# --------BEFORE CHAINSAWS-----firewood



## demc570 (Jan 28, 2014)

Wandering what your thoughts are on the subject of how before chainsaws where used,what was the best way to harvest firewood for one person cutting? a axe and or hand saw? or? thank goodness i wasnt around,and have read some on matter,but thought be neat to hear others stories handed down......you never know in these days in age if economy keeps up we might be back to old ways some day....food for thought anyway lets hope not,but love to hear some good stories on the harvesting methods before chainsaws!! thanksopcorn:


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## mdavlee (Jan 28, 2014)

My dad remembers cutting wood with an old hand saw that has a helper handle you can move to the end for a second person or use it as a one person. I have it hanging up now. This was in the 50s and early 60s before any one around him had a chain saw. They heated with coal some at that time.


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## Guswhit (Jan 28, 2014)

My father has the old township or city record books from the late 1890's to the early 1910's from where I grew up. It is a very small community right on the Mississippi River. It actually shows the old land plots that people paid a rent on to harvest firewood from before the locks and dams flooded the ground. He has some interesting pictures of people with horse and wagons loaded with wood coming from those plots as well, I'll try and locate and scan them if I can find them.


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## OhioGregg (Jan 28, 2014)

My dad use to say they cut trees with a 2-man crosscut. Then used a tractor mounted "buzz saw" to buck them, and axe, wedge & sledge to split. Of course they used coal & wood back in those days. I think they got an oil fired furnace as soon as they were available, or affordable.. LOL I have taken exactly ONE tree down with a 2-man crosscut, just for the heck of it. Never again..LOL


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## mainewoods (Jan 28, 2014)

My elderly neighbor went into the woods every winter with his pair of horses and cut wood for a logging company. He used an axe for felling and skidded logs to the wood yard. They paid him $1.00 a day and he told me he was glad to get it. Stayed at the lumber camp all winter - food was included. Said he preferred it over the 2 man saw crew.


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## slowp (Jan 28, 2014)

We couldn't afford a chainsaw. My dad would bring home chunks from somewhere--we didn't live in the woods, and he would cut it into lengths with a Swede Saw.


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## zogger (Jan 28, 2014)

I hand cut and heated and cooked with wood for years using a 30 inch sandvik bowsaw and a generic axe, with me and some ropes being the skidder from the woods. About 4 cord a year for heating, another couple say for maple syrup and cooking. I'd drag the stove, a two burner box stove, outside in the summer to cook.

I also had a big crosscut, but that was nuts to use compared to the bowsaw.

You learn REAL fast to not waste wood! You learn to keep and burn small! No wasted wood, no generic bonfires. When I took a tree, every single twig got used eventually. The small stuff is real handy cooking anyway, no need to waste larger heating chunks and "splitting kindling" when you got branch wood that size right there.


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## chuckwood (Jan 28, 2014)

mdavlee said:


> My dad remembers cutting wood with an old hand saw that has a helper handle you can move to the end for a second person or use it as a one person. I have it hanging up now. This was in the 50s and early 60s before any one around him had a chain saw. They heated with coal some at that time.



Somewhere in the basement is the two man saw my dad used to cut firewood with me when I was a kid. He didn't seem to understand or like things with motors on them. He gardened without a rototiller, cut wood by hand, and mowed the yard with a reel-type push mower. Ironically, he owned and managed a lumber company with a big machine shop, that he inherited. Maybe he had grown tired of machine noise and wanted peace and quiet when he was home. Some years back, I took the old two man misery whip to a saw sharpening service and got it tuned up, I was going to start my grandson out with it, but he didn't enjoy it much. To be honest, I didn't either. It gets really boring, I can't imagine how awful it must have been in the old days sawing with one of those things all day long.


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## demc570 (Jan 28, 2014)

zogger said:


> I hand cut and heated and cooked with wood for years using a 30 inch sandvik bowsaw and a generic axe, with me and some ropes being the skidder from the woods. About 4 cord a year for heating, another couple say for maple syrup and cooking. I'd drag the stove, a two burner box stove, outside in the summer to cook.
> 
> I also had a big crosscut, but that was nuts to use compared to the bowsaw.
> 
> You learn REAL fast to not waste wood! You learn to keep and burn small! No wasted wood, no generic bonfires. When I took a tree, every single twig got used eventually. The small stuff is real handy cooking anyway, no need to waste larger heating chunks and "splitting kindling" when you got branch wood that size right there.


awesome,really neat to hear..thank you


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## zogger (Jan 28, 2014)

mdavlee said:


> My dad remembers cutting wood with an old hand saw that has a helper handle you can move to the end for a second person or use it as a one person. I have it hanging up now. This was in the 50s and early 60s before any one around him had a chain saw. They heated with coal some at that time.



That's the kind of cross cut I had. I only used it for real big trees.

I tried several friends on the other end, bribes didn't work after one or two cuts.....

..so mostly I used it in one man config.


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## demc570 (Jan 28, 2014)

AWESOME STORIES,GOOD READING,GREAT STORIES,MAKES YOU YOU THINK------HOW EASY WE GOT IT NOW VS THEN!!

------------------------------LOVE THESE STORIES THANK YOU,KEEP EM COMING!!


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## Cheesecutter (Jan 28, 2014)

I remember my dad telling me how him and Grandpa would drop and buck 2-3 oak trees using a 6 foot misery whip during the winter. My Grandma, uncles and aunts would use smaller crossbuck saws and axes to buck the smaller pieces. They had a buzz saw for the limb wood. 11 of them working together still couldn't get it done quick enough for him. I still have several of those saws. I can't imagine cutting up an entire tree with those things. I have tried them, but only on smaller stuff and it wasn't for me either.


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## zogger (Jan 28, 2014)

demc570 said:


> AWESOME STORIES,GOOD READING,GREAT STORIES,MAKES YOU YOU THINK------HOW EASY WE GOT IT NOW VS THEN!!
> 
> ------------------------------LOVE THESE STORIES THANK YOU,KEEP EM COMING!!



OK, here's another story. Doing all that sawing, my arms and shoulders and wrists got unreal crazy strong. Now I am a little guy. This is my advantage now..the fake out! So..I used to drink back then..can't tell ya how many pitchers of beer I got arm rrassling big dudes in bars. BAM on the table. Big guy and friends just staring.....bottoms up!


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## demc570 (Jan 28, 2014)

well


zogger said:


> OK, here's another story. Doing all that sawing, my arms and shoulders and wrists got unreal crazy strong. Now I am a little guy. This is my advantage now..the fake out! So..I used to drink back then..can't tell ya how many pitchers of beer I got arm rrassling big dudes in bars. BAM on the table. Big guy and friends just staring.....bottoms up!


 i bet...........,thats sure gota be just as effective it not more so than lifting weights,and you got good health and got stronger, and wood and free drinks for your efforts +1......hats off to you my friend


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## Chris-PA (Jan 28, 2014)

A big difference between the world powered by hand and a world powered by fossil fuel is that country people did not try to live in small "nuclear family" units. It took more hands and time to do the labor, so multiple generations often lived together. Now it is our fossil fuel powered "energy slaves" that allow us to do the labor on our own. And one did not drive off to a paid job somewhere else for the majority of the day. It doesn't really compare directly.


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## CoolCat44 (Jan 28, 2014)

A couple of years ago, I spent two years in French Polynésia (Gambier) , even for a warm climate, you need wood! Perhaps 3 or 4 chainsaw for the whole island and 400 people. Those chainsaw were not very well maintained, and when you cut down a palm tree, it's like hitting dirt, so local chainsaw didn't impress anybody. The cost of good fuel and having a fresh barrel of 90 octane, almost out of reach... So all business related to wood cutting was done by hand! Cutting wood with axes, huge pile, and transforming into coal. I don't think 16 inches fire logs could have been a possibility!

When the whole fire was done, the entire process was over, we had really nice coal. Everybody from the village came down and pick up what they needed, nobody exaggerated, we repeated the coal production every 3-4 months. We also produce lime (far better than white paint!) once a year.<

When I show them a picture of north American wood pile, eashhhh... they thought the were a lot of work, and rather work with uneven cut pieces and bits of wood and... coal!

http://www.wikihow.com/Make-Charcoal


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## demc570 (Jan 28, 2014)

CoolCat44 said:


> A couple of years ago, I spent two years in French Polynésia (Gambier) , even for a warm climate, you need wood! Perhaps 3 or 4 chainsaw for the whole island and 400 people. Those chainsaw were not very well maintained, and when you cut down a palm tree, it's like hitting dirt, so local chainsaw didn't impress anybody. The cost of good fuel and having a fresh barrel of 90 octane, almost out of reach... So all business related to wood cutting was done by hand! Cutting wood with axes, huge pile, and transforming into coal. I don't think 16 inches fire logs could have been a possibility!
> 
> When the whole fire was done, the entire process was over, we had really nice coal. Everybody from the village came down and pick up what they needed, nobody exaggerated, we repeated the coal production every 3-4 months. We also produce lime (far better than white paint!) once a year.<
> 
> ...


awesome and just looked at the link attached,will try that this spring


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## zogger (Jan 28, 2014)

CoolCat44 said:


> A couple of years ago, I spent two years in French Polynésia (Gambier) , even for a warm climate, you need wood! Perhaps 3 or 4 chainsaw for the whole island and 400 people. Those chainsaw were not very well maintained, and when you cut down a palm tree, it's like hitting dirt, so local chainsaw didn't impress anybody. The cost of good fuel and having a fresh barrel of 90 octane, almost out of reach... So all business related to wood cutting was done by hand! Cutting wood with axes, huge pile, and transforming into coal. I don't think 16 inches fire logs could have been a possibility!
> 
> When the whole fire was done, the entire process was over, we had really nice coal. Everybody from the village came down and pick up what they needed, nobody exaggerated, we repeated the coal production every 3-4 months. We also produce lime (far better than white paint!) once a year.<
> 
> ...



Way cool! I think I could handle a year long vacation on your island. Big fun!


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## benp (Jan 28, 2014)

Growing up (ages 5-9) my dad's father would come winter with us. He was in his 80's. 

He would process about 14 cords a winter for us. 

He dropped and bucked with a 2 man buck saw.....by himself. 

He would load the rounds up on a sleigh that he built and pulled them up to the house.....by himself. 

He split with a sledge and wedge. My dad and I would help out with this part. Gramps did all of the felling and bucking before we got home. As soon as I got home from school I was out in the wood pile swinging the sledge or stacking. 

He was a tough man.


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## John R (Jan 28, 2014)

If they would have had chainsaws back in the 1800's, we wouldn't have any trees today.


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## demc570 (Jan 28, 2014)

benp said:


> Growing up (ages 5-9) my dad's father would come winter with us. He was in his 80's.
> 
> He would process about 14 cords a winter for us.
> 
> ...


man of men i say,wow that is alot of hard work and he wasnt spring chicken,,,,hats off to him and you


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## Dalmatian90 (Jan 28, 2014)

Geology professor from UConn did some calculations...and figured the time spent building stone wall around New England amounted to less work than they spent on firewood each year.

Also, some of it was work smarter, not harder -- a common rotation in New England back in the days of scythes was grain, when the grain started to go down plant it as hay, when the hay got weedy turn it to pasture, when the pasture got brushy let it become a woodlot. After 20 years come in and clear cut the 4" trees for firewood and turn it back into a hayfield. Not much else to do on the farm when the ground is frozen and snow covered, so cut the trees to 4' lengths to scoot out easily on frozen ground, and you can buck them to fireplace length throughout the year as you had time. Maybe a 50 to 60 year cycle in total.

As one of the folks above posted to, families were larger -- grandparents, unwed aunts, hired hands all in addition to the "family" in it. I know some folks who still follow a traditional rotation.


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## zogger (Jan 28, 2014)

Dalmatian90 said:


> Geology professor from UConn did some calculations...and figured the time spent building stone wall around New England amounted to less work than they spent on firewood each year.
> 
> Also, some of it was work smarter, not harder -- a common rotation in New England back in the days of scythes was grain, when the grain started to go down plant it as hay, when the hay got weedy turn it to pasture, when the pasture got brushy let it become a woodlot. After 20 years come in and clear cut the 4" trees for firewood and turn it back into a hayfield. Not much else to do on the farm when the ground is frozen and snow covered, so cut the trees to 4' lengths to scoot out easily on frozen ground, and you can buck them to fireplace length throughout the year as you had time. Maybe a 50 to 60 year cycle in total.
> 
> As one of the folks above posted to, families were larger -- grandparents, unwed aunts, hired hands all in addition to the "family" in it. I know some folks who still follow a traditional rotation.



What I thought was cool up in New England was you could go into the deepest woods with the oldest and biggest trees and still find mammoth old stone walls. All done with man/horse/mule and oxen power, using hand tools.


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## Holtby (Jan 28, 2014)

demc570 said:


> Wandering what your thoughts are on the subject of how before chainsaws where used,what was the best way to harvest firewood for one person cutting? a axe and or hand saw? or? thank goodness i wasnt around,and have read some on matter,but thought be neat to hear others stories handed down......you never know in these days in age if economy keeps up we might be back to old ways some day....food for thought anyway lets hope not,but love to hear some good stories on the harvesting methods before chainsaws!! thanksopcorn:


I can speak with some first hand experience from my youth on a NE KS farm. My brother and I used a 2-man crosscut alot to fell many a medium to smaller trees. Our Dad was real good with an ax and trimmed them out real quick and could cut em down with an ax too. We would stack long bucked up lengths in a big pile to cut up with tractor buzzsaw on the front end of a Farmall F20. No chainsaws, and didn't see one on the farm to help until a family friend bought a " Lil Beaver" chainsaw from Sears, I think??? I remember it being heavy and had manual chain oiler that was something else!!! Lots of the coldest part of late winter into early Spring, Dad would drag up whole dead trees and logs with the F20 and we would just cut up sections that the 3 of us could lift up to the buzzsaw table. Hope that is of some enlightenment )


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## zogger (Jan 28, 2014)

Holtby said:


> I can speak with some first hand experience from my youth on a NE KS farm. My brother and I used a 2-man crosscut alot to fell many a medium to smaller trees. Our Dad was real good with an ax and trimmed them out real quick and could cut em down with an ax too. We would stack long bucked up lengths in a big pile to cut up with tractor buzzsaw on the front end of a Farmall F20. No chainsaws, and didn't see one on the farm to help until a family friend bought a " Lil Beaver" chainsaw from Sears, I think??? I remember it being heavy and had manual chain oiler that was something else!!! Lots of the coldest part of late winter into early Spring, Dad would drag up whole dead trees and logs with the F20 and we would just cut up sections that the 3 of us could lift up to the buzzsaw table. Hope that is of some enlightenment )



Cool story!

used a buzz saw a lot too, some firewood but lots more making fence posts.

Sort of a civilization transition going on here, several members with the bulk hand sawing experience in their youth. I bet there's young guys here who have never even touched a bucksaw or bow saw or even seen a buzz saw. 

By one more generation, the only hand sawyers left will be mostly the guys clearing trails where any sort of mechanical saw isn't allowed.


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## Chris-PA (Jan 28, 2014)

zogger said:


> By one more generation, the only hand sawyers left will be mostly the guys clearing trails where any sort of mechanical saw isn't allowed.


I suspect that within a generation or two hand tools will be all that is used, as fuel becomes way too expensive and difficult to get.


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## zogger (Jan 28, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> I suspect that within a generation or two hand tools will be all that is used, as fuel becomes way too expensive and difficult to get.



Well, if you count a generation as 20-25 years, I would disagree. Two generations from now, I would tend to agree, if we make it that long. In the US anyway they will start pumping out natgas powered vehicles in big numbers sometime soon I bet.

heck, we are always one nut job fearless leader/president/head schmoo bad decision away from bad news anyway. So...could be, don't know. Geopolitics, big solar storm, you can never say never. made it through some previous ultimate doom periods in history, but...you never know either. 

It's good to have the skills and tools to go either way really, it just pays to prep. I am setup, fuel is here, can use it, if fuel poofs, we can muster on one way or the other.

It is a good reason, one of several, to get many years ahead on the stacks now though.

I remember the big OPEC squeeze, ten bucks a gallon, two gallons maximum gas. That was politics, but it didn't matter, it still happened. Instant no job for me, no way to get to work. Bought the last two bicycles they had at the closest pawn shop.


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## mainewoods (Jan 28, 2014)

I have a half dozen old stone walls on my property. Amazing the work that went into marking a man's boundaries.


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## mainewoods (Jan 28, 2014)

2 generations from now human beings will probably only have a thumb on each hand for texting.


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## Chris-PA (Jan 28, 2014)

mainewoods said:


> I have a half dozen old stone walls on my property. Amazing the work that went into marking a man's boundaries.


Sometimes I stand in a field and think about how much work it would take to cut down all the trees, burn and/or dig out the stumps, and haul the rocks to the edges with the sleds they used. And all before you can get a crop in at your new homestead. I just have to shake my head. Some of the areas on my hilly rocky land never got finished - the rocks were probably too big so they quit and likely used it as pasture.


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## Chris-PA (Jan 28, 2014)

mainewoods said:


> 2 generations from now human beings will probably only have a thumb on each hand for texting.


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## zogger (Jan 28, 2014)

mainewoods said:


> I have a half dozen old stone walls on my property. Amazing the work that went into marking a man's boundaries.



They had no choice, needed the farm land and hayfields and you know how the rocks grow out of the ground there. So they hauled them to the edges in stone boats. I did that for years too, pick the fields in the spring, and rehammer in fence poles that got frost heaved up. I used a tractor with FEL though to haul the rocks. Still a lot of work though....


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## mainewoods (Jan 28, 2014)

Damn right it was - tractor or no tractor.


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## mainewoods (Jan 28, 2014)

I believe they were stacked to mark out the edges of the cleared fields, not just for property lines.


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## farmer steve (Jan 28, 2014)

my only use with a crosscut saw was several years back.5 or6. seems our town farmers fair is always coming with something new. that year was a crosscut saw contest. i asked my dad who had used one in his younger days and he said yes.gave me a few pointers and we were in.after a 1/2 doz. or so teams sawed dad and i were in 1st. place.2 teams left.these guys were older than dirt.i think they invented it.they sawed like the wind. needless to say dad and i came in 3rd.to any of you have used these saws for real work my hat is off to you.


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## woodchuck357 (Jan 28, 2014)

John R said:


> If they would have had chainsaws back in the 1800's, we wouldn't have any trees today.


We logged with crosscut saws and axes when I was a youngster, and nothing was wasted. Logs were harvested, then posts, then what was left was cut into firewood. When we started using chainsaws we still cut the same number of trees, it just took less time. Timber production seems more wasteful now.
A properly sharpened and set crosscut operated by experienced people cuts very fast. I still use mine often just because I like using them. They look new except for the wear on the handles. A small amount of rust will turn using a hand operated saw into hard work.


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## slowp (Jan 28, 2014)

We still use crosscut saws for bucking out trails in the wilderness. Smokejumpers are trained to use them for falling snags in the wilderness. It is easier than you think to be on an end of one especially when you are younger. I'm going to try to go out this year and do some clearing. Last year a heel injury put the kibosh on that. 

When you use one of those saws, you definitely want to have a plan, and since they become a misery whip when dull, you are careful to skin the bark off before cutting, and even excavating underneath the log so you won't be in the dirt. It's quite an art.

From what I understand, tapered saws are not made anymore. Those are the best. So we baby the saws that we use.


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## zogger (Jan 28, 2014)

woodchuck357 said:


> We logged with crosscut saws and axes when I was a youngster, and nothing was wasted. Logs were harvested, then posts, then what was left was cut into firewood. When we started using chainsaws we still cut the same number of trees, it just took less time. Timber production seems more wasteful now.
> A properly sharpened and set crosscut operated by experienced people cuts very fast. I still use mine often just because I like using them. They look new except for the wear on the handles. A small amount of rust will turn using a hand operated saw into hard work.



way WAY cool man! I don't have one anymore, and have looked off and on local, but people want stoopid wall hanger auntycue money for their old junk ones. Someday I need to get a new one, and a selection of quality bowsaws. I have some cheap bowsaws now, that's it.


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## 513yj (Jan 28, 2014)

slowp said:


> We couldn't afford a chainsaw. My dad would bring home chunks from somewhere--we didn't live in the woods, and he would cut it into lengths with a Swede Saw.



My grandpa said way back when they used a Finn saw for most stuff. He prolly woulda rather used the Swede saw since that's what he was.


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## woodchuck357 (Jan 28, 2014)

zogger said:


> way WAY cool man! I don't have one anymore, and have looked off and on local, but people want stoopid wall hanger auntycue money for their old junk ones. Someday I need to get a new one, and a selection of quality bowsaws. I have some cheap bowsaws now, that's it.


I just bought a five footer off CL for 5 bucks a few days ago almost like new. Got one earlier for 10 that's in the reverse electrolysis bath to remove a light coat of rust. That one has a very aggressive double H tooth design that will be rough to use one man.


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## woodchuck357 (Jan 28, 2014)

513yj said:


> My grandpa said way back when they used a Finn saw for most stuff. He prolly woulda rather used the Swede saw since that's what he was.


We of Scott/German/Cherokee descent just call them frame saws!


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## 513yj (Jan 28, 2014)

woodchuck357 said:


> We of Scott/German/Cherokee descent just call them frame saws!



I'm guessing they called em Finn saws here because maybe the Finns beat the Swede's here. Dunno, but I wish I could ask him.


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## Chris-PA (Jan 28, 2014)

woodchuck357 said:


> I just bought a five footer off CL for 5 bucks a few days ago almost like new. Got one earlier for 10 that's in the reverse electrolysis bath to remove a light coat of rust. That one has a very aggressive double H tooth design that will be rough to use one man.


I picked up a 3' single handled saw with a removable handle that can be installed at the far end, or attached as an extra handle for one man use. It was $6 at the local flea market and is in very good shape.


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## Dalmatian90 (Jan 28, 2014)

mainewoods said:


> I believe they were stacked to mark out the edges of the cleared fields, not just for property lines.



Ayup.

Typically the earliest fences would have been zig-zag fences.

It took about 50 years for the stones to start being an issue -- a combination of the original forest duff/soil eroding off and frost working them up. Forest floors don't get frost to any where near the extent open fields do.

So you dump the stones along the zig-zag fences that you can't grow crops or mow easily near.

Later on, as you have time, you come back and straighten them up and make a wall about waist height which is as high as is comfortable to easily lift them.

The stones probably made it hog tight, but not high enough to keep cows from jumping over, nor sheep from clambering over (they, like goats, love to climb on rocky places!). So you still had to build a wood fence on top of them, probably like an "A" or "H" frame with the legs down to the ground and horizontal members above the stones, though there was a few styles. Whatever the design, they took a lot less wood then the old zig-zag fences (important now that you had cleared most of the land), plus they were straighter giving you more useable land in the cultivated fields.

For a family farm of say 1780 -- 1830 (and most stone walls were built after the Revolution!) that is cutting, splitting, and burning 30 cords a year...building 500' of stone wall a year around the farm really wasn't that much work in comparison. Do that for two or three decades and you're talking some serious wall building.


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## Mad Professor (Jan 28, 2014)

Been there done that.

Still have both bucking saws and felling saws that are sharp and ready to go. 

Anybody remember the difference? The feller is a little more flexible and thin. Also have files and point sets for both.

Four men work best. Two cutting, the third with a lever/limb to keep saw from pinching, the fourth takes a rest , and then you switch spots. Buck them into what your team can carry to a wagon. 

Take breaks and drink plenty of water.

Back home, saw horse comes in handy, you cut to length and split. 

Then eat hardy and sleep well.


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## Mad Professor (Jan 28, 2014)

Dalmatian90 said:


> Ayup.
> 
> Typically the earliest fences would have been zig-zag fences.
> 
> ...



Cows and horses got "hobbled" so they could not get too far away even without a fence. That was after there were no more wolves to worry about.

Not to get off topic too much, anyone ever put up hay, loose with scythe and a pitchfork right from the field? That is real work too.


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## alleyyooper (Jan 29, 2014)

Cutting fire wood all my life till the mid 1980's was a family affair and I mean family. We had double bit and single bit( dads favorite for some reason) plumb brand axes. We had bow saws, cross cuts and single man cross cuts and what we called Swedish saws and a couple of buzz rigs for the family.
Once the crops were harvested it was wood cutting time and before spring crops got planted. We built buzz piles of wood huge logs were split with wedges to make then manageable to place on the buzz rig table. Mom and aunts would cook huge meals while all the males were out buzzing wood from the pile which could take a couple of days or more. Then we would gather at a uncles place to repeat the steps till every aunt and uncle had stove wood instead of a buzz pile.
Some time about 1951 or so dad made a mounted rig for the buzz rig on the Allis Chalmers WC, later a WD and even later a Massey Harris 44. I have one that I've mounted on a Massey Harris 30. And a 3 pt one that mounts on the Ford 5000.
One uncle bought a stationary engine that he ran my aunts washer with cut fire wood and other chores so he could do stuff is self. 

Those were great family reunions where every one had a great time with great food.

 Al


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## Mad Professor (Jan 29, 2014)

alleyyooper said:


> Cutting fire wood all my life till the mid 1980's was a family affair and I mean family. We had double bit and single bit( dads favorite for some reason) plumb brand axes. We had bow saws, cross cuts and single man cross cuts and what we called Swedish saws and a couple of buzz rigs for the family.
> Once the crops were harvested it was wood cutting time and before spring crops got planted. We built buzz piles of wood huge logs were split with wedges to make then manageable to place on the buzz rig table. Mom and aunts would cook huge meals while all the males were out buzzing wood from the pile which could take a couple of days or more. Then we would gather at a uncles place to repeat the steps till every aunt and uncle had stove wood instead of a buzz pile.
> Some time about 1951 or so dad made a mounted rig for the buzz rig on the Allis Chalmers WC, later a WD and even later a Massey Harris 44. I have one that I've mounted on a Massey Harris 30. And a 3 pt one that mounts on the Ford 5000.
> One uncle bought a stationary engine that he ran my aunts washer with cut fire wood and other chores so he could do stuff is self.
> ...



Brings back memories of my grandparents farm. They had a buzz saw on an old Case tractor.


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## turnkey4099 (Jan 30, 2014)

We felled with ax and 2man crosscut...well, one man (dad) and boy (me). cut up with a one man dragsaw. Nice working that beast. Set on log, start, round comes off, move saw over, and while it was cutting split and load the previous round. Pleasant time in the woods that way and one really didn't work all that hard. The saw was not a speed demon. Did some work with one many buck saw and saw horses back at the farmstead. Also lots of being the take-off guy on the buzzsaw.

The amount of wood the original settlers used a year, all done manually, was amazing 20-30 cord per year. One wonders where they had the time to do any farming.

Harry K


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## firebrick43 (Jan 30, 2014)

Mad Professor said:


> Cows and horses got "hobbled" so they could not get too far away even without a fence. That was after there were no more wolves to worry about.
> 
> Not to get off topic too much, anyone ever put up hay, loose with scythe and a pitchfork right from the field? That is real work too.



I have and until just last year did it with a new idea hay loader pulled by a single Belgian or team(depending on terrain). Stacked outside in 20ft tall stacks. 

When you say fire wood you need to ask who was cutting. Farmers typically got the old technology and didn't do as well as those connected with the lumber industry. Most private individuals just like today's chainsaw owners could not sharpen their saws well and therefore they were misery whips. A well sharpened one with an team that works well together can cut as fast as a decent chainsaw. The wonderful swede saw which became know as the bow or buck saw can cut just as fast but with just one man as long as the wood is under 12-14"! Many employed in the pulpwood cutting would have to fell, buck into 4' lengths and stack 2 cords per day minimum by themselves or they would be let go. Some could even do 4! 

30 years ago I ask the old men(all dead now) about fire wood with buzz saws. To a t most said they wouldn't touch wood that we do today. Most cut small trees, ones that could be bucked to 8' lengths and picked up, stacked on a wagon, and brought to the saw. This also made for wood that need not be split as it was small enough already. Big trees of any value were sold on the stump, large trees down that needed out of the way were sometimes burned in place. Cutting large wood on a buzz saw was dangerous and created more chance for the blades to explode. Some more modern buzz saws had guards that would not allow more than 12-14" wood to be sawn. 8" wood and slab wood cutting really shine If the wagon or truck the wood is coming off of is the right Height and some one is on the off cut side take cut wood away. Just don't cut wood with metal or rocks in it, my great uncle perished this way when they blade explode catching him in the face.


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## AT sawyer (Jan 31, 2014)

Chris-PA said:


> I picked up a 3' single handled saw with a removable handle that can be installed at the far end, or attached as an extra handle for one man use. It was $6 at the local flea market and is in very good shape.



There is a rub with old saws. Many good ones are to be found at auctions and flea markets (in fact better quality than most new saws), but it's still a misery whip if dull. Finding someone to file it correctly, a job that will take hours if done right, will boost the finished price of that 6.00 saw -- but then you will have a quality saw jointed, pointed, and set that cuts far better than a "new" one purchased retail.


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## Chris-PA (Jan 31, 2014)

AT sawyer said:


> There is a rub with old saws. Many good ones are to be found at auctions and flea markets (in fact better quality than most new saws), but it's still a misery whip if dull. Finding someone to file it correctly, a job that will take hours if done right, will boost the finished price of that 6.00 saw -- but then you will have a quality saw jointed, pointed, and set that cuts far better than a "new" one purchased retail.


Ahh, but that's the thing - those are tasks I will learn to do myself. I like to sharpen things and enjoy acquiring new skills. I've picked up some saw sets too, mostly for finer pitch, but I think one of the last ones I found might be right. 

The particular saw I got for $6 appears to never have been used. If I recall correctly it is Sears branded, but seems to be a decent quality tool. The tooth pattern is not as aggressive as I've seen for western softwood, but I think that is good. I need to clean up the blade and it definitely needs sharpening even if it was not used.


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## AT sawyer (Jan 31, 2014)

You might have seen this if searching for saw filing, but if not, give it a look. My focus was on one-man saws because the small teeth don't always conform to the big jointer-raker gauges designed for 2-man saws. As for files, 8" mill and slim taper files are the only ones you'll need unless you want to lower the gullets, then a 1/4" chainsaw file does that pretty well.


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## slowp (Jan 31, 2014)

Here's the bible we use. I have a small saw that "sings". 
http://www.fs.fed.us/t-d/pubs/pdfpubs/pdf04232822/pdf04232822dpi72pt01.pdf


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## Chris-PA (Jan 31, 2014)

AT sawyer said:


> You might have seen this if searching for saw filing, but if not, give it a look. My focus was on one-man saws because the small teeth don't always conform to the big jointer-raker gauges designed for 2-man saws. As for files, 8" mill and slim taper files are the only ones you'll need unless you want to lower the gullets, then a 1/4" chainsaw file does that pretty well.



Thanks! That looks pretty close to the blade I have:



I was wrong about the Sears branding - must have been some other one I was thinking of. I saw no markings at all.


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## AT sawyer (Jan 31, 2014)

It might reveal an etch once you get it out of the electrolysis tank and give it a rub with fine sandpaper and WD-40. Otherwise, it looks to be in very good shape. The Warren Miller manual gives a good description of swaging the rakers, a technique you may want to consider when you do this saw. The small rakers and thinner gauge steel are easier to swage than the thick hard steel of heavy bucking saws.


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## Sandhill Crane (Oct 12, 2016)

In the mid-70's I worked with a short stocky old guy, thick European accent, hard to understand. Pretty quiet and to himself. I was told he was in a Russian prison camp when he was young. The men were paired up, and two men had to cut two trees a day into firewood, or they didn't eat. I assumed it was true. Something I do know is that he drove an old four door Buick. Neither front door opened, so he would use the back door and climb over the front seat. He had a good paying job, he just made do I guess.


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## svk (Oct 13, 2016)

I can imagine there was a lot more scrounging of firewood, fallen limbs and smaller trees that didn't need splitting and simply could be cut and stacked. Chop the tree down with a sharp axe then buck it with a good bow saw.

My grandpa, great uncle, and great grandpa did a lot of logging on our family property by hand. First during the depression then again in the mid 50's.


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## muddstopper (Oct 13, 2016)

A two year old thread that was enjoyable to read. 
Closest I ever got to harvesting firewood without a chainsaw was going camping. Always took a pole axe and chopped up downed stuff for campfire wood. I do have a almost new crosscut saw. It has a handsaw handle on one end and a straight handle on the other end. It can be used as a two man or one man saw. I also have a big bow saw. I have never used either of them and hope I dont have to. Got to keep em, cant use them if you dont have them, rather have one and not need it than not have one and do need it.


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## slowp (Oct 13, 2016)

I have been cutting up limbs to burn in the stove. I figured they'd at least be useful in the woodstove and put out some heat instead of burning in the slash pile. I can't seem to cut that small with my chainsaws, so I've been doing it by hand, with a pruning saw or a small (dunno what to call it, it has teeth like a crosscut) saw. It goes quickly and I can listen to the radio while cutting. 

Oh, I do think I heard my dad talk about using black powder to split wood. He grew up on the wet side of our fair state where the trees were still large, as were the sturgeon.


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## muddstopper (Oct 13, 2016)

slowp said:


> I have been cutting up limbs to burn in the stove. I figured they'd at least be useful in the woodstove and put out some heat instead of burning in the slash pile. I can't seem to cut that small with my chainsaws, so I've been doing it by hand, with a pruning saw or a small (dunno what to call it, it has teeth like a crosscut) saw. It goes quickly and I can listen to the radio while cutting.
> 
> Oh, I do think I heard my dad talk about using black powder to split wood. He grew up on the wet side of our fair state where the trees were still large, as were the sturgeon.


 You sound like my wife with her lopers. She goes around the yard cutting off low hanging branches and stacking them by the fire pit.


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## turnkey4099 (Oct 13, 2016)

muddstopper said:


> A two year old thread that was enjoyable to read.
> Closest I ever got to harvesting firewood without a chainsaw was going camping. Always took a pole axe and chopped up downed stuff for campfire wood. I do have a almost new crosscut saw. It has a handsaw handle on one end and a straight handle on the other end. It can be used as a two man or one man saw. I also have a big bow saw. I have never used either of them and hope I dont have to. Got to keep em, cant use them if you dont have them, rather have one and not need it than not have one and do need it.


I used one as a kid bucking logs. Hated it when dad loaded up the wagon and called me to help fall a tree. That crosscut earned its nickname "misery stick" in falling duty.


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## hayboy (Oct 14, 2016)

I guess its a bow saw, had a thin blade about 1 in tall, worked good for us. There is an old house in my neighborhood that has 5 chimneys on it, 365 days a year keeping them going.


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## rarefish383 (Oct 14, 2016)

This is the saw my Dad used up till the early 60's. Small limbing saws really hadn't come around yet. I found the helper handle at an antique shop for a buck, so I put it on. When my Dad was 79 he still had biceps the size of grapefruits, Joe.


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## benp (Oct 14, 2016)

rarefish383 said:


> This is the saw my Dad used up till the early 60's. Small limbing saws really hadn't come around yet. I found the helper handle at an antique shop for a buck, so I put it on. When my Dad was 79 he still had biceps the size of grapefruits, Joe.



That is awesome!!!!


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## svk (Oct 14, 2016)

I had a few of those that I sold over the years. May have one left somewhere.


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