# minority arborists



## ROLLACOSTA (Jul 3, 2004)

this is not a racist thread by any means and i mean any means !!,but this is merely an observation..are there any climbers /arborists from ethnic minoritys out there ie african americans ,chinese ,indians,asians etc..i have never seen a black climber overhere in the uk!! i have read about some good mexican climbers !. i wonder why this proffesion is domanated by caucasians surely people from other races are interested in the welfare of trees and the enviroment ??.i also wonder why this site is dominated by guys from USA ,UK ,AUSTRALIA ,NZ and CANADA ??..no arborists from other countrys [especialy developing countrys] seem to join our enthusiasam for this work again this is merely an observation i would have thought arborists from across the world would have joined our discussions.with all the global warming ,encroaching deserts ,high winds ,landslides,etc etc the world suffers

sorry forgot Grigory [our russian pal]


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## SteveBullman (Jul 3, 2004)

i too have noticed that rolla. i did see one black guy at the apf show 6 years ago though.


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## Guy Meilleur (Jul 3, 2004)

I subbed to an hispanic climber for a while, until he used truck and eqpt for personal biz unauthorized. He was gifted in agility, but little awareness of biology.

In consulting I see a lot of poorly=planted trees. Many planters are open to information on doing it right; two hispanics I met with info reacted in a personal, prideful way and would not consider changing.

I know there are individuals w diverse ethnicity who could and would learn to do tree work right, but how to reach them?


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## SteveBullman (Jul 3, 2004)

lets hope his straw shack is waterproof then


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## Stumper (Jul 3, 2004)

I'm a minority-Ain't nobody else quite like me! Seriously Rolly, I think that there are 2 reasons that you see mostly Yanks ,Brits, Aussies and Kiwis here. 
1. Language, We see some neat links posted to German sites and there are probably others in Frogland etc. but we primarily attract persons whose first language is English or a reasonable facsimile. 

2. Affluence, Trees get cut in every nation on earth but in many cultures the work is performed by menial labor with little concern over tree biology. English speaking cultures have propelled tree care into the professional realm more than most others. Alot of the tree folks outside of Englishspeaking countries A,. Don't have internet access and B. Don't want to talk about their work that much.


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## ROLLACOSTA (Jul 3, 2004)

funny thing is when i have worked for peoples of a differant colour and culture to me they seem very easy to teach ..ie they come around to my way of thinking regarding tree work more than a good many anglo-saxons


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## treeman82 (Jul 3, 2004)

I'm a Jewish climbing arborist. Don't find many of those around these parts.


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## ROLLACOSTA (Jul 3, 2004)

shalom brother man i bet your pack lunch is way better than mine!! i got jewish auntie food is great at her place..kerfilterer fish, chicken soup,matzo balls..salt beef .sausage kosher style,chopped liver with extra onions...mmmmmmmmmmmm..auntie your favorite nephew is comin too see you


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## Jumper (Jul 3, 2004)

Seem to be a fair number of first nation(politically correctway ofsaying Indian) people in the biz in Ontario, or at least my perception


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## murphy4trees (Jul 3, 2004)

*waed and co*

Here's a company pic of Big Jon and Roachy's company at the pen-del east TCC this year... great day,. This is a multi ethnic company that kicks out some serious tree work... Big Jon and Roachy are standing in the far right... the other white guys own the co.. And the little guy with the chainsaw in front of him smoked the belayed speed climb and he, jon and roach all made the top 5..


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## murphy4trees (Jul 3, 2004)

And here's a pic of Pat... told me he's been lurking here... maybe we can smoke him out.... he came in 3rd in the aerial rescue that day.... He's still not perfect, but been hanging out with Big Jon long enough to be way better than most....

In answer to the original question... why are there so few minority climbers.... my take on it is that they have more sense than whites... I mean think about it... there are a lot of ways to make a living out there... how much sense does it really make to swing around 50-100' up in a tree with a chainsaw for a living....


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## murphy4trees (Jul 3, 2004)

Here's pat's pic..


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## Stumper (Jul 3, 2004)

Er... Daniel, Did you mean to say that Pat is just as dumb as the rest of us? --Pat if your lurking out there come join the party!


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## BigJohn (Jul 3, 2004)

Is that Pat on his knees in front of me with a smile on his face? I'll reframe as I always do from the racial comments slurs. I think alot may have to do with these skills being passed down from gerations and such. I still think black guys are a bit more scared then they will admit and say they are just slow. It's OK to scared its how you deal with that fear. Either you stay up there all day and be scared and say your slow or just get it done and get the hell down on the ground where it is safe. Being white doesn't make anyone a better climber nor does being white affect how you are treated. I feel like an N word myself quite often.


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## OutOnaLimb (Jul 3, 2004)

Some of the best climbers/tree men I have ever met were from Guatamala. I worked on an Asplundh crew with some of these guys and they are "spot on" I grew up listening about tales of a black guy down in Georgia who called him self "Mule" I finally got to meet the guy and he is 5ft 10in of pure spring steel and raw hide. All he does is removals, but he climbs with a Stihl 44 Mag with an 16 inch bar, and trust me you do not want to shake his hand. He grew up loading loading 5ft pulp logs by hand. If he wanted, he could be a Pro wrestler. I have MUCHO RESPECT for this guy. Granted, you dont see many blacks climbing, but its like when I was in the army, You dont see many black Rangers, but the ones you do meet are some Bad A$$ Muldoons. 

Its all good, I have much respect for anyone who climbs trees.They can be black, white, oriental, or hispanic. If you can keep up with me, your doin' good. 

Kenn:Monkey:


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## murphy4trees (Jul 3, 2004)

*what are you talking about... Scared???*

Big Jon..
What are you talking about scared for??? Everybody's scared compared to you... You climb trees better than you walk...


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## roachy (Jul 3, 2004)

BIG JOHN ,are we talking about Big John ,better than he walks hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.Or do you mean better than he talks .Ethnics hell BJ is from Potts town ha ha.
Bj hit on it though alot is handed down from one generation to the next and lets face it its hard work and nobodys hanging with Donald Trump Whats the alure ?


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## MasterBlaster (Jul 3, 2004)

*Re: what are you talking about... Scared???*



> _Originally posted by murphy4trees _
> *Big Jon..
> What are you talking about scared for??? Everybody's scared compared to you... *




Say _WHAT?_


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## a_lopa (Jul 3, 2004)

i worked with a cook islander,short but bull like frame huge hands,he is a very funny happy guy,he was pissed at the bosses and asked them to remove the "black guy'' on the workmen ahead sign(our sign consists of blacked out guy shovelling)or he would take it further with descrimination.........that had them thinking!another time his holiday pay wasnt in on the correct day,he asked the manager why and he given no good reason,he said to manager''im fine with it but my wife (who is cook islander 120kg) is pissed off and coming in to see you.his pay was in that day.


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## rumination (Jul 4, 2004)

Ovah heah in Hawaii we get plenny Samoans, Tongans, Filipinos, and odah Pacific islanders dat stay climbing da trees. Eh, wot you lookin at?


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## highpoint-utd (Jul 4, 2004)

i have worked with two coulored lads in the last few years one was a climber for a local council and the other was a tree co owner in east manchester,ive worked with a palestinian and a couple of kurds while doing some landscraping work . the palestinian guy was an exccellent worker .


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## Guy Meilleur (Jul 4, 2004)

I was at U of North Carolina campus last month and ran into a black dude I used to work with there. He's over 70 but can still scamper up the trees.

Most tree guys I know did not come from a family business, but jsut followed their own paths to it.. The ones who did are lucky (?) imo, but a small minority.

Aussie, good stories! If I was on a black crew I would not want to see a picture of a white guy slaving on the road sign. And I do not want a 120 kg anyone coming in to see me!

Our industry's lack of diversity really shows at conferences. A whole lot of white dudes, few others. It's hard to feel comfortable if you look different, so maybe a special effort should be made to bring in anyone who wants to attend.


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## John Ellison (Jul 4, 2004)

Kind of off topic but,
In Alaska I heard, from several different people, of an excellent black hooktender (logger) on Afognak Is. Also I worked with/ knew two different women on rigging crews. One was a rigging slinger and the other set chokers on a crew I was on for awhile. Lots of lift, so it was'nt real physical. The young woman that I was around did great. This was at a logging camp and some of the guys had'nt been to town for weeks, so it was real distracting looking for a choker hole on a tight log. Un believably everybody kept the crude comments to a min. and things went pretty well.
About a year or two ago I read an article in a logging mag about a log co. owner who was in a restuarant for breakfast and found out that his skidder operator quit. He had a lot of trouble in the past with drunks and whatnot. The waitress (a single parent) said I can do that so he hired her. It worked out so well ( no more missed work) that he has since hired another and they are always there on time.
John


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## BigJohn (Jul 4, 2004)

Yeah everyone in my hood is black. I have heard I look out of place and lost on the ground. I am more comfortable upstairs than down. What about those Guatmalians? Roach how about the one we had Amatto or what ever that one I called tomorrow? That guy was awfull.


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## Dadatwins (Jul 4, 2004)

Worked with a couple of good minority climbers in New York, one guy was from the West Indies and used to climb coconut trees as a kid. Never used a rope until he came to U.S. Hardest part about working with him was communication. He spoke english but when he got a excited he would drift back to native tongue and we would stare up and scratch our heads wondering what the h**l he was talking about.


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## MasterBlaster (Jul 4, 2004)

Climbers? Getting excited? NO way, we're too cool and calm for any of that, eh?


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## M.D. Vaden (Jul 4, 2004)

In Portland, Oregon, I only know of two.

One has been in it for a while, is "okay" and rates himself very good - no certification, no formal education, hardly any effort into the right reading material. Professional appearance of company overall is a 5 on a scale of 1 to 10. Licensed.

There is a hispanic. Also licensed. No apparent education or credentials. Professional appearance of company about a 7 for how advertising and equipment looks.

At least they are licensed.


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## Tom Dunlap (Jul 8, 2004)

In the morning the crew room is filled with a real mix of languages.

We have English-speakers from around the US, a Bosnian, a Jamaiican, Hispanics from various Central American countries, and Cambodians. I would LOVE to be around on picnic day. All I would add would be my famous Minnesota fruit salad.

There are a number of international users on TB. OZ, NZ, Sweden, Norway, all of Great Britain, Germany, Switerland, Russia. There are probably others too. 

Tom


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## Curtis James (Jul 9, 2004)

When I was doing line clearence there was some one representing all makes and models of mankind!


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## Nathan Wreyford (Jul 12, 2004)

I'll stick with nationalities. That is all I choose to recognize. I list their citizenship, not their heritage (like Americans love to do).

I have worked with good climbers from Guatemala, Honduras, Turkey, Greece, Serbia/Montenegro, Germany, England, Mexico, USA, and the country of Georgia.

Hard to say who was the best. The fastest isn't the best and the best removal guy isn't the fastest....

You can rate climbers in many ways. Climb better than they can walk?? Jeez, I am sure hundreds could be defined that way.

Best ground man. In order - Mexico, USA, Ireland, Honduras.

In Texas, there are more hispanic climbers than non hispanic climbers.


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## coydog (Jul 13, 2004)

> _Originally posted by M.D. Vaden _
> *In Portland, Oregon, I only know of two.
> *


 I can assure you, there's more than two.


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## Reed (Jul 14, 2004)

How many transplant patients are climbers?

That's what I wanted to find out.


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## M.D. Vaden (Jul 15, 2004)

Corydog - do you mean on the "eastside"?

My post is the "westside story" mainly.


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## MasterBlaster (Jul 21, 2004)

One of the tree co I climb for is owned by a black guy. He doesn't really like to climb all that much, but he's ok, a little slow. It's funny sometimes, the stereotypes. I'll be the only white guy on his crew, and people ask me if I'm the boss. Actually I am, but I tell them, "No, it's that guy over there."


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jul 24, 2004)

I still delete things now and then.


The WAA has several black fellows who win events regularly in out TCC. Some make it to the MC most years, though this year was an exception.

Are Irish catholics still a reppressed minority? I think one of those types one the MC this year.


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## murphy4trees (Jul 29, 2004)

*Black is beautiful*

Here's one of Big Jon's disciples... Jon had to split for a family affair... And PE took up the task beautifully.

He's wearing a tree Austria saddle, aluminum bashlins with velcro, a Pacific R-5, and is holding a special friction saver to tie off to the crane. Put 4K of trees on the ground in 3.5 hours..
And we had to set the crane 5 times...


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## Stumper (Jul 29, 2004)

Have you talked Pat into joining Asite yet?


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## murphy4trees (Jul 29, 2004)

He's in.... 2 posts so far...


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## Nathan Wreyford (Jul 29, 2004)

Nothing like pointing out someone as a "token african american" to make them want to post.

How-a-bout Pat from Pa or where the heck ever he is from.



> Are Irish catholics still a reppressed minority?



According to my Irish coworkers, "we survived a famine and 2 world wars, we'll survive this too"


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## Stumper (Jul 29, 2004)

Er...I wasn't thinking of Pat as a "token" anything. I read in other posts that he is a skilled climber-rapidly advancing in skill. I don't care about anyone's ethnicity. I want to know what kind of person they are. :angel:


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## MasterBlaster (Jul 29, 2004)

I'm trying to get the black owner of one tree co I sub to to join AS. He's in a religious cult (7th day adventists), and I think he thinks the internet is the devil. But he has a computer and I have showed him this site before. He said if he ever did join, he would call himself BlackShadow.

Ha! I can't wait for him to post!


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## Nathan Wreyford (Jul 29, 2004)

Hey, no problemo!!°

We are all arborists here!!!

I like to think we share the same color.......tree!!!


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## MasterBlaster (Jul 29, 2004)

Actually, I can't wait for him to post so I can rag on his crazy ways of doing things. He is quite nutty, but in a religous way. He's that guy who was gonna "pray on it" concerning a chancy rigging episode. He won't drink cold water, or eat nothing but 'live' food, and works til dark every day. He's kinda wack...


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## jkrueger (Jul 29, 2004)

> _Originally posted by MasterBlaster _
> *Actually, I can't wait for him to post so I can rag on his crazy ways of doing things. He is quite nutty, but in a religous way. He's that guy who was gonna "pray on it" concerning a chancy rigging episode. He won't drink cold water, or eat nothing but 'live' food, and works til dark every day. He's kinda wack... *



Hey I do that and I'm not religous. Oh well, guess I'm just spiritual. 

Jack


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## John Stewart (Jul 29, 2004)

> _Originally posted by MasterBlaster _
> *Actually, I can't wait for him to post so I can rag on his crazy ways of doing things. He is quite nutty, but in a religous way. He's that guy who was gonna "pray on it" concerning a chancy rigging episode. He won't drink cold water, or eat nothing but 'live' food, and works til dark every day. He's kinda wack... *



Live like what?


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## MasterBlaster (Jul 29, 2004)

Basically, raw veggies, nuts, fruits. Hardly any meat whatsoever. And only water to drink. He might eat fast food once or twice a decade.

I imagine he's quite healthy. But I couldn't do it.


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## John Stewart (Jul 29, 2004)

Ah he is in detox mode
Very healthy!
Tried it once for two weeks lost 10lbs and sh....t thru the eye of a needle
FUN!!!!


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## MasterBlaster (Jul 29, 2004)

I like my grub freshly killed...

Or, I'll order pizza!


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## John Stewart (Jul 29, 2004)

Ya Rocky like I said Detox Mode
It really works and you do feel better!
You only have so many enzines in your body which help you digest
If you eat cooked food you have to use your bodies enzines to digest
Raw food has it's own enzines
Because you don't reproduce enzines once the tank is empty 
You die!
This is the theory of death by natural causes
So if you subscribe to this eat raw and live longer!
Later 
John

P.S
If you must eat meat you should take enzines in a pill form


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## SilverBlue (Jul 29, 2004)

Here's a good site, also read up on why grains are bad for us.
Mercola 

There is also info in the archives explaining the function and symbiotic relationship of microbes in our guts.


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## a_lopa (Jul 30, 2004)

i like to steam everything i can,i dont see the point in peeling vegies.chicken,fish steamed is grosse


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## jimmyq (Jul 30, 2004)

Anyone ever tried using one of those juicing machines? I was on a kick last year for a couple months, lotsa veggie and fruit juices.. felt ok, not sure if it was better or not. I gradually stopped, just got tired of the chopping and prepping the little chunks and then having to clean the machine after.. lazy I suppose. These days I chug the odd can of V-8, gotta have about 4 or 5 dashes of tabasco to make it fun. I have been meaning to get one of those big mouth juicers, the ones that take an apple whole, figured I might get back into the swing...


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## Gypo Logger (Jul 30, 2004)

I can see the benifits of being a raw fooder, vegan or fruitarian.
Although hard to practice due to deeply ingrained habits, we don't see animals in the wild carrying around pots and pans and microwave ovens.
Hygienists as they call themselves, believe that disease is the result of excess eating of the wrong foods and it's inability to be assimilated and eliminated. So they believe that a 90% raw diet and fasting will conquer all diseases except those in their final stages.
The oddest thing I have heard lately is that if the setting and rising sun is gazed at every day for increasing lengths of time up to 1minute, all disease will disappear and the human body can live indefinately on no food for ever. This they call sungazing or breatharianism.
John


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## MasterBlaster (Jul 30, 2004)

Yea, that _is_ a little odd...


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## JeffE (Jul 30, 2004)

> _Originally posted by John Stewart _
> *
> If you eat cooked food you have to use your bodies enzines to digest
> Raw food has it's own enzines
> ...



Okay, as long as this thread is well and truly derailled, I'll bite.

First of all, enzymes by definition are not consumed in a reaction, they just facilitate the reaction. So, digestive enzymes can be used and re-used ad infinitum, and you can produce more. Your tank doesn't go "emtpy." In my case, I'm lactose-intolerant, so I can't produce the lactase enzyme, but most people can produce plenty of it. And pretty much anything bigger than glucose requires digestive enzymes to digest.

Also, I'm surprised no one bit on MB's reference to the 7th Day Adventists as a "cult." I saw people here give a guy a hard time for misrepresenting the chronology of Genesis. It's a fine, fine line. It's not really offensive to me (I'm an unapologetic agnostic), but I think any 7th Day people reading would be offended - that's a pretty well-established national religious institution.

Not trying to pick on MB there - just thought it was funny that no one protested, after people jumped on the guy who joked that God created Adam before trees (or something).

Oy, I hope I don't start a silly fight with this :angel:


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Jul 30, 2004)

SB, funny link. This article got me laughing: http://www.mercola.com/2000/jul/30/doctors_death.htm


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## MasterBlaster (Jul 30, 2004)

Hey Jeff, calling them a cult was my idea. They are a pretty weird religion, just google em and check it out for yourself. And I can almost guarantee there aren't any 7th DA's here, cause like I said, they think the internet is a demon beast.
Funny, 10 years ago I worked for a treeguy that was a Jehovah's witness. Those guys are queer ducks, indeed.

Ah, religion. The downfall of mankind.


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## Trtd61 (Jul 30, 2004)

To each his own eh' Long as they dont try to force it down my throat, i dont have a problem with any of em


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## JeffE (Jul 30, 2004)

> _Originally posted by MasterBlaster _
> *They are a pretty weird religion, just google em and check it out for yourself.
> *


Yup, no argument there. But ultimately no weirder than most of the "accepted" religions, IMVHO. Early in the first millenium AD, Christians were considered cultists. 

Again, I didn't really mind what you said, just felt compelled, for some stupid reason, to point out the double standard.



> *Ah, religion. The downfall of mankind. *


Let's hope not, but it's looking that way.


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## murphy4trees (Jul 30, 2004)

Hi MM,
What's funny about that?
When I took a college course, economics of health care, back in '84, the number of deaths/year caused by the medical industry was 150,000... That's nearly 3x the total for all Americans in Vietnam, every year... Yet nobody is marching in the streets... How about another tidbit of info I learned in college.... over half the people in hospitals are there as a result of some treatment they received.... Years ago my father almost died as a result of staff infection follwing arthroscopic knee surgery and my fater in law just spent a week in the hospital after a colonoscopy resulted in infection.... 
Think about this... when a drug reaction or medical procedure ends someone up in the hospital, do they refuse to pay the bill?
Not unless there is a malpractice suit....
Now that would be like an arborist damaging the shrubs and then charging for shrub removal and replacement..
So given the state of health in america, sounds like the 7th dayers are onto something....
I do fresh carrot,ginger, lemon juice 3-4x week and finally got over lyme disease on wheatgrass and fresh veggie juice. Mostly drink just water, juice and herbal tea... avoid iced beverages... no pork and lately no processed foods as I have an accute sensitivity to MSG.... The only time I have taken a prescription or over the counter drug as an adult is when I had lyme....

OK enough ranting


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## jkrueger (Jul 30, 2004)

> _Originally posted by RockyJSquirrel _
> *John-
> I believe the 'live food' thing refers to not eating processed foods. Fresh fruits and veggies are scientifically proven to provide much more nourishment than processed foods injected with vitamins. Some believe that 'killing' foods by cooking and processing them destroys nutritional values and the food actually becomes toxic, destroying our bodies rather than nourishing them.
> 
> There are some good books on this. I can't think of any titles but I've known people who take this quite seriously and they certainly seem healthy. *



I do. I live with a NA, natrapathic doctor. And much about topic and how to make fast corrections while listening to your own body.

I'll direct you to her if there are any question; 
Henriette Alban , ND
[email protected]

OK,
Jack


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## jkrueger (Jul 30, 2004)

Regarding this topic;

There are certain nationalities that are culturally predetermined to not make a contribution to this world, there job other than spending the time and doing what was 'said', or the community.

There are changes in what I've observed over the years. There are beginning to be those who know they must honor who they are and out of that comes a great contribution. It wasn't there before.

Notice, I've not said which nationality?

Jack, (corrected spelling)


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## Gypo Logger (Jul 31, 2004)

Hi Daniel, I hear what your saying about doctors and horsepistols . I think it is now called "The Modern Day Temple of Doom". However, in the defense of the medical profession, they do exellent work in diagnosis and repairative surgery, but their downfall lies in that they like to treat effects rather than causes. There is more $ in treating effects than there is in treating causes.
P.S., isn't the word cult a derivative of the word culture?
John


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## MasterBlaster (Aug 9, 2004)

Here's the only black tree biz owner in this area.. He's bad at lowballing, I'm trying to get him out of the hole he's digging for himself into. He's has reputation within his customers as being cheap, cheap, cheap. Because of that, they always expect his everyday low prices.

I don't care. I charge him top dollar.:angel:


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## MasterBlaster (Aug 10, 2004)

He duz have a nice chipper, though.


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## TheTreeSpyder (Aug 10, 2004)

*Arborists are a Minority.*



> *There are certain nationalities that are culturally predetermined to not make a contribution to this world.....*



i'm sorry i don't think that is in the spirit of this sight, and walking right up to one ethnic slur or the other still counts as a hit and is not a joke, or guessing game. Some people don't respect any of our sweat and would blanketly comment....

Peace.


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## murphy4trees (Aug 11, 2004)

This country was largely built on the sweat and blood of the African people.... I find it hard dealing with racism and racists as they see life through a filter... Can't say much to change their minds... had to listen to some of that last nigh as a matter of fact...


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## lawmart (Aug 12, 2004)

well guys, iam black from the trinadad lived in canada since 1970, 
went to lakehead university (Thats in thunderbay, ontario) took forestry, worked for Manitoba Natural resource (The paw). live down in Hamilton ontario now . Have my own tree company I have 3 white guys working for me now.
When i got out of school i worked for the city of Toronto (1991) at that time there were 7 minorty climber 3 natives, 2 blacks and 2 chinies one of them woman at that Wenda lee, isa World champ now, there are dozens of climbers af diffrent races around now , natives ,blacks, chinies, etc.... I now of two black owners , my self and a woman in Mississauga ,My old boss did sales for her.
Minorties have to be exposed to this type of work since it does not exsist (at this level) in there country. time my friends time .

like said in other post every climber has his good and bad, skill and not so skilled, good at pruning some at removals , some , some can spell ,i am not one of those .

we gust have to keep our eyes and mind open to possibilities. lawmart 

play safe


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## roachy (Oct 14, 2004)

My Crew


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## BigJohn (Oct 14, 2004)

Oh yeah my crew


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## MasterBlaster (Oct 14, 2004)

As long as we're on the subject...


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## BigJohn (Oct 14, 2004)

Come on now at we were totally serious


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## pe5572 (Oct 17, 2004)

*minority climbers*

first thing i'm not a token any thing. second it take a special type of person to do what we do.not everyone likes to do it i know a few black climber from line clearance. and they do it only for the money. i like what i do money to me is just paper. it is nice to have but that's not why i do it . it is the feeling i get being up stairs. better then being high on any drug. I to am a very spritacul person.


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## pe5572 (Oct 17, 2004)

also i'm not scared bj i just think about what i'm doing before i do so i don't look like a a hole if something goes wrong. so i elimaite that from the task at hand.now like i told you i don't real care any more and just do it . if something happens sh%t happen.trying not to have any thing happen but relay on my skills more then any thing else.to try and speed up.


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## BigJohn (Oct 17, 2004)

yo Pat don't worrying about looking like a hole. If your gonna do something wrong you know I'll tell ya. If you don't attempt to make a mistake I can't correct it and tell why and explain why you may not want to do that. That is a big problem worrying about what other people think. You know I find myself doing the same thing when Jim is around and some days I am a fumbling idiot when he shows up. Confidence is KEY.


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## techdave (Oct 18, 2004)

*Minorities-thanks to rangers*

Hi Kenn, thanks for your service! Most of the Rangers i have meant are good guys, insane focus and crazy tough physically and MENTALLY. 

As for minorities, many of the Asplundh and Daveys around here are Mexicano. The crews sent to clear HWY 79 were Guatemalans brought in from Texas. Mexicanos and Chicanos in SoCal have been more taditionally into landscaping an Masonry. I predict more and more will become tree guys as they learn trade from Asplundh. Believe it or not, we (Mexican people) have strong tradition in small business.


Murph, are the Latino guys in your group photos from Mexico? Are they Chicano or more recent immigrants? I am always suprized at where Mexican people live in the good old USA. I even found Mexicanos with a good restaurant in Fairbanks AK!!!!


To the gent from Germany, I think most Northern Europeans are pretty cool about race, although I have met some Germans who were a little funny about Brown and Black skinned Americans.

As for the original question, I think it is a matter of exposure to the industry. In the Metro San Diego area there are pretty able Mxicano/Chicnao climbers who just lack the formal trianing in arboriculture and climbing technique, They tend to bid cheap, and work only in the metro area. Do a lot of either good or HACK work on Eucs by canyons. If PB tree is from our PB he can probably elaboraate.


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