# changing disk bearings on a 250XP



## imagineero (Dec 3, 2013)

Not sure if I really need to change the bearings or not, and I won't know until I get the thing stripped down later this week. On the chute side, the bearing had a missing bolt from about a month ago and I kept meaning to hellicoil it and replace it but today I found a second bolt sheared so I put the machine out of service. Looks like a real pain in the ass job, remove the chute, probably shear the remaining bolts trying to free them, remove belts, pulley etc, get the disk out, cut bearings off, cleanup the shaft, helicoil whatever threads are damaged and put it all together again. One bearing (pulley side) was $950, the other (chute side) was $450. I picked them up in case I need them, may just swap them out anyhow even if they seem ok. 

Local bandit dealer quoted minimum $1,000 for a straight swap assuming all goes well not including time/parts for helicoils etc.

Anyone got tips/pointers to make the job go easier? Anything else worth doing while I've got it all apart?

Shaun


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## Pelorus (Dec 3, 2013)

Chipper has a lot of hours on the clock?
Seems like selling bearings is a more profitable gig than treework. Must be quite the mark up on those things.


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## lone wolf (Dec 3, 2013)

imagineero said:


> Not sure if I really need to change the bearings or not, and I won't know until I get the thing stripped down later this week. On the chute side, the bearing had a missing bolt from about a month ago and I kept meaning to hellicoil it and replace it but today I found a second bolt sheared so I put the machine out of service. Looks like a real pain in the ass job, remove the chute, probably shear the remaining bolts trying to free them, remove belts, pulley etc, get the disk out, cut bearings off, cleanup the shaft, helicoil whatever threads are damaged and put it all together again. One bearing (pulley side) was $950, the other (chute side) was $450. I picked them up in case I need them, may just swap them out anyhow even if they seem ok.
> 
> Local bandit dealer quoted minimum $1,000 for a straight swap assuming all goes well not including time/parts for helicoils etc.
> 
> ...


Did you try a bearing supply house for the replacement bearings that price is nuts! what are the numbers off them?


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## treeclimber101 (Dec 3, 2013)

I would think bad bearings would at some cause the knives to strike the anvil , you may have a unbalanced wheel , as far as bearings you can find them a lot cheaper from sites like dodge and precision bearing


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## treeclimber101 (Dec 3, 2013)

http://www.dodge-pt.com/products/bearing/bearing_home.html this site has a lot of bearings


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## imagineero (Dec 18, 2013)




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## imagineero (Dec 18, 2013)

Just thought I'd post a follow up to this. The job went fine ad we did it in a (long) day last Sunday. Bearings actually were pretty good, but I discovered that who ever did them last had left maybe one (or two?) bolts sheared because they couldn't get them out of the hole. They'd been rusted in there a *long* time. Had originally planned on helicoiling them, but couldn't get a straight shot at the hole with a drill and didn't want to go cutting out the mounting blocks and welding them back in. Ended up calling in a thread repair guy who came with a bag of tricks including many different types of right angle drills etc and carefully drilled then dremmelled the bolts larger and larger until he had them paper thin and was able to collapse them with a punch - all with no damage to the original threads which he then recut with a light cut tap. 

There had been so much play in the bearing due to the lack of bolts that the whole disc was lifting when chipping larger logs. With 4 fresh cut holes with bolts in the whole thing is very solid now and I sleep better at night.

Shaun


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## a_lopa (Dec 18, 2013)

Looks a nice 250 there,One of if not the best chipper ever mass produced.


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## pdqdl (Dec 22, 2013)

imagineero said:


> Not sure if I really need to change the bearings or not, and I won't know until I get the thing stripped down later this week. ...
> 
> Local bandit dealer quoted minimum $1,000 for a straight swap assuming all goes well not including time/parts for helicoils etc.
> 
> ...



Not wishing misfortune on you, but I'm glad that you are posting this info. I have a bandit 200xp, and I am pretty sure that the machines are so similar that your experience here will be my training session for when my bearings fail.

Regarding dodge bearings: they are real dirt-balls. Dodge routinely makes "OEM only" bearings for manufacturers that cannot be purchased except from the dealer. Then the dealer breaks it off on you because they know you cannot get it elsewhere. I have been down that road with Alamo equipment.


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## lone wolf (Dec 22, 2013)

pdqdl said:


> Not wishing misfortune on you, but I'm glad that you are posting this info. I have a bandit 200xp, and I am pretty sure that the machines are so similar that your experience here will be my training session for when my bearings fail.
> 
> Regarding dodge bearings: they are real dirt-balls. Dodge routinely makes "OEM only" bearings for manufacturers that cannot be purchased except from the dealer. Then the dealer breaks it off on you because they know you cannot get it elsewhere. I have been down that road with Alamo equipment.


Dodge bearings are no good? I have one old one, new out in my shop what number or size bearings you need?


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## treeclimber101 (Dec 22, 2013)

pdqdl said:


> Not wishing misfortune on you, but I'm glad that you are posting this info. I have a bandit 200xp, and I am pretty sure that the machines are so similar that your experience here will be my training session for when my bearings fail.
> 
> Regarding dodge bearings: they are real dirt-balls. Dodge routinely makes "OEM only" bearings for manufacturers that cannot be purchased except from the dealer. Then the dealer breaks it off on you because they know you cannot get it elsewhere. I have been down that road with Alamo equipment.


I bought bearings from them on a few occasions , I only give dimensions and what I need , the salesman in my opinion couldn't give 2 ***** what it's used on


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## pdqdl (Dec 22, 2013)

Sure. I do that all the time...until I get some damned OEM bearing that costs too much just because the OEM wants it that way.


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## treeclimber101 (Dec 22, 2013)

pdqdl said:


> Sure. I do that all the time...until I get some damned OEM bearing that costs too much just because the OEM wants it that way.


I'm sorry that you have it that hard.


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## imagineero (Dec 23, 2013)

one of the bearings i got came in a dodge box, it's the self aligning one that's on the feed chute side of the disk. it was the much more expensive bearing. The other was just a standard bearing. there isn't room on the feed side to fit a standard bearing, that's why they used this smaller one. it's also partially cut down to be able to fit.

For anybody attempting this job, here are some tips in no particular order;

blow off your chipper before attempting the job and give it a wash down too. spray all the bolts with penetrating oil a few days beforehand, it'll make the job go easier.

You start by removing the drive belt cover, slacking off the engine and hydraulic pump and removing all the drive belts. Remove the discharge chute (it's heavy!) and the top half of the disk box. Moving the fuel tank makes removal of the drive pulley on the disk shaft a lot easier, so try to make sure you don't go filling the tank up just before attempting the job. The pulleys are taper lock; you break the lock by taking the three bolts out and inserting them into the 3 empty holes, then gradually tighten them up until it pops. The taper lock itself can be taken off the shaft by driving a large flathead screwdriver into the wedge cut in the taper with a mallet. You need to open it up quite a lot before it will slide off. Jack up the feed rollers and fit the safety locking pin. Remove the blades and anvil.

The bolts on the discharge side of the disk should come out easy. The bolts on the feed side are the ones exposed to weather and will often be sheared or seized. Try a small amount of heat on them in case someone used loctite. if you are lucky the previous assembly used anti sieze and they come out easy. Do not apply excess heat to the bolts, you will only harden them.

I lifted my disk out using ropes, pulleys and a block and tackle. Sling in the hole where the blades sit, rope tied to a very stout branch then down to a pulley on the sling for a 2:1, back up to a branch to another pulley, then into the tree to a third pulley, back down to the base of the tree for a redirect pulley, then attached to a 1 tonne chain block connected to a heavy truck. If you've got a crane, or a well built garage with beams that will hold the weight your set. an engine hoist won't lift high enough.

Once you've lifted the disk up enough you can either drive the chipper out or work on it suspended. Driving out is the safer option.

Getting the old bearings off will generally require cutting them off. It's an easy thing with an oxy, but don't try it unless you know how to cut bearings off, there is a trick to it and you don't want to have your first attempt on the very expensive shaft. If you don't have an oxy or have not tried cutting bearings out before then you can do it with a grinder and cutting disk. cut carefully and slowly, don't try to cut the whole thing in one go. Cut through the housing on both sides and break it off, then cut through the outer race on two sides and break that off, then very carefully cut the inner race. You can cut it almost all the way through then crack it with a cold chisel to not damage the shaft. The infeed side bearing has one or more spacer rings which align the disk. *do not cut the spacer rings* you will need them for reassembly later. They locate the disk in relation to the anvil. Without them the disk will be too close to the anvil. Keep the extended grease nipple hose off the discharge side bearing to use again on the new bearing.

The shaft will need cleaning up with emery tape, 80~120 grit is fine and you may need a mill bastard file to put a chamfer on the end. Wipe down with solvent, then test fit the new bearing. If it wont go on try twisting it as you slide it on. do not use more than your hands, no hammers here. If it won't go on, work the shaft with the emery tape again. Once you get a nice slide fit, apply anti seize and fit the infeed side bearing and tighten it up. Do not tighten the grub screw on the discharge side bearing yet. 

If you have infeed bearing bolts seized or sheared (you probably do) then your life is about to get less pleasant. If they've been seized a long time penetrating oil, heat and easy outs aren't going to cut the mustard. You also can't get a drill straight on to the hole, so heli coils require cutting the mounting plates out and re-welding them which is a major job and not to be undertaken lightly. Your best bet is to start drilling them out. The top 2 bolts are through-bolts and go into the disk housing, the bottom two are blind. If it's the top two, then you're in luck; they're easier to get out. Start from the inside, and centre punch the bolt. Take your time and centre punch it exactly in the centre. Now, using a brand new 1/8" bit in a right angle drill or adapter, very carefully line up your drill to be straight in all planes. Take your time here and get someone to watch/guide you if needed. If you get that first hole out of straight or off centre then your life will be in jeopardy! Drill it straight and take great care not to snap the bit off in the hole. Have a few brand new 1/8" bits on hand, it's tricky enough to drill a hole at a right angle as it is; no need to make it harder by using a blunt bit.

Apply penetrating lube, and step up to 1/4" and drill again. Use the lowest speed setting on your drill. A drill with a gearbox will be a great aid, or a cordless dewalt with a 3 speed box or similar. Apply lube and step up to 3/8, then 1/2". At that size, the bolt may well come out with use of a punch to turn it, particularly if it's not too badly seized. Do not drill a larger hole if you are off centre - you will damage the threads of the hole. If you have drilled off centre, or you've got to a 1/2" and the bolt still won't budge then you'll have to change to a dremel with stones and burrs. Go slow, use good lighting so you can see what's going on. Ream the bolt out further until you can collapse it. If you're losing patience, put the job aside and come back to it later. It's going to take time. 

Once you've got the bolts out, re-cut the holes with a tap. The size is 5/8"UNC. Get a bottoming tap if you can, it will make the blind holes easier to cut. Not many shops carry bottoming taps, so order ahead of time. You may also like to pick up all new bolts for the chute etc ahead of time, and washers to go with them. Yours are probably already flogged out. 

I chose replacement high tensile bolts that were oversized, so they had an unthreaded portion the same length as the thickness of the bearing mount holes. This makes the bolts act more as dowels which helps. I had to cut the thread to length and re cut the threads to make them tidy at the end, but it's worth the small extra effort. Get bolts in both bearings to line everything up, but tighten the infeed side bearing first, then check the anvil clearance. Finally, slide the discharge side bearing hard up, bolt it down tight, then tighten the grub screw. If you tap the grab screw with a light ball peen hammer you can tighten it just that little bit more.

Allow yourself two days, and have one other person to give you a hand. Be sure and pickup your bearings, bolts, anti seize, penetrating oil and a 5/8" tap well ahead of time. You can easily get the job done in a day if all goes well, but allow extra time especially if you live far from stores or if you'll be working on a weekend when stores are not open. 

Re-assembly is pretty straightforward. Use anti seize on everything. Replace worn bolts, and this is also a good time to lube up the rotating section of the discharge chute. If it's rusted out give it a rub back and apply grease. You may also like to replace your drive belts if they are worn/slipping. 

Job done, have a beer.


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## pdqdl (Dec 23, 2013)

treeclimber101 said:


> I'm sorry that you have it that hard.



Some years back I had a flail mower from Tiger. The ground roller bearings were specially ordered by Dodge, and Dodge absolutely refused to sell them to anyone but Tiger Equipment. They cost $450 each back in the early 90's, but there was nothing special about them except the dimensions could not be matched anywhere else.Sometimes we would break two per day. I discovered that Tiger had a previous bearing design that only cost $77 each, and we discovered that it lasted longer and was easier to install, too.

When you get a really good, hard screwing, you tend to remember it. I haven't forgotten either Tiger or Dodge; in fact, I have grudges saved up against Alamo, Gravely, and Toro too. Toro is the worst.


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## pdqdl (Dec 23, 2013)

imagineero said:


> one of the bearings i got came in a dodge box, it's the self aligning one that's on the feed chute side of the disk. ...



What the heck is a self-aligning bearing? Mine looks like a somewhat fancy 4-bolt flange bearing. It has a big round metal enclosure around it, but I don't see how that will help alignment.


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## imagineero (Dec 23, 2013)

http://www.skf.com/group/products/b...arings/self-aligning-ball-bearings/index.html


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## treeclimber101 (Dec 23, 2013)

It's a bearing that can adjust itself to shaft angle , basically it can swivel on the shaft . Pretty cool actually I've seen shafts ride on a bearing at a 45* angle


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## pdqdl (Dec 24, 2013)

Thank you gentlemen. 
I have been using those for many years now; I just have never heard the term before.


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## arborlicious (Jan 19, 2014)

I didn't expect to find such a wealth of information on replacing the bearings. Have the same problem. Just noticed this morning one of the bottom bolts on the infeed side was loose, very corroded too. So tomorrow will start preparing machine to remove the disc and replace the bearing. 

Steve


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## imagineero (Jan 19, 2014)

Welcome to arborist site


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## arborlicious (Jan 19, 2014)

imagineero said:


> Welcome to arborist site


Cheers. Are you still in the Blue Mountains? Might need the number of the thread repair specialist.


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## imagineero (Jan 19, 2014)

Will dig it up for you. I'm in Sydney now, work around Hornsby, Ryde, kuringgai mostly. The guy came out to annangrovw to give me a hand, think he was based somewhere near parramatta.


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## arborlicious (Jan 19, 2014)

imagineero said:


> Will dig it up for you. I'm in Sydney now, work around Hornsby, Ryde, kuringgai mostly. The guy came out to annangrovw to give me a hand, think he was based somewhere near parramatta.


Less pines more eucs then...


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## arborlicious (Jan 19, 2014)

Assuming you got the bearings from the team at Seven Hills? They quoted me same prices. I like that idea of using longer bolts with the unthreaded part at the head end to act as a locating dowel.

Steve


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## nk14zp (Jan 19, 2014)

What ever you do don't use chincom bearings on a chipper disc.


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## pdqdl (Jan 19, 2014)

It's pretty hard to avoid them anymore. Even the high dollar bearing houses will slip them in on you.


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## arborlicious (Jan 19, 2014)

Is it possible that this chipper still has the original bearings after 5,300 hours? Have only had it since about the 5,000 hour mark and it seems like a good time to replace the bearings if the disc has to come out for bearing bolt repair.


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## imagineero (Jan 20, 2014)

Yeah less pines, more Eucs. Wouldn't care if I never saw another granddaddy radiata for the rest of my life. I got my bearings at Marriott as you guessed, they had them in stock and I needed them urgently so it was a no brainer. The day the bolt sheared on my chipper I put it out of service - the blade was contacting the anvil under heavy load. I couldn't afford to have my machine off the road. If you've got time up your sleeve you could probably round up the exact same bearings for less money. The output side bearing is just a stock bearing which you can get at any bearing supply shop, it'll be a stocked item. Try CBC etc. The self aligning one might be a bit harder to track down, but not all that hard I guess. It needs to also be cut down a little to fit in. 

The guy's number is 0416 366 927. I think he charged me about $600, but it was a late call out on a sunday. $300~$400 would be a fair price for a regular callout. There are a few other guys providing the same service, so shop around. I think there are 3 guys doing it, and apparently they're all good. 

It's unlikely your chipper has original bearings. It seems the standard thing that happens is that the bolts are never loctited or anti seized, and they cop hell on the intake side. The top of the chute is a natural collector of crap, and then fills with water. Then whey someone swaps the bearings, they shear the bolts and don't bother replacing them. Dodgy as! My bearings were actually pretty good and could have been re used, but I had them already and plan on hanging on to the machine so I figured I might as well change them out. 

There aren't so many guys up in the mountains, we may have bumped into each other. 

Shaun


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## arborlicious (Jan 20, 2014)

Ha ha, there's always another megapine after the last one. I've only been working up here–Katoomba–solid for just over two years so don't mind working the pines – yet. It's getting rid of the chip and wood that's the problem – everyone wants gum. 

Thanks for the number - came up as 'Shannon - Billet Automotive in Bass Hill.' Will first try the drilling/punching method you detailed at the end of last year. The bearings themselves might be OK but seems like a good time to pull everything apart for a good servicing.

Yeah, there aren't many guys in the mountains, you must have moved down the hill before I started climbing in the clouds.

Thanks again for all the info. Will let you know how it goes.

Steve


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## arborlicious (Jan 21, 2014)

Progress update.

The disk is out - a forklift came in handy for lifting off the discharge chute, disk cover and the disk itself after struggling to remove the bearing bolts. Like I said earlier one of the bolts was already loose and badly corroded possibly held in place with grease with wood chip. Managed to get two of the other bolts out intact but one of the top ones sheared off. Maybe some heat would have helped. Time for a drill and extractors.

Did all this at the engineers place so he can sort out re-threading the bolt holes and possibly cutting off the bearings tomorrow. Which brings me to the bearings. There is a large amount of play in both bearing - I'm talking about 1/4" / 6mm. Should there be any play at all? Both bearing are still painted the original color of the chipper so unless the whole thing has been resprayed...seems like a good time to replace the bearings anyways.

Thanks to Shaun again for the detailed instructions near the start of this thread - especially regarding removal of the taper lock.

Gotta climb trees tomorrow luck everything stays on site so don't need the chipper.

Steve


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## imagineero (Jan 21, 2014)

Hi Steve,
Sent you my phone number in a private message in case you need a hand. You need a right angle drill to get at the bolts, but the top ones are easier for sure because you can get at them from both sides. The bottom two are blind. That amount of play is WAAAAAYYYYY too much. There should be zero play in the discharge side bearing, and in the intake side self aligning bearing rotation is ok but up/down or left/right play should be very little or none. You need a replacement for sure by the sound of it. If you ring CBC with the measurements of the discharge side bearing they'll give you a price on the phone and it'll be a stocked item. Worth giving them a try on the self aligner also, could save a tonne of cash. 

Make sure you save the spacer rings off the intake side when cutting off the self aligning bearing! You'll be screwed without them.


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## arborlicious (Jan 23, 2014)

Our engineer managed to get the intake bearing off without cutting but the other side required the oxy. Both bearings need replacing of course. CBC don't even stock the discharge side bearing anymore. They could make up the intake side with a cut down housing for $850+ so just decided to order the parts from Marriots - again not in stock but shipping from Melbourne.

Got a few other fixes to do as well. One of the bolts holding the engine down had sheared off so that corner was held in place by the tensioner only. The gate underneath the feed rollers is bent and in need of replacement - 6mm plate and some angle iron to stiffen should do the trick. Might as well drain and clean the hydraulic tank too.

Looks like I'll be spending Australia Day putting a chipper back together...


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## imagineero (Jan 24, 2014)

is that because it's imperial? Kinda surprised. Guess you'll just have to suck eggs mate! Be sure and get all your fasteners ready if you haven't already done so, and be generous with the anti seize. I'd be replacing all the smaller bolts holding the chute together too, go metric high tensile and use both split washers and nylock nuts. Closest fastener shop to you is boltmaster on borec rd penrith. Not sure if they're open tomorrow. 

You might be surprised how clean that hydraulic tank is. It's pretty much a closed loop, and even without filter changes it stays pretty clean. The oil in there is very likely just shitty old motor oil though, unless you've drained and refilled it yourself. The replacement hydraulic fluid isn't cheap (about $200~$250) and not many places will have enough of it in stock to fill the tank. Use the heavier 64 weight if replacing it. The filter is pretty easy to find. If you're cashed up, now is also a good time to do an oil and filter change, fuel filter change, and replace the drive belts ($$$) if they are worn. 

The fuel tank on the other hand, is often full of all kinds of crap!

Take some pics while you're there, we all love to see ;-)


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## arborlicious (Jan 25, 2014)

We're back in action - almost. Why use the heavy ISO 68 hydraulic oil?



Here's what it looked like with the disk out. The two closest mount holes are OK while the other two have sheared bolts. I reckon the bearing had been installed with both lower bolts bottomed out.


Cutting off the discharge side bearing.


The man with the oxy torch managed to get both sheared bolts out. He cut a hole from the inside to access and remove the remainder of the lower bolt. No drilling required thankfully.


Disk back in with the new bearings. Lower bolt on the RH shortened so it won't bottom out. LH lower bolt goes all the way through now. Lots of anti-sieze on the housing bolts. Red Loctite on the retaining bolt.



After a quick run in - no chipping. Need to install the blades, belt cover and two more bolts in the disk cover.

The discharge chute is easy to move after a good clean out and liberal application of grease. Also lifted up and cleaned under and diesel tank.


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## imagineero (Jan 26, 2014)

Your machine looks pretty good! You did well getting replacement allen head bolts also, I was only able to get hex head in high tensile in that size. You'll sleep well knowing the bearings are done. Sounds like you have a pretty decent engine. The only other common faults on this machine at high hours is the wear in the disk which you've already identified, the clutch which is reasonably priced and not all that difficult to replace, the coupler/shaft on the feed wheels and maybe the radiator. Look after the radiator, it's $$$$. The fan sucks stuff in, and some of the later model chippers have a fine screen on the outside. Many don't. Blowing it out after chipping helps.

Lots of hydro guys recommend the heavier grade oil for older/high hour applications. My understanding is that as the (vane) pump wears, the clearance between the tips of the vanes and the housing increases and the pressure drops off. I think the higher viscosity stuff is an attempt to increase the life of the pump. 

Setting the hydraulic pressure is an important part of keeping your machine running well. It isn't all that hard to do, but it requires a hydraulic pressure valve and a couple fitting which aren't cheap. Unfortunately all the pics from that thread are lost, but I can take some more and do another walk through for anyone who is interested.


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## arborlicious (Jan 27, 2014)

The machine does look OK after being degreased.

Put the blades back in today and adjusted the anvil. I hadn't taken the anvil out when replacing the disk bearings but when I did today could see where the blades had been hitting. Surprised that there wasn't a lot more damage to the blades. Have now set the gap to 2.5mm. 

Another thing, the pin for locking the disk now goes in easily. Could never get it in before so quite possibly the old bearings where worn out when I picked up this machine.

Will definitely be getting a hydraulic pressure value etc so that set/check the pressure. The hydraulic pump is the newest looking bit on this chipper (well it was until the bearings were replaced) so should be OK to stick with the medium weight hydraulic oil for now. I removed the 3 bolts holding the hydraulic tank earlier today and also removed the toolbox over the guard in order to clean out the years of compressed wood chip sandwiched between said tank and guard. 

Next week the disc will be welded to build up that worn out area behind the outer blades. Will take a look at the feed wheel coupler/shafts then too and weld some reinforcing on the torque arms.

If only I'd known all this stuff when buying the chipping in the first place. Might have got $2,000 off the price.


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## imagineero (Jan 27, 2014)

The pin not going in is one of the signs that your bearings are shot, the other one is the blades eating the anvil. My pin never used to line up either, goes right in perfectly now. I get better blade and anvil life than I used to, and my chip is more consistent now too. 

The factory specifies motor oil for the hydraulic setup I'm pretty sure. Setting/checking the pressure is worth doing every now and then. It takes about 15 minutes. 

Sounds like you're onto a good thing with your machine anyhow. doesn't look like you got the auto feed, but I rarely use it on mine anyhow. It's totally overrated. Did you get the 120 turbo perkins? It's a great engine and has loads of power though they often crack/leak at the turbo where the exhaust bolts up. It isn't really repairable, but it doesn't really affect performance either so not a big deal. Most of the problems people have with these machines are caused by not having sharp blades or a square well set anvil. Lots of guys complain about bits of logs getting stuck in between the rollers and disk, causing a log jam when you try to lift the rollers. With sharp blades and a well set square sharp angle everything gets sucked in, there are no bits of logs in the space. When I start getting logs not 'sucking through' I sharpen my blades. The other indicator is that thin stuff goes through stringy.

I think it's a great machine, the parts are readily available and reasonably priced for the most part. It's a robust unit and they get many many hours of good operation and are not too expensive to run. Coming from a bc1000XL it was night and day. 

Shaun


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## pdqdl (Jan 27, 2014)

Autofeed is not overrated, depending on the horsepower and the kind of wood that you throw in the chipper. Without the
auto feed, we would be spending a lot more time unplugging the chute.

I only have an 80 hp engine in my 200XP, and if we start throwing in 9 to 12 inch wood, the machine would grind to a halt without the auto feed. Since our auto feed works fine, we can throw in a big log at the limit of the machines throat and walk away in the full confidence that it will turn it into chips.

Since I knew I was going to have the auto feed, I figured I did not need the extra horsepower from the optional larger engine. I knew that most of the time the chipper would not be maxed out, and I couldn't see the need for a bigger engine roaring all the time to dispose of smaller branches.

I have had my machine since it was new in 1997, and the autofeed has always worked flawlessly. We often throttle the machine back to only 2000rpm when we are working with smaller branches and slow production of wood. With autofeed, we can reduce our fuel consumption and machine wear. 

Note: don't throttle it back too far; it is much easier to plug the chute when not turning as fast. I have turned off the autofeed and only run the machine at 1700 rpm...not a good idea. You will lose lots of time unplugging the chute when it gets blocked by some slowly thrown "stringers" and you have to dig 40lbs of wood chips out of the machine.


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## Pelorus (Jan 27, 2014)

pdqdl said:


> I only have an 80 hp engine in my 200XP, and if we start throwing in 9 to 12 inch wood, the machine would grind to a halt without the auto feed...



You could probably get by just fine without the auto feed if you have a flow divider to dial back the speed of the infeed rollers when feeding mongo stuff. Cheaper and simpler than auto feed, except for more heat build up.


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## pdqdl (Jan 27, 2014)

Slow down the feed-wheels and it would be making sawdust, not chips. Like you said, more heat...because it is destroying more wood.

What do you have against autofeed? Mine has worked flawlessly for 16 years. No repairs yet, and it lets us walk away from the chipper to go get the next big branch.


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## imagineero (Jan 27, 2014)

We probably work differently. We tend to stack then chip rather than chip as we go in most cases. Seems more efficient and a faster way to get the job done. I got the biggest engine i could because I'll generally have a big stack ready to go and 3 guys to feed it so the bottleneck is definitely the machine. 

With branches i don't need the autofeed. No matter how many branches the guys stuff in at once, the autofeed does not ever kick in on the 120. The only time it kicks in is in logs, where it's too sensitive. So i turn it off and run it manually. I need to be there to operate the lift anyhow, and unlike the machine i can see how big the log is and know how much of a bite or can take. So for me, the auto feed is redundant.

If I had the 80 and found it couldn't take large branches without bogging then I'd probably want the autofeed.


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## Pelorus (Jan 27, 2014)

pdqdl said:


> Slow down the feed-wheels and it would be making sawdust, not chips. Like you said, more heat...because it is destroying more wood.



The auto feed proportions the feed rate to engine RPM, so it "slows down" (start/stop/start/stop?) those feed wheels when chipping large dia. material. A flow divider slows down the rotation of those wheels. Same difference. The idea being to reduce to load on the engine. Either automatically with auto feed, or manually adjusting a flow divider when the situation calls for it. 
More heat results from restricting the flow of hydraulic fluid, nothing to do with "destroying more wood" or " making sawdust".


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## Pelorus (Jan 27, 2014)

Further to that feed rate thing, why do you suppose a three knife cutter head is sometimes offered as an option instead of a 2 knife head? I've heard 1. a faster feed rate is possible, (with > hp required) and/or 2. Better chip quality.


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## imagineero (Jan 27, 2014)

Maybe so's they can sell more knives? ;-)

No idea really. I've not seen a 3 blade setup before. Have seen a small chipper that had rotating knives though, similar to the green teeth. You got 3 goes at turning them. Also saw a serated blade once, guy said it worked well and lasted a long time but couldn't be sharpened


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## pdqdl (Jan 27, 2014)

Pelorus said:


> The auto feed proportions the feed rate to engine RPM, so it "slows down" (start/stop/start/stop?) those feed wheels when chipping large dia. material. A flow divider slows down the rotation of those wheels. Same difference. The idea being to reduce to load on the engine. Either automatically with auto feed, or manually adjusting a flow divider when the situation calls for it.
> More heat results from restricting the flow of hydraulic fluid, nothing to do with "destroying more wood" or " making sawdust".



Maybe on some machines, but not my Bandit 200xp. If the RPM drops below a certain point, the feed wheel stops. The wheels don't move, and no wood advances until the engine rises back up to the programmed upper limit. I can modify the set points at the digital tachometer on a permanent or temporary basis, too. It is all controlled by one wire to an electric solenoid-valve. There is no flow divider on the machine.

I have read that newer machines actually reverse the feed wheels during the recovery cycle, so that the disk speeds up quicker without dragging on the tip of the stopped log. Mine does not do that.


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## pdqdl (Jan 27, 2014)

imagineero said:


> We probably work differently. We tend to stack then chip rather than chip as we go in most cases. Seems more efficient and a faster way to get the job done. I got the biggest engine i could because I'll generally have a big stack ready to go and 3 guys to feed it so the bottleneck is definitely the machine.
> 
> With branches i don't need the autofeed. No matter how many branches the guys stuff in at once, the autofeed does not ever kick in on the 120. The only time it kicks in is in logs, where it's too sensitive. So i turn it off and run it manually. I need to be there to operate the lift anyhow, and unlike the machine i can see how big the log is and know how much of a bite or can take. So for me, the auto feed is redundant.
> 
> If I had the 80 and found it couldn't take large branches without bogging then I'd probably want the autofeed.



All good points, I can see your perspective. 

What are you calling a branch? Around here, it is common to get long straight oak branches that are too big for 3 men to drag and too big for my machine to chip. A bandit 200 has an upper limit of 12" (24.5 cm), and it had better not have any knots at that size, either.


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## imagineero (Jan 27, 2014)

That's interesting you can change the kickin point on the autofeed, how do you do that? I think mine kicks in way too early. My machine runs at 2465rpm and the autofeed seems to kick in about 2400. I think it ought to be about 2250.

A branch for me is up to about 8". 6" stuff flies through. With sharp blades and a well set squared off anvil my machine will swallow hardwood logs 12"x12" in 3' sections without needing to take a rest. The infeed is 12x19, and when we do trees bigger than this we rip the logs down to this size. We cup everything because I don't have a yard for firewood or anything. At 12x19 in hardwood the machine is not having a good time and drops down to taking little 3" bites.


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## arborlicious (Jan 27, 2014)

This particular machine does have autofeed. Had been looking around for few months for a second hand chipper and this seemed to be the best available at the time. Although i didn't know the bearings were in need of changing.

We put a few bigger logs through today, not quite 12" diameter stringybark - hardwood but it ate the 4-5' lengths in a few bites (autofeed) kicked in. 

Definitely producing better chipper now with new bearings. 

Nice machine to work on now that I know what I'm doing. After having worked on a mates BC1000xl this is much better.


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## pdqdl (Jan 28, 2014)

imagineero said:


> That's interesting you can change the kickin point on the autofeed, how do you do that? I think mine kicks in way too early. My machine runs at 2465rpm and the autofeed seems to kick in about 2400. I think it ought to be about 2250.
> 
> A branch for me is up to about 8". 6" stuff flies through. With sharp blades and a well set squared off anvil my machine will swallow hardwood logs 12"x12" in 3' sections without needing to take a rest. The infeed is 12x19, and when we do trees bigger than this we rip the logs down to this size. We cup everything because I don't have a yard for firewood or anything. At 12x19 in hardwood the machine is not having a good time and drops down to taking little 3" bites.



If you are chipping everything, you really need to invest in a "whole tree" chipper. I can't imaging dicing up all the logs to make chips with them...We would never be able to compete with all the hacks in our area.

Adjusting the autofeed settings is really pretty simple; I'll see if I can post the instruction set and maybe a picture. It only takes me about 1 minute to do the temporary change. I don't think Bandit doesn't publishes the instructions for the regulator/tach.

If I am just chipping a bunch of forsythia bushes (cane-type plants that are easy to chip), I will adjust the kick-in point to about 1900 rpm, and leave the minimum at 1650. If we happen to toss in a weed tree that actually slows the machine down...it's ok. Toss it in and go back to work.

Reducing the kick-in point, we can throttle it down, we don't have to listen to the monster screaming all the time, and it also doesn't blast chips as hard. Sometimes (like right now), my chipper truck is out of service and we tow it with an open top dump. MESSY! Slow the damn chipper down!


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## imagineero (Jan 29, 2014)

I was thinking I'd get a whole tree chipper with a grapple, right after I get a mini, a bigger truck, a bucket truck, a crane, a bigger crew, and some more work to pay for all that gear ;-) In the mean time I guess I'll just have to work with what I got. My truck has a 12m3 bin (about 15 cubic yards) and we can fit some medium size trees in there. A tree that will fill my whole truck generally won't need a lot of ripping in the barrel, maybe just the first 15' of trunk or so. If it's too big to fit in my truck in one load I sub my chipping out to a guy with a 30 cubic yard bin and an 1890. The infeed on that is 18x30 which isn't whole tree but it takes some good size logs. barrels up to 6' only need to get ripped into 6 chunks which isn't too bad. For really big trees I'll try to use a crane where I can and just put the barrels directly onto semi's and give them away to firewood guys. Saves a lot of ripping! 

Even on the bigger trees, it saves quite a bit of time/money having the 250xp and a 15 cube truck. I'll chip all the branches as we go and you can fit quite a lot of branches into 15 cubic yards. The barrel I'll put into the 1890. The two trucks together will take 45 cubic yards and we don't do many trees bigger than that. Few times a year we'll do a single take down that's 70cubic yards+, then it just turns into a 2 day job.


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## arborlicious (Jan 29, 2014)

You forgot about importing fuel by the gallon to run all of that new equipment you're about to buy ;>


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## imagineero (Jan 29, 2014)

at $4 a gallon?


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## Erwin (Sep 5, 2018)

Sorry to bring up such an old tread. Did not find anything newer. The write up Shaun did on page 1 is very informative. Thx

Over the past two years I gradually replace n repaired most other parts of my 250. Last week I finally get a chance to check the health of those 4 dreaded allen bolts on the infeed side. As I tried to test the torque on them, the head of the lower right one came right off just as I started to torque, cleanly from the shank. Obviously the shock force from the cutting wheel over the years sheared it off. The remaining 3 are still in good shape holding things together. I know I'll have to do the hard thing some day to address this, just not ready yet until at least winter time. I wonder if Shaun or Arborlicious or anyone else who went through this can answer the question I have concerning the broken bolt. Since mine is sheared off flush from the head, or the outer most side of the bearing housing, how can I lift the disk out of there assuming the rest 7 bolts will come out clean and easily? Looking into the machine, I don't see enough space to allow the disk to move axially toward the infeed side sufficiently to clear the broken bolt. Of course this is the best case of scenario, I might have more broken when I'm ready to do it. Am I missing anything? Do I maybe need to somehow cut the broken bolt in order to lift the disk? Please enlighten me. Thank you! Also, from now on, I'll start getting parts for the job. Did anyone find any alternative vendors for the expensive bearings?


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## arborlicious (Sep 9, 2018)

Hi Erwin,

Don't have that old 250XP anymore so I'm just going off the top of my head and looking at the old pictures in this thread. 

Given that you'll be replacing the bearing and housing it might be possible to get in there with an oxy torch and cut the bearing housing to clear the broken bolt.

I did not find alternative vendor for bearings at the time - needed them in a hurry. The one on the engine side has the housing machined so if you might be able to start with standard off the shelf bearings and modify to suit.

Steve


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## Erwin (Sep 10, 2018)

Steve. Thx for taking time to reply. Yes. I agree that a oxy torch might b my only option. If I can preserve the part of broken bolt sticking out of the hole I’ll make it much easier to work with. Erwin


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## Erwin (Sep 10, 2018)

for people who need to replace the disk bearings and my future reference when my time comes, the price for the bearings came down quite nicely. They used to be over 1300 for a pair, now about half of that. Fairbankequipment.com, louisvilletractor.com and allbanditparts.com have them for that price. If u want to further save, cut the front bearing by ur self. it does not look hard to do to save another 200. Good luck. Erwin


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## pdqdl (Sep 10, 2018)

I have never priced new bearings, but mine are 21 years old. Probably going to become an issue in the near future.

Is that what you are paying for the bearings, or for the service to install + parts? I would think the bearings would only be $100 each or less. Much more if they are made by Dodge.


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## Erwin (Jan 29, 2019)

no, that the price for just the parts. Now I'm planning to do it in 2 weeks. trying to do more readings and gather all information I can get, order the parts and start shooting PB Blaster on the bolts daily. The best price I found so far for the larger one on the pulley side (900-1900-34) is $185, and feed side one (900-1900-33) $385. If anyone found better pricing for them, Please share. If I can get it from someone selling dodge bearings, I have the means to do the cutting myself. Thx


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