# Pulling wood out of the bush, lots of quesions.



## sawinredneck (Nov 17, 2008)

So how do you pull wood to the truck or trailer?
I have a guy telling me I need to buy a fourwheeler to drag poles to the trailer then cut them up and throw them on. We have been hand carying up to now. The soild is sandy and soft. You can bury a tractor quick like if you are not careful.
I can't see where it's a very advantageous idea. Lots of hassle, unhook the trailer, unload the fourwheeler, load the trailer, hope you don't sink it, and hope the fourwheeler can pull anything over the hills rocks and sand! Then load the fourwheeler and hook back up to the trailer. I will be doing this all alone BTW. Am I being pesimistic about my expectations of the fourwheeler? 
That and they are pricey as hell!!! A lot of investment to pay off without a sure gain. I think he just wants a playtoy.

I have considered the Lewis winch, but I am not sure it's really all that practical either, and not really cheap either.

A winch on the truck isn't an option, I can easily be 100yds away from the truck, 80 acres.

A tractor would be nice, but just me, and an hour and half drive to a place you can't leave anything that isn't BOLTED DOWN won't work either. If they can't steal it, they will break it, or take of what they can so it's not usable next time!

So, ussually myself and a helper can cut and carry out two cord in three to four hours, how can I do that solo? I am so open to ideas right now!!


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## cre73 (Nov 17, 2008)

My fourwheeler has turned into my best wood cutting tool in areas I can not get my truck to. I usually cut smaller trees lets say around 12in diameter. With trees that small after felling I can drag the whole tree most times after getting it moving. On larger trees I will cut either six or ten foot pieces and drag them out, and believe me after getting a fourwheeler you will find all kinds of uses for it. One the handiest things i ever bought. One thing to keep in mind is the size and you will defiantly want fourwheel drive as an option.


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## kyle1! (Nov 17, 2008)

sawinredneck said:


> So how do you pull wood to the truck or trailer?
> I have a guy telling me I need to buy a fourwheeler to drag poles to the trailer then cut them up and throw them on. We have been hand carying up to now. The soild is sandy and soft. You can bury a tractor quick like if you are not careful.
> 
> A winch on the truck isn't an option, I can easily be 100yds away from the truck, 80 acres.
> ...



All I can picture in my mind is Arnold pushing that grinding wheel around and around in Conan the Barbarian. You are carrying 2 cords, through sand, and a distance of 100yds :jawdrop: I would think a 4wheeler with sand tires would be much easier. A much cheaper option would be a heavy duty plastic snow sled or toboggan with a rope attached. Strap the wood in, sling the rope over your shudder and start grunting.  is in order after that kind of work.

Brian


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## ShoerFast (Nov 17, 2008)

Freeze-up is a good time to get into places to soft normally. (point being, you might be able to drive right up to the wood if the ground is frozen?)

Back in the day, even before like Deekers time, water sleds would wet roads to ice them and horses would skid the logs. 

Ever find a real old huge horseshoe with real sharp calks?

Good chance they were logging in the winter:
http://www.fs.fed.us/r4/ashley/heritage/histories/images/cmr-pit06-FSM002_horseshoe.jpg


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## Dok (Nov 17, 2008)

Here is a pic of my trailer. The four tires are on a bogey and work well off-road. It takes six trips to haul a cord, but I am always going up hill and don't like stressing the equipment. The quad is a four wheel drive Arctic Cat 500. For what you are describing I think a quad will be the best. The tires float rather than dig into the soft stuff. 
Dok


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## sawinredneck (Nov 17, 2008)

It's sandy soil, think Missouri or Oklahoma, grass and scurb brush on top, not "sand" as you are thinking of it. It's soft, and when wet, you are done!!

Shoe, with the inclimant weather we have been having here in KS frozen ground hasn't happened very often, and when it does you really don't want to be 90 miles away from where you ned to be!! Like the time I drov back in an ice storm, or the time I drove home on 3/4" of sleet!!

That's the key to all of this, 90 miles there, 90 miles back!


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## Mike Van (Nov 17, 2008)

No easy route, you're either going to be spending some $$$$ or working like a mule - Tractor & 3 pt. hitch winch is the way I go, but I wouldn't leave it anywhere either. Only takes one idiot & you've got four flats & a hole in the radiator. Especially if they hate tree cutters.


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## Dok (Nov 17, 2008)

If it is that soft I just don't know??? My quad will get further than the 4WD tractor in the mud. I have a trailer for the quads and put the wood in the pickup bed. I have a crew cab, so me, my wife, two sons and dog, two or three saws in the back and a trailer with my quad and a small one for the kids. 

Oh, the quad has a winch, which is handy to move logs around. It will also help un-stick the quad, but I haven't had that problem yet.

If you are dealing with logs I guess you could use an arch and skid them next to the truck and block the wood there?

Dok


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## bigjake (Nov 17, 2008)

we use a kawasaki mule and a quad its great for the limbs and brush. it all
sticks together and we drag it were we want.


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## sawinredneck (Nov 17, 2008)

Mike Van said:


> No easy route, you're either going to be spending some $$$$ or working like a mule - Tractor & 3 pt. hitch winch is the way I go, but I wouldn't leave it anywhere either. Only takes one idiot & you've got four flats & a hole in the radiator. Especially if they hate tree cutters.



No hate, just a HUGE drug problem out in that area, they are looking for easy money. No money? they get pissed and destroy it!



Dok said:


> If it is that soft I just don't know??? My quad will get further than the 4WD tractor in the mud. I have a trailer for the quads and put the wood in the pickup bed. I have a crew cab, so me, my wife, two sons and dog, two or three saws in the back and a trailer with my quad and a small one for the kids.
> 
> Oh, the quad has a winch, which is handy to move logs around. It will also help un-stick the quad, but I haven't had that problem yet.
> 
> ...



Neat ideas Dok, but I have only enough room for one or the other. The trailer is 16'x80" and DEVOTED to wood! After a day of cutting and loading, I don't think I am oing to be to interesed in picking up a logarch or trailer to load ontop of my wood laden trailer!

I have heard of guys unable to pull a moose with the winch, so I have to wonder how well they really work?

I can drag an eight inch Oak by myself already. I am after production, I'd like to drag four of them, or sections of the two footers I happen on. I am in it for the money, not for fun, I want to cut and go home as fast as I can!


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## coog (Nov 17, 2008)

I have both a quad and a 4wd tractor, and think I am cutting just south of where you are.The tractor is great, but the Arctic Cat with winch and log chain can drag big logs right to your truck.You have to really try to get one stuck.I think they are great tools.I'd like to try that logging arch behind it.


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## sawinredneck (Nov 17, 2008)

coog said:


> I have both a quad and a 4wd tractor, and think I am cutting just south of where you are.The tractor is great, but the Arctic Cat with winch and log chain can drag big logs right to your truck.You have to really try to get one stuck.I think they are great tools.I'd like to try that logging arch behind it.



I am cutting just south of Toronto, a few miles straight south of Coyville. Fredonia is the closest "big town".


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## 04ultra (Nov 17, 2008)

*Andy ......Just getter done!!!!*


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## sawinredneck (Nov 17, 2008)

04ultra said:


> *Andy ......Just getter done!!!!*



Thats what I have ben doing, but even I am not man enough to carry out two cord!

And BTW :censored: Lance!!!!


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## coog (Nov 17, 2008)

sawinredneck said:


> I am cutting just south of Toronto, a few miles straight south of Coyville. Fredonia is the closest "big town".



Yep.I am cutting south of Sedan in Chautauqua County.


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## Dok (Nov 17, 2008)

Do what I do, cut in the muddy places before it gets muddy. Later in the year cut where it isn't muddy. I cut at 7500' through Sept, maybe early Oct. After that it's 2500' and oak. 

Edit- Oh yeah, Kansas! Doh! I guess it's all bottom land huh?
Dok


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## gunnar (Nov 17, 2008)

cre73 and coog,

How do you guys haul the logs with your quads? Using chains and/or cable? what do you attach them to on your atv and how? It would be great if you could post some pics of your exact set-ups!

thanks.......


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## sawinredneck (Nov 17, 2008)

Dok said:


> Do what I do, cut in the muddy places before it gets muddy. Later in the year cut where it isn't muddy. I cut at 7500' through Sept, maybe early Oct. After that it's 2500' and oak.
> 
> Edit- Oh yeah, Kansas! Doh! I guess it's all bottom land huh?
> Dok



Add to that all the natural springs and the fact that if you go down more than two foot in most places you hit solid rock (sandstone) you can kinda get the idea!!
coog knows exactly what I am talking about! It rains, you better get moving FAST!! But it's dry as a bone three days latter!
The sandy soil is my biggest reservation, you can't ride a motorcycle out there, it just sinks!


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## MR4WD (Nov 17, 2008)

300 yards is nothing for a winch. I'd buy a warn 8274-50; They're more powerful, tougher and faster than other winches in it's class. Cheaper than a quad. Buy a couple hundred feet of extra cable in probably 75 or 100' lengths... 

Run out your 100' of winch, and add two extra lengths. Reel in 100', take out a length of cable, pull out your winch and start over. This sucks, but it's better than carrying out wood 100 yards 18" at a time.

I mean that's what I do if I don't want to bring my quad. I have the most powerful quad currently produced and it still won't out pull an 8000 pound winch.


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## 04ultra (Nov 17, 2008)

sawinredneck said:


> And BTW :censored: Lance!!!!







*Why does that not surprise me.........*


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## iowawoodcutter (Nov 17, 2008)

Why would you want to pull your wood OUT of the bush? I try to keep my wood in the bush as much as possible.


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## cjcocn (Nov 17, 2008)

sawinredneck said:


> ... I have heard of guys unable to pull a moose with the winch, so I have to wonder how well they really work?
> 
> I can drag an eight inch Oak by myself already. I am after production, I'd like to drag four of them, or sections of the two footers I happen on. I am in it for the money, not for fun, I want to cut and go home as fast as I can!



I live in the muskeg and my Polaris Sportsman 500 can drag a moose out of the bush like it isn't even there. No winch required, just rope it to the quad hitch and go. I had to cross 2 creeks to get to the moose and a truck or tractor not only wouldn't make it across the creeks, but would have sunk in the mud before and after the creeks. The quad walked through without a problem.

On one occasion I took my quad to haul in a load of birch. I also had my 16' trailer with me. If you can load them from the ground to the trailer, then set up your ramps to drive the quad off the truck onto the trailer and then onto the ground. Use your quad to pull your logs into a pile about 12 or so feet behind the trailer, drive the quad back up the trailer then onto the truck. Then back the trailer up to the pile of wood and start loading.

The biggest of the birch was probably only 15" - 16" so I just towed them and loaded them in 16' lengths. I couple of times I hauled 2 logs at a time with the quad and it didn't notice the extra log.

If you buy a 4x4 quad and upgrade the tires before you leave the shop (to a more aggressive tread with thicker sidewalls) then you'll be happy with what it will do for you.

HTH


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## sawinredneck (Nov 17, 2008)

MR4WD said:


> 300 yards is nothing for a winch. I'd buy a warn 8274-50; They're more powerful, tougher and faster than other winches in it's class. Cheaper than a quad. Buy a couple hundred feet of extra cable in probably 75 or 100' lengths...
> 
> Run out your 100' of winch, and add two extra lengths. Reel in 100', take out a length of cable, pull out your winch and start over. This sucks, but it's better than carrying out wood 100 yards 18" at a time.
> 
> I mean that's what I do if I don't want to bring my quad. I have the most powerful quad currently produced and it still won't out pull an 8000 pound winch.



All things I have considered. I can get by a lot cheaper and easier with bull rope than cable. But this is woods and I have a 16' trailer on the back and am doing good to get in close most times, much less have a semi-straight shot on anything. Also most trees are small so it takes quite a few of them to fill the trailer, lots of this way and that way running around finding wood.
And unwinding a winch isn't much fun and a bit time consuming, then doing it three times per load......
I would do better with 600' of bull rope and a capstan winch!
I get the idea, and apreciate the input, but this is where a mule (the animal) would rule!


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## Highclimber OR (Nov 17, 2008)

Sounds like a good hand truck with bigger tires at least, that's what I use and it seems to save the back, but a tailgate hoist works great in that situation. I like it because you can carry 3-4 blocks on the average where as it would normally would be one. Would that help?


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## sawinredneck (Nov 17, 2008)

Highclimber OR said:


> Sounds like a good hand truck with bigger tires at least, that's what I use and it seems to save the back, but a tailgate hoist works great in that situation. I like it because you can carry 3-4 blocks on the average where as it would normally would be one. Would that help?



I have actually, and looked at them with interest!! The ground is too rough for a wheelbarrow, tried it, do these work better?


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## Mike Van (Nov 17, 2008)

You'd need two guys to make this work - But, how about out where the trucks on good ground, hang a snatchblock up somewhere, run 3 or 4 hundred ft of cable or bullrope back to the woods, have a good 'hitch' ready to go with a choker on it & drive away ? When the hitch gets to the snatch, the guy unhooks, walks the line back to the woods as the driver backs up? Gotta beat the lugging by hand? No?


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## savageactor7 (Nov 17, 2008)

sawinredneck in your current situation a simple heavy duty wheel barrow would be the best productivity booster. I've been in your situation and sometimes less is more.

"ground to rough for a WB"... that just can't be right.


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## sawinredneck (Nov 17, 2008)

Mike Van said:


> You'd need two guys to make this work - But, how about out where the trucks on good ground, hang a snatchblock up somewhere, run 3 or 4 hundred ft of cable or bullrope back to the woods, have a good 'hitch' ready to go with a choker on it & drive away ? When the hitch gets to the snatch, the guy unhooks, walks the line back to the woods as the driver backs up? Gotta beat the lugging by hand? No?



Lost all my help (I can't blame them!!), it's all me! NO HELPER!! Thus the point of this thread!


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## Mike Van (Nov 17, 2008)

You probably worked 'em to death!  You gotta get 'mechanized'


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## mattmc2003 (Nov 17, 2008)

If you can get a small tractor or four wheeler in, why not a small truck. Get an old beat up 4wd ford ranger or s10 or something of the sort. You can haul or drag more than any 4wheeler, and you could surely find other uses for it too. the 4wheeler sure seems like a lot of trouble. Get a good trailer to go behind the truck. Load the truck and bring it out and put it on the trailer. then go load the truck again, come out and hook up to the trailer, and go home.


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## gink595 (Nov 17, 2008)

I've never used a 4 wheeler to cut wood with, seems like it would be slooooowwwww! I like doing a lot in a little time, the faster the better 
My setup consists of a 2 man crew, the boy running the machine and me running the saw, for only being 3 he can operate the controls:greenchainsaw:


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## sawinredneck (Nov 17, 2008)

mattmc2003 said:


> If you can get a small tractor or four wheeler in, why not a small truck. Get an old beat up 4wd ford ranger or s10 or something of the sort. You can haul or drag more than any 4wheeler, and you could surely find other uses for it too. the 4wheeler sure seems like a lot of trouble. Get a good trailer to go behind the truck. Load the truck and bring it out and put it on the trailer. then go load the truck again, come out and hook up to the trailer, and go home.




Put two cords of Oak on a 16'x80" double axle trailer and drive it 90 miles home. Then we can talk!!
I used to do it with an F-150 V-6 five speed. NEVER AGAIN!!
I am trying to get to where I can do by myself what myself and a helper did in the same time.


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## sawinredneck (Nov 17, 2008)

gink595 said:


> I've never used a 4 wheeler to cut wood with, seems like it would be slooooowwwww! I like doing a lot in a little time, the faster the better
> My setup consists of a 2 man crew, the boy running the machine and me running the saw, for only being 3 he can operate the controls:greenchainsaw:



You guys are killing me!!!

ONE truck, ONE trailer, ONE person (ME), TWO cords of wood with and F-150.
The Bobcat don't fit in the bed so well does it?


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## ericjeeper (Nov 17, 2008)

*Is the local McDonalds hiring?*

This seems like waaaaaay to much work to gather firewood to sell..
I am pretty fortunate to live on the family farm with 100 acres. and 60 of it just timbered.Lots of tops.. I cheat a little I bought a small bulldozer to drag the trees to a couple of different landings.
I have a 4x4 tractor It does ok.. But it darned sure ain't no dozer..
I just can not grasp how much a 4x4 quad could pull.weighing in at under 1200 pounds with rider.My tractor weighs at least 6k and has brand new tires on it with fluid in the rears..And some of the tops it will not pull puzzle me.
Now the dozer on the other hand will either pull it or come darned close to pulling the 1/2 inch chokers in two.
My buddies dozer will pull a brand spanking new cat choker in two before it will slip a track.. I have seen it happen first hand.. yes it was my new cat choker to boot.


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## mattmc2003 (Nov 17, 2008)

Well you still gotta haul a four wheeler too. I didn't realize it was 90 miles to get firewood. All those miles and hauling equipment sure is a lot of expense for firewood.


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## gink595 (Nov 17, 2008)

sawinredneck said:


> You guys are killing me!!!
> 
> ONE truck, ONE trailer, ONE person (ME), TWO cords of wood with and F-150.
> The Bobcat don't fit in the bed so well does it?



Well your method don't sound very fun!

Well see if your already haulin a trailer, you can haul the Bobcat back and forth, you'll have all that empty bed space for wood. And just being a one man crew you shouldn't have to pick up much wood if you do it right.


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## mattmc2003 (Nov 17, 2008)

Bobcat behind a v6 f150? If anything, get a small 4wd tractor...very small. Like a yanmar or something. Maybe not even 4wd. Save some space on the trailer for it and load the bed to. But i'm betting the double axle trailer loaded with wood is more than enough for the truck anyway.


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## gink595 (Nov 17, 2008)

sawinredneck said:


> Put two cords of Oak on a 16'x80" double axle trailer and drive it 90 miles home. Then we can talk!!
> I used to do it with an F-150 V-6 five speed. NEVER AGAIN!!
> I am trying to get to where I can do by myself what myself and a helper did in the same time.



90 miles, WTF why so far, I must have missed some of this conversation somewhere. Yeah I wouldn't haul equipment unless you could take a sh*t load home in one trip. But for 2 cord nahh, it wouldn't be worth haulin equip.


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## gink595 (Nov 17, 2008)

mattmc2003 said:


> Bobcat behind a v6 f150? If anything, get a small 4wd tractor...very small. Like a yanmar or something. Maybe not even 4wd. Save some space on the trailer for it and load the bed to. But i'm betting the double axle trailer loaded with wood is more than enough for the truck anyway.



Hmmm, I never seen or heard of a V6 in a F150, in the Rangers but never the 150's sure it ain't a 300 inline 6?


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## hanniedog (Nov 17, 2008)

Gink595 you better be kidding about your boy running that skid loader. If not it is an accident just waiting to happen. A child of that age has no business running any type of machinery.


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## mattmc2003 (Nov 17, 2008)

gink595 said:


> Hmmm, I never seen or heard of a V6 in a F150, in the Rangers but never the 150's sure it ain't a 300 inline 6?



4.2 v6 in 96 and newer. I think 96. Whenever the 4.6 v8 took over the 4.2 v6 did too.


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## gink595 (Nov 17, 2008)

hanniedog said:


> Gink595 you better be kidding about your boy running that skid loader.



No not at all, he can run it. He can't run the foot pedals, too little! Don't get me wrong he rides with me when I'm doing little things in it. He stands on the tunnel and steers it and runs the grapple, but he can't sit in the seat and operate by himself yet. Someday but not till he's ready. I know what your saying, I really do understand the concern, but at the same time I have pics of when I was a kid running a backhoe. Trust me I keep a close eye on the boy and I want him to learn how to do things, my dad had me braze welding when I was in 6th grade it's a skill I still use today.


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## gink595 (Nov 17, 2008)

mattmc2003 said:


> 4.2 v6 in 96 and newer. I think 96. Whenever the 4.6 v8 took over the 4.2 v6 did too.



Okay I'm thinking of the older trucks, I still didn't know that the newer ones had V6's in them. My lesson for the day!


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## mattmc2003 (Nov 17, 2008)

gink595 said:


> No not at all, he can run it. He can't run the foot pedals, too little! Don't get me wrong he rides with me when I'm doing little things in it. He stands on the tunnel and steers it and runs the grapple, but he can't sit in the seat and operate by himself yet. Someday but not till he's ready. I know what your saying, I really do understand the concern, but at the same time I have pics of when I was a kid running a backhoe. Trust me I keep a close eye on the boy and I want him to learn how to do things, my dad had me braze welding when I was in 6th grade it's a skill I still use today.



I can remember my first time driving a boat. Five or six years i think. Stern drive 25hp johnson on a john boat. As fas as i know my dad, or grandpa never drove again after that, unless i fell asleep or something. Same with the tractor. I can't even remember when i started plowing and bushhogging. I never went anywhere rough that young though. 35 ferguson, then 2000 ford. And on and on....


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## KsWoodsMan (Nov 17, 2008)

sawinredneck, I don't know if this will help you much.

When I was a kid Dad had an old PU that we used to put hay up with. When we got to the barn it had to all go in the loft. There was a pully above the loft opening and a rope through it. 

Dad would block 3 wheels on the truck, jack up one of the drive tires, pull it off and put on just a rim/wheel with no tire on it. He'd start the truck and put it in compound, at an idle, loop the rope around it once or twice, hook a bale and pull the rope. It took no effort at all to pull the rope. All he was doing was taking in the slack and the truck was doing the work. Showed me how and put me to work feeding hay up to him in the loft. 

I dont know if this would work for you but a few hundred feet of good rope seems like it might be cheaper than a 4-wheeler or winch. A logging cone would help keep the butt ends from hanging up on stuff as you pull it out.

It isn't OSHA approved to do it this way and I would recommend a kill switch close to where you are going to be doing the pulling from.

I can see driving that far to cut on your own land but there HAS to be something closer than 90 miles.

One of the township here welcomed me to cut back the right of ways on county roads they were responsible for. Everything between the fence rows along the roads were fair game just for asking. Mostly hackberry some locust or hedge and scrub but anything firewood sized goes on the truck. One of the township officers offered me 50 acres of Oak if I would pile the brush where I cut it so it could be burned. AFAIK it is still open I haven't run out of other places yet. Late next summer I hope to be that far along that I can move on from fence rows and into timber. 5,000 8"- 12" oaks will go quickly without having to handle the brush so much.


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## sawinredneck (Nov 17, 2008)

gink595 said:


> Well your method don't sound very fun!
> 
> Well see if your already haulin a trailer, you can haul the Bobcat back and forth, you'll have all that empty bed space for wood. And just being a one man crew you shouldn't have to pick up much wood if you do it right.



My method sucks!!! But just for a pickup load, like I did Sunday, I wont take the trailer. Two hours later I am on the road home!



mattmc2003 said:


> Bobcat behind a v6 f150? If anything, get a small 4wd tractor...very small. Like a yanmar or something. Maybe not even 4wd. Save some space on the trailer for it and load the bed to. But i'm betting the double axle trailer loaded with wood is more than enough for the truck anyway.



The V-6 was my old truck, and it would pull just fine, '97 F-150 with the 4.2l. I didn't care for the hills, but after a set of 3.73's and a locker life was much better, until I spun a rod!
New truck has a 5.4l V8, 3.73's and a locker, night and day!!




gink595 said:


> 90 miles, WTF why so far, I must have missed some of this conversation somewhere. Yeah I wouldn't haul equipment unless you could take a sh*t load home in one trip. But for 2 cord nahh, it wouldn't be worth haulin equip.



That is where the Oak is in KS, and at $125 a face, it's worth a little work!


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## sawinredneck (Nov 17, 2008)

KsWoodsMan said:


> sawinredneck, I don't know if this will help you much.
> 
> When I was a kid Dad had an old PU that we used to put hay up with. When we got to the barn it had to all go in the loft. There was a pully above the loft opening and a rope through it.
> 
> ...




Sounds like a capstan winch. Auto, no compound and I don't think the '04 will care much for kill switches!!

I am right outside of Wichita, Oak has gone through the roof this year!! I have a small place outside of Leon to cut, but the ravin and creek, and steep drop offs around the rivers meeting, I am not to excited!!

I have 80 acres on out, the Fredonia area, as long as it isn't muddy, game on. Had a tornadoe four years ago, fire three and another last winter. Lots of clean up, and it's prety easy cutting, just getting it out sucks!!!


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## Metals406 (Nov 17, 2008)

At 125 bucks a face... How much money you got sitting on that 80 acres? If you got 15,000.00 in prospective firewood sitting out there, I suggest this:

My buddy Doug has a fab shop, and made a shipping container into a cabin for a guy. All steel man door, all steel window shutters... Made it snug as could be. The customers only stipulation was that, "It keeps out the Grizzly bears, and hippies."

My point being, make yourself a shipping container cabin/storage shed--and store equipment in it while you're gone. The first half could fit a 4x4 quad, and other misc firewooding equipment, and the back half could be living quarters-- for when you want to spend a weekend cutting.


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## KsWoodsMan (Nov 17, 2008)

I never heard it called a capstan winch before. With a locker and auto this method won't work well for you.

Sounds like the same distance from your place to Ark City or Leon, so not much to gain there unless you run out.

There's not much for trees out west so a well funded township can keep up with the right-of-ways.

A small gas powered capstan winch probably wouldnt help much either.


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## sawinredneck (Nov 17, 2008)

Metals406 said:


> At 125 bucks a face... How much money you got sitting on that 80 acres? If you got 15,000.00 in prospective firewood sitting out there, I suggest this:
> 
> My buddy Doug has a fab shop, and made a shipping container into a cabin for a guy. All steel man door, all steel window shutters... Made it snug as could be. The customers only stipulation was that, "It keeps out the Grizzly bears, and hippies."
> 
> My point being, make yourself a shipping container cabin/storage shed--and store equipment in it while you're gone. The first half could fit a 4x4 quad, and other misc firewooding equipment, and the back half could be living quarters-- for when you want to spend a weekend cutting.



VERY GOOD IDEA BUT, how bullet proof would it be? An illeagal hunter with a high powered rifle could tear a bunch of stuff up quick like!!
We had a 6' long wood cookstove out there in the house, they had managed to move it half way to the door, not sure why they stopped there. Two of us stayed behind, armed, while my mom went back to get enough help so we could load it up and bring it home before it got ripped off! (I cannot stress HEAVY enough!!)
I won't set foot on the place unarmed, seriously. First thing I do is strap on a pistol, then I unlock the gate and drive in.


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## Metals406 (Nov 17, 2008)

sawinredneck said:


> VERY GOOD IDEA BUT, how bullet proof would it be? An illeagal hunter with a high powered rifle could tear a bunch of stuff up quick like!!
> We had a 6' long wood cookstove out there in the house, they had managed to move it half way to the door, not sure why they stopped there. Two of us stayed behind, armed, while my mom went back to get enough help so we could load it up and bring it home before it got ripped off! (I cannot stress HEAVY enough!!)
> I won't set foot on the place unarmed, seriously. First thing I do is strap on a pistol, then I unlock the gate and drive in.



It would be as bulletproof as you wanted to make it... But sheesh, you'd have to line it with 1/2" A36 to stop a 300 Mag.

As far as them getting in to it... Fat chance! If you build it like the one Doug made--there ain't no way in hell anyone could break in... Without an oxy/acetylene set. You could wire in a low voltage motion alarm system, that was high db... Make that sucker loud enough, that they won't want to stick around to see who hears it going off. The low voltage could be maintained with a small solar panel on the top of the cabin, out of site of some loser that is trespassing.


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## Metals406 (Nov 17, 2008)

BTW, what part of Kansas is this property in?? East Compton? LOL


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## sesmith (Nov 17, 2008)

What works for me is pretty simple. I cut, buck and split the firewood where it falls. In my case, I have no problem with theft and can cut in the winter and split in the winter or sometime later in the spring. I get my truck in as close as I can to the wood, and haul the split wood to the truck with a DR power wagon. I cut around 6-7 full cords a year this way. If you're towing a trailer for the wood, you can easily fit a DR power wagon in the truck bed . It works better than I ever expected hauling wood on rough terrain.


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## sawinredneck (Nov 17, 2008)

Metals406 said:


> It would be as bulletproof as you wanted to make it... But sheesh, you'd have to line it with 1/2" A36 to stop a 300 Mag.
> 
> As far as them getting in to it... Fat chance! If you build it like the one Doug made--there ain't no way in hell anyone could break in... Without an oxy/acetylene set. You could wire in a low voltage motion alarm system, that was high db... Make that sucker loud enough, that they won't want to stick around to see who hears it going off. The low voltage could be maintained with a small solar panel on the top of the cabin, out of site of some loser that is trespassing.




Nearest neighbor is over a mile away, that siren could be as loud as you want an no one would care!!!
There is a clearing, I could have a rock band on one end, and a country band on the other. You could stand in the middle and not hear either!! 



Metals406 said:


> BTW, what part of Kansas is this property in?? East Compton? LOL



BFE!!!!! Seriously, if people aren't there daily they have bars on the windows and doors!! I'll have to get some pics tomorow, you would never think it out there, but it's bad!!


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## Metals406 (Nov 17, 2008)

sawinredneck said:


> Nearest neighbor is over a mile away, that siren could be as loud as you want an no one would care!!!
> There is a clearing, I could have a rock band on one end, and a country band on the other. You could stand in the middle and not hear either!!
> 
> 
> ...



The alarm wouldn't be to alert anyone accept the intruder. I guarantee, that if I'm poking around in the woods, and I think I'm being all sneaky--and I'm looking for some freebies... and I walk up on this shipping container, and a ALARM STARTS BLARING LIKE A SON BI*CH!! I'mah runnin', and not lookin' back.

You could post obnoxious signs around too... "This property guarded by Satan himself"... "Is my gun loaded? Stick around and find out."... "If you're found here tonight, you'll be found here in the morning."... "Did you know I can see over 1000 yards with my rifle scope?"... "My corn is fertilized with trespassers"... I think you get the point.


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## mranum (Nov 17, 2008)

A nice off road machine thats light and will drag like no ones business is the Polaris Big Boss 6x6. We've had one since '97 and never fails to impress. 2 straight axle drive axles mean full time 4wd on the back and in real nasty conditions kick in the front axle and just go.


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## KsWoodsMan (Nov 18, 2008)

The sort that are in his woods being all sneaky couldn't give a :censored: if it was going off. If it bothered them they would bust it knowing the owner wasn't going to be back for at least 5 days.

To them the owner is the trespasser or anyone between them and what they came for.


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## Metals406 (Nov 18, 2008)

KsWoodsMan said:


> The sort that are in his woods being all sneaky couldn't give a :censored: if it was going off. If it bothered them they would bust it knowing the owner wasn't going to be back for at least 5 days.
> 
> To them the owner is the trespasser or anyone between them and what they came for.




Man, I gotta say... And this is nothing against you good Kansas Folks... Is Kansas overflowing with criminals? A really good buddy of mine is originally from Wichita... Now I can see why he left.

I'm not saying we are crime-free here... But most are afraid of getting a bullet for such behavior.


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## Mike Van (Nov 18, 2008)

Sounds like you need Wyatt Earp to clean up again............


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## coog (Nov 18, 2008)

Metals406 said:


> Man, I gotta say... And this is nothing against you good Kansas Folks... Is Kansas overflowing with criminals? A really good buddy of mine is originally from Wichita... Now I can see why he left.
> 
> I'm not saying we are crime-free here... But most are afraid of getting a bullet for such behavior.



I think that meth has changed rural areas everywhere, Kansas included.My neighbor is a Sheriff's deputy.He told me that he sent his boy to Texas to work construction as soon as he graduated.He said that within five years most of his classmates would be in prison or dead.I'm a weekend guy down there, and everything looks perfect sweetness and light.The cows outnumber the people by a huge margin.I strap on for the coyotes...

Watch that speed trap in Leon, now.


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## kevin j (Nov 18, 2008)

1. DR power wagon

2. 'Muck Truck' that is here on CL at about $2500. Both of these are small powered hopper type boxes on wheels. 

3. There was (is?) a track type machine specfically for the forest industry. About 5 hp, has two tracks, with a log arch type hoist point to pick up log end. The operator drives with a T bar type of handle, sort of like a warehouse pallet jack handle. Going down hill is the limiting factor. Also tiny, maybe 500 lbs or less, but able to drag maybe 1000 lbs. I have seen it in Diesel Progress trade magazine several times. Might have been Bombardier, but I thought it was from Norway/FInland maybe. SawTroll ever seen this thing? This would be my first choice.

4. Dingo walk behind skid steer. Dingo was made in Austr, now Toro owns the design. Under 30 inches wide and tiny.

5. Make yur own powered something from an old snowblower (do you have those down there?) with either tracks or wheels.

All small, but fit on the trailer and haul big wheelbarrow worth of wood at a time. You did say you just hauled a load back without the trailer, so taking any equipment on the trailer and giving up some space is not a deal breaker. STill way more productivity and wood hauled on pickup plus half a trailer than just in the pickup.

Anyway you go, it will require some tradeoffs and cost some investment. Else, just continued back work doesn't sound too fun.
I never cut alone for safety reasons, or drive to a site with only one vehicle because I will get stuck or stranded, or want to cutin an area where I need to have Mr. Colt in the chaps. Hats off to your efforts.


k


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## KsWoodsMan (Nov 18, 2008)

Metals406 said:


> Man, I gotta say... And this is nothing against you good Kansas Folks... Is Kansas overflowing with criminals? A really good buddy of mine is originally from Wichita... Now I can see why he left.
> 
> I'm not saying we are crime-free here... But most are afraid of getting a bullet for such behavior.





Mike Van said:


> Sounds like you need Wyatt Earp to clean up again............




No, it isn't overflowing with them. I sleep soundly with the door unlocked in town. All it takes is a few "ne'er do wells" to rustle cattle , haul off anything of value or to just be up to no good in general that will keep you on guard when you only go on your place once or week or less. You dont know what element you are going to run into. The kind that shouldn't be missed.

They are the sort of low-life that an alarm in the middle of nowhere means nothing to them. Putting up a sign that says "Trespassers will be Violated. Survivors will be SHOT." only serves to antagonize them. It means you know they are there but not much you can do if not there to back it up.


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## sawinredneck (Nov 18, 2008)

KsWoodsMan said:


> No, it isn't overflowing with them. I sleep soundly with the door unlocked in town. All it takes is a few "ne'er do wells" to rustle cattle , haul off anything of value or to just be up to no good in general that will keep you on guard when you only go on your place once or week or less. You dont know what element you are going to run into. The kind that shouldn't be missed.
> 
> They are the sort of low-life that an alarm in the middle of nowhere means nothing to them. Putting up a sign that says "Trespassers will be Violated. Survivors will be SHOT." only serves to antagonize them. It means you know they are there but not much you can do if not there to back it up.



You seem to know my vermin quite well!!! For all I know, no more often than I can get out there, I may end up walking up on a home made meth lab, or end up in someones pot growing field. You just can't make the time to be out there every three days like you need to!

Now the poster asking about trailer space, NO!!! The truck bed is the only space for hauling tools and equipment!! The trailer is for wood ONLY!!!

Well I'm off, try a run with the trailer by myself.


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## aandabooks (Nov 18, 2008)

I've got a Suzuki Eiger 400 4x4 and since I bought it, I've been amazed at the load it will pull. The trick is to get the log moving. One of those ATV log arches would be really nice for lifting the front of the log but the budget doesn't currently allow for it. 

I bought my quad primarily to get into cut when the truck won't make it. I cut in plowed fields and when it gets soupy the truck doesn't stand a chance. I have yet to get the quad stuck though. The truck is an '07 Silverado 4x4.

I've pulled 16" elm cut to 10' lenghts uphill out of the ravine before. Log chain hooked to the hitch. Get it moving and don't stop. I also have a 2500# winch on it. The problem there is it will pull the quad to the log before it pulls the log up. Generally have to chain the quad to a tree or the truck to use the winch on anything too heavy. It sure does raise and lower the snowplow slick though.


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## KsWoodsMan (Nov 18, 2008)

I know OF them well enough. They like the hilly rough country that is seldom traveled. Their kind sets up shop in a vacant (abandoned) house and feels right at home. They do the same on unattended rural property. Vermin is about right. Their kind breeds more of the same and soon an area isn't fit for use because of them.

Don't be a boy scout when out there but do be prepared.

Have a great time working your place for the firewood. Thats where I would rather be going but the job first.


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## woodbooga (Nov 18, 2008)

I've only skimmed this thread, so I apologize if this is redundant or not helpful.

I don't have the means to afford much anything that would make hauling from site to pickup easier - and one of my main cutting sites was a patch of recently logged woods. Lots of red oak, maple, and black birch tops next to skid tracks that ran through some borgerline wetlands. I could get my Ranger about 100 feet to the tops.

I brought with me several 8x2 planks and made a path through the muck. Enough so I could wheelbarrow my rounds to the truck. It was a lot of work and time consuming but worth it.

Fortunately, the site is on my commute route so I left the barrow there and picked it up on my way home one day.

Like Shoer suggested early on, I plan to go back after the ground freezes and I can back right in. But this strategy don't work in March/April when we're in the grip of the dredded "Mud Season."


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## Mike Van (Nov 18, 2008)

kevin j said:


> 3. There was (is?) a track type machine specfically for the forest industry. About 5 hp, has two tracks, with a log arch type hoist point to pick up log end. The operator drives with a T bar type of handle, sort of like a warehouse pallet jack handle. Going down hill is the limiting factor. Also tiny, maybe 500 lbs or less, but able to drag maybe 1000 lbs. I have seen it in Diesel Progress trade magazine several times. Might have been Bombardier, but I thought it was from Norway/FInland maybe. SawTroll ever seen this thing? This would be my first choice.
> k



Iron Mule I believe it's called - Made in one of the Scandanavian countries. Kind of pricey If I remember.


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## sawinredneck (Nov 18, 2008)

coog said:


> I think that meth has changed rural areas everywhere, Kansas included.My neighbor is a Sheriff's deputy.He told me that he sent his boy to Texas to work construction as soon as he graduated.He said that within five years most of his classmates would be in prison or dead.I'm a weekend guy down there, and everything looks perfect sweetness and light.The cows outnumber the people by a huge margin.I strap on for the coyotes...
> 
> Watch that speed trap in Leon, now.



Yeah, the "drug culture" ain't like it was for sure!!!

Those SOB's in Leon, MAN!!!! Came back today and they have TWO unmarked BLACK Tahoe's with the mini light bar sitting at the cemetary!!

I got out there, decent weather, pulled into the field drive and hoofed it. WAY to muddy to do anything!!! I had to back out 200 yds. through an overgrown "driveway" onto a road with truck and trailer. Even then I damn near got stuck!!! Had to find some brush to put under the tires for traction to keep moving.
Scared up some NICE Deer, had a Doe maybe 40' in front of me, probably 275#'s, big for this area, and seen a Buck, he couldn't have cared if was around or not, crazy!! Six pointer, pushing 235#'s!! Nice deer for the area!!! If only it was rifle season, if only I had a tag with me, if only I didn't just have my 10mm (.357mag is the "shortest cartridge" you can use in KS) if only...............
I came home with nothing but some pics.


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## sawinredneck (Nov 18, 2008)

First pic is a Township building not far from where I cut, look close and you can see the bars on the windows and doors. The rest are the woods I work in, the laid over tree is 32" to give you an idea. Camera phones suck, sorry!


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## MR4WD (Nov 18, 2008)

You've rejected all of the ideas offered. Why don't you tell US the best way to yard wood out of the forest.


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## KsWoodsMan (Nov 18, 2008)

sawinredneck said:


> Yeah, the "drug culture" ain't like it was for sure!!!
> 
> Those SOB's in Leon, MAN!!!! *Came back today and they have TWO unmarked BLACK Tahoe's with the mini light bar* sitting at the cemetary!!
> 
> ...



Like you cant spot those from a mile away. They would do a lot better if they drove something that looked a bit more like the locals decked out with a pair of big FireStiks on the mirrors and a 9foot whip off the back bumper. It's called camoflage, you see. 

Most of them are out of their element and not even aware of it. 

Now if they were parked and had a cooler popped open and a couple of lawn chairs with mud on the TOP of the cab they would blend in a bit better as long as they weren't in $600 suits.

They might have been there to make their presence known. Let everything get quiet for a while and then they can go, their work there is done.


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## sawinredneck (Nov 18, 2008)

KsWoodsMan said:


> Like you cant spot those from a mile away. They would do a lot better if they drove something that looked a bit more like the locals decked out with a pair of big FireStiks on the mirrors and a 9foot whip off the back bumper. It's called camoflage, you see.
> 
> Most of them are out of their element and not even aware of it.
> 
> ...



Seriously, I would have rolled right by and never given it a second thought, they blended right in!! Two of them, one facing East, one west like lost travlers!!


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## mattmc2003 (Nov 18, 2008)

I say if you gotta drive 90 miles for 2 cords of wood, and back, its not worth the time to sell. Unless it brings a buttload more out there than it does here. Cause the way i figure....180 mile trip, average of fifteen MPG. If not less. Thats twelve gallons of fuel. Plus your time for a day. Wear and tear on vehicle (tires especially). Saw and chains and gas and oil. And then add a 4wheeler and tractor into the mix.... I'd stay home. IMO. I don't know the measure, but a long wheelbase F250 stacked to the brim brings $150 around here. I'd guess about a cord. Not sure though.


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## sawinredneck (Nov 18, 2008)

MR4WD said:


> You've rejected all of the ideas offered. Why don't you tell US the best way to yard wood out of the forest.



I am not "rejecting" anything, I am stating the problems I forsee with these methods. I am a pessimist by nature. The DR looked good, but I would rather drag most of the tree to the truck rather than have to cut and load a bunch of pieces, then load them again. The game with firewood is the less you handle it, the more you make.
I don't know the BEST way, I haven't a clue. I am leaning towards a used tracked mini-skidsteer. I can find these for less than a quad, and make more money using it for other uses.
But even then, I "THINK" it will work, I have no gaurntee that it will!!

I was hopping that another member here might have run into this and come up with some crazy off the wall trick that I had no idea about, or would have never thought of!!

Sorry if you feel offended, but I was hoping to hear from someone that had found a system that worked, not a theory.


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## coog (Nov 18, 2008)

mattmc2003 said:


> I say if you gotta drive 90 miles for 2 cords of wood, and back, its not worth the time to sell. Unless it brings a buttload more out there than it does here. Cause the way i figure....180 mile trip, average of fifteen MPG. If not less. Thats twelve gallons of fuel. Plus your time for a day. Wear and tear on vehicle (tires especially). Saw and chains and gas and oil. And then add a 4wheeler and tractor into the mix.... I'd stay home. IMO. I don't know the measure, but a long wheelbase F250 stacked to the brim brings $150 around here. I'd guess about a cord. Not sure though.



They call them the "Great Plains" for a reason.Redneck,KsW.M and I live in an area that originally had Cottonwood as the only tree.Our ancestors planted a little bit of everything, and they do grow huge here.About an hour and a half East is where the great Eastern forest ends.Worth the drive!(ask any guy burning pine in Alaska) Nothing easy about cutting/hauling/selling firewood.


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## Kazpian (Nov 18, 2008)

I was thinking about the hauling aspect of firewood and I was just curious what you fine folks thought about hauling it by the semiload. I am guessing it could hold 10 cords or possibly even more. Just curious what you all thought about that. Seems like one of the big issues hauling is the horrible cost of fuel when loaded - any thoughts ?


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## sawinredneck (Nov 18, 2008)

coog said:


> They call them the "Great Plains" for a reason.Redneck,KsW.M and I live in an area that originally had Cottonwood as the only tree.Our ancestors planted a little bit of everything, and they do grow huge here.About an hour and a half East is where the great Eastern forest ends.Worth the drive!(ask any guy burning pine in Alaska) Nothing easy about cutting/hauling/selling firewood.



That and he missed the post about Oak going for $125 a face and rising.
Even at four face, subtract $80 for gas, not a bad days work. ( I can split that in three hours the next day)


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## KsWoodsMan (Nov 18, 2008)

Sawinredneck, I haven't had any thoughts that weren't a trained hog, burro, horse, draft mule, 4-wheeler, winch of some kind or cable trolley.

I know the type of ground you are on. It looks solid , but when you fall through the grass you are stuck.

For packing it out by hand a shoulder harness to drag out small stuff would wear you out less since you aren't having to hold onto the wood. You are still walking all of it in and out though. 

I guess claring back the grater ditches has me spoiled. All of the wood is within 10 - 20 feet of the truck.


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## sawinredneck (Nov 18, 2008)

Kazpian said:


> I was thinking about the hauling aspect of firewood and I was just curious what you fine folks thought about hauling it by the semiload. I am guessing it could hold 10 cords or possibly even more. Just curious what you all thought about that. Seems like one of the big issues hauling is the horrible cost of fuel when loaded - any thoughts ?



I gave that VERY serious consideration a couple of years ago.
A couple of problems arose. First and foremost was the cost of fuel. That is several trips out cutting and not bringing anything back, you need a fuel effecient vehicle to make that work so no equipment can be brought along. You also run the risk of coming back and everything is gone the next trip.
Geting a semi and trailer in and out of this place would be a logistics nightmare! The weather would have to cooperate like Mother nature ever has!! Easy two weeks of dry, or three days of hard freeze, and even then you are not garunteed you wont sink the rig in the sand.
But beyond that, the sheer manpower, or equipment needed to load it in a timely manner negates ANY and ALL profit you stood to make. Even if you could get a truck running empty getting paid for fuel and mileage and my stop isn't that far out of his way. He isn't going to sit there for long waiting to get loaded.
Add in the fuel cost and...................
I really thought that was the ticket until I did some leg work on it. I found out fast I was wrong!!
Somebody just off the highway that has equipment handy, that would be the ticket, but each trip out there, such as today, is money lost.


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## sawinredneck (Nov 18, 2008)

KsWoodsMan said:


> Sawinredneck, I haven't had any thoughts that weren't a trained hog, burro, horse, draft mule, 4-wheeler, winch of some kind or cable trolley.
> 
> I know the type of ground you are on. It looks solid , but when you fall through the grass you are stuck.
> 
> ...



Those pics today, maybe 40 ft., but NO WAY I could even think of getting close today!!! 2-300yds was a stretch!

Yeah, dry in one spot, marsh three feet to the left!

I am liking the Mule idea more all the time. But my luck I would get one just as dumb and stubborn as me, then I would have to haul the azz around!!!
Gotta give me a bit for that one


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## abohac (Nov 18, 2008)

*Hauling*

I use a variety of things to get wood out of the woods. The two tools most helpful to me are my backhoe/loader and my Farmi winch. Both of these items are pretty darned expensive. The backhoe is a product of our farm and therefore a by-product for the wood. The Farmi is a dedicated wood hauling machine that is probably the best money I have ever spent for cutting wood. I'll post a couple of pics if I can remember how to do it.


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## wampum (Nov 18, 2008)

I have a four wheel drive tractor,I usually put it in the bucket or pull it behind on an old manure spreader......... Some folks around here use an old car hood or bed liner pulled behind the tractor or quad. The hood and bed liner work real well in snow,act similar to a sled,


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## grandpatractor (Nov 18, 2008)

Ya might just want to get one of these. The wheels are 14"X5" and its 1000lbs capacity. I have one for moving stuff outside and it rolls along pretty good.


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## sawinredneck (Nov 18, 2008)

grandpatractor said:


> Ya might just want to get one of these. The wheels are 14"X5" and its 1000lbs capacity. I have one for moving stuff outside and it rolls along pretty good.



Looked at that. didn't care much for the $400plus price tag!! You'd think for that kind of money a LOT less manual labor would be involved:jawdrop: 


Speaking of money, I told mama I needed $3k for a mini and she needed to take a week off to go get it with me.

I am afraid to go to sleep now!!


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## Kazpian (Nov 18, 2008)

sawinredneck said:


> I gave that VERY serious consideration a couple of years ago.
> A couple of problems arose. First and foremost was the cost of fuel. That is several trips out cutting and not bringing anything back, you need a fuel effecient vehicle to make that work so no equipment can be brought along.


True - unless you can keep equipment in the trailer itself. (I don't claim to have any knowledge how well one can stop a trailer from being attached and drove off with - yet another thing I have to look into.)


sawinredneck said:


> You also run the risk of coming back and everything is gone the next trip.


Agreed.


sawinredneck said:


> Geting a semi and trailer in and out of this place would be a logistics nightmare! The weather would have to cooperate like Mother nature ever has!! Easy two weeks of dry, or three days of hard freeze, and even then you are not garunteed you wont sink the rig in the sand.


(Something I don't have as a problem ).


sawinredneck said:


> But beyond that, the sheer manpower, or equipment needed to load it in a timely manner negates ANY and ALL profit you stood to make. Even if you could get a truck running empty getting paid for fuel and mileage and my stop isn't that far out of his way. He isn't going to sit there for long waiting to get loaded.


I was thinking of purchasing the trailer outright having it sit at the site until I can fill it and then hire a semi to come pick it up and drive it to a more convenient site.



sawinredneck said:


> Add in the fuel cost and...................


That is the part I have to find out. How much would it cost to have a semi driver haul a trailer 100 miles including hooking up and dropping. If it is cost effective it might even make sense to have 2 of them so the driver can complete both the load and unload in 1 trip. Would depend greatly on the cost for this.



sawinredneck said:


> I really thought that was the ticket until I did some leg work on it. I found out fast I was wrong!!
> 
> Somebody just off the highway that has equipment handy, that would be the ticket, but each trip out there, such as today, is money lost.



One thing that I am sure someone will mention is that loading and unloading a trailer full of wood cuts into your handling costs - which I can see and agree with. This is why I am inquiring about those firewood bags that had been posted about in here in a seperate thread. Seems like they could make unloading a trailer very rapid  Maybe I am being an idealist but I seem to think there is a possibility for this. Now my newest problem is my potential site seems to only contain willow and pine  

Guess I have to start looking around again.


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## grandpatractor (Nov 18, 2008)

sawinredneck said:


> Looked at that. didn't care much for the $400plus price tag!! You'd think for that kind of money a LOT less manual labor would be involved:jawdrop:
> 
> 
> Speaking of money, I told mama I needed $3k for a mini and she needed to take a week off to go get it with me.
> ...



Farm&Fleet has em listed for 129.99:monkey:


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## sawinredneck (Nov 18, 2008)

grandpatractor said:


> Farm&Fleet has em listed for 129.99:monkey:



Do they ship? 
None around here!


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## sawinredneck (Nov 18, 2008)

Kazpian said:


> True - unless you can keep equipment in the trailer itself. (I don't claim to have any knowledge how well one can stop a trailer from being attached and drove off with - yet another thing I have to look into.)
> 
> Agreed.
> 
> ...



You have some good ideas. I like it for you!! I do think I have a better/more feasable option though. It doesn't sound like you need to move it all that far, and you are in no real hurry. Why not just buy a large goosenck trailer? Every farmer and his son and brothers cousin has a 1 ton that will pull it, and will for cheap.
Locks are reasonable and fairly secure for those trailers.
Not as much money, not as much work to load, and a lot cheaper to move. Which with the wood you are talking about, you might want to keep costs low. (sorry, that was a low blow.)


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## KsWoodsMan (Nov 19, 2008)

How about one of these ?






1200 pounds empty, 4WD, heated cab, 900 pound carrying capacity, 600+cc gas engine, 5 speed or automatic, 50 MPG, 60 MPH, Hi/Lo range transfer case and right hand (British) steering.

Add a gooseneck hitch and trailer with electric brakes and you are hauling logs.


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## sawinredneck (Nov 19, 2008)

KsWoodsMan said:


> How about one of these ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




All it needs is a set of Gumbo's right?:monkey:


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## Kazpian (Nov 19, 2008)

sawinredneck said:


> You have some good ideas. I like it for you!! I do think I have a better/more feasable option though. It doesn't sound like you need to move it all that far, and you are in no real hurry. Why not just buy a large goosenck trailer? Every farmer and his son and brothers cousin has a 1 ton that will pull it, and will for cheap.
> Locks are reasonable and fairly secure for those trailers.
> Not as much money, not as much work to load, and a lot cheaper to move. Which with the wood you are talking about, you might want to keep costs low. (sorry, that was a low blow.)



I could potentially buy a large gooseneck trailer but here are my thoughts :
1) a Semi trailer could be used to store in corded sections (Ie build in fencing after every cord so that I could sell it right off the truck.
2) I could be wrong but I haven't seen any gooseneck trailers for sale that are enclosed (buying a new customized one would be a much larger cost than simply purchasing a used semi trailer. I won't try to load a gooseneck in a manner I don't think is safe).
3) I could be wrong but I suspect those farmer/son/brothers cousin will most likely also have a semi that could haul as well.

Not a low blow at all. I'm hoping to find a better site than the one I first looked at. The best thing about all of this is that I have time on my side. I can take as long as I want to decide to do this. If it should pass me by such is life. 

( Sorry for hijacking this thread with my own questions but as always I am very appreciative of any suggestions/thoughts and comments anyone has. 
As far as low blow it's not at all. I just need to find an acerage with oak or birch. Could be difficult to do out here but I will keep looking. I appreciate anyone pointing out any potential flaws I may have with my plan.)


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## mattmc2003 (Nov 19, 2008)

KsWoodsMan said:


> How about one of these ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Best idea yet. Get an old portable storage building, and keep it on site.


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## coog (Nov 19, 2008)

KsWoodsMan said:


> How about one of these ?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ks, what have you been seeing for prices on these? I always talk myself out of stopping when I drive through Winfield...trouble avoidance.


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## KsWoodsMan (Nov 19, 2008)

They are still too high IMO. They are in the $4,700 and up range in Winfield. 

The link I provided is the cheapest I have seen yet at $2700

I considered one for deliveries. If things keep going like they are here it will be a while yet. The load capacity is a bit light for what I want it to do. I have an old mustang2 8" rear axle that could be narrowed and improve that. The gooseneck trailer would have to be shop built or ordered special. 

Right now it is wishful thinking. I will just keep stacking a cord at a tiime on the Ford, like I have been for years.


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## sawinredneck (Nov 19, 2008)

TreeCo said:


> I just stepped out in the garage and had a talk with my Powerwagon. I mentioned that some redneck on the internet had called him a 'theory'. He was stunned and just sat there on his three wheels, silent.
> 
> After a few minutes he broke his silence and asked: Have you told him about all of the wood you and I have hauled great distances? Up hill? Over soft ground? Through gates? Did you tell him I can haul up to eight hundred pounds? That I have a four speed transmission? That my high gear is faster than a fast walk? Did you?
> 
> ...



OK, OK!! But how do you think it woud work on that soil? That is my fear, I can hit a soft spot and sink a wheelbarow in a heartbeat. Then it's back to hand carrying!



Kazpian said:


> I could potentially buy a large gooseneck trailer but here are my thoughts :
> 1) a Semi trailer could be used to store in corded sections (Ie build in fencing after every cord so that I could sell it right off the truck.
> 2) I could be wrong but I haven't seen any gooseneck trailers for sale that are enclosed (buying a new customized one would be a much larger cost than simply purchasing a used semi trailer. I won't try to load a gooseneck in a manner I don't think is safe).
> 3) I could be wrong but I suspect those farmer/son/brothers cousin will most likely also have a semi that could haul as well.
> ...



You can find deals on horse/stock trailers that are mostly enclosed and set up for a gooseneck.
Around here it's pretty rare to find a farmer with a semi. They guys that do custom cutting of wheat have them, but they come in from oher states with the equipment.
A few in the very rural areas have them for pulling grain trailers, but those are pretty big operations.
Most around here road the equipment from field to field.


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## Kazpian (Nov 19, 2008)

sawinredneck said:


> You can find deals on horse/stock trailers that are mostly enclosed and set up for a gooseneck.
> Around here it's pretty rare to find a farmer with a semi. They guys that do custom cutting of wheat have them, but they come in from oher states with the equipment.
> A few in the very rural areas have them for pulling grain trailers, but those are pretty big operations.
> Most around here road the equipment from field to field.



Well I would most likely be talking to people in the city. More than enough friends with heavy equipment/friends who work for companies who do hauling. Think it would be pretty simple to find someone to do it.


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## sesmith (Nov 19, 2008)

TreeCo said:


> I just stepped out in the garage and had a talk with my Powerwagon. I mentioned that some redneck on the internet had called him a 'theory'. He was stunned and just sat there on his three wheels, silent.
> 
> After a few minutes he broke his silence and asked: Have you told him about all of the wood you and I have hauled great distances? Up hill? Over soft ground? Through gates? Did you tell him I can haul up to eight hundred pounds? That I have a four speed transmission? That my high gear is faster than a fast walk? Did you?
> 
> ...




+1 I think your's was talking to mine.


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## dana60 (Nov 20, 2008)

Just an idea to deal with the soft ground but i used to work with a well drilling company and we would have to move the rig in and out of some really muddy spots. Just a little bigger than a pickup at 66,000 lbs. Anyway we had these matts to lay down that were some heavy type of plastic with big knobbies on them. You could get anything out with them usually and they were really strong running the rig over them. We also use rough sawn oak planks about 3" thick by about 10' but you really need 2 men for that. Maybe a few of them would work for ya and you could make a quick path to were your cuttin for the day then pick em up.


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## Philbert (Nov 20, 2008)

kevin j said:


> There was (is?) a track type machine specfically for the forest industry. About 5 hp, has two tracks, with a log arch type hoist point to pick up log end. The operator drives with a T bar type of handle, sort of like a warehouse pallet jack handle. Going down hill is the limiting factor. Also tiny, maybe 500 lbs or less, but able to drag maybe 1000 lbs. I have seen it in Diesel Progress trade magazine several times. Might have been Bombardier, but I thought it was from Norway/FInland maybe. SawTroll ever seen this thing? This would be my first choice.



Kevin and I must have seen the same thing at the Minnesota State Fair:

http://www.tiltonequipment.com/html/transporters.htm
http://www.tiltonequipment.com/html/transporters_40.htm

As I recall, they were not cheap, but look like they would really do the job. I was interested if anyone on this list had any experience using one.

Philbert


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## sawinredneck (Dec 1, 2008)

Problem solver!! Will be here Wensday!!





Log grapple also:


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## Metals406 (Dec 1, 2008)

sawinredneck said:


> Problem solver!! Will be here Wensday!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Now to install the armor plating...


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## cjcocn (Dec 1, 2008)

sawinredneck said:


> Problem solver!! Will be here Wensday!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wow, that looks like some machine!  

Is the ground clearance high enough so that you can take it where it needs to go? If not, it looks compact enough to maneuver around any stumps.

Congrats!


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## sawinredneck (Dec 1, 2008)

I think it clears at 5", but only 42" wide, so yes it can manuver! 2200lbs wet, and it cost me less than I could buy a used quad for!!


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## david78 (Dec 1, 2008)

Mike Van said:


> You'd need two guys to make this work - But, how about out where the trucks on good ground, hang a snatchblock up somewhere, run 3 or 4 hundred ft of cable or bullrope back to the woods, have a good 'hitch' ready to go with a choker on it & drive away ? When the hitch gets to the snatch, the guy unhooks, walks the line back to the woods as the driver backs up? Gotta beat the lugging by hand? No?



This is how I get mine if it's too far from the road. 'Course around here the hills are steep enough to just roll the blocks downhill to the road. Put the wife down there to catch them so they don't keep on going


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## sawinredneck (Dec 1, 2008)

TreeCo said:


> That ought to do it!



And hopefully a lot of other things as well Dan!


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## sawinredneck (Dec 1, 2008)

david78 said:


> This is how I get mine if it's too far from the road. 'Course around here the hills are steep enough to just roll the blocks downhill to the road. Put the wife down there to catch them so they don't keep on going



Another guy turned me onto this site:http://www.novajack.com/en/0105.asp#

This stuff is slicker than snot if you already have a qaud etc.!!!
I had already commited to the mini when I saw it.
Check it out, it could save a LOT of hassle!!!


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## R Walter (Dec 1, 2008)

*One of these works well for me*

These help me a lot. But I don't have thick, thick stands of timber, so I can get around easier.


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## sawinredneck (Dec 6, 2008)

Life as I know it has changed!!!! Today was the easiest day I have ever had hauling wood, other than my sawer sucked!!
This thing was slicker than snot! I could snake right in where ever I wanted, grab a hunck, haul it to the trailer, drive right on and drop it!! I easily piled thre feet high in the center of the trailer. The pieces I couldn't load I could drag and drop off to the side and cut latter.
The only complaint, if it's that, is it's thirsty, two and a half hours on two and a half gallons of gas. But I was hauling 100-150 yds back to the trailer.
Slick, I tell ya, just slick!!!!


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## grandpatractor (Dec 6, 2008)

sawinredneck said:


> Life as I know it has changed!!!! Today was the easiest day I have ever had hauling wood, other than my sawer sucked!!
> This thing was slicker than snot! I could snake right in where ever I wanted, grab a hunck, haul it to the trailer, drive right on and drop it!! I easily piled thre feet high in the center of the trailer. The pieces I couldn't load I could drag and drop off to the side and cut latter.
> The only complaint, if it's that, is it's thirsty, two and a half hours on two and a half gallons of gas. But I was hauling 100-150 yds back to the trailer.
> Slick, I tell ya, just slick!!!!



Cool, Glad it is working out!!


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## ericjeeper (Dec 7, 2008)

*Mercy sakes*

You have a piece of equipment that works for 1.79.9 an hour and you are whining?LOL
I am glad to hear that little machine is working well for you.


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## Metals406 (Dec 7, 2008)

Where's the pics/video? 

Glad it's working out for you!


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## coog (Dec 7, 2008)

I, for one, refuse to believe it works.
You'll have to let me use it for a week or two to change my mind.


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## treemandan (Dec 7, 2008)

sawinredneck said:


> Life as I know it has changed!!!! Today was the easiest day I have ever had hauling wood, other than my sawer sucked!!
> This thing was slicker than snot! I could snake right in where ever I wanted, grab a hunck, haul it to the trailer, drive right on and drop it!! I easily piled thre feet high in the center of the trailer. The pieces I couldn't load I could drag and drop off to the side and cut latter.
> The only complaint, if it's that, is it's thirsty, two and a half hours on two and a half gallons of gas. But I was hauling 100-150 yds back to the trailer.
> Slick, I tell ya, just slick!!!!



Yeah they seem to suck it down and yeah, life is different. 3 g's. real nice. Never understimate the little guy.


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## treemandan (Dec 7, 2008)

Don't fell bad about spending the money. You do the work you need the tools. Its yours now and both me and The Dan are VERY happy for you... somewhat releived actually.

Here is the last little job I did with mine. It seems pathic to some people but I got paid for it.










I have more pics but I had to dig some shrubs out and save the paccasandry. Lots out roots zones going through there. Anything bigger would have caused damage, hand shovels are out of the question... so is going around with a bunch of mexicans in tow.


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## cjcocn (Dec 7, 2008)

treemandan

Thanks for the pics!

That first pic is especially impressive. I can see why sawinredneck is so impressed with his machine!


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## Mike Van (Dec 7, 2008)

Nice rig Dan - What a worksaver.


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## treemandan (Dec 7, 2008)

cjcocn said:


> treemandan
> 
> Thanks for the pics!
> 
> That first pic is especially impressive. I can see why sawinredneck is so impressed with his machine!



I can't wait to see what Sawinredneck is up to with his. I am sure he hasn't slept in awhile due to the excitment.


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## sawinredneck (Dec 7, 2008)

I've slept a little better after yesterday!! Sorry, no pics, yesterday was a "hit and run" deal. I am making another run tomorrow if the weather holds, and will leave earlier and have a bit more time. As well as not having my "help" means things go faster! Hopefully the guy that leases the place has his deer and I can get into the good wood while it's dry.
No coog, you can't borrow it!!! I will rent it, but I come with it!!
Treemandan, I have wanted one of these for three or four years, just had no idea the grapple could work the wonders it does!! The biggest chunk was 16'x 16", I got it to the trailer, but I couldn't get it on the trailer. The machine wanted to, but I didn't weigh enough!!
I wanted tracks, but I don't know that they would make that much difference in the short wheel base.

DAVE ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PERIOD!!!!! I owe him much gratitude!!! The deal on this was unreal!! 4.2g's with the grapple sitting in my driveway, and I got a free dinner and breakfast!! NOTHING BUT GOOD PEOPLE!!!!

I will take the camera and try and get some good shots, as best I can solo, tommorow!!
Anybody have ideas on a decent scabard for these things?


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## treemandan (Dec 7, 2008)

sawinredneck said:


> I've slept a little better after yesterday!! Sorry, no pics, yesterday was a "hit and run" deal. I am making another run tomorrow if the weather holds, and will leave earlier and have a bit more time. As well as not having my "help" means things go faster! Hopefully the guy that leases the place has his deer and I can get into the good wood while it's dry.
> No coog, you can't borrow it!!! I will rent it, but I come with it!!
> Treemandan, I have wanted one of these for three or four years, just had no idea the grapple could work the wonders it does!! The biggest chunk was 16'x 16", I got it to the trailer, but I couldn't get it on the trailer. The machine wanted to, but I didn't weigh enough!!
> I wanted tracks, but I don't know that they would make that much difference in the short wheel base.
> ...




16x16, yup that constitutes a log. I am trying to finger out how to mount some stuff to hold stuff to mine. A scabard sounds about right.


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## sawinredneck (Dec 7, 2008)

treemandan said:


> 16x16, yup that constitutes a log. I am trying to finger out how to mount some stuff to hold stuff to mine. A scabard sounds about right.



I figure since I am cutting standing dead/blowdowns, all I have to do is make a couple of cuts, haul the wood back and find another one. If the saw runs out of gas, I should have enough wood to justify a trip back to the truck anyway. I just want to carry a saw full of oil and fuel, then run back and forth. If that makes sense?


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## Metals406 (Dec 7, 2008)

You have any pics of the back and sides of your machine?.. I might be able to come up with something for you? Can you fab?

If not, I can probably hook you up.


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## sawinredneck (Dec 7, 2008)

Metals406 said:


> You have any pics of the back and sides of your machine?.. I might be able to come up with something for you? Can you fab?
> 
> If not, I can probably hook you up.



I can fab, and have a machine shop a block from the house that I have free rein in.
I will try and get pics tomorrow.


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## Slick (Dec 8, 2008)

I rented one of the Toro version of that...like the one someone posted with teh bucket...what a machine. I rented it to trench my ditch for my OWB insulated pipe....was raining like crazy that day, thing went anywhere I wanted with those tracks. Trenched over 100ft in like 45 minutes....then went looking for things to do with it as I had it rented for half a day....trenched some gutter extensions..then cleaned out a huge ditch of mine. I took it back and they said they had a bucket for it also...man I could have used that thing on my ditch! I ran that thing for a few hours...when to fill it up with diesel to bring it back...used less than a gallon! I coudln't believe it. 
I would buy one of those used in minute....and with that grapple hook..man what a log puller.


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## sawinredneck (Dec 8, 2008)

Pics and a heck of a story to come later, BAAAAADD DAY today!!! Mini's rule, but God help you if you sink one!!!!!


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## beerman6 (Dec 8, 2008)

opcorn:


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## ericjeeper (Dec 8, 2008)

*I am waiting for pics*



sawinredneck said:


> Pics and a heck of a story to come later, BAAAAADD DAY today!!! Mini's rule, but God help you if you sink one!!!!!



and the story.. I almost got my dozer hung up down in a holler once.. I was scared bad.. I have plenty of friends with big tractors.. but they all have cabs with GLASS in them.. and My skidding trails are not wide up high.. I managed to use the blade to pick up the front of the tracks so I could put rocks under it.. Finally managed to waller my way out on my own.


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## treemandan (Dec 8, 2008)

sawinredneck said:


> Pics and a heck of a story to come later, BAAAAADD DAY today!!! Mini's rule, but God help you if you sink one!!!!!



Yeah, I would advise against that BUT : Did you really think it would make it or were you pushing it? Maybe get some narrow strips of plywood for such adventures? I don't know but you did describe some nasty quagmire earlier just how bad is it?
Get that thing stuck on a low stumps so we can all see the riot. I hope she is allright.


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## ouachita (Dec 8, 2008)

for sawenredneck. get a billet truck. its a 2 ton truck. cut off the bed to the frame and build the biggest bunks you can. put a boom at the front. take another rearend form a half ton standard and bolt it under the boom. you will have to hook up some linkeig to the pto on your transmission. its not hard. the rear end then becomes a whinch. it will not only skid loggs it will load the trees in four foot sections on the truck. you can even pull a trailer.


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## sawinredneck (Dec 8, 2008)

Some pics.
I overloaded the mini then hit a soft spot and buried it!!I raised the front and shoved some Cedar trees under the front tires, no workie!! I tried pulling it out with the grapple, no workie!! I forgot the shovel:monkey: and dug out as best I could with an axe, no workie!! I finally used two "keeper" ratcheting tie downs tied together with everything els and got it out. Batteries on the camera where going dead, and I was solo, so thepics suck. Sorry!!
The ruts:






The small load:





The back of the machine as requested:





Tree to the truck:





The worksite of the day:


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## Metals406 (Dec 8, 2008)

sawinredneck said:


> Some pics.
> I overloaded the mini then hit a soft spot and buried it!!I raised the front and shoved some Cedar trees under the front tires, no workie!! I tried pulling it out with the grapple, no workie!! I forgot the shovel:monkey: and dug out as best I could with an axe, no workie!! I finally used two "keeper" ratcheting tie downs tied together with everything els and got it out. Batteries on the camera where going dead, and I was solo, so thepics suck. Sorry!!
> The ruts:
> 
> ...



You wanted a 'basket' to carry bar oil and saw gas right? Something you can remove from the little loader?


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## sawinredneck (Dec 8, 2008)

Metals406 said:


> You wanted a 'basket' to carry bar oil and saw gas right? Something you can remove from the little loader?



Nope, just a scabard, I am running back and forth enough that it's easy to stop and fill the saw up.


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## Metals406 (Dec 8, 2008)

sawinredneck said:


> Nope, just a scabard, I am running back and forth enough that it's easy to stop and fill the saw up.



What about a VHMW scabbard mounted to the side then? You can buy them to mount on your truck headache rack.


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## treemandan (Dec 8, 2008)

Yeah, plywood. Of course you walk out first to pick the line then load up some ply and drive out. You should be able to cut 3 strips out of one sheet. I use thin plywood 3/8, 1/4. 
A bad day is when you see blood or actuall property or equipment destruction.
Did you say you used ratchet straps to winch it out?


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## sawinredneck (Dec 8, 2008)

Metals406 said:


> What about a VHMW scabbard mounted to the side then? You can buy them to mount on your truck headache rack.



I thought about that, the problem I ran into was hanging the saw verticle, the bar would get into the tire hanging on the outside, even the 18". Not much room on the inside for anything!!
What I am thinking about now is two 2x8"s run along the outer rail and bolted on. Cut out for the bar then the powerhead is towards the controls and the bar hanging to the back?


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## sawinredneck (Dec 8, 2008)

treemandan said:


> Yeah, plywood. Of course you walk out first to pick the line then load up some ply and drive out. You should be able to cut 3 strips out of one sheet. I use thin plywood 3/8, 1/4.
> A bad day is when you see blood or actuall property or equipment destruction.
> Did you say you used ratchet straps to winch it out?



Laugh all you want, but yes!! 30k# tie downs, and a lot of luck!

The plywood just takes up so much room though!! I had walked it all, even before I drove the truck out there. But it's a crap shoot at best! You are just riding on top of the grass/brush no matter where you go, break through that, the day is over!


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## Dok (Dec 8, 2008)

That's just nasty terrain! Does it ever freeze up?
Dok


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## sawinredneck (Dec 8, 2008)

Dok said:


> That's just nasty terrain! Does it ever freeze up?
> Dok



Not really lately!! And if/when it does it's for a short time and you probably don't want to drive the 90 miles to get there!!!


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## treemandan (Dec 8, 2008)

sawinredneck said:


> Laugh all you want, but yes!! 30k# tie downs, and a lot of luck!
> 
> The plywood just takes up so much room though!! I had walked it all, even before I drove the truck out there. But it's a crap shoot at best! You are just riding on top of the grass/brush no matter where you go, break through that, the day is over!



Oh I ain't laughing, it was pretty ingenious  

Keep the ply laying on the deck of the trailer and put the loader on top of it. 2 sheets can get you 24 feet of plywood roadway, more if all you need is 1 foot wide strips. Just enough for the tough spots. Besides, What are your options at this point?
Maybe make a rack on the trailer sides out of the way to hold it.


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## sawinredneck (Dec 8, 2008)

Yeah, I could see four pieces along the side of the trailers rails!! GREAT idea there, thank you!


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## Metals406 (Dec 9, 2008)

The scabbards' I'm finding online, start at 140 bucks, all the way to 250 bucks! Yikes.:jawdrop: 
I see a good mounting point on your machine too! It's on the left-hand side of where you stand on the back. Because of the price of the manufactured ones, go ahead and make one out of two 2X6's, and a piece of 1/2" plywood.

*Start with your piece of 1/2" ply, place your bar w/chain on the board and trace around it (give yourself about 1/4" more for clearance). Make the scabbard depth, where it will either sit on the dogs, or the case... If you're worried about it beating on the saw, tack weather-stripping or chunks of inner tube to the top of the wood pieces. 
*





*Cutout the trace line with a jigsaw, sawz most, or whatever you got.
*





*Cut a 2X6 (or 2X8, whatever you picked) that matches the plywood in width and length... Screw and glue the first two together. I like poly glues--like Gorilla glue.*






*Decide where you want your mounting points in relation to the machine. I imagine 1/4" carriage bolts would work well. To countersink the heads, first drill a larger whole, at the required depth, to get the heads just below--or flush with the wood... Then drill all the way through with a 3/16" bit. Using a smaller bit will allow you to drive the bolts through, giving them a tight fit... A dab of glue in the hole wouldn't hurt either.
*





*Glue and screw your second 2X? on, and you're ready to mount to your machine. I would think having the power-head of the saw facing out, would give you more room to stand on the machine.
*


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## Mike Van (Dec 9, 2008)

A scabbard can be quick & easy too - two pieces of 1/2" plywood, 1/2" spacer on both edges, leave the bottom open, crap will fall out, 28" bar sticks out a few inches. Leave the back piece of plywood wider than the front, good place to drill to mount it.




Then there's the vertical model on the tractor -


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## coog (Dec 9, 2008)

Mike, what is that mounted on the front of your tractor in the second picture?
Nice old saws, by the way.Makes me proud to be an American!


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## Mike Van (Dec 9, 2008)

On the front is a log loader I threw together some 15+ years ago coog. I don't have another pic. of it [the rest of it] anywhere - But I'll get some - And, I do like those old saws!


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