# Average Starting pay for Faller in Northern NE?



## yepper (Oct 10, 2015)

Hey all, 

As the title says I'm looking to start full time work in the logging industry as a faller. Hand cutting is what interests me, harvesters are cool but I just can't see myself sitting in a cab full time. I've read all the stuff before about "you gotta be crazy to do this" etc. etc. and pass all those checklists. Don't mind nasty weather a bit (just finished thru-hiking the Appalachian Trail so I've been living outsie six months straight) and nothing feels more like home than when I've got a chainsaw in my hands, even on Friday evening after it's been kicking my ass all week. 

A little about my experience level, my last several jobs were farm and sugarbush operations that had me felling trees as a significant portion of the work. I'm competent with bore cutting, wedging, hard leans, identifying hazards, etc. getting wood on the ground in one piece without killing myself I just don't yet have the same speed as someone doing this day in day out for years. I haven't run an actual skidder but I've done skidding with a 3 point winch and run other heavy equipment, skid steers and tractors up to 130 horse. 

I know there is a HUGE variation in numbers nationwide so I am not looking for an exact figure but I'm just having a hard time even finding a baseline to negotiate with prospective employers. I think I'm walking a fine line pay wise between doing my time as an underdog, outright getting screwed, and scaring potential jobs off by shooting too high. I'm looking at jobs in northern New England, especially VT. I'm communicating with one company in VT right now. I read on the Bureau of Labor Statistics site that nationwide median for a faller is $16.07/hr. so I thought a few bucks below that is probably a starting point for someone like myself, familiar with cutting but still a greenhorn to doing it on a production basis. Does that sound reasonable to you folks? I also realize many jobs pay by the ton or by the thousand but what I'm looking at right now is hourly, I would appreciate average numbers for that payment method if folks have them. Any other advice about getting into the business you can provide is also appreciated, so far my impression is that it's a hard thing to get your foot in the door of but somehow lots of people have done it. Thanks a lot.


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## catbuster (Oct 10, 2015)

NE, as in New England? Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire? 

I'm not trying to crush your dream... But don't plan on being a hand faller in that area. There just isn't a demand for it. Most forestry crews in that area are using harvesters because they're more productive, and maybe they'll have one guy who can hand fall to handle danger trees, and he's usually a senior man on the crew.

If you're talking about Nebraska, I have no clue.


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## 1270d (Oct 10, 2015)

I log in michigan, and that would be an ok wage for a faller with some experience. We would provide equipment and a ride to work. 

Most faller's are independent types and want to set their own schedule and run their own equipment, so then the pay is adjusted up accordingly.

Most common pay method is by scale, or piece work. But seems like its getting harder to hire a guy as a contract cutter anymore. Everyone wants to be hired on and covered by our comp, etc. Comp rate for a saw hand is now 42 cents on a dollar for us. 5 cent for an equipment operator.


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## yepper (Oct 10, 2015)

catbuster said:


> NE, as in New England? Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire?
> 
> I'm not trying to crush your dream... But don't plan on being a hand faller in that area. There just isn't a demand for it. Most forestry crews in that area are using harvesters because they're more productive, and maybe they'll have one guy who can hand fall to handle danger trees, and he's usually a senior man on the crew.
> 
> If you're talking about Nebraska, I have no clue.



Sorry, yes I mean northern New England no current interest in relocating to Nebraska! I know there isn't a ton of demand for it but there are occasional postings like the one I responded to. I know that it's almost all mechanized up in Maine but I still see a lot of hand cutting around VT, couple guys and a cable skidder type operation. Of course those are rarely looking for anyone, a forester in the area mentioned to me that the owner or a direct descendant of the owner doesn't have to carry workman's comp in VT hence a lot of father & son(s) type operations around there. Anyhow if the job I'm currently looking at doesn't come together and nothing else is posted it'll probably be setting my sights on commercial tree service work, I much prefer to be deep in the woods but I sure can't go broke waiting for it to happen.


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## Plankton (Oct 14, 2015)

catbuster said:


> NE, as in New England? Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire?
> 
> I'm not trying to crush your dream... But don't plan on being a hand faller in that area. There just isn't a demand for it. Most forestry crews in that area are using harvesters because they're more productive, and maybe they'll have one guy who can hand fall to handle danger trees, and he's usually a senior man on the crew.
> 
> If you're talking about Nebraska, I have no clue.




Are you from new england? Because it doesnt sound like you've ever even leaf peeped in our states. Maine and some of northern vermont has alot of mechanized crews and there speckled through out all of new england but the majority of operators out here are family/small crews running skidders and forwarders.


Yepper, If you know the right people and can cut timber well you will have a job. If you can run a skidder or own a skidder you'll be better off for sure because the volume/pace of most harvests I see dont call for having a specific "faller" like out west. Two companys within 20 minutes of me are looking for multiple people right now who can cut and run a skidder. $20 an hour is what one company is offering, the other works on contract per load logged out using their skidder, not sure of there rate. I'm in northwestern mass but I was working/living on a construction job in northern vermont last month and it seemed like the wages and prices of things were the same as down here so you could probably go with $20 an hr.

I would recommend learning how to run a skidder or at least be willing to learn/run one on the job and get a job with a logging company. You will be more valuable to them if you can operate a skidder as well. There will still be plenty of timber falling to get after and only a large operation could support dedicated faller full time.


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## Skeans (Oct 14, 2015)

I will say even out west if it's not too steep or too big we'll hit it with a buncher, there's guys out here that use to hand cut that now run bunchers that will face up to a 5 footer and drop it.

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## catbuster (Oct 14, 2015)

Plankton said:


> Are you from new england? Because it doesnt sound like you've ever even leaf peeped in our states. Maine and some of northern vermont has alot of mechanized crews and there speckled through out all of new england but the majority of operators out here are family/small crews running skidders and forwarders.
> 
> 
> Yepper, If you know the right people and can cut timber well you will have a job. If you can run a skidder or own a skidder you'll be better off for sure because the volume/pace of most harvests I see dont call for having a specific "faller" like out west. Two companys within 20 minutes of me are looking for multiple people right now who can cut and run a skidder. $20 an hour is what one company is offering, the other works on contract per load logged out using their skidder, not sure of there rate. I'm in northwestern mass but I was working/living on a construction job in northern vermont last month and it seemed like the wages and prices of things were the same as down here so you could probably go with $20 an hr.
> ...



I'm working in PA, but built ~20 miles of road in Maine last year around Jackman. And sure, there are small operations. But I wouldn't expect to see any full time fallers on small crews, like I said.


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## redoakman (Oct 15, 2015)

to answer your question . a experienced faller in hardwood country aka what I work in either gets payed 15-25 bucks an hour or gets payed by the board feet you cut( this is the most common way) . good handfallers are in high demand everywhere. catbuster is incorrect on his state ments only way to make money in hardwood country is small crew . yes there are mechines but fewer then you may expect . post a vid of you falling trees would love to see it


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## yepper (Oct 15, 2015)

redoakman said:


> post a vid of you falling trees would love to see it



Oh boy, I wouldn't dare post a video in here normally but since you specifically asked here's the channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/vezinapotomis I do believe I'm going to be swiftly told to go back to Firewood and stay there but we've all got to start somewhere, that's what I've gotten my hands on so far. If you watch the videos I'll answer your first question by saying the stumps are high in my most recent videos at landowner request for use as fence posts, no I would not cut a piece of timber that way... Seems like someone always asks despite it being in the video caption. 

Thanks everyone else for the advice, sounds like some decent numbers. Currently have a solid lead on a commercial outfit in Rutland with great benefits better than I suspect I'd get logging, as I already said would rather be deep in the woods but I've gotta live too so that does play into the decision. Lots of uncertainty in the air that will hopefully resolve soon, I may contact a few of you who mentioned specific places if what I'm currently looking at falls through.


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## redoakman (Oct 15, 2015)

your not a bad faller at all . alot to learn but u now the basics . I would suggest u get into a 3 man crew aka 2 and you . you will learn the most on a crew like that .


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## ropensaddle (Oct 15, 2015)

catbuster said:


> NE, as in New England? Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire?
> 
> I'm not trying to crush your dream... But don't plan on being a hand faller in that area. There just isn't a demand for it. Most forestry crews in that area are using harvesters because they're more productive, and maybe they'll have one guy who can hand fall to handle danger trees, and he's usually a senior man on the crew.
> 
> If you're talking about Nebraska, I have no clue.


Nebraska uses combines


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## mesupra (Oct 15, 2015)

The was a wanted add on clist for a fella in central maine a couple weeks ago


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## bnmc98 (Oct 15, 2015)

Skeans said:


> I will say even out west if it's not too steep or too big we'll hit it with a buncher, there's guys out here that use to hand cut that now run bunchers that will face up to a 5 footer and drop it.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk



That's quite a large stick. Our buncher which is an older TJ with a bar saw will handle up to about 30". He can go a little bigger but he has to go around the tree with it, and its not pretty, usually loses the tree and then its a nightmare to get out. That thing will go where no skidder can go too. Mountain goat of a machine.


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## Skeans (Oct 15, 2015)

bnmc98 said:


> That's quite a large stick. Our buncher which is an older TJ with a bar saw will handle up to about 30". He can go a little bigger but he has to go around the tree with it, and its not pretty, usually loses the tree and then its a nightmare to get out. That thing will go where no skidder can go too. Mountain goat of a machine.


The old Timberjack 2618 and 2628 were a good machine but lots of the guys here will run the tigercats with the hotsaws. I do know what you mean about the bar saws I have a fabtek 2000 head on a 653 it takes a while to learn to fall oversize.

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## bitzer (Oct 16, 2015)

30-40 dollars per mbf here. Thats fall and buck in the woods. Your own equipment and insurance. Insurance is about 6-800 per year. 2mbf per hour for me is not uncommon. You guys have steep ground in Vt right?

Why in Gods name would you butcher up a 5fter with a machine? Thats rhetorical by the way. Pisses me off tho.


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## Skeans (Oct 16, 2015)

bitzer said:


> 30-40 dollars per mbf here. Thats fall and buck in the woods. Your own equipment and insurance. Insurance is about 6-800 per year. 2mbf per hour for me is not uncommon. You guys have steep ground in Vt right?
> 
> Why in Gods name would you butcher up a 5fter with a machine? Thats rhetorical by the way. Pisses me off tho.


That's not one of my practices but have seen it done, they are pushing faller out of the business as much as possible. Lots of the companies are on a 37 year cycle so nothing big will be left for fallers.

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## bitzer (Oct 16, 2015)

Skeans said:


> That's not one of my practices but have seen it done, they are pushing faller out of the business as much as possible. Lots of the companies are on a 37 year cycle so nothing big will be left for fallers.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


I believe it. Dam shame. My biggest merch tree ever was about 5 foot. 30" wood is good wood to be in around here. Good production and prime timber. When you get in the 4ft range here quality is really hit and miss. Our timber averages 1-200 years old tho. Production Hand cutters are hard to find here. Thats good for me. There will always be a niche here for that.


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## Jet47 (Nov 6, 2015)

Here in Nova Scotia I am the lone faller in our outfit. I handle anything 2' and above when it comes to the softwood, and any of the larger hardwood.


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