# nylon rope



## miko0618 (Apr 6, 2013)

I was thinking of getting some to try it for rigging. my thoughts where if its elastic it would make the drop control less precise. in a good way. anyone ever use it? i'm not talking about over a structure or anything that would require a short fall. just general lowering limbs and blocking down. and, whats it like for abrasion?


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## TheJollyLogger (Apr 7, 2013)

Every time I try and reinvent the wheel my ride gets really bouncy


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## miko0618 (Apr 7, 2013)

whats the good reason? have you ever watched the video of testing dynamic and static ropes? the static ropes are 50% stronger but break with much less weight dropped because they cant absorb the impact. they only down side would be if the load bounced. but I don't think a piece would free fall far enough to do that. I've never used them though so I don't know why they are bad.


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## Tree Pig (Apr 7, 2013)

miko0618 said:


> whats the good reason? have you ever watched the video of testing dynamic and static ropes? the static ropes are 50% stronger but break with much less weight dropped because they cant absorb the impact. they only down side would be if the load bounced. but I don't think a piece would free fall far enough to do that. I've never used them though so I don't know why they are bad.



nylon ropes lose 15-20% of its strength when wet... enough of a reason for me.

more info 


Nylon fiber is affected by the absorbtion of water. Nylon is hydrophilic meaning it will absorb water. The overall strength and stretch can be greatly affected by moisture in the fiber. Whenever possible try and keep your ropes away from water and as dry as possible. Our in-house testing shows that loss of strength in wet ropes may be as high as 70% in nylon ropes without DryCore™ but only 40% in ropes with DryCore™. A 11mm Drycore™ rope that holds 11 falls dry, holds 7 falls wet. That same rope without DryCore™ may hold only 3 falls when wet. In general the data shows that the loss of strength through the presence of water in nylon ropes is significant. The good news is that nylon’s original strength and elongation returns when the rope dries.


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## smokey01 (Apr 7, 2013)

Tree Pig said:


> more info
> Nylon fiber is affected b........ loss of strength in wet ropes may be as high as 70% in nylon ropes without DryCore™ .........pes is significant. The good news is that nylon’s original strength and elongation returns when the rope dries.



The full article that Tree Pig is quoting from is available at
......
http://www.sterlingrope.com/media/document/techmanual.pdf


Some more interesting quotes about Nylon to add to Tree Pig's info but reading the whole article is very informative. 

Nylon allowed construction of lighter weight ropes having great impact absorption and the ability to hold upwards of 5,000 pounds...

Most of our static and dynamic ropes use nylon or polyester as the main ingredient. 

Nylon
The generic name for nylon is “polyamide”. 
Climbing and life safety ropes are made primarily with either nylon 6 or nylon 6,6. Wallace Carothers at the Dupont Institute developed nylon 6,6 in 1935.
Nylon 6 has slightly better elongation characteristics making it more suitable for dynamic ropes.
...The nylon used in life safety ropes are strong and light with great elongation and impact absorption qualities.
Nylon is the superior yarn to use in recreational climbing ropes because of this impact absorption. 
There is no better product for that purpose at this time.


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## rarefish383 (Apr 7, 2013)

Don't like stretchy ropes over slate rooves, Joe.


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## Pelorus (Apr 7, 2013)

Interesting info here too. The Thread Exchange, Inc.: Polyester Thread Information.


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## miko0618 (Apr 7, 2013)

Hmm..


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## CalTreeEquip (Apr 7, 2013)

Nylon is way to stretchy. There are such good arbor ropes now why would you use anything different? I had a nice 5/8th 3 strand I liked to use back in the day but the braided lines started to come in and they were so much better. Now there are some many kinds and colors and composites why go back to the stone age?


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## miko0618 (Apr 7, 2013)

I suppose I didn't cut trees long ago enough to use the stuff. I have good rope. I wasn't trying to go backwards, I was just curious if the elasticity would soften the shock of a lowered piece. like it would a falling climber.


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## woodchuck357 (Apr 8, 2013)

*I use 1" nylon for lowering limbs and chuncks often*

But then I guess I have been doing things wrong for over 50 years so why change. The size is to allow better grip, the extra strength from the size means I never worry if it will break. Never lets a limb fall further than I plan.

When I started natural fiber was the standard, hemp was top of the line, so nylon is still the "new stuff". I haven't seen any 100% nylon rope in the size we use for sale in a long time. The rope we get is nylon and polyester. It's a lot stronger and costs less than the bull ropes I see others use.


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## CalTreeEquip (Apr 9, 2013)

woodchuck357 said:


> But then I guess I have been doing things wrong for over 50 years so why change. The size is to allow better grip, the extra strength from the size means I never worry if it will break. Never lets a limb fall further than I plan.
> 
> When I started natural fiber was the standard, hemp was top of the line, so nylon is still the "new stuff". I haven't seen any 100% nylon rope in the size we use for sale in a long time. The rope we get is nylon and polyester. It's a lot stronger and costs less than the bull ropes I see others use.



Really? You would rather use heavy assed 1" 3 strand then this?
Stable Braid 3/4&rdquo;
The last 1" 3 strand I had I left pinned under a Fir log. Nice 150' piece of tag line but not worth retrieving. 
In my most humble opinion that is.


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## rarefish383 (Apr 9, 2013)

woodchuck357 said:


> But then I guess I have been doing things wrong for over 50 years so why change. The size is to allow better grip, the extra strength from the size means I never worry if it will break. Never lets a limb fall further than I plan.
> 
> When I started natural fiber was the standard, hemp was top of the line, so nylon is still the "new stuff". I haven't seen any 100% nylon rope in the size we use for sale in a long time. The rope we get is nylon and polyester. It's a lot stronger and costs less than the bull ropes I see others use.



Sorry, I often take questions quite literal. The original question was "Nylon" rope. Not a blend. You just said you use 1" nylon, and then through in the caveat, it's a blend of polyesters. Yes, polyester blends can be quite acceptable. I started with hemp also, I think I still have slivers of that stuff in my hands, Joe.


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## smokey01 (Apr 10, 2013)

Del_ said:


> There are good reasons that arborist rigging ropes are not 100% nylon.
> 
> I know this is not your question miko0618 but I find this interesting in comparison to wet nylon rope.


View attachment 289634


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## woodchuck357 (Apr 10, 2013)

*I still use some 100% NYLON that we have had for some time*



rarefish383 said:


> Sorry, I often take questions quite literal. The original question was "Nylon" rope. Not a blend. You just said you use 1" nylon, and then through in the caveat, it's a blend of polyesters. Yes, polyester blends can be quite acceptable. I started with hemp also, I think I still have slivers of that stuff in my hands, Joe.



But the newly purchased ones are blend. Could not find 100% 1" nylon when we needed 300 ft. rope for a job.


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## CalTreeEquip (Apr 10, 2013)

I think 100% nylon is still used in maritime applications as mooring and tow lines.


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## miko0618 (Apr 10, 2013)

I really was curious if it would be a softer stop in rigging. and lets say your ground guy lets a top run out and stops it at 90 degrees, would it bend the stem less? as far as strength, obviously its not the strongest. but a 3/4" twisted is rated at 12,800 lbs. that's very strong for a dynamic rope. the elasticity was kind of the point of the question. I was imagining it as more like bungee jumping. you can fall 100' and the bungee cord will absorb the shock. do it on a double braid and it would be like concrete. that's an extreme example but the physics are the same.


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## Oldmaple (Apr 12, 2013)

Just going off of memory here but definitely not for climbing since it wouldn't meet OSHA requirements as there is too much stretch. I believe climbing ropes have to be less than 7% stretch. For rigging lines I'm not sure. I'd be worried about melting temps unless you were running it through a pulley all the time and slowly through a friction brake.


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## beastmaster (Apr 18, 2013)

I bought some polydyon(sp?)bullrope, it I believe has a lot of nylon in it. It's made to have some stretch in it to lessing the shock load. I work with some idiots some times and I think That rope may of saved my ass a few times on big chunks of wood that some groundy didn't let run. You don't see it stretch but you for sure feel the lack of shock. A few times I get prepared for it, and I or the tree feel hardly nothing. I bought 200 ft of 5/8. Its Husky brand and rated for 18,000 lbs. It's a double braid. 
The only applacation I might not use it for was drop catching a heavy piece low over a tile roof, but even in that sernario the stretch is relative to the emount of rope your using so on a short drop, close to the ground it wouldn't stretch that much. I think the stuff is great. It's not bouncie and you'll never notice the stretch, but you'll sure feel the lack of shock load on heavy wood. I bought my at Tree stuff 200.00 buck for 200 ft or there about. Hard to beat that for a quality bull line.


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## Caghrlos (Apr 21, 2013)

Don't like stretchy ropes over slate rooves, Joe.


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## woodchuck357 (Apr 21, 2013)

What difference does the roofing material make? Any piece dropping heavy enough to worry about is going to tear up what ever it hits!


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## woodchuck357 (Apr 21, 2013)

Static line has low limits of stretch, climbing line should have shock absorbing qualities. The question was not about climbing rather about lowering. I hope you don't drop chunks with static line.


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## miko0618 (Apr 22, 2013)

check out the yale cordage youtube video where they test a static and dynamic rope. a 20,000lb tensile strength rope failed with 220 lbs dropped 6 feet. a 5900 lb dynamic rope held for repeated falls. so if I fall on my climbing line 6 ft, it could fail. but 1/2 nylon from lowes wouldn't be phased? if this is true, why am I paying $100 + for a climbing line that's not going to save my life if I fall? we have 1/2 and 3/8 braided and twisted nylon safety rope for fall prevention in construction. nothing polyester. I get that my tree service rope isn't a dynamic rope, but why not? rigging is catching falling objects. and why not climb on a dynamic rope? scenario, I set up in a crotch with the rope around the trunk. the crotch fails and I fall to the next branch 6 feet down. my 7500 lb climbing line, harness or back could break. with a dynamic rope, it could be a gentle pants sh*tting. just food for thought.


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## woodchuck357 (Apr 22, 2013)

When you climb with a static rope, keep it taunt. Don't let it get a lot of slack so a fall will involve a swing, not a drop. I climb with a dynamic rope but keep it tight, anyway. The only static ropes I use are for fun rappelling and bagged up waiting to be used in rescue operations.


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## smokey01 (Apr 23, 2013)

miko0618 said:


> check out the yale cordage youtube video where they test a static and dynamic rope. a 20,000lb tensile strength rope failed with 220 lbs dropped 6 feet. .....


I don't know where that video is but I'm having a hard time seeing this. A 6 foot fall generates about 660 pounds of force, 3G's, (assuming a NO stretch rope) not fun but I can't see how that would break a 20,000lb rope????????????????


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## miko0618 (Apr 23, 2013)

Yale Cordage Ultrex vs. XTC Rope Static and Dynamic Test Demonstration - YouTube

it was 6 1/2 feet. it said it generated 1450 ft lbs. 

and yes, I am not saying a fall from a slacked line. that's more user error. I just meant a fall from a limb failure or such. I use a 12 strand for climbing. they get turned into rigging line when they get worn. I've dropped some decent weight on them. I have also used a block and a winch to hoist pieces well over a ton. I feel totally confident I would break before my rope. but, what if I did fall? a dynamic rope sounds like it would be better. and for rigging, it would decrease the forces on the tree.


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## miko0618 (Apr 23, 2013)

watch the video til the end.


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## tramp bushler (Apr 23, 2013)

I use some 1/2" and 5/8" Samson double braid that I got a spool of each when I was in Southeast . It's marine line but it works OK for pulling trees and stuff but I don't climb on it. It has some problems. It milks a lot and plucks pretty bad. . When I get it used up or even before then I will replace it with arborist rigging ropes.


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## Pelorus (Apr 23, 2013)

smokey01 said:


> A 6 foot fall generates about 660 pounds of force, 3G's, (assuming a NO stretch rope) not fun but I can't see how that would break a 20,000lb rope????????????????



Every foot of fall adds the weight of the piece to the total. 100 lb falling 3'= 300 lbs + the original 100 lbs = 400lbs force. Which is why a rigging block should be cinched up close to the notch/back cut of a piece getting negatively blocked down.


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## smokey01 (Apr 23, 2013)

Pelorus said:


> Every foot of fall adds the weight of the piece to the total. 100 lb falling 3'= 300 lbs + the original 100 lbs = 400lbs force....





miko0618 said:


> Yale Cordage Ultrex vs. XTC Rope Static and Dynamic Test Demonstration - YouTube
> it was 6 1/2 feet. it said it generated 1450 ft lbs.



Thanks for posting the video. 
Looks like I need to redo my math, I must have forgotten to carry the 1.


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