# Tongue and groove feeling technique



## chuckwood (Apr 2, 2015)

Any comments on this? First time I've heard about it and I'm about to try it. It's supposed to be useful on smaller trees where you really don't have that much room to use felling wedges. I'm clearing out some land that has a lot of smaller sized trees, and I need to put them down very precisely to avoid hanging them up in other trees.


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## 2dogs (Apr 2, 2015)

This needs to be in the chainsaw forum. We have all see this before from Ekka. Might be just the thing for palms but not for trees. It pays to be flexible and always learning so here is a trick for you...search.


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## bitzer (Apr 2, 2015)

I used to play around with that. Its very easy to cut one or the other side off or the pressure from the wedge breaks one side off. Thats when the tree goes sideways. The right way to tip small diameter stems: backcut first, wedge, face, then wedge til it tips. Much easier, faster, and safer.


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## northmanlogging (Apr 2, 2015)

Used it a hand full of times, usually when a little stem sits back, Bitz and 2dogs are right though its not real safe, better to back cut first, start a wedge, then face it. Just remember to aim with the back cut and take your time with the face. And leave a little more hold wood than normal.


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## Gologit (Apr 2, 2015)

I tried it also, just out of curiosity. It's very unforgiving of error and doesn't always give reliable results. I think I'll use some of the other tricks in the bag.


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## madhatte (Apr 2, 2015)

I pushed a 15" or so cottonwood 180 degrees against its lean with this method once... that was a lot of pounding on the wedge. It did work, and I got it over without ropes or machinery, but it sure as hell wasn't easy. As noted above, this is another trick in the bag, but certainly not a universal one.


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## rwoods (Apr 2, 2015)

As 2dogs referenced this cut has been discussed elsewhere and may have an application to palm trees. It would be wise to listen to the folks above. Small trees don't give you much room for error and this cut is quite precise. BTW I hate falling plate size trees - many seem to be more dangerous than larger trees to this firewood hack. Ron


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## northmanlogging (Apr 2, 2015)

Modified slightly it can help on bigger stems if your a little slow with the wedges and she sits back you ya, course it requires having another saw/bar+chain to make the necessary plunge for a wedge to fit it, and it is almost guaranteed to smash the rails closed on your bar. 

I've only seen this done of course... it would never happen to me, cause I'm like a wanna be pro and stuff...


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## chuckwood (Apr 2, 2015)

rwoods said:


> As 2dogs referenced this cut has been discussed elsewhere and may have an application to palm trees. It would be wise to listen to the folks above. Small trees don't give you much room for error and this cut is quite precise. BTW I hate falling plate size trees - many seem to be more dangerous than larger trees to this firewood hack. Ron



I'm a hack myself, and I'm real curious as to what can go wrong with these smaller trees. 

I'm selectively taking out a big bunch of these plate size trees as you call them, and converting them to firewood. I'm leaving alone and trying to encourage the more desirable trees (at least for me) like wild cherries, walnuts, hickory, etc. and removing trees like box elder, maple, and hackberry. They are spaced close together so I have to be real precise where I land them or I'll damage trees I wish to keep or get them hung up. So far, the thing that seems to work best for me, amateur that I am, is to place an extension ladder on the trunk, climb up and attach a rope. Then put the rope under tension with a comealong. Then do the usual backcut, wedge, and notch routine. So far so good, I've just been interested in shortcuts, but I guess there aren't any.


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## rwoods (Apr 2, 2015)

chuckwood said:


> I'm a hack myself, and *I'm real curious as to what can go wrong with these smaller trees.*
> 
> I'm selectively taking out a big bunch of these plate size trees as you call them, and converting them to firewood. I'm leaving alone and trying to encourage the more desirable trees (at least for me) like wild cherries, walnuts, hickory, etc. and removing trees like box elder, maple, and hackberry. They are spaced close together so I have to be real precise where I land them or I'll damage trees I wish to keep or get them hung up. So far, the thing that seems to work best for me, amateur that I am, is to place an extension ladder on the trunk, climb up and attach a rope. Then put the rope under tension with a comealong. Then do the usual backcut, wedge, and notch routine. *So far so good, I've just been interested in shortcuts, but I guess there aren't any.*



Basically with small trees you have less wood to cover for your screw-ups and wedging can be difficult even when you make the back cut first. Thus the probability of the tree falling in a direction other than intended is increased.

Not a short cut and I don't know that a pro would do it this way, but when I am cutting small live trees around structures (only do that for kin folks) I often make a tall face cut (forget the name for it) so I end up with a long/tall hinge which allows me to gently pull the stem over without breaking the hinge. Once down, I cut the hinge.

Ron


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## treeslayer2003 (Apr 2, 2015)

rwoods said:


> Basically with small trees you have less wood to cover for your screw-ups and wedging can be difficult even when you make the back cut first. Thus the probability of the tree falling in a direction other than intended is increased.
> 
> Not a short cut and I don't know that a pro would do it this way, but when I am cutting small live trees around structures (only do that for kin folks) I often make a tall face cut (forget the name for it) so I end up with a long/tall hinge which allows me to gently pull the stem over without breaking the hinge. Once down, I cut the hinge.
> 
> Ron


are you meaning an open face? if i am pulling one {skidder] i will make a big open combo face so the hinge can fold until its about on the ground.

little trees also like to bend and spring and jump back at you like a spear..........spring poles from hell while topping.......i hate um. rather fall over size stuff any day.


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## northmanlogging (Apr 2, 2015)

with small stems you either go with the lean, or pull em. Wedging works, but its certainly not as effective as on a larger tree, couple of 8" k+h red heads work good on small timber (short and fat) Oregon has a little yellow wedge that would maybe work good too? its like 5" or something. 

Other wise nothing wrong with putting a line in em.

By plate size ya talking dinner plate or tea plate?


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## Trx250r180 (Apr 3, 2015)

If i ever fall a tree in front of taco bell ,this may come in handy ,only place in town i have seen a palm .


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## rwoods (Apr 3, 2015)

Mike, I believe the cut I am describing is close to what you would call a block face. Not sure the term applies to small stuff but it is just a way to ease a small tree to the ground with a rope without breaking the hinge. If you make the hinge too tall it can twist resulting in a falling direction you were trying to avoid. Also you certainly don't want a hinge so thick that the tree doesn't stay down when you release the rope otherwise as you noted you have created a spring pole. Or were you talking about push back from the canopy? Another hazard. Did I say I hate cutting small trees? 

NM, plate as in paper plate - 8" or so. The cut I mentioned above is what I employ from time to time on smaller than plate size. You know the size you can almost manhandle but is just big enough to ruin the rose bush or fence if it should land there.

Ron


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## 2dogs (Apr 3, 2015)

I also hate those 8" to 14" trees. They don't have enough weigh to make it through limbs of surrounding trees and you can't wedge them hard or you'll break the hinge. I have had several Lodgepole pines and small white firs break the hinge and end up sitting on top of the wedge.


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## bitzer (Apr 3, 2015)

Fall em with the lean, cut the hinge off when they're committed, and usually they will roll through the other standing timber. Usually. Small dbh can make a fool out of anyone.


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## 2dogs (Apr 3, 2015)

bitzer said:


> Fall em with the lean, cut the hinge off when they're committed, and usually they will roll through the other standing timber. Usually. Small dbh can make a fool out of anyone.


No lean, dense stands of Lodgepole (aka Tamarack pine in the Sierras) mixed with White fir and Incense cedar so canopy is very crowded, no weight. When these trees die they lose water weight very quickly and what weight remains is very low in the stem, like the bottom 15'.

Cutting the hinge can help though.


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## Gologit (Apr 3, 2015)

bitzer said:


> Fall em with the lean, cut the hinge off when they're committed, and usually they will roll through the other standing timber. Usually. Small dbh can make a fool out of anyone.


 
That dog-hair crap always gave me more problems than the big stuff. I've set daily personal best records for hung trees cutting those whips.
On one job I started out telling the skidder that I'd buy him a beer for every one he had to knock down for me. I had to quit offering though...as many as I hung up I would have had to buy him a whole damn brewery.


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## Trx250r180 (Apr 3, 2015)

Whats the trick to keep your bar tip from being pinched cutting cedar limbs ? Slow down a little ?


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## Westboastfaller (Apr 3, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> Whats the trick to keep your bar tip from being pinched cutting cedar limbs ? Slow down a little ?


Don't cut in the compression! lol
..I suppose. ..like gologit is stating in his motto...."Don't cut quicker than you can think". It seems most times you get pinched its because you didn't bother to look if that branch was held up by sometime and assumed you would be cutting the tension like the majority you just cut.


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## northmanlogging (Apr 3, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> Whats the trick to keep your bar tip from being pinched cutting cedar limbs ? Slow down a little ?


Cut em long say a foot or so from the stem. gives you a little more time to readjust and some more flex to drag the bar out if needed.

Cedars here have them long curvy limbs that can be hard to judge.


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## Westboastfaller (Apr 3, 2015)

northmanlogging said:


> Cut em long say a foot or so from the stem. gives you a little more time to readjust and some more flex to drag the bar out if needed.
> 
> Cedars here have them long curvy limbs that can be hard to judge.



No thanks, one broken nose was enough cutting Cyprus With a higher cut than usual. That puts the butt closer to your face. Proper assessment and slowing down on some to find the bind is the answer. I respectfully disagree with this.
*edits in....just makes it safer all around IF one fails to "mis something"


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## Trx250r180 (Apr 3, 2015)

northmanlogging said:


> Cut em long say a foot or so from the stem. gives you a little more time to readjust and some more flex to drag the bar out if needed.
> 
> Cedars here have them long curvy limbs that can be hard to judge.


If it's real bushy i will cut away from the log first to take weight off of them ,but sometimes they will turn and pinch ,i just realized i was not in the falling pics thread oops ,sorry guys for the derail about the palms


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## Westboastfaller (Apr 3, 2015)

chuckwood said:


> I'm a hack myself, and I'm real curious as to what can go wrong with these smaller trees.
> 
> I'm selectively taking out a big bunch of these plate size trees as you call them, and converting them to firewood. I'm leaving alone and trying to encourage the more desirable trees (at least for me) like wild cherries, walnuts, hickory, etc. and removing trees like box elder, maple, and hackberry. They are spaced close together so I have to be real precise where I land them or I'll damage trees I wish to keep or get them hung up. So far, the thing that seems to work best for me, amateur that I am, is to place an extension ladder on the trunk, climb up and attach a rope. Then put the rope under tension with a comealong. Then do the usual backcut, wedge, and notch routine. So far so good, I've just been interested in shortcuts, but I guess there aren't any.



Well " if it ain't broke then don't fix it"
it doesn't matter what someone else does thats with in THEIR ABILLITY, thats not YOUR comfort level as YOU'RE not experienced in these methods.
Retention falling is not a place to practice new techniques. Most fallers are killed by there own hang ups.


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## Woody912 (Apr 3, 2015)

northmanlogging said:


> with small stems you either go with the lean, or pull em. Wedging works, but its certainly not as effective as on a larger tree, couple of 8" k+h red heads work good on small timber (short and fat) Oregon has a little yellow wedge that would maybe work good too? its like 5" or something.
> 
> Other wise nothing wrong with putting a line in em.
> 
> By plate size ya talking dinner plate or tea plate?



Only bar I have ever bent was on a 12" tree cause I was determined to make it fall where I wanted it and too proud to throw the chain on it. Think I spent 10 hrs straightening that bar out of embarrassment


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## Knobby57 (Apr 3, 2015)

Quarter 1/4 works great for small trees


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## rwoods (Apr 3, 2015)

Enough with the palm trees already. The cut shown above seems to be the same as used by fordf150 in the firewood thread titled Depth of Face Cut. Ron


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## 2strokenut (Apr 3, 2015)

With most palms these techniques work well because of the even weighted heads. As for small trees this is not the case. I have found the head weight has a lot to do with the way the tree moves when felling. Useing both the techniques in the clips, I only use them if the head weight and tree lean is where I want the tree to fall.


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## Gologit (Apr 3, 2015)

Trx250r180 said:


> Whats the trick to keep your bar tip from being pinched cutting cedar limbs ? Slow down a little ?



If you're getting pinched you're reading the bind wrong. You're not cutting for scale, slow down a little and pay better attention. If you're in doubt about where the bind is just put a little run in the wood with your tip and see what the kerf does. If it's a real wolfy tree you could also make your first cut farther out on the limb, relieve the tension, and then come back and slick off the pig ears.
You're not logging so have some fun with it. Relax.


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## Gologit (Apr 3, 2015)

rwoods said:


> Enough with the palm trees already.



Amen.


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## slowp (Apr 3, 2015)

We all need to know how to work with palm trees. Climate change will cause a transformation of the forest. Palms could be the next Doug-fir.


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## Gologit (Apr 3, 2015)

slowp said:


> We all need to know how to work with palm trees. Climate change will cause a transformation of the forest. Palms could be the next Doug-fir.



Let's hope not. I've cut one palm tree in my whole life. I'll never cut another.


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## fordf150 (Apr 3, 2015)

rwoods said:


> The cut shown above seems to be the same as used by fordf150 in the firewood thread titled Depth of Face Cut. Ron


Same cut except I was using plastic wedges and a hatchet to drive wedges.


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## BeatCJ (Apr 5, 2015)

slowp said:


> We all need to know how to work with palm trees. Climate change will cause a transformation of the forest. Palms could be the next Doug-fir.


So help me god, I'll move to the NW Territories...


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## KiwiBro (Apr 5, 2015)

Gologit said:


> I'll never cut another.


 Ditto. The one and only I messed with got its revenge - spike between toe joints (I was wearing safety jandles at the time) caused infection and I moped around for a fortnight before relenting and spending two days in hospital. Another KiwiBro Darwin moment, of many.


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## Whitespider (Apr 17, 2015)

Technique??
Heck, I just whack 'em off and run like hell‼

*I'VE MOVED HERE*


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## the GOAT (Apr 17, 2015)

Whitespider said:


> Technique??
> Heck, I just whack 'em off and run like hell‼
> 
> *I'VE MOVED HERE*


Have you tried the slowp'ing back cut?


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## Whitespider (Apr 17, 2015)

the GOAT said:


> _*Have you tried the slowp'ing back cut?*_


        

*I'VE MOVED HERE*


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## Wow (Apr 19, 2018)

By slopping back cut do you mean a high angle back cut while cutting toward the hinge?
I'd think a tiny bit of angle my work but IMHO a steep angled back cut puts to much pressure on the hinge. There is a chance the hinge could sheer if you are cutting a heavy back leaner. I never cut angled back cuts. A horizontal back cut made in line with or slightly above the hinge line, when properly wedged has always worked well for me. If the hinge sheers that tree can fall anywhere. I'd NEVER recommend an angled back cut but I've seen it done on small trees even though it's been known to work I didn't think it's worth the wrist. On small trees that can be hand guided or pulled with a rope, I like a Snap or bypass cut. On small back leaners when I'm being lazy I may make a small face cut then bore through the center front to back making a wedge clearance slot. Then open the slot, drive a wedge, cut both sides up to the hinge and drive the wedge till she falls. One an especially severe leaner I've cut one face cut, bore cut and driven a wedge but it was still leaning back. So I cut another face cut above the first one and plunged it and repeated the same way until the tree went down. It looked kinda kinky backed. The danger is that center section may double back and both hinges snap. I've got plenty of all size ropes and tossing a rope over a limb is the safest method. This is my opinion, yours may vary.


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## ArtB (Apr 19, 2018)

Small tree, just put he excavator or backhoe bucket against the trunk and push (occasionally pull) the little thing over.
Or I pull with sufficient length wire rope. 
Have never tried that wedge in a slot technique.


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## old CB (Apr 19, 2018)

That wedge in the slot trick is popular here where we have lots of small trees. But like Bitzer pointed out, the weakness is that you now have just two narrow pieces of holding wood--insufficient--and when you pound the wedge it's easy to pop one of the two, and now the tree wants to go sideways or elsewhere.


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## Canyon Angler (Apr 24, 2018)

For cases where it's not entirely clear which part of a downed tree is in compression and which part is in tension, I saw a good tip for using a "tongue and groove" cut while bucking to determine how the tree wants to move here:

<>

Jump to 41m46s from the beginning...

Looks like a neat trick for when you're not sure what the tree will do when severed...


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## RandyMac (Apr 24, 2018)

Gak, GOL gayness


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## bitzer (Apr 24, 2018)

RandyMac said:


> Gak, GOL gayness


Yep


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## madhatte (Apr 24, 2018)

Doesn't address side bind at all, either. The bind that's gonna get you is the one that you aren't paying any attention to.


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## Canyon Angler (Apr 25, 2018)

madhatte said:


> Doesn't address side bind at all, either. The bind that's gonna get you is the one that you aren't paying any attention to.



Really? Since you have open kerfs on the top, bottom, left and right (3, 6, 9 and 12 o'clock) it seems to me that it should reveal bind/strain/stress in pretty much any direction, as the kerfs either open, close or bind the bar...

Or am I not understanding what you mean by "side bind"?


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## Gologit (Apr 25, 2018)

RandyMac said:


> Gak, GOL gayness


 Yup. Too much monkey motion.


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## 2dogs (Apr 25, 2018)

This is a commonly used technique in the great palm forests of the Pacific Northwest.


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## northmanlogging (Apr 25, 2018)

Canyon Angler said:


> For cases where it's not entirely clear which part of a downed tree is in compression and which part is in tension, I saw a good tip for using a "tongue and groove" cut while bucking to determine how the tree wants to move here:
> 
> <>
> 
> ...



Only watched part of this... i feel dumber now...

I'll watch it later when i can skip the lame parts easier...

Shouldn't take 40 minutes to fall a tree even if you stop and describe every step


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## Canyon Angler (Apr 25, 2018)

northmanlogging said:


> Shouldn't take 40 minutes to fall a tree even if you stop and describe every step



Like I said, jump to 41:46 for the material in question


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## 2dogs (Apr 25, 2018)

Canyon Angler you obviously have no experience logging. No, cutting a few cords of firewood doesn't provide the experience or the variety of situations that allows you to express your nonsensical opinions on every situation that pops up here in the F&L forum. While you are polite you argue nearly every answer to the questions you have raised. I doubt you are learning anything, from wedges, to boots lacing, cutting a face. You really should go to Chainsaw and hang out there because I think you are building a very poor reputation here. BTW I have had you on ignore for a couple of weeks but I logged out and reread your recent posts.


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## madhatte (Apr 25, 2018)

Canyon Angler said:


> Really? Since you have open kerfs on the top, bottom, left and right (3, 6, 9 and 12 o'clock) it seems to me that it should reveal bind/strain/stress in pretty much any direction, as the kerfs either open, close or bind the bar...
> 
> Or am I not understanding what you mean by "side bind"?



Here's a scenario I run into quite a bit. Edge of a clearcut, trees that have lived their whole lives in a closed canopy are not wind-firmed at all, so the first and second rank or two blow over in the first winter or two. These are tall skinny poles, 80-120 feet on average, and when they fall between their brethren, they wiggle their way between them on their way down. This is not limb lock. This is a tree in top, bottom, and often multiple side binds. It might take several months and a storm or two for them to wiggle their way all the way horizontal, by which time they are loaded like a bear trap. You go into one of those thinking you can read the bind first try, you're gonna be lucky to just pinch your bar. Best to work your way from small end to large, releasing part of the tension as you go, in several cuts, staying behind one of the trees it's bound on so that the tree will take the hit instead of you if you release the tension wrong. Now cut a dozen or a hundred of these to open up a mile or so of road. You'll find it to be tiring and unforgiving work. It would be easy to end up dead bucking this kind of loaded wood, so you gotta be super aware of your own complacency. Get tired, stop. Take a break. Drink some water. This is not efficient work. You're not gonna make any money at it, and it's not exciting or glorious or fun. It's just work, tedious and dangerous. This is what I meant by "does not address side binds at all".


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## Gologit (Apr 25, 2018)

Bear traps. This wasn't as close as it looked but it was closer than I wanted.


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## Gologit (Apr 25, 2018)

2dogs said:


> Canyon Angler you obviously have no experience logging. No, cutting a few cords of firewood doesn't provide the experience or the variety of situations that allows you to express your nonsensical opinions on every situation that pops up here in the F&L forum. While you are polite you argue nearly every answer to the questions you have raised. I doubt you are learning anything, from wedges, to boots lacing, cutting a face. You really should go to Chainsaw and hang out there because I think you are building a very poor reputation here. BTW I have had you on ignore for a couple of weeks but I logged out and reread your recent posts.



No big deal. He's a dilettante. They come, they go. Very few of them stick around long enough to really learn anything. Maybe we can show them a few ways to keep their woeful lack of real experience from getting them killed. Maybe not.
It's important to try, though. I think we owe that to people who come here asking honest questions. And, even though it's a teeth-grinding and headache producing gigantic PITA, we need to help them if we can.
That being said...If we offer advice and they argue with us or if they start posting videos of "the proper way to cut a tree" then all bets are off and the dumb SOB can get his schooling someplace else.


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## madhatte (Apr 25, 2018)

My sentiments exactly.


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## northmanlogging (Apr 26, 2018)

Canyon Angler said:


> For cases where it's not entirely clear which part of a downed tree is in compression and which part is in tension, I saw a good tip for using a "tongue and groove" cut while bucking to determine how the tree wants to move here:
> 
> <>
> 
> ...





Ok, I watched the part you where talking about... don't do this if you plan on selling any of it, or at least not the way this jack ass is.

There is a bunch that he is correct and safe about, but a bunch that is ridiculous and over bearing, like the kung foolery pose every time he cuts, you should be on firm footing but come on... 

anyway, don't limb like him either, cut em long if you have to (it makes life easier on some) but slick em off like a good barber, leaving all them pig ears is just more **** someone else has to clean up later, or more weight for the truck to drag around for no reason. When you get some of them under limbs, judge the forces on em, then just nibble a bit of the compression side, and torch off the tension side, maybe at an angle if need be, but shaving it off like that is a complete waste, stay clear of it yes, but its not magic its not going to jump out and bite you fer ****s sake, log may roll yes, but that can and will happen at anytime for any reason.

As for situational awareness, yes... at all times...

anyhow, back to the original question, 

Bucking,

Way I do it, that makes life a whole lot simpler is mark em as I limb, this does 2 things, takes off as much weight as possible, and allows me to rethink my lengths as necessary, 2 36's and a bunch of top, or 1 36, 1 30, and a 16? etc key is to maximize the wood, cutting everything at x length can and will hose you eventually

then I will usually buck from the top down, the top being the lightest bit, will have less effect on the situation, then work my way back to the butt, where I can retrieve my wedges and axe and move on to the next.

Judging bind/tension/compression etc comes with time. Generally though I will cut the compression side until it starts to move (its very slight but noticeable) then cut the tension side until its free, with a few various techniques depending on each situation, like big wood cut as much of the far side as possible, then compression-tension, Boring Is reserved for cutting whatever side is near dirt if it needs cut first, purely to keep the chain out of the dirt (and I fail at this often). the whole trick is to give somewhere for all that energy to go, hence cutting the compression side first.

Its even necessary to put in a small "face" from time to time if you have say a whole bunch of wood hanging off one side and don't want to slab it off (like a chair but on the ground)

Your going to have a pinch, if you haven't had one yet, wedges help, a second saw is mandatory... never cut without a back up if for any reason then just this.

things the video didn't show, is getting trees wound around multiple obstacles putting massive side force on em, its very important to relieve that pressure in the correct manner, yet another reason I limb and then buck, ****ing this up could mean a nasty swinging tree that takes out your legs and chucks 30' into the bushes never to be seen again, best thing to do is remove as much weight as possible, and buck as much other wood as you can off, then cutting from the compression side buck at the sketchy bit, so that the wood jumps away from you...


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## Canyon Angler (Apr 26, 2018)

Thanks for taking the time and trouble, Northman. Yeah, I thought that "shaving off the compression wood" on the limbs sounded pretty crazy...

I usually limb from the top down too, seems to make the tree more manageable in a slow controlled way while removing weight, plus if it rolls when you're limbing it that way, maybe it won't as likely get you... glad to hear that's how you also do it. 



northmanlogging said:


> things the video didn't show, is getting trees wound around multiple obstacles putting massive side force on em, its very important to relieve that pressure in the correct manner, yet another reason I limb and then buck, ****ing this up could mean a nasty swinging tree that takes out your legs and chucks 30' into the bushes never to be seen again, best thing to do is remove as much weight as possible, and buck as much other wood as you can off, then cutting from the compression side buck at the sketchy bit, so that the wood jumps away from you...



Thanks, I guess that's something you can only learn from dealing with or watching someone else. I appreciate your help.

Jeff


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## Canyon Angler (Apr 26, 2018)

Gologit said:


> Bear traps. This wasn't as close as it looked but it was closer than I wanted.



I hate those. I've got a handful to deal with on my land, one not too bad, but another that's a maybe 30" DBH white oak hung up in a red maple at maybe 60° on one of the only "hillsides" on the property... I usually try to avoid messing with them, or try cutting them just enough to yank out/down with the truck.


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## Canyon Angler (Apr 26, 2018)

madhatte said:


> Here's a scenario I run into quite a bit. Edge of a clearcut, trees that have lived their whole lives in a closed canopy are not wind-firmed at all, so the first and second rank or two blow over in the first winter or two. These are tall skinny poles, 80-120 feet on average, and when they fall between their brethren, they wiggle their way between them on their way down. This is not limb lock. This is a tree in top, bottom, and often multiple side binds. It might take several months and a storm or two for them to wiggle their way all the way horizontal, by which time they are loaded like a bear trap. You go into one of those thinking you can read the bind first try, you're gonna be lucky to just pinch your bar. Best to work your way from small end to large, releasing part of the tension as you go, in several cuts, staying behind one of the trees it's bound on so that the tree will take the hit instead of you if you release the tension wrong. Now cut a dozen or a hundred of these to open up a mile or so of road. You'll find it to be tiring and unforgiving work. It would be easy to end up dead bucking this kind of loaded wood, so you gotta be super aware of your own complacency. Get tired, stop. Take a break. Drink some water. This is not efficient work. You're not gonna make any money at it, and it's not exciting or glorious or fun. It's just work, tedious and dangerous. This is what I meant by "does not address side binds at all".



Thank you. Now I get what you mean. Have seen similar situations where trees are all twisted up and gnarled all together every which way after tornadoes and also a vicious microburst here a few years back. Cut a big ERC that got hit by that microburst, and I swear it was all twisted up and knotted as if it had gone through a tornado washing machine.

I can see where that would be very treacherous, and how, because it's such tiring work, there would be a tendency to want to just say **** it and torch the stuff off, which could get you into trouble. Thanks for taking the time to explain how to tackle it.

Jeff


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## RandyMac (Apr 26, 2018)

2dogs said:


> This is a commonly used technique in the great palm forests of the Pacific Northwest.



Are those the Hairy Palms we hear about?


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## madhatte (Apr 27, 2018)

can neither confirm nor deny


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