# How do you start a logging company?



## Christian Willson (Sep 28, 2015)

I am considering a career in forestry after attending Oregon State, and I was wondering what it takes to start your own logging company. What is the process of getting contracts, and what is an approximate start up cost. Also, how many guys do you need to employ in order to make a decent and honest living. Any information is greatly appreciated! Thanks! 
Christian Willson


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## Trx250r180 (Sep 28, 2015)

I would start out working for someone to learn the ropes .


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## nk14zp (Sep 28, 2015)

Best way to become a millionaire logging 




















is to start with 5 million.


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## northmanlogging (Sep 28, 2015)

Christian Willson said:


> I am considering a career in forestry after attending Oregon State, and I was wondering what it takes to start your own logging company. What is the process of getting contracts, and what is an approximate start up cost. Also, how many guys do you need to employ in order to make a decent and honest living. Any information is greatly appreciated! Thanks!
> Christian Willson



Well first off yer my kind of crazy.

Secondly a forestry degree is better for being a Forester, though it won't hurt while logging.

On with the meat and taters part, Oregon is not Warshington so take this with a grain of salt, up here to be legal you only need a business license, and to pay your taxes, permits help on private ground. But I would suggest you get some real experience with a real logging show, spend a summer in the rigging or hold a spade for a land clearing outfit, what ever it is you need to see its ****ing hard work, if you don't love the hard work your going to hate it and hate it in a big way. For gub-a-mint work you'll need to be insured and bonded... and fer like 2,000,000 still wanna log?

As far as getting contracts it depends on whether you wan't gub-a-mint werk or private ground work, going big with DNR/BLM/FS is nearly impossible, DNR here wants you to have 2 years exp. and you need to show a profit within the last 3, FS has a boat load of paper work to dig through proving you're an American citizen have a real business and are mostly literate, among other things.

Then once you have the in on DNR or FS contracts you have to bid on them... which means having load of money to throw around as insurance, you know so the gub-a-mint gets paid regardless of whether you make money or die they don't care... much... (they want 20% down, plus a 10,000-1,000,000 bond)

Its probably easier to get in with a local mill to harvest gov. ground, but then you'll need about 500,000 in wore out equipment to compete with everyone else... Yarder, loader, processor, cat, maybe a skidder. Figure on one person per piece of equipment, plus 3-4 in the bushes for the yarder. You really don't want to know what new equipment is going to cost... oh and tack on at least 2 cutters, or a feller buncher or both, probably both. And most of these fine folks are going to be getting roughly $18-30+ an hour, plus like $20 an hour to L+I... each... So average that to $45 an hour per employee, without benifits.. and you'll want to get them benifits so add roughly $600 a month for insurance, and $3 an hour for vacation... All this before the first logs hit the landing, let alone the mill.

For private ground you can get a cat/dozer, Skidder, or an excavator along with the usual assortment of chainsaws, hang a shingle wait for the first phone call, then start killing trees... Go this route and you can make a decent living as a one man show... eventually... But your still looking at like 10,000 to 40,000 for equipment and start up costs.

Best of luck to ya, don't want to chase you off, just want you to have a realistic idea as to what you can expect. Also notice that the other companies will not appreciate the competition. Not that I ever cared what they thought...


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## Trx250r180 (Sep 29, 2015)

You forgot the weather sir


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## Christian Willson (Sep 29, 2015)

northmanlogging said:


> Well first off yer my kind of crazy.
> 
> Secondly a forestry degree is better for being a Forester, though it won't hurt while logging.
> 
> ...



Thank you for the information. I appreciate you being straight forward with me.


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## nk14zp (Sep 29, 2015)

I have made my living working in the woods most of my life and I wouldn't change a thing. So don't let this discourage you.


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## northmanlogging (Sep 29, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> You forgot the weather sir



Meh I don't pay much attention to the weather... I like when it rains or is cloudy, 30 degrees is about the perfect working temp, though anything above 70 is miserable. Dry and cold is the perfect skidder conditions, hard ground no mud, toss in a little cloud cover and I might even get home without a headache.

Don't like wind though... wind is bad in the woods, good for business, bad for timber falling. I like windy days... don't like working on windy days


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## slowp (Sep 29, 2015)

Did you work on the OSU logging crew? That would have given you a taste of what goes on. 
Did you get a forestry degree? Most OSU graduates are able to get work as foresters. That's a bit easier on the body and you may work with loggers and see what goes on.


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## Gologit (Sep 30, 2015)




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## catbuster (Oct 1, 2015)

To preface: I do some forestry work, but I'm mostly in environmental/demolition/site preparation. I also contract dozers and crews on fires. However, it doesn't mean I can't explain the economics of high-production and low production businesses. 

Northman pretty much summed it all up for you. There's a lot of paperwork for government work, and you essentially need to be productive and efficient. To be productive and efficient starting up you need to either be willing to throw a couple million on the table, or go heavily in debt. Because while 500,000 USD will get you some worn out gear, crap equipment, given even the best crew, will land you crap results. A good 70,000 lb hoe (336 Cat/350 Hitachi, etc) is going to run you $200k alone, plumbed for bucket and thumb. Oregon, for the most part, is hand-falled, yarder country. Which is also usually the hardest and most expensive type of ground to work. Skidding is a lot easier, and a lot cheaper. 

Another thing to consider is that good operators aren't on the market long. And if they are, they expect to be paid like good operators. I paid all my operators over 100k last year. My best one worked ~3750 hours and made over 160,000 dollars. With benefits, workman's comp, and payroll tax he cost me over to a quarter-million dollars to keep on. I don't want to scare you, but those are the types of numbers you're looking at to start a high-capacity firm. I have 6 operators & 1 mechanic making $35-38/hour. They usually work 3000 hours a year. Do the math. Usually my guys make more than I do per year by the time I reinvest my profits into the company.. 

On private ground? That's where I started. With a crawler loader, another guy, and a chainsaw. Most of the time you're not dealing in economies of scale-but you still have to turn a profit. Really, it's all a numbers game, and you have to find what numbers work for you. 

PM me if you have any specific questions.


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## northmanlogging (Oct 1, 2015)

The good thing about starting small is you can get the wrinkles ironed out before they get really expensive, break a winch line on a skidder and its oh well off to the rigging store.

Break a haulback, mainline or skyline and its Oh **** we just went broke or figure out how to fix it quick.


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## Gypo Logger (Oct 4, 2015)

Oh no! Not another logger! Lol.
There are several requirements if you want to be a logger.
Firstly, you need to be a self starter.
You need to eat, drink and breath the industry, in other words you need passion.
You can't be afraid of making money and you can't be afraid of being broke.

You also need to know the markets, most log buyers are looking for stupid loggers, and most loggers are looking for stupid woodlot owners.
It's a long and exacting apprenticeship, and you never stop learning.
Hard won experience can get you there.

You also can't be afraid of getting injured, but most importantly, you have to chew snooze or at least spruce sap.


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## nk14zp (Oct 13, 2015)

northmanlogging said:


> The good thing about starting small is you can get the wrinkles ironed out before they get really expensive, break a winch line on a skidder and its oh well off to the rigging store.
> 
> Break a haulback, mainline or skyline and its Oh **** we just went broke or figure out how to fix it quick.


I think the best bet is to start small and stay small or get real big. Not much room fir middle size.


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## Skeans (Oct 13, 2015)

Another option but it's not cheap is ctl thinning but you also need to understand the tree counts from in the machine. One bonus is less insurance cost, the equipment is smaller and lighter, and you'll have a smaller crew one to two guys. We run a CTL operation in NW Oregon.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


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## Westboastfaller (Oct 13, 2015)

Don't listen to them..get off this site and follow me on Twitter  j/k


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## redoakman (Oct 15, 2015)

Christian Willson said:


> I am considering a career in forestry after attending Oregon State, and I was wondering what it takes to start your own logging company. What is the process of getting contracts, and what is an approximate start up cost. Also, how many guys do you need to employ in order to make a decent and honest living. Any information is greatly appreciated! Thanks!
> Christian Willson


you dont start one end of story lol


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