# Cleaning up the forest



## mtngun (Jul 3, 2010)

Another doug fir blow down. Small, 'cuz I'm getting down to the bottom of the barrel at this location.






It seems like I always forget to bring something important. Today I forgot to bring the auxiliary oiler. Not a big deal on this small log. 

The cookie keeps the rail from sagging in the middle. 





Using the camera's timed shutter to get an action shot. This is kinda sorta how I like to sit on the log as I mill, except the camera didn't allow me much time to make myself comfortable.





Then mini-mill was used to make an 8x8. The mini-mill is easy to set up and usually produces a pretty square beam. Only problem was, I set it up with the top of the bar a little too close to the mill, and the chain nicked the mill. No spare chain, either.  

So I got to try out my new Save-Edge file. The Save-Edge worked awesome -- for about 45 seconds. After that, it was dull and would hardly cut. I was not impressed, considering the premium price.

Anyway, the chain was mangled pretty good. I filed it well enough to finish the 8x8, but the cutting was slow, and the CS62 was working hard, so I retired the mini-mill for rest of the day.

Then on to a standing dead doug. Only about 14" diameter, and knotty, but I can put the wood to good use.





Once the log has been whittled down enough that I can lift it off the ground, I set it on some logs, so it's a little more comfortable to work on. I hope BobL approves.


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## mtngun (Jul 3, 2010)

Total haul was 8 boards and two 8x8 posts, plus firewood and slabs. 





The thinned 3/8" nose sprocket continues to work well and spin freely.

Once again, the injecta-sharp lo-pro ran for an hour before it slowed enough to warrant changing. A total of 1.1 hours run time and 9 passes on the injecta-sharp.

Then I finished the day with regular lo-pro.

All together, 1.5 hours run time on the 066. 

Today the saw was tuned to 12,700 WOT with the 36" B&C. Typical RPM in the cut was 8500. 

As usual, it seemed to cut fastest around 8500 - 9500 RPM, but human nature wants to push the saw as fast as it will let you push it, so I often found myself lugging it down to 7000 RPM. At least this top end is not fussy about RPMs.

Mini speed tests, minus the forgotten auxiliary oiler:

injecta-sharp pass #2, 13" wide, *0.44 inch/sec*. Seems too slow, perhaps I wrote down the wrong number, but I have to go with what I got.

injecta-sharp pass #3, 15" wide, *0.36 inch/sec*.

injecta-sharp pass #8, 13" wide, *0.46 inch/sec.* By this time the chain was getting dull, yet the cut speed was faster than pass #2, which is why pass #2 doesn't seem right.

lo-pro pass #1, 13" wide, *0.62 inch/sec.*


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## Metals406 (Jul 3, 2010)

I always enjoy your milling in the woods posts! Looks like a good haul back home.


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## BobL (Jul 4, 2010)

Good work mtngun - thanks for posting.


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## Teddy.Scout (Jul 4, 2010)

nice pics!
Pics are awesome, and have helped me out!


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## ChainsawmanXX (Jul 4, 2010)

mtngun said:


> Total haul was 8 boards and two 8x8 posts, plus firewood and slabs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Im curious, how do you check the RPM's and what not on your saw? iv tried marking one end of the chain with a yellow marker and counting how many times it goes around.. alittle to FAST! haha


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## BobL (Jul 4, 2010)

ChainsawmanXX said:


> Im curious, how do you check the RPM's and what not on your saw? iv tried marking one end of the chain with a yellow marker and counting how many times it goes around.. alittle to FAST! haha



never heard of a tachometer?
A few of us do it like this.


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## gemniii (Jul 4, 2010)

ChainsawmanXX said:


> Im curious, how do you check the RPM's and what not on your saw? iv tried marking one end of the chain with a yellow marker and counting how many times it goes around.. alittle to FAST! haha





> A chain slides across the surface of the sawbar rail at around 5000 feet per minute.


[URL="here]http://www.sawmillchainsaws.com/sawfacts.htm[/URL]

So if your milling with a 5' chain (about a 20" bar?? SWAG) you'd have to count at about 1,000 yellow marks a minute. I can't count that fast!


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## computeruser (Jul 4, 2010)

Nice work. Kinda gives me the itch to get a milling setup again!


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## betterbuilt (Jul 4, 2010)

Nice work. 

I admire how you always end up with a load of wood. keep up the good work. 

I enjoy reading about your adventures. I'm hoping to get out tomorrow.


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## mtngun (Jul 4, 2010)

*Born in 1928*

Another doug fir blowdown creating a fire hazard. I guess I better clean it up. An ecologger's work is never done.





The CS62 bucks the tree.





Stump sits back up -- you gotta be careful when you are cutting a blowdown, make sure you won't be in harm's way if the stump decides to flip up.





28" at the butt. Normally, local dougs of this size are about 150 years old. I was surprised that this specimen was only 82 years old -- born around 1928. Note the growth rings suddenly get very large for a spell, but more recently the growth rings are tiny. The tree must have received more sunlight and/or more water back in the old days. 





Three logs were slabbed, all at once. That way, I only have to set up the Alaskan for slabbing one single time.


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## john taliaferro (Jul 4, 2010)

shure wish i had a mill we gotta do a 4' red oak in the morning . we cant haul 8 ' sections hole thinking about splitting it down the middle then when i get mill we can saw lumber. Dam noisey here youed think it was war with all the fire works . happy fourth.johnt


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## mtngun (Jul 5, 2010)

Bark 1 1/2" thick. Sometimes it peels off easily, but this wasn't one of those times. 





Fast forward to the end of the day. 18 boards, with a few slabs on top. Not a record number of boards, but probably the biggest volume of wood that I've ever milled in a single day.

Do you think my pickup is overloaded ?





Speed tests and other notes, in chronological order:

-- injecta-sharp pass #6, 19.5" wide,* 0.22 inch/sec.* Slooow. It had about 1 hour run time by then, and the chain was dull. 

-- I hand-filed the chain after that pass. Also knocked the sawdust off the air filter about that time, because the engine was starting to blubber in the cut. 

-- injecta-sharp pass #8, 20" wide,* 0.16 inch/sec.* Terrible. My hand-filing didn't help. I should have swapped the chain after one hour's run time, like I normally do. 

-- fresh WP lo-pro ripping chain installed after 1.9 hours.

-- lo-pro pass #3, 16" wide, *0.41 inch/sec*.

-- lo-pro pass #4, 18.5" wide, *0.31 inch/sec*.

-- engine was blubbering again, tached 12,400 WOT. I retuned to 12,500 WOT, doesn't sound like a big change, but no more blubber and it picked up 500 rpm in the cut.

-- lo-pro pass #5, 18.5" wide, *0.33 inch/sec.*

-- knocked the dust out of air filter (I didn't bring a spare filter).

-- lo-pro pass #6, 17.5" wide,* 0.36 inch/sec*.

-- fresh lo-pro chain installed after 1.3 hours.

-- lo-pro pass #1, 12.5" wide, *0.6 inch/sec*.

-- lo-pro pass #2, 15" wide, *0.48 inch/sec*.

-- lo-pro pass #3, 15.5" wide, *0.5 inch/sec*.

-- lo-pro pass #4, 15" wide, *0.6 inch/sec*.

-- one more pass to finish for day, 0.7 hours on chain, still cutting fine.

-- total 3.9 hours on the 066 (twice what I usually do).

-- 2 1/2 gallons of fuel, 1 3/4 gallons of bar oil.

Lessons learned, observations, etc. :

-- injecta-sharp and regular lo-pro and regular 3/8" all stay usefully sharp for about one hour run time in softwood. The hour meter has proven to be a reliable indicator for when to swap chains.

-- injecta-sharp does not seem to stay sharp any longer than regular lo-pro. 

-- regular lo-pro seems to stay sharp just as long as regular 3/8.

-- the thinned 3/8" nose sprocket continues to work satisfactorily.

-- the air filter needs to be cleaned after 2 hours, if not sooner. Normally, I only log 2 hours in a full day of milling, so the air filter can be ignored. But, I should keep a spare air filter in my field kit for days like today.

-- bog speed for this 066BB seems to be around 6000 RPM. This is a huge improvement compared to the older BB that fell off a cliff below 8400 RPM.

-- If I milled big logs on a regular basis, I'd want one of those cranks like BillSteuwe and SPM use. Pushing a CSM through a 28" log is tiring. 

-- Another "big wood" problem that arose -- if I placed the guide rails in the middle of the board, which seemed the intuitive thing to do, the CSM was not balanced on the guide rails. The powerhead wanted to droop and the nose wanted to rise. I was constantly fighting to hold the CSM flat against the guide rails, and it was tiring.

The solution was to place the guide rails on the powerhead side of the log, instead of on the center of the log. The CSM balanced better that way.


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## makindue (Jul 5, 2010)

I think the saw that you used was very sharp! :greenchainsaw: The trees are very thick but you manage to cut them down. But did you plant trees to replace the one you cut so that the future generation will have a clean forest?


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## mtngun (Jul 5, 2010)

makindue said:


> But did you plant trees to replace the one you cut so that the future generation will have a clean forest?


I have planted over a thousand tree seedllngs on my property. Hopefully, when I die, my property will be healthier and prettier than when I found it.

The site where I was milling today was "thinned" by loggers several years ago. They harvest about 3/4 of the trees, but leave the other 1/4, the straightest and healthiest trees, to drop cones that will repopulate the area. Rather than piling the slash, the slash is left spread out, and then burned in the fall. If the slash fire goes well, it is a low-level fire that gets rid of the fuel and stimulates the germination of douglas fir (slash fires don't always go well, though -- sometimes they burn too hot and do a lot of damage.) This particular thinned area seems to be recovering nicely.

However, after a forest is thinned, there is more wind whistling through, because there is no longer a thick forest to block the wind. Some of the remaining "seed" trees get blown down in winter storms. The blowdowns are a gift to woodcutters like myself.

Ponderosa pine and doug fir forests are often logged by "thinning" as I have described. 

White/grand fir forests are more likely to be clearcut and burned, since white fir is a "weed" tree and the slash fire helps to stimulate the growth of new douglas fir. 

In the old days, they would often replant, but lately the foresters seem to prefer leaving a few "seed" trees to repopulate naturally. I imagine it is cheaper to do it that way, plus it looks better having a few seed trees around, instead of a clearcut.


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## BobL (Jul 5, 2010)

Great description and great data logging mtngun!



mtngun said:


> Lessons learned, observations, etc. :
> -- injecta-sharp and regular lo-pro and regular 3/8" all stay usefully sharp for about one hour run time in softwood. The hour meter has proven to be a reliable indicator for when to swap chains.


If you are cutting more or less making the same width cuts in the same types of wood that will make sense. I find a reliable general indicator is total sq ft of wood cut, which for for me is about 60 sqft in softer Aussie hardwood and about 30 sqft of hard aussie hardwood but often the saw is telling me - "I need a touch up"!



> the air filter needs to be cleaned after 2 hours, if not sooner. Normally, I only log 2 hours in a full day of milling, so the air filter can be ignored. But, I should keep a spare air filter in my field kit for days like today.


Good idea - I keep at least one filter for each saw on hand. In terms of cleaning, it depends on the type of wood I'm cutting and where I am. Filter cleaning can vary from a quick knock on the side of the log, to a gentle blow out with a compressor (if I am at the yard) to a replacement. In some wood I do it every second tank of mix - in really green wood I can sometimes go all day without doing anything



> I milled big logs on a regular basis, I'd want one of those cranks like BillSteuwe and SPM use. Pushing a CSM through a 28" log is tiring.


I notice you are still sitting while milling, this is an indicator that your logs and/or arms are too low. When sitting, only the top half of an operators body weight can be used to lean on the mill and saw compared to when standing where their whole body weight can be employed. I know I sound like a broken record but a major ergonomic improvement to all standard CSMs is to place new handles (and a remote throttle) higher up on the mill. This allows the operator to stand upright close to the mill and provide forward pressure on the wrap handle with a knee or thigh. If necessary the arms can also be locked straight and the operator can step back and lean their whole body weight on the mill. All this is *much* easier than using arm and core muscles to push the mill. The only time I find I have to do this is towards then end of a hard cut when the chain is getting blunt and mostly I use my arms steer the mill or lock the tkrottle and that frees my arms completley so I can insert wedges etc. 
These photos show how close I stand and all I am doing here is providing forward pressure with my thigh - there is no pressure from my arms. 








This more upright stance makes it easier to use a CSM for much longer periods than would otherwise be possible for an unfit lazy person like myself. 



> Another "big wood" problem that arose -- if I placed the guide rails in the middle of the board, which seemed the intuitive thing to do, the CSM was not balanced on the guide rails. The powerhead wanted to droop and the nose wanted to rise. I was constantly fighting to hold the CSM flat against the guide rails, and it was tiring.
> 
> The solution was to place the guide rails on the powerhead side of the log, instead of on the center of the log. The CSM balanced better that way.


This is where adjustable width log rails are useful, I just wish I could find a way of adjusting the width more quickly that didn't cost and arm and a leg.


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## mtngun (Jul 5, 2010)

To be able to mill while standing upright would be great, but it's not going to happen in the woods.

For me to stand up straight, the log you were milling would have to be a foot higher.


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## 7oaks (Jul 5, 2010)

mtngun - great photo documentation along with detailed data logging. I really enjoy these posts.


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## forestryworks (Jul 5, 2010)

Very nice, thanks for sharing 

Does that doug-fir smell good when milling?


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## mtngun (Jul 5, 2010)

forestryworks said:


> Does that doug-fir smell good when milling?


It smells good to me.  You probably feel the same way.

But, Ponderosa smells much better. There's gobs of dead ponderosa here. Too bad it's not the greatest for building material.


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## BobL (Jul 5, 2010)

mtngun said:


> To be able to mill while standing upright would be great, but it's not going to happen in the woods.
> 
> For me to stand up straight, the log you were milling would have to be a foot higher.



Log doesn't have to be much or at all higher - the handle positions and heights on the mill are probably more significant, as shown on this picture.






It's mainly the left hand being up by 8 -10" and closer into the log by the same amount that makes the big difference. The right hand doesn't need to be much further up but if it can be lifted up it can also be moved out to the right a bit to improve leverage. An MC or aux throttle is not really needed, a cable tie over the trigger would for most purposes work as well - I have done this with my mates 3120.


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## Brmorgan (Jul 6, 2010)

What do you have for suspension in your truck? It's packing that load pretty well.

I don't know how the heck you have time to mill all that lumber AND do all the number crunching and keeping track of stuff. You must start earlier than me!


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## mtngun (Jul 6, 2010)

Brmorgan said:


> What do you have for suspension in your truck?


Judging by the way it rides, you wouldn't know that it has a suspension.


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## 7oaks (Jul 6, 2010)

froonylose said:


> I think that it was really a nice work you have done, but I think that cleaning the forest is not good as all we know that we should save the environment,



:spam: I think his real name is fruityloose!


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## mtngun (Jul 6, 2010)

Yep, the latest spam trick is to make a polite, complementary reply to a thread.


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## smokinj (Jul 6, 2010)

Looks Greate mntgun


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## mtngun (Jul 17, 2010)

*Murphy goes milling*

Mr. Murphy and I headed to the woods for another day of milling.

The 066, which had run fine when I tested it at home, decided not to run. It would start, run for a second or two, and then conk out, acting like it wasn't getting any fuel. 

Oh well, time to break out the mini-mill and make some 8x8's.

The Oly 980 ran OK for a couple of passes on the mini-mill, then its starter cord snapped. 

Oh well, the CS62 was pressed into mini-mill duty. It milled well enough with its new skip chain, if you don't mind the rough finish.





Then on the last pass of the last post, the CS62 conked out. It had been having serious vapor lock problems, so it may have just been vapor locked, or it may be something else. 

I finished the day with 4 posts and the usual complement of firewood. Definitely not my most productive day. But, I need the wood, so I'll keep plugging away.


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## BobL (Jul 17, 2010)

To quote an old john Denver sog, "Some days are diamond . . . . . . 


Great working view you got there mntgun.


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## mtngun (Jul 18, 2010)

*eff'n ethanol*

Starting to tear into the saws and figure out what caused yesterday's problems.

This is the gas dumped out of the CS62's tank. Gee, do you think this might cause a problem ? :censored: 





This is the 1st gallon from another jug of fuel. There's still another 1 1/2 gallon in that jug that I will inspect before using.





I'm guessing that engine vibration and the moving saw keep the fuel churned up while the saw is running. When you turn the saw off and set it down, the water settles to the bottom of the tank -- where the fuel pick up is.  Then when you go to start it, it's sucking water, not fuel.


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## Metals406 (Jul 18, 2010)

mtngun said:


> Starting to tear into the saws and figure out what caused yesterday's problems.
> 
> This is the gas dumped out of the CS62's tank. Gee, do you think this might cause a problem ? :censored:
> 
> ...



That's why I've started paying $2.96 a gallon for 89 octane fuel -- but it doesn't have ethanol. I've noticed my truck idles and runs better too.

Ethanol should be $0.89 a gallon IMO. . . That way, you're getting what you pay for.


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## mtngun (Jul 18, 2010)

Here's the 2nd gallon from that 2 1/2 gallon jug. 





Surprisingly, the last 1/2 gallon had very little contamination. Go figure.

Here's what was in the 066's fuel tank.





Meanwhile, the CS62 is running OK now that it has decent fuel. Haven't tried the 066 yet, but I bet good fuel cures its ills, too.

$2.96 for ethanol free high octane ? Geez, regular is $3.11 here, and all the pump gas has ethanol.


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## Metals406 (Jul 18, 2010)

mtngun said:


> Here's the 2nd gallon from that 2 1/2 gallon jug.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nope, not high octane, just 89. Where as, all the other local stations have 89 octane +-10% ethanol fuel for around $2.72 a gallon. So I'm paying over $.20 a gallon more for the same octane fuel, but without ethanol.

I have some ethanol fuel left for my saws (mixed up already). . . After it's gone -- I won't be buying any more.


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## Ted J (Jul 18, 2010)

Metals406 said:


> I always enjoy your milling in the woods posts! Looks like a good haul back home.



I like to see how much wood he crams in the bed of that ol' pick-up, it's a workhorse for sure, as he is also.


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## Philbert (Jul 18, 2010)

This is slightly off topic, but inspired by your photos (great photos by the way): When you are ripping boards, I assume that the trunk is pretty stiff for the top few boards. Does it ever start to sag for the last few? Do you have to support it to get uniform thickness on the bottom boards?

Thanks

Philbert


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## mtngun (Jul 18, 2010)

Philbert said:


> This is slightly off topic, but inspired by your photos (great photos by the way): When you are ripping boards, I assume that the trunk is pretty stiff for the top few boards. Does it ever start to sag for the last few? Do you have to support it to get uniform thickness on the bottom boards?


Well, I usually sit on the log as I mill, much to BobL's dismay (sorry Bob, but after spending all week standing up at my day job, it feels good to sit down for a few minutes).

For the last pass or two, the log is not strong enough to support my weight, so I have to -- gasp ! ! !  -- bend over, or heaven forbid, get down on my knees ! ! ! I don't post pictures of milling on my knees because BobL might have a heart attack. 

Normally I fasten the guide rail with a single screw at each end of the log, but sometimes for the last pass, I will add a 3rd screw in the middle of the log, to keep it from flexing. It's not so much that the log sags, as that sometimes the saw can create a resonant frequency in the log that causes it to hop around.


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## BIG JAKE (Jul 18, 2010)

I might look into the AV gas come winter time. Never liked alcohol for my applications. How old was your fuel?


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## BobL (Jul 19, 2010)

mtngun said:


> For the last pass or two, the log is not strong enough to support my weight, so I have to -- gasp ! ! !  -- bend over, or heaven forbid, get down on my knees ! ! ! I don't post pictures of milling on my knees because BobL might have a heart attack.



Post away - hearts doing fine. Did a 7 mile walk yesterday, and a 7.5 mile round trip hike with 1842 ft elevation gain today at Moraine Lake. For lazy old me thats a fair achievement. (but that little blister on my toe next to my right pinky hurts like blazes)

BTW - if the log is not strong enough to support your weight that means it should be possible to lift it up above the ground.

BTW if you think your gas is expensive the cheapest gas in Perth today is $4.00 a US gallon


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## Brmorgan (Jul 19, 2010)

That's some pretty ugly stuff you got jarred up there. The only time I've gotten any appreciable amount of water in my gas is after letting a saw sit out in the rain or lots of hot/cold night cycles.

Do you ever add fuel stabilizer to your mix?


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## mtngun (Jul 19, 2010)

BIG JAKE said:


> How old was your fuel?


The mix was fresh, but the gasoline was purchased last fall. 

I purchase fuel by the barrel for the woodhauler because it seldom leaves pavement and it's a 4 - 5 hour round trip to the nearest gas station. Plus, I sometimes get snowed in for months at a time. Stale or not, I'm dependent on that barrel of gas to keep the chainsaws and snowplow running during the winter.

Anyway, typically I buy a 55 gallon barrel of gas in the fall, enough to last all winter. 

Normally, the old gas in the barrel is used for the woodhauler while the chainsaws get fresher fuel from 5 gallon jugs.

But, I ran out of "fresh" fuel for the saws and had to dip into the barrel of stale gas. 

In hindsight, even the stale gas would have sufficed if I had taken care to let it separate, and then siphoned off the good stuff. 

No, I don't use stabilizer, nor would it have helped with this watery gas. 



BobL said:


> Did a 7 mile walk yesterday, and a 7.5 mile round trip hike with 1842 ft elevation gain today at Moraine Lake. For lazy old me thats a fair achievement. (but that little blister on my toe next to my right pinky hurts like blazes)
> 
> BTW - if the log is not strong enough to support your weight that means it should be possible to lift it up above the ground.


Glad to hear you are enjoying the mountains, Bob. 

Yes, I do lift the lightened log onto chunks of firewood, but that's still pretty low on the ground, and even at that low height the log will often tip over or roll off the firewood due to the uneven forest floor.


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## betterbuilt (Jul 19, 2010)

mtngun said:


> Anyway, typically I buy a 55 gallon barrel of gas in the fall, enough to last all winter.
> 
> Normally, the old gas in the barrel is used for the woodhauler while the chainsaws get fresher fuel from 5 gallon jugs.
> 
> But, I ran out of "fresh" fuel for the saws and had to dip into the barrel of stale gas.



Maybe that premixed stuff I see the dealers peddling with a shelf life would help. 

I wish I could get my hands on some aspen2T Its supposed to have a shelf life of two years and I hear it doesn't pollute like gas. The people I've talked to say their saws last longer on it also. I see its available in Canada but not the US.


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## huskyhank (Jul 19, 2010)

mtngun,

I'd look into buying aviation gas or check into a marina if there is one near you. Failing that get some stabil for ethanol gas - especially if you depend on your gas storage. Stabil works for me in my generator as long as 9 months.

But if you can lose the ethanol DO IT!


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## Philbert (Jul 19, 2010)

mtngun said:


> For the last pass or two, the log is not strong enough to support my weight, . . .
> Normally I fasten the guide rail with a single screw at each end of the log, but sometimes for the last pass, I will add a 3rd screw in the middle of the log, to keep it from flexing.



Thanks.

I was thinking that maybe you either blocked it up from underneath, or flipped the last part over onto some of the cut boards for support.

Philbert


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## Philbert (Jul 19, 2010)

mtngun said:


> I purchase fuel by the barrel for the woodhauler because it seldom leaves pavement and it's a 4 - 5 hour round trip to the nearest gas station.



Can you put some type of fuel/water separator into your fuel pump? I'm thinking of something along the lines of the water separators used on air lines - glass jars/bells with a drain valve on the bottom.

Philbert

P.S. - Maybe Kevin Costner has something to sell you . . .


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## BobL (Jul 19, 2010)

mtngun said:


> Glad to hear you are enjoying the mountains, Bob.



I sure am.

Moraine Lake - starting point for our SUnday hike






Larch Meadow -end point of the hike,
See the glacier atop the mountains on the rhs.





I aimed my telephoto at that glacier (Fay Glacier)
and spotted these four dots on the the glacier..





Zooming right in on that image.


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## mtngun (Jul 19, 2010)

Philbert said:


> Can you put some type of fuel/water separator into your fuel pump? I'm thinking of something along the lines of the water separators used on air lines - glass jars/bells with a drain valve on the bottom.


I'm not sure, freezing might be a problem in the winter. 

Actually I don't have a pump at the moment, the problem gas had been siphoned from the barrel. Normally, I dump the last 5 gallons or so from the barrel due to water contamination, but it's possible that the siphon was sucking from the very bottom where the water was.

Since posting the last pictures, I pulled another gallon of stale gas from the barrel, this time drawing from a valve that was 2" - 3" above the bottom. It had only a few drops of water, the rest was good gas. 

Long term, I'll probably go to an elevated gas tank with a gravity feed, and the main outlet 2" above the bottom of the tank. Then a drain valve on the very bottom of the tank to bleed off contaminated fuel.


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## mtngun (Jul 19, 2010)

Neat pictures, Bob. 

Are you sure you want to go back to Oz ?


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## BobL (Jul 20, 2010)

mtngun said:


> Neat pictures, Bob.


Thanks



> Are you sure you want to go back to Oz ?



Tempting - but I definitely want to go back - If this is summer I can sort of imagine winter, brrrrrrr ! Also most of the trees I have seen around here are way too blonde, too small and too soft and mushy.


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## Brmorgan (Jul 20, 2010)

That's pretty neat catching a glimpse of those climbers up on the ice like that!

Give us a few more years at this rate though, and our winters won't be much cooler than yours...


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