# Any self-taught climbers?



## Dt1987 (Feb 21, 2016)

Hello everyone, im a newb here and was wandering how many people get into this without "proper" training or a mentor. I work for a small landscape company and we regularly do tree work but will sub out anything that has to be climbed or have a bucket truck to complete. I told my boss i was interested in learning the trade and now i have some gear on the way. I am physically fit and have always done labor intensive work and a pay raise or bonuses will be welcomed. Starting low and slow is not a problem for me, and i apply common sense well, im not just gonna strap in and go drop a tree onto a house or power lines. I want to do this right and was wandering if there is many people that just learned things on there own. Ive read some lit. and do lots of research like the tree workers dvd pt. 1 and 2(anybody seen them? are they informative?) There is a school close to me in Atlanta for tree workers that ive had my eye own and could attend in the future on my employers dime. Anyone have tips for the begginer?


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## Del_ (Feb 21, 2016)

Do yourself a huge favor and attend a TCI Expo. 

Just attend the vendors area if you want to save some bucks and you will never be the same.

Walk the sales area with hundreds of climbers and you will not ever be able to call yourself a 'self taught climber' again.

You will be amazed.

http://tcia.org/events/tci-expo


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## Dt1987 (Feb 21, 2016)

Those tcia training programs seem like a good option for the money, maybe me and my co-workers could check out a few of them. Thanks Del


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## jefflovstrom (Feb 21, 2016)

Since your boss sub's that out, why not quit your job and apply with a tree company. If you are serious about climbing you would be hired by any legit company as a trainee,,,I would.
Jeff


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## Dt1987 (Feb 21, 2016)

Well that is an option but I like my job and my boss. He's not only my employer but my freind, and I plan on staying with him. This will be an expansion of an already established and trusted company.


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## Pelorus (Feb 21, 2016)

X2 on attending TCI Expo. Being held Nov. 10-12 in Baltimore this year.
Get a copy of Jepson's "Tree Climber's Companion", and his knot book if you don't already have them.
btw, I started out as a self-taught climber (1980's) and feel fortunate to still be alive and more or less intact, lol.


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## scheffa (Feb 22, 2016)

I started out self taught before I start working for a tree company. I read all the books watched a few videos and had a go low and slow. Climbing with the boys at work has increased my skill level faster than I could have imagined.

Time in the tree is the only real way to learn


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## Griff93 (Feb 22, 2016)

Remember, mistakes learning this can be fatal or life changing. 

Where in Alabama are you?


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## ATH (Feb 22, 2016)

So a lot of discussion about learning to climb. Lets back uo a little... Do you know anything about trees?

I am pretty sure I could figure out spilcing bones together with a metal plate or wrapping quick dry fiberglass aroun a broken leg. I even recognized the hairline crack on the xray in my sons leg before a doctor looked at the radiograph (xray tech wasn't allowed to comment on it one way or the other). I wouldn't want me anywhere near a patient needing an orthopedic surgeon...not because I don't think I couldn't use the tools but because I'd kill the patient in the process.

So, yeah...start low and slow with the climbing, but fast and furious with learning about trees. A few books I'd recommend (hoping others will chime in with their picks):
A New Tree Biology (Shigo)
An Illustrated Guide to Pruning (Gillan)
Up by Roots (Urban)
ISA Building Blocks of Arboriculture

Not only will you serve your clients better, but you will be safer in the tree because you will know what you should and shouldn't be doing.


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## JeffGu (Feb 22, 2016)

And even if they're your own trees... you'll be able to manage them better, the more you know about them.


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## Tree94 (Feb 22, 2016)

You can teach yourself the basics.
You could go prune some small - medium sized trees in the neighborhood.

However, I wouldn't go setting up huge crane removals just yet if I were you......

jerry beranek working clumber dvds are really good imo...


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## Tree94 (Feb 22, 2016)

Griff93 said:


> Remember, mistakes learning this can be fatal or life changing.


X2 on that though... be careful.....


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## Dt1987 (Feb 22, 2016)

Griff93 said:


> Remember, mistakes learning this can be fatal or life changing.
> 
> Where in Alabama are you?


North Al. Close to Huntsville


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## Dt1987 (Feb 22, 2016)

ATH said:


> So a lot of discussion about learning to climb. Lets back uo a little... Do you know anything about trees?
> 
> I am pretty sure I could figure out spilcing bones together with a metal plate or wrapping quick dry fiberglass aroun a broken leg. I even recognized the hairline crack on the xray in my sons leg before a doctor looked at the radiograph (xray tech wasn't allowed to comment on it one way or the other). I wouldn't want me anywhere near a patient needing an orthopedic surgeon...not because I don't think I couldn't use the tools but because I'd kill the patient in the process.
> 
> ...


Thanks, I'll need to soak up some info for sure. Pruning is something I think we could sell and I'll be learning to climb without spikes at first. I'm going to become comfortable with my climbing skills before I do any work, as I'm in no big rush.


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## Griff93 (Feb 22, 2016)

Who are you working for? There's a couple of guys I won't have anything to do with at all. Feel free to pm me if you don't want to put it up on the open forum. 

I'll let you come over and show you at least how to be safe climbing if you want. I don't want to see anybody get hurt doing this, especially not younger enthusiastic guys wanting to learn to climb that don't have a mentor. 

On this business side of things, be aware our local market is flooded and has a bunch of people that aren't legitimate. There's 112 tree services in this area including ours last time I checked. I also know of someone looking to hire a helper. He's a veteran tree guy of 35 years and would really teach you to climb if you want really want to learn tree work.


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## Geordie (Feb 23, 2016)

I read the two Jeff Jepson books before I got hired and they were immensely helpful. However, I still had two mentors once I started working and I think starting out without their help would have been difficult and dangerous. I have found there are many small things that can go wrong in the tree that experienced climbers will anticipate and warn you about. For example, when cutting a long heavy maple limp, the base will split and a large piece of wood can snap up in to your face. That's the sort of thing I would never have anticipated as a new climber. I have been climbing every day for 8 months and I still regularly encounter situations where I think I'm doing everything right and something goes wrong. Luckily only close calls so far.


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## Dt1987 (Mar 5, 2016)

Well tossing up the throw line takes plenty of practice


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## Pelorus (Mar 5, 2016)

Geordie said:


> I read the two Jeff Jepson books before I got hired and they were immensely helpful. However, I still had two mentors once I started working and I think starting out without their help would have been difficult and dangerous. I have found there are many small things that can go wrong in the tree that experienced climbers will anticipate and warn you about. For example, when cutting a long heavy maple limp, the base will split and a large piece of wood can snap up in to your face. That's the sort of thing I would never have anticipated as a new climber. I have been climbing every day for 8 months and I still regularly encounter situations where I think I'm doing everything right and something goes wrong. Luckily only close calls so far.



Yeah, there is no shortage of ways to get hurt doing this stuff. 
Kinda makes it all exciting. 
Even more so when you realize your helpers on the ground are far stupider than you would have ever thought possible.


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## flyinghunter (Mar 6, 2016)

I'm pretty much self taught. And, like Geordie had 2 mentors start me off. I too count myself lucky to be uninjured. I'm no expert on the matter but I reckon climbing is one thing, trees are another and in my opinion you need to know more about trees than climbing when you start. Easy to dig yourself a hole and then be tied to that hole.


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## IyaMan (Mar 6, 2016)

I'm self taught on trees but I was previously experienced with rock climbing so I knew how to rappel, belay, and do basic rope-work. If you have no experience with such I highly recommend going to an indoor rock climbing gym to learn/practice all this (all gyms give free and/or cheap lessons. And people there are always looking for partners to practice with, so you will have no trouble getting started). Also, a rock climbing gym will prepare you for dealing with heights.
Then, once you have a grasp of rigging and your gear, just find a tree you plan to remove and start practicing, over and over. (don't use a tree you plan to keep as repeated spiking will probably kill it.) Even with my rock climbing experience for the first several climbs I rarely went more than 15 feet up.
On top of the main line (the flip-line) use an extra safety rig (a separate slip-knot rope line around the tree) which you move separately (after several years on trees I still use this). This will catch you if your spikes slip, and its always better to have two connecting points no matter what. Also, learning/practicing decent is equally important, so don't go too high at first!. Further, starting out on a bigger softwood tree with thick bark is way easier than a thinner hardwood (look for a pine or cedar more than 15" diameter).
*And never climb alone. *
But above all, if you can take a certified class, I would absolutely recommend it (this wasn't an option for me at my location)


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## Griff93 (Mar 6, 2016)

Tossing a throw line does take a lot of practice. Using a big shot takes a lot less.


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## CalTreeEquip (Mar 6, 2016)

I was self taught. Survived fine for 20 years but it got pretty dicing at times. There is a lot more info out there now. Books, schools videos. I had none of that. Hell, "The Care of Trees" hadn't even come out yet. Study whats out there and take it slow.


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## Fireaxman (Mar 22, 2016)

ATH said:


> So a lot of discussion about learning to climb. Lets back uo a little... Do you know anything about trees?



Well spoken. Walked up on a friend this week who decided he could prune his own trees. He made the cuts so close to the trunk he cut off the branch collars and made wounds twice to three times the size of what was necessary. More work for him and Very Hard on the trees, Magnolias and a Sycamore. He also made his cuts with just a single top cut, frquently ripping bark down the side of the trunk. Just two examples among Many. He is a really nice kid, just no clue how much damage he is doing.

I had a very good coach. Reminded by this thread, think I will take a moment tonight to write him a "Thank You" note. I also learn a lot from this web site. Could never call myself "Self Taught" just because of what I learn from the people here.


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## Matt J Leppek (Mar 23, 2016)

As a self taught climber (and not a very good one at that) I would recommend learning how to use a chainsaw very well on the ground, and learn how to recreation climb very well, but do not mix the two until you are comfortable and safe with both. 

During your off time learning how to climb without a chainsaw on your saddle, take the others advice and learn the trees inside and out. Check out Jerry Beranik (if you can afford his book "The fundamentals of general tree work" make that your bible. 

As far as YouTube, Climbing Arborist has some really good basic stuff to learn on, and August Hunicke has some great advanced stuff (really entertaining videos too).

Start off low and slow on a closed blakes hitch system, and don't complicate it until are really comfortable with the closed system. Other than that, take it slow, be safe, and have fun with it!


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## ATH (Mar 23, 2016)

Great post Matt.

I wouldn't start with a Blake's, but the rest is spot on! Curious, why Blake's over a split tail with an eye-to-eye? I have always thought that a simpler system...


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## Matt J Leppek (Mar 23, 2016)

I think everyone should start off with a closed blakes hitch system. Only need one rope, no split tail or eye to eye. 

You never know when you might need to know how to make a system out of only one rope. Could save you in a pinch.


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## ATH (Mar 23, 2016)

reasonable approach


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 24, 2016)

Matt J Leppek said:


> I think everyone should start off with a closed blakes hitch system. Only need one rope, no split tail or eye to eye.
> 
> You never know when you might need to know how to make a system out of only one rope. Could save you in a pinch.



LOL,, why not a monkey fist?
Jeff


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## Matt J Leppek (Mar 24, 2016)

jefflovstrom said:


> LOL,, why not a monkey fist?
> Jeff


Why all the hate on the monkey fist? It's more effective than the blakes, just harder to tie


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## BC WetCoast (Mar 24, 2016)

I don't understand. I've tied lots of monkey fists over the years, but I can't see how they would be used as a climbing hitch. The ones I've tied were used to make a ball in the rope for weight.
http://titanparacord.com/monkeys-fist/


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## Matt J Leppek (Mar 24, 2016)

BC WetCoast said:


> I don't understand. I've tied lots of monkey fists over the years, but I can't see how they would be used as a climbing hitch. The ones I've tied were used to make a ball in the rope for weight.
> http://titanparacord.com/monkeys-fist/


Haha Jeff was making a comment about how ineffective the blakes has become with newer eye to eye cord, and related it to a decorative knot.


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## BC WetCoast (Mar 24, 2016)

Guess I'm not quick enough to pick up the humour subtleties.


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 25, 2016)

BC WetCoast said:


> I don't understand. I've tied lots of monkey fists over the years, but I can't see how they would be used as a climbing hitch. The ones I've tied were used to make a ball in the rope for weight.
> http://titanparacord.com/monkeys-fist/



Hey BC, let me clarify, back in the late 70's and early 80's, we called a 'taut line hitch' a monkey fist, 
Jeff


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