# The Forbidden Hack Question...



## SquirrelMan (Nov 13, 2012)

took down 25 small trees today (all less than 6 in) and 2 medium.. Of course i had only a 250 and a 290.. the 250 goes down like a hour in  and Im using a 6 in chipper on top of it all so every crotch has to be cut to fit through the chipper. All in all I would say atleast a extra hour and a half was wasted due to working only one saw. I am pretty broke at the moment but see Poulans on craigslist for around $75. I figured they must be of some use right? If a do the hack move and buy a wildthing.. how long will it last? lol Perhaps it should be its own thread but whats the best used saw for under a $100 (I feel like such a dirty hack for asking)


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## Jed1124 (Nov 13, 2012)

No reason to feel like a dirty hack. Why did the 250 go down? Maybe it is something simple like a bad fuel line. It's hard to find something worth spending money on for under a hundred bucks. There is a ms260 on the first page of the classified for $250 and a poulan 3400 on page 2 or 3. You would be much better off with a used quality saw than a wildthing or some other kind of newer junk. You can't make money with something that is just going to crap out on you again. Good luck!


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## aarolar (Nov 13, 2012)

Economy has got everybody down right now don't worry about it and do what you have to do to in order to pay your bills.


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## DavdH (Nov 13, 2012)

We keep a couple Poulans on the chipper to use on the ground. Usually have a couple spares on the bucket truck, cheaper by the dozen. We cannibalize them for parts so get a couple cheep and keep for spare for parts. Doesn't hurt near as bad to crush a a $50 saw as a $700.00 one, much easier on the help that way. Guaranteed you will get one some day!


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## SquirrelMan (Nov 13, 2012)

DavdH said:


> We keep a couple Poulans on the chipper to use on the ground. Usually have a couple spares on the bucket truck, cheaper by the dozen. We cannibalize them for parts so get a couple cheep and keep for spare for parts. Doesn't hurt near as bad to crush a a $50 saw as a $700.00 one, much easier on the help that way. Guaranteed you will get one some day!



lol yeah I think thats what I am going to have to do. The 250 would not hold a chain, got someone else to look at it and its just a problem with the bar. He said I should try filing down that bar with a flat file and see if it helps, it kept popping in a cut and the chain would come off, weird because it didnt pinch or anything. Just decided to pop off randomly and then would not stay on for nothing and there is no stihl shop even remotely close to where I was working today. I think I need a few spare bar and chains (but I already knew that, was just being a cheap-o) and to buy a cheap saw or two to back up and use at the chipper.


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## shawnw (Nov 13, 2012)

SquirrelMan said:


> lol yeah I think thats what I am going to have to do. The 250 would not hold a chain, got someone else to look at it and its just a problem with the bar. He said I should try filing down that bar with a flat file and see if it helps, it kept popping in a cut and the chain would come off, weird because it didnt pinch or anything. Just decided to pop off randomly and then would not stay on for nothing and there is no stihl shop even remotely close to where I was working today. I think I need a few spare bar and chains (but I already knew that, was just being a cheap-o) and to buy a cheap saw or two to back up and use at the chipper.


Sounds like you have a burr on or in the bar. Drag a pick through the groove and a straight edge across the edges. You'll find it eventually.


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## Pelorus (Nov 13, 2012)

SquirrelMan said:


> im a noob but I estimate $75 a man hour and count the climber as two men for trimming (im the climber and I get tired spikeless quick lol) My estimate tend to be under alot too but i try to hit $1000 with two helpers and a rented chipper at minimum. You should be at 2k minimum a day with all your equipment



I'm havin a bit of trouble trying to figure out the economics of what you said in the quopte above, with what you posted in this one. Something doesn't jive with your business model. You can't afford to buy a decent saw with the rates you are quoting?


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## 2treeornot2tree (Nov 13, 2012)

SquirrelMan said:


> took down 25 small trees today (all less than 6 in) and 2 medium.. Of course i had only a 250 and a 290.. the 250 goes down like a hour in  and Im using a 6 in chipper on top of it all so every crotch has to be cut to fit through the chipper. All in all I would say atleast a extra hour and a half was wasted due to working only one saw. I am pretty broke at the moment but see Poulans on craigslist for around $75. I figured they must be of some use right? If a do the hack move and buy a wildthing.. how long will it last? lol Perhaps it should be its own thread but whats the best used saw for under a $100 (I feel like such a dirty hack for asking)



If worse comes to worse, just go buy a new bar. Why have multiple saws that dont work!


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## treeclimber101 (Nov 13, 2012)

Pelorus said:


> I'm havin a bit of trouble trying to figure out the economics of what you said in the quopte above, with what you posted in this one. Something doesn't jive with your business model. You can't afford to buy a decent saw with the rates you are quoting?



Yup .... Nuff said :msp_sneaky:


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## Pelorus (Nov 13, 2012)

First saw I ever bought was also one of the best purchases I ever made. An 028 Wood Boss. 
It was my climbing, felling, limbing go - to saw. That saw made me thousands of $$$ over it's 8 or 9 year lifespan.
Back then (in the Dark Ages) to pay the bills and stave off the goblins, I needed to make at least $100/wk more than I was getting paid at a non-tree work fulltime job. That 028 got me going and kept us afloat.
Buying junk tools doesn't make sense when you need to make a living with them.


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## formationrx (Nov 13, 2012)

Pelorus said:


> First saw I ever bought was also one of the best purchases I ever made. An 028 Wood Boss.
> It was my climbing, felling, limbing go - to saw. That saw made me thousands of $$$ over it's 8 or 9 year lifespan.
> Back then (in the Dark Ages) to pay the bills and stave off the goblins, I needed to make at least $100/wk more than I was getting paid at a non-tree work fulltime job. That 028 got me going and kept us afloat.
> Buying junk tools doesn't make sense when you need to make a living with them.



yep... i got an 028WB that i still use sometimes... i love that saw... its mean and nasty... has never failed.. ####!..i hope i didnt just jinx myself....


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## B Harrison (Nov 14, 2012)

Spend the money on getting the 250 fixed and then look to getting a pro saw and the the 250 and the 029 will be back ups.


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## Pelorus (Nov 14, 2012)

I would feel real leery going to a dentist that uses a Dremel tool and an old barbershop chair cause he can't afford the real stuff. Google and watch "The Dentist of Jaipur" !!!!


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## SquirrelMan (Nov 14, 2012)

Pelorus said:


> I'm havin a bit of trouble trying to figure out the economics of what you said in the quopte above, with what you posted in this one. Something doesn't jive with your business model. You can't afford to buy a decent saw with the rates you are quoting?



I said I estimate... doesnt always work out lol. I just went into business, have spent 1k on climbing gear alone, bought a truck and got the saws... I dont have alot of work but I have alot of bills... Never said I was flat broke, Could go buy a 362 brand new right now but since I work for myself and winter is knocking at the door, what if the money isnt there when I need it say early january? 

I love the confrontation types here on AS... they should get their own AS thread with a extra "S" on it. opcorn:


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## Gologit (Nov 14, 2012)

SquirrelMan said:


> I love the confrontation types here on AS... they should get their own AS thread with a extra "S" on it. opcorn:



Hey, you asked for advice. You got advice. Just because you don't like the advice is no reason to start whining.

If you don't like the advice, don't take it...simple as that. But if I were you I think I'd listen to these guys.

If you're inexperienced enough that you can't diagnose simple saw problems I think you can get some help here. If you'll take it.


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## treemandan (Nov 14, 2012)

Pelorus said:


> I would feel real leery going to a dentist that uses a Dremel tool and an old barbershop chair cause he can't afford the real stuff. Google and watch "The Dentist of Jaipur" !!!!



Does he use a Poulan?:msp_scared:


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## treemandan (Nov 14, 2012)

SquirrelMan said:


> took down 25 small trees today (all less than 6 in) and 2 medium.. Of course i had only a 250 and a 290.. the 250 goes down like a hour in  and Im using a 6 in chipper on top of it all so every crotch has to be cut to fit through the chipper. All in all I would say atleast a extra hour and a half was wasted due to working only one saw. I am pretty broke at the moment but see Poulans on craigslist for around $75. I figured they must be of some use right? If a do the hack move and buy a wildthing.. how long will it last? lol Perhaps it should be its own thread but whats the best used saw for under a $100 (I feel like such a dirty hack for asking)



No one here approves and, obviously, you don't either .


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## SquirrelMan (Nov 14, 2012)

Gologit said:


> Hey, you asked for advice. You got advice. Just because you don't like the advice is no reason to start whining.
> 
> If you don't like the advice, don't take it...simple as that. But if I were you I think I'd listen to these guys.
> 
> If you're inexperienced enough that you can't diagnose simple saw problems I think you can get some help here. If you'll take it.



The person I was refencing in that statement did not offer me advice, he said "I'm havin a bit of trouble trying to figure out the economics of what you said in the quopte above, with what you posted in this one. Something doesn't jive with your business model. You can't afford to buy a decent saw with the rates you are quoting? " 
I am great appreciative of everyone who had something constructive to tell me. I am going to file the bar for burs and see if I can get it to hold a chain, pick up a back up bar and chain and to top it off I am going to shop for a cheap back up / helper saw at the chipper. 
I stand by my comment in regards to the confrontational types here on AS. There is really no reason to be like that.


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## SquirrelMan (Nov 14, 2012)

Pelorus said:


> I would feel real leery going to a dentist that uses a Dremel tool and an old barbershop chair cause he can't afford the real stuff. Google and watch "The Dentist of Jaipur" !!!!



I think that is quite a fallacious argument. Using a off brand of the appropriate tool is quite different from using a completely different and inappropriate tool all together.


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## SquirrelMan (Nov 14, 2012)

treemandan said:


> No one here approves and, obviously, you don't either .



LOL i can see from reading other threads that the poulan and their users are bashed quite a bit. Just wanted to see if anyone else uses them for simplistic tasks such cutting crotches for the chipper or bunching down brush on a trailer. If i can find one at $75 and it keeps me from missing one hour of down time then it pays for it self doesnt it?


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## Pelorus (Nov 14, 2012)

SquirrelMan said:


> I think that is quite a fallacious argument. Using a off brand of the appropriate tool is quite different from using a completely different and inappropriate tool all together.




Dammit, I hit the "like" button by accident! And there is nuthin fallacious about a new dentist just getting into business using a Dremel tool to grind out cavities. Dentistry, like tree work is a very serious business. I just wanna avoid such fellers as |Doc senior and Doc junior.

Sorry to have come across (in your estimation) as a self-righteous prick; I just encounter many tree hackers in my particular neck of the woods. It troubled my little black heart last evening to read about the California beach boy arborists enjoying great weather (as posted on the Commercial thread) whilst I am miserable in Ontario. It also bugs me that companies Like Stihl and Husqvarna produce a "consumer" or "homeowner" line of junk saws in order to go after a broader market share. Instead of just selling top quality products. Singer used to have a good name for building a good reliable sewing machine. Nowadays they produce plastic junk.


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## SquirrelMan (Nov 14, 2012)

Pelorus said:


> Dammit, I hit the "like" button by accident! And there is nuthin fallacious about a new dentist just getting into business using a Dremel tool to grind out cavities. \



You do not understand what a fallacious straw man argument is obviously.


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## treemandan (Nov 14, 2012)

SquirrelMan said:


> LOL i can see from reading other threads that the poulan and their users are bashed quite a bit. Just wanted to see if anyone else uses them for simplistic tasks such cutting crotches for the chipper or bunching down brush on a trailer. If i can find one at $75 and it keeps me from missing one hour of down time then it pays for it self doesnt it?



Are you asking or telling me a question.

The thing with these cheaper saws ( well, ANOTHER thing that is) is that there is nobody to fix them.


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## shawnw (Nov 14, 2012)

Pelorus said:


> Dammit, I hit the "like" button by accident! And there is nuthin fallacious about a new dentist just getting into business using a Dremel tool to grind out cavities. Dentistry, like tree work is a very serious business. I just wanna avoid such fellers as |Doc senior and Doc junior.
> 
> Sorry to have come across (in your estimation) as a self-righteous prick; I just encounter many tree hackers in my particular neck of the woods. It troubled my little black heart last evening to read about the California beach boy arborists enjoying great weather (as posted on the Commercial thread) whilst I am miserable in Ontario. It also bugs me that companies Like Stihl and Husqvarna produce a "consumer" or "homeowner" line of junk saws in order to go after a broader market share. Instead of just selling top quality products. Singer used to have a good name for building a good reliable sewing machine. Nowadays they produce plastic junk.


How many homeowners do you do work for know the difference between an MS250 and a MS261? How about Poulan or Stihl? Better yet....how many (of the people that "know" the difference) even care? People are cheap. Around here if you're the cheapest and insured (even insurance is iffy) you get the job. They don't care how you do it they just want it done.


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## Pelorus (Nov 14, 2012)

shawnw said:


> How many homeowners do you do work for know the difference between an MS250 and a MS261? How about Poulan or Stihl? Better yet....how many (of the people that "know" the difference) even care? People are cheap. Around here if you're the cheapest and insured (even insurance is iffy) you get the job. They don't care how you do it they just want it done.



Exactly! People ARE cheap. And my ISA CA credential counts for didley squat up here. But anybody shopping for a saw at a Stihl dealership certainly will be told the difference between models. The whole point of this exercise is that the OP is using "consumer model" saws to earn a living doing tree work "professionally". Like a dentist using a Dremel.....


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## SquirrelMan (Nov 14, 2012)

Pelorus said:


> Exactly! People ARE cheap. And my ISA CA credential counts for didley squat up here. But anybody shopping for a saw at a Stihl dealership certainly will be told the difference between models. The whole point of this exercise is that the OP is using "consumer model" saws to earn a living doing tree work "professionally". Like a dentist using a Dremel.....



Once again... using a MS 250 instead of a MS 260 is not anything like a dentist using a dremel which is completely unrelated to denistry. 
To educate you a small bit, here is what you are trying to do to win this argument. 
A straw man, also known in the UK as an Aunt Sally,[1][2] is a type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.[3] To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and to refute it, without ever having actually refuted the original position 

Straw man - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A straw man is a weak argument, it is used by weak people, dont be a weak person.


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## Gologit (Nov 14, 2012)

SquirrelMan said:


> Once again... using a MS 250 instead of a MS 260 is not anything like a dentist using a dremel which is completely unrelated to denistry.
> To educate you a small bit, here is what you are trying to do to win this argument.
> A straw man, also known in the UK as an Aunt Sally,[1][2] is a type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.[3] To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and to refute it, without ever having actually refuted the original position
> 
> ...



You're going to verrrrrry popular here... I just know it. :msp_rolleyes:


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## Youngbuck20 (Nov 14, 2012)

If the saw isnt going to be used in a tree or in any other situation where a real saw needs to be used then giver! If its gunna pay for itself why wouldnt ya buy it? Buy some loppers maybe. If the small branches are like an inch or less then loppers would work fine. No gas, no hazard, potentially just as fast as a wild thing. If someones gunna call you a hack just because your using a garbage saw for garbage work then thats their prob.


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## SquirrelMan (Nov 14, 2012)

Gologit said:


> You're going to verrrrrry popular here... I just know it. :msp_rolleyes:



Yeah, I dont take :censored: Makes me real popular both with ppl who dont take it and even more so with people who are full of it.. :msp_rolleyes:


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## SquirrelMan (Nov 14, 2012)

Youngbuck20 said:


> If the saw isnt going to be used in a tree or in any other situation where a real saw needs to be used then giver! If its gunna pay for itself why wouldnt ya buy it? Buy some loppers maybe. If the small branches are like an inch or less then loppers would work fine. No gas, no hazard, potentially just as fast as a wild thing. If someones gunna call you a hack just because your using a garbage saw for garbage work then thats their prob.



Yeah, thats the truth. I can understand the guys point about being a ISA arb though.. Im sure if the ISA ever caught a arborist using "homeowner" saw (even a stihl 250...) they would strip his certification just as quickly as they would a dentist who uses a dremel... LOL I know there are alot of idiots in the industry but I am still surprised to meet one who at least claims to be isa cert.


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## 2treeornot2tree (Nov 14, 2012)

Why don't you just get a Stihl 192. That way you can use it to climb with if needed and at the chipper for crotches


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## Pelorus (Nov 14, 2012)

SquirrelMan said:


> Yeah, thats the truth. I can understand the guys point about being a ISA arb though.. Im sure if the ISA ever caught a arborist using "homeowner" saw (even a stihl 250...) they would strip his certification just as quickly as they would a dentist who uses a dremel... LOL I know there are alot of idiots in the industry but I am still surprised to meet one who at least claims to be isa cert.



I have a 250 I keep by the chipper for the donkey to use. They are perfectly suited for one another.
My cert number is ON-0459A. The same number that I had back in the '90s when I also had an ISA and NAA membership, duh.
You dropped a fair bit of coin on buying climbing gear. Right? 
So why the heck are you gonna cheap out by buying a Poulan? This is analogous (not a straw man) to a carpenter driving a nice truck that uses a $2.99 hammer he got at Wallyworld. Not saying he has to buy a Stiletto, but if You are gonna play the game, You need the right tools.
Leave the homeowner saws for homeowners to use on weekends.


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## Youngbuck20 (Nov 14, 2012)

SquirrelMan said:


> Yeah, thats the truth. I can understand the guys point about being a ISA arb though.. Im sure if the ISA ever caught a arborist using "homeowner" saw (even a stihl 250...) they would strip his certification just as quickly as they would a dentist who uses a dremel... LOL I know there are alot of idiots in the industry but I am still surprised to meet one who at least claims to be isa cert.



Not everyone can afford the best tools. No one can be stripped of anything based on the tools they use. Its still a chainsaw, it sucks, a lot, but it will work, sometimes lol. The 192 is a good idea. I have one and the more I use it the more I like it. It cant blow through wood by any means but will do your task and more just fine.


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## jefflovstrom (Nov 14, 2012)

SquirrelMan said:


> Yeah, I dont take :censored: Makes me real popular both with ppl who dont take it and even more so with people who are full of it.. :msp_rolleyes:



Man, you got some real thin skin. 
Jeff


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## treemandan (Nov 14, 2012)

jefflovstrom said:


> Man, you got some real thin skin.
> Jeff



Yeah and nobody even said anything rude.

I have seen those saws in action and they are very slow and underpowered. It will do nothing but piss a working man off or keep a wannabe busy yanking on it.


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## Pelorus (Nov 14, 2012)

You can save even more $$$ by buying a factory recon Poulan on sale at a place like Princess Auto!
Just trying to be helpful here, and not stir the pot or anything like that. :cool2:


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## Bermie (Nov 14, 2012)

That 250 should NOT go down in an hr...
If its just the chain coming off, then do a thorough investigation of your tension, the bar condition, sprocket condition.
Do you know what to look for on the bar and sprocket, besides an obvious burr on the sides? I'd rather ask first than post a bunch of stuff if you already know.


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## SquirrelMan (Nov 14, 2012)

treemandan said:


> Yeah and nobody even said anything rude.
> 
> I have seen those saws in action and they are very slow and underpowered. It will do nothing but piss a working man off or keep a wannabe busy yanking on it.



I was compared to a dentist using a dremel to perform dental surgery since I use a stihl 250 and 290.. Calling me a hack is rude, especially in consideration that I follow all the ISA codes, never spiked a tree to trim and do not use illegals. I might be small and not too fancy, but I am not a hack.


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## SquirrelMan (Nov 14, 2012)

jefflovstrom said:


> Man, you got some real thin skin.
> Jeff



If I compared your work to a third world unlicensed dentist using a power tool to work on patients, your panties would be all in wad, nothing compared to the comments I have made.


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## jefflovstrom (Nov 14, 2012)

treemandan said:


> Yeah and nobody even said anything rude.



Right, but then, Squirrel's are sensitive. They don't fit into a 'Man-Suit'.
Jeff


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## jefflovstrom (Nov 14, 2012)

SquirrelMan said:


> If I compared your work to a third world unlicensed dentist using a power tool to work on patients, your panties would be all in wad,



Dude, if you are crying over this, you should go to the archives and back up your statement! You could not handle the stuff said to or about me,, 
If you need to be handled with 'kid gloves', you should say so in advance. 
Not sure we have a room for that, tho!
Jeff


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## SquirrelMan (Nov 14, 2012)

jefflovstrom said:


> Right, but then, Squirrel's are sensitive. They don't fit into a 'Man-Suit'.
> Jeff



Very cute, must be nice sitting in the office all day directing traffic for someone else business. Do you really think you could start with nothing like me and make it? I had literally zero dollars this year now I have 2 saws, all the ropes gear and a truck (I was driving a hooptie nissan sentra last year). You like to talk down to everyone but dont even have the gumption to do your own business. Your a office boy. Be sure to post in the injury section when you get carpal tunnel.

-Squirrel


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## Bermie (Nov 14, 2012)

Arguing over he said, she said will not advance a solution to your problem!
Ignore the dopes, stand stong in yourself, and filter out the good advice, now, do you want some info on bar condition or not?
No WAY your 250 should be troubling you...I started with an 021, then a 250, then a 290...now I'm fully equiped (small trees now) 200t, 260 pro, 361...BTW my 021 is STILL going strong at 15yrs old!


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## Pelorus (Nov 14, 2012)

Hey! I've had carpal tunnel surgery, hernia X2, broken wrist, fractured vertebae X4, fractured pelvis, chainsaw lacerations, etc. Does that count? 

Them sidewalk dentists in Jaipur (Doc senior and Doc junior) are not hacks! AND, they can also repair bicycles.
I may have inferred that you have a hackery gene in your DNA, but I'm sure that you think you know what I think that you think you know.


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## 2treeornot2tree (Nov 14, 2012)

SquirrelMan said:


> I was compared to a dentist using a dremel to perform dental surgery since I use a stihl 250 and 290.. Calling me a hack is rude, especially in consideration that I follow all the ISA codes, never spiked a tree to trim and do not use illegals. I might be small and not too fancy, but I am not a hack.



I beleave he was refurring to you wanting to use a wlldthing. I know hacks with better saws. If your gonna do the job, get the right equipment. 

I know i wont want my auto mechanic working on my car with only harbor frieght tools in his box. It tells me he dont care even enough to buy proper tools, is he gonna care enough to make sure he puts all my lug nuts back on and torched on my car.


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## treeclimber101 (Nov 14, 2012)

Well maybe I will just say it then ...... This thread is started by someone who can't keep a chain running on the bar ! I mean come on , the same kinda guy that needs the little gas can and oil picture to mark what hole to put it in ! I say go buy out the local ACE hardware for as many wild things as you can swing , and while your at it stock up on the yellow 3 strand rope , ya know the same #### your neighbor uses to tie down his BBQ tarp ! :hmm3grin2orange: ya don't wanna have to keep lowering branches on tied together shoe laces LOl


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## Pelorus (Nov 14, 2012)

Dammit! I wanted to use the auto mechanic - Harbour Freight analogy!
How 'bout Michelangelo painting the ceiling of the Sistene Chapel with a Dollar Store paint roller?, or Stradavarious making violins with a pocketknife?
A good craftsman never blames his tools. (prolly cause he doesn't buy junk)


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## SquirrelMan (Nov 14, 2012)

treeclimber101 said:


> Well maybe I will just say it then ...... This thread is started by someone who can't keep a chain running on the bar ! I mean come on , the same kinda guy that needs the little gas can and oil picture to mark what hole to put it in ! I say go buy out the local ACE hardware for as many wild things as you can swing , and while your at it stock up on the yellow 3 strand rope , ya know the same #### your neighbor uses to tie down his BBQ tarp ! :hmm3grin2orange: ya don't wanna have to keep lowering branches on tied together shoe laces LOl



Oh yeah, you got me pegged. Im a bad guy to consider buying a $75 saw so my helper can cut up brush. The shoe laces work better than you would think. What kind of equipment did you start your company with? Does your breath always smell like that when you talk or is it just this thread?


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## treeclimber101 (Nov 14, 2012)

2treeornot2tree said:


> I beleave he was refurring to you wanting to use a wlldthing. I know hacks with better saws. If your gonna do the job, get the right equipment.
> 
> I know i wont want my auto mechanic working on my car with only harbor frieght tools in his box. It tells me he dont care even enough to buy proper tools, is he gonna care enough to make sure he puts all my lug nuts back on and torched on my car.



I just gotta say this , your spelling is atrocious ! I mean really ?


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## treeclimber101 (Nov 14, 2012)

SquirrelMan said:


> Oh yeah, you got me pegged. Im a bad guy to consider buying a $75 saw so my helper can cut up brush. The shoe laces work better than you would think. What kind of equipment did you start your company with? Does your breath always smell like that when you talk or is it just this thread?



I never ran a wild thing ever , never ever. My first saw was given to me by my pop , and it was a stihl , hes not a cheap #### either .


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## SquirrelMan (Nov 14, 2012)

I appreciate all the constructive criticism in this thread, just cant understand all the animosity. Picking up a cheap o saw for having a helper cut brush.. who would of thought it would bring out so much negativity lol. I am done with this thread. My bar was slightly bent, got a new bar and chain, problem solved. Still going to pick up a cheap saw on CL as soon as I see one close to me. Thanks again to all the level headed replies.


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## treeclimber101 (Nov 14, 2012)

I agree completely with these guys , you are hired as a "professional " , you charge for a service ! No offense but guys like you gladly take money outta other peoples pockets , so after you get it then go at least have some respect for the business and buy some #### that doesn't make the entire profession look like something drunks do between happy hours , and if you gotta go spend your last few bucks you have saved for rent on Good tools , well welcome to the business we've all grown balls big enough to muscle through that part !


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## SquirrelMan (Nov 14, 2012)

treeclimber101 said:


> I agree completely with these guys , you are hired as a "professional " , you charge for a service ! No offense but guys like you gladly take money outta other peoples pockets , so after you get it then go at least have some respect for the business and buy some #### that doesn't make the entire profession look like something drunks do between happy hours , and if you gotta go spend your last few bucks you have saved for rent on Good tools , well welcome to the business we've all grown balls big enough to muscle through that part !




Last post, last time with the straw man arguments. the customer is not getting a piss poor deal if someone uses a poulan as opposed to a 261 to hack brush already on the grown. did a big job yesterday essentially with only a 290 (not a pro saw) same end result. enjoy that high horse partner, watch out for the fall.


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## Pelorus (Nov 14, 2012)

SquirrelMan said:


> Last post, last time with the straw man arguments. the customer is not getting a piss poor deal if someone uses a poulan as opposed to a 261 to hack brush already on the grown. did a big job yesterday essentially with only a 290 (not a pro saw) same end result. enjoy that high horse partner, watch out for the fall.




I dunno, but talking about Poulan Wild Things just brings unleashes the beast in me.
I simply can't control myself. Somebody please help me.


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## Zale (Nov 14, 2012)

While you're searching for saws, be sure to buy a pair of chaps for your groundsman. Wild Things cut skin just as well as the other brands. Stay safe.


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## treemandan (Nov 15, 2012)

SquirrelMan said:


> I appreciate all the constructive criticism in this thread, just cant understand all the animosity. Picking up a cheap o saw for having a helper cut brush.. who would of thought it would bring out so much negativity lol. I am done with this thread. My bar was slightly bent, got a new bar and chain, problem solved. Still going to pick up a cheap saw on CL as soon as I see one close to me. Thanks again to all the level headed replies.



What do you mean when you say that you can't understand the animosity? You , yourself titled the thread " The forbiden hack question" and stated that you felt like a dirty hack so now you are a dirty hack. You did it. What did you expect from us? To give you a bath?


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## treemandan (Nov 15, 2012)

SquirrelMan said:


> Last post, last time with the straw man arguments. the customer is not getting a piss poor deal if someone uses a poulan as opposed to a 261 to hack brush already on the grown. did a big job yesterday essentially with only a 290 (not a pro saw) same end result. enjoy that high horse partner, watch out for the fall.





What those guys said were analogies not strawman.


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## Bermie (Nov 15, 2012)

Well, isn't this the 101 Forum? This is where those who are a bit leery of posting in the commercial forum are SUPPOSED to come and ask questions and seek advice.

I really think some of you guys need to lay off the flaming a bit, I mean is it impossible to suggest to a new person in a calm and reasoned manner they route that they might consider taking? 

I popped back over here from some of the other sites for a look see, and the flaming on the commercial thread is understandable, if you think you have the guns to post there that take it like a man, or a woman in my case!
But here, why the wars?

Squirriel...if you want to but a cheap stand in saw for bashing around the chipper, you go right ahead, you know how long it will last, and you will buy the good stuff when you can! 
Bent bar eh...someone must have really layed on that 250 to do that! Perhaps using it on too big a tree, or got it stuck...

BTW, I still have my 290, until I can afford a 441 or 562, I'll use that orange handled sucka on any job!


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## treeclimber101 (Nov 15, 2012)

He deserves it ! And not just from this thread .


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## treeclimber101 (Nov 15, 2012)

treemandan said:


> What those guys said were analogies not strawman.



No he's right I said he uses shoe laces for lowering lines ! Maybe it's me , it must be .


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## Bermie (Nov 15, 2012)

I still think there are ways to guide folks in a better direction than ridicule and character assasination.
I have been known to get impatient sometimes, but shouldn't we stop short of stupidity in our efforts? I see no need to sink to the lowest common denominator in discussions.

THis could be a Mars/Venus thing...I am a gal after all.


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## treeclimber101 (Nov 15, 2012)

I didn't grow up like that ! In my house there was a such thing as a dumb question , and dumbasses for that matter , if I jumped off the roof my dad didn't pat me on the head if I broke my leg , he would yell at me and tell me all the way to the hospital I was an idiot ! Maybe if we stopped rewarding people for mediocrity we would actually start to accel . Again maybe it's just me ! Just seems that there's a lot of coddling going on anymore , and that's nice that your a woman , it's a nice change , there should be more here .


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## jefflovstrom (Nov 15, 2012)

treeclimber101 said:


> I didn't grow up like that ! In my house there was a such thing as a dumb question , and dumbasses for that matter , if I jumped off the roof my dad didn't pat me on the head if I broke my leg , he would yell at me and tell me all the way to the hospital I was an idiot ! Maybe if we stopped rewarding people for mediocrity we would actually start to accel . Again maybe it's just me ! Just seems that there's a lot of coddling going on anymore , and that's nice that your a woman , it's a nice change , there should be more here .



I hear you, although your wording is only understood by a certain group. 
I quess to the 'thin skin' guy's and the 'Gals', we seem harsh and crass,, 
In the defense of (cough), 101,, Squirrel is jumping in on every thread and deserves any feed back he get's.
No matter what forum he puts in in. 
I remember way back when,, Smokey,, now a squirrel? hmmmm
Jeff


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## TheJollyLogger (Nov 15, 2012)

Just because this thread has gone totally sideways, and because I've had a couple, don't ya think in Mad max beyond thunderdome, when Mel was crankin on that pull-on, he was thinking "dam, I should have bought a Stihl!" Lord, I apologize for that one.


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## Pelorus (Nov 16, 2012)

Bermie said:


> I still think there are ways to guide folks in a better direction than ridicule and character assasination.
> I have been known to get impatient sometimes, but shouldn't we stop short of stupidity in our efforts? I see no need to sink to the lowest common denominator in discussions.
> 
> THis could be a Mars/Venus thing...I am a gal after all.




Hi Bernie!
This here Squirrel is a tapole who wants to be a frog a mlittle too desperately. 
His metamorphosis to (self-conferred) arboricultural puberty hit a speed bump here, but the squirrel just needs knowledge & experience. As do we all. Anyway, I mean the squirrel no ill will, and my Dentists with Dremels in Straw Huts comment was not intended to be mean sprited. Heck no.
If I run over a squirrel with my truck tomorrow, I will surely mourn it's passing.


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## Pelorus (Nov 16, 2012)

I gotto get to bed. It's like bedtme even for the California Cabal.
Tried to put an eye splice in some Poison Ivy tonight, and that sucker got me beat.


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## 2treeornot2tree (Nov 16, 2012)

Got the perfect saw for you buddy.


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## RandyMac (Nov 16, 2012)

2treeornot2tree said:


> Got the perfect saw for you buddy.



You are just mean, what if he lost an eye playing with that thing.


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## Zale (Nov 16, 2012)

RandyMac said:


> You are just mean, what if he lost an eye playing with that thing.



Not a chance. Its got the safety tip on it.


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## RandyMac (Nov 16, 2012)

Zale said:


> Not a chance. Its got the safety tip on it.



Yeah, but we are talking about a Squirrel that carries it's nuts in it's mouth.


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## imagineero (Nov 16, 2012)

Pelorus said:


> I gotto get to bed. It's like bedtme even for the California Cabal.
> Tried to put an eye splice in some Poison Ivy tonight, and that sucker got me beat.



I've done quite a few splices in poison ivy with not much more than a coat hanger and some whipping twine. What's got you beat? Getting the core buried into the tail is probably the hardest part. Getting the eye milked fully closed is probably the second. A rubber mallet and some patience helps for the latter. A brian toss splicing wand helps for the former, otherwise the coathanger plus slippery tape method works ok for the cheap skates like me. Milking a LOT of cover back to the eye before attempting to bury the core into the tail helps too.

Shaun


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## Pelorus (Nov 16, 2012)

Getting that core pulled back into the tail is where I hit the wall. Didn't feel up to going outside to the vise on the chipper last night, whch might have made a difference. I'm amazed how easy the U-tube video (Nick splicing Blue Moon) makes the process look. Seems almost like the guy is cheating!

Daughter lent me some yellow and pink nailpolish to make marks that show up on the Poison Ivy. Tried using thread, but that sucked.
I broke the loop on the end of ny Toss wand, and not having much luck experimenting with whipping twine or heavy nylon thread loops. The stopper knot gets pulled through when you yank really hard. Also, when inserting the wand (or the coathanger; I tried that as well), it would snag the core pretty easy, so it took a lot of fiddling to even get a clear path through the tail........and then the loop would let go! Just one of those nights.
Have only spliced Stable braid before this, and that is a cakewalk compared to this 24 strand stuff.


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## imagineero (Nov 16, 2012)

Was it used, or new? New isn't that hard. Used is near on suicidal. I'll try to post up some tips on gettting the core buried into the tail tomorrow. Maybe we ought to start a new thread.

Shaun


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## Gologit (Nov 16, 2012)

imagineero said:


> Was it used, or new? New isn't that hard. Used is near on suicidal. I'll try to post up some tips on gettting the core buried into the tail tomorrow. Maybe we ought to start a new thread.
> 
> Shaun



A splicing thread would be a great idea.


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## Pelorus (Nov 16, 2012)

Gologit said:


> A splicing thread would be a great idea.



Sorry about the detour. 
Hey Gologit, if you want to delete these splice posts or move them I'm ok either way.


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## Gologit (Nov 16, 2012)

Pelorus said:


> Sorry about the detour.
> Hey Gologit, if you want to delete these splice posts or move them I'm ok either way.



Let's leave them. It's nice to see this thread go in a positive direction.


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## RandyMac (Nov 16, 2012)

How about cable splicing, get to see blood spilled.


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## alonfn4 (Nov 16, 2012)

SquirrelMan said:


> Oh yeah, you got me pegged. Im a bad guy to consider buying a $75 saw so my helper can cut up brush. The shoe laces work better than you would think. What kind of equipment did you start your company with? Does your breath always smell like that when you talk or is it just this thread?



Well I have been in the business for 1 year now 
I Saved up and started with a Stihl ms200t and basic climbing and rigging gear 
Now one year later I have an ms362 and ms660 Complete set rigging gear and Climbing gear
I sub all my chipping work out and I have 2 guy that work part-time. I average about $1500-$2000 per day 
That comes out to (half day of chipping $250) (2 gound guys $125x2) (Me Climbing at $300 what I pay myself)
and the other 700 - 1200 goes into the business account. Now we don't make a killing i do ok for being new to the biz (i have 4 years experience)
but if u can't spend a few hundred buck on a pro level saw Then you need to look at you business model and fix things there is money to be made in this industry.

If you do 
good work, show up, are honest, look and act professional have reasonable rates 
then there should be no reason that you cant make enough money to buy a saw

what you saying just doesn't make sense 


by the way when I bought my ms660 it was paid for within 2 hours of picking it up


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## OCTJ (Nov 17, 2012)

alonfn4 said:


> Well I have been in the business for 1 year now
> I Saved up and started with a Stihl ms200t and basic climbing and rigging gear
> Now one year later I have an ms362 and ms660 Complete set rigging gear and Climbing gear
> *I sub all my chipping work out *and I have 2 guy that work part-time. I average about $1500-$2000 per day
> ...





Wow, your chipper sub sure does work cheap!


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## Bermie (Nov 17, 2012)

Fair enough, if someone's a tool, then they are a tool.

I wouldn't still be in this game if I had thin skin, 25 yrs of working with guys


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## treemandan (Nov 17, 2012)

OCTJ said:


> Wow, your chipper sub sure does work cheap!



The whole thing sounds a far fetched.


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## alonfn4 (Nov 18, 2012)

The Guy I use has a 5 yard dump with high side, a 12" Morbark chipper, a Stihl ms290 and ms660 and that is his whole operation. 
He is a one man show (250/half day) (500/full day) plus dump fees (most place he knows are free but at most its $8/yard)

We have gotten it down to a science it took a few tries but this is usually how we do things. 

We usually start between 7am-8am. I come in with my 2 guys put the brush/tree on the ground cut the brush and stack it for chipping. We try and get all the brush down by 11am-12pm The chipper guy comes right around lunch time (On really big job he comes in the Day after the removal). One of my guys helps feed the chipper while my other guy is working with me either roping if its technical or bucking rounds if its on the ground. When the truck is full he heads out to the dump which gives us Roughly 30-60 depending on the town were in. We can usually do 2 loads of chips like this by 2pm at the latest, while he's out dumping chips my 2 guys start bring logs/rounds to where the truck was parked, while I take the ms660 and buck the #### out of what ever is left. When the truck gets back my guys load it up asap while I start cleaning up the Job site. He Keeps the fire wood if the home owner doesn't want it and takes it to his lot which is about 30min from most of the areas we work in. We can get 2 load of fire wood in by the end of the day. He heads out with the last load and we pack the truck and were GONE.... and if the home owner keeps the fire wood its even FASTER


Say what you want but we make it happen.


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## jefflovstrom (Nov 18, 2012)

alonfn4 said:


> The Guy I use has a 5 yard dump with high side, a 12" Morbark chipper, a Stihl ms290 and ms660 and that is his whole operation.
> He is a one man show (250/half day) (500/full day) plus dump fees (most place he knows are free but at most its $8/yard)
> 
> We have gotten it down to a science it took a few tries but this is usually how we do things.
> ...



I read this three times to see if I was laughing at something,,, yup,, after three times,, I am still laughing,,LOL!
Jeff :msp_scared:


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## treeclimber101 (Nov 18, 2012)

jefflovstrom said:


> I read this three times to see if I was laughing at something,,, yup,, after three times,, I am still laughing,,LOL!
> Jeff :msp_scared:



Wait the last line if that paragraph is now gonna be my slogan " say what you want we make it happen " LOL


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## alonfn4 (Nov 18, 2012)

I will laugh with you, all the way to the bank. Hey it works and I am not complaining.


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## jefflovstrom (Nov 18, 2012)

alonfn4 said:


> I will laugh with you, all the way to the bank. Hey it works and I am not complaining.



Good for you,, now I gotta stop laughing! :msp_biggrin:
Jeff


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## treeclimber101 (Nov 18, 2012)

alonfn4 said:


> I will laugh with you, all the way to the bank. Hey it works and I am not complaining.



Where you at in jersey , I am down near deptford .


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## alonfn4 (Nov 18, 2012)

Morris County NJ


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## treeclimber101 (Nov 18, 2012)

alonfn4 said:


> Morris County NJ



Ohhh your a ways away .


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## Goose IBEW (Nov 19, 2012)

*Back to the core question of this thread.....*

Wildthing.........come on, are you serious?:msp_thumbdn: At the very least you could show some nostalgia and get an old Homelite Super XL. That way your man will take extra care of the Stihl when he gets it back.:msp_sneaky:


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## treemanbrisbane (Nov 24, 2012)

*A sharp chainsaw is a good cahinsaw*

Back to the original subject, I get broke sometimes so i know what he means. Come back from a trip abroad or something, pay the bills and two saws break at once.

I've found that if I need one to get me through a job, a sharp chainsaw cuts whatever brand it is. I'm not saying it's economical over time, though


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## alonfn4 (Nov 24, 2012)

treemanbrisbane said:


> Back to the original subject, I get broke sometimes so i know what he means. Come back from a trip abroad or something, pay the bills and two saws break at once.



Maybe you should rethink your priorities and not go on big vacations or unnecessary spending sprees, until you can afford the proper equipment. Then once your up and running with good equipment and plenty of jobs then you can afford the luxury's of vacations and nice thing that you might want. It took me about two years to get to the equipment I have now. I missed plenty of nights out with friends and a vacation or 2, but in the end its gotten me and my business to higher standard. We make more money more efficiently than we have ever done in the past. It was the 2nd greatest business investment i've made behind working for an old timer in this Biz. Knowledge being the first and best investment I ever made.


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## jefflovstrom (Nov 24, 2012)

alonfn4 said:


> Maybe you should rethink your priorities and not go on big vacations or unnecessary spending sprees, until you can afford the proper equipment. Then once your up and running with good equipment and plenty of jobs then you can afford the luxury's of vacations and nice thing that you might want. It took me about two years to get to the equipment I have now. I missed plenty of nights out with friends and a vacation or 2, but in the end its gotten me and my business to higher standard. We make more money more efficiently than we have ever done in the past. It was the 2nd greatest business investment i've made behind working for an old timer in this Biz. Knowledge being the first and best investment I ever made.



Sounds like his priorities are not trees, he spikes prune jobs. 
Jeff


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## alonfn4 (Nov 24, 2012)

I can 2nd that one


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## treemanbrisbane (Nov 24, 2012)

alonfn4 said:


> Maybe you should rethink your priorities and not go on big vacations or unnecessary spending sprees, until you can afford the proper equipment. Then once your up and running with good equipment and plenty of jobs then you can afford the luxury's of vacations and nice thing that you might want. It took me about two years to get to the equipment I have now. I missed plenty of nights out with friends and a vacation or 2, but in the end its gotten me and my business to higher standard. We make more money more efficiently than we have ever done in the past. It was the 2nd greatest business investment i've made behind working for an old timer in this Biz. Knowledge being the first and best investment I ever made.




Gday mate,

I said trips abroad, not vacations. You assumed a little too much there and got it wrong. I have made my sacrifices, too. They just haven't all been to get money.


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## alonfn4 (Nov 24, 2012)

sorry for jumping to conclusions, but i think you get my point...


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## jefflovstrom (Nov 24, 2012)

alonfn4 said:


> sorry for jumping to conclusions, but i think you get my point...



After all, he is in the right thread,,Hack,,,
Jeff :msp_scared:


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