# Whats The Best Way To Cull Some Trees



## BRICH60 (Jan 31, 2008)

HEY GUYS, JUST JOINED LOOKING FORWARD TO LEARNING FROM YOU.- HERES MY QUESTION- I NEED TO CULL SOME BEECH (PRIMARILY) TREES AND A FEW OTHER SPECIES FROM MY 80 ACRES IN ORDER TO OPEN UP THE CANOPY FOR SOME SMALLER, MORE VAULABLE TREES. SOME ARE GOOD SIZE AND I REALLY DO NOT WANT TO CUT THEM DOWN UNLESS I HAVE TOO MANY TO CUT, AND DON`T WANT THE GROUND MESS, PLUS WANT TO AVOID DAMAGE TO OTHER GOOD( OAK) TREES IN FELLING THEM.

HAVE TRIED GIRDLING AND HERBICIDE INJECTIONS AND NIETHER ONE HAS WORKED WELL. THOSE BEECH TREES SEEM TO BE VERY HARD TO KILL OFF. ANYBODY GOT ANY SUGGESTIONS OR A TACTIC THAT HAS WORKED FOR THEM? LET ME KNOW.


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## Burvol (Jan 31, 2008)

BRICH60 said:


> HEY GUYS, JUST JOINED LOOKING FORWARD TO LEARNING FROM YOU.- HERES MY QUESTION- I NEED TO CULL SOME BEECH (PRIMARILY) TREES AND A FEW OTHER SPECIES FROM MY 80 ACRES IN ORDER TO OPEN UP THE CANOPY FOR SOME SMALLER, MORE VAULABLE TREES. SOME ARE GOOD SIZE AND I REALLY DO NOT WANT TO CUT THEM DOWN UNLESS I HAVE TOO MANY TO CUT, AND DON`T WANT THE GROUND MESS, PLUS WANT TO AVOID DAMAGE TO OTHER GOOD( OAK) TREES IN FELLING THEM.
> 
> HAVE TRIED GIRDLING AND HERBICIDE INJECTIONS AND NIETHER ONE HAS WORKED WELL. THOSE BEECH TREES SEEM TO BE VERY HARD TO KILL OFF. ANYBODY GOT ANY SUGGESTIONS OR A TACTIC THAT HAS WORKED FOR THEM? LET ME KNOW.



Well if you kill them, they will eventually fall down.


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## BostonBull (Jan 31, 2008)

Beech trees to me are just the opposite, they are very sensitive trees, especially in the root zone. 

Excavate some of the roots, pour TONS of salt on the roots, apply crazy amounts of lime to the soil. Theres plenty of ways to kill them, but like was said above they are going to fall eventually. And once they are dead and still standing they become a hazard to be around.

Hire a climber to drop them, and leave the mess for the forest to use. Spread it out so there isnt huge piles. it will all go to good use on the forest floor.


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## cntrybo2 (Jan 31, 2008)

Honestly it sounds to me like your really not sure how many trees to remove. This is more of a forestry question rather than an arboricultural question. Speaking as a consulting forester i would hire a forester or work with your county forester to really evaluate your stand and determine the best number of trees to remove as well as the best method. honestly, you could be felling trees and allow them to rott when you could be reaping a monetary return. Granted beech isnt the best saw timber wood but it can definately be sold as railroad ties and or pulpwood. just my two pennies!


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## palogger (Jan 31, 2008)

if u burn wood beech is great firewood


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## Ed*L (Feb 1, 2008)

As has been said, get a forrester in there to help you! It sounds like you are very unsure as to what proper forrestry management is all about. Keep hacking away and you will do way more harm than good in your woodlot. Standing dead and dying trees are an invation for trouble.
Sooner or later any tree you kill will end up on the ground, there will be a "ground mess" any way you look at it. It's better to fell the tree where you want it than have mother nature put it where she wants it. The trees you want to protect will be damaged by your dead trees falling, there is no guarantee that when they fall they won't snag in other healthy trees and create an even more dangerous condition for removal.

Ed


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## BRICH60 (Feb 1, 2008)

HERE`S WHAT HAPPENED-WHEN I PURCHASED THE PROPERTY IT HAD BEEN LOGGED A FEW YEARS BEFORE. IT APPEARS THE LOGGERS TOOK ONLY THE PROFITABLE TREES AND LEFT MANY BEECH TREES AND OTHER UNDESIREABLE TREES UNTOUCHED. WELL NOW THE BEECH TREES ARE ENJOYING A 15 YEAR HEIGHT ADVANTAGE OVER THE NEW GROWTH OF THE MORE VAULABLE TREES.

I REALIZE THAT THE TREES WILL EVENTUALLY FALL, BUT IN THE YEARS IT TAKES THE TREE TO FALL OVER, MANY OT THE SURROUNDING TREES WILL BE LARGE ENOUGH TO WHERE IT DOES NOT KNOCK THEM OVER OR BEND THEM. ALSO, THE FORREST FLOOR WILL NOT BE LITTERED WITH HUNDREDS OF BEECH TREES AT ONCE, MAKING WALKING AROUND ALOT EASIER.

THE PROBLEM STEMS FROM IMPROPER LOGGING TECHNIQUES IN THE FIRST PLACE. THE PREVIOUS OWNER SHOULD HAVE DEMANDED THAT THE BEECH TREES BE CUT IN PROPORTION WITH ALL THE OTHERS, WETHER THEY WERE TAKEN TO THE MILL OR LEFT ON THE GROUND.

AGAIN ANY INSIGHT WILL BE APPRECIATED.


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## TreeWizard (Feb 1, 2008)

I've been cleaning the woods and cutting down beech for firewood. If you paint 48% glyphosphate on the stump right after it is cut, it will kill the root sucker trees that have started to grow and will keep new suckers from starting.

It's a lot of work but if you just girdle the tree you will get new growth off the roots and in a number of years the beech will be thicker than they are now.

This method has been recommended by Cornell and the U of W Virginia.


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## BIG JAKE (Feb 1, 2008)

TreeWizard said:


> I've been cleaning the woods and cutting down beech for firewood. If you paint 48% glyphosphate on the stump right after it is cut, it will kill the root sucker trees that have started to grow and will keep new suckers from starting.
> 
> It's a lot of work but if you just girdle the tree you will get new growth off the roots and in a number of years the beech will be thicker than they are now.
> 
> This method has been recommended by Cornell and the U of W Virginia.



Tree will that also work on elm stumps? If so what is trade name or where can I obtain that?


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## ATH (Feb 1, 2008)

Hi, I am a forester  

Big beech tend to be hollow, so it is a good idea to do what you are asking about...

I think girdling is the better thing to do than dropping them. The damage is generally very minimal as they fall down in small chunks ard are punky. Girdling is also a lot faster and safer (especially if the trees are hollow). As for firewood...on 80 acres, you have more than enough.

Girdling will work very well on these. Just make sure that the cut goes all the way through the bark, all the way around the tree. Two cuts about 3" apart is even better.

What herbicide are you using? Try Tordon or Garlon will work best. Just put a little squirt in the girdle. Glyphosate (Round-up) will work in high concentrate will work like Tree Wizard said, but it is designed to be taken in through the leaves, so it is generally a little less effective.


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## TreeWizard (Feb 1, 2008)

Jake: it will work on any tree that suckers off the roots, I don't believe Elm trees regenerate that way.


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## ATH (Feb 1, 2008)

Elm does not root sucker. However herbicide on the stump will keep the stumps from sprouting. Like Tree Wiz said, treat right after it is cut. The labels will say within 2-3 hours. In fact though effectivness drops quickly as you get to 30 minutes. Cut-treat-cut the next tree. Don't cut, cut, cut, cut, treat, treat, treat....


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## StihlRockin' (Feb 3, 2008)

I like the idea of girdling. The tree still stands leaving something for the wildlife to be involved in: homes and feed spots for porcupine, squirrels, wood peckers, birds and raccoons. Wildlife needs hollow trees.

*Stihl*Rockin'


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## BRICH60 (Feb 4, 2008)

ATH said:


> Hi, I am a forester
> 
> Big beech tend to be hollow, so it is a good idea to do what you are asking about...
> 
> ...



I`ve tried girdling and have had poor results. How far into the tree should I make my cuts?


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## ATH (Feb 4, 2008)

Make sure you go all the way through the bark all the way around the tree - that will be pretty shallow on beech. Make sure the rings connect.

Some trees will remain green for a year or two because the sapwood is still in tact, but they are well on their way to being gone (kinda like a Christmas tree that doesn't know it is dead yet...).

I'd do 2 cuts (3" apart) on every tree. Like was said above, a little herbicide will help finish the job. I have seen double girdles work very well on everything except silver maple and cottonwood where it is maybe 50% effective.


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## Brushwacker (Feb 4, 2008)

I've girdeled trees that survived many years. For better results I cut 2 rings around several inches apart , and then chip out the bark and cambium. Be sure to go plenty deep.
If you use Tordon you can end up killing the trees you want to save if their root systems intertwine with the cull tree. The instructions use to say stay something like 30 feet away from anything you do not want to kill with Tordon. I am not a chemical expert ,don't know about the other chemicals, but make sure you read the instructions before applying any chemicals.
I also reccomend consulting a forester. You may have a respectable sale on cull logs. He can cue you in on killing the unwanted stuff with minimumal damage to the rest. I imagine some consulting foresters would apply chemicals and provide other services for reasonable charges.
In IN state district foresters used to come out and give free advice.


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## Mark Currie (Feb 5, 2008)

BIG JAKE said:


> Tree will that also work on elm stumps? If so what is trade name or where can I obtain that?



Glyphosate = RoundUp = Vision (forestery application). Monsanto no longer holds the patent on it, so there are probably tons more names out there now. Roundup and Vision are the exact same thing though, the only real difference is that you probably need a pesticide licence (depending on the area of course) to apply Vision, whereas Roundup can be bought at most lawn/garden centres. At least that's the way it is here.

It's used here in softwood plantations, as hardwood control/management. I cringe at the thought of it though, but totally different reasons.  Sprayed in the early fall, before the leaves start to change, it'll kill anything and everything with leaves (thus the term broad-spectrum herbicide).

Here's an interesting article from the University of Washington, on the control of woody plants, stumps and trees. Different applications are listed as well as different products. There are some charts at the bottom, listing different tree species and what treatment is best (or worst) for them.

http://cru.cahe.wsu.edu/CEPublications/eb1551/eb1551.html

Mark


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## cntrybo2 (Oct 18, 2009)

ATH, why would you ever as a forester recommend not capitalizing on the revenue from the property? Maybe this is just a different strokes for different folks question, but I couldn't imagine ever telling a landowner to kill trees and let them die on the stump for the balance of 80 acres. Even if the trees are hollow they can still be marketted as hardwood pulpwood which in my area is still bringing a decent (definately not great) price. As for wildlife benefit, it sounds like this is a cutover now, there are no wildlife habitat deficientcies with a 3+ year cut-over. 

Definatley not trying to step on toes just curious of thought process for this management recommendation.


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