# should i buy this climbing kit or piece together?



## mellonhs (Feb 12, 2013)

Here is a climbing kit I'm interested in buying. What would you guys recommend? I was going to get this combo climb kit. The premium.
Custom Spur and Rope Tree Climbing Kits

So then I started to see what the diff is in that and this. Premium rope kit.
Tree Climbing Kits: Save Big on Arborist Supplies at WesSpur

And I gathered the only diff in the combo kit and the premium rope kit is just the spurs... Am I right? And that would mean the spurs are the extra $400 in the price... So I started to price diff spurs and I can get a decent aluminum pair for $200... 

So is a kit the wrong way to go? 
If not should I just get the premium rope kit and buy spurs Sep and save $200?


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## Zale (Feb 12, 2013)

What do you plan on doing?


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## KenJax Tree (Feb 12, 2013)

Sent you a PM on the spurs


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## mellonhs (Feb 12, 2013)

Zale said:


> What do you plan on doing?


Learning Srt... With rope wrench. I've only spurred up a tree with my previous employer


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## fearofpavement (Feb 18, 2013)

Lots of people leaving the business and thus a bunch of used climbing stuff on the market. Just getting started? Maybe used is the way to go... If you don't like what you have, sell it later for what you paid.


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## mellonhs (Feb 22, 2013)

fearofpavement said:


> Lots of people leaving the business and thus a bunch of used climbing stuff on the market. Just getting started? Maybe used is the way to go... If you don't like what you have, sell it later for what you paid.



ehhh i dont want to buy used climbing equipment... Doesnt sound safe IMO


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## Zale (Feb 22, 2013)

If you want to buy new everything, take your time and try out others people gear if you can. Buying the kit will give you everything you need but you might find out you don't like certain items or you really don't need it. Its very easy to become a gear junkie.


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## fearofpavement (Feb 25, 2013)

mellonhs said:


> ehhh i dont want to buy used climbing equipment... Doesnt sound safe IMO



So buy new and after you have it for a week you're climbing in used equipment, eh?


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## fearofpavement (Feb 25, 2013)

part of the combo kit is a flipline. Does that come with the rope kit? If not, those can run close to $100 depending.


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## Incomplete (Feb 25, 2013)

fearofpavement said:


> So buy new and after you have it for a week you're climbing in used equipment, eh?



Even Jepson says "don't use another man's gear". Shock loads, cycles to failure, how often was the gear left lying on concrete, in the back of the truck in the rain, etc. all that. For life support, best to start fresh or from a personally known source.

Put yours together from scratch after you've done your research/asked you specific questions. A little more work but like what was said, you may end up with something you don't like otherwise. I HIGHLY recommend a 2-in-1 lanyard over other types. For me the cons of "cut-proof" lanyard outweighed the pros; besides KISS and TieInTwiceS so I have this and am going to get an 8' secondary: http://www.treestuff.com/store/catalog.asp?category_id=160&item=534

And don't worry C-GAD is normal :msp_thumbup:


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## joezilla11 (Feb 25, 2013)

The more I've researched the more I found that I can piece together a similar kit for close to the same price or lower depending on your needs/wants. Wesspur has a good split tail kit, add a throw line kit, flipline and a rope etc. they do have different flipline kits so you can pick your own rather getting one because its in the kit. Search their site and they have a coupon for a free e2e prusik. Also if you order a catalog from sherrill you get a coupon code for 10 percent off, took 2 weeks to get it tho. Hope this helps


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## mellonhs (Feb 25, 2013)

Thanks. Yeh I pieced together a kit and came out $300 cheaper but that's cuz I put in a diff saddle. Oh and that's without spurs too... And I'm talking about just the rope kit. Not combo. If I add spurs to make it a combo kit ill b about $500 cheaper than their combo kit. Now I just have to pull the trigger lol


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## VA-Sawyer (Feb 25, 2013)

Have you actually worn the saddle you are thinking of buying? Every butt fits different in a given saddle. You may hate the same one I think fits me the best, or the other way around. Don't buy on price, the $200 difference is nothing over the life of the saddle. Having one that allows you to do just 1 extra tree a week will make up that price difference in the first month.
My suggestion is to check out a local supplier of tree gear such as Vermeer/Sherrill or one of the independents. Most of them have a means of letting you hang from a rope to test different saddles. Don't be afraid to change the adjustments to get the best fit. You should be able to just hang in the saddle for at least 30 minutes without things going numb, or getting painful. I think it took 3 saddles, and a number of adjustments to find one I was truly comfortable in. 

As for biners, climbing lines, rigging gear etc. I have no problem getting them mail order to save a bit of money, but when it comes to the saddle, TRY before you BUY!

Rick


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## VA-Sawyer (Feb 25, 2013)

I see that you are just over an hour from ATL. There are a few nice tree supply stores there that you can visit. It is easy to get the 'kid in a candy store' feeling when looking at all the choices available. Get actual hands on feel of ropes and gear while you are there, and make notes for future purchases. It will pay off in the long run.
Rick


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## mellonhs (Feb 25, 2013)

VA-Sawyer said:


> I see that you are just over an hour from ATL. There are a few nice tree supply stores there that you can visit. It is easy to get the 'kid in a candy store' feeling when looking at all the choices available. Get actual hands on feel of ropes and gear while you are there, and make notes for future purchases. It will pay off in the long run.
> Rick



So vermeer will have saddles and stuff in stock? There is one in Marietta. I will go down there and check them out before I do any buying. I will call them in the morn to see what they have in stock and try to get down there at the end of the week! Haha here comes the kid in a candy store syndrome! I'm sure I will walk out of there with more than what I walked in there intending on getting!!


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## VA-Sawyer (Feb 26, 2013)

I was making trips from here to Williamsburg, VA every few months when I first started climbing. Stopped at Vermeer and talked to one of the sales guys in there who did climbing tree work on the side. ( He was full time climber before working for Vermeer ) Spent a few hours hanging in different saddles and picking his brain from time to time. Was serious about starting my own tree business and had some work I could do in VA that wouldn't interfere with the tree guy I was working for here in NC. My first order from Sherrill was just over $3000 and I earned back more than 3/4 of that on the next trip to VA. I understand 'kid in a candy store' very well.


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## mellonhs (Feb 26, 2013)

VA-Sawyer said:


> I was making trips from here to Williamsburg, VA every few months when I first started climbing. Stopped at Vermeer and talked to one of the sales guys in there who did climbing tree work on the side. ( He was full time climber before working for Vermeer ) Spent a few hours hanging in different saddles and picking his brain from time to time. Was serious about starting my own tree business and had some work I could do in VA that wouldn't interfere with the tree guy I was working for here in NC. My first order from Sherrill was just over $3000 and I earned back more than 3/4 of that on the next trip to VA. I understand 'kid in a candy store' very well.




I called this morning. The guy recommended that I come on a Friday cuz that's when they will have a full inventory and more saddles to test. Won't be able to make it this Friday so I will go next Friday...


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## VA-Sawyer (Feb 28, 2013)

Well Dude, you have 6 more days to come to your senses before the addiction gets you. Once you start climbing and buying gear, it is too late. Best of luck to you.
Rick


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## smokey01 (Feb 28, 2013)

mellonhs said:


> So vermeer will have saddles and stuff in stock? There is one in Marietta. ....


This goes for anyone in ATL or nearby, you are welcome to come try out any of the stuff I have, (couple of Rope Wrenches, Unicender, Rig, CELanyard, steel lanyards, Wesspur premium combo kit, ropes kernmantle, double braid, 16 strand etc. etc..... I'm pretty much an addicted gear junkie and have various types of gear and some nice trees to climb including a spar you can practice using spikes on.


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## VA-Sawyer (Mar 8, 2013)

Time is up...... So tell us, did you wise up or are you another tree junkie like the rest of us?

Rick


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## 2treeornot2tree (Mar 8, 2013)

smokey01 said:


> This goes for anyone in ATL or nearby, you are welcome to come try out any of the stuff I have, (couple of Rope Wrenches, Unicender, Rig, CELanyard, steel lanyards, Wesspur premium combo kit, ropes kernmantle, double braid, 16 strand etc. etc..... I'm pretty much an addicted gear junkie and have various types of gear and some nice trees to climb including a spar you can practice using spikes on.



I was in your neck of the woods a couple weeks ago picking up a stump grinder from global equipment exporters. Damn it, I could have stop and made fun of you in person, wait I mean I could have meet you. :hmm3grin2orange:


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## smokey01 (Mar 8, 2013)

2treeornot2tree said:


> I was in your neck of the woods a couple weeks ago picking up a stump grinder from global equipment exporters. Damn it, I could have stop and made fun of you in person, wait I mean I could have meet you. :hmm3grin2orange:


That's too bad you probably would have enjoyed yourself plus you could show me how to use My new hitchhiker.


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## Pelorus (Mar 8, 2013)

What's going on - your gear inventory is lacking a ZigZag, Smokey. 
And I don't want to hear no measly not-midline attachable / not SRT compatible excuses!


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## smokey01 (Mar 8, 2013)

Pelorus said:


> What's going on - your gear inventory is lacking a ZigZag, Smokey.
> And I don't want to hear no measly not-midline attachable / not SRT compatible excuses!



It's because I have the Zignex System that does exactly the same thing including not being midline attachable and it costs a lot less.
I forgot to mention that it is also SRT compatible


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## Pelorus (Mar 8, 2013)

I forgot about your Zignex! Have to made any further mods or upgrades to the prototype?
If somebody on another forum sees it, it will probably get re-named the "X"nex Climbing System.
Btw, my ZigZag is lovely; very pretty indeed. Even just looking at it puts me in a happy place.


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## smokey01 (Mar 12, 2013)

Pelorus said:


> I forgot about your Zignex! Have to made any further mods or upgrades to the prototype?
> If somebody on another forum sees it, it will probably get re-named the "X"nex Climbing System.
> Btw, my ZigZag is lovely; very pretty indeed. Even just looking at it puts me in a happy place.



Hey Dave, good to hear you are loving the ZigZag, I do hear great things about it, sounds like the ultimate in smooth.
Have you tried it with the RW yet, that looks like a real sweat deal making it SRT and DdRT.
I did do a little change to the connection point on the Tennex TEC, which works pretty well. But as you know it is all just an experiment and helps me understand how systems work. It will never be produced as there is NO money in it for manufactures and marketers, for $1.95 in US dollars who would bother. 
I'll watch for your posts on the "another forum". 
Cheers

View attachment 284127


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## smokey01 (Mar 12, 2013)

Pelorus said:


> If somebody on another forum sees it, it will probably get re-named the "X"nex Climbing System.


We did talk about it over there, under the subject of " Open source innovation and public domain" and as usual got some intelligent feedback.










.


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## Guran (Mar 12, 2013)

smokey01 said:


> This goes for anyone in ATL or nearby, you are welcome to come try out any of the stuff I have, (couple of Rope Wrenches, Unicender, Rig, CELanyard, steel lanyards, Wesspur premium combo kit, ropes kernmantle, double braid, 16 strand etc. etc..... I'm pretty much an addicted gear junkie and have various types of gear and some nice trees to climb including a spar you can practice using spikes on.



Nice offer Smokey. Too bad I live half way around the world from where you are..... :msp_smile:


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## 2treeornot2tree (Mar 12, 2013)

smokey01 said:


> Hey Dave, good to hear you are loving the ZigZag, I do hear great things about it, sounds like the ultimate in smooth.
> Have you tried it with the RW yet, that looks like a real sweat deal making it SRT and DdRT.
> I did do a little change to the connection point on the Tennex TEC, which works pretty well. But as you know it is all just an experiment and helps me understand how systems work. It will never be produced as there is NO money in it for manufactures and marketers, for $1.95 in US dollars who would bother.
> I'll watch for your posts on the "another forum".
> ...




You CAN NOT use the zig zag SRT. Others have tried even though petzl says do not use it SRT and now there is a issue with it that is holding up more coming onto the market because of people not being able to read.


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## smokey01 (Mar 12, 2013)

Guran said:


> Nice offer Smokey. Too bad I live half way around the world from where you are..... :msp_smile:


Yep and I know is nice there. 
If you ever get this way you would be welcome. I have about 100 aces of all kinds of hardwoods and pines available to climb, the equipment to use and a place to stay if anyone needs it. (Oh.........and a nice chair on top of a tall spar you can take a photo in and send it home to your friends for a laugh.)

Cheers











.


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## smokey01 (Mar 12, 2013)

2treeornot2tree said:


> You CAN NOT use the zig zag SRT. Others have tried even though petzl says do not use it SRT and now there is a issue with it that is holding up more coming onto the market because of people not being able to read.



Interesting, what are the issues that the ZigZag is having? It looks so cool!
Ya, reading and following instructions can be a challenge sometimes. Reminds me of trying to put together my outdoor BBQ, damn thing almost took flying lessons. (and who over there is China does those translations!!) 

I understand what you are saying, complex that issue of can and cannot I think.
I am sure Petzl could make one SRT just by adding some more zigs and zags, just like you can make a VT work SRT by adding more voldotrain's and more tresses, just does not manage well. Appears to me that with the current number of zags and zigs the tool handles friction well in the 100+- pound range, just not sure why the tool would care if it came via a branch overhead or a RW or some other device overhead. I can, on the other hand, understand that the product liability lawyers would have some thoughts.


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## Pelorus (Mar 12, 2013)

A 275 lb climber DdRT on a friction saver would be applying (approximately) the same amount of tension to the ZigZag as a 140 lb climber SRT? One would think the device would be designed and tested to be able to handle a broad weight spectrum, so I'm not sure what is going on.


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## smokey01 (Mar 12, 2013)

Pelorus said:


> A 275 lb climber DdRT on a friction saver would be applying (approximately) the same amount of tension to the ZigZag as a 140 lb climber SRT? One would think the device would be designed and tested to be able to handle a broad weight spectrum, so I'm not sure what is going on.


That is a good point and it would be interesting to know what that the outer limits to that spectrum are. Probably akin to what most know when you deal with a Blakes hitch and a "heavy" climber, it starts to lock up and they need additional wraps. 
I would imagine that the ZigZag just gets to the point that you can't release it or get it to function smoothly. (Telling that 275 lb climber to miss a meal or two would help too. :msp_smile 

I do see on the Petzl instruction sheet 
 page 18, info abut it needing added friction SRT......

"Precautions The ZIGZAG is not *designed* for working in single mode. *In this configuration*, adding a braking system is essential"...

That seems to open some doors.............but I don't know.........I still think they look cool!


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## smokey01 (Mar 12, 2013)

Pelorus said:


> A 275 lb climber DdRT on a friction saver would be applying (approximately) the same amount of tension to the ZigZag as a 140 lb climber SRT? One would think the device would be designed and tested to be able to handle a broad weight spectrum, so I'm not sure what is going on.




Just some more food for thought........

Page 4.........Petzl

"Working load limit: 140 kg/one person. This product must not be pushed beyond its limits, nor be used for any purpose
other than that for which it is designed." 140kg=309 pounds (YaThink I might just be there if I keep putting more gear on my belt)


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## 2treeornot2tree (Mar 12, 2013)

its a issue of it over extending because of a different pull angle being srt vs drt. Because of this different angle, the stainless plates rub on the alum side plates. There is another thread on this showing the damage.


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## smokey01 (Mar 12, 2013)

2treeornot2tree said:


> its a issue of it over extending because of a different pull angle being srt vs drt. Because of this different angle, the stainless plates rub on the alum side plates. There is another thread on this showing the damage.


Oh I see, I did see the picture you refer to but not being that familiar with the zigzag I could not tell what the damage was. It does make total sense I can see how that angle would be off for SRT. Thanks for explaining that to me. 
I guess I will keep working on my Unicender mods.


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