# Sealing endgrain



## Hunt4lumber (Apr 12, 2016)

What do i use?
When do i apply it?( before or after sawed into boards?)


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## Czech_Made (Apr 13, 2016)

I have a pan of candle was, I used it to seal ends for some nice maple - takes time to melt it but IMHO one of the best home sealants.

For big lumber i use just leftover paint, can't say it completely prevents cracking.


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## buzz sawyer (Apr 13, 2016)

I've used melted wax and have used a sealant that dries to a wax-like coating, but mostly 2-3 coats of cheap latex paint. I like to apply it soon after the log is cut - I think the wood draws it into the pores this way. I've had few if any issues with cracking.


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## BobL (Apr 13, 2016)

Hunt4lumber said:


> What do i use?
> When do i apply it?( before or after sawed into boards?)



Wax is good for small stuff but picks up grit, rocks etc, and is expensive for larger pieces.
I usually dock the sealed logs off and then reseal the boards etc afterwards..
I've tried making my own sealant with a mix of turps and wax with mixed success.
Anchor seal is the best, but here in Western Australia its either an expensive 55 gallon drums plus shipping (US$9/gallon), or even more outrageous outrageous small cans (US$49/gallon)at so I tend to use house paint. I find it needs at least 2 and preferably 3 coats - I like it in terms of crap doesn't stick so easily to it.


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## Sawyer Rob (Apr 15, 2016)

Anchorseal is the stuff to get, paint may make YOU feel good, but it's a POOR replacement for real end sealer.

Wax is good too, just harder to use...

End seal your logs ASAP and then cut right through it when you mill the logs... That way the boards are already sealed...

SR


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## Hunt4lumber (Apr 15, 2016)

Thanks guys
Will post pics of very first milling, prob by next week sometime...


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## ChoppyChoppy (Apr 15, 2016)

We just cut the logs 6-8" long and don't fuss with it. Cut to length after the board is dry.


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## Iron.and.bark (Apr 16, 2016)

Caltex timber sealer

Since I can't get bp log sealer anymore 

Probably available in oz only though?


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## Pauls_Workshop (Apr 16, 2016)

Hi guys couple questions/comments. So only starting on year 3 of milling for me. I got and used up 1 gallon of Anchorseal II. Am still getting some checking with it. I heard it isn't as good as older Anchorseal I was but could not get that anyplace anymore so tried II. Not really super impressed. Seems to help a little - not much. Debating whether to buy another gallon of this or not bother.

For paint, is PRIMER any better or just latex PAINT preferred? I found Kilz latex Primer seems to work for me as good as Anchorseal II. Oil bas versus water base primer or paint? I have tried just latex paint and I get some pretty bad checking, maybe a little slightly worse than the Anchorseal II. How many coats should be used? 

Anyone ever try just liquid car wax? Not cheap of course at retail but I have some I didn't pay much of anything for. Might want to try it. Thoughts on all this? thx- Paul


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## bobbobbobbob (Apr 19, 2016)

I use PVa Glue or normal white carpenters glue and brush it on nice and thick. It does the job for me.


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## PhilB (Apr 19, 2016)

Pauls_Workshop said:


> Hi guys couple questions/comments. So only starting on year 3 of milling for me. I got and used up 1 gallon of Anchorseal II. Am still getting some checking with it. I heard it isn't as good as older Anchorseal I was but could not get that anyplace anymore so tried II. Not really super impressed. Seems to help a little - not much. Debating whether to buy another gallon of this or not bother.
> 
> For paint, is PRIMER any better or just latex PAINT preferred? I found Kilz latex Primer seems to work for me as good as Anchorseal II. Oil bas versus water base primer or paint? I have tried just latex paint and I get some pretty bad checking, maybe a little slightly worse than the Anchorseal II. How many coats should be used?
> 
> Anyone ever try just liquid car wax? Not cheap of course at retail but I have some I didn't pay much of anything for. Might want to try it. Thoughts on all this? thx- Paul


I wouldn't use car wax as I think it has silicon in it which would give you problems with finishes.


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## Sawyer Rob (Apr 19, 2016)

End sealer does NOT stop all "end checking" permanently......nothing will do that. But, what a GOOD end sealer will do, is to extend the time it takes for the ends to check, giving you an extended time to get the logs milled.

Once milled, it will keep the "lumber" from end checking, or at least not nearly so bad, IF the log/lumber isn't "full of tension" in the first place...

SR


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## Hunt4lumber (Apr 19, 2016)

Good to know all
I planned on being milling by now
Life makes delays tho
My wife and i had twins a couple days ago!
So i have all the equipment and logs sawed into 10' lengths and put a heavy coat of end sealer on em and following day were having twins!
All going well and will have to wait for my milling cherry to be popped...
Thanks guys for all the info...


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## ChoppyChoppy (Apr 19, 2016)

The checking, at least in our logs, doesn't go more than a few inches. It's much cheaper to sacrifice a few inches of log vs spending time and money gooping crap on log ends!

We did over 50k in lumber sales last year so I'm not talking out my ass.


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## Sawyer Rob (Apr 19, 2016)

ValleyFirewood said:


> The checking, at least in our logs, doesn't go more than a few inches. It's much cheaper to sacrifice a few inches of log vs spending time and money gooping crap on log ends!
> 
> We did over 50k in lumber sales last year so I'm not talking out my ass.


 Then again, how much nice walnut do you cut in Alaska?? How about white or red oak?? Cherry??

All of the years I spent in Alaska, around Palmer and other parts, I didn't see any of these species growing... lol AND when I went to Anchorage to buy some, it cost me an arm and a leg!!

BTW, I don't end coat lower quality logs either....

SR


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## BobL (Apr 19, 2016)

Iron.and.bark said:


> Caltex timber sealer



What minimum quantity amounts can you but. When I looked into getting some I had to get a 200L drum plus freight from the east which made it very expensive.


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## Runknpap (Apr 19, 2016)

I use roofing tar. It does a good job. Couple coats. And it's pretty cheap


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## Pauls_Workshop (Apr 20, 2016)

Guys, can anyone answer my questions here? What type of paint or primer? How many coats? 

For paint, is PRIMER any better or just latex PAINT preferred? I found Kilz latex Primer seems to work for me as good as Anchorseal II. Oil base versus water base primer or paint? I have tried just latex paint and I get some pretty bad checking, maybe a little slightly worse than the Anchorseal II. How many coats should be used?

thanks all - Paul


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## Shawn Curry (Apr 20, 2016)

Sawing immediately to remove tension is the key for me. I use a knockoff product from my local specialty woodworking store that has very similar properties to anchorseal (Rockler green lumber end sealer). I thought it would help prevent checking in some logs I wasn't able to saw right away. It may well have reduced or slowed it down, but the internal tension was still there and they checked anyway.

I have some other lumber that was sawn right after bucking the logs, and from there was immediately stored in my garage. I never sealed it and it hasn't checked. It was also very straight and clear and the heart was sawn thru 2 ways. Nowadays I save it for the pieces that I know contain tension like crotch slabs.

Also note, products like Anchorseal and the knockoff that I use dry almost clear. This is important for me so I can see the center of the log and the orientation of the growth rings. I would not use paint for this reason.


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## Sawyer Rob (Apr 20, 2016)

ValleyFirewood said:


> Your post makes no sense. Where did I say anything about Walnut? Oak?
> We cut lumber for framing, siding, flatbed floors, etc.
> You guys can do whatever you want, I'm just sharing what I do.



WELL, when you make a statement like this,


ValleyFirewood said:


> We did over 50k in lumber sales last year so I'm not talking out my ass.



Bottom line is, you are sawing "softwood" logs, and that pretty much has nothing do with "hardwood" logs like walnut and oak, and many of us here ARE milling hardwood logs.

SO, you are only "not talking out of your ass" when it comes to soft wood logs... lol lol

SR


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## Sawyer Rob (Apr 20, 2016)

ValleyFirewood said:


> Where did anyone talk about hardwood vs softwood?
> 
> After you goop roofing tar, old paint, etc you still have to cut a cookie off each end right? At least I'm assuming most on here are just using a chainsaw to cut lumber vs a band or blade sawmill.


 Where did anyone say this was ONLY about softwood???

I use Anchorseal, and with it, you can saw right through it, no problem at all...

SR


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## Pauls_Workshop (Apr 20, 2016)

Shawn, thanks, some really great information in your post. As I learn more milling, I'm finding some slabs just want to check and crack due to tension regardless of what I do. Some of my English Walnut I'm doing the last year really wants to check. Some with Anchorseal, some with paint, some with primer, nothing really great. I've also had real bad luck with fruit trees like Plum and Apple I'm drying. Now some Maple, doesn't seem to want to check no matter what. Easy. I may start trying 2-3 coats of paint. Anyone know though if primer is useful at all over just paint? Oil base primer sucks in quite a way into the wood. I'm wondering if this would help resist the checking, combined with paint coats on top of it? - Paul


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## ChoppyChoppy (Apr 21, 2016)

Sawyer Rob said:


> Where did anyone say this was ONLY about softwood???
> 
> I use Anchorseal, and with it, you can saw right through it, no problem at all...
> 
> SR



We cut soft and hardwood. While it may not be super expensive rare wood, I doubt most on here are milling that either.


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## IyaMan (Apr 21, 2016)

Is there any difference in wood checking if milled quarter-sawn?


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## Shawn Curry (Apr 21, 2016)

Yes, quarter sawn is much less likely to check. (Unless it contains the heart, but then you can't really call it 'quartered')

As the board dries out, it shrinks (in width, not length). When that shrinkage does not happen in a consistent way throughout the board is when you have checking.


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## Mad Professor (Apr 21, 2016)

Sawyer Rob said:


> Anchorseal is the stuff to get, paint may make YOU feel good, but it's a POOR replacement for real end sealer.
> 
> Wax is good too, just harder to use...
> 
> ...



What he said


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## Mad Professor (Apr 21, 2016)

Shawn Curry said:


> Sawing immediately to remove tension is the key for me. I use a knockoff product from my local specialty woodworking store that has very similar properties to anchorseal (Rockler green lumber end sealer). I thought it would help prevent checking in some logs I wasn't able to saw right away. It may well have reduced or slowed it down, but the internal tension was still there and they checked anyway.
> 
> I have some other lumber that was sawn right after bucking the logs, and from there was immediately stored in my garage. I never sealed it and it hasn't checked. It was also very straight and clear and the heart was sawn thru 2 ways. Nowadays I save it for the pieces that I know contain tension like crotch slabs.
> 
> Also note, products like Anchorseal and the knockoff that I use dry almost clear. This is important for me so I can see the center of the log and the orientation of the growth rings. I would not use paint for this reason.




Also note that hard and softwoods differ location of stress. Softwoods have compression wood (downhill side/lean) and hardwoods have tension wood (uphill side/lean)


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## Sawyer Rob (Apr 21, 2016)

ValleyFirewood said:


> We cut soft and hardwood. While it may not be super expensive rare wood, I doubt most on here are milling that either.


 You don't have to read on this site very long to read about guys milling oak, maple, walnut and other hardwoods and lot's of it, they are valued tree's... ALL of which dry out (end check) differently than the softwood that Alaska is full of...or even the softwoods in the lower 48.

Even the birch in Alaska end checks differently from the spruce... I've sawn and used quite a bit of it up there...

And then there's the climate differences between the lower 48 and Alaska too, that also affects end checking greatly.

SR


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## Mad Professor (Apr 21, 2016)

For hardwoods we always stack and sticker in the shade with a top cover to keep rain off.


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## Pauls_Workshop (Apr 22, 2016)

Mad Professor said:


> For hardwoods we always stack and sticker in the shade with a top cover to keep rain off.



One more question for you guys: Who has tried other ways to stack and dry the wood? Anyone try setting the slabs vertical and not horizontal? I've heard this can work but have not tried it. Also, what about horizontal but on its side rather than flat, like dominoes but on their long side instead of their short side when put in a "domino" row? The reason I ask is that stiffness is proportional to height cubed. So, as the wood is drying, on end or side vertical vs flat would be much less likely to bend in the vertical direction due to much higher stiffness in that direction. Anyone tried such things? - Paul


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## BobL (Apr 22, 2016)

Once dry I store some vertically.


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## Mad Professor (Apr 22, 2016)

Pauls_Workshop said:


> One more question for you guys: Who has tried other ways to stack and dry the wood? Anyone try setting the slabs vertical and not horizontal? I've heard this can work but have not tried it. Also, what about horizontal but on its side rather than flat, like dominoes but on their long side instead of their short side when put in a "domino" row? The reason I ask is that stiffness is proportional to height cubed. So, as the wood is drying, on end or side vertical vs flat would be much less likely to bend in the vertical direction due to much higher stiffness in that direction. Anyone tried such things? - Paul



I always stack horizontal and put some large pieces on top to keep things from twisting. When I worked at a mill we had banders and all the stacks got banded for the same reason.


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## Iron.and.bark (Apr 23, 2016)

BobL said:


> What minimum quantity amounts can you but. When I looked into getting some I had to get a 200L drum plus freight from the east which made it very expensive.



20l drum was last perchase. Will confirm for you if you like?


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## BobL (Apr 23, 2016)

Iron.and.bark said:


> 20l drum was last perchase. Will confirm for you if you like?


Yes please.


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## KiwiBro (Apr 24, 2016)

bobbobbobbob said:


> I use PVa Glue or normal white carpenters glue and brush it on nice and thick. It does the job for me.


I'm surprised nobody has replied to this. I do the same and am still experimenting with different dilution (with water) rates to find the differences. I'm happy with it. Hasn't been bettered by anything else I have tried and is darn cheap.


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## Pauls_Workshop (Apr 25, 2016)

KiwiBro said:


> I'm surprised nobody has replied to this. I do the same and am still experimenting with different dilution (with water) rates to find the differences. I'm happy with it. Hasn't been bettered by anything else I have tried and is darn cheap.



That's interesting on the glue option. But that isn't really cheap. A gallon of glue costs alot. How much can you water it down and still work? - Paul


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## Pauls_Workshop (Apr 25, 2016)

Mad Professor said:


> I always stack horizontal and put some large pieces on top to keep things from twisting. When I worked at a mill we had banders and all the stacks got banded for the same reason.



The idea is if stacked vertically, it shouldn't want to twist or warp much at all due to gravity effects. It might still want to due to tension effects though. The reason you have to put weight on horizontal stacks is because the wood is not stiff when laid out horizontally and will bend that way without the weight. Vertically, very very stiff and doesn't need any weight on top of it. I'm going to try some of this, but I don't know how it works in practice, which is why I'm asking. - Paul


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## KiwiBro (Apr 27, 2016)

I found a deal a year or so back on pva glue, 20l for $25. On stable drying wood I have gone down to a 50:50 mix with OK results. On the more temperamental woods I stick to undiluted, or just a small amount of water. Have also used red or blue food colouring so it's easier to see at a glance the ends have been sealed. Like Rob, I seal logs straight away if can and don't have to mess with individual bits after milling unless docking bits.


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## Pauls_Workshop (Apr 27, 2016)

KiwiBro said:


> I found a deal a year or so back on pva glue, 20l for $25. On stable drying wood I have gone down to a 50:50 mix with OK results. On the more temperamental woods I stick to undiluted, or just a small amount of water. Have also used red or blue food colouring so it's easier to see at a glance the ends have been sealed. Like Rob, I seal logs straight away if can and don't have to mess with individual bits after milling unless docking bits.



thanks Kiwi, very interesting. Have you had your wood dry several years so you know the results with the glue vs. other methods? I don't think I could ever find that much glue that cheap where I'm at in the US though. - Paul


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## KiwiBro (Apr 28, 2016)

[QUOTE="Pauls_Workshop, post: 5839639, member: 123080]Have you had your wood dry several years so you know the results with the glue vs. other methods? [/QUOTE] only some species, from real stable to highly tensioned, cypress to some eucalyptus. Still experimenting with other ideas too, including no sealer, no stickers, piled tight and in shade for a year before sticker in. Lots of different ways to try yet.


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## bobbobbobbob (Apr 28, 2016)

I've been using glue on the plank ends and on bowl blanks for the last 20 years and have achieved good consistent results every time. I don't bother diluting the mixture as it is very inexpensive to begin with. You might try bonding liquid as it is usually the generic name for pva glue or make your own. I currently have about 10 cu meters of oak drying in my shed using this mix on the ends. I air dry oak and kiln dry most everything else.


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## Pauls_Workshop (Apr 28, 2016)

ok thanks. You sound alot like me Kiwi, always wanting to try new ideas and find the better methods. I did find here in the states at Home Depot one can get 5 gallons of TiteBond PVA original glue for about $15 a gallon in that quantity, which is about 2/3rds the cost of the gallons of wax sealer. That might also be able to be watered down somewhat. I'm doing some english walnut that just wants to check no matter what I've tried. I may try just a bit of glue on that next and see how it does. If it doesn't check, I'll know it is better than the other options for me. I'm learning why english walnut just comes in tiny little pieces if you want to buy any. Really hard to keep it together when drying. - Paul


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## Pauls_Workshop (Apr 28, 2016)

bobbobbobbob said:


> I've been using glue on the plank ends and on bowl blanks for the last 20 years and have achieved good consistent results every time. I don't bother diluting the mixture as it is very inexpensive to begin with. You might try bonding liquid as it is usually the generic name for pva glue or make your own. I currently have about 10 cu meters of oak drying in my shed using this mix on the ends. I air dry oak and kiln dry most everything else.



Thanks Bob,bob,bob that is the long term info we need. So sounds like a good option to me. I will try it ! - Paul


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## Pauls_Workshop (Apr 28, 2016)

Looks like around here, can get 1 gallon of the TiteBond original glue for about $16 vs. the Bonding Liquid for about $12 a gallon. I think though the Bonding Liquid is pretty watered down already, so the better deal may be the glue. If the glue can be stretched to make 2 gallons, that would be $16 for two vs about $28 for the liquid wax for one gallon, a much better choice if it works. I have a little bit and will try some next! - paul


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## Sawyer Rob (Apr 28, 2016)

Right now, original Anchorseal cost me $18.40 per gallon, shipped, buying 5 gallons at a time...

I never tried Anchorseal 2.

SR


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## Pauls_Workshop (Apr 28, 2016)

Sawyer Rob said:


> Right now, original Anchorseal cost me $18.40 per gallon, shipped, buying 5 gallons at a time...
> 
> I never tried Anchorseal 2.
> 
> SR



Yeah 5 gallons is alot though for a hobby millist. Where do you find Anchorseal I? I could not find it anywhere just II which I don't think is that good. - Paul


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## Sawyer Rob (Apr 28, 2016)

I've had no problem keeping it, I just transfer it into a smaller container as needed.

Classic Anchorseal can be bought from the maker... UC Coatings...

SR


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## Pauls_Workshop (Apr 29, 2016)

Sawyer Rob said:


> I've had no problem keeping it, I just transfer it into a smaller container as needed.
> 
> Classic Anchorseal can be bought from the maker... UC Coatings...
> 
> SR



Thanks, did not know about getting it from UC direct. $92 for 5 gallons shipped there right now. Not terrible at about $18.40 a gallon for original A1 in that quantity. Glue is still cheaper though but just barely, but is locally available and by the gallon. 5 Gallons would last me about 5 years or so at my current milling rates so alot to hold onto. I'm out right now of the Anchorseal II so may try some glue next. My english walnut would develop some checks just weeks after covered in paint or anchorseal II so should see if glue is viable fairly soon after cutting it. - Paul


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## Czech_Made (May 5, 2016)

I recently pulled out of storage some of the maple I sealed ends with candle wax and it is far superior to any paint. There was literally no crack to be found, it was definitely worth the pain of dipping it in melted wax (I guess you call it paraffin)


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## ChoppyChoppy (May 5, 2016)

I cut some birch that was end cracked bad (few pieces had cracked 1/4" wide. Just took a 1-2" cookie off the end to be in none cracked wood.
Normally cut saw logs about 6-8" longer than needed.


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## Pauls_Workshop (May 5, 2016)

Czech_Made said:


> I recently pulled out of storage some of the maple I sealed ends with candle wax and it is far superior to any paint. There was literally no crack to be found, it was definitely worth the pain of dipping it in melted wax (I guess you call it paraffin)



Good to know. But "dipping" my hardwood slab that weighs about 150 pounds is hard to do! I am not really a Lumberjack I just have milling wanna be dreams about it!  The wax method is just harder to do in practice as you have to melt it and such. I think good for smaller pieces though for sure or for lathe chunks. - Paul


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## Pauls_Workshop (May 5, 2016)

ValleyFirewood said:


> I cut some birch that was end cracked bad (few pieces had cracked 1/4" wide. Just took a 1-2" cookie off the end to be in none cracked wood.
> Normally cut saw logs about 6-8" longer than needed.



Yeah I've got some 18" long end check cracks in some of my english walnut 1 1/8" slabs that were covered liberally with Anchorseal II a year back. I'd be real happy if only had 6" or less cracks to cut off. Maple is really easy, only couple inches with Anchorseal II or paint, but this walnut is something else. I'm just recently doing some red river birch, my first time with birch, so have to see how that does. I painted that. - Paul


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## Czech_Made (Jun 1, 2016)

I wanted to seal endgrain on trailer gate, used piece of candle and plumbers torch to melt it and soak it in the wood. First I was afraid it is gonna burn, but it worked really well.


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## KiwiBro (Jun 1, 2016)

Pauls_Workshop said:


> Yeah I've got some 18" long end check cracks in some of my english walnut 1 1/8" slabs that were covered liberally with Anchorseal II a year back. I'd be real happy if only had 6" or less cracks to cut off. Maple is really easy, only couple inches with Anchorseal II or paint, but this walnut is something else. I'm just recently doing some red river birch, my first time with birch, so have to see how that does. I painted that. - Paul


do you have a river or Creek you can leave an unsealed green test slab in for a few weeks? Or a dehumidifying Kiln you could send a test slab to?


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## Pauls_Workshop (Jun 1, 2016)

KiwiBro said:


> do you have a river or Creek you can leave an unsealed green test slab in for a few weeks? Or a dehumidifying Kiln you could send a test slab to?



Hi Kiwi, no unfortunately I don't have either, no water and no kiln available. I actually just live on a 1/2 an acre, not much, but get the trees from family and friends and bring them to my place for the milling. I do know alot of the english walnut had stresses in them. I'll mill limbs and branches, not just the trunk, so some of it is from limbs. But in general, this wood is by far the most prone to checking I've ever had so far. I'll be doing the glue test instead of paint but been too busy to do any milling last few weeks. I have now tried two coats of paint though instead of just one and that does make a big difference also. I think one is woefully insufficient, but two may be good enough. One coat of Arborcoat II seems woefully insufficient too. - Paul


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## wombler (Jun 1, 2016)

Some completely left-field thinking here... but has anyone tried clamping the ends of prone-to-checking logs, presumably in addition to end-sealing? Since the problem that end-sealing is meant to correct is seemingly temporary stresses (due to uneven drying rates), I'm thinking that if you clamped the ends while drying, once the whole shebang was dry, the stresses on the ends wouldn't be great enough to rip it all apart. Probably wouldn't work so well on logs, but if you had a high quality length of timber, you'd end-seal on felling/bucking, mill ASAP, then clamp the ends (on both axes) and leave to dry. Perhaps it would contribute to unacceptable warping (the stresses would presumably have to go *somewhere*), but on the other hand, it might work OK.

I'm talking entirely hypothetically and from an inexperienced viewpoint, I was mostly just curious if anyone had tried it, and found it to be an utterly stupid idea.


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## KiwiBro (Jun 1, 2016)

Pauls_Workshop said:


> Hi Kiwi, no unfortunately I don't have either, no water and no kiln available. I actually just live on a 1/2 an acre, not much, but get the trees from family and friends and bring them to my place for the milling. I do know alot of the english walnut had stresses in them. I'll mill limbs and branches, not just the trunk, so some of it is from limbs. But in general, this wood is by far the most prone to checking I've ever had so far. I'll be doing the glue test instead of paint but been too busy to do any milling last few weeks. I have now tried two coats of paint though instead of just one and that does make a big difference also. I think one is woefully insufficient, but two may be good enough. One coat of Arborcoat II seems woefully insufficient too. - Paul


Congrats on narrowing down what works best for you. 

Maybe you have or can find a kids paddling pool or some other way to make a temporary tank long enough to take a test slab? I haven't tried the total immersion idea with slabs but have with firewood and it certainly dried quick, but I never really paid much attention to the end checking of firewood. At some stage, I'll take a freshly fallen, stressed log, cut it in two and tie one length off in a river for a while and see what happens when it's pulled out and sat next to the other one.


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## scheffa (Jun 2, 2016)

What is the theory behind soaking the timber in water??
We have been dealing logs with left over paint until recent, we buy blocks of paraffin waxand only type not sure of the name, they get mixed 80/20, melt it in a pot on a small camp stove then brush it on. The second wax adds flexibility to the paraffin


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## Pauls_Workshop (Jun 3, 2016)

KiwiBro said:


> do you have a river or Creek you can leave an unsealed green test slab in for a few weeks? Or a dehumidifying Kiln you could send a test slab to?



Hi Kiwi, no unfortunately I don't have either, no water and no kiln available. I actually just live on a 1/2 an acre, not much, but get the trees from family and friends and bring them to my place for the milling. I do know alot of the english walnut had stresses in them. I'll mill limbs and branches, not just the trunk, so some of it is from limbs. But in general, this wood is by far the most prone to checking I've ever had so far. I'll be doing the glue test instead of paint but been too busy to do any milling last few weeks. I have now tried two coats of paint though instead of just one and that does make a big difference also. I think one is woefully insufficient, but two may be good enough. One coat of Arborcoat II seems woefully insufficient too. - Paul


KiwiBro said:


> Congrats on narrowing down what works best for you.
> 
> Maybe you have or can find a kids paddling pool or some other way to make a temporary tank long enough to take a test slab? I haven't tried the total immersion idea with slabs but have with firewood and it certainly dried quick, but I never really paid much attention to the end checking of firewood. At some stage, I'll take a freshly fallen, stressed log, cut it in two and tie one length off in a river for a while and see what happens when it's pulled out and sat next to the other one.





KiwiBro said:


> Congrats on narrowing down what works best for you.
> 
> Maybe you have or can find a kids paddling pool or some other way to make a temporary tank long enough to take a test slab? I haven't tried the total immersion idea with slabs but have with firewood and it certainly dried quick, but I never really paid much attention to the end checking of firewood. At some stage, I'll take a freshly fallen, stressed log, cut it in two and tie one length off in a river for a while and see what happens when it's pulled out and sat next to the other one.



Interesting idea on the immersion. I'm assuming the idea here would be to relieve the built in stresses without having the drying process affect that part? Explain the concept more if you would. My slabs are often 8' long or so so I would need a big pool to do it. 

On the clamping idea above, also interesting. That would "contain" the stresses for the time it is clamped and could allow the drying to complete while separating out the built in stresses. But those stresses would still be there after it is dried or mostly be there. So I think it may still want to crack after the clamps are removed finally. But don't know. I love this free thinking going on here! 

To give some idea of the limbs I will cut, I have some that are almost perfect half circles of limb at about 6' radius, 15" width! I ripped those in the middle vertically through, thinking maybe a bed headboard/footboard project or big round table filled in the middle with other wood pieces or something. Like a giant bow for a bow and arrow, but pulled with tensile stress on either end ready to "fire" the arrow. This isn't dried yet but we'll see how that goes. English Walnut is very strong, about 2x Oak, so can grow limbs in all kinds of weird directions and not care much about it. Having said all the above though on the limbs, I've also had bad checking on the main trunk parts too, without much of the residual stresses present there. - Paul


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## wombler (Jun 4, 2016)

Pauls_Workshop said:


> On the clamping idea above, also interesting. That would "contain" the stresses for the time it is clamped and could allow the drying to complete while separating out the built in stresses. But those stresses would still be there after it is dried or mostly be there. So I think it may still want to crack after the clamps are removed finally. But don't know. I love this free thinking going on here!



Yes, the built-in stresses would definitely still be there, possibly splitting or contributing to warping. The thing is, those stresses are going to be there no matter how it dries -- sealed, unsealed, kiln, immersed, whatever. The only way to avoid those problems is how the timber is milled: quarter sawn or rift sawn rather than flat sawn, taking account of the orientation of the standing tree to the sun, and accounting for the location of reaction wood. So many things to take into account when trying to get the best possible outcome; I find it fascinating that something as seemingly simple as "turn tree into lumber" has so many nuances.


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## Pauls_Workshop (Jun 4, 2016)

Well said Wombler, I agree. Maybe I should think about some quarter sawing vs. just flat sawing on some of it. I've heard 1/4 sawing was good for black cherry too? Anyone know on that one? I've done some Plum and Apple, both similar fruit trees as Cherry, and they do like to split if you look at them twice. I didn't think it would be needed for walnut, but mabe it is for some of these pieces. I'm only on year 3 of milling, and I think I'll keep learning till year 40 of so. - Paul


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## rarefish383 (Jun 7, 2016)

You guys talking about bent limbs and curves in logs, got me thinking. In the woods behind my buddies house is an old Tulip Poplar. Looks like another tree fell on it about 100 years ago. Bent it over almost to the ground. Then it turned back up to the light. By the time the tree that bent it over rotted away, the tree had two giant bends in it. It must be close to four foot across. I always wondered if it could be milled with out coming apart. Next time I'm over my friends house I'll take pics. I think there is also a big hollow in the bottom, because I was always wishing the thing would snap off, Joe.


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## KiwiBro (Jun 7, 2016)

scheffa said:


> What is the theory behind soaking the timber in water??


 Not really sure what's going on at the fibre cell level, but I have found firewood that has been left in a body of water for a week or two seems to season way faster than normal when it's pulled out. If I were to guess, I'd say the resin/sap either gets diluted by the water, and/or the cell walls cannot dry rapidly enough to kind of case harden and block the movement of moisture vapour, thus the moisture can escape better.
As to what difference it makes to the natural stresses in the timber, I have no idea. There's a few quite stressed gum logs I have and will continue to drop, and I'll do a few tests for comparison.


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## jessejames (Jun 9, 2016)

i coat ends of hardwood logs asap after bucking to length. make my own wax emulsion by shaving parafin wax with a block plane and desolving in paint thinner. looks just like anchor seal. goes on milky, dries clear. $150/ 20 liter pail + shipping from the mainland for anchor seal.


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## Pauls_Workshop (Jun 11, 2016)

rarefish383 said:


> You guys talking about bent limbs and curves in logs, got me thinking. In the woods behind my buddies house is an old Tulip Poplar. Looks like another tree fell on it about 100 years ago. Bent it over almost to the ground. Then it turned back up to the light. By the time the tree that bent it over rotted away, the tree had two giant bends in it. It must be close to four foot across. I always wondered if it could be milled with out coming apart. Next time I'm over my friends house I'll take pics. I think there is also a big hollow in the bottom, because I was always wishing the thing would snap off, Joe.



Hey Rarefish, YES, you can definitely mill those bent wood pieces and make rounded wood projects from them. But I don't use an Alaskan mill to do it. You could but the guide rail system would have to somewhat accommodate the bend, which may be hard to do. I just do my vertical mill-free cutting on them. Set them upright supported on either side well so they won't tip over. Start cutting, either from the middle down each end or from one end first or whatever. Go down one side, then the other till it is split right in half. You want to *always* cut right through the middle or better even make a 2" cant right out of the middle to deal with the Pith in the middle, which is the root cause of many a crack. Never leave that in a cant if you can help it or even if you can't! Sorry, pun intended there. Anyhow, if a big diameter log, do more similar vertical cuts as desired to make "cants" from them with the radius intact. Be careful when free milling like this without any mill to not get the tip of the saw on top touching wood unless "trapped" by the piece well to avoid any kickback. Otherwise, as safe as any other way to use a chainsaw. I like to free mill with my 28" bar but use whatever you have. - Paul


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## Pauls_Workshop (Jun 11, 2016)

jessejames said:


> i coat ends of hardwood logs asap after bucking to length. make my own wax emulsion by shaving parafin wax with a block plane and desolving in paint thinner. looks just like anchor seal. goes on milky, dries clear. $150/ 20 liter pail + shipping from the mainland for anchor seal.



Jesse, please send us the exact recipe and process!! I would like to try it. If there is a way to do it without having to heat or melt the wax, I need to know how to do it! Share! How are the bears on Vanvouver Island? I love watching the "Alone" survival show on cable now on Vancouver Island. Looks like a beautiful place, millers paradise, but kindov dangerous!!! - Paul


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## rarefish383 (Jun 13, 2016)

Pauls_Workshop said:


> Hey Rarefish, YES, you can definitely mill those bent wood pieces and make rounded wood projects from them. But I don't use an Alaskan mill to do it. You could but the guide rail system would have to somewhat accommodate the bend, which may be hard to do. I just do my vertical mill-free cutting on them. Set them upright supported on either side well so they won't tip over. Start cutting, either from the middle down each end or from one end first or whatever. Go down one side, then the other till it is split right in half. You want to *always* cut right through the middle or better even make a 2" cant right out of the middle to deal with the Pith in the middle, which is the root cause of many a crack. Never leave that in a cant if you can help it or even if you can't! Sorry, pun intended there. Anyhow, if a big diameter log, do more similar vertical cuts as desired to make "cants" from them with the radius intact. Be careful when free milling like this without any mill to not get the tip of the saw on top touching wood unless "trapped" by the piece well to avoid any kickback. Otherwise, as safe as any other way to use a chainsaw. I like to free mill with my 28" bar but use whatever you have. - Paul



Paul, I'd have to wait for this tree to blow over. It's in the woods on someone else's property. My cousin has a crane truck, but no way to get close. I've milled 3" X 27" X 8', Tulip Poplar and those planks were well over 100 lbs. Can you imagine how heavy a 3" bar top plank would weigh. If this tree every goes over I'll figure out something, but I doubt I'll stand it up. I've done some free hand milling and it was pretty accurate, works fine for benches around the fire pit. I'll see if I can get some pics of this bent tree soon, Joe.


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## Pauls_Workshop (Jun 13, 2016)

It sounds like it would be a fun one to mill Joe! 

I like the odd shaped pieces. I'm a bit of an odd duck myself, so I like my wood to be a bit eccentric too! In grain, type, or shapes! I'm sure I'll use them for something fun! I also have been known to mill much smaller bent wood radiused pieces. I have some Black Locust "boomerangs" that I plan to save for rounded handles for toolcarts, cabinets, that sort of thing or rounded trim for end tables or mirrors. Or maybe vertical tool holders. The imagination is the only limit! Rather than cut the limbs to only be straight pieces, I'll save them as symmetrical radius length chunks usually and leave those bends in. Later on, I hope to really contribute to the milled projects thread as my first and longest hobby is woodworking, but my stuff is drying for now, and don't have the time now either. I did make a nice train/truck for my little kids out of scrap English Walnut I had. Turned out real nice. Shame I had to paint it all though as that was what my 4 year old boy directed me to do! It is made of 5 colors and no beautiful walnut grain showing! - Paul


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## Czech_Made (Jun 15, 2016)

KiwiBro said:


> Not really sure what's going on at the fibre cell level, but I have found firewood that has been left in a body of water for a week or two seems to season way faster than normal when it's pulled out. If I were to guess, I'd say the resin/sap either gets diluted by the water, and/or the cell walls cannot dry rapidly enough to kind of case harden and block the movement of moisture vapour, thus the moisture can escape better.
> As to what difference it makes to the natural stresses in the timber, I have no idea. There's a few quite stressed gum logs I have and will continue to drop, and I'll do a few tests for comparison.



I dont know what happens in the log either but in old days in my old country wood was send down the river in rafts - wood from rafts is better quality, harder and less prone to damage by bugs.


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## Pauls_Workshop (Jun 15, 2016)

Czech_Made said:


> I dont know what happens in the log either but in old days in my old country wood was send down the river in rafts - wood from rafts is better quality, harder and less prone to damage by bugs.



There MUST be something to this water immersion then. It must be beneficial. Who else has done this! Surely some on the forum have! - Paul


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## rlagroup (Aug 26, 2016)

RLA Group have a product called "Endcheck", comes in either a 20L or 200L drum. For more information email [email protected] with your contact details & I will respond with pricing, details etc.
Regards
David Meiklejohn


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