# company bashing via equipment.....



## ez_tree_w.ny (Jan 24, 2012)

i just wanted to touch on the fact i have read a lot of guys stories about the local hack with barely running equipment.... All things aside they might be a hack that does shotty work. But on the other hand what if your bashing a local up an comer like me.. Starting a business in this economy is like juggling chainsaws not everyone could.. But there are a few of us out there that simply dont have the best equipment or for that matter the best saws... But still most of my work comes from referalls... I think if i was a hack that would not be the case.. All im saying is never judge a book by its cover... We all put our boots on the same way in the morning and even thou my operation may look a little rag tag i still use my tree knowledge to make a difference.. And at the end of the day that is what really matters knowledge is more powerful than equipment.


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## timberjak (Jan 24, 2012)

I am in your corner of thinking here but prepare to be judged, seems most forums attack people with views that are not as "normal" in looking to the public. not shiny and new your a hack they seem to say. 

I do not agree with the new shiny equip. hard to fix all the electrical etc. I can rebuild motors cheaper than some of the new computers and controls.

I am a veteran around my area for trees over 15 yrs. which is long compared to most services in area. I have a lot of equip. but none is new minus ropes and important climbing gear, slings etc. 

most would roll their eyes and nose about my 1976 c60 bucket truck. 80's skidsteer, 80's chipper and stump grinder. but they all run great and I can fix anything that comes along if it does. 

Oh by the way I own a resort too, so yep I am kinda a side job type, I just like to be in around or cutting trees. its been in my blood since 14. been chainsaw carving since then also. 

I get a lot of return business and no adds in the paper, I do have business cards 500 of em lasted for as long as I can remember. 

bottom line whoever does the best job wins, price is definately a motivator on both sides. but do a hack job and the name follows. 

I am ready for the smart all comments


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## ez_tree_w.ny (Jan 24, 2012)

besides i kinda like chaging customers minds ive gotton a few " well i was a little un sure about you when you got here. But from now on your gonna be the one i call over everyone else... You did a great job!"


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## arborpros (Jan 24, 2012)

*My two cents.*

A hack is someone that comes in and bids a $800 job at $150 and then leave stubs or cuts in to the branch collars all over the tree. Someone that low balls every bid they give and muddys up the bidding waters is a hack. Someone that tops trees is a hack. (Very rarely is it justified, and I mean VERY rarely). Just because you don't have nice shiny new trucks and equipment does not make you a hack. How you do the job and present yourself makes you a hack. Someone that has a chainsaw and a pickup truck and has no clue what propper pruning techniques are is a hack. Someone that has never picked up a book or gone to a website to expand their knowlege of new deseases, new pruning techniques, or the changing industry is a hack. Someone that puts on spikes to prune trees is a hack. Someone that does not know simple industry terms like co-dominant, included bark, crown reduction, ect is a hack. 

Hacks suck and they mess up the whole industry for everyone else. People that care for the longevity of life for the trees they prune by using propper pruning techniquesand educate their customers on why they did what they did are not hacks and I value people like that. Hacks suck. 

Now you've got me fuming............


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## tree md (Jan 24, 2012)

Snapped this pic this morning out on the road. In my opinion, guys who leave this in their wake are hacks:







Poor tree...


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## deevo (Jan 24, 2012)

tree md said:


> Snapped this pic this morning out on the road. In my opinion, guys who leave this in their wake are hacks:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Agreed


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## lone wolf (Jan 24, 2012)

deevo said:


> Agreed



That one should be ticketable for being an eyesore!


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## Bomber (Jan 24, 2012)

I agree with you EZ. I base my judgment on quality of work. If you prune the tree and it is scalped and looks like a lolly pop when your done your a hack. If your using 3 pole saw extensions, while hugging the trunk, to get out at the tips your a hack. I dont base judgment of the type of equipment you can afford, but if you have a bucket truck and or a chipper that is leaking oil and pissing hydro fluid onto the customers property then your a hack.


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## Blakesmaster (Jan 24, 2012)

There's a difference between, older, well maintained equipment, and bombing down the road in a rust bucket. Much of my equipment is older, but I keep it painted and looking decent. But to be honest, I don't keep my stuff looking nice to impress the competition, I do it to impress the clientele. 

In my opinion, a client ( or more importantly a potential client ) would rather see a truck like this






on their property, than one like this.






Not that my truck is all that and a bag of chips, but it looks a heck of a lot more professional than option 2.


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## tree md (Jan 24, 2012)

Your average client is not going to have any clue in the difference between bucket trucks. They would be happy just not to have ruts left in their yard by one... Or oil in the driveway.


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## Blakesmaster (Jan 24, 2012)

tree md said:


> Your average client is not going to have any clue in the difference between bucket trucks. They would be happy just not to have ruts left in their yard by one... Or oil in the driveway.



I know they aren't going to understand the difference in booms and trucks, the point I was making is that one looks old and beat up, while the other looks like a solid truck. Perhaps I used a poor example. I'll try again.

Would a potential client rather you show up in a truck like this for an estimate






or a truck like this?


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## tree md (Jan 24, 2012)

I'll say this and I'll be done with it:

A proven track record and a good name will take you much further than shiny new equipment ever will.

Case in point: There is a guy who is well known in my town. He had a big name around here and is known nationally, made some quick money and ran out and bought a bunch of shiny new equipment. He even had his own TV show at one time. His name is now #### and they have nearly ran him out of town for doing shoddy work and tearing up property. As I remember it, he used to roll up to the job in a Mercedes or an Audi, can't remember which.

Doing good quality work, keeping your word with people and developing a good reputation will take you a lot further than a bucket truck in this biz.


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## ez_tree_w.ny (Jan 24, 2012)

my truck is deffenatly a piece of crap.... Most of my money is in my climbing and rigging equipment when it comes to booms and other such items i rent.... It sucks but i at least don't encounter enviromental probloms from leackage do i wish i had more of course but at the end of the day i know im no hack because im so anal retentive about my work and any time i leave ruts i bring in topsoil and grass seed and fix. I even bring a few buckets of soil and grass starter for any divits i leave as an extra courtesy.... I aim to keep my company doing the best work possible and i judge my employees like i judge myself.... Proper pruning... No gaffs on prunes... No shotty work and on toping i do my best just to talk em into full removals or suggest they find someone else... I have found if you stick to some basic principals,keep an open mind to learning and understand that the more you know the easier it is to make a difference, it will be easier to look back at the tuff times and know you didnt comprimise your tree morals....


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## mckeetree (Jan 24, 2012)

I have thoughts about some of this but I'll keep them to myself. I will say this...if I didn't add in new stuff on a yearly basis I couldn't pay my taxes. My CPA looks at things around Nov. and advises me. I ask him once what about all these guys running that old depreciated out equipment that claim they are making good money. His reply was "Well, hmmm, something doesn't add up there does it."


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## mattfr12 (Jan 24, 2012)

mckeetree said:


> I have thoughts about some of this but I'll keep them to myself. I will say this...if I didn't add in new stuff on a yearly basis I couldn't pay my taxes. My CPA looks at things around Nov. and advises me. I ask him once what about all these guys running that old depreciated out equipment that claim they are making good money. His reply was "Well, hmmm, something doesn't add up there does it."



ya thats we buy some stuff every year might as well turn it into something you can use than pay it in taxes.


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## mckeetree (Jan 24, 2012)

mattfr12 said:


> ya thats we buy some stuff every year might as well turn it into something you can use than pay it in taxes.



Exactly. It's equipment or taxes. That seems like a no brainer to me. Like my CPA said...some things just don't add up.


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## tree md (Jan 24, 2012)

LOL, starting to sound like Newt Gingrich up in here...

Everyone must render unto Caesar. No escaping it.


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## Slvrmple72 (Jan 24, 2012)

About the time you start buying nice brand new large equipment is also about the time your body is starting to go to chit. One of life's funny little ironies. :frown:


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## mckeetree (Jan 24, 2012)

tree md said:


> LOL, starting to sound like Newt Gingrich up in here...
> 
> Everyone must render unto Caesar. No escaping it.



Nope, there is no escaping it.


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## mattfr12 (Jan 24, 2012)

mckeetree said:


> Nope, there is no escaping it.



ya i don't beat paying them by a long shot but you don't have to give it all away.


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## mattfr12 (Jan 24, 2012)

Ill have to say i have nothing against someone that can take an ancient machine and make it work like a hoss and only have a grand in it more power to you and good job. but i do get a lot of work because of appearance. and the fact that we also offer top dollar work at a decent price. but three of my trucks have less than 10k miles on them and are 1-2 years old everything i have at the moment i bought from the dealer new. and i do get a lot of work and compliments because of it.

people figure if he can buy a million in trucks he has to know something and it is kinda right because if someone handed you or you already had millions i wouldn't be starting a tree business i would maybe rec climb and live on a beach.

this more shows in the pristine communities. if one of my trucks got scratched up real bad or a big ding in it it would be taken out quickly. just the appearance i go for.

not the best or right thing and i wouldn't make fun of anyones equipment on here and never have. its just retarded everyone has to start someone i had a 1985 dump truck at one time also.



Blakesmaster said:


> I know they aren't going to understand the difference in booms and trucks, the point I was making is that one looks old and beat up, while the other looks like a solid truck. Perhaps I used a poor example. I'll try again.
> 
> Would a potential client rather you show up in a truck like this for an estimate
> 
> ...


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## tree md (Jan 24, 2012)

Well, I think it goes without saying you are not going to be rolling up into the gated communities with "old blue" LOL!


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## mattfr12 (Jan 24, 2012)

tree md said:


> Well, I think it goes without saying you are not going to be rolling up into the gated communities with "old blue" LOL!



ya and its not the companies fault theirs just arrogant people in the world. guy around here is worth close to 20 million and he drives a 2500.00 saturn buys a new one every 2-3 years always a saturn appearances can be deceiving.

i just got done working for a guy who made sure his ferrari was in the driveway when i showed up for the bid and its been two months and I'm still not paid I'm about to put that POS on cinder blocks.

put the grapple on the k-boom and grab it by the roof and put it up in the back of the truck in till he decides to pay.


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## Blakesmaster (Jan 24, 2012)

tree md said:


> Well, I think it goes without saying you are not going to be rolling up into the gated communities with "old blue" LOL!



Bah! Just trow a little air in that front tire and rattle can the rust spots and you're good to go!


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## tree md (Jan 24, 2012)

Why is it always the ones that appear to have money that are so slow to pay???


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## mattfr12 (Jan 24, 2012)

tree md said:


> Why is it always the ones that appear to have money that are so slow to pay???



its 550.00 dollars and that makes me super mad. told me some deal that the check will be coming from an investment firm. i planted a maple tree and used the crane to lift it over his landscape that was a crazy maze that a cat would have a hard time getting through without disturbing it and he was their while we did this. called me up 2 days later to tell me that he didn't like how we flattened the grass where the tree sat. not one drop of dirt it was in a WM bagster.

once i get paid by thies kinds of people i do it every time and tell them I'm just not interested in doing business with them and they should contact someone else next time.


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## mattfr12 (Jan 24, 2012)

picture of how we lifted the tree over his landscape didn't even drag or carry it. i had 2-4's in the bottom of the bag to keep it from closing in and smashing the tree.


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## mattfr12 (Jan 24, 2012)

Blakesmaster said:


> Bah! Just trow a little air in that front tire and rattle can the rust spots and you're good to go!



ya i think you might need a few cans of fix a flat.


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## tree md (Jan 24, 2012)

People are pretty down to earth here in OK. You got some snooty people in the gated communities but it's not like Boston or the like. They are used to the good ole' cowboy way here. 

I do some work in gated communities but I'd say the bulk of my work is for the upper middle class in town and a lot of rural clients with nice large properties. I also have a couple of commercial properties that I work for on a regular basis. Believe me, I would much rather work for the middle class or rural rancher than work in the gated communities any day. Not to say that everyone that lives in the gated communities are on a high horse or anything, some are, some are just plain old down to earth folks. I will say I have gotten more grief from clients and neighbors in the gated communities than the bulk of the rest of my clientele.


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## mattfr12 (Jan 24, 2012)

tree md said:


> People are pretty down to earth here in OK. You got some snooty people in the gated communities but it's not like Boston or the like. They are used to the good ole' cowboy way here.
> 
> I do some work in gated communities but I'd say the bulk of my work is for the upper middle class in town and a lot of rural clients with nice large properties. I also have a couple of commercial properties that I work for on a regular basis. Believe me, I would much rather work for the middle class or rural rancher than work in the gated communities any day. Not to say that everyone that lives in the gated communities are on a high horse or anything, some are, some are just plain old down to earth folks. I will say I have gotten more grief from clients and neighbors in the gated communities than the bulk of the rest of my clientele.



I've only ran across a few and ill be pushing 6 years on my own. but the middle class people are the kind that will help you cut it up and rather complaining about sawdust in their grass. way easier to work for thies kinds of people i have no problem taken extra limbs off or doing extra work for without raising the price.


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## dts99 (Jan 24, 2012)

i started working for myself about 3 years ago, with my dads dodge dakota and my 16' trailer, ive had done tree work for someone else for 12 or so years, a guy i dont know personaly but a few friends know started at the same time, he has a older dodge pickup not shaby looking and a set of those nuts hanging from the trailer hitch, i was able to save and buy a 89 one ton and a 88 chipper, ran that for a year, and now have a 2011 truck and a 06 chipper, that guy and his nuts are still driven around town, i personally think its the nuts


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## mattfr12 (Jan 24, 2012)

dts99 said:


> i started working for myself about 3 years ago, with my dads dodge dakota and my 16' trailer, ive had done tree work for someone else for 12 or so years, a guy i dont know personaly but a few friends know started at the same time, he has a older dodge pickup not shaby looking and a set of those nuts hanging from the trailer hitch, i was able to save and buy a 89 one ton and a 88 chipper, ran that for a year, and now have a 2011 truck and a 06 chipper, that guy and his nuts are still driven around town, i personally think its the nuts



i see them truck nuts all the time sooooo lame


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## newsawtooth (Jan 24, 2012)

mattfr12 said:


> i see them truck nuts all the time sooooo lame




While living in Utah where truck nuts are ubiquitous, I started to castrate them at every opportunity. C'mon people! Spay or neuter your trucks! Let's make sure every truck has a forever home by reducing the number of unwanted vehicles.


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## treemandan (Jan 24, 2012)

Blakesmaster said:


> I know they aren't going to understand the difference in booms and trucks, the point I was making is that one looks old and beat up, while the other looks like a solid truck. Perhaps I used a poor example. I'll try again.
> 
> Would a potential client rather you show up in a truck like this for an estimate
> 
> ...



I dunno but I would like to have that chick sit on my face. But I have to admit old bucket trucks gimme the heeby jebbies and all that old ####box Chevy needs is a hood scoop and a set of truck nuts.


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## treemandan (Jan 24, 2012)

newsawtooth said:


> While living in Utah where truck nuts are ubiquitous, I started to castrate them at every opportunity. C'mon people! Spay or neuter your trucks! Let's make sure every truck has a forever home by reducing the number of unwanted vehicles.



Can we castrate the driver's too?

I bought my F150 off a used lot, it had a hood scoop and fresh inspection badges. I once tried to take the scoop off but the studs spun. I didn't want to get into it and I am a little superstious about taking it off but I hate to think what people are thinking about me. Sometimes I come right out and tell people not to judge me by the hood scoop. When I am on the inside driving it I kinda like it but when i look at it from the outside I gotta laugh.


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## ROPECLIMBER (Jan 24, 2012)

New to the site, some great post, as you can see my stuff is all 12 years old or older,my 034 is close to 25yrs old, had a 028 super that was new in 1988 and a ground helper ran it in the rocks with a air leak and froze the piston, the new saws carbs dont hold up to the alki gas, the low sulfer diesel is hard on the liftpumps, and injector pumps, the common rail diesels blow injector seals out of the head, but down here in Texas,we still live on beans,the same job up north would be 3 times as high, hell some times 10 times, back in the late 80's I made more with a 3/4 ton and a brush trailer than I do now, with a city license and a ISA certification, I would love to have the 100,000 laying around to have nicer things like a late model chipper, and chip truck, and a 33 hp carlton 4012 Kubota diesel,with the sandvik wheel, the 440 with a 24-32" bar, the $3300 GCRS, etc etc, 
Paul


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## mr. holden wood (Jan 24, 2012)

treemandan said:


> I dunno but I would like to have that chick sit on my face. But I have to admit old bucket trucks gimme the heeby jebbies and all that old ####box Chevy needs is a hood scoop and a set of truck nuts.


 
Really,why you waste your time doing tree work is beyond me. Just spit out half my beer reading this post. A post like this makes suffering through those nut zits you talk about and doing the dishes posts worth it.


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## tree md (Jan 24, 2012)

Kind of funny, I have been watching Gerry B's Videos lately and he works with 1 ground hand, an old Mobark chipper and an older model pickup to chip in in the vids I have been watching. :hmm3grin2orange:


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## ROPECLIMBER (Jan 24, 2012)

Once I calmed down, trying to say that after 27 years poor boying it, I took a job with a nice tree company and wished I had not hurdled over $100's trying to sift dimes from slugs all these years.
The appearance does sell the jobs worth having, and it is possible to maintain older equipment
Sorry for the late night rant,on climate,economy,recession, equipment,and restoring hacked trees.


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## jefflovstrom (Jan 24, 2012)

treemandan said:


> I dunno but I would like to have that chick sit on my face. But I have to admit old bucket trucks gimme the heeby jebbies and all that old ####box Chevy needs is a hood scoop and a set of truck nuts.



See, there ya go Dan, you need to tell us when you bang your wife and then spill it into other guy's pic's. 
Are you a tree guy, wannabe, or just a 'perv'?
Jeff
Maybe you should should get some class or hang with the Goob's!
Jeff


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## ROPECLIMBER (Jan 25, 2012)

Really,
Was post worried about bashing from clientel, or these jokers on here?
Old or new maintain it, your mind is a tool too,


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## mattfr12 (Jan 25, 2012)

ROPECLIMBER said:


> Now that I have gone back and edited my post calmer, How do I get all the copies edited,



you don't its in permanent marker.


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## ROPECLIMBER (Jan 25, 2012)

Oh well,


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## imagineero (Jan 25, 2012)

I tend to judge guys (even guys I sub contract for) at least a little on their gear. Not so much how new or expensive it is, but how they look after it. I don't mind how old your saws are, but do they all run and have sharp chains and straight bars? It's nothing to do with the look of the gear but on basic attention to your stuff. It doesn't cost much to slap a coat of paint on your old rusted chipper, but even if you don't at least make sure the knives are sharp and the anvil properly adjusted. No water in the tank, and that it idles well and revs out to where it ought to. 

I make sure all my gear is in good running order. I have some new gear and some old stuff, my grinder is new, my truck is old. My saws are half and half. I look after my ropes and retire them before they get old. Same for rigging.

It's just like boots. Old boots can be worth more to a person than new ones. They're worn in, comfortable and have memories. Dirty dry cracked boots with the laces all cut up and tied together covered in dog crap are never a good thing in anybodies view though. 

Shaun


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## limbwalker54 (Jan 25, 2012)

Well.....my arsenal is not NEW.....

I run a 1972 International Loadstar 1700, 345 gas V-8, doesn't use a drop of oil and leaks nothing. Has a 5 ton Cascade knuckleboom with MANUAL extensions.....hauls some serious wood......5+2 with manual steering keeps you buff while you drive.

It currently does not look great with its faded paint but when it goes into my shop for its Winter Cleanup/painting we will have it looking beautiful with Mojave Tan cab, forest green bed and CAT yellow boom. At the same time she's gettin her mechanical tune up for the upcoming season.

I run a 1978 Ford F-350 dump with chip box that pulls my 1986 Whisper. This setup is great for pruning in hard to get to areas. I put a new cab on it a few years back and it will be getting a fresh coat of paint soon.

I have a 1990 GMC Topkick with a 366, 5 speed, 14' Southco chip box, and it runs like a top, no oil leaks.....and it holds about 6000 bucks worth of climbing gear and ropes along with about the same in saws with the boxes she has........

Lastly our big chipper is a 2000 Woodsman 2118, 18" capacity chipper with a JD 185 diesel, what a beautiful machine.


I make just as much money for myself running this equipment as the guys who have tons of payments and way newer stuff. I enjoy the classic trucks in my arsenal because I can fix everything myself and the cost of doing so is not very expensive, and generally they are reliable, proven vehicles that have more than paid for themselves. Part of my business plan is to have them all with the new color scheme I picked out and cleaned up. If that Chevy with the flat tire was restored, painted and lettered, it would look VERY sharp pulling up for an estimate.......

I will post pics of the stuff after the nice new paint is on everything.

OH, and I should hopefully have my 1993 F-800 with Altec LRIII (tested last month) to add to all of this soon.......trying to get a bucket before the Winter is out.

People actually comment positively on the older stuff I run because it is unusual to see a 72 International with a huge ass load of wood rolling down the highway at 65 mph around here. I feel that once everything is a little cleaner it will make my business that much more unique.

Sorry for the ramble.


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## Bigus Termitius (Jan 25, 2012)

Never despise meager beginnings.


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## mckeetree (Jan 25, 2012)

Some of these post on this thread are quaint little stories but somehow I just don't think some guys on here even know what I am talking about when I say "depreciation schedule" or "expense out". Of course, financially, I have read many post in this forum the last few years that don't make any sense whatsoever.


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## Bigus Termitius (Jan 25, 2012)

mckeetree said:


> Some of these post on this thread are quaint little stories but somehow I just don't think some guys on here even know what I am talking about when I say "depreciation schedule" or "expense out". Of course, financially, I have read many post in this forum the last few years that don't make any sense whatsoever.



Some of us are learning, some just can't/don't think that far into it. It's alot to manage, especially for some, but it's necessary for any hope of progress. I'm gaining some real traction now, and with it comes the greater willingness to take a leap of faith equipment-wise and get into the loop. I want to grow accordingly, there is a fine line between jumping too far and not far enough.


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## tree md (Jan 25, 2012)

Some are going to try to sell on the merits of their equipment, some are going to sell their service. Think of the retired plumber, out of work construction worker, fill in the blank _____ who is trying to by a crane or bucket truck. New equipment is always nice and I don't think anyone would be truthful if they were to say they wouldn't like to have it. A savvy service buys when times are good and sheds unneeded or costly equipment (that is costing you too much to operate or let sit) when times are lean. The idea is to be as profitable as you can be.

It's not rocket science. 

But that's the business end of it and would be better discussed in the business forum. The topic here is bashing others about their equipment. 

Personally, I make my money climbing. I have top notch climbing gear and saws. That's what makes me the most money. I have a stumper and other equipment but that is more ancillary service for me. Nice to be able to do it but I make a heck of a lot more money when I am lean and climbing (storm damage).


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## mckeetree (Jan 25, 2012)

tree md said:


> Some are going to try to sell on the merits of their equipment, some are going to sell their service.



You are right, this may belong more in the business section. I don't guess I've ever tried to sell a job based on equipment. All I was pointing out is if a guy is making any money to amount to anything at all being self employed, and, provided you use some sort of equipment in your business you are well served to add in some new stuff from time to time. That doesn't mean you have to keep everything brand new all the time. Not at all. We certainly don't do that. But you can buy enough along to manage your situation. I've seen guys post in these forums that claim they are kicking ass and proudly claim they are running some trucks that are 40 years old and haven't bought ANYTHING large equipment wise new in 12 or 13 years of any kind. Hey, if you can make that work, more power to you. I just never have found the secret to make it work for me.


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## tree md (Jan 25, 2012)

Well, the plan for me is usually always to up size and buy equipment. And you're right, it makes a hell of a lot more sense than giving it to uncle Sam. The market has been in the toilet here since 09. It got to the point where it was cheaper for us to drag a trailer to town for the small jobs we were getting instead of hauling the chipper and the dump. I don't see how some survived. Your buddy that you came down here to visit seems to have come through it very well. He seems to be a really nice guy and does quality work from what I gather. He has a hauling company as well.

The plan this year is to buy more equipment for me. Not necessarily new but decent.


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## beastmaster (Jan 25, 2012)

When the economy tanked a few years ago in my area, and I found my self unemployed, and broke, I put an ad in craigslist offering my services to homeowners. I would show up in my toyota car with a small latter and pole pruners and polesaw on top and my saws in the back trunk. My ad said, "I am not a business, I have no employees or insurance, I don't even own a truck, but if you want to save money and do your own clean up give me a call. I am ISA certified".
That ad saved my home and put my daughter throu 1st year of college. I am sure no one at that time could match my work or prices. People didn't judge me they just want good work and save money. 
I don't do that no more. I work for several different company's now and get paid very well and am in demand. But I was called a hack by a lot of people on this board.
I see hack work all around, but its not old or used equipment that make a hack but the quality of the work. I see lots of nice boom and chipper trucks that say right on the side they top, and none of their employees speak English. The best tree man I ever meant pulled a 14ft trailer with an old truck. The man loved trees and would spend hour or days in a tree with loppers , and a hand saw lacing them out, tell they were works of art. 
It easy for the haves to past judgment on the have nots. Quality of work is what counts in the end. IMHO


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## TreeAce (Jan 25, 2012)

I know I sure raised an eyebrow or three at first. My first truck was a sight. F350 with a plywood chip box and ,well, the same chipper I have now. I was alittle embaressed at times but no one ever ran me off although I think a couple thought about it. Until they watched us work! I had a couple HO say "well ya gotta start somewhere!" I also heard things like "I gotta admit I wasnt to sure at first but hey, you guys really know what your doing!". I just let proper trimmimg, lack of damage, skilled rigging, a reasonably clean cut crew, and a kick ass clean up job do the talking. My equipment still isnt fancy now but it has sure improved and will continue to I hope. It looks like I will need to spend some money myself by next tax year. Not sure what it will be yet, maybe a bucket.


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## mattfr12 (Jan 25, 2012)

tree md said:


> Some are going to try to sell on the merits of their equipment, some are going to sell their service. Think of the retired plumber, out of work construction worker, fill in the blank _____ who is trying to by a crane or bucket truck. New equipment is always nice and I don't think anyone would be truthful if they were to say they wouldn't like to have it. A savvy service buys when times are good and sheds unneeded or costly equipment (that is costing you too much to operate or let sit) when times are lean. The idea is to be as profitable as you can be.
> 
> It's not rocket science.
> 
> ...



if someone never has dont tree work and is looking into buying a new crane or bucket truck the odds are probably around 5% of you making it. 

i had to wait intill my income was capable of sustaining things like this. i really hope no one just says one day time to start a tree service lets go to the bank.

you are gonna be working for a long time to pay it back even after they repo it.


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## arborpros (Jan 25, 2012)

Just for the record, I started with a 2005 Ford Explorer Sport Trac and a 16' trailer. You ever pulled a load of logs on a 16' trailer with a Sport Trac? This is why I upgraded as soon as I could afford and I continue to do so. I'll never forget where I started and I do not take for granted how far I have come. You have to start somewhere. I now use that Sport Trac to give bids. 92000 miles and drives and looks close to new.

I think a lot of this thread has turned in to your equipment when really half of it is about how you prune the trees that makes you a hack. I know what the title is but if you trim trees unprofessionaly you are a hack and if you show up to a job in crappy equipment and trim tree unprofessionally it makes you an even bigger hack.


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## tree md (Jan 25, 2012)

TreeAce said:


> I know I sure raised an eyebrow or three at first. My first truck was a sight. F350 with a plywood chip box and ,well, the same chipper I have now. I was alittle embaressed at times but no one ever ran me off although I think a couple thought about it. Until they watched us work! I had a couple HO say "well ya gotta start somewhere!" I also heard things like "I gotta admit I wasnt to sure at first but hey, you guys really know what your doing!". I just let proper trimmimg, lack of damage, skilled rigging, a reasonably clean cut crew, and a kick ass clean up job do the talking. My equipment still isnt fancy now but it has sure improved and will continue to I hope. It looks like I will need to spend some money myself by next tax year. Not sure what it will be yet, maybe a bucket.



My next dump will be a one ton. The two ton just costs too much money to run with fuel prices they way they are now.


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## tree md (Jan 25, 2012)

Another thing I noticed when the bottom fell out was a lot of guys who had financed large equipment were working dirt cheap just to make a payment on it. It helped to drive market price down. It would have been better for everyone if they had dumped their #### and cut their losses.


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## Pelorus (Jan 25, 2012)

Interesting thread. Not many truck nuts up this way.
Posting a link that's about a fellow I got to know pretty well and bought many saws from. 
Sold saws out of his run down house. Probably many thousands of them.
Didn't use a calculator or a computer; everything was added up by hand. 

CottageCountryNow Article: Goodbye to the 'Chainsaw Man'

Being fair & honest brought him more business (with no advertising) than one could have ever imagined.


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## deevo (Jan 25, 2012)

Pelorus said:


> Interesting thread. Not many truck nuts up this way.
> Posting a link that's about a fellow I got to know pretty well and bought many saws from.
> Sold saws out of his run down house. Probably many thousands of them.
> Didn't use a calculator or a computer; everything was added up by hand.
> ...


That's too bad about Gib, yep it's quite the place, don't think there is a place like his on the planet! RIP Is his brother still around to run the place? I know he was getting up there.


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## beastmaster (Jan 25, 2012)

Pelorus said:


> Interesting thread. Not many truck nuts up this way.
> Posting a link that's about a fellow I got to know pretty well and bought many saws from.
> Sold saws out of his run down house. Probably many thousands of them.
> Didn't use a calculator or a computer; everything was added up by hand.
> ...



It would of been a privileged and an honor to have done business with "the chainsaw man."

"Sometimes a gold nugget is covered in mud"
"If you have a bucket of s_ _t and paint the bucket, polish it up real nice. you just have a pretty bucket of s_ _t" Quotes my Dad use to tell me.


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## imagineero (Jan 25, 2012)

tree md said:


> Another thing I noticed when the bottom fell out was a lot of guys who had financed large equipment were working dirt cheap just to make a payment on it. It helped to drive market price down. It would have been better for everyone if they had dumped their #### and cut their losses.



Amen to that!

I always get tempted to buy bigger and better gear like most folks do, but I hold myself back and continue sub contracting out those services which I need (big chipper and truck, crane, bucket etc). Sometimes it would be nice to have that gear, and I think about how if I did own it I could either bid a little lower and win more work or keep the same price and pocket a bit more money. 

The nice thing about owning all my gear outright is that I don't have any bills. That means I don't have to drop my prices in quiet times and can afford to take it easy a little. I only really need 4 days work a month to cover all my living costs. Even in tight times it's not hard to manage that. You do get tax breaks with new gear, but you've got to have income to offset that against.

I learned a good lesson working for a top 20 engineering company in aus. Big company with thousands of employees, lots of contracts, and divisions covering engineering, mining, civil electrical etc. The small office I was working in had 150 employees and was in a mining town. It wasn't until I'd been working there for a year that I realised they didn't own a single asset. Every bit of gear they had - welders, vehicles, cranes, the offices, computers, the whole lot was hired on day rates with no future contracts. Even the staff were all employed through labour hire companies except for the core management team. Running the projects I was always headbutting a brickwall looking at our profit and loss statement. On some jobs, we'd hire a welder for example, have it for a month, pay more in hire fees than what it cost to buy a new one, then we'd damage it and have to replace it anyway. Made no sense at all, but you couldn't ever get approval for capital expenditure to buy anything

Couple years into the job, it started to make more sense to me. Hire costs can be written off immediately on each job tax wise, no need to depreciate them and carry the gear in the hope of a defferred tax asset you may never get a chance to realise. We also didn't need to maintain, repair, store or keep track of the gear. Essentially you outsource that whole liability. 

When the GFC hit, it really made some sense. We were able to scale the entire company down to about 20 people in only 2 weeks. Returned all the gear, and reduced our outgoings to a very small number. Mines went bankrupt, and there was no work to be had. The company pulled through, and when the industry picked back up they ramped up again. Mining is always going to be a boom/bust industry. 

Tree work is pretty unpredictable too. Dependant on the economy, and the weather. There's lots of strategies for dealing with the cycles - diversifying, getting lower paid long term contracts, putting money aside, or just not getting bills. To each his own ;-)

Shaun


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## mattfr12 (Jan 25, 2012)

imagineero said:


> Amen to that!
> 
> I always get tempted to buy bigger and better gear like most folks do, but I hold myself back and continue sub contracting out those services which I need (big chipper and truck, crane, bucket etc). Sometimes it would be nice to have that gear, and I think about how if I did own it I could either bid a little lower and win more work or keep the same price and pocket a bit more money.
> 
> ...



people that have to drop prices to keep their stuff had a poor business plan your bank account or war bank that i call it is funds set aside for hard times. these funds don't exist until you are on the verge of going under. you should have enough on hand before you make bigger purchases to be able to wait out a hard time six months at least what if you broke your back or arm? and can't work if i got an aflack quote i could pay the payment on a crane a month for what it would cost to get the funds i need to stay afloat. buying a truck with 100k with 20 grand in the bank is grounds for disaster.

you need half the face value or better to have a solid plan if your upside down that far to much is at stake.

so lets say you need a 60k if you don't have 30k the risk is medium to high if something happens. thats how i approach every purchase.

I'm selling off my skid steers because of the k-boom addition we just don't use them anymore one hasn't left the garage since it arrived. their not making money so its time to go.


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## imagineero (Jan 25, 2012)

mattfr12 said:


> people that have to drop prices to keep their stuff had a poor business plan your bank account or war bank that i call it is funds set aside for hard times. these funds don't exist until you are on the verge of going under. you should have enough on hand before you make bigger purchases to be able to wait out a hard time six months at least what if you broke your back or arm? and can't work if i got an aflack quote i could pay the payment on a crane a month for what it would cost to get the funds i need to stay afloat. buying a truck with 100k with 20 grand in the bank is grounds for disaster.
> 
> you need half the face value or better to have a solid plan if your upside down that far to much is at stake.
> 
> ...



That's the way the working man thinks, but its not the way that big business operates. A typical business plan involves raising capital to start/run a business, in the hope of being able to pay back the loan in future. You outsource the risk. Big business is run entirely on credit, If they have capital they invest it rather than spend it on gear. Why risk losing your own money?

You can't make a business plan of any sort of reliability in an industry with no contracts. Essentially you are selling your services at the market on a daily basis, for whatever the market will bear with no guarantee of any return. Putting aside enough cash to run your business at a loss for 6 months is the kind of business plan that would see you fail business school. Better to invest that money in something that makes a profit, close your business down, and go work for someone else. Or just stay home and watch TV, you'd still come out way ahead.

Shaun


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## mattfr12 (Jan 25, 2012)

when you purchase something make a chart. my accountant does this for me and it can really open up your eyes from an idea you thought was good to nah maybe ill wait.

lets say you buy a new bucket and its 100k thats 15k per year that is going out right off the top

look at your assets that you have ready to wait out a hard time and figure out how long you can make it before your effed and get repos

look at how much your monthly expenses will go up, payment , insurance, plates, maitnence. a lot of people don't factor in maitnence let me tell you i just put 6 tires on a c8500 it wasn't cheap you better have what it cost for a couple 880's ready.

look at how much more you will have to bring in to have the same profit margin

this will help you decide if your making a smart business move or i just gotta have it move.


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## sgreanbeans (Jan 26, 2012)

All my equipment is used, old and tired. Having new does not mean pro. Like already said, the proof is in the work, period. I know of several company's better equipped than me, but they are total hacks, what makes them hakes, the work. That being said, pulling up to a job with a truck or a van that is filled with garbage, 4 different tires but new curb feelers.........
When I inherited the tree biznass from my in-laws, I had ALL the toys, but only knew about felling in the woods, understanding what a hack was , from the Davey dudes that originally taught me, I knew that I needed to seek a Jedi, as the last thing I wanted to be, was a hack. I had everything but the knowledge, the knowledge was what was most important. When I found the Jedi, he only had a f-350 chipper truck and a 9" Morbark. No fleet of trucks, no employees. Just him and his little setup. Yet he was a BCMA and a legend in my neck of the woods. Took a lot of convincing to get him to train me, awful skeptical of this kid who has all the stuff, but knows nothing. 
Its not the year of equipment that counts, its how you maintain it. I have a 78 F-700, that I am confident that I could jump in and drive to cali in. I never look at a guy who has little and call him hack, but you post pics of dirty, beat up P.O.S's. It gives a insight into how you run things, if you don't care about the appearance or maintenance of your stuff, then chances are you don't care what you are doing when in a tree.


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## sgreanbeans (Jan 26, 2012)

Need to add this. You may also have brand new equipment that is all nice and shiny, but has no biznass on a tree job. Guys get beat on for this, so be it. I wouldn't post in a pic of a brand new chipper in a painters forum. Right equip for the job also speaks volumes.
" Look at my brand new concrete mixer, gonna use it so I can mix my own, ya know for the cavity's"


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## tree MDS (Jan 26, 2012)

I have been on both sides of the equipment deal. I have some bigger equipment now, but there were years when it was just the one ton and old 200+ bandit. We also have an old two wheel drive one ton dump with a liftgate that we used to use for wood. I can remember having my chipper referred to as a "little dog". Man that pissed me off!

I think it's just all part of the game... now I make fun of the punk kid that bought my old chipper off me! Lol, deal with it... I look at it as incentive to improve your game!


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## mic687 (Jan 26, 2012)

tree md said:


> I'll say this and I'll be done with it:
> 
> A proven track record and a good name will take you much further than shiny new equipment ever will.
> 
> ...



It was a Mercedes and you forgot the blue tooth in each ear and that he was protecting your family from the most dangerous vegetation on earth, trees now let's go cut some. Same guy?
I personally do not have alot of equipment but all I have runs good and looks pretty good. I too believe that quality of work speaks volumes and I have yet to advertise and still get as much work as I want to do.Referrals as well as folks seeing a quality job and top notch clean up is the best advertising you can get.


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## beastmaster (Jan 26, 2012)

There are two company's I work for that are on the other side of the spectrum from one another. One the largest of the two has several chipper trucks 4 drum chippers and an older front loader and med. size cat. All their equipment is old but perfectly maintained.(they have a stump grinder that belongs in a museum) The owner is a mean crusty old tree guy who gets results and demands his crew does too. A real A Hole, but with integrity. Old school all the way.
The other guy is a real slickster, has all the toys with all the bells and Whistles. All his trucks are new and custom painted, and he's the best salesman I have ever seen. He has never climbed a tree, but is very knowledgeable about trees. His whole crew acts like primadona's, but do exceptional work also.
Two excellent company's with different ideas and business plans and personalitys, both doing well. The common ground is quality work, and good reputation. Both have been around for a long time.
Hack's, regardless of the quality or lack of, of their equipment, come and go(Yes sadly there are exceptions)as water seeks its own level. This process of natural selection would work better if the public wasn't so ignorant. 
But when I dream, I always have a new shiny chipper truck, the best boom and a bc1800 chipper.


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## Slvrmple72 (Jan 26, 2012)

Use a nice big Bandit 1890xp at work. I have a little Chuck and Duck with Ford inline 6 desperately needing fresh paint. Keep thinking its time to kick it on down the line to the next fella.... better paint it soon. A nice used Bandit 150xp would be great, a 250xp with a winch would have me delirious! LOL!


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## mattfr12 (Jan 26, 2012)

Slvrmple72 said:


> Use a nice big Bandit 1890xp at work. I have a little Chuck and Duck with Ford inline 6 desperately needing fresh paint. Keep thinking its time to kick it on down the line to the next fella.... better paint it soon. A nice used Bandit 150xp would be great, a 250xp with a winch would have me delirious! LOL!



got one for sale with 140hp john deere winch and only 700 hours 2007 :msp_wink:

we use a morbark 2400xl the most anymore with 200 hp cummins


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## mattfr12 (Jan 26, 2012)

beastmaster said:


> There are two company's I work for that are on the other side of the spectrum from one another. One the largest of the two has several chipper trucks 4 drum chippers and an older front loader and med. size cat. All their equipment is old but perfectly maintained.(they have a stump grinder that belongs in a museum) The owner is a mean crusty old tree guy who gets results and demands his crew does too. A real A Hole, but with integrity. Old school all the way.
> The other guy is a real slickster, has all the toys with all the bells and Whistles. All his trucks are new and custom painted, and he's the best salesman I have ever seen. He has never climbed a tree, but is very knowledgeable about trees. His whole crew acts like primadona's, but do exceptional work also.
> Two excellent company's with different ideas and business plans and personalitys, both doing well. The common ground is quality work, and good reputation. Both have been around for a long time.
> Hack's, regardless of the quality or lack of, of their equipment, come and go(Yes sadly there are exceptions)as water seeks its own level. This process of natural selection would work better if the public wasn't so ignorant.
> But when I dream, I always have a new shiny chipper truck, the best boom and a bc1800 chipper.



doesn't have to be a dream just gotta figure out what you have to do to achieve these goals and with hard work and patience it will happen. not maybe it can be done.


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## Pelorus (Jan 26, 2012)

deevo said:


> That's too bad about Gib, yep it's quite the place, don't think there is a place like his on the planet! RIP Is his brother still around to run the place? I know he was getting up there.



Have heard that Frank is not selling any equipment. Apparently a lot of the stuff went to the landfill just before Gib died; they were not going to release him from the hospital unless they could get a stretcher into the house. Bought a Solo 675 off of Gib a couple of in early Sept before he died. Was pretty sad - to even get through the garage you were stepping on chainsaw bars (new bars) that had fallen down of the shelves and never got picked up.


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## mattfr12 (Jan 26, 2012)

beastmaster said:


> There are two company's I work for that are on the other side of the spectrum from one another. One the largest of the two has several chipper trucks 4 drum chippers and an older front loader and med. size cat. All their equipment is old but perfectly maintained.(they have a stump grinder that belongs in a museum) The owner is a mean crusty old tree guy who gets results and demands his crew does too. A real A Hole, but with integrity. Old school all the way.
> The other guy is a real slickster, has all the toys with all the bells and Whistles. All his trucks are new and custom painted, and he's the best salesman I have ever seen. He has never climbed a tree, but is very knowledgeable about trees. His whole crew acts like primadona's, but do exceptional work also.
> Two excellent company's with different ideas and business plans and personalitys, both doing well. The common ground is quality work, and good reputation. Both have been around for a long time.
> Hack's, regardless of the quality or lack of, of their equipment, come and go(Yes sadly there are exceptions)as water seeks its own level. This process of natural selection would work better if the public wasn't so ignorant.
> But when I dream, I always have a new shiny chipper truck, the best boom and a bc1800 chipper.



i just don't like when people say i wish my mother in law designs beautiful cakes wedding cakes she was voted best in pittsburgh like 3 years in a row and always worked for a company. I've tried to get her to go on her own many times she just won't do it. she loves doing it but is to scared to try it. i even offered to lend her the money to buy all the ovens and rent a space for a while to get going. I'm still working on it. lets say worst case scenario it tanks at least you tried. in my book thats better than not trying at all. theirs never knowing and knowing.


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## beastmaster (Jan 27, 2012)

I have lots of respect for owner operators and the work and time it take to run a successful business. That is what makes me a better then average employee. But I like to go home at the end of the day. When I was self employed it never stopped, I am not ashamed to admit I couldn't handle the pressure and non-stop stress. It take a special kind of person to run a successful business, I am glad you guy's are out there so I have a place to work.


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## mattfr12 (Jan 27, 2012)

beastmaster said:


> I have lots of respect for owner operators and the work and time it take to run a successful business. That is what makes me a better then average employee. But I like to go home at the end of the day. When I was self employed it never stopped, I am not ashamed to admit I couldn't handle the pressure and non-stop stress. It take a special kind of person to run a successful business, I am glad you guy's are out there so I have a place to work.



i think i might be going bald from it tho. my wife hates it. but what i did was make her quite her other job and be my secretary and mail stuff for me answer the phone so we could spend more time together. nice having your wife for a secretary. i don't have to watch the how to treat women in the workplace videos its fair game.

i got her a shirt that says vice president she likes it.


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## ForTheArborist (Jan 27, 2012)

ez_tree_w.ny said:


> i just wanted to touch on the fact i have read a lot of guys stories about the local hack with barely running equipment.... All things aside they might be a hack that does shotty work. But on the other hand what if your bashing a local up an comer like me.. Starting a business in this economy is like juggling chainsaws not everyone could.. But there are a few of us out there that simply dont have the best equipment or for that matter the best saws... But still most of my work comes from referalls... I think if i was a hack that would not be the case.. All im saying is never judge a book by its cover... We all put our boots on the same way in the morning and even thou my operation may look a little rag tag i still use my tree knowledge to make a difference.. And at the end of the day that is what really matters knowledge is more powerful than equipment.



My dump truck and chipper look so bad that I feel like kicking the crap out of it myself...... to be honest with you all. Well, that isn't half of the story. In reality the standard of work matters, and I'm dead serious about that business. I do a lot of joking around with my workers, but if we aren't doing these people's trees the right way, then people might as well have stayed at home. No one is going to get a chance to say that my outfit did a less than perfect job. I mean down to the last leaf perfect, or people start losing wages.


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## TimberMcPherson (Jan 27, 2012)

ForTheAction said:


> My dump truck and chipper look so bad that I feel like kicking the crap out of it myself...... to be honest with you all. Well, that isn't half of the story. In reality the standard of work matters, and I'm dead serious about that business. I do a lot of joking around with my workers, but if we aren't doing these people's trees the right way, then people might as well have stayed at home. No one is going to get a chance to say that my outfit did a less than perfect job. I mean down to the last leaf perfect, or people start losing wages.



Im sure your respected by your peers and competition though, when they are not hiding from the INS.


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## ForTheArborist (Jan 27, 2012)

TimberMcPherson said:


> Im sure your respected by your peers and competition though, when they are not hiding from the INS.



That's funny........and that's just true.


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## Toddppm (Jan 27, 2012)

I started out with an El Camino and a 5x10 trailer 

So who was making fun of this guys equipment anyways? Somebody here? This topic seems to have touched a nerve to get all of these posts


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## Pelorus (Jan 27, 2012)

Toddppm said:


> I started out with an El Camino and a 5x10 trailer :



LOL! My first "tree" truck was a '77 GMC half ton beater. 3 on the tree standard tranny; every once in awhile when shifting from 1st to 2nd, the damn shifter would lock up in neither gear. Would have to stop. pop the hood, and screw around with it. Wheel wells got pounded flat from wood getting thrown in. Good memories. (some of them).


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## treeman75 (Jan 27, 2012)

Pelorus said:


> LOL! My first "tree" truck was a '77 GMC half ton beater. 3 on the tree standard tranny; every once in awhile when shifting from 1st to 2nd, the damn shifter would lock up in neither gear. Would have to stop. pop the hood, and screw around with it. Wheel wells got pounded flat from wood getting thrown in. Good memories. (some of them).



I had a 72 chevy with same tranny that did the same thing.


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## ForTheArborist (Jan 27, 2012)

WTH, this is all getting to be too weird............I think that's probably the word for it. If I were anyone else, I'd think you were a bunch of half cocked losers. I happen to manage just fine in my old beaters, and I happen to not be able to say that about the old beaters of you all's past. Regardless I still feel the need to kick the crap out of mine. Maybe that's too sentimental..............and it is. :msp_sneaky:


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## tree md (Jan 27, 2012)

Well, it's kinda like plablabalapoontang... I've never seen one in the junk yard... But I've seen a couple that aught to have been... :hmm3grin2orange:


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## ForTheArborist (Jan 27, 2012)

tree md said:


> Well, it's kinda like plablabalapoontang... I've never seen one in the junk yard... But I've seen a couple that aught to have been... :hmm3grin2orange:



You know the terminator is going to ban you for this. 

"MESSAGE MEAN EVERYTHING. KOOK MUST DIE."

That is robotitronics for, "your wave lengths ain't familiar, man." Don't mess with him. He climbs trees faster than monkeys, and he has retractable chainsaws built into his 100 ton capacity arms. Proly tracking your address now..........mmmmmmmmaybe. :msp_sneaky:


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## jefflovstrom (Jan 27, 2012)

ForTheAction said:


> You know the terminator is going to ban you for this.
> 
> "MESSAGE MEAN EVERYTHING. KOOK MUST DIE."
> 
> That is robotitronics for, "your wave lengths ain't familiar, man." Don't mess with him. He climbs trees faster than monkeys, and he has retractable chainsaws built into his 100 ton capacity arms. Proly tracking your address now..........mmmmmmmmaybe. :msp_sneaky:



Hey Ed,
This quote is an example of what is an influx of -------'s
Jef


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## ForTheArborist (Jan 27, 2012)

tree md said:


> Well, it's kinda like plablabalapoontang... I've never seen one in the junk yard... But I've seen a couple that aught to have been... :hmm3grin2orange:



And what is this one, ol' skipper???

OJ


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## ez_tree_w.ny (Jan 31, 2012)

*looks like i might have struck a nerve*

i started this thread for humbling reasons it seems like a lot of guys on the site have forgotton what it is like to really struggle and i think lately with the rising equipment cost fuel cost and the fact that probobly 70 percent of people just cant afford high dollar tree work. And advertising is a craps shoot especially for the price... I take all the advice i can from the elder company owners... But to me it seems like there are some people either employed by large tree services or who own them have forgot what humble beginnings we all started with no one out there became a profeshional by throwing their equipment and saying here i am world now give me work.... We are all constantly learning new stratagies and you can never judge a book by its cover..


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## jefflovstrom (Jan 31, 2012)

ez_tree_w.ny said:


> i started this thread for humbling reasons it seems like a lot of guys on the site have forgotton what it is like to really struggle and i think lately with the rising equipment cost fuel cost and the fact that probobly 70 percent of people just cant afford high dollar tree work. And advertising is a craps shoot especially for the price... I take all the advice i can from the elder company owners... But to me it seems like there are some people either employed by large tree services or who own them have forgot what humble beginnings we all started with no one out there became a profeshional by throwing their equipment and saying here i am world now give me work.... We are all constantly learning new stratagies and you can never judge a book by its cover..



You should just relax and read what you just posted.
Jeff


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## ez_tree_w.ny (Jan 31, 2012)

ya know what your right jeff im just frustrated im not big enough for the work to flow all year.. Im working a dead end job with a bunch of people that im not sure how they existed as long as they have with such a life threatening leval of ingnorance im sorry...


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## tree md (Jan 31, 2012)

ez_tree_w.ny said:


> ya know what your right jeff im just frustrated im not big enough for the work to flow all year.. Im working a dead end job with a bunch of people that im not sure how they existed as long as they have with such a life threatening leval of ingnorance im sorry...



So ya wanna be a treeman huh? :hmm3grin2orange:

Everyone slows down this time of year. Concentrate on learning better sales techniques and do good quality work. Always keep your word with people. Word will get around about you.

Hey, it could be worse, you could have a whole lot full of big fine equipment sitting idle and be mad at the world because a leaner service is outselling and out hustling you.


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## superjunior (Jan 31, 2012)

tree md said:


> So ya wanna be a treeman huh? :hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> Everyone slows down this time of year. Concentrate on learning better sales techniques and do good quality work. Always keep your word with people. Word will get around about you.
> 
> Hey, it could be worse, you could have a whole lot full of big fine equipment sitting idle and be mad at the world because a leaner service is outselling and out hustling you.



word..


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## ez_tree_w.ny (Jan 31, 2012)

thanks tree md im very hard on myself because i wanna succeed sometimes i just need someone to spell out the brite sides i dont see...
For now im hanging ass tuff as the times 
reading every thing i can about tree care to stay as sharp as a tack...
And trying to stay as hard as a coffin nail


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## jefflovstrom (Feb 1, 2012)

ez_tree_w.ny said:


> ya know what your right jeff im just frustrated im not big enough for the work to flow all year.. Im working a dead end job with a bunch of people that im not sure how they existed as long as they have with such a life threatening leval of ingnorance im sorry...



[video]<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/9Y-0nWVdBH4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>[/video]
Jeff :msp_tongue:


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## ez_tree_w.ny (Feb 1, 2012)

jefflovstrom said:


> [video]<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/9Y-0nWVdBH4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>[/video]
> Jeff :msp_tongue:





hey your link didnt come up


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## FanOFatherNash (Feb 1, 2012)

mckeetree said:


> I have thoughts about some of this but I'll keep them to myself. I will say this...if I didn't add in new stuff on a yearly basis I couldn't pay my taxes. My CPA looks at things around Nov. and advises me. I ask him once what about all these guys running that old depreciated out equipment that claim they are making good money. His reply was "Well, hmmm, something doesn't add up there does it."



Do you call your cpa for second opinion s after you leave doctors office, does your cpa run a tree business on the side?


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## beastmaster (Feb 1, 2012)

ez_tree_w.ny said:


> ya know what your right jeff im just frustrated im not big enough for the work to flow all year.. Im working a dead end job with a bunch of people that im not sure how they existed as long as they have with such a life threatening leval of ingnorance im sorry...



It's like that in NY too? I have some early threads I wrote a few years ago, and I was at the end of my rope(no pun intended)
Some people were sympathetic, others told me the way it was and were a little harsh, but it was all good advice. 
The mere fact we take the time to post and ask questions or answer some, says loads for the quality of people on this board. Most guys I work around this occupation its just another job. Today trees tomorrow Taco bell, they don't care. They don't want to learn , and have little pride in their work. The end of the day their not thinking trees I tell you that.
The years of being the odd guy who liked his job, are starting to pay dividends now. Not to sound corny but be true to your self, and don't compromise your values.
One of my Dad's Favorite sayings is," everyone is where they want to be". One time this girl said thats not true, I want to be a model. He replyed,"no you would like to be a model, If you really wanted to be one, instead of sitting on the couch hitting the pipe, you'd be saving up for modeling school, etc.
It's hard to soar with the eagles when your running with turkeys.
So where do you want to be in 5 years
Just some food for thought, brother. It can get better, but it don't happen by its self.


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## jefflovstrom (Feb 1, 2012)

All I ever liked to do was climb. Sometimes the money never mattered. I grew my hair and climbed all over SoCal. Never wanted to get married or have kid's. I quit production climbing in 2003 and now the stress level is 10 time's what it was. I leave home at 5:30am and try to get home by 5pm because I got a wife and kid's. 
BTW, I like new equiptment.
Jeff


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## Bigus Termitius (Feb 1, 2012)

jefflovstrom said:


> All I ever liked to do was climb. Sometimes the money never mattered. I grew my hair and climbed all over SoCal. Never wanted to get married or have kid's. I quit production climbing in 2003 and now the stress level is 10 time's what it was. I leave home at 5:30am and try to get home by 5pm because I got a wife and kid's.
> BTW, I like new equiptment.
> Jeff




Stress?? We don't need no stinking stress!


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## ez_tree_w.ny (Feb 2, 2012)

i have been jonesing to be in a tree i really love what i do... My job is really rewarding to me... And theres nothing like the thrill you feel when the planets aline and everything runs super smooth.... As for the folks on the site theres nothing like the advice from all you guys who swing on a line... People as balsy as me are the right people who say what need to be said.. I miss my throw bags zing it cube it was tucked into my big shot kit from sherrill some hunter thought it was a gun in the back of my truck in november... Would have loved to seen the look on his face when he opened that gun case... Plus i have been seriosly thinking about replacing my thee year old sequoia bridge... Ya know just for poops and hahs.. Mabe just a little piece of mind in there too might go gaff up an old telphone pole on my property they dont use it no more i have been seriosly eyeing it just to do something climbing oriented...


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## jefflovstrom (Feb 2, 2012)

ez_tree_w.ny said:


> i have been jonesing to be in a tree i really love what i do... My job is really rewarding to me... And theres nothing like the thrill you feel when the planets aline and everything runs super smooth.... As for the folks on the site theres nothing like the advice from all you guys who swing on a line... People as balsy as me are the right people who say what need to be said.. I miss my throw bags zing it cube it was tucked into my big shot kit from sherrill some hunter thought it was a gun in the back of my truck in november... Would have loved to seen the look on his face when he opened that gun case... Plus i have been seriosly thinking about replacing my thee year old sequoia bridge... Ya know just for poops and hahs.. Mabe just a little piece of mind in there too might go gaff up an old telphone pole on my property they dont use it no more i have been seriosly eyeing it just to do something climbing oriented...



Go to bed!!
It's late!!!!
Jeff


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## ez_tree_w.ny (Feb 2, 2012)

.....!!!


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## ez_tree_w.ny (Feb 2, 2012)

your up just as late as me!!!! 
Besides... I dont need sleep my body runs off of broken hopes and dreams
YOU GO TO BED RIGHT NOW JEFF!...


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