# Whats the best way to get comfortable up high in the tree



## Holden (Feb 4, 2014)

Sometimes i feel i dont climb high enough cause nerves start to set in on certain trees.
Is there anyway to get more used to being way up in the tree ?


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## bootboy (Feb 4, 2014)

Spend more time up there.


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## sgreanbeans (Feb 5, 2014)

When u set ur TIP, tug test it on the ground really hard. That will make sure your brain understands that you will not rip it out.


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## TREENATE (Feb 5, 2014)

Maybe it's not good to get too comfortable up there? It's a high risk environment especially when you add a chainsaw to the mix. The most comfortable guys are those who climb on drugs, who are also the most accident prone.


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## woodchuck357 (Feb 5, 2014)

Spend more time in trees. Climb when not working and practice more "extreme" moves with an extra safety line with a ground person belay. AND don't get so comfortable that you get careless.


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## troythetreeman (Feb 5, 2014)

You have to trust yourself and trust your equipment. Be sure you're tied in somewhere that can support you, not only your weight but the shock load should you slip and be caught by your climbing line or during a swing. This is one thing I think about a lot since making the transition to spikeless climbing. When I'm on spikes at no point is my weight ever supported by something I hadn't visually inspected. Make thorough preclimb inspections being aware of all the signs of potential decay or structural defects. Inspect your gear rigorously and religiously. Tie in twice when cutting, making sure your secondary tie in is not done in such a way you would cut both lines if you happen to cut one.


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## zapblam (Feb 5, 2014)

understanding the characteristics of the species your climbing helps


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## Pelorus (Feb 5, 2014)

I'm hoping that some of the advice you get will also work for getting comfortable up high in an airplane.
I'm a gutted quivering human wreck in a plane. More flights and less Mayday episodes on TV would help, just like more time in a tree would/will benefit you.


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## zapblam (Feb 5, 2014)

lol a plane is more like someone else tying your tie in point...whole lotta trust going on


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## imagineero (Feb 6, 2014)

Try taking up a deck chair, and a few cold beers.

It's one of those things... It seems you've either got a head for it or you haven't. Plenty of guys are ok with dense tall trees, because they feel 'sheltered', but totally freak out and feel very exposed on tall single leaders like big palms. Keeping your head game under control is the most important thing in climbing. Experience helps a lot, but having someone climb with you is a huge benefit if they are good. I've done climbs with guys in past, and just shown them different things - adjusting their angles on spikes, using triangulated tie ins for spikeless, more secure work positioning methods.


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## derwoodii (Feb 6, 2014)

the joy of getting down and cash in your palm should always outweigh the worry while aloft 

Me the trip to the top not a bother as i strip away the limbs i feel secure safe.
Its when the last top limbs off and I start blocking down with my rope and flip line belt hooked high close to the wood and saw buzzing closer that i wonder WTF 
at 20 or 60 foot this can unnerve me for moments pause then once back in the groove that should go away


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## Zale (Feb 6, 2014)

Don't look down.


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## Adamgaspo (Feb 7, 2014)

Look down while rappelling, the tree will not fail (unless it is really dead) always inspect your tie in point, especially when climbing SRT. Learn to trust your gear. Learn to trust your gear..learn to trust your gear.....


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## imagineero (Feb 7, 2014)

Some guys just aren't cut out for this kind of work. I've seen more than a few climbers really lose their head in bigger trees, and in the bigger scheme of things even huge trees aren't really all that tall. You see them in smaller trees, or low down in bigger ones and they're climbing confidently, good stance, very secure. As they get higher up the technique starts getting real sketchy! They're moving a lot slower, second guessing themselves, hugging the tree, feeling the fear. It's very much a head game, physically there's no difference doing the work 150' off the ground than there is doing it 30' off the ground.

I started out rock climbing, and then moved into rescue and industrial access before becoming a tree climber. I love being in big trees. Feel much better being up there than on the ground. Love really hanging out up there, being way out on a limb with a lot of exposure. It's a great feeling! The 'getting up there' part is not as enjoyable as it used to be, but I'm getting older and heavier! I can see a wraptor in my not too distant future. There are days when I feel less heavy though, and those days the climbing is more of a pleasure. When you've got energy to burn you climb strongly, frittering it away and almost laughing. Brings a smile to your face for sure! Days like that I whip the hand saw out more, just feels right. 

Love the feeling of exposure being up a 1000' cliff face, nothing to really hold on to and the rope is only there as a backup. It brings a pleasant momentum to consciousness and focuses the spirit in a way that I've only experienced sailing. Certainly living in the moment, and very much absorbed. Your mind won't be off multi tasking, wondering what to have for dinner etc. Same kinda feeling hanging off the side of a 60 story sky scraper, very much a blank canvas!


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## imagineero (Feb 7, 2014)

Adamgaspo said:


> Look down while rappelling, *the tree will not fail (unless it is really dead)* always inspect your tie in point, especially when climbing SRT. Learn to trust your gear. Learn to trust your gear..learn to trust your gear.....



That's kind of dangerous generic advice there.


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## Adamgaspo (Feb 7, 2014)

Maybe so but arbor culture is an industry that it does not pay to be ignorant. To succeed you must know your surroundings and realize the
Inherent dangers associated with it.


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## 68 Buick (Feb 7, 2014)

Stay in smaller trees ( 30' ,40',50' etc ) and work your way up from there. No need grabbing the big ones right away, they will be there when you are ready. As your in those smaller trees find yourself some steady limbs to go out on to build up confidence. I also believe there is a difference between being comfortable, being cocky, and being careless. When you lose the fear or respect is when something will bite you.


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## imagineero (Feb 7, 2014)

Adamgaspo said:


> Look down while rappelling, the tree will not fail (unless it is really dead) always inspect your tie in point, especially when climbing SRT.





Adamgaspo said:


> Maybe so but arbor culture is an industry that it does not pay to be ignorant. To succeed you must know your surroundings and realize the
> Inherent dangers associated with it.



Neither of those statements really makes any sense to me. Live trees fail all the time. I've pulled more than a few over myself. Went out to a contract climb last year with a funky jacaranda that had root crown decay and quite a bit of rot but plenty of healthy foliage. To the lay person, a healthy tree. The principle contractor wanted some pruning done up high over street power lines and I told him there was no way I was climbing that thing, he'd need to get a bucket in. He insisted it was a strong healthy tree. I told him I'd put a throw line in it and show him how easy it was to snap a branch out, he agreed.

Put the throwline in, put my full weight onto it, and the entire tree failed at the roots. Came down hard, destroying a pergola. The look on the guys face was priceless! He said to me "what am I going to tell the owner?". I said "tell him you saved his life". 

Another climber I know was in a live healthy tree with root decay and it failed. Rode it to the ground and did ok out of it because he wasn't too high up. Cuts, scratches, bruises, twisted ankle, couple broken ribs and a dislocated shoulder. It's not only 'really dead' trees that fail. Live trees fail also. You've got to consider the species, the form, rot, diseases, pests and the individual TIP. Every case is different. I don't see how SRT changes any of that unless you're using a base tie off.


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## Adamgaspo (Feb 8, 2014)

I not familiar with those species of tree, and I do not doubt your assement of the trees condition where you live. But in all fairness here in North Carolina I have yet to see a healthy tree fail from a simple pull of a throw line nor with a rope attached and a 5 to 1 pulling at it.
Generally speaking if a large thriving white oak was to fail in my general area there would have to be obvious structural damage to the tree or Hypoxilin canker throughout the tree.
I have on the other hand climbed trees that were doomed to fail at any moment and they did not fail, they were removed safely.
Arbor culture is a high risk job inherent. So be afraid if you want, or don't,
Just realize that some fears can be overcome. Hell I'm afraid of heights yet I still climb 120ft tall trees.


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## beastmaster (Feb 8, 2014)

If your really terrified of hights you may never overcome it with out Dr. Phil. But if its just normal anxiety from being in a dangerous environment, thats normal and will be overcomed after your in more control of your fate. Knowing whats safe and what limits a certain tree can take will give you a lot more confidence. Trusting your equipment and knowing its limitations and strengths will help you too. 
A standing tree in its daily existence experiences more stress then your body weight will put on it(90% of the time)from wind ice and snow. If you have, as you always should, a good tie in, that should give you confidence. When you don't have to question your actions that''ll help. In other words experience.
I climb some dicey trees some time, and I would be lieing if I said I never get scared a little, but knowing the difference between a dose of healthy nervousness and and irrational fear will over come that. I check every thing out, make sure things are as safe as I can get it, then don't question my self(unless something crazy is thrown into the equation.)


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## climb4fun (Feb 9, 2014)

Climb a tall tree, find a good place to hang out and just stay there. I use to take a lunch up with me and enjoy the scenery while I ate back when I was learning. I live in Oregon and have 130 ft. Tall Douglas firs at my house that are limbed up to 60 ft. They were a great asset in learning to keep my head straight


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## Fireaxman (Feb 11, 2014)

Take your time, go slow. While you are still Low play with your gear. Hang upside down in your saddle. Bounce on it. Swing out on your ropes, before you start up. Establish confidence in your equipment. 

As you proceed up the tree, when you first start feeling a little nervous, before you get into full blown Fear, stop and hang out at that height until you feel comfortable there. Play on your ropes again. Swing out a little, roll in your saddle, work around the diameter of the tree, check all your rigging. When you start feeling a little bored, go on up a little further.

Don't feel like you Have to get all the way to the top in a tall tree when you start out. Take only as much as you feel comfortable with. I would advise you Not to push your threshold beyond nervous into fear. Panic is definitely a killer. If you are already scared you may be pretty close to the edge of panic. Might not take much to push you into it; a bee or wasp, unexpected resistance or slack in your friction hitch, etc. Go Slow. No hurry. Take YOUR time. They tell new motorcycle riders Ride Your Own Ride, don't try to "keep up" with a more experienced rider. I will adapt that advice to our sport, Climb Your Own Climb, don't get in a hurry.


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## VA-Sawyer (Feb 13, 2014)

Adamgaspo said:


> I not familiar with those species of tree, and I do not doubt your assement of the trees condition where you live. But in all fairness here in North Carolina I have yet to see a healthy tree fail from a simple pull of a throw line nor with a rope attached and a 5 to 1 pulling at it.
> Generally speaking if a large thriving white oak was to fail in my general area there would have to be obvious structural damage to the tree or Hypoxilin canker throughout the tree.


Trimmed for brevity.

Funny you should say that......one of my first insurance jobs was a fine looking White Oak about 60' tall and 36" DBH that decided to lean onto a house on a calm late spring day. It ended up about 35 to 40 degrees from vertical with its weight supported by hundreds of branches pressing against the roof. This tree was in full leaf and I would have been happy to rig BIG wood out of it the day before. It failed about 3' below grade on the uphill side, and a foot below on the downhill side. No roots were visible. Ground sloped away from the house.
It was fun climbing up that tree after setting up guy lines. Cut a few small limbs, check tension on guy lines. Repeat....repeat.....repeat. No big rigging, had to keep the whole thing in balance. Hardly any rot was noted in the tree during removal. The rot was invisible...... below the ground.


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## sgreanbeans (Feb 14, 2014)

https://www.facebook.com/qctree/photos/pb.134058976615762.-2207520000.1392379171./142196612468665/?type=3&src=https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t1/40058_142196612468665_6972555_n.jpg&size=540,720&fbid=142196612468665

Same with this one. Root rot. Lady was in bathroom about 10 seconds before it came over. If she stayed in front of the mirror, she would be dead. Branch came thru the roof and all the way down into the bathroom. Would have spiked her to the floor. That house is on the national historic registry. Copper gutters. 100g's in damage.


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## pro94lt (Feb 14, 2014)

I bet most of us got comfortable by throwing a high price out thinking they wouldn't hire you only to be asked when can you start...


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## Str8six (Feb 15, 2014)

I have seen a lot of white oaks around my area that are totally rotten underground but look totally healthy above. I cleaned one up at my grandfathers last year. It was in the middle of a flat hay pasture, no wet ground storm or anything.


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## VA-Sawyer (Feb 16, 2014)

One thing I can still remember about that tree.......asking myself why it went over on that fairly calm day, and not during the blow we had the previous week. I never found an answer.
Can roots really rot that fast?


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## sgreanbeans (Feb 17, 2014)

Not sure it is a case of them rotting that fast, but getting to the point to where they can no longer hold. The wind may have still been the final blow, by working the root tips back and forth. Little by little, loosing their "grip" in the soil. That one I posted, was a perfect day, sunny, warm, no wind.


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## Charlie Stone (Feb 17, 2014)

Don't look down


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## yoyoman (Feb 20, 2014)

Pelorus said:


> I'm hoping that some of the advice you get will also work for getting comfortable up high in an airplane.
> I'm a gutted quivering human wreck in a plane. More flights and less Mayday episodes on TV would help, just like more time in a tree would/will benefit you.


Hey Dave, let's going flying sometime, I'll let you take the controls as long as you want.


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## yoyoman (Feb 20, 2014)

Holden said:


> Sometimes i feel i dont climb high enough cause nerves start to set in on certain trees.
> Is there anyway to get more used to being way up in the tree ?


Get a tree boat or portaledge and sleep up there, wake up in the morning and look over the edge and dose back off to sleep again.


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## miko0618 (Feb 21, 2014)

giving examples of healthy trees falling doesn't really prove anything. that's the risk. it is like any other risk. you drive to work every day no issues. one day you hit a deer and it comes through the windshield and kills you. for the most part, any visibly healthy tree is wouldn't fail from a truck trying to pull it over. in fact, most visibly sick trees wouldn't fail from a truck pulling on it. when I get nervous I think about how strong a tree actually is. I've dropped some tall pine stems and watched them smash through padding logs on the ground. the amount of force it must take to break even a 12" log must be incredible. so theres no way I could break it with my weight. if you want to prove to yourself how much a tree can hold, set a block in a normal tie in and at the base. run a rigging line to your truck and to something really heavy. a log works good. you'll be able to lift 1000 lbs through a 2-1 making a ton on the crotch. we've loaded logs into a dump this way that's how I know this strange information  i personally like to tie in my final point from that location. i know it sucks goin all the way up to do it but i get to inspect the whole situation. because of it i can 100% trust my tie in. i think you have to to have fun up there. i take some big swings!


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## szajer (Feb 21, 2014)

When I first started climbing, my employer put me in the biggest— 120' and near 200 year old white oaks. Everything after that seemed small. Never had a hard time with heights, but climbing ladders and being on pitched roofs? That gets me nervous.

I was the foreman of our company and I was breaking in a new climber, who said, he had lots of experience climbing. His first task, a 90' pin oak pruning. I was in an oak just yards away, watching his technique as I pruned my tree. As he got to his first tie in, I noticed he had stopped working his way up and was doing the huggy bear around the spar. I asked if he was alright— and at that time, he started vibrating like a jackhammer. 

I knew he was in trouble, so I started calming him down by telling him to breath and stay put -cause he was tied in securely. He wouldn't answer me back and I then saw him untying his climbing knot, back then, a taunt line hitch. 
That was the point where I had to yell for him to stop! He did- and I immediately pulled out of my tree and started up his. Side by side, I came down with him. 

Well, he messed himself and I called for the boss to take him back to the shop and call it the day. He never came back the next day. And my co-workers did not make fun of the fact he lost his mind and bodily functions. It was actually pretty scary to think we almost witnessed a death due to complete fear and a shut down to any reasoning.

True story....

They're no shame being a groundman. If you're not cut out for climbing, then don't force it. Nothing beats a good groundman. Nothing.


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## Str8six (Feb 22, 2014)

I also try and think about all the rope and tire swings I rigged as a kid. If some of those limbs didn't fail being tied out at the end then I'm pretty sure my climbing tie ins today won't. I did have one incident with a rope swing but that was before I knew how to tie real knots.


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## pro94lt (Feb 22, 2014)

The co-dominant stem sweet gum in my back yard I learned the basic climbing techniques in failed last summer. I spent hours upon hours in that tree and it decided to fail while I was ironically working on my bucket truck no wind or anything... sometimes they just go. Hit the house and did damage to shingles, chimney and decking. It troubles me.


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## szajer (Feb 22, 2014)

pro94lt said:


> sweet gum


There's your problem. Sweet Gum is a notorious flimsy tree with poor branch structure. 

I too had one on a property I rented years ago -that failed in the same way. Twice.


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## VA-Sawyer (Feb 22, 2014)

The risk can be reduced... take time to visually inspect the tree. Once you have your climb line installed, walk it off to a safe direction and pull hard. Two or three guys pulling is even better. Just be prepared to run IF it is the RARE tree that can be pulled over.
Trusting my equipment is no problem. Trusting the TIP is easier after a good pull test. Trusting myself........ we will leave that one for a different thread.


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## capetrees (Feb 23, 2014)

TREENATE said:


> Maybe it's not good to get too comfortable up there? It's a high risk environment especially when you add a chainsaw to the mix. The most comfortable guys are those who climb on drugs, who are also the most accident prone.


 

WHAT????!!!!

So by your reasoning nobody should be up in the tree, skilled or otherwise, for any length of time because it's dangerous? Really? And if your are comfortable up there you're a druggie? WOW!!

I've been up in the trees since I was 10 and I am MORE comfortable up in the canopy than on the ground or on a ladder. I could sit in the trees for days and not care or get nerved up. Came down only once in 40 years of climbing trees and thats because a wild weather front came in and nearly blew me out of the tree and I've never done any drugs (don't even like to use asprin).

My advise to anyone that is uncomfortable climbing a tree is to NOT DO IT. Would you be an electrictian if you were uncomfortable around electricity or a doctor uncomfortable around blood or virus's? I will admit that for much of my climbing life, I climbed without gear, all freestyle and often with saws for tree and branch removal. Unsafe, you bet. Comfortable? You bet and I wouldn't have been there if I wasn't. Got my saddle and spikes just a few years ago and now I can do soooo much more in the tree and safer. But all the gear in the world won't make you more comfortable if you don't have confidence in what you're doing. I didn't trust my saddle at first but I've become completely comfortable but still respectful of the idea it could break. Become more comfortable by doing more in the canopy. Height doesn't matter. Good TIP, good saddle, good flipline and good technique will prove to you you can do it. But don't force it. Some can climb, some can't.


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## VA-Sawyer (Feb 23, 2014)

The best way to get comfortable high up in a tree........

Put a big Bear in the bottom of the tree while you are in it.


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## Pelorus (Feb 23, 2014)

yoyoman said:


> Hey Dave, let's going flying sometime, I'll let you take the controls as long as you want.



Your kind offer notwithstanding, my itinerary for the next 40 years forbids flying anywhere.


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## RandomWoodsman (Feb 24, 2014)

In the tops that are really thin and flexy I will route my tie in through a couple points to spread out my weight this will also feel a little more stable and hopefully make u feel better other than that practice practice practice.


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## capetrees (Feb 24, 2014)

And also know your trees. What I mean is know how the tree will react under pressure from you climbing on it. I'll climb and hang in an oak all day but I'd never do any limb walking on a willow or alianthus. Even maples make me nervous. I'll climb way out on a thin black pine branch but I'll stay close to the trunk on a white pine. Some trees are brittle, some are very forgiving.


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## szajer (Feb 25, 2014)

VA-Sawyer said:


> The best way to get comfortable high up in a tree........
> 
> Put a big Bear in the bottom of the tree while you are in it.


Too bad they're better climbers than most of us here.


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## TREENATE (Feb 26, 2014)

capetrees said:


> WHAT????!!!!
> 
> So by your reasoning nobody should be up in the tree, skilled or otherwise, for any length of time because it's dangerous? Really? And if your are comfortable up there you're a druggie? WOW!!
> 
> ...



That's funny, I used to do electrical work and I never really got comfortable around it either. It's scary stuff. The last company I worked for had a guy fall 40 feet from a palm tree. He was high or stoned or whatever you call it. He was pretty comfortable and fearless up in that tree. He was so comfortable that he leaned back on his lanyard but forgot to clip in. He was way comfortable until he hit the ground. I've been rock climbing since 1989 and I've been doing tree work since 2000 and I still stand by what I said. Don't get too comfortable up high because that is when accidents happen. I think that goes double for someone who is new to working up high.


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## Matt81 (Mar 4, 2014)

TREENATE said:


> Maybe it's not good to get too comfortable up there? It's a high risk environment especially when you add a chainsaw to the mix.



Couldn't have put it better myself.

When all said and done you are still high off the ground with only a rope for stopping a long drop with a sudden stop. We are all trained in procedures. Clip in, double check etc...etc... it is mental training to be constantly vigilant and aware of checking and double checking

The more comfortable mentally you are, certain people have a tendency to become complacent. Then it's more likely you will be 1 or 2 steps ahead with your brain but your body hasn't caught up. That's when accidents have the potential to occur. Too many people i have worked with or known are way too complacent and are always thinking too far ahead and not on what they are doing right now in the tree.

I know of someone who told me of a climber who he worked with was working away at a million miles an hour in a tree and he absent minded clipped one end of his lanyard into his caritool. He was still on the rope thank goodness but he sure got a shock when he leaned back and caritool snapped and he fell with no warning. He had the arrogance to blame the caritool!! I say he was an idiot for putting the caritool right next to his side D and not taking the extra second to check he was clipped in correctly.

Another friend told me also of a new climber who was very confident and had a "good head for heights" in his own words. He was working an easy tree as he was still greenish but had an experienced groundie. Branches were all off and he was blocking down the trunk. At this point he was only around 15-20 feet off the ground with spikes and a polebelt. Climber was getting impatient and irritated because the saw was playing up and he called out to the groundie who was spotting for him, to go to the truck and grab another saw. Groundie told him not to cut anything and wait for him to return. He went to get the saw but as soon as he started walking back he heard the climber re-start the saw and begin to cut. Groundie rushes back to see the climber cut straight through his polebelt then instantly drop the saw and bear hug the tree. He had to come down 15 feet with only his spikes. 

Being too comfortable mentally can lead to complacency. Same goes for being distracted or allowing something to get you angry or upset. It only takes one thing for you to forget to do, or do in the wrong order and it can all be over. Not everyone gets a second chance like these 2.


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## TREENATE (Mar 4, 2014)

I personally know of 4 bad falls that resulted in significant injury or death. One was an amateur on a ladder that cut a big branch which knocked his ladder out from underneath him. He wasn't tied on and he landed on his heels which were shattered, among many other injuries. Another amateur "self-taught" guy tried to rappel off one frond of a palm tree with a limb-saver. The stiff webbing acted as a wedge and pushed the frond away from the tree. He fell 40 feet onto grass and broke most of the bones on his left side. Since he landed someplace soft they were not complete breaks and he healed amazingly well. Third guy was on drugs and forgot to clip in on a palm tree and fell an unknown distance. I don't know much about his injuries. The fourth guy was in a palm tree that was overgrown and the fronds collapsed on him. I cut the tree down the next year and I felt like his ghost was watching in satisfaction. When palm trees are overgrown they need to be trimmed with a lift from the top down.


I think there are some things these guys had in common, the most important being how casual they were with their own lives. The other thing I just realized is how many people get hurt doing palm trees.


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## Matt81 (Mar 4, 2014)

TREENATE said:


> When palm trees are overgrown they need to be trimmed with a lift from the top down.
> 
> I think there are some things these guys had in common, the most important being how casual they were with their own lives. The other thing I just realized is how many people get hurt doing palm trees.



I had 3 palms around 35 feet high nothing like the ones in your pic, to remove for an uncle. It was a really tight access between a large shed and a fence and the neighbours house all within 4 meters. Not only was it around a 2 hour one way trip but i couldn't shake the thoughts of all the stories i had heard of bad things happening to guys climbing palms. Also i had never ever done one before as i live up in the mountains while my uncle lives by the ocean where they are far more common.

His neighbour ended up getting a large camphor laurel taken down and while the tree service was on site my uncle got a good deal for them to do all 3 of the palms that were left with their cherry picker.
I was relieved as i just could not shake that feeling off my back. I am not scared at height in a tree and would not have approached working in the palms any differently to any other tree i have done, in terms of safety and planning. I think we get that feeling for a reason. Call it a sixth sense or self preservation. 

I think being too comfortable also can mean shutting out these feelings and pressing on with the job regardless. If we don't listen to it sometimes is there any wonder when bad stuff happens?


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## beastmaster (Mar 6, 2014)

I can't help but feel comfortable up in a tree. I am kind of clumsy on the ground but trees are second nature to me and i move around pretty good. I'm real good at doing tip work, don't matter if the tree is 10 ft or 120 ft. Just because I'm comfortable and at ease hanging a 100ft up, out on the end of a skinny branch,doesn't mean I'm unsafe or on drugs. That sounds like something you've rationalize to explane your own fears. I am a professional climber, why wouldn't I be comfortable? 
I think being scared and nervious up in a tree would would lead to an accident quicker then some one who feels at one with the trees he in. Safety is either built into you or not. I am in the here and now when I'm up there, very aware of whats around me, I follow rules Ive learned and double check every thing. I do these things none stop without lots of thought. I'm safe and comfortable, to be otherwise just don't make no sense. Being over confident or cocky is different then being comfortable, maybe the two are being confused,
.


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## sgreanbeans (Mar 6, 2014)

word


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## Matt81 (Mar 6, 2014)

beastmaster said:


> I can't help but feel comfortable up in a tree. I am kind of clumsy on the ground but trees are second nature to me and i move around pretty good. I'm real good at doing tip work, don't matter if the tree is 10 ft or 120 ft. Just because I'm comfortable and at ease hanging a 100ft up, out on the end of a skinny branch,doesn't mean I'm unsafe or on drugs. That sounds like something you've rationalize to explane your own fears. I am a professional climber, why wouldn't I be comfortable? I think being scared and nervious up in a tree would would lead to an accident quicker then some one who feels at one with the trees he in. Safety is either built into you or not. I am in the here and now when I'm up there, very aware of whats around me, I follow rules Ive learned and double check every thing. I do these things none stop without lots of thought. I'm safe and comfortable, to be otherwise just don't make no sense. Being over confident or cocky is different then being comfortable, maybe the two are being confused,
> .



The word comfortable has been thrown around a lot since the beginning of this thread. Speaking for myself i am referring to someone being mentally relaxed, complacent, not switched on and not focused. Someone on autopilot.
A danger to themselves and others. In other words someone who is focused on anything but following sound technique and procedure and looking out for their own and others necks. I don't mean we should not be physically comfortable and at ease working in the tree. Of course we all should be! To be intimidated by and nervous of working at height is just a disaster waiting to happen. If you don't become comfortable up there after a certain period you don't belong there.

I think TreeNate is just pointing out that we should be a little more aware of what is going on around us and what we are doing. From his examples of those climbers who got killed or injured it sounds like they were on autopilot and not in charge of events that they should have been. I personally don't know of any climber i have worked with or anyone doing tree work on drugs. If i did they would not have been working, at least with our crew anyway. I did personally have an involvement in the dismissal of a young climber who was with us for only 5 or so months because of an alcohol problem. Yes i know it is a drug too. Nothing wrong with being a little bummed when hearing of someone getting killed or injured, it is always something to feel sorry for regardless of their own stupidity or not. A death affects so many more people than just the person who died. It is always something to take note of.

His blanket statement "The most comfortable guys are those who climb on drugs" is just plain wrong however. A sign of being comfortable when working in trees shows an application of training procedures, a physical and mental aptitude for the work and most of all (hopefully) a love for the job! "The most mentally relaxed and dangerously complacent guys are those who climb on drugs" i think fits much better.



capetrees said:


> I will admit that for much of my climbing life, I climbed without gear, all freestyle and often with saws for tree and branch removal. Unsafe, you bet. Comfortable? You bet and I wouldn't have been there if I wasn't.



Some have a feel and a natural aptitude for the work some don't. Some take safety and looking after their own neck seriously some don't. I have never done any tree climb work with no gear but i used to, as i'm sure all of us did, climb trees as a kid. A lot. When i look back now on some of the trees we would climb, 80' plus right to the top until there was nothing left to stand on or hold onto, i can't believe i ever did that. But we did.
I guess we were a lot lighter back then.  We got so used to doing it and moving around safely up at height that we never thought about falling or what would have happened if the wind really picked up at that moment.
Like Capetrees says, we would not have been there if we were not completely comfortable in what we were doing. The more you do something the better you should get at doing it. Nothing is a substitute for being well practiced.



capetrees said:


> But all the gear in the world won't make you more comfortable if you don't have confidence in what you're doing



I think that says it all. Like i said. Some have a feel and a natural aptitude for the work some don't. A greenie with wobbly knees and a sketchy work technique won't work any better in an easy tree with a zigzig and all the newest and most expensive climb gear in the world. A competent and confident climber could work a difficult tree with nothing other than a basic entry level climb rope and a prusik loop connected to their harness. I know because this is how i have climbed for years until just lately i have been bitten by the "shiny gear" bug. Partly out of need as since i left my old job to start out on my own i had to have my own stuff. If i am honest though i have bought a lot of fancy crap i may never end up using simply because of all the hype and advertising that goes along with new technology climb gear. Sometimes i think even with all the gear we use, we think too much about only the bad things that can happen. No matter how much gear or how expensive or cool it is, it is never a substitute for practice, following a sound technique and having a physical and mental aptitude for the work!!


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## Projector (Mar 20, 2014)

I'm slow and safe, and happy I am when that crazy thing happens. Try to be as calculated as possible, and be prepared for what might happen. 2 tip when running a saw and make your cuts between waist and chest height. Spend time up high, if your nervous either it's not right or you don't have the experience, spend time doing smaller trees like they're 100 ft plus i.e rigging tops. It will get yourself the feel for the shake and make you so happy when you just have to chunk down sections.


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## sgreanbeans (Mar 20, 2014)

Comfortable and complacent are to very different things. One does not mean the other. I am comfy but never complacent.


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## Greener (Mar 28, 2014)

"Certain trees" is what you said. Some trees will spook some of us more than others. The best advice given (in fact the only good advice I've seen here) is the guy who said "know the species of trees" you are climbing. This, in addition to being familiar with common pests and diseases and how to recognize them will give you more confidence in terms of the integrity of various trees. Keep your caution, though, it will keep you "upright" and "above ground."


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## adrenaline junkie (Jul 3, 2014)

Im scared of heights but I think that is why I do it. Trust yourself and double check everything. Enjoy the free buzz!


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## AdamOnRope (Aug 10, 2014)

I've been doing big trees for five plus years now and still get the jitters when I'm 80 + feet and blowing in the wind (white pines are the worst) but as long as I've done a thorough assessment of the tree and know that there are no major defects then I just tell myself that if it hasn't fallen down yet it likely won't now with little old me in it...works for me!


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## Volandtitanfan (Aug 10, 2014)

Ive been in tree tops since I was a kid. It still hits a nerve every now and then. I just look at this as a sixth sense or whatever you wanna call it telling me to stop and look around and make sure everything is secure and like it should be. Sometimes our subconcious is telling us we forgot something. Always trust your intincts never just force yourself to make a cut, climb or move unless you double check yourself. Your mind remembers more than you think.


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## ArtB (Aug 13, 2014)

start young -




top kid in the summer of 2010 picture above recently topped his first > 60 ft tree, next to house, pic below. Handsaw though, no chainsaw in treetops yet for 14 YO.

Of course, as others have said, find a good spot after your cut and sit there and admire the view for awhile - from where grandson is sitting on a branch few feet down from top, great view of Olympic mountains.


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## beastmaster (Aug 16, 2014)

My first real tree job was in the 70's, there wasn't a lot of safety stuff back then, no brakes on the saws, no locking clips, we made our own lanyards from three strand, and the crews were not soft and fuzzy.
You started out as a groundsmen, on a 5 man bug crew you had to learn fast. You would work with a climber, keeping his ropes clear, gassing up his saw, and watching and anticipating his every move up in the tree. After work we would learn knots ask questions. I climbed a thousand trees before I climbed a single tree.
Before I put on a pair of spikes I was well versed in what to look for and do. That gives you confidence by its self. while learning I would get the trees no one else wanted to do, leaners, sap covered sugar pines, bee trees. Even as rest the crew would be telling me to put my purse down, and pick up the saw, and hundreds of other "encouragements"', I knew they had my back.
Point being I was well trained. I run into lots of climber today who really don't know much. Even kids climb trees, it's not rocket science. The Art of climbing is knowing the trees and your own limitations. Am I scared because it dangerous, or because I don't know if it dangerous or not? I sometimes do stuff that people think I'm crazy, but I never take chances. If your trained right, and make aware of whats right and safe and whats not. Have certain rules ingrained in your brain, you'll be more comfortable in a tree. Its not being aware of a situation that makes us feel uncomfortable. Many climber get moved into situations they have no knowledge about. I'LL climb to the tip top of a Pondarosa pine in a 40 mile an hour wind, but wouldn't a white fur.Training and experience is what makes us comfortable high up in the trees.


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## Fireaxman (Sep 3, 2014)

How to get comfortable up high in a tree?

Good training, experience, a secure tie-in, good equipment, a little padding, and a good beer.
After the work is done, and the chain saw is lowered to the ground, take the time to relax and enjoy.

100 feet up in a 200 foot second growth Redwood.


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## dblack (Dec 5, 2014)

Hey I only have 25-30 hours of climbing experience. I climb part time. I was wondering if any of you guys have trouble with your forearms cramping up? Especially during snap cuts when you've climbing for an hour or two? I also was wondering if anyone gets a little Elvis leg going whenever your calf twitches? What are these things caused by?


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## pro94lt (Dec 5, 2014)

dblack said:


> Hey I only have 25-30 hours of climbing experience. I climb part time. I was wondering if any of you guys have trouble with your forearms cramping up? Especially during snap cuts when you've climbing for an hour or two? I also was wondering if anyone gets a little Elvis leg going whenever your calf twitches? What are these things caused by?


That's from being out of shape and stress.


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## Zale (Dec 5, 2014)

yep.


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## yoyoman (Dec 5, 2014)

Make it a swing, 1 min into vid.


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## imagineero (Dec 6, 2014)

It's partly from being out of shape and stress, it's also partly diet. Less energy drinks, more water and healthier foods. Make sure you're getting enough magnesium if you're prone to cramping.

The other thing is work positioning, and using the least energy possible. Use two tie in points (rope and lanyard) so you're not straining, and try to rest when your cutting. Work close to yourself, don't run your saw one handed at arms length. Two hands and working close will wear you out a lot less.

Having said that, if you're having a big day, 8-10 hours in the tree and blocking down with big saws the. You're gonna feel the burn. We've all been there.


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## TheJollyLogger (Dec 6, 2014)

+ 1 The toughest thing to learn in the tree is how to relax.


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## treebilly (Dec 6, 2014)

After 18 years in this I still get uncomfortable at times. We all have those days. It happens maybe twice a year where it just seems like I gotta fight for every cut and positioning. On those days I hang out and relax for a few minutes and return to the task.


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