# Finished My Mill



## 820wards (Dec 13, 2009)

Well Guys,

I did my final assembly today on my Mill. It has been a lot of fun building the mill using the 820 PowerBee motor in loo of using a true chainsaw. I've attached pictures I took today after assembling the mill. I'm using a 38" bar on the mill with the ability to run a larger bar. 

The motor is brand new so I'll run the motor a bit on the rich side and do a stop and start while sawing on my first log.

jerry-



























I'll post more pictures

jerry-


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## 820wards (Dec 13, 2009)

More Pictures Of Mill


























jerry-


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## 820wards (Dec 13, 2009)

Last Pictures





















That's it

jerry-


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## irishcountry (Dec 13, 2009)

Wow nice work!!! Could you take a pic of the motor to chain connection? Did you use a harvester sprocket? Just curious wondering how you could do the same type of thing with say a vert. shaft lawnmower engine. Can't wait to see that results after you get to use it top notch craftsmanship!!


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## Woodsurfer (Dec 13, 2009)

That is really impressive work. Can you get the same same chain speed as a chainsaw? What's the HP rating of your motor? Let us know how it performs!


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## 820wards (Dec 13, 2009)

irishcountry said:


> Wow nice work!!! Could you take a pic of the motor to chain connection? Did you use a harvester sprocket? Just curious wondering how you could do the same type of thing with say a vert. shaft lawnmower engine. Can't wait to see that results after you get to use it top notch craftsmanship!!



Irish,

Here are some pictures of how I fabricated the clutch drum.

The original drum was one that was for a go-cart. I machined the gear off the drum with my lathe and then cut the center section out with my plasma cutter. I didn't even think to take a picture of that process, but anyone who has tried machine a clutch drum will know it is hardened and very hard to machine. I made a mandrel that fit the drum so I could turn and cut it with my plasma cutter.

This is the clutch drum I cut to get the .404 x 7 drive section. It was the same process to cut the go-cart drum. 






This is what the drum looked like after I cut it with the plasma cutter. It was so quick and clean of a cut, I didn't have much to machine on the lathe.

[IMG]http://www.arboristsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118077&stc=1&d=1260757592


This is a picture of the two drums mounted on the lathe so I could align both pieces together for perfect alignment. 






This picture is after I EasyFlowed (Hard Silver Solder) the two pieces together with the appropriate needle bearing. You cannot tig or mig this type of assembly together because of the hardening they do to the drums. The best was is to braze with hard silver if you have the torches to do the job.






This picture is the clutch and drum mounted on the motor. I have a WARDS 820 that I made the same drum for about 20 years ago and all I have ever had to do is replace the .404 x 7 drive piece when I wore the chains out.







Hope this shows what I did OK.

jerry-


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## deeker (Dec 13, 2009)

I hate people like you. 

Well engineered and clean......jeeeeeeeeeze........

Looks fantastic....now get it dirty and lets see it in action..

What kind of hp/torque are you making with it??

Kevin


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## isaaccarlson (Dec 13, 2009)

*Don't get that thing dirty.....NICE WORK!!! nt*

.


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## 820wards (Dec 13, 2009)

Woodsurfer said:


> That is really impressive work. Can you get the same same chain speed as a chainsaw? What's the HP rating of your motor? Let us know how it performs!



Wood surfer,

The 820 PowerBee motors have been used on a number of chain saws. I have a Montgomery 820 that used the same motor as I have used on the mill. The motor on the mill has been updated to a 1" intake manifold and carb. The Wards saw I have has the same carburetor in a 90 degree intake, electronic ignition and carbon fiber reed valves. I'm running a 30" Cannon bar and it cuts dry Oak like butter. My saw probably operates in the 7,000-8,500 RPM range, but it has plenty of torque.

There a a number of competition saw build on the WARDS frame. My friend Art Martin built a saw with this motor w/duel carburetors. 

Here are a few pictures of the saw with the 820 PowerBee Motor.


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## 820wards (Dec 13, 2009)

deeker said:


> I hate people like you.
> 
> Well engineered and clean......jeeeeeeeeeze........
> 
> ...



Kevin,

Thanks, I'm ready to get it dirty....:chainsawguy:

I'm hoping this coming week to fire the new motor, but it's supposed to be raining again all week. 

As for HP, the stock motor makes 12-13hp using the stock 7/8" bore carb. I have installed a 1" intake and carburetor so if I get 1hp more, that would be great! As for torque, it has plenty, that is why I'm using a .404 x 7 pitch drive it won't bog down under a heavy load. I'm using the same carburetor on my WARDS saw.

My buddy had to cut a healthy ash tree down in front of his house so that is what we are planning to test the mill on. I'll post how it operated when we mill the tree. With the holidays sneaking up on me, I'm not sure when we'll be able to mill.

jerry-


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## 820wards (Dec 13, 2009)

isaaccarlson said:


> .



I have to get it dirty, that's why I built it. I need wood!!!!!


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## BobL (Dec 13, 2009)

I agree the workmanship is absolutely outstanding. 

The one thing I'm still having trouble with is the ergonomics of the handle. Unless the log is small (ie <18" diameter) so the operator can straddle the log with their legs, the operator will have to stand over to the side of the log. The handle then is located directly above the log - see picture below. 






To use both hands on the handle the operator will have to either place their left hand across their body or stand sideways and apply forward pressure sideways. I can see right away this will be OK for about 5 minutes and seriously fatiguing after that.

Now what will happen when the saw bogs down against the side of the log. The handle will have to be see sawed sideways - that should not be a problem and should easily unbog the saw but easing the saw back into the cut using a controlled sideways push will not be so easy. What I can see happening is the potential for continual saw bogging. 

After experimenting with a lot of handle placements I reckon the best place for a handle that provides sufficient leverage to unbog a saw and then ease it back into the cut is one somewhere higher up near the power head (purple handle) and one near the cross piece on the mill. In this position there will be, moderate arm separation, minimal body twisting and maximum control. 

Of course this is just my opinion and your mileage may vary.


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## 820wards (Dec 13, 2009)

BobL said:


> I agree the workmanship is absolutely outstanding.
> 
> Thanks Bob, coming from you I'm honored after seeing the stuff you have built.
> 
> ...


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## Metals406 (Dec 13, 2009)

That's some clean fab!!


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## irishcountry (Dec 13, 2009)

Thanks for the pics 820 looks like you know what your doing!!


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## 820wards (Dec 13, 2009)

Metals406 said:


> That's some clean fab!!



Thanks You

jerry-


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## 820wards (Dec 13, 2009)

irishcountry said:


> Thanks for the pics 820 looks like you know what your doing!!



I'm sure I'll some bugs to work on once I get it running.

jerry-


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## petersenj20 (Dec 13, 2009)

*Rep to ya brother!*

I've thought it strange for a long time now that I have never seen a standard engine on a chainsaw bar. Well now....Lookiee here. I assume this is a 2 stroke engine?

Any fab guy could come up with an engine mount, but your drive sprocket is pure genius! That seems to be the hold up with this kind of mod. You got the cogs rolling and now its time to make something. HF has 6.5hp engines on sale for $129. Hmmmmmmm......


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## 820wards (Dec 14, 2009)

petersenj20 said:


> I've thought it strange for a long time now that I have never seen a standard engine on a chainsaw bar. Well now....Lookiee here. I assume this is a 2 stroke engine?
> 
> Yes, it's a two stroke motor.
> 
> Any fab guy could come up with an engine mount, but your drive sprocket is pure genius! That seems to be the hold up with this kind of mod. You got the cogs rolling and now its time to make something. HF has 6.5hp engines on sale for $129. Hmmmmmmm......



Go for it!

jerry-


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## BobL (Dec 14, 2009)

820wards said:


> As for my hand positions, I'll be operating the throttle with my left hand and pumping the oilier with my right hand. Plus, the handle I made that my left hand will be on is long so I can hold it high or low.



I'm sorry to harp on this but I really do want to save you some time. The left and right hand positions still don't sound right. I assume you are standing in front of the carby, if so then I assume your left hand will be on the oiler and the right will be on the throttle? If you plan to push from the oiler handle it is too high and will want to tip the mill over. Maybe a photo of you holding onto it will help explain what you mean?

Anyway, you are right - 10 minutes of working with it and you will either find a way to live with it or modify it accordingly. It's a very interesting design and provides much food for thought and inspiration for us all.


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## BlueRider (Dec 14, 2009)

I will be in San Jose on Wednsday the 16th milling a large elm tree. I am coming from out of town and due to travel and scheduling logistics I will be milling rain or shine. You are welcome to bring your mill down and take a slice or two as a test run. If you are interested send me a PM with your PH and I will give you a call with the location.

Nice mill.


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## 820wards (Dec 14, 2009)

BobL said:


> I'm sorry to harp on this but I really do want to save you some time. The left and right hand positions still don't sound right. I assume you are standing in front of the carby, if so then I assume your left hand will be on the oiler and the right will be on the throttle?
> 
> ** Bob, I will be operating the oilier with my left hand and the throttle with my right. I appreciate your concern for operating the mill. I to want it to be easy to operate, so don't feel like your harping. I like constructive criticism. Different eyes see things I don't see.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the input Bob, you always have good suggestions.


jerry-


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## 820wards (Dec 27, 2009)

820wards said:


> I'm sure I'll some bugs to work on once I get it running.
> 
> jerry-



Got the mill engine running today. What a beast! 

My brother and I tuned the carburetor today and ran a tank of fuel through it. The bar oilier works pretty good but, I think I'm going to reduce the orifice size at the nose oilier. It's too large and I'm not getting the pressure I want. I'm getting oil, but not the amount I want when I actuate the oiling lever. I think I'm going to try getting out Tuesday with my friend try milling an Ash trunk he has. 

With the 1" intake manifold, ported exhaust port and 2" exhaust pipe, this motor really breaths good. It is *VERY:chainsawguy:* loud. I'm going to have to look into some sore of bike muffler that is not to big. At 134cc's it really has power. I can't wait to see what it will do milling.

The exhaust is so loud a neighbor two blocks away actually drove over to see what was making all the racket. He explained he had a young child that he was trying to get down for a nap. Funny thing, three years ago I was tuning my 820 WARDS saw and the same guy came over and said the same thing. I told him that he was lucky that I was all done tuning the motor for the day. I guess I just interrupted his couch potato day... I rocked the neighborhood today guys! :rockn:


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## olyman (Dec 27, 2009)

me thinks id build some sort of cover over the air filter---like a piece of thin wall conduit--and extend it away from the cutting---as it may pick up a lot of wood fibers flying---------over the outside of the filter--then with a down elbow on the end--would weigh little-----------------and i hope--the neighbor aint going to be a----------!!!!!!!!!


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## 820wards (Dec 27, 2009)

olyman said:


> me thinks id build some sort of cover over the air filter---like a piece of thin wall conduit--and extend it away from the cutting---as it may pick up a lot of wood fibers flying---------over the outside of the filter--then with a down elbow on the end--would weigh little-----------------and i hope--the neighbor aint going to be a----------!!!!!!!!!



I was just talking to my friend about adding additional filter material around the air filter for milling. We have a plan....

Thanks
jerry-


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## BobL (Dec 28, 2009)

I can hear the mean sound from here 820! Sort of rumbly throaty??



820wards said:


> I was just talking to my friend about adding additional filter material around the air filter for milling. We have a plan....
> 
> Thanks
> jerry-



I agree with Olyman, it's right in the firing line for dust, Maybe a wrap around cowling/cover?

How is the chip direction ejection situation look? 

Cheers


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## BIG JAKE (Dec 28, 2009)

Beautiful assy there Jerry-great fab work. Very nice! Only two things I could imagine you'd want in addition (cut height adjust screws and wheels on the bottom slide plates(other than fine tuning layouts such as handle pos if needed). Gad dang-very nice indeed! A video with sound down the road if you have time Jerry as I'd like to hear run. What is the dry weight of the rig? Thanks for posting.


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## splitpost (Dec 28, 2009)

very nice ,looks almost surgical


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## dallasm1 (Dec 28, 2009)

That is SO awesome. NEED video.http://arboristsite.com/images/smilies/jawdrop.gif


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## mtngun (Dec 28, 2009)

820wards said:


> The bar oilier works pretty good but, I think I'm going to reduce the orifice size at the nose oilier. It's too large and I'm not getting the pressure I want. I'm getting oil, but not the amount I want when I actuate the oiling lever.


Excellent workmanship, 820wards, but I'm not getting why you need to pump oil with a lever. Why not use a gravity drip like the rest of us ?


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## Ted J (Dec 28, 2009)

mtngun said:


> Excellent workmanship, 820wards, but I'm not getting why you need to pump oil with a lever. Why not use a gravity drip like the rest of us ?



You could always add air pressure to the oil container and use the hand lever just to control flow while milling.


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## BobL (Dec 28, 2009)

mtngun said:


> Excellent workmanship, 820wards, but I'm not getting why you need to pump oil with a lever. Why not use a gravity drip like the rest of us ?



His power head has no integrated oil pump, so if he wants to guarantee oil somewhere in the bar groove - as per a CS power head, I agree he should pump it. At 134 cc that thing will cook a B&C pretty quickly without oil. If an aux oiler blocks on a conventional set up, hopefully the powerhead continues to supply some oil but on his setup he will want something a bit more certain. One of the small headaches of using a straight motor - I guess.


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## 820wards (Dec 28, 2009)

BobL said:


> I can hear the mean sound from here 820! Sort of rumbly throaty??
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Bob,

The wraparound filter material is what I'm planning to use. My brother is in the air-conditioning business and he has some filter material I can cut and wrap the filter element. He told me it should be good for the fine dust the chain will make. This way I can change the material during a day of milling.

As for chip deflection. I did make a deflector for the chips. Since I have not milled any wood with the mill yet, I can't report how good it works.

I was hoping to mill this week, but we have rain forecast for the remainder of the week. If if stops by this weekend, I just my get the mill out.

jerry-


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## 820wards (Dec 28, 2009)

BIG JAKE;
Beautiful assy there Jerry-great fab work. Very nice! Only two things I could imagine you'd want in addition (cut height adjust screws and wheels on the bottom slide plates

** When I initially built the mill I used the same design as the Alaskan mills. I have seen the wheel additions that Bob installed on his mill an how he bolts his bar to the adjustment posts. I will probably do this type conversion after I get the mill out and mill with it a few times. 

(other than fine tuning layouts such as handle pos if needed).

** I'm sure I will need additional handle holds and those will be easy to fab.

Gad dang-very nice indeed! A video with sound down the road if you have time Jerry as I'd like to hear run.

** Thanks, I plan to video the mill when I get it out. Rain in the forecast all this week, maybe this weekend it will let up and I can get the mill out.


What is the dry weight of the rig?

** Dry the mill weights 55 pounds. I have tried to fabricate as much of the mill from aluminum or thin wall stainless steel. The frame that the motor is bolted to is steel and I have drilled as many holes as possible in it to reduce it's weight, but it's still steel...

jerry-


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## 820wards (Dec 28, 2009)

dallasm1 said:


> That is SO awesome. NEED video.http://arboristsite.com/images/smilies/jawdrop.gif



I will, I will!

This rainy weather is killing me here that I can't get it out.

jerry-


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## 820wards (Dec 28, 2009)

mtngun said:


> Excellent workmanship, 820wards, but I'm not getting why you need to pump oil with a lever. Why not use a gravity drip like the rest of us ?



After getting the motor started for the first time this past weekend I'm thinking I may set up a second oil tank to drip feed the nose of the bar. The diameter of the nose oil fitting id is too large and trying to pump oil the nose isn't enough to my liking. The pump oils at the drive end of the bar great so I was hoping the pump would have enough oil pressure at both ends of the bar. It doesn't, so a drip oilier I know will work. I'll need to machine some fittings for another aluminum bottle this week since it will be raining.

jerry-


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## 820wards (Dec 29, 2009)

Ted J said:


> You could always add air pressure to the oil container and use the hand lever just to control flow while milling.



Ted,

I have thought of that too. It would be my luck I'd blow the tank up. 

I think I will use the tried and trued drip feed method like most people are using.

jerry-


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## 820wards (Dec 29, 2009)

BobL said:


> His power head has no integrated oil pump, so if he wants to guarantee oil somewhere in the bar groove - as per a CS power head, I agree he should pump it. At 134 cc that thing will cook a B&C pretty quickly without oil. If an aux oiler blocks on a conventional set up, hopefully the powerhead continues to supply some oil but on his setup he will want something a bit more certain. One of the small headaches of using a straight motor - I guess.



Bob is right, this is the biggest problem no using a traditional chainsaw. But, then it would be just another chainsaw mill. I have to have fun figuring this stuff out to make this engine work. 

Bob, 

If I were to use an old style Oregon roller tip that is exposed and not within the bar. I could attach a gear or shaft to it that I could turn a small pump to oil the bar just as a traditional saw would oil, right? ?????

jerry-


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## mtngun (Dec 29, 2009)

The only reason I put oil in my saw's oil tank is that I'm afraid it'll hurt the pump to run dry. The aux oiler seems to do most of the "work". I suspect that I could remove the pump and mill using only the aux oiler, though I haven't actually tried it.

Admittedly, I've had problems with the aux oiler plugging up. 

820wardsm, perhaps you already answered this earlier, but do you have any idea of your motor rpm's, either WOT or in the cut ? Just curious if your chain speed is anything out of the ordinary ?


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## BobL (Dec 29, 2009)

mtngun said:


> The only reason I put oil in my saw's oil tank is that I'm afraid it'll hurt the pump to run dry. The aux oiler seems to do most of the "work".


I agree it does, Going from the 19 mL/min max flow on the 076 to the 38 mL/min on the 880 what I see happening is most of that extra 19 mL/min getting flung off at the nose. Running the power head oiler at 19 mL/min and the aux oiler at 20 mL/min is much more effective that running just the power head oiler at 38 mL/min.



> I suspect that I could remove the pump and mill using only the aux oiler, though I haven't actually tried it.



You can always remove the oil pump completely but I would advise against this. The drive sprocket has a much smaller radius that the nose sprocket and is very effective at removing oil from the chain. If you stopped the powerhead oiler working the chain would have to do do a dry run across the back/top of the bar.



> Admittedly, I've had problems with the aux oiler plugging up.
> 
> 820wardsm, perhaps you already answered this earlier, but do you have any idea of your motor rpm's, either WOT or in the cut ? Just curious if your chain speed is anything out of the ordinary ?



Here's a spec sheet for that engine.
http://www.go-anywhere.us/USMotorPower820/htm820Motor.htm


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## BobL (Dec 29, 2009)

820wards said:


> Bob is right, this is the biggest problem no using a traditional chainsaw. But, then it would be just another chainsaw mill. I have to have fun figuring this stuff out to make this engine work.
> 
> Bob,
> 
> ...


Sounds good, @ 7000 rpm, you will need some gear reduction, maybe cannibalize an old CS oil pump?


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## BobL (Dec 29, 2009)

mtngun said:


> 820wardsm, perhaps you already answered this earlier, but do you have any idea of your motor rpm's, either WOT or in the cut ? Just curious if your chain speed is anything out of the ordinary ?



Jerry and I had this conversation way back when he first started.

Unless Jerry's done something to beef up bearings etc max RPM for continuous heavy duty use is rated at 7000 rpm. Assuming he has maxed the performance at this RPM this is nominally ~9.5HP and 6.8 lbft. With this much torque he's not going to lose too many rpms in a cut so lets stick to 7000 rpm.

At 7000 rpm, with a 9 pin 3/8 sprocket he's going to have 44.7 mph, with a 9 pin 404, 48.2 mph.

Compare that to an 880 on 3/8 chain doing 9500 in a cut thats 61 mph.
That's a difference of 36% less. 

The only way to go from here is increasing the cutting angle on cutters (or lower the rakers).

With that much torque up his sleeve he can look at a cutting angle of 10º which equivalent to a raker depth of 0.045" on new chain and progressively more thereafter which is what Will Malloff suggests for an 090. Theoretically this will create chips that are 80% bigger than 0.025" rakers but this will also reduce RPM in the cut - to what? I have no idea.

In theory that will make Jerry's mean machine about 44% faster than an 880 but I doubt that will be the case. My guess is it will be closer to the proportional difference in cc ie 134/121 = 11%?


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## whitworthsocket (Dec 29, 2009)

*Superb Engineering*

Jerry,
You have done a fine job. Very neatly engineered.
My only comment for improvement is that.
I would like to see you put some finger protection over the nosebar guard.
Maybe polycarbonate or aluminium sheet.
Keep up the good work.
I am keen to learn how well it cuts.

Regards
Whitworthsocket


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## mtngun (Dec 29, 2009)

BobL said:


> Jerry and I had this conversation way back when he first started.
> 
> Unless Jerry's done something to beef up bearings etc max RPM for continuous heavy duty use is rated at 7000 rpm. Assuming he has maxed the performance at this RPM this is nominally ~9.5HP and 6.8 lbft. With this much torque he's not going to lose too many rpms in a cut so lets stick to 7000 rpm.
> 
> ...


Thanks for clearing that up, Bob. Torque sounds great in theory but in practice chain speed in the cut wins the race, hence the trend toward higher revving saws.

What I was getting at is there doesn't seem to be any unusual lubrication requirements. 

But, it is still an interesting and well executed design. It's thought provoking to see someone create a new CSM design instead of following the crowd.


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## Kicker_92 (Dec 29, 2009)

BobL said:


> Assuming he has maxed the performance at this RPM this is nominally ~9.5HP and 6.8 lbft. With this much torque he's not going to lose too many rpms in a cut so lets stick to 7000 rpm.



Do you know what the torque curve for the 880 engine looks like for comparison? I'm curious how quickly it drops off as the rpms fall.


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## 820wards (Dec 29, 2009)

BobL said:


> Jerry and I had this conversation way back when he first started.
> 
> Unless Jerry's done something to beef up bearings etc max RPM for continuous heavy duty use is rated at 7000 rpm. Assuming he has maxed the performance at this RPM this is nominally ~9.5HP and 6.8 lbft. With this much torque he's not going to lose too many rpms in a cut so lets stick to 7000 rpm.
> 
> ...




Bob,

Thanks for this information. I was wondering if I could lower the rakers because the motor does create more torque. 

I have no way of testing the RPM on the motor at this time. With the larger carb/intake I should get more RPM from the motor.

thanks
jerry-


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## BobL (Dec 29, 2009)

820wards said:


> I have no way of testing the RPM on the motor at this time. With the larger carb/intake I should get more RPM from the motor.



Sure I understand that, and the power curves show the RPM going to 8000 and I'm sure it can do more. But these curves also show 5 pieces of useful information.






1) Recommended continuous RPM range 5000 - 7000 rpm - and for the rest of the discussion I'll stick to this range
2) The Maximum HP: 7 HP @ 5000 rpm and 9.5 at 7000 rpm
3) Recommended Maximum COntinuous Operating HP 6.2 to 6.5 HP
4) The Maximum Torque: 7.5 lbft @ 5000 rpm and 6.8 lbft at 7000 rpm
5) Recommended Maximum Continuous Operating Torque 7.5 to 4.5 lbft

The way I interpret those figures is that while it is possible to extract 9.5 HP and 6.8 lbft out of the 820, the maximum continuous operation HP/Torque that should be extracted from the engine are the lesser set. I guess one set of data are for some sort of racing config and the other is for endurance tasks

I assume they give these two ranges because the lesser set are all the, crank, con rod, piston, cylinder, rings etc can take on a continuous long term basis. So even though your carby and intake are larger and the engine is capable of more RPM and more HP/Torque, one could still ask is the rest of the engine up to the task?

For all I know the 820 specs may be conservative and the engine may well be strong enough to take the sort of punishment that is involved in milling. Pro CS manufacturers are well aware as to what their users do with their products. One of the reasons the 090 is around 50% heavier than the 820 is because everything on the 090 is beefed up to take the continuous battering that happens during continuous high load WOT operation. The pistons and cylinders on pro CS power heads are rated for a minimum 2000 hours of continuous WOT full load - thats 8 hours a day for 5 days a week for 50 weeks. It doesn't sound like much but there are not many other small engines that can operate for this long under these conditions.


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## sachsmo (Dec 29, 2009)

*beauty*



820wards said:


> Wood surfer,
> 
> The 820 PowerBee motors have been used on a number of chain saws. I have a Montgomery 820 that used the same motor as I have used on the mill. The motor on the mill has been updated to a 1" intake manifold and carb. The Wards saw I have has the same carburetor in a 90 degree intake, electronic ignition and carbon fiber reed valves. I'm running a 30" Cannon bar and it cuts dry Oak like butter. My saw probably operates in the 7,000-8,500 RPM range, but it has plenty of torque.
> 
> ...







I love that saw!








It reminds me of the old Johnson 35 Golden Javelin my dad had when we were kids.

It was behind an 15 ft. Lyman lapstrake speedboat.



That old 2 stroker had a really mean idle, and would scream at wide open throttle.


It threw some needle bearings, Dad bored it out and put some big slugs in it.



My Dad was a Master Mechanic.


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## 820wards (Dec 29, 2009)

BobL said:


> Jerry and I had this conversation way back when he first started.
> 
> Unless Jerry's done something to beef up bearings etc max RPM for continuous heavy duty use is rated at 7000 rpm. Assuming he has maxed the performance at this RPM this is nominally ~9.5HP and 6.8 lbft. With this much torque he's not going to lose too many rpms in a cut so lets stick to 7000 rpm.
> 
> ...





Bob,

I hope folks are not thinking that I'm trying to compare or compete with an 880 or 090 saw. I am using this motor because of it's simplicity it's power and the fact that I purchased it new for a very reasonable price. I'm also using it because I didn't want to spend $2K on a saw that is not going to see extended weeks of milling like a larger saw might do. This may also be a way for people to look at other options for motors to mill wood. I will do some milling and report back to the thread what I found that worked and didn't. 

jerry-


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## BobL (Dec 29, 2009)

820wards said:


> Bob,
> 
> I hope folks are not thinking that I'm trying to compare or compete with an 880 or 090 saw. I am using this motor because of it's simplicity it's power and the fact that I purchased it new for a very reasonable price. I'm also using it because I didn't want to spend $2K on a saw that is not going to see extended weeks of milling like a larger saw might do. This may also be a way for people to look at other options for motors to mill wood. I will do some milling and report back to the thread what I found that worked and didn't.
> 
> jerry-



Jerry, Sorry if it sounded like I setting up some sort of a competition. What I was trying to do was to give the other members some sort of spec comparison of cc-hp-torque etc with a CS they might be familiar with. 

I'm right behind you on trying out this "gutsy" lightweight motor and as you say ". . . a way for people to look at other options for motors to mill wood" , and your workmanship and attention is a great example to us all. Like you say - if it handles periodic mill just fine it could a cheaper way for folks to access powerful milling engines - and even if it runs for only half the time of a regular CS before needing an overhaul that's still an awful lot of milled lumber to deal with!


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## whitworthsocket (Dec 30, 2009)

Jerry,
We are all waiting as Im sure you are too to go and try out your amazing saw.
It takes a special type of person to think outside the square and thats what you have done.
I wish you every success.
Regards Whitworthsocket


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## sachsmo (Dec 31, 2009)

820wards said:


> Bob,
> 
> I hope folks are not thinking that I'm trying to compare or compete with an 880 or 090 saw. I am using this motor because of it's simplicity it's power and the fact that I purchased it new for a very reasonable price. I'm also using it because I didn't want to spend $2K on a saw that is not going to see extended weeks of milling like a larger saw might do. This may also be a way for people to look at other options for motors to mill wood. I will do some milling and report back to the thread what I found that worked and didn't.
> 
> jerry-



Super engineering on that mill, the one I built took considerably less thought.

If that Wards 820 ever needs a new home, you can PM me anytime!

I've never seen another, and yours is a creampuff. Nice, nice old saw!

Like I said earlier, looking at that beauty brought back some very fond memories. Thanks, and Happy New Year! Mo


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## 820wards (Jan 1, 2010)

*I Milled Wed-Thur Finally....*

Bob,

Finally got to mill yesterday and today. I'm addicted.....

The mill worked flawless. The clutch I built works perfect, I think anyone needing a clutch for an odd application, this works!

Only problem was two screws that hold the handle vibrated loose. When I assembled the mill after painting I forgot to locltite them. I think I will also back them up with a nylock nut.

Here are some pictures of what we milled. It is a Ash tree from my friends front yard he had to take down last year.






Tree Ready for Milling





First Cut





Three slabs from this log





Bob, me after we milled, back was OK after two days of milling. The handle bar worked really good. Leverage was good and easy to guide the saw through the log.





I clipped an image from one of the other pieces we milled.

I did put together a temporary drip feed nose oil bottle from a gear lube bottle. I'll be making another aluminum bottle to replace it as soon as I machine the fitting bungs. I only used the manual oil pump for the sprocket end of the mill and it put out plenty of oil.

Now, I have a video of the saw in operation I would like to post. Can anyone tell me how I can do that? The saw sounds nasty, and had way more power than I expected. It cut through the logs with ease. 

Guys, I've had enjoyment building this saw and I know I will enjoy using it this coming New Year.

Happy New Year to everyone!

jerry-


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## 820wards (Jan 1, 2010)

whitworthsocket said:


> Jerry,
> We are all waiting as Im sure you are too to go and try out your amazing saw.
> It takes a special type of person to think outside the square and thats what you have done.
> I wish you every success.
> Regards Whitworthsocket



Thanks, my friend Brandt and my son Chris used it today and we had great fun milling. My mill does not have measuring increments on it so we sawed blocks the thickness we wanted the slabs and marked them accordingly for future use. Sure saved time setting the slab thickness.

We even cut one log that we sliced a piece off that was only 1/4" thick. Veneer? The mill cut very true/flat and on every cut. I was very please to look down the slabs to see a very flat surface. 

jerry-


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## 820wards (Jan 1, 2010)

mobetter said:


> Super engineering on that mill, the one I built took considerably less thought.
> 
> Like I said earlier, looking at that beauty brought back some very fond memories. Thanks, and Happy New Year! Mo





Thanks.

If that Wards 820 ever needs a new home, you can PM me anytime!

** I've had a lot of offers for the saw. It was the first saw my Dad bought and at 15yrs. old it was the first saw I ever used. What a way to learn.

I've never seen another, and yours is a creampuff. Nice, nice old saw!

Here is a picture of one that Art Martin built from a frame I found getting ready to go to a local aluminum recycle place. The frame was broken right at the trigger pivot and I was able to tig weld it back together. I then drilled and tapped the pivot for 5/16" and thread and JB Welded a 5/16" aluminum rod I made. I then re-drilled the trigger pivot hole. No slop in that trigger. Art built a race saw from that frame and did a gorgeous job. 

Here are some pictures of the finished saw running duel carbs, shaved fan blades and cool paint scheme.

















Glad you like seeing the old saw still in use.

jerry-


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## 820wards (Jan 1, 2010)

Here is some video of the mill in action. It's nasty loud!

There are also other detailed pictures of the mill in my photobucket.

jerry-

http://s450.photobucket.com/albums/qq222/820wards/?action=view&current=Production2em.flv


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## sachsmo (Jan 1, 2010)

Thanks for the vid, and pics of the dual carbed 820 (082).

I can see, or should I say *hear* why they called that old screamer an Power Bee. Man that engine sounds like a torque Monster!
Props for the excellent engineering and choice of powerplant.

That engine is an old moPar engine is it not?

I think Mike Acres site lists the powerheads as coming from Chrysler marine division.


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## olyman (Jan 1, 2010)

jerry, others have spoke of it in regular cs's. after they came thru the cut--it slowed down,and they shut it off--some have mentioned not to do that--let it idle for a bit--to cool it down--as milling really creats heat-the one time i milled the cottonwood with a old 090--i let it idle for about 1 min--


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## flashy (Jan 1, 2010)

820wards said:


> Here is some video of the mill in action. * It's nasty loud!*



Being in an enclosed area makes it seem louder.


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## irishcountry (Jan 1, 2010)

Awesome job like the vid!! Keep up the good work and have fun with the end result of your hard work!! Happy New Year


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## TNMIKE (Jan 1, 2010)

Great job. That is about the slickest homemade alaskan type mill I have seen. Those old saws sound more like motorcycle engines than chainsaws. Ive got two old David Bradleys that will deafen you.

Thanks for posting...


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## 820wards (Jan 1, 2010)

olyman said:


> jerry, others have spoke of it in regular cs's. after they came thru the cut--it slowed down,and they shut it off--some have mentioned not to do that--let it idle for a bit--to cool it down--as milling really creats heat-the one time i milled the cottonwood with a old 090--i let it idle for about 1 min--



I would have let it idle between cuts, but we were dealing with a neighbor with a new baby and we didn't want to make that loud of noise too long. In future milling I will be out in the open where I can let it idol after making cuts. Beining under a pattio cover didn't help either, it just amplified the noise.

Thanks for the reminder.

jerry-


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## 820wards (Jan 1, 2010)

mobetter said:


> Thanks for the vid, and pics of the dual carbed 820 (082).
> 
> I can see, or should I say *hear* why they called that old screamer an Power Bee. Man that engine sounds like a torque Monster!
> Props for the excellent engineering and choice of powerplant.
> ...




This motor is a Chrysler engine. From what I researched on the PowerBee motors the Chrysler motor had the best tolerances during manufacturing. The motors were manufactured for a snow scooter that Chrysler Marine Division marketed back East. I can only imagine riding something like that. Being a West Coast guy, we never saw anything like that out here.

jerry-


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## 820wards (Jan 1, 2010)

flashy said:


> Being in an enclosed area makes it seem louder.



We were wearing ear plugs and the ear muffs. The patio cover really made it louder. That will be the last time we mill like that for sure.

jerry-


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## sachsmo (Jan 1, 2010)

820wards said:


> This motor is a Chrysler engine. From what I researched on the PowerBee motors the Chrysler motor had the best tolerances during manufacturing. The motors were manufactured for a snow scooter that Chrysler Marine Division marketed back East. I can only imagine riding something like that. Being a West Coast guy, we never saw anything like that out here.
> 
> jerry-





Cool stuff Jerry,


Now I really want one of those Wards 820s. Is that cream/gold color scheme original? Wow! looks like Dads old outboard, and made by his favorite Auto Company. Any other saws that you can think of use that powerhead?


Thanks Man, Mo


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## Kicker_92 (Jan 1, 2010)

Very nice mill, and thanks for the video!

You might want to try dropping those rakers a bunch, you've got tons of torque to make use of. It looks a bit scary when the chain first grabs into the wood!

I'm sure in larger wood that mill will really shine...


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## 820wards (Jan 1, 2010)

mobetter said:


> Cool stuff Jerry,
> 
> 
> Now I really want one of those Wards 820s. Is that cream/gold color scheme original? Wow! looks like Dads old outboard, and made by his favorite Auto Company. Any other saws that you can think of use that powerhead?
> ...




The cream/gold color scheme is the original colors for the saw. 

West Ben sold their version using the 820. There is one other saw, but I can't remember. I'll do some checking.

jerry-


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## 820wards (Jan 1, 2010)

Kicker_92 said:


> Very nice mill, and thanks for the video!
> 
> You might want to try dropping those rakers a bunch, you've got tons of torque to make use of. It looks a bit scary when the chain first grabs into the wood!
> 
> I'm sure in larger wood that mill will really shine...




The chain was new, so I though I'd try it with the factory height. When I sharpen the chain I will try lowering the rakers by .005" and try it that way. 

Would I want a deeper cut for only soft woods or is it OK for hard woods like Oak which I plan to mill?

Starting the first cut I should have had the side guide next to the wood and I didn't, it's a learning curve thing. Once into the wood it cut easily. I was only using 3/4 throttle and I'm running the fuel mixture a bit rich. Being a new motor and burning a piston or scoring a cylinder running it flat out is not what I wanted to do. 

jerry-


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## Kicker_92 (Jan 1, 2010)

820wards said:


> The chain was new, so I though I'd try it with the factory height. When I sharp the chain I will try lowering the rakers by .005" and try it that way.
> jerry-



I've been finding that the surface finish is more determined by the filing angle than the raker depth, at least in the Fir (softwood) that I've been cutting. For your setup, since your already on a 9-pin sprocket, lowering the rakers is going to be your main way of controlling the feedrate and rpm in the cut.

Have fun!


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## striperswaper (Jan 4, 2010)

excellent craftsmanship!
if you are still looking for some type of muffler, you might want to look into Supertrapp. not cheap but from what you have done I would think you copy their design or just buy the discs from them. its a tunable design so you can get a power and sound balance that you like by increasing/decreasing the number of discs you install
happy milling and post vids when you get it some big wood


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## 820wards (Jan 10, 2010)

striperswaper said:


> excellent craftsmanship!
> if you are still looking for some type of muffler, you might want to look into Supertrapp. not cheap but from what you have done I would think you copy their design or just buy the discs from them. its a tunable design so you can get a power and sound balance that you like by increasing/decreasing the number of discs you install
> happy milling and post vids when you get it some big wood



Had a guy that my brother works with gave me a similar muffler from a 400cc Suzuski. I'm going to see if I can modify it for the mill.

jerry-


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## striperswaper (Jan 10, 2010)

post some pics
does it have fiberglass that you can repack?
depending on sound level you probably will need far fewer discs than 400cc
used


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## 820wards (Jan 12, 2010)

striperswaper said:


> post some pics
> does it have fiberglass that you can repack?
> depending on sound level you probably will need far fewer discs than 400cc
> used



Haven't had time to mess with it yet, so I don't know if it is fiberglass or metal disks in the muffler. Went out milling yesterday on a Russian Elm tree. I have a line on a big Camphor tree next week so I'll try getting to the muffler later this week. 

jerry-


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