# Inside the Stihl MS500i - SNELLERIZED Style



## blsnelling (May 15, 2019)

I finally got my grubby hands on one of these bad boys. It showed up yesterday, straight off the boat from Greece. I wasn't feeling well last night, so tonight was the night.


































The first two things I noticed was that it started in only 4 pulls and had instant throttle response...brand new, straight out of the box, no fuel ever in it, and cold. It was then time to hit the wood pile. I have very little wood here, so only four cuts were made, basically to make sure it ran right. The cuts in this video are the very first cuts it made, shortly after the very first start. It ran very well with good power and not a single hiccup. It definitely has more power than a new MS462, as it should.







It then went straight to the bench, just like most saws that I port.


These next couple of pics were simply for reference should I need them for reassembly.















Here's your burn pattern after the first 4 cuts.





I used a mandrel to cut the squishband. (Thanks Randy! It's the same one you made for me to cut 066/MS660s several years ago). I took the pic after the first cut so that the shape of the squishband would be more evident. I debated doing a popup on the piston, but chose to go with cutting the squishband since the combustion chamber is kind of odd shaped.





After cutting, I use 120 grit and then 220 grit to smooth and even it up. The sanding will remove any inconsistencies introduced with the cutter. You simply sand until all of the cut surface has been sanded, indicating that there are now no low or high spots.





Here's some of my port layout. I like to mark existing port edges, pin locations, and desired port edges.

The intake was smoothed and the roof slightly reshaped. It was not made larger in any dimension. There's very little room to widen the transfers due to the ring end location.





This saw has very short blowdown, so the transfers were only leveled, not raising the front of the port at all. That's why you see a little of the NiSi lining remaining in the port. I left the primaries opening 2° before the secondaries. This is a technique I have done for several years. It's interesting to see Stihl incorporate that into this saw. By the way, these lines are remarked several times as I check and refine my work.










The exhaust was raised several degrees. This gave me some additional blowdown and made up for dropping the cylinder.




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## blsnelling (May 15, 2019)

Here's some of the final port work.

























































OK, I'm probably going to catch some flack for this ugly grinding, but oh well. It's the inside of the muffler and I'm not sure how you'd make it pretty anyway. I suppose bead blasting would help, but I don't have a sand blaster. Fire away! Lol 



I pitch my tent in the "Just let it flow" camp. I am not of the opinion that there is any performance tuning to these muffler. I believe it's all for sound and decibel control. I simply want it to exit the saw as fast and easily as possible. I could be wrong, but that's how I do it.
























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## blsnelling (May 15, 2019)

Here's where I'm going to disappoint you and not give you and videos of it cutting, no evidence that I've made any kind of improvement. It was going on midnight here when I got it done. Weather permitting, I'll have a video of it in the wood tomorrow evening. 




​


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## Andyshine77 (May 15, 2019)

You finally got the saw[emoji106] Sounds way better after porting.


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## Brent Nowell (May 15, 2019)

I wanna see the injector and fuel pump please


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## Haywire Haywood (May 15, 2019)

Subscribed...


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## blsnelling (May 15, 2019)

Brent Nowell said:


> I wanna see the injector and fuel pump please


There are pics in another forum.


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## blsnelling (May 15, 2019)

Andyshine77 said:


> You finally got the saw[emoji106] Sounds way better after porting.


Has a real nice pop to it at idle. Compression is just shy of 180 PSI.


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## Derrick Sawyer (May 15, 2019)

Its like Christmas in May! No dividers in the intake boot or cylinder intake? What did the squish start at and whats it at now? Combustion chamber looks pretty small, everything looks good so far, great pics.


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## blsnelling (May 15, 2019)

Derrick Sawyer said:


> Its like Christmas in May! No dividers in the intake boot or cylinder intake? What did the squish start at and whats it at now? Combustion chamber looks pretty small, everything looks good so far, great pics.


No dividers. It's not a true Stato saw. It only has the long transfer runners. Otherwise, it's just a typical 2-stroke.

Well, funny you should ask. I thought it was .025" stock. However, after taking .030" from the squishband, and cutting the base accordingly, I had to take more off to get my .020" squish. Either the stock squish was more than I thought or I took more out of the squishband than I thought. I'm quite confident that wasn't the case though. I have a nice depth micrometer that I got from a good friends  @Stihl 041S


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## LowVolt (May 15, 2019)




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## stihlaficionado (May 15, 2019)

Nice job, Brad, as usual


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## blsnelling (May 15, 2019)

LowVolt said:


>


Did the muffler make you throw up, lol?


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## blsnelling (May 15, 2019)

The saw feels amazingly torquey. This wood is just awful, especially if you're trying to time the cuts. It doesn't show what I feel. It will take bar length wood to make this saw shine. All excuses aside, it does run very well. I may go back in and raise the exhaust a couple more degrees to see if I can pick up some more RPMs.


*After machine work/Before porting*
Exhaust - 108°
Transfers - 122°/124°
Intake - 88°
*After Porting*

Exhaust - 105° and widened to 60% of bore
Transfers - 122°/124° leveled and widened slightly
Intake - 88° only smooth and the interior roof of the port reshaped

I'm considering taking the exhaust up to 102°. What I'm less sure about is whether to keep the added blowdown, or go back to the short 14°/16° of factory blowdown. One option is to taper the piston crown to get the port timing I want. If the saw likes it, I can replace the piston and grind it into the cylinder.

Thoughts? Opinions? 
​


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## alexcagle (May 15, 2019)

I'll take it.
How much? LOL
Good post Brad.


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## blsnelling (May 15, 2019)

It seriously liked raising the exhaust. It's now at 102°-102.5°. I didn't touch anything else. This thing seriously came alive. It gained a lot of RPMs and didn't loose a hint of torque! I am very pleased with it at this point. Now to get it out and run it with the two 462s I still have here, along with my 440/460 hybrid, and maybe @LowVolt 's ported 461. Might as well throw the 390XP in there.


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## stihl86 (May 15, 2019)

My distributor can’t even give us a guess when we might get a snif at one.
You have any concerns about the injection system limiting out?


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## Andyshine77 (May 15, 2019)

blsnelling said:


> It seriously liked raising the exhaust. It's now at 102°-102.5°. I didn't touch anything else. This thing seriously came alive. It gained a lot of RPMs and didn't loose a hint of torque! I am very pleased with it at this point. Now to get it out and run it with the two 462s I still have here, along with my 440/460 hybrid, and maybe @LowVolt 's ported 461. Might as well throw the 390XP in there.
> 
> 
> ​




I know a guy with a ported and stock 7900, might be hard to track him do though. Forgot a stock 390 too.

So far the saw sound better each time you do something Stock the saw sounds pretty lame if you ask me, I'm sure it runs fine, just seems to have slow acceleration stock, or at least that's how it sounds. The 462 on the other hand is real snappy.


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## Jethro 2t sniffer (May 15, 2019)

Programmable ECU?


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## alexcagle (May 15, 2019)

blsnelling said:


> Has a real nice pop to it at idle. Compression is just shy of 180 PSI.


Sounds crisp.


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## SCHallenger (May 15, 2019)

Throttle response is amazing!


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## blsnelling (May 15, 2019)

Andyshine77 said:


> I know a guy with a ported and stock 7900, might be hard to track him do though. Forgot a stock 390 too.
> 
> So far the saw sound better each time you do something Stock the saw sounds pretty lame if you ask me, I'm sure it runs fine, just seems to have slow acceleration stock, or at least that's how it sounds. The 462 on the other hand is real snappy.


Your 390 isn't stock. Hopefully it doesn't run like stock!


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## Andyshine77 (May 15, 2019)

blsnelling said:


> Your 390 isn't stock. Hopefully it doesn't run like stock!



Unless you snuck in and ported the other 390 I have, "that's still sitting in the box" I'm pretty sure it's stock. I have no idea why I bought it.


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## Huskybill (May 15, 2019)

With the air cooled husky older bikes I played with the exhaust ports. I found out by raising them and arching them to the sides worked. On the 250cc I would raise the exhaust port in the middle about 1/8” and arc it to the sides and keep it raised 1/16”.
Open it wider and polish the port and make it bigger towards the pipe opening. Then I widened the intake port and lower it. I started out on porting the first bike just a tad to see the improvement. With each bike I went a tad more in porting. Bu my fourth bike I had it down.


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## alexcagle (May 15, 2019)

I'm sure I'm not the first person to think of the fact that Stihl spends millions on R&D before settling on a new design, and then even more to take it to production.
Sure, more power is possible on most any production saw, but at the cost of fuel economy, durability, and increased emissions.
But then again, people jump out of perfectly good airplanes too....lol


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## Andyshine77 (May 15, 2019)

alexcagle said:


> I'm sure I'm not the first person to think of the fact that Stihl spends millions on R&D before settling on a new design, and then take it to production.
> Sure, more power is possible on most any production saw, but at the cost of fuel economy, durability, and increased emissions.
> But then again, people jump out of perfectly good airplanes too....lol


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## CR888 (May 16, 2019)

Andyshine77 said:


> So far the saw sound better each time you do something Stock the saw sounds pretty lame if you ask me, I'm sure it runs fine, just seems to have slow acceleration stock, or at least that's how it sounds. The 462 on the other hand is real snappy.


I'm in the same boat having not run a 500 but get the EXACT same impression, its a bit dissapointing in 'stock' form compared to say the 462 which is great off the shelf. Interesting to see how this saw turns out after mods, what its limitations are and what it responds well too. I'm sure it has potential to run real hard. I like the shape/style of the 500, it looks 'fast'. Thanks for sharing Brad, while your not taking port work, I get the impression you could'nt resist with this one.


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## Stihl 041S (May 16, 2019)

Thanks Brad.........just when I thought I was done buying saws...


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## farmer steve (May 16, 2019)

Stihl 041S said:


> Thanks Brad.........just when I thought I was done buying saws...


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## Stihl 041S (May 16, 2019)

farmer steve said:


>


Hey Steve. 
Asparagus and strawberries are coming in like crazy!!!!


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## DND 9000 (May 16, 2019)

stihl86 said:


> You have any concerns about the injection system limiting out?



According to a Stihl mechanic on the other side, the injection is able to push a lot of fuel into the engine. That shouldn`t be a limiting factor.



Jethro 2t sniffer said:


> Programmable ECU?



Yes, see the special version used on the Waldarbeiter-Meisterschaften 2018 in Lillehammer/Norway. There was a german youtube video about it.


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## blsnelling (May 16, 2019)

It's interesting the response this saw gets when stock. Contrary to perception, this saw has probably the best throttle response and spool up of any saw in it's class that I'm familiar with. I would much rather have it over the 462.


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## blsnelling (May 16, 2019)

Andyshine77 said:


> Unless you snuck in and ported the other 390 I have, "that's still sitting in the box" I'm pretty sure it's stock. I have no idea why I bought it.


You have two?!


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## blsnelling (May 16, 2019)

alexcagle said:


> I'm sure I'm not the first person to think of the fact that Stihl spends millions on R&D before settling on a new design, and then take it to production.
> Sure, more power is possible on most any production saw, but at the cost of fuel economy, durability, and increased emissions.
> But then again, people jump out of perfectly good airplanes too....lol


A manufacture rarely ever takes equipment near their max performance. They're limited by regulation and much more concerned about the bottom dollar. Look at a corvette Z06. They're an amazing car from the factory, but have TONS left on the table.


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## Andyshine77 (May 16, 2019)

blsnelling said:


> You have two?!


[emoji4]


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## stihlaficionado (May 16, 2019)

blsnelling said:


> It's interesting the response this saw gets when stock. Contrary to perception, this saw has probably the best throttle response and spool up of any saw in it's class that I'm familiar with. I would much rather have it over the 462.




Spot *On!*


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## madosta (May 16, 2019)

That begs the question isn't the 500i a saw in a class of it's own?

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


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## John Lyngdal (May 16, 2019)

stihl86 said:


> My distributor can’t even give us a guess when we might get a snif at one.



I did the asked the thing when I visited the local Stihl shop on Tuesday, and received the same response. I even offered to deliver test logs to cut donuts with and that didn't help. Looking forward to a contest between a stock 500i and the 440/460 Hybrid Chainsaw Jim is building for me. No way I _need _another saw, but the 500i might be too much too resist.


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## Jethro 2t sniffer (May 16, 2019)

DND 9000 said:


> According to a Stihl mechanic on the other side, the injection is able to push a lot of fuel into the engine. That shouldn`t be a limiting factor.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, see the special version used on the Waldarbeiter-Meisterschaften 2018 in Lillehammer/Norway. There was a german youtube video about it.




I really enjoy my old saws but damn that is really cool


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## stihlaficionado (May 16, 2019)

DND 9000 said:


> According to a Stihl mechanic on the other side, the injection is able to push a lot of fuel into the engine. That shouldn`t be a limiting factor.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, see the special version used on the Waldarbeiter-Meisterschaften 2018 in Lillehammer/Norway. There was a german youtube video about it.



I didn't understand a word spoken, but it doesn't really matter, I still want one.


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## Haywire Haywood (May 16, 2019)

Now they need to expand the line to smaller saws like 50-60cc


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## Stihl #1 (May 18, 2019)

alexcagle said:


> I'm sure I'm not the first person to think of the fact that Stihl spends millions on R&D before settling on a new design, and then even more to take it to production.
> Sure, more power is possible on most any production saw, but at the cost of fuel economy, durability, and increased emissions.
> But then again, people jump out of perfectly good airplanes too....lol


Alex you are spot on with what you said. I was sitting at the hotel beer garden in Stuttgart with some engineers from STIHL a few years ago and the topic of performance and mods came up. One of the guys used a MS 441 for example. Rated at about 5 hp with proper care and maintenance that saw can run several hundred hours and maintain a power and performance level that barely starts to fall off with run time. Field testing saws have hour meters that also record data. He told me he can get 15 hp out of a 441. It is now a 10 hour engine. Think about a small block Chevy in NASCAR form back when they were still production models. If they finished a 500 mile race they were happy. So mods are fun and yes there is always some HP and RPM left on the table in a factory delivered saw, but you will always pay a price when you push the engine beyond what was delivered in the box. I don't know what the limit is for how much fuel the MS 500i can flow but there is a limit and it will be expensive for whoever finds what it is.


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## Andyshine77 (May 18, 2019)

Stihl #1 said:


> Alex you are spot on with what you said. I was sitting at the hotel beer garden in Stuttgart with some engineers from STIHL a few years ago and the topic of performance and mods came up. One of the guys used a MS 441 for example. Rated at about 5 hp with proper care and maintenance that saw can run several hundred hours and maintain a power and performance level that barely starts to fall off with run time. Field testing saws have hour meters that also record data. He told me he can get 15 hp out of a 441. It is now a 10 hour engine. Think about a small block Chevy in NASCAR form back when they were still production models. If they finished a 500 mile race they were happy. So mods are fun and yes there is always some HP and RPM left on the table in a factory delivered saw, but you will always pay a price when you push the engine beyond what was delivered in the box. I don't know what the limit is for how much fuel the MS 500i can flow but there is a limit and it will be expensive for whoever finds what it is.


I see you're a Stihl technical supervisor, so it's not a surprise this is your opinion. How is that Kool-Aid? lol.[emoji111]


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## alexcagle (May 19, 2019)

Andyshine77 said:


> I see you're a Stihl technical supervisor, so it's not a surprise this is your opinion. How is that Kool-Aid? lol.[emoji111]


Lol.....for those like me, who didn't understand his reference.....
"Drinking the *Kool*-*Aid*" is an expression commonly used in the United States that refers to a person who believes in a possibly doomed or dangerous idea because of perceived potential high rewards. The phrase often carries a negative connotation.


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## Colt Marlington (May 19, 2019)

Haywire Haywood said:


> Now they need to expand the line to smaller saws like 50-60cc


I hear they need a replacement in 42cc.


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## Stihl 041S (May 19, 2019)

Stihl #1 said:


> Alex you are spot on with what you said. I was sitting at the hotel beer garden in Stuttgart with some engineers from STIHL a few years ago and the topic of performance and mods came up. One of the guys used a MS 441 for example. Rated at about 5 hp with proper care and maintenance that saw can run several hundred hours and maintain a power and performance level that barely starts to fall off with run time. Field testing saws have hour meters that also record data. He told me he can get 15 hp out of a 441. It is now a 10 hour engine. Think about a small block Chevy in NASCAR form back when they were still production models. If they finished a 500 mile race they were happy. So mods are fun and yes there is always some HP and RPM left on the table in a factory delivered saw, but you will always pay a price when you push the engine beyond what was delivered in the box. I don't know what the limit is for how much fuel the MS 500i can flow but there is a limit and it will be expensive for whoever finds what it is.


There is a big difference between increasing power 30-40% and 200%. 
The length of life is not a straight line. 
And a modded saw runs cooler. 
Apples and oranges.


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## Haywire Haywood (May 19, 2019)

alexcagle said:


> Lol.....for those like me, who didn't understand his reference.....
> "Drinking the *Kool*-*Aid*" is an expression commonly used in the United States that refers to a person who believes in a possibly doomed or dangerous idea because of perceived potential high rewards. The phrase often carries a negative connotation.



It stems from the Jim Jones massacre where his followers were poisoned with kool aid and they so believed in their leader's message that they willingly chugged it down.


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## Andyshine77 (May 19, 2019)

Haywire Haywood said:


> It stems from the Jim Jones massacre where his followers were poisoned with kool aid and they so believed in their leader's message that they willingly chugged it down.



Correct.


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## Andyshine77 (May 19, 2019)

Stihl 041S said:


> There is a big difference between increasing power 30-40% and 200%.
> The length of life is not a straight line.
> And a modded saw runs cooler.
> Apples and oranges.



I would like to see a 441 that is making a real 15hp last 10 seconds let alone ten hours, but you and I know that never happened anyway, so why even think about it lol.


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## Stihl working hard (May 19, 2019)

Great thread as usual Brad thanks for sharing buddy


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## blsnelling (May 19, 2019)

It has been proven for years that modded work saws live a long happy life. It isn't just hobbiest doing this...it's men that count on them to make their living.


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## Deleted member 117362 (May 19, 2019)

Maybe we need a poll. I think more commercial cutters (loggers and tree services) use more stock saws, then modified saws.


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## Stihl 041S (May 19, 2019)

blsnelling said:


> It has been proven for years that modded work saws live a long happy life. It isn't just hobbiest doing this...it's men that count on them to make their living.


Walkerized saws weren’t kept in business by fanboys........and I would think the customers were fairly vocal if they didn’t last.


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## SCHallenger (May 19, 2019)

Duce said:


> Maybe we need a poll. I think more commercial cutters (loggers and tree services) use more stock saws, then modified saws.



I don't think very many of the tree service guys know much about modded saws or ever get a chance to run one. Most are not running their own, & their bosses are looking more at economics than anything else. I can't imagine that any significant percentage of them would consider spending an extra $350 on a saw to improve the performance.


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## InfiniteJest (May 19, 2019)

Duce said:


> Maybe we need a poll. I think more commercial cutters (loggers and tree services) use more stock saws, then modified saws.




I can't think of any other fallers that run stock saws. No sense in packing anything that's not at it's full potential. 

Thanks for sharing Brad.


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## Andyshine77 (May 19, 2019)

Duce said:


> Maybe we need a poll. I think more commercial cutters (loggers and tree services) use more stock saws, then modified saws.



Loggers seem to run modified saws, and it goes way back. tree service guys not so much.


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## Stihl 041S (May 19, 2019)

Andyshine77 said:


> Loggers seem to run modified saws, and it goes way back. tree service guys not so much.


Many tree service guys work for da boss man. 
Who buys the saws


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## Dph1256 (May 20, 2019)

Before and after porting what do you think is the max length bar for the 500i?


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## blsnelling (May 20, 2019)

Dph1256 said:


> Before and after porting what do you think is the max length bar for the 500i?


The power this saw is putting out, I wouldn't hesitate to try a 36" on it. You'd have to try it though. I don't have that size of wood here.


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## KarlD (May 20, 2019)

I love this saw, this thread about modifying/improving it and I love modified saws...but none of my saws are modified. Today I used 5 different saws to complete the job; if I used one or two saws day in day out I might get them modified but the money, time and hassle involved with getting them to someone that can do the work means I do not bother. Maybe though if I was in the US and I had a saw modder down the road that would be different. I myself can just about gut an exhaust, nothing more.

Great thread and thank you for taking the time to share it all with us


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## Jethro 2t sniffer (May 20, 2019)

KarlD said:


> I love this saw, this thread about modifying/improving it and I love modified saws...but none of my saws are modified. Today I used 5 different saws to complete the job; if I used one or two saws day in day out I might get them modified but the money, time and hassle involved with getting them to someone that can do the work means I do not bother. Maybe though if I was in the US and I had a saw modder down the road that would be different. I myself can just about gut an exhaust, nothing more.
> 
> Great thread and thank you for taking the time to share it all with us



There is other things you can do like base gasket delete maybe a little timing advance and pull the limiter caps


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## Rick Stephens (May 20, 2019)

Jethro 2t sniffer said:


> There is other things you can do like base gasket delete maybe a little timing advance and pull the limiter caps



And consider learning to mod them yourself. There are a number of places to start out that are reasonably safe ventures with some care and research - like muffler mods and carb tune ups. Then moving to checking squish and possibly doing a base gasket delete comes very naturally and safe. It doesn't take all that fancy of tooling to start opening up ports for better flow. Next thing you know, your saws become much less a mystery and more fun to operate.

I walked into the local Stihl shop today. First words out of his mouth: 'what are you hopping up today?'. I laughed and told him I was fixing a friends 031AV. He says he's sorry for me, he stopped doing those years back but has plenty of parts. Point is, in no time your local dealer will be making fun of you and helping you find parts


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## catbuster (May 20, 2019)

Jethro 2t sniffer said:


> There is other things you can do like base gasket delete maybe a little timing advance and pull the limiter caps



+1. All the company 461s had their mufflers opened up some, and the carb limiters pulled. It’s not hard, it’s better for the saw and it improves the performance some. 

Mine have that and an 046 coil. These are little things, mild hop ups but mostly for longevity and adjustability. I may be cutting at sea level one day where I can’t fatten the saw enough with the limiter and the next day I’m at 7000 where I have to lean it way back out. Better muffler flow... Well, there is an optimal amount of back pressure but any reasonable hole with a screen will not make a saw too free flowing. It mostly just lets the saw run cooler, which in some environments is a really big deal.


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## Skeans (May 20, 2019)

InfiniteJest said:


> I can't think of any other fallers that run stock saws. No sense in packing anything that's not at it's full potential.
> 
> Thanks for sharing Brad.



Depends on where you are and how strict stuff is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## catbuster (May 21, 2019)

Skeans said:


> Depends on where you are and how strict stuff is.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



This is right, too. On federal/state ground or on certain blocks you’ll get sent home and/or fined if your saw is found to be modified. CARB is very strict about it.


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## Skeans (May 21, 2019)

catbuster said:


> This is right, too. On federal/state ground or on certain blocks you’ll get sent home and/or fined if your saw is found to be modified. CARB is very strict about it.



Most companies won’t allow it either, some will not allow you to come back on any of their grounds if you’re found to run modified equipment.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bfrazier (May 21, 2019)

Quite possibly the most expert, detailed, and well photographed thread on the forum - video even. 

Thanks Brad!


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## catbuster (May 21, 2019)

Skeans said:


> Most companies won’t allow it either, some will not allow you to come back on any of their grounds if you’re found to run modified equipment.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



That’s what I meant by some blocks, probably should have said most. The days of run what ya brung mostly are over.


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## blsnelling (May 21, 2019)

catbuster said:


> Well, there is an optimal amount of back pressure


Not really. The only thing you might run into is degraded idle. As far as performance is concerned, no, you don't need any back pressure.



bfrazier said:


> Quite possibly the most expert, detailed, and well photographed thread on the forum - video even.
> 
> Thanks Brad!


I used to do a lot of these of you look back through my old posts. I hosted most of my own pictures, so they should still be there.


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## Westboastfaller (May 21, 2019)

bfrazier said:


> Quite possibly the most expert, detailed, and well photographed thread on the forum - video even.
> 
> Thanks Brad!


 Secret is to just give the right detail and not enough for a 'debate' or we would be on page 25 of crap. I like to geek out on numbers but not on saw demonstrations or physically running the saw. In 'the wild', my time piece is the number of gas tanks I run in a day if it's up to me. People made me hang a watch of my shirt if I had a scheduled pick up time.
What releases the brain chemicals is the saw attitude in the sound and response and how smooth it revs up 'back & fro'
What makes production in a professional? Sustainment! Were does that come from after all those years ?
Believe it or not..Instant gratification ...EVERY TIME YOU HIT THE TRIGGER. (with the right saw)

I remember what saw Porter Randy (Mastermind) said a few years back as I recall and that was :
-Some of the saws I have been building lately don't have as much torque but they are a lot more fun to run.

^^^That is what I call the ability to go forward. In other words "learning" "improving" "diversifying" "excelling" ect.
------
Brad's saws always have had the 'it' factor going on. "Different strokes for different folks".. different activities too but I have done few jobs that didn't involve multi activities. It is NEVER EVER about the cut through the log....It is ALL ABOUT the logs cut.


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## blsnelling (May 28, 2019)




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## Huskybill (May 29, 2019)

alexcagle said:


> I'm sure I'm not the first person to think of the fact that Stihl spends millions on R&D before settling on a new design, and then even more to take it to production.
> Sure, more power is possible on most any production saw, but at the cost of fuel economy, durability, and increased emissions.
> But then again, people jump out of perfectly good airplanes too....lol



Back in the mid to late 80’s my dealer offered me a piston and cylinder kit to field test the new design, on one of my husky 2100’s. It ran great better on gas mileage. But I had to send it back.

There looking for gas mileage it’s less pollution. I think the transfer port design needs a lot more testing design wise. First I would change the design angle in the transfer ports.

Now today it’s the weight of the saw and bar combination, then the horse power to spin that chain just as fast as the bigger cc saws. There testing the waters with the 62cc/72cc saws but I think they need to modify the saws in the 80cc group. It’s were the real cutting begins.

Sorry but after running a 2100 for many decades I’m still hooked on big bore saws. It’s a natural beast. In my younger days I drag raced big block Chevys, tuning is the key, I’m one of the very few who ran my bb 396/375hp at 50 degrees total advance at 2,000 rpm. Ported, and tuned by me. Only a few tuners know this in this country. Think out of the box, go we’re no tuner has ever gone. Port the snots out of it, make those radious’s smooth.


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## SCHallenger (May 29, 2019)

WOW!! That thing is amazing! Looks like Stihl has hit a grand slam with the 462 & 500I!


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## epicklein22 (Jun 2, 2019)

Nice thread! Looks like a well thought out machine.

I’m gonna skip the ms462, but it doesn’t look i’ll be able to resist a 500i. Should have a 572xp here soon from my dealer. He’s selling me his personal demo at cost. We’ll see if it can keep up with the 500i when it comes out.


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## blsnelling (Jun 11, 2019)

Does anyone know the PNs for dual dawgs on the 500i?


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## rupedoggy (Jun 11, 2019)

That's not enough or sharp enough chain in your video.


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## Be Stihl (Jun 11, 2019)

blsnelling said:


> Does anyone know the PNs for dual dawgs on the 500i?



Is that clutch cover the same as the one on a 261? If so I ordered a set from Stihl, and can find the number. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DND 9000 (Jun 11, 2019)

Be Stihl said:


> Is that clutch cover the same as the one on a 261?



The clutch cover is the same as on the MS 462.




blsnelling said:


> Does anyone know the PNs for dual dawgs on the 500i?



The bumber spikes from the MS 462 are used there too
Inner spike: 1142 664 0500
Outer spike: 1142 664 0501 (or set of outer spike with screw and lock nut 0000 660 0801)


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## blsnelling (Jun 11, 2019)

rupedoggy said:


> That's not enough or sharp enough chain in your video.


It has a good chain here, at least in the beginning of the video.


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## blsnelling (Jun 11, 2019)

DND 9000 said:


> The clutch cover is the same as on the MS 462.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you.


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## InfiniteJest (Jun 11, 2019)

Nice saw and nice work, but why isn't that Mac-T hardhat I sent you a few years ago on your head?

Just giving you a hard time- nice saw, good of you to pitch in. 

-Sam.


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## blsnelling (Jun 11, 2019)

InfiniteJest said:


> Nice saw and nice work, but why isn't that Mac-T hardhat I sent you a few years ago on your head?
> 
> Just giving you a hard time- nice saw, good of you to pitch in.
> 
> -Sam.


I still have it!


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## InfiniteJest (Jun 11, 2019)

Good deal! They're pretty much non-existent anymore.


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## av8or3 (Jun 12, 2019)

blsnelling said:


> Does anyone know the PNs for dual dawgs on the 500i?


It’s the same ones as the 462 I believe.


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## Huskybill (Sep 16, 2019)

Did you advance the timing or is it fixed and can’t touch it?

This saw is $1,700 usd? Wow can’t touch this,


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## Nathan Graff (Sep 17, 2019)

Could the TS 500i be modded the same way?


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## Austin Billings (Sep 17, 2019)

Has anyone messed with custom programming the ecu on this saw?


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## blsnelling (Sep 17, 2019)

Austin Billings said:


> Has anyone messed with custom programming the ecu on this saw?


That capability is not there.


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## blsnelling (Sep 17, 2019)

Nathan Graff said:


> Could the TS 500i be modded the same way?


I've yet to see a saw that couldn't be.


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## blsnelling (Sep 17, 2019)

Huskybill said:


> Did you advance the timing or is it fixed and can’t touch it?
> 
> This saw is $1,700 usd? Wow can’t touch this,


Yes, I advanced the timing. They are not yet available for purchase in the USA.


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## Austin Billings (Sep 17, 2019)

blsnelling said:


> That capability is not there.


Too bad because I bet there could be some good gains there


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## DND 9000 (Sep 17, 2019)

Stihl has made a racing version of the MS 500i for the Waldarbeiter Meisterschaften last year. That version also got a different software for the control unit. That means the control unit is updateable. They changed the control unit to sent operating data to a tablet. They talk about it in the video.


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## Huskybill (Sep 17, 2019)

I wonder if the timing is fixed we’re we set it or does it advance electronically?
With the timing advancing electronically it’s easier to start.

If not since there playing with fuel injection why not have the timing electronically advance. The next problem will be heat sooner or later? Will we see a water cooled chain saw in the future? I predict we will. The more saws that go high tech will run hotter, the heat has to go somewhere. With no way to keep it cooler longevity could be a problem. I don’t see them pushing the envelope any farther.


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## MontanaResident (Sep 17, 2019)

Huskybill said:


> I don’t see them pushing the envelope any farther.



Grow or die. Saws seem pretty low tech to me. Lots and lots of improvement to be made. Easier starting, lighter weight, more power, less maintenance, auto-choke, etc. With today's improvement in batteries (more power, smaller space, lighter in weight), how about a battery assist starter. I'd like to see a gear selector, torque vs horsepower, or pulling power vs. chain speed.


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## Austin Billings (Sep 17, 2019)

I’d like to see them start getting into the 90+cc range with the new technology. Bring the advancements of the ms462 and the 500i into 661 and 880 class.


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## Nathan Graff (Sep 17, 2019)

Think the MS500i would make a good milling saw?


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## Andyshine77 (Sep 17, 2019)

Huskybill said:


> I wonder if the timing is fixed we’re we set it or does it advance electronically?
> With the timing advancing electronically it’s easier to start.
> 
> If not since there playing with fuel injection why not have the timing electronically advance. The next problem will be heat sooner or later? Will we see a water cooled chain saw in the future? I predict we will. The more saws that go high tech will run hotter, the heat has to go somewhere. With no way to keep it cooler longevity could be a problem. I don’t see them pushing the envelope any farther.


Water cooling? No! Most saws already have some advance built into the electronic coils. Electric start, been done, faild. Weight is number one, next is simplicity. The next real move will be to electric saws with high capacity capacitors instead of traditional batteries. Internal combustion engines as we know it are at the end of their lifespan. Some of the stuff you guys say.[emoji23][emoji111]


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## av8or3 (Sep 17, 2019)

Nathan Graff said:


> Think the MS500i would make a good milling saw?


No


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## ShneaSIG (Sep 18, 2019)

@blsnelling or anyone else who happens to have one, would you mind giving me a brief update on your thoughts on the 500i? I'm all but resolved to get one, but was wondering what those of you who have had the saw for a bit and put it through the paces over the summer have to say now that you all have had the opportunity to run them a bit. Any flaws or grievances crop up, or changes from initial opinions and impressions?


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## jltrent (Sep 18, 2019)

They have great power to weight ratio, low fuel consumption, great for the EPA. It is funny that a good Stihl 064 30 years old although a little heavier still probably will beat them power to weight or close.


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## svk (Sep 18, 2019)

Very well done Brad!

Also it’s very nice to see that you can do a build thread around here again and not get trolled by knuckleheads.


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## EngineNoO9 (Sep 18, 2019)

Wonder if you could put a micro squirt stand alone ECU on that for kicks. I'm sure it'd run it and you'd gain full control

For $1700 though plus the ECU, I'll stick with my cheap carbs and used saws though.


Does the ECU use any kind of battery to turn it on prior to starting the saw or does it run only off of the voltage of the stator?


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## Huskvarna hotellgäst (Sep 18, 2019)

Huskybill said:


> The more saws that go high tech will run hotter, the heat has to go somewhere. With no way to keep it cooler longevity could be a problem. I don’t see them pushing the envelope any farther.


High tech ≠ high heat. It's because saws are still relatively low tech that this correlation remains valid.
If, and it's a big if, you could electronically control a saw engine so that it could seamlessly transition between traditional spark ignition when under low-load and spark-augmented (shock wave triggered) compression ignition when under high load, far less latent heat at full power would be produced due to the almost instantaneous combustion.
But...electric saws may come to the fore before then


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## Andyshine77 (Sep 18, 2019)

EngineNoO9 said:


> Wonder if you could put a micro squirt stand alone ECU on that for kicks. I'm sure it'd run it and you'd gain full control
> 
> For $1700 though plus the ECU, I'll stick with my cheap carbs and used saws though.
> 
> ...



I'm not an electronic technician or engineer, but I would guess the capacitors store some energy, ran off the flywheel stator.[emoji111]


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## Andyshine77 (Sep 18, 2019)

Huskvarna hotellgäst said:


> High tech ≠ high heat. It's because saws are still relatively low tech that this correlation remains valid.
> If, and it's a big if, you could electronically control a saw engine so that it could seamlessly transition between traditional spark ignition when under low-load and spark-augmented (shock wave triggered) compression ignition when under high load, far less latent heat at full power would be produced due to the almost instantaneous combustion.
> But...electric saws may come to the fore before then


Exactly. Saws do not make enough power stock or woods ported for heat to be an issue, you see that on saws with pipes and saws ran on alcohol and other fuels. Water cooling will never happen on a saw, way too much added weight and bulk.[emoji111]


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## EngineNoO9 (Sep 18, 2019)

Andyshine77 said:


> I'm not an electronic technician your engineer, but I would guess the capacitors store some energy, ran off the flywheel stator.[emoji111]



Well I'm not sure how the auto tune ones operate either. Assume there's some basic battery for the ECU that keeps things stores but it's powered off of the saws motor once running. Never seen one up close to study it.


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## Andyshine77 (Sep 18, 2019)

EngineNoO9 said:


> Well I'm not sure how the auto tune ones operate either. Assume there's some basic battery for the ECU that keeps things stores but it's powered off of the saws motor once running. Never seen one up close to study it.


Everything is sealed/potted in the coil, and the module on the carb. It's been decades since I worked for an electrical engineer. I think everything is stored on a rewritable chip, don't know if a battery is nessairy wonce the perimeters are set, my guess is not. But I really don't know.[emoji111]


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## pavel408 (Sep 19, 2019)

jltrent said:


> It is funny that a good Stihl 064 30 years old although a little heavier still probably will beat them power to weight or close.


Not true.
064 - 4,8 kW - 7,1 kg
066 - 5,0 kW - 7,3 kg
500i - 5,0 kW - 6,2 kg


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## av8or3 (Sep 19, 2019)

The saw has a generator built in behind the flywheel. Provides 56V to the system the instant you pull on the rope.


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## DND 9000 (Sep 19, 2019)

There is not battery or capacitor in it. When the engine gets turned by the rope starter, power is created by the generator. Wakeup process and syncronisation is done in 150ms.


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## av8or3 (Sep 19, 2019)

DND 9000 said:


> There is not battery or capacitor in it. When the engine gets turned by the rope starter, power is created by the generator. Wakeup process and syncronisation is done in 150ms.


OK, almost instantly


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## Andyshine77 (Sep 19, 2019)

DND 9000 said:


> There is not battery or capacitor in it. When the engine gets turned by the rope starter, power is created by the generator. Wakeup process and syncronisation is done in 150ms.


[emoji106][emoji106] along my line of limited knowledge of thinking.[emoji111]


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## bayard (Sep 19, 2019)

on the stihl web site they are saying for sale this winter!


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## EngineNoO9 (Sep 19, 2019)

av8or3 said:


> The saw has a generator built in behind the flywheel. Provides 56V to the system the instant you pull on the rope.



Cool. I figured it needed something extra.


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## Woody912 (Sep 19, 2019)

blsnelling said:


> The power this saw is putting out, I wouldn't hesitate to try a 36" on it. You'd have to try it though. I don't have that size of wood here.



I'll bring ya some real man sized wood in return for a saw!


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## epicklein22 (Oct 1, 2019)

I bought a ms500i earlier this summer and use it doing tree work ~3 days a week. It’s been an absolute tank. Not one single hiccup from it. Lightweight, instant throttle response, good power and it handles very nicely. Starts easily when cold and then it’s one pull once it’s hot. Stays primed for a long time. Filtration has been good too.


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## ShneaSIG (Oct 1, 2019)

Alright, Stihl! It's October! Where the 500i's at?!?


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## cary911 (Oct 2, 2019)

Still looks like a Blender?, … or a Vacuum Cleaner, idk! 

Nice work, as always though!


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## Austin Billings (Oct 4, 2019)

Could it be stroked?? Maybe throw a pipe on it... would be interesting to see how far it can go


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## woodfarmer (Oct 10, 2019)

Nathan Graff said:


> Could the TS 500i be modded the same way?


My dealer says the TS 500i is a PITA, very small concrete dust gets sucked through the filter and blows up the ecu at a cost of $900 to repair.
Hopefully the filtration will be good and this won’t happen with sawdust, time will tell.


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## blsnelling (Oct 11, 2019)

$900?!


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## stihlaficionado (Oct 11, 2019)

woodfarmer said:


> My dealer says the TS 500i is a PITA, very small concrete dust gets sucked through the filter and blows up the ecu at a cost of $900 to repair.
> Hopefully the filtration will be good and this won’t happen with sawdust, time will tell.


There is a YT vid where many litres of mix were run through the saw w/o the filter *ever being cleaned/replaced* . A torture test
of some sort...& the saw never missed a beat.


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## Skeans (Oct 11, 2019)

stihlaficionado said:


> There is a YT vid where many litres of mix were run through the saw w/o the filter *ever being cleaned/replaced* . A torture test
> of some sort...& the saw never missed a beat.



Wasn’t that in Scandinavia? I’d be interested to see how it filters in second growth or old growth Doug Fir the dust from it is something else and will get into everything.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## stihlaficionado (Oct 11, 2019)

Skeans said:


> Wasn’t that in Scandinavia? I’d be interested to see how it filters in second growth or old growth Doug Fir the dust from it is something else and will get into everything.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes in EU but not sure of country. I could not believe what I was seeing. The filter was absolutely caked with crud, yet somehow the saw ran.
Lots of "Don't do this with your 500i" disclaimers


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