# Some of what I've been up to.



## redprospector (Sep 10, 2011)

I haven't been around too much lately so I thought I'd show a little of what I've been up to.
The job I've been on started out at 240 acres of thinning, the spec's were for total removal of all merchantable wood, and mastication of everything else. I'm down to my last 53 acre push, I've gotta be done by Dec. 31. The last 53 acres all looks about the same, I saved the best for last I guess. Here's a few pic's from this week.

This is what we started with.











This is what it looks like when I'm done.





















Andy


----------



## rmh3481 (Sep 10, 2011)

Nice job Red, nice and neat. What is that a grinder or a brush mower on the front of the tractor?


----------



## Samlock (Sep 10, 2011)

A very thin stand that is. It's hard to tell by the picture but it looks like 100-150 trees/acre. Is that a standard procedure down there?


----------



## k5alive (Sep 10, 2011)

forestry mowers rock


----------



## 2dogs (Sep 10, 2011)

Nice! Can I borrow the mower for a month or so next spring?


----------



## mdavlee (Sep 10, 2011)

Looks good Andy. Might help reduce fuels there by a lot.


----------



## madhatte (Sep 10, 2011)

That is a nice-looking thin! Good on ya! It's ready for fire now, and I certainly hope that's part of the long-term plans the landowner has in mind. 

Bummer on the Fecon head. We've had nothing but trouble with ours, though it does work well when it's not broken.


----------



## Gologit (Sep 10, 2011)

Nice job, Andy.


----------



## forestryworks (Sep 10, 2011)

I recognize that slope Andy. Thanks for the tour this summer!



Samlock said:


> A very thin stand that is. It's hard to tell by the picture but it looks like 100-150 trees/acre. Is that a standard procedure down there?


 
If I remember correctly, Andy said they are thinning for wildlife and fuels reduction.


----------



## Samlock (Sep 10, 2011)

Ok, thanks for correcting. I'm just not familiar basically with any other thinning than economical. Less burning material for fire that is? Plus it's easier to shoot the game through a thin stand?


----------



## redprospector (Sep 11, 2011)

Thanks for all the kind words guys.
This project has been far from typical for me in this area. The sole reason that the land owner bought this 450 acre spread is for the elk hunting. Now that he's had it for a few years fire has become a real concerne for him also. The land owner is a really good guy, and we have become pretty good friends over the course of this project. But when it comes to hunting he listens to an outfitter that lives down the road. Most outfitters don't know squat about thinning, but most doing the thinning can kill elk. 
The slope in the pictures is a little thinner than a lot of this project for a couple of reasons. One, it is the south west property boundry and that is the direction most fires would come from here, and two, by the time I take out all the blister rust, mistletoe, bark beetle, etc, etc, there ain't much left. My main goal on this slope is to thin it to hopefully keep a fire on the ground when it comes through. This is the first line of defence on this property.
When we talk about thinning for wildlife, and fire prevention..................Well, it get's a little difficult to keep your focus sometimes. A lot of known game trails, and canyons that are regularly traveled by elk and deer are left dark, or un touched, while the areas around them are thinned for fire prevention. To reach a basil (spelling??) area that was acceptable to the state forestry, and still leave enough trees to be acceptable to the land owner I had to use groups of trees in my plan rather than individual trees. It seems to have made everyone happy so it must have been ok.

Andy


----------



## redprospector (Sep 11, 2011)

madhatte said:


> That is a nice-looking thin! Good on ya! It's ready for fire now, and I certainly hope that's part of the long-term plans the landowner has in mind.
> 
> Bummer on the Fecon head. We've had nothing but trouble with ours, though it does work well when it's not broken.


 
I haven't had much trouble out of the Fecon head. I did break of a couple of tool (tooth) holders and had to use my Tushogg head while I was waiting for the parts to get here. I sure hope I didn't just jinx my luck with the Fecon.

Andy


----------



## redprospector (Sep 11, 2011)

rmh3481 said:


> Nice job Red, nice and neat. What is that a grinder or a brush mower on the front of the tractor?


 
I'd call it a grinder.

Andy


----------



## redprospector (Sep 11, 2011)

forestryworks said:


> I recognize that slope Andy. Thanks for the tour this summer!


 
I thought you might. Any time.

Andy


----------



## lfnh (Sep 11, 2011)

Andy -

What's the steepest slope the grinder worked on ?

Great pics. Thanks.


----------



## Slamm (Sep 11, 2011)

How many horsepower is that machine?
What engine does it have in it?

Thanks,

Sam


----------



## redprospector (Sep 11, 2011)

lfnh said:


> Andy -
> 
> What's the steepest slope the grinder worked on ?
> 
> Great pics. Thanks.


 
I haven't taken the time to measure many of the slopes we've done. You're more limited by the engines ability to pick up oil than by the machine's ability to climb. Just have to really watch your gauges (especially oil pressure) when on steep stuff. 
I've had this little rig in places most people won't carry a quart of oil.

Andy


----------



## redprospector (Sep 11, 2011)

Slamm said:


> How many horsepower is that machine?
> What engine does it have in it?
> 
> Thanks,
> ...


 
87 horse power.
Deutz 2011.
They apparently had a lot of trouble with these little engines. It appears that I got one of the good ones.

Andy


----------



## madhatte (Sep 11, 2011)

redprospector said:


> 87 horse power.
> Deutz 2011.
> They apparently had a lot of trouble with these little engines. It appears that I got one of the good ones.


 
Ours is on a Caterpillar skid-steer with some monstrous 125 HP engine shoehorned in there by some outfit from Spokane whose name I currently misremember. Much of the trouble has been with the engine twisting out of its mounts, but the head has not been without trouble either. It just came back from a three-month tour of most of the fab shops in the region with a rock-solid guarantee that "it should work for awhile".


----------



## redprospector (Sep 11, 2011)

madhatte said:


> Ours is on a Caterpillar skid-steer with some monstrous 125 HP engine shoehorned in there by some outfit from Spokane whose name I currently misremember. Much of the trouble has been with the engine twisting out of its mounts, but the head has not been without trouble either. It just came back from a three-month tour of most of the fab shops in the region with a rock-solid guarantee that "it should work for awhile".


 
Haha. Ya gotta love a "rock solid" guarantee like that.
I knew about the problem with the Deutz engine when I bought the Fecon, so I stashed back a 105 horse caterpillar engine just in case. The Cat engine will fit in the hole ok with new mounts, biggest obstacle I see is the Deutz is oil cooled, and the Cat is liquid cooled.

Andy


----------



## madhatte (Sep 12, 2011)

I'd GIVE you ours if I could, just to be rid of it. I think it gets about an hour downtime for every hour of run-time.


----------



## Metals406 (Sep 13, 2011)

Great work Andy!! Looks super parked out, and way healthier.


----------



## forestryworks (Sep 13, 2011)

Andy, did you get many white pine leave trees on that slope?

We got some white pine here in the Davis Mountains. Be interesting to see if there's any blister rust here. Could be a grad school project


----------



## redprospector (Sep 14, 2011)

madhatte said:


> I'd GIVE you ours if I could, just to be rid of it. I think it gets about an hour downtime for every hour of run-time.


 
Gee thanks! Now I know how you really feel about me. 

Andy


----------



## redprospector (Sep 14, 2011)

forestryworks said:


> Andy, did you get many white pine leave trees on that slope?
> 
> We got some white pine here in the Davis Mountains. Be interesting to see if there's any blister rust here. Could be a grad school project


 
Not a lot. Most that didn't have Blister Rust were about 10' tall or less. Maybe the speces is developing a rust resistant strain.

Andy


----------



## forestryworks (Sep 14, 2011)

I know you've read this before Andy, but I thought I'd link it here in case some others were interested: The distribution of white pine blister rust in the Sacramento Mountains of New Mexico


----------



## ShaneLogs (Sep 14, 2011)

Pretty cool set-up there


----------



## forestryworks (Oct 1, 2011)

redprospector said:


> Not a lot. Most that didn't have Blister Rust were about 10' tall or less. Maybe the speces is developing a rust resistant strain.
> 
> Andy


 
It could be. Natural selection and all that.

Here is another white pine blister rust document, Andy. Focuses on the Southwest.
http://www.fs.fed.us/r3/publications/documents/wp_mgmt_guide.pdf


----------



## redprospector (Oct 3, 2011)

forestryworks said:


> It could be. Natural selection and all that.
> 
> Here is another white pine blister rust document, Andy. Focuses on the Southwest.
> http://www.fs.fed.us/r3/publications/documents/wp_mgmt_guide.pdf


 
Thanks, I like reading these articles, it makes me appear smarter than I actually am. 

Andy


----------



## redprospector (Oct 3, 2011)

lfnh said:


> Andy -
> 
> What's the steepest slope the grinder worked on ?
> 
> Great pics. Thanks.


 
I did a little measuring and calculating last week, and the area in the pictures varries between 40% and 57%. The Fecon is rated to handle 58% so I guess I was ok. Of corse my calculations are all + or - a few percent.

Andy


----------



## lfnh (Oct 3, 2011)

redprospector said:


> I did a little measuring and calculating last week, and the area in the pictures varries between 40% and 57%. The Fecon is rated to handle 58% so I guess I was ok. Of corse my calculations are all + or - a few percent.
> 
> Andy


 
Appreciate your time to answer the slope question.
About the carrying a quart of oil, you're right, thanks but i'll pass !

In the 'after' photos posted were those the result of single passes with the Fecon ?

Interesting thread.
Thanks, Lee


----------



## redprospector (Oct 4, 2011)

lfnh said:


> Appreciate your time to answer the slope question.
> About the carrying a quart of oil, you're right, thanks but i'll pass !
> 
> In the 'after' photos posted were those the result of single passes with the Fecon ?
> ...


 
Not a problem, I needed to figure it anyway.
I don't have a "mulching door" on the fecon, so no it wasn't a single pass. Some times it does real good in a single pass, some places I ran it over 3 times.
The slopes aren't too bad until you get a little over 1/2 way up. Then you start getting into exposed rock, then it's no fun at all. I haven't been able to make it all the way to the ridge anywhere yet on this slope, but you can't tell from the road.

Andy


----------



## lfnh (Oct 4, 2011)

Thanks.
From those last couple of photos the ground didn't look like it was chewed very much and the reason for the question. Did the grinder work just as well going upslope as downslope or cross slope ?


----------



## Metals406 (Oct 4, 2011)

redprospector said:


> Not a problem, I needed to figure it anyway.
> I don't have a "mulching door" on the fecon, so no it wasn't a single pass. Some times it does real good in a single pass, some places I ran it over 3 times.
> The slopes aren't too bad until you get a little over 1/2 way up. Then you start getting into exposed rock, then it's no fun at all. I haven't been able to make it all the way to the ridge anywhere yet on this slope, but you can't tell from the road.
> 
> Andy


 
Could have been worse Andy. . . You could have had to scrub-out that hillside by hand.


----------



## redprospector (Oct 5, 2011)

lfnh said:


> Thanks.
> From those last couple of photos the ground didn't look like it was chewed very much and the reason for the question. Did the grinder work just as well going upslope as downslope or cross slope ?


 
I think that's when you're making the best time with one of these little grinders. When you keep the cutters out of the dirt you're just grinding wood, get too deep and you're rototilling and grinding. With the single grouser shoes on the tracks the Fecon dosen't spin until I'm in the rocks.
The machine does about as well uphill as downhill. Sometimes when I'm doing the "mulching pass" (dragging the head backward) I'll chase a long stem down the hill, I just leave those and catch them on the way down. Cross slope, or side hill is a different story, since you're going sideways and down hill at the same time.  Gotta be carefull running sidehill, the other day I slid sideways on a big flat rock and hit a stump with the side of the track and wound up leaning up against a tree. That one had a little pucker factor to it.

Andy


----------



## redprospector (Oct 5, 2011)

Metals406 said:


> Could have been worse Andy. . . You could have had to scrub-out that hillside by hand.


 
Been there, done that...........Way too many times. One thing I'll say is that working this kind of ground by hand will give you bigger huevos when you crawl on a machine. 

Andy


----------



## lfnh (Oct 6, 2011)

redprospector said:


> I think that's when you're making the best time with one of these little grinders. When you keep the cutters out of the dirt you're just grinding wood, get too deep and you're rototilling and grinding. With the single grouser shoes on the tracks the Fecon dosen't spin until I'm in the rocks.
> The machine does about as well uphill as downhill. Sometimes when I'm doing the "mulching pass" (dragging the head backward) I'll chase a long stem down the hill, I just leave those and catch them on the way down. Cross slope, or side hill is a different story, since you're going sideways and down hill at the same time.  Gotta be carefull running sidehill, the other day I slid sideways on a big flat rock and hit a stump with the side of the track and wound up leaning up against a tree. That one had a little pucker factor to it.
> 
> Andy



Appreciate your take on the Fecon.
Maybe some more photos of the work when there's time ?


----------



## redprospector (Oct 7, 2011)

Here's some more I took today.
After a while they all start looking alike. 

This is where I'm going.






This is where I've been.














Andy


----------



## Turkeyslayer (Oct 7, 2011)

Nice pics, thanks for sharing


----------



## madhatte (Oct 8, 2011)

That is some nice-looking work you're doing.


----------



## Joe46 (Oct 8, 2011)

Very nice work. I noticed a leaner in the picture. Do you take them down?


----------



## redprospector (Oct 10, 2011)

Joe46 said:


> Very nice work. I noticed a leaner in the picture. Do you take them down?


 
Yep. The State Forestry doesn't require us to do anything with the dead & down, or leaners but with equipment it doesn't take that long, and it looks a lot better. They also allow us to leave up to 3 "wild life trees" per acre. That would be about 160 snags left on the 53 acres I'm doing there on the hiway, I think it's going to be a lot better with one "wild life tree" for every 2 or 3 acres. That's still a lot of snags to leave in my opinion though. I figure that in 2 or 3 years there will be enough blow downs and dead trees in there to give the bugs a place to live without me having to worry about it.

There are some jobs that you just can't afford to do anything that you don't have to, but I got this one where it's actually making a little money. On these I like to do little extras that keep me from being just another dog turd in the cantalope patch.

Andy


----------



## rodeo (Oct 11, 2011)

That's looking great. Nice work. We just got done with a job that included using a fecon like that. Good machines. The operator was grinding about 3.5 acres or so a day. Made staying ahead of him stressful now and again. He benefited by not having to make selection decisions. Speeds things up on his end significantly. No major problems with the fecon. The occasional thrown track...thank god for cum alongs.


----------



## redprospector (Oct 12, 2011)

Thanks,
I'm not getting anywhere near 3.5 acres a day on this slope, more like 1. I don't have anyone cutting ahead of me, I'm doing it all with the grinder. When we were on less steep ground that didn't have a cut bank dropping off into the hiway we were skidding the wood and I was just grinding up the top's and limbs, I was covering an acre in about 3 hours. This hill is kicking my butt.

Andy


----------



## Metals406 (Oct 12, 2011)

redprospector said:


> Thanks,
> I'm not getting anywhere near 3.5 acres a day on this slope, more like 1. I don't have anyone cutting ahead of me, I'm doing it all with the grinder. When we were on less steep ground that didn't have a cut bank dropping off into the hiway we were skidding the wood and I was just grinding up the top's and limbs, I was covering an acre in about 3 hours. This hill is kicking my butt.
> 
> Andy


 
Jameson said he'd work for Hamm's beer and a swift kick in the ass. . . Give him a call. :msp_biggrin:


----------



## slowp (Oct 12, 2011)

Metals406 said:


> Jameson said he'd work for Hamm's beer and a swift kick in the ass. . . Give him a call. :msp_biggrin:



I'm slaying a few trees for firewood, which I cut them up for. I think Hamm's and a kick is cheaper in the long run. Hire Jameson. 

We be cheap.


----------



## madhatte (Oct 12, 2011)

slowp said:


> I'm slaying a few trees for firewood, which I cut them up for.



Reminds me, I have a similar "thinning" project I need to do out near Oakville one of these days. Should probably cruise it first so I know what we're doing in there.


----------



## forestryworks (Oct 12, 2011)

Metals406 said:


> Jameson said he'd work for Hamm's beer and a swift kick in the ass. . . Give him a call. :msp_biggrin:


----------



## slowp (Oct 12, 2011)

I am just now going out to throw the saws in. I'm going to put in some hotdogs because there will be slash buring going on.

I'll have to stop and get some buns. Cutting expenses never end!:msp_smile:


----------



## madhatte (Oct 12, 2011)

Big-Leaf maple makes the best hotdog sticks. Get a branch about 10 feet long and with 5 or 6 forks and you can roast 'em half-dozen at a time. You want the extra length when cooking 'dogs over a slash pile. Some DNR guy has a pic of me in full Nomex roasting a 'dog at the end of Guard School this year. He thought it was funny. I thought it was delicious.


----------



## lfnh (Oct 12, 2011)

Okay.
Bet a pic of that would be very instructive. .


----------



## madhatte (Oct 12, 2011)

With a bit of digging, I can probably find such a thing.


----------



## slowp (Oct 12, 2011)

Ruh roh, thread drift. I do not have a picture, but in my seasonal days, we took out hotdogs to roast. The landing pile was set on fire, it was too hot to face, so we turned our backs to the pile, bent over, and roasted the hotdogs kind of backwards. Sounds kind of bad. There was a picture taken. 

We got hot buns...we wore jeans because Nomex was not required to wear for mere slash burning yet.


----------



## redprospector (Oct 12, 2011)

slowp said:


> Ruh roh, thread drift. I do not have a picture, but in my seasonal days, we took out hotdogs to roast. The landing pile was set on fire, it was too hot to face, so we turned our backs to the pile, bent over, and roasted the hotdogs kind of backwards. Sounds kind of bad. There was a picture taken.
> 
> We got hot buns...we wore jeans because Nomex was not required to wear for mere slash burning yet.


 
Thread drift??? What? Everybody's still talking about thinning, and burning, and such. You just needed a little lunch break. 
I would like to see that picture though.
Besides that, if a thread doesn't drift a little now and then there wasn't much conversation going on. It's kind of a natural progression.

Andy


----------



## redprospector (Oct 12, 2011)

Metals406 said:


> Jameson said he'd work for Hamm's beer and a swift kick in the ass. . . Give him a call. :msp_biggrin:


 
Hahaha. I talked to Jameson on my way home from Albuquerque this evening. 
Now he want's wood. He didn't say anything about the Hamm's beer but I figure it's still in the deal.
The one thing I don't want to loose in the negotiation is the swift kick in the ass part. 

Andy


----------



## forestryworks (Oct 13, 2011)

redprospector said:


> Hahaha. I talked to Jameson on my way home from Albuquerque this evening.
> Now he want's wood. He didn't say anything about the Hamm's beer but I figure it's still in the deal.
> The one thing I don't want to loose in the negotiation is the swift kick in the ass part.
> 
> Andy


 
As rusty as I am on the saw from not having much work in a while, I'm bound to do something to get a swift kick in the ass 

On a serious note, Andy, do you know who is gonna fall those big Doug-fir snags up on Coyote Ave? (I think it's coyote ave. up the hill from Spruce Cabins) I'll knock wedges if you cut


----------



## madhatte (Oct 13, 2011)

Looking thru my (thousands of) pics and so far no joy. I'll look some more later, and also ask co-workers. Somebody's bound to have something.


----------



## Metals406 (Oct 13, 2011)

madhatte said:


> Looking thru my (thousands of) pics and so far no joy. I'll look some more later, and also ask co-workers. Somebody's bound to have something.


 
Nathan, how's your strong hand?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/8EmjOVM-OZY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## redprospector (Oct 13, 2011)

forestryworks said:


> As rusty as I am on the saw from not having much work in a while, I'm bound to do something to get a swift kick in the ass
> 
> On a serious note, Andy, do you know who is gonna fall those big Doug-fir snags up on Coyote Ave? (I think it's coyote ave. up the hill from Spruce Cabins) I'll knock wedges if you cut


 
A serious note? That doesn't sound like much fun.
People are funny about their yard snags around these parts. I don't know if they'll hire someone to cut them, or if they'll leave them until they fall on their own. That's one reason I quit climbing to remove them. People would wait until the trees were rotten before they'd call anyone to do something about them. The other reason is that I'm not a spring chicken anymore, and climbing makes my knee hurt.............real bad.
I'll look into it though. If I can line one of them up I'd be happy for you to knock wedges. On second thought, I'm probably more rusty than you, so maybe I'll knock wedges for you. 

Andy


----------



## forestryworks (Oct 13, 2011)

redprospector said:


> A serious note? That doesn't sound like much fun.
> People are funny about their yard snags around these parts. I don't know if they'll hire someone to cut them, or if they'll leave them until they fall on their own. That's one reason I quit climbing to remove them. People would wait until the trees were rotten before they'd call anyone to do something about them. The other reason is that I'm not a spring chicken anymore, and climbing makes my knee hurt.............real bad.
> I'll look into it though. If I can line one of them up I'd be happy for you to knock wedges. On second thought, I'm probably more rusty than you, so maybe I'll knock wedges for you.
> 
> Andy


 
The one I was remembering seemed to be almost in the middle of the road. Surrounded by asphalt. Up by "The Cabins" office. If I remember correctly, they were marked as well.

I wonder how big of a crowd would gather? Focus, grasshopper, lol.

I'll knock wedges or saw, pretty flexible and willing to help!


----------



## Sport Faller (Oct 13, 2011)

forestryworks said:


> The one I was remembering seemed to be almost in the middle of the road. Surrounded by asphalt. Up by "The Cabins" office. If I remember correctly, they were marked as well.
> 
> I wonder how big of a crowd would gather? Focus, grasshopper, lol.
> 
> I'll knock wedges or saw, pretty flexible and *willing to help!*


 
Jameson, can you taste the sweet sweet Hamm's yet :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## forestryworks (Oct 13, 2011)

bigskyjake said:


> Jameson, can you taste the sweet sweet Hamm's yet :hmm3grin2orange:


 
Hahahaha, almost made me spew my milk! (Late breakfast this morning. Can't thin until the afternoon after the old folks volunteer group gets their stuff done).


----------

