# Which dump trailer to buy?



## Sandhill Crane (Jul 29, 2020)

Put the flatbed up for sale and switching to a dump trailer.

I started doing a little research, following a couple hot shot hauling bloggers, figuring they have experience with a variety of trailer manufacturers.
Tow Piglet is one. And it sounds like none of the manufacturers really stands out from another.
Big Tex owns PJ and recently bought BriMar/BWise.

Texas Pride, Sure Trac and Load Trail are three I could go with.
Although Sure Trac is the closest to me (12 miles) I would have to order one (12-14 week wait), and no telescopic hoist option. They also seem to have the fewest axle options.
Texas Pride has a 2" square tube top rail, which seems a plus. But, I would have to drive eight hours one way to the Missouri outlet. Not out of the question, but sixteen hours is a cost factor also.
Load Trail has a lot of option, which is nice, but the options can easily add thousands, and most likely special order.

Tow Piglet points out that the trailer is simply a means to make money, and typically has gone the 14k route, under cdl, and parts available almost anywhere. Which he has proved to be necessary from the first month of ownership. The tires, brakes, drums, seals, axles all basically crap from the get go, and replaced repeatedly. Interestingly he has recently departed from the 14k set up, and gone to 8k torsion axles, and bigger tires. In part I expect from the cost of down time. But before a true test of the new set up and heavier components, his 'dog tracking' (my words) trailer snagged a barrier wall with a wheel. (I do like his thinking of an 16k trailer stickered for 14k, torsion axles, and light duty truck tires.) Parts would take four weeks. He had purchased extra brake backer plate and drums with the trailer, but had to have a new spindle made to get back on the road in two days time. The extra parts were in the two to three hundred dollar range vs less than one hundred for off the shelf 7k axle parts. 

However, I will not be hot shotting, or running more than several hundred miles a season.

I've loaded 14' dump trailers and found the max out at one cord loose thrown.
16' high side seems appropriate for two cords max. loose thrown (conveyor) volume wise, and 4k per cord seasoned oak, weight wise.
Do any of you run a high sided trailer?

My bumper hitch is rated 1,800 tongue weight, and 17k trailer weight.
The Kentucky 3500 Silverado dually was purchased used, and has a B & W gooseneck hitch, although the rating tag disappeared with two Michigan winters.
I've never pulled a gooseneck, and hate to rule it out. 
I question backing one up, compared to a bumper pull, whether it is easier or more difficult.

I guess I'm wondering if you bought an inexpensive trailer if you wish you had bought better quality, and vise versa.
If you spent a lot, do you regret that choice, or have you still had common issues.

As for tires, I'm thinking a set of light duty truck tires would be the first stop after picking it up from the lot, and skip the first month, three blow outs scenario.
I would like a telescopic hoist, and paint vs powder coat, but no one paints their trailers.


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## muddstopper (Jul 29, 2020)

I built my 6x10, not because it was cheaper, but because I couldnt find what I wanted. I needed a trailer that I could remove the sides and make a flatbed for loading pallets with a forklift. I wasnt thinking firewood at the time I built the trailer, but I have found the removeable sides come in handy when loading log lengths with a FEL. Strap them down and dump off when I get them home. Dumping logs has a advantage over rolling logs off trailer also. You can raise the dump enough to get the logs to slide down to the ground on one end and then throw a log under the load to keep the whole load off the ground for bucking. If I ever find the time to complete it, I have a hydraulic lift I want to mount on the tongue of the trailer to load whole logs with. I have the parts and have fabbed up most of whats needed, I just havent found the time.


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## Jhenderson (Jul 29, 2020)

First I’ve heard of PJ being sold. I own a 14 ft 18,500lb PJ GN dump. It’s the second PJ I’ve owned, 1st gooseneck. I really like the GN. If you’re looking to haul 2 cords On a 14K trailer it had better be dry. 2cords of long length( 12 ft) green mixed hardwood puts me at 16,500 or a little more. The 8K axles and 17.5 rubber give a little cushion. They also last a lot longer. I’ve got 9 years on this one using it at least 100 days a year on the original tires and brakes. My only complaint with mine is the powder coat. It started peeling the 2nd year. Now they offer primer which makes a huge difference. Be sure to either get tall sides or pick a bed design that lets you build stout sideboards. Mine are 2x4 oak with 5/4 oak boards and I still crack a board or post every so often with the log loader.


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## cantoo (Jul 29, 2020)

Have you consider making your flatbed into a dump? Trailers are often a pain to get into places. I have several dump trailers and my flatbed 3/4 ton truck is much handier.


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## cat10ken (Jul 29, 2020)

Cantoo is absolutely right. I got rid of my dump trailer and bought a low profile dump truck with landscaper body, that has fold-down sides. It's a lot easier to spot loads and used was cheaper than a new trailer.


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## T. Mainus (Jul 30, 2020)

I've been running a 8x14 PJ Deckover now for all of 7 years, rated at 14,000 lbs. Bought it lightly used but it has been running flawlessly for us, still has the original battery in it. There isn't any paint left on it but that is typical for these trailers. We delivered 130 full cords with it last year. Being a deck over it has the shorter sides that fold down so I can also use it for hauling material for the storage shed operation. I have hauled 2 full cords in it before but you have to put plywood on the sides and then stack it a little bit. I wouldn't recommend that to often. I have gotten 4 face cords in it without the plywood as well, but that is a load. We usually just dump in a full cord at a time and you hardly have to do any moving of the wood by hand. I have a divider system with stops blocks that allows me to load two face cords in the trailer at a time. We can do 2 different deliveries then with out having to run back to the shop. We have a hardwire that runs from the truck battery to the back of the truck that we plug the dump trailer in to that allows the truck to charge the trailer battery. I have done 10 deliveries in a day with it and never had the battery run low. Ours is a scissor lift, would recommend that over the 2 hydraulic cylinders. I wouldn't get a low pro style trailer, that why I like the deck over. It sits higher and the firewood dumps out a little better. If I was going to get a dedicated firewood trailer, probably get 16'er with a little taller sides so you could haul 2 cords if you had to. I probably only have 5 customers that order 2 cords at a time so you have to see if the larger trailer would be worth it. If your truck is set up for the goose neck I would go that route. Handles the weight better and they are easier to maneuver. Is the truck 4x4?

All that being said we are trying to find a dump truck for this seasons deliveries. When we get rolling I have to many deliveries to do so we were hoping to hire someone this year to try and keep up. I wouldn't trust anyone else to try and back in someones driveway with a dump trailer. We are looking for something like this.


Been trying to find a F450/550 with a 84" cab axle to have that style box fabbed on the chassis.

I watch that Tow Piglet guy, he's an idiot, take what he does and do the opposite and you'll be fine.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Jul 30, 2020)

As far as CDL or not with a trailer, that will vary on the state.

I used a 12k trailer for a couple years to haul 2 cords. Worked fine though switching to a truck with dump made it MUCH easier.

Best setup are a "pickup" with 12-14ft bed. Heavy spec'd 1 ton will handle it. Seems that the 1 ton cab and chassis trucks are built more HD than a regular pickup.
I know the 2 C30s and 1 F-350 I have handle ~5 tons in the bed without much fuss.
THOUGH, have come across a few F450s that were lightly sprung or something and were on the bump stops with only ~2 tons in the bed.

Even with the truck I get deliveries that are challenging. They'd be impossible with a trailer.




As an aside, I've never been able to do loose wood and felt confident I had the correct amount when measuring by cord - it's an estimate at best.

Interesting read on area where customers buy just a face cord at a time.


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## Jhenderson (Jul 30, 2020)

ChoppyChoppy said:


> As far as CDL or not with a trailer, that will vary on the state.
> 
> I used a 12k trailer for a couple years to haul 2 cords. Worked fine though switching to a truck with dump made it MUCH easier.
> 
> ...


CDL are federal laws. The state has no options. If you’re delivering a product and you’re over 26,000lbs truck or combined you need a CDL. 
Id really like to see a C30 or F350 with 10,000lbs in the bed.


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## FlyingDutchman (Jul 30, 2020)

Dumping flatbed. Save yourself the expense of buying and registering the monstrosity that is a dump trailer. In Illinois its almost unaffordable anymore to have a single axle homeade trailer. Registration went from $20 to 100 something. I know a heavy dump was over 100 before, afraid to even look what it is now.


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## Ryan'smilling (Jul 30, 2020)

I'll never own another PJ trailer again. Bought a 5 year old deckover about 4 years ago. Had it two years and then bought a truck set up for a gooseneck. I didn't like the way that PJ pulled anyway, so I bought a gooseneck and listed the PJ for sale. I lost $800 on that trailer because of the rust. The powder coat was coming off in sheets the size of washcloths. Painted trailers only for me for now on.


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## muddstopper (Jul 30, 2020)

When I built my dump trailer, I wasnt thinking firewood. I bought a new 4500 kodiac truck and had a flatbed built to tow my Hydroseeder with, and haul materials on. there where several times I just couldnt get into some steep areas pulling the loaded hydroseeder. Then there was always those dead end roads that you simply couldnt turn a truck and trailer around in. I finally cut the axles out from under the hydroseeder and mounted it on the truck, this created problems with storing materials to do the jobs and I ended up having to haul the material in the back of another truck. Two trucks, two drivers, twice the fuel. I built the trailer to haul the materials. With a hydroseeder, you are always running to find water. I could unhook the trailer at the water source, mix a load and go spray it out. When done hook back to the trailer and head home. The dump trailer has came in handy for many types of loads over the years, but I also know the value of hauling on the back of a truck versus pulling a loaded trailer. I traded the Kodiac for a F450 4x4 with a flatbed, this setup allowed me to get in some pretty steep areas, areas that I would have never gotten into pulling a trailer.


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## nathan4104 (Jul 30, 2020)

i have a Load Trail 6x10. bought it used. It's a 2012, someone changed an axle, now both sets of brakes are different! 
We are in winter salt country.... I had to blast and repaint the trailer last year. did it myself to the tune of around $2000 (sand ain't cheap and i used almost a pallet worth). powder coating was coming off in sheets. 
I have side boards added. I load with a conveyor, and count 180cu/ft of 16" as a cord. i probably give a bit away. 14" i lower it a bit, 18-20" i round it up a bit and no one complains. 
For us here a dump truck would require too much licensing and insurance to make it worthwhile for a small timer like me (~100 cord/yr). I pull the dump trailer with a tractor and skip all the licensing with a Slow Moving Vehicle Sign. All my deliveries are within 8 miles on average.


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## dave_dj1 (Jul 30, 2020)

The only advice I can offer is to look them all over really, really well and make your decision from there. I am building my own 6-5 x 12', 10K dump trailer because all of the ones for sale around here (50 mile radius) are built like crap! I can't even see how they can last a year much less more than that. They are built to a the bare minimum of engineering. I would rather give up a few pounds of cargo weight for a heavier frame that can take it long term.


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## Sandhill Crane (Jul 30, 2020)

I tend to over think stuff and stall out on making a decision if it involves any amount of money.
Paint: I have not come across one brand that is not powder coated. I did notice under PJ options...primer. Primer is an option! What does that say about competitive pricing? And, how would you know if you got a primed trailer from PJ?
Size: I figure four of my PackFix bundles is 1/4 cord plus a few cu. feet, and I will be loading with the conveyor. It comes out to 200+ cu. feet, loose, per cord for me.
Deckover, and gooseneck: I would really like to try a gooseneck before buying one. 
-Perhaps someone has a photo of a cord of firewood dumped from a deckover vs a low profile trailer. I have three customers that unload my flatbed with a tractor or skid steer and move the pallets to where they stack. One is behind a house, and another is in a pole barn. That's where a deckover would be nice, but it's only three customers. The seasoned pallets are about 1,000 pounds, and takes a forty to forty five horse tractor or bigger. 
Becks trailer sales in in central MI, about two hours from me. They carry several brands, but their advertising doesn't list prices.
If someone in MI can suggest a dealer, that would be helpful. Or a brand with paint. One brand did say automotive enamel, but I questioned if that could still be powder coat.

I like Tow Piglet. He does tear up a lot of stuff, but owns up to it and doesn't push it off on someone else.

The gmc 5500 is a 12' flatbed. It is DOT registered, cat diesel, remanufactured 6 speed trans., and expensive to keep on the road. About $2,500. per year. In Michigan trailer plates are a one time registration fee, and no road insurance required(I don't think).


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## Sandhill Crane (Jul 30, 2020)

Any thoughts on galvanized trailers?


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## sean donato (Jul 30, 2020)

Just remember any trailer licenced over 10k requires a class A cdl. Doesnt matter the state. We just got hit at work for that. Had our youngest boy who hasn't gotten his cdl yet hauling our mini hoe, machine weighs just shy of 12k lbs, trailer is rated for 14k. Cost a pile in fines. Wont be doing that again. 
For what it's worth, I borrow a friends 10k dump trailer occasionally. It's an Appalachian. 7'x16' its held up reasonably well, I dont care for the twin cylinders on it, sometimes as it lifts it kinds wobbles side to side, like the cylinders are binding somehow. Other then that it has held up well. Not used for any sort of production work, so ymmv


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## Jhenderson (Jul 30, 2020)

sean donato said:


> Just remember any trailer licenced over 10k requires a class A cdl. Doesnt matter the state. We just got hit at work for that. Had our youngest boy who hasn't gotten his cdl yet hauling our mini hoe, machine weighs just shy of 12k lbs, trailer is rated for 14k. Cost a pile in fines. Wont be doing that again.
> For what it's worth, I borrow a friends 10k dump trailer occasionally. It's an Appalachian. 7'x16' its held up reasonably well, I dont care for the twin cylinders on it, sometimes as it lifts it kinds wobbles side to side, like the cylinders are binding somehow. Other then that it has held up well. Not used for any sort of production work, so ymmv



Wrong! Any trailer over 10K when towed by truck grossing 26001lbs requires a class A cdl. Under 10 K with that same truck requires a class B . Trailer wt alone means nothing. You can haul a 14k trailer with an 11,999 truck all day long on a standard lic. Your driver was obviously over 26,000lbs. gross combined wt. Depending on your state you may be required to hold a DOT medical.


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## Sandhill Crane (Jul 30, 2020)

My truck is 12,800 gvw so anything over 12k is going to mean a cdl. I don't think getting a cdl going to be a problem. The expense is a cdl medical exam, drug test, and some fees. Dot registration of pickup. Not sure if trailer needs DOT registration or required annual inspections. The truck is personal use and will be, part time business use. I think magnetic signage is legal as long as it is on when doing business.


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## T. Mainus (Jul 30, 2020)

Sandhill,

My equipment trailer is a Midsota and that has a pretty decent paint job on it, not powder coat. They do make a nice dump trailer as well. 









HVO Series | Midsota Manufacturing


Our HE-Do series deck-over dump trailers




midsotamfg.com





This is what a cord of wood looks like in a 8x14 Deckover.


Probably 4 face cords on this one.

When dumping firewood you have to remember that it's not gravel. If your trailer is 14' long, your going to have a 14' long pile of firewood when your done.


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## sean donato (Jul 30, 2020)

Well, all I can say to that is we got pulled over wrongfully then. The truck gross weight is 11000lbs, the trailer gross weight is 14klbs, we were specifically told he was over weight for license, because the trailer was rated for 14k lbs the truck gcwr is under 26k lbs. Cost us close to $4k in fines. State laws may have come into play, I couldnt say for sure. The DOT cop, wouldnt let anyone take it that didnt have a class A CDL, when I got there to pick it up I asked him why that was? He told me, because the trailer grosses over 10k lbs, didnt say anything about the truck.


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## sevensandeights (Jul 30, 2020)

I have a fully galvanized trailer from N&N. 6x12 10k GVW because I didn't want to deal with any DOT issues. It easily carries a loosely thrown cord with 2x12 sideboards, which the trailer has built in pockets for. Three stage telescopic lift has dumped everything with ease (including 5 ton of 2B stone!).

Trailer is made in Montreal and sold all over Ontario. I drove to London Ontario to pick mine up (Action Trailers). Had to pay 13% Canadian tax but it was refunded to me 2 months later - dealer provides a form to fill out.


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## KiwiBro (Jul 30, 2020)

Sandhill Crane said:


> Any thoughts on galvanized trailers?


Isn't much else here. Like powder coating, a crappy galvanising job will be worse than no coating.


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## CaseyForrest (Jul 31, 2020)

Crane, 

Look into Diamond C and Lamar as well. I just picked up a Diamond C Gooseneck flatbed and the construction is outstanding. I wore out the research button and ended up getting this from Spencer, IN. Beck’s sells Diamond C but I refuse to give them any money. 

Gooseneck is going to not only handle loads better, but will allow you to carry more weight than a bumper pull because you can put more weight on the ball. My trailer is 14,000 but I can max out my trucks tow rating of almost 17,000 pounds because I can put 3300 on the ball. So if I place a load correctly, I can feasibly haul 17,300 with 5200 of that being the trailer. 

They are a little different to back up, some ways easier some not. It just takes some getting used to.


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## CaseyForrest (Jul 31, 2020)

I do have a Class A, it don’t “use” it anymore.


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## CaseyForrest (Jul 31, 2020)

So you could get a 12,000 dump trailer, be under cdl but still haul right up to cdl territory. Couple of magnetic dot numbers and you’re legal.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Jul 31, 2020)

The Kodiak trucks are kind of the red headed stepchild.
They have all the costs of a medium duty truck and stick out to DOT.

Where a 1-1.5 ton truck is gonna be cheaper and usually get the "it's just a pickup or farm truck" attention.


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## Jhenderson (Jul 31, 2020)

Does your state have different classes of non cdl licensing? I know Texas does. I imagine others do also. All you need to do is go to the FMCSA website for clarification on on the federal law. The officer charged you under the wrong statute. I’d be consulting an attorney to recoup my expenses.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Jul 31, 2020)

CaseyForrest said:


> So you could get a 12,000 dump trailer, be under cdl but still haul right up to cdl territory. Couple of magnetic dot numbers and you’re legal.



From what I understand, as long as the truck towing and trailer GCVWR is under 26k, it's ok.

IE, 19,000lb F550 would be limited to a 7k trailer.

I had thought as long as truck was under 26k GVRW it was ok. (Class B truck over 26k and over 10k trailer is a class A)


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## Jhenderson (Jul 31, 2020)

CaseyForrest said:


> So you could get a 12,000 dump trailer, be under cdl but still haul right up to cdl territory. Couple of magnetic dot numbers and you’re legal.



depending on your hauling circumstances you may not even need DOT numbers. If you stay within 150 air miles of home and don’t cross state lines some states don’t require them. If their not required it saves a lot of record keeping and fees.


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## CaseyForrest (Jul 31, 2020)

ChoppyChoppy said:


> From what I understand, as long as the truck towing and trailer GCVWR is under 26k, it's ok.
> 
> IE, 19,000lb F550 would be limited to a 7k trailer.
> 
> I had thought as long as truck was under 26k GVRW it was ok. (Class B truck over 26k and over 10k trailer is a class A)



Correct. It’s a combined gvw.


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## CaseyForrest (Jul 31, 2020)

Jhenderson said:


> depending on your hauling circumstances you may not even need DOT numbers. If you stay within 150 air miles of home and don’t cross state lines some states don’t require them. If their not required it saves a lot of record keeping and fees.



MI requires them if you’re running a commercial operation.


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## muddstopper (Jul 31, 2020)

The 10,000lb weight of the trailer alone does not constitute a CDL license requirement. The combined weight of truck and trailer exceeding 26,001lbs is what the rule is based on. You can pull a 12,000lb trailer with a truck that weighs 12,000lbs with a combined weight of 24,000lbs and not need a class a cdl license. If the combined weight is over 26,000lbs and the trailer is under 10,000lbs you would need a class B cdl, If the combined weight is over 26,000lbs and the trailer weighs over 10,000lbs you would need a class A cdl license. Some state may have different laws, but as per the Fed law, the 11,000lb truck with the 14,000lb trailer only had a combined weight of 25,000lbs. The DOT cop is wrong unless the PA rule is in addition to the Fed rule. I would seek my $4k back.


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## cat10ken (Jul 31, 2020)

His fine might have had something to do with the fact the kid driving was under 21 years old.


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## Sandhill Crane (Jul 31, 2020)

Also, if the truck has a commercial plate (as mine does) the truck needs to be licensed (plated) for the maximum sticker combined weight of truck and trailer.
My truck is plated at 22k. Truck and trailer exceeding 22k would be a weight violation.
I read on YouTube where this guy was ticketed and fined for improper registration. He fought it and won. The also re ticketed him for a weight violation (not the original ticket) and fined him after the fact, but the fine was much less.
Apparently it could have gone either way, depending on what he said to the judge. He was adamant the truck was properly licensed and registered.


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## DSW (Jul 31, 2020)

Definitely check out a gooseneck before you pull the trigger.


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## KiwiBro (Jul 31, 2020)

How about leave the firewood on the pallets and use a craned flatedeck for deliveries:



What happened to the tail lift truck and motorised pallet jack idea?


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## Sandhill Crane (Aug 1, 2020)

KiwiBro: It would take a larger truck than I have to haul firewood and the 6,500 pound piggyback forklift. Also, I have found that loading pallets requires cleaning the pallets with a broom to remove dirt and gravel that get packed or embeded so the pallets set firmly on the truck bed, and no debree falls off during transport. I have been using canvas socks with velco on each bundle, and double strapping the bundles. None of this is difficult, but does take a bit of time, perhaps 45-60 minutes to load/strap six bundles. I load two and strap so I can reach, before loading two more. Lots of on/off the forklift. I've been unloading by hand, moving the pallets to sweep the deck, again stacking empty pallets and strapping, and stuffing socks into duffle bags. Again, nothing difficult, but takes time. A delivery can take three hours empty truck to empty truck, and every piece is hand thrown off the truck. If a lift was used to unload, the pallets then become an additional expense to the customer, and an empty pallet for them to deal with. I have a few customers that unload with equipment. Some make an effort to save the pallets, some do not.


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## Jhenderson (Aug 1, 2020)

The reason for using a trailer in the first place is cost. Cheap registration, cheap Insurance if any cost at all in that regard. Most states consider it insured if it’s hooked to an insured vehicle. Then there’s no drivetrain to maintain, just lights and brakes. All of that makes a trailer far more appealing when you only run it 100 days a year or less.


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## Sandhill Crane (Aug 1, 2020)

We, Margaret and I, had four vehicles registered. Her newer car, I drove her old car, and the gmc 5500. A few years ago she retired and found a very nice older rv trailer. (It has torsion suspension axles, my only experience with them) We added a pickup we could both drive safely to tow it, and I wanted a one ton if I ever did use it for firewood, thinking maybe a dump insert for smaller fire pit loads, or a single pallet.
Now we are downsizing. Daughter has my car, and the gmc 5500 is going because of operating cost, and deliveries simply take too much time and effort. I'm also trying to increase the amount of firewood I do, which increases the amount of time spent on deliveries. The cost of operating the truck has out paced the volume of wood I do. Increasing volume helps with that, but again, it still takes too long. Have done that for several years, and now I'm done doing it that way. The plus was I often got to know customers a little while unloading.
I priced a landscape bed a couple years ago, around 10k. 
I could pay someone to add a hoist to what I have, but probably not cost effective labor wise. 
Michigan trailer (small trailer) registration is a one time fee/plate. No annual tabs. I think they call it a 'permanent' plate.
I expect to save over 2k a year in expenses making the switch, even with trailer tire/brake maintenance expenses. Pickup truck expenses may go up some additionally, but mostly general service/maintenance anyway.


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## KiwiBro (Aug 1, 2020)

Would anyone trust their deliveries to a general cartage contractor instead of doing the deliveries themselves? Someone who, because they are doing it year round, can justify a good set-up?

Would such an option, if it existed, cost too much?


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## Jhenderson (Aug 1, 2020)

Why is a trailer not a “ Good Setup”? Been running my present GN for 9 years. It’s 30 years since I first went to dump trailers. Never even once considered going back. Use it about 50- 100 days a year. I’ve never been anywhere I couldn’t get to the customers desired dump site. I’ve replaced the springs and hardware once In 9 years. That cost was about 1/3 of a years insurance on a truck capable of hauling the same load, which is two cords of green tree length firewood . How much money would I make after hiring that $200, two cord load hauled for me? You’re looking to fix a non existent problem.


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## KiwiBro (Aug 1, 2020)

Jhenderson said:


> Why is a trailer not a “ Good Setup”?


I'm not suggesting it isn't. I haven't the motivation to explain it and even if I did, would lack the manners to do so diplomatically.


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## Jhenderson (Aug 1, 2020)

KiwiBro said:


> I'm not suggesting it isn't. I haven't the motivation to explain it and even if I did, would lack the manners to do so diplomatically.



I dislike diplomacy. speak your mind.


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## Sandhill Crane (Aug 1, 2020)

I'd gladly supply a dump trailer, and load it, and pay a flat rate for someone to do deliveries. Scheduling with a customer and third party driver might be an issue. And maybe if something got bumped or hit, that might be a problem. But it is a thought.


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## motorhead99999 (Aug 1, 2020)

All I know is if you live somewhere where they use salt on the roads pick the one with the least amount of box tubing. I have fixed three dump trailers this year where they rot and rip the hinges off or where the cylinder mounts to the frame


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## sean donato (Aug 2, 2020)

Jhenderson said:


> Does your state have different classes of non cdl licensing? I know Texas does. I imagine others do also. All you need to do is go to the FMCSA website for clarification on on the federal law. The officer charged you under the wrong statute. I’d be consulting an attorney to recoup my expenses.





muddstopper said:


> The 10,000lb weight of the trailer alone does not constitute a CDL license requirement. The combined weight of truck and trailer exceeding 26,001lbs is what the rule is based on. You can pull a 12,000lb trailer with a truck that weighs 12,000lbs with a combined weight of 24,000lbs and not need a class a cdl license. If the combined weight is over 26,000lbs and the trailer is under 10,000lbs you would need a class B cdl, If the combined weight is over 26,000lbs and the trailer weighs over 10,000lbs you would need a class A cdl license. Some state may have different laws, but as per the Fed law, the 11,000lb truck with the 14,000lb trailer only had a combined weight of 25,000lbs. The DOT cop is wrong unless the PA rule is in addition to the Fed rule. I would seek my $4k back.


I'll be speaking to the manager about this monday. We (thought) we were good about such things with dot, as they like to slam you every chance they get around here. Trailer is perm plate. Truck was properly registered(as far as I know) DOT cop said (to me when I asked ) the kid couldnt pull it because the trailer was over 10k lbs, and he didnt have his class A cdl.


cat10ken said:


> His fine might have had something to do with the fact the kid driving was under 21 years old.


Hes actually just turned 22 a few months back. Has his permit since last year, couldnt get a test scheduled from the covid crazies closing penndot down for so long. At any rate well have to get the big bosses to look into it deeper. It was a costly mistake, that now doesnt seem to make sense. As I've had my class A for years, and years now this sort of problem never crossed my mind. Kids the first higher that didnt have his cdl.


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## Sandhill Crane (Aug 2, 2020)

My understanding, in Michigan, you can get a cdl at 18 for intra state. 21 for inter state.
And yes, Secretary of State is backed up.
My license is currently expired, although I did mail in for renewal.
And tabs on one car are expired and have not been able to clear up that mail in issue.
I got a DOT fine for not being registered with DOT, plus no fire extinguisher, no flares or triangles.
I told him I asked if registration was required when I got the title transferred, paid sales tax, and plated.
Secretary of State desk person did not know and asked a supervisor. Answer, NO.
DOT actually put up his hand and said stop. Secretary of State doesn't know. He did a road side inspection, which was good (I also had a current DOT inspection and stickers by a mechanic) and politely wrote me $500. in tickets.
DOT registration is free, but I had a guy do a nice door decal for name, town, and DOT number and a stripe. A few hundred bucks, plus triangles and fire extinguisher. Just re-registered for bi-annual, even though the trucks for sale, not plated or insured, to avoid fines.
It is overly complicated, and seems to be so on purpose to police for profit. I tried to comply at Secretary of State, and they don't know the rules, yet they issue commercial vehicle plates.
Edit: Again just my understanding, Class B cdl is for straight trucks over 26,001. If pulling a trailer under 10,000, the Class B is good. Straight truck over 26,001 and railer over 10,000, a Class A is needed. (as Mudstopper said) You may need endorsements for air brakes, hazardous material, or over 16 passengers. Farm plates is another matter.
Because my Chevy 3500 pickup is gvw at 12,800, I'm going to need a Class A cdl for combined gvw rating over 26,001 and some type of DOT registration for the pickup. 
Also, the pickup needs to be plated for the combined weight rating of truck and trailer.


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## Jhenderson (Aug 2, 2020)

I'd gladly supply a dump trailer, and load it, and pay a flat rate for someone to do deliveries. Scheduling with a customer and third party driver might be an issue. And maybe if something got bumped or hit, that might be a problem. But it is a thought.
[/QUOTE]

what do you think is a fair price for a man and truck capable of legally towing your trailer?


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## Jhenderson (Aug 2, 2020)

Sandhill Crane said:


> My understanding, in Michigan, you can get a cdl at 18 for intra state. 21 for inter state.
> And yes, Secretary of State is backed up.
> My license is currently expired, although I did mail in for renewal.
> And tabs on one car are expired and have not been able to clear up that mail in issue.
> ...



I got a bunch of grief when I showed up for my class A with my pickup and GN. When I finally asked if I needed a class A upgrade from my B to drive my combination they said of course you do. Well duh? That’s what you get when you outsource your testing to retired Teamsters. They don’t want any new licenses to begin with when they’ve got guys riding the bench at the union hall. What really threw them for a loop was when they tried to pull my air brake endorsement and I said they couldn’t. You can’t take something from me I’ve previously earned because I’m upgrading. That took about an hr at the dmv to straighten out.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Aug 2, 2020)

A 12 or 14ft dump bed on a 1 or 1.5 ton would alleviate much of that DOT headache.


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## Jhenderson (Aug 2, 2020)

ChoppyChoppy said:


> A 12 or 14ft dump bed on a 1 or 1.5 ton would alleviate much of that DOT headache.


 How does one legally deliver a cord of wood on a 1ton?


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## milkie62 (Aug 10, 2020)

I have a 7x12 BriMar dump trailer which I purchased new in 2008. Never seen salt and is never used past approx. Nov 1st or before the end of April. powder coating was coming off in sheets. My trailer has never been overloaded since it always goes on a scale at the gravel pit. The shackles are constantly wearing through and one day with 2 yds of topsoil on the shackles on one of the axles broke.Had to ratchet strap the axle and drive slowly home. talked to a guy about a custome built galvanized trailer. he has been in business for about 30 yrs and he said the galvanizing holds up excellent. Also he said on a dual axle trailer slipper springs are needed to alleviate the tearing of shackles. I am also going to have a log arch built on the rear of mine that is removable so I can winch logs into. Mine will be rated at 5k lbs but will have either 6k or 7k axles just in case .


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## Sandhill Crane (Dec 19, 2020)

I ordered a dump trailer Sept. 9th, and took delivery this Wednesday, fourteen weeks later as promised.
It's bigger than I pictured, and overkill for sure.
So far it is impressive, but time will tell.


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## Jhenderson (Dec 19, 2020)

What are the specs ?


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## babybart (Dec 20, 2020)

And the pics?


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## Sandhill Crane (Dec 20, 2020)

Jhenderson said:


> What are the specs ?


I'm guessing your asking me about the dump trailer.
16' high side; bumper pull; 15,400 gvw; just under 10k payload. So, 7k axles and max 1,400 tongue wt.
Generally tires or wheels are the limiting factor.
While waiting for the build I emailed the builder to know what the wheels were rated for, as I could not find a spec for them. They replied within three hours, 4060 pounds.
At some point I would like to upgrade the tires to Goodyear, US built Endurance, or a light truck tire.
I did not upgrade the axles/tires to 8k, for lack of need and cost. I would have liked bigger brakes and heavier duty tires, but I think as noted earlier, those parts are harder to find and lots more expensive per wheel, and 








did not upgrade the tires to heavier imports.
I did not did not order any options.
I ordered the trailer having never personally seen this brand. 
Had I seen it on the lot I'm sure I would have walked away from it and down sized. For one it tracks wider than the truck, which I never considered. Two, with high sides it's very big. I've loaded 14' dumps in the yard and had to heap them to get one cord loose thrown, so I went with 16' as many of my customers have ordered 1 1/2 cord, and would have ordered two, but that would mean an extra delivery with the previous truck. I think 16' high side could haul two cord, and seasoned weight of 4k per cord hardwood.
Several thing lead me to this choice. Or should I say dart game of choices. Originally it never made the short list, simply because of price. 
After reading comments here, emailing the box store trailer boys, adding up option costs on other trailers, and reading disheartening reviews on line about upgraded axles/wheels and only getting the wheels (discovered after ordering brake parts a year later); and stabilizer legs that had to be welded on after delivery! 
My first choice was Sure Trac, sold locally. 18 week lead time, and couldn't nail down a price for the trailer or shipping.
This made it back on the short list for a number of reasons, and is what I ordered; (milkie62 and motorhead99999 comments noted)


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## Jhenderson (Dec 20, 2020)

Nice looking rig. Any low profile trailer is going to track wider than your truck.


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## tla100 (Dec 20, 2020)

Sandhill Crane said:


> I'm guessing your asking me about the dump trailer.
> 16' high side; bumper pull; 15,400 gvw; just under 10k payload. So, 7k axles and max 1,400 tongue wt.
> Generally tires or wheels are the limiting factor.
> While waiting for the build I emailed the builder to know what the wheels were rated for, as I could not find a spec for them. They replied within three hours, 4060 pounds.
> ...



Man that trailer is close to my dream! Like the ramp/hinged back gate. Very nice for skidloader. Very clean looking and well put together.


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## Sandhill Crane (Dec 20, 2020)

It all looks good for now.
Milke62, post #52 on running gear; amd moterhead99999, post #45 on box tubing is a real concern.
Like I said, choosing is pretty much a dart throw.

We down sized one car and the medium duty truck.
Next step is a class A cdl.
And research DOT registration, and upgraded truck plates to cover weight of trailer.
I did get a 2 1/2" slide in Titan ball mount and 10k ball to use instead of the RV weight distribution ball mount.
I need to upgrade the ball to 16k.
I also want to get tire scissors chocks like we have for the rv, as I've heard it's not good to load equipment against the trucks automatic transmission in park. Rather in neutral with parking brake set to avoid sheering a pin.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Dec 21, 2020)

Sandhill Crane said:


> It all looks good for now.
> Milke62, post #52 on running gear; amd moterhead99999, post #45 on box tubing is a real concern.
> Like I said, choosing is pretty much a dart throw.
> 
> ...



I've never seen a parking pin sheared from something like that.

Using the parking brake while loading and unloading is more than what 90% of people do. 
I usually put my truck in 4wd. Took a ride once with the truck's rear tires off the ground and a 5 ton mini excavator on the trailer ramps.

Why are you needing a class A CDL?

Is your setup over 26,000 GCVWR?
Most 1 tons are 10k GVWR, so that allows for a 16k trailer.
I'd not go CDL route for a pickup and trailer unless absolutely necessary. It's a headache that'll likely turn into quite the rabbit hole.

Many trailer outfits derate trailers to 10k for that reason. A pickup and trailer wouldn't get a second glance around here unless it was very obviously overloaded.


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## Sandhill Crane (Dec 21, 2020)

Truck: 2011 Silverado 3500, drw, 12,800 gvw
Trailer: 15,400 gvw (although axles are 7k rated so there is some overlap)
Even without 1,400 pounds overlap it's over 26,001, by 800 pounds.
cdl shouldn't be a big deal.
DOT isn't either.
It's not the second look, it's if you get in an accident. 
The way people drive makes that a very real possibility.
And it doesn't matter who is at fault if your not legal.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Dec 22, 2020)

Sandhill Crane said:


> Truck: 2011 Silverado 3500, drw, 12,800 gvw
> Trailer: 15,400 gvw (although axles are 7k rated so there is some overlap)
> Even without 1,400 pounds overlap it's over 26,001, by 800 pounds.
> cdl shouldn't be a big deal.
> ...



Having a CDL unless needed is a hassle.
BAC is reduced to 0.04% in POV and 0.0% in CMV. 
Citations are kept closer track of.
Costs are higher for renewal plus a physical, that's $150-200 every 2 years, or more often if high bp, diabetes, etc.

Running the truck as class A will bring expenses and headaches and lots of weird grey areas.

You'll end up in the position where "by the book" you have to treat the pickup and trailer like it's a semi truck.
DOT number, log book, annual DOT inspection, pre trip log, IFTA, etc.
Insurance is tougher to find and expensive too.
Unhook the trailer and it's suddenly a regular pickup truck.
Good luck keeping it straight if truck is used for other than hauling that trailer.
If you stay local (150 air miles) you can run log book exempt, but will need to keep time card of your working hours and still follow DOT driving limits.
IE, legally can't work a 12hr day cutting wood and then go haul a load to a customer.

Pull into scales and you'll get yelled at, at least in my experience, even though by the book it's required.

A very TINY percentage of 1 and 1.5 ton trucks pulling over 10k trailers are doing it as a class A setup.
The rules are very much designed for a semi truck. And even then, if running a truck not full time, it's a PITA.


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## Sandhill Crane (Dec 22, 2020)

I completely agree.
And I've been pulled over by DOT and ticketed with the other truck.
With the times, meaning Covid's effects on the economy, you will probably see a rise in what is commonly called policing for profit.
My truck cleared road inspection, and I explained that the
Sec. of State office said, when I asked, that a DOT registration was not needed for me delivering firewood locally.
I did not get a warning, or a comply and wavier. 
I got $500. in tickets for failure to register with DOT, failure to have a fire extinguisher, failure to have emergency triangles.
Failure to have a cdl is a big fine.
I may skip the DOT
Not sure about the truck plates.
I'm 8.5% over 26k
If you consider the 1,400 gvw overlap of the trailer then I'm more like 3% over.
I think I'll email BWise and ask about the gvw and cgvw rating.
I'll never actually be over 26k in practice, just on paper.


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## rancher2 (Dec 22, 2020)

Crane nice looking trailer. Around my area you hook you 3/4 or 1 ton pickup on a trailer that has dual 7,000 pound axles and it starts to get tricky with DOT. I would also check with your insurance company now that your using this truck for more that pulling your RV. They may be able to guide you some on the rules. I run farm plates so that falls under a different set of rules and now in my state you can run farm plates on a semi and not need a CDL. I have always had a CDL since they were around. In my area DOT watches the lawn guys and such pretty close.


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## esshup (Dec 22, 2020)

Sandhill Crane said:


> Any thoughts on galvanized trailers?


The only way to go where you see snow and salt.


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## esshup (Dec 23, 2020)

motorhead99999 said:


> All I know is if you live somewhere where they use salt on the roads pick the one with the least amount of box tubing. I have fixed three dump trailers this year where they rot and rip the hinges off or where the cylinder mounts to the frame


The problem with c-channel frames is that they twist as they bend/flex. A box tube just bends/flexes, and doesn't twist. Less stress on the welds with a box tube vs. c-channel.


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## morewood (Dec 23, 2020)

That's a nice trailer you finally ended up with. We ordered a 14k 16'lp with a telescopic hoist and heaver gauge body. Got tired of fixing a friend's trailer just to use it. Should be in within a month. Went out of state and saved a couple grand. Ideally we would have liked a shorter trailer but my tractor with the grapple and winch should be just short enough to fit in there. Every trailer we looked at was nice, but some appear better. Ours is a Diamond C. We would have bought a Big Tex but the dealer couldn't get one in for over three months.

Shea


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## Sandhill Crane (Dec 25, 2020)

Bix Tex was on my list, but would have to pay shipping from Texas to Missouri, and then drive from southwest MI to Missouri.
I think it is Big Tex has the flared side option, along with the telescopic hoist.
Could have saved a lot on the BWise if I picked it up at a Pennsylvania dealer a few miles from the factory.
Figured I'd pass on a very long two day trip, meals, motel room, and fuel expenses.
Kind of closed the savings gap, significantly.
I ordered Sept. 9 and took delivery Dec. 16.
I wrote about my first delivery, but I think I deleted it before posting.
Long time customer bought wood elsewhere because I'm closed for the year, the entire year. They got a load of really wet wood. I wanted to load a cord, four pallets, to check my pallet quantity in a measurable space. So it worked out good for both of us. ( Measured out 16% heavy, which means I'll be stacking the first ten loads or more to get a good average. I have 112 cord based on four pallets/cord. On paper that's close to 130 cord.)
Their driveway is gravel, long, tight, and the last half, uphill with no place to turn a trailer around. Margaret rode shotgun and spotted me where the drive T's going straight, thru a 10' gate to the neighbors, and turns 90°, then uphill for 200'. I turned uphill, backed 90° blind side thru the gate, pulled ahead, backed 90° , then uphill in four wheel low. Margaret is better at backing our 27' bumper pull RV than I am. (I actually attribute that to her having the better spotter  )
I think I'm going to get an extra battery or power pack as I don't have electricity in the wood lot to charge the trailer, and the entire thing is electric/hydraulic; the jack, the gate, and power up/power down. For now I'm pulling the battery and putting it on a tender.
Deliveries used to take an hour to two hours hand unloading. I'm really going to like this ten minutes on site, and home.
The customer left a check on the wood shed, and sent us theses photos from the house.
I stayed away from the sandy area by the house with a 5,400 pound trailer and 4k load.


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## Yarz (Dec 25, 2020)

Sandhill Crane said:


> I think I'm going to get an extra battery or power pack as I don't have electricity in the wood lot to charge the trailer, and the entire thing is electric/hydraulic; the jack, the gate, and power up/power down. For now I'm pulling the battery and putting it on a tender.


Have you looked into/used a solar battery tender? If so, I'm interested to hear your thoughts. I've been meaning to look into them because I have a couple vehicles that sit more than they're driven.


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## Sandhill Crane (Dec 25, 2020)

I have not looked to see what is available in solar.
It would have to be a tender, so as not to cook the battery.
We do not have solar on our RV. 
Some of the YouTube videos show systems that would cost several thousands of dollars.
I do not know if a backup suitcase generator would power the dump, or just send a trickle charge thru the battery tender.
If I recall Honda makes a small 12v generator. Friends bought a sailboat years ago that came with one.
Lots to check into.


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## nathan4104 (Dec 25, 2020)

You can get a solar panel with a charge controller for pretty cheap nowadays (a 60watt or 100 watt panel would be more than enough and the controllers that come are made to ensure the battery does not overcharge) but that part is a whole other thread....
I try to carry a spare battery and jumper cables with me just in case.... 
I also rigged a set of cables (4ga) from my truck battery to the trailer battery (through a solenoid and 40a breaker) that will charge it and put some good power to it.
One other trick I saw someone do is to have some extra hydraulic plumbing so you may disconnect the ‘down’ line from the pump and put it into the tank so you may drop the box without power. (Unless it’s a single acting setup already!) Usually you’ll struggle to get it up and dumped then not have enough juice to lower it, that usually happens at the municipal dump with a line up of people waiting for you to move....


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## FlyingDutchman (Dec 25, 2020)

Some solenoid valves have a manual override, and if you don't have one not hard to add if a name brand. You just press the manual button on top of the valve stem and it should lower it. Many of them have that. Hard if the pump is under the dump box though.


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## Jhenderson (Dec 25, 2020)

The trailer should charge from the 7 pin umbilical cord. While it won’t charge like a battery charger, it will do more than a solar unit. I sometimes make as many as 5 deliveries a day with less than an hr between each delivery and have yet to run out of battery.


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## esshup (Dec 25, 2020)

Jhenderson said:


> The trailer should charge from the 7 pin umbilical cord. While it won’t charge like a battery charger, it will do more than a solar unit. I sometimes make as many as 5 deliveries a day with less than an hr between each delivery and have yet to run out of battery.



I rented a dump trailer earlier in the year to bring wood in rounds from a customers place to mine. I made 10 trips in one day (12 miles each way, had a grapple bucket on the tractor to load the trailer) and never ran out of juice. A buddy has a dump trailer and has the battery hooked to the truck's charging system via the 7 way plug and he says he has never ran out of battery.


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## sean donato (Dec 26, 2020)

I think most of the break away systems have a current limiter built in nowadays, 14 amps or so. Should give plenty of charge for moderate use if hooked up like this. I have a 12k lb winch on my trailer, 2 group 31 batteries in the box, and generally dont have an issue dragging logs up and on letting them charge wile I'm on my way, or letting it run for a wile in between hard pulls. I cant imagine it would be terribly different for a hydraulic unit, should keep up fine, the way I see it.


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## Sandhill Crane (Dec 26, 2020)

I've downloaded the owner's manual, but it is generic, and I've just skimmed it so far. Enough to know it's worth an in-depth read.
It is somewhat frustrating that it is not more specific, or a trailer build spec sheet isn't supplied with each order. 
For example, the Dexter axle section. Do not lift trailer via the suspension or axles, yet there are no lift points noted that I'm aware of yet.
Have not read the pump/charging section yet.
It's a 5,400 pound trailer, and box tubing frame. 
Lot's to learn. They do talk about compatible grease.


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## rancher2 (Dec 26, 2020)

Sandhill Crane That one ton Chevy looks to be home on that new dump trailer. Years ago when I sold wood the dump trailer I used to haul wood in didn't even have a battery on it I just had a long piece of welding cable on the trailer hyd power unit and hooked it to the pickups battery worked great. Later I put a battery on it and left the cable on the trailer in case the battery was dead you could just hook up the cable. I think you find your 7 way RV plug will kept the battery charged up.


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## milkie62 (Jan 10, 2021)

ChoppyChoppy said:


> I've never seen a parking pin sheared from something like that.
> 
> Using the parking brake while loading and unloading is more than what 90% of people do.
> I usually put my truck in 4wd. Took a ride once with the truck's rear tires off the ground and a 5 ton mini excavator on the trailer ramps.
> ...


I do not ever plan on overloading mine with gravel pit material since the loader has a scale built into the bucket and I am weighed. And wood on the other hand will be mostly thrown in so max should not be reached. Just wanted the bigger axles just in case a short haul wood load. Also I want the arch in case I get a mill I can winch logs in.


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## Sandhill Crane (Jan 10, 2021)

In the photo above I was on a hill. Having put it in park, it made a rather large pop pulling the automatic shifter into drive. I'll be using the parking brake next time, and leaving it in neutral to dump.
And looking for some wheel chocks to have along. We have X chocks for the RV but that's not practical for this application.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Jan 10, 2021)

Sandhill Crane said:


> In the photo above I was on a hill. Having put it in park, it made a rather large pop pulling the automatic shifter into drive. I'll be using the parking brake next time, and leaving it in neutral to dump.
> And looking for some wheel chocks to have along. We have X chocks for the RV but that's not practical for this application.



You aren't dumping while in the driver's seat?


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## Sandhill Crane (Jan 10, 2021)

ChoppyChoppy said:


> You aren't dumping while in the driver's seat?


No. Not with a bumper pull trailer.
Get out and release lower tailgate pins, and activate pump to raise tailgate.
Then a lever is switched in the control box on the tongue, from auxiliary to dump. (Auxiliary mode redirects from dump to a second lever to choose tailgate or tongue jack.)
Once the proper setting is manually chosen, pump activation is with a remote fob.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Jan 10, 2021)

Sandhill Crane said:


> No. Not with a bumper pull trailer.
> Get out and release lower tailgate pins, and activate pump to raise tailgate.
> Then a lever is switched in the control box on the tongue, from auxiliary to dump. (Auxiliary mode redirects from dump to a second lever to choose tailgate or tongue jack.)
> Once the proper setting is manually chosen, pump activation is with a remote fob.



So you dump the trailer and then what?


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## Jhenderson (Jan 10, 2021)

You’re kiddin, right?


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## Sandhill Crane (Jan 10, 2021)

ChoppyChoppy said:


> So you dump the trailer and then what?


I smile!
So much easier than unloading the flatbed by hand.
Had a flat on the piggyback forklift Friday.
They are basically skid steer tires, Galaxy Hippo's.
I couldn't lift it to get it in the pickup, and there were logs on the forks, so that was out.
Hooked up the trailer, dropped the hydraulic ramp, and off to the tire shop.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Jan 11, 2021)

So 2 or 3 cords of wood, or logs, comes out without having to pull forward?

I rarely lift my dump bed all the way up without pulling forward when loaded with wood. No reason to put the weight up any higher than needed.

Raise bed until wood is coming out, then it's raising while pulling forward until it's empty.

Almost flopped a truck twice so far, out of thousands of loads.
Once it started tipping but settled and I got the bed lowered.
2nd, it tipped but the headboard hit against a tree so it stopped it. Was ok other than it put a bit of twist in the bed.
Ideally dumping on flat ground, but that's often not an option. Have had to use firewood to make a ramp under a drive tire to get it up a foot or so to level the truck a bit. Or even hand unload.
The steep driveways are a pain, a few bad enough that the bed all the way up wasn't steep enough to dump the wood out.
Or the other way, where wood is falling out before even dumping.


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## Sandhill Crane (Jan 11, 2021)

Ah, I misunderstood. 
Yes, of course I had to pull way, way forward.
As someone here said 12' for a 12' trailer.
This one is 16' and that is close to how far I pulled ahead for only one cord.
The trailer has drop axles to lower the deck height for the ramp, so probably the worst for dumping.
The dump spot was flat, but the truck was going slightly down hill, then more so as I pulled ahead.
There are some long term customers that will definitely be an issue with both level side to side spots and bushes with this truck, which is my daily driver. No intension of scratching it up for a few bucks worth of firewood. Sprinklers along driveways are going to be a big one too, and staying on the drives with this size trailer. I am already thinking a year ahead to an additional smaller trailer. A Dump Dog insert would work but I'm not there yet unless I added a beater one ton truck. Have to kick up my volume for any of that. Which leap frogs to a processor.
I have been on jobs where two dump trucks tipped over sideways, one on a foreman pickup, and one utility boom truck setting a transformer. Rain day, the outrigger sank in soft wet clay, despite pads. Brand new truck too. The wrecker drug it sideways ninety degrees to get it parallel to roll it up. What a mess. 
We have some Lego style leveling blocks for the RV, and maybe a 2" x 12" x 8' plank for a base beneath them. I'll be getting a couple Lego kits for the dump trailer and possibly a kit with phone app that tells how much out of level a trailer is. Floor of the bed lifts approx. 11' at full height, plus height of bed when down which is 28" or 32", something around there.
I could use a back up camera, and maybe a construction vehicle flashing LED light kit for truck and trailer, for backing in from busy roads considering how people drive and tempers flash.
For now, my focus is free hand sharpening. Something I've never attempted. 
Always used jigs of some sort. Having mixed results hand filing, but some are very encouraging. Initially I thought I was getting really sharp. But the edge was gone in ten cuts. I'm doing better now, bigger file, adjusted top cut angle for winter hardwood. Watching Buckin Billy Rae and some Ironhorse on YouTube. Between east and west coast, my cuts are improving over the Stihl 2-1. I heard Billy Rae say those three stroke guys.... That's me! I had become complacent relying on the 2-1. I only did a 1/4 cord yesterday, but cutting put a big grin on my face. 
So, not all improvements cost thousands of dollars, or the newest, latest saw. Although that's fun too.
And adding to that. I got the 357xp off the shelf and filed it as well. The 562 and 357 have the same set up, 18" bar, full house, full chisel. So as off today, I'm running both saws.
Getting long winded again and side tracked...
Enjoy your day!


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## Sandhill Crane (Jan 11, 2021)

ChoppyChoppy said:


> I rarely lift my dump bed all the way up without pulling forward when loaded with wood. No reason to put the weight up any higher than needed.
> 
> Raise bed until wood is coming out, then it's raising while pulling forward until it's empty.
> 
> Almost flopped a truck twice so far,


Thanks for the tip, and real world reminder...
Greatly appreciated!


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## MirekTrees (Jan 11, 2021)

T. Mainus said:


> I've been running a 8x14 PJ Deckover now for all of 7 years, rated at 14,000 lbs. Bought it lightly used but it has been running flawlessly for us, still has the original battery in it. There isn't any paint left on it but that is typical for these trailers. We delivered 130 full cords with it last year. Being a deck over it has the shorter sides that fold down so I can also use it for hauling material for the storage shed operation. I have hauled 2 full cords in it before but you have to put plywood on the sides and then stack it a little bit. I wouldn't recommend that to often. I have gotten 4 face cords in it without the plywood as well, but that is a load. We usually just dump in a full cord at a time and you hardly have to do any moving of the wood by hand. I have a divider system with stops blocks that allows me to load two face cords in the trailer at a time. We can do 2 different deliveries then with out having to run back to the shop. We have a hardwire that runs from the truck battery to the back of the truck that we plug the dump trailer in to that allows the truck to charge the trailer battery. I have done 10 deliveries in a day with it and never had the battery run low. Ours is a scissor lift, would recommend that over the 2 hydraulic cylinders. I wouldn't get a low pro style trailer, that why I like the deck over. It sits higher and the firewood dumps out a little better. If I was going to get a dedicated firewood trailer, probably get 16'er with a little taller sides so you could haul 2 cords if you had to. I probably only have 5 customers that order 2 cords at a time so you have to see if the larger trailer would be worth it. If your truck is set up for the goose neck I would go that route. Handles the weight better and they are easier to maneuver. Is the truck 4x4?
> 
> All that being said we are trying to find a dump truck for this seasons deliveries. When we get rolling I have to many deliveries to do so we were hoping to hire someone this year to try and keep up. I wouldn't trust anyone else to try and back in someones driveway with a dump trailer. We are looking for something like this.View attachment 845580
> View attachment 845581
> ...


Nice design. Hows it working since July 2020? Any repairs needed or smooth sailing?


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## Sandhill Crane (Apr 14, 2021)

Update: Some photos and comments after a few delivery runs, and hauling a compact tractor with back blade.
16'; tagged 15,400 gvw. No options ordered.
Hooking up is pretty easy. There are fender marker lights visible that help aide lining up. The trailer is wider than the truck. I have hooked it up by myself once without issue. Generally Margaret is around and helps spot me. The 16' part is very nice so far. Even in a very difficult delivery spot, the length makes backing quite easy. And it tows well, although so far all very light loads. The compact tractor w/fel and back blade had only inches to spare with bucket flat. Being high sided, not much option for anything that's over length. Tie downs are spaced oddly. There are six, two front and two rear. The mid points are forward of center due to wheel wells and fenders. It does allow a small load to be centered over axles and strapped. The tailgate ramp is delightful for equipment, especially unloading, and personal access. The back blade barely rubbed the drive when loading. This could be avoided by adjusting attachment height, or raising trailer jack. The diamond plate covered pump box, tongue and supported fenders are very solid for standing on, viewing load, or accessing back of truck without worry of any spot being to flimsy or damaged by stepping on it.. There are numerous grease zerks, in all the expected areas, lift, lift tailgate, suspension. The suspension bracket between axles is gusseted, and slipper springs are used. The box floor framing is pocketed for the scissors hoist, and top of hoist design seems to support this floor area when not raised. I imagine you would not want to drop concrete or heavy loads there however, as a precaution to the rod packing. But I could be wrong. The spare matches the wheel set, and has steel inserts to combat loosening lug nuts sometimes associated with aluminum trailer wheels. The tires and wheels supersede the gvw requirements, and seem significant. The tires are industry standard, imports. The spare is also accessible without raising the box. There is a very long cabled control allowing full access to rear of trailer and then some. One concern is that this controller does not have an on/off switch. Therefore, when traveling I have placed the hydraulic mode selector on axillary/tailgate because the tailgate locks. If a button was inadvertently activated the pump might run, but the tailgate is locked down and pinned vs the dump function which could theoretically raise the box when traveling. There is also a fob to run the pump. The location of the antenna on the pump box makes for spotty reliability. I would like to relocate the antenna to the rear of the trailer through the main frame. There are wiring access areas. Lastly, I initially was going for the highly visible green paint option and decided on black because of industry wide poor quality paint preping, thinking a green trailer with rust streaks from chips could soon be rather ugly. The paint has some road chips from my usage, and those have quickly rusted. It's a tool and going to be used. We will see what it looks like in a year. Another small note is that it is a noisy trailer moving in the wood lot, as the high sides allow folding down, there is a small bit of rattling. A huge positive to date is the very easy to use tarp system. Two bungees, and slight lift on the hoop, then some back pressure to avoid slamming on retract. Two bungees to secure. Love that when delivering. 
I have adopted the Japanese style "point and speak" system. I use this a lot as a double check of myself, pointing, and verbally saying what I'm pointing at, after hooking up the trailer. Hitch latch/pinned, emergency brake...connected, safety chains crossed/connected, lights/brakes...connected. Same at customers. Overhead limbs/wires...point and speak. 










.


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## Sandhill Crane (Apr 14, 2021)

I've upgraded the ball receiver, replacing the 2 1/2" sleeve adapter with a 2 1/2" ball mount, and higher gvw 2 5/16" rated ball. 18k or something. It was hard to find off the shelf.


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## CaseyForrest (Apr 14, 2021)

I would recommend hitting the inside of any of the tubes that you can with fluid film.


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## Sandhill Crane (Apr 14, 2021)

What is fluid film?


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## CaseyForrest (Apr 14, 2021)

FLUID FILM | Powerful Corrosion Protection & Lubrication


FLUID FILM® is Eureka’s own unique lanolin-based brand of corrosion preventive and lubricant, used worldwide in a multitude of industries and applications.




www.fluid-film.com





Its basically a wax that creeps like oil/grease but never dries out.


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## rancher2 (Apr 15, 2021)

Crane You may want to look at putting a Rock Tamer mud flag system on your pickup to protect the front of your trailer. I have a home made version I run on my pickup. I pull a lot of gravel roads. One on my trailers I pull a lot of miles I even put aluminum diamond plate on the front of the fenders and on the front of the trailer to protect it. That trailer gets pulled on gravel all spring till fall ever year. It gets sandblasted from gravel.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Apr 15, 2021)

rancher2 said:


> Crane You may want to look at putting a Rock Tamer mud flag system on your pickup to protect the front of your trailer. I have a home made version I run on my pickup. I pull a lot of gravel roads. One on my trailers I pull a lot of miles I even put aluminum diamond plate on the front of the fenders and on the front of the trailer to protect it. That trailer gets pulled on gravel all spring till fall ever year. It gets sandblasted from gravel.


My Dad made his own for hauling their camper.
Had maybe $50 of materials, the mud flaps being most of the cost.


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## Sandhill Crane (Apr 15, 2021)

We watch Keep Your Daydream, an RV YouTube channel. They used the Rock Tamer on a trip to Alaska.
We did add WeatherTech (spelling) mud flaps all the way around on the truck. And last year did some light gage diamond plate on our 2005 RV. The propane clam shell was an odd duck. Half in the trailer, half out design. The plastic uv fatigued and I could not find a replacement. The manufacturer was bought out, and the production building converted to fire and ems unit production. I did some repairs and diamond plated the lower front, gluing it on. Moved the propane and battery forward.
Doing some cabinet repairs today. 
If the dump trailer needs repainting in a year or two I'll probably go that route. I bought it not expecting much in the way of paint. So far firewood sales are pretty flat.


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## cantoo (Apr 15, 2021)

I bought this last week just to have around to pull the tractor on my bigger trailer. I'm planning on putting a dump hoist on it when I have time. Likely have it for sale while I use it and if it sells then on to the next one. I want a 4x4 one and maybe diesel. Bidding on one right now but likely going to go for more than I want for all the use I will have for it.


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## Sandhill Crane (Apr 21, 2021)

With extension forks I can hold the load above the tailgate and walk completely around it, to stack in trailer. I don't have to move the splitter to access the conveyor. Then return the conveyor to it's processing spot. That worked also, but added set up time for each delivery. This works very well.
Our son rented a walk behind Bobcat and cement mixer for a deck project. We hooked up the quad to the mixer and drove it in/out. The axle on the mixer being much wider than the quad. Not an issue with the full ramp. Very happy so far with this choice. I've had home owners spot me to avoid sprinklers and narrow gated drives. So far no problem. One owner wanted it dumped in the road and I said no. It was a private road, but no just the same. We got it in his driveway first shot. There are blind spots with a high sided dump trailer. Just have to get out and look more often. Your gas mileage will vary...
We ran short of cement and picked up eight 60# bags and set them on the rear of the trailer. Big difference, even though the tail overhang is quit short behind the axles and the trailer is 16'.
I am so happy with this trailer, after having second thoughts after ordering it.
It's my first utility trailer, so honestly, I'd be happy with any of them, but I really like the full width ramp.
Edit: photos added, 2/3 cord stacked in trailer.
Edit #2: I wish it had more tie downs in the box.


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## Sandhill Crane (Apr 21, 2021)

ChoppyChoppy said:


> I rarely lift my dump bed all the way up without pulling forward when loaded with wood. No reason to put the weight up any higher than needed.
> 
> Raise bed until wood is coming out, then it's raising while pulling forward until it's empty.
> 
> Almost flopped a truck twice so far, out of thousands of loads.


16' high sided box can lift pretty high. I'll have to measure it when empty.
I found stacking two rows 82" wide and 28"- 29" high x 2 is one third cord. The sides fold down at 28" so that's what I've been stacking to, and works out well. I could probably stack near 2 cord without stacking over 28" high. 12x 16" = 192 which is length of trailer. I guess the last row would be scattered on top of the others. It keeps the load pretty low.


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## Sandhill Crane (Apr 22, 2021)

Delivery went well.
I really love the sound of dumping seasoned wood.
Sounds like a bowling ball knocking down a strike.


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## Sandhill Crane (May 3, 2021)

One and a half cord load.
The old way, and the "more gooder" way.
Most firewood vendors around here use dump trailers or one tons with landscape dump beds.
When I bought the GMC 5500 flatbed we did not have a pickup, and this was affordable. It worked pretty good for many years. However, it cost about $2,000. to $2,500. a year in plates, maintenance and insurance. Loading and unloading were very time consuming. Especially unloading by hand. Strapping the load would make removing the yellow socks, used as load containment when transporting, difficult at times. I carried a 2" x 4" and long pry bar to shift the pallets apart. Strapping two pallets at a time, in order to run the straps, then up/down for two more, etc. It also required cleaning gravel and leaves from the bottom and inside of pallets with a broom. All very easy, but lots on on/off the forklift to load. Then stopping in route to tighten straps due to settling wood.


Opps...

The new way. Five of the seven rows loaded.

They wanted it dumped in two piles. 2/3 ended up in the second pile.

Wrapping up the control cable to pull ahead. There is a fob, but it doesn't always connect to the antenna so I don't bother using it. Yesterday our son gave me two magnetic hooks. One for the front and one for the back of the trailer to hang the yellow control box on. Very handy when using the tailgate ramp mode when loading.
16' box gets pretty high. Lower end of box is only inches off the ground.

Sweet! What's not to like?
I used to spend a lot of time loading and unloading. Stacking takes a little time but I don't mind it. I calculated the cubic inches in a cord and a half. The trailer is 82" wide and the firewood 16" long. Seven rows 36 1/4" high. Snapped a chalk line on both sides, layed out seven pieces along the edge for seven rows, for a balanced load on the truck and trailer.

With the tailgate in horizontal position, I can walk around the bundle to unwrap the netting as I stack in the trailer. The bundle is suspended above the tailgate. Works very, very well. The mess for the most part stays home, and the pallets get stacked to reuse.

Why stack in the trailer? The numbers. The bundles are 1/4 cord plus. The plus part... is about 15% over a cord for four pallets. At four hundred pallets, 100 cord, that 15% stacks out to fifteen cord. I have about 120 cord, so that's 18 cord more when stacked, which is basically a semi load. A semi load of logs, or 20 cord load of logs yields 16-18 cord, cost to me $2,100. In the cord and a half load pictured, 15% over would be almost 29 cu. ft. or .225 cord overage. At $300./cord that's $67.50 worth of sellable wood, previously given away when sold in pallet form. More than that, the customer can now see they are getting the full quantity that they are paying for. The old way, they just had a pile of wood and no context to compare too. So even though they got more, 115% actually, they were still uncertain they were getting enough. Kind of a lose/lose for both buyer and seller.

I took delivery of the trailer in Dec. Just beginning to really use it for firewood and our sons deck project, hauling equipment and materials.
I am really happy with this decision after some initial second thoughts about cost. As things get more repetitious, as processing and deliveries both via for my time and energy, I'm predicting I'll like it even more. And in a couple years the cost factor will seem less relevant, like the Thule atv pull behind tandem axle trailer that was $1,200. twelve years ago. There is already a savings over using the larger dedicated firewood truck. How much depends in part on how much additional maintenance the ten year old pickup requires.


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## sean donato (May 6, 2021)

Glad your enjoying your new trailer.


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## rancher2 (May 6, 2021)

Sandhill That's one sweet trailer. I have always felt like a dump trailer is just as handy as a pocket on a shirt. I wouldn't be without mine around the farm.


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## Sandhill Crane (May 6, 2021)

It is hooked to the truck more days than not.
Two cord delivery yesterday, and the same tomorrow.
Margaret does go on many of the deliveries that are repeat customers and I know their driveways are tight.
With the old truck I could get turned around in tight spots without any help. But I don't miss the big truck at all.
Two cord stacked works well. I don't think two would fit without stacking.
If the rain lets up to finish loading I may hit the scales to see what the hitch weight is loaded.
Edit: Two cord is nine rows stacked 37 1/2" high. With some variation in split length it stretches out to almost the length of ten rows, or over thirteen feet stacked.


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## Sandhill Crane (May 6, 2021)

Added note:
I emailed BWise this morning about removing the rear tie downs, asking if the bolts were threaded into a fixed insert, or if it was loose, making for difficult reconnection.
I received a reply within two hours that the D-rings are threaded in, and should not be an issue with reattachment when needed.
That's customer service!


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## sean donato (May 6, 2021)

rancher2 said:


> Sandhill That's one sweet trailer. I have always felt like a dump trailer is just as handy as a pocket on a shirt. I wouldn't be without mine around the farm.


Just recently being a co-owner of a dump trailer I feel the same way. From logs, to dirt, to now full of shingles from the house roof, I don't know how I lived without access to one.


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## Sandhill Crane (May 6, 2021)

Dump trailers are becoming almost as common as four door pickup trucks.
The young bucks on here have probably never seen a two door pickup truck, or a gas station that serviced cars and had a jeep cj with a snow plow and jumper cables for service calls. My first car was a '53 Ford two door with a sun visor, vacuum windshield wipers, and a positive ground battery and generator. It also had an oil bath air filter. Wait, that may have been the '51 Ford one ton pickup with split rims, and no syncros. Had to double clutch it up and down. Well, first gear anyway. After that you could get by with out the clutch, until you missed a gear and had to all but stop and start over.


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## sean donato (May 7, 2021)

Sandhill Crane said:


> Dump trailers are becoming almost as common as four door pickup trucks.
> The young bucks on here have probably never seen a two door pickup truck, or a gas station that serviced cars and had a jeep cj with a snow plow and jumper cables for service calls. My first car was a '53 Ford two door with a sun visor, vacuum windshield wipers, and a positive ground battery and generator. It also had an oil bath air filter. Wait, that may have been the '51 Ford one ton pickup with split rims, and no syncros. Had to double clutch it up and down. Well, first gear anyway. After that you could get by with out the clutch, until you missed a gear and had to all but stop and start over.


My first truck was a 75 f250. 360 fe. No power steering or brakes points ignition. I have no fond memories of that thing. Passed everything but the gas station. Major rust bucket. Actually just sold it a wile back. Went to a 93 f 150 extended cab short bed. Loved that truck. Also decided at that point I'd never buy another std cab. Save the 73 high boy I have, but that's more sentimental then anything.


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## rancher2 (May 7, 2021)

Sandhill My folks had a small truck stop and filling station when I was a kid in the 60's-70's and we had a old Willy's Jeep with four chains on it and a snow blade with about fifty foot of jumper cables hanging off the front. With a starting unit in the back. We also had a 8 N Ford with loader and blade for snow pushing. Even us old guys seem to be moving into four door pickups. My farm knock around truck is even a four door now days. Found a 2011 with thirty thousand miles on it a couple of years ago so now I have a four door pickup with heated leather seats for a every day farm truck.


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## Sandhill Crane (May 7, 2021)

Removed the rear D-rings. Dumps nice. Backed up near the guys stacked wood, maybe six or seven feet, as last time the first row just tipped over and the rest sat on it until I pulled ahead. This load shot two rows out. Thought I was going to knock his stacked row over. Two pieces hung up, one on each mid D-ring.
Another tight spot too, with a lot of tire scuff with two cord. Took two tries to get in. Oh well! The axles are still under it. Sprinklers and fencing intact. Plus he can still get his car out of the garage, and the one parked on the road can get in.
Cut the post by 3" and Margaret said 8" on the right side truck door.


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## CaseyForrest (May 7, 2021)

When I had a dump, I had 2 batteries that I would swap out when I was using the trailer every day. Replaced the nuts on the posts with wing nuts for easy swap. This allowed 1 battery to always be on the charger and ready to go.


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## Jhenderson (May 7, 2021)

Modern vehicles charge the battery through the 7 way plug.


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## CaseyForrest (May 7, 2021)

Modern vehicles dont provide the current and amperage needed to charge a battery on a dump trailer through a 7 way plug.

I could get 7 or so dumps on a single battery charge all in the same day before getting the bed back down on the 7th dump became iffy. The trailer plug can not keep up with that so having a second battery ready to swap out was beneficial.


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## Sandhill Crane (May 7, 2021)

Thanks. 
Good to know. 
We have the RV battery to swap out. 
I have been running to our sons, an hour one way, three or four times a week. 
The larger firewood loads obviously take some juice. Not only is the box power up/down, so is the tailgate and jack.
It does get plugged in over night on occasion.


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## Big_Eddy (May 7, 2021)

CaseyForrest said:


> Modern vehicles dont provide the current and amperage needed to charge a battery on a dump trailer through a 7 way plug.
> 
> I could get 7 or so dumps on a single battery charge all in the same day before getting the bed back down on the 7th dump became iffy. The trailer plug can not keep up with that so having a second battery ready to swap out was beneficial.



I haven’t had to charge my battery off the trailer - ever.
1 or 10 loads a day, it hasn’t been an issue. Typical travel distance is 20-25 km each way per load, so 30-45 mins drive time per dump.
If you’re only doing 5 min trips, it could be different 



Sandhill
Interesting place for the spare. How easy is it to get down, fully loaded? Right now my spare rides in the truck bed - when I remember it. I need to mount it so it won’t still be at home the next time I have a flat. [emoji3525]


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## CaseyForrest (May 7, 2021)

My trailer never stayed attached to the truck, so it never benefited from being connected to the truck battery overnight. 7 dumps in a single day when I was running gravel or logs and that was about it. Figure approx 10 hours of total time the trailer would be plugged into the truck.

@Jhenderson, turck charging system functioned fine as the truck never had an issue keeping its battery charged. I can not speak to the battery that went with the trailer when I sold it, but the other battery that was in rotation I still have and its primary function now is to run my 3 point sprayer. I put it on the charger about once per year.

For MY specific uses, the 7 way plug never provided the neccessary charging abilities to keep the trailer battery topped of. If I was only dumping once or twice a day, I could get away with leaving it in longer.


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## sean donato (May 7, 2021)

CaseyForrest said:


> My trailer never stayed attached to the truck, so it never benefited from being connected to the truck battery overnight. 7 dumps in a single day when I was running gravel or logs and that was about it. Figure approx 10 hours of total time the trailer would be plugged into the truck.
> 
> @Jhenderson, turck charging system functioned fine as the truck never had an issue keeping its battery charged. I can not speak to the battery that went with the trailer when I sold it, but the other battery that was in rotation I still have and its primary function now is to run my 3 point sprayer. I put it on the charger about once per year.
> 
> For MY specific uses, the 7 way plug never provided the neccessary charging abilities to keep the trailer battery topped of. If I was only dumping once or twice a day, I could get away with leaving it in longer.


Can't say I've had an issue with the 7 way not keeping the battery charged, last week I hauled around 15 loads of dirt from the neighbors to my place. Never had a low battery, from dumping too much, and when I plugged in the float charger after the last load wad dumped, it was done charging in about 5 minuets. Unless your set up Is way different then what I've got its not really a power hungry pump motor. mine has twin telescoping rams.


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## CaseyForrest (May 7, 2021)

Twin cylinders here too. 7x14 and almost always maxed out if not over.


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## sean donato (May 7, 2021)

CaseyForrest said:


> Twin cylinders here too. 7x14 and almost always maxed out if not over.


Sounds nearly exactly what I've got. Wonder what the difference is.


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## Big_Eddy (May 7, 2021)

My truck will only feed charging power to the 7 pin when running. The trailer may stay attached overnight, but no charging benefit from that. 

Power up, gravity down, 12’ 3 stage cylinder here. 1 cord loads 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## nathan4104 (May 8, 2021)

sean donato said:


> Sounds nearly exactly what I've got. Wonder what the difference is.


Sean, i have a similar issue that I’ve been chasing since I got my dump trailer. (Way smaller than yours). The 7 pin just does not give enough to keep a charge beyond 4-6 dumps. (Short 30 min runs between trips). My truck has 30a fuse for the trailer tow charge. It’s a 14-16ga wire? 25’ long, there won’t be much juice flowing at the end of that. I’m glad others have good luck with theirs. I added welding cable from the truck battery to the trailer battery using a big Anderson plug (and fused correctly). Now the alternator only puts out 14.x volts which is not correct to charge a deep cycle but gets it close. Maybe a big starting battery would be better than a deep cycle? Sandhill, that’s a nice looking set up. You’re more ambitious than me, restacking it in the trailer!


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## Jhenderson (May 8, 2021)

A big deep cycle is your best bet. Preferably 850 amps or more. In the 29 years I’ve been delivering tree length using dump trailers I’ve gotten the best results with Deka batteries. Right now NAPA batteries are built by Deka. Last Monday I delivered 10 , 2 cord loads with only 10 miles between dumps. When I got home I put the charger on the trailer because I knew I’d pushed things. In 3 hrs the charger was on float.


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## Sandhill Crane (May 8, 2021)

I do plug the trailer in some days when it sits to be sure.
The spare is accessible when the box is down. The opposite side has expanded metal for tool storage of some sort. Anything there would be totally exposed to road slop when wet. I'm not set up for flats yet. The jack in a case for the RV would work when empty, but what good is that? The fire extinguisher went with the 5500 when sold, and not sure of the lug nut size. I need to get up to speed there.
Having done two two cord loads I may limit to 1 1/2 cord for less tongue weight, a better balanced load, and less tire scuffing. Most customers get a cord or less. They simply don't have the room for more at one time. I've also had more rentals prior to Covid, and they get 1/3 cord for the fire pit, whether it is the renters buying direct, or the rental company supplying and re-marketing.

Stacking: Yes, that took awhile, close to four hours actually. I played Pandora and got to work. Kind of enjoyed it, especially when considering how I did deliveries in the past. The trailer is 82" x 16' x 4' high, 400+ cu. ft. which by the numbers should hold two cord loose. Not sure how I would load it, or how it would dump. I have used the conveyor to load it. That works. I may go to that, as with eight pallets for two cord, it stacked out seven and three fourths pallets. Not much of a savings. I thought it would be more like half a pallet savings. It requires moving the splitter, moving the conveyor, loading and then getting the conveyor lined up with the PackFix when done. There might be an hour and a half, maybe two hour saving.
There is a wow factor from the customer when stacked in the trailer, and when dumped, piled row upon row on the ground. Yesterdays customer text several neighbors stopped by as he and his wife were stacking and requested contact info. 
We could see and smell Lake Michigan across the road from where we were. When we left we drove along the lake shore. Several cottages were being worked on, many appeared to have new foundations, having probably been moved back from the eroding bluffs. 
I probable could not have gotten in this spot without Margaret spotting me. Most customers don't visualize the foot print needed to swing the trailer tail to the point they want when encountering gates, sprinklers, mailboxes and parked cars. I think I measured 19' for the truck, 5' trailer tongue, and 16' trailer.
It's all part of it. It's doable or it's not. Then there's overhead, and being flat side to side. I still can't believe how tall this 4' box gets at full height. It dumps firewood at half that however.

If I start doing more frequent loads I'll research the jumper packs. They look pretty handy rather than switching batteries out. I'll take a look at what battery came with the trailer. I would assume having three double hydraulic functions, jack, tailgate and power up/down dump, the battery should be a decent one. I did get a new deep cycle for the RV a year ago.

Thanks for the tip on Deka, it's not a name I've heard of and would probably not considered it otherwise.


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## Jhenderson (May 8, 2021)

Deka is the house brand from East Penn MFG. They do all their mfg in one location. It’s a very large outfit. We have an East Penn retailer about 30 miles from here.


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## nathan4104 (May 8, 2021)

Jhenderson said:


> A big deep cycle is your best bet. Preferably 850 amps or more. In the 29 years I’ve been delivering tree length using dump trailers I’ve gotten the best results with Deka batteries. Right now NAPA batteries are built by Deka. Last Monday I delivered 10 , 2 cord loads with only 10 miles between dumps. When I got home I put the charger on the trailer because I knew I’d pushed things. In 3 hrs the charger was on float.


You must be running at least a group 31, maybe even bigger? That’s my next step, move up from the Group 24.... it’s just too small.


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## CaseyForrest (May 8, 2021)

Not the same type of trailer, and granted there isnt enough room in a dump trailer without modifications.... I replaced the single 12v battery on our RV with 2 6v Golf Cart batteries. We can go quite a while dry camping when needed. There are 12v Golf Cart batteries as well, but the 6v in series gave us better numbers than the single 12v.


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## Sandhill Crane (May 9, 2021)

My understanding is you only get 50% draw down before you adversely effect the recharge potential of the regular wet cell batteries.
Which isn't very much really.


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## rancher2 (May 9, 2021)

In a couple of my dump trailer's I tried group 27 deep cycle batteries never had a problem with them dumping the trailer multi times but they didn't seem to last for what they cost. I have had the best luck with group 31 starting batteries that are used in a lot of semi trucks. I buy the most CCA that I can find. I just replaced the one in my pickup box trailer that is a dump and the battery was ten years old. It would still dump the trailer but only a couple of times before it was dead. Buddy was using the trailer so I just replaced the battery. I use a lot of group 31 battery's around the farm.


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## sean donato (May 9, 2021)

rancher2 said:


> In a couple of my dump trailer's I tried group 27 deep cycle batteries never had a problem with them dumping the trailer multi times but they didn't seem to last for what they cost. I have had the best luck with group 31 starting batteries that are used in a lot of semi trucks. I buy the most CCA that I can find. I just replaced the one in my pickup box trailer that is a dump and the battery was ten years old. It would still dump the trailer but only a couple of times before it was dead. Buddy was using the trailer so I just replaced the battery. I use a lot of group 31 battery's around the farm.


I have 2 group 31 batteries that power my 12k winch on the deck over. They get charged off the charger, then off the truck till it's time to use it. Flip a switch off to isolate from the truck and use them. Rarely do I charge them in-between pulls. (For obvious amp draw reasons) Think this is year 4 on them. They arnt deep cycle just Normal batteries for a Semi truck. Don't know what group is in the dump, I'll have to check then. I just assumed it was a group 31.


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## Sandhill Crane (May 9, 2021)

Pulled the battery. Small sticker says K-20 and in printed 27 something. So I assume it is a group 27. There is a welded metal open bottom tray and tie down. Don't think a group 31 would fit without mod. There is room to add one however.
The RV battery is a West Marine stickered group 27, middle of the road deep cycle. Nothing for dry camping.
.


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## sean donato (May 9, 2021)

Yep that's what mine has in it, group 27. just go home and checked.


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## Sandhill Crane (May 10, 2021)

Took empty truck/trailer to scales.
I love this trailer, however...
The ball weight empty is half the truck receiver hitch rating, and a neg. 100# on the steer.
A weight distribution hitch would help on the big loads, placing weight forward on the steer axle and rearward on the trailer axles.
I'm just going to limit myself to cord and a half loads, which can be better distributed and still keep 11-12% on tongue.
The next one will be a gooseneck.


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## Jhenderson (May 10, 2021)

If you buy a GN you need to be in it for the long haul. I love mine but on a trade in or private sale they have a limited market. I’m looking at a new PJ . The trade in on my 10 year old 18,500 lb GN dump is less than if it was a bumper pull, even though it was almost $2,000 more when new. That being said, I’ll buy another GN.


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## sean donato (May 10, 2021)

Sandhill Crane said:


> Took empty truck/trailer to scales.
> I love this trailer, however...
> The ball weight empty is half the truck receiver hitch rating, and a neg. 100# on the steer.
> A weight distribution hitch would help on the big loads, placing weight forward on the steer axle and rearward on the trailer axles.
> ...


Thats interesting, I would have expected more weight to go on the tongue. The cam dealer was explaining that they wanted 15% of the weight to be carried by the tongue if we were to load it to max capacity. I've had it loaded full of chestnut and hickory with my first load and it towed very well and didn't sink the back of the truck much. No idea of the weight, but it was quite heavy.


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## Sandhill Crane (May 10, 2021)

The trailer has a gvw of 15,400.
Axles are two 7k.
Trailer weight per book is approx. 5,710 or 5,720 if I remember right.
10% would be 570. Half again would be 750 + 35, 785. 
Here is the real numbers with a topped off tank, and I'm not in the truck.
With two cord stacked I did nine rows, 37.5" high x 82" wide.
I could start a foot further back and still make it, and I could go eight rows and higher, 42"
Next time I do two cord I'll check the scales. This time it was raining and pushed loading back. I didn't want to scale on Saturday morning before the delivery
.


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## CUCV (May 10, 2021)

I keep my delivery circle small and do run into battery drain down issues after 6-7 loads. On my first dump trailer I ran heavy gauge wire to the rear bumper with quick disconnects such that the battery on the trailer really was no longer necessary but it was a bit of work and expensive and only worked with that truck. I added a solar charger on a later dump trailer and had great success. Jumper packs have made me a bit lazy and I haven't installed a solar charger yet on my current trailer but it's on my to-do list.


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## sean donato (May 10, 2021)

Sandhill Crane said:


> The trailer has a gvw of 15,400.
> Axles are two 7k.
> Trailer weight per book is approx. 5,710 or 5,720 if I remember right.
> 10% would be 570. Half again would be 750 + 35, 785.
> ...


Seems your a tad over the 15% mark lol. My truck hitch is all in at 750lbs tongue weight without a distribution hitch. I have an Anderson hitch I just got a bit ago, not much to it, biggest thing I liked about it is I don't have to take it off to back up, works well up to 14k. Which is the biggest trailer I have atm, and keeps me within the 20k GCWR of my 3/4 ton truck. (Er well close enough to it.) Unfortunately I don't have easy access to a scale, sure would be handy for figuring out axle weights. 
Cheers


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## tla100 (Jun 4, 2021)

Not sure I posted this before, but rented a dump last year and they had a little Honda 5-6 horse maybe. It dumped a lot faster than the battery power trailers I have used in past. Don't see many around tho.


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## Sandhill Crane (Jun 7, 2021)

I really like that the tongue area is clear. There is a diamond plate box, low in the tongue for the battery, for emergency electric brakes and hydraulic pump unit. The hydraulic jack is behind the box and bolted to trailer frame, not the tongue. I can drop the truck tail gate with the trailer at any angle. There is diamond plate next to tool box, all of which is solid to walk on, including the box lid. The foot of the jack is mostly obscured, so I do a double check to make sure it is lifted, and tow with hydraulics in tailgate mode. This is because the cabled hydraulic controller does not have an on/off mode. In tailgate mode, the gate is locked down. If for some reason the unit was activated the hydraulics would run but not function a device.
A gas powered pump would have it's advantages and disadvantages. Certainly an advantage for heavy usage. 
I've done fourteen deliveries is all, mostly one cord or less. A cord and a half load, two two-cord loads. So far some tight spots, rubbed a thousand miles off scuffing when backing. So far so good.
For over a cord and a half, a bumper pull is NOT the way to go. In my case, the pickup is personal use, with a roll up aluminum tonneau cover. If the truck was a dedicated delivery, then a gooseneck for sure, no question.
I did remove the rear tie-downs for firewood deliveries.
Tire scuff here is from two tries. There are front steps in the background to the left, and Lake MI across the street beyond the pines. The 12' flatbed truck was easier to get in these spots, but took almost two hours to unload by hand.
Two days later his neighbor, beyond the pines, called for a load, and another called to inquire and schedule when they're in town next.
Get this trailer paid off and then, hopefully next year, a processor.


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## Big_Eddy (Jul 9, 2021)

I jinxed myself. Went to deliver 2 loads back to back and on the second, the pump stopped about half way up. We were able to coax it 3/4 up then dumped while pulling out, although with a longer spread. After troubleshooting, I found the holder for the power wire had corroded off in the 7pin, so was not charging from the truck. Had a spare connector, so 30 mins later, we had juice again. It would be nice to have a charge state indicator on the battery box.

I wonder if one of the breakaway box indicators would work?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## sean donato (Jul 9, 2021)

Just hook a little volt meter with a toggle switch to the battery mount it some where convenient. You'll know if the battery is being charged or not pretty quick.


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## Huskybill (Sep 15, 2021)

Jhenderson said:


> CDL are federal laws. The state has no options. If you’re delivering a product and you’re over 26,000lbs truck or combined you need a CDL.
> Id really like to see a C30 or F350 with 10,000lbs in the bed.


I loaded 1 1/4” stone she weighed 16k in my one ton truck.


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## Jhenderson (Sep 15, 2021)

16K IN the truck, or 16K gross?


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## sean donato (Sep 16, 2021)

Jhenderson said:


> 16K IN the truck, or 16K gross?


Just an FYI I did an inspection on a 2020 2500 ram last week. Gvw was just over 10k. Gas truck, nothing special about it. I was pretty surprised it was rated at such a high weight. It's a work truck and the owner uses it as such. He emptied it out to bring it in, but normally tips the scales right at 9800lbs when it's loaded up. Had 4b registration on it, and it's a 3/4 ton truck. Crazy how they rate stuff these days.


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## ClimberBusinessman (Dec 17, 2021)

sean donato said:


> Just remember any trailer licenced over 10k requires a class A cdl. Doesnt matter the state. We just got hit at work for that. Had our youngest boy who hasn't gotten his cdl yet hauling our mini hoe, machine weighs just shy of 12k lbs, trailer is rated for 14k. Cost a pile in fines. Wont be doing that again.
> For what it's worth, I borrow a friends 10k dump trailer occasionally. It's an Appalachian. 7'x16' its held up reasonably well, I dont care for the twin cylinders on it, sometimes as it lifts it kinds wobbles side to side, like the cylinders are binding somehow. Other then that it has held up well. Not used for any sort of production work, so ymmv


No, only if the truck + trailer combined GVWR is under 26,000. If you have a 10,000 GVWR pickup and a 15,999 GVWR trailer, you're right under the limit. The only way you can do* more than* 10,000 on the trailer without a CDL is if you stay under 26,000 combined weight ratings. However, you can go above 26,000 combined vehicle weight rating if you keep your trailer weight at 10,000 maximum. You can technically drive a 26,000 GVWR truck with a 10,000 GVWR trailer without a CDL, just your regular class D License. A lot of people don't know that. As soon as you go above 26000 pounds on the truck, you need a Class B or Class A CDL license. As soon as you go above 10,000 on the trailer, and it puts you over 26000 combined weight rating, you need a Class A CDL license.
Of course, non of this applies if you're using it entirely for personal use, and not for any business purpose. Theoretically, you could drive a tractor trailer without a CDL if you used only for personal use--but who would pay 20-60k annually to insure it?


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## Sandhill Crane (Dec 18, 2021)

ClimberBusinessman said:


> You can technically drive a 26,000 GVWR truck with a 10,000 GVWR trailer without a CDL, just your regular class D License.


I think your mistaken.
Anything over 26,001 for commerce requires a CDL, possible restrictions or endorsements, and interstate or intrastate designation.
What is a class D license?

EDIT: New law going into effect as of this February, classes in all states will be required prior to getting a CDL.


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## Jhenderson (Dec 18, 2021)

Sandhill Crane said:


> I think your mistaken.
> Anything over 26,001 for commerce requires a CDL, possible restrictions or endorsements, and interstate or intrastate designation.
> What is a class D license?
> 
> EDIT: New law going into effect as of this February, classes in all states will be required prior to getting a CDL.


 You are correct in that you’ll need a CDL. As long as the trailer is under 10,000 lbs you can get away with a class B.


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## ClimberBusinessman (Dec 18, 2021)

Jhenderson said:


> You are correct in that you’ll need a CDL. As long as the trailer is under 10,000 lbs you can get away with a class B.


Here's what the Federal Motor Carrier Administration says:
" *Question 6: A driver operates a tractor of exactly 26,000 pounds Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR), towing a trailer of exactly 10,000 pounds GVWR, for a GCWR of 36,000 pounds. HM and passengers are not involved. Is it a Commercial Motor Vehicle (CMV)s and does the driver need a CDL?
Guidance:*

No to both questions. Although the vehicle has a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) of 36,000 pounds, it is not a Commercial Motor Vehicle (CMV) under any part of the definition of that term in §383.5, and a CDL is not federally required. "






Regulations Section







www.fmcsa.dot.gov






A class D license is your standard, non-CDL license that you can get at age 16 or 17 in most states. You can be at GCVWR of 36,000 with your standard, class D license, provided the truck is no heavier than 26,000 and trailer is no heavier than 10,000. In terms of upgrading your license, a class B only lets you drive a heavier truck; it's useless for letting you drive a trailer that weighs more than 10,000 pounds with the combined weight over 26,000. A Class A license is what you'd need then.


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## Jhenderson (Dec 18, 2021)

Today is a good day. I learned something. Thanks.


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## Sandhill Crane (Dec 18, 2021)

ClimberBusinessman said:


> * Is it a Commercial Motor Vehicle (CMV)s and does the driver need a CDL?
> Guidance:*


In this example you are correct.
Nothing in this situation states "commerce" is part of the example, and one assumes, it is a personal vehicle.
Although I'm not familiar with the term "HM" and have no idea of what this refers to, so it would be a cloudy assumption on my part, and I would have probably answered the question incorrectly.
GCVWR of 36,000, if dealing with commerce, would require a cdl.
Also note the example speaks of weight rating, not scale weight.


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## Sandhill Crane (Dec 18, 2021)

One of the YouTube hot shot drivers got a ticket for improper vehicle registration at a scale, and no cdl. He was a Non cdl and weighed over 26,001.
He went to court and argued he was properly registered and did not need a cdl as registered, just over weight,.
Judge dropped the improper vehicle registration and cdl violation.
The prosecutor issued him an over weight violation in court.


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## ClimberBusinessman (Dec 18, 2021)

Sandhill Crane said:


> In this example you are correct.
> Nothing in this situation states "commerce" is part of the example, and one assumes, it is a personal vehicle.
> Although I'm not familiar with the term "HM" and have no idea of what this refers to, so it would be a cloudy assumption on my part, and I would have probably answered the question incorrectly.
> GCVWR of 36,000, if dealing with commerce, would require a cdl.
> Also note the example speaks of weight rating, not scale weight.


As far as I am aware, the FMCSA (and the USDOT which is under it) only has jurisdictional authority over vehicles used for commercial purposes, not personal vehicles. So this regulation applies to commercially used vehicles, even though they are legally classified by the FMCSA as "non-commercial" and thus no CDL is required. Tree companies routinely have drivers with standard, non-CDL licenses drive 26,0000 GVWR chip trucks and a 10,000 GVWR (or less) chipper. It's possible some DOT enforcement officials think 26,000 combined GVWR is the limit, and there definitely seems to be some confusion on this, but you can technically be at 36,000 combined weight provided your truck doesn't exceed 26,000 GVWR and trailer doesn't exceed 10,000 GVWR. 
You'll still need DOT numbers anytime you're over 10,000 combined weight between truck and trailer, (nearly all trailers, even the small ones with a pickup put you in this category), and you'll need to have each driver have a DOT Medical Card, and you'll need to have a driver qualification file on each driver, regardless if you're the one driving, or your employee. But all that can be done without a CDL.


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## Jhenderson (Dec 18, 2021)

ClimberBusinessman said:


> As far as I am aware, the FMCSA (and the USDOT which is under it) only has jurisdictional authority over vehicles used for commercial purposes, not personal vehicles. So this regulation applies to commercially used vehicles, even though they are legally classified by the FMCSA as "non-commercial" and thus no CDL is required. Tree companies routinely have drivers with standard, non-CDL licenses drive 26,0000 GVWR chip trucks and a 10,000 GVWR (or less) chipper. It's possible some DOT enforcement officials think 26,000 combined GVWR is the limit, and there definitely seems to be some confusion on this, but you can technically be at 36,000 combined weight provided your truck doesn't exceed 26,000 GVWR and trailer doesn't exceed 10,000 GVWR.
> You'll still need DOT numbers anytime you're over 10,000 combined weight between truck and trailer, (nearly all trailers, even the small ones with a pickup put you in this category), and you'll need to have each driver have a DOT Medical Card, and you'll need to have a driver qualification file on each driver, regardless if you're the one driving, or your employee. But all that can be done without a CDL.


Afraid your mistaken on DOT numbers. I operate commercially and routinely gross 28K+ with my pickup and GN . I have no DOT numbers. As long as I remain within 150 air miles of home, return each night, and don’t cross state lines I‘m exempt from both DOT registration and log book requirements.


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## Sandhill Crane (Dec 18, 2021)

I needed DOT for 20,500 gvwr, plated for 24k, no trailer. Fined $250. in Michigan, 80 miles from home by DOT officer. Two additional fines for no fire extinguisher, no triangles. No log book required. Road side inspection after being detained. I applied after the fact for intrastate DOT.
I told the officer I asked when purchasing commercial plates that the Sec of State office said DOT registration was not required. The officer said Sec. of State does not know what they are talking about. I got caught in the middle for $500. total fines, plus cost of lettering on vehicle, fire extinguisher and triangle kit.


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## Sandhill Crane (Dec 18, 2021)

I think DOT applies to doing commerce and 10k+ gvwr, even if it's a pickup or van.
The biggest violation I see locally is firewood that is above the side bed and not covered, and the same with trailers.


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## Jhenderson (Dec 19, 2021)

You really should have known about the fire extinguisher, flares and lettering. DOT requirements vary state to state so a blanket statement about those regs is ill advised.


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## Sandhill Crane (Dec 19, 2021)

Yeah, maybe so. However, I assumed the Sec. of State office would know what's is required when issuing commercial license plates.
The person I asked there, at the counter, did not know and asked a supervisor who stated I did not need DOT registration for delivering firewood to customers as an LLC.
He was obviously wrong.
I paid the price.
I'm a home owner trying to do things legal, not a commercial contractor with speed dial accountants and lawyers.
I still know little of DOT, just sharing my experience to date, and maybe somehow it will benefit someone else.
Certainly doesn't apply to everyone.


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## Jhenderson (Dec 19, 2021)

*You are correct. State officials should know the law or who you should contact for the correct info. 
I’m a Sole Proprietor with no legal team, just 40 years of learning ( sometimes the hard way) as I go. *


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