# hard hat question?



## Nate66n1 (Oct 5, 2013)

Hi all, figure I'd ask here first. I recently picked up a McDonald aluminum hard hat and I was wondering if there's any place I can get a new or aftermarket suspension system for it. I seen baileys had the four point systems but this is a six point. All that really bad on it is the leather that fits around your head. Any input would be greatly appreciated, thanks Nate


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## bitzer (Oct 5, 2013)

I think Madsen's has them. They have a website with a phone number.


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## madhatte (Oct 5, 2013)

The old leather 6-point suspension has been OOP for some time. You may have to build your own.


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## Nate66n1 (Oct 5, 2013)

madhatte said:


> The old leather 6-point suspension has been OOP for some time. You may have to build your own.



Yea I kinda figured after searching the web for a while. Oh well, ain't nothin duck tape can't fix


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## Gologit (Oct 5, 2013)

Nate66n1 said:


> Yea I kinda figured after searching the web for a while. Oh well, ain't nothin duck tape can't fix



You might send a PM to Slowp. She rebuilt a six point suspension and I hear it turned out pretty good.


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## Nate66n1 (Oct 5, 2013)

Will do


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## 056 kid (Oct 5, 2013)

I have an almost new looking mac T 6pt in the mail. Im sure the suspension will be a little less than fresh. To hell with chinese skull crushers though. I had to get some staples after being torpedoed. The chity thin aluminum gave before the suspension did what it was supposed to, (only one clip broke) but that tin can aluminum dug right in, it didn't have any dents to weaken it either . I can take 1 knuckle and make a big dent in one of those POS things. Ansi must be on the wine...


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## Nate66n1 (Oct 6, 2013)

Yea everything on mine is in great shape except for the leather head band. I'm thinking I can make something work to fix er up.


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## northmanlogging (Oct 6, 2013)

I modified one using the replacement 4 point suspension, involved rivets... if this place is still working I'll try to post some pics later tonight, got to get to werk...


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## northmanlogging (Oct 6, 2013)

here ya go, used the #9 leather rivets you find at horse and tack type shops...


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## Nate66n1 (Oct 9, 2013)

That looks like a idea if I can't figure somethin out


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## paccity (Oct 9, 2013)

personally a 6 point mac should be put the way it was designed. lot's of 4 point macs around to use. someone handy at sewing should be able to make a proper suspension for it. not as many 6ers around .


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## Gologit (Oct 9, 2013)

paccity said:


> personally a 6 point mac should be put the way it was designed. lot's of 4 point macs around to use. someone handy at sewing should be able to make a proper suspension for it. not as many 6ers around .



I agree.


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## H 2 H (Oct 9, 2013)

Nice avatar Nate :msp_w00t:


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## Nate66n1 (Oct 9, 2013)

H 2 H said:


> Nice avatar Nate :msp_w00t:



Thanks, and yes that's me behind the wheel. I think that's what I'll try to do first is repair the headband then revert to the other options mentioned above.


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## Nate66n1 (Oct 9, 2013)

How do I upload photos now that the toolbar is missing? Id like to upload a picture of it so all you's can give me a better direction. Nevermind I think I got it haha


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## northmanlogging (Oct 9, 2013)

Hel that one is in great shape, most of the ones I've found are missing the liner altogether, the clips are the hardest part, the rest should be totally rebuildable, all the stuff is available at craft stores, even the super thin leather they used on the old liners

The trick is either swallowing your mannish pride and setting foot in a fabric store or finding a willing woman to do it for you, and no you can't call mom for this one:msp_w00t:


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## Nate66n1 (Oct 9, 2013)

northmanlogging said:


> Hel that one is in great shape, most of the ones I've found are missing the liner altogether, the clips are the hardest part, the rest should be totally rebuildable, all the stuff is available at craft stores, even the super thin leather they used on the old liners
> 
> The trick is either swallowing your mannish pride and setting foot in a fabric store or finding a willing woman to do it for you, and no you can't call mom for this one:msp_w00t:



I know I might sound like a dumba$$ for asking this but the leather piece that is tore, is that just the liner or is that the main structure of the headband? I know there's a pretty stiff price of somethin inside the leather but I'm not familiar with these hats quite yet. I know I can't ask for moms help but how about grandma


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## northmanlogging (Oct 10, 2013)

I'm thinking the leather is just there to soak up sweat.

However if the leather is rotted, then the cloth backing probably isn't to far behind. Most of those older 6 points have cotton liners, cotton when it rots doesn't always change color it just shreds when you really wanted to count on it, so you might want to think about changing the whole harness out.

I do like the idea of some burly stinky logger joining a quilting bee, and hitting on a bunch of grandmas trying to convince one of them to fix his cute little hat...:biggrin:


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## Nate66n1 (Oct 10, 2013)

I made up my mind im going to redo the whole headband part and leave all the other stuff alone. Do you think there is a sewingsite out there somewhere? Hahaha!


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## slowp (Oct 10, 2013)

Nate66n1 said:


> I made up my mind im going to redo the whole headband part and leave all the other stuff alone. Do you think there is a sewingsite out there somewhere? Hahaha!



There are these things made out of paper called books. You can find them in fabric stores. 

The leather will be too heavy for a sewing machine. Even my old treadle couldn't sew the leather. Sew, (pun) I would suggest going to a craft, fabric or maybe an outdoor store and purchasing an awl, or ready stitcher or some sort of name like that. It will come with a thick, waxed thread which is almost string like, a bobbin, and needle. It will have a wooden handle on it where the bobbin goes in. You thread it, push the needle through the leather, grab the thread and pull it through, and then repeat and do a knot, which is sure to be somewhere on the internet. Repeat. I've got an old pack that I made and that stitching is still holding up well. If your fingers get sore or can't pull the thread, a pair of needle nose pliars will do the trick.

Note: If you are planning on wearing this hat to work, it most likely will not meet the ANSI and OSHA and whatever else your state has. You might get a fine. But, it will be fine to wear at a GTG or put "on display".

Smokejumpers know how to sew. If you need new strap material, I ordered it from *The Rainshed* in Corvallis, OR. They are on the internet, and have mass quantities of outdoor fabrics, fleece, straps and hardware.


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## madhatte (Oct 10, 2013)

I picked this one up not too long ago. It's the nicest old 6-pointer I've found yet. I doubt it ever got used. Twenny bones at an antique shop.


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## paccity (Oct 10, 2013)

madhatte said:


> I picked this one up not too long ago. It's the nicest old 6-pointer I've found yet. I doubt it ever got used. Twenny bones at an antique shop.



nice hat, hatte.


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## madhatte (Oct 10, 2013)

Why thank yez.


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## Nate66n1 (Oct 10, 2013)

Im not planning on using it for work, just for cuttin around friends land. I also thought it would accent my saws nicely in the shed. I do have a stupid plastic hard hat but it just dont feel right lol.


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## Nate66n1 (Oct 10, 2013)

madhatte said:


> I picked this one up not too long ago. It's the nicest old 6-pointer I've found yet. I doubt it ever got used. Twenny bones at an antique shop.



Nice score, twenty bones is what I gave for mine


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## northmanlogging (Oct 10, 2013)

I just paid too much for a pristine 4pt Mac T... with original liner, which I then rattle canned blue and broke the liner on... but it fits now and my old jackson is about done for...


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## Gologit (Oct 10, 2013)

Nate66n1 said:


> Im not planning on using it for work, just for cuttin around friends land. I also thought it would accent my saws nicely in the shed. I do have a stupid plastic hard hat but it just dont feel right lol.






Go ahead and wear that tin hat. They hold up real well. This one is only about 30 years old and it still looks like new. Well, maybe not new...but close.


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## paccity (Oct 10, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Go ahead and wear that tin hat. They hold up real well. This one is only about 30 years old and it still looks like new. Well, maybe not new...but close.



still a ledgit lid. yup.


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## Gologit (Oct 10, 2013)

paccity said:


> still a ledgit lid. yup.



Yup. But a word of caution here...if a certain AS member, and we won't mention her name, sends you a tin hat it might show up looking like this:

http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv277/gologit/P5260176.jpg


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## Nate66n1 (Oct 10, 2013)

Anyone know why these hats are not "safe" enough? Those damn plastic hats seem like you might as well just put some Tupperware on your head


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## slowp (Oct 10, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Yup. But a word of caution here...if a certain AS member, and we won't mention her name, sends you a tin hat it might show up looking like this:
> 
> http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv277/gologit/P5260176.jpg



Now that, is a beautiful tin hat.


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## Gologit (Oct 10, 2013)

slowp said:


> Now that, is a beautiful tin hat.



Beauty, especially in that case, is most definitely in the eye of the beholder.


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## slowp (Oct 10, 2013)

Nate66n1 said:


> Anyone know why these hats are not "safe" enough? Those damn plastic hats seem like you might as well just put some Tupperware on your head



My former employer ordered us to only wear plastic like twenty years ago. The reason for it at the time was that plastic was safer around powerlines, which didn't really make sense since most of us did not work around any powerlines. Then I heard it was because the metal hats get dented when tossed in the back of the pickup and in our fair state and others, that can cause fines to be leveled by the safety people. Since our district ranger decided everybody must have Bullard fire hats, it sure wasn't an economic decision.

The tin hats were declared to be the safest, by the Game of Logging guy. They take the impact and dent. 
Plastic hats will take impact and split, but that's part of the design. It is the suspension that slows things down and lessens the impact...we hope.
Plastic will degrade if exposed to sun so it has to be replaced. Normal plastic hardhats are inexpensive so that shouldn't be a problem. 
That's all I know. Both types can be flung off whilst having a rigging fit but the tin hats make more of a racket. My Mac T has clips (which have been declared unsafe) to hold a headlamp on and I can make obnoxious noise/music by flicking the clips. Tin hats can be written on with a pencil, erased, and used over. I used to keep tree measurements, phone numbers, and log scale on my hat when I didn't have paper handy. You have to put duck tape or something on your plastic hat if doing that. 

Enough??


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## Nate66n1 (Oct 11, 2013)

Excellent info, thanks for the info slowp.


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## paccity (Oct 11, 2013)




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## madhatte (Oct 11, 2013)

The "dent versus crack" argument is still pretty hot and contentious, as I understand it. I'm certainly a fan of aluminum, mainly because I can see the damage. Plastic wants repaired after any hit at all, since internal flaws will be invisible. I'd much rather not throw away something that's perfectly good, and I'd much rather be able to tell when it isn't any more. However, if you work anywhere that the OSHA guy might come and look at the date on your hat, you damn well better be in compliance. My fire helmet certainly is.

Oh, also, I remember back in the day working for Weyerhaeuser when they went to all-plastic. The reasoning behind this, as I recall, was indeed electrical, but not for the reasons you'd expect. Turns out, they wanted one rule for all employees, which included folks working in mills and cardboard factories and such who could expect to be working around electricity regularly. That rule made it out to the woods in order to preemptively shut down any "it's not fair" complaints from indoors. (this was 1995, I think)


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## northmanlogging (Oct 11, 2013)

Nate66n1 said:


> Anyone know why these hats are not "safe" enough? Those damn plastic hats seem like you might as well just put some Tupperware on your head



What I've been told is that the tin hats don't hold up to puncture... thats why the new skull buckets have that extra plate in the top.

Having said that I've only heard of one tin hat get punctured and that was with a bull block shoving some other dudes skull through it... first dude died second dude is dingy and has bits of wire holding his face together but far as I know he's still around.

Last I heard they had his hat at the UW on display for some reason...


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## slowp (Oct 11, 2013)

That was the reason for our ranger's order that everybody here shall have the Bullards. That way, there would be no "borrowing" of somebody else's hat when called to go to a fire. 

Bullards are quite heavy. After losing mine down the hill in an acrobatic maneuver, the logger I was walking with caught it and then started exclaiming about how heavy it was, and didn't I have a sore neck, with a few %$# thrown in over his amazement. It usually stayed on during such acrobatics, except for when I switched to a new suspension. Then it would not stay on so I switched back. 

That brings up another point. All heads do not match all suspensions.


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## Nate66n1 (Oct 11, 2013)

So do all the helmets have to be plastic now for yous or are certain metal hats deemed "safe" enough to wear? I'm just curious.


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## madhatte (Oct 11, 2013)

The old "Mac T" tin hats (both 4-point and 6-point) are no longer legal according to ANSI certifications. The current "Skull Bucket" tin hats are OK, so long as their manufacture date, stamped on the brim, is less than 5 years ago. Likewise, plastic hats expire in 5 years.


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## 056 kid (Oct 11, 2013)

Skull buckets are pieces of ####tt. Please believe me when I say this. That extra piece of tin does nothing more than turn into a sharp edge to aid in splitting scalps... The plastic hats are safer even though I much prefer a tin hat. 
What's a bullard look like?


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## slowp (Oct 11, 2013)

View attachment 317362


Hmmm the picture posting doesn't work right now. The Bullard is invisible!


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## Nate66n1 (Oct 11, 2013)

Thanks to all you that shared some knowledge with me. That's why I like reading on this site everyday


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## mdavlee (Oct 11, 2013)

The Msa and fiber metal full brim hats are probably lighter than Bullard. I like the fiber metal suspension much better. I have worn both and the plastic fiber metal is a tad lighter if I remember right. 

http://www.esafetysupplies.com/Fibre-Metal-SUPEREIGHT-Full-Brim-Hard-Hat.html

http://www.esafetysupplies.com/MSA-Skullgard-Hard-Hat.html?gclid=CJHZoteikLoCFS3hQgod8zMAnQ


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## Philbert (Oct 11, 2013)

It is the suspension that protects you from impact, and it is designed to fail. It is also why they don't like stuffing packs of cigarettes up there. 

Metal hats can be made if the manufacturers get them to pass the tests. There are different sub categories for electrical protection, which they would not be good for. You guys might also like the Kevlar versions (but not the price). I have seen plastic full brim helmets for under $10 and construction style head hats on sale for under $5. 

That 5 year is advisory - though some may enforce it differently. It is supposed to be 5 years after put into full time service (due to UV effects) not date of manufacture (which is easier to check). 3M now makes helmets with UV indicators on them for this reason. 

Philbert


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## madhatte (Oct 12, 2013)

Philbert said:


> It is supposed to be 5 years after put into full time service (due to UV effects) not date of manufacture (which is easier to check). 3M now makes helmets with UV indicators on them for this reason.



See, that makes more sense. 

(I still favor dents over dumb luck)


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## northmanlogging (Oct 12, 2013)

Its incredibly unlikely that osha is going to be checking to see if I'm legal anytime soon, so I'll stick with my new/old Mac T.


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## slowp (Oct 12, 2013)

The plastic on my over the hill hat is still flexible, but it is out of date. I think the 5 year limit was decided in a place where the sun shines. 
Let's see if the Bullard is still invisible.

Yes, it still is. Oh well, it is a big, heavy, orange with teal tree marking paint on it, dirty suspensioned, full brim hard hat. Not a helmet, a hard hat.


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## OlympicYJ (Nov 8, 2013)

I also heard the sweatbands on the Bullard if not taken out will give you a rash or something like that. Anyone have any light to shed on that? I'm just beatin the skullbucket. Yeah mac Ts are nicer but I haven't ran across one yet. Wait a min the old man may have a mac t in the shop. I'm checking over christmas! lol

I have a brand new skullbucket sitting in the house for when the old one is declared illegal or some such nonsense. My buddy's girlfriend gave him her grandpas old mac t. Great shape and still had his bushel written on it.


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## madhatte (Nov 9, 2013)

I got a new sweatband a couple of years ago for my Bullard fire helmet and it made things way more comfy. I wish I knew the brand but it was in the shop and who knows where it came from or when. I can confirm that the stock sweatband is crappy and uncomfortable but I have yet to see or experience an actual rash.


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## slowp (Nov 9, 2013)

No rash after 5 years of wearing the old Bullard style without the knob. The difficult click style stayed on through quite a few acrobatics. The knob style did not and I got a bloody nose from tripping, hat flying off, and faceplanting ONTO hardhat. Nobody was around to see this dangerous maneuver.


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## SliverPicker (Dec 2, 2013)

A buddy of mine made a new suspension out of some flat nylon webbing and an old belt (the type that holds your holster). It works very well.

The hard part with the 6-point suspensions is finding the clips that hold it to the hard hat. I looked for two weeks on the internet for a set one time with no luck. If you have the clips all you need is to make a new suspension.


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## zogger (Dec 3, 2013)

The husky combo helmet locks on nice with the ear muffs folded down over your ears. Stays in place well. Ya, doesn't look like a doughboy hat, but it is a comfy helmet. It is the *only* set of muffs I ever tried that fit over my eyeglasses and didn't pinch, and the sound deadening is nice, blocks saw sound, but regular conversational tones come through pretty good.


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## SliverPicker (Dec 4, 2013)

Its all personal, but I just can't get used to having all that stuff attached to my head. That shield in front of my face drives me bonkers. Give a hard hat and $5 pair of safety glasses and some rubber ear plugs. I like the rubber ear plugs because I can still hear when things are going wrong. The foam plugs and ear muffs block too much sound. This is not any criticism of any thing you said zogger, it just my 2/100 of a dollar (and worth every penny).


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## zogger (Dec 4, 2013)

SliverPicker said:


> Its all personal, but I just can't get used to having all that stuff attached to my head. That shield in front of my face drives me bonkers. Give a hard hat and $5 pair of safety glasses and some rubber ear plugs. I like the rubber ear plugs because I can still hear when things are going wrong. The foam plugs and ear muffs block too much sound. This is not any criticism of any thing you said zogger, it just my 2/100 of a dollar (and worth every penny).



It took me a grand total of one time to get used to it when I got nailed with an unseen spring branch in the kisser.

I think it is like chaps, guys say they are uncomfortable and can't stand them until that rrip to the emergency room and thousand$ later..they get used to it. Safety boots, etc, same deal. To each their own, I tend to like the modern designs over the older, better ergo and better protection, IMO.


Caulks..I don't have to walk huge logs a lot, but I can def see where they come in handy if you had to daily, after a few slips on wet logs before.


As to the earmuffs versus foam plugs, etc, I have tried a variety for both engine running and target shooting, these are the best as per performance and most comfortable I have used, especially over my prescription lenses/glasses, which are factory safety glasses to begin with.


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## SliverPicker (Dec 4, 2013)

I wear my oil saturated chaps, but I definitely need to find an alternative (like the jeans with chap pads inside). I can't tell you how many times I've been snagged up solid in brush by the straps on my chaps. Or have had to high-step over some obstacle and gotten the side lugs on my boots snagged on the edge of my chaps. I am afraid that one day I am going to have to run for my life, but will be hung up by my safety gear. 

Has anyone tried the Labonville pants/chaps? They don't make my size, but I'm still curious.


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## zogger (Dec 4, 2013)

SliverPicker said:


> I wear my oil saturated chaps, but I definitely need to find an alternative (like the jeans with chap pads inside). I can't tell you how many times I've been snagged up solid in brush by the straps on my chaps. Or have had to high-step over some obstacle and gotten the side lugs on my boots snagged on the edge of my chaps. I am afraid that one day I am going to have to run for my life, but will be hung up by my safety gear.
> 
> Has anyone tried the Labonville pants/chaps? They don't make my size, but I'm still curious.



Well, I'll chime in again, I went with the husky full pants over chaps. I didn't like the idea of those snags like you put it. Went over 3 decades without much in the way of PPE, decided to quit wqhile I was ahead and go get the whole rig and be done with it at once.. I am wearing pants anyway when I go out to cut..so I ordered the cuttin'pants. I wear boots..so I got the cuttin' boots.

Ya, it can get hot in the summer..I just deal with it, same as you have to deal with cold, etc. If I lived in el norte and was cuttin, most likely look for heated handle saws. I remember way way back when I lived up north wishing for heated handles..down here, never gets all that bad. Single digits is extremely cold for here, teens and 20s is more like it in the winter, ie, not that bad at all.


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## EricNY (Dec 4, 2013)

SliverPicker said:


> Has anyone tried the Labonville pants/chaps? They don't make my size, but I'm still curious.



I have, the green summer type atleast, haven't tried the winter variation. So far they've been durable and comfortable. Had to buy a size up though as I thought they ran small. Pads are held in by 2 snaps and then through a sleeve at knee level, not all too snug which leads me to believe they would just be pulled aside by a moving chain. I don't like chaps either. Or visors, face shields, and ear muffs. I wear a tin hat and ear plugs and every now and then safety glasses 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2


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## mdavlee (Dec 4, 2013)

EricNY said:


> I have, the green summer type atleast, haven't tried the winter variation. So far they've been durable and comfortable. Had to buy a size up though as I thought they ran small. Pads are held in by 2 snaps and then through a sleeve at knee level, not all too snug which leads me to believe they would just be pulled aside by a moving chain. I don't like chaps either. Or visors, face shields, and ear muffs. I wear a tin hat and ear plugs and every now and then safety glasses
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2



I don't like any of the combo helmets I've tried out. I prefer a fibre metal hard hat with some glasses and ear plugs. I have some of the Mac T hats also and wear them some.


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## twochains (Dec 4, 2013)

Call me a dork but I want the helmet with the face shield and ear protection. I haven't worn ear protection for nearly 20 years, my hearing is leaving me more each year, at night my ears ring so bad I can't sleep. As far as chaps...if someone doesn't want to wear them...great. 14 stitches cost $475 in a po dunk town. As far as the face sheild, IDK about the visibility through it, but this Summer while limbing a tree I got a stick shoved in my bottom lip...I thought it just slapped my lip...nope, the stick had to be pulled out.


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## 056 kid (Dec 4, 2013)

Clint whats wrong with your ears? Those quiet choked up saws sure aren't hurting them!
Sorry, I couldn't help myself...


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## EricNY (Dec 4, 2013)

twochains said:


> Call me a dork but I want the helmet with the face shield and ear protection. I haven't worn ear protection for nearly 20 years, my hearing is leaving me more each year, at night my ears ring so bad I can't sleep. As far as chaps...if someone doesn't want to wear them...great. 14 stitches cost $475 in a po dunk town. As far as the face sheild, IDK about the visibility through it, but this Summer while limbing a tree I got a stick shoved in my bottom lip...I thought it just slapped my lip...nope, the stick had to be pulled out.



Doesn't make you a dork. It's all personal preference. I definitely see the benefits of the face shield, I just get weirded out by stuff over my face or eyes. 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2


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## twochains (Dec 4, 2013)

yeh yeh...not just from saws...my main damage came from stripping aluminun concrete wall forms. I was wrecking the inside forms of a vault and my jeft ear drum blew out. The knocking of pins and wedges inside an 8' tall box somewhere around 12 x 12 room reached some decibles my ear drum couldn't handle. 

Good to hear from ya 056kid, hope your staying busy! Stay safe out there!


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## redprospector (Dec 4, 2013)

SliverPicker said:


> I wear my oil saturated chaps, but I definitely need to find an alternative (like the jeans with chap pads inside). I can't tell you how many times I've been snagged up solid in brush by the straps on my chaps. Or have had to high-step over some obstacle and gotten the side lugs on my boots snagged on the edge of my chaps. I am afraid that one day I am going to have to run for my life, but will be hung up by my safety gear.
> 
> Has anyone tried the Labonville pants/chaps? They don't make my size, but I'm still curious.


 You have to learn to walk before you can run.  My advice is to stay safe, and don't get in a bind that requires a quick get-a-way until that time.

Andy


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## 056 kid (Dec 4, 2013)

Metal on metal can be obnoxiously loud. My old McCs rattle my ears, especially when the exhaust bounces and resonates off the wood, like a couple root flairs to direct the sound right to you. I knew a guy who ran 101bs or "karts" in the logging woods. That sob could hear an ant fart in a lightning storm. I dont know how...


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## SliverPicker (Dec 5, 2013)

Without the face shield you get whacked in the beak by 50 mph flying knots from time to time, but about the time your eyes stop watering you have forgotten all about. Or to put it another way; When the mind is weak the body will suffer!


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## SliverPicker (Dec 5, 2013)

redprospector said:


> You have to learn to walk before you can run.  My advice is to stay safe, and don't get in a bind that requires a quick get-a-way until that time.
> 
> Andy


If only life was that simple.


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## zogger (Dec 5, 2013)

EricNY said:


> Doesn't make you a dork. It's all personal preference. I definitely see the benefits of the face shield, I just get weirded out by stuff over my face or eyes.
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2



I know what you mean, I just am more weirded out in advance over stuff IN my face and eyes, rather than over them. The mesh screen on the husky helmet is quite easy to see through and doesn't fog up, and the helmet stays put any direction you tilt your head to, without it feeling like it is bolted to your head, it still feels comfortable and loose, yet stays put.

Those ww1 doughboy styled helmets (and yes way back in the olden days I had a similar one for construction work) have been replaced with more modern designs with every military in the world, must be a reason for that. And most industrial hardhat designs are not ww1 styled either. Not saying it is exactly the same, combat over general working, but.....I would wager nostalgia is playing a part in keeping them somewhat popular in some circles. What percentage, can't say, but I would bet that is part of it. 

Nostalgia would be running a big two man crosscut over a big chainsaw too, not seeing too many guys hanging onto the "old ways" in that regard on a day to day production schedule.

Me, I don't care what other guys use and run, just sayin what is working for me based on use and approaching the subject from a non nostalgic basis, a clean slate, no pre conceived notions because of what was done or used around me, just strictly from science and ergonomics. I looked at all the options when I decideed to get full PPE for cutting, and chose modern over antique styled personal protection gear. 

I am old enough when I started driving seat belts were not mandatory, but I use them now. Same deal, some things from the olden days are still cool, other things have actually been improved upon for the better.


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## madhatte (Dec 5, 2013)

zogger said:


> And most industrial hardhat designs are not ww1 styled either. Not saying it is exactly the same, combat over general working, but.....I would wager nostalgia is playing a part in keeping them somewhat popular in some circles.



The full-brim is all about keeping rain and debris from going down the shirt. I wore a ballcap style helmet for part of my first season in the woods (way back when) and switched immediately. They had us wearing thew ballcap ones on the boat, when we were in the shipyard, and wouldn't allow the full-brims because they weren't uniform, and I didn't mind because we were indoors and not under trees.


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## zogger (Dec 5, 2013)

madhatte said:


> The full-brim is all about keeping rain and debris from going down the shirt. I wore a ballcap style helmet for part of my first season in the woods (way back when) and switched immediately. They had us wearing thew ballcap ones on the boat, when we were in the shipyard, and wouldn't allow the full-brims because they weren't uniform, and I didn't mind because we were indoors and not under trees.



I can see that with the full brim, somewhat, the brim isn't that large. I haven't had a problem with that with my husky helmet, if you need it it has a flexible rubber flap for the back that can be attached.

There is no good solution to cutting or working in the rain, even with a full suit and a very wide brimmed hat you still get wet somehow...well, I do anyway. 

..and then there's wading the creeks......whoops, boots just an inch too short....dang....slosh slosh slosh...

I just have to remember to keep the pockets on the cutting pants closed, or they absolutely will fill up with chips...


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## northmanlogging (Dec 5, 2013)

Not to totally derail this, but I will anyway...

the WWI style hats where directly modeled on English helmets from the war of the Roses (lots of arrows and stuff) they where originally meant to help deflect arrows from the shoulders of infantry. Current military design is partly to protect the ears from noise, and the back of the head from falling debris while lying face down the the muck with bits of rocks and shrapnel falling about...

That all being said, timber falling is more like getting shot at with arrows than being blow up, I'll keep my full brim thank you.



P.S. the brim on the WWI hats helped in trench warfare since most of the bad stuff came from above...


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## slowp (Dec 5, 2013)

The full brim allows for a Frisbee fling also. Can't do that with the other kind.


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## Gologit (Dec 6, 2013)

slowp said:


> The full brim allows for a Frisbee fling also. Can't do that with the other kind.




That's right! With those wicker-bill hats or the plastic Roger Ramjet space cadet helmets there's too much imbalance and it's hard to get any good distance, let alone accuracy.


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## redprospector (Dec 6, 2013)

SliverPicker said:


> If only life was that simple.



Life is as simple as you let it be.  Stay safe.

Andy


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## slowp (Dec 6, 2013)

Gologit said:


> That's right! With those wicker-bill hats or the plastic Roger Ramjet space cadet helmets there's too much imbalance and it's hard to get any good distance, let alone accuracy.


 
Anybody have an opinion on which kind gets the best vertical distance? Or when flung hard at the ground during a fit, does plastic or metal come out better? For writing on, the metal is best, and for volume of writing the full brim is definitely the best as it has more underneath surface that is fairly dry.


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## Gologit (Dec 6, 2013)

slowp said:


> Anybody have an opinion on which kind gets the best vertical distance? Or when flung hard at the ground during a fit, does plastic or metal come out better? For writing on, the metal is best, and for volume of writing the full brim is definitely the best as it has more underneath surface that is fairly dry.



If you're having a full blown riggin' fit the metal hat is definitely better. After you've slammed it down on the ground and then drop-kicked it you can always take a ball peen hammer and knock out the worst of the dents.

I've never thrown a plastic hat, mostly 'cause I've seldom worn one, but as light as they are I think they'd do well for vertical distance. They're good for something, I guess. Metal makes a more satisfying noise when you ricochet one off of a loader or other metal object. Also, if they land in the warming fire you can usually get them out fast enough to avoid damage. Plastic wouldn't fare as well.

Caveat...if your riggin' fit is on the landing make sure the hat doesn't roll out onto the truck road just when an empty is backing in. Some things a ball peen hammer just won't fix.

And before any self righteous preacher type starts to lecture about grown up behavior and the futility of temper tantrums...if you haven't had or seen a good old hat throwing, circle walking, loud cussing, arm waving, red faced riggin' fit you probably haven't worked in the woods long enough. Wait.


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## northmanlogging (Dec 6, 2013)

That old jackson of mine never stood up to a good fit... always had to spend some considerable time removing dents...


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## slowp (Dec 6, 2013)

The guy screaming and cussing and jumping up and down from the flat part of the yarder yelling at the chaser/emergency yarder engineer about either putting on the brake or taking off the brake (the chaser didn't know either) didn't have a hat on to throw. That was the bestest fit I have ever seen. It surpassed the company forester in a panic because there was a line of empty trucks on the road and the company VIPs were about to fly over in the company jet. He threw his hardhat and began yelling at the truck drivers to get those golly gee darn (not his real words) trucks moved and parked underneath trees where they would not be seen from the air.


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## Gologit (Dec 6, 2013)

slowp said:


> It surpassed the company forester in a panic because there was a line of empty trucks on the road and the company VIPs were about to fly over in the company jet. He threw his hardhat and began yelling at the truck drivers to get those golly gee darn (not his real words) trucks moved and parked underneath trees where they would not be seen from the air.



Wow. I'll bet he was a real joy to work with. What did he do if something went really wrong...have a nervous breakdown?
I've seen empties lined up but it's usually because of a loader breakdown or just being over-trucked.


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## Sagetown (Dec 6, 2013)

Don't know about the plastic helmets, but the metal ones give that distinct sound of warning when trash from above begin to fall on it. Keeps one alert to his surroundings.


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## slowp (Dec 6, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Wow. I'll bet he was a real joy to work with. What did he do if something went really wrong...have a nervous breakdown?
> I've seen empties lined up but it's usually because of a loader breakdown or just being over-trucked.


 
He was an upper management type forester. He only appeared a couple of times. 

Their on the ground forester/rep was good to work with. Everybody could tell when he was not telling the truth. His face would turn red. He was out in the woods quite a bit. I don't remember him ever losing it. He did make a deal where one gypo had to pay him a quarter every time the gypo mentioned "the letter" or pulled "the letter" out of his pocket. The Forest Service had written a letter to the gypo thanking him for doing an excellent job on a campground sale. The gypo had a large quantity of copies made and always one with him. 

The good forester asked us to never write such a letter again.


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## SliverPicker (Dec 6, 2013)

redprospector said:


> Life is as simple as you let it be.  Stay safe.
> 
> Andy


Thank you, sir. I will. You do the same!


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## HuskStihl (Dec 6, 2013)

I bought one of those husky "pro forester" combos on an "open box special" at lowes for 30 bucks after I made sure it was safe for non-"pro foresters" to wear. It is actually quite durable and works as it should. The face shield is great for "weed eating." 10o mph acorns and the like will make the face bleed, which never seemed to make me a better or tougher person at all, just a guy with a weedeater and a bloody nose.
I specifically did not get a "tin lid" as for me it would be "poser city."


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## SliverPicker (Dec 6, 2013)

100 mph acorns!


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## Eccentric (Dec 6, 2013)

SliverPicker said:


> 100 mph acorns!



I haven't had that 'pleasure'......................but I have been pelted by 100mph stones, burrs, and the like. I HATE running string trimmers/brush cutters.


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## Sagetown (Dec 6, 2013)

Eccentric said:


> I haven't had that 'pleasure'......................but I have been pelted by 100mph stones, burrs, and the like. I HATE running string trimmers/brush cutters.


 Yep; a guy's asking for a pelting running one of them, even wearing a face shield. Them pebbles come right through it somehow and burns my hide. To top it all off, I spit a lot, and I can't get used to that face shield being between me and all outdoors. Yuk!


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## HuskStihl (Dec 6, 2013)

Being me I muffler modded and nasty tuned my Husqvarna pro trimmer. It clears stuff great, but man can it throw an acorn, especially if I'm using the 105 line


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## Gologit (Dec 6, 2013)

HuskStihl said:


> Being me I muffler modded and nasty tuned my Husqvarna pro trimmer. It clears stuff great, but man can it throw an acorn, especially if I'm using the 105 line




Okay, I confess. I actually own one of those plastic Space Cadet helmets with the face shield. But I only wear it when I'm weed whacking, never worn it to the woods at all and never will. You guys that work in the woods, please don't think less of me for this.


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## slowp (Dec 6, 2013)

I too, will confess. I do not have the funny "helmet" but I did get a screen face shield which I try to wear whilst weedwhacking. Acorns? Nope. Pumice. Yup, my soil is volcanic. Owie. I've got safety glasses on too.


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## HuskStihl (Dec 6, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Okay, I confess. I actually own one of those plastic Space Cadet helmets with the face shield. But I only wear it when I'm weed whacking, never worn it to the woods at all and never will. You guys that work in the woods, please don't think less of me for this.


Time to find a new hero This is worse than when I found out Liberace was gay


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## Gologit (Dec 6, 2013)

HuskStihl said:


> Time to find a new hero This is worse than when I found out Liberace was gay




Liberace was gay? Dammit, all this time I thought he was just kinda, well, graceful.


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## Sagetown (Dec 6, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Liberace was gay? Dammit, all this time I thought he was just kinda, well, graceful.


 
Well; Shoot.
Who else is hiding in that closet. I liked the actor Rock Hudson until he was dragged out of the closet, then ole Gomer Pile fell out of it too. What's got into these men?opcorn:


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## Eccentric (Dec 6, 2013)

Gomer was gay??? Surprise surprise surprise.......


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## redprospector (Dec 6, 2013)

SliverPicker said:


> Thank you, sir. I will. You do the same!


 
I will, and remember Life is good, even when things around you suck.

Andy


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## MasterBlaster (Dec 6, 2013)

Soooo, back to hardhats!


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## MasterBlaster (Dec 6, 2013)

Seriously, wear those suckers!


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## redprospector (Dec 6, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Okay, I confess. I actually own one of those plastic Space Cadet helmets with the face shield. But I only wear it when I'm weed whacking, never worn it to the woods at all and never will. You guys that work in the woods, please don't think less of me for this.


Haha. I want a picture of that. 
They probably don't make them anymore, but I bought a screen from Bailey's that fit on my MacT about 89. I got "Bells Palsy" and couldn't close my right eye. I was trying to figure a way to saw, and not get the eye full of sawdust...didn't work too well. I still dig it out once in a while when I run the "weed whacker". I may not look cool, but I don't look like Buck Rogers either. 

Andy


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## MasterBlaster (Dec 7, 2013)

What's the matter, Golegot? You one of those ballcap wearing cowboys? Do you hate gloves and earplugs, too?


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## Gologit (Dec 7, 2013)

Sagetown said:


> Well; Shoot.
> Who else is hiding in that closet. I liked the actor Rock Hudson until he was dragged out of the closet, then ole Gomer Pile fell out of it too. What's got into these men?opcorn:





MasterBlaster said:


> What's the matter, Golegot? You one of those ballcap wearing cowboys? Do you hate gloves and earplugs, too?




Hey Butch...how are ya? Bored? 

For those of you who are new here, Masterblaster has his own forum but when he feels like annoying people he comes over here. He wouldn't allow the kind of behavior he exhibits here on his own forum. He was banned for life here but somehow managed to talk his way back in. He's a good talker. Everybody pretty much has him figured out and nobody takes him seriously. Even the guys on his forum clown him.
Remember the old saying..."the loudest guy in the room is the weakest guy?" That's Butch.


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## MasterBlaster (Dec 7, 2013)




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## OlympicYJ (Dec 11, 2013)

slowp said:


> He was an upper management type forester. He only appeared a couple of times.
> 
> Their on the ground forester/rep was good to work with. Everybody could tell when he was not telling the truth. His face would turn red. He was out in the woods quite a bit. I don't remember him ever losing it. He did make a deal where one gypo had to pay him a quarter every time the gypo mentioned "the letter" or pulled "the letter" out of his pocket. The Forest Service had written a letter to the gypo thanking him for doing an excellent job on a campground sale. The gypo had a large quantity of copies made and always one with him.
> 
> The good forester asked us to never write such a letter again.



Got a good laugh out of this. I will say having a long string of trucks backed up isn't the greatest but if just a few I wouldn't of sweat it. Normally we don't trouble ourselves with backed up trucks that's the loggers business just means more loads for us unless they're tripping over each other. The letter thing is funny, gyp must have really been raggin him with that letter!


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## JakeG (Dec 11, 2013)

redprospector said:


> Haha. I want a picture of that.
> They probably don't make them anymore, but I bought a screen from Bailey's that fit on my MacT about 89. I got "Bells Palsy" and couldn't close my right eye. I was trying to figure a way to saw, and not get the eye full of sawdust...didn't work too well. I still dig it out once in a while when I run the "weed whacker". I may not look cool, but I don't look like Buck Rogers either.
> 
> Andy



Last I checked, madsens still has a face shield listed for tin lids.


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## puzlrock (Jan 5, 2021)

Nate66n1 said:


> Hi all, figure I'd ask here first. I recently picked up a McDonald aluminum hard hat and I was wondering if there's any place I can get a new or aftermarket suspension system for it. I seen baileys had the four point systems but this is a six point. All that really bad on it is the leather that fits around your head. Any input would be greatly appreciated, thanks Nate


Hey, I wore a McDonald for 50 years, finally wore out my last suspension and was having a hard time finding a replacement. I found a site: Westcoast Saw <[email protected]>. 
They have new hand made six point suspensions for sale. Happy to have my old tin hat back!


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## puzlrock (Jan 5, 2021)

madhatte said:


> The old leather 6-point suspension has been OOP for some time. You may have to build your own.


Westcoast Saw <[email protected]> has new suspensions for sale


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## madhatte (Jan 5, 2021)

That the same guys building those Bark Box mufflers?


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## Skeans (Jan 5, 2021)

madhatte said:


> That the same guys building those Bark Box mufflers?



Yes and I don’t think they’re too far from you either.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## madhatte (Jan 6, 2021)

Correct, I think they're in Enumclaw or Buckley or someplace out there in eastern Pierce County.


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## puzlrock (Jan 6, 2021)

madhatte said:


> Correct, I think they're in Enumclaw or Buckley or someplace out there in eastern Pierce County.


I think their address is in Maple valley by Tacoma.


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## CaptainMauw (Jan 6, 2021)

madhatte said:


> That the same guys building those Bark Box mufflers?


That would be Gordy. Great guy and one heck of a saw builder. He is good people.


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## madhatte (Jan 6, 2021)

Been meaning to check 'em out, might get around to it sooner than later.


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## CaptainMauw (Jan 6, 2021)

madhatte said:


> Been meaning to check 'em out, might get around to it sooner than later.


I have had numerous conversations with Gordy on troubleshooting some of my older saws. Finally got fed up with the old 661, bought a 461 from Cowlitz, had them hold it until Gordy dropped by to pick a few things up, and had him do his magic. We had multiple conversations on what I wanted out of the saw and shot the breeze on dozers, pans, overall dirt work, generic chainsaw stuff, and so on. The 461 end product is nothing shy of rediculous and his customer support is bar none.

He is a rarity these days in both personality and character.


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## madhatte (Jan 6, 2021)

Glad to hear it!


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## puzlrock (Jan 7, 2021)

Nate66n1 said:


> Hi all, figure I'd ask here first. I recently picked up a McDonald aluminum hard hat and I was wondering if there's any place I can get a new or aftermarket suspension system for it. I seen baileys had the four point systems but this is a six point. All that really bad on it is the leather that fits around your head. Any input would be greatly appreciated, thanks Nate


Westcoast Saw <[email protected]> Has new replacement suspensions


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## Drptrch (Apr 29, 2021)

Hope this finds all well. And since this was resurrected, what I’d the history, timeline difference between the 4 rivet and 6 rivet McDonalds. 
and I also see BF McD and McD “T” and or it says MSA 
Thanks for any info


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## puzlrock (Apr 29, 2021)

Nate66n1 said:


> Hi all, figure I'd ask here first. I recently picked up a McDonald aluminum hard hat and I was wondering if there's any place I can get a new or aftermarket suspension system for it. I seen baileys had the four point systems but this is a six point. All that really bad on it is the leather that fits around your head. Any input would be greatly appreciated, thanks Nate


Hello, Yes you can get new handmade six point liners for the old Mc Donald tin hats from West Coast Saw. Fit my old hat perfect and I am glad to be able to use it again. You need the clips from your old hat or you might need to order them too. 








McDonald 6-Point Liner Hard Hat Online At Westcoast Saw


The handmade hard hat 6-point safety liner is available in tan and black and fully adjustable. This liner is designed with care to ensure a comfortable fit and lasting durability.




westcoastsaw.com




Good Day
Don N


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## michpatriot (Apr 30, 2021)

West Coast Saws makes a nice replacement.. I added a Sweatso to mine..And a visor from Madsens.


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## puzlrock (Apr 30, 2021)

I have been wearing my tin hat for 60 years, don't like the plastic ones. I found Westcoast over a year ago and was pretty happy as my suspension was shot. Glad they started making them.


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