# co worker cut his wrist with 201T



## Youngbuck20 (Jul 20, 2012)

yesterday one of my fellow co workers was removing a big maple with the bucket truck. he was taking the top out and while doing his back cut it came back on him so he raised both his arms to stop it from landing on him and did the chainsaw charlie across his wrist. he lowered himself low enough that another guy could control the bucket. he passed out so we called 911. 3 animal like gashes and only 15 stitches somehow. it looked pretty painful you could see his muscles. back to work today. lucky lucky lucky.


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## D&B Mack (Jul 20, 2012)

Very lucky indeed. Good reminder to be safe out there.

Put this in the chainsaw thread and you will get responses like "Well, he should have been using the 200, probably kicked back because the 201T is too weak." Or, "That thing should have been ported, lucky for him it wasn't."


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## derwoodii (Jul 20, 2012)

Sorry for his suffering hope he heals well and reconsiders using top handle saws...Yet by the incident description he,s dropped the saw as says both his arms up ,,,not just placed up his (let me guess) his left hand to fend off the limb,, anyhoo as you see not a fan of top handles in task where rear grip will work.


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## Grouchy old man (Jul 20, 2012)

I would think the chain stopped as soon as he took his hands off the saw especially if it was still in the cut. Sounds like the the saw fell on him and the teeth hacked him up.


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## KenJax Tree (Jul 20, 2012)

Why did it kick back? Did he have both hands on the saw or was he almost through his back cut and one hand was pushing the top over? I've been guilty of doing it.


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## Grouchy old man (Jul 20, 2012)

The way I read the OP the top fell the wrong way. He let go of the saw and put his arms up to protect himself. I could be wrong...


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## Youngbuck20 (Jul 21, 2012)

Grouchy old man said:


> The way I read the OP the top fell the wrong way. He let go of the saw and put his arms up to protect himself. I could be wrong...



The top fell the wrong way and he put both hands up to protect himself, saw in one hand and when the top came down on him it forced either his wrist into the saw or the saw into his wrist.


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## derwoodii (Jul 21, 2012)

Youngbuck20 said:


> The top fell the wrong way and he put both hands up to protect himself, saw in one hand and when the top came down on him it forced either his wrist into the saw or the saw into his wrist.



Ok thank you for the clarity the situation was forced upon the chap by the circumstance, again hope he heals well and fast.


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## imagineero (Jul 21, 2012)

There sure is a narrow margin for error when one handing a top handled saw and using the other hand to guide the piece.... many times your free hand is only inches away from the chain. In arboriculture training in aus you're not allowed to one hand a top handled saw, instant fail on your exams.... but the truth is that everyone does in real life. When I was working in NZ doing pruning of forestry plantations a lot of guys wore arm chaps. I never did wear them, and still dont. You've got to be very mindful of the forces in play and how the piece will swing, especially with cut/hold/throw that your left arm isnt dropped onto the saw. 

In all honesty I'm surprised it doesnt happen more often considering how prevalent the practice is. There's no other efficient way to dismantle trees in many cases though.

Shaun


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## Youngbuck20 (Jul 22, 2012)

isnt that just it. efficiency over safety.


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## tree MDS (Jul 22, 2012)

Yep. Sounds like he should have put a pull line on it. I take calculated risks like that myself. Sometimes it helps to give the top a good push/shake, before cutting, just to make sure you have enough on it.


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## imagineero (Jul 23, 2012)

Youngbuck20 said:


> isnt that just it. efficiency over safety.



There is always an efficiency/safety balance, there is no such thing as absolute safety. Getting that last few percent of safety can make the job take 10 times as long. You can talk the whole 'safety has no price' routine, but who's going to pay the price? The truth is, you generally can only have as much safet as is economically viable while still getting the job done efficiently enough to make a profit. Any more safety than that and you don't have a business any more, you have a charity.

The question of when enough is enough is a never ending one, and we are mostly improved over where we have been in past. Most safety measures are only ever going to be a backup parachute to the main parachute of your skills and knowledge though. Safety has really been taken way too far in most industries as a result of the slip up of one or two guys that had accidents. In the past people shrugged it off and went 'oh well, high risk industry, he made a mistake'. People who took on high risk jobs knew what they were buying into, and took the money. Nowadays, one huy has an accident and the response is more like 'our industry needs to find a way for it to be impossible for this scenario to occur again'. 

I'll take the resonsibility of accepting the consequences of my actions anyday, so long as it comes with the freedom to do what i want at any time.


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## Youngbuck20 (Jul 23, 2012)

I've never read a more honest no bs straight to the point post on this site than that. Your exactly right. If we took all the safety precautions they want us to and rope out every little piece, shut the saw off and finish your cut with a handsaw, like you said your business would be a charity. That being said a lot of people have lost the common sense factor as well. Those are the guys that make it a pain for the rest of us.


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## Youngbuck20 (Jul 23, 2012)

The bucket duck, I like that I'll keep it in mind and hopefully never have to do it. He's like 6'6 so not sure that was an option for him lol


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## tree MDS (Jul 23, 2012)

Youngbuck20 said:


> The bucket duck, I like that I'll keep it in mind and hopefully never have to do it. He's like 6'6 so not sure that was an option for him lol



I was gonna say, it might help to keep the sawdust collection in the bottom of the basket, to a minimum! lol.


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## FLtreeGuyVHTC (Jul 23, 2012)

Del_ said:


> Sorry to hear about your buddy and I hope he has a quick and full recovery.
> 
> 
> He needs to learn how to do a 'quick duck' into the bucket! God knows I've done it before!
> ...



So what happens when a limb falls on the bucket and comes in with you and you turn into a human shiskabob


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## imagineero (Jul 24, 2012)

FLtreeGuyVHTC said:


> So what happens when a limb falls on the bucket and comes in with you and you turn into a human shiskabob



Your co workers add marinade and fire up the BBQ.


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## Youngbuck20 (Jul 24, 2012)

Not a lot of human eating human around here. Bath salts haven't really made their debut yet.


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## tree MDS (Jul 24, 2012)

Youngbuck20 said:


> Not a lot of human eating human around here. Bath salts haven't really made their debut yet.



Turns out that guy wasn't on bath salts. They only found weed in his system, so it was a rather extreme case of "reefer maddness", if anything. Scary times indeed!!


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## Youngbuck20 (Jul 24, 2012)

Just munchin out maaaaan haha. I heard "synthetic marijuana" whatever the hell that is. They also said they don't have a test to find bath salts yet so they didn't find any, I thought that was pretty funny.


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## ropensaddle (Jul 24, 2012)

Safety is in the attitude, those who think safe have good common sense and training will be safer than a untrained hack. However we all been in those situations that after hindsight knew could of been prevented. Most of the regulations are designed to protect the big companies from negligence which is why they make you sign the tailgate safety meetings! That way they have proof you were informed in the event of accident. The good thing is the training after a few years will make new employees somewhat safer, because education verses trial and error can make difference between life and death. In this accident I'm glad the fellow came out ok and likely he knew after the fact a rope would of prevented it from coming back and may do so in future cuts. Awareness of task and hazards is paramount to safe job sites, unfortunately though you can teach ppe,methods and techniques some things must come through experience and even if you can recite anzi word for word it wont help in some instances. Example arrive at jobsite take out approved fuel mat fill saws with approved ridiculous safety can, put on chaps and all ppe and start toward work, dead 8 " limb snaps and falls on you, how is that a preventable accident? Some accidents could only be prevented by staying home but knowing that does not give anyone excuse to lax on safe operations, it just confirms all cannot be covered and we are in inherently dangerous occupation. Also many times safety such as ppe is more stressed than preventative measures for dealing with hazards and has always seem counter productive toward safe job sites imo.


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## MyTreeServices (Jul 24, 2012)

*The Stihl 201T, Product Recalls by stihl*

Product Recalls by stihl, STIHL MS 201 T chain saw, you can go to your dealer and they will take care of it for free. and that baby will scream again. to 14,000 rpm like the ms 200. just to lets you know.


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## KenJax Tree (Jul 24, 2012)

MyTreeServices said:


> Product Recalls by stihl, STIHL MS 201 T chain saw, you can go to your dealer and they will take care of it for free. and that baby will scream again. to 14,000 rpm like the ms 200. just to lets you know.



What is the recall for?? Stihl has nothing on their site about a 201T recall.


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## Youngbuck20 (Jul 24, 2012)

Does it have anything to do with carb?? Takes 3 pulls to start after warm and some of the time does not shut off.


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## MyTreeServices (Jul 24, 2012)

The saw only rev at 10 500 Due to a misprogramation in one of the sensor or something like that, that there is a total of 2,500,000 unit recall i will copy and paste the article , if you did buy the saw in the first 6 months when they came out with the new line of saw the dealers as to fix it at no fee. Stihl fix the problem after 4 months of production

The recall was for all product made in the first 4 months of the new line, 

Oct 14, 2011 – Product Recalls · Special Shipping Instructions. VIRGINIA BEACH , VA – The STIHL MS 201 T


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## deevo (Jul 24, 2012)

Youngbuck20 said:


> yesterday one of my fellow co workers was removing a big maple with the bucket truck. he was taking the top out and while doing his back cut it came back on him so he raised both his arms to stop it from landing on him and did the chainsaw charlie across his wrist. he lowered himself low enough that another guy could control the bucket. he passed out so we called 911. 3 animal like gashes and only 15 stitches somehow. it looked pretty painful you could see his muscles. back to work today. lucky lucky lucky.



Wow, sounds scary! Was it in that high wind we had Jeremy? I always put a pull rope in the top of the tree when topping (if its a big top) in the bucket or climbing. Hope h recovers quickly


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## Youngbuck20 (Jul 25, 2012)

No this was last week he was in the bucket. I was removing an ash yesterday in the bucket with that wind. After every cut the branch would go horizontal then had to throw it into the wind, needless to say there was some fence jumping to get a couple that the wind beat me. My first removal in the wind. Makes it hard to cut when the branch is moving a foot back and forth! He's alright. Workin with him in the bucket truck right now. it wasn't that big of a top but I guess the wind did push it back. I'm sure he's learned something from it.


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## deevo (Jul 25, 2012)

Youngbuck20 said:


> No this was last week he was in the bucket. I was removing an ash yesterday in the bucket with that wind. After every cut the branch would go horizontal then had to throw it into the wind, needless to say there was some fence jumping to get a couple that the wind beat me. My first removal in the wind. Makes it hard to cut when the branch is moving a foot back and forth! He's alright. Workin with him in the bucket truck right now. it wasn't that big of a top but I guess the wind did push it back. I'm sure he's learned something from it.



Cool Jeremy, at least it wasn't a big top and wiped him out and the bucket! I sent you a text also, got some work tomorrow if your interested!


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## KenJax Tree (Jul 25, 2012)

Youngbuck20 said:


> No this was last week he was in the bucket. I was removing an ash yesterday in the bucket with that wind. After every cut the branch would go horizontal then had to throw it into the wind, needless to say there was some fence jumping to get a couple that the wind beat me. My first removal in the wind. Makes it hard to cut when the branch is moving a foot back and forth! He's alright. Workin with him in the bucket truck right now. it wasn't that big of a top but I guess the wind did push it back. I'm sure he's learned something from it.



He probably learned to put a pull line on it next time its windy.


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## murphy4trees (Jul 26, 2012)

Sounds like he MAY have just made a bad cut... maybe he over cut the hinge, or made the back cut too high or bypassed the cuts on the face, causing the hinge to seize, until it failed. ALL SPECULATION of course, but it happens all the time, even to really good climbers.. Sound falling technique goes a long way to getting the job done fast AND SAFE in a bucket or climbing.. I've seen a lot of really good climbers and highly experienced riggers make some really bad cuts year after year....

Glad he's OK... Have you done a safety meeting to determine why the top went the wrong way?


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## treeclimber101 (Jul 26, 2012)

After the safety meeting you need to have a bad karma meeting with you him the chainsaw and a sledge hammer , I feel once a chainsaw tastes blood its now a maneater and can't be trusted , CALL ME CRAZY but I am not even joking the least bit


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## pdqdl (Aug 12, 2012)

I have a completely different guess as to why it went the wrong way. The only time I ever had trouble controlling a branch from a bucket truck was when I was at the limit of the buckets reach, and I was stretching the limits to get the job done quickly.

This was a big maple, as stated in the OP, and you can bet he would have gone higher and cut smaller if he could. He probably reached up and cut as high as he could, leaving no room for a rope to do any good. Next time, tell him to take a pole extension and a hook and set a line high enough to pull the branch over safely. Other options include using a pole pruner to take weight off one side first, or just piecing it out higher than the bucket can reach.

This is just my guess though...


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## rarefish383 (Sep 6, 2012)

I haven't posted on this thread in a long time, I find it frustrating to try and guess why something happened. I have mentioned, in the past, that I really don't see any less "accidents" now than I did 30 years ago. I am 100% sold on head protection. I grew up watching guys free climb to the tops of trees and never tying in untill they got to the top. Limb walking, every day. Maybe one reason you hear of more accidents now than way back, is there are so many more tree companies out there. When I was a kid there were only about a dozen tree Co in the the yellow pages, Wash DC Metro area, and 5 or 6 of them were relatives. They all fit on one page. Now there are pages of tree experts. Every Co has a couple rookies. So many more people and chances to get hurt. Back then every climber had a bunch of bad azz scars. I think most came from hanging pole saws above their heads, and having them get knocked off the twig, and raking them as they went by. I'm sure I hear of accidents that are caused by rookies that think if they wear every piece of ppe made they can't get hurt. The one accident that we seldom heard of was someone dying in a chipper accident. Now it's quite frequent. When I met my wife she said my back looked like I was a slave on a Roman Galley, whipped into working. Good old 16" chuck and duck. Usually when I read this thread the responses are similar, the guy was inexperienced, he was a rooky, he was a hack, and for about 50% of the accidents that's true. In most dangerous industries, most accidents are to people with less than 2 years experience, and people with over 20. There seems to be a group in the middle that seldom get hurt. We used to say the ones that were "too dumb" to know better (newbies), and "too smart" to know better (know it all pros).

I think that we've put too much time into "making" people wear ppe and not enough time into "making" them work safe. You can tell a rooky to look up a million times, but it is un-natural act for a person to walk around looking up. It hurts your neck, you can't see your feet. But if you don't look up, you won't see the widow maker hanging there, creating the need for your hard hat. It's hard to teach a rooky to move quickly under a tree. It's hard to teach him to keep the work area clean. If you keep the work area clean you don't have to look down at your feet as much, because there is nothing there to trip on, so you can look up more. Then you have climbers who want to put every thing on the ground as fast as they can so they can take a smoke break while the groundies clean up.

My Dad was one of the safest workers, and safety method trainers, I've ever known. Yet, he had a bad 25 to 30 foot fall, that put him in the hospital for a month. It was back when braided rope was first being used. We still used 3 strand twisted New England safety rope. We had a climber that would meet us at the job site. He was a "no show". Dad showed up in his Cadilac, running estimates, with none of his own gear. We had our climbers gear on the truck, so Dad said he needed a little exercise, and grabbed the other guys gear. Dad's number one rule was "NEVER USE SOMEONE ELSES GEAR". He broke his own rule. After his fall we inspected the braided rope our climber used and found several spots where the inner core had been severed. The climber had a bad habbit of chunking down trees and dropping the blocks on his rope. We figured he must of had the rope laying across a root or something and dropped a block on it, severing the core. That's one reason I NEVER let someone else do up my climbing line. If they do I stretch it back out and rewrap it. I want to run every inch between my fingers as I do it up.

For the record, this little rant has absolutely nothing to do with the OP'er. Since it was a minor injury with no loss of life or limb, I used it as a forum to preach safety as a lifestyle, not a piece of equipment. And, if safety is a lifestyle with you, you'll use the safety equipment. Not the other way around. Do you get my Drift? Thanks, Joe.


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