# Delrin Carriage Wheels, Will they work?



## Mekanizm (Dec 26, 2010)

I am going to make a carriage CSM and trying to do it on a budget. I have some 3" dia. delrin material that I can make wheels out of. I am thinking of a grooved wheel to ride on the leg of an angle.

I just wonder if anybody knows of a flaw in this idea such as 'they won't last' or it can break, too soft or whatever. I could see if they did bind up and quit rolling then they could 'flat spot'. They won't have any ball bearings so I will make the axles out of stainless so they won't rust up. The Delrin will slide on that good enough I believe. I can do this on the cheap so it's worth a shot.

This is a picture of the concept and an unfinished wheel. The angle it will ride on (3"x3"x1/4"?) will be steel (the aluminum one in the picture is just for concept). There is also a picture of someones mill that I am considering copying. I sure would like to find some more pictures of it and if anybody knows anything about this or any other "A-frame" styles.


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## qbilder (Dec 26, 2010)

Delrin will work just fine. It's an awesome material. It'll last much better than any metal.


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## Hillbilly3995 (Dec 26, 2010)

Looks ok to me, but I'm going to bet you're gonna wind up with a vee shaped groove in yer wheels so it can shed the sawdust. If you cut it to fit like that one is, I'm satisfied it will bind or fill and run off the rail.
Good Luck


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## BobL (Dec 26, 2010)

Delrin is good stuff but whether it will last will come down to amount of use. Flat spots could develop easily with it just sitting there with the vibe from a running saw running and the weight of the carriage and saw. Basically you have nothing to lose - if they lock up - just change them.


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## Mekanizm (Dec 26, 2010)

Delrin is a nice material. Lots of good properties. I'll keep my my fingers crossed as I move forward with this application of it.

Good point to consider on the grooved wheels packing up with sawdust, etc.

Do the commercial grooved wheel mills have a 'v' shape to them? I know gate wheels have a 90 degree groove and ride on the 'v' of angle iron but I just assumed the grooved ones had straight walls. 

I can grind the cutter for the groove to have a taper easy enough...maybe 5-10 degrees or more on each side. I hadn't considered that before. Thanks.

The mill will be a relatively low-use mill. Flat spotting could rear it's head....I can make replacement wheels easy enough if I have to. Maybe get some dimensions for commercial grooved wheels and see if I can pre-plan ahead in the event drop-in replacements are needed. Another good point. Thanks also.


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## BobL (Dec 26, 2010)

Mekanizm said:


> I can grind the cutter for the groove to have a taper easy enough...maybe 5-10 degrees or more on each side. I hadn't considered that before.



I would go for a bit more angle than that. My mini-mill uses 90º V-wheels because it rides on the corners of a RHS section. These wheels still collect some gunk (more than I like) and I need to make a sawdust cowling that directs the sawdust away from the usual sawdust ejection point of the saw.





I was going to make my wheels out of Delrin but I found some nice bits of brass rod in the scraps bin at work so I used that instead.

When you build your mill I would put some effort into sawdust deflection/ejection because that is one thing that becomes a PITA for many rail type mills.


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## Hillbilly3995 (Dec 27, 2010)

One other pitfall but probably a non issue, delrin has a low tolerance for heat, make sure no heat source is focused on any wheel. (exhaust etc)

I noticed you said you were grinding cutters instead of using indexable inserts.
Stainless will make a fine cutter for delrin, much easier to grind than HSS or carbide, especially considering you'll probably only use it for your wheels.


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## Hillbilly3995 (Dec 27, 2010)

BobL said:


> I would go for a bit more angle than that. My mini-mill uses 90º V-wheels because it rides on the corners of a RHS section. These wheels still collect some gunk (more than I like) and I need to make a sawdust cowling that directs the sawdust away from the usual sawdust ejection point of the saw.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Bob, ever considered mounting some little brush sweepers on your wheels?


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## Mekanizm (Dec 27, 2010)

Sounds like a good idea to open the angle up some more. If a 90 deg. V-wheel will pickup sawdust then a grooved wheel could really pack-up it sounds like. Looking at your pictures Bob, I see where keeping your rail clean would matter. I have some brush sweepers and will consider that.

I'll start out with Delrin because I have some but I will think ahead regarding ease of replacement as a backup plan. I'll make sure heat stays off of it too.


Thanks


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## TNMIKE (Dec 27, 2010)

Why not find some steel wheels with bearings in them? They are pretty cheap and will last forever.


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## Ted J (Dec 27, 2010)

TNMIKE said:


> Why not find some steel wheels with bearings in them? They are pretty cheap and will last forever.



That what I was thinking!

http://www.central-steel.net/4inchcastironv-groovewheel.aspx

http://www.cisco-eagle.com/catalog/c-2169-4-to-5-dia.aspx

Ted


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## Mekanizm (Dec 27, 2010)

Four wheels and shipping looks to start at $50 and go up (This is a good price BTW). Even at $50, I can save that money for other, more pressing, things (like the threaded rods, lol). Money is a consideration at the present.

But I can study the $50 set and use it's dimensions to make the delrin ones and be ready to spend the dime if the Delrin just doesn't work out. For that matter, I could make the Delrin wheels with a "V" instead of a groove and distribute the wear and load over a larger area maybe making them more suitable.

I have time to ponder. Thanks all for the advise, suggestions and links!

Good Stuff.....


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## bobsreturn (Dec 28, 2010)

The lucas saw use them they have bearings and get replaced ,but work well for a long tme . the new ones have a thin slot on one side of the carriage and wider ones for other side , this seems to locate and work well . cheers Bob


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## john taliaferro (Dec 28, 2010)

if they all 4 had a slot the track would have to be perfect or lot of side to side play in one side. seams like sloted would jump track easier look at train wheels


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## DRB (Jan 4, 2011)

Mekanizm said:


> I am going to make a carriage CSM and trying to do it on a budget. I have some 3" dia. delrin material that I can make wheels out of. I am thinking of a grooved wheel to ride on the leg of an angle.
> 
> I just wonder if anybody knows of a flaw in this idea such as 'they won't last' or it can break, too soft or whatever. I could see if they did bind up and quit rolling then they could 'flat spot'. They won't have any ball bearings so I will make the axles out of stainless so they won't rust up. The Delrin will slide on that good enough I believe. I can do this on the cheap so it's worth a shot.
> 
> This is a picture of the concept and an unfinished wheel. The angle it will ride on (3"x3"x1/4"?) will be steel (the aluminum one in the picture is just for concept). There is also a picture of someones mill that I am considering copying. I sure would like to find some more pictures of it and if anybody knows anything about this or any other "A-frame" styles.


 
Mekanizm
Thats a pic of my mill. Heres a couple more pics









Be sure to make you carriage heavy enough that the saw does not want to pull it sideways. My carriage is to light and when I sharpen the 088 to take a big bite it wants to pull it off the tracks or flexes the carriage so it loads up the saw motor and lets go in a bouncing fashion. An Alaskan mill pulls the saw head against the log so this does not happen.


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## Mekanizm (Jan 4, 2011)

Thanks for the info!


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## BobL (Jan 5, 2011)

DRB said:


> Mekanizm
> Thats a pic of my mill. Heres a couple more pics


It could be the photo but it looks like the heavy 880 is starting to bend the bar? 


Even with a carriage rail mill it's my guess that it's better to build the carriage wider than the CS and longer than the CS bar so the CS sits partially inside the carriage, so that the carriage can bolt to the bar bolts- something like this.







> An Alaskan mill pulls the saw head against the log so this does not happen.


This only happens on Alaskan where the mill is bolted to the bar bolts. On Alaskans where the mill clamps or bolts to the bar the CS powerhead is not up against the log and can rack the mill and bog down the forward motion of the mill. Ideally the only thing you want hard up against the bar is a set of large wheels or skids.


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## DRB (Jan 5, 2011)

BobL

The bar in that pic. is bent a little. The bungee cord on the saw head is used to support the power head but it's not hooked up in that pic. 

Some day I will build a new heavier carriage with better support of the power head. Something like your new mill.


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## 820wards (Jan 6, 2011)

DRB said:


> BobL
> 
> The bar in that pic. is bent a little. The bungee cord on the saw head is used to support the power head but it's not hooked up in that pic.
> 
> Some day I will build a new heavier carriage with better support of the power head. Something like your new mill.



DBR,

I had a problem with my mill flexing the bar due to the weight of the power-head, so I made this simple bracket that ties the top of the adjustment bar to the power-head frame. I just didn't like the movement I was getting at the power-head that was only supported by the bar. Obviously my mill isn't using a traditional chainsaw, but you should be able to make an easily removed bracket that ties the saw and milling frame together. 

Here is the bracket I made.


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