# Splicing



## Jim1NZ (Apr 25, 2005)

Just wondering who to talk to about splicing climbing ropes etc?
I'm hanging out to learn correct climbing rope splicing, but is it practical to learn on line?
I spliced a 3 strand chain saw strop, that was a mission in itself.
I heard you cant splice a rope once you've used it a few times as the frays in the rope stuff up the splice / make it harder to do?...


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## MasterBlaster (Apr 25, 2005)

This guy might be able to help you.


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## Husky288XP (Apr 25, 2005)

Splicing is a useful skill to keep in your arsenal, as for splicing used cordage it can be difficult. Is the rope third-strand or sixteen-strand?


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## NickfromWI (Apr 25, 2005)

Thank you MB.



Jim1NZ said:


> Just wondering who to talk to about splicing climbing ropes etc?
> I'm hanging out to learn correct climbing rope splicing, but is it practical to learn on line?
> I spliced a 3 strand chain saw strop, that was a mission in itself.
> I heard you cant splice a rope once you've used it a few times as the frays in the rope stuff up the splice / make it harder to do?...



You came to the right place. To answer your first question- it is not IDEAL to learn on line, but by combining the little you learn here with any other sources you have available, you should be able to produce some very usable splices.

When you spliced the 3 strand, were you following directions from a book, or were you freestyling?

Used rope CAN be spliced, it's just harder to do, and SOMETIMES is impossible. It is best to learn on new rope.

So what is it you're trying to splice. Feel free to email me any questions you have, or you can always post them here!

love
nick


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## Lumberjack (Apr 25, 2005)

Hey, talk to nick, he taught me how to splice 16 strand The first splice I ever made is on my lanyard I am fixing to retire.


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## MasterBlaster (Apr 25, 2005)

Lumberjack said:


> I am fixing to retire.



Dam bro, you've done that well so quick? WoW!


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## Lumberjack (Apr 25, 2005)

Hahahaha You know I meant the lanyard?


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## MasterBlaster (Apr 25, 2005)

Yah,yah...


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## Lumberjack (Apr 25, 2005)

We combined the stump and tree service into Rutherford Tree and Stump Service, LLC.

www.rtssllc.com still in its infancty


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## Jim1NZ (Apr 26, 2005)

cheers all.

The rope is baster 16 strand, but i would eventually like to be able to splice the new 24 strand ropes. For now, i think il concentrate on the arbormaster - blue streak
Yea i was just going off a 3 diagram information page when i spliced my 3 strand chainsaw strop.
Cheers for the info on splicing older ropes too Nick


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## Manco (Apr 26, 2005)

You can get some good info from Samson rope. It is good to look at a splice and be able to tell someone you did it yourself.


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## Jim1NZ (Apr 27, 2005)

To true, cheers Manco


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## Tree Machine (Apr 27, 2005)

The 24-strands, I was told (by Petzl) are not splicable. Nick will back me up on this as we got him samples to try out.

The terminations can be sewn to create an eye, either by machine or with an awl, but this has issues. And there is a proprietary helical method that's come out of Switzerland that will work with ANY rope (except 3-strand). Works especially well with the firm, semi-static 11 mm's and 13 mm bull rope. This technique will likely not be released in the United States.


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## seanlarkin (Apr 27, 2005)

TreeMachine,

I think Jim meant the new Velocity, Blaze and Poison Ivy 24-strand climbing lines. Those are all spliceable. 

-Sean


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## Tree Machine (Apr 27, 2005)

Sorry, bad post on my part. I was referring off the 11 mm 24-strand Petzl VECTOR, a fabulous rope, but Petzl told me definitely not splicable. I wrongly assumed the other 24-strands were of similar construction and therefore, similarly, not splicable. Bad, bad, treeguy ! 

I should have recalled back at TCIA Detroit in November when buying a 120 Velocity from Sherrill that we had to dig around to find one that was _not_ spliced.

I stand corrected, and mildly embarrassed. :blush: Thanks, Sean


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## NickfromWI (Apr 27, 2005)

Yeah TM, about those Petzl ropes you had sent to me a few months ago. I tried and tried, and I'm going to have to side with petzl on this one and say that the Vector is NOT spliceable.

I sure had fun trying, though! I tried a few things that would give a good eye to clip in to, but probably only hold maybe 60% of the breaking strength of the rope. Nothing worth calling a good splice.

That rope is a good candidate for the good ol' fashioned fisher persons knot! I don't think it's a big deal because this pretty-static rope might best be used in SRT where line termination is not of major importance.

Blaze splices quite nicely.

love
nick


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## Tree Machine (Apr 27, 2005)

Blaze ovalizes terribly and is the slipperiest rope I've ever climbed on. Not that it's a bad rope, I'm having some fun with it. Seems to be losing it's slippery coat as the days go on. It's almost like it had been siliconed. 

Between it flattening and being slippery, controlling friction has been an interesting challenge. Encourages me to try other methods of friction control, and that's always good.

I sent my VECTOR to Mexico on a caving expedition in Oaxaca. I miss that sucker. Quite possibly the finest rope I've ever climbed on, though not 'conventionally' splicable.

Me loves me 11 mm's.


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## NickfromWI (Apr 27, 2005)

I haven't witnessed the flattengin/ovalizing you mention. I've been quite happy with the "roundness" of my blaze.

love
nick


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## NickfromWI (Apr 27, 2005)

Here's the link for the 16 strand climbing line splice from samson's site. http://www.samsonrope.com/home/pdf/ClassI_16Strand_EyeSplice.pdf

These are the best 16 strand splicing directions I've seen, other than the one's from Buccanneer Rope manufacturing in Alabama. Has anyone ever seen those?  

love
nick


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## Redbull (Apr 27, 2005)

I'm trying to use those instructions to try my first splice on a safety blue hi-vee. I'm a little unclear on step 4. Do I pull out the marked braids completely, and how do I get them out. Thanks, Brandon.


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## jamie (Apr 28, 2005)

*splices*

i found it hard as hell to pull the sheath through itself when performing the splice.....gave up in the end, 

it took all my effort and all i got was tired... no splice no nothing....

jamie


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## NickfromWI (Apr 28, 2005)

Those strands that you marked have to be pulled out. Grab an awl, a pair of needle nose, a nail....something that you can work under the mark on the strand. Then working towards the bitter end (tail) of the splice (the part that's going to be buried later) pull that strand out, without distorting the standing part (the part that will form the eye). So what you'll end up with, when you hold up the tapered tail, is a woven tail made up of 6 strands, and then 10 strands hanging out. These 10 strands will be cut off soon, but don't do it just yet.

Now on to step 5. 

Tell me if this doesn't help.

love
nick


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## jamie (Apr 28, 2005)

*step 5*

its step 5 i cannae do, it just doesnae want to pull through....how much force do others have to exert?

jamie


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## NickfromWI (Apr 28, 2005)

jamie said:


> ....how much force do others have to exert?
> 
> jamie



That might be the problem. The task is accomplished via finesse, not muscle.

Jamie, what are you using to pull the tail through? A coat-hanger (or wire fid, or Toss Wand) is a way to pull it through, and a hollow fid is a way to push it through. I prefer the pull through method because first you insert the wire/wand, then you can do the all-important step of pulling on the core strands to assure they slide smoothly past the wand/wire. If they DO slide, then you haven't accidently snagged one of the core strands when you inserted the wire, making that final bury all the more easy. If you DID snag a strand or two, you'll only be able to slide the core strands a few inches, then they'll just stop. If this happens, back out the wand/wire, then send it through again and test again until you haven't snagged.

Tell me if this helps. And tell more specifically what you're doing, and I might be able to better help you make a great splice!

love
nick


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## jamie (Apr 28, 2005)

*ok*

i think i must have caught a core strand then with a coat hanger doubled up.

i will get back round to trying again soon

jamie


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## NickfromWI (Apr 28, 2005)

Especially for a beginner doing the 16-strand splice, I highly reccomend practicing/learning on NEW rope.

The doubled coat-hanger is a very good way to get this job done.

love
nick


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## Redbull (Apr 28, 2005)

I gave up after trying to insert the hanger as well. I did pull out some new 5/8 three strand that I had and made a decent splice with it. I'm gonna try the 16 strand again.


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## KentuckySawyer (Apr 28, 2005)

I'm interested in splicing, but the diesel and two cycle fumes make it hard to follow written directions. I need to see it. Can you post some pictures, Nick?


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## NickfromWI (Apr 28, 2005)

KentuckySawyer said:


> ...I need to see it. Can you post some pictures, Nick?



Sadly, the answer is no. First, it's SUPER time consuming to take pictures while splicing, then post them all up here. That is but a minor deterrent, however. The real prob is that my digital camera is not so keen on taking close up pictures. I've tried before, but they just come out fuzzy. There is only a crappy digital zoom, and I must be like 2' away from the subject. That combined with a moderate 3.2megapixels equals bad rope pictures, bad close ups.

Sorry! I try my best!

love
nick


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## KentuckySawyer (Apr 28, 2005)

No problem. I still dig my knots.


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## TreeJunkie (Apr 28, 2005)

How safe is this learning splicing on a forum?  

I think it's a good idea to sit down w/ a knowledgeable splicer and see how to do it hands on. That way you can't screw up too bad.

At least Buy the Toss video.


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## Lumberjack (Apr 28, 2005)

Junkie, I learned how to splice 16 strand on AIM. My first splice was on a lanyard that I am fixing to retire, my second splice was on a short (75') climbing line.

16 strand is hard to mess up if you understand why your doing what your doing, and not just following the directions. Makes it easy to see how and where the strength is coming from.


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## NickfromWI (Apr 28, 2005)

Lumberjack said:


> 16 strand is hard to mess up if you understand why your doing what your doing, and not just following the directions. Makes it easy to see how and where the strength is coming from.



That's the funny thing about splicing. Once you know how to do a certain rope, then you can see where the strength is coming from, then you can understand why you do what you do when you splice that rope.

To bad there's not a way to understand this BEFORE you know how to do it!

I side with TJ. Ideal situation is someone right there showing you the right way.

love
nick


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## clearance (Apr 29, 2005)

Here in B.C. splicing climbing line is taken very seriously. It is against compensation board regs. for anyone to do it that is not a board certified splicer. Nick, I think you could be board certified easily but very few people here are. I think this reg. is there to help because splicing is not the same as tying a bowline and a tautline. I have a comp. board book on splicing wire rope (for logging), so far well beyond my patience level to figure it out. If I have to join ropes I use bowlines, wire rope I use cable clips.


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## NickfromWI (Apr 29, 2005)

I'm not yet quite sure where I stand on the issue of letting people splice their own ropes. 

One one hand, I learned quite well how to do it. A splice is JUST a glorified knot. We let people tie knots all day without checking them before they do it.

On the other hand...people do make mistakes. Some are more prone to it, are less attentive to detail, and maybe those shouldn't splice.

I think there is a darwinian aspect to splicing. Those that aren't cut out for it don't really get through that first splice. Then they just stick to what they know.

Some have to be getting through the cracks, though. I've seen some bad splices.

love
nick


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## Tree Machine (Apr 29, 2005)

NickfromWI said:


> Those that aren't cut out for it don't really get through that first splice. Then they just stick to what they know.


Or they consult with the Mother of Invention and find a different way.


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## TreeJunkie (Apr 29, 2005)

Lumberjack said:


> Junkie, I learned how to splice 16 strand on AIM. My first splice was on a lanyard that I am fixing to retire, my second splice was on a short (75') climbing line.
> 
> 16 strand is hard to mess up if you understand why your doing what your doing, and not just following the directions. Makes it easy to see how and where the strength is coming from.[/QUOTE
> 
> ...


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## Lumberjack (Apr 29, 2005)

Nick will be doing a training class in MD end of may, I am sure he can sign you up for it.


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## jamie (Apr 29, 2005)

*watching*

it doesnt surprise me that im screwing it up either, my problem is that i know of noone willing to demonstrate it in my area. been searching for some info but the reputable web services seem to be my best bet.

figured out the 3 strand and the tenex very quickly

jamie


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## Lumberjack (Apr 29, 2005)

Nick, what if i took the pics and description and you correct me if i say something wrong? It seems that these folk are just needed some gentle guidance, it seems they are overcomplicating it.

Sound like a plan? It will probably be sat or sun night at the earliest, got finals next week.


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## NickfromWI (Apr 29, 2005)

We can do that, LJ. Probably good for you AND them, AND me!

love
nick


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## MasterBlaster (Apr 29, 2005)

So whassup with the forum you haven't started?


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## NickfromWI (Apr 29, 2005)

Alright, butch, let's get it going. Check your pm


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## MasterBlaster (Apr 29, 2005)

Uhhh... Whut pm?


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## Tree Machine (Apr 29, 2005)

Ayatolla of Rum n' Cola said:


> So whassup with the forum you haven't started?


 What'r you guys talking about?


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## MasterBlaster (Apr 29, 2005)

Rum and cola? Maybe the cola, but I want my whiskey with water!


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## Tree Machine (Apr 29, 2005)

Sorry, Dude. 'Ayatolla of Whisky and Water' just doesn't have the same ring.

How 'bout, 'Astronauta of Whiskey and Watta' ????


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## Tree Machine (Apr 29, 2005)

I'm sorry. Back to splicing. I find this subject absolutely fascinating. Nick is the 'ArboristSite Pope of Splicing Rope'.

He's the "First in the Nation for Termination".

...A spliced eye sorta guy....

HA! I'm a poet, and I don't know it.





(better quit before I blow it)


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## Jim1NZ (Apr 30, 2005)

haha shocking TM


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## jamie (Apr 30, 2005)

*too far*

on the poetry thing, dont give up the day job, (i've heard the day job is more interesting and fun anyway)

jamie


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## knudeNoggin (Apr 30, 2005)

NickfromWInowINjersey said:


> On the other hand...people do make mistakes. Some are more prone to it, are less attentive to detail, and maybe those shouldn't splice. ...I've seen some bad splices.


I'm still shocked at the Practical Sailor (mag.) Sept'01 article about knots
and hi-modulus ropes, which supposedly checked on the Brion Toss like
article in Sail (June'01): Aramid Rigging, who seem to be closely associated
with Yale Cordage, did some splicing of eyes to terminate one end of the test
specimens, but in Yale Light--a PP(or PE?) sheathed Spectra rope--, their
eyes pulled out before the Bowline broke!! And so they re-tied that end with
a Bowline. The entire article was so egregiously shoddy as to raise all sorts
of questions, but, geeesh, the failed-splice(s) bit was a shocker, esp. in the
case of who & what. (Btw, as an indication of how terrible this article is,
in their table of test results (one test per knot-&-rope) for "Bowline" and
"Yale Light" they listed the value at which the eye splice failed, only explaining
this in a FOOTNOTE to the table entry, where they then gave the (higher)
value at which the bowline broke! --incredible!!&^%$ )

*knudeNoggin*


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## NickfromWI (May 2, 2005)

You wouldn't happen to have a copy of that article, would you? The practical sailor website wants $10 to let me read the .pdf. I think I might have to take a trip to the library!

Last I checked, Yale was suggesting a straight up industrial double-braid splice for the Yale Light. Last time I spliced that was the summer of 2003. I wonder what splice they did for the article testing in 2001?

In my opinion, if you were going to try to replicate the Toss article, YaleLight is a weird rope to use. I would've chosen something where the cover is more than just core-protection. Or better yet- a single braid.

love
nick


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## MasterBlaster (May 2, 2005)

NickfromWI said:


> The practical sailor website wants $10 to let me read the .pdf. I think I might have to take a trip to the library!



Dam!!!


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## NickfromWI (May 2, 2005)

Butch, it looks like you should be making $10 a pop for that thing.

love
nick


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## MasterBlaster (May 2, 2005)




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## knudeNoggin (May 4, 2005)

The PS article is so egregiously flawed that they should PAY YOU $10
to read it--it's truly appalling (again, how could they let a splice fail,
and then report that value in place of the Bowline's but for the footnote,
and ... ). Another item from the article: *Sta-Set breaking in a Clove
Hitch at 27%*!! ("In Sta-Set, the hitch held but broke quickly."--secured
"w/1 half-hitch") This datum got no discussion, but it should be quite
a shocker, as Sta-set seems to be a sort of standard line, and the Clove
a standard knot, and the breaking strength extraordinarily low!!??

Okay, LuvNik, coming your way (snailmail) ... .

(-;


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## NickfromWI (May 4, 2005)

I SWEAR I'm going to the library ASAP to check this out.

luvnik


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## jamie (May 18, 2005)

*sorry*

sorry to drag this up again.

been looking at a brion toss wand. anyone got a decent sized picture, that and a cost and supplier as i can't seem to find many places selling them.

oh and any word on the lumberjack / nick project? not to harrass either of you

cheers

jamie


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## NickfromWI (May 18, 2005)

Lumberjack/nick project?

You can see and order the wand at www.briontoss.com. Sherrill also has it. www.wtsherrill.com

love
nick


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## Jim1NZ (May 20, 2005)

I just got my rope spliced today. I thought im best to practice on a little end bit of rope before i start on my main climbing line. Plus it only cost $15!!! Every one says its an excellent splice and the guy that spliced it has sent samples to the USA for quality control and passed with flying colours.

Dont know if i want to learn anymore haha.


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## NickfromWI (May 20, 2005)

Jim, let's see some pictures!

love
nick


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## Jim1NZ (May 21, 2005)

NickfromWI said:


> Jim, let's see some pictures!
> 
> love
> nick



Yea that might be a bit of a problem mate, no digital cam!

Il see what i can do a, i climbed on it today, Premo


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## TonyG (Oct 5, 2005)

*Splicing...*

I'm looking for someone in eastern Pa. or relatively close to splice two eyes in a used Spider Line I use as a light duty bull rope.

Thanks,
Tony Gladski


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## Jim1NZ (Oct 6, 2005)

Ok, i have put it off for ages but i have to learn to splice. Hey nick, where are the best instructions you have seen, i have the Arbormaster instructions so far. What are the tools you use? Cheers


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## Jim1NZ (Oct 6, 2005)

Yea so i got the instructions from samson's site. Should i just give it a go?


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## SamsonMD (Oct 28, 2005)

The splice instructions on Samson's website are the easiest and most complete on the internet. If you have questions, call their customer service, they can help you out.


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## Tree Machine (Oct 28, 2005)

A link to that place within Samson's site, please?


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## NickfromWI (Oct 29, 2005)

http://www.samsonrope.com/home/pdf/ClassI_16Strand_EyeSplice.pdf


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## jamie (Oct 29, 2005)

*eh*

how would you splice this rope? adline

i got it from proclimber (in the uk). its got a 16 strand sheath and a braided core. i have spliced is as a standard double braided line according to a combo of yale, samson and marlow splicing instructions.

they all seemed to say the same thing / technique...

i cant find the rope on edelrids website anywhere

my splices












both are on the same cord as a saw strop. they have both supported my weight (about 2" off the ground)

oh and i have so far not got round to whipping it yet.

sorry for the large file size, im drunk and just got in from a storming night out  

jamie


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## NickfromWI (Oct 30, 2005)

Jim1NZ said:


> Ok, i have put it off for ages but i have to learn to splice. Hey nick, where are the best instructions you have seen, i have the Arbormaster instructions so far. What are the tools you use? Cheers



Jim, sorry, I must've missed that post. Really all you need are a half-decent measuring tape, a sharpie marker, a good pair of scissors, and a wire coat hanger. There are fancier tools, but they are costly. Best to try it with the cheap stuff until you feel like you got the hang of it and want to keep doing it.

love
nick


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## NickfromWI (Oct 30, 2005)

Jamie, from what I understand, and not having held the rope in my hands, the Adline is a polyester double braid and should be spliced as such.

Lock stitch that splice! Low loads (ie- a chainsaw) is where a splice can fail, before the "chinese finger trap" thing starts happenning.

love
nick


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## SamsonMD (Nov 15, 2005)

If it is a double braided climbing line (like Velocity, for instance) you can do a simple Class 1 double braid splice.
http://www.samsonrope.com/home/pdf/ClassI_12Strand_EyeSplice.pdf
The only thing different will be the tapering, as this is for a 12 strand rope.


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## Tree Machine (Nov 15, 2005)

Thank you for that SamsonMD. That is an excellent piece. VERY complete, beginning to end. The graphics are good, too. More pictures are better, and you have almost more. You guys have always given us excellent support, as well as excellent rope. If it weren't for Arbos and Mariners, splicing might become an extinct language.

Splicing and terminations are cool.


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## sprdave (Dec 28, 2005)

I've looked at the instructions on the Sampson site and the neropes site for 16 strand and they both look like a bunch of the core is removed. It looks like the resulting eye splice doesn't have yarns in the loop. Am I right? Is all the strength from the outer (chinese fingercuff) braid?


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## skwerl (Dec 28, 2005)

Welcome Dave, and yes that is correct. For most 16 strand arbo ropes, the core is primarily to help maintain roundness. Almost all the strength is in the outer core.


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## sprdave (Dec 28, 2005)

Nice, I don't have to stuff that core back through.
Bummer, I'll bet it's going to feel like a ski rope when I grab it on the eye.
Maybe I can stuff some yarns from a doner rope for the bend of the eye.


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## NickfromWI (Dec 28, 2005)

You will have plenty of left over strands that you can use to fill the eye. It's tough, but it can be done.

Why do you need the eye to have a core in it?

Yale's splice for the 16 strand rope has the core IN the eye, but you need a machine to do it.

love
nick


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## sprdave (Dec 29, 2005)

I don't need to have a core in it for any purpose other than to make it feel nice. Comfort while I'm rigging up. About 10 seconds of my day while I'm pulling the loop through a clip or something. When I think of a rope with no core, I think of a waterski rope, which always feel chummy to me. I'll be Ok.


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