# Hot blast enemy or friend



## Cpeder (Dec 11, 2014)

Installed hot blast last year on mostly coal. Wasn't bad but I have way to much fire wood so I got to splitting wood shed building.. The the trouble started. Either to got or not hot enough 4 hour burns house at 78... House temp was a bit hot for my liking but I felt with it. Problem started with way to much creosote in less then a month. Wood is 15% moisture. Installed a BD now I get even fires but stack temps are 250 with 350 face temp on stove. Not sure if this is my friend or sell the enemy and got to a kuuma. House is new 2500sqft very very air tight. No draft blower installed.


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## brenndatomu (Dec 11, 2014)

Cpeder said:


> sell the enemy and got to a kuuma


Ding ding ding ding WINNER!


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## Cpeder (Dec 11, 2014)

Should have found this site sooner I must say....


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## brenndatomu (Dec 11, 2014)

Yeah, a lot of that goin around. Better late than never...FWIW the Kuumas are REALLY well liked among the owners. I'd have one if the money was there for it...


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## newyorker (Dec 11, 2014)

i love my caddy but if i had double the money i would of bought the kuuma


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## Cpeder (Dec 11, 2014)

Agreed!! My propane furnace is pretty efficient so with no wood or coal I'd be looking at about $1ooo max over winter in propane. Makes the return on my money for the kuuma about 5years. I have plenty of wood to fuel the hot blast wood waster just tired of 4-5 hour burns like everyone else. 

Wood shed after paint. Loaded with wood at the moment


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## brenndatomu (Dec 11, 2014)

Cpeder said:


> I'd be looking at about $1ooo max over winter in propane. Makes the return on my money for the kuuma about 5years.


Not bad on something that will last ya 20-30 years...thumbing your nose at the propain man...priceless!

Nice stack of cookies there, hope you are burning something bigger than those...


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## chucker (Dec 11, 2014)

I have had my hot blast for three winters now, and find burning good dry to well seasoned oak will heat my living/work space for 8 to 12 solid hours @-10 with an equal wind...... no complaints for free!!


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## blades (Dec 12, 2014)

Hot blast- bottom of uss line- yep about a 4hr useable heat cycle, gobbles wood like a 12" chipper, auto over fire damper-as I refer to it- yep baro on it no help except to make more creosote. That all said it did cut my heating cost by 40% for the one season I used it. Never could trust it due to the auto matic overfire issue ( that dang damper will stick wide open fiddled with I don't know how many times to no avail) I really need to pull it out of basement and sell it or convert it to driving a kiln for my wood to feed my NC30 which heats my place by its self 98% of the season. when I was using it always had a nagging thought that the house woudn't be there when I got back. The real issue is that it is a unit designed to burn coal , wood has a completely different burn sequence - for wood it is better than an open fire place but that ain't saying much.


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## KindredSpiritzz (Dec 12, 2014)

I used my vogelzang furnace for 2 years before i decided i could never keep up with the wood supply to keep it going. A cord every 2 weeks, it just eats it. I ended up buying a wood stove and havent used the furnace since. Stove heats better, burns longer and uses less wood by far. Now i just need to get the furnace back out of the basement somehow and sell it as i don't see me ever using it again. Had i of found this site first i wouldnt of made the mistake of buying it.


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## Cpeder (Dec 12, 2014)

No the cookies were a project of the wife's. Waste of good white oak in my opinion. But happy wife happy life, Hence the thought of changing out the stove for another. House is to cold at 65 she says.... I also like the yukon big jack being I live close to the coal region in pa, so the option is nice. Haven't done much reading on them tho.


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## johnnylabguy (Dec 12, 2014)

I have a hot blast 1557m and I'm right there with you on the short burns. It does heat the house ok but there are many better options out there. A few years back when I was loaded with Osage orange it worked great with other woods mixed in. Then I would get 8 hr burns with coals up to 16 hrs. Ahhh those were the days! The kuuma would be great but I cannot get over the startup cost either yet. Drolets are interesting middle ground cost vs quality too.


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## brenndatomu (Dec 12, 2014)

Cpeder said:


> I also like the yukon big jack being I live close to the coal region in pa, so the option is nice. Haven't done much reading on them tho.


I had A BJ, if you are gonna burn coal, then your HB will do it as well as a BJ. Now, that said, the BJs are built like _tanks_ and Yukon is a great company to deal with, but if you are burning wood, then there are more efficient/cleaner burning wood furnaces out there.


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## laynes69 (Dec 12, 2014)

We had a 1500 hotblast by usstove. It was 20+ years old when I retired and replaced it. There's no doubt it could heat well, but that came at a cost. If I wanted a solid overnight burn on a cold night, I saved rounds 6" to 10" in diameter to stuff the thing to the baffle. Split wood didn't burn too long. I always would load as late as possible to have coals in the morning. Many times I would oversleep or not set an alarm to load and it would be stone cold in the morning. I would try to burn hot, but every other month at times I could remove 1/2 a 5 gallon bucket or more of creosote. I didn't realize how much wood we were burning until we got our new furnace, 8 to 10 cord a year. Also because the furnace would burn out if I tried to get sleep, the LP furnace would be running in the morning to keep the house at 68. So all that wood plus 200 gallons a year in LP. If the stupid door damper would open in the night, I would wake to a nice hot paint smell and a 80 degree house. Did it heat well .....yes, do I miss it...no.


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## Cpeder (Dec 12, 2014)

Well I'm new to this I must say. I've read a lot about over firing with the HB so I'm a bit nervous to put to much wood in. This is the second season for the chimney I built this house a year an a half ago. I personally built the house from a-z. The chimney is 8" 32 feet masonry from the basement up. The baro really helped even out the fire only put it in two nights ago. So really at what point or how much creosote is getting dangerous? I looked in yesterday and have maybe 1/16 of dry fluffy stuff. Assuming any is not good. Again I am probably way overly concerned just trying to build the confidence in burning all night or trying to. Have roughly 30 cord in logs stacked ready to cut and split so of course I want to use my "free" fuel.


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## laynes69 (Dec 12, 2014)

Dry fluffy stuff is okay, hard glaze is not. Just keep an eye on things. If it exceeds 1/4", I would sweep. Burning good hot fires will keep things orderly in the chimney.


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## Aaron Frasher (Dec 12, 2014)

I have had a hotblast for 6 years. If you burn coal in it you had better plain on buying new shaker grates for it. i burnt 2 sets out of mine. I have also had to replace the whole back of mine. you might also want to build a bigger wood shed. LOL I burnt 9 truck loads of wood in mine last year. If I had it to do over I would have never bought it & would not recommend them to anybody just my 2 cents.


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## Cpeder (Dec 12, 2014)

I've seen the drolet tundra mentioned a bit. Anyone have info on them? Complaints, success, quality vs cost? I do not want to make the same mistake twice!!


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## brenndatomu (Dec 13, 2014)

Tundra on its worst day still about 100% better than a HB on its best day! (IMO, I don't have one)


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## aokpops (Dec 13, 2014)

I never like the twin blower .


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## stihly dan (Dec 13, 2014)

brenndatomu said:


> Tundra on its worst day still about 100% better than a HB on its best day! (IMO, I don't have one)



What he said, but the tundra has lots of issues too. With wood you get what you pay for.


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## flotek (Dec 13, 2014)

To answer the original question The ussc hotblast is the woodcutters best friend ! It keeps him employed and offers job security lol ..Other than a few little things ( added strips of 6$ high temp foil tape around the opening by the blower and I added a 15$ adjustable snap switch ) on my drolet tundra I haven't had a issue with mine and glad I switched . I never play Boy Scout anymore ,there is always coals in my firebox! Heats great ..8-10 hour burns are child's play .. Seems to Run forever on an arm load of wood . I'd bet Your wood use would be literally half and it's only 1700 bucks that's only like 400 more than a hotblast . A Kumma sounds like a great high tech furnace as well but be prepared to get your wallet out . Personally I'd say If you wanted a more refined polished unit compared to the tundra but with same basic design ,you could get a caddy they are around 2800 . Keep in mind all of these newer high tech furnaces require well seasoned dry wood to operate correctly.


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## CWME (Dec 13, 2014)

What issues have you found with the Drolet Stihly Dan? Not asking as a challenge, just interested in your findings so I can correct them on mine. 

I went from a Englander furnace to a NC30 which did a great job, just not big enough for our needs in the dead of winter. So I got my drolet this year. Wood consumption is way down and steady house temps are the norm for us.


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## newyorker (Dec 13, 2014)

I almost bought a hb at tsc they had them on clearance I went home and Google it and I started to read forums so glad 6 months later decided on caddy couldn't b happier


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## Cpeder (Dec 13, 2014)

Just got back from my local ace hardware witch has it own fireplace and stove are inside. The sales man can pretty much get me anything. The whole fire kind line up, the drolet ( witch he said to stay away from) and the caddy. A caddy dropped off in my drive way with the blow option for 3300. Max caddy for 4100. My house is very tight well insulated 2500sqft. Would the caddy do the trick or do u I need max caddy?


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## laynes69 (Dec 13, 2014)

I have a 2500 sqft mid 19th century victorian that's well insulated but is drafty in many places and our Caddy heats just fine. The Max Caddy would be too much. What's wrong with drolet? There's many satisfied customers out there.


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## Cpeder (Dec 13, 2014)

I kind of got the impression he was trying to sell me the more expensive stove for commission reasons. My only concern is witch stove will adapt to my current duct work. I spent a decent bit of money doing the duct work to the hot blast. Really don't want to Change to much. Hard to see but my return air duct runs along the back wall.


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## laynes69 (Dec 13, 2014)

The Caddy has a plenum opening, unlike the 2-8" ducts on the hotblast. In all honesty, the tundra would plug right into that install. You will have the benefits of secondary combustion, longer burn times and a much easier install. Also the Tundra just like the Caddy can be controlled via thermostat. This allows the furnace to cycle the coalbed throughout the night to keep the home warm. Here is one in action.


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## Cpeder (Dec 13, 2014)

Well I'm very interested now. I guess either way I'll be cutting my 25" splits the splitting in half. I'll have to sell half of my 30 cords with burn times that long..


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## Cpeder (Dec 13, 2014)

So the tundra has a forced draft blower? Maybe I'm a bit confused from all the units I'm looking at


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## brenndatomu (Dec 13, 2014)

I'd say the Drolet would adapt up to the current setup pretty easily but the caddy wouldn't be terrible either. I agree with Laynes, plenty of satisfied Tundra customers out there. They make a quality product and take care of their customers. They had a minor hiccup with them the first year out, but they took care of things post haste. I think you are right, that sales guy was trying to upsell you. Although the Caddy line likely is a bit higher quality product, both the Caddy line and the Tundra/Heatmax line are made by SBI (Stove Builders International (Canada, not chinese crap), which is the parent co of Drolet, and, both lines are based on the same firebox design FYI. I wouldn't have a problem plunking down ~$1500 on the Tundra, which BTW, can be bought at roughly that price at Menards when they have one of their 11% off sales. If I had to bet, I'd bet they have one coming within the next month or so, not sure if you are near a Menards or not though.


Cpeder said:


> So the tundra has a forced draft blower? Maybe I'm a bit confused from all the units I'm looking at


No, both are natural draft


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## laynes69 (Dec 13, 2014)

Yeah, natural draft. One thing to realize, the Tundra or Caddy has a 3.5 cuft firebox. The Hotblast on the otherhand has around a 6.5 cuft firebox. You will see longer burns on close to half the wood, and a more even temperature in your home. Last night we were in the 20's, I loaded our furnace (3/4 load) at 9:30 pm, it was 75° then set back the thermostat at 72 and woke up 10 hours later to a house at 71 degrees.


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## Cpeder (Dec 13, 2014)

Well thank you all for your help. Apparently ace can not get me a tundra they do not offer them any more. Apparently a lot of online retailers are sold out. There are no menards near me. I'm in eastern pa. I see I could have on shipped tho from them. This will most likely be my best bet. Hate to hear the propane unit firing today and the hotblast is getting pulled and sold ASAP. Tundra here we come. Unless they move on thee caddy price. 

Oh forgot to mention ace had a furnace called summers heat. Didn't look very well built from what i saw. The tried to sell it to me for 1100 tho


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## brenndatomu (Dec 13, 2014)

Yeah, it sounds like a lot of the stove manufacturers are behind right now, but I bet if you order a tundra now you'd still have it in a few weeks. It seems to me somebody here just did that recently. FWIW, someone else here was able to buy a Caddy through the local HVAC supply house as a "business" for sub $2k.
Keep us up to date on what you do then!


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## newyorker (Dec 13, 2014)

it was me it ended up being $2300 with blower fan limit and tax


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## newyorker (Dec 13, 2014)

before i bought the caddy i was going to get a tundra from menards i called them they said they would ship and gave me a quote it was kinda high so my company goes that way i was going to have them pick it up if you have a carrier pick it up you dont have to pay tax out of state their are so many sites to join where they give you the best price from many carriers


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## flotek (Dec 13, 2014)

Northern tool has them ( tundra)for 1699 now there will likely be 100$ in shipping but you won't pay tax. I'd bet The guy at ace has never even seen a tundra in his life . His job is to sell you the most expensive unit he can because it will increase his bottom line for Christmas funds


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## Cpeder (Dec 14, 2014)

Cannot find them on northern tool for the life of me. Only place I can find is menards. Kind of scares me they're so hard to find. Everyone I called today says the stopped selling them cause drolet was hard to work with.


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## 3fordasho (Dec 14, 2014)

Menards got mine in 1 week. It's kept the propane furnace off for the last week and that's only loading once a day because I'm not moved in yet.
I've got 3400 ft2 that's going to be a challenge for it to heat but I've also got a free standing stove installed in the fireplace room. So far no regrets on the tundra and it was the only add on furnace that I could get in a short timeframe 
(besides a hot blast or daka or other forest eater). Really have not it had long enough to give a complete review. I am right in the middle of Menards country so that made it easy to get from them.






Cpeder said:


> Cannot find them on northern tool for the life of me. Only place I can find is menards. Kind of scares me they're so hard to find. Everyone I called today says the stopped selling them cause drolet was hard to work with.


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## brenndatomu (Dec 14, 2014)

Cpeder said:


> Cannot find them on northern tool for the life of me. Only place I can find is menards. Kind of scares me they're so hard to find. Everyone I called today says the stopped selling them cause drolet was hard to work with.


Yeah, NT site says "no longer available" right now. I noticed the same thing a few weeks back on NT and Menards, but then a few days later they were back, on both sites. I think when SBI goes on backorder with stuff, then the non-stocking vendors sites say "not available"...my best guess. (although it is curious that NT shows NLA but Menards says available...)
Hard to find means...popular. If Drolet is hard to work with, then it is on the vendor side of things...I dunno 'bout that. What I do know is I can't recall anybody having anything bad to say about their customer service, well, I think there was one guy a while back when they had problems with the first year Tundras, but he also seemed like one of those be-autch-if-he-was-hung-with-a-new-rope types. And, as I recall, even he had to admit that in the end they took care of him.


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## Cpeder (Dec 14, 2014)

Whelp I broke down and bought the tundra just a bit ago. Should have it before Friday to my surprise. I cleaned my chimney today after only a month of burning with the hotblast pos, and that made my mind up then and there. Way to much creosote even tho I burn as hot as I could. Hopefully this time next week I won't be hearing my propane unit fire and I'll be enjoying burning with a little more ease and confidence. Thanks for all the help!!


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## newyorker (Dec 14, 2014)

good deal


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## Cpeder (Dec 15, 2014)

Now with the new tundra in transit on its way I've read that I need a liner. My chimney is 32" exterior masonry with 8x8 flue. I had had way to much draft. Even the baro set as low as possible stays open durning a normal burn in hot blast. So won't a a 6 inch liner give me more draft?


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## brenndatomu (Dec 15, 2014)

Cpeder said:


> So won't a a 6 inch liner give me more draft?


Well, yes, kinda. The Tundra wastes _a lot less_ heat up the flue, so that 8x8 will cool off and not pull a good draft after the Tundra intake damper closes for a while. 
A round 6"liner has an area of ~27 sq. in. vs the ~48" of the 8x8 so the velocity of the flue gasses will be much higher with the 6". That keeps the temp in the chimney up, and therefore the draft. If you have the room to pull it off, insulation on that liner is highly recommended on an exterior chimney. Even if you can only make the 1/4" insulation fit, that will help a lot.


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## iowa (Dec 16, 2014)

3000+ sq foot new home. Kuuma Vaporfire 100. Love it! Wouldn't go any other way. Load at 6am before work. Load @9pm before bed. I only put a partial load in on really cold days (single digits) when I get home from work @5.


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## johnnylabguy (Dec 16, 2014)

This thread has me worked up enough that I'm thinking about an upgrade to a tundra! I have a few things holding me back. One of them is that I dump one of my hot blasts 8" heat ducts straight through a wall into the basement. The other duct is ran into the plenum. I wonder how that would work with the tundra and its thermostat?
Another is We might move to another house in a year or two. Or build a pole barn which I would heat both with an OWB. I'd have one of those kuumas if I knew I were sticking around with an indoor furnace though, Iowa! Nice!


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## Cpeder (Dec 16, 2014)

Take it with. If i move I plan on taking the stove and liner.


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## johnnylabguy (Dec 16, 2014)

Thought about that. If I move, it's going to be somewhere with a bigger shop than where I'm at now. So I think I'd just get an OWB. But the tundra is reasonable enough price that it could stay as a selling feature/loss at my current place too. 

Another hurdle I have to get over is something my insurance agent said this past fall about me being "grandfathered in" with my current woodfurnace because I've had it awhile but I'm too far from a fire dept by the new regulations. . I could change agents but he's an old friend and I'd like to support his small town agency if possible. I guess I just need to find out if the tundra would work for me first.


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## johnnylabguy (Dec 16, 2014)

Oh and take plenty of pics of your install! Good luck and Good thread!


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## Cpeder (Dec 16, 2014)

Will do!! Btw ordered from menards Sunday night stove will be delivered tomorrow her in eastern pa. I'm beyond impressed with the fast delivery. Only if my liner was here..


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## laynes69 (Dec 16, 2014)

A neighbor was telling me he recently purchased a woodburner for his basement. I said oh yeah and he said it's one of those furnace's from tractor supply. He's had it for a couple weeks or so now and said he has to wake up early or the fire is out in the morning, and he usually has to restart the furnace when he gets home after work. A new custom home, and it's a shame he choose a hotblast. I was telling him about our furnace, and the Tundra which sparked curiosity. I have a feeling he will be switching.


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## brenndatomu (Dec 16, 2014)

You sure see a lot of those hotblast type furnaces for sale on CL. If a guy bought a semi load of Tundras and parked out in the TSC parking lot...maybe could save some people a lot of grief, not to mention being in the doghouse with the lil lady for buying a wood gobblin boat anchor!


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## flotek (Dec 16, 2014)

I know I don't miss playing Boy Scout with my old furnace . When I come home the last thing I want to do is house chores and starting a fire from scratch sucks .


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## Jakers (Dec 16, 2014)

i suddenly regret my stove purchasing decision two years ago... it was an upgrade but i now realize how much better there is out there


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## blades (Dec 17, 2014)

EDUCATION IS EXPENSIVE _ ya got the T shirt also


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## Whitespider (Dec 17, 2014)

laynes69 said:


> _*A neighbor was telling me he recently purchased a woodburner... ...he has to wake up early or the fire is out in the morning, and he usually has to restart the furnace when he gets home after work. A new custom home, and it's a shame he choose a hotblast.*_


There has to be more to it than just being a Hotblast...
Just out'a curiosity... did he install it himself, connect return air, install proper back draft dampers and whatnot??

I have a friend that heats an old two-story home with a Hotblast... it's one of the larger models with the sliding damper/baffle in the top of the box like my DAKA. He works at a wood products factory and brings home scrap, a lot of 4x4, that's all he burns in it. He has no problem gettin' 8 hour overnight heating unless it's sub-zero and blowin' outside, and there's always enough coals to get it goin' again. Both he and his wife work days, the house is empty for about 10-11 hours a day. He's admitted there's a few times when it's nasty cold out the house will be in low-60's when he gets home... but he just rakes the coals a bit and tosses in some of that scrap, no playin' boy scout.

And I (or he) sure-in-heck wouldn't call it a...


brenndatomu said:


> _*wood gobblin boat anchor!*_


His fuel consumption ain't all that bad considerin' the size of the house.
*


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## laynes69 (Dec 17, 2014)

Whitespider said:


> There has to be more to it than just being a Hotblast...
> Just out'a curiosity... did he install it himself, connect return air, install proper back draft dampers and whatnot??
> 
> I have a friend that heats an old two-story home with a Hotblast... it's one of the larger models with the sliding damper/baffle in the top of the box like my DAKA. He works at a wood products factory and brings home scrap, a lot of 4x4, that's all he burns in it. He has no problem gettin' 8 hour overnight heating unless it's sub-zero and blowin' outside, and there's always enough coals to get it goin' again. Both he and his wife work days, the house is empty for about 10-11 hours a day. He's admitted there's a few times when it's nasty cold out the house will be in low-60's when he gets home... but he just rakes the coals a bit and tosses in some of that scrap, no playin' boy scout.
> ...



It's just factory. The furnace your talking about is different, no bypass. He probably isn't filling it, but it's hooked up to the chimney, currently dumping air into the basement. It's all manual, no thermostat, nothing else. It's pretty much the same thing I've heard from various owners of the furnace.


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## Whitespider (Dec 17, 2014)

laynes69 said:


> _*It's just factory. ...currently dumping air into the basement.*_


So then  he's not using it as it was _designed_ to be used?
Rather than using it as an add-on furnace to heat his livin' area to 70-73°, he's using it as a big-azz smoke dragon stove w/blower to heat his basement, hopin' the heat will somehow find it's way upstairs?? Probably heating that basement to something like 90° (give-or-take)?? And he wonders why any sort of acceptable performance is lacking??

This ain't a dig on you laynes69... but I just haf'ta point something out.
In another recent thread that's gone 18 pages now, where I've posted about poor performance of an elitist stove, it's been pointed out over and over and over again that it ain't the stove, or the firebox design at fault... *I'm* at fault because *I* wasn't using it as _designed_‼ And here's a thread where a smoke dragon box is performing poorly, yet even though it ain't being used as _designed_... the box is a "*wood gobbling boat anchor*" because of it's _poor design_. (Heck, no one even bothers to ask how it was being used, or what fuel it's being fed, or...)

Can anyone else see the subjective, bias, prejudiced, narrow-mided, double-standard here??  Or am I the only one??
No one has even asked the OP about installation particulars, or operation particulars. His experiences haven't been questioned in the least. Everyone just nods their collective heads... "Yep, that Hotblast is one crappy POS‼" (OK... not everyone) Not a single negative Hotblast comment from other posters has received even the slightest scrutiny... not even a question (except one from me). And post #8 in this thread has been totally ignored as though it didn't exist...


chucker said:


> I have had my hot blast for three winters now, and find burning good dry to well seasoned oak will heat my living/work space for *8 to 12 solid hours* @-10 with an equal wind...... no complaints for free!!


Friggin' unbelievable‼ 
And I'm the guy they ask to "give it a rest" 
*


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## Whitespider (Dec 17, 2014)

laynes69 said:


> _*It's all manual, no thermostat, nothing else.*_


By-the-way I just got of the phone with my friend Sven (yeah, he's a Swede)... his don't have the sliding damper/baffle. I thought I remembered it did when I helped him move it into his basement a few years ago... I was wrong, it's the wood only Model 1400 w/twin blowers. He said he runs the thermostatic control most of the time on "low" setting, rarely on "medium" setting, and only during extreme cold... ain't none of them "all manual" according to the web site.
*


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## laynes69 (Dec 17, 2014)

I didn't say it won't heat, he has a 300,000 dollar custom home, only a few years old. It heats just fine, it supplements the geothermal system. His complaint was burn time and amount of wood it burns. As mentioned, a common complaint from other owners of those furnaces, me being one of them. I probably could have seen 12 hours, I didn't want a chimney fire. Marathon burns aren't worth my family's safety. I tried to burn clean with our old furnace, only to find a bucket full of creosote.


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## Whitespider (Dec 17, 2014)




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## brenndatomu (Dec 17, 2014)

Whitespider said:


> Everyone just nods their collective heads... "Yep, that Hotblast is one crappy POS‼"


It's kinda like when you work at the Ford garage and someone comes in and says "I think my Escort blew a head gasket", you just write it up because, well, because been there done that, plenty of times. But if someone comes in and says my F250 with a 460 blew a head gasket you will be like "wait, what?!" Either one could be because of something the customer did wrong, but some of the Escorts just had a reputation...the HotBlast has a LOOOONG standing reputation!
I'm bettin that you'll be the only one here spidey, that is surprised when Cpedars new EPA style furnace does a fantastic job for him. I'm not sayin a Woodblast...er, I mean a Hotblast can't ever work, just that it is the exception rather than the rule when people _are_ happy with 'em.

Heck, the name says it all, they get hot, blast through the load of wood, then you get to do it all over again in a couple hours.


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## Jakers (Dec 17, 2014)

but they do heat pretty well. i have mine in a 40x60 shop situation with 4ft poured uninsulated concrete walls and a 13ft ceiling. it does heat the place to around 60 most days as long as its not -20 and a 30 mph NW wind. i am not fond of feeding the beast half a cord every week but its a trade off for cheap heat and a warm place to work. if i had it to do over i still would have bought it out of necessity. but more efficiency would be nicer


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## Whitespider (Dec 17, 2014)

brenndatomu said:


> _*It's kinda like when you work at the Ford garage and someone comes in and says "I think my Escort blew a head gasket", you just write it up because...*_


I was a parts and service manager at our Ford dealership for over 20 years... and I never once, "just wrote it up". No different than the nurse who checks you in at the doctors office, I would ask them why they believed so and what the symptoms were. I would note the symptoms... and no different than a doctor, I'd fire any technician who started pulling the head off without doing diagnosis first.

And, by-the-way, it was the 3.8 V6 that had a more common head gasket problem.
The escort would break the timing belt... and before the non-interference engines, bend valves possibly cracking heads.
*


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## brenndatomu (Dec 17, 2014)

Whitespider said:


> I was a parts and service manager at our Ford dealership for over 20 years... and I never once, "just wrote it up". No different than the nurse who checks you in at the doctors office, I would ask them why they
> believed so and what the symptoms were. I would note the symptoms... and no different than a doctor, I'd fire any technician who started pulling the head off without doing diagnosis first.


Yeah yeah, I know, I have been a wrench for many moons and have done many many "interviews" with customers. I was just makin a point.



Whitespider said:


> And, by-the-way, it was the 3.8 V6 that had a more common head gasket problem.
> The escort would break the timing belt... and before the non-interference engines, bend valves possibly cracking heads.


Ahyup, you right...brain fart


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## Whitespider (Dec 17, 2014)

brenndatomu said:


> _*I was just makin a point.*_


Admittedly, it weren't a bad point neither.
Brain farts are fully allowed  But it's still fun to call a fella' out on 'em 
B'sides, it allowed me to pull focus away from your point
*


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## Whitespider (Dec 17, 2014)

Just out'a curiosity brenndatomu, and nothin' judgmental (I ain't an elitist), do you do your wrenchin' at a franchise, independent, or your own business (which could be either franchise or independent)??
I'm just askin' 'cause the "car" business (especially service) was becomin' a royal PITA when we got out.


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## newyorker (Dec 17, 2014)

remember the v6 4.2 97-98 f150 100k on the dot needed a new head gasket


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## Whitespider (Dec 17, 2014)

And the early Triton engines blew spark plugs clean out'a the head... LOL‼
*


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## flotek (Dec 17, 2014)

My dad has a hotblast . After seeing it run for years i can say It is a real piece of crap *not because it doesn't heat the place *but the amount of wood required to do so is absurd and yes his is setup correctly and hooked up as it's designed to do . He puts over 7 cubic feet of wood in it and gets around 5 hour burns . If he chokes it down he might get a couple more hrs but it's going to make a lot of creosote and smoke up the place . To me That is completely inefficient and worthless by modern standards. I can get 10 hrs on 3.5 cft firebox ( and do it by burning cleanly ) he gets 5 hours on a 7 cft firebox . ...No brainer


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## chucker (Dec 17, 2014)

I forgot to mention also that I use a 6" damper in the flue pipe to help adjust the heat escaping up the stack! before the use of the damper I would get an average burn time of 6 hours at best.... I still cant complain when it was free an I have a lot of crooks and knotty pieces to burn from processing firewood.


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## Whitespider (Dec 17, 2014)

chucker said:


> _*I have had my hot blast for three winters now... will heat my living/work space for 8 to 12 solid hours @-10 with an equal wind...
> I forgot to mention also that I use a 6" damper in the flue pipe to help adjust the heat escaping up the stack! before the use of the damper I would get an average burn time of 6 hours at best.*_


Take note of this y'all...
Obviously, the art of using a flue damper to keep all the heat from running out the flue... has been forgotten by many.


flotek said:


> _*...he gets 5 hours on a 7 cft firebox.*_


Five hours on 7³/ft?? Seriously?? He fills it with full length firewood... that's 27 inches long, correct?? He cuts his firewood to 27 inches??
Well, my DAKA with its 5.3³/ft firebox gets loaded with 16 inch firewood... even if I did load it to the top (I don't... well, rarely) that's only 3.4³/ft utilized, and it runs way, way, longer than 5 hours on something way less than loaded to the top. But I do have a flue damper installed... and I know how to set it. Sounds like the problem... 5 hours on 7³/ft(?)... is operator error (where have I heard that before?), not the box itself.

Too damn funny 
*


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## Whitespider (Dec 17, 2014)

Oh yeah... creosote is not an issue with my furnace... nor is it with my friend Sven's Hotblast.
That would also be attributed to operator error.

So... chucker... is creosote an issue with your Hotblast??
*


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## brenndatomu (Dec 17, 2014)

Whitespider said:


> Just out'a curiosity brenndatomu, and nothin' judgmental (I ain't an elitist), do you do your wrenchin' at a franchise, independent, or your own business (which could be either franchise or independent)??
> I'm just askin' 'cause the "car" business (especially service) was becomin' a royal PITA when we got out.


Well, at different times, pretty much all the above, and I agree, PITA. But it depends on which job we're talking about if the PITA was more from customers or management, either way, yup, I got out too. I am maintenance for the local utility for 'bout 8 yrs now


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## Whitespider (Dec 17, 2014)

brenndatomu said:


> _*I got out too. I am maintenance for the local utility for 'bout 8 yrs now*_


Thumbs-up‼
*


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## newyorker (Dec 17, 2014)

gotta love a good pension


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## chucker (Dec 17, 2014)

Whitespider said:


> Oh yeah... creosote is not an issue with my furnace... nor is it with my Sven's Hotblast.
> That would also be attributed to operator error.
> 
> So... chucker... is creosote an issue with your Hotblast??
> *


not a bit! using good dry wood with plenty of free air flow it burns nice and dry ! a flue damper make all the difference in the world for a clean burn!! burning at a temp of 300/400 degs. makes for a warm feeling through out the house (1400 sq. ft.)


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## Whitespider (Dec 17, 2014)

Yep... throughout the house... all the house‼
LMFAO‼


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## cantoo (Dec 17, 2014)

I have an owb now but I had a Hotblast for years. Loved it and was very very happy with it, even wished I had it long before I did. I've talked to 4 people who have bought one after seeing mine. They've done the same "refinements" I did to mine and are happy with theirs. Sure they might use more wood but still much cheaper than oil or propane for them. All houses are large and used lots of either oil, electricity or propane to heat to what the owners wanted. And they are far cheaper than a new furnace install especially if you already have duct heating. My wife could cook us out of the house if she wanted to and we easily had 12 hour "productive" burns. We seldom had to restart a fire from scratch.


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## brenndatomu (Dec 17, 2014)

Whitespider said:


> Take note of this y'all...
> Obviously, the art of using a flue damper to keep all the heat from running out the flue... has been forgotten by many.


I have been kicking around putting a key damper on my sisters flue for their Yukon Big Jack. It has a baro on it now, but I think capping the baro off and using a manual damper may still maintain a nice long burn, (it does that OK now) but help clean up the chimney since the cool air from the baro will be eliminated. That, and convincing them to get further ahead on their wood supply so they have dryer wood...I somehow have become the family chimney sweep...grumblegrumblegrumble



newyorker said:


> gotta love a good pension


Yup! OPERS isn't quite as good as it was when I started back in '06, but I'm not complaining. In the end you can only rely on yourself to be ready for retirement. Wood heat is helping us pad the nest egg a bit...

Boy did this thread take a hard left from the OP...let's see...right about...post #56.  I think sumbuddy is stirrin the pot. Ole guy I used to work with used to say "If ya don't stir the pot, it'll burn" 

Anyways, get that new Tundra yet Cpedar?


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## brenndatomu (Dec 17, 2014)

cantoo said:


> They've done the same "refinements" I did to mine


Care to elaborate?


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## chucker (Dec 17, 2014)

cantoo said:


> I have an owb now but I had a Hotblast for years. Loved it and was very very happy with it, even wished I had it long before I did. I've talked to 4 people who have bought one after seeing mine. They've done the same "refinements" I did to mine and are happy with theirs. Sure they might use more wood but still much cheaper than oil or propane for them. All houses are large and used lots of either oil, electricity or propane to heat to what the owners wanted. And they are far cheaper than a new furnace install especially if you already have duct heating. My wife could cook us out of the house if she wanted to and we easily had 12 hour "productive" burns. We seldom had to restart a fire from scratch.


very true! some people just expect too much for nothing!


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## cantoo (Dec 17, 2014)

The price point is the biggest plus for the Hotblast.
I installed a new stainless chimney that ran straight up from the Hotblast instead of going horizontal for 30' 1st then up 26'. I can cut out the air completely and not have creosote problems. And I never cleaned my chimney other than the cap.
Grind the tits off the damper spinner and use it.
Don't use that auto damper/ whatever thing it is on the door.
Install a manual damper on your chimney pipe and use it.
Load wood into the Hotblast for the heat demand you are putting on it. Don't load it to the top with dense hardwood blocks if you want fast heat, I used construction spruce for that. Leave the dense wood for overnight or long day burns.
Get used to opening a window if you have to.
And buy a sweather you pansy.  A Hotblast will not give you a 75* house 12 hours after you put wood in it and walk away, of course most stoves, fireplaces won't do that either. Did you expect more for $1200?
Look at your house for most return on your investment and invest some of your saved money in making your house more efficient. New windows, doors, upgrading insulation, air sealing etc.


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## Whitespider (Dec 17, 2014)

cantoo said:


> _*Load wood into the Hotblast for the heat demand you are putting on it.*_


Lovin' it‼
As I've said in multiple other threads... it ain't so much about the "setting" as it is about the "loading".
*


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## newyorker (Dec 17, 2014)

a almost bought one they looked fine for me i just thought the epa furnace was appealing to me


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## Jakers (Dec 17, 2014)

brenndatomu said:


> I have been kicking around putting a key damper on my sisters flue for their Yukon Big Jack. It has a baro on it now, but I think capping the baro off and using a manual damper may still maintain a nice long burn, (it does that OK now) but help clean up the chimney since the cool air from the baro will be eliminated. That, and convincing them to get further ahead on their wood supply so they have dryer wood...I somehow have become the family chimney sweep...grumblegrumblegrumble


the manual actually says to install both in the chimney. the baro is supposed to go above the key in the pipe. the idea is that if you have a chimney fire you can still kill the heat goin into the pipe and just let the cold air in minimizing damage i believe. at any rate, you could have both


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## Aaron Frasher (Dec 18, 2014)

I put a key damper in mine. It helps out some.
Looked at the Drolet Tundras!!!!!!
I can definitely see one in my future!!!!!!!


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## flotek (Dec 18, 2014)

Whitespider said:


> Take note of this y'all...
> Obviously, the art of using a flue damper to keep all the heat from running out the flue... has been forgotten by many.
> 
> Five hours on 7³/ft?? Seriously?? He fills it with full length firewood... that's 27 inches long, correct?? He cuts his firewood to 27 inches??
> ...



Yes that's true . Reread what I typed ...Notice I said he could get a couple more if he choked it down but it would be a real dirty burner . It's not operator error it's an inefficient furnace . Also You don't have a hotblast unit so your direct comparison of firebox dimension is not that simple . You were the same guy last year complaining of how much wood your amazing daka was going through to keep up in the cold . The point is that the volume of wood doesn't have the burn time the newer * smaller* units do


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## Whitespider (Dec 18, 2014)

flotek said:


> _*The point is that the volume of wood doesn't have the burn time the newer * smaller* units do*_



No... the point is...
When I (and a few others) can't get more than a couple-few hours heat out of an elitist firebox, I'm (we're) told over and over that I'm (we're) to blame, not the box (or sometimes the box must be broken). Then it's pointed out to me (us) that not everyone experiences what I (we) do, which, according to the choir, further indicate the problem is operator error. When I _fully concede_ that others are having good experiences and try to make the case that maybe the elitist firebox ain't the best choice for all applications, I'm scoffed at and ridiculed.
But...
When you (or your dad) can't get more than a couple-few hours heat out of a smoke dragon firebox burning 7³/ft(?), you claim it's because of a poor box design. Even when it's pointed out to you that not every Hotblast user experiences what you do, you scoff at that also. According to the same choir, it's the box this time... not operator error (or even a broke box). It has to be the box design... what else could it _possibly_ be?? You even focus on my comparison of box sizes, pointing out that it's meaningless because it ain't a Hotblast... while totally ignoring the two Hotblast users posting of 12 hour clean burns (and not necessarily with _full_ 7³/ft boxes either).

It's OK for the choir to claim operator error if I (we) don't get the same results as they do... and any defense is scoffed at and ridiculed.
But if the argument turns the other way, it's taboo to claim the same... the claim is even scoffed at and ridiculed.

The point is...
The preconceived, prejudicial, ironic, double-standard sung by the choir... their blind inability to see it... and stubborn refusal to concede sour owl crap outside their belief in the magic.
The point is...
The flip-flopping attitude and reasoning of the choir depending on the turn of the argument.
The point is...
Why the term "elitist" stove (or firebox) just flat fits‼
The point is...
Just how beyond laughable the whole damn thing is.
*


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## Cpeder (Dec 19, 2014)

Every house house has a wood stove that was ment to be. I say this because there are so many variables influencing a wood burning unit (geography, house,chimney type, chimney height ect) And the hot blast was just not working out for me.. Call it operator error or stupidity but I'm way more satisfied with the ease of use and efficiency of the tundra. And I like to see a secondary burn like this with a non modified hotblast...


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## Cpeder (Dec 19, 2014)

So now my only concern is with my 8" pipes hooked up I installed a grill thermometer into the one stack. When the blower are off the reach 200!! The heat exchangers are definitely doing their job but I worry about the insulation around the duct work where the pipes enter. Am I overly concerned?


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## brenndatomu (Dec 19, 2014)

Cpeder said:


> Every house house has a wood stove that was ment to be. I say this because there are so many variables influencing a wood burning unit (geography, house,chimney type, chimney height ect) And the hot blast was just not working out for me.. Call it operator error or stupidity but I'm way more satisfied with the ease of use and efficiency of the tundra. And I like to see a secondary burn like this with a non modified hotblast...View attachment 388016
> View attachment 388017


Nice! Dang dude, that was FAST!
As for the temp question in your last post, 200* is a bit on the warm end of the spectrum but should be OK as long as that insulation is meant for "duct work duty" and your ducts have proper clearance from combustibles (mainly the run over to your furnace) many MFGs recommend 6" clearance for the first 6', I dunno 'bout the specs for the Tundra though. Those PVC pipes may be a lil close? 
Maybe you could get one of the adjustble fan switches they are talking about in the last few pages of the big "Tundra" thread http://www.arboristsite.com/community/posts/5098551/


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## Cpeder (Dec 19, 2014)

Haven't measured the temp next tho the PVC witch is the exhaust of the propane unit believe it or not. The temp I took was about 12" up the vent pipe at a closer look it was more like 180. So I guess I really shouldn't be overly concerned. And yes it was fast vie been a man on a mission trying to beat the propane man down. I also don't not have as much draft as I thought so a flue liner is going to be ordered tomorrow. As for insulating the chimney the only thing I could do is vermiculite mix bags witch I will have to wait until summer todo. I have a material handler fork lift with 40' reach but the yard is to wet to be driving on. I will say the lack of draft wasn't helping my hot blast situation but I'm still happy with my choice to pull it out! Hot blast might become my pole building heater when I'm in the shop.


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## laynes69 (Dec 19, 2014)

Have you measured draft? If it falls within recommendation and your performance doesn't suffer, personally I don't know if I would line the chimney. We had to due to a 7×11 liner, it was condensing in our chimney. After lining, our draft increased and our condensation dissappeared. As your finding out, the flue temps will run much lower on your new furnace than the previous. They are a nice looking furnace.


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## johnnylabguy (Dec 19, 2014)

Very nice! Let us know what kind of burn times and heating differences you're experiencing vs. the old unit after you've burned a few days. Meanwhile I'll just keep chucking logs into my wood gobblin' hotblast every 6 hrs. lol.


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## flotek (Dec 19, 2014)

How's it working out so far. If you find your ducting is getting hotter than you like you could always experiment by cranking up the fan speed on the blower by setting it on high


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## Whitespider (Dec 19, 2014)

200° shouldn't be a problem... heck, my furnace would easily hit the 200° limit switch before I adjusted it. If I'm rememberin' correctly the minimum temp rating for any heat duct (even non-metallic) is 250°, and that would include any insulation. Any metal duct will be good for something well over 200°, normally including the insulation. That PVC furnace exhaust ain't in any danger either.

I gotta' say... that's a damn fine lookin' unit.

You must like your gadgets... huh??
A grill thermometer in the heat vent, a flue thermometer on the stack, a barometric damper... what else ya' got??
*


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## Cpeder (Dec 19, 2014)

No I have not measured draft. I will on Tuesday when the manometer gets here, just a hunch I have. And the vent temps are before the blower kicks on so fan speed will not change that. Haha and I guess u could say I like my gadgets.. In the winter time the basement is my go to place so I like to keep an eye on this for the fun of it. I have the basement windows open at the moment trying to get the new paint smell out also trying to see those secondary tubes work their magic again but not having much luck as earlier. Could be wet wood but I doubt it. Maybe lack of air even with the open windows or lack of draft pulling the air. Also the adjustable limit switch is getting ordered the blows turn on and off ever 5 minutes. I would like them to cycle a bit longer. Oh and stack temps are about 250 external high fire and 160 when the damper is closed witch will take getting used too


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## cantoo (Dec 19, 2014)

I'm cheap, when my Hotblast fans came on and off too often I just took it off and put 2 washers under it, problem solved and no repairman or ordered parts needed.


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## brenndatomu (Dec 19, 2014)

You'll only get secondary action the first hour or two of a load depending on what kind of wood you load and how dry it is. Once the wood is done outgassing (and smoking) you'll just have a "regular" fire. The wood should be close to just glowing red charcoal by that point


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## Whitespider (Dec 20, 2014)

Cpeder said:


> _*...the vent temps are before the blower kicks on so fan speed will not change that.*_


Oh... wow... I don't know how those are supposed to work, but that don't seem right to me at all. I would think the circulation blower should come on when air jacket temps are somewhere in the 110°-130° range. When I said my air jacket temps would hit the 200° limit, I was talkin' when the circulation blower running on high speed... the "limit" just shut down the draft induction blower.
*


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## Whitespider (Dec 20, 2014)

Only because something didn't seem right, I just downloaded the manual for your Tundra.
If your grill thermometer is reading air jacket temperature correctly, and it's reaching something near 200° _before_ the blower kicks on, something ain't right. It should come on at 140°, shut off at 120°... and there is, or should be, a 160° limit switch that shuts down the air intake.
This is from page 60...
*
9.3 Fan control*
_The fan is activated when the air jacket temperature of the furnace reaches 140 °F and
stops when it drops below 120 °F. If the air jacket temperature exceeds 160 °F, the air inlet
damper closes and the fan will continues to blow until temperature returns below 120 °F at
which point the air inlet control will open again._

Although I did find a discrepancy... the wiring diagram on page 58 shows a 110° fan control and a 200° limit switch. Meaning the blower should start up when air jacket temps reach 110°, and the air intake should close at 200° (200° actually makes more sense than 160°... to me anyway). Either way, the blower should come on well before 180°-200°.


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## Whitespider (Dec 20, 2014)

Yeah... I know... I keep amending what I'm sayin'... but...
I just went back and reread what you've posted. If you took the temp measurement 12-iinches up in the the 8-inch heat vent pipe, and the blower is set to start at 140° (as stated on page 60), it would be possible for the temperatures to be somewhat higher than those in the actual air jacket below. But even at 180°-200° 12 inches above... that's a difference of 40°-60°, and that still seems like a lot (to me). If the blower is set to start at 110° (as shown in the wiring diagram)... that's a difference of 70°-90°, and that's definitely indicating something ain't right.
*


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## laynes69 (Dec 20, 2014)

The higher temps also occur in the Caddy, must be the location of the sensors, both are located above the large heat exchanger tube. I know there's been a few users that had their sensors replaced from the company. Whitespider is right, temperatures should not be that high, that's quite a difference in temperature.


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## Cpeder (Dec 20, 2014)

Well I figured that problem out! The face of the grill thermometer was rotated counter clockwise. I didn't not no it moved. So let it get to room temp and set it to zero. Now I'm reading 110 roughly and 90 while blowers are on cooling the exchangers.


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## Whitespider (Dec 20, 2014)

Ah-Ha‼
LOL‼
I'm not sayin' any more than that 
After-all, I did have an "issue" with my thermostat a couple weeks back 
*


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## Cpeder (Dec 20, 2014)

I had to laugh once I noticed it moved. Oh well problem solved


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## brenndatomu (Dec 20, 2014)

Whitespider said:


> Ah-Ha‼
> LOL‼
> I'm not sayin' any more than that
> After-all, I did have an "issue" with my thermostat a couple weeks back
> *


Dang gadgets!


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## brenndatomu (Dec 20, 2014)

Whitespider said:


> Ah-Ha‼
> LOL‼
> I'm not sayin' any more than that
> After-all, I did have an "issue" with my thermostat a couple weeks back
> *


Let me guess, it was stuck on readin 70* all the time


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## flotek (Dec 20, 2014)

I believe that Just because you don't see ghost flames after a couple hours doesn't mean the secondaries are not helping . Not all combustion is visible to the eye . I know from dumping old race fuel on cardboard and scrap lumber that You can light methanol and never see so much as a flicker but it will consume the whole thing and burn you badly


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## Cpeder (Dec 20, 2014)

So what kind of stack temps are you guys havin with the caddy? I'm running at 110 with the damper closed and 250 with the damper open. The would is less then 20% moisture.


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## laynes69 (Dec 20, 2014)

I see around the same. With the damper open 250 sounds right, the highest I've seen was close to 300. With it shut down, 125-150.


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## Cpeder (Dec 20, 2014)

No creosote issues with temps that low? The gas has a long way to travel up a 32" exterior chimney and cool.


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## laynes69 (Dec 20, 2014)

Cpeder said:


> No creosote issues with temps that low? The gas has a long way to travel up a 32" exterior chimney and cool.



No, I have a 5.5" insulated liner. I get some creosote towards the top, but it's very little. The problem before the liner was condensation, the flue was too cool and draft was poor.


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## newyorker (Dec 20, 2014)

i see about the same temps i got on the roof to clean the chimney for the first time last week and their was zero creosote im think il just have to clean it once a year the way its looking 15ft 6" stainless inside chimney


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## chucker (Dec 20, 2014)

newyorker said:


> i see about the same temps i got on the roof to clean the chimney for the first time last week and their was zero creosote im think il just have to clean it once a year the way its looking 15ft 6" stainless inside chimney


!!!!!!!!!!! "DONT FOOL YOURSELF" !!!!!!!!!! chimney fires are always starting when the operator is over confident that their good to go and alls safe! check your flue every month and stay alive to see a second 55! !"WEAK UP" ........ BEFORE YOUR DEAD!


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## newyorker (Dec 20, 2014)

chimney fires start because operator error...bottom line


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## Cpeder (Dec 20, 2014)

If end up with a 6 inch liner I will have no room for insulation. But if draft is good I don't see the need for it. I check my flue often sweep as needed. The house and chimney not even two years old yet. Taracota flue with chimney block around ect. Pretty common. I feel most peoples problems with this type of chimney is when the flue has chips or chunks out of it where the creosote deposits then when u sweep it looks flush even tho there's a big chunk still there. Seen this on houses I've renovated.


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## Cpeder (Dec 20, 2014)

Agreed normally is operator error. Correct me if I'm wrong but in makes sence to me The beauty of the caddy tundra or kuuma is the lack of the higher temps it takes to ignite creosote.


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## laynes69 (Dec 20, 2014)

Cpeder said:


> If end up with a 6 inch liner I will have no room for insulation. But if draft is good I don't see the need for it. I check my flue often sweep as needed. The house and chimney not even two years old yet. Taracota flue with chimney block around ect. Pretty common. I feel most peoples problems with this type of chimney is when the flue has chips or chunks out of it where the creosote deposits then when u sweep it looks flush even tho there's a big chunk still there. Seen this on houses I've renovated.



Insulation is required if the structure of the chimney is not up to code. An unlined chimney, a chimney with cracked or damaged flue tiles, etc. Many people line chimney's that are up to code and don't insulate. If you choose to line, just stuff some rock wool around the liner at the top of the chimney to create a dead air space around the liner. Don't forget to sweep well to remove any deposits before lining.


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## brenndatomu (Dec 20, 2014)

laynes69 said:


> Don't forget to sweep well to remove any deposits before lining.



That's the part most people forget/skip


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## UnforsakenGhost (Dec 20, 2014)

chucker said:


> !!!!!!!!!!! "DONT FOOL YOURSELF" !!!!!!!!!! chimney fires are always starting when the operator is over confident that their good to go and alls safe! check your flue every month and stay alive to see a second 55! !"WEAK UP" ........ BEFORE YOUR DEAD!


Chimney fires are awesome, its like a freight train in your living room lol, all serious though I do set one once a week and brush it every 2, I burn a lot of walnut though, 3 years running no problems here


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## Cpeder (Dec 21, 2014)

Well here's 
update on the tundra. It's been one week since I order the tundra and I'm very impressed for the money. Kicking my self for not doing the research and making the mistake on the hot blast last year. The hot blast was not doing what I wanted it to do. It would heat me out of the house I will say that but at the cost of a lot of wood as we all know. So last night after cutting some of my split wood down from 24" and re splitting so it fit into the tundra i installed a thermostat. Set it to a nice 72 for the misses and set the "sleep time at 10:00 to 68 so it would close the damper. Put five or six wrist size maybe slightly larger splits on. Woke a bit ago to a little be of hot coals enough to re start. Has was at 67. (Last night was 20 out) Very thrilled with this. As I learn what
amount and size splits to use at night this will probably get a lot better. Thank you all for the help and guidance on my change over!!!


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## brenndatomu (Dec 21, 2014)

Cpeder said:


> Well here's View attachment 388401
> update on the tundra. It's been one week since I order the tundra and I'm very impressed for the money. Kicking my self for not doing the research and making the mistake on the hot blast last year. The hot blast was not doing what I wanted it to do. It would heat me out of the house I will say that but at the cost of a lot of wood as we all know. So last night after cutting some of my split wood down from 24" and re splitting so it fit into the tundra i installed a thermostat. Set it to a nice 72 for the misses and set the "sleep time at 10:00 to 68 so it would close the damper. Put five or six wrist size maybe slightly larger splits on. Woke a bit ago to a little be of hot coals enough to re start. Has was at 67. (Last night was 20 out) Very thrilled with this. As I learn what
> amount and size splits to use at night this will probably get a lot better. Thank you all for the help and guidance on my change over!!!


Better post your buddys pic on the firewood dog thread...


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## newyorker (Dec 21, 2014)

Looks like a good spot to have a few beers


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## Cpeder (Dec 21, 2014)

Pretty sure I have the same problem you had laynes. Left home for about four hours and spotted this under the exhaust outlet of the stove..


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## laynes69 (Dec 21, 2014)

Yep! Looks like a liner is in order. When we had it, I was removing over a gallon of liquid a day.


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## Cpeder (Dec 21, 2014)

Now Im hoping with a 8x8 chimney I can fit 6" liner and 1/2 insulation. The chimney is straight. Got a quote for $1100. Figured I'd do it myself tho to save a few bucks. Now my heat exchangers are lined with the same glassy stuff. Looks almost like glaze from wet wood. Now is this from the condensation?


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## laynes69 (Dec 21, 2014)

Your heat exchanger shouldn't look like that. After loading, you should let the furnace come up to temp. There's also the possibility of poor draft (likely) and wood that's not quite seasoned. If your wood isn't seasoned, it will compound the problem with condensation.


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## Cpeder (Dec 21, 2014)

Hard to figure out what the ( up to temp) is. Being that my top stack temp is 250 max. I know you all say this is normal for my type of stove tho. Hoping I can burn out that little bit of glaze in the exchangers. Only has been a few days with the new stove but it's apparent I have must have a draft problem as you said. Also the wood is fully glowing red all the way before I shut the damper.


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## laynes69 (Dec 21, 2014)

When the damper closes, do the flames stay active? The heat exchanger is the coolest part of the system, so having some stuff there is normal. It doesn't mean the entire system looks that way.


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## Cpeder (Dec 21, 2014)

The flames slow down and the secondary tubes light up and the lames sort of roll around towards the glass. Then about 5 to 10 minutes later the ghost flames ( white and blue) as I call em start coming off the wood here and there and all of a sudden the secondary's light up for a minute. So on and so on.


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## brenndatomu (Dec 21, 2014)

Cpeder said:


> Now Im hoping with a 8x8 chimney I can fit 6" liner and 1/2 insulation


If not you could probably get away with a 5.5 " liner with 1/2" insulation...


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## laynes69 (Dec 21, 2014)

Sounds like draft. How tall is your chimney? If your chimney is not drafting right, the baro is only hurting things. Did you get the draft measured?


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## Cpeder (Dec 22, 2014)

Manometer will be in my mail box tomorrow so i will have more answers then. Chimney is 35' exterior masonry. I kept some aluminum foil over the baro to close it off for max draft but this had no change in what I was seeing. The manometer will let me know a lot tomorrow night. Draft / static pressure. Now as for the draft the next few days will be almost 50 with rain in time Christmas I won't get a 32 night until Christmas night. I know the stove has to be operating temp before checking but should I wait for more cooler weather to see what's going on?


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## laynes69 (Dec 22, 2014)

You can check it anytime, but the colder the more draft. I didn't realize your chimney was so tall, that's why it's condensing. Depending on the liner, a flex liner has a larger O.D than its listed diameter. If I was you, I would do what I did and go with a 5.5" liner. If your not seeing a difference with the baro capped, your draft isn't up to par. If I do that, the furnace turns into a forge.


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## Cpeder (Dec 22, 2014)

Just dropped a tape measure down the flue 37 feet. Clay measures 7x7 inside diameter. I'm burning right now but I'm going to burn hot and let it go out before I turn in. What's the best liner out there. Really just wanna do this once and done while the Mrs is giving me the green light. She likes the warmth of the wood fire so I have that going for me


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## laynes69 (Dec 22, 2014)

A 7x7 flue won't take a flex liner. A rigid liner would be the only option, and if you have any excess mortar in the chimney, the liner may hang up. Thats a tall chimney to keep warm. Have you tried burning the furnace without the barometric damper? The draft will spike when open but once it closes will drop. If your getting a manometer, test draft without the barometric damper. I would contact the manufacturer and ask for suggestions.


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## flotek (Dec 22, 2014)

The black goop is from too much moisture in the wood . Tundras hate semi seasoned wood ,the drier the better . I don't doubt the draft could be more ideal but I'd guess it's more to do with your fuel . That liquid had to originate in the wood to begin with it or it wouldn't be there . After a big reload Let the door be cracked before you close it up and it'll help. If your wood is really seasoned and dry and you pack it up you can achieve incredible burn times if you play your cards right


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## brenndatomu (Dec 22, 2014)

Cpeder said:


> What's the best liner out there


There are tons of good ones out there, pretty much take your pick. Just don't waste your money on a double wall liner (2 ply) I did, wouldn't do it again, single wall is fine.
I have heard of people with flues sized like yours getting an ovalized liner to fit. Don't discount the possibility of a 5.5" liner with 1/4" insulation.
Just find a couple feet of pipe (PVC cutoff?) the correct OD to drop down the flue to check that whatever you are looking at will actually drop down through without hanging up on a mortar joint. Some use a coffee can, but that will still zigzag it's way through obstacles that will stop a continuous piece of pipe.


flotek said:


> The black goop is from too much moisture in the wood .


Likely true...but a properly sized/insulated liner will still help with the goop issue, a liner and truly dry wood is the cure all...


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## blades (Dec 23, 2014)

7x7 inside flue going to need to bust out clay liners to get any insulated stainless down there, 5" round single wall will fit with the clay tiles in place then pour insulation in around it ( vermiculite ). I do not think a 5" double wall will fit with out busting out the clay liner. I had bust out the clay liners just to get a 6" single wall flex, stainless down and then pour insulation around it- it works but I am a bit leary of it in conjunction with the hotblast auto overfire unit.


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## Cpeder (Dec 25, 2014)

Merry Christmas to all! Here's the final set up other then installing thermostat that will cycle the damper ever 20 minutes or so when the house it at temp. Trying to keep the fire a bit hotter in hopes burn up the coal bed a little more. I have more the. Enough coals I would just like to burn them a bit more without opening the damper by the switch on days that are more mild. The pice of duct tube isn't. Connected by he way. I switch front front to back to side to side witch helps keep the center main heat exchanger hotter and flue temps up slightly.


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## newyorker (Dec 25, 2014)

looks good hows your draft


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## Cpeder (Dec 25, 2014)

Damper open draft is about .06 to .07 damper shut I'm about .05


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## Aaron Frasher (Jan 7, 2015)

Cpeder said:


> Merry Christmas to all! Here's the final set up other then installing thermostat that will cycle the damper ever 20 minutes or so when the house it at temp. Trying to keep the fire a bit hotter in hopes burn up the coal bed a little more. I have more the. Enough coals I would just like to burn them a bit more without opening the damper by the switch on days that are more mild. The pice of duct tube isn't. Connected by he way. I switch front front to back to side to side witch helps keep the center main heat exchanger hotter and flue temps up slightly. View attachment 389394


 So how is the Dorlet doing?
looking at them around my area. going to get one by next year. I have had this hotblast for 6-7 years can wait to get rid of it.LOL


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## Cpeder (Jan 7, 2015)

The tundra is great. Seasoned wood is a must as you'll read all over the site about this stove. Also thermostat and adjustable thermo disc makes this unit a dream. I do think the hot blast has its place but that place would be in a garage when ur looking to stay warm while working. Very happy I switched with the cold weather now here.


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