# Faster way to the top?



## Youngbuck20 (Jan 19, 2012)

Well today was my second climb ever, in a blizzard with temps around -10C. Guess it only gets easier lol. Anyways, we have certain trees (mostly black walnuts) that we need to climb and reach the top to pass the class. I wanna know if there is a faster way while doing it the way we are climbing. The system we are using is.. clove hitch with two half hitches around the base of the tree, with a micro pulley under a taught line hitch. climber climbs by pulling himself up on the rope that goes down to the base of the tree. If that made any sense whatsoever keep reading. While we get up to where our line is around a branch we hook our lanyard up and take our climbing line off, we attach it to a pole pruner and hoist it up the tree and put our line over another branch pull it back down around the branch back to us, hook it back on, take lanyard off and climb to where you got your line with the pole pruner. Repeat. Still following?? Using the way we are climbing is there a faster way to get our climbing line up the tree? Throw ball to the top isnt an option right not, gotta learn this way. Thanks in advance, sorry for the horrible explanation. Cheers


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## Saw Dust Smoken (Jan 20, 2012)

*To the top?*

Why is the rope half hitch around base of tree? If you have a snap or biner on each end of rope. Just alternate ends to the top. The foot ascender will speed things up. Even a hand ascender will make easier to grab rope and advance you up.
Does your class do any SRT method? This is faster and less effort on body!
Do a advanced search on climbing styles or equipment use for climbing! Good stuff!


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## Youngbuck20 (Jan 20, 2012)

We have a that set up around the base of the tree because we have someone down there taking the slack out of our line as we ascend and also the help us descend down by giving us slack. Its just for safety right now. If i screw up my knots he still has a good taught line at the bottom that wont let me go anywhere. Were not allowed anything in the tree to help us climb faster just wondering if you can get your climb line from the bottom to the top faster than using a pole pruner. We dont learn SRT but i think throughout this summer im going to learn on my own.


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## tree md (Jan 20, 2012)

Sounds like you are learning good sound methods. I always belay my new climbers until I'm sure they have got their friction hitch down. Best bet is to get good with a big shot and shot line. Hit a good solid crotch in the top and you can forgo the pole saw. I know a lot of climbers that use a short rope and sling it up to the next TIP to advance and some are pretty fast with it. I like to hit a good high TIP with my shot line and I use a foot and hand ascender... But I'm an old dude... You aught to be able to smoke your way up the tree foot locking or hip thrusting. Anyway. preinstalling your line in a good high TIP is the fastest route up the tree.


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## kevin bingham (Jan 20, 2012)

Sounds you need help with your throwline. You should be able to get it to the crotch you need. I'll throw for an hour rather than hucklebuck and throw in the tree. Do all the work from the ground and then when you have your high crotch your ready to climb.


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## startopper (Jan 20, 2012)

I agree, throwing a rope to another TIP while in the tree can be challenging- but knowing how is a must


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## Youngbuck20 (Jan 20, 2012)

Were not allowed to use throwballs and throw lines just yet, unless the tree is like 40 feet before branches start. I have to practice climbing whenever i can on my own time, but not having a pole pruner myself I just wanna know is there an easier way to get your rop up higher while your in the tree? Would a throw ball work? Would just tossing your line up trying to get it around a branch work? There has to be easier ways other than a pole pruner. Incase your wondering how we get the rop in the tree we used a "locked throwball" made from the rope itself. Just coiled up a bit and tossed up there.


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## Saw Dust Smoken (Jan 20, 2012)

*info*

Go to advanced search: type in - advancing. Several ideas for ya to look at.


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## Youngbuck20 (Jan 20, 2012)

Beauty! Thank you!


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## imagineero (Jan 21, 2012)

kevin bingham said:


> Sounds you need help with your throwline. You should be able to get it to the crotch you need. I'll throw for an hour rather than hucklebuck and throw in the tree. Do all the work from the ground and then when you have your high crotch your ready to climb.



Nice to see you on AS Kevin, there's plenty of need for your experience and knowledge here. Can't see you needing to throw for an hour though!

To the OP, lots of training courses teach very basic techniques. The beginner climbing course in aus won't let you use a pole strap, foot ascender, big shot, and restricts you to only one kind of hitch. They don't allow slack tending pulleys or friction savers. Climbing is very slow and difficult by those methods!

It's a good start though... If you aren't physically strong enough to ascend by basic methods within a given time then you're going to have a hard time being a full time climber. Yeah we've got tricks and gadgets to make the work easier, but if you've go to climb and take out 20~50cubic yards of chip worth of trees every day then you are going to need to be strong. 

I dropped into my local climbing course late last year just to have a look and see how the new guys are going. They'd been taking the course for 12 months, 1 day a week. Most of them were groundies in tree companies. They were given fairly simple tasks; to take out a single limb in a park tree but drop it all by hand (meaning cut, hand hold, and throw 5 seconds later) and most of them needed 4 or 5 hours to do the job. Even after a year most were far from competent. 

Use the current training to your advantage.... instead of looking for faster ways, try to be the best there is using the technique you're being shown. If you aren't climbing daily, then do some climbing on your own daily if you have access to a harness and rope. You will get stronger and faster pretty quick. The instructors will recognise your proficiency and teach you extra skills.

Shaun


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## Oak Savanna (Jan 22, 2012)

YoungBuck....Are you in training for Hydro One??


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## Saw Dust Smoken (Jan 22, 2012)

*course*

12 months-one day a wk time and thats what you got. These individule could learn more off the internet in the same amout of time. Look like there is a need for different instructors.


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## Saw Dust Smoken (Jan 22, 2012)

*advance rope*

Hope ya found some good info. Simple advance with pruner pole or straight pole with hook on end will keep rope ahead of ya. Probably the most time consumed with new climbers is? Getting to the next tip (ty in point) quickly! A saddle, rope and maybe rope snap. Tautline or Blakes hitch. Hip thrust-in midair, footlock, tunk walk-hip thrust, or half hitch around foot for footlock. For primitive climbing some style of footlock is quicker. Look up footlock for video or pictures.


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## Youngbuck20 (Jan 22, 2012)

Oak Savanna said:


> YoungBuck....Are you in training for Hydro One??



In in college for urban forestry and arboriculture. Startin us slow and safe.


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## Youngbuck20 (Jan 22, 2012)

Saw Dust Smoken said:


> Hope ya found some good info. Simple advance with pruner pole or straight pole with hook on end will keep rope ahead of ya. Probably the most time consumed with new climbers is? Getting to the next tip (ty in point) quickly! A saddle, rope and maybe rope snap. Tautline or Blakes hitch. Hip thrust-in midair, footlock, tunk walk-hip thrust, or half hitch around foot for footlock. For primitive climbing some style of footlock is quicker. Look up footlock for video or pictures.



Seems as though pole pruner is my best bet. Sure as hell isn't very fast tryin to throw your line up to another branch while your already up there. Most time is consumed by trying to throw your line in the tree without usin a throwball. We use taut line right now. Interested in footlocking ill have to giver a go. Ive spent hours watching youtube videos looking for techniques. No one seems to climb the way were taught. Anyone here left handed?


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## kevin bingham (Jan 23, 2012)

imagineero said:


> Nice to see you on AS Kevin, there's plenty of need for your experience and knowledge here. Can't see you needing to throw for an hour though!
> 
> 
> 
> Shaun



I have definitly thrown for an hour before. gotten all my lines stuck and still had to hucklebuck it. But Throwing for an hour is better than wearing yourself manually setting your rope. Pole saws in trees are dangerous if not cutting in my opinion. I have seen pad accidents with pole saws and pruners. Bad to interact them with rope scary things if they fall. It is a skill throwing rope in trees. but a better practice than using pole pruners. Attach a throwball to your line and you can throw it even higher.
Seems crazy that they are not teaching you throwball. That is my most valuable skill set by far and it takes the most practice. Perfect place to get practice would be in college. Nobodys going to want to let you throw on the job if you suck at it...


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## tree md (Jan 23, 2012)

I agree. I have never been a big fan of advancing my line with a pole saw. I have done it in the past (usually after getting my two throw balls stuck) and if you do it enough you are invariably going to nick your line eventually. I ruined my last PI climbing line while advancing it with a pole saw (should have used it with the sheath on).


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## TreeAce (Jan 23, 2012)

I have a pole saw head (no blade ) that I use for rope placement. It works well I think, def better and safer than with the blade still on. Plus, these new (can you tell I am old school yet) saw blades are soooo sharp, they can raise hell with your rope in a hurry. And if you hook it on a branch and it falls.....oh boy. That cut would likely be very serious. The big shot is hard to beat. Although it depends on the tree IMO. Sometimes your best off to advance with a pole n hook, sometimes best to go as high as possible right outa the gate with a throw line. If your able, I would work on throwing by hand before you get spoiled by a big shot:msp_biggrin:. I used to be nasty with saftey blue and a "monkey ball' knot. Man I could throw that thing.........aaahhhhhhh anyway, shoulder problems have taken alot of range off those throws. I only throw like that when I am up in the tree now. Never from the ground like I used to. Just to hard on my shoulder. And btw...i am talking here in terms of Ddrt. If you are into SRT I would think its all throw line with or without a bigshot.


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## Brian13 (Jan 23, 2012)

If you have to advance it in the tree and cant use a throw line, what about a throwing knot?


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## tree md (Jan 23, 2012)

TreeAce said:


> I have a pole saw head (no blade ) that I use for rope placement. It works well I think, def better and safer than with the blade still on. Plus, these new (can you tell I am old school yet) saw blades are soooo sharp, they can raise hell with your rope in a hurry. And if you hook it on a branch and it falls.....oh boy. That cut would likely be very serious. The big shot is hard to beat. Although it depends on the tree IMO. Sometimes your best off to advance with a pole n hook, sometimes best to go as high as possible right outa the gate with a throw line. If your able, I would work on throwing by hand before you get spoiled by a big shot:msp_biggrin:. I used to be nasty with saftey blue and a "monkey ball' knot. Man I could throw that thing.........aaahhhhhhh anyway, shoulder problems have taken alot of range off those throws. I only throw like that when I am up in the tree now. Never from the ground like I used to. Just to hard on my shoulder. And btw...i am talking here in terms of Ddrt. If you are into SRT I would think its all throw line with or without a bigshot.



I contracted a friend from this site a few years back and he would use a pole and hook to advance his line. He used a short rope and was pretty quick with it. He didn't like to wear spikes; even on removals. Said they were uncomfortable. I figured as long as he was getting his jobs done in a timely manner, who the hell was I to tell him how to climb. He did just fine with his style of climbing.


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## dts99 (Jan 23, 2012)

Brian13 said:


> If you have to advance it in the tree and cant use a throw line, what about a throwing knot?



when i learned in school 15 years ago we used a bullet knot, i still pull it out in a pinch, it looks like a noose with no loop... so we dontshang or selfs or instructors i guess


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## Zale (Jan 23, 2012)

OP- as you learn and begin to master the basic techniques they are showing you, your speed will improve. Patience is the key. Allow yourself the time to learn and don't feel you need to master everything by the end of the course. Also, drink lots of Redbull.:msp_wink:


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## Youngbuck20 (Jan 23, 2012)

Brian13 said:


> If you have to advance it in the tree and cant use a throw line, what about a throwing knot?



i assume you mean what my teacher calls a "locked throwball" about 10-15 feet of your rope coiled up then thrown into a tree?? If thats what you meant then yes thats what were having to do. Not sure if were just learning this to show us what to do in case of losing your throwball or getting in stuck, like i did first throw lol.


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## Youngbuck20 (Jan 23, 2012)

Zale said:


> OP- as you learn and begin to master the basic techniques they are showing you, your speed will improve. Patience is the key. Allow yourself the time to learn and don't feel you need to master everything by the end of the course. Also, drink lots of Redbull.:msp_wink:



Tim Hortons just upped their cup size so were golden lol


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## Youngbuck20 (Jan 23, 2012)

I would never try to advance my line with a pole saw, not one with an engine on one end thats for sure. pruner will do i supposed just keep clippin on attachments till i reach the top and try not to eat my snap if it comes off the pruner!! Wheres that toothless smiley??


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## petcern (Jan 25, 2012)

Youngbuck20 said:


> i assume you mean what my teacher calls a "locked throwball" about 10-15 feet of your rope coiled up then thrown into a tree?? If thats what you meant then yes thats what were having to do. Not sure if were just learning this to show us what to do in case of losing your throwball or getting in stuck, like i did first throw lol.



No, that's a knot that makes your climbing line into a throw line, sort of... "The tree climbers companion" book talks about it. It can be made either closed (stays at the end after throwing) or open (acts sort of like a slip knot and unties itself after throwing). Apparently any big knot should work since it adds weight to the end of the rope. The book mentions the noose knot that can be used as well.


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## Iustinian (Jan 25, 2012)

Youngbuck20 said:


> Seems as though pole pruner is my best bet. Sure as hell isn't very fast tryin to throw your line up to another branch while your already up there. Most time is consumed by trying to throw your line in the tree without usin a throwball. We use taut line right now. Interested in footlocking ill have to giver a go. Ive spent hours watching youtube videos looking for techniques. No one seems to climb the way were taught. Anyone here left handed?



really sounds archaic....throwing your line with no throwball is old school, I think the old guys call it a "monkey-fist" lol; I don't even teach the new guys the tautline anymore. Distel and schwabish are so easy to tie and easy to teach, and almost idiot-proof. Get yourself a neo-weight and some dyneema throwline and that will get you a nice TIP faster than with the polesaw.


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## Iustinian (Jan 25, 2012)

Zale said:


> Also, drink lots of Redbull.:msp_wink:



Studies in Australia have shown that drinking Redbull makes your blood thicker the day after consumption. (Seriously) For some people, that can be fatal. I've been able to counteract this effect by mixing it with Stoli or Jager. lol


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## tree md (Jan 25, 2012)

Iustinian said:


> really sounds archaic....throwing your line with no throwball is old school, I think the old guys call it a "monkey-fist" lol; I don't even teach the new guys the tautline anymore. Distel and schwabish are so easy to tie and easy to teach, and almost idiot-proof. Get yourself a neo-weight and some dyneema throwline and that will get you a nice TIP faster than with the polesaw.



I teach them a plain jane prussic to come down on. I always want them to know how to get down with just a life line and a simple knot in the event they need to. After they learn that they can use whatever they want.


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## Youngbuck20 (Jan 26, 2012)

petcern said:


> No, that's a knot that makes your climbing line into a throw line, sort of... "The tree climbers companion" book talks about it. It can be made either closed (stays at the end after throwing) or open (acts sort of like a slip knot and unties itself after throwing). Apparently any big knot should work since it adds weight to the end of the rope. The book mentions the noose knot that can be used as well.



Yup that's what I'm talkin about.


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## Youngbuck20 (Jan 26, 2012)

Iustinian said:


> Studies in Australia have shown that drinking Redbull makes your blood thicker the day after consumption. (Seriously) For some people, that can be fatal. I've been able to counteract this effect by mixing it with Stoli or Jager. lol



I believe it. My heart does not want to function after even half a can of energy crap. Just makes me weak and shaky. Don't know how some guys can smash them back. Btw gibsons finest will do the trick too


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