# a general felling wedge question, simple question, complex answers =P



## Dogbyte (Apr 4, 2013)

the reason i say complex answer, i mean, definitively... cause im wondering, using wedges, how much lean is too much, when you need it to fall the opposite direction, or even at a 45 to the lean? I know there is no convention here, and every tree is different with too many variables to take into account, but im more interested in just picking some of those more experienced brains out there... so lets paint with broad brushes, and speak in general terms, because it does have its uses i guess. we all want to be safe and not risk injury, but its a good tool especially when used correctly and safely. So lets hear it, whats the worst lean you've seen be corrected with wedges? Maybe you got a "how not to wedge" story, lets hear that too... gimme your favorite sizes, your go-to's, your specialty wedge, ect....


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## tramp bushler (Apr 7, 2013)

15° is pretty much the absolute MAXIMUM that you can correct with wedges. In very healthy timber. 10° is all I usually do. A you need several wedges to do that. Hard Head wedges are the best for a heavy lean. . 
In order to get good at lifting a tree you need to wedge a lot of trees. . It's real hard to overcome side lean with wedges. If you are around stuff that can be destroyed and there is more than 8' of lean in 100' of height. Forget it. . . 
Trees that need to be wedged need to be big enuf diameter so your wedges can disappear into the tree without bottoming out.

Learn to use a plumb bob. It is a real eye opener and once you get good with one is very accurate . 
It is very common for cleaners to have defect in the butt. So relying on wedges can get u in trouble quick.


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## tramp bushler (Apr 7, 2013)

Leaners. Its real common for leaners to have detect in the butt.


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## TheJollyLogger (Apr 7, 2013)

tramp bushler said:


> 15° is pretty much the absolute MAXIMUM that you can correct with wedges. In very healthy timber. 10° is all I usually do. A you need several wedges to do that. Hard Head wedges are the best for a heavy lean. .
> In order to get good at lifting a tree you need to wedge a lot of trees. . It's real hard to overcome side lean with wedges. If you are around stuff that can be destroyed and there is more than 8' of lean in 100' of height. Forget it. . .
> Trees that need to be wedged need to be big enuf diameter so your wedges can disappear into the tree without bottoming out.
> 
> ...



What? Incorrect. Sorry If you know how to divide a tree into segments you can calculate how far you can correct for backlean. as an example: if you have a 50' tall tree, and the distance from the back of the hinge to the wedging point is one foot, a one inch wedge will move the top 50". If the tree were 100' tall, you could move it 100". If the tree was 6" and 50' tall you could move the top 100". On the other hand if a tree is 50' tall and the wedge distance is 2 feet, you can move the top only 25".There are pther variables involved such as wood compression, kerf compensation, etc. but
to just say 15" is incorrect, it is really basic geometry.

EDIT : I went back and saw it was degrees not inches.


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## CalTreeEquip (Apr 7, 2013)

Since you're asking the question I say no lean. As you get more experience you can experiment with a leaner when you don't have anything to loose. Wedges are used to lift tree over center so they can fall safely. Not really meant for correct existing leans. Not that it can't be done, just that its real dangerous. Loggers do it sometimes but they don't have houses to hit. If you need to fell a tree against its lean professionals use a timber jack. I liked my 10 ton Tulsa pto winch for that sore of thing.


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## CalTreeEquip (Apr 7, 2013)

He said 15 degrees, which seems like a lot to me.
I had a rope come-along that worked real well with the smaller trees (<60').
Use that with wedges, even better.


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## tramp bushler (Apr 7, 2013)

[ya , unfortunately, I've beat over more timber than more than 90% of the people on this forum. Long devision is not something very many fallers do when it comes to putting wood on the ground. If u have enough mental acquity to do it, come beat wedges for me. Miss your calculations and you will work so hard you won't be able to talk let alone think. . 

If Bob or Randy or Cody or Sam or Pac or Shaun or Blitzer ect. Wants to argue the point with me, OK, I'll listen. May even learn something. There's ALOTthat goes into falling every tree. And when a guy has fell enough hundreds of thousands of them he learns most of it. But, a guy can still learn. Just that there isn't a lot more that I WANT to learn about beating wedges. :msp_angry:


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## TheJollyLogger (Apr 7, 2013)

I don't calculate either, but this is 101. If it helps him figure out what he can or can't do, it's good info for him to have. And apologies, when I first read your thread I thought you said 15" not degrees.


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## B Harrison (Apr 7, 2013)

CalTreeEquip said:


> He said 15 degrees, which seems like a lot to me.
> I had a rope come-along that worked real well with the smaller trees (<60').
> Use that with wedges, even better.



Here is one I did in Feb. I balanced the tree first from the canopy by removing the bottom limbs on the leaning side. I didn't take measurements and did have a cum-along and rope for a back up, but was able to wedge the rope slack before the tree fell.

It was 65' tall and 30" at the stump hard wood and healthy.
I will say the lean was between 2 and 4 % so maybe 6 degrees. It worried me but it worked well. I have another tree to do at some point for a friend, more hazards involved (fence and other trees) so again I will climb it drop the bottom limbs and tie a rope for back up. I would suggest the same thing for you, eve if you don't get the rope 65% up like most will tell you, its better to be there for a back up. 

Once you get wedges into a tree, you are way past the stop and call someone point, so if you aren't sure or don't have a couple like this away from obstacles call someone who does.


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## tramp bushler (Apr 7, 2013)

If your gonna climb high enough to put a line in it, ya may as well take it down from the top. Unless u have a lot of trees to get down in a short time. 
Wedges can lift lots, but they don't control the tree. The holding wood does that. And the face.

I've lifted a lot of good size trees that had a lot of lean. But that was cutting a strip. If I lostone its a pain,a bother and probably dangerous but not like I Tboned someones half milliondollar house.


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## Jeffsaw (Apr 8, 2013)

I use the yellow 8"(?) wedges by Oregon. They are a great tool to have when felling or bucking up wood. You can make your own from hardwood like Oak or Hop Hornbeam (Ironwood), too.
I set a rope in any tree I'm not completely sure will fall where I want it to, especially near buildings and other values. Its pretty cheap insurance.


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## tramp bushler (Apr 8, 2013)

If your gonna pound over any amount of timber. Get 2 12" Hard Head, 2 el cheepo 12" ( for doubling up) and a few 8" +10" . . If you don't break them or saw them up they will last a LONG time.


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## Gologit (Apr 9, 2013)

tramp bushler said:


> But, a guy can still learn. Just that there isn't a lot more that I WANT to learn about beating wedges. :msp_angry:



Amen.


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## newsawtooth (Apr 9, 2013)

tramp bushler said:


> If your gonna climb high enough to put a line in it, ya may as well take it down from the top. Unless u have a lot of trees to get down in a short time.
> Wedges can lift lots, but they don't control the tree. The holding wood does that. And the face.
> 
> I've lifted a lot of good size trees that had a lot of lean. But that was cutting a strip. If I lostone its a pain,a bother and probably dangerous but not like I Tboned someones half milliondollar house.



Tramp,

How much lean are you comfortable over coming with tree jacks? Just curious and I will likely never have the chance to use them. I'm in the city most of the time and subscribe to your belief that "If your gonna climb high enough to put a line in it, ya may as well take it down from the top".


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## tramp bushler (Apr 10, 2013)

Not any more than with wedges. But you can pick a lot bigger tree with jacks. 

I've about split the back off a spruce with wedges. Don't need to do it any worse with jacks. 
But jacks do take some exertion out of lifting a tree.


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## Tree&Stump (Apr 10, 2013)

I leave a thick hinge that is just enough to hold up the tree but to thick to fell it, then I pull it over with the come along or winch and a few pulley blocks in a mechanical advantage. It pays to pretention the rope before making the back cut. Experiment with that before felling one that's in a critical spot and leaning hard, and beware of the barber chair.


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## Dogbyte (Apr 21, 2013)

yes i like the come-a-long and pulley/block route as well. lots of room to adapt to a lot of situations seems like to me.


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## hannontree1 (Apr 21, 2013)

im in florida and we do alot of sandhill pines that get crazy leans to them near and over homes 60' to 90' tall we have to turn them 
we allways use 2 ton come along with wedges to do this works well use throw ball to set lines if not climbing it if you Are climbing your already up there start there and if not sure of it get someone who is to do better safe then sorry:msp_ohmy:


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## beastmaster (Apr 22, 2013)

When I was working removing trees in the bug program many years ago, I had just removed one tall pine next to a house using another tall pine on the otherside of the house. When it came time to remove the next tree I just knotted up the bull line and figure it would jam in the block we already had up there and we would use that to pull it over. It had a decent lean towards the house and we were going to pull it 180 degrees where we had an open shot. I made my face cut and started the back cut and they started putting tension on that rope and the knot pulled through. The Captain looked at me, said I had to go back up and put a rope in it. I was almost done with the back cut, no way I'm going to climb that tree. A ranger came out check every thing then had us get him some wedges and proceeded to wedge that tree over. I was very impressed to say the lest.
I never use wedges much except maybe to keep a tree from setting back on the bar or cutting big rounds up in the tree. There is usually a structure around and can't take no chances, but I take my hat off to those loggers who have it down to a science. I'm still impressed.


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## Dogbyte (Apr 22, 2013)

my original post had the intentions of starting a conversation, wasnt asking for permission or anyone's blessings, just wanted to hear what others with experience had to say, thats what folks wanting to learn do. thanks to all the anecdotal comments, that is what i was looking for.


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## HuskStihl (Apr 23, 2013)

tramp bushler said:


> [ya , unfortunately, I've beat over more timber than more than 90% of the people on this forum. Long devision is not something very many fallers do when it comes to putting wood on the ground. If u have enough mental acquity to do it, come beat wedges for me. Miss your calculations and you will work so hard you won't be able to talk let alone think. .
> 
> If Bob or Randy or Cody or Sam or Pac or Shaun or huskstihl (that guy's a loggin monster), or Blitzer,mass wine guy, or Dano, etc. Wants to argue the point with me, OK, I'll listen. May even learn something. There's ALOTthat goes into falling every tree. And when a guy has fell enough hundreds of thousands of them he learns most of it. But, a guy can still learn. Just that there isn't a lot more that I WANT to learn about beating wedges. :msp_angry:



Fixed your quote. You deserve more respect for your abilities, and experiences than you will likely receive in this thread. Best of luck. Reminds me of the time I told bob the gas went _Inside_ the saw, but his inner child must be a real mean lil' ####er, and he/it kicked my ass!


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## tramp bushler (Apr 23, 2013)

:msp_scared::msp_biggrin:


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## tramp bushler (Apr 23, 2013)

Wow, this is 101 , I thot we were over on the loggin side.


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## HuskStihl (Apr 23, 2013)

Dogbyte said:


> the reason i say complex answer, i mean, definitively... cause im wondering, using wedges, how much lean is too much, when you need it to fall the opposite direction, or even at a 45 to the lean? I know there is no convention here, and every tree is different with too many variables to take into account, but im more interested in just picking some of those more experienced brains out there... so lets paint with broad brushes, and speak in general terms, because it does have its uses i guess. we all want to be safe and not risk injury, but its a good tool especially when used correctly and safely. So lets hear it, whats the worst lean you've seen be corrected with wedges? Maybe you got a "how not to wedge" story, lets hear that too... gimme your favorite sizes, your go-to's, your specialty wedge, ect....





tramp bushler said:


> Wow, this is 101 , I thot we were over on the loggin side.




_What we've got here is failure to communicate._. Reason being the laws of physics are radically different in the arborist 101 and homeowner helper forums than in the logging forum. The main difference is the prevalence of a special gravitational force known as the "ohi####editup" attraction. It has several rules, most are _way_
beyond the scope of this discussion, but I'll try to summarize and keep it simple.

1) a tree will always fall towards the object of greatest financial worth. This can get complicated if any of the objects of value are in motion, but for the purposes of this discussion, we will assume they're not. But they could be, like the bosses new f250 he's so proud of.

2) trees are about 50' taller than they appear, and even the final leaf or needle is capable of inflicting catastrophic damage on a object of value

3) wedges only make this situation worse by having the tree initially start moving away from the object of value. This gives a nice false sense of security, but is in actuality just allowing the tree to accrue nascent energy to cause more damage to the object of value.

4) this law generally affects the natural inhabitants of the 101 and helper forum (myself included), and anyone on the chainsaw forum who thinks cc's are more important than brains/experience. Denizens of the logging forum prolly wouldn't try to wedge a decent leaner away from something expensive, but I don't know that for sure.

5) Jolly made the mistake of assuming a west coast logger probably didn't know anything about cutting down trees, but he seems like a good guy, apologized for any insult quickly, and did Texas proud. Looking back at my posts, 2% seem good, 27% are just wrong,31% make no sense, and the remaining 40% are apologies!


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## Gologit (Apr 23, 2013)

HuskStihl said:


> Denizens of the logging forum prolly wouldn't try to wedge a decent leaner away from something expensive, but I don't know that for sure.



We might. If we had to. Usually when you engage in a lot of wedge beating it indicates one of two things...you either read the tree wrong and now you're going to work until you're blue in the face beating on wedges and hoping they solve your problem....or you should have packed your jacks down with you but you didn't and now you're wishing you had but it's too far back up to the truck so you're doubling up and hoping you don't run out of wedges before you run out of tree and wishing that you'd taken up dairy farming or something sensible instead of being a faller.

Neither scenario is a whole lot of fun. Not that it's ever happened to me or anything.


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## Trx250r180 (Apr 23, 2013)

on the plumb bob part Tramp was talking about ,a retired faller pulled me aside one day ,told me to hold my axe out in front of me like a plumb bob and look at the tree to judge the lean ,very simple ,but i would have never thought of it till he pulled me aside ,iv'e actually used it on a few bent trees with success now ,you can eyeball the 10 degrees or so with this method also


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## Dogbyte (Apr 23, 2013)

trx250r180 said:


> on the plumb bob part Tramp was talking about ,a retired faller pulled me aside one day ,told me to hold my axe out in front of me like a plumb bob and look at the tree to judge the lean ,very simple ,but i would have never thought of it till he pulled me aside ,iv'e actually used it on a few bent trees with success now ,you can eyeball the 10 degrees or so with this method also



well good thing he pulled you aside, instead of you asking... if you asked what a plumb bob was, he might have told you dont bother  :bang:


Seriously though, sounds like a good guy to learn from, i like to bug those guys with lots of questions before they are gone. Had the same thing happen to me where someone showed me how to use a speed square to judge the height of a tree, ive used the stick trick before, same principle (tangent of a 45 deg angle = 1), but the square was easier and more accurate that what i could do with the stick.


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## Trx250r180 (Apr 23, 2013)

Dogbyte said:


> well good thing he pulled you aside, instead of you asking... if you asked what a plumb bob was, he might have told you dont bother  :bang:
> 
> 
> Seriously though, sounds like a good guy to learn from, i like to bug those guys with lots of questions before they are gone. Had the same thing happen to me where someone showed me how to use a speed square to judge the height of a tree, ive used the stick trick before, same principle (tangent of a 45 deg angle = 1), but the square was easier and more accurate that what i could do with the stick.



never heard the speedy square thing yet ,i will have to try it out see how close i can get :msp_thumbsup:


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## TheJollyLogger (Apr 23, 2013)

HuskStihl said:


> _What we've got here is failure to communicate._. Reason being the laws of physics are radically different in the arborist 101 and homeowner helper forums than in the logging forum. The main difference is the prevalence of a special gravitational force known as the "ohi####editup" attraction. It has several rules, most are _way_
> beyond the scope of this discussion, but I'll try to summarize and keep it simple.
> 
> 1) a tree will always fall towards the object of greatest financial worth. This can get complicated if any of the objects of value are in motion, but for the purposes of this discussion, we will assume they're not. But they could be, like the bosses new f250 he's so proud of.
> ...



Yes, my mistake was reading the post on my tiny little phone screen, thought he said 15" not 15°. I absolutely agree with your arborist rules. In an urban setting, I feel like wedges have the most use in keeping the kerf open and helping the rope, but it is also a tool every faller should have. After the fires down here my experience with wedging really came in handy and sped up production. Most of the guys I was working with had no experience wedging trees over, and wanted to set a rope in everything. When you've got 60 or 70 burnt pines to get down and nothing but a slab left on the property being able to judge lean can save a lot of time. As far as the section formula goes I do think it's a good starting point for a beginning arborist to use until he gets like tramp and can judge it as he's walking up to the tree.


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## Dogbyte (Apr 23, 2013)

HuskStihl said:


> _What we've got here is failure to communicate._. Reason being the laws of physics are radically different in the arborist 101 and homeowner helper forums than in the logging forum. The main difference is the prevalence of a special gravitational force known as the "ohi####editup" attraction. It has several rules, most are _way_
> beyond the scope of this discussion, but I'll try to summarize and keep it simple.
> 
> 1) a tree will always fall towards the object of greatest financial worth. This can get complicated if any of the objects of value are in motion, but for the purposes of this discussion, we will assume they're not. But they could be, like the bosses new f250 he's so proud of.
> ...



well, i might put it a little different, i'd say the laws of physics are the same, and thats the crux of most problems. Folks without experience testing those laws without having a better picture of what the outcome will be. no matter which forum it is, the laws are the same, its folks use of them that are different, and i know that was the point you were also making. knowing when you've made a mistake is the difference, hence the reason for the questions....some folks want to prevent mistakes, asking questions is part of that process i'd say.


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## tramp bushler (Apr 23, 2013)

OK. 
Now see, I told ya I may even learn something. . . 

How do you use a Speed Square to get the height of a tree??? ???
?????????????????????

I have never in my life heard anything about using a speed square to get the height of a tree. And since I'm also a carpenter I have a box of speed squares.


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## Dogbyte (Apr 23, 2013)

tramp bushler said:


> OK.
> Now see, I told ya I may even learn something. . .
> 
> How do you use a Speed Square to get the height of a tree??? ???
> ...



imagine a right angle. whenever the distance of the two legs are equal, you have a 45 degree angle of the hypotenuse, the long 3rd member of the triangle. holding that speed square up to your eye, will align you along that hypotenuse. So whether your standing on a ladder, standing up, kneeling down or laying flat on your back, as long as you hold the square level, sighting down the square will put you on this 1 for 1 plane, where the top of the sight is the tree tops, and the bottom of the sights (if you were to look the other way) would hit the ground, at an equal distance, from both ends. You just have to realize that if you are standing, then you are basically standing IN FRONT of that point on the ground by an amount equal from your feet to your eyes. If you were on a ladder, you'd have to add the height of the ladder, ect.... if you were laying flat on your back, your head would more than likely be resting on the ground the same distance away from the trunk as the tree tops.

folks do this with a stick and its the same principle. you have to snap off a stick the length between your eyes and your hand, then sight up the hypotenuse and put the tree tops on the tip of the stick. Its the same as the speed square, without being able to see the already made 45 degree angle. Both will probably yield the same results, but im better with the square than i am with the stick. Its hard for me to judge how level im holding the stick up with my line of sight (to my eyes). If you hold it too high or too low, then your 45 angle will become more than 45, or less than 45, thereby breaking the 1:1 principle of the right triangle. So its easier for me if i have a square to keep me aligned. its easier because of my own shortcomings...  lack of experience with a stick. 

that make any sense at all? LOL


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## Dogbyte (Apr 23, 2013)

View attachment 292066


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## Trx250r180 (Apr 23, 2013)

Dogbyte said:


> imagine a right angle. whenever the distance of the two legs are equal, you have a 45 degree angle of the hypotenuse, the long 3rd member of the triangle. holding that speed square up to your eye, will align you along that hypotenuse. So whether your standing on a ladder, standing up, kneeling down or laying flat on your back, as long as you hold the square level, sighting down the square will put you on this 1 for 1 plane, where the top of the sight is the tree tops, and the bottom of the sights (if you were to look the other way) would hit the ground, at an equal distance, from both ends. You just have to realize that if you are standing, then you are basically standing IN FRONT of that point on the ground by an amount equal from your feet to your eyes. If you were on a ladder, you'd have to add the height of the ladder, ect.... if you were laying flat on your back, your head would more than likely be resting on the ground the same distance away from the trunk as the tree tops.
> 
> folks do this with a stick and its the same principle. you have to snap off a stick the length between your eyes and your hand, then sight up the hypotenuse and put the tree tops on the tip of the stick. Its the same as the speed square, without being able to see the already made 45 degree angle. Both will probably yield the same results, but im better with the square than i am with the stick. Its hard for me to judge how level im holding the stick up with my line of sight (to my eyes). If you hold it too high or too low, then your 45 angle will become more than 45, or less than 45, thereby breaking the 1:1 principle of the right triangle. So its easier for me if i have a square to keep me aligned. its easier because of my own shortcomings...  lack of experience with a stick.
> 
> that make any sense at all? LOL



sounds like too much work ,seems quicker to just drop the tree and walk down it with my spencer tape


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## Dogbyte (Apr 23, 2013)

trx250r180 said:


> sounds like too much work ,seems quicker to just drop the tree and walk down it with my spencer tape



your probably right, but it makes me feel better knowing the tree tops is 20ft away from a fence, or just eyeballing it. its pretty simple, im probably explaining it where it sounds complicated. all i do is hold the square up to my eyes, and move around til i have the tree tops in sight, then turn around, and look on the ground about 6ft away (im 6ft), thats your spot.


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## TheJollyLogger (Apr 23, 2013)

trx250r180 said:


> sounds like too much work ,seems quicker to just drop the tree and walk down it with my spencer tape



It is kind of nice to know whether the fence or shed or house is gonna get hit, or whether we have to move that 300 pound birdbath or not.


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## Dogbyte (Apr 23, 2013)

haha, he was right though, i probably did make it sound like a lot of work.


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## tramp bushler (Apr 23, 2013)

OK. Now I get it. 

I go by the ( will it hit me) method. 
I go stand by what I don't want to hit and look up at the tree. If it will hit me then I know it. If I'm in the clear then I know that. Then I account for stuff flying. Cutting a strip with other cutters beside me I've gotten pretty good at knowing if I'm about to die so I just carry that over to arborist work. 

But I will take a speed square and work with it. 
Thanks for the explanation!!!! 
I never thot of using one in that way.


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## Trx250r180 (Apr 23, 2013)

so if your in the woods with no speed square couldn't you use your axe ? hold it out in front of your sight top and bottom of tree ,then tip it like a tree falling and get close results ?


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## Dogbyte (Apr 23, 2013)

tramp bushler said:


> OK. Now I get it.
> 
> I go by the ( will it hit me) method.
> I go stand by what I don't want to hit and look up at the tree. If it will hit me then I know it. If I'm in the clear then I know that. Then I account for stuff flying. Cutting a strip with other cutters beside me I've gotten pretty good at knowing if I'm about to die so I just carry that over to arborist work.
> ...



just this past weekend. i cut down a gum tree and i just dropped it the way it wanted to go anyway...but low and behold, my wife comes out and says "that not gonna hit the house?", i says..."well its not even going to fall that direction, but even if it did...the house is too far away". 

So i go and grab the speed square to measure it. So im standing there showing her by pointing at the ground, the height of the tree...she says with squinted eyes, "whatever you dont know that for sure". So to prove it to her, i walked over to where i was gonna fall the tree, did the same measurement, and dug a line with my boot in the dirt. After the tree fell, my mark about 2ft too long (maybe because i wasnt holding it exactly level), but thats close enough for me! She ate some crow,  and we had a good laugh.


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## Dogbyte (Apr 23, 2013)

trx250r180 said:


> so if your in the woods with no speed square couldn't you use your axe ? hold it out in front of your sight top and bottom of tree ,then tip it like a tree falling and get close results ?



never tried it that way, but you could still use the axe to make your right triangle. hold it out in front from your eyes to your fist (axe head on your forehead), then grip the axe handle where the knuckles of your fist touched the handle. hold the axe up level with your eyes, and then move around til the tree tops are sighted right to the tip of the axe head. its a make shift 45 degree angle, then turn around from where you are standing and guestimate your standing height, and thats your spot. can do the same thing with any stick (plenty of those laying around), but ive not had the same success, never tried it with an axe. i got a double bit PLUMB that i doubt i could hold up very long that way..:msp_biggrin:


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## tramp bushler (Apr 23, 2013)

You guys r confusing me now.


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## tramp bushler (Apr 23, 2013)

Just cut the ###### thing.


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## TheJollyLogger (Apr 23, 2013)

I had a speed square with a built in level on one side. If i had a guy level it for me from the side, sight the top and add my eye height, it was dead nuts accurate.


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## Dogbyte (Apr 23, 2013)

TheJollyLogger said:


> I had a speed square with a built in level on one side. If i had a guy level it for me from the side, sight the top and add my eye height, it was dead nuts accurate.



i thought about taping a line level to mine, and then using a mirror to where i can see it, kinda like a compass, but i never followed through...i may try that though, haha, i knew i wasnt keeping it dead level.

should also point out it matters how high up you make your back cut, and if the butt jumps away from the stump ect.. the initial point on the ground is equal as the tree stands. if you cut it 3ft up, then roll your point on the ground back 3ft ect...


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## woodchuck357 (Apr 23, 2013)

*You hold the ax head down!*



Dogbyte said:


> never tried it that way, but you could still use the axe to make your right triangle. hold it out in front from your eyes to your fist (axe head on your forehead), then grip the axe handle where the knuckles of your fist touched the handle. hold the axe up level with your eyes, and then move around til the tree tops are sighted right to the tip of the axe head. its a make shift 45 degree angle, then turn around from where you are standing and guestimate your standing height, and thats your spot. can do the same thing with any stick (plenty of those laying around), but ive not had the same success, never tried it with an axe. i got a double bit PLUMB that i doubt i could hold up very long that way..:msp_biggrin:



You were 2 ft short, did you count the stump?


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## Dogbyte (Apr 23, 2013)

woodchuck357 said:


> You were 2 ft short, did you count the stump?



yep. im sure its from me not holding the square level.


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## beastmaster (Apr 24, 2013)

I knew an old guy used a level that had a 45 deg. bubble and he would sight that to the top of the tree. He was dead on. I got an app on my phone that suppose to do it but can't figure it out yet. I get pretty close using my thumb and index finger making a 45deg angle with them and sight that. But if its that critical I'll take a top.


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## tramp bushler (Apr 24, 2013)

Thanks Beast. With your post I finally put it together.


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## Limbrat (May 2, 2013)

hannontree1 said:


> im in florida and we do alot of sandhill pines that get crazy leans to them near and over homes 60' to 90' tall we have to turn them
> we allways use 2 ton come along with wedges to do this works well use throw ball to set lines if not climbing it if you Are climbing your already up there start there and if not sure of it get someone who is to do better safe then sorry:msp_ohmy:



I'm in NW Florida and have plenty of sand pines here too, in fact, they are my bread and butter on removals. They obviously grow in loose, sandy soil and have very little in the way of a tap root, therefore are subject to lean or fall any time the ground gets wet and we get a little wind. Most of the big ones left here have a permanent northwesterly lean from back to back hurricanes Kate and Elena back in '85. ANY TIME there is a danger of a house, fence or anything else jumping into my LZ, I use a pull line. I know there are hotshots out there that think they can drop every tree on a dime and in a perfect world maybe so, but sooner or later..........stuff happens! That stuff can get deep and stinky pretty quick with a strong gust of wind from a bad direction.


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## Leotyn (May 6, 2013)

so if you aren't sure or don't have a couple like this away from obstacles call someone who does.


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## tramp bushler (May 6, 2013)

Can't see the pics


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