# People must be hungry



## Grace Tree (Apr 7, 2013)

I was supposed to bid on 30-40 tree removal today. Guy didn't answer his phone so I left a message. He just called me back and said he had two bids. One was $4500 and the other was $1000. I didn't see them other than bing maps but they looked like 50 footers on the edge of woods surrounding a development home. All within striking distance of the home; that's why he wanted them gone. I told him there's no sense me wasting my time. Few weeks ago a guy asked me bid on 7 oaks, all 100' or better, some over the house. Just take them apart and put them on the ground but no room to drop until they were down to 50 ft. I figured 2 1/2 hrs. each from the lift. Guy called and said he found an Amish guy to climb them for $700. Have a nice day.
Phil


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## mckeetree (Apr 7, 2013)

Small Wood said:


> I was supposed to bid on 30-40 tree removal today. Guy didn't answer his phone so I left a message. He just called me back and said he had two bids. One was $4500 and the other was $1000. I didn't see them other than bing maps but they looked like 50 footers on the edge of woods surrounding a development home. All within striking distance of the home; that's why he wanted them gone. I told him there's no sense me wasting my time. Few weeks ago a guy asked me bid on 7 oaks, all 100' or better, some over the house. Just take them apart and put them on the ground but no room to drop until they were down to 50 ft. I figured 2 1/2 hrs. each from the lift. Guy called and said he found an Amish guy to climb them for $700. Have a nice day.
> Phil



That's just ridiculous.


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## 2treeornot2tree (Apr 7, 2013)

Sounds like the low ballers are everywhere and not just around here.


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## deevo (Apr 7, 2013)

Small Wood said:


> I was supposed to bid on 30-40 tree removal today. Guy didn't answer his phone so I left a message. He just called me back and said he had two bids. One was $4500 and the other was $1000. I didn't see them other than bing maps but they looked like 50 footers on the edge of woods surrounding a development home. All within striking distance of the home; that's why he wanted them gone. I told him there's no sense me wasting my time. Few weeks ago a guy asked me bid on 7 oaks, all 100' or better, some over the house. Just take them apart and put them on the ground but no room to drop until they were down to 50 ft. I figured 2 1/2 hrs. each from the lift. Guy called and said he found an Amish guy to climb them for $700. Have a nice day.
> Phil



Obviously the guy doesn't ever want to make any money or grow his business.....likely no business plan because he cannnot spell it or knows what one is! Will not make it long in this industry or likes living poor! All these idiots who are dragging this industry down, oh well only takes one bad incident for these hacks to have and thats it. They seem to be everywhere, hacks with ladders and wild things! We just have a good laugh at them when we pass by!


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## joezilla11 (Apr 7, 2013)

He's Amish he doesn't need much money! I'm close by and see it all the time. When u live in Amish country there's a cheap Amish guy for any job it seems like.


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## husqvarnaguy (Apr 7, 2013)

Most of the time you get what you pay for. Buy cheap you get cheap.


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## epicklein22 (Apr 7, 2013)

joezilla11 said:


> He's Amish he doesn't need much money! I'm close by and see it all the time. When u live in Amish country there's a cheap Amish guy for any job it seems like.



I bid on some 100'+ foot oaks last year. Huge limbs over power lines and all that. None could be dropped, technical removals. I was at about $400 to $500 a tree to just get them on the ground. Amish guy came in and did them for 200 a tree. I give him credit since he didn't hit anything or the power lines; he must of had the skill, but needs to learn how to bid.

It's just like the amish chainsaw shops. They run them out of their homes, so there is little to no bills to run the shop. They charge $20 to $25 an hour for repairs, just plain crazy. Quality is hit and miss.


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## old_soul (Apr 7, 2013)

Small Wood said:


> I was supposed to bid on 30-40 tree removal today. Guy didn't answer his phone so I left a message. He just called me back and said he had two bids. One was $4500 and the other was $1000. I didn't see them other than bing maps but they looked like 50 footers on the edge of woods surrounding a development home. All within striking distance of the home; that's why he wanted them gone. I told him there's no sense me wasting my time. Few weeks ago a guy asked me bid on 7 oaks, all 100' or better, some over the house. Just take them apart and put them on the ground but no room to drop until they were down to 50 ft. I figured 2 1/2 hrs. each from the lift. Guy called and said he found an Amish guy to climb them for $700. Have a nice day.
> Phil



That sucks, seems like i've been wasting alot of time lately too. Going to look at jobs I know I'm not going to get. 

We lost a clearing job recently, somebody bid 2000 per acre:msp_ohmy::msp_ohmy:


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## mattfr12 (Apr 7, 2013)

We bid a cherry tree on a house and stuck in another pine also for like 1400.00 and thought I really had the upper hand with the knuckle boom. since I know who has cranes in my area. Boy was I wrong he called to see if I wanted to Match a 400.00 bid guy even said other bidder had no equipment but could get it down. I said good luck


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## mikewhite85 (Apr 7, 2013)

Happens to all of us constantly... even to the unlicensed guys who are always underbidding each other! The lawn guys here are worse off. Many are illegal and do not even have driver's licenses- and they are constantly competing for the smallest and lousiest jobs. I can't imagine that you can be legit and make a profit as a lawn guy here in socal.

I try not to let it frustrate me though it does sometimes. Customers are always saying "well the other guy said he would do it for this..." 

I try to think about it as the difference between eating at McDonalds and a steakhouse. Like restaurants, not all tree services are equal!

I am thankful for a good base of customers who are willing to pay the higher dollar for a legit company with quality service.


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## ropensaddle (Apr 8, 2013)

It's tough prolly toughest I can remember hell I've seen 80s pricing. Oh well I guess I need a get r done price and a quality


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## imagineero (Apr 8, 2013)

Went and quoted a removal last week for $1800, client told me my competitor bid 1500. I told him straight away "really? If he'll do it for 1500, I'm putting my price up to 2,000." The guy really got worked up then. He ended up asking me to do the job at 1800. 

I wish my competitors would charge a LOT less. If I go in and bid a job at $5k, and someone else comes in and bids at $4500, I may not win that job. If someone comes in and bids at $1000, I'm definitely going to win it at $5k!

Shaun


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## ducaticorse (Apr 8, 2013)

imagineero said:


> Went and quoted a removal last week for $1800, client told me my competitor bid 1500. I told him straight away "really? If he'll do it for 1500, I'm putting my price up to 2,000." The guy really got worked up then. He ended up asking me to do the job at 1800.
> 
> I wish my competitors would charge a LOT less. If I go in and bid a job at $5k, and someone else comes in and bids at $4500, I may not win that job. If someone comes in and bids at $1000, I'm definitely going to win it at $5k!
> 
> Shaun



I don't get that. ^


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## ducaticorse (Apr 8, 2013)

I started my own biz about four years ago in an economy about as bad as it gets. I still managed to do alright. As people have mentioned above. Individuals with zero business sense may cut a few throats before their own demise as a direct result of their pricing, but that is it. There is no way to sustain a business pricing that way. And with little to no equipment, those jobs that take us a day, will take them three, keeping them out of the market for longer periods of time. It's simple math, and there is no denying it. They will never be able to save to buy the equipment, more than likely aren't carrying any insurance, licenses, etc. Eventually those things combined are going to take their toll.


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## imagineero (Apr 8, 2013)

ducaticorse said:


> I don't get that. ^



Maybe the market is different here from where you're at. I do mostly residential, and it's not the sort of stuff that hacks can do. We very rarely get crane access, and the yards here are tight. You can't get machinery in, so everything is done by hand. The trees are usually on top of property, and people worry about getting the job done without damage. 

When people quote a ridiculously low price, almost nobody bites here. I win those jobs easily. The hardest jobs to win are those that are very close. I had one last week I bid $1750. Guy rang me back and said he had 3 quotes. One was exactly the same as mine, the other was $100 cheaper. He said he liked my attitude, but could i match the other guy at $100 less? I asked if he got copies of the other guys insurance and licenses, and he did. I told him to go with the other guy for $100 less, but make sure not to pay any money up front, and make sure all the cleanup is done before paying. 

Those sorts of very close quotes, where there's only maybe 5% difference, its generally the guy who does the last quote who wins. 

Shaun


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## lone wolf (Apr 8, 2013)

2treeornot2tree said:


> Sounds like the low ballers are everywhere and not just around here.



Like Craigs list!


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## ducaticorse (Apr 8, 2013)

imagineero said:


> Maybe the market is different here from where you're at. I do mostly residential, and it's not the sort of stuff that hacks can do. We very rarely get crane access, and the yards here are tight. You can't get machinery in, so everything is done by hand. The trees are usually on top of property, and people worry about getting the job done without damage.
> 
> When people quote a ridiculously low price, almost nobody bites here. I win those jobs easily. The hardest jobs to win are those that are very close. I had one last week I bid $1750. Guy rang me back and said he had 3 quotes. One was exactly the same as mine, the other was $100 cheaper. He said he liked my attitude, but could i match the other guy at $100 less? I asked if he got copies of the other guys insurance and licenses, and he did. I told him to go with the other guy for $100 less, but make sure not to pay any money up front, and make sure all the cleanup is done before paying.
> 
> ...



I applaud you for sticking to your guns, but loosing a $1850 bid over 100 bucks seems like a stretch. I would have matched the price to get the job on that particular one. Why did you pass on such short money?


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## lone wolf (Apr 8, 2013)

ducaticorse said:


> I applaud you for sticking to your guns, but loosing a $1850 bid over 100 bucks seems like a stretch. I would have matched the price to get the job on that particular one. Why did you pass on such short money?



And I don't know if I would give him any more free advice after you lost the bid either. Let him possibly get ripped off by the competition who cares .


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## KenJax Tree (Apr 8, 2013)

We just left our first job (was supposed to be anyways) so we get there and the HO comes out and says 'sorry guys but my BIL is gonna do it next weekend as a favor, i was gonna call yesterday and cancel but didn't think you took calls on Sunday':bang:. Its a cotton wood about 90ft. And the limbs are over his house,garage,power lines,and neighbors garage and best of all the landing zone is about 20ft wide and everything has to be lowered down. This is exactly why i quit working for myself and work for someone else, its nice getting a check every Friday without all the BS.


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## ropensaddle (Apr 8, 2013)

KenJax Tree said:


> We just left our first job (was supposed to be anyways) so we get there and the HO comes out and says 'sorry guys but my BIL is gonna do it next weekend as a favor, i was gonna call yesterday and cancel but didn't think you took calls on Sunday':bang:. Its a cotton wood about 90ft. And the limbs are over his house,garage,power lines,and neighbors garage and best of all the landing zone is about 20ft wide and everything has to be lowered down. This is exactly why i quit working for myself and work for someone else, its nice getting a check every Friday without all the BS.



Good reason for a contract with a 300.00 cancellation clause, If I ever get ahead I'm going to get some custom contracts printed with the clause it may help with those last minute pull outs.


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## ducaticorse (Apr 8, 2013)

KenJax Tree said:


> We just left our first job (was supposed to be anyways) so we get there and the HO comes out and says 'sorry guys but my BIL is gonna do it next weekend as a favor, i was gonna call yesterday and cancel but didn't think you took calls on Sunday':bang:. Its a cotton wood about 90ft. And the limbs are over his house,garage,power lines,and neighbors garage and best of all the landing zone is about 20ft wide and everything has to be lowered down. This is exactly why i quit working for myself and work for someone else, its nice getting a check every Friday without all the BS.



That there is some bull sheet. I would have been RIPPED. And I would NEVER DO THIS WORK FOR SOMEONE ELSE....


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## treemandan (Apr 8, 2013)

ducaticorse said:


> I don't get that. ^



Its simple; People in Australia are not as dumb as we thought they were. Hell, they had me going but I cause its some kind of trick.


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## woodchuck357 (Apr 8, 2013)

*'puter, internet, printer, paper = custom contract. Almost no cost.*

:cool2:


ropensaddle said:


> Good reason for a contract with a 300.00 cancellation clause, If I ever get ahead I'm going to get some custom contracts printed with the clause it may help with those last minute pull outs.


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## ropensaddle (Apr 8, 2013)

woodchuck357 said:


> :cool2:



Hmmm well I want it to be binding lol you know all the shall,should, what if's lawyers put in them


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## Blakesmaster (Apr 8, 2013)

ropensaddle said:


> Hmmm well I want it to be binding lol you know all the shall,should, what if's lawyers put in them



I got a pretty tight contract I use, Rope. Another guy from the site hooked me up with the wording years ago. Would be happy to pass it on to you if you want. I just take the print out to Kinko's when I'm running low and they run em off for me carbon copy attached and all. I spend a couple hundred bucks a year if that.


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## Blakesmaster (Apr 8, 2013)

Not sure if it's the time of year or what here but the lowballers are all over. If I had a buck for every rusty ass old bucket truck I see out... kinda weird though, was undershot by a good amount on a bid last week by the biggest dog in town. They were at $350, I was at a grand. I'm used to them bidding a few hundred under me on big projects but that one weirded me out. I rarely move a truck for that price, much less spend half a day working for it.


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## luckydad (Apr 8, 2013)

Blakesmaster said:


> I got a pretty tight contract I use, Rope. Another guy from the site hooked me up with the wording years ago. Would be happy to pass it on to you if you want. I just take the print out to Kinko's when I'm running low and they run em off for me carbon copy attached and all. I spend a couple hundred bucks a year if that.



Could you send me a copy of that contract if you don't mind ??


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## ducaticorse (Apr 8, 2013)

Blakesmaster said:


> Not sure if it's the time of year or what here but the lowballers are all over. If I had a buck for every rusty ass old bucket truck I see out... kinda weird though, was undershot by a good amount on a bid last week by the biggest dog in town. They were at $350, I was at a grand. I'm used to them bidding a few hundred under me on big projects but that one weirded me out. I rarely move a truck for that price, much less spend half a day working for it.



Maybe it was a new salesman? I dunno, that's a pretty large gap for a direct competitor... There are also a lot of guys starving at the onset of a season, especially those who haven't or weren't able to do much tree work due to the weather we had in our sector this past season. 

I blew through about $40K cash in the last two weeks getting set up for this season. I am basically starting from scratch this year, as I have been out of business for almost two years now. You bet I will be blowing out prices in my area for nothing else but exposure. I won't be going out for free or loosing money, but I certainly won't be getting rich either.


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## Blakesmaster (Apr 8, 2013)

luckydad said:


> Could you send me a copy of that contract if you don't mind ??



No offense, but who the #### are you? Lol, just kidding. I'd be happy to help you out but I'm not lawyer. Also would like to make sure you arent my local comp. Sed me a pm.


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## ducaticorse (Apr 8, 2013)

Blakesmaster said:


> No offense, but who the #### are you? Lol, just kidding. I'd be happy to help you out but I'm not lawyer. Also would like to make sure you arent my local comp. Sed me a pm.



Chris, he's a great guy!! I bought my new bucket from him! He far, far south from you ;-)


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## Blakesmaster (Apr 8, 2013)

ducaticorse said:


> Maybe it was a new salesman? I dunno, that's a pretty large gap for a direct competitor... There are also a lot of guys starving at the onset of a season, especially those who haven't or weren't able to do much tree work due to the weather we had in our sector this past season.
> 
> I blew through about $40K cash in the last two weeks getting set up for this season. I am basically starting from scratch this year, as I have been out of business for almost two years now. You bet I will be blowing out prices in my area for nothing else but exposure. I won't be going out for free or loosing money, but I certainly won't be getting rich either.



Best of luck this year, bud. I'm sure you'll get back there again.  

Possibly a new salesman. Was a easy tree, bucket access, no haul, but the house, and service lines were right underneath. What threw me was the 350 quote. I charge that much to roll up and cut down a few yew bushes. If I'm airborne for longer than 30 minutes I'm easily bidding 500 plus on the job.


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## ducaticorse (Apr 8, 2013)

Blakesmaster said:


> Best of luck this year, bud. I'm sure you'll get back there again.
> 
> Possibly a new salesman. Was a easy tree, bucket access, no haul, but the house, and service lines were right underneath. What threw me was the 350 quote. I charge that much to roll up and cut down a few yew bushes. If I'm airborne for longer than 30 minutes I'm easily bidding 500 plus on the job.



I agree with you there. I wouldn't be doing a removal of any sort, let alone over wires for less than $500. Maybe it was a favor or a friend, but $350 straight up makes zero sense.

But the no haul and no chipping would save me a good amount of time and effort too.


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## Blakesmaster (Apr 8, 2013)

ducaticorse said:


> I agree with you there. I wouldn't be doing a removal of any sort, let alone over wires for less than $500. Maybe it was a favor or a friend, but $350 straight up makes zero sense.
> 
> But the no haul and no chipping would save me a good amount of time and effort too.



I just don't dig on no hauls anymore. I got all this equipment and crew, leave them idle while I do all the hard work? I can see it on long drags but curbside ####? I don't need my name on that mess.


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## treeman75 (Apr 8, 2013)

This season is starting out real slow, last year I was 2-3 weeks out. I know one thing Im going to focus on this year is up saleing.


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## mckeetree (Apr 8, 2013)

treeman75 said:


> This season is starting out real slow, last year I was 2-3 weeks out. I know one thing Im going to focus on this year is up saleing.



Up selling can backfire on you. You really, really need to know what you are doing with an up sell. What to up sell, when to go for it, how much to try to up sell, etc. Especially the moment to try it, that is the most important. I learned from one of the best but I am nowhere as good as he was. That guy sold for several tree companies and would make (in the 80's) $500.00 a day in commissions by noon and play golf the rest of the day.


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## arborealbuffoon (Apr 8, 2013)

treeman75 said:


> This season is starting out real slow, last year I was 2-3 weeks out. I know one thing Im going to focus on this year is up saleing.



Slowest spring I've ever seen. Been doing this in the same market since 1990. Welcome to the New World Order.


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## treeman75 (Apr 8, 2013)

mckeetree said:


> Up selling can backfire on you. You really, really need to know what you are doing with an up sell. What to up sell, when to go for it, how much to try to up sell, etc. Especially the moment to try it, that is the most important. I learned from one of the best but I am nowhere as good as he was. That guy sold for several tree companies and would make (in the 80's) $500.00 a day in commissions by noon and play golf the rest of the day.



I know what your saying about how and when. My dad has been in sales for 45 years and I have been in and around sales my whole life. Alot of people think they're good but cant close a screen door.


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## mckeetree (Apr 8, 2013)

treeman75 said:


> I know what your saying about how and when. My dad has been in sales for 45 years and I have been in and around sales my whole life. Alot of people think they're good but cant close a screen door.



That's true. And the good ones can sell anything from snow cones to sex products.


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## treeman82 (Apr 8, 2013)

I've been doing bids lately, and in all honesty it feels like I have been giving them for the heck of it. Bid a job last week for 3K+, I know I won't get it. Put in another bid yesterday for $1,750 and I know I won't get that either. Did another one last week, looked at the job, lady was supposed to contact me about a written estimate, she never did. We were working around the corner from her today and the local hacker was there butchering some trees for cheap. I hate to say that a lot of my friends and I have been bidding jobs lately with the knowledge that we won't get them.

My attitude is I will help just about anybody; friends, co-workers, family, etc. you need a tree or branches I'll come help you for cheap. When we start talking about customers / clients though... unless there is some kind of back-story I need to be paid. In all honesty it's not as though we are going to their houses to pull weeds or something, and I am not about to go kill myself only to put $100 in my pocket at the end of the day (just so that I can say I got the job) though it seems like so many are.


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## ducaticorse (Apr 8, 2013)

treeman82 said:


> I've been doing bids lately, and in all honesty it feels like I have been giving them for the heck of it. Bid a job last week for 3K+, I know I won't get it. Put in another bid yesterday for $1,750 and I know I won't get that either. Did another one last week, looked at the job, lady was supposed to contact me about a written estimate, she never did. We were working around the corner from her today and the local hacker was there butchering some trees for cheap. I hate to say that a lot of my friends and I have been bidding jobs lately with the knowledge that we won't get them.
> 
> My attitude is I will help just about anybody; friends, co-workers, family, etc. you need a tree or branches I'll come help you for cheap. When we start talking about customers / clients though... unless there is some kind of back-story I need to be paid. In all honesty it's not as though we are going to their houses to pull weeds or something, and I am not about to go kill myself only to put $100 in my pocket at the end of the day (just so that I can say I got the job) though it seems like so many are.



I see this to be true, and the same thing goes for other service related industries. But lets face it. We are not plumbers, people need to be able to take a shower and a dump. We are not electricians and people need to be able to watch springer, and heat up left overs in the microwave.

We are, for the most part, a luxury unless it's an emergency situation. There is always going to be a lowballer, and, it is established businesses that need to maintain the market rate. But to go out of business while doing so does no one any good. Markets fluctuate for the better and for the worse, that is how it works. Someone here says its the worst spring he's seen since the 1990! I don't see how that is possible, but that's his market. The trick in this type of economy is to do as many bids as possible and hope to get a certain percentage. OR, you can go and drop a rock bottom price that is just enough to keep the men and bills paid, plus put a little in your pocket. MY posts on FB alone with pics of me driving my bucket up from "bama have netted me 5 bids since last night.. I will get all five of them too. 

Getting aggressive with the big sales is a no bueno IMHO. Just persevere, make what you can and it will get better. Strategy is the key. Not dwelling on lowballing hacks stealing your work every once in a while.


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## ShaneLogs (Apr 9, 2013)

That's outrageous. If he doesn't want you to climb and rig them professionally then I hope he has a good time with an un-licensed and an un-certified guy taking them down!


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## richard t (Apr 9, 2013)

ShaneLogs said:


> That's outrageous. If he doesn't want you to climb and rig them professionally then I hope he has a good time with an un-licensed and an un-certified guy taking them down!





I bid a job in the fall got a call on it today guy said remember you bid it at 500 my papers said 750 for taking the limbs off a big dead oak tree and leaving the log stand he said he had a bid for 400 and I told him to call that guy then he said he was iffy about a guy trying to do it off a 40 foot ladder:msp_w00t: So he told me to set it up.


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## jefflovstrom (Apr 27, 2013)

marklee said:


> The industry is growing day by day.There is much potential in this market.The Industry is deprived of skilled workforce.People part is important and should be properly rewarded.



I smell a Troll,,,,,,,,,


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## ropensaddle (Apr 27, 2013)

*Opps I musta been nuts*

I went to look at a job today 8 large pine two medium gums and one oak trim. Why is it everytime I bid a large project I tend to include a discount per tree thinking the end price will scare them off lol. Looks like I will get the job, oh well, at least pine chips nice and even at 500 per pine I should come out ok because of quantity. The guy immediately said we will be calling you soon that price seems real reasonable. I then explained any one of those trees alone would easily be 750. to a grand but since there's 8 it is a production job lol.


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## richard t (Apr 29, 2013)

ropensaddle said:


> I went to look at a job today 8 large pine two medium gums and one oak trim. Why is it everytime I bid a large project I tend to include a discount per tree thinking the end price will scare them off lol. Looks like I will get the job, oh well, at least pine chips nice and even at 500 per pine I should come out ok because of quantity. The guy immediately said we will be calling you soon that price seems real reasonable. I then explained any one of those trees alone would easily be 750. to a grand but since there's 8 it is a production job lol.





500 a tree this guy will do them all for 500 $500.00 a day TREE SERVICE SPECIAL!! :msp_scared:


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## Grace Tree (Apr 29, 2013)

In most cases I'd work for $500 per day with no cleanup.
Phil


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## treeclimber101 (Apr 29, 2013)

I bid a job for 2300 that was done for 650 .oo so yea there are some ripples in the tree industry around here , when the lady called and told me the other guys price was , I immediately thought hey this guy may be my new tree sub


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## TreeFrogTC (May 1, 2013)

I invoiced a lady 40$ today for not calling to cancel a quote she requested 3 days ago, I showed up to see the removal job was already done. Thanks for wasting my time, fuel, office etc. costs. We need to see about major changes in the industry and charge for quotes to curb the volume of tire kickers and people looking for free consultation.


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## sgreanbeans (May 2, 2013)

I used to get all worked up over the hacks, now I dont even care. I get calls all the time from people who want my advice after the fact, like they are tattle telling on the guy to me. I get a kick out of the stories I hear, but what do they want me to do, tell them they are a dumbchit for hiring them? Ok ur a dumbchit! My neighbor has a pretty damn big oak, it needs to go, hazardous. I would be around 4500 for something like this but told him 2500, he is across the street and owns a gun store, so I thought the discount would be paid forward. He went with a known hack for 800! I just laughed and said good luck. I have done alot for this guy over the years and was pretty taken back when he told me. Kinda a FU. I cant wait, I will stay home the day he does it. This guys has no equipment, has a huge rep for tearing chit up because he goes big all the time. Climbs a ladder up as high as he can and that's where all the cutting is done. So I will park my skidsteer out front so he can look at it all day. I keep all oak and bring it home for firewood and would have kept this, but I will watch him disc and qtr all those 45" dia chunks and hand load them out and pile them into his new F-250 that looks like it has been in demolition derby (poor truck). I bet it take him 3-4 days to get it done.........with a crew................for 800! I will probably set up the GoPro, just in case something cool happens.

No matter how much we beyatch about them, they will never go away. I tried to bring rules to the game here, but all the hacks have a uncle or FIL on the city councils and they are not going to vote their family out of business, so I gave up. I just focus on doing the best job I can and try and get the most money. Once I drop a bid, I move on to the next, no sense and wondering if I will get it, if I do, they will call. The AA's of the industry will always be there, mucking it up as normal, putting out adds that say "pro tree topping" and jazz like that. I try to educate each client, so then they can pass it along, the dif between us and them. While I was gone, I had several clients use other services for some stuff. It only helped me as they were use to how I did things, then these assclowns show, not knowing the client has already has a high expectation, then they perform as they always do, like fools with a bad habit, cementing the need for a pro. Had some line clearance hacks do side work at a clients home, they pruned the trees the same way they do when they are on the clock for the ROW, again, same reaction. Client is pissed at himself because they hired them, tore the hell out of their trees, no concept of proper pruning, told me "never again" When I left, I forwarded my clients on to the local branch of the same company I was working for. Got beyatched out yesterday by a longtime client for it. "They suck, why did you refer them" I wanted to climb into a hole. So whether its the small crack head out fit, line clearance hacks doing side work or the big shows who don't care about quality, just quantity. It makes it pretty easy for the Jedi to look like..............well... Jedi!

As JPS told me, we need hacks, makes it easier for us to look good!


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## ropensaddle (May 2, 2013)

richard t said:


> 500 a tree this guy will do them all for 500 $500.00 a day TREE SERVICE SPECIAL!! :msp_scared:



Lol well these pines if lucky I will get two finished per day I was not thinking clear that day but it will pay bills! Pine does clean up well though!


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## Erwin (May 3, 2013)

I'm a self proprietor only working on saturdays (maybe 2/3 of them). In a normal year, I can expect 15 to 20K. I have my won 6" chipper, a F350 self constructed chip truck, a Bobcat MT55 with a stump grinder attachment. If I charge by the hour (lots of my regular clients do), I get 135/Hr. If I bid on a job, I add only 20% more to it. It worked out great for the past 14 years, hopefully another 14 before I pay off the house and retire. In this economy, one has to find his own nitch and establish a good reputation.


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## Woodgar (May 6, 2013)

Same thing happening here, customers more n more seem to just be chasing numbers, as I call it... Darn illegitimate hacks just inflate the industry. I for one would rather let the equipment rest at my shop than waste my time working for less than jobs are worth!


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## ropensaddle (May 10, 2013)

I went to grind stumps 8 of them and I told the customer that I have bucket and do trees too. We made small talk a bit, then I said did the tree men stick it to you, he said yes, they charged me 3 k lmfao the smallest stump was 36" at a foot tall ! I told the man he got a steal that it would of been much higher had I done it  Two of them were 46 inch sycamores the rest were gum and he said they had 8 men on it two days!


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## kjasmant (May 12, 2013)

Where I live we have a tree service that tries to rape all their customers. I've subcontracted with them they charge crazy high prices. I bid on a job trimming one limb off an oak over a roof, and taking down an ash tree (approx 35 ft tall out in the open), and elevating the crown of a silver maple that hit the lady in the head while she mows (her words not mine). but I said Id do the job for 600. and this other guy came in and told her 1000 on just the ash tree alone. she told him no right then and there but I woulda been interested to see what the rest of the job woulda cost her by going with him.


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## mckeetree (May 13, 2013)

kjasmant said:


> Where I live we have a tree service that tries to rape all their customers. I've subcontracted with them they charge crazy high prices. I bid on a job trimming one limb off an oak over a roof, and taking down an ash tree (approx 35 ft tall out in the open), and elevating the crown of a silver maple that hit the lady in the head while she mows (her words not mine). but I said Id do the job for 600. and this other guy came in and told her 1000 on just the ash tree alone. she told him no right then and there but I woulda been interested to see what the rest of the job woulda cost her by going with him.



You sound like my competition around here talking about me. I hear it all the time...but hey, when there's not much dough I won't go.


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## RAG66 (May 20, 2013)

Having a hard time getting people to understand they do NOT need 5-6 estimates to get the job done at a resonable price. I go in as number 4-5 sometimes and the customer admits to this. I ask sometimes if they have ever had someone waste their time and how did it make them feel. I figure most of the time I will NOT get the job at that point anyway, so why not make them aware of how they are treating someone else. I do get the job from time to time at that point, maybe they feel bad. Sometimes it is the lowest bid. I see huge variables in price and quality of work. LOTS of cut throat going on here!!! :angry2:


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## Grace Tree (May 21, 2013)

Called a guy for an estimate appointment last week for a guy who lives 30 miles away. I keep the appointment but no one's home and he doesn't answer his house or cell phone. I leave a message but he still hasn't called back. Nice. He went into my contact list with a ringback tone that repeats don't call me; don't ever call me. I like it when they call, hear the ringback and hang up. I've only been stiffed a few times but one woman actually had a guy use her name as a reference. "Mrs. Green says you do great work." I gave lots of reasons why I wouldn't work for anyone using her name as contact. Mrs. Green was an elementary principal and he was a teacher. Hope the whole faculty got the word. The other was a woman in a sub who stiffed me and then gave my name to her neighbor. Sorry, but we don't work on that street and here's why. Small revenge but it's better than feeling like you just bent over and took it without saying a word.
Phil


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## stltreedr (May 21, 2013)

kjasmant said:


> Where I live we have a tree service that tries to rape all their customers. I've subcontracted with them they charge crazy high prices. I bid on a job trimming one limb off an oak over a roof, and taking down an ash tree (approx 35 ft tall out in the open), and elevating the crown of a silver maple that hit the lady in the head while she mows (her words not mine). but I said Id do the job for 600. and this other guy came in and told her 1000 on just the ash tree alone. she told him no right then and there but I woulda been interested to see what the rest of the job woulda cost her by going with him.




funny, those services that "rape" all their customers seem to be around the longest.... You'd think people would catch on. Or maybe they're paying their employees decent wages with benefits, paying taxes, doing everything legally, and actually turning a profit.


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## Toddppm (May 21, 2013)

stltreedr said:


> funny, those services that "rape" all their customers seem to be around the longest.... You'd think people would catch on. Or maybe they're paying their employees decent wages with benefits, paying taxes, doing everything legally, and actually turning a profit.



Usually heard from the new guys who have no idea what it actually costs to run a legitimate business and stay in business. A few of my friends used to say it to me too, #### I know I've said it too about a couple of co's when I first started.


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## mckeetree (May 21, 2013)

Toddppm said:


> Usually heard from the new guys who have no idea what it actually costs to run a legitimate business and stay in business. A few of my friends used to say it to me too, #### I know I've said it too about a couple of co's when I first started.



I have been in business 27 years. Every new outfit that tries to start up around here and every Mexican around here claims we are just outright highway robbers demanding ridiculous fees for our work. I remember one clown from a few years ago that trashed us and our prices everywhere he went. He was one of those D250 Dodge pickup and a 16ft light duty utility trailer cats. I watched that guy just literally sink to nothing. He got down to trying to borrow his neighbor's old Datsun pickup to do tree work out of. Now there is this guy that has sorta took his place with the exact same set up.


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