# Next Mill



## BobL (Mar 13, 2010)

In 2006 I made this:






In 2007 it was this;





And this - I guess you are sick of seeing this yet again.





In 2008 BIL was upgraded to this





In 2009 BIL got another upgrade to this





Plus I made this





Well it's nearly 3 months into 2010 and the alaskan CS mill building bug has hit again and I'm looking for ideas. A couple of constraints - it has to be small enough to be able to be picked up and carried or wheeled by me 40 yards down a narrow pathway (2'6" wide) to the back of my place where my shop is. I'm also probably largely going to stick to scraps and pieces of ally and steel I already have in my shed. For example I have a real nice set of spare 54" ally rails from the original BIL mill, but I will buy any material if the idea warrants it. For powerheads I have a 441, 066, 076 and 880. I was thinking about something that maybe puts the 076 back into service - I really like using that powerhead. I have bars from 20 to 60", but am also considering a double ender.

What I'm really looking for at this stage is thoughts on "what bugs you about alaskan/CS mills that you have used and how do you think they can be improved"? 

I have a few ideas but I'm just casting the net and seeing what comes up.

Progress will be slow because I will be spending more than 4 months away from home this year.

Cheers


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## splitpost (Mar 13, 2010)

I'me sure Bob whatever you build will be an engineering marvel ,can't wait to see what you come up with


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## BobL (Mar 13, 2010)

splitpost said:


> I'me sure Bob whatever you build will be an engineering marvel ,can't wait to see what you come up with



Thanks SP. I'm surprised no one has posted any ideas though. Surely our mills are not all perfect?


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## Brmorgan (Mar 13, 2010)

Bob, I ran across this photo in another thread:






It's apparently a firefighting demolition saw or something. I thought that grooving the bar like that might be useful for controlling the depth of cut on a Mini-Mill style setup - it would be easy to mark the depth on the bar too. I'd probably go for two ~5/16" grooves rather than one wider one, it would be much easier to keep stable.


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## Daninvan (Mar 13, 2010)

Well, I know my mill is far from perfect, but I think that your mill is pretty close to the ultimate for most of the rest of us! So I see things on your mill (use of Al rather than steel, better oiler, better nose clamp, exhaust redirection, etc) that I need to do on mine. It's hard to envisage steps beyond that!

When I am milling, it's all about doing it faster and more efficiently. I've learned that the biggest part of fast comes from a sharp chain. (I've also learned more recently that improper bar/sprocket maintenance will catch up to you!) 

For me, some small things are that the chain must be able to be sharpened, tightened, and taken on/off without making any adjustments to the mill itself. It would be very handy if the damn thing would stand on its own so I could more easily sharpen the chain on top of the log I was cutting without the thing moving all over the place as I filed it.

Dan


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## Brmorgan (Mar 13, 2010)

I've learned to file my ripping chains from the outside-in if I need to, so I don't have to take the saw off the mill to sharpen anymore no matter what. It's harder to do with chisel chain than semi though, and doesn't do the file's life expectancy any favors, but actually can give a bit cleaner edge.


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## AaronB (Mar 13, 2010)

Anything you can do to make pushing easier? Rollers, etc.

You should just make your own bandsaw mill.


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## gemniii (Mar 13, 2010)

Daninvan said:


> <snip>
> When I am milling, it's all about doing it faster and more efficiently. I've learned that the biggest part of fast comes from a sharp chain. (I've also learned more recently that improper bar/sprocket maintenance will catch up to you!) <snip>


For me the biggest part of speeding the process up is getting everything hauled out and the first cut set up.
If I've got the mill set up for a wide cut it's easier to sharpen on the mill.


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## huskyhank (Mar 13, 2010)

Quick disconnect of mill from the saw.

Faster, easier, simpler depth of cut adjustments.

Nose end chain tensioner.

Roller nose (not sprocket) with internal lubrication attachment.

Light weight, fast attaching and adjusting guide plank/beam.

Mill on a beam or straddle/drop over. (imagine a very very long saw horse over a log with a saw riding on a guide on/under the saw horse)


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## BobL (Mar 14, 2010)

Daninvan said:


> Well, I know my mill is far from perfect, but I think that your mill is pretty close to the ultimate for most of the rest of us! So I see things on your mill (use of Al rather than steel, better oiler, better nose clamp, exhaust redirection, etc) that I need to do on mine. It's hard to envisage steps beyond that!


Sure, but anything you can envisage, even bordering on the whacky, is often a starting point of consideration.



> When I am milling, it's all about doing it faster and more efficiently. I've learned that the biggest part of fast comes from a sharp chain. (I've also learned more recently that improper bar/sprocket maintenance will catch up to you!)


I agree absolutely 100%



> For me, some small things are that the chain must be able to be sharpened, tightened, and taken on/off without making any adjustments to the mill itself. It would be very handy if the damn thing would stand on its own so I could more easily sharpen the chain on top of the log I was cutting without the thing moving all over the place as I filed it.



Twin inboard (and outboard) upright post mills like the GB, that can lay on their side and place the bar in a vertical orientation have a big advantage when sharpening.
Like this;




Even so I still clamp the mill to my workbench to stop it moving.

With my small alaskan with a single upright at each end of the mill I use two clamps like this and clamp onto a slab I partially move off the log.





Nevertheless something to think about for a new mill design - maybe a built in clamp of some kind?


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## BobL (Mar 14, 2010)

AaronB said:


> Anything you can do to make pushing easier? Rollers, etc.


If the chain is sharpened correctly and the log is on a slope it should not be necessary to do much pushing. 

If I thought rollers would make a difference I'd have them on now.
Rollermatic uses a full bed of rollers but that fixes the length of the bar that can be used on his mills. 
Sperber made a variable roller length design back in the 1970's but it's a little clumsy. 
Despite this I haven't given up on rollers and a rethink is always a good idea.



> You should just make your own bandsaw mill.


I have thought about this many times but small bandsaws and Aussie hardwoods are a poor combination and would require the bandsaw to be a lot beefier than the smaller units you folk are using. I keep hearing specs like 4" wide blades and 30-40 horses - this is not something I could build in my back yard. I also don't have the space for the serious output of such a machine.


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## BobL (Mar 14, 2010)

gemniii said:


> For me the biggest part of speeding the process up is getting everything hauled out and the first cut set up.
> If I've got the mill set up for a wide cut it's easier to sharpen on the mill.



Yep agree, setting up takes a lot of time, it reminds me of setting up before exams at school, . . "ya gotta get yer Gonks set up just so"!


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## BobL (Mar 14, 2010)

huskyhank said:


> Quick disconnect of mill from the saw.
> 
> Faster, easier, simpler depth of cut adjustments.
> 
> ...



Now we're talking - all excellent ideas - keep em coming.

Thanks for everyone chipping in on this.


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## Kicker_92 (Mar 14, 2010)

BobL said:


> Thanks SP. I'm surprised no one has posted any ideas though. Surely our mills are not all perfect?




- I like the "clamp onto the bar" style, since it can go from bar to bar with little to no changes. I haven't tried a bolt on style, so take this suggestion with a grain of salt.

- A third or fourth bar mount would be helpful on longer bars. IF you have two at each end, you could pre-stress the bar to eliminate any sag.

- Having a deeper platform with more crossbracing would reduce snipe at the beginning and end of the cuts withough guide rails. Extra bracing will reduce setup for narrow cuts by giving the saw soemthing to ride on.

- Bigger powerhead, if your going to be making the mill from scratch, why not a 250cc+ motor?


Oh, and that depth control on the saw posted is common for firefighting. it lets you cut though the roof or wall sheathing without cutting the structural members underneath,


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## BobL (Mar 14, 2010)

Kicker_92 said:


> - I like the "clamp onto the bar" style, since it can go from bar to bar with little to no changes. I haven't tried a bolt on style, so take this suggestion with a grain of salt.
> 
> - A third or fourth bar mount would be helpful on longer bars. IF you have two at each end, you could pre-stress the bar to eliminate any sag.
> 
> ...



More good ideas - keep em coming!

I'd rep yas all but I have to spread it around.


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## Justsaws (Mar 14, 2010)

Dust protection, collection and use.

2 stroke portable dust collector with the appropriate chutes, hoses and storage for collection off the saw into a container. I do not have one but as I can use all the waste from milling it is on my mind. It would also be nice to reduce the amount of air borne particulate in the working path. Something more specific than the tarp on the ground.

Noise reduction, yep huge mufflers since it rides on rails. That is my next project for the mill.

The use of water for bar lube. Time for some emulsion magic with canola oil, the branded stuff is to spendy. 

That is where my thoughts are on milling these days. My set up is all primitive, steel(heavy) and involves the evil crawl(small trees on the ground) but it works for me so those are the "advancements" I am looking into.


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## Brmorgan (Mar 14, 2010)

As far as dust collection goes, a good 12V pickup heater fan/blower would probably do pretty well, depending on the efficiency of the pickup and tubing. I've spooled them up fairly fast and they can move a lot of air, and as long as you don't go cutting noodles it won't clog up with just dust & small chips. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't withstand a saw's RPM though, so I'm not sure how to go about driving one.

Apart from that, there are quite a few small two-stroke leaf blowers that can be converted to vacuums with bags. One of those would do the job nicely, I'm thinking, but would add considerably more infrastructure.


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## BobL (Mar 14, 2010)

Justsaws said:


> Dust protection, collection and use.
> 
> 2 stroke portable dust collector with the appropriate chutes, hoses and storage for collection off the saw into a container. I do not have one but as I can use all the waste from milling it is on my mind. It would also be nice to reduce the amount of air borne particulate in the working path. Something more specific than the tarp on the ground.


Very Interesting, My concern was mainly having to walk on/thru the sawdust and it constantly building up under my feet so the more of a log I milled, the more sawdust I had to walk over and the more I had to bend over to reach the log and the more I had to raise the log so I didn't have to bend over. This problem kinda disappeared with the 880 muffler mod that blows the sawdust out of the operators walking path.

Following on from a tarp on the ground I have thought about creating a catching dam around the log by placing a trap on the ground and then hooking 3 sides of the tarp up to a half circle of star pickets hammered into the ground around the operator's side of the log. One reason I haven't pursued this is that it could reduce the amount of air movement around the operator leaving the operator standing in more exhaust fumes than are necessary. However I might give this a go one day when there's a decent breeze about.



> Noise reduction, yep huge mufflers since it rides on rails. That is my next project for the mill.


Good idea - and consistent with another idea I have for mill design.



> The use of water for bar lube. Time for some emulsion magic with canola oil, the branded stuff is to spendy.


This was looked at in detail by a couple of us back in Oct of 2007.
http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=54307

Despite some initial promise and positives like a cool clean chain and bar, the water seemed to reduce the amount of oil that was sticking to the bar and chain and caused more (especially bar) wear. The main reason I got into water cooling was to reduce the resin build up on the chain and reduce engine load. Since using the 880 I have had no resin problems, probably because the 880 puts out a max oil flow of twice the that of the 076 (38 ml/min v 19 ml/min) and what I was perceiving as increased load due to resin building up was almost certainly me not sharpening properly. Now I normally run the 880 at max oil flow (38 ml/min) and have the Aux oiler running at about 20 ml/min. When the log gets wider or more resinous I up the aux oiler to about 40 ml/min and the resin does not build up.



> That is where my thoughts are on milling these days. My set up is all primitive, steel(heavy) and involves the evil crawl(small trees on the ground) but it works for me so those are the "advancements" I am looking into.



Thanks for the input.


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## huskyhank (Mar 14, 2010)

A real long bar, 72" perhaps that drops on the log like a guillotine.
It would cut noodles instead of end grain. Obviously the length of log to be cut would be limited by bar length. I think it would be fast.


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## huskyhank (Mar 14, 2010)

Auxiliary fuel and bar oil tanks for making long cuts without refueling. It would involve hoses with threads to screw into the filler holes on the saw.

But then there is always the possibility of a motorcycle engine...........


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## gink595 (Mar 14, 2010)

huskyhank said:


> Auxiliary fuel and bar oil tanks for making long cuts without refueling. It would involve hoses with threads to screw into the filler holes on the saw.
> 
> But then there is always the possibility of a motorcycle engine...........



Now your talking! A 150 hp Yamaha motor turing 12K would be a slick setup!


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## BIG JAKE (Mar 14, 2010)

I'd like to lose the depth adjustment clamps on my Grandberg in favor of a V-notch wheel so I could use allthread and knobs to dial the depth instead of fussing with one clamp at a time. Also a lever throttle possibly, exhaust redirect, and would be nice to be able to remove powerhead only. The V wheel/depth adj would really be nice though.
With the exhaust redirect, though, my concern is vibration and whether or not the muffler can can handle the extra weight outboard without cracking due to vibration. What did you build your pipe out of Bob?


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## Rob D (Mar 14, 2010)

I know the 880 and other large saws are good powerheads but how about adapting a 4 stroke engine that had even more torque and power.

I know there is a similar adaption made for the Peterson and Lucas mills but I've heard the chain speed isn't really fast enough to get full use of those larger engines (this is going on what I've been told and not through experience).

Also some sort of wheel on a hard spring to run on the outside of rough logs - long runners can get stuck on nobs and knots.

Some sort of powered 12 volt winch system to pull the mill up the log for you (somehow easily anchored to the end of the log). But with it working in such a way as linked to the chain speed of the chainsaw i.e. as the chainsaw revs higher it pulls a little harder, if chainspeed drops it pulls slower, if the chainsaw bogs altogether then it stops pulling. This would also have to be operated from where you are next to the saw.

Or a stage further where you start the saw in the cut and then the whole system is automatic until the saw gets to the end! Now that would be something


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## BobL (Mar 14, 2010)

BIG JAKE said:


> I'd like to lose the depth adjustment clamps on my Grandberg in favor of a V-notch wheel so I could use allthread and knobs to dial the depth instead of fussing with one clamp at a time. Also a lever throttle possibly, exhaust redirect, and would be nice to be able to remove powerhead only. The V wheel/depth adj would really be nice though.
> With the exhaust redirect, though, my concern is vibration and whether or not the muffler can can handle the extra weight outboard without cracking due to vibration. What did you build your pipe out of Bob?



I'm not quite sure what you mean by a V-notched wheel Jake?
All thread rods and cranks for cutting depth adjustment are easier to use than bolt only vertical locks especially when taking into account rails etc, but add weight. linking the inboard and outboard all thread height adjustment drivers has been discussed and becomes complicated if various length bars are used on a mill. It's definitely something to think about

Lever and other outboard throttles I think have been developed sufficiently by various members on this site. I still can't get over how intuitive and "right" the motor cycle on my 880 throttle feels, especially given that it rolls the opposite way to the MC but somehow it seems right because it's operated with the left hand.

I think exhaust redirects have a lot of room for development. The pipe on my 880 is just plain 1/8" wall thickness ally. It did develop a crack on it's first day out, almost certainly because I machined away most of the inside weld to fit some inserts and had to be taken back to BIL for a re-weld. It's been good for a year now,


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## BobL (Mar 14, 2010)

Rob D said:


> I know the 880 and other large saws are good powerheads but how about adapting a 4 stroke engine that had even more torque and power.



Having seen the 4 stroke engines close up on Lucas mills this is very, very tempting. Apart from weight being a significant factor with these engines and I don't want to make a bulky rail mill at this time and at the end of the day it has to live on my very small (1/6 acre) suburban house block.



> I know there is a similar adaption made for the Peterson and Lucas mills but I've heard the chain speed isn't really fast enough to get full use of those larger engines (this is going on what I've been told and not through experience).


The Lucas operators that are in the know use 404 and just drop their rakers to cutting angles of around 10º+ and just mow their way through big hard logs. The finish is surprisingly good given the amout of wood they remove in one chain pass.




> Also some sort of wheel on a hard spring to run on the outside of rough logs - long runners can get stuck on nobs and knots.


I'm a big fan of log wheels and agree that log wheel development has some way to go. The use of springs adds weight but is definitely worth considering especially if the spring can replace part of the structure



> Some sort of powered 12 volt winch system to pull the mill up the log for you (somehow easily anchored to the end of the log). But with it working in such a way as linked to the chain speed of the chainsaw i.e. as the chainsaw revs higher it pulls a little harder, if chainspeed drops it pulls slower, if the chainsaw bogs altogether then it stops pulling. This would also have to be operated from where you are next to the saw.
> 
> Or a stage further where you start the saw in the cut and then the whole system is automatic until the saw gets to the end! Now that would be something



I've tried using a hand winch and even thought a few times about adding a powered winch. I didn't like the hand winch because it took away too much of the feel of the saw/mill from the operator especially when things get a little tricky. Instead of doing more work with winches I decided to put my development efforts into chain sharpening and setting raker depths so the saw self feeds as much as possible, and simple equipment to lift logs onto slopes so minimal or no pushing is needed. One major limitation with the self feeding of a mill on a slope are to Carriage or logosol type mills where getting the logs up on a slope is not practical. All that aside a small auto winch with feedback like you describe sounds like it is worth exploring. Sitting back with a beer and an RC hand piece sounds like my kind of milling


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## Rob D (Mar 14, 2010)

BobL said:


> Having seen the 4 stroke engines close up on Lucas mills this is very, very tempting. Apart from weight being a significant factor with these engines and I don't want to make a bulky rail mill at this time and at the end of the day it has to live on my very small (1/6 acre) suburban house block.
> 
> 
> The Lucas operators that are in the know use 404 and just drop their rakers to cutting angles of around 10º+ and just mow their way through big hard logs. The finish is surprisingly good given the amout of wood they remove in one chain pass.
> ...



That sounds like my idea of milling as well! Thinking along the lines of a portable system where the mill still rides on the top line of the log as usual but the winch does all the work and works with the saw ... no idea how it could be done though!


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## BlueRider (Mar 14, 2010)

The last time I was out milling A guy came up and told me about a hydrolic chainsaw he has for cleaning up around a local creek, he even went and got it so he could show it to me. It has been in the back of my mind along ith a pic I once saw of an under water logger cutting down/up trees that were at the bottom of a man made lake. This seems like a more efficent way to take advantage of the HP and torque of a 4 stroke engine in a milling application. the motor and pump combo could be on wheels and placed away and down wind from the log. The actual saw is amazingly light weight. The one I saw had a 18" or 20 " bar and the bar weighd as much or more than the power head. I don't know if a hydrolic saw with enough power to handle a 60" bar exists but I have no doubt a mill could be made by useing an appropriate size hydrilic motor. I almost forgot that the saw I saw had quick relaese fitting on the hoses.

My second idea for you Bob is to come up with a way to hold the saw so it is not supported by the log but rather by a beam next to the log. This idea was sparked by a set up a friend of mine is working on for a custom made rock cuting/shaping saw/grinder. My frined found a set of thompson linear bearings that ride on a 6' long bar that is 3"x3" The thing is monserous and lools like it could handle a ton or more. Thompsone bearings are very expensing but they have no slop or play. If you bolt a saw to one it could become an interesting mill


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## huskyhank (Mar 14, 2010)

BlueRider said:


> snipped.....
> 
> I don't know if a hydrolic saw with enough power to handle a 60" bar exists but I have no doubt a mill could be made by unuing an appropriate size hydrilic motor. I almost forgot that the saw I saw had quick relaese fitting on the hoses which would make it even more portable.



I'm pretty sure the feller bunchers, delimbers and processors used in logging are all hydraulic. Imagine a six foot bar running 3/4 inch chain with massive power. It'll buck a big log in seconds. But we're getting into some pretty serious gear now.


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## BobL (Mar 15, 2010)

BlueRider said:


> The last time I was out milling A guy came up and told me about a hydrolic chainsaw he has for cleaning up around a local creek, he even went and got it so he could show it to me. It has been in the back of my mind along ith a pic I once saw of an under water logger cutting down/up trees that were at the bottom of a man made lake. This seems like a more efficent way to take advantage of the HP and torque of a 4 stroke engine in a milling application. the motor and pump combo could be on wheels and placed away and down wind from the log. The actual saw is amazingly light weight. The one I saw had a 18" or 20 " bar and the bar weighd as much or more than the power head. I don't know if a hydrolic saw with enough power to handle a 60" bar exists but I have no doubt a mill could be made by useing an appropriate size hydrilic motor. I almost forgot that the saw I saw had quick relaese fitting on the hoses.


After driving this thing around for a while (it's basically a 23 HP hydraulic pack on wheels) I thought about how it would fare driving a bar and chain. 





They do come with solid wheels and could for example be placed on a concrete slab and rigged to drive alonside the log holding a hydraulically driven bar and chain. Unfortunately one can't exactly lay concrete alongside every log one wants to mill. 



> My second idea for you Bob is to come up with a way to hold the saw so it is not supported by the log but rather by a beam next to the log. This idea was sparked by a set up a friend of mine is working on for a custom made rock cuting/shaping saw/grinder. My frined found a set of thompson linear bearings that ride on a 6' long bar that is 3"x3" The thing is monserous and lools like it could handle a ton or more. Thompsone bearings are very expensing but they have no slop or play. If you bolt a saw to one it could become an interesting mill


This is basically a rail mill of which there are quite a few variants around. Railomatic had several designs that were quite portable and worked well for him.
Here's one of the few photos left on AS from when he was a regular poster in 2007.





My minimill that rides on T-section RHS beams can already operate in this fashion and is even strong and adjustable enough to hold an 880 in a horizontal orientation. 




It would just be a matter of making an independent stand for the rail to get it working fully as a rail mill BUT it's not ideal for running on a slope so I haven't really pursued this mode of operation.


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## tlbsg (Mar 15, 2010)

hmmm bob asking for ideas for chainsaw mill? maybe you have perfected it to the max why not look at your own dedicated slabber bigger 25 hp 4 stroke u say space may be a problem my dedicated slabber will fit on a 6 x 4 trailer and rails unbolted and on a rack on top of trailer takes up little space


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## BobL (Mar 15, 2010)

tlbsg said:


> hmmm bob asking for ideas for chainsaw mill? maybe you have perfected it to the max why not look at your own dedicated slabber bigger 25 hp 4 stroke u say space may be a problem my dedicated slabber will fit on a 6 x 4 trailer and rails unbolted and on a rack on top of trailer takes up little space



I honestly don't even have space for a trailer right now unless I leave it on the verge and in my neighborhood that is not a good idea.


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## rayvil01 (Mar 15, 2010)

*Depth adjustment*

The biggest pain for me with the stock Alaskan is the depth adjustment. The u-bolts work fine, but are a pain.

I keep thinking back to a little South Bend metal lathe I ran back in my Navy days. To adjust the tailstock position, there was a 90-degree camlock lever. To move the tailstock, throw the camlock open, adust the position, then throw it the 90-degrees to shut it. Took seconds. Something in that vein for depth adjustment would be awesome. It would take one on both posts. But, it'd be worth it.

Thanks for starting the thread. 

Is your leg all healed up?


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## BobL (Mar 15, 2010)

rayvil01 said:


> The biggest pain for me with the stock Alaskan is the depth adjustment. The u-bolts work fine, but are a pain.


Yeap - I agree, that's why I used camlocks on the BIL mill and have to say they work a treat but the way the cams lock the verticals on the BIL mill is a tad complex - read on . . . . 



> I keep thinking back to a little South Bend metal lathe I ran back in my Navy days. To adjust the tailstock position, there was a 90-degree camlock lever. To move the tailstock, throw the camlock open, adust the position, then throw it the 90-degrees to shut it. Took seconds. Something in that vein for depth adjustment would be awesome. It would take one on both posts. But, it'd be worth it.


Ah ha - this is exactly what I am planning, a simple off centre camlock very similar to those lathes. BTW I just scored one of those model A South Bend metal working lathes for free. I just need to convert it from 3 phase to single phase and find a space for it in my shed and I will be using it to turn the new cams!



> Thanks for starting the thread.


Yeah I though it would liven up the discussion a bit.



> Is your leg all healed up?


Yep leg is fine. We're off travelling in 3 weeks and just started a stair climbing routine to try and get some fitness up.


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## Andrew96 (Mar 15, 2010)

Bob...glad your leg is better. So hot down there you're doing some design thinking? 
I'm thinking about working a trick nose to a bar. It would adjust chain tension via spring preload (showed up recently on a post), drive an oiler (avoid gravity feed) inject the oil right into the bar groove, still hold the end of the mill. 

Also, Hooking an extra fuel and oil reservoir to the vent lines similar to the way you vacuum feed a baby generator for extended run times. 

I find the setup for each pass kills the most time in a milling day.


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## Daninvan (Mar 15, 2010)

BobL said:


> I'm a big fan of log wheels and agree that log wheel development has some way to go. The use of springs adds weight but is definitely worth considering especially if the spring can replace part of the structure



Even skateboard wheels can sometimes get hung up on the bigger knobs/protrusions on a log. I find that because the mill is being pulled into the log so hard by the action of the chain's cutting, the wheels get stuck rather than rolling around anything but a modest size knob. It is then necessary to manhandle the mill a bit to get around these things, this often results in the mill 'diving' down the back the protrusion and bogging, which in turn usually results in a gouge on the surface of the slab.

So yeah, I vote for better log wheels! I wonder if it's a simple as a larger diameter wheel?

Dan


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## BobL (Mar 15, 2010)

Daninvan said:


> Even skateboard wheels can sometimes get hung up on the bigger knobs/protrusions on a log. I find that because the mill is being pulled into the log so hard by the action of the chain's cutting, the wheels get stuck rather than rolling around anything but a modest size knob. It is then necessary to manhandle the mill a bit to get around these things, this often results in the mill 'diving' down the back the protrusion and bogging, which in turn usually results in a gouge on the surface of the slab.



Yep - yep - yep 

Unless I'm after a fully natural edge, protrusions are not that big of a problem as I just cut them off with a small saw as a part of the setup. Dips are more difficult to deal with because the wheels bog down inside them. This is where bigger wheels could help.


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## huskyhank (Mar 15, 2010)

BobL said:


> Yep - yep - yep
> 
> Unless I'm after a fully natural edge, protrusions are not that big of a problem as I just cut them off with a small saw as a part of the setup. Dips are more difficult to deal with because the wheels bog down inside them. This is where bigger wheels could help.



How about a rail on the side of the log to let the mill slide easier? A 2" X 1/2" piece of lumber is all you'd need.


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## BobL (Mar 15, 2010)

huskyhank said:


> How about a rail on the side of the log to let the mill slide easier? A 2" X 1/2" piece of lumber is all you'd need.



If a rail has to be screwed on/off the side log for every cut then I'd live with cutting off the protrusions and/or manhandling the mill in and out of the dips.

mill wheels can be arranged to run on regular log rails like this.




This has two potential problems 
- it moves the line of mill reaction even further away from the bar which continually racks the mill and forces the mill rails to jam onto the log rails
- it places a lot of stress on the log rails requiring them to be very firmly fixed to the log. I have tried doing this and the mill/saw vibe has continually vibrated the log rails loose.

One possibility is to add a bracket onto the log rails such that the bracket (in red) sits up against the side of the log. 




The wheels can then ride against this bracket and the log takes the reaction force of the mill/saw. This requires extra setup but would work.

One problem with any rail or bracket against the side of logs is that most logs I cut are just not regularly shaped enough to make it easy to do this. Many have branch union fanning ends or bends and making a bracket adaptable enough to cover even some of these possibilities will be quite difficult.

Here's a typical maneuver around a 50" wide fanning branch union. At some point there were no wheels riding on the log.


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## Brmorgan (Mar 15, 2010)

Honestly I've never really had a hard time with the Alaskan digging into the side of the log for the top half - it's always once I'm cutting below center that the square edge of the depth post creates problems. It would be quite easy to build a jig to hang over the edge in this case because you could put your guide rail(s) right up against the inboard edge of the log.


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## huskyhank (Mar 15, 2010)

I've found that tilting the guide so the saw side is lower helps a lot. The saw then has to pull itself up to the log and is not bearing against it so hard.






I'm not sure I'd ever bother to screw a plank to the side.
I don't have wheels and don't really want any. 
I'm just brain storming.


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## BobL (Mar 16, 2010)

huskyhank said:


> I've found that tilting the guide so the saw side is lower helps a lot. The saw then has to pull itself up to the log and is not bearing against it so hard.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Brain storming is good,  we need more brainstorming, how else can we call ourselves milling geeks unless we brainstorm?

Here's an example of a log with one side being all lumps and bumps and the other being relatively smooth. 
When we oriented the log we deliberately chose the smooth side of the log to be on the left when facing downslope. Luckily we access to a tractor with forks.


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## Brmorgan (Mar 21, 2010)

Bob, I found this thing in the scrap a couple days ago:











It's a frame from one of those "sliding" exercise machines (you can see the foot rests at the right-hand end). I have the other parts too but I doubt they'd be of much use. Its shape caught my eye right away for possible modification for use as a mill frame. I haven't measured it but it's about 5' long as-is, so it might be a good one if I ever get myself a 60" bar for the 090 for bigger logs. It isn't something that would get a whole lot of use, so I'm not really worried about its being steel instead of aluminum. I'd probably consider welding some small channel steel to the bottom of the rails to make them square on the bottom instead of round. It'll likely be a while before I get around to doing anything with it, but I thought it was worth picking up anyway. It even has quick adjustment for length! LOL.


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## Old Hilly (Mar 22, 2010)

I dunno Bob, you have the right tool sitting there holding that log!
All you need to do is drop the bucket off "Ernie Dingo-Loader" and make a bracket that will hold a fair-dinkum big-bugger chainsaw with at least a 25HP 4 stroke motor. The saw needs to hang out the side of the machine, not stick out the front like a cranky Rhino. 
Then all you need to do is line the saw up to the log and drive Ernie forward slowly, cutting as you go. When you get to the end, lift the saw over the log, reverse back to the start and make another cut. You could always use the auxiliary hydraulic outlets on Ernie to drive the saw instead of driving a ditch-witch thing and that would save the cost of a petrol motor. This is getting better by the minuite!
Dennis.


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## BobL (Mar 22, 2010)

Old Hilly said:


> I dunno Bob, you have the right tool sitting there holding that log!
> All you need to do is drop the bucket off "Ernie Dingo-Loader" and make a bracket that will hold a fair-dinkum big-bugger chainsaw with at least a 25HP 4 stroke motor. The saw needs to hang out the side of the machine, not stick out the front like a cranky Rhino.
> Then all you need to do is line the saw up to the log and drive Ernie forward slowly, cutting as you go. When you get to the end, lift the saw over the log, reverse back to the start and make another cut. You could always use the auxiliary hydraulic outlets on Ernie to drive the saw instead of driving a ditch-witch thing and that would save the cost of a petrol motor. This is getting better by the minuite!
> Dennis.



I don't even need a separate saw - the Dingo has a 23 HP hydraulic power pack built into it - it just needs a hydraulic chainsaw attachment. Not cheap though, the Dingo is not mine and it's not likely to work all that well in the bush or hanging a 60" bar out in the breeze with nothing supporting the other end


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## Old Hilly (Mar 22, 2010)

Bob, you NEED a Dingo! It will save your back heaps, carry out all the junk from your shed, landscape the garden for Mrs. Bob, bury the kids if they drive you mad:greenchainsaw:, mix all that sawdust into compost that can be sold.......Then you can make a frame that will support the end of that 60" bar and carry the suplementary oiler as well. I admit the Dingo is not all that good in the bush but they beat the living heck out of a wheelbarrow!
Better take me medication and get both feet back on the floor.
Dennis (forever dreaming).


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## BobL (Mar 22, 2010)

Old Hilly said:


> Bob, you NEED a Dingo! It will save your back heaps, carry out all the junk from your shed, landscape the garden for Mrs. Bob, bury the kids if they drive you mad:greenchainsaw:, mix all that sawdust into compost that can be sold.......Then you can make a frame that will support the end of that 60" bar and carry the suplementary oiler as well. I admit the Dingo is not all that good in the bush but they beat the living heck out of a wheelbarrow!
> Better take me medication and get both feet back on the floor.
> Dennis (forever dreaming).



Oh I know I definitely need a Dingo,  It and me bonded in about 30 seconds and I can now drive it as well as the owners. At one point Owner Geoff got it stuck/bogged in a swamp and he walked back to the top of the ridge to get his pickup to pull it out. Meanwhile I managed to unbog it and drove up the hill meeting him on the way down.

They, also have a heap of attachments for it like the bucket, two different size augers, dozer blade, trencher, leveler, water pump, etc


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