# Removing trees around power lines



## Treecutr (Jan 28, 2010)

I'm curious what you guys do. In Ma, or in my area, we have to have Electric company disconnect power at weather head, and lay cable on ground, or hang it on pole while work is done. Then they put it back. The HUGE problem is waiting for them. They tell you to schedule it 5 days out, but in the 6-8 times I have requested them, they NEVER show, and I either work around the wires, or have to wait. How many of you just work around them, and or what other options do you have. I have a fairly good sized job to do, but lines are against almost everyone of the 6 trees coming down. I am an electrician by weekday, and can take them down myself and safe them off ( illegal, and have never done it for tree removal ) And the HO wants the Electric company to do it anyways, as they have a problem with the line anyways. I don't want to wait 2-3 weeks to start this job ( I have my military obligations that are in the way too, national guard. ) not to babble, but suggestions, or anyone in western ma have a connection that can get me an in to get it down on my schedule, and the homeowners schedule????


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## tree md (Jan 28, 2010)

I have never had a problem having them show up here. I have actually had them show up on the same day that I called but this is OK not MA. A lot less population density here and they don't have nearly the amount of customers to service. Here they would rather come out and take them down than have someone tear one down and possible have a prolonged outage.

I will work around them when possible but drop them if I have any reservations. I can be hell on the utilities... Never hit a house in 20 years of service but I have taken a few lines out before... :monkey:


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## Treecutr (Jan 28, 2010)

I'm pretty sure its western ma electric just being lazy. I did a huge pine in Hadley Ma, about 45 minutes away. They have their own power company. Called and saked when they could come, they said 15 miuntes. They showed up and had them down in about 20 minutes. I called when done, there were there in like 5 minutes, awesome. Whats do they nail you for when you rip the power lines down?? I've never hit anythings other than a couple cinder blocks that were under so much grass I didn't know they were theere


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## Golf (Jan 28, 2010)

The last time I did a removal around the Power Line was a single phase primary that carried 27kv. I had the Hydro company come in for a grounding, meaning they shut the power off for us. Other lines such as secondary or service lines, I would not be bothered with Hydro. I would suggest that you wait and have them do it. No point in messing around with hydro when it comes to primary lines.


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## tree md (Jan 28, 2010)

Treecutr said:


> I'm pretty sure its western ma electric just being lazy. I did a huge pine in Hadley Ma, about 45 minutes away. They have their own power company. Called and saked when they could come, they said 15 miuntes. They showed up and had them down in about 20 minutes. I called when done, there were there in like 5 minutes, awesome. Whats do they nail you for when you rip the power lines down?? I've never hit anythings other than a couple cinder blocks that were under so much grass I didn't know they were theere



I have hit service drops maybe 6 times in 20 years hard enough to do anything to them. Some telephone, some cable and some electric. Only ever had to have anything reconnected two times and it was a cable and electric drop at the same location (both happened at the same time). The cable guy said that they were supposed to charge a $30 reconnect fee but he waived it. Power company did not charge a thing but the electrician charged about $250 to replace the weather head. I took another tree down for the lady and knocked $30 off of my initial bill to pay for it.

Other than that, all I've had to do is screw connection plates back into the wood trim a time or two.


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## Mikecutstrees (Jan 28, 2010)

Only a few times have I had the power taken down. Once it was a big maple that I could flop if the power was taken down, the other ones it was just worth it monitarily to have it taken down to make the job easier. Usually we just work around it...... Mike


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## tree md (Jan 28, 2010)

Mikecutstrees said:


> Only a few times have I had the power taken down. Once it was a big maple that I could flop if the power was taken down, the other ones it was just worth it monitarily to have it taken down to make the job easier. Usually we just work around it...... Mike



They charge you to drop lines where you live?

I have them dropped most times for crane access.


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## Mikecutstrees (Jan 28, 2010)

I make it the homeowners responsibility. They pay and that makes the job cheaper/ easier for us..... Mike


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## Treecutr (Jan 28, 2010)

Several of these trees are in contact with the lines about 12' off the ground, in the heart of the tree. If there was 5-10 feet it would be easier. I will do what I can ahead of time with them up, then do rest when they make time for a paying customer who helps keep them in business.


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## Treecutr (Jan 28, 2010)

Several of these trees are in contact with the lines about 12' off the ground, in the heart of the tree. If there was 5-10 feet it would be easier. I will do what I can ahead of time with them up, then do rest when they make time for a paying customer who helps keep them in business. I have seen their trucks in the neighborhood 3 times since I first called to have them check the break in the neutral at this house too.


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## RacerX (Jan 28, 2010)

You can do what Mike suggests and let it be the homeowner's problem or you could hire another electrician to take it down and reinstall it. If there's a problem with the POCO it would become his problem.


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## tree md (Jan 28, 2010)

The power Co here charges nothing to disconnect and roll the line up to the pole. Never lived or worked where they would charge to do so. I imagine I would have the HO handle it as well if they did charge. 

Like I said, they would rather do a disconnect than a repair here.

If I can save some time or rope work by having one dropped I'll usually opt for that. And I most always have them dropped when I am doing crane work and they are in the way.


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## Treecutr (Jan 29, 2010)

Theya don't charge, just take too long to get there. HO has called in the proble with the line thats seperate from need to remove for trees. I have also called for trees, no return calls on scheduling the disconnect/reconnect. Gonna keep on em. I'm sure it will all work out.


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## Wishie22 (Jan 29, 2010)

I would wait till the power company removes the lines. 

If the trees are currently touching and swaying like today, the insulation could be compromised.

I would express that concern to the power company when you make the call they will be there mighty quick. Have the homeowner call tell them the trees are have been rubbing the lines (maybe the lights are flickering as the wind is howling) and he has a tree service scheduled to remove the trees. They would like the power line to be inspected for damage at that time. Speak to a supervisor and mention how they haven't come out and someone mentioned the DPUC may need to be contacted if the issue doesn't get resolved.

First moved into my current house the cable installer was almost electrocuted. Tree branch had rubbed through the power line so much that the neutral was compromised. When he connected the cable line, everything grounded through the cable line. Took out almost all my appliances and the house. House is set up with several surge protections (has a lightning protection system), which are only good for initial surge not multiple.

We took a tree off a house last wind storm, one leader broke on house. After removing the lead off the house it was getting dark. As we were explaining to the customer that, we will be back in the morning to finish. She asked if we hit or the tree hit any power lines or anything, power seemed low and pulsing. No, power line was underground, box at road on other side of house were the fuse-box is (took a look at everything). Advised her to contact the power company, see if it was a local issue or isolated to her place. The next morning the dirt was all disturbed and she had full power. Said they were there most of the night replacing the lines, water issue.

It is your life, be safe.


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## lxt (Jan 29, 2010)

If its free? Wait....for the power company! I have never had to request a line drop yet, hell even when I worked for the utility I didnt get any aide, they wouldnt rubber the lines up or disconnect.

The cost here is $325-$350 not sure & im just going by when I had a new service put in my house???

I would say if you have no Line clearance exp., leave it untill they show up, being an electrician dont mean squat!!! do it the safe way, military dont like their men fried!!

Be safe, Take Care!!!!


LXT...........


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## VINIFIREWOOD (Jan 29, 2010)

Treecutr said:


> I'm curious what you guys do. In Ma, or in my area, we have to have Electric company disconnect power at weather head, and lay cable on ground, or hang it on pole while work is done. Then they put it back. The HUGE problem is waiting for them. They tell you to schedule it 5 days out, but in the 6-8 times I have requested them, they NEVER show, and I either work around the wires, or have to wait. How many of you just work around them, and or what other options do you have. I have a fairly good sized job to do, but lines are against almost everyone of the 6 trees coming down. I am an electrician by weekday, and can take them down myself and safe them off ( illegal, and have never done it for tree removal ) And the HO wants the Electric company to do it anyways, as they have a problem with the line anyways. I don't want to wait 2-3 weeks to start this job ( I have my military obligations that are in the way too, national guard. ) not to babble, but suggestions, or anyone in western ma have a connection that can get me an in to get it down on my schedule, and the homeowners schedule????



Around here the power co won't move the wires for someone else to do the work. They figure the tree is in thier line so its thier job to take care of the tree and if someone else cuts it down then its taking work away from thier guys. But getting them to come take care of it is still like pulling teeth.


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## Treecutr (Jan 29, 2010)

Well had a very rude phone chat with the guy today who sets up the take downs. He called back, I missed his call. his message seemed a little rude in tone, and it sounded as though he slammed phone down. So I call back, leave message for 3rd time. He calls back and says this is so and so with Western Ma Elec, what can he do for me. I start to explain that I tree removal and whats going on ... he cuts me off and say " Cut the BullS(*&, and tell me what you need!!" I was pretty csught off guard, and was silent for a moment. I said, Ok I need lines down and back up 2 days in a row. he replies " whats the FN work order number ?" I said I don't have one, as I was told to call him to set it up. He said he can't untill I schedule it with another dept. He asks if I have a pencil. I tell him now I'm driving and on cell phone, he laughs in that irritated tone, like he saying you're kidding me. I lost it. I told him that he was completley unprofessional, and offensive whith the swearing. ( I swear to no end, but NOT to a paying customer ) Told him I'd go another route and report his attitude, and hung up. It was like I was inconviencing him by asking him to do his job. I later discover unfortunately due to WMECO being the only game in town, that I will probably still have to deal with this lowlife. I did some of the removal today, stuff away from lines, but not much of that left.


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## tree md (Jan 29, 2010)

Treecutr said:


> Well had a very rude phone chat with the guy today who sets up the take downs. He called back, I missed his call. his message seemed a little rude in tone, and it sounded as though he slammed phone down. So I call back, leave message for 3rd time. He calls back and says this is so and so with Western Ma Elec, what can he do for me. I start to explain that I tree removal and whats going on ... he cuts me off and say " Cut the BullS(*&, and tell me what you need!!" I was pretty csught off guard, and was silent for a moment. I said, Ok I need lines down and back up 2 days in a row. he replies " whats the FN work order number ?" I said I don't have one, as I was told to call him to set it up. He said he can't untill I schedule it with another dept. He asks if I have a pencil. I tell him now I'm driving and on cell phone, he laughs in that irritated tone, like he saying you're kidding me. I lost it. I told him that he was completley unprofessional, and offensive whith the swearing. ( I swear to no end, but NOT to a paying customer ) Told him I'd go another route and report his attitude, and hung up. It was like I was inconviencing him by asking him to do his job. I later discover unfortunately due to WMECO being the only game in town, that I will probably still have to deal with this lowlife. I did some of the removal today, stuff away from lines, but not much of that left.



Here's the deal: Dealing with power Co's is like dealing with a governmental bureaucracy. Sometimes you have to find creative ways of maneuvering around obstacles to get what you want.

I had three large removals to do with a crane a couple of years ago and had to have the line dropped to get the work done. I can tell you when you are scheduling a 64 ton crane for the day it could be very costly if you are held up by the power co. and have to reschedule. I happen to have one of the head haunchos for a client in the same neighborhood when I did that large job. I went to his house one evening and talked to him and told him what the deal was with the crane job. I told him it could be very costly if the power co did not show up when scheduled. He gave me a number of another hauncho to call and said to tell him that he said to call. It didn't hurt that I brought a load of Pecan for smoking to said first hauncho that he had requested a month earlier when I pruned his tree. 

Where there's a will there's a way. You just have to get creative and figure it out.


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## Rftreeman (Jan 29, 2010)

I just work around it, that was my job for 21 years....


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## briggstwiggs (Jan 30, 2010)

let me tell you what happened to me I was in a large oak along with some power lines that were about 15 feet away plenty of distance to get the tree down safley. I thought. I was taking a large limb off over the house we had to hinge the limb around and down at the same time told the groundy the plan o about three times what the plan was thought he was on the same page that is why i told him three times just to make shure but he was older and knew more i guess. but anyways I cut the limb and he just let the limb hinge right around into the lines he didnt let it down at all. He got knocked on his ass. I seen what was coming and shot down on my rope as fast as I could without touching the tree. The worst part was the finger was pointed at me when osha came out told me that if I were to hit the lines again 10,000 dollar fine and the mall that lost power for an hour wasn't happy either. just make shure that you trust your groundy and knows what he is doing the best groundies are ones that know what your doing before you do it I had told my boss about 4 or 5 times I didnt want this guy roping for me he never listens and look what happen. It is a good thing no one was hurt really bad. I was all shucken up and boss still made me finish that day 

always have a good roper when working around power lines


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## dukntz (Jan 30, 2010)

Aside from being a part-time arborist, I am a full-time troubleshooter for a large midwest electric utility. Our dept. gets all the service drop orders. Sometimes when I show up for an drop I see the guys dont have a bucket and if they are doing a removal and I can get my truck to it I will spend a half hour and top it for them rather than dropping the service and having to come back. It's a win-win. What pisses me off is when the contractor calls for one service drop and I show up and he wants 3 services down, and he never talked to the other homeowners. That's when I get nasty and tell him he needs to reschedule.
I get quite a few wire-down calls and when I find a HO who inadvertently caught his service, I wont charge him. It's the guy who was trying to take down a large dead elm, had his ladder set up in the bed of his pickup so it would reach, was using an electric saws-all, and a garden hose for a rope, that I file an accident report and he gets the bill! On top of that he was so drunk he could hardly stand! And he was going to go back up the ladder till I informed the HO he just caused almost $1000 damage to the 2 service pipes and meter sockets he destroyed. Wish I had my camera that day!


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## Treecutr (Jan 30, 2010)

I don't think you can even see the lines here, but they run along the trunk against a couple tree, and betewwn the rest, maybe 15' up at most. All the stuff I am pretty sure I can do with them up is hanging out away from them. I am very confident that none of the limbs will hit them on the way down. My concern is the wires touching trees, and conducting electricity into the trees, and me getting nailed when I spike in or cut. I intend to get above the lines by using my climb line farther out on big limbs, get 10' or more above, then spike up rest of way. ( trees that aren't coming down I obviously won't spike ). The tree leaning/curving to the right is the one thats in contact the most. If you look, you can see wire. I have metered the homeowners panel in house, and all voltages are normal, so I would say wires are not shorting to trees. HO has no electrical issues, no flickering, etc... I removed 1/2 the tree in the foreground with the big Y crotch. Gonna work around what I know I can. I will post before/after pics as I go. Still don't know tree type yet. I stinks when split though, nast.

View attachment 123476


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## JeffL (Jan 30, 2010)

Which side of the trees does the wire run on in that pic? If they run on the left, on the backside, just toss a throwline over them and pull them back away from the tree and tie it off to something, problem solved!


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## rob b (Jan 30, 2010)

service wire is nothing just dont touch it any primary 2' 4" is our spec as a line guy we dont really worry about service wires if its a three wire watch they dont slap together. if you dont feel comfortable get some one else to do it


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## ddhlakebound (Jan 30, 2010)

briggstwiggs said:


> let me tell you what happened to me I was in a large oak along with some power lines that were about 15 feet away plenty of distance to get the tree down safley. I thought. I was taking a large limb off over the house we had to hinge the limb around and down at the same time told the groundy the plan o about three times what the plan was thought he was on the same page that is why i told him three times just to make shure but he was older and knew more i guess. but anyways I cut the limb and he just let the limb hinge right around into the lines he didnt let it down at all. He got knocked on his ass. I seen what was coming and shot down on my rope as fast as I could without touching the tree. The worst part was the finger was pointed at me when osha came out told me that if I were to hit the lines again 10,000 dollar fine and the mall that lost power for an hour wasn't happy either. just make shure that you trust your groundy and knows what he is doing the best groundies are ones that know what your doing before you do it I had told my boss about 4 or 5 times I didnt want this guy roping for me he never listens and look what happen. It is a good thing no one was hurt really bad. I was all shucken up and boss still made me finish that day
> 
> always have a good roper when working around power lines



Too many men have died because they put themselves in the position that if the rope man does not execute properly the climbers life is in danger. 

If you know you've got a questionable rope man below, and you go ahead with the cut, aren't you the guy osha should be coming to see (along w/ the owner)?

Seems it wouldn't have been too much trouble to take a smaller piece or tie on a tag line to control the swing from the ground (or even from the tree w/ a redirect)

Not trying to hack on you, and I'm glad nobody was seriously hurt, it's just that too many times we fly by the seat of our pants, and sometimes get bit. I've done it myself. 

As climbers, putting our lives in the hands of our groundies at times, we live longest if we devise a plan that keeps us alive even if someone else screws up. 

It's always good to have alot of foresight working around power lines.


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## dukntz (Jan 30, 2010)

Not sure about other states or utilities, but we drop all secondary services for tree trimming, roofing, siding etc. free of charge, as well as trim trees away from primary voltages and secondary mains. More people are killed by 120 volts than all other voltages combined. Don't take the chance, call and get it dropped or request they trim it for you to safely remove the rest.


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## Industry (Jan 31, 2010)

Are you Line Clearance Qualified? If not, Minimum Approach Distance is 10ft. 

The Linemen here will do service drops for free. Better than re-connecting a downed line.


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## Treecutr (Jan 31, 2010)

I did about a 3rd of the job today without the lines down, just stayed away from them. there really only 1 tree they are touching. I did discover today that both phases have not only the insulation rubbed off, but the wires themselves are rubbed thinner too. Told HO to call it in as emergency Monday to see if they would come out Tuesday. If so, I'll finish it while they have line down to replace them. I'm definetly colser than 10' when climbing up the trees not in contact, I just work past them on back side of tree to increase distance, get above them, then no issues. It was a very productive partial day of work on it. My chipper is down, so were are hauling brush to a big pile to my house ( only 2 house up ) will just spend a day chipping all I have there, and my ground guy wants ALL the chips, so win win I guess. Included pic of wire issues. You can only see 1 rubbed wire, the other is against the tree. also a before and after of start and end of day. If anyone gives a....

View attachment 123648


View attachment 123650


View attachment 123651


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## dukntz (Feb 1, 2010)

"I just work past them on back side of tree to increase distance, get above them, then no issues. "

No issues till you drop a branch on it and it pulls the house knob out and down comes the service pipe, arcing and burning, breaking the meter clips in the socket and burning open the neutral and possibly damaging half the homeowners electronic equipment from low or high voltage. $850 to $??? I suppose your insurance will cover it. ONCE. Then they raise your premium or drop you. 
Or the service could fall down and energize a fence and kill some little kid 3 houses down playing in the back yard! I know these are all highly unlikely scenarios, but the what-if's are a big consideration when you cowboy around live electrics lines that the utility will take down for free. Is it really worth it?

not trying to bust your balls man, just giving you something to think about........


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## outofmytree (Feb 2, 2010)

JeffL said:


> Which side of the trees does the wire run on in that pic? If they run on the left, on the backside, just toss a throwline over them and pull them back away from the tree and tie it off to something, problem solved!



Please tell me you aint serious. Surely you dont pull power lines by rope! :jawdrop:


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## clearance (Feb 2, 2010)

outofmytree said:


> Please tell me you aint serious. Surely you dont pull power lines by rope! :jawdrop:



He is talking about service wires. Not high voltage.Sevice drops are usauly two somewhat insulated 120 v wires wrapped around a bare neutral.


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## JeffL (Feb 2, 2010)

No ones ever gotten a bad bounce with a throwball and ended up with their throwline draped over a 7k or 14k line? Puh-lease. What do you do? Just leave it there and call it a day?

A clean, dry throwline over a 120 service drop, no problem.


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## lxt (Feb 2, 2010)

outofmytree said:


> Please tell me you aint serious. Surely you dont pull power lines by rope! :jawdrop:



I have done ROW`s were the undergrowth (now trees) has grown through the phases 4kv (non maintained circuit) to the point were you would have to climb up between the phases & blow tops out over the primary/nuetral.

One thing we would do was throw a 3strand over nuetral or in some instances the primary to pull it away from the climber during climb, then pull that phase close to the base of the same tree so it was easier to jump the top!!! Power company might give you an outage once or twice...but there were times when we would run into this sorta thing several times a week!



LXT............ one should be Line Clearance certified before trimming round power!!


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## Treecutr (Feb 2, 2010)

dukntz said:


> "I just work past them on back side of tree to increase distance, get above them, then no issues. "
> 
> No issues till you drop a branch on it and it pulls the house knob out and down comes the service pipe, arcing and burning, breaking the meter clips in the socket and burning open the neutral and possibly damaging half the homeowners electronic equipment from low or high voltage. $850 to $??? I suppose your insurance will cover it. ONCE. Then they raise your premium or drop you.
> Or the service could fall down and energize a fence and kill some little kid 3 houses down playing in the back yard! I know these are all highly unlikely scenarios, but the what-if's are a big consideration when you cowboy around live electrics lines that the utility will take down for free. Is it really worth it?
> ...



The wires are WELL out of the line of fire from what I'm dropping. I would have had to go out of my way to hit them. The trees go up and curve way over to one side or the other, so the limbs are a straight freefall to frozen front yard. Once I got to where lines are too close, I stopped, and moved to next one. Concetrating on getting all the work I know I can do with wires still up so when they are down, I'll be able to finish job. Chipping away it it here and there, after my day job.I am not playing around with it. Power company will be there 9am Thursday to take it down and repair it. Then they are going to work with me on thime I need it down for.


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## outofmytree (Feb 3, 2010)

clearance said:


> He is talking about service wires. Not high voltage.Sevice drops are usauly two somewhat insulated 120 v wires wrapped around a bare neutral.



My bad. That we do ourselves on occasion. I had an image of hv, rope and a humid day. You get the picture.


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## outofmytree (Feb 3, 2010)

JeffL said:


> No ones ever gotten a bad bounce with a throwball and ended up with their throwline draped over a 7k or 14k line? Puh-lease. What do you do? Just leave it there and call it a day?
> 
> A clean, dry throwline over a 120 service drop, no problem.



Never done it. One of the first things I do is look for power line location and alter my throw accordingly. Or more often, break out the bigshot. A little forward planning + a little fear + a little luck = no lines over power lines to date. Touch wood.


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## outofmytree (Feb 3, 2010)

lxt said:


> I have done ROW`s were the undergrowth (now trees) has grown through the phases 4kv (non maintained circuit) to the point were you would have to climb up between the phases & blow tops out over the primary/nuetral.
> 
> One thing we would do was throw a 3strand over nuetral or in some instances the primary to pull it away from the climber during climb, then pull that phase close to the base of the same tree so it was easier to jump the top!!! Power company might give you an outage once or twice...but there were times when we would run into this sorta thing several times a week!
> 
> ...



When you do your Western Power line clearance ticket over here they have some ghastly videos of the effects of rope over power lines. Was enough to convince me to do it a better way.


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## ddhlakebound (Feb 3, 2010)

JeffL said:


> No ones ever gotten a bad bounce with a throwball and ended up with their throwline draped over a 7k or 14k line? Puh-lease. What do you do? Just leave it there and call it a day?
> 
> A clean, dry throwline over a 120 service drop, no problem.



I've seen it once. I didn't throw it, and I didn't pull it off the 7.6kV. It was a clean dry throwline, and didn't cause a problem. But a bit of dirt or humidity could very easily have been a whole 'nutha story.


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