# Climbing Friction Knots



## Blinky (Dec 17, 2006)

As promised, a knot poll. This ain't a 'which is the BEST knot?' poll. It's probably safe to say there is no best knot, or, at least no way to determine what knot is the best. The idea is a statistical crossection of what knot AS members prefer and maybe some discussion about how you came to use a particular knot.

I'm using a distel because Ryan Willock taught me DRT and that's what he uses. It suits me fine and I have no reason to try anything else though I've toyed with a Blake's and used Prusiks years ago climbing fixed ropes.

There are only 10 poll choices so I'll name the ones I'm familiar with and leave an 'Other' choice so you can elaborate if you like. I got my terminology from an ISA article, 'Son of a Hitch' by Mark Adams... I think.

If anybody wants to start a flame war, be my guest but seriously witty discussion is a lot more interesting.


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## Hack Jr (Dec 17, 2006)

Blakes in evergreens for hip thrust action, Distel in Oaks for sensitive descents, but mostly Blakes!


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## BostonBull (Dec 17, 2006)

I voted for the Martin. Martin Morales invented this knot. He is a Teacher for Arbormaster and from Mexico. It isnt a blakes on a split tail it is a blakes hitch on an eye-eye prussic, except you only come under one wrap not two.

It is also not called the Martin its called the Michoacan, after the city where he lived in Mexico.


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## Blinky (Dec 17, 2006)

BostonBull said:


> voted for the Mrtin. Martin Morale invented this knot. He is a Teacher for Arbormaster and from Mexico. It isnt a blakes on a split tail it is a blakes hitch on an eye-eye prussic, except you only come under one wrap not two.
> 
> it is also not called the Martin its called the Michoacan, after the city where he lived in Mexico.



I may have let my inexperience show here, I used the term 'split tail' to refer to the eye-eye prussic... although to me, a prusik (prussic?) is a knot and a split tail is a section of rope with an eye spliced (or loop tied) in each end. Is the single eye line like with a Blakes (on DRT) also a split tail?

I knew the terms would be confusing but this may be a good way to get a better grip on'em.


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## ggttp (Dec 17, 2006)

I used to climb with taught line but didn't like the creep. So i switched about 3 years ago to Blakes with fair lead on a split tail. I have recently been thinking about switching to a vt or distel after seing a guy use it at the Paul Bunyan show in October. It seemed to work smoothly and responsive. What can any body that climbs with one tell me about it.


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## rahtreelimbs (Dec 17, 2006)

I use the Knut. Anyone have a picture of the Mrtin.?


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## BostonBull (Dec 17, 2006)

rahtreelimbs said:


> I use the Knut. Anyone have a picture of the Mrtin.?




Sorry I misspelled it. it is Martin (Mar-teen). Just take a eye-eye and do four wraps up like a blakes hitch, then come down and go between your bridge and rope, and go under one wrap on that side, and attach both eyes to a biner or snap. Just like a blakes except only go under ONE wrap not TWO. Different cordswill require more or less wraps, as with all new hitches/knots start low and slow.


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## begleytree (Dec 17, 2006)

rahtreelimbs said:



> I use the Knut. (snip)


X2.
-Ralph


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## emr (Dec 17, 2006)

If you want a pic of the Martin go to ******** and look under "Articles". There is an article there that explains it and has a picture. It it a great knot. I tried it about a year ago, and I will never switch. I have used VT and Distal, but Martin kills them all. I would give it a shot.


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## adkranger (Dec 17, 2006)

I use several hitches depending on the circumstances and particular ropes I'm using. I voted Blake's 'cuz that's what I use most of the time with my old school Arbor Plex, but will use prussiks, tautline and have recently been toying with the Distel. Will use prussiks, distels, autobloc, and couple variations on my kernmantles. You can never have too many tricks in the bag IMO. Always on the quest for that perfect setup....... is there one?

A prusik is not a knot, but a hitch(like all of these) tied using a loop of cord joined with a double fishermen's knot. Symantics I guess, but for those lurking that may not know the difference. Of course you can also use "prusik" cord with eyes to tie some other useful hitches. Makes for confusion for the new to the sport, is the prusik the cordage or the hitch??


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## Blinky (Dec 17, 2006)

adkranger said:


> A prusik is not a knot, but a hitch(like all of these) tied using a loop of cord joined with a double fishermen's knot. Symantics I guess, but for those lurking that may not know the difference. Of course you can also use "prusik" cord with eyes to tie some other useful hitches. Makes for confusion for the new to the sport, is the prusik the cordage or the hitch??



I have another related question... what is a split-tail?


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## DDM (Dec 17, 2006)

Blinky said:


> I have another related question... what is a split-tail?



split·tail /ˈsplɪtˌteɪl/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[split-teyl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
a minnow, Pogonichthys macrolepidotus, of the Sacramento River, having the upper lobe of the tail much longer than the lower lobe: habitat changes have greatly reduced its numbers.


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## 046 (Dec 17, 2006)

blakes with a split tail for me..


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## adkranger (Dec 17, 2006)

DDM said:


> split·tail /ˈsplɪtˌteɪl/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[split-teyl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
> –noun
> a minnow, Pogonichthys macrolepidotus, of the Sacramento River, having the upper lobe of the tail much longer than the lower lobe: habitat changes have greatly reduced its numbers.



I think sailors have a different definition for "split tails"..........:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: 

Blinky I don't know if this is the text book answer, but I'll give it a try. A split tail system is using a doubled over rope similar to the traditional system except you do not use the "tail" of the rope at the attachment point('biner or snap hook) to tie your Blakes or Tautline or ??? You use a separate piece of rope, or prusik cord to tie your friction hitch of choice. This creates some separation between the two legs of your climbing support line and many feel it allows greater flexibility of movement and positioning. It also allows greater flexibility in your choice of hitches to imploy, some would be quite difficult if not impossible to tie with a "tail". Hope I explained that OK, not textbook, just off the top of my head and at this hour who knows how that transcends over the etherworld.


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## Blinky (Dec 17, 2006)

DDM said:


> split·tail /ˈsplɪtˌteɪl/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[split-teyl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
> –noun
> a minnow, Pogonichthys macrolepidotus, of the Sacramento River, having the upper lobe of the tail much longer than the lower lobe: habitat changes have greatly reduced its numbers.



Wise guy.  

I shoulda never made that 'witty discussion' comment. But, as long as we're at it... P. macrolepidotus doesn't have a hyphen in it's common name, that is, 'Splittail', or even a space for that matter.

So I'm wondering... WITH RESPECT TO DOUBLE ROPE CLIMBING RIGS, what is a split-tail. 

OY!


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## Blinky (Dec 17, 2006)

adkranger said:


> [...] Hope I explained that OK, not textbook, just off the top of my head and at this hour who knows how that transcends over the etherworld.



OK, that makes sense to me. Thanks.


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## Jim1NZ (Dec 18, 2006)

I use different prussics for different applications, but normally VT.


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## NickfromWI (Dec 18, 2006)

A DRT climbing system where the climbing line terminates at the climber, then a SEPERATE piece of cordage is used as the friction hitch is referred to as "split tail" climbing.

The piece of rope used to tie the hitch is also called "a split tail." Typically, when people are referring to a split tail (noun) they are talking about a 4-5' long piece of rope of same diameter as the host climbing line, usually with one eye on one end and of the rope for connecting to the harness, and the tail used to tie the friction hitch such as a Blake's or a Tautline hitch, which are open climbing systems, where the tail of the friction hitch is not connected to anything.

I've heard some people use the term "split tail" to refer to the hitch cords used it closed climbing systems where the hitch cord has an eye on each end, and both eyes are connected to the carabiner that connects to the harness. Specifically, this type of split tail is made of an eye-to-eye cord, and eye-and-eye sling, or to some, simply a prusik.

And as I understand it, a prusik IS a knot. Specifically, it is a hitch...meaning a knot tied to a host object, be that a post, pilon, tree, fence post, door knob, or another piece of rope.

love
nick


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## treeseer (Dec 18, 2006)

tho Dan and Nick and Tom have showed me the VT etc., I rarely use them. I stick with Tautline most of the time. Creep is not an issue here. I still don't see a great advantage to the split-tail, though I hope that minnow bounces back.


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## emr (Dec 18, 2006)

As with many knots, the Martin can altered to fit the climber. I usually put 5 wraps and tuck the bottom one. As tenex gets worn, we found that adding a wrap is sometimes necessary. I have never climbed with 6 wraps, but a co-worker who usually starts out with 4 wraps ends up at 5 just before replacing tenex.


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## TheTreeSpyder (Dec 18, 2006)

i use a modified Sailor's Gripping Hitch; the last shown in this examination of the similarities of the base coil (4 uninterrupted turns = coil, 3 is Dbl. Round Turn, 2 is Round Turn, 1 is Turn) with a previous grab/ buffer of a differing type of half hitch mechanic (typically). VT/MT breaks the mold; with a preceding gauntlet of braids bending the host lifeline like a rappelling rack does; but to serve the same function i think, of a previous grab before the coil grab. A Tautline and Rolling Hitch/Midshipman's offer only a Round Turn; then a back-up to make RT work.

The Tautline and Blake's are 'open hitches" in that they only use 1 of the Equal/opposite ends of the hitching device/cord/tail to connect load to hitch in a 'linear' or more properly bent linear/ choke fashion; these should have stopper knots for live cargo. Most the other friction hitches we think of are 'closed hitches' using both ends of the hitching/cord to connect hitch to load(you); in a basket (though a leveraged/bent basket, not a straight legged one)type fashion (stronger).

i stay with the bottom 3 hitches pictured of this mostly self tending set, the last has evolved to the BackHand Hitch (muenter in yellow) finish shown, only more so; by the tail of the Backhand hitch reeving back down the the RT of the other leg. Kinda persnickity, must get good coil on top; great, responsive self tender IMLHO. 

That is for my lifeline; that i figured ye asked about. As a lanyard adjuster (instead of my microscender) i choose a Distel tied directly to sideD {Old VT setup shown for this}; with lanyard reeved thru; so that D is mount for hitch, and tends hitch too. Straight Frenchie for compression jigs piggy backed onto a rigging line(so easy a groundie can do it).

But then i prefer flat Tenex for lifeline friction hitch; and round cord as device for lanyard and rigging line; so whut do i no?








Notice how the Schwab has just the final Half Hitch reversed from Distel (after coil grab of each). Icicle very similar to Schwab; with 1 lil'flip difference that gives the self tending capacity. A TK similar to Knut; only the final Half Hitch of KNut is converted to a Marl in TK. If you slide a Half Hitch off a spar, it melts into nothing, a Marl slid off leaves more of an overhand knot in line.

Another Project


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## adkranger (Dec 18, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> The Martin looks real interesting. I'm going to give it a try and see how it compares to the vt. I do like how some tress cord knots hang on the climbing rope by themselves.



I like the looks of it too. I think I may have tried it w/o knowing exactly what it was.. Thanks for the picture. Will have to try it again while knowing what to call it.


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## JEff B (Dec 18, 2006)

Tried out the Martin today instead of my VT.... The martin surprised me, it was very smooth, even smoother then the VT. I used a 3/8 tenex eye an eye on velocity.... my new vote goes to the Martin


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## BostonBull (Dec 18, 2006)

JEff B said:


> Tried out the Martin today instead of my VT.... The martin surprised me, it was very smooth, even smoother then the VT. I used a 3/8 tenex eye an eye on velocity.... my new vote goes to the Martin




This is the Hitch I as trying to explain to you, with no visual demonstration, at our Grand Opening. Great isnt it? Sometimes you have to reach up with your thumb and flick the top wrap of the 4 coils, after it has been loaded and unloaded a few times.


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## ggttp (Dec 18, 2006)

*Martin*

How does the martin work with fair lead?


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## Ax-man (Dec 18, 2006)

Is Treeseer the only one that knows how to spell Tautline the way it is suppose to be spelled.


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## ggttp (Dec 18, 2006)

Ax-man said:


> Is Treeseer the only one that knows how to spell Tautline the way it is suppose to be spelled.



The best you can add to this thread is pointing out who spelled taut correctly. 

Thank you i feel better now knowing the correct spelling.


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## treeseer (Dec 18, 2006)

ggttp said:


> The best you can add to this thread is pointing out who spelled taut correctly.


Well, I've made my mark; time to put up the books and go fishing. 

Seriously Ax, MB used to call it a tauntline, someone else called it a taughtline. Both work for me; as long as we know what's meant, no need to critique. There may be some Freudianism going on with the misspelling too, because I thought mb was taunting those who taunted him for praising the knot, while once some simple-minded people are taught the tautline, they don't see the need to learn anything else.:jester: 

But the pictures are nice. opcorn:


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## Ax-man (Dec 18, 2006)

I've tried each and every hitch on this poll, to put it in a nutshell the only one that does not lock-up when loaded and will release on que is the VT and the many different ways it can be tied. PERIOD!!!! IMO !!!! The VT is the best hitch that has come unto the climbing scene all the others will basically get tight the longer they are worked on a rope, not so with a VT. The bridge on a VT never has to broken to get the top coils to loosen up so you can advance on it or descend on it. 

Is this a good enough contribution !!!!!


The author of the thread stated he got his hitches from the I.S.A. article authored by Marc Adams I am sure he didn't print taughtline.


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## Ax-man (Dec 18, 2006)

That is a GOOD play on words Treeseer, I like it:hmm3grin2orange: Ok I'll lighten up. It just bugs me though, when the word taughtline pertaining to the hitch is slaughtered like that, taunt I can handle. The purpose of the hitch is to hold hold the host rope taut or tight ( guessing on this one) not taught as if to teach the rope to stay taut.


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## Blinky (Dec 18, 2006)

Ax-man said:


> [...]
> The author of the thread stated he got his hitches from the I.S.A. article authored by Marc Adams I am sure he didn't print taughtline.



You are correct, Mark Adams (that's how the article prints his name anyway), spelled it tautline. We can all sleep better now knowing the proper way to spell tautline. Please except my humble apology for offending your spelling sensibilities.


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## treeseer (Dec 19, 2006)

Blinky said:


> You are correct, Mark Adams (that's how the article prints his name anyway),


To be even more accurate, Mark spells his name Mahk sometimes and says it that way too. Even though he's in Atlanta he still talks like he's in Boston.

Chip I hope you get a minute to send those pics this morning--mistletoe and soil and client shots. Also those strange bark growths on the tuliptree would be a good thread--maybe someone has a better guess than we did.


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## RedlineIt (Dec 19, 2006)

Was taught the tautline when the tautline was all there was to teach.

Then came the split-tail, a revelation!

Then the Blake's, an nonunraveling revelation. (Still backed it up with a stopper, some good habits are hard to break.)

But it's the VT for me, 3 over: 3 braids, once you dial it in, it's flawless on release, never fails to catch.

The only spot it's not my fave it a long body thrust, well advised to footlock(pantin) instead.

About the only thing I don't like about the Valdotaine Tresse is that it's name sounds like something a hairdresser ought to be doing.

Which is why we all just call it the VT.


RedlineIt


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## woodchux (Dec 19, 2006)

I like the Blakes. I'm gonna try the martin, how does it perform with 1/2" on 1/2" ropes?


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Dec 20, 2006)

Ax-man said:


> I've tried each and every hitch on this poll, to put it in a nutshell the only one that does not lock-up when loaded and will release on que is the VT and the many different ways it can be tied. PERIOD!!!! IMO !!!! The VT is the best hitch that has come unto the climbing scene all the others will basically get tight the longer they are worked on a rope, not so with a VT. The bridge on a VT never has to broken to get the top coils to loosen up so you can advance on it or descend on it.
> 
> Is this a good enough contribution !!!!!


It's about time you made some kind of contribution to this site. Heehehe...

I agree for the most part. I tried the martin hitch and found it to behave exactly like the distal and other hitches mentioned. The advantage is you can tie it so there is a short throw and there's no need to tune it, the disadvantage is it locks up pretty tight so it's hard to pull slack through the fair lead.
Axe, have you tried a regular old prussic? Take 6 or 7 wraps and then bring the tail down over the wraps and attach it back to the biner.


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## ROLLACOSTA (Dec 20, 2006)

now i'm getting paranoid,i'm the only vote for Prusik....


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## Ax-man (Dec 20, 2006)

Mike Maas said:


> Axe, have you tried a regular old prussic? Take 6 or 7 wraps and then bring the tail down over the wraps and attach it back to the biner.



No, I haven't, thought about it but have never gotten around to it. It would be like adding a coil or two to a VT but no braids, that right??

Are you onto something that your not sharing? like maybe were on the threshold of a new knot that is going to be called the M&M climbing hitch.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Dec 20, 2006)

It's not my hitch, it's just a prussic hitch, they've been around since a few years after ropes were invented. I noticed a picture of Mark Chisolm (sp) using it during a competition he won a few years back, and thought I'd give it a run. It works well. Very much like a VT, with shorter legs, and easier to tune. 
And your discriptions are correct, VT with just loops and no crosses.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Dec 20, 2006)

ROLLACOSTA said:


> now i'm getting paranoid,i'm the only vote for Prusik....


Don't sweat it roller, it's a great hitch.


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## GASoline71 (Dec 20, 2006)

046 said:


> blakes with a split tail for me..



X2... same here.

Edit: I just realized I voted for just "Blake's", but I guess I shoulda voted "Martin's", since I climb on a split-tail. 

Gary


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## (WLL) (Dec 21, 2006)

*martin*

just tried today i like better than distel


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## BostonBull (Dec 21, 2006)

(WLL) said:


> just tried today i like better than distel




Great hitch huh?? My favorite. Rememebr at the inventors request he wnats it to be called a Michoacan, he is a very shy person and doesnt want anything named after him.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Dec 21, 2006)

(WLL) said:


> just tried today i like better than distel


Why did you make the legs so long?


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## JonnyHart (Dec 21, 2006)

Icicle hitch here.


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## SteveBullman (Dec 22, 2006)

mike you got a pic of that prussik type knot?


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## Tree Machine (Dec 22, 2006)

TreeCo, you're a knucklehead. What are you feeding us?


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## chamuco (Dec 25, 2006)

hi


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## (WLL) (Dec 25, 2006)

*welcome to a/s*



chamuco said:


> hi


walk softly but carry a big stick:rockn:


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## Tree Machine (Dec 26, 2006)

Welcome, Chamuco!

What do you think of TreeCo's six wrap prussik?


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## ROLLACOSTA (Dec 27, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> Seven wrap prussic.




I like the look of that knot..


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## SteveBullman (Dec 27, 2006)

thats a v.t lee
same as i use


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## ROLLACOSTA (Dec 27, 2006)

doesn't look as complicated as your though Steve??


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## Tree Machine (Dec 27, 2006)

So TreeCo is a _certified_ knucklehead, yes?


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## SteveBullman (Dec 27, 2006)

its the same knot lee, if anything i take a wrap less up top


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## TheTreeSpyder (Dec 27, 2006)

Awwwwwwwwwe; give'him a break;
he maid his point.

After all it ain't like it's Maas or something!:hmm3grin2orange:


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Dec 27, 2006)

To properly tie a knot or hitch there are three steps, tie, dress, set. 
I tried to teach Spyder this, but he continues to tie his scafold knots wrong. He ties and sets, but forgets to dress. He tried to explain to me once why he ties them wrong, but I didn't understand, something about leverage... 

Anyway, TreeCo's prussic is not dressed quite the way I like it so it becomes sort of a VT, only the crosses don't go over and under. A proper VT goes over and under, the top rope does not stay on top.
This is what a properly tied, dressed, and set, five wrap prussic looks like, or at least that's what I call it.


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## Ax-man (Dec 27, 2006)

How does that hitch perform Mike ??? Have you tried the hitch with any other cord besides that UltraTech. Think we can get TreeSeer to try this one out, it is easy enough to tie .

Larry


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## Tree Machine (Dec 29, 2006)

....and this would be the definitive VT?





Hmmm....


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## Tree Machine (Dec 29, 2006)

The two pics show that fine point of what Mike says. The 'top' braid (the one coming off the top and going down vertically) comes around back and wraps tight against the climbing line. The other braid comes around back and presses against the 'top' braid, causing the climbing line to do a slight sigmoid (mild 's' or a slight curve in an otherwise straight line), but this little nuance is really the high point of whether you have a top-performing VT or a 'sort of a VT'.

Good one, Mike.


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## Tree Machine (Dec 29, 2006)

That's a new one on me.

I'll give it a spin on 11 mm single line and see if it has a chance of becoming something more than a backup hitch.

Who introduced that, TreeCo?


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## OTG BOSTON (Jan 8, 2007)

*Hey Bull*



BostonBull said:


> I voted for the Martin. Martin Morales invented this knot. He is a Teacher for Arbormaster and from Mexico. It isnt a blakes on a split tail it is a blakes hitch on an eye-eye prussic, except you only come under one wrap not two.
> 
> It is also not called the Martin its called the Michoacan, after the city where he lived in Mexico.



How long should the cord be for tying this knot??? I just got some icetail and bailout. I'm looking to advance beyound my tenex schwabish.


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## moss (Jan 8, 2007)

OTG BOSTON said:


> How long should the cord be for tying this knot (Martin)??? I just got some icetail and bailout. I'm looking to advance beyound my tenex schwabish.





Check out this PDF, Martin on page 4:
Son of a Hitch

I tie it and try it first before cutting the final cord length. Leave plenty of extra on one side of the hitch, climb on it a little and then make a decision on the final length after you've made adjustments. You may end up needing one length for your 1/2" and another for your 11mm rope.
-moss


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## OTG BOSTON (Jan 9, 2007)

*thanks*

Thanks AJ, great advice as always. Would you like to try some of this icetail or bailout?? I've got plenty.


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## FSburt (Jan 10, 2007)

*Just tried out the Mihocan AkA Martin*

Just tried out this knot this weekend and it works very well. I was climbing on a distel before but this knot does not lock on the rope at all so slack tending is so nice now.


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## moray (Jan 11, 2007)

Thanks to this poll, and various posts on this topic, I may well change to the Martin aka Michoacan. I gave it a fairly tough test a few days ago, climbing to a pulley 50 feet up, then descending, and then climbing again from the bottom using hip thrust. My split tail was made of 3/8 sling-grade tenex. Even after the long descent, where the knot was doing all the work, the knot freed up instantly when I started to ascend again.

I did discover that it is less forgiving than the Schwabish that I had been using for the last 8 months or so. The Schwabish will work almost no matter how badly you tie it. The Martin, in my hands anyway, needed to be set quite tightly or it would slip on my Arbormaster. I ended up using a 5-wrap Martin, tightly set, and found it superior to the 5-wrap Schwabish that I had been used to. Both are far better than a Blake's made of climbing rope IMHO.


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## dc59222 (Jan 11, 2007)

I climb on a Blakes. I was taught the Blakes and the Taughtline when I started but I rarely tie the Taughtline anymore. The Michoagan looks really interesting and I may try that. Anyone recomend a splittail brand and diameter that will work well on Safety Blue?


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## Fireaxman (Jan 11, 2007)

Ax-man said:


> ...The VT is the best hitch that has come unto the climbing scene all the others will basically get tight the longer they are worked on a rope, not so with a VT. The bridge on a VT never has to broken to get the top coils to loosen up so you can advance on it or descend on it.
> 
> ...



Ax-man, I owe you for helping me get going on the VT last February, but I had to vote for the Martin after my last 2 days work. The advantage of the Martin is that it is shorter, more compact. Therefor less slack to take out when you set down on it. Tied with 3/8 Stay Set on 1/2" Yale Spearmint and Arbormaster Blue Streak I've been working the Martin for 2 days on Loblollies at 75 to 100 feet and it has shown no inclination to get tight on me.

I do think the VT gets higher marks for "Self Tending", but I just hate to lose that extra few inches when I set back on it. And because there is less slack, the Martin just feels more secure.

I would like to say the high vote for the Blakes indicates to me there are a lot of people who have not tried the so-called "Advanced" hitches. I learned on a Taughtline and thought the Blakes was a great improvement. But when I started making these long climbs on the clear stemed pines after Katrina I knew I needed something better. As of yesterday, it looks like that means Martin.


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## (WLL) (Jan 12, 2007)

if u like the martin u will love the icecicle!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## emr (Jan 12, 2007)

What is the icecicle? I hope I didnt miss something obvious.


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## (WLL) (Jan 12, 2007)

emr said:


> What is the icecicle? I hope I didnt miss something obvious.


 it is another great slack tending friction hitch. i hope tree spider sees this because he can tell u a lot more and even post picts i say it is like the blakes comparred to the tautline as the icecilce is 2 the martin


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## (WLL) (Jan 12, 2007)

send a pm to the treespider and ask him. he is very helpfull and detailed


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## Treeman67 (Jan 12, 2007)

*taugthline vs. Blake*

i was wondering, how well Blake works compared Taughline. Taughline is easy to tied up into life line but with Blake hitch, i notice some guy had to make sure Blake hitch tied correctly to avoid slippage. but easier to rope climbed vs.Taughline intend to bind up hard knots , difficult to loosed it up. i hated to fight to get up into tree when knot started had some plm, i've been used Taughtline since 1988 and never change or explored different climbing knot. i wanted tried Blake but i need a option and suggestion before i used it.

Treeman67


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## beowulf343 (Jan 12, 2007)

The Blake's is a much better hitch than the tautline imo. Like you, I started with the tautline and like you I had the same problems with it binding up. But it is a good knot and it never let me down. Then a buddy showed me the Blake's. It's like night and day. Still dependable, easy to tie, but doesn't bind up. Also had concerns about not tying it right but I practiced it on the ground every morning for quite a long time just to make sure it was right. Then just used it in a split-tail system as a lanyard and would switch to a tautline to tie in. Now it is all I use and I still like it. Granted, can't be tied one-handed like the tautline but is still very simple whether off your snap or on a split tail. (Oh, and that description of the Martin in the poll is a little misleading-I use a Blake's on a split tail but it definitely is not the Martin.) I've tried most of the advanced hitches but still like and use the Blake's daily.

WLL, what happened? A couple weeks ago you were saying the Martin was the best friction knot out there. Now suddenly you are on the Icecicle bandwagon?


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## (WLL) (Jan 12, 2007)

*the change will do u good*



Treeman67 said:


> i was wondering, how well Blake works compared Taughline. Taughline is easy to tied up into life line but with Blake hitch, i notice some guy had to make sure Blake hitch tied correctly to avoid slippage. but easier to rope climbed vs.Taughline intend to bind up hard knots , difficult to loosed it up. i hated to fight to get up into tree when knot started had some plm, i've been used Taughtline since 1988 and never change or explored different climbing knot. i wanted tried Blake but i need a option and suggestion before i used it.
> 
> Treeman67



the blakes is by far better then the taughtline. its not hard 2 tie and any knot tied wrong is just asking 4 trouble. just remember when u start tieing take the bridge and start behind the rope. if u start and go over the rope with the bridge it will slip or run. other than that i think it is easer to tie and is much more climber friendly. i hate the tightline/tautline and if that was the only option id a quit climbing. so go ahead and make the switch and u will be very happy.


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## (WLL) (Jan 12, 2007)

beowulf343 said:


> The Blake's is a much better hitch than the tautline imo. Like you, I started with the tautline and like you I had the same problems with it binding up. But it is a good knot and it never let me down. Then a buddy showed me the Blake's. It's like night and day. Still dependable, easy to tie, but doesn't bind up. Also had concerns about not tying it right but I practiced it on the ground every morning for quite a long time just to make sure it was right. Then just used it in a split-tail system as a lanyard and would switch to a tautline to tie in. Now it is all I use and I still like it. Granted, can't be tied one-handed like the tautline but is still very simple whether off your snap or on a split tail. (Oh, and that description of the Martin in the poll is a little misleading-I use a Blake's on a split tail but it definitely is not the Martin.) I've tried most of the advanced hitches but still like and use the Blake's daily.
> 
> WLL, what happened? A couple weeks ago you were saying the Martin was the best friction knot out there. Now suddenly you are on the Icecicle bandwagon?



i still have a little trouble with the martin binding its not as bad as the distel but the icecicle is far Superior to the martin. im always changing and looking to improve whenever possible un like a lot of people i have a very open mind and enjoy changing 4 the better i said its the best ive tried yet and if you think u know everything than you will never learn anything. LMFAO. are u still tring to find top climbers at min wage?


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## (WLL) (Jan 12, 2007)

*hellow mr treespider*

im amazed with your Superior intellect:rockn:


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## beowulf343 (Jan 12, 2007)

(WLL) said:


> just remember when u start tieing take the bridge and start behind the rope. if u start and go over the rope with the bridge it will slip or run.



What? I take the bridge and start in front of the standing part then go around behind the rope.


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## (WLL) (Jan 12, 2007)

beowulf343 said:


> What? I take the bridge and start in front of the standing part then go around behind the rope.



i think a good sig 4 u wood be cant teach this old dog new tricks

only 4 u buddy:bang:


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## (WLL) (Jan 12, 2007)

beowulf343 said:


> What? I take the bridge and start in front of the standing part then go around behind the rope.



with all that weight it be hard 4 u to get any knot to run LMFAO:hmm3grin2orange: 

its the fear that keeps me safe!!!! no fear no brains:monkey:


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## beowulf343 (Jan 12, 2007)

(WLL) said:


> are u still tring to find top climbers at min wage?


Must have me confused with someone else. I don't do the hiring for my company. I'm just a simple climber.


(WLL) said:


> i think a good sig 4 u wood be cant teach this old dog new tricks


At least this old dog can do his old tricks properly. It worries me a bit that you can't start the Blake's correctly. But maybe I just misunderstood what you were trying to say.


(WLL) said:


> its the fear that keeps me safe!!!! no fear no brains:monkey:


I've explained my sig line to you once before but I'll try again. A person once asked me after I finished a job if I had no fear. I replied that no, fear is what keeps me from doing something stupid-fear is what keeps me safe.
I agree with you that having no fear is not a good thing. But if you can't understand my sig line, I'll stop using it. I wouldn't want new climbers reading it and jumping to the wrong conclusion. Thank you for reminding me of the poor job our schools seem to be doing these days. Sincerely, Andy.


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## (WLL) (Jan 12, 2007)

beowulf343 said:


> Must have me confused with someone else. I don't do the hiring for my company. I'm just a simple climber.
> 
> At least this old dog can do his old tricks properly. It worries me a bit that you can't start the Blake's correctly. But maybe I just misunderstood what you were trying to say.
> 
> ...


in my life it was not the school but more the student. i dont think any new climbers will want to get any thing from your posts anyway because there not educational and more like spam and a bunch of meaningless comments. u r right we spoke before and i realized we are on a completely different book. i use AS is a learning sight nothing more. i think u have major short term memory loss of just full o chit. maby u should apply at wesspur as the people over there are all to common. u know what im saying! are ya still working 4 spikes tree CARE pruning apples & dogwoods? do me a huge favior and stop talking to me as i only learned 1 thing from u and i rather not say. besides if u aint got nothing nice to say dont say it at all. you only pi$$ me off with any of your comments and seem 2 like putting words in my mouth and sticking your mouth where it dont need 2 b.the first thing u said to me on AS was i need 2 invest in some good equipment/tools/hooks. u got no clue
so please if u are any kind a decent fella just leave me alone! thanx WLL


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## TheTreeSpyder (Jan 12, 2007)

A Split Tail is when you use a separate section of line/cord for your Friction Hitch. A Blake's or a Tautline can use a Split Tail. This makes it easier to reset TIP and gives a disposable/wearable piece of line, that doesn't shorten lifeline when you need a fresh Friction Hitch section etc.

A Martin and most the other hitches are Split Tails plus, you use both ends of the Split Tail in a Basket type (in sling language) attachment as opposed to the more linear/choke/ single leg attachment of the Blake's and Tautline. Another way to look at it is the Blake's and Tautline are 'open' type designs with a free end that should always have a stopper knot in it. A Tautline is decidely rotational, and can walk off the job without a stopper. A Blakes's really shouldn't walk out; as it is like an advanced Anchor Hitch/Bend standing on it's own bootstrap, but with even more Turns than Anchor, to reduce pull on the Bitters/tail even more, to be even less likely of coming out; but good sense, and the rules dictate a stopper on any 'open' hitch configuration that your life is depending on. The other hitches use both ends and are more of a 'closed' configuration.

A Blake's tied wrong is a Sui-Slide (from MTL). When tying Blake's; Watch where you place the Bitter End/Tail at finish; in comparison to the Standing End /start of the Hitch. Observe the rotation that the Standing Part/ start pulls in; see if you place the Bitters/ end on the wrong side of the climbing line the rotation of the Standing Part/ start of Blake's can pull the Bitters/end tighter /closed or looser/open!! Under this observation, logic should tell you which way is SuiSlide and which is lifesaving Blake's!

A Distel and Schwab are virtually same; a Coil (4 uninterrupted Turns); that the top leg of the Coil serves under the Coil and makes a Half Hitch preceder (to the loading; of your bodyweight underneath). In Distel the Half Hitch continues in same direction as other Turns; like a Clove and Tautline; giving the same slanted Z type 'bar' as the over wrap and like these the ends feed out opposite sides. In Schwab, this final Hitch/ Turn is jsut reversed of the others; like a Cow/Prussik/Girth; and the same as these; gives a stragiht type 'bar' overwrap; and the ends feed out the same side (making it 'neater' for some applications). Both are not self tending.

An Icicle  most resembles a Sailor's Gripping Hitch by mechanichs; and both are self tending designs. But, an Icicle is vedddy close to a Schwab in how you make it. Notice how the Icicle has the same Coil, straight bar and the ends feed out the same side (as pictured in 1st page of this thread). Make a Coil (4 uninterrupted turns) around the host/mount/lifeline and bring the top leg down like to make Schwab to bottom of Coil, and roll that end up under that leg to make a loop, so that loop is on top of lifeline and both ends of the cord are together on top of lifeline under Coil, then bring both ends around behind lifleine and thru that loop. Kind of the same Half Hitch finish only not around lifeline, but around the ends (after you reeve them thru). But now, the hitch is self tending(fairly).

i prefer Icicle, Sailor's Gripping and my adaptation in flat Tenex as cord device, rather than a round cord device because it is less leveraged and has a broader gripping footprint on the host lifeline mount of the hitch.

A TK is jsut like a Knut; only where a Knut has a Half Hitch/loop finish, the TK has a Marl/Overhand finish. These are both of the selftending class; that buffer loading to both ends of the Coil and have a stiff 'ring' as tender at Coil base.

Some Animations

Orrrrrrrrrrrr something like that......
OOOooops hear come the post length police again!:taped:


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## emr (Jan 12, 2007)

TreeSpyder...Have you ever used the icecicle with Bee-line? I haver really noticed how different knots act diffenetly with different cord/split-tails. I like the looks of that knot...very interesting.


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## (WLL) (Jan 12, 2007)

TheTreeSpyder said:


> A Split Tail is when you use a separate section of line/cord for your Friction Hitch. A Blake's or a Tautline can use a Split Tail. This makes it easier to reset TIP and gives a disposable/wearable piece of line, that doesn't shorten lifeline when you need a fresh Friction Hitch section etc.
> 
> A Martin and most the other hitches are Split Tails plus, you use both ends of the Split Tail in a Basket type (in sling language) attachment as opposed to the more linear/choke/ single leg attachment of the Blake's and Tautline. Another way to look at it is the Blake's and Tautline are 'open' type designs with a free end that should always have a stopper knot in it. A Tautline is decidely rotational, and can walk off the job without a stopper. A Blakes's really shouldn't walk out; as it is like an advanced Anchor Hitch/Bend standing on it's own bootstrap, but with even more Turns than Anchor, to reduce pull on the Bitters/tail even more, to be even less likely of coming out; but good sense, and the rules dictate a stopper on any 'open' hitch configuration that your life is depending on. The other hitches use both ends and are more of a 'closed' configuration.
> 
> ...



post length police. are u serious??? or is that a joke.


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## beowulf343 (Jan 13, 2007)

Well WLL, you've really opened my eyes. Sorry to have bothered you all. I'll leave this forum to the "pros."


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## Climb020 (Jan 13, 2007)

(WLL) said:


> in my life it was not the school but more the student. i dont think any new climbers will want to get any thing from your posts anyway because there not educational and more like spam and a bunch of meaningless comments. u r right we spoke before and i realized we are on a completely different book. i use AS is a learning sight nothing more. i think u have major short term memory loss of just full o chit. maby u should apply at wesspur as the people over there are all to common. u know what im saying! are ya still working 4 spikes tree CARE pruning apples & dogwoods? do me a huge favior and stop talking to me as i only learned 1 thing from u and i rather not say. besides if u aint got nothing nice to say dont say it at all. you only pi$$ me off with any of your comments and seem 2 like putting words in my mouth and sticking your mouth where it dont need 2 b.the first thing u said to me on AS was i need 2 invest in some good equipment/tools/hooks. u got no clue
> so please if u are any kind a decent fella just leave me alone! thanx WLL



Funny you seem to be the only one spamming with your one liners. You can have whatever for you like to learn from, but still doesn't change the fast that noone likes you any where. Oh and did you get my PM from the other place??? And beowolf go ahead a leave him alone. He can all the equipement he needs, a line mans belt, his spikes and his little echo. Gotta let the little boys play grown-up every now and then. And if you don't like how long spyde's posts well here a tip don't read them. It would only confuse you if you where even able to comprehend them.


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## rahtreelimbs (Jan 13, 2007)

beowulf343 said:


> Well WLL, you've really opened my eyes. Sorry to have bothered you all. I'll leave this forum to the "pros."




Hey dude, hang around a while!!!

I.....for one......like to here what you have to say!!!


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Jan 13, 2007)

TreeCo said:


> And then there is the even better performing 'sort of' VT called the XT.
> (yes, you are seeing two twist between braids)


I found you can eliminate the lower twists and replace them with a micro-pulley. This shortens up the throw.

I have a job for spyder or someone else interested in doing a good comparison of hitches. 
Tie each one and weight it with a couple hundred pounds, then test each hitch for three performance features, how many pounds to break it loose, how long the throw is, and a subjective rating of how smoothly it runs with a full load.
Of course you'll have to do the experiment with a few different cords.
Then catalog the results in a nice chart.


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## rahtreelimbs (Jan 13, 2007)

TheTreeSpyder said:


> A Split Tail is when you use a separate section of line/cord for your Friction Hitch. A Blake's or a Tautline can use a Split Tail. This makes it easier to reset TIP and gives a disposable/wearable piece of line, that doesn't shorten lifeline when you need a fresh Friction Hitch section etc.
> 
> A Martin and most the other hitches are Split Tails plus, you use both ends of the Split Tail in a Basket type (in sling language) attachment as opposed to the more linear/choke/ single leg attachment of the Blake's and Tautline. Another way to look at it is the Blake's and Tautline are 'open' type designs with a free end that should always have a stopper knot in it. A Tautline is decidely rotational, and can walk off the job without a stopper. A Blakes's really shouldn't walk out; as it is like an advanced Anchor Hitch/Bend standing on it's own bootstrap, but with even more Turns than Anchor, to reduce pull on the Bitters/tail even more, to be even less likely of coming out; but good sense, and the rules dictate a stopper on any 'open' hitch configuration that your life is depending on. The other hitches use both ends and are more of a 'closed' configuration.
> 
> ...





(WLL) said:


> post length police. are u serious??? or is that a joke.




Spydee's been around here for quite some some and you are the only one that has a problem with his post lengths.............ahh............OK


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## BoesTreeService (Jan 13, 2007)

*A vote for Blakes but...*

I use a Blakes hitch tied with a single eyed split tail (aka prusik)

From my experiences with rope rescue terminology in the fire service, I have heard the term prusik used both as the name of the small sections of rope use to tie friction hitches and for the knots themselves. Seems as though they are interchangeable.

I like the easy controlled descent rendered by the Blakes (I can descend with the pressure of one finger on my running end) I think I would be interested if anyone thinks they have a knot that has that kind of control but also might lend itself to easier ascention, which is a drawback of a blakes hitch in my opinion.


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## TheTreeSpyder (Jan 13, 2007)

Mike Maas said:


> I have a job for spyder or someone else interested in doing a good comparison of hitches.
> Tie each one and weight it with a couple hundred pounds, then test each hitch for three performance features, how many pounds to break it loose, how long the throw is, and a subjective rating of how smoothly it runs with a full load.
> Of course you'll have to do the experiment with a few different cords.
> Then catalog the results in a nice chart.




Our brutha Paola/Lazarus/TreeMettlenexus has already, graciously performed this service i believe; an i depth study with governmeant funding. i had 2 more, but they have been taken down/ dead links/ can't google/ wayback machine is fumbling too. Shoulda/coulda/woulda stole them fer the vault if i thought that was how it'd go; crossing all borders to save a life!! 

HSE

Another; less intense

Materials tests


But, we are close to getting caught up in the macho/ tensile only view with blinders on once again. Some slip, stretch etc. can be good in certain ranges to dissipate harmful force etc. Do you want hitch to hold with such suddenness as to tear you in 2; rip spleen etc. Or is at such high force some slip allowable to dissipate steam/ high force from system? Then, we are mostly into closed/2 leg/basket style hitches now; must they hold to lifeline beyond other connections? etc.

Also, we assume everything is new in these tests; but in field we deal with CTF(Cycles to Failure); and degeneration of glazing etc.


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## Ax-man (Jan 13, 2007)

Fireaxman,

I am glad you settled on a hitch you feel comfortable with, I know you were having quite a time searching for the right one that suits your climbing needs. I wouldn't give up on a VT, the first time I tried it I about fell out of the tree I was in and swore I would never use that hitch, but I got brave and tried it again only this time with a different cord. Big difference. I abandoned the VT for awhile thinking there was something better just around the corner, but instead I found myself coming back to a VT.

What I meant about other hitches getting tight after a period of time is that as the cord breaks in and loses that outer abrasion coating the more they grip the rope and bind inwardly in the hitch itself. This is not so much a bad thing but can get a little annoying, I myself have not had this problem with a VT with any cord I have tried, no matter how much time is put on the cord.

The worst offender of this for me was the Swabish hitch, it was a great hitch when it was introduced, I thought it couldn't get any better than a Swabish, but as time went on and the cord I was using at the time just kept getting tighter and tighter on my climbing line and would not advance unless I undid the bridge and loosened the coils, like I had to do with Tautline and a Blakes. So where is the gain in using an advanced hitch if it starts to behave like an old school hitch.

A little trick I use when climbing with a VT is that after you have taken up your slack is to put your hand above the hitch, with a quick forward motion set the hitch this way instead of just using your weight by settling back in the saddle with one hand on the hitch and letting go. This set the hitch motion is very similar to jamming the tail to set the brake of an open hitch like a Tautline , Blakes, open Prussik, 

Larry


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## 046 (Jan 13, 2007)

currently using a blakes... I'm amazed at number of people using VT.

maybe I should give it a try. already using distal on my DEDA lanyard.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Jan 13, 2007)

TheTreeSpyder said:


> Our brutha Paola/Lazarus/TreeMettlenexus has already, graciously performed this service i believe; an i depth study with governmeant funding. i had 2 more, but they have been taken down/ dead links/ can't google/ wayback machine is fumbling too. Shoulda/coulda/woulda stole them fer the vault if i thought that was how it'd go; crossing all borders to save a life!!
> 
> HSE
> 
> ...



I think you misunderstood what information I was looking to compile. Not breaking strength, but hitch usability. How much effort it takes to advance each hitch.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Jan 13, 2007)

046 said:


> currently using a blakes... I'm amazed at number of people using VT.
> 
> maybe I should give it a try. already using distal on my DEDA lanyard.



Do you guys that use a blake's also use a fair lead pulley for one handed rope advancement?


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## 046 (Jan 13, 2007)

thanks for the links... looks like blakes came out ahead in HSE tests..
also confirmed double fisherman is a safe way to join two ropes together. 



TheTreeSpyder said:


> Our brutha Paola/Lazarus/TreeMettlenexus has already, graciously performed this service i believe; an i depth study with governmeant funding. i had 2 more, but they have been taken down/ dead links/ can't google/ wayback machine is fumbling too. Shoulda/coulda/woulda stole them fer the vault if i thought that was how it'd go; crossing all borders to save a life!!
> 
> HSE
> 
> ...


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## TheTreeSpyder (Jan 14, 2007)

OOOOps sorry Mike i did kinda jump the gun and not read well there!

As to further testing; lots of variables in style, lines, wear, how tightly cinched etc.

As to the (un)rest of some of it; i don't see any (t)reason why any should beat up on each other;
accept MM and i.


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## gitrdun_climbr (Jan 15, 2007)

*blakes here...willing to try something new tho*

046 I'm with you once again, I'm still using Blake's hitch but interested in all this talk about VTs and other 'advanced' hitches...especially if they make working the tree easier. Yes MM, I do fair lead with micro pulley for one-handed slack tending on the Blakes. Is the general concept of the VT that it produces less friction making an easier ascent? I mean Blakes is awfully simple and smooth on the descent.

Has anyone fooled with a self-advancing Blakes using an adjustable bridge (prusik) from working end of climbing line to micro pulley under Blakes?


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## gitrdun_climbr (Jan 15, 2007)

*best vt cordage for arbormaster climbing line?*

Hoping someone can save me some 'experimental' time. I'm interested in trying out the VT and all my climbing line is Arbormaster. Does one cord or another work best on it? Thanks in advance.


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## emr (Jan 15, 2007)

I have been a big fan of Tenex. We just got some bee-line...so far so good.


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## Ax-man (Jan 16, 2007)

gitrdun_climbr said:


> Hoping someone can save me some 'experimental' time. I'm interested in trying out the VT and all my climbing line is Arbormaster. Does one cord or another work best on it? Thanks in advance.



I use ArborMaster rope, I have found Samson cords to work the the best on these ropes. Ultra -Tech works good but is almost impossible to cut, self made cords with the fisherman knots work better than the spliced one you can buy, Samson's equivilent to Sta-Set is their 3/8th's Stable Braid I have liked this one the best on my Blue Streak (ArborMaster) rope, it is hard to find this cordage. I think Tennex is a Samson product also, been a long while since I have used it for a hitch cord, it does OK too only seems to get kind of wimpy after a while and seems to wear quick.

I am not a big Sta-Set fan myself, I haven't had all that good of luck with it on my Samson ropes , I have tried it on all 3 different types I have. Sta-Set is a good cord it, many climbers like it, I just haven't had all that good of luck with it is all. 

The one thing you have have to watch when you use a VT as a hitch is the heat build up in the cord from too fast of a decent out of a tree. No cord will be any good for any length of time if you allow the cord to build up heat on the way down. 

Hope this helps a little

Larry


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## OTG BOSTON (Jan 16, 2007)

*hooked on phonics*



(WLL) said:


> in my life it was not the school but more the student. i dont think any new climbers will want to get any thing from your posts anyway because there not educational and more like spam and a bunch of meaningless comments. u r right we spoke before and i realized we are on a completely different book. i use AS is a learning sight nothing more. i think u have major short term memory loss of just full o chit. maby u should apply at wesspur as the people over there are all to common. u know what im saying! are ya still working 4 spikes tree CARE pruning apples & dogwoods? do me a huge favior and stop talking to me as i only learned 1 thing from u and i rather not say. besides if u aint got nothing nice to say dont say it at all. you only pi$$ me off with any of your comments and seem 2 like putting words in my mouth and sticking your mouth where it dont need 2 b.the first thing u said to me on AS was i need 2 invest in some good equipment/tools/hooks. u got no clue
> so please if u are any kind a decent fella just leave me alone! thanx WLL



Hooked on phonics.............. worked for me!


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Jan 16, 2007)

Any cord will work, as long as it's strong enough. I like 5/16" but a lot of guys use 3/8".
If you climb on a cambium saver, the will be a lot more weight on your hitch, almost twice as much as without one, so you'll eat up cords faster. In this case I'd suggest some Bee-line or HRC.
Personally, I like the Ultra-tech. It has a technora core with a polyester cover. What I like is the cover seems thicker and stiffer than Sta-set or other double braids I have tried. 
Cords with a softer lay seem to lock up more than I like.


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## gitrdun_climbr (Jan 16, 2007)

*Good info!*

I appreciate everyones experience/knowledge/input...very valuable information! I'm kind of excited to 'improve' on my climbing system. One more question: is the VT effective when choking around conifer spar as backup lanyard? Split tail w/Blakes seems so good at this because the bridge can be way shortened.


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## Ax-man (Jan 16, 2007)

The VT works fine for me when using it as a second tie in, a Blakes will let you get in a little closer but if you need to get in that close your sacrificing working space to manage a chainsaw safely.

Larry


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## trimwizard (Feb 10, 2007)

Treeman67 said:


> i was wondering, how well Blake works compared Taughline. .
> 
> Treeman67



I climb with a blake's (w/stop knot). on a split tail. I've tried the tautline once on a rainy day and never again! Thought I was going to have to cut my climb line to get out of the tree.:jawdrop: :jawdrop:


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## newguy18 (Aug 7, 2007)

I like the tautlin hitch and my rope is so cheap that i just tail tie.Besides I tried split tail once and forgot it was a seperate piece of rope.Tailtied for me.


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## Spockbob (Aug 7, 2007)

I started using a 2 over 2 tautline when we only had triplex. i do all climbing with 1/2 in rope. I still use it on braided rope, but some are over 1/2 inch and I use 3 over 2.


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## Scots Climber (Jan 24, 2008)

I use a Blakes hitch and or a Prusik hitch. I often use a Prusik in a "Texas Kick" configuration for my feet if I have a long ascent to do.


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## Carter Simmons (Jul 28, 2014)

I prefer a blakes hitch because it is easily reversable. The only problem is it melts through my rope so i use a rapelling device to get down.


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