded tree on a bunk and it's limbed and bucked in a single movement, ready to be loaded. I'll grab a pic next chance I get. It's the only one I've seen like this. I think it's hydraulic, run from some kind of PTO from the shovel.


An outfit that was here in the Copper Basin had a Prentis like what you described. 
The Hahn was the most common that I've seen here on the mainland.


----------



## madhatte

Skeans said:


> Here's the exact setup we use to run before going to the processors.



Very similar except the delimber isn't a separate stage. Also it's good up to about 30". 




tramp bushler said:


> An outfit that was here in the Copper Basin had a Prentis like what you described.
> The Hahn was the most common that I've seen here on the mainland.



It's obvious that I need to go find this thing and take pics, and all that . Here's egg on my face for not paying enough attention.


----------



## northmanlogging

cost and real estate a Hahn would take up I can't afford, most of my jobs i barely have enough room to turn the skidder around in.

For now I'm good with limbing the first 45-60' by hand, not many limbs, its the chip and saw/pulp looking stuff that gets to be a bother.

If there is enough for a chip and saw log its worth the effort, but barely. 

Fire wood is getting 200-300 per cord depending on how close to civilization you might be, Roughly 1 ton of wood, pulp is getting around $30 a ton.


----------



## northmanlogging

To reiterate...
Firewood is a racket, cut split and delivered takes about 4 hours per load, without the aid of a firewood processor, longer if its really knotty stuff, then another hour or more trucking it around.


----------



## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> cost and real estate a Hahn would take up I can't afford, most of my jobs i barely have enough room to turn the skidder around in.
> 
> For now I'm good with limbing the first 45-60' by hand, not many limbs, its the chip and saw/pulp looking stuff that gets to be a bother.
> 
> If there is enough for a chip and saw log its worth the effort, but barely.
> 
> Fire wood is getting 200-300 per cord depending on how close to civilization you might be, Roughly 1 ton of wood, pulp is getting around $30 a ton.


That's also one reason so many guys have went to a harvester or processor they take up less space, you can fall with one, guys load with them as well.

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----------



## Beetlejuice

Gologit said:


> It's too bad we can't get Bwildered over on this side of the pond. Maybe he could give us a skill demonstration. We promise that no matter how obnoxious he is we won't add any pages to his dental record. We might make him ride in the back of the crummy though, just to get some peace and quiet.
> He could pack in with us on steep ground and spend the day. One day would probably be enough for him.
> We could stand him up next to a good size Doug or Sugar Pine, show him where we want the tree, and watch him work. And then another, and another, and another, and another just as fast and hard as a guy could safely go. You know, _real_ logging. As in "you find fault with everything we do...show us what you got there, hot stuff".
> I'll bet we could find him some short ground and a big cedar and tell him that he loses points...and maybe his job...if he busts it up. I wouldn't let him anywhere near a redwood.
> In return we could swing a couple of trees for him. We could show him that it really _is_ possible to do the things we already know we can do. He doubts us. His loss.
> I doubt if he'd take us up on a day in the woods with real loggers. He's a weekend warrior, a one tree a day kinda guy. That's not so bad but he won't listen to the people he should be listening to. Again, his loss.
> If he had to perform and produce at our level on a continuous basis he'd melt like the snowflake he is.
> And no, I haven't taken him off ignore. I can tell from NM's post what kind of blather Bwildered is spewing. Same stuff, different day.


I don't know what you're talking about, but I do agree with everything said.. Me being a weekend warrior, and 63 yrs old, we must know our limitations.. You would no more catch me running up and down the hills dropping trees, than flying!! You guys (and gals?) have nothing but my deepest respect, and admiration. If I could turn back time 30 yrs I would love to learn and work and saw like the best. I suppose I've had my fun being a retired iron worker..I get a nose bleed if I get more than 3 rungs up the ladder. Kidding.. Y'all, please play safe out there.. Cheers, K


----------



## Chep

Lots of pissing matches between east and west and the in betweens. I don' care for that stuff much. We are all logging and all our methods have evolved to suit the areas we work. 
We take pride in low stumps and not breaking timber. Thrifty new Englanders make every inch count. It means we cut more scale and the landowners are getting the most out of their wood. 
These are pics of big white pine as I have been slinging over the last few weeks. 

But also cutting hardwood
2 pics of the triple hinge. 2nd pic u can see the hard turn




in the stem. It was Pull in hard down the hill

Be safe out there


----------



## Chep

Chep said:


> Lots of pissing matches between east and west and the in betweens. I don' care for that stuff much. We are all logging and all our methods have evolved to suit the areas we work.
> We take pride in low stumps and not breaking timber. Thrifty new Englanders make every inch count. It means we cut more scale and the landowners are getting the most out of their wood.
> These are pics of big white pine as I have been slinging over the last few weeks.
> 
> But also cutting hardwood
> 2 pics of the triple hinge. 2nd pic u can see the hard turnView attachment 630364
> View attachment 630365
> View attachment 630368
> View attachment 630369
> View attachment 630370
> in the stem. It was Pull in hard down the hill
> 
> Be safe out there


----------



## Beetlejuice

Love the 3rd pic.. Lined up alongside the road. Staged I should say.. My friend up the hill is an old logger, maybe 75 yrs?, and he says every tree drops different. The trick is to assess just how different it will drop and compensate for It. AND, never just start sawing.. Walk around, look up, look down, walk around it again, put brain in gear and give the tree every chance to land where you want it.. I'm telling you what y'all already know.. Again, hat's off to the people in the field that make it happen.. Cheers, k


----------



## northmanlogging

That trouble hinge, is a whole lot easier to pull off, if you call it a siswheel and put it in a humboldt.

Then your not boring into a saw log...

just sayin....

Its not so much an east vs west, but more a lack of evolution from folks that can't see the benefits to new ways of doing things.


----------



## bitzer

Chep said:


> Lots of pissing matches between east and west and the in betweens. I don' care for that stuff much. We are all logging and all our methods have evolved to suit the areas we work.
> We take pride in low stumps and not breaking timber. Thrifty new Englanders make every inch count. It means we cut more scale and the landowners are getting the most out of their wood.
> These are pics of big white pine as I have been slinging over the last few weeks.
> 
> But also cutting hardwood
> 2 pics of the triple hinge. 2nd pic u can see the hard turnView attachment 630364
> View attachment 630365
> View attachment 630368
> View attachment 630369
> View attachment 630370
> in the stem. It was Pull in hard down the hill
> 
> Be safe out there



Glad to see you swinging things. If you put a snipe on the stump or the butt the pull will come out of the stump rather then the log. On hard pulls sometimes a little wood out of the butt log can't be avoided.

It's not so much an coast thing as it is a belief that these things can't be done together. 
It


----------



## Skeans

Not one of the lowest back cut but getting there, if you do a slight stepped back cut it seems like you get less fiber pull.






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----------



## Bwildered

Skeans said:


> Not one of the lowest back cut but getting there, if you do a slight stepped back cut it seems like you get less fiber pull.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


That is definitely the case for our timber, also fibre pull increases with the depth of the scarf.
Thanski


----------



## woodfarmer

A lot of my Ash have cracks from the heart out,
Any ideas on how to prevent this.
From all the reading I've done, it's inherent in the type of wood
Bitzer???


----------



## Skeans

woodfarmer said:


> View attachment 630620
> A lot of my Ash have cracks from the heart out,
> Any ideas on how to prevent this.
> From all the reading I've done, it's inherent in the type of wood
> Bitzer???


Is it from the fall or from after drying?

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----------



## woodfarmer

The fall. I've tried gutting the heart, snip's humboldts and small notches. from what i've been reading, Ash and Oak are similar in that they split easier than other species.
My experience has always been with Beach and Maple, which don't do this.
One other observation about Ash, the heart is rarely in the center of the tree, often off to one side.


----------



## Trx250r180

woodfarmer said:


> The fall. I've tried gutting the heart, snip's humboldts and small notches. from what i've been reading, Ash and Oak are similar in that they split easier than other species.
> My experience has always been with Beach and Maple, which don't do this.
> One other observation about Ash, the heart is rarely in the center of the tree, often off to one side.


Heart to 1 side is common in windy areas i think,when i mill offset heart trees the boards seem to warp easier so i avoid those if possible ,could just be stress in the tree ,not your cuts.


----------



## woodfarmer

I don't think cutting frozen trees helps either.


----------



## bitzer

woodfarmer said:


> View attachment 630620
> A lot of my Ash have cracks from the heart out,
> Any ideas on how to prevent this.
> From all the reading I've done, it's inherent in the type of wood
> Bitzer???


That type of crack is from the tree being pissed it got cut down. Some guys carry "s" shaped pieces to tap in the log when they see it starting to crap . For the life of me I can't remember what they're called. Those cracks don't go in far and on ash it's not a big deal in winter. On really high dollar logs its more viable to pound those "s" ties in to keep the crack from spreading. All species will do it. Some worse then others.


----------



## woodfarmer

I remember Gypo used those.


----------



## Chep

That pic is of our landing. We are use cut to length system. Forwarder piles that wood. 
Triple hinge works 
I try all the cuts. They all have there place. I don' use Dutchman much .
For splitting wood we use flitch savers. A plastic H that fits in a hammer. Ash and hickory are the worst. You can watch them pop in the piles


----------



## woodfarmer

Darn hang ups cost most of the day


----------



## sw oh logger

bitzer said:


> That type of crack is from the tree being pissed it got cut down. Some guys carry "s" shaped pieces to tap in the log when they see it starting to crap . For the life of me I can't remember what they're called. Those cracks don't go in far and on ash it's not a big deal in winter. On really high dollar logs its more viable to pound those "s" ties in to keep the crack from spreading. All species will do it. Some worse then others.


S-irons --used most of all in good walnut 


bitzer said:


> That type of crack is from the tree being pissed it got cut down. Some guys carry "s" shaped pieces to tap in the log when they see it starting to crap . For the life of me I can't remember what they're called. Those cracks don't go in far and on ash it's not a big deal in winter. On really high dollar logs its more viable to pound those "s" ties in to keep the crack from spreading. All species will do it. Some worse then others.


S-irons--used most of all in good walnut or white oak. Veneer buyers use them and like when a seller uses them, sawmills hate them-they cn be hard to get out if you're not used to doing it.


----------



## Skeans

sw oh logger said:


> S-irons --used most of all in good walnut
> 
> S-irons--used most of all in good walnut or white oak. Veneer buyers use them and like when a seller uses them, sawmills hate them-they cn be hard to get out if you're not used to doing it.


Are you guys after the heart wood on all of your hardwoods? Always wondered that when it comes to hardwoods out here we can't run a spike drive wheel because of damage.

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----------



## Bwildered

woodfarmer said:


> View attachment 630620
> A lot of my Ash have cracks from the heart out,
> Any ideas on how to prevent this.
> From all the reading I've done, it's inherent in the type of wood
> Bitzer???


The outside of the log is in tension, once the log is crosscut the tension releases & cracks from the heart start to appear.
Our eucalyptus has enormous outer tension , one in a dozen might not have much so that type of cracking might not happen , your picture is typical of the one in a dozen that doesn't have much.
Thanski


----------



## bitzer

sw oh logger said:


> S-irons --used most of all in good walnut
> 
> S-irons--used most of all in good walnut or white oak. Veneer buyers use them and like when a seller uses them, sawmills hate them-they cn be hard to get out if you're not used to doing it.




Walnut is pretty much all to the south of me. And the white oak seems to keep standing more then I like. I could see using them in the right wood. Just have never had to.


----------



## bitzer

Skeans said:


> Are you guys after the heart wood on all of your hardwoods? Always wondered that when it comes to hardwoods out here we can't run a spike drive wheel because of damage.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



The oaks, walnut, and cherry you're looking for all heartwood . Maple, ash, hickory, basically the rest your looking for no heartwood. They want the white wood in those.


----------



## bitzer

woodfarmer said:


> View attachment 630785
> View attachment 630786
> View attachment 630787
> Darn hang ups cost most of the day




That's no hang up! Buck em and go. I thought about you yesterday as I stumped a 46" ash. Seeing as how you're cutting all ash I figured you'd like that one. No pictures tho. My phone quit doing that.


----------



## bitzer

Chep said:


> That pic is of our landing. We are use cut to length system. Forwarder piles that wood.
> Triple hinge works
> I try all the cuts. They all have there place. I don' use Dutchman much .
> For splitting wood we use flitch savers. A plastic H that fits in a hammer. Ash and hickory are the worst. You can watch them pop in the piles



Filtch savers. Thats it. Dutchmans will save you a tremendous amount of time and effort when you can apply them regularly.


----------



## woodfarmer

So this is before I pulled it down. It was a chore getting close enough to pull it sideways past the stump. 
You can see there is not much clear space to fell these.
I need a climber to top them.


----------



## northmanlogging

woodfarmer said:


> View attachment 630994
> View attachment 630996
> View attachment 630997
> So this is before I pulled it down. It was a chore getting close enough to pull it sideways past the stump.
> You can see there is not much clear space to fell these.
> I need a climber to top them.



Why top them? 

Be easier to make a hole for them to fall into, granted I'm not there and don't know the layout, just topping is labor intensive and expensive. Where planning your work a little bit and making room for everything just makes life easier all the way around.


----------



## woodfarmer

Well it’s on my own property and I’d rather not cut a hole 20’ wide, that would make a lot of holes.
This EAB came on all of a sudden and the property hadn’t been logged for well over 30 years as there were no signs of existing stump when I bought it 18 years ago. So I didn’t get a chance to do any thinning.
We have three different Bush lots between my dad and I, so most of my time is spent cutting down dead standing trees.
No two trees lean in the same direction either and I’m not that proficient at swinging a tree 180*.


----------



## Skeans

woodfarmer said:


> Well it’s on my own property and I’d rather not cut a hole 20’ wide, that would make a lot of holes.
> This EAB came on all of a sudden and the property hadn’t been logged for well over 30 years as there were no signs of existing stump when I bought it 18 years ago. So I didn’t get a chance to do any thinning.
> We have three different Bush lots between my dad and I, so most of my time is spent cutting down dead standing trees.
> No two trees lean in the same direction either and I’m not that proficient at swinging a tree 180*.


Might try a deep narrow face with a snipe on the stump to basically jump it off the stump getting the butt on the ground faster causing the top to get some momentum faster.

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----------



## Chep

Woodfarmer. Unless you have a machine big enough to pull out a big hung up tree then I highly recommend cutting holes. Often they don' need to be huge. Just a couple key trees to give it a path to the ground. It usually turns out to be safer, more efficient and in forestry terms unless every single tree in your woods is future saw timber (which from yer pics looks like there plenty of culls) then making small openings is the best thing you can do. Weed out the culls with your felling. You don' have to pull them if it to much effort. But knock them down. It gives your better trees more room to grow. What you are doing looks to me like making your own job even harder. My 2 cents


----------



## Skeans

Chep said:


> Woodfarmer. Unless you have a machine big enough to pull out a big hung up tree then I highly recommend cutting holes. Often they don' need to be huge. Just a couple key trees to give it a path to the ground. It usually turns out to be safer, more efficient and in forestry terms unless every single tree in your woods is future saw timber (which from yer pics looks like there plenty of culls) then making small openings is the best thing you can do. Weed out the culls with your felling. You don' have to pull them if it to much effort. But knock them down. It gives your better trees more room to grow. What you are doing looks to me like making your own job even harder. My 2 cents


In your guys hardwood thinnings how trees an acre are you guys normally shooting for?

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----------



## Chep

Skeans said:


> In your guys hardwood thinnings how trees an acre are you guys normally shooting for?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


We don't really work even age hard wood stands like you would plantation softwood. But I believe between 60ish per acre is optimum


----------



## Skeans

Chep said:


> We don't really work even age hard wood stands like you would plantation softwood. But I believe between 60ish per acre is optimum


Basically 22'x22' spacing or so if I'm guessing right, 100 trees an acre is 20x20 roughly sorry just trying to make it a little easier for new guys in the trade.

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## woodfarmer

After sleeping on it, and with all the advice from all you guys, I’m sure I will change my process.
Most of the trees in the area I’m cutting are Ash and going to die eventually. I should have looked at it differently from the start but sometimes it takes awhile. As I go,forward, I’ll start knocking down more of the trees in the path.thanks guys.


----------



## bitzer

woodfarmer said:


> After sleeping on it, and with all the advice from all you guys, I’m sure I will change my process.
> Most of the trees in the area I’m cutting are Ash and going to die eventually. I should have looked at it differently from the start but sometimes it takes awhile. As I go,forward, I’ll start knocking down more of the trees in the path.thanks guys.



Only 5 percent of trees make it to maturity and opening up holes will help those other trees speed along. Always make sure you cut your elm and hickory out of the way. They won't break like other species and will give you all kinds of problems either the tree sliding back at you or horrible springpoles.


----------



## bitzer

Skeans said:


> In your guys hardwood thinnings how trees an acre are you guys normally shooting for?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk




Depends on the type of woods. Maple/beech type youre shooting for 60-70 basal area when done cutting with 120-150 beforehand. In oak stands we shelterwood cut in the hopes to get it to regen. Oak needs lots of light. Soft maple/ash swamps get cut pretty hard usually. Size of timber all plays into it as well. Most foresters talk about roughly 4 sizes of trees in a stand. It's convincing the landowners to keep up with that at times is the problem.


----------



## madhatte

bitzer said:


> It's convincing the landowners to keep up with that at times is the problem.



Exactly. The first couple of entries are just an expense. It's a long game to make a buck.


----------



## woodfarmer

So I cut a hole, a couple smaller ash got hung up. I couldn't go any further as the conifers is the back ground are 20' past the property line.
As you know trees on the edge of the bush lean outwards, so I couldn't drop anymore,
What I did fall, allowed the crown to hit the ground.
I can't explain why I wasn't cutting the small ash out of the way to start with.


----------



## northmanlogging

Sometimes your blinded by your own prepositions. We all do it.

Its like when the wife cleans up the living room, and suddenly you can't find your shoes, even though they are by the door where they belong.


----------



## northmanlogging

Yeck


----------



## Trx250r180

Playing tennis ?


----------



## mdavlee

I had to drop a nice ash from my yard today. Top was split and could land on my neighbors new garage so it had to go.


----------



## Trx250r180

mdavlee said:


> I had to drop a nice ash from my yard today. Top was split and could land on my neighbors new garage so it had to go.


Millable ? Or firewood ?


----------



## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> Yeck
> 
> View attachment 631322


Have you had the joy of standing on a fence to cut one?

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## Gologit

Skeans said:


> Have you had the joy of standing on a fence to cut one?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



No, but I've stood on a skidder blade a couple of times when I didn't want to mess around making a spring board.


----------



## Skeans

Gologit said:


> No, but I've stood on a skidder blade a couple of times when I didn't want to mess around making a spring board.


Done that a time or two same with standing on the back of the shovel and the D7 winch arch nothing I've cared for.

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## northmanlogging

Skeans said:


> Have you had the joy of standing on a fence to cut one?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



Box of a Ferd ranger, and still cutting over my head...

Skidder tires, skidder roof, the roof was probably the worst, narrow, slippery, crooked, 9' in the air.

Most of the fence trees I'll try and back bore, or whatever to cut them low, that one had a 2x4 nailed to the back side of it, and I didn't feel like putting yet another fresh chain on...

Spring boards in comparison are far more comfortable, especially with caulks on.


----------



## rwoods

Not falling trees, but for trimming fence rows my grandfather had a grid of metal strips welded on the inside roofs of his 1950’s Dodge farm trucks to somewhat keep them from collapsing. Men stood on top and used bow equipped Homelites and MACs.

Ron


----------



## Skeans

New toy showed up this morning








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## northmanlogging

It's pretty.

But does it cut?


----------



## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> It's pretty.
> 
> But does it cut?


Did some cutting with it this afternoon man the wood flies out of vs the Fabtek which is good in clear cuts where you don't have to worry about leave trees but you can manually feed. Only concern might be the head size but only time will tell as well as talking with the instructor that came out for the weekend to get me going.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## rwoods

northmanlogging said:


> That trouble hinge, is a whole lot easier to pull off, if you call it a siswheel and put it in a humboldt.
> 
> Then your not boring into a saw log...
> 
> just sayin....
> 
> ... .



Is this one of those wheel things you speak of?




Just bored on a rainy day. Only dropped one tree - another nice for firewood red oak. Tried to help out at the lot and buck a little but broke my chain early in so just called it a day. Ron


----------



## Chep

@woodfarmer
Awesome to hear progress in your felling. Making a hole for a tree is a great step in the right direction. The job ends up looking better because it shows you thought about how your timber will fall. Not just bull and jam. 
On your ash cutting. That thick hinge is gonna bite you at some point. Ash is def the most explosive wood I work with regularly. Gut the hinge and nip the sapwood off the sides in my experience. 
Be safe bro


----------



## woodfarmer

Thanks Chep.
Ash is not what I normally work with, so there has been a lot of trials.
I was able to do a siswheel on this tree (I think)it was leaning to the spruce tree on the left and I managed to pull it around. I put a piece of the face cut wedge in the opposite corner.
So my day was 3 trees felled, skid 10-10' -12' logs. 2-16' firewood logs and one whole tree top. Not a bad day for me.


----------



## northmanlogging

Big block saws are cool yo!


----------



## KiwiBro

rwoods said:


> Is this one of those wheel things you speak of?


Wheel of (mis)fortune?


----------



## Trx250r180

rwoods said:


> Is this one of those wheel things you speak of?
> 
> View attachment 631823
> 
> 
> Just bored on a rainy day. Only dropped one tree - another nice for firewood red oak. Tried to help out at the lot and buck a little but broke my chain early in so just called it a day. Ron


Never seen a stump like that.


----------



## jakethesnake

Trx250r180 said:


> Never seen a stump like that.


May have been a total failure lol


----------



## woodfarmer

4000 bdft went down the road this morning


----------



## InfiniteJest

-20 with a view.




Getting tired of shoveling after work.


----------



## woodfarmer

Beautiful, what part of the world are you in?


----------



## InfiniteJest

Montana


----------



## Beetlejuice

InfiniteJest said:


> Montana


Just a chime in.. I be an old Missoula boy in a past life..about 40 yrs ago.. Absolutely loved it. Still not far away. Spokane cheers, K


----------



## flying pig

InfiniteJest said:


> Montana



A lot tougher than I am. No way I could live out of a trailer this time of year. A wall tent yes, trailer no.


----------



## InfiniteJest

Not tough, just to chicken to drive the 2.5 hours each way on windy slick roads.


----------



## Beetlejuice

InfiniteJest said:


> Not tough, just to chicken to drive the 2.5 hours each way on windy slick roads.


That the bITTEROOTS? (SP)


----------



## InfiniteJest

Coer de laine range. Pretty sure I spelled that wrong.

Just off the NW end of the 'roots.


----------



## Beetlejuice

InfiniteJest said:


> Coer de laine range. Pretty sure I spelled that wrong.
> 
> Just off the NW end of the 'roots.


Couer d'alene.. (Close). Up towards Libby or 3 forks?


----------



## flying pig

Pushed this one back 120* from the lean this morning. Probably the farthest I’ve turned one to date. Kind of a crappy leave, should have tried for 180*. Guess that will come with time and experience. This poplar stand is a real mess, they could be leaning any direction and half of them have been wind killed (we think). We’ve had extremely high winds the last few years and now all the poplar is dying. Oh well, it’ll all make firewood, 3x10s or pipeline skids


----------



## Skeans

Been demoing this for a week or so first dangle I've ran in more then a few years been interesting.


Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## InfiniteJest

Beetlejuice said:


> Couer d'alene.. (Close). Up towards Libby or 3 forks?



Thanks for the correction. Closest fuel/beer would be T. Falls.


----------



## northmanlogging

Just a wee bit of lean...



Also I think I've found my combination for grinder angles/raker depth, this particular tree was about 4 hours into the day, and still torching em off faster then my poor brain could keep up.


----------



## Beetlejuice

InfiniteJest said:


> Thanks for the correction. Closest fuel/beer would be T. Falls.


Friend of mine heading to Thompson Falls tomorrow.. I assume Thompson pass still closed? Missed the turn once to Thompson pass and ended up in government camp.. I was pretty embarrassed.. And was by myself


----------



## northmanlogging

ho hum


----------



## madhatte

Skookum as frig!


----------



## KiwiBro

northmanlogging said:


> Just a wee bit of lean...
> 
> 
> 
> Also I think I've found my combination for grinder angles/raker depth, this particular tree was about 4 hours into the day, and still torching em off faster then my poor brain could keep up.



fibre puller!


----------



## InfiniteJest

Beetlejuice said:


> Friend of mine heading to Thompson Falls tomorrow.. I assume Thompson pass still closed? Missed the turn once to Thompson pass and ended up in government camp.. I was pretty embarrassed.. And was by myself



The pass is closed at the 16 on the montana side according to the sign. Been snowing like a bastard the past few weeks.


----------



## InfiniteJest

The old 6 looks cold.


----------



## Beetlejuice

InfiniteJest said:


> View attachment 636848
> 
> 
> The old 6 looks cold.


Maybe I should start fixing snow blowers.. I was concerned cuz I know how harsh it can get.. At 63 yrs old I don't do much harsh any longer.. I Hoover between a bother and an inconvenience. I have pussied out..


----------



## northmanlogging

3 trees today, 19? logs most of em 32' all tipped with the 084

this was one of em


----------



## madhatte

I sure do like an 084. Maybe I'll luck into one if I'm careful to not look too hard.


----------



## northmanlogging

madhatte said:


> I sure do like an 084. Maybe I'll luck into one if I'm careful to not look too hard.


This one fell in my lap...

Needed a few new parts, but runs like a champ now... (hint spend to much time and money at the local saw shop... and express a constant interest in junk big saws)


----------



## madhatte

Smellin' what you're steppin' in


----------



## M.R.

madhatte said:


> Smellin' what you're steppin' in



Not directed at anyone in particular 
Came across this & got a chuckle out
of it.


----------



## InfiniteJest

Killed a handful this week. Kind of fun when the road out wraps around and you can see if you got anything done at the end of the day .


----------



## bitzer

Nice pics Sam. I bet the truckers like those roads.


----------



## InfiniteJest

bitzer said:


> Nice pics Sam. I bet the truckers like those roads.



Oh yeah , the crew had to put one back in the road with the yarder earlier this week.


----------



## InfiniteJest

Forgot, wife came up and visited a couple weeks ago and snapped some pictures. Fun with snow .


----------



## Skeans

Demoing a 1270G 8wd simple to run and the head is great to run.









Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## bitzer

You kneeling or standing at the stump in the first pic Sam?


----------



## InfiniteJest

bitzer said:


> You kneeling or standing at the stump in the first pic Sam?



Kneeling. Hiding under my hard hat from the snow clumps.


----------



## northmanlogging

Some PNW hardwoods

turns out its a cherry... so nevermind the yacking

anyway the biggest cherry I've ever taken, most of the time they are quite small around here.


----------



## bitzer

InfiniteJest said:


> Kneeling. Hiding under my hard hat from the snow clumps.


Teasing ya. No more then 6 inches of snow here at a time this winter and long stretches of good cold and no snow. Weird winter. Should be riding on frost til may


----------



## bitzer

northmanlogging said:


> Some PNW hardwoods
> 
> turns out its a cherry... so nevermind the yacking
> 
> anyway the biggest cherry I've ever taken, most of the time they are quite small around here.



That's a funny looking cherry Northy. I've seen some with pretty smooth bark but nothing like that and the wood us pretty white. Maybe you have different cherry out there. I've cut plenty Cherry in that size range though. They will split but I've never chaired one. They usually give up before that. They are easy to bust on the bucks.


----------



## bitzer

Cherry on the right. Ash on left


----------



## bitzer

Nother cherry. Not trying to bust yet balls northy. Just what they look like here.


----------



## InfiniteJest

bitzer said:


> Teasing ya. No more then 6 inches of snow here at a time this winter and long stretches of good cold and no snow. Weird winter. Should be riding on frost til may



Ha, tired brain. The other crew was in the same area last winter and were in 3-4 feet November through April. We got lucky this winter.


----------



## bitzer

InfiniteJest said:


> Ha, tired brain. The other crew was in the same area last winter and were in 3-4 feet November through April. We got lucky this winter.



I bet. I know what kind of snow you guys can get out there.


----------



## bitzer

Randymac makes a pretty killer scotch ale by the way. 8.5%


----------



## InfiniteJest

bitzer said:


> Randymac makes a pretty killer scotch ale by the way. 8.5%
> 
> View attachment 639352



I'll have to try that, seen it locally.


----------



## northmanlogging

bitzer said:


> Nother cherry. Not trying to bust yet balls northy. Just what they look like here.
> 
> View attachment 639351



Its all good, think they are rainier or mountain cherries? Native here in the PNW and not much for making fruit, unless you water them a lot and keep em pruned.

The wood is the same color as yer version, but the bark is very different, If it where a native Birch it would have white or yellowish wood. The bark looks a whole lot like Birch, but the leaves are different, I think one is more grey brown, the other more of a pink brown? I is color blind and Pinks-Browns are the worst, both end up more or less beige. Once the leaves where to come in, one has a more oval shape, the other more of a triangle, and are a whole lot easier to figure out.

I don't run into em real often and usually never over 4-5" as the Alders, Cotton Weeds and Maples will crowd them out pretty quick. That and its not a "cash crop" out here, so its never planted.


----------



## madhatte

northmanlogging said:


> Some PNW hardwoods
> 
> turns out its a cherry... so nevermind the yacking
> 
> anyway the biggest cherry I've ever taken, most of the time they are quite small around here.




We do have the occasional large cherry. Our native species is a tiny little spindly thing (P. vulgaris) but there's an escaped cultivar that occasionally sets up shop in DF stands between 20-40 years of age. I've cut them 60-80 ft tall in unthinned plantations. They sort of give up the ghost taller than that and die out under the canopy but they do hang with the fir for a few years. I'm guessing that's what you have there.


----------



## Skeans

Our cherry out here is a good way to bend a harvester bar or break a chain real quick every chance I get I rip it out and toss it into the stand. 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## bitzer

I've cut em 3' on the stump and straight A's an arrow no limbs to sixty ft but that's not the norm. Usually small twisty things. Used to be pretty high dollar. Kind of a pioneer tree that gets shaded out and dies like you guys are saying. Black cherry here.


----------



## bitzer

InfiniteJest said:


> I'll have to try that, seen it locally.


3 of em and you're feeling pretty good as I am now. Knocks the aches and pains of the day down anyway.


----------



## madhatte

bitzer said:


> Black cherry here.



I forget what species the non-native I most commonly find is. I'll grab a pic next chance I get. There's a stand about 100 acres that has a lot of them in there. They're about topped out so they'll be dying soon.


----------



## Skeans

madhatte said:


> I forget what species the non-native I most commonly find is. I'll grab a pic next chance I get. There's a stand about 100 acres that has a lot of them in there. They're about topped out so they'll be dying soon.


I'll see about getting a couple of pictures of that nasty stuff tomorrow the stand I'm in has whole areas of nothing but thanks to root rot.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


----------



## InfiniteJest

bitzer said:


> 3 of em and you're feeling pretty good as I am now. Knocks the aches and pains of the day down anyway.




When it's wet and cold, I'm pretty big on single malt scotch and scotch ale at the end of the day . Kind of like a reset button.


----------



## madhatte

I'm really seasonal with the booze. Fire season is all PBR -- cold, cheap, plentiful. Winter? Usually really citrusy IPA's or scotch but this year for some reason I've been really into red wine. I can't explain it. It happens every ten years or so.


----------



## GilksTreeFelling

northmanlogging said:


> Some PNW hardwoods
> 
> turns out its a cherry... so nevermind the yacking
> 
> anyway the biggest cherry I've ever taken, most of the time they are quite small around here.



Was gon say we have yellow, white and silver Birch here, and that didnt look like any of them. Yellow Birch is my favorite to cut soon as the chips start flying it has this delicious sweet smell that always makes me hungry and I always seem to get hit on by the ladies more when I've been cutting yellow birch lol. Nice looking cherry though and smooth drop.


----------



## northmanlogging

Makin a hole


----------



## InfiniteJest

I figured out the solution to the Montana end of winter burnout.....


----------



## Skeans

The old 653 is headed north to her new owner next week, the new 1270 has been a dream to run everyday production is up as well as fuel consumption is down in the 3’s an hour.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 1270d

And here you spent the last few years telling me dangle heads don't work. Do you like your crow raw or cooked lol?


----------



## Skeans

1270d said:


> And here you spent the last few years telling me dangle heads don't work. Do you like your crow raw or cooked lol?



Lol There’s places I miss the fixed head but the reach is nice so is the production. Have you been around the 415 Waratah head?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 1270d

Skeans said:


> Lol There’s places I miss the fixed head but the reach is nice so is the production. Have you been around the 415 Waratah head?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Never worked it personally but looked closely. Mine was the 480. there's a bunch of them around here. I like the design, wish they would change hose routing. Only trouble I've heard of is with chain tension, but I think that's worked iut


----------



## Skeans

1270d said:


> Never worked it personally but looked closely. Mine was the 480. there's a bunch of them around here. I like the design, wish they would change hose routing. Only trouble I've heard of is with chain tension, but I think that's worked iut



Once in a blue mine is a pain in the butt to retract even with a bar. I don’t know why they don’t do 360 on all the heads like the landing heads. It’s nice to finally multi stem when I’m in dog hair though.


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## InfiniteJest

Pretty good going this week.


----------



## Westboastfaller

woodfarmer said:


> View attachment 625356
> View attachment 625352
> View attachment 625353
> View attachment 625354
> View attachment 625355
> Used the Humboldt cut I saw in one of hotsaw101's videos, fair size ash closet to 24".


 Me thinks you (or anyone) that attempts to duplicate what you saw by a known pro faller: should be able to talk intelligently about it. (what the particular cut is for, what you were trying to accomplish exactly and what went wrong....or ask for help anytime. Beforehand preferably.


Skeans said:


> Try throwing a small snipe in the face or start with a Humboldt then block it'll help kick the tree off the stump as well as keep the twist out of it.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


 did you get tired of writing?


----------



## Westboastfaller

woodfarmer said:


> View attachment 632418
> View attachment 632419
> View attachment 632420
> Thanks Chep.
> Ash is not what I normally work with, so there has been a lot of trials.
> I was able to do a siswheel on this tree (I think)it was leaning to the spruce tree on the left and I managed to pull it around. I put a piece of the face cut wedge in the opposite corner.
> So my day was 3 trees felled, skid 10-10' -12' logs. 2-16' firewood logs and one whole tree top. Not a bad day for me.


 Brother, you are an accident waiting to happen. You break every deadly Timber Falling sin there is on a regular basis from what I can see apart from domino falling. You honestly need to learn from grade 1 page 1. You can tell a boxer 100 times to keep his hands up, tuck his chin & elbows, don't stand in front of him, circle from his power hand ect. but he won't listen until he picks himself off the canvas. You don't want to attempt to learn this through pain. While you are studying, I would practice making Falling cuts. You can make a jig to stand up 4 ft sections on the old stump. Cut a slightly tapered triangle female across the stump then the male from the butt and knock it in with your falling axe. You should be able to tell if your saw is level with your eyes shut from any of your regular falling positions. Practice that with the same saw and bar. and transition through different positions. Get some K&H wedges (10" & 12") learn to be good at it. f* all the rest of the ****. Learn & perfect the basics properly. Study up bar and chain maintenance. Ask as many questions as possible.


----------



## woodfarmer

mdavlee said:


> I had to drop a nice ash from my yard today. Top was split and could land on my neighbors new garage so it had to go.


Oh great @Westboastfaller , how does my stump look any different this this fellows?
I picked up a fair bit of great advice from Northman, bitzer, skeans to name a few, I don’t just run out and cut a tree down after watching a video.


----------



## Gologit

Is it just the camera angle or is your back cut slanted?


----------



## Canyon Angler

northmanlogging said:


> Makin a hole




Northmanlogging - At 7:15 in your video, it looked like you were trying to fall the tree just outside the frame on the left. I kept waiting for it to fall, but it didn't. Then you went off and dropped the cedar in the center of the frame. I figured you were just giving the tree on the left more time to fall before fussing with it again. But then you went and limbed the cedar where it looked like you were in the drop zone for the cut-but-still-standing tree.

What am I missing?


----------



## Westboastfaller

Since you started posting here in late Dec 2017; I Don'T believe you have one stump that meets an acceptable standard. Mostly, you don't have holding wood on each corner. This is out of aprox 25 stumps. One or two, you cut off deliberately and one was good but you were 1/2 second away from a full on barber chair because you didn't open the undercut enough. Leaving cut up trees, not brushing out saplings, falling into standing timber, we can only assume you don't brush out safety trail, look up, make full assessments,fall snags ect, and as mentioned, bad cuts, obstructing the undercut in frozen wood with a species that you admittedly didn't have much experience in. Way too little experience all around to even think about doing that. That's bad judgement for a faller to show that on the internet,IMO. Not a fan of that. I didn't sit and scrutinize your work. I saw bad work at first glance and moved on. Having said that, The first two prerequisites to making nice cuts are first, having a saw that cuts straight and the ability to recognize when the saw is level. That I am wrong about. At a second look, you show skills and do very good with CONSISTENTLY levelling. Even at a very low cut. 1) A true cutting saw, 2) level cuts, 3) precise cuts. Looks like you are at number 3 when it comes to falling cuts. In the whole realm of things, falling cuts are about 15% of being a good faller. Feelings has got nothing to do with it, on the hill or here. Take what you can get from people and put it in your bag of tricks and leave the rest of the Bs 'on the hill at the end of the job, the shift, the day. Tomorrows another day.


woodfarmer said:


> View attachment 620079
> View attachment 620080
> View attachment 620081
> 
> A few more stumps





lfnh said:


> Don;t know if that dutchy bypass was part of Logger Wades lesson, but seems like getting those face cuts cleaned up would be a better idea than the fancy cutting.


 Couldn't agree more




hseII said:


> I think Experience encourages Logic, where inexperience hugs The Side of Resisting Change.


 ^^^NEEDED TO BE SAID AGAIN

Good judgement comes from experience and experience come from bad judgement.

The human condition makes you wonder?


----------



## Westboastfaller

Canyon Angler said:


> it looked like you were in the drop zone for the cut-but-still-standing tree.
> 
> What am I missing?


 Yes


----------



## Westboastfaller

He wasn't falling the Doug fir sweeper, Likely it was a little snag that was just out of the camera. Look at the canopy as he is standing behind the tree waiting for his canopy to settle...then some..then he comes out.
That's two thumbs up.

*EDIT...APPARENTLY I MISSED SOMETHING...have to look again.


----------



## northmanlogging

Canyon Angler said:


> Northmanlogging - At 7:15 in your video, it looked like you were trying to fall the tree just outside the frame on the left. I kept waiting for it to fall, but it didn't. Then you went off and dropped the cedar in the center of the frame. I figured you were just giving the tree on the left more time to fall before fussing with it again. But then you went and limbed the cedar where it looked like you were in the drop zone for the cut-but-still-standing tree.
> 
> What am I missing?



Twas an alder that got hung hard in that ugly fir, wasn't going anywhere without help.

Got it later with the excavator.


----------



## Westboastfaller

woodfarmer said:


> Oh great @Westboastfaller , how does my stump look any different this fellow?
> I picked up a fair bit of great advice from Northman, bitzer, skeans to name a few, I don’t just run out and cut a tree down after watching a video.


 We can organize him/her. Run 'em through a database and see if they are a perpetual offender? Just let me go get my glasses and have a better look. OK, It says he's just about from the south. That's not really what you want to set your standards by, is it?

Just jokin'
That's Mike, he's like a role model to kids.
That's the first time I've seen one of his stumps. It looks like it would grade a 15 out of 15 had it not been for the little bypass
cut on the far side. doubt it's bigger than his pinkie....N THAT'S WHAT SHE SAID.


----------



## Canyon Angler

northmanlogging said:


> Twas an alder that got hung hard in that ugly fir, wasn't going anywhere without help.
> 
> Got it later with the excavator.



Thanks. That explains why it looked like another tree, in the center of the frame but further out, was shaking. I couldn't figure out _what_ was going on.

I notice you guys really do clean up the remaining hinge wood on the stumps and on the logs, just like in the BC Safety videos. Is cleaning up the hinge wood on stumps a way to reduce tripping hazards? (I don't remember what the BC Safety guy said was the reason for doing it...)


----------



## Trx250r180

Them stump pics you quoted Jamie ,


----------



## northmanlogging

Canyon Angler said:


> Thanks. That explains why it looked like another tree, in the center of the frame but further out, was shaking. I couldn't figure out _what_ was going on.
> 
> I notice you guys really do clean up the remaining hinge wood on the stumps and on the logs, just like in the BC Safety videos. Is cleaning up the hinge wood on stumps a way to reduce tripping hazards? (I don't remember what the BC Safety guy said was the reason for doing it...)



Legend has it that dudes can trip and get impaled by the slivers, heard of several folks dying from it. 

Also it looks better, more professional and stuff


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## Canyon Angler

Ow, hadn't thought of that. Thanks.


----------



## madhatte

I am always annoyed when I see slivers left on a stump. It just looks unprofessional, like the cutter doesn't care about his work or about who comes in behind. I did seedling survival surveys on a clearcut on Simpson ground out in Grisdale country 20-some years ago where all of the stumps had the mohawks left. That sucked because it was a 3-year survey and the slash was soft enough to not support my weight well, and my preference for covering that kind of ground is to jump from stump to stump. Can't do that if the stumps are all spiny death traps.


----------



## bitzer

Yep bugs me too. I always trim the whiskers. And cut 98% of the spring poles and busted off stuff and pull down the hung up tops and etc... When I see other loggers that don't it just looks like crap.


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## Skeans

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## northmanlogging

^^ ick


----------



## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> ^^ ick



That was part of a root rot area, the worst part of this job is there’s areas had natural seeding in like the coast gets with Hemlock. 


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## rwoods

So what kind of trees are we looking at there? The rings of branches looks a lot like white pine around here. Ron


----------



## northmanlogging

gyppo 1, stumps 0


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## Skeans

rwoods said:


> So what kind of trees are we looking at there? The rings of branches looks a lot like white pine around here. Ron



That’s Doug fir at 24 years old that’s been suppressed by over crowding as well as root rot issues, oh I forgot there’s some grand fir mixed in there as well.


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## flying pig

Had an awesome day tipping trees today. Fell with the 2101 for a while until I ran out of steam and switched to my Walkerized 372. Making a decent dent in our stand now, the two of us got about 3 acres in 3 hours today. My strip is starting to lay out a lot better, I’m getting most of my trees within a foot or two of where I want em now, and I’m more confident in my control at the stump. Feels like I’m learning anyway, and having a lot of fun doing it. Almost confident enough to post a stump pic or two, maybe next weekend I’ll let you guys beat on me a bit.


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## Skeans

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Skeans

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## northmanlogging

yep


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## Bwildered

this mornings haul, a new phone that can do the web thingy.
Thanski


----------



## InfiniteJest

Always nice when you can cut, skid and deck through breakup, but the roads get kind of skinny.


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## Bwildered

Yesterday's effort


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## northmanlogging

Be fuddled...

I know weve had arguments in the past.

But please stop using steel wedges to tip trees. Especially since your the first to gripe about any of the relatively minor safety stuff the rest of us do, steel wedges will tear a chain up, possibly breaking it, and send chunks into you.

But I commend you on finally showing us some of your abillities

(please pardon some of my puntuation, as I spilled a drink on the keyboard, and not all of it is working)


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## hseII

northmanlogging said:


> Be fuddled...
> 
> I know weve had arguments in the past.
> 
> But please stop using steel wedges to tip trees. Especially since your the first to gripe about any of the relatively minor safety stuff the rest of us do, steel wedges will tear a chain up, possibly breaking it, and send chunks into you.
> 
> But I commend you on finally showing us some of your abillities
> 
> (please pardon some of my puntuation, as I spilled a drink on the keyboard, and not all of it is working)



I’m just impressed that he got off his keyboard long enough to do that.

Yes, please loose the Steel Wedges.


----------



## Bwildered

northmanlogging said:


> Be fuddled...
> 
> I know weve had arguments in the past.
> 
> But please stop using steel wedges to tip trees. Especially since your the first to gripe about any of the relatively minor safety stuff the rest of us do, steel wedges will tear a chain up, possibly breaking it, and send chunks into you.
> 
> But I commend you on finally showing us some of your abillities
> 
> (please pardon some of my puntuation, as I spilled a drink on the keyboard, and not all of it is working)


I actually had to go nearly a kilometre & get a sledge hammer & the steel wedge because I couldn't get it to tip with the alloy wedge & a 2kg axe & it was touch and go then to get it over in the direction I wanted, it was fairly perpendicular & only had a small limb out the back, they are so heavy in the heads.


----------



## Bwildered

hseII said:


> I’m just impressed that he got off his keyboard long enough to do that.
> 
> Yes, please loose the Steel Wedges.


I'll do a days work in between revving you roosters up each day,
do you think I had my saw anywhere near that wedge ?
I've had 6 steel wedges in one tree to get it go where I wanted it to.


----------



## hseII

Bwildered said:


> I'll do a days work in between revving you roosters up each day,
> do you think I had my saw anywhere near that wedge ?
> I've had 6 steel wedges in one tree to get it go where I wanted it to.


Revving Up?
Pfft: Haven’t even broke an idle there Mr. Rooster Puller. 


Maybe take a falling Course to learn how to use more Saw & less wedge?


----------



## Bwildered

hseII said:


> Revving Up?
> Pfft: Haven’t even broke an idle there Mr. Rooster Puller.
> 
> 
> Maybe take a falling Course to learn how to use more Saw & less wedge?


Take a look at the picture, there was no more sawing that could be done


----------



## madhatte

Saw's not the only issue with steel wedges. Look at the wedges themselves, all mushroomed to hell and back. You're gonna blast a chunk in your eyeball. Same goes for damage to your axe poll, if you have the sense to use one. More likely you use a sledge, and that's part of the mushrooming problem, too. Far better to use plastic wedges with an ax that has a nice square poll. We're not idiots here in the Pacific Northwest. We use this stuff for a reason.


----------



## Bwildered

madhatte said:


> Saw's not the only issue with steel wedges. Look at the wedges themselves, all mushroomed to hell and back. You're gonna blast a chunk in your eyeball. Same goes for damage to your axe poll, if you have the sense to use one. More likely you use a sledge, and that's part of the mushrooming problem, too. Far better to use plastic wedges with an ax that has a nice square poll. We're not idiots here in the Pacific Northwest. We use this stuff for a reason.


That's why you keep your sunnies on or the mesh visor down , plastic wedges on our timber, what a complete joke. you're talking to the wrong person if you think I a beginner


----------



## M.R.

Yeah! But some have a steeper
Learning curve than others.....
& will never make the climb.


----------



## RandyMac

for some, the curve is a straight 90 degrees


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## Gologit

M.R. said:


> Yeah! But some have a steeper
> Learning curve than others.....
> & will never make the climb.



Well said. Good to see you back on here.


----------



## rwoods

Bw, not trying to fuel the wedge debate though I agree with the mushrooming concerns nor do I want to unduly derail this falling picture thread, but your steel wedge looks thinner than the typical splitting wedge in my part of the world - is it a falling wedge? 

After my last fiasco stacking wedges and the Stihl dealer raising the price to $12 on my usual plastic wedges that I beat to heck, I bought one of those fancy European alloy falling wedges. Haven’t used it yet. It is pretty heavy and real sharp. Not sure why it is so sharp. It could put a real hurting on you if you dropped it on your foot or hit yourself in the leg with it. Anyway, seeing the chunks out of yours is a little discouraging as I am hoping to get not only more lift but a significantly longer life out of the alloy wedge. Comments welcome.

Ron


----------



## northmanlogging

I like how some folks go straight to the not in our timber blah blah blah.

Soft trees use more wedges, hard trees one will generally do. Heavy trees use a bunch of em, its not rocket science.


Folks also like to assume that all conifers are soft like pine never mind that doug fir is on par with maples, or that yew is rock hard, madrone for that matter...

And that west coast cutters have never seen a "real hardwood tree" yet one of the largest hardwood mills is in burlington wa.

Oaks are native here too... 

As for wedges not holding up try lifting a 60" fir tree thats back leaning and 170' tall.


----------



## KiwiBro

@Bwildered, got any pics of your mill please?
Now I see why you were suggesting 30" instead of 42" bars. That ground looks almost flat and those trees small.


----------



## Skeans

I still say till they come play with some alder on a hill side they haven’t cut yet, besides it being chair prone they make great slides for a butt to come chasing you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Bwildered

M.R. said:


> Yeah! But some have a steeper
> Learning curve than others.....
> & will never make the climb.


And I've lived to tell the tale by being on the right side of the curve. I must be doing something right because I've been doing it for a long time.


----------



## Bwildered

KiwiBro said:


> @Bwildered, got any pics of your mill please?
> Now I see why you were suggesting 30" instead of 42" bars. That ground looks almost flat and those trees small.


Those trees were really just thinnings I got to fill a certain order for some heart centered posts, the smallest butt was 25", the last pic was fairly flat but the one in the previous post with the double leader was around 36" & maybe 20' slope.


----------



## Bwildered

rwoods said:


> Bw, not trying to fuel the wedge debate though I agree with the mushrooming concerns nor do I want to unduly derail this falling picture thread, but your steel wedge looks thinner than the typical splitting wedge in my part of the world - is it a falling wedge?
> 
> After my last fiasco stacking wedges and the Stihl dealer raising the price to $12 on my usual plastic wedges that I beat to heck, I bought one of those fancy European alloy falling wedges. Haven’t used it yet. It is pretty heavy and real sharp. Not sure why it is so sharp. It could put a real hurting on you if you dropped it on your foot or hit yourself in the leg with it. Anyway, seeing the chunks out of yours is a little discouraging as I am hoping to get not only more lift but a significantly longer life out of the alloy wedge. Comments welcome.
> 
> Ron


The steel wedge has the same taper as my alloy one, normally no professional Faller here uses plastic wedges on our HWDS and before alloys came about they used steel, they mushroom because they are flogged really hard to lift out heavy timber, the timber in that tree goes 1.2 tonnes / m3 which is over twice as heavy as anything some of you guys are falling HWDS included, if you use a alloy wedge you won't be disappointed, if you do a lot of falling & use wedging a lot it will save you $ in the long run as they can take anything you give them & last for years & years. If they are sharp it only takes a moment on a linisher to make them smooth


----------



## KiwiBro

Our approved code of practice here forbids metal on metal contact during wedge use. It's oddly satisfying beating the snot out of metal wedges with a big don't argue sledgehammer but don't let the H&S guys catch ya.


----------



## hseII

KiwiBro said:


> Our approved code of practice here forbids metal on metal contact during wedge use. It's oddly satisfying beating the snot out of metal wedges with a big don't argue sledgehammer but don't let the H&S guys catch ya.



My 1 eyed Uncle would agree.


----------



## Bwildered

KiwiBro said:


> Our approved code of practice here forbids metal on metal contact. It's oddly satisfying beating the snot out of metal wedges with a big don't argue sledgehammer but don't let the H&S guys catch ya.


That would mean alloy wedges weren't legal, that isn't the case here as alloy are recommended to be used instead of plastic in HWDS by OH&S, with that tree I cut the max out of the hinge before driving the steel wedge so there was never a chance of the chain hitting it, I however did cut the back 1/4 out before driving the alloy one in to stop the tree leaning anymore the wrong way, there was so much weight on the wedge I couldn't drive it in with just the axe , so that when I got the steel wedge & the BFH to finish it off , which still wasn't easy because of the weight I was trying to lift.


----------



## Skeans

KiwiBro said:


> Our approved code of practice here forbids metal on metal contact during wedge use. It's oddly satisfying beating the snot out of metal wedges with a big don't argue sledgehammer but don't let the H&S guys catch ya.



Aren’t the Aussie laws and Kiwi bushmen rules the same? Thought that’s what I remember from when we had a safety meeting they all had plastic wedges from what I saw.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## KiwiBro

Bwildered said:


> That would mean alloy wedges weren't legal


 Not really, just that ya can't drive it with a sledgehammer. Has to be one of those plastic-capped fallers hammers or wooden maul (no, I'm not making this up). Ever tried to drive a steel wedge with one of those plastic headed faller hammers? Pathetic really. Maybe there is a big sledge with a plastic head/cap. That would work nicely. Haven't really looked though.

*edit* I just went digging at the codes and guidelines online. The code says metal on metal. The guideline, which is supposed to go above the code, says don't drive a steel wedge with a steel hammer/sledge. The guideline, despite mentioning aluminium wedges often, doesn't say don't drive "steel or aluminium", so maybe it's just steel, but it conflicts with the code because alu and alloys are metals and the code forbids driving "metal" wedges with metal faced hammers.

So I guess it depends on what mood the inspector is in that day? I might seek official clarification on that. I mean if it meant I could be legal if I used a sledge on alu or alu-headed wedges, I might buy a few instead of breaking the law with sledge on steel wedge (with appropriate safety glasses)


----------



## Skeans

KiwiBro said:


> Not really, just that ya can't drive it with a sledgehammer. Has to be one of those plastic-capped fallers hammers or wooden maul (no, I'm not making this up). Ever tried to drive a steel wedge with one of those plastic headed faller hammers? Pathetic really. Maybe there is a big sledge with a plastic head/cap. That would work nicely. Haven't really looked though.



A sledge with shot in it basically?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Sagetown

Skeans said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Amazing ! There goes the Crew.


----------



## KiwiBro

hseII said:


> My 1 eyed Uncle would agree.


Was he wearing safety glasses? that said, I've a small scar on cheek from metal fragment that chipped off a hammer.


----------



## hseII

KiwiBro said:


> Was he wearing safety glasses? that said, I've a small scar on cheek from metal fragment that chipped off a hammer.



Nope.

Of Course in 197x, Safety glasses weren’t as cool.


----------



## Skeans

Sagetown said:


> Amazing ! There goes the Crew.



Our crew is myself an employee and a truck driver it’s been that way for over 20 years since we went to CTL. The largest we’ve ever had for a crew was 5.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## hseII

Skeans said:


> A sledge with shot in it basically?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Dead blows don’t last long beating on objects more narrow than their surfaces.


----------



## KiwiBro

Skeans said:


> Aren’t the Aussie laws and Kiwi bushmen rules the same? Thought that’s what I remember from when we had a safety meeting they all had plastic wedges from what I saw.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sorry, don't know. We are generally pretty close in many standards and adopt some aus standards at times but I don't know if NZ adopts Aus forestry H&S standards completely.


----------



## rwoods

Thanks, bw. We will see this fall how I get along with the alloy. Been asked to put down several 5’ fence row oaks after the hay is put up. Ron


----------



## KiwiBro

Skeans said:


> A sledge with shot in it basically?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk







about 3lbs. Trying to lift a heavy tree with that is nuts. I'll make a phone call Monday and ask for some clarification on the "metal on metal" aspect of the code and how it applies to alu/alloy which, as Bwildered notes, is still technically a metal.


----------



## Skeans

KiwiBro said:


> about 3lbs. Trying to lift a heavy tree with that is nuts. I'll make a phone call Monday and ask for some clarification on the "metal on metal" aspect of the code and how it applies to alu/alloy which, as Bwildered notes, is still technically a metal.



It looks like it’d be great for a lathe to center parts and that’s about it, I don’t think I’ve ever seen one out here in the brush you’d get laughed at real fast.


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## hseII

rwoods said:


> Thanks, bw. We will see this fall how I get along with the alloy. Been asked to put down several 5’ fence row oaks after the hay is put up. Ron



A jack will Be your friend.


----------



## Sagetown

Skeans said:


> Our crew is myself an employee and a truck driver it’s been that way for over 20 years since we went to CTL. The largest we’ve ever had for a crew was 5.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You're very skillful with that big rig. I was entranced watching U work that thing.


----------



## rwoods

hseII said:


> A jack will Be your friend.



Thanks, but I really rather have one of those 1270G rigs to play with and leave the jacks and big stalks to entertain someone younger.

I am told the LOs don’t care which way their trees go and there is nothing in range, if so then directional falling will just be a self imposed challenge. Randymac used the term sport falling I believe to describe some of his former off time activities - somewhat descriptive of my activities with a chainsaw just on an entirely different scale both trees and skills. 

A long way to say that I have enough sport gear to keep me entertained without buying or building a jack. I would probably overload one just when I was depending on it.

Ron


----------



## hseII

rwoods said:


> Thanks, but I really rather have one of those 1270G rigs to play with and leave the jacks and big stalks to entertain someone younger.
> 
> I am told the LOs don’t care which way their trees go and there is nothing in range, if so then directional falling will just be a self imposed challenge. Randymac used the term sport falling I believe to describe some of his former off time activities - somewhat descriptive of my activities with a chainsaw just on an entirely different scale both trees and skills.
> 
> A long way to say that I have enough sport gear to keep me entertained without buying or building a jack. I would probably overload one just when I was depending on it.
> 
> Ron



1270G?

No Comprendó.



You got a porta Power Pump?

Enerpac specifically...

http://www.borntragertreejacks.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/35-ton-tree-jack-borntrager1.jpg


----------



## Skeans

rwoods said:


> Thanks, but I really rather have one of those 1270G rigs to play with and leave the jacks and big stalks to entertain someone younger.
> 
> I am told the LOs don’t care which way their trees go and there is nothing in range, if so then directional falling will just be a self imposed challenge. Randymac used the term sport falling I believe to describe some of his former off time activities - somewhat descriptive of my activities with a chainsaw just on an entirely different scale both trees and skills.
> 
> A long way to say that I have enough sport gear to keep me entertained without buying or building a jack. I would probably overload one just when I was depending on it.
> 
> Ron



Always go as big as possible with the jacks it never hurts till you jack the tree off the hinge. The 1270 is fun and nice be interesting to do a clear cut with it one day.


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## hseII

Skeans said:


> Always go as big as possible with the jacks it never hurts till you jack the tree off the hinge. The 1270 is fun and nice be interesting to do a clear cut with it one day.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



How big of a diameter can you go with the 1270?


----------



## Skeans

hseII said:


> How big of a diameter can you go with the 1270?



Cut 28” single cut delimb 24”, double cut I’m not sure I haven’t been in any wood of any size that part of that patch is the most logs I’ve been in yet with it.


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## rwoods

Just guessing that it takes a lot of wood to pay for that Deere. I would think down hsell’s way in the pine plantations that the Deere would be the Cat’s meow. Turn the A/C on high, change the station from talk radio and let her eat.

Ron


----------



## Skeans

rwoods said:


> Just guessing that it takes a lot of wood to pay for that Deere. I would think down hsell’s way in the pine plantations that the Deere would be the Cat’s meow. Turn the A/C on high, change the station from talk radio and let her eat.
> 
> Ron



They all are expensive anymore, the wheel machine was about the same price as a small track machine which seems nuts that a machine from Finland is more then a USA machine. I’m sure it would be but they wouldn’t like having to move it on our double drop lowboy it’s 14’5” tall with the tracks on it.


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## Bwildered

KiwiBro said:


> about 3lbs. Trying to lift a heavy tree with that is nuts. I'll make a phone call Monday and ask for some clarification on the "metal on metal" aspect of the code and how it applies to alu/alloy which, as Bwildered notes, is still technically a metal.


This is from safe work Australia.


And my NSW forestry chainsaw manual mentions all types of wedges & their uses, it says steel to be used on big trees & only to be hit with a sledgehammer, my sawmill is just an old lucasmill, nothing special


----------



## rwoods

Skeans said:


> They all are expensive anymore, the wheel machine was about the same price as a small track machine which seems nuts that a machine from Finland is more then a USA machine. I’m sure it would be but they wouldn’t like having to move it on our double drop lowboy it’s 14’5” tall with the tracks on it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



We could pool our resources and buy this place. Once the pines mature, we could leave the Deere there for a little while. As a bonus we could put on a North America gtg. And invite bw over for a little bird hunting. Roast a pig or two and we might improve international relations. Ron 

http://www.longpineplantation.com/gallery.php#37


----------



## Bwildered

rwoods said:


> We could pool our resources and buy this place. Once the pines mature, we could leave the Deere there for a little while. As a bonus we could put on a North America gtg. And invite bw over for a little bird hunting. Roast a pig or two and we might improve international relations. Ron
> 
> http://www.longpineplantation.com/gallery.php#37


I'm hopefully going to BC at the end if the year to do some skiing with the family, no US as I've done the west coast a few times already.


----------



## rwoods

If we buy the place I will make sure you get an invite. Ron


----------



## Skeans

Bwildered said:


> I'm hopefully going the BC at the end if the year to do some skiing with the family, no US as I've done the west coast a few times already.



That’s the south not the PNW west of the cascades and north say of Eugene we don’t have pine let alone a big leaf pine.


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## northmanlogging

rwoods said:


> We could pool our resources and buy this place. Once the pines mature, we could leave the Deere there for a little while. As a bonus we could put on a North America gtg. And invite bw over for a little bird hunting. Roast a pig or two and we might improve international relations. Ron
> 
> http://www.longpineplantation.com/gallery.php#37



Didnt see how much they was asking for it

also I hear the pine market is kinda soft in the south, lots of ups and downs.

And ole befuddled seems to be coming around... maybe, but Ive been wrong before, pretty sure he just likes arguing as much as I do.


----------



## Skeans

northmanlogging said:


> Didnt see how much they was asking for it
> 
> also I hear the pine market is kinda soft in the south, lots of ups and downs.
> 
> And ole befuddled seems to be coming around... maybe, but Ive been wrong before, pretty sure he just likes arguing as much as I do.



I had heard they had softened the pine markets on the guys using pull through setups trying to force them to CTL with the price being higher for CTL wood.


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## rwoods

Don't know but this sentence speaks volumes to me: "The timber growth offsets a tremendous amount of the annual quail and land management operating budget." Apparently operations are in the red even counting anticipated long term income despite the smiling girls on the horses.

See you later in the Not So Pros thread.

Ron


----------



## rwoods

Bw, used my new alloy wedge today. Just cutting a few trees in the yard and didn't have a knife so I used the edge on that wedge to cut a length of rope to tie up my hydraulic lines. I might just blunt it as you suggested before I cut myself. 






Ron


----------



## woodfarmer

Bwildered said:


> This is from safe work Australia.
> View attachment 653041
> 
> And my NSW forestry chainsaw manual mentions all types of wedges & their uses, it says steel to be used on big trees & only to be hit with a sledgehammer, my sawmill is just an old lucasmill, nothing special


Stop felling in icy or snowy conditions, that’s when all the cutting and skidding is done up here, almost 5 months of the year.


----------



## Bwildered

woodfarmer said:


> Stop felling in icy or snowy conditions, that’s when all the cutting and skidding is done up here, almost 5 months of the year.


I wonder if the accident rate is higher? The other thing is you have the gear & the knowledge to safely deal with it whereas it isn't that common to work in those conditions here.


----------



## northmanlogging

Bwildered said:


> I wonder if the accident rate is higher? The other thing is you have the gear & the knowledge to safely deal with it whereas it isn't that common to work in those conditions here.



not sure about the accident rate, but familiarity makes things predictable, and therefore safer.

You folks are missing all the fun of frozen ground and frozen engines though. Guess the trade is every other living thing is trying to kill you. Dont move here


----------



## Skeans

Found this old girl in my thinning patch










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## rwoods

Looks a little bigger than your bite. 

I could go for just a few acres covered with trees like that one. Probably would never cut any of them unless diseased or damaged. 

Ron


----------



## Skeans

rwoods said:


> Looks a little bigger than your bite.
> 
> I could go for just a few acres covered with trees like that one. Probably would never cut any of them unless diseased or damaged.
> 
> Ron



That’s a nice big tall wildlife snag that will probably be put to rest the next time that patch is clear cut.


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## Bwildered

Today's dilemma, my wedge is under the butt of that log


----------



## M.R.




----------



## Bwildered

M.R. said:


> View attachment 653698


By the looks of the audience & the narrator, they're all half baked


----------



## MilanRV

Hello, a few pics from february and april 2018 Slovakia


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## MilanRV

more with snow


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## rwoods

MilanRV, do you cut only dead trees? Ron


----------



## MilanRV

rwoods said:


> MilanRV, do you cut only dead trees? Ron


Hi Ron, no... but its on the first place. Spruces are damaged by a beetle called lykožrút(_Ips typographus)_.


----------



## Skeans

No cutting for me today or tomorrow our daughter came this morning at 1:57 but here’s a video from Friday multi stemming. 


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## KiwiBro

Congrats Skeans. Sleep is overrated, I'm told.


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## rwoods

Skeans said:


> No cutting for me today or tomorrow our daughter came this morning at 1:57 but here’s a video from Friday multi stemming.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Congratulations! Got three of them and three granddaughters - wouldn’t trade any of them for anything or anyone. Ron


----------



## Gologit

Congratulations Skeans. Is this your first?


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## Skeans

Thank you guys, yes it’s our first one.


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## Bwildered

From the other day


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## rwoods

You guys may be right about pine prices. I am on the east coast of Florida at the moment. Several 40 acre tracts of good size pine being converted to commercial development. Trees all uprooted and stacked like cordwood. No mechanical cutters and not even a chainsaw in sight just multiple tub grinders. Ron


----------



## flying pig

It’s really too bad, all of our pine in this neck of the woods is dead. I’d love to have some to mill.


----------



## Gologit

rwoods said:


> You guys may be right about pine prices. I am on the east coast of Florida at the moment. Several 40 acre tracts of good size pine being converted to commercial development. Trees all uprooted and stacked like cordwood. No mechanical cutters and not even a chainsaw in sight just multiple tub grinders. Ron



I always hate to see forest land developed for commercial use. We can always plant more trees after logging but once you cover up ground with asphalt or cement it's gone forever.

And no, I'm not turning into a tree hugger in my old age. I'm just no fan of malls, shopping centers, and endless acres of tract housing that remind me of the houses in Monopoly.


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## RandyMac

Hey Boss!
yup, urban sprawl is ugly


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## rwoods

Local told me one of the tracts is for a 1200 home development; sure hope I underestimated the size. About half of one was covered with water - not sure how they classify wetlands around here where heavy rains stand for days before being absorbed, but I am sure this one will result in permanent ponds and landscaped areas probably to be inhabited by gators where there were none. Sad to see piles of trees that were planted 50 or more years ago tossed into a tub grinder.

Not a tree hugger either and not opposed to development but I hate to see productive soil used especially when there are miles and miles of much less productive scrub land nearby. Location location can be a short sighted use of real estate.

Ron


----------



## Skeans

It could be worse I guess the land could get locked up by the states or feds, a local government here is buying up tons of productive timber lands to lock us all out.


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## rwoods

Sounds pretty sad that a local government would have enough reserves and power to buy as you described.

Reminds me of the cross Florida canal fiasco. Before I was born some politicians thought it a good idea to build a deep channel sea canal across central Florida to connect the Gulf of Mexico with the Atlantic Ocean. Took thousands of acres from private hands, including my family. Some sold their property cheap on the prospect that their remaining lands would be real valuable. My family fought it in court and lost. Received $3 per acre. Didn’t take long to figure a deep canal would be a disaster so plans were changed to barge canal. Latter determined that a barge channel would be an environmental disaster. President Nixon called a halt and property was transferred to the State as opposed to being offered back to the original owners. We leased some of our property back at $4 per acre per year for cattle pasture. In the meantime time, the pine forest were turpentined and were cut twice. The State collected over $2mm on the second cut in the 70s much of which from what was our property. Just one step of many that took our family from living off the land. Makes me sad to think about it. Used to be really depressing to me. Bothers me to see government unnecessarily interfering with a way of life.

Ron


----------



## Skeans

rwoods said:


> Sounds pretty sad that a local government would have enough reserves and power to buy as you described.
> 
> Reminds me of the cross Florida canal fiasco. Before I was born some politicians thought it a good idea to build a deep channel sea canal across central Florida to connect the Gulf of Mexico with the Atlantic Ocean. Took thousands of acres from private hands, including my family. Some sold their property cheap on the prospect that their remaining lands would be real valuable. My family fought it in court and lost. Received $3 per acre. Didn’t take long to figure a deep canal would be a disaster so plans were changed to barge canal. Latter determined that a barge channel would be an environmental disaster. President Nixon called a halt and property was transferred to the State as opposed to being offered back to the original owners. We leased some of our property back at $4 per acre per year for cattle pasture. In the meantime time, the pine forest were turpentined and were cut twice. The State collected over $2mm on the second cut in the 70s much of which from what was our property. Just one step of many that took our family from living off the land. Makes me sad to think about it. Used to be really depressing to me. Bothers me to see government unnecessarily interfering with a way of life.
> 
> Ron


This is one of the stands Ron, we had to take it down to a 100 trees an acre excluding 6 snags to an acre as well as “wildlife” I mean wildfire piles. This piece was productive ground that had a bidder till the government paid 5x the value of the property. I will say that was the first job I’ve ever done where we got paid more the the price of logs to the mill. Forgot to mention this is now a bird park for city people to walk around in.











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## rwoods

Pictures not showing up on my end. Sounds like folks got compensated. Still troubling that more likely than not cities were established on the basic of abundant local resources which is understandable at the time but continue to expand in many areas through burying/destroying resources unnecessarily when going down the road a little would have less impact.

Ron


----------



## bitzer

Skeans having a kid? Reggie posting pics of actual fresh stumps? What the hell is going on around here?

Just did a clear cut for a farmer so he wouldn't lose control of his land to the local govt. It'll be ag next and then he'll sell and retire.


----------



## Skeans

bitzer said:


> Skeans having a kid? Reggie posting pics of actual fresh stumps? What the hell is going on around here?
> 
> Just did a clear cut for a farmer so he wouldn't lose control of his land to the local govt. It'll be ag next and then he'll sell and retire.



Yep got a little one spent the last three weeks in and out of the hospital.






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## rwoods

She is beautiful. Praying all goes well for all of you. Ron


----------



## Skeans

rwoods said:


> She is beautiful. Praying all goes well for all of you. Ron



Thank you Ron and everyone for their prayers, it’s been nice to be home finally.


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## Skeans

Nice to be home for a week to do a small clear cut of a corner of dying 60 year fir, here’s one of the smaller ones out of the patch I’ll hand cut maybe 20. At 60 they’re pushing 150 to 180 ft tall sure don’t want to handle these all the way to ground with the head or boom.


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## Skeans

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## RandyMac

LoL! A faller with a shiny ass from sitting.


----------



## Skeans

RandyMac said:


> LoL! A faller with a shiny ass from sitting.



Still hand fall stuff above 30” but the seat does feel good.


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## M.R.

I’ll always remember bucking bales for
a one armed farmer a couple summers
back in Jr. Hi after lunch his saying...
Okay Boys!!
Off your a$$ &
Onto your feet
Out of the shade &
Into the heat!


----------



## flying pig

https://youtu.be/t0IoZcD9kCo

Time to beat me up boys! Here’s what I know I could improve on in this video:

Dead snag, leaning towards intended lay. Problem is, it’s being used as firewood and I’d get skinned if I brushed out where I’m dropping it. I did brush a few trees pretty hard on the way down. Also it’s pretty thick in around the stump. I had enough room to get back a little but not far enough and my best escape path is a bit less than 90* to the intended lay as well, and it’s on the downhill side. Also my saw was really fat and the chain was wayyy less than stellar. I had brought in a roadside spruce the night before and didn’t notice how dull it was. Not sure why it was so pig fat.

Anyway, I left a big fat hinge on this one because it was a dry snag, steep & deep face. No pounding on it and the intended lay across the old sight line was the way it wanted to go anyway.

Please guys, if you have anything to add I’m all ears. I’m still only falling a day or two a month so I’m still heavily wet behind the ears here.

And to prove my saw doesn’t always suck this bad...



And the stump shot up top of course. All in an hours work. I love long weekend camping trips!


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## rwoods

Not a logger just a trespasser, but I know a logger. And he would say don’t forget to look up often. Maybe you were on the backcut but it didn’t look like you were much on the face.

Ron


----------



## hseII

Pasture Tipping Dead Oaks.























That is a 41” .404” Bar on a MS661R for comparison.


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## hseII

The others.


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## RandyMac

if you took a little chip off the bottom cut, the butt would clear the stump.


----------



## hseII

RandyMac said:


> if you took a little chip off the bottom cut, the butt would clear the stump.



Yes Sir.


----------



## Skeans

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## Fokke

Hello I'm new here
This is some job I did couple of days ago, big old beech


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## northmanlogging

a better day, less blood


----------



## Skeans

Here you go Nate this was at 4 every morning 


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## InfiniteJest

1 days haul. The baldface won't go in, have to use the pellet pistol on them.....The things I do for fun at camp....


----------



## flying pig

Working on my sawmill yard today and thought I’d let you guys critique a couple of my stumps. First pic is the 85 Komatsu I borrowed from the company I mechanic for. I just spent a couple hundred hours rebuilding the chassis and making all kinds of repairs on it. It pushes like crazy again now, just like a new machine.

First stump was a hard leaner 90* to where I cut the hinge. I’ve been using the technique someone mentioned a while back where you bore through the face and set your wedge on small diameter trees quite a bit. It seems to really work well for me. I’ve been setting up a sis about 1/3 to 1/2 hinge and the boring through next to it but only if there is enough hinge remaining to not let the compression side collapse. I don’t have enough experience yet to really know when they are going to crush the wood on that side so I’ve only been playing with this stuff when there is little consequence but a crappy lay. I had the dozer today so if this started going sideways I woulda walked away and shoved it over. Anyway, it pulled around and in smooth as butter, perfect lay.

Next one was just a siswheel. I overcut the face to about 50%, but it still worked out. I need more saw time, my accuracy in my cuts still isn’t great. Gotta get my skidder running though first before I’ll get a bunch. Then I’ve got another 80 acres to fall so I should get a bunch more saw time there. Having a blast every time I pick up the saw though, really taking my time and forcing myself to look up every time I move or strike a wedge.


----------



## Skeans

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## InfiniteJest

Find the yarder....pretty good cuttin.


----------



## Skeans

InfiniteJest said:


> View attachment 671825
> 
> 
> Find the yarder....pretty good cuttin.



You guys thinning that patch?


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## InfiniteJest

Pretty much. Us Montana hicks call it select cut. Cut it pretty hard and it still looks good.


----------



## Skeans

Running long logs now thinning



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## flying pig

Fell a couple of the snags we bypassed last winter today. Busy waiting for our new loader and other equipment and things to fall into place so we could start assembling our mill. Plus I’m headed to camp to do some wrenching for a week so I wanted to have some fun before I left.


----------



## flying pig

Here’s a fatty spruce, this is a huge tree for our area! May have maxed out dad’s firewood permit ha ha. Couple stump shots and one of my wife on the stump. She’s 5’3” for comparison and that’s a 28” on the saw. Dad said most of what he fell here in the 70s was like this. My boy sure thoughtit was neat. Most of what we are logging at the farm for the mill is much smaller than this and they are poplar so this was a nice treat. Saw some elk on the way out too but was too slow to fill the deep freeze too today. Oh well next time...


----------



## InfiniteJest

No, not a falling pic. Broke loose for a couple days and headed to glacier park. Back to reality about 3 AM tomorrow morning.


----------



## RandyMac

Every time I see Skeen's photos, I see areas that need burnt, need more machines to take up the slack.


----------



## Skeans

RandyMac said:


> Every time I see Skeen's photos, I see areas that need burnt, need more machines to take up the slack.



I’m a little out of the ring of fire up here I’m closer to Washington then California Randy, it’s always sad to see how they have maintained your guys forest.


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----------



## Sebago Guide

Well I did it. I started on page one about a month ago and read every post. I learned an awful lot. Thanks to all for passing on their wisdom.


----------



## InfiniteJest

Pretty nice day. About the best time of the year to work in the woods.


----------



## northmanlogging

muhuh..


----------



## flying pig

Had a beauty day today finally after two months of rain and misery. Limbed and topped probably 50 or so trees this morning and then skidded about 20 or so. Then I hung one worse than I ever have before. I checked my hinge and gun after I cut myself out and it was pointed to the intended lay. Wind must have really took it I guess. I had to cripple the one it was hung in a bit (from the side opposite where the tree was hung in it) and then fall two others into it to get it out, too wet to get the loader near it and our cat has no cab at all so that’s an even faster way to die with no escape. Apparently when I screw up I can still do a real good job of it. Oh well, if you don’t make mistakes you’ve got nothing to learn from I guess.


----------



## Skeans

The unhappy cutting partner she doesn’t care for ground much over 20 degrees.


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## InfiniteJest

Not so happy Halloween. Winter's in the air. At least the bees are done though.


----------



## flying pig

Overnight lows of -16*c forecast here this week Infinite. It is welcome for us, means we won’t have mud for a few months. Won’t have much daylight either but oh well, it’s a little give/take thing...


----------



## Skeans

flying pig said:


> Overnight lows of -16*c forecast here this week Infinite. It is welcome for us, means we won’t have mud for a few months. Won’t have much daylight either but oh well, it’s a little give/take thing...



That’s nuts I don’t think I’ve ever seen it that cold other then in Wyoming, where Idaho sucks and Kansas blows.


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## flying pig

Just a start for us. We are only starting to head into the deep freeze. Last Christmas we were working on our sawmill in -48. As long as it’s a dry cold it’s ok. You just move a little faster. Ha ha.


----------



## Timber1972

flying pig said:


> Just a start for us. We are only starting to head into the deep freeze. Last Christmas we were working on our sawmill in -48. As long as it’s a dry cold it’s ok. You just move a little faster. Ha ha.


Your weather reminds me of my years in High Level. We seem to be a bit warmer here in GP.

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## flying pig

That’s too funny Timber I’m out in Beaverlodge. We had a few days last winter that we’re that cold and we worked them at the mill because it was the only time off the regular jobs we had. Our mill is in a low spot north of Beaverlodge and it can be ten or more degrees colder down in there than in town at times.


----------



## Deleted member 110241

InfiniteJest said:


> View attachment 682949
> 
> 
> Not so happy Halloween. Winter's in the air. At least the bees are done though.



The winter is near 
We got our first snow a week ago, then it started to rain and we´re back to mud.


----------



## Timber1972

flying pig said:


> That’s too funny Timber I’m out in Beaverlodge. We had a few days last winter that we’re that cold and we worked them at the mill because it was the only time off the regular jobs we had. Our mill is in a low spot north of Beaverlodge and it can be ten or more degrees colder down in there than in town at times.


I do some tree care work for the town. You do custom milling work? There are times when we might do a removal or two with some decent wood for milling.

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## flying pig

Timber1972 said:


> I do some tree care work for the town. You do custom milling work? There are times when we might do a removal or two with some decent wood for milling.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


Yes you bet we are still setting up, bought a hydraulic mill last spring but we are running an old Belsaw until we get it up and running. We’d definitely appreciate any wood we can get, salvage isn’t easy to come by!


----------



## InfiniteJest

flying pig said:


> Overnight lows of -16*c forecast here this week Infinite. It is welcome for us, means we won’t have mud for a few months. Won’t have much daylight either but oh well, it’s a little give/take thing...



Yeah, leaving and getting home in the dark sucks, especially only working faller's hours.


----------



## Timber1972

Yeah when we are down to almost 6 hours of daylight it can be tough to prune or fall or even worse rig some trees out for removals. Especially having to clean up in the snow.

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## flying pig

I’m planning on falling in daylight and trying to skid and possibly mill at night this winter. Anything mechanical especially stuff out of the woods can get done in the dark. Every little bit helps.


----------



## flying pig

Winter’s here...


----------



## woodfarmer

Yes it is. Starting into some nice Oak


----------



## InfiniteJest

Back in black. There's a tiny pink hard hat down there somewhere pulling a strip up the ridge.


----------



## flying pig

Well, wish me luck guys. Tomorrow is my last day at my regular job. Going to try logging and sawing on my own for a month and see how it goes. The company I’ve been with this last year is pushing up daisies, and pipeline skids are at a record high (the ones my former employer just sold at auction went for average $8.31/unit or $$1.04 a bd ft). At that rate running my old mill and iron in my timber lot I should be able to make over $1000 a day by myself, so I’m going to test my luck for a few weeks and see where I end up. If all else fails I’ve had over a dozen job offers, trades people are in crazy high demand up here right now. 

Picture is the inglorious part of starting up on your own....


----------



## Skeans

Nothing like being in a patch of (pick your favorite word) wood that’s been stunted by root rot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## northmanlogging

flying pig said:


> View attachment 687216
> Well, wish me luck guys. Tomorrow is my last day at my regular job. Going to try logging and sawing on my own for a month and see how it goes. The company I’ve been with this last year is pushing up daisies, and pipeline skids are at a record high (the ones my former employer just sold at auction went for average $8.31/unit or $$1.04 a bd ft). At that rate running my old mill and iron in my timber lot I should be able to make over $1000 a day by myself, so I’m going to test my luck for a few weeks and see where I end up. If all else fails I’ve had over a dozen job offers, trades people are in crazy high demand up here right now.
> 
> Picture is the inglorious part of starting up on your own....



Giver some wah!


----------



## InfiniteJest

The rigging crew wanted to stop for a photo shoot on the way out today.


----------



## woodfarmer

W


flying pig said:


> View attachment 687216
> Well, wish me luck guys. Tomorrow is my last day at my regular job. Going to try logging and sawing on my own for a month and see how it goes. The company I’ve been with this last year is pushing up daisies, and pipeline skids are at a record high (the ones my former employer just sold at auction went for average $8.31/unit or $$1.04 a bd ft). At that rate running my old mill and iron in my timber lot I should be able to make over $1000 a day by myself, so I’m going to test my luck for a few weeks and see where I end up. If all else fails I’ve had over a dozen job offers, trades people are in crazy high demand up here right now.
> 
> Picture is the inglorious part of starting up on your own....


what are they buying for skids?


----------



## woodfarmer

InfiniteJest said:


> View attachment 687396
> 
> 
> The rigging crew wanted to stop for a photo shoot on the way out today.


So why do they clear cut out west, instead of select cutting?


----------



## Skeans

woodfarmer said:


> So why do they clear cut out west, instead of select cutting?



We do both, clear cut need to be done one for fire breaks two everything has a life span.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## flying pig

woodfarmer said:


> W
> 
> what are they buying for skids?




4x6x48 poplar by the thousand. They had 11,000 skids at the sale. I thought that would have saturated the market a good bit but there really aren’t any rough cut mills up here anymore. None of the big guys like Wayerhauser or CanFor will do rough cut orders. There’s a great market for them. I thought I was doing good at $4.25 a piece, guess we need to price em up a little. Ha ha. At those prices my big timber can go to skids, not just scragg logs.


----------



## woodfarmer

It seems every video I watch they just clear cut everything. Google “ole lonely Doug” in BC. They cleared everything around him and just left him standing by himself.


----------



## woodfarmer

flying pig said:


> 4x6x48 poplar by the thousand. They had 11,000 skids at the sale. I thought that would have saturated the market a good bit but there really aren’t any rough cut mills up here anymore. None of the big guys like Wayerhauser or CanFor will do rough cut orders. There’s a great market for them. I thought I was doing good at $4.25 a piece, guess we need to price em up a little. Ha ha. At those prices my big timber can go to skids, not just scragg logs.


I should start cutting my poplar.


----------



## Skeans

woodfarmer said:


> It seems every video I watch they just clear cut everything. Google “ole lonely Doug” in BC. They cleared everything around him and just left him standing by himself.



The reason it seems like it is the rotation length in the PNW on some of company ground is around 40 years old on Doug fir. All I do is commercial thinning with a few smaller clear cuts a year.


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----------



## InfiniteJest

We do mostly select. This burned, so it gets mowed. Then the rehab starts.


----------



## northmanlogging

woodfarmer said:


> So why do they clear cut out west, instead of select cutting?



We do both, it's a management game in the end

In rough order...

Clear cut or burn...

Replant or cross yer fingers and hope knot weed or blackberries don't take over

Pre commercial thin, gets the junk out early

Commercial thin, takes the weaker trees out to make livin easier on the money trees

Clear cut... 

Rinse repeat as necessary

Clear cuts are also used for many other purposes, such as remedying disease issues, clear to replant a better suited species, fire suppression etc.

The benefits from a loggers standpoint is that clear cuts are pretty easy to work so money comes easy, where as thins are pretty difficult to perform, while they can be profitable it's still a pain.

I think folks just don't realize just how much thinning is done out here, because the clear cuts are so blatant on the hillsides no one can usually tell where the thins happen


----------



## woodfarmer

Up here it's all selective cut in the hardwoods as these take two or more generations to grow. This bush was last logged in the 50's with horses. The picture doesn't do the terrain justice, it's all rock just about every step. Some the size of a small Volkswagen. 
And this picture from the property across the road.


----------



## GilksTreeFelling

Been a bit since I did any amount of posting here. Been alot of rain and mud the past few months get a couple days in the woods followed by a couple wet week's. Trying to keep the lights on and keep the kidlets on the right path.

Finally managed to get some cutting in today. Couple of frozen maples, the one in the center, and there's a good size marm bout 6 18 "stems off the left of the pic.


----------



## GilksTreeFelling

Did a residential today. 50ft or so 24" across the cut. About 15' from the ne corner of the house causing alot of down draft on the owners chimney. Had a 15-20' window to shoot it thru, with the owners well on the right and a keeper tree to the left. Kinda boogered the back cut up a bit but she came down perfectly except the limbs held the butt end up 8' off the ground. You can see from the stump shot I narrowed the left side of the hold wood to get it to turn a bit from the keeper tree (in first pic it's the one on the right). Owner wants me back in the spring to do the smaller one dorectly behind his she'd (left one in the first pic)





.


----------



## woodfarmer

So why did you leave your saw in the cut when the tree started to fall?


----------



## GilksTreeFelling

Honestly, I wasn't sure if I was going to need to tickle the hold wood a bit more after tapping on the second wedge so left the saw in the cut. After the tree started moving I turned and scooted wasn't gonna wait and pull it while the tree was going over as I tend to not like sticking around the stump once it's falling.

I generally do not like to do trees that close to a house or with an audience across the road on a porch so was a little off my game a bit.


----------



## GilksTreeFelling

Well just got a text from the owner of the residential I did the other dat. He sent me this pic, took it this afternoon. He has a new guest at his place that he's never seen before and is quite happy both in the work I did, and the fact his chimney hasn't downdrafted at all.


----------



## Bwildered

Fell this one last week, 18 meters long x 0.6 meters average diameter = 5m3


----------



## rwoods

I know it is summer down under, but that looks tropical. What kind of tree is that? Ron


----------



## Bwildered

rwoods said:


> I know it is summer down under, but that looks tropical. What kind of tree is that? Ron


It's subtropical and the tree is a * Blackbutt (Eucalyptus Pilularis)*
To make things interesting in that wet forest there's a ground dwelling funnel web spiders nest every few meters, they are one of the worlds deadliest spider.


----------



## rwoods

I don’t like spiders or snakes. Wouldn’t mind cutting a few Blackbutt trees though. 

Hope you and all here have a Merry Christmas! 

Ron


----------



## Bwildered

rwoods said:


> I don’t like spiders or snakes. Wouldn’t mind cutting a few Blackbutt trees though.
> 
> Hope you and all here have a Merry Christmas!
> 
> Ron


Merry Christmas too


----------



## Trx250r180

Looks sort of like a cedar tree .


----------



## MilanRV

Beech wood, spruce and a nice find


----------



## rwoods

MilanRV, nice looking wood. What type of animal grew that antler - a deer, an elk or something else?

Every time I see your location I am reminded of a young lady I knew 40 years ago who was from your fine country. She was one of the kindest persons I ever met.

Ron


----------



## MilanRV

rwoods said:


> MilanRV, nice looking wood. What type of animal grew that antler - a deer, an elk or something else?
> 
> Every time I see your location I am reminded of a young lady I knew 40 years ago who was from your fine country. She was one of the kindest persons I ever met.
> 
> Ron


 Hello Ron, its from a red deer. Now its the season for finding antlers. 40 years? Thats a long time ago  czechoslovakia was my country back then  where meet you this lady??


----------



## rwoods

We both worked at one of the University of Tennessee's cafeterias while students. Ron


----------



## rwoods

For a hit and miss amateur firewood hack, I think I did a pretty good job this afternoon lining up and keeping this dying Ash out of the creek. Still can't hold a saw (or the camera) level though. 

My forearms are feeling it from pounding wedges. 

Ron


----------



## northmanlogging

rwoods said:


> For a hit and miss amateur firewood hack, I think I did a pretty good job this afternoon lining up and keeping this dying Ash out of the creek. Still can't hold a saw (or the camera) level though.
> 
> My forearms are feeling it from pounding wedges.
> 
> Ron
> 
> View attachment 696567


I mean, you could break down and buy a modern saw that is about 20 pounds lighter, wouldn't be nearly as much fun though.


----------



## rwoods

I am waiting on the 500i. Ron


----------



## rwoods

Besides it is a light weight compared to some of my saws. 



And I have spares. 



Ron


----------



## woodfarmer

Finally some cold weather to get back into the bush. This years ash won't grade out as well as last year.


----------



## rwoods

So what type of products are made with Ash?

Ron


----------



## Ronaldo

rwoods said:


> So what type of products are made with Ash?
> 
> Ron


Furniture, tool handles, etc.


----------



## bitzer

rwoods said:


> So what type of products are made with Ash?
> 
> Ron


Lumber(finish/rough), railroad ties, pallet stock. It's grain pattern looks like oak so can be used in exchange somewhat. My first thought is always baseball bats although how much wood really goes towards them?


----------



## rwoods

bitzer, 

Good to have you posting again. I think of you often as I remember you chastising me for falling trees for firewood that could have made saw logs. Lately I have cut some nice red oaks and a few nice white oaks. It pains me and I tell myself you would kill me, but we don’t have the equipment to save out the logs and don’t have enough saw logs in one place to interest someone who does.

Ron


----------



## woodfarmer

I’ve heard of some that wax the ends of the logs and store them up off the ground until they get a load.


----------



## rwoods

woodfarmer,

We don’t have the equipment to pick them up. My little tractor will only pickup around 1600# before the front end leaves terra firma. Our little tractor with a fel quits around 1500#. I saved a 17’ straight and limbless White Oak stem for a whiskey barrel plant. It weighs around 8000#. Been several months and no one has showed up to get it, yet. 

Ron


----------



## bitzer

rwoods said:


> bitzer,
> 
> Good to have you posting again. I think of you often as I remember you chastising me for falling trees for firewood that could have made saw logs. Lately I have cut some nice red oaks and a few nice white oaks. It pains me and I tell myself you would kill me, but we don’t have the equipment to save out the logs and don’t have enough saw logs in one place to interest someone who does.
> 
> Ron


It's funny how a guy remembers things like that. Yeah I thought as the kids got older I would have more free time. Not so! With the games and practices and academic and school events it seems never ending. I love them to death tho and I'm trying to soak it all up because I know they'll be gone before I know it. 

As for that tractor you've got, I once pounded out 6 loads of logs and pulp in one week with a 45hp tractor that just had pallet forks. True it was flat and the skid was pretty short but a lot of the trees were 20-30" on the butt. Hard maple and oak. I bucked them all in the woods(per usual for me) and the big ones I could only grab one at a time. The biggest I had to drag. Then I decked them all as tall as I could for the trucks. Like you mentioned the biggest thing is having enough. Sure you can stock pile them and wax the ends but there's a lot of time and dedication there that may not add up. That tractor would pick up 1000lbs on it's best day . It was a wet December and I couldn't run the skidder.


----------



## rwoods

For firewood we try to avoid skidding due to the dirt eating chains. Below is my toy tractor this Fall at max with a 1650# log. Can only steer going forward by using the brakes. As muddy as this winter has been, can hardly go anywhere now. I have since rigged it up with some dolly wheels so I can load heavier chunks on level ground but I still can't move much in the mud. Heavy logs with their swinging leverage are too dangerous with our small equipment. Side slopes are killers too. Ron


----------



## Skeans

Our truck driver lives only a few miles from our job got this surprise yesterday morning.


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----------



## MilanRV

Beech wood again  in cold weather( -22•C)


----------



## bitzer

MilanRV said:


> Beech wood again  in cold weather( -22•C)


Those are some really nice beech for that size. Mine would be all hollow


----------



## bitzer

Skeans said:


> Our truck driver lives only a few miles from our job got this surprise yesterday morning.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That happens here about 9 months out of the year


----------



## Skeans

bitzer said:


> That happens here about 9 months out of the year



You guys can keep it


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## InfiniteJest

bitzer said:


> That happens here about 9 months out of the year



How's things out your way Bob? Getting tired of the white crap here.


----------



## bitzer

InfiniteJest said:


> How's things out your way Bob? Getting tired of the white crap here.


It's been a weird winter. It got cold early in November but every weekend it would warm up enough to rain and then stay just cold enough to work during the week but never froze. That went on until late January when we got our first big snow(10" which really isn't that big) and then we got temps in the -20s. -25 was the lowest I saw at home. -50 something with the wind. Then 3 days later it's in the 40s and rain again. Now we're back to winter. Very weird. You?


----------



## bitzer

Skeans said:


> You guys can keep it
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


June, July, and August are the only months I haven't seen snow here. Then it'll just be 90 something with 90 percent humidity.


----------



## InfiniteJest

We've been about on the exact same track here. Somebody definitely turned on the snow last week though. "Normal" winter was just late getting here I guess. If it stays in the twenties, I'll be happy. The -0 to +50 pinball gets old in a hurry.


----------



## bitzer

InfiniteJest said:


> We've been about on the exact same track here. Somebody definitely turned on the snow last week though. "Normal" winter was just late getting here I guess. If it stays in the twenties, I'll be happy. The -0 to +50 pinball gets old in a hurry.


Right? All I want is a week of clear 20s & 30s. Its either super frickin cold and the wind blowing like a banshee or there's some kind of rain/sleet/freezing rain/slop snow mix coming down . I feel an extended winter into April coming on. Our last snow last year was mid April. Frost in the ground til almost May. The up down ******** is hard on a guy.


----------



## Tannerbob

Big temp changes is normal for us. Our cold isn't near as bad as you guys up north but we had almost 70 on Thursday then freezing rain that night and in the 20s since the rain


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## flying pig

We’ve been in the deep freeze hard for about three weeks, we got close to -50 for a few days. Glad I’ve been too busy working, there would have been a lot of damaged wood if I had tried logging. 

Back in the late 70’s, early 80’s Dad said he loved this weather. He got payed by the log to the landing, everything was still tree length here so the only time he got to buck trees was if they broke. He made more money, but he was definitely the only one who did.


----------



## northmanlogging

084 is about broke in...


----------



## Saiso

MilanRV said:


> Beech wood again  in cold weather( -22•C)


Wooow! Our beeches don’t get that nice and big. Beech bark disease gets to it or/and winter abuses them. How old do you reckon those are? Where are you located?


----------



## bitzer

northmanlogging said:


> 084 is about broke in...



Hahaha awesome man! Scaring the piss out of the locals.


----------



## northmanlogging

We've only had a few complaints...

This is right by a very busy street, thurs day we caused an accident... looky lous ran into eachother... 


I love my job..


----------



## bitzer

Swamp ash


----------



## Skeans

bitzer said:


> Swamp ash
> 
> View attachment 719585
> 
> 
> View attachment 719587



Looks like fun makes me miss hand falling some days.


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----------



## bitzer

Skeans said:


> Looks like fun makes me miss hand falling some days.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Just some days tho right? Haha


----------



## rwoods

Let me guess - on those clear 40 to 50 degree dry ground days. Ron


----------



## Skeans

bitzer said:


> Just some days tho right? Haha





rwoods said:


> Let me guess - on those clear 40 to 50 degree dry ground days. Ron



It’s nice working all the time and honestly the days of hand cutting are numbered here. There’s a local company here they had their cutting crew come from 3 hours one way to keep them on all the time. Till the state sets the rules on the slope for tethering there’s probably not much work for a guy with a saw other then small private jobs or oversize.


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----------



## bitzer

Skeans said:


> It’s nice working all the time and honestly the days of hand cutting are numbered here. There’s a local company here they had their cutting crew come from 3 hours one way to keep them on all the time. Till the state sets the rules on the slope for tethering there’s probably not much work for a guy with a saw other then small private jobs or oversize.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


There is still plenty of timber to hand cut around here. I cut mostly woodlots surrounded by farm fields. 10-40 acre parcels usually. I've been in a lot of timber in the past 5 years that I never would have had access to if it wasn't for EAB. The majority of the harvest are MFL pieces but I do cut private non-MFL sales and state sales. A county sale here and there too. Most are 5-50 truckloads. If I was to employ people I would need more wood and eventually a mechanized side which would eventually lead in to constantly chasing the small wood. I'm happy with where I'm at right now as long as my body can handle it.


----------



## bitzer




----------



## Skeans

bitzer said:


> There is still plenty of timber to hand cut around here. I cut mostly woodlots surrounded by farm fields. 10-40 acre parcels usually. I've been in a lot of timber in the past 5 years that I never would have had access to if it wasn't for EAB. The majority of the harvest are MFL pieces but I do cut private non-MFL sales and state sales. A county sale here and there too. Most are 5-50 truckloads. If I was to employ people I would need more wood and eventually a mechanized side which would eventually lead in to constantly chasing the small wood. I'm happy with where I'm at right now as long as my body can handle it.



They’ve brought the rotation times to so fast around here there’s not enough private ground left to keep a guy running everyday, wish we had some more managed lands but it’s all company grounds out here with a little state.


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----------



## Woody912

bitzer said:


> Swamp ash
> 
> View attachment 719585
> 
> 
> View attachment 719587


same here but your stump is purtier. Why the 2 step Humboldt?


----------



## bitzer

Woody912 said:


> same here but your stump is purtier. Why the 2 step Humboldt?


The second is a snipe to get the butt down on the ground. The face causes the hinge to break and the snipe sends the butt to the ground. The crotch was a little sideways with the direction I needed the tree to go. So in order keep it from splitting when it hit I got the butt down on the ground asap which causes the tree to lay out more slowly vs. A conventional that would have the top hit first or at the same time as the rest of the tree. When the butt hits the tree drags and then starts to fall distributing the weight and force more evenly as it goes down.


----------



## bitzer

bitzer said:


> View attachment 719643


Anyone wonder what they were shooting at? It's been there a long time. Even the nock was gone. That's probably 25' up the tree.


----------



## Woody912

bitzer said:


> The second is a snipe to get the butt down on the ground. The face causes the hinge to break and the snipe sends the butt to the ground. The crotch was a little sideways with the direction I needed the tree to go. So in order keep it from splitting when it hit I got the butt down on the ground asap which causes the tree to lay out more slowly vs. A conventional that would have the top hit first or at the same time as the rest of the tree. When the butt hits the tree drags and then starts to fall distributing the weight and force more evenly as it goes down.



Brother has a 24" walnut sitting on a steep hill which will have to be cut about 3' above ground due to wire. Told him if I cut it we will do a Humboldt for just that reason but I still can't guarantee it won't split when it hits the ground. Does zero temps increase the odds of a split???


----------



## RandyMac

hippies


----------



## bitzer

RandyMac said:


> hippies


Well I ain't too far from Madison


----------



## bitzer

Woody912 said:


> Brother has a 24" walnut sitting on a steep hill which will have to be cut about 3' above ground due to wire. Told him if I cut it we will do a Humboldt for just that reason but I still can't guarantee it won't split when it hits the ground. Does zero temps increase the odds of a split???


Some say it does. I'm not sure I really agree much. If you hit it hard enough to split it, it splits . It does seem like the hinge breaks off easier and trees definitely don't swing as well when below zero.

If I were you put the Humboldt in and then a steep snipe and the butt should hit first giving you your best chance. Leave smaller trees stand or cripple them up to fall when they get hit to cushion the fall. Sometimes all you can do is all you can do. Any chance of sidehilling? Even quartered down the hill can be better then straight down.


----------



## bitzer

Kind of like this white oak but put the snipe right in line with the face. The skid mark clearly shows where that butt headed


----------



## catbuster

In my experience, trees are a little more brittle below freezing. Kinda makes sense, trees are mostly water with no exothermic process to keep them warm like we do, water freezes, ice is brittle.

It’s not that simple, and I really don’t think trees split along the fibers and would be liable to chair any more than when it’s warm. Trees split weird when they hit the ground all time from interior rot, included bark, codominant stems on a lot of midwest/southeast hardwoods-think Shagbark Hickory, or Sycamore is really bad about splitting too. Now, admittedly I have a lot to learn about production falling because, well, I’m a hazard tree guy and a fire guy.

I would tell him that it’s more likely especially with the gear you have listed in your signiature so you can wait for a warmer day.


----------



## Woody912

catbuster said:


> In my experience, trees are a little more brittle below freezing. Kinda makes sense, trees are mostly water with no exothermic process to keep them warm like we do, water freezes, ice is brittle.
> 
> It’s not that simple, and I really don’t think trees split along the fibers and would be liable to chair any more than when it’s warm. Trees split weird when they hit the ground all time from interior rot, included bark, codominant stems on a lot of midwest/southeast hardwoods-think Shagbark Hickory, or Sycamore is really bad about splitting too. Now, admittedly I have a lot to learn about production falling because, well, I’m a hazard tree guy and a fire guy.
> 
> I would tell him that it’s more likely especially with the gear you have listed in your signiature so you can wait for a warmer day.



Very surprised that sycamore is on your bad to split list. From a firewood standpoint I can only say that -20 is about the only time I can get the stuff to split with a maul and a wedge. 40 degrees and it is as bad as red elm. Only tree I have ever chaired was a locust and I knew it was going to happen, I have yanked and yanked on back leaning cherry with a truck and never been able to make one chair.


----------



## RandyMac

'chair 'em for the noise of it


----------



## bitzer

Woody912 said:


> Very surprised that sycamore is on your bad to split list. From a firewood standpoint I can only say that -20 is about the only time I can get the stuff to split with a maul and a wedge. 40 degrees and it is as bad as red elm. Only tree I have ever chaired was a locust and I knew it was going to happen, I have yanked and yanked on back leaning cherry with a truck and never been able to make one chair.


I don't have sycamore here. Cherry's will chair. Typically they split then break off tho. They like to bust when bucking and they will shatter/shear when they hit the ground hard enough or get hit by another tree. Ash and red oak break/shear easily when they hit the ground. Hickory and elm will split upon impact but often won't break. They also make the worst springpoles. I've had elm and hickory springpoles 14" in diameter whereas most other species would have snapped off from the pressure.


----------



## bitzer

RandyMac said:


> 'chair 'em for the noise of it


----------



## RandyMac

yep, like that, good job!


----------



## catbuster

Most big, older Sycamores will have a lot of heart rot, there’s not much left and they’ll split, not so much in an chair but more where the tree just collapses in on itself.

If I start my face and start getting junk out from the side cover I’ll usually try to get an excavator in and just make a few cuts and push it over. Not everyone has that luxury, though.


----------



## RandyMac

Hi guys


----------



## northmanlogging

RandyMac said:


> Hi guys



I see yer not ded yet


----------



## RandyMac

not by a long ****ing shot
How are ya?


----------



## rwoods

I know you are tough as nails, but my heart goes out to you with your recent loss. Glad to see you are keeping an eye on this bunch. Ron


----------



## RandyMac

Thank you Ron.
I am keeping busy. My OG Redwood bar, 2''x28''x10', milled from a leftover log from 1905, hauled in my '96 Ranger.


----------



## rwoods

That should make a heck of a bar. Ron


----------



## RandyMac

It helps being near the source, $300 for a custom job.


----------



## rwoods

Don’t know what it would be here, but a lot more. I assume it will have a nice red color. 

When I was a kid, I helped my dad build a small country store. He built the counter with an OG pine top about that same size. Not knowing any better I took wood like that for granted. Business didn’t pan out well with the advent of convience stores so he sold it, counter and all, to a Danish carpenter who converted the store into a residence. I would love to have that counter top now. 

The exterior of the store was sided with western cedar shim shingles We culled every bundle with the clear shingles going on the roof. Inside was paneled with eastern red cedar cut off my grandfather’s land.

Ron


----------



## Ancient One

Barber Chair: The 'Ol boys up here, when working with big Alder, wrap a nice stout chain around the trunk above the saw cut. Tighten it up real tight with a chain binder. Keeps the Alders from splitting/barber chairing. Alder is bad about splitting above the cut.


----------



## northmanlogging

RandyMac said:


> not by a long ****ing shot
> How are ya?


A little shorter a little fatter... few more sexy scars


----------



## bitzer

Very, very few trees in very specific circumstances ever need a chain wrapped around them.


----------



## Trx250r180

RandyMac said:


> Thank you Ron.
> I am keeping busy. My OG Redwood bar, 2''x28''x10', milled from a leftover log from 1905, hauled in my '96 Ranger.


Nice work sir.


----------



## MilanRV

Saiso said:


> Wooow! Our beeches don’t get that nice and big. Beech bark disease gets to it or/and winter abuses them. How old do you reckon those are? Where are you located?


I am from europe, Slovakia. This wood is around 200 years old. Thats normal size for beech wood here  my record pieces are much bigger


----------



## MilanRV

bitzer said:


> Those are some really nice beech for that size. Mine would be all hollow


 Have you a special use for them?


----------



## Saiso

MilanRV said:


> I am from europe, Slovakia. This wood is around 200 years old. Thats normal size for beech wood here  my record pieces are much bigger


I’ve read about them. Wow, I wouldn’t want to leave the forest. I’m known at work to love trees and more specifically, tolerant hardwood species like this beech. Curious, what type of beech is this? Is there only the one? We have fagus grandifolia.


----------



## MilanRV

Saiso said:


> I’ve read about them. Wow, I wouldn’t want to leave the forest. I’m known at work to love trees and more specifically, tolerant hardwood species like this beech. Curious, what type of beech is this? Is there only the one? We have fagus grandifolia.


This is fagus sylvatica, we have here the grandifolia too. Beech is the most common hardwood here. Then are oak, ash, maple and others.


----------



## Saiso

MilanRV said:


> This is fagus sylvatica, we have here the grandifolia too. Beech is the most common hardwood here. Then are oak, ash, maple and others.


Ok, gonna try to convince my wife to leave for Slovakia and nearby countries tomorrow. Must be beautiful. We also have beech, ash and oak, but everything’s being cut so private landowners with such stands are lucky. Someone at work owns 200+ acres, 60+ of tolerant hardwood only (Sugar maple, yellow birch, beech) and he cuts that for his firewood.  Typical for some part of the province, but still, they’re so nice!!


----------



## RandyMac

northmanlogging said:


> A little shorter a little fatter... few more sexy scars



I'm getting taller, stronger and better looking.
Last few years weren't good.


----------



## Westboastfaller

catbuster said:


> In my experience, trees are a little more brittle below freezing. Kinda makes sense, trees are mostly water with no exothermic process to keep them warm like we do, water freezes, ice is brittle.
> 
> It’s not that simple, and I really don’t think trees split along the fibers and would be liable to chair any more than when it’s warm



Pretty much agree with all this in the cold environments that would be off coast where I have 'logged in' approx 6000 winner SAW hours. The wood is likely just really tough up that way. pretty much you are only going to b-chair if you left to much hinge and you hit with your next row. That's usually Just Pine. Not the Aspen, Birch or Cottonwood...they are bullet proof. Prehaps because they do break off easier? BC Fallers speaks of this and it may be true. (Although I have fell everywhere and in all seasons in BC) Now if you Fell cottonwoods all winter in Central BC and went to the coast the next day to fall the same species of cotton wood that is not frozen wood then you may get killed that day from a chair. Yeah that should be in the book more importantly. BUT it's NOT. Along with anything about falling on the west coast.
Books a guide line. 
Big difference between -20c and -40 c 
Just like metal, after -35+ things snap.
------------

Right! Trees are endothermic 



'Heated from the sun' A heat energy from without.


----------



## Westboastfaller

posted too early ....^^^^
Through photosynthesis it brings in a light energy so it's endorthemic.
If it has ice in the tree and it's starts melting from outward warmer temps it's a endorthemic process 

How about this one?
The tree cell survives the cold by displacing the water away from the cells.
There is more energy in water than ice but when the water freezes the energy is released into a heat.
Would that not make trees in cold environments exothermic in the winter
How about if I told you a $40,000 heat detector installed in a helicopter to find bear dens so we don't run over anymore with mulchers ..but It just kept picking up the heat of the spruce trees at -30 c in one January?


----------



## Trx250r180

I thought i had a dull chain once ,the fir tree was just frozen.

Hullo Jamie 

Tl:dr


----------



## bitzer




----------



## rwoods

Looks like it fell pretty much where you pointed it. Ron


----------



## flying pig

Goes to show you gotta be ready for anything!


----------



## rwoods

bitzer has a longer bar so I believe that was intentional. Ron


----------



## bitzer

rwoods said:


> bitzer has a longer bar so I believe that was intentional. Ron


Yes sir! Very hard leaning and top heavy sugar maple. It went faster then I thought tho. The little back cut on this side of camera was all it took. Cleaned up pic...


----------



## bitzer

Let's see your stalactite...


----------



## flying pig

I got a couple of them forming today, but from cutting I beam rather than sharpening chain. Getting a good start on setting up our new mill finally after spending 90 days in camp with only 10 days at home so far this year. So sick of spinning wrenches on other people’s stuff. Also brought my new Skidder home yesterday.


----------



## bitzer

Which ways it leaning?


----------



## InfiniteJest

Not sure Bob....been to busy trying to figure this one out the last 9 days. Just got back to the northern reality tonight though. Hope all's well pard.


----------



## rwoods

bitzer said:


> Which ways it leaning?
> 
> View attachment 724207



Every which way. Nothing a triple hinge, tongue and groove euro reverse bore cut can't handle. Ron


----------



## catbuster

rwoods said:


> Every which way. Nothing a triple hinge, tongue and groove euro reverse bore cut can't handle. Ron


----------



## bitzer

InfiniteJest said:


> View attachment 724230
> 
> 
> Not sure Bob....been to busy trying to figure this one out the last 9 days. Just got back to the northern reality tonight though. Hope all's well pard.


I bet that was an awesome change of pace. Where did you go?


----------



## bitzer

rwoods said:


> Every which way. Nothing a triple hinge, tongue and groove euro reverse bore cut can't handle. Ron


About right. Few taps of a wedge and I figured out it needed a little sawing on the face to get it moving. Thank God it was dead calm. Ended up with a 10fter and four 8' sawlogs. Plus 3 more 8' pulp sticks. The tree is completely rolled over in the pic. The hold wood is 180 from where it was standing.


----------



## Woody912

bitzer said:


> About right. Few taps of a wedge and I figured out it needed a little sawing on the face to get it moving. Thank God it was dead calm. Ended up with a 10fter and four 8' sawlogs. Plus 3 more 8' pulp sticks. The tree is completely rolled over in the pic. The hold wood is 180 from where it was standing.
> 
> View attachment 724544



I spent about 1/2 hour last week trying to figure out how to cut the flat places out of one of those. Ended up with 2 12's and 3 not very good 8's but got paid for 'em. Probably made me an extra $.03/hr!


----------



## bitzer

Woody912 said:


> I spent about 1/2 hour last week trying to figure out how to cut the flat places out of one of those. Ended up with 2 12's and 3 not very good 8's but got paid for 'em. Probably made me an extra $.03/hr!


Yeah they can take some doing sometimes to really utilize


----------



## InfiniteJest

bitzer said:


> I bet that was an awesome change of pace. Where did you go?



Florida gulf coast. Pretty nice, but glad to get back home to the canyon.


----------



## Woody912

bitzer said:


> Yeah they can take some doing sometimes to really utilize



Almost did not put those 3 top logs on the load and then got to the sawmill and looked at some of the crooked stuff in their yard and decided I worry too much! They got really low on inventory this winter, not very good working conditions in the woods


----------



## rwoods

This picture was over in the firewood thread. One of the dangers of a toy tractor that I had not previously considered. 

Ron 



dancan said:


> View attachment 724930


----------



## Skeans

rwoods said:


> This picture was over in the firewood thread. One of the dangers of a toy tractor that I had not previously considered.
> 
> Ron



Looks like a good way to check the diffs Ron.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## InfiniteJest

The easy way to put tire chains on.


----------



## bitzer

InfiniteJest said:


> Florida gulf coast. Pretty nice, but glad to get back home to the canyon.


I've never been on the gulf side. After the winter we've had I'd be ok with just about anywhere warmer for a few. That gets for boring to me after a while tho too.


----------



## Skeans

bitzer said:


> Little bear trap action
> 
> I've never been on the gulf side. After the winter we've had I'd be ok with just about anywhere warmer for a few. That gets for boring to me after a while tho too.



Time to come out for PLC?


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## bitzer

Skeans said:


> Time to come out for PLC?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What's plc?


----------



## bitzer

Heres that bear trap action


----------



## Skeans

bitzer said:


> What's plc?



Pacific logging conference held every 2 years in the later part of September it’s a live demo show.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bitzer

Man the auto correct on this site sucks. Yeah I'd love to come out to the pnw. I want to see the tall trees. Cutting them would be better


----------



## RandyMac

I'll be in the trees this weekend, been removing a ''grow'' from a friends tree farm.


----------



## rwoods

Don't get yourself shot. Ron


----------



## Woody912

I just love them rootwad blowdowns. Cheaper than Planet Fitness I guess. Honey locust, think it is the heaviest wood I have ever cut.


----------



## bitzer

rwoods said:


> Don't get yourself shot. Ron


Murder mountain- I'm sure that documentary is a little over dramatic. Some of those idiots, holy ****.


----------



## bitzer

Woody912 said:


> I just love them rootwad blowdowns. Cheaper than Planet Fitness I guess. Honey locust, think it is the heaviest wood I have ever cut.View attachment 725195
> View attachment 725197


It's less fun when every tree you cut has been blown down on top of each other, twisted together, broken off, and under pressure for months. But yes I'll agree there is some fun to be had in blowdown.


----------



## rwoods

I enjoy the challenge of the isolated big diameter stem and root ball. Interlocking blowdowns not so much. Ron


----------



## Skeans

These are of some stuff we did some time back I hate blow down it’s spooky stuff.


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----------



## bitzer

Yep tornado came thru late August. I did blow down from November until March and I didn't even take on the big jobs. I passed on a huge one because I didn't want to be in there forever.


----------



## bitzer

Hard on the equipment too. When it started freezing the balls wouldn't go back and in order to not wreck chains constantly I had to buck them and come back around with the forwarder and pick them up. I've got some good videos too if I'd ever put a YouTube channel together.


----------



## Skeans

bitzer said:


> Hard on the equipment too. When it started freezing the balls wouldn't go back and in order to not wreck chains constantly I had to buck them and come back around with the forwarder and pick them up. I've got some good videos too if I'd ever put a YouTube channel together.
> 
> View attachment 725471
> 
> View attachment 725472
> 
> 
> View attachment 725473



A little 7018 some colorful words a hammer it’ll iron out no problem.


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----------



## catbuster

Skeans said:


> A little 7018 some colorful words a hammer it’ll iron out no problem.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I think I may be a little serious for that post, but I usually run 11018 on equipment repair with some preheat and postheat. Unless I know what it is. Too much high strength steel in equipment for me to accidentally undermatch.


----------



## Skeans

catbuster said:


> I think I may be a little serious for that post, but I usually run 11018 on equipment repair with some preheat and postheat. Unless I know what it is. Too much high strength steel in equipment for me to accidentally undermatch.



Most high strength and tool steel is welded with under matching filler. 
And honestly it was more of a joke then a fix.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## northmanlogging

I am no welder, 7018 covers just about everything for equipment repair, unless yer working on impliments buckets, grapples etc. 

7018, should be stronger then even high tensile used in machines, 11018 as about on par with cutting edges and the like, and makes a good go between the hard edges and relatively soft structure.

The real issue with that boom, is just a simple weld probably isn't going to last, that whole joint needs cut off and rebuilt


----------



## bitzer

It's been back together for months now. I did all the grinding and hired a guy to burn it up. Took him about 45 minutes. I didn't have anywhere to plug in a welder of my own on this one. I broke it once before years ago in huge timber and the landowner had a 220 plug in his shed and I did it there.


----------



## Woody912

shame to see that red oak timber trashed like that. I don't think my man parts are big enough to tackle that puzzle!



bitzer said:


> Hard on the equipment too. When it started freezing the balls wouldn't go back and in order to not wreck chains constantly I had to buck them and come back around with the forwarder and pick them up. I've got some good videos too if I'd ever put a YouTube channel together.
> 
> View attachment 725471
> 
> View attachment 725472
> 
> 
> View attachment 725473


----------



## catbuster

I’m not here to start a welding argument, but there’s an awful lot of T-1 and A514/572/656 grades of steel used in modern equipment, plenty of 4130 and 4340 too. 7018 is a great rod, and it works well on most mild steels, but I burn a lot of 8018-B2 and 11018 and use a lot of ER80-SD2 TIG wire in our shop, with a fair amount of pre and post heat. 

It’s not that 7018 won’t work, and I probably weld it more than any other rod, but I’m leery of welding and severly undermatching grade 100 material. Sometimes it’s fine because the manufacturer used chromoly or A572 for abrasion resistance. Anyway, I weld way too damn much and probably should have just not said anything.


----------



## northmanlogging

Yer all good Catbuster, just T1 ar100 etc etc etc is fairly expensive and made more for abrasion resistance then anything, So I don't see manufactures using it anywhere its not absolutely needed, even then They really don't use enough,

Chrom Moly alloys aren't really all that hard, just tough and flexible. 

Gotta remember they don't really need to concern themselves with weight, as a heavy machine generally is a good thing, so they can get away with just using more mild steel vs a thinner but much more expensive alloyed or high carbon version

When in doubt spark test it.

Also most of the machines I've had the misfortune to weld on, the steel has been fairly soft, there is a notable diferance grinding tool steels and chrome molly steels vs plain ole mild steel


----------



## catbuster

Back when the machine/welding part of the shop was way oversized for the operation we had we took in a lot of motorsport work, and welded a lot of thin 4130 tubing with the Dynasty 200 I had, and still have, or the other TIG machines we ran for roll cages/chassis. It always blew my mind how strong that stuff was but how brittle the heat affected zone was. Not the weld itself, even undermatching with ER70 wire we still had all our failures (for destructive testing/welder qualification) as cracks in the HAZ. But as soon as you normalized it it didn’t matter if you welded it with ER70, ER80 or 309 it was all good.

I don’t like to machine Chromoly either, but that’s for another time.


----------



## Jacob J.

rwoods said:


> This picture was over in the firewood thread. One of the dangers of a toy tractor that I had not previously considered.
> 
> Ron



I saw that picture on Facebook and thought that it was real interesting that they got that tractor to the stump without making any real tracks in the snow.


----------



## MilanRV

Maple this time


----------



## bitzer

Nice sticks man! I've been in some nice soft maple lately


----------



## Skeans

bitzer said:


> Nice sticks man! I've been in some nice soft maple lately
> 
> View attachment 728240
> 
> 
> View attachment 728241



Cutting 40’s out of the straight sticks?


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----------



## bitzer

Skeans said:


> Cutting 40’s out of the straight sticks?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Nope everything is always set up for random length. Forwarder, trucks, mill, etc. I got four 12' and one 10' log out of it.


----------



## young bucker

Happy fundays up in Creasy bay..west coast Canada..


----------



## bitzer

Did you knock the mess over with another one or cut the bigger one and she went?


----------



## young bucker

bitzer said:


> Did you knock the mess over with another one or cut the bigger one and she went?


I cut and strapped everything up and had another hammer to knock it all down..it went over slow and I was able to buck the majority of it.


----------



## Westboastfaller

young bucker said:


> I cut and strapped everything up and had another hammer to knock it all down..it went over slow and I was able to buck the majority of it.


They're "vertical snaps" "snap straps" "snap cuts" "compression snaps" "drop snaps" "vertical straps". When you say you "cut and strapped everything up" then it's not going to make sense to most readers without further explanation.


----------



## bitzer

I got exactly what he meant. I personally do not like leaving straps because it adds extra wood to break unless for some reason the whole mess is going to go while you're under it and you have to leave one. You leave too much and start building a teepee you can get in trouble in a hurry and your day is going from bad to ********. That and bucking gets to be a real bich and you're kicking yourself.


----------



## young bucker

You’re defiantly right about the straps and the wood they hold..I got lucky on those because they’re basically standing straight and the bullet I had lined up would easily do the job..and no one likes making man made teepees out of 1oo+ ft gouty cedars.


----------



## Saiso

My friend and I started cutting a spruce stand halfway to the cabin. Just two guys with a pulp hook. Gonna try to rig up the truck with a chain or mount a winch. Great day 

A lot of stuff to do here still. Many more trees on the other side of the road. We’re gonna be having fun here for a while


----------



## northmanlogging

Just a good day in dog hair, cutting short logs, mostly pulp


----------



## Skeans

It’s nice to be out of some dog hair finally.


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## Alu

Nice and tight felling !


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## InfiniteJest

Last one of the week. Filthy with road dust. 19 miles from my front door. Kind of odd to go home every night. 




Tried out something different with the work truck.




I'll have a little more room for any firewood the processor operator sets out.


----------



## InfiniteJest

Some decent fir and pine today.
Have a great Independence day.


----------



## flying pig

Breaking in my new 572 and loving it!


----------



## InfiniteJest

Getting kind of slammed between yarder duty and a pile of right of way. Took the wife and the hound dog up Sunday morning to get things squared up for the yarder. Wife snapped a couple photos. A good time was had by all.


----------



## InfiniteJest

Whoops, forgot the pic with the old hound dog!


----------



## rwoods

IJ, beautiful country. Ron


----------



## Skeans

Took a week or so off to go to Leavenworth, WA beautiful country but someone could sure tell the government on how to clear cut vs burn the ground.






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----------



## InfiniteJest

rwoods said:


> IJ, beautiful country. Ron



Yeah, the old Montana joke "your wages are paid in scenery."

Can't eat the view though.


----------



## northmanlogging

little siswheel fun with high stakes


----------



## InfiniteJest

Pretty sweet when the guys can tie to the other side and I don't have to worry about breaks. Saves some extra leg work.


----------



## flying pig

Some of this aspen can sure be spooky junk sometimes


----------



## northmanlogging

Gots me a new diameter record, spruce above the swell


----------



## northmanlogging




----------



## catbuster

“Let’s hope I don’t crush the cummies, there’s a house right there.”


----------



## northmanlogging

Well that record didn't last long


----------



## catbuster

God damn, you’re getting into wood that’s close to having the diameter be as big as I am tall.


----------



## northmanlogging

Sadly that's the last one for awhile.

Weird to sink a 32" bar into a Doug fir that looks tiny, only to realize it's as big or bigger then anything I've cut for the month prior...

Timber on this site is massive, but pretty much all junk too


----------



## catbuster

It seems like once the wood out your way gets over 42-48 they start to get junky, heart rot, huge branches and knots, yada yada.

The “timber” here usually has maybe twenty or thirty good feet in it and then the tops break out where they fan out. They’re annoying because they’ll lean one way and have the weight going another so you have to guess what’s the controlling force. Then you get it wrong, go “oh ****” and have to wedge it off your bar and then jack it over... Might have happened recently... Like, you know, Tuesday.


----------



## northmanlogging

Most of this patch is Western Hemlock, which is pretty much worthless right now anyway, and all of it is getting diseased and rotting while standing. Couple that with sitting 100' back from a cliff that looks over the ocean, they ain't exactly the prettiest trees one ever seen..


And the bark is packed full of sand, so I'm burning through the chains and bars like a rookie


----------



## woodfarmer

InfiniteJest said:


> View attachment 744782
> 
> 
> View attachment 744783
> 
> 
> Some decent fir and pine today.
> Have a great Independence day.


Do you run your chain that loose when cutting. My 066 will idle down and quit if I tighten my chain much more than what you have in the picture. I don’t really like running it that loose tho.


----------



## InfiniteJest

I do not. That tree was immediately below new road. Nice and dirty.


----------



## RandyMac

I shaved off bark on many trees to avoid the grit, not always practical when in smaller trees
flood plain trees can suck


----------



## flying pig

Last decently big one in our wood lot. We have a lot of dogs hair to log and process after this. Gonna trade it for oversized to run through the new Coutts portable mill. Skidder is finally running well, needs a bunch of electrical work and some tlc to seals etc and it will be gold, not a bad run in considering it sat 24 years in the bush before last spring. The new 572 fits nice behind the seat with a 28” on it. Having fun in the woods!


----------



## huskyboy

Big black oak my boss cut last week.


----------



## Skeans

This patch will make you tear your hair out in some of it well other parts are great like the video.


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----------



## woodfarmer

So who gets to go around and pick up all the poles when you’re done?


----------



## Skeans

woodfarmer said:


> So who gets to go around and pick up all the poles when you’re done?










We use a 1210b with a custom built extension that makes the bunks out to 26’ 



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----------



## flying pig

first one is me setting up trees for skidding, second one was me using a pusher tree, mostly for fun. Skidder was right there, could have used it but this was a bit more fun.


----------



## flying pig

Guess which way this one wanted to go. Ha ha.


----------



## rwoods

Whatever way that is opposite of where you wanted it to go. Ron


----------



## flying pig

Pretty much lol. Some of this aspen is sure ugly junk. I got a couple saw logs out of it though so it was worth the effort.


----------



## chipper1

flying pig said:


> Pretty much lol. Some of this aspen is sure ugly junk. I got a couple saw logs out of it though so it was worth the effort.


Hows the wood you get out of them, what do you usually use it for.
We have a few nice ones out back on the neighbors property, he said one lost a top in the storm we had come thru two months ago.
They are in the bottom of the creekbed reaching for the canopy, probably the tallest trees we have I can access from my place thru the woods here.


----------



## flying pig

chipper1 said:


> Hows the wood you get out of them, what do you usually use it for.
> We have a few nice ones out back on the neighbors property, he said one lost a top in the storm we had come thru two months ago.
> They are in the bottom of the creekbed reaching for the canopy, probably the tallest trees we have I can access from my place thru the woods here.


We cut them into decking, pipeline skids, corral boards, fence and windbreak boards, dunnage and blocking. It’s horrible junk to saw too, can have a pile of tension, pockets of unseen rot, etc. But, when it’s clean and white it can be some pretty tough wood.


----------



## chipper1

flying pig said:


> We cut them into decking, pipeline skids, corral boards, fence and windbreak boards, dunnage and blocking. It’s horrible junk to saw too, can have a pile of tension, pockets of unseen rot, etc. But, when it’s clean and white it can be some pretty tough wood.


Thanks for the response.
They are the straightest trees I have easy access to. 
I have a nice sized white oak at my parents to mill, it's about 4' then tapers to 3' over 10-12', not sure how to mill that one. Dropped a couple smaller cherry stems there too I may mill.


----------



## Leeroy

Hi @chipper1, here's some Quaking Aspen I milled into 2x6 and 1" live edge for floor.
The logs had been cut for about a year before milling. Used the lumber right away, there was some movement but worked for my needs.


----------



## Bwildered

The other days catch


----------



## rwoods

BW, I see the imprints where you just kicked it over with your boot. Just kidding you. What species is that tree? Ron


----------



## KiwiBro

Leeroy said:


> Hi @chipper1, here's some Quaking Aspen I milled into 2x6 and 1" live edge for floor.
> The logs had been cut for about a year before milling. Used the lumber right away, there was some movement but worked for my needs.View attachment 776200


Those joists look way over-span?


----------



## Leeroy

KiwiBro said:


> Those joists look way over-span?


I agree. They are 2' on center, same as rest of barn. It's held up for 200 years.


----------



## KiwiBro

Can you eyeball and guesstimate the deflection in them please? We recently had to change our standards because of the weaker plantation woods available these days compared to old growth timbers the pioneers had at their disposal.


----------



## Leeroy

Sure can.


----------



## Bwildered

rwoods said:


> BW, I see the imprints where you just kicked it over with your boot. Just kidding you. What species is that tree? Ron


If you look carefully you can see it sat back on the cut, I did a little bore to get the wedge in to tip it over , it's a tallowood, a
prized durable species .


----------



## Bwildered

KiwiBro said:


> Can you eyeball and guesstimate the deflection in them please? We recently had to change our standards because of the weaker plantation woods available these days compared to old growth timbers the pioneers had at their disposal.



?? You use our standard for timber framing which has mgp & F rating & how far they will span.


----------



## chipper1

Leeroy said:


> Hi @chipper1, here's some Quaking Aspen I milled into 2x6 and 1" live edge for floor.
> The logs had been cut for about a year before milling. Used the lumber right away, there was some movement but worked for my needs.View attachment 776200


Good morning Leeroy.
Those look nice, you still out falling, or on firewood duty now.
The other day looking at the pictures of the barn I noticed the other barn a ways behind this one, looked nice.
May cut a bit today, need to try out the 462.


----------



## Leeroy

KiwiBro said:


> Can you eyeball and guesstimate the deflection in them please? We recently had to change our standards because of the weaker plantation woods available these days compared to old growth timbers the pioneers had at their disposal.


KiwiBro, some of them are 2"! Not sure if it's the fault of the way I milled them, the fact that it is Quaking Aspen, that they were not stickered, or a combination.


----------



## Leeroy

chipper1 said:


> Good morning Leeroy.
> Those look nice, you still out falling, or on firewood duty now.
> The other day looking at the pictures of the barn I noticed the other barn a ways behind this one, looked nice.
> May cut a bit today, need to try out the 462.


Hello Brett,
I should be out cutting timber, but home trying to get some things done before winter really sets in, which includes firewood! Also have heavy rain coming in so getting ready for that.
If the barn you see has a gambrel roof, it would be the chicken coop. It's probably 10x12.Thanks!


----------



## woodfarmer

Cutting a nice sugar maple before the freezing rain starts. Usually use the 24" but went at it with the 20" today.
About 24" across or so.


----------



## woodfarmer

Tomorrow’s job, big heavy leaning Beech. Hopefully I can roll it to the right of the one in front, Siswheel?
Don’t care much for the seam in it, but at least it’s running into the lean.
Also another dead Beech


----------



## SS396driver

huskyboy said:


> Big black oak my boss cut last week. View attachment 762111


That base would make a beautiful taple top.


----------



## chipper1

SS396driver said:


> That base would make a beautiful taple top.


That is pretty cool looking.
Dropped this three stem maple in a few steps, first the hard leaning 20" plus lead off the side pictured above the crotch, then went back a couple weeks later and dropped the other two together with the skidding winch holding a bit of tension on the back lead, didn't want here to split off into the pool or the house. I was glad they held together for me.



Then I dropped this pine too.


----------



## woodfarmer

A maple today


----------



## woodfarmer

Took my finger off the throttle just long enough to get her pinched.
Twins


----------



## woodfarmer

The leaning Ash was interesting


----------



## woodfarmer

And a big soft maple spar


----------



## northmanlogging

speaking of falling


----------



## rwoods

Hope you are okay. Ron


----------



## woodfarmer

Was that caught on tape?


----------



## northmanlogging

rwoods said:


> Hope you are okay. Ron



Lucky me its pretty soft ground, and I've learned to go limp and roll with it, muh neck is a little stiff today I sorta half bounced on my head, then nearly nose dived into the waiting excavator track. 

Otherwise just a dirtier hoodie, not even any bruises, was laughing to hard to even bruise my pride lol



woodfarmer said:


> Was that caught on tape?



Sadly no, I was in a hurry and the L.O. was in the way... we all have regrets though don't we


----------



## rwoods

northmanlogging said:


> ...
> 
> Sadly no, I was in a hurry and the L.O. was in the way... we all have regrets though don't we



I am not a logger as you know, but I hate falling with an audience ... both meanings intended, but primarily tree falling. Seems I always rush just to get it over.

Ron


----------



## woodfarmer

In taking down the Ash, I cut my face. Bored out the heart from the face, nipped the edges on both side and then cut from Top to bottom staying on the stump until she was well on her way.


----------



## derwoodii

MS 311 20 inch bar vs >50 inch Dia of eucalyptus blakelyi log and just couldn't do it,,, i had to get the 661 25ich bar for the final inner poke for crane to pop it off.. I do like that one cut worked all way around and my bar run out was less than 1 inch


----------



## BlackCoffin




----------



## woodfarmer

Clearing a patch of all the ash, used the big red wedge for a little insurance


----------



## woodfarmer

Laying them down


----------



## woodfarmer

Using the tractor, I gave it a wee bit too much of a push and caught up in the cedars. At least didn’t hit the building.


----------



## Bwildered

woodfarmer said:


> Using the tractor, I gave it a wee bit too much of a push and caught up in the cedars. At least didn’t hit the building.View attachment 807230
> View attachment 807232
> View attachment 807233
> View attachment 807234



you have over cut & have left no hingewood, disaster could be just around the next bend


----------



## woodfarmer

Bwildered said:


> you have over cut & have left no hingewood, disaster could be just around the next bend


Which one?


----------



## Bwildered

woodfarmer said:


> Which one?


It could very well be the next one, especially when you're pushing them over with a machine, you could push the butt off the stump & it could come back over the cab & you could wind up flatter than a pancake.


----------



## Kodiakmac

__





proper felling diagrams - Google Search






www.google.ca


----------



## woodfarmer

Bewildered and Kodiak, if you go to the top of the page, I explain how I cut the ash. Frozen ash has a higher percentage of barberchairing so I leave a small hinge and usually chase that as the tree is headed down. You’ll see in most pictures there is a small hinge left in the top right corners as this is the last of the holding wood. Especially on this job when the trees has to go strait and right as there was a large shop on my left.
I’ve been doing this for a long time and am very safety conscious, this is what works for me.


----------



## Kodiakmac

"Frozen ash has a higher percentage of barberchairing so I leave a small hinge and usually chase that as the tree is headed down."

Okay. That explains it. On the leaners I do a plunge cut and leave a hinge and then cut through the strip that's left at the back. That pretty well eliminates barber-chairing. Used to call that "snippin' the bra".


----------



## woodfarmer

Loading them up, small ends are what your looking at.


----------



## flying pig

still picking away at it. Snow is getting deep and the skid is getting longer. Love the spring weather.


----------



## woodfarmer

How’s the heater working?


----------



## flying pig

Good actually, suck fan so I’m cooking on the longer skids. It’s enough to keep me dried off between hitches.


----------



## Deleted member 110241

No falling in this picture, hope that's ok. Was one of those perfect days with 0-degree (C) weather, clear skies and a nice view. Had an eagle soaring above me, some smaller birds chirping...almost religious after a long dark winter! 
There's a house in that light spot on the left hand side, I bet they have a great view!


----------



## TheDarkLordChinChin

Ash is such nice looking wood.


----------



## woodfarmer

Well that’s all for 2020, the last load for the winter that wasn’t. Now onto firewood. What a mess of mud.


----------



## TheDarkLordChinChin

Thats what it looks like here too.


----------



## woodfarmer

Still swamp logging


----------



## TheDarkLordChinChin




----------



## woodfarmer

Well the last load didn’t pay too well, no better than firewood really. With the bark falling off and some bug boaring deep into the logs, they’re not prime saw logs. So I guess that is it for the Ash lumber here.


----------



## rwoods

TheDarkLordChinChin said:


> View attachment 815743
> View attachment 815744
> View attachment 815745



Looks like there is some iron in that stem. Hope you don't hit any.

Ron


----------



## TheDarkLordChinChin

Well the chain didnt get damaged at all so it must have been very corroded. I did see some old nails sticking out of it 5 feet up so I decided it would be as good to cut it low than high.


----------



## flying pig

woodfarmer said:


> Well the last load didn’t pay too well, no better than firewood really. With the bark falling off and some bug boaring deep into the logs, they’re not prime saw logs. So I guess that is it for the Ash lumber here.


Too bad your woodlot is gone to hell. Time to replant and wait for the next round I guess!


----------



## rwoods

TheDarkLordChinChin said:


> Well the chain didnt get damaged at all so it must have been very corroded. I did see some old nails sticking out of it 5 feet up so I decided it would be as good to cut it low than high.


 
I was judging by the stains. I didn't mean to infer that there was metal at your cut. Hope you don't hit any if you plan to cut it further. Ron


----------



## woodfarmer

flying pig said:


> Too bad your woodlot is gone to hell. Time to replant and wait for the next round I guess!


just the ash, sugar maple has a canker, beech has a blight, soft maple, cherry, spruce, pine and cedar all good.
polar as they age are rotting up the middle. So I’m set for firewood for life.


----------



## northmanlogging




----------



## TheDarkLordChinChin

rwoods said:


> I was judging by the stains. I didn't mean to infer that there was metal at your cut. Hope you don't hit any if you plan to cut it further. Ron



Judging by where the nails are in relation to the centre of the tree I would say they are rotten as fcuk. It's a 50 y/o tree and a very wet softwood species at that So if the nails were in there for 40 years I would say they are pretty dead by now. Hopefully. There are some newer ones in it further up though.


----------



## TheDarkLordChinChin

northmanlogging said:


>




I wish I was cutting big conifers like that all day.


----------



## InfiniteJest

Good grief, this place is deader than a mackerel. Guilt tripped me into logging on for the first time in forever. 








Snow Monday morning, 90* today. 

Been making the most of the weekends.


----------



## rwoods

IJ, log in more often. That is some beautiful country your working. Ron


----------



## InfiniteJest

New unit. Bottom is pretty crispy. 






The top is pretty decent 3 log timber.




Nice to park right by the office.


----------



## Skeans

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## InfiniteJest

Kind of coastal sort of day for Montana. 
Other than the size of the timber.


----------



## rwoods

Just a long term trespasser here that is not qualified to post pictures but couldn't resist as I thought of some of the crooked tree posts of @woodfarmer when I came upon this dead ash while mowing today. Slightly over bar length at the felling cut. Did a bore cut, something I usually don't do and am not very good at doing. It fell where aimed and just barely rubbed the little maple I want to save - no damage to it so all was good. I didn't realize the sun had ruined most of my pictures until I downloaded them. 







82* here today with just enough break in the rain to mow.

Ron


----------



## TheDarkLordChinChin

Nice mac, what model?


----------



## rwoods

ProMac 800. Ron


----------



## woodfarmer

Always welcome to post pics Mr. Woods, I enjoy looking at what everyone is doing around the world. Those Ash are about as dangerous as anything going.


----------



## rwoods

I don't have much Ash experience - probably less than 100. Have read they are chair prone which in addition to the oblivious lean and side load is why I bore cut it. I didn't have a good place to stand to do a Coos. 
Ron


----------



## InfiniteJest

Montana traffic jam. And the cold beer is at home.


----------



## InfiniteJest

Some super juicy roadside salvage.... Nice and scattered. I think I spent more time hiking/moving the truck than I did sawing. Always fun.....



Air filter stress test, burnt red fir.




Always a good time punching them through the burnt piss fir.


----------



## InfiniteJest

Got some help the other day chewing through this awful burnt stuff.






A few more days of this and on to better (greener) things.

Took today off and actually got to play in the woods.




Have a good weekend.


----------



## woodfarmer

Why are you cutting the burnt trees now?


----------



## InfiniteJest

They'll still make a 2x4. 
A pretty ****ing light 2x4. 
Glad I'm not getting paid by the ton on this sale.


----------



## john123

Good pictures, good to see work going on in the woods


----------



## woodfarmer

My question should have been “hand cutting”, seems most with that size wood are using processors?


----------



## northmanlogging

as the War Dept says "Funzies"


----------



## Jhenderson

When I doubt, go for the big orange wedge.


----------



## northmanlogging

welp, there it is, my first stump on my first logging project...15 years later?


----------



## InfiniteJest

More of the glitzy-glam faller's life....










It would be a pretty nice spot in July, lol.


----------



## slowp

It looks like that wood stove would turn that trailer into a sauna.

It is a nice thing to have hot heat after a day of fun and games in the wintry woods.

I would reply to your bumper sticker with "Too Bad. We're sending you the overflow."


----------



## rwoods

slowp said:


> ...
> *I would reply to your bumper sticker with "Too Bad. We're sending you the overflow.*"



I enjoy your wit. Still laughing as I type.

Ron


----------



## northmanlogging

slowp said:


> It looks like that wood stove would turn that trailer into a sauna.
> 
> It is a nice thing to have hot heat after a day of fun and games in the wintry woods.
> 
> I would reply to your bumper sticker with "Too Bad. We're sending you the overflow."


Lots of fed up Warshingtonians fleeing to Idaho and Montucky, Seems they believe its a better environment to succeed in or what ever. What they haven't seemed to count on is the 4 months of bellow freezing temps, the wind, the sheep, still having the same problems with crack heads and thieves, and a severe lack of work. But the taxes are lower?


----------



## slowp

northmanlogging said:


> Lots of fed up Warshingtonians fleeing to Idaho and Montucky, Seems they believe its a better environment to succeed in or what ever. What they haven't seemed to count on is the 4 months of bellow freezing temps, the wind, the sheep, still having the same problems with crack heads and thieves, and a severe lack of work. But the taxes are lower?


I was told that the North part of Kalispell is called Little Seattle. That was a few years ago. 

During my return from exile, I stopped at a rest area in West Dakota and there was a Volkswagon Rabbit with Califonia plates but the owner had taken a Sharpie and written next to the rear plate, I WORK IN (arrow pointing to license plate) then, I'M FROM MONTANA. I had Wisconsin plates which do not seem to attract any undue hatred. There are lots of comments about cheese.


----------



## InfiniteJest

slowp said:


> It looks like that wood stove would turn that trailer into a sauna.
> 
> It is a nice thing to have hot heat after a day of fun and games in the wintry woods.
> 
> I would reply to your bumper sticker with "Too Bad. We're sending you the overflow."


We sure appreciate all you assholes from Washington bringing in the Covid and crowding us out of all the beautiful spots we work our asses off to enjoy.
**** YOU!


----------



## northmanlogging

InfiniteJest said:


> We sure appreciate all you assholes from Washington bringing in the Covid and crowding us out of all the beautiful spots we work our asses off to enjoy.
> **** YOU!


Hey man, I'm stayin put, let all the misguided wanna be sheep shaggers leave here, means the real estate might be attainable again. 

I've lived in Montucky for a short time though, and frankly WA is better, but don't tell anyone.


----------



## slowp

InfiniteJest said:


> We sure appreciate all you assholes from Washington bringing in the Covid and crowding us out of all the beautiful spots we work our asses off to enjoy.
> **** YOU!


Hmm. I have this problem. I go to Montucky, or Idasee and think to myself that we've got the same type of scenery in Warshington. So, don't worry too much. I can have poverty with a view here, well, I do have to walk a little ways for the view. But I will continue to encourage anybody who wants a more rural way of life to head east, and take along their friends. It's the decent thing to do.


----------



## northmanlogging

Lots of ground for new homes in the High Plains of MT, WY, CO, ID, NE. Lots of god fearing hard working folks looking to leave this overtaxed, over crowded, drug den...

Ya all should welcome them as brothers


----------



## forestryworks

@Jacob J. @slowp @tarzanthomas @hammerlogging @datalogger @Burvol @Gologit I see some of you folks show up as taggable; others appear long gone from the site. It's been a long time since I was here last. Hope all is well. I am sure I've forgotten some people.

I haven't been on the saw in a long time. The last time was somewhere in New Mexico a few years ago - had been 7 years since regular saw use up to hat point. Cutting some Doug-firs for a friend.

Stay safe and watch the top!


----------



## woodfarmer

Nice day to be felling some Ash and Beech, to open up the hard maple stand.


----------



## woodfarmer

and a few more


----------



## woodfarmer

A little video. Got it to roll over just where i wanted it.


----------



## woodfarmer

A few more, one triple hinge to swing the tree and another back cut first to send the tree in the opposite direction.
*



*


----------



## woodfarmer

Another beautiful day in the woods, had to add a little excitement, knocked it down with the one in the background to the right


----------



## northmanlogging

sometimes they just dont cooperate


----------



## BlackCoffin

Maple?


----------



## northmanlogging

BlackCoffin said:


> Maple?


alder it woulda been a good one too, garbage now.


----------



## BlackCoffin

northmanlogging said:


> alder it woulda been a good one too, garbage now.


Now the chair makes sense with all the moss and the white straight grain hade me thinking maple at first. I have seen maple grown like that fracture and peel even when bucking when they’re under stress. Straight grain is great for splitting though!


----------



## northmanlogging

BlackCoffin said:


> Now the chair makes sense with all the moss and the white straight grain hade me thinking maple at first. I have seen maple grown like that fracture and peel even when bucking when they’re under stress. Straight grain is great for splitting though!


the maple out here splits fine when its green, but if it dries out its like iron..


----------



## sawfun

BlackCoffin said:


> Now the chair makes sense with all the moss and the white straight grain hade me thinking maple at first. I have seen maple grown like that fracture and peel even when bucking when they’re under stress. Straight grain is great for splitting though!


That alder damn near splits by pointing your finger and saying split. No need to place it upright, just tap it on its side and its good.


----------



## rwoods

Practiced yesterday on a few dead Ash. Pictures taken by my cutting buddy. My stump shots are held hostage in my home computer which beginning last Thursday won't work on AS any longer.

Putting in the face.



All went well. For the eagle eyes - yes, I had to put some work into fixing the face. I missed big time with that short bar. Would have brought a longer bar if I had known ahead of time what was to be cut.

Another one leaving the stump.


Felled with my new off-brand FI saw. Really needs a wrap - almost a pound of the weigh savings will be gone and more $$ out of my pocket but a wrap is so convenient.

Ron


----------



## woodfarmer

Last of the Ash in this section. Bought an old hydro pole trailer, can get 6-24”x 24’ logs on it


----------



## BlackCoffin

I want some of that! Tall and straight grain.


----------



## woodfarmer

Put a new 20” handle on an old 4-5 lb axe head I had, this should pound wedges well.


----------



## Northerner

I don’t post much in this section, but here goes. Doing some spruce logging with my father this winter. Having a blast working with him and his old skidder that he has run for over 40 years. 
Just logging the more mature trees and some blowdown from a summer wind storm we had. 















Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## woodfarmer

Had a nasty rotten cherry to fell and two loads out today


----------



## Northerner

I really like your log trailer, nice!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BlackCoffin

Biggest tree so far, 113 year old 47” fir


----------



## rwoods

Nice stick, BC. Question: Did you actually back-bar the cut? If yes, why? Just curious, before I spring $100+ to convert by new Stihl to a wrap. I have never handled a wrap Stihl, or any 3/4 wrap. I love the full wrap on my old MACs.

Thanks,

Ron


----------



## BlackCoffin

rwoods said:


> Nice stick, BC. Question: Did you actually back-bar the cut? If yes, why? Just curious, before I spring $100+ to convert by new Stihl to a wrap. I have never handled a wrap Stihl, or any 3/4 wrap. I love the full wrap on my old MACs.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Ron



I did not back bar the cut, simply just laying the saw there for a size comparison. I love a 3/4 wrap, the saws I’ve bought that didn’t have one shortly received one. I grabbed my 661 hot saw to play around with limbing that fir as I walked along it and it only has a standard wrap...I hated it. You’re just able to articulate the saw much more with a wrap handle and less stress on your body. Instead of just flipping the saw I was having to twist my arms to get the angles I wanted. This goes for general tree work as well, so many times I use that extra part of the handle to make myself more comfortable and safe when working.


----------



## Skeans

[mention]rwoods [/mention] it wouldn’t happen to be a 500i would it?









Weird fun fact about them with the same bar and chain the half wrap version was almost 100 dollars more.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## rwoods

Skeans said:


> [mention]rwoods [/mention] it wouldn’t happen to be a 500i would it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Weird fun fact about them with the same bar and chain the half wrap version was almost 100 dollars more.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sure is - see post 12994. I wanted a wrap and the first release were wraps, but couldn't find anyone to get me one (no 500i in Tennessee). I got impatient after being told our region would not see a 500i for months after the other regions so I bought the only one I could get. In my shopping I didn't get a firm price on the wrap, but found several folks selling the regular were either marking them up $50 to $100 or were replacing the light bars with regular bars. I was able to get mine with a 25" lite bar for $1309. 

I like the saw. But it is not a one pull start as many say their is. I don't know that it is related but the decomp is the stiffest I have ever run across. It doesn't pop closed until you rev the saw.

Back to the wrap. I thought I would just learn to live without one, but that picture of me exiting the tree (linked below) bugs me. There is no way to reach the chain brake when back barring so you either have to learn to rotate the saw immediately to activate the brake before you run, or run with the chain brake off. Naturally, I chose to run first. If I should fall on the move bad things could happen - so I am looking at adding a wrap which will put my hand closer to the brake and the bar a little further away from me.

https://www.arboristsite.com/community/attachments/img_1073-480x640-jpg.869650/

Ron


----------



## Skeans

rwoods said:


> Sure is - see post 12994. I wanted a wrap and the first release were wraps, but couldn't find anyone to get me one (no 500i in Tennessee). I got impatient after being told our region would not see a 500i for months after the other regions so I bought the only one I could get. In my shopping I didn't get a firm price on the wrap, but found several folks selling the regular were either marking them up $50 to $100 or were replacing the light bars with regular bars. I was able to get mine with a 25" lite bar for $1309.
> 
> I like the saw. But it is not a one pull start as many say their is. I don't know that it is related but the decomp is the stiffest I have ever run across. It doesn't pop closed until you rev the saw.
> 
> Back to the wrap. I thought I would just learn to live without one, but that picture of me exiting the tree (linked below) bugs me. There is no way to reach the chain brake when back barring so you either have to learn to rotate the saw immediately to activate the brake before you run, or run with the chain brake off. Naturally, I chose to run first. If I should fall on the move bad things could happen - so I am looking at adding a wrap which will put my hand closer to the brake and the bar a little further away from me.
> 
> https://www.arboristsite.com/community/attachments/img_1073-480x640-jpg.869650/
> 
> Ron



From what I understood they are out of wraps till the end of the first quarter of this year the demand for them out here as been very very high because of the burns. When cold this one bangs off first or second pull with no decompression I haven’t seen a need to use it so far and probably won’t need to. That’s about what I paid with the light 32 the half wrap with the same bar and chain was more which doesn’t make a lot of sense. Well I’m cutting I don’t think I’ve ever set the chain brake well even getting out into the clear, but most of the time I’ve shut the saw down or left it at the stump if I can.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## rwoods

If I think things are hairy, or they get hairy, I always dump the saw and go. 

I feel a little stupid not thinking to shut off the saw - after all it has that great big button with only one function - a new skill set to develop. Gave up on my old MACs and my 036Pro as they do not reliably shutoff with the switch. 

Some would call me a wimp, but I am a decomp user through and through. Easier on me and easier on the recoil.

Ron


----------



## Skeans

rwoods said:


> If I think things are hairy, or they get hairy, I always dump the saw and go.
> 
> I feel a little stupid not thinking to shut off the saw - after all it has that great big button with only one function - a new skill set to develop. Gave up on my old MACs and my 036Pro as they do not reliably shutoff with the switch.
> 
> Some would call me a wimp, but I am a decomp user through and through. Easier on me and easier on the recoil.
> 
> Ron



That’s where the 3 series and the newer 5 series husky saws are nice it’s really simple to shut down in a hurry with either a slider sideways or straight down push. Most of the time I don’t use the decompressions because I drop start the saws how else do you start a long bar saw? Have you tried starting the saw without using the decompression?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## rwoods

I am too much of a klutz to drop start a saw. I crank my long bar saws by sitting them on a stump or a log or something elevated and stable. Short bars are started with the rear handle under my thigh. Without the de-comp it is way too easy to twist the saw such that the bar hits my leg. 

I really don't get why folks wouldn't use the de-comp unless it interferes with starting - why stress yourself and your machine anymore than necessary? 

I have a few 125 MACs and I had a MAC kart engine saw with a compression of 195 psi. Probably more a matter of ignition timing than compression but you will want to use the de-comp on any of those saws. I have seen plenty of busted recoils on the old saws. I have a MAC kart engine without a de-comp but it is bolted to a bench and doesn't get twisted like a hand held saw. If I put it in a saw, it will be fitted with a de-comp. 

Maybe it is a MAC thing, but de-comp make starting so much easier. As to performance, more than once I have had the de-comp completely unscrew itself and fall out and the old MAC never missed a beat it just kept cutting. 

To each his own.

Ron


----------



## Skeans

rwoods said:


> I am too much of a klutz to drop start a saw. I crank my long bar saws by sitting them on a stump or a log or something elevated and stable. Short bars are started with the rear handle under my thigh. Without the de-comp it is way too easy to twist the saw such that the bar hits my leg.
> 
> I really don't get why folks wouldn't use the de-comp unless it interferes with starting - why stress yourself and your machine anymore than necessary?
> 
> I have a few 125 MACs and I had a MAC kart engine saw with a compression of 195 psi. Probably more a matter of ignition timing than compression but you will want to use the de-comp on any of those saws. I have seen plenty of busted recoils on the old saws. I have a MAC kart engine without a de-comp but it is bolted to a bench and doesn't get twisted like a hand held saw. If I put it in a saw, it will be fitted with a de-comp.
> 
> Maybe it is a MAC thing, but de-comp make starting so much easier. As to performance, more than once I have had the de-comp completely unscrew itself and fall out and the old MAC never missed a beat it just kept cutting.
> 
> To each his own.
> 
> Ron



This 395 I have that runs my 60” bar is 215 psi of compression with the decompression plugged. I’ve had them stick open in the past where you need to rev the saw for them to pop or they never get used and they get gummed up after a while. How many times are you priming the bulb?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## rwoods

Cold start 8 to 10 pumps. Warm starts usually just 1 pump - almost always a one pull start when warm but so do all my other saws.


----------



## northmanlogging

rwoods said:


> I am too much of a klutz to drop start a saw. I crank my long bar saws by sitting them on a stump or a log or something elevated and stable. Short bars are started with the rear handle under my thigh. Without the de-comp it is way too easy to twist the saw such that the bar hits my leg.
> 
> I really don't get why folks wouldn't use the de-comp unless it interferes with starting - why stress yourself and your machine anymore than necessary?
> 
> I have a few 125 MACs and I had a MAC kart engine saw with a compression of 195 psi. Probably more a matter of ignition timing than compression but you will want to use the de-comp on any of those saws. I have seen plenty of busted recoils on the old saws. I have a MAC kart engine without a de-comp but it is bolted to a bench and doesn't get twisted like a hand held saw. If I put it in a saw, it will be fitted with a de-comp.
> 
> Maybe it is a MAC thing, but de-comp make starting so much easier. As to performance, more than once I have had the de-comp completely unscrew itself and fall out and the old MAC never missed a beat it just kept cutting.
> 
> To each his own.
> 
> Ron


skipped the decomp thing lol

I rarely use the decomp on any of my saws, except the big block saws, but then I have arms the size of most folks thighs lol, the elasto start handles come in handy for this stuff lol. 


on my cut off saw (ts-400) the way its set up with the goofy belt drive, I need to use the decomp on it just to get it spinning fast enough at least when cold.


----------



## Greenwedge

Burvol said:


> Here is a couple of pics from today. I just snapped a couple with my cell phone. I am not in any of them. Nothing too special, just thought I'd share.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is my Dad stumping a nice fir. This wood is really tall.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is my tree killer. Dude is a hell of a timber faller, nice guy, wise, and very gracious, just like my Dad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steve pulling a block out face. It will hold the tree on the stump longer. He used it in this case because of a small hump in the lay, about 80 feet out. This is really, ripe, tall wood. The longer it stays on the stump on ground like this, the less likely it will break.
> 
> 
> I am fortunate to cut with these two. We bet parts of our lunches on lay and save outs, share tips and ideas, and just have fun. We put the wood down too. Known Steve since I was born. These guys have paid their dues and are very smart, smooth timber fallers. I'm having a good time in this unit.


Nice pics. Been awhile since I have been on here. Hope everyone is well.


----------



## northmanlogging

Greenwedge said:


> Nice pics. Been awhile since I have been on here. Hope everyone is well.


welcome back, how's the neck?


----------



## woodfarmer

Taking big Ash out of a fence row, trying to drop them in the row to keep the mess out of the fields.


----------



## woodfarmer

#2 been giving the 500i a good workout, and my arms too. Was limbing with it and the 2165 today, wore myself out.


----------



## woodfarmer

When I set the 500 down, it idled for 20-40 seconds or so and then shut off. Anyone else had this happen?


----------



## bitzer

Glad to see you guys are still kickin


----------



## Skeans

bitzer said:


> Glad to see you guys are still kickin
> View attachment 885177



Glad to see you’re still kicking


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Skeans

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bitzer

Skeans said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Got any tall trees for me to tip?


----------



## Skeans

bitzer said:


> Got any tall trees for me to tip?



Got one down the other day saved out to 200’ but was pretty much all junk thanks to rot and stain. We’re getting down there on the big oversized with the age it’s getting past it’s prime.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## northmanlogging

bitzer said:


> Got any tall trees for me to tip?


working a 6 acre hardwood job... bunch of chair prone nasty leaners... more then welcome to come out and party lol

One just about got me today, I can still run pretty fast for a 300# gimpy fat kid.


----------



## BlackCoffin

Video or it didn’t happen!


----------



## northmanlogging

BlackCoffin said:


> Video or it didn’t happen!


sorry no vid

I was too worried about not getting my nephew killed, or taking out the power to 1/4 of the county.


----------



## BlackCoffin

Just a slight technicality...


----------



## Westboastfaller

First tree with the new 390?
Got a new saw, eh?
Is the bar getting smaller these days? ...thinking like a 28..32?
Very nice to see you younger man.
How's tricks, my friend?


bitzer said:


> Glad to see you guys are still kickin
> View attachment 885177


----------



## Westboastfaller

northmanlogging said:


> working a 6 acre hardwood job... bunch of chair prone nasty leaners... more then welcome to come out and party lol
> 
> One just about got me today, I can still run pretty fast for a 300# gimpy fat kid.


Haha...I'd bet you can "book it" hard, if need be.


----------



## northmanlogging

Westboastfaller said:


> Haha...I'd bet you can "book it" hard, if need be.


the problem is once all this himbo is moving... getting it stopped without running into a stump... usually involves aiming for a soft spot and trying to roll gracefully.


----------



## con707904

Me: I guess I can leave this hoe here the tree has plenty of lean in the opposite direction I'm sure this will go fine

Wind: Hold my beer...

No damage done except a smashed handrail that was already smashed. Extremely irresponsible mistake on my part, definitely a major ego check


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## rwoods

Glad you didn't get hurt. Ron


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## catbuster

**** happens, it’s no big deal. Iron can get fixed, when you’re Flat Stanleyd is NFG. Those big deciduous trees catch wind like no other too.


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## woodfarmer

Some maple and more Ash, felling with 500i and bucking with 2171. 500 square and 2171 took the rakers down lots. Need to get the saw up to speed before hitting the wood, hold on tight it pulls like a freight train. Used a piece of the face cut in the right side of the notch to swing the las tree hard to keep it out of the maple.


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## northmanlogging

new personal record in height 180' on 50" butt


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## TheDarkLordChinChin

northmanlogging said:


> new personal record in height 180' on 50" butt


Left handed saw or you flipped the picture?


----------



## northmanlogging

TheDarkLordChinChin said:


> Left handed saw or you flipped the picture?


selfie mode, broke my normal camera a few months ago, haven't had time to get it fixed/replaced

that tis a goofy lookin pic innit


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## rwoods

Congrats. I would have to stack two to make that length. Diameter is big even for our huge oaks. 85’ to 100’ and 30” are whoopers to me.

Yesterday, I was drooling over Logger Nate’s video.

Ron


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## Gologit

This has some good old time stuff that still applies today. Check about 14:25 for a big snag shedding it's bark. I've seen that happen and if you're double jacking get it clear with your partner which way you're both going to run. That way you don't run into each other, fall down, and wind up wearing the tree.


----------



## rwoods

That bark shedding was a sight to behold. 
Ron


----------



## catbuster

Watching video like that makes me appreciate breaking in when I did even more. Damn impressive wood, and more impressive effort put forth.


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## northmanlogging

Gologit said:


> This has some good old time stuff that still applies today. Check about 14:25 for a big snag shedding it's bark. I've seen that happen and if you're double jacking get it clear with your partner which way you're both going to run. That way you don't run into each other, fall down, and wind up wearing the tree.



had to rewatch that, didn't see it the first time... thats some crazy stuff. 

and the whole core of the tree was mush too... whole lotta ick


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## madhatte

Doesn't get much sketchier!


----------



## Saiso

I’ve neglected most of these for over a year but I finally got to them now. My plan is to run the mill pretty steady after the holidays until the big cold/snow then I start my firewood! BF, WS and the occasional RS in pile. And yes yes, I have a trailer but for the bit I was doing, it was quicker to back the truck alone.


----------



## northmanlogging

getting a little arty with my vidjeos...


----------



## woodfarmer

First a huge hard maple tree.
Then a huge soft maple


----------



## woodfarmer

500i like a hot knife through butter


----------



## woodfarmer

Then this mess, 5 hard maple blew over at once on my neighbours farm. Wet ground this year.


----------



## woodfarmer

Disappointment, rot in the bottom of the Log.

Glad I had heated saw, -23c here in the morning.


----------



## woodfarmer

Cutting some Maple today, damn snows up to ma knees


----------



## Dave1960_Gorge

I felled a hollow 6 ft. cottonwood some years back -- can't find the photos. Was a nail biter -- you could look through the base in spots. All the goats survived. 

Found some of a crane job I did; removed a couple big beetle kill pines from around a house. Needed a spotter on the roof to signal the crane operator for the tree out of sight. I ran around like a cat in a room full of rocking chairs -- subbed out the crane outfit and climbers. Tight crew. Didn't so much as crack a shingle.


----------



## Gologit

Judging by the madrone stump these idiots are lucky they're alive. They better quit stealing wood before they hurt themselves.









Yeah, You Can't Just Carve Up a National Forest and Not Expect Consequences







lostcoastoutpost.com


----------



## 2dogs

Gologit said:


> Judging by the madrone stump these idiots are lucky they're alive. They better quit stealing wood before they hurt themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, You Can't Just Carve Up a National Forest and Not Expect Consequences
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lostcoastoutpost.com


I can't view this link because of a pop-up. Open with care.


----------



## northmanlogging

2dogs said:


> I can't view this link because of a pop-up. Open with care.


its just an anti add block deal-e-o 

bunch of dummies back cutting Madrone without a face cut, stealing, and likely selling for firewood... Business as usual for the Forest Service anymore. 

and the same dummies will ***** about the forest being gated off.


----------



## weimedog




----------



## Dave Hadden

Found this interesting, and another good example of why I wasn't a Faller. LOL

Hat's off to everyone who handles these situations with skill and competence.








Take care.


----------



## Long Bar 60

Last fall (2021) salvage logging on the North Complex fire east of Oroville, CA. The tree (snag) is a Sugar Pine. It was 6' 3" average diameter inside bark on the stump. The saw is an old 084 pulling a 42" Oregon bar and 75CJ chain set at .035. 
This was on Sierra Pacific Industries land that I believe was part of a fairly recent "land swap" with the USFS. A lot of rather nice timber but entirely burned up. Approximately 319,000 acres- ouch! That's total fire that includes many land owners.
The smile on my face has nothing to do with the nice tree... I'm thinking about ski season which began in about a month after this picture was taken. LOL
Like my Stihls but LOVE my Atomic Redster FIS G9's!


----------



## Leeroy

Tough to follow the previous acts, but here goes- 3'+ on the stump White Pine. 
View attachment IMG_2297.MOV


----------



## Long Bar 60

I don't believe I've ever seen a White Pine. Had you not said what kind of tree that was I would have bet that it was a hardwood. What state was that video taken in? Thanks.


----------



## Leeroy

Hello Long Bar,
I am in Rhode Island. Stihl MS461 with a 16" bar lol. 72 ck square filed. 
Guess you could call me short bar 16.


----------



## chipper1

Long Bar 60 said:


> I don't believe I've ever seen a White Pine. Had you not said what kind of tree that was I would have bet that it was a hardwood. What state was that video taken in? Thanks.


Ever seen this picture before.
Many are unaware that Michigan was a large producer of white Pine, we still have 3 areas of white pine that have been preserved, beautiful old growth trees.


----------



## chipper1

Leeroy said:


> Tough to follow the previous acts, but here goes- 3'+ on the stump White Pine.
> View attachment 1013028


Nice job Leeroy. 


Leeroy said:


> Hello Long Bar,
> I am in Rhode Island. Stihl MS461 with a 16" bar lol. 72 ck square filed.
> Guess you could call me short bar 16.


How's that saying go, it's not how deep you fish, but how you wiggle your worm .
Here's an elm I dropped in front of the barn this spring. I was fishing a little deeper, needed a 32 to get the bore cut through/low side of the hinge set up at an angle because of the other stem, went as planned.



Here's the other stem, it was back leaning pretty bad, but the little kubota and the skidding winch had no problem with it.


----------



## Leeroy

Nice job @chipper1 ! You are hired!


----------



## Leeroy

Here is another one the landowner took. Decided bumping it with the forwarder might give me shoulder a break
View attachment IMG_2261 (1).MOV

.


----------



## chipper1

Leeroy said:


> Here is another one the landowner took. Decided bumping it with the forwarder might give me shoulder a break
> View attachment 1013359
> 
> .


Sometimes they need a little help.
I use the kubota and the skidding winch often, I call it my Japanese felling tool/ apparatus sometimes. I'm not a fan of driving wedges.
Since my pictures won't load from my phone for some reason, here's a couple more videos from this summer.

Heck, sometimes I don't even put a notch in them .


----------



## chipper1

Leeroy said:


> Nice job @chipper1 ! You are hired!


Forgot to ask, where do I punch in at. Sure hope I at least get a 20" bar on my saw lol.
Really bummed I can't get my pics to load from the cloud. Then when I look back at my photos on the phone they go from April 2 to last August . 
But I can take a screenshot and that will load.


----------



## JoeMay

NE Minnesota also has a rich history of white pine logging. We’re fortunate to have a few big ones still standing on our lake cabin’s property. They’re beautiful trees. Unlike the balsam and spruce weeds that are succumbing to bud worm and beetles. Nothing to do about that but drop em.


----------



## Leeroy

chipper1 said:


> Sometimes they need a little help.
> I use the kubota and the skidding winch often, I call it my Japanese felling tool/ apparatus sometimes. I'm not a fan of driving wedges.
> Since my pictures won't load from my phone for some reason, here's a couple more videos from this summer.
> 
> Heck, sometimes I don't even put a notch in them .



Looking good at the homestead Chipper!
Those tractors with a winch are handy. I did a job a few years ago and opted to use the landowne s Kubota and Farmi instead of the forwarder for a handful of small pitch and white pines between his house and garage and a road behind us. He knew what he was doing and gently pulled when I signal d him. Some guys like to pour on the coal too soon, that gets hairy.


----------



## chipper1

Leeroy said:


> Looking good at the homestead Chipper!
> Those tractors with a winch are handy. I did a job a few years ago and opted to use the landowne s Kubota and Farmi instead of the forwarder for a handful of small pitch and white pines between his house and garage and a road behind us. He knew what he was doing and gently pulled when I signal d him. Some guys like to pour on the coal too soon, that gets hairy.


Thanks, done a ton of work here this spring, can't wait to get the barn wrapped up.
A farmi is what I wanted, but a winch in general is hard enough to find, I drove 2 hrs to get this one and it had a bad clutch. They're very handy and low impact compared to a dedicated skidder/forwarder. I've gotten pretty good with this one, set up 180 to the lean, test to make sure I can actually pull it, let the tension off and then get the cable tight enough so it supports the tree and won't sit back, notch, set the hinge with a bore cut, step cut blow the bore crossing it, pull as hard as you need. Obviously some of this has to be adjusted a bit, good to practice in an environment that isn't target rich.


----------



## Kodiak Kid

I didn't even know this thread existed on the forum! "Falling pics" Good Stuff!  



Another Rainy day in AK


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## chipper1

Kodiak Kid said:


> I didn't even know this thread existed on the form! "Falling pics" Good Stuff!  View attachment 1019270
> View attachment 1019268
> 
> 
> Another Rainy day in AK View attachment 1019269
> View attachment 1019271


That one looks familiar .
Nice job buddy.


----------



## chipper1

Been dropping a few white pine at a buddies cabin. All where pulled to the lay as they all had side lean, back lean, and the first pic is one that was a good sized double I dropped together.



Managed to get this load of logs and three more nice ones out of the one with my daughter in it, everything else was bucked into firewood, there was almost double the firewood rounds when I was totally finished.


----------



## Kodiak Kid

chipper1 said:


> That one looks familiar .
> Nice job buddy.


Thanks Chipper, I appreciate that! 
Yeah I gotta take more pics. I had some good felling lately that was picture and video worthy fir sure!  I'll post some newbies soon. Maybe even pics of some screw up's!


----------



## Kodiak Kid

A nice size Sitka Spruce.



Sitka Spruce. 
Pushing two merch's and a snag while smashing a highly decomposed snag with the Driver


----------



## chipper1

Couple box elder yesterday. 



the size is a bit deceiving on the first one, pretty big for a box elder here.


----------



## Sierra_rider

Just some random tree job photos from this year:


----------



## chipper1

One from today thought it saw a snake  lol.
It had been wrapped around his neck for yrs, I feed him today .


----------



## Kodiak Kid

N


Sierra_rider said:


> Just some random tree job photos from this year:


Nice work dude!


----------



## Kodiak Kid

Sierra_rider said:


> Just some random tree job photos from this year:


Pretty gutsy cut chancing a bounce over or butt whip into the house!  That tree looks tall!


----------



## Sierra_rider

Kodiak Kid said:


> Pretty gutsy cut chancing a bounce over or butt whip into the house!  That tree looks tall!



It was a pretty mundane tree, but with the proximtey of the building, I was proceeding with an abundance of caution lol. 

I wasn't too worried about a bounce with it. I knew if my gunning was on point, I wasn't going to hit anything out there. The ground was flat and the tree was straight as an arrow. If there was any curve or swoop to the tree, I probably would've either done an utlra-wide face or climbed it and topped it to fit more to the left. At a certain point, you just gotta just trust your knowledge/skills and just send it!


----------



## Kodiak Kid

Sierra_rider said:


> It was a pretty mundane tree, but with the proximtey of the building, I was proceeding with an abundance of caution lol.
> 
> I wasn't too worried about a bounce with it. I knew if my gunning was on point, I wasn't going to hit anything out there. The ground was flat and the tree was straight as an arrow. If there was any curve or swoop to the tree, I probably would've either done an utlra-wide face or climbed it and topped it to fit more to the left. At a certain point, you just gotta just trust your knowledge/skills and just send it!


Roger that! Good work man! Yeah I'd have to agree on the fact that the flat ground and the straight timber was key and your saving grace! I know I myself wouldn't have fell it otherwise, but that's just me.


----------



## Kodiak Kid

I didn't feel the pictures were nearly as good as the video of this drive, so here it is.View attachment VID_20221003_140047031~2.mp4


----------



## Sierra_rider

Kodiak Kid said:


> Roger that! Good work man! Yeah I'd have to agree on the fact that the flat ground and the straight timber was key and your saving grace! I know I myself wouldn't have fell it otherwise, but that's just me.


Yep, that's why I try to always have a plan and be deliberate with what I'm doing. Some people just go all willy-nilly and they end up like our friend in the stump thread lol.

I may do some riskier stuff sometimes, but I try to figure out if there is any reason I shouldn't do it the way I want...and make sure there is a reason behind everything I do. In this case, this was the scenario to pull that cut off. If the conditions weren't perfect for it, I probably would've climbed it.


----------



## Kodiak Kid

A lovely lovely rainy day of cut'n a strip as the tree tops dance with winds sustaining 30 knots gusting 40 knots. There was no crippling or posting up drives on this day I'll tell ya!  Sorry guys, no videos of any actual felling. I didn't really have time to mess around with a camera during that time. I kind of had to pay attention! 

Cut safe, stay sharp, and be very aware! 
View attachment VID_20221005_093809036~5.mp4


----------



## Sierra_rider

Kodiak Kid said:


> A lovely lovely rainy day of cut'n a strip as the tree tops dance with winds sustaining 30 knots gusting 40 knots. There was no crippling or posting up drives on this day I'll tell ya!  Sorry guys, no videos of any actual felling. I didn't really have time to mess around with a camera during that time. I kind of had to pay attention!
> 
> Cut safe, stay sharp, and be very aware!
> View attachment 1022348



Lol, I think you're gutsy for cutting in those conditions! My hats off to you, I had a bad day in the wind earlier this year and I've been a little gun shy in the wind ever since then. I won't go into too much detail, but a strong head-wind developed while I was in my back cut on a back leaning fir. No amount of wedging could send it towards my intended lay and the resulting stump pictures will not be shared on a public forum lol.


----------



## Kodiak Kid

Sierra_rider said:


> Lol, I think you're gutsy for cutting in those conditions! My hats off too you, I had a bad day in the wind earlier this year and I've been a little gun shy in the wind ever since then. I won't go into too much detail, but a strong head-wind developed while I was in my back cut on a back leaning fir. No amount of wedging could send it towards my intended lay and the resulting stump pictures will not be shared on a public forum lol.


 Its ok about not posting pictures. I have a pretty good imagination!  I may have experienced something along those lines before!


----------



## chipper1

Sierra_rider said:


> Lol, I think you're gutsy for cutting in those conditions! My hats off to you, I had a bad day in the wind earlier this year and I've been a little gun shy in the wind ever since then. I won't go into too much detail, but a strong head-wind developed while I was in my back cut on a back leaning fir. No amount of wedging could send it towards my intended lay and the resulting stump pictures will not be shared on a public forum lol.


I lost one yesterday in the wind, no pictures...
It was a 5" crab apple spar that had an 8' canopy . Made a snap cut and then planned on breaking it the opposite direction since that's where I dropped the first spar(all of 3" lol). I wanted them to fall to the west because the tree was loaded with crab apples, and I was trying to keep them in the same area, as it went down I had to carry branches much further and clean a much larger area, not the worst thing to happen when you loose one .


----------



## Kodiak Kid

Gologit said:


> This has some good old time stuff that still applies today. Check about 14:25 for a big snag shedding it's bark. I've seen that happen and if you're double jacking get it clear with your partner which way you're both going to run. That way you don't run into each other, fall down, and wind up wearing the tree.



Long before my time. Wish I broke in cutting in those days and in wood like that! I'll never begin to know the half of it in today's felling industry! Great video. Thanks for sharing


----------



## Kodiak Kid

Dave Hadden said:


> Found this interesting, and another good example of why I wasn't a Faller. LOL
> 
> Hat's off to everyone who handles these situations with skill and competence.
> 
> View attachment 994130
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Take care.


Now that is a real timber faller!


----------



## Kodiak Kid

Geared up in Filson tins fir a rainy day in the strip.

Sitka Spruce






Cut safe, stay sharp, and be aware!


----------



## chipper1

Geared up in my t-shirt and sweatshirt for a chilly day in the hood .


----------



## Kodiak Kid

chipper1 said:


> Geared up in my t-shirt and sweatshirt for a chilly day in the hood .
> 
> View attachment 1025730
> 
> View attachment 1025732


Nice work dude!


----------



## chipper1

Kodiak Kid said:


> Nice work dude!


Thanks.
I told the homeowner that they could leave the t-post up for the electric fence, but she took them down, I put it right between where they were. The wind was at 15-20 so I had the cable on it just above the fork, soon as I got about 3/4 of the back cut done she cracked, I just kept after it and managed to get another couple inches cut, not like it made much difference as it was pretty far gone. 
Today I'll buck the butt up, 1/8 cable and a clothesline hook that I can see, hopefully I'm only sharpening because of the rot. Got a 32 out last night for the dolmar, the 36 is nice when you need it, but I'm glad I don't need it that often. I feel bad for you guys having to lug them around, I was tired walking it from the truck to the base about 75' . I like the 32 on that saw for a long bar, I even found a nice semi-chisel for the 32 last night, didn't even remember I had it.
Be safe guys.


----------



## woodfarmer

Chipper, that‘s why I sent the 046-066‘s down the road. Things are getting heavy. Replaced with a couple 500i’s. Should be the last large saws I need. To go along with my fleet of Jonny 2152-2171’s.
I never did graduate to the 22xx series saws.


----------



## chipper1

woodfarmer said:


> Chipper, that‘s why I sent the 046-066‘s down the road. Things are getting heavy. Replaced with a couple 500i’s. Should be the last large saws I need. To go along with my fleet of Jonny 2152-2171’s.
> I never did graduate to the 22xx series saws.


I shipped the ported 440 down the rd last yr when I snagged up another 462 to keep. A muffler modded 462 isn't far off a mildly ported 440, and it sips fuel, better anti-vibe, and is crazy light for a 70cc saw.
I've ran the 500i, but only ported with a 20" square chain, hard to make any conclusions about it based on that experience lol.
Most everything I've heard has been positive about them, but the ported 7900 would probably keep up with it no problem, although I'll need to keep an eye out for the future as they don't last forever. Good thing I have at least 5 70-79 and a ported 365. I'm probably okay for a while since I just started a new driving job last week, won't be much time for cutting, I'll be letting quite a few go in the next couple months. Just sold a 359 that needed a carb kit last night.


----------



## Sierra_rider

Speaking of 500is, I finally actually got to try my "566i" on a job. I call it that, because it's mostly a 500i, but ported and machined, using a piston from a different saw. I've got quite a bit of work into it and I'm planning on doing more, this is version 1. I'm guessing because of things I was able to do with intake port timing, this saw is actually quite fuel efficient compared to stock 500s.

The "566i" is a beast, but I think I can do better on it:


----------



## Kodiak Kid

View attachment VID_20221018_125913887~4.mp4
this was a fairly nasty snag with a smaller hanger in it. You can see the top start to dance a bit during commitment.


----------



## Kodiak Kid

View attachment VID_20220910_092921327~3.mp4
Taking out a snag that was left brushed up by another cutter cut'n right a way.


----------



## weimedog




----------



## Kodiak Kid




----------

