# Clearing Land/Trees- Dozer?



## firecatf7333 (Nov 11, 2011)

I may be buying some property, total about 80 acres, some hardwoods, some fields, and some brush/thicket. I am going to build a house-myself with my dad-, and have a few questions. I am going to use most of the land for pasture, for either sheep or cows, haven't yet decided. If i buy the land, i figure a small dozer would be useful instead of paying someone else to do all the work. puting in a yard and site development for the house, along with the main reason in clearing a old apple orchard are the primary reasons for the dozer. What dozer would you reccomend in the $10-$15k range? I know to get an UC at least 70%. I posted a google maps link, you can see the old orachard south of CHAMPLAIN RD. My idea is to clear the entire orachard, and the small peice of woods that is between the old orachard and the 2 current crop fields, and make one large pasture. I would like to have the small woods clear cut and maybe i can get some $ out of that to cover some of the dozer cost. Also, what do you think is the best way to clear the orachard. If i only use it for pasture i geuss i don't have to get ride of stumps, but i would like to for a clean finish. it would be an older dozer, somthing like a D3, JD 450, komatsu d21, or w/e i can get in my price range. The base of these old apple trees is the size of a basketball, and they are around 10 feet tall. Could a small dozer push these trees over. Also, would it be worth cutting up the trees into firewood? Apple firewood goes for $75-$80 a face cord in my area. I have no idea how many face cord would be in that orachard, but i'd imagine over 100. Theres prolly over 10k in firewood there, but i'd imagine itd take a while to cut up, although alot of it wouldn't have to be split since the trees branches get smaller. 

thanks for the help



Google Maps


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## war-wagon (Nov 13, 2011)

Leave some of the orchard. Apple fed deer are mighty tasty. Hang onto the dozer when you're done too; you'll need it to plow the snow! Good luck on your project.


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## 2dogs (Nov 13, 2011)

If the ground is soft you may push the trees over but most of the time you risk breaking them off. Cut the trees and sell the wood. If you leave a high stump, say 30" or so, and then come back a year later you can push the stumps to loosen them or push them over or pull them out with a HEAVY chain.Use at least 1/2" grade 70. Better yet 5/8" alloy chain. Figure at least $100.00 for a decent piece chain 15'. Maybe twice that amount.

I don't have much faith in a D3, a little more in a JD450. I would bump up to a D4 with rippers. Never a bareback! You may even find an excavator to be more versatile than a dozer.

Forgot to add if you decide to farm sheep I need 2 lambs cut and wrapped each spring.


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## firecatf7333 (Nov 13, 2011)

Why do you like the JD 450 more than a D3? If my price range is 10-15k, i would think a decent D4 is out of my range. Can you find a decent excavator for 10-15k? I also will have a skid steer by then, most likely a Case 1845c or similar bobcat. It may be more logical for me to buy an excavator, since i will need to dig out for the basemant for my house. I also have a friend with a excavator who would prolly let me rent it for a few weeks for a decent price.


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## M.R. (Nov 13, 2011)

Track Loader w/4-in-1 bucket & a detachable backhoe for the rear. 9+ ton


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## Slamm (Nov 13, 2011)

I've got a Mustand MTL20 similiar to a Tach 140 or Gehl 70, about a 81hp compact track loader, and it can rip those smaller sized trees out with ease, plus it is so much handier than a little dozer. I've had mine up against a D4 Cat and it doesn't have all of the weight or grunt, but it is close and it is much, much faster. Just and idea.

I have post hole auger, big brush cutter, dirt bucket, grapple bucket, stump bucket, jib crane and a two stage forklift mast for mine. You can't do any of that with a dozer.

Sam


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## ropensaddle (Nov 13, 2011)

Apple orchard producing? Much time and resources where spent making that orchard. Now one thing about construction heavy equipment is not a trees friend. So if your thinking of dozing around the home place and leaving some nicer trees for shade great care needs implemented to ensure the trees being left are not damaged from this process. Equipment lays soil particles flat and compacts the soil everywhere the tracks go. Trees absorbing roots are in the upper twelve inches of soil and can be found a great deal past the canopy. Just something for you to think about! There are ways to get around this if interested.


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## bobt (Nov 14, 2011)

JD450 with a bucket,,,not a blade. Easily will dig your basement. I don't know how many basements I dug and backfilled with ours. Backhoe for the back would be nice for septic tank, water lines, etc. You certainly do NOT need an excavator to dig a basement.

With a track loader, digging a basement goes in three stages. First work from each end and doze as far as you can easily go across the ends of the hole. Then start making yourself ramps at each end and continue pushing the dirt out of the hole up the ramp. Then finally finish the basement by carrying bucket loads out of the hole up the ramps. Try to push almost all the dirt out, as carrying is much slower. A common basement hole say 36 by 60,,,,,,6 hours max with a JD450. If you are doing it yourself, time is of no concern.

Great for removing those small apples as well. Just pull up to the base of a tree, sink the teeth of the bucket down a couple of feet to cut the roots on your side of the tree, and raise the bucket up about three or four feet on the trunk and push it over. Just as slick as can be. Line the removed trees in a row, cut the firewood. The stumps go in one pile, and the tops in another to be burned.

The loader makes all the difference. Get yourself an old single axle dump truck, and you can do about any hauling you will need for your house.

Just get one with wet steering clutches, as the dry ones love to slip, and you have to adjust them often. If they need to be replaced, it is a major pain in the neck.

Bob


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## firecatf7333 (Nov 14, 2011)

I may be able to rent a good size Komatsu dozer (prolly around d5 size) for a decent price, and my grandpa could run it b/c he has years of experience running heavy equipment. Could a mini-excavator be used to dig out for a basement? Also, lets say i clear the land with a dozer, burn the piles, and then what do i do to turn it all into pasture? It will depend on sheep or cows, but either way i think i'll plant some type of hay, alpalfa, timothy, grass, etc. This would be over 50 acres. would i disc it, then plant? i don't have any experience planting fields. I have a few friends with tractors i could borrow.


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## ropensaddle (Nov 14, 2011)

firecatf7333 said:


> I may be able to rent a good size Komatsu dozer (prolly around d5 size) for a decent price, and my grandpa could run it b/c he has years of experience running heavy equipment. Could a mini-excavator be used to dig out for a basement? Also, lets say i clear the land with a dozer, burn the piles, and then what do i do to turn it all into pasture? It will depend on sheep or cows, but either way i think i'll plant some type of hay, alpalfa, timothy, grass, etc. This would be over 50 acres. would i disc it, then plant? i don't have any experience planting fields. I have a few friends with tractors i could borrow.



Before you do anything get the soil tested see what it needs for what you wish to plant.


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## ropensaddle (Nov 14, 2011)

If you plow then disk let the wild grasses sprout then hit them with round -up then after sufficient time disk again drag with harrow inoculate,seed and cultipack. Or hydroseed and straw seedless of course.


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## epicklein22 (Nov 14, 2011)

firecatf7333 said:


> I may be able to rent a good size Komatsu dozer (prolly around d5 size) for a decent price, and my grandpa could run it b/c he has years of experience running heavy equipment. Could a mini-excavator be used to dig out for a basement? Also, lets say i clear the land with a dozer, burn the piles, and then what do i do to turn it all into pasture? It will depend on sheep or cows, but either way i think i'll plant some type of hay, alpalfa, timothy, grass, etc. This would be over 50 acres. would i disc it, then plant? i don't have any experience planting fields. I have a few friends with tractors i could borrow.



I would find it hard for a mini to dig a basement, but they use them all the time for basement waterproofing. I think you need either a dozer or excavator, then rent the one you don't buy when ya need it.

As for the pasture/field, you will need to plow it first, maybe even two times, before you disc it. The disc's don't turn up hard ground worth a crap.


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## 2dogs (Nov 15, 2011)

ropensaddle said:


> Before you do anything get the soil tested see what it needs for what you wish to plant.



Great advice. If you are going to plant hay of any kind then along with a commercial fertilizer you will need weed control. Here in Cali even fast growing hay crops like red oats will be taken over by weeds like rattlesnake grass. Horses do not like RS grass and will throw their feed around trying to get rid of it. The result is waste. I would imagine there is a County Ag Department and an Adviser. Make friends with him and listen closely. Once your crop matures it will need to be "cut" and baled. You will need advice regarding your particulr crop. With red oats it has to reach the milk stage and has to lay a few days till it will twist 3 times before it breaks. Then it has to be bailed in the early morning. We don't have to bale at night or use steam.

If you are just going to pasture a few cows or maybe steers then go to the sale barns (livestock auctions) and hang around and ask questions. Tell them you are new to the game. Don't go asking advice about sheep farming to cattle rancher BTW! Find out where the local slaughter houses are and what kind of animals they process. Ask how to make a few more pennies per pound. Maybe you want to just fatten up a few registered steers. Maybe you want to go organic, that is no growth hormones or antibiotics. You may want to sell your steers or sides to your neighbors. You figure the price per pound and have the animal slaughtered and butchered on your property by a mobile service. Regardless of what you do you will need good perimeter and cross fencing and reliable water.


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## flushcut (Nov 15, 2011)

firecatf7333 said:


> I may be buying some property, total about 80 acres, some hardwoods, some fields, and some brush/thicket. I am going to build a house-myself with my dad-, and have a few questions. I am going to use most of the land for pasture, for either sheep or cows, haven't yet decided. If i buy the land, i figure a small dozer would be useful instead of paying someone else to do all the work. puting in a yard and site development for the house, along with the main reason in clearing a old apple orchard are the primary reasons for the dozer. What dozer would you reccomend in the $10-$15k range? I know to get an UC at least 70%. I posted a google maps link, you can see the old orachard south of CHAMPLAIN RD. My idea is to clear the entire orachard, and the small peice of woods that is between the old orachard and the 2 current crop fields, and make one large pasture. I would like to have the small woods clear cut and maybe i can get some $ out of that to cover some of the dozer cost. Also, what do you think is the best way to clear the orachard. If i only use it for pasture i geuss i don't have to get ride of stumps, but i would like to for a clean finish. it would be an older dozer, somthing like a D3, JD 450, komatsu d21, or w/e i can get in my price range. The base of these old apple trees is the size of a basketball, and they are around 10 feet tall. Could a small dozer push these trees over. Also, would it be worth cutting up the trees into firewood? Apple firewood goes for $75-$80 a face cord in my area. I have no idea how many face cord would be in that orachard, but i'd imagine over 100. Theres prolly over 10k in firewood there, but i'd imagine itd take a while to cut up, although alot of it wouldn't have to be split since the trees branches get smaller.
> 
> thanks for the help
> 
> ...



Processing over grown apple trees into fire wood might be a loosing battle. Your best bet if the trees are overgrown and nasty with no hope of pruning into nice production trees is to high stump them and chip them and sell the chips to a pellet mill. Then come in with a dozer with a root rake and scarify the land. If you just go in and push it all up into a pile God help you. If the trees are large and in good shape it would be better to cut them into firewood leaving high stumps for the dozer. 
As for the dozer tearing up the land go as big as you can afford or rent a biggin for the damage and buy a smaller JD, Kubota, Case, or New Holland 4WD tractor with a PTO in the rear for attachments and what not. Don't forget a skid steer as a viable option.


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## dingeryote (Nov 15, 2011)

Most of the Orchard guys here just clobber the trees with a skid loader, or tractor with a loader and single sub soiler on the back. They aren't hard to get out. 
Bust the roots on one side, and push. 
What you DON'T want to do is use a dozer and make a mess of the field with uneven spots and compressed soil to fight later.
Those trees are easy to cut once pushed out of the way, and burn nicely when piled.

+1 on Ropes advice. Get the soild tested, yak with the local Ag extension folks. Turn the top 12-16" and disk, then sterilize what comes up with Glyphosate at max label Rate.Then run the cultipacker in a hourglass pattern to further level out the little low spots and not make them worse. Plant what the extension and you work out. Letting the field Fallow for a second season and nuking a couple more times is even better, as some of the real nasty weeds like to lay low for two years. 

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## slowp (Nov 15, 2011)

Why is it that so many people don't want to have trees and woods on their property? Just wondering..
I have my little acreage mostly forested, and will be planting more in the Spring. Forest land gives us privacy, a firewood source when trees die--which they do, and cool things off in the Summer. 

Lecture over.


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## SJM66 (Nov 15, 2011)

*less is more*

In your area you most likely have pretty good soil so the least disturbing the better. I think you would be quite happy with the pasture you will get just by controlling the grazing. I have done what your doing and I am on similar soils 60 miles northeast of you. Our best pasture Has ALWAYS been the result of managed grazing. Done right it controls weeds well, conserves soil and costs very little. Just depends how flat and smooth YOU want the land for future uses. For grazing ,sheep or cows don't care if its a little rough. They also wouldn't mind if you left a few apple trees...


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## firecatf7333 (Nov 15, 2011)

Yea i have hunted in New Haven before, and i currently go to school in Oswego. I'm not too woried about good soil, b/c the soil must be good if apple trees grew there at one time, and there are crop fields right next to it. It may be a good idea to leave a few apple trees and trim them up, which could give shade or maybe a wind break in the winter. I have heard and read that rotational grazing is the best for quality pasture, and this will depend on if i graze sheep or beef. I called the owner last night and he said he wants 250k for 93 acres. Only about 30 acres is clear agriculture land, the woods aren't worth much at all, and the rest is goldenrod fields and the old apple orchard with old collapsed cabins and junk that need to be cleaned up. The assesment of the land is around $700-$800 and acre. I'm going to talk with him but i wont pay much over the assesed value. I'm not coming near 250k


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## Storm56 (Nov 15, 2011)

Lots of good advice here. I found myself in a similar situation 18 years ago. I chose to buy a 450 JD dozer with a 6 way blade and a 50 HP 4WD tractor with a front end loader and backhoe attachment. I simply paid someone to dig my basement with an excavator, was less than I could rent one for. 

Depending on the tree, sometimes I would cut them, sometimes push them over with the dozer. I have found the 6 way blade invaluable. You can do so much with them that you would really struggle to do with a track loader. The front end loader on the tractor handles any materials I need to move and of course I do all of my planting etc with it. The backhoe is also VERY handy. 

Do not be afraid to look at a Dresser machine. You can usually buy a better condition larger machine in this brand than the Deere/Cat brands for the money you have available. In fact I just this summer upgraded my dozer to a 2007 Dresser TD7 for a song with the economy being as it is. The TD7 is a LOT more machine than the 450 was. 

Good luck with whatever you decide and HAVE FUN!!


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## ropensaddle (Nov 15, 2011)

firecatf7333 said:


> Yea i have hunted in New Haven before, and i currently go to school in Oswego. I'm not too woried about good soil, b/c the soil must be good if apple trees grew there at one time, and there are crop fields right next to it. It may be a good idea to leave a few apple trees and trim them up, which could give shade or maybe a wind break in the winter. I have heard and read that rotational grazing is the best for quality pasture, and this will depend on if i graze sheep or beef. I called the owner last night and he said he wants 250k for 93 acres. Only about 30 acres is clear agriculture land, the woods aren't worth much at all, and the rest is goldenrod fields and the old apple orchard with old collapsed cabins and junk that need to be cleaned up. The assesment of the land is around $700-$800 and acre. I'm going to talk with him but i wont pay much over the assesed value. I'm not coming near 250k



Well the soil test is not to test if the soil is good, lol it will tell you if you need lime,potash etc and sets your ph and fertilization requirements. We have acid soil here and lime is needed but without testing your just guessing the tonnage per acre. The yields of any crop depend on if its requirements to flourish are met!


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## EzTrbo (Nov 19, 2011)

With a lil work a good dozer can do anything you ask of it(sides load trucks). Take your time, plan out your attack and keep things neat as you go. I run equipment for a living and when taking down trees I still prefer a good dozer. I am more handy on an excavator but I'll run circles around even a good excvator cleaning timber and being able to keep things clean and dirt out of the piles. Like a few others said, don't be afraid to look at dresser equipment and alot of times you are WAY further ahead to rent, pay a lil more but you have it when you need it, and dn't have to worry bout any breakdowns, etc. 
Good luck.
Trbo


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## ropensaddle (Nov 20, 2011)

EzTrbo said:


> With a lil work a good dozer can do anything you ask of it(sides load trucks). Take your time, plan out your attack and keep things neat as you go. I run equipment for a living and when taking down trees I still prefer a good dozer. I am more handy on an excavator but I'll run circles around even a good excvator cleaning timber and being able to keep things clean and dirt out of the piles. Like a few others said, don't be afraid to look at dresser equipment and alot of times you are WAY further ahead to rent, pay a lil more but you have it when you need it, and dn't have to worry bout any breakdowns, etc.
> Good luck.
> Trbo



Lol and I go behind you in two years and take the trees down your dozer killed


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## EzTrbo (Nov 20, 2011)

ropensaddle said:


> Lol and I go behind you in two years and take the trees down your dozer killed



Ok, went back and read a few of your post on the compaction issue, etc. I have grown up around equipment all my life and family has done a ton of dozer work in yards, timbers, tree farms, etc and you are quite right on the compaction but you must take care to NOT do that. However the right dozer will have a lesser PSI on the dirt than even say a small skid loader. More times than not its the operator, not the machine that does the damage!

Trbo


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## s219 (Nov 20, 2011)

So what are people's thoughts on using a backhoe, say a JD 310 (or similar)? I have taken out small stumps with a backhoe before, by nipping off the roots on one side, and then pushing the stump over and plucking it out. Now I am looking into clearing an area that may have 30-50 stumps when done, and am wondering if a backhoe would still work. The trees are all pines, with dbh of 6-10".


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## ropensaddle (Nov 21, 2011)

EzTrbo said:


> Ok, went back and read a few of your post on the compaction issue, etc. I have grown up around equipment all my life and family has done a ton of dozer work in yards, timbers, tree farms, etc and you are quite right on the compaction but you must take care to NOT do that. However the right dozer will have a lesser PSI on the dirt than even say a small skid loader. More times than not its the operator, not the machine that does the damage!
> 
> Trbo



Want the truth? It will compact if measures are not applied to counter it. What an operator can do to help is not bang into trunks skid logs around them etc. However most operators I have seen are not concerned one bit about the trees that are being left and gouge up the stems rip off bark etc. I am not saying you do so please don't take offense its just my experience. If you ever need to work near large trees that you want to save place a lot of mulch down first then take up excess after work is performed just so you know what will prevent the issue.


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## EzTrbo (Nov 22, 2011)

Rope,

No offense taken...cause i KNOW excatally what you are talking bout on the NOT caring bout scaring up trees, roots etc. Grandpa's biz platform was to give customers the best bang for their buck but also making sure that each job was our personal advertisement and billboard to how we do work. For over 60 years in the area if you wanted somthing done and done right and have it look perfect you called him. I'm not bragging, just stating what type of work we did. Today i am around other companies due to the job i now have and when i tell them who i am, that is the first thing they ask and most all of them have commented on one project or another we have done. I see so many "operators" that don't care about how things look, just making the $$$.

Trbo


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## floyd (Nov 24, 2011)

Think track hoe with a thumb. Some have blades on the front.

I think you will get a much cleaner job done with a hoe.


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## Ayatollah (Nov 24, 2011)

bobt said:


> Great for removing those small apples as well. Just pull up to the base of a tree, sink the teeth of the bucket down a couple of feet to cut the roots on your side of the tree, and raise the bucket up about three or four feet on the trunk and push it over. Just as slick as can be. Line the removed trees in a row, cut the firewood. The stumps go in one pile, and the tops in another to be burned.
> 
> The loader makes all the difference. Get yourself an old single axle dump truck, and you can do about any hauling you will need for your house.



Years ago I used to buy up rows of walnut, and almond trees from a contractor who cleared orchards. He used that same method, and this made cutting wood fairly easy. The trees would suck air for several months, thereby starting to dry out, and be laying at decent levels for access.

Single axle dump trailer? Really?


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## gink595 (Nov 24, 2011)

Case 550 would be another option. Or just big with a TD-24


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## 56himmelreich (Nov 24, 2011)

I would like to say, have you ever build a house before? You are a little ahead of what you want to do house building is labor intensive and will cost more then any budget.YOUR home is what maybe your most important investment getting it in the right spot and with the right house is a big investment. I would vote for a tractor midrange the attachments and the financing are the reasons. good luck.


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## ropensaddle (Nov 24, 2011)

56himmelreich said:


> I would like to say, have you ever build a house before? You are a little ahead of what you want to do house building is labor intensive and will cost more then any budget.YOUR home is what maybe your most important investment getting it in the right spot and with the right house is a big investment. I would vote for a tractor midrange the attachments and the financing are the reasons. good luck.



Man twenty poles and buffalo hides are expensive


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