# Need some help ID'ing this tree



## retoid (Jul 7, 2010)

Sorry if this isn't the correct spot to post up for needed ID'ing of tree's I searched but didnt find much.

Is anyone able to help me ID this tree? I'm having trouble figuring it out. The leaves look to be similar to birch and alder but this is no birch or alder to my knowledge.

Location: Pacific Northwest Washington

Thanks


----------



## lone wolf (Jul 7, 2010)

Well I take a shot at sweet birch look up the pics tell me if im close.


----------



## retoid (Jul 7, 2010)

I don't think that's it either, so far I have not seen it produce any fruit/flowers and the sweet birch leaves are spaced further away than this tree.
The bark does not match either.


----------



## komatsuvarna (Jul 7, 2010)

Try clump river birch?


----------



## retoid (Jul 7, 2010)

neither of those look very close hehe. thanks though.


----------



## 2dogs (Jul 8, 2010)

The leaves look like an ash tree.


----------



## bitzer (Jul 8, 2010)

Ash has a compound leaf and the individual leaves are opposite instead of alternating. They actually look like a type of elm. Elm are sawtooth and alternating. I don't think it is though.


----------



## Curlycherry1 (Jul 8, 2010)

I too thought it was elm based on the leaves, but the bark does not look like elm.


----------



## retoid (Jul 8, 2010)

Yeah, i've checked all those types and none match, some are close but nothing definite. Also the tree has not yet shown any signs of fruit, I would assume that if it were going to produce fruit it would have already started growing a bit.


----------



## retoid (Jul 8, 2010)

TreeCo said:


> The fruit is going to be the number one method of ID'ing your tree.



Well yes, this is why it's so difficult to ID. I will keep an eye on it and look for fruit but, we just hit our peak in temperature highs here, it won't last long. All deciduous tree's here have produced their leaves and fruit and have begun maturing. So I am not convinced this tree will produce any fruit :/


----------



## ray benson (Jul 8, 2010)

Is there an old flush cut stump in the middle of that clump? The leaves remind me of one of the elms.


----------



## retoid (Jul 8, 2010)

ray benson said:


> Is there an old flush cut stump in the middle of that clump? The leaves remind me of one of the elms.



It seems like it from the way it's growing with a bunch of smaller branches spread out from the bottom. I am not sure though. When I get off work today I will take some more pictures and take a look, I'll post them up here later on.

Thanks guys.


----------



## woodbooga (Jul 8, 2010)

Curlycherry1 said:


> I too thought it was elm based on the leaves, but the bark does not look like elm.



That was my reaction too. Wouldn't rule elm out, but the bark seems a bit off.


----------



## forestryworks (Jul 8, 2010)

it's a prolific stump sprouter :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## retoid (Jul 8, 2010)

I am leaning on elm as well.

Found this image in google search for elm.









Possibly a Slippery/Red Elm


----------



## forestryworks (Jul 8, 2010)

The unequilateral base makes me guess elm. If it is an elm, it will either already have fruited (spring) or will fruit late summer or early fall.

Also feel the leaves, if sandpapery or rough above, you could say Slippery Elm. If smooth above, could be American or another elm.


----------



## bitzer (Jul 8, 2010)

I was playing around with some elm today and I would say I'm about 90% sure that is what it is. The new growth suckers on the trees I was cutting really looked like the first close up pick. A better pic of the canopy would confirm it for me I think. 

Bark on elms can be really different I've found too. I've seen trees less than 20' away of similar size and the bark looks completely different, but the leaves are the same. 

Slippery Elm will have a mucusy membrane under the bark, hence slippery elm. 

Cut some decent pieces, leave them in the sun to dry and if it smells like a sweaty horse, its elm!


----------



## buzz sawyer (Jul 9, 2010)

Based on the leaves and bark, I'm going to go out on a limb and say Allegheny Chinkapin. Only trouble is, it's not native to WA - only Southeast and West to Texas. Should have flowers and nuts similar to chestnut.


----------



## woodbooga (Jul 9, 2010)

I don't know about any elms that might be native to that region, but the elm here in New England...well, the proof is in the splitting. Buck up a round and whack with a maul. Damn twisty-stringy grain makes it quite the chore to split.


----------



## PB (Jul 9, 2010)

forestryworks said:


> The *inequilateral base makes me guess elm*. If it is an elm, it will either already have fruited (spring) or will fruit late summer or early fall.
> 
> Also feel the leaves, if sandpapery or rough above, you could say Slippery Elm. If smooth above, could be American or another elm.



That is a great give-away for an elm. The base of the leaf has unequal sides. Another good feature to look at are the veins of the leaves, they split off the center vein like a feather (pinnately) and end in the tip of the leaf serration. 

The leaves you posted are more than likely an elm. I am going to go out on a limb and say you have an English elm also called a smoothleaf elm (_Ulmus minor_ or _procera_). They were planted as ornamentals before the DED killed most. It could be another elm, just my best guess without seeing it in person. If you can find a flower in the spring (usually around tax day for elms) it will be easier to ID.


----------



## bitzer (Jul 9, 2010)

woodbooga said:


> I don't know about any elms that might be native to that region, but the elm here in New England...well, the proof is in the splitting. Buck up a round and whack with a maul. Damn twisty-stringy grain makes it quite the chore to split.



Yep on the splitting PITA for elm, but great for woodburning! 


Like PB said, I know that a lot of elms were planted as ornamentals for a long time before Dutch Elm got them back in the 50s and 60s. Possibly that tree was a hold out because elm is not native for that region or there are some dutch elm reisistant strains. Dutch elm does not kill the tree every time either. I cut about a dozen last fall that had finally succumed to DED that were 36-48" DBH range. They showed signs of earlier attacks and healing.


----------



## Ikeholt (Jul 9, 2010)

Elm +1


----------



## woodbooga (Jul 9, 2010)

bitzercreek1 said:


> Yep on the splitting PITA for elm, but great for woodburning!
> 
> 
> Like PB said, I know that a lot of elms were planted as ornamentals for a long time before Dutch Elm got them back in the 50s and 60s. Possibly that tree was a hold out because elm is not native for that region or there are some dutch elm reisistant strains. Dutch elm does not kill the tree every time either. I cut about a dozen last fall that had finally succumed to DED that were 36-48" DBH range. They showed signs of earlier attacks and healing.



They were the ideal streetscape tree. Big, beautiful crown with few or no lower branches to impede the view of storefronts. 

As a result of DED, there are a lot of elmless Elm streets these days.

Indeed, good firewood. Really expemplifies the idea that firewood warms you twice - first when splitting, second when burning!


----------



## bitzer (Jul 9, 2010)

woodbooga said:


> They were the ideal streetscape tree. Big, beautiful crown with few or no lower branches to impede the view of storefronts.
> 
> As a result of DED, there are a lot of elmless Elm streets these days.



I've read that Milwaukee and surrounding suburbs lost something like 10,000 trees practically overnight. Streets once completely lined with Elm canopy where suddenly tree less. DED is coming back in a big way around here too. I've noticed something like a 70% die off over the last 3 or 4 years. They are everywhere. 


It looks the same is going to happen around here with Ash trees. In the town closest to me there are 3500 Ash trees on city property and who knows how many on private property. EAB has been found downtown and in surrounding towns already. Its just a matter of time.


----------



## Curlycherry1 (Jul 9, 2010)

This photo is what a boulevard of elm trees used to look like. Believe it or not South Minneapolis still has streets that look like this. They really went all out to save the trees and many are still making it. I think I read the city still has 100,000 surviving elms. They are losing a bunch each year, but they are trying their best to save them.


----------



## retoid (Jul 11, 2010)

Alot of interesting information here.

Sorry for not getting new pics up, there was no stump in the middle. It's gotta be a slippery elm, the leaves have a coarse feel to them and there is also some sap.
I'll be trimming/removing most of the smaller branches that are spreading from the base to clear up some yard space and for a little extra firewood.


----------

