# Our work is pretty rough, actually.



## Sunrise Guy (Jul 8, 2008)

I think many of us don't stop to think about just how rough it is until we see how it effects newbies. I recently went through a couple of new ground guys. One fellow, 23, put in about an hour and then I found him laying flat on the ground, literally. I asked him what was wrong and he said, "Miles, I think I'm having some kind of stroke. I don't feel good. I'm real dizzy." After a half hour in the truck with some water and the AC running, he made it to the end of the day. A few days ago this other guy showed up for his first day. After he charged in and really hustled for the first hour, I looked over at him and saw that he was white as a ghost. I asked him if he was OK and he shook his head, no. I talked to him for a bit and told him to take it easy for the next fifteen. He started up after that, but then took a break, again, and threw up. After another fifteen or more, he got back in the swing of things and lasted out the day. He is ready to go, for tomorrow, or so he told me, today.

Now, Dan, my right-hand man, and I are older guys, no doubt about it. At 58 and 55, we probably should be sitting in the office or out selling gigs instead of swinging in the trees and hauling brush. Thing is, we like the physical work. Crucial with that, though, we know how to pace ourselves in this 95+ weather down here, and we know when to grab the water bottle. 

I tell new guys to not push too hard and to be mindful of taking water breaks before they feel drained. I think because those guys are mostly less than half our age they figure that if the old guys can do the work, how hard can it be?

I'm sure genetics plays in here, too. Both of us come from families that had guys working right into their eighties. Will I be climbing and rigging down big wood when I'm eighty? I kind of doubt it, but you never know.


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## rmihalek (Jul 8, 2008)

Sunrise,

I did some work with a friend a few weeks ago in 85-90 degree heat. I drank a gallon of water before lunch, had a quart of gatorade during lunch and more water after lunch. I never had to pee: I sweated it all out and it was GREAT! I love the work- there's nothing like having sweat pouring out of every pore and you're getting the job done.

I guess some the newbies are realizing that real work is a lot different than playing video games or walking around the mall looking for chicks...


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## custom8726 (Jul 8, 2008)

The biggest thing I noticed about :newbie's is they generally work twice as hard to accomplish less. It takes time and a strong desire to succeed to make the tree industry your career but with time hopefully you will work more with your aquired skills then your back. Problem is most of the newer generation lack the intestinal fortitude to make it to the smarter not harder stage of there career.


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## Nailsbeats (Jul 8, 2008)

I work with guys all day that really know how to work. Guys that don't cut it get laughed out of the county. You have to be a worker, have it in your blood, your mind and your eyes. Nothing I like better than seing a group of guys pull together, go in an all out hustle and complete a job. I thrive in that environment, many don't. It takes all kinds, if there wasn't a bottom there wouldn't be a top, someone has to flip burgers.

Good point Custom, many don't make it past the first stage in these types of jobs. Balls come first, figure the rest out later.


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## TDunk (Jul 8, 2008)

I have to agree with you Sunrise, guys that have been doing that type of work for decades know how to pace them selves. Plus the muscles they need are already built up, there use to the type of work being done etc. etc. etc. Point being, my father-in-law is 50 and has been doing tree work since high school. I'm 24 and have been doing tree work for 3 years. I'm finally to the point now that i can work at his pace all day long. 

By the way though, there's nothing wrong with going to the mall and looking for chicks


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## Sunrise Guy (Jul 8, 2008)

rmihalek said:


> Sunrise,
> 
> I did some work with a friend a few weeks ago in 85-90 degree heat. I drank a gallon of water before lunch, had a quart of gatorade during lunch and more water after lunch. I never had to pee: I sweated it all out and it was GREAT! I love the work- there's nothing like having sweat pouring out of every pore and you're getting the job done.
> 
> I guess some the newbies are realizing that real work is a lot different than playing video games or walking around the mall looking for chicks...



Yeah, well said! Dan and I were just talking about how much water and powerade we drink during the day, yet we never have to take a single restroom break. I think your body has to "learn" to sweat efficiently to keep cool. Maybe that's a problem new guys have until they start sweating to the same degree (pun?) as those of us who have been at it for a good bit.


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## JeffL (Jul 8, 2008)

Yeah, you dont really stop to think about it much for sure. Today was a real scorcher, had a few guys just about drop at work. Had them go take all the time they needed in the shade, and told them to keep on putting water in themselves. I've spent nearly every summer outside since I started working at 15 years old (so at my ripe old age of 25, that puts me at 10 summers, through all the hot, humid, rainy, dry, windy #### of it all). 

I guess you just get used to it, and cant really appreciate how hard it really is. Hell, I'm almost bored at work after doing a day of planting or something, I'm NOT EVEN SORE when I get home, it feels like such a waste to get home after a day of work and not even be exhausted.


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## oldirty (Jul 8, 2008)

hey i like work'n hard too!


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## custom8726 (Jul 8, 2008)

oldirty said:


> hey i like work'n hard too!



X2, you kinda have to in our field. No matter how much experience you posess its still a very physically demanding proffession it just does'nt seem so grueling once you get in the groove of things.


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## extraspecialman (Jul 8, 2008)

kinda off topic,and I apologize,but I live in farm country and do alot of custom work for farmers around here,including lots of custom baling.They will pay me pretty good for using my tractor and square baler,all I do is sit on my butt and drive.While they want to pay the young kids $20 a day for slingin bales in 90 degree heat .Now im not saying in anyway that you guys dont pay enuff,cause I have no idea what yall pay.I agree 100% the younger guys cant keep up with older guys ,but many times,they really have no reason to. Lots of kids out there just need some incentive,while lots more just need their a$$es kicked away from the video games.


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## Slvrmple72 (Jul 9, 2008)

You learn to work hard. I was splittin wood at home and my little 3 yr old boy was watching me run the splitter. I put some hearing protection and safety glasses on him and he would hang on that splitter lever while I fed the logs. He loved it! I think I won't have to worry too much about him being a hard worker when he gets older. Now teaching him to be a smarter worker not just a harder worker than his old man will be the real challenge. Some heads are harder than others, I know I was a tough nut to crack as a teenager. Twice as much effort to do half as much work because I was to darn stubborn to listen or take constructive criticism.


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## ropensaddle (Jul 9, 2008)

Funny ya brought this up I remember all the help over the years and
one ole boy comes to mind. In all outward appearances he was fit as
a fiddle and bragged and said he worked on the farm etc. He was 22
and I 41 at the time and I will give him credit he tried to keep up. He
found me relentless and I was just working my normal pace when he
collapsed and I was surprised. Took him to see the doc and when he 
came back I told him to get to shade several times each day. He did
not want to listen much though so I actually had to stop to keep him
from overheating! He quit after a few weeks said the work was too ruff 
for him and I found out later he was taking steroids and weightlifting
trying to build up


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## M.D. Vaden (Jul 9, 2008)

The roughness of this work came to mind last night. Not sure if you saw my post in off-topic about joining 24 hour fitness.

But when trying to decide how long to exercise, I realized that the profession I'm in affects how long of a work-out to choose.

For people working, I tend to find the branch hauling as something that wears-down workers faster than say moving piles of soil or sod for lawn installation. Even though any of those can be paced.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jul 9, 2008)

custom8726 said:


> The biggest thing I noticed about :newbie's is they generally work twice as hard to accomplish less



Especially the one stick at a time drag to the chipper


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jul 9, 2008)

M.D. Vaden said:


> But when trying to decide how long to exercise, I realized that the profession I'm in affects how long of a work-out to choose.



That it does, and one often needs help figuring out what to actually do.

I've been investing time and money in seeing a PT clinic since my back is so screwed up, and it has been helping tremendously. I've found that the front part of my neck is over developed compared to the back, due to leaning forward with the helmet on, and there are many locked muscles on the inside.

That deep massage can curl the toes!


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## ropensaddle (Jul 9, 2008)

John Paul Sanborn said:


> Especially the one stick at a time drag to the chipper



No not on my watch and if the try it those sticks will get much bigger


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## tree md (Jul 9, 2008)

Funniest thing, Last Summer me and my partner hired a grad student to work with us and he made a great start coming out of the gate. He was 29, ex KU football player and power lifter. I am 39 and my partner is 46. We had several trees to remove from a property and the temp was 106 that day. That morning the guy was running to load brush and logs and saying come on pops to me and my partner. By noon I was cutting and loading a small tree from a creek bank on the HO's property and noticed that Mr. piss and vinegar had disappeared on me. I hollered for him and my partner hollered back to me that he was stroking out on us. I walked up to the house to find him on his back laying in the shade on the deck. I was too worried about him at the time to make any wise cracks as he was ghost white but as soon as he recovered I made a point of telling him to get it in gear pops  . That was the last day he worked with us.


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## JeffL (Jul 9, 2008)

Funny this thread was just posted. We had one guy in pretty rough shape yesterday, we made him sit in the shade for awhile yesterday and made sure he was hydrating himself. Kept complaining of dizziness and lightheaded, pale as a ghost.

He came in today, apparently by 930 this morning he was puking nonstop and ended up falling asleep in the truck and stayed there all day. Poor bastard. He wasnt with my crew today, but the few guys I had with me today I made sure to remind them constantly to go take a few minutes out of the sun and put some water in themselves.

"But I'm not thirsty." Well by the time you're thirsty, you're already dehydrated nimrod!


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## Sunrise Guy (Jul 9, 2008)

The (formerly) puking guy showed up today and did a great job. He took breaks with us, for water, and every hour, or so, he hosed himself down using the garden hose. He kept up with us and will be back, tomorrow. I give him credit for adjusting so well, today. I'm sure my taking the time to give him some tips about hydrating and then asking him, fairly often, how he was feeling, showed him that I actually cared about him as an individual. He's a good guy, knows his trees, and I hope he hangs in there. As he is a surveyor looking for full-time work, he'll probably be gone in another few days. The better ones sure seem to come and go pretty quickly. The losers hang around until you can 'em.


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## silk (Jul 9, 2008)

I remember the first week on the job as the new brush mule I could not believe how hot the slash pants were and my boots filled up so fast I thought I had jumped into knee deep water.

The guys were as mean as hell to me, making me buck down this stump that was held together by GIANT black ants. They were in my mouth, ears and nose. 

The dude who delivered the pizza for lunch would not come near me to collect money with all the ants crawling on me.

the look on his face was enough to have me smiling inside all day long.

When we have new ground crew in training we are lucky to have 2 out of 10 stay past the first week.

To do this job for the long haul you must have soul of a draft horse


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## Scots Climber (Jul 9, 2008)

I started in the forest thinning and commercial logging Picea Sitchensis, cutting, snedding, chipping and stacking.

When I started climbing I couldn't understand why so many young fit guys came and went... 

The main difference for me at least, having worked in Scotland for the last 4 years, is the heat combined with the humidity. Climbing in the UK we have to wear Class C "All Round PPE". Not having to wear heavy Aramid trousers and boots does help, a little. 

I'm an ex soldier, so maybe it is just frame of mind, maybe it's because I work for myself... You just plough through the jobs.


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## Bermie (Jul 9, 2008)

What's the old ditty:

'Horses sweat,
Men perspire,
Women merely glow...' 

I was on full glow today, you might have even thought I was a bloke with the amount of moisture cascading down my brow!! Two cokes with ice, gatorade, and water, ice on my neck and head... 
So many people do not understand how to work in the heat and humidity, you HAVE to pace yourself and keep the fluids going in. Water is not enough you need some electrolytes too, a gatorade, a banana, potassium tablet, something.
I have two water bottles in the freezer tonight, getting ready for tomorrow!

I've had girlfriends call up and complain I sent their boyfriends home broken at the end of the day!


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## memetic (Jul 9, 2008)

"I've had girlfriends call up and complain I sent their boyfriends home broken at the end of the day!"

Dammmnnn.


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## ropensaddle (Jul 9, 2008)

JeffL said:


> Funny this thread was just posted. We had one guy in pretty rough shape yesterday, we made him sit in the shade for awhile yesterday and made sure he was hydrating himself. Kept complaining of dizziness and lightheaded, pale as a ghost.
> 
> He came in today, apparently by 930 this morning he was puking nonstop and ended up falling asleep in the truck and stayed there all day. Poor bastard. He wasnt with my crew today, but the few guys I had with me today I made sure to remind them constantly to go take a few minutes out of the sun and put some water in themselves.
> 
> "But I'm not thirsty." Well by the time you're thirsty, you're already dehydrated nimrod!



Golly if they can't hack it up north they would not last ten minutes here.
Most times our lows are your highs. It is always lovely to awake at 5:30
step outside and get hit with 85 with 90% humidity knowing it is going
to be 100+ by 10:30 am and stay that way all day!


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## Sunrise Guy (Jul 10, 2008)

ropensaddle said:


> Golly if they can't hack it up north they would not last ten minutes here.
> Most times our lows are your highs. It is always lovely to awake at 5:30
> step outside and get hit with 85 with 90% humidity knowing it is going
> to be 100+ by 10:30 am and stay that way all day!



Brother, ain't that the truth! Austin's June, this year, averaged 97 degrees! The humidity stayed pretty low, for Austin, but the heat was there, nonetheless. Now, the humidity is starting to get back into the usual, for summer, 85-90% range. Temps are forecasted to be in the 100's for the next few days. I always tell people, "Hey, most of my work is almost always in the shade, so it's not too bad." Of course, when you're at the top, pruning out dead stuff or picking ball moss, and the sun is slowly baking your brain while the humidity is choking your lungs, then it gets a wee bit intense, right? Think I'll goose my schedule around and take this Friday off. Ah the pleasures of calling your own shots! Funny though, when I do take a day off, I find myself doing 2-3 hours of paperwork, filing, etc., or chasing down bids. Yeah, real relaxing!


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## BC WetCoast (Jul 10, 2008)

I have it distinctly written in my employment contract that I'm not supposed to sweat. And one of these days I'm going to enforce that clause.

No kidding

I really mean it.


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## ropensaddle (Jul 10, 2008)

Sunrise Guy said:


> Brother, ain't that the truth! Austin's June, this year, averaged 97 degrees! The humidity stayed pretty low, for Austin, but the heat was there, nonetheless. Now, the humidity is starting to get back into the usual, for summer, 85-90% range. Temps are forecasted to be in the 100's for the next few days. I always tell people, "Hey, most of my work is almost always in the shade, so it's not too bad." Of course, when you're at the top, pruning out dead stuff or picking ball moss, and the sun is slowly baking your brain while the humidity is choking your lungs, then it gets a wee bit intense, right? Think I'll goose my schedule around and take this Friday off. Ah the pleasures of calling your own shots! Funny though, when I do take a day off, I find myself doing 2-3 hours of paperwork, filing, etc., or chasing down bids. Yeah, real relaxing!



Yeah its rough in south Texas I worked there back in the hottest
summer on record in 80 something, over a hundred like 90 straight
days with Gulf humidity not for me that is too hot too long.


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## Scots Climber (Jul 10, 2008)

Yeah, I've also had irate girlfriends and mothers on the phone complaining about the treatment their "men" have received 

I use my Military issue 3l Camelbak filled with Gatorade, or similar, and ice. Recently I have invested in a gas cooler to keep another 3-6l of water, fruit and my lunch from becoming tepid mush.

Climbing in shorts also seems to help


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## ropensaddle (Jul 10, 2008)

Scots Climber said:


> Yeah, I've also had irate girlfriends and mothers on the phone complaining about the treatment their "men" have received
> 
> I use my Military issue 3l Camelbak filled with Gatorade, or similar, and ice. Recently I have invested in a gas cooler to keep another 3-6l of water, fruit and my lunch from becoming tepid mush.
> 
> Climbing in shorts also seems to help



:hmm3grin2orange: shorts thats too funny I could just picture
me in cutoffs, climb boots and my biz tee and cowboy hard hat.
I would be one hot dude with the ladies though


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## Texas Chainsaw (Jul 10, 2008)

Everyone should know how hard working in tree service is, rather your climbing, rigging, chipping brush or dragging it. I've been in this business 5 yrs. now and I have learned how to pace myself. I use to work in doors at a retail store. Didn't have the slightest idea what I was getting myself into untill I did the physical work. I sweat the gallons of my ass and scrapped by arms and legs and knew this wasn't an easy task. I was working 2 jobs when I started at 22. No one has 2 jobs working from 4am - 9am. I worked for Coca Cola part time and dragged brush, and climbed in the field of trees. The worst part of it were the long summer days having 4-5hr. sleep. I still managed to go out to the club and hang out with friends but not every weekend. Not now, all I do now is drive around town selling jobs for the following.


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## VTclimber (Jul 10, 2008)

When I first started I was fresh out of college, a 5'6" 110 lb little girl. My first day was in January, there was a fresh foot or so of snow on the ground and we removed a 32 inch white oak up a hill in a backyard. I was soaked and felt like someone beat me by the end of the day. I remember vividly telling my now husband at the end of the day that I wasn't sure if I could actually do this job. But I kept going back. 

A few months later, I liked it so much, and talked about it so much that the man quit his job and came to work with me. Its great work as long as you can figure out how to do it.....and theres beer at the end of the day.


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## Sunrise Guy (Jul 10, 2008)

*Update on barfing guy---*

He called me this morning, at 6:45 AM, to let me know that he's unable to move and that he's "Too old for the job." At 42, in the shape he's apparently in, I guess he's right. Ten minutes after he called, the other guy that started with him called to let me know he's done. I went and picked up two guys at Home Depot who worked their butts off, never complained, both worked the chainsaws well, and we finished up a couple of hours ahead of schedule.


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## Bermie (Jul 10, 2008)

VTclimber said:


> When I first started I was fresh out of college, a 5'6" 110 lb little girl. My first day was in January, there was a fresh foot or so of snow on the ground and we removed a 32 inch white oak up a hill in a backyard. I was soaked and felt like someone beat me by the end of the day. I remember vividly telling my now husband at the end of the day that I wasn't sure if I could actually do this job. But I kept going back.
> 
> A few months later, I liked it so much, and talked about it so much that the man quit his job and came to work with me. Its great work as long as you can figure out how to do it.....and theres beer at the end of the day.



Another 'glowing' example of women in the trees!
Welcome, and here's your beer


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## Houthakker (Jul 10, 2008)

first you learn to work, then you learn the job
if you can't work, you can't do the job no matter how simple or complicated
i never minded teaching the job to others, but they have to know how to work first (and teaching that ain't my job)

in tree work you generally know pretty soon if someone's shown up prepared to work and whether its worth teaching them the job

i don't mind people who can't work, probably it ain't their fault anyway
i just don't want them practicing it on my time, my job


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## Scots Climber (Jul 10, 2008)

ropensaddle said:


> :hmm3grin2orange: shorts thats too funny I could just picture
> me in cutoffs, climb boots and my biz tee and cowboy hard hat.
> I would be one hot dude with the ladies though



Oh you have no idea, mate 

I usually look like I've fallen out of a tree anyway...
...but seriously, I've been doing a lot of small jobs that only require hand saws recently


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## Gumnuts (Jul 10, 2008)

Salt tablets help -- in my teens, school holidays,job working next to a smelter.
mixing and dragging the slag on top .Compulsory stops
every hour or 2 when we were given 2 or 3 salt tabs.
Fluids and salt, still do it when muling and uphill hot ones .Fifty -three now.
Nothing like the end of a good day ,hard at it, sweating, body maxed, strip off
and know that you can still 'cut the mustard' with seasoned workers half yr age.Have a mate 77 yo he's the same.


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## treemandan (Jul 10, 2008)

TreeCo said:


> Be really careful about letting people cool down using the AC in a non moving vehicle. I've heard of several deaths from CO poisoning.



Yes, maybe a few minutes to cool down but just some shade and cool water is most likely better. There are always garden hose which work just as well. Sitting in a running vehicle makes you sleepy in a bad way. 
I do feel bad about evrybody though, hearing about all this suffering from the heat after I just got back from the beach  Well don't feel too bad cause now I'm back and within the next few hours my shirts will reak from the mixing of sawdust and sweat. I call it Ode' de dog####.


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## Sunrise Guy (Jul 10, 2008)

Houthakker said:


> first you learn to work, then you learn the job
> if you can't work, you can't do the job no matter how simple or complicated
> i never minded teaching the job to others, but they have to know how to work first (and teaching that ain't my job)
> 
> ...



I like the way you put that, man. You really have hit on a universal truth: If you know how to work, you can learn, and do, any job. Very cool. Thanks!


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## JeffL (Jul 10, 2008)

Sunrise Guy said:


> I like the way you put that, man. You really have hit on a universal truth: If you know how to work, you can learn, and do, any job. Very cool. Thanks!



Same, I may mention that to my boss tomorrow. He's always throwing up "inspirational" quotes around the shop and in the office. I'm a "whiner" because I'm sick of getting lazy ass high schoolers and fresh out of college kids to work with that dont know a rake from a peavey, and have no interest in discerning the difference.

I told him I can only tell and show someone so many times how to do something before I just plain give up. Its not THAT hard.


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## capetrees (Jul 11, 2008)

Endurance is always the trick in this biz. Up and down the hills dragging brush, climbing up and down trees, all very physical. Strength is important but more important is edurance. Learned that when I used to wrestle in school. Pound for pound, wrestlers are matched fairly even when it comes to muscle mass but its how you use it and how long you can last that wins out.


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## Nailsbeats (Jul 11, 2008)

Good point Cape, I come from a family of excellent wrestlers, I think that's part of why we like this work. Endurance, strength, technique, perseverance. I always refer to it as "wrestling the trees".


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## Tree Machine (Jul 11, 2008)

Wrestling was my background in HS and college. High-intensity, six minutes.
Later in life I found adventure racing, continuous intensity, six days.

Tree work is a nice blend in between, with a shower guaranteed at the end of the day.

My recent hire is a 20 yr old college girl, my first female brush pilot. She walked up to my job site one day and I said, "So you're here to help feed the chipper!", jokingly I might add. She wasn't joking. I hired her within 1 minute of meeting her. We did a three hour interview and began work the next day, a crane job getting a tree off a house. 

She has been one of the most enjoyable hires yet to date. She's been able to do everything asked of her and engages the public really well, freeing me up to do the treeguy thing and not bust the groove. She fully gets the safety issues and communicating with traffic and such. She doesn't try to over-do it, physically, looks for the efficient means in all she does and isn't thrashed by the end of the day when I need that last push.

Tough work, our industry, but a good attitude and pride in your work trumps piss and vinegar any day.

Girls rock.


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## memetic (Jul 11, 2008)

Right on capetrees. I see it all the time. Endurance always wins. Muscle up front ain't jack to it. Neither is youth. Breathe...Breathe...

The owner and teacher of our gym is a black belt under Carlson Gracie (RIP) and both of them told us that endurance is key. You can be the biggest badarse around, but if you lose your wind after a few minutes you're done.

Can't tell you how many times I've seen muscle bounds and young guys buckle after 1-2 minutes of serious play. 

It's the same for tree work, except the trees ain't grappling or hitting back, so the time is usually 1-2 hours before tapout. 

The only workers we have who can stand up to the job are from below the border. They are great guys, they know their shiiite, and can last the day with me and my partner without tapping or puking out. Shiite, some of them barely drink that much water. I have no idea how they do that.


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## toddstreeservic (Jul 11, 2008)

opcorn: We have seen trees on houses. Got any pics of the new employee? opcorn:


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## memetic (Jul 11, 2008)

toddstreeservic said:


> opcorn: We have seen trees on houses. Got any pics of the new employee? opcorn:



Si, yo tambien...


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## mckeetree (Jul 12, 2008)

ropensaddle said:


> Yeah its rough in south Texas I worked there back in the hottest
> summer on record in 80 something, over a hundred like 90 straight
> days with Gulf humidity not for me that is too hot too long.



I remember that summer. 1980. I was 19 back then and working for Park Cities Tree Care in Dallas. Man that was hot. But you know when you think about it this work is not that rough actually if the weather is halfway decent. I hired this kid about my second year in business that hardly would even take a break. I asked him didn't he get tired and he said this is easy and I am telling you this guy could work. I had just fired a couple transient workers from San Antonio and he could have made four of them. He explained to me later he had been hauling hay for a living and then it made sense why he thought tree work was easy. I can think of a lot of jobs worse than tree work. If it was very rough I couldn't still do it.


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## Sunrise Guy (Jul 12, 2008)

memetic said:


> Right on capetrees. I see it all the time. Endurance always wins. Muscle up front ain't jack to it. Neither is youth. Breathe...Breathe...
> 
> The owner and teacher of our gym is a black belt under Carlson Gracie (RIP) and both of them told us that endurance is key. You can be the biggest badarse around, but if you lose your wind after a few minutes you're done.
> 
> ...



Interesting comments about endurance and wrestling, in some of the posts, above. I also wrestled in high school and college.

Yep, I agree about our Hispanic brothers. I just had two get through a rough day without one complaint. I'm using one of them this Monday, if he shows up at HD for the pick-up.


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## oldirty (Jul 12, 2008)

Sunrise Guy said:


> Interesting comments about endurance and wrestling, in some of the posts, above. I also wrestled in high school and college.
> 
> Yep, I agree about our Hispanic brothers. I just had two get through a rough day without one complaint. I'm using one of them this Monday, if he shows up at HD for the pick-up.




100% legal too right?


hey TM, i worked with a bird when i was in AK a few months ago. she didnt really like being around the chipper when the winch was being used but she could work. much better than almost the rest of the crew. i was impressed.


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## TimberMcPherson (Jul 12, 2008)

I think 10 guys will do 7 guys worth of work as theres always slackers but 10 guys plus one girl will do 15 guys worth of work, because even the slackers dont want to look like #####s.

With the army I found that if you had a big group of guys it could be trouble. They would sometimes get aggressive, skive or just generally not work well together. Put ONE woman amongst them and you could feel the Bu"lsh'T leech out of the group and the teams worked smoothly, harder and more safely.

We are in the middle of winter here, we had a couple of beautiful days sitting on 50, (some real cold days will get down to the high 30's but a bit lower overnight) Makes work great. You can bust your butt without the burn.


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## mckeetree (Jul 12, 2008)

Sunrise Guy said:


> Interesting comments about endurance and wrestling, in some of the posts, above. I also wrestled in high school and college.
> 
> Yep, I agree about our Hispanic brothers. I just had two get through a rough day without one complaint. I'm using one of them this Monday, if he shows up at HD for the pick-up.



So you decided to do the illegal alien deal. Don't get uptight I'm just surprised. But don't make a fool of yourself and say "Oh, but these are the non-illegal Mexicans that hang around HD."


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## Tree Machine (Jul 12, 2008)

toddstreeservic said:


> opcorn: We have seen trees on houses. Got any pics of the new employee? opcorn:





memetic said:


> Si, yo tambien...


Well, OK.


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## Tree Machine (Jul 12, 2008)

OK, I'm being silly.

I happen to know for a fact that that is a picture of Timber McPherson's motorcycle mechanic.


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## Grace Tree (Jul 12, 2008)

You might as well fire her. She don't even know she's supposed to be pointed in the other direction.
Phil


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## toddstreeservic (Jul 12, 2008)

Tree Machine said:


> Wrestling was my background in HS and college. High-intensity, six minutes.
> Later in life I found adventure racing, continuous intensity, six days.
> 
> Tree work is a nice blend in between, with a shower guaranteed at the end of the day.
> ...



OK after the picture I reread you origional post and a few things are starting to make more sense. 

1. you said:
"I hired her within 1 minute of meeting her. We did a three hour interview and began work the next day"
Hmmmm.
2. you said: "She has been one of the most enjoyable hires yet to date" hmmmm.
3. you said: "She's been able to do everything asked of her" Hmmmm.
4. and you said: " isn't thrashed by the end of the day when I need that last push" Hmmmmm.

Sounds like she is a keeper!


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## Nailsbeats (Jul 12, 2008)

Those are fake!


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## Grace Tree (Jul 12, 2008)

Not fake------just customized; like the bike.
Phil


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## Sunrise Guy (Jul 12, 2008)

mckeetree said:


> So you decided to do the illegal alien deal. Don't get uptight I'm just surprised. But don't make a fool of yourself and say "Oh, but these are the non-illegal Mexicans that hang around HD."



I have tried to use legal folks for a good deal of time, now.

Being in "Big D," I'm sure you know that Austin is a "safe haven" city. I went to the city-run temp places and expected to be able to hire legal workers. WRONG! Even there, believe it or not, the illegals are not only protected, but are given a quasi-legal type right to work status. I could not believe it when the director told me, "We don't worry about their immigration status. It's not our concern."

Ok, wise one, so what the :censored: am I supposed to do? I have tried to use legal workers, and all have worked out for :censored: ! If it is a matter of: use anyone I can find who is actually capable of doing the job or do the job myself and risk killing myself, literally, from overwork, I will hire the guys willing and able to do the job every :censored: ing time! I ask for SSN and DL numbers on my sub-contractor's agreement to terms sheets. I get them and that's what is required. I check them online, and if they don't check out, I don't use the same guy again. I try, man, I really try.

Good for you, up in Dallas, if you NEVER use anyone of questionable legal status. Never? Uh, I think I'll call you a liar. Sorry if I have that wrong.

One more thing, oh ye who judges: Remember, I was left high and dry, an hour before the gig, by both guys who started it, the day before. I do advertise for only those with legal status, but this was a gig where I was in a bind and I had to do what I had to do. If that surprises you, I have to wonder how long you've actually been in the trees.


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## treemandan (Jul 12, 2008)

Sunrise Guy said:


> I have tried to use legal folks for a good deal of time, now.
> 
> Being in "Big D," I'm sure you know that Austin is a "safe haven" city. I went to the city-run temp places and expected to be able to hire legal workers. WRONG! Even there, believe it or not, the illegals are not only protected, but are given a quasi-legal type right to work status. I could not believe it when the director told me, "We don't worry about their immigration status. It's not our concern."
> 
> ...



Allright! This is good, vent it out, its true. 
sometimes I think the mexicans should be invited in. Hey, they at least show the F up for work AND BUST ASS AND play soccer with their famlies on the weekends.
If I get stuck. which isn't to often , I go right up to the rental yard and ask what Jose's dad is up to. He is a good person AND he really works. I can go through 16 little white boys who talk about video games all day and wig out after an hour in the sun. some of those little white boys have big muscles and really scary tatoos. Very scary, I am afraid. What a bunch of big pussies. Don't get me started. I know I act like a prima-donna , mostly just for fun but... with me its just an act.
Anyone of those white boys would do great with a chipper, some saws, an air conditioned Ford and a crew full of mexicans!
Now take my boy Nailsy. Go get em tiger!


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## treemandan (Jul 12, 2008)

It seems like the only people bothered about using mexican labor are the ones who ain't making it. Or something like that.
I can't think of one business, big or small, who doesn't " utilize". I don't like that fact that business owners take advantage and try to pay them dirt. That is why the NEED for them is so strong.
You aren't going to get a smart American to kill himself unless he beleives he is going to really profit AND it shouldn't be expceted. I mean; What are YOUR standards? 
Right now my mindset is: I need to make certain ammount to survive and thrive. I won't bust my ass for chump change and put up with someone elses BS because they feel I should cause they pay me.
If I was coming out of mexico my mindset would be different. 
If you want to have nice clean American boys and girls drag your brush on a full time basis they are going to want a lot of money and a lot more respect.
This has been the case since the dawn of time. Can't find someone to build it go steal someone else. Slaves, poor immigrants or someone in a lesser position. Position? That is what its all about.
Oh God, what a topic.


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## Sunrise Guy (Jul 12, 2008)

treemandan said:


> Allright! This is good, vent it out, its true.
> sometimes I think the mexicans should be invited in. Hey, they at least show the F up for work AND BUST ASS AND play soccer with their famlies on the weekends.
> If I get stuck. which isn't to often , I go right up to the rental yard and ask what Jose's dad is up to. He is a good person AND he really works. I can go through 16 little white boys who talk about video games all day and wig out after an hour in the sun. some of those little white boys have big muscles and really scary tatoos. Very scary, I am afraid. What a bunch of big pussies. Don't get me started. I know I act like a prima-donna , mostly just for fun but... with me its just an act.
> Anyone of those white boys would do great with a chipper, some saws, an air conditioned Ford and a crew full of mexicans!
> Now take my boy Nailsy. Go get em tiger!



I didn't want to get into racial-type issues, but I will, here, only to say this: In general, White guys are pussies, in general, Black guys slack off as soon as they think you're not watching, in general, Hispanic guys bust their butts and get the job done! I know I'm being guilty of stereotyping here and I am not so narrow-minded, or so ignorant, or such a bigot as to thoroughly embrace the same. However, no matter what anyone else says, here, stereotypes do die hard, sadly. I've seen it over and over and over and -----------


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## mckeetree (Jul 12, 2008)

Sunrise Guy said:


> I have tried to use legal folks for a good deal of time, now.
> 
> Being in "Big D," I'm sure you know that Austin is a "safe haven" city. I went to the city-run temp places and expected to be able to hire legal workers. WRONG! Even there, believe it or not, the illegals are not only protected, but are given a quasi-legal type right to work status. I could not believe it when the director told me, "We don't worry about their immigration status. It's not our concern."
> 
> ...



Well I know Austin is a safe haven city. Dallas is too. I don't have any easy answers and I'm not trying to judge you . I personally don't think more or less of you regardless of the legal status of who you hire. I was,however, a little surprised because based on your past post you seemed like an anti illegal type guy for some reason. Could have just been my imagination. As far as who works here we have been really lucky. My Hispanics have green cards and SSN and they all check out. We have had some of the same guys for years. One guy has worked for me for 21 years. He turned 40 this month.As far as you wondering how long I have been in this business? 22 years as far as being in business for myself goes.


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## Sunrise Guy (Jul 12, 2008)

mckeetree said:


> Well I know Austin is a safe haven city. Dallas is too. I don't have any easy answers and I'm not trying to judge you . I personally don't think more or less of you regardless of the legal status of who you hire. I was,however, a little surprised because based on your past post you seemed like an anti illegal type guy for some reason. Could have just been my imagination. As far as who works here we have been really lucky. My Hispanics have green cards and SSN and they all check out. We have had some of the same guys for years. One guy has worked for me for 21 years. He turned 40 this month.As far as you wondering how long I have been in this business? 22 years as far as being in business for myself goes.



I appreciate your reply, above. I know we could have gotten into an ugly exchange, yet you exercised restraint, and I respect you for it.

You are correct: I am, for the most part, "an anti-illegal type guy." I do try, as I previously stated, to make sure everyone checks out, when it comes to legal status. Lately, with the guys I have hired who do check out, I just have had a run of bad luck. The fellows I used the other day were, surely, of "questionable" legal status. I had them fill out my forms, and off we went. I will run their numbers and very likely find that they are no good. It happens. The sad thing is, if these guys would go the legal route and succeed, something I understand is getting harder all of the time, they would do just fine, here. There has to be some sort of program worked out. I only wish I knew what it should be. I doubt anyone actually knows, for sure.


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## Nailsbeats (Jul 12, 2008)

Here's my proposed solution. Kick the illegal Mexicans out of this country, and all other illegals immigrants for that matter. Mom and dad's business will be in a pinch, $hit will hit the fan and then the video game playing pansy boys of this new generation will have to work.

Problem, this solution is not politically correct so the people pleasing pansy boy politicians would never pass such legislation. It would probably put their financial interests in a pinch too, for a while.

So here we sit.

As far as I can tell most of the second generation Mexicans in this country are no better than the rest of the dead weight. Worthless gangstas. Mom and Pop get it, somehow it doesn't translate.


Oh yeah, I appreciate the shout out Dan.


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## treemandan (Jul 12, 2008)

Nailsbeats said:


> Here's my proposed solution. Kick the illegal Mexicans out of this country, and all other illegals immigrants for that matter. Mom and dad's business will be in a pinch, $hit will hit the fan and then the video game playing pansy boys of this new generation will have to work.
> 
> Problem, this solution is not politically correct so the people pleasing pansy boy politicians would never pass such legislation. It would probably put their financial interests in a pinch too, for a while.
> 
> ...



Keep in mind the country was founded by immigrants who were made to pay a high price. 
These new immigrants are doing the jobs that the sons of the old immigrants are now to good for.


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## TreeBot (Jul 12, 2008)

treemandan said:


> Keep in mind the country was founded by immigrants who were made to pay a high price.
> These new immigrants are doing the jobs that the sons of the old immigrants are now to good for



Too good to do them for $6 an hour and ride to work in a horse trailer anyway.


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## TreeBot (Jul 12, 2008)

TreeBot said:


> Too good to do them for $6 an hour and ride to work in a horse trailer anyway.



My girfriend actually got stuck behind a horse trailer full of Mexicans in Arkansas. I am sure the farmer who was toting them around really needed their help, and it's not really all that dangerous if you are careful, put pumpkins in there and it is no worse than a hayride, right?

Still, I think we need to have some sorts of minimum standards for workers in America. I really have no idea how to decide exactly what they should be, and I think for the most part people shuold be left to decide for themselves, but I think that whatever the standard is it needs to be higher than having people riding around in a livestock trailer.


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## memetic (Jul 12, 2008)

"As far as I can tell most of the second generation Mexicans in this country are no better than the rest of the dead weight. Worthless gangstas. Mom and Pop get it, somehow it doesn't translate."

Nailsbeats, that's the only point you made I agree with. But, keep in mind that all those second generation people are not illegal immigrants or hard workers. They are usually US citizens born and raised. That's the problem. 

We have white guys calling all the time for a job, willing to work for the same money our below the border guys will. Guess who we choose 99% of the time. That's right, the guys who can get the job done. And usually, they are better people as well.


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## mckeetree (Jul 13, 2008)

TreeBot said:


> Too good to do them for $6 an hour and ride to work in a horse trailer anyway.



That was funny. Sad thing is it is reality. I saw a load of them last month piled into what I would call an old hog trailer near Crandall, Texas. Must have been 15 of them in there.


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## TimberMcPherson (Jul 13, 2008)

Tree Machine said:


> OK, I'm being silly.
> 
> I happen to know for a fact that that is a picture of Timber McPherson's motorcycle mechanic.



Man I am going to go in to get work done more often.....


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## booboo (Jul 13, 2008)

I'll stay out of the immigration discussion, I have my opinions but this isn't the time or place.

We've had very few young guys that can keep up with what we do. We do very well with retired blue collar types working part time. Seems to be a generational thing, and their generation was/is willing to work. At 60 running ropes, dragging brush and bucking logs is a challenge that our guys seem to enjoy, and they're always up for a beer at the end of the day.

I'm surprised how many here were wrestlers. I was too, in high school. Also raced BMX bikes. Was never terribly good at either though!

And one of the best climbers I ever was around was a woman who was maybe 5'2" and 110 lbs. Smooth, fast, and super strong. It has nothing to do with gender if you're good, just some brains and desire. Unfortunately we went different directions many years ago.

Oh, yeah...I think I need a motorcycle...

:rockn:


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## CLEARVIEW TREE (Jul 13, 2008)

Great thread. Yes it's true that most kids these days only ace the video games and bossing there parents. Hard work makes em or breaks em in the end. The other day my 17 yr old helper literally looked like a zombie! I asked him what was up and he said he felt like hell! I said daniel, have you drank fluids? Yes, he replied. What did you eat for breakfast daniel? I ate doughn uts and coke! I was like oh my gosh are you crazy or what? His parents, even though good ones had never taught him proper nutrition at all. He said flat out that he didn't know that kinda meal was not fit to eat before work! Just goes to show that hydration and a proper diet of COMPLEX CARBOHYDRATES go hand in hand for nesc. energy in our line of work. I eat oatmeal every morning with a glass of milk and fruit, and try to have some pasta and protein or somethin for dinner. Recently on a sunday morning a friend and i went canoeing, and honestly did not know that where we put in was river mile#2 and exit was river mile #28. Well we figured it out at 9:10 p.m. that eve, totally bookin it when we heard we had traveled 26 miles in 8.5 hrs! The next day i was draggin brush and climbin trees, my usual monkeying around! Moral to the story is, that would not have been possible without a PROPER DIET AND HYDRATION. If any of you are unsure about health and fitness and where to get started, get your hands on a copy of the Glycemic Index, it basically shows foods that burn faster and the ones that burn slower( these are the ones that get you through the day). I keep the trucks stocked with high energy foods like clif bars,HOMEMADE jerky, granola,etc. I'll tell ya that there are times when i'm in a tree that eating some carbs makes me feel so much better! Gatorade and powerade are far superior to water by the way!


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## custom8726 (Jul 13, 2008)

booboo said:


> I'll stay out of the immigration discussion, I have my opinions but this isn't the time or place.
> 
> We've had very few young guys that can keep up with what we do. We do very well with retired blue collar types working part time. Seems to be a generational thing, and their generation was/is willing to work. At 60 running ropes, dragging brush and bucking logs is a challenge that our guys seem to enjoy, and they're always up for a beer at the end of the day.
> 
> ...



Add me too the list of high school wrestlers, I also raced motocross and some GNCC's in the past. Still Race once or twice a year but with more and more responsibility's accumulating it's tuff to justify the extra risk these days.
As far as mexicans being hard workers for penny's it depends on where you are. I noticed a huge difference in the character from the new york mexican workers VS when I was in CALI, working. Like every one else its more of a UP bringing and generational thing then a Hispanic,blk, or white thing, IMO...


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## kennertree (Jul 13, 2008)

custom8726 said:


> Add me too the list of high school wrestlers, I also raced motocross and some GNCC's in the past. Still Race once or twice a year but with more and more responsibility's accumulating it's tuff to justify the extra risk these days.
> As far as mexicans being hard workers for penny's it depends on where you are. I noticed a huge difference in the character from the new york mexican workers VS when I was in CALI, working. Like every one else its more of a UP bringing and generational thing then a Hispanic,blk, or white thing, IMO...



Put me on that list of wrestlers too. I think it's one of the toughest sports, reminds me alot of tree work.


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## Nailsbeats (Jul 13, 2008)

Put me on the list of motorcycle guys. I have had 11 or so from street bikes, to dirt bikes to crotch rockets. Last ones I had were a KX250 and a Yamaha R1. Now I have kids.


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## CLEARVIEW TREE (Jul 13, 2008)

kennertree said:


> Put me on that list of wrestlers too. I think it's one of the toughest sports, reminds me alot of tree work.


Duggy,you can't forget grappling either. At Camp LeJeune the USMC Combat Hitting Skills Instructors would show us some real neat groundwork, it was the bulk of the MCMAP training we did.Mostly Brazillian Jiu Jitsu based holds, takedowns, arm bars,etc. and unlike wrestling, we're beating the hell out of each other at the same time too! Pretty tough stuff too man.


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## 318firebug49 (Jul 13, 2008)

*Taught to work*

Great post ladies and gents!

I work in a variety of area's when I am off duty, basically whatever it takes to make a buck for the family. Couple of buddies recently had the discussion that the current trend is for the kids to stay home or at the daycare- safe and sound- while Dad and sometimes Mom, work all day to provide for them. Result of this scenario is- the kids never get to see what work is all about, or how to push through when the going gets tough. I, as well as the guys that I partner with on my days off from the fire department, grew up on family owned farms/ranches. Our fathers taught us a strong work ethic and to respect those around me- both young and old- from a very early age and they also taught us that respect had to be earned, that it was never given. Most of the kids that I have tried to get to help- whether they were looking for just a summer job or a career- didn't seem to respect anything around them, much less have the self respect and discipline needed to make it through a day. I have been a mentor for several challenged kids in our area and the one thing that they have all had in common is that their parents- while loving them- never took the time to raise them- they were and still are good monetary providers that gave the kids a safe haven as a home- but they never really took the time to teach them how to work, respect themselves and generally give a #@* about anything. We never had an allowance growing up- if you wanted to go on a date you have to find something extra outside of the farm- after your farm duties were done-to pay for the date, I used to work at a local sale barn on the night shift two nights a week to get money to go see a movie with my girl on the weekend. The general talk in the health industry is about childhood obesity. I didn't see much of that growing up because we stayed busy, if nothing else we cleaned the house for mom when she worked so she could take a break when she got home. I really think if parents started taking time for their children and to be with their children- teach them that it totally o.k.to get a little dirty with at least a little yard work and gave them chores to do with you instead of waiting on them hand a foot or having them do it on their own-you might see a change in our upcomming generation- heck, keep them so busy that they don't have time to get into any mischief!! And you end up with a person that has the drive and ambition to see a situation through to the end, stop taking things for granted and not give out when the going gets a little tough!!


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## Nailsbeats (Jul 13, 2008)

memetic said:


> "As far as I can tell most of the second generation Mexicans in this country are no better than the rest of the dead weight. Worthless gangstas. Mom and Pop get it, somehow it doesn't translate."
> 
> Nailsbeats, that's the only point you made I agree with. But, keep in mind that all those second generation people are not illegal immigrants or hard workers. They are usually US citizens born and raised. That's the problem.
> 
> We have white guys calling all the time for a job, willing to work for the same money our below the border guys will. Guess who we choose 99% of the time. That's right, the guys who can get the job done. And usually, they are better people as well.




Yeah that's my point, it's the generation that are born as US citizens that suck. I will say most, not all, cause I'm 27 and a lot of my generation sucks, but not near as bad as the current lineup. These kids don't know how to eat, dress, work, communicate, litteral zombies. With the lack of real fathers, queers on tv, and broken families, it's no wonder to me. Yeah I was a teenager too, but I always worked my a$$ off. I would screw up at times but it was my work ethic that kept it together. 

I have a 1 1/2 year old that already helps me pick up brush and firewood. As a matter of fact, the kid is hanging off me right now, telling me to get outside and work. We have a trailer to move and a load of firewood to unload and mom's at work. I'm setting a bad example on this stupid computer, I know.

I know some young guys in town that come from broken homes, I put them to work and try to teach them what I can, but man it can be trying doing their fathers job. I got the one a .22 long rifle for small game hunting, and shooting, when he comes over we shoot at my 100 yard target behind my house. This is stuff a father should be doing.


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## mckeetree (Jul 13, 2008)

booboo said:


> I'll stay out of the immigration discussion, I have my opinions but this isn't the time or place.
> 
> 
> Then when is the time or place? I for one would like to hear your opinions. I think our government takes a isn't the time or place stance on illegal immigration. It reminds me of a great big pile of sh!t that keeps building up by someones backdoor and the patriarch of the family says "We will deal with it later, this isn't the time or place." And later on the wife says "My God, Bob ,that pile of sh!t is coming into the house now." And Bob says "Marge, I told you this was not the time or place to talk about that big pile of sh!t. Go sprinkle something on it." Well enough of my analogies but the fact is the problem is serious enough that anytime and anyplace are suitable to discuss something that has become an issue that demands immediacy.


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## 318firebug49 (Jul 13, 2008)

*Oh yea almost forgot..*

Talking about the heat..

Average temp here at 1:00pm for the last few weeks has been 98. Heat index is around 108-112. I have found that carrying a few changes of clothing has helped tremendously- I usually go through 3 pair of jeans, 3-4 shirts and several pair of socks a day. Did a little studing on hydration, recommendations that I found were 12-15 ounces of water every 30 minutes with a ration of 2 water per 1 electrolyte replacement( gatoraid, poweraid, etc) I have also found that v-8 juice and canned pineapple slices do wonders for a little energy push in the afternoon. I also keep an I.V bag of 500ml normal saline in the event that I get severly dehydrated- some of the areas that we work in are very remote......


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## Nailsbeats (Jul 13, 2008)

For those really tough days I hook myself up to the IV and the oxygen tank. Little clumsy to work in, but really keeps you going.


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## treemandan (Jul 13, 2008)

Nailsbeats said:


> For those really tough days I hook myself up to the IV and the oxygen tank. Little clumsy to work in, but really keeps you going.



Don't laugh to hard that you can't breathe but I had an oxygen tank I used to bring along. I would pull a snort out of it and I would feel a little refreshed Nowadays I just take my time... which is going pretty fast anyway.


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## Nailsbeats (Jul 13, 2008)

treemandan said:


> Don't laugh to hard that you can't breathe but I had an oxygen tank I used to bring along. I would pull a snort out of it and I would feel a little refreshed Nowadays I just take my time... which is going pretty fast anyway.



Dan, 1st gear to you is Overdrive for most of us. And the worst work you've ever done was excellent!


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## RiverRat2 (Jul 13, 2008)

Nailsbeats said:


> Put me on the list of motorcycle guys. I have had 11 or so from street bikes, to dirt bikes to crotch rockets. Last ones I had were a KX250 and a Yamaha R1. Now I have kids.



what do you know about a Yamamoto 150 cc dirt bike,,, it looks alot like a Yamaha????


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## RiverRat2 (Jul 13, 2008)

318firebug49 said:


> Talking about the heat..
> 
> Average temp here at 1:00pm for the last few weeks has been 98. Heat index is around 108-112. I have found that carrying a few changes of clothing has helped tremendously- I usually go through 3 pair of jeans, 3-4 shirts and several pair of socks a day. Did a little studing on hydration, recommendations that I found were 12-15 ounces of water every 30 minutes with a ration of 2 water per 1 electrolyte replacement( gatoraid, poweraid, etc) I have also found that v-8 juice and canned pineapple slices do wonders for a little energy push in the afternoon. I also keep an I.V bag of 500ml normal saline in the event that I get severly dehydrated- some of the areas that we work in are very remote......



Yes and Believe it or not if you get cramped,,,, Pickle Juice will knock em out in a matter of seconds!!!!


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## RiverRat2 (Jul 13, 2008)

Nailsbeats said:


> Yeah that's my point, it's the generation that are born as US citizens that suck. I will say most, not all, cause I'm 27 and a lot of my generation sucks, but not near as bad as the current lineup. These kids don't know how to eat, dress, work, communicate, litteral zombies. With the lack of real fathers, queers on tv, and broken families, it's no wonder to me. Yeah I was a teenager too, but I always worked my a$$ off. I would screw up at times but it was my work ethic that kept it together.
> 
> I have a 1 1/2 year old that already helps me pick up brush and firewood. As a matter of fact, the kid is hanging off me right now, telling me to get outside and work. We have a trailer to move and a load of firewood to unload and mom's at work. I'm setting a bad example on this stupid computer, I know.
> 
> I know some young guys in town that come from broken homes, I put them to work and try to teach them what I can, but man it can be trying doing their fathers job. I got the one a .22 long rifle for small game hunting, and shooting, when he comes over we shoot at my 100 yard target behind my house. This is stuff a father should be doing.



May God Bless you son,,,,, You are doing it right,,,,,,

We do a horrible injustice to our youth by spoiling them,,,, and allowing the liberals you describe to raise kids,,,,,

They need to learn the value of a dollar,,,, and how to earn some instead of playing video games all day,,,,

It makes me feel good to see your post,,,, River Rep incoming!!!!!


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## Nailsbeats (Jul 13, 2008)

RiverRat2 said:


> Yes and Believe it or not if you get cramped,,,, Pickle Juice will knock em out in a matter of seconds!!!!



Hey I learned something today! That's a good tip. I always drink at least half the juice at the end of a quart of pickles. I never knew why, now I have a reason. Thanks for the rep.


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## booboo (Jul 13, 2008)

mckeetree said:


> booboo said:
> 
> 
> > I'll stay out of the immigration discussion, I have my opinions but this isn't the time or place.
> ...


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## memetic (Jul 13, 2008)

For the other (ex)wrestlers out there, hit your closest jiu jitsu gym and take it up a notch - you won't regret it. Try to find a gym where the guys compete. Where I am at we mostly do the NAGA competitions, but a couple guys have been trying out for UFC and the UF show. It's a lot of fun and a lot of great people. 

RE: immigrant workers: you know people who travel thousand of miles (in my location anyway) are ready and able to work hard. They always do here. Can't speak for others.


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## memetic (Jul 13, 2008)

Nailsbeats said:


> Yeah that's my point, it's the generation that are born as US citizens that suck. I will say most, not all, cause I'm 27 and a lot of my generation sucks, but not near as bad as the current lineup. These kids don't know how to eat, dress, work, communicate, litteral zombies. With the lack of real fathers, queers on tv, and broken families, it's no wonder to me. Yeah I was a teenager too, but I always worked my a$$ off. I would screw up at times but it was my work ethic that kept it together.
> 
> I have a 1 1/2 year old that already helps me pick up brush and firewood. As a matter of fact, the kid is hanging off me right now, telling me to get outside and work. We have a trailer to move and a load of firewood to unload and mom's at work. I'm setting a bad example on this stupid computer, I know.
> 
> I know some young guys in town that come from broken homes, I put them to work and try to teach them what I can, but man it can be trying doing their fathers job. I got the one a .22 long rifle for small game hunting, and shooting, when he comes over we shoot at my 100 yard target behind my house. This is stuff a father should be doing.



Right On! That's what I'm talking about - even though I am a liberal (not the kind ur used to though!!!)

I just took my 1 1/2 year old over to see the chipper today. He wanted to see it earlier when it was running. When I started to turn it over he started to yell "BEAST, BEAST". That's what he calls all big power equipment, even shop vacs and my makita saw etc, it's hilarious.


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## kennertree (Jul 13, 2008)

memetic said:


> For the other (ex)wrestlers out there, hit your closest jiu jitsu gym and take it up a notch - you won't regret it. Try to find a gym where the guys compete. Where I am at we mostly do the NAGA competitions, but a couple guys have been trying out for UFC and the UF show. It's a lot of fun and a lot of great people.
> 
> RE: immigrant workers: you know people who travel thousand of miles (in my location anyway) are ready and able to work hard. They always do here. Can't speak for others.



I miss wrestling alot. That jiu jitsu sound like some pretty fun stuff if I had the time to get into it. The one thing I don't miss about wrestling was cutting weight. I've gained 65 pounds since HS and not a whole lot of fat. How much weight have some of you other wrestlers gained?


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## Tree Machine (Jul 13, 2008)

155 high school Sr year. 165 now. If me now had to tangle with me then, I would flat out kick my azz :angry2:


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## kennertree (Jul 13, 2008)

I wrestled 125 my senior year, I wiegh 190 now.


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## Tree Machine (Jul 13, 2008)

You could wrestle Sumo now.:biggrinbounce2:


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## kennertree (Jul 13, 2008)

Tree Machine said:


> You could wrestle Sumo now.:biggrinbounce2:



I beat anorexia!!


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## Tree Machine (Jul 13, 2008)

Kennertree said:


> I beat anorexia!!


You beat it, stomped it out and destroyed any evidence of it.


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## kennertree (Jul 13, 2008)

Tree Machine said:


> You beat it, stomped it out and destroyed any evidence of it.



Now I'm in perfect shape........round.


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## treemandan (Jul 13, 2008)

kennertree said:


> I beat anorexia!!



I have to say i was pretty not impressed with what the KIDS would do to be on weight. Iam even less impressed by what the coaches would LET them do. " don't eat or drink all day" Yep, that's how you do it.
The one guy was running the halls in a rubber suit to drop weight but all he dropped was himself. When he got back from the hospital his parents tried to sue the school. I am talking 7th grade here and they gave him a hall pass.
I ran hurdles and pole vaulted, pretty much sucked at anything else. When I got walked in baseball I started to WALK to first base.


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## mckeetree (Jul 13, 2008)

Since you cats have wrestling on the brain I will tell my little wrestling story. I wrestled in high school. I was six four and about 240 then. When I was 20 I was around 255 and worked out when I could but that wasn't too often. I met some guys at the old Brack's gym in Dallas that said I should "audition" at the sportatorium and might land a wrestling job, who knows.They had the phone number to call. I would have dismissed it but a buddy of mine, Virgil Zatarain, was with me and he was more interested than I was. Virgil is a biggun, six seven and probably 270 then but all muscle. I had a little fat on me. We met with a promoter and he said well there are a lot of guys trying to get in this business but to leave our numbers. Believe it or not we both got called but nothing ever really developed. Guess that wasn't our destiny.


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## booboo (Jul 14, 2008)

Wrestled at 121 as a senior, weigh in at 160 now. Not a lot of fat but that 2nd beer in the evening isn't helping matters. I was one of the guys who was always trying to make weight, spitting, diuretics, rubber suits. By the time I could make weight, I was pretty weak but it was my only real chance to wrestle varsity because the guy at 128 was pretty good and I only beat him for his spot once.


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## ropensaddle (Jul 14, 2008)

Wrestle nah they kicked me out for unnecessary roughness because
I would be getting out wrestled and turn it to boxing


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## TreeBot (Jul 14, 2008)

I went to wrestling practice for a few weeks as a freshman, until I saw the rubber suit. I was going to have to go from about 175 down into the 150's, and I was already pretty lean. That is the wrong direction to go at that age, you should be growing not shriveling.


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## Nailsbeats (Jul 14, 2008)

I was a mean 155lbs when I graduated. Now I am 195 and holding strong.


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## oldirty (Jul 14, 2008)

you fellas some little dudes. how you like hauling that big saw up the tree with you? lol

i used to see them wrestlers make'n weight, wasnt pretty. but gotta respect the effort to do it though.


whatyou know about "5 on 2" ? lol.


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## oldirty (Jul 14, 2008)

treemandan said:


> Don't laugh to hard that you can't breathe but I had an oxygen tank I used to bring along. I would pull a snort out of it and I would feel a little refreshed Nowadays I just take my time... which is going pretty fast anyway.



dont lie tman, you can tell the boys that was your nitrous tank. i bet you were a hit at them phish shows!


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## Sunrise Guy (Jul 14, 2008)

I wrestled at 155 in hs. I weigh 155, now, but have more muscle, now, than I did then. At 55, I think I'm in better shape than most of my old buddies, knock on wood :greenchainsaw: !


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## custom8726 (Jul 14, 2008)

Wow, thats going back awhile now, 14-15 years ago. I was wrestling somewhere around a 130lb's my sophmore/ junior year by my senior year my priorities had changed. Now, today I weigh 177 but really have not put on any fat since high school, More muscle, less stamina. Can't have it all I guess, lol..


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## memetic (Jul 14, 2008)

About 135-140 in HS, up to 195+ last year a little fat not too much, 165 now ripped. If I have the time I drop to 155 to compete. If I feel lazy I just do 165. I think my first NAGA was at 172 and that was too much weight. I did real well and rolled over a lot of guys at the world championship (4th place first comp not bad), but at 165 it is a joke, 155 is even better. 

As for the little dude comment, I know it was all in fun, but I can't count the times I saw the 6' + dudes rolled over by the "little dudes". Last guy new at the gym is 6'4 (+?) and we started to roll at the end. I could tell he was thinking why am I rolling with this little guy (under 6'). His expression changed when he hit the mat on his back and was saying "holy shiite you are a strong little dude". 

Some guys we work with now and again (southerners if you get what I mean) are like 5'4" etc and these guys are like mules. They lift 6' lengths of 2'-3' diameter logs like nothing. OVER and OVER. 

Anyways, it's not about height and weight, it's about foot size haha. :lifter:


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## oldirty (Jul 14, 2008)

memetic said:


> About 135-140 in HS, up to 195+ last year a little fat not too much, 165 now ripped. If I have the time I drop to 155 to compete. If I feel lazy I just do 165. I think my first NAGA was at 172 and that was too much weight. I did real well and rolled over a lot of guys at the world championship (4th place first comp not bad), but at 165 it is a joke, 155 is even better.
> 
> As for the little dude comment, I know it was all in fun, but I can't count the times I saw the 6' + dudes rolled over by the "little dudes". Last guy new at the gym is 6'4 (+?) and we started to roll at the end. I could tell he was thinking why am I rolling with this little guy (under 6'). His expression changed when he hit the mat on his back and was saying "holy shiite you are a strong little dude".
> 
> ...





the little fella comment was in good fun man but i gotta see this gym you hanging out in. the way i see it is that if you weigh the same amount as the wood i am carrying around the yard all day i am going to get you off your feet and carry you (whoever) around at my leisure.


14 for boot size too bud. lol


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## kennertree (Jul 14, 2008)

oldirty said:


> the little fella comment was in good fun man but i gotta see this gym you hanging out in. the way i see it is that if you weigh the same amount as the wood i am carrying around the yard all day i am going to get you off your feet and carry you (whoever) around at my leisure.
> 
> 
> 14 for boot size too bud. lol



That wood is just dead weight. A good wrestler uses leverage and balance over strength and will win that way every time. A guy that is good at takedowns usually likes big strong guys especially if they are pushing into him, he can use his strength against him.


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## CLEARVIEW TREE (Jul 14, 2008)

kennertree said:


> That wood is just dead weight. A good wrestler uses leverage and balance over strength and will win that way every time. A guy that is good at takedowns usually likes big strong guys especially if they are pushing into him, he can use his strength against him.


 Yes that wood is real dead weight, but a body likes to flail around and dosn't carry too well, but doable. It's funny man, that when my buddy mike and i grapple, i have more wind in me than when i stand and box.


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## oldirty (Jul 14, 2008)

i hear your deadweight claim but ,now i am only speaking from past experiences, that if your weighing in at less than 300lbs i am going to scoop you off your feet and bring said person wherever i feel like going. 

nevermind the elbow, that'll make one sleepy.


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## Sunrise Guy (Jul 14, 2008)

memetic said:


> (snip)
> Some guys we work with now and again (southerners if you get what I mean) are like 5'4" etc and these guys are like mules. They lift 6' lengths of 2'-3' diameter logs like nothing. OVER and OVER.
> 
> Anyways, it's not about height and weight, it's about foot size haha. :lifter:



Today, one of my new guys, a "southerner," watched us lower a 6' length of 1' diameter Cedar Elm. When it came to earth, I grabbed my 192-T to buck it. The guy motioned "not necessary," and hoisted it up on his right shoulder and walked it to the trailer which was out the back yard and to the street, in front. He stands about 5'8" and probably weighs about 160 lbs. That limb had to weigh somewhere around 160 lbs., or more. I routinely see these guys do this, and it always amazes me. Oh yeah, he also stooped down to pick up a brush pile and drag that along with the hoisted limb.


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## oldirty (Jul 14, 2008)

Sunrise Guy said:


> Today, one of my new guys, a "southerner," watched us lower a 6' length of 1' diameter Cedar Elm. When it came to earth, I grabbed my 192-T to buck it. The guy motioned "not necessary," and hoisted it up on his right shoulder and walked it to the trailer which was out the back yard and to the street, in front. He stands about 5'8" and probably weighs about 160 lbs. That limb had to weigh somewhere around 160 lbs., or more. I routinely see these guys do this, and it always amazes me. Oh yeah, he also stooped down to pick up a brush pile and drag that along with the hoisted limb.




that right there was a classic example of brush dragging efficiency. nothing more that i hate (tree related) than extra and unneccesary cuts. its all in the balance anyway when it comes to moving them logs you talk about. did the little guy stand the log up and get under it at the halfway point as he hoisted it up? all in the balance. 

i usually like to stack big brush piles and drag them to the chipper and the whole time i do it i tell the other guys "4 to your 1 pal." same thing with the wood. ya its not a race but dont let me work circles around you otherwise your going to end up a little frustrated with the verbal barrage that i hit you with. lol. not uncommon for me to be referred to as an ahole by a new guy.


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## memetic (Jul 14, 2008)

"Oh yeah, he also stooped down to pick up a brush pile and drag that along with the hoisted limb."

Yep.

edit: oh yeah, size 16.


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## kennertree (Jul 14, 2008)

Now that we have a count of all the wrestlers here how many ex-rodeo people do we have? After HS I started riding bulls and that is how I actually got into tree work. A guy that I rode with some worked at a tree service and they were hiring for a climber. I was working construction at the time and was lookin for a change. I went to work and it all started from there. I met alot of other riders that did tree work too. Also met alot that were linemen. Tree work and rodeo both require the type that is a little nuts anyway, why else would we be doing tree work?


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## memetic (Jul 14, 2008)

kennertree said:


> Now that we have a count of all the wrestlers here how many ex-rodeo people do we have? After HS I started riding bulls and that is how I actually got into tree work. A guy that I rode with some worked at a tree service and they were hiring for a climber. I was working construction at the time and was lookin for a change. I went to work and it all started from there. I met alot of other riders that did tree work too. Also met alot that were linemen. Tree work and rodeo both require the type that is a little nuts anyway, why else would we be doing tree work?



I went to a bar here downtown that has an electronic bull. The chicks ride it topless or in bras. I rode it with all my clothes on and the operator turned it up all the way. I think I lasted a few seconds, maybe 10-20 at most. Then, I hit the mat. Over by the bar - actually on the bar, you can then pay to get your arse spanked with a paddle by the chick bartenders. That's all I know about rodeo.


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## oldirty (Jul 15, 2008)

memetic said:


> "Oh yeah, he also stooped down to pick up a brush pile and drag that along with the hoisted limb."
> 
> Yep.
> 
> edit: oh yeah, size 16.





wow. your 5'4" 160lbs with size 16 foot? lol


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## Sunrise Guy (Jul 15, 2008)

oldirty said:


> (snip) did the little guy stand the log up and get under it at the halfway point as he hoisted it up?
> (snip)



You've got it!


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## tree MDS (Jul 15, 2008)

memetic said:


> I went to a bar here downtown that has an electronic bull. The chicks ride it topless or in bras. I rode it with all my clothes on and the operator turned it up all the way. I think I lasted a few seconds, maybe 10-20 at most. Then, I hit the mat. Over by the bar - actually on the bar, you can then pay to get your arse spanked with a paddle by the chick bartenders. That's all I know about rodeo.



Now that sounds like fun, thanks for the immage of chicks topless on mechanical bull, its helping my attitude this morning. Lol. I might even go with the spanking, lol.


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## memetic (Jul 15, 2008)

oldirty said:


> wow. your 5'4" 160lbs with size 16 foot? lol



I never said I was 5'4", but I never said I wasn't a freak of nature either.


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## 2FatGuys (Jul 15, 2008)

kennertree said:


> Now that we have a count of all the wrestlers here how many ex-rodeo people do we have? ....Tree work and rodeo both require the type that is a little nuts anyway, why else would we be doing tree work?



You don't have a full count of former wrestlers. Some of us just don't need to pound our chests to feel like the Alpha Dog...

Bragging does nothing but set you up for failure or humiliation. The proof is really all in the performance. As a 40+ year old FatGuy, I still can outperform most of our help that is half my age. But I know to respect my limits or I'll be telling stories of "back in the day" from my wheelchair or walker. Work smart... use your head, not your male dangley bits....


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## reachtreeservi (Jul 15, 2008)

memetic said:


> I went to a bar here downtown that has an electronic bull. The chicks ride it topless or in bras. I rode it with all my clothes on and the operator turned it up all the way. I think I lasted a few seconds, maybe 10-20 at most. Then, I hit the mat. Over by the bar - actually on the bar, you can then pay to get your arse spanked with a paddle by the chick bartenders. That's all I know about rodeo.



Where did you say this bar was ? opcorn:


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## kennertree (Jul 15, 2008)

2FatGuys said:


> You don't have a full count of former wrestlers. Some of us just don't need to pound our chests to feel like the Alpha Dog...
> 
> Bragging does nothing but set you up for failure or humiliation. The proof is really all in the performance. As a 40+ year old FatGuy, I still can outperform most of our help that is half my age. But I know to respect my limits or I'll be telling stories of "back in the day" from my wheelchair or walker. Work smart... use your head, not your male dangley bits....



No bragging here, just talkin about the good ol days. I'm far from an alpha dog, trust me, I respect my limits too.


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## JeffL (Jul 15, 2008)

reachtreeservi said:


> Where did you say this bar was ? opcorn:



Salty Dog in Springfield, or talking about the other place down there in New Haven?


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## capetrees (Jul 15, 2008)

2FG,
Nobodys claiming they are better than others due to the idea that they wrestled years ago. The issue of endurance, learned from wrestling, is often seen as being more important in tree work than muscle.


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## memetic (Jul 15, 2008)

JeffL, I am beginning to think you are spying on me - did you see me there? Hope you didn't see me tossed from the bull only to have my arse spanked silly standing on the bar. Where's my PM response on the 460?

BTW, if we were all posting on a MMA or wrestling site, would we be bragging that we posted we did tree work? I don't think anyone is bragging. I think capetrees is right.


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## mckeetree (Jul 15, 2008)

memetic said:


> JeffL, I am beginning to think you are spying on me - did you see me there? Hope you didn't see me tossed from the bull only to have my arse spanked silly standing on the bar. Where's my PM response on the 460?
> 
> BTW, if we were all posting on a MMA or wrestling site, would we be bragging that we posted we did tree work? I don't think anyone is bragging. I think capetrees is right.



I don't know about bragging but maybe B.S. Just a little.


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## tree MDS (Jul 16, 2008)

I remember the ads on the radio for the one in New Haven now, I may have to check that out, I need a good spanking, lol.


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## Nailsbeats (Jul 16, 2008)

Now that were on to bull riding, I will throw this out. I hired two young men that were bull riders, one was still at it and wanted to go pro, the other one moved on to mud trucks.

The one still at it made it 3 weeks (fired), the other just quit after maybe 10 months. It worked out perfect for me cause his a$$ was draggin and he had topped out well below what I expected from him. I was not impressed by these guy's, no pace or any sign of toughness. Just immature young men.

I had high hopes for them too, they said they were bullriders.


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## Sunrise Guy (Jul 16, 2008)

Nailsbeats said:


> Now that were on to bull riding, I will throw this out. I hired two young men that were bull riders, one was still at it and wanted to go pro, the other one moved on to mud trucks.
> 
> The one still at it made it 3 weeks (fired), the other just quit after maybe 10 months. It worked out perfect for me cause his a$$ was draggin and he had topped out well below what I expected from him. I was not impressed by these guy's, no pace or any sign of toughness. Just immature young men.
> 
> I had high hopes for them too, they said they were bullriders.



Not exactly an endurance sport, right? I mean, how long do they ride, a few seconds/minutes? I would not expect bull riders to be endurance-type workers, and so I would not expect them to make great tree workers.


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## tree MDS (Jul 16, 2008)

Really, try a eight hour hour fine prune in a Pin Oak, then we'll see what they are made of. Only problem they never made it that far right, lol. Not that I prune that much at my company, curiously enough.


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## Nailsbeats (Jul 16, 2008)

Oh no guys, I hired these dudes for fabrication work, welding. They wouldn't have lasted the day on a tree job.

Most bullriders seem like lean machines, but the key word here may just be "seem". I don't know, maybe I got 2 bad ones. I really expected balls to walls with a "can do" attitude. I got balls dragging with the "can't do it" attitude.

The real kicker here is they were both ex-wrestlers, which really left me wondering how much has been lost in this next generation. They weren't pretty boys either, they were farm kids.


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## kennertree (Jul 16, 2008)

Nailsbeats said:


> Oh no guys, I hired these dudes for fabrication work, welding. They wouldn't have lasted the day on a tree job.
> 
> Most bullriders seem like lean machines, but the key word here may just be "seem". I don't know, maybe I got 2 bad ones. I really expected balls to walls with a "can do" attitude. I got balls dragging with the "can't do it" attitude.
> 
> The real kicker here is they were both ex-wrestlers, which really left me wondering how much has been lost in this next generation. They weren't pretty boys either, they were farm kids.



Maybe because they were the younger generation. Seems like no matter what the younger generation has done previously they are lazy and don't want to work.


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## memetic (Jul 17, 2008)

damn generation y and z.


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## CLEARVIEW TREE (Jul 17, 2008)

I was fortunate enough to be raised on my family's large beefmaster cattle/quarter horse/timber farm in rural se louisiana. Dad taught us at a young age to hunt, camp,fish,and pretty much everything outdoors. We learned to castrate hogs, horses,cattle at age 6, fell timber at 7, and were ridin my dad's childhood shetland pony at age 3. I wouldn't trade a day of my growing up on any of those 3,500 acres! My grandfather was a USMC Korean vet and then was a DI at San Diego. He would let us ride into town with him often. He'd say "son, you see that line over there?" "That's the welfare line, and over there that's my buddy's from the paper mill earnin their keep!" That place smells like money son, if you wana work for it. Paw-Paw showed us that hard work payed off for those who wanted it. He said that you could have anything if you planned for it. He taught my twin and i to be very hard workers, and that's something we carry to this day. Unfortunately my paw-paw Charlie died at a healthy 68 years of age in a farming accident in 1998. But thankfully he left a mark on us that will never be erased! Two days before his death while my grandma was in Africa, he showed my little cousin how to shoot his 22 rifle he'd gotten for his birthday! One day before his death he'd showed them the creek where he was Baptised as a kid! Kinda strange huh? So you never know what tommorrow is gonna bring, and still kids insist on starting at the top!


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## beowulf343 (Jul 23, 2008)

Started treework at 17, fresh off the dairy. Treework is easy compared to that. 





oldirty said:


> you fellas some little dudes. how you like hauling that big saw up the tree with you? lol



Funny, that thought was running through my mind too. 

What's up oldirty? You still up north?


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## memetic (Jul 23, 2008)

"Started treework at 17, fresh off the dairy. Treework is easy compared to that." 

My son was off the dairy at one year. I guess after 17 years of that treework _would_ seem easy. JK. haha.


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## TimberMcPherson (Jul 24, 2008)

After milking cows, Everything seems easier. I still have bad dreams about having to look at 500 4 teated breasts every morning.


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## oldirty (Jul 24, 2008)

beowulf343 said:


> Started treework at 17, fresh off the dairy. Treework is easy compared to that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




what up beowulf!? no not in AK anymore. came home to be with the girl and got took the raise to come back. its nice working in the real wood again. lol


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## Sunrise Guy (Jul 24, 2008)

TimberMcPherson said:


> After milking cows, Everything seems easier. I still have bad dreams about having to look at 500 4 teated breasts every morning.



Hmm---I might like that. I've always been a boob man!


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## ropensaddle (Jul 24, 2008)

Sunrise Guy said:


> Hmm---I might like that. I've always been a boob man!



Me too but ain't no teat man


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## Tree Machine (Jul 25, 2008)

We raised Herefords, but on a hobby farm compared to you guys. 
In high school, in the Summer, the local farmers would call the wrestling coach and ask for names. a core group would get passed around to different farms to bale and put up hay. Not the kind of setting you are allowed to slack in, even a bit. The farmers loved it, they weren't paying us squat, but we were the bale warriors!

I thank farm life for adequately preparing me for a career as a climber and pro schlepper of brush and logs.



CLEARVIEW said:


> Dad taught us at a young age to hunt, camp,fish,and pretty much everything outdoors. We learned to castrate hogs, horses,cattle at age 6, fell timber at 7, and were ridin my dad's childhood shetland pony at age 3. Paw-Paw showed us that hard work payed off for those who wanted it. He said that you could have anything if you planned for it. He taught my twin and i to be very hard workers, and that's something we carry to this day.



And all that positive influence and upbringing you carry here to this thread.
Thanks


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## weenieroaster (Jul 25, 2008)

I find that people who have an interest in the work, beyond just the hours for pay exchange, will work harder for the long run. It's good if they have that to begin with, because the intense labor aspect often tends to cancel out any developing interest as the job progresses. Not forgetting that you are learning as you are burning, can keep things in a positive perspective. That applies to myself as well. It is also pleasant to be able to discuss techniques, etc. during lunch or whenever, when their is genuine interest.


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