# Need Help!! Starting Firewood Business and Splitting Service!!



## Git-R-Split (May 25, 2010)

Hi, I am new to this site but have found it to be a great help in starting a firewood business. I have been selling firewood (small scale while in high school) for the last few years. About five months ago a buddy and I decided to go big or go home. We rented a big lot and had tree services drop off loads to cut and split. We filled the lot and now we are just waiting on calls  Summer sales have been slow as expected,,, but I was still looking for a way to make some money back before I go back to school in the fall. Bought a new 361, used 460, and new/ used Huskee 20 ton  (Spent lots but im VERRY HAPPY) Anyways I posted an add on Craigslist advertising a splitting and stacking service. I have had good luck so far, lots of little easy jobs for quick money. But I have not yet worked out a system for estimates and what to charge. I got his email today 

I recently had two oaks cut down into 14" long pieces. The first was 27 inches round at the base and has about 40 round pieces. The second was 32 inches round at the base and has about 50 pieces. I am interested in having the logs split and stacked in place.

This job is an hour away and it will cost me about $40 in gas to pull the splitter / trailer there and back. Does anyone know about how long this job would take with my splitter? Should I charge by the hourly rate? Is it best to charge a flat fee? What would you guys charge?

I might be able to barrow a splitter similar to mine and put both on a utility trailer? Not sure about that though.

All responses are appreciated. Thanks in advanced, Robbie


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## Muffler Bearing (May 25, 2010)

1st the customer is not going to like my price.

2 men X 1 day...cost $160
1 Truck X 1 day..cost $80.
1 Splitter X 1 day ....$80.
Fuel exp .................$60

Your dead cost $ 380.

My price..........$750.

Like I said... He ain't going to like the $$$

Keep us posted.


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## qweesdraw (May 25, 2010)

A guy here on Craigslist is @ $30 per hour w/splitter.
Here is the ad and how it is worded.
http://boulder.craigslist.org/grd/1735530338.html
I wonder if it includes fuel?
Keep in mind your tools will not last forever,as he will find out.
Hope this helps.
Mark


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## blackdogon57 (May 25, 2010)

My advice would be to stay away from jobs like that. You can't charge enough to make it worth your while. Same with stacking. Stick to what your doing on your lot and get the word out that you have wood for sale. I sell lots of wood this time of year. Many people who buy their wood and rely on it for heat buy this time of year to ensure that it will burn well next winter. Good luck !!


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## Junkrunner (May 25, 2010)

I like to look at the "job" first. Terrain can make a BIG difference. I stuck my foot in my mouth before and got screwed. I don't like doing hourly work. I'd rather give a price on the whole job. 
If you guys have been working together, with your equipment. You should be able to look at the job, and know how long it's going to take. Give a fair price, I like to; "put my foot in their shoes" would i pay that?. This has been working for me, the customers are happy, I'm happy, made what I wanted, and they refer me to others.

Hourly work is fine, if you are unsure of your abilities. It's just not as profitable (in my book)


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## blades (May 25, 2010)

in my neck of the woods splitting add on CL is $20/hr.


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## 1harlowr (May 25, 2010)

Congratulations on the ambition. 
If there are two of you, each piece should take you maybe 5min each to split and stack. 90 pieces times 5min is 7.5 hours times 2 people= 15 man hours times $20hr = $300 plus travel ($40) and equipment wear and tear ($10hr x 7.5hrs=$75). $415 total. You'd probably be humping it to make the 7.5hrs.
If you are splitting and stacking in the same spot, might be worth it to you. If you have to move the splits far, the job might be a PITA for the money. 
Round up to $500. If he agrees, great. If not, oh well just sell the wood you have.


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## avalancher (May 25, 2010)

I sincerely doubt the homeowner is going to go for what it would cost you to travel that far,much less what you need to make a profit.Folks have a tendency to lump "splitting and stacking" in with grunt work,pennies per hour. The only time I split and stack on location is when I am taking the tree down, making a nice pile of wood in someone's carport somehow sweetens the blow when I hand them an estimate for taking the tree down.Its easy to justify 800 bucks for a tree to be gone when it ends up on their carport waiting to be used for fuel to heat their home.But in the long run, I figure splitting and stacking at the same hourly rate of $50 an hour as I do tree work.If you have to drive an hour just to look at the job,you are already out a considerable amount of expense when you figure in fuel, wear and tear on your vehicle, and above all your time involved.An hour each direction,looking at the job,etc is going to eat up almost three hours of your time,time much better spent busting wood at your woodlot.I would pass on the job unless the homeowner wants to agree with an hourly rate over the phone that would reflect what you need to get to make it worthwhile.

It has been my experience that the lowballers on Craigslist that are pricing their work at $20.00 an hour are doing nothing but selling the equity in their equipement.They may stick that $20.00 an hour in their pocket for the time being,but when repairs are needed or worse equipement needing replacing they are up the proverbial creek without a paddle. Any succesful business needs to not only cover expenses of today and tomorrow,but they need to make a profit.


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## giXXer (May 25, 2010)

Run the numbers backwards. What is the wood going to be worth when cut, split, and stacked? It's difficult to estimate the quantity of wood without actually seeing it, but as we all know a nice, large tree always ends up being much less wood than we expect. If it ends up being only 2 cords of wood, I doubt the homeowner would want to pay $750. If it's 4 cords (which I'm sure there wouldn't be that much) that would be approximately $520-$600 in wood (Mi prices). At that quantity it would make sense for the homeowner to pay $300-$400 to get the job done. If your price is going to be higher than what the customer can get for delivered, dry, seasoned, split, and stacked wood, I doubt they'll be using your service. Good luck with the new endeavor!


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## mdotis (May 25, 2010)

*I agree for the most part*

However, if you have to make a payment on the equipment and need the cash you may be forced into doing the job on the cheap. Also keep in mind if you do not get the job what would you do that day? If you say nothing then maybe a little money is better than nothing. If you have other jobs that would make you more money then do them first. This one is not simple. Also keep in mind that a day off is still worth something. One day rest will help you work harder home at the wood lot. Sometimes it is best to ask them what they would pay. They may want it moved bad enough to give you a good price. Keep in mind what your min is for the job and then see how close he is on his guess, let him speak first as the first one to set up the price may lose the most.


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## BlueRidgeMark (May 25, 2010)

Estimating is the hardest part of running a labor intensive business. It was my job for about 2 1/2 years. Just estimating project costs. Here's my take:

You don't have enough experience to know what to charge. Nobody here can help you. Even an experineced man would need more info, wouild probably need to see the work.

Easy solution, charge by the hour. Make it worth your while - don't give it away!

Charge for the trip, and make it clear that your quote depends on reasonably flat terrain and good access.


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## avalancher (May 25, 2010)

:agree2:


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## aandabooks (May 25, 2010)

$50 per hour and the clock starts when your truck leaves the driveway and the return trip home as well. Oak that large will probably require noodling before you will be able to lift it onto a splitter.


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## indiansprings (May 25, 2010)

I think you have been given some excellent advice so far. We are in the firewood business, not big by any means, we project we'll sell 400-500 cords this fall and winter depending on how cold it is. I think you charge a flat fee for arrival and set up to make sure you cover your cost. I would prolly charge $60.00 bucks just to pull the splitter over and set up, this way it covers your expense in gas and time. Your going to use at least four gallons of gas, $12.00, lunch will cost you $6.00. You need to determine what your labor is worth. We would prolly do it for $10.00-$12.00 an hour for labor per person for splitting and stacking. Firewood business is extremely slow during this time of year, we just have a hand full of cutomers that want wood pre-burning season delivery, we usually give them a price break. I know this year we are going to raise our price from $35.00 a face cord to $45.00 a face cord delivered/stacked unless they buy at least ten face ford at a time then we'll charge them $40.00 if they pick up at our place it will be $35.00.


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## Git-R-Split (May 25, 2010)

*Email Update*

Thanks to everyone who responded (very impressed with the amount of responses in a short time..... I appreciate it!) But I decided to play it safe and charge him $500 flat fee BUT if the job takes longer than 8 hours it will be another $35 per hour. I am hoping I can get another splitter but if not ill have to pull out the favor card and have the boys use the Fiskars axes while one of us splits. Not even sure it is worth it from the email i got today. This guy thinks this is a 2.5 - 3 hr job. oh and Ill have to walk a 500 lb splitter 50 yds through grass. Here is the email -

"Attached are photos. I would like the wood split and then stacked in place, no cutting. Entry to first tree is about 25 yards through the grass from my driveway, Second tree is another 50 yards to other side of the back yard. I'd prefer not to have a truck go over the grass without plywood. Its a flat work space and the stacking location is the same location as the wood. I do not expect it to be an 8-9 hour job, should be 2.5 to 3 hours." 

Hahhhah - I wish i had what ever kind of splitter he has. One that splits 90 27-32" oak rounds in 2.5 hours. Ya right!:monkey: Oh and plywood??? I hope he wasn't thinking I was going to shuffle plywood piece by piece for 50 yds??!!

Thanks Again Guys


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## banshee67 (May 26, 2010)

sounds like the guy is a little crazy
did you find him on craigslist you said?
post up the pics, lets see this stack of 30" rounds that youre gona split in 3 hours


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## cassandrasdaddy (May 26, 2010)

*some clients*

are worth walking away from
last time i didn't when i knew inside i should it cost me 20 k before it was all over plus what i paid in salaries and equip


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## jimdad07 (May 26, 2010)

Sounds like someone who has never touched a stick of fire wood in their lives.


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## Pain Cow (May 26, 2010)

cassandrasdaddy said:


> are worth walking away from
> last time i didn't when i knew inside i should it cost me 20 k before it was all over plus what i paid in salaries and equip



^very true. The second a customer starts making bizarre demands or suggestions as to how they want a job to be done, I inform them how their demands invariably make the job more complicated and time consuming for little or no reason. Some people genuinely think they have helpful ideas for you. They usually don't. Some people are control freaks that happen to be illogical at the same time. You really have to weed the illogical control freaks out right off the bat. I usually arrive on a job, the customer tells me what needs done, then I give them a price. The way I look at it, that's where their input ends as long as I've completed the job. I describe what's involved to complete the job after they've made their strange ideas of how they "think" the best method of completion should go.
I am polite, gently point out how say, it's not feasable to lay plywood down as I drive across the lawn, then provide an alternative. Such as waiting until the ground is dry. Don't hesitate to give irrational customers a reminder now and then of your overhead costs, how labor intensive it is, and that you know what you're doing. Hopefully they'll calm down and go watch judge judy #### and leave you alone as you work.


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## STLfirewood (May 26, 2010)

Git-R-Split said:


> Hahhhah - I wish i had what ever kind of splitter he has. One that splits 90 27-32" oak rounds in 2.5 hours. Ya right!:monkey: Oh and plywood??? I hope he wasn't thinking I was going to shuffle plywood piece by piece for 50 yds??!!
> 
> Thanks Again Guys



I have one it's called a Super Splitter. I get little jobs like this here and there. I tell them to let me do it on a non busy day and I shoot them a decent price. I wait till I'm headed to that area and double it up with another small job. Don't waiver off your price. You can go broke sitting at home on the couch now reason to work hard to do it. A lot of people work at lot cheaper if they can get paid today. If you can hold off and prepare wood for the winter you'll be money ahead. Having a bunch of seasoned wood for the winter is like a savings account.

Scott

Scott


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## 1harlowr (May 26, 2010)

If his numbers are accurate, a little math says this will be about 4.6 cords of wood. If you do the job for for $500, he's paying about $100 per cord. I'd let him split it himself before I'd take less than $500. 
If he doesn't want you to back the splitter through the yard, he's going to want more things like no bark and no bare spots where you've split all day. If you do the job, make sure it is understood up front that you'll be splitting in a single spot and he cleans the bark up.


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## gwiley (May 26, 2010)

Git-R-Split said:


> Toh and Ill have to walk a 500 lb splitter 50 yds through grass. Here is the email -
> 
> "



Sounds like you have a lot of details to work through that make this job dicey, but let me offer a little help for one item.

I added a 1 7/8" ball to my lawn tractor so that I could pull stuff like that (the skid steer isn't allowed on "lawn"). A lawn tractor can be pulled on a light trailer, might be worth trailering both the splitter and lawn tractor. I have seen splitters disintegrate due to road vibration - they are not typically built to handle much road time.


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## BlueRidgeMark (May 26, 2010)

Git-R-Split said:


> Thanks to everyone who responded (very impressed with the amount of responses in a short time..... I appreciate it!) But I decided to play it safe and charge him $500 flat fee





Flat fee is the riskiest proposition. Per hour is the safest.


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## blackdogon57 (May 26, 2010)

hate to be negative but i have a feeling your customer is going to be a serious pain in the butt and there will be some sort od dispute. Please keep us posted on how things work out. I hope I am wrong and it works out well for you.


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## indiansprings (May 26, 2010)

With his attitude and demands, I would simply pass. Life is too short to deal with individuals like him. No telling what he'll want once you get there.
Let him try to find someone else. If you have to do it for the cash, I would definetly have some type of *writtenagreement with the guy, one that cleary states what work you will perform and limits your liability for property damaged, tracks in lawn, debris left from splitting etc. as this guy sounds like he could be trouble.*


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## CRThomas (Dec 10, 2011)

Git-R-Split said:


> Hi, I am new to this site but have found it to be a great help in starting a firewood business. I have been selling firewood (small scale while in high school) for the last few years. About five months ago a buddy and I decided to go big or go home. We rented a big lot and had tree services drop off loads to cut and split. We filled the lot and now we are just waiting on calls  Summer sales have been slow as expected,,, but I was still looking for a way to make some money back before I go back to school in the fall. Bought a new 361, used 460, and new/ used Huskee 20 ton  (Spent lots but im VERRY HAPPY) Anyways I posted an add on Craigslist advertising a splitting and stacking service. I have had good luck so far, lots of little easy jobs for quick money. But I have not yet worked out a system for estimates and what to charge. I got his email today
> 
> I recently had two oaks cut down into 14" long pieces. The first was 27 inches round at the base and has about 40 round pieces. The second was 32 inches round at the base and has about 50 pieces. I am interested in having the logs split and stacked in place.
> 
> ...



I have the same service but I do this if it is cut to 16 to 18 inch pieces. We split 50 / 50
If we have to saw into pieces and split we get 2 out of three rank.


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## CRThomas (Dec 10, 2011)

*Info*

This is just a idea to add to your business I sell bulk firewood for $50.00 a rank because my pardoner likes to. I sell bundles the out come. He gets $50.00 a rank I get $150.00 dollars a rank. You might want to add this to your business. Just an idea. But you have to have those kind of customers. People who buy bulk buy for heat. Bundle buyers buy for looks. In a town of 32000 I stay busy as I want to be. My pardoner also stays busy with bulk. Later


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## lon (Dec 10, 2011)

Lots of great advice. After reading the customers response to you, I could not run fast enough to get away from this guy and his job.


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