# Wire core lanyard vs nonwire core



## Froggy (Jun 16, 2003)

Quick question for you all. I've used a nonwire core lanyard for a while now. Now I'm thinking I should use a wire core lanyard as much as I can to reduce the risk of cutting through the lanyard. I'm very careful and pay attention to my lanyard and ropes all the time. Why risk it when you are away from electrical hazards. What are some of the advantages of the wire core. Besides the fact you are less likely to cut through and it is stiffer than nonwire core. I also heard it's easier to climb with. Any feed back is welcome.
Thanks,BB


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## kf_tree (Jun 16, 2003)

1 vote steel core.

the steel core makes it easier to flip up a stick. the stiffness helps to flip it or pull the back side up on rough bark or vine covered tree's. i really really like it....i've used it with a gibbs and a petzl, no real preference though. they both have their quirks.


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## Ryan Willock (Jun 16, 2003)

On removals I use a steel core flip line with a micro grab, however on prune jobs where I won't be using my chain saw much I prefer to use a regular flipline.


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## monkeypuzzle (Jun 16, 2003)

I too use a wire core flip with a gibbs, 8 footer and 5/8'' dia. , seems to be easier to control than the 1/2''. I keep a 10' just in case, but rarely use it. I also have a 5 footer, I don't know where it came from though. I don't care for the swivel snap.

I think steel core is easier to throw around a spar and catch than the non-steel core,not as floppy.

Don't have anything negitive to say about them.


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## Mattman (Jun 16, 2003)

I didn't know that people were using non-steel core fliplines until I saw Frans the other day. I still don't understand it. When ever around power lines I just use to high leads. 
Matt


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## rahtreelimbs (Jun 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Ryan Willock _
> *On removals I use a steel core flip line with a micro grab, however on prune jobs where I won't be using my chain saw much I prefer to use a regular flipline. *



Ditto!!!

Although I use a Distel hitch on my nonwire core lanyard.


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## NeTree (Jun 16, 2003)

Steel here, mostly.


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## ramanujan (Jun 17, 2003)

what are people's practices as far as double tie-ins when using a steel core? for myself i know that on a standard single stem excurrent removal (something i do a lot of) i climb and cut tied in only with my steel core. 

to work with two lanyards or lanyard and climbing line in this situation is overly cumbersome and, from my point of view, unnecessary.

i realize that it is very possible to cut thru a steel core with a saw, but like so many other things in this biz, it's an accepted risk.

if the tree is a leaner and i feel that in the event of a gaff out i may slip to the ground i will either double wrap my lanyard or tie in with a running system.

ditto for the rope lanyard for pruning... not only are they easier to manage for work positioning but with an aluminum snap on the end and a distel for adjustment, they're noticeably lighter also.


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## Jacob J. (Jun 17, 2003)

What exactly is the Distel hitch? Is this an improved Blake hitch? I use the Blake for overhead tie-ins and the prusik on a split tail with my running lanyard but have never heard of a Distel hitch. Thanks, JJ


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## jblimbwalker (Jun 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Jacob J. _
> *What exactly is the Distel hitch? Is this an improved Blake hitch? I use the Blake for overhead tie-ins and the prusik on a split tail with my running lanyard but have never heard of a Distel hitch. Thanks, JJ *



The Distel is merely a tautline tied on a closed system. The fact that it is a closed system changes the performance significantly. I mainly work off the Knut, but Distel is my second choice. Do a search here for them both.


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## TREETX (Jun 17, 2003)

Courtesy of Sergio at www.treeclimbing.it 







Not many single stem excurrent trees here so it is a RARE day that I am in hooks at all. I mean rare. Therefore, I don't use a steel core. I feel safe anyway because I employ 2 tie ins. Even with a steel core, use 2 tie ins. It only takes a second to cut through a steel core with a ms200. That is according to a MC post on *bzz. A second can still make all the difference.

Steel core is not a license to be sloppy or careless.

In Germany, steel core is mandatory but then again, they have only been able to LEGALLY use a chainsaw in a tree since 2001.


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## Ryan Willock (Jun 17, 2003)

Jacob, if you try the distel hitch you won't want to use a Blake's again!! word of advice..... BUY THE MICRO PULLY!!!!! You won't be sorry! Do you have to high climb some of the timber you cut?? Or do you do residential jobs?


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## Jacob J. (Jun 17, 2003)

<p>That's a great looking pic of the Distel, I am going to try that. Plus you can set up your pulley in a way that's much more convenient. Ryan- A lot of times after I finish cutting a unit I help the rigging slinger pull roads down and change "lanes". Both the rigging slinger and the hook tender do a lot of climbing, the rigging slinger setting tail blocks and haul-back lines, the hook tender sets the tower wires and intermediate supports. I help these guys hang blocks and straps, or set haywire over fixed "running anchors" for hauling up long lengths of skyline. We do a little residential work, not much. I wish I had a crew from this site though, I have a 12' Redwood that's about 5' off of a guy's front porch that he wants out. I think there's going to be a crane in his front yard soon. <p/>


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## Tim Gardner (Jun 17, 2003)

I read somewhere that a rope manufacturer is coming out with a rope that is as stiff as a steel core but not as heavy. Anyone else see that?

The steel core does make it easier to flip up larger diameter spars but I just set a line and get a groundie to belay me on my way up. Most of the time I can set my climbing line and self belay with it. Using a v.t. climbing hitch the rope will usually feed itself through as I pull down on the standing part and “walk” up the spar. 

Use your hands to trace the flip line around the spar to make sure it is below your cut before reaching for your saw. Get the 10' steel core. I was on a job last week with a friend of mine. He came out of a tree and said that his steel core “ran out”. He uses an 8 footer. I wanted to say "I told you so" but bit my lip. The extra two feet make a big difference. 

There is a good thread over at the buz* that talks about flip lines and safety.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jun 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Jacob J. _
> *<p> I wish I had a crew from this site though, I have a 12' Redwood that's about 5' off of a guy's front porch that he wants out. I think there's going to be a crane in his front yard soon. <p/> *



Get ahold of Mike Oxman, you should be able to find a link to hime here, though he is boycotting the site because he does not think we should have any discretion as to postings 

I've worked with him on some big storm jobs.

He is out of Seattle now, but comes from Oregon. He's working as a subcontractor these days.

If you annot get ahold of him through the site, drop me a line I have his email.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jun 17, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Tim Gardner _
> *I read somewhere that a rope manufacturer is coming out with a rope that is as stiff as a steel core but not as heavy. Anyone else see that?
> *



There are some out there now, I first started climbing with a 3 strand hardlay flipline on a prussick.

I think I've seen some 12 strand too.

Using a steel line is false security. While it may take a nick better then 16 strand, it will only slow a saw down a bit if comming straight across under trension.

I aluways double tie with my climbing line under my flip. The flip is a little more comfortable to lean back into where I have it rigged to the saddle.


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## Tim Gardner (Jun 17, 2003)

Here is a picture of a removal I did last week using my 16 strand flipline. There was way too much top in that one to lug the steel core around in.


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## Froggy (Jun 17, 2003)

*Reply*

So if steel core if a false security and wont slow down the saw under pressure. Then why use it if a 16 strand is lighter and just as effective. The only reason I can see to switch would be because it would reduce the risk of cutting your self out of the tree.


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## NickfromWI (Jun 18, 2003)

*Re: Reply*



> _Originally posted by Froggy _
> *So if steel core if a false security and wont slow down the saw under pressure. Then why use it if a 16 strand is lighter and just as effective. *



Froggy-
I think this is the reason most people stick with "rope" flip lines. Double tie in, and you should be fine. I couldn't imagine lugging around a steel flip line. Maybe I'm just a weenie!

love
nick


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## John Paul Sanborn (Jun 18, 2003)

My understandin is that they were first used because they flip a big trunk much better and they lasted longer then hemp.


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## kf_tree (Jun 18, 2003)

i just like the stiffness of the cable. and the ease of swinging it around a big stick. the fact that it's "chain saw resisitant" is not a factor in my useing it. if i'm stupid enough to cut through my flip line i deserve what i get.

when i'm humping a saw around on my hip i don't care if my flip line weighs a pound more. if i was so concerned about being light weight when i climb i'd loose more weight from my gut, and cut my hair.


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## ramanujan (Jun 18, 2003)

has anyone actually tried to cut through a steel core? i certainly expect that it can be done, but the few times that i have caught a bit of wire fence when bucking down a stump the wire has stopped the saw dead. 

it would be interesting to do a test. anyone have a saw to volunteer?


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## Burnham (Jun 19, 2003)

I have taken part in a test of saw vs. cable core lanyard. We used a Stihl 036, middle-aged chain, recently sharpened. The lanyard was 3/4 inch manila with 3/16 inch cable core. When the lanyard was tensioned over a log by two stout assistants the saw ate that lanyard right up. With less tension on the lanyard there was better resistance, but it cut pretty quickly, too. I think that in the "just nicked it" scenario you have some safety benefits with the cable, but if you are cutting blind, dogged in and going hard, you would maybe not find out 'til too late.

For spur climbing on stems over about 20 inches, cable core is the only way to go, due to ease of handling. And since I climb with a pair of 15 footers (big trees out here), you can see that the disadvantage of the weight does not overpower the advantage of ease of use for me.


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## Ryan Willock (Jun 19, 2003)

I have to agree about the ease of use for climbing larger stems, as they really do make it easier to advance your line. The extra weight isn't an issue for me at all.


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## Froggy (Jun 20, 2003)

*Reply*

So from what I'm gathering here. It's a good idea to have one on large stalks or removals. As far as reducing the risk of cutting through it. Not really an issue. For big wood it's the way to go. You should have both a steel core and a nonsteel core in your gear. Cool
My boss has one I'm going to try out and he also said he'd buy me one if I wanted it.
Thanks,BB


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