# Sugihara and Tsumura vs Rollomatic ES



## StihlyinEly (Mar 24, 2010)

OK, I've done some searching and have read some threads that mention the Sugihara and Tsumura bars (and have read through the marketing hooha on Evilbay), but I'm looking for more perspective from folks who have run these brands of bars.

I'm talking three saw/B&C combos. All the B&Cs are 3/8 .050, with full comp, full chisel chains. An 026/16 inch, 038 Mag/20 inch and 460 Mag/25 inch. When the couple bars I have on order come in next week, I'll be running Rollomatic E or ES bars on all three saws (only non Stihl bar right now is a 28-inch Forester on the 460).

Now, honestly, is it going to matter much in my day-to-day cutting whether I'm running Rollomatic ES bars or Sugihara or Tsumura replaceable tip bars? Probably not. But I'd like someone with experience here to run us through any real performance differences. Including shipping, the Sugi bars are less via Evilbay than I'd pay at my local dealer for the equivalent ES bars.


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## TommySaw (Mar 24, 2010)

If you have a Stihl I see no reason to run anything other than Stihl bars unless price is a major difference. Tsumura bars are exceptional in fit, finish and quality as are Sugi's. I have been able to buy Total badged Tsumara Super bars for 2.50/bar inch which is a good price around here FWIW. The only problem I see with Sugi bars are where you have to get them and that they don't come in the Husky tail patern


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## mdavlee (Mar 25, 2010)

Some of the carlton bars that baileys had were made by tsumura. They were a good deal too. I don't know if they have any left in a size you want. The tsumura seem to wear good so far. I haven't put enough time on a oregon reduced weight to see how they wear.


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## DougNH (Mar 25, 2010)

I know from first-hand experience that both the ES and Sugihara are excellent quality, good steel, etc. The "E" bars are very average and after wearing one out fairly quickly several years back, I don't use or recommend them.

The ES bars are top-notch, but in 24" they are the heaviest bar of the four that I have weighed (stock GB Husqvarna, Carlton, Stihl ES and Sugihara)

The Sugihara bars have advantages, and disadvantages. They oil quite well and wear slowly. The large-mount bars work especially well on Stihl compared to Husky and others, since the bar slots are cut for Stihl (the others need to use spacers, which adds an insignificant bit of looseness). The downside with a reduced-weight bar is additional flex, which may or bother you in longer lengths of 28" or more. Up to 25" you probably won't notice any difference in stiffness, but you probably will notice the ~15%to 20% reduction in weight (NOT 29% as they claim), and better saw balance.

You might try a Sugihara to make a small, light saw a few ounces lighter (MS260). I use one on my 346XP. Another good reason to use one is with a bar that is slightly longer than optimal for best balance - depending on how it feels to you, the MS460 with a 25" might be a candidate. But for heavy daily use, you probably won't beat the ES bars for service life, with the possible exception of the more expensive Cannon/Woodland Pro bars.

I've never used Tsumura, but a close inspection of one reveals strong similarities to the Sugiharas, without the weight-reducing cutouts. I would not hesitate to used one, especially if they are cheaper than the Stihl ES bars.


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## StihlyinEly (Mar 25, 2010)

Thanks, Doug. I think I'll give the 20-inch Sugi a try on the 038 Mag. Should be a pretty good matchup, and might be a worthwhile weight difference, too. We'll see how the 25-inch ES bars feel on the 460. It has a 28-inch Forester pro bar on it now and is quite front-heavy. If the ES 25-inch is still too front-heavy to suit, I can look into the Sugihara equivalent.


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## DougNH (Mar 25, 2010)

I find that there is a big difference in nose-heaviness on a 70-80cc class saw going from 28" to 24/25". Not only is the 28 heavier, but its balance point is further out. The 25 is probably going to feel good on that saw. I wish I had a 460, but I don't think there's enough of a hole in my lineup in that size range.


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## StihlyinEly (Mar 25, 2010)

DougNH said:


> I wish I had a 460, but I don't think there's enough of a hole in my lineup in that size range.



Are you kidding, man? For the 460, you MAKE a hole! You aint' got CAD near bad enough. oke:  

I got a next-door neighbor who keeps us up until 3 a.m. by playing loud music and howling out his window. Think I'm gonna muff mod the 460 here pretty soon and get up at 7 a.m. and rack his sorry hungover ass out of bed. My woodpile is 20 feet from his bedroom window. Reckon the MM 460 will get his eyes as wide open as they can go. Sucks to be him. :chainsawguy:


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## kspakland (Mar 25, 2010)

StihlyinEly said:


> Are you kidding, man? For the 460, you MAKE a hole! You aint' got CAD near bad enough. oke:
> 
> I got a next-door neighbor who keeps us up until 3 a.m. by playing loud music and howling out his window. Think I'm gonna muff mod the 460 here pretty soon and get up at 7 a.m. and rack his sorry hungover ass out of bed. My woodpile is 20 feet from his bedroom window. Reckon the MM 460 will get his eyes as wide open as they can go. Sucks to be him. :chainsawguy:



Get him for me, too !!!!!!!!! I hate inconsiderate neighbors like that, and they need to learn a lesson.


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## MCW (Mar 26, 2010)

All good bars. I haven't had much to do with Stihls although I know a few guys that run them (a lot) with no complaints. If I had my pick though I'd go;

1) Tsumura
2) Sugihara
3) Stihl (because I don't own a Stihl saw and don't want to interbreed a Stihl bar on a Husky or Dolmar!)

Stihl are worth a fortune in our area but unfortunately a lot of anal folk will run nothing but Stihl bars on Stihl saws cause it looks perty. I don't care what a saw looks like as long as it works, unless it's a Stihl bar on a Husky or a Husky bar on a Stihl. Thats just wrong...
In saying that though the next bar I have to go on my Dolmar 5100-S is an 18" GB Hard Top labelled "Jonsered"  The paint won't last long though.


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## DougNH (Mar 26, 2010)

StihlyinEly said:


> Are you kidding, man? For the 460, you MAKE a hole! You aint' got CAD near bad enough. oke:



OK, then would somebody send me some new wedges so I can pry open a space between the Univent and the PS7900 :help:


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## Wild Knight (Mar 26, 2010)

StihlyinEly said:


> Now, honestly, is it going to matter much in my day-to-day cutting whether I'm running Rollomatic ES bars or Sugihara or Tsumura replaceable tip bars? Probably not. But I'd like someone with experience here to run us through any real performance differences. Including shipping, the Sugi bars are less via Evilbay than I'd pay at my local dealer for the equivalent ES bars.



Stihl bars seem to be the standard; I've run many and have been very pleased. However, you will notice that the sugi is much much lighter. It is built with good steel and seems to wear very well. Right now I run a 20" sugi and will soon be replacing it with a 25" sugi. In general, anything 25" and over I will be purchasing some type of reduced weight bar.


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## Naked Arborist (Jun 23, 2013)

Do you guys still hold the same opinion of these bars three years later now?


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## MCW (Jun 23, 2013)

Sure do. Nothing has changed from my point of view although the ES bars are definitely good bars but I'd still run a Tsumura or Sugihara if the same price.


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## DougNH (Jun 23, 2013)

Naked Arborist said:


> Do you guys still hold the same opinion of these bars three years later now?



Yes, I still like the Sugihara bars. The light weight makes it possible to use a bar that has some length to it but still balances well. The steel is good and the bars last a long time.


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## nmurph (Jun 24, 2013)

I have several Sugis and like them for their light weight and durability.


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## jonsered raket (Jun 24, 2013)

StihlyinEly said:


> Are you kidding, man? For the 460, you MAKE a hole! You aint' got CAD near bad enough. oke:
> 
> I got a next-door neighbor who keeps us up until 3 a.m. by playing loud music and howling out his window. Think I'm gonna muff mod the 460 here pretty soon and get up at 7 a.m. and rack his sorry hungover ass out of bed. My woodpile is 20 feet from his bedroom window. Reckon the MM 460 will get his eyes as wide open as they can go. Sucks to be him. :chainsawguy:



Knowing ely that seems odd, I thought everyone disappeared around 6pm up there . All 3 of those bars are good bars. I run alot of tsumura/total/jonsered bars and havent seen an issue. Sugis are excellent bars as well, love the fact their reduced weight bars dont flex like oregons. Dont know a whole lot about the es's but ive seen a few around and never heard anything bad about them. 
If it was my choice id get the 24 reduced sugi and dye the inserts to match that saw. 
Sent from my SPH-M820-BST using Tapatalk 2


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## MCW (Jun 24, 2013)

I know I've mentioned it before but just remember that the Sugihara Lightweight bars aren't actually that "lightweight" in the longer lengths. I weighed their 32" lightweight bars and they came in only 5% lighter than an 32" Oregon Powermatch Plus and GB Pro Top.
From what I've heard their shorter bars show higher weight savings than the equivalent lengths but in longer bars there is not much in it - I have a hard time justifying a bar costing twice as much for a 5% saving in weight in 32".


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## SawTroll (Jun 24, 2013)

Just be aware that Sugihara make a lot more bar models than the "lights" that have been commented on here. :msp_smile:

It doesn't seem to me that all are made to the same high standards?


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## OLDTIMER TECH (Oct 13, 2018)

Naked Arborist said:


> Do you guys still hold the same opinion of these bars three years later now?


Sugi hara and tsumura bars ,with proper use and service maintenance will last longer than any oem factory bars ,the extra cost will pay for itself very quickly, in my 39 years as a service tech and wood cutter, buy the best equipment you can and use extracare in fuel oil and service ,


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## Tigwelder83 (Nov 26, 2020)

kspakland said:


> Get him for me, too !!!!!!!!! I hate inconsiderate neighbors like that, and they need to learn a lesson.


Muff mod a monster, or find a hotsaw for firewood before noon... switch to an electric saw about 1 in the afternoon...


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## Orangeinthebarn (Nov 26, 2020)

On the 026 the Stihl 16 e bar in 3/8 picco with 63ps60 drive links is the fastest cutting set up on the 026. I’ve had many 026/260. Stihl bars are hard to beat. The Stihl es bars last a long time. If you are going to run a 20 inch on a 038 mag I would stay with Stihl es it’s not a lightweight saw anyway. The 24/25 is a good choice for the 460. I have a ported 044 12mm I run a 24 tsumura light and tough solid bar. It’s a very good bar.comstock logging has 20 inch tsumura for Stihl for 39 and 24 inch for 45 those prices are the best I’ve found. On a 50-60cc Stihl the regular e bars work just fine


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## r black (Nov 26, 2020)

WOW ..this is an old thread .......happy birthday its near eleven years old


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## Orangeinthebarn (Nov 26, 2020)

r black said:


> WOW ..this is an old thread .......happy birthday its near eleven years old


Haha


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## Jonny460 (Mar 22, 2021)

11 years old thread Stihl pretty funny, I say get a 460 do all your mods, use a bit extra oil take it outside fire it up on the woodpile exhaust aiming at his house and let it idle through a full tank for partial break in then fill up again after it fully cooled and do another heat cycle and at the end of the tank of gas just be gentle and easy and slowly no extreme high revs and help it break in some more, every tank a little more agressive. People claim idle is bad yes it can help buildups of carbon gain more traction but a good idle with decent oil really makes the rings seat into the bore and piston so nice, then give that neighbor some more higher power runs!!! Or do one tank in morning anther the next day and next day good cool off is highly recommended get to full temp let drop to ambient temp!


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