# Drop this spar?



## TreeAce (May 31, 2012)

I started this Tulip yesterday. I got to thinking that I may not have to rig the log all the way to the ground. The patio/sidewalk is what I am worried about. I could save some long pieces of wood and use them on the other side just past the ivy to drop on. My worry is that the butt end will slide off the stump and be enough to at least break up some mortar joints. The SOB is pretty big. I was thinking also that taking my chances with the patio/side walk may be better than risking a piece of wood swinging just enough to ding up the gutter or the siding. the spar has a half decent lean over house so I think it is possible for this to happen even taking small pieces. i am thinking of getting her down to alittle above the lowest cut for the drop. Do you think laying out plywood , say...two layers with the edges over lapped would be worth while? I bet some old truck tires would soften things up to. Although I am fresh out of old tires. Thoughts? I will sent pictures from my phone.


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## TreeAce (May 31, 2012)

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## Toddppm (May 31, 2012)

Just Murph that sum ##### right on down across the walk.


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## TreeAce (May 31, 2012)

Toddppm said:


> Just Murph that sum ##### right on down across the walk.



I think he would prolly just jump it across the walk. but seriously WWMD?????


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## superjunior (May 31, 2012)

I'd spend a little time building a bridge of logs parallel with the walkway. If it's risky swinging those logs in the air then a little carefull planning to lay it over might be a better bet. too bad you can't get a crane over there, the mills are paying pretty good for tulip atm, at least over by me..


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## tree md (May 31, 2012)

Put a good sized log on either side of the walk. If you have room, leave that last leader on there when you drop it. It will do less ground damage that way. That is if you have room. A lot of times I will not even notch one like that. Just get a pull and lay it over so it doesn't come off the stump. Of course it is risky on larger trees... Especially Poplar that tends to want to split. I would just bridge either side of the walk and lay it over as easy as I can.


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## TreeAce (May 31, 2012)

superjunior said:


> I'd spend a little time building a bridge of logs parallel with the walkway. If it's risky swinging those logs in the air then a little carefull planning to lay it over might be a better bet. too bad you can't get a crane over there, the mills are paying pretty good for tulip atm, at least over by me..



Do you mean putting the logs only on the side opposite the tree? Like on the ivy? There isnt much room at all between the base of the tree and the walk. as far as a crane goes, The drive way is to tight.


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## TreeAce (May 31, 2012)

well, maybe there is JUST enough room to get a little some thin between the base and the walk. That would be a huge help.


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## Toddppm (May 31, 2012)

Yeah it looks like it'd be hard to pull some Murphy magic on that one. Anything you put on the stump side looks like it will be driven right into the walk from sliding off the root flare. 
Notch it low as possible and keep it from dropping off the cut as much as you can. Definitely a few layers of mats or plywood down with logs on the other side.


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## TreeAce (May 31, 2012)

The suckiest part is that I most likely cant get back over to finish up until June 13. Fn rain. Was supposed to work on it tues and weds but tuesday was rain and they are calling for a soaker tomorrow. The HO is OK with it. They was happy we got a nice bite out of her. I had to be somewhere else today.


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## superjunior (May 31, 2012)

TreeAce said:


> Do you mean putting the logs only on the side opposite the tree? Like on the ivy? There isnt much room at all between the base of the tree and the walk. as far as a crane goes, The drive way is to tight.



squeeze one just at the base of the stump.. got to lay logs on both sides of the walk so the weight is distibuted evenly on the ground on both sides of the walkway. cut the notch low so its already touching the log before it goes completely over and step back before it jumps back in your face. fun sh#t man, I love it..


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## beastmaster (May 31, 2012)

Putting a piece at the base of the tree would work if it doesn't just roll off. I don't know much about tulip tree wood, but if you took some more off the top so it doesn't jump around when it hits, you might try putting a V notch face cut and do your back cut even where the V's connect. We call that the driveway cut, then slowly pull it over. On a lot of species of trees the holding wood will stretch and the trunk will stay on the stump. I would tie it to the stump also with a big bull rope and still have a piece at the base. 
That spar would ruin that walk even if it rolled off a low stump.


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## jefflovstrom (Jun 1, 2012)

TreeAce said:


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Looks like cake to me.
Jeff


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## jefflovstrom (Jun 1, 2012)

beastmaster said:


> I don't know much about tulip tree wood,.



Think Liquidambar. Leaf is a little different.
Jeff


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## Blakesmaster (Jun 1, 2012)

I've never tried it but have you considered notching the root flare a bit so you can get a bigger chunk of wood on the spar side of the walkway? Even strap that chunk in place so it can't squirt out when you drop the spar onto it. Just thinking here.


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## TreeAce (Jun 1, 2012)

Blakesmaster said:


> I've never tried it but have you considered notching the root flare a bit so you can get a bigger chunk of wood on the spar side of the walkway? Even strap that chunk in place so it can't squirt out when you drop the spar onto it. Just thinking here.



That thought has crossed my mind.


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## TreeAce (Jun 1, 2012)

jefflovstrom said:


> Looks like cake to me.
> Jeff



Are you able elaborate a little? Is it because Urban Tree would use a helicopter?


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## TreeAce (Jun 1, 2012)

What if.....I was thinking, If I took my small stumper and dug out a "pit" say..oh..10 inch deep between the walk and the house right in that ivy and then stood plenty of plywood on its side along the house and a few pieces on the walk just for the heck of it I bet I could drop em right into that LZ and they would not bounce or roll away. Groundies could either wrestle em out and on the dolly or just stand em up with a cant hook and rip em in half and def move em ok then. I could put the 32 inch bar on my 046 for alittle extra ease of making so many cuts on the spar. I am thinking cutting about 16 inch at a time here, not 5 feet. Its so crazy it just mite work.....


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## NCTREE (Jun 1, 2012)

i think murph ing that tree is out of the question, its poplar so id think id drop catch as much of the trunk as you can. Sometimes you gota just man-up and do it. if you have a guy running the rope and two on the tag line it wont be that bad. Take small chunks, YOU AN DO IT!


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## NCTREE (Jun 1, 2012)

the only other thing i can think of is lots of plywood and tires over the sidewalk but id still chunk it down quit a bit more to minimize the shock


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## superjunior (Jun 1, 2012)

looking at the pics again it looks like you can block or but hitch another 10ft off that spar. you should be able to lay that over the walk. just watch when that holding wood snaps the but is going to jump


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## arborjockey (Jun 1, 2012)

jefflovstrom said:


> Looks like cake to me.
> Jeff


This should of ended this forum.
I saw the? Then I saw the tree. What's the problem block that s.o.b down. 
1 sheet of ply for the siding of the house the 2nd on the sidewalk in case of bouncing. Id man up and drop 2' bombs into that ivy but that's me.
Worst case scenario run a VERTICLE SPEED LINE no bounce. 
This is a warning next easy 1 gos straight to the question and answer homeowner forum.:hmm3grin2orange:


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## imagineero (Jun 1, 2012)

+1 on the above. 

No question there for me, especially if the HO is concerned about the lawn/pathway. As above I'd be putting ply on the siding, and a crash pad of limbs to block down into the ivy. I wouldn't fuss with a vertical speedline. I'd be setting a 'barrier' around the area, made up of chunks as they come down to prevent bounce/roll. Have her done easy before lunch, even without a cup of coffee in the morning. If you were on a mission you could git 'er done in a couple hours. Allow plent of time for ripping if you have to feed that barrel through a chipper. I'd say 4-5 hours to rip her enough to feed through an 18" including time to manually get the barrel out to the street with a trolley. Less if you have a skidder or are simply loading the logs into a truck without chipping.

Shaun


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## arborjockey (Jun 1, 2012)

I love the verticle speedline but never get to use it. The 1 time I did worked out great. To much set up time. Besides wheres the thrill in this industry if you don't take some risk.

Between the path and the little house seems to be about a 6' x 12-15' ivy area that the bombs over Tokyu would be raining on. 

Love the just murph it comment. This could turn into proper arborist nomenclature. " ah crap I thought that log would of had less impact on the brick. Can't believe I MURPHED it like that what was I thinking" Murphed it all up." it was leaning towards the drive can't believe he MURPHED it on the house"


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## NCTREE (Jun 1, 2012)

arborjockey said:


> I love the verticle speedline but never get to use it. The 1 time I did worked out great. To much set up time. Besides wheres the thrill in this industry if you don't take some risk.
> 
> Between the path and the little house seems to be about a 6' x 12-15' ivy area that the bombs over Tokyu would be raining on.
> 
> Love the just murph it comment. This could turn into proper arborist nomenclature. " ah crap I thought that log would of had less impact on the brick. Can't believe I MURPHED it like that what was I thinking" Murphed it all up." it was leaning towards the drive can't believe he MURPHED it on the house"



Murph is becoming its own term around here reminds me of this Family Guy episode.

[video=youtube;GAld6rNQpnc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAld6rNQpnc[/video]


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## TreeAce (Jun 1, 2012)

arborjockey said:


> This should of ended this forum.
> I saw the? Then I saw the tree. What's the problem block that s.o.b down.
> 1 sheet of ply for the siding of the house the 2nd on the sidewalk in case of bouncing. Id man up and drop 2' bombs into that ivy but that's me.
> Worst case scenario run a VERTICLE SPEED LINE no bounce.
> This is a warning next easy 1 gos straight to the question and answer homeowner forum.:hmm3grin2orange:



Do you understand what happens if I fck up the siding or the walk way? I doubt it. It looks a little different in real life btw. There are roots in that ivy to think about also. If a chunk bounces into the plywood leaning against the house it would likely still do alittle damage. I consider scuffs,dings,and small dents as damage. I guess I just think like an owner, ya know....the guy who is ultimately responsible for everything.


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## TreeAce (Jun 1, 2012)

although the vertical speed line is note worthy , no doubt there.


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## TreeAce (Jun 1, 2012)

And before this thread goes totally off the tracks....take note of the title. I was just looking for thoughts concerning laying that log across that walk way. Thats all. The title doesnt say "OMG PLEASE HELP" I already know I can bomb it into the GD ivy, I know about vertical speed lines, And I sure the fck know about rigging down large spars. It is a worth while question to ask considering what a time saver it would be.


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## Treetom (Jun 1, 2012)

TreeAce said:


> And before this thread goes totally off the tracks....take note of the title. I was just looking for thoughts concerning laying that log across that walk way. Thats all. The title doesnt say "OMG PLEASE HELP" I already know I can bomb it into the GD ivy, I know about vertical speed lines, And I sure the fck know about rigging down large spars. It is a worth while question to ask considering what a time saver it would be.



Plenty of knowledge and advice. I've just cut thin "Fisbee" disks all the way down in similar situations. Good luck and work safe, TreeAce. Looking forward to the solution and pics.


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## Toddppm (Jun 1, 2012)

TreeAce said:


> The suckiest part is that I most likely cant get back over to finish up until June 13. Fn rain. .



Too bad we have to Murph'n wait 2 more weeks to find out how you Murph it down. Make sure you take video with plenty o' commentary.



NCTREE said:


> Murph is becoming its own term around here reminds me of this Family Guy episode.
> 
> [video=youtube;GAld6rNQpnc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAld6rNQpnc[/video]



:msp_laugh:


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## climber32 (Jun 1, 2012)

you could build some cribbing on either side of the walk way and lay a big tractor tire on the side walk just in case. large tires work wonders.....you could always try your local public works yard, that's what i have done in the past, they seemed to be more than happy to give them away instead of letting them sit around. i got to big john deere loader tires from my local PW and used them a couple times.


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## Zale (Jun 1, 2012)

Bridge the sidewalk. Since you have some time, see if you can find some tires.

The other option to consider is flying Murphy out first class with hotel accommodations. :hmm3grin2orange:


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## climber32 (Jun 1, 2012)

not trying to jack your thread but here's one we layed out across a side walk with no problems.
http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/477790_10150839600116932_447909579_o.jpg


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## NCTREE (Jun 1, 2012)

climber32 said:


> not trying to jack your thread but here's one we layed out across a side walk with no problems.
> http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/477790_10150839600116932_447909579_o.jpg



Murph Yeah!!!


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## tree MDS (Jun 1, 2012)

climber32 said:


> not trying to jack your thread but here's one we layed out across a side walk with no problems.
> http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/477790_10150839600116932_447909579_o.jpg



That was an easy one though!!


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## arborjockey (Jun 1, 2012)

climber32 said:


> not trying to jack your thread but here's one we layed out across a side walk with no problems.
> http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/477790_10150839600116932_447909579_o.jpg


Ring the alarm the spars are dropping like we're in Murphsville county....or sumfin
Convexed side up. Head of that spar looks like she might have clump the grass up a little....just sayinuttahere2:

Can't start a forum with pics and not take some heat. Somebody could drop a 200' redwood between two Rolls Royce dealerships and some fly by night would say its basic tree work.

Rip Tomkins said (after degrading the position) a good groundman is better then a great climber. This is what he gets paid for not just processing brush. He needs to be damage control. As a climber you should shoot straight up and dismantle the last branch. The G.M takes all that brush and makes the crib. Unless were missing a huge tree that's right next to it that can be rigged off of? 
1-Two pieces of 6" thick foam with a piece of 1/4" ply in between works good to control inertia. 
2-Pile the brush up then put a heavy cavas on top. I use 2 cut and stiched together duffle bags. Then when the round hits you don't fight through the brush to get it.
3-Do the math for 1/3 the height of the tree make the cut and flop big sections in the yard. 

Im with blue mt. Shaun rip it and man handle the pieces. 
Or wait I can be there in 3 weeks

Hard to see from the pics but you may need to dynamite that Korean Elm....just sayin 




2 pieces. Of foam


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## climber32 (Jun 1, 2012)

tree MDS said:


> That was an easy one though!!



your right, it was pretty easy...just an example.


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## climber32 (Jun 1, 2012)

arborjockey said:


> Ring the alarm the spars are dropping like we're in Murphsville county....or sumfin
> Convexed side up. Head of that spar looks like she might have clump the grass up a little....just sayinuttahere2:
> 
> Can't start a forum with pics and not take some heat. Somebody could drop a 200' redwood between two Rolls Royce dealerships and some fly by night would say its basic tree work.
> ...





1. your right the head of the spar dug into the yard a bit. but thats what dirt and seed are for.

2. im not a huge fan of dropping big wood on top of a brush pile.


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## Slvrmple72 (Jun 1, 2012)

Lay a bunch of plywood across that walk, put a big smile in her that will keep the hinge almost the whole way down, and pull with a line. Set your stump height against the lay height to soften the blow to the walk. Ground is defn. fkn wet now so shes gonna stick.

I know right where ya are coming from Doug! Had a swayed Red Oak right behind the house, BIG, and only way to drop it was right along the back length of the house with all the top pcs for a barricade. Heart was pounding in my chest on that one! Good Luck!


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## arborjockey (Jun 1, 2012)

:msp_thumbup:
#2 Me either. I prefer clean limbs. Tying in out. Like railroad ties. 
Drop the log on the bush pile. Then start screaming at the newbies to get the brush pulled out...pronto. :biggrin:


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## squad143 (Jun 1, 2012)

TreeAce said:


> And before this thread goes totally off the tracks....take note of the title. I was just looking for thoughts concerning laying that log across that walk way. Thats all. The title doesnt say "OMG PLEASE HELP" I already know I can bomb it into the GD ivy, I know about vertical speed lines, And I sure the fck know about rigging down large spars. It is a worth while question to ask considering what a time saver it would be.



I would not attempt it. Walkway looks like flagstone held together with cement. Most likely has a screening or sand base. It won't take much abuse and will more than likely crack the cement. The interlock, if damaged is an easy fix. The flagstone, even if you did fix it, the cement would be a different colour (unless you did the whole walkway) and would always look like a repair. You'd have an unhappy customer.

I usually find that when you try to rush a job (save time) you'll eventually run into trouble.


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## formationrx (Jun 1, 2012)

arborjockey said:


> This should of ended this forum.
> I saw the? Then I saw the tree. What's the problem block that s.o.b down.
> 1 sheet of ply for the siding of the house the 2nd on the sidewalk in case of bouncing. Id man up and drop 2' bombs into that ivy but that's me.
> Worst case scenario run a VERTICLE SPEED LINE no bounce.
> This is a warning next easy 1 gos straight to the question and answer homeowner forum.:hmm3grin2orange:


+1
VSL is what id do.... ferry 3 or 4 fat cookies.... then when its low enough stack attack it.... i would not risk ####### up that walk...


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## tree md (Jun 1, 2012)

Hard to really tell from pics but that does look really iffy on that walk. I couldn't say for sure if I would risk the walk by looking at the pics. I can say by looking at the pics I am 100% sure I could piece it out without doing any damage to the structure or walk... When in doubt I piece it out.


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## beastmaster (Jun 1, 2012)

Blakesmaster said:


> I've never tried it but have you considered notching the root flare a bit so you can get a bigger chunk of wood on the spar side of the walkway? Even strap that chunk in place so it can't squirt out when you drop the spar onto it. Just thinking here.



I've done it a few times, never with a piece as big as in the picture, but you'd just need a bigger rope is all. You have to leave a higher stump but that's a good thing in that situation. Make a big wide face cut, I make a face cut then Humboldt it, then tie her down like you were going to catch it up in the tree but no pulleys or gear. You don't want it to leave the stump if you can help it. I also some times just slash cut it so it'l go over slow, but again never on any thing that big. 
If I used that technec on that spar I would first skid all that stuff off I could, so it didn't jump off to the side when it hit and to hopefully slow her down some when gravity took over. Not recommending you do that, just saying its an option.


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## bomar (Jun 2, 2012)

hard to tell from the pics but just a idea anyway you could hang a block in another tree hook the truck up and slowly lower the last chunk down


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## defensiblespace (Jun 2, 2012)

Another vote here for tires. I like to Throw a couple good size tires down on the area where the wood will fall and then put some thick pieces of plywood on top of the tires. This spreads the impact out over a much larger surface and the tires do a great job of absorbing most of the energy.


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## NCTREE (Jun 2, 2012)

I've drop chunks on a couple of old matresses with plywood underneath, seemed to work pretty well.


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## TreeAce (Jun 2, 2012)

I am about 90% sure I am gonna rig it all the way down. Or at least most of it, then just piece em off when I am close enough to the ground that I am comfy any free falling. Based on the comments I dont think its worth the risk of dropping it across the walk. It can be done though, thats a fact. But i dont think I wanna try it. I can afford to spend time on this tree so why rush. The HO is very impressed so far so I wanna keep it that way. We also have been working on clearing the hillside that goes down to Lake Erie. Thats been fun.


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## Toddppm (Jun 2, 2012)

That's probably the best way. The flagstone looks like a homeowner job and barely holding together as it is, you might ask them if they plan on keeping it. After that tree is gone they might be thinking of replacing it anyways and you wouldn't have to worry so much about it cracking more?


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## tree md (Jun 2, 2012)

I have done 2 jobs over the years where the HO's have told me to bomb trees out on their driveways. Said they were demoing them and anything I could do to break up the concrete would be a help. Loved those jobs.


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## tree MDS (Jun 2, 2012)

TreeAce said:


> I am about 90% sure I am gonna rig it all the way down. Or at least most of it, then just piece em off when I am close enough to the ground that I am comfy any free falling. Based on the comments I dont think its worth the risk of dropping it across the walk. It can be done though, thats a fact. But i dont think I wanna try it. I can afford to spend time on this tree so why rush. The HO is very impressed so far so I wanna keep it that way. We also have been working on clearing the hillside that goes down to Lake Erie. Thats been fun.



Yep.. man suit time baby!! Too bad the lean is towards the house though, that makes it a bit more of a PITA..

What do you think the diameter of that thing is? looks to be pretty big!


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## TreeAce (Jun 14, 2012)

Finishing this tree was postponed per the HO request. They asked that we concentrate on finishing clearing the hillside because there neighbors are having a party and they want to get the view of the beach. Clearing that hill has been interesting. Def different. Pays good and the HO is very happy so its a win win. I pulled a line parallel to the hill about 20 feet high and put a pulley on it with a line to throw down the hill. I cut stuff n choked it and then we used my small stumper to pull the stuff up. Worked pretty darn good. That hill is pretty steep and was a fair work out. I had an "SRT" line to use in certain spots. We are going back to finish the Tulip on Wednesday.

And also, kinda funny but the Tulip seemed to shrink alittle when I looked at yesterday. which is rare cuz they tend to grow. Although dropping that spar would still be a nice time saver, I am def not doing it. Gonna rig it


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## TreeAce (Jun 14, 2012)




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## tree MDS (Jun 14, 2012)

TreeAce said:


> Finishing this tree was postponed per the HO request. They asked that we concentrate on finishing clearing the hillside because there neighbors are having a party and they want to get the view of the beach. Clearing that hill has been interesting. Def different. Pays good and the HO is very happy so its a win win. I pulled a line parallel to the hill about 20 feet high and put a pulley on it with a line to throw down the hill. I cut stuff n choked it and then we used my small stumper to pull the stuff up. Worked pretty darn good. That hill is pretty steep and was a fair work out. I had an "SRT" line to use in certain spots. We are going back to finish the Tulip on Wednesday.
> 
> And also, kinda funny but the Tulip seemed to shrink alittle when I looked at yesterday. which is rare cuz they tend to grow. Although dropping that spar would still be a nice time saver, I am def not doing it. Gonna rig it



Please keep us informed!!


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## tree md (Jun 15, 2012)

Well if was a little smaller you could pull this number on it... But I wouldn't advise it on anything that big...


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## arborjockey (Jun 15, 2012)

:jawdrop: what in the wide world of tree work it that? A planned cut by a pro or a homeowner backcut barber bomb. Either or


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## Slvrmple72 (Jun 15, 2012)

Tree MD, I watched an old fella shatter his jaw doing that stupid ass cut!


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## TreeAce (Jun 21, 2012)

Other than a pile of stump chips that we will deal with tomorrow, this job is done. It was very uneventful. I roped out three pieces and by that time the area between the house and the walk looked pretty huge. I just chunked em out in about 20 inch cuts. I put some wood along the plywood by the house and they did there Job. A couple unruly ones tried to ram the house and a few bounced and flipped like a huge coin but went parallel with the house so it was cool. Basically it went well. As nice as dropping that log woulda been, I am glad I didn't risk it. View attachment 242538
View attachment 242539
View attachment 242540


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## Toddppm (Jun 21, 2012)

Good job, glad nothing got Murphed up


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## arborjockey (Jun 23, 2012)

I can't believe you used plywood. Do realize what will happen if this poor guy hit the the place, in the real world, what would happen? 




TreeAce said:


> Do you understand what happens if I fck up the siding or the walk way? I doubt it. It looks a little different in real life btw. There are roots in that ivy to think about also. If a chunk bounces into the plywood leaning against the house it would likely still do alittle damage. I consider scuffs,dings,and small dents as damage. I guess I just think like an owner, ya know....the guy who is ultimately responsible for everything.



In all honesty the tree was bigger in tne last set of pics. then it looked in the 1st set. Actually the last set looked like if the gm had a rope he could have pulled the chunks over the walk onto the grass. Well a padded grass area. Anyhew glad it worked out.


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## jefflovstrom (Jun 23, 2012)

arborjockey said:


> I can't believe you used plywood.



Maybe it was 'Magic plywood!"
Jeff :msp_scared:


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## tree md (Jun 28, 2012)

Slvrmple72 said:


> Tree MD, I watched an old fella shatter his jaw doing that stupid ass cut!



Actually, I was nowhere near the tree when it came over... We had secured it and locked it off with a rope then I made the cut and got on the line with my groundy to pull it over... it might be 12" wood but whatever... To each their own.


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## arborjockey (Jun 28, 2012)

:jawdrop:


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## FanOFatherNash (Aug 13, 2012)

Before you attempt it 

Daniels precision falling video is a must watch


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## TreeSurfer (Aug 14, 2012)

Dont break that line!!! classic daniel line


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