# newbie big tree questions



## Shannon tower (Jan 5, 2014)

Hi all,
Ive been lurking for a while now, thanks to all the posters I've learned alot, but have a long way to go. I live on the Oregon coast, and have around a hundred large firs that I would like to prune and desail. I will be busy for a while. I have a 150ft. Hank of hivee, which reaches about halfway up in the tree I am starting with, which is about 4 ft. In diameter. I have an 18 ft flipline which only has a few feet of tail left after going around the tree, and a 20 foot lanyard of Samson line. My thought was too climb up one side, limbing as I go, then get the back side on the descent. My problem is getting past the limbs, I cant for the life of me get my lanyard above the next limb. Is there a trick to this? Am I going about this all wrong? There trees are "hairy", lots of limbs, and its tough to get to the backside when my line is running through so many limbs above me, no swinging easy around the tree. 
I am really enjoying this so far, fun work, although I'm 6'4, 210 pounds and turn 39 tomorrow so I need to get in shape for it, what a workout! Thanks for any responses, advice is much appreciated .


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## Zale (Jan 5, 2014)

Are you climbing alone?


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## Shannon tower (Jan 5, 2014)

Just me and the trees.


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## Zale (Jan 5, 2014)

You might want to carry your cell phone with you in case you need to call 911. Thats the only advice I will give you.


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## Pelorus (Jan 5, 2014)

You might want to ensure the premiums on your life insurance policy are paid up and you have a Last Will / Power of Attorney done up. That is the only advice I will give you.


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## Shannon tower (Jan 5, 2014)

I have worked as an Oregon department of forestry fire crew faller . I have volunteered on fire dept. And participated in rope rescue. I have whitewater kayaked some of the biggest rivers in the west. I have rock climbed and am proficient with ropes. I am no fool, only new to climbing in trees. Thanks for the advice, I will figure it out.


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## kyle goddard (Jan 5, 2014)

Get a through line to set your climbing line as high as you can. Dismantle from the ground up. Use spikes only on removals. Do you understand str?


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## Shannon tower (Jan 5, 2014)

I have my line set about 75 feet up, all i could get with the big shot and the length of rope i have. My problem is the limbs are no more than four feet apart, so i am pulling a hard angle on my line under limbs above me, and my lanyard will be up against a limb on the back side, with no way to get to that limb without gaffing around. Dont,want to hurt my trees, or me. I am climbing with a hitch climber and prussik, with a petzl hand ascender, and a infinite loop system. I understand single rope technique, or do you mean somethinG else by str? Thank you very much for the response, it is appreciated.


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## ddhlakebound (Jan 5, 2014)

Shannon tower said:


> I have worked as an Oregon department of forestry fire crew faller . I have volunteered on fire dept. And participated in rope rescue. I have whitewater kayaked some of the biggest rivers in the west. I have rock climbed and am proficient with ropes. I am no fool, only new to climbing in trees. Thanks for the advice, I will figure it out.



How many of those things did you do alone?


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## kyle goddard (Jan 5, 2014)

You sound like you on the right track for pruning work one side then the other. Sort of like doing young pin oaks in my area. Have someone there to keep your line free of fallen limbs, its also safe to have a ground guy incase something happens to ya. Before you cut have two tie in points. Dont cut above your head.


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## kyle goddard (Jan 5, 2014)

Im sorry if some people give ya a hardtime on here. I believe or think they just want you to be safe. 

Also, there are some.great books out the for tree care. Check out tree stuff. Com or in your case. Maby wessper. I think there a bit closer to ya.

Be safe all the time.


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## Pelorus (Jan 6, 2014)

I volunteered on a FD for a couple of years too.....not an experience that added one solitary iota of useful knowledge or experience to tree climbing whatsoever. Your proficiency in other fields bears only minor relevance to what you are attempting. You may very well succeed and excel at this, but please be aware of the possible consequences of a fall from height. All of my 3 falls have been from less than 25', and they all resulted in pelvic and/or spinal fractures.
Get a copy of Jepson's " Tree Climber's Companion" from one of the site sponsors here, such as TreeStuff or WesSpur.


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## jefflovstrom (Jan 6, 2014)

Happy Birthday, Shannon!
Jeff


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## Shannon tower (Jan 6, 2014)

None, point taken.


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## Shannon tower (Jan 6, 2014)

ddhlakebound said:


> How many of those things did you do alone?


None, point taken.


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## Shannon tower (Jan 6, 2014)

Pelorus said:


> I volunteered on a FD for a couple of years too.....not an experience that added one solitary iota of useful knowledge or experience to tree climbing whatsoever. Your proficiency in other fields bears only minor relevance to what you are attempting. You may very well succeed and excel at this, but please be aware of the possible consequences of a fall from height. All of my 3 falls have been from less than 25', and they all resulted in pelvic and/or spinal fractures.
> Get a copy of Jepson's " Tree Climber's Companion" from one of the site sponsors here, such as TreeStuff or WesSpur.


The last thing i want to experience is a fall. That is why im here, asking people who know, and hopefully avoid a painful or life ending mistake.


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## Shannon tower (Jan 6, 2014)

kyle goddard said:


> Im sorry if some people give ya a hardtime on here. I believe or think they just want you to be safe.
> 
> 
> Also, there are some.great books out the for tree care. Check out tree stuff. Com or in your case. Maby wessper. I think there a bit closer to ya.
> ...



Thanks for your time kyle. I had planned on buying the tree climbers companion, but my total everytime i order from wesspur is shocking, so have put it off so far, may be time to bite the bullet. I do love wesspur, and fast shipping for me.


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## Shannon tower (Jan 6, 2014)

jefflovstrom said:


> Happy Birthday, Shannon!
> Jeff


Thanks, one year from forty, and going strong!


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## Zale (Jan 6, 2014)

If you hurt yourself in the upper half of the 150' fir and are unable to get to the ground with your 150' climbing line, what will you do? Just something to think about and the value of having someone on the ground watching you.


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## kyle goddard (Jan 6, 2014)

Zale said:


> If you hurt yourself in the upper half of the 150' fir and are unable to get to the ground with your 150' climbing line, what will you do? Just something to think about and the value of having someone on the ground watching you.



Choke the climbing line around the tree where ever you are and ride a figure eight down. You can sort of make an 8 out of some beiners


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## Shannon tower (Jan 7, 2014)

kyle goddard said:


> Choke the climbing line around the tree where ever you are and ride a figure eight down. You can sort of make an 8 out of some beiners


Exactly my plan, i can descend from the top if i go srt. I have used a biener as a self rappel device when rock climbing. Rigging with one arm might be next two impossible, but not too many choices in that situation. If there is one thing i learned from my years of whitewater kayaking, it is that there is no one better too rely on than yourself, and never, never count on anyone else to be there to rescue you, self rescue, or even better, not needing to be rescued, is always the best course to follow. Methodical planning, proper execution. Plan the work, work the plan, prepare for all contingencies.
On a on topic note, i believe i will order a line mug, a throwbag, and a tree climbers companion. A throw bag on a light line should work to get my lanyard moved up the tree. Will fix a clip onto the line so once i throw it around i can remove the bag, clip on my lanyard, and pull it on around. The book will hopefully shed some light on all these trade secrets i could harm myself with if i was made aware of them. Should be fun. Thanks to all for your time. Be safe.


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## Shannon tower (Jan 7, 2014)

kyle goddard said:


> Choke the climbing line around the tree where ever you are and ride a figure eight down. You can sort of make an 8 out of some beiners


Exactly my plan, i can descend from the top if i go srt. I have used a biener as a self rappel device when rock climbing. Rigging with one arm might be next two impossible, but not too many choices in that situation. If there is,one thing i learned from my years of whitewater kayaking, it is that there is no one better two rely on than yourself, and never, never count on anyone else to be there to rescue you, self rescue, or even better, not needing to be rescued, is always the best course to follow.


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## Shannon tower (Jan 7, 2014)

Guess i stutter when typing, sorry dont know what happened there.


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## ATH (Jan 7, 2014)

regarding the original question...being able to throw one end of the working position lanyard around a very large tree is an acquired skill...


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## beastmaster (Jan 7, 2014)

kyle goddard said:


> Choke the climbing line around the tree where ever you are and ride a figure eight down. You can sort of make an 8 out of some beiners


A becket bend on a biner will allow you to repel down in an emergency. Removing big conifers like those you take off the limbs as you gaff up. But if you trimming and prunning you don't want to use spikes. The holes are entry ways for beetles and pathogens. They also will leak sap causing a real pain next time you climb them.
You need to be equipped for what your doing, for yours as well as the trees well being.
A big shot, and throwline is a must. you need to get a line as high as possible in the tree. or at lest to a place you can comfortable climb to the top. Lean some SRT technique, this will serve you well for accessing the trees. Do your trimming as you come down, again its much easier on aa single rope. Be sure to tie in with your lanyard even whiile hanging on your lower line before each cut. Always have a back up in case you cut or nick one of your lines. 
You only get to make one mistake at that height. I learned on big wood, but had to work as a a groundman for a while before they felt I could start climbing. I learned a lot of stuff that help kept me safe in the trees by watching on the ground. Be safe and be smart.


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## Shannon tower (Jan 7, 2014)

beastmaster said:


> A becket bend on a biner will allow you to repel down in an emergency. Removing big conifers like those you take off the limbs as you gaff up. But if you trimming and prunning you don't want to use spikes. The holes are entry ways for beetles and pathogens. They also will leak sap causing a real pain next time you climb them.
> You need to be equipped for what your doing, for yours as well as the trees well being.
> A big shot, and throwline is a must. you need to get a line as high as possible in the tree. or at lest to a place you can comfortable climb to the top. Lean some SRT technique, this will serve you well for accessing the trees. Do your trimming as you come down, again its much easier on aa single rope. Be sure to tie in with your lanyard even whiile hanging on your lower line before each cut. Always have a back up in case you cut or nick one of your lines.
> You only get to make one mistake at that height. I learned on big wood, but had to work as a a groundman for a while before they felt I could start climbing. I learned a lot of stuff that help kept me safe in the trees by watching on the ground. Be safe and be smart.


Your response is appreciated sir.
I wish i had someone to watch for a while. I have a buddy who climbed for ten years for an PUD, he has given me some advice, and he came out and i watched him do a couple trees. I can call him to ask questions, but hate to at this point because he has helped me so much already. He is like a damn squirrel up there, and many of his techniques are beyond my skill level at this point. Start slow, be safe. 
So this morning i placed an order for a new bee line prussik cord, a new 16oz throw weight, a line mug, and two climbing books. Its going to rain for a week so i can study up. Hated to pull my line out of the tree this morning, but now i will get to play with my big shot again when the sun comes back this way. Thank you all for your advice and time.


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## crotchclimber (Jan 7, 2014)

Shannon tower said:


> Your response is appreciated sir.
> I wish i had someone to watch for a while. I have a buddy who climbed for ten years for an PUD, he has given me some advice, and he came out and i watched him do a couple trees. I can call him to ask questions, but hate to at this point because he has helped me so much already. He is like a damn squirrel up there, and many of his techniques are beyond my skill level at this point. Start slow, be safe.
> So this morning i placed an order for a new bee line prussik cord, a new 16oz throw weight, a line mug, and two climbing books. Its going to rain for a week so i can study up. Hated to pull my line out of the tree this morning, but now i will get to play with my big shot again when the sun comes back this way. Thank you all for your advice and time.



16oz throw bag is going to be a bit heavy for throwing in the tree. I use a 10oz and would consider a 12 but my 14 and 16oz bags are for use from the ground. Good choice to finally get the _Tree Climber's Companion_. That was my first piece of tree climbing gear. _Fundamentals of General Tree Work_ has some good info too. For what it sounds like you're doing I'd do SRT up using your system of choice and tie in with a lanyard or small DRT setup before beginning sawing. You're using a hand saw I hope? Still, be careful around lines under tension with any sharp tool.


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## sgreanbeans (Jan 8, 2014)

Another book that we forget to tell peeps about is "The Art and Science of Practical Rigging" by Arbormaster. Tons of good info


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## Shannon tower (Jan 8, 2014)

ATH said:


> regarding the original question...being able to throw one end of the working position lanyard around a very large tree is an acquired skill...


I,m still looking into where I can order that up


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## sgreanbeans (Jan 9, 2014)

Thought u where in San Diego?


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## Shannon tower (Jan 9, 2014)

sgreanbeans said:


> Thought u where in San Diego?


I am no Californian. I am near Newport Oregon. Just plain hurtful


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## CalTreeEquip (Jan 25, 2014)

Couple things.
1-You need a groundman because your rope WILL rapped around a stub and you will get stuck.
2-if something is in the way just cut it out. Cut your way up.
3- Use spikes. Its a matter of safety, just don't spike the hell out of it. The lower bark is 5" think, your not hurting anything.
(I know I'll get hell from this but I spent 20 years climbing tree just like this and I pioneered spikeless climbing in my area so, bit me)
4- Use two flip lines to go up.
5- Set your highlead with a throwball as best you can.
6- Lay out your rope well away from the tree. Take the time to keep it clear.
7- Get a longer line, your going to need it.
Good luck, your going to need it.


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## Shannon tower (Jan 25, 2014)

Thanks for the reply. 
I'm doing this work at my house, so there is always someone around when I'm climbing. I am actually wearing tree gaffs in the tree I started, as this tree is going away soon, so I cant hurt it. My question was about being able to advance my second flipline above a branch on the opposite side of the tree without slacking my climb line and gaffing around to cut it. I have since read about using sticks or poles to catch it, as it always seems to be about ankle level while I'm leaning the other way when it comes around. I'm going to try using a throw bag on throwline next time I get in the tree, not sure if that will be easier or not. I want to be able to get in the crown to limb without gaffs on trees that are staying. I was approached about building a tree house the other day, twenty five feet up, that will get me some on rope time, hope I get that job.


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## Adamgaspo (Jan 26, 2014)

FYI if you somehow become incapacitated in the tree you have a maximum of 30 mins before your blood becomes poison to the rest of your body (blood below your saddle in your legs). If you need to rappel
On a single line use the munter hitch, it can be tied with one hand in a pinch. 
When it comes to knots practice them on the ground, until you are proficient. Then practice some more, then practice them with your eyes closed.
Here's nothing worse than being stuck in a tree with no way to descend.
If your in the mood to spend money you should look into an SRT system that can be belayed from the ground if you become injured, and also with SRT systems there is no need to worry about your "tail" becoming entangled by limbs.

We're here to help as many people have already provided. 
The best advice given was to not climb alone... Your not helping your self, it's a recipe for disaster. 
Tree climbing is unlike many many other types of outdoor activities.
Tell a rock climber to move laterally on a rock face..... He will tell you your crazy!
On the FD you usually with other pros.
On he river you'll ended up floating somewhere.
In a tree....you either hit the ground or you are stuck and subsequently screwed.
If you have any questions about SRT inbox me 
All of the knots you need to learn can be found in the tree climbers companion or at sherrilltrees learning center.

When it comes to flipping your lanyard around a large tree, try attaching a throw weight to the end to give it a little more umph.

Adam


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## Shannon tower (Jan 26, 2014)

Thanks for your response. I understand the need for a groundsman, I get it, safety first. I am preparing to set up an srt system, two hand ascenders, two foot loops, and a prussik backup. Will try it out at work, the ridge beam in the 5500 sq.ft. house I am building is about 25 feet tall, should work for a great TIP, controlled environment and all. I have read the tree climbers companion a couple times now, working on beraneks fundamental of general tree work now. My wife makes fun of me because I always have a five foot piece of 5/16 double braid in my pocket now, tying knots when I have spare time. Good stuff, so much to learn.


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## BC WetCoast (Jan 27, 2014)

I've had to thin out a few conifers and can offer my perspective. Take it for what it's worth, as I'm not as good a climber as some that have answered. 

I've done it two ways, climbed to the top and then thinned my way down and started thinning at the bottom and worked my way up. I have found thinning my way up is easier as I'm not fighting a rat's nest of branches lower in the tree. 

As for moving my lines, often if the branches are large enough and solid, I will just put my lanyard/climbing line around a branch and not around the central stem. Of course this is very situation specific, but trying to swing your lanyard around a 48" stem when you have a 6" diameter branch you can tie in to is ridiculous. You have to make sure the branch is solid (not rotten) and large enough to hold you if you fall. For the most part, you aren't climbing the rope, you are climbing the branches and the rope is a safety belay (we're now talking about when you have reached the canopy). 

This way is slower than shooting your line high in the tree, but I have to work ddrt (company policy), so getting a clear line high in the tree can be a pain. Also if you are using branches 5-6' above your head as a tie in, you can easily work your way around the tree. As you get higher in the tree, and the diameter gets smaller, then you can put your lanyard/climbing line around the tree.

Another technique I have used is to cut branches as I work my way up using a handsaw leaving about a 6" stub. I can then use the stubs to climb up in the tree and when I get to the top, I trim the stubs as I rappel my way down. 

It's a good idea to work with a groundsman not only for the safety aspect, but to keep the branches at the bottom from becoming a rat's nest that will take you hours to clean up and to keep your rope clear. Our crews climb up to 170' using some form of these techniques, thinning conifers, with no difficulties. 

This is not technically challenging (if I can do it...), remember to always be tied in. Lanyard as you advance your climbing line, climbing line as you advance your lanyard.


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## Fireaxman (Feb 11, 2014)

"Another technique I have used is to cut branches as I work my way up using a handsaw leaving about a 6" stub. I can then use the stubs to climb up in the tree and when I get to the top, I trim the stubs as I rappel my way down. "

I don't like to leave a stub. Never say never, but stubs have a nasty habit of catching branches, tangling ropes, and gouging me unexpectedly in the side as I am on my way down. A friend once released a double crotch tie in a bit prematurely and swung into a stub, breaking his hip.

Getting your flipline around a good solid branch further around the tree rather than trying to throw it completely around the tree, then using it as a double crotch for work positioning can work well. Or even better, get another climb line installed on the far side of the tree and use it as a double crotch for work positioning. Also adds another level of safety as a second climbing system. Can you afford another rope? If you are enjoying this, some day you will want one anyway. Sooner is better. You are in a Wonderful place for tree climbing.


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## Shannon tower (Feb 11, 2014)

Thanks for the reply.
I have been looking for another climb line just for that reason. I have put together an Srt kit, but its been either snowing, freezing rain, windy, or just flat out pouring rain for weeks now. We have huge trees here, some six feet through Douglas firs that only count at 80-100 rings,some being a half inch or more wide for one season. They grow fast partly because of all this damn rain though. I'm ready for summer already.


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## climb4fun (Feb 12, 2014)

Climbing is dangerous? Huh... who would have imagined. 
I think hes old enough to realise his mortality and know when hes at risk.


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## Shannon tower (Feb 12, 2014)

A friend taught his friend to kayak. He became good. He chose to run challenging whitewater. He died in his kayak. My friend gave him the knowledge he lost his life using, but he did not make the choices that ended his friends life. My friend also taught me and others and because of him I spent some of the best days of my life on the water. I appreciate what he did for me, because he could have stepped aside, and told me I was a fool for even thinking about it.


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## Fireaxman (Feb 12, 2014)

"We have huge trees here, some six feet through Douglas firs that only count at 80-100 rings,some being a half inch or more wide for one season."

I have climbed twice up there with Rob and Jason of Pacific Tree Climbing Institute, Doug Firs well over 200 feet tall. Put our little 100 foot loblollies and cypress to shame. Hope to be back up there summer of 2014. Yes, your winters are pretty much bummer with so much rain, and our winters are very pleasant, we get a lot of sunny days and mild temps. But your August / September are Wonderful Relief from our 95 degrees, 90% humidity, and Storms out on the Gulf Stream.

I take a few chances I probably shouldn't take. I climb alone most of the time (just me and my cell phone). But it sure beats sittin around McDonalds with all the other old men talkin about the things I WISH I had done.

Near Eugene, with Rob and Jason. Picture taken from out on the Traverse line at a little under 200 feet high. You do got some beautiful Douglas Firs up there.


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## Charlie Stone (Feb 17, 2014)

This is a big job!


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