# Cordless Chainsaws and Outdoor Power Equipment



## Philbert (Jul 28, 2011)

Sorry if this has been posted already.

Try to figure out the German, and click on the videos on the right hand side. 
Looks pretty cool for trimming. Note the auxiliary belt pack for longer cutting (still could run out of bar oil while up in the tree).

Die neue STIHL Akku-Motorsäge MSA 160 C-BQ | STIHL

Philbert


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## jmeritt (Jul 28, 2011)

open the link n google chrome and it will translate the german for ya


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## logging22 (Jul 28, 2011)

Who is gonna be the first to mod this one?


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## Philbert (Jul 29, 2011)

logging22 said:


> Who is gonna be the first to mod this one?


 
What are you going to do - mount a capacitor on it for bursts of cutting power? Get some alligator clips and hook it up to line voltage when doing utility clearance?


OK - I was lazy - looks like they sell it in English also in the UK!

MSA 160 C-BQ - Innovative new cordless chain saw

Edit: The UK site does not have the cool videos that the German site does.

Philbert


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## logging22 (Jul 29, 2011)

Philbert said:


> What are you going to do - mount a capacitor on it for bursts of cutting power? Get some alligator clips and hook it up to line voltage when doing utility clearance?
> 
> 
> OK - I was lazy - looks like they sell it in English also in the UK!
> ...


 
You know. Dual batteries. Extra long power cord. Maybe nuke fuel cells. Who knows.:msp_rolleyes:


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## bcorradi (Jul 29, 2011)

My good friend in Mississippi who owns a stihl dealership, tried one out when he was on a German Stihl trip last winter. He was pretty impressed with it and he thinks he is going to end up buying one for himself.


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## Philbert (Jul 29, 2011)

logging22 said:


> You know. Dual batteries. Extra long power cord.


 
Well . . . you could take 3 motorcycle batteries into the woods with you, or if you own a Toyota Prius . . . . 
The ham radio guys are always doing creative things with power supplies and they might have fun with this.

Seriously, it would be interesting to hear if any tree guys find this useful as a climbing saw for light trimming. Quieter, no rope to pull, not a top handle, uses 1/4" chain, 4.9 kg (10.8#) with larger battery. I'll bet the ice carvers will love it.

$500 - $960 (converted to $US) depending upon the battery and charger - not inexpensive.

Philbert


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## logging22 (Jul 29, 2011)

Philbert said:


> Well . . . you could take 3 motorcycle batteries into the woods with you, or if you own a Toyota Prius . . . .
> The ham radio guys are always doing creative things with power supplies and they might have fun with this.
> 
> Seriously, it would be interesting to hear if any tree guys find this useful as a climbing saw for light trimming. Quieter, no rope to pull, not a top handle, uses 1/4" chain, 4.9 kg (10.8#) with larger battery. I'll bet the ice carvers will love it.
> ...


 
500-960?? Ouch. That hurts.


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## bcorradi (Jul 29, 2011)

I'd think there would be a market for it for timber frame and log home builders also.


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## Philbert (Jul 29, 2011)

logging22 said:


> 500-960?? Ouch. That hurts.


 
It's cordless. No cashless. Anything with the '$TIHL' name on it is $$$. 

You want cheap, buy this (below) at a famous, non-sponsor, on-line book store for $83. 

Philbert


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## Philbert (Jul 29, 2011)

bcorradi said:


> I'd think there would be a market for it for timber frame and log home builders also.


 
The videos on the German site show it being used for carpentry work.

Philbert


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## Dan_IN_MN (Jul 29, 2011)

Philbert said:


> The videos on the German site show it being used for carpentry work.
> 
> Philbert


 
Throw a PowerSharp on that thing!


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## dave k (Jul 29, 2011)

The saw is part of a family of new tools, hedge trimmer and leaf blower. I had a look at the hedge trimmer and it was a substantial peice of gear. There is even a battery powered lawnmower !


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## young (Jul 29, 2011)

dave k said:


> The saw is part of a family of new tools, hedge trimmer and leaf blower. I had a look at the hedge trimmer and it was a substantial peice of gear. There is even a battery powered lawnmower !


 
yea but i like the 2cycle engine noise hehehe:msp_thumbsup:


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## sawfun9 (Jul 29, 2011)

I wonder about it's sideways balance and if they'll come out with a gear drive version. Seriously though, noise can be an issue in town and battery technology is improving.


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## aiwnios (Jul 29, 2011)

*Previous thread on this...*


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## Philbert (Jul 29, 2011)

young said:


> yea but i like the 2cycle engine noise


 
Get an iPod and a WAV file.

Philbert


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## BloodOnTheIce (Jul 29, 2011)

logging22 said:


> 500-960?? Ouch. That hurts.



It will be much less than 500$, but you have to buy the battery and charger separately.

It will use 1/4" chain so it will cut very smooth.


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## Philbert (Jul 29, 2011)

aiwnios said:


> *Previous thread on this...*


 
Thanks for the link - 'Search' does not always find these similar threads.

Interesting to see the top handled Makita in there. And, as in this thread, the quick speculation about modding the saws.

Will be interesting to hear feedback from users.

Philbert


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## Philbert (Jul 29, 2011)

young said:


> yea but i like the 2cycle engine noise


 
Motorsägen Klingelton | STIHL

Philbert


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## Philbert (Jul 29, 2011)

Philbert said:


> $500 - $960 (converted to $US) depending upon the battery and charger


 


BloodOnTheIce said:


> It will be much less than 500$, but you have to buy the battery and charger separately.


 
Those were rough conversions from prices on the UK site, with the battery (2 options) and charger (2 options).

We hear a lot about the differences in pricing between different countries, so it will be interesting to see what they sell for in the US.

Philbert


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## Philbert (Aug 2, 2011)

I could not find info on the saw's RPMs, but one STIHL source quoted the chain speed as 12m/s (approximately 39 feet/second, or 2,340 feet per minute).

What are typical chain speeds for smaller, trimming saws, like a STIHL MS211 or MS 200?

Makita (corded) electric is spec'd at 2,600 feet per minute.
Makita 12v cordless is spec'd at 520 feet per minute.
Black & Decker did not list chain speeds for their 12 v or 20 v cordless saws. 

Philbert


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## Philbert (Aug 4, 2011)

OK - Oregon has released theirs.

Don't want to start a competing AS thread, so check it out on this one

http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/177700-4.htm#post3082937

Philbert


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## SkippyKtm (Aug 4, 2011)

bcorradi said:


> I'd think there would be a market for it for timber frame and log home builders also.


 
Nah, I'm doing a timber frame and have no desire to use a cordless saw for some of the deep plunge cuts in white oak I've done, I doubt an electric would have the grunt...

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i518.photobucket.com/albums/u349/skippyktm/2007-06-17e.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>


Although I could see a cordless being handy for roughing window openings!:hmm3grin2orange:


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## Trx250r180 (Aug 4, 2011)

SkippyKtm said:


> Nah, I'm doing a timber frame and have no desire to use a cordless saw for some of the deep plunge cuts in white oak I've done, I doubt an electric would have the grunt...
> 
> <a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i518.photobucket.com/albums/u349/skippyktm/2007-06-17e.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
> 
> ...


 
what size saw and chain do you use on the timbers so it doesnt splinter the wood ? all my saws have 3/8 chain so cant get a clean cut doing work like your doing or cutting fence posts


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## sloweather (Aug 4, 2011)

Hey, I have one of those, and so does Dad. It does OK within its limitations. I keep mine in the work basket on our Mule for light trimming and pruning. Dad uses his for cutting scraps for firewood at the local suburban sawmill.



Philbert said:


> It's cordless. No cashless. Anything with the '$TIHL' name on it is $$$.
> 
> You want cheap, buy this (below) at a famous, non-sponsor, on-line book store for $83.
> 
> Philbert


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## Battenkiller (Aug 4, 2011)

Philbert said:


> What are you going to do - mount a capacitor on it for bursts of cutting power? Get some alligator clips and hook it up to line voltage when doing utility clearance?



I had somebody mod my Dolkita electric by putting on a rim and drum from a 5100. I run it with a 9-pin rim... 50% increase in chain speed over the stock 6-tooth spur sprocket.

Anybody know the chain speed on that Stihl?

Edit: Oops... should have read all the posts above.


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## Philbert (Aug 4, 2011)

SkippyKtm said:


> e done, I doubt an electric would have the grunt...


 
Haven't tried any of the cordless, but can vouch for electrics.

This is an older article, but touches on the subject of chainsaws for construction.

Electric Chainsaws

Philbert


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## Philbert (Aug 18, 2011)

*Makita BUC250RD 36V Cordless li-ion Chainsaw*

YouTube video on the Makita top handle cordless chainsaw.

Makita BUC250RD 36V Cordless li-ion Chainsaw - YouTube

(worth it just for the accents)

Philbert


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## Philbert (Aug 18, 2011)

*Bosch AKE 30 Li Cordless Chainsaw*

Heres a couple on the Bosch one:


Bosch AKE 30 Li Cordless Chainsaw - Power Tool Spy - YouTube

BOSCH AKE 30 LI - YouTube


Philbert


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## Philbert (Aug 18, 2011)

*Oregon 40 Volt!*

Oregon PowerNow Max Cordless Battery-Powered Chainsaw - YouTube

OREGON PowerNow Tools 40V MAX Chainsaw Cutting Montage - YouTube

Philbert


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## Philbert (Sep 3, 2011)

*Tried It Today*

Tried a demo of the STIHL 36V cordless saw today at the State Fair. Had the larger battery and the 1/4" chain.

The saw is light, easy to handle, and easy to trigger. It is pretty quiet. I cut several cookies off of a 5" diameter birch log, including some though a knotty section.

The chain seems to run pretty slow. The saw cut the wood, but you have to be patient. It slowed down a bit in the knotty part. If you are a homeowner, or property maintenance guy, with occasional, light cutting, this might meet your needs. If you are used to a sharp chain on a professional saw, you will be disappointed.

Philbert


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## Philbert (Sep 3, 2011)

36V STIHL


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## zogger (Sep 3, 2011)

*Looks fair sized*



Philbert said:


> 36V STIHL


 
What size is that bar? Powerhead looks OK, guess it fits the bar. 

The Oregon PowerNow is 14 inch, 3/8ths low pro Powersharp, as shipped and provided. Yep, chain speed is not as fast as a gasser, but it still works OK.

For those that haven't seen it, I did a write up and review (still ongoing as I use it more) on the Oregon PowerNow cordless saw.

http://www.arboristsite.com/firewood-heating-wood-burning-equipment/179262.htm


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## Rudolf73 (Sep 3, 2011)

Philbert said:


> 36V STIHL


 
Mann, that is a huge bar Philbert! I sure you could have used a shorter bar to cut up that branch


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## Philbert (Sep 14, 2011)

*Link to More Reviews of Oregon 40 Volt Cordless Chainsaw*

This one got started in the Firewood Forum - rather than duplicating it, I will put a link here:

http://www.arboristsite.com/firewood-heating-wood-burning-equipment/179262.htm

Philbert


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## Philbert (Dec 16, 2011)

*Pricing*

Just saw it listed as $349.95 for the saw with a 12" bar, +$259.95 AP-160 (36V 4.5 Ah) battery pack, + $49.95 or $89.95 for the charger.

So $660 - $700 for a set up.

Philbert


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## Philbert (Apr 30, 2012)

*Rebate*

STIHL is offering a $100 rebate on their Li-ion tools, if anyone is interested:

STIHL Battery KombiSystem $100 Rebate – Happening Now | STIHL

http://www.stihlusa.com/STIHL-Battery-KombiSystem-Rebate-Form.pdf



> Just buy one STIHL Lithium-Ion battery and one STIHL Lithium-Ion unit from a participating Dealer between 4/1/12 – 9/30/12, and get a $100 mail in rebate.



Philbert


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## splitpost (Apr 30, 2012)

*aussie cattledog(catalogue)*




not worth it IMO


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## Philbert (Apr 30, 2012)

splitpost said:


> not worth it IMO



FYI -

Current US pricing is $350 for the saw w/ 12" bar, $260 for the higher capacity battery, and $50 - $90 depending which charger you choose. So $660 - $100 rebate = $550 + tax.

It still may not be worth it to you, but apparently, quite a bit less expensive here.

Philbert


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## Philbert (Sep 19, 2013)

Old thread. New info.

Got to 'try' a Makita 36 Volt saw today at a local tool show (got to turn it on, but not cut anything). has a 12 inch bar, and appeared to be running 3/8 low profile, narrow kerf, .043 chain - I guess to get the most out of the battery power.

(photos are uploading slow, so I will stick with the thumbnails for right now)

First impressions:
- very light
- well balanced
- top handled
- feels like it would cut more like the STIHL than the Oregon battery saws.

Will probably appeal to some arborists for a light, easy to start, in the tree saw for light trimming. List price is $599, which is quite a bit more than the Oregon (don't know what the STIHL saw is going for).

One cool feature is an adaptor that lets you use (2) 18 volt batteries in tandem, instead of the 36 volt battery: a big plus for someone already invested in Makita 18 volt tools. Don't know what the battery capacity is to compare it to the Oregon, STIHL, or other saws.

The Bosch rep said that their 36 volt battery saw is still not available in the US. Ryobi has some 36 volt *** in the aisles at The Home Depot, but I have not seen their saw yet.

Data sheet: MAKITA Industrial Power Tools - Tool Details - HCU02C1

Philbert


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## elanjoe (Sep 19, 2013)

dave k said:


> The saw is part of a family of new tools, hedge trimmer and leaf blower. I had a look at the hedge trimmer and it was a substantial peice of gear. There is even a battery powered lawnmower !



I have the hedge trimmer and will say without a doubt it is the strongest hedge trimmer stihl sells


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## Philbert (Sep 19, 2013)

elanjoe said:


> I have the hedge trimmer and will say without a doubt it is the strongest hedge trimmer stihl sells



I have the STIHL corded electric hedge trimmer. Powerful, well made tool. I have also been using the Oregon battery powered hedge trimmer, which works very well, but not as fast. However, it actually feels lighter than the corded tool - might be a balance thing.

Philbert


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## sawfun9 (Sep 19, 2013)

Wow, the stongest trimmer Stihl sells? Guess I'll have to dump my HS81R for a battery unit.


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## elanjoe (Sep 19, 2013)

sawfun9 said:


> Wow, the stongest trimmer Stihl sells? Guess I'll have to dump my HS81R for a battery unit.



I ran an 81 not more than two weeks ago and was not impressed , the 36v unit will cut green spruce limbs the size of a toonie like it is nothing !!!!


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## sawfun9 (Sep 19, 2013)

Neither was I impressed till I removed the limiter caps and retuned it. Now my FS81R is a very different machine. I'd say it gained at least 40% as I wanted to get rid of it before.


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## ohio andy (Sep 19, 2013)

I have a rechargeable weed whip from Stihl... the wife like to trim while I now bit doesn't like my FS 55. I will admit it is a very capable trimmer, so I would expect the chainsaw version to be as well.

We just have a 2 acre lot with lits of trees to trim around and it will go many trimmings on one charge. I bet we don't charge it fives times all 
Mowing season.


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## Philbert (Sep 21, 2013)

Better photos of the Makita (12" bars for reference):






I think that this saw will be popular, due to it's light weight and top handle (aside from it's high price).


Philbert


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## 1Alpha1 (Sep 21, 2013)

That wouldn't be any fun to run inside a garage at all. :msp_thumbdn:


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## Philbert (Jul 24, 2014)

Old thread - time to 'recharge'?

I did a search for 36 volt and 40 volt battery powered chainsaws (or ***) a month or two ago, and found the information below! This number has really jumped in the last 2 years. I did not include smaller (e.g. 18 volt) saws, as they are really in a separate class.

Organized alphabetically for reference. Some are brand names you know. Some are captive store brands. Some are not available (yet?) in the US, so I listed UK sites. Some appear to be off-shore manufacturers. A few look similar enough that they are probably re-branded clones.

Many are part of a 'system' with other outdoor power tools (string trimmers, hedge trimmers, etc.) that use the same batteries and chargers. A few do not list chainsaws or pole saws (yet); but this product mix is changing quickly, so they may be added soon.

As with anything else: _caveat emptor_!

Philbert

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Black & Decker http://www.blackanddecker.com/recharge/

Bosch (UK) http://www.bosch-garden.com/gb/en/garden-tools/garden-tools/cordless-chainsaws-199952.jsp

Core Outdoor Power http://coreoutdoorpower.com/

Craftsman http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_...400010000100675&aff=Y&PID=361116&AID=11042411

EcoproTools Inc http://www.ecoprotoolsusa.com/

EGO (56 volt!) http://egopowerplus.com/

Greenworks / Sunrise Tools http://www.greenworkstools.com/products/category/chainsaws

Greysen (off shore manufacturer?) http://greysenproducts.com/40-Volt-Chain-Saw-Powered-by-LG-Chem-Lithium-Battery-GP-CS.htm

Husqvarna (UK - Homeowner) http://www.husqvarna.com/uk/outther...series-professional-products-for-home-owners/

Husqvarna (UK - Professional) http://www.husqvarna.com/uk/products/battery-series/t536li-xp/

Kobalt http://www.kobalttools.com/products/outdoor/outdoor-power-equipment.html
http://www.lowes.com/Kobalt-40-Volt...weyrZ1z0wgez/pl?Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1#!

Makita http://www.makitatools.com/en-us/Modules/Tools/X2/HCU02ZX2Features.aspx

Oregon PowerNow Tools http://oregoncordless.com/products/

Ryobi http://www.ryobitools.com/

STIHL http://www.stihlusa.com/products/battery/

Yardworks (*can only find reviews; not a manufacturer’s website) http://reviews.canadiantire.ca/9045...ctric-chainsaw-12-a-16-in-reviews/reviews.htm


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## zogger (Jul 24, 2014)

The greenworks (and the oregon) have pretty good reviews on the big river trade site.

This is funny, my friend the local husky wrench is gonna get a batt saw for his GF, something easy to start, which those certainly are. I still recommended the oregon saw because of the built in powersharp. Little higher price over some of the others but that feature is wicked cool, IMO.

Hmm, need to start another can collection and save change for a 4 amp hour battery now.


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## Philbert (Jul 24, 2014)

Unless you are buying it for one season of use, or a as a 'throw-away' saw, I would suggest going with a brand where you can expect support and parts availability several years down the road. 

Bars and chains will probably always be available, but the battery formats are unique. And they are expensive to replace. Maybe a place like Batteries Plus can rebuild some of the battery packs if they become obsolete/ I don't think that they do the lithium-ion batteries now.

The other question is if you might want one or more of the other tools down the line (e.g. pole saw, hedge trimmer, string trimmer, etc.) that share the same batteries/chargers. Most of these are sold as a 'family' of ***.

Philbert


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## Philbert (Aug 29, 2014)

Saw the STIHL cordless, telescoping pole saw at the MN State Fair today. Shaft appears heavy duty. Motor appears to be at the saw end (unlike shaft drive pole saws). Around $550 + battery and charger?

There are 2 models of their conventional battery saws now: 160 and 200. They look similar, so I assume one has a larger motor. I would have thought that they would have made a top handle battery saw next.

Also saw a Toro 48V battery powered string trimmer. Rep said a chainsaw and other *** will follow.

Philbert


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## 7sleeper (Aug 30, 2014)

Just to complete your lineup Philbert

Hitachi CS36DL







http://www.hitachi-koki.com/equipment/products/li_ion_e/cs36dl/cs36dl.html

They also have a complete lineup of cordless outdoor equipment and a backpack battery for real long run time! 



7


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## big t double (Aug 30, 2014)

Philbert said:


> ........ I would have thought that they would have made a top handle battery saw next.
> 
> Also saw a Toro 48V battery powered string trimmer. Rep said a chainsaw and other *** will follow.
> 
> Philbert



msa160t is out there...just don't think its in the usa yet. I was at toro headquarters last year and they were in talks of the saw...asked our input and stuff. the consensus was eh.


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## zogger (Aug 30, 2014)

7sleeper said:


> Just to complete your lineup Philbert
> 
> Hitachi CS36DL
> 
> ...




It's cyborg robovoltman! heheheh

I like the backpack battery, the lighted bar oil tank, etc. Looks to be a winner on package combo deals. Oh, and the variable speed options, another good feature.

Well, depends on the price, but hitachi can and has made some good stuff in the past.


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## Philbert (Sep 15, 2014)

Chance to win an Oregon cordless hedge trimmer on FB- part of the *** 'family'

Philbert


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## leybold1 (Oct 27, 2014)

I have had the luck to test quite of few of the high voltage (36-56v) chainsaws to be able to actually measure their true output power, chains speed, battery impedance, etc. I was not concerned about actual cutting ability since that is so dependent on the chain and a fairly arbitrary measurement. I got involved in this because as part of my work I have built several cordless chainsaws (before any higher volt models were available) for specific scientific use and have been looking for "off the self" unit to use. About the only saw I have not seen yet is the Husqvarna 536 cordless (so far too much money) though I have been able to piece together some information on it. 

When I say true power output, it is a function of a couple of things. One is the internal impedances of the motor, electronics, and battery; the other is the "safety" limit built into the electronics. In all cases so far the internal safety limit of the electronics limits the power below the max efficiency point for the combination of motor/electronics/battery. The higher the efficiency to longer the given cut time for a set of batteries. Why do they limit the power to the motor? To protect the batteries and electronics. 

On the subject of brushless versus brushed motor, brushless wins hands down for power/weight/efficiency. With the proper setup, brushless motors can have a fairly broad 85% plus efficiency band. With brushed motors in these tools, you a lucky to even hit 85% peak efficiency, more likely in the mid 70's. Since the brushed motors are much less efficient, you have to use extra power to provide cooling to the motor. For example, the Makita 36v chainsaw uses a brushed motor and it consumes about 70 watts of power to cool itself. The Stihl MSA 160 brushless motor uses about 20 watts of power for cooling. Also, the brushless motors have a much lower impedance. The Stihl MSA motor has an internal resistance of 0.03 ohms. The Makita 36v chainsaw has an internal resistance of 0.31 ohms (one of the primary reasons for lower efficiency). The higher the resistance the higher the losses.

Another big issue is the impedance of the batteries. Higher impedances in the battery increase the self heating of the battery and drop the overall system efficiency. The big name brand companies use high discharge rate batteries with low internal impedance. Most of the cheap Chinese use higher capacity cells which have lower discharge rates and higher impedances. The companies that use the high discharge rate battery cells are Stihl, Makita, and surprisingly Ryobi. The EGO, Oregon, and Greenworks use higher capacity cells which have higher impedances which lead to more losses and battery self heating. On higher impedance cells, the manufacturers limit the current from the cells to prevent them from destroying themselves. Lower current means lower torque. So a good indicator of the discharge rate of the battery is the chain speed. The manufacturer trades lower chain speed to get more torque (speed times torque is power output) so you don't stall easily. 

For example, the EGO (chain speed about 1200 fpm) lithium cells can be discharges at 3 times their capacity (3C) safely. So the manufacturer limits the current output of the motor controller to 12 amps (3 times 4 amp-hr). So given that the battery voltage of the EGO is 48v (I know, the 56v is the max charge voltage), the max draw from the cells is about 600w. Give the losses in the batteries, controller and motor, the max power to the chain is only about 450 watts, or about 0.6 hp. 

In comparison, the Stihl and Ryobi brushless chainsaw batteries are high discharge rate (10C). Chain speed on both is 2000-2200 fpm. The electronics current limit on both kick in at about 25 amps (6C for a 4 amp-hr pack). So given they both have 37v battery packs (42 volt max charge voltage), they can both draw 970 watts from the batteries. With the lower impedance cells, the losses of the batteries is less so the max chain power delivered is close to 800 watts (about 1.05 hp) even though the battery voltage is less than the EGO. The efficiency at max power is close to 85%. It would actually peak at max efficiency of 90% at about 34 amps which is beyond the electronic limit of the controller. 

So what does this all mean? Higher chain speed seems to indicate a lower battery impedance which in turn indicates a higher efficiency/better quality. Don't bother with a brushed motor chainsaw due to the lower efficiency. The Makita 36v chainsaw is a nice durable, light saw but the max power chain output is only about 500w as I measure it and its max efficiency is only 70% due to the large amount of cooling and an high internal resistance of the motor. 

If I can figure how to do it, I can generate a table and put it in this discussion of chain speed, max power, etc. It appears that the real bargain chainsaw out there is the Ryobi 40v (actually 37v) brushless chainsaw. At $200 for the chainsaw with battery and charger it performs as well as the Stihl MSA 160. It uses a standard 3/8" Pico chain so you have a large selection of chains available. Originally the Ryobi came with a 4 amp-hr battery but now it seems to only come with the 2 amp-hr as standard. If you can live with the Ryobi brushless chainsaw not having a chain brake it is good buy.


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## zogger (Oct 27, 2014)

leybold1 said:


> I have had the luck to test quite of few of the high voltage (36-56v) chainsaws to be able to actually measure their true output power, chains speed, battery impedance, etc. I was not concerned about actual cutting ability since that is so dependent on the chain and a fairly arbitrary measurement. I got involved in this because as part of my work I have built several cordless chainsaws (before any higher volt models were available) for specific scientific use and have been looking for "off the self" unit to use. About the only saw I have not seen yet is the Husqvarna 536 cordless (so far too much money) though I have been able to piece together some information on it.
> 
> When I say true power output, it is a function of a couple of things. One is the internal impedances of the motor, electronics, and battery; the other is the "safety" limit built into the electronics. In all cases so far the internal safety limit of the electronics limits the power below the max efficiency point for the combination of motor/electronics/battery. The higher the efficiency to longer the given cut time for a set of batteries. Why do they limit the power to the motor? To protect the batteries and electronics.
> 
> ...



This is an excellent post!

I am not surprised at all with The Ryobi being a good deal and a good tool, they have been in the battery powered tool business for a long time now.


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## Philbert (Oct 27, 2014)

Welcome to AS!



leybold1 said:


> I have had the luck to test quite of few of the high voltage (36-56v) chainsaws to be able to actually measure their true output power, chains speed, battery impedance, etc. I was not concerned about actual cutting ability since that is so dependent on the chain and a fairly arbitrary measurement.



Thanks for the tech input. This is clearly important information for designers, engineers, marketing people, etc. It is also helpful and interesting as a potential consumer. I would love to see a spreadsheet of this info if you get around to it. You can see a partial list of products and models I compiled a few months back, about 10 posts up, but this is already out of date. STIHL already has a second model out, Oregon has announced a brushless version, Toro has announced a saw, and others keep showing up in magazines and on store shelves.

I spoke with a Ryobi rep almost a year ago in a local Home Depot about a 36 - 40 volt class chainsaw - he said that they were coming, but I have only seen Ryobi 40 volt string trimmers and hedge trimmers locally. I see them now on the HD website, but no one in the local stores seems to know anything about them, including availability. I hope that they are available soon to take a look at.

I do have to disagree about cutting ability being 'arbitrary' - any spec in a spreadsheet can be misleading by itself, and I have made the mistake in the past of trying to be 'too objective', ending up with a less satisfactory product. What matters most is how the saw cuts, and how it holds up in use. It is easy to compare objectively using standardized chains and test fixtures. Battery life in use is more important to me than calculated rates. There is also value in subjective testing, side-by-side, in similar conditions, recognizing that different end users have different needs and expectations.

The feel, balance, torque, response, and overall build quality of the saw are important to me. Some of that is clearly personal preference. I think that it is fair to consider all of this '36 - 56' volt *** as a class, but I want to test them individually in use; not just go by a spreadsheet or price tag.

Philbert


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## leybold1 (Oct 27, 2014)

I agree totally that balance, feel, build quality are personal choice and make the saw. I like the Makita saws for overall build quality though balance on the 36v models is somewhat off.

Power is a function of torque and chain speed. So for a given amount of power to the chain sprocket, you can have your choice of relationship between torque and chain speed (sprocket rpm). Most people's choice is as much of both as possible. That's why I went to great lengths to actually try and measure what the limitations of each model I could try. Luckily many people purchased these so I could try them out. The minimum chain speed most people I have talked to like is about 1500 fpm. Under 1000 fpm you begin to wonder if the tree is growing faster than you cut. If they cut power when you hit a few hundred watts out, then all the chain speed will not help because the chain will keep on jamming due to low torque limit.

For example, the EGO brushless chainsaw claims 56v. Actually battery voltage is more like 48v (14 cells in series). The battery voltage drops significantly under load due to the higher internal impedance of the lithium cell type (about 15 milliohms per cell). They also limit the max current from the battery due to lithium cell type (3C discharge rate) to 12 amps. They drop down the chain speed to keep the torque up. Poor performance results. They could have used $6 lithium cells instead of $2 ones and easily doubled the output current. Now we are talking the same power range as the Stihl MSA. 

I think cutting ability is arbitrary. Given two saws with the same chain fpm and same torque limit/response, if you put the same chain on both they should cut the same. You may have to balance the chainsaw differently or press down differently, but they will cut the wood at the same rate. 

My favorite cordless saw is my Makita UC3530A that I converted to a brushless cordless chainsaw. It uses slightly modified Dewalt 36v (actaully 33v) A123 LiFePO4 packs. The cells can be discharged at 30C (70 amps) continuously and have a very low cell impedance (3 milliohm when new). I ended up with a chain speed of 1800 fpm and the efficiency of the battery, motor controller, and motor hover at 90% from 0.5 hp to 2.5 hp out. I limit the peak current at 100 amps which works to almost 3.5 hp out. I did this 5 years ago and have been looking for an off the shelf replacement (it it time consuming to build the conversion, which I have done about a dozen). The Stihl and Ryobi 36v brushless chainsaws both appear to be good saws but limited in power due to the battery technology and safety margin needed for consumer products.

Hopefully I can get my hands on a Husqvarna 536 one of these days. 3500 fpm top chain speed. I might go out a get one and return it after testing but some of my testing definitely invalidates any warranty. A few chainsaws have catastrophically failed my testing (stopping chain at high load and full rpm, over discharging batteries, etc). 




Philbert said:


> Welcome to AS!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## leybold1 (Oct 29, 2014)

Okay, call me stupid. I have been doing my chain speed versus sprocket rpm wrong. I was wondering why the apparent chain speed seemed higher while cutting then my calculation when comparing saws. On a few chainsaws where I had both sprocket rpm and chain speed there was a factor of 2 error between specs and my calculation. I got it straight now. So here is my table of higher voltage chainsaws so far. I apologize for my previous errors. I have to throw out my previous ideas about the usability of the cheap Chinese import chainsaw. They Ryobi brushless chainsaw cut through the mesquite branch much faster than the Stihl MSA 160. I could not believe the Ryobi brushless chainspeed of 4500 ft/m but it appears real.


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## Philbert (Oct 29, 2014)

Thanks for all of your leg work and calculations. I have limited technical knowledge about motors and batteries - I had to look up brushless motors on line to get a general understanding of how they work. I get some of the general, performance differences between Ni-Cd, NiMH, and Li-ion batteries, but at some point, have to trust the manufacturers on the specifics, along with other quality issues. After a product has been out a while, we can look back and see how it performed/held up.

A few notes on your chain specifications. Chains that are 3/8 should be identified as 'low profile', since they really function as a separate pitch from full sized 3/8 chains. And the 3/8 low profile chains that are 0.043 gauge, are most likely low profile _and_ narrow kerf, which means a smaller 'bite' of wood, and less drain on the battery/motor. The Oregon CS250 comes equipped with 'PowerSharp' chain, which actually cut more aggressively than conventional 3/8 low profile, low kickback chains when I tried them in this saw. In most cases, an end user can substitute a different chain, assuming sprockets, etc., are readily available, with the understanding that chain pitch, type, sequence, etc., can also affect performance.

I would _LOVE_ to have a cordless GTG where users could try all of these combinations side-by-side. Folks who attended the recent GIE trade show in KY probably had the best chance for this.

Philbert


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## zemmo (Dec 18, 2014)

This is a great thread; I think I'm actually going to buy one of these cordless saws for limbing when I'm out cutting. It looks like the Ryobi really is a bargain; the kit is $200 at Home Despot. I think I'll pick one up next time I go to town. Unimaginable only a few years ago to think about doing even light work with a cordless chainsaw, what a crazy world. If anyone else is using the Ryobi (or the Makita, as I have 18V Makita tools and batteries), please chip in. It's too bad the Makita motor isn't brushless, though, and the bare tool is going for $365 on Amazon.

I wonder how the Stihl MSA 200 compares with the 160?


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## Philbert (Dec 18, 2014)

zemmo said:


> I think I'm actually going to buy one of these cordless saws for limbing when I'm out cutting.



Whatever you decide, please post back with your experiences by posting here, or by starting a new thread on that model. 

There are many brands to choose from (I tried to list some of them in Post # 50). Part of the choice could be cost; part could be the availability of product support if needed; part could be if you are looking for just one saw, or a family of tools that share the same batteries; and part could be how you intend to use the saw. Lots of ways to go.

Philbert


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## zemmo (Dec 18, 2014)

I will. There's one review of the Ryobi on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Ryobi-RY40511...iewpoints=1&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending


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## Philbert (Dec 18, 2014)

I have been watching for these in HD stores for a long time. None of the ones near me stock them. But the HD website just showed me a list of other area stores that stock them, so maybe I can go take a looks. Thanks.

Philbert


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## sawfun (Dec 18, 2014)

Way to go leybold, it would be nice if the manufacturers would watch what independent folks like you do and pick up on it. I wonder about some enginineering departments at times.


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## Philbert (Dec 18, 2014)

Just by chance, I ran across a nice promotional video for a new Black & Decker 40 volt chainsaw (LCS1240). I have not tried or used this saw. But also around $200 with a 12 inch bar, 2.0 amp hour Lithium-ion battery, and charger. Looks like 3/8 low profile chain.



Philbert


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## zemmo (Dec 18, 2014)

Cool. The tech info on these saws is somewhat lacking, so hard to compare. I did find a site that rebuilds the 40V battery with "Japanese" cells, not sure if this is the same battery part # but seems to be: http://www.ibatterys.com/40v936whli...r-ryobi-op4026-p-33077.html?cPath=37460_46507
If so, it is rated at about 94 w/h, more than the B&D. My impression of the Ryobi is that it's a more powerful machine, and I'm guessing that the B&D doesn't have a brushless motor. My experience with my old ni-cad Ryobi batteries is that they're (were?) pretty poor, I had to send them out to have the cells replaced with better cells.

Ryobi vid: https://www.ryobitools.com/outdoor/products/details/579

I'm kind of a flashlight/headlamp freak too, and the quality of Li-ion batteries, taking 18650 as an example, varies widely. The best, both in capacity and lifetime, are made by Panasonic, and then have the protection circuit fitted by Orbtronic, or many others. I wouldn't be surprised if you'd find 18650 cells inside the Ryobi battery, I think I read somewhere there were 10 cells? Each 18650 is nominally 3.7 volts and capacity varies from under 2000 mah to around 3600 mah.

This Ryobi is about at the upper limit of weight for what I want. I just weighed my Dolmar 401 with a 13" bar and it's a bit over 11 lbs, partially fueled and oiled. The Ryobi is less than that.


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## Philbert (Dec 18, 2014)

I am not an expert on the batteries or electronics. I have to go somewhat by brand reputation, by use and feel, and by the experiences reported by others on sites like this.

It would be nice if places like Batteries+ (just as an example) would rebuild Li-Ion cells, because the batteries are one of the most expensive components of these saws, and some of these companies will not be around in 4 or 5 years when we start needing replacements! I know that lithium cells can be more tricky to deal with, due to their nasty tendency to catch fire when damaged, exposed to air, little things like that.

Philbert


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## zemmo (Dec 18, 2014)

This is an excellent forum, if you ever want to learn probably more than you ever wanted to learn about batteries and light electronics: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?9-Flashlight-Electronics-Batteries-Included

Meanwhile, I think you should get a Ryobi and test it for us.


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## Chainsaw10 (Dec 18, 2014)

zemmo said:


> This is a great thread; I think I'm actually going to buy one of these cordless saws for limbing when I'm out cutting. It looks like the Ryobi really is a bargain; the kit is $200 at Home Despot. I think I'll pick one up next time I go to town. Unimaginable only a few years ago to think about doing even light work with a cordless chainsaw, what a crazy world. If anyone else is using the Ryobi (or the Makita, as I have 18V Makita tools and batteries), please chip in. It's too bad the Makita motor isn't brushless, though, and the bare tool is going for $365 on Amazon.
> 
> I wonder how the Stihl MSA 200 compares with the 160?


I bought the MSA 160 about 4 months ago. It gets used at least an hour or two a day....at least 5 days a week. I use it for chainsaw carving...mostly details and some full smallish carvings (2ft tall). I've been carving for about 20 years, 17 years as my full time gig.....so I've had dozens of saws over the years. I've been extremely happy with this 160 saw. 
A few days ago i picked up the MSA 200. I was thinking it was just going to be a slight increase in power, and I would have been happy with that. But to my surprise the 200 really is MUCH, MUCH more capable. It can make full bar length cuts without bogging down and just plain has more snot! I am thrilled with both of these saws...but the MSA 200 is really the way to go. The 160 will still see a lot of use, but I put a 8" dime tip carving bar on it...so it will be mostly for fine detail finishing. The MSA 200 is really comparable to a small gas saw....it cuts as quickly, if not quicker than my ms150's. 
I've got an urge after reading this thread to go snag a Ryobi.....for $200 bucks how could I go wrong. I'll just return it if its a turd. 
I'm also an electric RC car fanatic, so I'm no stranger to brushless motors powered by lithium batteries. This technology is advancing so quickly. I can't wait to see what kind of power were gonna see out of brushless saws over the next 5 or 10 years!!!!


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## Philbert (Dec 18, 2014)

Chainsaw10 said:


> I bought the MSA 160 about 4 months ago. . . . A few days ago i picked up the MSA 200.


Great that you have both to compare side-by-side!

I assume that both STIHL saws use the same battery?

Are there amperage or wattage ratings on the 2 saws?

How about the chain? As I recall, the smaller saw uses 1/4 inch pitch chain. how about the MSA200?

Thanks!

Philbert


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## Chainsaw10 (Dec 18, 2014)

Yup...they run the same battery. I have 2 of the higher capacity stihl batteries. I forget what they're titled as...mp180's or something. The two saws are actually physically identical from the outside. Just the brushless motors/speed controller....the insides....are different. I'm not sure off the top of my head of the power ratings. ...
Both saws use the mini 1/4" .043 chain. This chain is just plain awesome. It cuts extremely fast and smooth. Far better than 3/8, or standard .050 1/4" chain. I just bought a 25' reel of this chain because i run it on 5 of my saws now. Both Battery saws, two ms150's, ....and I even adapted an MS 250 to run it. This chain is a big part of the success of these saws....such little resistance/friction. It just smoothly slices through the wood....never any roughness, bouncing, or chattering (even in Oak, Walnut, and other hardwoods I've messed with.)


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## zemmo (Dec 18, 2014)

Chainsaw10 said:


> The MSA 200 is really comparable to a small gas saw....it cuts as quickly, if not quicker than my ms150's.
> I've got an urge after reading this thread to go snag a Ryobi.....for $200 bucks how could I go wrong. I'll just return it if its a turd.
> I'm also an electric RC car fanatic, so I'm no stranger to brushless motors powered by lithium batteries. This technology is advancing so quickly. I can't wait to see what kind of power were gonna see out of brushless saws over the next 5 or 10 years!!!!



You should definitely get one, that would be perfect, I'd love to see how the Ryobi stacks up against the MSA200. I'd be interested to know what kind of cells are in the battery packs.


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## Chainsaw10 (Dec 18, 2014)

I'm probably gonna pick up a Ryobi early next week... Ill post my thoughts after i run it a bit. I know for sure that the 3/8" .043 chain that comes with it won't cut as smoothly or efficiently as the 1/4" .043 Stihl chain. I've run that .043 3/8 on many saws in the past. But I would be looking to use the Ryobi mostly for texturing fur/feathers into carvings...a bit rougher chain sometimes works well for this. Who knows...maybe I can find a sprocket to adapt the 1/4" to the Ryobi


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## zemmo (Dec 18, 2014)

Chainsaw10 said:


> I'm probably gonna pick up a Ryobi early next week... Ill post my thoughts after i run it a bit. I know for sure that the 3/8" .043 chain that comes with it won't cut as smoothly or efficiently as the 1/4" .043 Stihl chain. I've run that .043 3/8 on many saws in the past. But I would be looking to use the Ryobi mostly for texturing fur/feathers into carvings...a bit rougher chain sometimes works well for this. Who knows...maybe I can find a sprocket to adapt the 1/4" to the Ryobi



Oregon makes a narrow kerf 3/8 .043 for it. Wonder what kind of chain it'll come with. I've never used that 1/4 Stihl chain.


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## Philbert (Dec 18, 2014)

I'm sayin', we need a cordless GTG!!!

Good to have user input on different saws, and different uses. I am sure that the 1/4 pitch is the way to go for a lot of carving tasks. I only tried the MSA160 at a display on some 4 inch diameter birch. A little slow for firewood cutting. 

Most of my hands-on experience has been with the Oregon cordless products. The CS250 runs 3/8 low profile, PowerSharp chain (.050). The Oregon 40 Volt pole saw runs the 3/8, low profile, narrow kerf chain (.043), which cuts really well, but it is used mostly on smaller limbs with an 8 inch bar.

Oregon announced a new, brushless saw (Spring 2015?) that they claim will have 40% more power and a 16 inch bar (instead of 14 inch) - maybe this is the same type of step up as from the MSA160 to MSA200?

Philbert


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## Chainsaw10 (Dec 18, 2014)

Here's the 2 stihl brushless saws....and some small carvings I made with them and my ms150's. As you can see the saws are exactly the same on the outside, except for the bars of course


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## Philbert (Dec 18, 2014)

Very nice carvings!

Philbert


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## zemmo (Dec 19, 2014)

Philbert said:


> I am not an expert on the batteries or electronics. I have to go somewhat by brand reputation, by use and feel, and by the experiences reported by others on sites like this.
> 
> It would be nice if places like Batteries+ (just as an example) would rebuild Li-Ion cells, because the batteries are one of the most expensive components of these saws, and some of these companies will not be around in 4 or 5 years when we start needing replacements! I know that lithium cells can be more tricky to deal with, due to their nasty tendency to catch fire when damaged, exposed to air, little things like that.
> 
> Philbert



I hope nobody "rebuilds" Li-ion cells in battery packs. The only thing to do is to replace the cells, and there are shops doing that now. I have an email in to one of them trying to find out which cells Ryobi is using, and how well they perform. There are a lot of lousy 18650's out there, but I'm hoping Ryobi is using decent cells.


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## Philbert (Dec 20, 2014)

Just saw ads for DeWalt 40 volt string trimmers, hedge trimmers, and leaf blowers. Due out in 2015. 

Philbert


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## zogger (Dec 20, 2014)

Philbert said:


> Just saw ads for DeWalt 40 volt string trimmers, hedge trimmers, and leaf blowers. Due out in 2015.
> 
> Philbert



Ha! Remember a few years back, and 99% of the guys here said no one would ever buy those electric toys..and you and I and a few others said, just watch, these new batteries and motors are game changers? These companies all knew that, and now all of them are coming out with some serious battery powered tools.

We are *this* close to a battery saw that will run a 20 inch bar with some authority, you can smell it coming now.


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## Philbert (Dec 20, 2014)

If the DeWalt 40 volt *** uses the same battery packs as their construction tools, that will be really attractive for some users, and a strong competitive advantage with contractors. Homeowners may be less concerned if their drill uses a different battery pack than their weed whip, because they are probably different voltages as well.

_(Now I just need a 40 volt chainsaw grinder to tie a few of these threads together . . . )_

Philbert


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## zemmo (Dec 21, 2014)

I've been using cordless tools most of my life; lived off the grid for a long time in AK. The first thing I used was a Makita screwgun (9V?). The first cordless tool I had that could usably run a circ saw was the 18 volt L-ion Makita, and that hasn't been availabe for all that long. There will always be a range of voltages, IMO, because it makes no sense to use a 40V battery in a screwgun. The L-ion batteries have a lot more energy density (per mass) than their antecedents, but the higher capacity 40 volt battery packs are getting up into the 3-4 lb range now, too big and heavy for a lot of tools. A small or medium capacity 18V, like my Makita, still works well in a screwgun, and still has enough oomph for light circ saw usage. What I want, and it seems like the current tools are just about there, is a 10 or 11 lb chainsaw (with battery and 12-14 inch bar and chain) that will give reasonable cutting time and speed for limbing and very light bucking. If we're not there yet we're pretty close. This tech has really taken off lately, it's great!


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## Philbert (Dec 21, 2014)

zemmo said:


> What I want, and it seems like the current tools are just about there, is a 10 or 11 lb chainsaw (with battery and 12-14 inch bar and chain) that will give reasonable cutting time and speed for limbing and very light bucking.



I think that several of the current 36 - 40 volt tools are within a pound or so of that spec.

Philbert


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## zemmo (Dec 21, 2014)

I haven't seen any mention of a Dewalt chainsaw yet, but? These are brushless tools with up to 6 Ah batteries (wonder how much that baby weights?)
BTW, I have a brushless Dyson vac that's become my primary house vacuum, unbelievable suction.

http://www.dewalt.com/tool-categories/outdoorpe.aspx


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## zogger (Dec 21, 2014)

Philbert said:


> I think that several of the current 36 - 40 volt tools meet that spec.
> 
> Philbert



I know if I use all three batts on my oregon, I can easily fill up the tractor tote box. One battery will give me at least a couple wheelbarrows full. And the new model coming with way more power/effiency and the near double size batts..well, you can extrapolate from that.


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## zemmo (Dec 21, 2014)

Philbert said:


> I think that several of the current 36 - 40 volt tools meet that spec.
> 
> Philbert


Yeah, the MSA 200 and maybe the Ryobi and? I forgot to mention that it would actually be ok if my ten lb. cordless saw would have the power of my Dolmar 7900


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## zemmo (Dec 21, 2014)

zogger said:


> I know if I use all three batts on my oregon, I can easily fill up the tractor tote box. One battery will give me at least a couple wheelbarrows full. And the new model coming with way more power/effiency and the near double size batts..well, you can extrapolate from that.



I'm real interested to see the forthcoming brushless Oregon saw. Does the auto-sharpening tool on the Oregon actually do an acceptable job?


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## Philbert (Dec 21, 2014)

zemmo said:


> Does the auto-sharpening tool on the Oregon actually do an acceptable job?


Yes.

Philbert

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/powersharp.148391/

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/oregon-powersharp.125402/


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## zemmo (Dec 21, 2014)

Philbert said:


> Yes.
> 
> Philbert
> 
> ...



Interesting. I see the current model is listed at $449 with the big battery and charger. It's listed as 12 lb with the big battery, though, more than I want. Heh. It's listed as the same weight with the 2.4 Ah battery, so these aren't real measurements.


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## Chainsaw10 (Dec 21, 2014)

Th


Philbert said:


> Very nice carvings!
> 
> Philbert


Thanks dude
.....as far as the weight of these batteries goes, I use the stihl battery belt so that extra 3 or 4 lbs is on my hip. Especially when I know I'm using the saws for an hour or 2 straight. It's so nice carving with a 6 lb saw!! I think these batteries are gonna have to be on a belt/backpack once larger battery saws are developed.....or the saw are going to be in the 20lb range probably?


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## Philbert (Dec 21, 2014)

zemmo said:


> It's listed as the same weight with the 2.4 Ah battery, so these aren't real measurements.


I don't fully understand battery technology. When they told me that the 4.0 amp hour battery weighed the same as the 2.4 amp hour battery, it did not make sense to me either. But I weighed them on a postal scale and they are within a half an ounce of each other (2 lbs, 11 oz).

If I could wait, I would want to hold out for the brushless model, due to their claim of 40% more power.



Chainsaw10 said:


> .....as far as the weight of these batteries goes, I use the stihl battery belt so that extra 3 or 4 lbs is on my hip.


That certainly makes sense for your carving work, where you need dexterity and a light touch. For traditional cutting and limbing, the weight of a saw can be an asset, up to a point, if the saw is well balanced.

STIHL makes a backback for extended use (36V, 24.75 Ah/891 Wh, 15.7 lbs).
http://www.stihlusa.com/products/battery-accessories/batteries/ar900/


Husqvarna Battery Backpack (36V, 14.4 Ah/520 WH, 15.6 lbs)
http://www.husqvarna.com/uk/landsca...with-the-new-professional-backpack-batteries/
http://www.husqvarna.com/uk/landsca.../battery-series-accessories/bli520x/#features

Personally, I would prefer to stop and swap out a smaller, lighter battery now and then, and maybe to let the other one(s) recharge. But I am sure that there are applications where this backpack makes sense (especially if adapted to a 36 volt skateboard!).

Philbert


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## zemmo (Dec 21, 2014)

Thanks dude
.....as far as the weight of these batteries goes, I use the stihl battery belt so that extra 3 or 4 lbs is on my hip. Especially when I know I'm using the saws for an hour or 2 straight. It's so nice carving with a 6 lb saw!! I think these batteries are gonna have to be on a belt/backpack once larger battery saws are developed.....or the saw are going to be in the 20lb range probably?[/QUOTE]

Doesn't the cord from the battery pack to the saw get in the way?


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## zemmo (Dec 21, 2014)

Philbert said:


> I don't fully understand battery technology. When they told me that the 4.0 amp hour battery weighed the same as the 2.4 amp hour battery, it did not make sense to me either. But I weighed them on a postal scale and they are within a half an ounce of each other (2 lbs, 11 oz).
> 
> Weird. It might be that the 2.4 Ah battery is using cheaper 18650's (2400 mAh) and the 4 Ah pack is using the very best (3600 mAh to the best of my knowledge) 18650 cells. I don't even know for sure if they are using 18650's, can anyone confirm?


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## Philbert (Dec 21, 2014)

zemmo said:


> Doesn't the cord from the battery pack to the saw get in the way?



Never used one. But I have used corded electric saws and other outdoor power equipment (***) for many years, along with many types of corded power tools.
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/new-oregon-corded-electric-chainsaw.268379/

My bigger concern would be the 16 pounds of weight on my back.

Philbert


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## zogger (Dec 21, 2014)

zemmo said:


> Interesting. I see the current model is listed at $449 with the big battery and charger. It's listed as 12 lb with the big battery, though, more than I want. Heh. It's listed as the same weight with the 2.4 Ah battery, so these aren't real measurements.



The powersharp works really well. As soon as they have it out for .325 and full 3/8ths, I am going for it on my other saws. I'll pay the money. And I am cheap/frugal, heck I be po! Cuts great actually. It is one reason they can get a premium price for it, their whole idea for the marketing spiel is "no hassles". 

Everything about it is designed to be grab, go cut. No intermediate BS, no mix to go bad, no yank starting, no dull chain, no airfilter to get plugged up, no scored cylinders, no engine flooded, no plugged vent, no yankyankyankyankyancussyankyank, etc., no nuthin, just a tool that can sit and go immediately into action. The battery placement makes for a very nice balance, and the overall weight isn't bad, the feel in your hands is like running a small gasser with better balance. The thermal overload protects the saw and battery from user abuse, you simply can't push it to a harmful level, it shuts down if you try. It does use bar oil, my experience using tractor supply grade oil is at least three full batteries per tank, very miserly, but good enough to keep the chain wet.


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## zemmo (Dec 21, 2014)

zogger said:


> The powersharp works really well. As soon as they have it out for .325 and full 3/8ths, I am going for it on my other saws. I'll pay the money. And I am cheap/frugal, heck I be po! Cuts great actually. It is one reason they can get a premium price for it, their whole idea for the marketing spiel is "no hassles".
> 
> Everything about it is designed to be grab, go cut. No intermediate BS, no mix to go bad, no yank starting, no dull chain, no airfilter to get plugged up, no scored cylinders, no engine flooded, no plugged vent, no yankyankyankyankyancussyankyank, etc., no nuthin, just a tool that can sit and go immediately into action. The battery placement makes for a very nice balance, and the overall weight isn't bad, the feel in your hands is like running a small gasser with better balance. The thermal overload protects the saw and battery from user abuse, you simply can't push it to a harmful level, it shuts down if you try. It does use bar oil, my experience using tractor supply grade oil is at least three full batteries per tank, very miserly, but good enough to keep the chain wet.



That sounds pretty great! Thanks.


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## zogger (Dec 21, 2014)

zemmo said:


> That sounds pretty great! Thanks.



You are welcome. Just hold out for the next model with the motor upgrade and be sure to get the bigger battery option.

Now, how to replace batts when it is needed after a thousand charges, so it isn't painful. Every time you use it, throw some change in a coffee can. That's it. come to need replacement, you should have it, or be close enough it isn't a big deal.


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## zemmo (Dec 22, 2014)

Here's a 40V battery pack teardown:  As expected, 18650 cells, 20 cells in the pack.


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## Philbert (Dec 22, 2014)

Pretty cool to see the insides. But, . . . 

****** I have to reiterate my warning about Lithium batteries ******

While most assembled battery packs are 'consumer safe', the internal cells, if damaged, can be dangerous. Part of the reason they restrict them in you airline luggage. I have worked with some companies that assemble Lithium batteries and work is all done in chemical hoods/glove box type type environments. While many common batteries contain acid, that can be harmful, Lithium batteries can be especially hazardous, including fire risks.

I don't encourage anyone to disassemble these battery packs.

Philbert

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/lithium_ion_safety_concerns

http://www.nfpa.org/~/media/Files/R...ous materials/rflithiumionbatterieshazard.pdf

http://www.ul.com/global/documents/...ty Issues for Lithium-Ion Batteries_10-12.pdf


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## zemmo (Dec 22, 2014)

Ryobi saw for $196.59 (incl shp); weedwhacker for $168.09 right now on Amzn.


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## Chainsaw10 (Dec 23, 2014)

Picked up a Ryobi earlier today. Only cut with it for a few minutes......but WOW!!!
This thing rips!! I obviously can't say anything about durability at this point. ...and I'm sure runtime is gonna be short on the small capacity battery that is included in the kit. 
....but $200 for everything!, that's just the price of a single stihl battery


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## Philbert (Dec 23, 2014)

How much are additional batteries? I think that some suggested getting a string trimmer with a second battery and charger for not much more?

Look forward to your review!

Philbert


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## Chainsaw10 (Dec 23, 2014)

I think I saw the higher capacity battery on HomeDepot website for $129....i didn't see them in the store. Do you know if the trimmer comes with the higher cap. battery?


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## Chainsaw10 (Dec 23, 2014)

I cut a few full slices of a 12" hemlock log. The saw didnt hesitate. I would say the cutting speed in this log is definitely faster than the stihl. I am definitely impressed...more than i expected for sure. But i cut for about 2 minutes total, and the battery meter/lights already said it was down to about 3/4 power. ....but maybe that's not accurate. Only time will tell.


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## zemmo (Dec 23, 2014)

Wow, faster than the MSA200, that's a little amazing. Tell us more when you get a chance! Which battery did it come with, the 1.5 Ah "slim pack"?


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## zogger (Dec 23, 2014)

Chainsaw10 said:


> I cut a few full slices of a 12" hemlock log. The saw didnt hesitate. I would say the cutting speed in this log is definitely faster than the stihl. I am definitely impressed...more than i expected for sure. But i cut for about 2 minutes total, and the battery meter/lights already said it was down to about 3/4 power. ....but maybe that's not accurate. Only time will tell.



Similar with the oregon, larger diameter really made the batt go down fast. Keep to trim size, 2-4 inch, you get over a hundred cuts.


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## Chainsaw10 (Dec 23, 2014)

zemmo said:


> Wow, faster than the MSA200, that's a little amazing. Tell us more when you get a chance! Which battery did it come with, the 1.5 Ah "slim pack"?


I can't say for absolutely sure it's faster....it may be my imagination because its a bit louder and seems to run at quite a bit higher RPM's. But I'm almost positive it's cutting quicker than the MSA200. I'll have to time some cuts and maybe take some comparison videos. With the holidays here I'm not sure I'll get to immediately, but it'll be pretty soon. I'm really anxious to get some hours on this saw. 
And yes, it came with the slim pack.


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## Philbert (Dec 23, 2014)

The LED lights are helpful in a general sense, but I don't think that they are super accurate. I have '_used_' anywhere from 1 to 3 LEDs (out of 4) doing the same amount of work, and had 1 LED last for a really long time. I think that you would need laboratory controlled conditions to be sure.

Info from the HD and Ryobi websites show the 'Slim Line' (1.5 Amp hour) 40 volt battery for $99.99 and the 'High-Capacity' (2.4 Amp hours) one for $129.99. The MODEL: #RY40210A string trimmer, with a battery and charger is $149.99 (looks like the larger battery pack on the Ryobi website, but photos can be deceiving. Good thing to check).

Also noted that they have a '40 Volt Chainsaw' and a '40 Volt _Brushless_ Chainsaw'. So people have to make sure they get the right _saw_ and the right _batteries_!

https://www.ryobitools.com/outdoor/products/list/category/chain-saws

Philbert

*They even have a 'Jaw-Saw' type device for Zogger!


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## Chainsaw10 (Dec 23, 2014)

This is the higher capacity battery on the Home Depot website
http://t.homedepot.com/p/Ryobi-40-V..._pip1_rr-6-_-NA-_-203161619-_-N&showPLP=false

I'll probably order one up in a few weeks if i determine that the saw is a keeper.


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## Philbert (Dec 23, 2014)

The brushless motor saws are only $30 more than the earlier version. They look a whole lot more balanced than the earlier ones too!





Philbert


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## Chainsaw10 (Dec 23, 2014)

It does have a very comfortable balanced feel. ....That older brushed motor version looks dopey and clumsy as all hell


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## Philbert (Dec 23, 2014)

Chainsaw10 said:


> This is the higher capacity battery on the Home Depot website . . . I'll probably order one up in a few weeks if i determine that the saw is a keeper.



A second battery is very important, in my opinion, for these saws. Since you are typically not running the saw 100% of the time, the 'other' battery can be on the charger while you work. The higher capacity batteries are always more convenient, but good to have any kind for a back-up. Oregon is offering one of their lower capacity batteries free (until the end of the year?) with the purchase of some of their cordless tools - I would not turn it down.

Philbert


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## zemmo (Dec 23, 2014)

Chainsaw10 said:


> This is the higher capacity battery on the Home Depot website
> http://t.homedepot.com/p/Ryobi-40-V..._pip1_rr-6-_-NA-_-203161619-_-N&showPLP=false
> 
> I'll probably order one up in a few weeks if i determine that the saw is a keeper.



The ibatteries site I emailed haven't gotten back to me about the cell info, but it might very well be an option. If I hear from them I'll post. http://www.ibatterys.com/40v936whli...r-ryobi-op4026-p-33077.html?cPath=37460_46507 Generally Japanese cells, especially Panasonic, are going to be the best cells.


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## Chainsaw10 (Dec 23, 2014)

Pretty cool....so a refurbished pack may be higher quality than the original stock pack!....at a cheaper price. That may be the way to go if I buy a second battery


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## zemmo (Dec 23, 2014)

Chainsaw10 said:


> Pretty cool....so a refurbished pack may be higher quality than the original stock pack!....at a cheaper price. That may be the way to go if I buy a second battery



From my very limited experience with Ryobi batteries, that may be exactly the case.


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## zemmo (Dec 24, 2014)

Chainsaw10 said:


> Picked up a Ryobi earlier today. Only cut with it for a few minutes......but WOW!!!
> This thing rips!! I obviously can't say anything about durability at this point. ...and I'm sure runtime is gonna be short on the small capacity battery that is included in the kit.
> ....but $200 for everything!, that's just the price of a single stihl battery



Gee, it doesn't look like there's enough room for the toe of your boot in the rear handle when you jerk the cord to start it. . . oh, wait, never mind.


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## Philbert (Dec 24, 2014)

Not a very big handle on the starter cord either. And wait until you try to service the air filter or spark plug!

Philbert


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## Chainsaw10 (Dec 24, 2014)

Let me see if I can post a vid right from my phone....


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## Philbert (Dec 24, 2014)

Yeah, but the STIHL bar was upside down!

Look competitive - I did not time your cuts. I agree that the Ryobi 'sounds' more powerful - I don't like the high pitch whine of the STIHL.

Same chains? Or 3/8 low pro on the Ryobi and 1/4 inch on the STIHL?

Nice video - Thanks.

Philbert


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## zemmo (Dec 24, 2014)

Chainsaw10 said:


> Let me see if I can post a vid right from my phone....




Thanks, danged impressive! I guess I should just buy one, I could use it today.


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## Chainsaw10 (Dec 24, 2014)

Both saws are running their stock chains. Stihl has the mini 1/4" .043. Ryobi has lo pro .043 3/8". 
Going back over the vid it appears that the Stihl is a hair faster....like a second or less per cut. 


After those 7 cuts with the Ryobi i fiddled cutting with it for just 3 or 4 minutes more....after that the battery was reading only 25% power still remaining. I'll have to get the larger batt soon. It's is definitely power hungry!!

....and that Stihl bar is not upside down....it's the only thing in the vid that is right side up. Everything else is upside down....then I flipped the video over before posting


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## Chainsaw10 (Dec 24, 2014)

I took the side cover and bar off of he ryobi . The motor shaft dimension is exactly the same as the stihl motor shaft. I'm gonna try to find a way to fit a 1/4" sprocket on there. It will definitely cut faster and more efficiently with the mini 1/4" chain. The stihl sprocket wont directly fit because the sprocket includes the whole chain brake drum as a single piece with the sprocket.....the ryobi is just a simple sprocket without a chain brake drum. I think i may order a spare Stihl sprocket and cut off the drum part...and see if i can make it work.


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## Philbert (Dec 24, 2014)

At HD right now, looking at it. I had to go to a more upscale location to find one!

Feels OK in my hands. Like the rubberized grips. Balances well. No chain brake - does the chain stop or coast when you release the trigger?

Looks like the sku 298-815 string trimmer comes with the larger battery, and a charger, for only $20 more than buying the large battery alone.

Philbert


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## Chainsaw10 (Dec 24, 2014)

The chain coasts for about a second to a stop... I really don't see the need for a chain break on these saws. That string trimmer sounds like a good deal, but I might find more uses for the blower if it comes with the big battery. I would use it to blow sawdust off carvings...and out of my shop and truck. Easier than always breaking out the big stihl backpack blower.


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## Philbert (Dec 24, 2014)

Chainsaw10 said:


> The chain coasts for about a second to a stop... I really don't see the need for a chain break on these saws.



Many electric and battery saws have lever activated chain brakes similar to those on gas saws. Some of them also have an electric chain brake which stops the chain immediately when the trigger is released. Just trying to compare features.

Philbert


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## Philbert (Dec 24, 2014)

*** I modified the name of this thread, since we are talking about/comparing many more brands of 36 to 56 volt battery powered chainsaws than just the STIHL model(s). A lot has changed since this thread started 3+ years ago.***

There are some separate, related threads on other cordless saws:

STIHL vs Husq Battery Saws http://www.arboristsite.com/communi...vs-husqvarna-battery-powered-t536lixp.235551/
Oregon 40 Volt Chainsaw http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/review-oregon-powernow-cordless-chainsaw.179262/
Oregon 40 Volt Pole Saw http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/oregon-40-volt-pole-saw.248941/
Husqvarna Cordless Chainsaws http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/husqvarna-cordless.183354/
Top Handled Cordless Saws http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/top-handle-electric-saw.258402/

Philbert http://www.arboristsite.com/community/members/philbert.12609/


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## PhilMcWoody (Dec 24, 2014)

When my gas powered McCulloch string trimmer died, I got an electric one. Decent power, but runs out of juice inside of 30 minutes. 
Just enough time to do a small patch -- that is not gonna cut it for folks who need more run time.
Next time going back to gas.


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## Philbert (Dec 24, 2014)

PhilMcWoody said:


> When my gas powered McCulloch string trimmer died, I got an electric one. Decent power, but runs out of juice inside of 30 minutes.
> Just enough time to do a small patch -- that is not gonna cut it for folks who need more run time.



I live on a city lot: 50 X 150 feet, and always within a 100 feet of an outlet, so I use a lot of corded ***. It is less expensive, low maintenance, and has plenty of power for residential use. Obviously, a cord does not work for everyone, especially large lots, lots of obstacles, non-residential use, etc.

These newer, cordless tools, with the more powerful motors and larger capacity batteries, are catching up, with the added convenience and mobility features. I still like the ones with separate batteries that can be swapped out, instead of the built in ones, where you have to stop work, and maybe throw away the whole tool when the battery dies. 

Philbert


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## zemmo (Dec 25, 2014)

Chainsaw10 said:


> I cut a few full slices of a 12" hemlock log. The saw didnt hesitate. I would say the cutting speed in this log is definitely faster than the stihl. I am definitely impressed...more than i expected for sure. But i cut for about 2 minutes total, and the battery meter/lights already said it was down to about 3/4 power. ....but maybe that's not accurate. Only time will tell.



Even the larger capacity battery is only rated 2.4 Ah. Using better cells could get it up near 4 Ah. I'm still assuming that all these batteries use 20 18650 cells in two 10 cell series strings. The next step up would be 3 series strings, 30 cells, and the highest capacity batteries may be using that config. Not much info on this, or on cell chemistry.


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## Philbert (Dec 25, 2014)

Oregon's batteries come in: 1.25, 2.4, and 4.0 Ah ratings. They are all in the same size battery pack, which is physically larger than the Ryobi pack. I wonder if they were planning for expansion?
STIHL's website shows 80, 160, 180, and 900* *W*h ratings, which convert to approximately 2.2, 4.4, 5, and 25* Ah.
Husqvarna's site shows 2.1, 4.2, 14.4*, and 26.1* Ah batteries
Ryobi's site shows 1.5, and 2.4 Ah batteries.

'*'= backpack batteries. All of these are 36 / 40 volt batteries.

Philbert


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## Philbert (Dec 25, 2014)

*80 Volt Cordless Chainsaw!!!
*
This probably deserves it's own thread, but I figured the Li-ion folks were already 'here'.
http://www.greenworkstools.com/80v-pro/80v-pro-chainsaw/80v-18inch-chainsaw/

18" bar, 3/8 (low pro?) chain, weight (?), $349 list with charger and 2.0 Ah battery.




_(It's like one of Zogger's predictions coming true! I'll have to start paying attention to what he says now)._

Philbert


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## Franny K (Dec 25, 2014)

Philbert said:


> Husqvarna's site shows
> 2.1, Ah battery $ 129.95 msrp
> 4.2, Ah battery $ 199.00 msrp
> 14.4*Ah battery $ 1,199.95
> ...



I added the prices for the husqvarna ones. I am tired of going on stihl's site clicking around selecting a dealer and then told to go in person for a price.

Perhaps someone could comment on a few things.

Do these batteries contain rare earth elements that are mined pretty much in China as even though we have a good deposit in California the risks of fines for mishaps makes it unlikely to mine it here.

Why is the price difference between the two backpack ones so small that would tend to indicate the cells themselves are not as expensive as we are lead to believe.

I overheard the husqvarna rep talk about the battery life and cost of rechaging to the next guy after I tried it. He claimed it cost three cents to re charge and that it would cost sixty cents to fuel a gasoline saw for the same energy. He also said it was good for 600 charge cycles. He also claimed one could cut for 40 minutes but later I see that was no load on economy mode. $200 over 600 cycles seems like more than 600 top handle gasoline refills to me. Any idea of how many pounds of chips a charge can produce and how much volume of gasoline does that equate to? 4.2, Ah battery  Kind of like the rechargeable motorcycles they won't say how high they can climb no matter how I phrase it.


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## Philbert (Dec 25, 2014)

A lot of the 36 v / 40 v (max) batteries for these tools seem to be in the 2 - 4 Ah, and $100 to $200 price ranges. That's a broad generalization, because it assumes that all are the same quality, etc. I have been told by several people that the Li-ion battery technology is based in Japan. I know that there have been some initiatives with hybrid cars to develop more battery technology here in the US, but since so much consumer manufacturing is done in Asia, it is hard to assume that this will move here.

As far as the chips/charge comparison, that would have to be done under very controlled conditions due to the variances in chain pitch and condition, as well as with the saws. For example, a significant amount of fuel is used to start and warm up a gas saw, and they are usually left to idle between cuts, while an electric saw only uses power when actually cutting. These battery saws really shine for intermittent cutting, pruning, clean up tasks, etc., where they are put down a lot while wood is being moved. They would be least advantageous for sustained cutting, such as bucking a cord or more of delivered logs.

Philbert


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## zemmo (Dec 25, 2014)

Philbert said:


> *80 Volt Cordless Chainsaw!!!
> *
> This probably deserves it's own thread, but I figured the Li-ion folks were already 'here'.
> http://www.greenworkstools.com/80v-pro/80v-pro-chainsaw/80v-18inch-chainsaw/
> ...



Are these saws changing fast or what!? Battery is probably 20 cells all in series. And a brushless motor. Factory should send one to one of the forum members for testing.


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## Philbert (Dec 25, 2014)

zemmo said:


> Factory should send one to one of the forum members for testing.


Or, at least to the members of this thread!

Philbert


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## zemmo (Dec 25, 2014)

Franny K said:


> I added the prices for the husqvarna ones. I am tired of going on stihl's site clicking around selecting a dealer and then told to go in person for a price.
> 
> Perhaps someone could comment on a few things.
> 
> ...



"Li-ion" is a really large umbrella, which includes many chemistries: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/types_of_lithium_ion
18650 cells are currently being manufactured in a number of countries, including Japan and China. I have seen some chemistries which use small amounts of rare earth elements but most do not. Prices are being kept abnormally high recently because of Tesla, in particular, soaking up the supply. Tesla is planning a $5 billion battery manufacturing plant in Nevada to reduce their reliance on Panasonic. In a tool pack, the cells don't need to be individually protected, as the electronics in the pack are tasked with that. Most of the Li-ion chemistries are nominally 3.7 V, so you can build a 10 or 20 cell 37 volt pack, or a 20 cell 74V pack. The backpack packs are using more cells in series strings, but I don't know why the Husky packs are so priced. The capacity of the 18650 cells from which these battery packs are constructed varies from under 2000 mAh to nearly 4000 mAh, and the price varies greatly as well. One should be able to buy good Panasonic cells for around $10, depending on exactly which cell, Panasonic makes at least 3 versions. They're not the same size, either, some are much longer than others, and some even vary in diameter. BTW 18650 refers to a cylindrical cell 18 mm in diameter and 65mm in length, although the protection circuit adds a variable amount of length.


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## Philbert (Dec 25, 2014)

I have to take a pass on some of the technical issues, including optimizing the torque/speed/power consumption design decisions with the motors. Not sure when more voltage is 'better', or past a practical point of diminishing returns. Why 20 cells and not 21 or 23? I like to know what is going on inside, but I can only really comment on the user experience of the product.

I think that the backpack batteries could be useful for some tools and tasks, such as running a string trimmer down a long path, where the user covers large distances on foot, rather than sawing and pruning, which are typically done more within a defined area, and where the cord and weight of a backpack could be an issue.

That said, I could see a lot of ham radio operators salivating at these batteries for 'field day' operations!

Philbert


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## zemmo (Dec 25, 2014)

Philbert said:


> I have to take a pass on some of the technical issues, including optimizing the torque/speed/power consumption design decisions with the motors. Not sure when more voltage is 'better', or past a practical point of diminishing returns. Why 20 cells and not 21 or 23? I like to know what is going on inside, but I can only really comment on the user experience of the product.
> 
> I think that the backpack batteries could be useful for some tools and tasks, such as running a string trimmer down a long path, where the user covers large distances on foot, rather than sawing and pruning, which are typically done more within a defined area, and where the cord and weight of a backpack could be an issue.
> 
> ...


10 cells in series gives you 37 volts.


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## Philbert (Dec 25, 2014)

zemmo said:


> 10 cells in series gives you 37 volts.


OK, but why not 11 cells and get 40.7? EGO Power claims 56 volts (= 15 cells?). Is there something electrically that coincides with these steps in battery power (e.g. dynamics of the motor or wiring), or just that we like multiples of 10 (as Tom Leher might say, because we have 10 fingers) and even numbers (calling it '36' or '40' volts instead of '37')?

Philbert


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## Franny K (Dec 25, 2014)

The back packs would have more series chains hooked up in parallel if they use the same cells as the snap in battery I would think.

Cycle Performance 80% of initial capacity at 300 cycles

They only had tulip or yellow poplar to test it on, and it was knot free and to be cut at 90 degrees. Even though I had seen a cut away picture of the Husqvarna one I had to ask the guy if it had planetary reduction as it made quite a bit of whirring sound. Maybe a .043 3/8 lo pro chain and a spur sprocket makes that much noise all by itself. He said it was direct drive. I guess it was acceptable kind of suprising how little difference the economy mode made which may just be slower chain speed.

Not sure why the local shop has sent out his first one, just like his first t540 to a tree guy on a try before you buy basis but no one (at least in this country) on here seems to be posting their experiences like for the t540.


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## zemmo (Dec 25, 2014)

Franny K said:


> You probably should edit 650 to 65 from what I just looked up.
> The back packs would have more series chains hooked up in parallel if they use the same cells as the snap in battery I would think.
> 
> Cycle Performance 80% of initial capacity at 300 cycles
> ...


Yep, brain fart, 65mm. Off to a javelina roast!


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## GrassGuerilla (Dec 25, 2014)

I'd imagine the biggest challenge as usual is scrubbing off heat generated. The size of the heat sinks and efficiency of the cooling solution limiting its voltage capacity. 

I've had some experience with 18650 cells in rechargeable flashlights. Failures are rare, but scary. Most happen either while hot charging, or during extreme discharge. Failure under extreme discharge rates results in a spectacular flame out. There have been reports of cheap Chinese cells exploding rather spectacularly during charging. So beware the modder of the risks at hand. That said, as a former rc car guy, good cells can make a HUGE impact on performance.


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## jamiec (Dec 26, 2014)

Hi I just bought the Ryobi 36v brushless here in Australia and it comes with a 36v 5 Ah battery should be good for decent run time.


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## Philbert (Dec 26, 2014)

They might sell it with the smaller battery here to meet a price point for sales and marketing. 

Philbert


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## zemmo (Dec 26, 2014)

jamiec said:


> Hi I just bought the Ryobi 36v brushless here in Australia and it comes with a 36v 5 Ah battery should be good for decent run time.


Yeah, it should. How much does the battery weigh? Have fun with it.


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## Chainsaw10 (Dec 26, 2014)

I would definitely pick up a 5aH battery for mine if I could locate one. I haven't seen one with that much capacity in the U. S.


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## jamiec (Dec 26, 2014)

zemmo said:


> How much does the battery weigh?



1.44 Kg or 3lbs3oz


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## zogger (Dec 26, 2014)

Philbert said:


> *80 Volt Cordless Chainsaw!!!
> *
> This probably deserves it's own thread, but I figured the Li-ion folks were already 'here'.
> http://www.greenworkstools.com/80v-pro/80v-pro-chainsaw/80v-18inch-chainsaw/
> ...



Quick! someone buy one and try it out!! hahaha!

Hmm, predictions..silver, being both an ancient form of money and also an industrial use metal, is really underpriced today..socking some away won't hurt...

Told my girlfriend to add some alibaba to her portfolio with their IPO, she listened and is up..40%? Something like that so far.


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## zogger (Dec 26, 2014)

The greenworks saw chain doesn't say low pro

http://www.greenworkstools.com/lawn-garden/parts-accessories/18inch-chainsaw-chain/

If that is really full size chain and their saws are pulling it, I'm impressed.


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## Philbert (Dec 26, 2014)

zogger said:


> The greenworks saw chain doesn't say low pro . . .



It also says '_0.50_" gauge'. The image of the chain on the product page looked strange - almost like the low-kickback bumpers on the tie straps are facing backwards(?).

I sent them a question on it via their web page.

Philbert


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## zemmo (Dec 26, 2014)

zogger said:


> Quick! someone buy one and try it out!! hahaha!
> 
> Hmm, predictions..silver, being both an ancient form of money and also an industrial use metal, is really underpriced today..socking some away won't hurt...
> 
> Told my girlfriend to add some alibaba to her portfolio with their IPO, she listened and is up..40%? Something like that so far.



All over it! Gold, platinum, and palladium, too.


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## zemmo (Dec 26, 2014)

zogger said:


> The greenworks saw chain doesn't say low pro
> 
> http://www.greenworkstools.com/lawn-garden/parts-accessories/18inch-chainsaw-chain/
> 
> If that is really full size chain and their saws are pulling it, I'm impressed.



Wonder how much that saw weighs with the big battery. I surmise it might be too heavy for what I want a cordless saw for, but?


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## mvb1130 (Dec 26, 2014)

I used the 80v green works saw at the gie expo and it was really nice I was cutting 12" pieces of Sycamore. The saw had good speed and torque it was the best battery operated saw I used. I used the husky, and the Oregon as well. It is just nice to think about not messing with fuel, air filters, plugs and carbs. Cheers


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## Chainsaw10 (Dec 26, 2014)

I just did a search on YouTube for 80v Greenworks Chainsaw. There's two quick vids of some Chinese dude in a blue suit making a cut with it. It looks like a hunk of crap to me(just like other Greenworks stuff)....I think my stihl 36v saws would cut just as fast as what's shown in those videos. ....or maybe it's just those vids, I'd like to see more.


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## Philbert (Dec 26, 2014)

Chainsaw10 said:


> I just did a search on YouTube for 80v Greenworks Chainsaw.


Interesting. When I searched YouTube for '_Greenworks 80 Volt Chainsaw_' I only found videos of their 40 volt and smaller models. When I used your term, '_80v Greenworks Chainsaw_', I found the ones you mentioned!

Linking them here for others:





But you are correct - more voltage is not necessarily 'better', 'faster', 'stronger', or make for a better saw by itself. Those videos are not impressive, but it is hard to know what wood they are cutting, or the condition of the chain. That's why we want to try them side-by-side, like you did with the Ryobi and STIHL!

Philbert


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## mvb1130 (Dec 26, 2014)

Well just by looking at the ground that chain is probably fried, look at all the cookies. That is cherry from what it looks like, not soft wood for sure. I don't know why I am fighting for the saw lol. Well I am fighting for it because it was the best one I ran at the convention and 80v makes a big difference from what I saw.


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## Chainsaw10 (Dec 26, 2014)

....yeah it may have had a really dull chain.


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## Philbert (Dec 26, 2014)

mvb1130 said:


> . . . it because it was the best one I ran at the convention and 80v makes a big difference from what I saw.



Thanks Michael. As far as I know, you are the only here that has tried it to date, so I appreciate your comments and impressions. Don't want anyone to have to defend any brand or model - I was just blown away that there are 80 volt battery tools out there! Some of these battery saws will appeal on price point, some on performance, some on features, etc. It would be interesting to try their 40 and 80 volt saws side-by-side, with identical chains, to see what type of noticeable difference the increased voltage makes, in addition to comparing it to other brands and models. Did you have that opportunity at GIE?

Philbert


----------



## zemmo (Dec 27, 2014)

In a perfect world, we'd have a genuine electrical engineer, specializing in DC motors and battery tech, on this forum to comment. In the absence of such, it's impossible to understand some of these issues: How much is the increase in voltage a design improvement, or just a fad, like the past obsession with pixel #s in digital camera sensors? How is thermal management affected? And so on. . .

Both brushless motor and battery tech are improving by leaps and bounds, and batteries seem poised to get significantly cheaper. Tesla, who use around 7000 18650 cells in their 60 kWh battery pack, is intent on dramatically reducing the price with the new factory in Nevada, in which Panasonic is also involved. They envision producing as many cells as the rest of the world currently produces, by 2020. "Learn to face the strange ch-ch-changes"

This link references the old Roadster battery; the current S model batteries are configured into what's essentially a slab, which lies under the body (it's actually functionally part of the chassis).
http://www.teslamotors.com/roadster/technology/battery

And the factory:http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/27/a...actory-for-mass-market-electric-car.html?_r=0

These cordless tools are now like computers, you know when you buy one that there will be a much better one next year. At least that's my excuse for not yet buying one Maybe the brushless Oregon in the spring: I really like the idea of the self-sharpener in this kind of saw.


----------



## Philbert (Mar 18, 2015)

*Echo Joins theClub!
*
Fubar posted this in another thread:



Looks like a promising product. But, surprisingly, '_only available at Home Depot_'!?

$299 with 4.0AHr battery and charger.

If I was an Echo dealer I would be seriously P.O.'d. HD already has Ryobi, EGO, and Makita battery powered chainsaws. Do they expect Echo dealers to service and do warranty repairs, but not sell them?

http://www.echocordless.com/products/chain-saw/

Philbert


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## 7sleeper (Mar 18, 2015)

What I am wondering about is the "tool storage"? Do you have a screwdriver with a lighbulb inside in there... 

edit: just googled and found out it's called electrician or tester screwdriver, learn something new everyday!

7


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## Philbert (Mar 18, 2015)

7sleeper said:


> What I am wondering about is the "tool storage"?



The Owner's Manual is available on-line for more information: http://manuals.echocordless.com/sys.../CCS-58V_107174001_276_trilingual_03.pdf?2014

It shows a recess for storing the scrench underneath the hand guard. OK if it holds it securely. It is interesting that they did not go with a 'tool-less' chain tensioner, like many of the other battery saws. That seems to be a common and popular feature for this market segment.




I like Echo saws, and the specs on this one look good. Does not appear to be in any stores near me - only from HD.com.

Philbert


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## Fubar (Mar 18, 2015)

i have been watching the cordless electric saws for quite some time , the first of battery powered anythings was pretty weak and the battery's went flat quick , voltage means power , 58 volts is getting up into the real saw power realm , the lithium ion battery is lighter , has more capacity and delivers full amp output until it is dead , echo dose not list the run time on a charge , cause of course it varies due to load , duration and temp , but i would like to have one and a extra battery to test out cause a friend of mine has a saw mill and i go over there and saw slabs " cedar , oak , popular .pine ect " for fire wood , and i would just be tickled if i could cut a truck load on two batteries , cause i have some health problems and unlike some i don't enjoy having toxic fumes spewed in my face , its hard enough work without smothering as well, LOL ,battery technology has gotten so good now, i plan to replace all my lawn equipment with cordless as it wears out .


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## 7sleeper (Mar 18, 2015)

@Fubar,

in the mean time you can use premix instead of regular gas and oil mix. The fumes are supposed to be much less irretative. 

@Philbert ,

I had already assumed that it was their intention to go the same route as Mc Culloch on their current line of saws inserting the scrench into the rear end grip. Wonder if anyone will try to claim royalties.... But of course a scrench is only needed on a gas powered saw... this is of course only a nutfastenerwithinteractivechainadjusteradjuster...



7


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## Philbert (Mar 18, 2015)

Fubar said:


> i have been watching the cordless electric saws for quite some time , . . . , 58 volts is getting up into the real saw power realm . . . i would like to have one and a extra battery to test . . .


There were earlier versions of battery powered chainsaws in the 12 to 18 volt range. I consider these 36 - 58 volt saws, with Lithium-ion batteries, and 4.0 Amp hour ratings, to be in a separate class. And the brushless motor versions of these, I consider to be the '_second generation_' of this class. I have used my Oregon 40V for 3+ years now, and have been impressed with it (see my comments in those referenced threads). Looking forward to the next version, due out in the next few months - promises increased power and chain speed.

I know that Home Depot rents the Makita, 36V, top handled saw, if you just want to take one for a test spin. Locally, they only supply you with one battery, but maybe you could work something out. Some of the battery chargers can be run off of a suitable inverter in your truck, so you can swap out, and recharge while working with the other.

Philbert


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## Fubar (Mar 18, 2015)

@7sleeper., i mainly just think the cordless electrics are cool as hell , get me a couple of solar panels to recharge the batteries , use filtered old french fry oil for the bar oil , that's about as green as it gets .


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## Fubar (Mar 18, 2015)

Philbert said:


> There were earlier versions of battery powered chainsaws in the 12 to 18 volt range. I consider these 36 - 58 volt saws, with Lithium-ion batteries, and 4.0 Amp hour ratings, to be in a separate class. And the brushless motor versions of these, I consider to be the '_second generation_' of this class. I have used my Oregon 40V for 3+ years now, and have been impressed with it (see my comments in those referenced threads). Looking forward to the next version, due out in the next few months - promises increased power and chain speed.
> 
> I know that Home Depot rents the Makita, 36V, top handled saw, if you just want to take one for a test spin. Locally, they only supply you with one battery, but maybe you could work something out. Some of the battery chargers can be run off of a suitable inverter in your truck, so you can swap out, and recharge while working with the other.
> 
> Philbert


heck with the money a man could save in gas in 3+ years time, two saws and two extra batteries would pay for themselves , i might try a Makita just so i can say i did, and who knows i might buy the used one if i can get it cheap enough , i like the looks of big blue corded Makita you have , Makita made the best cordless drills i had a couple that finally wore out after 20 years of use , but i really like Echo products too ,and they have a great warranty .


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## Treespotter (Mar 20, 2015)

Philbert said:


> *Echo Joins theClub!
> *
> Fubar posted this in another thread:
> View attachment 412817
> ...



Now we're talking! 
After a Makita 14 volts with a 4.5 inch bar, a Dolmar 18 volts with a 10 inch bar an d now a serious Husqvarna 36 volts with a 11.5 inch bar I can finally get a serious back handle. 

But Philbert, I don't think the 4 amps battery is included in the $299.00 deal. The deal is including a 2 amps battery and o yes, we also sell a 4 amps version. 

I really would love to see a bucking competition between the Echo CCS 58V and the Husqvarna 536 LiXP.


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## Treespotter (Mar 20, 2015)

They actually do say they sell it for 299 with the 4 amps battery. [emoji106]


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## zogger (Mar 20, 2015)

Fubar said:


> @7sleeper., i mainly just think the cordless electrics are cool as hell , get me a couple of solar panels to recharge the batteries , use filtered old french fry oil for the bar oil , that's about as green as it gets .



I would think you only need one decent solar panel for your battery saw gas station. You'll need a deep cycle 12 volt storage battery, a charge controller, then a 12 vdc to Ac inverter to plug in the factory charger.

I already had that stuff when I got my oregon, so I'm covered for societal collapse cutting, at least for a long time 

What I don't like is I can't get a new brushless motor, it won't fit the old style, I already called them up and asked 

Oh, they use so little bar oil, go ahead and splurge and get clean new oil, just stockpile on sale.

The oregon comes with the powersharp chain, but it will run normal 3/8ths low profile.

I'll get a new batt saw when they finally have one that will run full 3/8ths with maybe a 20 inch bar, but dang, any of the newer ones today are all looking good.


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## 7sleeper (Mar 20, 2015)

Fubar said:


> @7sleeper., i mainly just think the cordless electrics are cool as hell , get me a couple of solar panels to recharge the batteries , use filtered old french fry oil for the bar oil , that's about as green as it gets .


I understand your argument fully, the only question remains is how much is the solar panel array and other stuff you need for creating the electricity needed? I believe most people could run a conventional gas saw for a VERY long time!

7


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## Philbert (Mar 20, 2015)

Treespotter said:


> They actually do say they sell it for 299 with the 4 amps battery. [emoji106]


The Echo website was not clear, and the Home Depot one was worse! I could not get any information on the cost of a second 4.0 amp battery, or the cost of a bare tool that the Echo site mentioned. Pretty poor for the 'exclusive' distributor. I sent comments to both of them.

Also note that all of the product reviews on the home depot website were from '_seeded reviewers_' - people who received the tools for free in exchange for their review, and who have used the tool for 30 days or less. I am not accusing any of these reviewers of intentional bias, but they may still be in the 'honeymoon phase' of their new saw, so take those reviews 'with a grain of salt'.

It looks like a good product, and I have confidence in Echo saws. Hopefully we will get some A.S. members using these saws and get some additional feedback from more extended use.

Philbert


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## zogger (Mar 20, 2015)

7sleeper said:


> I understand your argument fully, the only question remains is how much is the solar panel array and other stuff you need for creating the electricity needed? I believe most people could run a conventional gas saw for a VERY long time!
> 
> 7



Same rig could be used for a lot of other stuff, too. When we first were living in the smaller camper, that's all I had for juice unless I ran the v-8 engine, a single panel and some gear. Kept us in gear like TV, light, radio, computer, etc just fine.

When we upgraded to a two panel system and a lot more batteries in the larger camper (4-6 volt golf cart batts), I installed the single panel system on a hand truck, so it was real portable, worked great for topping off vehicle batteries when not used much, etc. Heck, you could run a corded electric saw from one, at least for awhile. Think how long a trolling motor lasts with a single deep discharge battery charged up. Today, charge the laptop during power outtages, cellphone, whatever. 

Free power just for getting the infrastructure is not too shabby. It works, upmteen thousands of preppers have whole house or near whole house systems today, typically with roughly around a seven year payback over general average electric grid rates. Or say to go camping with sometimes, plenty of uses outside of charging battery saw batts. This stuff is way cheaper than it was ten/fifteen years ago, cheaper and better.

If gas engine tech was advancing as fast as electronics and solar and modern batteries, you could buy a 100MPG truck for maybe ten grand new, something like that anyway. Heck, when solar first came out, it was ten grand a small panel, now you can get a good panel for a hunnert bucks.

I remember when the first battery drills came out, I paid a scosh over 200 for one, nowadays, jeez, they got some nice ones that seriously outperform those older models, batts last much longer, more powerful, etc. Even the cheapest ones now are much better than the older more expensive ones.


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## zogger (Mar 20, 2015)

Philbert said:


> The Echo website was not clear, and the Home Depot one was worse! I could not get any information on the cost of a second 4.0 amp battery, or the cost of a bare tool that the Echo site mentioned. Pretty poor for the 'exclusive' distributor. I sent comments to both of them.
> 
> Also note that all of the product reviews on the home depot website were from '_seeded reviewers_' - people who received the tools for free in exchange for their review, and who have used the tool for 30 days or less. I am not accusing any of these reviewers of intentional bias, but they may still be in the 'honeymoon phase' of their new saw, so take those reviews 'with a grain of salt'.
> 
> ...



Hope so.


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## Franny K (Mar 20, 2015)

Cycle Performance 80% of initial capacity at 300 cycles
At 600 cycles that is 60% and where Husqvarna rates the battery life at, at least what I read. Don't get the idea it is going to be less expensive one can fill up a small saw a lot of times for the cost of one battery. Chances their cost analysis is using canned quarts of pre mix for $5 or more each.

Could someone quote from a manual about charging these things off an inverter and battery. I asked that question over in the Bailey's section and the guy didn't recommend it. All inverters may not be the same.


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## Philbert (Mar 20, 2015)

Franny K said:


> Could someone quote from a manual about charging these things off an inverter and battery. I asked that question over in the Bailey's section and the guy didn't recommend it. All inverters may not be the same.



*Source: Oregon PowerNow FAQs
"Can I charge my OREGON battery packs using a 12V system with a DC to AC inverter?*
_
There are options available on the market today. In order to ensure you do not damage your OREGON® product, we recommend only using a DC to AC inverter that meets the following specifications:
Input Voltage Range: 10.5 - 15 VDC**
Minimum Output Power: 260 watts 
Surge Power: >300 watts 
AC Output Frequency: 50–60 Hz 
AC Output Voltage Range: >90 <130 VAC 
Output Waveform: Pure/True Sine-Wave 
Efficiency: >80% 
GFCI Output: Preferred 
** Vehicles and Inverters designed for 24 volts or higher are OK as long as the other minimum requirements are met."_

I am not sure what this 'pure sine wave' output means, but they have included that phrase consistently for more than 3 years.

Philbert


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## Franny K (Mar 20, 2015)

It looks like that means $150 or so for the minimum size, not the one I got for $40 or so at the warehouse club that works an electric drill or drop light fine. Then they seem to state plus or minus 5%. I imagine it means if you plot voltage vs time the graph looks like ripples from dropping a pebble in a pond. Sin, cosine, tangent, remember those guys?


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## zogger (Mar 20, 2015)

Philbert said:


> *Source: Oregon PowerNow FAQs
> "Can I charge my OREGON battery packs using a 12V system with a DC to AC inverter?*
> _
> There are options available on the market today. In order to ensure you do not damage your OREGON® product, we recommend only using a DC to AC inverter that meets the following specifications:
> ...



Description of what the output looks like on an oscilloscope. It's "cleaner" power.
Most likely there is an informed sparky here can splain it better.


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## Fubar (Mar 20, 2015)

Philbert said:


> *Source: Oregon PowerNow FAQs
> "Can I charge my OREGON battery packs using a 12V system with a DC to AC inverter?*
> _
> There are options available on the market today. In order to ensure you do not damage your OREGON® product, we recommend only using a DC to AC inverter that meets the following specifications:
> ...



its filtered and regulated to produce true AC sine wave like a wall outlet, for sensitive electronics , like someone else said , they cost a bit more , starting about $150 for your power requirements .


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## zogger (Mar 20, 2015)

7sleeper said:


> I understand your argument fully, the only question remains is how much is the solar panel array and other stuff you need for creating the electricity needed? I believe most people could run a conventional gas saw for a VERY long time!
> 
> 7



Actually, I think most people today, not saw nuts like on this site, but most people who buy small occassional use gas saws, rebuy another small gas saw every two years or so. They let ancient ethanol gas sit in the saw, yank it until the cord breaks, or it starts and burns up fast,etc, cuss a lot, go to a shop, get a quote for repairs more than half way to a new saw, or more than a new saw if they get quoted the most expensive OEM parts and shop labor, so they then go buy another one.


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## Philbert (Mar 20, 2015)

I don't know if cheaper inverters might work, but might damage or reduce the usable life of these batteries, or what. I have always heard that heat damages the batteries during recharging, but do not understand the technical factors involved, or why Oregon sells a standard charger and a fast charger, etc.

Philbert


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## Franny K (Mar 20, 2015)

There may be electronics in the battery besides the cells. There are battery manufacturing plants for electric cars in the USA but the cells come or can come from abroad.


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## zogger (Mar 20, 2015)

I just looked on amazon, first page of hits for pure sine wave inverter, I see one for 80 bucks.

edit: reading the reviews on that one, a good tip. Dude said worked good, but to open them up, ditch the cheap internal fan and install a good ball bearing fan.


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## Treespotter (Mar 20, 2015)

I wonder what the chain speed is on the Echo.


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## Fubar (Mar 20, 2015)

Treespotter said:


> I wonder what the chain speed is on the Echo.


i think i read somewhere it was supposed to be as fast as a 42cc gas saw .


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## Treespotter (Mar 21, 2015)

Full throttle 14.500 revs with a nine pin sprocket? [emoji14]
That 42cc can mean anything.


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## Philbert (Mar 22, 2015)

Someone posted this in another forum about the Echo cordless tools. I have no way to verify it, but it would not be inconsistent with Home Depot's use of other brand names, such as 'Rigid'. 

_"Those units arent made by Echo so all products that would have an issue has to go back to home depot. Echo is in the middle of producing a dealer version (will be under Shindaiwa thoigh)"_

Philbert


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## Treespotter (Mar 22, 2015)

Mmmm, that probably explained why I couldn't find anything on the Yamabiko (Echo/Shindaiwa) global website. 
When Echo started sales of the 355 in America, the same model was found there with different codes (360 instead of 355).


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## zogger (Mar 22, 2015)

short vid of echo batt saw in use, looks good


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## zogger (Mar 22, 2015)

greenworks 80volt


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## Philbert (Mar 22, 2015)

Both of these have a higher pitch 'whine' than some of the others.

I want to try all of them!

Philbert


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## zogger (Mar 22, 2015)

Philbert said:


> Both of these have a higher pitch 'whine' than some of the others.
> 
> I want to try all of them!
> 
> Philbert



Yep! Man, they are getting real close to the 20 inch bar, full 3/8ths I want! Hasn't taken very long either.

I was reading the reviews on the greenworks 80 volt, supposedly works good, just the thermal shutoff (I assume they all have it) is touchy with the small battery. Supposedly they have much larger batts coming out soon (less discharge percentage from larger batt for the same power, which would mean less heat...guess, but I think that is correct). 

I would think most any of these they have out now, the high end ones, are more than practical for the one small saw occasional use crowd. Especially with them all being pretty much multi tool, same batts and chargers, etc.


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## Philbert (Mar 23, 2015)

ECHO Pricing

I spoke to someone today who stated that the saws were designed by ECHO and will be sold exclusively through Home Depot and HomeDepot.com for the time being. Should be available in a few weeks. Any service or warranty work would be done by a HD rental department. These saws should not need the kind of service and support that a tw0-cycle saw does, but you could still drop one and need to order parts.

$299 for the saw with 4.0AHr battery and charger.
$199 for the bare saw.
$169 for a spare 4.0AHr battery (a 2.0 AHr one will also be available)

Philbert


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## bikemike (Mar 23, 2015)

Yeah i like my cordless saws too. Variable speed and fast charge time of 30
Seconds


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## Treespotter (Mar 24, 2015)

Philbert said:


> Both of these have a higher pitch 'whine' than some of the others.
> 
> I want to try all of them!
> 
> Philbert


The high pitch whine has to do with the bar and chain. The body probably sounds like an electric toothbrush. 

There's a significant difference in noise when I use a Husqvarna bar and chain or Stihl bar and chain (yes, with a little work this is possible) on my Husqvarna 536. 
Husqvarna bar and chain produce way more noise than the Stihl combo.


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## Philbert (Mar 24, 2015)

Treespotter said:


> The high pitch whine has to do with the bar and chain. . . . There's a significant difference in noise when I use a Husqvarna bar and chain or Stihl bar and chain . . . .



Must be what they mean when they '_tune_' a saw?

Philbert


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## Treespotter (Mar 25, 2015)

[emoji1]


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## zemmo (Mar 25, 2015)

Just checkin' in. No sign of the brushless Oregon? I see they have an 80V saw now. It may be that they're chasing voltage numbers to no advantage, like they used to do with pixels in digital cameras. We'll see. My firewood season is over for the year, but I'll probably buy one next fall. Keep up the posts, y'all.


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## Philbert (Mar 25, 2015)

zemmo said:


> No sign of the brushless Oregon?


Due out 'this summer'.

Good point on voltage. We tend to associate more volts with more power, but the real test is how they perform. 

Philbert


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## zemmo (Mar 25, 2015)

'Twould make more sense to rate the batteries in watt/hrs, and to let us know the motor wattage as well. I see that both Tesla and Nissan (Leaf) have configured their battery packs at 360 VDC nominal, for what it's worth.


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## Philbert (Mar 25, 2015)

Apparently the European markets rate their batteries differently. And there is the business of '_36 volt_' and '_40 volt_' batteries really being the same, but measured differently. It would be nice to have uniform standards. But again, the numbers are only part of the story. Just like some 5occ saws outperform some 55cc saws.

I am more impressed with the larger capacities of the batteries, which increase usable run time. From 1.25AHr, to 2.4, to 4.0 becoming standard. I have seen some 6.0 AHr batteries as well. I don't know what the practical limitations are; I would not want to carry around one of those large backpack batteries, due to the weight. Not sure if the fire hazards of Lithium-ion batteries increases with the size either - we tend to think of battery saws as 'safer', because they don't store flammable fuels, but some batteries have their own issues.

Philbert


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## zemmo (Mar 25, 2015)

Ohm's law is international. The nominal voltage of nearly all these Li-ion cells is 3.7, though a freshly charged cell would be higher. A 2Ahr 80 volt (74V) battery pack has the same capacity and weight as a 4Ahr, 40 volt (37V) pack, measured in Whr. I don't want a huge battery, and it's important to keep the weight of the saw+battery down. I don't plan to use a saw like this to make noodles ;^} I think around 150Whr is my preferred max for weight. Although if the cells keep gaining capacity, as they have been, that could increase. I think Tesla has proven that even enormous Li-ion packs can be safe enough for consumer use.


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## Philbert (Mar 25, 2015)

zemmo said:


> I think Tesla has proven that even enormous Li-ion packs can be safe enough for consumer use.



Well, a Tesla, Prius, or Leaf, and a long extension cord, might be part of a nice scrounging package!
(I know that some of the ham radio guys already think of these vehicles as 'rolling battery packs).

Philbert


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## zemmo (Mar 25, 2015)

Philbert said:


> Well, a Tesla, Prius, or Leaf, and a long extension cord, might be part of a nice scrounging package!
> (I know that some of the ham radio guys already think of these vehicles as 'rolling battery packs).
> 
> Philbert


Yeah, if they'd come out with a 400 volt saw, you wouldn't even have to step down the voltage!


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## Treespotter (Mar 29, 2015)

120 volts first!
Later this week we get the 5120 LiXP in for some serious testing.


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## 7sleeper (Mar 29, 2015)

7


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## sawfun (Mar 29, 2015)

That 5120 looks as big as a 3120. If it weighs as much, those batteries should last a long time.


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## Treespotter (Mar 29, 2015)

It doesn't look as big as the 3120 sawfun, it is as big as a 3120! The housing is placed over the components. In the car industry this would be called a mule. Testing the technical components in a existing body. The saw in the picture is a fraction heavier than the 3120.


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## Philbert (Mar 29, 2015)

Is this a serious prototype? I assumed that it was a Photoshopped gag.

Philbert


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## 7sleeper (Mar 29, 2015)

Philbert said:


> Is this a serious prototype? I assumed that it was a Photoshopped gag.
> 
> Philbert


That's what I also thought. especially with a regular size battery how long will the cutting time last?!

7


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## Treespotter (Mar 29, 2015)

Twelve amps is not that regular. All mine are three an for all I know the 4. something is the biggest at the moment.


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## Treespotter (Mar 29, 2015)

It fits the same charger. Probably has to stay in there during the night. [emoji52]


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## 7sleeper (Mar 29, 2015)

Treespotter said:


> Twelve amps is not that regular. All mine are three an for all I know the 4. something is the biggest at the moment.


my bad. Thought it looked smaller.

7


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## Treespotter (Mar 30, 2015)

The battery is like a Pinoccio nose. It gets longer when you add exorbitant amounts of amps.


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## Philbert (Mar 30, 2015)

The ECHO 58V mower has ports for two, 4.0AHr batteries, but apparently, only uses one at a time. The Makita 36V saw has an option to use two, 18V batteries in tandem, for those who have already invested in their 18V tools. Maybe we will see more dual battery tools? Interesting to see the trade offs in battery sizes, weight, run time, etc. as these tools progress.

Philbert | Philbert


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## Philbert (Apr 7, 2015)

*Not a chainsaw, but this battery powered product really . . . . (well, you know)!
*
20 Volts, Li-Ion.

Philbert


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## zemmo (Apr 7, 2015)

Philbert said:


> *Not a chainsaw, but this battery powered product really . . . . (well, you know)!
> *
> 20 Volts, Li-Ion.
> 
> ...


My cordless Dyson works great!


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## Philbert (Apr 7, 2015)

zemmo said:


> My cordless Dyson works great!


Detachable battery or built-in?

BTW - I see these domestic items as great articles of persuasion/justification when buying a cordless chainsaw: "_Honey, I bought something for you and something for me. . . ._ "

Philbert


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## Philbert (Apr 9, 2015)

Started a separate thread on the ECHO 58 Volt saw here:

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/echo-58-volt-cordless-chainsaw.277864/

Philbert


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## zemmo (Apr 24, 2015)

Philbert said:


> Detachable battery or built-in?
> 
> BTW - I see these domestic items as great articles of persuasion/justification when buying a cordless chainsaw: "_Honey, I bought something for you and something for me. . . ._ "
> 
> Philbert


Built in.


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## Philbert (Apr 24, 2015)

It appears, that your vacuum and these chainsaws have more in common than we realized!

Although, they do not appear to make the Dyson, TTI does make several vacuum cleaners, including the cordless Hoover I mentioned (did not know this at the time of that post). Apparently, they also make many of the Rigid brand cordless tools, and the ECHO chainsaws for Home Depot, under license.




http://www.ttigroup.com/en/our_brands/

Philbert


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## Philbert (Jun 3, 2015)

Treespotter started a thread on his experience with the Ego battery powered chainsaw and blower. It deserves it own thread, but I am linking it here for reference.

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/egopower.281010/#post-5391785

Philbert


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## zemmo (Jun 9, 2015)

I see they've released the new brushless Oregon leaf blower, so the chain saw should be up shortly.


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## zogger (Jun 9, 2015)

zemmo said:


> I see they've released the new brushless Oregon leaf blower, so the chain saw should be up shortly.



I think that's the one I saw running at the local dealer. It had plenty of oomph to it. Didn't catch the model number though, but it moved air! I know the saw was not the brushless, because I'm the one that turned them on to the oregon battery tools and told them the brushless should be coming out soon. I also turned them on to fiskars axes and they sell quite a few now. 

Tried to get them interested in DHT splitters, but not much interest there, not sure why not, they sell a lot of chainsaws.


----------



## Philbert (Jun 9, 2015)

zogger said:


> I know the saw was not the brushless, because I'm the one that turned them on to the oregon battery tools and told them the brushless should be coming out soon.



According to Oregon press releases, the new, brushless saw (CS300) will have a similar profile, but a different color scheme (grey and black) than the current model (CS250 - red, black, and grey).

Philbert


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## Philbert (Jun 9, 2015)

Looks like the CS300 may be available in Europe?

Philbert


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## zogger (Jun 9, 2015)

Philbert said:


> Looks like the CS300 may be available in Europe?
> 
> Philbert



Arrgh! don't need it..want it!!
hahahahahahaha


----------



## Philbert (Jun 12, 2015)

Heard back from some Oregon Reps today. They said that they expect the new, brushless chainsaw to be available around 'mid-August' in the US. 
Europe may have a different release date (it is referred to as a '36 Volt' saw there).

Philbert


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## Chainsaw10 (Jun 17, 2015)

Just picked up the Kobalt 80v to try out. I returned my Ego and Echo....guess I'll give this a try


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## Philbert (Jun 17, 2015)

We need to have a cordless GTG where folks can try all these saws side-by-side!

But only the 'winning' saw manufacturer would be willing to sponsor it!

Philbert


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## Chainsaw10 (Jun 17, 2015)

Ok here's my first run observations. I charged the battery, which was already 2/3 full...took about 10 minutes with the quick charger. I pulled the trigger in my shop and it seemed a bit slow, but torqey. But as I went outside and cut into a log I realized that the brushless system is sensored. As you start digging into wood it kicks into higher gear and had much more power. This conserves battery life because it's only working at its full power when it needs to. 

I carved a bear for about 18 minutes when the battery finally was completely discharged ...NOT BAD!!(it's only a 2ah capacity battery). Run time was longer than the Echo which had a supposed 4ah battery. This saw is quite a bit lighter than the echo too. 
I was completely expecting to return this saw within says....but I think this is a keeper. If it performs like this on a regular basis I will be completely satisfied....and I'll pick up at least one extra battery. 

The battery was only slightly warm at the end of first use. The echo battery was hotter after just a minute or to of use. 

I will probably remove the 18" bar and use a 16"....I have a few that should fit. 

The Stihls age great smaller battery saws...and very durable . I use them every day for detailing and finishing carving. But I think I've finally found a saw that will let me do the bigger block out cuts on 3foot type carvings. And I have peace of mind that I'm not driving the neighbors nuts with too much noise. ...and it's so enjoyable, especially in the hot weather to carve with no hot hearing protectors on my ears


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## Treespotter (Jun 18, 2015)

I think we have a winner. 
[emoji122] [emoji126] [emoji135] [emoji322] [emoji323] [emoji367] [emoji457] [emoji573]


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## Chainsaw10 (Jun 18, 2015)

I've run 5 battery packs through the saw already. The batteries are getting a bit warm...but I don't know if that really matters. I'm happy with this saw. It's just what I was looking for. It's still no replacement for an average gas saw that can run a 18" bar, but it has its purpose.....for me the 10 or 15 minutes it takes to rough cut a medium size carving(and i do about 6 of these in a days work....so thats over an hour a day where I can limit my noise) It is not a saw for huge jobs, cutting lots of firewood or cutting 18" logs!! But It's a darn good saw to have on hand for small trees, limbing and odds and ends. I just hope it holds up. 

...and I know someone said this somewhere, but this IS the same saw as the GreenWorks 80v. The Lowes version is about $75 cheaper and more easy to return if you're not happy with it.


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## Philbert (Jun 24, 2015)

*WARNING - THIS STUFF IS STILL LIVE UNLESS THE BATTERY IS REMOVED!*

***I am posting this here due to the general interest in battery powered outdoor powered equipment (***). Many times, when I see someone pick up a battery chainsaw (etc.) their first impulse is to squeeze/test the trigger - not a problem with most gasoline powered tools, where it is easy to know if the engine is running. But it can be a real surprise with an electric tool, especially one without a cord which may be perceived as 'safe', less powerful, or even as a 'toy'. I explain this to anyone when handing them a battery tool; "_The tool is 'live' if the battery is installed_". I have also placed warning labels and even 'trigger locks' on some tools left out at GTGs.***

The report, below, appears to address manufacturing or design defects, with similar hazards.

_"After failing to report safety defects on its battery-powered mowers, Black & Decker is playing a $1.575 million fine after agreeing to a settlement with the Consumer Product Safety Commission and U.S. Justice Dept. The settlement marks the sixth time since 1986 that Black & Decker has paid fines for failing to report safety defects.

This most recent fine regarding battery-powered mower defects covers 11 years, beginning in 1998 when the company began receiving complaints the blades wouldn’t turn off even after the handles were released and safety key removed—and in some cases the blades would start spontaneously. At least two consumers were injured when blades started up while their mowers were being cleaned. According to reports, Black & Decker identified the defect in 2004, but waited until 2009 to report it to the CPSC. The company agreed to a recall of the machines in 2010.

In addition to the fine, Black & Decker must maintain an internal compliance program to ensure compliance with CPSC safety statutes and regulations and also will develop a system of internal controls and procedures including creating written standards and policies, allowing confidential employee reporting of compliance, and implementing corrective and preventive actions when compliance deficiencies or violations are identified."_

***Pull the batteries before working on battery powered tools!***

Philbert


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## Treespotter (Jul 5, 2015)

A couple of years ago I was at a trade show for Husqvarna Netherlands. On all their showcase machines they broke off the contacts from the batteries. When I saw them do that I was like "what the crap". Then I realized it would definitely keep the visitors out of the hospital.


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## Philbert (Jul 5, 2015)

It would not be hard for them to make 'dummy batteries' of the same weight for retail displays. Most of the time the 'real' batteries are discharged anyway (and it might discourage theft!).

Philbert


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## Treespotter (Jul 6, 2015)

That was our thought exactly.


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## Philbert (Sep 4, 2015)

Oregon says that their brushless C
S300 chainsaw is now available!

http://oregoncordless.com/product/chain-saw-cs300/#product-hreview

Philbert


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## zogger (Sep 4, 2015)

Philbert said:


> Oregon says that their brushless C
> S300 chainsaw is now available!
> 
> http://oregoncordless.com/product/chain-saw-cs300/#product-hreview
> ...



Yaaa! Whoops..just dropped my spare chainsaw funding yesterday, bought out all the good "customer no show-no pickup" equipment from the local dealer, a truckload, seven saws, three trimmers and a hedge trimmer..oh well..someone here will get one and do a review! Three of the saws work so far, the best a husky 359. I think the rest all still need some work, but the analysis is on the tickets, none of them are that bad.


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## Philbert (Sep 4, 2015)

zogger said:


> . . . seven saws, three trimmers and a hedge trimmer. . .


Going into business Zog?

Philbert


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## zogger (Sep 4, 2015)

Philbert said:


> Going into business Zog?
> 
> Philbert



Just accumulating stock for an eventual shop..maybe. Gives me something to do that is practical in the non mowing season, when I am not cutting that is. Anyway, you gonna get the new oregon saw?


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## Philbert (Sep 4, 2015)

zogger said:


> Anyway, you gonna get the new oregon saw?


Love to get my hands on one and compare it side-by-side with my CS250. 

Still would like to have a cordless GTG with a bunch of these saws. 

Maybe somebody will sponsor me to drive around the country doing demos of these saws?

Philbert


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## Philbert (Sep 21, 2015)

*Happiness . . .*

Is a warm puppy!
.
.
.
.
Or 40 volts . . .



(Was hoping to take it to a GTG yesterday, but neither one of us made it).

Will start a new thread later this week (linked here), with some initial comments on the CS300, and side-by-side comparisons with the CS250.

Philbert


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## Stihlman441 (Sep 22, 2015)

Im happy with this one


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## Philbert (Sep 28, 2015)

Philbert said:


> Will start a new thread later this week (linked here), with some initial comments on the CS300, and side-by-side comparisons with the CS250.



http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/oregon-cs300-40v-cordless-chainsaw.286385/

Philbert


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## CR888 (Jan 3, 2016)

Pageing Philbert!! Just thought you may be interested in a new range of products made by Australian *** manufactorer VICTA (best known for push mowers) They have a new 80v range that includes a saw what has a 18" b/c, brushless motor, rapid 30min recharge etc. Not sure how to post links and pics but a google search will let you find what I am talking about. Design is similar to the Oregon and others....check it out!


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## Philbert (Jan 3, 2016)

Be a sport and send some over for me to test? Or, send me a ticket and I will come on over to see them in person!

Greenworks also has 80V ***. . . . . 

Philbert


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## Philbert (Jan 3, 2016)

VICTA: http://www.victa.com/au/lithium-80v



Greenworks: http://www.greenworkstools.com/80v-pro/



Philbert


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## Chainsaw10 (Jan 22, 2016)

I just got a new toy today. A Dewalt 40v chainsaw. Only had time to carve with it for about 20 minutes, but that all I needed to know its a keeper!!
I use my 80v Kobalt often, but this Dewalt definitely has more power. ...and runtime(I got the saw with the 6aH capacity battery). Only used about half the battery capacity after about 20 minutes of carving.


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## Philbert (Jan 22, 2016)

Great! Will be really interested to hear your comments as you use it. Especially, compared to your other cordless saws. 

DeWalt has a good reputation for contractor tools.

Philbert


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## sawfun (Jan 22, 2016)

That sure is a nice looking saw and even in McCulloch colors.


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## Chainsaw10 (Jan 22, 2016)

I would say it's the closest thing to a gas saw that I've run yet. Lots of torque and chain speed. The echo I had for a short while was ok , but it was glitchy, had short run time and the battery got really hot. This Dewalt definitely has much longer runtime and seems very well built . The battery was really cool after running it too. 
It's a very comfortable and well balanced saw too.


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## zemmo (Jan 23, 2016)

Chainsaw10 said:


> I would say it's the closest thing to a gas saw that I've run yet. Lots of torque and chain speed. The echo I had for a short while was ok , but it was glitchy, had short run time and the battery got really hot. This Dewalt definitely has much longer runtime and seems very well built . The battery was really cool after running it too.
> It's a very comfortable and well balanced saw too.


How much does it weigh with the 6 A/hr battery?


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## zogger (Jan 23, 2016)

Chainsaw10 said:


> I just got a new toy today. A Dewalt 40v chainsaw. Only had time to carve with it for about 20 minutes, but that all I needed to know its a keeper!!
> I use my 80v Kobalt often, but this Dewalt definitely has more power. ...and runtime(I got the saw with the 6aH capacity battery). Only used about half the battery capacity after about 20 minutes of carving.
> 
> 
> ...


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## Chainsaw10 (Jan 23, 2016)

Holy crap!!...just when I thought this saw couldn't get any better, it did. Just for the heck of it I thought I would take my Stihl battery saw and the Dewalt apart to compare sprockets. I thought there would be no chance at all they'd be compatible, but sure enough they are exactly the same drum depth, width, and metal thickness. A perfect match!!! I now have my Dewalt saw set up running 1/4" .043 Stihl chain on a Cannon carving bar. I am so friggin thrilled!! This thing cuts smoother , faster , quieter and much more efficiently now with the mini 1/4" setup!!!!!


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## Chainsaw10 (Jan 23, 2016)

zemmo said:


> How much does it weigh with the 6 A/hr battery?


zemmo, I will weigh it tomorrow.


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## Franny K (Jan 24, 2016)

I was able to find an ipl (illustrated parts diagram) for the Dewalt 40v chainsaw not sure exactly how many variants there are but found DCCS690M1 type 1. I see it has a reduction gearing. My Husqvarna 36v is direct drive. Is the Stihl one direct drive? The way the sprocket attaches looks similar two flats on a round shaft.

The parts for electric tools seem to become no longer available faster than Husqvarna gasoline chainsaws, (well the model I have). I have had been unable to get parts for a Black and Decker grinder (Dewalt group) and a Milwaukee drill (both plug in type) which seemed a bit quick to go obsolete.

Any idea if any other source for hard nose 0.043 bars besides Cannon? I think that is what I see in the picture.


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## Chainsaw10 (Jan 24, 2016)

zemmo said:


> How much does it weigh with the 6 A/hr battery?


Dewalt chainsaw is 13 lbs 13 ounces with a 16"cannon .043 bar and 6ah battery. I have a 4ah battery on the way so I will let you know the weight difference when it arrives.


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## Chainsaw10 (Jan 24, 2016)

Franny K said:


> I was able to find an ipl (illustrated parts diagram) for the Dewalt 40v chainsaw not sure exactly how many variants there are but found DCCS690M1 type 1. I see it has a reduction gearing. My Husqvarna 36v is direct drive. Is the Stihl one direct drive? The way the sprocket attaches looks similar two flats on a round shaft.
> 
> The parts for electric tools seem to become no longer available faster than Husqvarna gasoline chainsaws, (well the model I have). I have had been unable to get parts for a Black and Decker grinder (Dewalt group) and a Milwaukee drill (both plug in type) which seemed a bit quick to go obsolete.
> 
> Any idea if any other source for hard nose 0.043 bars besides Cannon? I think that is what I see in the picture.


Yes it's a cannon .043 16" toonie tip bar. I don't think anyone else makes hard nose .043 bars?....

I'm honestly not sure what kind of drive these saws are. I've never had them completely apart.


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## Chainsaw10 (Jan 28, 2016)

Tinkering around in the shop and adapted a 1/4" sprocket to fit my Kobalt 80v chainsaw. This saw is a whole new beast now running .043" 1/4" stihl chain!! All electric and battery saws should use this chain. 3/8" .043 chain is junk in comparison. 1/4" is faster, smoother, more efficient(less strain on chain, bar, battery and motor).....and plunge cuts are easy and quick. Trying to plunge cut with 3/8" .043 chain is rough and slow..


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## Franny K (Jan 28, 2016)

The plunge cutting of Stihl 61pmm3 (0.043)wrapped on a Stihl shaped bar is what is recommended for professional plung cutting. Brand x chain has significantly different different nose properties. The 3/8 lp drive links are much larger than the 1/4 .... wear out a few bar slots and see how fast that goes. 

There are a lot of similar threads on here this one is supposed to be 36V.


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## Chainsaw10 (Jan 28, 2016)

Sorry Mr Pickypants....you are so serious. I think this Kobalt fits just fine in this thread. It's really in the same realm as the 36/40v saws....it really only has a bit more power. ....and I'm the only one on here who has owned many of the battery saws(both Stihls, echo, ego, ryobi, Dewalt, Kobalt). So I really think it's a good idea to post my thoughts about the 80v here too , in comparison to the 36v saws. I believe it could really help others reading this thread who are thinking about purchasing one of these saws.
I have also tried the stihl .043 3/8 chain on many setups, both on gas and electric saws. There is absolutely no contest between plunge cuts between the 1/4" .043 and the 3/8". 043. 1/4" is much better. Nothing Beats 1/4" .043 for precise, quick and smooth cuts.
The teeth on .043 1/4" chain are so thin and tiny, they are VERY efficient cutting and create very little friction when cutting. The bars are long lasting because of this.


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## Philbert (Jan 28, 2016)

Chainsaw10 said:


> Tinkering around in the shop and adapted a 1/4" sprocket to fit my Kobalt 80v chainsaw. . . . All electric and battery saws should use this chain.





Chainsaw10 said:


> The teeth on .043 1/4" chain are so thin and tiny, they are VERY efficient cutting and create very little friction when cutting.



It makes sense that the smaller 'bites'/chips would be a more efficient match with the battery powered motors. That said, the 3/8 low profile (standard kerf) chains have worked acceptably well on my Oregon 40V saws. I believe that the STIHL battery saws come with 1/4" pitch chains standard. 

A while back I did a comparison between the factory supplied PowerSharp chains, and a few other 3/8, low profile, low kickback chains (Type 91) on the Oregon saws, and found the PowerSharp chains slightly more aggressive, aside from the auto-sharpening feature. I don't do much plunge cutting, so can't comment on that.

I have not looked into 1/4" pitch chain for these saws, because I don't have the bars to go with it.

Philbert


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## Franny K (Jan 28, 2016)

The Stihl electric saws from their literature use 7 teeth drive on the larger and 6 teeth on the smaller and the pole pruner. The Husqvarna one if equipped for 1/4 pitch chain uses an eight tooth drive. I only have the 0.050 gague stuff in 1/4 inch pitch.


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## Chainsaw10 (Jan 28, 2016)

Well the Dewalt 40v is on its way back to Amazon..oiler quit workin today. Spent about 2 hours fiddling with it and cleaning/air compressoring ....no oil pumping at all. Amazon is replacing it for free as a defective product. I have Amazon Prime so I'll have another here in 2 days and I got a free shipping return label for the old one. . I'm hoping I got one with a defect, but realistically I expect the same thing to happen again. 
,....but the saw is great. Power, long battery run times with little heat, comfortable, ability to run 1/4"......I'm ticked the oiler is screwy so soon. 
I'm gonna run the crap out of the second one and hopefully it holds up....if not I'm getting a refund. I've got no qualms about returning crap these days.


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## Philbert (Jan 28, 2016)

They need to send more of this stuff to guys like us to work the bugs out!

Philbert


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## Chainsaw10 (Jan 28, 2016)

If this next Dewalt has problems I think I'll order the Oregon 40v. You seem to be very impressed with yours right?

But any way I'm thrilled I found a way to modify a 1/4" sprocket to fit the Kobalt.


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## Philbert (Jan 28, 2016)

Chainsaw10 said:


> If this next Dewalt has problems I think I'll order the Oregon 40v. You seem to be very impressed with yours right?


I am very happy with my Oregon 40V saw, ***but I am not using it for carving***. 

Philbert


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## Philbert (Feb 4, 2016)

Interesting article on batteries:
http://investingnews.com/daily/reso...m-investing/6-types-of-lithium-ion-batteries/

Not all Li-Ion batteries are the same.
If link does not work, Google some of these:

_"*Lithium-ion batteries are essential to modern technology, powering smartphones, laptops, medical devices and even electric cars.*
. . . it is important to note that rather than using lithium metal for battery technologies, manufacturers commonly use lithium carbonate or lithium hydroxide. Moreover, there is more than just one type of lithium ion-battery, and not all are created equal. Several lithium compounds may be combined with a variety of other materials in order to create lithium batteries, such as lithium cobalt oxide."_
*- Lithium Cobalt Oxide*
*- Lithium Manganese Oxide
- Lithium Iron Phosphate
- Lithium Nickel Manganese Cobalt Oxide
- Lithium Nickel Cobalt Aluminum Oxide
- Lithium Titanate
*
Philbert


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## Chainsaw10 (Feb 5, 2016)

Well.......Dewalt # 2 is being returned. Approximately 4 hours of use and the same thing happened that did with the first saw......no more oiling. The saw won't oil at all. I'm very disappointed....I wouldn't be disappointed if the saw was overall crap, but it's a fantastic tool. Except for the oiling system!!!! It over oils for the first few hours of runtime....then all the sudden there is ZERO oil. Same results on two saws. It would be nice if these IDIOTS tested these things before they are released on the market.


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## Philbert (Feb 6, 2016)

Bummer. Thanks for the review. You have given others something to keep an eye out for. 
Hopefully, they will work it out. Have you tried contacting DeWalt (not just the place you bought them from) about this?

Philbert


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## Chainsaw10 (Feb 6, 2016)

I called. But you can't get in touch with anyone who knows anything. I just got to talk to a beeatch with a severe attitude named Laquisha who spoke Ebonics...so she had no clue about anything. Is Dewalt a government run tool company?
I also tried emailing Dewalt through the their website. I took quite a bit of time to fill out my info and write a detailed description of my problem...but when I submitted it only showed ERROR, and wouldn't go thru.


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## Chainsaw10 (Feb 6, 2016)

Franny K said:


> I was able to find an ipl (illustrated parts diagram) for the Dewalt 40v chainsaw not sure exactly how many variants there are but found DCCS690M1 type 1. I see it has a reduction gearing. My Husqvarna 36v is direct drive. Is the Stihl one direct drive? The way the sprocket attaches looks similar two flats on a round shaft.
> 
> The parts for electric tools seem to become no longer available faster than Husqvarna gasoline chainsaws, (well the model I have). I have had been unable to get parts for a Black and Decker grinder (Dewalt group) and a Milwaukee drill (both plug in type) which seemed a bit quick to go obsolete.
> 
> Any idea if any other source for hard nose 0.043 bars besides Cannon? I think that is what I see in the picture.




Franny. Where did you find the illustrated parts list for this saw? Thanks


----------



## zogger (Feb 6, 2016)

Chainsaw10 said:


> Well.......Dewalt # 2 is being returned. Approximately 4 hours of use and the same thing happened that did with the first saw......no more oiling. The saw won't oil at all. I'm very disappointed....I wouldn't be disappointed if the saw was overall crap, but it's a fantastic tool. Except for the oiling system!!!! It over oils for the first few hours of runtime....then all the sudden there is ZERO oil. Same results on two saws. It would be nice if these IDIOTS tested these things before they are released on the market.



That sucks. You are a good customer for dewalt there, see if you can get a real engineer who is in charge of those saws on the phone. they might be experiencing a rash of that happening and maybe might work with you on a real fix. edit: I see you tried, never mind.

My first generation oregon saw still all works as intended.

Might be in your case just long constant runs overheated something simple like an oil pump gear or something. 

In the meantime, carving, perhaps a cheaper plug in saw instead? I know cords are a hassle, but..


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## Chainsaw10 (Feb 6, 2016)

I have what I believe is the most powerful plug in saw available....stihl mse 250c




It's ok. It's awkward and uncomfortable to handle, it doesn't cut as fast or smooth as the Dewalt......and yeah, the cord.
Very odd, uncomfortable handle grip setup on stihl plug ins(you're not grasping the top of the saw, but off center almost on the side)

I'm still going to try to contact Dewalt again. Wish I knew how to contact someone who actually has some technical experience with this saw. I think you're probably right....the oil pump can't handle the constant running when carving. Or interior oil line is collapsing or something from the heat.


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## sawfun (Feb 6, 2016)

Chainsaw10 said:


> I have what I believe is the most powerful plug in saw available....stihl mse 250c
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I would sure like to know how that mse250 compares to the mse220 in a real world experience. Maybe the 250 is. lt is heavier and will last longer but have less power compared to the new 250? I dunno, but it has more torque than any other electric, E30 types not withstanding.


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## Philbert (Feb 9, 2016)

Saw the 40V Greenworks saw at Menard's today. I think that it is the most expensive saw they sell. 

Philbert


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## Chainsaw10 (Feb 16, 2016)

I picked up a second Kobalt saw today, since I'm quite happy with the first one. ....and the first has had zero issues in over a years use. I want to run Stihl 3/8 .043 chain on one, and stihl .043 1/4" on the other..
The only small complaint about my old Kobalt 80v was the way the speed control was set up. Full power wouldn't kick in until the saw was cutting/had a load.....so chain speed was very slow when not cutting. 
....to my surprise this new saw is different. It goes straight to full throttle even with no load. Much better in my opinion, especially when I'm using the tip of the saw for detailing(in this situation I usually want as much chain speed as possible). Definitely an improvement. The motor or speed controller seem a bit different also....the new one seems to have more torque, but a hair less top chain speed. 
These are excellent saws , especially for the price. $300 for the saw, charger and battery.


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## Franny K (Mar 6, 2016)

Chainsaw10 said:


> Franny. Where did you find the illustrated parts list for this saw? Thanks


I have been away for a while. I was able to find it again. I put two links but could not link to the actual document but did download it and attached it.
http://www.dewalt.com/tools/outdoor-power-tool-equipment-dccs690h1.aspx

http://servicenet.dewalt.com/Products/Detail?productNumber=DCCS690M1


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## Philbert (Apr 19, 2016)

*Oregon WL275 Work Light*




Does this belong in this thread? I think so, as I have said many times, that, due to the '_relative'_ cost of the batteries, most users will buy into '_a family'_ of cordless tools (yes, there is a pun in there).

An Oregon rep had a prototype of this work light at WetGunPowder's open house last weekend. Apparently, they have been released in Europe (?), and a version is due soon in the US (?). They run off of the same 40V batteries (called 36V in Europe) as the other Oregon O-P-E. _AND_ (as Zogger once predicted!), _also_ run off of an A/C adaptor (but the adaptor does _not_ charge the battery, as I understand it).

Anyway, the only information I can find on the Web has been translated from German by Google (assume 120V for the US version):
_OREGON Battery Work Light WL 275 LED power supply
The new Oregon LED work light WL275 LED with power supply without battery can also be operated with a 230 volt power supply.
The use of time in a 4.0 Ah battery 24 h in the low and 12 hours in high switch position.
Techn. Data.
36V battery
230 Volt mains power supply
High light output High: 1091 lumens,
Low: 584 lumens
5000K color temperature Long Life LED
stable aluminum frame to adjust 90 °
safely stand
with support bracket_




Philbert


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## Franny K (Apr 19, 2016)

What is the instructions on the Oregon batteries as far as protecting from cold temperatures?
Have you put a volt meter on one to see what reading you get?
Something like that light should be able to work of a different battery and some wires and alligator clips or some other such method of connecting.


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## Philbert (Apr 19, 2016)

There are battery handling instructions in the user manuals (oregoncordless.com), including temperature guidelines.

Since the light runs off transformers, as well as the battery pack, there is clearly voltage step down going on. I don't have one to explore.

Similar, 120 V corded LED work lights are also available at home centers, if you want to experiment with other power sources. This one just works conveniently with the existing 40 V batteries that system users already have. 

Philbert


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## Franny K (Apr 19, 2016)

Philbert said:


> There are battery handling instructions in the user manuals (oregoncordless.com), including temperature guidelines.
> 
> 
> 
> Philbert


I can see why you did not give a direct answer.
"Store at a temperature between -4F to 86F (-20C and 30C)" but that is under the storage longer than 9 months. If there is short term storage section I did not invest enough effort looking for it.

The way I read the Husvqarna battery or saw manual (3 sets of instructions, saw, battery, and charger) was it could be used a little below freezing but the battery stored at least a couple of degrees above freezing of water temp. That may not be exactly how everyone interprets what I recall reading.


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## Philbert (Apr 19, 2016)

I store these Li-Ion batteries fully charged, in my basement. I have used these tools down to about 20 degrees F, which may not be optimal, but they worked. No heat from internal combustion to warm the batteries or bar/chain oil. 

Philbert


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## Chainsaw10 (May 2, 2016)

I finally pulled the trigger and bought the Husqvarna 536li xp. Expensive little bugger, but after using it for only a few minutes today it really seems to be the best battery saw I've used yet. 





I didn't even try the stock 3/8" chain/bar/sprocket. Went straight to the .043 stihl 1/4" stuff.


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## Philbert (May 2, 2016)

Hope to hear some specific comparisons with it's neighbors, and the other cordless saws you have used. I have only heard good things about the Husqvarna saw.

Philbert


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## Chainsaw10 (May 4, 2016)

I've run the saw for several hours now between yesterday and today's work. This is without a doubt the best battery saw that I've tried. 
It's is far more well balanced and comfortable to hold compared to the Stihls. I weighed them both, each with their 4.2ah battery and 12" stihl bar with mini 1/4" chain. The Stihl MSA 200c weighs 11lbs 10oz. The Husqvarna 536 LiXP is much lighter, weighing in at 9lbs 14oz. That nearly 2lb difference is a big deal to me when I'm carving with the saw for many hours a day. 
I have not timed any cuts, but I'm sure the Husky cuts faster.....it's definitely not anything drastically faster though. It is also harder to bog down the Husky to the point where power cuts out. 
I have not been a fan of Husqvarnas. I've owned a few of them over the last 20 years and had nothing but bad luck with every one of them. I had basically sworn them off and vowed never to buy one again, BUT?..... this saw is a winner!(at least short term). We will see about long term durability.


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## zogger (May 4, 2016)

Chainsaw10 said:


> I've run the saw for several hours now between yesterday and today's work. This is without a doubt the best battery saw that I've tried.
> It's is far more well balanced and comfortable to hold compared to the Stihls. I weighed them both, each with their 4.2ah battery and 12" stihl bar with mini 1/4" chain. The Stihl MSA 200c weighs 11lbs 10oz. The Husqvarna 536 LiXP is much lighter, weighing in at 9lbs 14oz. That nearly 2lb difference is a big deal to me when I'm carving with the saw for many hours a day.
> I have not timed any cuts, but I'm sure the Husky cuts faster.....it's definitely not anything drastically faster though. It is also harder to bog down the Husky to the point where power cuts out.
> I have not been a fan of Husqvarnas. I've owned a few of them over the last 20 years and had nothing but bad luck with every one of them. I had basically sworn them off and vowed never to buy one again, BUT?..... this saw is a winner!(at least short term). We will see about long term durability.



What was the freight on that little bad boy then?


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## Chainsaw10 (May 4, 2016)

I bought mine from Baileys as a carving saw package for $760 shipped. It came with saw, fast charger, 4.2ah battery, a 12" .050 1/4 pitch carving bar and chain and 1/4" sprocket. It also came with the stock 3/8 sprocket/bar/chain


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## zogger (May 4, 2016)

Chainsaw10 said:


> I bought mine from Baileys as a carving saw package for $760 shipped. It came with saw, fast charger, 4.2ah battery, a 12" .050 1/4 pitch carving bar and chain and 1/4" sprocket. It also came with the stock 3/8 sprocket/bar/chain



Well, you obviously get what you pay for!

I'm happy for my purposes now with my first gen oregon saw, but..as soon as there is a batt saw that can run a 20 inch bar and chain *well*, I think I'll add to the fleet. I am sold on lithium ion battery tech. Instant on/off, reliable running, no air filters fuel filters or tuning, etc..sold.


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## Franny K (May 4, 2016)

Chainsaw10 said:


> . I weighed them both, each with their 4.2ah battery and 12" stihl bar with mini 1/4" chain. .


What is the name or size of the Stihl battery you are calling 4.2ah? I divided their watt hour by voltage to try and compare and decided the Stihl battery was larger capacity. At least the closest one the AP 180 178wh/36v=4.94. the weights for the batteries seemed about that proportion as well.


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## Chainsaw10 (May 4, 2016)

The Stihl battery is labeled ap180
Here a pic of both battery labels with more info...


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## Chainsaw10 (May 4, 2016)

Stihl has a new lager capacity battery available just as of recently. The AP300. I have one of these on order from my Stihl dealer. The Stihl batts are awesome quality. Very long runtime, never get hot, plenty of power. ...and my two AP180's are probably about 2 years old now, and still working well(maybe just a little less run time). But still the same amount of power.
....and this larger capacity battery is the same weight as the AP180


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## Chainsaw10 (May 4, 2016)

Here's a mini owl I just rough cut with my new toy. Took about 10 minutes and the battery still shows 3 out of 4 lights still shining. I love getting these extra little carvings made at night, in my little shop after the kids are sleeping. Wasn't possible before these battery saws. Some bonus $$$
.... (Plug in saws SUCK. I have Stihls best plug in and it doesn't compare to these battery saws.


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## Philbert (May 8, 2016)

I noticed that the price of the Oregon batteries has really come down. The 2.4Ah batteries are about $80 and the 4.0Ah are about $139 - on line pricing. I don't track the other brands as closely - has anybody noticed any changes? Might be due to production efficiencies; might be due to maturing technology; might be due to competitive pressure.

Philbert


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## Chainsaw10 (May 8, 2016)

Yup, I just bought a new 6 Ah battery for my Stihls and it was $160. The original 4.2Ah batteries were $200 each(about 2 years ago). 
Nice to see the higher capacity battery is now cheaper than the lower ones used to be.... And it weighs exactly the same.


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## Philbert (Jun 3, 2016)

*BUMP!*

(just because I was charging my batteries . . . )

As noted in some other threads, I use the same batteries in a variety of other Outdoor Power Equipment (string trimmer, leaf blower, hedge trimmer, etc.), which is where the '_family_' of tools concept comes in. As a practical matter, I use that other stuff more than my cordless chainsaw and pole saw, but I only have them as a result of the battery saws.

Philbert


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## Franny K (Jun 3, 2016)

The chainsaw has the advantage of being able to turn it on and off real easy and talk about which branch to cut where in a pruning situation. The lack of gasoline, notably the odors of the vapors from the device in transport just do not exist on these electric tools. For me the string trimmer is pretty much continuous use and significantly more work to do than today's batteries are up to. I looked at a 1/2 inch impact, a Milwaukee one at a Fastenall place, was like $450 for the kit. Not sure any company has all the possibilities and a chord isn't all that bad if you have been using them for years. Or an air hose. Have you seen the little push type lawn mower Stihl offers?


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## Philbert (Jun 3, 2016)

Franny K said:


> For me the string trimmer is pretty much continuous use and significantly more work to do than today's batteries are up to.


Qualitatively, I have been generally satisfied with the battery performance of the Oregon chainsaw, pole saw, and string trimmer. Some of this depends on what you are cutting, or how long the grass is, having sharp chains, and having reasonable expectations. I always prefer the 4.0Ah battery over the 2.4Ah ones, as it lasts twice as long for the same weight.

The hedge trimmer surprising uses little battery life and runs on, and on, leaving multiple LED indicators lit. The leaf blower surprisingly uses a lot - it is very convenient, but drains the batteries quickly. I actually use it to 'finish off' batteries which are partially used (so that I can track the number of full charge cycles on each battery).



Franny K said:


> Have you seen the little push type lawn mower Stihl offers?


Seen photos of it only. Saw another brand in a big box store that used 2 batteries to drive 2 (independent?) motors and 2, small blades. Might be OK for light trimming tasks around a formal garden, where a full sized mower would not fit or maneuver well?



Franny K said:


> I looked at a 1/2 inch impact, a Milwaukee one at a Fastenall place, was like $450 for the kit. Not sure any company has all the possibilities and a chord isn't all that bad if you have been using them for years.



Some companies have the advantage or opportunity of sharing batteries with contractor type tools, as well as Outdoor Power Equipment which is an advantage for some. DeWalt, B&D, Bosch, Ryobi, Makita, etc. It may require a compromise in the design of one or the other, but certainly convenient if you are already invested in a battery system for one use, and have occasional need for the other. 

Until I got started with this Oregon system, I was all corded electric Outdoor Power Equipment at home (except for the snow blower!). It is still the least expensive and lowest maintenance option. Battery is the most convenient, but lowest power and most expensive. Gas is highest power and highest maintenance.

Philbert


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## Philbert (Jun 10, 2016)

Philbert said:


> *Oregon WL275 Work Light*
> An Oregon rep had a prototype of this work light at WetGunPowder's open house last weekend. Apparently, they have been released in Europe (?), and a version is due soon in the US (?). They run off of the same 40V batteries (called 36V in Europe) as the other Oregon O-P-E. _AND_ (as Zogger once predicted!), _also_ run off of an A/C adaptor (but the adaptor does _not_ charge the battery, as I understand it).



Started a separate thread on this.
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/oregon-40v-work-light-wl275.297835/

Philbert


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## NC Cutter (Jun 10, 2016)

Chainsaw10 said:


> I picked up a second Kobalt saw today, since I'm quite happy with the first one. ....and the first has had zero issues in over a years use. I want to run Stihl 3/8 .043 chain on one, and stihl .043 1/4" on the other..
> The only small complaint about my old Kobalt 80v was the way the speed control was set up. Full power wouldn't kick in until the saw was cutting/had a load.....so chain speed was very slow when not cutting.
> ....to my surprise this new saw is different. It goes straight to full throttle even with no load. Much better in my opinion, especially when I'm using the tip of the saw for detailing(in this situation I usually want as much chain speed as possible). Definitely an improvement. The motor or speed controller seem a bit different also....the new one seems to have more torque, but a hair less top chain speed.
> These are excellent saws , especially for the price. $300 for the saw, charger and battery.



Nice stuff you have there! Do you use the electric saws for carving exclusively or other chores as well? How do you have them set up for carving (bar and chains)? Any disadvantages besides price? Advantages over a gas saw?

Kind of thinking I might try my hand at some carving. The misses has seen some in the local general store she likes and of course I say "I can do that...maybe".


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## Philbert (Jun 10, 2016)

*And Just When You Think That You Have Seen The Latest Tool Or Accessory . . . . *



Philbert


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## Chainsaw10 (Jun 10, 2016)

NC Cutter said:


> Nice stuff you have there! Do you use the electric saws for carving exclusively or other chores as well? How do you have them set up for carving (bar and chains)? Any disadvantages besides price? Advantages over a gas saw?
> 
> Kind of thinking I might try my hand at some carving. The misses has seen some in the local general store she likes and of course I say "I can do that...maybe".



Thanks. The best battery saw setup for small carvings and details is definitely the Husqvarna 536li XP with a 1/4" sprocket and stihl 1/4" .043 bar and chain. ....I am using this setup over my ms150 and ms201 most of the time for small stuff. The kobalt saws are definitely decent for the price, but really can't compare to the stihl or husky battery saws. I will always grab a battery saw over a gas saw for small/ medium trimming and taking down small trees. 

I have many lengths, tip diameter and brands of carving bars for my electric saws...but I actually prefer the Stihl .043 1/4" roller nose bar for most work. These bars come standard on stihl batt saws and ms150's. These stihl bars are lighter and thinner than .043 cannon carving bars.


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## Mandres (Jun 10, 2016)

Why doesn't anyone offer this setup in a small, top handle saw? Seems perfect for climbing

Sent from my HUAWEI Y536A1 using Tapatalk


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## Chainsaw10 (Jun 10, 2016)

Both stihl and husqvarna do offer their battery saws in top handle versions.


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## Mandres (Jun 10, 2016)

Oh cool, I'll check em out

Sent from my HUAWEI Y536A1 using Tapatalk


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## Chainsaw10 (Jun 25, 2016)

Dewalt is coming out with a 60v battery saw next year....its batteries will be compatible with their 20v line....which I have drills and flashlights. So I'm looking forward to trying one. I had their 40v saw which was awesome power...better than husky or Stihl as far as power. But the oilers stopped working on two of the saws and I returned them.
I will definitely give this saw a try when it's released...hopefully they rework the oiling system
http://www.coptool.com/dewalt-flexvolt-cordless-20v-60v-or-120v-power/

Found quick vid
http://yooying.com/p/1277774338343506164


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## Philbert (Aug 12, 2016)

* STIHL Battery Backpack 


*

1,148 Ah, 15 kg (33 lbs) with backpack.

http://www.stihl.com/STIHL-power-to...ols/261316-1553/AR-3000-backpack-battery.aspx

Philbert


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## Chainsaw10 (Aug 12, 2016)

That battery pack is listed at $900.


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## zogger (Aug 13, 2016)

Chainsaw10 said:


> That battery pack is listed at $900.



Yep expensive. I would imagine the target market is commercial users who routinely deduct a lot of business expenses on taxes.


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## Philbert (Aug 13, 2016)

Husqvarna has one too.
http://www.husqvarna.com/us/accessories/battery/




They both look heavy and awkward. Maybe for all day weed whacking? But for most tools I would like the lower weight of smaller batteries.

Philbert


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## Philbert (Aug 13, 2016)

*Then, there is going the other way. 
*
Sounds like something that Zogger would have predicted: using _cordless_ batteries to power _corded_ 120 volt tools!




_"The DEWALT DCB1800M3T1 flexible portable power station with batteries is designed as a 4 port parallel charger. This 1800 watt portable power station operates with four 20V MAX* batteries in, 15 amps out; includes (1) 6.0 Ah flexible and (3) 4.0Ah 20V MAX* batteries. Take cordless power anywhere! 

Specifications: MAX AC output 3600 watts / rated AC output 1800 watts. MAX current (120V/240V) 30 amps / rated current (120V/240V) 15 amps. Required number of batteries - (4) 20V batteries. Indicator lights: inverter and charger, operation and fault, low battery.

Includes: (1) power station unit, (3) 4.0 Ah 20V MAX* batteries, (1) 6.0 Ah FLEXVOLT battery."
_
Philbert


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## Philbert (Sep 7, 2016)

*More New Battery Technology*

Keeps changing, just like Zogger's prophecy . . . 
http://flexvolt.dewalt.com/en-us/how-it-works

I have not tried any of DeWalt's _Out-Door Power Equipment_, but everyone knows their contractor tools. Just saw an ad for their new Li-Ion batteries that will work with 20V or 60V tools, switching automatically from 3 sets of 5 cells each in parallel (for 20V), to 15 cells in series (for 60V). The individual cell are 4V each if you are trying to do the math.

Batteries up to 9Ahr, and pairing of (2) 60V batteries for 120V tools.

_Verrrry Interesting!_

Philbert


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## Philbert (Sep 23, 2016)

DHT announces 120 v cordless outdoor power equipment. 

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/new-120v-li-ion-cordless-chainsaw.300372/

Philbert


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## Philbert (Nov 18, 2016)

*First Snow of the Season*

And lookie-look what THD has!





EDIT: apparently Home Depot has exclusive rights to this product for at least the first year in the US and Canada. There is also, apparently, a model that comes with (2) 7.5Ah batteries available on their websites.

Philbert


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## Franny K (Nov 19, 2016)

Philbert said:


> *First Snow of the Season*
> 
> And lookie-look what THD has!
> 
> ...



I would think you would want a two stage snowblower with caterpillar tracks judging from your location.

It does not in those pictures say if it uses lithium ion batteries. We have discussed prior the differing low temperature limits published for batteries Husqvarna vs Oregon. 

I am pretty committed to the Husqvarna stuff at this point with the reversible string trimmer, the top handle chainsaw, and the non extendable pole saw. If they come out with a larger chainsaw that I can plug both my batteries into chances are I would get one. Hopefully with a rim drive set up.

I took a piece of band saw blade and extended the bucking spike. Not sure what the designers had in mind with the stock one.


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## Philbert (Nov 19, 2016)

Franny K said:


> I would think you would want a two stage snowblower with caterpillar tracks judging from your location.


_MOST_ of our snowfalls are pretty light, and the smaller snow throwers / snow blowers with rubber paddles actually work better at cleaning down to the pavement. Occasionally there is a deep snow, or it gets packed hard by the plows, where a 2 stage machine with metal impellers is better. Like chainsaws, one could justify having a few different types for different conditions.



Franny K said:


> It does not in those pictures say if it uses lithium ion batteries. We have discussed prior the differing low temperature limits published for batteries Husqvarna vs Oregon.


EGO has a whole line of battery powered Outdoor Power (you know what). They have been around for several years with Li-Ion products. Cold weather performance is an interesting issue for battery powered stuff. With my chainsaws I quickly learned that there was nothing to warm the bar oil!
http://egopowerplus.com/



Franny K said:


> If they come out with a larger chainsaw that I can plug both my batteries into chances are I would get one.


Starting to see 120V stuff. Not sure if it is '_better_' or just '_different_'. Battery weight is always an issue with hand held equipment - less of an issue with wheeled equipment, like lawnmowers, snow throwers, tillers, etc.

Philbert


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## Franny K (Nov 19, 2016)

Philbert said:


> Starting to see 120V stuff. Not sure if it is '_better_' or just '_different_'. Battery weight is always an issue with hand held equipment - less of an issue with wheeled equipment, like lawnmowers, snow throwers, tillers, etc.
> 
> Philbert



Probably the weight savings and likely size savings are not in the batteries themselves. Talking to get to the same horsepower. Lower voltage stuff needs larger wires to get the same power. Most of the stuff pertaining to 230 volt vs 460 volt ac pertains. The savings I read on the internet for commercial sawmill stuff is pretty amazing. The wire size, the switch gear being some of the main factors.


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## Philbert (Nov 19, 2016)

Amps vs. Volts.

Philbert


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## Philbert (Dec 20, 2016)

Oregon just announced 6.0Ah batteries for their 40 V line of O*P*E:
http://oregoncordless.com/product/b650e-6-0-ah-battery-pack/




http://oregoncordless.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/***-Battery-Leaflet_online.pdf

Not sure how they keep fitting them in the same size package: must be better quality Amps?

Philbert


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## Philbert (Dec 28, 2016)

_"Cell technology continues to improve. Premium cell manufacturers, like those used by Oregon, continue to innovate and improve battery cell capacity. As a result, we're able to improve the runtime of our tools by 50% with the 6.0Ah battery over the 4.0Ah battery, by using the same number of, but simply higher capacity cells."
_
Philbert


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## Philbert (Jan 13, 2017)

*Snapper Battery O*P*E*

Somehow I missed this?

I was at an outdoors show today and saw this at a booth. Snapper, of course, is well established company known for its lawn and garden equipment.
('_The company began in 1894 as Southern Saw Works. . . . In 2002, __Snapper was acquired by Simplicity Manufacturing, which was subsequently acquired by Briggs & Stratton in 2004._' - Wikipedia)




The products are listed as 82 volts max*, with a nominal voltage of 72 V. I did not get a chance to cut with the saw at the show, but it has an 18" guide bar, with 3/8" low profile (Type 91) chain. The line includes several hand held tools, plus a wheeled lawn mower.

Snapper® Products 82V Max*
https://www.snapper.com/na/en_us/products/snapper-xd-82v-max.html




Snapper offers a 2 Amp-hour and a 4 Amp-hour battery. Interestingly, the 4 Ah battery is physically larger and significantly heavier than the 2 Ah battery - this is different than the Oregon batteries (see posts above), which have increased battery capacity while maintaining the same size and approximate weight. *Also note that the paper brochure I received states that the Snapper 4 Ah battery cannot be used with the chainsaw (!).




Apparently, Snapper has an older line of 60V O*P*E that this newer line replaces:

Snapper’s 60V Lawn and Garden System
https://www.snapper.com/na/en_us/support/how-to-articles/browse/cordless-lawn-equipment.html

Philbert


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## Philbert (Jan 13, 2017)

Snapper 82V Chainsaw





Philbert


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## Chainsaw10 (Jan 13, 2017)

That's just a rebadged green-works 80v/Kobalt 80v.


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## Philbert (Jan 13, 2017)

Chainsaw10 said:


> That's just a rebadged green-works 80v/Kobalt 80v.


Good catch. Wonder if the batteries are compatible?

Lowe's Kobalt 80V O*P*E https://www.kobalttools.com/outdoor-tools/80v

Greenworks 80V http://www.greenworkstools.com/product-category/80v-pro/

Philbert


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## Chainsaw10 (Jan 13, 2017)

Even though the Greenworks and Kobalt are the "same saw", the battery grooves are placed differently. Batteries are not interchangeable between those two. Not sure about Snapper.


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## Chainsaw10 (Feb 19, 2017)

https://www.makitatools.com/products/details/XCU03PT

Makita has a new brushless chainsaw. I just ordered it from CPO tool. Comes with dual charger and dual 5ah batteries. It also came with a free 18v drill(which I'll probably throw on eBay).$439.99 shipped
Can't wait to try it out.
Here's the CPO deal with bonus drill
http://www.cpoindustrialpowertools....less-chainsaw-kit/mktnxcu03pt,default,pd.html


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## KiwiBro (Feb 19, 2017)

Just added makita's 18v vacuum to the collection. IMO, better than the dyson stick vacuum, at about 1/5th the price.


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## Chainsaw10 (Feb 19, 2017)

This one?
36v back pack vacuum
Maybe I'll buy this for my wife....birthdays in April


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## KiwiBro (Feb 19, 2017)

No. Never knew they did what we call backvacs here.




I wonder if that backvac could be hooked up to a router table or table saw...


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## Chainsaw10 (Feb 23, 2017)

UPS showed up today with my new toy.
This saw definitely has some guts. It's funny how different so many 36v saws can be. This saw definitely has more power than Stihl and Husqvarna 36v saws. So far I love it. I experimented with the stock bar/chain(.043 3/8 Oregon ) for a while, then tried some Stihl 3/8 rapid super with a different bar..
I quickly nixed those two choices and rigged a 1/4" sprocket to fit. As I've found with all battery saws this is by far the best..(1/4" , .043 Stihl mini chain with 14" bar). THIS IS THE ONLY CHAIN THAT SHOULD BE ON ANY BATTERY SAW!!!!! It makes this awesome saw even awesomererer! 
I really like that this saw has an adjustable oiler. It's the first I've seen this on any battery or electric saw. 
The only thing I don't love is the power button. It's easy to turn on but if you aren't cutting for about 3 seconds it shuts off. You have to press the button to turn it back on every time. Not really a big deal but sorta annoying. The Husqvarna 536lixp has a similar safety feature but the saw stays on for about a minute before it shuts off. I wonder if this can be bypassed somehow. 

On a side note I ditched the crap Oregon chain that came with my Makita plug in electric. I made up a loop of Stihl rapid super 3/8 lo pro .050. This saw cuts 100% better with this chain.


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## Philbert (Feb 23, 2017)

Very sleek looking saw! How is the balance with the 2 batteries?

For those new to battery and electric saws, how does it compare with the corded saw sitting next to it?

Philbert


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## Franny K (Feb 24, 2017)

Chainsaw10 said:


> ........., then tried some Stihl 3/8 rapid super with a different bar..
> 
> 
> I quickly nixed those two choices and rigged a 1/4" sprocket to fit.
> ...



I suspect you mean picco super chain for the 3/8 pitch low pro type chain.

Does the Husqvarna sprocket fit? what does rigged up mean and how many teeth on the 1/4 that you did rig up?

I think the two batteries will fit in two pockets. Probably not a plus for your application.

I looked at the parts breakdown of this Makita saw. The one bar stud is my favorite design with two pegs/pins and the stud/bolt in the middle. Like the Husqvarna 338xpt gas saw I have. Also the bar contacts steel plates instead of plastic parts. Even looks like a real chain catcher.

It seems slower chain speed from the internet specs I found than the Husqvarna 536lixp
Makita-built BL brushless motor delivers 1,650 FPM chain speeds for fast cutting action
Husky****chain speed at max power 65.62fps which I computed to 3937 feet per minute. Save e mode is about 3/4 as I recall.


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## Chainsaw10 (Feb 24, 2017)

Yes Franny you are correct. ..it's Picco super. I can't keep track of all these different names they put on chains.

For a sprocket I'm actually using a 6 tooth 1/4" from a Stihl battery saw. I had to dremel off the drum then turn it round on a bench grinder. I already had this part hacked from another experiment. I just had to narrow it a bit to fit it to this saw.
I just pulled a 8 tooth sprocket from one of my Husqvarna battery saws. It does indeed fit. (Just needed one washer to space it out from the body of the saw). So 8 vs 6 tooth will increase chain speed significantly.
As far as chain speed goes. Somebody's math is wrong somewhere. I'm quite sure it's faster even with the 6 tooth. I don't have any way of measuring of course. I'm just going by sight, sound and speed of the cut. I'll use the husky and makita side by side in the same log today ...both with an 8 tooth sprocket.

The saw overall is well balanced and comfortable to use. It is quite comparable to the Makita electric, probably even faster with the 1/4" chain. The electric saw won't cut out as quickly if you're pushing hard though. For me personally I'd rather use the uncorded battery makita over the corded.


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## Philbert (Mar 1, 2017)

*New lines of STIHL cordless tools released*.

https://www.stihlusa.com/products/battery-products/

https://battery.stihlusa.com/battery-series

Appear to be 'homeowner' and mid-range lines to complement their existing battery tools.

Philbert


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## Philbert (Mar 1, 2017)

Philbert said:


> New lines of STIHL cordless tools released.



*AI* - 'integrated' (read '_built-in_') battery for _'quick tasks around smaller yards and condominiums._' Series includes: string trimmer, leaf blower, and hedge trimmer.

*AK* - separate battery and charger _'ideally suited for frequent use around suburban yards.'_ Series: includes chainsaw, string trimmer, leaf blower, and hedge trimmer.

*AP* - _'professional-grade power . . . for extensive use on a wide range of properties_.' Series includes: 2 chainsaws, 3 string trimmers, 2 leaf blowers, 2 hedge trimmers, 3 pole pruners, 3 lawn mowers, cut off saw. *This is the series of tools that have been offered now for a few years*.

Could not easily find Amp-hour ratings for the AI and AK series batteries, but clearly they are designed for lighter duty use, and to fill out price points, where consumers may have been looking at some other brands. Likely to be of less interest to AS members, who have been looking at battery powered tools going 'in the other direction' - more power, longer cutting life, etc. But please add any information if you have it on these series of tools, or if you have the opportunity to try any of them out.

Philbert


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## Franny K (Mar 1, 2017)

I noticed wandering around Makita has a 7 1/4 inch circular that uses two of these batteries. Two that add up to 36 volts if they are in series. I am kind of committed to Milwaukee and Husqvarna at this point.


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## Philbert (Mar 1, 2017)

Franny K said:


> I noticed wandering around Makita has a 7 1/4 inch circular that uses two of these batteries. Two that add up to 36 volts if they are in series. I am kind of committed to Milwaukee and Husqvarna at this point.


Same as the chainsaw (about 6 posts up, and in an earlier top handled chainsaw). The battery platform is so critical to contractors who are heavily invested in these common, interchangeable batteries and chargers. Not so much for someone specifically investing in a cordless O*P*E line (e.g. their chainsaw batteries do not have to be compatible with their cordless drill, but should also run their string trimmer, pole saw, etc.).

Still, the future seems to be leading to higher voltage (80V, 120V, etc.) and higher capacity (6Ah+) batteries.

Very interesting as a consumer / observer.

Philbert


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## Franny K (Mar 1, 2017)

I see in the catalog for that Makita circular saw speed 0-4800rpm that would be a first for me a variable speed circular saw. Not all these things are brushless. The electric brake feature generally makes a pretty big spark inside the tool, guess that is for corded as well. I see 36 volts in the title and 18 volts in the specs. Find it yourself. I get all kinds of advertising from links posted on these forums.


----------



## 7sleeper (Mar 1, 2017)

One thing I read in a german forum from a german Stihl dealer is that Stihl certifies their chainsaw for "rain use", while other manufacturers are supposed not to. 

7


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## DND 9000 (Mar 1, 2017)

Philbert said:


> Could not easily find Amp-hour ratings for the AI and AK series batteries



AI series:
BGA 45: 18 Volt, 5 cell, 2.5 amp, 45 Wh
FSA 45: 18 Volt, 5 cell, 2 amp, 36 Wh
HSA 45: 18 Volt, 5 cell, 2 amp, 36 Wh

AK series:
BGA 56: 36 Volt & 2.8 amp, 100 Wh with AK 20 battery
FSA 56: 36 Volt & 1.4 amp, 50Wh with AK 10 battery
HSA 56: 36 Volt & 1.4 amp, 50 Wh, AK 10 battery
MSA 120 C: 36 Volt & 2.8 amp, 100 Wh with AK 20 battery

Batteries:
AK 10: 36 Volt, 1.4 amp hr., 50 Wh
AK 20: 36 Volt, 2.8 amp hr., 100 Wh


----------



## Philbert (Mar 1, 2017)

Thanks! That's great!

(_divide Wh by voltage to get Ah rating_)

Interesting to see that the AI series are 18V . . .

Philbert


----------



## Ryo Saeba (Mar 10, 2017)

What's the verdict on the echo 58v saw? Home Depot has refurbished ones on sale for 200 bucks with a battery which looks pretty tempting. I did see it getting poor reviews when it first came out though which is why I'm asking y'all.


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## Philbert (Mar 10, 2017)

I'm interested too. More info intbis thread:
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/echo-58-volt-cordless-chainsaw.277864/#post-5310691

Philbert


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## Philbert (Mar 20, 2017)

*Not Sure if This Counts . . . .*

(it _IS_ battery powered O*P*E!!)


*Ryobi RM480e 38 in. Battery Electric Riding Lawn Mower*

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Ryobi-RM480e-38-in-Battery-Electric-Riding-Lawn-Mower-RY48110/300246266

_"Powered by 75Ah Batteries and with 2 hours of run time this mower is a green alternative to traditional gas riding mowers. The Ryobi 48-Volt Riding Mower comes equipped with 38 in. 2-Blade Deck and 12 Position Manual Deck Adjustment to get a clean, level cut on your lawn . . . LED Headlights, USB Phone Charger and Cruise Control features making mowing as efficient and convenient as possible. . . .Charges through standard 120-Volt outlet"
_
Philbert


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## Franny K (Mar 20, 2017)

Looking at all the choices where that battery riding mower might fit it seems that this site is configured in a way to minimize lawn mower discussion. It certainly isn't a chainsaw. I looked at the pictures and watched the little video and could not tell if it has a hole to pull the trailers that go with that size riding mower. A good portion of folks on here probably put firewood in a trailer like that. Quite minimal ground impact, at least on the wider tired trailers. It takes a 42 inch deck to make it through a 4 foot chain link fence gate so it is not much smaller than that.


----------



## Philbert (Mar 20, 2017)

Bigger than a walk-behind. Smaller than a golf cart. More expensive than . . .

Could be a good in-between size for the right lawns, if it performs well. 

Philbert


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## Philbert (Mar 21, 2017)

*Sumthin' I Saw While Picking Up A Free Tape Measure . . . 
*


http://www.harborfreight.com/40v-lithium-14-in-cordless-chain-saw-63287.html

"_The 14 in. electric chain saw is better than gas for most yardwork and landscaping uses. The powerful brushless motor runs quiet and starts instantly. No more mixing gas and oil, this powerhouse runs on the exclusive Lynxx 40V lithium-ion battery system. Ideal for pruning, limbing, and cutting fallen branches this high power cordless saw has an oversize comfort grip and low-kickback design for safety._

_Quiet-running, instant power_
_Automatic chain oiler_
_Cut branches up to 14 in. diameter_
_Perfect for limbing and pruning_
_Low kickback design"_
_2.5 Ah battery_
_60 minute quick charger_
_Oregon bar and chain_
Part of a whole new family of 40V O*P*E at Harbor Freight

Philbert


----------



## Philbert (Mar 28, 2017)

*And the beat goes on . . . *



Looks like Husqvarna launched a homeowner line of cordless O*P*E. Saw this at Lowe's (minus battery and charger).

I like that these use the same batteries as their 'Pro' cordless tools - keeps things simpler than having 3 different, non-compatible options (as STIHL has done with their different lines).

For more info: http://www.husqvarna.com/us/products/battery/

Philbert


----------



## Philbert (Mar 28, 2017)

*
Also . . . *

Looks like Oregon is releasing their LM300, 40V lawn mower this year in the US - it was listed on some European websites last year.

http://oregoncordless.com/product/lawnmower-lm300/

Interesting that they show options for buying it as a 'bare tool' (no battery), or with their 4.0Ah battery pack, but not with their new 6.0Ah battery pack. Guess that they don't want you to have too much fun?

Philbert


----------



## Philbert (Apr 17, 2017)

**Started a new (related) thread on Pro Grade Cordless Chainsaws**

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/pro-grade-cordless-chainsaws.308926/

Philbert


----------



## Mandres (Apr 18, 2017)

Philbert said:


> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Ryobi-RM480e-38-in-Battery-Electric-Riding-Lawn-Mower-RY48110/300246266
> 
> _"Powered by 75Ah Batteries and with 2 hours of run time this mower is a green alternative to traditional gas riding mowers. The Ryobi 48-Volt Riding Mower comes equipped with 38 in. 2-Blade Deck and 12 Position Manual Deck Adjustment to get a clean, level cut on your lawn . . . LED Headlights, USB Phone Charger and Cruise Control features making mowing as efficient and convenient as possible. . . .Charges through standard 120-Volt outlet"_
> Philbert



That's interesting, I wonder how the drive mechanism works? It looks like there's a rear axle/differential that must be hooked directly to an electric motor. Or it might be a belt-driven hydrostatic transmission instead? I'm going to see if I can find a parts list anywhere online.


----------



## Mandres (Apr 19, 2017)

So I found a good pic of the drive train on this Ryobi mower. It's very similar to a golf cart - no hydraulics involved. Should be very reliable as long as the batteries hold out, and you don't overwork it (really tall grass, pulling heavy leads, etc.) It probably has a lot of control circuitry in the motor controller to prevent damage in case someone tries to hook up a plow or mow through a corn field. It uses four lead-acid batteries (no lithium). I hope they catch on, so I can pick up a used one in a couple years to play with.


----------



## stillhunter (Apr 19, 2017)

I'm looking for a cordless saw to limb and top some tall trees in my yard so I can rope and drop the trunks myself. I would use a climbing tree stand and safety harness or 2. I like the idea of not having to crank a small gas saw and the instant on/off. The most dia. would be about 12" or so and most cuts less than that. Any recommendations besides not using the tree stand?


----------



## Philbert (Apr 20, 2017)

Can't give you any advice about climbing, but Makita and Husqvarna both make top handle, battery operated chainsaws. 

Philbert


----------



## Philbert (Jun 8, 2017)

Started a new thread on the Redback 120V battery saw, here:

http://www.arboristsite.com/communi...20v-lithium-cordless-battery-chainsaw.310665/

Philbert


----------



## Philbert (Jun 10, 2017)

*TORO*

Hard to keep up - their world headquarters is 11 miles from my house, but I 'tripped' over this on HomeDepot.com. They had been mentioning this for a few years, as part of their large lawn and garden equipment offerings;
https://www.toro.com/en/homeowner/yard-tools/40v-14inch-chainsaw-51880



Has a feature that I have secretly wanted for some time: ability to charge my cell phone!!!




Philbert


----------



## Franny K (Jun 10, 2017)

Philbert said:


> *TORO*
> 
> Hard to keep up - their world headquarters is 11 miles from my house, but I 'tripped' over this on HomeDepot.com. ....................
> 
> Philbert



I followed your link and actually found the parts sheet with clickable items. Was curious how much a sprocket cost, the sprocket and all other parts say this

"This item is not available for sale online. Please contact your local participating Toro Dealer."


----------



## Philbert (Jun 10, 2017)

Franny K said:


> "This item is not available for sale online. Please contact your local participating Toro Dealer."


Toro generally supports a strong dealer network. They do sell some products through stores like Home Depot, and allow on-line sales of some products. I see lots of Toro OEM parts sold on-line, so I assume that this is also allowed, but they do not sell consumer products or parts direct as far as I know.

I also assume that if you have a genuine Toro part number, you could contact any local or on-line Toro dealer and they could look it up for you. Since these saws are so new, I doubt that they would have any in stock, and you may have to 'educate' them a bit!

Philbert


----------



## Philbert (Jun 10, 2017)

*Battery Technical Info*

Ran across what looks to be a great technical reference for the batteries used in these products:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/confusion_with_voltages

Philbert


----------



## Franny K (Jun 11, 2017)

I read at least the portion pertaining to lithium ion cells from the link above. Got to wondering if the 40 volt devices are really 36 volt devices just a bit different way of representing the same thing as voltages according to that go down as they discharge.

I took my Husky battery cover off and got my meter which seems to have a few dead spots. I could not get any readings past 12 or so, perhaps for a fraction of a second before it held steady and that was rare. I did manage to get a high reading and actually photograph it with the tool running full speed. Never got quite 40 and the picture I did get after darkening it a bit shows 39.9.

This battery sure appears to have 16 cells. Kind of amazing how clean it was inside as the chainsaw (unlike the pole pruner and string trimmer) blows air through it if the chain is moving. How many cells are in your 40 volt Oregon stuff? The article states 3.7 volts per cell and this does not make a lot of sense to me at the moment.




Those little pellets are gypsy moth caterpillar turds and the tailgate was put down about dusk yesterday evening, it is not noon yet.

I would guess that is a 12 gauge wire heading to the main connection of the tool.

What is missing from that link is how the cells degrade with cycles or time or storage at various temperatures.


----------



## Philbert (Jun 11, 2017)

Franny K said:


> I took my Husky battery cover . . . This battery sure appears to have 16 cells. . .


*I don't take my batteries apart, and don't encourage others to do this, since Lithium has this nasty habit . . .* 

I know that there are several YouTube videos of folks dissecting various battery packs that you can watch.

10 * 3.6 = 36 volts, so I assume that a 36v battery has 10 cells (might reach 40v nominal); a 58v battery has 15 cells; an '80v' (really 72v?) has 20 cells; 120V has 30+/- . . . ?

Philbert


----------



## Franny K (Jun 11, 2017)

I have not wandered around all the sections of that website you linked to but my Husky battery certainly has four cells in a row on each end and sure looks like four shall we call them columns. You can see the connecters I figure there is a set of connecters under insulating tape at the springs. You may have figured it out though just one cell in the central two columns. And the void is packed full of chips filtering the air explaining why it is so clean inside. 

I took the cover off I did not take the battery apart.


----------



## Philbert (Jun 16, 2017)

*Battery Tool Rental Kisoks?*
(Only in Sweden for now!)




Philbert


----------



## rayjay257 (Jun 16, 2017)

I saw a Snapper cordless chainsaw at Wally the other day. Pretty flimsy looking. Did I say that I am SOOOO happy with my Stihl ??


----------



## bikemike (Jun 16, 2017)

I love my stihl cordless saw. Charges in about 30
Seconds


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## Philbert (Jun 16, 2017)

rayjay257 said:


> I saw a Snapper cordless chainsaw at Wally the other day.


The Snapper O*P*E were mentioned a few pages back - another member identified them as re-badged Greenworks products. 

Philbert


----------



## rayjay257 (Jun 26, 2017)

I ran my MSA120 all the way down to the low V warning today. About 3/4 way through the morning I remembered I hadn't checked the bar oil and it looked dry so I stopped and filled the reservoir and dribbled some lube on the chain/bar rubbing surfaces and spread it around. I also sharpened the chain for the first time. I use a Dremel tool and Dremel's chainsaw sharpening kit. The smallest stone they make is a tiny bit too large in dia but worked just fine especially since the one that was mounted in my tool was a bit worn.


----------



## Philbert (Jun 26, 2017)

That's a problem with corded electric chainsaws too - they don't run out of fuel to remind you to check the bar oil!

Philbert


----------



## KiwiBro (Jun 29, 2017)

Haven't read the last few pages so excuse me if this has been noted, but the Green Works 80v is on sale at Walmart for just under $180 ($115 discount at in store checkout) and on Amazon for just over $180 (for Prime members).


----------



## Philbert (Jun 29, 2017)

Not seeing those prices over here - but I am not a Prime member. Their 40V saws are heavily discounted though.

Good deals for the right users!

A sign of new or updated products out soon?

Philbert


----------



## Philbert (Jul 1, 2017)

Not a chainsaw, and only 20 volts, but this looks like a handy item, assuming that it is well made:








Could be useful when you don't have a (pressurized) garden hose, or access to a full sized pressure washer. About $120. Lots more info on YouTube.

Philbert


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## Philbert (Aug 10, 2017)

Oregon 40V Multi-Attachment System



Available in Europe. I like the angled hedge trimmer and extendable pole saw. Also, that it uses the same system batteries.

Philbert


----------



## Franny K (Aug 10, 2017)

Philbert said:


> Oregon 40V Multi-Attachment System
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It uses a powerhead and attachments presumably with a drive shaft. Having the electric motor on the end and the battery on the other end has a different balance which may or may not be desirable. There are similar devices with a gasoline powerhead and different attachments not sure their advertising in the sound track is really appropriate about not having to have multiple gasoline engines. Having a reverse choice on the string trimmer like the top of the line Husky one is something gasoline options do not have at least at this time.


----------



## Philbert (Aug 10, 2017)

Update: Oregon says that this 'PS600' system is now available in the US, even though it is not shown on the US website yet.



Franny K said:


> Having the electric motor on the end and the battery on the other end has a different balance which may or may not be desirable.


Tool balance is important: something that the tool designers have to 'balance', with the weight of the battery, battery port, motor, shaft, and cutting tool / head.

On a purpose built tool, they can choose to adjust the balance based on the intended use. Professionals may prefer purpose built tools for that reason, as well as letting multiple employees work at the same time.

Individuals and casual users usually like the cost savings of a multi-tool, as well as being easier to store and transport than several full sized tools.

I have not seen these in person, but they do appear to have a shaft drive from the video. I think that the _blade_ for the brush cutter is reversible, to provide more cutting edges before sharpening or replacement, not the motor. If the motor was reversible, then the pole saw could also run backwards (an interesting idea!).

The video also mentions a 1/4 pitch chain on this pole saw; the Oregon PS250 uses narrow kerf, low profile chain (Type 90).

Key thing is that this new system integrates with their family of 40V batteries, chargers, and other tools that folks have bought into, and suggests that it will be supported for some time.

Philbert


----------



## Philbert (Aug 11, 2017)

Excerpt from a larger Oregon Cordless publication (below) that shows an edger attachment instead of the brush cutter. Not sure if this is a difference with the European offerings, a change, or maybe both will be offered? Anyway, it gives some idea on pricing (system pricing with batteries and chargers in larger PDF file).







Philbert

https://oregoncordless.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/CTS-Brochure_NA_2017.pdf


----------



## Franny K (Aug 11, 2017)

* Fully charged battery voltage measured without a workload is 40 volts. Nominal voltage is 36 or 37 depending on battery used.


----------



## Philbert (Aug 11, 2017)

Franny K said:


> * Fully charged battery voltage measured without a workload is 40 volts. Nominal voltage is 36 or 37 depending on battery used.


Yes. In Europe the Oregon products are marketed as 36 Volts.

Philbert


----------



## Philbert (Oct 11, 2017)

*Might Have to Change the Name of This Thread*

"_Have you registered for the GIE+EXPO yet? We'll be at booth #3182 showcasing our newest 120V Battery Series. The series is quiet, gas-free and engineered for true commercial-grade power._" (Oregon Products FaceBook page)



I have no info, but it looks like a backpack blower and a backpack battery powered tool in the photo.

Philbert


----------



## rayjay257 (Oct 11, 2017)

I've used my Stihl several times over the past few months and am still very happy with it. I had a LOT of limbs come down via Irma plus a huge 69"+ circumference poplar and have been using the Stihl where it's applicable.


----------



## Philbert (Oct 17, 2017)

Kind of how I test stuff in my backyard. Except, I don't wear the white lab coats: grass stains are hard to get out, and it might freak out the neighbors (more). 



Seriously, I was hoping to see dynamometers, test fixtures, instrumentation, etc. in this video. 

Philbert


----------



## Philbert (Oct 24, 2017)

*A 'Little' More Info on Oregon 120V Cordless Products*

https://www.oregonproducts.com/120VProSeries

Hope to see more info on batteries, backpack, etc., as they get closer to release date. 


Philbert


----------



## Duct Tape (Nov 12, 2017)

Would love to hear some more performance and battery life reports for the rear handle Husky 536. Thx.


----------



## Franny K (Nov 12, 2017)

Duct Tape said:


> Would love to hear some more performance and battery life reports for the rear handle Husky 536. Thx.


About 1.5 square feet per minute in oak and 2.0 square feet a minute in pine. Cross cut in large section or cant. I think I was able to drain the battery in 800 seconds even that was not as continuous as one could go on purpose. 4.2ah battery BL150 or something like that. I kind of doubt the energy in the battery equates to 2 fluid ounces of gasoline's capacity burned in a two cycle engine. I think I did a report, from memory something like 60% would be the gas saw time. That is with the same chain. It actually went fastest with Stihl Ps and Stihl 1/4 Rm13 not the thin (.043) picco 3/8lp at least in cant type testing. Can not force it like gas saw it trips a breaker and have to let go and depress again.


----------



## Philbert (Dec 20, 2017)

*Battery Reminder*

Li-Ion batteries hold a charge for a long time, but if you are not going to use your battery O*P*E over the winter, and don't use the batteries for other tools, it would be a good time to give them a top off charge now.

Also, the instruction manuals that come with some batteries advise against charging frozen batteries, so let them warm up if they have been stored outside in freezing temps.

Philbert


----------



## Philbert (Feb 5, 2018)

*Kobalt, Greenworks, Snapper Chainsaw Recall:*

https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2018/C...zard-Distributed-by-Hongkong-Sun-Rise-Trading

_"The chain brake guard in the cordless electric chainsaw can fail and allow the chainsaw to continue operating, posing an injury hazard to users.

This recall involves Greenworks, Kobalt and Snapper brands of cordless electric chainsaws. The recalled chainsaws have a 16 or 18-inch saw and an 80 or 82-volt lithium ion battery. “GreenworksPro,” “Greenworks Commercial,” “Kobalt,” or “Snapper” is printed on the saw blade. The model number and item number (if applicable) are printed at the top of the warning label underneath the chainsaw_ _switch"_

Philbert


----------



## Philbert (Mar 2, 2018)

Linking a new thread posted by @TreesFall on a new ECHO DCS-1600 cordless saw:
https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/echo-dcs-1600.318696/




ECHO news Release:
https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/echo-dcs-1600.318696/

50V.

Not sure if this will be sold in the US. The Current ECHO cordless O*P*E are essentially a Home Depot exclusive, and listed as 58V. Not sure if the batteries are compatible, as sometimes they are listed differently in different countries (e.g. Oregon is listed as 40V in US and 36V in Europe).

Philbert


----------



## Philbert (Mar 6, 2018)

Courtesy of @TreesFall :


Philbert


----------



## MtnHermit (Mar 23, 2018)

Philbert said:


> That's a problem with corded electric chainsaws too - they don't run out of fuel to remind you to check the bar oil!



Can only speak to the Greenworks 40V but it has a translucent window clearly showing oil level. From experience 2 battery charges and the oil tank needs a refill. Also, the sprocket cover needs removing for the massive accumulation of oily chips.


----------



## Chainsaw10 (Jul 25, 2018)

Just got this Milwaukee cordless saw today. I saw a few very positive reviews on it and thought I’d give it a try. I don’t understand it, but this 18v saw has more power than any 36v, 40v or50v saw I’ve owned...and I’ve had a lot of them. I only had a chance to make a few cuts but it seems promising.


----------



## Philbert (Jul 25, 2018)

More torque, lower chain speed?

Look forward to your review.

Philbert


----------



## Chainsaw10 (Jul 25, 2018)

No. Seems to have both lots of torque and speed. I made a few cuts thrown go some very dry hard 12” walnut logs, and it zipped right through. I had to pick one up. I saw a guy review it that also has the Dewalt 40v...and he said it had more power than the Dewalt. I also had 2 Dewalt 40v saws at different times. ..I loved them, tons of power and runtime. But the oilers failed on both of them after about 5 hours of use. I’m hoping this Milwaukee is durable.


----------



## Snap (Aug 3, 2018)

Philbert said:


> Yes. In Europe the Oregon products are marketed as 36 Volts.
> 
> Philbert


Black and Decker plays that same game but not crossing country lines.....40 volts, 36 volts...all the same. The 40 volt tool seems to have "36" in it's model number.


----------



## Snap (Aug 3, 2018)

Chainsaw10.
Can you share any information on the drive assembly?


----------



## rayjay257 (Aug 3, 2018)

Snap said:


> Black and Decker plays that same game but not crossing country lines.....40 volts, 36 volts...all the same. The 40 volt tool seems to have "36" in it's model number.


I just measured the voltage of my Stihl batt and it has 39.4. It's been at least a month since it was charged and probably has 10 mins of use on small stuff up to maybe 2" dia. Still showing 4 bars on the charge indicator.

ETA, the next time I charge it I will check it at full discharge and just off the charger.


----------



## Snap (Aug 3, 2018)

rayjay257 said:


> I've used my Stihl several times over the past few months and am still very happy with it. I had a LOT of limbs come down via Irma plus a huge 69"+ circumference poplar and have been using the Stihl where it's applicable.



Where do you consider it inappropriate? 
Does it replace a gas saw?


----------



## rayjay257 (Aug 3, 2018)

Snap said:


> Where do you consider it inappropriate?
> Does it replace a gas saw?


Here is a thread I started -

https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/stihl-msa120c-cordless.310022/page-2#post-6379009


----------



## Philbert (Aug 4, 2018)

Snap said:


> Does it replace a gas saw?


The key thing is matching the saw to the task. This is a forum where some members have many different saws for many different applications.

Based on my experience, the battery saws I have used could replace a 40cc gas saw in most situations, especially if the user has a couple of batteries to swap out. There are, of course, other considerations when comparing gas to battery power, including ease of use, convenience, maintenance, remote use, cost, etc. But in terms of cutting power, a typical user could replace a smaller saw with a good battery saw, and do many tasks that a 50cc get used for. I really like my battery pole saw too.

And they just keep getting better.

Philbert


----------



## rayjay257 (Aug 4, 2018)

This pic tells my story. Big stuff, 20" Stihl 039. Anything 8" and under, Stihl MSA120c cordless. My 14" and 16" saws almost never get used.


----------



## Philbert (Aug 4, 2018)

Silver maple. 
Redback 120V, with 18" bar and (1) 2.0Ah battery.
(And 'safety chain'!)

Philbert


----------



## Snap (Aug 4, 2018)

Since the title also noted "and outdoor power equipment" I thought this video might be of interest. It is long but talks about various aspects in the comparison of two battery and one gas trimmer.


----------



## Philbert (Aug 5, 2018)

47 minutes?
What's the Cliff Notes version?

Philbert


----------



## Snap (Aug 5, 2018)

Philbert said:


> 47 minutes?
> What's the Cliff Notes version?
> 
> Philbert



My wife is a teacher. Cliff Notes aren't allowed in our house.


----------



## KiwiBro (Aug 5, 2018)

Philbert said:


> 47 minutes?
> What's the Cliff Notes version?
> 
> Philbert


Testers still felt the 2-stroke had more poke but once bogged took longer to get back up to working RPM's. Of the two battery options tested, a slight win to the Milwaulkee.


----------



## Franny K (Aug 5, 2018)

Philbert said:


> 47 minutes?
> What's the Cliff Notes version?
> 
> Philbert


The Husqvarna one has a direct drive motor and a reverse mode. The others are shaft and gear. I think the Makita one is also motor near the string.


----------



## Philbert (Aug 5, 2018)

Easy to get hung up in the specs (e.g. '36 Volt' versus '58 Volt'). Bottom line (no pun intended) is in the cutting / performance.

I had been using the Redback 120V string trimmer with frustrating results: it had tons of power, but I could not control it. Kept scalping my lawn. Then I realized that the head rotates in the _reverse_ direction (counter-clockwise from the operator's point of view) from every other string trimmer I used. Once I got that into my head, I could use and control the power provided.

With battery powered tools, the location of the motor is sometimes offset to balance the weight of the battery. Or designers want to run wires instead of flex shafts. Lots of choices. Still, I am less picky about string trimmers and leaf blowers than I am about chainsaw, pole saw, (and now lawn mower) performance.

Philbert


----------



## Snap (Aug 5, 2018)

Philbert said:


> I had been using the Redback 120V string trimmer with frustrating results: it had tons of power, but I could not control it. Kept scalping my lawn. Then I realized that the head rotates in the _reverse_ direction (counter-clockwise from the operator's point of view) from every other string trimmer I used.
> Philbert



That would be the same for the HD EGO trimmer. The reservation I'd have with that is the they only take a proprietary CC rotation head, not aftermarket products and there are "hate it" reviews for issues of the head so a buyer could be stuck after the sale.


----------



## Philbert (Aug 5, 2018)

I first thought that EGO might be another 'flash-in-the-pan' company, but they have been around for some time now, and I have only seen positive reviews. Was exclusive to Home Depot in the US for a while. Seem to be more popular in Europe?

Philbert


----------



## Snap (Aug 5, 2018)

Philbert said:


> I first thought that EGO might be another 'flash-in-the-pan' company, but they have been around for some time now, and I have only seen positive reviews. Was exclusive to Home Depot in the US for a while. Seem to be more popular in Europe?
> 
> Philbert



I've seen negative reviews but only about the heads. The company appears to try to make things right in replacing them, but it's like a (Chrysler) Jeep that I had that had 3 rearends installed in the first 40,000 miles. When the design is in question, and that's not commentary on EGO , no amount of warranty replacement is going to make it right when they don't redesign. That's why I stumble on a trimmer that will not accept aftermarket heads and turns in the opposite direction anyways. Their latest thing is a carbon fiber shaft. There might be a joke there about the name EGO.


----------



## Philbert (Aug 14, 2018)

STIHL MSA 160 T top-handled arborist saw

https://www.stihl.com/p/media/download/en-com/msa-160-t-brochure.pdf





Philbert


----------



## Snap (Aug 14, 2018)

Philbert said:


> STIHL MSA 160 T top-handled arborist saw
> 
> https://www.stihl.com/p/media/download/en-com/msa-160-t-brochure.pdf
> 
> ...




Handsaw quicker?


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## Philbert (Sep 18, 2018)

*Updated Craftsman Saws?*
(excerpt from another site)

_"Back in 2017, we reported that Stanley Black and Decker had purchased the Craftsman name from Sears . . .

Along with mowers, the new Craftsman lawn and garden lineup includes some landscaping tools on the brand’s cordless 20V and 60V platforms. One of the products the brand seems most excited about is an axial blower on the Craftsman V20 platform. It features 350 CFM at 100 mph, and a variable speed control with turbo boost.

We also had a good time playing with the new Craftsman cordless chainsaws. Both a 20-volt and 60-volt version are available. We thought that the 60-volt version, in particular, handled itself pretty well with this pine log."_

Philbert


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## Philbert (Dec 18, 2018)

*The Field Keeps Expanding . . . (and 'adapting')
*
I was a little skeptical about the first battery-powered chainsaw I tried. But I knew that the cordless contractor tool lines were growing exponentially. Now we have lawn mowers, snowthrowers, and all kinds of outdoor power equipment I never dreamed of, powered by compatible batteries, along with ice fishing augers, lights, etc.

DeWalt introduced battery packs where the internal cells 'reconfigure' internal connections (series to parallel) to 'automatically' change from 20 volts to 60 volts, and a 'power station' that either charges the batteries, or 'back feeds' 1,800 watts @120 volts as a power source:
https://www.dewalt.com/products/gea...ion-and-simultaneous-battery-charger/dcb1800b



I recently saw that EGO introduced an adaptor for it's Li-ion battery packs that also let you tap into the power for other uses, such as charging your cell phone, or running smaller electronics from the same source. Very convenient to have it all on one battery platform.

https://egopowerplus.com/nexus-escape/



Who knows what we will see next week!

Philbert


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## Philbert (Mar 9, 2019)

*Not a chainsaw, but definitely 'Outdoor Power Equipment'


*

Saw this at a trade show recently. Makita battery powered wheelbarrow!
https://www.makitatools.com/products/details/XUC01X1

Philbert


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## Mandres (Mar 10, 2019)

I've seen that one too, kind of a strange product. I guess there's a hub motor in the front wheel? I don't see any drive chain/belt so it must be. I wonder how long it runs off a couple of 5ah batteries. It can't be that long, especially loaded down with weight


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## Philbert (Mar 10, 2019)

Mandres said:


> I've seen that one too, kind of a strange product. I guess there's a hub motor in the front wheel? I don't see any drive chain/belt so it must be. I wonder how long it runs off a couple of 5ah batteries. It can't be that long, especially loaded down with weight



_"You can use one or two Makita 18 Volt LXT® batteries: Use one 6 amp-hour battery and get up to 60 minutes of run time under load. _"

More details on their website. Also a few YouTube videos if you look for them.

Philbert


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## Philbert (Mar 28, 2019)

Got a chance to look at some newer STIHL battery stuff today at a dealer's open house. 





Some battery packs that hang on the belt (or in a backpack) that connect AP batteries with a cable and an adapter to their PRO line products, and directly to some heavier duty products: string trimmers and their KM multi-tool accessory line. 

This stuff just keeps getting better!

Philbert


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## Philbert (May 17, 2019)

*'Inside' look at an Oregon 120V Battery Pack*
_Equals 33 (?) 3.6V battery cells?_



Also, big discount available for commercial landscapers, non-profits, schools, etc. in S. California (see PDF)

Philbert


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## Franny K (May 17, 2019)

My guess is Oregon is using the 4.0 volts instead of the nominal 3.6. I see two blocks of six across and five high. 4.0*6*5=120. the upper and lower blocks in parallel, not sure what is on the left of the above that I cropped out.


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## Philbert (Jun 5, 2019)

*Battery Life Expectancy*

This came up in another forum, so I raised this question with an Oregon representative, and this was his reply (edited for length and clarity):

_'Our Lithium Ion batteries have a life expectancy of up to 1,000 recharges, which is likely more than 10 years for homeowner use._

_You can get the best life expectancy if you store the batteries in optimal condition (ambient temperature, 20°C / 68°F). Leaving the batteries for long periods in too cold or too hot temperatures will degrade the cells and shorten their life._

_Using the batteries with more powerful tools at their full power (e.g in 'turbo mode') will shorten the number of recharge cycles. Assuming that you use your batteries with a variety of tools, it’s fair to say up to 1,000 recharges._

_Life expectancy depends as well of the type of cells you put in the batteries. If you put cheap cells, you may get half, or even fewer, recharge cycles. For our Oregon batteries, we only source cells from the top tier manufacturers (Sony, LG, Samsung, Panasonic).'_

Philbert


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## Philbert (Nov 28, 2019)

Most interesting 'Black Friday' ad I have seen (at the store where 'You Save BIG Money!':




Philbert


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## Snap (Nov 28, 2019)

Doesn't look like any of the sister Husqvarna models.


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## Philbert (Nov 28, 2019)

Snap said:


> Doesn't look like any of the sister Husqvarna models.


You are right. At first glance, it looked something like this one:




But the Jonsered is 58 volts, not 36 volts. Must be a new line?
https://www.jonsered.com/us/products/chainsaws/cs16i/967701001/

EDIT: Looks like it also may be a companion to the Poulan Pro 58V line (also by Husqvarna):
https://www.poulanpro.com/us/products/chainsaws/prcs16i/967701101/




Philbert


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## rayjay257 (Nov 28, 2019)

I used my Stihl MSA120c today to trim the top out of a large hedge plant. I had used it earlier in the week on some 2 to 3" limbs hanging over my drive. This is my favorite saw for anything up to 6 or maybe at a stretch, 8" dia. The guy across the street used this saw for some limbing and really liked it. Then he went out and bought the Makita 18+18 saw because it came with a grinder. It's not nearly the saw the Stihl is and he is regretting the purchase.


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## sawfun (Nov 28, 2019)

rayjay257 said:


> I used my Stihl MSA120c today to trim the top out of a large hedge plant. I had used it earlier in the week on some 2 to 3" limbs hanging over my drive. This is my favorite saw for anything up to 6 or maybe at a stretch, 8" dia. The guy across the street used this saw for some limbing and really liked it. Then he went out and bought the Makita 18+18 saw because it came with a grinder. It's not nearly the saw the Stihl is and he is regretting the purchase.


Wow, I say that because I like my 18 + 18 volt Makita.


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## Philbert (Nov 29, 2019)

Preferences are often personal. 

I appreciate folks sharing their honest opinions in these forums, even if they don't agree, or even if I disagree with them. 

That's why there are 2 kinds of peanut butter, 2 kinds of music, etc.

Philbert


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## Remle (Nov 29, 2019)

The thing with cordless tools is that they’re not really a mature technology yet. The tools of today are significantly better than those of just 5 years ago. My Stihl 066 isn’t really that much different than an MS661. Even older 70’s and 80’s era gas saws were still pretty decent. Cordless tools on the other hand are destined for obsolescence much sooner. I’ve got a nice 18v nicad DeWalt drill that’s probably only worth about $25. Back in the day it was $200+. 

To some extent they’re the kind of tools you want to buy cheap, work hard and wear out.


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## Mandres (Nov 29, 2019)

I'm staying with makita because they seem committed to the same battery format across the line. The same two packs run my drill, driver, circ saw, chainsaw, grinder blower and weed eater. I like some of the other brands individual tools better, but it's not worth the cost of new batteries and chargers for me.


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## sawfun (Nov 29, 2019)

Mandres said:


> I'm staying with makita because they seem committed to the same battery format across the line. The same two packs run my drill, driver, circ saw, chainsaw, grinder blower and weed eater. I like some of the other brands individual tools better, but it's not worth the cost of new batteries and chargers for me.


Same here.


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## rayjay257 (Nov 29, 2019)

Remle said:


> t. Cordless tools on the other hand are destined for obsolescence much sooner. I’ve got a nice 18v nicad DeWalt drill that’s probably only worth about $25. Back in the day it was $200+.
> 
> To some extent they’re the kind of tools you want to buy cheap, work hard and wear out.



I bought the Milwaukee 18V chainsaw when it was on a $299 'special purchase' deal that included an extra 12AH battery. Then I lucked into a one of the 1/2" drill & 6mm hex impact packages in well used condition with no batt or charger for $20!! $10 each ! 5 miles from the house ! They are beat up but work perfect. I may eventually buy more M18 yard tools when I see them cheap but the thing against them is they are HEAVY ! Heavy is bad when your neck , shoulders and back have seen better days. What's ironic is that I have used the Milwaukee chainsaw to cut down and clean up one tree but I have used the drill and impact quite a lot .

I have B&D 18V nicad tools of every description. I have a B&D 20v lithium 'cordless broom' blower that is very light and does ok for me. I have B&D 20v sanders. The cool thing I have is Ebay adaptors that let me use the B&D 20v batts in the 18v tools. I also made some adaptors that allow me to use the B&D 20v batts in other brands. This is the key to maximum usage. You just have to monitor the batt condition yourself and STOP using the batt the second the rpm drops below full boogie. ​
I have a Milwaukee 12v NiCad 3/8" square drive impact from the 90s when I was doing dirt bike and ATV repair. You can buy batts off Ebay cheap and I made my own adaptor to use the B&D 20v.

I have a Milwaukee M12 lithium 3/8" square drive ratchet. 

I have a Ryobi 18v One+ 1/2" square drive impact. Very stout on setting 3 , strong on setting 2 and equal to the somewhat weak 12v NiCad impact mentioned above. This tool has been the surprise of the whole lot. More power than my 120V late 70s American made 1/2" impact that it replaced. The other 2 settings make this tool usable in a lot more situations without worry of breaking things off.

So yes I hear you about only having one batt family to keep up with but you will be making a lot of compromises [ that you may not even be aware of  ]. I like having the ideal tool for the job. Keeping up with multiple batts and chargers isn't that big a deal to me. There have been times during fab projects that I have had 5 or 6 or more drills, impacts, saws, etc spread around the work area. No changing bits or sockets


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## Philbert (Nov 29, 2019)

Remle said:


> The thing with cordless tools is that they’re not really a mature technology yet.


Won't be 'mature' until after I'm dead. 

Same with my computer. Nothing functionally 'wrong' with it, but it's technically 'obsolete '. 

Philbert


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## motorhead99999 (Nov 29, 2019)

I have a Milwaukee m18 chainsaw that I bought to notch poles building pole barns. I have around three dozen batteries 6 of which are 12aph and a ton of m18 fuel tools so I figured why not. Well iv had it about a year and my wife uses it more around the house than I do at work. It works awesome I just can’t not use my 200t


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## Philbert (Nov 29, 2019)

Philbert said:


> Most interesting 'Black Friday' ad I have seen (at the store where 'You Save BIG Money!':
> 
> Philbert



My local store had 1. Went fast. 

Philbert


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## andy at clover (Nov 29, 2019)

motorhead99999 said:


> I have a Milwaukee m18 chainsaw that I bought to notch poles building pole barns. I have around three dozen batteries 6 of which are 12aph and a ton of m18 fuel tools so I figured why not. Well iv had it about a year and my wife uses it more around the house than I do at work. It works awesome I just can’t not use my 200t


I’ve got M18 stuff too and really depend on it for work.
That said... There is very little satisfaction using a cordless chainsaw!
The m18 offering works great but... chainsaws were never corded.
Getting rid of a cord that was never there ?? Well, what else can you say.

I still can appreciate these saws for situational use.
The new gen. batteries and brushless motors have opened “it” up that for sure.


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## Philbert (Nov 29, 2019)

andy at clover said:


> There is very little satisfaction using a cordless chainsaw!



The convenience factor is hard to beat. Try one out: buy it at a place like The Home Depot where you can return it if you don't like it. 



andy at clover said:


> The m18 offering works great but... chainsaws were never corded.
> Getting rid of a cord that was never there ?? Well, what else can you say.



Actually, the first STIHL chainsaws were corded electric !

Philbert


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## andy at clover (Nov 29, 2019)

Philbert said:


> The convenience factor is hard to beat. Try one out: buy it at a place like The Home Depot where you can return it if you don't like it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I’ve have used and Agree... very handy.
The m18 polesaw I own and the 16” chainsaw I’ve used to fall and buck a few alders.
The polesaw is a primary tool around here and has been a strong contributor.
Super impressive but still somehow does not match the feeling of the power of a well tuned motorsaw!


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## Snap (Nov 30, 2019)

Videos that I've seen show the pro model Husqvarna as capable but by the time the battery and charger get added to the saw invoice a bank loan is needed to buy one. Can they possibly be selling many?


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## Philbert (Nov 30, 2019)

Couple of things:

Yeah, some quality tools can be expensive, compared to others. But at a Pro level, costs must be balanced against benefits. 

Additional cost gets spread across many jobs, and gets written off as a business expense. 

And. in some places, especially Europe, there are incentives to use electric and battery powered equipment. Including noise laws. 

Philbert


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## Franny K (Nov 30, 2019)

Philbert said:


> The convenience factor is hard to beat. Try one out: buy it at a place like The Home Depot where you can return it if you don't like it.



One can get virtually any Makita product via the Home Depot website, hardly any Makita stuff in the brick and mortar places. Not sure how that relates to returning if not pleased. BTW there are at least two 18+18 Makita chainsaws, the one in the grinder package is not the rear handle direct drive model.


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## rayjay257 (Dec 13, 2019)

Franny K said:


> One can get virtually any Makita product via the Home Depot website, hardly any Makita stuff in the brick and mortar places. Not sure how that relates to returning if not pleased. BTW there are at least two 18+18 Makita chainsaws, the one in the grinder package is not the rear handle direct drive model.


My neighbor bought the grinder package so his must be the other one.


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## Franny K (Dec 13, 2019)

rayjay257 said:


> My neighbor bought the grinder package so his must be the other one.


My apologies, Since I posted that I have seen the rear handle direct drive xcu03 in a grinder package. I would search for a four battery package. not a two tool and two battery. The xcu02 is the dual battery top handle which is pretty awkward to use in my opinion. Not sure what all I posted in this thread. The rear handle direct drive one I like but eventually the turning itself off will likely lead to taping the operator present lever in. After a while of having it shut off after a few seconds I ended up keeping the operator present lever held in which isn't too safe. I figured taping it was better. It still times out pretty much like the Husqvarna one just the husky starts the clock from the last time the chain moved not when the operator present lever was released. When it gets to gloves turning it on many times a minute gets tired.


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## Philbert (Jun 2, 2020)

*Good Article on Battery Maintenance for Chainsaws*









Caring for Your Battery-Powered Chain Saw


As one might expect, the maintenance and care of battery-powered chain saws is easier and less expensive than that of their gasoline-powered counterparts. Oth




tcimag.tcia.org






Philbert


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## OM617YOTA (Jun 2, 2020)

Thanks Philbert.


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## Pioneer (Jun 2, 2020)

A friend and his uncle bought a top of the line Stihl cordless saw. Hella expensive, but it works very well and they have used it so much already it would probably have paid for itself by now if an arborist was using it. 
So, you can justify the cost if it fits you're needs and you feel like you would get your use out of it.


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## WDG (Jun 2, 2020)

I use my chainsaw infrequently enough for the carb to give me a headache, when I do need it. 

My next saw will be from the same battery family (Kobalt 80v) as my mower and blower. Worth the reduction in maintenance issues, for my use.


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## OM617YOTA (Jun 2, 2020)

I have that Kobalt 80v saw, easily my most used saw. Does 99% of the cutting around the property and a surprising amount of the firewood cutting. Bought it because I'm well invested in that battery and charger line already, and it took the same 3/8 low pro chain I already had a bunch of loops of. Very happy with it.


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## The Lorax (Jun 3, 2020)

One of the biggest advantages for pro arborists is the fact that you can start much earlier in the morning on a removal than with a petrol saw. I see plenty of them in use in Urban areas and community type setups where a guy running a 200T at 7am may not be made to feel welcome.
Did anyone think that when the first cordless makita drills came out that they would make most corded drills obsolete eventually?
They were just seen as a novelty and a small handy drill that could be used on the space shuttle..


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## oldfortyfive (Jun 3, 2020)

The Lorax said:


> One of the biggest advantages for pro arborists is the fact that you can start much earlier in the morning on a removal than with a petrol saw. I see plenty of them in use in Urban areas and community type setups where a guy running a 200T at 7am may not be made to feel welcome.
> Did anyone think that when the first cordless makita drills came out that they would make most corded drills obsolete eventually?
> They were just seen as a novelty and a small handy drill that could be used on the space shuttle..


I had a Makita 7.2v drill in the early 80's


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## Philbert (Jun 3, 2020)

oldfortyfive said:


> I had a Makita 7.2v drill in the early 80's


Some of those are still running!

I tried a Sears battery drill in the '80's and was not impressed; limited power and short run time. Cordless drills today are a different story. I have spoken to contractors who tell me that they don't even carry extension cords in their trucks any more. And when I go to tool / contractor shows, I am blown away to see table saws, air compressors, etc. run off of batteries. Of course, so are Teslas and Harley-Davidsons.

Makita has some small, battery powered chainsaws in the '80's and '90's, suitable for trimming work. The advent of the Lithium-ion batteries, brushless motors, and 36 Volt (+) platforms really changed things. I use battery powered lawn mowers, hedge trimmers, string trimmers, blowers, etc., along with chainsaws and pole saws. Have not tried the snow blowers yet. But the range of tools available is why *I tell people to take the time and look at the whole battery platform (all the tools that accept the same batteries) before buying their first battery tool*. The battery and charger can easily be over half the cost of the tool. Once you have a couple of compatible batteries, you can buy 'bare tools' at around half the cost, as well as share the batteries among the different tools.

Philbert


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## The Lorax (Jun 4, 2020)

I have seen stuff on YouTube of commercial forestry operators here using the Husqvarna Battery saws for thinning work, they were very impressed with the run time.
Not alone that a very big benefit was the lack of fumes in very restricted areas with little or no air movement.
Under big palm tree canopies is another place where they are very good for the operator again because of no fumes.
Philbert is right, look at the battery platform and then go from there, if you work in residential areas there is a whole slew of battery 0PE available from trimmers to brushcutters and chainsaws.
Choosing the right platform might mean you are able to start and finish a lot earlier than you used to be able to do because of the silence.


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## Philbert (Jul 29, 2020)

Started a new thread on the Husqvara 540iXP and T540iXP saws:





New Husqvarna Battery Chainsaws


Watched a webinar today which discussed some newer Husqvarna battery powered chainsaws: 540i XP (rear handle) and T540i XP (top handle). They claim to have the power of a 40 cc 2-cycle saw. Also, include more 'PRO' features, such as more magnesium in the housing instead of plastic, and...




www.arboristsite.com
 




Philbert


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## WDG (Aug 9, 2020)

I picked up the Kobalt 80v in July, and last week started using it. Very nice. 

It comes with an 18” Oregon bar & chain, but I put a 14” on it for use in the tree, since I already had it. 

The noise factor is definitely an advantage, and it’s nice to not need muffs to run it. Also nice to not have to fiddle with starting a saw in the tree.


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