# Introducing the Chainmeister



## pavement99 (May 9, 2013)

View attachment 294476

Purpose: To make the exercise of hand sharpening a chain much less of an exercise.
The ChainMeister Allows you to mount and tension a chain on any length bar, _without the chainsaw_.
View attachment 294477

- Made in the USA
- Built to last a lifetime
View attachment 294479

- Intuitive and easy-to-use
- Tool-less operation
- For use in the shop, or in the field
- A time saver, and a money saver.
- Zinc-plated ChainMeister $108
- 100% Stainless Steel $137
Available now at TreeStuff.com
View attachment 294481


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## pavement99 (May 10, 2013)

The best way I can think to introduce you to this product is to let the product do the talking through the experience of some current users.

I have asked 5 or 6 active ChainMeister owners to offer up their report to the public, right here.

The first presenter is Josh Loewen, certified Arborist, owner of Greentree Arbor Care, out of Indianapolis, Indiana.

I have chosen Josh to go first because he was the very first ChainMeister purchaser in the United States. Josh came into our store, saw the device on display and could instantly see the advantages.

Please be patient with our presenters as I have asked them to include numerous pictures and video when possible. This takes time. They will be sharing with you their first-hand experiences using the ChainMeister; the good, the bad, the everything.

Take it away, Mr Loewen!





pavement99 said:


> View attachment 294476
> 
> Purpose: To make the exercise of hand sharpening a chain much less of an exercise.
> The ChainMeister Allows you to mount and tension a chain on any length bar, _without the chainsaw_.
> ...


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## roberte (May 10, 2013)

it seems interesting enough. I would test drive it first before I decide on weather its $108.00 interesting.


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## KenJax Tree (May 10, 2013)

Seems to work well but for $108 i will just sharpen chains still on the power head.


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## paccity (May 10, 2013)

an idea , but i just pac fresh loops. pac a file but don't hardly use it.


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## madhatte (May 10, 2013)

I see exactly how it works, and approve of the simplicity and robustness of the design. What I don't see is how this is better than just leaving the chain on the saw to sharpen it. A stump vise costs ten bucks.


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## roberte (May 11, 2013)

I am assuming (insert joke here) that maybe I have gone thru x # of chains today and I have one on the saw but I don't feel like sharpening _and_ taking it apart and doing that drill, so I can put the other/rest of my dull chains on this device.?


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## mdavlee (May 11, 2013)

It would be nice for me sharpening chains for racing. It may be worth the $108 depending on how much your time is worth.


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## Philbert (May 11, 2013)

It looks like a well made, and like a well thought out product. I like the clean lines and the large knobs for leverage. It is not for the guy who runs one chain on his saw until it is dead, then thinks about buying another chain.

I prefer to take a few chains per saw, swap them out in the field, then sharpen them back home / at the shop, etc. So mounting, then dismounting each chain on and off the saw is a royal pain in the scrench. Plus, if you have multiple saws, you have to bring each one into the basement, shop, wherever with all of the gas, leaking oil, etc. I also sharpen chains for others, and might not have their saw present. Bottom line, if you do a number of chains, it is nice to have an off-the-saw way to sharpen.

This is not a big deal when I use my grinder - I have to remove the chains anyway. If I file, I like to use the Granberg type file guides mounted on scrap bars that are held in a machinist's vise. The Granberg guide has a dog that positions and holds each cutter steady while filing. I have scrap .050 and .063 bars I use for this (anyone want to donate a .058?). As long as the bar groove is the right gauge, I don't need a different scrap bar for each loop length.

I could see where the Chainmeister would be an attractive device for many hand filers. But I don't know that it offers an advantage over a decent filing vise ( examples: http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/120500.htm ). It also appears that you need to use a bar that is somewhat close in length to the loop that is being filed in order to pull the tension, so if you have several sizes of saws, you will either have to pull those bars to sharpen the chains, or have a variety of spare bars available to use.

Again, looks like a well designed product that could be the cat's meow for some hand filers. It's nice to have a selection of devices to choose from.

Philbert


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## redprospector (May 11, 2013)

mdavlee said:


> It would be nice for me sharpening chains for racing. It may be worth the $108 depending on how much your time is worth.



You may be right, but I think I like mine better.





Andy


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## GTArborcare (May 12, 2013)

*Chainmeister review*



mdavlee said:


> It would be nice for me sharpening chains for racing. It may be worth the $108 depending on how much your time is worth.



View attachment 295136


I have been using the Chainmeister for several weeks. I picked it up from treestuff.com and it has been a huge time saver for me. I do not sharpen in the field, I keep multiple chains for each saw on the truck. My time in the field is too valuable to be sharpening. I always seem to have 25 chains siting on my work bench. I have used a grinder in the past but I really prefer hand filed chains.

View attachment 295135


With the Chainmeister, I can file in the shop, not have to fool with the power head. With the simple tensioner I get consistent results, quickly. It is way more user friendly than the vise I have been using. It is not the cheapest tool, but when it comes to tools that make me money I am looking for quality and efficiency. It has been a huge time saver for me. Nothing beats a well hand filed chain.

View attachment 295146


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## nelson727 (May 13, 2013)

This is one where I have to admit I was wrong. When I first saw a picture of the Chainmeister I thought it was a good looking tool but, why would I want one? I sharpen all my chains on the saws. I do whatever it takes to keep from rocking a saw and I keep tree saw usage different from ground saw usage. If I can’t get it sharp in three to five strokes I have a new chain for each saw in my toolbox.

Well, that’s my intention anyway, in practice things happen. Over the next day or two I thought about the boxes of partially used chains I have built up and given away over the years. I have a box full of new chains, I never mount a dull chain back on a saw and give it a chance of screwing up the next days work.

So the next order from TreeStuff I asked Luke to put one in. Now I find I’m reaching into that box of used chain and loading the CM with another loop and leaving it sitting there until I have a few minutes to kill while my wife gets ready to go etc.. Wish I would have had this all along.


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## nelson727 (May 13, 2013)

So here is what I have on hand at this time, about 30 dull chains 12 to 42 inch.

View attachment 295164

And after having put a few sharpened chains in my saw boxes, here is the first visible 'proof' of improvement to me-a new bag started for "sharp" chains.
View attachment 295163


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## nelson727 (May 13, 2013)

Ha! That was my first ever picture posted. 

GTArborcare, welcome to ArboristSite by the way, it is refreshing to hear some of your thoughts. My workdays are long and intense so if my saw chain is a little off my only question is can I sharpen it quick or am I putting on a new chain? What’s going to get me back to what pays? And when I first started my own tree service I bought one of the nicest Silvey chain grinders you could get. Soon after it was for sale. Between not being happy with the results of a grinder sharpened chain and having to plan to “pull” a chain to sharpen it the grinder just wasn’t for me.

In spite of my best intentions to use a chain up on the saw it’s intended for I would inevitably end up taking some off at some points because they hit a nail or nicked a rock etc.. “That’s ok, I’m making money now, I’ll get to that latter.” Latter would never come and when I got tired of looking at the box filling up over the years I would give it to one of my firewood cutting friends who values his time at less $ than I do. 

So after facing that I have been lying to myself all these years about how efficiently I use saw chain up I was clear I wanted the Chainmeister. I like filing when I have a little time to kill. For me the CM rounds out how to make that all workable.


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## nelson727 (May 14, 2013)

My next problem was that this is what my bench has been looking like, with the same down around my feet.

View attachment 295308


And so these new flush mount vises make for a lot more comfortable positioning of the Chainmeister to file.

View attachment 295309


And more versatile too. This 3/4 plywood plank is set up to mount all my bars from 12 inches to 64 inches.

View attachment 295310


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## imagineero (May 14, 2013)

So if you're not taking the bar off your powerheard you also need to have a spare bar for every size of chain you've got, and swap the do hickey over to the appropriate bar for each chain?


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## GTArborcare (May 14, 2013)

imagineero said:


> So if you're not taking the bar off your powerheard you also need to have a spare bar for every size of chain you've got, and swap the do hickey over to the appropriate bar for each chain?



I just use an old worn bar that I have retired. There always seems to be an adequate supply laying around the shop.


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## nelson727 (May 14, 2013)

Yeah it takes a bar the correct lenghth for chain. In addition to the fact I have no shortage of old run out bars (I keep the worn ones for when I have to do a job in water/sand or put at risk in some other way) I also have new bars waiting as replacements. 

My big saws have a couple different length bars too. So if I do a felling cut with a 60 inch bar and am done with big cuts on that job I pull that bar and chain and put on a 42 in. bar to do bucking and blocking if need be. So I'm excited that now I will be able to touch up my 60 in. chain back at home in down time and have it razer sharp for the next job.

There are some YouTube vids for the Chainmeister that show how quick you can put it on and off. Funny enough I don't need it to be that quick but, it wasn't until I saw those videos and went to work the next day that my mind said, "Oh thats an answer to...."

Last night when I was setting up a plank for the vise and different length bars I deal with I had the CM on three diff. bars and sharpened four chains in just a short time. I like that.


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## Philbert (May 14, 2013)

nelson727 said:


> And so these new flush mount vises make for a lot more comfortable positioning of the Chainmeister ...



Are those vices part of the Chainmeister product line?

Thanks.

Philbert


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## nelson727 (May 15, 2013)

Philbert said:


> Are those vices part of the Chainmeister product line?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Philbert



Yes I believe they are a part of that product line (from TreeStuff). After I got the Chainmeister I figured out that my vise is too high and was far too messy for enjoyable filing. So as soon as I saw those vices up on the TreeStuff website I ordered a set. They are really well made like the CM and stout.

Had fun setting up a dedicated 'plank' that will fit all of my bars well, and bonus - I cleaned my bench.

View attachment 295460


Here is a picture of an easier way to load and unload the Chainmeister off of bars (especially long ones). Hang the bar and chain over the end of the bench and it makes it easy to just slip the CM up into place.

View attachment 295461


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## EcoGuy (May 17, 2013)

*Can the Chainmeister bring happiness to my world??? YUP!*

Well, of course there are other things that bring joy to me other than my new Chainmeister. My lovely wife and kids. Happy dogs. A beautiful day. Some peace in the world.... you get the picture.
One thing that does not bring me joy, is sharpening chains, and when I down to zero ready to run loops, I am not on the happy camper list. I mounted the bar clamps on a scrap of 2x12 left over from a project, and pilot drilled the base so I can run screws through it to secure it to any surface, other than the kitchen table. Remember the lovely wife bit? A C-clamp locks it in places where screws are inappropriate.

I found the Chainmeister to be a rock solid performer. It was easy to swap chains out, and the tensioning design held them completely stable, and gave me a great cutting set of chains in short order. As a bonus, I took the rig up to the shore of my pond, and listened to the frog symphony as to worked through my chains. Then I took a dip in the chilly water as a bonus. 

I completely recommend the Chainmeister to those wanting to make a not-so-fun task a lot faster and easier.


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## 2dogs (May 17, 2013)

This is your first post? This whole thread has a bad feel for me. Like going to an auction andthinking the guys bidding high are shills. I am probably wrong about this, but I'm not sayin, I'm jus sayin.


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## roberte (May 17, 2013)

2dogs said:


> This is your first post? This whole thread has a bad feel for me. Like going to an auction andthinking the guys bidding high are shills. I am probably wrong about this, but I'm not sayin, I'm jus sayin.



I second that statement. Maybe I'm just too cynical for my own good.
My original take on this stands.


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## nelson727 (May 18, 2013)

I think I resemble that comment!!!!

X Rigging Rings instead of blocks most of the time, RopeArmour in every big shots throw weight inventory-for people who compare time/money, oh and have I told you why I think every tree co. should consider having a Bandit 65 as a man movable chipper? These are some of the other things I am a shill about.

If anyone else has something that will save me time, make me money, or put some of the spice back in my love life with tree work, please let me know.

2dogs I noticed you have a lot of posts, looked on your profile (about you) and noticed you do contract falling for CalFire. I fantasized about doing that for a minute when I was driving by a fire toward my then logging job in Covelo, CA. I would think that if I were doing that I would use up almost every bit of my chains on the saw just filing a few strokes at a time. Do you do any other form of sharpening than, as you go, on the powerhead?

When I saw there had been some posts on this thread I was excited for the opportunity to learn another trick about Chainmeister use or some such. If anyone has any pointers please post them. EcoGuy I’m going to pass on your trick for mixing sharpening with a relaxing dip in the pond. I’m two stones throw from the Pacific Ocean but, it’s 55 degrees. Welcome to AS.


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## nelson727 (May 18, 2013)

EcoGuy I just used screws to initially try the vises out. Below are the inserts I was thinking of installing in the top of my workbench which would have given me machine threads to screw into. 

View attachment 295970


I decided against this on the distinct possibility that my bench would be piled high and I wouldn't be able to get to them. Instead I went with a board, as you did, and these as they are cheeper and I could easily flip the board over and pound them in. Also I like the board for its versatility.
View attachment 295971


The benifit to machine threads in my mind is to be able to quickly screw in or out a finger tight bolt for adjustments.


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## Gologit (May 18, 2013)

nelson727 said:


> 2dogs I noticed you have a lot of posts, looked on your profile (about you) and noticed you do contract falling for CalFire. I fantasized about doing that for a minute when I was driving by a fire toward my then logging job in Covelo, CA. I would think that if I were doing that I would use up almost every bit of my chains on the saw just filing a few strokes at a time. Do you do any other form of sharpening than, as you go, on the powerhead?
> 
> .



Another Covelo survivor!  Who did you work for up there?


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## imagineero (May 18, 2013)

Maybe this thing does have a place.... 

If you only have one or two bar sizes, and tend to swapout rather than sharpen in the field, and prefer hand sharpened over machine sharpened, then it's probably a good labor saver. I have a 511a with the dynasaw CBN wheel, but I still favor hand sharpening. My time in the field is just too valuable to spend it sharpening chains - I need to keep my crew working. So I bring a dozen saws, and a spare chain for each. I figure if I blunt 2 dozen chains in a day I'm just going to call it a day. I sharpen every saw by hand at the end of each day, in a vice on a sharpening bench with my angles marked out on it. I do my rakers with a DAF ala BobL. I don't have more than 2 saws with the same bar, so that gadget sounds like a lot of work for me. I sharpen all my chains on the saw, and each saw gets a quick blow off/clean out and a check to make sure the chain is rotating smoothly. If it isn't it gets stripped and the bar groove/clutch area cleaned. Any time a saw gets a new chain the bar gets flipped and trued, and the saw gets a more detailed cleaning.

Shaun


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## Philbert (May 18, 2013)

nelson727 said:


> Below are the inserts I was thinking of installing in the top of my workbench which would have given me machine threads to screw into. . . .I decided against this on the distinct possibility that my bench would be piled high and I wouldn't be able to get to them. Instead I went with a board, as you did, and these as they are cheeper and I could easily flip the board over and pound them in. Also I like the board for its versatility.



In general, I like using boards for things like this as well. Chain grinder, bench grinder, spinner and breaker, non-chainsaw related tools, etc. Bolt them to a board with 'T'-nuts (as above), then either clamp the board to a work surface, or clamp in a vise with a cleat. Let's me move and mount them in a variety of locations, indoors or outdoors, depending on the task, instead of dedicating a specific area of a work bench to just one task. Might be different in a dedicated saw shop.

If you don't like clamps, you can also bore holes through the board and bench, then secure them with long bolts and wing nuts - fast, and don't get in the way as much as clamps can. Don't have to worry about threaded insert holes getting buggered up either.

Philbert


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## nelson727 (May 18, 2013)

Gologit, I worked for Cambell Mathews Skyline Logging for a season. Setting chokers, go to new kid, and once we were set up ran the landing. Loved the work - couldn’t abide the competition to be the most animalistic. 

Ha! Ha! Ha! Just remembered my first memorable experience about sharpening. The working owner Cecil Mathews’ brother was our rigging slinger. He carried a lot of weight for his skill and knowledge as well as his family ties. We were at the head of a new skyline road and I was buried in logs that needed to have knots bumped and be branded so the loader operator could deck them. He grabs up one of the 5 cube Macs that we were using and goes to make a cut with it - oh, it would have been re-bucking a broken log. Next thing I know he has a 36 inch bar buried straight down in the ground with just the powerhead showing and he is cussing a blue streak. 

Turns out with two minutes of instruction and all of a few days of sharpening practice the new kid wasn’t producing satisfactory results yet. The truth of the matter, my chains don’t look that pretty today. I feel I have accomplished my goal if my saw cuts like a house a fire.


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## EcoGuy (May 23, 2013)

This is my current project, the one for which I bought the ChainMeister.
I am not an arborist. I am a lifelong chainsaw user, however. 
View attachment 296815

There is a newly-created pond around the far side of this slash pile. All of this tree mix was bulldozed into a pile so there is grit and crud throughout. Many may think I'm a bit crazy, but I want to extract as much firewood out of here as I possibly can. It is all there for the taking, I just need to get in there and patiently cut it out.

At the beginning of day one we had a helpful friend and extra chains. At the end of day one I had 8 dull chains and zero sharp chains with no chains at all for tomorrow. I was not going to sharpen chains outside in my shop all night long. Wisely, I called the next day off. To get through this project I just needed a better strategy, a plan. 

Those 8 new loops cost me is over $100. The local hardware wanted a week to sharpen them and six bucks apiece. Doing the math to salvage out this pile, it was looking prohibitively expensive. Certainly arborists would never run their chain management like this, so went looking in your halls for an answer.
View attachment 296815

Here is our new pond, I am very proud of it, but it came with this giant pile of brush on the far side. Trust me, everyone has said, just light the whole thing on fire. I am EcoGuy. I use firewood. Why would I torch the on-site resource? I just need to solve this chain thing.

I went to Google, typed in something like ' chain sharpening device ' and I came to Treestuff.com I read a few reviews on the ChainMeister, and this chain mounter stretcher just made sense to me right off the bat, so I ordered one. I was already into this over a hundred bucks in chains alone, I needed to salvage them, as well as every dull chain for the rest of my life. 
View attachment 296816
View attachment 296817

I mounted the clamp stands on a scrap piece of 2x12,. I figured that I could screw it into rounded surfaces, like a big, stable log, or onto my beat-up workbench, which is flat. So I put mounting drill outs near the center as well as the edge. Plus the 2x12 has plenty of beef, and width, for c-clamping where I don’t want to run a screw. Zero cost, plus versatile – I love it.

The ChainMeister helped me sharpen the 8 dull chains, prior to the rescheduled workday #2 without having to have a chainsaw attached. No bar oil stink, no gas fumes, no bulky powerhead, no tools needed to use the ChainMeister. Quick on, quick off. Does what it's supposed to.

Sharpening with the ChainMeister let me tension for filing quickly, and change through the series of dull chains. The ChainMeister worked very well and appears robust enough to meet one of my tool purchasing requirements: that it holds up for a long time.


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## nelson727 (May 24, 2013)

My hat is off to you EcoGuy. I pick up trash with grabbers as I walk the beach with my wife (it makes her happy) but I would fall into the torch the pile camp when it comes to your project. Something that might be of use to know is that there is a chain with ‘sprayed on carbide’. I bought a loop of it to help a friend cut pilings that had been pulled out of silt. That job fell through and we never tried the chain. It sharpens with a normal file. If your chain dulling pile is ever starting to get the best of you I would be willing to put it on a saw and make some cuts on dirty wood to tell you how it holds up. Your pond and property look beautiful by the way!

Have you noticed any tricks to using the CM?


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## pavement99 (May 28, 2013)

Thank you all for your time, both the contributions and the responses.

This product is so new to us that we are looking for the best way to display the ChainMeister to the saw-using community. The intent of this thread was to have the ChainMeister show itself off through the experience of the earliest users. 

What we would like to do next is introduce a member of the ChainMeister team.

Tree Machine is a full-time arborist, He didn't invent the device, but from the updates we've gotten over the last three years, he is fully involved. He's taken ChainMeister prototypes to the TCIA EXPO in both Pittsburgh, Hartford and Columbus and has been the social front of this device and the liazon between Treestuff and those persons manufacturing the devices.

Tree Machine thought it valuable that new, first-time buyers give the reports. Treestuff thanks those contributors for donating their time, images and feedback. Now onto the next part of the presentation...


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## roberte (May 28, 2013)

opcorn:


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## mdavlee (May 28, 2013)

I'm going to say you'll get a lot more interest in the chainsaw forum. A lot do it as a hobby and that would be a nice addition for many of them. Heck I'll demo one if you want to send it


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## HuskStihl (May 28, 2013)

If you get Bob, Randy (any of the "big three"), Glen, Shaun, Bitz, Rope, Pac, Jeff etc, etc,etc, or Philbert to say this is $108 well spent, then it is. Until then, this is an infomercial. Mdavlee is right, however, there aren't many who hang out here, and most that do are somewhat set in their ways.
Nothing against you or your product, which appears well designed and built.


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## roberte (May 28, 2013)

You know were I would use it.
If I was semi retired and had guys bringing me chains to hand file.


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## StihlKiwi (May 28, 2013)

But wait, theres more.. Call in the next 30 minutes and we'll throw in a pack of files, a half eaten sandwich and a greasy rag that may or may not have been a t-shirt!



This thread reads like a TV infomercial don't ya think


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## Gologit (May 28, 2013)

StihlKiwi said:


> But wait, theres more.. Call in the next 30 minutes and we'll throw in a pack of files, a half eaten sandwich and a greasy rag that may or may not have been a t-shirt!
> 
> 
> 
> This thread reads like a TV infomercial don't ya think



Maybe...but since a paying sponsor and his product are being featured that's not a bad thing.

You get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?


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## HuskStihl (May 28, 2013)

roberte said:


> You know were I would use it.
> If I was semi retired and had guys bringing me chains to hand file.



I thought you were retired:msp_biggrin:



Gologit said:


> Maybe...but since a paying sponsor and his product are being featured that's not a bad thing.



Oops, checking the skies for musical hammers


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## Hinerman (May 28, 2013)

I guess I don't get it. You have to have spare bars for every size chain, mount vise to a spare board, mount board to a stable platform, move and remount the vise for different size bars. I guess if you are going to sharpen 20+ chains of each size it might work for you (and many of you might do that). Obviously some people like it. If I am missing something I apologize.


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## Philbert (May 28, 2013)

pavement99 said:


> Tree Machine thought it valuable that new, first-time buyers give the reports. Treestuff thanks those contributors for donating their time, images and feedback. Now onto the next part of the presentation...





HuskStihl said:


> If you get Bob, Randy (any of the "big three"), Glen, Shaun, Bitz, Rope, Pac, Jeff etc, etc,etc, or Philbert to say this is $108 well spent, then it is.



I think that I have a pretty good idea of what this product does, and just to re-state, looks like it could be a useful device for the right users*. So I am not asking to be included. But there have been several newer products that have been made available to be passed around among A.S. members for their input, comments, and feedback. I recall the Atop filing guide, some unusual file handles, PowerSharp chain, etc.

So a '_next part_' might be to create a list of interested 'product interviewers' who agree to give it a fair evaluation, post objective comments, and pass the device on to the next person on the list. Folks on the site will likely pay more attention to A.S. members they know. Just a suggestion.

*I am actually more impressed with the bar holding clamps, by the way - I think that _a lot_ of conventional filers could use those with their saws for tailgate sharpening. Could be more convenient than a machinists vice. I have only seen them in this thread.

Philbert


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## roberte (May 28, 2013)

Hinerman said:


> I guess I don't get it. You have to have spare bars for every size chain, mount vise to a spare board, mount board to a stable platform, move and remount the vise for different size bars. I guess if you are going to sharpen 20+ chains of each size it might work for you (and many of you might do that). Obviously some people like it. If I am missing something I apologize.




No your on point.


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## roberte (May 28, 2013)

HuskStihl said:


> I thought you were retired:msp_biggrin:
> 
> 
> 
> Oops, checking the skies for musical hammers




There's no retiring in my business. But thanks. I'm not even that old anyway.
In my mind I'm still 24 and bullet proof, even thou at 47 I know I'm not.


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## Gologit (May 28, 2013)

roberte said:


> There's no retiring in my business. But thanks. I'm not even that old anyway.
> In my mind I'm still 24 and bullet proof, even thou at 47 I know I'm not.



47? Pfffft.... you're just a pup. 47? I've got wedges older than that. :msp_biggrin:


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## roberte (May 28, 2013)

Gologit said:


> 47? Pfffft.... you're just a pup. 47? I've got wedges older than that. :msp_biggrin:



Yea, yea, pup, been listening to that crap for a while too.
We are as old or young as we want to be. Cutting helps me feel good about life.


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## StihlKiwi (May 28, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Maybe...but since a paying sponsor and his product are being featured that's not a bad thing.
> 
> You get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?



Not knocking the sponsor or his product, I'm sure it's ideal for some users. Just saying that the testimonials strike me as pretty damn cheesy.


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## nelson727 (Jun 5, 2013)

Had to read through the thread from the top again, yep I’m in the right place - a marketing thread!

“Oh shoot, maybe I’m kind of conning people!” No sure enough they said they asked
me if I would be a part of sharing what I thought about the Chainmeister. What they didn’t say is that I agreed as long as I could tell it how it was for me. When I first saw the CM I thought it was “an answer to a question that hadn’t been asked.” I do talk funny, don’t I?

I’ve always thought in terms of sharpening a chain on the saw for the life of the chain and if I were doing this in practice I wouldn’t need this tool. The only trouble was that in the days following first seeing videos of the CM in action I realized I wasn’t doing that. Instead I was throwing chains that couldn’t quickly be cleaned up on the saw in a box and never getting back to them.

Since my last post I have had this thought come back to me a few more times - I’m going to save hundreds of dollars in the next box or two of chain that I don’t give away.

View attachment 298736


One more thing I noticed, I started to touch up my big saws (two 28" and a 42") as I was putting them away and I thought, "Why don't I just lock them up in the CM vise for stability?" What a difference from just holding a saw with my elbows as I work it.


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## kevin bingham (Jun 5, 2013)

Philbert said:


> I
> 
> *I am actually more impressed with the bar holding clamps, by the way - I think that _a lot_ of conventional filers could use those with their saws for tailgate sharpening. Could be more convenient than a machinists vice. I have only seen them in this thread.
> 
> Philbert



I have a chainmeister, but really own two chains per saw at a time. I don't at the moment have a big pile of chains needing to be sharpened. Actually do have a pile of chains but don't have a saw they fit at the moment... Anyway I haven't really been able to incorporate the chainmeister at the moment to its full capabilities. It is a very well made tool. And it works exactly as described.

I think the real story for me here is these bar clamps. I can not believe they are not available anywhere else. There are the stump clamps... But who carries around a friggin stump. The chainsaw clamps are exactly what Everyone needs. I use it everyday now. I used to have a vice on my workbench that I would use but it is pretty unpractical. This is the real story that's going to come out of this project for most people. I really can't understand how these clamps have not been made before tree machine. I don't know how I worked on my saws before... Thanks!!!!


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## Tree Machine (Jun 6, 2013)

Greetings, everyone.

I have been asked by Treestuff to come in and contribute.


You're a tough crowd here in the Forestry and Logging Forum, but that is precisely why Treestuff decided the ChainMeister introduction thread would be started here. The device has been through rigors of development, redevelopment, refinement, testing and more testing.

As of this writing, the ChainMeister has not even been formally presented to the professional community. You guys are getting a pre-release preview, some time before the rest of the world gets the news. The ChainMeister has been recently made available, but those who have bought one have literally stumbled upon them at the treestuff webstore. The thought behind this thread was to have the earliest, new users of the ChainMeister to share their findings with some of the most highly experienced, seasoned professionals in the industry who've never seen it.

I all honesty, we really didn't know how that would go. Who knows what is the best way to approach introducing such a new and unfamiliar piece of gear? We chose to go where we would get an acute level of scrutiny, where judgement would be the highest, where acceptance would be the most difficult to achieve.

So thank you, Forestry and Logging Forum. You are the tough crowd Treestuff chose to share with first.
View attachment 298958


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## roberte (Jun 6, 2013)

Tree Machine said:


> Greetings, everyone.
> 
> I have been asked by Treestuff to come in and contribute.
> 
> ...



opcorn::greenchainsaw:


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## Tree Machine (Jun 6, 2013)

To best present what I have for you, I will politely ask to start a new thread, heavy in pictures and video. 

With permission to do this from the moderator, I will continue. I don't want to commit an infraction as I am representing treestuff.com


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## Philbert (Jun 6, 2013)

Please post a link to the new thread here so folks can follow it?

Thanks

Philbert


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## 2dogs (Jun 6, 2013)

More ChainMeister info? Haven't we had enough already. Yeah I know about sponsorship but why isn't this in the sponsored forum?

I have never seen any sponsor invade the F&L forum like this.


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## madhatte (Jun 6, 2013)

Tree Machine, you REALLY ought to seek sponsorship if you're going to discuss products. "Non-Sponsor Selling" is a bannable offense on this forum. I'd hate to see you get your wings clipped by a rule you already agreed to abide by when you clicked "Yes" to the Terms Of Use when you signed up here.


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## Tree Machine (Jun 7, 2013)

I tried to be clear that this is treestuff's product, that they are a sponsor here and I accepted their invitation to share some real inside scoop on this product.

But I will only do it if it is wanted and needed. Treestuff is just offering readers of this forum to have first news, it was intended as a respect thing. It is OK with me if we introduce it in the treestuff sponsor area. Maybe that would be better.

Phlbert, I will offer a link here if the request is cleared.


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## KiwiBro (Jun 7, 2013)

If there can be 100 channels on TV then I can't see why we can't have 50 different ways to sharpen a chain. Someone, somewhere is going to buy this device. Me, I will continue my crusade against complexity and thus refuse to buy something like this that to me has the potential to be used once or twice then gather dust in the back of the shed or cluttering my tool boxes without good reason.

But others can fill their boots for all I care. If it works for 'em and they get a good sharp chain then good on 'em.


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## madhatte (Jun 7, 2013)

Tree Machine said:


> I tried to be clear that this is treestuff's product, that they are a sponsor here and I accepted their invitation to share some real inside scoop on this product.



Ah. I suppose I already knew that, but forgot. Sometimes I get overwhelmed by walls of text. All's well; carry on smartly.


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## Tree Machine (Jun 7, 2013)

Opinion acknowledged, KiwiBro.

Assuming complexity, though, is an assumption. The intent of the device is to streamline and simplify a repetitive process.
I am aligned with your crusade against complexity.

Pulling a sharp chain off a chainsaw to put a dull chain back on so it can be sharpened, to me, is complexity. Why would anyone in his right mind remove a sharp chain from a saw and put a dull chain back on? Well, that's just the way it's been done since day one because there were no other option, short of mechanical grinder sharpening for those dull loops hanging on your bench.

Sharpening on the saw, in the field, nothing wrong with that except the chainsaw is decommissioned. I do this regularly, and both the saw and I are not working. On 14" chains that need a touchup, no problem. On 36" chains that got rocked out, you may be spending an hour of valuable worktime getting that chain back in usable form. I may lose 50- 100 dollars of income standing in one place instead of cutting, like I should be doing.

If I rock a chain, I have a spare bar and chain, all mounted up. I swap one for the other and get back to business. Now I have a sharp chain on the saw, dull chain mounted on the bar with the ChanMeister and I can sharpen that chain, free of the saw, when it is a more convenient moment, like during a break, or while eating a sandwich.

This simplifies my workflow greatly. I have not had to put a dull chain back on a chainsaw in quite a long time and I do not miss that a bit.

I also swap 24" and 36" bars between my big saw, as needed, the ChainMeister simplifying that and leaving the ChainMeistered bar and chain ready to be sharpened when the moment is convenient, and it is sharp and ready for action then when I need it.

The ChainMeister is always mounted to a bar and chain, it does not collect dust. Since it works with any pitch, gauge or length bar and chain, new options are available that weren't before. That's not complexity. The intent is simplification and streamlining of a repetitive task that we all face.


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## KiwiBro (Jun 7, 2013)

Perhaps complexity isn't the right word. Clutter might be more appropriate. I've got files for sharpening on the saws, grinder for off it. Anything else is clutter unless it replaces one or both of those options adequately. This device could slice bread and make the coffee for all the use it would be to me.

Now, if hand filling off the saw is somebody else's idea of a good night in then like I said in my post above, I'm glad it works for 'em and this device could be the bees knees for it.


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## Tree Machine (Jun 8, 2013)

KiwiBro said:


> Perhaps complexity isn't the right word. Clutter might be more appropriate. I've got files for sharpening on the saws, grinder for off it. Anything else is clutter unless it replaces one or both of those options adequately.



I've been down the road you're on, Kiwibro, had the grinder, a nice one by Stihl. I got fewer sharpenings during the life of a chain, the chain was never as sharp as I could get it by hand, the abrasive grinding wheel sent tiny dust particles in the air and on the bench and on the wall in back of the grinder, those machine-sharpened chains then won't take a hand file without ruining the file, yada yada, same reports as you'll see all over the internet. I got rid of the machine because to me it represented clutter, potential pulmonary problems, repetitive replacement costs of the worn out wheels, regular fine-tuning of the machine to keep consistency, and readjustment of the machine for the next chain if it was worn differently from the former chain. As time went on I was finding I was spending an amount of extra time to maintain the machine to maintain the chains. I assumed the machine would save me time, effort and money, which is why I bought it. I finally had to admit to myself that I was wrong in this assumption. It didn't meet my expectations in the real-life setting. Your results may vary.

You present an assumption of (clutter, complexity) based on, well, I don't know or claim to know your reasonings, but that's OK. Your system works for you. We all have to go down our own paths. Your system worked for me for awhile until after a great deal of actual, personal, first-hand experience I went back to hand-sharpening. 

I'm amongst the crowd that _knows_ you can get a chain sharper with a one dollar file by hand than with a machine. And like that crowd I hand filed, on the bar, on the saw. And I still do.

Nothing has changed, except now there is an *option*, not a replacement, to the way I have been doing it. Let's be very clear on that. The ChainMeister takes nothing away, doesn't require any real change as the hand-filer is still filing by hand. It just adds certain options that you employ only when the advantage serves you. So bottom line, you call it clutter, I call it options. An option is only viable if the option is somehow better than the norm.


With this device, from my own personal experience, it becomes more useful, and you find more uses for it the longer you have it. That's the general report treestuff is getting from others. And at this point I sincerely apologize that I have _not yet shared_ the options, advantages and efficiencies you can expect. All I have given is the 'cover of the book'.

I'd like to offer a picture and video based presentation on all that I know of this device. As of this time, a have only replied to responses. I've given nothing of value, and for that I am sorry.


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## Philbert (Jun 8, 2013)

Looooooooooong quotes!

It' NOT about filing vs grinding. It's NOT about filing off or on the saw. It is simply that there are other ways to file off the saw. Eg a chain vise - works with any gauge or length of loop. Or a Granberg and a scrap bar of the correct gauge - works with any length of loop.

I have been polite here but losing patience with you talking in circles around the issue. Tell us what a Chainmeister does that a filing vse does not. 

Philbert


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## treeslayer2003 (Jun 8, 2013)

perhaps this device could be useful for mechanical harvester chain? I cannot file on my bell, have to remove chain and file on a scrap bar in a vise. just a thought. now if ya invent something to straitin out all the bars I bent up, I want one.


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## KiwiBro (Jun 8, 2013)

Tree Machine said:


> I assumed the machine would save me time, effort and money, which is why I bought it. I finally had to admit to myself that I was wrong in this assumption. It didn't meet my expectations in the real-life setting. Your results may vary.
> 
> I'm amongst the crowd that _knows_ you can get a chain sharper with a one dollar file by hand than with a machine. And like that crowd I hand filed, on the bar, on the saw. And I still do.


A grinder saves time and not just any time but home time, family and friends time. The sort of time I put a huge value on. what's that worth to you, to those this device you espouse is pitched to? I'm not hand filing a bunch of chains each or every other night or telling the Missus I'll be late to that dinner date or can't pick the kids up from swim practise because I or someone in my crew rocked a few chains and I need to spend a ridiculous amount of time rehabilitating the chains by hand on my Chainmeister. This device strikes me as a solution either looking for a problem or creating more than it claims to solve. I guess I could use it as a learning tool though - when someone rocks a chain, I can whip out the Chainmeister and tell them to hand file the chain after work on their own time. I bet they'll be more careful next time around. although if they hit nails, staples, reinforcing rods, old bike parts, etc, etc hidden in the wood, well, I would have to offer to grind the chain for 'em.

Grind dust - yes, it aint good for you, I take precautions. You know that evil dinosaur juice you fuel your cars, trucks and...saws with is bad for you too, don't you? Shorter chain life - yes, no doubt about it. Enough to make it not worthwhile grinding - hell no. Hand filing ground chain - heck, I must be doing something wrong because I can touch up (all I want to be doing in the field on the client's or my time) ground chains without problem. Sharper by hand- yes. But my time and profitability isn't measure by how many pissing contests I can win about the sharpness of my chains. They are more than sharp enough to do a great, safe job.

My assumption on clutter is an inherent assumption that this device will not prove more valuable to me than a grinder and will gather dust on a wall in the shed or take up space being carted around in my tool boxes for no good reason. If anyone wants to send me one to test out, I'll eat my words and sing it's praises if it proves otherwise, but the people behind this device will have to prise the not inconsiderable $ out of my cold dead hands before I'm parting with a cent to purchase one.

Clearly, your mileage does vary. If it works for you, I'm happy you found a better-for-you way. why not put your grinder up for sale in the classifieds on this site?


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## Tree Machine (Jun 10, 2013)

*Moving on*

Kiwi bro, I see all your points clearly. What I don't get is you've expressed the importance of time, yet here you are sending negative energy out about some device you clearly have no interest in. I like your passion, though. Turned into a positive direction, it's what champions are made of.



> perhaps this device could be useful for mechanical harvester chain?


Slayer, I can only partially answer that. A harvester bar, I have never held one in my hands. The ChainMeister was designed around the mounting slot of chainsaw bars, and their chains. The sprocket on the ChainMeister has a slot whose width is .065, so it can take a chain with a driver gauge up to .063 It may be just a matter of swapping out the stock sprocket. It was not designed for harvester bars, but that does not mean it wouldn't work. No one has tried yet. 



> I have been polite here but losing patience with you talking in circles around the issue. Tell us what a Chainmeister does that a filing vise does not.


 I had begun a thread with 8 or 9 images over the first 4 posts, but the thread was pulled down without notice. I wrote the moderator, no reply. 

Generally, I write by posting pictures, I caption them, brief text, next picture. This is still the intent, just not in this thread.

May I ask, for my sake as well as the readership, what exactly do you mean by a chain vise? We're not talking about a filing jig. A chain vise (not bar vise) is something that squeezes and clamps the drive links, yes?, like the little holding device on a wheeled chain grinder, or like the former picture of the two chipper knives bolted together? I've seen a thread here somewhere at Arboristsite, on clamping the chain itself. I'm just not clear on what exactly I am comparing to. Googling 'filing vise' you get stump vises, an entirely different thing altogether, or devices that are made to clamp the driver links, like at this site where the chain vises range in price from $145 to $495. Again, though, a different yet somewhat related concept in that the goal is to securing a chainsaw chain so it can be sharpened.

The ChainMeister does not clamp the chain, nor does it clamp the bar. It is not intended to be a vise or clamp in any way. What it does is mount the chain on a bar and allows instant, precise tensioning of the chain, swift installation or removal of the chain from the bar and easy advancement of the chain along the length of the bar as needed. So far the ChainMeister has only been compared to other methods of hand filing, specifically, compared it to that of the chain being mounted, as traditionally, on a chainsaw.

I am glad to compare anything similar, but all the early patent/intellectual property work showed nothing remotely like it. The ChainMeister idea _started_ as a chain clamp, but evolved to move beyond the limitations of clamping the chain driver links themselves. If clamping the driver links was ideal, the idea would have stopped there.

If we are to compare products, let it be apples to apples. 

The ChainMeister can be used in conjunction with jaw vises, bar vises and any other chain sharpening jigs and chain sharpening guides, as well as bar-mounted mechanical grinders or rotary stone-type sharpeners.


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## Philbert (Jun 10, 2013)

http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/120500.htm

This is a thread (link above) where I have tried to 'collect' a number of chain vise ideas, including commercially available, improvised, and home made that have been mentioned here on A.S. in recent years.

Thank you for distinguishing the Chainmeister from these. 

If I understand you correctly, you are stating that tensioning the chain longitudinally along the bar is better for filing than securing the chain against lateral movement by clamping the drive links?

Philbert


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## Tree Machine (Jun 10, 2013)

*chain vise defined*

Excellent! Most helpful, Philbert. That thread answers the question of what exactly is meant by 'chain vise'. That is the thread I had seen and was referring to. Great examples of treeguy ingenuity. Inspiring.



> If I understand you correctly, you are stating that tensioning the chain longitudinally along the bar is better for filing than securing the chain against lateral movement by clamping the drive links?



No, I won't word it like that. For what those devices do, they do their job exactly as they should. I will point out that the one thing they do is the only thing they do. The ChainMeister offers more flexibility and options beyond just mounting a bar to a chain and stretching that chain to the perfect tension you desire. I've gotten a couple e-mails this week describing things I hadn't even thought of yet. I am counting on the community and their creativity to help find other unintended uses and bring it to its full potential as a useful tool in the saw professional's kit. The more benefits it can bring, the better the tool. I promise to share everything I personally have learned, as well as advantages coming in from others using the device.

Treestuff wants me to start the tell-all thread in their sponsor section as the perception of us invading this forum is not the kind of vibe they wish to project. I will post a link here when I get it going, and you will all be invited to be part.


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## kevin bingham (Jun 10, 2013)

Those chain vices are cool philbert. Where could you buy one of them? This does show to me that there is a problem and also that the chainmeister is a solution to that problem. It is also the only solution to that problem that is available to purchase at a major arborist supply company. It's made well, it's easy to use.


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## Philbert (Jun 10, 2013)

kevin bingham said:


> Those chain vices are cool philbert. Where could you buy one of them? This does show to me that there is a problem and also that the chainmeister is a solution to that problem. It is also the only solution to that problem that is available to purchase at a major arborist supply company. It's made well, it's easy to use.



If I was not clear in any of my comments Kevin, I agree that it looks like a well thought out and well made product. If it works for someone, that is great. There are lots of ways to sharpen chains, and folks have to find one that woks for them.

I disagree that it is the only way to sharpen off of the saw. Many of these methods have been mentioned in this thread and others. So I have objected to those comments and distractions into the 'filing-vs-grinding' debate which is irrelevant - this is a filing tool (although I am interested in hearing about the other applications Tree Machine mentioned).

As for the filing vises, many are home made, but fairly simple to make. Some guys are content with a machinist's vise or antique filing vise. The Logosol is still commercially available. The Oregon and STIHL FG are NLA, but highly prized. The Granberg type filing jigs (used with a scrap bar) are, of course, widely available .

Lots of options, including the Chainmeister. If you use one I am sure that people here would like to hear your experience.

Philbert


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## Tree Machine (Jun 11, 2013)

*Eureka moment!*

Philbert, you are so right on. I am really excited that these unique devices, both historic and current, are coming to the surface.

We are onto a problem that has been around a long time, since the beginning of the chainsaw. It may have seemed I was 'talking in circles' earlier, but the result is that _here and now_ we are merging old solutions and new, and putting it out in public for all to see and sort out. This is as much research right now as anything. Professor Philbert, thank you so much for your work in collecting the data so far. 

In the treestuff sponsor thread I will share with you a number of chain clamp devices from my earliest work on this project. These were where the ChainMeister idea began its journey. The first three prototypes, the earliest inception versions, are much uglier than any of the chain clamps shown in Philbert's chain clamp thread, though prototype #3 was resourceful enough that I will have to add it to that thread. And this one, too. I laugh at this now, but it really worked well from having been pulled out of the scrap pile and modified with two bolts. I stuffed a strip of neoprene deep in the hinge to allow it to 'spring' open. The bolts are to keep it from opening too far. Check it out:

View attachment 299671


As well, I will post this one, too, at the the chain clamp thread. 
It came out of the patent archives, dated August 29, 1978








View attachment 299663


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## imagineero (Jun 11, 2013)

It's a nicely made device, It just seems to me that it creates another problem for each one it solves. 

If you're a tree service with a bunch of saws with all different bars, then you've got to have a spare bar for each saw and swap the device over etc

If you're a guy with only a couple saws, then you probably don't go through a bunch of chains, and it's probably just as quick to do them on the saw in a vice

If you go through so many chains each day that putting them back on the saw to sharpen is a major inconvenience, then you're probably going to use a grinder

If you're after true precision ie. the race chain/square file crowd, then this device won't hold the chain securely enough for you

etc etc... I think there would be a much bigger market for a device like the older style chainsaw vices - basically a bar with a sprocket at each end that can be quickly clamped/unclamped. A device like that has much more appeal to a wider variety of people. You can put any chain size on it without screwing around, and it holds the chain very securely. 

This chainmeister thing seems to be just another gadget waiting to get lost in the kitchen drawer with the egg slicer, apple corer, lemon zester, etc. Probably sell a few to the types of guys that like to collect gadgets, but it's not going to be a tool for the working man. 

Shaun


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## KiwiBro (Jun 11, 2013)

Tree Machine said:


> Kiwi bro, I see all your points clearly. What I don't get is you've expressed the importance of time, yet here you are sending negative energy out about some device you clearly have no interest in. I like your passion, though. Turned into a positive direction, it's what champions are made of.


You, frankly, haven't earned the right to question what I or anyone on this site does by choice with any portion of our leisure time, be that perusing this website, cross dressing, putting blue rinse through our hair or whatever it happens to be. I find it remarkable, and somewhat offensive, someone who falsely seeks to assert that a negative opinion of this device makes the poster a negative person, either isn't willing or able, to acknowledge the inherent negativity in such a stance.

Are you not here to help educate potential buyers about this device? Buyers that could quite easily have the same questions and negative opinions as I and many others. How does playing the man and not the ball like you're doing when I tender honestly held negative opinions of this device, jive with


Tree Machine said:


> You're a tough crowd here in the Forestry and Logging Forum, but that is precisely why Treestuff decided the ChainMeister introduction thread would be started here.


 ?

If my questioning offends anyone, I apologise because that's not the intention. Maybe Kiwi's are built differently than Americans. Here, if someone has an honestly held opinion, regardless of it being a good or bad one, we put it out there so it can be addressed and everyone learns more as a result, ourselves included. The flip side of this stance however is when we see and use a good product, everyone gets to learn about it.

What better review for potential buyers than a glowing review from someone like me who was critical of the merits of this device, after you guys send me one to try. Tell you what, you guys pay and if I like it, I'll pay you back and let everyone reading this thread know how wonderful it is. If you can win me over, it's a good product. But be prepared for bad press too, if my suspicions are confirmed. In other words, but put a little bluntly, put up (to me or another critic in this thread) or confirm to everyone this thread is simply an astro-turfing infomercial masquerading as a genuine attempt to engage the "tough crowd here in the Forestry and Logging Forum".


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## jrcat (Jun 11, 2013)

Well put KiwiBro


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## KiwiBro (Jun 11, 2013)

jrcat said:


> Well put KiwiBro



Thanks jrcat.


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## roberte (Jun 11, 2013)

I would test drive it also, with the same conditions laid out by kiwibro.


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## madhatte (Jun 12, 2013)

I don't think I'll ever try to write a big reply on my phone again. Alas, my crowning wisdom is lost. Summary: see the thread on the Timberline chain jig for an example of how we do "Constructive Criticism" around here. I think we covered a lot of ground, there was no name-calling, and some real work got done. That's what I hope will happen here, as well.


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## StihlKiwi (Jun 12, 2013)

KiwiBro said:


> You, frankly, haven't earned the right to question what I or anyone on this site does by choice with any portion of our leisure time, be that perusing this website, cross dressing, putting blue rinse through our hair or whatever it happens to be. I find it remarkable, and somewhat offensive, someone who falsely seeks to assert that a negative opinion of this device makes the poster a negative person, either isn't willing or able, to acknowledge the inherent negativity in such a stance.
> 
> Are you not here to help educate potential buyers about this device? Buyers that could quite easily have the same questions and negative opinions as I and many others. How does playing the man and not the ball like you're doing when I tender honestly held negative opinions of this device, jive with ?
> 
> ...



spot on


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## Red Amor (Jun 12, 2013)

I have an old blacksmiths vice at my work bench I clamp a saw n bar in this and hand file my chains
I also have an old bar I clamp in vice and slip chain in and the loop that hangs down under the bar I have a rod with a hook in one end and the other end goes in a board which I stand on with one foot to out enough tension on the chain to hold it nice n firm in bar while I sharpen 
Its very simple very quick to move a new bunch of teeth into position and it cost nothing
I have a neat little vice that clamps to the coaming on my flat tray and holds saw at a great height to sharpen in the field 
credit to the maker of the opps flash jig its well made no doubt about it but its mot for me and it would seem not for many others but it will be cockahoo for some 
some neat new flash gizzmoes are just a bit time consuming for some of us 
good luck with it yeah 
thankyou for showing it to us


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## imagineero (Jun 12, 2013)

madhatte said:


> Summary: see the thread on the Timberline chain jig for an example of how we do "Constructive Criticism" around here.



I had a pretty good search, and found a few threads on this jig, but I'm guessing you mean this one?

http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/180488.htm

Shaun


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## madhatte (Jun 12, 2013)

That's the one!


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## Tree Machine (Jun 13, 2013)

*The collection grows*



> I had a pretty good search, and found a few threads on this jig, but I'm guessing you mean this one?
> 
> New Chain Sharpener


Good search, Imagineero!

View attachment 299898


Yes, good addition to this thread.

I will take the plunge and buy one of these. My head always goes to looking at any tool, and asking myself, how I can make that tool better? or how can I use this in a non-traditional way? This is a sick illness, drives my wife nuts.

Replacing the crank handle with a cordless drill, this could be the equivalent of a wheeled grinder in sharpening speed, except that the heat would be kept low on the carbide cutter (and gullet) and the tooth should not get that surface blueing 'heat treatment' that you get with high-speed wheeled grinders. Or burrs. But I don't know, this is speculation at this point. There is only one way to find out.

The cost on this thing is $125. *Their warranty is lifetime*. Let's say, for instance, that you're on the leading edge of your career. Here's a fer example

You're 24 and you have the wisdom to invest in the tools up front that you will need for your entire career, not just consumables. Tools that will last. You know you've gotta sharpen chain, you have learned from members of Arboristsite that sharpness of chain is central in importance and directly linked to joy. You decide which chain sharpening accessories to purchase up front for the long run, to create for yourself an _integrated system_ that allows you, repetitively, over the next 25 years, to manage the task of keeping all your chains sharpened to as near perfection as you can reach, as well as swiftly.

Would the 24 year-old buy a Timberline chainsaw sharpener? Hmmmm, $125 over 25 years, simple math here, guys, 5 bucks a year. You just have to pay all of it up front.

Not everything has a lifetime guarantee. In my book, that is significant. All I have to do is not lose it.

Given that when I buy gear, by the end of the month I have lost the thought of the money spent and am focussed on how the device is improving the way I climb, cut or do business. If it helps out regularly, then it is worth the $whatever cost I had to 'invest' in it. It would have to be entirely useless to not be worth 5 bucks per year. Say you make 60 dollars an hour as an owner operator, a dollar a minute. Will this device save you five minutes along the way, sometime during the year? If so, it has paid it's rent, has given you return on investment, so to speak.

If it saves you two hours and 5 minutes sometime that first year, it has paid itself off.

These are _hypothetical number-crunch models_, and the numbers, very simply stated, show this device, at this price, to hold a good deal of promise of true value.

I only have about twelve and a half more years of saw slinging, so I will be doing a rent-to-own for ten dollars per year, prepaid up front.

I have never used a filing guide or jig of any type, so I could be a good guinea pig for this one, having had nothing to compare it to that would bias the experience. I can be completely objective.


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## Tree Machine (Jun 13, 2013)

*I am sorry. Jim*



madhatte said:


> I don't think I'll ever try to write a big reply on my phone again. Alas, my crowning wisdom is lost.



Too bad. An inspired thought and an effort to express it, and in a nano-instant, it is stolen from the readership Madhatte, whatever it was you were going to say, I am still all ears.

Thank you all, by the way, for your input.

You, too, Kiwibro, I hold no problem with you, I looked back and can see my fault at work, you are right, I am a guest here. And I need to stay in touch with that.

I also need to value all opinions, knowing that all the opinions, at this time in history, are not founded on actual, hands-on experience. Nor has there been any presentation by me at all yet. So there's very little to go on. That's where things start, though.


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## Tree Machine (Jun 18, 2013)

*What do we call this?*



> What better review for potential buyers than a glowing review from someone like me who was critical of the merits of this device, after you guys send me one to try. Tell you what, you guys pay and if I like it, I'll pay you back and let everyone reading this thread know how wonderful it is



Currently being discussed.
Will report back on this very soon.


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## HuskStihl (Jun 18, 2013)

imagineero said:


> This chainmeister thing seems to be just another gadget waiting to get lost in the kitchen drawer with the egg slicer, apple corer, *lemon zester*, etc. Probably sell a few to the types of guys that like to collect gadgets, but it's not going to be a tool for the working man.
> 
> Shaun



You are not seriously suggesting that a lemon zester is *not* a tool for the working man?!


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## roberte (Jun 18, 2013)

HuskStihl said:


> You are not seriously suggesting that a lemon zester is *not* a tool for the working man?!



Everything has a place, even a lemon zester, there grate.
Now as for the $108 gadget.....


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## HuskStihl (Jun 18, 2013)

roberte said:


> Everything has a place, even a lemon zester.



I formally apologize for ever thinking you were an uncultured barbarian!


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## roberte (Jun 18, 2013)

HuskStihl said:


> I formally apologize for ever thinking you were an uncultured barbarian!



No need to be sorry ur half right, about being a barbarian


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## Tree Machine (Jun 19, 2013)

I like the metaphor. To some this would say the ChainMeister will be about as useful as a lemon zester.

The lemon zester is only used _regularly_ by those whose specialty can benefit from it.
To anyone who does not consume chains, the ChainMeister may as well be a lemon zester.

The ChainMeister was not designed and built for the casual user. This is professional-level gear, made to be a specialty item to perform a specialty task. Clearly not built for the average guy.

You guys do know that you're not average, right? This is a top-level community in our overall industry. You're not prima donnas. You're some of the best saw talent anywhere. I am listening closely to you.

As far as sending a unit out for demo, I've pulled together a meeting to discuss this. I don't make these decisions. It was requested from you guys, so I will bring it up as a serious consideration and will get back to you very soon.


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## roberte (Jun 19, 2013)

Tree Machine said:


> I like the metaphor. To some this would say the ChainMeister will be about as useful as a lemon zester.
> 
> The lemon zester is only used _regularly_ by those whose specialty can benefit from it.
> To anyone who does not consume chains, the ChainMeister may as well be a lemon zester.
> ...





It could have just as easily been a mandolin instead of a lemon zester.
My first comment on this still stands. 
Your asking us what do we think, and your getting it. Me I think I've been minmally supportive. 

If you can swing I would like a test drive. So would a couple other guys I'm sure.


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## Tree Machine (Jun 20, 2013)

See, this is what we did during the development of the ChainMeister, we would send prototype units to a few key guys.
Gerald Beranek got two versions along the way. I see him at TCIA Expos.

The ChainMeister was looked at by hundreds of saw users along the path of it's development.
We sent one to Australia a year ago, but that was my idea and I had to pay for it. The idea was to pass it around the continent.

I have to quote a couple guys, early, who said


> it becomes more useful the longer you use it.



This device was designed to last a long, long time *and not wear out*. It is meant to be integrated into the chain management of the serious professional saw user, to be a useful addition to the specialized tools in the sharpening kit.

If you have it for a couple weeks, how will you ever derive the long-term benefits and advantages?
Convenience in certain moments, and time savings whenever it is employed.

Honestly, a trial period is going to tell you this, the device is well-built and does exactly what it is claimed to do. 

It will cost me $108, plus shipping to hear that from you guys. I don't want to 'buy' your positive feedback, that is not ethical. It would be like bribing you to get a good review. I want this device to stand on its own merit, OK?

Personally, I am with you in thinking it is a good idea to pass one around. I don't know if you caught this earlier in the thread, but the ChainMeister has not yet been released to the public. It has been a crowd-source project the whole way, and *you guys* are the final 'committee' before launch. I am literally here asking you all permission if it is OK to release this to our professional communities. It is my acknowledgement of _your collective importance_, enough to be directly included, and made aware, prior to the rest of the world seeing it. You are the final tribal council, I am not kidding.

As a crowdsource project specific to our industries, here I am talking face-to-face with the industry I personally chose to talk with.

And the industry says they want to pass a ChainMeister around amongst themselves.

I can pitch that.

Give me another day.


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## Tree Machine (Jun 21, 2013)

*promo gear or gift?*

If I was going to offer up a piece of gear to 'get' something in return, I would go about it differently.

I would first offer whatever piece it is, _free to the universe_ (i.e. never expecting to ever get it back). I would put it out there, as a gift with positive intent. I would tell the recipient any projected goals around the device, then hand it over, no obligations, no expectations. That is the spirit of a gift. Karma takes over. If the goal is meant to be, eventually it will be.

If I hold the recipient to a promise of something, then it is a trade, a negotiation. A fabricated, set-up to get someone to say what I want them to say. Ha, ha, I would be a complete idiot to think I have any sway over anyone's behavoiur other than my own. I don't want that kind of relationship with anyone, though I try with my wife now and again, just doesn't work.

All the workings of Tree Machine's life revolve around the theme of win/win. 
Not competition.
Intention for whomever I connect with to come out better than before.
If I help other people win, I win myself, almost predictably.
This is a highly sustainable life-model, and that is what I bring to the table.
There is no need to fear me. I do not seek wins at others' expense. That to me, is asking for a train wreck.

We are all in this together. I hope this means something to you.

So, in the spirit of the gift, long term goal of helping Treestuff sell a kajillion devices, I have a thought on how to create a real-life example. I'll be back with you shortly.


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## Tree Machine (Jul 7, 2013)

*Bar vise promotion*

This is how I would go about


> So, in the spirit of the gift, long term goal of helping Treestuff sell a kajillion devices, I have a thought on how to create a real-life example.



First, 


> I would tell the recipient any projected goals around the device, then hand it over, no obligations, no expectations. That is the spirit of a gift. Karma takes over.


First, I would decide who the recipient would be, and would write them a handwritten letter. For impact, I might write it on fluorescent green paper.
View attachment 303515

View attachment 303516

View attachment 303517


I would tell the recipient the goal: 

"Hey, Philbert. Treestuff wants to sell a kajillion of these new bar clamps. If you like them and find that they are an advantage to your system, then please, don't hesitate let the community know your feelings."

Then, in the spirit of the gift, I let the black, painted bar clamp and the stainless steel bar clamp go, never expecting them to be returned, and I have no _expectations_, now, or ever of the recipient.

If Philbert wishes to share his personal experience with the community, that is up to him how and when he goes about it, if at all.


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## Tree Machine (Jul 7, 2013)

If I actually wanted something in return, I would be very clear on that.
That's a trade.

View attachment 303522


View attachment 303523


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## Tree Machine (Jul 7, 2013)

For the guys who want to test drive this device, the device would be put out on loan.

I don't loan out tools.


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## Tree Machine (Jul 7, 2013)

I had two ChainMeister units, a zinc-galvanized model and one of stainless steel.

I traded my stainless model for one of those Timberline sharpening systems, so I don't have an extra to loan out, even if I wanted to.

You see, I would have to buy one to get it out there to be passed around. Treestuff would also have to buy you one. They have a display model at the shop, but no hand-outs.
The manufacturer made no 'extras', no production overrun.

I have all the prototypes, and they are interesting and functional, but not to the exceptional degree like that of the commercially available ChainMeister.
These stay in the collection.


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## Tree Machine (Jul 7, 2013)

Also, the guys who have decided this device is not for them, I respect your opinion. It may very well be of little advantage to you.

For the guys whose sharpening duties involve juggling numerous chains throughout any given week, this may be the cat's meow.


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## Tree Machine (Jul 7, 2013)

*files box*

I would like to share a photo with all of you. I took this awhile back. It has nothing to do with the ChainMeister, except that like the ChainMeister, the actual files are a part of my overall sharpening system.

I use 4 sizes of files to cover the two sizes of chain I am currently running.

View attachment 303548


The picture is of the plastic storage box. My four boxes of files fit very well inside it. Note the gasket running around the perimeter? And the locking cam latches? This baby is waterproof, and it will not spill your files if it takes a fall off your shelf and hits the floor. I think would be good, also, in coastal areas.

Treestuff does not sell these, but Bass Pro shops does, as well as many sporting goods or department stores that host a fishing department. The manufacturer name is Plano and it can be gotten at a really reasonable price.


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## Philbert (Jul 7, 2013)

Tree Machine said:


> "Hey, Philbert. Treestuff wants to sell a kajillion of these new bar clamps. If you like them and find that they are an advantage to your system, then please, don't hesitate let the community know your feelings." . . . .If Philbert wishes to share his personal experience with the community, that is up to him how and when he goes about it, if at all.



Since methods of clamping a guide bar for filing chain is really a separate issue from tensioning the chain, I started a new thread to discuss the clamps (samples? prototypes?) that Tree Machine sent:

http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/240030.htm#post4408158

Philbert


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## roberte (Jul 7, 2013)

A chainmiester to a bar clamp? What a bait and switch. 
I guess I don't understand.
Bunch of balogna over stuff most of us have, a vise and a saw.


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## ptjeep (Jul 7, 2013)

Regarding the chain meister tensioning device,,,,,,, they are a very handy tool to have if you have multable chains to sharpen at one time. After seeing this product a couple years ago, i decided to build my own. Its very crude compared to whats available here for sale but it works. I sharpen chains for a friend of mine who owns a landscaping company, i usually get 20-30 chains at a time. They are usually all very rough so they go to the grinder but i dont care for the way my grinder does rakers. This is where the chainmeister comes in handy. Separate the chains, grab a bar for each group, slap the chain meister on a bar and file away, with no power head in the way. Very very efficient! If you come back from cutting with two or three dull chains of the same size, you could throw this thing in a vise and be done in a hurry.

Just my $0.02


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## WhistlePunk99 (Jul 7, 2013)

*?*

The idea is like alot of them,ends up being more work then having extra chains and using a good quality grinder at the end of the work week.


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## Philbert (Jul 13, 2013)

Tree Machine said:


> To best present what I have for you, I will politely ask to start a new thread, heavy in pictures and video.



For those interested: http://www.arboristsite.com/treestuff-com/239225.htm

Philbert


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## Tree Machine (Jul 13, 2013)

Thank you for the link, Philbert. I am working up a more formal presentation in that thread.


*This* thread has been very valuable to us. Normally I will take blind criticism with the value of bathroom stall graffiti. However, even though many opinions expressed here are based on never having held or used the new device and no actual direct experience, those opinions still matter. They matter very much to us. They are 'first impressions' and it has been said that first impressions are everything.

Of the hundreds of arborists, loggers and foresters who have seen and touched this device throughout its development, their first impressions were markedly different. The value here is that everyone's collective opinions are letting us view this project through a much wider lens.


We will eventually close this thread, but not until everyone has had their say. And since these are your halls, I will ask permission before asking a moderator to close it down. Or maybe we won't close this thread. Depends how you feel about that.


As far as the ChainMeister thread Philbert has posted above, that is in Treestuff's sponsor section. They want a clear, complete, uncluttered presentation on this device, beginning-to-end and just to let you know up-front, it is not a discussion thread (yet). It will be _an online presentation_ that, at the conclusion, will be opened to public discussion. Any post until that time will be deleted by a moderator. This is not censorship, it is a desired presentation format at the request of the sponsor. 

THIS thread is a public discussion, and again I truly thank all those who have contributed.


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## roberte (Jul 13, 2013)

:msp_bored::deadhorse::yawn::talktohand:


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## 2dogs (Jul 13, 2013)

roberte said:


> :msp_bored::deadhorse::yawn::talktohand:



+1


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## StihlKiwi (Jul 13, 2013)

Tree Machine said:


> Thank you for the link, Philbert. I am working up a more formal presentation in that thread.
> 
> 
> *This* thread has been very valuable to us. Normally I will take blind criticism with the value of bathroom stall graffiti. However, even though many opinions expressed here are based on never having held or used the new device and no actual direct experience, those opinions still matter. They matter very much to us. They are 'first impressions' and it has been said that first impressions are everything.
> ...




Are you a site sponsor?


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## Tree Machine (Jul 13, 2013)

StihlKiwi said:


> Are you a site sponsor?



Me? no. I am an Arborist.


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## KiwiBro (Jul 31, 2013)

Tree Machine said:


> I would like to share a photo with all of you. I took this awhile back. It has nothing to do with the ChainMeister, except that like the ChainMeister, the actual files are a part of my overall sharpening system.
> 
> I use 4 sizes of files to cover the two sizes of chain I am currently running.
> 
> ...



Thanks. Looks useful. It looks like the compartments can be set up individually to suit a users requirements. I'm wondering how this would go with files and differing sizes of straps/presets/etc? Are there any gaps in the compartments that such little items will slip through? If not, it could be a good buy for a file/repair parts storage box.


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