# Porting, You get what you pay for



## fordf150 (Jan 27, 2016)

So i had a saw cross my bench this week and it got me thinking....at what point do you get what you paid for with porting? I am no saw porter even though i have done lots of auto heads back in the day. 

The saw showed up wanting traded off...to be honest, a like new ported saw wanting traded even up for a 6100 raised flags for me.

Step 1:
First step in determining if i would take it on trade involved hooking up and checking run time and fault codes.... 6 codes stored...3 of which are for air leaks, 1 for a faulty throttle function, 1 for a bad module, 1 for loose red wire. No wonder it doesnt run correctly and he wants to trade it off with it only showing 4 hrs.

Step 2:
Owner of said saw gives the history of the saw... and i basically said NO>>>no interest in this at all but why dont you let me tear into it and have a look. Promised to treat him right and do what i can to get him a reliable saw without breaking the bank considering the money he already has invested. 

Step 3:
A test run just to see what the old girl does but first, lets do a pressure and vac test and compression test.

Compression was a miserable 160psi 

Pressure test failed miserably, it required constant pumping to maintain 7psi...In just a couple minutes we found the base gasket/transfer cover leaking. 

Step 4: forget about a test run and just tear the stupid thing down and fix some air leaks. Here is what i found. What do you all think of this. The following is what caught my attention first.


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## fordf150 (Jan 27, 2016)

And the cylinder...some of those marks go all the way to the squish band and will easily catch a finger nail in them...Low compression...culprit found.


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## fordf150 (Jan 27, 2016)

Reason for air leak found....pretty deep grooves left behind from cutting the base


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## procarbine2k1 (Jan 27, 2016)

That makes me sick. I bet I can guess who did it, just by what I've seen here... But I ain't going to.
Good on you Nate for taking care of this guy. Is it a Jred?


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## Chris-PA (Jan 27, 2016)

It does not appear to be ported? It looks like a base and piston cut and little grinding on the lower transfers?

As for the damage, that might have been all due the leak, but it looks more like mechanical damage on the piston - something came through the transfers?


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## David Young (Jan 27, 2016)

Were the transfers even touched? What caused the scratches on the side if its factory transfers. I would have to guess poor ex shape.


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## Chris-PA (Jan 27, 2016)

David Young said:


> Were the transfers even touched? What caused the scratches on the side if its factory transfers. I would have to guess poor ex shape.


It does not look like any of the ports were touched. Probably just some aluminum bits from grinding the lower transfers that were left in the jug, came through the transfers and scratched up the sides.


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## Jacob J. (Jan 27, 2016)

It looks like there's chatter marks inside the cylinder from a grinding tool or bit.


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## fordf150 (Jan 27, 2016)

procarbine2k1 said:


> That makes me sick. I bet I can guess who did it, just by what I've seen here... But I ain't going to.
> Good on you Nate for taking care of this guy. Is it a Jred?


2260, ask all you want. i am not telling who did it. thats up to the owner of the saw and the builder


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## fordf150 (Jan 27, 2016)

back on track...the porting itself. intake is just superficial grinding that stops just shy of the cylinder wall so the port edges are untouched, exhaust port edges are untouched, transfers are untouched


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## procarbine2k1 (Jan 27, 2016)

fordf150 said:


> 2260, ask all you want. i am not telling who did it. thats up to the owner of the saw and the builder



I wouldn't ask who did it, nor would you hear a builders name come out of my mouth. I don't roll like that, but you probably already knew that.


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## Backyard Lumberjack (Jan 27, 2016)

_>What do you all think of this._

good foto essay and pix!

I am wondering about the piston crown?... if the arrow is for positioning that side of piston to the exhaust port when assembling piston onto the the connecting rod... why does the intake side show the exhaust carbon build up? am I missing something?....


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## fordf150 (Jan 27, 2016)

Chris-PA said:


> It does not look like any of the ports were touched. Probably just some aluminum bits from grinding the lower transfers that were left in the jug, came through the transfers and scratched up the sides.





Jacob J. said:


> It looks like there's chatter marks inside the cylinder from a grinding tool or bit.




here is the story on the piston/cylinder damage.

saw was bought new, ported when new.

soon after buying it the crank bearing went out. It was shipped back to the builder and replaced under warranty. owner was told about damage to the P&C but that it cleaned up and would be fine. 
When it came back from the bearing replacement it still didnt run right and got sent back to the builder again. this time it received a new carb and shipped back. still didnt run right so it got set on a shelf with a disgusted owner for a time. The owner finally decided it was time to do something with it and get a useable saw so that is where we find ourselves today. Unfortunately i did not recieve dates or copies of the correspondence with the builder so some of the time frame and details are unconfirmed but the builder acknowledged the bearing and carb replacement to me.


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## cgraham1 (Jan 27, 2016)

So, is this considered 'ported'? Besides cutting the base and popup, there wasn't much porting done on this saw...


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## angelo c (Jan 27, 2016)

fordf150 said:


> here is the story on the piston/cylinder damage.
> 
> saw was bought new, ported when new.
> 
> ...



my concern would be if the "builder" was cognizant of the P/C damage when he reassembled the saw bottom end. maybe the main bearing wiped out the P/C and it was boxed as is....either way, the saw was not run by builder for certain.


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## Chris-PA (Jan 27, 2016)

fordf150 said:


> soon after buying it the crank bearing went out. It was shipped back to the builder and replaced under warranty. owner was told about damage to the P&C but that it cleaned up and would be fine.


Ahh, ok. Maybe that's what came through the transfers.

I see that the purpose of the cylinder and piston cutting was to increase compression, but I don't get what was intended by the other grinding that was done. 

Still, I guess if it had not been damaged it would have run like a saw that had the jug lowered and a popup cut with no porting changes. Longer intake, shorter exhaust and transfers, lots of compression. 

It's silly to treat "porting" as if it was some commodity, interchangeable service.


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## fordf150 (Jan 27, 2016)

cgraham1 said:


> So, is this considered 'ported'? Besides cutting the base and popup, there wasn't much porting done on this saw...


thats my point....at what point do you decide that your getting what you pay for? 

Was this "porting" worth $200-300? The bottom end was warrantied along with the carb...why wasnt this cylinder warrantied right along with it because other than the old saw that has an unabtanium cylinder i would consider this cylinder/piston toast.


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## blsnelling (Jan 27, 2016)

I hope someone didn't charge $300 for a pop-up and re-assembly.


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## Definitive Dave (Jan 27, 2016)

Was the damage somehow caused by the porting?


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## fordf150 (Jan 27, 2016)

Definitive Dave said:


> Was the damage somehow caused by the porting?


nope. crank bearing failure....builder sanded the cylinder and piston to smooth out the damage and reassembled it.


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## RedneckChainsawRepair (Jan 27, 2016)

*Reminds me of 2 ported saws I had across my bench. Fixing for owners that had only been ported for 6 months. Different saws but similar looking type work. *


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## RedneckChainsawRepair (Jan 27, 2016)

*Hmmm I think I might have a pic of the stickers on the saws, shame shame . Stickers 
*


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## 3000 FPS (Jan 27, 2016)

I find it interesting that it is ok for a builder to come on the forums and post all kinds of neat pictures of their work drumming up business but when they do very poor work and they know when it is not good no body wants to mention their name. Sounds like double standard to me.


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## aswan (Jan 27, 2016)

Good point


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## BGE541 (Jan 27, 2016)

fordf150 said:


> here is the story on the piston/cylinder damage.
> 
> saw was bought new, ported when new.
> 
> ...



So if I can break this down...

Saw came from a "Dealer", JRed dealer... who also ports new saws... then returned for bearing work, now runs like hammered $hit. That is not porting, that is abusing someone who thinks *builder* offers a true service.

I don't want to "guess" as that would be unjust but I would bet a $20 on my thoughts


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## Marshy (Jan 27, 2016)

fordf150 said:


> nope. crank bearing failure....builder sanded the cylinder and piston to smooth out the damage and reassembled it.


Aside from the obvious, something isnt adding up... Why would the builder get the bottom end warrantied but not the piston and cylinder? If I was the saw owner I would not have accepted the saw back the first time with a fluff and buffed P/C if the crank was warrantied. 

Maybe the crank wasnt warrantied and the owner was fed a line of BS. Maybe the builder said it was but ate the cost because he was culpable and fluffed and buffed the P/C to save him some money from having to eat that cost too.


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## tree monkey (Jan 27, 2016)

warranty is void the second it is ported


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## Marshy (Jan 27, 2016)

tree monkey said:


> warranty is void the second it is ported


Exactly, so how can the crank be warrantied but not the P/C?


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## big t double (Jan 27, 2016)

that's the point...there was nothing warrantied through the factory. whoever built this saw had to eat the lower end rebuild...he did everything in his power to not eat the top end as well.. my opinion.


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## blsnelling (Jan 27, 2016)

The crank was probably easy to warranty since it could be returned unmodified.

From my viewpoint, there are two totally separate issues here.

First of all, the owner of a saw must accept that the factory warranty is null and void as soon as he has it ported. He's fortunate that he bought it from a dealer that could get the crank warrantied at all. No way though is the factory going to warranty a modified topend. IMHO, the builder did him a favor trying to salvage it, which I would expect. The builder can't be held responsible for topend damage due to a defective crank or bearings.

On the other hand, the really question to me is, what was charged for this "port job". I've caught a lot of flack for doing similar mods and calling it Stage 1. Since no real port work was done, it's worth far less money. If the owner paid $250-$300 for these mods, he got ripped off. The work simply isn't there.


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## Marshy (Jan 27, 2016)

I am unfamiliar with warranty work... does the warrantied parts have to go back to the factory? I thought the shop makes the call if it is warranty work and they do the work but am unaware if the parts go back to the company. That might help clear things up some.


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## dugide (Jan 27, 2016)

don't think the crank was replaced, just bearing.


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## Big_Wood (Jan 27, 2016)

big t double said:


> that's the point...there was nothing warrantied through the factory. whoever built this saw had to eat the lower end rebuild...he did everything in his power to not eat the top end as well.. my opinion.



unless he's a dealer. dealers can pull strings to get things warranted. most dealers won't for modified saws which is why it is evident that the builder is the dealer himself. there was a thread not to long ago about this. this is an easy one to figure where it came from. i'm not about to drop any names though.


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## Macman125 (Jan 27, 2016)

3000 FPS said:


> I find it interesting that it is ok for a builder to come on the forums and post all kinds of neat pictures of their work drumming up business but when they do very poor work and they know when it is not good no body wants to mention their name. Sounds like double standard to me.



I agree, I think the name of the builder should be made public. This is horrid work and people that are thinking of having work done to their saw in the future should be spared the headache of having being ripped off in this manner.


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## Mad Professor (Jan 27, 2016)

Is damage to top of piston (looks "squished" to me) caused by hitting combustion chamber?


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## Marshy (Jan 27, 2016)

Macman125 said:


> I agree, I think the name of the builder should be made public. This is horrid work and people that are thinking of having work done to their saw in the future should be spared the headache of having being ripped off in this manner.


I dont totally disagree with your comment however there are things we just dont know. Its possible that the saw owner knew the level of "porting" and mods that was going to be done on the saw and thought the price he was paying for the service was acceptible. I dont think its fare to pin a name to the saw without allowing the builder to speak up. With that being said, any comments saying that the builder is a dealer is pure conjecture at this point.


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## Big_Wood (Jan 27, 2016)

Marshy said:


> I dont totally disagree with your comment however there are things we just dont know. Its possible that the saw owner knew the level of "porting" and mods that was going to be done on the saw and thought the price he was paying for the service was acceptible. I dont think its fare to pin a name to the saw without allowing the builder to speak up. With that being said, any comments saying that the builder is a dealer is pure conjecture at this point.



this is how this builder does all his 562's. he says it is all that is needed for them to run and i'm not gonna argue with him at all as i've seen his 562's run in video. they will smoke one with the ports all hogged out. fix the air leaks and i bet it runs like a raped ape. the pop up and jug lowering must alter the timing just enough to make them run the way he wants them to run.


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## big t double (Jan 27, 2016)

Marshy said:


> I am unfamiliar with warranty work... does the warrantied parts have to go back to the factory? I thought the shop makes the call if it is warranty work and they do the work but am unaware if the parts go back to the company. That might help clear things up some.


I cant answer to Husqvarna or jonsered...but with stihl, no...not all warrantied parts get called back. its up to the service reps/distributors to call warranty parts back. we are told to hold the parts for x amount of time and after that we can discard them. so if this saw manufacturer is like stihl...it would've been a gamble for the builder/dealer to try and warranty the cylinder through the factory.



westcoaster90 said:


> unless he's a dealer. dealers can pull strings to get things warranted. most dealers won't for modified saws which is why it is evident that the builder is the dealer himself. there was a thread not to long ago about this. this is an easy one to figure where it came from. i'm not about to drop any names though.


true...if the builder is the dealer he could've probably got the lower end covered by the factory warranty... but he wouldn't be able to get the top end warrantied...so I guess that was my point, he would've had to eat the top end...which he obviously didn't want to do and reused the cylinder.

edit: i don't want to delete anything ive wrote because I don't like that... but would rather add here, me saying he obviously didn't want to replace the cylinder was just guessing/conjecture as I don't know what the cylinder looked like when it came in the first time for repair....I apologize for jumping to a conclusion


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## fordf150 (Jan 27, 2016)

these are my 2 questions that this job brings up....


WARRANTY:

what is covered and what isnt with a ported saw? 



this saw had the crank bearings and carb covered in full by "warranty" but the damaged piston and cylinder were "hidden" for a lack of better vocabulary on my part. an uneducated customer listened to an "experienced" builder that it was just a couple scratches that got sanded out and would be fine. In my eyes, on a new saw the P&C need replaced. So if the carb and bearings are covered, why isnt the cylinder also covered since the damage was caused by the bearing failure.
im calling it warranty but i simply dont know if it was the builder eating the cost or working some magic/taking a chance on a factory warranty

Porting value:

for all the porters out there.....

at what point do you change what you charge for porting a saw? I understand some saws require massive amounts of work and some very little but does a cut base and popup really justify $200-300? Is that fair to your customers charging full boat for a job that could be done at home by most guys that have a local machine shop.


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## Chris-PA (Jan 27, 2016)

People always want to assume that the price of something reflects how much it cost to do or to make, but that is almost never the case. The price of something reflects what you can get someone to pay for it. The mods done here may be very effective, I have no idea. 

If they were simple to do but work better than more elaborate mods then which should cost more? Which is worth more? Are you paying for results or effort?

I have no idea if the damage was due to the mods - maybe the leak was an issue. Maybe it was well within what AT could compensate for and made no difference at all. 

If you can drop the coin for a brand new state of the art pro Husqvarna and then pay someone to modify it then clearly you have money you can afford to lose. Even in the echo chamber of saw forums there is no way you could be unaware that you were taking a risk. The stock saw is warranted by Husqvarna, while the modified saw is warranted by some guy with a small shop - at best.


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## Marshy (Jan 27, 2016)

fordf150 said:


> these are my 2 questions that this job brings up....
> 
> 
> WARRANTY:
> ...



Specific to whats in bold... If a guy can cut the base, add a pop-up and blend some of the casting flaws on a saw and make it run as good or possibly better (hypothetically) than the same model saw by another builder that put did port timing/widening, base cutting why shouldnt the first builder be able to charge the same amount as the second builder?? I think its acceptable, its the results that matter.


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## fordf150 (Jan 27, 2016)

Marshy said:


> I am unfamiliar with warranty work... does the warrantied parts have to go back to the factory? I thought the shop makes the call if it is warranty work and they do the work but am unaware if the parts go back to the company. That might help clear things up some.


rarely do parts need to go back. almost always pics need taken of the damaged cylinder...but a damaged cylinder from bearing failure probably would be warrantied without many questions from a reputable dealer or a saw with a bad bottom end and cylinder could have been recalled to the factory and a new saw issued to replace it which would have gotten ugly as the dealer would then have to provide a toasted topend that hadnt been submitted for warranty before or been ported. i got a crankshaft warrantied on a saw once that was a year out of warranty with only a picture of the broken crankshaft...they asked me what condition the rest of the saw was in and approved it. even paid for the shipping of all the parts to repair it. 

short version is that if this builder is a dealer or has a good relationship with a dealer the crank bearings and carb could easily be warrantied out with no questions...the cylinder is a different story


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## fordf150 (Jan 27, 2016)

big t double said:


> that's the point...there was nothing warrantied through the factory. whoever built this saw had to eat the lower end rebuild...he did everything in his power to not eat the top end as well.. my opinion.





fordf150 said:


> rarely do parts need to go back. almost always pics need taken of the damaged cylinder...but a damaged cylinder from bearing failure probably would be warrantied without many questions from a reputable dealer or a saw with a bad bottom end and cylinder could have been recalled to the factory and a new saw issued to replace it which would have gotten ugly as the dealer would then have to provide a toasted topend that hadnt been submitted for warranty before or been ported. i got a crankshaft warrantied on a saw once that was a year out of warranty with only a picture of the broken crankshaft...they asked me what condition the rest of the saw was in and approved it. even paid for the shipping of all the parts to repair it.
> 
> short version is that if this builder is a dealer or has a good relationship with a dealer the crank bearings and carb could easily be warrantied out with no questions...the cylinder is a different story


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## fordf150 (Jan 27, 2016)

JeremiahJohnson said:


> *Reminds me of 2 ported saws I had across my bench. Fixing for owners that had only been ported for 6 months. Different saws but similar looking type work. *





JeremiahJohnson said:


> *Hmmm I think I might have a pic of the stickers on the saws, shame shame . Stickers *



keep it to yourself. asking honest questions and trying to keep this civil


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## 7sleeper (Jan 27, 2016)

Interesting thread!

Thanks for presenting!

7


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## big t double (Jan 27, 2016)

@fordf150
fair enough...this is my reply to shane, which sorted recanted the statement you quoted of mine


big t double said:


> true...if the builder is the dealer he could've probably got the lower end covered by the factory warranty... but he wouldn't be able to get the top end warrantied...so I guess that was my point, he would've had to eat the top end...which he obviously didn't want to do and reused the cylinder.
> 
> edit: i don't want to delete anything ive wrote because I don't like that... but would rather add here, me saying he obviously didn't want to replace the cylinder was just guessing/conjecture as I don't know what the cylinder looked like when it came in the first time for repair....I apologize for jumping to a conclusion



so youre saying this cylinder could've been warrantied if the builder/dealer took a picture of it? wouldn't the service rep see that it had been modified? or did the bearing failure happen prior to the modifications? im not saying that all parts get called back...or whole saws for that matter...I have 4-5 261's on the shelf that were replaced under warranty, ive only ever had one called back....so far.


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## Ironworker (Jan 27, 2016)

Would someone mind pm'n me the builder, I have a saw that is suspect and haven't had time to look into it for a couple of different reasons.


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## bikemike (Jan 27, 2016)

Ok guys il let you know why it is what it is. My burr broke so I used my air chisel to finish the rest of the job.. since my lathe blew a crank seal I had to chuck the jug on my low speed 1/2" drill and use a flat file and sheet rock rasp to drop the jug. Like all yall made comments about not having port work on exhaust and transfer ports is cause my arm got tired from filing on the intake so I gave up... 
The bearings are from a homelite saw outer race was a Lil small so I took up the gap using industrial heat shrink. I charged 532.71 before tax. That sounds like a good deal right lol


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## Definitive Dave (Jan 27, 2016)

Big issue for me regarding porting, did the buyer get what the builder led him to believe he was getting? $50 or $500 doesn't matter nor does the route to the result, if the builder met the terms of the agreement with the buyer that is what matters to me.
was warranty on a new saw and buyer told "might as well port it at this point" while waiting on warranty parts?
lots of missing pieces, and I am not going to judge based on "some" info
I am very curious that a "real" dealer ports saws of the brand he sells. Modifying a Stihl out of spec will cost you a dealership. I would imagine the others would be similar.


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## Definitive Dave (Jan 27, 2016)

Ironworker said:


> Would someone mind pm'n me the builder, I have a saw that is suspect and haven't had time to look into it for a couple of different reasons.


ask your dealer/builder? if you don't trust him to tell the truth, that might already be the answer you seek 
no reason to ask others to be underhanded


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## dl5205 (Jan 27, 2016)

I think it's crummy to do a halffast callout on a builder. Either name 'em, blame 'em, and let them defend the situation. Or leave it alone. They don't apparently get to/ have to pay a sig sponsor fee here anymore, so let the truth out on both sides. Or don't post a half- smearing "I-know-a-secret" thread.

This thread sucks.


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## fordf150 (Jan 27, 2016)

Definitive Dave said:


> Big issue for me regarding porting, did the buyer get what the builder led him to believe he was getting? $50 or $500 doesn't matter nor does the route to the result, if the builder met the terms of the agreement with the buyer that is what matters to me.
> was warranty on a new saw and buyer told "might as well port it at this point" while waiting on warranty parts?
> lots of missing pieces, and I am not going to judge based on "some" info
> I am very curious that a "real" dealer ports saws of the brand he sells. Modifying a Stihl out of spec will cost you a dealership. I would imagine the others would be similar.


ported before having its first fillup.


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## Marshy (Jan 27, 2016)

Ironworker said:


> Would someone mind pm'n me the builder, I have a saw that is suspect and haven't had time to look into it for a couple of different reasons.


GO ask your builder. Get it from his mouth. If someone said it was your builder wouldnt you want to know the builders side of the story anyways?


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## fordf150 (Jan 27, 2016)

dl5205 said:


> I think it's crummy to do a halffast callout on a builder. Either name 'em, blame 'em, and let them defend the situation. Or leave it alone. They don't apparently get to/ have to pay a sig sponsor fee here anymore, so let the truth out on both sides. Or don't post a half- smearing "I-know-a-secret" thread.
> 
> This thread sucks.


you dont like the idea of finding out what should be expected on a ported saw? or the warranty on a ported saw?
this one obviously had a limited warranty that covered the bearings and carb but not the cylinder....was this an exception or do other porters cover problems on a brand new saw. If the saw was sold/ported with the NO WARRANTY on modified saws conveyed to the customer and the builder later, out of good faith replaced bearings and carb from his own pocket...wouldnt you like to know if that is common practice for him. I am in the dark on allot of this info myself and my customer is as well...thought this would be a good topic to discuss since the saw came with at least a partial warranty but stopped short of replacing the cylinder....is that not covered? or was it an expensive item the builder just didnt want to pay for out of his pocket? I am leaving builder/owner info out of it because i simply dont have the whole story...i have asked for copies of PM's from the owner but he hasnt been able to locate them.


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## blsnelling (Jan 27, 2016)

There are two huge pieces of information missing here. What did the owner pay and did he understand the work that was being done to the saw?

Is it being suggested that it's ok to call this a ported saw and charge $250-$300 for it? My question is NOT to suggest that additional mods are needed or that the saw doesn't run well. That's an entirely different conversation. Isn't it assumed that a ported saw is actually ported and requires the work to do so? I submit that an honest builder would tell you that much less work is required to make this saw run as it should and charge accordingly. To be clear, this is a modified saw, but not a ported saw.


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## CentaurG2 (Jan 27, 2016)

Is it my imagination or have there been an awful lot of “problem ported saw threads that lead to massive butt hurt” recently?? Threads like this are not doing any “porters” any favors. You half to ask the question: Why the heck would you spend good money to modify a perfectly good chainsaw??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKvhVssO348


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## BGE541 (Jan 27, 2016)

Marshy said:


> Specific to whats in bold... If a guy can cut the base, add a pop-up and blend some of the casting flaws on a saw and make it run as good or possibly better (hypothetically) than the same model saw by another builder that put did port timing/widening, base cutting why shouldnt the first builder be able to charge the same amount as the second builder?? I think its acceptable, its the results that matter.




I agree in theory, that effectiveness matter and its great that they cyl and a pop up were cut, but ill say it, that "porting" is un-sat, to me. I think the line blurs from "porting" to "professionalism" or respect for the customer...


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## MarcS (Jan 27, 2016)

From what I've seen these new 2260's are a nightmare to work on so value wise I wouldn't think the standard 200-300 is really out of line. Also, who's to know what fuel has been ran through it and how much grit has been getting past the shitty air filter these things run? Base cut is sloppy surface finish regardless I'd agree.


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## blsnelling (Jan 27, 2016)

MarcS said:


> From what I've seen these new 2260's are a nightmare to work on


Not at all.


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## dl5205 (Jan 27, 2016)

fordf150 said:


> you dont like... he hasnt been able to locate them...



You want to act like you're exposing some kind of truth(s) here. You know who the builder is, Did you contact him for any info? Is he a well- respected person on the forums or some flash in the pan? 

You've stated it's a 2260, and the porter is a dealer. The saw has a popup. That makes me wonder if you're calling out TLandrum, or maybe it's one of Moody's. Or?.. Or?

Maybe the owner burnt the dang thang up on his own, and the porter did him a solid by patching it back up. Maybe somebody else has been in the saw besides you and the porter.

If you're gonna call somebody out, man up and call them out.


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## fordf150 (Jan 27, 2016)

MarcS said:


> From what I've seen these new 2260's are a nightmare to work on so value wise I wouldn't think the standard 200-300 is really out of line. Also, who's to know what fuel has been ran through it and how much grit has been getting past the shitty air filter these things run? Base cut is sloppy surface finish regardless I'd agree.


what does the fuel matter? there is no damage from lack of oil or bad fuel. 

saw was clean...tiny bit of sawdust in the intake which is normal for any chainsaw...especially these. 

they look intimidating to work on but the fact is that once you have had one apart they are easy. we had this down and pressure tested inside of 15 minutes....called customer and spent 45minutes explaining what we had found and what the fixes were....another 5 minutes and the cylinder was off....45 minutes of phone time again explaining what we found.


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## BGE541 (Jan 27, 2016)

FWIW I called who I believe the builder is, not specifically about this but just to get his POA on these saws to see if its consistent with what's found here. I applauded F150 as a business owner for not bashing another business but I do have heartburn over folks that pay $ with good intent and get problems. (Not specific to just this instance.)


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## fordf150 (Jan 27, 2016)

dl5205 said:


> You want to act like you're exposing some kind of truth(s) here. You know who the builder is, Did you contact him for any info? Is he a well- respected person on the forums or some flash in the pan?
> 
> You've stated it's a 2260, and the porter is a dealer. The saw has a popup. That makes me wonder if you're calling out TLandrum, or maybe it's one of Moody's. Or?.. Or?
> 
> ...


never said it was a dealer...or ? or? or?.. you see i have tried to keep the names out of it and use this as a learning event for all on what to expect and what questions to ask, if the builder wants to step forward and claim his work and defend it, well im all for that but until then we are going to look at the quality of the work and rework.

i dont see any indication that the previous damage was something the owner did....and the owner sure has no control over an air leak at the base gasket


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## Mad Professor (Jan 27, 2016)

I wouldn't let the man who did this work wrench on a plastic chi-com tricycle.


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## bikemike (Jan 27, 2016)

Need more gasket maker around the bearings and base gasket and intake boot to for insurance reasons


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## blsnelling (Jan 27, 2016)

fordf150 said:


> Reason for air leak found....pretty deep grooves left behind from cutting the base
> 
> View attachment 481747


Makes sure the transfer covers and bolts are not hitting the case.


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## Chainsaw Jim (Jan 27, 2016)

All this and not one mention of where the cylinder came from. What I'm seeing here is a cylinder that has damage from a piston with almost no damage. Those little scuffs and scratches on the piston are nothing compared to what it would look like if it had scored that cylinder.
I suspect the brand new cylinder was pulled and never put back on and a used recovery took it's place.


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## cus_deluxe (Jan 27, 2016)

Thats an interesting thought, and could solve why the cylinder wasnt warrantied. I will say good for you nate in trying to keep this constructive. None of my business who built this saw. Ive seen plenty of evidence of the "top builders" showing off their failures, usually in a highly educational thread of its own. Also like brads perspective, curious about the owners expectations etc...


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## albert (Jan 27, 2016)

blsnelling said:


> The crank was probably easy to warranty since it could be returned unmodified.
> 
> From my viewpoint, there are two totally separate issues here.
> 
> ...


What if a guy payed you 250-300 to do your "port job" and paid the same for what you consider "not a port job" and that saw kicked your saws ass, who got ripped off?


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## tlandrum (Jan 27, 2016)

this will be my one and only response to this thread so if you want more ,read it twice.
jonsered 2260 msrp for power head only is $699.95 I believe this sold for 900 plus shipping. so that means $200 over msrp for modified saw.

the saw had a crank bearing failure early on in its life and was sent back to me to be fixed. saw was repaired at no cost other than shipping.
owner was told about the scaring in the cylinder and piston at that time. owner new the cylinder was not 100% and was agreed to try it as it was before putting more money into it. after a few hrs of use the saw was acting up and returned for a carb swap. at no cost other than shipping to the owner. this was the last I heard of the saw until a few days ago.
seems that every time a saw is taken apart and the port work doesn't look exactly how they think it should ,or was told it should,the customer must have been screwed over. ive told people and posted many pictures of exactly what I do to the 562/2260. I may have tried a few minor different things over the years but I have pretty much stuck with the same thing. ive tried about every combo you could try and found this is what I liked best. no one ever gripes about how little is done to the saw when they are out showing off how well they run against others, "until" someone decides that what has been done isn't a proper port job.

just because some guys have a pound of aluminum dust after a job is done ,doesn't mean its the best way. its just there way..

when porting a saw you figure out what timing numbers you like in the saw and that's what you use. so if the transfers have the timing you want from the factory,should I grind it anyway ,just so it looks like I did more work? no...

if the exhaust timing is high enough from the factory should I raise it up just to make it look like I did more work? no...

polishing the exhaust doesn't make a saw faster and is not a necessary step,although I used to polish them like a mirror in the early days,it wasn't needed.

the intake on a 562 has very little room to do anything with ,other than take out the casting flash ,so should I have ground it more just to make it look like I did more work? no...

when you do a pop up piston on the 562 and lower the cylinder to get the squish set it gives you added intake duration and added compression. I like the factory transfer and exhaust timing so I don't touch it.
the lower transfers have a lot of casting flash in them so this needs to be removed. I do not hog out the transfers just for people to think I did more work . in my opinion the more you grind out of them the slower the saw will get.
when lowering the cylinder base on this saw it got some chatter in the finish,did it ruin the cylinder,no it did not. it was using a paper gasket that would conform to the ridges and seal up.

so im still trying to figure out what it is I did wrong??????????
I warrantied a saw at no cost other than shipping
I modified the saw for the agreed cost
once I found out from the guy that started this thread there was a problem with the saw I told him to send it to me id repair it at my cost.
once the owner finally sent me a pm saying he wasn't happy and the saw had more problems I told him to return it for repair at my cost.
I also told him id replace the saw if it got to that point at my cost.
so what im gathering from this thread,is that someone wanted to start trouble where there was none. just because they thought there should be more work done.
this was just lack of communication to the sum of me not knowing what was going on til now.
I have every email from day one on this saw and there is no he said, he said on my end. although in an email from the original poster "the owner changed his story a few times"
I stood by my word from day one of the sale and will continue to do so now even after what the original poster has tried to do.
I found out years ago that when you deal with as many different customers as I have there will always be a unhappy customer somewhere,you may not know it ,but they will be sure and tell everyone but you without giving you the chance to make things right regardless of whose at fault.
ive stayed in business this long because I do whatever I need to to make things right.

I will not be responding to any posts on this thread after this one, ive stated my case. you can think as you want about me or the situation but rest assured I can sleep well at night knowing I have done all that I could to make a customer happy in this case.


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## bikemike (Jan 27, 2016)

Chainsaw Jim said:


> All this and not one mention of where the cylinder came from. What I'm seeing here is a cylinder that has damage from a piston with almost no damage. Those little scuffs and scratches on the piston are nothing compared to what it would look like if it had scored that cylinder.
> I suspect the brand new cylinder was pulled and never put back on and a used recovery took it's place.


Nah. Those scores are small enough that it may be the plating and aluminum that was cut and ground out and never fully cleaned out before assembly squish band looks clean same as Slug top. It's small chit that caused it.


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## Marshy (Jan 27, 2016)

That clears that up.


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## Marshy (Jan 27, 2016)

Ironworker said:


> I don't believe it is being underhanded, there is no difference between a builder who charges for a service and a corporation, if he puts his name out there to make a profit he should be able to take his lumps for performing substandard work, the fact that we are not going public with the builder is pretty nice to say the least, like I said I've had my suspicions and will tear the saw down this weekend deal with it appropriately.


Look above you.


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## albert (Jan 27, 2016)

blsnelling said:


> I hope someone didn't charge $300 for a pop-up and re-assembly.


You would think by now you would have learned to keep your mouth shut. Why do you think God gave us 2 ears and 1 mouth. If someone posted some of the crap you said about you, you'd be crying like a baby. Think about why so many do not come on here anymore


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## Franny K (Jan 27, 2016)

What does a crank bearing failure mean? I saw it plural as well. What is the symptom of a bad crank bearing before the chips dent up the head and piston top.


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## babybart (Jan 27, 2016)

tlandrum said:


> I warrantied a saw at no cost other than shipping
> I modified the saw for the agreed cost
> once I found out from the guy that started this thread there was a problem with the saw I told him to send it to me id repair it at my cost.
> once the owner finally sent me a pm saying he wasn't happy and the saw had more problems I told him to return it for repair at my cost.
> I also told him id replace the saw if it got to that point at my cost



As I read this thread, this was my only question, was/will the builder be willing to make the repairs. Stand up response I think considering the way the thread was heading.


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## fordf150 (Jan 27, 2016)

babybart said:


> As I read this thread, this was my only question, was/will the builder be willing to make the repairs. Stand up response I think considering the way the thread was heading.


repairs are already taken care of.


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## fordf150 (Jan 27, 2016)

albert said:


> Why do you think God gave us 2 ears and 1 mouth.



because we would all be snackies if we had 2 mouths


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## tree monkey (Jan 27, 2016)

albert said:


> You would think by now you would have learned to keep your mouth shut. Why do you think God gave us 2 ears and 1 mouth. If someone posted some of the crap you said about you, you'd be crying like a baby. Think about why so many do not come on here anymore



quoted to like again


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## Landmark (Jan 27, 2016)

I have owned 562 and 262 both ported my Terry. Both ran/run great and i have no complaints. It sounds that he has stood behind his work and repaired and personally warranted this saw as far as being prepared to replace it. I do not have a dog in this AS "preferred porters" fueds that have been taking place latley. If WWS has repaired warranted and helped the customer then I fail to see the purpose in this thread other than trying to run sombody down. I believe the issue is betwen the buyer and seller and seems to have been resolved in a good manner. Imo tlandrums response makes the neg posters in this thread look bad. Also high end porters who have posted here, trying to make themselves look good at someone elees expense, have lost my respect and future business. This thread is a waste of my time.


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## Chainsaw Jim (Jan 27, 2016)

With all due respect...after reading this entire thread including the tlandrum post I've noticed the op is out of line for his entire purpose of this thread. It seems to only be an attack and nothing else. 
As if the bearing failure was proven to be the fault of the modification. That would mean bearings never fail unless saws are hopped up am I correct?


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## Hedgerow (Jan 27, 2016)

albert said:


> What if a guy payed you 250-300 to do your "port job" and paid the same for what you consider "not a port job" and that saw kicked your saws ass, who got ripped off?


Lol...


REPPED!!!


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## SAWMIKAZE (Jan 27, 2016)

blsnelling said:


> I hope someone didn't charge $300 for a pop-up and re-assembly.



That could go a few ways brad , the end result is what matters.


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## KiwiBro (Jan 27, 2016)

Landmark said:


> Also high end porters who have posted here, trying to make themselves look good at someone elees expense, have lost my respect and future business. This thread is a waste of my time.


This is an oxymoron. You've learned who not to respect and have dodged future bullets in your opinion. How can that be a waste of your time?

I don't care who the manufacturer or service provider is. If they are not prepared to own the issue when it can be reasonably suspected to be their doing, they deserve to be outed. Just as much as those who are willing to stand up and be counted when the time comes that they make a mistake they need to own. The latter type get my business, because they have a phucking backbone and moral compass in a world where disrespect and moral decay has become so common we hardly notice the erosion any more. The former, including those who deliberately mislead, can rot in purgatory.


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## cre73 (Jan 27, 2016)

Seeing all this and noticing fewer and fewer senior members anymore, I hope this doesn't cost us more members. I still got **** to learn.


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## blsnelling (Jan 27, 2016)

albert said:


> You would think by now you would have learned to keep your mouth shut. Why do you think God gave us 2 ears and 1 mouth. If someone posted some of the crap you said about you, you'd be crying like a baby. Think about why so many do not come on here anymore


For what? Standing behind Terry for not being responsible for the P&C damage? For the owner being fortunate to have bought the saw from a dealer who was willing to replace what was obviously defective crank bearings? For giving Terry kudos for doing the right thing in doing his best to salvage the P&C? For not telling Terry how he should or should not have modded a particular saw? By all accounts, the mods were sold at a discounted rate. I fail to see the problem.


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## bikemike (Jan 27, 2016)

Bearings new or used can fail could be a bad ball, retainer cage, or a flaw bearing races, or as stupid as being pressed on wrong. That is beyond anyone's control. Chit happens. .


I don't apologize for my sarcastic remarks. Oh wait I tried taking the blame and having fun with it.


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## blsnelling (Jan 27, 2016)

albert said:


> What if a guy payed you 250-300 to do your "port job" and paid the same for what you consider "not a port job" and that saw kicked your saws ass, who got ripped off?


Like any unhappy customer should, I would request that he contact me and have him return the saw. Quit looking for trouble.


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## BGE541 (Jan 27, 2016)

Not right, not wrong, just different... Things aren't always as they seem from either end... Sometimes we need to remember these are just chainsaws guys...

If you don't like some business got use it. I know who I'm happy with. Freedom...


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## blsnelling (Jan 27, 2016)

At least he knew to use a popup piston!


OK, OK, it's only a joke. Lighten up people


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## ZeroJunk (Jan 27, 2016)

I'm thinking that if the owner knew so much about what porting was supposed to look like he should have done it himself.


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## fordf150 (Jan 27, 2016)

Chainsaw Jim said:


> With all due respect...after reading this entire thread including the tlandrum post I've noticed the op is out of line for his entire purpose of this thread. It seems to only be an attack and nothing else.
> As if the bearing failure was proven to be the fault of the modification. That would mean bearings never fail unless saws are hopped up am I correct?


where was the bearing attributed to terry's work?


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## fordf150 (Jan 27, 2016)

ZeroJunk said:


> I'm thinking that if the owner knew so much about what porting was supposed to look like he should have done it himself.


the owner knows how to put gas in a saw...he also knows when its not running right and sent it back twice....tired of paying shipping fees to get a saw fixed he tried to trade it off and decided on just getting it fixed instead.


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## procarbine2k1 (Jan 27, 2016)

blsnelling said:


> At least he knew to use a popup piston!
> 
> 
> OK, OK, it's only a joke. Lighten up people



Riff. Raff.


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## procarbine2k1 (Jan 27, 2016)

fordf150 said:


> where was the bearing attributed to terry's work?



What carb is on the saw?


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## fordf150 (Jan 27, 2016)

procarbine2k1 said:


> What carb is on the saw?


EL48


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## bikemike (Jan 27, 2016)

cre73 said:


> Seeing all this and noticing fewer and fewer senior members anymore, I hope this doesn't cost us more members. I still got **** to learn.


Don't worry buddy il be here for years until I can't start a saw. I can teach you how to fix a con rod with a drill wire n duct tape


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## Crusherclaw (Jan 27, 2016)

This is a good example of why you should buy from a local (reputable ) dealer. Then go cut a bunch wood,the manufacture defects usually show up quick. Then there is no question of what caused what damage. Once broke in then send to get ported.


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## machinisttx (Jan 27, 2016)

fordf150 said:


> Is that fair to your customers charging full boat for a job that could be done at home by most guys that have a local machine shop.



I ain't a porter and don't have a dog in this fight. I do work at one of those "local machine shops", and will offer my opinion as to the cost of cutting a jug. You *will* be paying $200+ to have the base and squish cut to whatever specifications you provide. We don't have a shelf full of mandrels and fixtures to cut jugs, and we likely don't have appropriate material to make them. I don't know of any other shop that would keep stock on hand that they aren't going to use, or only use once every 10+ years(if that)....and we aren't likely to make them for a single job consisting of a single low dollar part. On top of that, we also assume the risk of damaging/destroying the part. Most likely, we aren't even going to take the job. Assuming we do, and assuming a 50mm jug....

2" UHMW(for the mandrel) is $9.30 a foot, plus shipping. I have no idea what it would cost to ship, but let's call it $10. So $20 to round it off.
Now we have to turn that to fit the bore, so we will figure on a half hour for that. Another $32.50(our shop rate is $65/hr unless you want it right now)
Next is figuring out how to hold the jug and drive it _without_ damaging it...and still being able to move it to get it indicated in. So we build a rinky dink fixture from some random odd lengths on the shelf. There's another $15 in material and an hour($65) spent looking for junk that would work and then making it work.
Now we spend another 45 minutes($48.75) screwing around with the rinky dink fixture, getting the jug to run true, and cutting the base.
If we're lucky, we can cut the squish without moving anything. $0
We might not be, and then have to spend another 1/2-3/4hr fiddling with it to get it right again. $32.50-$48.75
Assuming we didn't have to move anything, we're at $181.25 before tax. You still have no porting done(which we aren't going to do anyway), and no popup.
If we did have to move something. then $213.75 to $230.....still no porting or popup.
If we destroyed the jug with a crappy fixture, setup, or some unexpected cluster**** occurs, we lose money. 

I can guarantee that I have removed less material from a part and charged more for it than the "porting" from this thread cost. Should I have taken more off so the customer "got their money's worth", or only taken off what was necessary for optimum function of the part? It's a no brainer IMO. On the other hand, an agreement for services needs to have very precise and appropriate use of language to adequately define the scope of work to be performed. "Porting" implies(to me anyway) work being done on the ports to change the size or shape in some way. That doesn't appear to have been done from the photographs, but there isn't a pic of an unmodified jug for comparison either. I don't know for sure either way. In one of the pictures it doesn't appear that the liner has been matched to the port( or port matched to the liner, however you view it). The jug ain't in my hands, so again, I don't know for sure. I do know that _if_ that's the case, I would be quite displeased at having paid for a service that was not(in my opinion) rendered in full. At the least, I would expect such a flaw to be corrected when "porting" a jug. That said, $200 wouldn't buy you that much at a "local machine shop".

I'll tell you a little more of what I think, _based on what's been posted_, while I'm here. I think this thread is pretty chicken**** in origin. The issue has been represented by the original poster as if the builder was unwilling to resolve the problem. The poster then admits to not having all of the information necessary to reach anything even close to an informed conclusion, while submitting enough information for others to make a guess as to the builder was. I believe you omitted the builders name purposely in order to avoid a* clear* case of libel. The peanut gallery has jumped in, clearly without anything resembling an intelligent, logical, thought process, and finally the builder shows up to present his case, by which time the _more_ _easily influenced_ individuals have already formed their bias. Anyway, I'm out of this thread. Ya'll do whatever it is you are going to do.


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## KiwiBro (Jan 27, 2016)

Crusherclaw said:


> This is a good example of why you should buy from a local (reputable ) dealer. Then go cut a bunch wood,the manufacture defects usually show up quick. Then there is no question of what caused what damage. Once broke in then send to get ported.


Umm, perhaps an exception to that rule would be the guys down-under looking for more grr from their work saws and not only finding the extortion of local dealers offensive, a dearth of reliable local builders, but shipping costs to/from USA are not cheap enough for more than a one-way ride.

Perhaps there's an opening for a verified list of USA good buggers who want to play with new saws, to take delivery of and run in, the new saws us fleas on the pimples down here on the arrse end of the world buy, before sending those to the USA builder to do their thing. Heck, if the roles were reversed and NZ was the international hub of saw builders, I'd gladly take a few for the team and run a bunch of new saws before sending off to the builder.


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## bikemike (Jan 27, 2016)

I agree on waiting till a saw is broke inn before porting or changing a saw if warranty is a concern. I refuse to run a cat in a saw those go before I even fire it up.


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## fordf150 (Jan 27, 2016)

machinisttx said:


> I ain't a porter and don't have a dog in this fight. I do work at one of those "local machine shops", and will offer my opinion as to the cost of cutting a jug. You *will* be paying $200+ to have the base and squish cut to whatever specifications you provide. We don't have a shelf full of mandrels and fixtures to cut jugs, and we likely don't have appropriate material to make them. I don't know of any other shop that would keep stock on hand that they aren't going to use, or only use once every 10+ years(if that)....and we aren't likely to make them for a single job consisting of a single low dollar part. On top of that, we also assume the risk of damaging/destroying the part. Most likely, we aren't even going to take the job. Assuming we do, and assuming a 50mm jug....
> 
> 2" UHMW(for the mandrel) is $9.30 a foot, plus shipping. I have no idea what it would cost to ship, but let's call it $10. So $20 to round it off.
> Now we have to turn that to fit the bore, so we will figure on a half hour for that. Another $32.50(our shop rate is $65/hr unless you want it right now)
> ...


the flaw in ur slaw is that i have already had slugs and jugs to my local machinest.....$50 he will cut the squish, cut the base and fly cut the bearing pockets on a clambshell engine. eliminate the squish and bearing pockets....add a popup piston which is a simple operation that even a novice could accomplish. granted i do allot of business with him so im sure i get a break.....still the question is valid....is porting like flat rate mechanic on a car....job costs $300 whether the mechanic spends 1hr or 8 hrs doing it....is that fair to the customer? sure makes the bottom line at the shop look good. 

i can give you one great example of this....00 jeep grands have the fan relay located behind the bumper under the headlight....flat rate calls for 6hrs labor to remove the bumper and header panel to replace it. i can do it in 15 mins....dealers near me do it the same way i do it and charge 6 hrs. is that fair? what would you think if you took your vehicle in to be worked on....it took them 15 mins and they charged you for 6 hrs. I am just asking the question.....everyone can answer it for themselves.

I am a chicken ****? i thought long and hard about posting this because i know the wrath of pointing out someones work on this site.....i have already received some from a few...i will include you in that since your calling me a chicken ****. i have nothing to gain from posting this thread and everything to lose but i did it anyway because it seemed like the right thing to do. thats a rare thing these days....if you want to call me a chicken **** for doing it...thats fine. thats your opinion. go for it. 

the saw was sent back twice for repairs and came back each time still not running correctly. he got tired of paying shipping back and forth so he brought it here. terry stepped up and replaced bearings and a carb....whether that was out of his pocket or through husky....i dont know and dont care.....but if he is going to warranty those items then why was the cylinder not covered too? where is the line drawn?

I had a saw ported once...i didnt ask to many questions before shipping my saw off. after this...i wanna know what kind of warranty i get with a port job.....does it only cover mistakes made by the porter or are they going to cover any major issue that comes up early on in the saws life? or does the saw have a taillight warranty? Is shipping costs to and from covered by me or the porter because this guy has a ton of money in jsut the shipping expense. does the warranty vary depending on if the saw is bought and sent to a builder or bought from a dealer that mods his own saws to sell? many new users or future purchasers of ported saws may have never thought of these questions.


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## procarbine2k1 (Jan 27, 2016)

Nothing but respect for you Nate. Anyone who has done business with you, knows that your intentions are 100% good, and no question you're doing everything you can for a customer that deserves a good running saw. Anyone who questions your intent behind this thread (which I thought was started as professionally as possibly could be)... needs their head checked. There has been plenty of those threads here, and I didn't think this appeared to be one of them.


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## fordf150 (Jan 27, 2016)

procarbine2k1 said:


> Nothing but respect for you Nate. Anyone who has done business with you, knows that your intentions are 100% good, and no question you're doing everything you can for a customer that deserves a good running saw. Anyone who questions your intent behind this thread (which I thought was started as professionally as possibly could be)... needs their head checked. There has been plenty of those threads here, and I didn't think this appeared to be one of them.


Thank you


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## 3000 FPS (Jan 27, 2016)

I work in a shop and do all the 2 cycle engine work. That is all I do and it is like a specialty for me. I work on cut off saws, chain saws, weed wackers, ice augers, if it is 2 cycle I do it. There is no flat rate there and I only have them billed according to the time I put into the saw. If it takes 15 minutes to clean a spark arrestor then that is all they get charged for and nothing else. If you know what your doing and do it often enough then you get fast at it and because I am fast at it just means the customer gets a problem solved at a decent cost. That brings in more return business.


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## KiwiBro (Jan 27, 2016)

procarbine2k1 said:


> Nothing but respect for you Nate. Anyone who has done business with you, knows that your intentions are 100% good, and no question you're doing everything you can for a customer that deserves a good running saw. Anyone who questions your intent behind this thread (which I thought was started as professionally as possibly could be)... needs their head checked. There has been plenty of those threads here, and I didn't think this appeared to be one of them.


 When I consider how ugly this sort of thing could get without both main players in all this being respectful and professional, I say hats off to both of you.


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## Andyshine77 (Jan 27, 2016)

To be honest Terry's work looked fine as long as it makes an improvement. The base of that cylinder isn't pretty, but again I don't see it causing an issue IMHO. I like polishing the exhaust to keep carbon buildup down, it's completely unnecessary and does nothing for performance. 

For a long time now I've been saying that with many saws setting the squish and open up the muffler will give you gains, most would be more than happy with, in many saws that's 90% of the port job anyway. Man did some of the builders beat me up for saying that, and tried to say I was calling porting a fad and so on. Fact is most of these so called builders are big fish in a small pond and can't take an ounce of criticism, even if it's constructive. I could have started porting saw myself, but I simply do not have the facility to do the work to my standards and in a timely meaner. Most take on the work anyway, because they can, and than the fan boys come along and we have a full blown builder war.


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## weedkilla (Jan 27, 2016)

This thread should be locked


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## weimedog (Jan 27, 2016)

I neither build saws for hire or buy from those who do. But this class of saw presents challenges. So was the saw rebuilt with a new oem piston and cylinder left stock? Or did they go to the "machinist" ? Doubt those mod concepts would kill bearings. I have an early 562 stock with trashed bearings. so are there case changes from old to new? Looks like a couple of gasket options so wondered why that would be. I think brad pointed out the interference issue some have when lowering those cylinders.. that wouldn't kill a bearing but might cause a leak. Lots of stuff on those saws that push the boundaries. I'm inclined to err towards simplest approach possible on those. So maybe this thread could pivot into a discussion about these saws and tips to build for those inclined vs. A who did what to who type of thread. Really interesting design. Anyone wonder why both the stihls and new husky like all that heat around the transfers?


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## fordf150 (Jan 28, 2016)

weimedog said:


> Really interesting design. Anyone wonder why both the stihls and new husky like all that heat around the transfers?


 they work around the heat by splitting the transfers from the cylinder. Doesn't show in the pictures but the is airflow around them.


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## Andyshine77 (Jan 28, 2016)

weimedog said:


> Anyone wonder why both the stihls and new husky like all that heat around the transfers?



I wonder the same. My guess is to get charge temp up for a complete burn, and also to solve some of the cold start issues.


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## CR888 (Jan 28, 2016)

Imagine this 'port job' was Brads work, he'd be strung up, whipped, cained, quartered and buried alive. We all have done work that we are not so proud of, not one of us is immune from that but it's how we react to the problem and turn something negative into something positive that makes a man's man. Good on Nate for posting this, if your prepared to take the good....occaisionally ya gotta chew the bad. Transparity and honesty keeps people in check.


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## Big_Wood (Jan 28, 2016)

Andyshine77 said:


> To be honest Terry's work looked fine as long as it makes an improvement. The base of that cylinder isn't pretty, but again I don't see it causing an issue IMHO. I like polishing the exhaust to keep carbon buildup down, it's completely unnecessary and does nothing for performance.
> 
> For a long time now I've been saying that with many saws setting the squish and open up the muffler will give you gains, most would be more than happy with, in many saws that's 90% of the port job anyway. Man did some of the builder beat me up for saying that, and tried to say I was calling porting a fad and so on. Fact is most of these so called builders are big fish in a small pond and can't take an ounce of criticism, even if it's constructive. I could have started porting saw myself, but I simply do not have the facility to do the work to my standards and in a timely meaner. Most take on the work anyway, because they can, and than the fan boys come along and we have a full blown builder war.



i have owned alot of ported saws through trade here and the only saw i have ever had a wow factor for was a 372XT mdavlee ported for me (recently too) other then that one saw, i can make a saw run just as good without any machining whatsoever then any other saw i have received ported from any other builders. it's messed up really. makes me wanna run these build off saws to see what everyone talks about as i just don't see the gains published. the biggest POS labeled a good runner was a 372 with a meteor top end built by a reputable builder ( best builder by firewood hack status) here and was easily beat by the first 372 i ever owned which was done by walkers. alot diss walkers, how come they beat your saw? i really do want the fastest most reliable saw but i don't wanna spend an arm and a leg just to try the ****'n thing only to be let down as the firewood hacks here way overhype a builder. so far i have not seen what these hacks claim. i would normally live and learn but when it comes to builders on the internet i will learn and live.


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## Andyshine77 (Jan 28, 2016)

CR888 said:


> Imagine this 'port job' was Brads work, he'd be strung up, whipped, cained, quartered and buried alive. We all have done work that we are not so proud of, not one of us is immune from that but it's how we react to the problem and turn something negative into something positive that makes a man's man. Good on Nate for posting this, if your prepared to take the good....occaisionally ya gotta chew the bad. Transparity and honesty keeps people in check.



It's sad that the environment some created caused those who ran into issues with a builders saw, to refrain from posting about the issue, do to the possibility of retribution from a select few. Hopefully things have changed.


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## Andyshine77 (Jan 28, 2016)

westcoaster90 said:


> i have owned alot of ported saws through trade here and the only saw i have ever had a wow factor for was a 372XT mdavlee ported for me (recently too) other then that one saw, i can make a saw run just as good without any machining whatsoever then any other saw i have received ported from any other builders. it's messed up really. makes me wanna run these build off saws to see what everyone talks about as i just don't see the gains published. the biggest POS labeled a good runner was a 372 with a meteor top end built by a reputable builder ( best builder by firewood hack status) here and was easily beat by the first 372 i ever owned which was done by walkers. alot diss walkers, how come they beat your saw? i really do want the fastest most reliable saw but i don't wanna spend an arm and a leg just to try the ****'n thing only to be let down as the firewood hacks here way overhype a builder. so far i have not seen what these hacks claim. i would normally live and learn but when it comes to builders on the internet i will learn and live.



I agree. The first 372 I did for a friend is stronger than my own EHP372 lol. Some builders back in the day only did good work for people they trusted or liked. Some "Brad comes to mind" made better and better saws as they gained experience and learned, his early 372's are nothing like the last one I ran.


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## Jacob J. (Jan 28, 2016)

CR888 said:


> *Imagine this 'port job' was Brads work, he'd be strung up, whipped, cained, quartered and buried alive.*



There seems to be a mob mentality around Brad. Is it deserved? I doubt it. He's treated myself and many others here very well. I ended up owning the very first 261-CM he modified and it was a great running saw.

The only problem I have with Nate's (Fordf150) argument is that he states that he "knows absolutely nothing about porting" and yet "recognizes shoddy work when he sees it." There's enough of a contradiction there to raise a large shadow of doubt in my mind.



westcoaster90 said:


> *here and was easily beat by the first 372 i ever owned which was done by walkers. alot diss walkers, how come they beat your saw?*



Shane- Walker's didn't *always* produce a quality product. From 2001-2006, I had five Walker's saws in my hands including one new 660 and one new 460 (I was falling as a contractor at the time). I also had a new Wood's Logging Supply 660 for a time and that saw blew away all the Walker's saws easily, regardless of the wood, bar, or chain. It was because at the time- Walker's was opening up the lower transfers and intake port so much, the charge lost most of its' velocity, and as a result- the saws had a real "lazy" feel. The Wood's Logging Supply machine was one of the best running saws I've ever owned. It had no machine work, a stock dual-port muffler, and the WJ-69 carb. The porting was unusual: squared-off transfers and clean finger ports.

I actually got three of my Walker's saws from CanadianCarGuy (Daniel).


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## fordf150 (Jan 28, 2016)

Everyone has issues at times. About a month ago we rebuilt a dirt bike. 5 minutes of run time it abruptly shut off and had no compression. Cam gear came loose. Jumped time and bent a valve. New valves and a free valve job... Disaster solved.

What you do after a bad day says allot.


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## Big_Wood (Jan 28, 2016)

Jacob J. said:


> There seems to be a mob mentality around Brad. Is it deserved? I doubt it. He's treated myself and many others here very well. I ended up owning the very first 261-CM he modified and it was a great running saw.
> 
> The only problem I have with Nate's (Fordf150) argument is that he states that he "knows absolutely nothing about porting" and yet "recognizes shoddy work when he sees it." There's enough of a contradiction there to raise a large shadow of doubt in my mind.
> 
> ...



i hear ya JJ. walkers had a bad run when the old man retired. the old man has since pushed for the young bucks to learn what was already known. walkers 372's run stronger or as strong as alot fof 372's i have ran from builders here. same with the 385/390's. that is current.


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## fordf150 (Jan 28, 2016)

Jacob J. said:


> The only problem I have with Nate's (Fordf150) argument is that he states that he "knows absolutely nothing about porting" and yet "recognizes shoddy work when he sees it." There's enough of a contradiction there to raise a large shadow of doubt in my mind.



I am referring to the poorly cut base and zero attempt to clean up the chatter marks from grinding, what I can only assume was a lack of pressure/vac test after rebuilding. 

Compare that cylinder to the pictures of his cylinder on eBay and what he has posted here. A buyer assumes he is getting the detailed and quality craftsmanship that is shown.


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## Jacob J. (Jan 28, 2016)

fordf150 said:


> I am referring to the poorly cut base and zero attempt to clean up the chatter marks from grinding, what I can only assume was a lack of pressure/vac test after rebuilding.
> 
> Compare that cylinder to the pictures of his cylinder on eBay and what he has posted here. A buyer assumes he is getting the detailed and quality craftsmanship that is shown.



There's a lot of assumptions going on there...I've never been inside one of Terry's saws so I can't say anything about it, other than from what I've seen on the forums and on Facebook- he seems to have a lot of satisfied customers and that speaks volumes. I've not seen him advertise anything on ebay either. 

Like I've said here and elsewhere- people slammed some other "porting" jobs that didn't look like something special- but when it came down brass tacks, those saws were some of the fastest around at the time.


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## Andyshine77 (Jan 28, 2016)

fordf150 said:


> I am referring to the poorly cut base and zero attempt to clean up the chatter marks from grinding, what I can only assume was a lack of pressure/vac test after rebuilding.
> 
> Compare that cylinder to the pictures of his cylinder on eBay and what he has posted here. A buyer assumes he is getting the detailed and quality craftsmanship that is shown.



What grinding chatter are you referring to, which pic?


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## fordf150 (Jan 28, 2016)

Will post the pics for comparison in the morning


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## Andyshine77 (Jan 28, 2016)

fordf150 said:


> Will post the pics for comparison in the morning



No problem. 

I do think you may be getting ahead of yourself a bit, most grinding doesn't look as pretty as most would think, especially if you don't sand things after grinding, it's not always possible or necessary. Pretty doesn't necessarily mean better.


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## CapitaineHaddoc (Jan 28, 2016)

Marshy said:


> Aside from the obvious, something isnt adding up... Why would the builder get the bottom end warrantied but not the piston and cylinder? If I was the saw owner I would not have accepted the saw back the first time with a fluff and buffed P/C if the crank was warrantied.
> 
> Maybe the crank wasnt warrantied and the owner was fed a line of BS. Maybe the builder said it was but ate the cost because he was culpable and fluffed and buffed the P/C to save him some money from having to eat that cost too.



I had the same thing on one of my saw. From the same builder I think.


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## Big_Wood (Jan 28, 2016)

Andyshine77 said:


> No problem.
> 
> I do think you may be getting ahead of yourself a bit, most grinding doesn't look as pretty as most would think, especially if you don't sand things after grinding, it's not always possible or necessary. Pretty doesn't necessarily mean better.



i have ran quite a few of polished pretty port saws that ran no better then stock saws. really just say'n..my look on the whole thing is terry makes the best 562's around. should he detune his saws just to make more money for port work? a firewood hack in support of the ball gobbler might think so but i do not. terry should collect what others do. it's just like many artists say. "it's not that we take half hour, it's that we learned to do the equivelent of 4 hrs work in half hour. the ball gobler takes what he does because he gobbles balls and he will always gobble balls. he gobbles many balls as big as he can because he is a forum whore!


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## Backyard Lumberjack (Jan 28, 2016)

westcoaster90 said:


> i have ran quite a few of polished pretty port saws that ran no better then stock saws. really just say'n..my look on the whole thing is terry makes the best 562's around.



warranty issues aside, I think 'the customer' got one _ _ _ _ of a good deal!!!!

$700 new for the powerhead, and taken apart and modified - out the door for a lousy $200.00 additonal!  if the modifier is a specialist on this saw then its only fair to assume he dosen't send out his work with junk and crud still in the transfer ports... the scratches came from somewhere, but the stains on the outside of the cyl base say more than 4 hrs to me. but of course, i suppose we have to go with the 4 hrs.

take the saw apart, pop the cyl... set up and machine the cyl base... clean out the majority of casting flash in 1) bottom transfers b) inake port c) exhaust port d) cut cyl transfer + cut the base and set the squish... clean it all up and then reassemble it... run it and tune it... for a lousy $200.00!!!  are you kidding me? I read this thread as there just ain't a lot of $$ in saw porting... who knows what happened once the customer got ahold of it... ? I bet the mfgr of this saw does not see very many warranty calls on main bearings... on a new saw? neglect, or abuse maybe but not OE assembly ~ not on main bearings!!

now... before _anyone_ chooses to bash me or my post... just know... I am very exp'd in modifying and porting air metering devices for internal combustion engines... computer controlled and non. 2-stoke some, 4-cycle a zillion and then some. I have done at least, several thousand! in fact, I hold a US Patent for specialized designs in this field to improve bottom end torque, etc.. ie, specialized porting. when it comes to sanding, filing and scraping [facetious for porting] aluminum, I have been there and done that!! I agree the quality of work is rough by porter's standards, but for $40.00 or $50.00 worth of putting a flute to it and knowing where to put it... its more than a good value! the

*Customer got a bargain!!!*



ps: I am still curious as to why the piston shows exhaust trax opposite of the arrow on crown. please consider a PM to me if u don't want to post it here...


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## albert (Jan 28, 2016)

[QUOTE="blsnelling, post:

On the other hand, the really question to me is, what was charged for this "port job". I've caught a lot of flack for doing similar mods and calling it Stage 1. Since no real port work was done, it's worth far less money. If the owner paid $250-$300 for these mods, he got ripped off. The work simply isn't there.[/QUOTE]
You being a person that mods saws, should keep judgements like this to yourself. You did not know how much it cost, but you put up the price range you charge and stated they were "ripped off" if they paid that amount for the work that was done. Turns out it was less. Maybe a saw done like this could out cut one of yours, who knows. This maybe a hobby for you, but not everyone has the luxury of no overhead ect. Your tone comes across my saw has way more work in it then this or that guys. Maybe others have figured out how to make a better performing saw by doing them differently than you. By the way I am not looking for trouble, if I was, I could post up some real knock outs.


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## Franny K (Jan 28, 2016)

I am not sure the title choice was the best. I suspect there is shipping and insurance not just shipping as has been put in the text of everything I have read.

As to what is porting, I have seen threads where this builder has plainly shown what they do. If the bottom of the cylinder is cut the porting changes. I do not think I have seen the term decked on here so without a bunch of definitions you can see where that leads.

What the "computer readout" can tell was vague in the post 1 and the follow up, only one read it twice omitted stating no codes when sent out last time.

The comment since the saw owner has sufficient money to buy a new saw and have it modified he should realize a risk factor has been raised. If that is the consensus at this point should be factored into a choice of just buying a Husqvarna 390 or the Jonsored version instead which I think is some of the point of posting this in the first place.

I also failed to notice phone time mentioned in the same place as porting prices. Phone can be a recreational activity as well so hard to know what to make of two 45 min calls so far one before and one after disassembly as I recall.


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## nk14zp (Jan 28, 2016)

fordf150 said:


> because we would all be snackies if we had 2 mouths




Bet you would love it if the world had more snackies.


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## ZeroJunk (Jan 28, 2016)

The whole idea that you get paid for how much work you do is misguided and a good way to end up doing piece work. You get paid for what you know to a much larger extent in the real world.


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## Philip Wheelock (Jan 28, 2016)

Best part about this sorry thread is tlandrum's response. Convincing and honorable.


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## Marshy (Jan 28, 2016)

Philip Wheelock said:


> Best part about this sorry thread is tlandrum's response. Convincing and honorable.


Theres not much discussion left after that IMO.


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## LogSawyer74 (Jan 28, 2016)

All I want to add to this thread is my dealings with Terry. I had a 562 that had the off-idle bog really bad. I bought the saw online (ebay) from a dealer in Florida. The dealer in Florida pretty much refused to do any kind of warranty work on it ("just take it to your local dealer, any dealer can work on them, and save you shipping the saw too"). My local dealer didn't have the diagnostic tool, and didn't plan to get it anytime soon. (???!!) Terry was happy to work on the saw for me, ended up replacing the carb, and upgrading the software I think. He did it in a reasonable amount of time, only charged me for a decomp plug and shipping. The saw ran fantastic for the next two years that I owned it. I really appreciated Terry taking my saw in for work even though he didn't sell it to me. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a saw from Terry, cause I'm sure if anything went wrong, he'd make sure the customer was taken care of.... Just my opinion


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## Chris J. (Jan 28, 2016)

I'm quoting tlandrum / terry here only because I'm seeing some posts made after his from some people who clearly haven't read his response, or the entire thread.



tlandrum said:


> this will be my one and only response to this thread so if you want more ,read it twice.
> jonsered 2260 msrp for power head only is $699.95 I believe this sold for 900 plus shipping. so that means $200 over msrp for modified saw.
> 
> the saw had a crank bearing failure early on in its life and was sent back to me to be fixed. saw was repaired at no cost other than shipping.
> ...



---------------------------------

As for the OP keeping the builder's name out of this...

Nate, I'm not clear on your intent, and yes I've read the explanations offered in this thread. Perhaps I'm wrong, perhaps I'm reading too much into some of the posts, but it seems to me that quite a few hints--some not so subtle--were dropped as the thread progressed.

I'm guessing most AS regulars figured out the builder once it was revealed that the saw in question was a Jonsered purchased new and modified while new by the seller before it was sent to the customer.


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## Chris-PA (Jan 28, 2016)

I don't really think that Nate was trying to do anything malicious with this thread - it appears he was trying to support a customer that came to him. And Terry's explanation seemed reasonable to me too.

I've had a lot of fun modding some of my own saws, but I would not ever want to sell that service. First of all I'm not equipped in terms of facility or tools, but mainly I would not want to take on the liability. I learned a lot (although I'm still a total novice / hobbyist), and some of those things are that:

What makes a difference is sometimes quite surprising.
2-strokes are extremely complex due to the fact that everything that is happening is inter-related with everything else and you can never change just one thing
What looks pretty may not mean anything. I tried everything I could in my Earthquke mod, and tried to be clean and neat with my grinding and cutting, even to the point of avoiding raising transfers because I could not do it nicely. But it was a dog until I finally took that step - the last and ugliest mod made it fast.
Also, I don't see in these discussions a recognition of the difference between development and what is in this case low volume production. Even with the few saws I've modified, I bet I've destroyed almost as many pistons and cylinders as I have successfully modified working saws. How long with the mods I've done really last?

I work doing product design and development and there is a manufacturing facility 30' outside my office door. Right now there are 5 pre-production power supplies sitting out in the lab, and after I type this I'm going to go out and start hammering on them. Some will be destroyed or completely buggered up, and some of the rest won't ever be used. After I'm happy with them we'll build 10 more (incorporating any final changes), and these will be for certification work (UL, etc). Unless I find a real problem and then we'll have to revise the design more significantly. A huge corporation like Husqvarna will go thorough many, many iterations of this and scrap more engines than all the porters will ever see.

Production units go through all manner of inspection and testing, both as individual assemblies and in final products. Tools and fixtures are calibrated and undergo maintenance on a regular basis. Production fixtures and jigs are specially designed and built. Small shops must make their own, and make different judgements about when it's worth the overhead to even make a tool or fixture for a certain operation.

I write this to illustrate the difference between the capabilities of a corporation such as Husqvarna (in both development and production) vs. what is possible with a small shop with 1 or a handful of people.


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## BGE541 (Jan 28, 2016)

I just talked with the builder and honestly, aside from all the AS "this and that..." he's a solid guy. The "warranty" work on the bottom end was out of pocket. I would summarize it as this, we need to talk WITH eachother more, and less ABOUT eachother. Some look at it from the builders view, some the customers view, and some from a 3rd view (repair etc.)


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## opinion (Jan 28, 2016)

This is between the seller and buyer, everything else is BS and entertainment. The OP had to have known this wouldn't be a good look for him.


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## olyman (Jan 28, 2016)

albert said:


> You would think by now you would have learned to keep your mouth shut. Why do you think God gave us 2 ears and 1 mouth. If someone posted some of the crap you said about you, you'd be crying like a baby. Think about why so many do not come on here anymore


 will NEVAH happen.................


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## Jon1212 (Jan 28, 2016)

Maybe it's time for a Moderator to start a Poll about whether this thread should be locked, or not?

Good grief! The intent of this thread was conceived with understandable intentions, but due to the multiple opinions, and speculation, the execution has suffered.

Also, I am surprised that one member / builder chose to respond, considering the maelstrom that has taken place recently with him at the center.

Later.


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## Marshy (Jan 28, 2016)

Jon1212 said:


> Maybe it's time for a Moderator to start a Poll about whether this thread should be locked, or not?
> 
> Good grief! The intent of this thread was conceived with understandable intentions, but due to the multiple opinions, and speculation, the execution has suffered.
> 
> ...


Good thoughts. Couldnt have said it better.

Maybe I should poll to see if I should starts a poll for closure.


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## USMC615 (Jan 28, 2016)

Marshy said:


> Good thoughts. Couldnt have said it better.
> 
> Maybe I should poll to see if I should starts a poll for closure.


Let'er roll...


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## Jon1212 (Jan 28, 2016)

Here's another thought I had.........

Since it now seems to be okay(based off of this thread still being intact) to post failed modified saws by former Sponsors, doesn't that in turn "green light" the opportunity for other disgruntled folks to air their grievances, real or imagined on the open forums?
Seems like kind of a "Pandora's Box" to me, but I'm not clear what is considered protocol, since the abolishment of Member Sponsors.
@Marshy, @nk14zp, @Darin, @TonyK?


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## Marshy (Jan 28, 2016)

Jon1212 said:


> Here's another thought I had.........
> 
> Since it now seems to be okay(based off of this thread still being intact) to post failed modified saws by former Sponsors, doesn't that in turn "green light" the opportunity for other disgruntled folks to air their grievances, real or imagined on the open forums?
> Seems like kind of a "Pandora's Box" to me, but I'm not clear what is considered protocol, since the abolishment of Member Sponsors.
> @Marshy, @nk14zp, @Darin, @TonyK?


In the limited time I've been here there have been similar instances that have esculated out of control and threads were locked. Because of that behavior they didnt live long but it was never against the rules to create a thread like this AFAIK... it was definetly frowned upon though. AND in this case, who ends up looking like the fool? I have my own opinion but its irrelevant.


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## RedneckChainsawRepair (Jan 28, 2016)

Jon1212 said:


> Here's another thought I had.........
> 
> Since it now seems to be okay(based off of this thread still being intact) to post failed modified saws by former Sponsors, doesn't that in turn "green light" the opportunity for other disgruntled folks to air their grievances, real or imagined on the open forums?
> Seems like kind of a "Pandora's Box" to me, but I'm not clear what is considered protocol, since the abolishment of Member Sponsors.
> ?



I had a ex sponsor  from here steal a 2 piece head off my 5ci racesaw and switched a slower head on it. Does that count. 


PM's for the pos that did it.


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## HuskStihl (Jan 28, 2016)

I have big huskies ported by Terry, Mike, and Randy. All three are great running saws and very strong. All three men are also great to deal with.


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## 7sleeper (Jan 28, 2016)

I actually liked this thread and learned alot! Thanks guys for the interesting discussion and views presented!

7


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## bikemike (Jan 28, 2016)

If your stealing parts from other ppls saws, I'd hope someone takes ur oil drain plug and bypass ur oil sensor


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## USMC615 (Jan 28, 2016)

bikemike said:


> If your stealing parts from other ppls saws, I'd hope someone takes ur oil drain plug and bypass ur oil sensor


Gotta like that one...


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## dall (Jan 28, 2016)

sugar in gas tank works well also 5 pounds per 5 gallon is how i caught a gas thief long time ago


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## bikemike (Jan 28, 2016)

To get caught is gotta be total humiliation.


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## olyman (Jan 28, 2016)

bikemike said:


> To get caught is gotta be total humiliation.


 be lucky,,if all that happens is they get caught................................................................


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## nk14zp (Jan 29, 2016)

Jon1212 said:


> Here's another thought I had.........
> 
> Since it now seems to be okay(based off of this thread still being intact) to post failed modified saws by former Sponsors, doesn't that in turn "green light" the opportunity for other disgruntled folks to air their grievances, real or imagined on the open forums?
> Seems like kind of a "Pandora's Box" to me, but I'm not clear what is considered protocol, since the abolishment of Member Sponsors.
> @Marshy, @nk14zp, @Darin, @TonyK?


I think airing grievances is fine(If normal paths to resolve have been attempted) as long as it's kept civil.


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## nk14zp (Jan 29, 2016)

Backyard Lumberjack said:


> warranty issues aside, I think 'the customer' got one _ _ _ _ of a good deal!!!!
> 
> $700 new for the powerhead, and taken apart and modified - out the door for a lousy $200.00 additonal!  if the modifier is a specialist on this saw then its only fair to assume he dosen't send out his work with junk and crud still in the transfer ports... the scratches came from somewhere, but the stains on the outside of the cyl base say more than 4 hrs to me. but of course, i suppose we have to go with the 4 hrs.
> 
> ...


Don't forget about all the time put in for R&D that the builder did.
Also the port timing can be changed by grinding on the piston.


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## Moparmyway (Jan 29, 2016)

nk14zp said:


> I think airing grievances is fine(If normal paths to resolve have been attempted) as long as it's kept civil.


You see, here is where I cant stomache whats being written

I KNOW of at least one guy who was keeping everything civil (*on ALL SITES*), so civil that this guy didnt even post something, and still got banned.

AS ran on what they thought was a tipoff VIA a "heads up" from a shamefull individual

Complaints were registered and answers were given, yet posts on several sites contradicted just about everything that was being written by the AS moderators

Darins advice: just deal with it

So - you spout your spinnable diatribe and we just have to deal with it.
Collateral damage, I guess.
Piles of steamy dung is what it really is.
Dont think for one second that dudes dont know the truth

You think I am wrong ?
Prove me wrong !!
Point me to the post(s) that got me banned on Christmas Eve


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## nk14zp (Jan 29, 2016)

Moparmyway said:


> You see, here is where I cant stomache whats being written
> 
> I KNOW of at least one guy who was keeping everything civil (*on ALL SITES*), so civil that this guy didnt even post something, and still got banned.
> 
> ...


The matter you are talking about I also disagree with what happened and how it was handled.


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## bikemike (Jan 29, 2016)

Can't we all just get along.
Kill em with kindness


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## fordf150 (Jan 29, 2016)

bikemike said:


> Can't we all just get along.
> Kill em with kindness


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## Moparmyway (Jan 29, 2016)

nk14zp said:


> The matter you are talking about I also disagree with what happened and how it was handled.



well zp .........
Thank you.

Believe it or not, thats the first time someone has admitted to the truth in this matter.
Not that its going to get me anywhere, but I do feel somewhat better now.

Again, thank you


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## Del_ (Jan 29, 2016)

Moparmyway said:


> ///
> So - you spout your spinnable diatribe and we just have to deal with it.
> Collateral damage, I guess.
> Piles of steamy dung is what it really is.
> ...



You have a selective sense of smell when it comes to dung.

Somebody gets their vajaja hurt by a short term ban and they won't ever come back and then we get to hear about it forever, on multiple forums. Sucks.

Get over it.


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## bikemike (Jan 29, 2016)

Need a big baby winer forum for those who get butt hurt easy by things ppl say. Sounds like someone is trying to take away the freedom of speech or type. Ppl can chit talk or dog me all they want and il make em more mad with a smile as my response. The real butt hurt is doing a hot wings challenge. If you can dish it out you better be able to take it back as hard or harder.


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## Jon1212 (Jan 29, 2016)

Del_ said:


> You have a selective sense of smell when it comes to dung.
> 
> Somebody gets their vajaja hurt by a short term ban and they won't ever come back and then we get to hear about it forever, on multiple forums. Sucks.
> 
> Get over it.



Dayum! That's pretty dang hypocritical coming from one of the biggest PRP's (post reporting pussies) on the site. Just because you think you're reporting posts anonymously, we all know what a crybaby you are, and have always been.


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## dxray (Jan 29, 2016)

machinisttx said:


> I ain't a porter and don't have a dog in this fight. I do work at one of those "local machine shops", and will offer my opinion as to the cost of cutting a jug. You *will* be paying $200+ to have the base and squish cut to whatever specifications you provide. We don't have a shelf full of mandrels and fixtures to cut jugs, and we likely don't have appropriate material to make them. I don't know of any other shop that would keep stock on hand that they aren't going to use, or only use once every 10+ years(if that)....and we aren't likely to make them for a single job consisting of a single low dollar part. On top of that, we also assume the risk of damaging/destroying the part. Most likely, we aren't even going to take the job. Assuming we do, and assuming a 50mm jug....
> 
> 2" UHMW(for the mandrel) is $9.30 a foot, plus shipping. I have no idea what it would cost to ship, but let's call it $10. So $20 to round it off.
> Now we have to turn that to fit the bore, so we will figure on a half hour for that. Another $32.50(our shop rate is $65/hr unless you want it right now)
> ...



I'm still trying to figure out how you would charge someone 200$ for a job that would take at most an hour to do. Not sure what you are trying to achieve with these jigs and fixtures, but they are a waste of time. Chuck the cylinder in a 4 jaw chuck and dial in the bore and the base, it's really that simple. Deck the base then go in and cut the squish all in one operation.


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## HuskStihl (Jan 29, 2016)

I report any post that my inner child finds hurtful. Luckily, my inner child is a mean little ****er who doesn't give a **** about what folks type on a chainsaw forum


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## cus_deluxe (Jan 29, 2016)

ZeroJunk said:


> The whole idea that you get paid for how much work you do is misguided and a good way to end up doing piece work. You get paid for who you know to a much larger extent in the real world.


 fixed


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## SAWMIKAZE (Jan 29, 2016)

I have a serious question.

This may sound dumb but since i only have a cell phone maybe i dont see it ... but how do you report posts ?

I figured if i ever lose all my testosterone and wanna start snitichin it might come in handy.


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## bikemike (Jan 29, 2016)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> I have a serious question.
> 
> This may sound dumb but since i only have a cell phone maybe i dont see it ... but how do you report posts ?
> 
> I figured if i ever lose all my testosterone and wanna start snitichin it might come in handy.


Hey buddy keep me on ur good list. I didn't make too much fun of ur mix n match toof problem from ur avitar


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## Marshy (Jan 29, 2016)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> I have a serious question.
> 
> This may sound dumb but since i only have a cell phone maybe i dont see it ... but how do you report posts ?
> 
> I figured if i ever lose all my testosterone and wanna start snitichin it might come in handy.


Look for the "report" button at the bottom near the reply button... IDK if that TalpTalk APP thing is the same but I use the web version on my mobile and it's there...


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## Jon1212 (Jan 29, 2016)

Marshy said:


> Look for the "report" button at the bottom near the reply button... IDK if that TalpTalk APP thing is the same but I use the web version on my mobile and it's there...



REPORTED! 




(not really)


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## SAWMIKAZE (Jan 29, 2016)

bikemike said:


> Hey buddy keep me on ur good list. I didn't make too much fun of ur mix n match toof problem from ur avitar



If i could figure out how to tell on you i would


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## USMC615 (Jan 29, 2016)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> I have a serious question.
> 
> This may sound dumb but since i only have a cell phone maybe i dont see it ... but how do you report posts ?
> 
> I figured if i ever lose all my testosterone and wanna start snitichin it might come in handy.


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## dall (Jan 29, 2016)

dxray said:


> I'm still trying to figure out how you would charge someone 200$ for a job that would take at most an hour to do. Not sure what you are trying to achieve with these jigs and fixtures, but they are a waste of time. Chuck the cylinder in a 4 jaw chuck and dial in the bore and the base, it's really that simple. Deck the base then go in and cut the squish all in one operation.




may we ask what kind of job you have and what you are paid if you are wondering what others are making and why they charge is simple . why do you think plumbers and electricians can charge the going rate its the knowledge they have and experience is what is being paid for . if your name is because of what job you have then you may understand and if not see about getting a xray of your brain some people dont understand knowledge is worth paying for ffs a monkey can flip a burger


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## dxray (Jan 29, 2016)

dall said:


> may we ask what kind of job you have and what you are paid if you are wondering what others are making and why they charge is simple . why do you think plumbers and electricians can charge the going rate its the knowledge they have and experience is what is being paid for . if your name is because of what job you have then you may understand and if not see about getting a xray of your brain some people dont understand knowledge is worth paying for ffs a monkey can flip a burger



I am a licences machinist, I also build and race snowmobiles. I do know a few things about building engines. This is an operation that an apprentice can get done in an hour. Charge an hour at whatever your shop rate is, ours in 90$/hour by they way.


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## dall (Jan 29, 2016)

im not a machinist and dont claim to be but there is more work to port than sticking it on a lathe the knowledge of the numbers that work best and knowing where to use a grinder is another thing and is why i dont port or ruin a cylinder trying to port ill leave that to the ones who do it for a living


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## Backyard Lumberjack (Jan 29, 2016)

dxray said:


> I am a licences machinist, I also build and race snowmobiles. I do know a few things about building engines. _This is an operation that an apprentice can get done in an hour._ Charge an hour at whatever your shop rate is, ours in 90$/hour by they way.



one thing I like about AS is we can express our individuality! and as such, I disagree with you completely! an apprentice would not be able to make the tooling, chuck it up, set the lathe... dial it all to -0- and then deck the cyl and run the boring tool or switch up tooling and inside the cylinder and cut the squish, etc. at all much less in an hour! or less.... I don't believe it, and I don't buy it. it is easy to write such words, but in all actuality just the dialing in is intimidating. the moment I found out that you or your race 'mobile shop was letting the apprentices cut my, the cyls... i'd be down the road.  by apprentice we... well at least me! assume beginner. the implication reads well! I am not saying an apprentice who is just hours away from journeyman couldn't do it given training, education and experience. I think the threads here on AS on the subject, complete with indepth fotos and vids... clearly show its not a job for beginner, apprentice or even a skilled machinist without the knowledge and experience of what he is doing.

and it takes more than an hour to accumulate and accomplish such understanding... production work and turning aside.


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## dxray (Jan 29, 2016)

My post was about the machining only, no you cannot machine and port a cylinder in an hour. I have a ported 353 and I have about an hour into the porting. And that's a saw with transfer covers. 200-250$ for a machined cyl, pop up and porting is a very reasonable price. 200$ to only deck the base and cut the squish, that's absurd.


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## USMC615 (Jan 29, 2016)

Backyard Lumberjack said:


> one thing I like about AS is we can express our individuality! and as such, I disagree with you completely! an apprentice would not be able to make the tooling, chuck it up, set the lathe... dial it all to -0- and then deck the cyl and run the boring tool or switch up tooling and inside the cylinder and cut the squish, etc. I don't believe it, and I don't buy it. it is easy to write such words, but in all actuality just the dialing in is intimidating. the moment I found out that you or your race 'mobile shop was letting the apprentices cut my, the cyls... i'd be down the road.  by apprentice we... well at least me! assume beginner. the implication reads well! I am not saying an apprentice who is just hours away from journeyman couldn't do it given training, education and experience. I think the threads here on AS on the subject, complete with indepth fotos and vids... clearly show its not a job for beginner, apprentice or even a skiiled machinist without the knowledge and experience of what he is doing.


Troof !!


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## dall (Jan 29, 2016)

i read alot on here on i understand alot of what it takes to do the cylinder and also i have watched the videos i would say you would have about a full day in all the mods if not more 



it is plain to see dxray is newbie and still green on here with his 3rd message trying to tell the builders here he is better at the machining and also saying they over price their work


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## Backyard Lumberjack (Jan 29, 2016)

dxray said:


> My post was about the machining only, no you cannot machine and port a cylinder in an hour. I have a ported 353 and I have about an hour into the porting. And that's a saw with transfer covers. 200-250$ for a machined cyl, pop up and porting is a very reasonable price. 200$ to only deck the base and cut the squish, that's absurd.



again my opinion... and then I am off this topic... but if u go back are ck it out... the 200 was not to only deck the base and cut the squish!!! so please keep these comments accurate and relevant... this is a serious thread and many here are here to learn more about saws that they didn't know so much about before getting and joining the AS. I speak for myself when I say I don't particularly like comments that dilute the or attempt to dilute the reality of the situation...


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## Jon1212 (Jan 29, 2016)

Well look at who "likes" ol' Del's hyper hypocritical post. The other notorious PRP.


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## dxray (Jan 29, 2016)

First of all, I guess being in the trade makes things easier for me, I have never knocked anyone's work. I've been reading a ton on here and learning more about saws. I've never claimed I know more than anyone here, just stated my opinion on a machining aspect. All our lathes are equipped with 4 jaw chucks. Takes a minute or 2 to dial a part in, yes some can be trickier than other, even if it took 10 minutes. Cutting the base should take no more than 5 minutes, the squish maybe 15-20 depending on the angle needed. All in all it should not take over an hour if you have any lathe experience. And everyone was green and an apprentice at one point.


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## Jon1212 (Jan 29, 2016)

Backyard Lumberjack said:


> again my opinion... and then I am off this topic... but if u go back are ck it out... the 200 was not to only deck the base and cut the squish!!! so please keep these comments accurate and relevant... *this is a serious thread *and many here are here to learn more about saws that they didn't know so much about before getting and joining the AS. I speak for myself when I say I don't particularly like comments that dilute the or attempt to dilute the reality of the situation...



Yeah, a seriously bad idea.


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## dxray (Jan 29, 2016)

Backyard Lumberjack said:


> again my opinion... and then I am off this topic... but if u go back are ck it out... the 200 was not to only deck the base and cut the squish!!! so please keep these comments accurate and relevant... this is a serious thread and many here are here to learn more about saws that they didn't know so much about before getting and joining the AS. I speak for myself when I say I don't particularly like comments that dilute the or attempt to dilute the reality of the situation...



If you look at the post from machinisttx, he's quoting 200$ to machine the cyl. I'm talking about his comment, not what this whole thread is about. It has been a good read though.


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## dall (Jan 29, 2016)

so you are saying machinisttx is less of a machinist than you ? different areas have different price ranges also but why would you want to criticize another work or job


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## bikemike (Jan 29, 2016)

Backyard Lumberjack said:


> again my opinion... and then I am off this topic... but if u go back are ck it out... the 200 was not to only deck the base and cut the squish!!! so please keep these comments accurate and relevant... this is a serious thread and many here are here to learn more about saws that they didn't know so much about before getting and joining the AS. I speak for myself when I say I don't particularly like comments that dilute the or attempt to dilute the reality of the situation...


How do you like that echo 271t you got? I haven't heard much about them except they are light


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## Backyard Lumberjack (Jan 29, 2016)

bikemike said:


> How do you like that echo 271t you got? I haven't heard much about them except they are light



as a matter of fact, I like it a lot! imo, very powerful for size, given I wanted a _featherweight_ for specialized chain saw work up at the farm. I like it so much, I use it in town too. hard not to like the 5-yar consumer warranty!


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## blsnelling (Jan 29, 2016)

Jon1212 said:


> View attachment 482239
> 
> Well look at who "likes" ol' Del's hyper hypocritical post. The other notorious PRP.


Why is it that you're ALWAYS looking for trouble?


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## dall (Jan 29, 2016)

who?


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## Backyard Lumberjack (Jan 29, 2016)

dxray said:


> If you look at the post from machinisttx, he's quoting 200$ to machine the cyl. I'm talking about his comment, not what this whole thread is about. It has been a good read though.



I read it. while I am not a machinist, I do have a machine shop. engine lathe, mills, d.p.s and tooling, tooling, and related equipment, etc... and more tooling. so I am at least more than casually familiar with machine shop ops, etc... I found machinisttx comment's to be both valid and realistic given his explanations. said, imo... like a man who knows the dif between profitable production work and low margin, time consuming one-off type of projects. I can accept that you might be a talented, gifted machinist... with professional standing... and motivated to build and race 'mobiles and skilled to build their engines... maybe even win a few, too. lol... but the issue is being condescending and imparting your standards on comments and postings calling for a more generic approach, given that the thread is a sensitive one, to say the least. and as such like another poster, I don't know why you are criticizing another's position on the subject. you say an apprentice can do it in an hour... and I say, no he cannot! doubtful he could not even learn the geometry and timing issues in an hour! 

facts r facts, and as such...just how it is.


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## bikemike (Jan 29, 2016)

Backyard Lumberjack said:


> as a matter of fact, I like it a lot! imo, very powerful for size, given I wanted a _featherweight_ for specialized chain saw work up at the farm. I like it so much, I use it in town too. hard not to like the 5-yar consumer warranty!


Cool I've been looking into getting one. Well maybe we should start a 271 thread and a vid of ur machine. But for now let's not dilute the bickering these guys are doing lol


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## dxray (Jan 29, 2016)

dall said:


> so you are saying machinisttx is less of a machinist than you ? different areas have different price ranges also but why would you want to criticize another work or job



Is twisting words all you do here?? I simply stated you don't need fancy jigs and mandrels to deck and cut a cylinder. If people think that's what it cost based on one quote, that's not right. If a shop wants to charge 200$ to deck and cut a cyl, shop around and you will get a better price. I'm looking for technical discussions, not a pissing match with people who love to twist words and start argument over nothing.


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## dall (Jan 29, 2016)

im not twisting words or trying to argue the way i see it if you are trying to put someone down or criticizing their work then you should keep comments to yourself


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## Backyard Lumberjack (Jan 29, 2016)

bikemike said:


> Cool I've been looking into getting one. Well maybe we should start a 271 thread and a vid of ur machine. But for now let's not dilute the bickering these guys are doing lol



you echo, pun intended, my thots, too. I was going to suggest that, so thank you. I guess Chainsaws would be the best Forum, and so then... back to full strength on this porting thread... lol. I could set up some felled branches say... 1-2" in diameter... then run the 271 thru them... kinda like woods ported saw like... let it shine in its own sawdust... lol zip - zip... zip zip!


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## olyman (Jan 29, 2016)

bikemike said:


> Need a big baby winer forum for those who get butt hurt easy by things ppl say. Sounds like someone is trying to take away the freedom of speech or type. Ppl can chit talk or dog me all they want and il make em more mad with a smile as my response. The real butt hurt is doing a hot wings challenge. If you can dish it out you better be able to take it back as hard or harder.


 don't worry mike,,they cant handle it.....babies of the highest order.....


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## olyman (Jan 29, 2016)

Jon1212 said:


> Dayum! That's pretty dang hypocritical coming from one of the biggest PRP's (post reporting pussies) on the site. Just because you think you're reporting posts anonymously, we all know what a crybaby you are, and have always been.


 now Jon,, she tells EVERYONE she aint.. course,, ANYONE,, thats been here any time at all,, can figure it out........................which you more than have,, and spelled it out plainly....your now officially on his bad side......hes a ex mod and all.................................................................


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## Chris-PA (Jan 29, 2016)

dxray said:


> I simply stated you don't need fancy jigs and mandrels to deck and cut a cylinder.


I think if you look at a variety of cylinder designs you'll find some that cannot be easily chucked in a 3 or 4 jaw, which is why mandrels are used. I did cut a cylinder from one of my cheap Earthquakes without a mandrel by gripping it with a 3-jaw from the inside, but it had a flange that went most of the way around. A 4 jaw would not have worked as it had open transfer runners. Even then with the chrome plated inside surface the grip was not as secure as I would have liked, and I was concerned about damaging the finish. If it had slipped or spun the jaws would have rotated into the transfer ports and the whole thing would have gone flying. Then again it was from an Earthquake I paid $30 for.


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## bikemike (Jan 29, 2016)

When ppl don't have the resources to do mods then they have to stick with what they got of pay the price if they want to. This is shat I like about living in the USA. You got choices so make decisions pay or don't receive


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## olyman (Jan 29, 2016)

dxray said:


> I am a licences machinist, I also build and race snowmobiles. I do know a few things about building engines. This is an operation that an apprentice can get done in an hour. Charge an hour at whatever your shop rate is, ours in 90$/hour by they way.


 doing it right,, and in the correct amount,, is called experience..and if you aint got it on cs's......welllll......................


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## dall (Jan 29, 2016)

so del is a woman ? i wondered why i had the impression of that with the avatar


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## olyman (Jan 29, 2016)

blsnelling said:


> Why is it that you're ALWAYS looking for trouble?


 really?????


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## olyman (Jan 29, 2016)

dall said:


> so del is a woman ? i wondered why i had the impression of that with the avatar


 typing miss hit.....


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## blsnelling (Jan 29, 2016)

To turn a pop-up and cut the cylinder base takes less than 1/2 hour. That's not counting R&Ring the cylinder or measuring squish.


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## blsnelling (Jan 29, 2016)

olyman said:


> really?????


Really.


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## dxray (Jan 29, 2016)

blsnelling said:


> To turn a pop-up and cut the cylinder base takes less than 1/2 hour. That's not counting R&Ring the cylinder or measuring squish.



Do you have a fixture to cut the cyl or just chuck on the od with a 4 jaw?


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## olyman (Jan 29, 2016)

blsnelling said:


> Really.


 some people,, can have some really hard lessons to learn from,, and NEVER do.................


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## blsnelling (Jan 29, 2016)

dxray said:


> Do you have a fixture to cut the cyl or just chuck on the od with a 4 jaw?


I have a mandrel for each common bore size. I get get that centered, then hold the cylinder on it with a live center in the tail stock.


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## KiwiBro (Jan 29, 2016)

What's most surprising, in a good way, is it took so many pages before the light of respectful, on-topic dissent was accosted by riffraff moths.

Thank you to the main players who handled the matter well, and for the learning opportunities earlier in the thread.

Unsubscribing.


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## Jon1212 (Jan 29, 2016)

blsnelling said:


> Why is it that you're ALWAYS looking for trouble?


How am I looking for trouble, Brad? You're the one who can't take criticism of your work, yet you have no problem criticizing other Saw Porters. 

You are also one to call other people names, yet you can't take it in return. 

What exactly did you "like" about Del's post? It seemed whatever he was attempting to say could very easily apply to your penchant for hitting the "report" button.

As I previously stated in this thread regarding you "casting stones" towards another "Saw Modder", you are typically the center of any maelstrom that blows up into epic proportions, usually about someone criticizing your work, ability, or results. So what makes you think it is okay Brad, to do the same to someone else, when the evidence is heresay at best?

I know, I know, this is just another case of someone picking on you. 

The second you decided to toss that first stone in this thread, you opened yourself up as fair game.


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## Tor R (Jan 29, 2016)

blsnelling said:


> To turn a pop-up and cut the cylinder base takes less than 1/2 hour. That's not counting R&Ring the cylinder or measuring squish.


do you operate with fixed price or hour by hour price?


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## dxray (Jan 29, 2016)

blsnelling said:


> I have a mandrel for each common bore size. I get get that centered, then hold the cylinder on it with a live center in the tail stock.



What about the squish band??


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## blsnelling (Jan 29, 2016)

Jon1212 said:


> How am I looking for trouble, Brad? You're the one who can't take criticism of your work, yet you have no problem criticizing other Saw Porters.
> 
> You are also one to call other people names, yet you can't take it in return.
> 
> ...



More often than not, it's the messenger I refuse. Would really expect someone to listen to malicious criticism like you give? Most of the criticism I receive is written with the intent to cause trouble and hurt reputation. You can ask those who treat me with respect and you will find that I actually ask for *constructive* criticism. There's a HUGE difference. 

On the other hand, I have NEVER seen such a group of discontented individuals. Talk about whining! I have never seen a group of people whine like the small group of guys that you can't seem to help from falling back in with, over and over. You seek seek this crap out, looking for what you can stir up. You look for trouble and stick your nose in it every time. 

What's even more disgusting is the pious talk on your "new forum" that you're all there to get away from the crap on AS. What a joke! You guys are the ones that create and spread the crap. Like I already said, you look for those opportunities and seem to thrive on it. Everyone you see a chance the group of you runs back over here to cause more trouble.

Of course, you'll just turn this around and fling this right back at me, like you always do. I expect nothing less. It's a pattern, it's expected. That's what you are. I've given up on it being any different. You can paint an outhouse white, but it's still full of crap.

Go ahead guys, let the waterfall of tears and whining commence.


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## awol (Jan 29, 2016)

I would really like to meet and shake the hand of the man who can chuck this jug up directly in a three or four jaw chuck, cut both the squish band and base to a tolerance of less than .001" true to bore, and do it all in less than one hour.


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## olyman (Jan 29, 2016)

Jon1212 said:


> How am I looking for trouble, Brad? You're the one who can't take criticism of your work, yet you have no problem criticizing other Saw Porters.
> 
> You are also one to call other people names, yet you can't take it in return.
> 
> ...


  eloquent my man, eloquent


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## ZeroJunk (Jan 29, 2016)

cus_deluxe said:


> fixed




There is some truth to that, but it is also the old standby for losers.


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## olyman (Jan 29, 2016)

awol said:


> I would really like to meet and shake the hand of the man who can chuck this jug up directly in a three or four jaw chuck, cut both the squish band and base to a tolerance of less than .001" true to bore, and do it all in less than one hour.
> 
> View attachment 482354


 aww h!! that aint nothing,,for the new low post count machinist that just showed up..piece of cake.... and hed do it for $5!!!!!


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## cus_deluxe (Jan 29, 2016)

ZeroJunk said:


> There is some truth to that, but it is also the old standby for losers.


haha theres some truth to that too.


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## Franny K (Jan 29, 2016)

awol said:


> I would really like to meet and shake the hand of the man who can chuck this jug up directly in a three or four jaw chuck, cut both the squish band and base to a tolerance of less than .001" true to bore, and do it all in less than one hour.
> 
> View attachment 482354


Was the squish (essentially where a head would start if a two piece cylinder/head) cut in what this thread started out with?


----------



## cus_deluxe (Jan 29, 2016)

ZeroJunk said:


> There is some truth to that, but it is also the old standby for losers.


wait, you callin me a loser?!


----------



## cus_deluxe (Jan 29, 2016)

Franny K said:


> Was the squish (essentially where a head would start if a two piece cylinder/head) cut in what this thread started out with?


i believe it was a pop-up machined into piston, with cylinder base cut.


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## Hedgerow (Jan 29, 2016)

awol said:


> I would really like to meet and shake the hand of the man who can chuck this jug up directly in a three or four jaw chuck, cut both the squish band and base to a tolerance of less than .001" true to bore, and do it all in less than one hour.
> 
> View attachment 482354


Me too..
Cause I sure as hell can't.


----------



## Jon1212 (Jan 29, 2016)

blsnelling said:


> More often than not, it's the messenger I refuse. Would really expect someone to listen to malicious criticism like you give? Most of the criticism I receive is written with the intent to cause trouble and hurt reputation. You can ask those who treat me with respect and you will find that I actually ask for *constructive* criticism. There's a HUGE difference.
> 
> On the other hand, I have NEVER seen such a group of discontented individuals. Talk about whining! I have never seen a group of people whine like the small group of guys that you can't seem to help from falling back in with, over and over. You seek seek this crap out, looking for what you can stir up. You look for trouble and stick your nose in it every time.
> 
> ...



Man, talk about projecting your own personality, and characteristics on others. 

As for the waterfall of tears, I believe you have that market cornered. 

True to form, Brad. You once again failed to answer any of the questions I asked.


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 29, 2016)

And before someone jumps on it, no, I'm not talking about everyone on that forum, our any forum. I'm talking about those of you that are total hypocrites, that cause more trouble, and do more whining than anyone else on any chainsaw forum. Those of you that I'm talking about know exactly who you are. More likely than not, you're the ones getting mad reading this. If 10-15 of you could be done away with, there wouldn't be this problem we have.


----------



## Marshy (Jan 29, 2016)

Franny K said:


> Was the squish (essentially where a head would start if a two piece cylinder/head) cut in what this thread started out with?


Yes, the base, squish and piston.

Oh wait, I thought it was... Im going to go back and check because I thought the base and squish was cut...


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## TonyK (Jan 29, 2016)

Ahh same three week cycle. How refreshing.


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## Hedgerow (Jan 29, 2016)

blsnelling said:


> And before someone jumps on it, no, I'm not talking about everyone on that forum, our any forum. I'm talking about those of you that are total hypocrites, that cause more trouble, and do more whining than anyone else on any chainsaw forum. Those of you that I'm talking about know exactly who you are. More likely than not, you're the ones getting mad reading this.  If 10-15 of you could be done away with, there wouldn't be this problem we have.


----------



## Jon1212 (Jan 29, 2016)

blsnelling said:


> And before someone jumps on it, no, I'm not talking about everyone on that forum, our any forum. *I'm talking about those of you that are total hypocrites*, that cause more trouble, and do more whining than anyone else on any chainsaw forum. Those of you that I'm talking about know exactly who you are. More likely than not, you're the ones getting mad reading this. If 10-15 of you could be done away with, there wouldn't be this problem we have.



You do know what the definition of a _hypocrite _is, Brad? 

The reason I ask is that I don't see where I have been hypocritical. You on the other hand have created oodles, and oodles of drama over your work, approach, and how you treat others being criticized, yet you perpetrate these same slights upon others, and feel that you are above reproach.
Your behavior seems rather like a hypocrite.

"Be done away with"? Really?


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## Hedgerow (Jan 29, 2016)

LOL...

This stuff is awesome..

Talk about low hangin' fruit...


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## Marshy (Jan 29, 2016)




----------



## blsnelling (Jan 29, 2016)

Let me point out what is obvious to most. These fights start when one of you wanders over here, throws a stone, and I call you out on it. You then turn around and act like it's my fault. This cycle repeats itself over and over. When this handful of guys isn't here, there is NO trouble. Why am I always in the middle of it? That's because I'm the only one stupid enough to keep calling you out. And that's a collective you. Yeah, you'd think I'd give up and shut up, but I'll never stop fighting for what's right.


----------



## TonyK (Jan 29, 2016)




----------



## Marshy (Jan 29, 2016)

And... que.


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 29, 2016)

Jon1212 said:


> You do know what the definition of a _hypocrite _is, Brad?
> 
> The reason I ask is that I don't see where I have been hypocritical. You on the other hand have created oodles, and oodles of drama over your work, approach, and how you treat others being criticized, yet you perpetrate these same slights upon others, and feel that you are above reproach.
> Your behavior seems rather like a hypocrite.
> ...


The hypocrisy is that you guys claim to be sick of all this bickering and fighting, yet you seek out and create it every chance you get.


----------



## bikemike (Jan 29, 2016)

I think it's time for some rental cars and a figure 8 track. Yall can hit bump push and slam all you want for good entertainment


----------



## bikemike (Jan 29, 2016)

Yep had to add to the comedy


----------



## olyman (Jan 29, 2016)

blsnelling said:


> And before someone jumps on it, no, I'm not talking about everyone on that forum, our any forum. I'm talking about those of you that are total hypocrites, that cause more trouble, and do more whining than anyone else on any chainsaw forum. Those of you that I'm talking about know exactly who you are. More likely than not, you're the ones getting mad reading this. If 10-15 of you could be done away with, there wouldn't be this problem we have.


 true dat..then, youd have zero critism,,and could run the forum any way you want.....


----------



## Marshy (Jan 29, 2016)

olyman said:


> true dat..then, youd have zero critism,,and could run the forum any way you want.....


It doesnt work like that.


----------



## TonyK (Jan 29, 2016)

Oly, You are like that little yappy dog running along side the big dog in the cartoons. Throwing your two cents in and stirring the pot but providing very little value. Has your life always been that way or have you had to culture this persona?


----------



## Marshy (Jan 29, 2016)

TonyK said:


> Oly, You are like that little yappy dog running along side the big dog in the cartoons. Throwing your two cents in and stirring the pot but providing very little value. Has your life always been that way or have you had to culture this persona?


Stop giving me ideas.


----------



## PULLINmyPOULAN (Jan 29, 2016)




----------



## awol (Jan 29, 2016)

TonyK said:


> Oly, You are like that little yappy dog running along side the big dog in the cartoons. Throwing your two cents in and stirring the pot but providing very little value. Has your life always been that way or have you had to culture this persona?



Do the rules no longer apply to moderators?


----------



## Jon1212 (Jan 29, 2016)

blsnelling said:


> The hypocrisy is that you guys claim to be sick of all this bickering and fighting, yet you seek out and create it every chance you get.


"You guys".........LOL! Good one.

Again, Bradley. You scream bloody murder if anyone makes comments about your workmanship even close to the comments you made about the "port work" shown in this thread, yet somehow you feel it's okay for you to be doing the same to another. 

I see you once again failed to answer in a complete manner.


----------



## Jon1212 (Jan 29, 2016)

awol said:


> Do the rules no longer apply to moderators?
> View attachment 482385


LOL! Alan, you almost made me make lemonade come out muh nose.......not cool, bro'.........not cool.


----------



## bikemike (Jan 29, 2016)

awol said:


> Do the rules no longer apply to moderators?
> View attachment 482385


Rule 5 or 6 is the important one. Says any muffler with a cat must have the cat removed immediately. Drilling a hole through it don't count


----------



## TonyK (Jan 29, 2016)

blsnelling said:


> The hypocrisy is that you guys claim to be sick of all this bickering and fighting, yet you seek out and create it every chance you get



Brad,
You are not lily white in all this BS. Your skin must be made of rice paper to get butt hurt so quickly and your reaction is so predictable the mods could almost write it in advance of your first post. Please do try and think through your posts before hitting the post button.


----------



## TonyK (Jan 29, 2016)

awol said:


> Do the rules no longer apply to moderators?



Yup they do. My apologies for my outburst.


----------



## dall (Jan 29, 2016)

so let me get this right brad is saying jon and who ever are members of another site in brads eyes are not welcome here ?


----------



## Mastermind (Jan 29, 2016)

Howdy. 

I see not much has changed. I'll say this and disappear......

I like Tony more than I thought I did. 

First impressions are rarely spot on.


----------



## dall (Jan 29, 2016)

blsnelling said:


> And before someone jumps on it, no, I'm not talking about everyone on that forum, our any forum. I'm talking about those of you that are total hypocrites, that cause more trouble, and do more whining than anyone else on any chainsaw forum. Those of you that I'm talking about know exactly who you are. More likely than not, you're the ones getting mad reading this. If 10-15 of you could be done away with, there wouldn't be this problem we have.




this is what i dont like when one tries to control the whole site like they own it i have not had any problems with anyone but this is total bs here


----------



## olyman (Jan 29, 2016)

TonyK said:


> Oly, You are like that little yappy dog running along side the big dog in the cartoons. Throwing your two cents in and stirring the pot but providing very little value. Has your life always been that way or have you had to culture this persona?


 tell me,,about the constant bs from brad....


----------



## olyman (Jan 29, 2016)

awol said:


> Do the rules no longer apply to moderators?
> View attachment 482385


 beep, beep!!!


----------



## dall (Jan 29, 2016)

and noone answered my question earlier when i asked if del was a woman


----------



## olyman (Jan 29, 2016)

TonyK said:


> Brad,
> You are not lilly white in all this BS. Your skin must be made of rice paper to get butt hurt so quickly and your reaction is so predictable the mods could almost write it in advance of your first post. Please do try and think through your posts before hitting the post button.


DAMN!!!!


----------



## olyman (Jan 29, 2016)

dall said:


> and noone answered my question earlier when i asked if del was a woman


 no,,but then again......


----------



## dall (Jan 29, 2016)

olyman said:


> no,,but then again......



so your saying just feminine qualities nails painted and all that crap ?


----------



## Hedgerow (Jan 29, 2016)

dall said:


> and noone answered my question earlier when i asked if del was a woman


I can't tell..


----------



## Hedgerow (Jan 29, 2016)

Some say, he roams to and fro on the sides of the earth, seeking whom he may devour..
Lol..


----------



## Marshy (Jan 29, 2016)

I like trains.


----------



## Marshy (Jan 29, 2016)

Stupid bus driver or stupid train?

Discuss...


----------



## 7sleeper (Jan 29, 2016)

What I wonder is why moderators continue with this idiotic campain and donot shut down this thread? Must be they have their own agenda. 

7


----------



## Del_ (Jan 29, 2016)

7sleeper said:


> What I wonder is why moderators continue with this idiotic campain and donot shut down this thread? Must be they have their own agenda.
> 
> 7



I wonder that too. Plus give the boot to those asking for it.

To someone not familiar with saw modders and even to someone that is, threads like this make them look like a pretty pathetic bunch.

Even reading other forums on the subject wouldn't do much to dismiss the impression.


----------



## Tor R (Jan 29, 2016)

I dont wonder that they have not locked it, if they should shut down every thread a few people complain about they could just shut down the whole forum

Besides, I am not sure the saw is repaired yet


----------



## bikemike (Jan 29, 2016)

Marshy said:


> I like trains.



That's cool it has air bags


----------



## bikemike (Jan 29, 2016)

Marshy said:


> Stupid bus driver or stupid train?
> 
> Discuss...



Stupid train. What if there were kids on it


----------



## bikemike (Jan 29, 2016)

Tor R said:


> I dont wonder that they have not locked it, if they should shut down every thread a few people complain about they could just shut down the whole forum
> 
> Besides, I am not sure the saw is repaired yet


Good point if saw is not done yet than we do not have closure


----------



## Backyard Lumberjack (Jan 29, 2016)

Hedgerow said:


> LOL... This stuff is awesome.. Talk about low hangin' fruit...



flame wars at their best! star wars has nothing on this latest escalation...omg!!!!

probably about time a Moderator stepped in, these communiques are not too good for new blood signing up and subscribing to the site. I fail to see much friendliness here. and doubt most of the slingers have even actually met in person, however that is mere speculation on my part. some threads are best removed in their entirety. I can't say this is one, however... does hint similar characteristics to me.


----------



## Backyard Lumberjack (Jan 29, 2016)

dall said:


> and noone answered my question earlier when i asked if del was a woman



or why the piston arrow points away from the exhaust port!!! lol ~


----------



## CR888 (Jan 29, 2016)

Being a mod here would send you crazy in short order. I admire those who have a go and do their best to stay sane.lol I am not sure what the answer is to restoring harmony back to AS, it's way above my pay grade. Things need to change but god knows where to start, its a mess.


----------



## bikemike (Jan 29, 2016)

tree monkey said:


> I guess brad can say any thing he wants, my posts get deleted


Only some can exercise the freedom of speech/text. But not you. Ur just a Lil guy on this site lol


----------



## bikemike (Jan 29, 2016)

CR888 said:


> Being a mod here would send you crazy in short order. I admire those who have a go and do their best to stay sane.lol I am not sure what the answer is to restoring harmony back to AS, it's way above my pay grade. Things need to change but god knows where to start, its a mess.


Look at Facebook this is clean not so jerry springer


----------



## Michigan Escapee (Jan 29, 2016)

dall said:


> this is what i dont like when one tries to control the whole site like they own it i have not had any problems with anyone but this is total bs here



Same kind of bs happened on a bushcraft site with some sponsor knifemakers who were pushing shoddy goods. Money vs friendship won, and not just once. Things went to hell pretty fast, they had to ban contributors before they could delete content posted to the forum. People got to where they changed YouTube accounts just to bust the links. Ugly business, but ultimately,users make the forum, not the people selling goods. Those people get pissed enough, and it's all over. Bye bye customer and user base. You can also count on a ton of nasty online reviews to boot.

That should all be common sense, but the same mistakes happen over and over and over. Some people are incapable of learning basic public relations, and biz ethics.


----------



## babybart (Jan 29, 2016)

fordf150 said:


> repairs are already taken care of.



For those that lost track of thread and asked.


----------



## Franny K (Jan 29, 2016)

babybart said:


> For those that lost track of thread and asked.


"repairs are already taken care of." I saw that a ways back.
I take that to mean the builder bought it back. Otherwise I think we deserve a paragraph or two at a minimum.


----------



## babybart (Jan 29, 2016)

I took it to mean OP repaired it as the owner did not want to ship the saw anymore.


----------



## babybart (Jan 29, 2016)

fordf150 said:


> the owner knows how to put gas in a saw...he also knows when its not running right and sent it back twice....tired of paying shipping fees to get a saw fixed he tried to trade it off and decided on just getting it fixed instead.



Found it.


----------



## Marshy (Jan 29, 2016)

Did I mention I like trains?


----------



## bikemike (Jan 29, 2016)

Marshy said:


> Did I mention I like trains?


Especially with the snow blower rig and huge plow blades


----------



## dall (Jan 29, 2016)

ever watch railroad alaska and all the fake drama there ?


----------



## Brettl (Jan 29, 2016)

I had a ported train once.


----------



## Marshy (Jan 29, 2016)

dall said:


> ever watch railroad alaska and all the fake drama there ?


No.


----------



## Jon1212 (Jan 29, 2016)




----------



## gary courtney (Jan 29, 2016)

olyman said:


> hes a ex mod and all.................................................................


there sure are a lot of "exes" on this site!


----------



## Jon1212 (Jan 29, 2016)

gary courtney said:


> there sure are a lot of "exes" on this site!


Gary,

I bet you know some stuff about poor quality port work, and stuff.


----------



## USMC615 (Jan 29, 2016)

I jumped from page 12 straight to page 15...damn this is good reading and probably didn't miss much, lol. Let this chit roll on and no mod jump in with that BS 'we're gonna shut 'er down' talk. Folks either got enough thick hide, or enough ass to walk the walk, or get the hell off the front porch. One things for certain...ass hurt's a comin...be mindful if you make a living off others who shop and spend money here.


----------



## Jon1212 (Jan 29, 2016)

USMC615 said:


> *I jumped from page 12 straight to page 15*...damn this is good reading and probably didn't miss much, lol. Let this chit roll on and no mod jump in with that BS 'we're gonna shut 'er down' talk. Folks either got enough thick hide, or enough ass to walk the walk, or get the hell off the front porch. One things for certain...ass hurt's a comin...be mindful if you make a living off others who shop and spend money here.


You may have missed something funny I wrote...........


----------



## USMC615 (Jan 29, 2016)

Jon1212 said:


> You may have missed something funny I wrote...........


I'll hafta do some backtrack'n...


----------



## Backyard Lumberjack (Jan 30, 2016)

Marshy said:


> Did I mention I like trains?



for _any _train aficionado... the History Channel dvd *Extreme Trains* is an awesome 7 hour train ride. everything trains, all types... and an amazing coverage of the background side of trains and their operations. impressive. even if seen, worth riding the Union Pacific lines again!  I got a copy recently at my public library... and if yours (anyone's) does not have it, often times it can be acquired... thru interlibrary lending.


----------



## Marshy (Jan 30, 2016)

Backyard Lumberjack said:


> for _any _train aficionado... the History Channel dvd *Extreme Trains* is an awesome 7 hour train ride. everything trains, all types... and an amazing coverage of the background side of trains and their operations. impressive. even if seen, worth riding the Union Pacific lines again!  I got a copy recently at my public library... and if yours (anyone's) does not have it, often times it can be acquired... thru interlibrary lending.


I will have to check Netflix and Amazon Prime for that! Unfortunately 98% of my train viewing pleasure comes from Thomas the Train.


----------



## Hedgerow (Jan 30, 2016)

Still alive I see...


----------



## babybart (Jan 30, 2016)

What's a public library? I asked the girlfriends kids and they just shrugged!


----------



## USMC615 (Jan 30, 2016)

babybart said:


> What's a public library? I asked the girlfriends kids and they just shrugged!


Lol...


----------



## super3 (Jan 30, 2016)

Builder receives an order for a saw,

In this case it was a new saw purchase and mods were discussed and a price set,

Partial disassemble of saw and set up degree wheel for a quick check of #s, (they aren't always identical on all cylinders of that same saw model) measure squish, calculate the base cut for where he wants the ports to be and popup height. 

Remove cylinder and piston, set up and cut the popup, clean the piston and install. Install cylinder and re check squish, remove cylinder, set up for base cut, clean cylinder, do the "very minor" grinding to the ports as determined by all the trial and error of previous less than desired results, install cylinder and re check squish.

Perform the muffler mods needed for this particular model.

Re assemble, install bar and chain, fill with fuel and bar oil, test fire, shut it off. Leave the shop for the wood pile and test the idle, off idle and wot. Put it in the wood and let it eat for a good bit. Return to the shop, drain the fuel and bar oil, clean up the saw and prep for shipping. Package it and print a shipping label and schedule the pick up.

Resources used,
Measuring equipment, lathe, air compressor, cleaning solutions, flex shaft grinder and bits, sanding rolls, tools, lights, heat (or AC ) and I'm sure I missed a few.

Eventual replacement of all the equipment when they are worn out or repairs when they break.

Insurance and property taxes on the building he is doing all this in.


He charged $200.00 for the "quick 30 minute job" of cutting the base and pop up.
What a crook!


----------



## SAWMIKAZE (Jan 30, 2016)

super3 said:


> Builder receives an order for a saw,
> 
> In this case it was a new saw purchase and mods were discussed and a price set,
> 
> ...



Its nice to hear someone else thinks that way.

I just never feel like typing all that..spot on.


----------



## olyman (Jan 30, 2016)

Del_ said:


> I wonder that too. Plus give the boot to those asking for it.
> 
> To someone not familiar with saw modders and even to someone that is, threads like this make them look like a pretty pathetic bunch.
> 
> Even reading other forums on the subject wouldn't do much to dismiss the impression.


 buwhahahhahhahahahaaaa, hypocrite...


----------



## blsnelling (Jan 30, 2016)

super3 said:


> He charged $200.00 for the "quick 30 minute job" of cutting the base and pop up.


If that's in reference to the 30 minutes I mentioned, I was careful to point out that I was talking about *machine time* to cut the popup and base *ONLY*. In no way did I insinuate that this was a 30 minute job. No where in this thread did I state that Terry did a bad job, nor did I say that he should have done the mods any differently.


----------



## Jacob J. (Jan 30, 2016)

dxray said:


> I'm still trying to figure out how you would charge someone 200$ for a job that would take at most an hour to do. Not sure what you are trying to achieve with these jigs and fixtures, but they are a waste of time. Chuck the cylinder in a 4 jaw chuck and dial in the bore and the base, it's really that simple. Deck the base then go in and cut the squish all in one operation.



I paid a dentist $460 for a root canal that took maybe a hour. He must be a crook...


----------



## sunfish (Jan 30, 2016)

I stayed at a Holiday Inn once...


----------



## pioneerguy600 (Jan 30, 2016)

Jacob J. said:


> I paid a dentist $460 for a root canal that took maybe a hour. He must be a crook...



You got away cheap!!


----------



## TonyK (Jan 30, 2016)

Yeah. It could have cost you your eye teeth.


----------



## RedneckChainsawRepair (Jan 30, 2016)

$1025 for less then a hour for 5 stitches from Doc. $1200 for the bed to set in in the ER room for less then a hour. Bargains NOT!


----------



## Backyard Lumberjack (Jan 30, 2016)

super3 said:


> Builder receives an order for a saw,
> 
> In this case it was a new saw purchase and mods were discussed and a price set,
> 
> ...



don't forget... he deflashed/minor ported: lower transfers, intake port, and exh port.... [What a crook!] you prob are spot on... since clearly... it's a job _any_ machine shop apprentice could do in an hour or less...


----------



## Jon1212 (Jan 30, 2016)

CPA charged $650 to prepare my Tax Return........Family Trust Attorney charges $250 an hour to tell our Family why it took so long for the Life Insurance company to pay on my Dad's policy.


----------



## SAWMIKAZE (Jan 30, 2016)

A lady was pissed at my dad for chargin her 500 dollars to re-flash a chimney on her house..he told her if you wanna go buy the aluminum coil..brake..ladders ..roof jacks because it was so steep..a million dollar liability policy to do the work in our state..truck..30 years of learning..bein on a roof when its 20 degrees with the wind howlin..have at it..its all yours.


----------



## Big_Wood (Jan 30, 2016)

my thing is that the people referred to from the other site complain and whine about everything on the internet and say that's how everyone else is. complain and whine about AS saying they are so glad to be done with AS and yet here they are in a drama thread even. who would have thought? it should be said that the ones who complain and whine are the only ones who come over here lol. there are some that just won't shut the **** up about past issues. like dang man, that was a year ago and your still hurt from it. this is the internet. funny thing is the ones who claim people get butt hurt are the ones who get butt hurt the worst out of anyone i know. the people who say they don't take the internet serious are the ones who make it a real life problem for themselves. it's messed up that all of AS is just fine until a thread that they post in pops up. then they go to another site and claim AS is ruined because of threads like that but neglect the fact that those threads wouldn't be like that if it weren't for them. forums really are addicting, i think we can all agree on that. i've been on less and less and eventually want to be done with it. quitting smoking was easier then quiting these forums because i like saws. quite simply put, alot of these whiners/complainers really don't know **** all about saws lol people gotta remember that it's as easy as hitting your computers power button or deleting tapatalk. reality then comes back and life will go on. some members here are commited. all hours of the day they are posting somewhere on the net. amazing how they can juggle real life and forums but then again maybe forums are their real life. on a day where i'm just sitting around i might be on here an hour total. for fun go google why forums suck, read a bit, then shut off your device and go for a hike. this **** isn't real life like some have made it for themselves and refuse to admit.


----------



## cgraham1 (Jan 30, 2016)

blsnelling said:


> And before someone jumps on it, no, I'm not talking about everyone on that forum, our any forum. I'm talking about those of you that are total hypocrites, that cause more trouble, and do more whining than anyone else on any chainsaw forum. Those of you that I'm talking about know exactly who you are. More likely than not, you're the ones getting mad reading this.








blsnelling said:


> *If 10-15 of you could be done away with, there wouldn't be this problem we have.*


Did I make this list? Gosh, I sure hope I made the list!! 



blsnelling said:


> Let me point out what is obvious to most. These fights start when one of you wanders over here, reads something stupid or offensive that I post, and calls me out on it, then I call you bad names, and say stupid stuff in reply.


That's very upstanding of you to finally admit it.


blsnelling said:


> ...it's my fault this cycle repeats itself over and over.


Agreed. 


blsnelling said:


> I am always in the middle of it, because I am the cause of pretty much all of it!


Right again!


blsnelling said:


> That's because I'm the only one stupid.


You said it, not me.


blsnelling said:


> The hypocrisy is that I claim to be sick of all this bickering and fighting, yet I seek out and create it every chance I get.


Truer words have never been uttered.


blsnelling said:


> If I wasn't here, there would be NO trouble.


Troof.

Good talk. I sincerely hope you have a wonderful day. I'm going to take the kids for a bike ride.


----------



## olyman (Jan 30, 2016)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> A lady was pissed at my dad for chargin her 500 dollars to re-flash a chimney on her house..he told her if you wanna go buy the aluminum coil..brake..ladders ..roof jacks because it was so steep..a million dollar liability policy to do the work in our state..truck..30 years of learning..bein on a roof when its 20 degrees with the wind howlin..have at it..its all yours.


 20 degrees?????!!!!!! should have had to pay a grand!!! that roof was dangerous,,even with no snow or ice!!!!


----------



## SAWMIKAZE (Jan 30, 2016)

olyman said:


> 20 degrees?????!!!!!! should have had to pay a grand!!! that roof was dangerous,,even with no snow or ice!!!!



I forgot the contractors liscense you gotta pay 600 a year to be registered with the state.

and not to mention all the hand tools.

Some people have no clue what it takes to do a job.

She was pissed it only took us 5 hours..you could blow some people and they wont be happy..i dont get it sometimes.


----------



## MarkEagleUSA (Jan 30, 2016)

SAWMIKAZE said:


> you could blow some people and they wont be happy..i dont get it sometimes.


No thanks... I've seen your teef.


----------



## Homelite410 (Jan 30, 2016)

You should hear some members complain about my price for this.........





I'm sorry but cool costs money.


----------



## USMC615 (Jan 30, 2016)

Homelite410 said:


> You should hear some members complain about my price for this.........
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Awesome!!...with a capital 'A'...very nice.


----------



## Ironworker (Jan 30, 2016)

I just pulled the juf off of a wickedworksaw 2188 and the work done to it was right on target, I would have no problem recommending Tlandrum.


----------



## olyman (Jan 30, 2016)

Homelite410 said:


> You should hear some members complain about my price for this.........
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 yeah, I remember some of the snide comments....


----------



## SAWMIKAZE (Jan 30, 2016)

MarkEagleUSA said:


> No thanks... I've seen your teef.



You never had a scrape job before ?


----------



## TonyK (Jan 30, 2016)

Dude. That's just so wrong on so many levels... Brain bleach here I come.


----------



## Tor R (Jan 30, 2016)

Ironworker said:


> I just pulled the juf off of a wickedworksaw 2188 and the work done to it was right on target, I would have no problem recommending Tlandrum.


that is important to remember, he do great job, even he did not succeeded on this 2260. It's human to could fail once.


----------



## Marshy (Jan 30, 2016)

Tor R said:


> that is important to remember, he do great job, even he did not succeeded on this 2260. It's human to could fail once.


How do you know he didn't succeed on the 2260? Have you ran one of his 2260's and compared it to another builders 2260? How do you know it won't smoke one that's been "ported"? I find your comment condescending and I think Terry would too.


----------



## dave53223 (Jan 30, 2016)

Homelite410 said:


> You should hear some members complain about my price for this.........
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That looks good. If you want it pay the man.


----------



## GCJenks204 (Jan 30, 2016)

Marshy said:


> How do you know he didn't succeed on the 2260? Have you ran one of his 2260's and compared it to another builders 2260? How do you know it won't smoke one that's been "ported"? I find your comment condescending and I think Terry would too.


Marshy, in case you aren't aware he's from Norway and English is not his first language. I'm pretty sure we all know this particular 2260 was not a success having had to have been in to 3 times or more to get it running perfectly.
We have all agreed that Terry can build a bad mamma jamma 2260/562 but this one just didn't turn out the best. Now is it seems likely that there was another inherent issue that caused some of the problems.

Sent from my SGH-I317M using Tapatalk


----------



## bryanr2 (Jan 30, 2016)

cgraham1 said:


> View attachment 482580
> 
> 
> Did I make this list? Gosh, I sure hope I made the list!!
> ...




Best post ever.


----------



## USMC615 (Jan 30, 2016)

dave53223 said:


> That looks good. If you want it pay the man.


That's fine work right there. I ain't no machinist by trade, I've played around with some of it...I work flight controls/avionics on C-17 aircraft and live in a very tight tolerance world, but have brothers who are engineers/machinists. I've shown both of them pics of his work...both said 'damn, that's sweet.' And they'll turn around and tell me exactly what he used/how he used it, the steps/procedures, to get it done.

I agree 100%...gotta pay to play, with fine machinist work.


----------



## bikemike (Jan 30, 2016)

Lathes mills cnc don't pay for them selves. Then you need the slab, electrical, tooling. Specialized jigs. 
Yeah that don't cost much to obtain and own. In your dreams


----------



## USMC615 (Jan 30, 2016)

bikemike said:


> Lathes mills cnc don't pay for them selves. Then you need the slab, electrical, tooling. Specialized jigs.
> Yeah that don't cost much to obtain and own. In your dreams


Spot on...!!!


----------



## Marshy (Jan 30, 2016)

GCJenks204 said:


> Marshy, in case you aren't aware he's from Norway and English is not his first language. I'm pretty sure we all know this particular 2260 was not a success having had to have been in to 3 times or more to get it running perfectly.
> We have all agreed that Terry can build a bad mamma jamma 2260/562 but this one just didn't turn out the best. Now is it seems likely that there was another inherent issue that caused some of the problems.
> 
> Sent from my SGH-I317M using Tapatalk


Don't give me that BS that english is his second language. He's been on the forum long enough and has demonstrated he understands the English language to know what he's saying. The bottom line is his comment and yours is condensing and lacks the respect I think Terry deserves given this situation. To say "the saw was not a success" is not accurate IMO and is apparent the original failure was not a result of anything Terry did or didn't do.

One would think that after the builder got a chance to tell his side of the story people might come around to the fact that Terry offered to make it right but the buyer has chosen not to take him up on it.

The fact is the buyer takes a risk when they have a new saw modified/ported. You can't expect a non stock cylinder to be covered by a factory warantee and if he expected Terry to cover it he should of asked sobhe knew what to expect up front. Some times when you take a risk and lose you win a life lesson. The real lesson is don't assume anything.

Edit:
I'm editing this because I admitt that yesterday I read into @Tor R and @GCJenks204 posts and I made a conclusion that was over reaching. I apologized to them both in a PM as I believe I was interjecting some frustration I was having outside of the forum.


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## dall (Jan 30, 2016)

Homelite410 said:


> You should hear some members complain about my price for this.........
> 
> 
> 
> ...



if i had one of these id be afraid to scratch it and it would be hanging above my tv in the living room id be heartbroken if i used it and it got messed up it is a beautiful work of art


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## bikemike (Jan 30, 2016)

I'd run it. But I can't just look at things.


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## USMC615 (Jan 30, 2016)

bikemike said:


> I'd run it. But I can't just look at things.


...it is made to serve a purpose. Other than hittin the lottery and shelf queenin' everything like a museum...I'd agree.


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## bikemike (Jan 30, 2016)

I've seen some nice steam engines and they looked better when they were in use.


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## dall (Jan 30, 2016)

i live in west virginia and there is a few scenic train rides can ride such as cass scenic railroad the tygart flyer durbin rocket potomac eagle the salamander and a few more i havent rode on


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## USMC615 (Jan 30, 2016)

I'm gonna say this now...I ain't got no dog in this fight when it comes to saw porters, otherwise. Ain't got no ported saws. You folks see the cheap chit I got in my sig...and I ain't too damn proud to put up the chicken chit I own...they're mine, free and in the clear, ain't owing nobody nuthin. 

We're all here to live and learn for the most part. I'm way down on the scale of learning, but I try to keep up with this stuff as best I can. It's overwhelming to me at times trying to keep up with it, talking all this squishy stuff, milling stuff, etc, and ain't too proud to admit it. I got a little sense about me...but this is all kinda new to me. Let's move on...

One post I did not like here was simply this...'If we could get rid of 10-15 members, we'd be alright, wouldn't have any problems.'...don't like that one bit. Maybe I misread it, maybe I didn't??...ya rectum??

My intent here is not to call any saw builder out, nor stir any BS pot...But I do question the narcissism invoked and involved in here. I read what I read fellas, and I cut up when I cut up...I'll end up buying some bigger, badder saws...would like to get them geeked up, ported. But until then, I got what little chit I got, and I'm content and happy with it. I think I've narrowed down my field of future porters, no doubt...just sayin'.

You fellas have a great night.


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## SAWMIKAZE (Jan 31, 2016)

TonyK said:


> Dude. That's just so wrong on so many levels... Brain bleach here I come.


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## Marshy (Jan 31, 2016)

I think the best thing at this time is to move on. I'm locking the thread. If anyone has a legitimate reason it should be opened back up you can PM me and it will be considered.


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## Marshy (Jan 31, 2016)

Is asked by the saw owner to repost this.

"My name on AS is ash man and I'm the owner of the saw in question. I was out of town Weds through Friday night in Charlotte NC at a trade show. I didn't find out about the thread until it was well on its way and never did actually get caught up until late last night. I spent yesterday talking to Terry and Nate about the situation to try to get my ducks in a row before I even posted a response, but figured I better hurry since its already locked on AS as of this morning.

Everything Nate has posted is extremely factual to the best of his knowledge. I wasn't aware of the saws problems and I went to his shop for the first time ever to buy a 6100 and potentially trade him my 2260, because it had issues 3 times and seemed like every 4th or 5th time I'd run the saw something else would go wrong with it. Nate was considering a trade, but wanted to check it out on his software to check its history first. When he did a bunch of error codes poped up. I decided to leave it there for a vac test and if it came back clean Nate would take it on trade for a 6100. Pretty much the exact version Nate indicated. Right before I left for my trade show I talked to Nate and he let me know about the air leaks and that he'd like to fix them and he'd treat me right on the repair bill. Once he tore it down he saw the scoring in the p&c and the rough port ( modification work) and said he might start a thread to see what peoples thoughts were. I told him I didn't want in the middle of it and didn't want anyone mentioned which he agrees on. Nate went out of his way to keep it positive and not mention anyone in particular, but rather get opinions on what actually constitutes port work and what the builder should warranty if anything. I don't believe Nate was trying to be malicious in any way, rather just trying to help out a fellow AS member.

I bought the saw from Terry during his 2013 cyber Monday sale at a very attractive price. I bought the saw from Terry because he has a very good reputation. The saw went back to Terry twice for bearing issues and once for the carb upgrade from el-46 to 48 and each time Terry did the work on his dime. I only paid for shipping. He took care of it and got me a running saw in a timely manner. If I would have contacted Terry again with an issue I'm sure he would have made it right again. Now you can argue the port job all you want. It's not the prettiest or probably the fasted 60cc saw in the world, but I was verry happy with its performance while it was running. The issues the saw had i don't believe were Terry's fault, but rather the bugs in a new model saw. He built me a powerful saw for a great price and even fixed it when he could have told me to pound salt, since I knew the warranty went out the window when I bought a ported saw.

In conclusion what Terry, Nate and I have come up with is this; Terry is sending me a lightly used p&c (would have sent a new one, but won't have one in till sometime in March) and Nate is going to install it so I can avoid $50 shipping bill for freight. Once again Terry is stepping up to make it right and Nate is going above and beyond to help a fellow AS member out. I couldn't be more appreciative to Terry and Nate for helping me out.in this matter. If I had bought the saw from a run of the mill dealer I'd be out of warranty now even if it was stock. Kudos to Terry and Nate once again.

I'd definitely would recommend buying *** from Terry and Nate. I know I will if I have future needs. I think alot was said and assumed about the parties involved and hopefully this helps finally put this thread to rest. They both are stand up guys and I would personally trust them with future purchases down the road."


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