# One Handed Saw Operation



## lxt (Nov 4, 2007)

Just read this months TCIA mag. one of the features was about top handled chainsaws & the improper use. The writer made comment about one handing the saw was un-professional, heres my take!!

I have one handed a saw in the tree but do so with care & respect, when I can I use both hands, I think some of the accidents in our industry pertaining to saw use & chippers are due to the lack of training & the average Joe starting a tree biz with little or no exp.

When I started you ran a saw on the ground first & did this for about a year along with running a chipper & learning how to run ropes for the guys in the air. when I started climbing I wasnt allowed to use a power saw for 6 months & during this time I may have cursed the boss under my breath but my balance & knowledge didnt justify me using a saw aloft.

This is where I think alot of the problems stem from today, for production sake get up there, give em a saw, cut that, jump over there,cut that, etc... TRUE TRAINING has been put on hold for production at least in the utility sector.

In the residential realm the opposite has occurred, so & so got laid off with no return in sight, cashes in his 401k, buys some equipment & now he`s a tree trimmer with no exp. other than cuttin firewood!!!

I would really like to see what the training level of those that get hurt by a chipper or one handing a saw is. no training, lack of exp. or one of the vets who was too complacent in what they were doing.

what do you guys think?

LXT..........


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## BostonBull (Nov 4, 2007)

I one hand a top handle in the tree and bucket. But only when I feel there is little danger to it. I would never do it close to my body or if my hands are close together or worse yet if my arms are crossed across my body because of positioning.

I think alot of the injuries today are from people with little time on a saw, and NO common sense. After doing the work fro some time you begin to undersatnd what should, shouldnt, and DEFINATELY should NOT be done.

You CANT teach common sense!


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## newguy18 (Nov 4, 2007)

I to have one handed in trees before but I'm a little leary because I climb with a rear handled saw so i make every effort to get into a position to two hand it but its not always possible.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Nov 4, 2007)

It's one of those things where risk is highly elevated, and if it your SOP you will eventually get bit.

I know several people who had very close calls onehanding where they thought they had good body positioning. The force of the kickback through it back at them to get a little nick, just enough to scare


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## newguy18 (Nov 4, 2007)

Not a little saw but I one handed a stihl s10 in a tree a couple of years ago and got a small chunk of my knuckle bone nicked off.Not enough to go to the hospital but enough to scare me.


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## Job Corps Tree (Nov 4, 2007)

I still do every so often, But I hate for my students to see this. I tell them not ever to use any saw with just 1 hand. 
We know that sooner or Later you will need to one hand a chain saw expecailly up in a tree. 
I started on the ground and around a chipper. Working with an Home-lite XL12
16". That is what we climbed with our Boss thought we could not hold it with 1 hand, of course in time you could. We have Top Handed saw at work ,but my own are rear handed. That what I learned with and that's what I own.
I guess my point is one should not use a chain saw with just one hand. Both times I have been cut by a saw have been with just hand on it at that time!
D%$#-it that Hurts


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## treesquirrel (Nov 4, 2007)

*Liars in the shadows*

Anyone who has spent any significant time in a tree doing chainsaw work has one handed a top handled saw.

Those who say they have not are almost certainly liars.

Great care must be taken of course and if you can possibly get into a position for two handed use then that is what you should do.

If you do one hand then I suggest at minimum you double check your position and the security of your footing. Have the required two TIP and a third if possible. Always be damn sure you are cutting with the flat of the bar and are nowhere close to the tip of the bar touching off causing kickback. Never ever one hand of you are in a precariously balanced position. Always keep the saw supported after you cut through not allowing the saw and arm drop onto your leg or body.

One handing is risky and should be done only when you have no reasonable option. 

One handing small stuff with the power saw is silly. Use the Silky for removing the little stuff you feel compelled to one hand. It is easy to get haphazard and overconfident zipping through little stuff one handing a power saw. I can zip through a 2 inch limb very fast with my Silky and I do not have to exert energy starting it up.

Just my .02......


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## lync (Nov 4, 2007)

*One hand*

I saw a diagram of the most common locations on the body for chain saw injuries. The right hand had none and the left hand had many, as did the left shin, knee etc. 
The following day I took down a 24" dbh spruce behind a store using the bucket. One third of the limbs were over telephone and triplex 220 volt drop. 
Needless to say the limbs over the wires got cut and chucked into the dz and the others just got cut , with 2 hands on the saw ( an 020T). One cut I had to make with my left hand while I held the 3" limb with my right. The saw jumped out of the kerf and bounced down the limb toward my right hand. 
I was able to control the saws progress and stop it before any damage was done. But I could have been a statistic.
My point is that most climbers/bucket operators do one hand the top handle saw, but only when there is no alternative. I use snap cuts, loop runners to hold limbs being cut but occasionally my other hand is put in harms way, I just try to make it as infrequent as possible. 
Corey


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## treeman82 (Nov 4, 2007)

When I can I use the handsaw, sometimes I get yelled at for it... but those guys aren't up the tree with me, so they can either change places with me, or shut up. Today though, I was taking down a DEAD sugar maple that had some branches over a couple of cable and phone lines. I was using 2 hands until I got close to the end, then I'd hold the piece with one hand and cut with the other. Small pieces that I could handle.


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## Bigus Termitius (Nov 4, 2007)

treeman82 said:


> When I can I use the handsaw, sometimes I get yelled at for it... *but those guys aren't up the tree with me, so they can either change places with me, or shut up.* Today though, I was taking down a DEAD sugar maple that had some branches over a couple of cable and phone lines. I was using 2 hands until I got close to the end, then I'd hold the piece with one hand and cut with the other. Small pieces that I could handle.



Reminds me of the other day when a temp on our crew gave me a hard time about finishing up a tree quicker. (He usually runs a timberjack trimmer.) I held out the pole saw and said: "You want this." He said no of course.

I'm glad he didn't. We spend most of last week doing over work that he claimed he had done with another crew. He had been there, but did everything all wrong. Quicker for him, but wrong and twice as slow and expensive for the company because of the do over.

I'm patient, but on occasion even I must one hand a power saw. (Husky 338)
It's mostly because I'm chunking something up and redirecting to the dz so as to clear the lines and what not. My left hand is on the backside and away and my position gives room for a kick back. Also, I don't need high RPMs on the husky to get the job done, thus the violence and destructive "profile" of a potential kickback is decreased.


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## M.D. Vaden (Nov 4, 2007)

I think that whether it's right or wrong is judged by the majority of skilled and knowledgeable arborists.

And my observation is that the preponderance of practice overwhelms written material.

From a common-sense aspect, manufacturers are not putting that centered handle for balanced one-hand operation there for nothing.

The little else I can add is how on earth would you ever get cut one-handing unless you were being so sloppy, that the same sloppy attitude would bite you in the a$$ some other way, like with your rigging.

I just can't see how someone gets a kickback, unless they place their saw in position for a kickback.

There is nothing wrong with one-handing, except for trying to one-hand everything and not getting out the handsaw or both hands on occassions.

Besides, nobody is going to get on a small build woman arborist's case for two-handing a chainsaw, and we know there are guys that can one-hand control a saw possibly twice as effectively as the same woman two-handing. Yet some safety manuals judge the woman as safe and that man as not.


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## fireman (Nov 4, 2007)

Guys most of our injuries come from lack of respect of the equipment and unfamiliarity of equipment.THE OTHER comes from at the end of the day on the last cut get to tired or hurry to the get the job done.This one of the most physical and mentally stressed jobs there are.The weekend warrior or the guy that buys a chainsaw and says hes a tree trimmer is in for a surprise.U have to be in shape and stay fit if u want to survive.I'm a full time fireman and paramedic of the 17yrs being a paramedic and owning a small tree trimming business all of the patients Ive treated have been to tired or unsure of equipment when they got injured made a bad judgment call.U have to be on top of your game every day or it will bight u in the but or the guys on the ground if u make the wrong decision.My 200 t i one hand all the time only in a bucket climbing u have to know your limits. Stay safe only do the work u have been trained to do.The owners of company's train Ur men and dont let them work out of the realm of their training and if there tired or exhausted do to heat size of tree or clear cut there is always tomorrow.I hate to see a fireman or doctor say your husband wife didn't make through the accident which 85% Of the time could have been avoided. STAY SAFE KEEP UP THE EXCELLENT POSTS!!!!!!!!!


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## Night Owle (Nov 5, 2007)

*This is A useful Thread...*

Two points I like so far..

If You have to "one hand" keep the RPMs down.

and Stay away from the tip of the bar.

Keep Safe.........

Night Owle....


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## D Mc (Nov 5, 2007)

I found that article particularly irritating. I can't imagine not one handing the saw. That is what the top handled saw was made for. Using two hands on a top handled saw and saying that's what it takes to be safe is like slapping a helmet on a motorcycle rider and saying you're good to go. There's so much more to it than that. In that same issue a tree worker got seriously injured who was an award-winning, safety-conscious employee. Tree work is dangerous. Safety needs to be looked at from a much broader approach than the "do this and you'll be safe" attitude. It takes time to learn and practice to learn technique. Being 60' up a tree, tied into an 11 mm line is not the time to say "I think I'll try practicing one-handing my saw"! Actually, you can cut through your line very easily with a Silky, and many pictures have been posted on injuries caused by handsaws and polesaws. And those situations do happen and accidents do occur, but was that the saw's fault or a lack of technique, experience and training?

Bottom line: Do not do something you cannot do. Do what you can.

DMc


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## newguy18 (Nov 5, 2007)

You make a good point dmc this definatly is not a career that you should take lightly no matter how much experiance you have.Theres always the chance of an accident.Even when you go and buy something like a silky you should use it in a way that you wont get cut.Ive cut my self almost to the bone with my handsaw and it sucks espically when the costumers sees blood coming out of the tree then when I get done and come down try and explain to them its just a nick [which of course it wasn't].


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## alanarbor (Nov 5, 2007)

What's clear here is that a great many of the one handed chainsaw injuries have occured to experienced operators. It's usually when cutting and chucking or blocking down a spar.

When most of the stuff you are going to handle is 2-3" in diameter why not use a handsaw? You're putting a good bit more strain on your elbow, and shoulder slinging around the 200t.

When blocking down, why not use a bypass, snap the piece off with both hands on it, and the saw on your belt?

I was guilty as anyone of one handing. That's how I learned. 

Where I work now, if you can't keep both hands on the chainsaw, you use a handsaw, you rig it out, you reposition, whatever it takes. We just don't do it.


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## Blinky (Nov 5, 2007)

Night Owle said:


> Two points I like so far..
> 
> If You have to "one hand" keep the RPMs down.
> 
> ...



You might re-think the low RPM thing... the saw still has plenty of torque at low RPM and kickback or jumping the kerf are more likely if the chain grabs. At full throttle the chain cuts more, grabs less... if it's sharpened right.

Personally, I do one-hand when I have to but I usually run a chainsaw at full throttle. If it's a cut that will go at low RPM I pull out the handsaw... SUGOI!

Not trying to tell what to do, just want you to think about it.


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## Blinky (Nov 5, 2007)

From what I've read, a lot of one handed chainsaw injuries happen when holding the piece in one hand while cutting with the other. 

For cutting and chucking with a chainsaw or a handsaw I took a lesson from some line clearance guys. Use snap cuts. Make your mismatch cuts, stow the saw and break the piece... total control even with big wood. Also has a very cool, professional look to it when you methodically make the cuts, calmly put the saw away, confidently snap off the piece and chuck it into the pile.


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## Magnum783 (Nov 5, 2007)

Blinky said:


> From what I've read, a lot of one handed chainsaw injuries happen when holding the piece in one hand while cutting with the other.
> 
> For cutting and chucking with a chainsaw or a handsaw I took a lesson from some line clearance guys. Use snap cuts. Make your mismatch cuts, stow the saw and break the piece... total control even with big wood. Also has a very cool, professional look to it when you methodically make the cuts, calmly put the saw away, confidently snap off the piece and chuck it into the pile.



Great idea I use it often also just a little addition I got from my mentor. Cut it with a chain saw with two hands till it almost breaks. Stow the saw pull out hand saw and finish one handed with the hand saw. A little slower but safe.
Jared


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## DonnyO (Nov 5, 2007)

Magnum783 said:


> Great idea I use it often also just a little addition I got from my mentor. Cut it with a chain saw with two hands till it almost breaks. Stow the saw pull out hand saw and finish one handed with the hand saw. A little slower but safe.
> Jared




this method is great. To be real, there is a place for it, and there is a place for one handed cutting and chucking....................opcorn:


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## BostonBull (Nov 5, 2007)

Magnum783 said:


> Great idea I use it often also just a little addition I got from my mentor. Cut it with a chain saw with two hands till it almost breaks. Stow the saw pull out hand saw and finish one handed with the hand saw. A little slower but safe.
> Jared



Pull that on a production crew and youd be looking for a new job fast.


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## Streyken (Nov 5, 2007)

One handed sawing... you can't do that! It's like, like, so unsafe! Doesn't matter that you have 200 branches on a tree and you have to hold on to every one - tie on a rope, cut with two hands and lower each branch. The only time I one hand a saw while removing branches is about 90% of the time.

Snap cuts are good, just don't try this: Double Bucking opcorn:


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## clearance (Nov 5, 2007)

Magnum783 said:


> Great idea I use it often also just a little addition I got from my mentor. Cut it with a chain saw with two hands till it almost breaks. Stow the saw pull out hand saw and finish one handed with the hand saw. A little slower but safe.
> Jared



I am with Boston Bull, on a production line crew you would be gone. Anyways, how are you going to push off overhanging conifer branches with out one handing? A handsaw will not cut fast enough, you have to cut with one hand on your 020 and push hard with your other hand. It would suck suck to drop a branch on the line, especially if it wasn't cut off, like that would really suck. Time and a place for it, it you don't like it, don't do it. 

I could see your method on one or two trees, try and side limb 30 decent sized conifers over the line like that, in one day and all.


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## newguy18 (Nov 5, 2007)

There is definatly a time and place for one handing but I've also seen alot of people who think that top handled saws were made for one handing.I one hand about 1/4 of the time I'm in a tree but that is because of nessicity and not ignorance.


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## clearance (Nov 5, 2007)

newguy18 said:


> There is definatly a time and place for one handing but I've also seen alot of people who think that top handled saws were made for one handing.I one hand about 1/4 of the time I'm in a tree but that is because of nessicity and not ignorance.



They are made for one handing, thats why the handle is on top, duh.


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## ropensaddle (Nov 5, 2007)

BostonBull said:


> I one hand a top handle in the tree and bucket. But only when I feel there is little danger to it. I would never do it close to my body or if my hands are close together or worse yet if my arms are crossed across my body because of positioning.
> 
> I think alot of the injuries today are from people with little time on a saw, and NO common sense. After doing the work fro some time you begin to undersatnd what should, shouldnt, and DEFINATELY should NOT be done.
> 
> You CANT teach common sense!


I agree with you accept the teach factor just hit them harder
and they learn, better than the alternative


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## ropensaddle (Nov 5, 2007)

clearance said:


> I am with Boston Bull, on a production line crew you would be gone. Anyways, how are you going to push off overhanging conifer branches with out one handing? A handsaw will not cut fast enough, you have to cut with one hand on your 020 and push hard with your other hand. It would suck suck to drop a branch on the line, especially if it wasn't cut off, like that would really suck. Time and a place for it, it you don't like it, don't do it.
> 
> I could see your method on one or two trees, try and side limb 30 decent sized conifers over the line like that, in one day and all.



Actually a more dangerous senerio is if it cut off and your saw is still
touching the limb you complete the circuit limb still attached the tree will
take the brunt and as long as you practice staying out of the path of least
resistance you most likely would be ok!


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## BC WetCoast (Nov 6, 2007)

BostonBull said:


> Pull that on a production crew and youd be looking for a new job fast.



I was talking to a buddy who's at Davey. 

Get caught one handing = 2 days suspension.


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## beastmaster (Nov 6, 2007)

Wow, I thought everyone who used a top handle saw in a tree to trim, often use one hand. I am often in positions where I have to use either hand to make a cut on a branch that I wouldn't be able to reach useing two hands. Of course this is only on smaller trimming cuts. On even smaller cuts I use my loppers or hand saw. I am surprise this is even a controversy.


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## treesquirrel (Nov 6, 2007)

beastmaster said:


> I am surprise this is even a controversy.



It is not really. But when you take any classes regarding tree care the instructors will swear that no company manufactures a one handed chainsaw and that the practice is patently wrong.

Those of us that make our living cutting and not teaching do not agree.


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## newguy18 (Nov 6, 2007)

Your suprised that theres contoversy over one handing a chainsaw?Theres people that will tell you never to do it and theres people that say thats why they have a top handle to one hand all the time.Me personally only when I have to but since I burnt my 141 up I've been climbing with a 51 and that is really hard to one hand trust me.


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## sawsong (Nov 6, 2007)

Night Owle said:


> Two points I like so far..
> 
> If You have to "one hand" keep the RPMs down.
> 
> ...



i'll happily go with the tip of the bar part, but ive always been taught, run the saw flat out or not at all. running the saw slowly is the one surefire way to get kickback, the cutters grab instead of cutting, and all of a sudden the saw is out of your control. and ive seen it proven too.

it's one thing i suppose saying if you do slip then slower rpm means less chance of injury (if wearing appropriate gloves with rear hand protection like i do) but if there's a chance of the saw slipping and going towards your other hand or body part, it should never have been operated in one hand in the first place imo. sorry, but thats how i feel

i'll stick to cutting flat out i think. i've ever such an attractive face (i wish)

jim


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## newguy18 (Nov 6, 2007)

I only use low rpms when tripping dynamic cuts.


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## Streyken (Nov 6, 2007)

treesquirrel said:


> Those of us that make our living cutting and not teaching do not agree.


 That says it all, as far as I'm concerned. I've got pics of the guys who teach this for a well known organization doing exactly the opposite while on the job.



BC WetCoast said:


> I was talking to a buddy who's at Davey. Get caught one handing = 2 days suspension.


 These guys are going to be doing a few trees near where I live - I'll get some pics. This may be Davey's official position, but if they enforced it, every crew they run would be shut down.

I used a top handle saw for a week and it didn't take, it felt unsafe to me, but that's probably just because I'm not use to it.


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## lxt (Nov 6, 2007)

BC WetCoast said:


> I was talking to a buddy who's at Davey.
> 
> Get caught one handing = 2 days suspension.





Yes this is true!! however for production sake & those wonderful firm bid jobs if your behind its whatever is neccessary to get the desired footage, even if it means a few rules get broken!! been there!!the big shots dont like it, but the GF`s know what it takes to get the job done(most anyway).


LXT...........


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## tree md (Nov 6, 2007)

Like others have posted I 1 hand when I have to. Anytime I make a cut in the tree or on the ground for that matter I always think before I cut and assess potential kickback situations and pinch situations. It just boils down to using common sense before making a cut. It's like chess, you have to think three moves ahead in this business. 

I've got a young climber working for me that I just started out about a month ago. He is fearless in a tree and is a very agile climber. However, I have only let him use a chainsaw in a tree twice. Both times I had him at eye level, could watch him and tell him every move to make (I'd never forgive myself if he got hurt bad). I bought a Silky hand saw just for him to use and that is what he has been working with for a month. He still cut his finger with the dern thing yesterday, nasty cut too. I've only let him use the spikes about 4 times. I want him to learn how to work off a rope and not become too dependent on the gaffs.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Nov 6, 2007)

tree md said:


> He still cut his finger with the dern thing yesterday, nasty cut too.



I did it again yesterday too, I was hanging sideways and it slipped out of the scabbard as I was roping something in the high winds. It does not take much.

Good for you, making the guy learn like that.


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## marlinspiker (Nov 6, 2007)

*one handing is stupid*

My company forbids it and I agree with them. By using a combination of the right tools and the willingness to get into the right position, one can mitigate any need to one hand a saw. If your stretching too far from the cut, get closer. If you need to catch a piece, use a loop runner or other type of rigging device. Once you become a good climber there is never a need to one hand.


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## clearance (Nov 6, 2007)

BC WetCoast said:


> I was talking to a buddy who's at Davey.
> 
> Get caught one handing = 2 days suspension.



Davey res. or Davey utility? I bet res. Suspended one handing?? See ya Davey, thanks for the job, make up my final cheque.


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## newguy18 (Nov 6, 2007)

marlinspiker for one welcome to arboristsite and second are you saying your a cherry to climbing?If you never evr onehanded a chain saw then you must still be a groundie because sooner or later we all do it just be careful when you do it and you will be fine.


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## marlinspiker (Nov 6, 2007)

*anyhow*

Ive been climbing for 5 years and admittedly used to one hand but learned my lesson. There are ways around it and once you learn them you wont go back. positioning positioning positioning.


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## newguy18 (Nov 6, 2007)

i climb with a husky 51 and still find the need to one hand at least once in every tree I climb.


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## beowulf343 (Nov 6, 2007)

Night Owle said:


> If You have to "one hand" keep the RPMs down.



Yeah, but look at it this way-keep the rpm's up, finish the cut faster, and actually spend less time onehanding. 



BostonBull said:


> Pull that on a production crew and youd be looking for a new job fast.



Yep, never even saw a climber with a handsaw before i switched to residential.



treesquirrel said:


> Those of us that make our living cutting and not teaching do not agree.



Nice.



Final verdict-i am very strict when teaching new climbers about making sure they keep both hands on the saw. But once they get comfortable and learn what they are doing, i don't say much. Frankly, i one hand regularly, and it's usually with a 357 or 361. Spend enough years swinging saws around and you will build up the wrists and hands that can safely handle a saw one handed if the need arises.


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## treesquirrel (Nov 6, 2007)

beowulf343 said:


> Final verdict-i am very strict when teaching new climbers about making sure they keep both hands on the saw. But once they get comfortable and learn what they are doing, i don't say much.



This is a very very practical and reasonable position. Thanks for being realistic.

I do realize that in our litigious society that taking a class and actually teaching one handing is in fact a poor choice. So in all fairness I do not wish to point so much at teachers as I would at lawyers.

Thanks to the threat of legal problems there are many many official stances that are just smoke and mirrors in our world today.


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## underwor (Nov 6, 2007)

I will admit to one handing in the past 41 years and have the scars to prove it. All chain saw nicks have come from either one handing or using the saw above my head. I started on xl-12 with 16" bar as climbing saw and I was barely 100 lbs (wish I could still say that) so it was not really an issue. Did see a logger once one handing a 066 with 36" bar limbing some down oaks in Illinois. Decided I would not mess with him as he made it look easy

As a teacher, I challenge my students to show me the limb, over 3" silky size, that they can not reach with 2 hands on the saw. I have not had one show me a case yet. I will admit to taking a minute or two longer to get to it, but at 60 years old, I have let experience and efficiency replace speed on the job. I will not claim to never one hand, but I guarantee that once you have poked a few holes in your body, you do think a little longer about it. At my age, I usually only get the real nasty trees that no one else wants to mess with, especially those that the bucket truck can not get to. Therefore, I work on straight time and materials and charge accordingly. Found out a few years back that I like to make more money doing less volume and taking my time. All work is on referrals, no advertising. While it is not my entire livelihood, it nicely supports my hobby of teaching.


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## treesquirrel (Nov 7, 2007)

underwor said:


> As a teacher, I challenge my students to show me the limb, over 3" silky size, that they can not reach with 2 hands on the saw. I have not had one show me a case yet.



In almost all the tree work I have performed a 3 inch limb is attached to a lead that has the size to provide for a good platform where repositioning is not a problem. But in your 41 years of tree work I am sure you've met many varieties or situations where this may not be the case. The fact that you have been doing this for so long and still doing it is a testament to the level of care you take handling your saw aloft.

I have more scars from ground work than work aloft by a long shot and I never run a saw one handed on the ground. Reason, I am much much more discriminating in the canopy. Any professional will take the proper care in handling a saw with respect and care aloft. I admit to becoming a bit less careful on the ground and it is silly because on the ground I am running the big bore saws where I consider the danger higher. A slip up with an 099 or 880 would be bad.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Nov 7, 2007)

beowulf343 said:


> Spend enough years swinging saws around and you will build up the wrists and hands that can safely handle a saw one handed if the need arises.



Spending years onehanding on a regular basis and you increase the chance for carpal tunnel and chronic tendinitis.

I've known enough skilled people who have kickback experiences that freaked them out that I can say with confidence that no one can control a kickback onehanded.

I will not say that it is unsafe, but it is higher risk then two hands. If we expose ourselves to elevated risk in our everyday work, why increase the risk for a few seconds of production?

Oh, because we are chest-thumping he men. Me man, me strong. You disagree, you wimpy girlyman.

Climb safer, climb longer.


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## D Mc (Nov 7, 2007)

I don't want to turn this into a pissing contest, *But* if it has anything to do with trees, I've probably done it. My career started before finishing high school with which turned into one of the most progressive tree companies in Northern California at the time. All of us at the time one handed our saws to some degree or other. In the fifteen or so years I actively worked with that company there was not a single injury caused by one-handing a saw. My only serious saw injury was while two handing a saw on the ground in my early years which kicked back and caught my left hand. This was prior to chain brakes. 

I realize things are different now and employers and employees need to protect themselves by working within the system that currently exists. 

What irritates me is the complete lack of recognition for the technique itself. Somewhere, some time it may be necessary to do. You had better be capable of safely accomplishing the task.

We became aware of the complete lack of instruction on the technique of using spurs while my wife was studying for her Certified Arborist exam. There seems to be a general feeling not dissimilar to this, that if you use spurs you are not a good or "professional" climber. We are not spending the time in training new climbers in their use to become proficient when necessity demands them. 

To my mind this is a mistake. There is a world of climbing techniques; you cannot gain too much knowledge in this area. 

D Mc


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## newguy18 (Nov 7, 2007)

I agree with you totally just like one handing there is a time and a place for spurs which is on removals and even then I've had people argue with me that spurless removals are the way to go.I'll stick with spikeing my removals as well as one handing when the need arises which is about 1/4 of the time im climbing and it only got me once with the old stihl i mentioned earlier.


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## beowulf343 (Nov 7, 2007)

Wait a minute, JPS, are you saying that you never one-hand a saw?


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## beastmaster (Nov 9, 2007)

marlinspiker said:


> Once you become a good climber there is never a need to one hand.



I consider my self an above average climber. I learned trimming on a production crew. when I'm in a tree trimming I do most my trimming cuts one handed, and so does everyone I've ever worked with. I have excellent control and don't cut near my safety lines or body parts. I stress safety on my crew but I never even considered one handed cutting a safety issue. The bottom line is if your a professional and you have to reach out one handed to make a cut or over your head you do it. I wonder what else I'm doing wrong


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## John Paul Sanborn (Nov 10, 2007)

beowulf343 said:


> Wait a minute, JPS, are you saying that you never one-hand a saw?



Never have, never will...say that I never do.

I agree with the old Z-133 allowing for the practice in situations where it is the only safe method.

One of the reasons I climb with a long lanyard is that it allows me batter ability to adjust body position. Sometimes there is no safe way to get 2 hands on the saw, then you need to position and secure yourself so that nothing else can go wrong.

I know of one guy who had a branch break under him while onehanding and the only thing that saved his other hand was the bar hit his watch. It was still rather messy, though all I saw were the scars on his wrist.

I disagree with people who think that one hand saw operation is acceptable SOP. If you do it yourself, you raise your risk exposure. If you allow it on a crew, as SOP vs occasional use, then the kids see it and they think they can do it. I've looked down and see groundmen cutting firewood one handed... "You just did it up there!"

My problem is that we become to blase' with these tools.


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## John464 (Nov 10, 2007)

I don't see one handing dangerous *unless* your other hand is close to the one handed saw operation or above your head cuts. 

If you are reaching out at a stretch and do get kick back as long as your hand or head is not within kickback range it is safe practice for the seasoned climber. This is an advanced judgement based on how well you know your saw and it's responses. A MS200t will only kick back so far, definitely not three feet back towards you. I use a MS200t while up in air and know what positions could potentially cause kickback or the saw to skate. When this is noted the other hand is no where near the cut. If you lay into the wood properly with the saw you will not get kickback. Once into the wood, if there is a need to push, grab, or hold this can be done since the saw is within the cut. Knowing what the saw can/will do exiting the cut also requires saw experience foresight.


There is definitely a time and a place for one handing, but remember without the complete understanding of it's potential pitfalls, you will get bitten.


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## RedlineIt (Nov 10, 2007)

> Spending years onehanding on a regular basis and you increase the chance for carpal tunnel and chronic tendinitis.



JPS, a subject near and dear to me.

Having consulted with Surgeons, General Practitioners, Occupational Therapists, and rehabilitation Nurses, I can tell you that there are many other things we do that spell Carpal Tunnel Syndrome and Chronic Tendonitis.

Drum Roll...

#1. Fruit Tree Pruning. Ten to fifteen feet of the ground, making 500 secatuer cuts per day.

#2. Hedge shearing. An ocillating plate on an eight foot stick, on a ladder. Google Reynauds syndrome.

#3. Climbing Rope/ Footlocking. Repetative hold /release /advance very tough on tendons and wrists, not to mention knees.

#4. Operation of large saws. Vibe damping is about as good as it can get, but it will still get you.

#5. Repetative use of long pole pruners. Ergonomically, you are better off to climb and cut.

----


There is more, but I am just saying that one-handing is not a problem as far as tendonitus or carpal tunnel is concerned.

And you can quote me on that.


RedlineIt


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## John Paul Sanborn (Nov 10, 2007)

RedlineIt said:


> JPS, a subject near and dear to me.
> 
> Having consulted with Surgeons, General Practitioners, Occupational Therapists, and rehabilitation Nurses, I can tell you that there are many other things we do that spell Carpal Tunnel Syndrome and Chronic Tendonitis.



So, are you saying it is no use minimizing the exposure, or that one should limit that exposure whenever possible?

I had a P.T. tell me that one can ease the strain of hand pruning and other repetitive tasks by making sure that the hand and wrist are in-line.


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## BC WetCoast (Nov 10, 2007)

*Worker's Comp*

In BC, worker's comp is controlled by the government. The employer has to pay premiums based on the industry risk and on past claims. That is, if a company had a claim, which for example cost worker's comp $100,000 in medical expenses and living allowance, that $100,000 is charged back to the company in the form of a higher premium. 

Yes, this has killed many a small company. However, if a company has a strict, written and enforced policy for say, no one handing, then if you were cut yourself one handing, then the company will dispute the claim. It is highly likely your claim would be denied or delayed and the worker would be SOL.


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## RedlineIt (Nov 10, 2007)

> So, are you saying it is no use minimizing the exposure, or that one should limit that exposure whenever possible



JPS: Minimize our exposure to what? Damn dear everything we do has medical issues relating to wrist, carpal tunnel, tendon overextension, including pulling out the Silky to finish the cut. Handsaws are no panacea as they exhibit there own set of repetative motion considerations which can relate up past the wrist to elbow, shoulder and neck.

Speaking specifically about onehanding a top-handled saw and carpal tunnel or tendonitis, it is the least of our worries. They are well-balanced tools with the best vibe damping technology available.

If you want to minimize your exposure to Carpal Tunnel Syndrome or Tendonitis, look to the built-in disadvantage of your Felco's or the unbelievable vibration of your hedge shears.


RedlineIt


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## tree md (Nov 10, 2007)

Another potential health issue is torn rotator cuff problems. I have to admit that one handed saw operation was SOP on the crew I learned to climb with. After a few years of one arming saws I developed rotator cuff problems. They gave me some exercises to do that seemed to repair the damage done. I have no problems with pain in my shoulder anymore but that taught me to develop better, safer climbing practices. Like JPS said, position, position, position. I carry 2 lanyards with me now, a flipline and a buckstrap to help me position better before I cut. I have a young climber working for me now that always wants to cut from awkward positions. It drives me nuts. I keep telling him they call it a positioning saddle for a reason. To get in a good comfortable position before making a cut. We all know that it is not always possible to get in a comfortable position when we cut and sometimes one handing a saw is a necessity but I will spend extra time to do so when possible. As apposed to cutting from an awkward position for the sake of speed.


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## newguy18 (Nov 10, 2007)

One handing so easy a caveman can do it.


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## D Mc (Nov 10, 2007)

Check out this link for some interesting information re safety/ergonomics and the complexities of how both are intertwined. They also address the training vs experience conundrum. www.treemettlenexus.com

I started using 020s when they first came out but recently (2 years ago) switched to the 192. I think it is only a pound lighter but OMG does it make a difference at the end of the day. It's like my current climbing set up: an 11mm Velocity, run thru an adjustable false crotch with a Rock Exotica swivel pulley down to my Lockjack. Unbelieveable, totally frictionless. It allows me so much more energy to devote to the job at hand rather than using up my energy getting from position to position. Would I put a rooky on it? No way. 


Like I (and others) have said: Do what you can, not what you can't.

DMc


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## underwor (Nov 10, 2007)

Come to think of it, all my chainsaw scars have come from accidents on the ground. Another good reason to give your groundmen as much or more training than your climbers. All my in tree scars come from the old 22" or new Silky saws.


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## Streyken (Nov 11, 2007)

I see people here are from all over, I think the techniques one uses has a lot to do with the type of trees one is cutting and the situations one is cutting under. On average I cut 600-1000+ branches a day (for real - hemlock, cedar, fir) what am I going to do - get into what position? Please tell me. I have 20 years experience, no WCB or insurance claims (not one) and no answer. Rope every branch down, ya right.


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## treesquirrel (Nov 11, 2007)

Streyken said:


> I see people here are from all over, I think the techniques one uses has a lot to do with the type of trees one is cutting and the situations one is cutting under. On average I cut 600-1000+ branches a day (for real - hemlock, cedar, fir) what am I going to do - get into what position? Please tell me. I have 20 years experience, no WCB or insurance claims (not one) and no answer. Rope every branch down, ya right.




20 years, no accidents, regularly one hands.

Sounds like a pro who takes care to control his saw properly regardless of how many hands is holding it. 

Thanks for the input. 

I think this thread pretty much debunks the stance that top handle saws are not meant to be one handed.

Yes, we can all agree that better control is realized with two hands depending on the work position. I think we all agree that extra care must be taken if one handing is required. 

But I'd consider the professional consensus does not agree with the preachers on the pulpits spouting one handing is wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. 

What I would find even more interesting is how many of the pro's always set a fixed line for all removals? I think I will start a thread on that one.


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## daveyclimber (Nov 12, 2007)

It is not practicle to always use two hands on a climbing saw, anyone with any degree of expeirience knows this. I one hand with respect and undivided attention. Even one handed 025's on occasion. Got to do what it takes to get the job done. Buckets, poles, arms and bars are never long enough sometimes


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## upperlimits (Nov 22, 2007)

*one handing chainsaws*

I one hand my ms200/020 with care. I do try most the time to use two hands, but you guys know how it goes. I don't know for certain, but don't top handled saws seem balanced almost perfect for one handing as if they were desighned for that in mind? Top handled saws don't seem to me to provide a very ergonomic feel for ground work. I wont use mine on the ground. I guess thats why they call them trim saws/ top handled saws for use up in the tree. I'm tired of hypocrites that say you must always make every cut with two hands, and then you see them months or days latter in the field swinging it around one handed like its a magic wand. I know based on experience two hands can always be used, but who wants to lower all those 3 plus inch diameter branches that don't even have enough weight to make it down a lowering line.


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## AlpineJesus (Nov 23, 2007)

If you use two hands then you cant flip pieces or redirect them. All the great tree surgeons I have seen in action always one hand the saw and use the other hand to manipulate the branch or wood section for a smooth damage free landing.


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## treedog72 (Nov 24, 2007)

*Training!*

Training! The key word. Employers have to develop an EDP (employee development program). Too much time is spent on just getting the job done. Very little time is spent on properly training employees. The company I work for has safety meetings weekly and quarterly training seminars. They prove to pay off in the long run. Also, it is ANSI regulation to operate a chainsaw with two hands while it is in operation


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