# How should this tree be cut?



## Highdesignfool (May 2, 2013)

Any advise would be appreciated. I'm helping a friend clear some land and he has a large Walnut tree with a huge lean. I hasn't been blown over or anything, It was just never tended to while growing and ended up at what looks like about a 55˚ lean. It's still living and stable. The ground in front of the lean is clear (no house in the way) 
I'm just concerned and want it to come down safely. Any tips on how this tree should be cut. Thanks

View attachment 293336


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## strangersfaces (May 2, 2013)

Rotated to save on neck strain. I'll let the experts suggest methods of removal.


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## singinwoodwackr (May 2, 2013)

D-8


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## tramp bushler (May 2, 2013)

If your saw is in the 60 CC + size, the chain is sharp and it cuts good and straight !!!!! 
I would put a 1/3 rd face in it. Cut out about 6" of the heart. Establish about a 2" of holding wood 
Bore thru and cut back out of the tree. Be ready to get the h e double tooth pick out of there when it pops.


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## roberte (May 2, 2013)

Looks like it will land in the pool . Otherwise like tramp said. From that angle I would be game on .


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## slowp (May 2, 2013)

Perhaps removing the tools will do it. Looks like they are propping it up. 

I'm not a faller.


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## roberte (May 2, 2013)

slowp said:


> Perhaps removing the tools will do it. Looks like they are propping it up.
> 
> I'm not a faller.



But we play fallers on tv. Don't try this at home.


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## Trx250r180 (May 2, 2013)

i'd use a chainsaw :biggrin:


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## Trx250r180 (May 2, 2013)

tramp bushler said:


> If your saw is in the 60 CC + size, the chain is sharp and it cuts good and straight !!!!!
> I would put a 1/3 rd face in it. Cut out about 6" of the heart. Establish about a 2" of holding wood
> Bore thru and cut back out of the tree. Be ready to get the h e double tooth pick out of there when it pops.



do you have better luck with a bore cut over a coos cut on the leaners ?


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## strangersfaces (May 2, 2013)

trx250r180 said:


> do you have better luck with a bore cut over a coos cut on the leaners ?



I too was wondering if this heavy leaner might lend itself to the Coos Bay cut....




Graphics courtesy of Metals406


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## tramp bushler (May 2, 2013)

trx250r180 said:


> do you have better luck with a bore cut over a coos cut on the leaners ?



I used to do the Coos Bay cut a lot and still do on most soft wood. But as that is a true hard wood and I'm not as familiar with them. . With what I described it shouldn't chair or pull its guts out. Also there is an exact time when he needs to get out of there. For someone that I don't know I don't like t reccomend the Coos Bay cut. Sometimes as it takes off and the fiber pull starts the fibers can and sometimes do pull the chain up out of the bar groove and it stops cutting. Its just spinning. Kindof a bad deal.


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## tramp bushler (May 2, 2013)

strangersfaces said:


> I too was wondering if this heavy leaner might lend itself to the Coos Bay cut....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What's this a dia of?


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## tramp bushler (May 2, 2013)

Oh, and make your stump about 3' up. A lot easier to see things and deal.


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## Gologit (May 2, 2013)

*Another option*


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## Trx250r180 (May 2, 2013)

strangersfaces said:


> I too was wondering if this heavy leaner might lend itself to the Coos Bay cut....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



thats not how i was taught to do a coos ,i was taught a reg humbolt face ,and nip both sides like a triangle then make a back cut ,that hinge in the pic seems like it would flop one way or another ,maybe not though


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## Trx250r180 (May 2, 2013)

Gologit said:


>



yeah like this ,you beat me to it lol


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## tramp bushler (May 2, 2013)

trx250r180 said:


> thats not how i was taught to do a coos ,i was taught a reg humbolt face ,and nip both sides like a triangle then make a back cut ,that hinge in the pic seems like it would flop one way or another ,maybe not though




Yup, same here!


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## strangersfaces (May 2, 2013)

strangersfaces said:


> Graphics courtesy of Metals406





tramp bushler said:


> What's this a dia of?



Clicking on the Graphics courtesy of Metals406[/QUOTE] would take you to the thread, "Used a coos bay in a tree today", where there seemed to be some confusion as to what cut the OP used. I suspect (but do not know) Metals406 created the graphic, first without, later with arrows and descriptions in order to help others see the method.


Thanks for your expanded thoughts on using the Coos Bay cut in regards to the OP's application.


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## tramp bushler (May 2, 2013)

Ya. There's a lot of ways to cut a tree. To the best of my knowledge I haven't left one standing that I cut.

There are only about 4 different looking stumps that I leave behind in the brush. . The one I described is the least frequent. But it works very good when its needed.


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## 056 kid (May 2, 2013)

For hardwood, like oak,(not tan oak) either of the coos bays are risky for pulling wood and busting logs. Boring is usually the way to go. No matter what you do, getting all the compression wood cut really helps things. I cut a heavy leaning hickory today, maybe 24 dbh where I sawed from the face,(a little chunk taken out of the down hill side) all the way through to the back. It held on till there I was about 2 inches from the back without pulling any wood besides some bark. Strictly flopping with the lean, but works good.


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## treeslayer2003 (May 2, 2013)

strangersfaces said:


> Rotated to save on neck strain. I'll let the experts suggest methods of removal.



just my two cents but I agree with tramp, walnut here is a little tricky it will definatly bust on ya,
i'd bore all the hart out if I was gonna sell it just not quite set down on saw and like he said be ready to leave her it'll surely try to slide back on ya even if ya get it cut off. i'd cut but don't know your expieriance level be carefull


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## woodchuck357 (May 2, 2013)

*Looks like a silver maple that may be hollow at base*

cut a notch, leave a thick hinge, bore in and cut toward the back. Expect the crack to happen BEFORE the back cut is finished.


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## treeslayer2003 (May 2, 2013)

treeslayer2003 said:


> just my two cents but I agree with tramp, walnut here is a little tricky it will definatly bust on ya,
> i'd bore all the hart out if I was gonna sell it just not quite set down on saw and like he said be ready to leave her it'll surely try to slide back on ya even if ya get it cut off. i'd cut but don't know your expieriance level be carefull



sorry had trouble editing post,meant to add don't leave directly opposite the lean leave at a 45 it will surely slide or jump backwards. let us know how this turns out,i'll worry bout ya


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## treeslayer2003 (May 2, 2013)

woodchuck357 said:


> cut a notch, leave a thick hinge, bore in and cut toward the back. Expect the crack to happen BEFORE the back cut is finished.



don't look like maple to me, if its walnut they are chair prone, to much holding on a leaner like that my be a bad thing. [jmho] I see that hollow up top, wish could see more of butt.


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## lumberjack48 (May 2, 2013)

Be very careful when notching this tree, by looking at that crack running down the center from the first limb, it might start to split while notching it.


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## treeslayer2003 (May 2, 2013)

lumberjack48 said:


> Be very careful when notching this tree, by looking at that crack running down the center from the first limb, it might start to split while notching it.



I wish I could see it in person,feel like i'm missing details, what you said about a crack could change thigs


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## lumberjack48 (May 2, 2013)

I'm not sure but it looks like a crack running down the center.


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## 056 kid (May 2, 2013)

woodchuck357 said:


> cut a notch, leave a thick hinge, bore in and cut toward the back. Expect the crack to happen BEFORE the back cut is finished.






treeslayer2003 said:


> don't look like maple to me, if its walnut they are chair prone, to much holding on a leaner like that my be a bad thing. [jmho] I see that hollow up top, wish could see more of butt.



Cottonwood I bet.


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## treeslayer2003 (May 2, 2013)

056 kid said:


> Cottonwood I bet.



trees look different in different regions plus shadows in pic. the more I look at it the more I not sure what it is, but for sure spiecies makes a diff. in how i'd cut it


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## Spotted Owl (May 2, 2013)

My two ways to approach this is. 

One. like Tramp spelled out. Only if you know how to do this. 

Two. Don't. Leave it for someone who doesn't have to ask how to get it down. There is nothing in the way to hit, it's a good leaner, your helping a friend and your doing it on the side as you have time or for fun. That tells me you don't do this often. The biggest worry I have is that you have concern about cutting this thing. Listen to your gut, it'll keep you alive. Find someone who will help that doesn't have concern.

If you have to, the biggest thing I can tell you is have a couple good clear wide escape routes ready, and use them. The rest has been covered well already. Except for that first photo, not sure what is going on there. That looks like a recipe for death.



Owl


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## ropensaddle (May 2, 2013)

I would notch and drop it if all else fails c4 is a viable solution


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## treeslayer2003 (May 2, 2013)

Spotted Owl said:


> My two ways to approach this is.
> 
> One. like Tramp spelled out. Only if you know how to do this.
> 
> ...



very well said


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## northmanlogging (May 2, 2013)

Man I get nervous, saying anything about these... never stops me though...

use the trigger like Tramp mentioned but only if your familiar with boring, and have a couple few escape routes lined up.

If your not sure pass it up, and hire a pro

The G.O.L. method is the same as the trigger method, if done with a short bar it becomes the Swedish stump dance.


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## HuskStihl (May 2, 2013)

I don't get the sense the op falls a lot of timber, and I doubt this will be going to the mill. It's also pretty small. I'd just do a RandyMac and call it a day. But I'm not sure my day job as a male stripper who uses chainsaws in his act qualifies me to comment


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## bnmc98 (May 2, 2013)

I would fall it (if able to) 60-90 degrees to the side. 40% face cut and then walk your back cut in, when you get to the hinge, if it doesn't go over slowly, give it a push, the tree is not that big and this way you don't have to worry about it splitting and chairing on you.
just my opinion, and that is all it is. Good luck.


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## Spotted Owl (May 3, 2013)

bnmc98 said:


> I would fall it (if able to) 60-90 degrees to the side. 40% face cut and then walk your back cut in, when you get to the hinge, if it doesn't go over slowly, give it a push, the tree is not that big and this way you don't have to worry about it splitting and chairing on you.
> just my opinion, and that is all it is. Good luck.




Can you tell me more about what you are saying here?



Owl


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## tramp bushler (May 3, 2013)

What?


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## RandyMac (May 3, 2013)

I'd 'chair it, just for the noise of it.


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## twochains (May 3, 2013)

I would bet that it is a shell...


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## twochains (May 3, 2013)

bnmc98 said:


> I would fall it (if able to) 60-90 degrees to the side. 40% face cut and then walk your back cut in, when you get to the hinge, if it doesn't go over slowly, give it a push, the tree is not that big and this way you don't have to worry about it splitting and chairing on you.
> just my opinion, and that is all it is. Good luck.




interesting theory...degrees and all...


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## twochains (May 3, 2013)

roberte said:


> Looks like it will land in the pool .



LULLZ! I just blew coffee out my nose when I read this!


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## roberte (May 3, 2013)

twochains said:


> LULLZ! I just blew coffee out my nose when I read this!



LULLZ? im not exactly up on all my acronyms. please advise


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## roberte (May 3, 2013)

RandyMac said:


> I'd 'chair it, just for the noise of it.





twochains said:


> I would bet that it is a shell...



based on the info provided by the OP, I wouldn't even think twice about this POS, cut and dump


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## woodchuck357 (May 3, 2013)

To lay it across the woodpile, bore straight in thru the middle, cut toward the lean stopping short and leaving about 10 percent, then still in the bore, cut back away from the lean. As it goes over the bit left will split down the stump and it won't matter if it is hollow or has a rotten center.


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## tramp bushler (May 3, 2013)

twochains said:


> I would bet that it is a shell...



I hope he hurrys up and cuts it so we can see. . 1 tree shouldn't take this many guys attention. He better take more pics.


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## treeslayer2003 (May 3, 2013)

tramp bushler said:


> I hope he hurrys up and cuts it so we can see. . 1 tree shouldn't take this many guys attention. He better take more pics.



i'll second that, just hope he's carefull, don't think he's a logger.


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## HuskStihl (May 3, 2013)

Strangersfaces, if it's not too much trouble, try to shoot a video of what you wind up doing. It's always fun to see how it turns out.
Thanks


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## 056 kid (May 3, 2013)

RandyMac said:


> I'd 'chair it, just for the noise of it.



I don't think you would hear much. Actually I'd bet a dollar that that cottonwood wouldn't slab no matter what you did to it.
I used to chair good log trees trees when the boss man wanted another load of wood at the end of the day.


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## strangersfaces (May 4, 2013)

*Just a Picture Flipper-upper...*



HuskStihl said:


> Strangersfaces, if it's not too much trouble, try to shoot a video of what you wind up doing. It's always fun to see how it turns out.
> Thanks



Jon,

I'm a wee bit too busy and far away from Utah to help the OP, "Highdesignfool" safely take down the leaner, but I too would like for him to report back in with his success story....

"Highdesignfool"... Come on down with results, the next time you check in...


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## Highdesignfool (May 4, 2013)

treeslayer2003 said:


> don't look like maple to me, if its walnut they are chair prone, to much holding on a leaner like that my be a bad thing. [jmho] I see that hollow up top, wish could see more of butt.



It's most definitely a Black or English Walnut. There are rotten walnuts scattered all around it.


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## Highdesignfool (May 4, 2013)

strangersfaces said:


> Jon,
> 
> I'm a wee bit too busy and far away from Utah to help the OP, "Highdesignfool" safely take down the leaner, but I too would like for him to report back in with his success story....
> 
> "Highdesignfool"... Come on down with results, the next time you check in...



I'll do it. It probably won't be till next month though.


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## Highdesignfool (May 4, 2013)

treeslayer2003 said:


> i'll second that, just hope he's carefull, don't think he's a logger.



Don't want to mis-lead you guys, I'm definitely not a logger. I would classify myself as a conscientious DIY'er. ( after you all have your fill of ridicule, )
Can someone describe this "chairing" effect?


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## Highdesignfool (May 4, 2013)

HuskStihl said:


> Strangersfaces, if it's not too much trouble, try to shoot a video of what you wind up doing. It's always fun to see how it turns out.
> Thanks



Hell no!


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## ropensaddle (May 4, 2013)

Highdesignfool said:


> Don't want to mis-lead you guys, I'm definitely not a logger. I would classify myself as a conscientious DIY'er. ( after you all have your fill of ridicule, )
> Can someone describe this "chairing" effect?



Falling a tree gone wrong (Barber chair) - YouTube


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## HuskStihl (May 4, 2013)

strangersfaces said:


> Jon,
> 
> I'm a wee bit too busy and far away from Utah to help the OP, "Highdesignfool" safely take down the leaner, but I too would like for him to report back in with his success story....
> 
> "Highdesignfool"... Come on down with results, the next time you check in...



Oops, got the op wrong! C'mon! Post a video, or at least some action shots!


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## treeslayer2003 (May 4, 2013)

Highdesignfool said:


> Don't want to mis-lead you guys, I'm definitely not a logger. I would classify myself as a conscientious DIY'er. ( after you all have your fill of ridicule, )
> Can someone describe this "chairing" effect?



hey we ain't laghing at ya, everyone has to start somewere. a chair is when a tree splits up the center wile your still cutting it one half still on stump other half propped up looking like a big T, very dangerous, some timber here is very prone to it. you must bore out the center to prevent on a leaner like that. if you figure out its hollow,a "shell" stop bore cut and go to back cut, when you hear a crack get the hell away from it on a 45 degree angle,this is important in case it "chairs" or slides backward you wont be under it or behind it.....good luck


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## northmanlogging (May 4, 2013)

ropensaddle said:


> Falling a tree gone wrong (Barber chair) - YouTube



Damned I haven't seen one chair like that in quite some time...:msp_ohmy:


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## treeslayer2003 (May 4, 2013)

when I was young if the tree didn't get ya the old mans foot would


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## twochains (May 4, 2013)

ropensaddle said:


> Falling a tree gone wrong (Barber chair) - YouTube



HOLY ####!!!! :jawdrop: Hell with that tree... I'm just glad that guy went the right way out from under that mess!


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## treeslayer2003 (May 4, 2013)

CRAP......that was close. what kinda tree? almost impossible to slab a pine here like that, oak and ash will do it though.


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## woodchuck357 (May 4, 2013)

*Dead lighting struck pine*



treeslayer2003 said:


> CRAP......that was close. what kinda tree? almost impossible to slab a pine here like that, oak and ash will do it though.



I doubt any cutting technique, other than several cable wraps around the trunk, would have brought it down in one piece


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## 056 kid (May 4, 2013)

woodchuck357 said:


> I doubt any cutting technique, other than several cable wraps around the trunk, would have brought it down in one piece



If your referring to the barberchair vid, I'm pretty sure that's alder. And yes, there are multiple ways to drop that tree without it slabbing. Bore the heart wood, bore behind the face, cut it with a sharp chain, don't #### around in the back cut. Any one of those would work.
The man in the vid chaired that tree because he stopped halfway through the back cut.


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## treeslayer2003 (May 4, 2013)

056 kid said:


> If your referring to the barberchair vid, I'm pretty sure that's alder. And yes, there are multiple ways to drop that tree without it slabbing. Bore the heart wood, bore behind the face, cut it with a sharp chain, don't #### around in the back cut. Any one of those would work.
> The man in the vid chaired that tree because he stopped halfway through the back cut.



no alder here, so I don't know its characteristics but I ain't never had any thing chair like that, he like ta bought it.


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## northmanlogging (May 4, 2013)

alder is a little like birch, but without the groovy bark to keep it together. Alder will chair on ya if you look at it wrong, seen em chair in a windstorm... they are fun to cut cause there kinda soft for a hard wood but still make good chips, so it sometimes seems like you'r saw is on meth, or you actually figured out how to sharpen chains... plus for fire wood'n it splits easy enough you could almost use a hatchet, and it dries really fast. For logging its great cause its worth so much now days... grows like a weed.

Damn I'm long winded again...


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## roberte (May 4, 2013)

northmanlogging said:


> alder is a little like birch, but without the groovy bark to keep it together. Alder will chair on ya if you look at it wrong, seen em chair in a windstorm... they are fun to cut cause there kinda soft for a hard wood but still make good chips, so it sometimes seems like you'r saw is on meth, or you actually figured out how to sharpen chains... plus for fire wood'n it splits easy enough you could almost use a hatchet, and it dries really fast. For logging its great cause its worth so much now days... grows like a weed.
> 
> Damn I'm long winded again...



Same with aspen too. Two paragraphs would be long winded.


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## treeslayer2003 (May 4, 2013)

gotcha, low ground ash is that way here, like you say it'll bust if ya look at it funny. I never liked cutting um, but don't matter now we can't often cut um any way dnr laws keep us outa were they grow.


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## 056 kid (May 4, 2013)

What species is low ground ash?


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## treeslayer2003 (May 4, 2013)

056 kid said:


> What species is low ground ash?



don't know if its different or not but ash here only grows in swamps and along streams. I assume it is because the pics I've seen of it elswere shows it growing on hill sides and the bark looks different ours looks a lot like poplar but it don't cut like poplar. used to be worth good money but market changed I guess. plus so many restrictions on the smz we don't cut it much any more.


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## 056 kid (May 4, 2013)

White ash is what we cut around Appalachia. Baseball bat material..


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## treeslayer2003 (May 4, 2013)

056 kid said:


> White ash is what we cut around Appalachia. Baseball bat material..



I have heard the buyers call this white ash, red ash green ash, one of um said its all white ash just some of it is stained. pop always just called it ash.


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## ropensaddle (May 5, 2013)

treeslayer2003 said:


> no alder here, so I don't know its characteristics but I ain't never had any thing chair like that, he like ta bought it.



Well I have had several loblollys chair like that but it was due to two inch ice load and at night restoring power. I Think if the dude would not of stopped cutting that treee would have went on over fine but he almost made it chair waiting !


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## roberte (May 5, 2013)

Chair, that was more like a sofa. Or the table at the last supper


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## ropensaddle (May 5, 2013)

roberte said:


> Chair, that was more like a sofa. Or the table at the last supper



With 2 inch of ice they all do that stuff and trying to notch is crazy on ice loaded trees. What I did was used power pruner stood back 13 feet and let her rip


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## millbilly (May 5, 2013)

That's a straight up, notch and drop. You couldn't chair that tree if you tried. That first crotch is at 7 feet, so it won't shear up. But then again you never know. Just have a clear planned escape route. When you cut it, cut it, don't play around with it.


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## Highdesignfool (Jun 2, 2013)

Well boys.....
I got the tree on the ground safe and sound this morning. I took millbilly's advice with the notch and drop. No cable wraps, or fancy boring cuts. It came down very controlled and in one piece. It measured 65 feet long. It was very much alive, and looked pretty wet. The center did seem kind of decayed and softer than the rest, but, not a bad way to break in my brand new MS261.View attachment 298209
View attachment 298211

(I did shoot a cellphone video of the whole thing, I just need to trim the video, then I'll up load it). 
Thanks for all the advice and encouragement. You guys rock! 
Ryan

View attachment 298203
View attachment 298204


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## woodchuck357 (Jun 2, 2013)

STILL doesn't look like any walnut I have cut!


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## bootboy (Jun 2, 2013)

I always have a couple 2" 10'000lb ratchet straps handy. When in doubt, I never hesitate to bind a trunk just to be safe. I cut a lot of really big, nasty, farm house type cotton woods. Many with trunks in excess of 5'. Its not uncommon for them to be hollowed out enough to stand in. I had one disintegrate and about had to change my pants. even though I typically have the trunk reduced to less than 20', It's hard to be super quick on these giant trunks and I don't want to take any chances. Some people might make fun of me for it. But it's only a minute that provides a great peace of mind and lets me concentrate on dumping the bastard safely otherwise.


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## HuskStihl (Jun 2, 2013)

Highdesignfool said:


> Well boys.....
> I got the tree on the ground safe and sound this morning. I took millbilly's advice with the notch and drop. No cable wraps, or fancy boring cuts. It came down very controlled and in one piece. It measured 65 feet long. It was very much alive, and looked pretty wet. The center did seem kind of decayed and softer than the rest, but, not a bad way to break in my brand new MS261.View attachment 298209
> View attachment 298211
> 
> ...



I love it when a plan comes together!


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## treeslayer2003 (Jun 2, 2013)

Highdesignfool said:


> Well boys.....
> I got the tree on the ground safe and sound this morning. I took millbilly's advice with the notch and drop. No cable wraps, or fancy boring cuts. It came down very controlled and in one piece. It measured 65 feet long. It was very much alive, and looked pretty wet. The center did seem kind of decayed and softer than the rest, but, not a bad way to break in my brand new MS261.View attachment 298209
> View attachment 298211
> 
> ...



well i'm glad ya got it down safely. it is deffienetly black walnut, tho it has a lot of sap wood. wow that's a big hinge, but it worked. like I have said before trees act differently in different places that is why most of us give the safest advice we can think of. good job man, glad you reposted.


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## millbilly (Jun 2, 2013)

I will tell you what I learned from this post, I will never give advice on how to cut a tree from a picture posted on the internet, I repeat I will never give advice on how to cut a tree from a picture posted on the internet.

Granted I would have walked up and cut the tree like I said, but I would have had a saw big enough to cut notch and back cut, in single pass.

Lesson learned


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## HuskStihl (Jun 2, 2013)

millbilly said:


> I will tell you what I learned from this post, I will never give advice on how to cut a tree from a picture posted on the internet, I repeat I will never give advice on how to cut a tree from a picture posted on the internet.
> 
> Granted I would have walked up and cut the tree like I said, but I would have had a saw big enough to cut notch and back cut, in single pass.
> 
> Lesson learned



Great post. To quote The Kid, don't #### around in the back cut don't work when your " blade" ain't big enough to not #### around in the back cut


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## ropensaddle (Jun 2, 2013)

HuskStihl said:


> Great post. To quote The Kid, don't #### around in the back cut don't work when your " blade" ain't big enough to not #### around in the back cut



Aww here is how I recommend a :newbie: does a tree!


Cat D9 dozer vs tree - YouTube


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## woodchuck357 (Jun 3, 2013)

Yeah, those leaves on the down tree are classic black walnut. And I'll be 14 years old next week!


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