# Where Did the Term 'Dutchman' Originate?



## Gypo Logger (Dec 18, 2010)

It must be a derogatory term or something about wooden shoes.
Anybody know for sure?
John


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## Rounder (Dec 18, 2010)

Yukonsawman said:


> It must be a derogatory term or something about wooden shoes.
> Anybody know for sure?
> John



I believe it was derogatory....the Dutch were regarded as the sloppiest of immigrants, i.e., mismatched face cuts left uncorrected are the work of a sloppy faller.

But not sure....just what I've been told from some of the old boys around here, hopefully someone a little more in the know can confirm or deny.

Hope yer healin' up - Sam


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## Gypo Logger (Dec 18, 2010)

mtsamloggit said:


> I believe it was derogatory....the Dutch were regarded as the sloppiest of immigrants, i.e., mismatched face cuts left uncorrected are the work of a sloppy faller.
> 
> But not sure....just what I've been told from some of the old boys around here, hopefully someone a little more in the know can confirm or deny.
> 
> Hope yer healin' up - Sam


 Thanks Sam, did the Dutchman wear wooden shoes to keep the woodpeckers from pecking at their head?
I think the Dutch won't take exception to this thread, as us Canadians have often times been called, 'Cheeseheads' Lol
John


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## trimmmed (Dec 18, 2010)

Yukonsawman said:


> It must be a derogatory term or something about wooden shoes.
> Anybody know for sure?
> John



For sure, nope can't say for sure. But a "dutchman" in carpentry speak, is a repair. Usually where the offending.......either broke or rotten..... piece is replaced with a patch of just the bad area. i.e. if the bottom of a door jamb is rotted you replace just a section of the jamb, not the whole jamb. Speaks to frugality in that regard. If you work for a landlord, you will dutchman the crap out of everything, lol. Frugality!


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## Gypo Logger (Dec 18, 2010)

trimmmed said:


> For sure, nope can't say for sure. But a "dutchman" in carpentry speak, is a repair. Usually where the offending.......either broke or rotten..... piece is replaced with a patch of just the bad area. i.e. if the bottom of a door jamb is rotted you replace just a section of the jamb, not the whole jamb. Speaks to frugality in that regard. If you work for a landlord, you will dutchman the crap out of everything, lol. Frugality!


 Dave, that makes sense, from now on, instead of saying, 'jury rig', I'll just say,'put a Dutchman in there.' Lol
John


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## Meadow Beaver (Dec 18, 2010)

Hey now John, I'm like 1/4 Dutch, I even have wooden clogs. :greenchainsaw:


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## bobt (Dec 19, 2010)

When I worked as a railroad section man, we used "dutchmen" for repairing broken rails similar to repairing woodwork with pieces as described above.

The "dutchmen" were short pieces of rail (about 4-6 inches) that we cut specially and carried in the hy-rail truck along with our tools and oxy-acetylene torch. We would go out inspecting the track regularly and when we would come across a broken rail end (it was common to find the ends of rails chipped or broken) we would remove the anglebars and cut out the broken section and replace with the dutchman and reapply the anglebars and bolts. 

This was a temporary repair until a new replacement rail could be hauled to the site. Dutchmen commonly were used in the winters while the track was filled with snow and ice. When the track thawed, we would have many of these temporary repairs to fix permanently with new rails.

Just a little railroad trivia for y'all.

Bob


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## Gypo Logger (Dec 19, 2010)

bobt said:


> When I worked as a railroad section man, we used "dutchmen" for repairing broken rails similar to repairing woodwork with pieces as described above.
> 
> The "dutchmen" were short pieces of rail (about 4-6 inches) that we cut specially and carried in the hy-rail truck along with our tools and oxy-acetylene torch. We would go out inspecting the track regularly and when we would come across a broken rail end (it was common to find the ends of rails chipped or broken) we would remove the anglebars and cut out the broken section and replace with the dutchman and reapply the anglebars and bolts.
> 
> ...



That's good trivia Bob,
I regret that I never worked on the section gang when I worked for the CNR.,even though it was viewed as the bottom of the heap by some.
I started off in the Express in Great Lakes District, then transfered to the West coast as laborer, then transfered to Jasper Alberta as a caboose cleaner and became a carmen shortly thereafter. In my 5 years on the rails I saw alot of country, then I found work in the woods and that was all she wrote.
John


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## ropensaddle (Dec 19, 2010)

Hmmm so barb wire holding up a tailpipe is actually Dutchman exhaust ehhhhh?


I would be a master Dutchman


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## mdavlee (Dec 19, 2010)

Dutchman is a term for a short little boiler tube when you repair a blowout with a 6-12" tube or when cutting out a section for a sample tube.


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## Meadow Beaver (Dec 19, 2010)

So in short, a dutchman is a quick fix to a :censored: up.


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## bobt (Dec 19, 2010)

Yukonsawman said:


> That's good trivia Bob,
> I regret that I never worked on the section gang when I worked for the CNR.,even though it was viewed as the bottom of the heap by some.
> I started off in the Express in Great Lakes District, then transfered to the West coast as laborer, then transfered to Jasper Alberta as a caboose cleaner and became a carmen shortly thereafter. In my 5 years on the rails I saw alot of country, then I found work in the woods and that was all she wrote.
> John




Hi John, You didn't miss much by not being a section hand. It is hard work for sure and everyone else on the Railroad makes more money than the section "monkeys" haha.

Now,,,,,I know for sure that working in the woods was just as bad or maybe worse, Haha!

There was a saying on the Railroad about section hands back then that certainly applied to woods workers as well;

"All it takes to do this job is a strong back, a weak mind, brute strength, and stupidity"!!!! Haha!

John, does that saying sound familiar?

Bob


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## RandyMac (Dec 19, 2010)

How about the "Chinese Cut"?


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## ropensaddle (Dec 19, 2010)

RandyMac said:


> How about the "Chinese Cut"?



I would be cuttin everything to get away yikes:jawdrop:


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## CUCV (Dec 19, 2010)

A set screw installed between a shaft and housing preventing rotation and pullout...


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## Gypo Logger (Dec 20, 2010)

bobt said:


> Hi John, You didn't miss much by not being a section hand. It is hard work for sure and everyone else on the Railroad makes more money than the section "monkeys" haha.
> 
> Now,,,,,I know for sure that working in the woods was just as bad or maybe worse, Haha!
> 
> ...


 Bob, even though I was always in envy of those,'section slaves', as I viewed them from my relative cushy job on the rails, I liked those hammers and spikes they drove and maybe have missed my calling.
Why is it that when we went to school, the teachers or parents didn't understand where we should really be? It really would have saved alot of BS had they just put us on the wood pile. Lol
John


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## bobt (Dec 20, 2010)

Yukonsawman said:


> Bob, even though I was always in envy of those,'section slaves', as I viewed them from my relative cushy job on the rails, I liked those hammers and spikes they drove and maybe have missed my calling.
> Why is it that when we went to school, the teachers or parents didn't understand where we should really be? It really would have saved alot of BS had they just put us on the wood pile. Lol
> John



Ha! Thats a good idea about the woodpile,,,,,,,,,,or maybe not. 

Envision this if you can. The school has a big pile of logs, and when a kid gets in trouble he has to work on the pile. I don't know if it is a good idea to give a kid who is a troublemaker an axe. I can see him taking out his frustrations on just about everything BUT the wood! Haha!

Seeing that you said that you liked those hammers that the section crews used to pound spikes, here is a little more "Gandydancer" section hand trivia. 

The hammers are called "spike mauls" and they usually weigh 10 pounds, but can be found in lighter weights down to 6 pounds if memory serves. I have a 10 pounder that I made into a splitting maul. I forged one side of the maul to a wedge shape, and it works great. I also have a six pounder that I found at an abandoned section house.

Spike mauls have a long head, unlike a regular sledge hammer, so that you can pound spikes over the top of the rail if necessary. If we needed to do a ton of spiking like when installing new rails or building track, we worked in pairs. I was a lefty swinger and most other guys were righties, so I could partner up with just about anybody. We both would set a spike and alternately drive them home into the same tie. If for instance, I finished my spike, I could swing at my partners spike over the rail. Then repeat ad nauseum till the job was done. If you and your partner get a good alternate rythm going it makes the job go a lot easier.

We often had summer help come to work, and at those times we loaded about half a dozen extra spike mauls into the truck. It takes a while before those new guys could even hit a spike much less do it efficiently. A new guy could break a spike maul handle in one swing!!! You have to learn to bend your back and keep the handle low to the ground. If not, snap goes the handle. I can still hear my foreman in his most frustrated voice; "Damnit kid, if you don't learn to swing that maul, all yer gonna have in your first check is a picture of a spike maul handle"! 

Bob


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## joesawer (Dec 22, 2010)

One set of my grandparents are dutch. 
I don't know about the sloppy or careless aspect because my grandfather his brother where very picky about doing things right. My dad is to an extreme.
But they have always said that stingy jew was not as tight as a careless dutchman. They never wasted anything or threw anything away. Even if it hurt them in the long run.
They are also very stubborn. I could just see them working in the woods and someone trying to get them to clean up a dutchman. If they did not think it needed to be cleaned up they would refuse and even do it on purpose to demonstrate that it did not matter.
I ran into that trying to get my dad to wrap his thumb. He refused to even do it occasionally by accident, after I said he should and tried to explain why he should. 
I could very well see a bull buck trying to get a dutch faller to clean up a stray kerf that in the dutchmans mind did not need to be cleaned up.
From that point on there is a good chance that every stump he made would have a "dutchman".


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## Gypo Logger (Jan 6, 2014)

Funnily enough, almost all my trees now have dutchmen, but they are only worth an average of 12$ on the landing. When in the east my average stem was worth 5 hundred and had no dutchmen. Must be a respect thing. BTW, its impossible to barberchair the spruce here. A dutchmen gaurantees you'll never push a tree over by hand.


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## imagineero (Jan 8, 2014)

maybe a reference to the flying dutchman?


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## Dayto (Jan 23, 2014)

Dutchman , swanson , birds beak , kitten kitty ..all typical logger lingo lol


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