# Burning unseasoned red oak



## Mtk (Nov 20, 2010)

Hello all,

First I wanted to say what a great site this is. I have been lurking for some time now but have a question that I have not seen answered. It might be here just did not see it. I just got a load (about 10 cords) of red oak log's. I have about three cords split and stacked (like a tic tac toe board). I was wondering what would be potential problems with burning it 1-2 months after it was split. It is stacked in a sunny spot with good air circulation and temps between 30-55. I know I will not get the max btu's out of it but not sure if there are any hazards that could come up. Also not sure if you need to know but I am burning in a fireplace extrodinair 36. For anyone that does not know about them, it is a sealed fire box that has a blower that circulates the air around the outside of the fire box and push's the air into the house. 
Thanks


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## Mtk (Nov 20, 2010)

Thanks. It keeps my house toasty... Its nice because it stops my house from having drafts. When you talk about creosote build up, what is a acceptable amount in the chimney? I did have my chimney cleaned at the start of the season.


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## Ductape (Nov 20, 2010)

Problem with oak is it really takes two years to dry properly. It'll burn, yes, but it will tend to be a creosote factory. Keep an eye on your flue...... creosote leads to chimney fires and potential death.


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## branchbuzzer (Nov 20, 2010)

Do you have anything else to burn that's seasoned besides the oak? You're probably going to have an awful lot of trouble getting it to burn well without something else to help it along and keep it lit. Oak has lots of water in it when green. Combine that with it being dense wood and you have a very tough to burn stick of wood on it's own. The best way, other than just waiting for it to season, is to be using something else as a helper to keep it ignited, even if it's so called "junk wood" like poplar or the like. If you have to break down and buy some dry wood, that might be better than constantly tending a cold and smoky fire made of green wood.


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## jester8118 (Nov 20, 2010)

it's ok to burn green if thats all ya got. just alittle hard to get going. 
Welcome to the site!


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## Pulp Friction (Nov 20, 2010)

Split it thin and stack it loose. That will expedite the drying quite a bit. Sure the thinner pieces will burn up faster but you will get overall more heat out of each cord that way. 

I've had some sample pieces of red oak go from 23 pounds each down to 13 pounds from green to seasoned, for the same piece! That's 5 quarts of water for each split wedge! Now imagine loading 4 pieces into your firebox. That's 5 gallons of water with each loading! Fortunately the greatest water loss seems to occur during the initial weeks/months after being split.


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## wdchuck (Nov 20, 2010)

Red oak....it holds on to its moisture like no other. 

Did logs have bark on them? 
Were they dead standing? 

If they were live trees this year, then I would not recommend burning them, wait until next year if at all possible. 

If you were relying on this wood to heat this winter then my advice would be to get a fire going with known dried wood, then add a couple small(2x2x3x16) splits and see if they boil on the cut ends, if they do, then wait a couple weeks and try another sample. 

One way to accelerate the drying process is to get a cord of wood stacked on pallets with plastic sheeting(even garbage bags) on the ground to create a barrier, then surround the wood with styrofoam board and allow enough room for a dehumidifier. Let that run for a couple weeks, then take a couple pieces and see how they burn, it should be much better. You'll be amazed at the water coming out of the machine. 

All the best.


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## dmlefevre (Nov 21, 2010)

Beautiful country out in Montauk, don't think you're neighbors will like the smoke you'd produce. Wait if you can, it burns so well when seasoned.


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## Swamp Yankee (Nov 21, 2010)

Red Oak is tough

If it was an OWB you might have a chance but red oak that green is going to be real hard to burn. If you have some real seasoned wood you could try mixing it in.

It might help if you could get the red oak in a dry, warm environment for a couple weeks prior to burning, but that's a band aid solution at best. 

I know you don't want to near it, but I think you're better off finding some wood farther along for this heating season and saving the oak for next year when you can get much more btu production.

Keep that wood covered on top at least. Red oak is like a sponge. Even if you get it dry, one good soaking and you're back to square one.

Take Care


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## MNGuns (Nov 21, 2010)

I would buy seasoned wood before I tried to burn green oak, or any wood for that matter. Water just does not burn very well.


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## stint (Nov 21, 2010)

Agree with all above cautions about resulting creosote

Another BIG consideration for me is the *wasted heat* when burning wet wood; especially oak

A significant amount of the heat of burning must be used to remove the moisture above the beloved 20% number

In effect you are taking one of the best heat producing wood available and by burning it wet, you reduce it to one of the worst

My inclination would be to get some dry wood for this year and allow that beautiful oak to season and perform as it was intended once it dries out

Good Luck, and above is just my @.02


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## branchbuzzer (Nov 21, 2010)

stint said:


> Another BIG consideration for me is the *wasted heat* when burning wet wood; especially oak
> 
> A significant amount of the heat of burning must be used to remove the moisture above the beloved 20% number



Yep, it's not just that it's going to be tough to burn, it's also costing you money. Sure, you spent some coin on getting the oak, but you're going to come out way better by spending some extra $$$ to get dry wood. If I had zero dollars and zero cents, I'd be out in the woods playing pick-up-sticks before I'd burn the green oak.

Here's another option that nobody's mentioned: Find someone else you know with a multi-year supply of seasoned wood and ask if you can trade some of your green for it somehow. By the time they use it, it'll be dried out. You may have to come to mutual terms, but that might be a way to go. I often suggest this to people, especially people more than one tank of gas away from myself.


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## Dalmatian90 (Nov 21, 2010)

> A significant amount of the heat of burning must be used to remove the moisture above the beloved 20% number



From the University of Nebraska brochure, for a cord of Red Oak:
Green: 4,888#
Dry: 3,528#
24.6 Million BTUs 

So we're dealing with 1,360# of water. 

Takes 1 BTU per pound to raise the temp 1º. Takes 970 BTUs/# to convert water at 212º to steam.

If the wood is 65º when you throw it in the stove...
1360# x 1117 BTUs/# = 1.5 Million BTUs

You "lose" 6% of the BTUs to boiling off the water.

I don't see that as a lot of BTUs lost.

**BUT** what does happen is the water slows down the Rate-of-Release. 

Your house feels chilly, you thrown those green logs on. 

That 6% energy loss has to come off the top, so you're not getting that much heat while it boils off the water. The moisture slows down the fire, so it doesn't get as hot during this period, too -- meaning it takes longer to boil off the water compared to a log you threw into a roaring fire, and during this time it's "cooler" due to the lower rate-of-release so you're seeing more unburnt carbon compounds go up in the smoke.

Compared to seasoned wood, your house ends up chillier for longer dealing what is referred to as "slow burning crap."

And as the steam condenses in your chimney, it pulls the unburned carbon products out of the smoke and forms creosote on the chimney walls.


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## goanin (Nov 21, 2010)

Is this your last year burning firewood? Probably not.
Red Oak is good firewood. Why not wait a year or two and enjoy it fully then? It's not like you're gonna lose it if you don't use it this winter. Let it season, and get dry wood for this winter.


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## Pulp Friction (Nov 21, 2010)

MTK, I've told this story before but you're new here and may not have seen it. But I've been in the same boat before with loads of my favorite wood (red oak) and holding lots of moisture when needing to burn. I staged it on a couple of face-cord racks in my garage and split it thinner than typical. I used 3 box fans, the cheap 20-inch square ones with 3 speeds. I managed to keep air flowing through the racks for a week while using the other and kept up with the drying/rotation. You can remove the moisture incredibly fast when split thin enough and all 4 sides split and exposed to the moving air. The fans hardly use any electricity, especially on low speed. You just need to carry away the moisture when it pulls to the surface of the wood. An indicator of the progress is that as the fragrance diminishes, and what a beautiful fragrance it is ( I love the smell of cheese), the wood has lost a great deal of its moisture. I kept up to the point of no sizzling or bubbling out of the ends. 

As dalmation indicated, that weight loss per cord was 1360 pounds. That's 163 gallons of water! Now imagine three 55-gallon drums of water, 1 included with each face-cord. A futile effort burning with that much water. Now imagine 3 box fans drying up a 55 gallon spill of water on a floor in a week. It can easily be done! Just split thin and keep the air moving. It's all about exposing enough area to the air with more splits. Sure it will burn up faster unless you stack it tightly in the firebox with no air gaps, but you will have full heat output with that wonderfully powerful red oak. 
Do you have anywhere indoors or under cover? A basement would even work but it would take a little hauling at first.


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## TreePointer (Nov 21, 2010)

I like the idea of getting seasoned wood any way you can (trade it or buy it).

In my area, there's plenty of dead standing elm (DED) that I'd much rather burn than freshly cut red oak. Most folks appreciate my taking of their ugly dead elms.


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## sunfish (Nov 21, 2010)

Burning seasoned wood is just so much more better


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## treeclimber101 (Nov 21, 2010)

I don't mind burning some wet wood sometimes it seems that it doesn't dry out the air as bad ... The drawback is there is a huge heat difference wet wood just creates enough fire to burn not circulate heat , I always mix pallets in when the wood is wet from snow or rain , or if I wanna put some heat into the room , I am burning a fireplace not stove ..Try mixing some white oak in there it burns better an cleaner ..


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## Mtk (Nov 21, 2010)

thank you everyone for all the advice. Atm I have about a cord of wood that is some what seasoned. I will be trading a cord of green for a cord of 10 month seasoned red oak. I do not want to buy wood here because a cord here goes for about 250-350 and normally has only been split for 3 months or so and put in a pile. I hope I will be getting a truck load of standing dead ash, maple and birch in the next month or so. This is the first year that I am buying logs so I should not have this problem again.


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## branchbuzzer (Nov 21, 2010)

Mtk said:


> thank you everyone for all the advice. Atm I have about a cord of wood that is some what seasoned. I will be trading a cord of green for a cord of 10 month seasoned red oak. I do not want to buy wood here because a cord here goes for about 250-350 and normally has only been split for 3 months or so and put in a pile. I hope I will be getting a truck load of standing dead ash, maple and birch in the next month or so. This is the first year that I am buying logs so I should not have this problem again.



Glad that worked out for you, it's not always easy to get out of a situation like that, so it's good you found someone that could help. Now you'll know the importance of getting a head start on your supply - you may even contract FAD... Firewood Acquiring Disease.


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## Mtk (Nov 21, 2010)

Already have fad... I am finishing up splitting the last of our first load. Looks like its about 12 cords or so. I plan on getting at least 2 more truck loads. So I think I have fad


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## 1harlowr (Nov 22, 2010)

You must have some really good friends in your neck of the woods. Can see many people just trading a cord of seasoned for a cord of green straight up.


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## TreePointer (Nov 22, 2010)

Maybe not straight up. You might find someone who wants oak, but doesn't have much or any. Trade for seasoned mixed hardwoods.


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## CrappieKeith (Nov 22, 2010)

MNGuns said:


> I would buy seasoned wood before I tried to burn green oak, or any wood for that matter. Water just does not burn very well.



Bingo...we have a winner!:yourock:


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## Marc (Nov 22, 2010)

Dalmatian90 said:


> From the University of Nebraska brochure, for a cord of Red Oak:
> Green: 4,888#
> Dry: 3,528#
> 24.6 Million BTUs
> ...



24.6 Mbtu/cord is the potential energy of red oak. The actual recoverable heat will be much less depending on your appliance efficiency. I'm betting you lose much more than the 6% required for water's latent heat of vaporization with unseasoned red oak due to the reduced combustion efficiencies, particularly if you're trying to burn it in an EPA phase II rated appliance.

I'd avoid it at all costs. Sounds like the OP got himself into a better situation now though.


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## Buckethead (Nov 23, 2010)

Last year I burned some Red Oak that I had seasoning for about 12 months...unfortunately about 4 of those months were very wet. The oak burned okay but only if I mixed it with some nice dry seasoned wood. This fall, when I cleaned my chimney, I had significant creosote issues...the first time in 5 years.

The other 6 cord of Red Oak I have seasoning in the yard will season for 2 full years.


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