# Bucking up the Big Tree



## smokechase II (Aug 10, 2009)

http://www.inciweb.org/incident/pictures/large/1763/24/

This is from the Williams Fire Photo Page.

There are some other photos scattered thru that are of the NorthWest Timber Fallers so I suspect this is of them.

No big deal.


----------



## cbolyard (Aug 10, 2009)

Nice photo for sure! I've seen the Northwest Timber Fallers at work in person on the fireline... they are definitely a very capable bunch.


----------



## tramp bushler (Aug 10, 2009)

Ya , nice pic .. what kind of tree? 
. whats with the guys dressed like cutters and the other guys dressed like G Es ///


----------



## smokechase II (Aug 10, 2009)

*Other guys*

Misc Overhead.

Must be.

I Googled the name of the guy given credit for the photo with 'fire' and got some document on Mazama _______________ ____________.

He must be a resource advisor or an ologist that started as and still is a fire fighter.

===================

The way these things usually work is two cutters go out with a falling boss.

So the scene would typically be set with one cutter dropping a hazard while the other and the falling boss (who have helped with escape route clearing and packing stuff) are now blocking access from all the other fire fighter who want to see. Two tree lengths and more if slope etc.

When things get easier for safety distance crowds show up.


----------



## bullbuck (Aug 10, 2009)

nice pic,hope that one made it to the mill?looks to be solid


----------



## smokechase II (Aug 10, 2009)

*The mill*

If it is on federal land, and much of this fire is, it may not make it to the mill.

Cross your fingers.


----------



## cbolyard (Aug 10, 2009)

smokechase II said:


> If it is on federal land, and much of this fire is, it may not make it to the mill.
> 
> Cross your fingers.



Isn't it a shame how few quality saw logs from the fireline don't make it to the mill?

IIRC, the guy given credit for that photo is an FMO on the Fremont-Winema NF, Crescent or Chemult Ranger District.


----------



## Tree Sling'r (Aug 10, 2009)

smokechase II said:


> Misc Overhead.
> 
> Must be.
> 
> ...



George Liebercajt is a Div. Sup on the ORCA Type II team who managing the Williams Fire. George is from central Oregon, he is a good guy.


----------



## smokechase II (Aug 10, 2009)

*Mill*

*"Isn't it a shame how few quality saw logs from the fireline don't make it to the mill?"*

================

I understand that there are some needs for dead wood in the woods for critters.

But in the FS it got not just silly but absurd.

If that road is doable that whole log should make it out.
Even if they had to split it and short log it.

==================

I certainly can't speak for the the agency (I'm retired) but as a citizen I would like to apologize. 
This isn't an apology put out from a we need the jobs perspective. Although there is certainly nothing wrong with that.

Historically, these large fires come in multiples.
1) Insect or disease events usually get things rolling,
2) First fire burns the above then kills more,
those additional tree die and many fall over,
3) Second fire and perhaps more.
................... These additional fires cause a lot of soil sterilization ..................

===============

We can stop these cycles at any time.

Sensible logging (thinning from below etc) with fuels treatment.
Anytime.

=============

So I'm advocating trees go to the mill, virtually never without the slash dealt with, put fire fighters out of work.
Of course we know that'll never happen.


----------



## smokechase II (Aug 10, 2009)

*so many*

There have been so many large fires in big trees in the western US in the last couple decades ..............

Plenty of work for the cutters.

==============

Plus we're going into an El Nino and while no one can predict a fire season the historical stats 'suggest' a busy next couple years.


----------



## smokechase II (Aug 10, 2009)

*George*

George must be from Chemult.

(Crescent is on the Deschutes NF)

=============

The fact that he contributed on a paper means he has smarts.
Not his fault.


----------



## cbolyard (Aug 10, 2009)

I couldn't agree more that sensible logging would go a long way to making the forests a better place. But thanks to the enviro wackos that think a healthy forest means one choking (literally) with trees so thick you can't see through them it's hard to make any headway.


----------



## cbolyard (Aug 10, 2009)

smokechase II said:


> George must be from Chemult.
> 
> (Crescent is on the Deschutes NF)



Correct, and thanks for the brain duster. Haven't even been gone from that country quite a year and already I'm forgetting things


----------



## slowp (Aug 10, 2009)

That log is on a forest which is ruled by the Northwest Forest Plan. I highly doubt it will make it to a mill. Before any tree heads to the mill, an environmental assessment has to be done and that means surveys for the sensitive species, plants, slugs, birds, and other critters. That takes about a year. Then you have to figure out what management area the tree is in. LSR? Forget it. Then the timber sale will be appealed and run through the gamut and IF the sale survives all the legal challenges, it might still be good to sell, but maybe not anymore. 

You have to figure is it worth all of the above? Or is it more feasible to leave it alone. Perhaps the fish people have enough funding to dump it in a river or creek?

One person can hold it up. That's the way it is.

Oh, LSR stands for Late Seral Reserve officially. Unofficially, we politically incorrect people say it stands for Let Sit and Rot.

Back to bucking. That looks scary to me. But I'm just a "B" Bucker, which I think is fitting. I've always been just a B student...


----------



## bullbuck (Aug 10, 2009)

one particular burn salvage sale i remember,the enviros had exhausted all of their 5$injunctuions that the courts would allow,and we had to be on the job at the ready to put saw to wood immediately after recieving word of a go ahead,thus being underway it could no longer be appealedat least thats what i understood


----------



## 2dogs (Aug 10, 2009)

That is one big stick! Thanks for the pic.


----------



## smokechase II (Aug 11, 2009)

*I'll be positive for one post*

Those NW Timber Fallers are pretty dang good.

I've only been around them a little but I was impressed with quality quantity safety attitude to do the job etc.

I asked a bud who went down to a Cal fire as a Division Sup last year how they did for him.

Two words:
"ROCK STARS"

They get high marks for their ability on about a 100% level.

Their spokesperson/owner does a real quality job too standing up for industry folks on fires.

From what I read she is a tiger and I'd back down from her in a bar too.


----------



## smokechase II (Aug 11, 2009)

*Time to be negative*

That NW Forest Plan is a killer.

I worked on a Eastside forest that had both Owl habitat and just regular ol' forest.

Effectively what that meant for me was that I'd just give up on the Owl Line stuff, (I was low level scum who just did the easy paperwork CE's).

Nobody noticed as I was involved in protecting Antennae farms etc. That seemed important down low.

Also; there was so much in house fighting that the higher wildlife controlled acres were depressing to work on.

****************

When you look at a forest service employee realize that there is a heelllll.


----------



## slowp (Aug 11, 2009)

bullbuck said:


> one particular burn salvage sale i remember,the enviros had exhausted all of their 5$injunctuions that the courts would allow,and we had to be on the job at the ready to put saw to wood immediately after recieving word of a go ahead,thus being underway it could no longer be appealedat least thats what i understood



There is a time period for an appeal. That time is usually calculated in for how long it takes to put a sale up. But, if the appeal is ruled on in favor of the FS, then the complainers can take it to court. You could have been shut down by a court injunction.


----------



## cbolyard (Aug 11, 2009)

slowp said:


> That log is on a forest which is ruled by the Northwest Forest Plan. I highly doubt it will make it to a mill. Before any tree heads to the mill, an environmental assessment has to be done and that means surveys for the sensitive species, plants, slugs, birds, and other critters. That takes about a year. Then you have to figure out what management area the tree is in. LSR? Forget it. Then the timber sale will be appealed and run through the gamut and IF the sale survives all the legal challenges, it might still be good to sell, but maybe not anymore.
> 
> You have to figure is it worth all of the above? Or is it more feasible to leave it alone. Perhaps the fish people have enough funding to dump it in a river or creek?
> 
> ...



All good points. Back in 06 the Tripod Fire was burning on my home district. There was a lot of quality timber fell on that fire for one reason or another, and not a single b/f of it was in LSR or any other management area that would have prevented it from being sent to the mill. Of the 180,000 acres or so that burned, I think they ended up doing a salvage sale on about 8,000 of it. All the log decks but one got sold in the salvage... the one that didn't get sold was right behind some private land on another small fire that was burning at the same time and the landowner wouldn't give us an easement. He ended up buying the deck this year for firewood so at least it won't go to waste.
NW Forest Plan and people with too much time on their hands (and often not enough smarts) really slow things down for the R6 forests a lot of times... its a shame but all you can do is grit your teeth and bear it.


----------



## bullbuck (Aug 11, 2009)

slowp said:


> There is a time period for an appeal. That time is usually calculated in for how long it takes to put a sale up. But, if the appeal is ruled on in favor of the FS, then the complainers can take it to court. You could have been shut down by a court injunction.


yes that is what they where trying to do,i believe it was the center for biological diversity,that had injucted the salvage of this burn for almost two years,but from what i remember bush had just implemented the healthy forests initiative,and i think what that did was put limitations on how many times they could injuct the sale,from what i understand is it costs five dollars at the county courthouse and you can sue or injuct?(i am no attorney)anyone you like,but apparently they had used up all of their trys,thank goodness,and we got back to work


----------



## 1I'dJak (Aug 11, 2009)

repressing forest fires here in BC has been partly blamed for the big big fires ....argument goes that smaller fires take care of fuel loading, burn off duff, promtoe growth of certain trees, keeping the forest structure a bit more diverse etc...natives did it long ago to create grazing/hunting grounds and promote growth of first stage seral species that offered foodstuffs....anways, among a certain group, prescribed burns are all the rage yet are hard to promote to some...


----------



## bullbuck (Aug 11, 2009)

1I'dJak said:


> repressing forest fires here in BC has been partly blamed for the big big fires ....argument goes that smaller fires take care of fuel loading, burn off duff, promtoe growth of certain trees, keeping the forest structure a bit more diverse etc...natives did it long ago to create grazing/hunting grounds and promote growth of first stage seral species that offered foodstuffs....anways, among a certain group, prescribed burns are all the rage yet are hard to promote to some...


here in this area they have been allowing fires to burn their course in some of the wilderness areas,i do not know what kind of results they are getting,but alot of this area needs to burn,in my opinion,just when the wind is not blowing,thats the catch,i am sure you might have heard of the "control burn"near los alamos a few years back


----------



## 2dogs (Aug 11, 2009)

1I'dJak said:


> repressing forest fires here in BC has been partly blamed for the big big fires ....argument goes that smaller fires take care of fuel loading, burn off duff, promtoe growth of certain trees, keeping the forest structure a bit more diverse etc...natives did it long ago to create grazing/hunting grounds and promote growth of first stage seral species that offered foodstuffs....anways, among a certain group, prescribed burns are all the rage yet are hard to promote to some...



The environmentalists who fight prescribed fire or any other forest management plan here in Collyfornia site the "terrible" track record of fire proponents. They claim damage going back over 500 years by those people who advocate frequent low level fires. They also claim the almost park like landscape first viewed by European explorers and settlers was in reality a hell-on-earth artificialy created by the prescribed fire proponents and their evil philosophy. These evil doers used to be called Indians, then Native Americans, and now just "first settlers". Their slash and burn techniques are being credited for creating an entire false eco-system that encompasses much of the USA and Canada. Now we are beginning to here that there should be no forest management of any types other than to eradicate non-native species and stop human activities in the forests.

This is of course radical BS (in my opinion) but it does have a litle traction around my home town. I'm positive the 9th Circuit Court will fall in love with this notion when they hear of it. There will be more law suits with groups of animals as the plaintives. Heck, Smokey Bear will probably sued in civil court.


----------



## smokechase II (Aug 12, 2009)

*controlled*

*"here in this area they have been allowing fires to burn their course in some of the wilderness areas,i do not know what kind of results they are getting,but alot of this area needs to burn,in my opinion,just when the wind is not blowing,thats the catch,i am sure you might have heard of the "control burn"near los alamos a few years back"*

++++++++++++++++

I was on the rehab of the Cerro Grande (Los Alamos) burn.

It was a billion dollar mistake.

Seriously.

---------------

On the bright side i don't feel so bad about ordering that unneeded load of retardent back in the 1970's. $2,000 bucks wasted. small potatoes. 

===============

You can't lite a match without taking some risk.
I'm sure the Indians, relax - my Mom always said She was an Indian - Not a Native American, had their mistakes too.


----------



## bullbuck (Aug 12, 2009)

smokechase II said:


> *"here in this area they have been allowing fires to burn their course in some of the wilderness areas,i do not know what kind of results they are getting,but alot of this area needs to burn,in my opinion,just when the wind is not blowing,thats the catch,i am sure you might have heard of the "control burn"near los alamos a few years back"*
> 
> ++++++++++++++++
> 
> ...



haha,i have burned quite a few commercial cat piles,some in excess of 150'by150',i have been very close to losing control on more than one,i am only 33 but some of the crazy stuff i have seen fire do!i have been very close to "almost" large mistakes myself:jawdrop:


----------



## hammerlogging (Aug 12, 2009)

> 2dogs said:
> 
> 
> > These evil doers used to be called Indians, then Native Americans, and now just "first settlers". Their slash and burn techniques are being credited for creating an entire false eco-system that encompasses much of the USA and Canada. Now we are beginning to here that there should be no forest management of any types other than to eradicate non-native species and stop human activities in the forests.
> ...


----------



## slowp (Aug 12, 2009)

My theory of little things, that add up to make small fires get big.

We have fewer people in the woods. Fewer loggers, fewer foresters and Forest Service people. Fewer people who are familiar with what smoke looks like and what to do.

Roads are closed or "decommissioned". Can't get close to the fires by driving.

There's others but the coffee hasn't kicked in yet.


----------



## smokechase II (Aug 12, 2009)

*There I was ................. Once upon a time.............This is no b*

*"haha,i have burned quite a few commercial cat piles,some in excess of 150'by150',i have been very close to losing control on more than one,i am only 33 but some of the crazy stuff i have seen fire do!i have been very close to "almost" large mistakes myself"*

===============

40 years in fire and fuels:
I've been on over 100,000 acres of prescribed burning. (Thanks to South Carolina - Francis Marion NF for most of those acres)
I've burned tens of thousands of handpiles. (Thanks to the Deschutes / State of Oregon Inmate Program for a majority of those)
I've burned thousands of landing piles (aka cat piles - thanks to loggers)
I know there is global warming because I have been personally responsible. I also know that Al Gore was not prepared because his slide show never mentioned me.

---------------------------

Of all the burning I've ever been on no escape ever exceeded 5 acres.
(I was on a few over achievements by others, but none where I was there initially.)

---------------------------

My regret.
That I did not burn more. Low intensity of course.


----------



## smokechase II (Aug 12, 2009)

*Photos*

Here is one from a few years back.


----------



## cbolyard (Aug 12, 2009)

smokechase II said:


> Here is one from a few years back.



That looks like a unit that was fun to burn!


----------



## bullbuck (Aug 12, 2009)

smokechase II said:


> Here is one from a few years back.


thats a neat burn backpack setup,never seen one of those,i always have used just the standard drip torch for burning


----------



## slowp (Aug 12, 2009)

And flat ground. 

No rolling chunks? No rocks? No cowering behind an old growth stump while things went rolling by? Where's the fun?


----------



## smokechase II (Aug 12, 2009)

*Steep deep and cheap*

Tim B told me about one of the West side burns he was on.

They burned it, went fine, after dark they were mopping up at the bottom of the unit.
One guy gets hit, rock or log - I can't remember.
They spend a few hours packing him up and out.
He's loaded in a rig and off to a Doc - he never recovered fully - mental deficits.
Rig pulls away, Boss says back down the hill and lets get 'er mopped.

=======================

I did maybe 3 dozen wet side units. Not many but I understand the fun aspect.

**********************

We were trying out and evaluating a bunch of different burning tools. Pump up diesel torches were OK. 
The simple drip torch is usually not the best tool for any job but its the one that does the most jobs well.


----------



## Jacob J. (Aug 12, 2009)

Tree Sling'r said:


> George Liebercajt is a Div. Sup on the ORCA Type II team who managing the Williams Fire. George is from central Oregon, he is a good guy.



He's the FMO at Chemult Ranger District.


----------



## cbolyard (Aug 12, 2009)

Jacob J. said:


> He's the FMO at Chemult Ranger District.



I think someone mentioned that earlier in this thread


----------



## Jacob J. (Aug 12, 2009)

They mentioned that he's at Chemult, but not what he does. Plus, that was conjecture. I actually know the guy and work with him on a semi-regular basis since we're both in SCOFMP.


----------



## slowp (Aug 12, 2009)

We didn't ever hurt anyone too badly, but we had a lot of "All right, we're going to plan D." Which meant our simple, evening broadcast burn, for which we timber beasties got paid overtime to help  turned into a burn until the wee hours of the morning because the main fire spotted over into another unit, which was logged, but we didn't plan to burn it that night, but we did.

Pour the fuel to it, get that column built up! Stagger in to do our timber jobs the next morning, and try and get that work done. Our fuels guy would walk around flicking a bic lighter when he needed bodies. We were young and stupid, and needed the money

What was really nice, was that the timber sale contracts required the purchaser to supply the mopup crews. We supplied hose, pumps and a pump operator. We had to stop burning sometimes because we ran short on hoses and pumps and mopup crews. Ahhhh, the old days when the budgets were huge......and the timber too.


----------



## 2dogs (Aug 13, 2009)

That is a might fancy torch ya got there. Ever got to use a Terra Torch?


----------



## smokechase II (Aug 13, 2009)

*I remember*

We were burning a unit down on Lowell RD near Eugene, 1973 I think.

All the grunts were saying that we needed a hose lay through a very small saddle but the head guy said no, we'll put the coals to it over here on the small butte and generate enough heat to pull away from the saddle.

The grunts were right.

I was out about 75 yards away from the line in a fetal with my nose buried in my shirt with eyes watering more than Niagara. Fair amount of snot.
Everyone was doing the same.
Get up about every 10 minutes and rotate someone through who would give a report on how many spots that had 'scratch line'. Emphasis on the scratch.

The head guy was coming through away from the line cause he couldn't take it either and headed right at me.
Coughing and blowing snot.
I didn't move - turned my Motorola radio off.

He tripped slightly as he hit one of my boots.

The smoke was so thick and his vision so obscured by watering he couldn't see well enough to realize he had tripped on a living creature.

--------------------

There were maybe 50 spots in the large fuels. Everything else was wet enough in the shade that it didn't carry. We did put in hose later and moped for awhile.

--------------------

I'm retired and live a largely snot free lifestyle.


----------



## 2dogs (Aug 13, 2009)

smokechase II said:


> We were burning a unit down on Lowell RD near Eugene, 1973 I think.
> 
> All the grunts were saying that we needed a hose lay through a very small saddle but the head guy said no, we'll put the coals to it over here on the small butte and generate enough heat to pull away from the saddle.
> 
> ...



I've never worked a Rx burn quite like that but when I was about 14 years old I was working a ranch burn that escaped. We were trynig to burn off 3 thousand acres out of 20,000 plus. The 2 thousand acres was all green the next morning but another 8 thou was black. The ranch was beautiful the next spring though.

Another time (much later) I was driving a contract water tender on a training burn on Ft. Hunter Ligget. The training ended around 4:00 pm but the rekindle started during dinner. It burned into a closed off part of the base. The closure was due to UXO. It burned all night and crossed out of the range during breakfast. We just practised on another part of the base.

Same training burn one of the other drivers had his tender roll away while he was filling it.


----------



## oregoncutter (Aug 13, 2009)

*what a waste, but nothing new!*



smokechase II said:


> If it is on federal land, and much of this fire is, it may not make it to the mill.
> 
> Cross your fingers.


Back in the winter of 96- 97 we had a batch of nasty weather, a warm system come in lot's of heavy snow above 3,500ft and heavy rain, and wind below that, then a huge melt off. There were so many uproots, and blowdowns right along the roads on b.l.m, and forest service I could never figure out why they didn't accept bids for the logs some were pretty nice old growth sticks. Instead they left alot to rot or just had them cleaned out enough to get through the roads. As far as taking that log to a mill it's sort of sad anymore there is only a few mills even semi locally around douglas county here that can process or even accept logs over 31'' on the big end, seems most are looking for the 18''-24'' diameter logs. Now cedar depending on the market is a different story it's usualy not too hard to find someone willing to buy the larger cedar logs. Then to bring it to town You have to look at the feasability of going in and getting it, is there enough to make it worth doing, are there access roads, cost and possibility of even being able to scratch dirt to build roads into the job, being close to the n umpqua river i'd imagine the enviros will keep a close eye on all activity in that area, too bad they never seem to show up with a shovel or to help during fires (not that anyone would want them there though)


----------



## slowp (Aug 13, 2009)

We were lucky. The fuels guy wanted us timber beasties to be willing to help, so he *usually* put us in spots that weren't too smoky. Either lighting or bumping down the hose line wetting things down. Once though, things got crazy and we were near some homes in the woods. Our nice little burn on flat ground for a change, turned into a night time exercise of pulling hose all over in the dark. I had the smoke smell in my hair for a month afterwards. 

Some of the fire guys had to find other jobs because they became extra sensitive to smoke.


----------



## Greystoke (Aug 13, 2009)

2dogs said:


> The environmentalists who fight prescribed fire or any other forest management plan here in Collyfornia site the "terrible" track record of fire proponents. They claim damage going back over 500 years by those people who advocate frequent low level fires. They also claim the almost park like landscape first viewed by European explorers and settlers was in reality a hell-on-earth artificialy created by the prescribed fire proponents and their evil philosophy. These evil doers used to be called Indians, then Native Americans, and now just "first settlers". Their slash and burn techniques are being credited for creating an entire false eco-system that encompasses much of the USA and Canada. Now we are beginning to here that there should be no forest management of any types other than to eradicate non-native species and stop human activities in the forests.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




It's not Just opinion, it is BS! Definitely don't miss all the tree-huggers and Liberal bias in that area.


----------



## Greystoke (Aug 13, 2009)

*Forest Fires and Timber Management*



1I'dJak said:


> repressing forest fires here in BC has been partly blamed for the big big fires ....argument goes that smaller fires take care of fuel loading, burn off duff, promtoe growth of certain trees, keeping the forest structure a bit more diverse etc...natives did it long ago to create grazing/hunting grounds and promote growth of first stage seral species that offered foodstuffs....anways, among a certain group, prescribed burns are all the rage yet are hard to promote to some...



I don't buy into that ideology at all. The fires of 1910 Burned across 3 million acres of Idaho and Montana...Largest forest fire in American history. There was very little fire-fighting going on prior to 1910(Forest Service was formed in 1905), and there was nothing they could do but just watch it blow up. Liberal media here have blamed our big fires on overly aggressive fire-fighting, and logging, but all they have to do is some research on the history of 1910. We could be having big fires because we have been having hotter and dryer weather than normal maybe, combined with overgrown forests? It does not take a genius to figure out what needs to be done to help prevent us having to watch, and breathe, all of our federal timberlands going up in smoke...just take a look at all of the private timber-land owners across this country, then compare the percentage of private timber-land that burns up, compared to the percentage of Federal timber-land that burns up(minus wilderness areas of course).


----------



## cbolyard (Aug 13, 2009)

Jacob J. said:


> They mentioned that he's at Chemult, but not what he does. Plus, that was conjecture. I actually know the guy and work with him on a semi-regular basis since we're both in SCOFMP.



I know him as well, I used to work on the same Forest but a different district. Never got a chance to work with him though. I was working out of the metropolis known as Bly


----------



## smokechase II (Aug 13, 2009)

*Adding fuel to the fire*

There is no doubt in my mind that we have made things worse in our forests by mismanagement. 

The biggest error is not roads or logging but it is clearly fire suppression.

===============

Granted, the 1910 fires occurred before fire suppression.
Those stand replacement fires have always occurred. It was just that they were much further apart.

Now they are close together.

*********************

The pics are typical of a stand where Fire has been excluded. 

Somewhere in Montana. Spanning several decades. (They are mislabeled year - closer to 15 years apart)

==================

The item to focus on here is ladder fuels. The new young trees that everyone loves so much are the ones that kill the old growth.


----------



## smokechase II (Aug 13, 2009)

*Throughout all ecosystems*

Here are a couple photos - one hundred years apart - of a hillside East of Prineville Oregon.

We refer to this as the Juniper incursion.

You add fuel you get hotter - bigger - more dangerous fires.

=================

I don't know of any witness evidence for this specific location but I suspect that the Juniper stand from 1889 was a product of Native American burning more that just Mother Nature.
One advantage to 'Paiute Forestry' is that it made the stands either far more fire resistant or far less subject to catastrophic damage.


----------



## Jacob J. (Aug 13, 2009)

cbolyard said:


> I know him as well, I used to work on the same Forest but a different district. Never got a chance to work with him though. I was working out of the metropolis known as Bly



Good god man, you have my sympathies....


----------



## cbolyard (Aug 13, 2009)

Jacob J. said:


> Good god man, you have my sympathies....



So I take it you know Bly then?  There's a reason I don't live in SE OR anymore... I'm just glad we didn't have to live in Bly.


----------



## cbolyard (Aug 13, 2009)

smokechase II said:


> Here are a couple photos - one hundred years apart - of a hillside East of Prineville Oregon.
> 
> We refer to this as the Juniper incursion.
> 
> ...



Ah yes, the march of the junipers...


----------



## smokechase II (Aug 13, 2009)

*"So I take it you know Bly then? There's a reason I don't live in SE OR anymore... I'm just glad we didn't have to live in Bly."*

===============

The only people I know that ever wanted to go to Bly were some Islamic terrorists who wanted to set up a training ranch shootin' range. Typical Warshingtoneans if you asked me.

----------------

Actually SE Oregon (had the largest cattle ranch in the US), is really neat.
Big spaces, geothermal stuff, scarp faults- Steens Mtns, BIG BIG deer, Alvord Desert/Lake, Big spaces.


----------



## cbolyard (Aug 13, 2009)

smokechase II said:


> *"So I take it you know Bly then? There's a reason I don't live in SE OR anymore... I'm just glad we didn't have to live in Bly."*
> 
> ===============
> 
> ...



Bly has a lot of interesting history... the only stateside casualties of WWII were in Bly, there was a terrorist training camp near there just prior to 9/11, lots more weirdness happened in that town. And I'm sure you know it was Weyerhauser's HQ back in the heydays of actually selling timber. I didn't mind SE OR, but we were a long way from anybody or anything we knew down there.
And I'm not a Warshingtonean, I'm from ID  Whether that's better or worse is yet to be decided


----------



## smokechase II (Aug 13, 2009)

*Islamic terrorists*

*"And I'm not a Warshingtonean"*

I was referring to the "Islamic terrorists who wanted to set up a training ranch shootin' range."

They were Warshingtoneans just prior to their Bly 'excursion'.

==========

Typical.

Some offense intended, although certainly not at a *cal if or nick ate* level.


----------



## cbolyard (Aug 13, 2009)

smokechase II said:


> I was referring to the "Islamic terrorists who wanted to set up a training ranch shootin' range."
> 
> They were Warshingtoneans just prior to their Bly 'excursion'.



Now that I hadn't heard before.


----------



## smokechase II (Aug 15, 2009)

*Matter of public record*

"5. During various times relevant in this Indictment, EARNEST JAMES
UJAAMA (hereinafter, “UJAAMA”), whose birth name was James Earnest Thompson,
and who also has used and adopted the names Bilal Ahmed, Abu Samayya, and Abdul
Qaadir, visited and resided in London, England; and visited and resided in *Seattle, Warshington.*
B. OBJECT OF THE CONSPIRACY
6. Beginning at a time uncertain, but no later than the fall of 1999 and continuing
through the present, in the Western District of Washington and elsewhere, EARNEST
JAMES UJAAMA, a/k/a Bilal Ahmed, a/k/a Abu Samayya, a/k/a James Earnest
Thompson, a/k/a Abdul Qaadir (“UJAAMA”), did knowingly conspire, combine,
confederate, and agree together with other persons known and unknown to the Grand
Jury, within the jurisdiction of the United States, to(a) provide material support and resources, that is, training, facilities, computer
services, safehouses, and personnel, to Al Qaida, a designated foreign terrorist
organization, in violation of Title 18, United States Code, Section 2339B; and
(b) provide material support and resources, that is, training, facilities, computer
services, safehouses, and personnel, knowing and intending that they were to be
used in preparation for and in carrying out a conspiracy to destroy property and
murder and maim persons located outside the United States, in violation of Title
18, United States Code, Sections 2339A and 956.
C. PURPOSE OF THE CONSPIRACY
7. The purpose of the conspiracy was to offer and provide facilities in the United
States of America for training of persons interested in violent jihad;..............."


----------



## slowp (Aug 15, 2009)

Well, that explains it. They weren't Warshingtonians, they were, 
:jawdrop:SEATTLEITES:jawdrop:

There's a difference.


----------



## cbolyard (Aug 15, 2009)

slowp said:


> Well, that explains it. They weren't Warshingtonians, they were,
> :jawdrop:SEATTLEITES:jawdrop:
> 
> There's a difference.



Couldn't agree more with you!


----------



## Tree Sling'r (Aug 15, 2009)

cbolyard said:


> So I take it you know Bly then?  There's a reason I don't live in SE OR anymore... I'm just glad we didn't have to live in Bly.



I lived in Bly for 7 month's in 94'-95'. I was working for Croman up Ivory Pine road and lived in the Buchannon cabin's right behind the new Chevron. I got drunk a lot, with the locals and Dj'd at Bud's Place on the weekends.


----------



## cbolyard (Aug 15, 2009)

Tree Sling'r said:


> I lived in Bly for 7 month's in 94'-95'. I was working for Croman up Ivory Pine road and lived in the Buchannon cabin's right behind the new Chevron. I got drunk a lot, with the locals and Dj'd at Bud's Place on the weekends.



Dang, small world! Getting drunk a lot while living in Bly... I think its actually a requirement to live there


----------



## Gologit (Aug 16, 2009)

cbolyard said:


> Dang, small world! Getting drunk a lot while living in Bly... I think its actually a requirement to live there



LOL...Also Covelo, Hyampom, Camptonville, Butte Meadows, and anywhere in Oroville. Nearly as I remember, anyway.


----------



## slowp (Aug 16, 2009)

Don't forget Wisconsin. Those vowel challenged people can drink!


----------



## bullbuck (Aug 16, 2009)

slowp said:


> Don't forget Wisconsin. Those vowel challenged people can drink!



there is a wis.transplant i drink with from time to time here,his motto"you gotta live along the way eh?"to that we crack another cold "barleypop"and yes he drinks me under the table and im no slouch


----------



## slowp (Aug 16, 2009)

Here's what they did with it. The big tree that is. 
http://www.inciweb.org/incident/pictures/large/1763/25/


----------



## bullbuck (Aug 16, 2009)

slowp said:


> Here's what they did with it. The big tree that is.
> http://www.inciweb.org/incident/pictures/large/1763/25/



hope they got it bucked clean on both sides,otherwise that operator has got a hell of a fight on his hands


----------

