# What about Redmax?



## livemusic (Jan 14, 2016)

I have done a google search and didn't find background info about this company. What's the opinion on Redmax? What is it, is this Husqvarna in another skin? Jonsored is same as Husky, right?

I have seen Redmax mentioned in threads when it was like a derogatory joke and then mentioned in other threads by revered posters and it seemed as if they loved a particular model. So, what's the truth? If it's good, is there any model that is generally revered?

Also, what is J-red? I see that mentioned; does that mean Jonsored brand?


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## Conquistador3 (Jan 14, 2016)

Redmax = Zenoah. 
And as you know Zenoah is owned by Husqvarna.
By comparing the two products it appears Redmax products are positioned lower than Zenoah equivalents. I have no experience on chainsaws, but on hedge trimmers Zenoah-branded products use far better plastics and cutting groups than their Redmax brethren. Husqvarna is phasing out both brands here (Redmax is long gone, Zenoah still has a few dealerships) but generally speaking Zenoah has traditionally been professional grade equipment while Redmax is more homeowner oriented. 

I have no idea how present Redmax products are priced since they are not sold here anymore, but I would pick any Zenoah product in a heartbeat, if price were no issue.


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## ANewSawyer (Jan 14, 2016)

Lol, maybe they are homeowner in Europe but here, in the USA, Redmax is almost pro stuff. And for the most part, totally different products than what Husqvarna offers. Redmax blowers have almost displaced Stihl, especially if we count Husky's versions. The only places I see Redmax trimmers is on pro trailers. Livemusic, if you look real carefully, you will see some red colored husky homeowner stuff at the bottom of Redmax's trimmer and blower line. Excepting that I would not hesitate to buy a Redmax. I kinda wish I had bought one of there trimmers but I didn't know about the adjustable carbs. Redmax doesn't seem to offer saws in the US currently.

Yes, as far as I know, J-red=Jonsered. Jonsered is closer to a red Husqvarna but they might offer a couple of unique models.


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## cus_deluxe (Jan 14, 2016)

Ive heard a lot of guys on here rave on the built quality of some of the redmax saws. Ive had or seen one so i dont know. But i agree with the above, redmax blowers and trimmers are right at the top of the line in most cases here.


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## blsnelling (Jan 14, 2016)

Redmax makes a good saw at a nice price point. The Zenoah engines are fantastic. However, the rest of the saw is rather "plasticy". That's not to imply they're junk, as they are not. I believe them to be a good saw for the money, but I would not consider them the equal of other brand pro saws.


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## HarleyT (Jan 14, 2016)

Their family tree to where they are now goes back to Green Machine/Zenoah, through being absorbed by Homelite, to where they are these days. Their trimmer/blower line is very popular with the commercial use crowd,
their saws not so much....


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## HarleyT (Jan 14, 2016)

Husqvarna owns almost everyone these days, but I wouldn't use that to make any judgments on quality......


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## Chris-PA (Jan 14, 2016)

RedMax was the US brand for Zenoah made and designed saws. They have no connection to Homelite and never did (Green Machine were re-badged saws from a variety of manufacturers, including Homelite). As Brad said they have wonderful engines, and they developed strato engines first, which is probably why Husqvarna bought them. 

Their saws are very light, but I find very strong, which includes using both alloy castings and plastic parts where it makes sense. I don't mind plastic as a saw material when it's used appropriately, but for those who don't like it and are used to a heavier saw the RedMaxs may feel cheap. I think it's mostly a perception issue, as they are sturdy and from an engineering point of view I find the designs make a lot of sense. For example, on the small G3800/GZ4000 saws there is a small partial split case mag chassis that ties the bar studs and engine together, but then there is plastic rear cradle and a plastic handle/tank assembly. 

The Chinese are now producing large quantities of several older Zenoah designs, but not of the strato GZ400/4000/4500.

I have a couple of Zenoah GZ400/4000 and Chinese clones of the G3800 and G621. I use and like them a lot.


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## kantuckid (Jan 14, 2016)

I bought a new Redmax G3100T for use as a ladder saw and the price point was very attractive. Mine cost less new than a well used one on fleabay now. I had a wrrty bent bar replaced and it's never failed me yet. My saw says made in Italy on it FWIW. Given it's never had a problem all I've done is blow it off some , body and filter and it always starts. Cold it's a bit reluctant to gain smooth idle but has primer bulb, choke lever and a manual engine start setup so typical that way. 
I fullt agree with the plasticky comment yet the weight earns it's place in my hands for small and up high jobs. As an e.g. of power, sharp it would easily cut through say a 8" oak limb and fairly quickly too-not that I'd choose it for that on the ground. My handle flexes more than ideal and I've had to "tuck" it back in place. Had it maybe 5-6 years or so-it was a "current saw" when I bought it.


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## nenicu (Jan 14, 2016)

I think Zenoah sold the right to make strato saw's to the chinese, because Alpina has in offer a chinese built strato saw[GZ 4000 copy]. Another strato sold under Castor 442 S. 2.4 hp and the ipl shows the same strato setup like my Ryobi.


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## Conquistador3 (Jan 14, 2016)

nenicu said:


> I think Zenoah sold the right to make strato saw's to the chinese, because Alpina has in offer a chinese built strato saw[GZ 4000 copy]. Another strato sold under Castelgarden name.



GGP (the Swedish group owning the Alpina, Castelgarden, Mountfield etc brands) has an official license from Husqvarna Zenoah to use Stratocharger technology in their engines.


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## nenicu (Jan 14, 2016)

Thanks.


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## Chainsaw Jim (Jan 14, 2016)

They actually have a ringer in the bunch. I think it's the 4500 or something like that. I can't remember if Snelling or my dealer told me that, but they're selling for a pretty high dollar on eBay.


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## nenicu (Jan 14, 2016)

The GZ 4500 has a cylinder that looks shady. The 40 cc cylinder is stamped Zenoah Japan, but the 44 cc cylinder has C5A written.I have 1 40 cc and 2 44 cc[1 broken]. Is a big diference in the plating quality.


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## blsnelling (Jan 14, 2016)

Chainsaw Jim said:


> They actually have a ringer in the bunch. I think it's the 4500 or something like that. I can't remember if Snelling or my dealer told me that, but they're selling for a pretty high dollar on eBay.


When I did my initial sub 9.5 lbs saw search, the Redmax 3800 was the fastest. Best built went to the Shindaiwa 377. After that I ported the Ryobi copy of the Redmax GZ400. It was stronger yet. The GZ400 is the cheaper version of the GZ4000, but basically the same saw. The GZ4500 is basically the same saw with slightly more displacement. I've never gotten a chance to mess with one of these, but they might have the capacity to be the strongest <=9.5 lbs saw available after porting.


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## Chris-PA (Jan 14, 2016)

Part of the problem with the GZ4500 is that there are vastly more GZ400/4000 saws out there, and the GZ4500s cost considerably more. They have 0.325' chain, which I don't think is an advantage, and that requires a different drive sprocket and oil pump worm. The oil pump worms are probably the weakest part of these saws, and are only available with the pump ($). So all of that for 4cc (10%) just doesn't seem worth it.

I got both my GZ4000 and Ryobi/GZ400 cheap with bad oilers, and fixed them with and Earthquake pump/worm. Work just fine.

I'd like to find a GZ4500 with a bad oiler!


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## 166 (Jan 14, 2016)

Wouldn't mind having one of these.


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## Chris-PA (Jan 14, 2016)

166 said:


> Wouldn't mind having one of these.
> View attachment 478603


Wow!


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## nenicu (Jan 15, 2016)

I'v got my saw's with various defects from Germany.The 40 cc[2] with carb problems, Fixed, one went to a friend. The 44 cc[one Ryobi and one Homelite] with 325 chain had bad oiler gears and one of them a bad cylinder. Put a chinese 40 cc top end[ with strato and all that]. The remaining 44 cc cylinder has a shady plating on it. I think the 44 cc cylinders are chinese build, because my other 44 cc top it has bad plating as well.


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## nenicu (Jan 15, 2016)

One store network is selling chinese build saw's [gz 400 engines] with bloked strato. I found 2 of them cheap and got the cylinders off, and now i got some spare parts.They sell them as 45 cc but the two of them were 40 cc.


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## nenicu (Jan 15, 2016)

The cranks have bigger threads like the ones Chris-Pa showed in his Ryobi thread[ JennFeng clnes].


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## nenicu (Jan 15, 2016)

4500 Cylinder


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## nenicu (Jan 15, 2016)

Sorry for messing with your thread , for enyone interested i think the GZ 4000 is the saw to have, not the GZ 4500. The oiler problem[ 325 chain needs his special oiler gear], the bad plating[ I have 1 cylinder with peeled plating and the other one on the way ] and the cost diference are my argument. On other note, i have a G621 that i'm working right now and the work on the krank is exceptional, the cylinder plating no 1.


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## Chris-PA (Jan 15, 2016)

nenicu said:


> One store network is selling chinese build saw's [gz 400 engines] with bloked strato.


Jenn Feng made a lot of those. After looking at one I realized they are basically a G3200 chassis using a 35cc or 40cc strato engines - but the strato ports are blocked off. It's still a nice little quad closed transfer engine, but I couldn't stand knowing the strato system was just blocked! 



nenicu said:


> The cranks have bigger threads like the ones Chris-Pa showed in his Ryobi thread[ JennFeng clnes].


Yes i thought that was strange that the Jenn Feng Taiwan engines had different clutch, flywheel and bar stud threads. I figured the bar studs may have been to standardize with the other McCulloch brand saws they were making, but who knows? I was still able to drop a Zenoah engine from a Ryobi into a Jenn Feng McCulloch.

The Jenn Feng castings were as nice as the Zenoah ones - often a smoother surface finish. Better than the mainland China castings on the Earthquake for sure. Plating was good too.


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## kantuckid (Jan 15, 2016)

Speaking as one thats read lots of motorcycle related comments from people that directly involved themselves in manufacturing as performed in China the true essence is the quality control and that it be continuous. When BMW went to Asia for some manufacturing the folks that had the German engineer elves hangup started ranting about how the brand was down the toilet. I do remember reading once that company had like 30 some engineer's to each factory worker. Having three engineer sons and having also worked hand in hand with engineer's(I was the skilled trades/greasy guy) I found them to not all be a source of a "great shining light" I still tease my sons about being in the pocket protectors crowd.


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## Chris-PA (Jan 15, 2016)

kantuckid said:


> Speaking as one thats read lots of motorcycle related comments from people that directly involved themselves in manufacturing as performed in China the true essence is the quality control and that it be continuous. When BMW went to Asia for some manufacturing the folks that had the German engineer elves hangup started ranting about how the brand was down the toilet. I do remember reading once that company had like 30 some engineer's to each factory worker. Having three engineer sons and having also worked hand in hand with engineer's(I was the skilled trades/greasy guy) I found them to not all be a source of a "great shining light" I still tease my sons about being in the pocket protectors crowd.


They can make whatever level of quality you are willing to pay for. Given that the entire reason most companies go there is to save money, the reduction in quality usually seen is no surprise. OK, well it surprises MBAs, but then any sort of reality does that. 

The Chinese are graduating an incredible number of manufacturing engineers. Here - no so much. But we got bankers.


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## Conquistador3 (Jan 15, 2016)

kantuckid said:


> Speaking as one thats read lots of motorcycle related comments from people that directly involved themselves in manufacturing as performed in China the true essence is the quality control and that it be continuous. When BMW went to Asia for some manufacturing the folks that had the German engineer elves hangup started ranting about how the brand was down the toilet. I do remember reading once that company had like 30 some engineer's to each factory worker. Having three engineer sons and having also worked hand in hand with engineer's(I was the skilled trades/greasy guy) I found them to not all be a source of a "great shining light" I still tease my sons about being in the pocket protectors crowd.



Don't even get me started about BMW build quality. And I am saying this as an owner and a tinkerer. 

The big problem with manufacturing in China is not so much ensuring good quality. It is keeping up good, consistent quality. Most components made there are not directly manufactured by either a German, Japanese, Korean etc company but by local contractors. They often start with exactly the level of quality required then, slowly but steadily, quality fade kicks in, often in such a way it's impossible to spot until it's too late and warranty claims start piling up. Some foreign manufacturers close both eyes until they can as long as they can save money, hoping and praying customers won't turn against them. With modern QC methods, I suspect this practice is more widespread than many think. 
The most successful companies at ensuring steady quality in China are those who hired people who know how to deal with local contractors and keep them in line. 

Then, of course, there are those who moved production to China precisely to have a ready-made excuse ("Not our fault: local contractors cheated us, honest!") to lower quality. i won't name names, but I have a large and well known Japanese company in mind.


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## Chris-PA (Jan 15, 2016)

Conquistador3 said:


> They often start with exactly the level of quality required then, slowly but steadily, quality fade kicks in, often in such a way it's impossible to spot until it's too late and warranty claims start piling up.


Of course - they know why you are there. After all, you used to make the stuff back home, but you want to cut costs. So they give you a lowball price to get the business and then try to claw back margin by reducing their costs. 

It's not that different from western companies that will "buy the business" with a low initial price, and then start creeping up the price over time to get the margins back. 

It's just the typical belief in "something for nothing" that pervades modern western business management. When you outsource your manufacturing to China they see you as an easy mark, as well they should. They know why you are there and what you are looking for and how to game you because you've played your hand. You'll get to go back to upper management and show how you cuts costs, and take a step up the corporate ladder. But the reality is that "something for nothing" is dumb fairy tale, and if you cared about the product and the company's reputation you wouldn't be there in the first place.


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