# Anyone else notice that they noch there trees backwards?



## mercer_me (Apr 13, 2009)

Anyone else notice that they noch there trees backwards? When they noch there trees they cut the bottom at an angle and the top flat. Around here we cut it flat on the bottom and at an angle on the top.


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## mattmc2003 (Apr 13, 2009)

I've saw it go both ways. And i've also got a guy i work with that says you cut angle top and bottom, so the notch is wider, and you can control the tree all the way till it hits the ground that way....lol. I've never saw anyone hang on long enough to try that...lol.


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## Kunes (Apr 13, 2009)

There all different ways to fell a tree.

Personal Preference?
kunes


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## Ghillie (Apr 13, 2009)

Stump shot.


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## ShoerFast (Apr 13, 2009)

Saw logs, or logs for lumber , you don't want to waste any if your paid by the foot.


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## RRSsawshop (Apr 13, 2009)

3 common cuts 
1.common
2.humbolt
3.open face
All different ways to fell a tree!!!


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## ShoerFast (Apr 13, 2009)

*Here is Humbolt Notch...*





*Open-faced Notch*




*Conventional Notch*




Sorry , for other Polish people, I could not find one for a tree you want to go thata-way*>>>------->*


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## Ghillie (Apr 13, 2009)

ShoerFast said:


> Sorry , for other Polish people, I could not find one for a tree you want to go thata-way*>>>------->*



ROFL.... I'm outta rep for you..... but that's funny!


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## RRSsawshop (Apr 13, 2009)

ShoerFast said:


> *Here is Humbolt Notch...*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice job :yourock:


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## ShoerFast (Apr 13, 2009)

Ghillie said:


> ROFL.... I'm outta rep for you..... but that's funny!



It's the thought that counts,,,, but I better get some rep for a posting a picture of Polish stripper?

link:


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## tree md (Apr 13, 2009)

Dang, outa rep bullets... Click, click.


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## Ghillie (Apr 13, 2009)

ShoerFast said:


> It's the thought that counts,,,, but I better get some rep for a posting a picture of Polish stripper?
> 
> link:



Along those lines.... I think.

Back on topic... You got any pictures of a humbolt with a snipe?


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## ShoerFast (Apr 13, 2009)

Ghillie said:


> Along those lines.... I think.
> 
> Back on topic... You got any pictures of a humbolt with a snipe?



+1 Gotcha!  

Here is OSHA's how-to on felling notch cuts....

The Humbolt Top Cut

The Conventional Top Cut

The Open-faced Top Cut


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## 1947wdx (Apr 13, 2009)

ShoerFast said:


> Sorry , for other Polish people, I could not find one for a tree you want to go thata-way*>>>------->*


*Here is Humbolt Notch...*




*Open-faced Notch*




*Conventional Notch*


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## Kunes (Apr 13, 2009)

Brilliant


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## stihlloggin (Apr 13, 2009)

mercer_me said:


> Anyone else notice that they noch there trees backwards? When they noch there trees they cut the bottom at an angle and the top flat. Around here we cut it flat on the bottom and at an angle on the top.



I think your confused on what backwards is??


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## mile9socounty (Apr 13, 2009)

stihlloggin said:


> I think your confused on what backwards is??



+1 The Humbolt is normally the only face cut I see around here. Unless someone's messing around. Of course you can't forget everyone's favorite. The [email protected] cut!


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## spankrz (Apr 13, 2009)

mattmc2003 said:


> I've saw it go both ways. And i've also got a guy i work with that says you cut angle top and bottom, so the notch is wider, and you can control the tree all the way till it hits the ground that way....lol. I've never saw anyone hang on long enough to try that...lol.



that's the way i do it. it does give you better control IMHO. that's the way they teach the kentucky master logger classes. (my dad teaches them, and he taught me)


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## oldirty (Apr 13, 2009)

Ghillie said:


> Along those lines.... I think.
> 
> Back on topic... You got any pictures of a humbolt with a snipe?



i see you got the really big jug of the stuff this time ghillie!


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## Hammer289 (Apr 13, 2009)

Or you can cut like a guy my brother knows. clear cut a 20 foot circle all the way around. cut the front then cut the back as soon as it wiggles lock the chain brake and run like hell. thats instant death if you ask me


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## mattmc2003 (Apr 14, 2009)

spankrz said:


> that's the way i do it. it does give you better control IMHO. that's the way they teach the kentucky master logger classes. (my dad teaches them, and he taught me)



So you keep your saw in the tree till it hits the ground? Cause thats what this guy was sayin, that you can control it till right when it lands.


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## mtfallsmikey (Apr 14, 2009)

Kunes said:


> Brilliant



I've done it all 3 ways...I guess. 
Which is the proper way to do it with a Stihl???


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## mtfallsmikey (Apr 14, 2009)

Ghillie said:


> Along those lines.... I think.
> 
> Back on topic... You got any pictures of a humbolt with a snipe?



Kinda makes you wanna say:

"Gee you shure have a purdy mouth!"


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## 1947wdx (Apr 14, 2009)

mattmc2003 said:


> So you keep your saw in the tree till it hits the ground? Cause thats what this guy was sayin, that you can control it till right when it lands.



I think what was intended was that the hinge wood can help control the tree longer with an open faced cut. Once the face closes the hing wood breaks and there is no longer anything in control of the tree. (You could argue that by that time the tree is well on it's way down, and will stay on roughly the same trajectory anyway.)

There is a good video on you tube from the "Progressive Farmer" that shows this better. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFTOlmCijjs


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## Mike PA (Apr 14, 2009)

mattmc2003 said:


> So you keep your saw in the tree till it hits the ground? Cause thats what this guy was sayin, that you can control it till right when it lands.



That's not quite what he is saying. That means that the hinge holds longer, as the stump doesn't force the hinge to break because of the larger angle. The humbolt and conventional cuts both force the hinge to break prior to the tree hitting because the opening closes.


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## Ghillie (Apr 14, 2009)

Beranak has several chapters in his book "Fundamentals of general tree work" just on tree falling. A good read if you want to learn more.

One chapter dedicated to the "notch", one chapter on the back cut, one chapter on hazard trees and a couple of more chapters on other aspects.


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## slowp (Apr 14, 2009)

There are many discussions about this on the Forestry Logging Forum. Some pictures too. If you are interested in the details, that is.


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## Ghillie (Apr 14, 2009)

slowp said:


> There are many discussions about this on the Forestry Logging Forum. Some pictures too. If you are interested in the details, that is.




:agree2: Search is your friend, and free!


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## Junior (Apr 14, 2009)

mattmc2003 said:


> So you keep your saw in the tree till it hits the ground? Cause thats what this guy was sayin, that you can control it till right when it lands.



You keep trimming your hinge as the tree starts to fall, so you don't pull so much wood out.


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## ShoerFast (Apr 15, 2009)

Junior said:


> You keep trimming your hinge as the tree falls, so you don't pull so much wood out.



A lot of saw helps, 660's and the like, are fantastic getting it cut to where you can get the h311 out of there before the tree moves a lot. 

The second biggest scar i have is from a dead limb falling off a tree that was not full committed yet.

Trying to steer a tree way longer then I needed to, my misjudgment, keep me in the wrong spot too long. 

Just my $0.03 cents worth, but I think a good job is being no where near it when it starts for the ground.


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## 2dogs (Apr 15, 2009)

ShoerFast said:


> A lot of saw helps, 660's and the like, are fantastic getting it cut to where you can get the h311 out of there before the tree moves a lot.
> 
> , but I think a good job is being no where near it when it starts for the ground.



Yep. A 36" bar gives me a little breathing room while cutting. And then keep an eye on the tree but move away to a safe distance. Every tree is just a little bit different.


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## Stihl Does It (Apr 19, 2009)

I've seen all three used. I usually use a conventional, but on occasion have used an open faced cut. The Humboldt is usually reserved for large trees in certain locations to control the direction of the fall.


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## GASoline71 (Apr 20, 2009)

Is there any other face cut than a Humboldt? Everyone else on the planet does it "backwards".

Big wood, west side stuff. 

...and to the OP... you stole my "piss on treehuggers" thingy in my sig line...

Gary


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## kiwi41 (Oct 11, 2009)

hey guys the humbolt is used mainly when felling steep downhill especially for more brittle wood (redwood) as it is controlled in dissent to stop it shattering on impact. the other reason is that it can aid when cables are used to winch or butt wood does not get hung up on high stumps when winching uphill as they ride up easier over the angled bottom cut sort of like a ramp.


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## RVALUE (Oct 11, 2009)

Now it makes sense, little tough the first time.


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## 2dogs (Oct 11, 2009)

kiwi41 said:


> hey guys the humbolt is used mainly when felling steep downhill especially for more brittle wood (redwood) as it is controlled in dissent to stop it shattering on impact. the other reason is that it can aid when cables are used to winch or butt wood does not get hung up on high stumps when winching uphill as they ride up easier over the angled bottom cut sort of like a ramp.



Here we have the voice of experience. Lots of big redwood is fallen straight down steep hills. Especially all the old growth that is being logged.

BTW kiwi41 did you notice the thread is 6 months old?


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## kiwi41 (Oct 11, 2009)

hey 2dogs only read the post date after posting, sunday in uk so recovering from hangover. only used redwood as an example as a wood that is prone to shattering on impact. !st post only mate- doesnt make me a newbie.


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## floyd (Oct 11, 2009)

Probably the difference between cutting scaled logs vs pulpwood.


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## slowp (Oct 12, 2009)

Stump height? No matter what kind of notch/ undecut you do, if the landowner is smart, they'll have a maximum stump height allowed in the contract. And it won't be set to make it easy on the faller's back. Nope, humboldts are used for that more control thing (I'm not a faller or expert on falling) trees are usually angled to the skidding or yarding road/corridor or across the slope, and it does save out more scale on a large log--the butt.


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## smokechase II (Oct 12, 2009)

*Saving wood*

My father-in-law was part of a 100 plus year family mill in western oregon.
The boys still run the mill. 

{My wife inherited 40 acres of real timber. Several fir over 6 foot.}

========

Her Dad wouldn't allow anyone to use a Humboldt on the stuff he was having cut for his mill.
He was part of that never waste anything generation.

With a conventional, if not falling downhill, you can get more wood out of tree.

2/3rds of the tree is saved by a lower back-cut. Doesn't make for a flat butt for the head rig computer but they got more wood to the mill.

They would do things like leave dimension lumber its log length or cut it to the length of your specs. Odd stuff that came from days gone by that you don't see today.

=========

You need to be good at both.
There are plenty of reasons for a Humboldt.


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## kiwi41 (Oct 12, 2009)

yea i agree,i can honestley say i have rarely used the humboldt, much prefer conventional cut.i was really only giving a reason for its use! have used it up a tree quite a few times though


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## Nosmo (Oct 12, 2009)

*Reason for Humbolt Cut*

Seems like I heard a comment about the humbolt cut being prefered by the lumber mills. This cut leaves a square cut to the very end of the log. The notch remains on the stump.

Nosmo


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## jburlingham (Oct 13, 2009)

GASoline71 said:


> *Is there any other face cut than a Humboldt? Everyone else on the planet does it "backwards".
> *
> Big wood, west side stuff.
> 
> ...



I would def agree with Gary, Humboldt was all that my father taught us to use, even though I grew up with medium wood, on the east side :greenchainsaw:


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## 2dogs (Oct 13, 2009)

smokechase II said:


> My father-in-law was part of a 100 plus year family mill in western oregon.
> The boys still run the mill.
> 
> {My wife inherited 40 acres of real timber. Several fir over 6 foot.}
> ...



The head rig computer is a truly amazing peice of equipment. I've been in our local mill's control room several times and watched the operation and the speed at which the computer operates the saw will make your head spin. Compared to the mill where the human brain is looking at the log, sawing it, and turning it, the computer is probably 5 or 6 times faster. Not to mention the booth for the old head rigs were noisy, greasy and cramped, where as the computer control room is located well above the head rig and is sound proofed and air conditioned. Of course now someone has to run a metal detector over the logs and the mill can only debark logs up 42" but that is rarely a problem.


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