# Max tree diameter cut vs bar length?



## Hellbent

I figured this is more of a technique question so it should go here...

What are the "proper guidelines" for how large a diameter tree you can fell / cut vs The bar length of your saw? 

What i'm asking is a 30" bar should be able to fell a 60" diameter tree cutting one side and then reposistioning yourself 180 degrees and resuming the original cut in the same direction right? My buddy says that a 30" bar is only supposed to cut up to a 30" tree diameter. That can't possibly be true, especially the guys that work in big timber like the PNW and the eastern shore of Alaska.


My cuttin buddy and i are trying to solve this and i figured i kneed to call for professional backup.

Thanks, Hellbent


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## ATH

Very common practice to cut trees longer than bar length though.

You can actually cut more than twice the bar length (I have not done it, but have seen it done). Come in from either side to cut the wedge (you are not at full diameter of tree...so often can do that with 2 cuts). Plunge into the wedge opening to cut out center or tree. Come in from sides and back leaving a hinge.


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## ATH




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## fishinfiend

I was always told that if you have a 20 in bar you could take a 40 in tree. I am from NE WI.

Either way this is what is in the Stihl manual:

Either do a section cut which is start on one side of the tree and fan the saw around the tree but dont cut off the hinge. 

Or do a plunge cut which is when you shove the nose of the saw into the tree and start working the saw back and forth making the opening bigger and bigger than before. 

P.S. I was paraphrasing the Stihl manual if you want to know exactly how to do it either of those ways go to Stihls website and read it yourself.


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## windthrown

Proper guideline? Whatever works. Here in the west long bars are far more common, back east short bars are more common. I like to make cuts from one side, so use longer bars if possible. O/w I flip around and cut from both sides. I have felled 48 inch DBH trees with a 25 inch bar.


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## sgreanbeans

U want to keep it under the total width. 30" bar, 59" tree......or less. If you go too big, you will have a little chunk of holding wood right in the middle and that thing will make u loose your mind!


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## Pelorus

A long bar is more spendy, heavier, may not oil as well, and there are a lot more teeth to sharpen after you hit that buried nail you didn't see. I rarely use over a 20" bar.


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## sgreanbeans

Me, I like to climb with the 066 and a 36" bar, nice and small, nimble.


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## Pelorus

Do your knuckles drag on the ground when walking or standing upright?


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## woodchuck357

Tree diameter about 3 times the bar length is the largest that can be taken down easily. Deep open notch the length of the bar. Bore into the notch to the length of the bar. Starting behind the hinge bore in and cut around almost to the center of the back side. Bore in behind the hinge on the other side and cut around toward the back to finish the felling cut.


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## woodchuck357

sgreanbeans said:


> Me, I like to climb with the 066 and a 36" bar, nice and small, nimble.


Can't say I liked it, but in my younger days I climbed with a 80 cc mac with a 3 foot bar more than a few times.


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## beastmaster

Nothing I hate more then having to double cut a big tree on spikes, but then again it may beat pulling a 088 up and having that hanging from your saddle. Back in my younger days I liked to limb big pines with a O64 stihl with a 36in bar, it gave me a lot of reach and the speed and power to make them do tricks. I use a 201T with a 14 in bar these days, and will double cut all day 28 in pieces. A few times Ive used a 084 with a long bar and have to double cut a 70 in piece while on spikes, nothin nice. That was before compression releases too.


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## beastmaster

woodchuck357 said:


> Can't say I liked it, but in my younger days I climbed with a 80 cc mac with a 3 foot bar more than a few times.


Man those old macs were heavy basterds too. Wish I still had one of those old big macs, I'd hang it on the wall in the living room.


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## Hellbent

Excellent info! I really appreciate the details on the techniques as well! I knew people did it all the time but I guess I couldn't explain it near as good as you guys. 

Thanks, Hellbent


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## Hellbent

ATH said:


>




Great video! It always amazes me to see truly big trees! When we start talking "big" trees we mean >30" in Kansas. Perspective is a funny thing...


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## jwp

I have seen where very large trees were felled with an axe. So I would think that a saw could be used to nibble away at the tree until it fell. I wouldn't want to do it that way.


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## Nemus Talea

Good illustrations here.
http://www.worksafebc.com/publicati.../assets/pdf/bc_faller_training_standard_2.pdf


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## sgreanbeans

Hellbent said:


> Great video! It always amazes me to see truly big trees! When we start talking "big" trees we mean >30" in Kansas. Perspective is a funny thing...


We have some monsters here, not huge in height, but some massive wood. Thought I had seen big trees, then I went to the Sequoia Kings National Park in Cali........... holy chit!


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## Guran

In extreme situations it's possible to cut even more than twice your bar lenght.
A picture of how that is done below....


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## ATH

I guess that proves a picture is worth a thousand words! _Almost_ exactly what I tried to explain in my first reply. Only thing I would do different is leave a little wood in the back and make that the final cut. If that tree starts to go before you get the second cut all the way to the hinge it will swing to the left. If, instead, you make both side cuts leaving a little wood in the back (how much depends on lean of tree and wind speed/direction) tou can cut the back piece off and it will go true to the hinge.


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## Guran

Thats good advice ATH.
In the second picture you will see that. Before you cut that last part (dark brown) you should put in a wedge.
After that you can take the remaing cut.


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## woodchuck357

Good diagram, but the notch could be deeper and ATH is right cut both sides first and the back last. And it is used often, not in extreme situations. Wedges are placed before the last back bit is cut.


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## Hellbent

ATH said:


> I guess that proves a picture is worth a thousand words! _Almost_ exactly what I tried to explain in my first reply.



NOW that clear things up! ATH you did a great job of explaining it but seeing the picture made it makes sense.

Sure reminds me to present info in a variety of ways for my students in shop class.

I'm famous for all my "graffitti" drawings in soapstone and chalk over everything in the shop. One time the big boss lady (superintendent) of our school district came in for a surprise visit and asked coarsely why i wasn't watching the kids more closely because they were drawing on everything. I told her it was because i was watching them weld instead and i was the one doing the drawing. I explained what one of the drawings represented and she said "neat, well keep up the good work" and shot out of there before she got any sparks on her pants suit!


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## Guran

woodchuck357 said:


> Good diagram, but the notch could be deeper and ATH is right cut both sides first and the back last. And it is used often, not in extreme situations. Wedges are placed before the last back bit is cut.


 Yep, I will do that also, when I have leaner.


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## mdodson60

Hellbent said:


> I figured this is more of a technique question so it should go here...
> 
> What are the "proper guidelines" for how large a diameter tree you can fell / cut vs The bar length of your saw?
> 
> What i'm asking is a 30" bar should be able to fell a 60" diameter tree cutting one side and then reposistioning yourself 180 degrees and resuming the original cut in the same direction right? My buddy says that a 30" bar is only supposed to cut up to a 30" tree diameter. That can't possibly be true, especially the guys that work in big timber like the PNW and the eastern shore of Alaska.
> 
> 
> My cuttin buddy and i are trying to solve this and i figured i kneed to call for professional backup.
> 
> Thanks, Hellbent


A 30" bar should be ok to cut a diameter of 58". Keeping in mind for safe cutting you subtract 2 inches from your bar length. So your 30 inch only cuts 28 inches with minimal risk of kickback.


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## pdqdl

Hellbent said:


> I figured this is more of a technique question so it should go here...
> 
> What are the "proper guidelines" for how large a diameter tree you can fell / cut vs The bar length of your saw?
> 
> What i'm asking is a 30" bar should be able to fell a 60" diameter tree cutting one side and then reposistioning yourself 180 degrees and resuming the original cut in the same direction right? My buddy says that a 30" bar is only supposed to cut up to a 30" tree diameter. That can't possibly be true, especially the guys that work in big timber like the PNW and the eastern shore of Alaska.
> 
> 
> My cuttin buddy and i are trying to solve this and i figured i kneed to call for professional backup.
> 
> Thanks, Hellbent



It's not about the length of the bar. What counts is the expertise of the cutter and the amount of work they are willing to invest.

Here is my formula:

Bar length should always be greater than the tree diameter: This is for newbies that don't know how to match their cuts, experienced operators that are working with a dull saw, and any expert that really hasn't the patience to have his crew watching and waiting. Maybe old timers that don't have the strength to work so hard on felling the tree.
Bar length should at least be greater than 1/2 the diameter of the tree: experienced users with a sharp saw that cuts straight, newbies that don't care how much time they waste, or experts that don't want to carry that god-awful heavy saw around all day. Lazy, weak, or idiot cutters should avoid this option.
Bar length isn't going to come close to meeting the halfway point: this is for experts on big timber, experienced users that don't happen to have a saw big enough, but still need to get that tree down, and idiots and newbies that don't understand how much risk they are taking and how much time they are wasting. Lazy, weak, or idiot cutters should not use this option.
Bottom line: use what you got to the best of your abilities. If you know you have the wrong equipment, then you should be able to predict your outcome according to the list I described above. Men were cutting down trees of all sizes with nothing but axes, long before saws were invented. Any chainsaw that makes wood chips is able to cut down any tree, given enough time and effort. 

I've seen guys take out 36" diameter trees with a 16" Homelite, but it seldom leaves a stump that the experts admire. My very first saw was a McCulloch 10-10s with an 18" bar. I took out a LOT of big trees with it, and I never knew what I was missing out on until I bought my 3120 Husqvarna with a 50" bar. Boy howdy! That saw turned tyrant cottonwood trees into whimpering victims. Still... I've had some stumps that took some creativity to match up the cuts, and not just a few that had to be sliced and diced because I couldn't keep the chain sharp and cutting straight.


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