# Huztl MS660



## Kyler Monares

http://www.huztl.net/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=54366

Complete parts kit minus bar and chain for a complete aftermarket MS660 for $140?!!!!!
Has anyone here on AS ever built an entire saw from one of their parts kits?
Afleetcommand on YouTube has and watching the saw run makes me want to buy one of these kits and put it together.
He states that the only part that is junk is the Huztl chain tensioner but i can get one of those from my local Stihl dealer. I would probably use OEM fuel and impulse lines as well
I mean for $140 why not try it?
they have kits for the MS660,MS361,MS360
Also the kit for the husqvarna saws include the 365, 362, 371, 372, 372xp all in one description/set?

I wish they would have a complete set of parts for an MS460, i would build one of those in a heartbeat.


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## backhoelover

i WOULD NOT put that kit on my 660. i have bad problems with huztl. you need to get a better kit for a 660.


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## Kyler Monares

backhoelover said:


> i WOULD NOT put that kit on my 660. i have bad problems with huztl. you need to get a better kit for a 660.


I already have an MS661. im talking about building a complete saw from the ground up using their parts.... who else has a complete set of aftermarket parts for a 660? what problems have you had with Huztl parts, just for future reference on what i should stay away from.


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## backhoelover

let see new engine that didnt have enough compression to start. just about always have to clean up the piston with a wire wheel . i dont get my engine parts from them but i do just about everything else, buy you a good engine kit and buy everthing else from them.


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## Kyler Monares

Ok I see what your sayin. So basically crankshaft, piston and cylinder I should go with better meteor and I can use the Hutzl cases?


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## Big_Wood

@weimedog


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## Kyler Monares

Just searched for a 54mm Meteor piston and cylinder kit. $139 from HL supply. 
54mm Hyway is $109
The meteor kit basically doubles the cost of doing his build. Just FYI


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## Big_Wood

Kyler Monares said:


> Just searched for a 54mm Meteor piston and cylinder kit. $139 from HL supply.
> 54mm Hyway is $109
> The meteor kit basically doubles the cost of doing his build. Just FYI



if your planning to build an AM saw. i would just build it all hutzl. their jugs work fine with nothing more then a good port bevelling. if you are planning to go out and make money with a saw skip AM altogether and run that 661.


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## Kyler Monares

westcoaster90 said:


> if your planning to build an AM saw. i would just build it all hutzl. their jugs work fine with nothing more then a good port bevelling. if you are planning to go out and make money with a saw skip AM altogether and run that 661.


Thats what I plan on doing, thanks westcoast,
I think it would be an awsome learning experience and have some fun with building a saw from the ground up. Thinking about their MS361 kit as well.
Later on I could always throw the meteor 56mm kit on the AM 660 just for fun


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## trboxman

I think that I just found my winter fun project.


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## Kyler Monares

This might be my September fun project!


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## Kyler Monares

I'm going to order the 660 kit and of course I'll document the build here on AS. And if that goes well I will then build an MS361 using their kit


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## Definitive Dave

I wonder how much shipping adds to that, more than doubles the price I bet.
141 is less than half the advertised wholesale price they charge guys who spend 100K+ a year so I imagine there is a catch somewhere
Dave


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## trboxman

Definitive Dave said:


> I wonder how much shipping adds to that, more than doubles the price I bet.
> 141 is less than half the advertised wholesale price they charge guys who spend 100K+ a year so I imagine there is a catch somewhere
> Dave



$98.00 for shipping


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## Kyler Monares

trboxman said:


> $98.00 for shipping



Ouch... $hit!!!!!


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## trboxman

Well, $98.89...so call it $100. Total for the kit and shipping is $240.88


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## Kyler Monares

Yep gotta read the fine print. Damn


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## trboxman

I went ahead and ordered one. I've pissed more than that away on a mediocre dinner... This will at least be fun and a bit of a learning experience, can't be more difficult than a V8 or a 5 spd manual tranny so I figure I've got a better than average chance of having it turn out just fine.


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## weimedog

Think you are going to be surprised. All the ones I stuck together were good running saws. Had to oem the gas cap and chain oil cap. Also the chain adjusters. Had one carb that wouldn't idle. A walbro from a ms660 fixed that. Also with the 56mm ones I had to die grind the metal base gasket to clear the piston skirt...wonder how many missed that and wAsted a piston or three...! And on the 56mm they all have a little free porting going on...but if it was less than .010... it didn't effect anything. I asked the huztl folks to raise the exhaust port floor .025... doubt they did ...; ( either way that saw I built last year has been excellent.


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## trboxman

Thank you for the "been there, done that" info, you'll probably save me a bit of time and coin.


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## weimedog

trboxman said:


> Well, $98.89...so call it $100. Total for the kit and shipping is $240.88


A "Steel" ,Steal? Not a Stihl but probably the best puzzle you will ever buy.... and useful when done.


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## 67L36Driver

I would venture there is a much wider market for a smaller kit saw. MS360, 440. Speaking Craigslist here.


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## Kyler Monares

weimedog said:


> A "Steel" ,Steal? Not a Stihl but probably the best puzzle you will ever buy.... and useful when done.


Your the guy I have been watching!? Just read your signature. 
Did you buy the complete kits from Huztl or individual parts from them off eBay?


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## weimedog

Kyler Monares said:


> Your the guy I have been watching!? Just read your signature.
> Did you buy the complete kits from Huztl or individual parts from them off eBay?





Kyler Monares said:


> Your the guy I have been watching!? Just read your signature.
> Did you buy the complete kits from Huztl or individual parts from them off eBay?


Did both. When I first did this they had not packaged a complete parts kit. Some folks were already selling complete built saws. I wanted to put together my own for my use. And in the beginning for me the hardest part was finding the detail parts and hardware. Discovered "devonshire" a eBay store for the screws & stuff. But with the kits it's got to save a pile of r&d time! Even if u have to pitch out some of the parts included...the time savings has to make it worth while


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## weimedog

Also look in the hotsaw/modded work saw thread as I'm not the only one who has done this. There is a thread for those who took this route.


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## backhoelover

I might have to give huztl another try. seem like maybe I just got unlucky a couple times . So y'all use a huztl Cylinder with a meteor?


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## backhoelover

Also do y'all still use there stuff for stuff that run 6-8 hr a day


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## Definitive Dave

Shoutout to Weimedog a mofo that speaks truth to power!!

A couple years ago we sold a complete FT 660 kit with a few OEM parts on Ebay they sold in spurts. None for a month and then three in a week and we were out of stock for a month till we got all the parts back in stock and then nothing for a month and then bam 5 in a week.
We sold them for @550 as best I can remember and made about $65 profit at the time. Shipping 20 pounds twice is expensive.
We built and sold maybe a dozen on Craigslist making sure every customer understood what they were for @$650.
I sold at least three to a local tree service who abused them just like the real deal and clutches and sprocket rims seemed to wear out quicker, but not crazy fast and certainly an acceptable life-span for the difference in price.
I started selling kits to a couple of local builders/flippers who buy parts from me.
The last batch I sold were 5 to one guy and three of them had the issue @weimedog described with the BB top end needing clearancing to fit properly. Of course the fitmet was so close that everything turned fine by hand but began to clatter at running speed as parts heated up and broke.

We also sold 361 and 360 kits successfully to tree services and on the Ebay.
The margins were too small for the amount of labor involved.
I would say as long as you count on spending a total of $400 you can build a pretty darn decent Aftermarket MS660 Clone.
I warn strongly against buying them preassembled (same with 260, 360, 361 and the 346, 372) they are built sweatshop assembly line style with no testing or quality control it's 50/580 you get one that even starts out of the box.

Building a Clone 660 or 361 is pretty fun and rewarding and you will likely end up with a saw that feels about 92.1% like the real deal.

The tensioner is hinky but 1/6th the price of Stihl, if you assemble it with lube and the inner side plate and then work it from end to end with a big honkin' screwdriver before going any further, you have a strong chance it will be fine.
The gears are forced to find the mesh this way and if it makes it from end to end it should be trouble free forever. If it wont go you can order a new one before the saw is all assembled.

Am carbs for the 660 are a mixed bag of mostly "Meh".

Bosch or NGK plug and a good carb are big improvements along with at least Caber rings, preferably a meteor piston or better yet p/c.
Dave

I wouldn't really run one 6-8 hours a day and I think most guys that run a saw that much are pros and might prefer the real deal even if just for the placebo effect.


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## BTarb24

Awesome info. I also watched weimedog's youtube videos which lead me to the $140 kit.. and subsequently here to this thread. I just joined the forum so I can follow along as i debate the project


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## Bedford T

After feeling the sting Dave mentioned on wholesale pricing, I ordered one. I made a list and am going oem on gaskets , seals, bearings, all rings, fuel and oil hose and that came to about $150. I have yet to receive the kit so my list could decrease or increase. That means $400 in the saw, coming in quite a bit less than retail. I will wait for a bar and chain until the funs over.

The great part everybody can get in on this at a reasonable cost, and they should. Every father son, husband wife thats not over run with kids, explorer troops, old bored people, have some fun make something useful. Cut some wood when your done.


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## ChoppyChoppy

backhoelover said:


> Also do y'all still use there stuff for stuff that run 6-8 hr a day



Yup.


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## BTarb24

I wasn't sure if the kit was going to come with a breakapart to reference during assembly so i went off on a hunt to find one. Here's one that I stumbled across that seems pretty complete. I figured I'd share it for the other guys that may try to build the kit:

I attached it to this post and have it on my google drive:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B9GpQVviuibsajhPV0dFbDRDcEk

It's a 46-page pdf breakapart that seems to contain every screw and pin on the saw. It also spans the various version variations of the 660, which may be useful for those refurbing an older model. Here's a quick screenie from one of the pages:


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## motorman1

Man, I'm torn here. I've only been building saws based upon mostly OEM main parts, with a few "high quality" AM parts thrown in. Think Meteor piston / Caber rings and Ebay AM bearings. Everything else I've used thus far has been either new OEM, or good used OEM. I've done well getting them to run, but haven't really made a nickel on any, not counting for labor, as saw rebuilding is still a hobby to me and I'm fairly slow at it. I wish you well and will be following this thread, as I too have wondered about those nearly 100% knock-off kits. Good luck and please continue to post your results / progress.


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## Kyler Monares

BTarb24 said:


> I wasn't sure if the kit was going to come with a breakapart to reference during assembly so i went off on a hunt to find one. Here's one that I stumbled across that seems pretty complete. I figured I'd share it for the other guys that may try to build the kit:
> 
> I attached it to this post and have it on my google drive:
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B9GpQVviuibsajhPV0dFbDRDcEk
> 
> It's a 46-page pdf breakapart that seems to contain every screw and pin on the saw. It also spans the various version variations of the 660, which may be useful for those refurbing an older model. Here's a quick screenie from one of the pages:


Awsome!!! Thanks for the break apart!!!!!!!!
Ordered my 660 kit today


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## Bedford T

Anyone ordering after reading this, how about one of us reporting when it arrives? I will, if no one does before, so others will know that part of the process.


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## Kyler Monares

I will report as well. However you will probably beat me to it because you ordered several days ago


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## trboxman

Ordered 8/30, shipped 9/6. I'll let you know when it shows up.


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## BTarb24

Awesome! It looks like we're going to end up with a handful of people building it at once.  I'll be sure to post my progress along with any issues/tips I come across. Thus far I've only done small engine carb work, so this will be my first small engine build. I've done full car engine builds so I'm hoping that experience is enough to get through it. I'm looking forward to the new learning experience and challenge -- and to have a larger chainsaw 

I put my order in on Sept 3. I haven't received a shipping notice yet. Sadly, i had assumed it had been packed and shipped the following day but given trboxman's post, mine is probably still sitting in a warehouse somewhere.


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## weimedog

wow...wish you all were closer! We could have a HZ660 GTG to compare notes and spend an afternoon tuning, debugging and tweaking...looking forward to how your projects progress. Pics and video's would be nice!

I ran my 56mm for a while this weekend, had to tweak the carb a bit as it was a bit fat on the low side (stalling after a minute or so idling) and a bit lean on top. A warm and humid day. A 15 second tweak later it was happy and so was I. Sometimes you forget what a crisp 90cc plus saw is like. These things will remind you...


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## trboxman

BTarb24 said:


> I put my order in on Sept 3. I haven't received a shipping notice yet. Sadly, i had assumed it had been packed and shipped the following day but given trboxman's post, mine is probably still sitting in a warehouse somewhere.



I didn't get a shipping notice, I got the status from there site under My Account-->Order History--right hand side of the page, middle way down is a "Status" line. Underneath "Status" are two icons, click on the icon that looks like a magnifying glass over a document. That will bring up the details of your order. The tracking number on mine doesn't seem to map to any of the standard Chinese shipping services...but I'm not really worried about it either. It'll show up when it shows up.

I've been busy getting my shop and tooling ready (have to dig out my 20ton press ) as well as ordering incidentals like Three Bond, MityVac 8500, etc.


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## Bedford T

I ordered yamabond 4 this morning. I have some hylomar blue I plan on using instead of dirko ht. Wrote the superlube folks and asked if their synthetic grease would be a good fit for the bearings and they said yes, so along with Lucas assembly lube I should be good to go. I will have to borrow the use of a press. Mityvac would be helpful and so will a good tach.


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## trboxman

I use super lube clear on almost everything...from bicycles to turbo charger assembly. As far as assembly lube, I'm going to use mix oil, that's what it's going to run with so I'm reasonably confident that it'll start with it just fine.


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## Kyler Monares

threebond or loctite 515? stirring the pot!!!!!!!!

ill just use the stihl 2 stroke oil to lube up engine parts during assembly, its not like there are valves seats or cam shafts to break in........


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## backhoelover

DONT USE LUCAS ASS OIL. I did that once and never done it again. It make the engine so hard to turn over, so hard you could not pull it fast enough to start. Used very little. I have to take the saw engine back apart and get the Lucas ass oil washed off. Then I used the gray Stihl had mix then all way fine


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## Kyler Monares

trboxman said:


> I use super lube clear on almost everything...from bicycles to turbo charger assembly. As far as assembly lube, I'm going to use mix oil, that's what it's going to run with so I'm reasonably confident that it'll start with it just fine.


 superlube (grey tube)? that stuff is awsome!!! use it on all my pistols and rifles. makes the slides and bolts smooth as glass!!!!!! i swear by that suff


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## weimedog

This thread is going to be awesome....LOVE learning stuff from those who are actually doing things..
Me? I use two stoke oil for assembly oil......cheap and it will burn away. Excellent mosquito repellent.
Tried a few products but the "chicken" part of me always goes back to stuff that's familiar so Three Bond Brand harkens from my motorcycle days and is what I still use now,


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## Bedford T

weimedog will the tracking work before its delivered? i ordered on the 2nd, shipped on the 9th. the tracking number does not work. the help article that message linked to said if it does not work contact the shipper because the tracking number is likely fake.
signed
nervous nellie

counting the days to santa arrives


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## weimedog

Mine did for the most part. in eBay. They were spot on actually. I had one deal where the package was lost in customs and they sent me another one.


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## Bedford T

They don't sell the kit on eBay. Oh well! Thanks. I knew you bought more than one. I figured it would be same dealing with them. Maybe, Maybe not.


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## BTarb24

You should be happy that you have a tracking number at all  Mine still says Pending 9 days after I placed the order.


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## weimedog

I did all the huztl parts on ebay. Took two to four weeks. The bigger the box of parts the longer it took


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## Bedford T

Ordering on eBay is safer they can't screw ya. The kits were not available. I am not sure I would want to send them 10,000$ in a parts order if they have tracking issues, like issuing valid numbers.


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## weimedog

So where are you ordering them from?? You might be better off dealing with a seller on this side of the pond with them in stock or at least most of one. Huztl has always been easy to work with on eBay. Looks like they quit selling almost complete kits...so you would have to grab from a few auctions.


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## trboxman

I have a delivery confirmation for tomorrow. Delivery is via UPS.


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## KennyPete

Subscribed. Interested to see how these turn out.


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## trboxman

Try this site for tracking:

http://www.sf-express.com/cn/en/dynamic_functions/waybill/

I was able to get a shipping history listing using the tracking number on my online order history. But only after I used the UPS tracking info to discover the Chinese shipping company.


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## Bedford T

Awesome, I can see where mine cleared customs on monday in New york. I did not even know NY was open this weekend. Something as simple as knowing where to plug that number in. Good job. i never got but the one china post tracking number and i swear they said the number could be a fake. sf-express.com solved the problem with actual tracking.


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## Bedford T

"So where are you ordering them from??"
http://www.huztl.net

The op has the exact link in his first post.

Soon we can get on with posting build news instead of delivery news, course it all starts with the delivery.


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## blsnelling

Kyler Monares said:


> http://www.huztl.net/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=54366
> .


This link does not work for me.


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## Kyler Monares

blsnelling said:


> This link does not work for me.



Did you try it on a mobile device or computer? Their website doesn't work on my phone or iPad


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## Bedford T

The site was having issues an hour ago. I don't think they like links back. They have repositioned them before. Hit the main site first and scroll they were front page. That's why I posted just the site


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## Kostas

blsnelling said:


> This link does not work for me.



It doesn't work for me either but try this link: http://www.huztl.net/


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## Ozhoo

blsnelling said:


> This link does not work for me.



Give this one a shot

You guys need to hurry up and build one of these. It's like watching my grand-parents have sex. As much as it hurts, I can't turn away.


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## Magic_Man

Wow, I might have to order one of these. A new clean saw would be a great in the house dead of winter project.


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## Bedford T

I just finished moving some logs I cut. Taking a nap and my phone goes off and I
find a message, look on porch and its here. I will post more in a few minutes.


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## weimedog

Bedford T said:


> I just finished moving some logs I cut. Taking a nap and my phone goes off and IView attachment 525297
> find a message, look on porch and its here. I will post more in a few minutes.



Curious what the total cost was AND if it has all the hardware..


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## Bedford T

There is no packing list in the box. Here are a few more photos. Box full of packs of parts. Will make a list of packs. The plastic I handled is very sturdy. We are off to the races now. It came UPS overnight out of JFK. I am in NC. No reason to snap each part. 
It would to to their advantage to let everyone know that.


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## BTarb24

Base cost is $141. The total cost with shipping to the US was $240.88.

Sadly, my order still says pending after 10 days. I had emailed them yesterday asking if the order was OK but still haven't heard back 

@Bedford I'm curious how you ended up with UPS shipping. I was seemingly only offered USPS. I went back to 'pretend' order a new kit and here's the shipping options it gave me. On my first order i chose the Expedited USPS (odd that expedited is cheaper than standard, eh?)


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## Bedford T

Thats what I did too! I wanted everyone to know everything, we took the chance. Earlier someone mentioned the UPS thing, I never saw it on any of the paperwork, but its on the box "ups next day air saver" and the $98.89 shipping says USPS expedited and that is why I was so uneasy about the tracking, they are all about the tracking. UPS thinks each package is a football. I did not have to sign for it. I don't know where I got that idea. I think we are all safe and gonna be real happy. I have to document mine before i can play so I am doing that tonight and hopefully by night fall tomorrow I can cut wood, unless life gets in the way.


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## BTarb24

I'm not too worried about being screwed over.. i just want it to arrive so i can play with it! It's such a tease to know you ordered it 1 day before me and already have it  Maybe i'll be lucky and mine will show up tomorrow even though my order status still says pending


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## blsnelling

Kyler Monares said:


> Did you try it on a mobile device or computer? Their website doesn't work on my phone or iPad


Yes I was. Now that I'm on my laptop, I'm getting product not found for the link I quoted and it's EXTREMELY slow to load any page.


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## Bedford T

Box contains these packages/bags each, described without looking at part list, so this gives an idea of what is in box.

tank/handle body
handle
top plastic w/660
air filter cover plastic
clutch cover
bag with screws
interplate w/washers and clips
flywheel
air filter
exhaust
crank
carb
hand brake handle
rim sprocket 3/8 7t
oil pump
rubber stuff
bearings, adjuster, support etc
gas caps
gaskets
coil
cylinder/piston
clutch
air filter frames, both
chain brake
caps
starter pulley
brake cover
crankcase, both sides
carb spacer

@ blsnelling try just going to website without using a link


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## BTarb24

their website has been crazy slow absolutely every time i've used it, so no surprise there.

Ozhoo's link worked fine for me. Though, here is a shorter variant just in case it helps you.
http://www.huztl.net/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=54394

Edit:
Here is the exact product name:
*COMPLETE PARTS FOR STIHL MS660 066 ENGINE MOTOR CRANKCASE CRANKSHAFT CARBURETOR CYLINDER PISTON CHAINSAW*

and here's how to browse to it:

go to the main page: http://www.huztl.net/

Hover over "Stihl Parts" in the main header
Choose Stihl 066 MS660 (99)
Sort by price High > Low
The kit should now be listed first with a price of $141.99


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## Bedford T

*caution caution caution
*
_*when *_you open the bag with the crankcase half's do it over a tub or something. I opened the bag and I heard a thumb as something fell into the bottom of the trash can I was standing over. It turned out it was a locating pin. I found it by picking through the garbage and using a magnet. 

the bearing and seals are in their place???????already.


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## blsnelling

Complete 036/360 - http://www.huztl.net/index.php?rout...7858&product_id=54395&sort=p.price&order=DESC

Complete MS361 - http://www.huztl.net/index.php?rout...7858&product_id=54395&sort=p.price&order=DESC

Complete 066/660 - http://www.huztl.net/index.php?rout...7862&product_id=54394&sort=p.price&order=DESC

Complete 372XP - http://www.huztl.net/index.php?rout...7869&product_id=54397&sort=p.price&order=DESC


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## blsnelling

Bedford T said:


> *caution caution caution
> *
> _*when *_you open the bag with the crankcase half's do it over a tub or something. I opened the bag and I heard a thumb as something fell into the bottom of the trash can I was standing over. It turned out it was a locating pin. I found it by picking through the garbage and using a magnet.
> 
> the bearing and seals are in their place???????already.


Don't you know that there are always supposed to be spare parts after putting something together?


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## Bedford T

Somebody willing to help me with this? I wanted to use oem bearings so i must remove these first. Even the seals are in there and I would have placed the seals after the crank is in place. What are the thoughts on removing? installing the crank as is? I have never done this. but that is what made sense to me. here are some up close photos.


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## BTarb24

If you want to install as is then the seals will likely just pop out from the act of pressing the crank through the bearings.. so the result is that you'll be installing the seals after the crank is installed anyway. (i'd just remove the seals before trying to install the crank just to ensure the crank doesn't pinch the edges and ruin the seal)

If you want to use OEM bearings then you'll have to press the old bearings out. If you don't want to use a press (or don't have one) then you can go to harbor freight and pick up a cheap bearing puller. It should be cake to use since you can just hook the remover's legs inside the bearing due to the crank not being installed.

harbor freight puller that should work fine to extract those bearings($23):
http://www.harborfreight.com/3-jaw-pilot-bearing-puller-4876.html
you may want to stick a block of wood under those posts to even out the pressure on the case.


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## blsnelling

You're going to use their crankshaft, right? Why replace the main bearings?


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## Bedford T

@ BTarb24, I wonder how yours will arrive? Installed/not? As I am sure you are too! let us know. surely yours will come tomorrow unless they are out of stock on something, they don't communicate








. Thanks for the puller info.

@blsnelling the bearings are in my mind are an item that could be improved on in my budget. If i could afford a stihl crank i would likely just buy all oem engine parts. At this point a little over thinking is not costly. If I had experience I might be able to provide you with a better answer. Like the gaskets, little things that may have a long term positive effect on the life of the saw, were the things I considered. Also in a discussion with someone who has done the kits they made that recommendation. I will sleep on it. Might just use them and keep going. I had a plan, not, bad or ugly, it threw a wrench in it.

Would you replace them if you bought a kit?


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## Kyler Monares

Whew that cylinder looks bad. Let's see what kind of quality my cylinder will have. How does the piston look? Those cases don't look half bad

Haha It's pretty cool that you guys ordered your kits before I did. I thought I was going to be the Guinea Pig


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## Bedford T

"Haha It's pretty cool that you guys ordered your kits before I did. I thought I was going to be the Guinea Pig"
glad to help out.

here is 4 of the piston. i have give out on the pictures. i have asked for another cylinder i see a crack near one of the ports. that will definitely slow me down. bummer.


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## trboxman

Mine arrived as well. I haven't had a chance to dig in other than open the box and paw around and open the handle assembly 'cause I couldn't resist...and I won't have a chance to do anything with it till this weekend at the earliest.

The next step for me will be to inventory against the factory parts list posted earlier, sort by assembly/sub-assembly, plan order of assembly with check list and execute. My plan is to run exactly what I bought, no replacements, no upgrades, no modifications other than minor fitment or usability items. We'll see how successful I am...

I will say that the handle assembly is a little rougher finish than the real Stihl saws that I own, for instance the interlock lever that your palm presses in has a casting ridge that I feel much more prominently than my genuine Stihls. It's nothing that affects usability or that can't be easily fixed. I do appreciate that the trigger, choke, fuel line & filter and most of the wiring is already done. I wasn't looking forward to putting those fiddly bits together and now I don't have to fiddle with them.

I'll try to get some pics taken tomorrow and post them. I'm particularly interested to see if the machining looks like what's posted above, those tooling marks look like the machine tooling was overdue for replacement/sharpening.


----------



## trboxman

Hey Bedford, did you order that T27 t-handle wrench or was that a bonus surprise in the box?


----------



## blsnelling

Bedford T said:


> Would you replace them if you bought a kit?


No. IMHO, if you're using their crank, you might as well use their main bearings.


----------



## Bedford T

I will go with what's in box. That was helpful. 

The t wrench I ordered. I also ordered extra for clips they were in that bag as well. I have arthritis and if those little clips get away from me I can just go oh well and keep going.

They did a good job of completing the order I made. Some of the bags were not sealed completely and screws and bits could come out. After I went dumpster diving I only held the stuff over a plastic pan. So I am betting I got everything. 

I hope they don't just ignore me on the cylinder because I will order another one and put the larger bore on it. I would like to have a 36" bar and a 24" bar with me ready to go. My next group to fell has some gaint old growth

If possible I going to see a machinist this morning to see if cylinder is just ugly


----------



## Bedford T

These tidbits might be interesting.

I took the cylinder to a local machine shop and asked the guy what if anything besides being ugly was wrong with it. He said on a 2 cycle he expects to see them need deburring and he said he could see no flaws that would cause any problems except he said why is it aluminum on aluminum and of course I had no answer. He checked the quality of the metal said it should work.

I went to my local stihl dealer who is gold and talked to the mechanic about putting the crank in for me he said he did not have the tool and they never worked on saws that big...go figure? gold level and they dont have every tool!

what type sand paper should i use on the cylinder?


----------



## blsnelling

Bedford T said:


> what type sand paper should i use on the cylinder?


I doubt it needs anything more than a stone to bevel/de-bur the port edges. Sandpaper isn't going to work for that.


----------



## Bedford T

dremel kit, i got a stone.


----------



## Bedford T

I made some progress and also shot myself in the foot, not bad for a first timer. The progress was the short side of the crank went fairly easy into the case with a rubber mallet and a block of wood. I shot myself in the foot by forgetting to remove the seal on the other side. I got side tracked putting in the oil hose and filter and putting some yamabond on my pins and on one side of the case to hold my gasket in place. I put a little heat from low setting on a gun, not much before I tapped the second side and it went fairly easy too and I picked it up to judge where I was and saw the seal was still in place and was pinched, I avoided that on first side. I stopped. Another tap and it would have been sealed.

Cursed the seals being in place and then to myself for making that mistake of overlooking it. I spent another hour and half pulling on the two case sides with my hands trying to pull them apart and in the end I was actually able to separate them. The final pull was using both boot toes and both hands and it gave and came apart. Wish I would have caught that on film. both pins stayed in place

The seal is not coming off easily of the bearing. I am going to walk away from it today and look at it fresh tomorrow. man vs machine, hand to hand combat. machine 1, man 1.


----------



## blsnelling

Careful beating on the ends of the crank, even with a mallet. You could knock the crank out of balance. If you notice, the crank webs are connect by an offset pin that is only a press fit. 

It's also possible to break the end of the crank around the circlip groove.

FYI, you don't have to split the case halves to remove the seals.


----------



## Bedford T

Thanks I will stop. Unable to find anyone I could pay to use a press. I stopped @ 4 small engine places and also asked the machinist while I was there and he said he was two months behind, the 4 shops had no press. Surely they needed one. I will get on the phone tomorrow. I will keep trying.

I pulled the case apart because it would be easier for me to remove the seal. I am working with a basic tool set. I knew that fact would make it a challenge and would demand patience and persistence. I have those tools. But nothing to remove an installed seal.

I am learning and happy to do it, I will stumble. I will take time to examine the help as it's provided. 

I can buy a complete engine for $100. But then I would have never deburred a cylinder...etc. this is all very interesting to me.


----------



## Bedford T

On the cylinder I ran the stone at the slowest speed against the cut with a light touch. Stopping to check the smoothness without do more than removing the roughness the cut created

Making the piston ride as smooth as possible.

That was what was needed??? Or do I need to do more?


----------



## albert

Just use the threads on the crank and some spacers and washers to pull the crank into the bearings.


----------



## blsnelling

Bedford T said:


> On the cylinder I ran the stone at the slowest speed against the cut with a light touch. Stopping to check the smoothness without do more than removing the roughness the cut created
> 
> Making the piston ride as smooth as possible.
> 
> That was what was needed??? Or do I need to do more?


Now that you have actually debarred the ports, I'd go ahead and hit them by hand with some 220-400 grit wet/dry paper. Post up some pics.


----------



## blsnelling

Bedford T said:


> Thanks I will stop. Unable to find anyone I could pay to use a press. I stopped @ 4 small engine places and also asked the machinist while I was there and he said he was two months behind, the 4 shops had no press. Surely they needed one. I will get on the phone tomorrow. I will keep trying.
> 
> I pulled the case apart because it would be easier for me to remove the seal. I am working with a basic tool set. I knew that fact would make it a challenge and would demand patience and persistence. I have those tools. But nothing to remove an installed seal.
> 
> I am learning and happy to do it, I will stumble. I will take time to examine the help as it's provided.
> 
> I can buy a complete engine for $100. But then I would have never deburred a cylinder...etc. this is all very interesting to me.


It's all good. In case it comes across like it, I'm not trying to scold you. I'm just trying to pass along some tips for both yourself and others that are following along. I believe you'll end up with a good running saw in the end.


----------



## Bedford T

Your good. I thanked you. I got it, no problem. Teacher pupil comes across like that naturally, to me anyway. That is the whole point of the thread. Other first timers can do it too.

I am beat I will get paper tomorrow and post. I wrestled those half's today and this old man is tuckered. I kept thinking about that cylinder and just had to do one more thing...i am like that..get consumed and love every second


----------



## Bedford T

ok, now i want my money back. no foil is included. ;-)


----------



## a. palmer jr.

I think I'll sit this one out...not crazy about the 660 saws anyway, I'm more the 346XP type...Now if they have a MS390 kit at a lower price I might be interested. I think they already have all the parts for a MS390 just not sure they're in a kit.


----------



## trboxman

a. palmer jr. said:


> I think I'll sit this one out...not crazy about the 660 saws anyway, I'm more the 346XP type...Now if they have a MS390 kit at a lower price I might be interested. I think they already have all the parts for a MS390 just not sure they're in a kit.



nope, they don't have a kit.


----------



## blsnelling

It's a real bummer that shipping adds another $100 to the cost.


----------



## 67L36Driver

a. palmer jr. said:


> I think I'll sit this one out...not crazy about the 660 saws anyway, I'm more the 346XP type...Now if they have a MS390 kit at a lower price I might be interested. I think they already have all the parts for a MS390 just not sure they're in a kit.



The MS360 kit looks yummy to me. And, much more useful in the long run.

Maybe next month. The Visa bill you know.[emoji16]


----------



## blsnelling

67L36Driver said:


> The MS360 kit looks yummy to me. And, much more useful in the long run.
> 
> Maybe next month. The Visa bill you know.[emoji16]


If I were to build one I'd probably go with the MS361.


----------



## a. palmer jr.

67L36Driver said:


> The MS360 kit looks yummy to me. And, much more useful in the long run.
> 
> Maybe next month. The Visa bill you know.[emoji16]


I already have an 034 converted to 036 and a 361. Actually I have 2 390 saws too and a 290 so I'm pretty good in the medium size saw category..
One of my favorite saws to use is my MS280 but I don't hear much about them..


----------



## BTarb24

blsnelling said:


> It's a real bummer that shipping adds another $100 to the cost.


It'd certainly be great if the shipping weren't so high, but $240 isn't too shabby.. even if you have to build it yourself  It seems a going rate for even a 20 year old 066 is up around $500-600.


----------



## a. palmer jr.

BTarb24 said:


> It'd certainly be great if the shipping weren't so high, but $240 isn't too shabby.. even if you have to build it yourself  It seems a going rate for even a 20 year old 066 is up around $500-600.


 The problem is when people find out that it's all Chinese parts it's not worth that much to them. A lot of buyers insist on all OEM parts and may not pay much if it has an AM piston and cylinder.


----------



## trboxman

If you leave aside the possible ethics of building and selling a clone of a real product there really isn't much difference from the real deal as in it's assembled in the USA from foreign parts. There are some fit and finish issues, I suspect there are some differences in the quality of materials, I'd also bet that fixing those items up front in manufacturing/parts spec would only add about $60 to the overall cost of the kit.

If I were to build and sell one of these I'd darned sure make 100% certain that folks understood that this is not a Stihl product, I would not put the MS660 badge on it and candidly I'd like it better if it came in different colors. I'm not certain how the mfg gets away with not being sued for using the same color scheme as a violation of Trade Dress.


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## a. palmer jr.

I guess the cloning thing is kinda hard to stop without a trade embargo..doubt that's gonna happen. Americans like cheap goods.


----------



## wombler

trboxman said:


> there really isn't much difference from the real deal as in it's assembled in the USA from foreign parts





I'm pretty sure I recognise the badge on the pics of the plastic up-thread as being the same as the one in this thread. Interestingly, the seller was quoted in there as stating it was a "genuine Stihl", so perhaps they were using the same logic?


----------



## a. palmer jr.

I think there are two versions of the cloning at least, you have the kind where US and other countries build their items in China using the same material and blueprints, supervised by the company, like at home then there are the pirates who take it on themselves to build an item using cheap materials and copying the original. One way is authorized by the company and the other is not. I don't know if Huztl falls into either category since their products don't actually have a "Stihl" label on them. Most of their packages are labeled "Farmer tech".


----------



## brandonstc6

Huztl seems to only make parts for saws that are out of production. Am I right? So it will be a long time before we see any ms 261 parts? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## a. palmer jr.

brandonstc6 said:


> Huztl seems to only make parts for saws that are out of production. Am I right? So it will be a long time before we see any ms 261 parts?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It seems they only make parts for popular saws. If they considered it worthwhile they would build parts for a Wild Thing...Their jury is probably still out on the 261. I didn't see any parts for my MS280 either..


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## brandonstc6

That makes since, I'm just going to hold onto my saw until then or until I find a junker. My saw has a good cylinder and piston but I need several parts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Kyler Monares

According to my tracking information I should receive my kit today!!!!!!
Don't worry. This thread will turn Pic heavy very soon!


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## ssm1699

I wish I had the money to jump in on this. But with having a 3yr old and a 4yr old, priorities make them the important thing. And I really have no need for a saw of this size, for the cutting that I do. But it sure would be nice to have it. I have been following this thread since it was started. Very interested in how these saws turn out.


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## trboxman

wombler said:


> I'm pretty sure I recognise the badge on the pics of the plastic up-thread as being the same as the one in this thread. Interestingly, the seller was quoted in there as stating it was a "genuine Stihl", so perhaps they were using the same logic?



No, I'm pretty sure that guy is a straight up liar and should know better. Remember I wasn't trying to make a qualitative comparison. I'm not sure that anyone has established longevity on these...and as I've said above there are some very distinct qualitative differences already apparent in the plastic and the machining. Now with that said, it may be completely fit for use and fit for purpose but only time will tell that. I know I likely won't ever come close to wearing it out and from that perspective I think it's a pretty damned good deal on a saw that's "good enough" for my needs.


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## a. palmer jr.

I have three or four Stihl saws that aren't complete Stihl. I don't necessarily think that OEM is always better, I remember my hot rod days and OEM parts were never better on those...


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## a. palmer jr.

trboxman said:


> No, I'm pretty sure that guy is a straight up liar and should know better. Remember I wasn't trying to make a qualitative comparison. I'm not sure that anyone has established longevity on these...and as I've said above there are some very distinct qualitative differences already apparent in the plastic and the machining. Now with that said, it may be completely fit for use and fit for purpose but only time will tell that. I know I likely won't ever come close to wearing it out and from that perspective I think it's a pretty damned good deal on a saw that's "good enough" for my needs.


 Unless you happen to get a defective part the saw would be well above anythiing you would need unless you're a logger, then you might want to stick with original.


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## weimedog

Watching this thread. I used heat differential method & a press to put things together. Had no issues. On the 54mm cylinder I just cleaned up the intake to make it symmetric and the edges of the transfers need help. The 56mm was a better looking casting but had a mild Freeport issues because they shortened the piston shirts. . both sides...and they do run despite all the gnashing of theeth. Have run the bearings and seals that came with the cases this last year. No issues. Have to say my cylinders were better than the one in that pic!


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## weimedog

I havee a couple 54mm topends yanked in favor of the 56mm versions.  I'll look and see if they are as bad. One thing i find its interesting is some of the commentary ...at this price point its easy to over analysis... if your not comfortable with the concept... their are so many options why waste time considering and analysing? I had a lot of fun with them. I also went into it expecting to have problems to solve. That was part of the challenge. What I ended up with far surpassed my expectations. Even with the warts. Looks like you folks will beat the 400 Mark I was shooting for....and think about what you will have learned and the class of capability in that machine. The comparisons with OEM is a bit rediculous unless you can buy a 90cc oem saw for the same money and the volumn of these won't impact sales of the true oem pro level saws simply because 1000 bucks isnt enough more to make it worth the risk! So whats left are saw geeks like us often with way too many saws already...

Im looking forward to what you folks produce. Makes me feel more sane seeing others launch off the cliff....


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## a. palmer jr.

The only reason for me to buy one of these or a Stihl 660 would be to re-sell and I doubt I could do very well on a non OEM saw. Seems that buyers on ebay want OEM saws but at aftermarket prices..


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## weimedog

a. palmer jr. said:


> The only reason for me to buy one of these or a Stihl 660 would be to re-sell and I doubt I could do very well on a non OEM saw. Seems that buyers on ebay want OEM saws but at aftermarket prices..




Which means we have a different focus. I see these as roll your own. And there are many bits and pieces that can be added to the mix to improve a build. Be nice if there was a kit that had the better bits and pieces.


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## Kyler Monares

weimedog said:


> Which means we have a different focus. I see these as roll your own. And there are many bits and pieces that can be added to the mix to improve a build. Be nice if there was a kit that had the better bits and pieces.


I bet someone could by these kits in bulk. Then combine them the meteor P&C's and maybe OEM fuel lines and carbs, and sell them for profit... How big would the customer base be however


----------



## blsnelling

Where are you going to draw the line if you start subbing in OEM parts? Bearings? Crank? Seals? Carb? Might as well buy and rebuild a used OEM saw. JMHO.


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## weimedog

blsnelling said:


> Where are you going to draw the line if you start subbing in OEM parts? Bearings? Crank? Seals? Carb? Might as well buy and rebuild a used OEM saw. JMHO.



I have articulated where that line was for me in a variety of ways and venues. It is something everyone would have to decide based on budget and desired end result. Fact is if a person twists and turns on that subject they should go straight to a dealer and buy OEM in my mind. There are personality types / skill set mixes that will really get a lot out of these things and others who frankly should stay away. And how a person approaches the definition of success or failure obviously is part of that mix. I can't determine what's right for anyone else...just what worked for me...


----------



## weimedog

Kyler Monares said:


> I bet someone could by these kits in bulk. Then combine them the meteor P&C's and maybe OEM fuel lines and carbs, and sell them for profit... How big would the customer base be however


I'm certain there will be some who do that..and I guess complete saws can be had through Alibaba channels. Couple of changes and a capable saw can be had out of these parts. My focus was testing the parts as a way to extend the useful life of those old stihls and ended up with a fairly complete saw with a couple of oem parts that has served me well for the last year and a half.


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## Kyler Monares

And huztl/farmertec parts to fix skidder modified saws is I think the perfect use for their parts! My kit hasent shown up yet. Now my tracking number says delayed? Going to have to give Huztl a call and see what's up


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## a. palmer jr.

blsnelling said:


> Where are you going to draw the line if you start subbing in OEM parts? Bearings? Crank? Seals? Carb? Might as well buy and rebuild a used OEM saw. JMHO.


 That's what many of us do. I use a few AM parts if they're not critical but I've tried the P/C kits also.


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## weimedog

Kyler Monares said:


> And huztl/farmertec parts to fix skidder modified saws is I think the perfect use for their parts! My kit hasent shown up yet. Now my tracking number says delayed? Going to have to give Huztl a call and see what's up



I had a similar situation and it took a while but they (Huztl) made it right. There is a lot that goes on between them and us. And there are time we don't have control of the shipping and neither do they. And huztl always made things right for me this last couple of years and I'm not even a dealer or volume buyer


----------



## Bedford T

This is the muffler that's included. there is no screen. 





i did not have time to get the sandpaper for the jug, maybe tomorrow.


----------



## Bedford T

the spark plug is actually branded nothing else is.
Farmer Tec

the small rubber piece goes into the oil pump. At least that is what I think it is from watching weimedogs video. Its packed with the caps. Its small don't let it get gone.


----------



## weimedog

Bedford T said:


> the spark plug is actually branded nothing else is.
> Farmer Tec
> 
> the small rubber piece goes into the oil pump. At least that is what I think it is from watching weimedogs video. Its packed with the caps. Its small don't let it get gone.




has on my saws, they oil just fine..

there were two rubber parts, one is a very short hose or "O" ring between the pump and the cases and the other is effectively a spring and really wasn't obvious at first where it went....and If I remember there was another that looked like the one for the pump that actually was to protect the ignition wire where they entered the case...


----------



## Bedford T

The clutch cover is metal with a big rubber deflector.

the starter is metal and actually feels as good as my oems when you pull the pawls seem to engage quickly, which is different that I expected, maybe an improvement?


----------



## weimedog

Bedford T said:


> The clutch cover is metal with a big rubber deflector.
> 
> the starter is metal and actually feels as good as my oems when you pull the pawls seem to engage quickly, which is different that I expected, maybe an improvement?


I would put a drop of oil on the abrasive disc and it would quite things and smooth things...BUT like I found with the Husqvarna parts. its possible they have improved those starters...


----------



## Bedford T

"If I remember there was another that looked like the one for the pump that actually was to protect the ignition wire where "

The handle was already assembled and that rubber piece is in place. There is a photo.

"I would put a drop of oil on the abrasive disc and it would quite things and smooth things"

Smooth as silk right now and quiet, so it is an improvement. Still not a bad idea.

On the rubber piece there is an O-Ring in the bag with the chain adjuster. I have yet to open the oiler. I did not want anything getting away from me.


----------



## Bedford T

weimedog said:


> Curious what the total cost was AND if it has all the hardware..


I am fairly sure it has all the parts. I have had it long enough to go over it thoroughly. Mine did not have the foil heat shield. It has the handle complete so the rubber bag also contains the two fuel hoses so those are extra. The handle being complete is a total plus. The tank vent in place was a nice surprise. I put my screws in containers left a few in bags. I guess I should post those pics


----------



## brandonstc6

When I rebuilt my ms 440 I used some of that aluminum foil duct tape with the peel off backing and it seems to work well. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Bedford T

edit, i reshot the photos on further down and put labels on the parts so no one is guessing what is being discussed


I opened the rubber bag and there is a lot to understand there. I thought I saw the small fuel hose but i was wrong, only one extra. Maybe somebody can identify some of these little ones and the washer placement, the AV are easy to figure?


----------



## weimedog

The rubber tube/o-ring above the intake boot goes to your oil pump (between the pump & case ..upper right hand side of the pump) ....and the one between the impulse pipe and o ring seal for the oil tank is the "spring" for the oil pump.


----------



## weimedog

The larger flat O-rings are the seals for the gas cap and oil tank cap...ditch them and buy OEM

The rest are pretty much obvious....anti vibs, and fuel & pulse line etc.


----------



## trboxman

weimedog said:


> I would put a drop of oil on the abrasive disc and it would quite things and smooth things...BUT like I found with the Husqvarna parts. its possible they have improved those starters...



The starter is as smooth as OEM.

I just unwrapped my cylinder and piston. The machining overall is better than the pics above, the transfer ports have smooth edges, the intake and exhaust needed the outside edges deburred. The machining center that bores and threads the decomp valve and spark plug hole look to be set for too high a feed rate as the surfaces are just on the verge of galling. The machining and finish on the piston are top notch, the cylinder walls are nicely honed with proper crosshatching.

I've found that the fasteners that are labeled can be cross referenced to OEM part numbers by searching the Huztle site for Huztle's stock number, the result will have the OEM number too. I just wished that they labeled everything rather than just some things. I have an extra fuel line and an extra chip deflector...no idea why. Also I damn near panicked because I couldn't locate the woodruff key for the flywheel/crankshaft...look in the flywheel bag, it's in its own small bag inside with the flywheel.

Now I'm going to spend some quality time with the service manual absorbing all of the disassembly/assembly descriptions and diagrams so that I can try to build a mental picture of the order of operations for a ground up build. It almost feels like I'm procrastinating...


----------



## Bedford T

weimedog said:


> The rubber tube/o-ring above the intake boot goes to your oil pump (between the pump & case ..upper right hand side of the pump) ....and the one between the impulse pipe and o ring seal for the oil tank is the "spring" for the oil pump.


please check the photo again, I marked it. Did i correctly mark it?


----------



## trboxman

I think the thing you have labeled "oil spring" is a grommet and if you move down and diagonally to the left the little rubber bit with a notched mouth is the spring for the oil pump.


----------



## Bedford T

I reshot the photos with a labeled the odd ones, or ones I am not sure about as other may not be. so we are not guessing about what is what.


----------



## trboxman

Bedford T said:


> here is a different markup? So its "A" in the different markup photo for oil pump? i will go back and change it.



Yes, I believe that's what it is. I've not opened my oil pump but it appears to already have that piece on the end. I'd wait for our friend from NY to confirm before we declare it fact...


----------



## Bedford T

weimedog said:


> The rubber tube/o-ring above the intake boot goes to your oil pump (between the pump & case ..upper right hand side of the pump) ....and the one between the impulse pipe and o ring seal for the oil tank is the "spring" for the oil pump.


check us out with the labels now!!!


----------



## Bedford T

trboxman said:


> Yes, I believe that's what it is. I've not opened my oil pump but it appears to already have that piece on the end. I'd wait for our friend from NY to confirm before we declare it fact...



I saw the pump had attachments and left it closed. The rubber bag was worth exploring on its on. first timers coming behind us will have a lot of information if we explore it all in detail. I am sure you agree.


----------



## trboxman

Bedford T said:


> check us out with the labels now!!!



#1 is gas cap gasket, #2 is oil cap gasket.


----------



## trboxman

Bedford T said:


> I saw the pump had attachments and left it closed. The rubber bag was worth exploring on its on. first timers coming behind us will have a lot of information if we explore it all in detail. I am sure you agree.



Totally agree. I have two of those plastic boxes with 20 partitions in it and am labeling each partition with what is in it, what the Huztle part number is, what the OEM part number is etc. and am working on a spreadsheet for that detail. I know I'm going to build more than one, I want to make the next one completely straightforward and simple.


----------



## Bedford T

I opened the oil pump and will store in a zip lock so I don't lose anything.


----------



## Bedford T

Looks like caps have seals on them already. And they look like different material maybe than the ones in the rubber bag?


----------



## Bedford T

the chain adjuster & chain catcher
both bearings and decomp, spark plug was in this bag as well


----------



## trboxman

The only thing that I think is missing in my kit is the winter/summer shutter for the carb airflow.

There was an "E" clip in the bag with the plug, decomp, and needle bearings. I suspect it's for the clutch/rim sprocket.


----------



## Bedford T

trboxman said:


> The only thing that I think is missing in my kit is the winter/summer shutter for the carb airflow.
> 
> There was an "E" clip in the bag with the plug, decomp, and needle bearings. I suspect it's for the clutch/rim sprocket.



you are right, the shutter is missing in mine and the eclip is also, no clips except for the cylinder kit is in mine. you may recall I said I ordered the extra clips in case I lost any, I have the clips but they are missing in the kit. The key was in the flywheel package for me as well. Did you get the foil?

so they owe us.
clips (some of us)
shutter
foil


----------



## blsnelling

Are the bottoms of the bolt heads serrated like OEM? Are they T27?


----------



## trboxman

blsnelling said:


> Are the bottoms of the bolt heads serrated like OEM? Are they T27?



No they're not serrated, but all of them have a blue anti seize on them. They are all T27. The whole thing can be assembled with a T27, 8mm (I think) nut driver and a fine flat head screwdriver.


----------



## trboxman

Bedford T said:


> Did you get the foil?



No foil. I have aluminum tape for ductwork that I'll use. I will never need the shutter, if I do aluminum tape can fix that as well.


----------



## Bedford T

Bag TM06250 *4 T27 contain SPLINE SCREW M6X25 oem 9022 371 1350 shown for cylinder. the photo is a oem and they are the same except ours is black.



blsnelling said:


> Are the bottoms of the bolt heads serrated like OEM? Are they T27?


----------



## Bedford T

here are the last three small stuff bags


----------



## trboxman

I'm slowly working through the parts list posted earlier and IDing all of the screws/bolts to their location. I've been studying each list, measuring the length&diameter of the screws...this combined with the count of each screw gives me the location. It's slow work but it takes all of the guesswork out of this.


----------



## Kyler Monares

whats the foil for?

how do your carbs look?

well im the one who turned out to be the lucky guy whos kit was lost. they have no idea where it is. I talked to huztl yesterday and they said they were going to track it down or send out a new one....... 

im thinking about cancelling the order and going with the 360 or 361 kit since several of you have the 660

i know the 362 is the least favorite out of all stihl pro saws, same story with the 360/361 design?


----------



## brandonstc6

It's a hear shield to protect the crankcase from the muffler 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## blsnelling

Kyler Monares said:


> i know the 362 is the least favorite out of all stihl pro saws, same story with the 360/361 design?


The 361s were some of the best 60cc saws every. The 360 is highly regarded as well.


----------



## Bedford T

Kyler Monares said:


> whats the foil for?
> 
> how do your carbs look?
> 
> well im the one who turned out to be the lucky guy whos kit was lost. they have no idea where it is. I talked to huztl yesterday and they said they were going to track it down or send out a new one.......
> 
> im thinking about cancelling the order and going with the 360 or 361 kit since several of you have the 660
> 
> i know the 362 is the least favorite out of all stihl pro saws, same story with the 360/361 design?



how did you reach them?


----------



## Kyler Monares

Sent them an email through their contact page on their website. I was suprised they got back to me so soon


----------



## Bedford T

here's the carb.


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## Bedford T

Kyler Monares said:


> Sent them an email through their contact page on their website. I was suprised they got back to me so soon[/QUO



They have ignored me and BTarb24, I think he has waited days, like me.


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## Kyler Monares

Bedford T said:


> They have ignored me and BTarb24, I think he has waited days, like me.


really? did you try their email address they have listed on ebay as well?


----------



## Bedford T

I got the cylinder cleaned up. Its smooth as a babies bottom. That was easy.


----------



## Bedford T

Kyler Monares said:


> really? did you try their email address they have listed on ebay as well?



no i did not go through ebay because i bought it outside on their website, is the ebay contact page what you used?


----------



## BTarb24

Bedford T said:


> They have ignored me and BTarb24, I think he has waited days, like me.


My order is still pending after 13 days (and has been posted on my credit card for just as long). I've used the Contact Us page and emailed them at two different email address i've found. They haven't replied to any of them. I've merely pointed out the duration of the pending state, included screenshots and order ID then asked if there's possibly anything wrong with the order. No aggressive language or anything derogatory. 

I'll try their contactUs page once more. If it still doesn't yield a reply then I guess i'll have to start the paypal dispute process :/


----------



## cedarshark

Subscribed....have to keep up on the birth of a consumer grade 90 cc saw


----------



## Kyler Monares

BedfordT 
I used their own website, not throgh ebay. 
BTarb24, you guys ordered your kits the same day didnt you? i ordered mine on the 5th.


----------



## Bedford T

Well I can't more than I have. For some reason they just do not reply to everyone.

Anybody ever take a look at those rubber piece's I marked with paper numbers?


----------



## BTarb24

Kyler Monares said:


> BedfordT
> I used their own website, not throgh ebay.
> BTarb24, you guys ordered your kits the same day didnt you? i ordered mine on the 5th.


I also ordered through their site, but on the 3rd. 

I just submitted a fourthcontact attempt (2nd via their ContactUs page on the huztl site). Hopefully they reply to me this time. Otherwise I'll have to dispute via paypal and consider the gamble of making a new order. I really just want to receive the parts .. i wish they'd just mail the darn box already :/


----------



## weimedog

cedarshark said:


> Subscribed....have to keep up on the birth of a consumer grade 90 cc saw



So what happens if you find this ends up being a pro grade saw at echo prices?


----------



## trboxman

Alright, here we go with the first cut on ID-ing all of the labeled screws. I'm certain that this isn't completely accurate and I won't be able to make it accurate until I get deeper into the build and actually use some of these screws, however it's probably 80% there. 

Along the way I did discover how to decode the Huztl part numbers, they're remarkably logical. For example:
Huztl part number TM05200 = threaded for metal, 5mm diameter, 20.0mm long - Stihl OEM part number 9022 371 1020
Huztl part number TP06215 = threaded for plastic, 6mm diameter, 21.5mm long - Stihl OEM part number 9074 478 4475

As I mentioned earlier, searching their site for the part number will give you an OEM part number to use as a reference guide. You take the OEM part number and search the .pdf that was posted a couple of pages into this thread and you can see what sub assemblies use that screw. Some screws are used in several sub assemblies. Taking part number TP06215 as an example they are used for the Handlebar Assembly, part list #4, qty 2 and for part list #9, qty 1. In the .pdf attached to this post the sub assembly and part list number are listed in Column D "Assembly Location" as: Handlebar #4-2, #9-1.

I'll make updates as I build the saw so as to make a completely accurate guide to screw locations. For those of you also building one of these feel free to send me any discoveries that you may have as you build yours and I'll add those updates in as well.

Anyhow, I hope this is useful to others.


----------



## tbohn

New member. I been reading this forum for a year or so and decided to join after reading this thread.
I ordered a complete 660 parts set on 9/6. I did receive a receive a confirmation with an order ID the same day but I have received nothing since. I emailed them on Thursday, no response so far. 

I ordered a 56mm top end and a huztl 372 complete parts set at the same time. I'm glad to see that I am not the only one that thinks buying chainsaw parts in a box from China was a good idea.


----------



## Kyler Monares

BTarb24 said:


> I also ordered through their site, but on the 3rd.
> 
> I just submitted a fourthcontact attempt (2nd via their ContactUs page on the huztl site). Hopefully they reply to me this time. Otherwise I'll have to dispute via paypal and consider the gamble of making a new order. I really just want to receive the parts .. i wish they'd just mail the darn box already :/


arghhhhh yep this is one of the downfalls of dealing with a company overseas!!!!!!!!


----------



## Kyler Monares

trboxman said:


> Alright, here we go with the first cut on ID-ing all of the labeled screws. I'm certain that this isn't completely accurate and I won't be able to make it accurate until I get deeper into the build and actually use some of these screws, however it's probably 80% there.
> 
> I'll make updates as I build the saw so as to make a completely accurate guide to screw locations. For those of you also building one of these feel free to send me any discoveries that you may have as you build yours and I'll add those updates in as well.
> 
> Anyhow, I hope this is useful to others.



Thank you so much for your hard work and research. You are surely making this project easier for myself and others who will build thease in the future!


----------



## Bedford T

@trboxman that will certainly nail nine screw placements and that's helpful. they have a system.

@kyler contacting them was a breeze for you

those seals being in place adds a unnecessary level of complexity to the build, because you should not install the crank with them in place. if you apply heat to easy the bearing installation you can damage the seals. I drove down and picked up the recommended harbor freight puller and the nubs are slightly too large to run them inside the bearing to pull. on the short side of the crank all is fine and in place. on the long side which technically is the clutch side I can not...have yet to get that seal out...and I have access to the center. i honestly did not expect to see them in place.

I have read about drilling the plate barely enough to start a drywall screw and pull from there but that bearing is so close. i am not spending $300 on one of those oil seal removers stihl has. my stihl dealer likely would charge me $50-75 and i would have to wait in line 3-4 weeks for him to get to it.

anyone got any ideas?


----------



## Kyler Monares

I guess I got really lucky about it that I at least got one response back. I haven't received anything else though


----------



## trboxman

Bedford T said:


> anyone got any ideas?



This should work: https://www.amazon.com/Lisle-58430-Shaft-Type-Puller/dp/B000FPYW4K


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## Bedford T

AWESOME!! everybody better order one your going need it. Thank goodness it not hundreds of dollars, that was a nice puller I picked up just too big.

I remembered I did all this prep work to make sure my green bu tt could do this thing and that included making lists, endless list and one of those was a fastener list. So I humbly present that, I forgot I had it, been in a tail spin over those bearing, seals.

Anyway, I went back over it and took the boxes I filled and compared to the list. At the end of the line you will find a * or a #. The * means (some) it is in the kit and the # means shorted or missing, FROM MY KIT.

They coulda done a better job on those screws, that said this was suppose to be complete and we are going to have to order a few screws. Hopefully they will send us more when we pay them again, actually send them. Foil, screws and some clips. There are some fastner packs not labeled but knowing where to look should make it a snap to find, but again you may be short or missing. Use this in conjugation with trboxman's work and we should be set.

the brake assembly looks to be missing 3, 4x10 but they could be in those unlabeled packs and 5x12, its on the list.


----------



## BTarb24

Bedford T said:


> I drove down and picked up the recommended harbor freight puller and the nubs are slightly too large to run them inside the bearing to pull.



Would you be able to grind the nubs down so that they're thinner? The HF tool isn't exactly a lifetime tool. Grinding it up a bit isn't so bad as long as it gets the job done.


----------



## weimedog

Bedford T said:


> @trboxman that will certainly nail nine screw placements and that's helpful. they have a system.
> 
> @kyler contacting them was a breeze for you
> 
> those seals being in place adds a unnecessary level of complexity to the build, because you should not install the crank with them in place. if you apply heat to easy the bearing installation you can damage the seals. I drove down and picked up the recommended harbor freight puller and the nubs are slightly too large to run them inside the bearing to pull. on the short side of the crank all is fine and in place. on the long side which technically is the clutch side I can not...have yet to get that seal out...and I have access to the center. i honestly did not expect to see them in place.
> 
> I have read about drilling the plate barely enough to start a drywall screw and pull from there but that bearing is so close. i am not spending $300 on one of those oil seal removers stihl has. my stihl dealer likely would charge me $50-75 and i would have to wait in line 3-4 weeks for him to get to it.
> 
> anyone got any ideas?



Not as much of and issue as you might think. I've used some heat on the bearing and chill the crank on Husqvarna's & Stihl's. I used a heat gun and a laser thermometer to keep the heat on the bearing under 230-240 heating from the opposite side from the seal and put the crank in my freezer. On these I used a press but it didn't need a lot to ease them together even when NO heat was applied. On the first one, I didn't turn the crank a bit to help the step get through the clutch side seal and ended up inverting the seal. Had to pop it out and put another one in. I have a seal installation tool I bought from Definitive Dave I believe but by the time it arrived had just made my own.

So your going to destroy that seal anyway if your going to yank it out...try putting that thing together first.

Also to take out the seal I drilled a small hole ALMOST through.. carefully and put in a punch to poke the rest of the way & deform that hole bigger & pushed to raise one side. Then used a seal tool...the ones with a hook like shape you get at napa to pry it out. Have to be careful on the first hole not to poke the nylon in the bearing.

SO I thought after that first experience it was going to be an issue so ordered a bunch of Huztl Bearings & seals...... also because I was impatient went to the local Stihl dealer and bought an OEM seal.....installed it. And never had another issue with the rest of those MS660's I put together so have a bunch of spares if I ever do have an issue! A couple of those saws are seen in my video's and are doing just fine. On the second & third one I was using the press to get that step to where it just started pushing on the seal. Then (it was oiled before hand) turned the crank some pushed a little more and they worked there way through. Then I got smart and built the tool that had two inside diameters, one a slip fit over the clutch side of the crank to center the tool then a step to the larger crank diameter that was coming through the seal while not allowing that seal to curl back....like the stihl seal installation tool. Had a larger OD to support the bearing outer race as I pressed the entire mess together. Used it twice with no issue.

A litany of my experience with saw 2 & 3 BEFORE special tools


----------



## Bedford T

BTarb24 said:


> Would you be able to grind the nubs down so that they're thinner? The HF tool isn't exactly a lifetime tool. Grinding it up a bit isn't so bad as long as it gets the job done.




i am sorry i was not creative enough to think of that. Very thankful there are helpful people here to steer ya. I will look closely at it and take a run at it. great idea. I will report. should the seal be out first or can i pull them both out together?


----------



## Chris-PA

weimedog said:


> I had a lot of fun with them. I also went into it expecting to have problems to solve. That was part of the challenge. What I ended up with far surpassed my expectations. Even with the warts. Looks like you folks will beat the 400 Mark I was shooting for....and think about what you will have learned and the class of capability in that machine. The comparisons with OEM is a bit rediculous unless you can buy a 90cc oem saw for the same money and the volumn of these won't impact sales of the true oem pro level saws simply because 1000 bucks isnt enough more to make it worth the risk! So whats left are saw geeks like us often with way too many saws already...
> 
> I'm looking forward to what you folks produce. Makes me feel more sane seeing others launch off the cliff....


I agree entirely. When I did my Chinese G621 clone it was with exactly the mindset, but some could not get past the idea of comparing it to a factory OEM saw. It was fun and by substituting my time and ability I got a nice running saw. They are surely not for everyone, and I said at the time that I considered it to be a saw kit that needed almost a complete tear down and going over before use. I also said I would have rather had a box of parts and assemble it myself rather than having to try to find and fix the assembly mistakes already made, which is what this is. You can clean up the casting and molding flash before mounting other parts, which they didn't do on mine. 

Although I did not have to deal with bearings and seals as that was all assembled and has worked fine. The only OEM parts I ended up using were some A/V bushing retainers and an air filter retainer nut, as the parts I got were just not well made. 

I'd like to have one of the 372 kits, but I would rarely use it as the G621 clone does all I need for wood I have around here.


----------



## Bedford T

@weimedog "Not as much of and issue as you might think." so says the guy with the press, who resorted to the press when approaching this the first times.

I still think the seals in place adds a unnecessary level of complexity. But, its OK because others can now already be aware as we chart our build progress. There will be guys with or without and if we share the have not side also all can share and be joyful. Like those tips you gave on how to drill and use the punch. i am onboard for the basic way. if i build more than 3 I will buy tools.

Actually this is a much bigger lesson all the way around. thats what we are doing here. charting the course. together. define the problem or step, discuss solutions, explore and execute, evaluate.

I think it would require less drama to instruct first timers, soak the seal in assembly lube and... place the seal and press downward with both thumbs working it in... like in the stihl repair bible. again in support of my quoted statement.

i have watched all those video 5-8 times before i placed the order and took away this guy has knowledge and tools i don't have better find something i can minic.

all the tips are appreciated.

all in all this is way cool, each contributing what we can for each other...something like a village. i am not surprised, it is everything I expected. except the seals.





weimedog said:


> Not as much of and issue as you might think. I've used some heat on the bearing and chill the crank on Husqvarna's & Stihl's. I used a heat gun and a laser thermometer to keep the heat on the bearing under 230-240 heating from the opposite side from the seal and put the crank in my freezer. On these I used a press but it didn't need a lot to ease them together even when NO heat was applied. On the first one, I didn't turn the crank a bit to help the step get through the clutch side seal and ended up inverting the seal. Had to pop it out and put another one in. I have a seal installation tool I bought from Definitive Dave I believe but by the time it arrived had just made my own.
> 
> So your going to destroy that seal anyway if your going to yank it out...try putting that thing together first.
> 
> Also to take out the seal I drilled a small hole ALMOST through.. carefully and put in a punch to poke the rest of the way & deform that hole bigger & pushed to raise one side. Then used a seal tool...the ones with a hook like shape you get at napa to pry it out. Have to be careful on the first hole not to poke the nylon in the bearing.
> 
> SO I thought after that first experience it was going to be an issue so ordered a bunch of Huztl Bearings & seals...... also because I was impatient went to the local Stihl dealer and bought an OEM seal.....installed it. And never had another issue with the rest of those MS660's I put together so have a bunch of spares if I ever do have an issue! A couple of those saws are seen in my video's and are doing just fine. On the second & third one I was using the press to get that step to where it just started pushing on the seal. Then (it was oiled before hand) turned the crank some pushed a little more and they worked there way through. Then I got smart and built the tool that had two inside diameters, one a slip fit over the clutch side of the crank to center the tool then a step to the larger crank diameter that was coming through the seal while not allowing that seal to curl back....like the stihl seal installation tool. Had a larger OD to support the bearing outer race as I pressed the entire mess together. Used it twice with no issue.
> 
> A litany of my experience with saw 2 & 3 BEFORE special tools


----------



## trboxman

weimedog said:


> .....BEFORE special tools



I'd love a run down of how you do it now AFTER special tools. Especially those that make life a lot easier vs. just making do.


----------



## Bedford T

Ok, here the proof cavemen can participate. I admit an unfair advantage, I own a harbor freight bench top drill press. I followed directions and drilled the holes used a slightly bigger screw driver and the punch and removed the buggered up seal I had been picking at.
Yeah me. I could not see damage from the removal affecting the bearing. Its not smooth anymore and thats likely the failed install. i will clean it and see if it makes a difference. I did it. THANK YOU, sirs


----------



## Bedford T

The bearing is fine, it just had some bits in it that i flushed out. guess i just need to order the seal and think i will look at the washer idea stacked and slipped over the threaded foot of the crank and close it with a nut and devise some way to pull it through the case while i wait for seal delivery. 

it appears I tore the gasket around the locating pin. should i get another gasket or patch it with yamabond? maybe better replace?


----------



## Bedford T

that's fairly simple. buy the tools. they have a puller that's almost $300 and they have seal installers costing less. in fact i have a list of special tools you can order. take a look at the repair bible. they must have 15 special tools, some of them are real special. the one that pulls has different attachments. man thats heaven to have the right tool for the right situation. Peruse the list I included, if you had those tools would you be asking questions?



trboxman said:


> I'd love a run down of how you do it now AFTER special tools. Especially those that make life a lot easier vs. just making do.


----------



## Bedford T

i just just talked to a true stihl guy and invited him to join in here. hes a gold mechanic whether he speaks up i bet he watches, it was of interest to him, just like us. he saw the crankcase and crank we discussed putting it together and he recommends the washer trick and applying heat. he had used heat and the freezer in the past.


----------



## davhul

That's what I do. Sometimes the lady in the office asks what's in the freezer. Is he in here? if he's planing on going to the platinum class I know 4 others from around the country that might sign up for the same date. May not be this year


----------



## Bedford T

he is the man around here. 

does anyone know what the threads are on the crank clutch side? what nut i would use. i want to slip some washers over the end and pull on them.

i got out the service manual and it says to fit two m5x72 screws into the clutch side of the case and tighten the down until they stop, to prevent twisting, i missed that before. that would help even if you used a different tool

thanks


----------



## davhul

It's left handed metric. What I did was weld a 1/2" nut to a old clutch Carrier


----------



## Bedford T

Ok thanks ,Would you dumb that down some for me? what's the thread size so I can find the right one to use?


----------



## trboxman

Case, crank, flywheel, piston & cylinder are together.

I pushed the PTO side oil seal out from the inside with a small screwdriver prior to pressing the crank in the case. Flywheel side is no bother at all. I didn't use heat or cold, just oil and the brute force of a 20ton press. I don't like pressing it together. I'll fab up a puller for the next one I do. I ordered a Chinese clutch and an extra flywheel nut to use in the fab of the pullers.


----------



## jackjcc

The Huztl web site doesn't seem to be working. Tried the computer and no dice there. Anybody able to get on it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Bedford T

That's great. I just checked the flywheel nut and it does not fit on the clutch side.
Good idea.

@jack use the desktop site on your phone browser or go to your desktop


----------



## jackjcc

I did try the computer, no dice


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## trboxman

I'm on their site right now and it's working for me with no issues.


----------



## jackjcc

Damn...what's the deal...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Bedford T

post some pics




trboxman said:


> Case, crank, flywheel, piston & cylinder are together.
> 
> I pushed the PTO side oil seal out from the inside with a small screwdriver prior to pressing the crank in the case. Flywheel side is no bother at all. I didn't use heat or cold, just oil and the brute force of a 20ton press. I don't like pressing it together. I'll fab up a puller for the next one I do. I ordered a Chinese clutch and an extra flywheel nut to use in the fab of the pullers.


----------



## MustangMike

11 pages and nothing running yet???


----------



## weimedog

MustangMike said:


> 11 pages and nothing running yet???





Why do you keep a "sold" saw in the list? I'm guessing that MMWS = Mustang Mike Work Saws.... These guys may not have enough "cool" letters to label their "built by them" saws. BT660? I for one appreciate those who would build & mod their own. Shows initiative, capability, in some cases creativity; along with learning some new skills....good stuff. And makes for an interesting thread for others who might join them that path.


----------



## weimedog

jackjcc said:


> Damn...what's the deal...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Wonder if your browser is incompatible. Try something other that the phone?


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## jackjcc

I tried chrome web browser on my computer. I'll try explorer tomorrow. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Bedford T

That's a valid question but so far we have run into delivery issues, communication issues with that company. discovering how to do things the first time with a product very few people have any experience with..lots of saw people here but these are saw puzzles. I am in for a delay because I have to order one seal and the gasket. trboxman is likely finishing his saw today he overcame the only obstacle I have seen. I could find no one with a press including businesses



MustangMike said:


> 11 pages and nothing running yet???


----------



## weimedog

Bedford T said:


> That's a valid question but so far we have run into delivery issues, communication issues with that company. discovering how to do things the first time with a product very few people have any experience with..lots of saw people here but these are saw puzzles. I am in for a delay because I have to order one seal and the gasket. trboxman is likely finishing his saw today he overcame the only obstacle I have seen. I could find no one with a press including businesses




Why wait a week for a seal & gasket?? To save a dollar? Time and aggravation is worth something too.. Just go get one from a Stihl dealer. Then you can keep in the race...LOL! And if they have to order one, that's relevant information as well. Take the one you pulled out, tell them its for a ms660, and get them. Might be a minor upgrade as well with OEM seals....you really don't have to wait for the detail stuff should you mess one up or decide to upgrade. Did you pull that seal before trying to put things together?  Mine were OEM blends as I've mentioned several times and learning these other sources of parts is important to the saw puzzle types as well. The two points being you really don't have to think in a linear fashion when doing these type projects AND as others before have found, you can significantly upgrade the "weak spots" on these AM parts saw by tactically replacing the less desirable parts with OEM...to me all part of the adventure.

( And as time has gone on the "hop up" mentality has kicked in for me and one of the places to start is things like better carbs. Along with the rubber intake parts, Clutch drum, Chain Adjust, Decomp; I've been tuning and tweaking making my 56mm version a major part of my operation here with a tweaked 54mm as backup. The detailing and tweaking is part of the story. While I'm certain most will be successful and even happy with the parts you get from AM...those builds really can be better especially for the week in week out work living with one...  )


----------



## MustangMike

Don't be gettin me in trouble with Master Mind now! I currently have 9 running saws, and others in the works, so I stopped up dating the info.


----------



## Bedford T

@weimedog yes I tried and it pinched and deformed. Now that I am an "expert" at removing preinstalled seals I would say on clutch side pinching is likely to happen.

I was not apologizing to the guy, I was looking at the page count like he. several pages devoted to just getting on the site, or getting them to communicate both unfortunate. It's not a race for me and I might come in last, so what. It's the journey. Most are already yawning.

The guy that made the first hurdle has yet to show us. I documented parts, fasteners, issues. I would love to "see" progress.

I did find a retired Stihl tech who said he could pull crank in for me and he said in the same breath I walking out the door for a 10 day vacation call me the week of the 25th.

So I have had to adjust my expectations that have certainly flirted with disappointment.. I will get there and it will be so sweet.

I wish I could film it all, it's not working out that way. Taking pics is best I can do for the build process.


----------



## weimedog

Bedford T said:


> @weimedog yes I tried and it pinched and deformed. Now that I am an "expert" at removing preinstalled seals I would say on clutch side pinching is likely to happen.
> 
> I was not apologizing to the guy, I was looking at the page count like he. several pages devoted to just getting on the site, or getting them to communicate both unfortunate. It's not a race for me and I might come in last, so what. It's the journey. Most are already yawning.
> 
> The guy that made the first hurdle has yet to show us. I documented parts, fasteners, issues. I would love to "see" progress.
> 
> I did find a retired Stihl tech who said he could pull crank in for me and he said in the same breath I walking out the door for a 10 day vacation call me the week of the 25th.
> 
> So I have had to adjust my expectations that have certainly flirted with disappointment.. I will get there and it will be so sweet.
> 
> I wish I could film it all, it's not working out that way. Taking pics is best I can do for the build process.



Why not Stick them together w/o the seals and see if definitive Dave has a seal driver & if your local dealer has the gaskets and seals. Of course the other option for those who feel nervous about that operation...they sell short block 660s cheap on ebay


----------



## trboxman

A few pics. I don't document these things like a helecoper mom on a family vacation so there's lots of stuff not pictured.


----------



## weimedog

trboxman said:


> A few pics. I don't document these things like a helecoper mom on a family vacation so there's lots of stuff not pictured.



Awesome!


----------



## weimedog

davhul said:


> I ordered the 660 kit yesterday myself. I'm a stihl tech and I was interested how the quality is on this $240 saw in a box. So what the heck.
> I plan on putting the case together with my stihl case splitter-installer. The Stihl tool makes it easy to pull the crank through the halfs as that's the only way I've done it and only takes 15 min. I'm going to do it at my shop at home I'm sure Stihl probably wouldn't like it. They were talking about the stihl clones at the gold class in Virginia Beach I went to the and people selling them out of the trunk of their car. I can't see that being the case as it take someone with a little know how to put them together. When I do finally get the saw I'll post pics of it going together. .



It does take some skills and ability to adapt & innovate at times. The thing that also has to be entered into the discussion....the resultant saw isn't for a novice either! Big Heavy Powerful saws when done.


----------



## trboxman

Oh, and for anyone wondering why I'm not done, the answer is really simple. This isn't a priority item for me. It's a way of whiling away the time while the weather is nasty during the fall and winter. Yesterday was our first good rain of the fall season with leaves and maple seeds flying everywhere in addition to the seemingly unending series of rain squalls. It was perfect day for tinkering. In addition to getting the basics done on the saw I made a weedeater/brushcutter vise from a wall mount bicycle vise, I put together my swiveling chainsaw work positioning vise, rebuilt the carb on my leaf blower and a couple of other minor things...


----------



## trboxman

Oh, and to put all of this in perspective; 3 weeks ago I'd never done anything on a 2 stroke more complex than changing the spark plug, nothing more technical on a chainsaw than changing the bar and chain.


----------



## weimedog

trboxman said:


> Oh, and for anyone wondering why I'm not done, the answer is really simple. This isn't a priority item for me. It's a way of whiling away the time while the weather is nasty during the fall and winter. Yesterday was our first good rain of the fall season with leaves and maple seeds flying everywhere in addition to the seemingly unending series of rain squalls. It was perfect day for tinkering. In addition to getting the basics done on the saw I made a weedeater/brushcutter vise from a wall mount bicycle vise, I put together my swiveling chainsaw work positioning vise, rebuilt the carb on my leaf blower and a couple of other minor things...



And you pretty much described me from the priority perspective, when I did mine...winter....inside....couldn't do much else! A pass time! To that point I was running the Husqvarna's. These damn things muscled into the work rotation MUCH to the chagrin of my buds who are mostly Husqvarna oriented.. Guess I do have to confess I've been tearing into 2-strokes since I was a pre-teen... Old age and getting fat moved me from the dirt bikes to saws...have to scratch the mechanical itch, heat the house, And get some exercise. So Welcome to the "clutch head" club!


----------



## Kostas

Bedford T said:


> @weimedog yes I tried and it pinched and deformed. Now that I am an "expert" at removing preinstalled seals I would say on clutch side pinching is likely to happen.
> 
> I was not apologizing to the guy, I was looking at the page count like he. several pages devoted to just getting on the site, or getting them to communicate both unfortunate. It's not a race for me and I might come in last, so what. It's the journey. Most are already yawning.
> 
> The guy that made the first hurdle has yet to show us. I documented parts, fasteners, issues. I would love to "see" progress.
> 
> I did find a retired Stihl tech who said he could pull crank in for me and he said in the same breath I walking out the door for a 10 day vacation call me the week of the 25th.
> 
> So I have had to adjust my expectations that have certainly flirted with disappointment.. I will get there and it will be so sweet.
> 
> I wish I could film it all, it's not working out that way. Taking pics is best I can do for the build process.



I don't know for this particular saw but how difficult is to push the crankshaft in the bearings?I am not try to play the expert but 2 hours ago i was messing with an Efco Stark 42 string trimmer.I was able to push down the crankshaft in the bearing with my bare hands,then i pushed the crank in the other bearing,a couple hits and the screws did the rest of the job.I was very anxious with all the things i read and i couldn't believe how easy it was.Someone sayed something about a 20 tons press,for a chainsaw crankshaft?No offence guys but..........If you put the crankshaft in the freezer,i bet it will go in the bearing very easy without the use of heat.


----------



## davhul

weimedog said:


> It does take some skills and ability to adapt & innovate at times. The thing that also has to be entered into the discussion....the resultant saw isn't for a novice either! Big Heavy Powerful saws when done.


That's very true. We have people all the time that have no business running a saw. We try to educate them but some is no hope. I would like to say first if you can't start it you might not should run it.


----------



## trboxman

No offense taken. I have a 20ton press, so I used a 20ton press. If you don't have one, don't buy one to do this job. Candidly I think this could be done with a puller for the PTO side and then use the case screws to pull it all together on the flywheel side, a couple of whacks with a hammer and brass punch to even up the side clearance and you're done.


----------



## davhul

I'll have to say watching weimedog's YouTube channel is what sealed the deal on ordering a kit. It looks like of decent quality and give me something to do for a few hours in the coming weeks


----------



## trboxman

There will be several folks on my Christmas list get a nice big surprise this year...


----------



## weimedog

davhul said:


> That's very true. We have people all the time that have no business running a saw. We try to educate them but some is no hope. I would like to say first if you can't start it you might not should run it.



That's the same with any skill ..there are those just not hardwired to tackle that type of thing...of course the other side is there are some who never knew that had the talent....and things like this opens that door.


----------



## Bedford T

thanks for joining in



davhul said:


> I ordered the 660 kit yesterday myself. I'm a stihl tech and I was interested how the quality is on this $240 saw in a box. So what the heck.
> I plan on putting the case together with my stihl case splitter-installer. The Stihl tool makes it easy to pull the crank through the halfs as that's the only way I've done it and only takes 15 min. I'm going to do it at my shop at home I'm sure Stihl probably wouldn't like it. They were talking about the stihl clones at the gold class in Virginia Beach I went to the and people selling them out of the trunk of their car. I can't see that being the case as it take someone with a little know how to put them together. When I do finally get the saw I'll post pics of it going together. .


----------



## Bedford T

i was just happy to see the halfs joined, that was nice and encouraging. 



trboxman said:


> A few pics. I don't document these things like a helecoper mom on a family vacation so there's lots of stuff not pictured.


----------



## Bedford T

i got a whole week ahead of me to make some magic happen. i am thinking and trying for example i called auto stores for tool rentals looking for 1 7/8 sockets they had only 1 1/8, i will call other shops and stihl dealers in surrounding areas. i had compound problems last week like the seal this week the next step is replacing the gasket since no one said a tore gasket was safe to use and put the case together. putting that seal in does not seam like a problem, not that one anyway it has a skirt on it. manual says to push it in place.

Even the stihl service manual talks about heating the cases and my tech recommended it, so i looked in my stash and found this gloves that are used in handling hot things so i can accurately place a hot half and a cold half. The future is bright for my saw just gotta keep it up.

An interesting note the gasket was only torn on the outside the location pin and with the yamabond i am safe to push them together





weimedog said:


> Why not Stick them together w/o the seals and see if definitive Dave has a seal driver & if your local dealer has the gaskets and seals. Of course the other option for those who feel nervous about that operation...they sell short block 660s cheap on ebay


----------



## trboxman

Time for some "lessons learned so far".

Be meticulous in making sure that all of those little bags are empty. I just had to recycle can dive to retrieve that little tiny screw that holds the bar side plate on to the case. It's the same screw that holds the chain tensioner in place. Also the tensioner seems quite passable with a dab of grease on the pinion gears and the screw slider. Work it back three or four times and it smooths right out (probably chewing itself up but what the heck). 

A generous amount of aerosol hairspray on the AV buffers make them slide in easy peasy.

Definitive Dave is going to love me 'cause I went ahead an ordered the Stihl case splitter/installer tools for both the PTO and flywheel side. I justified it to myself as it'll make building several as Christmas presents go faster. I think I'll still fab up some homemade tools to do the same job, but....


----------



## davhul

This is the tool the dealer should have to split and install the case halfs. When I went to the gold class in Virginia Beach they pulled some ms660 rejects off the assembly line and had them lazer engraved for us. They have to be within 4 microns to spec or their rejected.


----------



## davhul

Sorry here's the pic


----------



## Bedford T

what do they charge for doing it?


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## trboxman

davhul said:


> Sorry here's the pic



Yep, that's what I just ordered.


----------



## davhul

Did you get both? If you don't mine me asking how much were they. I tried looking them up in the price book but it doesn't list a price. I want to say they were over a 100 each. I was just curious


----------



## trboxman

I got both. Search on Ebay, the prices are high, more than double your guess...each...

Yes, I'm spending too much money. Yes, I do this when I decide to "get into" something. This will be the first time that the purchase of tools don't pay for themselves avoiding paying someone else to do something that I could do with the proper tools.


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## davhul

Did the ones you ordered come with the sleeves that screw on the crank for reassembly? The one I seen on eBay didn't. But the one I seen was used


----------



## MustangMike

How do these things run compared to an OEM 660? 

Is the big bore kit worth it?

Anyone got some real hours on one and know if they will stand up to milling?


----------



## davhul

Bedford T said:


> what do they charge for doing it?


If you brought a complete saw in that needed the case split for a gasket,or bearings it would be $130 labor. That's by the book. And that's if nothing else was wrong you also get a pressure vacc test afterward. But if you just brought the case in not much. I doubt any stihl dealer would touch one of these saws unless you knew them personally.


----------



## Bedford T

thats basically what happened, he said he did not have the tool.

i just spoke with the guy where he bought the tool and he says the tool for pulling a crankcase together is actually the oem crankcase splitters and the pair cost close to $500 but that does not include the closure tool and he doe not sell that, if i read it correctly.
so ouch.



davhul said:


> If you brought a complete saw in that needed the case split for a gasket,or bearings it would be $130 labor. That's by the book. And that's if nothing else was wrong you also get a pressure vacc test afterward. But if you just brought the case in not much. I doubt any stihl dealer would touch one of these saws unless you knew them personally.


----------



## Bedford T

i kept looking at my documents and the manual it says to use service tool AS then i find a updated part number that shows a stihl dealer price of $154.99, now thats the clutch side only.

and you need the two m5x72 screws installed to keep it from twisting


----------



## blsnelling

You do not need the Stihl tools to put these cases together. I install the flywheel side bearing onto the crank. I then heat the case and drop it in. If heated properly, it'll drop right in. I then install the PTO side bearing into the other case half, again using heat. I then pull the case halves together with the case bolts. Once tight you'll need to center and relieve the side load on the bearings by tapping the ends of the crank with a brass mallet. The crank should spin freely once correct.


----------



## davhul

Bedford T said:


> thats basically what happened, he said he did not have the tool.
> 
> i just spoke with the guy where he bought the tool and he says the tool for pulling a crankcase together is actually the oem crankcase splitters and the pair cost close to $500 but that does not include the closure tool and he doe not sell that, if i read it correctly.
> so ouch.


You use the same tool. When you are ready to pull the case back together there's a sleeve you screw on the crank then screw the puller to the sleeve and pull the crank back through the case. One is for the flywheel side and the other is for the pto. The kit comes with 6 sleeve I think that fits different crank sizes for the pto side. Does anyone have a video on using it. It's hard to explain.


----------



## davhul

blsnelling said:


> You do not need the Stihl tools to put these cases together. I install the flywheel side bearing onto the crank. I then heat the case and drop it in. If heated properly, it'll drop right in. I then install the PTO side bearing into the other case half, again using heat. I then pull the case halves together with the case bolts. Once tight you'll need to center and relieve the side load on the bearings by tapping the ends of the crank with a brass mallet. The crank should spin freely once correct.


Your right I've done it that way to. But if you have them it's easy to use. Most dealers don't know how to use them or don't have.


----------



## weimedog

MustangMike said:


> How do these things run compared to an OEM 660?
> 
> Is the big bore kit worth it?
> 
> Anyone got some real hours on one and know if they will stand up to milling?



http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/farmertech-ms660-milling-durability-test.297382/


----------



## blsnelling

davhul said:


> But if you have them it's easy to use.


Absolutely!


----------



## weimedog

MustangMike said:


> How do these things run compared to an OEM 660?
> 
> Is the big bore kit worth it?
> 
> Anyone got some real hours on one and know if they will stand up to milling?



Have my 56mm version thrown in with a couple of essentially stock Jonsered "Hobby" saws with similar cylinder designs but you might get a sense of where they sit on the saw stack. Again these saws were not modified much and the AM 660 was just bolted together. 



I've run mine for over a year, the 56mm version actually quite a bit...it's strong enough to get your attention but not earth shattering. For the price there isn't anything in the same league new or used which is how it should be evaluated. LOL You can get a kit for the price of those special letters at the end of your saws .. AND its something actually accomplished by you when you are done. As these folks here are learning its not a paint by the numbers type of a project, but at the end a LOT of things will be learned and understood relative to saw repair AND a very functional 90cc class saw will be ready to do real work. These type deals can open up an entire new dimension to the saw hobby....hands on learning with little risk as they are cheap.

A 36 dollar free shipping 56mm top end...same as mine. Free port issue and everything.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BIG-BORE-56...376805?hash=item51caa846e5:g:9pwAAOxyLN9SjLz2


----------



## Definitive Dave

Bedford T said:


> thats basically what happened, he said he did not have the tool.
> 
> i just spoke with the guy where he bought the tool and he says the tool for pulling a crankcase together is actually the oem crankcase splitters and the pair cost close to $500 but that does not include the closure tool and he doe not sell that, if i read it correctly.
> so ouch.



Sorry I may not have been clear in answering you on Ebay
The OEM tools DO indeed include sleeves for pulling the case back together after splitting
We also offer a universal splitter for guys that use heat to put their new cases back together and that universal (not OEM Stihl) splitter does not include the closure sleeves.
The universal splitter works on many saws that are not Stihls and is a great alternative for small shops.

I will be getting more of the OEM splitters for both sides in stock this week.
It awesome that guys are building these fun jigsaw puzzles.
Dave


----------



## Definitive Dave

$35.00
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stihl-MS660...Piston-Cylinder-with-Oil-Seals-/321653445993?


----------



## weimedog

Definitive Dave said:


> $35.00
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stihl-MS660...Piston-Cylinder-with-Oil-Seals-/321653445993?


SO what to you have for seal drivers? A link might help some. I did my cases heat differential method with a little persuasion with a 12t press....didn't take anywhere near 12T ! Just eased them using sockets. I have case assembly tools for most of the Husqvarna saws...anything like that for the 660??

I do have to point out that Definitive Dave's stuff is here so you don't have the two-four week delay through customs & shipping. That's worth something....


----------



## weimedog

And another tool that might help one person here slay their demons:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stihl-Chain...877143?hash=item4af16aa197:g:TPoAAOSwsB9WCGPn


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## davhul

weimedog said:


> And another tool that might help one person here slay their demons:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stihl-Chain...877143?hash=item4af16aa197:g:TPoAAOSwsB9WCGPn


I have the driver. Not the seal protector


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## davhul

I wonder if you put the seal protector on the crank before you slide it through the case if the seal would be ok. I always put he seals in last so I'm not sure.


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## trboxman

davhul said:


> But if you have them it's easy to use.



This isn't directed at anyone in particular.

I didn't buy the tools 'cause I needed them. I bought them because I wanted them. Same reason I bought the saw. I don't need a 90cc saw and I don't need a mechanical jigsaw puzzle, I bought it 'cause I wanted it and the challenge and, as I said earlier, because I need something to keep my occupied during the winter months. I used to make furniture, but the dust plays heck with my respiratory system. I used to build rifles, but the feds don't like hobbyists that build and sell. I used to do lots of metal fab work, but the grinding dust and welding fumes plays heck with my respiratory system...etc., etc., etc...

Clearly this can be done without anything more complex than a heat gun, a brass hammer, T27 torx, small phillips, medium flathead, 19mm socket (or scrench if you're really light on tools), straight & curved needle nosed pliers, straight & bent picks, about 14" of mason's twine and the ability to follow directions (written or video). Case sealant optional. And the one thing that makes all of this really, really easy...experience. And it's the experience that I'm gaining right now that I enjoy the most.


----------



## weimedog

trboxman said:


> This isn't directed at anyone in particular.
> 
> 
> Clearly this can be done without anything more complex than a heat gun, a brass hammer, T27 torx, small phillips, medium flathead, 19mm socket (or scrench if you're really light on tools),



I used to say tools from Lowes...but with the addition of my cheap and twisted press I should probably have said tools from Harbor Freight. These aren't rocket science, and I didn't use any "special" Stihl shop tools on the ones I've done. I'm an old fart, If I can do it any one can with the desire and mechanical skills.

I do have to stress "mechanical skills" and or at least some understanding of the physics involved. The skills can be learned but without them lots of frustration can happen until they are learned...

For me it was an "adventure". LOL unlikely set of parts scrambled together into something useful...right down my ally. Add the "underdog" factor...its now a challenge.


----------



## davhul

trboxman said:


> This isn't directed at anyone in particular.
> 
> I didn't buy the tools 'cause I needed them. I bought them because I wanted them. Same reason I bought the saw. I don't need a 90cc saw and I don't need a mechanical jigsaw puzzle, I bought it 'cause I wanted it and the challenge and, as I said earlier, because I need something to keep my occupied during the winter months. I used to make furniture, but the dust plays heck with my respiratory system. I used to build rifles, but the feds don't like hobbyists that build and sell. I used to do lots of metal fab work, but the grinding dust and welding fumes plays heck with my respiratory system...etc., etc., etc...
> 
> Clearly this can be done without anything more complex than a heat gun, a brass hammer, T27 torx, small phillips, medium flathead, 19mm socket (or scrench if you're really light on tools), straight & curved needle nosed pliers, straight & bent picks, about 14" of mason's twine and the ability to follow directions (written or video). Case sealant optional. And the one thing that makes all of this really, really easy...experience. And it's the experience that I'm gaining right now that I enjoy the most.


Im good I wasn't saying anything towards anyone. I was just referring to a earlier post. And I was Saying if you have them or know someone with it just makes it a simpler job. When I do it, it's got to be quick and easy because I have almost 2 weeks of work to do. I don't pull cases apart everyday or every week. Maybe 5 times a year. I want to build one and do some port work and other tricks on it because that's the next thing I want to learn. Some I see are building there first saw and when it breaks they can fix it. I like this forum unlike others I've been on where no one wants to help anyone else.


----------



## trboxman

davhul said:


> I like this forum unlike others I've been on where no one wants to help anyone else.



You and I are in violent agreement on this one.


----------



## Bedford T

In line with getting the show on the road and the fact my gasket is ok but affixed to the wrong side, tomorrow i am going to use the heat method in my oven and see if i can push it on and finish with pulling with the screws. so i go to find the screws and i can find six spline screws that measure with my harbor freight tool at around 5mx23 (those were in a unmarked pack) and the ipl shows 5mx20. I don't see anything close to that used in the build kit screws other than the two marked 5x20 indicating the pull starter and they measure 5x20 with my tool. the cylinder head screws are black but m6x25. so they must use 23?


----------



## trboxman

Didn't measure them. There were 6 in the package, the only other package with six identical screws are 4mm.

Here is an update after a couple of hours to waste this morning.


----------



## davhul

Nice. You got the clutch and the flywheel on. Your about 30 min away from firing it off. Lol


----------



## trboxman

That was my estimate as well. I might take time to do that this week, but it might also wait till Saturday.


----------



## davhul

Unrelated but I tore my 04' MS 460 down at work today. What better way to work on a Sunday. You building one and I'm tearing one down. I'm getting ready to port it. My squish is .025 so I'm thinking about milling .005 off the cylinder so I can keep my stock gasket. If any one has any more tips I would like to know. That's my 064 I want to do more with a degree wheel and more porting once I read up more.


----------



## blsnelling

Bedford T said:


> ...tomorrow i am going to use the heat method in my oven and see if i can push it on and finish with pulling with the screws.


Are you using a convection oven? If not, you may blister the finish on your cases. Been there done that. That's why most of us use a localized heat source. 

Also, I see no reason to freeze the bearings. Not only is it not necessary, but you'll end up with moisture on the bearings. 

Don't try to reinvent the wheel here. There are plenty of threads here of how to do this. It's not that hard.


----------



## Bedford T

You saved me from disaster.



blsnelling said:


> Are you using a convection oven? If not, you may blister the finish on your cases. Been there done that. That's why most of us use a localized heat source.
> 
> Also, I see no reason to freeze the bearings. Not only is it not necessary, but you'll end up with moisture on the bearings.
> 
> Don't try to reinvent the wheel here. There are plenty of threads here of how to do this. It's not that hard.


----------



## blsnelling

Some of you may gasp, but I actually use a small torch to heat the case. I keep it moving in circles around the bearing pocket about 10 times. I wait a bit for that to heat soak and do it another 10 times. If done right you will not burn the finish and the bearing will literally fall in. I then hit it with compressed air to cool it off and lock it in. Obviously there's risk here for getting it too hot. Try at your own risk.


----------



## Bedford T

My morning was productive, I got in the car and set out to find a man with a press that would solve my problem. I stopped at the first hole in the wall car repair shop I came across and walked in empty handed and told the guy I was working on a first timer project and needed to press together a chainsaw crankcase, he got out of his chair.

I knew I had him hooked, he was interested and I asked if I could show him what I was talking about he was out the door before I was and we walked to my car. I showed him and he got excited. something about this appeals to guys, doesn't it? So anyway I actually tore the gasket pulling it out of the box he said get another gasket come back monday I would love to help you. I will put a big socket here and and one here to support it, and press it together for you, that was music to my ears. lol I will go see the stihl man about the two parts later today.

I stopped by harbor freight to look at presses, they have a 6 ton benchtop to for 70$, then a 12 and a 20. Small one might be worth it if you do 2 or 3 of these saws. I would never use it for anything else. We have certainly explored some options on this point here.


----------



## Kostas

blsnelling said:


> Some of you may gasp, but I actually use a small torch to heat the case. I keep it moving in circles around the bearing pocket about 10 times. I wait a bit for that to heat soak and do it another 10 times. If done right you will not burn the finish and the bearing will literally fall in. I then hit it with compressed air to cool it off and lock it in. Obviously there's risk here for getting it too hot. Try at your own risk.



You can also use a heat gun with no fear of damaging the finish.


----------



## weimedog

Used a heat gun and a non contact thermometer. Used and still do an old hot plate with the same thermometer. ...even for chits and grins used the top of my wood stove! (And thermometer ) and I have used a freezer. ..a little frost won't hurt anything and with a heat gun things dry up quick. It's about the physics. Many ways to get there..


----------



## trboxman

Those non-contact thermometers are game changers in a number of different ways. Obviously I've not used them on chainsaws but on woodworking machinery I've used them to accurately identify failing bearings prior to them exhibiting any other indicators of pending failure and on a jeep I diagnosed an undersized power steering pump etc. They take an element of guesswork out of the equation.


----------



## Albert Beerstein

Just a note on the carby's, I had one that did not idle well or adjust well, and found that the throttle plate was not centered properly. Back off idle adjusting screw to allow throttle plate to contact the carby walls, loosen screw a small amount, then hold throttle closed, couple of light taps on throttle plate with screwdriver end, then tighten screw whilst holding light pressure on throttle arm in closed direction. Bingo! all was well


----------



## weimedog

Albert Beerstein said:


> Just a note on the carby's, I had one that did not idle well or adjust well, and found that the throttle plate was not centered properly. Back off idle adjusting screw to allow throttle plate to contact the carby walls, loosen screw a small amount, then hold throttle closed, couple of light taps on throttle plate with screwdriver end, then tighten screw whilst holding light pressure on throttle arm in closed direction. Bingo! all was well



You know I've had a couple that didn't idle well and NEVER even thought to look inside. Thank you for a path and strategy to consider.


----------



## Albert Beerstein

Bedford T said:


> Anybody ever take a look at those rubber piece's I marked with paper numbers?


5- coil wire grommet through case near flywheel
6- rubber for l/h/s of chain brake lever
10-coil wire grommet in plastic handle section
11- oil pump rubber- rear
8- chain brake spring cover/damper - big spring
12 throttle linkage boot - in handle section
9 - ????
4 - decomp rubber seal
3 - rubber limiter around front/right AV mount?


----------



## trboxman

There are some duplicate rubber pieces in the kit. I'll post a pic later tonight to show what's leftover.

Here are the leftovers:


----------



## trboxman

It's all done but lighting it up and tuning. I won't start on that till tomorrow night and depending on what time I get home from work it may have to wait longer.

Every single part was there up until the bucking spikes, then they were 2 fasteners & 3 nylock nuts short, they included enough to mount the inside spike and nothing the mount the outside spike and chain catcher. All in all I'd say it's an outstandingly complete kit.

Here are some pics, including all of the tools used in the assembly.

The most difficult part of this was getting the order of assembly correct. I had to backtrack several times, fortunately they were minor but definitely a slow down. I figure I can cut the time to assemble in half for the next one. I'm right at about 4 hours total work time, not inclusive of research time and general contemplation.


----------



## BTarb24

Well, it's been 17 days since I placed my order and it's still in a 'Pending' state. I've used their Contact Us page 3 times and sent an email to all 3 relevant email address I could find on Google. They haven't replied to a single contact attempt, so i have finally given up and submitted a dispute on PayPal.

I really don't get why they're blowing me off. I just want to receive the darn saw :/

Assuming the dispute goes through, I'm contemplating submitting another order attempt to see if I have better luck. What are your guy's thoughts? Alternatively, i would have to spend 500-600 to buy a pre-built knock off or a 10 year old 066. .. I really was excited about building one from a box of parts though.


----------



## davhul

Looks good. I might put a used elasto start handle on I have if mine comes in.


----------



## tbohn

I have a similar situation. I ordered on 9/6 and received an order confirmation and nothing since then. I have emailed a couple of different addresses four times with no responses. I have not tried emailing their Ebay store yet. When I click on the link from the order confirmation, it says order not found. 
I expected to have to wait weeks for delivery but I'm not sure that my order and payment ever went to huztl. The order confirmation came from kancart.com which I think is a mobile payment site. The payment from PayPal went to [email protected] (net?). I'm thinking of waiting until the end of the week before I dispute.


----------



## Kyler Monares

Well here's an update on my 660 kit. 
I don't have one. Huztl got back to me once and said they will track down my shipment or send out a new one and I haven't heard anything since then.......


----------



## tbohn

How did you reach them?


----------



## BTarb24

Wow, i got a quick reply from the paypal dispute:



> Dear Sir,
> 
> Sorry for the problem!
> 
> You can contact us in this email address, *[email protected]*.
> 
> Recently our system has a little problem when updating the tracking info online. Usually the tracking number will be automatically uploaded to the website after we shipped out the parcel.
> 
> We have already shipped out your items. The tracking # is 664224277417 and carrier is SF-express.
> 
> The actual delivery courier will be UPS in your country.
> 
> The parcel had been shipped to US in Sep 18th. So we think you will receive the parcel in next 2-4 days.
> Hope you can kindly wait a few days to get it.
> 
> Sorry for any inconvenience!
> Thank you for understanding and patience!
> 
> Regards,
> Sara from huztl.


----------



## KennyPete

Amazing how that works huh? Haha

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


----------



## Bedford T

@trboxman "Every single part was there up until the bucking spikes, then they were 2 fasteners & 3 nylock nuts short" I did not catch the spikes. Did yours come with the winter summer shutter?


----------



## Kyler Monares

I sent them an email through their contact page on the website. They responded within 24 hours but I haven't heard anything back since then either. I'm going to dispute with PayPal. Cancel the order and get the 361 kit from them


----------



## Bedford T

i just heard from them also, the woman was away trying to get a visa outta there, and it was "unexpected" for her assistant to not write everyone in her absence. the assistant was likely like citizens here, shes away screw it. i called paypal and told them about our collective issues and they said file the dispute. a bunch of disputes will increase the need for visas around there.

she wanted me to send her photos of the missing items


----------



## BTarb24

Bedford T said:


> she wanted me to send her photos of the missing items


haha. 

For any other issues it seems you can just email *[email protected]*. I haven't personally tried that one (tried 3 other emails), but the lady that responded to my paypal dispute recommended it.


----------



## 67L36Driver

Your wrap handle is on wrong..............Oh,..........wait,.........never mind.
[emoji48]


----------



## Bedford T

lol


----------



## Bedford T

I noticed we are missing our gun sight and I fixed that on mine


----------



## weimedog

So you guys with delivery issues...how long have you waited? Mine stuff always to 2-3 weeks. One 5 weeks because it was stuck in customs. I also always communicated through the eBay messaging and they were responsive. Curious on time line.


----------



## davhul

I ordered one Friday off the huztl site and mine is pending.


----------



## tbohn

I ordered on 9/6/16. I am expecting a long delivery like other items i have ordered from China. My concern was I could never get an order status and my order could not be found when I checked their website. I have not had any responses from the contact link on their site. I did send an email to [email protected] today. Hopefully I will get some response, any response from Huztl.


----------



## Bedford T

Different priority. eBay is way up there and the crowd source mentality screw my order and I will hang you.

PayPal, not as strong of protection. If you don't get your order yeah. If they are slow or don't respond you are on your own.

I will say I got mine faster than you did 10 days.

Remember they are 12 hours different and I think it's 12 behind.

If you are not a regular eBay user be aware that your PayPal address is correct before you order



weimedog said:


> So you guys with delivery issues...how long have you waited? Mine stuff always to 2-3 weeks. One 5 weeks because it was stuck in customs. I also always communicated through the eBay messaging and they were responsive. Curious on time line.


----------



## BTarb24

weimedog said:


> So you guys with delivery issues...how long have you waited? Mine stuff always to 2-3 weeks. One 5 weeks because it was stuck in customs. I also always communicated through the eBay messaging and they were responsive. Curious on time line.



I only waited about 9 days before I contacted them. However, I knew 2 other forum members had ordered at roughly the same time and had already received theirs. If i hadn't had that knowledge then I would have given it a few weeks since slow shipping from china isn't exactly uncommon.

That being said.. we now know that huztl ships typically ships within a couple days and the shipping time is only about 4 days long. If your order is still marked as 'pending' after a week then i strongly advise you contact them.. otherwise your order may have fallen into a crack like mine did. 



tbohn said:


> My concern was I could never get an order status and my order could not be found when I checked their website


Did you get a charge on your credit card yet? If not, then i'd just order it again. My order was visible on their website from the moment I submitted it. Also, the paypal email confirmation had come within minutes.


----------



## tbohn

I did get a payment notification from PayPal immediately after I placed the order. The link in the confirmation email from huztl.net does link to their site but it says order not found.


----------



## tbohn

The biggest concern I had was a notification that there were some security certificate issues from the huztl.net website. When i try to get to the huztl.net site on my phone I go to kancart.com. The same thing happens when I try to link to the order status link from the order confirmation email. 
Spending a few hundred dollars for more chainsaws that I don't need is bad enough. Spending a few hundred and getting nothing is something I don't want to do.


----------



## Bedford T

Stay off their website with mobile devices it is not meant to work. And the browser you are using is expecting a security certificate and they don't bother with that stuff. The PayPal portion is ok.




tbohn said:


> The biggest concern I had was a notification that there were some security certificate issues from the huztl.net website. When i try to get to the huztl.net site on my phone I go to kancart.com. The same thing happens when I try to link to the order status link from the order confirmation email.
> Spending a few hundred dollars for more chainsaws that I don't need is bad enough. Spending a few hundred and getting nothing is something I don't want to do.


----------



## davhul

Has anyone ever priced out a ms660 with oem parts? If not I might see this winter when it slows down some.


----------



## Bedford T

From what I have seen and you would know better it would be expensive, I would be willing to bet it would be north of 1500.

I bet that why that don't sell many that way



davhul said:


> Has anyone ever priced out a ms660 with oem parts? If not I might see this winter when it slows down some.


----------



## davhul

I bet it's crazie expensive. Might see at cost to


----------



## tbohn

tbohn said:


> I ordered on 9/6/16. I am expecting a long delivery like other items i have ordered from China. My concern was I could never get an order status and my order could not be found when I checked their website. I have not had any responses from the contact link on their site. I did send an email to [email protected] today. Hopefully I will get some response, any response from Huztl.


I just received an email from huztldealer. I now have a tracking number with delivery 7-10 days. She said the clutch drums were out of stock.


----------



## trboxman

Bedford T said:


> @trboxman "Every single part was there up until the bucking spikes, then they were 2 fasteners & 3 nylock nuts short" I did not catch the spikes. Did yours come with the winter summer shutter?



You're right, no it didn't. Not a big deal for me as I will likely never use it in weather cold enough for it to matter.


----------



## trboxman

It runs!!! 

I can't get the bar to mount where it's not easily wiggled, I'm using a 25" bar that I have for my 362. It's a 3/8 .50 Stihl bar so it should work but the bar studs bottom out on the cover before the cover pinches the bar tight to the case. I'll fiddle with that either tomorrow or over the weekend. I don't want to run it above an idle without a bar and chain on it. Took about 8 pulls to fire up, it'll fire right back up while warm but takes about 8 pulls each time cold. Ideas on this? The oil pump definitely works!


----------



## tbohn

trboxman said:


> It runs!!!
> 
> I can't get the bar to mount where it's not easily wiggled, I'm using a 25" bar that I have for my 362. It's a 3/8 .50 Stihl bar so it should work but the bar studs bottom out on the cover before the cover pinches the bar tight to the case. I'll fiddle with that either tomorrow or over the weekend. I don't want to run it above an idle without a bar and chain on it. Took about 8 pulls to fire up, it'll fire right back up while warm but takes about 8 pulls each time cold. Ideas on this? The oil pump definitely works!


What is your plan for break in?


----------



## trboxman

Use it. I've got a full load of logs showing up next week so there will be plenty of bucking/blocking to do. I think I'll order a 20" Total lightweight bar for it...or maybe stick with a 25" Stihl. I don't really know, I didn't need the saw, I wanted the saw, now I've got to figure out what to do with it...


----------



## Bedford T

this kit had the short studs if you printed off that paper i posted with build parts for the longer studs has the part numbers, they even have a larger stud in case the hole becomes enlarged. congrats on getting it running.

You know i ordered the stihl install tools as well. I am buying several tools and they should be available in about a week. Never thought i would have made that decision. I can pull them together and crack them open. I have reordered bearings and seals and the gasket and crank and i am going to start from scratch with the case and use the tools to install. no hand wringing is expected this round and i can order as many kits there after as i desire and have fun.


----------



## Bedford T

what are the bar specs you are going to use, we have the 3/8 pitch 7t rim system. a lot of the bars i looked at were 8t. wonder what the best gauge is? the large trees i have left to cut are large standing beasts with a few sleeping giants i fell a few months ago. all hardwood, ashe, elm poplar, cedar.

now that you have it uses will find you, like owning a trailer. endless friends, neighbors and don't forget relatives

.



trboxman said:


> Use it. I've got a full load of logs showing up next week so there will be plenty of bucking/blocking to do. I think I'll order a 20" Total lightweight bar for it...or maybe stick with a 25" Stihl. I don't really know, I didn't need the saw, I wanted the saw, now I've got to figure out what to do with it...


----------



## Bedford T

you have a lot going on when you just fire one up, getting it tuned will solve most of the issues. using a tach in tuning is real important? are you doing the 25:1 for your first tanks?



trboxman said:


> It runs!!!
> 
> I can't get the bar to mount where it's not easily wiggled, I'm using a 25" bar that I have for my 362. It's a 3/8 .50 Stihl bar so it should work but the bar studs bottom out on the cover before the cover pinches the bar tight to the case. I'll fiddle with that either tomorrow or over the weekend. I don't want to run it above an idle without a bar and chain on it. Took about 8 pulls to fire up, it'll fire right back up while warm but takes about 8 pulls each time cold. Ideas on this? The oil pump definitely works!


----------



## weimedog

guess statistically things might be different on places other than eBay..but Huztl has never failed to produce for me. And I'm usually a skeptic And the one shipping anomaly, they made things work. It did take a while but the parts did land on my door step. It would be suprising to me if two folks out of four had an issue...lol maybe one!


----------



## weimedog

Bedford T said:


> what are the bar specs you are going to use, we have the 3/8 pitch 7t rim system. a lot of the bars i looked at were 8t. wonder what the best gauge is? the large trees i have left to cut are large standing beasts with a few sleeping giants i fell a few months ago. all hardwood, ashe, elm poplar, cedar.
> 
> now that you have it uses will find you, like owning a trailer. endless friends, neighbors and don't forget relatives
> 
> .


I've been using Total brand "super" bars or Sugihara's. The Totals are the best bang per buck for me at least here for those Stihl mounts. They are also significantly lighter than the Stihl alternatives. Harder too. And for the big hard wood 7 tooth is best on a 24in br. I have an 8pin on the 20in bar in all those video's with the 20.


----------



## 67L36Driver

trboxman said:


> It runs!!!
> 
> I can't get the bar to mount where it's not easily wiggled, I'm using a 25" bar that I have for my 362. It's a 3/8 .50 Stihl bar so it should work but the bar studs bottom out on the cover before the cover pinches the bar tight to the case. I'll fiddle with that either tomorrow or over the weekend. I don't want to run it above an idle without a bar and chain on it. Took about 8 pulls to fire up, it'll fire right back up while warm but takes about 8 pulls each time cold. Ideas on this? The oil pump definitely works!



Counter bore the clutch cover slightly on your drill press. I've run into a couple aftermarket covers that needed clearance for the bar stud shoulders. Takes ten minutes.


----------



## trboxman

67L36Driver said:


> Counter bore the clutch cover slightly on your drill press. I've run into a couple aftermarket covers that needed clearance for the bar stud shoulders. Takes ten minutes.



That's the plan. I ran out of time last night between getting home at 7:00 spending time with the kids before their bedtime, eating dinner and trying to ensure some modicum of domestic tranquility with the spouse. These studs are taper collar studs vs. the flat collar studs and the collar is longer.


----------



## trboxman

Bedford T said:


> this kit had the short studs if you printed off that paper i posted with build parts for the longer studs has the part numbers, they even have a larger stud in case the hole becomes enlarged. congrats on getting it running.
> 
> You know i ordered the stihl install tools as well. I am buying several tools and they should be available in about a week. Never thought i would have made that decision. I can pull them together and crack them open. I have reordered bearings and seals and the gasket and crank and i am going to start from scratch with the case and use the tools to install. no hand wringing is expected this round and i can order as many kits there after as i desire and have fun.



It's not the length of the studs, it's that they're taper studs and the cover appears to be made for the older non taper flat collar studs, the tapers have a greater standoff on a cover that's not counter sunk for the taper on the stud.

Congrats on ordering the tools! Mine should be here this week, now I'll have to wait for another kit to show up before I can put them to use...that shouldn't be more than 3 or 4 weeks. I ordered 6 kits last night before I went to bed.



Bedford T said:


> what are the bar specs you are going to use, we have the 3/8 pitch 7t rim system. a lot of the bars i looked at were 8t. wonder what the best gauge is? the large trees i have left to cut are large standing beasts with a few sleeping giants i fell a few months ago. all hardwood, ashe, elm poplar, cedar.
> 
> now that you have it uses will find you, like owning a trailer. endless friends, neighbors and don't forget relatives.



I haven't decided what bar I'm going to go with. I have a Stihl 25" bar that's on my 362 and it's also a 7t 3/8" rim but as I mentioned I'm strongly considering a 20" Total lightweight. I suppose I'll order a couple of 8t rims to play with when I get a new bar.



Bedford T said:


> you have a lot going on when you just fire one up, getting it tuned will solve most of the issues. using a tach in tuning is real important? are you doing the 25:1 for your first tanks?



I have a tach and fiddled with the idle speed to pull it in spec but again didn't want to get too deep into it without getting a bar and chain mounted. Hopefully I'll have time to get to it tonight. I set the L & H screws at baseline for start up. I'm not planning to do anything special for break in other than use the saw. I'm using 50:1 motomix


----------



## Bedford T

if anyone should have to remove the gasket after tacking it in place i used some laquer thinner and the yamabond i had used rolled right off. two minutes of contact time and wiped with a paper towels then a good air bath and its clean as a whistle.


----------



## Bedford T

yikes 



trboxman said:


> I ordered 6 kits last night before I went to bed.


----------



## trboxman

Bedford T said:


> yikes



I was wondering if anyone was going to catch that...


----------



## davhul

Your going to be the best Santa ever when you show up. Lol. Everyone has their Favorite oil but I plan on running mine at 40:1 with stihl ultra. That's in all my saws. Now my FS130 its a 50:1.


----------



## tbohn

I did ask huztl ebay store if they sell complete kits. They said yes. I followed up with how much - waiting for response. This may be another way of ordering these.


----------



## Bedford T

i likely will go 40:1 too and its stihl silver all the way for me and in my fs130 its only motomix. string trimmers can be so hateful but motomix cures that. my dealer just replaced its carb but he said its clean just a physical issue with a jet or something

i find that motomix is best for everything, but when i am using a lot of fuel in my saw or my br600 i go with clean gas and sliver oil and when i am close to quitting i empty and run motomix until it quits and stop for the day. nobody will ever tell me i have a dirty carb, ever, or dirty fuel be the cause of a repair. i wish my dealer would carry the gallon.

i asked about the bars, i just found one of the best videos on that subject for the 660. to help out newcomers heres the link. it might help the seasoned as well, its well thought out and demonstrated. the guy spent a fortune to assemble the demonstration. 
http://www.arboristsite.com/communi...n-stihl-cannon-total-tsumura-sugihara.276353/


----------



## Bedford T

what do you mean complete kits? this threads about the complete kits and they do sell about 5 different ones. they do not sell complete assembled saws



tbohn said:


> I did ask huztl ebay store if they sell complete kits. They said yes. I followed up with how much - waiting for response. This may be another way of ordering these.


----------



## tbohn

trboxman said:


> It's not the length of the studs, it's that they're taper studs and the cover appears to be made for the older non taper flat collar studs, the tapers have a greater standoff on a cover that's not counter sunk for the taper on the stud.
> 
> Congrats on ordering the tools! Mine should be here this week, now I'll have to wait for another kit to show up before I can put them to use...that shouldn't be more than 3 or 4 weeks. I ordered 6 kits last night before I went to bed.
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't decided what bar I'm going to go with. I have a Stihl 25" bar that's on my 362 and it's also a 7t 3/8" rim but as I mentioned I'm strongly considering a 20" Total lightweight. I suppose I'll order a couple of 8t rims to play with when I get a new bar.
> 
> 
> 
> I have a tach and fiddled with the idle speed to pull it in spec but again didn't want to get too deep into it without getting a bar and chain mounted. Hopefully I'll have time to get to it tonight. I set the L & H screws at baseline for start up. I'm not planning to do anything special for break in other than use the saw. I'm using 50:1 motomix


I was thinking of ordering six more as well. I don't know what I would do with them after they were built. 

I ordered the 56mm kit with mine. I'll decide if I build 56mm or 54mm when I get it. I am concerned about the freeport issues with the 56mm that Weimedog discovered.


----------



## tbohn

Bedford T said:


> what do you mean complete kits? this threads about the complete kits and they do sell about 5 different ones. they do not sell complete assembled saws


They don't list them on their eBay store.


----------



## Bedford T

For some reason they don't sell them on eBay. It likely would be disruptive.

Not on your mobile device unless you can get the desk top version go to
Huztl.net

It will not load


----------



## Bedford T

so if our studs 1138 664 2400 were changed to the different style ms studs 0000 953 6605 would that solve the issue or create another with bar fitment? maybe davhul will weight in? my reasoning is $10 replacement and no reason to modify the cover?



trboxman said:


> It's not the length of the studs, it's that they're taper studs and the cover appears to be made for the older non taper flat collar studs, the tapers have a greater standoff on a cover that's not counter sunk for the taper on the stud.


----------



## blsnelling

Bedford T said:


> so if our studs 1138 664 2400 were changed to the different style ms studs 0000 953 6605 would that solve the issue or create another with bar fitment? maybe davhul will weight in? my reasoning is $10 replacement and no reason to modify the cover?


Keep the tapered studs and drill the cover. The wider shoulder on the tapered studs are a nice improvement they made a few years ago.


----------



## blsnelling

Bedford T said:


> i likely will go 40:1 too and its stihl silver all the way for me and in my fs130 its only motomix. string trimmers can be so hateful but motomix cures that. my dealer just replaced its carb but he said its clean just a physical issue with a jet or something
> 
> i find that motomix is best for everything, but when i am using a lot of fuel in my saw or my br600 i go with clean gas and sliver oil and when i am close to quitting i empty and run motomix until it quits and stop for the day. nobody will ever tell me i have a dirty carb, ever, or dirty fuel be the cause of a repair. i wish my dealer would carry the gallon.
> 
> i asked about the bars, i just found one of the best videos on that subject for the 660. to help out newcomers heres the link. it might help the seasoned as well, its well thought out and demonstrated. the guy spent a fortune to assemble the demonstration.
> http://www.arboristsite.com/communi...n-stihl-cannon-total-tsumura-sugihara.276353/


My Stihl trimmers run great on pump gas and whatever synthetic oil I'm using, and always at 32:1.


----------



## davhul

blsnelling said:


> Keep the tapered studs and drill the cover. The wider shoulder on the tapered studs are a nice improvement they made a few years ago.


Correct. I'll likely mod my cover also


----------



## trboxman

Bedford T said:


> i wish my dealer would carry the gallon.



I actually prefer the quart since it's so bloody easy to pour compared to the gallon. I just buy it by the 6 quart case.


----------



## Bedford T

you are definitely a maverick



blsnelling said:


> My Stihl trimmers run great on pump gas and whatever synthetic oil I'm using, and always at 32:1.


----------



## Bedford T

so this is an update on farmertec contacts. apparently the email on paypal is an OLD managers email and they have done nothing to fix it and on ebay they have the messaging system so that is why wemidog has had great luck with them. so my chats have been fruitful in some manner.

their position is the shutter is not needed which is horse droppings depending on your climate. they sent me a drawing for the 066 and wanted to discuss it being missing and said i was confused and i of course explained the difference with the ms660. the foil is complete non sense and unnecessary per them. if the spikes are really important they will send those out. oops on the missing screws, ok there. oh so sorry for confusion.

apparently labor in this communist country is very similar to ours and i mean very. she blamed old managers, her fight for a US visa and other employees for our ordering troubles. just like a good ole disgruntled american would do

so take this to the bank, you will need to use the huztldealer email address to contact them about huztl.net or you will soon be whining. complete does not mean the same thing as it would on ebay but its real close. Spend another $20 and your good and plan on slightly modifying the sprocket cover for the studs and smoothing out your cylinder and you will own a well priced monster saw. and dont try to order with your phone unless you take extra steps. and if you wonder why your package is still pending or missing parts just image their workplace

your package is on the way!


----------



## davhul

Bedford T said:


> you are definitely a maverick


I was thinking a wizard


----------



## trboxman

The Stihl case splitter/crank puller set arrived. They are very well made. Thanks Dave!!


----------



## davhul

Does anyone know if the cylinder is nikasil or Chrome coated? And are all the kits missing the same parts? I want to make sure I have everything in stock or ordered before it comes in. I also have a set of caber rings I might put in it.


----------



## blsnelling

Bedford T said:


> their position is the shutter is not needed which is horse droppings depending on your climate.


Many guys never use the shutter, even in cold temps. It would only be necessary if you're having icing problems with the carb/filter. I wouldn't sweat it's absence.


----------



## trboxman

Don't over tighten the fuel cap. It's a two piece design where the hexagonal center and the outer ring are pressed together. If you over tighten it you will leak fuel from the join seam.


----------



## blsnelling

trboxman said:


> Don't over tighten the fuel cap. It's a two piece design where the hexagonal center and the outer ring are pressed together. If you over tighten it you will leak fuel from the join seam.


I think OEM is the same way. I have seen them separated as well.


----------



## trboxman

davhul said:


> Does anyone know if the cylinder is nikasil or Chrome coated? And are all the kits missing the same parts? I want to make sure I have everything in stock or ordered before it comes in. I also have a set of caber rings I might put in it.



They definitely have and sell some cylinders that they label as Nikasil. They didn't make any statement as to whether the ones in the kit are Nikasil or hard chrome.

So far all of the kits are missing the heat shield foil, the winter/summer shutter. Mine was missing a couple of hex bolts and nylock nuts for the outside felling spikes. Other than that it was impressively complete. I didn't use anything that wasn't provided in the kit other than the bolts for the felling spikes, some mix oil to lube the roller bearings and cylinder and some grease for the chain adjuster. I'm even using their spark plug... I still need to buy a bar and some chains for it, but I'll be doing that soon.


----------



## Bedford T

its possible the kits get fixed, i sure made them and paypal were aware since they need a reason to care. as far as the shutter i just bought one, if i never use it fine but i will have it if its needed. that part of the process is important to me. the details. i like order. i like things complete. I want the heat shield too. i don't want the chinese plastic to fade or deform, if stihl thought theirs needed it, farmertec needs it more. i just bough a oil cap for my 029 because it separated, but it took 25 years. it would be great if you let us know if something is missing so we can look for trends.




davhul said:


> And are all the kits missing the same parts?


----------



## blsnelling

Maybe I misunderstood. Did they leave out provisions for the shutter, or is the hole there with no shutter? If no hole, I'd forget it. If the hole is there, I'd definitely want the shutter to block it.


----------



## Bedford T

Yes sir there are two holes. I opened a dispute over it. Kit should be complete or simply say, you will need to obtain a few parts locally. It's one or the other to me.

I owe them but this time they can pay me back or provide the missing parts. If I don't dispute this they will continue. Only reason I have not already ordered several more. If fine for others to forget it. I will after this, will just buy separately if needed.


----------



## blsnelling

Bedford T said:


> Only reason I have not already ordered several more.


In that case, the shutter definitely needs to be there. However, PN 1122 141 4000 is only $2.99.


----------



## Bedford T

Cost me $6, need spikes, need foil, need some screws to completely assemble saw


----------



## davhul

So both foils are missing. There's one under the muffler to.


----------



## Bedford T

davhul said:


> So both foils are missing. There's one under the muffler to.


Yes sir


----------



## trboxman

blsnelling said:


> Maybe I misunderstood. Did they leave out provisions for the shutter, or is the hole there with no shutter? If no hole, I'd forget it. If the hole is there, I'd definitely want the shutter to block it.



It's a faithful copy of the Stihl housing, it has the shutter holes and the slide mounting points. It just doesn't include the shutter. An OEM shutter will slide right in and be a proper fit.


----------



## Bedford T

*"COMPLETE PARTS FOR STIHL MS660 066 ENGINE MOTOR CRANKCASE CRANKSHAFT CARBURETOR CYLINDER PISTON CHAINSAW"*
*kit*

there is nothing wrong with the silly back and forth i am having with them. i have sound reasons and good judgement. i think its a good copy as well, except


----------



## Bedford T

they wrote me this.

"summer winter air flow shutter: do you mean the shutter below the shroud? This shutter is only available on the previous MS660/066 chainsaw. On the latest version, there is no longer the shutter. Pls check the official parts diagram we attached."

again look at the ad title above


----------



## trboxman

Bedford T said:


> they wrote me this.
> 
> "summer winter air flow shutter: do you mean the shutter below the shroud? This shutter is only available on the previous MS660/066 chainsaw. On the latest version, there is no longer the shutter. Pls check the official parts diagram we attached."
> 
> again look at the ad title above



That would be item #18


----------



## davhul

Man their on crack and probably missing teeth is my image of them. I would flip out and and scream send me #18. Crazy


----------



## Bedford T

Sorry I got the number right in my response to them. No screaming that never helps. I ordered one right away. If the company wants to do right I am going to help them. If they don't there is nothing I can do for them. I'm just real persistent not particularly mean.

I told them 2 pieces of foil but I think only pointed out #4. But that's because she only sent the two drawings. There should be some final response from them. I fully expect them to actually do nothing. It could get interesting.

Honestly that's a big saw. You cutting in the summer or winter the air flow is designed to flow through one hole not both at a time. A small change to the kit would be helpful.

She closes each letter on how important their customers are. I am holding their feet to the fire, not really, cause I would never hurt someone. The idea would be more appealing then dealing with me.


----------



## Bedford T

This is for the first timer, with the wisdom you guys gave me included. It just goes over the parts in the box and covers things I hoped would be helpful, aimed at the novice builder and curious buyer.


----------



## BTarb24

My kit arrived today. I was able to pull the crank seals with a seal pick. The crank pressed in easily with my drill press without using heat. I installed the piston, cyl, muffler, oiler, and clutch.. all were fine and didn't have any visible issues.

The problem is that I'm missing a couple parts. I commented on my paypal dispute and offered to either receive them in a new package or receive a $25 refund so that I can buy them through amazon. (guessing they're pricy from a local stihl dealer, but didn't check)

Woodruff key to attach flywheel
Clutch drum + rim sprocket
I did receive my spikes. I'm not quite sure if i have all my screws or not since i'm currently stuck without the key and drum.

Interestingly, my oiler came pre-assembled and already primed with oil.. but they also included a separate baggie that included some duplicate oiler parts.



Spoiler: Here are the couple pics i took during assembly. Nothing too special


----------



## weimedog

Be nice to have enough of these locally to hold a GTG with these as a theme...even some impromptu racing. Stock class (54mm) woods mod..(56mm) and anything goes classes.  The price point takes the sting out of building a hobby/race/GTG saw.  Allows those with skills and talent explore where before it took thousands of dollars. Also happy to see someone pick up the torch and move it forward relative to organizing the information to make it easier to replicate. A parts list or a sources for complete kits to mitigate the need for a list .. I never really had the time or focus. Huztl seems to be helping as well. I still think round two for me is starting with a box saw and then targeting some upgraded parts to make it more reliable first and then obviously the "Hot Rod" mentality will kick in. My early builds have already begun that process through just using them and debugging them. At this point my 56mm build from that first video with my wife is absolutely at a "Pro level" in performance & stability. Chain adjusters, some of the rubber parts, carbs etc. Wonder if Farmertec has upgraded as they have with the Husqvarna offerings. I wouldn't beat up Huztl or whom ever too bad on the details as long as they respond or we can find either alternative sources for those detail parts, even better yet help THEM understand what's required. My bet is after a few iterations these will settle into a more regular event for them and the bits and pieces left out will become an anomaly....and future purchasers can thank this new group for making that a reality. I won't have a lot to contribute at this point other than what I've done & on reliability based updates and performance upgrades because..Really, how many saws can a guy actually use?? It's a testament to these Farmertec parts that I have that 56mm puzzle saw in my main "In the truck" work saws! I have had a lot of fun with mine and they have in returned a lot of fire wood! Proves the point that for a person looking to repair or extend the life of some of those older saws can in fact do so for a reasonable price.

AND should anyone wonder if they actually run like a 90cc saw....here is a video from last year when the 56mm was still all pretty...its scuffed up now but runs even better after break in & a Walbro upgrade!


----------



## weimedog

One last thought.....these saws are NOT for the novices, they are big powerful saws that can create one HELL of a mess in a hurry! If you are new to the saw world and end up with something like this, PLEASE get some training and absolutely make certain you have your PPE's on when running one....CHAPS, HELMET with FACE protection along with steel toe shoes at an absolute minimum. It scares me that a "price point" mentality can drive a project like this and the the same mentality MIGHT rationalize not having PPE's


----------



## davhul

weimedog said:


> One last thought.....these saws are NOT for the novices, they are big powerful saws that can create one HELL of a mess in a hurry! If you are new to the saw world and end up with something like this, PLEASE get some training and absolutely make certain you have your PPE's on when running one....CHAPS, HELMET with FACE protection along with steel toe shoes at an absolute minimum. It scares me that a "price point" mentality can drive a project like this and the the same mentality MIGHT rationalize not having PPE's


100% correct. And cranking it with the chain brake on and setting it when your walking around the wood pile is a good habit


----------



## jackjcc

Chain break! That's the hardest thing to get into people's head to use. Especially old timers. 

I finally got the website to work and I am going to order the 361 kit. I have a 660 and 036, I'd love a 372 but I don't think their kit has the 372 cylinder. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Bedford T

wow that really hurts a fellas feelings. what more could I have done learn chinese. I also told them a packing list would would solve a lot of this.



weimedog said:


> even better yet help THEM understand what's required.


----------



## tbohn

I asked Huztl ebay store if they offered ms660 kits through ebay. Here is their response.
"
I am Ellen from Farmertec.
Ebay don't allow us to write email address in ebay message nor attach relative link about our products, so I found out your email address according to our sales record.

Huztl ebay shop doesn't list any complete kits, but we have another website, www.huztl.net. We have listed ms660 complete kits there and it is underpromotion, price is very nice.
If you have further query about our products in the future, just feel free to contact me.
Have a nice day
Regards
Ellen"

She says the ms 660 kits are "underpromotion". Maybe for a limited time at this price???

I also asked about ms 460 kits. They said they are not available.


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## Bedford T

if you still have the bag the flywheel came in, double check it. That is where my key was. just in case you don't want to waste any time the woodruff key is 2x3.7. glad you finally got your kit. drill press huh? i have one, never thought of that



BTarb24 said:


> Woodruff key to attach flywheel


----------



## Bedford T

I think the price will rise soon. The whole idea was to stir business towards their own website and cut out ebay as much as possible and with the e fees the price would not be so good. helen is watching this very closely. look on the arbortec website and the kits are twice the price. they removed the pictures but its the same kit. 



tbohn said:


> I asked Huztl ebay store if they offered ms660 kits through ebay. Here is their response.
> "
> I am Ellen from Farmertec.
> Ebay don't allow us to write email address in ebay message nor attach relative link about our products, so I found out your email address according to our sales record.
> 
> Huztl ebay shop doesn't list any complete kits, but we have another website, www.huztl.net. We have listed ms660 complete kits there and it is underpromotion, price is very nice.
> If you have further query about our products in the future, just feel free to contact me.
> Have a nice day
> Regards
> Ellen"
> 
> She says the ms 660 kits are "underpromotion". Maybe for a limited time at this price???
> 
> I also asked about ms 460 kits. They said they are not available.


----------



## tbohn

BTarb24 said:


> My kit arrived today. I was able to pull the crank seals with a seal pick. The crank pressed in easily with my drill press without using heat. I installed the piston, cyl, muffler, oiler, and clutch.. all were fine and didn't have any visible issues.
> 
> The problem is that I'm missing a couple parts. I commented on my paypal dispute and offered to either receive them in a new package or receive a $25 refund so that I can buy them through amazon. (guessing they're pricy from a local stihl dealer, but didn't check)
> 
> Woodruff key to attach flywheel
> Clutch drum + rim sprocket
> I did receive my spikes. I'm not quite sure if i have all my screws or not since i'm currently stuck without the key and drum.
> 
> Interestingly, my oiler came pre-assembled and already primed with oil.. but they also included a separate baggie that included some duplicate oiler parts.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Here are the couple pics i took during assembly. Nothing too special


Its interesting that you are missing the clutch drum. They told me my order was delayed because the drum was out of stock. I ordered mine on 6/9.


----------



## Bedford T

I made some progress. There will be a point soon where all kits will contain the foil, I got that much. We are still sorting on the shutter. i told her to quit listening to what she was being told and to go pick the part up and look at it an the included air filter and the fact the plastic is stamped winter summer. 

she wanted to pay $6 for the foil and my shop told me it cost $10.60 and she said she would ship the other missing parts.

i think they care enough.


----------



## trboxman

BTarb24 said:


> My kit arrived today. I was able to pull the crank seals with a seal pick. The crank pressed in easily with my drill press without using heat. I installed the piston, cyl, muffler, oiler, and clutch.. all were fine and didn't have any visible issues.
> 
> The problem is that I'm missing a couple parts. I commented on my paypal dispute and offered to either receive them in a new package or receive a $25 refund so that I can buy them through amazon. (guessing they're pricy from a local stihl dealer, but didn't check)
> 
> Woodruff key to attach flywheel
> Clutch drum + rim sprocket
> I did receive my spikes. I'm not quite sure if i have all my screws or not since i'm currently stuck without the key and drum.
> 
> Interestingly, my oiler came pre-assembled and already primed with oil.. but they also included a separate baggie that included some duplicate oiler parts.



My woodruff key was in a small package in the flywheel package. I overlooked it the first time through.


----------



## trboxman

Bedford T said:


> I think the price will rise soon. The whole idea was to stir business towards their own website and cut out ebay as much as possible and with the e fees the price would not be so good. helen is watching this very closely. look on the arbortec website and the kits are twice the price. they removed the pictures but its the same kit.



The first time that I looked at the item on their site they had 4 different price points based on how many of them you bought, now they just have 2 price points at qty 1 and qty 6+.


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## davhul

Wouldn't suprise me if they did go up. Think I might order a husky what the best kit model for them.


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## jackjcc

The MS361 kit was $209 shipped. I'll post pictures of it whenever it come in case anybody else wants to try it.


----------



## Bedford T

davhul said:


> Wouldn't suprise me if they did go up. Think I might order a husky what the best kit model for them.


They only have one


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## trboxman

The intake washer is also missing from the kit...just realized whilst going through the parts list again...

Stihl OEM P# 1128 121 8600


----------



## tbohn

jackjcc said:


> Chain break! That's the hardest thing to get into people's head to use. Especially old timers.
> 
> I finally got the website to work and I am going to order the 361 kit. I have a 660 and 036, I'd love a 372 but I don't think their kit has the 372 cylinder.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I ordered the 365-372 kit. I order a big bore kit from Huztl ebay store. I haven't received them yet.


----------



## Bedford T

The part is packaged separately? Its small, could it be between your box flaps? It was the thinnest lightest pack I had. I looked in my box and that's possible, unless it came in another pack which was the case for many if not all I just cannot recall. Sorry, another silent vote for a packing list.



trboxman said:


> The intake washer is also missing from the kit...just realized whilst going through the parts list again...
> 
> Stihl OEM P# 1128 121 8600


----------



## jackjcc

Anybody put a comp tester on their 660 yet? Did anyone put caber rings in?


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## Bedford T

Davhul showed a photo of the ones he installed.


----------



## trboxman

jackjcc said:


> Anybody put a comp tester on their 660 yet? Did anyone put caber rings in?



No Caber rings, no comp test yet.


----------



## BTarb24

I opened all those bags on in the middle of a room on the floor. When i discovered I didn't have the flywheel key I searched the floor and every one of the empty bags several times. Definitely don't have it .. or maybe one of my cats stole it?



tbohn said:


> Its interesting that you are missing the clutch drum. They told me my order was delayed because the drum was out of stock. I ordered mine on 6/9.


Huztl replied to my updated dispute within a couple hours:


> Dear Sir, Thank you for your reply! We shipped the clutch drum wt rim for you by USPS. Because the clutch drum has been out of stock during the beginning of this month. In order to ship out your rest parts asap, we ship them separately. The parcel is already en route. The tracking # is LT208976287CN. Hope you can kindly wait 5-7 days to get the parcel.
> 
> Also we hope you can check the woodruff key again. It's a small item, may be you didn't notice it in many other parts. Hope you can help us confirm again.



It seems they started mailing the kits without the drum due to the backorder. They then shipped the drum when it became available -- though they didn't relay this maneuver to me until after I had to find out on my own and complain. 

She had the same reaction as you guys in that I likely just overlooked the key (which i don't completely rule out). It does seem as though they're willing to mail a separate package all the way from China with just the key in it. That definitely gives me the feeling that they're truly dedicated to customer service. Which is good, since they're so disorganized that you're almost guaranteed to need to make use of that service. Anyway, I'm just going to buy the flywheel key myself to save them on shipping and me on time.


----------



## Bedford T

I think it's interesting they are getting hammered with needless complaints. We send our money all the way to China to help their company grow the least they can do is send us a complete order and they are doing us no favors by fixing the errors no matter how far away they are. They will be coming to dinner in a country near us soon.


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## BTarb24

heh, well... personally, i didn't send my money to china to help them grow their company. I sent it there because their product met my needs for roughly 20% the price of the local counterpart. At that level of discount, I almost expect them not to replace any small missing parts. I wonder how much profit they end up with on each of these kits given that they keep having to mail extra packages from China.


----------



## davhul

jackjcc said:


> Anybody put a comp tester on their 660 yet? Did anyone put caber rings in?


I have a set I'm installing when I get my kit


----------



## jackjcc

I will do the same I think


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## davhul

Comp test on the BB

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/huztl-bb-660-free-porting-but-great-comp.301182/


----------



## Vtrombly

weimedog said:


> Be nice to have enough of these locally to hold a GTG with these as a theme...even some impromptu racing. Stock class (54mm) woods mod..(56mm) and anything goes classes.  The price point takes the sting out of building a hobby/race/GTG saw.  Allows those with skills and talent explore where before it took thousands of dollars. Also happy to see someone pick up the torch and move it forward relative to organizing the information to make it easier to replicate. A parts list or a sources for complete kits to mitigate the need for a list .. I never really had the time or focus. Huztl seems to be helping as well. I still think round two for me is starting with a box saw and then targeting some upgraded parts to make it more reliable first and then obviously the "Hot Rod" mentality will kick in. My early builds have already begun that process through just using them and debugging them. At this point my 56mm build from that first video with my wife is absolutely at a "Pro level" in performance & stability. Chain adjusters, some of the rubber parts, carbs etc. Wonder if Farmertec has upgraded as they have with the Husqvarna offerings. I wouldn't beat up Huztl or whom ever too bad on the details as long as they respond or we can find either alternative sources for those detail parts, even better yet help THEM understand what's required. My bet is after a few iterations these will settle into a more regular event for them and the bits and pieces left out will become an anomaly....and future purchasers can thank this new group for making that a reality. I won't have a lot to contribute at this point other than what I've done & on reliability based updates and performance upgrades because..Really, how many saws can a guy actually use?? It's a testament to these Farmertec parts that I have that 56mm puzzle saw in my main "In the truck" work saws! I have had a lot of fun with mine and they have in returned a lot of fire wood! Proves the point that for a person looking to repair or extend the life of some of those older saws can in fact do so for a reasonable price.
> 
> AND should anyone wonder if they actually run like a 90cc saw....here is a video from last year when the 56mm was still all pretty...its scuffed up now but runs even better after break in & a Walbro upgrade!



These aftermarket builds are great it can be a little tedious figuring out the ipls and getting parts oem that are not offered AM. I am in the middle of a 372 big bore build right now have 90 percent of the parts. This is definitely getting a video on completion since the whole lower is all AM I really want to see how this holds up. I'm kind of up in the air about the carb and whether I should try an AM or whether to go walbro. And whether to do a base gasket delete or not. Im taking my time I have other saws that are my go to saws. I don't think this saw has a chance vs my high top 288 but it sure is fun to put together.


----------



## Kyler Monares

Wow 19 pages and counting! Awsome.
I haven't been able to reply lately because I've been busy at my regular job plus putting my three brand new Stihl's to work. Cleaning up our ranch after a fire burned through... I have had the same luck as you guys now and my 660 kit should be here shortly. I just ordered the 361 kit tonight. I will create a separate thread for the 361 build


----------



## davhul

Wonder how well they'll Stand up to extra power and rpm's. I seen a few guys runing them I'm mills so they might be ok.


----------



## weimedog

davhul said:


> Wonder how well they'll Stand up to extra power and rpm's. I seen a few guys runing them I'm mills so they might be ok.



I think getting them running and debugged first might be a victory... Then tactically upgrading as the folks learn what they have before going to hot rod might make sense. Think of all the raw data that's being on display on first the acquisition, then the builds. Once that path to a running and successful build has been done maybe another thread on "Stage Two"? Two directions in my mind, first doing the conventional things to the as delivered parts, then trying the BB route. Maybe multiple brands to see which ones allow for modification. Tell you what, the first cylinder manufacturer that adds .025 to the exhaust port floor of the 56mm cylinders as compared to the ones I have will open up a pile of compression based modification options. Right now because the 56mm won't fit down in the case opening, the piston is shorter..... meaning the intake timing is already tweaked but also means lowering the cylinder exacerbates a inherent free port issue because of that short piston... And that is all before messing with the transfers to help RPM potential.


----------



## weimedog

BTarb24 said:


> heh, well... personally, i didn't send my money to china to help them grow their company. I sent it there because their product met my needs for roughly 20% the price of the local counterpart. At that level of discount, I almost expect them not to replace any small missing parts. I wonder how much profit they end up with on each of these kits given that they keep having to mail extra packages from China.




To this conversation, a couple of things. From what I can see, they (Huztl) are a repair/spare parts focused company, not a saw manufacturing focused company. The way they are configured is to get parts from either their own manufacturing and / or others and present what they have to the saw repair community. Like all in that business model they don't order or think "complete saw", they offer the spare parts as a menu and some sell faster than others .. they statistically try to keep them in stock, but like all in that configuration handling multiple products, brands and models; there will be time they don't have every little part to complete a saw. My guess that is one reason they quit presenting "complete kits" as an eBay product because it tied up too many parts that were being sold on a piece by piece basis as defined by their main line business! I also suspect they thought about doing "kits" to support the obvious interest and demand, possible from those who do want to manufacture these saws as a business. Probably when the stocks of parts were high, they could offer compete kits until some of the higher volume parts made that impossible....then the "kits" offerings would be taken down off the spare parts offerings until the NEXT delivery cycle. Something to consider. SO by pushing them you are in fact driving them out side their original business model and performance envelope. Just speculation on my part, nothing else and should be interpreted as such.... lets hope we don't make that so far out of their planned business model hassle factor they quit doing packages..

Having said that; the fact they are responsive to customer input is ...huge. You guys have a good thing going here with that relationship. Just remember saw manufacturing is a different ball game than repair parts to repair shops and hobby saws.. Doubt they (Huztl & friends) will ever go there (manufacturing complete saws) as a focus. There are plenty over there in the Farmertec community who will...and some over here who have! Not certain what I think about that. I know I have no plans to be in that business. This started for me to find affordable parts to fix my logging bud's crushed saws and discovered Huztl has a very complete line of parts for "dealer" cost! I'll stay at that level!


----------



## weimedog

One last thought....and a repeat. I Hope & Pray the "keep it cheap" & and fight over a dollar mentality does NOT translate over to PPE's!! Like we used to say in racing....if you have a 10 dollar head, get a ten dollar helmet! Especially the newbie's to big saws!


----------



## Vtrombly

weimedog said:


> One last thought....and a repeat. I Hope & Pray the "keep it cheap" & and fight over a dollar mentality does NOT translate over to PPE's!! Like we used to say in racing....if you have a 10 dollar head, get a ten dollar helmet! Especially the newbie's to big saws!


I agree with that statement and to add to it IMHO more can be said. Ive noticed also that people need to remember that PPE's are there for when a real accident that was unforeseen happens. I see far too often that people that wear PPE's act reckless with a saw because "They are wearing their PPE" . Having safety gear on does not mean you get a free pass to act like you've never picked up a saw before. That being said growing up we didn't have PPE. I used huge macs and homelites when I was 12 years old under the guidance of my father. Now being older I wear PPE but I act like its not there, which I believe is the key.


----------



## Bedford T

@weimedog you know farmertec is huztl, your posts don't make that clear you know? they are not different companies, but only ebay names and they have at least 3 different ebay names, i guess depending on what part of the world their focus is. machinedoctor is maybe europe and the other starts with an L in Asia area

I got my missing shutter today, you can see the cowl in post#346 where this fits in. You can go to your local sthil dealer and pick the shutter up for about $3. The foil set will cost 10.36+ tax in nc.

perfect example of using the farmertec kit and using OEM parts, this fit perfectly, was tight meaning an accurate copy


----------



## Vtrombly

Bedford T said:


> @weimedog you know farmertec is huztl, your posts don't make that clear you know? they are not different companies, but only ebay names and they have at least 3 different ebay names, i guess depending on what part of the world their focus is. machinedoctor is maybe europe and the other starts with an L in Asia area
> 
> I got my missing shutter today, you can see the cowl in post#346 where this fits in. You can go to your local sthil dealer and pick the shutter up for about $3. The foil set will cost 10.36+ tax in nc.
> 
> perfect example of using the farmertec kit and using OEM parts, this fit perfectly, was tight meaning an accurate copy


If you followed his channel that is addressed I believe he is using the term "hutzl" as a blanket term for AM. He quite frequently calls the parts just farmertec and that he got them from numerous online ebay stores. Such as his video for the farmer Jones 372 build. If you haven't seen his videos. Channel afleetcommand on YouTube I suggest you head over @weimedog has some great insites to saws and has come up with some great tools to assemble these aftermarket saws.


----------



## Bedford T

Ok was that an ad?

I thought it was confusing to read I cleared it up.

If it makes you feel better I saw my first video and when I got done I went and got tattoos of both screen names, I am a fan


----------



## Vtrombly

Bedford T said:


> Ok was that an ad?
> 
> I thought it was confusing to read I cleared it up.
> 
> If it makes you feel better I saw my first video and when I got done I went and got tattoos of both screen names, I am a fan


???


----------



## trboxman

weimedog said:


> One last thought....and a repeat. I Hope & Pray the "keep it cheap" & and fight over a dollar mentality does NOT translate over to PPE's!! Like we used to say in racing....if you have a 10 dollar head, get a ten dollar helmet! Especially the newbie's to big saws!



Trust me, coming from the guy who bought the Stihl crank tools, seal drivers and a 6 pack of saw kits on top of the first single kit, I'm not taking a cheap approach to anything but the parts... While I've not been working on saws in the past I've operated chainsaws since I was a pre-teen.


----------



## Vtrombly

Bedford T said:


> Ok was that an ad?
> 
> I thought it was confusing to read I cleared it up.
> 
> If it makes you feel better I saw my first video and when I got done I went and got tattoos of both screen names, I am a fan


Im going to go with you are a Noob to both the saw world and sarcasm... How was my post in any way confusing??? An ad? If going ahead and suggesting that you watch a video of a man that has actually built these saws and has worked out some bugs of the various parts makes it an ad....then ok [emoji1]


----------



## weimedog

I realize Huztl is a part of the Farmertec community. There are several stores on eBay with essentially the same address. Quite aware of that. But here is the rub. Like many companies and or collection of cooperating business entities, they have different sections designed to do different things. Huztl is the label attached to an entity designed to operate a spare parts store. They hope to catch individual customer's such as ourselves and repair shops that don't have OEM sources for brand names they don't have dealerships with as well as developing distribution channels with folks such as Definitive Dave and other online stores. I'm certain within that Farmertec collection of operations they have inside sales as well trying to sell services to OEM's. It's possible the same sales folks wear many hats...but I doubt it. Someone had to work the deal with "Tillotson" to supply the "Blue" Farmertec saws they are threatening to sell...or the other organizations either a part of Farmertec or closely aligned that produce the complete saws that are sold through the Alibaba channels. Hoping you are getting my point certainly not trying to upset anyone. Just I'm an old sales marketing type who sold software tools to companies who wanted to develop and sell graphics applications from video games to Cad/Cam and have a sense on how these companies tend to structure themselves.

( And I really appreciate those who watch & support the YouTube arm of my farm operations! "Afleetcommand" is designed to share little bits of life with my family and friends.....then there is the Rubicon Ridge Farm operations design to sell cattle! LOL )

And as far as my PPE comment. That isn't directed to anyone in particular, just everyone in general. The experienced ones can ignore as they have this under control. AND usually the ones who do have this concept truly understood are self confident & secure enough not to be offended and in fact embrace the iteration and reiterations of safety conversations. Can't cover that topic enough. Just remember we here posting aren't the only ones paying attention and there will be those who come in to peruse & see this as simply a cheap way to get a big saw, with the emphasis on "cheap", its a mind set......without the back ground most here have. I'm speaking to them. The anonymous ones, but if the shoe fits....AND we are teaching by example my friends. 
I for one am really enjoying this thread! Good stuff as folks share real time their experiences in this endeavor! Think I will fade to the back ground now......


----------



## Bedford T

Well you better appreciate me those tattoos hurt! I also have a clear picture of whom we are dealing.


----------



## weimedog

Bedford T said:


> Well you better appreciate me those tattoos hurt! I also have a clear picture of whom we are dealing.


That's pretty funny...so how to they put down the ink in the back woods of the Appalachians? With Bowie Knifes?


----------



## weimedog

Bedford T said:


> Well you better appreciate me those tattoos hurt! I also have a clear picture of whom we are dealing.



To be clear (with humility)...I am not certain I do have a "clear" picture, I would be interested in the actual structure & collection of companies behind the names...how is that laid out? Top down....sales/marketing through manufacturing capabilities that are actually under the Farmertec umbrella and suppliers who provide the rest. Interestingly enough many of the companies / cooperative entities with China aren't structured in a typical "Western" way. Some still have ties to the...past.. So the best I can honestly say is I have a fuzzy understanding that seems to be predictable. In my past I had dealt with the Industrial complex....but things change.

Actually the only thing that matters to me is the fact that Huztl (Farmertec's Factory store) is there on eBay..every day. And I've had a good series of experiences dealing with them. I hope that continues....as they have made many of my foray's into the saw world possible as had I gone the conventional ways before Huztl, I could not have justified it!



( Husqvarna the "mother company" Jonsered, Poulan, & Distributers etc.--Mahle-Walbro-Zama-Oregon-Suppliers of components etc.)

But BACK to the saw builds please! I would really like to see some YouTube video's of your projects. I'll fade some more and will be patiently waiting...


----------



## weimedog

I do have a question to you folks who have researched some of the other "complete" saw options.....If some haven't noticed, I happen to be a fan of these 660's. Which complete AM saw options do YOU like best and why? I know this is a tangent... but I would really like to hear opinions & experiences...is that another thread?


----------



## Vtrombly

weimedog said:


> I do have a question to you folks who have researched some of the other "complete" saw options.....If some haven't noticed, I happen to be a fan of these 660's. Which complete AM saw options do YOU like best and why? I know this is a tangent... but I would really like to hear opinions & experiences...is that another thread?


Myself im liking the 372... My next build will be the 660. At the moment I think I prefer the 372 I think from a combination of ease of material online and through YouTube to be able to assemble. You yourself have many a video of muffler mods and no base gasket builds so to me its a proven option. The 660 still seems like it still has some clouds surrounding it and some modification to get everything meshing correctly... where as the 372 almost everything I have been getting is close to or spot on to stock with very slight modification. It also comes down to practicality for me. If you have that saw with a sugihara bar on it... that saw feels to me like a 60cc saw with a lot more to offer in a big way. The 660 would have a roll of more of a felling saw for me anyhow. The 372 with aftermarket price is perfect for "putting wood on the truck". I love the hobby so relaxation of building it and using it makes sense at that price point. At that point I am seeing your choice to mention PPE as a blanket reminder....as it stands some of these parts have not been proven as of yet. As you have mentioned these saws are not toys...If something comes apart...well I know you know...


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## davhul

weimedog said:


> I do have a question to you folks who have researched some of the other "complete" saw options.....If some haven't noticed, I happen to be a fan of these 660's. Which complete AM saw options do YOU like best and why? I know this is a tangent... but I would really like to hear opinions & experiences...is that another thread?


I have seen a few other options and they looked of Poulan quality. My kit shipped Wednesday so it should be on its way. I was planing on modding it first but I think I'm going to put it together stock first with everything they ship it with. I know its not a kit but a parts replacement. So I'll see if it goes together like oem quality and report it back for anyone interested. It shouldn't take but a hour and half to build, So I'll do it while my wife watches one of her movies. And then head to the woods for some fun.


----------



## Bedford T

nothing like a little restraint and integrity.


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## tbohn

tbohn said:


> I just received an email from huztldealer. I now have a tracking number with delivery 7-10 days. She said the clutch drums were out of stock.


Received tracking information...shipment is in New York. Should get next week. Too bad I will be traveling for work. The rest of you guys are going to make this build easy!


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## trboxman

davhul said:


> It shouldn't take but a hour and half to build, So I'll do it while my wife watches one of her movies.



If you can build this from opening the box to startup in an hour and a half you will have my undying respect and be held in awe above every mechanic I've ever met. And I would desperately love to learn your secrets for efficiency and speed.


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## Pagie

I just ordered a Stihl 360 kit. Cost $303 AU.or $222.7 US. Delivered. A bit nervous now. I hope I can get it together.


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## weimedog

Bedford T said:


> nothing like a little restraint and integrity.


So....are you going to "1" or "0001" or maybe 00000001 on that plate??


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## weimedog

Pagie said:


> I just ordered a Stihl 360 kit. Cost $303 AU.or $222.7 US. Delivered. A bit nervous now. I hope I can get it together.



The beauty of these is the risk is only $222.7us, if it doesn't work it might make you mad but it won't make you cry...LOL


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## Bedford T

weimedog said:


> So....are you going to "1" or "0001" or maybe 00000001 on that plate??


Davhul has claimed 1, I am happy to with any number. You could even put your name on it


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## Bedford T

Pagie said:


> I just ordered a Stihl 360 kit. Cost $303 AU.or $222.7 US. Delivered. A bit nervous now. I hope I can get it together.


You can, I am, get you a IPL and ask questions. All these saws are real close as far as assembly. Plenty of experience here to help you. Fear not.

Start now looking for a press to use, trboxman showed the sockets he used for support or splurge and get you a puller. It's all here or very close


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## davhul

trboxman said:


> If you can build this from opening the box to startup in an hour and a half you will have my undying respect and be held in awe above every mechanic I've ever met. And I would desperately love to learn your secrets for efficiency and speed.


If it fits together like stock I can't see why not. Stihl only pays 2 hours to replace crank bearings. That's take it apart and put it together.


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## davhul

I have no magical wand as most know if you've done it a few times you just gabb screws and know where they go. It doesn't take but 15min to pull the jug off. It's not that hard. Same old steps


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## davhul

If the quality is close to stock. I want to learn to degree the ports and check them against my 064/660. Then practice on a bunch of differant cylinders to see the differant effects I made on it running and power output.


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## Pagie

Yes, it is only money. It is worth that even only for parts. Be good fun to learn on. Hope it arrives.


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## Definitive Dave

I've built the 372, 660, 440, 360, 361, 260, 290/390, 250 and 181 complete (near complete on 440) from AM parts in the past, never did the 038 or 346.
Of the versions I have bought both in kit form and assembled from the same source, the saws I assembled myself were far and away better, though not much cheaper at the time.
Keep in mind most of the vendors in the far east will vigorously hide the truth in regards to where parts really come from.
They will claim to make parts themselves even when they have the manufacturers name of another company on them 
Dealing with them through Ebay is great protection for buyers.
They don't sell complete kits or assembled saws though Ebay for legal reasons.
Anyone who assembles a saw from aftermarket parts should be meticulous in letting buyers and potential buyers know that it is not a genuine article.
Dave


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## davhul

I could almost bet $ a big oem company may have had a hand in them not selling on eBay or any other American sales outfit. They have been watching huztl/farmer tech and other clone saw companies for quality and progress over the last couple years.


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## blsnelling

Bedford T said:


> Start now looking for a press to use, trboxman showed the sockets he used for support or splurge and get you a puller.


As noted before, there's no need at all for either. Heat is all you need. Especially for us hobbiests, there's no need to make this any more difficult or any more expensive than necessary, unless buying tools is also your hobby.


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## davhul

If I done it this way. Anyone can put it together. 
I was 16 and found a 044 in a barn that the roof had caved in. The saw has been rained on and looked bad so I checked the rope and it wouldn't pull but it was all there. 
I took the plastic off and labeled where they went and proceeded to take the jug off. Took out all the bolts and it wouldn't budge. I had to hold the cylinder and bead the case off with a rubber hammer. The piston was white with corrosion and the rings stuck. I soaked the piston in pb blaster while I finished taking it apart.
I didn't know how to split the case I took out all the bolts and it wouldn't move. I went to the hardware store to get some long bolts to screw in the case half. Gave anscrew to the guy and said I need some like these and 6" long. He came back with 4" so I'll use them. Screwed them in and beat the case aPart while supporting one half. Not going into how I got the rusted bearings off the crank but I put the case back together with my long bolts and washers. Cleaned the piston up and sanded the cylinder. Used a carb a guy gave me and she fired up. No money invested and me and my buddy was gone cutting wood. So if that worked out then anyone can put this together with nothing more than ingenuity and just try and see.


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## trboxman

blsnelling said:


> As noted before, there's no need at all for either. Heat is all you need. Especially for us hobbiests, there's no need to make this any more difficult or any more expensive than necessary, unless buying tools is also your hobby.



It is...to my wife's dismay...


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## davhul

trboxman said:


> It is...to my wife's dismay...


I know what you mean. 
Use to always go on the snap on truck and look at or get somthing new that came out.


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## davhul

trboxman Did you get a bar for your saw? Or tried it out on some wood yet?


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## trboxman

I picked up a 20" bar and some 33RSF this afternoon. I've not cut anything with it yet.


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## Bedford T

if poster opts to use heat I would read this first, when author says oven i think he means convection oven, there is a difference, its actually discussed in this thread also.
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/installing-crank-bearings-using-heat.131284/



blsnelling said:


> As noted before, there's no need at all for either. Heat is all you need. Especially for us hobbiests, there's no need to make this any more difficult or any more expensive than necessary, unless buying tools is also your hobby.


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## davhul

Good. Guess now you can go tune.


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## Bedford T

anyone notice the material the manifold is made of. its not rubber, could it be viton?


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## davhul

Is it stiff and does it spring back to its shape quickly?


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## trboxman

davhul said:


> Is it stiff and does it spring back to its shape quickly?



Yep.


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## Bedford T

while we wait on that,

I drilled my clutch cover and I might need to go a bit deeper. I thought it prudent to hold off until I get further along on my build, but I have the cut made and alignment so it simply depth I need to adjust. I put epoxy appliance paint on the cut. anyone have ideas on improvement?


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## davhul

This is a new oem. The taper is right at 5/32" deep to the middle of the taper. Or A little less than 3/16. It's also almost half the depth of the hole. You really need a bar also to see if it fits right.


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## trboxman

davhul knows exactly what he's talking about. A light chamfer is not enough it actually has to be a counterbore. I was in a hurry and butchered mine, it works just fine but I'd never give it to anyone 'cause it's ugly as 4 foot up a bull's fundament. I didn't bother to take the time to set it up on the drill press and instead did it by hand with a cordless drill. The magnesium is soft enough that it's simple, but I want a bit more precision next time. I ordered a replacement cover for $10.


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## davhul

The taper is 12mm. I use a 1/2 counter sink bit. Which is 1mm larger. You still have to be careful. But it works. You want to go deep enough so the cover can pinch the bar good and tight.


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## trboxman

I used a 1/2" countersink as well. I'll use a 1/2" drill bit instead next time, I get cleaner results with a drill bit than I get with a countersink.


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## davhul

I use it in a drill press. but I might try the drill bit next time And see if I can do it with a handheld drill. 


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## trboxman

I wouldn't recommend using a handheld drill, you get too much chatter from the cutting flute because you can't provide the consistent pressure that a drill press can. Even with a drill press I tend to get chatter with countersinks that I don't get with drill bits.


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## davhul

Do you think you rpm on your press need to be higher to use the counter bit?Mines set pretty fast. I'm not near it to check it. Also my counter sink is pretty worn so it doesn't bite very good. It's almost time for a new one. 


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## trboxman

Maybe. I had it on a slower speed that I use for drilling steel. Once I get my replacement cover I'll play around and see if it's purely a speeds and feeds sort of thing.


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## Bedford T

The metal is soft so a slow speed is what i used. 

That is very valuable info we are going to have some first class saws. I did it lightly and used my press. i thought it would be smart to finish it when i was farther along and had the bar in hand. So it really worked out for me, waiting and asking. But i could complete it now with those measurements.

I want to clear something up. when the crank comes up solid saws guys chime in and say to use heat. I am on the wrong side of experience so I have to be careful in my speech. When an experience person tell us something I am grateful...period.

I don't know if all the advice considers the circumstance of the kit, so we must stop and think to avoid mistakes and I would just like to point out that difference especially to first timers. In this specific example, the oil seals are already installed and sit right next to the bearings that you need to heat up and there is no way to shield the seals from contact with possible excess heat unless you remove the seals, which is easy enough to do if you want to use heat. I bet heat is the best way short of a puller. We don't know what they used as far as seal materials. You install bearing in a case stihl mentions using heat and use of heat to install the crank but then they tell you to put your seals in. There is an order to this stuff and we are learning it. 

I think the unknown is what could bite you later. if you google lip seals which is what this basically is, reference can be found that tells you " excessive temperature is the leading cause of seal failures. Elevated temperatures can also lead to the elastomer cracking or blistering. Nitrile seal life decreases by a factor of two for every increase in temperature of 57 degrees F. " So lets say they look fine when your done but they only last half as long. does that make them Chinese junk? You wont remember applying heat and that's likely what would happen. stihls not doing this for us, we are doing this for our self. maybe you could bath the seal in stihl ultra and not have a problem.

thankfully i will not face that again.

I researched seals removers and found one i liked and could make, have not used it yet, but it was not hard to make. I have removed one seal and feel like this will do it, and its cheap. I used a free harbor freight screw driver that i recently discovered under my deck.


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## davhul

I haven't tried installing the crank after the seals have been installed like in this kit. I plain on trying it with the seals in first just to see but I was planing on using oem seals anyway. I figure when the seal gets to the step on the crank I would run something around the seal lip to help it go over the step on the crank while pulling the case together. If it works or not I'm replacing them anyway. As far as heat. I would use a heat gun and an infrared thermometer and I think the seals would be OK as long as you keep it under 220°. That should be plenty. And not damage the seal. 
That seal puller will work just be careful when you pry it out not to leverage the screwdriver against the case opening. It will dent. 


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## blsnelling

The seals should never be installed before the crank and case halves are assembled. If they are, remove them. IMHO, this is a flaw in the kit.. The reason being is that a new seal puts enough drag on the crank that you will not know if you have the crank properly centered and the side load on the bearings released.


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## blsnelling

As a note, you can purchase the entire gasket and seal kit from Stihl for about $30. So don't buy just seals. It's likely cheaper to order the entire "set of gaskets".


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## ssm1699

Just curious, has anyone weighed the PHO to compare it to that of the actual Stihl PHO weight. Based on the manuals for the 066 and the 660, the 066 weights 16.1 lbs and the 660 weights 16.5. Those weights are without the B&C.


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## trboxman

blsnelling said:


> The seals should never be installed before the crank and case halves are assembled. If they are, remove them. IMHO, this is a flaw in the kit.. The reason being is that a new seal puts enough drag on the crank that you will not know if you have the crank properly centered and the side load on the bearings released.



Excellent point.

I have an air leak in mine. It won't hold vac or pressure. I suspect it's the clutch side seal so I'll complete a tear down and test along the way to isolate the source of the air leak. I did initial testing with the saw mostly intact, a block off plate over the exhaust port, a decomp plug in place of the decomp valve and a Stihl test adapter in place of the carb.


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## Bedford T

you will be using a puller right? that's a big difference. i did mine caveman style. 



davhul said:


> I haven't tried installing the crank after the seals have been installed like in this kit. I plain on trying it with the seals in first just to see but I was planing on using oem seals anyway. I figure when the seal gets to the step on the crank I would run something around the seal lip to help it go over the step on the crank while pulling the case together. If it works or not I'm replacing them anyway. As far as heat. I would use a heat gun and an infrared thermometer and I think the seals would be OK as long as you keep it under 220°. That should be plenty. And not damage the seal.
> That seal puller will work just be careful when you pry it out not to leverage the screwdriver against the case opening. It will dent.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Bedford T

blsnelling said:


> As a note, you can purchase the entire gasket and seal kit from Stihl for about $30. So don't buy just seals. It's likely cheaper to order the entire "set of gaskets".


its 44 in my area


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## Bedford T

i am sorry you are facing that. i have stopped my install and reordered crank, seals, gasket and bearings and will start over when those pullers reach me. i said from the first those seals being installed was a mistake and the clutch side seal has the most surface area. have you tried wetting the seal to see the leak?

we are learning. we were anxious to get started

it is official we are on our own with the shutter, just got no where.



trboxman said:


> Excellent point.
> 
> I have an air leak in mine. It won't hold vac or pressure. I suspect it's the clutch side seal so I'll complete a tear down and test along the way to isolate the source of the air leak. I did initial testing with the saw mostly intact, a block off plate over the exhaust port, a decomp plug in place of the decomp valve and a Stihl test adapter in place of the carb.


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## trboxman

I haven't torn it completely down to the point where I have access to the seals yet. Life keeps getting in the way of play on this one. There's a very high likelihood that I won't touch this until Sat or Sun. I've got a rebuild on a double cardan joint driveshaft for a Jeep that's in queue in front of the saw.

It looks like when I finish this project I'll be fairly well outfitted to work on chainsaws though, the tool collection just keeps growing and growing....


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## Kostas

Bedford T said:


> i am sorry you are facing that. i have stopped my install and *reordered crank, seals, gasket and bearings* and will start over when those pullers reach me. i said from the first those seals being installed was a mistake and the clutch side seal has the most surface area. have you tried wetting the seal to see the leak?
> 
> we are learning. we were anxious to get started
> 
> it is official we are on our own with the shutter, just got no where.



What happened?You reordered from Huztl i assume.


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## davhul

Bedford T said:


> you will be using a puller right? that's a big difference. i did mine caveman style.



Not at first. Going to do it like some here have to do it. I'll take pics or maybe a vid. I'm going to use my heat gun and inferred thermometer. 


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## blsnelling

If you heat the case properly, the bearings will literally FALL into place.


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## trboxman

blsnelling said:


> If you heat the case properly, the bearings will literally FALL into place.



Yes, in this case the bearings are already mounted. No one is messing with bearing installation/removal yet. It's the crank that folks need to fit into the bearings. The oil seals are also already mounted, they should be removed prior to fitting the crank and pressed in after the crank is in place.


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## tbohn

Has anyone tried boiling the cases to heat them to insert the bearings? You wouldn't be able to get to 250F but I know it won't get too hot.


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## trboxman

No one is messing around with bearings yet. 

Sent from a magic box in my pocket.


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## blsnelling

trboxman said:


> Yes, in this case the bearings are already mounted. No one is messing with bearing installation/removal yet. It's the crank that folks need to fit into the bearings. The oil seals are also already mounted, they should be removed prior to fitting the crank and pressed in after the crank is in place.


Remove the flywheel side bearing and install it on the crank. Heat the case and drop the bearing/crank into the case. Pull the case halves together either case bolts. I've done it many times and never stripped a thread. The key is to only tighten it maybe 1/2 turn and go to the other side. If you want longer bolts, they're readily available at any hardware store.


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## Bedford T

I became more educated and felt I had caveman's my way and damaged this good equipment.

I want a good saw so I am going to start over. The bearing are too tight, I am certain I over did it. I do not want to complete it and chase problems. My gut tells me this is the way for me. I used a hammer and a block of wood at first, that might clear it up for you.. Yes I am using farmertec. $20 crank, 3$ seals etc

I want to install it correctly, bearings then the crank and lastly the seal. Without beating on the crank hard. Taps are needed. I will be happy then.

I should have reordered seals and waited for them to arrive, removed seals and installed crank with heat then placed new seals. Or even bearing on crank.

I got impatient and wanted it to happen immediately. Wrong way for me.




Kostas said:


> What happened?You reordered from Huztl i assume.


----------



## Kostas

Ok,i see.Go the way that makes you feel happy.You guys are saying that the bearings are preinstalled to the cases.Why don't you just put the crank in the freezer for a day or so?I bet it will fall right in the bearing,maybe with a little pressure or a couple gentle taps.I agree 100% with the procedure blsnelling discribes but why going backward(remove the bearing from the case to install it to the crank) to move forward(then install the bearing-crank to the case).I am not here to give lessons,i am far from expert but according to my limited experience,the bearing to the case is a more tight fit than the crank to the bearing.


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## Bedford T

This thread is about assembling the kit. There has to be many ways of doing it. I have expressed many times in this thread that I am greatful the bearings are installed. I take your point, because I have recognized that from day one with the kit in hand.

I will not waste your time explaining I feel like I messed up the parts and starting from scratch is the only way I can undo it at this point. Parts have been ordered it's been decided.

Buy a kit and then you can tell me.

So everything is fine. I will let everyone know the minute I have something to report or a kit owner has a question. I personally am all good now.

Waiting on tools and parts. I will use heat when I get the parts.


----------



## davhul

ssm1699 said:


> Just curious, has anyone weighed the PHO to compare it to that of the actual Stihl PHO weight. Based on the manuals for the 066 and the 660, the 066 weights 16.1 lbs and the 660 weights 16.5. Those weights are without the B&C.



I bet this kit is aluminum. Is there a way to know I'm not sure?
The stihl's are magnesium so there might be a weight difference. 


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## trboxman

Shipping weight of the package was 19 lbs, inclusive of box, packaging materials, and several excess rubber bits. It's not too far off. I might get a chance to weigh the thing this weekend.


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## ssm1699

I am just being curious because a buddy of mine and my cousin, of whom work/worked for the city forestry, bitched about the weight of the 660 and 880 that they ran. I was just curious how this compared to a genuine 660, for weight. I myself would get one of these kits, if I had the money right now. But my family comes first right now and I don't really need a saw this big. Really, a 440 with a BB kit, would probably do all of the biggest stuff I will ever encounter.


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## trboxman

blsnelling said:


> The seals should never be installed before the crank and case halves are assembled. If they are, remove them. IMHO, this is a flaw in the kit..



From what I understand via the Service Manual and from talking with a local Stihl tech this is how Stihl sends cases for warranty work. Bearings & seals installed, serial number plate blank. The tech is supposed to stamp the SN from the bad saw onto the new case. The tech I talked to could remember having done exactly one in the last decade...

Now that I have it torn down and after all of the bearing this and bearing that conversations I'm going to go ahead and remove and replace the bearings. This is supposed to be about learning so I'm going to learn by doing.


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## blsnelling

trboxman said:


> From what I understand via the Service Manual and from talking with a local Stihl tech this is how Stihl sends cases for warranty work. Bearings & *seals installed*, serial number plate blank.


Was that part from a service manual?

The cases that I have purchased did not have seals installed but the bearings were. Having the bearings already in the case is not an issue if you have the Stihl crank puller. If you're installing a crank without the Stihl puller, you'll need to remove the flywheel side bearing since you don't want to drive the crank into the bearing. If the bearing is removed, it's easy to hold the crank web and install the bearing. At that point is when you can heat the case and drop the bearing/crank assembly into the case.


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## trboxman

blsnelling said:


> Was that part from a service manual?
> 
> The cases that I have purchased did not have seals installed but the bearings were. Having the bearings already in the case is not an issue if you have the Stihl crank puller. If you're installing a crank without the Stihl puller, you'll need to remove the flywheel side bearing since you don't want to drive the crank into the bearing. If the bearing is removed, it's easy to hold the crank web and install the bearing. At that point is when you can heat the case and drop the bearing/crank assembly into the case.



Yes, that part is from the MS660 service manual. I have the pullers so while not the process that I'll follow it will be useful info for others.


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## davhul

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## davhul

Bad pics. Lmk if you can't read it 


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## trboxman

davhul said:


> Bad pics. Lmk if you can't read it
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Perfectly clear to me.


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## Bedford T

Clear as can be. This all is very interesting and good for farmertec.

I have been looking for an investment and approached farmertec way before this thread and they went it alone and I think for good reason. I found an actual manufacturer who is will to produce the kits. I have much work ahead of me. It's possible that quailty low cost kits become a normal thing, not temporary.


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## Bedford T

I would like to see a 72cc and that's all I will say because this should be about building the kit


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## davhul

I use to have all the original books from stihl on all there saws and trimmers. But the Owner had some kids clean up stairs and they threw all the boxes of books out. But I still have my 064/066 book. 



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## davhul

Bedford T said:


> I would like to see a 72cc and that's all I will say because this should be about building the kit



How about the ms 460/461. It's 76cc


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## Bedford T

Yes, I would copy what they are doing and add a 460/461 unless I find there is a reason then I am sure a Aussie ms382 will do. Prefer the former take the latter


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## trboxman

Bedford T said:


> Clear as can be. This all is very interesting and good for farmertec.
> 
> I have been looking for an investment and approached farmertec way before this thread and they went it alone and I think for good reason. I found an actual manufacturer who is will to produce the kits. I have much work ahead of me. It's possible that quailty low cost kits become a normal thing, not temporary.



Hmmm...you and I are thinking in parallel lines.


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## bennn*e

Bedford T said:


> Yes, I would copy what they are doing and add a 460/461 unless I find there is a reason then I am sure a Aussie ms382 will do. Prefer the former take the latter



We don't get the 382 here. It's not currently fitted with a Z muffler so no dice. We still have the 381 till EPA type laws come in place which is happening then we will see what happens then


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## Bedford T

I am just not worldly enough. So it's new Zealand? And south Africa, Brazil?

I guess sales depend on the right muffler in the buyers country. Hope that does not apply to kits or might be almost complete kits, byo muffler, bar chain



bennn*e said:


> We don't get the 382 here. It's not currently fitted with a Z muffler so no dice. We still have the 381 till EPA type laws come in place which is happening then we will see what happens then


----------



## trboxman

I have a question for the experienced folks. When the manual says: 

Fit a new cylinder gasket (1),
curvature facing down, on the
crankcase.

Do they mean the convex side down or the concave side down?
crankcase -->|(
crankcase -->|)


----------



## davhul

Honestly I'm not sure. I've done it both ways and didnt see a difference. Even did a pressure test. So I've never called stihl on it. Early on the 066 my book says middle raised part up and now they say curvature down. I would say they mean |). People use beer cans and anything else that gets their squish right. 


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## Vtrombly

trboxman said:


> I have a question for the experienced folks. When the manual says:
> 
> Fit a new cylinder gasket (1),
> curvature facing down, on the
> crankcase.
> 
> Do they mean the convex side down or the concave side down?
> crankcase -->|(
> crankcase -->|)


@weimedog


----------



## CR888

trboxman said:


> I have a question for the experienced folks. When the manual says:
> 
> Fit a new cylinder gasket (1),
> curvature facing down, on the
> crankcase.
> 
> Do they mean the convex side down or the concave side down?
> crankcase -->|(
> crankcase -->|)


I've always interperated it to be convex side down concave side up.


----------



## cedarshark

I make my own gaskets (over 100) from paper stock w/ a razor blade and leather punch. It has no concave or concave curve and even if it did, it would make no difference whatsoever.


----------



## Bedford T

Concave describes the bottom , Bowl sitting on counter ready for cereal.

I looked at the gasket for the first time and surely the bowl does sit on the counter. The piston comes down the pipe and would make sense for it to be out of reach. Laying it down in place the gasket would make the best surface contact that way.


----------



## trboxman

Bedford T said:


> Concave describes the bottom , Bowl sitting on counter ready for cereal.



A bowl sitting on a counter ready for cereal has the convex side down.


----------



## Bedford T

Google says concave

having an outline or surface that curves inward like the interior of a circle or sphere.
synonyms: incurvate, curved inward, hollow,depressed, sunken;
indented, recessed
"a small concave area now filled with rainwater"

So ok




trboxman said:


> A bowl sitting on a counter ready for cereal has the convex side down.


----------



## trboxman

Bedford T said:


> Google says concave
> 
> having an outline or surface that curves inward like the interior of a circle or sphere.
> synonyms: incurvate, curved inward, hollow,depressed, sunken;
> indented, recessed
> "a small concave area now filled with rainwater"
> 
> So ok



Right, concave is up or your cereal bowl won't hold milk or cereal, ergo convex side is down just like I said earlier. A typical bowl and a bead run in a sheet of metal has both a convex and a concave side, that's why the word "curvature" is perfectly ambiguous.


----------



## cedarshark

Even if the gasket had a convex or concave curvature(which I dont believe) it would make no difference which way it was placed on the base. As the cylinder bolts were tightened, the gasket would spread outward a tiny amount til it flattened. The amount it spread out is so small it is meaningless.


----------



## trboxman

cedarshark said:


> Even if the gasket had a convex or concave curvature(which I dont believe) it would make no difference which way it was placed on the base. As the cylinder bolts were tightened, the gasket would spread outward a tiny amount til it flattened. The amount it spread out is so small it is meaningless.



Understood clearly.


----------



## Bedford T

I gotta speak out. I think it does matter or the gasket would be flat when they designed it.



cedarshark said:


> Even if the gasket had a convex or concave curvature(which I dont believe) it would make no difference which way it was placed on the base. As the cylinder bolts were tightened, the gasket would spread outward a tiny amount til it flattened. The amount it spread out is so small it is meaningless.


----------



## Bedford T

So I just called 1 (757) 486-9100 and asked for technical services and they said in fact it does matter on the 660. The gasket sits on the shoulder and rolls downward towards the crank.

So you can do it anyway you want but this is how it was intended


----------



## davhul

Just wondering does the kit also come with the 1mm low compression paper gasket or just the 0.5mm metal.







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## Bedford T

One metal 0.50mm came in my kit. And the same gasket in the Stihl service manual.


----------



## davhul

Ok. And on the bar cover chamfer. If only has to be about 1/8 deep. That's all that's sticks up above the bar.






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## trboxman

Bedford T said:


> So I just called 1 (757) 486-9100 and asked for technical services and they said in fact it does matter on the 660. The gasket sits on the shoulder and rolls downward towards the crank.
> 
> So you can do it anyway you want but this is how it was intended



I was going to speculate that the convex side would face the most thermally active/affected component. That would be the cylinder. Thanks for taking the initiative and the time to get the official answer.


----------



## weimedog

davhul said:


> Honestly I'm not sure. I've done it both ways and didnt see a difference. Even did a pressure test. So I've never called stihl on it. Early on the 066 my book says middle raised part up and now they say curvature down. I would say they mean |). People use beer cans and anything else that gets their squish right.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



1184 fixes all kind of things.


----------



## trboxman

weimedog said:


> 1184 fixes all kind of things.



Do you use that on your base gasket as a matter of course?


----------



## weimedog

trboxman said:


> Do you use that on your base gasket as a matter of course?



Always now. Also found that if the "raised" section was down it would have a greater chance of interfering with the BB 56mm piston than when it was up. Might simply be because with it up the piston helped "center" that gasket as I also made a point of having the piston at BDC when seating the cylinder, especially with the 56mm cylinder. I'm not a Stihl guy so really don't know the "official" way.. So I finally just used a die grinder to make clearance for the 56mm's ....and 1184. Red neck engineering! But those saws still run. No leaks. Interesting some one posted Stihl has it both ways, one way in the old 066 manual and the other with tech support. I've realized over the years at some point you have to have the confidence to do what works best for your situation, obviously with guidance from the "experts" also understanding what works sometimes fly's in the face of that advice.

My advice?? if you don't have that mechanical sense .. RTFM! If you do, follow your instincts.


----------



## Bedford T

Just a reminder this is about building the kit. How it works on your engineered 56mm does not exactly translate. You are given one gasket. I wanted it on record how it should be placed. It's about the kit.

Let me be clear, can we not say clearly in the thread this "x" is correctly installed by "doing". Then talk about the comparable 56 with its short skirt and how regardless it's still a monster. Come on.

Please lead the blind




weimedog said:


> Always now. Also found that if the "raised" section was down it would have a greater chance of interfering with the BB 56mm piston than when it was up. Might simply be because with it up the piston helped "center" that gasket as I also made a point of having the piston at BDC when seating the cylinder, especially with the 56mm cylinder. I'm not a Stihl guy so really don't know the "official" way.. So I finally just used a die grinder to make clearance for the 56mm's ....and 1184. Red neck engineering! But those saws still run. No leaks. Interesting some one posted Stihl has it both ways, one way in the old 066 manual and the other with tech support. I've realized over the years at some point you have to have the confidence to do what works best for your situation, obviously with guidance from the "experts" also understanding what works sometimes fly's in the face of that advice.
> 
> My advice?? if you don't have that mechanical sense .. RTFM! If you do, follow your instincts.


----------



## pafire

Subscribed. Interested to see how these turn out.


----------



## davhul

Checked shipping mine should be here Friday 


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## weimedog

Bedford T said:


> Just a reminder this is about building the kit. How it works on your engineered 56mm does not exactly translate. You are given one gasket. I wanted it on record how it should be placed. It's about the kit.
> 
> Let me be clear, can we not say clearly in the thread this "x" is correctly installed by "doing". Then talk about the comparable 56 with its short skirt and how regardless it's still a monster. Come on.
> 
> Please lead the blind




RTFM... & just Ignore & skip over the chicken gallery.  That (Shop Manual) is designed to lead folks through as best as those engineers could in a repeatable way. The lowest common denominator in a successful build. And along with a Stihl tech or three posting here you folks are in good hands. So build away! I'm on the side lines on this one, part of said chicken gallery!

Just please remember not all watching this are as drilled down and focused, everyone has their own reasons to follow this. Some are interested as I was in using the parts on old saws so things like modding the side covers are of interest, some interested in these AM parts as potential upgrades (56mm?), some just want to see if these parts are relevant & a viable option (Not "junk" as the conventional wisdom would have us believe). Nothing better than a crisp running saw built from those parts to answer that question!

I'm way more interested in the different permutations & technics folks develop building this. A particular interest is watching those who adapt and innovate ways to get the stickier tasks done without the "factory" tools. Things like the "hair spray" to ease the anti vib buffer installation pain. Especially if a simple set of tools can be used. That is MY particular interest. A conceptual broad band type. 

To me, this saw chassis is a wonderful platform for an experienced sawyer & enthusiast mechanic to start with and then morph to something unique to them....be it a modded 56mm build or stock 54mm, what a great way to learn the saw building game.

I Just wish you folks were more local so we could have, as I mentioned before; a GTG with these monsters a theme.


----------



## jackjcc

Can somebody post the part number for the crank puller? To put the halves together I want to price it out. 


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## trboxman

jackjcc said:


> Can somebody post the part number for the crank puller? To put the halves together I want to price it out.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



There are two, one for the clutch side and one for the flywheel side.
Clutch side: *5910-007-2222*
Flywheel side: *5910-007-2201*

Only the clutch side is needed to split the case, both sides are needed to pull the crank through the bearings on their respective sides. And as has been pointed out several times, there is more than one way to skin a cat, many are much more cost effective.


----------



## MustangMike

weimedog said:


> RTFM... & just Ignore & skip over the chicken gallery.  That (Shop Manual) is designed to lead folks through as best as those engineers could in a repeatable way. The lowest common denominator in a successful build. And along with a Stihl tech or three posting here you folks are in good hands. So build away! I'm on the side lines on this one, part of said chicken gallery!
> 
> Just please remember not all watching this are as drilled down and focused, everyone has their own reasons to follow this. Some are interested as I was in using the parts on old saws so things like modding the side covers are of interest, some interested in these AM parts as potential upgrades (56mm?), some just want to see if these parts are relevant & a viable option (Not "junk" as the conventional wisdom would have us believe). Nothing better than a crisp running saw built from those parts to answer that question!
> 
> I'm way more interested in the different permutations & technics folks develop building this. A particular interest is watching those who adapt and innovate ways to get the stickier tasks done without the "factory" tools. Things like the "hair spray" to ease the anti vib buffer installation pain. Especially if a simple set of tools can be used. That is MY particular interest. A conceptual broad band type.
> 
> To me, this saw chassis is a wonderful platform for an experienced sawyer & enthusiast mechanic to start with and then morph to something unique to them....be it a modded 56mm build or stock 54mm, what a great way to learn the saw building game.
> 
> I Just wish you folks were more local so we could have, as I mentioned before; a GTG with these monsters a theme.



So where in Central NY are you??? Although I live in Brewster, I have property near Hancock and relatives near West Winfield (below Utica). I would love to see that big bore in action. I'm looking for something to help with my milling, and to run a 36" now & then. My ported 046/460s do both right now, but I'm not always sure they are the best for the task. Unfortunately, I find stock 660s to be lethargic.


----------



## tbohn

My new toys showed up yesterday. I ordered a ms660 and a big bore p&c too. I also ordered a 372 kit.

I am surprised by the small size of boxes they came in even with the extra 56mm cylinder. The boxes were deformed from shipping but it does not appear that anything is broken. I probably won't start the build until next week. I planning to install the crank with the bearings and seals in place. I don't have press so I am planning on heating the cases and cooling the shaft. I hope I can lub the seals and take care not to screw them up.

All work documenting the process by others on this site will be of great help. I'm not sure what I can add that hasn't already been discussed. I started a shreadsheet that converts piston timing in degrees to millimeters from TDC. I still need to determine the connecting rod length from pin center to pin center, wrist pin center to top of pistion, and combustion chamber volume above the piston at TDC. This shreadsheet also shows displacement values at different degrees in the cycle along with pistion speed relative to crank rotation.


----------



## davhul

tbohn said:


> I started a shreadsheet that converts piston timing in degrees to millimeters from TDC. I still need to determine the connecting rod length from pin center to pin center, wrist pin center to top of pistion, and combustion chamber volume above the piston at TDC. This shreadsheet also shows displacement values at different degrees in the cycle along with pistion speed relative to crank rotation.


What's your plans on it after the build? 



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## trboxman

tbohn said:


> My new toys showed up yesterday. I ordered a ms660 and a big bore p&c too. I also ordered a 372 kit.
> 
> I am surprised by the small size of boxes they came in even with the extra 56mm cylinder. The boxes were deformed from shipping but it does not appear that anything is broken. I probably won't start the build until next week. I planning to install the crank with the bearings and seals in place. I don't have press so I am planning on heating the cases and cooling the shaft. I hope I can lub the seals and take care not to screw them up.
> 
> All work documenting the process by others on this site will be of great help. I'm not sure what I can add that hasn't already been discussed. I started a shreadsheet that converts piston timing in degrees to millimeters from TDC. I still need to determine the connecting rod length from pin center to pin center, wrist pin center to top of pistion, and combustion chamber volume above the piston at TDC. This shreadsheet also shows displacement values at different degrees in the cycle along with pistion speed relative to crank rotation.



I'm no expert but I'd probably pull the seals if I was planning on using heat for this.

Have fun!


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## davhul

Atleast the clutch side. But won't hurt to try just vacc test it afterward 


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## tbohn

Plans...what plans. I need this saw about as much as I need a hole in my foot. I do like to tinker with saw though. Most saws I tinker with are dirty, cheap, and don't work. I have property up in Northern MN. Fortunately for me, we had a big straight line wind storm in July and I have about two dozen 20 inch Dia Aspens and Firs waiting for me. Most of the Aspens are snapped off about 15 feet up, still connected.


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## tbohn

Both my 56mm and 54mm cylinders look good. The 56mm has nice smooth edges on the ports and the ports look symmetrical. It does have a small pit in the cylinder wall between one of the transfer port's inlet and outlet. It is maybe 1/2 mm in size. I don't think I am going to worry about it. The 54mm cylinder doesn't have any pitting but the transfer port edges do have some casting ridges that I probably will smooth out.

I'm going to build it with the 56mm kit. I slipped the piston into the cylinder and with the top of the piston fully up against top of the cylinder, I have about 20 mils of freeport gap under the piston skirt in the exhaust port. I figure if I get over 20 mils of squish I should be golden!


----------



## tbohn

tbohn said:


> Both my 56mm and 54mm cylinders look good. The 56mm has nice smooth edges on the ports and the ports look symmetrical. It does have a small pit in the cylinder wall between one of the transfer port's inlet and outlet. It is maybe 1/2 mm in size. I don't think I am going to worry about it. The 54mm cylinder doesn't have any pitting but the transfer port edges do have some casting ridges that I probably will smooth out.
> 
> I'm going to build it with the 56mm kit. I slipped the piston into the cylinder and with the top of the piston fully up against top of the cylinder, I have about 20 mils of freeport gap under the piston skirt in the exhaust port. I figure if I get over 20 mils of squish I should be golden!


Here is a photo of the pit in the cylinder wall on the 56mmView attachment 528432
View attachment 528432


----------



## tbohn

tbohn said:


> Both my 56mm and 54mm cylinders look good. The 56mm has nice smooth edges on the ports and the ports look symmetrical. It does have a small pit in the cylinder wall between one of the transfer port's inlet and outlet. It is maybe 1/2 mm in size. I don't think I am going to worry about it. The 54mm cylinder doesn't have any pitting but the transfer port edges do have some casting ridges that I probably will smooth out.
> 
> I'm going to build it with the 56mm kit. I slipped the piston into the cylinder and with the top of the piston fully up against top of the cylinder, I have about 20 mils of freeport gap under the piston skirt in the exhaust port. I figure if I get over 20 mils of squish I should be golden!


Here is the small pit in the cylinder of the 56mm.


----------



## davhul

Ok. My phone hasn't got the memory for video. But I just got back from the soccer game and seen my kit at the door. So I'm starting NOW.im going to build and post it. I'll atleast do the case tonight. It's 10:00 now. No special tools. Just how I done it on that 026 when I was 17. I'm not saying do it like this. But it is a $250 saw. Not a $1300 saw. 
When I opened the box the packaging looked good. Opened everything up. The only thing I see looks sub par is the case gasket. So I painted a very fine line of dirko with the gasket. Im heating with a heat gun but the bearing cage is not as tuff as a oem. It will blister easy so be careful. 




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## davhul

I did pop the seals out. I'm not using them. They looked like good quality but it adds unnecessary difficulty. 


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## davhul

Got he case together. It just slid right together with a back and forth rocking motion. Oh yeah. I did freeze the crank in its bag. 
. I didn't have to pull it together with the bolts. But if you have to you can. 


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## davhul

My crank was sitting .017 to the right. I came up I needed .026 on both sides of the crank to be straight. 



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## blsnelling

davhul said:


> It just slid right together with a back and forth rocking motion. Oh yeah. I did freeze the crank in its bag. I didn't have to pull it together with the bolts.


That's a little disconcerting.


----------



## davhul

Got OE seals in. Used a punch and went around and around the edge. 



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## davhul

blsnelling said:


> That's a little disconcerting.



The bearings aren't lose in the case. 


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## davhul

I'm done For today. The chamfering on the cylinder looks like a kid with a pick axe did it. So got to clean that up tomorrow. 



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## davhul

There's a 1/8 shear drop to the transfers. I just had to clean. It really needs a light port and clean up 

job.

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## trboxman

blsnelling said:


> That's a little disconcerting.



With heat and freeze you still find that disconcerting?


----------



## davhul

The crank was -3. Had it in my deep freezer 


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## trboxman

davhul said:


> The crank was -3. Had it in my deep freezer
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I don't find it disconcerting, I've done thermal fitting of bearings several times on other items with similar results.


----------



## jackjcc

Just couldn't put it down eh?


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## davhul

tbohn said:


> Here is the small pit in the cylinder of the 56mm.



That Looks like a crack.


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## MustangMike

davhul said:


> Got he case together. It just slid right together with a back and forth rocking motion. Oh yeah. I did freeze the crank in its bag. View attachment 528474
> . I didn't have to pull it together with the bolts. But if you have to you can.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Now wait just a dang second there, your using a Classic Mustang as a parts bench for a $250 saw???


----------



## tbohn

davhul said:


> That Looks like a crack.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It's a casting blemish. Both cylinders had this in both transfers.


----------



## trboxman

MustangMike said:


> Now wait just a dang second there, your using a Classic Mustang as a parts bench for a $250 saw???


'69?


----------



## MustangMike

No, it is a 65 or 66.


----------



## davhul

1966' coupe with a 68' 302 stroked to 347. No I just have a few parts laid out on a towel.


----------



## davhul

jackjcc said:


> Just couldn't put it down eh?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



No. That's a slow down so finish tomorrow. 


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## davhul

I sold a 72 Mach 1. 351c. Power everything, A/c, deluxe interior, c-4. About 12 years ago and seen it the other day for first time. And he changed the color that I had. Same car. 




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## MustangMike

I'm currently on Mustang #10, a 2006 w/Whipple Twin Screw Inter cooled SC (530 HP).

Had a 65 289, 2 67s, 3 68s, a 70 Boss 302 body w/427 Ford Engine, an 85 GT, 90 GT and the current one. Also had an 85 T Bird Turbo Coupe and a 92 T Bird SC. All of the classics were fastbacks, and included 2 390s and a 428 CJ (in a 68).

That punched out motor in that light little car should run very nicely.


----------



## davhul

Just put on some afr heads 


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## davhul

Ok I got off at 12 so I finished up the cylinder. I cleaned it up. And didn't check the squish. I'll do that later when I port. 

Got the piston and rings on. Rings have to fit in the pins. And arrow on piston has to face exhaust. 


Bolted down with black screws. 


Got the chain brake together 


This is the special tool I used to stretch the brake spring. 


Holds pressure 


Holds vacc



Now I'm starting on installing bushings and handle. But I have to stop at 2:15 


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## davhul

Got this before I had to quit


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## davhul

Got it ready to for gas and oil. Going to try it when I get back. 


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## davhul

150 psi








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## blsnelling

What's your total build time?


----------



## davhul

My cylinder had a nick on it that wouldn't have sealed if I didn't smooth it out. 



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## davhul

blsnelling said:


> What's your total build time?



With the pics and waiting on slow cell internet. And cleaning the cylinder. 
4 1/2. 
If I already had the cylinder done maybe 3.


----------



## jackjcc

What did you put on the case gasket for a sealant? What is the best recommendation? I've used motoseal for replacing gaskets, but I'm not sure the case would be the best application for it. 


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## davhul

Used dirko with the gasket. Very little very thin film. The gasket looked cheap. And was cheap. I should have went oem. Can't skimp there. 


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## davhul

Ran a tank through it. 


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## davhul

Running a little fat at 13,300. Leaving it there for now. Stihl ultra 32:1
25" RS stihl chain. With about 2 tanks on it. Carb settings were 1 1/4 L 1 1/2 H



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## davhul

I thought about lifting the metering arm a few thousands. 


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## jackjcc

Nicely done! You got that's together and posted a video insanely fast. @davhul wins the first too and posted a lot of good pics and info. I appreciate your effort!


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## davhul

You know huztl's watching this thread. And you can bet their selling some kits. 
Should be a coupon code for free shipping some time. 



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## jackjcc

Does it feel solid using it and cutting? Can you tell there is a difference between the huztle and OEM?


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## davhul

jackjcc said:


> Does it feel solid using it and cutting? Can you tell there is a difference between the huztle and OEM?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I can tell the oem is a lot smoother and you can't feel anything but he chain in the wood. Where this kit saw has some vibration but not a whole lot. If I ran it 8hrs a day I would get it and If I didn't like it I could sell it and still make a few dollars. 
For a home owner who uses it on the weekend I think it would fill their needs. The power feels like a muffler modded MS 460 with the carb tuned. 
It would run a 36". Just like my 460 has. But It's currently on my 064. 

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## blsnelling

AV difference would have to be in the buffers themselves I would think.


----------



## davhul

Maybe that and you can feel that $20 crank a little. Not sure how it would like porting and over 14,000 rpm. Makes you think might be pushing it. 


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## davhul

Guess it's like building a jeep from a rock auto 
warehouse. Guess that's a good way to explain it. 


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## davhul

Maybe it was just mine but I don't know how long it would have run with the slag hanging Into cylinder around the transfers. 


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## trboxman

Depending on the year of mfg that might be a serious improvement over stock...

At $240 shipped I'd imagine that the average non-professional user can live with some negatives as long as they're not safety concerns, especially if they'll last 5+ years of average use. As far as I know there aren't example of longevity beyond a year or so...I'm sure that there are, but I haven't come across the info. 
I believe that @weimedog has a bit more than a year's worth of moderate use on them and I think that's pretty darned impressive.


----------



## MustangMike

davhul said:


> Maybe it was just mine but I don't know how long it would have run with the slag hanging Into cylinder around the transfers.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Is yours the BB or regular? (sorry if I missed it in previous posts)


----------



## davhul

Regular. Installed caber rings. 


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## jackjcc

I think caber rings are always a must. I put a cheap aftermarket kit on a husqy 240 with caber and one without. One ran and the other barely ran. 


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## davhul

I didn't try the ones it came with but the cabers seemed nice. Had plenty of tension. 


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## davhul

Everyone breaks them in their own way. But in this one I tuned it kinda fat and did a few heat cycles and went bogging it in the wood. In race engines you want to seat the rings quick as possible. Once the sharp edges are gone from honing break in slows down. Seen the difference. So I apply it on my saws 
Temp got about 265 on clutch side cylinder fins. On 4 cuts 
85° and 90% humidity 


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## weimedog

Mine with the 54mm both picked up power and lost vibration as it broke in. Around tank number 10 it was at its best. I did one with and without any cleaning up on the ports. Both are still running. The built with "as delivered" parts saw is in the hands of a guy who sells firewood. Still runs strong. The "cleaned up" build isn't much stronger than the as delivered version but it has a more crisp feel to it.. throttle response idle etc. All improved.

My 56mm version gets run frequently and this will be the second firewood season for it. As for power... its got more than both stock saws it was compared too. Also noticeably more than the 54mm saws.

Not being a Stihl guy...I started mine at 12500. Now the 54mm and the 56mm sit at 13300-13500 depending on temp & humidity. (56mm i keep closer to 13300) The 56MM Version does vibrate more and still needs a carb tweak as the weather changes..just a little more finicky than the 54's

In my mind they all are in the ball park power wise with the saws in that displacement class. In those cookie cut comparisons a bar/chain difference will often sway the results so my total bar / LGX combo sharpened my way easily could have impacted my impromptu comparisons. Bottom line is for the $400 dollar price point there is nothing you can buy new even close. Pretty amazing that it gets compared favorably to a stock version when you think about it.

If I was to do this again I think I would take a tweaked 54mm version over the 56 simply because they are easier to live with once the novelty is done, the measuring sticks put away, and day in day out I'm looking at a pile of work with no one but mother nature watching.


----------



## BuckthornBonnie

Bedford T said:


> Just a reminder this is about building the kit. How it works on your engineered 56mm does not exactly translate. You are given one gasket. I wanted it on record how it should be placed. It's about the kit.
> 
> Let me be clear, can we not say clearly in the thread this "x" is correctly installed by "doing". Then talk about the comparable 56 with its short skirt and how regardless it's still a monster. Come on.
> 
> Please lead the blind


 
Ignore.


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## davhul

You won't find a better saw for the price. But that was people's questions all along is how it compares. Then you know where it stands. Most people would be happy if it last 5 years it Could last longer no one knows yet. Also they would know how to fix it with a $35 P&C since they put it together initially. 


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## davhul

Ok. Have a problem. I noticed a bar oil leak from the start yesterday but figured it was the cap as I read somewhere the caps might need oem. Well it's not the cap it's leaking from the hole next to the cap. Look inside and there's a crack. That's the left side case. For now I'm going to clean and sand. Then wipe some dirko over it. Then contact huztl next week. 



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## trboxman

Wow. Good catch, poor QC work on their part.


----------



## Definitive Dave

DO NOT modify a part you intend to return.
How does the vendor know your modification/repair (sanding, dirko) was necessitated by a manufacturing defect and not by something you did?

Making any modification or repair without specific instructions to do so from the seller absolutely nullifies your buyer protections from Ebay and Paypal.
Be patient, contact Farmertec and ask what they want you to do.
Dave


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## davhul

Really why would they want me to ship it back and waste my time and their money. Just ship another out. If they don't, then I feel the sealant will fix it. If it doesn't I'll tear it down and tig weld it instead of waiting 2 weeks at earliest. It hasn't cracked any running it today. I'm not selling it. It's going to be a saw I loan out to a couple friends. 


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## davhul

weimedog said:


> Mine with the 54mm both picked up power and lost vibration as it broke in. Around tank number 10 it was at its best. I did one with and without any cleaning up on the ports. Both are still running. The built with "as delivered" parts saw is in the hands of a guy who sells firewood. Still runs strong. The "cleaned up" build isn't much stronger than the as delivered version but it has a more crisp feel to it.. throttle response idle etc. All improved.
> 
> My 56mm version gets run frequently and this will be the second firewood season for it. As for power... its got more than both stock saws it was compared too. Also noticeably more than the 54mm saws.
> 
> Not being a Stihl guy...I started mine at 12500. Now the 54mm and the 56mm sit at 13300-13500 depending on temp & humidity. (56mm i keep closer to 13300) The 56MM Version does vibrate more and still needs a carb tweak as the weather changes..just a little more finicky than the 54's
> 
> In my mind they all are in the ball park power wise with the saws in that displacement class. In those cookie cut comparisons a bar/chain difference will often sway the results so my total bar / LGX combo sharpened my way easily could have impacted my impromptu comparisons. Bottom line is for the $400 dollar price point there is nothing you can buy new even close. Pretty amazing that it gets compared favorably to a stock version when you think about it.
> 
> If I was to do this again I think I would take a tweaked 54mm version over the 56 simply because they are easier to live with once the novelty is done, the measuring sticks put away, and day in day out I'm looking at a pile of work with no one but mother nature watching.



How much compression did the 54mm have last time you checked? Mine was 150 un- started. I'll check it tomorrow at 1.5hrs on the meter. I Have a hour meter mounted. 


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## MustangMike

I got a few questions:

Is everyone running caber rings??? It is likely a good idea, some cheap insurance.

I went on line to the Huztl site, and I saw the 660, but not a 660 big bore. Was the P&C for the big bore purchased in addition?

I also saw they gave a discount on 6 or more orders, don't know if they also discount the shipping, but I'll bet I could find a few other who want one of these. I may take advantage of that!

Also, are most of you guys checking the squish and deleting the base gasket when possible? I know this can make quite a difference on some saws, and If I get a saw this big, I would want a strong runner (other wise, I would use a smaller saw).


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## davhul

I installed caber rings. I may have went with NWP if they were In Stock. Tomorrow I'm pulling the muffler and taking a look at things.And advancing the timing 8°. I plan on checking the squish when I do a port. 
But I want to see how it runs stock With a basic timing mod. 
Friday I might be going to a near by saw mill to tune my ported 460 and let them put some hours on the AM saw bucking. 
Ultra 32:1 90oct E-0 
13,300 rpm, cj6 plug. 


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## tbohn

MustangMike said:


> I got a few questions:
> 
> Is everyone running caber rings??? It is likely a good idea, some cheap insurance.
> 
> I went on line to the Huztl site, and I saw the 660, but not a 660 big bore. Was the P&C for the big bore purchased in addition?
> 
> I also saw they gave a discount on 6 or more orders, don't know if they also discount the shipping, but I'll bet I could find a few other who want one of these. I may take advantage of that!
> 
> Also, are most of you guys checking the squish and deleting the base gasket when possible? I know this can make quite a difference on some saws, and If I get a saw this big, I would want a strong runner (other wise, I would use a smaller saw).


I am going with the huztl rings. If they wear out I will replace them.
I ordered the big bore kit along with the complete parts kit. It was packed in the same box.
I think the cost with shipping for six is $1,105 so there is discount for shipping along with reduced cost per unit. I am thinking of get 6 more but I really only want 1 or two more. I sure the extras could be sold on ebay or craigslist but I don't want to hassle with warranties and returns.


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## davhul

One other thing I noticed. When you put the control lever on choke it works as it should. Closes choke and puts it on part throttle. 
When you go up one notch it doesn't stay on part throttle. 
I tried a new oem control lever still no. Will order a trigger tomorrow and see if that will fix it. 


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## jackjcc

So it won't stay on high idle? 


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## davhul

No. I'll see if a new trigger will solve it. It's like the trigger arm that touches the control arm to hold it open is short by a little. 
If you do it slow it will hold barely. But then if you push it to far it won't hold it. When the trigger comes in I'll interrogate it more. 


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## tbohn

tbohn said:


> I am going with the huztl rings. If they wear out I will replace them.
> I ordered the big bore kit along with the complete parts kit. It was packed in the same box.
> I think the cost with shipping for six is $1,105 so there is discount for shipping along with reduced cost per unit. I am thinking of get 6 more but I really only want 1 or two more. I sure the extras could be sold on ebay or craigslist but I don't want to hassle with warranties and returns.


I just finished putting the two case halves together. I took the crank out of the freezer and stuck the case halves in the oven. I turned the oven to 250f, turned it off and stuck the case in there for about 10 minutes. The clutch side slipped in pretty easy the clutch side went in far enough the get the 6 case bolts in. I slowly tightened the bolts as rotated around the bolts. I also turned the crank periodically to get the seals to behave. The crank was also wet from coming out of the freezer so the seals did not invert. Everything worked great and I did not have to apply very much pressure to the bolts.


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## blsnelling

tbohn said:


> The crank was also *wet* from coming out of the freezer...


That's one of the main reasons I don't put anything in the freezer, also that I've found it's not needed. Heat is all you need.


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## tbohn

23 mil squish on the 56mm with no gasket. Checked it three times. Is that enough?


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## tbohn

tbohn said:


> 23 mil squish on the 56mm with no gasket. Checked it three times. Is that enough?


I have about 13 mil of freeport.


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## davhul

tbohn said:


> 23 mil squish on the 56mm with no gasket. Checked it three times. Is that enough?



From what I read on 660's is .020 is preferred for power as compression.
.023 should be safe. Do you plan on a pressure/vacc test To see how it's sealed? 


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## tbohn

tbohn said:


> 23 mil squish on the 56mm with no gasket. Checked it three times. Is that enough?


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## davhul

Do you have .023 squish?Or you checking in mm? 


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## MustangMike

tbohn said:


> 23 mil squish on the 56mm with no gasket. Checked it three times. Is that enough?



That should be fine. I have a 440 with 19/1000, no problems.


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## tbohn

davhul said:


> From what I read on 660's is .020 is preferred for power as compression.
> .023 should be safe. Do you plan on a pressure/vacc test To see how it's sealed?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes. I will check for leaks. Thanks for the response!


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## tbohn

davhul said:


> Do you have .023 squish?Or you checking in mm?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


.023


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## davhul

That's what I was thinking you meant. It's good. 


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## tbohn

tbohn said:


> .023


Battery is dead on my micrometer. I verified the micrometer with a feeler gauge.


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## davhul

I contacted huztl:
Dear sir,
Thanks for your business.
We are having the National Holiday for 7 days, including the logistics company. Thank you, Lynn 


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## trboxman

davhul said:


> I contacted huztl:
> Dear sir,
> Thanks for your business.
> We are having the National Holiday for 7 days, including the logistics company. Thank you, Lynn
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Typical Chinese. I was told things were delayed because they were moving warehouse locations. National day is Oct. 1. As far as I know it's not a 7 day holiday. Huztl shipped several things to me last week and today as well...it's Monday Oct. 3rd there right now...mid morning.

I just wished that they'd tell the same lie.


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## davhul

I had to check up on that. they have a holiday every week. 


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## davhul

We'll see if orders get shipped 


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## trboxman

I'll file that as "learned something new".


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## CR888

Good to see folks having a bit of fun with these saws.


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## bennn*e

Couple questions. Free porting- when the inlet side opens before the exhaust closes? And has any one got any of the other 'stihl' kits or just 660's?


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## jackjcc

I've got the 361 kit coming. I'm believe somebody had mentioned having one already, can't remember who. 


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## tbohn

bennn*e said:


> Couple questions. Free porting- when the inlet side opens before the exhaust closes? And has any one got any of the other 'stihl' kits or just 660's?


I understand freeporting as when the you have an open passage between the intake and the exhaust port through the crankcase at the same time. So on my 56mm kit, when the piston is TDC, there is a small gap under the piston on the exhaust side. At this point the intake cycle has just completed sucking in the air/fuel mixture. The pressure may still be slightly negative in the crankcase due to the flow resistance of the intake (filters, carb, carb boot,...). The exhaust may positive due to resistance of the exhaust muffler. I say may because TDC occurs when we are at the very end of the intake portion of the cycle and the exhaust portion of the cycle almost 250 degrees earlier so the exhaust pressure should be near its minimum.
All of this happens in a very short period of time and is very dependent on the flow properties of the intake and exhaust. On my saw, the gaps starts opening at about 8 degrees before TDC and closes at about 8 degrees after TDC. If I am running at 13,000 RPM, I will freeport for about 0.2 ms (.0002 seconds). I have no idea how this will effect the performance of the saw. I am confident that not having the 0.5mm (~20mil) gasket that came with the kit will help with compression.


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## trboxman

davhul said:


> We'll see if orders get shipped
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



They'll ship, but they likely won't ship any kits for at least another week. I don't think that we're at risk of being ripped off, they have too many parts available in the US and too high an Ebay rating to be ripoff artists....but their concept of "expedited" and "customer service" still needs working on. 

I'll let you know when my order status changes.


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## davhul

I'm not worried about getting ripped off yet. They've contacted me twice last night At 3am. I think their a 1/2 day behind us 


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## Kostas

I ordered a week ago some parts from westmachinery through ebay,the haven't sent anything yet.They told me that they delay because their factory is moving to another location.Anyway,i am thinking to order the 361 kit from Huztl.It is a little less than 200$ shipped to Greece(~135$ the kit and i think ~75$ the shipping).I am planning to run the saw as is and replace any broken parts with oem in the future.Question for the guys who allready have the 660,is there any mods that need to be done to the cylinder?I don't want to build a hot rod saw,just a "reliable" runner.If i assemble the parts just like they are,will it be ok?I don't mind to modifie the throttle linkage or the tank assembly to fit,i just want to avoid any mods to the cylinder like beveling the ports because i neither have the tools nor the knowledge.If the 361 worth the trouble,next order will be the 660 kit.


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## jackjcc

The port chamfer hasn't been up to standard for at least one person on the 660. I would run it and if it grenades replaces it with a highway kit. 


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## davhul

Not sure on the 361. But on the 660 Some have put it together with no mods to the cylinder. Mine I felt it needed to be done. When I slid the ring in the cylinder and pushed it up with the piston mine would catch some on the exhaust port roof. It didn't after I chamfered. 


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## davhul

jackjcc said:


> The port chamfer hasn't been up to standard for at least one person on the 660. I would run it and if it grenades replaces it with a highway kit.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



The hayway, nwp or meteor might be a good upgrade if you have problems. This is not my video. And all Chinese cylinders are not bad as I'm not bashing. Just some things to look for. 


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## tbohn

Kostas said:


> I ordered a week ago some parts from westmachinery through ebay,the haven't sent anything yet.They told me that they delay because their factory is moving to another location.Anyway,i am thinking to order the 361 kit from Huztl.It is a little less than 200$ shipped to Greece(~135$ the kit and i think ~75$ the shipping).I am planning to run the saw as is and replace any broken parts with oem in the future.Question for the guys who allready have the 660,is there any mods that need to be done to the cylinder?I don't want to build a hot rod saw,just a "reliable" runner.If i assemble the parts just like they are,will it be ok?I don't mind to modifie the throttle linkage or the tank assembly to fit,i just want to avoid any mods to the cylinder like beveling the ports because i neither have the tools nor the knowledge.If the 361 worth the trouble,next order will be the 660 kit.


I bought a 56mm kit along with the 54mm that came with the complete parts kit. The 56mm ports looked good - I only took a little off the bottom of the boot side of the inlet port. There was a large flange area that I brought down to match the boot diameter. The 54mm had more flashing and crud in the ports. If I were to install the 54mm I would have touched up the ports. The transfer ports were probably the worst.


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## Kostas

Ok i see.When it will be here,i'll clean and bevel the ports and i'll run it till it grenades.Then a Hyway kit will be in order.I need a saw like i need a hole in my head but i am more curious than a cat.I don't have a problem if it grenades,i couldn't care less.What makes me anxious is that what will happen if one day i drive for an hour,walk for 30 minutes to get to the field and the saw grenades.It is useless and waste of time.Yes i could bring a secont saw but there are some difficulties.When i go to the woods,i can only carry one saw and i must drive and then walk a lot.Anyway i assume that i must first test it a lot to home and then get it to the woods.


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## BTarb24

tbohn said:


> I am thinking of get 6 more but I really only want 1 or two more. I sure the extras could be sold on ebay or craigslist but I don't want to hassle with warranties and returns.



Keep in mind the kits are often missing key components. if you order a 6pack then you'd likely want to open and inspect each one against a complete list of parts to ensure none are missing.


----------



## trboxman

BTarb24 said:


> Keep in mind the kits are often missing key components. if you order a 6pack then you'd likely want to open and inspect each one against a complete list of parts to ensure none are missing.



That's my plan. I'm working on a complete BOM checklist based off of the first saw. I've also ordered extra fasteners of each type used in the kit so I have a ready supply of spares available so as long as there aren't complete missing components I should be fine.


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## davhul

Mine was missing the summer shutter, foil tape, bucking spike nuts. Replaced the fuel and oil cap They leaked. I had doubles of the rubber parts. 


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## Bedford T

farmertec has another name westmachinery to add to the list, farmertec is the one moving.



Kostas said:


> I ordered a week ago some parts from westmachinery through ebay,the haven't sent anything yet.They told me that they delay because their factory is moving to another location.Anyway,i am thinking to order the 361 kit from Huztl.It is a little less than 200$ shipped to Greece(~135$ the kit and i think ~75$ the shipping).I am planning to run the saw as is and replace any broken parts with oem in the future.Question for the guys who allready have the 660,is there any mods that need to be done to the cylinder?I don't want to build a hot rod saw,just a "reliable" runner.If i assemble the parts just like they are,will it be ok?I don't mind to modifie the throttle linkage or the tank assembly to fit,i just want to avoid any mods to the cylinder like beveling the ports because i neither have the tools nor the knowledge.If the 361 worth the trouble,next order will be the 660 kit.


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## davhul

Bedford T said:


> farmertec has another name westmachinery to add to the list, farmertec is the one moving.


They might have a different name for every continent 



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## Bedford T

fellas i am done except for the missing stuff, the list is short and I am dead in the water.

I had zero issues with the case using heat, danced all the way until I got to the carb and I shot myself in foot about 4 times getting the assembly out of order, I made a tool to slide the brake spring on using davhuls photo as a guide, got that on the second try. I thought the brake looked complicated until I got to it. The av system went smoothly with the assembly lube.

They did not supply the 3 bushings used to screw down the ms660 shroud 0000 963 0808. I got new skills! never done anything to an engine really. i rebuilt a carb once and it worked and changed out my bar and plugs and filters. I am amazed.


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## Bedford T

so the caps leaked? In the mean time I order some more from stihl. I am going to take what I have finished and show them, take it with me to order the sealing rings and see what he says, might throw me out. I am so bad.

Its hard not to want to crank it up


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## davhul

Good going. Your 660 name plate upside down 


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## davhul

My bushing not there either. I used some old ones 


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## Pagie

I ordered a 360 a while back and can get no response from them. What is the contact you use to talk to them?


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## davhul

[email protected]


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## Pagie

Thanks for that I have sent them an email asking where my 360 is. Ordered on the 24th.


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## davhul

Took 2 weeks to get mine 


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## Bedford T

They are on vacation till next week



Pagie said:


> Thanks for that I have sent them an email asking where my 360 is. Ordered on the 24th.


----------



## Definitive Dave

essentially the far east is on a 7 to 14 day long vacation, Italy does the same thing a couple times a year
Just part of the parts parade.
Dave


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## Pagie

Thanks everyone I just got a reply from [email protected] telling me they are on holiday and will be sending soon. Has anyone put together a 360 yet?


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## Pagie

Has anyone got a parts list for the 360 so when I get mine I can see if it all there?


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## tbohn

Almost finished the 660 build last night while watching football. Its kind of nice not having to worry about making a mess with a dirty saw! 
I have a few issues. 
1. The carb H adjuster was severly bent from shipping. I am concerned about air leak. I think they should send me a new carb.
2. Missing the black plastic "frame" under the air filter. I think its call a baffle.
3. Missing chain bumper strip that goes under the crankcase spike. I can't install the spike without it.
4. Missing carb mounting nuts
5. Missing one spike nut
6. Missing the top cover grommet
7. Missing the airbox slide (shutter)
8. The cylinder gasket was bent (kinked)
When I was putting the peices together I was thinking the quality is somewhat less than OEM but after it is assembled it feels very solid. There were a few minor mis-alignments but nothing i could easily fix. The kit rings come to a sharp point where they meet instead of shaped around the groove pin. I'll see how they hold up. The clutch drum is not round and rubs on the case some. The chain adjuster is not very smooth but i think it will work for me. The case gasket material appeared like cardboard but when I trimmed the ends it seemed tough enough.
I used a 56mm kit from Huztl and did not use the kit gasket. I have about 0.023-0.024 squish. I have not measured the compression but I can tell buy pulling it over that it is BRUTAL.


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## 67L36Driver

Pagie said:


> Has anyone got a parts list for the 360 so when I get mine I can see if it all there?



As much alike as all the Stihl pro grade saws are, I'd be using the same check list for any of them. 026 to 066


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## Hydro74

Finished my 660 build last weekend got er done in about 7 hours total. Put some fuel in her and she fired up! With little to no adjustment needed for the carb settings.
Mine was missing the usual parts as the other members I'm going to order a few more from them this weekend and ask that the missing parts be included in my order. The biggest complaint I have would be the chain tensioner
It's seems to be made out of very soft cheap material I switched mine out for the oem.
And yes my fuel/oil caps leaked too!


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## 67L36Driver

Flippy caps, bar nuts, bar tensioner worm & gear set and T-27 driver should be in every Stihlhead's field kit.


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## davhul

I found the rope needs replacing to. It started to fray with about 30-50 starts. 


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## Rio95

Pagie said:


> Has anyone got a parts list for the 360 so when I get mine I can see if it all there?



Try here. This is a full list of Stihl IPL's http://www.smaf-touseau.com/fr/eclates-tronconneuses-thermiques


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## Bedford T

Rio95 said:


> Try here. This is a full list of Stihl IPL's http://www.smaf-touseau.com/fr/eclates-tronconneuses-thermiques


Those cost? There are free ones in the beg section.


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## Rio95

Bedford T said:


> Those cost? There are free ones in the beg section.



No, they are free to download. Its handy because its got them all in one spot and saves digging through the beg section. I just found it a couple of days ago.


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## Bedford T

Did you buy OEM plastic? Mine did not say stihl or Magnum, in fact it was upside down.


Hydro74 said:


> View attachment 529398
> View attachment 529397
> View attachment 529396
> Finished my 660 build last weekend got er done in about 7 hours total. Put some fuel in her and she fired up! With little to no adjustment needed for the carb settings.
> Mine was missing the usual parts as the other members I'm going to order a few more from them this weekend and ask that the missing parts be included in my order. The biggest complaint I have would be the chain tensioner
> It's seems to be made out of very soft cheap material I switched mine out for the oem.
> And yes my fuel/oil caps leaked too!


----------



## blsnelling

Rio95 said:


> No, they are free to download. Its handy because its got them all in one spot and saves digging through the beg section. I just found it a couple of days ago.


They won't be there long.


----------



## Rio95

blsnelling said:


> They won't be there long.



A quick look around shows that they have been there since at least early 2011

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/stihl-spare-parts-list.188873/


----------



## Bedford T

He likely referring the extra traffic the post will generate



Rio95 said:


> A quick look around shows that they have been there since at least early 2011
> 
> http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/stihl-spare-parts-list.188873/


----------



## Pagie

Thanks everyone.


----------



## blsnelling

Stihl usually polices any site that shares their publications. Too bad the won't let the public have it like Husky does.


----------



## Hydro74

Bedford T said:


> Did you buy OEM plastic? Mine did not say stihl or Magnum, in fact it was upside down.


No there the original farmertec covers I just bought the name plate and sticker from an eBay seller


----------



## Bedford T

It's in France maybe they have less pull there. Maybe?



blsnelling said:


> Stihl usually polices any site that shares their publications. Too bad the won't let the public have it like Husky does.


----------



## tbohn

Well got it running. I can't turn it over without the decompression valve open. Maybe I can install a kick-starter! 
I was getting the carb tuned when it stalled. When tried to start it up, the key sheared on the flywheel. I did not test the compression before the failure. It feels like more than my 038 magnum (175). 
Picture of sheared pin below. I don't think I tightened it enough.


----------



## blsnelling

175 PSI should not be hard to start.


----------



## davhul

Mine had 150. Before I ever started it. 


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## tbohn

blsnelling said:


> 175 PSI should not be hard to start.


I think it is higher the 175 psi. Even at 175 psi and 56mm bore it is about 670 pounds of force. Hopefully I can get a new key tomorrow at the dealer in town.


----------



## Hydro74

tbohn said:


> I think it is higher the 175 psi. Even at 175 psi and 56mm bore it is about 670 pounds of force. Hopefully I can get a new key tomorrow at the dealer in town.


I broke two keys off on mine I ended up putting a washer under the nut as it didn't seem to sit flush on the flywheel Been working good so far fingers crossed make sure you torque it down to the oem specs or slightly better.


----------



## davhul

tbohn said:


> I think it is higher the 175 psi. Even at 175 psi and 56mm bore it is about 670 pounds of force. Hopefully I can get a new key tomorrow at the dealer in town.



Forgot you had 56. Didn't you lower the squish to. They might have a key Depends on how many pro saws they deal with. 


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## davhul

Really the key is there as a reference mostly. If the nut is tight you really don't need the key. Get a key and tighten good and tight with a ratchet and hold the clutch with a 3/4 wrench. Make sure the crank is oil free on the taper 


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## davhul

Does anyone want the torque spec for every screw. 
It's in metric though 


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## Bedford T

I am going to double check mine. I did not put a wrench on the clutch, that seems like a good idea.




davhul said:


> Really the key is there as a reference mostly. If the nut is tight you really don't need the key. Get a key and tighten good and tight with a ratchet and hold the clutch with a 3/4 wrench. Make sure the crank is oil free on the taper
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Bedford T

That would be nice.



davhul said:


> Does anyone want the torque spec for every screw.
> It's in metric though
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## trboxman

davhul said:


> Does anyone want the torque spec for every screw.
> It's in metric though
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




yes please, I speak Newton Meter....


----------



## jackjcc

I have an Italian lift at work that torque specs are in kilogram meters...it's annoying having to always look that up. 


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## MustangMike

I would not put a wrench on the clutch to tighten the flywheel, or vice versa, that is a recipe for stripping things. Either block the piston with a rope through the spark plug hole, or if the cylinder is not on, block the crank with a piece of hardwood between it and the case.


----------



## davhul

If you snugging it up and not going crazy tight nothing should strip. Rope works to just don't let it go into the port 


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## davhul

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## MustangMike

Actually had a problem with stripping the flywheel nut when trying to disassemble a saw, so, as a matter of practice, I just always block either the piston or the crank, it is just safer!

And a reminder for those who don't know, the clutch on Stihls is usually reverse thread.


----------



## barton174

So unless there's something I missed, aside from a handfull of (cheap) parts that aren't included, and a few parts (oil pump drive and recoil assy?) that you should use OEM for, these kits are good to go?? Huztl.net is where you're getting them, right? And close to $100 in shipping?

Thanks,
Mike


----------



## Bedford T

Yes, where did you get oil pump?
Order a few extra screws and the missing parts like summer shutter and foil and rubber grommets for cowl



barton174 said:


> So unless there's something I missed, aside from a handfull of (cheap) parts that aren't included, and a few parts (oil pump drive and recoil assy?) that you should use OEM for, these kits are good to go?? Huztl.net is where you're getting them, right? And close to $100 in shipping?
> 
> Thanks,
> Mike


----------



## barton174

Not oil pump, oil pump drive. On the videos that Weimdog did (HTSS) about building these, he said that the oil pump drive bevel gears on these wore quickly, and he'd use OEM parts for the oil pump drive.

Mike


----------



## tbohn

I think there has been a consensus that the gears on the chain adjuster were not good. My oiler seams fine on my kit.


----------



## davhul

My chain adjuster is fine so far. I did put some moly lube on it I had nearby. And ran it back and forth several times. Time will tell when I slap a 36" bar on this weekend and compare with my 064 


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## trboxman

davhul said:


> My chain adjuster is fine so far. I did put some moly lube on it I had nearby. And ran it back and forth several times. Time will tell when I slap a 36" bar on this weekend and compare with my 064
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I used SuperLube clear on mine and ran it back and forth a few times before putting a bar on it. It worked fine with a 24" bar on it, after I ran it in initial tuning there was more than enough bar oil getting to the chain adjuster to make lubrication a non-issue.


----------



## Bedford T

When he did those videos he ordered the parts separately ours came in a box over 6 months later so it's possible they improved. Like the starter, he said it was loud and did not catch smoothly. Mine works perfect, davhul replaced his rope. The insert could be rough the rope pulls though, we need to consider many things. I looked at the oiler closely and I thought the gear looked very good. But that might not have been the case then.

One thing I gave them the benefit of the doubt on the fuel caps and changed the sealing rings out. They still Leak badly so I was wrong thinking the extra sealing rings might be an upgrade

So again you gotta think it through


----------



## davhul

I tried different seals on the caps and still leaked also. Oem caps don't leak. My case crack fix is still holding although they have contacted me several times and sound concerned over it. We'll see how it goes. 


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## trboxman

I'm going to replace the flat seals with O-rings and see if I get a different result...


----------



## Bedford T

I ordered the fuel cap he said he would be here by Friday and picked up my foil and the m5x72x35 screws used when pulling the cases together.


----------



## trboxman

Bedford T said:


> I ordered the fuel cap he said he would be here by Friday and picked up my foil and the m5x72x35 screws used when pulling the cases together.



Didn't your flywheel side puller set come with long screws? Or are you not going to use the splitter/puller sets?


----------



## trboxman

I also had an issue with the fuel line from the tank to the carb leaking at the barb on the carb, I put a small spring clamp on it and fixed that problem right up....


----------



## davhul

It does. I didnt use it last time but might on next







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## davhul

trboxman said:


> I also had an issue with the fuel line from the tank to the carb leaking at the barb on the carb, I put a small spring clamp on it and fixed that problem right up....



I used a a oem scrap I had for that little piece 


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## jackjcc

davhul said:


> It does. I didnt use it last time but might on next
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Is this an OEM kit or something you found elsewhere?


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## davhul

That's part of the oem kit. 


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## Bedford T

Flywheel side did not get ordered until today. I did not know the screws came with it. I blew 7$ then. I was at the dealer today and asked about the seal puller. I did not order it, yet. Flywheel side with be here next week. I hate I got those screws duplicated.



trboxman said:


> Didn't your flywheel side puller set come with long screws? Or are you not going to use the splitter/puller sets?


----------



## MustangMike

You can make a seal puller easy enough. Just take a small screw driver and file a little notch in it about 1/4" from the end. Works just fine.


----------



## trboxman

Have you seen how nice those Stihl seal pullers are though? It's like German tool ****. It reminds me of my old Staedler mechanical drawing set...


----------



## Bedford T

I gotta have it. I watched a blsnelling video where that puller just pulls that seal straight up easy as pie, kinda like art...maybe closer to ****. 

When you do it, do it right. Things is my tool budget is directly tied to a cash budget that I stick to. It might take me a week or two longer than other people but I get it every time. I am saving to buy 1000 kits. Slow and steady wins the race with a tool or two in-between.


----------



## Bedford T

**** we think alike


----------



## Bedford T

So I saw the posted photo of the flywheel side tool and the screws in the bag, is this the same set of screws called out in this pdf, looking at the page I did not connect the dots if it was. It gives the part number for them and does not mention this is part of the kit. Bugs me.


----------



## BTarb24

My clutch drum arrived from huztl yesterday so i finally got to finish up my build. I had a heck of a time initially getting it to fire up. It kept getting flooded out. Though, after wiping tweaking the carb settings it ran fine. I used all huztl parts (aside from the woodruff key that was missing).

My overall build time was somewhere around 6-8 hours. Nothing was terribly difficult or frustrating to do. The build went rather slow since it was my first small engine project and I had to do lots of googling to see where pieces went. I have a couple bars/chains in the mail so i still have to wait a day or two before taking it to any wood.

The only problem I'm currently having is that the decompression valve keeps coming apart. The little black cap ends up popping off. I've taken the top cover off and reattached it by holding the stem with small pliers a couple times now. I'm about to try hitting it with some epoxy .. if that doesn't work then I suppose I buy a new one. I attached a picture to show what i mean.

And here's the obligatory video of it running.


----------



## BTarb24

And here are the pieces I had left over. The extra rubber stuff makes sense... but i'm not sure where the screw was supposed to go. Likewise.. what's the deal with those white plastic pieces they have pressed into the clutch cover?


----------



## Bedford T

One of those bumpers- plastic pieces goes under the bar plate at the bar studs and chain guides of sorts. You wound up with two extra and short one sealing ring, that's what that circle is, mine had both, caps still Leak. It was fun right?

Do all your av rubber piece's have a screw in them?




BTarb24 said:


> And here are the pieces I had left over. The extra rubber stuff makes sense... but i'm not sure where the screw was supposed to go. Likewise.. what's the deal with those white plastic pieces they have pressed into the clutch cover?
> View attachment 529771


----------



## Bedford T

On this muffler is there any modifications that would make sense?


----------



## brandonstc6

The long black rubber piece in the top right corner goes on the clutch cover. It acts a guard to prevent damage from thrown chains 


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## brandonstc6

I have a used shutter if anyone needs one. It is on a flat top cover but I assume it's the same


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## trboxman

Bedford T said:


> So I saw the posted photo of the flywheel side tool and the screws in the bag, is this the same set of screws called out in this pdf, looking at the page I did not connect the dots if it was. It gives the part number for them and does not mention this is part of the kit. Bugs me.


Yes it's the same referenced. 

Sent from a magic box in my pocket.


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## davhul

Good going sounds good. What size bars you order? I ran a 25" In that one vid. I don't want to see ya burn your new saw up but Don't run it Long with the cover off the top. It directs the airflow around the fins and it could overheat in a few minutes. really need lock tight the blue On the bar studs. One it seals it from the oil tank. 2 they could back out while loosing the nut. The special tool on the studs really make it easy. 


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## trboxman

BTarb24 said:


> My clutch drum arrived from huztl yesterday so i finally got to finish up my build. I had a heck of a time initially getting it to fire up. It kept getting flooded out. Though, after wiping tweaking the carb settings it ran fine. I used all huztl parts (aside from the woodruff key that was missing).
> 
> My overall build time was somewhere around 6-8 hours. Nothing was terribly difficult or frustrating to do. The build went rather slow since it was my first small engine project and I had to do lots of googling to see where pieces went. I have a couple bars/chains in the mail so i still have to wait a day or two before taking it to any wood.
> 
> The only problem I'm currently having is that the decompression valve keeps coming apart. The little black cap ends up popping off. I've taken the top cover off and reattached it by holding the stem with small pliers a couple times now. I'm about to try hitting it with some epoxy .. if that doesn't work then I suppose I buy a new one. I attached a picture to show what i mean.
> 
> And here's the obligatory video of it running.



Epoxy. Mine started doing the same thing. 

Sent from a magic box in my pocket.


----------



## davhul

I'm puting the delete plug in mine. When I put soapy water on it and leak down test the top end mine leaked. Compression loss 


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## trboxman

Interesting. I have a delete in mine right now from testing. 

I was thinking of leaving it in because I can't tell the difference with or without. 

Sent from a magic box in my pocket.


----------



## davhul

I never use it. It makes it harder to start from a cold start anyway.


----------



## MustangMike

I never use the decomp on a cold start, as it will make it harder. On some of my saws, it makes a warm start a lot easier, but not all of them. I think it depends on the compression and engine timing.


----------



## BTarb24

Wow, i can't imagine a delete plug. Mines extremely hard to hold to the ground during a pull without the decompression. If it leaks you could always just use some teflon tape or liquid gasket.

I bought 36" and 24" woodland pro bars. Then a crosscut and a rip chain for each. We're about to take down eight 100' pines threatening the house we recently bought. The base of the larger ones are about 5' diameter. Then I have a handful of 100' oaks and cherries that are either already down or have died and need to come down. The rip chains are for slabbing those ones up. Looks like the tracking slip from baileys predicts them to come in on the 10th.

I'm pretty sure all the rubbers were dupes, but could be wrong. That screw bugs me though. It's not an AV screw (those were course screws for plastic). This one is a small machine screw that's similar to the 4 that hold down the white plastic shroud around the clutch drum. I haven't load tested the brake nor have I given it any bar oil yet, so I may inadvertently find it's place afterall. Btw, the brake spring only took a couple tries with a regular screwdriver. Grinding a hollow would certainly make it easier, but don't go messing up a driver you care about just for it. Try without first (and with safety glasses).

Forgetting to double-nut the stud bolt was a bonehead move. After that was squared away I used some red locktite. Didn't see much reason those would ever need to come back out. I didn't add locktite anywhere else since the screws already had some blue on them.


----------



## davhul

My valve was leaking from the valve it self not the threads. I usually do a drop start with the brake on. Looks like you have plenty of trees to test the saw on.


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## trboxman

BTarb24 said:


> Wow, i can't imagine a delete plug. Mines extremely hard to hold to the ground during a pull without the decompression.



I use the drop start method, handle bar in left hand starter handle in right hand, drop and pull at the same time and make damned sure that you've got enough grip to keep control of the saw. The weight of the saw starts the saw. 

I can see where a decomp valve helps if you're trying to start from the ground or pinching it between your legs (shudder)...I can't imagine trying to pin one of these bloody things to the ground to start, or to squeeze one between your thighs like an MMA fighter putting someone in an arm bar.


----------



## tbohn

BTarb24 said:


> Wow, i can't imagine a delete plug. Mines extremely hard to hold to the ground during a pull without the decompression. If it leaks you could always just use some teflon tape or liquid gasket.
> 
> I bought 36" and 24" woodland pro bars. Then a crosscut and a rip chain for each. We're about to take down eight 100' pines threatening the house we recently bought. The base of the larger ones are about 5' diameter. Then I have a handful of 100' oaks and cherries that are either already down or have died and need to come down. The rip chains are for slabbing those ones up. Looks like the tracking slip from baileys predicts them to come in on the 10th.
> 
> I'm pretty sure all the rubbers were dupes, but could be wrong. That screw bugs me though. It's not an AV screw (those were course screws for plastic). This one is a small machine screw that's similar to the 4 that hold down the white plastic shroud around the clutch drum. I haven't load tested the brake nor have I given it any bar oil yet, so I may inadvertently find it's place afterall. Btw, the brake spring only took a couple tries with a regular screwdriver. Grinding a hollow would certainly make it easier, but don't go messing up a driver you care about just for it. Try without first (and with safety glasses).
> 
> Forgetting to double-nut the stud bolt was a bonehead move. After that was squared away I used some red locktite. Didn't see much reason those would ever need to come back out. I didn't add locktite anywhere else since the screws already had some blue on them.


The 30 seconds that I had mine running before I sheared the flywheel woodruff key made it absolutely clear that a decompression valve is required! It took many pulls to get it to fire the first time. During the pull, the decomp valve would seat about half way through the pull. It felt like the recoil was at the end of the rope. There is no turning over my 56mm with 0.023 squish without decomp. (2-3 days for a new key from my local dealer. I started on my 372 kit that purchased from Huztl at the same time as the ms660. I didn't get very far...all the bolts/fasteners were missing from the kit.)

In regards to the left over bolt. Did you install the upper rear AV on the clutch side? It is a machine thread. I completely assembled mine before I figured out what the small round AV was for. I had to disassemble the handle from the body and carb boot to get this sucker between the fuel tank and the flywheel side case.


----------



## Bedford T

i had to remove the cover and air filter to widen the spark plug hole and i saw the fuel hose is wet, not at the carb barb but at the fuel tank where it connects to the barb you clamped. do I need a clamp on that end or is it a leaky o ring entering the tank? and what kina clamp is that small?



trboxman said:


> I also had an issue with the fuel line from the tank to the carb leaking at the barb on the carb, I put a small spring clamp on it and fixed that problem right up....


----------



## Bedford T

thats the one i meant. 5mx12


tbohn said:


> In regards to the left over bolt. Did you install the upper rear AV on the clutch side? It is a machine thread.


----------



## Bedford T

What's the best way to store these tool set.? Do they make individual cases for each side for these mounting tools? I saw where davhul was using a clear bag, clears good. Any other ideas. As I collect and invest in them individual cases appeal me because they are stinking expensive. I have tool boxes.


----------



## davhul

They don't make a case that I'm aware of. But they do make a tool box. Not cheap either but nothing they have is. 




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----------



## trboxman

Bedford T said:


> i had to remove the cover and air filter to widen the spark plug hole and i saw the fuel hose is wet, not at the carb barb but at the fuel tank where it connects to the barb you clamped. do I need a clamp on that end or is it a leaky o ring entering the tank? and what kina clamp is that small?



https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001BHK4NY


----------



## trboxman

Bedford T said:


> What's the best way to store these tool set.? Do they make individual cases for each side for these mounting tools? I saw where davhul was using a clear bag, clears good. Any other ideas. As I collect and invest in them individual cases appeal me because they are stinking expensive. I have tool boxes.



I'm keeping mine in a ziplock bag on my workbench for now. I have 0 free space in any of my tool drawers...oh darn, time to buy a new tool chest...


----------



## BTarb24

tbohn said:


> In regards to the left over bolt. Did you install the upper rear AV on the clutch side? It is a machine thread. I completely assembled mine before I figured out what the small round AV was for. I had to disassemble the handle from the body and carb boot to get this sucker between the fuel tank and the flywheel side case.



Ah.. yea, there was an av grommet in the left over bag too. Looking at the breakapart I can see roughly where it was supposed to go. I got the odd shaped one near the top, but missed the round one near the bottom. This thing seems to vibrate a ton compared to my 450. I think I read that it will lessen as the saw breaks in a bit - i sure hope so.

Anyone else missing that plastic insert that goes into the brake handle connection? I didn't use the rubber piece there either.


----------



## Bedford T

And the grommets holding down the top cover.

There are 3 different firms of the av system, they sent the firm ones that has to account for a large portion of vibration


----------



## BTarb24

Bedford T said:


> There are 3 different firms of the av system, they sent the firm ones that has to account for a large portion of vibration



Using softer ones would seemingly lessen vibration further.. but is there any downside?


----------



## davhul

The grommets you talk about on the top cover are brass inserts that keep the screw from pulling through the plastic. 


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----------



## davhul

Don't go by this part # there's 4 sizes. But there is different buffers. 



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## Bedford T

Davhul tool chest there is missing a place for the puller. I guess a zip lock is in my future too until I find something specfic



trboxman said:


> I'm keeping mine in a ziplock bag on my workbench for now. I have 0 free space in any of my tool drawers...oh darn, time to buy a new tool chest...


----------



## davhul

The kits just went up on their site $186 without shipping 


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## Bedford T

Glad you are willing to keep me straight




davhul said:


> Don't go by this part # there's 4 sizes. But there is different buffers. View attachment 529879
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Bedford T

Ouch, Knew it was coming. Bet the ones that did that not ship are are risk

I read it as +186. Not end of world. They came off vacation to raise price.

Wait a minute, to be fair they did not offer the foil before they promised to fix that, if they made other improvements, it's worth it. I paid 10$ just for foil



davhul said:


> The kits just went up on their site $186 without shipping. Hope not.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## davhul

Bedford T said:


> Davhul tool chest there is missing a place for the puller. I guess a zip lock is in my future too until I find something specfic



I didn't take a pic of all the drawers 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## tbohn

davhul said:


> The kits just went up on their site $186 without shipping
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That sucks! I had 6 kits in the cart ready to order. I wanted to wait to see how they handled my emails on missing parts and corroded 372 kit before I pulled the trigger. I figured since they emailed that they weren't going deal with my issues because they were on holiday, they would not raise the price because they were on holiday. It looks like the 360 and 361 prices did not change (yet).


----------



## Bedford T

i shoulda guessed that, 



davhul said:


> I didn't take a pic of all the drawers
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Bedford T

thats what i am saying, on this model they had to add stuff, i believe they might still add the shutter too, still hopeful

and they would want to cover those costs if they corrected it.



tbohn said:


> That sucks! I had 6 kits in the cart ready to order. I wanted to wait to see how they handled my emails on missing parts and corroded 372 kit before I pulled the trigger. I figured since they emailed that they weren't going deal with my issues because they were on holiday, they would not raise the price because they were on holiday. It looks like the 360 and 361 prices did not change (yet).


----------



## davhul

Bedford T said:


> Glad you are willing to keep me straight



Your right. there is hard, normal and soft. But that was on the 066. But huztl likes to mix parts 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## trboxman

tbohn said:


> That sucks! I had 6 kits in the cart ready to order. I wanted to wait to see how they handled my emails on missing parts and corroded 372 kit before I pulled the trigger. I figured since they emailed that they weren't going deal with my issues because they were on holiday, they would not raise the price because they were on holiday. It looks like the 360 and 361 prices did not change (yet).



That sucks, glad I ordered 6 a few weeks ago...but they still haven't shipped them...


----------



## davhul

I wonder if there's parts on back order. If they would send customers emails if there's a delay that would go along way. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## trboxman

I got caught by an uncommunicated warehouse move and an uncommunicated holiday, each added an additional week. I can't wait to hear the next excuse for delay. That per unit price without shipping is more than I paid per unit with shipping.


----------



## trboxman

Bedford T said:


> i had to remove the cover and air filter to widen the spark plug hole...



You what?? Why?


----------



## davhul

I think he said the hole in the cover was to small To get the plug out with the cover on. 


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----------



## tbohn

The hole in the cover is not lined up with the spark plug on mine. I will have to make the hole bigger too so I can get a plug wrench on it.


----------



## davhul

I got lucky mine was fine 


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----------



## Bedford T

My hole is off centered, or was. The Dremel tool made quick work of it. I can remove plug now with cover on. It was not off much, but enough.



trboxman said:


> You what?? Why?


----------



## BTarb24

I had to remove the spark plug a few times to more quickly clear the flooding I had. I think I only had to remove the filter cover and the air baffle in order to pull the plug. I just used a standard deepwell socket though -- not a true "spark plug socket" that's longer and has the rubber insert.

One plastic mod I could possibly see being useful may be to cut the topcover a bit so that there's no longer a spark plug hole.. but rather a spark plug slot. That way you can pull the top cover without having to undo the boot. certainly a minor convenience though.


----------



## Bedford T

I don't want to put a whammy on it but I bet they never ship unless its at new price, they really jacked up the wholesale/multiple price. 6 was about 600$ before.

That is just wrong

They could be reading the posts and saying you know we got all this multiple orders these Americans are making our price to low.





trboxman said:


> I got caught by an uncommunicated warehouse move and an uncommunicated holiday, each added an additional week. I can't wait to hear the next excuse for delay. That per unit price without shipping is more than I paid per unit with shipping.


----------



## trboxman

Nah, I bet they will.


----------



## trboxman

davhul said:


> I got lucky mine was fine
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Mine is fine as well, I use a scrench with no issue at all.


----------



## davhul

I just use a saw wrench


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----------



## Bedford T

I certainly hope they do but I am not wrong about that huge multiple s price increase. Ouch makes buying more less fun


----------



## barton174

That makes it close to $300 shipped. They went up to $158 on the 372, as well. I'll buy a blown up 390xp for a couple hundred and rebuild, for that money. ****, I just bought a 2015 2166 in really clean shape, from a pawn shop, for $200. I had an (unreplied to) email into them to see if the $93 shipping was correct, already, which made it $200 for the 372 kit. This price raise makes it totally not worth it for me, personally. 





Mike


----------



## tbohn

I won't be ordering 6 more. They're $50 more each now.


----------



## trboxman

I probably won't either. Not unless they provide a price break for multiples. Sometimes you have to play with pricing to find your target market and it's not always the lowest price that stimulates the most buying. If I were building these for sale I'd have to play with pricing as well to find the sweet spot for sales, too cheap "it can't be any good", too expensive "I'm not paying that".


----------



## tbohn

trboxman said:


> I probably won't either. Not unless they provide a price break for multiples. Sometimes you have to play with pricing to find your target market and it's not always the lowest price that stimulates the most buying. If I were building these for sale I'd have to play with pricing as well to find the sweet spot for sales, too cheap "it can't be any good", too expensive "I'm not paying that".


They offer a $20 price break each for 6 or more. Not enough for me.


----------



## trboxman

There's a price break on shipping as well.


----------



## Ozhoo

They're just following smart business practices. Demand has gone up so they've raised their prices to test the market. If demand drops, then look for them to drop their prices. Prebuilt 066's are all over aliexpress at 400 a pop so I wouldn't expect any more price increases.


----------



## barton174

Ozhoo said:


> They're just following smart business practices. Demand has gone up so they've raised their prices to test the market. If demand drops, then look for them to drop their prices. Prebuilt 066's are all over aliexpress at 400 a pop so I wouldn't expect any more price increases.



Oh, absolutely! It's just more than what I want to gamble with, now. It was borderline, before.

Mike


----------



## tbohn

It's still $50 more per saw for me with shipping if I buy 6. I enjoyed building
a clean, new, saw but I think I will go back to finding dirty broken saws for my addiction.


trboxman said:


> There's a price break on shipping as well.[/QUOTE


----------



## Bedford T

Believe it or not they will not gauge those kit prices on those silver box prices. 

So it was not a target increase because of increased costs of missing parts on one model but increasing the price across the board.

Missing parts poor customer service it will take a while but their sales will erode. These are aftermarket parts where the deal was sweet and people were gonna bite the bullet and sing praise. I think they shot themselves in the foot. Exuberance was the mistake. Not a good enough product, too many inconveniences to sustain it.


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## BTarb24

I dunno, the increased price still seems like a great deal to me. It's a challenge to find a decent used 660/066 for less than $600. $286 for the knockoff doesn't sound bad at all. It really is rather eye-opening to see that they're able to turn a profit when they were only charging $150 for the entire saw.

Personally, i hope all these knockoffs start to lower the price on the authentics. When you look at the parts, there really isn't that much difference between a 50cc stihl and the 100cc ones. The parts are just a bit bigger and some other minor things changed. Certainly not enough to justify an extra $800 added to the market price. With more people buying these knockoffs it may make enough impact in their demand to lower their high end prices.


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## Bedford T

And the gall, inconvenience a bunch of customers and raise the cost while not shipping a number of lower cost units, something stinks here folks


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## Bedford T

There is much more to this than the cost increase. 

Supporting poor customer service by blowing them money kisses does not happen in many situations in our economy



BTarb24 said:


> I dunno, the increased price still seems like a great deal to me. It's a challenge to find a decent used 660/066 for less than $600. $286 for the knockoff doesn't sound bad at all. It really is rather eye-opening to see that they're able to turn a profit when they were only charging $150 for the entire saw.
> 
> Personally, i hope all these knockoffs start to lower the price on the authentics. When you look at the parts, there really isn't that much difference between a 50cc stihl and the 100cc ones. The parts are just a bit bigger and some other minor things changed. Certainly not enough to justify an extra $800 added to the market price. With more people buying these knockoffs it may make enough impact in their demand to lower their high end prices.


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## BTarb24

In fairness, you're not paying for customer service. You're paying for the lowest possible price around. If you wanted quality service and quick turnaround then you'd hand over the remaining $800 and buy it from stihl.


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## trboxman

BTarb24 said:


> I dunno, the increased price still seems like a great deal to me. It's a challenge to find a decent used 660/066 for less than $600. $286 for the knockoff doesn't sound bad at all. It really is rather eye-opening to see that they're able to turn a profit when they were only charging $150 for the entire saw.
> 
> Personally, i hope all these knockoffs start to lower the price on the authentics. When you look at the parts, there really isn't that much difference between a 50cc stihl and the 100cc ones. The parts are just a bit bigger and some other minor things changed. Certainly not enough to justify an extra $800 added to the market price. With more people buying these knockoffs it may make enough impact in their demand to lower their high end prices.



I don't know the exact numbers but I'd be shocked if there was actually much more that $60.00 mfg cost difference between Stihl's cheapest pro saw and their most expensive pro saw.


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## tbohn

tbohn said:


> That sucks! I had 6 kits in the cart ready to order. I wanted to wait to see how they handled my emails on missing parts and corroded 372 kit before I pulled the trigger. I figured since they emailed that they weren't going deal with my issues because they were on holiday, they would not raise the price because they were on holiday. It looks like the 360 and 361 prices did not change (yet).


Here are photos of the corroded 372 case if anyone is interested. I hope they make it good.


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## davhul

Really this kit needed a good piston and cylinder. I've held back so everyone can build it their way. Ive run about 5 gallons thru it. Most running it at 
12,800 rpms and some at 13,300. The cylinder is not all that round or square. There's uneven wear all the way around. It not scoring just uneven wear. So I spent $100 extra for a NWP cylinder kit and caber rings. It came in today and it looks way better. And Compression was lower than I liked at 140. Running 32:1. To make this saw good and reliable saw for years like a pro "aluminum" saw should. 
It's not magnesium That's a big price. It has to have a good P&C the heart of the saw. The bottom end looks good so if their going to up the price they have to do a little better. It was cheap enough to put $100 extra on it. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## davhul

I can tell you that a stihl piston will get rejected and recycled if it's out of round by 4 microns. And the machine that test it sits on a huge slab of granite to keep the harmonics down. And that's even on the $129 weedeater 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## trboxman

I know you have a background in automotive performance, did you use a cylinder bore gauge to measure roundness and taper?


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## davhul

I didn't as I just tore it down but I have thought about checking it at the bottom, middle, and top for any differences. And might do the piston too. Then I thought how round can a piston, cylinder, rings, pin, and bearing be for $30. I did check piston to wall clearance at .007
NWP .003 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## davhul

It's a decent quality saw. The price might have been so low to get people out there and test them. Does that sound off? They could have chalked the losses as marketing? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## trboxman

davhul said:


> I didn't as I just tore it down but I have thought about checking it at the bottom, middle, and top for any differences. And might do the piston too. Then I thought how round can a piston, cylinder, rings, pin, and bearing be for $30.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Yep, price to produce certainly plays a huge part in precision. I think I noted early on that the tooling used to machine the sparkplug hole looked to be either duller than it should or the feed rate was too high because it was right at the edge of galling the cylinder. No doubt there are corners being cut. I might take a piston as a throwaway and chuck it up in the lathe to measure run out, but it won't be this weekend...


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## trboxman

davhul said:


> It's a decent quality saw. The price might have been so low to get people out there and test them. Does that sound off? They could have chalked the losses as marketing?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Loss leaders are a common business tactic. Heck Honda has used that strategy several times to buy market share in the US market, I know others have as well.


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## Bedford T

i found these additional parts missing, the part numbers are current in the southeast at least, not sure how that works, same on costs
oring on chain adjuster 7x1.5 9646 945 0490 (1$)
3 bushings on cowl 0000 963 0808 (2$ea)
1 bushing 1124 792 5505 (2$)
spline screw m5x12 9022 341 0960 (1$) on my the still missing spikes
nut m5 9214 320 0700 (1$)


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## davhul

I might have got your o-ring I had 2. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## trboxman

I had 2 of them as well.


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## MustangMike

I guess I dithered too long, was debating ordering one or 6! Unless, of course, they improved something and needed to charge more for it?

So the case is aluminum, not magnesium??? 

If the price is low enough, putting another P&C on it could make sense, as long as the bottom end is strong enough. I would only want a saw this size if I could make it run strong, otherwise, I don't need a saw this size!


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## trboxman

I honestly don't know what the case is made of, there is a <Mg> cast into the case halves which is the periodic table symbol for Magnesium. It could just be a case of cloning details they don't understand.


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## BTarb24

I also had two... but i think they were in separate packages. One in a specific package for the oiler and another in the "complete rubber set" package.

I have my doubts that the top cover bushings are really needed. I'm just going to run without them. IMO, the spike nuts are the only key components that are consistently missing from the kits. Thankfully, those are trivial to replace at a hardware store.


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## BTarb24

someone could try to burn some of the shavings from the clutch cover. mg should catch fire whereas aluminum shouldn't really react at all to a normal flame. ... just don't throw any water on the burning shavings.


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## davhul

MustangMike said:


> I guess I dithered too long, was debating ordering one or 6! Unless, of course, they improved something and needed to charge more for it?
> 
> So the case is aluminum, not magnesium???
> 
> If the price is low enough, putting another P&C on it could make sense, as long as the bottom end is strong enough. I would only want a saw this size if I could make it run strong, otherwise, I don't need a saw this size!



Well I can tell you my ported 460 walks on it. And I'm no pro porter. 


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## davhul

trboxman said:


> I honestly don't know what the case is made of, there is a <Mg> cast into the case halves which is the periodic table symbol for Magnesium. It could just be a case of cloning details they don't understand.



I have no way of testing so it's speculation. But magnesium also doesn't corrode the same 


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## BTarb24

I just did the burn test. It's definitely magnesium. I'll post the video once google/youtube finish processing it.


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## brandonstc6

I ordered a huztl 372 cylinder cover and it says EM original on it. So it is likely that they didn't know or didn't care to take off the Mg marking 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## trboxman

BTarb24 said:


> someone could try to burn some of the shavings from the clutch cover. mg should catch fire whereas aluminum shouldn't really react at all to a normal flame. ... just don't throw any water on the burning shavings.



I have another clutch cover and thought about doing this very thing but I'm not sure if it would be pure magnesium or an alloy that might not have the same propensity to burn. In any case I think I'll give it a try just to see WTF happens, it's not like I really have anything to lose...

Edit: too slow, BTarb24 the mad scientist beat me to it


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## davhul

BTarb24 said:


> I just did the burn test. It's definitely magnesium. I'll post the video once google/youtube finish processing it.



Glad someone knows how to test it 


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## BTarb24

Magnesium is what they use for most of those little campfire starter kits. They give you a magnesium rod and a flint. You shave off some of the magnesium rod to get some loose shavings.. then hit it with the flint and it burns extremely hot.


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## davhul

Then throw water on it and run. 


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## BTarb24

Here's the video of the quick burn test.


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## davhul

What if you try this. 
Alum. shavings+iodine+water


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## MustangMike

I won't tell ya what I put in a smoke bomb one time when I was a teenager, cause I don't want anyone else doing it, but it made a bright flame 15' high, hissed like a jet engine, and burned a hole in the road! We didn't do it any more, I'll tell you that!


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## barton174

trboxman said:


> I honestly don't know what the case is made of, there is a <Mg> cast into the case halves which is the periodic table symbol for Magnesium. It could just be a case of cloning details they don't understand.



Like when the Russians scored a complete B29 that fell into their lap (or rather, had mechanical trouble and landed on their field), and copied it down to the repair sections on the wings, from previous flack damage.

http://www.airspacemag.com/military-aviation/made-in-the-ussr-38442437/?no-ist

Mike


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## tbohn

tbohn said:


> Well got it running. I can't turn it over without the decompression valve open. Maybe I can install a kick-starter!
> I was getting the carb tuned when it stalled. When tried to start it up, the key sheared on the flywheel. I did not test the compression before the failure. It feels like more than my 038 magnum (175).
> Picture of sheared pin below. I don't think I tightened it enough.


I had to drive 30 miles to get a key but I got it running. It runs well and idles nice. It does jump around quite a bit when it is idling on the driveway. I tried to get a compression test but I could barely turn it over without the decomp. I could only get it up to 125 psi. I know it's higher than that I just can't pull it over.
I'm heading north for the weekend to clean up some blow down. I will have a chance to compare it with some other saws. I have to finish installing a new wood stove before deer season. I do some bird hunting too.


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## Bedford T

I can attest to the hard to get a compression test, it is really really hard to pull. But does start. It's must have compression. You can damage the starter yanking on it without the decompression active.


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## BTarb24

tbohn said:


> I had to drive 30 miles to get a key but I got it running. It runs well and idles nice. It does jump around quite a bit when it is idling on the driveway. I tried to get a compression test but I could barely turn it over without the decomp. I could only get it up to 125 psi. I know it's higher than that I just can't pull it over.



Awesome. Seems like we're all having pretty good luck with them running once we round up all the necessary parts. It was surprising, but I couldn't find an online source for the key that didn't have slow shipping from china, or have outrageous cost from the states. One of those rare cases where buying from a dealer was the cheapest and fastest solution.

I had contemplated buying pressure and vac testers when I was having trouble getting it to fire up. Though, now that it runs i'll likely hold off until someday when it feels like there's more immediate need for them. They're one of those tools where it's hard to trust a low price/quality option, so I feel the need to buy the top tier brands. Which would normally be fine, but in this case the tools just don't have enough general utility beyond small engine repair to justify the expense.

Does your decomp pop after every pull? I've had a few times where it would pop mid-pull and the sudden jolt made me practically rip the saw out of my other hand. Hard to believe the plastic starter fins don't just shatter into bits when that happens.


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## 67L36Driver

BTarb24 said:


> Awesome. Seems like we're all having pretty good luck with them running once we round up all the necessary parts. It was surprising, but I couldn't find an online source for the key that didn't have slow shipping from china, or have outrageous cost from the states. One of those rare cases where buying from a dealer was the cheapest and fastest solution.
> 
> I had contemplated buying pressure and vac testers when I was having trouble getting it to fire up. Though, now that it runs i'll likely hold off until someday when it feels like there's more immediate need for them. They're one of those tools where it's hard to trust a low price/quality option, so I feel the need to buy the top tier brands. Which would normally be fine, but in this case the tools just don't have enough general utility beyond small engine repair to justify the expense.
> 
> Does your decomp pop after every pull? I've had a few times where it would pop mid-pull and the sudden jolt made me practically rip the saw out of my other hand. Hard to believe the plastic starter fins don't just shatter into bits when that happens.



The replacement decomp valves are generally for the smaller powerheads. The spring pressure is light and the port tiny.

Try drilling the bleed port 1/64" larger in stages until it behaves better.


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## tbohn

BTarb24 said:


> Awesome. Seems like we're all having pretty good luck with them running once we round up all the necessary parts. It was surprising, but I couldn't find an online source for the key that didn't have slow shipping from china, or have outrageous cost from the states. One of those rare cases where buying from a dealer was the cheapest and fastest solution.
> 
> I had contemplated buying pressure and vac testers when I was having trouble getting it to fire up. Though, now that it runs i'll likely hold off until someday when it feels like there's more immediate need for them. They're one of those tools where it's hard to trust a low price/quality option, so I feel the need to buy the top tier brands. Which would normally be fine, but in this case the tools just don't have enough general utility beyond small engine repair to justify the expense.
> 
> Does your decomp pop after every pull? I've had a few times where it would pop mid-pull and the sudden jolt made me practically rip the saw out of my other hand. Hard to believe the plastic starter fins don't just shatter into bits when that happens.


I can only pull about half way or about two cycles before the decomp seats. There's no drop starting mine. Fortunately it starts easily. I like the idea of making the little port bigger. I'll be using it a lot this weekend. I'll give a full report.


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## Bedford T

ok everybody check your emails and on your orders. i got word my missing stuff shipped. so maybe those saws will also go out, too. the email was sent during the night friday


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## trboxman

No joy. 

Sent from a magic box in my pocket.


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## davhul

My kit hasn't shipped it's Been since the 24th. They want answer me back on the shipping but will on the cracked case. I'll give til Monday before opening a PayPal dispute. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Hydro74

Is anyone else having problems with there checkout? The site keeps freezing up when it goes to the pay pal page. I've contacted pay pal and they are suggesting huztl is having issues with there website. The lady at pay pal said they could see my several attempts at trying to pay at the checkout. And of course I've tried emailing huztl about the issue with no reply!


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## davhul

Its night there now. I usually get a response at 3am eastern 


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## pafire

I'm looking for a winter project, not that I need another chain saw, however with the Hutzl price increase is the 660 still a worth while project to pursue for the weekend firewood cutter.


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## Bedford T

Did not mean to get anyone's hopes to high. I figured if they shipped me they would be more than one email sent out. So I alerted everyone in an effort to help.

They shipped my kit on 9/9/16 so it took about 10 days and a few more to report missing items, so we are at about 2 weeks to ship shorted items. If that timeline helps anyone.


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## Bedford T

For a winter project you could volunteer at the homeless shelter or clean out the garage and attic or you could spend money on something you don't need but secretly want.

My money is on the latter




pafire said:


> I'm looking for a winter project, not that I need another chain saw, however with the Hutzl price increase is the 660 still a worth while project to pursue for the weekend firewood cutter.


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## Bedford T

That's likely right after their afternoon nap. Our 3am is around 3pm there.




davhul said:


> Its night there now. I usually get a response at 3am eastern
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MustangMike

Well, I think I may have found a MS660 "in a box" with a scored cylinder. If I can make a deal on a real MS660, I will go that route and not worry about missing parts and getting reply's from China, and the price increase! A new piston is reasonable, and hopefully, the cylinder can be saved.


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## 67L36Driver

So, should I hold off on ordering a MS360 kit?

Correct, that is three six zero.

No real 'need' for a 660. The 360 is smack in the middle of the firewood range.


----------



## Bedford T

Why would you hold off? If you want it man order it. They not going steal your money, or they did not mine. 

There are some issues, but it's possible they are ironed out. Worse that can happen is they delay shipping it. And that could be over. Place your order and get in line. It sure won't ship unless you order it.

I am very happy with my kit, just the poo that caused unrest. Having the kit in your hands makes you happy


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## MustangMike

The reason I want a 660 is I have all the other sizes covered, a ported 026, ported 036 in process, 3-044/440s, 3-046/460s, and I do some milling and every now & then run a 36" bar. The milling and long bar would be better on a 90+cc saw.


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## trboxman

Even with a higher price I think it's still a good deal. 

Sent from a magic box in my pocket.


----------



## Hydro74

Bb


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## Hydro74

I'm ordering a few more as soon as they get there checkout issue sorted out I've got them ready and waiting in my cart!


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## MustangMike

trboxman said:


> Even with a higher price I think it's still a good deal.
> 
> Sent from a magic box in my pocket.



Unless you come across a good deal on OEM!


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## tbohn

I did a little cutting with the huztl 660 this evening. It goes through pine like butter! It's idling a little high and the idle adjustment doesn't always fix it. I'm concerned about an air leak but the plug is dark brown when I check it. Also my decomp plastic black piece is in the woods somewhere.


----------



## weimedog

tbohn said:


> I did a little cutting with the huztl 660 this evening. It goes through pine like butter! It's idling a little high and the idle adjustment doesn't always fix it. I'm concerned about an air leak but the plug is dark brown when I check it. Also my decomp plastic black piece is in the woods somewhere.



Idle or low speed screw not doing anything? I'm assuming the carb seats nice to the rubber intake boot and the little metal "ring" is seated well too. I had some of those carbs simply not work well on idle, someone else here mentioned that the throttle plate on his was a bit off....me? I swapped to walbro's....problem gone. I doubt an air leak is your issue. Also swapped to an OEM decomp along with chain adjuster and intake boot & impulse line. An Oregon clutch drum as well as now I'm beginning to "lean" on that saw & rely on it more so it matters. Cleaned things up a bit..worth an eBay excursion to detail out those saws. Mine is still running quit well.


----------



## tbohn

weimedog said:


> Idle or low speed screw not doing anything? I'm assuming the carb seats nice to the rubber intake boot and the little metal "ring" is seated well too. I had some of those carbs simply not work well on idle, someone else here mentioned that the throttle plate on his was a bit off....me? I swapped to walbro's....problem gone. I doubt an air leak is your issue. Also swapped to an OEM decomp along with chain adjuster and intake boot & impulse line. An Oregon clutch drum as well. Cleaned things up a bit..worth an eBay excursion to detail out those saws. Mine is still running quit well.


The idle screw. The low adjuster seems to be working fine. I'm going to run it more tomorrow on several trees. I think I will change out the decomp to OEM. My drum is out of round but it seems to be working. 
What was your issue with the intake boot and impulse line?

I appreciate the pioneering work you did on these saws and all the documentation. I mostly likely would not have gone down this path it you had not been the trailblazer. I'm glad I did.


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## trboxman

I know that I wouldn't have gone down this path without his youtube videos. I don't know whether to thank him or curse him...


----------



## BTarb24

tbohn said:


> I did a little cutting with the huztl 660 this evening. It goes through pine like butter! It's idling a little high and the idle adjustment doesn't always fix it. I'm concerned about an air leak but the plug is dark brown when I check it. Also my decomp plastic black piece is in the woods somewhere.



It's seeming like if you plan on using the huztl decomp then you should also plan to epoxy it before you install it. I finally got around to doing mine last night. The only thing that was unexpected was that the epoxy creates an air seal and so the cap wont stay on the stem. I even spun it in circles for a good 30 seconds and it still would just spring back off due to the trapped air pressure. Drilling a tiny hole in the side of the cap solved the problem though.

Be sure that excess epoxy doesn't gather under the cap since that will reduce the travel of the decomp stem.


----------



## weimedog

tbohn said:


> The idle screw. The low adjuster seems to be working fine.
> What was your issue with the intake boot and impulse line?



The material on the OEM versions seems better; that coupled with having to add a safety wire the pulse line on the cylinder end of the 56mm version as it popped off & my experiences with the various AM intake boots for Husqvarna 372's made me decide to play the odds with OEM for those parts.

One thing I had said early on about the MS660 experience seems to be playing out here. That is attitude & goals going into the projects effect perceptions as the project progresses. I went into this seeing this as a puzzle building a saw I didn't particularly need looking to learn about Stihl's and just do what I do working my way through problems until I built something interesting. I expected a challenge. I expected to have to do some research. I also expected issues with AM sources and parts almost wanting to build a video worthy "hand grenade". I wasn't expecting an OEM quality saw at the end of it. It was a lot of fun and I documented it real time on the channel.

What I ended up with was something much easier to build than expected, with just a few AM parts I needed to swap to OEM for a capable saw, and I learned a lot while having a great experience. Had I went into this expecting OEM for a third the price, I may have been disappointed, maybe; but even that depends. The 56mm is easily a match in power to an OEM 660 if not more. The cleaned up 54mm is about a match as well. Certainly 90cc performance for $300 plus my hobby time. How do you beat that! Of course Huztl has provided kits for those with a sense of adventure, built short blocks and even long blocks for those less ambitious. If you are nervous about bottom ends, seals, cranks, and pullers, start with a long block! Add plastic and details. Combine that with mixing and matching parts from OEM and other AM sources and you have a virtual smorgasbord to build 90cc saws. Dollars the priority, stick with Huztl. Performance, blend in more OEM. My 56mm version has working its way into my "work saw" rotation because of its performance. Not price. It's awesome. Plus I built it. And had a lot of fun doing so..

For those "hobbyists" who want to quantify their time, $300 dollars or so in parts plus time....say $350 for labor you still have $650 saw that performs like a $900 dollar saw. To me the metrics go along these lines.....anyone looking for a "main stream" OEM quality of saw and service should.... buy OEM! Anyone who wants to be an OEM by buying assembling and selling finished saws need to go through the investment in terms of building a test program, service plan, and parts sources that accomplish repeatable and serviceable saws......but then you will also have the EPA and other issues like the statistics of warrantee and liability to deal with. THAT path makes absolutely no sense to me as by the time you are done figuring out all that, you will be priced as a typical 90cc OEM saw would cost and who's going to spend that much on a copy for near OEM prices without the OEM level of service and support? OEM's are in the business of providing that "total" environment, your not going to be able to compete with a company like Stihl when all the factors are considered. They are damn good at their business. Those looking for that "total" package need to go where its done right.....Stihl. (Or Husqvarna, Echo, Makita, etc.) That's probably about 99 percent of the saw using population.

Now for a capable & experienced in saw handling hobbyist, $300 of AM and OEM blended parts, be it starting from a blown up OEM saw or going the other direction and tactically blending OEM parts with AM to get a useful and reliable build makes a LOT of sense... this for that small percentage of CAD afflicted & capable individuals. The assembly time is effectively the hobby time without dollars attached. The final build can be tweaked, have parts replaced with either other AM or OEM to increase performance & reliability to the desired level over time...all a part of having a "do it yourself" ownership in the saw, a sense of ownership in the results, and if you are like me, that's way more important than how much "bling" you can buy and brag about. For THAT role in this hobby, these MS660's are hard to beat. So much potential. So many parts options...like the Big Block Chevy of the chainsaw world. Should I ever need another one, I would thank Huztl for putting in the effort to make this available as a saw option. Selling kits vs. having to muddle your way through is worth something all by itself. This thread has also helped those who are "CAD" motivated as you folks have helped itemize and quantify what is required to build one from scratch filling in some of the blanks I certainly left from the video series.

And to those who would compare the results to an "out sourced" ported OEM saw of any size.... what would you end up with if you let those saw builders use the same amount of time/money/resource starting from a Huztl bottom end and plastic? Using a top end and carb of their choice? You would start by having an extra $500 bucks over even a 461 to spend! That's the reality if you really want to compare....its resource to resource expended comparing the end results that matters.

That's my rant. BTW to T-bone (Bed - "T" ?  I know you have a sense of humor! ) and all the others who have put in the effort and information into this thread THANK YOU! Awesome thread. Lots of good solid information here. Really looking forward to how the different builds morph over the years... And PLEASE keep safety as a priority & wear PPE's all the time, especially in the video's where folks might be inspired to follow your path .. I'm going to start UPGRADING my PPE's....that's "bling" worth buying and bragging about! Any suggestions on what's the best Helmet & Chaps you can buy are both requested and welcome! Would be nice if that was also threaded into the resultant video's safety tips and the best PPE's. So..an open question to all participating.. WHATS your PPE's preferences and what are you currently using? I have Husqvarna Chaps, Either a Stihl or Ahlborn's Helmet. Red Wing Irish Setter Steel Toe Shoes, Either Husqvarna or Forester Gloves. I'm LOOKING for a Helmet option with a chin strap along with face mask & ear protection. Anyone know of an option like that? Had a small branch knock a standard helmet off...then the second part hit testing "hair" for protection with predictable results. But it was a wake up call. Also saw the results when a fellow got lazy with "tip" control on a 90 cc saw and took it to the face....no mask. A year of plastic surgery later is trying to re engage with life. I want a better face protection option!

( It really bother's me when those supposed experts skimp on the safety side of running saws....and these are BIG saws! I certainly will try to do better....and maybe add to the video's the safety gear used along with the saw info .. make that as much a priority as the things special about a particular saw)


----------



## trboxman

In advance of the additional kits showing up:


----------



## trboxman

BTarb24 said:


> It's seeming like if you plan on using the huztl decomp then you should also plan to epoxy it before you install it. I finally got around to doing mine last night. The only thing that was unexpected was that the epoxy creates an air seal and so the cap wont stay on the stem. I even spun it in circles for a good 30 seconds and it still would just spring back off due to the trapped air pressure. Drilling a tiny hole in the side of the cap solved the problem though.
> 
> Be sure that excess epoxy doesn't gather under the cap since that will reduce the travel of the decomp stem.
> 
> View attachment 530396



This is an item that you're going to want to get right. Once the little black cap comes off it's very, very easy for the decomp valve stem to drop into the combustion chamber. The cap on mine popped off during a cold start on day 2 so I replaced it with a plug.


----------



## Bedford T

You must be a buck. No help pulling that puppy over. I would like a kick starter for it. It would not be over kill


----------



## trboxman

I can still one handed straight arm lift a 50lb feedbag but I don't want to do it twice in a row 

Sent from a magic box in my pocket.


----------



## tbohn

I ran several of my saws today.
Huztl ms660 56mm
Stihl ms440 stock
Stihl 044 big bore
Stihl 361 stock
Stihl ms390 stock
Before the huztl ms660 started have high idle issues it was cutting strong. Strongest of all the others. I'm still chasing the idle issue. 
The big bore 044 has only 135 psi if I remember correctly. The guy I bought it from took offense when I told him it had low compression. I would not have purchased it except it came with a 28", 25", and a 20" bar with two chains for each. All for $450. It runs fine but l figure I could refresh the top at some point.
The ms440 ran great. Somehow the carb adjuster limiters fell off somewhere.
The 361 ran strong too. For the soft wood I was in today, it was the best choice.
The ms390 cut well. I could notice that it could not handle as much force in the cut.
I wanted to get more time on the huztl 660 but I need the figure out the idle issue tonight. The plug still looks brown. The idle is very fast and the clutch is fully engaged. The idle issue did not appear until about 1/2 tank. The high speed adjustment screw was very bent when I received the kit. I did straighten it but I wonder if there is air getting through. I checked the carb seat on the boot - it looked good. I checked the boot clamp on the cylinder - it tightened a little but l looked good.

Hopefully I'll find something tonight.


----------



## weimedog

tbohn said:


> I ran several of my saws today.
> Huztl ms660 56mm
> Stihl ms440 stock
> Stihl 044 big bore
> Stihl 361 stock
> Stihl ms390 stock
> Before the huztl ms660 started have high idle issues it was cutting strong. Strongest of all the others. I'm still chasing the idle issue.
> The big bore 044 has only 135 psi if I remember correctly. The guy I bought it from took offense when I told him it had low compression. I would not have purchased it except it came with a 28", 25", and a 20" bar with two chains for each. All for $450. It runs fine but l figure I could refresh the top at some point.
> The ms440 ran great. Somehow the carb adjuster limiters fell off somewhere.
> The 361 ran strong too. For the soft wood I was in today, it was the best choice.
> The ms390 cut well. I could notice that it could not handle as much force in the cut.
> I wanted to get more time on the huztl 660 but I need the figure out the idle issue tonight. The plug still looks brown. The idle is very fast and the clutch is fully engaged. The idle issue did not appear until about 1/2 tank. The high speed adjustment screw was very bent when I received the kit. I did straighten it but I wonder if there is air getting through. I checked the carb seat on the boot - it looked good. I checked the boot clamp on the cylinder - it tightened a little but l looked good.
> 
> Hopefully I'll find something tonight.



See if the pulse line blew partially off. Mine did, Still had to chase the idle a bit after replacing that with an OEM & using safety wire to crimp it on the cylinder end. Then swapped carbs and it was way better. Switched to a Walbro and its been much better. Only have to tweak the carb for seasonal changes now.. BTW ny 56mm was worth picking at to get it right. Its a beast.


----------



## Bedford T

Trboxman showed me this type clamp for those hoses. Very nice.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/390924780687?_mwBanner=1





tbohn said:


> I ran several of my saws today.
> Huztl ms660 56mm
> Stihl ms440 stock
> Stihl 044 big bore
> Stihl 361 stock
> Stihl ms390 stock
> Before the huztl ms660 started have high idle issues it was cutting strong. Strongest of all the others. I'm still chasing the idle issue.
> The big bore 044 has only 135 psi if I remember correctly. The guy I bought it from took offense when I told him it had low compression. I would not have purchased it except it came with a 28", 25", and a 20" bar with two chains for each. All for $450. It runs fine but l figure I could refresh the top at some point.
> The ms440 ran great. Somehow the carb adjuster limiters fell off somewhere.
> The 361 ran strong too. For the soft wood I was in today, it was the best choice.
> The ms390 cut well. I could notice that it could not handle as much force in the cut.
> I wanted to get more time on the huztl 660 but I need the figure out the idle issue tonight. The plug still looks brown. The idle is very fast and the clutch is fully engaged. The idle issue did not appear until about 1/2 tank. The high speed adjustment screw was very bent when I received the kit. I did straighten it but I wonder if there is air getting through. I checked the carb seat on the boot - it looked good. I checked the boot clamp on the cylinder - it tightened a little but l looked good.
> 
> Hopefully I'll find something tonight.


----------



## tbohn

weimedog said:


> See if the pulse line blew partially off. Mine did, Still had to chase the idle a bit after replacing that with an OEM & using safety wire to crimp it on the cylinder end. Then swapped carbs and it was way better. Switched to a Walbro and its been much better. Only have to tweak the carb for seasonal changes now.. BTW ny 56mm was worth picking at to get it right. Its a beast.


I agree the impulse line is questionable. On mine, the case end fit tightly on the case side barb. Its the end that slips on the carb fitting that does not seem to be a tight fit.
Last night I stripped the 660 down. I found a questionable setup of the carb boot and the metal support ring around the outside. Maybe the boot was pinched here a little. I found the metal boot clamp on the cylinder could take a couple of turns. I also found the cylinder bolts could take a 1/8 turn.

I also took the muffler off to check the bolts and look at the exhaust side of the piston. Everything looked good.

This morning, after adjusting the carb, it fired up and ran through a tank without issue. I set the carb very rich and never really worked it hard (I was cutting up a 14 inch balsam fir. I could set the spikes and crank hard on the saw without any hesitation.

I also ran a few more saws yesterday evening. A Shindaiwa 757, Jonsered 2083ii, and a Echo CS-590. The Shindaiwa ran great with lots of power. It was slower than the Stihl I was running. The 2083 was powerful but very heavy. I didn't run it much since I don't have the chain brake working and I am alone with nobody around for quite some ways. The Echo was smooth but it's power reminded me of my Husqvarna 455's- not impressive after you've run a 660 clone.
Oh, and here's the view where I am cutting.


----------



## trboxman

trboxman said:


> In advance of the additional kits showing up:



My 10 year old daughter rolled up on me while I was taking the pic and asked: "why are those bars so small Dad? Shouldn't they be 3' or so for the kit saw?". That cracked me up. Even after I explained to her that these would mostly be used for firewood she still wasn't buying that a 20" bar was big enough to be run on those saws....


----------



## NWCoaster

trboxman said:


> My 10 year old daughter rolled up on me while I was taking the pic and asked: "why are those bars so small Dad? Shouldn't they be 3' or so for the kit saw?". That cracked me up. Even after I explained to her that these would mostly be used for firewood she still wasn't buying that a 20" bar was big enough to be run on those saws....


See, even a 10 year old knows not to put a short bar on a saw like that unlike them eastern boys.....lol.


----------



## trboxman

NWCoaster said:


> See, even a 10 year old knows not to put a short bar on a saw like that unlike them eastern boys.....lol.



It was nice of you not to phrase that as "even a 10 year old girl..." that might have caused some hurt feelings. 

All kidding aside, unless you've cut trees on both coasts it's difficult to understand some of the preferences and equipment choices driven by the type of wood being cut. With that said, there aren't many folks cutting down 3' or bigger trees anymore on either coast. I'd still rather use my MS362 with a 20" bar than the 660 clone with a 20" bar simply because it's lighter and the speed doesn't matter enough to me. I'll still use the crap out of the 660 cause it's fun and fast...


----------



## jackjcc

Ordered 9/23 and still pending...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## trboxman

I got a FedEx tracking number today. Ordered 9/21


----------



## Pagie

Mine ordered 24/09 still waiting


----------



## 67L36Driver

Ordered a MS361 kit this morning.

We will see how long it takes to get to Joetown, Missouri.


----------



## davhul

They shipped my order yesterday that I placed on the 24th


----------



## BTarb24

Well I made my first cut today. It was marvelous! 5x faster than my 50cc saw. However, that turned out to be my only cut 

As soon as I was through, I head something metal spin inside and the saw cut out. After taking the starter cover off i saw that the flywheel nut was loose and so was the flywheel. It seems I didn't tighten the flywheel nut enough. There doesn't appear to be any permanent damage other than it breaking the woodruff key. I'm going to order a couple more and give her another whirl once they come in.


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## tbohn

BTarb24 said:


> Well I made my first cut today. It was marvelous! 5x faster than my 50cc saw. However, that turned out to be my only cut
> 
> As soon as I was through, I head something metal spin inside and the saw cut out. After taking the starter cover off i saw that the flywheel nut was loose and so was the flywheel. It seems I didn't tighten the flywheel nut enough. There doesn't appear to be any permanent damage other than it breaking the woodruff key. I'm going to order a couple more and give her another whirl once they come in.
> 
> View attachment 531044


Mine did the same thing. My local Stihl dealer is still waiting for one to come in that was ordered early last week. I drove 30 miles to a different dealer to get one. I tightened the flywheel nut much tighter this time. I tried to steal one from some of the chainsaw carcasses that I have but they were all too thick.


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## BTarb24

I just called and ordered my replacement key. They estimated 3-5 business days. The last one i ordered only took 3 days (the key was missing in my kit so i had to buy oem). Maybe i'll get a nice quick delivery this time too.

I also ordered an e-clip for the brake system (i broke one during installation) along with oem filler caps since mine both seem to leak no matter how much I tighten them.


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## davhul

If anyone was interested the jet size in my carb is a 
.62mm
I up it to a .72mm and will tune and cut Friday. The brazil 066 has the .74 along with the old 066 mag. The reason I checked is because with this NWP cylinder with light porting and taking .020 off the fly key I had to go almost 2 turns out on the high side adjustment. Now I'm back to around 1 turn.


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## tbohn

BTarb24 said:


> I just called and ordered my replacement key. They estimated 3-5 business days. The last one i ordered only took 3 days (the key was missing in my kit so i had to buy oem). Maybe i'll get a nice quick delivery this time too.
> 
> I also ordered an e-clip for the brake system (i broke one during installation) along with oem filler caps since mine both seem to leak no matter how much I tighten them.


I must have gotten lucky with the caps. Mine don't leak if I crank them tight.


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## davhul

Grabbed a bar on the way out today for Friday cutting


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## trboxman

Looks like a loop of 33RSF on a medium sized bar


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## davhul

Yep. I like it and RS. I have no shortage of chain laying around


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## MustangMike

Hey guys, with the flywheels, 2 things (and I had it happen on an OEM 460):

1) The nut must be very tight, friction holds the flywheel in place, not the key, and;

2) Make sure both surfaces are very clean, or you will have trouble. I often use brake cleaner on them (don't get it on the seal), and a Q-Tip for inside the flywheel.


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## Pagie

I had a reply from them about my saw, the 360. They said owing to the reshuffle to a new warehouse they have misplaced some of the parts so are waiting to get them all together before sending


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## 67L36Driver

Pagie said:


> I had a reply from them about my saw, the 360. They said owing to the reshuffle to a new warehouse they have misplaced some of the parts so are waiting to get them all together before sending



Damn! Just my luck I ordered one (361) yesterday.[emoji37]


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## Pagie

I got the pieces I ordered for a 440, mainly some fuel hoses and a carbi, they were ordered a week after the saw.


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## trboxman

Pagie said:


> I got the pieces I ordered for a 440, mainly some fuel hoses and a carbi, they were ordered a week after the saw.



I had the same experience. I do have a delivery date for the 6 saws that I ordered on 9/21, they should be delivered on 10/18.


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## 67L36Driver

Where do you plug in the order number in the Hutzel website to get a status?

My mistake I didn't register as a buyer just as a 'guest'.


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## tbohn

67L36Driver said:


> Where do you plug in the order number in the Hutzel website to get a status?
> 
> My mistake I didn't register as a buyer just as a 'guest'.


I bought mine as a guest and never could get a status from the website. I kept getting an order not found response. I finally emailed [email protected] and they responded.


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## Bedford T

You likely should log into paypal and check shipped status on transaction. Or as suggested Email them.

I think there may have been a email from them after the purchase with a way to track. Can't remember.


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## 67L36Driver

Thanks fellas. I found the information I will need in my Paypal account.

I'll give them two or three weeks and check.


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## BTarb24

I had created an account but it never showed the product as being shipped. The only way I ended up with a tracking number is because I opened a paypal dispute 2 weeks later because it felt like they were never going to ship it. They provided a shipping quote on the paypal dispute.. but it never did show as being shipped on my order status.


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## jackjcc

Somebody had that problem and Huztl told them there was an issue with the website updating the status. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## trboxman

I emailed them every other day from 9/31 till 10/14 in order to get status. To their credit they responded to every single message.


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## Bedford T

A dedicated customer!


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## jackjcc

I finally have a tracking number! But no idea where to track it. It says expedited usps, but the tracking number doesn't work on their site. Probably have to keep waiting for it to register. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## trboxman

Try here: http://www.sf-express.com/cn/en/dynamic_functions/waybill/


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## weimedog

A couple put together with "unenlightened" technic


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## tbohn

I liked the ms660 so much I just ordered 6 more.


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## 67L36Driver




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## weimedog

tbohn said:


> I liked the ms660 so much I just ordered 6 more.



Parts bins of parts or whole saws? I might try a kit with the smaller ones. The 036 series.


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## tbohn

weimedog said:


> Parts bins of parts or whole saws? I might try a kit with the smaller ones. The 036 series.


I bought more kits. I want one or two more for myself. I will either sell the other four as kits or complete.


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## CR888

The 361 kit would be interesting, also does anyone know if they do a ms440 kit? I know they do many 440 parts.


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## weimedog

tbohn said:


> I brought more kits. I want one or two more for myself. I will either sell the other four as kits or complete.


I have to confess they are addicting... partly because of price / performance, but also a simple and rugged design that has endured into its current clone form. Totally practical Along with cheap cylinders to hack....just a ton of fun for me.


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## trboxman

weimedog said:


> I have to confess they are addicting... partly because of price / performance, but also a simple and rugged design that has endured into its current clone form. Totally practical Along with cheap cylinders to hack....just a ton of fun for me.



They've got me hooked.


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## MustangMike

I think if other people did not start bringing me their saws to fix, I would be "in". However, in the last month I've repaired 6 saws (including 2 new pistons) for others.

They include 2 MS460s, 2 MS660s, a MS461 and a MS201T. Plus I'm working on converting an 034 to an 036 for myself, and it needs bearings.

Sorta keeps me busy already.


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## jackjcc

CR888 said:


> The 361 kit would be interesting, also does anyone know if they do a ms440 kit? I know they do many 440 parts.



I'm still waiting on mine...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MustangMike

They make a lot of 440 parts, but to my knowledge no kit yet, and I'm surprised they don't have a 460 tank holder, although the 440 will work but has a smaller tank.


----------



## Pagie

I missed my delivery as I was out.


----------



## CR888

A kind of 'list' of the AM Clone 660 parts that are poor quality compared to OEM like the chain tensioner etc would be helpful for guys doing these builds. Maybe a few OEM parts could really better these builds possibly. From reports do far, the kits seem to be acceptably good. I'm going to do one and use some OEM parts but still use most of the kit.


----------



## scheffa

Just ordered myself a 361 kit last week, waiting to be shipped as apparently a "few small parts are out of stock"


----------



## weimedog

CR888 said:


> A kind of 'list' of the AM Clone 660 parts that are poor quality compared to OEM like the chain tensioner etc would be helpful for guys doing these builds. Maybe a few OEM parts could really better these builds possibly. From reports do far, the kits seem to be acceptably good. I'm going to do one and use some OEM parts but still use most of the kit.



I guess the point is that the stuff isn't bad. I've pointed out early on the issues I had with chain adjust mechanism, tank cap rubber seals, decomp, and spotty carbs. Those issues were tangible and I suspect most who don't swap them out will eventually do so. I did have issues with the pull start on the first one, a drop of oil fixed that. Nothing but wood chips since.

A suggested upgrade path to close in on factory built saws might be case seals, intake rubber parts (I use OEM pulse lines ), and possibly a better top end but I'm not certain other than OEM what that would be. I like the 56mm versions. Haven't really seen any of the AM 56mm's that impress me enough to move away from the FT. But I have no failures to report on any of these suggestions, its pure speculation based on instinct, look and feel of the parts.

Having said that, mine are all running just fine and haven't given me a reason to swap out anything but those things I mentioned in the first paragraph to this point. When and if they do..... you know there will be an update video. 

AND if there are any Huztl/Farmertec folks watching, RAISE the floor of the exhaust port on those 56mm top ends .025in and all free porting issues goes away with metal to spare for those who would like to tweak a bit...and the port STILL will be level with the piston at BDC within a reasonable tolerance. Of course they might already have done so, the last one I've received was in early 2015. Actually this is as much a cosmetic thing as so far none of the FT 56mm top ends I've seen to this point have enough free port to matter. Not the case with some of the other AM outlets with similar looking castings but the issue is real.


----------



## jackjcc

scheffa said:


> Just ordered myself a 361 kit last week, waiting to be shipped as apparently a "few small parts are out of stock"



Took 3 weeks for mine to ship 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Bedford T

I just spent a considerable amount of time assembling the needed parts order for a 440. There are about 10 small important parts I will have to buy OEM. For some reason the parts off my IPL are different on Huztl website. I had to use both eBay and Huztl and oem to get a complete saw, but i got it. It will cost at least $100 more than the 660 kit

I have a company working on a 381 for me should be ready next week. All the parts are available using 038 and 440 like the coil. It's still in production in South africa. I will be happy with 72cc. With kit costs in line.


----------



## twinstaged

Been following this and the YouTube stuff for awhile. Just ordered my 660 kit today. We'll see how long it takes to get to Ohio. I would like to get ahold of them about maybe a ms200t kit... I see they make a good portion of the parts.


----------



## Bedford T

I had no luck in getting them to respond to that request. My local stihl guy told me that would be a very hot seller.

I think you can expect a 3 week wait just based on when everyone actually get theirs. I also suspect you could get it sooner if your order comes on a day they are shipping.


----------



## MustangMike

weimedog said:


> A suggested upgrade path to close in on factory built saws might be case seals, intake rubber parts (I use OEM pulse lines )



Interesting. Have you had any of these parts fail, or are you just being cautious? In other places, I have heard not to use AM fuel line, but that all of the other rubber is OK to use. _*Are you using FT fuel line and filter?*_ and Plug?

I'm also *curious about the oil line, as I need to got one for an 034.*

FYI, I've used FT impulse line on a few saws w/o issue so far. In fact, on a 029 to 039 conversion, I used FT seals, impulse, and air filter in addition to their P&C. Also, no problem so far with the decomp valve.


----------



## 67L36Driver

67L36Driver said:


> Ordered a MS361 kit this morning.
> 
> We will see how long it takes to get to Joetown, Missouri.



Thirteen days.[emoji15]






That's damn fine service in my experience.[emoji106]

Inventory next.[emoji848]


----------



## Bedford T

Great service. Now you get to have some fun and cut some wood with a nice new saw


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## Bedford T

I tallied the parts for the 220t today which farmertec makes and besides the fuel tank which is a major section of the saw they don't make 40 other parts. Like the handle is only a shell so you need the complete workings. Still making a large portion. But with the tank and other parts and shipping I bet it would come close to 600$. I recorded the prices except the oem which I don't have access to. So I feel I am close and that's disappointing.



twinstaged said:


> Been following this and the YouTube stuff for awhile. Just ordered my 660 kit today. We'll see how long it takes to get to Ohio. I would like to get ahold of them about maybe a ms200t kit... I see they make a good portion of the parts.


----------



## Hydro74

I tallied up the parts from huzt.net to build a ms440 big bore kit came out at about $500 with shipping the only part they don't make is the carb baffle but I picked up two from my local stihl dealer for $20 a piece now if they only made a full kit for the ts400 I'd be a happy man!
On my third 660 kit and ones a big bore I put a stihl carb and poly flywheel and ignition on it and she pulls like a swamp donkey with a 36" bar and full chisel chain on her!


----------



## Hydro74

Here's the 660 big bore with the west coast style clutch cover cost a few extra bucks but out here in BC you gotta have it!


----------



## twinstaged

Bedford T said:


> I tallied the parts for the 220t today which farmertec makes and besides the fuel tank which is a major section of the saw they don't make 40 other parts. Like the handle is only a shell so you need the complete workings. Still making a large portion. But with the tank and other parts and shipping I bet it would come close to 600$. I recorded the prices except the oem which I don't have access to. So I feel I am close and that's disappointing.[/QUOTE



Yeah that's too bad it's that much.


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## Pagie

My 360 arrived today, parts look good.


----------



## scheffa

Got an email today saying mine has been shipped, no tracking number as yet, they told me it will be provided once they receive it. I bought my from west machinery through eBay, $373 delivered to Aus, that's about $1500 cheaper than buying an original here


----------



## Pagie

I started to unwrap all the parts of the 360. The only part I can't find is the woodruff key, I know they have been missing from other kits. I have looked through all the bags twice and can't find it. I will look again in the morning but may have to go and buy one.


----------



## 67L36Driver

Pagie said:


> I started to unwrap all the parts of the 360. The only part I can't find is the woodruff key, I know they have been missing from other kits. I have looked through all the bags twice and can't find it. I will look again in the morning but may have to go and buy one.



Stuck to the flywheel magnet?


----------



## davhul

That's where mine was


----------



## jstare

Hydro74 said:


> View attachment 533428
> Here's the 660 big bore with the west coast style clutch cover cost a few extra bucks but out here in BC you gotta have it!



Hey I am in BC as well, in Chilliwack. What was your total cost in the end with shipping and the exchange rate? If you don't mind me asking. I am looking to get one myself to build over the winter, but want to know what to expect for cost.


----------



## tbohn

67L36Driver said:


> Stuck to the flywheel magnet?


The flywheel key for my 660 kit was in a small bag by itself inside the bag for the flywheel. It was hard to miss.


----------



## jackjcc

tbohn said:


> The flywheel key for my 660 kit was in a small bag by itself inside the bag for the flywheel. It was hard to miss.



This is where mine was for the 361 kit


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Pagie

I have looked everywhere and cant find it. Looked through the box and all the bags and checked the magnet. Buggar. Can I buy one at an engineering shop or at a Stihl Shop? Are they a standard part?


----------



## twinstaged

2 x 3.7 mm woodruff key I believe.


----------



## MustangMike

Pagie said:


> I have looked everywhere and cant find it. Looked through the box and all the bags and checked the magnet. Buggar. Can I buy one at an engineering shop or at a Stihl Shop? Are they a standard part?



Sometimes! I got one at a Stihl shop one time and had to file it (both narrow & less tall) to get it to fit. But they also sold Husky, so who knows what it was for.


----------



## 67L36Driver

Ace is the place!

All sorts of 'chainsaw parts' in the hardware aisle.


----------



## Pagie

67L36Driver said:


> Ace is the place!
> 
> All sorts of 'chainsaw parts' in the hardware aisle.


Not sure where Ace is. I got two in a bearing shop.


----------



## brandonstc6

Pagie said:


> Not sure where Ace is. I got two in a bearing shop.



It is a chain of hardware stores in the USA. They are all over the place. I don't think they have any worldwide stores tho. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 67L36Driver

And, some Ace stores are Stihl dealers.

But, not my choice for Stihl parts in River City. We have three other dealers.[emoji106]


----------



## Hydro74

jstare said:


> Hey I am in BC as well, in Chilliwack. What was your total cost in the end with shipping and the exchange rate? If you don't mind me asking. I am looking to get one myself to build over the winter, but want to know what to expect for cost.


Pm sent


----------



## jstare

Has anyone tried using one of these ms660 for milling yet? I was thinking about buying 2 of them for a double head milling setup. The parts are cheap if something fails, or if one or both burns up they are cheap to replace. I can get 2 of these ms660 for way less than the cost of one real Stihl. Any thoughts, are these durable enough for milling applications?


----------



## MrGiggles

I log onto AS for the first time in months, and you guys manage to swindle me out of 150 bucks in the first 5 minutes. Thanks....

But, new chainsaws are all that get me back into cutting wood. Now, the question is, 372 or 361? 

AS is working fantastic now on my satellite internet too.


----------



## Dieseldash

MrGiggles said:


> I log onto AS for the first time in months, and you guys manage to swindle me out of 150 bucks in the first 5 minutes. Thanks....
> 
> But, new chainsaws are all that get me back into cutting wood. Now, the question is, 372 or 361?
> 
> AS is working fantastic now on my satellite internet too.



I'd like to hear some current reviews of the Husky 372 kit. I think I read it wasn't up to the "quality" of the 660 kit. I've got the bug to order one of these kits too but I'm leaning on the MS660. Figure I need one big *** saw. My old man has a real Stihl MS361 pro so it would be redundant to build another. The 660 kit is the best bang for the money though.


----------



## Bedford T

you guys watch you woodruff keys. i mean installation. i had the benefit of reading where others had an issue after install. replies were shaft must be clean, nut torqued properly. mine was and it gave up into my first 10 minutes. i was slow out of the cutting gate because my back went south, it got better and i went a hunting for my wood. if it keeps happening we need to assume the steel is at fault. i am going to get a stihl key. i have waited this long. it did great for 10 minutes.


----------



## MustangMike

The key does not hold the flywheel in place, it just aligns it. Friction holds it in place. If things are not clean & tight, the key will always shear.

There is video of a big bore kit milling. Don't know how much was done, but the saw is still running as far as I know.

Was gonna get one myself, but found a real one at a reasonable price.


----------



## MustangMike

The other thing I wanted to ask about, does it come with an elastostart handle?

I ordered AM ones twice, and they both failed rapidly, so I get them through Stihl now. I prefer them on my saws.


----------



## davhul

My 064 doesn't have a key. I set the timing and that's it. It's been that way for a year now


----------



## blsnelling

MustangMike said:


> The key does not hold the flywheel in place, it just aligns it. Friction holds it in place. If things are not clean & tight, the key will always shear.





davhul said:


> My 064 doesn't have a key. I set the timing and that's it. It's been that way for a year now


If a key shears, either the taper is not a good fit or the nut wasn't tight.


----------



## davhul

True. On my huztl when I bumped the timing up I thought I wasn't going to get the flywheel back off. It was so tight my normal smack with the hammer on loose nut wouldn't work. Had wait and get my puller and it had a hard time


----------



## 67L36Driver

On the Farmertec 361 crank, the keyway was not for a woodruff key although the key supplied was a woodruff.
I was leery of the flywheel not fitting correctly. But it seems OK.


----------



## MustangMike

Brad, if there is any oil or grease on that taper, it will not hold I don't care how tight you make it.

I generally clean it with brake cleaner, being careful not to get it on the seal. I use a Q-Tip, help do the inside of the flywheel.


----------



## tbohn

Dieseldash said:


> I'd like to hear some current reviews of the Husky 372 kit. I think I read it wasn't up to the "quality" of the 660 kit. I've got the bug to order one of these kits too but I'm leaning on the MS660. Figure I need one big *** saw. My old man has a real Stihl MS361 pro so it would be redundant to build another. The 660 kit is the best bang for the money though.


I ordered one in early September. It arrived without any of the bolts and screws. I let huztl know and I am stihl waiting for them to arrive. I have no idea if they have even been shipped.

The case halves were also corroded. They said it will still work and they are not replacing them. I'm not happy about this.


----------



## Dieseldash

tbohn said:


> I ordered one in early September. It arrived without any of the bolts and screws. I let huztl know and I am stihl waiting for them to arrive. I have no idea if they have even been shipped.
> 
> The case halves were also corroded. They said it will still work and they are not replacing them. I'm not happy about this.



Just for clarification which kit did you order tbohn?


----------



## axeandwedge

I bought several 660 kits from Hutzl 
The wrist pin bearing failed in less than five minutes chewed up the piston and cylinder,Hutzl replaced the cylinder kit.
I used a genuine Stihl wrist pin bearing when reassembling, and used caber rings.l gave my mate the saw to test out,he is a full time wood cutter.
Our aim was to run it as hard as the Genuine MS 660 and so far the Am saw is going strong and has around 100 hours on it.
The fuel and impulse hoses are junk as well as the fuel filter,bar studs and nuts are soft,chain adjuster not so good .overall I'm really happy with them .Half a dozen loads of wood and it's paid for. Good back up saw.,Wouldn't expect it to last anywhere near as long as the real deal.
Good experience though putting these saws 
together.

Oh nearly forgot handle bar soft bends very easily and soft bucking spikes.

Sent from my HTC_0P6B using Tapatalk


----------



## Hydro74

axeandwedge said:


> I bought several 660 kits from Hutzl
> The wrist pin bearing failed in less than five minutes chewed up the piston and cylinder,Hutzl replaced the cylinder kit.
> I used a genuine Stihl wrist pin bearing when reassembling, and used caber rings.l gave my mate the saw to test out,he is a full time wood cutter.
> Our aim was to run it as hard as the Genuine MS 660 and so far the Am saw is going strong and has around 100 hours on it.
> The fuel and impulse hoses are junk as well as the fuel filter,bar studs and nuts are soft,chain adjuster not so good .overall I'm really happy with them .Half a dozen loads of wood and it's paid for. Good back up saw.,Wouldn't expect it to last anywhere near as long as the real deal.
> Good experience though putting these saws
> together.
> 
> Oh nearly forgot handle bar soft bends very easily and soft bucking spikes.
> 
> Sent from my HTC_0P6B using Tapatalk


Wow! Never experienced this yet with all the huztl 660 kits I've built anyone else had wrist pin bearings fail? Agreed with all the rest mentioned above..


----------



## tbohn

Dieseldash said:


> Just for clarification which kit did you order tbohn?


I ordered a H365 and a ms660 kit. The H365 kit was missing all the fasteners. I did get a response from Huztl with a tracking number for the replacement parts. It looks like the parts will be here today! The H365 kit also had the corroded case halves. The corrosion is not deep and it will not affect saw other than the splotchy discoloration. Most of it will be covered by crankcase gasket/cylinder but the it will be exposed where the bar attaches. I am very happy with the ms660. So much so I ordered 6 more.


----------



## frag-88

Good Day, I would like to share your thoughts ...
I write a review on Farmertec. I work with their spare parts for more than 2 years. These are mainly parts for husqvarna 372, 350-353. It took a lot of parts for these models, the quality is fine with me more than ...
It took a lot of information on the experience weimedog, thank you for your video ...

Honestly, I do not really like the quality of the last batches of parts, I failed several times during the 2 months. I do not know what it is connected, they can become more than produce, so the quality has fallen?
Recent failures with the engine for the MS 250. The crankshaft is hanging in the air is to tighten bolts. Here's a video...

Just recently I received a cylinder 372 with a hole
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B9R8jFYkKK91a0owT1BIQWp5Rms?usp=sharing
They sent the replacement of these parts, but I'm not sure that 250 parts models come ready for work ...

even I noticed such a thing ...
Squish on cylinders Farmertec without base gasket = squish OEM cylinders with a base gasket (85%)


----------



## tbohn

I just purchased a ms440 all OEM with no compression. I was able to clean the cylinder up perfectly with a little muriatic acid and scotch pad. Instead of buying new Meteor or equivalent piston/rings for $50 and reinstalling the OEM cylinder, I installed a Farmertec BB top end that I had paid less than $30 shipped. The quality looked excellent - didn't touch up any of the ports- and runs great. I have not checked compression or squish but I would guess the compression is over 150PSI by feel. The Farmertec parts are NOT OEM quality but if it lasts a couple years before I have to rebuild it I'm good with that. I get more enjoyment out of fixing them than using them... using them is hard work!


----------



## MustangMike

But will it run as strong as OEM, or just consume more fuel?


----------



## Andyshine77

The couple of Chinese clam shell MS390 blocks I've had my hands one were garbage, especially the bearings, including the bottom end bearing. The sealant between the cylinder and shell was not only poorly applied, but the mating surfaces were covered with grease. 

These whole saw kits do look like a lot of fun to play around with, I'll probably end up getting one at some point just for the hell of it. 

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk


----------



## Dieseldash

tbohn said:


> I ordered a H365 and a ms660 kit. The H365 kit was missing all the fasteners. I did get a response from Huztl with a tracking number for the replacement parts. It looks like the parts will be here today! The H365 kit also had the corroded case halves. The corrosion is not deep and it will not affect saw other than the splotchy discoloration. Most of it will be covered by crankcase gasket/cylinder but the it will be exposed where the bar attaches. I am very happy with the ms660. So much so I ordered 6 more.



Yeah the MS660 is a no-brainer. I'd rarely need a 90+ cc saw so it's hard to justify the $1400 or so MSRP for a new ms661 but a Hutzl at 1/4 the cost of a real one is tempting. I'm not saying a big 90cc saw wouldn't be awesome. I can easily justify the cost of a genuine new 372xp cause it would get used all the time and is roughly half the price of a new ms661.


----------



## axeandwedge

A mate of mine broke the end off his crankshaft on his 660,we called a couple of Stihl dealer's,$630.00 full retail _ Farmertec had one for $60.00 shipped We went with the am crank and new bearings and seals .
The saw would have been wrecked if no am parts were available.
The old saw is running well again.

Sent from my HTC_0P6B using Tapatalk


----------



## 67L36Driver

Is it my imagination or did the price of the Husky 372 kit go up?

I find it at $158 and shipping to Joetown is $94.


----------



## marti384

I think it was mentioned earlier in this thread that all the kit prices went up by about $40.


----------



## 67L36Driver

I must have gotten my 361 kit just before they went up.

Interested in a 372 because unlike the Stihl clone, I have Husky mount guide bars on hand.


----------



## Bedford T

we have discussed here that it appears they use different manufactures to source their parts and I have not read the site in a few days and it appears were are beginning to see failures reported. Maybe if you guys tell huztl they will try to choose better sources.




frag-88 said:


> Good Day, I would like to share your thoughts ...
> I write a review on Farmertec. I work with their spare parts for more than 2 years. These are mainly parts for husqvarna 372, 350-353. It took a lot of parts for these models, the quality is fine with me more than ...
> It took a lot of information on the experience weimedog, thank you for your video ...
> 
> Honestly, I do not really like the quality of the last batches of parts, I failed several times during the 2 months. I do not know what it is connected, they can become more than produce, so the quality has fallen?
> Recent failures with the engine for the MS 250. The crankshaft is hanging in the air is to tighten bolts. Here's a video...
> 
> Just recently I received a cylinder 372 with a hole
> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B9R8jFYkKK91a0owT1BIQWp5Rms?usp=sharing
> They sent the replacement of these parts, but I'm not sure that 250 parts models come ready for work ...
> 
> even I noticed such a thing ...
> Squish on cylinders Farmertec without base gasket = squish OEM cylinders with a base gasket (85%)


----------



## davhul

Had a huztl rope rotor split. Taking one off my 064 til I can order another oem replacement. 
It's almost like the plastic was to hard and cracked


----------



## 67L36Driver

Hutzel/Farmertec 361 kit compression release.


----------



## davhul

67L36Driver said:


> Hutzel/Farmertec 361 kit compression release.



It didn't run long enough to build any carbon up on it yet.


----------



## trboxman

I've pretty much resorted to just epoxying them from the start.


----------



## davhul

I've seen to many engines trash by them. I'll stick with my plug


----------



## 67L36Driver

davhul said:


> It didn't run long enough to build any carbon up on it yet.



Total run time is fifteen minutes by then.

Now it's having carb trouble. Won't pass fuel. [emoji848]


----------



## scheffa

Starting to think it may have been a mistake ordering a 361 kit


----------



## davhul

The saw I gave a friend to have I swaped a wj-67 carb on it with the jet opened to .74 
I had one laying around so I used it and left it on because it had a little better idle to it and would idle for as long as you won't without loading up. Not that saws idles much but I can't stand it when one won't.


----------



## 67L36Driver

The fuel line in the 361 kit is a POS. 

Saw is sitting on the bench sweating fuel from the porous rubber.


----------



## 13TreeWorks

Ordered my kit about 8:00 pm on the 25th of October it arrived today ...... just had to rub that in a little


----------



## 67L36Driver

Well, maybe not:







R&R the carb four or six times may have exploited a weak spot.


----------



## davhul

Glad you found the problem. I would go OE on the fuel line if possible


----------



## tbohn

tbohn said:


> I ordered a H365 and a ms660 kit. The H365 kit was missing all the fasteners. I did get a response from Huztl with a tracking number for the replacement parts. It looks like the parts will be here today! The H365 kit also had the corroded case halves. The corrosion is not deep and it will not affect saw other than the splotchy discoloration. Most of it will be covered by crankcase gasket/cylinder but the it will be exposed where the bar attaches. I am very happy with the ms660. So much so I ordered 6 more.


Well I got around to assembling the 372 kit after receiving all the nuts and bolts. The quality is not as good as the 660 kit. I ordered a big bore kit with it. Both the P&C from the kit and the bb were very good. I didn't have to clean anything up. 
The handle AV doesn't fit perfectly but it will work. The carb/boot seal was not good so I put some motoseal on it.

The problem I have is the saw will not fire with fuel, compression, and spark. The spark is weak. I think this is because I can't adjust the coil gap close enough to the flywheel. The top part of the coil is approximately 0.050 inch gap. Maybe tomorrow I will try the coil from my 575xp.


----------



## frag-88

tbohn said:


> Well I got around to assembling the 372 kit after receiving all the nuts and bolts. The quality is not as good as the 660 kit. I ordered a big bore kit with it. Both the P&C from the kit and the bb were very good. I didn't have to clean anything up.
> The handle AV doesn't fit perfectly but it will work. The carb/boot seal was not good so I put some motoseal on it.
> 
> The problem I have is the saw will not fire with fuel, compression, and spark. The spark is weak. I think this is because I can't adjust the coil gap close enough to the flywheel. The top part of the coil is approximately 0.050 inch gap. Maybe tomorrow I will try the coil from my 575xp.


I can advise to finish a little bolt holes in the ignition module, it allows you to get closer to the flywheel. This is easily done with a round file for sharpening chains ...


----------



## tbohn

frag-88 said:


> I can advise to finish a little bolt holes in the ignition module, it allows you to get closer to the flywheel. This is easily done with a round file for sharpening chains ...


I can't get the coil pickup closer to the flywheel even without the bolts in place. There is a relieved section in the coil that fits over the bolt mounting post that is causing the interference. Maybe I will grind down the mounting post on the crankcase to get closer. Also, the middle coil pickup extends further out that the other two on the coil. When it is in contact with the flywheel, the other two pickups are still 30-50 mils away from the flywheel.

So I think the coil is defective in that the two outer pickups are too short.

I guess my main point is the ms660 kits are better quality than the H365/372 kits from my experience. I have six more ms660 kits coming on Thursday. I will be happy if they are the same or better quality than the first one I purchased. I still don't know what I am going to do with all of them.


----------



## 67L36Driver

Save for the few glitches that came up, I'm happy with the 361.

Our first 361 to boot having never even looked at one before.


----------



## twinstaged

Well I ordered mine the 24/25 and it came today as well. Haven't gone through it yet.


----------



## davhul

Did you order the 660


----------



## twinstaged

davhul said:


> Did you order the 660



Yep


----------



## 13TreeWorks

Really wish they wouldent send it with the crank seals Installed. Oh and a drill press is not ideal but works ..... I wouldent make a habit of pushing cranks with it.


----------



## twinstaged

Well so far I'm not too thrilled with the quality. The bearings are in the case and are notchy and locking up... you can see metal bur flakes and feel grit in them. I'll see how they feel after flushing them but I'll probably replace them. The case halfs have corrosion on the machined surfaces like they were stored wet. All fixable/usable things, but really not a great start. 
The cylinder has some spots in it I'm not thrilled with. Spots that you can still make out rough cast through the cross hatch hone. You can see where the core they use for casting around the transfers either had a extra chunk or the cylinder had some shrinkage and suck back as it cooled. It'll run and not as bad as some I've seen pictures of, but nothing I would be proud of.


----------



## twinstaged

13TreeWorks said:


> Really wish they wouldent send it with the crank seals Installed. Oh and a drill press is not ideal but works ..... I wouldent make a habit of pushing cranks with it.



My seals are installed and I wish they weren't. Same for the bearings.


----------



## 13TreeWorks

So the base of my cylinder has no machining marks on it ....... anyone else run into that one ??? I'm waiting on a oem wrist pin bearing but I guess I could check squish with the Chinese one .... I'll post pics when I get home


----------



## davhul

Both my kits have a problem with the throttle staying locked when the control lever is at one notch above choke. I found the problem and the fix I did is not what I like to do. And will think of other options for the repair.


----------



## 67L36Driver

I used the oven at 275 for the case halves and the ice maker for the crank. Dropped right together. No problems with the seals.

(MS361)


----------



## 13TreeWorks

I had the same in my bearings. I decided it was over spray from the paint/powder coat ...... it flushed right out with carb cleaner but that in turn made the paint/powder coat soft after it evaporates it hardens back up but it is what it is ...... clutch cover was countersunk for the bar studs tho


----------



## 67L36Driver

Polish the bearing surface with 600 paper and a smear of grease.


----------



## davhul

13TreeWorks said:


> So the base of my cylinder has no machining marks on it ....... anyone else run into that one ??? I'm waiting on a oem wrist pin bearing but I guess I could check squish with the Chinese one .... I'll post pics when I get home



Without the gasket I was at .023 squish. Wonder how much different yours will be. 660 kit


----------



## 13TreeWorks

Was the base machined tho ??


----------



## davhul

No


----------



## davhul

The first one I did I used the gasket and 
press/vacc test and passed. The second I used dirko without gasket


----------



## Ozhoo

I built one of these contraptions yesterday and left the seals in place. Turned out to be a waste of time. During p/v test it failed between the case and the seal.


----------



## blsnelling

You simply cannot be sure that the lateral forces on the crank bearings are relieved unless you remove the seals.


----------



## davhul

Also if you drive the seal past flush the seal rubs on the bearing center


----------



## tbohn

tbohn said:


> I can't get the coil pickup closer to the flywheel even without the bolts in place. There is a relieved section in the coil that fits over the bolt mounting post that is causing the interference. Maybe I will grind down the mounting post on the crankcase to get closer. Also, the middle coil pickup extends further out that the other two on the coil. When it is in contact with the flywheel, the other two pickups are still 30-50 mils away from the flywheel.
> 
> So I think the coil is defective in that the two outer pickups are too short.
> 
> I guess my main point is the ms660 kits are better quality than the H365/372 kits from my experience. I have six more ms660 kits coming on Thursday. I will be happy if they are the same or better quality than the first one I purchased. I still don't know what I am going to do with all of them.


I swapped the 575xp coil and it started on the first pull! I guess the huztl coil is bad.


----------



## davhul

Open my kit and the are missing


----------



## tbohn

davhul said:


> Open my kit and the are missing


At least they are not pre-installed!


----------



## davhul

True. My crank centered at about .028 on both sides


----------



## 67L36Driver

davhul said:


> True. My crank centered at about .028 on both sides



You chase the threads in that?

They be shiney fresh for magnesium.


----------



## davhul

I shot some carb cleaner in it and blew them out before I started. Same time I washed out the bearings. I drop some oil on the bearings after the seals are in from the inside.


----------



## davhul

I do have the shop door open sitting in the sun.


----------



## Ozhoo

Here's a bone dry Hutzl660 perched atop a scale for those interested parties.


----------



## NElogger

Just a question for those of you that know way more than me. I got my Huztl 660 together and running, it runs well idles pretty good, but when I get done with a cut it seems like it takes forever for it to idle back down. I don't know if I have an air leak somewhere or what but I figured I'd ask before I started tearing into it. Thanks!


----------



## blsnelling

A lean L needle can contribute to that.


----------



## davhul

If it's not that. Take the carb back off and check and see if the butterfly is sticking. If so loosen and re tighten the screw


----------



## 67L36Driver

davhul said:


> If it's not that. Take the carb back off and check and see if the butterfly is sticking. If so loosen and re tighten the screw



Throttle plate screw. Back out the idle speed screw first. Tap on it to seal with no light showing around the edges.


----------



## tbohn

NElogger said:


> Just a question for those of you that know way more than me. I got my Huztl 660 together and running, it runs well idles pretty good, but when I get done with a cut it seems like it takes forever for it to idle back down. I don't know if I have an air leak somewhere or what but I figured I'd ask before I started tearing into it. Thanks!


I had some binding on the linkage between the throttle trigger and the carb. The rubber boot was not sliding on the metal linkage rod. I put some oil on it and the binding went away.


----------



## davhul

So how many huztl saws are running now?


----------



## Bedford T

an interesting question.

If you want you can take this survey i made with google forms it will collect only your answers and i will post them often. just asks how many saw kits you bought.

https://goo.gl/forms/b80SfAkF9iHlaK0j2


----------



## 13TreeWorks

Well as of tonight mine is running ..... ish ...







Not super impressed its kindof stupid fat and dosent want to tune well. Runs like three toed sloth that likes the sodomy not the pickled penguin i was hoping for.. but it started waking up responding to adjustments about a half tank into it .... then I thought I almost let out the factory smoke .... turned out the woodruff key sheared off. It was dark there was muffler sparklers and general puckering .... yes I degreased the taper ..... it looked like the taper on the flywheel was not contacting properly I could see a ring on the inboard side of the flywheel hub so I filed away at it untill it felt like the actual tapered portion was mating with the crank. Probibally ought to chooch it up and check the actual contact but woodruff keys are cheap so f it ..... and no I dident go buy that genu-weiner stihl bar just for this pinko commie saw .... actually ebayed that like 10 years ago for stupid cheep hell I don't have a harvester so that should tell you how cheep it was 75cm 83dl 404 .... I figure that should cover the stress testing portion as its gonna work this woman of questionable morals like a third world banana cabana show in the shady section of a tourist trap. Btw no shmooo escaping my chinko caps ......yet


----------



## Bedford T

i shoulda done a poll on who's sheared a key.


----------



## 67L36Driver

How about them compression releases.
This is number two on a 361.




Took it out forth with.


----------



## JimMorrison

Hilarious, and yes it is a commie pinko saw


----------



## 13TreeWorks

So yeah I tried the commie decomp and a oem one out of a 361..... turns out the commie for the 660 was weaker it was snapping shut half way through the first compression stroke team sauerkraut wins that one


----------



## davhul

Mine leaked like a sieve when I checked it under a pressure test. Not a fan of losing potential compression. I could lap it with some compound if I wanted to run the comp release


----------



## NElogger

davhul said:


> So how many huztl saws are running now?


I got mine running last week. Sheared off the woodruff key within about ten seconds, figure I didn't have it seated fully. It tuned pretty good, idles good and revs up good but as I said in a previous post it takes forever to idle back down. Haven't had time to look into that yet. Tested it out saturday while cutting firewood, ran it for about 30 minutes with no problems.


----------



## diezelsmoke

You might want to take a hammer/punch after the nut is tight and go around the flywheel next to the nut and then retighten again after.


----------



## 67L36Driver

13TreeWorks said:


> So yeah I tried the commie decomp and a oem one out of a 361..... turns out the commie for the 660 was weaker it was snapping shut half way through the first compression stroke team sauerkraut wins that one



Drill the bleed port(s) bigger.


----------



## davhul

How is everyone tightening the nut? I've built 2 and both with the timing advanced 8° which they liked. One has about 7 hours on it and the other has about 2 hours but it's down right now with a stripped adjuster. Should have went oem like I did I the first but I was giving it a try. Tomorrow it's getting fixed then it's headed back to the guy that cuts trees everyday. He's cut 88 pines with a few 461's with 36" bars. And he's was half way done Tuesday. So this 660 will be wearing a 36" W/ 33 RSLF chain. I sold it cheap because I have no idea how long it will last and he knows it's aftermarket. I feel if the crank will last then the bottom end is solid. That's why stihl last so long.


----------



## Dieseldash

diezelsmoke said:


> You might want to take a hammer/punch after the nut is tight and go around the flywheel next to the nut and then retighten again after.




Maybe just take the impact gun to it. I've got one of those small Milwaukee impact drivers that would cinch it up nice and tight


----------



## davhul

Dieseldash said:


> Maybe just take the impact gun to it. I've got one of those small Milwaukee impact drivers that would cinch it up nice and tight



That's what I do On mine. I have the clutch on and the drum off. I then have about 5 paint sticks cut about inch long sticking out around the clutch then lock the chain brake. I can then degree the timing without it moving and then hammer the nut with the a quick blip "a blip is about 1/3-.5 second" from my M18 Fuel that's 3/8". The key is filed almost in half and it doesn't shear.


----------



## davhul

oh yeah you will want a OE handle with a bar that heavy. I've all ready bent one so now I don't even use huztl's


----------



## trboxman

I use a 1/4" 12v cordless impact, spark plug installed, decomp plug installed without the clutch engaged. My key sheared because I used a screw on the case cover that was 1mm too long and contacted the fins on the flywheel. oops...


----------



## davhul

trboxman said:


> I use a 1/4" 12v cordless impact, spark plug installed, decomp plug installed without the clutch engaged. My key sheared because I used a screw on the case cover that was 1mm too long and contacted the fins on the flywheel. oops...



At least you found out what happened. And know it won't shear again


----------



## trboxman

Yep. Root cause is important for not doing stupid again...


----------



## davhul

Have you noticed the screws are packaged to where they go.


----------



## trboxman

Yep, they are, and in this instance I believe that it's the lack of the case cover bushing and my propensity to tighten things to the limit that allowed the right sized screw to be 1mm too long for the application...in other words I used the screws packaged for the case cover but chose to substitute a shorter one in it's place to keep a slight over tightening from creating the same condition again.


----------



## axeandwedge

NElogger said:


> I got mine running last week. Sheared off the woodruff key within about ten seconds, figure I didn't have it seated fully. It tuned pretty good, idles good and revs up good but as I said in a previous post it takes forever to idle back down. Haven't had time to look into that yet. Tested it out saturday while cutting firewood, ran it for about 30 minutes with no problems.


Try replacing the fuel pickup hose with an oem hose 
The Chinese one is N F G .

Sent from my HTC_0P6B using Tapatalk


----------



## tbohn

davhul said:


> View attachment 527592
> This is a new oem. The taper is right at 5/32" deep to the middle of the taper. Or A little less than 3/16. It's also almost half the depth of the hole. You really need a bar also to see if it fits right.


My new 660 kits that came in last week have the countersunk holes for the tapered bar studs in the cover. Too bad the bar studs are not the new tapered style. My first kit did not have the countersunk holes but did have the tapered bars. I like the tapered studs.



Also, the kits were all missing three 5mm nuts for the bumper spikes. The quality of the cylinders looked very good. No major casting blemishes only a little filing the smooth the ports out a little. The quality of the parts seem to be the same as my first kit-good.


----------



## davhul

That's good. On the next one when you put the piston on rotate the crank and make sure the piston doesn't hit the counter weights. Mine did


----------



## tbohn

The first one I built was with the 56mm bore. I went without a cylinder gasket. It is a bear (impossible) to start without the decomp. The next one is 54mm with cylinder gasket. Much easier the start. The third one will be 54mm without gasket if squish works. I pretty sure it will work.


----------



## Bedford T

so far 4 people have responded to the survey.
2 bought 1
1 bought more than 6
1 bought three


----------



## Donnie45

Bedford T said:


> so far 4 people have responded to the survey.
> 2 bought 1
> 1 bought more than 6
> 1 bought three



I voted in your poll, I built mine last fall (2015). 56mm big bore. Weimedog is right it is a beast.

Here it is. Only photo I had was when it was partially finished.


----------



## Bedford T

Ok. I was just reporting what Google said. Names are not important. Davhul asked a good question and I thought a poll would be cleaner in the thread to collect answers to the question. It's interesting to have an idea how many people are in our "club"

I sure there are more. Maybe more folks will take the survey in the coming days.

Here again is the link
https://goo.gl/forms/b80SfAkF9iHlaK0j2


----------



## davhul

tbohn said:


> The first one I built was with the 56mm bore. I went without a cylinder gasket. It is a bear (impossible) to start without the decomp. The next one is 54mm with cylinder gasket. Much easier the start. The third one will be 54mm without gasket if squish works. I pretty sure it will work.



I meant with the cylinder off. On my second kit the counter balance on the crank slightly hit the bottom of the piston at the bottom of the stroke.


----------



## Bedford T

You mean they are packaging them in a more organized manner? Did they have each pack labeled this time?



davhul said:


> Have you noticed the screws are packaged to where they go.


----------



## davhul

No they wasn't labeled but each pack went to the same general area of the saw. When I take a saw apart I usually have all my screws in a pile anyway.


----------



## weimedog

davhul said:


> I meant with the cylinder off. On my second kit the counter balance on the crank slightly hit the bottom of the piston at the bottom of the stroke.



I had a 54mm like that. A little die grinder (or file work) will fix it. That particular saw has a solid year of use on it from a young fellow using it to block firewood.

I have never had a keyway shear. I put my flywheel nut on with a "butter fly" air wrench. I just let it "rattle" for a second or two. Usually enough. Have no idea what the torque actually is.

And I always use an OEM decomp now. I would like to plug them, just with my 56mm I can't pull it over fast enough when its cold without the decomp.

It's had to have been said a few times:
Use the following OEM parts:
Chain Adjuster Assembly, ALL of it.
Clutch Drum (Oregon or something better than AM)
OEM Rubber Seals for Gas & Oil caps
I use OEM pulse lines
Also swapped to a Walbro on my 56mm versions.

Also with the 56mm ALWAYS use a gasket. Also I have had to "trim" the ID of those base gaskets on one as the ID was too small. Those 56mm cylinders are going to have a little free port issue, like .010. That's because a 56mm piston won't fit down into the case so they just made them shorter. You take out the gasket that's now a .030 free port and will begin to matter. And I always use my tried and true three bond to augment the base gasket. Haven't had any leak issue yet. But also haven't sheared any key ways yet! Maybe things have changed since last year.


----------



## davhul

weimedog said:


> I had a 54mm like that. A little die grinder (or file work) will fix it. That particular saw has a solid year of use on it from a young fellow using it to block firewood.
> 
> I have never had a keyway shear. I put my flywheel nut on with a "butter fly" air wrench. I just let it "rattle" for a second or two. Usually enough. Have no idea what the torque actually is.



That's what I did but haven't finished it yet to check the running. I had to go about .025 so I'm not sure if that'll cause and running problems. That would be about like lowering the intake right. I already lowered it some with base gasket removed. I may pull some timing #'s.


----------



## weimedog

davhul said:


> That's what I did but haven't finished it yet to check the running. I had to go about .025 so I'm not sure if that'll cause and running problems. That would be about like lowering the intake right. I already lowered it some with base gasket removed. I may pull some timing #'s.



Should be fine. Think about how much shorter a 56mm piston is! They run.


----------



## davhul

weimedog said:


> Should be fine. Think about how much shorter a 56mm piston is! They run.



True. I didn't go far enough that there's any free porting But it's close. I may have that irregular idle that the 56 has. I'll see


----------



## 13TreeWorks

Managed to get a full tank of cooch juice through the knock off today ..... that harvester bar and 404 don't seem to be slowing it down any ..... the carb has become more responsive to tuning was even starting to get pretty impressive till i ran out of fuel and daylight .... rat **** file job on the flywheel seems to be holding .... gonna take the decomp out and put the plug in it cuz decomp's are for pussies. Need oem fuel caps cuz it looks like Mr katchup paid that slut a visit.... doubt the handle or the bar studs will hold up to that heavy ass harvester bar much longer ....anyone do any milling with one yet I got a 52" Alaskan I was thinking of strapping it on. Oh and I advanced the timing a gwido gash hair seems to have woken it up given its dead fish performance yesterday


----------



## tbohn

davhul said:


> I meant with the cylinder off. On my second kit the counter balance on the crank slightly hit the bottom of the piston at the bottom of the stroke.


I will have to remember I check this out on the rest of them. My first one with the 56mm bore had clearance. I never checked the 54mm that I just finished. I did some cutting with the 54mm yesterday. It runs very good, starts easily, and has good power. I have not checked the squish but it's probably over .035" with the base gasket.

The first kit had a white emblem on the top cover that said "MS 660". That last batch of kits does not have an emblem.


----------



## 46 Poulan

tbohn said:


> Here are photos of the corroded 372 case if anyone is interested. I hope they make it good.


Wonder if it is alluminum or magnesium--fell off the deck----


----------



## davhul

Earlier test showed the 660 kit as MG. I think you can test with vinegar also. It Bubbles like peroxide on Magnesium is what welder told me


----------



## 46 Poulan

BTarb24 said:


> Here's the video of the quick burn test.



try propane torch on case--Dad taught industrial arts--In small engine class kids brought lawn mowers etc. to fix. Dad kept alot of leftover stuff--In those days had some mowers had magnesium frames- he broke up into small peices. as a kid we use to light them up--BLINDING----Fun--still have a gallon can full--We keep stuff--My grandad,dad,myself,my son--Its a family tradition!!


----------



## tbohn

davhul said:


> Earlier test showed the 660 kit as MG. I think you can test with vinegar also. It Bubbles like peroxide on Magnesium is what welder told me


The clutch cover is magnesium. This thread shows filings burning. Has anyone has tested the cases?


----------



## Ozhoo

The weight proves that it's a mag case as well. Weighs the same as oem +/- 2oz


----------



## tbohn

I put a couple of tanks through my second 660. It is 54mm with base gasket. The compression after assembly was about 155 psi and the squish was larger than my solder diameter (0.038 inch). After the first tank I adjusted the h to stop 4 stroking in the cut. It runs great. The saw did not get a good work out in the soft wood and I had to apply a lot of force to make to stop 4 stroking. I could not tell the difference in cutting compared to my 56mm with no base gasket. The 56mm runs well too.

I also had my Huztl 372 with 52mm bore, the Stihl 440 with a 52mm huztl P&C, a stock Stihl 362, and an Echo cs-400. All ran well. The Huztl 372 ran nice but the power wasn't impressive. The Stihl 440 with the Huztl kit seamed to have more umph. 

I used the Echo 400 for limbing. It is completely stock except the carb limiters fell off somehow. I really like the Echo for this job.

Say hello to my little friends!


----------



## weimedog

Try setting that 660 54mm at 13300/13400 no load. It worries me that you have no base gasket in the 56mm. Almost think you might get it to run better with that gasket. My 56mm is significantly stronger than the 54mm version. I do prefer the 54mm to live with though. Easier to start & restart. Smoother. less violent and easier to hang onto.


----------



## davhul

I would think the free porting would be more on the 56 W/O the gasket.


----------



## tbohn

weimedog said:


> Try setting that 660 54mm at 13300/13400 no load. It worries me that you have no base gasket in the 56mm. Almost think you might get it to run better with that gasket. My 56mm is significantly stronger than the 54mm version. I do prefer the 54mm to live with though. Easier to start & restart. Smoother. less violent and easier to hang onto.


I'm sure the 56mm is stronger. I just don't have any hardwood or large diameter stuff to make it shine above the 54mm. Violent is a good descriptor for the 56mm! It runs, idles and starts fine.


----------



## tbohn

davhul said:


> I would think the free porting would be more on the 56 W/O the gasket.


I do have freeport under the piston on the 56mm without the base gasket of 0.013 inch. It is crecent shaped so it is not a large area. The squish is 0.023 inch. I might try it with the base gasket after I finish the rest of my kits.

I'm thinking I will sell four of them on craigslist. I was thinking some people might want to buy a kit with the crankcase put together and they assemble the rest. Of course they will not be sold as Stihl chainsaws. Used Stihl 660's go for $600 or more in rough shape locally.


----------



## davhul

tbohn said:


> I do have freeport under the piston on the 56mm without the base gasket of 0.013 inch. It is crecent shaped so it is not a large area. The squish is 0.023 inch. I might try it with the base gasket after I finish the rest of my kits.
> 
> I'm thinking I will sell four of them on craigslist. I was thinking some people might want to buy a kit with the crankcase put together and they assemble the rest. Of course they will not be sold as Stihl chainsaws. Used Stihl 660's go for $600 or more in rough shape locally.



The gasket should be .5mm so you can calculate about what it would be. .013 isn't as bad as I was thinking.


----------



## tbohn

davhul said:


> That's good. On the next one when you put the piston on rotate the crank and make sure the piston doesn't hit the counter weights. Mine did


You're right on!! I'm putting my third one together and the piston skirt is interfering with the counterbalance lobes. It is so bad I can't rotated it past the interference by hand.


----------



## davhul

Must have been somthing with that last batch. My crank didn't have a slit on top like my first one


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## 13TreeWorks

Drat


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## tbohn

Well the third 660 (54mm without the base gasket) has 0.028" squish. Adding the base gasket would put the squish close to 0.048 inch. I'll run it tomorrow after the gasket cures (and it is light outside).


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## trboxman

Did you grind down the piston skirt?


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## tbohn

trboxman said:


> Did you grind down the piston skirt?


Yep. I just took off the edges where the crank contacted them.


----------



## Dobbs

What do you guys that have built Huztl 660 have in them total?


----------



## Ozhoo

Dobbs said:


> What do you guys that have built Huztl 660 have in them total?



Description Unit price
Shipping $98.89 USD
MS660 $186.00 USD
Subtotal $284.89 USD
Total $284.89 USD

Caber rings are a good idea as well as a decent decomp. Wrist pin bearing seems to be another better safe w/ oem item. So figure another 30 bucks or so in options.


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## Bedford T

Current ownership count


----------



## weimedog

This video won't stay up long, but there is a mix of 281/288/390/372 with a LOT of one particular MS660 of the HTSS 56mm kind noodling in here. SO a visual "update" of sorts...to those wanting to see these saws mixing in with others of similar size...and actually the 660 wasn't the focus or the reason this video was done, its the folks; but the job we were focusing on was big saw oriented and the 660 is my primary big saw right now. Just beginning to realize since its in the truck .. all the time, it dominates video time for now when big saws are selected for a task....has to change I think.

The MS660 was built in early 2015 BTW, Don't know if "Farmertec" has improved or updated any parts....this is the one with a little freeporting maybe .010in. Also on this saw the "no load" is just over 13K.

Again, One thing I need to point out is this 660 has a lot of video time simply because it's in my regular saw work rotation, like the 372 before it. Not really trying to push these its just what I've been using. That Husqvarna 281 might put it into retirement as I just like that saw as well and I'm due for a change. Also have a 576xp project nearing completion. That saw might be a contender to put the 660 into retirement.


----------



## Dobbs

Ozhoo said:


> Description Unit price
> Shipping $98.89 USD
> MS660 $186.00 USD
> Subtotal $284.89 USD
> Total $284.89 USD
> 
> Caber rings are a good idea as well as a decent decomp. Wrist pin bearing seems to be another better safe w/ oem item. So figure another 30 bucks or so in options.




Thanks 
Dave


----------



## cstair2000

Just built one and it runs great. Used my a-frame press to put the cases together. Only thing I replaced was the chain tensioner. Ordered another one with big bore kit and the MS361 with big bore kit. Too early to tell how long it will last. My wife is ready to kill me, got 7 saws and more on the way. Turning into a chainsaw junkie, cannot stop buying parts off eBay.
H E L P!!!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Bedford T

When you gift your wife a 361 kit for Christmas you will get extra points. Tell her it's meant to bring you closer.

Of course I am not married any longer and that could be why.


----------



## 13TreeWorks

Me oll lady ain't allowed In The garage. Not sure if it's because of the chainsaws or the hookers. Either way that's a no zone. I make sure I always come out greasy dirty and smelling like gas. She dosent want anything to do with anything garage now.


----------



## 67L36Driver

I gifted Blondie a pair of pipe wrenches for Mothers Day.
I replumbed the house so you could flush the toilet and not scald her in the shower.

I got a set of dishes for Fathers Day.[emoji56]


----------



## cstair2000

Anybody got the Stihl part number for MS660 chain tensioner? The one I got off net was 1125 007 1021. The spur gear in that one is 14.6mm fits my 361 but not the 660. The one in the 660 is 15.6mm.


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## Bedford T

1125 007 1021 is the number given on the ipl


----------



## cstair2000

Spur gear too small for FarmerTec Huztl MS660.


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## Bedford T

that may be because the manufacture did it wrong. buy the kit from someone else that is using the correct cast. the stihl part number is correct, just go to your stihl dealer kit is likely $10-15. others have used the stihl oem part and it worked perfectly. don't know what stihl region you are in but if you are in the northern part 13.49$ should do it


----------



## davhul

Well yesterday I noticed on my first kit the chain adjuster wasnt feeling smooth. I tore it down and found there is to much play in the groove for the gear with the threads so the two gears pushes apart to far and tries to strip. For a temp fix I shimmed it towards the gear with the screw driver slot for a tight fit then screw the metal hold down in place. It will probably last like that but I don't want to keep it rigged. Thinking about a small plastic sleeve cut in half. 
Someone with a bare case install the adjuster and move it back and forth and you can see the slack. I took my adjuster out of a oem 660 case


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## 67L36Driver

WTH. Seems like every time I belly up to my local parts counter it's $13.49.
Fuel line for MS361---13.50
Decomp valve---13.50


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## Bedford T

thats why the kits are attractive, 13.50 for a fuel line? gimme a break.


----------



## a. palmer jr.

Shouldn't the fuel line be included in the kit or be at least good enough to use? Why should you have to buy extra parts?


----------



## brandonstc6

a. palmer jr. said:


> Shouldn't the fuel line be included in the kit or be at least good enough to use? Why should you have to buy extra parts?



I haven't had problems with aftermarket fuel lines 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SeMoTony

cstair2000 said:


> Just built one and it runs great. Used my a-frame press to put the cases together. Only thing I replaced was the chain tensioner. Ordered another one with big bore kit and the MS361 with big bore kit. Too early to tell how long it will last. My wife is ready to kill me, got 7 saws and more on the way. Turning into a chainsaw junkie, cannot stop buying parts off eBay.
> H E L P!!!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


That HELP!!! wasn't understood by me. Is it you would like more help finding good deals or avoiding further CAD episodes??


----------



## tbohn

SeMoTony said:


> That HELP!!! wasn't understood by me. Is it you would like more help finding good deals or avoiding further CAD episodes??


...or help with the wife?


----------



## SeMoTony

tbohn said:


> ...or help with the wife?


I always miss something


----------



## SlurpJ

Hello all, new member here all because of this thread! I had stumbled across some Youtube vids of these being put together and ended up finding this thread and decided what the hell why not winter's coming up and it'll give me something to do and I'm always up for a challenge! I got the kit ordered yesterday and am doing my research to get anything else I need ordered before it arrives. Sounds like I should get an OEM chain adjuster, oil and fuel caps, probably Caber rings, anything else? Haven't decided if I'll try and heat and chill cases/crank or take it to work and use the press. Still debating the BB kit, worried about reliability and idling? Are there better BB kits other than Huztl? Don't want a finicky saw. Regardless of cylinder I will do some basic cleanup work to the ports, it's been awhile but I used to port motocross bikes back in the day. Anyways thank you to all for the great information and videos that have been shared, I would never have expected to be able to get into such a big saw for so much less than the real deal.


----------



## weimedog

SlurpJ said:


> Hello all, new member here all because of this thread! I had stumbled across some Youtube vids of these being put together and ended up finding this thread and decided what the hell why not winter's coming up and it'll give me something to do and I'm always up for a challenge! I got the kit ordered yesterday and am doing my research to get anything else I need ordered before it arrives. Sounds like I should get an OEM chain adjuster, oil and fuel caps, probably Caber rings, anything else? Haven't decided if I'll try and heat and chill cases/crank or take it to work and use the press. Still debating the BB kit, worried about reliability and idling? Are there better BB kits other than Huztl? Don't want a finicky saw. Regardless of cylinder I will do some basic cleanup work to the ports, it's been awhile but I used to port motocross bikes back in the day. Anyways thank you to all for the great information and videos that have been shared, I would never have expected to be able to get into such a big saw for so much less than the real deal.



Go with the 54mm version. Cheap to change to a better 56mm when they are available. 54's are easy to live with. A paint stripper heat gun is all u need for a heat source along with a lazer/non contact thermometer if u take that route. Me? I just use a press and be smart about where and how you stress things. get another pto side seal so you can pluck out the one that is already been installed. Folks seem to be boggled with that and it's real easy to pop the seal in after the cases r together. The intake and transfers will need some touch up.


----------



## SlurpJ

Good to know, thanks weimedog, your vids are the ones I accidentally stumbled upon that gave me the idea to go ahead and try this! I have the heat gun and NC thermometer so may give that a try, using the press at work may not be the ideal circumstances, very busy and not a good place to concentrate unless I go in on a weekend. I will probably visit the Stihl dealer this weekend, should I just order the OEM seal?


----------



## weimedog

SlurpJ said:


> Good to know, thanks weimedog, your vids are the ones I accidentally stumbled upon that gave me the idea to go ahead and try this! I have the heat gun and NC thermometer so may give that a try, using the press at work may not be the ideal circumstances, very busy and not a good place to concentrate unless I go in on a weekend. I will probably visit the Stihl dealer this weekend, should I just order the OEM seal?



Any thing OEM is an upgrade, especially seals so yes, a good idea. The press is a lot less effen around  prefer that approach on those 660's myself. But heat will help. Issue is the pro bearing is a nylon caged deal so have to get enough heat...to tap things. Don't thing you want enough to slide the bearing onto the crank. And remember the bearings and seals are pre installed ( I still think you might want to pop out the pto side )


----------



## 13TreeWorks

Oem Seals and wrist pin bearing ..... think I read about a 066 jug that was cast as a copy of a masterminded jug


----------



## weimedog

13TreeWorks said:


> Oem Seals and wrist pin bearing ..... think I read about a 066 jug that was cast as a copy of a masterminded jug


Never heard that one!


----------



## Rio95

Its this one here http://www.hlsproparts.com/Stihl-066-MS660-cylinder-kit-54mm-p/cp30066.htm. Cross Performance apparently got several builders to do cylinders for them and then cast them - see http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/its-2016-to-hell-with-porting.303562/ - Post 9 on.


----------



## SlurpJ

Rio95 said:


> Its this one here http://www.hlsproparts.com/Stihl-066-MS660-cylinder-kit-54mm-p/cp30066.htm. Cross Performance apparently got several builders to do cylinders for them and then cast them - see http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/its-2016-to-hell-with-porting.303562/ - Post 9 on.



Nikasil plated and comes with Caber rings! Little pricey, anyone got pics?


----------



## davhul

If it's on par with NWP and meteor as far as casting and chamfering but has better port #'s then that's a deal of a price.


----------



## davhul

@weimedog maybe you have some input. I put a oem chain adjuster in and gave the saw to my neighbor then a few days later he comes by with the adjuster stripped out. I figured he stressed on it tightening up the long bar. So I grabbed another and installed but this time I looked closely at it and the oem is a .004 smaller in diameter. A 064 066 and 660 use same adjuster but I wonder if the 088 is that much larger. I will order a 088 adjuster today to see. Anyone have any thoughts 

Huztl adjuster 





Ms660 adjuster


----------



## a. palmer jr.

davhul said:


> @weimedog maybe you have some input. I put a oem chain adjuster in and gave the saw to my neighbor then a few days later he comes by with the adjuster stripped out. I figured he stressed on it tightening up the long bar. So I grabbed another and installed but this time I looked closely at it and the oem is a .004 smaller in diameter. A 064 066 and 660 use same adjuster but I wonder if the 088 is that much larger. I will order a 088 adjuster today to see. Anyone have any thoughts
> 
> Huztl adjuster
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ms660 adjuster


 The only thought I have is that sometimes Chinese quality control isn't all that great. On a lot of stuff I've ordered I've had to modify it to fit. Most of it will work, however.


----------



## davhul

That's true but the oem won't work. With the oem being smaller it barley touches the other gear and any force causes it to bind and want to strip. Both my kits act the same


----------



## a. palmer jr.

That Huztl Stihl 660 is supposed to be an exact copy, or so I thought. Guess not.


----------



## davhul

That's the only part that oem didn't fit That I've seen. I'll try to post a vid tomorrow and show both installed


----------



## Ozhoo

Anyone see the Ch660 that sold yesterday on ebay? I would never have thought that it would bring that kind of money.


----------



## blsnelling

How many of these have had bad coils and/or carbs now?


----------



## davhul

Other than having a .062 jet. I drilled it to .072 the carb holds its tune so far. The other I put a walbro wj-76 on it with a .074


----------



## weimedog

I've had one bad carb, swapped it with another AM which worked pretty well, then again with a Walbro that also worked well. Not certain the Walbro was a huge improvement over the AM's when they worked. I have had no trouble with the OEM adjuster assembly complete out of a scrap 460 for almost 1.5 years. I replaced EVERY thing, all parts related; not just the gear. Have not seen a bad coil yet. Symptoms of what I considered a "bad" carb was it would not idle well. Constantly chasing a stable tune....swapped it out problem went away.


----------



## brandonstc6

@davhul I have some used oem 044/046 adjuster assemblies but it will be another week to week and a half before I can pull one. I have many junk crankcases. I am assuming they are the same. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## davhul

I to used the whole adjuster other than the metal and plastic cover. I compare them closely tomorrow and see what I come up with. I'll pull the one out of my 064 and check it. It's smooth as silk in it.


----------



## weimedog

Another observation/question. I see some had issues with shearing flywheel key ways...I haven't, going on dealing with 10 so far between mine and a couple of buds where I did the bottom end work for them. What's going on with that? I use an old cheapo "butterfly" air impact (One of those small ones with the rocker control on top.....not a power house!) to zip the flywheel nut on. I just grab the flywheel by hand (gloves please for those with un calloused hands..) let it rattle until it slows down. I have no idea what the torque is....but the flywheels haven't moved. Built the first early 2015, and a couple of mine have been "loaned" out for testing in real logging service. AND I do concede it is really easier to just buy a new pto side seal, pop the preinstalled one out and after pressing the case halves together put the seal in. Did one like that yesterday. No strain or pain. Just used a press & some tools I built that do what sockets used to do for me in that process.


----------



## blsnelling

I know from working on other people's saws that most screws are not properly tightened.


----------



## davhul

Ive put on flywheel nuts that way for years and used a butterfly. I now use my 3/8 M18 fuel for the convenience. In all the years I did snap one crank off at the nut on a br320. I did feel it snapped to easy like there could have been a flaw. But was my mistake. I had a spare so all was good except time. I still have it


----------



## davhul

On that engine the key sheared due to a leaking carb needle. When started the liquid fuel in the sump went up the transfers and hydro locked the piston then shearing the key.


----------



## blsnelling

Better than bending the rod!


----------



## cstair2000

Davhul does the ms880 spur gear a match for the Huztl 660? I have same problem on my two Huztl 660's. The Huztl spur gears are not made of hardened material, they are soft like aluminum. 


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## davhul

I'm not sure yet. I ordered it today and will be in Monday. I'm going to interrogate it more tomorrow with the oem gears again and video what's going on and see if anyone else has that issue


----------



## cstair2000

Looks like FarmerTec offset the spur gear for some reason or other. The earlier models matched Stihl sizes. All the rest of the chain adjuster parts match.


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## 67L36Driver

My 361 adjuster works. Kinda 'crunchy' but works.

If I build another I'll knock the burrs off with a Swiss pattern file.


----------



## cstair2000

I have a Huztl 361 I have not put together yet. I will compare spur gears with my Stihl Ms361 tomorrow.


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## Ozhoo

Those with problems, did you remember the o-ring behind the gear?


----------



## cstair2000

Yes, problem is Huztl spur gear is right for spot but cannot be replace with smaller Stihl spur gear. Stihl gear barley makes contact with chain adjuster gear.


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## davhul

That's what I ran into. But I was in a hurry and just put my spare huztl in for him and said be careful til I know what's going on.


----------



## SlurpJ

Ozhoo said:


> Anyone see the Ch660 that sold yesterday on ebay? I would never have thought that it would bring that kind of money.


Looks like he's from my hometown too.


----------



## trboxman

weimedog said:


> Another observation/question. I see some had issues with shearing flywheel key ways...I haven't, going on dealing with 10 so far between mine and a couple of buds where I did the bottom end work for them. What's going on with that?



I sheared one because the plastic cover screw right at the top apex of the flywheel can be tightened enough to directly impinge on the flywheel, not a lot of clearance there, now I use one of the short screws for the topmost AV bushing (the one that bolts to the case with two short screws) to replace that one cover screw, it's short enough that it will never impinge on the flywheel.


----------



## Ozhoo

The Piltz Boyz sure are trying to cash in on them. I'm surprised that the Stihl clan hasn't descended from their lofty heights to put a stop to it.


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## blsnelling

Ozhoo said:


> The Piltz Boyz sure are trying to cash in on them. I'm surprised that the Stihl clan hasn't descended from their lofty heights to put a stop to it.


What a hack!


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## davhul

And $100 shipping. A good oem used one goes for $650. Hell naw


----------



## weimedog

Ozhoo said:


> The Piltz Boyz sure are trying to cash in on them. I'm surprised that the Stihl clan hasn't descended from their lofty heights to put a stop to it.



Maybe because there isn't a lot of reason to buy a $300 dollar kit, not even a built saw; with no dealer or factory support for $800 including shipping? Who would buy that package at that price? Sort of wish Stihl would do what Husqvarna did and get the price points for top ends right and sell right into these AM saw builds. Would help keep those older 066-MS660's a viable option. I personally object to the concept of selling these kits as complete saws into the general marketplace. A lot of reasons why. Not going to post a book. Conversely the concept of grabbing a pile of parts for a saw puzzle is a lot of fun be it AM or some blend with OEM as a starting point. A great opportunity to learn a class of saw as well. I never would have even considered a orange & white saw option because I have so many Husqvarna/Jonsered options..no reason to. But originally having to fix log and skidder "crushed" Stihl's opened the door to seeing the totality of these parts and it didn't take long to ask the question....is there enough AM parts to build a clone? Originally for me it was simply to test then prove its ok to consider them in a pinch as I didn't have a source of Stihl parts to support a few logger friends. Now a couple of years later I am a total fan of the old now obsolete Stihl 064-MS660 saw series. Plan to show true German iron I've added to the collection and later I will show in subsequent video's I've gone to adding more OEM content and better quality content on things like clutch assemblies, ignitions, carbs. Simply because now these parts pile saws I had put together a couple of years back have become an integral part of my operation. Much to the chagrin of some in my circles...


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## davhul

Ok this is what's going on with the chain adjuster on my 3 kits. The slot that the screw gear sits in is to large so it has slop and pushes away from the adjustment gear and strips. This is comparing it to my 1989 064 so it might be worn a little more than a new 660. On my 064 the clearance of play is .004 
The huztl is the width of my small snap on screw driver .050 hence the reason for the larger gear. I hope the 088 gear will do it because if not I might drill and pin it tighter with a hardened pin. Not sure yet.


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## SlurpJ

When you guys are ordering the OEM chain adjuster which pieces are you replacing. Not sure which numbers I need to order here.


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## davhul

13,15. You can try it but it's not working out on mine. Maybe you'll be lucky


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## SlurpJ

OK thanks. Maybe I'll wait and check out the Huztl piece before ordering an OEM. Just checked and my order has shipped! Hopefully it doesn't take too long to get here.


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## davhul

Is that the only pieces you need to start back cutting?


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## SeMoTony

weimedog said:


> Maybe because there isn't a lot of reason to buy a $300 dollar kit, not even a built saw; with no dealer or factory support for $800 including shipping? Who would buy that package at that price? Sort of wish Stihl would do what Husqvarna did and get the price points for top ends right and sell right into these AM saw builds. Would help keep those older 066-MS660's a viable option. I personally object to the concept of selling these kits as complete saws into the general marketplace. A lot of reasons why. Not going to post a book. Conversely the concept of grabbing a pile of parts for a saw puzzle is a lot of fun be it AM or some blend with OEM as a starting point. A great opportunity to learn a class of saw as well. I never would have even considered a orange & white saw option because I have so many Husqvarna/Jonsered options..no reason to. But originally having to fix log and skidder "crushed" Stihl's opened the door to seeing the totality of these parts and it didn't take long to ask the question....is there enough AM parts to build a clone? Originally for me it was simply to test then prove its ok to consider them in a pinch as I didn't have a source of Stihl parts to support a few logger friends. Now a couple of years later I am a total fan of the old now obsolete Stihl 064-MS660 saw series. Plan to show true German iron I've added to the collection and later I will show in subsequent video's I've gone to adding more OEM content and better quality content on things like clutch assemblies, ignitions, carbs. Simply because now these parts pile saws I ha d & together a couple of years back have become an integral part of my operation. Much to the chagrin of some in my circles...


Grabbing a pile of parts......or opening bid of $5 on 064 disassembled by one who has unsure of what to do once got to the point crankase w/piston sticking out. original parts no B&C or brake handle .....box o parts need to rebuild for my own education,enjoyment,use & it's a saw size I'd not buy complete since the 046-ms 460 &066 really don't need a4th saw in betweener.


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## weimedog

Todays project:


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## davhul

Nice. You must have some big plans for it to pull a 9 pin


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## cstair2000

Is that a 56mm? I just finished mine but the carb crapped out after a few minutes of cutting. Had to shave the bottom of chain break handle to clear muffler.



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## weimedog

davhul said:


> Nice. You must have some big plans for it to pull a 9 pin


Preliminary results are good, pulled it easily in 18inch maple. Has a "New version" 56mm top end. ( I like the old version better like are on my 56mm saws I build last year and the year before & are in the video's. Old version had more meat around the transfers and better casting/machining around the intake ) But continuing the Intake is widened, but the intake timing isn't changed as its pretty aggressive as delivered. Exhaust widened and raised a couple of degrees. With the free port issue on those I couldn't drop the cylinder much. Has that intake from definitive Dave, essentially an old fashioned intake horn. Muffler is gutted & outlet x-sectional area equals about 90percent of the exhaust port. Set no load at 13,500 because its happy there according to the sparkplug. SO we will see if its lasts. Its pretty snappy. And really loud. Might see if it responds to a little more advance on the ignition timing and after that maybe a finger port concept adding x-section to the transfers to let it rev a littler more.....but its not bad for a $400 dollar project! Bet its got more power than any other $400 dollar option out there!


----------



## dce1843

weimedog said:


> Preliminary results are good, pulled it easily in 18inch maple. Has a "New version" 56mm top end. ( I like the old version better like are on my 56mm saws I build last year and the year before & are in the video's. Old version had more meat around the transfers and better casting/machining around the intake ) But continuing the Intake is widened, but the intake timing isn't changed as its pretty aggressive as delivered. Exhaust widened and raised a couple of degrees. With the free port issue on those I couldn't drop the cylinder much. Has that intake from definitive Dave, essentially an old fashioned intake horn. Muffler is gutted & outlet x-sectional area equals about 90percent of the exhaust port. Set no load at 13,500 because its happy there according to the sparkplug. SO we will see if its lasts. Its pretty snappy. And really loud. Might see if it responds to a little more advance on the ignition timing and after that maybe a finger port concept adding x-section to the transfers to let it rev a littler more.....but its not bad for a $400 dollar project! Bet its got more power than any other $400 dollar option out there!


I think we need a video lol


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## dce1843

So all in all what do yal think about the huztl kits? I'm thinking seriously about ordering one on payday. Would like to do the 372 but from the previous post says the quality of them is not as good as the 660 kits even though they have there share of issues. I've never built a saw from scratch . Which one would be easier to learn on?


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## 67L36Driver

dce1843 said:


> So all in all what do yal think about the huztl kits? I'm thinking seriously about ordering one on payday. Would like to do the 372 but from the previous post says the quality of them is not as good as the 660 kits even though they have there share of issues. I've never built a saw from scratch . Which one would be easier to learn on?



MS360.


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## 13TreeWorks

Well I've gone through my 260 360 440 complete tare down and rebuild from the crank up and built a 660 kit as well ...... pick whatever flavor you want the stihls are all about the same just bigger or smaller ...... the 361 is by far my fav saw it handles 90% of the ground work


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## jackjcc

I've only run a 362, very impressed by it. But the 361 is twice as complicated as the 360. Good lord. 


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## frag-88

It is necessary to wear a chain and fill fuel and oil.
And to go into the woods ... BRUUUUUMMMMMMMMM .....


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## blsnelling

If you think a 361 is complicated, don't ever get near a 441!


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## 13TreeWorks

I guess I'm missing something ..... I dident really think the 361 was complicated no more than any other stihl pro saw


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## weimedog

Might be they are looking at the difference between the older saws like the 390, 046, 066 even MS460, MS660 vs. the "1's" like 391, 461, 661. The 441 reminds me of a cross between a Husqvarna and Stihl..... a mish mash but I like them.


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## 13TreeWorks

390 would be totally different being a happy homeowner peice. But could someone please explain what makes the 361 so different from the other pro series ???


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## davhul

441 had some pretty bad problems when used everyday on a logging outfit. Not everyone did but enough to pull the model


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## davhul

The 880 adjuster gear came in today. I don't have my case with me but it looks promising. 
880





Huztl


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## 67L36Driver

13TreeWorks said:


> 390 would be totally different being a happy homeowner peice. But could someone please explain what makes the 361 so different from the other pro series ???



Just the 361 has a 'secret handshake' to get the bottom front isolator stuffed on place.

Other than that, no other real problems.


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## weimedog

Love those old bullet proof 390's, (and that entire era of Stihl's) even though they are classified as homeowner, I've seen more than a few as "skidder" saws. Their rubber doughnut anti vibe allows a rod style "old school" Stihl throttle/choke/on off switch arrangement. The Husqvarna style "spring" anti vib system on the 391 and new saws had Stihl go to these goofy throttle deals where its like a rotating rod pushing on the throttle linkage... and the saw end of that throttle rod sits in a plastic bearing surface.....:0 Had a guy come in who was using one in his operation complaining it had lost power....and it was only a year old! I found that throttle deal had worn right into the plastic so it couldn't get to full throttle.  I took a roll pin with a large enough ID and did a little die grind work & epoxied it into that ruined plastic. I believe it's still making chips as I never heard more about it. I don't know what other new Stihl models have that same throttle arraignment, but I made an edict....only taking on new saws I'm familiar with. All others I will tell the guy bring it back to the dealer...its a hobby for me and I don't want the head aches.


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## weimedog

davhul said:


> The 880 adjuster gear came in today. I don't have my case with me but it looks promising.
> 880
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Huztl



I HOPE that will retro! I have one right now with the Chinese adjuster I expected and it does have issues. If that's yet a better solution than just going OEM 660, that's a very good thing to know! I'll buy 6 of those gears right now.


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## 67L36Driver

I think the main problem is the Chinese just throw something in the box if it looks the same as the correct part.[emoji849]


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## weimedog

67L36Driver said:


> I think the main problem is the Chinese just throw something in the box if it looks the same as the correct part.[emoji849]


What I want to see is a couple of pics of that 1967 Vette, maybe a video.


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## davhul

weimedog said:


> I HOPE that will retro! I have one right now with the Chinese adjuster I expected and it does have issues. If that's yet a better solution than just going OEM 660, that's a very good thing to know! I'll buy 6 of those gears right now.



I might run home when I take my lunch and grab my case. The OE 660 wouldn't work for me it would bind and try and strip. Thing is if it does work I will need to use the 660 and and the 880 kit. The other gear is to large in the 880 kit and can't be bought Separate.


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## weimedog

davhul said:


> I might run home when I take my lunch and grab my case. The OE 660 wouldn't work for me it would bind and try and strip. Thing is if it does work I will need to use the 660 and and the 880 kit. The other gear is to large in the 880 kit and can't be bought Separate.



The pitch looks pretty close. Maybe some machine work on the gear in the pic to cut it down might e another approach? Or is the diameter just too large.


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## weimedog

I would like to figure a way to even use the AM stuff....certainly have enough of them around! Maybe shim the slot in the case? Take a "nut" & cut it way down to shim the one side, grind the threads out to a smooth "curved" bearing surface & epoxy it in? Stuck together a saw this weekend for a "bling" saw...fun and games. Only have the Chinese adjusters & would like to come up with a solution for that stuff too...if its even possible.


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## tbohn

I've built 6 Huztl 660's and have one more waiting for a Huztl 56mm P&C to finish it off. I have also put together a Huztl 365/372 parts kit with a BB cylinder on it. I found the 660's much easier to work on and better quality than the 365/372. A couple of saws have a few tanks through them in wood and the others have just been broken in not in wood. I have other OEM Stihl (440, 044, 361, 362) and Husqvarna (365, 575) and the Huztl kits perform quite well against OEM. I have used all aftermarket parts on the saws. All of the saws except one 54mm 660 do not have a base gasket on the cylinder.

I really enjoy building these saws. I do touch up the ports just to remove casting boogers. The chain adjusters are not the greatest but they do work well enough if you are careful. I do grease them well and work them from one end to the other during the install. I find that the throttle linkage binds in the little rubber boot it travel through until a lube it. The high idle position on the ignition / choke level does not seem to do anything on my 660 kits. Some of my kits came with tapered bar studs and some came with non-tapered. The non-tapered have a very narrow step where the bar sits and I find it difficult to keep the bar in position when tightening the nuts.

All of my cases were assembled with heat on the cases and frozen cranks. I evolved to preheating the oven to 270F and then setting the case halves in for 20 minutes. Most of the cranks when it with very little force. I used the case bolts to pull the case halves together. I also left the crank seals in place when I assembled. I made sure to turn the crank as the halves went together. All the kits had the three M5 nuts missing for the bumper spikes. I also had two carbs that arrived with bent high adjuster screws. There has been a couple other missing pieces that Huztl replaced or sent me after I pointed them out. It does take a few weeks to get the replacement parts.

I am looking for other kits to assemble now. I have a Stihl OEM 361, 034, 362 and Husqvarna OEM 365, 575. I have done my share of rebuilds on toasted top ends and I always keep my eyes open for more.

Does anyone know other options for build kit saws?


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## davhul

The 880 gear in the last pic has larger threads and gear. I'll lay it in there just in case but I'm pretty sure I'll use the the 660 screw gear and 880 spur gear. 
I have another idea on maybe making the OE 660 kit work but would be drilling a 1/16 or smaller hole for a hardened pin. But that's last resort.


----------



## weimedog

"Bling saw"


----------



## davhul

Ok the 880 gear is a little to large by a few thousands. So I scrapped that idea and Instead I made some bushings with the inside and outside diameter that I needed to use the OE gears and cut them 2.5mm long


----------



## weimedog

Very nice.


----------



## SlurpJ

That's pretty impressive for a budget build! I'll have to look into that intake kit. If it were me I would look into running a shorter K&N style filter, a lot sturdier and you can get them in any ID/OD and length you could ever imagine. Pretty cheap on Amazon or Ebay thanks to the Chinese! I run them on all my 2 stroke bikes and quads. You can get or make a foam pre filter as well. Could probably even gut the stock housing and make it work.


----------



## SlurpJ

Any details on how you made the bushing?


----------



## davhul

I used this size brass tubing. I ended up making about 10 but I don't need but 3 so I'm good on them for a while. If ever



The fit is about a exact fit. I'm not sure why the casting is so wrong on this part and was never corrected. I guess you can call this the first 
TSB-Huztl660-001 do it your self update. I'm going to do the update to the two saws being used in the next week.


----------



## weimedog

.074 Jet thru dssjms :
http://www.ebay.com/itm/222039380149?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

Tubing for bushing:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/191736983612?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT


----------



## davhul

That's a good point. The jet in the carb is small at .062 
I replaced one jet and drilled the other with drill index bits. The Bigger jet keeps your adjustment in the optimal 7/8-1 1/4 out.


----------



## frag-88

And I picked it up LEGO. Honestly, I did not expect such good quality parts ...
The remains of many rubber products (put in duplicate).
The only thing that put OEM - Piston bearing (were bad cases of the bearing 372). Much of the information acquired from the channel afleetcommand. Thank weimedog.
Assembled with 56mm cylinder, cylinder gasket 0.5 mm. Freeport is practically no. Slightly modified muffler. Install used husqvarna decomp. The bar cover had drilled holes for studs drill 12 mm.
Run it, but without bar (dark early). Tomorrow I will try to make a video of cutting


----------



## davhul

I see you need to install the bucking spike on the side cover. Then you can bolt that chain catcher to it. Then the pin just slides in the other spike where you have it bolted


----------



## davhul

And if you ever want remove the whole muffler baffle just drill the 8 spot welds from the inside. Just drill through the baffle. Be carful not to drill all the way through the muffler


----------



## blsnelling

SlurpJ said:


> That's pretty impressive for a budget build! I'll have to look into that intake kit. If it were me I would look into running a shorter K&N style filter, a lot sturdier and you can get them in any ID/OD and length you could ever imagine. Pretty cheap on Amazon or Ebay thanks to the Chinese! I run them on all my 2 stroke bikes and quads. You can get or make a foam pre filter as well. Could probably even gut the stock housing and make it work.


You'll have fun cleaning saw dust and chips out of that filter.


----------



## davhul

I don't like K&N in my personal off road racing experience. Think about it. Air doesn't flow through oil it has to find a hole in the cotton Gauze and the oil suppose to catch the debris. But some makes it through


----------



## trboxman

blsnelling said:


> You'll have fun cleaning saw dust and chips out of that filter.



That's not how *I'd* define fun...but we're each different in our definitions...


----------



## SlurpJ

blsnelling said:


> You'll have fun cleaning saw dust and chips out of that filter.


I mentioned running a pre filter similar to this. Wouldn't even think about it without one. Pull the pre filter off, shake it out blow it out put it back on and you're good to go. That long foam filter looks like it could be easy to catch and rip and you could be running it and not even know. I keep picturing the property I just purchased with about 20 acres that's so overgrown and full of thorn bushes I can barely even walk through, I know I'd take out that filter hiking in! I would definitely need something sturdier, I'm sure I'll never get around to building a saw that hot so I guess I don't have to worry about it. Love that saw though!


----------



## blsnelling

SlurpJ said:


> I mentioned running a pre filter similar to this. Wouldn't even think about it without one. Pull the pre filter off, shake it out blow it out put it back on and you're good to go. That long foam filter looks like it could be easy to catch and rip and you could be running it and not even know. I keep picturing the property I just purchased with about 20 acres that's so overgrown and full of thorn bushes I can barely even walk through, I know I'd take out that filter hiking in! I would definitely need something sturdier, I'm sure I'll never get around to building a saw that hot so I guess I don't have to worry about it. Love that saw though!


I've used Outerwears before. A pre-filter like that will make a big difference. I have to ask though. Why not run an OEM filter?


----------



## davhul

http://www.hlsproparts.com/mobile/Product.aspx?ProductCode=H51066


----------



## SlurpJ

davhul said:


> http://www.hlsproparts.com/mobile/Product.aspx?ProductCode=H51066


Thank you! I was about to ask what the best option for a stock style air filter was.


----------



## davhul

No problem. I personally haven't got one "yet" but it's hard to beat foam for flow and easy to clean. You can defiantly build a saw like that. The cylinders are cheap so get a extra and play with it. Just read a lot on porting and keep notes on what to and not to do. Really a muffler mod and timing advance is all most need


----------



## SlurpJ

davhul said:


> No problem. I personally haven't got one "yet" but it's hard to beat foam for flow and easy to clean. You can defiantly build a saw like that. The cylinders are cheap so get a extra and play with it. Just read a lot on porting and keep notes on what to and not to do. Really a muffler mod and timing advance is all most need


I'm already thinking about picking up a couple cylinders to play with, probably a 56mm too, they're definitely cheap. I've ported a dozen or so 2 stroke bikes and quads so I'm aware of how much can be gained and the general idea. Was actually shown how by the guy who runs the local motocross shop. Already done plenty of muffler mods on other saws so that's nothing new. Haven't had time to look into the timing advance yet but need to. Just checked and my order has cleared customs so it should be here soon! I can already see a few more of these in my future.


----------



## davhul

Timing seems to wake it up and makes its little snappier. around .020 off the key is about 7° of timing from what I got. A wheel is preferred but not needed on that mod. The oem has to run the timing lower as they know people will run cheap old mix.


----------



## SlurpJ

I used to have a motion pro degree wheel but not sure if it's around still. It's been awhile. What are you using to shave that .020" off, I have access to a mill but if there's a easier way I would try that first. I don't have the kit here yet so not sure which side you're taking it off from?


----------



## davhul

A file and a pair of vise grips and micrometer. I put the key on the crank then mark it with a marker because there's no need to shave the part of the key that inserts into the crank. The flywheel turns counter clockwise so insert the shaved key so that your advancing the timing not retarding. I lock the crank down on the clutch side and hold the flywheel so it won't turn while I tighten and I mean tighten but don't go crazy. There's several ways to do it 
Theirs other problems I've found but haven't posted about yet.


----------



## frag-88

Enjoy music...


----------



## weimedog

frag-88 said:


> Enjoy music...



Push on that saw!


----------



## blsnelling

frag-88 said:


> Enjoy music...



Sounds great.


----------



## davhul

Just seen he's in Russia. The letters on that building had me baffled for a minute


----------



## frag-88

davhul said:


> Just seen he's in Russia. The letters on that building had me baffled for a minute


On the building opposite the car wash written)))


----------



## Andyshine77

Looks like a good running saw, and yes it almost sounds like a saw.[emoji6]


----------



## SlurpJ

My kit arrived today! Ordered 11/30 and it arrived 12/8 so pretty quick really. Got a text telling me it was delivered so I ran home for lunch to check it out.




For the most part everything looked good. Parts were packaged well. Parts look like pretty good quality. I did find one issue that I'm not to happy about. The cylinder was packaged on top of the cases. This scratched everything up quite a bit. I could almost live with that but there appears to be a problem with the paint itself, it's flaking off in multiple spots. The red is shipping damage and the yellow is where the paints flaking off.










There are a lot of paint chips floating around inside the cases as well. Overall the quality of paint seems to be pretty bad, almost like maybe it was a bad batch. Anyone else have this issue? I will try and contact Huztl for a replacement. If t's already coming off I could just imagine what it would be like after actually using the saw.


----------



## davhul

I can tell you their going to respond around 3am eastern time. And they are going to offer you a slight refund first. But if you want replacements you might have to be persistent about it. I had a cracked case and that was my dealings.


----------



## tbohn

SlurpJ said:


> My kit arrived today! Ordered 11/30 and it arrived 12/8 so pretty quick really. Got a text telling me it was delivered so I ran home for lunch to check it out.
> 
> View attachment 542148
> 
> 
> For the most part everything looked good. Parts were packaged well. Parts look like pretty good quality. I did find one issue that I'm not to happy about. The cylinder was packaged on top of the cases. This scratched everything up quite a bit. I could almost live with that but there appears to be a problem with the paint itself, it's flaking off in multiple spots. The red is shipping damage and the yellow is where the paints flaking off.
> 
> View attachment 542151
> 
> 
> View attachment 542153
> 
> 
> View attachment 542154
> 
> 
> There are a lot of paint chips floating around inside the cases as well. Overall the quality of paint seems to be pretty bad, almost like maybe it was a bad batch. Anyone else have this issue? I will try and contact Huztl for a replacement. If t's already coming off I could just imagine what it would be like after actually using the saw.


I have put together 7 kits. The extent of my paint issues consisted of maybe a small chip in the paint on one of two of them from shipping.


----------



## SlurpJ

davhul said:


> I can tell you their going to respond around 3am eastern time. And they are going to offer you a slight refund first. But if you want replacements you might have to be persistent about it. I had a cracked case and that was my dealings.


If I remember correctly people were having the best results getting ahold of them through ebay?


----------



## davhul

[email protected]


----------



## davhul

And my sweet lady's name was Lynn. She wrote 
Oh Dear Sir,
Sorry for my delay reply. I get back to the office today.
Today the logistics company is on duty, and we will arrange to send out your order ***** within these two days.
Sincerelly hope you could understand.
Good day.

Best regards,
Lynn


----------



## SlurpJ

Well after looking at it further I don't think I can blame Huztl for the paint issues. It definitely looks like there was some shipping damage. Box looked fine from the outside but not so much inside.







Bearing's destroyed out of the package. Is the OEM part plastic as well?
Lots of other parts scratched up but nothing that effects the saw actually running so not concerned there.






Definitely going to need a new case. Not sure whose fault this would be. Will be contacting Huztl for a replacement, or at the very least to let them know they need foam or something in their boxes.

Good news is I got the intake and exhaust ported and muffler port matched. I was kind of disappointed with the casting at first but went ahead anyways. Now that it's done it's night and day difference. There's plenty of meat there that can be trimmed off without messing with timing or anything. Now I need to hit the transfer ports but will need to go to the store and find some bits for that.


----------



## trboxman

SlurpJ said:


> *Well after looking at it further I don't think I can blame Huztl for the paint issues. It definitely looks like there was some shipping damage. Box looked fine from the outside but not so much inside.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bearing's destroyed out of the package. Is the OEM part plastic as well?
> Lots of other parts scratched up but nothing that effects the saw actually running so not concerned there.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Definitely going to need a new case. Not sure whose fault this would be. Will be contacting Huztl for a replacement, or at the very least to let them know they need foam or something in their boxes.
> 
> Good news is I got the intake and exhaust ported and muffler port matched. I was kind of disappointed with the casting at first but went ahead anyways. Now that it's done it's night and day difference. There's plenty of meat there that can be trimmed off without messing with timing or anything. Now I need to hit the transfer ports but will need to go to the store and find some bits for that.



That's absolutely Huztl's fault, their packing is craptastic.


----------



## davhul

Pics didn't work for me. In the last one I did porting on I had about 3 hours doing it. A lot of material needed to be taken off mine. My squish is a .021 and timing 7-8°. I hope the cheap bearings last. Ive have it half way built for 2weeks Ive got busy. There's many different levels of porting. I consider this a half port job. I didn't change the timing or cut the squish band.


----------



## blsnelling

Pics aren't working.


----------



## weimedog

davhul said:


> Pics didn't work for me. In the last one I did porting on I had about 3 hours doing it. A lot of material needed to be taken off mine. My squish is a .021 and timing 7-8°. I hope the cheap bearings last. Ive have it half way built for 2weeks Ive got busy. There's many different levels of porting. I consider this a half port job. I didn't change the timing or cut the squish band.



Bet those bearings do fine. That crank and bottom end as designed by Stihl is one of many reasons that saw design has lasted the test of time in OEM form and does as well as these have in Clone form..my personal preference is steel caged bearings, mine have come through with steel caged on the flywheel side and nylon on the PTO side. Haven't seen an issue yet though with the bearings that came from Huztl.


----------



## SlurpJ

The broken bearing I have is for the clutch drum. I looked again and it is definitely plastic. Anyone use one with success? Will probably order a actual steel Hymar online. While I'm at it are the Caber rings worth ordering? I'm leaning towards the ones that came with since the whole P & C is disposable at that price, although there's some time wrapped up porting but that's half the fun. On the subject of porting does anyone have any pics of what you did to the transfer ports?? I am getting ready to do those but their different than what I am used to seeing on a bike. Can the lower ports be blended towards the base gasket, which would essentially lower the port?


----------



## davhul

Several built with the rings it came with at $15 I went with cabers. I blended the lowers to about a 1/4 - 3/8" from the base. That wouldnt lower the port any. May add a little volume. I thought I had a pic but I dont. Found where I opened and smoothed out the piston


----------



## SlurpJ

Ha I got a kick out of this email from Huztl! Wonder if they're using Google translate or something. I'll keep bugging them until I get a replacement. If I had to buy it their website shows it cheaper to buy the entire engine than just the cases.

Dear sir,
Thanks for your photos.
Sorry for this situation. We have confirmed with our worker and they said that it may be broken in the way of transportation because they
checked the parts before sending it out. And we also ask our technician and this could not affect its using. 
We understand this may affect your mood in this problem, but we hope you can trust us. We have sold plenty of chainsaw parts and complete 
chainsaws in our business and we have met many kinds of problem. If we don't have confidence, we won't promise you that those factors 
won't affect using. To cheat you is absolutely no good to us. 

And we would like to refund you $20.00 to make up it, is that ok for you. Since we promise you the warranty, if you have any problem in future using, 
you can always contact us for help. We will do our best to help you. We do our business over 15 years and we are responsible and experienced seller.
Waiting for your reply.


----------



## davhul

I would rather put the case together my self. I doubt they take the time to relieve side load off the bearings before the seals are installed. I can picture them being slapped together as fast as possible.


----------



## SlurpJ

How much back and forth is it going to take to get this issue resolved? I'm actually very happy with the parts so far, I feel the issue I'm facing is probably a pretty isolated incident. Hopefully they correct it as I don't want to spend more $ I was hoping to see how much bang for the buck I could get for $500! If they do correct it I would definitely be doing more business with them. I'm not even upset about the broken clutch bearing, that just showed an opportunity for improvement.

On a fun note I found a good motor, only costs a few bucks!!


----------



## SlurpJ

Well I got bored. Should look good after I take it in to work and get it powder coated.


----------



## EB Saw

I am going to be getting the Husky 372 kit in the next few weeks from them, Ill make a new thread of the build. Just something fun to do and would hopefully turn out good. I will be attempting to do some porting and mm to it as well.


----------



## SlurpJ

Doesn't look too bad after powder coat. Not a perfect match but it was free so you can't beat the price!




Also got a tracking # for the replacement case today. It took a couple emails of me basically saying 'hey you need to send me this' but all in all pretty good customer service. I imagine there are plenty of places overseas that wouldn't even give you a response.

How good is the oiler on these? Is it worth it to upgrade to the high output oiler or change the 2 pieces to make it H.O. now while it's apart?


----------



## jackjcc

SlurpJ said:


> Doesn't look too bad after powder coat. Not a perfect match but it was free so you can't beat the price!
> View attachment 543366
> 
> 
> 
> Also got a tracking # for the replacement case today. It took a couple emails of me basically saying 'hey you need to send me this' but all in all pretty good customer service. I imagine there are plenty of places overseas that wouldn't even give you a response.
> 
> How good is the oiler on these? Is it worth it to upgrade to the high output oiler or change the 2 pieces to make it H.O. now while it's apart?



If you plan to run a big bar, 32-36, I would recommend it. I run 28" on my OEM 660 and I don't think it's enough. It has the standard oiler. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## EB Saw

Those felling dogs look sick!! good job


----------



## SlurpJ

I was planning on running a 28" bar and possibly something bigger for occasional milling, which is what got me thinking about the oiler. Or if I feel like these Huztl's are of good enough quality to last a while I could see building another dedicated to milling. Nothing hardcore just some weekend warrior type stuff.


----------



## bikemike

Build up a saw. Port it, pipe it, run lots of oil and then some, ad a nitrous kit, make a vid. If you have the money to piss away might as well make a good show of it.


----------



## davhul

SlurpJ said:


> I was planning on running a 28" bar and possibly something bigger for occasional milling, which is what got me thinking about the oiler. Or if I feel like these Huztl's are of good enough quality to last a while I could see building another dedicated to milling. Nothing hardcore just some weekend warrior type stuff.



If your going to try milling. Mod the oiler, remove the muffler baffle, run a good oil at 32:1 tuned on the fat side and see how long she last. Milling is hard on the whole saw so I would like to see this test. I've wondered about how strong the rotating assy is and that would defiantly stress on it. Others my add some more things to look for I'm no pro when it comes to milling.


----------



## SlurpJ

weimedog said:


> .074 Jet thru dssjms :
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/222039380149?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
> 
> Tubing for bushing:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/191736983612?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT



Wiemedog I pulled the top of my carb off to check out possibly upgrading to the larger .074 jet but I don't see a jet in there?? Was this for the OEM carb only, did I skip over reading a page?


----------



## weimedog

I'm using a walbro...so have not yet looked at the am carb. Won't get the it until the weekend. .


----------



## SlurpJ

Good to know, as you can see no jet. I might have to pull it apart some more and figure out how it works. Or did I get a paperweight....


----------



## davhul

It's under the metering diaphragm. Has a slot for a screw driver. I drilled the aftermarket carb jet. It was .062 like a wj69


----------



## davhul

Just seen your pic. Nope no jet to drill. Fixed jet


----------



## Chris3558

Hey guys,
I just placed my order for a MS660 kit today. I will post the outcome once it shows up. Thanks in advanced for all the info you guys have shared! Awesome!


----------



## Bedford T

Should be a walk in the park if you spend the time your waiting reading and taking notes. It will be fun


----------



## Ash UK Chopper

Evening all,

I've built my Farmertec MS660 up, ran it for a few tanks and thought I'd take it to bits to make sure all is well.

I did this as I was having to richen the low speed adjustment to get it to idle so much that I was to 2 turns out, thought something is not right. Was still revving and cutting nicely but dying when off the throttle and needing half choke to run again.

I took the pot off and unfortunately it's starting to get some score marks on both the intake and exhaust side. The piston has survived except some heavy abrasion marks about 1/8th of an inch from the bottom of the intake skirt... Possibly catching the gasket.. As I write this I think I might have the gasket in the wrong way up. I'll get some pictures tomorrow as it's nearly midnight as I type. 

The top of the piston is coated in a film of oil as is the bore, the crank/bottom end seems a bit dry.....

I've never built a saw, just replaced pistons and such. I think I may have botched the crank seal picture included.

So please help.

1. Which way does the cylinder gasket go up?

2. Does the crank seal look correctly seated?

3. Should the case behind the clutch and such be coated in a black oily residue as it is in the pictures as well? I assume this may be a leaky crank seal?

Thank you to all.

Ash


----------



## Bedford T

From here the seal flywheel side looks puckered. Easy to pinch them.


----------



## davhul

Yeah. Looks like it has rolled outward. I would bet the spring has came off the back of the seal also. Sorry


----------



## Ash UK Chopper

Bedford T said:


> From here the seal flywheel side looks puckered. Easy to pinch them.



What's the solution for remedy here? Split the case and start again with new seals or can the seal be picked or poked back into 'play'? 

Thank you for the quick reply.


----------



## Bedford T

I meant clutch side, larger one.

i dont mean the clutch side. i am having a hard time with this new program or its my phone. could not correct myself fast enough


----------



## Bedford T

you dont have to start over and mess with the case. just the seal. and fixing your top end. i am doing a similar thing. my jug was not tack down tight enough on one side and is being replaced


----------



## Bedford T

Here's mine


----------



## Ash UK Chopper

I think the top end luckily still has life in it, still 160psi compression. So I'll get this seal shifted and it'll be game on hopefully!


----------



## Bedford T




----------



## Ash UK Chopper

Yes, pretty obvious I have buggered up my seal.... 

Next question 

How do I get my seal seated correctly? How do I remove it? 
New seal time? 

Thank you for the pictures


----------



## Bedford T

there is a post of me removing one of my seals with a screw buried in this thread. i drilled a half moon and pushed a screw through it and popped it out. press it in fully, even, using some oil on the shaft.

i fussed about the seals being installed because as you can see its easy to pucker them

let me share something i just learned. if you own a chainsaw you should also have a pressure/vacuum gun. that is absolute. you must do the checks as you maintain your saw. you will find problems before they cost you money and slow you down. if you had done a check you would have found that seal leaking. it leans your saw and shortens its life. all over a not having a $50 tool.

i just bought one and i am certain it solved my current problem and will help me find and fix others as the saw ages. it also works on your blowers trimmers etc

you said something earlier, you have never put a chainsaw together. very few people have. us kit people have, from scratch. we just need experience in troubleshooting them and that comes with it free of charge as you can see.


----------



## Bedford T




----------



## Ash UK Chopper

Thanks good info. 

I'm glad I've learned a lesson on this saw rather than my work saws. I'm looking at a £25 fix rather than a £200, £300, £500+++++ blunder! 

I agree, I need to be able to pressure test the crank case. Any links to the particular gear you use? 

I assume one just buys a sheet of gasket material or old inner tube and cuts out a couple of lumps to put between the carb and pot and pot and exhaust to seal the engine to test.... 

Thanks again 

Ash


----------



## Bedford T

I just found the muffler is not good enough. Looks like you are across the pond so I will just say on the gun it needs to do both pressure vac. Mityvac 8500 is popular. I got a clone.

And a piece of steel cut like the muffler gasket and then some strips of thick rubber to seal the exhaust works best.

It's more than your crankcase, you have your fuel delivery system and the gun with test your carb as well


----------



## Bedford T

And you need a short 10mm bolt with washer to seal the decompression valve hole


----------



## Bedford T

You have a place that carries a lot of the special tools I think it's called DK plant. The screw I mentioned and the rubber strips would be cheap to get from them or your dealer


----------



## Chris3558

Bedford T, where did you get your vacuum tester? Did it come with all the necessary fittings?


----------



## Bedford T

decomp plug is 4421 025 2200 fills the decomp valve hole
seal plate 0000 855 8106 rubber strip
carb flange that covers the the intake 5910 850 4200 you attach your air hose to
exhaust block off adapter is 1122 145 1200 shaped like the muffler gasket and use the same screws that hold the muffler on

less than $50 
+
what ever you can get by with for the gun and you are loaded for bear


----------



## Bedford T

Chris3558 said:


> Bedford T, where did you get your vacuum tester? Did it come with all the necessary fittings?


ebay, yes sir except the items i just listed. i think the cats meow is the mityvac 8500, but there are others.


----------



## 67L36Driver

Ash UK Chopper said:


> Evening all,
> 
> I've built my Farmertec MS660 up, ran it for a few tanks and thought I'd take it to bits to make sure all is well.
> 
> I did this as I was having to richen the low speed adjustment to get it to idle so much that I was to 2 turns out, thought something is not right. Was still revving and cutting nicely but dying when off the throttle and needing half choke to run again.
> 
> I took the pot off and unfortunately it's starting to get some score marks on both the intake and exhaust side. The piston has survived except some heavy abrasion marks about 1/8th of an inch from the bottom of the intake skirt... Possibly catching the gasket.. As I write this I think I might have the gasket in the wrong way up. I'll get some pictures tomorrow as it's nearly midnight as I type.
> 
> The top of the piston is coated in a film of oil as is the bore, the crank/bottom end seems a bit dry.....
> 
> I've never built a saw, just replaced pistons and such. I think I may have botched the crank seal picture included.
> 
> So please help.
> 
> 1. Which way does the cylinder gasket go up?
> 
> 2. Does the crank seal look correctly seated?
> 
> 3. Should the case behind the clutch and such be coated in a black oily residue as it is in the pictures as well? I assume this may be a leaky crank seal?
> 
> Thank you to all.
> 
> AshView attachment 544177
> View attachment 544190



Raise the metering lever a tad. 1/64"


----------



## James P Ryan

to keep from mis-installing the seal, wrap 1 turn of .003 or there abouts shim stock around the shaft so that it eases the seal over the step. after its over the step you can remove the shim stock. not doing this will drop the spring nearly every time.


----------



## Ash UK Chopper

I've removed the seal and the spring was sat in the bearing....as suspected from people's replies! 

New seal en route. Looking at shim stock... Maybe Ptfe tape wrapped over the lip might help


----------



## LegDeLimber

Grab a bottle of drinking water and cut a section from it.
Now wrap it around the shaft. Use some tape to hold the plastic in the round tube shape.
It works if you have the plastic long enough to allow the tape to be above/away from where the seal needs to slide over the shaft.

PTFE tape tends to shred, lengthwise, so I would be concerned with the stringy dingle berries that would likely leave behind.


----------



## Ash UK Chopper

LegDeLimber said:


> PTFE tape tends to shred, lengthwise, so I would be concerned with the stringy dingle berries that would likely leave behind.



Ha ha, dingle berrys would not be beneficial to prime engine running conditions then I assume!


----------



## Ozhoo

Beer cans are the bees knees for shim stock during seal installs


----------



## Hydro74

I have noticed in my last batch of the 660 kits (3) the casings aren't the same as the previous kits. The earlier ones had the ailment pins in casings that could slip out into the clutch side causing damage to the clutch side there is a vid on YouTube somewhere explaining this which is now a great upgrade but I have discovered that the chain brake mechanism isn't working on all three kits I had to resort to ordering the oem stihl part





It seemed that huztl part would almost over extend when engaging it to the lock position and then when pulling the chain brake handle back it would not disengage it without putting a small screwdriver in between the lever to help it unlock 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Bedford T

So are you saying you need a bushing to realign it. Maybe just a washer?


----------



## Hydro74

Here's the video explaining the casing pin issue. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Hydro74

Honestly I can't figure it out the older casings like the ones in the video work fine with the lever mentioned but the newer upgraded casing just doesn't seem to work I even have three different type of huztl levers and all three don't work but they did on the older cases, but if I slap an oem lever on the current cases no problems?!...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## davhul

Hope the new casting isn't a few thousands off for pin location


----------



## Ozhoo

Here's the latest case sans exposed pin


----------



## Hydro74

Yep those are the current cases the pin on the old cases that would fall out is located at 6 o clock in the above picture I made a habit of putting some epoxy over the top of it to ensure it would move outward 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Ozhoo

I peen it with a small punch.


----------



## Bedford T

If these cases are different are you sure they are still magnesium? did anyone measure the pin to see if there was enough variation to cause this problem? that was very destructive. enough where the peen and some epoxy might be in order for piece of mind


----------



## Hydro74

I wish I had a set of old cases to compare just have the newer ones now


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## trboxman

You know, once the screws are in and the case is sealed the location pins aren't needed. Just push them out and store them away till the next time you need to reassemble the case.


----------



## blsnelling

That pin is critical to the alignment of the case halves. It most definitely should not be loose enough to work out. The more I see of these kits, the less I want to do with them. I was intrigued at one point, but not any more.


----------



## Bedford T

you might be jumping the gun. it could be a bad batch of pins, why leave the pin in there? i guess if you want to find things wrong you can and certainly will. i am just saying there could be more to this that meets the eye.

that case is just as good as the oem case, or they were. they are not or have not had time to examine them. i asked earlier if they were still magnesium. i guarantee if the guys i talk with had their hands on them there would be answers. right now the sky is falling

there are valid questions that remain. the 660 was a great kit that simply required some experienced guy holding on to it, or someone who can follow directions, i fall in the latter


----------



## Bedford T

Hydro74 said:


> I wish I had a set of old cases to compare just have the newer ones now
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



how have the cases changed? are the markings different? finish? what?


----------



## Hydro74

Here's a pic showing the measurement from pin to pin 
If anybody has any older cases they could compare measurements 







Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Ozhoo

They're still mag... paint quality seems to be improved. Besides the locating pin change, there's some minor changes around the chain brake area. If there's something specific that you'd like to see, let me know. I have both versions in front of me.


----------



## Ozhoo

Hydro74 said:


> Here's a pic showing the measurement from pin to pin
> If anybody has any older cases they could compare measurements



Measures the same on a V1 case


----------



## Bedford T

This is from way back


----------



## Hydro74

The one on the left is the earlier version I had for my first 5 kits the last three I received are the ones on the right. Coincidentally the oem chain adjuster worked on those casings but not the newer ones. Notice the dowel sticking out at the top at 12 o'clock is different ones is like the oem (left pic) and the other is kinda smaller and mushroomed on the top


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----------



## blsnelling

Bedford T said:


> you might be jumping the gun. it could be a bad batch of pins, why leave the pin in there? i guess if you want to find things wrong you can and certainly will. i am just saying there could be more to this that meets the eye.
> 
> that case is just as good as the oem case, or they were. they are not or have not had time to examine them. i asked earlier if they were still magnesium. i guarantee if the guys i talk with had their hands on them there would be answers. right now the sky is falling
> 
> there are valid questions that remain. the 660 was a great kit that simply required some experienced guy holding on to it, or someone who can follow directions, i fall in the latter


I didn't just jump to this conclusion over this latest issue.


----------



## Bedford T

Hydro74 said:


> Coincidentally the oem chain adjuster worked on those casings but not the newer ones



The chain adjuster has been a weak point from day one and I know that to be true because i am one of the first to get these kits


----------



## Bedford T

Ozhoo said:


> Measures the same on a V1 case



So when did v1 come out this is getting interesting


----------



## Hydro74

I'm not sure but I've had issues with huztl of recent missing parts and Orders not sent out or notified of either. One email claimed they were out of stock on some parts and were on back order I'm kinda wondering if they are scrambling for parts from other suppliers to fill orders, I think I'm just gonna order from farmertec directly just to compare quality and consistency 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Hydro74

I'll try and get a quick video shot here soon showing the huztl chain brake mechanism not working compared to the working oem component 


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----------



## Ozhoo

Bedford T said:


> So when did v1 come out this is getting interesting



I've been calling the original ones V1 and the new version V2. I got a dozen in a few days ago and of that 3 are V1.


----------



## Bedford T

Ozhoo said:


> I've been calling the original ones V1 and the new version V2. I got a dozen in a few days ago and of that 3 are V1.


you are confusing people. how do you know what v1 is?


----------



## Hydro74

V1 is the one on the left in his picture 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Bedford T

you should say that i have two different cases and they are different in these ways. so i will call this whatever v1 and the other one v2 because i am making this crap up as i go along


----------



## Bedford T

Hydro74 said:


> V1 is the one on the left in his picture
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



if there is a v1 its in my picture. that case was purchased within 10 days of the selling them


----------



## Ozhoo

Bedford T said:


> you should say that i have two different cases and they are different in these ways. so i will call this whatever v1 and the other one v2 because i am making this crap up as i go along



i have two different cases and they are different in these ways. so i will call this whatever v1 and the other one v2 because i am making this crap up as i go along


----------



## Ozhoo

I assumed that we were all in the same discussion and knew what the original version was


----------



## Bedford T

apparently not i am hearing from people and they are concerned about what they have.


----------



## Bedford T

i suspect that they as they always have source there parts from other guys down the street. we as a group have taken these kits and poured our hearts in them. most as a stress reliever and its been fun.

so i would bet they will have different ones i don't know why its upsetting to have tried so hard to complete an inferior being..a clone there i said it. and then have it torn over misunderstandings. 

the numbers on mine are different than on yours so that is enough in its self to label it any way just be clear.


----------



## davhul

I'll look at mine and see what I have. It's one that I ordered little over a month ago. The problems Ive had to overcome are the chain adjuster problem, master control lever skipping straight to idle after choke, and my piston skirt hitting the crank lobe, And nasty castings in the ports. All in which slowed me down. A 2 hour job that took 5 but it went together better than I expected really


----------



## trboxman

davhul said:


> I'll look at mine and see what I have. It's one that I ordered little over a month ago. The problems Ive had to overcome are the chain adjuster problem, master control lever skipping straight to idle after choke, and my piston skirt hitting the crank lobe, And nasty castings in the ports. All in which slowed me down. A 2 hour job that took 5 but it went together better than I expected really



I've encountered several of the same problems.
*Chain adjuster:*

the threads on the pinion gear, and the gear teeth themselves are fairly rough due to the tooling used to cut them being dull or worn more than OEM would allow, this makes it less than smooth as you run the adjuster back and forth- The fix - it'll wear in.
The pocket on the case where the pinion end rests is cast too large - this causes the pinion to push away from the ring gear when you turn the ring gear - the fix - cut a 2.5mm long section of 3/16" brass tubing (documented in this thread) to act as a bushing on the end of the pinion gear, this tightens up the gap such that the pinion no longer is pushed away from the ring gear
*Nasty cylinder port casting:*

Clean up with sandpaper or die grinder.
*Master control lever:*

Take the lever out and cut off all of the casting flash with a razor. May have to do the same to the trigger.


----------



## trboxman

I haven't cleaned this case yet but here is the measurement of the brake pins and a picture of the casting change [?]. This case was shipped out in late October. 

Sent from a magic box in my pocket.


----------



## Bedford T

So is that version two or more?


----------



## Bedford T

I see three different measurements


----------



## Ash UK Chopper

Hydro74 said:


> I have noticed in my last batch of the 660 kits (3) the casings aren't the same as the previous kits. The earlier ones had the ailment pins in casings that could slip out into the clutch side causing damage to the clutch side there is a vid on YouTube somewhere explaining this which is now a great upgrade but I have discovered that the chain brake mechanism isn't working on all three kits I had to resort to ordering the oem stihl part
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seemed that huztl part would almost over extend when engaging it to the lock position and then when pulling the chain brake handle back it would not disengage it without putting a small screwdriver in between the lever to help it unlock
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I've had the same issue, tried adding material as a bodge to the arm, worked but shonky. 

In the end genuine stihl arm fixed mine. Nice and snappy


----------



## Bedford T

At least they are actually clones so the original part makes it all better


----------



## trboxman

Here's a pic of the chain adjuster fix. 






Sent from a magic box in my pocket.


----------



## trboxman

Bedford T said:


> I see three different measurements


If you had 5 people measuring you'd likely have 5 measurements. 

Sent from a magic box in my pocket.


----------



## Bedford T

So we all have the same case. That's much less confusing.

And to top it off I had same issues. So a handful of fixable things. I was starting to worry reading these later posts where the sky was falling for the new comers and lookers


----------



## trboxman

Don't know. They may have a different version case. Mine are all the same but I haven't ordered any since October. I do know that there are at least two versions of cranks and two versions of clutch covers so it's certainly not out of the realm of possibilities that there would be different versions of the cases. 

Sent from a magic box in my pocket.


----------



## Bedford T

At some point that would need to be a way to differentiate between them. Measurements seemed to be the only way


----------



## bikemike

So what all comes with this kit?


----------



## Ozhoo

bikemike said:


> So what all comes with this kit?



Everything to build a MS660 with the exception of the brass grommets in the cylinder cover, the air box shutter and a name plate


----------



## Chris3558

Can you talk about the brass grommets in the cylinder cover? Is it possible to post a pic of what your referring too? Thanks.


----------



## Bedford T

They are small brass bushings that the screw passed thru when you put cover on


----------



## bikemike

How much does a whole 660 kit cost?


----------



## SlurpJ

I don't recall hearing about this either. I definitely don't see any brass bushings in my kit.


----------



## Ozhoo

bikemike said:


> How much does a whole 660 kit cost?



$280 or so delivered to your door... of you could buy one of those Piltz kits for 7 something.


----------



## Bedford T

They are not there. Not included. The foil that on a 660 should cover the case under the muffler is missing. They bought me some and promised to put in in future cases. One of the few saws that can deform the plastic


----------



## Bedford T

You can modify this kit. That's the whole idea behind a kit. Buy you some OEM stuff some meteor stuff and have at it


----------



## Ozhoo

SlurpJ said:


> I don't recall hearing about this either. I definitely don't see any brass bushings in my kit.



They aren't included. They keep you from over torquing the screws and breaking the plastic.
p/n is 0000 963 0808


----------



## Bedford T

I had a big argument over the shutter. Even in Chinese air flow should be a concern. But there was an asterisk by it in their IPL. None of those missing items are a deal breaker.

They should be shipping the foil. They raised the price. You guys should be holding their feet to that fire.


----------



## bikemike

Ozhoo said:


> $280 or so delivered to your door... of you could buy one of those Piltz kits for 7 something.


Those putz kits are too fast for me. 
But cheep is me. If I can get a kit build it run it and proves worthy through break inn then maybe a pipe it and blow it up with a sneaky pete NOS kit


----------



## bikemike

Bedford T said:


> I had a big argument over the shutter. Even in Chinese air flow should be a concern. But there was an asterisk by it in their IPL. None of those missing items are a deal breaker.
> 
> They should be shipping the foil. They raised the price. You guys should be holding their feet to that fire.


Nothing a Lil duct tape can't fix.


----------



## Bedford T

Ok


----------



## Hydro74

Ash UK Chopper said:


> I've had the same issue, tried adding material as a bodge to the arm, worked but shonky.
> 
> In the end genuine stihl arm fixed mine. Nice and snappy



Exactly my point I was trying to make obviously different tooled components 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SlurpJ

Just talked to my cousin and he can order me Stihl parts through work.  Has anybody got a list of parts that may (or may not) be needed based upon experience along with part numbers. Here is what I have so far.

Brass bushing 0000 963 0808 qty ?
Air shutter 1122 141 4000
chain adjuster 1125 007 1021
clutch bearing 9512 933 2382 mine was plastic and broken upon arrival
Heat foil ??? 
OEM gas cap ??
OEM oil cap ??

Please share any info you have as what I'm looking at is missing some part #'s and correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## Bedford T

You don't need a oem chain adjuster either will need the modifications detailed here for reasons detailed here


----------



## Bedford T

There are 3 bushings


----------



## Bedford T

Reflector foil 1124 084 8300


----------



## Bedford T

Oil gas
0000 350 0503
0000 350 0531


----------



## SlurpJ

SlurpJ said:


> Brass bushing 0000 963 0808 qty 3
> Air shutter 1122 141 4000
> chain adjuster 1125 007 1021
> clutch bearing 9512 933 2382 mine was plastic and broken upon arrival
> Heat foil 1124 084 8300
> OEM gas cap 0000 350 0531
> OEM oil cap 0000 350 0503
> This is the brass bushing for the chain adjuster if needed:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just trying to consolidate all parts and numbers that may be needed.


----------



## Ozhoo

SlurpJ said:


> ...Please share any info you have as what I'm looking at is missing some part #'s and correct me if I'm wrong.



patience = priceless
Take your time and if something doesn't feel right, step back


----------



## SlurpJ

I've got patience, just prefer to order everything I may need ahead of time. Just finished up building a pistol that every single part had to be hand fitted which means filing to fit, took me every bit of 80 hours. So I know patience. Just hoping for a list of possible parts anyone doing a build like this (myself included) could need along with part #'s without having to read through all 62 pages.


----------



## Bedford T

yes and another thing you should consider. order extra screws at the same time you place your order just in case something comes up. they are cheap. a m5x16 spline will set you back more than $3 at the stihl parts counter. i would also consider a few woodruff keys. when your in the moment losing a key is real easy.

if you have never built one go very very very slow and that will be very very very hard to do. at the end you will see why.

prepare a way to install the brake spring. since i built mine i have bought lots of stihl tools and the one that is most satisfying is that tool. i will post a pic in a minute.

you really should read the entire thread with a pad of paper and take notes. man there ia a lot to it


----------



## Bedford T

this is a photo of the spring tool 1117 890 0900


----------



## Chris3558

Does anyone know short of going to the Stihl dealer, where one can buy online the H / L decals for the carb screw adjustment side of the air cleaner cover?


----------



## davhul

The ones printed on


----------



## davhul

The ones printed on


----------



## Chris3558

I have been reading all these post from you guys who ordered your kits back in September. Some got them in under 2 weeks, some waited almost a month, a few cancelled and started over. I ordered mine 12/17/16 and just today the 22nd, the status says it has been shipped. Hoping to see it some time next week. Thanks in advanced for all the time and effort you guys have spent on the do's and don'ts in building these saws. I know mine will go together slow, I got all winter!


----------



## Bedford T

It will not go slow. I suggest you try so you can savior every minute.

Honestly if I would have had this road map it would have gone faster for me.

When it's over you will be bummed and start looking for something to put your hands on. You will have you saw and that in itself is awesome. But you built the thing and your skills will naw at you, it did me anyway.

Enjoy it


----------



## Bedford T

fellas get your wallets out and treat yourself. your saw will be pretty under the xmas tree when its wearing this

http://www.ebay.com/itm/STIHL-CHAIN...144397?hash=item51f0f821cd:g:w5YAAOSwA3dYVIIP

he said he did 440, 361 too


----------



## Ash UK Chopper

Bedford T said:


> decomp plug is 4421 025 2200 fills the decomp valve hole
> seal plate 0000 855 8106 rubber strip
> carb flange that covers the the intake 5910 850 4200 you attach your air hose to
> exhaust block off adapter is 1122 145 1200 shaped like the muffler gasket and use the same screws that hold the muffler on
> 
> less than $50
> +
> what ever you can get by with for the gun and you are loaded for bear



I've removed the old seal and new one is on using a bit of drink can to stop it puckering out, worked a treat.

Tried running the saw again and it still dies with **** to no idle.

Compression top end is good 150-160psi

Looks like I need to test everything else using the gear you've listed here.

I think the place in the UK is L&S Engineers, they have all the parts sans the rubber sealing plates which I can make out of some rubber mat.
The Vacuum test gun you have is £22 on eBay here. Total is £40 for all the test parts. Not bad and I'll be able to test other saws out. I think my MS020t is doing something funky so it'll come in handy there.

Has anyone got any pictures of a saw with all the head sealed up and a vacuum and pressure test going on? out of interest......


----------



## davhul

I did. I see if I still have the vid/pic


----------



## davhul

I don't have the vid any more. I can find something to do a pressure test on. But it would be Monday


----------



## Bedford T

Hold tight and I give you a link


----------



## Bedford T

This will give you an overview


----------



## Ash UK Chopper

I found some bits on youtube.

Has anyone simply shoved a bit of rubber between the carb and intake manifold and used the impulse barb to connect the pump to pressureise the engine from the crank? Just mitigates the fancy £11 stihl carb blanking plate thing?


----------



## Ash UK Chopper

davhul said:


> I don't have the vid any more. I can find something to do a pressure test on. But it would be Monday


 I think YouTube has served up a gem. Would be good to see a MS660 in a 'test phase'!


----------



## Bedford T

Ash UK Chopper said:


> I found some bits on youtube.
> 
> Has anyone simply shoved a bit of rubber between the carb and intake manifold and used the impulse barb to connect the pump to pressureise the engine from the crank? Just mitigates the fancy £11 stihl carb blanking plate thing?


That will work with the muffler. The difference is getting it right takes work/luck. If your chasing a leak you need confidence.

Using the impulse you exclude other parts of the circuit.

Don't over look your fuel delivery system


----------



## davhul

Ash UK Chopper said:


> I found some bits on youtube.
> 
> Has anyone simply shoved a bit of rubber between the carb and intake manifold and used the impulse barb to connect the pump to pressureise the engine from the crank? Just mitigates the fancy £11 stihl carb blanking plate thing?



You could. I always do the pressure test first. Usually there's a leak and just soap down to find it. My exhaust block off is the culprit most of the time and just tighten and or recenter.


----------



## Ash UK Chopper

Bedford T said:


> Don't over look your fuel delivery system



Can you offer some pointers here then?

I assume that again a test gun would be handy to put on the fuel lines to make sure nothing i s blocked and the tank is breathing etc?


----------



## Bedford T

Yes you have the vent hose, connections, tank,fuel cap. The tank you pressurize and it should hold, the vent is tested with the vacuum and should leak. No more than 10psi


----------



## Ash UK Chopper

Bedford T said:


> Yes you have the vent hose, connections, tank,fuel cap. The tank you pressurize and it should hold, the vent is tested with the vacuum and should leak. No more than 10psi



Looks like I'll be buying some more bits!!!!


----------



## Bedford T

Most of the guns have a fitting to attach the hose. Stihl has a nipple I am going to get that is reversible for hose size that $3. I will get one soon.

When you test the carb you might have to use a piece of fuel line and a nipple. Both pressure and vac come into play there.

I told a guy the other day how important that gun was and he made fun of me. We can see it's helpful


----------



## Ash UK Chopper

no yes, its silly not to be testing these things otherwise its just stabbing in the dark and spending money ham sam


----------



## Bedford T

We new to this have to try harder. Davhul is a pro. He could slip that rubber in between with a 90% success rate. I was ready to shoot my saw. I got it...Finally. but bought the thing the next day.

That nipple is
0000 855 9200


----------



## Bedford T

UK Chopper we might have forgot to answer part of your questions on the rubber. i attached a photo of one and it i think it needs to be more than 2.5mm thick. the measurement in the photo is inches. i put up a photo of the flange installed too, just for giggles.

the black hose by the nut on the flange is where you can test the fuel circuit from. both pressure and vac from that one spot. with OEM fuel cap on.

the flange has a screw at the bottom and goes in and blocks the impulse. just to give you an idea of its setup. the screw head is peeking from underneath the clear hose.


----------



## Ash UK Chopper

So no need to block the impulse line with a screw as the test flange does the blocking for me. I'll be sure to test evening once this vacuum pump arrives. Probably be week after next.


----------



## Bedford T

Ash UK Chopper said:


> So no need to block the impulse line with a screw as the test flange does the blocking for me. I'll be sure to test evening once this vacuum pump arrives. Probably be week after next.



While you are at it, when you are done, remove the flange first and attach your pump to the impulse line. Gently turn your ... Flywheel...or whatever, and watch the dial. It should bounce.

What you will have witnessed is the carb pulse. Drives the diaphragm in your carb. That is a great step so when it's time to cut wood you know all systems are good. And later an important peridoic maintenance test.

edit
here is a photo of the exhaust test plate that is potentially better than the stihl test plate...in that it is solid and a thinner piece of rubber would work to complete the seal. ebay


----------



## Ash UK Chopper

All good stuff. 

I could make a exhaust plate out of sheet steel if push comes to shove


----------



## weimedog

The "davhul" chain adjuster "fix"...


----------



## davhul

Good vid weimdog couldn't said it better myself you always have good videos. It seems to work with the huztl adjuster also. But I've only really tested it with the oem and so far so good. Thanks again for your great videos [emoji106]


----------



## weimedog

Actually thank you for advancing the state of the art on these builds... Going to try to shim both ends on the Chinese adjusters. The OEM actually have a slightly larger diameter and might be why I had better luck with them vs. my material theory...simply geometry. Also why I had to drive those bushings on the OEM vs. them just sliding onto the Chinese ones. Diving head long into the Carb thing next. Definitely going for a more complete set of letter drills and wish I could replicate that one carb vs. having to drill fixed jets. Having fun with that "bling" saw BTW...goofy and impractical almost ridiculous as it is..its a blast to run! I would be curious to see your cut on trying to debug those carbs that don't work from China...is it the throttle plate?? Internal chips left from manufacturing? Tolerance issues? Wonder if we are going to drill them anyway, its worth pulling the plugs opening the passages a tiny bit and using them on future "bling" saws...thoughts??

Also hoping "Definitive Dave" finds more of those intake deals...if not I will make some from bar stock. Was thinking of a way to cut a cover to allow that filter to hang out and fasten the modified cover to the air box (The screw in the middle would be gone )....might keep some of the chips and dirt away from those carb and switch parts.


----------



## davhul

I must have missed the issues with the Chinese carb problems. The only issues I had was a high idle. Fixed mine by loosing the throttle plate and letting it realign then retighten. 
My only other issue in that area was the control lever. When moving from choke to high idle it would skip straight to idle. That ended up being to much play in groove the control lever sat in. Everything else seems to work like it should.


----------



## weimedog

davhul said:


> I must have missed the issues with the Chinese carb problems. The only issues I had was a high idle. Fixed mine by loosing the throttle plate and letting it realign then retighten.
> My only other issue in that area was the control lever. When moving from choke to high idle it would skip straight to idle. That ended up being to much play in groove the control lever sat in. Everything else seems to work like it should.



Seems like the Carbs I had from 2 years ago were a mixed bag, and also seemingly from different sources. The ones I had issues with would start & run, just it was impossible to get those saws to idle, even with high idle & playing the low speed adjustment end to end. At first I was certain it was either the freeport issue, an air leak, or something I had done when I was building them or messing with the intake port timing. BUT realized the problems followed the carbs...pitched them and replaced some with MORE Huztl's that did work on some, and on my work saws, Walbro's. Bling saw has a Huztl sourced carb right now (Had a Walbro on it for a bit..worked fine) & needs more fuel, and while the carb is in fact doing its job, kind of made me go back and first relive the experience....Carb-PTSD and now with a slightly different perspective figure out what happened and understand it. AND hopefully build a plan on the AM carbs that works well both for the "as delivered" 54mm's and the tweaked 56's.


----------



## 67L36Driver

Two main problems I've had with the aftermarket carbs are related to the pump diaphragm and metering lever spring.

The stiff plastic in the middle:





Is best replaced by the rubber fabric type.

And the metering lever spring:




Is too much preload and works better with a short OEM spring out of a Farm Boss Walbro.

That being stated, I had absolutely no issues with an AM carb on a MS170. Except for drilling some holes to access the mixture screws.


----------



## Bedford T

weimedog, its great to see that young fellow online, what's his name, was able to solve one of the problems you couldn't. young people are great aren't they? oh yea i remember now.


----------



## weimedog

And 


Bedford T said:


> weimedog, its great to see that young fellow online, what's his name, was able to solve one of the problems you couldn't. young people are great aren't they? oh yea i remember now.



And happy holidays to you and your family as well.....


----------



## Bedford T

And



You just wishing me happiness today. I am humbled again. More back to you.


----------



## Bedford T

weimedog said:


> Actually thank you for advancing the state of the art on these builds... Going to try to shim both ends on the Chinese adjusters. The OEM actually have a slightly larger diameter and might be why I had better luck with them vs. my material theory...simply geometry. Also why I had to drive those bushings on the OEM vs. them just sliding onto the Chinese ones. Diving head long into the Carb thing next. Definitely going for a more complete set of letter drills and wish I could replicate that one carb vs. having to drill fixed jets. Having fun with that "bling" saw BTW...goofy and impractical almost ridiculous as it is..its a blast to run! I would be curious to see your cut on trying to debug those carbs that don't work from China...is it the throttle plate?? Internal chips left from manufacturing? Tolerance issues? Wonder if we are going to drill them anyway, its worth pulling the plugs opening the passages a tiny bit and using them on future "bling" saws...thoughts??
> 
> Also hoping "Definitive Dave" finds more of those intake deals...if not I will make some from bar stock. Was thinking of a way to cut a cover to allow that filter to hang out and fasten the modified cover to the air box (The screw in the middle would be gone )....might keep some of the chips and dirt away from those carb and switch parts.




the ms660 just does not need a velocity stack. to me those adapters are like when you need a better filter than you can get on an 029 after an upgrade you put the stack on it and the stupid looking filter and hope you don't tear it off after snagging it on some branch out in the woods or you are cutting in some competition where the hat is not in the way. if dave does not get you enough stacks give madsens a call. they have them and your filters.

they also do have the max filter and it has a rain cover that would help keep the wood nasties out of the control box and does an efficient job of filtering the air. only requirement is if you like your saw is keeping that filter clean which requires work. Its just a better design. heres a link with hl.
http://www.hlsproparts.com/MaxFlow-Air-Filter-system-for-Stihl-MS650-M660-p/h51066.htm


----------



## weimedog

So are you selling parts and sawz yet? What happened to your business model of reselling ms660's


----------



## weimedog

Pretty familiar with the options actually. .. in reality i don't need 30 something sawz.  and if you ask most of those i hang with i certainly don't need orange and white or am saws!!....but there they r. If your going to get all practical....my 365/372xpw blend i built a few years ago is about the most practical saw for my needs...but i still run the ms660...must be the old age thing... why do you need a 90cc saw? my bet is that 372 build would be most practical for u 2....one thats built, debugged and ready to work.. but here u r. Must be something else driving our desire to build these things.


----------



## Bedford T

i have not settled on anything. finding a manufacture that responds properly is not easy just look at the result of the cross line. ok but not great. i am looking for very good to great and i have not found the one, so not taken the plunge yet. farmertec i think the only thing they actually make is the jug and spark plugs. their jugs are sloppy another 5 minutes in the hands of someone with a foredom might do it. i feel confident the jug i got, got all scored up because i did not clean it up enough and i should not have to clean it up to that degree. biggest flaw is how they just dont care. if its close sell it. my ring chips the edge and scares it up. basic stuff. i know trboxman bought a foredom clone rather than ***** about it. but like a pressure gun we need a foredom to play. or something a little bit heavy duty to remove what should not be there. the jug i replaced it with was from HL and it was smooth out of the box so i know it can be done.

i pointed out the filter options for everyones benefit. researching the filters takes time and most folks dont find the time. yeah i keep everybody in mind when making a post not trying to take all you know for granted.

they are actually addicting. i used to build models, slot cars, later girls, much later r/c cars and now chainsaws. a great distraction. produces great satisfactiona and you can share your interest with others. you learn foremost and then teach. only other thing like it was girls and at my age this is safer


----------



## Philbert

64 pages! * W O W* - is my mouse clicking hand tired!

Thanks for all of the detailed input and insight.

Philbert


----------



## Bedford T

You been working hard. Bet you feel empowered as hokie as that sounds. You should have more fun with no hand wringing, it's done its job


----------



## weimedog

Now we r on the same page. I would support definitive Dave because he had helped me. I actually already have built a couple of permutations of that stack because it was interesting. ..pretty familiar with Madsen's, actually a great place. I've also revived some saws they built...that had run great and lasted as well...they had an interesting built concept that while possibly not "perfect ", was repeatable and reliable. ...another story. 
But let's be real, these are fun for us and neither of us and most who are following this need these saws. ..they are simply cool for a lot of reasons different for everyone. Bling saw is just yet another direction. As there are many. No one answer and part of the attraction is the fact these platforms can evolve in so many ways. Mine? Will be on the ragged edge of practical. And a practical one thrown in for comparisons. ..but they will be fun, somewhat usefull, and very repeatable. ...whitness this thread. And I will always both promote and appreciate folks like davhul when they add to the discussion. ..in fact I will back away..it's not about me. And I have nothing to prove or even want to be the "expert". Just want to share the hobby and give enough where folks can take their project their own way...my value add is simply showing its possible and fun. I will never do a bolt by bolt build. Thats Not my audience. . one thing you can count on..is when i see everyone on a "zig" i will "zag" simply to get more folks thinking and trying different products and build concepts


----------



## trboxman

weimedog said:


> The "davhul" chain adjuster "fix"...




The Chinese chain adjusters work with the bushing, it stops the ring gear from pushing the pinion away, they're not as smooth because the threads on the screw and the teeth on the ring and pinion gears are not as cleanly cut but they do wear in.


----------



## Bedford T

weimedog said:


> Now we r on the same page. I would support definitive Dave because he had helped me. I actually already have built a couple of permutations of that stack because it was interesting. ..pretty familiar with Madsen's, actually a great place. I've also revived some saws they built...that ran great and lasted as well...they had an interesting built concept that while possibly not "perfect ", was repeatable and reliable. ...another story.
> But let's be real, these are fun for us and neither of us and most who are following this need these saws. ..they are simply cool for a lot of reasons different for everyone. Bling saw is just yet another direction. As there are many. No one answer and part of the attraction is the fact these platforms can evolve in so many ways. Mine? Will be on the ragged edge of practical. And a practical one thrown in for comparisons. ..but they will be fun, somewhat usefull, and very repeatable. ...whitness this thread. And I will always both promote and appreciate folks like davhul when they add to the discussion. ..in fact I will back away..it's not about me. And I have nothing to prove or even want to be the "expert". Just want to share the hobby and give enough where folks can take their project their own way...my value add is simply showing its possible and fun. I will never do a bolt by bolt build. Thats Not my audience. .


Go back and listen to you video on the fix. Just that portion. Close your eyes and open your mind and come back and read what you just wrote and see if they jive.

Your videos are helpful and your are succeeding. I watched as trboxman and davhul troubleshot the problem. And then I heard you explore, share and approve of the fix. That guy on the internet. Your phone getting alerts in the background so it was within reach to find out the guys name and give him verbal credit while you are educating your followers with your helpful videos.

That's actually a patentable solution and so it was just business to me.

Did not bother that young man one bit. But we are old farts and know better. Backing off is not a good idea. I am camera shy we're probably not as pretty as donnieboy he gets in front of the camera. Not me! So it's a good idea to show how much fun it is.

PS I am a frequent customer of DD


----------



## weimedog

Wow. This is a form of r & r for me, not going to get drawn into yet another pointless argument. Nor do I accept the premise.


----------



## trboxman

"Can't we all get along?" - R. King


----------



## Bedford T

xmas is going to be over in 30 minutes. hope everybody got something they like. i got a shiney new something.


----------



## weimedog

On a more positive note:

What happens when you bring one of these MS660's to a Husqvarna / Jonsered "Noodling" party? This is A group of really good and very knowledgeable saw guys.....but all about Husqvarna or Jonsered therefore not particularly interested in Orange & White saws and especially not clones! These saws are never completely welcome at these events...but I had a job on the farm, they had saws. Most quite a bit smaller in displacement so never a fair or even relevant comparison, so we didn't and wouldn't go there, as thats pointless. In fact one of those "Pro" built 372's was...amazing. One of a few spectacular saws in his collection of race & performance saws. Didn't get a lot of that show on this video. Another story for another time. I had one of the 56mm work saws I built last year in the truck as usual...one that's been a problem free "go to" saw now for a year or so. It has quite a bit of time on it, constant cleaning & pledge keeps it video presentable. Along with a 562 that is past what "pledge" can deal with cosmetically, is what I've been using now. Curiosity eventually ruled the day ...another in the actions speak louder than words category. Have to say those Husqvarna 281/288's from another era are quite capable as well. Maybe another route to "cheap" big saw power...I have put a clean 281 in the work rotation now.


----------



## Philbert

These sounded more of a 'fun' idea when they were around $140. 

Philbert


----------



## weimedog

Philbert said:


> These sounded more of a 'fun' idea when they were around $140.
> 
> Philbert



True...they were an absolute steal then..but suspect the quality may have improved on some of the components now, but really don't know for certain. Now its really a $300 plus dollar deal minimum when shipping is figured in and thats before B&C. Still a lot of saw if you work your way through the twists and turns. And there is no reason not to add more OEM content for reliability. So say $450 plus B&C for a solid enough saw for anyone but a pro. That's a safer number to go with then your pleased if you beat it. For a while folks were selling complete saws for $650 on eBay. Thats a tougher sale as used OEM saws clean are in that territory and I have to say starting with an old MS660 and adding seals is not a bad place to start. Trade a up few bucks and end up with less assembly time and possibly a better saw. I have a 650 carcass that's headed in that direction...for next year or the year after time allowing. But for a mechanical puzzle? Tough to beat the price and value of that capable a saw assuming you have the skills. This thread is full of folks who worked their way through to a working saw & shared their experience solving issues. One of the best ever threads on the subject. But as I have said over and over, if reliability is the priority and/or making a living with a saw is your world, OEM's are the best way to go regardless of brand. These are great for hobbyists and enthusiast's needing a project. But and I can't stress this enough, they aren't for everyone. But this is tilling old ground...


----------



## Bedford T

$40 does not kill the buzz, they shoulda put the foil in to compensate


----------



## 67L36Driver

MS361 is still $136. 

Darn near bought another.[emoji849]


----------



## trboxman

That is very tempting.


----------



## 67L36Driver

Philbert said:


> These sounded more of a 'fun' idea when they were around $140.
> 
> Philbert



U need a 361.

Something to test the rescued chains with.

[emoji48]


----------



## Bedford T

Did you guys not say the quailty was less than a 660?


----------



## Bedford T

trboxman said:


> That is very tempting.


They removed the multi discount


----------



## weimedog

67L36Driver said:


> U need a 361.
> 
> Something to test the rescued chains with.
> 
> [emoji48]


 If for no other reason to have a cousin saw along side your MS660's.. right cosmetics. Think a used OEM crank will fix any of what ails those 361's


----------



## weimedog

Actually this one seems to make sense...any one try one of these yet?? Maybe I'll go through the process..
http://www.huztl.net/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=56042


----------



## trboxman

Bedford T said:


> They removed the multi discount



Hmm...I bet an email or two might just resolve that.


----------



## tbohn

weimedog said:


> Actually this one seems to make sense...any one try one of these yet?? Maybe I'll go through the process..
> http://www.huztl.net/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=56030


I received a "Product not found" error on Huztl's site. Is this a link to the new 440 parts kit for $181.00? I just ordered one.


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## weimedog

No, the 034-038 series. I like those things. And It would get a larger x-section of stuff if you did the 044 & I built one of these. Another guy built one here I think, was chatting about them on another thread...or maybe it was the 361....both are 60cc class saws. I think the 038 would be more interesting than the 361 though. Just me....going for one of those. I'll get one and figure one out on video..

Seems they move things around...here is where it is now:
http://www.huztl.net/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=56042

The REAL one specs from Mike Acres site....
http://www.acresinternet.com/cscc.n...d7d12fb678653bf688256ba20049bcdb?OpenDocument


----------



## Bedford T

that's is awesome they have the 72cc kit. i asked them for that a month after i bought mine and they said i did not have one. i told them their lineup should be and explained 60cc 72cc 92cc made sense looks like they listened


----------



## Chris3558

Hey Guys,
On a different note, I wanted to report back on my MS660 saw order. I ordered it thru Huztl.net on Sat. Dec. 17th. Last week I received a tracking number that only tells me the shipment is "pending" and this morning the door bell rang. The UPS man just delivered my new saw!!!! How cool is that, 10 days total and mind you we had Christmas in there also! I was very impressed at the box condition all the parts came in. They taped up 100% of every square inch of the outside of the box. It might be a few days before I can get my head into this project....have some other commitments, but I wanted to post a few pics of the packaging. I need to spend some time organizing all the parts and see what might be missing. I will update as I get into it.


----------



## Bedford T

038 is a sweet saw


----------



## tbohn

weimedog said:


> No, the 034-038 series. I like those things. And It would get a larger x-section of stuff if you did the 044 & I built one of these. Another guy built one here I think, was chatting about them on another thread...or maybe it was the 361....both are 60cc class saws. I think the 038 would be more interesting than the 361 though. Just me....going for one of those. I'll get one and figure one out on video..
> 
> Seems they move things around...here is where it is now:
> http://www.huztl.net/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=56042
> 
> The REAL one specs from Mike Acres site....
> http://www.acresinternet.com/cscc.n...d7d12fb678653bf688256ba20049bcdb?OpenDocument


I would love a ms380/ms381 in a kit. I've been looking for some time now. I have even been tempted to go for a complete saw on Alibaba but that defeats the building / tweaking with a kit. Plus I don't trust Alibaba.


----------



## weimedog

Chris3558 said:


> Hey Guys,
> On a different note, I wanted to report back on my MS660 saw order. I ordered it thru Huztl.net on Sat. Dec. 17th. Last week I received a tracking number that only tells me the shipment is "pending" and this morning the door bell rang. The UPS man just delivered my new saw!!!! How cool is that, 10 days total and mind you we had Christmas in there also! I was very impressed at the box condition all the parts came in. They taped up 100% of every square inch of the outside of the box. It might be a few days before I can get my head into this project....have some other commitments, but I wanted to post a few pics of the packaging. I need to spend some time organizing all the parts and see what might be missing. I will update as I get into it.



That's got to be a record...I never had anything take less than 2 weeks, usually 3


----------



## weimedog

tbohn said:


> I would love a ms380/ms381 in a kit. I've been looking for some time now. I have even been tempted to go for a complete saw on Alibaba but that defeats the building / tweaking with a kit. Plus I don't trust Alibaba.



Might be fun to "discect" one....see if they are the same parts....and imagin the concept of...ahem..."upgrading" to farmertec part should they not be of that origin. Any idea of the cost and maybe a link? Get them both and then compare?


----------



## trboxman

Someone needs to smack them around for the spur sprocket pictured int he MS440 kit.


----------



## Bedford T

amen, a spur?


----------



## Bedford T

weimedog said:


> Might be fun to "discect" one....see if they are the same parts....and imagin the concept of...ahem..."upgrading" to farmertec part should they not be of that origin. Any idea of the cost and maybe a link? Get them both and then compare?


a lot of those saws come and go depending on the pressure from stihl. i spoke with a lady two months ago that said stihl is on the phone with them daily almost. she gets tired of it and pulls them and they get hungry and they go back up. you are paying too much because they have the heavy bars and chains with them and shipping is out of sight and that goes by weight

i doubt farmertec has anything to do with those guys


----------



## Bedford T

we should get a 440 and port it. that would be fun in itself. good solid jug to start with.


----------



## tbohn

weimedog said:


> Might be fun to "discect" one....see if they are the same parts....and imagin the concept of...ahem..."upgrading" to farmertec part should they not be of that origin. Any idea of the cost and maybe a link? Get them both and then compare?


I found several suppliers on Alibaba. Information on the sites is very sparse. I found one that offered two ms381 clones for ~$550 delivered. I will post the link when I find it again.


----------



## tbohn

trboxman said:


> Someone needs to smack them around for the spur sprocket pictured int he MS440 kit.


I hope that is not what they send. If so, a rim drum will be the first upgrade on the list of upgrades.


----------



## weimedog

tbohn said:


> I found several suppliers on Alibaba. Information on the sites is very sparse. I found one that offered two ms381 clones for ~$550 delivered. I will post the link when I find it again.


That's got to b a tough sell for that kind of money. Kits for 225 fall into the cheap fun category. ..I'm ordering one of those I think...see where it takes the hobby. A funny twist for me is now I've had those ms660's around a while. .I've gotten interested in the real versions. ..and the actual history of that class of stihl's (066-ms660's) . Picked up a 650..I would never have gone there but for these ms660's


----------



## weimedog

Btw a good rim clutch drum needs to be on the upgrade list for the ms660s. Some are really out of round and have to be adding stress to things. I wasted a bar tip on mine this weekend. (Bling saw) can't be certain it was the out of round clutch or the bore cutting. But it died and that clutch drum was way out of round. Wonder if it stresses the crank bearings. ..don't know, but I'm upgrading all of mine.I had an Oem on the first 56mm work saw..no issues in over a year.


----------



## Bedford T

Mine was round.


----------



## davhul

I found the clutch and or clutch drum couldn't hold the stress of a 36" bar. Yesterday my buddy called me and He said the chain would stop and the saw wasn't bogging and it was like the clutch was slipping. I haven't looked and came up with a conclusion yet on why. But last night I swapped the clutch and drum off my 064 and he said it doesn't slip now and cuts better than it ever did. My first guess without checking into it is the springs are to strong.


----------



## trboxman

weimedog said:


> Btw a good rim clutch drum needs to be on the upgrade list for the ms660s. Some are really out of round and have to be adding stress to things. I wasted a bar tip on mine this weekend. (Bling saw) can't be certain it was the out of round clutch or the bore cutting. But it died and that clutch drum was way out of round. Wonder if it stresses the crank bearings. ..don't know, but I'm upgrading all of mine.I had an Oem on the first 56mm work saw..no issues in over a year.



The 8 or so that I've had in my hands have all been round, must be hit or miss with you having the bad luck so far.


----------



## tbohn

weimedog said:


> That's got to b a tough sell for that kind of money. Kits for 225 fall into the cheap fun category. ..I'm ordering one of those I think...see where it takes the hobby. A funny twist for me is now I've had those ms660's around a while. .I've gotten interested in the real versions. ..and the actual history of that class of stihl's (066-ms660's) . Picked up a 650..I would never have gone there but for these ms660's


I found a 381 clone on AliExpress for $285 delivered. I have never ordered from Alibaba, AliExpress, DHgate, and the like. Now that Huztl is offering the MS 440 kit I'm not sure I'm ready to risk sharing my payment information and/or risk receiving a crappy saw. Here is the address.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/MS3..._5&btsid=1aee2122-d8aa-41ca-bd8e-f874205cf8c3


----------



## tbohn

trboxman said:


> The 8 or so that I've had in my hands have all been round, must be hit or miss with you having the bad luck so far.


Of the seven I have installed, 4 or so were not out of round by visual inspection. The others weren't perfectly round but just barely visually detectable. I probably would not have noticed if Weimedog had not mentioned it previously.


----------



## weimedog

trboxman said:


> The 8 or so that I've had in my hands have all been round, must be hit or miss with you having the bad luck so far.


i have had just two of ten that were noticeably out of wack...left the others in their plastic so don't know how they are.


----------



## trboxman

tbohn said:


> Of the seven I have installed, 4 or so were not out of round by visual inspection. The others weren't perfectly round but just barely visually detectable. I probably would not have noticed if Weimedog had not mentioned it previously.



Sounds like I might need to look more closely.


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## Bedford T

Mine is apart waiting on something. Here is a photo of it on my bench.


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## weimedog

trboxman said:


> Sounds like I might need to look more closely.


 Have to put in on the crank with bearing then check the run out. Its the alignment relative to the internal diameter of the bearing surfaces..


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## trboxman

How much is too much for a stamped and press formed sheet metal part? 

Sent from a magic box in my pocket.


----------



## trboxman

There's more variance in the fit of the rim sprocket than there is along the rim of the clutch drum. I measured 2 at random and only got about .005 difference between and that could be attributed to me not taking enough time to ensure that the mounting on the chuck was absolutely perfect.

I'm not saying that folks haven't gotten out of round drums, just that my experience is different so far.


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## trboxman

This is the clutch drum hanging from a rim sprocket that's mounted on the lathe chuck. Lots of slop there. 

Sent from a magic box in my pocket.


----------



## trboxman

tbohn said:


> I found a 381 clone on AliExpress for $285 delivered. I have never ordered from Alibaba, AliExpress, DHgate, and the like. Now that Huztl is offering the MS 440 kit I'm not sure I'm ready to risk sharing my payment information and/or risk receiving a crappy saw. Here is the address.
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/MS3..._5&btsid=1aee2122-d8aa-41ca-bd8e-f874205cf8c3



Trust me, the Chinese already have all of your personal and financial information, go ahead and buy with confidence.


----------



## 67L36Driver

Outside runout of the clutch drum means nothing. 

Total inside runout of a 1/64" or less is acceptable in my humble opinion.


----------



## trboxman

67L36Driver said:


> Outside runout of the clutch drum means nothing.
> 
> Total inside runout of a 1/64" or less is acceptable in my humble opinion.



Yeah, that's why I showed measuring the inside of the drum too and compared the two.


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## 67L36Driver

The drum and center (spur or rim spline) is furnace braised together an sent out the door. So you will always have some runout.


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## Bedford T

Glad we got that cleared up


----------



## weimedog

Mine are no where near that true...not even in the same league. Especially from ID where the bearing sits to od of drum. One had almost .100 wobble. Pitched that puppy.


----------



## Bedford T

glade we got that cleared up


----------



## weimedog

trboxman said:


> Yeah, that's why I showed measuring the inside of the drum too and compared the two.


Did you measure from the ID where the bearing sits?And was that ID bearing surface square to the rest of the drum on yours? Mine wasn't hence the wobble on one and on the other the bearing surface was actually off center. Not even sure how they accomplished that.


----------



## davhul

Looks like he chucked it to the sprocket hub. Would that check that both are true even to each other?


----------



## trboxman

davhul said:


> Looks like he chucked it to the sprocket hub. Would that check that both are true even to each other?



I chucked to the sprocket hub, and yes that would check both as the OD and ID of the sprocket hub are parallel to each other unless they screwed up the bore on that too. He's describing a failure to get the sprocket hub correctly mounted to the drum during braising, that's both a mfg defect and a failure of QA as it should be visibly wrong on cursory inspection. This part is in no way a high precision part else it would be mfg'd differently.


----------



## Ash UK Chopper

Cooking on gas now....


----------



## frag-88

Ash UK Chopper said:


> Cooking on gas now.... View attachment 546527


Where to buy? It is for vacuum and pressure?


----------



## Definitive Dave

Great Thread Guys
I have a couple quick thoughts on the aftermarket 660 kits and Huztl in general - I read up a little here, now and then but don't post as much as I once did.
Alibaba is bigger than ebay and google and amazon combined, I don't do business there often but have found new vendors there in the past.
Farmertec, Arbortec, Huztl are all the same company, out of the same building, they have several other seller names on Ebay for other countries (which seems to violate the Ebay terms of service but...whatever).
All of the "manufacturers" putting bundles together will freely substitute a different part if they can find it cheaper or run out of their current stock, so never count on anything you read to be 100% accurate.
As @weimedog has shown there are at least 4 different big bore MS660 cylinders from Farmertec et al in the last year alone and if they get a better price on them you can bet there will be 4 more next year.
All the great info in this thread should serve as a guide, not as gospel for that reason.
Your individual business means little to these "importers", there are companies that spend $100K annually with Farmertec and we get the same mumbly mouthed half answers and excuses, the only places with enough clout to get things done are the HLSupplys, Baileys, etc of the world who buy multiple shipping containers of parts each month.

I have a race saw built on the Clone660 by a great builder and there were a handful of parts that didnt hold up to even rudimentary race testing.
He had me send an OEM piston, cylinder, circlips, piston pin, bearings (all), flywheel, ignition coil, crankshaft (this was before the good cranks were available from NWP in Taiwan, the FT cranks suuuuck), rope rotor and pawls, we also swapped to Caber rings for a little more compression.
I need to get that puppy out and make some videos with some of my other ported 1122s.

If anyone needs an earlier good 660 crankcase I think i have more than a dozen left in stock.
Capitalist Dave


----------



## brad ruch

Has anyone done the new husqvarna 365 372 kit from hutzel??i may want to build one

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## Bedford T

Check out this tach. Should be part of our tool kit. Looks like .5 refresh or almost instant in some frames.
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/new-stihl-edt9-tach-just-came-in.304559/


----------



## Andyshine77

Definitive Dave said:


> I have a race saw built on the Clone660 by a great builder and there were a handful of parts that didnt hold up to even rudimentary race testing.
> He had me send an OEM piston, cylinder, circlips, piston pin, bearings (all), flywheel, ignition coil, crankshaft (this was before the good cranks were available from NWP in Taiwan, the FT cranks suuuuck), rope rotor and pawls, we also swapped to Caber rings for a little more compression.
> I need to get that puppy out and make some videos with some of my other ported 1122s.
> 
> If anyone needs an earlier good 660 crankcase I think i have more than a dozen left in stock.
> Capitalist Dave



So basically the handles, covers and case were aftermarket, everything else was oem? 

My initial interest in these kits has diminish substantially. Still fun projects to burn some time on without a doubt. But when it comes down to it, the end product still sounds pretty much like junk, unless you have a bunch of oem parts already on hand, otherwise they end up nickel and diming you to death. 

Yet for some unknown reason i still many give one a shot.[emoji6]


----------



## Ash UK Chopper

frag-88 said:


> Where to buy? It is for vacuum and pressure?


It is for vacuum and pressure and its an ebay special.... You can see loads of different makes but it's the same dance


----------



## Bedford T

Andyshine77 said:


> So basically the handles, covers and case were aftermarket, everything else was oem?
> 
> My initial interest in these kits has diminish substantially. Still fun projects to burn some time on without a doubt. But when it comes down to it, the end product still sounds pretty much like junk, unless you have a bunch of oem parts already on hand, otherwise they end up nickel and diming you to death.
> 
> Yet for some unknown reason i still many give one a shot.[emoji6]



That's a lot of people having fun with the kits. You may not have noticed it right in your face but Dave sells the very stuff in the kits you call junk and we buy and play with it. Did you see the new 440 kit. Big but not huge


----------



## Bedford T

Ash UK Chopper said:


> It is for vacuum and pressure and its an ebay special.... You can see loads of different makes but it's the same dance


Are you far enough along to Have done your testing?


----------



## Andyshine77

Bedford T said:


> That's a lot of people having fun with the kits. You may not have noticed it right in your face but Dave sells the very stuff in the kits you call junk and we buy and play with it. Did you see the new 440 kit. Big but not huge


The fun part is the exact reason I will likely end up with one some day. Not doubt a bunch of fun putting a saw together from a box of parts.

I don't know or care who sells these kits, that had nothing to do with my post. The fact is these aftermarket parts kits are what they are, and this thread pretty much sums it all up, that's all I was saying.


----------



## Bedford T

We like fun!


----------



## Definitive Dave

Andyshine77 said:


> So basically the handles, covers and case were aftermarket, everything else was oem?



Aftermarket used - crankcase, all the brake components, muffler (duel port cover), tank handle, top handle, top cover, air filter cover, all the carb box fittings, intake tract, fuel and impulse lines, decomp plug, clutch cover, recoil*, tensioner, bar studs, oil pump and gear, av buffers and covers, sprocket, rim, all fasteners, grommets, wiring

OEM parts swapped out and why
cylinder - most builders want oem cylinders because they already have numbers they build to and a different cylinder means making a new roadmap, any cylinder can be made to run well
piston - lighter and again a known quantity
piston pin - much lighter and tapered slightly - nobody builds a better piston pin than the thin wall Stihl pin, they are commonly swapped into all brand saws for performance builds
bearings - when a saw spins 16,000+ only the best bearings will do
clutch - again at high speed, far beyond stock you want top quality
pawl spring and pawls - at 250+ compression the little spring bends out from the center and allows the pawls to come loose
ignition - builder wanted the earlier aluminum flywheel and ignition coil for the better timing options offered, these are different from the AM components which mimic the MS660
carburetor - we used a new OEM Walbro WJ-69 with a .074 main jet, the aftermarket carbs do not have removable jets
Caber rings - best in the business for most applications, better than OEM in many cases
air filter - I sent him the felt covered metal Farmertec filter (HD style), he didnt like how it sealed so I sent an OEM HD2 which i dont think is as good as the Farmertec HD2 replacement

Dave


----------



## Bedford T

Definitive Dave said:


> the aftermarket carbs do not have removable jets



the carb that comes with the 660 kit has a replaceable jet, or most of them do. not everyone has posted so it hard to know.


----------



## davhul

I think some had a removable jet and some didn't. All mine did and I drilled them. The .62mm jet was almost 2 turns out on the adjustment.
Edit .62


----------



## davhul

SlurpJ said:


> Good to know, as you can see no jet. I might have to pull it apart some more and figure out how it works. Or did I get a paperweight....
> 
> View attachment 543579



Slurpj didn't have a replaceable jet in his.


----------



## Bedford T

yea, that was recent post?


----------



## davhul

Think page 23. couple weeks


----------



## Bedford T

page 23 was in Sept i did not see it


----------



## davhul

Post 1142 12/14


----------



## Bedford T

so that might tell us when they made the other recent changes, new suppliers were used. i bet the earlier ones were as i said.


----------



## MustangMike

Question ... How are the Oilers holding up on these saws, any problems?

Thanks. Got to order for another saw, and just want some feedback.


----------



## trboxman

davhul said:


> I think some had a removable jet and some didn't. All mine did and I drilled them. The .062 jet was almost 2 turns out on the adjustment.



Are the .062 and .074 in inches or mm?


----------



## davhul

Yes mm


----------



## trboxman

That's what I seemed to recall, but I don't trust my memory much these days.


----------



## davhul

MustangMike said:


> Question ... How are the Oilers holding up on these saws, any problems?
> 
> Thanks. Got to order for another saw, and just want some feedback.



The one that my buddy is running seems to oil ok. Not near as much as my 064 but not much does. It oils just as good not running. Lol


----------



## 93Dakman!

Can an 090 be put together from parts. I noticed that huztl has nearly 100 pieces parts for the 090 listed, no screws or hardware though...

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## 93Dakman!

I just added all of the parts up to a total of $512. That's without bolts, screws and what ever else is missing. Looks like it would be cheaper and better for the long run to buy a genuine used 090.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


----------



## weimedog

Is this a source of those older "square" base 56mm kits?? or are these the same as those "junk" ones I had from another source...not liking the big chamfer taking sealing surface away in the pic though..
http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-56mm-Big-Bore-Cylinder-Piston-Assembly-kit-fit-for-Stihl-066-MS660-Chainsaw/172412802818?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid=2220071&algo=SIC.MBE&ao=2&asc=38530&meid=4c0877f87b594a70ad71be44f37a74f6&pid=100005&rk=6&rkt=6&sd=222357844246
I have seen at least five obvious different variants in these 56mm top ends now..., really prefer the first ones I had got from Huztl 1.2, 2 years ago although just got one from Definitive Dave's store that is of the same casting style as the new Huztls, only everything is concentric. I Have to admit while the current batch from Huztl may not be as pretty, as demonstrated by "bling saw", they run just fine. I See the new "velocity" stack. Gen two has grooves to help hold the air filter it seems.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stihl-Chain...-Elf-Velocity-Stack-Made-in-USA-/322251934455

AND BTW the only way to see what I was concerned about with clutch drum run out is measuring from the bore axis for the bearing relative to outside diameter of the drum and splines for the sprocket. Thats whats critical anyway. If the bearing bore axis is either off center and axially out of alignment, the resultant "distance" change with crank rotation, the chain from a slightly loose to slightly tighter state every revolution...like mine did. I did notice...so I kept adjusting to make it work as I needed to cut & just grab a work saw as time is compressed. Figured...what the hell can't hurt much. Ran that for a while. Took a while and maybe it didn't matter. Maybe it did, either way last weekend the roller tip on the bar came apart. Granted bore cutting may have effected this and everything was icy and dirty. But that wobble couldn't have helped.

In retrospect, having that part concentric probably lessens the stress on both the bar and the main bearings...so maybe over analyzing...(who me??) but I am choosing to check each one now and or just go to a better option. I had a little tantrum and bought one from the local Stihl dealer..posted here with predictable results...lol, So.....how many of these builds have enough time on them to wear out a couple of chains? Thats a poll I would be interested in seeing. In my little set, the ones I personally use and the couple I have "lent" out there are 3 of the 4 I keep track of that not only have worn out a few chains, (Definition of worn out is filed to the point where you can't file or sharpen them anymore and they go to the scrap bin) but one has now blown up a bar tip...impatient operator error? or mechanical failure...that is the question. My answer....take away variables that common sense say my increase the chance of failure. Be interesting to hear for you folks as time goes on the experience and things that actually wear and/or fail in the actual service life over time. So far with mine the plastic get ugly unless plenty of pledge & elbow grease is applied and that rubber piece on top between the covers gets a hole worn in it, the decomps loose their plastic piece, and the sprockets wear pretty fast. But those saws make chips in a hurry!

Yet another little tib bit of information, I went back to a couple of the 660's to check the chain adjust...and the case castings on the ones I didn't have issues with had....predictably smaller slots. AND to add confusion, ONE of the earliest ones still had the AM adjuster and the SHAFT diameter was actually large to the point (Same dia as OEM) it didn't make sense to add either an OEM adjuster or a bushing on that saw. Then I had a run of threes where the AM adjusters failed immediately but OEM adjusters worked perfectly so there is and was no reason to add a bushing, this when I was putting together video's. So to this point in time only ONE of five actually needed a bushing. Of course it was this latest build and therefore representative of the current cases. I put a bushing anyway on the other "frequently used 56mm saw" that has a OEM adjuster and...its tighter but might be a solution to a problem it didn't have. SO like the clutch drums, and the cylinders, this is one of those deals where its possible you actually don't need to change things as these things are a constantly moving target, but if you do solutions are there and relatively easy. ME?? Once burned, twice shy. I just hard code into the next build the worst case lessons from the last. OEM adjuster, Better Clutch drum....AND a bushing in the adjuster if required. Looks to me a bushing might make the AM usable supported by a prior post here from someone who has done that. Save a few bucks?? why not. If it wears....then there always is OEM for better metal and if the case casting has those wider slots...a bushing.

What an AWESOME jigsaw puzzle these things are, don't you think so?? After the shop is built, hoping to try a "038" kit.. Looks to me like this "project" is in good hands... Time to move on.


----------



## MustangMike

So, no comments on the oilers??? Are the just working OK???


----------



## davhul

I'm not sure what "version"cases you have that the oem adjuster worked better. But all three of mine and several others the oem adjuster made the stripping worse due to the oem gear being smaller in Diameter than the huztl. Seems huztl tried fixing the wide groove problem with a gear machined larger. They failed 
Huztl gear





Oem gear


----------



## davhul

MustangMike said:


> So, no comments on the oilers??? Are the just working OK???



The two I used worked fine for now.


----------



## Bedford T

davhul said:


> I'm not sure what "version"cases you have that the oem adjuster worked better. But all three of mine and several others the oem adjuster made the stripping worse due to the oem gear being smaller in Diameter than the huztl. Seems huztl tried fixing the wide groove problem with a gear machined larger. They failed
> Huztl gear
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oem gear


Did your fix cure it on the Huztl gear


----------



## weimedog

davhul said:


> I'm not sure what "version"cases you have that the oem adjuster worked better. But all three of mine and several others the oem adjuster made the stripping worse due to the oem gear being smaller in Diameter than the huztl. Seems huztl tried fixing the wide groove problem with a gear machined larger. They failed
> Huztl gear
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oem gear



Problem is there aren't definable....versions of these parts. Just the batches that they are currently selling. So the ones I have that are working with OEM adjusters had smaller slots...and I doubt you will ever see them again, but who knows, you might. My 56mm saw in the video's works just fine with the OEM adjuster and has for over a year now while the original AM wore out within 4 or five tanks and several re-adjusts. Simple as that. Empirical data. Bet that saw has more time than most saws in these threads. and probably as much as many here combined. Take it leave it but thats my real time experience. You are dealing with another batch of product obviously different than mine. All the caliper pictures in the world can't change that or the experience I have had with the saws here, BUT your current experience and solutions can help the folks in this time with the parts sold and available to get theirs moving. Which is why its time for me to move along. Just reporting....simple as that. I literally took five apart last evening to see if they needed bushings...and found ONLY the current one did. SO my data samples cover 2 years. Most from 2014/15 only one 2016. I have 9 built so far. I track 4 have access to 5, the others are available if I go to them. AND my point is what happens next year, the year after? That's why it is a check first, then decide. Really want to see you argue that point... Why..OEM sometimes is the best way as things ARE more constant from year to year, but now even with OEM there isn't a guarantee. And the funny thing is on my early saws, it turns out in retrospect, it WASN'T the dimensions that created the issue it was the material. Here with this group of parts its the dimensions that exacerbate an already nasty issue, but possibly the current AM parts have a good enough material. A moving target. Bottom line? understand that these are a moving target. AND did you measure the OEM "worm gear" Are both smaller?? If so, then the solution in this time and place is simply to bush the AM's ....which would be a good one. And as an ex manufacturing engineer....I can say the value of these threads are about finding and showing to solutions as they arise, but you can't assume ALL these saws will have ALL those problems exactly as you see them in this point in time. The issue is folks want to think of these as absolutes...they aren't As I've seen with the damn cylinders...this stuff is amorphous. So you may want to be the oracle on this series..but unless you span all the many permutations, all you can be is the oracle of a certain time frame. All good stuff...but some problems solved now might be relevant next year and others may arise. Others may not be there......Why my dealer friends go nuts with this stuff. They want to order a part number and get exactly the same thing day in day, year in year out....not happening here. CERTAINLY not happening with AM supply houses, and as I found with my John Deere tractor even green parts with the Greene name are falling into the abyss of universal AM in Greene boxes....but as I said. Over and out. Obviously its awesome you folks continue to adapt and develop as these things evolve, awesome talent engaged here. Please report real running time and experience as I am interested the service life...wear and tear. Living with them over time. I have two in the "pro logging" world now. One with a guy who sells firewood for a living. I plan to check in time to time with wear updates. Just raw data. looking forward to the war stories and tales of creative genius to make these survive the test of time....


----------



## davhul

That's the problem the AM needs to get right before they sell a product. At least try the product out before they sell it. I don't don't care to be their Guinea pig even though the kit was cheap. A chain adjuster that doesn't work with the gear they supplied or oem is a major problem. If I can't tighten the chain then it's almost trash from my perspective. All I can say for everyone is try it and if it doesn't work try the cheap bushing or come up with something else or deal with a stripped adjuster.


----------



## tbohn

MustangMike said:


> So, no comments on the oilers??? Are the just working OK???


The couple of tanks through mine I thought I would like to see more oil and I was only running a 20 inch bar.


----------



## Bedford T

Wonder what pump size is in use. I do not recall that aspect discussed


----------



## Bedford T

Don't hit me but do you have the adjuster turned up?


----------



## weimedog

tbohn said:


> The couple of tanks through mine I thought I would like to see more oil and I was only running a 20 inch bar.


And mine all gush oil. About a one to one ratio with the fuel tanks....and the are GAS hogs... Have to check that goofy little rubber at the end of the pump...another one of those parts I've seen variations in but to this point they all have worked. Also bars...I have all total brand on mine.


----------



## weimedog

davhul said:


> That's the problem the AM needs to get right before they sell a product. At least try the product out before they sell it. I don't don't care to be their Guinea pig even though the kit was cheap. A chain adjuster that doesn't work with the gear they supplied or oem is a major problem. If I can't tighten the chain then it's almost trash from my perspective. All I can say for everyone is try it and if it doesn't work try the cheap bushing or come up with something else or deal with a stripped adjuster.


It's a universal issue...I got into these damn things because I was infact doing statistical analysis for a friend. THESE I just stumbled into and here we are. I went away from the 372's because there was just so much junk being sold out there...some totally unusable. I would order the same cylinder from the same supply house...and in three boxes literally had three different cylinders. One actually was OK...the 52mm Huztl. SO that was the genesis of "Huztl 372" and "Cyclops", both my test saws for those 52mm top ends. And I gravitated to Huztl Simply because I ordered several and got the same damn thing! And they all ran pretty well. SO the next question was being Husqvarma/Jonsered and needing a supply source for other brands, and Stihl 046/460-066/660's are very common here, I tried the place I had reasonable success with, by passed the others and landed here with these 660's. Turned out to be reasonably repeatable...and fun. Hence the first video's But by then I already had a year or so time to reflect on these parts...and now things are changing again. I already have more saws and more MS660's than I can possibly wear out in a life time..I don't and won't resell them, so I lend them out to friends and those I do repair work for. That's how I get the best feed back. Problem is I adjust to a saw. So I'm NOT a good test case as I work around issues..and if I like the saw I DON'T CARE therefor am not objective anymore. I like these Farmertec MS660's . A lot. So Moving to acquire the original OEM's for project/restoration/collection saws now as this is a hobby, and the two FT 56mm's are firmly implanted into the work rotation for the foreseeable future. Much to the chagrin of my saw buds. Two 54mm's for back up. Will probably run that set of saw until "Aurthur" says I can't anymore. Time to move along.


----------



## tbohn

Bedford T said:


> Don't hit me but do you have the adjuster turned up?


I maxed it out. It was oiling adequately. I can't say the bar was dry but nothing like my little echo 400. That little saw sprays a fan of oil from the tip!

Speaking of bars, has anyone tried the Forester Platinum series bars? I just ordered one and it looks nice. It has a single rivet replaceable nose sprocket. It was only $42 shipped.


----------



## davhul

So I guess a year ago the kits were better? Sounds like their backing up. HUZTL doesn't promo me or give me free parts to test so what I buy and receive is all I have to go on. I will be honest I thought the kit went together better than I expected but I'm not blind to the problems. Who know how many case's were made like mine and 7 other kits I know of like mine. I couldn't care less about them as I'm sure they don't about me and my 3 kits. How about the master control lever and it not stopping at half throttle and goes straight to idle. Is that just my kits.


----------



## Bedford T

I had to adjust my throttle as well


----------



## weimedog

davhul said:


> So I guess a year ago the kits were better? .



Different. Not necessarily better. Better in that one spot....and who knows? Next year they can have all that stuff improved. Certainly worth the time to debug as we have all found out. Just as I have said many times, you have to go into these with the expectation there will be little things to work around...AND every one to this point in time HAVE been solvable issues. So for the money along with mechanical skills such as you have, these can be pretty impressive machines.


----------



## MustangMike

Thanks for the feedback guys, just wanted to make sure their oilers work OK before ordering a part for another model.


----------



## tbohn

davhul said:


> So I guess a year ago the kits were better? Sounds like their backing up. HUZTL doesn't promo me or give me free parts to test so what I buy and receive is all I have to go on. I will be honest I thought the kit went together better than I expected but I'm not blind to the problems. Who know how many case's were made like mine and 7 other kits I know of like mine. I couldn't care less about them as I'm sure they don't about me and my 3 kits. How about the master control lever and it not stopping at half throttle and goes straight to idle. Is that just my kits.


All 7 of my kits have the master control issue. I have not looked at a solution yet because they all start fine without the half throttle position.


----------



## Bedford T

The solution is in the thread, a couple actually


----------



## Ash UK Chopper

Bedford T said:


> Are you far enough along to Have done your testing?


Not yet, I'm waiting on the carb baffle and such. Won't be here until late next week. 

I'll do some pictures and that once it's here


----------



## trboxman

tbohn said:


> All 7 of my kits have the master control issue. I have not looked at a solution yet because they all start fine without the half throttle position.



I've had good success in getting the half choke position by taking the master control & trigger out and cutting away all of the casting flash with a razor knife. I hit each of the contact points with a dry silicone spray when I reassemble.


----------



## 67L36Driver

tbohn said:


> All 7 of my kits have the master control issue. I have not looked at a solution yet because they all start fine without the half throttle position.



The 'one lever does everything' is problematic on most of the Stihl saws I have come thru my garage.

The MS361 kit I put together would go from fast idle back to full choke when you squeezed the trigger. Result was a flooded engine. [emoji37]

I replaced the Farmertec switch rod with an OEM. That solved the problem.

Why? 
I can't say as close inspection revealed no difference in the parts that I could see.[emoji848]

Maybe I just operated it often enuff 'till it found its happy spot.


----------



## davhul

67L36Driver said:


> The 'one lever does everything' is problematic on most of the Stihl saws I have come thru my garage.


 most of the time the fix for the oem home owner saws that the switch pops out is to ease the tension from the contact spring a little.


----------



## Bedford T

Lol


----------



## 67L36Driver

davhul said:


> most of the time the fix for the oem home owner saws that the switch pops out is to ease the tension from the contact spring a little.



Yes, I've bent on some 'till the air turned blue.[emoji35]
Then got a new spring to fix 'em.[emoji849]


----------



## thompson1600

This was an interesting read.


----------



## Definitive Dave

Farmertec says they are planning full replacement parts for these models by end of 2017 

STIHL MS180,MS192T,MS200T,MS250,MS260,MS290,MS360,MS361,MS380,MS440,MS460,MS660,070, FS55, FS85, MS251, 028, MS362, MS461, TS400, TS410/TS420, FS550
HUSQVARNA 137, 142, 55, 268, 272, 288, 350, 357, 365, 372, 445/450, 455/460, 262, 346

also some new cheap versions of some stihl and husky specialty tools

who knows how much is true or what will be good and bad, but its always fun to find out


----------



## Bedford T

Top handles, trimmers, saws


----------



## Philbert

Definitive Dave said:


> Farmertec says they are planning full replacement parts for these models by end of 2017


Wonder if Hutzl has a 'learning curve' for each kit?

Several posts have mentioned changes / improvements in the MS660 kits - maybe being the first one to try the new models is a bit '_adventurous_'?

Interested to see what tools are offered.

Philbert


----------



## Bedford T

Likely moving to a trimmer blower concrete saw top handle saws. That will be different


----------



## Bedford T

I bought the double sided flywheel remover they sell and it worked great. The splitter they now sell is lame compared to the Stihl tools and they seek a arm and leg for it


----------



## Bedford T

I would love to assemble a top handle


----------



## Philbert

Definitive Dave said:


> Farmertec says they are planning full replacement parts for these models by end of 2017


You thinking of carrying some of these Dave?

Philbert


----------



## trboxman

Bedford T said:


> I bought the double sided flywheel remover they sell and it worked great. The splitter they now sell is lame compared to the Stihl tools and they seek a arm and leg for it



To be fair the Stihl case splitter is about half price at a dealer (if you can get them to sell it to you) as it is on Ebay etc.


----------



## Bedford T

Honesty,


----------



## weimedog

[QUOTE="Definitive Dave, post: 6100564, member: 116131"
HUSQVARNA 137, 142, 55, 268, 272, 288,

who knows how much is true or what will be good and bad, but its always fun to find out[/QUOTE]

Be fun to have a 288 "alternative "


----------



## weimedog

Definitive Dave said:


> Great Thread Guys
> I need to get that puppy out and make some videos with some of my other ported 1122s.
> 
> If anyone needs an earlier good 660 crankcase I think i have more than a dozen left in stock.
> Capitalist Dave


Look what came in the mail from this place...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/222318574079?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

And yet another possible source:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/142179949929

But WHO manufactures these cylinders...with a few changes they could be awesome.


----------



## Bedford T

ok fellas how would you like to have stihl tools at dealers cost plus some number maybe 25%. the tools on ebay have a 100% mark up and if we want to build saws we need affordable tools. so lets take the a look at how much actual interest there is in these tools if they were priced with a small markup and i will work my magic and see what we can do about buying them. i encourage you to call your dealer with the same part numbers you send me. you should buy local if you can and if not we will have the group.

lets do some comparisons and make building saws affordable.

we need to pull the cases part and these two tools would take care of splitting and pulling them together. big saws, little saws
i found on ebay
* 5910-007-2201* selling for 222 shipped quick. how would 125$ for the stihl tool sound and then the 7 or 12$ priority shipping boxes depending on size etc. on that one tool it would save you enough money to almost buy the other side

* 5910-007-2222* selling for 222 shipped quick and i think we can get it for about the same cost 125$ and handle shipping the same way.
there are others that we can do better on too.

carb tools? flanges, flywheel pullers exhaust block offs
*5910 850 4200* this flange is for the pressure test on a 660 and others. i paid 10$ at my dealer and its on the internet for 38$
*5910-890-4501* this does its best work working hoses off barbs and limiter caps 24.5 on internet 14$

so if you would like to make a list of the stihl tools you are interested in and their part number, put the most wanted tools at the top of your list. if you can not find the p# a photo of the tool is ok and send it to me in a pm. i will see if we can make a one time group purchase and see where it goes. there might need to be some limitation and but maybe not. i will work on it and notify you. this could fall flat on its face, and on the other hand i might be able to pull it off. it would be sweet

i will use the messages i get until sunday 1/1/17 evening midnight to work with. give me a week to put something together, next Saturday 1/7/17 should give me enough time. also call your local dealer with the parts list and get their price. tips call all the dealers in your area start with gold dealer. ask for parts dont beg just or beat around bush read off the part number and ask for a price do no ask for the last tool above they will tell you NO not anything to do with carbs


----------



## thompson1600

I certainly would have bought some at those prices, however, I already paid higher prices and have those tools. I am looking to find a Stihl USG grinder, but can't find one at a dealer who doesn't want inflated pricing. I would be purchasing lots of tools and parts if they were reasonably priced, and not severely inflated.

*0000-890-1701* Pressure/vacuum test kit
5910 890 2212 12mm piston circlip install tool
not sure what the Stihl USG and foot control part numbers are

Thanks

Tom


----------



## Definitive Dave

weimedog said:


> Look what came in the mail from this place...
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/222318574079?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
> 
> And yet another possible source:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/142179949929
> 
> But WHO manufactures these cylinders...with a few changes they could be awesome.
> 
> View attachment 546947


I like how they use a common dollar sign so that it looks like the KoblenSchmidt logo at first glance, pretty sneaky and underhanded but probably not anything KS can do about it.
I might head over to China in 2017 to try to put eyeballs on factories, etc. but the officially sanctioned events just put buyers in basically a city of salesmen.
I might find new vendors but I am not sure I would really learn anything.


----------



## weimedog

Definitive Dave said:


> I like how they use a common dollar sign so that it looks like the KoblenSchmidt logo at first glance, pretty sneaky and underhanded but probably not anything KS can do about it.
> I might head over to China in 2017 to try to put eyeballs on factories, etc. but the officially sanctioned events just put buyers in basically a city of salesmen.
> I might find new vendors but I am not sure I would really learn anything.



Would be an interesting trip. Spent many years traveling to "manufacturing" facilities over (both) seas selling & supporting Cad/Cam and later software development tools to build Cad/Cam/Graphics systems along with ..ahem.."consulting" on how best to integrate the higher technology into their business models ...especially in the "pacific rim".. Was an eye opening experience to say the least. Filled a couple of passports with stamps. And at one point or another had to train folks from how to add and subtract fractions (those in the decimal world) to how to programs five axis machine tools to cut plastic injection molds, from how to build a user interface, to link and compile DLL's with their c++ development environment, to deciding which spline algorithm best models the shapes important to them within the b-rep modeler chosen as their modeling system environment. Just an old man...
The capability is more than there at this point to make pretty much anything. Has been for a while. I think folks might be surprised at how much has been moved from "traditional" places to the pacific rim...without being specific. AND some of those places with a little guidance can, and I suspect will; over time put a "dent" in the traditional thinking.... One thing I learned pretty quickly as a young man in that role, is there is NO shortage of very smart, creative, and talented folks in this world.


----------



## weimedog

http://www.ebay.com/itm/STIHL-FLYWH...709891?hash=item43dc9744c3:g:vx8AAOSwvzRX16VR


----------



## weimedog

Nice BTW...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stihl-Husqv...087800?hash=item4b017675b8:g:omoAAOSw9eVXXFiy


----------



## weimedog

And the Stihl version..Genuine Stihl Chainsaw Mounting Tool 5910 007 2222....what maybe $120? For five more dollars support a local enthusiast! but if you don't have access... These guys seem to have a selection.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/231189817569?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT


----------



## Bedford T

Going to the dealer is what I recommended. Overseas is another option but with shipping that puts it at 115$. The 7$ tool works I own one.

The 150$ tool only splits the case @ twice cost of the Huztl tool. Might fit more saws I would not know.


----------



## davhul

weimedog said:


> Nice BTW...
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stihl-Husqv...087800?hash=item4b017675b8:g:omoAAOSw9eVXXFiy



Is made nice. Kinda high with the collars to pull the case together missing


----------



## Bedford T

It's opposite day!


----------



## weimedog

davhul said:


> Is made nice. Kinda high with the collars to pull the case together missing


But conceivably works on all those Husqvarna's with case stuffers. Like the 575/576's, that would be valuable to a "multi-brand" enthusiast like me...


----------



## Bedford T

Gosh if this was just a husky thread


----------



## weimedog

davhul said:


> Is made nice. Kinda high with the collars to pull the case together missing


Could it be slightly modified?


----------



## weimedog

Bedford T said:


> Going to the dealer is what I recommended. Overseas is another option but with shipping that puts it at 115$. The 7$ tool works I own one.
> 
> The 150$ tool only splits the case @ twice cost of the Huztl tool. Might fit more saws I would not know.


Does Huztl have one of these for "stuffer" crank saws? Or are you thinking the "c-clamp" style that ONLY works on saws w/o stuffers AND is a little narrow for the 660's?


----------



## Bedford T

I offered what I offered to help. It's Stihl, I mentioned the 7$ tool. It is all a choice. You should know what Huztl sells they are on your lips and in your videos full-time. 

I buy farmertec and the last time it was from Abortec. I am not sure what all they sell. Go and check it out.


----------



## davhul

It's been a while since I screwed the screw out but I think I remember there's left and right hand threads threaded on it


----------



## Bedford T

This one is damaged but yeah


----------



## Bedford T

This is the 660 sleeve that attaches to the second set of threads


----------



## weimedog

Bedford T said:


> I offered what I offered to help. It's Stihl, I mentioned the 7$ tool. It is all a choice. You should know what Huztl sells they are on your lips and in your videos full-time.
> 
> I buy farmertec and the last time it was from Abortec. I am not sure what all they sell. Go and check it out.


Actually...I know their MS460 & 660 parts and Husqvarna 350, 372 offerings ...thats pretty much the extent as that was where my research focused. Since I'm not trying to build a store or become an online source of parts, there was no reason to expand that search or knowledge set past my project saws. Just a few of us crazies having fun with these 660's. Hoping to research whats available for the 034-038 set of saws from them and others. I'll let folks like Definitive Dave go and dig through all those places many and varied product offerings...hopefully they sort out what good and its worth a few bucks to know thats in fact happening therefore reduces the chances of disappointment.


----------



## Bedford T

weimedog said:


> Does Huztl have one of these for "stuffer" crank saws? Or are you thinking the "c-clamp" style that ONLY works on saws w/o stuffers AND is a little narrow for the 660's?



See when you ask this kinda question I gotta wonder.


----------



## weimedog

Bedford T said:


> See when you ask this kinda question I gotta wonder.


Wonder what...I work on a lot of different saws, and use parts from a lot of sources. Fact is the c-clamp they sell is limited in its saw capability. And since I work on more than a few that they DON'T work on, I asked if they had added a product...simple as that, as I don't have time to dig through all their's or anyone else stuff. ALSO I have a complete set of Husqvarna shop tools for all the Jonsered/Husqvarna's I work on, so I really have no need to hunt for options... So...what is it you wonder.


----------



## Bedford T

weimedog said:


> I'll let folks like Definitive Dave go and dig through all those places many and varied product offerings...hopefully they sort out what good and its worth a few bucks to know thats in fact happening therefore reduces the chances of disappointment.



Markup can go off a cliff


----------



## weimedog

Bedford T said:


> Markup can go off a cliff


So...there is an opportunity for you...go for it and that can make folks life a little easier. A good thing.


----------



## tbohn

weimedog said:


> Look what came in the mail from this place...
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/222318574079?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
> 
> And yet another possible source:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/142179949929
> 
> But WHO manufactures these cylinders...with a few changes they could be awesome.
> 
> View attachment 546947


When will you be able to get the timing numbers on the new cylinder?


----------



## brandonstc6

Definitive Dave said:


> Farmertec says they are planning full replacement parts for these models by end of 2017
> 
> STIHL MS180,MS192T,MS200T,MS250,MS260,MS290,MS360,MS361,MS380,MS440,MS460,MS660,070, FS55, FS85, MS251, 028, MS362, MS461, TS400, TS410/TS420, FS550
> HUSQVARNA 137, 142, 55, 268, 272, 288, 350, 357, 365, 372, 445/450, 455/460, 262, 346
> 
> also some new cheap versions of some stihl and husky specialty tools
> 
> who knows how much is true or what will be good and bad, but its always fun to find out



Do you know if they will come out with any MS261 parts. I am hoping for them to come out with coils and wrap handles


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Definitive Dave

I sell a ton of those flywheel knockers from Farmertec, they are "sloppy" in that they don't have the tight tolerance of the Stihl version but they are about 1/4 the cost so well worth it for weekend warriors.
That CNC case splitter is totally US designed and built here in Ohio at a machine shop by a chainsaw enthusiast/machinist, I should modify the listing to provide those details.
The nuts are chamfered to allow the splitting of every case we tried (and it was a lot). 
It is, in my opinion, and by design, better than the Stihl or Husky splitters.
I bought husky style splitters from farmertec when they first released them more than a year ago but ended up giving them all away because they are so heavy that with shipping they were close to OEM price by the time they got to the customer.
I try not to sell things where I dont make money 
No mention of more MS261 parts, i would guess coils might be reasonable but I doubt they ever do a wrap handle honestly.


----------



## blsnelling

Bedford T said:


> ok fellas how would you like to have stihl tools at dealers cost plus some number maybe 25%. the tools on ebay have a 100% mark up and if we want to build saws we need affordable tools. so lets take the a look at how much actual interest there is in these tools if they were priced with a small markup and i will work my magic and see what we can do about buying them. i encourage you to call your dealer with the same part numbers you send me. you should buy local if you can and if not we will have the group.
> 
> lets do some comparisons and make building saws affordable.
> 
> we need to pull the cases part and these two tools would take care of splitting and pulling them together. big saws, little saws
> i found on ebay
> * 5910-007-2201* selling for 222 shipped quick. how would 125$ for the stihl tool sound and then the 7 or 12$ priority shipping boxes depending on size etc. on that one tool it would save you enough money to almost buy the other side
> 
> * 5910-007-2222* selling for 222 shipped quick and i think we can get it for about the same cost 125$ and handle shipping the same way.
> there are others that we can do better on too.
> 
> carb tools? flanges, flywheel pullers exhaust block offs
> *5910 850 4200* this flange is for the pressure test on a 660 and others. i paid 10$ at my dealer and its on the internet for 38$
> *5910-890-4501* this does its best work working hoses off barbs and limiter caps 24.5 on internet 14$
> 
> so if you would like to make a list of the stihl tools you are interested in and their part number, put the most wanted tools at the top of your list. if you can not find the p# a photo of the tool is ok and send it to me in a pm. i will see if we can make a one time group purchase and see where it goes. there might need to be some limitation and but maybe not. i will work on it and notify you. this could fall flat on its face, and on the other hand i might be able to pull it off. it would be sweet
> 
> i will use the messages i get until sunday 1/1/17 evening midnight to work with. give me a week to put something together, next Saturday 1/7/17 should give me enough time. also call your local dealer with the parts list and get their price. tips call all the dealers in your area start with gold dealer. ask for parts dont beg just or beat around bush read off the part number and ask for a price do no ask for the last tool above they will tell you NO not anything to do with carbs


I don't get it. Why would you buy cheap copies of a real chainsaw, then spend big money on OEM tools that aren't even required to put these together?


----------



## Philbert

CAD isn't rational. 

It's emotional. 

Philbert


----------



## Bedford T

Brad do I really need a reason? Tools are personal. In this case I use them in my hobby. They prevent frustration, increase satisfaction and allow me to smile while I work rather than grunt and cuss.

I recall wondering how to get my cases together and you told me to stick in an oven without a lot of detail and swooped back in the next morning and back tracked. Now I can put a case together with out an oven. I participated in a thread that would help even someone putting together a real stihl get it done with complete detail without tools. Or read, how having the right tool is satisfying.

I think I have answered your question. You are a great guy and you have been very helpful with me. But you seem to have these saws stuck in your craw. I hope no one would buy a oem and tear it all the way down and put it back together. Now that seems wrong. Let us have our fun and continue to pitch in when we need guidance, won't you? Lot of good has come of the fake saws that cut real wood


----------



## blsnelling

Bedford T said:


> Brad do I really need a reason? Tools are personal. In this case I use them in my hobby. They prevent frustration, increase satisfaction and allow me to smile while I work rather than grunt and cuss.
> 
> I recall wondering how to get my cases together and you told me to stick in an oven without a lot of detail and swooped back in the next morning and back tracked. Now I can put a case together with out an oven. I participated in a thread that would help even someone putting together a real stihl get it done with complete detail without tools. Or read, how having the right tool is satisfying.
> 
> I think I have answered your question. You are a great guy and you have been very helpful with me. But you seem to have these saws stuck in your craw. I hope no one would buy a oem and tear it all the way down and put it back together. Now that seems wrong. Let us have our fun and continue to pitch in when we need guidance, won't you? Lot of good has come of the fake saws that cut real wood


I do not recommend using an oven. You are likely to blister the finish on the entire case.


----------



## Bedford T

Post 263 and my 264 where i thanked you for pulling me back from the edge. 

Anyway the whole answer was with a tool it gives you a chance at having no damage, sealing completely and providing immense satisfaction. Whole point. Whether it's our beloved hobby saws or a fine Stihl.


----------



## jackjcc

I like having the tools, sure there's a lot of work around for things. I've never been happier to do seals on a saw because I have the Stihl puller. I struggled with those things using multiple short cuts, now no more. 

Anyways, I think I'll be getting the fake 660 next. I'm glad I've followed this thread closely as many have been diligent in posting their problems and work arounds. Great work everyone!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Bedford T

Brad did a video on the seal puller and I watched it. It sold me on the tools. It was an elegant solution. Not my favorite that's the silly little brake spring tool.


----------



## Philbert

I like tools.

Philbert


----------



## Chris3558

I have my MS 660 about 90% complete, need some help identifying these parts? Also, on the clutch side, I included a pic, any idea what is the hole and c'bore just below the clutch and too the left is for? Thanks.


----------



## Ozhoo

Chris3558 said:


> I have my MS 660 about 90% complete, need some help identifying these parts? Also, on the clutch side, I included a pic, any idea what is the hole and c'bore just below the clutch and too the left is for? Thanks.



Your mystery hole gets another m4 screw and D are extra rings that came pre-installed on your tank at the front AV mounts.

"A" is the bushing on the left-hand side of the chain brake. B is the inside stop on the rear/left corner of the engine.


----------



## trboxman

Chris3558 said:


> I have my MS 660 about 90% complete, need some help identifying these parts? Also, on the clutch side, I included a pic, any idea what is the hole and c'bore just below the clutch and too the left is for? Thanks.



A: extra bushing for chain brake on recoil side - not needed
B: anti-vibe bushing lower left mount on case on trigger end
C: wire clip on coil, usually mounted on coil from factory
D: front left anti-vibe bushing, mounts on the plastic center assembly

Screw hole, a screw exactly like the one above it screws in there, the head sits proud instead of being countersunk like the upper.


----------



## trboxman

Pictures too. 

Sent from a magic box in my pocket.


----------



## Chris3558

Thanks Trboxman, the pics are a big help. Have any of you had issues with the chain brake handle? Pushing it forward to lock the clutch, mine handle would hit the muffler before engaging. Its like the thru slot in the handle ear is wider than it should be?


----------



## brandonstc6

blsnelling said:


> I do not recommend using an oven. You are likely to blister the finish on the entire case.



I've never used an oven or freezer on my two 044/046 rebuilds and everything went together easily. I used a press on the bearings and a socket and a large washer on the crank seals. It was a little hard to get the cases together but I let the screws pull the halves together. Now a case splitter would have been nice to have. I may either build one or buy one when farmertec comes out with the new ones . 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BuckthornBonnie

Bedford T said:


> ok fellas how would you like to have stihl tools at dealers cost plus some number maybe 25%. the tools on ebay have a 100% mark up and if we want to build saws we need affordable tools. so lets take the a look at how much actual interest there is in these tools if they were priced with a small markup and i will work my magic and see what we can do about buying them. i encourage you to call your dealer with the same part numbers you send me. you should buy local if you can and if not we will have the group.
> 
> lets do some comparisons and make building saws affordable.
> 
> we need to pull the cases part and these two tools would take care of splitting and pulling them together. big saws, little saws
> i found on ebay
> * 5910-007-2201* selling for 222 shipped quick. how would 125$ for the stihl tool sound and then the 7 or 12$ priority shipping boxes depending on size etc. on that one tool it would save you enough money to almost buy the other side
> 
> * 5910-007-2222* selling for 222 shipped quick and i think we can get it for about the same cost 125$ and handle shipping the same way.
> there are others that we can do better on too.
> 
> carb tools? flanges, flywheel pullers exhaust block offs
> *5910 850 4200* this flange is for the pressure test on a 660 and others. i paid 10$ at my dealer and its on the internet for 38$
> *5910-890-4501* this does its best work working hoses off barbs and limiter caps 24.5 on internet 14$
> 
> so if you would like to make a list of the stihl tools you are interested in and their part number, put the most wanted tools at the top of your list. if you can not find the p# a photo of the tool is ok and send it to me in a pm. i will see if we can make a one time group purchase and see where it goes. there might need to be some limitation and but maybe not. i will work on it and notify you. this could fall flat on its face, and on the other hand i might be able to pull it off. it would be sweet
> 
> i will use the messages i get until sunday 1/1/17 evening midnight to work with. give me a week to put something together, next Saturday 1/7/17 should give me enough time. also call your local dealer with the parts list and get their price. tips call all the dealers in your area start with gold dealer. ask for parts dont beg just or beat around bush read off the part number and ask for a price do no ask for the last tool above they will tell you NO not anything to do with carbs


No.


----------



## Bedford T

You are day late


----------



## Ash UK Chopper

Chris3558 said:


> Thanks Trboxman, the pics are a big help. Have any of you had issues with the chain brake handle? Pushing it forward to lock the clutch, mine handle would hit the muffler before engaging. Its like the thru slot in the handle ear is wider than it should be?



I had the same issue, bought a genuine stihl link arm, the bit that has a chain link side plate as part of it. Solved the problem. 

If you go back about 6 pages you'll see discussion about the castings been slightly off possibly causing this issue. 

I think you're the third person I know of including me having this problem.... 

It's a ten quid part and makes the brake snappy again!


----------



## Walnutlvr

My first post here, hello all, I tried my hand at assembling one of these hutzl 660's, having been disappointed with the power of a new 391 decided to sell it and try the hutzl, a few things I ran into (not a saw expert)
1.noticed a mysterious hole in casing at the gasket line, (didnt know if should be there or not.. ends up NOT, it looked finished)
It was the reason the bar oil leaked out to half full, its now patched with rtv.
2.The flywheel didnt seem to mate tight enough . (ended up shearing the key soon after), fixed second time used better key and lapped with compound.
3. chain/sprocket cover needed to be counter bored,( slung the chain off before I realized)
4. trigger didnt hold choke closed enough to get it started, (had to crack open handle and bugger up the linkage a little to get it to close choke enough)
5. Once started, it wouldnt turn off! (kill switch didnt kill, had to add a button on side of plastic)
6. Decompression button lost its cap first use. (now its capless hopefully doesnt drop down in cylinder)
7. Guard did not engage chain brake, ran out of travel, (redneck fix, added a steel rivet to slot in guard to shorten travel, now works)

Measured squish with gasket at .040.
I was in a hurry and did not chamfer port openings, assembled as soon as it arrived , didnt have any long carbide cutters, and exhaust port snagged ring on the second tank of fuel! on a good note, it was a beast, 25" bar buried in oak just eating away. 
Hutzl sending replacements. Meantime, Meteor piston and cylinder kit just arrived and seems much better on port chamfers, rings and clips look better too.


Any advice , should i try to clean up the new meteor cylinder?


----------



## Bedford T

I don't think I seen quite that much trouble. Sorry for that. Sounds like you turned it around


----------



## tbohn

I touched up all the intake a exhaust ports on all my kits. Only one had an exhaust port edge that looked like it might catch a ring until I filed it down.


----------



## Walnutlvr

Thanks Bedford T, im trying to get a decent working saw out of it, for firewood and occasional slabbing. Want to avoid messing up this new meteor cyl piston if i can help it.


----------



## Walnutlvr

What's the best way to file those edges down for someone that doesn't have one of those close quarter right angle die grinders?


----------



## tbohn

Walnutlvr said:


> What's the best way to file those edges down for someone that doesn't have one of those close quarter right angle die grinders?


I was able to chamfer the port edge enough with small round file with a piece of hose on the end to keep the end from causing issues in the cylinder.


----------



## Chris3558

I sent a pic of some Needle file options, they are curved and with a little patience do a decent job deburring. I ran into the same issue on my chain brake. You push it forward and it hits handle hits the muffler before it engages.


----------



## Bedford T

I doubt you have the same problems with your new cylinder. I also had a problem much like yours. My rings were not involved just a piece of broken metal in about the same place.

I be willing to venture to say some 250 then 400 sandpaper rinse it with some fuel mix and you will be ready to go. Meteor is well regarded for a reason


----------



## SlurpJ

Ash UK Chopper said:


> I had the same issue, bought a genuine stihl link arm, the bit that has a chain link side plate as part of it. Solved the problem.
> 
> If you go back about 6 pages you'll see discussion about the castings been slightly off possibly causing this issue.
> 
> I think you're the third person I know of including me having this problem....
> 
> It's a ten quid part and makes the brake snappy again!



Just got my chain brake on and am having issues as well!


----------



## cstair2000

I also had issues with chain brake handle hitting muffler. But it was on the 56mm kit. Filed handle where it was hitting and now all ok.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## blsnelling

A round fine stone on a Dremel is all you need to chamfer ports. Finish up with some fine wet/dry paper.


----------



## blsnelling

Bedford T said:


> Meteor is well regarded for a reason


That is mostly in regards to their pistons. The cylinders are Asian cast.


----------



## StihlNick

Where can one of these be ordered?


----------



## Bedford T

blsnelling said:


> That is mostly in regards to their pistons. The cylinders are Asian cast.


And finished and plated in Italy. Putting them in final control of quailty


----------



## Walnutlvr

Thanks for everyones help, I found one edge that had a nick in it on the intake port of the meteor, stoned and sanded and cleaned up any casting lines , Overall much better quality to my eye than the hutzl understandably. Installed it without a gasket and cycling by hand I heard a "tink,,,, tink" as it came to TDC, so had to install the gasket and the squish measures .66 mm,.025,the hutzl cylinder it measured around .040 or so.
Heres the cylinder installed , note the short circuit button added , other side is the rivet added to allow the brake to work.

If anyone has both I'd like to see the linkage difference between the original stihl and the hutzl, I assumed the geometry flaw was in the guard slot.


----------



## Walnutlvr

cstair2000 said:


> I also had issues with chain brake handle hitting muffler. But it was on the 56mm kit. Filed handle where it was hitting and now all ok.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Thats one way to deal with it, would you say thats a lot of travel tho?


----------



## tbohn

Walnutlvr said:


> Thanks for everyones help, I found one edge that had a nick in it on the intake port of the meteor, stoned and sanded and cleaned up any casting lines , Overall much better quality to my eye than the hutzl understandably. Installed it without a gasket and cycling by hand I heard a "tink,,,, tink" as it came to TDC, so had to install the gasket and the squish measures .66 mm,.025,the hutzl cylinder it measured around .040 or so.
> Heres the cylinder installed , note the short circuit button added , other side is the rivet added to allow the brake to work.View attachment 548372
> View attachment 548373
> If anyone has both I'd like to see the linkage difference between the original stihl and the hutzl, I assumed the geometry flaw was in the guard slot.


Deleting a base gasket should reduce your squish by about 0.020".


----------



## tbohn

My ms 440 kit arrived today. From what I looked at so far the quality is on par with the ms 660 kit.
It has a rim sprocket and not spur like shown on the Huztl website. It has a duel port muffler. The case feels solid. So far so good.


I don't know when I will get able to put it together.


----------



## HoosierS

Hey all, I'm new to forums in general and this is my first post. I've been reading through this for a few days now and really appreciate all the shared info, it's inspired me to get one of these 660 kits to tinker with myself. I was just curious about getting one ordered, has everyone that bought off the huztl website itself had good luck using paypal? And are there any issues with duty taxes or customs I should be aware of? I have never ordered from overseas before so I'm not up to date on how it works. In my head it seems that I should just be able to order it and have it show up to my door, but I just want to make sure. Thanks!


----------



## tbohn

HoosierS said:


> Hey all, I'm new to forums in general and this is my first post. I've been reading through this for a few days now and really appreciate all the shared info, it's inspired me to get one of these 660 kits to tinker with myself. I was just curious about getting one ordered, has everyone that bought off the huztl website itself had good luck using paypal? And are there any issues with duty taxes or customs I should be aware of? I have never ordered from overseas before so I'm not up to date on how it works. In my head it seems that I should just be able to order it and have it show up to my door, but I just want to make sure. Thanks!


I used PayPal with no issues. No duty fees or customs broker charges.


----------



## HoosierS

tbohn said:


> I used PayPal with no issues. No duty fees or customs broker charges.


Awesome, thank for the quick reply. I'm pretty excited to try and do this, I've enjoyed reading what everyone else has been posting on here and decided I just had to try it for myself.


----------



## Philbert

HoosierS said:


> Hey all, I'm new to forums in general and this is my first post. I've been reading through this for a few days now and really appreciate all the shared info, it's inspired me to get one of these 660 kits to tinker with myself.


Welcome to A.S.!

Phhilbert


----------



## Hydro74

tbohn said:


> My ms 440 kit arrived today. From what I looked at so far the quality is on par with the ms 660 kit.
> It has a rim sprocket and not spur like shown on the Huztl website. It has a duel port muffler. The case feels solid. So far so good.View attachment 548605
> View attachment 548607
> 
> I don't know when I will get able to put it together.



Looks good I checked through the huztl website before they offered the 440 as a kit and the only part they didn't have was the carburetor flange. Is there one included in your kit?





I bought a couple from my local stihl dealer for future builds!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## dswensen

How long did it take to deliver to you? I ordered one too



tbohn said:


> My ms 440 kit arrived today. From what I looked at so far the quality is on par with the ms 660 kit.
> It has a rim sprocket and not spur like shown on the Huztl website. It has a duel port muffler. The case feels solid. So far so good.
> I don't know when I will get able to put it together.


----------



## SlurpJ

Finally got around to getting this thing finished up and have to say I'm very happy with it. Don't know if I could have done it without this forum, so thank you everyone! Overall the parts are pretty good, some are obviously Chinese but for the most part usable stuff. I must have got lucky because my chain adjuster fit tight and seems to work fine. The only thing missing were 2 5mm nuts. I do have a small black screw leftover I have to figure out where it goes! Got it to fire up on the 3rd pull and it stayed idling after with no issues. Kill it and it starts right up on one pull. I do have some tuning to do, if I pull the throttle slowly it wants to bog, pull it quick and it takes right off.

To fix the chain brake I had to file back the plastic piece circled because it was making contact too soon. I also shaved off the bump above the muffler just in case but it looks like I may not have needed to.


----------



## tbohn

Hydro74 said:


> Looks good I checked through the huztl website before they offered the 440 as a kit and the only part they didn't have was the carburetor flange. Is there one included in your kit?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I bought a couple from my local stihl dealer for future builds!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It does have that part.


----------



## Chris3558

I ran into the same issue on my chain brake. I am going to drill a cross hole and press in a dowel pin just below where the link goes thru the slot. That slot is too wide and doesn't need that much travel. Several ways to deal with it. 
HoosierS, from the time I placed my order until the saw arrived at my door was 10 days. That was during Christmas, so pretty quick.


----------



## Hydro74

tbohn said:


> It does have that part.



Sweet guess I know what I'm ordering next


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## tbohn

dswensen said:


> How long did it take to deliver to you? I ordered one too


I ordered on the 27th. That is the quickest I have received anything from them.


----------



## tbohn

I just finished putting case together. I really like what I see so far. 
It did come with four m5x25mm bolts that I can't identify on the ipl. The case takes five m5x20mm and I think the cylinder takes four m5x20mm.

Any ideas what the m5x25mm are for?


----------



## Ozhoo

tbohn said:


> ...Any ideas what the m5x25mm are for?



Stihl changed MS440 cylinder bolts to M5x25 in 2004.


----------



## davhul

From what I have noticed over the past several months is this. If you place your order and there is no Chinese holiday that interferes with your order your fine. Like mine and a few others our order fell on one of their many week long holidays. I would plan around that for shipping also.


----------



## tbohn

Ozhoo said:


> Stihl changed MS440 cylinder bolts to M5x25 in 2004.


Thanks. I guess the French ipl I was looking at is dated.
Now I'm waiting for my Huztl 52mm cylinder.


----------



## HoosierS

I just pulled the trigger and got mine ordered. So the next few days I'll be spending my spare time rereading all of this post and taking notes, as well as watching all the youtube videos some of these folks have put on there again. Pretty excited to try and build a chainsaw from a kit, sure hope I can get it running! Luckily it's just for a hobby as I have enough saws already for what I need. Just wanted something bigger to play with, maybe mill a few logs I have down. Hopefully the kit arrives complete.


----------



## Bedford T

If you guys make a statement about the 440 please include that in each statement. Very confusing.


----------



## Philbert

Maybe start a separate thread, and link it to this one, to keep the threads model specific?

Philbert


----------



## Bedford T

Good idea, it is interesting and welcome let's make it so we could keep up. Example, I thought the question about the extra screws was interesting I just was not clear on which model I was to look at.


----------



## Ozhoo

We could even call the 440 thread something like 
* Huztl / Farmertec ms 440 *


----------



## Bedford T

Who knew? Problem solved.


----------



## HoosierS

I'm going to order some of the caber rings I seen recommended for the ms660 kit, but I don't remember which size P&C the kit ships with. I think it was mentioned somewhere in this post, but figured I could ask quicker then I could find it. Is it the 54 or 56mm it ships with? Thanks


----------



## Ozhoo

54 x 1.2mm is standard 56mm is big bore. Hutzl kit ships with 54mm top end.


----------



## a. palmer jr.

I've tried several times today to get on the Huztl website where they have the Stihl and Husq. engine kits and was denied access. I wonder what's up..


----------



## HoosierS

a. palmer jr. said:


> I've tried several times today to get on the Huztl website where they have the Stihl and Husq. engine kits and was denied access. I wonder what's up..


I had to get on huztl website with my laptop, phone and tablet wouldn't work for some reason. But I just ordered my 660 kit within the past couple hours and it was fine. Unless I broke it their website when I used it, not out of the realm of possibility.


----------



## Chris3558

I just went to the working link I got a few days ago in my email and this is what comes up? I am using my home computer. The link was working earlier today?


----------



## Ozhoo

Reports are coming in that SOMEONE was surfing internet p o r n while chainsaw shopping. The two sites have cross pollinated and brought Hutlz to a screeching halt.


----------



## HoosierS

Chris3558 said:


> I just went to the working link I got a few days ago in my email and this is what comes up? I am using my home computer. The link was working earlier today?


I just tried to get on again and got that same screen...its a bit unsettling since I just paid them almost 300 bucks.


----------



## cstair2000

Yes, the Huztl.net web site is broken. I just sent them an email. Hopefully will be fixed by morning.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Ozhoo

I shot em an email but then realized that it was noon on Saturday over there so I wouldn't be expecting it to come back online anytime soon.


----------



## Ozhoo

From Hutlz

_Dear sir,

Sorry that there is something wrong with the website now, we are dealing with it.

Sorry for the incovnenience.



Best regards,

Lynn_


----------



## a. palmer jr.

Whew! I thought my computer was on the blink again, been trying to fix it for several days, printer still doesn't work..phones don't work either, what a mess!


----------



## cstair2000

Got the following reply from Huztl:

Dear sir,
Hope you are well.
Please go to our new website http://www.farmertec.com/ , which is same with the huztl.net
The new website could be opened with the mobile, too, which will be very convenient for you to buy our parts.
If you have any further needs, please leave message, we will help you.

Best regards,
Lynn



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Chris3558

I see on the Farmertec.com website, the MS660 kit is now $199.00 plus shipping.


----------



## Bedford T

They think they have them sale priced. They will jack them back up to 380$ where they were when nobody ever bought them


----------



## tbohn

I'm putting a Huztl ms440 parts kit together now. The quality is on par with ms660 kits but the ms660 parts are noticeably more heavy duty and built more robust. I guess that explains the weight difference between the two models.


----------



## Bedford T

That is not a desirable trait. is the case magnesium?


----------



## tbohn

Bedford T said:


> That is not a desirable trait. is the case magnesium?


I believe it is magnesium by looking at the small spots of corrosion.

I agree with you about the weight. The 440 crankshaft, cylinder, and the cases seem really small after working on the 660 kit. Hopefully I will be able to give it a good workout after it built. I have used a couple Huztl ms440 p&c kits in the past. They run great but I don't have enough time on them to tell how long they will last.


----------



## Ozhoo

cstair2000 said:


> Got the following reply from Huztl:
> 
> Dear sir,
> Hope you are well.
> Please go to our new website http://www.farmertec.com/ , which is same with the huztl.net
> The new website could be opened with the mobile, too, which will be very convenient for you to buy our parts.
> If you have any further needs, please leave message, we will help you.
> 
> Best regards,
> Lynn
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk




User accounts weren't transferred either. Order numbers aren't the same... if you've placed an order in the last couple days you'll wanna send an email to [email protected] for a status.


----------



## Bedford T

If for some reason you need to drill on the case any filing should be burned to confirm magnesium. That's how the 660 was confirmed


----------



## gary courtney

BTarb24 said:


> their website has been crazy slow absolutely every time i've used it, so no surprise there.
> 
> Ozhoo's link worked fine for me. Though, here is a shorter variant just in case it helps you.
> http://www.huztl.net/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=54394
> 
> Edit:
> Here is the exact product name:
> *COMPLETE PARTS FOR STIHL MS660 066 ENGINE MOTOR CRANKCASE CRANKSHAFT CARBURETOR CYLINDER PISTON CHAINSAW*
> 
> and here's how to browse to it:
> 
> go to the main page: http://www.huztl.net/
> 
> Hover over "Stihl Parts" in the main header
> Choose Stihl 066 MS660 (99)
> Sort by price High > Low
> The kit should now be listed first with a price of $141.99


http://www.huztl.net/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=54394 farmertec found it


----------



## a. palmer jr.

tbohn said:


> I believe it is magnesium by looking at the small spots of corrosion.
> 
> I agree with you about the weight. The 440 crankshaft, cylinder, and the cases seem really small after working on the 660 kit. Hopefully I will be able to give it a good workout after it built. I have used a couple Huztl ms440 p&c kits in the past. They run great but I don't have enough time on them to tell how long they will last.


 That's my problem, I don't have enough time on them to tell about reliability. I've done lots of the P/C replacements but usually I just break them in and they go to a customer..haven't heard any complaints from them though.


----------



## a. palmer jr.

gary courtney said:


> http://www.huztl.net/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=54394 farmertec found it


 Can't do that, the website appears to be broken.


----------



## Bedford T

Guys that means they moved the content of the website to the new site. Rip to old site


----------



## Chris3558

Gary, that website is no longer working. Apparently, it got corrupted yesterday? I did receive an email this morning from Lynn at Huztl, and she included a link for me to track my MS660 shipping I ordered on Tuesday. Looks like it is in Transit. I sent her back an email asking if the Huztl.net website will be fixed or is it retiring? Waiting to hear back.


----------



## Bedford T

Farmertec.com is where it went.


----------



## a. palmer jr.

Yeah, that one works.


----------



## trboxman

unfortunately the prices are higher at the new site and their parts list is much, much smaller than on the old site. When you look at the 660 they're only showing a fraction of the ~100 parts that they used to list.


----------



## Bedford T

i bet the database migration did not translate real well. they could not pull the accounts either. i bet there was trouble with the products too.


----------



## tbohn

It looks like the 360 and 361 kits are still ~$135 on the farmertec.com site. Maybe I'll have to get one of each of these kits before the prices go up.

It sounds like there may be some issues with the 361 crankshaft breaking. Has anyone built both these kits and have a preference for one of them?


----------



## a. palmer jr.

trboxman said:


> unfortunately the prices are higher at the new site and their parts list is much, much smaller than on the old site. When you look at the 660 they're only showing a fraction of the ~100 parts that they used to list.


 When they get the initial sales out of the way the prices will probably go back to normal. Remember, these are not Stihl saws and will probably not be worth nearly as much as an OEM Stihl. Some people are afraid of aftermarket pistons and cylinders, I imagine they would be really afraid of an aftermarket saw!


----------



## Bedford T

a. palmer jr. said:


> When they get the initial sales out of the way the prices will probably go back to normal. Remember, these are not Stihl saws and will probably not be worth nearly as much as an OEM Stihl. Some people are afraid of aftermarket pistons and cylinders, I imagine they would be really afraid of an aftermarket saw!



how many have you bought? are you afraid of them? i can't image buying a oem to take it apart and re assemble.


----------



## a. palmer jr.

Bedford T said:


> how many have you bought? are you afraid of them? i can't image buying a oem to take it apart and re assemble.


 What I generally do is go to our friendly flea market or a small engine shop near me and buy one that is "blown up." Generally they are either straight gassed or have an air leak. I get the OEM crank and crankcase that way and just replace what is wrong and I don't have to pay $200 to get it. I've bought several saws that way. If you'll look at some of my posts you'll see I'm not afraid of aftermarket stuff but the guys I sell them to are and use that as a bargaining point. What I'm using right now for my own is a Stihl MS390 with a bunch of AM parts on it and hasn't given me any problems yet. Since I don't cut full time or do any heavy duty logging I get by fine with it.
I know, it says MS290 on it...


----------



## Bedford T

I enjoyed building mine. I understand the logic of only OEM is good enough but I also own a aftermarket saw that cuts equally well when adorned with a fine sharp chain.

The 029 is a fine saw and the big kit is cool. I am going to do my own.

When I built mine I tried to sell it, just tried, because I had trouble starting it with some health issues. And I noticed these other aftermarket saws that a guy was selling he was buying them in a box from China. He spends a lot of time rewriting the ad because they pull it down.

I had a guy call me all worried about this guy selling fake saws. He disclosed in the ad. I was surprised at how invested this guy was, how wronged he felt that ad being there.

Remarks in the forum are close to it. I bet most of their auto repairs have aftermarket parts. I am still scratching my head over it. But they sure will try to lower the saw price because it's aftermarket, even when priced appropriately.

I would not buy these with a resale in mind


----------



## a. palmer jr.

The saw I have pictured is one of three that I was trying to make two our of. When I got the two done I said what the heck and ordered a bunch of parts to put that one together. It might have been a mistake because I had to spend a lot of money to get that one together but it might be worth it to me. I modded the muffler, richened up the carburetor and it has a new bar and chain so it does pretty good. I've got several pro saws but the 029 is about all I need around here..


----------



## Bedford T

Putting them together is kinda addicting, what the heck let's make this run


----------



## a. palmer jr.

I've got two apart right now and several coming up. A little cold this weekend but next week looks better.


----------



## Ash UK Chopper

Well, got my 660 on the bench and see if you can spot the air leak!


----------



## HoosierS

I just sent an email to check the status of my order I made last night, making sure it wasn't lost and got this email back within 5 minutes just now.

"Dear sir,Thanks for your business.Our site www.huztl.net is getting a problem with the domain agent, but we believe it will be resolved within the next couple of days, the orders placed withhuztl.net will be processed without any problem. Please do not worry about that.Best regards,Lynn"

Also noteworthy, if you look at the header on the new farmertec site it says huztl.net on the right side. So hopefully all is well with the chainsaw people in China and we'll all still get our parts.


----------



## tbohn

Ash UK Chopper said:


> Well, got my 660 on the bench and see if you can spot the air leak! View attachment 549070


My compression releases leaked.


----------



## Bedford T

The base.

Be careful with the case magnesium is soft. I had a leak in same spot. Stripped the bolt and my hands are weak.

Make sure your gasket is right side up. If it is apply some dirko. If it's the bolt use a helicoil. Normal install trial.

Let it dry. Remove the carb after clamping your fuel hose off and raise the piston and allow to dry overnight before removing the jug. It looks like you cut some wood you might want to blow the dust off

Take a deep breath if needed.


----------



## Bedford T

HoosierS said:


> I just sent an email to check the status of my order I made last night, making sure it wasn't lost and got this email back within 5 minutes just now.
> 
> "Dear sir,Thanks for your business.Our site www.huztl.net is getting a problem with the domain agent, but we believe it will be resolved within the next couple of days, the orders placed withhuztl.net will be processed without any problem. Please do not worry about that.Best regards,Lynn"
> 
> Also noteworthy, if you look at the header on the new farmertec site it says huztl.net on the right side. So hopefully all is well with the chainsaw people in China and we'll all still get our parts.



The workers don't know what's going on. Use the email get your tracking number write it down and move to new site farmertec.com


----------



## a. palmer jr.

Did you delete the cylinder gasket?


----------



## tbohn

tbohn said:


> My compression releases leaked.


Didn't see the bubbles the first time. I always use Motoseal 1 even if I install a base gasket.


----------



## Ash UK Chopper

Bedford T said:


> The base.



Yes, correct! Bubbling like mad on the side pictured. Sprayed everything I could to make sure nothing else is leaking and all good. 

The bolts are tightening down fine, no problem there. The base of the pot seems flat and the gasket seems fine. I was using a non setting gasket jointing compound. 

Does that dirko stuff set or is it non setting. 

Could someone confirm which way up the gasket should be please. 

Getting there....


----------



## Bedford T

The indentation goes down into the case. Kinda like a bowl with cereal in it if you use your imagination. Dirko is rubbery and sets.


----------



## Ash UK Chopper

Bedford T said:


> The indentation goes down into the case. Kinda like a bowl with feral on it if you use your imagination. Dirko is rubbery and sets.



Gasket is right way up then.

I assume I was right in putting jointing compound on the case only, not the pot side as well?

I'm using hylomar blue to seal surfaces


----------



## Bedford T

Both sides for me


----------



## Bedford T

Hylomar is awesome stuff in that area use dirko. To put the case together go hylomar and similar


----------



## Bedford T




----------



## Ash UK Chopper

Bedford T said:


> Hylomar is awesome stuff in that area use dirko. To put the case together go hylomar and similar



I coated the crank case halve gasket in hylomar and the head gasket one side. 

I'll get a tube of a setting compound tomorrow and double coat for extra pleasure!


----------



## Bedford T

You know paint thinner will dissolve blue right off that gasket if you go that way


----------



## Ash UK Chopper

Bedford T said:


> You know paint thinner will dissolve blue right off that gasket if you go that way



Brake cleaner has got it clean again ready for a lubing


----------



## Bedford T

Your close, so close


----------



## Bedford T

Ash UK Chopper said:


> I coated the crank case halve gasket in hylomar and the head gasket one side.
> 
> I'll get a tube of a setting compound tomorrow and double coat for extra pleasure!


dont pile it on. the thickness could throw the clearances off, the right term eludes me. use an even thin coating. the squish!


----------



## dswensen

When did you get a tracking number? When I ordered (6 days ago), all I got was a payment confirmation from Paypal.



Bedford T said:


> The workers don't know what's going on. Use the email get your tracking number write it down and move to new site farmertec.com


----------



## Bedford T

Check PayPal for the tracking number if they bonk it up. They are on other side of world. I think they are a day ahead and around 12 hour difference.

I have been uneasy just like you. They did not answer a bunch of emails and their excuse was a manager left with the password.

All that is detailed In The thread. Theirs is a different world. We have different expectations.

You will not get cheated if you do and the manager leaves with all the parts this time tell paypal and you will get money back.

I bet it's just their methods that has alarmed you. Trust PayPal and go enjoy your weekend.

I don't think any of the workers know about half of what goes on. I image they just get up and leave at the set hour without regard for notices of change or holiday to the customer


----------



## Ozhoo

dswensen said:


> When did you get a tracking number? When I ordered (6 days ago), all I got was a payment confirmation from Paypal.



Take a look at your paypal receipt and you'll see an invoice number. Email [email protected] with your invoice number and ask for an update. More than likely it's already shipped.


----------



## Bedford T

Ozhoo said:


> Take a look at your paypal receipt and you'll see an invoice number. Email [email protected] with your invoice number and ask for an update. More than likely it's already shipped.
> View attachment 549114



I suggest you sign in to your PayPal account and if the tracking is issued it will be there it will be attached to the transaction. Why ask them for it


----------



## a. palmer jr.

I can tell you one thing, shipping is slow from China but things leave China in a hurry. It's after it leaves China that takes so long. I ordered a P/C from them on Dec 20 and received it today, it left China around the 22 of Dec and took the rest of the time to get here and the USPS never updated their tracking. According to the tracking number it never got to the US receiving station. I've got another one coming also which I ordered on the 22nd and some seals, hope they get here next week..


----------



## Bedford T

I think they celebrate Christmas too. At least observe it, maybe only because their customers do. Not savy enough to have that information. I got an unrelated email from a company there and they mentioned a delay because of their holiday during that time. I thought how curious


----------



## Chris3558

There seems to be no consistency, I ordered my first saw on Dec. 17th, it arrived on the 27th, 10 days later and we had the Christmas rush in there. I just ordered a 2nd one Jan. 3rd and already have shipping confirmation. We shall see how long it takes for that one to show up.


----------



## Bedford T

I agree no consistency but Shipping times after it enters the stream has nothing to do with them. Unless the shipments are held up for government inspections


----------



## dswensen

Thank you. Found the order number as you suggested and e-mailed a request for information. 

Checked PayPal and there is no shipping information.



Ozhoo said:


> Take a look at your paypal receipt and you'll see an invoice number. Email [email protected] with your invoice number and ask for an update. More than likely it's already shipped.
> View attachment 549114


----------



## a. palmer jr.

Bedford T said:


> I agree no consistency but Shipping times after it enters the stream has nothing to do with them. Unless the shipments are held up for government inspections


 China ships the stuff out pretty fast, it's after that when the delays happen. I've had stuff stay in Chicago over a month before.


----------



## Bedford T

dswensen said:


> Checked PayPal and there is no shipping information.



So what does that tell you? It will appear when it is issued. You can always fret over it.


----------



## Bedford T

a. palmer jr. said:


> China ships the stuff out pretty fast, it's after that when the delays happen. I've had stuff stay in Chicago over a month before.



that is maddening. you see the stuff just sitting. several times when that happened i would get it and it might have some fist sized hole in the box. other times the label is perfect and box is perfect. you wonder if they were inspected.


----------



## Ash UK Chopper

Bedford T said:


> Your close, so close



Sealed up nice, running nice! Thank you for your assistance!


----------



## Bedford T

Good job, enjoy


----------



## dswensen

Well, I guess you me put me in my place huh? 

Trusting a Chinese company with 300 of my dollars is a big deal to me. I'm glad for you that you don't have to "fret" over that sum. 

Me? I'll keep "fretting" and tracking.



Bedford T said:


> View attachment 549207
> 
> 
> So what does that tell you? It will appear when it is issued. You can always fret over it.


----------



## Bedford T

dswensen said:


> Well, I guess you me put me in my place huh?
> 
> Trusting a Chinese company with 300 of my dollars is a big deal to me. I'm glad for you that you don't have to "fret" over that sum.
> 
> Me? I'll keep "fretting" and tracking.


I was not trying even a little bit to put you in your place. I was trying to help you. I was trying to get your attention so you would hear me.

I showed you

I have been in your shoes. Others as well, it's detailed here in the thread.

You can't freak out until they have done something wrong or it will worry you for nothing. They don't seem to regard our concerns and I showed you PayPal had your back. I showed you where you could get the tracking number without waiting for a reply to an email.

After they have had enough time..In your eyes contacting them is needed. But you have access to information and I was helping you find it.

If you want to beat me up over that have at it. $1 is enough to get my blood boiling. They are slow.

But your right fill the thread up with it.


----------



## trboxman

I fretted for a month due to their moving warehouses followed by a week long holiday. Whizzed me off, big time, because there was 0 communication. I'd spent over $1000, small potatoes to them but not to me, they don't care but they still shipped the product...just like they have for every single person who has ordered something directly from them.


----------



## HoosierS

As of right now, huztl.net redirects to the new farmertec.com. On one of the banners it says that all orders placed on old huztl.net have shipped. The new site seems more streamlined even if the prices are a few dollars higher, but it doesn't seem that you can quote shipping costs before checkout on this one. And the new one is mobile capable as well. Hopefully everyone who ordered on the old site recently will get their orders as promised soon. I'm like a kid at Christmas waiting for my saw, I love tinkering with this kind of stuff.


----------



## Bedford T

Here's a guy excited.


----------



## CR500

Looking at buying one of these kits.. I am used to OEM and was just wondering if anyone has put an OEM top end in one and had it ported?

How do the cranks hold up?

Looking at a 440,660,or 365

Sent from my non internal combustion device.


----------



## Bedford T

You could be the first.

None of these have been in use long enough to say anything long term. They have had quailty issues on the 360/1 cranks. 

Davhul got a 660 kit with a lamb chop slightly out of spec he ground it off.

If you replaced the top it should be near perfect. Farmertec is struggling with this new market. For instance when I complained about the finish on the farmertec jugs and compared them to cross they surprised me with their answer.


----------



## HoosierS

Did anyone here every actually put a high output oiler on one of these?


----------



## Bedford T

Trboxman just did. Used a roll pin punch to get the pin out.


----------



## a. palmer jr.

I've said this before but in case nobody's heard it: I've actually gotten a refund for a few items I ordered from China and gave the refund back when the parts finally arrived after more than 2 months. Of course I now have the parts and nothing to put them on. I'll just put it in inventory.


----------



## Bedford T

They are struggling.


----------



## thompson1600

Bedford T said:


> For instance when I complained about the finish on the farmertec jugs and compared them to cross they surprised me with their answer.



What was their answer?


----------



## Bedford T

The specific answer is private until it gets sorted out. But they have are struggling to understand what they have stepped into. Cheap on one hand quailty on another. 

I feel sure I can elaborate in a short time. If you followed the thread you might have noticed I am no nonsense. This is going to be safe and fun if I can help it.

Stay engaged and we will see. I think they want to provide what we need. They come from a different world and they had little valve until the saw kits because people say bad things about the Chinese junk and that's not always the case.

The saws have brought new respect. The danger is if they misinterpret the signs and the pricing gets any higher those kits will sit and not sell like they once did. That is a different story.

These forums provide the only technical support. Which is great but they could get ahead of themselves when they misjudge the valve. Their costs are low, they can barely provide superior customer service much less the needed technical support. That's where they are struggling. Understanding what they have stepped in.

I think they will get up to speed quick


----------



## davhul

What would surprise me is if they said that cross was actually them also


----------



## Bedford T

Your right. It's a small world. I betting cross is a neighbor building


----------



## trboxman

Since I have both castings on hand I can tell you that there are significant differences in finish and casting quality with Huztl having better quality casting molds and Cross having better quality finish on the inside of the cylinder. The differences are not even close on either side. Huztl's casting is much better, Cross' internal finish is much better. 

And to be clear, I'm not comparing them in terms of performance, the Cross cylinder is based on the design of a well known custom porting shop and it most definitely has bigger transfers, bigger intake and bigger exhaust.


----------



## Bedford T

See fellas we gotta lead here. Your clarity is helpful.


----------



## Chris3558

Well guys, I fired the saw this afternoon for the first time!! It took some troubleshooting to get there. Thought I would share some issues in case some of you run into these same kinds of problems. At first the saw would not fire, poured some mixed fuel in the plug hole and then it fired and quit. So its not getting fuel? I pulled off the fuel hose going to the carb, connected my pressure tester to it and guess what? The 90 degree fitting that the fuel line in the tank and carb line connect to has plastic flash inside one of the ports that completely plugged the hole shut. I have included some pics as to what I am referring to. I took a small drill to open the port Probably was a good thing that happened, because the fuel line in the tank that came installed from Huztl, happened to be the wrong one. In the kit an extra fuel was included and after digging into this, I could see there is a difference in the shape of the two. I installed the correct one which fits like it should. 
I finally get the saw fired up and started tuning it. Seem to run pretty decent the 10 min. or so I ran it, until the flywheel nut loosened up and broke the key-way for the flywheel in two peices. I remember reading this happened to one other guy on here, forget who he is? The flywheel nut came loose? I was afraid of over tightening it, but I can see now it needs to be really be tight and maybe some blue Loc-tite may be in order. I will probably go right to Stihl for a new keyway. I am close, just a few more details to sort out.


----------



## Bedford T

Sorry you had that trouble but you were on top of it. the elbow was a new one i think


----------



## grizz55chev

Bedford T said:


> Sorry you had that trouble but you were on top of it. the elbow was a new one i think


Some guys use toothpaste as a sealer for the tapered fit on the flywheel to crankshaft, works with or without the key. The key is just a locator.


----------



## Bedford T

Does it matter if it's minty?


----------



## grizz55chev

Sensodyne if you please.


----------



## Bedford T

Lol


----------



## cstair2000

I had same problem on my first build. That is sheering key. I now hit the net with my impact wrench on low setting a couple of times and have not had a problem since.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## HoosierS

Based on what I've read here, I figured I should order a new gasket set to have to have the oil seals and the muffler and exhaust gasket. I found 2 brands at the top of my ebay search which where Hyway and NWP for about the same price. Is one brand better than the other or should I look for a different brand in general. Also, if I buy a gasket set should I use the case gasket as well or stick with the kit gasket?


----------



## davhul

Hyway could be alright but I've never tried them. The NWP cylinder I put on saw #1 looked fine and their base gasket looked about like the huztl I had. Who knows they could be the same people under a different name. Both looked good and useable. On the exhaust port gasket I used oem. The oem metal gasket made it better to port match to the cylinder. The muffler cover gasket was missing on all my kits so I used a bead of dirko. The seals is a must have. This is why the seals need to be out. So Before you start pop them out. Also put the crank in the correct way and don't put it in backwards or you'll be pissed. After it's together smack the crank back and forth til it's as close to center as you can get it. Now the preload should be relieved and the crank should spin freely. NOW the seals can be installed. That's just the way I do it.


----------



## a. palmer jr.

I was kinda wondering about what you said about a bunch of Chinese companies all operating under one umbrella but different brand names. I've noticed a few coincidences when buying on ebay..a lot of the little companies sell Farmer Tech products.


----------



## Chris3558

As far as the leaky gas and oil caps. My gas cap so far is sealing nicely, but the oil leaks where the orange and black are joined. Is there a "decent" AM cap you guys are using or is it off to the OEM dealer? Thanks.


----------



## Bedford T

For the caps go to the dealer.


----------



## Philbert

a. palmer jr. said:


> I was kinda wondering about what you said about a bunch of Chinese companies all operating under one umbrella but different brand names. I've noticed a few coincidences when buying on ebay..a lot of the little companies sell Farmer Tech products.


Shoot. Just the name '_Hutzl_' is spelled half a dozen ways on this site. Imagine how confused the Chinese are about who we are talking about!

Philbert


----------



## Bedford T

Bedford T said:


> If you replaced the top it should be near perfect.




i am going to retract that


----------



## Ifixjets

How is the quality of the newer kits say after Oct Nov time frame. Have read other places that quality, is going down.


----------



## Bedford T

thats why i retracted my statement.

absolutely the kits are not the same. the chinese have read this forum and others and it went to their heads. i heard people talk versions of this kit and that alarmed me because how can you have a clone and it not be almost an exact copy, so there should not be versions. then i saw a friend's most recent batch of parts and that sewed it up for me. i came right back here and changed my statement. 

i have some additional alarming information that i will share soon. why i am not blabbing is i have contacted companies and consulted my friends and have asked for advice and in the case of the companies clarification. but its a stunner. i am going to wait on them. i will fill you in.

i would move slowly unless you are committed to more work and expense than in the past.


----------



## davhul

Like demand got high and quality went low? I've seen that before. Get the parts quick by any means necessary mentality. I Hope not


----------



## a. palmer jr.

Philbert said:


> Shoot. Just the name '_Hutzl_' is spelled half a dozen ways on this site. Imagine how confused the Chinese are about who we are talking about!
> 
> Philbert


 HUZTL is the way they spell it.


----------



## a. palmer jr.

Ifixjets said:


> How is the quality of the newer kits say after Oct Nov time frame. Have read other places that quality, is going down.


 I used to work in a large factory, name omitted, that ran quality products with quality parts as long as things were going smoothly but when they were low on parts they might accidentally dip into the parts that didn't quite pass inspection.


----------



## Bedford T

Chinese for greed


----------



## Bedford T

These are not Stihl parts so when they dip into the less than bin you start getting junk


----------



## Bedford T

Wonder if they give plant tours?


----------



## a. palmer jr.

We used to give plant tours but we kinda steered them away from certain areas..


----------



## Bedford T

Huztl tours. Can you imagine? No need for an employee break room. Photos of Americans with bullseye's on their wallets hanging on the wall.


----------



## Chris3558

Ifixjets said:


> How is the quality of the newer kits say after Oct Nov time frame. Have read other places that quality, is going down.


 I received my kit late December. After reading all the threads, I knew this was going to be a challenge and I was up for it. I have access to a machine shop and also purchased some of the necessary tools including a pressure / vacuum tester. One really needs to take a go slow and double check everything approach. I would say the cases were decent, the cylinder needed a good deburring. The squish with gasket ended up at around .055. I milled off .025 off the base of the cylinder for a final squish of .021. Most of the issues I found had already been addressed. I think they improved the chain tentioner as far as not needing any brass tube to shim the end of the gear shaft. The materials are still low quality, but with some grease and running it back and forth a few times seem to help. My carburetor, the high speed needle was bent and I needed to straighten it. The clutch cover had at least .045 of run-out, got it down to .015. The chain bar studs were a miss match and one nut the threads were messed up, ordered two studs and nuts. The chain brake handle hits the muffler before it engages, needed to perform some "Redneck Engineering" to fix that. The plastic elbow that connects the fuel line to the tank line had flash in the tube so no fuel would come thru. Oil caps leaks, No heat foil or brass inserts for the top cover were included. Overall, no regrets! It has been a fun learning experience for the money spent and I feel I have a decent weekend warrior 7.0 hp saw .


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## davhul

I had a problem with the kits I built running a 32 and 36" bar. When I would bury the bar the clutch would start slipping. The engine would say reved up but the chain would stop. That's a problem this saw should run that size bar. The problem was the clutch springs. In a 1mm stretch test the AM springs took about 4.5lbs more to stretch than OEM. Not a Scientific test but was good enough for me.


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## a. palmer jr.

davhul said:


> I had a problem with the kits I built running a 32 and 36" bar. When I would bury the bar the clutch would start slipping. The engine would say reved up but the chain would stop. That's a problem this saw should run that size bar. The problem was the clutch springs. In a 1mm stretch test the AM springs took about 4.5lbs more to stretch than OEM. Not a Scientific test but was good enough for me.


 Scientific enough. Most of the saws I've had have the springs too weak, chain turns at idle..


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## davhul

On your 660 kits the springs seemed weak? Mine was on the other end of the scale. I noticed when I first started using it it took a little more rpm to get the chain spinning. It doesn't matter on a oem Stihl if it's a ms170 or 660 the clutch engages about the same rpm and these were way higher than I'm use to and noticed it first off.


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## a. palmer jr.

Mine wasn't a 660, I just stated that on many of my saws they are weak. My last one actually had a broken spring, it was an 038 Magnum. I put a new spring in and it works fine now..After a little usage, like 20 years or so they get kinda weak..


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## davhul

Ok. Heat and wear gets them over time. I like the 038's. Thats a model when magnum meant something.


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## a. palmer jr.

A fellow dropped by my shop about a month ago and said he might want to buy it, but I'm reluctant to let it go.


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## Bedford T

that saw is on my wish list


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## a. palmer jr.

I started out with just a crankcase and a rear handle, rest of it was gone or broke. Still don't have a ton of money in it..


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## tbohn

I wish Huztl offered a 380/381. The 038s are some of my favorites. Mine are getting old and tired just like me.


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## davhul

That's a good mid size saw. Only way I would get one is if I knew it would go together without having to modify it. It shouldn't have to take 5-6 hours to put one together. That's grinding on the cylinder and hunting the missing parts,modifying parts. That's all fun but I just want to bolt one together and not worry about the part if it's going to work like it should or fit this time like it did the last time I ordered. 
That's my main problem I had a lot of work arounds that I shouldn't of had to do.


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## a. palmer jr.

tbohn said:


> I wish Huztl offered a 380/381. The 038s are some of my favorites. Mine are getting old and tired just like me.


 They can be rebuilt with little effort. Parts are out there..


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## weimedog

I ordered a 036 kit. Really curious how that will turn out. Also since I wasn't thrilled with the last set of 56mm top ends I got for my last set of 54mm MS660's, I hunted around for the ones I had received 2 years ago and that have really performed well over this period of time. THINK and thats a qualified "think" I found some. I ordered one, received it in the mail; and it LOOKS like the ones I really liked...here is the eBay link if anyone is interested:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/222318574079?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

I'm going to tweak it a bit and put this one on "Bling" saw to see if its a match of the first 56mm's I had build a while back. I still had one from the past from the original set for the project saws of that time and put them side by side...didn't measure, but by eye they look the same. Really made my day. If it IS the right casting and cylinder, I'll convert the rest of my 660's (Except for the one with the Cross 54mm top end for now) over to these and buy a spare just in case the quality of one isn't the best..the two actually three 56mm top ends now that I don't like will end up in the scrap pile, even though they ran.

Tweaks?? I'll cut the base to reduce the squish, but only until the "free port" is .015" No more and I'll just live with the squish I end up with. Raise the intake as much as I can without risking snagging a ring, the short piston skirt makes it look like you can raise it a lot...but you can't. Might do what folks did in the past and raise it on the sides, leaving a bit in the middle to support the bottom ring. Make the intake symmetric and break all the edges on all the ports. Open the transfers as much as i can...might even put in a finger....we will see. Widen the exhaust but not change the timing just yet on any of the ports. This is more about cleaning things up. Have to wait until my shop is finished though...even might paint the muffler.

HOPING all have their projects up and running..and making chips.


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## tbohn

weimedog said:


> I ordered a 036 kit. Really curious how that will turn out. Also since I wasn't thrilled with the last set of 56mm top ends I got for my last set of 54mm MS660's, I hunted around for the ones I had received 2 years ago and that have really performed well over this period of time. THINK and thats a qualified "think" I found some. I ordered one, received it in the mail; and it LOOKS like the ones I really liked...here is the eBay link if anyone is interested:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/222318574079?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
> 
> I'm going to tweak it a bit and put this one on "Bling" saw to see if its a match of the first 56mm's I had build a while back. I still had one from the past from the original set for the project saws of that time and put them side by side...didn't measure, but by eye they look the same. Really made my day. If it IS the right casting and cylinder, I'll convert the rest of my 660's (Except for the one with the Cross 54mm top end for now) over to these and buy a spare just in case the quality of one isn't the best..the two actually three 56mm top ends now that I don't like will end up in the scrap pile, even though they ran.
> 
> Tweaks?? I'll cut the base to reduce the squish, but only until the "free port" is .015" No more and I'll just live with the squish I end up with. Raise the intake as much as I can without risking snagging a ring, the short piston skirt makes it look like you can raise it a lot...but you can't. Might do what folks did in the past and raise it on the sides, leaving a bit in the middle to support the bottom ring. Make the intake symmetric and break all the edges on all the ports. Open the transfers as much as i can...might even put in a finger....we will see. Widen the exhaust but not change the timing just yet on any of the ports. This is more about cleaning things up. Have to wait until my shop is finished though...even might paint the muffler.
> 
> HOPING all have their projects up and running..and making chips.


You may have listed the differences between the old 56mm cylinders and the new Huztl cylinders in a previous post. What where they?


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## Chris3558

davhul said:


> I had a problem with the kits I built running a 32 and 36" bar. When I would bury the bar the clutch would start slipping. The engine would say reved up but the chain would stop. That's a problem this saw should run that size bar. The problem was the clutch springs. In a 1mm stretch test the AM springs took about 4.5lbs more to stretch than OEM. Not a Scientific test but was good enough for me.


 Dave, did you replace just the clutch springs with OEM and get the clutch to stop slipping? I know the outer steel stamped clutch covers have lots of runout which doesn't make them spin with the brake off like the OEM ones.


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## Definitive Dave

Chris3558 said:


> Dave, did you replace just the clutch springs with OEM and get the clutch to stop slipping? I know the outer steel stamped clutch covers have lots of runout which doesn't make them spin with the brake off like the OEM ones.


At the time I felt like i had wasted enough of the builders time so I just bought a new OEM clutch and sent it to him.


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## Definitive Dave

my first complete engine from Huztl circa June 2014



and finding out the pistons in the big bore kit were too short right about the same time


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## weimedog

tbohn said:


> You may have listed the differences between the old 56mm cylinders and the new Huztl cylinders in a previous post. What where they?



First they are based on completely different castings. The ones I had when I built the saws in the video had visually different characteristics. Top photo, left to right: Original 54mm, Original 56mm. The first 54mm cylinders (look as they do now). AND that one is actually very good. The 56mm's I used in 2014/15 look like that 1122 marked cylinder next in line...the next set, the "right" most in the top picture, and the ones in the second picture; are 56mm purchased or received, one from DD, this past year, one to the right in the second picture this last month for the latest but unfortunately the worst as well  . It has some issues as I noted in the Bling saw video with the bore not being quite where I like it along with the intake machining. The 54mm's don't seem to have changed. Looks almost like they dropped those square based ones and started simply boring out the castings used for the 54mm cylinders. Even the poor quality one I put on Bling saw ran I guess. Just wish those origional ones were still readily available. They have a larger cast area for the transfers, and were pretty symmetric everywhere. The ONLY thing I didn't like about them was the large "chamfer: that both made it a little tougher to stuff the rings in when installing that style AND less sealing surface that actually require the gasket, the metal one; to ensure a good seal. Both have the same geometry related issues with the shorter pistons. While I really haven't quantified the difference either in power or reliability, those original style cylinders have to this point worked pretty well...I like them. I wanted to move ALL my MS660's to those 56mm's and was disappointed when I got this last set. I'll have to wait and see on the newer style ones. Mean while I started hunting.....


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## weimedog

Definitive Dave said:


> At the time I felt like i had wasted enough of the builders time so I just bought a new OEM clutch and sent it to him.



And I just went OEM and good Oregon Drums on mine where it counts and Oregon Drums of all of the rest.....hence the recommendations. Funny how this stuff come full circle....

Here..a small world... Save yourselves from some hassle and just convert them.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stihl-Chainsaw-New-MS660-066-064-Rim-and-Sprocket-washer-and-clip-3-8-7-tooth/321813007044?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIC.MBE&ao=2&asc=40757&meid=c69c822c93954fb1b58d6187ee4585b8&pid=100005&rk=2&rkt=6&sd=290781804109


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## davhul

Chris3558 said:


> Dave, did you replace just the clutch springs with OEM and get the clutch to stop slipping? I know the outer steel stamped clutch covers have lots of runout which doesn't make them spin with the brake off like the OEM ones.


 At first I was in a hurry and took the OEM clutch off my 064 and and put it on the 660 it worked and didn't slip. Saturday I put the AM clutch with oem springs on the 064 and it didn't slip. If any of my drums have run out it's not enough for me to notice and it doesn't rub my chain brake. I didn't have much time so my testing was limited


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## tbohn

I


weimedog said:


> First they are based on completely different castings. The ones I had when I built the saws in the video had visually different characteristics. Top photo, left to right: Original 54mm, Original 56mm. The first 54mm cylinders (look as they do now). AND that one is actually very good. The 56mm's I used in 2014/15 look like that 1122 marked cylinder next in line...the next set, the "right" most in the top picture, and the ones in the second picture; are 56mm purchased or received, one from DD, this past year, one to the right in the second picture this last month for the latest but unfortunately the worst as well  . It has some issues as I noted in the Bling saw video with the bore not being quite where I like it along with the intake machining. The 54mm's don't seem to have changed. Looks almost like they dropped those square based ones and started simply boring out the castings used for the 54mm cylinders. Even the poor quality one I put on Bling saw ran I guess. Just wish those origional ones were still readily available. They have a larger cast area for the transfers, and were pretty symmetric everywhere. The ONLY thing I didn't like about them was the large "chamfer: that both made it a little tougher to stuff the rings in when installing that style AND less sealing surface that actually require the gasket, the metal one; to ensure a good seal. Both have the same geometry related issues with the shorter pistons. While I really haven't quantified the difference either in power or reliability, those original style cylinders have to this point worked pretty well...I like them. I wanted to move ALL my MS660's to those 56mm's and was disappointed when I got this last set. I'll have to wait and see on the newer style ones. Mean while I started hunting.....View attachment 549715
> View attachment 549716


 I don't remember the step in the base of the 56mm cylinders that I received from Huztl in Sept/Oct 2016. I will have to check when I get home this evening. The intake ports where the boot attaches were machined and they were not concentric.


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## Bedford T

Conversations about a clone or part of a clone should not have versions. It is either an exact copy or not. It was at one time. Now it's a copy of a copy at an increased price. Look at your posts. Trying to pin down when the part was acceptable or not.


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## weimedog

Bedford T said:


> Conversations about a clone or part of a clone should not have versions. It is either an exact copy or not. It was at one time. Now it's a copy of a copy at an increased price. Look at your posts. Trying to pin down when the part was acceptable or not.


Buy OEM. You will have less anxiety that way. Most should anyway.


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## weimedog

Definitive Dave said:


> my first complete engine from Huztl circa June 2014
> View attachment 549709
> 
> 
> and finding out the pistons in the big bore kit were too short right about the same time
> View attachment 549711



What is the story behind the cylinder in the upper right hand side of the top picture??


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## Bedford T

I am not anxious. I am reading what's being written and pointing out the obivious.


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## weimedog

Bedford T said:


> I am not anxious. I am reading what's being written and pointing out the obivious.


Point?


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## Bedford T

Lol


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## grizz55chev

Bedford T said:


> I am not anxious. I am reading what's being written and pointing out the obivious.


Simple solution, not sure of quality, don't buy a clone. Used OEM is always an option.


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## Bedford T

Why are you telling me this? Did you even read it?


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## Bedford T

And it's no longer a clone, more than a few words here and it's lost in translation here on some


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## weimedog

grizz55chev said:


> Simple solution, not sure of quality, don't buy a clone. Used OEM is always an option.


Bingo...and these aren't clones...as soon as you go 56mm...clone concept is long gone. And...as I've said many times, and this thread demonstrates; these aren't OEM and aren't for everyone. To those thinking of building a business selling these things as complete "clone" saws...wow. That's a bad plan for so many reasons, I can't support that concept. For the hobby types, where these are simply mechanical puzzles with issues to work around? Pretty cool and it doesn't matter much if it starts as a blown up OEM or from scratch, there still will be things to work around with AM parts regardless of origins. And as demonstrated here these parts are a moving target, so issues I had may go away and new ones show up to keep things interesting. To those looking for stability and consistency...go OEM and you will be much happier there. This stuff is not for you. But why do we seem to till this ground over and over? And to Bed T, I'm still waiting for your store concept. That was one of the things I understood you were trying to build at one point in time, possibly a better source of parts for these for a better price? Is that still in the cards? And..did you ever completely debug your project saw after getting that entire tool room of expensive & frankly quite impressive shop tools? I'm within a cylinder or two of buying the last AM MS660 part ever for me to complete my set, ...which do quite well BTW to this point. I will just run them as they are until either they or I fail, so probably won't be a customer...moving to Big old Stihl's & Husqvarna's next for project saws this coming year( 281/288/298's OEM's ), also an OEM MS650 possibly a 066 (No AM in these) and maybe the 036 kit if time allows. But bringing the old ones back to life is where my interest is. And the new shop needs to be completed as well before anything happens.


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## davhul

He maybe talking about the parts looking and fitting like oem and being symmetrical to the OEM. I'm holding off on ordering anymore kits til I see where the quality of fitment is going.


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## weimedog

davhul said:


> He maybe talking about the parts looking and fitting like oem and being symmetrical to the OEM. I'm holding off on ordering anymore kits til I see where the quality of fitment is going.


Makes sense to me! How many kits can be useful to one guy anyway..I thought I had pushed that limit to ridiculousness with mine..I will never be able to use them all up. Won't sell them so they will run until they stop...and then to the scrap pile.


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## Chris3558

Weimedog, your imput and videos made it possible for myself and many others on here to enjoy building these "puzzle saws". I own 40 acres with lots of trees. This is just a fun weekend warrior toy I don't need and would never have bought if it wasn't for you and a few others offering advice and experience. After watching your videos and the testing you have run them thru, you made belivers out of several of us! You should send them a bill for the additional sales you have brought them!


----------



## davhul

weimedog said:


> Makes sense to me! How many kits can be useful to one guy anyway..I thought I had pushed that limit to ridiculousness with mine..I will never be able to use them all up. Won't sell them so they will run until they stop...and then to the scrap pile.



I don't sell them for profit but 2 of the ones I put together went to people that couldn't afford a saw that size or had the ability to put one together. Then One went to a tree guy and it has limited huztl parts.


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## Bedford T

weimedog said:


> Makes sense to me! How many kits can be useful to one guy anyway..I thought I had pushed that limit to ridiculousness with mine..I will never be able to use them all up. Won't sell them so they will run until they stop...and then to the scrap pile.


You go off half cocked and write a diatribe with every post. These things were clones and that has nothing to do with your 56mm. They are no longer clones which makes them less reliable long term. They are turning in to cheap copies. I not going to let you hide that With an entire page post. I will just repeat it


----------



## weimedog

Chris3558 said:


> Weimedog, your imput and videos made it possible for myself and many others on here to enjoy building these "puzzle saws". I own 40 acres with lots of trees. This is just a fun weekend warrior toy I don't need and would never have bought if it wasn't for you and a few others offering advice and experience. After watching your videos and the testing you have run them thru, you made belivers out of several of us! You should send them a bill for the additional sales you have brought them!



Just shared the experience..no more no less. But thanks for the feed back. I can only hope they turn out to be as much fun as mine did...


----------



## Bedford T

Chris3558 said:


> Weimedog, your imput and videos made it possible for myself and many others on here to enjoy building these "puzzle saws". I own 40 acres with lots of trees. This is just a fun weekend warrior toy I don't need and would never have bought if it wasn't for you and a few others offering advice and experience. After watching your videos and the testing you have run them thru, you made belivers out of several of us! You should send them a bill for the additional sales you have brought them!


A disciple[emoji302]


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## weimedog

davhul said:


> I don't sell them for profit but 2 of the ones I put together went to people that couldn't afford a saw that size or had the ability to put one together. Then One went to a tree guy and it has limited huztl parts.



That sounds like a good plan...I lend mine out to folks too as I can't run them all and they certainly need the time and like with your situation a local firewood guy needed a saw. These have worked for that scenario quite well. And to the strategy, why not share the expense when its family and friends. Kind of curious if you have done analysis to compare taking OEM's and building them with a mix on these and OEM parts. Sounds like that's in your power curve. And I for one really do appreciate your input BTW.


----------



## weimedog

Bedford T said:


> You go off half cocked and write a diatribe with every post. These things were clones and that has nothing to do with your 56mm. They are no longer clones which makes them less reliable long term. They are turning in to cheap copies. I not going to let you hide that With an entire page post. I will just repeat it


And 82 pages later we get to your point....


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## tbohn

My sickness manifests itself in buying saws that aren't working or have other issues, troubleshooting the issues, and then coming up with solutions to make them work reliably. These saws come in the form of broken OEM and assembling / tweaking these Chinese parts kits. I really have little use for saws over 60cc and even then I can't honestly justify more then one small saw plus a backup. It's my therapy! 

I keep telling myself that I will sell some one day but I still have 7 Chinese MS660s in my garage and many more OEM saws of different brands and I keep buying more. The one principle that I strive for it to not have more invested in a saw than what I could sell it for. Sometimes I buy saws that need more than I expected and put more into them than they are worth. 
I think the Chinese P&C kits and the complete parts kits allow me tinker with saws and not be upside down on investment vs. value.


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## davhul

I understand people put these kits together for different reasons. Some for fun, some to learn the workings of a saw and some may even sell for profit. I put mine together to help a few people out and not for fun or learning.i don't want to have to reevaluate each saw I build because their different. I want to put them together and not have parts changing designs or have a lesser quality because the change. When the design changes then the problems could change if their intent wasn't to fix a existing problem. We all know of the problems and fixes through out this 1600+ post thread. Should we start another thread Because almost all of this would be irreverent when we now could have different versions. That's why I have held off on future orders til I know what to expect.


----------



## weimedog

tbohn said:


> My sickness manifests itself in buying saws that aren't working or have other issues, troubleshooting the issues, and then coming up with solutions to make them work reliably. These saws come in the form of broken OEM and assembling / tweaking these Chinese parts kits. I really have little use for saws over 60cc and even then I can't honestly justify more then one small saw plus a backup. It's my therapy!
> 
> I keep telling myself that I will sell some one day but I still have 7 Chinese MS660s in my garage and many more OEM saws of different brands and I keep buying more. The one principle that I strive for it to not have more invested in a saw than what I could sell it for. Sometimes I buy saws that need more than I expected and put more into them than they are worth.
> I think the Chinese P&C kits and the complete parts kits allow me tinker with saws and not be upside down on investment vs. value.


 Think we have the same issue....but Think my strain might be terminal, at least debilitating! I have a few of these but thats mixed in with a pile of these big old Jonsereds that are useless to anyone but me.


----------



## weimedog

davhul said:


> I understand people put these kits together for different reasons. Some for fun, some to learn the workings of a saw and some may even sell for profit. I put mine together to help a few people out and not for fun or learning.i don't want to have to reevaluate each saw I build because their different. I want to put them together and not have parts changing designs or have a lesser quality because the change. When the design changes then the problems could change if their intent wasn't to fix a existing problem. We all know of the problems and fixes through out this 1600+ post thread. Should we start another thread Because almost all of this would be irreverent when we now could have different versions. That's why I have held off on future orders til I know what to expect.



Sounds like you have worked through a few issues and have some working saws. But that takes some skills. My bet is these will be forever moving targets... each of mine is an individual as all are truely "blends" vs. kits. They all perform well though, I guess to me trying to support more than the 8 or 9 in my stable could be a non stop series of little R&D projects. I don't mind my R&D puzzles, but don't want to debug everyone else's. One reason the resale concept makes no sense to me. But if someone wants to be in the saw business....go get a dealership! SO I build them, each to completion to where they are functional often very capable saws. I have fun building them, thats my drive to do these. They run, I tweak and improve them, they run more; I have fun....and if they fail catastrophically I really don't care as much as I would if there was a ton of money into them. But so far the only recurring issues for mine were carburetion, and I solved that with Walbro's. And thats been the trend..little crap, nothing major. And OEM always the solution when I run out of patience. SO far that has worked and they have cut a chit load of wood and I don't see an end to that because of any systemic issue...pretty much what I expected and suspected from the beginning as played out into reality...


----------



## tbohn

weimedog said:


> Think we have the same issue....but Think my strain might be terminal, at least debilitating! I have a few of these but thats mixed in with a pile of these big old Jonsereds that are useless to anyone but me.


At least it sounds like you are making some money on your hobby. Sometimes I think I should post a craigslist that I will repair saws for no charge except parts but I don't want to take business away from people trying to make a living.


----------



## Definitive Dave

Bedford T said:


> Conversations about a clone or part of a clone should not have versions. It is either an exact copy or not. It was at one time. Now it's a copy of a copy at an increased price. Look at your posts. Trying to pin down when the part was acceptable or not.


As much as that would simplify things, I cant see it happening soon or ever with aftermarket parts.
We could have it the way we want it but not at the price we want.
There are factories willing to make us exactly what we want, with a lot of caveats.
I looked into having a chainsaw cylinder made to my specs, it is a long and expensive process - the cliff notes version is 1000 pcs minimum, about a year of lead time, two identical samples needed to model from, after all steps approved and test cylinders approved they still expect 5% of cylinders to be defective on my dime, @$60K upfront plus shipping when finished - italian pistons and finishing, chinese manufactured cylinders - I wasnt willing to have crappy cylinders made and the length of time to recover on 950 cylinders is just ridiculous for us.
To get the level of quality control we would really like....


----------



## Definitive Dave

weimedog said:


> What is the story behind the cylinder in the upper right hand side of the top picture??


upper left maybe?
no idea just something on the bench that day would be my guess, sorry


----------



## weimedog

davhul said:


> I understand people put these kits together for different reasons. Some for fun, some to learn the workings of a saw and some may even sell for profit. I put mine together to help a few people out and not for fun or learning.i don't want to have to reevaluate each saw I build because their different. I want to put them together and not have parts changing designs or have a lesser quality because the change. When the design changes then the problems could change if their intent wasn't to fix a existing problem. We all know of the problems and fixes through out this 1600+ post thread. Should we start another thread Because almost all of this would be irreverent when we now could have different versions. That's why I have held off on future orders til I know what to expect.




Actually after thinking about this.....you would probably have been better off taking the route I did simply because I wasn't "bound" box of parts. You have the Stihl back ground and I had to reinvent that wheel. The one thing I see the "kits' have done for the later efforts is save a PILE of time for non Stihl types on the detail bits and pieces by defining what those parts are, even if then need being replaced. Took me a month or three and buying a bunch of redundant parts before I was able to put everything in a box and have that first "puzzle" saw. That first effort was really a saw and a half! ..I would have been better off starting from a Kit, while you probably would have been better off doing piecemeal as I did.


----------



## tbohn

And


Definitive Dave said:


> As much as that would simplify things, I cant see it happening soon or ever with aftermarket parts.
> We could have it the way we want it but not at the price we want.
> There are factories willing to make us exactly what we want, with a lot of caveats.
> I looked into having a chainsaw cylinder made to my specs, it is a long and expensive process - the cliff notes version is 1000 pcs minimum, about a year of lead time, two identical samples needed to model from, after all steps approved and test cylinders approved they still expect 5% of cylinders to be defective on my dime, @$60K upfront plus shipping when finished - italian pistons and finishing, chinese manufactured cylinders - I wasnt willing to have crappy cylinders made and the length of time to recover on 950 cylinders is just ridiculous for us.
> To get the level of quality control we would really like....


And you would still have to perform quality control on your end with more parts out of spec. I work with QC guy that came from the bearing industry. He said his company switched from a German manufacturer to a Chinese manufacture for the rollers. They were able to get cheap enough pricing from China that they could perform there own quality checks and reject over 25% of what they received from China. This was a big company with plenty of purchasing clout.


----------



## weimedog

tbohn said:


> At least it sounds like you are making some money on your hobby. Sometimes I think I should post a craigslist that I will repair saws for no charge except parts but I don't want to take business away from people trying to make a living.


Actually on these..no, I don't and won't even try...its a hobby. I have used the AM covers, handles etc to repair crash damage. So maybe in that way I guess. For the business side, I do rebuilds & major repairs on Husqvarna's and that offsets the cost of the hobby some, kind of a niche for me. But that's all done with OEM parts or better than OEM bearings in some cases. Also the logs I sell, small tree jobs & logging jobs I do, and firewood I burn so we don't have to buy oil. But really haven't made a thing on the AM saws as that wasn't and won't be the intent. They were about testing repair parts because at that point in time I had NO source of Stihl parts (That has since changed), most interested in the plastic in the beginnig and it just kind of went from there...didn't expect much actually but they were fun, so I went off in a tangent for a bit. Every time I run one and don't run one of my built Husqvarna's I guess they save some wear and tear. But the problem is I like them! SO I use them. And tweak as the price points make that affordable without a big need to justify the expense. Last but not least made sure they work completely, and often use OEM parts to make that happen. I suspect I'm not the only one.


----------



## Definitive Dave

one thing potential sellers of non-OEM chainsaws should consider long and hard is legal issues
a few sticky wickets -
selling an item with OEM badges affixed, theft by deception, possibly mail fraud
trademark infringement
running afoul of state and federal laws regarding mandatory manufacturers safety testing
the chain brake issue and accompanying fixes seem really sketchy,
the brake serves two purposes - you can substitute turning the saw off for engaging the brake while moving with the saw but the activation during kickback can be a life or death situation
That is why they wont ship containers of "clonimal" saws to the US or other first world nations, they would simply be seized and destroyed as unsafe.


----------



## weimedog

Definitive Dave said:


> one thing potential sellers of non-OEM chainsaws should consider long and hard is legal issues
> a few sticky wickets -
> selling an item with OEM badges affixed, theft by deception, possibly mail fraud
> trademark infringement
> running afoul of state and federal laws regarding mandatory manufacturers safety testing
> the chain brake issue and accompanying fixes seem really sketchy,
> the brake serves two purposes - you can substitute turning the saw off for engaging the brake while moving with the saw but the activation during kickback can be a life or death situation
> That is why they wont ship containers of "clonimal" saws to the US or other first world nations, they would simply be seized and destroyed as unsafe.



Yet another reason the "resale" of complete AM saws as a business plan makes no sense.


----------



## davhul

weimedog said:


> Actually after thinking about this.....you would probably have been better off taking the route I did simply because I wasn't "bound" box of parts. You have the Stihl back ground and I had to reinvent that wheel. The one thing I see the "kits' have done for the later efforts is save a PILE of time for non Stihl types on the detail bits and pieces by defining what those parts are, even if then need being replaced. Took me a month or three and buying a bunch of redundant parts before I was able to put everything in a box and have that first "puzzle" saw. That first effort was really a saw and a half! ..I would have been better off starting from a Kit, while you probably would have been better off doing piecemeal as I did.



The parts in this box of parts should work together. If not why do we buy them. I see this isn't going anywhere so I'm out. The new smell has worn off


----------



## Bedford T

davhul said:


> I understand people put these kits together for different reasons. Some for fun, some to learn the workings of a saw and some may even sell for profit. I put mine together to help a few people out and not for fun or learning.i don't want to have to reevaluate each saw I build because their different. I want to put them together and not have parts changing designs or have a lesser quality because the change. When the design changes then the problems could change if their intent wasn't to fix a existing problem. We all know of the problems and fixes through out this 1600+ post thread. Should we start another thread Because almost all of this would be irreverent when we now could have different versions. That's why I have held off on future orders til I know what to expect.



Thank you. that was the entire point. some of us have focused our attention on helping and being helped when you were building clones. That has changed the kit has changed. everything that has been said is now misleading if it is taken at face value. so this conversation will rectify that.


----------



## Bedford T

Definitive Dave said:


> As much as that would simplify things, I cant see it happening soon or ever with aftermarket parts.
> We could have it the way we want it but not at the price we want.
> There are factories willing to make us exactly what we want, with a lot of caveats.
> I looked into having a chainsaw cylinder made to my specs, it is a long and expensive process - the cliff notes version is 1000 pcs minimum, about a year of lead time, two identical samples needed to model from, after all steps approved and test cylinders approved they still expect 5% of cylinders to be defective on my dime, @$60K upfront plus shipping when finished - italian pistons and finishing, chinese manufactured cylinders - I wasnt willing to have crappy cylinders made and the length of time to recover on 950 cylinders is just ridiculous for us.
> To get the level of quality control we would really like....



I would say you as as close to an aftermarket retail expert as we have in this thread. But I disagree with you in a small but important way. Farmertec already has a well developed cylinder that a lot of people are happy with the* exception *of the inside and at this point better their are better than a cross in that aspect, ( to get it out of the way...) the cross design is more performance. Now re read what i wrote and don't get all tangled up, follow me.

they have the cylinder in the palm of their hand, they take their worker give him a foredom with the right fittings and he/she spends 10 minutes on jug and it would also provide a process to check for quality control like broken fins etc. that is not going to cost them a lot of money. So disagree because, for very little, they could make a large group happy. the problem is they are stubborn.

This part rubs me the wrong way and Americans have just got lazy, farmertec send the crap out the door also and the buyers are too busy and over worked and don't want to argue or email 20 times and they re buy the stuff. Its a never ending cycle that they recognize and exploit. That is their quality control. You keep buying until they slip up and get it right.

i think they want our business we just need to hold their feet to the fire. In all honesty if they sent me a crappy kit they would get a not as described, substantially different and file with paypal and make them correct it. they are capable. i am not saying don't buy, just don't buy crap and accept it. i love my kit and i know it will last a very long time and the stuff i have seen if polar opposite. Sorry that was way to long.


----------



## Bedford T

We have seen guys with big leaks and pinched rings, all this is a bad sign


----------



## HoosierS

I hate to see all you fellers upset on here. I'm new to the group and only joined because I read this and I thought the concept of building a chainsaw from a box of pieces was awesome and probably the DIYest way of getting a cool saw. I've read this thread in it's entirety almost twice now, actually taking notes this last time. I've learned a lot, asked a lot of questions and got a lot of help from some smart people. I have no idea what my box of parts is gonna be like when It shows up but I'm pretty sure with what I've learned here and hopefully with some more help I can get it running great. Sorry for the long post, just got sentimental I guess. Reading 83 pages of this stuff kind of makes you feel like you know a bunch of folks.


----------



## Ozhoo

That's what this thread needs Seth. Someone to start one of these builds with no expectations of having a $1200 saw upon completion. Not looking at each part and comparing it to OEM, but asking yourself, will it work for what it's designed for. I for one look forward to your build.


----------



## tbohn

tbohn said:


> I
> 
> I don't remember the step in the base of the 56mm cylinders that I received from Huztl in Sept/Oct 2016. I will have to check when I get home this evening. The intake ports where the boot attaches were machined and they were not concentric.


The two 56mm cylinders I have do have step in the base. They do not have the wide flange on the base. My 56mms with and w/o base gasket have noticeably more kick-A than the 54mm. The 56mm without the base gasket has 0.023" squish and I can't pull it over well enough to get a compression reading. I have several tanks through it and it is going strong.


----------



## davhul

Ozhoo said:


> That's what this thread needs Seth. Someone to start one of these builds with no expectations of having a $1200 saw upon completion. Not looking at each part and comparing it to OEM, but asking yourself, will it work for what it's designed for. I for one look forward to your build.



That is exactly what we need is a saw that can be put together with the parts provided or know what parts we need on hand to complete the project. Not going into the build then wait weeks for parts that didn't work or was missing.


----------



## Bedford T

no ones actually upset. your missing the point. well actually it does not matter if you miss the point. hereforward they are not clones. see a clone is why we all rushed to buy them, a good saw that would last a long time and you could get replacement parts at your local stihl store. now you might need 30% oem to get a good runner, a lot of us got some good runners with only a few oem parts and the other parts were stout.

there are 83 great reasons to be disappointed.


----------



## Bedford T

i am complaining and pointing out why i am disappointed. i want everyone to enjoy what i and others got. it very well could end well. you gotta b*itch some


----------



## davhul

I'm not upset either. I just want to know what is need to finish before I start. And if I need to help someone with a problem I don't know what to tell them. And I can't go back to my AM saw to give them a answer. Or even grab a 1200$ saw off the shelf and give them a answer. Like this chain brake problem I have no idea. It appears a part can be replaced to fix it. Maybe. I have no idea it's NOT like my AM saw or OEM.


----------



## Bedford T

i said a couple times recently that i got some shocking news. it is also inclusive of a solution to this issue. i got the second to the last email today. i was told i needed to wait two weeks to hear from this last main guy who on vacation. i think they are pulling on my leg. you know how the dog gets that look in his eye when he hits your leg. i ain't waiting two weeks, the chinese don't go on two week vacations they have festivals the whole nation goes home. i will run with what i have and then wait on them soon.


----------



## Bedford T

davhul said:


> I'm not upset either. I just want to know what is need to finish before I start. And if I need to help someone with a problem I don't know what to tell them or go back to my AM saw on the and give them a answer. Or even grab a 1200$ saw off the shelf and give them a answer. Like this chain brake problem I have no idea. It appears a part can be replaced to fix it. Maybe. I have no idea it's NOT like my AM saw or OEM.



no need to take it to the mat. but that is exactly the subject how do we continue to help when these problems are mounting. and they are farther from an original oem saw.


----------



## tbohn

davhul said:


> I'm not upset either. I just want to know what is need to finish before I start. And if I need to help someone with a problem I don't know what to tell them. And I can't go back to my AM saw to give them a answer. Or even grab a 1200$ saw off the shelf and give them a answer. Like this chain brake problem I have no idea. It appears a part can be replaced to fix it. Maybe. I have no idea it's NOT like my AM saw or OEM.


Has anyone complained about the brake issue to Farmertec and received a response?


----------



## Bedford T

Ozhoo said:


> That's what this thread needs Seth. Someone to start one of these builds with no expectations of having a $1200 saw upon completion. Not looking at each part and comparing it to OEM, but asking yourself, will it work for what it's designed for. I for one look forward to your build.



what is required is a consistent saw kit. oem is the design model. the clone provides us with a safe design. they get by as DD said by providing the kits circumventing many oversights. but you did not need them as long as the stihl design is maintained. 

we gotta make that clear to them


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## Bedford T

i must have not been clear. i am notifying them about it all. i have uncovered where the buck should stop


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## davhul

If anyone's got a 150$ poulan wildthing I can help you with it in the meantime while we wait on parts I didn't know I needed. Those parts are pretty consistent over the years


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## tbohn

davhul said:


> If anyone's got a 150$ poulan wildthing I can help you with it in the meantime while we wait on parts I didn't know I needed. Those parts are pretty consistent over the years


My $15 wildthing worked great for cutting up my cracked fiberglass hot tub and it still works!


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## davhul

And putting in a invisible dog fence


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## Bedford T

i am not giving up on the chainsaw in a box


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## Bedford T

davhul said:


> And putting in a invisible dog fence


i spit on my grand daddys fence and it knocked my on my behind. i think bite my tongue


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## Rocketross57

I too have jumped on the train after reading this thread. I have to say, I am excited to see what I come up with after putting some work into it. I don't mind working out kinks. I've never owned a new saw so working out kinks is something I'm used to and enjoy doing. I like a challenge, and after mine is done I hope I will have a decent almost 6 cube saw that I can use. Can't wait for it to show up. Ordered on the 5th. 

Sent from my LGL41C using Tapatalk


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## Bedford T

did you read the last few pages first place your order and read some more?

welcome anyway


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## Bedford T

HoosierS said:


> I hate to see all you fellers upset on here. I'm new to the group and only joined because I read this and I thought the concept of building a chainsaw from a box of pieces was awesome and probably the DIYest way of getting a cool saw. I've read this thread in it's entirety almost twice now, actually taking notes this last time. I've learned a lot, asked a lot of questions and got a lot of help from some smart people. I have no idea what my box of parts is gonna be like when It shows up but I'm pretty sure with what I've learned here and hopefully with some more help I can get it running great. Sorry for the long post, just got sentimental I guess. Reading 83 pages of this stuff kind of makes you feel like you know a bunch of folks.



we love you too, your post was just right. watch out for those posts that span a whole page, their wife's are ignoring them.


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## Rocketross57

Pretty much start to finish. Nothing has detered me though. 

Sent from my LGL41C using Tapatalk


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## Bedford T

Wanna screw a muffler up. They sell this stuff so you can fix the aftermarket mufflers.


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## trboxman

Consistency is a good baseline, we can all work with consistency even if the part is not right as long as it's consistently not right in the same way you can work through that...it's when it's inconsistent that we have real challenges. Consistently inconsistent is not a good baseline, when the parts are sourced from different suppliers who have only a passing understanding or care about consistency it's very difficult to work through and gets quite frustrating. This is really the only frustration being expressed here. 

Some folks are ok with each saw being a unique puzzle because they like solving puzzles for the sake of solving puzzles. Some folks are ok with discovering workarounds and don't mind performing the workaround every time they find the need. Both can lead to some impressive creativity and problem solving. But for every one of us, irrespective of which approach we're comfortable with, the expected outcome is a functioning saw. If we don't get a functioning saw then we're all just wasting our time. For me, if the path to a functioning saw is different each time I'll completely lose interest in building saws because they become long term problems, no predictability in function or dysfunction. I can get that at work, flat out don't need it in my hobby.


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## Rocketross57

trboxman said:


> Consistency is a good baseline, we can all work with consistency even if the part is not right as long as it's consistently not right in the same way you can work through that...it's when it's inconsistent that we have real challenges. Consistently inconsistent is not a good baseline, when the parts are sourced from different suppliers who have only a passing understanding or care about consistency it's very difficult to work through and gets quite frustrating. This is really the only frustration being expressed here.
> 
> Some folks are ok with each saw being a unique puzzle because they like solving puzzles for the sake of solving puzzles. Some folks are ok with discovering workarounds and don't mind performing the workaround every time they find the need. Both can lead to some impressive creativity and problem solving. But for every one of us, irrespective of which approach we're comfortable with, the expected outcome is a functioning saw. If we don't get a functioning saw then we're all just wasting our time. For me, if the path to a functioning saw is different each time I'll completely lose interest in building saws because they become long term problems, no predictability in function or dysfunction. I can get that at work, flat out don't need it in my hobby.


Well said sir. 

Sent from my LGL41C using Tapatalk


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## Chris3558

weimedog said:


> But so far the only recurring issues for mine were carburetion, and I solved that with Walbro's.


I got my saw back up and running after the loose flywheel nut and broken keyway issue. Still on first frst tank of fuel. I have followed some tuning tips from utube. I did pressure test and vacuum test the saw before starting and all is good. I am also running a 40:1 NON OXY Premium with Stihl Ultra oil mix. The problem is getting it to want to idle below 3200 rpm's. I understand the saw needs to get broken in, I have the high speed setting around 12800 and want to keep it on the rich side. From say 3200 rpms.....the saw responds great! Blip the throttle and it revs with no hesitation and right now! Let it idle at 3200 - 3300 for a few minutes, then hit the throttle and it kills. I know Weimedog has thrown the towel in on these kit carbs and I am starting to see why, but before I do.....was hoping I can make it work?? I have the idle screw out one full turn. I have tried the proceedure where you lean it out to 3700 rpms and turn the LA down to 3300......from there richen up the L screw until you reach 2500 rpms. Not going to happen. Once I get close to 3 grand with the L screw, the rpms want to fall until it dies?? I have checked both the H & L mixtures screws for straightness as the H speed screw was bent and I got it back to straight. Has anyone had similar issues? If so, have you had any luck making this kit carb work?? Other then this idle issue, it seems to perform decent. Thanks for your imput.


----------



## davhul

I use the AM carb on one of mine. The throttle butterfly on mine was misaligned. And was causing air to flow around it causing a high idle like yours. I removed the carb and loosened the screw on the butterfly and you could see it close more. Tighten it back up and then see if that helps. May not be your problem but could be. If you don't follow or understand I can give you a Pic or video on what I'm saying. Hope that's it. 
Edit: And check to make sure you have slack in your throttle rod. If it's bent it might have tension on it at idle.


----------



## Chris3558

Thanks Davhul, I know exactly what you mean. I did have that problem with the choke butterfly sometime sticking after the full choke setting and had to do exactly what you discribed. I will take a look at the throttle butterfly and throttle rod also. Thanks


----------



## tbohn

I have had good success with my 660 kit carbs. I did have to lubricate the throttle linkage where it rides through the rubber boot on all on them or it would stick at higher idle RPMs.


----------



## Definitive Dave

I'm stumbling with when Farmertec ever really had a good "clone" that has now gone astray.
In the past they had some great parts and some weak parts and over time I would say both subsets have changed.
As far as the plastics and smalls go, I think they do a really nice job of putting that stuff together, same with gaskets and oil seals, even clutch bearings, ignition coils and flywheels.
For crankshafts I think NWP is vastly superior.
For carbs only The OEM Walbro wj-69 and Tillotson HS320 are really decent of what can be bought these days, though more carbs pop up almost monthly.
For cylinders at this point for the 660 I would put the current versions of these in this order.
1. OEM
2. Meteor
3. NWP (Taiwan not Bailey's house brand of the same name) Standard or Big Bore
4. Farmertec Big or standard bore about on par with most of the other lower end cylinder kits.

I would put the older Farmertec big bore about on par with the NWP.
I have some of the MMWS 066 and 064 cylinders in stock and have sold and given away several of each but I cant really comment on how they run because I haven't run one myself. The rings are Caber so that is a big plus though the circlips are just standard aftermarket. The port shape and timing is nice the fit and finish looks good though I have heard reports from others that they have seen cylinders with excess flash inside.

The brake linkage not working right is troubling, because all the brake components seemed to work well in the past, though thankfully I have never had occasion to verify the kickback sensitivity.

I'm sure given time they will get the few remaining missing pieces filled in, but honestly I cant imagine they will ever really ship a "clone" MS660.
Just too many hands making parts in too many factories all racing to be cheapest.
I hope I am wrong.

Dave


----------



## Bedford T

I would like to share the good news with you and give you more information than we have every had before. Arbortec.net was a champ and connected me with the "guy" @farmertec that controls the stuff we require and they have agreed to these 4 points and I will list them

so we have hit the jackpot, when you go to huztl.net and place an order. we will get what we need. also currently the prices on the website are as low as the guy who buys a pallet, he said he wants to sell lots. he has stuff we want and is going to work on these 4 points, he already has best price and he has our kits.

DD shared with you the info he had on the upcoming product introduction and the forum should have first look in many cases of the good stuff. farmer is very worried about the guys buying a kit and not having the right tools. i think he would worry less and ask fewer questions if you would post your issues along with a photo of your pressure readings before and after. those photos are important too. their Holzfforma brand will have some of the special tools we need.


He agreed to and likes the ideas:

1. shipping times are not clear. you dont announce your festivals and it makes us nervous worrying about our purchase when and if it shipped an when it will ship. you need to do better.

2. your kits are no longer clone quality and your suppliers are screwing us. you need to do better.

3. the farmertec jugs and pistons are pretty good on the outside, but not inside. you need to give your workers a foredom tool with the right fittings and clean up the inside, you need to do better

4. better communication between buyer and your customer service

i dont know how long this will take, but i will send him another email and try to be sure he understands these points because i do not speak a lick of chinese. i have given it my all and kept up with it and will make sure he has good information and then all we gotta do here forward is buy, farmertec will have our back. i dont think thats rings true for the big buyers but for us little guys all is ok.

too many words


----------



## Bedford T

you might have a bitter taste in your mouth cause you make are trying to make a living off these guys and others and you told me you were not happy with how your are treated and i do not blame you in the post i just made i said you are not getting any better pricing than me and you spend big money. i stand by what i said on a clone. a clone is a duplicate, not a bad copy, if i need to, thats what i mean. example if you took a starter from farmertec in august and laid it down next to a OEM it would look the same. that is not true this second, could be tomorrow, i think it will be soon. i have some photos of both. now the rope is not the same the rotors plastic cracked under the strain of high compression, but the pawls and spring was all good. the heart of the saw the case you could lay that same august case next to an oem and it was nearly identical. not so today.

you are splitting hairs for no reason here. we want a consistent well made saw part that when we need a replacement part we can go down to stihl buy a replacement part and bolt it on and go cut wood. and the case i made for the clone and its design still holds true until you get a crappy copy my august saw brake works as well as a oem.

the guy now understands he has some issues and now he gets it. and i was very direct and clear. he wants to understand and correct any issues. i dont think he knew.


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## Bedford T

honest, if i thought for one minute he was pulling my leg i would have said so.


----------



## tbohn

weimedog said:


> I ordered a 036 kit. Really curious how that will turn out. Also since I wasn't thrilled with the last set of 56mm top ends I got for my last set of 54mm MS660's, I hunted around for the ones I had received 2 years ago and that have really performed well over this period of time. THINK and thats a qualified "think" I found some. I ordered one, received it in the mail; and it LOOKS like the ones I really liked...here is the eBay link if anyone is interested:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/222318574079?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
> 
> I'm going to tweak it a bit and put this one on "Bling" saw to see if its a match of the first 56mm's I had build a while back. I still had one from the past from the original set for the project saws of that time and put them side by side...didn't measure, but by eye they look the same. Really made my day. If it IS the right casting and cylinder, I'll convert the rest of my 660's (Except for the one with the Cross 54mm top end for now) over to these and buy a spare just in case the quality of one isn't the best..the two actually three 56mm top ends now that I don't like will end up in the scrap pile, even though they ran.
> 
> Tweaks?? I'll cut the base to reduce the squish, but only until the "free port" is .015" No more and I'll just live with the squish I end up with. Raise the intake as much as I can without risking snagging a ring, the short piston skirt makes it look like you can raise it a lot...but you can't. Might do what folks did in the past and raise it on the sides, leaving a bit in the middle to support the bottom ring. Make the intake symmetric and break all the edges on all the ports. Open the transfers as much as i can...might even put in a finger....we will see. Widen the exhaust but not change the timing just yet on any of the ports. This is more about cleaning things up. Have to wait until my shop is finished though...even might paint the muffler.
> 
> HOPING all have their projects up and running..and making chips.


Do you know what coating is lining the bore?


----------



## blsnelling

Bedford T said:


> no ones actually upset. your missing the point. well actually it does not matter if you miss the point. hereforward they are not clones. see a clone is why we all rushed to buy them, a good saw that would last a long time and you could get replacement parts at your local stihl store. now you might need 30% oem to get a good runner, a lot of us got some good runners with only a few oem parts and the other parts were stout.
> 
> there are 83 great reasons to be disappointed.


Why are you so stuck on defining these as clones or not clones? They are what they are, cheap Chinese copies/clones/or whatever you want to call them. You seem as though you want to hold them to an OEM standards and pay Chinese clone prices. I don't get it.


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## Bedford T

Well I am unclear on why you care. You would not sully your hands with one so what you think about my intentions don't weigh heavy on my heart. I made it clear in my posts why the standard matters and you are invited to reread the whole posts and try not to skim them.

I accomplished a lot. I am not taking the bait.


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## Ozhoo

tbohn said:


> Do you know what coating is lining the bore?



Everything that I've seen has been NikaSil.


----------



## weimedog

tI'n said:


> Do you know what coating is lining the bore?


Not yet. I'll let u know when it shows...prolly in another thread


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## Bedford T

did everybody notice this is Chinese new year and they are partying until first of February. man, we should learn something from these other countries and chill more.


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## SeMoTony

Bedford T said:


> Wanna screw a muffler up. They sell this stuff so you can fix the aftermarket mufflers.


So you saved the cost of a dual port cover by using SS screen to open ALL the way up ??? At least they may still let U cut in U S Nat'l Forest w/spark arrest screen across Opened up muffler


----------



## Bedford T

Yes, I got the screen for my 029 project muffler mod and to use on the 660 when i made another muffler and the forest service was that force. We have all these options with the kits and i look at every angle thats sort of the fun in it.

did you guys notice how cheap the case cracker got? lots of people paid over 70$ for thing.
http://www.huztl.net/CRANKCASE-SPLI...FOR-STIHL-HUSQVARNA-502-51-61-01-p225734.html


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## Chris3558

Here is the Chinese Holidays for the next two months so you can plan your saw orders accordingly. I think they have like 49 holidays a year!!!


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## Bedford T

Farmertec wrote a nice email last night and went into detail how the copy process works for them. That's not to say other companies operate the way. He is having his engineering look into the brake thing. Does anyone have detailed photos you can send me?

On shipping he also mentioned customs. Both countries have them. After it ships random inspections from either or both customs can cause shipping delays just because they want to take a look. That can happen on any and every shipments from and to any country


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## Chris3558

Bedford T said:


> Farmertec wrote a nice email last night and went into detail how the copy process works for them. That's not to say other companies operate the way. He is having his engineering look into the brake thing. Does anyone have detailed photos you can send me?
> 
> On shipping he also mentioned customs. Both countries have them. After it ships random inspections from either or both customs can cause shipping delays just because they want to take a look. That can happen on any and every shipments from and to any country



As far as the shipping, I just received my 2nd MS660 today. Ordered it on Jan 3rd and 9 days later it was at my door! The first one took 10 days total. This 2nd one looks a littler more beat up? The box was damaged on one end and some of the parts are scratched up. The handle assembly, one corner got chipped.

The Chain brake assembly I bought a Stihl chain link lever to compare the two. The Stihl chain link lever works perfect with the kit handle and all the rest of the parts, no "redneck mods" needed. They look very close as far as parts go, but the geometry is different and that does make all the difference. I have a pic of both of them on a piece of paper with grid lines and if you look closely, the link position on the Stihl part "A" is about in the middle, on the Farmertec it a bit more towards the top. Also it looks like on the Stihl part "A", that arm is slightly longer? Farmertec suppliers need to disassemble a Stihl chain brake lever, measure every feature and copy the geometry exact.


----------



## tbohn

Chris3558 said:


> As far as the shipping, I just received my 2nd MS660 today. Ordered it on Jan 3rd and 9 days later it was at my door! The first one took 10 days total. This 2nd one looks a littler more beat up? The box was damaged on one end and some of the parts are scratched up. The handle assembly, one corner got chipped.
> 
> The Chain brake assembly I bought a Stihl chain link lever to compare the two. The Stihl chain link lever works perfect with the kit handle and all the rest of the parts, no "redneck mods" needed. They look very close as far as parts go, but the geometry is different and that does make all the difference. I have a pic of both of them on a piece of paper with grid lines and if you look closely, the link position on the Stihl part "A" is about in the middle, on the Farmertec it a bit more towards the top. Also it looks like on the Stihl part "A", that arm is slightly longer? Farmertec suppliers need to disassemble a Stihl chain brake lever, measure every feature and copy the geometry exact.


Huztl will offer a refund of $10 or so for the damage. They will tell you that their engineer says it does not affect the function of the part. That is their standard answer.


----------



## Bedford T

Chris you done good, trboxman reminded me we needed to address the damage caused by inadequate packing just a few hours ago. do you have more photos or just the label if thats is the extent. pm me with the label photo. write them and send them copies of the label and the two photos of the shipping damage. be clear and nice and leave it alone. tell them what you want done.

your post on the chain brake is very helpful too. i will save a copy and we will make a specific separate issue with him on the brake, I will go with the brake issue on Friday because thats downright important and pass your excellent work on to him. i explained the issue to him but I did not have an example and i learned my lesson but you fixed that. we are not dealing with a worker bee. i need to pick the battles and make a sound case every single time and i feel it will get fixed...without being needy. so i will collect this and present maybe twice a month and report back on the result. i just finished a back and forth of epic portion, i need a breather.

i suspect that his under-leans we not reporting all the issues or the customers were not telling them. so i will send the boss the same thing you send them in your email to customer service and we will see how this works out. in this case the left hand will know what the right knows.

an remember it is that holiday so i am not clear on what you may hear. if you get a dumb answer just sit tight

an tell me what you asked for, maybe even cut and paste the statement in the email


----------



## Bedford T

tbohn said:


> Huztl will offer a refund of $10 or so for the damage. They will tell you that their engineer says it does not affect the function of the part. That is their standard answer.



that has been the standard answer. but they are using inadequate packing. 

if it were mine i would tell them from the start in my email with the 3 photos that the damage is unslightly and the packing of the shipment was inadequate and i was not willing to except anything other than an immediate replacement.


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## MustangMike

Don't have time to read all the posts, but can you guys tell me if the starter recoils are holding up OK? Looks like I may have to get some for some MS 460s, so I just wanted some feedback.

Thanks.


----------



## Bedford T

ok guys this is the meat of the email. i did not wait. please follow what I said @Chris3558

"Sorry to write back so soon. I need to correct two things. First, I said the 660 case was a problem and thought it was a pin, it was actually the brake part, I am sorry. The farmertec part is unsafe and requires an oem part to work. You asked if I had seen it and I got it cleared up and their are 3 photos included so we can be specific. Would you look into it please?


Second item is shipping damage the box is to thin for the ride. Customer service almost always wants to negotiate a partial refund everyone would prefer a pretty saw. I was not certain whether you were aware of it? It happens repeatedly for the reason I gave. I asked the latest customer to nicely contact customer service and give them 3 good photos one of the label and box damage and part damage and tell them how you want it handled. Be sure and tell them you feel it was because there was not enough packing. After you notify them and they give you a unhelpful response let me know and I will let my guy know and ask him to see the situation (photos) so it can be resolved. But nicely give customer service a chance to handle it. They will have to talk to someone to solve it they don't do shipping."

my guy does shipping and customer service . i download your brake photos and they are in his email


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## tbohn

MustangMike said:


> Don't have time to read all the posts, but can you guys tell me if the starter recoils are holding up OK? Looks like I may have to get some for some MS 460s, so I just wanted some feedback.
> 
> Thanks.


I have not had any issues with the 660 recoils. One of mine is a 56mm with no base gasket. The compression force is so strong, I can't pull it over without the decomp active. The decomp seats half way through pulling the saw over. I sheared a keyway trying to get it started the second time out.

I fully expected something to give on the recoil but it is still going strong.

The recoil on my 440 kit had a broken pawl on delivery. The little pin on pawl that rides in the wire was broken off in the shipping bag. Not sure that indicates a problem in the quality or just poor shipping practices.


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## Bedford T

MustangMike said:


> Don't have time to read all the posts, but can you guys tell me if the starter recoils are holding up OK? Looks like I may have to get some for some MS 460s, so I just wanted some feedback.
> Thanks.



they are expecting some 440 in the next week next door and will be great to see several. chris just got another and said stuff looked good. on my 660 and on davhuls we replaced the rope and rotor. my pawls and spring looked fine, the compression was enormous on mine. the 440 might come with springy elastostart handle. the starter is magnesium with a steel post so even if you replace the fittings you will still save 100$


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## Bedford T

Fast action. I got word this morning that both issues will receive immediate attention.

But @Chris3558 still needs to contact customer service and make them aware so he can get a handle that is not damaged.

He was delighted to see it was the brake lever not the case and said he would see that the parts were protected for the ride.
Remember things like this can take more than a day. Trboxman said they could just secure the crank and go a long way.


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## Bedford T

you guys see this they are honoring their word. no more guessing on shipping. wish all companies committed to improvement.


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## HoosierS

When the huztl website went down last week, did anyone else lose their account on the website now that it's back? They notified me by email when my order shipped the other day because I had emailed them asking them to let me know, they also provided a tracking number. I was interested in some other stuff they had and it doesn't give me an option to check shipping anymore.


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## Bedford T

New website and info did not transfer. Re register a new account you can use same name. They have 1000's of products and a lot is missing on website. They are having to rebuild their database and it's by hand one by one and it will take some time put holiday add more time


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## Bedford T

Do you need to know where to track your package


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## HoosierS

Yea, in the email she included a link which had someone else's tracking number already entered in. When it first popped up I was amazed it had already cleared customs in California, then I noticed it had shipped the day before I even ordered mine. The correct number showed my package has been in some distribution center in Shanghai since the 11th. I just hope it gets out of china before the new year celebrations kick in.


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## Bedford T

Did you enter it in the US postal service tracker. Sometimes their system does not update


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## HoosierS

I wasn't aware it was the same number, I just tried it but it wasn't found. Thanks for the info, I'll keep an eye on the usps site too.


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## davhul

HoosierS said:


> Yea, in the email she included a link which had someone else's tracking number already entered in. When it first popped up I was amazed it had already cleared customs in California, then I noticed it had shipped the day before I even ordered mine. The correct number showed my package has been in some distribution center in Shanghai since the 11th. I just hope it gets out of china before the new year celebrations kick in.



Mine said same thing for a week then poped up in NY then my house 2 day later. It should be on track I haven't heard anyone not receiving a order in the 4 months since I received mine.


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## Bedford T

They hand it off usually in New York


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## Bedford T

On East coast


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## Rocketross57

The link they sent me included someone elses tracking number too. I checked it accidentally today and it said that it had been delivered. I was excited. Then I saw that it's last in transit city was Brockton mass. Damn!!! Mine is only 3 hours away now though. Hopfully see it tomorrow. 

Sent from my LGL41C using Tapatalk


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## trboxman

Bedford T said:


> On East coast



West coast comes through SF/Oakland.


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## Chris3558

I have a brand new compression gauge I wanted to try out on this saw, I took out the compression release button and installed a bolt to eliminate the release leaking. I hook up the gauge and try and pull the saw over, it pulls hard and I get about one revolution at a a time. I am concerned I am going to break something in the recoil? By pulling it just one revolution at a time, I get a reading of only 75psi. The saw runs great for its first tank of gas and I know its way more than 75psi. The squish is .021, so it should be north of 160 I would think?? Anyone have a good way to pull these over fast?


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## tbohn

Chris3558 said:


> I have a brand new compression gauge I wanted to try out on this saw, I took out the compression release button and installed a bolt to eliminate the release leaking. I hook up the gauge and try and pull the saw over, it pulls hard and I get about one revolution at a a time. I am concerned I am going to break something in the recoil? By pulling it just one revolution at a time, I get a reading of only 75psi. The saw runs great for its first tank of gas and I know its way more than 75psi. The squish is .021, so it should be north of 160 I would think?? Anyone have a good way to pull these over fast?


I was not able to do a compression test on my 56mm either. No base gasket. 0.023" squish. Too much compression.


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## davhul

The throttle has to be open also Tape the trigger down. I hold the gauge with my left hand along with the handle. Then drop start is 5 or 6 times pulling fast. The engine spins over about 3-4 times per pull


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## Chris3558

I had forgotten to hold the throttle open, thanks! 
Si now I have the throttle taped wide open, I am using two different compression testers to compare. I also have a nice MS460 saw I am comparing too. The two gauges only vary about 5psi, I am using a bolt and teflon tape on the threads to plug the compression release on both saws also. So apples to apples. The testers are also the 10mm thread in style with o-rings, not just a gage with a tapered rubber end on it. I can now pull the motor over fast until the gauge maxes out. The new one tank of fuel MS660 I get around 125psi max. with either gauge. The MS460 that runs like a top I barely can get over 100 psi?? The squish on my MS460 is like .045 and the MS660 I milled the cylinder base for a squish of .021. One of the compression tester is a Craftmans from the late 1970's and the latest compression tester I just bought on Ebay. Yeah, it was a low buck kit. Could both of these low reading be low quality compression testers??


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## davhul

Being that 2 testers are close you would think their accurate. My stock 460 had 165-170 psi and The stock squish was also .025 mine had a Mahle cylinder. The farmertec 660 I built had 150psi with gasket delete on one tank of fuel and I think .023 squish. And that saw had the farmertec cylinder with caber rings.


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## Chris3558

My MS460 is all stock also, actually the squish is more like .037. I really expected that saw to be at least 150? My Huztl MS660 does have the kit 54mm cylinder with Caber rings. After about 4 good pulls, the psi maxes out and if I keep pulling the gauge pressure starts to drop some? The bolt I use to replace the compression release, I can turn by my fingers. I did put Teflon tape on the threads, still wondering if the threads are leaking some? Anyway, I have yet to cut any wood with the MS660.


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## grizz55chev

Chris3558 said:


> My MS460 is all stock also, actually the squish is more like .037. I really expected that saw to be at least 150? My Huztl MS660 does have the kit 54mm cylinder with Caber rings. After about 4 good pulls, the psi maxes out and if I keep pulling the gauge pressure starts to drop some? The bolt I use to replace the compression release, I can turn by my fingers. I did put Teflon tape on the threads, still wondering if the threads are leaking some? Anyway, I have yet to cut any wood with the MS660.


If your tester does not have a schrader valve in the end that threads in you will get a false reading, tester is different than a four stroke tester.


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## Chris3558

The new compression tester I bought off Ebay was a cheap $20.00 kit. The end of the hose looks like just a pressed in check valve? My other gauge is about 35 plus years old Craftsman, probably leaking from old age?? I think I got what i paid for with the $20.00 compression gauge, a pile of ?? May have to return it and buy a decent one?


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## tbohn

This is the one I use. It works great. I got it off eBay a couple of years ago.


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## BuckthornBonnie

davhul said:


> The throttle has to be open also Tape the trigger down. I hold the gauge with my left hand along with the handle. Then drop start is 5 or 6 times pulling fast. The engine spins over about 3-4 times per pull


Why hold the throttle open on a 2-stroke?


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## BuckthornBonnie

Chris3558 said:


> The new compression tester I bought off Ebay was a cheap $20.00 kit. The end of the hose looks like just a pressed in check valve? My other gauge is about 35 plus years old Craftsman, probably leaking from old age?? I think I got what i paid for with the $20.00 compression gauge, a pile of ?? May have to return it and buy a decent one?


Tester or valve is incorrect. Even high comp engine can be checked with a proper tester.
If the valve is really "off" and it threads too far into the cylinder, you may be knocking your piston into it.
Comp #s vary but here's a reference from my saws (used... tested em after rebuilds and just for kicks)--
460 stock- 165ish
036 stock - 155ish
036 no base- 160ish
026 stock - 175ish


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## davhul

Always done it, I want to get all I can get I guess. There is a charge of air waiting to go up so it may not matter. Have to try it and see


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## MustangMike

Many compression testers do not give accurate reading on chain saws. There have been threads on it.


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## davhul

Did it vary about 10-15 psi


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## Chris3558

davhul said:


> Always done it, I want to get all I can get I guess. There is a charge of air waiting to go up so it may not matter. Have to try it and see


 It did make a big difference in pull starting the saw with the throttle wide open as well. The two gauges I have only varied about 5psi between each other. I watched a video on utube where the guy pulls the rope 5 or 6 times until the reading peeks. On my new compression tester, after I pull the rope more than say 4 times the numbers might go from 125psi back down to say 115psi and never go back up?


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## cvx1170

Hello to all,

I am building a 660 and I am nearly done, but even with pdf and plan I have some extra parts. Seems that they pack some parts that are already installed on crankcase and fuel tank. Do you face same issue?

General condition of kit was ok, just 1 damage when they drill the bottom right muffler hole and just 2 bolt missing.
I did port a bit the in/out ports and transfer and open the muffler cage (just metal plate in front of exit drilled with 10mm)
I have extra some bolt; fuel line and oil line some other plastic like accelerator
NB : I have been looking for presentation section with no success, if someone tell me if it is needed, if yes where I can find it

Many thanks
Pierre (Belgium)


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## Chris3558

cvx1170 said:


> I am building a 660 and I am nearly done, but even with pdf and plan I have some extra parts. Seems that they pack some parts that are already installed on crankcase and fuel tank. Do you face same issue?


Yes, I completed one build and starting my 2nd MS660. One thing to double check is the fuel line going into the tank. I think these handle assmeblies are used in other model saws and I noticed on mine that the shape of the end of the hose going into the handle is not the same. The fuel line that they send along in the kit is the one that actually should go in there instead.
The top cover does not come with brass inserts, the felling dawgs are missing mounting nuts. One of the short screws goes in the 8 o'clock location by the clutch.


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## tbohn

cvx1170 said:


> Hello to all,
> 
> I am building a 660 and I am nearly done, but even with pdf and plan I have some extra parts. Seems that they pack some parts that are already installed on crankcase and fuel tank. Do you face same issue?
> 
> General condition of kit was ok, just 1 damage when they drill the bottom right muffler hole and just 2 bolt missing.
> I did port a bit the in/out ports and transfer and open the muffler cage (just metal plate in front of exit drilled with 10mm)
> I have extra some bolt; fuel line and oil line some other plastic like accelerator
> NB : I have been looking for presentation section with no success, if someone tell me if it is needed, if yes where I can find it
> 
> Many thanks
> Pierre (Belgium)


There are many rubber parts that are left over. Most are preassembled on the rear handle assembly.


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## cvx1170

Here is where I am






Envoyé de mon SM-G361F en utilisant Tapatalk


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## weimedog

cvx1170 said:


> Here is where I am
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Envoyé de mon SM-G361F en utilisant Tapatalk


Very nice, and if there were true Carbon Fiber covers..wonder how much weight would be lost?? Be really nice to get these at the same weight as a 372xt or 460.. A light bar helps too....


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## Ozhoo

Clone candy


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## davhul

Let me get the one on the right


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## weimedog

Ozhoo said:


> Clone candy
> 
> View attachment 551326


Haven't cloned the safety "stickers" yet.....


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## Ozhoo

Both are on their 3rd or so tank


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## MustangMike

I guess I don't need a clone now, got this today for fixing another 066 and 2 MS460s. Needs a lot of clean up, but it runs nice and is not really in bad shape.

This handle went on the other 066 I fixed, which was very bent. It also need an oil cap. Looking forward to playing with it a bit and seeing how well I can get it to run.


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## weimedog

Ozhoo said:


> Both are on their 3rd or so tank




Saw number two, the "warbler" had some work on the rakers....why its warbling! Might benefit from a gage!....swap bars and do that again, or use the same bar from one saw to the next and thats a good comparison on the same wood (assuming even diameters) same day.... It would be interesting to see you do that comparison on minimizing differences though....Both got through the wood! I do like running the 56mm versions with my buds stocker though. Thats fun Either way thanks for the video! Much nicer to see & hear them running vs. just reading the theoretical chatter!


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## Bedford T

I found on my 660 that when I was cutting wood that also was quite dusty i would find dust had made it past the nut on top of the filter. i saw a flange nut that I had purchased to use to tighten the carb flange when doing a pressure test, the nuts with the nylon inserts really were not meant to turn down that far. I used one to tighten down the air filter and the flange nut appears to close the hole off well. they is plenty of thread left to hold the cover on.
you might try it, if you notice that occurring, filter seems to seal better.
http://www.huztl.net/M5-0-8-or-5mm-...p-Lock-Nut-Replace-9216-263-0700-p228462.html


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## thepunch45

Question for y'all I'm new to this forum band I gotta say it's great! Finished the build on my former tech 660 yesterday and it fired rite up. It doesn't run well at all.. seems like it's loading up .. won't rev.. then died.. wouldn't restart.. today I held throttle wide open and got it to start with same issues.. any ideas?


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## tbohn

thepunch45 said:


> Question for y'all I'm new to this forum band I gotta say it's great! Finished the build on my former tech 660 yesterday and it fired rite up. It doesn't run well at all.. seems like it's loading up .. won't rev.. then died.. wouldn't restart.. today I held throttle wide open and got it to start with same issues.. any ideas?


Is the plug wet?


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## thepunch45

tbohn said:


> Is the plug wet?


Yes .. seems like maybe too much fuel? Not sure .. gets hot fast too


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## tbohn

thepunch45 said:


> Yes .. seems like maybe too much fuel? Not sure .. gets hot fast too


Gets hot? Does it turn over without the plug in easily? Does it feel like it is binding?


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## thepunch45

tbohn said:


> Gets hot? Does it turn over without the plug in easily? Does it feel like it is binding?


Doesn't seem to be.. I've built a ton of stihl/husky saws in the past but never one of these knock off kits.. parts seem good quality .. I'm going to take the saw apart tomorrow and go Thru it I guess


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## MustangMike

Sounds like a possible problem with the float in the carb, I would check that first. Make sure the level it is set at is good, and pressure check the carb (both fittings) to 10 lbs. and make sure it holds.


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## cvx1170

Good morning to all,

These are the parts I have extra, could someone inform from where these parts are supposed to be? Than I can double check if it's on pre-built crankcase or fuel tank.

Thanks in advance
Pierre







Envoyé de mon SM-G361F en utilisant Tapatalk


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## thepunch45

cvx1170 said:


> Good morning to all,
> 
> These are the parts I have extra, could someone inform from where these parts are supposed to be? Than I can double check if it's on pre-built crankcase or fuel tank.
> 
> Thanks in advance
> Pierre
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Envoyé de mon SM-G361F en utilisant Tapatalk


I had the exact same extras


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## Chris3558

Go back to slide number 72 and you will see where several of these go. I missed the bushing on the far left and had to disassemble the handle assemble to get that one on. That small oring I believe goes in a small opening before the oil pump gets installed. The hose on the far right is the correct fuel tank hose. The one that comes installed is the wrong one, at least is was on my two saws. The rubber gromet 4th from the left the red and black electrical wires go thru it down to the coil and it fits into the hole on the case.


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## trboxman

cvx1170 said:


> Good morning to all,
> 
> These are the parts I have extra, could someone inform from where these parts are supposed to be? Than I can double check if it's on pre-built crankcase or fuel tank.
> 
> Thanks in advance
> Pierre
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Envoyé de mon SM-G361F en utilisant Tapatalk




There are several posts throughout this thread that identify these very parts. Read the thread and we won't have to answer the same question for the 5th or 6th time. I like to be helpful but I prefer to help those who help themselves first.


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## Bedford T

thepunch45 said:


> Yes .. seems like maybe too much fuel? Not sure .. gets hot fast too


That's a first. When a chainsaw gets to hot fast makes me think of an oil problem in the fuel. Or your holding your hand on the muffler. Surely neither are true. You did not put a heater/generator on it right.


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## thepunch45

Bedford T said:


> That's a first. When a chainsaw gets to hot fast makes me think of an oil problem in the fuel. Or your holding your hand on the muffler. Surely neither are true. You did not put a heater/generator on it right.



I did not have time yesterday to mess with it.. I run the same premix vp in all my saws.. and I have no issues.. it almost sounds like your trying to rev a saw with chain brake on


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## tbohn

thepunch45 said:


> I did not have time yesterday to mess with it.. I run the same premix vp in all my saws.. and I have no issues.. it almost sounds like your trying to rev a saw with chain brake on


How's the compression?


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## Chris3558

With the chain brake off, does the chain spin freely by hand? Some of those clutch covers are so out of round that could be holding things back?


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## Bedford T

We have discussed the drums and did not find but a few and those might have been victims of the ride and thin packing.


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## thepunch45

Bedford T said:


> We have discussed the drums and did not find but a few and those might have been victims of the ride and thin packing.




Pulled the flywheel and found the woodruff key broken. Replaced it and fired right up and runs like a beast


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## blsnelling

Tighten those flywheel nuts down good! The key is not intended to hold it in place. Locking the flywheel onto the taper is what holds it.


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## MustangMike

What Brad said, but also clean the crank & flywheel (but don't damage your oil seal). I often use brake cleaner to clean them, if they are not clean, the nut & friction will not hold it. Like Brad says, the key is just a guide, it does not hold it in place.


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## frag-88

the saw runs on logging. On the cutting whips. Over a week of use I bent the top handle (too soft). 
also somehow broke the brake handle... 
Even ran fuel tank cap. 
OEM cap is$ 5, the top handle of$ 25. the brake handle will order farmertec.


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## weimedog

frag-88 said:


> View attachment 551918
> 
> the saw runs on logging. On the cutting whips. Over a week of use I bent the top handle (too soft).
> also somehow broke the brake handle...
> Even ran fuel tank cap.
> OEM cap is$ 5, the top handle of$ 25. the brake handle will order farmertec.



I think we need a Russian built steel top handle and chain brake..


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## Bedford T

The Russians?


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## cvx1170

Running perfectly
Just 4pull and it blow u directly 
I'll need time tune the card with Tachymeter. But it is really nervous, will need to to test it in real. 
Seems that my first porting test is working [emoji1] 
I did remove perforated metal plate in muffler also. 














Envoyé de mon SM-G361F en utilisant Tapatalk


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## Rocketross57

Got mine all together and first couple heat cycles. The only issue is that danged chain brake mechanism. Guess I'll be making a trip to the dealer for a oem one. 

Sent from my LGL41C using Tapatalk


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## Bedford T

When did the ms660 brake become a problem that's on the 440.


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## davhul

Chris3558 said:


> As far as the shipping, I just received my 2nd MS660 today. Ordered it on Jan 3rd and 9 days later it was at my door! The first one took 10 days total. This 2nd one looks a littler more beat up? The box was damaged on one end and some of the parts are scratched up. The handle assembly, one corner got chipped.
> 
> The Chain brake assembly I bought a Stihl chain link lever to compare the two. The Stihl chain link lever works perfect with the kit handle and all the rest of the parts, no "redneck mods" needed. They look very close as far as parts go, but the geometry is different and that does make all the difference. I have a pic of both of them on a piece of paper with grid lines and if you look closely, the link position on the Stihl part "A" is about in the middle, on the Farmertec it a bit more towards the top. Also it looks like on the Stihl part "A", that arm is slightly longer? Farmertec suppliers need to disassemble a Stihl chain brake lever, measure every feature and copy the geometry exact.


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## davhul

Pics didn't transfer. Here's his pics.


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## Rocketross57

Bedford T said:


> When did the ms660 brake become a problem that's on the 440.


The kit that I got won't engage the brake. I was reading some past posts and was thinking it might be because of the mechanisms pivot points and the oem one will solve this?

Sent from my LGL41C using Tapatalk


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## cvx1170

Rocketross57 said:


> The kit that I got won't engage the brake. I was reading some past posts and was thinking it might be because of the mechanisms pivot points and the oem one will solve this?
> 
> Sent from my LGL41C using Tapatalk


I do have exactly save issue, it does not engage at all. 
From what I I read on this post OEM should fix this. 

Envoyé de mon SM-G361F en utilisant Tapatalk


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## cvx1170

Quick question for the motor cover, it seems that I am missing these parts (should be inserted in motor cover)

Am I wrong ? Do you have teh same, never seen any discussion about that
http://www.lsengineers.co.uk/bushing-stihl-part-no-0000-963-0808.html

Pierre


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## Ozhoo

cvx1170 said:


> Quick question for the motor cover, it seems that I am missing these parts (should be inserted in motor cover)
> 
> Am I wrong ? Do you have teh same, never seen any discussion about that
> http://www.lsengineers.co.uk/bushing-stihl-part-no-0000-963-0808.html
> 
> Pierre



Those grommets haven't been in any ones kit. Seems to be a toss up. The grommets keep you from over-torquing and cracking the plastic but on the other hand replacement cylinder covers are cheap. That said, I've put them in all the ones I've built.


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## Chris3558

Its like the heat tape under the muffler, that is missing from all the kits also.


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## Ozhoo

Chris3558 said:


> Its like the heat tape under the muffler, that is missing from all the kits also.



And that damned shutter


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## HoosierS

So does the chain brake link need replaced with oem or has anyone made a fix for it yet? I recall reading earlier in the post that people where having to shave off some of the plastic handle, or is this unrelated? I also thought someone mentioned they had to put a rivet in something or the other, or drilled something out related to the chain brake. I don't have my notes with me today.


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## Rocketross57

As far as the top cover grommets go, I found these at the local ace hardware in the bulk bins. I can't remember the size, but I found them in the drawer labeled aluminum spacers. They fit snugly into the plastic and are just a hair longer than the plastic is thick. Works great. 



Sent from my LGL41C using Tapatalk


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## Ozhoo

HoosierS said:


> So does the chain brake link need replaced with oem or has anyone made a fix for it yet? I recall reading earlier in the post that people where having to shave off some of the plastic handle, or is this unrelated? I also thought someone mentioned they had to put a rivet in something or the other, or drilled something out related to the chain brake. I don't have my notes with me today.



It's a crap shoot. I've seen them work fine and had the problem with the chain brake handle hitting the muffler on both 660's and 440's (170, 290, 310, 390, 361, 440, 460 & 660 use the same link). Seems some are choosing to carve the handle rather than replace the link. You gotta try it and see for yourself and at the same time have an oem link just in case.


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## HoosierS

My kit was 30 minutes from the house at 0400 this morning, so hopefully if it comes in today my wife can bring it by the station so I can start rummaging through it. There is a stihl dealer literally right next door to where I work but I hate going there. Guess I'll suck it up and see if he has one.


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## Rocketross57

On mine the handle hits the muffler and the link also doesn't work. 

Sent from my LGL41C using Tapatalk


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## Bedford T

A lot of you guys did not read the thread and are asking questions you should know


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## davhul

I had a little time this morning to start on my last kit that was ordered in late Sept. I got the case built then started cleaning up on the cylinder. The chain brake on this one works Fine. All I got left is install the Carb, Handle and muffler. It Passed press/vacc test and compression was good at 170psi without the gasket.


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## davhul

On that foil tape. On most my saws because that foil isn't cheap even for me I usually cut a piece of header wrap and dirko it down. Never had one come off


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## diezelsmoke

It might be just me but.......I would not show OEM parts next to whoever produces a copy of an OEM. Describing the differences etc. would be acceptable, not pictures. Just my $.02.


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## Bedford T

Smoke what's your reason for that. Comparison is part of life

It's not like you are comparing pee pees


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## HoosierS

So my kit came in, it all seems to be there minus the parts previously mentioned elsewhere. My cylinder was surprisingly clean, I suppose it could use a bit of a touching up. It had the $ sign instead of saying farmertec as I had seen earlier. 


The brake link was the typical farmertec design as previously shown. I didn't manage to get an oem one today, but will before I get it done. I purchased a hyway gasket set for the oil seals and it included the foil heat shield. Hopefully next week I can get it up and running.


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## Bedford T

They actually produce those jugs and label them for others. They make the spark plugs too.

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## Johnnybar

Hello AS forum! What a great site and bunch of guys! You guys have been my R&R all evening after re-blowing my left knee out while laying 280 ft of waterline today. I occasionally deal with some huge oaks and a 660 kit saw for $272 shipped would be nice to have for felling and a few bucking cuts. I've gone through most of the pages here but still feel I may overlook something when getting a 100% kit + misc stuff together. Is it asking too much to get a complete list of all OEM parts, special tools, sealants, recommended assembly lubes, etc that is needed for the Huztl kit? Hope I'm not being too hard headed but, I'm paranoid that some little missing tid bit or tool will set me back several weeks. On a related note, what's a fair price to offer for a new working 660 kit saw powerhead assembled by an experienced saw collector/hobbiest?


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## MustangMike

Holy crap, that is no $ sign, that is a KS jug, you lucky dog!!! I don't get no better than that! (maybe some Mahles)

A lot of the OEM P&C were/are KS.


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## Bedford T

Johnnybar said:


> Hello AS forum! What a great site and bunch of guys! You guys have been my R&R all evening after re-blowing my left knee out while laying 280 ft of waterline today. I occasionally deal with some huge oaks and a 660 kit saw for $272 shipped would be nice to have for felling and a few bucking cuts. I've gone through most of the pages here but still feel I may overlook something when getting a 100% kit + misc stuff together. Is it asking too much to get a complete list of all OEM parts, special tools, sealants, recommended assembly lubes, etc that is needed for the Huztl kit? Hope I'm not being too hard headed but, I'm paranoid that some little missing tid bit or tool will set me back several weeks. On a related note, what's a fair price to offer for a new working 660 kit saw powerhead assembled by an experienced saw collector/hobbiest?



i would love to help you. i will write it all down for you. if you want send me the kit i will build it for you and you won't need to mess with learning all this stuff.

$600 +s
or since your down and out you get a pad of paper some pop corn and start at the first post and start reading. hint write the post # and a short description of its contents and move on. you will not miss a thing. then come out and say i would like to know what post # means and we will help you. easy peasy


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## Bedford T

MustangMike said:


> Holy crap, that is no $ sign, that is a KS jug, you lucky dog!!! I don't get no better than that! (maybe some Mahles)
> 
> A lot of the OEM P&C were/are KS.



that was produced by farmertec


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## BuckthornBonnie

MustangMike said:


> Holy crap, that is no $ sign, that is a KS jug, you lucky dog!!! I don't get no better than that! (maybe some Mahles)
> 
> A lot of the OEM P&C were/are KS.


Ummm...did they just copy Kolbenschmidt's tm? Or is that just a coincidence?
Or something more...?


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## MustangMike

Copying someone's design is one thing, copying a trademark ... that is taboo!!! (and just plain out disingenuous)

They keep doing that, there will be legal problems.

Trademark protection does not expire like a patent. I advise you to give your friends a heads up!


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## Bedford T

What would you advise them? Quit making cylinders for them?
Sometimes people assume they know when they don't. That cylinder is on eBay with its mark showing for less than 40$. 

I don't feel friendly I feel knowledgeable.

The sky is not falling


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## davhul

In think i seen a post on this in the other forum. It's close to the same symbol could be same.


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## Bedford T

Wow can everybody see that says Stihl. A lot of you guys act like old ladies. My mother used to call it a motor mouth. 

Thanks davhul


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## Bedford T

I just looked closely and that is not a dollar sign. Least one like on the other aftermarket jug that has two down strokes. Not sure what it is.


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## BuckthornBonnie

Old ladies?


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## Bedford T

That's the stereotype to which I was referring. Not your age


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## HoosierS

So I pressed my halves together this evening, I used a thin film of motoseal on each half with the hyway gasket which was a little thinner then the farmertec gasket. On the space between the crank and wall I have .035 on one side and .025 on the other, I whacked it with a hammer and can't seem to get it to move over. I suppose I could get it in the press but I hate pressing on the crank side with the threads. Should I be good with this clearance or should I try to get it to .030 on each side of the crank?


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## Chris3558

Myself, I like to get each side within .003 or so. Put a .030 feeler gauge in the .035 side and hit the other end of the crank with a plastic or brass hammer, you should be very close.


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## Bedford T

Be gentle. Lady whacks


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## Johnnybar

Have you tried spacers/washers and a nut to pull gently while tapping the other end gently and a .030 shim or feeler gauge is inserted for a stop? Make sure the washer next to the crankcase is big enough to rest on the outer race of the bearing and that the washer stack is at least one washer thickness taller than the square shoulder on the crank where the threads begin.


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## blsnelling

Bedford T said:


> i would love to help you. i will write it all down for you. if you want send me the kit i will build it for you and you won't need to mess with learning all this stuff.
> 
> $600 +s
> or since your down and out you get a pad of paper some pop corn and start at the first post and start reading. hint write the post # and a short description of its contents and move on. you will not miss a thing. then come out and say i would like to know what post # means and we will help you. easy peasy





Bedford T said:


> What would you advise them? Quit making cylinders for them?
> Sometimes people assume they know when they don't. That cylinder is on eBay with its mark showing for less than 40$.
> 
> I don't feel friendly I feel knowledgeable.
> 
> The sky is not falling





Bedford T said:


> Wow can everybody see that says Stihl. A lot of you guys act like old ladies. My mother used to call it a motor mouth.
> 
> Thanks davhul





Bedford T said:


> Be gentle. Lady whacks



What's your problem?


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## Johnnybar

post # 1795


HoosierS said:


> So I pressed my halves together this evening, I used a thin film of motoseal on each half with the hyway gasket which was a little thinner then the farmertec gasket. On the space between the crank and wall I have .035 on one side and .025 on the other, I whacked it with a hammer and can't seem to get it to move over. I suppose I could get it in the press but I hate pressing on the crank side with the threads. Should I be good with this clearance or should I try to get it to .030 on each side of the crank?


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## HoosierS

I tapped and rapped and gave a few hard whacks and didn't budge it. In an act of desperation I put a plastic hammer on top of the threaded part and put a deep socket over the bearing race on the other side, got both sides to perfectly .030 but as soon as I let the press off it went back how it was before. When I first got the halves together they where both .035, but when I torqued the bolts down the one side came in to .025 while the other side stayed at .035. I'm done fooling with it tonight, may take it to the station with me tomorrow to mess with it in my downtime. I'll give the nut and washer trick a try. My shift partner used to be my mechanic so maybe he can offer some insight as well.


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## Johnnybar

HoosierS said:


> I tapped and rapped and gave a few hard whacks and didn't budge it. In an act of desperation I put a plastic hammer on top of the threaded part and put a deep socket over the bearing race on the other side, got both sides to perfectly .030 but as soon as I let the press off it went back how it was before. When I first got the halves together they where both .035, but when I torqued the bolts down the one side came in to .025 while the other side stayed at .035. I'm done fooling with it tonight, may take it to the station with me tomorrow to mess with it in my downtime. I'll give the nut and washer trick a try. My shift partner used to be my mechanic so maybe he can offer some insight as well.


You don't have to track down a hex nut...just spin the clutch on and tweek it with it's center nut. Seems like most builds I remember seeing specs on had .070" total case clearance for .035" per side.


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## weimedog

Johnnybar said:


> You don't have to track down a hex nut...just spin the clutch on and tweek it with it's center nut. Seems like most builds I remember seeing specs on had .070" total case clearance for .035" per side.


Every one is an individual so that can vary a few thou. Best to either measure before hand or simply use feeler gages to first measure both sides as assembled then do a little math to decide what centered is for that particular saw.


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## weimedog

Ozhoo said:


> It's a crap shoot. I've seen them work fine and had the problem with the chain brake handle hitting the muffler on both 660's and 440's (170, 290, 310, 390, 361, 440, 460 & 660 use the same link). Seems some are choosing to carve the handle rather than replace the link. You gotta try it and see for yourself and at the same time have an oem link just in case.



I think crap shoot is the right analogy as all mine work from last year and the year before. But this might simply be another place where there has been multiple suppliers and where OEM might be a good option as the cost is relatively low. Simple solution if its a real problem and you need the saw quickly.


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## weimedog

HoosierS said:


> I tapped and rapped and gave a few hard whacks and didn't budge it. In an act of desperation I put a plastic hammer on top of the threaded part and put a deep socket over the bearing race on the other side, got both sides to perfectly .030 but as soon as I let the press off it went back how it was before. When I first got the halves together they where both .035, but when I torqued the bolts down the one side came in to .025 while the other side stayed at .035. I'm done fooling with it tonight, may take it to the station with me tomorrow to mess with it in my downtime. I'll give the nut and washer trick a try. My shift partner used to be my mechanic so maybe he can offer some insight as well.


Another possible reason is the crank is up against a bearing...the bearing might be seated a little different and that's what you are going to have. .010" isn't the end of the world. If that crank turns freely and the seals are right ...that's what is more important


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## grizz55chev

^^^^^^ This!


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## HoosierS

Alrght, I finally got it to .032 on one side and .035 on the other. I thought it spun freely before, but much more so now. So I'm happy with the results, we will see as I go along. I attribute some of the size differences to the fact I didn't use the huztl gasket and the hyway was much thinner. Thanks for all the answers, I never got around to doing the nut and washer method, I cheated and put a brass hammer on the shaft with the nut on it and a deep well socket on the inner race of the other side, one pump on the press and got the results listed. I suppose it may have went closer, just didn't want to push it. Now onto putting other stuff together, going to wait to wait until I get chance to hone the cylinder a little to clean up any burrs that might be there before that gets installed. Will probably take a little bit for me to get one done as I tend to get a bit OCD on stuff.


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## davhul

I fired mine up yesterday and had a high idle like some here posted. Before I mounted the carb I made sure the butterfly would close all the way which it did. One thing I noticed was a slight gap all the way around the butterfly. Like the brass butterfly is machined slightly to small. I'm talking a hair. I'll have to look at it more and may swap out the butterfly or carb. My other 2 kits idled fine. It Has no air leaks.


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## Johnnybar

davhul said:


> I fired mine up yesterday and had a high idle like some here posted. Before I mounted the carb I made sure the butterfly would close all the way which it did. One thing I noticed was a slight gap all the way around the butterfly. Like the brass butterfly is machined slightly to small. I'm talking a hair. I'll have to look at it more and may swap out the butterfly or carb. My other 2 kits idled fine. It Has no air leaks.


Did you try loosening the butterfly screw partially then see if butterfly will center in the bore completely when rotating the shaft before retightening it?


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## davhul

Johnnybar said:


> Did you try loosening the butterfly screw partially then seeing if butterfly will center in the bore completely when rotating the shaft before retightening it?



I did. That's when I noticed there's a slight gap all the way around. Ill take it off tomorrow afternoon and check it more. And get pics


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## Chris3558

Check the idle screws also. On my two saws, both the idle screws were slightly bent. You may be able to chuck up the screw adjusting end in a drill and lightly tap it with a piece of brass? I put them in a collet on the lathe and tap them in until they run true. I did fire up my 2nd saw this afternoon. The chain brake works with the kit lever link. There is a difference between the lever link I got with the first kit and the one I received with the 2nd. Hopefully they keep sending out the good links!


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## EB Saw

I just built up my 440 kit from huztl and my carb had erratic idle and i couldn't get it to idle. The idle tab was not bent right causing the idle screw to do nothing. I eneded up just buying another chinese carb off ebay, and it runns perfet now, the issue might not have been in the carb but the idle adjusting was not working so for 13$ for a new carb, it was worth every penny, she runns perfectly now.


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## davhul

I guess having 2 out of 3 carbs work fine is good odds lately. I'm not going to spend much time on it. I'm probably going to end up putting a WJ-76 on it.


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## Johnnybar

Chris3558 said:


> Check the idle screws also. On my two saws, both the idle screws were slightly bent. You may be able to chuck up the screw adjusting end in a drill and lightly tap it with a piece of brass? I put them in a collet on the lathe and tap them in until they run true. I did fire up my 2nd saw this afternoon. The chain brake works with the kit lever link. There is a difference between the lever link I got with the first kit and the one I received with the 2nd. Hopefully they keep sending out the good links!


They have two generations of the brake linkage available at Huztl now #1121 160 5000 and #1128 160 5000. I'm guessing the 1128 version is the working copy. Can anyone verify that it is and that it is currently shipped with the 660 complete kits ? They can be added to the order for a buck and change in case the dud linkage is sent in the kits.


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## weimedog

I dug through the spare carbs as i swapped in walbros, have two completely different styles of AM carbs..one where I can put in the walbro jet. The other fixed jets. Took one of the ones where I could put in the walbro pn112-466-74-1 jet. And also put in a throttle plate from an old walbro wj35a which has the same "notch" and bling saw idles at 2600...nicely. takes around five minutes before it loads up a bit so you can't hit the throttle and go. Also instead of the low speed two turns out and the high almost 3...the low speed is now one turn and the high 1 and maybe an a little. Maybe another 1/8. Much improved. The walbro throttle plate fits better to the bore. So one of three things could have helped, the throttle plate, the jetting, or me setting the metering level in the carb....lol


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## weimedog

The other interesting thing bling saw allowed me to see is that huztl 56mm with the short piston has classic signs of too much intake duration but since it's Damn near 100cc with a big flywheel it doesn't matter as much.
And as you get down around 3000 it begins to start misting back through the carb when the throttle is opened. Still idles at 2800...forced it to 2600 but by that time it's pretty obvious when you crack the throttle. Got it to be stable at 2600...but it's happier at 2800 or more. Any less and it loads up when the throttle is open..
bottom line is they are more temperamental. But still run well.


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## cvx1170

Do somebody knows if huztl forecast to potentially extend the complete machine parts to other model like 260 ect? Is there any plan, schedule?


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## tbohn

weimedog said:


> I dug through the spare carbs as i swapped in walbros, have two completely different styles of AM carbs..one where I can put in the walbro jet. The other fixed jets. Took one of the ones where I could put in the walbro pn112-466-74-1 jet. And also put in a throttle plate from an old walbro wj35a which has the same "notch" and bling saw idles at 2600...nicely. takes around five minutes before it loads up a bit so you can't hit the throttle and go. Also instead of the low speed two turns out and the high almost 3...the low speed is now one turn and the high 1 and maybe an a little. Maybe another 1/8. Much improved. The walbro throttle plate fits better to the bore. So one of three things could have helped, the throttle plate, the jetting, or me setting the metering level in the carb....lol


Can you tell the difference between the fixed jet and removable jet carbs other than removing the cover?


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## weimedog

The one with the removable jet had a bunch of numbers stamped in places sort of like oem.. and to confuse things more there was two versions. ..one with a different choke ..the return springs on one are both on one side on the ones with fixed jets & one of the ones with removable jets. But all the ones with fixed jets have no markings and both return springs for the choke are on one side.


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## jackjcc

cvx1170 said:


> Do somebody knows if huztl forecast to potentially extend the complete machine parts to other model like 260 ect? Is there any plan, schedule?



There's rumors of 200t and 290 being added. Nothing official as far as I know. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## HoosierS

My carb has a H in the middle of hlic cast on it, I googled it and it comes up as the Fujian Hualong Carburetor Co. I haven't checked to see if the jet is removable or not yet.


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## frag-88

Hello all. Next, a small but breaking ...
Clutch Spring ...


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## davhul

Get oem springs. Those are to tight anyway. Their like $1-1.50 each


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## frag-88

ordered 3 pieces. wait for 3 days. cost of 0.7$ per piece.


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## davhul

The clutch suppose to engage about 3000rpm


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## davhul

Looks like your working it. How many tanks you think you have so far?


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## frag-88

davhul said:


> Looks like your working it. How many tanks you think you have so far?


the saw runs in the woods every day. Conditions heavy. worked approximately 25 litres of fuel


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## tbohn

frag-88 said:


> the saw runs in the woods every day. Conditions heavy. worked approximately 25 litres of fuel


Any other issues?


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## frag-88

tbohn said:


> Any other issues?


you mean broke something else?


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## tbohn

frag-88 said:


> you mean broke something else?


Yes. Besides the clutch spring, what other issues have you had to deal with? You have more REAL time on your saw than most of us.


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## frag-88

tbohn said:


> Yes. Besides the clutch spring, what other issues have you had to deal with? You have more REAL time on your saw than most of us.


I wrote earlier about the first breakdowns in this thread a few pages back. the first bent upper handle. Second - I can't understand how we broke the brake handle. spring clutch third problem...


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## davhul

I remember seeing that. Those handles are real soft. I put a good used oem on


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## frag-88

davhul said:


> I remember seeing that. Those handles are real soft. I put a good used oem on


I wrote to technical support about huztl soft handles. They offered to reimburse me the$ 5. And said I will think about improving the quality of this part. Actually, I think you need to write to them about the damage... Perhaps someday, they will come to the quality of stihl...


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## Bedford T

They don't have technical support. They have customer service. They told me they don't think it's a good idea for everybody to buy one for that reason. But we are supporting each other and that works. 

Since they don't use the saws I am sure they are happy to hear about things like the handle. I have often said send a nice email and let them know. Up until recently no one wrote them until they were mad and got nowhere. It's too bad they don't have wrap handles I understand they are tougher


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## weimedog

frag-88 said:


> I wrote to technical support about huztl soft handles. They offered to reimburse me the$ 5. And said I will think about improving the quality of this part. Actually, I think you need to write to them about the damage... Perhaps someday, they will come to the quality of stihl...


I've bent two handles so far. Both times yanking the saw out of a pinch. HLSupply has a "HyWay" brand handle I'm going to try, and the "Bling Saw" got an OEM handle but they are pricey...almost $60 bucks..


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## cvx1170

Rocketross57 said:


> The kit that I got won't engage the brake. I was reading some past posts and was thinking it might be because of the mechanisms pivot points and the oem one will solve this?
> 
> Sent from my LGL41C using Tapatalk


Issue resolved with OEM. 
In same time I did change chain tentiometer by OEM. 
Saw working 100% as of today. 

Pierre


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## MustangMike

Now you guys tell me about the handles!!! I already ordered one for my 066. The current handle is an OEM one that I unbent, but not perfectly. I'm running AM handles on both my 044 and MS 440 w/o any issues so far.


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## davhul

Sorry mike. I posted about mine back in October. And He posted a few days ago. It might be ok with a 20-25" bar. I had this on it


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## Chris3558

Now that is a mean looking saw!!!! Tim Allen would be proud!!


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## davhul

Really with that bar it needs the oiler upgrade. But if your cutting one tree that size and have a good sharp chain and rev it a few times between cuts it worked. I mainly was seeing how it run under load for long cuts. A saw this size should run a long bar no problem or why have that heavy saw. The lighter oem clutch springs really helped. No complaints on the saw so far he's still using it. This is saw #2 from October


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## weimedog

[QUOTdon't ustangMike, post: 6133364, member: 120204"]Now you guys tell me about the handles!!! I already ordered one for my 066. The current handle is an OEM one that I unbent, but not perfectly. I'm running AM handles on both my 044 and MS 440 w/o any issues so far.[/QUOTE]
Just don't pinch!


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## frag-88

weimedog said:


> I've bent two handles so far. Both times yanking the saw out of a pinch. HLSupply has a "HyWay" brand handle I'm going to try, and the "Bling Saw" got an OEM handle but they are pricey...almost $60 bucks..


I bought an OEM top handle. She came to 31$. The brake handle forward farmertec...


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## MustangMike

davhul said:


> Sorry mike. I posted about mine back in October. And He posted a few days ago. It might be ok with a 20-25" bar. I had this on it



My response was mostly tongue in cheek, if I read those posts before I had an 066, or needed a handle, they likely would not have "stuck" any way. Just thought it was ironic that right after I ordered it (and I specifically looked for Huztl cause I knew they were making these saws), I see the posts!

What size bar you got on that saw?

066/660s were eluding me for a while, and then is seems as if I fell into 2 of them almost at the same time. I plan to run a 36" light bar on one, and a 24" wide nose .063 ga on the other for milling.

I was stumping some Red & Chestnut Oak with the 36" bar and a 066 last week, and was very impressed with the way it pulled, even with an 8 pin rim.


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## davhul

It's a 36". Running skip chain. That's how my luck goes sometime


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## weimedog

[QUOTE="frag-88, post: 6133666, member: 141106]I bought an OEM top handle. She came to 31$. The brake handle forward farmertec...[/QUOTE]
Where??? My local dealer wanted around 60. So I paid that much


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## davhul

I got a like new one off eBay for $35. All it had was a rub mark on the bottom


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## frag-88

weimedog said:


> [QUOTE="frag-88, post: 6133666, member: 141106]I bought an OEM top handle. She came to 31$. The brake handle forward farmertec...


Where??? My local dealer wanted around 60. So I paid that much[/QUOTE]
http://drovosek-profi.ru 
the official dealer of STIHL in my city


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## cvx1170

davhul said:


> Pics didn't transfer. Here's his pics.


Did somebody have an advice to install chain spring for brake? 

I did it but it has been complicated and a bit dangerous 

Tnx 
Pierre


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## Chris3558

There are tools for installing the spring, I just use a small needle nose vice grips which works pretty good.


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## Ozhoo

cvx1170 said:


> Did somebody have an advice to install chain spring for brake?
> 
> I did it but it has been complicated and a bit dangerous
> 
> Tnx
> Pierre



If you're using the right spring there isn't that much tension. I just hook the lever end first, then use a pair of needle nose to pull the spring over the pin.


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## davhul

And set the brake. It relieves some of the tension on the spring


----------



## blsnelling

I clamp Vise Grips to the spring and pull it into place.


----------



## cvx1170

I just drilled this screwdriver and it should do the job. Tnx for the the replies





Envoyé de mon SM-G361F en utilisant Tapatalk


----------



## HoosierS

I just finished mine up this evening, held pressure and vacuum and had good compression. Hopefully tomorrow when I go off duty i can get it fired up. Plan on mixing some ethanol free high octane up just for it. Was anyone else missing the chain catcher?


----------



## HoosierS

Also, I'm going to have to get an oem chain brake link. As far as installing the spring, I put one end on the link and stuck a driver without the bit through and stuck the hole over the pin, then slid the spring down onto it pulling the driver out. That way I was able to work the driver one handed and hold the other side secure on the linl with my free hand.


----------



## atpchas

cvx1170 said:


> I just drilled this screwdriver and it should do the job. Tnx for the the replies
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Envoyé de mon SM-G361F en utilisant Tapatalk


Did the same mod on a screwdriver a few years back and smile every time I use it. So simple, so efficient, and so safe.


----------



## Racr350

Hey guys, having read every single post of this thread, along with watching every "Afleetcommand" video ever, decided to pull the trigger on one of these puzzles a month ago or so. Assembly was actually really straightforward. I was really surprised. Everyone panicking about the crank seals rolling when pressing the crank through actually got me a little nervous. But it was surprisingly simple to get the lip of the seal up over the step on the Clucth side of the Crank. Got the 660 finished up Monday. Along with Bridge Porting and Dropping the Cylinder, I decided to give the Velocity Stack/UNI Filter a try. Also figured out a way to run that filter set up, and still utilize the air box cover to keep crap out of the Carburetor area. Saw tested @ 175psi, and is capped at 12k until I run a few tanks through it. I'm extremely impressed. This saw is an already an animal, and it's still in "Limp Mode". Cant wait to see what it's fully capable of. As far as issues, the only ones I had were the typical chain tensioner gripes, and a useless chain brake link. Also the muffler didn't come with the gasket to seal the two halves...is that normal or something my kit lacked? Either way ill just grab one for a few bucks. Now im setting my sights on a 440 for the next project.


----------



## EB Saw

Racr350 said:


> Hey guys, having read every single post of this thread, along with watching every "Afleetcommand" video ever, decided to pull the trigger on one of these puzzles a month ago or so. Assembly was actually really straightforward. I was really surprised. Everyone panicking about the crank seals rolling when pressing the crank through actually got me a little nervous. But it was surprisingly simple to get the lip of the seal up over the step on the Clucth side of the Crank. Got the 660 finished up Monday. Along with Bridge Porting and Dropping the Cylinder, I decided to give the Velocity Stack/UNI Filter a try. Also figured out a way to run that filter set up, and still utilize the air box cover to keep crap out of the Carburetor area. Saw tested @ 175psi, and is capped at 12k until I run a few tanks through it. I'm extremely impressed. This saw is an already an animal, and it's still in "Limp Mode". Cant wait to see what it's fully capable of. As far as issues, the only ones I had were the typical chain tensioner gripes, and a useless chain brake link. Also the muffler didn't come with the gasket to seal the two halves...is that normal or something my kit lacked? Either way ill just grab one for a few bucks. Now im setting my sights on a 440 for the next project.



That thing looks great, great job.


----------



## Racr350

EB Saw said:


> That thing looks great, great job.



Thank you! Im very impressed with the whole thing. I wasnt sure what to expect with the finished product, but it certainly blew any expectations I may have had right out of the water.


----------



## Ozhoo

Racr350 said:


> ... but it certainly blew any expectations I may have had right out of the water.



That's the most common reaction. Sure you can feel a difference between OEM and Aftermarket, but for most of us the price difference more than makes up for it's faults.

Good job on the build


----------



## tbohn

Racr350 said:


> Thank you! Im very impressed with the whole thing. I wasnt sure what to expect with the finished product, but it certainly blew any expectations I may have had right out of the water.


Put an 8 pin rim on it and you'll be even more impressed for most cutting.


----------



## Johnnybar

I wonder if anyone with a 440 or 660 huztl is near a small engine dyno to see what the hp and torque looks like?


----------



## Racr350

Ozhoo said:


> That's the most common reaction. Sure you can feel a difference between OEM and Aftermarket, but for most of us the price difference more than makes up for it's faults.
> 
> Good job on the build



Thanks! Wish I knew someone with an OEM 660 to compare it to. I'm sure the results would continue to impress me.



tbohn said:


> Put an 8 pin rim on it and you'll be even more impressed for most cutting.



Why do you say that? Im not doubting you or anything...just thought the 9 Pin on a 20" bar was the "magic" setup.


----------



## tbohn

Racr350 said:


> Thanks! Wish I knew someone with an OEM 660 to compare it to. I'm sure the results would continue to impress me.
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you say that? Im not doubting you or anything...just thought the 9 Pin on a 20" bar was the "magic" setup.


Agreed. Thought you had standard 7 pin rim.


----------



## Racr350

tbohn said:


> Agreed. Thought you had standard 7 pin rim.



I do at the moment...the 9 Pin is on it's way still.


----------



## tbohn

Racr350 said:


> I do at the moment...the 9 Pin is on it's way still.


In small to medium softwood, it is difficult to slow the saw down with an 8 pin. Where are you getting the 9 pin from? I would like to try one. 
If you're asking why I'm using a 660 on small to medium softwood you just don't get it!


----------



## blsnelling

IMHO, a 9-pin rim has no business on a 600. In wood of any size, a 7-pin will work best.


----------



## Racr350

tbohn said:


> In small to medium softwood, it is difficult to slow the saw down with an 8 pin. Where are you getting the 9 pin from? I would like to try one.
> If you're asking why I'm using a 660 on small to medium softwood you just don't get it!



Oh trust me, I get it! It's a Danzco Performance 9 Pin Rim, and it is coming from "dssjms" on eBay. I believe that's "Definitive Dave" on here (?)


----------



## tbohn

blsnelling said:


> IMHO, a 9-pin rim has no business on a 600. In wood of any size, a 7-pin will work best.


I trust that you know what you are talking about. But...why do you think this?


----------



## blsnelling

From trying it and watching others try it over the years.


----------



## tbohn

blsnelling said:


> From trying it and watching others try it over the years.


The chain speed for an 8 pin is 14% faster than a 7 pin and a 9 pin is 29% faster (assuming the same RPM). It just shows chain speed is not the only factor.


----------



## blsnelling

It takes a lot more torque to turn it. Only the strongest of ported 90cc saws will be faster in the cut with a 36" bar cutting proper size wood.


----------



## davhul

It's like changing the rear end gears in your car. I liked a 7 on mine. I tried the 8.


----------



## Johnnybar

Brad, Probably good advice for a work saw but I see nothing wrong with saw builders / tinkerers playing around with pin #s...especially with shorter bars and soft woods. Isn't this part of how race saws came about. I thought I read many reports of good results with 8 pins and moderate bars on 90 class saws with recommendations to return to 7 for felling & bucking with longer bars.


----------



## davhul

I plan on testing a 660 tomorrow and if I can find the clutch for my 064 then Ill run it also. I did swap the carb to a WJ-76 that has a .74 jet.


----------



## davhul

HoosierS said:


> I just finished mine up this evening, held pressure and vacuum and had good compression. Hopefully tomorrow when I go off duty i can get it fired up. Plan on mixing some ethanol free high octane up just for it. Was anyone else missing the chain catcher?



Did you get a chance to give her a spin?


----------



## Racr350

davhul said:


> I plan on testing a 660 tomorrow and if I can find the clutch for my 064 then Ill run it also. I did swap the carb to a WJ-76 that has a .74 jet.



Just got my .74 Jet in the mail today. I do believe I have the A/M Carb that is the replaceable jet style. Do you find it made a difference? I was thinking as "wild" as I built mine, I'd need it. But at the same time, my carb honestly didnt seem to be lacking in keeping up with fuel flow. While breaking in, I could add enough fuel on top to keep it limited at a safe 12k. Im starting to wonder if I'll actually gain anything.


----------



## davhul

Racr350 said:


> Just got my .74 Jet in the mail today. I do believe I have the A/M Carb that is the replaceable jet style. Do you find it made a difference? I was thinking as "wild" as I built mine, I'd need it. But at the same time, my carb honestly didnt seem to be lacking in keeping up with fuel flow. While breaking in, I could add enough fuel on top to keep it limited at a safe 12k. Im starting to wonder if I'll actually gain anything.



On the last one I did with mild porting and port matching the baffle less muffler. I was almost 2 turns out with the .64 jet. I like my adjustment to stay 3/4 to no more than 1 1/2 but that's just me.


----------



## davhul

My high idle was due to the butterfly not sealing tight in the bore. This is after re-centering and the arm wasn't touching the screw.





walbro


----------



## davhul

Brad probity could elaborate on this but when you port and change the timings the factory rpm setting doesn't mean as much.


----------



## frag-88

Another mysterious thing about farmertec 660 56mm bore. 
Saw 2 times start with reverse rotation of the crankshaft)))
I did not measure the compression after assembly, but without decompressor saw not really start ... The cylinder is 1 gasket Farmertec ...


----------



## davhul

If I read that right I don't believe it could start and run backwards. The recoil would have to exit front of the cover. It's a 90cc saw so you have to pull it like your trying to rip the rope out.


----------



## frag-88

It turns out that too early ignition. Saw factory in the opposite direction and the smoke coming from the air filter))


----------



## Definitive Dave

blsnelling said:


> IMHO, a 9-pin rim has no business on a 600. In wood of any size, a 7-pin will work best.


I run a 10 pin on a few of mine but they aren't for firewood


----------



## weimedog

I like the 9 pin for the 56mm saw & 22 nch minus wood. All I have is hard wood and its got plenty of beans to pull that 9. I would recommend an eight pin if any one asked or if a person didn't have time to learn finesse....


----------



## weimedog

To those where it kicks back hard, might want to check to see if your fly wheel hasn't moved and or check the gap between the flywheel & the ignition. For a while on this thread there was a rash of flywheel/key way issues probably related to how tight the flywheel nut was tightened, but was a trend on this thread a while back.


----------



## Racr350

Definitive Dave said:


> I run a 10 pin on a few of mine but they aren't for firewood


Damn...that thing must absolutely rip.


----------



## davhul

Racr what mix and ratio you like using


----------



## Racr350

davhul said:


> Racr what mix and ratio you like using


32:1 with Amsoil Dominator. Never had a Scuffed Cylinder..


----------



## davhul

That's good stuff. I've been running e-0 90 with 40:1 Kl200


----------



## Racr350

davhul said:


> That's good stuff. I've been running e-0 90 with 40:1 Kl200


Cant go wrong with Klotz products. Guess I forgot to mention fuel type...its 91 Ethanol Free.


----------



## davhul

I got a vid earlier and it runs good. I was happy. You might can hear it's far from stock and I was running a pretty aggressive chain. I'll upload when I get back later.


----------



## Johnnybar

frag-88 said:


> It turns out that too early ignition. Saw factory in the opposite direction and the smoke coming from the air filter))


Guess you mean it fired BTDC, like the old hand crank cars and tractors that would break your arm if you weren't careful, and as a result kick started itself into reverse running? Curious how many parts of the recoil starter had to be replaced? Sounds like a "make sure your decomp valve is in perfect order" training film to me.


----------



## davhul

This is one vid I uploaded. It ran pretty good and held rpm as well. The tune held where ever I set it. Here it was at 12,300 and I could tell it was pretty fat but Later in the day i found it likes to be around 13-13,200 And still strokes good. I might run it tomorrow and put some more time on it then check compression. As you can see I short pulled it on the restart. You have to fully commit and should have the brake on.


----------



## Racr350

Looks like a strong runner and a hell of a noddler! That restart reminds me of my build. You definitely have to be aware of whats on the other end of that recoil when you pull. So your free rev rpm is a tick over 13k? Seems like thats what these buids like to run at. Id be interested in what the Piston Wash, i.e. Scavenge Pattern, and Plug color looks like after a hard run at that tune.


----------



## davhul

I didn't mind it being on the fat side that was the first real run and at 12,300. For the 2 cuts I did at low 13's I could tell it woke up. I'll find the high end of the tune once I run some gas through it. The other 2 saws I stopped the tune around 12.8-13 because that's all they wanted. I suspect I may leave this one in mid 13's and still sound safe.


----------



## weimedog

Yup, last two years taught me 12500, was fat, 12800 was safe for MOST of these MS660's, 13000 was crisp. Bling saw is at 13500. Had to put a carb on that could deliver enough fuel consistently to support that tune. Now have dark brown plugs on Bling Saw (not a standard 54 or 56mm build! ) at the 13400-13500 it is set at..on to the next set of mods. Need more transfer x-sectional area..


----------



## davhul

Do you plan on raising the band and dropping the cylinder to get it up around 190 psi? Have you thought about trying that mmws cylinder


----------



## weimedog

davhul said:


> Do you plan on raising the band and dropping the cylinder to get it up around 190 psi? Have you thought about trying that mmws cylinder


Not on the 56mm cylinders, pretty much all I did with them 2 year's ago is clean up the ports. I guess that intake horn I got last year is a mod. To be honest those 56mm's are hard enough to pull over as it is. Even though I thoroughly understand the importance of compression & squish relative to efficiency....a man has to know his limitations. My 56mm "bling saw" is at .034 squish so it wouldn't be hard to take another .010 and wouldn't add enough to the free port to matter. "Bling" saw has turned out to be both useful and fun, even though its not "optimal" so I'm going to just run it for a while as is. On the 54's thats another story, as a few have come with .050+ squish and I have put them on the lathe to get them in the mid .020's . BIG difference BTW definitely worth doing along with a clean up & adjusting of the ports. An obvious difference. The good news is unlike the Husqvarna's, you can take a LOT off the base w/o making it too thin.


----------



## davhul

Sounds good. Which 54 has the squish down to mid 20? I'll have to check out that vid I bet it runs strong


----------



## Racr350

Bridge Ports are definitely the way to go IMO. You get too wild with Finger porting, and you'll have to flip the piston, as snagging a ring is almost guaranteed. Bridge Porting is much safer and easier on the rings, yet flows just as much as a Finger/Boost Port. The only advantage to Finger Porting is you can truly change where the air/fuel charge hits the combustion chamber. Not worth it to me...


----------



## weimedog

davhul said:


> Sounds good. Which 54 has the squish down to mid 20? I'll have to check out that vid I bet it runs strong


Those never made the video's in a big way...had a "Cameo" in this one


----------



## davhul

weimedog said:


> Not on the 56mm cylinders, pretty much all I did with them 2 year's ago is clean up the ports and add a finger/bridge x-sectional area addition to the transfers towards the intake side and simple muffler mods. Trying to get their R's up a little. I guess that intake horn I got last year is a mod. To be honest those 56mm's are hard enough to pull over as it is. Even though I thoroughly understand the importance of compression & squish relative to efficiency....a man has to know his limitations. My 56mm "bling saw" is at .034 squish so it wouldn't be hard to take another .010 and wouldn't add enough to the free port to matter. "Bling" saw has turned out to be both useful and fun, even though its not "optimal" so I'm going to just run it for a while as is. On the 54's thats another story, as a few have come with .050+ squish and I have put them on the lathe to get them in the mid .020's . BIG difference BTW definitely worth doing along with a clean up & adjusting of the ports. An obvious difference. The good news is unlike the Husqvarna's, you can take a LOT off the base w/o making it too thin. I really try to get the blow down numbers in the 18-19 degree range as now the floor of the transfers drop well below the piston crown at TDC. A low blow down (higher transfer) seems to help offset that along with a steeper angle on the top of those transfers. And also I've kept the exhaust in the 99-100 degrees ATDC even after dropping the cylinder & have the blow down in the 18-19 range. Seems to work pretty well. BUT there are folks here who can give far better advice & better numbers I'm sure, all I can do is report what I've done to this point in time. Also while Brad or Randy do that stuff on a regular basis, its a bit of a PITA for me to go that far & I always question my work, especially when the 56mm's slightly tweaked run as strong as they do. Another "opinion" is I don't like cutting the Huztl squish bands with the plating "spots" with my boring bar. So worked around that either by just shooting for a good squish number to the existing squish band and one I tried a popup. Haven't finished putting that last cylinder on anything yet, have a "Cross" top end that "bumped" it. But plan to have a "timed" comparison of the Cross as delivered vs. a cleaned up 54mm Farmertec vs. a cleaned up 56mm Hyway Top End when I get the time. Have two of the three "comparison" saws built, the Cross MMWS 54mm and HTSS tweaked Hyway 56mm.



I had to reread. Looks like more was add since I last read it last night. Good info


----------



## weimedog

Funny thing shows up in that video I had just posted a couple back....the people factor. Three of those guys run 80-90cc's saws so thats what THEY know how to run, One a 60cc saw. Took BOTH groups a bit of time to figure out the others world....the 60cc guy wouldn't push the 90 and the 90cc guys just instantly stalled the chain on the 60's. THAT was what made that day really interesting to me, watching them adapt. And the one fella has a logging/firewood business and you can tell which one as he figures them out PDQ. The others"fall time" (The season) firewood guys.


----------



## blsnelling

davhul said:


> I didn't mind it being on the fat side that was the first real run and at 12,300. For the 2 cuts I did at low 13's I could tell it woke up. I'll find the high end of the tune once I run some gas through it. The other 2 saws I stopped the tune around 12.8-13 because that's all they wanted. I suspect I may leave this one in mid 13's and still sound safe.


IMHO, that's a perfect work tune. Sounds great.


----------



## weimedog

Cylinders that are in the "system" and will show up on the channel over time:


----------



## Chris3558

Just wanted to show my two saws finished. Its been a fun learning experience for sure. Thanks for everyone's help, videos and input. One of the saws has a test chain on it with no cutters just for testing. Both run good, idle and hot start in one pull. Next is to try them in some wood.


----------



## chopperopper

On the flywheel side, looks like there's a bit too much paint and it interferes with the crank counterbalance. I'll have to sand it out a bit. Bummer.


----------



## Bedford T

Have you got that centered?


----------



## HoosierS

davhul said:


> Did you get a chance to give her a spin?


I got it fired up, had to replace the chain brake link with oem. It was idling high and die after a minute or two. It runs like a banshee with the throttle down. Hooked a tach up but its a bit tricky trying to tune it. Been busy past few days and pulling a 48 hour shift till Monday, then back to work Tuesday so its looking like I won't get to fiddle with it till Wednesday. This may be a dumb question, but does the B&C need to be on to tune the carb?


----------



## davhul

Yes B&C. I ran it little today at 12,5 and 13. Since it's not going to be mine I'm staying 12,5-12,8 like the others to be on the safe side. He may run a dull chain one day or something else so I like the Insurance. Here's the plug at 12,3-12,5 yesterday so a few hundred extra rpm would still be ok. The vid is uploading from today.


----------



## chopperopper

Bedford T said:


> Have you got that centered?


Yeah, it's centered at .02" gap on each side of the case but the crank can barely turn.


----------



## Bedford T

Someone else had that happen on one. That's the only other time I heard about it. He took a little off the crank beIl i think. He may be by and say something soon.


----------



## chopperopper

Bedford T said:


> Someone else had that happen on one. That's the only other time I heard about it. He took a little off the crank beIl i think. He may be by and say something soon.


Ok. I'm at the point where i need to modify the bell. I was worried that modifying the bell would cause an imbalance. Good to know it's been done before. I must have missed that post. Thanks!


----------



## Racr350

davhul said:


> Yes B&C. I ran it little today at 12,5 and 13. Since it's not going to be mine I'm staying 12,5-12,8 like the others to be on the safe side. He may run a dull chain one day or something else so I like the Insurance. Here's the plug at 12,3-12,5 yesterday so a few hundred extra rpm would still be ok. The vid is uploading from today.



Nice & Tan...just how I like my women


----------



## davhul

Here's a couple runs at 13 grand even. It's holds rpm good in the cut but I really like the extra torque at the lower tune. And I liked the plug from yesterday. I didn't check it today.


----------



## Racr350

Man that runs strong. Love how high it will hold the revs in cut. Solid build!


----------



## grizz55chev

HoosierS said:


> I got it fired up, had to replace the chain brake link with oem. It was idling high and die after a minute or two. It runs like a banshee with the throttle down. Hooked a tach up but its a bit tricky trying to tune it. Been busy past few days and pulling a 48 hour shift till Monday, then back to work Tuesday so its looking like I won't get to fiddle with it till Wednesday. This may be a dumb question, but does the B&C need to be on to tune the carb?


Yep!


----------



## Johnnybar

chopperopper said:


> Ok. I'm at the point where i need to modify the bell. I was worried that modifying the bell would cause an imbalance. Good to know it's been done before. I must have missed that post. Thanks!


Have to wonder if the crank is over spec on width at the counterbalances or if they re-milled one of the case halves to eliminate a defect.


----------



## grizz55chev

Johnnybar said:


> Have to wonder if the crank is over spec on width at the counterbalances or if they re-milled one of the case halves to eliminate a defect.


Probably not centered, a hard knock on the crank end with a brass hammer, problem solved.


----------



## davhul

He claimed .020 on each side. I want to say mine was around mid .035 centered


----------



## grizz55chev

davhul said:


> He claimed .020 on each side. I want to say mine was around mid .035 centered


If it rubbed on one side, knock it a little till it doesn't as long as you have clearance on both sides and the crank spins free all is well.


----------



## davhul

That may work I would try it.


----------



## Johnnybar

grizz55chev said:


> Probably not centered, a hard knock on the crank end with a brass hammer, problem solved.


Hard to say from the online view but, it looked very tight and he stated .020" both sides so, something is awry from the specs others have posted.


----------



## davhul

I don't see but 2 pics of the same side


----------



## Johnnybar

davhul said:


> I don't see but 2 pics of the same side[/QUOTE
> Yep, I remembered it was tight both sides and forgot that was from his written note on clearance and not the pics. Comment was being revised while you made your observation davhul.


----------



## chopperopper

Oh, I was measuring the gap at the outer bearing race. I couldn't center the crank in the case because the PTO bearing was a bit proud of the inside case wall. Now I'm wondering if I needed to adjust the bearing instead. Well, I already filed the crank a bit to get it to spin.


----------



## davhul

It looks like you have plenty of room on the left side for it to go.


----------



## blsnelling

I've never worried about actual centering. I always just made sure it spun freely before installing seals. I could be wrong though.


----------



## davhul

The rod floats back and forth on the crank so it's probably not that critical.


----------



## grizz55chev

blsnelling said:


> I've never worried about actual centering. I always just made sure it spun freely before installing bearings. I could be wrong though.


Did you mean seals?


----------



## blsnelling

grizz55chev said:


> Did you mean seals?


Lol. Yes!


----------



## grizz55chev

blsnelling said:


> Lol. Yes!


Can't slip nothing by, lol!


----------



## Dieseldash

Well I just joined the MS660 club last month. Looks like everyone was having so much fun with these I just had to pull the trigger on a kit. Placed my order the beginning of December and it showed up crazy fast, less than 10 days. It was a fun indoor winter project putting it together. The big Huskies from this period are easier to work on but it was fun learning a new saw "puzzle". I took my time and tried to be fairly precise ( former aircraft mechanic so I like to do things right). As many people who have received the newest kits there were some clearance issues with the chain break handle, muffler, and internal stop by the clutch. I did some file work to clearance these parts. On closer examination I noticed the top edge of the muffler seemed like it could be bent down with a few taps of a hammer and issue is fixed. I didn't notice anyone mention but my kit was shipped with a dual port muffler set up just like the Stihl dual port. Maybe the old single port would fit better. The muffler baffles got a couple 7/16 holes to flow better and I left the dual port cover as shipped. It sounds pretty dang mean. Rest of the parts looked like fairly good copies no real issues. I just slightly cleaned up the cylinder ports. Assembled with out the base gasket squish right around .023". Using the Hutzl chain adjuster and the new case haves seemed fairly tight where the parts insert. No room for any bushing material. I loaded the gears with white lithium grease and worked them back and forth a couple dozen times and it works good enough for the girls I run around with.

Anyway these 660's can sure cut some wood. I fitted it with a little 20" bar for now and a 8 pin sprocket. Cuts thru frozen green ponderosa pine like butter. But boy it's a workout lugging this beast around at 9,000'. My 72cc husky feels like a toy after running the 660. For most everything I cut a 70cc class saw is plenty but I've got a project latter this year cutting up a huge dead cottonwood and this 660 is gonna make easy work of it. Hope you all enjoy the pics:


----------



## Racr350

davhul said:


> He claimed .020 on each side. I want to say mine was around mid .035 centered


Yup mine was .037" centered.



Dieseldash said:


> Well I just joined the MS660 club last month. Looks like everyone was having so much fun with these I just had to pull the trigger on a kit. Placed my order the beginning of December and it showed up crazy fast, less than 10 days. It was a fun indoor winter project putting it together. The big Huskies from this period are easier to work on but it was fun learning a new saw "puzzle". I took my time and tried to be fairly precise ( former aircraft mechanic so I like to do things right). As many people who have received the newest kits there were some clearance issues with the chain break handle, muffler, and internal stop by the clutch. I did some file work to clearance these parts. On closer examination I noticed the top edge of the muffler seemed like it could be bent down with a few taps of a hammer and issue is fixed. I didn't notice anyone mention but my kit was shipped with a dual port muffler set up just like the Stihl dual port. Maybe the old single port would fit better. The muffler baffles got a couple 7/16 holes to flow better and I left the dual port cover as shipped. It sounds pretty dang mean. Rest of the parts looked like fairly good copies no real issues. I just slightly cleaned up the cylinder ports. Assebeled with out the base gasket squish right around .023". Using the Hutzl chain adjuster and the new case haves seemed fairly tight where the parts insert. No room for any bushing material. I loaded the gears with white lithium grease and worked them back and forth a couple dozen times and it works good enough for the girls I run around with.
> 
> Anyway these 660's can sure cut some wood. I fitted it with a little 20" bar for now and a 8 pin sprocket. Cuts thru frozen green ponderosa pine like butter. But boy it's a workout lugging this beast around at 9,000'. My 72cc husky feels like a toy after running the 660. For most everything I cut a 70cc class saw is plenty but I've got a project latter this year cutting up a huge dead cottonwood and this 660 is gonna make easy work of it. Hope you all enjoy the pics:
> 
> View attachment 554829
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 554830
> 
> 
> View attachment 554831



Lookin good! Got the same muffler, but I completely gutted it. Looks like it had no trouble with that Pine. You must be out West with those kinds of elevation. Jealous of the snow it looks like youve got. My poor sleds havent even moved this year


----------



## davhul

I gutted it also


----------



## Johnnybar

Diesel', Husky claims the 372 weighs about 14.3 PHO. Stihl claims 16.3 for the MS660 PHO. Seems a fair trade off if you like the extra 20 cc's


----------



## frag-88

The tale of how the cold in the Russian forest workaholic farmertec/ huztl ms660

Just today made muffler mod 372. Thanks weimedog for the tip with brass solder. He solder amazing!
We catch 660)))


----------



## davhul

Excellent real world test. Keep us up to date on how it does. [emoji106]great work


----------



## davhul

Frag88 how do you like the factory clutch springs over AM? Didn't you break the AM last week


----------



## frag-88

davhul said:


> Frag88 how do you like the factory clutch springs over AM? Didn't you break the AM last week


The guy who runs the saw, just changed the springs and saw more work. don't know, maybe he's a little tuned carb


----------



## Racr350

frag-88 said:


> The guy who runs the saw, just changed the springs and saw more work. don't know, maybe he's a little tuned carb



Thats quite an operation. That tracked skidder reminds me a lot of the groomers they use on the snowmobile trails here in the U.S. Pretty cool to see one of these saws doing real time work.


----------



## frag-88

Racr350 said:


> Thats quite an operation. That tracked skidder reminds me a lot of the groomers they use on the snowmobile trails here in the U.S. Pretty cool to see one of these saws doing real time work.


the design of these tractors virtually unchanged for 50 years... 
this technique is simple, reliable and repaired "on the stump" in the woods...


----------



## Mattyo

I'm gonna post this here, because I think its relevant. I've only read 28 pages so far, and it seems like people were struggling with the case halves. 

Pop the seals out peoples... put the crank in like this  




No press needed. You can DIY the crank tool that helps you pull the crank through the bearings. 

I know Walt has a lot of vids on this 660 saw, but I can do a bolt for bolt vid.... just have to convince a few guys to pitch in $$ for it. I'll build it up, and then give it away to a deserving member.


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## Johnnybar

Used this method for decades by stacking washers and sockets as needed on saws and anything that has internal or external threads on the end of the shaft. A little oil or HP grease never hurts either especially when aluminum or mag is involved.


----------



## Mattyo

I wanted something that was cheap and easily accessible to even hobbiests. This particular issue is not easily solved....but with a little elbow grease I have a new tool!. Now gotta start making these double ended....pto on one side....flywheel on the other.


----------



## Johnnybar

Mattyo said:


> I wanted something that was cheap and easily accessible to even hobbiests. This particular issue is not easily solved....but with a little elbow grease I have a new tool!. Now gotta start making these double ended....pto on one side....flywheel on the other.


I've used the shaft threads only too. Just have to be careful to catch a few threads before it starts pressing...easy enough to adjust with washers. I horseshoed some washers so the nut did not have to be removed to increase the pull. If you are going to make them for sale, I would suggest fine threads as they increase the pull force with the same wrench pressure.


----------



## Mattyo

Finer threads would be nice...but this is what is easily available at home improvement stores.

Not planning on selling it...everyone is welcome to copy my design


----------



## Al J.

Hello everyone, 
New member here and first post. I have been following this thread and have decided to order a 660 kit. I will share information as I receive, review, and assemble the kit. This is NOT a main saw for me, I have others. I teach shop at a local high school, so tweaking and problem solving is a normal process for me. I have a great dealer base around me as well in case I need/wish to use OEM parts. Al


----------



## Mattyo

Welcome Al

I just ordered a 660 kit myself. With a pile of extra goodies. I really think is makes more sense to order other parts in addition to the kit... makes the shipping charge more worthwhile. I typically don't do stihl stuff, but since this kit is so popular, I'm going to do a bolt for bolt video on how to put it together. Likely gonna be another boring one, but hopefully it'll be complete.


----------



## HoosierS

Has anyone else had a problem with the pull rope getting chewed up? I'm gonna pick some more cord up tomorrow. I suspect the bushing is flawed or has a bur. Mine ran like a boss for a bit after I finally got the carb tuned, cut hardwood like butter. But I stuck it in a smaller log and the saw threw said log at me, and I pulled it up real quick and killed it. Haven't been able to restart it because the rope is so chewed up it's binding up every other pull.


----------



## davhul

I never tried their rope. The elaso rope I used has frayed very little. More than normal but not much.


----------



## Mattyo

Just for completeness sake....if anyone is going to try pulling the crank through the bearing like I showed in my vid...the flywheel nut on a 660 is m10x1.0... I think. This is an odd odd odd size and doesn't come in a normal tap and die set. But but but....my set has a 1/8" npt tap that will work!


----------



## Stihlofadeal64

weimedog said:


> Cylinders that are in the "system" and will show up on the channel over time:
> View attachment 554410




Looking forward to seeing the Cross Performance on the TUBE. If I decide to build one of these I believe that may be the combination I choose for the cylinder.


----------



## Mattyo

Here's an 1/8" npt tap working for m10x1 on a 394 ... should be same on a ms660 ....


----------



## Johnnybar

Mattyo said:


> Here's an 1/8" npt tap working for m10x1 on a 394 ... should be same on a ms660 ....



Should be ok for a few threads to engage since they are 1.06 mm pitch with a little slop built in for manufacturing tolerance.


----------



## Mattyo

yeah, it seems to go in just fine, would nice to run that tap in a little further... final drill size was 11/32" ...but I think it could have been 23/64" to make tapping a tad easier. I ruined my tap holder...now I gotta make new of that....


----------



## Mattyo

anyone know the pto side ms660 clutch thread pitch and size?


----------



## Johnnybar

Mattyo said:


> anyone know the pto side ms660 clutch thread pitch and size?


A set of calipers should get you there. The OD of the threads may be slightly undersized...you might measure 9.9 mm for a 10mm thread. You can then measure 4-5 threads and divide for the pitch.


----------



## Ozhoo

Mattyo said:


> anyone know the pto side ms660 clutch thread pitch and size?



M12 x 1.25 if I'm seeing straight


----------



## Mattyo

I don't have a crank yet...was hoping to order the tap ahead of it getting here. I have m12x1.25 on order already...same size as 394xp. If Oz isn't seeing straight would someone else please tell me lol


----------



## davhul

Left handed. I don't have any left taps and dies.


----------



## Ozhoo

I put the booze down... it's M12 x 1.25


----------



## Mattyo

since I already have that tap and die comin... i'm good... thanks!

I've made the flywheel side crank puller tools, now I'll be able to make the clutch side ... no heat will be needed to put the case halves together!


----------



## Stihlofadeal64

Mattyo said:


> I don't have a crank yet...was hoping to order the tap ahead of it getting here. I have m12x1.25 on order already...same size as 394xp. If Oz isn't seeing straight would someone else please tell me lol



The clutch side will be left hand threads (right?). Checking on that.


----------



## Johnnybar

Stihlofadeal64 said:


> The clutch side will be left hand threads (right?). Checking on that.


yep self tightening that way.


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## Mattyo

yes, I DID get left handed taps...


----------



## cvx1170

Homemade id on my huztl
Initial month year 
[emoji1]


----------



## Al J.

FYI I was on the Huztl site today and there was a notice that anything ordered Jan 20th-Feb 6th, will be processed Feb 7th.


----------



## Johnnybar

Al J. said:


> FYI I was on the Huztl site today and there was a notice that anything ordered Jan 20th-Feb 6th, will be processed Feb 7th.


It's their country's New Years...a really big shindig over there.


----------



## cvx1170

If did order 1week ago and I received info today about my order (Husqvarna kit [emoji1] [emoji1])


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## Johnnybar

cvx1170 said:


> If did order 1week ago and I received info today about my order (Husqvarna kit [emoji1] [emoji1])


Yes that makes sense you got info today. They are 14 hours ahead of central time in the USA and today is the first day back to work after the Chinese New Year holiday.


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## cvx1170

Yes correct but I am European Central time GMT +1 down here, so they replied early morning my time meaning around noon over there. 

Envoyé de mon SM-G361F en utilisant Tapatalk


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## Johnnybar

cvx1170 said:


> Yes correct but I am European Central time GMT +1 down here, so they replied early morning my time meaning around noon over there.
> 
> Envoyé de mon SM-G361F en utilisant Tapatalk


Hope your winter is going as mild as our's here in Oklahoma, USA. 21C/70F right now when we normally would be having snow and ice storms most years.


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## cvx1170

Johnnybar said:


> Hope your winter is going as mild as our's here in Oklahoma, USA. 21C/70F right now when we normally would be having snow and ice storms most years.


We have around 7-10 Celsius last week. And forecast is down to -5 to - 7C for the coming week end. The beginning of our winter has been dry and high temperature and now more wet and some periodic frozen period. Normally this is last freezing week we will have, in March temp is going up and farmers starts their seeding season for sugar beets corn and others. 

Pierre


----------



## Al J.

I checked with Huztl today about my order. Their response was that they were out of of stock on clutches, drums, and mufflers for the 660. They told me it would be 3 days and then it would be shipped. Just an FYI.


----------



## Chris3558

I wanted to place another saw order, so I asked about the back-order on mufflers, clutches and drums. This is the reply.

*Sent:* Friday, February 10, 2017 3:51 AM
*Subject:* Re: Re: Order 12251

Dear sir,
Thanks for your message.
Yes, we are not available for these parts now, and not sure when we will have, but we will have within the short time.
Sincerely hope you could understand.
Best regards,
Lynn


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## Al J.

Interesting. My 3 day wait reply was sent on the 7th. I will give them another couple days and see if it ships. I might also just request that they ship the kit without those items and see if they can compensate me somehow.


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## Conquistador3

Al J. said:


> Interesting. My 3 day wait reply was sent on the 7th. I will give them another couple days and see if it ships. I might also just request that they ship the kit without those items and see if they can compensate me somehow.



I've ordered some parts on the 6th. They were shipped the next day and will be here... who knows what. Both mail and private carriers have become extremely slow lately.


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## Jimbo209

Johnnybar said:


> Hope your winter is going as mild as our's here in Oklahoma, USA. 21C/70F right now when we normally would be having snow and ice storms most years.


Yep crazy all over it seems. Down Under in Perth WA we are having cyclone induced winter weather in the middle of summer, well under 20°c instead of I up above 35-40°c

Sent from my SM-T320 using Tapatalk


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## cvx1170

Al J. said:


> Interesting. My 3 day wait reply was sent on the 7th. I will give them another couple days and see if it ships. I might also just request that they ship the kit without those items and see if they can compensate me somehow.


Same here no news of my Husqvarna kit order and also complaint about some issues with 660.
I guess they are Overbooked. 
Just wait and see when they can decrease backlog, hope not too much issues with the shipping because sure all warehouse are full of parcels everywhere 

Pierre


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## Stihlofadeal64

Makes me wonder if I need to just wait before I try to order a MS660 kit


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## Mattyo

I got emails from them last night


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## cvx1170

Stihlofadeal64 said:


> Makes me wonder if I need to just wait before I try to order a MS660 kit


Personnal advice just wait backlog is over. That means couple of days 
No news of my oder that Is not a small one 

Pierre


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## Mattyo

The email I got last night indicated that my order was delayed due to not having 395xp av mounts in stock...not because there is a 660 backlog.


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## cvx1170

Double wrap handle bar for the 460 is also in back order. 
No luck I was looking to place one on my 460 that's something really you nearly never see on a saw here in Europe. 
Wil see next order


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## Johnnybar

I'll be posting a new thread but thought I would mention here that I joined the Huztl MS660 club today. Order is officially placed! Oh and Huztl has Holzfforma 36" chainsaw mills on sale for $57.41 + s for the next 20 hrs or day +20 hrs. It states "1 DAY 20:09:32" as of now.


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## cvx1170

I've just received an update on my Husqvarna kits it has been shipped with my other articles.

They propose me 10 box for chain brake issue and costemitic damage on 660 crankcase. They said chain break engineering never receive those feedback since thousands of kits sold [emoji1] [emoji1] 

Nice try from them


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## Johnnybar

cvx1170 said:


> I've just received an update on my Husqvarna kits it has been shipped with my other articles.
> 
> They propose me 10 box for chain brake issue and costemitic damage on 660 crankcase. They said chain break engineering never receive those feedback since thousands of kits sold [emoji1] [emoji1]
> 
> Nice try from them


Good to here they are moving orders. Not sure what you mean by "propose me 10 box".


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## Johnnybar

Oh maybe "10 bucks"


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## Al J.

They sent me a message this morning stating that my order was shipped. Looks like everyone was in the same boat. I have a tracking number, but it comes up still pending.


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## Chris3558

Al J. said:


> They sent me a message this morning stating that my order was shipped. Looks like everyone was in the same boat. I have a tracking number, but it comes up still pending.


I just received a email stating they now have mufflers, clutches and drums. Also, within the last week, the Huztl.net MS660 parts pages went from like 69 parts to 117. Hopefully, they improve their packaging .


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## Wood Chopper

I've been sucked in to the dark side. Weimedog started it on YouTube and then this thread. I can't pay attention and read a book to save my life but I can sit down and read almost 100 pages of this thread in a few hours. Lol

Gonna order now that parts are back in. 


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## Wood Chopper

I am more than likely going to order the big bore kit with my order as an option besides possibly grinding away a little bit at the inside of the cylinder gasket so the 56mm fits did someone say they had to modify the piston skirt for clearance issues?


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## Waltsuz

I hope this was not explained in the last 100 pages if so I apologize for not yet wading through it all till I start. I am wanting to do a 660 build up and I thought Id ask if anyone has done a side by side of a new OEM 661 with the 660 clone. Are they close to performing the same? Thanks Walt


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## davhul

With no work to the cylinder other than cleaning the port chamfers mine had slightly less grunt than my 064. With a little port work to the cylinder and piston it was on par with the 64 but not as smooth running. This was one of the last video's I did noodling with a little porting to the cylinder and piston. Running a 25"


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## Wood Chopper

That's pretty impressive right there


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## davhul

It's ok. That's only a 25". I need to put a 36 on it Friday when I test the oe clutch springs. If I have time I want to run it with my 460 with a 25


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## davhul

I plan on keeping one 54mm for next fall cutting. Hoping for some real power


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## Waltsuz

My felling saw is a 461R. I have a 28 inch bar on it that I'd like to put on a 660 farmtec. Your video looks impressive I' must agree with Wood Chopper. These look like a fun project and I'd like to end up with a saw with more balls than my 461. Thanks


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## Mattyo

HMMM:


*HUZTL TEAM 2017-02-15 07:10:59*
Dear Sir,
Thanks for your kindness and understanding.
Sorry, we cannot check the shipping infromation for you now, because our order processing system met some problems. 
Our network technicians are repairing it. It may take a few days.
Once it is OK, we will handle your order immediately.
Hope you could understand. Thanks for your understanding.

Best regards,
Evie


----------



## Wood Chopper

I ordered mine last night. Hope it went through. [emoji52]


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## davhul

The 5 months I've followed this everyone has got their kit. Sometimes slow but that was due to parts out of stock or a holiday.


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## Mattyo

not worried about getting my kit... my order was Feb 3rd though...


----------



## davhul

I bet they had a back log from their new year. Took 2 weeks for my first to arrive


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## Mattyo

nearly 2 weeks and they haven't even shipped mine yet....


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## davhul

Mine didn't update and said it was still in China when I checked. Then all of a sudden it was in NY customs and I got it 3 days later


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## Al J.

I received tracking information Sunday night and have been tracking the package. As previously stated in the thread, use https://www.aftership.com/courier/sf-express for tracking information. Mine states it is currently in transit to New York City from overseas. I am in PA so I guess it shouldn't be more than a few days once it reaches the states.


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## Mattyo

when did you place your order Al?


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## Al J.

The same day as you.


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## Stihlofadeal64

davhul said:


> With no work to the cylinder other than cleaning the port chamfers mine had slightly less grunt than my 064. With a little port work to the cylinder and piston it was on par with the 64 but not as smooth running. This was one of the last video's I did noodling with a little porting to the cylinder and piston. Running a 25"



Not bad sir. So you cleaned up the port chamfers and slicked up the transfers. Actually this saw runs pretty well in the video. Is it wearing a dual port for the muffler? (It is just a little rich at 13,000 but not bad). I like what I see.


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## davhul

I tapered the lower transfer also because it's a sharp drop from the base. Then opened the piston windows. No base gasket and Gasket matched the exhaust port and muffler. Also the muffler baffle is removed.




timing was bumped 8° and a high output oil pump control bolt was installed. It is a little fat at 13 but the guy I'm giving it to after my tests is running a 36" bar on it. That was the second tank of fuel.


----------



## Stihlofadeal64

davhul said:


> I tapered the lower transfer also because it's a sharp drop from the base. Then opened the piston windows. No base gasket and Gasket matched the exhaust port and muffler. Also the muffler baffle is removed.
> 
> 
> 
> timing was bumped 8° and a high output oil pump control bolt was installed. It is a little fat at 13 but the guy I'm giving it to after my tests is running a 36" bar on it. That was the second tank of fuel.



Love it! Great information!


----------



## Wood Chopper

Mattyo Where did you buy your left handed tap and die for clutch side?


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## Wood Chopper

Mine as well make the install tool while I'm waiting for kit. I'm pretty sure I have the m10x 1 for flywheel side


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## davhul

There's good info back at the beginning of the thread. Most people used a little heat and pushed the case to the pins by hand and light tapping then use the case screws going round and around to pull it together. It's pretty easy


----------



## Mattyo

http://www.ebay.com/itm/151933924911?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

they have m14 and m12 left hand taps available. haven't gotten them yet



though it is possible to assemble these cases many ways, ... press... case screws...heat / cool etc. ......... using CHEAP, easily made custom tooling to put these cases together with ZERO lateral force on the bearings makes most sense to me. I know the husqvarna shop tools do this, but they are expensive. my vids have shown these can be made for VERY inexpensive... so why not? putting lateral forces on bearings gives me the willies.... no matter how small the force, dynamic or static...still worries me. 

i will be doing bolt for bolt vids on the 660 and the 372 clones and will be using the custom tooling which I will explain in detail again ... AND possible do it the other way too to describe the differences ... just still waiting for my 660 here


----------



## Wood Chopper

Thanks davhul. Yes I've had good luck with other cranks using heat and a cold crank out of the freezer. I've got a buddy with a lathe to bore out the rod nice and straight then tap it. I know I don't really need it but I just feel like making it for some reason. Lol[emoji851]


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## Mattyo

i have access to a lathe, i don't think i even need it. and it makes complete sense to have these tools if ya do even one saw. 

the issue with the heat cold stuff is that it is exceptionally time sensitive ... AND i worry that the sealants used between the case halves may not set well at high or low temps. the whole thing has to go super smooth in order for that to work right. i've had to pull things together with case bolts plenty... i think there is a better way 

i bought both the m12 and m14 taps. that covers quite a few larger clutches, both husky and stihl. i'm sure there are others, but no harm in having taps. they aren't that expensive, and obviously can last a long time.


----------



## Wood Chopper

Thanks mattyo 


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## blsnelling

davhul said:


> There's good info back at the beginning of the thread. Most people used a little heat and pushed the case to the pins by hand and light tapping then use the case screws going round and around to pull it together. It's pretty easy


I have never had to do anything else.


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## Mattyo

just got the taps.... prepare to have your minds blown


----------



## Wood Chopper

Mattyo said:


> just got the taps.... prepare to have your minds blown



Lol. Nice. [emoji23]


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## Stihlofadeal64

Mattyo said:


> just got the taps.... prepare to have your minds blown



I know these can be made without the aid of a lathe -- and the illustration was to show us that it can be done for the average joe. I appreciate the illustration.
If I had access to a lathe, I would certainly want to make a set that were precision enough to keep for a lifetime. Would you be interested in making a set for
me? 
I would be using these on Stihl saws -- 026, 044, MS460, MS660 etc.


----------



## Mattyo

I wasn't planning on going into production, but it has already been suggested to me by another member that i may be able to produce these. we shall see. 

i haven't gotten a chance to play with the new taps yet... but I can't imagine it not working. 

what are the threads on the cranks of the 026 044 and 460 etc? 

-Matt


----------



## weimedog

Husqvarna sells crank pullers for most of their models, I have all of them. Wonder if any would work on the Stihl's? Wonder if any of the threads are the same? Thought about making a few modeled after the Husqvarna pullers which are really handy...and cheap. Like $20 bucks. But......why. The press works find and I have it. AND that technic works with any brand saw regardless of threads, crank length... BUT I have to admit I use those Husqvarna pullers where they work. Partly because they fit to the inner race of the bearings when pulling the crank through. Theoretically less stressful on the bearings and cases. I've never had or seen an issue with heat & press. Dilemma for some....not for me. If I don't have a puller I go back to the press. Never not with a solution. $100 to $150 gets one of the most versatile tools for the shop....mine was purchased in the early 1980's when i was rebuilding Mercury Outboards for a hobby & to fund the boating habbit. having a dedicated puller for the 660's might increase the quality of life .... maybe. Still would have to yank the seal. Stihl's seal driver tool was about 40 bucks....worth every penny.


----------



## Mattyo

Without question I need a shop press. But I don't have a shop lol. I have a basement room that I work in. 

I think at least some of the thread sizes overlap, supposedly the 660 does ... we shall see about the others. 

Walt, do you have a pic of that stihl seal tool? this is the driver, not the remover right? I've seen you use it on the vids, but it'd be nice to have a clear pic of the business end of it. When I get the 660 i'll be able to see for myself whats what. 

Original order date was 2/3 ... I modded the order 2/11 and have been told the order was "merged" Still no ship date. Pretty sure their definition of "merged" and my definition are different.


----------



## weimedog

Think I will look at possible cross-use with the Husqvarna pullers, especially on the 036. The thing has 6202's like a 372 so the diameters are right. Just have to check the threads. What makes a "puller" concept interesting is they put all the pressure therefore stress in the the inside race of the bearings & not the "balls" and certainly not that relatively weak case. SO while I've never had a case fail pressing bearings or cranks through bearings..I guess its theoretically possible.... Also dropping the bearings on the crank then warming the cases to around 230 degrees ... often you dont need ANYTHING except gloves and coordination to get those case halves together, screws in, and a cordless drill with a bit to run those case screws home to pull the halves together. Kwikly!! (Did a video once doing this using a WOOD STOVE for its crude visual impact ) A technic I've used when replacing bearings as you see on the crank where the bearings were... Bottom line? Many ways to skin a cat. BUT pullers are cool. And the safest way in my mind...why I have so many.

The "official" seal drivers, like the Husqvarna & Stihl shop tools look like upside down top hats (Mine are just turned out of bar stock), what makes them work is the inside diameter (PTO side) is a slip fit over the crank. Also on the Husqvarna ones (like the one I turned in that video making one for a 372's and 390's) they have a "step" to seat the seal at the proper depth, if its not supposed to be flush. Be a real easy lathe task for you. I built a set for the Husqvarna's and now the Stilhs where I don't have the "official" Stihl shop tool version. As I do these things anymore I just make the tools real time...the drawer is getting heavy. A driver even works if the crank has that sharp edge, of course I break the edge anyway, but by supporting the "seal" section it goes in anyway.




Just a thought...we touched on it on the "other" place. What about modifying one of these....move that bottom "support/guide" up on the "A" to get more room and make this a bench top press. Actually taking one of these and modifying it would be a useful video as it does end up with a tool very useful to the saw hobbyist and puts it in a foot print that might fit on a desk or bench....come up with a "saw work bench" concept.... Useful when all else fails or you don't have time to build a special tool....

http://www.harborfreight.com/6-ton-a-frame-bench-shop-press-1666.html


----------



## Mattyo

I'm not opposed to having a press ... far from it. and I'm sure i'd probably pick up something like that eventually.


----------



## davhul

I like using the screws if I'm not using the oem tool. I can give them a couple turns each and can feel if it's binding. I don't think I could tell on a press.


----------



## Mattyo

and that benchtop press I'm sure i'd mod a bit, add a few piece of angle to the bottom of it just to give it more extension...

but again, if I can make these tools this easily, and for sure not have a problem.... why go to the press?


----------



## Guru LLC

I have the Stihl crank pulling tools, and some of the Husqvarna tools. I use them mostly when replacing a case half, or a bearing. But when assembling a saw from the crank up, I normally just use heat.


----------



## weimedog

I remember a few years back doing a "heat" focused video with a wood stove as the heat source...and it was single digits out side in the garage to further increase the heat differential....did it for "farmer Jones fun".. worked just fine. Tried to have as many crude 2x4 blocks and the like to help the effect & atmosphere in the video..LOL


----------



## weimedog

Understand this was more than a little about the "show".....but the concept works.... No press. No pullers.....2x4's, sockets. a hammer, nature's freezer and a wood stove! Done BEFORE I wore "cheeter glasses" too... that saw bounced around a while on the farm, then as a "loaner" saw to customers when I was working on theirs and they needed one (all loggers), then one of those guys just....wanted that goofy saw! So I sold it, and it still is out there making money...and all this started because I was thinking I was going to have a video hand grenade....LOL that saw got the last laugh I think.




Breaking that saw in doing typical work...when the realization began to grow that this was a legitimate saw.. changed my entire perspective on these things. I honestly didn't know if those parts would last an afternoon....so was going to document its glory & demise. Its still going, that camera is long since dead..(A bloggie)

(All "tapped" Hard maple, cut placement was a lot about missing taps.. )


----------



## Mattyo

To Walt and MM, believe me, you guys have WAY more exp than me doing this, and if you say you've never had a problem with lateral forces on bearings, I totally believe you. AND yes, I've seen the vids on the hutzl saw workin and becoming a legit saw... which is cool in and of itself. I love different ways to do things, I've just gotten annoyed a bit lately with the heat and cold etc etc of putting these things together. and now that i've found out its so easy to make these tools, why not. 

one other thing that has worried me a bit, is when I do the final case assembly is that I have sealer on the case/gasket... heat cold differentials, getting it all seated and sealed all at the same time is a bit unnerving. hopefully now I can do it at room temp and in a very controlled way. 

I JUST tapped m14 and m12 tools for clutch sides .... and yes, they work. vid is coming later today probably. once the 660 gets here I may demo both the tools and the heat/cold thing... we shall see. I think the fastest way to do it will be to heat the inner race on the PTO side, drop the cold crank in. let everything come to room temp, apply sealer/gasket and then use my puller to pull the flywheel side through ... done. ...hopefully. lol

Walt, I'll trade you a m12/m14 double ender puller for a seal seater set  (have to make another one for ya lol)


----------



## weimedog

davhul said:


> I like using the screws if I'm not using the oem tool. I can give them a couple turns each and can feel if it's binding. I don't think I could tell on a press.


You can, but pullers are better. Nothing is idiot proof though. A press will flex the cases less than the screws BTW if the temps are a little cold. Rarely ever have to tap a crank after using a puller or a press. Often times do if the case screws do the deed, especially if things chill. But you know? Can argue the merits until the earths crust cools. They all work well and have for decades. No new ground here. Really just boils down to what tools do you have and which have you learned to be the most comfortable with. Pullers are the best approach for me. Others will pick different tactics and learn to make them work. Matt's pullers are cool not because "Pullers" are a new concept, but because he's building his own special tools...thats cool.


----------



## Mattyo

I'm just having a hard time believing these actually work lol. You are right...no real new ground being broken here..the tools are not innovative with the exception they are a diy item. 

I'm gonna work on the m12 m14 vid now.....


----------



## cvx1170

Here my 2euros crankcase opener, tonight will be try to do bearing installation tool










Envoyé de mon SM-G361F en utilisant Tapatalk


----------



## weimedog

cvx1170 said:


> Here my 2euros crankcase opener, tonight will be try to do bearing installation tool
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Envoyé de mon SM-G361F en utilisant Tapatalk




Those "Metric" sized precision welds? very cool BTW..


----------



## Mattyo

here they are... m12 and m14


----------



## blsnelling

That's a nice, clean, simple tool, but it only takes about 30 seconds to grab the crank web in a vise and tap the bearing on with a deep well socket that fits over the crank. You're tapping on the inner race, so no risk of damage at all.


----------



## Mattyo

Brad, keep in mind, haven't tried this in a saw yet ... well.. I have... sorta. But not for putting case halves together with sealant yet. Its going to happen.... soon  

also, I don't know if I have a deep socket that goes quite that keep.. pretty sure I've looked, and I have quite a few sockets.


----------



## Mattyo

also, assuming you can get both bearings on without damaging them as you describe, you still need to install them in the case halves (which can put lateral forces on the bearings). that involves heating the case halves in some way ... usually...as you are putting everything together with sealant/gasket 

with my tools you can put bearings in the case first, let everything get to room temp, THEN pull the crank through the bearings and case halves together... with sealant, at room temp


----------



## blsnelling

I can see it being real handy for pulling the vase halves together.


----------



## Mattyo

boy I hope so! 

I still don't have a ship date on my package, though... apparently it has been sent to their forwarder, who is having issues


----------



## Guru LLC

Many different ways to skin the cat. None of them are wrong in my opinion.


----------



## Mattyo

I agree there are more than one ways to do something, and though there is vast experience behind many of these different ways, exacting proof that none of them are "wrong" ... I am going to assume that part of the point of this site is to help others strive for "better" if not best. I hope these tools at minimum offer "better for cheap" and I also hope that I can prove it. whether I do or not remains to be seen, and I will leave it to others to judge whether I have indeed achieved "better" or not.


----------



## weimedog

Here's the "Husqvarna" shop puller & heat blended to do bearings & pull the cases together.....actually what I do, 90 percent of the time with Husqvarna's. Will eventually build a puller for the Stihls in the same form I think...until then....heat for the bearings & a press/"warm" heat to assemble crank & cases. ( Brad would kick butt in a case assembly race with the simple tools and bigger hammer approach...and heat  BUT this is one of those nice and low stress approach for the old farts like me who OVER analyses everything )


----------



## Mattyo

Ive actually seen that vid, and its what was more or less the inspiration for the tools. Thanks for sharing that again.


----------



## Al J.

So my kit arrived and and I have unboxed it and got everything organized. Here are some notes. 
- well packaged. Most items were bagged, bubble wrapped, and taped.
- cases have bearings,seals, and pins installed. 
- missing case gasket. I have contacted huztl, but also picked up and oem for $5.
- I will assemble the cases Tuesday when I go back to work and have access to my press. However, I have assembled the chain tensioner and it will work with the parts supplied, no room to shim, so it looks like they tightened up case tolerances. It isn't the smoothest operation. Might go oem. 
-cylinder looks pretty good. It looks as if someone cleaned up the flashing before it got to me. I'll hit it with some fine paper just to touch up but nothing crazy. 
- had to buy a couple nuts for the falling spikes. 

Most of the assembly will happen next week. I will more than likely go without the base gasket if the squish is ok. I do have a couple questions. 
1. Is there anything that goes between the oiler and the crankcase or the does the oiler butt right up to the case. I know where the small grommet goes. 
2. Is there suppose to be a metal chain deflector with the kit? 
Thanks for any input.


----------



## blsnelling

weimedog said:


> Here's the "Husqvarna" shop puller & heat blended to do bearings & pull the cases together.....actually what I do, 90 percent of the time with Husqvarna's. Will eventually build a puller for the Stihls in the same form I think...until then....heat for the bearings & a press/"warm" heat to assemble crank & cases. ( Brad would kick butt in a case assembly race with the simple tools and bigger hammer approach...and heat  BUT this is one of those nice and low stress approach for the old farts like me who OVER analyses everything )



What do those puller kits cost? Can you buy just the PTO side? With the method I use, that's all I would need.


----------



## Mattyo

Brad, i'll make you one .... what saw you want to pull together?

or rather, what thread sizes you need? I can make the double ender m12 and m14 x1.25 LH pretty easy


----------



## weimedog

blsnelling said:


> What do those puller kits cost? Can you buy just the PTO side? With the method I use, that's all I would need.


20 or 30 bucks maybe?


----------



## Wood Chopper

How much for the stihl version? Heard they are way more than 30 bucks lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## blsnelling

Mattyo said:


> Brad, i'll make you one .... what saw you want to pull together?
> 
> or rather, what thread sizes you need? I can make the double ender m12 and m14 x1.25 LH pretty easy


Thank you *very* much for the offer. Last night was the first crankcase I had put together in I don't know how long. It'll probably be that much longer before I do another one.


----------



## blsnelling

weimedog said:


> 20 or 30 bucks maybe?


Can't beat a price like that for OEM tools!


----------



## Mattyo

blsnelling said:


> Thank you *very* much for the offer. Last night was the first crankcase I had put together in I don't know how long. It'll probably be that much longer before I do another one.



You are welcome. now that I have the taps, I can make up stuff pretty easy. the hard part is drilling straight down the center of the threaded rod freehand. one day I'll do up a few on my folk's lathe and make up a few tools i can ship to whoever needs them


----------



## Johnnybar

Mattyo said:


> You are welcome. now that I have the taps, I can make up stuff pretty easy. the hard part is drilling straight down the center of the threaded rod freehand. one day I'll do up a few on my folk's lathe and make up a few tools i can ship to whoever needs them


Guys, Just tack weld an .89 cent nut on the rod....easy peasy.


----------



## Mattyo

....the pto side threads are left hand...

And I was trying to demonstrate that tools can be made without a welder or lathe or mill etc


----------



## Johnnybar

Mattyo said:


> ....the pto side threads are left hand...
> 
> And I was trying to demonstrate that tools can be made without a welder or lathe or mill etc


And a great job you did with basic tools. Left hand nuts are available online relatively cheap so availability isn't an issue and most folks know a buddy that will tack a nut on the end of a rod for free which makes it much cheaper than buying an odd size left hand tap...just a suggestion for thrifty spenders.


----------



## Mattyo

if I was to produce these, it may indeed be easier to use nuts and weld them on... BUT... on a 372, you still need to rebate the inside of the threaded rod because the threaded part of the PTO side is further down on the crank ... (needle bearing, washer and eclip sit further out) ... so the crank has to go into the threaded rod about an inch before the threads can engage. I assume cranks of other species are this way as well as long as there is an inboard clutch....

so I need to drill down into the threaded rod anyway. 

i like my mig a lot btw... but there are a lot of guys buying the 660 kit right now, and I'd like to have an easy solution that doesn't require a lot of tooling... but its a little more elegant than just using hot/cold and case screws.


----------



## Johnnybar

Mattyo said:


> if I was to produce these, it may indeed be easier to use nuts and weld them on... BUT... on a 372, you still need to rebate the inside of the threaded rod because the threaded part of the PTO side is further down on the crank ... (needle bearing, washer and eclip sit further out) ... so the crank has to go into the threaded rod about an inch before the threads can engage. I assume cranks of other species are this way as well as long as there is an inboard clutch....
> 
> so I need to drill down into the threaded rod anyway.
> 
> i like my mig a lot btw... but there are a lot of guys buying the 660 kit right now, and I'd like to have an easy solution that doesn't require a lot of tooling... but its a little more elegant than just using hot/cold and case screws.


Maybe a short piece of tubing between the nut and rod could be another option for those that don't have the special tap. Too bad we are not neighbors...we could bum tools off each other!


----------



## Mattyo

Yep...metal tube would work as a spacer...but this sort of thing starts to get quite a bit more complex...

Add to this that m14x1.25 nuts don't exist on ebay in left hand form. ...so ya really need the special tap.


----------



## Mattyo

Ok, OEM parts...just went down the street to the Stihl dealer...

crankcase gasket, 2 oem seals, impulse line and fuel line, intake manifold... $95.


----------



## davhul

I got all that for $72. Are they normally high?


----------



## Johnnybar

davhul said:


> I got all that for $72. Are they normally high?


wow, AM on ebay is way cheaper


----------



## davhul

He's probably trying to get away from the AM rubber. $72 is what we sell that oem for


----------



## Johnnybar

Mattyo said:


> Yep...metal tube would work as a spacer...but this sort of thing starts to get quite a bit more complex...
> 
> Add to this that m14x1.25 nuts don't exist on ebay in left hand form. ...so ya really need the special tap.


The center hub from a old clutch will fill the spot in a pinch. Any shop will have throw aways laying around or new AM is around $3.


----------



## Johnnybar

davhul said:


> He's probably trying to get away from the AM rubber. $72 is what we sell that oem for


I think I'm sticking to OEM to see how it goes at those prices. I'm not making a living with my 660 and I have plenty of time on my hands so the decision is easy. I think weim' recently built some all AM saws to test durability so I'll eventually add to his findings.


----------



## Johnnybar

Ordered my kit on 2-13 and no info yet. They stated that the communication system with shipping is down 3 days ago so I asked again today and specifically requested a carrier and tracking number so I can be home when it arrives...don't want any sticky fingers to help it leave my front porch if I'm not here.


----------



## Mattyo

according to DD ... here is the proper kit for gaskets, and it may be cheaper to get the whole kit than the individual gaskets...

btw, the intake boot is $40 by itself..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stihl-MS660...726601?hash=item4ae55e0f09:g:KIwAAOSweW5U6KGo


----------



## davhul

The old 064 and 066 was different. Different dealers have different prices. That boot is $29.99 here


----------



## Johnnybar

Mattyo said:


> according to DD ... here is the proper kit for gaskets, and it may be cheaper to get the whole kit than the individual gaskets...
> 
> btw, the intake boot is $40 by itself..
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stihl-MS660...726601?hash=item4ae55e0f09:g:KIwAAOSweW5U6KGo


Any chance you have a scanner on your printer so you can scan a pic of the heat shield? I have foiled glass tape to fabricate one and a pic would simplify the task.


----------



## Antarctica

Well, if I were starting a new thread not this, I'd title it _*Huztl Buzzkill*_...

After seeing this thread and a few others around the web I ordered the 660 kit a few weeks ago. It arrived about a week ago just before I headed out of town - shipping was faster than I expected. I finally got a chance to start going through it today and inspecting some parts.

I did some tolerance stackup checks on the crank and crankcases, which I think indicates I need to push one of the bearings - I'll get into that in just a bit.

The real problem I encountered is that the half of my crankcase that the six bolts thread into seems to not be tapped for those holes. See attached pics...



Another hole...



All six are untapped, although some look like 'something' (not the right tap for sure) has been down them. Maybe the tool broke and they had no tool breakage detection on the machining center? Am I missing something? I looked at a few video's of others' builds, and theirs are definitely tapped...

Pretty bummed as I was ready to get into this. Now I'll either have to tap them myself (which I shouldn't have to do) or wait for a new case half (I guess I'll start to experience what kind of customer support they really have). Has anyone else seen this?

As far as the crank and cases tolerance stackup, I made the following measurements:

Crank lobe machined shoulder to machined shoulder - 1.293

Depth of one case to bearing - 0.136
Depth of other case to bearing - 1.119
Gasket thickness - 0.020

So, the total bearing to bearing distance - 1.275

Which means its about 0.015 too narrow for the crank shoulders. Granted, pushing it all together will probably result in one of the bearing s moving anyway, but it seems like an opportunity for undue side load pressure on the crank bearings...

Thoughts? Ignore it? push one bearing back a bit?


----------



## Mattyo

not an expert here, but sometimes the clutch side bearing needs to be seated to a particular depth, and usually the flywheel side is buried or minimum flush.

btw, i'm taking notes from lots of guys here and gonna put it in my vids one way or another...


----------



## Johnnybar

Looks like you also have some casting porosity in that second pic...unless that is an image ghost some 1184 or equivalent will be required. Did you try a case bolt in the holes to verify that it wasn't drilled oversize vs untapped?


----------



## Johnnybar

Anyone have a clue what this means as far as ship progress? Is "forwarder" the carrier such as DHL or FedX?

Dear Sir，
Thanks for your message.
Your order had already been sent out to our forwarder.
And they will provide the tracking number later.
Our order processing system met some problems, so we cannot update the shipping status in time. Really sorry for this problem.

Best regards,
Evie


----------



## jackjcc

Johnnybar said:


> Anyone have a clue what this means as far as ship progress? Is "forwarder" the carrier such as DHL or FedX?
> 
> Dear Sir，
> Thanks for your message.
> Your order had already been sent out to our forwarder.
> And they will provide the tracking number later.
> Our order processing system met some problems, so we cannot update the shipping status in time. Really sorry for this problem.
> 
> Best regards,
> Evie



So if you have given them your cell number you should get a text about tracking. It's really odd, I didn't realize I had given them my cell number. The forwarder is the carrier in the US. They ship to the US and a domestic carrier completes the shipment. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mattyo

fyi, 11220071053 gasket set is $44.99 at my dealer... like best to buy this rather than individual pieces


----------



## Antarctica

Johnnybar said:


> Looks like you also have some casting porosity in that second pic...unless that is an image ghost some 1184 or equivalent will be required. Did you try a case bolt in the holes to verify that it wasn't drilled oversize vs untapped?



Yes - the holes are not drilled oversize, just not tapped. I don't see any real porosity issues, but will probably assemble with a gasket sealant anyway.

So, I guess I'm the only one so far with this issue... My luck...


----------



## Johnnybar

Antarctica said:


> Yes - the holes are not drilled oversize, just not tapped. I don't see any real porosity issues, but will probably assemble with a gasket sealant anyway.
> 
> So, I guess I'm the only one so far with this issue... My luck...


Only a time issue, Huztl has a 12 month defects in materials and workmanship warranty with all shipping covered by them. PS, If they do not want it returned, even the cheap chinese tap sets will do a good job on aluminum and mag castings. It is best to use a drill press or mill to start each one to ensure a straight thread. Taps have a counterbore on the tap handle end...chuck a short steel point in the drill press then center it at the case hole and clamp the case in place. Raise the presses arbor and use the chucked point to just snug up to the tap and hold it while making a few threads to ensure a good square start.


----------



## Antarctica

Thanks Johnnybar - 

Tapping it isn't really an issue (other than the fact that I don't have an M5 tap on hand, and of course the ever present risk of snapping the tap - even if its machined tapped)) - it's the principle of the matter.. missing those tapped holes is a pretty big QA fail... I have full machine shop in the barn (manual and cnc mills and lathes - its a hobby), but like your idea for getting the hole aligned with the quill without knowing the existing hole's orientation to the rest of the part..


----------



## Johnnybar

Gotcha and I'm the same way...after waiting for it to arrive then this!!!!!!!!! It's like the year you got a bag of red hots for Christmas instead of that pony you wanted....actually happened to my wife...lol


----------



## Antarctica

Johnnybar said:


> Gotcha and I'm the same way...after waiting for it to arrive then this!!!!!!!!! It's like the year you got a bag of red hots for Christmas instead of that pony you wanted....actually happened to my wife...lol



That and just dealing with it, just because I can, only send the message to Hutzl/Farmertec that this kind of QA/QC failure is acceptable, and the same sort of thing continues to happen to other folks. Accountability...


----------



## Ozhoo

Antarctica said:


> That and just dealing with it, just because I can, only send the message to Hutzl/Farmertec that this kind of QA/QC failure is acceptable, and the same sort of thing continues to happen to other folks. Accountability...



Here's the generic Hutzl response... if you press them, you'll get a replacement part.

_Today we have confirmed with our worker and technician, the broken parts could not affect its using.

This problem rarely happened before. We always want to offer good products and service to all of our customers, but sometimes we are helpless at the problem occurs in the transportation. Since the problem happened, we hope we can help you solve it properly. We have confirmed with our technicians several times about this problem, and this won’t affect the normal using. But we understand you bought a brand new item.So here we hope to make partial refund of $20.00 to compensate you in this case.

We understand this may affect your mood in this problem, but we hope you can trust us. We have sold plenty of chainsaw parts and complete chainsaws in our business and we have met many kinds of problem. If we don't have confidence, we won't promise you that those factors won't affect using. To cheat you is absolutely no good to us._


----------



## Mattyo

Antarctica said:


> Thanks Johnnybar -
> 
> Tapping it isn't really an issue (other than the fact that I don't have an M5 tap on hand, and of course the ever present risk of snapping the tap - even if its machined tapped)) - it's the principle of the matter.. missing those tapped holes is a pretty big QA fail... I have full machine shop in the barn (manual and cnc mills and lathes - its a hobby), but like your idea for getting the hole aligned with the quill without knowing the existing hole's orientation to the rest of the part..




Ok, Antartica, I gotta say something here. You have a full machine shop in the barn ... (enviable by most on this site) ... but no m5 tap on hand? the m5 is one of the most useful taps if you end up doing saw work. m6 and m4 are close seconds. I think its m5x.8 that you need. Even the harbor freight metric tap set should have one of these, and I can't imagine that'd cost you more than $40 for the whole set. of course, thats one of the first ones that I broke myself, ... or had to create a flat bottom tap... i forget, so eventually you'll need a bunch more m5's. 

Though it seems like this is kinda a dumb thing for them to miss, the reality is that its far easier to find a tap and tap it yourself than to fight with hutzl over this. AND, the no threads issue is a FAR easier fix than some of the other issues people have had. Consider yourself fortunate.


----------



## Ms290man

What's the typical shipping time on these that folks have seen? I ordered one on the 16th and got confirmation of the order same day but no shipment confirmation yet.


----------



## Ozhoo

Ms290man said:


> What's the typical shipping time on these that folks have seen? I ordered one on the 16th and got confirmation of the order same day but no shipment confirmation yet.



It used to be 10 days to the door but it's been slow lately. My last order took 10 days before it even shipped and another 6 days to get here. Your best bet is to keep harping on Evie at [email protected]


----------



## Antarctica

Mattyo said:


> Ok, Antartica, I gotta say something here. You have a full machine shop in the barn ... (enviable by most on this site) ... but no m5 tap on hand? the m5 is one of the most useful taps if you end up doing saw work. m6 and m4 are close seconds. I think its m5x.8 that you need. Even the harbor freight metric tap set should have one of these, and I can't imagine that'd cost you more than $40 for the whole set. of course, thats one of the first ones that I broke myself, ... or had to create a flat bottom tap... i forget, so eventually you'll need a bunch more m5's.
> 
> Though it seems like this is kinda a dumb thing for them to miss, the reality is that its far easier to find a tap and tap it yourself than to fight with hutzl over this. AND, the no threads issue is a FAR easier fix than some of the other issues people have had. Consider yourself fortunate.



Hi Mattyo - 

Nope - no M5 tap on hand that I can think of. Why? In 30 years of futzing with stuff, I've never needed one. Probably never will beyond this either. Its a misconception that every machine shop, either commercial or hobby/part-time/side line (even though my equipment is used, straight off the manufacturing floor) stocks ever piece of tooling known to man. It would simply be a waste of money for a lot of tooling never needed. Shops buy tooling according to need, and if its left over after the job, then they may happen to have it on hand. Why would I buy a whole set of cheap ass taps that I'll never use? Experience shows that its better to buy 3 high quality ones when I need them. Depending on the tap, I might not even tap it but thread mill it.

As for tooling sources, well, you get what you pay for - especially with tooling. HF may have a time an a place with a lot of folks, and I think I even have one of those cheap SAE sets bouncing around the shop (I guess it might be good for teaching the boy to tap some day, rather than have him break good taps) as well as a few other non-critical tools (I was actually thinking of using this project as an excuse to pick up a cheap press from HF), but if/when I do elect to tap this thing (and there's no reason I shouldn't hold Hutzl accountable such an error) I'll probably do so with a quality bottom tap with another in my back pocket.

I don't really consider myself fortunate having received a primary component that isn't usable in the state received.


----------



## davhul

At first huztl will offer a refund and you keep the part. If you refuse then they will ship you another. That's what went down with the crack in my oil tank.


----------



## Antarctica

Thanks davhul - 

I'll take a look for that also. I still haven't made it thoroughly through all 105 pages of this thread (I'm in the process of doing so now and noting posts that are particularly important/informative).

So far I've had no response from them, but its only been a day.


----------



## davhul

They got back with me about 1:30am eastern. My other 2 kits were fine. Other than I had to use the adjuster bushing. Glad they got that fixed.


----------



## Mattyo

Far as I can see....crack in an oil tank is a different ballgame than lack of threads. Neither are usable parts out of the box. ..but one is much more easily remidied...

If you are as experienced as your setup indicates...it'll take you minutes to fix the tap issue...whereas a Crack in a housing ...though weldable....is far more fatal an issue.

Antarctica. ...if you need an m5 tap I'll ship you one gratis.


----------



## ckelp

Ozhoo said:


> It used to be 10 days to the door but it's been slow lately. My last order took 10 days before it even shipped and another 6 days to get here. Your best bet is to keep harping on Evie at [email protected]


yep, my order was put in on 2-15 in the evening and i just (week later) on the confirmation it shipped on 2-21. currently it's in Hong Kong


----------



## davhul

Mattyo said:


> Far as I can see....crack in an oil tank is a different ballgame than lack of threads. Neither are usable parts out of the box. ..but one is much more easily remidied...


I'm just telling him what to expect. 
I have the extra case for it if it ever leaks. For now I'm running it with dirko and no leak. I'll tear it down if I have to. 
This is a pic as of today


----------



## Johnnybar

davhul said:


> I'm just telling him what to expect.
> I have the extra case for it if it ever leaks. For now I'm running it with dirko and no leak. I'll tear it down if I have to.
> This is a pic as of today


Those PepsiCola cans always act up when making chainsaw cases out of them! Looks like it is at the top of the oil reservoir near the muffler....guess that's better than at the bottom.


----------



## davhul

Not saying it won't ever leak. Has over 5 gal of fuel through it.


----------



## Wood Chopper

UPS came while in the yard. Thought he was going to hand me the taps that I bought off ebay. Instead he had the kit from Huztl. Ill un pack it tonight. I checked the case threads and so far they seem to be there. Ordered it on the 14th. Surprised to see it today. I got to finish some wood projects up and start on it this weekend. Going to build this one with the cross p&c. That came yesterday..


----------



## Johnnybar

Wood Chopper said:


> UPS came while in the yard. Thought he was going to hand me the taps that I bought off ebay. Instead he had the kit from Huztl. Ill un pack it tonight. I checked the case threads and so far they seem to be there. Ordered it on the 14th. Surprised to see it today. I got to finish some wood projects up and start on it this weekend. Going to build this one with the cross p&c. That came yesterday..


Ordered my 660 on the 13th but I'm in Oklahoma so maybe in the next day or two???????????? Evie at Huztl has been no help with a tracking number that is valid with SF Express or any other carrier.


----------



## Ms290man

Evie told me today that they didn't ship my kit yet (ordered on the 16th) because the BB kit I ordered was out of stock. But didn't tell me when it was getting back in stock....


----------



## Antarctica

FYI - Seems like they are working to resolve this...

"Dear ZZZ,
Thanks for your email.
Sorry for this problem, the tap issue has happened accidentally, we checked our stock and found they all be ok.
We will ship you the flywheel side crankcase right now to work out this problem for you.
In the future if you need customer support please email to [email protected] so that you can get prompt response.
Have a good day
HUZTL Farmertec"


----------



## Mattyo

Well, looks like you don't need an m5 tap from me... nice. Glad they resolved that quick

I just got my 660 order today. Placed 2/3 ... arrive 2/22. BUT, they told me the order I placed on 2/11 would be merged with the 2/3 order. Nope 

Apparently its coming separately. oh well.


----------



## Wood Chopper

Johnnybar said:


> Ordered my 660 on the 13th but I'm in Oklahoma so maybe in the next day or two???????????? Evie at Huztl has been no help with a tracking number that is valid with SF Express or any other carrier.



I would think you would have yours by Friday...Hopefully


----------



## KennyPete

I ordered one of these kits. Never sent me tracking info, but it showed up 3 weeks later. 

All parts are here and accounted for. 

I assembled the crankcase. Froze the crank, heated the case halves, and it went pretty smooth. Will update as I go.


----------



## blsnelling

Antarctica said:


> FYI - Seems like they are working to resolve this...
> 
> "Dear ZZZ,
> Thanks for your email.
> Sorry for this problem, the tap issue has happened accidentally, we checked our stock and found they all be ok.
> We will ship you the flywheel side crankcase right now to work out this problem for you.
> In the future if you need customer support please email to [email protected] so that you can get prompt response.
> Have a good day
> HUZTL Farmertec"


So, they're not machining them in sets as they should be?


----------



## Antarctica

blsnelling said:


> So, they're not machining them in sets as they should be?



I see no reason they should be. I'm sure they do a run of one side and then the other, or run separate jobs on separate machines. What possible advantage would there be to machining in sets? These are relatively low tolerance parts by today's manufacturing standards. Not even sure how you envision that happening - by mating the two side and drilling/tapping the holes? There's no reason to do that - the slop in the unthreaded side is large, and once they are mated, you can't do any interior operations. Any alignment, is done with the pins. With rough 3-4 inches across the crank, a misalignment of a few thou is in the noise. The accuracy and repeatability of the machining is a function of the setup tooling (fixture/jig) and the machine, or on how the part is touched off/referenced when each casting goes on the machine..


----------



## Ozhoo

OEM's machine crankcase halves as matched sets in just about every industry. Necessary or not is debatable, but that's the way it's done. I built atv engines for some time and mixing case halves was cause for having our fried rice taken away.


----------



## Antarctica

Ozhoo said:


> OEM's machine crankcase halves as matched sets in just about every industry. Necessary or not is debatable, but that's the way it's done. I built atv engines for some time and mixing case halves was cause for having our fried rice taken away.




Not debating you, but why? What do they see as the advantage? I can only see disadvantages (somewhat cited in my post). Apologies if this is getting off topic in an already way-too-long thread.


----------



## blsnelling

IIRC, it's only the cylinder deck and bearing/seal bores that are machined as a set.


----------



## Antarctica

blsnelling said:


> IIRC, it's only the cylinder deck and bearing/seal bores that are machined as a set.



OK - cylinder deck I can see - good point I hadn't thought of, although I would expect most of any slop in that could like be taken up by the gasket - but I can definitely see where there would deb some advantage there.


----------



## grizz55chev

Antarctica said:


> Not debating you, but why? What do they see as the advantage? I can only see disadvantages (somewhat cited in my post). Apologies if this is getting off topic in an already way-too-long thread.


I've put two case halves together from two separate saws, ran fine for a while then main bearing failure occurred. I'll never do it t again.


----------



## Antarctica

Good to know - 

I've shot them an email to find out if the Huztl machines them together. They were packaged together.

Brent


----------



## weimedog

That would be "best practice". I've seen a 562 that had a .007 step between the halves.  So no longer certain all OEM do that "best practice" anymore. But step back a second. To accomplish the "best practice" that would assume the cases are assembled at least with the locating pins right? Or fixtured relative to them. And whats important is the bearing pockets both in alignment and orientation, something that if is off a gasket can't fix! See where this is going? I would venture that castings very a bit from part to part, so machining them has to be referenced from a "machined" location.....that would most likely be things like the locating pins or some other critical machined feature like those bearing pockets... Of course the machining on those high volume parts probably are done on dedicated equipment, that also has a high tolerance capability. IF a major OEM is willing to sell a case halve, you have the answer to the question. I do know 562 cases got really cheap recently and they now come as a set... is that relevant? Don't know.


----------



## Johnnybar

Antarctica said:


> Good to know -
> 
> I've shot them an email to find out if the Huztl machines them together. They were packaged together.
> 
> Brent


Just look at the machine marks on the cylinder deck when joined...that will tell you all you need to know.


----------



## Antarctica

Johnnybar said:


> Just look at the machine marks on the cylinder deck when joined...that will tell you all you need to know.



Yep - was planning on doing that when I get home, although if they did indeed do them together, might they be ground vs machined? Could be hard to see anything if they were ground.


----------



## weimedog

Likely a face mill. Need to have positive rake on that stuff, at least a positive rake on the chip breaker. Grinding?? Not as likely. Abrasive machining on those type of parts. Not so good.


----------



## Ozhoo

weimedog said:


> Likely a face mill. Need to have positive rake on that stuff, at least a positive rake on the chip breaker. Grinding?? Not as likely. Abrasive machining on those type of parts. Not so good.



And here I was picturing a little china man perched atop a wooden block with a chisel.


----------



## Johnnybar

Antarctica said:


> Yep - was planning on doing that when I get home, although if they did indeed do them together, might they be ground vs machined? Could be hard to see anything if they were ground.


No grinding on non ferrous...clogs wheel immediately


----------



## Antarctica

Definitely milled and definitely not milled as a mated pair (at least the set I received). Very different tooling marks on each piece..


----------



## weimedog

Opicture post: 6170246 said:


> And here I was picturing a little china man perched atop a wooden block with a chisel.


I have a picture I took in 1981 ..in the back ground a diesamatic automatic casting system....in the foreground a man in shorts and bare feet, hand scraping in the ways on a Niigata HN50a horizontal machining center.....using a lazer...as a measurement device


----------



## Ozhoo

I just got some engines in and I'm more convinced than ever that it's a china man perched atop a wooden block. QA department never came back from that holiday break or they're bagging up whatever crap they have sitting around.


----------



## Johnnybar

2017-02-22 Wednesday
19:36:04 Shipment loaded at 【Shanghai Pudong Distribution Center】, send to 【America New York Gateway】

Finally got tracking info. Took 9 days from order to load out in China. So it's no longer just a dream fantasy of some poor crumpled HuFlungDung Chinese beer can's dream reincarnation into something with incredible KungFu power to topple trees. That poor beer can and a bunch of his ChopSuey tin buddies will become gods in the fields and fence rows of Oklahoma! God Bless America-Chinese trade!  Couldn't resist a little good hearted humor.

So does that SF shipping update mean that it's on a slow boat from China or a fast plane?


----------



## Ozhoo

Johnnybar said:


> 2017-02-22 Wednesday
> ....So does that SF shipping update mean that it's on a slow boat from China or a fast plane?



They hitch a ride aboard a China Air flight for a lift stateside.


----------



## Ms290man

Hey guys, if anyone wants a cheap backup cylinder, HL Supply has MS660 cylinder kits (54mm) as their "deal of the day" today (2/24/17).

Not affiliated or endorsing them, just making a note for those interested.


----------



## schmauster

Thinking about building one of these for the big oaks I get into sometimes. The 310 just doesn't cut it..

Have you guys seen this listing? A little misleading with that MS660 sticker on top... Till you read the description. Country of manufacture China and recommended 25:1 fuel to oil.

http://m.ebay.com/itm/192105467710?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368


----------



## weimedog

Probably should be more proud of their saw and label them "FT660" ... Or with the 56mm versions. "BD100" for "Big Dog 100cc"


----------



## Johnnybar

schmauster said:


> Thinking about building one of these for the big oaks I get into sometimes. The 310 just doesn't cut it..
> 
> Have you guys seen this listing? A little misleading with that MS660 sticker on top... Till you read the description. Country of manufacture China and recommended 25:1 fuel to oil.
> 
> http://m.ebay.com/itm/192105467710?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368


A lot cheaper through Alibaba but a little more fuss to get the deal finalized . I can get a turnkey 372 for $260 delivered and 660's aren't a lot different iirc.


----------



## Ozhoo

I've seen enough of em to not recommend a pre-assembled saw. OEM's build quality into the production process. Farmertec QA process starts with the buyer. "Will it run?", seems to be the standard and that's why we get them so cheaply. But to buy one pre-assembled and not go over it is an absolute crap shoot.


----------



## Ozhoo

Don't get the wrong impression. I love that there is an affordable alternative to oem but if you want a lasting product you need to take the time to inspect and replace the defects.


----------



## Johnnybar

Ozhoo said:


> I've seen enough of em to not recommend a pre-assembled saw. OEM's build quality into the production process. Farmertec QA process starts with the buyer. "Will it run?", seems to be the standard and that's why we get them so cheaply. But to buy one pre-assembled and not go over it is an absolute crap shoot.


What would you check other than pressure/vacume and squish then pull jug and check for free crank bearings, port's condition and toss compression release?


----------



## davhul

I wouldn't trust them putting it together


----------



## Ozhoo

Edited to make it a little more readable

- Pressure and Vacuum test are the big ones and pulling the jug before fueling
- Prior to tear down, rotate the engine by hand to insure that the piston skirts clear the crank
- You wanna get in there and make sure that nothing is gonna wreck the cylinder on startup
- Clean/Rinse the cylinder
- Rinse the crankcase, then rinse it again
- Check for a little burr that like to form inside the crankcase around the impulse nipple
- Check that the crankshaft is centered
- Oil all the bearings.
- Make sure that the base gasket is installed correctly
- clip the ears from the piston circlips or replace with oem
- Loctite & torque everything (keep an eye out for stripped bolts)
- Pressure test the tank and carburetor
- Install heat reflective tape under & over the muffler
- If you're gonna run the decomp valve coat the thread with a thread sealer
- Check run out on clutch drum and grease bearing
- Grease the chain adjuster and test for function
- Check bar studs. If if only have 20mm sticking out, they're installed backwards

_Further edited to add to my rambling,_
You wanna give everything a look over. Obvious defects that I've seen are bearings under-pressed, seals over-pressed. Seals rolled, cylinders trashed in every way imaginable, stripped screws or loose screws, plenty of leaky carbs, leaky base gaskets, no oil ever on any bearing (cylinders have been oiled though), leaky decomps, buggered clutch drums, missing seals under the oil pump, and loads of backwards bar studs.


----------



## grizz55chev

schmauster said:


> Thinking about building one of these for the big oaks I get into sometimes. The 310 just doesn't cut it..
> 
> Have you guys seen this listing? A little misleading with that MS660 sticker on top... Till you read the description. Country of manufacture China and recommended 25:1 fuel to oil.
> 
> http://m.ebay.com/itm/192105467710?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368


499$ worth of rice is a lot of rice! Wonder how many fall for this scam?


----------



## grizz55chev

Ozhoo said:


> Edited to make it a little more readable
> 
> - Pressure and Vacuum test are the big ones and pulling the jug before fueling
> - Prior to tear down, rotate the engine by hand to insure that the piston skirts clear the crank
> - You wanna get in there and make sure that nothing is gonna wreck the cylinder on startup
> - Clean/Rinse the cylinder
> - Rinse the crankcase, then rinse it again
> - Check for a little burr that like to form inside the crankcase around the impulse nipple
> - Check that the crankshaft is centered
> - Oil all the bearings.
> - Make sure that the base gasket is installed correctly
> - clip the ears from the piston circlips or replace with oem
> - Loctite & torque everything (keep an eye out for stripped bolts)
> - Pressure test the tank and carburetor
> - Install heat reflective tape under & over the muffler
> - If you're gonna run the decomp valve coat the thread with a thread sealer
> - Check run out on clutch drum and grease bearing
> - Grease the chain adjuster and test for function
> - Check bar studs. If if only have 20mm sticking out, they're installed backwards
> 
> _Further edited to add to my rambling,_
> You wanna give everything a look over. Obvious defects that I've seen are bearings under-pressed, seals over-pressed. Seals rolled, cylinders trashed in every way imaginable, stripped screws or loose screws, plenty of leaky carbs, leaky base gaskets, no oil ever on any bearing (cylinders have been oiled though), leaky decomps, buggered clutch drums, missing seals under the oil pump, and loads of backwards bar studs.


Other than that they're great!


----------



## Johnnybar

schmauster said:


> Thinking about building one of these for the big oaks I get into sometimes. The 310 just doesn't cut it..
> 
> Have you guys seen this listing? A little misleading with that MS660 sticker on top... Till you read the description. Country of manufacture China and recommended 25:1 fuel to oil.
> 
> http://m.ebay.com/itm/192105467710?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368


$270 delivered in kit form from Huztl.net


----------



## Mattyo

CORRECTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

IMPORTANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was under the impression that the 660 crank PTO threads were m12x1.25 LH... THEY ARE NOT. multiple sources told me they were... this is INCORRECT. 

THEY ARE M12x1.0 LH .... which means I need to order another tap. 

they are not the same as the husky threads.


----------



## schmauster

Plus side is most of the parts should be there and in semi usable condition if they were able to get it together.

Negatives are it might be trashed from a crappy cylinder and them spinning it over scraping the wall. It's harder to inspect everything piece by piece before you run it and figure it out the hard way. 

OZHOO said it better

Wonder what the warranty is on the pre assembled. I don't have any experience building a saw from the ground up like that.

Even if it was the same price I would trust myself and learn a lot more building it.


----------



## grizz55chev

Mattyo said:


> CORRECTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> IMPORTANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> I was under the impression that the 660 crank PTO threads were m12x1.25 LH... THEY ARE NOT. multiple sources told me they were... this is INCORRECT.
> 
> THEY ARE M12x1.0 LH .... which means I need to order another tap.
> 
> they are not the same as the husky threads.


 NOw you're ready for the Husky though!


----------



## Mattyo

ya! 

I got the PTO side together by baking the case half ... then putting the crank in... WHOOPSIES ... the big end bearing fell right out when I did that. ...so I needed to install the oiler, bake at 300f again, then install the crank. ... then I used my new tool on the flywheel side...and it worked! very nice!


----------



## Johnnybar

Mattyo said:


> ya!
> 
> I got the PTO side together by baking the case half ... then putting the crank in... WHOOPSIES ... the big end bearing fell right out when I did that. ...so I needed to install the oiler, bake at 300f again, then install the crank. ... then I used my new tool on the flywheel side...and it worked! very nice!


300 preheat...oven off...insert case to warm? 300 is getting pretty toasty.


----------



## blsnelling

Mattyo said:


> ya!
> 
> I got the PTO side together by baking the case half ... then putting the crank in... WHOOPSIES ... the big end bearing fell right out when I did that. ...so I needed to install the oiler, bake at 300f again, then install the crank. ... then I used my new tool on the flywheel side...and it worked! very nice!


Did the finish blister?


----------



## Johnnybar

Here is some general info available from a premium bearing manufacturer:
"Normally a bearing temperature increase of 150° F above the shaft temperature provides sufficient expansion for mounting. As the bearing cools, it contracts and tightly grips the shaft. It’s important to heat the bearing uniformly and to regulate heat accurately. Bearings should not be heated above 250° F, as excess heat can destroy a bearing’s metallurgical properties, softening the bearing and potentially changing its dimensions permanently. Standard ball bearings fitted with shields or seals should not be heated above 210° F because of their grease fill or seal material. Never heat a bearing using an open flame such as a blowtorch."


----------



## Mattyo

finish is fine. the oven temp was 305 ... but I don't think the case itself got above 280 on my temp gun. the powdercoat was chipping a bit anyway when I got it, but its no worse now than before. 

yes, I know a torch isn't ideal, and especially on these nylon cage bearings. ...hence my need/want/desire to make tools to do this stuff at room temp. i'm kinda upset that I got bad info to start, was hoping to order the tap I needed before the saw arrived. good news is that the taps did show up, but they weren't the correct size for 660. on the upside, yes I'm good to go for the husky stuff ... AND... the tools worked brilliantly for the flywheel side today.


----------



## blsnelling

There's no need to heat a bearing, just the case.


----------



## Mattyo

the bearings are already installed in the case ... thats how the cases come. I need to heat the bearing to get the crank through it, unless you have the tool or a press 

i thought I had the tool... but, I tapped for the wrong threads. you'll see in the vid


----------



## Johnnybar

Getting closer to it's new home! 

2017-02-24 Friday
16:35:25 In transit
15:46:09 The customs clearance is completed.
14:09:45 Shipment arrive at 【America New York Gateway】


----------



## ckelp

mine is 50 miles from my house


----------



## Mattyo




----------



## schmauster

Awesome video. Super helpful for the everyday bear like myself!


----------



## Mattyo

Welcome!


----------



## Jasonrkba

Ordered my engine off eBay from Huztl on the 14th and it arrived today the 25th. That's a pretty good turnaround from China with free shipping if you ask me.


----------



## Mattyo

i'm missing bolts and have extra stuff too lol


----------



## Jasonrkba

The ms170 came fully assembled! Made it easy for the most part.


----------



## schmauster

How did the pre assembled saw run Jason? Many hours?


----------



## Jasonrkba

I'm still assembling it. I ran into a hiccup caused by myself. I have a thread about it on here right now.

Need help.lol


----------



## Johnnybar

schmauster said:


> How did the pre assembled saw run Jason? Many hours?


He must mean he had a short block as part of the kit.


----------



## Jasonrkba

Cylinder, piston, crank and pan already buttoned up.


----------



## Jasonrkba

One issue I did have that just crossed my mind. Normally when setting ignition module air gap I use a business card. I could not do that here. I had to lock it down while lightly prying it out with a screwdriver. Than turn the flywheel until the magnet's where under it. Normally at this point I put the business card in and release it. But it was just to tight. What I did is use a feeler gauge under the secondary part of the coil, or the arm that comes off of it. I had to set that at .012 and put the card under the coil itself. When I tried .010 the flywheel would hit. Doing it this way the flywheel turns without contact.


----------



## Mattyo

part 2 is up!


----------



## a. palmer jr.

Mattyo said:


> the bearings are already installed in the case ... thats how the cases come. I need to heat the bearing to get the crank through it, unless you have the tool or a press
> 
> i thought I had the tool... but, I tapped for the wrong threads. you'll see in the vid


 On my 039 I put the crank in the deep freeze for a while and parked the bearing near a light bulb. After a few minutes it slipped right on!


----------



## Mattyo

Yep....I used to keep my cranks in the freezer...no need anymore


----------



## Mattyo

part 3 is up!


----------



## Johnnybar

a. palmer jr. said:


> On my 039 I put the crank in the deep freeze for a while and parked the bearing near a light bulb. After a few minutes it slipped right on!


One of the premium bearing manufacturers recommends a 150F difference in parts to seat bearings. So a -10F frozen bearing and a 140F case is supposed to achieve the task if tolerances were machined properly.


----------



## Mattyo

So....does your freezer go to -10f? Pretty sure mine doesnt get THAT cold......Admittedly it would be nice to have some liquid nitrogen...but why? The 660 has bearings that are already seated. With a couple of the correct size taps (m10x1 anr m12x1 lh) and some threaded rod you don't need heat or cold....


----------



## Mattyo

Btw...I do keep my bearings in the freezer but my target temp is 250 f case temp for seating bearings. I can't imagine that this temp has any negative affect on the bearing. ..no worse than the 13k rpm explosions that happen 6" away hehe


----------



## Johnnybar

Mattyo said:


> Btw...I do keep my bearings in the freezer but my target temp is 250 f case temp for seating bearings. I can't imagine that this temp has any negative affect on the bearing. ..no worse than the 13k rpm explosions that happen 6" away hehe


Nice to see you are having success. More than one way to skin a cat my friend. -10F/+140F is just an example ...tweek the numbers to fit your freezer. This is not a contest for best or quickest or....... We are all here just sharing information. If a methods fits your situation, run with it. If not, let it go. If you see impending doom or ruining parts, give a fair warning. Have fun in the shop and online.


----------



## Mattyo

YES! 

I'd like to think we are always striving for better. At this point, if I need to seat bearings I'd probably still heat up the cases and chill the bearings. but this thread is about the 660 kit... and since they already come with bearings installed, i've found a better way to seat the crank....without heat, or cold, or lateral forces... or a hammer (bad around bearings). If you want to keep doing it with heat thats fine... and thats currently the most common method here on the board *because* specialty tools are just that...specialty. my contention is that specialty tools are not THAT specialty, and they are easy to make... and have zero risk of buggary  ... AND i have a guide on youtube on how to do it. 

I'm going to do a 372 hutzl as soon as it shows up at my door in a day or two. the crank install will be nearly identical to the 660 and I will use tools for both sides of the crank. 

I'll extend this offer, if you want to build other saws, let me know and I'll ship you down a set of tools to try ... just ship them back when done, or ship them on to the next guy that's building a kit....


----------



## a. palmer jr.

I thought someone said that the bearings are already installed in the case halves, is that not correct?


----------



## Mattyo

"but this thread is about the 660 kit... and since they already come with bearings installed" just said it...yes


----------



## Wood Chopper

Yes they are. So are the seals which most are removing before installing crank then putting oem seals back in


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Johnnybar

Mattyo said:


> YES!
> 
> I'd like to think we are always striving for better. At this point, if I need to seat bearings I'd probably still heat up the cases and chill the bearings. but this thread is about the 660 kit... and since they already come with bearings installed, i've found a better way to seat the crank....without heat, or cold, or lateral forces... or a hammer (bad around bearings). If you want to keep doing it with heat thats fine... and thats currently the most common method here on the board *because* specialty tools are just that...specialty. my contention is that specialty tools are not THAT specialty, and they are easy to make... and have zero risk of buggary  ... AND i have a guide on youtube on how to do it.
> 
> I'm going to do a 372 hutzl as soon as it shows up at my door in a day or two. the crank install will be nearly identical to the 660 and I will use tools for both sides of the crank.
> 
> I'll extend this offer, if you want to build other saws, let me know and I'll ship you down a set of tools to try ... just ship them back when done, or ship them on to the next guy that's building a kit....


Thanks friend but I have a full machine shop, mill, lathe, etc... barely room to walk through the shop! I personally use a light porta power ram to do my pressing or pulling. On another note, any chance you ever get over near Pomfret or Putnam?


----------



## davhul

Here's a quick 660 vid


----------



## Johnnybar

davhul said:


> Here's a quick 660 vid



LOL! That was quick! I've have a Benjamin to place on you next competition! LOL


----------



## ckelp

is it just me or is anyone else having an issue with the crankshaft? it's like they did not take enough off the counterweights and a nub by the rod bearing, first a nub on the flywheel side was hitting the case, i filed it down so i was good to go, now BDC i (i think) can her the skirt scraping the counterweights.
when i get home tonight i'm going to send huztl a message with some measurements to see if i can get a new one on the way.. i wish i had a lathe just to to cut a mm or two off it and be done with it.


----------



## Johnnybar

ckelp said:


> is it just me or is anyone else having an issue with the crankshaft? it's like they did not take enough off the counterweights and a nub by the rod bearing, first a nub on the flywheel side was hitting the case, i filed it down so i was good to go, now BDC i (i think) can her the skirt scraping the counterweights.
> when i get home tonight i'm going to send huztl a message with some measurements to see if i can get a new one on the way.. i wish i had a lathe just to to cut a mm or two off it and be done with it.


Is the crank centered in the case?


----------



## davhul

On my #2 kit I had to take alittle off the piston skirt. It was slightly scraping the counter weights.


----------



## Johnnybar

You might also consider the possibility of the skirt kissing the gasket. Others have occasionally had to touch up parts that interfered and noted it on here or YT. Definitely a find and fix situation before test run.


----------



## weimedog

Johnnybar said:


> You might also consider the possibility of the skirt kissing the gasket. Others have occasionally had to touch up parts that interfered and noted it on here or YT. Definitely a find and fix situation before test run.


Always on the 56mm's...


----------



## Mattyo

Johnnybar said:


> Thanks friend but I have a full machine shop, mill, lathe, etc... barely room to walk through the shop! I personally use a light porta power ram to do my pressing or pulling. On another note, any chance you ever get over near Pomfret or Putnam?



I don't ever get over to those places... not that I can't though  

I have inlaws in OK, south of Tulsa... Mounds I think


----------



## grizz55chev

Johnnybar said:


> Nice to see you are having success. More than one way to skin a cat my friend. -10F/+140F is just an example ...tweek the numbers to fit your freezer. This is not a contest for best or quickest or....... We are all here just sharing information. If a methods fits your situation, run with it. If not, let it go. If you see impending doom or ruining parts, give a fair warning. Have fun in the shop and online.


Wise words, the two things I see is sharing info and having fun. Well said my friend, well said!


----------



## Johnnybar

Mattyo said:


> I don't ever get over to those places... not that I can't though
> 
> I have inlaws in OK, south of Tulsa... Mounds I think


Let me know if you or a buddy heads that way. There is some nice .404 .063 available there that requires face to face or else a money order blind purchase which I resist like the plague.


----------



## KennyPete

This pile of parts is finally looking like a saw. 

Waiting for a new clutch drum before I fire it up. The one they sent me was too tight. It measured .611 and the one off my stock 660 measures .630. Tried milling it out but those clutch drums are made of some pretty tough stuff, my carbide boring bar only polished it.


----------



## Johnnybar

KennyPete said:


> This pile of parts is finally looking like a saw.
> 
> Waiting for a new clutch drum before I fire it up. The one they sent me was too tight. It measured .611 and the one off my stock 660 measures .630. Tried milling it out but those clutch drums are made of some pretty tough stuff, my carbide boring bar only polished it.
> 
> View attachment 561267


Wow, good report on raw materials used...too bad they can't get the dimensions right.  Maybe an 041 class drum...iirc they use 12mmx15mm bearings...660 uses a 16mm bearing.


----------



## Mattyo

Johnnybar said:


> Let me know if you or a buddy heads that way. There is some nice .404 .063 available there that requires face to face or else a money order blind purchase which I resist like the plague.



if I needed the 404 i'd be all over that myself. thanks for the heads up though... 

interesting about the drums. very interesting....

the "bell" that goes into the flywheel side of the chainbrake handle (the long screw goes through it) wasn't included in my kit... i happened to have one. I tried drilling it out to get a regular m5 bolt to fit. forget it. needed diamond on my dremel to open her up a bit!


----------



## Johnnybar

Mattyo said:


> if I needed the 404 i'd be all over that myself. thanks for the heads up though...
> 
> interesting about the drums. very interesting....
> 
> the "bell" that goes into the flywheel side of the chainbrake handle (the long screw goes through it) wasn't included in my kit... i happened to have one. I tried drilling it out to get a regular m5 bolt to fit. forget it. needed diamond on my dremel to open her up a bit!


Wish the Chinese would start using that stuff to make chains!


----------



## Johnnybar

Johnnybar said:


> Wow, good report on raw materials used...too bad they can't get the dimensions right.  Maybe an 041 class drum...iirc they use 12mmx15mm bearings...660 uses a 16mm bearing.


Actually, .610 would be ~15.5mm bearing OD so not sure what that fits.


----------



## tbohn

I just picked up a 066 with a like new 3 foot bar for a good price. I can't wait to run it next to the Huztl 660.
It has a repair in the rear handle that seems strong. I may replace with a Huztl handle if I can get a good price for one.


----------



## Mattyo

part 4

addendum is coming


----------



## Johnnybar

The popsicle arrived! 2 660 cylinders and 390 cylinder are beautiful...clean ports and perfect nickasil. Case is threaded, perfect paint job...1000% happy. 36" mill went together easy peasy. Looks to comfortably span a 33" slab....again very very happy for $57+s on it.


----------



## Mattyo

I can't believe I missed that mill for $57 .... I have a sawmill, but on the off chance I need to quarter saw something, that would have been the ticket...

here's the addendum


----------



## davhul

Johnnybar said:


> The popsicle arrived! 2 660 cylinders and 390 cylinder are beautiful...clean ports and perfect nickasil. Case is threaded, perfect paint job...1000% happy. 36" mill went together easy peasy. Looks to comfortably span a 33" slab....again very very happy for $57+s on it.
> View attachment 561333
> View attachment 561334
> View attachment 561335
> View attachment 561336
> View attachment 561337



That looks good. Real good. So there is no damaged? And everything is in the box? If so Farmertec is really trying to make this work. And their just working the kinks out. Can't wait to see your build and it run


----------



## davhul

The problem on the packing before was the heavy stuff right beside the small and sharp pieces and it would get all beat up and broke


----------



## Johnnybar

davhul said:


> That looks good. Real good. So there is no damaged? And everything is in the box? If so Farmertec is really trying to make this work. And their just working the kinks out. Can't wait to see your build and it run


Only inspected and inventoried the big stuff so far...no nut and bolt count yet.


----------



## Johnnybar

I did notice that the preinstalled oil pickup was a little stiff and did not appear that it would flop to the bottom of the oil reservoir as the saw is rotated about.


----------



## Wood Chopper

Johnnybar said:


> I did notice that the preinstalled oil pickup was a little stiff and did not appear that it would flop to the bottom of the oil reservoir as the saw is rotated about.



I thought the same thing. Once it sits in oil maybe it will soften a bit and sit lower. [emoji848]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mattyo

just gotta keep the oil filled


----------



## tbohn

I'm looking for a 56mm top for my Huztl kit. There are a lot of choices on ebay. Any suggestions based on experience?


----------



## Mattyo

No experience with this ... but this has been very popular because MM worked over the design

http://www.hlsproparts.com/Stihl-066-MS660-cylinder-kit-54mm-p/cp30066.htm?Click=48376


----------



## TPA

I'm only seeing three models at farmertec. Are they out right now?


----------



## Johnnybar

TPA said:


> I'm only seeing three models at farmertec. Are they out right now?



http://www.huztl.net/Big-Bore-56mm-...2-020-1209-With-Pin-Ring-Circlip-p229848.html runs $31 shipped. Weim' and a few others have tons of hands on experience with this topic. Hold off till they chime in.


----------



## Ms290man

Johnnybar said:


> http://www.huztl.net/Big-Bore-56mm-...2-020-1209-With-Pin-Ring-Circlip-p229848.html runs $31 shipped. Weim' and a few others have tons of hands on experience with this topic. Hold off till they chime in.



I have that as part of my order; it's out of stock (and holding up my order). They are telling me maybe next week they'll have them.


----------



## Johnnybar

_ Huztl 660 kit pics -ordered Feb 13, delivered today. Friends, if you notice anything missing, please wave the yellow flag for me...ok that was a racing flashback but you get my point...lol.










_


----------



## Mattyo

my m4 bolts for holding the oiler/clutch cover on were missing...


----------



## Mattyo

in your rubber kit, can you close up on the smaller parts and get a pic....

there are 2 or 3 pieces I can't figure out


----------



## schmauster

Can you get the 660 kit and an 880 motor and swap that in?


----------



## Ozhoo

schmauster said:


> Can you get the 660 kit and an 880 motor and swap that in?



I just spit my peanuts out


----------



## schmauster

I'll take that as a no? 

Different case?


----------



## Johnnybar

schmauster said:


> Can you get the 660 kit and an 880 motor and swap that in?


880=122cc 660BB=99cc If only I could have a 17 lb 660BB122!


----------



## Johnnybar

Mattyo said:


> in your rubber kit, can you close up on the smaller parts and get a pic....
> 
> there are 2 or 3 pieces I can't figure out



Added several...detail on flat black rubber is tough. Also added a shroud piece I missed earlier.


----------



## cedarhollow

I saw all the postings about shipping and delays and such. I have brother works a lot in asia and india with all kinds of companies and institutions and things are certainly different over there and one thing for sure is that once the overseas companies get the US dollars flowing in they want to do what it takes to keep customers and gain more. they are getting better at making quality stuff like a car called apple or something like that that is kinda like a chinese honda. They can change tooling, molds castings , whole factories, whatever super quick and there are huge factories, millions of square feet they want to keep busy. as well as shoddy slum industrial areas where a whole community will do one thing like recycle electronics and melt the gold off the contacts from trash electronic stuff or recycle rubber or copper or whatever. They have holidays where everything stops for a week at a time. I don't know specifics but that is some of what I do know. Its kinda like when I was a kid cheap junky jap crap was everywhere but by the 90's the honda was one of the most reliable and economical cars in the world. well kinda like the same thing is happening all throughout asia and china has what a billion people who all want cars and middle class stuff. I think paypal has cured a lot of the problems of getting ripped off when placing an order. I know when I placed an order with hutzl and it went to paypal for payment that was a good thing, if everything is wrong or I never get a package I can file claim and get my $ back, I know I can't afford to lose $200+ I sent them for a saw kit.


----------



## Johnnybar

I'll rely on you gents to tell me if I'm missing 660 parts since I didn't notice any obvious omissions but, Huztl did miss packing a spare MS290/390 muffler I planned to mod. They also replaced M8X1 flange nuts for 290/390 flywheels with standard nuts and no lock washers. Not too sure that's an acceptable way to anchor a flywheel! 

Also just noticed that the spur to rim upgrade parts for the 290/390 don't jive:


----------



## Wood Chopper

Mattyo said:


> No experience with this ... but this has been very popular because MM worked over the design
> 
> http://www.hlsproparts.com/Stihl-066-MS660-cylinder-kit-54mm-p/cp30066.htm?Click=48376



I went this route. I'll report once she is up and running. I should have everything I need and organized by early next week and start putting her all together. Waiting on a few OEM bits


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Johnnybar

cedarhollow said:


> I saw all the postings about shipping and delays and such. I have brother works a lot in asia and india with all kinds of companies and institutions and things are certainly different over there and one thing for sure is that once the overseas companies get the US dollars flowing in they want to do what it takes to keep customers and gain more. they are getting better at making quality stuff like a car called apple or something like that that is kinda like a chinese honda. They can change tooling, molds castings , whole factories, whatever super quick and there are huge factories, millions of square feet they want to keep busy. as well as shoddy slum industrial areas where a whole community will do one thing like recycle electronics and melt the gold off the contacts from trash electronic stuff or recycle rubber or copper or whatever. They have holidays where everything stops for a week at a time. I don't know specifics but that is some of what I do know. Its kinda like when I was a kid cheap junky jap crap was everywhere but by the 90's the honda was one of the most reliable and economical cars in the world. well kinda like the same thing is happening all throughout asia and china has what a billion people who all want cars and middle class stuff. I think paypal has cured a lot of the problems of getting ripped off when placing an order. I know when I placed an order with hutzl and it went to paypal for payment that was a good thing, if everything is wrong or I never get a package I can file claim and get my $ back, I know I can't afford to lose $200+ I sent them for a saw kit.


Most any plastic allows reversal of charges for non delivery. My order took about 2 weeks. Others had 3-4 week delivery times...some of them likely ordered during Chinese New Year. Don't remember recent complaints of non-delivery so patience will pay off.


----------



## Johnnybar

Wood Chopper said:


> I went this route. I'll report once she is up and running. I should have everything I need and organized by early next week and start putting her all together. Waiting on a few OEM bits
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm going Huztl stock to see how she performs. Of course any known issues during build will either get some "baling wire" mods or OEM to circumvent early failure. Thinking that stiff oil tube better loosen up or else! lol Might add a nut as a pickup nipple locking collar in order to add some weight or a piece of brass bushing that will snug over the tubing at the barb.


----------



## Johnnybar

I don't see that my kit has the winter summer plate...does Huztl do it differently?


----------



## Wood Chopper

Johnnybar said:


> I'm going Huztl stock to see how she performs. Of course any known issues during build will either get some "baling wire" mods or OEM to circumvent early failure. Thinking that stiff oil tube better loosen up or else! lol Might add a nut as a pickup nipple locking collar in order to add some weight or a piece of brass bushing that will snug over the tubing at the barb.



Good idea. Once I get this one done I think I'm gonna build at least one more 660 and then just use the standard hutzl 54mm. The one that came with the kit wasn't too bad just needs to be cleaned up a little bit definitely one of the better ones I've seen so far from everyone else. My Old man doesn't realize it yet but he needs one of these. Lol. He loves his 310/390 that I upgraded for him. but I can't wait to see his face with a 90 cc. in his hand. Even if he uses it once in a while. I showed him Davhul's vid of it noodling. I think my old man got a little excited. [emoji23][emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Ozhoo

Johnnybar said:


> ...does Huztl do it differently?



Now that, is the right question!


----------



## Wood Chopper

Johnnybar said:


> I don't see that my kit has the winter summer plate...does Huztl do it differently?



I have not opened up every single little package because I don't want to get it all over the place but now that you say It i don't see it either I thought they were including it after a while. ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Ozhoo

No they don't include it. It's been an issue of discussion since way back in 16'.


----------



## Johnnybar

No heat shield shipped....repeat issue others have had.


----------



## Mattyo

Ok.....thanks for pix. That line of small rubber parts. To the right is a tiny o ring. Left of that is some funky part.....and further left is one that looks like you can stick a flat blade in it. 3 parts I can't figure.....going nuts here....what are they?


----------



## Mattyo

Heat shield is included ...hyway kit

http://www.hlsproparts.com/Stihl-066-MS660-gasket-set-p/h40660.htm?Click=48376


----------



## Mattyo

Back to the rubber. ..

Bottom pic..
To the left of the chainbrake mainspring cover is a heavy o ring.... what is it for?


----------



## cedarhollow

The hyway kit looks like complete gaskets and seals. I think it was on the farmtec sight that I saw some heat sheilds for like 10 cents or something like that but you have to get 10 at a time. I need one for 440 build. and have not got the 660 hutzl kit yet. The one that was on the dead 440 was like aluminum duct tape under the muffler but the oem pats is a sheild or aluminum plate with exhaust port cut out. are there two types?


----------



## Johnnybar

Mattyo said:


> my m4 bolts for holding the oiler/clutch cover on were missing...


I'll grab a small part organizer and get the bolts/nuts opened up for a closer look. Pics to follow.


----------



## Mattyo

Go through my vid and make a list from that of the bolts you need. 

I got all the bolts correct in the vid...but I know I missed a few rubber pieces....hope someone can help with that


----------



## Ozhoo

Mattyo said:


> Back to the rubber. ..
> 
> Bottom pic..
> To the left of the chainbrake mainspring cover is a heavy o ring.... what is it for?



That's a spare for the rubber ring at the front of the tank housing. Part of the av system


----------



## Mattyo

I was thinking that, but it didn't look quite right... ok, good enough. 

How about the tiny o ring? is that just a spare for the chain tensioner?

The odd looking piece to the left of the o-ring in the above pic? no idea on that

The piece that looks like a flatblade can fit in it?


----------



## Ozhoo

You got it, tiny dancer o-ring goes on the post under the tensioner spur


----------



## Johnnybar

Johnnybar said:


> I'll rely on you gents to tell me if I'm missing 660 parts since I didn't notice any obvious omissions but, Huztl did miss packing a spare MS290/390 muffler I planned to mod. They also replaced M8X1 flange nuts for 290/390 flywheels with standard nuts and no lock washers. Not too sure that's an acceptable way to anchor a flywheel!
> 
> Also just noticed that the spur to rim upgrade parts for the 290/390 don't jive:
> 
> View attachment 561423
> View attachment 561424
> View attachment 561425


Bearing is 10x13x10 which I believe is correct for 290/390 series. Small spline drum is 16mm ID...wrong for that series or is a bushing required? Drum labeled as 034 036 MS360 1125 007 1041. Huztl online catalog listing description is: 3/8 -7 Chainsaw Sprocket Clutch Drum For Stihl 029 039 MS290 MS310 MS390 034 036 MS360 Chainsaw 1125 007 1041 Item NO:J36019
What is my issue here? Missing item between bearing and drum? Wrong drum shipped? Huztl has it wrong on assuming 360 and 390 rim drums are the same size?


----------



## Mattyo

So it's an extra....ok. 

Now I just gotta figure out the other two.


----------



## Antarctica

Johnnybar said:


> full machine shop, mill, lathe, etc... barely room to walk through the shop!



Boy do I know what that's like - VMC, 2 CNC lathes, manual mill and manual lathe, phase converter and a small compressor all on a 20x20 pad...


----------



## davhul

Johnnybar said:


> I'm going Huztl stock to see how she performs. Of course any known issues during build will either get some "baling wire" mods or OEM to circumvent early failure. Thinking that stiff oil tube better loosen up or else! lol Might add a nut as a pickup nipple locking collar in order to add some weight or a piece of brass bushing that will snug over the tubing at the barb.



On my last one I'm running all huztl except: chain adjuster, winter shutter, fuel hose to carb, clutch springs, elaso start, crank seals, fuel and oil caps, wrist pin bearing, high flow oil pump adjuster " for 36" bar", exhaust gasket. I used dirko for the base gasket. And used the huztl rings. Plugged decomp. And bar nuts. I could be forgetting something.


----------



## Antarctica

davhul said:


> On my #2 kit I had to take alittle off the piston skirt. It was slightly scraping the counter weights.



I ran across a post about this or something similar early on when I first started learning about and looking into the 660 kit, and haven't been able to find that information again since - thanks for this.

What issues should I be looking for regarding piston clearance against the crank and or crank case - just contacting the counterweights? Are there other potential issues folks have found?

BTW - My new (tapped) case half was in new your yesterday, so hopefully things will start moving again...


----------



## Johnnybar

Mattyo said:


> I was thinking that, but it didn't look quite right... ok, good enough.
> 
> How about the tiny o ring? is that just a spare for the chain tensioner?
> 
> The odd looking piece to the left of the o-ring in the above pic? no idea on that
> 
> The piece that looks like a flatblade can fit in it?


Flat blade piece is the wiring grommet I believe.


----------



## Johnnybar

Here's an online parts list/diagrahm that will help with all the misc tidbits:
https://www.manualowl.com/m/Stihl/MS-660-R-STIHL-Magnum/Manual/415953


----------



## Ozhoo

Antarctica said:


> What issues should I be looking for regarding piston clearance against the crank and or crank case - just contacting the counterweights? Are there other potential issues folks have found?



At bottom dead center the inside of the piston skirt may contact the crank counterweight. You'll see that it's been clearanced. Sometime it's not clearanced enough.
Just rotate the engine bay hand and you'll feel if it hit at BDC.


----------



## davhul

Antarctica said:


> I ran across a post about this or something similar early on when I first started learning about and looking into the 660 kit, and haven't been able to find that information again since - thanks for this.
> 
> What issues should I be looking for regarding piston clearance against the crank and or crank case - just contacting the counterweights? Are there other potential issues folks have found?
> 
> BTW - My new (tapped) case half was in new your yesterday, so hopefully things will start moving again...



Mine was only lightly scraping the counter weight. I noticed when checking my squish. At first I took to much off the piston and had some free port. I had a spare piston and I didn't want freeport so I took just enough off to not hit and have no Freeport. I didn't measure how much I took off. Maybe .030-.040


----------



## Johnnybar

Johnnybar said:


> Here's an online parts list/diagrahm that will help with all the misc tidbits:
> https://www.manualowl.com/m/Stihl/MS-660-R-STIHL-Magnum/Manual/415953


I noticed that it shows an AUS oil pump piston/control bolt and a unspecified version on pages 8-9. Is one of them high output?


----------



## davhul

Is it part # 1128 647 4802 
That's the high output


----------



## Johnnybar

davhul said:


> Is it part # 1128 647 4802


This is the high output control bolt? Those Aussies always get the good stuff!


----------



## Johnnybar

Does it require being paired with the AUS version pump piston 1122 647 0602 ?


----------



## Antarctica

davhul said:


> Mine was only lightly scraping the counter weight. I noticed when checking my squish. At first I took to much off the piston and had some free port. I had a spare piston and I didn't want freeport so I took just enough off to not hit and have no Freeport. I didn't measure how much I took off. Maybe .030-.040



Great info - Thanks.


----------



## Mattyo

Johnnybar said:


> Here's an online parts list/diagrahm that will help with all the misc tidbits:
> https://www.manualowl.com/m/Stihl/MS-660-R-STIHL-Magnum/Manual/415953



OK.... I think I have it NAILED

there are TWO wire grommets. one that looks like a flat blade screwdriver would fit in it: 0000 989 0812
one that looks like a rubber bushing: 1125 084 8900 (which I think I guessed correctly)
next is a "hand guard bushing" 1125 084 8900 ...this one DOES go in place of that metal "bell" piece on the flywheel side of the handguard... BUT I was missing 1124-792-5500 which is a brass piece...this confused me. ...this brass piece was not in the kit. 
that little o-ring is extra and goes in the chain tensioner mechanism
AND that pesky odd looking one is 1125 647 7002 for the oiler...another extra


----------



## davhul

Johnnybar said:


> Does it require being paired with the AUS version pump piston 1122 647 0602 ?



No the only difference is the small turned down piece at the end is smaller. Allowing the pump rod to move over more. I may grind the end smaller on the next one. It's offset


----------



## Mattyo

no pressure Davhul... but... a vid on that mod would be nice


----------



## davhul

The 660 I have now has the upgraded bolt. But I will definitely do it on my next one.


----------



## Ozhoo

Antarctica said:


> Great info - Thanks.



If it hits, you only need to clearance the inside edge of the skirt over the counterweights.


----------



## davhul

Mattyo said:


> part 4
> 
> addendum is coming




Are you going to make a running and tuning vid? We like to see running vids. Our buddy in Russia has a good one in the field


----------



## davhul

Ozhoo said:


> If it hits, you only need to clearance the inside edge of the skirt over the counterweights.
> View attachment 561547



If it's not hitting to bad I spun mine over with the rope and seen where it was hitting.


----------



## ckelp

Ozhoo said:


> If it hits, you only need to clearance the inside edge of the skirt over the counterweights.
> View attachment 561547


that what i thought as i was standing there thinking about it, a little file action and there you go..


----------



## Johnnybar

Johnnybar said:


> I'll grab a small part organizer and get the bolts/nuts opened up for a closer look. Pics to follow.


----------



## ckelp

is it just me or some of huztl's prices going though the roof?
it seems like the case splitter is now $75 with free shipping and when i made my order it was $35 plus about $10 for shipping.
same thing with the mills.


----------



## Antarctica

Pretty sure that case splitter was $59 last week with free shipping...


----------



## cedarhollow

Oh but how they have learned about capitalism , It seems they have limited time specials that they rotate though the inventory. prices overall are still 10-20% of OEM retail, I just paid $100+ for an oem 193 P&C , got P&C's for 180 and 192 from hertzl for less than $20+shipping. I'm willing to try it out beig sure to clean up all cylinder ports before assembly


----------



## Johnnybar

Antarctica said:


> Pretty sure that case splitter was $59 last week with free shipping...


They have flash sales daily with prices changing as the sales quota is met it appears. The splitter was $22+shipping on sale and the number of days on sale did not prove to be correct as the price went up after a day or two iirc. I bought their Holzforma 36" chainsaw mill for $59+s = ~$79 total and it jumped shortly after I bought mine to $129 delivered even though there was several days left on the original $59 sale. Lesson here is place your order quick and checkout when you find a super deal as it is guaranteed not to last.


----------



## Johnnybar

Perfect example: 660 short block is $57+shipping Case,crank,cyl,piston, some of the AV looks to be installed, plug, comp release, likely oil tube, crank bearings/seals, ...jump while the fire is hot!


----------



## Antarctica

Johnnybar said:


> They have flash sales daily with prices changing as the sales quota is met it appears. The splitter was $22+shipping on sale and the number of days on sale did not prove to be correct as the price went up after a day or two iirc. I bought their Holzforma 36" chainsaw mill for $59+s = ~$79 total and it jumped shortly after I bought mine to $129 delivered even though there was several days left on the original $59 sale. Lesson here is place your order quick and checkout when you find a super deal as it is guaranteed not to last.



Good to know. I thought about the mill $129, but now its $169.


----------



## Al J.

So I have my kit completed. Saw started in 4 pulls. Need to tune it once I pick up a chain. I was able to pick up a 28 Rollomatic ES brand new in packaging from my local CL for $30. I do have one issue. When the saw is not running, the clutch drum can by spun by hand freely. I know you shouldn't make it a habit of running the saw without a load on it. However, once I have had it running, the clutch spins. When off, the clutch then shows some resistance when trying to turn by hand. It is not enough resistance to turn the clutch, and you can pull the started rope with the chain brake on. This may seat itself once there is a chain on it with tension. Might try a different clutch drum if there is no change. Any ideas? I will try to upload a finished picture. Al


----------



## Al J.




----------



## Johnnybar

Al J. said:


> So I have my kit completed. Saw started in 4 pulls. Need to tune it once I pick up a chain. I was able to pick up a 28 Rollomatic ES brand new in packaging from my local CL for $30. I do have one issue. When the saw is not running, the clutch drum can by spun by hand freely. I know you shouldn't make it a habit of running the saw without a load on it. However, once I have had it running, the clutch spins. When off, the clutch then shows some resistance when trying to turn by hand. It is not enough resistance to turn the clutch, and you can pull the started rope with the chain brake on. This may seat itself once there is a chain on it with tension. Might try a different clutch drum if there is no change. Any ideas? I will try to upload a finished picture. Al


Either the clutch segments are not returning to idle position properly or the brake band is dragging on the drum....my guesses anyway. Did you lube the clutch bearing?


----------



## Johnnybar

Johnnybar said:


> Either the clutch segments are not returning to idle position properly or the brake band is dragging on the drum....my guesses anyway. Did you lube the clutch bearing?


The chain brake holds the drum so engage it and if it is the clutch dragging you can tell by removing the plug and slowly turning it over with the pull cord or manually turning the flywheel. Also make sure it is not the magneto shifting and dragging...while you have starter cover is off listen closely to that side of the powerhead when turning...also look for scoring on the OD of the flywheel.


----------



## davhul

How about that washer under the clutch. If it's upside down it may cause some resistance


----------



## Al J.

Does the raised center section of the inside washer go toward the clutch, or the oil pump? Right now I have it pointed toward the oil pump.


----------



## Al J.

I may have answered my own question. Pulled up an oem washer online and the humped side says "TOP". I will flip it an see how it is.


----------



## davhul

Yep. Was about to answer.


----------



## Al J.

Thanks!


----------



## Johnnybar

Al J. said:


> Does the raised center section of the inside washer go toward the clutch, or the oil pump? Right now I have it pointed toward the oil pump.


The E clip sets in the cupped side of the smaller outer washer. Factory inner cover washers are marker TOP to show the side that faces out...orient your unmarked one the same.


----------



## Johnnybar

Davhul, has that thing been eating railroad ties? lol


----------



## davhul

I know that thing was bad. It was on a 461 I was sharping. I cleaned it in the parts washer.


----------



## Johnnybar

Al J. said:


> Thanks!


Make sure the clutch has the raised nut pointing out.


----------



## ckelp

Johnnybar said:


> Davhul, has that thing been eating railroad ties? lol


it could be worse, it could be dirt and bits of pedafile in there 
just tell me that your not using used motor oil as bar oil


----------



## davhul

That wasn't my saw. I was sharping it and pulled the clutch to take a pic


----------



## ckelp

davhul said:


> That wasn't my saw. I was sharping it and pulled the clutch to take a pic


don't lie, every time you lie a baby gets punched in the face


----------



## davhul

Lol. I love when people use gear oil as bar oil. There's the 440 in question


----------



## Johnnybar

Does the ebay seller norcalchainsaw visit the forum? I see he sells a steady stream of hybrid MS660's. Anyone know who he is so I can get in contact with him away from ebay?


----------



## Frogfarmer

Johnnybar said:


> Bearing is 10x13x10 which I believe is correct for 290/390 series. Small spline drum is 16mm ID...wrong for that series or is a bushing required? Drum labeled as 034 036 MS360 1125 007 1041. Huztl online catalog listing description is: 3/8 -7 Chainsaw Sprocket Clutch Drum For Stihl 029 039 MS290 MS310 MS390 034 036 MS360 Chainsaw 1125 007 1041 Item NO:J36019
> What is my issue here? Missing item between bearing and drum? Wrong drum shipped? Huztl has it wrong on assuming 360 and 390 rim drums are the same size?



360 390 drums are the same. The ones you were supplied are the large bearing style and in my opinion much better. Uses the larger bearing from the 044 class saws.


----------



## Johnnybar

Frogfarmer said:


> 360 390 drums are the same. The ones you were supplied are the large bearing style and in my opinion much better. Uses the larger bearing from the 044 class saws.


Unfortunately they do not state the bearing size in their listing. They don't even state if the drum is small 7 or std 7 spline let alone the ID on it either. So they are shipping 10x13x10 bearings when they should be shipping 10x16x13 if they only stock 16mm ID drums. That's the 660 size bearing so I have several in stock. I'll check it out.


----------



## Frogfarmer

Looks like that's what you got. I have a couple ordered and hope I get the right bearing. Time will tell.


----------



## Frogfarmer

Johnnybar said:


> The E clip sets in the cupped side of the smaller outer washer. Factory inner cover washers are marker TOP to show the side that faces out...orient your unmarked one the same.
> 
> View attachment 561598



Some of the inner scatter shield washers are stamped wrong and unusable without modification. The outer lip is facing the wrong direction.


----------



## Johnnybar

Johnnybar said:


> Unfortunately they do not state the bearing size in their listing. They don't even state if the drum is small 7 or std 7 spline let alone the ID on it either. So they are shipping 10x13x10 bearings when they should be shipping 10x16x13 if they only stock 16mm ID drums. That's the 660 size bearing so I have several in stock. I'll check it out.





Frogfarmer said:


> 360 390 drums are the same. The ones you were supplied are the large bearing style and in my opinion much better. Uses the larger bearing from the 044 class saws.


Unfortunately it is a standard 7 spline drum. I would guess 16mm ID has to be standard spline. It will not accept .325-7 rims that have the small 7 spline. Things would be so much easier on the Huztl site if they would list detailed specs. Bailey's gets it right with their ORF 34162X listing...all the specs are there to make an educated decision.


----------



## Al J.

I flipped the washer and everything is straightened out now.


----------



## Johnnybar

Frogfarmer said:


> 360 390 drums are the same. The ones you were supplied are the large bearing style and in my opinion much better. Uses the larger bearing from the 044 class saws.


Maybe better for bearing longevity but the 10x13x10 bearings are only a buck each and that smaller size ID on the drum allows .325-7 and 3/8-7 rims to accommodate either chain...which is my main expense other than fluids and Ibuprofen!...lol I just bought a near full roll of .325 .063 Carlton chisel for $0.79/ft delivered and would like to use it on my mid cc saws. So, off to sorting this drum thing out with Huztl.


----------



## davhul

What was happening was the clutch was pushing on the washer and pressure against the worm gear causing the drum to spin.


----------



## ckelp

So if anyone is wondering, the next "parts kit saw" will be an 070 almost tempting..


----------



## Ms290man

ckelp said:


> So if anyone is wondering, the next "parts kit saw" will be an 070 almost tempting..



Date of release?


----------



## tbohn

Ms290man said:


> Date of release?


I think the Huztl 070 will be my next kit saw if the price is right.


----------



## Johnnybar

Ms290man said:


> Date of release?


I'm good with the 660. I hear the 070 is slow and torquey for super long bars or a fun saw maybe.


----------



## ckelp

They did not say just that's the next kit.
Anything less then a 34-36" bar the 660 will eat it's lunch.
Unless it's in the sub , 150 range I'll let it be, I got a real 660 that's yellow that will pull a 42" bar.
My next big thing from them will be a mill. I got a 28" dia pine that's comeing down and I want to make a table out of it


----------



## blsnelling

AM 070s have been around for several years.


----------



## ckelp

yes, they have been, just a real pain to get here in the states. 
unlike mcbob where he can buy them in bulk with no issues.


----------



## Johnnybar

blsnelling said:


> AM 070s have been around for several years.


Yep, just haven't seen one kitted up like Huztl is doing. If the specs I'm finding are close, at 6hp/7,000rpm/25-26 lbs, then for me, it is a collector/play saw and a second 660 will ship to Oklahoma long before an 070 will.


----------



## Kyler Monares

After a long Hiatus I'm back. 361 and 440 kit should be here any day now. I have a lot to catch up on with this thread!


----------



## Johnnybar

Kyler Monares said:


> After a long Hiatus I'm back. 361 and 440 kit should be here any day now. I have a lot to catch up on with this thread!



Yes Kyler...I think we have subconsciously decided to try and make this the longest saw thread.


----------



## Kyler Monares

2294 replies is nothing to scoff at!!!


----------



## ckelp

i'm wondering if anyone else is building very good compression on there saw too, i'm currently in the 205psi neighbourhood on less then a tank of fuel


----------



## blsnelling

ckelp said:


> i'm wondering if anyone else is building very good compression on there saw too, i'm currently in the 205psi neighbourhood on less then a tank of fuel


What did you do for mods?


----------



## ckelp

cut the squish to .025" and cleaned the flash out of the ports


----------



## blsnelling

I don't see that kind of compression out of a 660 with a cut squishband.


----------



## ckelp

i tested it with my matco compression tester, and it hurts like hell if you don't commit to pulling the cord. and that's with the comp release on


----------



## davhul

2 of mine had 165psi without the gasket. .023 squish.


----------



## Johnnybar

blsnelling said:


> I don't see that kind of compression out of a 660 with a cut squishband.


I'm going to have to test mine now...maybe that will explain my hand after only 3 or 4 starts. I did a no gasket jug at .020" squish.


----------



## Johnnybar

Pretty obvious why they came up with elasto handles.


----------



## BuckthornBonnie

ckelp said:


> i tested it with my matco compression tester, and it hurts like hell if you don't commit to pulling the cord. and that's with the comp release on


What rings?


----------



## ckelp

Chinesum rings


----------



## Ozhoo

ckelp said:


> Chinesum rings



I heard that if you leave one out that it'll run like a Husky


----------



## schmauster

Johnny.. You sure those blisters aren't from sleeping on the couch after buying a new saw? Lol

Maybe a larger starting handle would help


----------



## Johnnybar

schmauster said:


> Johnny.. You sure those blisters aren't from sleeping on the couch after buying a new saw? Lol
> 
> Maybe a larger starting handle would help


That is a 100% scratch built by yours truly while sleeping on the couch saw I'll have you know!  Big handle already but not elasto...so gloves from now on.


----------



## Johnnybar

Johnnybar said:


> No heat shield shipped....repeat issue others have had.


Huztl is sending a few bushings, spline screws, heat foil x2, etc that was missing from the kit + replacing a 360 drum they sent instead of a 290/390 drum. Took a few emails back and forth on the drum but no hassle on the other items other than the delay.


----------



## ckelp




----------



## Bedford T

I got word today they have modified the case enough to solve the chain adjuster problem. They found Davhul's fix informative and made the adjustment so it will no longer be needed long term.


----------



## Johnnybar

Bedford T said:


> I got word today they have modified the case enough to solve the chain adjuster problem. They found Davhul's fix informative and made the adjustment so it will no longer be needed long term.


My Feb 13 order date kit's adjuster works as designed...actually was a little snug where the adjuster pin "L" bracket travels along the groove on the threaded shaft. A flat jewelers file fixed that and now works fine.


----------



## Dieseldash

Johnnybar said:


> My Feb 13 order date kit's adjuster works as designed...actually was a little snug where the adjuster pin "L" bracket travels along the groove on the threaded shaft. A flat jewelers file fixed that and now works fine.



I ordered mine the beginning of December and the adjuster fit tight. Filled up the gear box with white lithium grease and worked the gears back and forth a couple of dozen times and it feels good to go.....works like it was originally designed.


----------



## Johnnybar

ckelp said:


>



Rectangle slotted round grommet is for the kill switch to coil wires iirc. Stamp "Your" SN on it.


----------



## ckelp

davhul said:


> 2 of mine had 165psi without the gasket. .023 squish.



mine was hitting the jug at TDC, i had to make room plus my spark plug is almost hitting the piston.


Ozhoo said:


> I heard that if you leave one out that it'll run like a Husky


i heard if you take out both rings it will have the same horsepower as a ford 6.0L with a clogged oil cooler.


Johnnybar said:


> Rectangle slotted round grommet is for the kill switch to coil wires iirc. Stamp "Your" SN on it.


i wonder if "I have a potty mouth" is taken?


----------



## Ozhoo

ckelp said:


> i heard if you take out both rings it will have the same horsepower as a ford 6.0L with a clogged oil cooler.



Now that's just plain mean


----------



## ckelp

yes, yes it is.. hahahahaha


----------



## TPA

Any of you try out their chain?


----------



## Johnnybar

TPA said:


> Any of you try out their chain?


Looked into the cost and shipping added $37.50 to the cost of a 25' roll. That makes delivered cost a little over $79 or $3.17/ft so I passed on it.


----------



## TPA

Silly me. I actually thought that someone could get a shipping break if the chain was included with a saw purchase.


----------



## Bedford T

I got to really use my MS660 today. I had some trouble with carbs and the one that came with the kit was an issue but I repurchased one and later got a larger jet for it. I recently got the 36 Inch Holzfforma Portable Chainsaw Mill @ http://www.huztl.net/36-Inch-Holzff...-Milling-From-14-to-36-Guide-Bar-p228061.html and put the two to work together and wow. What a pair. I think the 070 will be a better full time permanent milling pal but the FarmerTec MS660 slap did the trick. I got 4 big thick 2 1/4" slabs off one end of the log, the chainsaw had zero issues. The saw is very capable and I think the carb jet size increase was helpful here. The mill is complete and worth ever cent. I discovered that if you buy the larger mill you can also find the shorter rails and bar and with those pieces have the capability of having two mill sizes with a much smaller overall cost. Also, I saw they now have chainsaw files for sale by the dozen here is one size available http://www.huztl.net/1-Pack-12PCS-5...n-Files-Gold-Color-Free-Shipping-p402198.html I have been wanting to learn to sharpen my own chain and they recently put this guide up for sale. I wonder if that would be helpful to a novice
http://www.huztl.net/Holzfforma-Bar...-Chainsaw-Saw-Chain-Filing-Guide-p390589.html Stihl has an all in one hand filing system I am also looking at.

I did a really short video. I need a rail system before I can go crazy with it.


----------



## Johnnybar

Your Holz' 36" mill is adjustable to any bar from 10" up to 42" using the mill's nose guard and much longer with the guard off. Why do you feel you need shorter rails when you can just loosen the cross arms and slide them to any position desired? Round files are available in the USA for the same price range shipped and they are brands with very good reviews so consider them also. Their files do look interesting though....appears to be TiN coated.


----------



## Bedford T

A shorter one would be lighter and shorter of course.

Good info on the files you can usually find something cheaper if you work at it. The PFERD brand I looked at came 6 to a box for 20$ these came 12 to a box for 16 shipped.
They were a new addition to a website I buy from and stuck me as a potential deal. I need more information before I choose. Never sharpen a chain to date look forward to it. I am using the more frequently and me paying 7$ a pop to have it done and two road trips is a good incentive to learn.


----------



## Johnnybar

I just bought a dz 7/32" SaveEdge files for $16.95 shipped on ebay. Lots of good reviews on them.


----------



## Bedford T

[emoji106]


----------



## Johnnybar

Bedford T said:


> A shorter one would be lighter and shorter of course.
> 
> Good info on the files you can usually find something cheaper if you work at it. The PFERD brand I looked at came 6 to a box for 20$ these came 12 to a box for 16 shipped.
> They were a new addition to a website I buy from and stuck me as a potential deal. I need more information before I choose. Never sharpen a chain to date look forward to it. I am using the more frequently and me paying 7$ a pop to have it done and two road trips is a good incentive to learn.


You would only be saving a very small amount of weight with a 24" mill (- 2' of light aluminum rail) as all the other parts are identical and the mill spends 99% of the time, when in use, resting on the log. Grab another if the bug has bitten but don't be disappointed with it being nearly the same weight when it arrives.


----------



## Johnnybar

Hey Bedford,
Just checked and there are Chinese files for $12 shipped on ebay if you want to try them out...but they are not TiN coated.


----------



## Bedford T

Dude I was just talking. Not commiting to marriage or dismissing your sound advice.

A 24" mill is a foot shorter and sometimes that could matter. The fact that is possible to have an option adds that versatility to the tool. I think granberg sells the 24" for 50$.

I used a 24" bar on it and I did not like the end not being supported in a manner I found satisfying. I could see the rails toe in slightly because the support was on the other side.

So there are sound reasons for having a longer and a shorter setup for the bar length even though it's adjustable and even better to have one with the option to go 24, 36. They even have a 30" and of course beyond but these lengths can support the material supplied with this mill


----------



## Johnnybar

Bedford T said:


> Dude I was just talking. Not commiting to marriage or dismissing your sound advice.
> 
> A 24" mill is a foot shorter and sometimes that could matter. The fact that is possible to have an option adds that versatility to the tool. I think granberg sells the 24" for 50$.
> 
> I used a 24" bar on it and I did not like the end not being supported in a manner I found satisfying. I could see the rails toe in slightly because the support was on the other side.
> 
> So there are sound reasons for having a longer and a shorter setup for the bar length even though it's adjustable and even better to have one with the option to go 24, 36. They even have a 30" and of course beyond but these lengths can support the material supplied with this mill


Rest easy friend...just sharing info gathered while surfing the net and from personal experience with my 36" mill.


----------



## Bearhawk

Hi Bedford,
I watched your video using the chainsaw mill. I used an Alaskan Sawmill back in the 90's. You also should get, if I recall correctly, a ripping chain. It's a chain designed to cut with the grain and it will fly through that. It appears you are using a normal chainsaw chain that is made to cut across the grain not with the grain. Makes a huge difference.


----------



## blsnelling

Bedford T said:


> I think the carb jet size increase was helpful here.


Where you not able to tune it rich enough with the stock jet?


----------



## Bedford T

Friends, you guys missed the most telling bit in that very short 19+ sec video. The bar breaking through wood

In a 20 sec video the most you can get out of it is ...Look here's a guy using 660 on a saw mill. But since you imagined stuff ...And missed the only potential thing that have been questionable the bar nose coming to the surface, but that was on purpose as an old cut was being evened up for a subsequent runs. Milling through increasingly thinning wood is not natural. Winding up with a flat surface was realised.

And a discussion about chain strategy would be like talking about brands of oil, I am pleased with the video showing a hint of what it's like to build a ms660 that I tuned and attached to a mill that I assembled and put to use to fill my need producing some planks. It was awesome. Looking forward to more and more. Wish you could have been there.


----------



## Bedford T

blsnelling said:


> Where you not able to tune it rich enough with the stock jet?


Some where here this exact conversation has been had but yes sir I think it made a difference. Real pleased.


----------



## blsnelling

Tuned is tuned. The only thing you did was change the position the H needle is in when it's tuned. It's called the Placebo Effect.

Concerning your video... You're using the mill backwards, cutting with the top of the bar. You're also lifting the mill off the surface of the wood, making for a very poor cut. Finally, rocking the saw back and forth isn't doing you any good at all.


----------



## Bedford T

Your input is always welcome.


----------



## Johnnybar

blsnelling said:


> Tuned is tuned. The only thing you did was change the position the H needle is in when it's tuned. It's called the Placebo Effect.
> 
> Concerning your video... You're using the mill backwards, cutting with the top of the bar. You're also lifting the mill off the surface of the wood, making for a very poor cut. Finally, rocking the saw back and forth isn't doing you any good at all.


Good info blsnelling. I'll add that such a short bar may create an imbalanced lever/fulcrum near the dogs...causing the 17 lb powerhead to lift the light bar and make a moderate task a real pain in the ass. If you find this the case, try taking the dogs off and snug the powerhead up close to the mill then check balance again.


----------



## Johnnybar

Bedford T said:


> Friends, you guys missed the most telling bit in that very short 19+ sec video. The bar breaking through wood
> 
> In a 20 sec video the most you can get out of it is ...Look here's a guy using 660 on a saw mill. But since you imagined stuff ...And missed the only potential thing that have been questionable the bar nose coming to the surface, but that was on purpose as an old cut was being evened up for a subsequent runs. Milling through increasingly thinning wood is not natural. Winding up with a flat surface was realised.
> 
> And a discussion about chain strategy would be like talking about brands of oil, I am pleased with the video showing a hint of what it's like to build a ms660 that I tuned and attached to a mill that I assembled and put to use to fill my need producing some planks. It was awesome. Looking forward to more and more. Wish you could have been there.



Doubt anyone missed it. Your friends here also didn't miss that other forum friends are giving pointers on how to not have that type of performance happen again. The 070 will only make your job harder...heavier, slower and more work with some setups. If you move up to much longer bars, then a good running 070 may be beneficial but I think that focusing on a correct chain for the task that is kept sharp will benefit you more.


----------



## TreeJoe

These saws are interesting and when you put one on a mill it seems to make sense, if you burn it up just make another. And putting a larger jet in one you are milling with would mean more oil being delivered seems like a good strategy. @Bedford T you made some good clear videos to help with building one. I have done it all more than once except the cases. It was good to see it done.


----------



## Johnnybar

TreeJoe said:


> These saws are interesting and when you put one on a mill it seems to make sense, if you burn it up just make another. And putting a larger jet in one you are milling with would mean more oil being delivered seems like a good strategy. @Bedford T you made some good clear videos to help with building one. I have done it all more than once except the cases. It was good to see it done.


Only way to deliver more oil to the crank bearings and other internals is to increase the oil ratio in the fuel or run with a rich condition. Larger jets only cause the needle to be turned in farther until "Tune" is reached. Larger jets are needed when you turn the needle out and never reach a rich condition...that is after eliminating other fuel starvation or lean condition causes...filter, screens, leaks, vent, etc.


----------



## TreeJoe

I know a little about it to. Have good day.


----------



## Johnnybar

Here's a steady straight push result. It would be even smoother if I didn't let up on the light pressure I was giving it before dropping the rpm's a couple times. The chain is Archer TriLink White Box semi chisel reground to 10/50/-10.


----------



## Wood Chopper

Dude that is gorgeous!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Johnnybar

Wood Chopper said:


> Dude that is gorgeous!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's the old widow maker tree I posted a few weeks back that had to be felled due to multiple lightening strikes over the last 30 yrs. It caused splits in the trunk that spalted over time. I agree that it made a beautiful result.


----------



## tbohn

Johnnybar said:


> Here's a steady straight push result. It would be even smoother if I didn't let up on the light pressure I was giving it before dropping the rpm's a couple times. The chain is Archer TriLink White Box semi chisel reground to 10/50/-10.
> 
> View attachment 565665
> View attachment 565666
> View attachment 565667
> View attachment 565668
> View attachment 565669


I was leaning away from getting a portable mill but you may have changed my mind!


----------



## Wood Chopper

Yip[emoji106]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Johnnybar

tbohn said:


> I was leaning away from getting a portable mill but you may have changed my mind!


One thing is for sure...you can't run to the lumber store and get anything like that...size or looks...no matter how much birthday money you saved up!


----------



## Wood Chopper

Almost there hopefully have time tonight to fire her off



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Johnnybar

Wood Chopper said:


> Almost there hopefully have time tonight to fire her offView attachment 565671
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Looking good! Make sure to seat that plug cable in the slot to the right in the pic before the starter cover is mounted.


----------



## Wood Chopper

Yeah thanks. I got it wrapped nicely where it supposed to be now couple things I noticed compared to my buddy 660 doesn't have the cage underneath the air filter and I didn't get a MS 660 sticker lol. 
WTF



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Bedford T

The wtf 
Looks like the insert for the air cleaner from here. Was that included?


----------



## Bedford T

That was a wild guess. You don't show the bottom


----------



## Wood Chopper

No it's oem from my friends stihl MS 660. There is foam in this one that looks like it takes up the space of the OEM piece


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Wood Chopper

Looks like I am also missing the nuts for the spikes


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## Bedford T

#5mm can get @ ace


----------



## Wood Chopper

I am almost positive I have the same leftover parts like the rest of you do I will compare a couple pictures again tonight. End it looks like I'm going to have to shave a little bit of the chain breaker bar to clear the top of the muffler


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Johnnybar

There are 3 or more different air filter setups depending on country of destination for OEM saws iirc. My kit filter had a coarse open cell foam insert inside the fiber pleated filter...no room for the baffle you showed in the pic. Here's an online parts manual:
https://www.manualowl.com/m/Stihl/MS-660-R-STIHL-Magnum/Manual/415953


----------



## Wood Chopper

Thanks Bedford. Guys I just fired this thing up and holy cow it popped on the three pulls then took about 10 more on partial choke. it won't idle right now but I can just barely feather the throttle to keep her going I can see why you guys are wanting the elasto start


Wooooohooooo[emoji122][emoji122]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Johnnybar

Wood Chopper said:


> Looks like I am also missing the nuts for the spikes
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I was short M4X12 spline screws for the clutch/brake cover and oil pump and a few M5X12's, heat foil x2, plug air boot, winter/summer slide, plus a few other odds and ends. Huztl is shipping them no charge. I went to Fastenal and got what I had to have to run the saw for $2 which included an extra set of those sizes. Fastenal is a lot cheaper than OEM.


----------



## Wood Chopper

I know I haven't posted that much but I want to say a big thank you to everyone that posted their findings and their knowledge. It's a great feeling to build something from nothing and they hear it run


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Wood Chopper

I'm using the cross cylinder with no base gasket and I can tell it's got some really good compression but I'll put the compression tester on her tomorrow and I need to find or buy a tachometer 


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----------



## Johnnybar

Wood Chopper said:


> Thanks Bedford. Guys I just fired this thing up and holy cow it popped on the three pulls then took about 10 more on partial choke. it won't idle right now but I can just barely feather the throttle to keep her going I can see why you guys are wanting the elasto start
> 
> 
> Wooooohooooo[emoji122][emoji122]
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


My Huztl/Farmertec carb ran on a little over 1 full turn out on both H & L and I always turn idle speed way up to get and keep a new one running.


----------



## Johnnybar

Wood Chopper said:


> I'm using the cross cylinder with no base gasket and I can tell it's got some really good compression but I'll put the compression tester on her tomorrow and I need to find or buy a tachometer
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


There are some phone apps that do sound tach but I can't vouch for any of them. Haven't tried one...never needed one...go for the heavy burble on a new build and use plenty of oil the first few tanks. I'm running 40:1 full syn.


----------



## Wood Chopper

Johnnybar said:


> My Huztl/Farmertec carb ran on a little over 1 full turn out on both H & L and I always turn idle speed way up to get and keep a new one running.



Yes sir just turned it up a turn and a half on the idol in it slow but she idles. My daughter just yelled at me because the garage is full of smoke she's eight years old and now I have to go finish our leprechaun trap. [emoji23] 


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## Imprzed205

Your saw looks good. Who has tanks or gallons of fuel ran through one?


----------



## Bedford T

I got 3 and my friends have them and between us we have run gallons through them. I milled 4 boards I used over a qt. I keep my no corn fuel rotated to the car after 30 days. The gas can has a paper tag that gives the date it was purchased. It's mixed in another can. All cans go on the expire date. I never go past 45 days. I actually think my kit saws will last and last. If you store it run some motomix to flush the mixed fuel and it will not mess up your carb components. I been using h1r and it's growing on me.


----------



## Johnnybar

Imprzed205 said:


> Your saw looks good. Who has tanks or gallons of fuel ran through one?


Only 2 gallons through mine. Someone mentioned 200 or 400 hrs on a AM saw but I cant remember who it was. Top ends are $25 shipped and you can OEM bearings and other items that are a PITA to replace if you are concerned about down time. My 660 is 100% stock Farmertec/Huztl, with no cylinder gasket, to see how all AM holds up when milling...but, there are jugs and mufflers on the shelf ready to mod later when stock gets boring...lol


----------



## Bedford T

I have an entire engine ready to bolt on handle if needed while milling.


----------



## Bedford T

Johnnybar said:


> Only 2 gallons through mine. Someone mentioned 200 or 400 hrs on a AM saw but I cant remember who it was.



When folks quote numbers like that they are usually associated with emission compliance not longevity and they get it confused.


----------



## Johnnybar

Bedford T said:


> When folks quote numbers like that they are usually associated with emission compliance not longevity and they get it confused.


I understand what you are saying ( it's called CARB compliance, California Air Resource Board emissions stds) but, one fellow on the forum had ran his AM saw that many hours. Just 4 hrs a day adds up pretty quick...50 days = 200 hrs run time. Here's 7 mins of run time condensed into about 2 min...enjoy.


----------



## davhul

Works good. How's the grain look? Does it need the upgraded oil control bolt


----------



## Bedford T

Good job. Something I need to get used to is letting the engine cool some before cutting it off. Someone told me a minute or two would go a long way. Looks like you were sitting and cutting.nice.


----------



## Johnnybar

davhul said:


> Works good. How's the grain look? Does it need the upgraded oil control bolt


Oil seems adequate but by no means as much as I would like for a 42" bar. I go through about half a tank of oil to each tank of gas with it tuned super rich due to still breaking in. She's spalted nicely from decades of lightening strikes and water intrusion.


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## Bedford T

Mother nature is something special and that kinda thing is proof.


----------



## Johnnybar

davhul said:


> Works good. How's the grain look? Does it need the upgraded oil control bolt


I'll likely make an auxillary oiler to put the oil where it's needed most...on the business side of the bar. The 660's oiler can more than keep up with the back side of the bar. That way when I fell some of the 5' Oaks, I'll have a oiling system for 60"+ bars ready to go. Now when is Huztl making a 880 or 3120 kit!


----------



## Blairito

TPA said:


> Any of you try out their chain?


I have the bar and chain on my ms 170, it came square filed, wondering what i should do when it gets dull, i figured its cheaper to buy another one than buy a new file
it cuts very well, and hasn't seemed to stretch.
the bar will tell in time


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## dswensen

Wood Chopper said:


> Looks like I am also missing the nuts for the spikes
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




I was too. I was missing three - two for one spike, and one for the roller chain catcher. Went to the hardware store and bought 10 of them for $0.16 each. The are the same as the carb nuts that I seem to misplace from time to time.


----------



## dswensen

Wood Chopper said:


> I am almost positive I have the same leftover parts like the rest of you do I will compare a couple pictures again tonight. End it looks like I'm going to have to shave a little bit of the chain breaker bar to clear the top of the muffler
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I was expecting to have to shave my chain brake handle too based upon what I have read here, but mine fit perfectly.

One strange thing on my 660 kit that I haven't heard elsewhere yet. The center hole (where the bearing goes) on my clutch drum needed to be a few thousandths larger in diameter to fit with the bearing on the shaft. A Dremel took care of that, but I thought it was weird. Tried OEM bearings - it was definitely a problem with the drum. It is a rim drum.


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## Bedford T

That is weird and a first as well


----------



## Wood Chopper

Almost to clean and pretty to get dirty


Naaah. She will get to eat wood tomorrow. I'll bring the other saws ..too but I at least want to start tuning it tomorrow


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Bedford T

Awesome, nice bar


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## Wood Chopper

Thanks I probably could've got a total or Oregon for a little cheaper my local steel guy who I really like had this so I bought it off him. When I bought the OEM seals in other bits for this I told him I was putting together a trashed 066. Lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Johnnybar

Blairito said:


> I have the bar and chain on my ms 170, it came square filed, wondering what i should do when it gets dull, i figured its cheaper to buy another one than buy a new file
> it cuts very well, and hasn't seemed to stretch.
> the bar will tell in time


Likely can be round filed with no issues...will just take a few strokes more than usual to get the rounded gullet.


----------



## Antarctica

Finally got some time to get my Huztl 660 together. I didn't do any pressure or vacuum testing, just put it together carefully, filled her up, gave her about 5 good tugs and YEEHAWWWW!!!

What a beast!! I know this may be old hat for most of you but the biggest saw I've ever had was a 362, and this thing felt like a YZ 80 in my hands! What a great grunty tone!

Put her to some wood and she was pretty slow but some tweaking of the high speed needle brought her up in RPM's.

I need to go read some more about tuning before I give her too much of a workout, but all signs are good.


----------



## Johnnybar

Antarctica said:


> Finally got some time to get my Huztl 660 together. I didn't do any pressure or vacuum testing, just put it together carefully, filled her up, gave her about 5 good tugs and YEEHAWWWW!!!
> 
> What a beast!! I know this may be old hat for most of you but the biggest saw I've ever had was a 362, and this thing felt like a YZ 80 in my hands! What a great grunty tone!
> 
> Put her to some wood and she was pretty slow but some tweaking of the high speed needle brought her up in RPM's.
> 
> I need to go read some more about tuning before I give her too much of a workout, but all signs are good.


Congrats!


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## Bedford T

Jb, Speaking of tuning how do you have your 660 tuned while you are milling.


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## Bedford T

Antarctica said:


> Finally got some time to get my Huztl 660 together. I didn't do any pressure or vacuum testing, just put it together carefully, filled her up, gave her about 5 good tugs and YEEHAWWWW!!!
> 
> What a beast!! I know this may be old hat for most of you but the biggest saw I've ever had was a 362, and this thing felt like a YZ 80 in my hands! What a great grunty tone!
> 
> Put her to some wood and she was pretty slow but some tweaking of the high speed needle brought her up in RPM's.
> 
> I need to go read some more about tuning before I give her too much of a workout, but all signs are good.


Maybe you could take some short cut and use some carb cleaner or something like it and spray your base gasket while it's running and see if your idle changes the testing is kinda important. It might help you detect a leak that would soon cause problems. Leaks are not rare on a new build. You got your toy now and want it to last. Just saying...


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## emanaresi

Hello guys I have lurked here on and off for a long time. I have an old (mid 80s) 028 super, and was recently given an 038 magnum (all it need was a muffler and some cleaning and TLC  

I did a little free hand slabbing with the 038 and decided I needed to get a mill and a bigger saw. So, I have a Huztl 660 kit on its way as well as their 36" mill. I am really looking forward to building this and making some nice slabs with it. We have a lot of red oak, white cedar and white pine down around the property. I have read the thread in completetion and will review it again before the kit gets here (hopefully this week, it was ordered on 3/14). I am pretty handy and have rebuilt motors and transmissions for various cars and trucks over the years. Have rebuilt and repaired several marine 2 strokes, and tinkered with small engines since I was a kid. But I am looking forward to the new experience of actually building one fresh. This is really a cool opportunity we have with this kit. I plan to let my 6 year old daughter help me where she can. I think she'll like it. 

I'll let you all know how it looks when it gets here. Thanks for putting this thread together. 

One question - Is it possible to pull the preinstalled seals and reuse them? I was hoping to pull the seals so I can be sure the bearings don't have any side load and the crank turns freely. I can probably get them at the dealer if I need to.


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## Johnnybar

Bedford T said:


> Jb, Speaking of tuning how do you have your 660 tuned while you are milling.


Listen to the video and you will hear the "Tune" much better than text can explain. Basically there's still some burble in the cut. Keeps heat down completely that way while it is still getting broken in. After a couple more gallons are through it, I'll take it to just barely running clean in the cut with no burble or only an occasional one. Cylinder/piston and exhaust temps are tremendously cooler at that state of tune.


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## Johnnybar

Bedford T said:


> When folks quote numbers like that they are usually associated with emission compliance not longevity and they get it confused.


Happened across one of the guy's posts about putting a few hrs on Chinese builds:


jd548esco72 said:


> i didn't keep a log book on it-- my guess would be about 100 hours on the husky clone --
> 
> the 440 i built a year before probably has three or four times the running-- and the cylinder still looks good in it--
> 
> the china cylinders seem to hold up "good enough" for most use-- lately i have been running 50 to one mix in both saws-- they seem to like it so far--
> 
> i wouldn't sweat how long a china made jug last too much -- their easy to swap out and cheap- to replace if they fail--
> 
> my 372 clone is a 50mm-- i have threatened to put a 52mm jug on it-- but the thing is running and pulling so well-- i dare not mess with it--
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ha wot-- the ns440 built the same way has sen lots of use--


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## Bedford T

I asked about the tune because we are really stressing our engines milling and I am looking at it with a critical eye. Using common sense I determined that I would have better fuel flow and therefore better cooling using a larger jet in the carb and I went to a .76 jet. I made mention of it and someone here swooped in and made light of it. So I wrote walbro technical support and just wanted to know if I was on the right track and it looks like I was right again. I think 32:1 or at the very least 40:1 should be used in our mix. I attached my email and his reply.


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## blsnelling

Bedford T said:


> I asked about the tune because we are really stressing our engines milling and I am looking at it with a critical eye. Using common sense I determined that I would have better fuel flow and therefore better cooling using a larger jet in the carb and I went to a .76 jet. I made mention of it and someone here swooped in and made light of it. So I wrote walbro technical support and just wanted to know if I was on the right track and it looks like I was right again. I think 32:1 or at the very least 40:1 should be used in our mix. I attached my email and his reply.


Keep ignoring us! The ONLY time the larger jet will make a difference is IF you cannot get it rich enough with the stock jet. You continue to show your COMPLETE lack of BASIC understanding of how chainsaws work, yet insist on trying to advise others! Bad information is worse than no information!


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## Bedford T

That's why I asked the carb experts, the folks that make them. Sorry if having other experts weigh in is hurtful. I included my question and thier reply. And you ignore it. I am happy I could help others get the actual facts. They are written out for you in language I know you can understand. Basic stuff.


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## mdavlee

blsnelling said:


> Keep ignoring us! The ONLY time the larger jet will make a difference is IF you cannot get it rich enough with the stock jet. You continue to show your COMPLETE lack of BASIC understanding of how chainsaws work, yet insist on trying to advise others! Bad information is worse than no information!


Using H1R could be a problem milling. I had a few saws that I couldn't get rich enough with the regular jets when using that mix.


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## blsnelling

Bedford T said:


> That's why I asked the carb experts, the folks that make them. Sorry if having other experts weigh in is hurtful. I included my question and thier reply. And you ignore it. I am happy I could help others get the actual facts. They are written out for you in language I know you can understand. Basic stuff.


As I already pointed out, you lack the basic understanding of what you're even taking about. You are a liability to this community, yet too arrogant to even know it.

BTW, that tech gave you absolutely no information or explanation at all.

I'm all ears to new information. However, you throw out advise that is contrary to what is known to be true to those with many years of experience. You have little to no experience with chainsaws, yet come in here trying to prove that which you know nothing about. Several of us have tried to politely steer you in the right direction, but you never listen. You only set out to try and prove yourself right. That's why you now get this kind of response from me.


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## blsnelling

mdavlee said:


> Using H1R could be a problem milling. I had a few saws that I couldn't get rich enough with the regular jets when using that mix.


True. That's why my very first question to him was, "Are you not able to tune the saw rich enough?".

To everyone except Bedford, here's how it works, since he cares nothing about the truth. The fuel at WOT is the sum of idle fuel (adjusted with the L needle), fuel from the fixed jet, and fuel provided by the H needle...A+B+C. ONLY if you are not able to get enough fuel at WOT is there any advantage to increasing the size of the main jet. If you are able to get enough fuel with the stock jet, the only thing a larger jet will do is to require that the H needle be set further in ("leaner"). In other words, more B will require less C for the same total fuel.


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## Bedford T

This was nothing to do with your extensive knowledge. I asked the folks who build and design the carbs. They answered me and I shared it. It seems like you are flat ingoring what the answer to my question was. They would very likely know more about how a carb works on a chainsaw than you. So you make this about me. Anyone with eyes can see the response. Bedford T was seeking a clear answer and got it. So you trash me. This seems like a tantrum a youngster might make to an adult authority, here being walbro.


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## blsnelling

Bedford T said:


> This was nothing to do with your extensive knowledge. I asked the folks who build and design the carbs. They answered me and I shared it. It seems like you are flat ingoring what the answer to my question was. They would very likely know more about how a carb works on a chainsaw than you. So you make this about me. Anyone with eyes can see the response. Bedford T was seeking a clear answer and got it. So you trash me. This seems like a tantrum a youngster might make to an adult authority, here being walbro.


No, it's not a tantrum. It's called exasperation at an arrogant and delusional narcissist that's trying to act like he knows something about which he is clueless. I provided a clear technical explanation, and the only thing you hear is that someone is disagreeing with you. Sad.


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## Bedford T

One item to note is emission standards effected the Jets size they used in building the carbs. The larger Jets went smaller like .69. So my desire to use a larger jet was an effort to improve the lubrication and therefore cool the saw more effectively.


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## Bedford T

Please read the emails Brad and stop being hateful.


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## blsnelling

Bedford T said:


> One item to note is emission standards effected the Jets size they used in building the carbs. The larger Jets went smaller like .69. So my desire to use a larger jet was an effort to improve the lubrication and therefore cool the saw more effectively.


Tuned is tuned, no matter what size fixed jet you're using. If you were able to achieve proper tune with the stock jet, a larger jet is doing NOTHING to provide additional lubrication or cooling.


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## Johnnybar

All, There are some subjects I personally would be lost on as I am sure we all could be, depending on the topic. I want to thank all of you here as well as other fellow forum members for the wealth of information you all provide...THANKS!!!!!!

Bedford, Your initial note to Salas at Walbro did not indicate whether you were able to reach a proper tune or a rich tune with the .69 jet or not. Salas assumed you were not able to get past a lean condition with the original .69 jet and provided the positive reply about the .76 jet helping your situation. Salas was not given the whole story, as was given here on the forum, about the saw being tunable with the original .69 jet. "The devil is in the details" and that statement definitely fits this situation. 

Keep on Sawing!


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## Bedford T

To help you, the subject was changing the jet size to the better lube and make cooler. So he had a the info. The email was carefully worded and it was a line of thinking on a larger carb size. But thanks for your input.


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## blsnelling

A=L needle fuel
B= Fixed jet fuel
C=H needle fuel
D= The total fuel needed for a correct tune set WOT

A+B+C= D
5+10+10=25
5+15+5=25

As in the example above, the only thing you're doing with a larger value for B is requiring a smaller value for C. You have not changed D at all.


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## blsnelling

Johnnybar said:


> All, There are some subjects I personally would be lost on as I am sure we all could be, depending on the topic. I want to thank all of you here as well as other fellow forum members for the wealth of information you all provide...THANKS!!!!!!
> 
> Bedford, Your initial note to Salas at Walbro did not indicate whether you were able to reach a proper tune or a rich tune with the .69 jet or not. Salas assumed you were not able to get past a lean condition with the original .69 jet and provided the positive reply about the .76 jet helping your situation. Salas was not given the whole story, as was given here on the forum, about the saw being tunable with the original .69 jet. "The devil is in the details" and that statement definitely fits this situation.
> 
> Keep on Sawing!


This guy gets it!


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## Bedford T

blsnelling said:


> This guy gets it!


He could not read it either


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## Bedford T

Here forward direct all technical questions to Brad instead of asking walbro.

Obviously walbro lacks the knowledge. You will be insulted if you don't consult with brad


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## blsnelling

Bedford T said:


> Here forward direct all technical questions to Brad instead of asking walbro.
> 
> Obviously walbro lacks the knowledge. You will be insulted if you don't consult with brad


Go back and read Johnny's post until you comprehend it. Until you do, this situation is futile.


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## Johnnybar

Bedford, In your email to Salas, you specifically stated, "thinking the extra fuel I could tune with would help". That statement implies previously you could not tune without the extra fuel. Please understand the fact that Salas had to assume you were too lean originally.

Make Chips Boys!


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## Bedford T

That relates to jet size...Would help me keep my engine more lubricated and cooler along with my fuel mixture...Is this a correct way of thinking.

Yes


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## Bedford T

I have started milling...The carb jet was .69 changed to .76 thinking the extra fuel I can tune with would help keep my engine ...

No where does more information come into play. 

Was that a correct way of thinking yes was the answer.


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## Johnnybar

Bedford T said:


> That relates to jet size...Would help me keep my engine more lubricated and cooler along with my fuel mixture...Is this a correct way of thinking.
> 
> Yes


"more lubricated and cooler" than what? A perfectly tuned originally jetted saw is what Salas never new about and the forum did.


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## Wood Chopper

This may not be the right time to ask but am I correct to assume that the "B" jet is tuned incrementally with the high speed screw until it's either fat or lean in the cut? Back in my KTM dirt days when it was hot and humid I decreased the main jet if it was cold and dry went a little bit bigger along with your needle clip position/taper. The idle jet you could turn the screw in or out until you ran out of low and adjustment then the jet would have to change.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TreeJoe

I read it like it says it is about the jet size. It seems to be well worded and the answer is clear. I looked up carb jet and it was just like I thought. I will speak up and say good job @beford t

"A carburetor jet is a tiny hole in the venturi, which is the narrow end of a carburetor tube. The carburetor jet is an essential component of an internal combustion engine. This portion of the carburetor is the part that is responsible for allowing fuel to be drawn into combustion chambers, also known as cylinders."

So he changed the jet size to increase the flow of fuel and the benefits that come with that. Looks like you guys are beating up on him for nothing.


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## mdavlee

If you could tune the saw to 12k or whatever it was pig rich with the original jet it don't matter how big it is now. All you did is change where the H screw sits for a certain rpm.


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## Johnnybar

99.9% to 100% of stock saws will not benefit from a jet increase and I believe that some friends here on the forum are trying to make sure the average joe that might do a google search and stop by for a read understand the details of the decision on jetting.


----------



## blsnelling

Wood Chopper said:


> This may not be the right time to ask but am I correct to assume that the "B" jet is tuned incrementally with the high speed screw until it's either fat or lean in the cut? Back in my KTM dirt days when it was hot and humid I decreased the main jet if it was cold and dry went a little bit bigger along with your needle clip position/taper. The idle jet you could turn the screw in or out until you ran out of low and adjustment then the jet would have to change.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The fixed jet in discussion here is not adjustable. The fuel from the H needle is in addition to that from fixed jet.


----------



## blsnelling

Johnnybar said:


> 99.9% to 100% of stock saws will not benefit from a jet increase and I believe that some friends here on the forum are trying to make sure the average joe that might do a google search and stop by for a read understand the details of the decision on jetting.


Exactly.


----------



## Johnnybar

Wood Chopper said:


> This may not be the right time to ask but am I correct to assume that the "B" jet is tuned incrementally with the high speed screw until it's either fat or lean in the cut? Back in my KTM dirt days when it was hot and humid I decreased the main jet if it was cold and dry went a little bit bigger along with your needle clip position/taper. The idle jet you could turn the screw in or out until you ran out of low and adjustment then the jet would have to change.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Most bike carbs operate on a sliding air valve that also variably meters fuel using a long tapered needle and can't be compared to saw carbs that have independent butterfly air control and fixed fuel delivery during operation.


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## Johnnybar

Dinner bell is ringing guys so my last word for awhile: If it will run...go make chips!


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## Mattyo

The walbro techs comment was vague at best...and seems to infer that more fuel is good for milling....not necessarily that a larger jet is the answer to more fuel. I'm with Brad...if you need more fuel....open the needle a bit. I'll take it one further. On these saws...its doubtful that you will run out of needle...therefore...no need for a larger jet.


----------



## Wood Chopper

Johnnybar said:


> Dinner bell is ringing guys so my last word for awhile: If it will run...go make chips!



I'm hangry myself. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Wood Chopper

blsnelling said:


> The fixed jet in discussion here is not adjustable. The fuel from the H needle is in addition to that from fixed jet.



Roger that. Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Bedford T

To mat I noticed the saw your 660 you built had to be sent out to make it run. The guy answered my question fully. The problem is you guys are just interested in supporting Brad's rant. You guys are more at home on the other site where you regularly attack people. In high school is was a clique, not sure what you would call this.


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## Mattyo

The saw I built wasn't for me. It was built to document how one goes together. It was shipped to Jason to be modified. ...and since he was going to be tearing it apart anyway....there was no sense in me running it. Also....that cylinder head was rough... and needed work before it was to be run reliably. 

The next 660 I will be porting myself for a tree guy I know. So in case you are questioning my ability to get a saw to run you are barking up the wrong tree. 

Iirc Brad and I haven't always seen eye...and that's ok. He happens to be right. The walbro tech isn't wrong...just vague.


----------



## BuckthornBonnie

Bedford T said:


> To mat I noticed the saw your 660 you built had to be sent out to make it run. The guy answered my question fully. The problem is you guys are just interested in supporting Brad's rant. You guys are more at home on the other site where you regularly attack people. In high school is was a clique, not sure what you would call this.


Are you once again calling out a member's skill? 
Ugh

Eyoa


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## Johnnybar

Bedford T said:


> To mat I noticed the saw your 660 you built had to be sent out to make it run. The guy answered my question fully. The problem is you guys are just interested in supporting Brad's rant. You guys are more at home on the other site where you regularly attack people. In high school is was a clique, not sure what you would call this.


Bedford, Please remind me where I attacked anyone? I am quite an independent thinker and if my opinion happens to agree with anyone else, it is not contrived to do so. I am very comfortable stating, "I don't know the answer to that" when that response is true. I am likewise comfortable unequivocally stating facts when I know them to be such. It is unfortunate that you feel attacked but, I have limited my responses to a reasonable discussion of the subject.


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## Mattyo

Though I'm still learning ...and have a long way to go, I can indeed tell right from wrong. Brad is right. The tech was vague. And for the most part, I know what I'm talking about and can make a saw run. Anyone other than Bedford want to call me out on that?


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## Ozhoo

Ask any tech support guy a question on a Monday or a Friday and you'll get a "Monday/Friday answer". Catch him after lunch on a Wednesday and you have a chance at getting a complete response.


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## Johnnybar

Here's Salas' response when given all the specifics: "I can only say that with the richer jet it will run cooler, but I can I comment on the effects of it being tuned". His response means if you install a larger jet and do not adjust the L/H needles it will run richer/cooler. That overly rich state of tune is not what we are trying to achieve and therefore any cooling/lubing effect is nullified when corrected to a proper tune. One can definitely run cooler with a large jet and no other changes from original tune but you will foul plugs, carbon up rings, pistons and cylinder domes and likely clog stock mufflers.


----------



## blsnelling

Back to the 660 clones. Carry on gentlemen


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## Stihlofadeal64

blsnelling said:


> Back to the 660 clones. Carry on gentlemen



Sir, yes sir!


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## albert

Bedford T said:


> I got 3 and my friends have them and between us we have run gallons through them. I milled 4 boards I used over a qt. I keep my no corn fuel rotated to the car after 30 days. The gas can has a paper tag that gives the date it was purchased. It's mixed in another can. All cans go on the expire date. I never go past 45 days. I actually think my kit saws will last and last. If you store it run some motomix to flush the mixed fuel and it will not mess up your carb components. I been using h1r and it's growing on me.



Maybe I missed it, but what affiliation if any do you have with farmer tech/huztl? You come across a being very defensive of the product or any criticism of it.


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## Johnnybar

Well the Huztl MS660 strikes again...third cut on the spalted Red Oak went problem free. Boys, I am really loving this $270 saw!


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## Antarctica

Johnnybar said:


> Well the Huztl MS660 strikes again...third cut on the spalted Red Oak went problem free. Boys, I am really loving this $270 saw!



Your milling pics forced me to put in another Huztl order - for their 36 inch mill. I've wanted one for a few years but couldn't justify the granberg price tag. But now that I have a saw big enough to drive it properly.... how good I not justify it?

I took a walk around the yard to day and see several uses already..


----------



## Wood Chopper

Antarctica said:


> Your milling pics forced me to put in another Huztl order - for their 36 inch mill. I've wanted one for a few years but couldn't justify the granberg price tag. But now that I have a saw big enough to drive it properly.... how good I not justify it?
> 
> I took a walk around the yard to day and see several uses already..



Yes I was thinking about it as well. Now thanks to Johnny and his wood P**n. I'm gonna order one. Just got to learn how to set one up. [emoji106]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Mattyo

Ok, its about time I said this.. I think ya'll need to get your heads checked with this chainsaw milling stuff. Though I do believe chainsaw milling has its place, especially due to portability issues (and size... you can cut with nearly unlimited bar sizes), if you guys are really wanting to be into milling, a 660 isn't gonna do the trick. I love chainsaws, I love my big saws, but I avoid milling with them. No matter how big they are, they still aren't big enough to compare to a severely underpowered cheap bandsaw mill. The bandsaw mills (even the HF one) beats out the chainsaws in speed, quality of cut, fuel consumption, time ... and dare I say it... FUN. So for all ya'll that think a 660 is gonna be the ticket to milling nice boards, at least TRY a bandsaw mill. My mill is one of those rare things in life that is exactly as much fun as I possibly imagined, and its WAY less maintenance than a 660 and grandberg? setup. Just to do the math for a sec... a chainsaw cuts a kerf of 3/8" or larger.... maybe close to 1/2" ... 8hp cutting that kerf. Now imagine a bandsaw cuts a kerf of 1/8" ... even if you only have a 7hp motor on your bandsaw...its still effectively triple the power of the chainsaw, and way less wasteful. I have never used the HF mill, but is less than $2k. My woodland mills mill is $3k...an upgrade. Well worth it IMHO. best of luck milling with the 660's ... Johnny's wood there does look pretty


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## Wood Chopper

I tried to do a search. Anybody know if the crank thread sizes on the 440 are the same as the 660 we just built?


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## Mattyo

i'd like to know as well


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## Wood Chopper

I was hoping you would bud. lol Guess we will figure it out when it gets here.


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## Mattyo

Well, I have all the adapters I could need at this point


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## Ozhoo

440/460 flywheel is M8 while 660 is M10
Clutches are M12 x 1.25


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## Mattyo

660 clutch side is not m12x1.25 ... its m12x1.0


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## Ozhoo

there ya go, answered your own question


----------



## Wood Chopper

So M8 X1. And M12x1?


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## Mattyo

yes and no... need to know 440 clutch side... if its still m12x1.0 then I got that adapter 

lotta husky and stihl use m8x1.0 for flywheel ... the m10x1.0 is kinda big saw/old school hehe.


----------



## Wood Chopper

Ozhoo said:


> 440/460 flywheel is M8 while 660 is M10
> Clutches are M12 x 1.25



Thanks bud. 


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## Mattyo

Maybe I miss something. ..so 440 and 660 clutch threads are same? Again...660 is m12x1.0. ....not 1.25 fyi


----------



## Johnnybar

https://www.manualowl.com/m/Stihl/MS-440-R-MAGNUM/Manual/423934
https://www.manualowl.com/m/Stihl/MS-660-R-STIHL-Magnum/Manual/415953

Here is both parts lists for any comparing you need to do. I would look for you but my 4 yr old grandson has me looking up dinosaur pics...lol


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## Johnnybar

Chainsaw vs bandsaw pros/cons has been bantered about everywhere you look ad nauseum. My choice was pretty easy...$30,000-$40,000 or $400-$1000. Large slabbing capacity gets very expensive when going the bandmill route. Plus, if I get the urge to treat a small log "delicately", I have a buddy less than 40 miles away.


----------



## Wood Chopper

Johnnybar said:


> https://www.manualowl.com/m/Stihl/MS-440-R-MAGNUM/Manual/423934
> https://www.manualowl.com/m/Stihl/MS-660-R-STIHL-Magnum/Manual/415953
> 
> Here is both parts lists for any comparing you need to do. I would look for you but my 4 yr old grandson has me looking up dinosaur pics...lol



You da bomb. Thanks Johnny 


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## Antarctica

Johnnybar said:


> Chainsaw vs bandsaw pros/cons has been bantered about everywhere you look ad nauseum. My choice was pretty easy...$30,000-$40,000 or $400-$1000. Large slabbing capacity gets very expensive when going the bandmill route. Plus, if I get the urge to treat a small log "delicately", I have a buddy less than 40 miles away.



What he said...


----------



## Johnnybar

Mattyo said:


> Ok, its about time I said this.. I think ya'll need to get your heads checked with this chainsaw milling stuff. Though I do believe chainsaw milling has its place, especially due to portability issues (and size... you can cut with nearly unlimited bar sizes), if you guys are really wanting to be into milling, a 660 isn't gonna do the trick. I love chainsaws, I love my big saws, but I avoid milling with them. No matter how big they are, they still aren't big enough to compare to a severely underpowered cheap bandsaw mill. The bandsaw mills (even the HF one) beats out the chainsaws in speed, quality of cut, fuel consumption, time ... and dare I say it... FUN. So for all ya'll that think a 660 is gonna be the ticket to milling nice boards, at least TRY a bandsaw mill. My mill is one of those rare things in life that is exactly as much fun as I possibly imagined, and its WAY less maintenance than a 660 and grandberg? setup. Just to do the math for a sec... a chainsaw cuts a kerf of 3/8" or larger.... maybe close to 1/2" ... 8hp cutting that kerf. Now imagine a bandsaw cuts a kerf of 1/8" ... even if you only have a 7hp motor on your bandsaw...its still effectively triple the power of the chainsaw, and way less wasteful. I have never used the HF mill, but is less than $2k. My woodland mills mill is $3k...an upgrade. Well worth it IMHO. best of luck milling with the 660's ... Johnny's wood there does look pretty


Get back to me on the price for a 4' and a 5' capacity bandmill and we'll talk.


----------



## Mattyo




----------



## Johnnybar

Mattyo said:


>



Again, get back to me on the all in cost to build a large capacity band mill...I suspect you will be shocked since you think it can compare with chainsaw mill cost. Go back and review what Matthew Cremona spent on his.


----------



## Ozhoo

Mattyo said:


> Maybe I miss something. ..so 440 and 660 clutch threads are same? Again...660 is m12x1.0. ....not 1.25 fyi



Yes, whatever the thread is a 440/460 & 660 are all the same thread


----------



## Mattyo

Johnnybar said:


> Again, get back to me on the all in cost to build a large capacity band mill...I suspect you will be shocked since you think it can compare with chainsaw mill cost. Go back and review what Matthew Cremona spent on his.



#1, Matt C is my new hero. #2, I don't exactly know what his motivation was to do a bandmill like that, but I gotta imagine he was just a bit frustrated with chainsaw milling. Hell, even Wranglerstar got himself a mill (lucas mill)....and he's been doing chainsaw milling for a while. Frustration with the mills has got to be at least part of the driving force towards ...and look what Matt built! If it was easy to use the chainsaw mills, Matt wouldn't have bothered making that monstrosity! 

Like I said in my original post, the portability of a chainsaw mill is a plus, as is in initial investment cost. However, based on the fact that smaller mills are relatively inexpensive at this point (not 30k+) I think inexpensive bandsaw mills need to be seriously looked at if someone is mildly serious about milling... ie... Woodland Mills hm130 ...$4000. Their biggest mill. Though this is a significant cost compared to the initial investment of a chainsaw mill/equipment, I think if you are milling boards the $$ will wash very quickly. For slabbin huge pieces, ok. But the chains, fuel, time etc you are gonna expend is gonna be very significant. If you want to do dimensional lumber, a chainsaw mill is gonna get old in a hurry. So for those guys expecting they are gonna get a 660 and just go for it ... I think they are in for some disappointment and frustration.... assuming the saw performs as it should. 


Ozhoo, thanks for confirming the 440 and 660 are same thread...that's very helpful. When I get my 440 project I'll likely be using my adapters to put the case together


----------



## Johnnybar

Maybe you have a better search engine than I use. Find the best price on a 50" throat band mill and let me know. Did you get that cost figure on Matthew's home built mill yet? I've been following Matthew for over a year now and let me tell you it was a huge cost in materials alone and he already had the variable frequency speed controller for that 10 hp electric motor iirc. My purpose is to slab 32" to 50"+ oak. The $4000 mill you refer to that reports "30" log diameter capability" has a 22" throat that can effectively handle 20" slabbing on very straight logs and maybe 15" on real world logs I see...no where near the needed capabilities we are talking about here. That Lucas mill, which Wranglestar did not buy but was placed for promo purposes, can slab nicely for $6,000 more with a chainsaw conversion(pic below). That's a considerable additional cost above the swingblade setup ($13,500) which has very limited slabbing capabilities even on their largest mill (20" max iirc). You can also get the 60" Lucas slabber stand alone for $9,000. KISS means more that "Simple" for me ...I add "Soft" on the pocket book when I think KISS. Keep It Simple & Soft LOL


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## davhul

I know very little about milling. But I've seen a few tables that a guy did with a chainsaw mill and they looked amazing. The right chain angles also makes a difference. There's always the Honduran Way


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## Wood Chopper

davhul said:


> I know very little about milling. But I've seen a few tables that a guy did with a chainsaw mill and they looked amazing. The right chain angles also makes a difference. There's always the Honduran Way




What is he following? Looks like thick black chalk lines or something. Holding just the back of the saw must make it easier for the saw blade to keep close as possible to 90 degrees? Crazy!


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## Johnnybar

davhul said:


> I know very little about milling. But I've seen a few tables that a guy did with a chainsaw mill and they looked amazing. The right chain angles also makes a difference. There's always the Honduran Way



LOL, I use to spend way too much time watching these guys mill lumber free hand with what looks like 070's and hard nose bars. Would'nt want to arm wrestle with any of them!


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## Johnnybar

Wood Chopper said:


> What is he following? Looks like thick black chalk lines or something. Holding just the back of the saw must make it easier for the saw blade to keep close as possible to 90 degrees? Crazy!


Most I've watched mill 100% freehand and a few had boy helpers that placed chalk lines for the 2nd face cut on the inside of the bow in the log.


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## TPA

Well, as of this moment I'm officially a member of the 660 club. What is their latest delivery times?


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## Johnnybar

TPA said:


> Well, as of this moment I'm officially a member of the 660 club. What is their latest delivery times?


Mine took about 2 weeks.


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## Mattyo

Johnnybar said:


> Maybe you have a better search engine than I use. Find the best price on a 50" throat band mill and let me know. Did you get that cost figure on Matthew's home built mill yet? I've been following Matthew for over a year now and let me tell you it was a huge cost in materials alone and he already had the variable frequency speed controller for that 10 hp electric motor iirc. My purpose is to slab 32" to 50"+ oak. The $4000 mill you refer to that reports "30" log diameter capability" has a 22" throat that can effectively handle 20" slabbing on very straight logs and maybe 15" on real world logs I see...no where near the needed capabilities we are talking about here. That Lucas mill, which Wranglestar did not buy but was placed for promo purposes, can slab nicely for $6,000 more with a chainsaw conversion(pic below). That's a considerable additional cost above the swingblade setup ($13,500) which has very limited slabbing capabilities even on their largest mill (20" max iirc). You can also get the 60" Lucas slabber stand alone for $9,000. KISS means more that "Simple" for me ...I add "Soft" on the pocket book when I think KISS. Keep It Simple & Soft LOL



I never said the woodland can do huge slabs. And I did say that one advantage to chainsaw mills is the portability and the nearly unlimited bar lengths. However, if you are expecting to be doing dimensional lumber with chainsaws its just the wrong piece of equipment. I haven't seen all his vids, but its my impression that Matt C could have continued using a chainsaw for slabbing. He didn't... he went to great lengths and expense to have one of the baddest mills out there. A 660 is certainly fine for a few slabs. After a while, its just gonna get frustrating. If you haven't run a bandsaw mill, even a small one, I suggest you try it. I love my chainsaws, but my mill is definitely the biggest kick to run. Its super safe, and efficient. No, it won't slab off 50" oak, but then again, a few slabs on 50" oak is gonna be an all day project for a 660. I just don't want to see a whole pile of guys buy 660's for milling and then find out they are inadequate for the job they want to do. For the price its definitely enticing to just get in and go for it. But I don't think that ultimately it'll be as light on the pocket book as you think. imho.

And you are exactly right about the woodland. an ideal log is 22-24" diameter on my mill. any bigger and I'm carving pieces off with the chainsaw. ...that and bigger than that is difficult to move for one guy without hydraulics or a loader  

And also, with Wranglerstars Lucas mill, yes I know thats hugely product placement. I'd have to try one to be convinced it'd be the way to go. I like the fact that you can sharpen it very quickly. But it just looks clunky and awkward to use. I dunno. lotta $$ too.


----------



## emanaresi

I just received my huztl 660 kit today and I am mostly impressed. I am missing at least the few detail things that everyone else has been (no foil reflective pieces, no winter/summer cover for the air box). Other than that is seems complete. I am wiring for my dirko and three bond to come in the mail. I really can't make much progress until they get here. Does everyone use sealant on the case gasket? It doesn't really seem necessary, but then again, I'd hate to have to split the case just to seal up an air leak. 

I attached pics of my cylinder, it looks pretty good, I think. I am going to clean up some of the casting stuff, but I don't think there is much room in the ports to go bigger, maybe a little bit... What is recommended as far as room between the edge of the port and the edge of the cylinder skirt? This is not my first time porting an engine but is, but is my first time porting a 2 stroke.


----------



## emanaresi

I was surprised to see that the bottom of the cylinder was not a machined surface. Is that normal?


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## Wood Chopper

A bit of 1184 is cheap insurance between case halves. Most will say overkill but taking cases back apart would be a no bueno. Lol


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## dswensen

Wood Chopper said:


> A bit of 1184 is cheap insurance between case halves. Most will say overkill but taking cases back apart would be a no bueno. Lol
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




I have to agree. I used Motoseal between the case halves on both my 044 and my 066 kits. Did I need to? Don't know. Am I glad I did? you bet!


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## Mattyo

EMAN, your cylinder looks nicer than the one I had in my vids... mine was rough on the inside, sharp etc. 

I'm working on a poor mans porting solution at the moment, hope to have some results next week.


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## emanaresi

I have a dremel with carbide burrs and stones. My brother has a die grinder with carbides I can use, but I think the dremel will be plenty. I am not looking for a hot saw, just would like to go over it a little while its apart. I probably will just clean up the obvious casting lines and smooth it all out a bit then use it how it is. 

I just don't want to get too aggressive and ruin anything


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## davhul

You can also open up and taper the piston windows some to


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## emanaresi

Yes, I will do that. BTW, does anyone have a comparison of the stock oiler vs the high output oiler. I read somewhere once I think that you may be able to make some modification to the original parts to increase the oiling. I am going to use the saw often to run a 36" bar on the chinese mill. It would nice to have the extra oil.


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## emanaresi

Also, my cases have the too big space for the chain adjuster screw. I ordered a piece of the tubing to make a shim. I have reported all issues so far to huztl including that the carb butterfly doesn't close tightly. Its not awful but not great, we will see how it idles when it is all together. I think I just heard the mailman so I am going to get my three bond and putting some things together


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## davhul

On the end of the oil pump control bolt its machined offset. On the high flow its smaller and allows the part it touches to move over more for more oil. I haven't modified one yet but the stock one could be. I don't have a upgraded one to take a pic but here's a stock one out of a 460.


----------



## Johnnybar

Mattyo said:


> I never said the woodland can do huge slabs. And I did say that one advantage to chainsaw mills is the portability and the nearly unlimited bar lengths. However, if you are expecting to be doing dimensional lumber with chainsaws its just the wrong piece of equipment. I haven't seen all his vids, but its my impression that Matt C could have continued using a chainsaw for slabbing. He didn't... he went to great lengths and expense to have one of the baddest mills out there. A 660 is certainly fine for a few slabs. After a while, its just gonna get frustrating. If you haven't run a bandsaw mill, even a small one, I suggest you try it. I love my chainsaws, but my mill is definitely the biggest kick to run. Its super safe, and efficient. No, it won't slab off 50" oak, but then again, a few slabs on 50" oak is gonna be an all day project for a 660. I just don't want to see a whole pile of guys buy 660's for milling and then find out they are inadequate for the job they want to do. For the price its definitely enticing to just get in and go for it. But I don't think that ultimately it'll be as light on the pocket book as you think. imho.
> 
> And you are exactly right about the woodland. an ideal log is 22-24" diameter on my mill. any bigger and I'm carving pieces off with the chainsaw. ...that and bigger than that is difficult to move for one guy without hydraulics or a loader
> 
> And also, with Wranglerstars Lucas mill, yes I know thats hugely product placement. I'd have to try one to be convinced it'd be the way to go. I like the fact that you can sharpen it very quickly. But it just looks clunky and awkward to use. I dunno. lotta $$ too.


36" mill slabbing was the topic. No mention of lumber or volume production and at 7 minutes to go through 10 feet of 30" slab with one powerhead using 15-20 oz mix and half that much oil, I don't think I'll have to find my way home in the dark all frustrated. Likewise, no one stated that they were planning to slab 50" with one 660 powerhead. Bands and swingers are great if justifiable...but they are just a square plug for the round hole we were discussing.


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## Johnnybar

davhul said:


> On the end of the oil pump control bolt its machined offset. On the high flow its smaller and allows the part it touches to move over more for more oil. I haven't modified one yet but the stock one could be. I don't have a upgraded one to take a pic but here's a stock one out of a 460.


About how much smaller is the cam on the HO bolt?


----------



## davhul

I didn't measure but I Would say .75-1mm. If I have time I may do it to my last 660 tomorrow or Saturday. I'm going to only take some material off where it's adjusted to max.


----------



## Johnnybar

davhul said:


> I didn't measure but I Would say .75-1mm. If I have time I may do it to my last 660 tomorrow or Saturday. I'm going to only take some material off where it's adjusted to max.


So, that would be about half way to that bright spot in the pic?


----------



## davhul

Before I pull it out I'm going to mark where fully open is then shave some off and round the sharp edges. I suspect it's going to be about right about here on the cam.


----------



## Johnnybar

Thanks, I have a new farmertec 660 oiler for backup that I think I will do the HO mod to. If I take too much off, does the piston just go to the end of it's travel on each revolution and no harm done?


----------



## davhul

I'm going to shoot for 
.80mm when I do it and taper it smooth.when you pull it out you'll see what it moves and see how it works. It moves the gear that the worm gear touches back and forth.


----------



## davhul

I'm sure there's a thread on it but I haven't searched. I ordered one for my 2nd 660. And modding the next. Was about $8-10 at dealer 1128 640 4802


----------



## emanaresi

I just measured squish without a base gasket and it measured 15 thousandths. Is that too tight? DO I need to run the gasket? If so, that'll take it up to about 30 thousandths...


----------



## Johnnybar

The HO parts list shows the adjuster screw and the piston replacing the originals. If you don't replace the piston with the HO version, that I am guessing has a more aggressive cam on the end of the pinion gear, or file the original deeper on the low side, I'm stumped on how it will increase output much. It looks like the original unmodified piston will just move back and forth the same amount in a slightly different position after the adjuster screw is modified. What will happen if I file the cam a little deeper on the low side where the arrow is so that the piston travels a longer stroke?


----------



## Johnnybar

emanaresi said:


> I just measured squish without a base gasket and it measured 15 thousandths. Is that too tight? DO I need to run the gasket? If so, that'll take it up to about 30 thousandths...


I built to .020" squish. You can use 1184 with some aftermarket gasket material that is your choice of thickness to dial in the squish you desire. I seem to remember some guy using paper to tweek squish.


----------



## davhul

From my understating just the bolt has to be upgraded. I'm going to see if I can find it again in some of my literature and make sure. @blsnelling might be able to add some input


----------



## Johnnybar

davhul said:


> From my understating just the bolt has to be upgraded. I'm going to see if I can find it again in some of my literature and make sure. @blsnelling might be able to add some input


That would be great because filing that piston's cam looks challenging.


----------



## Johnnybar

here's one that just did the adjuster:


isaaccarlson said:


> I finally got fed up with not getting enough oil to the B/C when cutting really hard wood so i called Mike at Midwest Stihl and asked if there were any other oilers that would fit and he said no. He said I would have to build a bigger one or mod the one I have, so I started tearing it apart. He said I could trim some off the head of the adjuster so i could turn it a little further. I looked at the inner end of the adjuster and figured out where it would have to sit to give the oiler piston/rotor maximum travel, and grouond the head to that angle. I also took a couple thousandths off the inner end peg just to make sure it had all the travel it could get. Put it back together and put 200 revs on the drum by hand and the oil port/slot were full of oil!!!! It couldn't do that before!!!!


----------



## Johnnybar

blsnelling said:


> Not all 660s have an HO oiler. The wrap models do, as well as those sold in Australia. All you really need is the piston and control bolt.



Evidently, to get max output both are needed but it sounds like the adjuster only will help. Here is a pic of the HO piston...looks like a steeper cam than my stock.


----------



## Johnnybar

Couple minutes with a Dremel and safe edge files:





PS, The piston travel now looks 30% - 50% more but it's hard to tell on such a small part.


----------



## Johnnybar

Now that the adjuster cam is shiny from the filing, I can tell exactly how the parts engage each other and how the mod works along with it's limitations. The adjuster cam engages the small round flat above the pistons cam and its purpose is to limit or allow full return of the piston depending on its setting. I now have at least .010" clearance between the adjuster cam and the piston flat at the max setting meaning it can travel as far as the piston cam will allow and to get more oil will require an HO piston or modding the original to a deeper cam. I'll try the adjuster mod only and see how it does on a 42" milling bar.


----------



## emanaresi

thanks! that is great info. Let us know how it goes. 

I have 2 more questions:

-did anyone have trouble with the bearing for the clutch drum? I had a really hard time putting it on, it seems like it is too big, or maybe the clutch drum is made too small. My old saws they come apart easily, but they are well broken in, so I can't say if this is ok or not.

-The oil pump clutch that goes behind the main chain clutch, I think it goes with the dome facing out towards (so it cups over the oil pump sort of). Is that right?


----------



## Johnnybar

emanaresi said:


> thanks! that is great info. Let us know how it goes.
> 
> I have 2 more questions:
> 
> -did anyone have trouble with the bearing for the clutch drum? I had a really hard time putting it on, it seems like it is too big, or maybe the clutch drum is made too small. My old saws they come apart easily, but they are well broken in, so I can't say if this is ok or not.
> 
> -The oil pump clutch that goes behind the main chain clutch, I think it goes with the dome facing out towards (so it cups over the oil pump sort of). Is that right?


1. My bearing was a very snug fit...almost no drum clearance. It had to be in perfect alignment to seat it. Always a chance you have an under-spec drum. If so, wrap some emery paper around slotted dowel and polish it up a bit with a drill or a dremel with a small flap wheel. Clean thoroughly afterward and lube it well before assembly.
2. I think you mean the oil pump cover washer and yes it goes hump up or out toward the clutch.


----------



## mdavlee

Johnnybar said:


> About how much smaller is the cam on the HO bolt?


.4mm


----------



## davhul

Your grinding looks good. That's good to know both can be replaced to get the max. That might only be needed for milling like you or just the bolt could be good enough for you. I put a oem upgrade bolt in my 460 last week and I'm going to try it tomorrow. If I use 1:1 with the fuel that's what I want. My early 064 has 2 turns of adjustment and it will dump oil.


----------



## Johnnybar

davhul said:


> Your grinding looks good. That's good to know both can be replaced to get the max. That might only be needed for milling like you or just the bolt could be good enough for you. I put a oem upgrade bolt in my 460 last week and I'm going to try it tomorrow. If I use 1:1 with the fuel that's what I want. My early 064 has 2 turns of adjustment and it will dump oil.


1:1 fuel to bar oil is a whole bunch of oil! Might need that much for long bar milling but if you need that much the information I've seen says to use an aux oiler for two reasons. 1. The extra oil goes directly to the work side of the bar. 2. That much extra oil coming from the powerhead oiler gets most of the surplus slung off at the nose and doesn't saturate the cutting side as intended.


----------



## davhul

It used 3/4 a tank before. When I cut dry pine or large white oak is when I would turn it up. I even play with a 36" on it sometime. It's far from stock


----------



## dswensen

emanaresi said:


> thanks! that is great info. Let us know how it goes.
> 
> I have 2 more questions:
> 
> -did anyone have trouble with the bearing for the clutch drum? I had a really hard time putting it on, it seems like it is too big, or maybe the clutch drum is made too small. My old saws they come apart easily, but they are well broken in, so I can't say if this is ok or not.
> 
> -The oil pump clutch that goes behind the main chain clutch, I think it goes with the dome facing out towards (so it cups over the oil pump sort of). Is that right?



Yes to #1. I had to increase the ID of my clutch drum a few thousandths with a Dremel to make it work. Mine wasn't the bearing, I tried an OEM bearing and had the same issue. The problem was ZERO clearance. I added the measured OD of the crank shaft to 2X the measured OD of a bearing roller and got EXACTLY the ID of the clutch drum. Won't work - it needs just a few thousandths extra to make it all fit.


----------



## Definitive Dave

This one aint a Huztl 
The third cut is my favorite from this practice run for Saturday


----------



## Johnnybar

davhul said:


> It used 3/4 a tank before. When I cut dry pine or large white oak is when I would turn it up. I even play with a 36" on it sometime. It's far from stock


Oh, you mean 1 tank : 1 tank? That would be about 2.3 : 1 by volume so that makes more sense.


----------



## Johnnybar

davhul said:


> Your grinding looks good. That's good to know both can be replaced to get the max. That might only be needed for milling like you or just the bolt could be good enough for you. I put a oem upgrade bolt in my 460 last week and I'm going to try it tomorrow. If I use 1:1 with the fuel that's what I want. My early 064 has 2 turns of adjustment and it will dump oil.


Only the head of the adjuster, where the screwdriver slot is, was ground using the dremel. Then the head was cleaned up and cam tip reprofiled using the jewelers files. Make sure to use safe edge files so you don't bugger up the shoulder the cam tip sits on.


----------



## Johnnybar

Definitive Dave said:


> This one aint a Huztl
> The third cut is my favorite from this practice run for Saturday



Is that safety bumper green chain?


----------



## emanaresi

So for the bearings on the clutch, if I can get it together, is it a bad idea to let it just wear in? I guess I'll probably pull it back of and clearance it a little. 

Here is another one I haven't read about on here before:

The chain brake lever doesn't work well, I was expecting that, but the pin that the lever goes on seems to be driven too far into the case by about .010. I can fit a .020 feeler gauge into the slot with the lever on, but the E-clip that is supposed to go on the shaft os .030 thick. And that is after scraping the paint off from under the lever to try to provide a bit more clearance. I have ordered an OEM lever to fix the operational issues and I am hoping it is a little thinner as well, we'll see. If it is not thinner, I guess my options are to grind down the lever a bit, or grind down the boss of the case that the pin is in. I don't think it is a good idea to try to drive the pin back out a little, I am worried it will become loose in the bore.


----------



## Mattyo

Eman, got lots of vids and tips on my youtube channel, I had a similar issue with my chainbrake handle...


----------



## emanaresi

Thanks mattyo, I've watched a lot of videos but missed yours. I knew about the problem with travel, I was kind of expecting that. I decided I would rather switch to an oem lever without having to grind on the handle. I feel like allowing it the extra travel to make the aftermarket one work kinda weakens the safety feature that the chain brake is. I want it to lock the chain as soon as possible in the case of a kickback  

Did you have the problem with the clip not fitting onto the shaft for the chain brake?


----------



## Mattyo

No issue with the clip. Just the travel issue. 

I'm not sure the oem handle will solve the problem. Maybe... maybe not. In this case, I don't think the handle is weakened enough to be a safety concern, but certainly if you modify any safety device you are taking your life into your own hands. I got mine to work reliably, so as long as it works repeatably, i'm happy. 

I have full bolt for bolt vids on my channel. They are super boring, but help as a reference. Heck, I go back to them often to see how I put stuff together!


----------



## Wood Chopper

Definitive Dave said:


> This one aint a Huztl
> The third cut is my favorite from this practice run for Saturday




You don't have to tell everything but what saw is that and in general what did you do. Not to go off track. But geeesh. [emoji2][emoji7]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Johnnybar

emanaresi said:


> So for the bearings on the clutch, if I can get it together, is it a bad idea to let it just wear in? I guess I'll probably pull it back of and clearance it a little.
> 
> Here is another one I haven't read about on here before:
> 
> The chain brake lever doesn't work well, I was expecting that, but the pin that the lever goes on seems to be driven too far into the case by about .010. I can fit a .020 feeler gauge into the slot with the lever on, but the E-clip that is supposed to go on the shaft os .030 thick. And that is after scraping the paint off from under the lever to try to provide a bit more clearance. I have ordered an OEM lever to fix the operational issues and I am hoping it is a little thinner as well, we'll see. If it is not thinner, I guess my options are to grind down the lever a bit, or grind down the boss of the case that the pin is in. I don't think it is a good idea to try to drive the pin back out a little, I am worried it will become loose in the bore.


PITA but you can take a picture of the too deep pin and have them send another case or case half. Personally, I would thin the AM lever very slightly with a carbide end mill since it has no side to side forces to worry about and see how that works. If no issues are found, repeat with the OEM to address the handle travel issue. Guess you could also chuck a flat tip grinder bit in a drill press and kiss it a few times to accomplish the same thing.


----------



## dswensen

emanaresi said:


> So for the bearings on the clutch, if I can get it together, is it a bad idea to let it just wear in? I guess I'll probably pull it back of and clearance it a little.



With mine, I couldn't get the clutch drum on without a hammer. Even tapping it a bit made it SO tight I almost couldn't get it off, and that was only tapping it about 20% home . I felt I had no choice but to clearance it a bit. If you can get it together - maybe OK??


----------



## Ozhoo

emanaresi said:


> ...The chain brake lever doesn't work well, I was expecting that, but the pin that the lever goes on seems to be driven too far into the case by about .010. I can fit a .020 feeler gauge into the slot with the lever on, but the E-clip that is supposed to go on the shaft os .030 thick. And that is after scraping the paint off from under the lever to try to provide a bit more clearance. I have ordered an OEM lever to fix the operational issues and I am hoping it is a little thinner as well, we'll see. If it is not thinner, I guess my options are to grind down the lever a bit, or grind down the boss of the case that the pin is in. I don't think it is a good idea to try to drive the pin back out a little, I am worried it will become loose in the bore.



You can remove those pins and reseat/replace them. I've used a cats paw on them before. They're splined so you don't wanna twist, just pull straight out. Use a little loctite when you reseat them.


----------



## blsnelling

Drive it back out from the back side.


----------



## Johnnybar

dswensen said:


> With mine, I couldn't get the clutch drum on without a hammer. Even tapping it a bit made it SO tight I almost couldn't get it off, and that was only tapping it about 20% home . I felt I had to choice but to clearance it a bit. If you can get it together - maybe OK??


Any of you fellas happen to put an accurate caliper on those tight drums?


----------



## blsnelling

dswensen said:


> With mine, I couldn't get the clutch drum on without a hammer. Even tapping it a bit made it SO tight I almost couldn't get it off, and that was only tapping it about 20% home . I felt I had to choice but to clearance it a bit. If you can get it together - maybe OK??


Grinding the drum is a very bad idea. That's a bearing race.


----------



## emanaresi

I was worried if I tapped out the pin I wouldn't be able to get it back in. But if you guys say it would work that is definitely the most elegant solution 

Mattyo - I didn't mean an OEM hand guard, but rather the little lever with the linkage. Others have reported that replacing with oem improved function greatly. 

Yeah, I normally wouldn't mess with a bearing race, but this is one that really only spins at low RPM (when the clutch is disengaged) right? Maybe not too critical.


----------



## Johnnybar

Well the nitpicking continues...LOL The Huztl 660 missing parts package arrived today and was still short: two heat foils, winter/summer slide, 3 cylinder cover bushings. 

What I did get looked fine. No, that's not a 660 muffler. Huztl forgot my 290/390 muffler too.


----------



## emanaresi

I think maybe the best tactic is to ask for a refund of enough money to buy the foils and winter/summer slide separately.


----------



## Johnnybar

emanaresi said:


> I think maybe the best tactic is to ask for a refund of enough money to buy the foils and winter/summer slide separately.


I agree but I am currently awaiting a response, hopefully tonight my time, to my inquiry about a 2nd package or a back order I was not informed of before i go the refund route. Probably would not even bother with it except they list the kit as "Complete" and it should either be complete or be listed as partial with an itemized list available...maybe I'm just being an arse but I never operated like that in my 40 yrs of working.


----------



## dswensen

blsnelling said:


> Grinding the drum is a very bad idea. That's a bearing race.



I know. It took some polishing to make it as good as it came.


----------



## Johnnybar

emanaresi said:


> So for the bearings on the clutch, if I can get it together, is it a bad idea to let it just wear in? I guess I'll probably pull it back of and clearance it a little.
> 
> Here is another one I haven't read about on here before:
> 
> The chain brake lever doesn't work well, I was expecting that, but the pin that the lever goes on seems to be driven too far into the case by about .010. I can fit a .020 feeler gauge into the slot with the lever on, but the E-clip that is supposed to go on the shaft os .030 thick. And that is after scraping the paint off from under the lever to try to provide a bit more clearance. I have ordered an OEM lever to fix the operational issues and I am hoping it is a little thinner as well, we'll see. If it is not thinner, I guess my options are to grind down the lever a bit, or grind down the boss of the case that the pin is in. I don't think it is a good idea to try to drive the pin back out a little, I am worried it will become loose in the bore.


The inner race for that bearing is the crankshaft...so, yes bad idea...drum needs to spin freely.


----------



## blsnelling

Johnnybar said:


> The inner race for that bearing is the crankshaft...so, yes bad idea...drum needs to spin freely.


Trash the bearing with the drum, and then those same bearing rollers are running on the crankshaft.


----------



## Chris3558

Johnnybar said:


> Well the nitpicking continues...LOL The Huztl 660 missing parts package arrived today and was still short: two heat foils, winter/summer slide, 3 cylinder cover bushings.


I agree, they call it "Complete Repair Parts For Stihl MS660". I ordered 3 "Complete MS660" kits back in mid- February. Once I received them, it took a while to really get my head into what might be missing, damaged, etc. One of my case halves had a crack where the cylinder mounts, missing one case half gasket...missing one top cover vibration grommet....several carburetors, the mixture screws bent with damaged o-rings (common). One of my air cleaner covers, the the threads are destroyed....the piston skirts hit the crank counterweights on all 3 and had to be modified.....the new style chain brake handle was missing the flywheel side bushings on all 3 handles. 
I understand this is part of the challenge, but myself along with others are trying to help get these kits to a "reasonable quality level". For the most part, it is a decent saw once you get all the correct parts to put it together. There is no way the people at Huztl with some simple hand tools could take one of these "Complete" kit saws out of the box and end up with a working saw! 
Huzlt has always been decent about returning my emails, asking for pictures of the issues, they say their manager is working to resolve these issues.

I asked them about the missing winter/summer shutters, missing top cover brass inserts, missing foil, missing felling spike nuts that are typically missing from all the kits and they said they won't be sending them? I assume that means they are not included in the kits. We have all excepted that, its the other items that usually hold us up and we either have to visit the dealer or wait several more weeks for Huztl to hopefully send the correct parts.
They also offer coupons on their website: Example, $40.00 coupon on $800.00 order. $20.00 coupon on $500.00 order. Anyone ever get one of them to work?? That is a whole another topic.


----------



## Bedford T

FYI the shutter and the bushings were discussed months ago in this thread. On the shutter I argued that it was necessary they pointed to an asterisk that shows it was deleted on a IPL they had. Defective parts are another thing entirely and am sure they will address with you. My kits have been great and the saws that rose from them. I had a carb without a jet, a bum coil a missing screw and a throttle rod, piston bearing. Little things. Aggravating.


----------



## Chris3558

It is frustrating when you patiently wait two - three weeks for your kit to show up, start assembling things and find parts are missing. You would think that would be an easy problem to correct? Its been an issue since this thread started long ago. We all have different skill levels, and know going into these saws, there are going to be issues. But, when you start to assemble the crank and case halves, go to install the piston and see clearly the counterweights are hitting the piston skirts....really?? Then its time to get some answers. The consistency in quality and verification of all parts present in each kit is the main issue. Earlier, my first 2 MS660 kits had small damage, scraps on painted items, etc. that most of us have experienced, but went together pretty decent. All parts came in the plastic Farmertek bags and positioned in puzzle form packaged inside a thin cardboard box. I had some damage during shipping and mentioned it to them. They responded with a credit. I had mentioned to Huztl management, until you improve your packaging of parts, I am on hold for placing any future orders. They said, they were working on it. After their long New Years holiday, they emailed me, they had improved their packaging, so I placed an order for 3 more kits. The kits arrived with bubble wrap around the cylinders, crank, clutches, cases, carburetors, felling spikes and few other parts. They do listen, just that their vendors building piece parts quality procedures are not consistent. Also, the packaging of piece parts are not consistent. Hopefully, from each of us voicing to them whats not right, whats missing, what doesn't work, they will continue to improve.


----------



## Johnnybar

I had a few small items missing and emailed Evie and Lynn about them. A few M4 & M5X12 screws, foil, W/S slide, CB handle bushing, cover bushings were on the slow boat from China while I ran to Fastenal and grabbed some button head metric bolts and made a slide from a doubled over butter tub lid, to get the thing running for break-in. First re-ship had everything but the foil, slide and cover bushings...Lynn said sorry and they will get another package out ASAP. I think the fact that I let them both know, especially Lynn the Manager, that I have many active saw building friends that I visit with regularly and that I would like to see the little issues resolved on the potentially numerous future orders I place, went a long way to getting the very cooperative response on the items they usually never send. We now wait..............


----------



## Johnnybar

Bedford T said:


> FYI the shutter and the bushings were discussed months ago in this thread. On the shutter I argued that it was necessary they pointed to an asterisk that shows it was deleted on a IPL they had. Defective parts are another thing entirely and am sure they will address with you. My kits have been great and the saws that rose from them. I had a carb without a jet, a bum coil a missing screw and a throttle rod, piston bearing. Little things. Aggravating.


I had them try to tell me that eBay sellers list the MS360 clutch drums as compatible for MS290/390 saws so it is OK for Huztl to ship them as 290 drums. LOL, It's OK if you never want to run .325 chain which is OEM. They refunded me and didn't return ship the 360 drum. BedfordT, I'm not sure where they found that * but, Stihl shows nothing, which indicates it is still a current item (#18).


----------



## Johnnybar

Chris3558 said:


> They also offer coupons on their website: Example, $40.00 coupon on $800.00 order. $20.00 coupon on $500.00 order. Anyone ever get one of them to work?? That is a whole another topic.


Log in, select "Shopping Cart", select "Add a Coupon", select "Select In My Account", select appropriate coupon based on $ amount of order. Note: You must have already filled your shopping cart with the intended order so the $ amount is equal to or exceeds the coupon value or the code will be rejected.


----------



## blsnelling

Chris3558 said:


> It is frustrating when you patiently wait two - three weeks for your kit to show up, start assembling things and find parts are missing. You would think that would be an easy problem to correct? Its been an issue since this thread started long ago. We all have different skill levels, and know going into these saws, there are going to be issues. But, when you start to assemble the crank and case halves, go to install the piston and see clearly the counterweights are hitting the piston skirts....really?? Then its time to get some answers. The consistency in quality and verification of all parts present in each kit is the main issue. Earlier, my first 2 MS660 kits had small damage, scraps on painted items, etc. that most of us have experienced, but went together pretty decent. All parts came in the plastic Farmertek bags and positioned in puzzle form packaged inside a thin cardboard box. I had some damage during shipping and mentioned it to them. They responded with a credit. I had mentioned to Huztl management, until you improve your packaging of parts, I am on hold for placing any future orders. They said, they were working on it. After their long New Years holiday, they emailed me, they had improved their packaging, so I placed an order for 3 more kits. The kits arrived with bubble wrap around the cylinders, crank, clutches, cases, carburetors, felling spikes and few other parts. They do listen, just that their vendors building piece parts quality procedures are not consistent. Also, the packaging of piece parts are not consistent. Hopefully, from each of us voicing to them whats not right, whats missing, what doesn't work, they will continue to improve.


QC is a lot of what you're paying for with an OEM saw. You're not going to get OEM quality for a fraction of the cost.


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## Chris3558

Thanks Johnnybar, that is where I messed up. I did get them to credit me the coupon amount after a week worth of emails.


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## emanaresi

I measured the inner bore of a clutch drum. Mine is .6215" on my digital caliper. I put an oregon drum on and it went on fine. I didn't measure it before I put it on. Maybe I will later.


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## Johnnybar

blsnelling said:


> QC is a lot of what you're paying for with an OEM saw. You're not going to get OEM quality for a fraction of the cost.


Fortunately, my only small QC issue was with Huztl's shipping department not packing a full kit. Quality of the parts received were actually much better than I expected for the price of the kit and I did get all the major components required to have a running saw after buying $1 worth of nuts and bolts locally. On second thought the oil line was a little too stiff but a little extra weight near the pickup screen fixed that.


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## Johnnybar

emanaresi said:


> I measured the inner bore of a clutch drum. Mine is .6215" on my digital caliper. I put an oregon drum on and it went on fine. I didn't measure it before I put it on. Maybe I will later.


Well the bearing is 10X16X13 so that ID would have to be closer to .640" to have any chance of fitting.


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## emanaresi

I guess that explains why it is so tight! The oregon drum I put on was still snug, but it slid on by hand. 

If You have a brake cylinder hone, it may work you hone out the drum some...


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## blsnelling

emanaresi said:


> I guess that explains why it is so tight! The oregon drum I put on was still snug, but it slid on by hand.
> 
> If You have a brake cylinder hone, it may work you hone out the drum some...


That won't come close to leaving the proper bearing surface.


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## grizz55chev

blsnelling said:


> That won't come close to leaving the proper bearing surface.


Agreed, it'll go on but probably won't last long.


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## Johnnybar

emanaresi said:


> I guess that explains why it is so tight! The oregon drum I put on was still snug, but it slid on by hand.
> 
> If You have a brake cylinder hone, it may work you hone out the drum some...


Just have them reship...no charge.


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## dswensen

blsnelling said:


> That won't come close to leaving the proper bearing surface.



I spent quite a bit of time polishing the inside of the clutch drum center hole after opening mine up a bit. I think it's better than most new clutch drums I have seen, but who knows if it's slightly out of round (without the right measuring equipment) or if it's smooth enough to act as a bearing race for the long term life of the drum. The good news is that I can't detect any vibration resulting from the metal work.

We'll see.

In the meantime, I know I will be checking frequently for wear on the crankshaft.

The up side is - if I have to replace a crankshaft, I now know I can do it, thanks to this project.


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## emanaresi

I got an oregon drum off of amazon for $19 shipped. Seemed like the best solution to me.

I got the tubing to shim the chain adjuster today and put that all together, it works really well with the shims on it, I am pretty happy with how it turned out.

My saw is running despite some small issues still outstanding with huztl (heat shields, air shutter, some missing hardware, etc)

I plan to put a 20" bar and chain off my 038 on it tomorrow and tune it and break it in a little. Any thoughts on proper break in procedure and rpms to shoot for on the tune? 

Once it is broken in a little it'll get a 36" bar and ripping chains and it will probably spend the rest of its life attached to a mill. We don't really have a lot of trees in southern NJ that need a 92cc saw  Really my 038 is overkill and my 028 is right at home most of the time.


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## Johnnybar

Never used a tach...adjust it to a heavy burble using 32:1. Make sure you are still getting a little burble in the cut on the first few tanks. Get a 42 inch bar or you will never be able to use the capacity of the 36-inch Mill. It is better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. Guys that say, " 24 inch is the biggest around here" wish they had more when they want to include that burled knot, limb junction or fork for a special project. Shop around and be patient...42" bars are not that expensive.



emanated said:


> I got an oregon drum off of amazon for $19 shipped. Seemed like the best solution to me.
> 
> I got the tubing to shim the chain adjuster today and put that all together, it works really well with the shims on it, I am pretty happy with how it turned out.
> 
> My saw is running despite some small issues still outstanding with huztl (heat shields, air shutter, some missing hardware, etc)
> 
> I plan to put a 20" bar and chain off my 038 on it tomorrow and tune it and break it in a little. Any thoughts on proper break in procedure and rpms to shoot for on the tune?
> 
> Once it is broken in a little it'll get a 36" bar and ripping chains and it will probably spend the rest of its life attached to a mill. We don't really have a lot of trees in southern NJ that need a 92cc saw  Really my 038 is overkill and my 028 is right at home most of the time.


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## Wood Chopper

I started another 660 build tonight. I just buttoned up the the cylinder. For the first build I got a OEM decompression valve I just installed the one that came with the kit on this one I tried pulling the black button off and it seems pretty secure. If it does come off what is the worst thing that happens does The valve actually drop down into the cylinder? 


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## grizz55chev

Wood Chopper said:


> I started another 660 build tonight. I just buttoned up the the cylinder. For the first build I got a OEM decompression valve I just installed the one that came with the kit on this one I tried pulling the black button off and it seems pretty secure. If it does come off what is the worst thing that happens does The valve actually drop down into the cylinder?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm not sure that's what happens, I think the problem with non OEM valves is vac- pressure leaks causing lean run.


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## Wood Chopper

If that's the case it's coming back out[emoji15]


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## grizz55chev

Wood Chopper said:


> If that's the case it's coming back out[emoji15]
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


After a quick search, they can come apart and end up in the cylinder!


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## Wood Chopper

Sweet. Lol


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## Johnnybar

Wood Chopper said:


> I started another 660 build tonight. I just buttoned up the the cylinder. For the first build I got a OEM decompression valve I just installed the one that came with the kit on this one I tried pulling the black button off and it seems pretty secure. If it does come off what is the worst thing that happens does The valve actually drop down into the cylinder?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


My plastic button was very secure too...pulled hard as I could with two fingers on it and it stayed put. About half way through the 4th slabbing cut in a 10' oak log, I looked down and it was missing. The valve performed perfectly before and after it popped the button off, so I'll turn a custom aluminum replacement and lock it in place with an offset pin. When they pop they must get some good distance...never did find it. As long as the internal friction spring is holding the valve snug, I can't imagine how it could get into the cylinder...there's always positive or neutral pressure present. But I would not want to operate it long term without a button just in case the friction spring lets go.


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## Mattyo

Just fyi...if you make a custom metal piece for the decomp valve...they get hot


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## 67L36Driver

I've posted this before but worth repeating.






I have much more confidence in the Stihl offering.





I did have a landscaper fellow come by with a MS441 that had swallowed its decomp stem (OEM). Fortunetaly it caused little damage.[emoji15]


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## davhul

They will suck down into the cylinder. First they normally slam open and closed as the piston goes up and down with loss in power. The oem is molded around the stem as AM is just pushed one like in the pics. I think the heat helps the AM


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## Wood Chopper

Yes Driver you're post was the one I was thinking of. couldn't remember where I saw it. Should have searched it. 

Secondly the blow by holes seem huge. Worth the 14 bucks for oem. I'll get it going with this valve I'll place an order today on the way home from work


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## TPA

Shipping time was great for me. I got it in 8 days from payment to front door.


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## Wood Chopper

I agree this order was faster than the first. 7 days door to door


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## emanaresi

I used the one with the kit. I tried to pull the handle off to epoxy it and it wouldn't come so I used it as it was. I did lap the valve with valve lapping compound to get a better seal.

However when I ran the saw the first time I guess the heat and vibration made the button handle fall off! So, definitely epoxy it. 

If the handle comes off it probably won't fall into the cylinder, The detent on it is pretty strong. But, it could... and that would be a real bummer!!


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## Johnnybar

Mattyo said:


> Just fyi...if you make a custom metal piece for the decomp valve...they get hot


I slab gloved...never liked splinters.


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## tbohn

I ordered another 660 kit on 2/19 and it arrived today. I'm a little disappointed that the bar studs are not the new tapered style. I purchased a Vostore 56mm cylinder to go on it. The Vostore cylinder looks okay with a large base and minimal chamfering on the bottom of the bore.


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## Wood Chopper

Mine are not tapered either. I made pretty good progress tonight the only things wrong so far are the brake handle has a crack in it. Not all the way through but ... and I am missing the m6 bolts that hold the bottom of the muffler. And I'm sure I'm misssing the m5 nuts again when I attach the spikes. 


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## emanaresi

My kit didn't come with tapered studs, but I did order some spare studs as well as some extra hardware. The ones they sent as spares were the tapered ones. 

Its weird because the pic of the part on their sight is studs without the taper... Maybe worth the couple bucks to order some extras if you want the tapered ones.


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## tbohn

emanaresi said:


> My kit didn't come with tapered studs, but I did order some spare studs as well as some extra hardware. The ones they sent as spares were the tapered ones.
> 
> Its weird because the pic of the part on their sight is studs without the taper... Maybe worth the couple bucks to order some extras if you want the tapered ones.


I ordered two tapered studs off eBay for $.99 delivered. Hopefully they will be tapered like the photo in the listing.


----------



## Bedford T

Wood Chopper said:


> Mine are not tapered either. I made pretty good progress tonight the only things wrong so far are the brake handle has a crack in it. Not all the way through but ... and I am missing the m6 bolts that hold the bottom of the muffler. And I'm sure I'm misssing the m5 nuts again when I attach the spikes.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ace has m5 nuts. You could use 6mx20 with a different head until you get some T heads. I might be concerned to use the brake handle be sure you have some photos of the break in case it snaps


----------



## tbohn

tbohn said:


> I ordered another 660 kit on 2/19 and it arrived today. I'm a little disappointed that the bar studs are not the new tapered style. I purchased a Vostore 56mm cylinder to go on it. The Vostore cylinder looks okay with a large base and minimal chamfering on the bottom of the bore.


The Vostore 56mm cylinders are not good. The squish with a base gasket is good at 33 mils. The issue is there is 95 mils of freeport under the piston in the exhaust port. Yuck! I will be taking it off and sending it back.


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## Wood Chopper

Bedford T said:


> Ace has m5 nuts. You could use 6mx20 with a different head until you get some T heads. I might be concerned to use the brake handle be sure you have some photos of the break in case it snaps



Yup. I took a picture and made sure to spread the crack out a little more so the camera would show it better. I will send them the picture and ask for another one I have some extra M5 knots from the last build and yes that's what I was planning on doing getting different M6 bolts until I get the right ones. 

Roger that


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## Wood Chopper

tbohn said:


> The Vostore 56mm cylinders are not good. The squish with a base gasket is good at 33 mils. The issue is there is 95 mils of freeport under the piston in the exhaust port. Yuck! I will be taking it off and sending it back.



I was wondering about that on this build I installed the Hartsell 56 mm and it has just a touch of Freeport didn't really measure it but it should be fine hopefully. 

Did you have that much Freeport with the base gasket Tbohn?



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## tbohn

Wood Chopper said:


> I was wondering about that on this build I installed the Hartsell 56 mm and it has just a touch of Freeport didn't really measure it but it should be fine hopefully.
> 
> Did you have that much Freeport with the base gasket Tbohn?
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


95 mil freeport was with the base gasket. I built one with a Huztl 56mm and had about 12 mils without a base gasket. I'll probably order another Huztl 56mm.


----------



## Wood Chopper

Wow. Good to know. 


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## tbohn

Wood Chopper said:


> Wow. Good to know.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I also had issues will a seller called bizbest on ebay. His ad and description say 56mm but he sent me 54mm cylinders. He was just offering a discount until ebay got involved. He did refund 100% and let me keep the 54mm cylinders.


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## Wood Chopper

Fell asleep [emoji42] last night woke up this morning and buttoned her up. Started up idled pretty good. Did that a couple more times then it got hard to idle. Then I flooded it. I have heard that the 56 mm is a little finicky with the idle. I took the spark plug out put a lighter to it for a little bit and checked the spark I have really good spark so I'll let it sit for a little bit. This decompression valve sucks you have to press it every time you pull it. Like It has said before when you pull this one over you've got to commit. Lol


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## Wood Chopper

I've got gas coming straight out the muffler. Something must be stuck open in the carb?


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## tbohn

Wood Chopper said:


> I've got gas coming straight out the muffler. Something must be stuck open in the carb?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sounds flooded. They flood easily. Turn it over a bunch without the plug. I had a huztl 440 kit that had spark but would not start. Gas would come out the muffler when I tried to start it. Put on a different coil and it started right up.


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## Wood Chopper

Ok I'll try clearing it out first then I'll swap coils if no go. Thanks


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## Wood Chopper

I've got so much stuff to do around the house today it's hard not tinkering with the saw I can't let the wife catch me spinning wrenches when I should be doing stuff on the list. Lol. It's hard to stay away from it. I'll let you know tonight How it goes


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## Wood Chopper

Yuuuuup. Pulled a bunch with the plug out reset the gap on the coil just for good measure fired right up. It didn't even want the choke so I'll have to remember that


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## Bedford T

"I can't let the wife catch me spinning wrenches when I should be doing stuff on the list. Lol. "

Well said lol. It's good to respect the wife they control the meals too


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## Wood Chopper

Working on the kits at night is ideal with kids ,I can't be distracted ... and I can't make noise in the house so she can't see anything lol. I have a hard enough time focusing. Lol. If everything goes well I just keep going till my eyes get fuzzy. [emoji102]


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## tbohn

See the complete 070 powerhead on Huztl's website for $379?


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## Johnnybar

tbohn said:


> See the complete 070 powerhead on Huztl's website for $379?


Others have been able to get the 070 delivered to the USA for considerably less. See KimballCody videos on the 070 for a review of the factory assembled powerheads. Here's his unboxing to get you started:


----------



## tbohn

$379 for complete 070...I think I will wait for a kit.


----------



## Dieseldash

$379 with free shipping, but that's still a chunk of coin for a saw with unknown build quality. If they had a kit for a hundred less I'd be in. Cool looking saw I must say.


----------



## Johnnybar

They have been individually imported recently right at $300. I haven't talked myself into the 070 yet... when a 660 can be BB'd to 99cc, it's so close + modern design. On the other hand, I would not fault anyone wanting to try the 070 out.


----------



## Dieseldash

Johnnybar said:


> They have been individually imported recently right at $300. I haven't talked myself into the 070 yet... when a 660 can be BB'd to 99cc, it's so close + modern design. On the other hand, I would not fault anyone wanting to try the 070 out.




Agreed!! The 660 kit is a huge bang for the buck


----------



## tbohn

Pop on a 090 P&C and go to 137cc...


----------



## Johnnybar

tbohn said:


> Pop on a 090 P&C and go to 137cc...


And clutch, if you want to use all that torque, so I am waiting for AM 6 shoe clutches to hit relatively low pricing before I seriously consider jumping in. If a 660 clutch & drum can be sold for $6, an 090 surely could be sold for around $25 - $35.


----------



## tbohn

Johnnybar said:


> Others have been able to get the 070 delivered to the USA for considerably less. See KimballCody videos on the 070 for a review of the factory assembled powerheads. Here's his unboxing to get you started:



Does anyone know what company this saw was ordered from specifically? I am not quite comfortable ordering from Alibaba or Aliexpress yet.


----------



## davhul

Did a little cutting with a 36". Phone died


----------



## Bedford T

Fellas I think they are out of the kit business. I am not saying they will pull the current kits. I don't think we will see new kits. Why would they have a built 070 and a kit?


----------



## tbohn

Bedford T said:


> Fellas I think they are out of the kit business. I am not saying they will pull the current kits. I don't think we will see new kits. Why would they have a built 070 and a kit?


Speculation or inside scoop?


----------



## Bedford T

Bedford T said:


> Why would they have a built 070 and a kit?





tbohn said:


> Speculation or inside scoop?



I sent the guy a question. Maybe he will answer


----------



## Johnnybar

tbohn said:


> Does anyone know what company this saw was ordered from specifically? I am not quite comfortable ordering from Alibaba or Aliexpress yet.


KimballCody used Alibaba


----------



## tbohn

Johnnybar said:


> KimballCody used Alibaba


The last time I looked at 070s on Alibaba there were many companies selling many different colors. I don't think they are all created equal. I think many of them had bars and chains too. Also, most had minimum order quantities.


----------



## Johnnybar

tbohn said:


> The last time I looked at 070s on Alibaba there were many companies selling many different colors. I don't think they are all created equal. I think many of them had bars and chains too. Also, most had minimum order quantities.


You can filter "min 1" to find sellers allowing orders of 1 saw and don't pay too much attention to the color in the picture. Buyers have noted that they were expecting green or blue saws and received orange. Color likely depends on what collor pellets the plastic dept received on the last shipment. Alibaba takes a little more commitment than sites we are all familiar with but, it can pay off with good buys if you have the time.


----------



## emanaresi

I filled the bar oil a couple days ago and made a couple cuts with the saw. I went back to it yesterday to check on something and there was a small puddle of oil under it. It Does nt appear to be leaking from the cap, where else should I look for a leak? 

Is there any reason to think they will stop selling the kits they make now? If so, I may order a couple now to tinker with later.


----------



## blsnelling

Bedford T said:


> Why would they have a built 070 and a kit?


Why wouldn't they?


----------



## Wood Chopper

emanaresi said:


> I filled the bar oil a couple days ago and made a couple cuts with the saw. I went back to it yesterday to check on something and there was a small puddle of oil under it. It Does nt appear to be leaking from the cap, where else should I look for a leak?
> 
> Is there any reason to think they will stop selling the kits they make now? If so, I may order a couple now to tinker with later.



Crank halves? Wet? Or bar studs?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Bedford T

emanaresi said:


> and there was a small puddle of oil under


 since you just built your saw I would mention the seal between the pump and the hose, it's easy to over look.



The seal is sitting beside it


----------



## Bedford T

emanaresi said:


> Is there any reason to think they will stop selling the kits they make now? If so, I may order a couple now to tinker with later.



I said what I did because it conflicts with what they have said to me. They might have changed direction or maybe they just offered a 070 assembled. They do appear in their wholesale catalog. I asked and he did not answer so he is busy or did not care to answer. I know it's worked out well for them. Last year people were not talking about them or checking their website daily to see what they have done. I hope not, I really do. He is smart. He might have done this so I would say what I did and you would run to the website and buy before they run out.

If you scroll down to the bottom of their home page you will see Alibaba and Made in China mentioned and you know they sell on eBay and they sell under about 4 names just on eBay and I bet at least 6 on each on the other two sites I just mentioned. It's a good way to get more money some folks just would pay more to not build. I wonder how long one would last you did not build. I guess we will learn in the coming months


----------



## blsnelling

Bedford T said:


> since you just built your saw I would mention the seal between the pump and the hose, it's easy to over look.
> View attachment 570479
> 
> 
> The seal is sitting beside it


Nothing goes between the pump and the hose. That seal goes between the pump and the output into case. Your saw would leak like a sieve without it there.


----------



## tbohn

I looked on Alibaba for 070 saws. One called something like Green Garden has minimum quantity of two for $200 each and $139 each shipping. They include a 36 inch bar and if I remember correctly. $339 with bar doesn't sound too bad.


----------



## andrethegiant70

Ok... so I haven't posted in YEARS... I became "the boss," things got intense, and I had to put away most of my hobbies, including chainsaws. I suspect many of you are well aware of the phenomenon. But things have eased up (not the boss anymore, rather relieved about that), I'm doing a little lurking, and I even just did a full rebuild on an 026 for a buddy. I LOVE this thread. I'm going to order one, it looks super fun! But, being of mediocre intelligence, after having read all 130 pages, I'm still a touch confused about exactly where to order one. I was just going to use the Huztl website.... is there something better?

Nice to see a few old faces.


----------



## Bedford T

The kits come from farmertec so Huztl would be the place.


----------



## emanaresi

I definitely put the seal between the pump and the case (not the hose). I looked at it more closely and it looks like it is just coming from the oiler hole. 

There must be a vent for the oil tank, right? So that excessive pressure/vacuum won't build up when temps change. Is the vent in the lid? If so, maybe I'll just get a set of OEM lids, the gas lid leaks a little too.

On another note, when I was looking it over today and trying to find the leak, I noticed that the AV on the top by the carburetor (the one with the metal bracket with 2 bolt holes) has completely separated. The rubber is in no way connected to the metal anymore :-( I ran the saw 1 time to try to tune it up and the AV mount came apart. Has anyone had good luck with a farmertec one? Should I give them another shot or just go OEM?


----------



## Bedford T

I am glad that was not the problem. Here is the page out of the service manual talking about the vent. My AV there feels like a steel plate with a rubber plug in it. Have not seen an issue but yours may be the exception.


----------



## Wood Chopper

emanaresi said:


> I definitely put the seal between the pump and the case (not the hose). I looked at it more closely and it looks like it is just coming from the oiler hole.
> 
> There must be a vent for the oil tank, right? So that excessive pressure/vacuum won't build up when temps change. Is the vent in the lid? If so, maybe I'll just get a set of OEM lids, the gas lid leaks a little too.
> 
> On another note, when I was looking it over today and trying to find the leak, I noticed that the AV on the top by the carburetor (the one with the metal bracket with 2 bolt holes) has completely separated. The rubber is in no way connected to the metal anymore :-( I ran the saw 1 time to try to tune it up and the AV mount came apart. Has anyone had good luck with a farmertec one? Should I give them another shot or just go OEM?



Now that you say that after I first started mine up for a while put some oil in it it seem to ooze out of there for a while. It seemed to fix itself last night


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## emanaresi

I wonder if you fill the tank too much and don't run the saw if the oil blocks up the vent. Otherwise, maybe my vents not working right, its not a big deal, just have to remember to store it on a drip pan in the garage. But I'll se if there is something obvious.


----------



## paul99

Hi All,

This is my first post here but have been following the forum for quite a while especially this Huztl MS660 thread. I recently got one of these Farmertec ms660 kits and although this is my first time assembling a saw from scratch I have in the past had a number of other saws apart so thought I'd give it a go. Yesterday I got the crank case together (which was the bit that daunted me a bit but in the end turned out to me much much easier than I had expected). This morning I fitted the piston and cylinder and all seemed well but then ran across a problem whilst turning it over to check everything that has me totally confused.... 

With the base gasket in place and cylinder bolted down - turning the crank over by hand the saw will not reach anywhere close to TDC (or of course pass it) - the top of the piston is hitting the top of the cylinder / squish band as far as I can tell and stops with a definite metallic clunk. On releasing the cylinder bolts a little at a time (to figure out how thick a base gasket might be needed) I find that to get the saw to turn over I'd need a base gasket in excess of 5.3mm - which is clearly not right.

Here is a photo of the gap i have with the cylinder resting on the piston at TDC:






Has anyone come across this issue before and is it something I'm completely missing or is it a faulty cylinder?
Your thoughts would be appreciated...
Paul.


----------



## paul99

Having done a bit of thinking and a lot of reading it occurs to me that Farmertec make a 54mm Big Bore kit for the MS460 - I'm guessing that the stroke length would be significantly less for the MS460 - which may account for my lack of cylinder height? (if they have have indeed supplied the wrong P/C) or am I barking up the wrong tree? 

Does anyone know the rough measurements for cylinder lengths for MS660 and 54mm MS460 cylinders so I can compare what I have and rule the above in /out.


----------



## Bedford T

Using a hard ruler resting on band I get 83mm deep, 56mm across on an 660 orginial jug


----------



## Bedford T

I bet it not a 660


----------



## paul99

Bedford T said:


> Using a hard ruler resting on band I get 83mm deep, 56mm across on an 660 orginial jug



That helps a lot, thank you. As I thought my cylinder is short (73mm deep and 54 across / 56 including the bevel). I have emailed the seller. I am pretty sure now that I have indeed been sent a MS460 big bore P/C. I will keep you updated when I get a response.

Also in case it helps others I should point out that in my kit I have also found a few small bits missing - nothing new going by what I've read and watched in videos etc... 1 x M4 x 10mm pan head screw for oil pump, 1x Woodruff key and the nuts & bolts for the dogs. There maybe other bits as I get further along with the build.

***EDIT***
Also going by the photo mine is clearly wrong - I count 11 horizontal cooling fins on your original mine has only 9


----------



## grack

paul99 said:


> That helps a lot, thank you. As I thought my cylinder is short (73mm deep and 54 across / 56 including the bevel). I have emailed the seller. I am pretty sure now that I have indeed been sent a MS460 big bore P/C. I will keep you updated when I get a response.
> 
> Also in case it helps others I should point out that in my kit I have also found a few small bits missing - nothing new going by what I've read and watched in videos etc... 1 x M4 x 10mm pan head screw for oil pump, 1x Woodruff key and the nuts & bolts for the dogs. There maybe other bits as I get further along with the build.
> 
> ***EDIT***
> Also going by the photo mine is clearly wrong - I count 11 horizontal cooling fins on your original mine has only 9


Contact huztl they have been very good to me they shipped me a cylinder that wasn't tapped for the decomp.i emailed them sent photos to another address they requested they sent me two pistons and another cylinder another order they sent the wrong part's and are sending me another order right now.
Only downside is waiting sometimes over two weeks.


----------



## Johnnybar

Johnnybar said:


> My plastic button was very secure too...pulled hard as I could with two fingers on it and it stayed put. About half way through the 4th slabbing cut in a 10' oak log, I looked down and it was missing. The valve performed perfectly before and after it popped the button off, so I'll turn a custom aluminum replacement and lock it in place with an offset pin. When they pop they must get some good distance...never did find it. As long as the internal friction spring is holding the valve snug, I can't imagine how it could get into the cylinder...there's always positive or neutral pressure present. But I would not want to operate it long term without a button just in case the friction spring lets go.



Here is the prototype Aluminum compression release I mentioned. I wear gloves when milling but added cooling fins anyway...looks neater and just because I could...LOL It is bored for an extremely tight press fit so I may skip the offset pin for now.


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## emanaresi

Thats sweet! I was lucky my button fell off while the saw was idling and tuning. I found it and epoxied it back on, hopefully it stays.


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## Johnnybar

Press fit to allow minimal opening with secure retention in the open position. Added slight contour and increased height to blend in with the lines of 660's cylinder cover.


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## emanaresi

ooooh, fancy, want to send me one with those chains? I'll test it for you


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## Johnnybar

emanaresi said:


> ooooh, fancy, want to send me one with those chains? I'll test it for you


LOL You may need one if that epoxy gets too hot and fails. I believe 300F is about all that quick set epoxy can take.


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## emanaresi

hmm, not sure, I used a marine epoxy... I think its a slow set, or medium... I guess we'll see how it holds up


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## Johnnybar

emanaresi said:


> hmm, not sure, I used a marine epoxy... I think its a slow set, or medium... I guess we'll see how it holds up


Just don't let the saw get too hot... a little burble while in the cut will keep temps down considerably and let it idle a couple minutes before shutting it off after it gets a workout. Also, try to gas and oil up every 5 feet of wide slab or 8 to 10 feet of narrow slab so you never run lean. 1/3 to 1/4 tank is a good target to watch for as a minimum.


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## Bedford T

I have never paid attention to the way the filter lies in the tank but I am beginning too. My br600 only had one filter till I copied the new design of two filters. I might look at if that can be improved on in the saws while it is on It's side. Or maybe hook up a fuel line to an IV bag feeding it fuel while you are pulling on a big slab. Wonder if that would work? They have a oiler already.


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## Blairito

I just got mine in the mail it seems the case halves have 2 different bearing designs one with a metal cage and the other with the plastic type
the bar stud side has the plastic type and the bearing will not spin freely, should i be concerned? will i have to replace the bearing or would they send me a new case half, they seem like they are machined differently as well.
also the cylinder on the intake side has a slit where it looks like the casting did not go well
any idea what they can do for me


----------



## Ozhoo

That's the way the bearings are. The one with the polyamide cage is a generic 6203 bearing. If the seal was driven in too far it would drag on the bearing. Yes you should be concerned... do not proceed till you figure out the problem. Post of picture of the seal side.

The casting flash is normal. You can grind it down if you want.


----------



## Blairito

Ozhoo said:


> That's the way the bearings are. The one with the polyamide cage is a generic 6203 bearing. If the seal was driven in too far it would drag on the bearing. Yes you should be concerned... do not proceed till you figure out the problem. Post of picture of the seal side.
> 
> The casting flash is normal. You can grind it down if you want.


 its a void of metal not flashing
not sure if you can see the piston through the little slot in the top centre of the port


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## Blairito

my new phone camera doesn't seem to take up close pictures like my last


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## emanaresi

I think if they sent me that cylinder I would ask for a replacement. It does look like a defect.


----------



## Bedford T

69 2 photo at the roof you got a crack the seal look fine to me. Or maybe I am seeing it wrong with old eyes. This seal was set with the Stihl tool and it's the correct placement if that helps you compare it to your.


----------



## paul99

grack said:


> Contact huztl they have been very good to me they shipped me a cylinder that wasn't tapped for the decomp.i emailed them sent photos to another address they requested they sent me two pistons and another cylinder another order they sent the wrong part's and are sending me another order right now.
> Only downside is waiting sometimes over two weeks.



Although I ordered via UK eBay (machinerypartsstore) I suspect it's the same huztl outfit in Hong Kong. In any case I received a very apologetic email from the seller for the mistake and say that they have already dispatched the replacement cylinder. I can't fault their customer service so far and hopefully in 2 weeks or so I should be all sorted.... fingers crossed.


----------



## grack

paul99 said:


> Although I ordered via UK eBay (machinerypartsstore) I suspect it's the same huztl outfit in Hong Kong. In any case I received a very apologetic email from the seller for the mistake and say that they have already dispatched the replacement cylinder. I can't fault their customer service so far and hopefully in 2 weeks or so I should be all sorted.... fingers crossed.


There is some great American and Chinese companies with good customer service I've had no bad with the chinese and many with American companies the gun company of kimber of America can suck it lol


----------



## dswensen

On my kit 066, I had the same decomp valve failure yesterday that others have had.

I had been having the same problems others have noted here - having to push the decomp valve before each pull of the starter. On one of those pulls, the valve stem popped up and stopped like it usually does, but the black button kept on going and sailed about 6 feet away. Interestingly (to me anyway), after removing the valve, I pushed the black button back on the stem and now can't get it back off for love nor money. Not exactly sure what the failure mode is, as the button popped off of a cold engine that hadn't been started yet (as in not hot yet).

I did see however that without the black button, there is nothing but a detent to keep the valve stem from falling into the cylinder. That's not OK with me, so an OEM valve will be installed.

Just keep an eye on yours.


----------



## grack

That's the first thing i replace or delete too many problems with them.


----------



## dswensen

grack said:


> That's the first thing i replace or delete too many problems with them.



I eliminated the decomp valve on the 044 I built, but the 066 has more resistance to the pull-starter than I care to deal with without the decomp.


----------



## grack

dswensen said:


> I eliminated the decomp valve on the 044 I built, but the 066 has more resistance to the pull-starter than I care to deal with without the decomp.


Absolutely I've been working on some 372 china saws 50mm no decomp but the 52 big bore is a handful i know the 660s will be fun to start as well lol


----------



## RoverRebellion

Just ordered my kit today from Huztl and also ordered my 56mm cylinder and piston kit. I chose the EasySaw/HyWay brand due to the excellent thickness of the Nikasil plating and casting quality the seller showed me. Also it comes with the circlips which have the ears removed for less rotating mass. 


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## Wood Chopper

RoverRebellion said:


> Just ordered my kit today from Huztl and also ordered my 56mm cylinder and piston kit. I chose the EasySaw/HyWay brand due to the excellent thickness of the Nikasil plating and casting quality the seller showed me. Also it comes with the circlips which have the ears removed for less rotating mass.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



When you get it I'd be interested to see what you have for Freeport if any. 


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## RoverRebellion

Wood Chopper said:


> When you get it I'd be interested to see what you have for Freeport if any.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I am certainly going to post my findings. 


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## Dale Bundy

I got my Huztl ms660 kit last week was missing two m6 screws for muffler and the chain roller catcher thing, they are sending them to me ,other than that got it together in 3 hours, passed vacuum test & got it running, running good but the carb is a pain in the but to adjust, going to put a tillotson hs-320a on her this weekend, that should make it easier to adjust for the proper tune.


----------



## Charlie Pendleton

I ordered a 365/372 kit with the 52mm big bore cylinder 10 days ago. It took 3 days for them to ship it out because they were missing parts. I hope they got everything in the box. Listening to all your comments of missing parts I don't have high hopes, lol
A couple more days will tell all, it's leaving Los Angeles headed to Idaho.


----------



## Johnnybar

Blairito said:


> its a void of metal not flashing
> not sure if you can see the piston through the little slot in the top centre of the port


I would request a replacement cylinder.


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## RoverRebellion

I ordered a 56mm EasySaw piston and cylinder kit so I'll gladly part with my 54mm piston and jug for a nominal cost when my kit arrives for anyone interested 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## RoverRebellion

Dale Bundy said:


> I got my Huztl ms660 kit last week was missing two m6 screws for muffler and the chain roller catcher thing, they are sending them to me ,other than that got it together in 3 hours, passed vacuum test & got it running, running good but the carb is a pain in the but to adjust, going to put a tillotson hs-320a on her this weekend, that should make it easier to adjust for the proper tune.



Keep me posted on the results with the Tilly carb. I was considering the same idea. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## weimedog

For completeness..I've assembled these 660 cases with a press; with ONLY heat, sockets, and a brass hammer.....and now with home built tools. Point? Many ways to skin a cat. Did this just to hammer home that important point..


----------



## jakemce89

I order my 660 kit and it turns out huztl shipped me a piston for a 54 mm ms 460. I realize the skirt is shorter than the ms 660 piston but I have a parts 660 saw I'm putting together, can I run a 54mm ms 460 piston in the 660 cylinder?


----------



## emanaresi

Probably not. The dimension from the wrist pin to the bottom of the skirt and from the top of the piston to the wrist pin all have to match to the jug. In a 2 stroke that determines the timing and whether or not there is free port.


----------



## jakemce89

I have already contacted Huztl and have the correct piston inroute but I wonder if the saw would even run with the 460 54mm piston Where does the length of the piston skirt come into play? I understand the tolerance for too long of a skirt hitting the crank but what would a shorter skirt affect? And would the difference in wrist pin to top of piston (I assume shorter distance than a 54mm 660 piston) affect the combustion?


----------



## emanaresi

If the piston skirt is too short then when the piston is at TDC you can have freeport. The piston skirt is supposed to close off the exhaust port at TDC meanwhile, the intake port is open. If the skirt is too short it could leave the exhaust port open slightly while the intake port is open. It may run ok like this or it may not.

As far as height to top of piston, it is similar issues, the ports will open and close at different degrees before and after TDC. It could also cause issues with either very high or low compression. You probably won't damage anything if you try it, but it may not run well.

Throw it together and see how it runs... maybe it'll work fantastic.


----------



## blsnelling

Is the wrist pin the same size?


----------



## jakemce89

I found some more info, thoughts? 

Stihl 066 660 54mm
Piston Pin 12mm x 8mm x 33mm
Pin top to top of Piston 17mm
Height 43mm


Stihl 046 460 Big Bore 54mm
Piston Pin 12mm x 7mm x 35mm
Pin to top of Piston 15.5mm
Height 36.5mm


----------



## blsnelling

That's a significant crown height and skirt length difference.


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## Johnnybar

jakemce89 said:


> I order my 660 kit and it turns out huztl shipped me a piston for a 54 mm ms 460. I realize the skirt is shorter than the ms 660 piston but I have a parts 660 saw I'm putting together, can I run a 54mm ms 460 piston in the 660 cylinder?


I wouldn't but are you certain you did receive a 660 cylinder? Mount the piston (no rings installed) to the rod and drop the cylinder on. What does it look like at TDC and can you rotate the crank freely? 660's have 40mm strokes and i think 460 strokes were in the mid 30's.


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## jakemce89

Yes, the cylinder is off of a parts 660.I threw the piston and cylinder on. Everything seemed to rotate and move freely so I just entertained myself and fired it up, it seems to run good...like I said this is a parts/cyclops saw so I don't have much in it.


----------



## Johnnybar

jakemce89 said:


> Yes, the cylinder is off of a parts 660.I threw the piston and cylinder on. Everything seemed to rotate and move freely so I just entertained myself and fired it up, it seems to run good...like I said this is a parts/cyclops saw so I don't have much in it.


If your measurements are accurate, the 460 piston skirt sits 5mm higher in relation to the piston pin than a 660 piston would. That's 5mm / 0.200" more contribution toward potential freebore but it sounds like it's handling it OK.


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## jakemce89

Since there is a difference in center of wristpin to top of piston would that change the combustion, what would a larger combustion space do? More compression? Less compression? The saw seems to run as normal, not saying that I will keep it like this when the 660 piston comes in


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## emanaresi

You have a lower compression ratio if the space above the piston at TDC is larger. That is why people worry about the "squish" or space between the piston and squish band in the cylinder. The goal is to minimize it within reason to get the compression ratio as high as is practical. 

Your saw may be running, and it may pull a chain through wood just fine, after all, it is still a big saw, but here is no way it is running "normal".


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## jakemce89

A simple compression test will confirm lowered compression. Is that why guys aren't putting in base gaskets? It gets them less space between the piston and cylinder resulting in more compression?


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## emanaresi

Yeah, thats right. A compression will not tell you the compression ratio. If everything is perfect between 2 engines, the one with a higher cr will have a higher reading on the compression gauge. But there are a lot of factors that go into what your compression gauge reads. The compression ratio is the ratio of the max and minimum size of the combustion chamber.


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## emanaresi

Most guys set squish around .020 (.508mm) when setting up a saw. 

Your 046 piston is has .059 (1.5mm) more squish clearance than an 066 piston. 

I am not surprised the saw runs. I am surprised you can't tell the difference between it and a proper 066. I would expect it to be down on power, significantly.


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## jakemce89

So obviously a base gasket isn't required when assembling the saws? I've ran other 660's before but I can't seem to tell a significant difference in power?!?


----------



## emanaresi

I certainly wouldn't use a base gasket with that 046 piston. On my huztl, I made a base gasket from soda can because it was too tight with no gasket.


----------



## emanaresi

I just received all the bits and pieces from huztl that were missing/damaged in my kit. I was able to get them to ship me the shutter for the air box and the bushings for the top cover! Just wanted everyone to know that Huztl does have access to them.


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## Johnnybar

emanaresi said:


> I just received all the bits and pieces from huztl that were missing/damaged in my kit. I was able to get them to ship me the shutter for the air box and the bushings for the top cover! Just wanted everyone to know that Huztl does have access to them.


 So what was the final word from Huztl as to items they cannot provide? Heat foil comes to mind as one possibility?


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## Wood Chopper

Instead of sending 2 pounds of extra rubber pieces it would be nice to start getting those in the kits. Wonder if they have always had access or they finally heard us and started making them or getting them????


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## Johnnybar

jakemce89 said:


> So obviously a base gasket isn't required when assembling the saws? I've ran other 660's before but I can't seem to tell a significant difference in power?!?


Yes and no depending on how you look at it. A "base gasket" is required to seal cylinder to deck...it's just a matter of how thick it is and what material it is made of. My "gasket" is Threebond 1184 applied to both surfaces and well skinned over before assembly.


----------



## RoverRebellion

Johnnybar said:


> Yes and no depending on how you look at it. A "base gasket" is required to seal cylinder to deck...it's just a matter of how thick it is and what material it is made of. My "gasket" is Threebond 1184 applied to both surfaces and well skinned over before assembly.



This is what I'm going to do with my build when I receive it. Considering I ordered my kit about a week ago, what is the likelyhood of it having the shutters, etc.? 

I also wanted to take a moment and recommend Wolf Creek Saw Shop... got my big bore kit from them and they treated me like a king when I had an issue with the cylinder. They didn't even bother with a bunch of back and forth email - they called me immediately and worked with me to come up with a great solution for all involved. They have an eBay store as well as a website. I'm not involved with them in any way, I just wanted to pass along a great source for 660 big bore kits.

Lastly I've looked at NWP, Hyway cylinders and I can tell you the Nikasil plating on the Hyway cylinders is amazingly thick. This will be my cylinder of choice for this build and future builds. 


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## emanaresi

Wood Chopper said:


> Instead of sending 2 pounds of extra rubber pieces it would be nice to start getting those in the kits. Wonder if they have always had access or they finally heard us and started making them or getting them????
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



That is a good question. I had to file a paypal dispute to get them motivated. They provided all of the parts I requested including another carb, but no heat tape. I think thats the only thing they don't have.

They also gave me a partial credit for a couple things that popped up after they shipped the parts.


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## emanaresi

RoverRebellion said:


> This is what I'm going to do with my build when I receive it. Considering I ordered my kit about a week ago, what is the likelyhood of it having the shutters, etc.?
> 
> I also wanted to take a moment and recommend Wolf Creek Saw Shop... got my big bore kit from them and they treated me like a king when I had an issue with the cylinder. They didn't even bother with a bunch of back and forth email - they called me immediately and worked with me to come up with a great solution for all involved. They have an eBay store as well as a website. I'm not involved with them in any way, I just wanted to pass along a great source for 660 big bore kits.
> 
> Lastly I've looked at NWP, Hyway cylinders and I can tell you the Nikasil plating on the Hyway cylinders is amazingly thick. This will be my cylinder of choice for this build and future builds.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



My guess is there is very little chance it will include the shutter, bushings for top cover, nuts for felling dogs, or bolts for muffler.


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## RoverRebellion

emanaresi said:


> My guess is there is very little chance it will include the shutter, bushings for top cover, nuts for felling dogs, or bolts for muffler.



I assume you remedy this with OEM parts?


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## RoverRebellion

emanaresi said:


> That is a good question. I had to file a paypal dispute to get them motivated. They provided all of the parts I requested including another carb, but no heat tape. I think thats the only thing they don't have.
> 
> They also gave me a partial credit for a couple things that popped up after they shipped the parts.



Forgive my ignorance, where would this heat tape be placed?


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## dswensen

RoverRebellion said:


> Forgive my ignorance, where would this heat tape be placed?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Underneath the muffler, on top of the case.

Not sure what all the fuss is about over the foil/heat tape. As Brad Snelling has mentioned, Ace Hardware carries 3M foil tape by to roll with their HVAC stuff. Get a roll - use an Exacto knife - and you're done. That's what I did on my 066 and 044 kits. Works fine.


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## Ozhoo

RoverRebellion said:


> Forgive my ignorance, where would this heat tape be placed?



Atop the crankcase to keep the muffler from scorching the crankcase. Also a good habit to use it on the underside of the cylinder cover above the muffler.


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## RoverRebellion

Ozhoo said:


> Atop the crankcase to keep the muffler from scorching the crankcase. Also a good habit to use it on the underside of the cylinder cover above the muffler.
> View attachment 572914



Excellent advice. Thank you. This is what I will do. 


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## emanaresi

Yeah, it is no bg deal to just use aluminum duct tape. It is just that it is part of the saw, and not included with the "complete parts" kit. I guess sorta a matter of principle, but one that they are winning, it really is no big deal.

As far as the missing parts, you could buy them on ebay or locally or you can bug huztl and they will ship them to you. But you then have to wait for shipping from China.


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## Blairito

seems my clutch drum is out of round, I don't have the tools to measure it, but it wants to turn the cylinder when i turn the sprocket, i am waiting on some missing items to be able to run it


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## Johnnybar

Blairito said:


> seems my clutch drum is out of round, I don't have the tools to measure it, but it wants to turn the cylinder when i turn the sprocket, i am waiting on some missing items to be able to run it


Will the drum slip on and spin freely on the bearing if you turn the drum around? There have been several under spec bearing race ID's on drums that forum members have received lately. Also make sure the three clutch shoes are seated in the idle position with no burrs, flashing or foreign material keeping them from fully seating inward.


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## RoverRebellion

Just got updated that mine has cleared customs and should be on its way to me. 


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## paul99

Johnnybar said:


> Will the drum slip on and spin freely on the bearing if you turn the drum around? There have been several under spec bearing race ID's on drums that forum members have received lately. Also make sure the three clutch shoes are seated in the idle position with no burrs, flashing or foreign material keeping them from fully seating inward.



My clutch bearing was a bad one too and was causing similar symptoms. Picking up an oem tomorrow which I'm hoping sorts it. 

On a more positive note my replacement p/c arrived today (only took 8 days ). Also the "missing" m5 oil pump screws and woodruff key showed up . After finishing the puzzle a little while ago the final tally of missing bits was actually only two nuts for the dogs, two nuts for the carb, the two m6 x 20 muffler screws (supplied m5 x 20 instead), the summer / winter slide and heat reflective tape.

If all goes to plan it'll get its first run tomorrow evening fingers crossed...


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## Wood Chopper

Thats interesting I got 2nd 660 around same time as you and they sent the m5 screws instead of the m6 as well. And those screws for the muffler are packaged together. So it seems to be whoever is packaging the small bags that day or days is making the mistakes. Maybe the employees rotate jobs. 


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## dswensen

Wood Chopper said:


> Thats interesting I got 2nd 660 around same time as you and they sent the m5 screws instead of the m6 as well. And those screws for the muffler are packaged together. So it seems to be whoever is packaging the small bags that day or days is making the mistakes. Maybe the employees rotate jobs.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Me too - M5 instead of M6.


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## RoverRebellion

Oh no my kit is arriving today and I fear the m5 bolt issue may be same for me as well. I will post my package contents when it arrives


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## Wood Chopper

Yeah I went to my hard ware store picked up some M6 Phillips head bolts along with more m5 nuts. Ordered the right bolts cause god forbid I have two bolts that are not The same as the restLol


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## RoverRebellion

My kit has arrived! I took full inventory and the only missing item is the oiler bolt. There is only 1 and there should be two. The season shutter IS present as well as the heat foil!



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## Bedford T

That was a long battle. Huztl did good.


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## paul99

It turns out the clutch bearing was not at fault in my case after all as the oem bearing didn't improve things - the drum was still too tight on the bearing / shaft. An oem drum would have been the easiest, quickest option but I chose to lap / polish the bore of the supplied drum with a very simple turned wooden mandrel wrapped in wet & dry. It was a slow process making sure not to enlarge the bore any more than necessary but I'm happy to report it worked great leaving a finish far better than any oem drum I've seen.

With the M6 muffler bolts added it was time to see if it would start. I was expecting a wrestling match but it popped on 4th pull with choke and fired next pull on hi idle - no carb adjustments needed to have it run rich where it will remain for the first few tanks.

So far I'm certainly very impressed by how well it runs just as a stock saw. So much so that the plan to improve the squish and spend time polishing the ports etc having confirmed its a runner, have for now, been shelved - to be revisited when I have more free time.


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## Wood Chopper

Nice [emoji106] glad it worked out and she breathes. 


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## RoverRebellion

Turns out I celebrated too soon. My intake boot was damaged and incomplete moulded so I'll need to get an oem one. 

Has anyone else skipped the cylinder gasket and bolted directly to crank case? I have a hyway big bore and it has zero free port even when bolted on like that. The compression is so much that you absolutely could not start it with a plugged decomp valve. 


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## Wood Chopper

Many are using 3 bond 1184/1194 or similar on crank and cylinder. Let it dry a little and good to go. Obviously check you squish. 


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## Johnnybar

RoverRebellion said:


> Turns out I celebrated too soon. My intake boot was damaged and incomplete moulded so I'll need to get an oem one.
> 
> Has anyone else skipped the cylinder gasket and bolted directly to crank case? I have a hyway big bore and it has zero free port even when bolted on like that. The compression is so much that you absolutely could not start it with a plugged decomp valve.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I went with 1184 only for .020" squish.


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## tbohn

Johnnybar said:


> I went with 1184 only for .020" squish.


I used Permatex Motoseal 1 on a Huztl 56mm. The squish was .023 but I did have about .012 Freeport. I can't pull it over without the decomp which also means I can't get a reading on the compression. This build is noticeably stronger than a 54mm build without base gasket.


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## Blairito

it seems my tank leaks along the seam, also it looks like the halves don't meet 100% do you think they will replace the tank, do i have to ship the bad one back usually? my clutch drum is no longer binding, i ran the saw a bit with no bar and now its free, took it apart and all the parts look good.


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## Bedford T

Show them where it's leaking. They will send you another be clear


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## RoverRebellion

OK guys shes all together. And she SCREAMS right out of the box. No idle problems here, and High jet seemed set perfect out of the box. Final tally is i have a TON of leftover rubber parts, and was missing a few M5x12 and M4x10 bolts but thats about it.
To aid in your sanity, set LOW jet to "All the way seated, and 1.25 turns out". Tune it from there! 
Let me also say that I had no issues using a big scoop of common sense and using the case screws to mate the halves together. 
I DID use the hot/cold method to seat the clutch side in the crank.
I DID NOT use a cylinder gasket and used 1184 on the cylinder and crankcase deck.
Cylinder is an EasySaw MS660 56mm big bore kit from Wolf Creek Saw Shop. THERE IS ZERO FREE PORT IN MY BUILD USING THIS EASYSAW PART KIT. (And awesome customer service too!)
Cylinder squish using the above kit was a tight .017. I wont worry about it until it becomes an issue. Saw runs awesome.
I DID use Caber 56mm rings.
The saw is EXTREMELY difficult to start without a decomp valve when cold because compression is so high. It will make your right arm bigger for reasons that wont be obvious to anyone else, have a story ready.
Lastly, the decomp valve button has popped off a few times already. It will be replaced with oem.


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## Johnnybar

My HuMS660 ( that's my new nickname for the Huztl MS660) has been a doozie of a saw for the money and build ease. Cut the 5th slab a couple days ago...so that makes 6 rip cuts on the 32" x 10' red oak so far. Boy, all that lightening sure did a number on it.


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## Bedford T

So you think it will make it through at least a few more cuts?  I saw a huge walnut that was just cut and was going to stop after I ran an errand and ask permission. By time I got back someone else was loading that baby up to take it to a Miller.


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## Johnnybar

Bedford T said:


> So you think it will make it through at least a few more cuts?  I saw a huge walnut that was just cut and was going to stop after I ran an errand and ask permission. By time I got back someone else was loading that baby up to take it to a Miller.


I think as long as I did my part on aligning the crank bearings properly, it will last a long time if fed good mix and ran with common sense. We'll see... I have a 35' and 15' pair of oak logs waiting.


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## RoverRebellion

Are you guys doing the official 50:1 mix on these?


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## Johnnybar

Break in and the first 5 slabs have been on 33:1 @ 60 ml per 2 liter, full synthetic...basically same as 32:1 @ 4 oz / gal. I wouldn't go any lighter than 40:1 for intermittent cutting and likely will stay with 33:1 for milling. The 50:1 saws all have true nikasil cylinders which I am told hold an oil film much better than chrome does. 
PS; OEM bearings likely tolerate less oil than Chinese knockoffs too.


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## emanaresi

Also, if I understand, the spec of 50:1 is really in the interest of meeting EPA requirements, not in the interest of making your equipment run better and last longer. I run everything on 40:1 or better.


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## Boomer 87

Does anyone on here have alot of cutting time on one of these builds?

I am curious bc im getting into milling and wondered how the saws durability is after decent time on mill duty


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## Bedford T

The kits went on sale last July or August if memory serves me right. That's all the data we have


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## Bedford T

I thinking milling @ 32:1 is a good idea. I use 40:1 in everything. I got quailty bearing in my 660 kit.


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## davhul

I gave a couple I built to my friends that cut. One has about 8 gallons ran through it and the other about 5. Both with a different mix of oem parts. 
I plan on getting the first one back and tearing it down to put in a oem wrist pin bearing. Then I can see how it's wearing. I told him 40:1 but it's whatever brand mix they use. Running a 32" bar.


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## Johnnybar

Boomer 87 said:


> Does anyone on here have alot of cutting time on one of these builds?
> 
> I am curious bc im getting into milling and wondered how the saws durability is after decent time on mill duty


A few have mentioned several hundred hours on them and had no complaints. Overall, I just can't see how you could beat the things for value. Maybe if you had access to some straight gassed powerheads for 50$-100$ and added a jug kit, you could end up with a lower investment but 660's aren't common and definitely don't get thrown out for cheap around my parts.


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## stinkbait

I decided to get one of these to try for myself. I really don't care that its not a real ms660 because, chances are, I will never be able to justify buying a real one. The way I look at it, it's all just for fun anyway. Anyway, I read all of the problems most folks were having before attempting to assemble mine. My crankcase halves went together perfectly, piston and rings looked good. The wrist pin, bearing, and clips fit nicely also. The cylinder looked great. No rough casting marks in the ports, and all the ports looked symmetrical with good beveling on the edges. My gas cap came with an o-ring already installed for a seal, but I chose to swap it with the flat rubber seal that also came with the kit. It seemed to seal a lot better that way. So far no leaks. The chain brake linkage was wrong. The link that connects to the chain brake handle was flipped around the wrong way. I used vise grips to squeeze the rivets holding the linkage together and disassembled it and flipped that link around. I hammered the rivets back down and the chain brake works flawlessly now. The sprocket drum fit nicely during assembly, but after running the saw a while it started getting tight and backed off the crankshaft messing up the retaining washer and e-clip. From what I've read it seems to be the drum and not the bearing. The other issue I have had is the throttle linkage wont let the carb come back to idle everytime. I plan to work on that next. Maybe bend on the linkage some. The saw tuned fine with the chinese carb, but the adjustment screws are set out farther that they should be to reach tune. I don't know if the metering leaver is set at the incorrect height or if it's a metering spring issue. Gonna take it off and look at it when I mess with the throttle linkage. So far those are the only issues I have found. The saw is very strong with loads of compression. I put a chinese 28" bar and chain combo on it also. It pulled that combo great until the clutch drum walked off the crankshaft. Here's the only pic I have on me right now. I will try to post more as I deal with the issues I have found so far.


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## TPA

Wow, no OEM parts!


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## stinkbait

The plan is to keep it that way. I read where some have honed the id of the clutch drum with success, but I have also seen comments against doing that since it's a bearing surface. We will see.


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## davhul

One of mine the clutch came loose twice and wedged itself against the drum. Which made it hard to get the washer and clip off. 
First time it was torqued to spec and the second time I hit it with my 3/8 impact. I finally ended up putting some blue loctight on it.
When using a impact damage to the clutch/crank or shearing the flywheel key could happen.


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## stinkbait

davhul said:


> One of mine the clutch came loose twice and wedged itself against the drum. Which made it hard to get the washer and clip off.
> First time it was torqued to spec and the second time I hit it with my 3/8 impact. I finally ended up putting some blue loctight on it.
> When using a impact damage to the clutch/crank or shearing the flywheel key could happen.




Thanks for the tip.


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## Johnnybar

Under what conditions is the clutch backing itself off? I haven't seen any issues related to it at all on my 100% huztl 660 and I just snugged it down with a small wrench and a piston stop in place.


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## X 66 Stang347 X

Only on my last saw for me. First time it happened it was on first startup and second time was during tuning and cutting. 
It hasn't came loose since
I usually put a few clutches on a week on oem saws and never had one come off. 
Except a husky that I free reved without a bar. The clutch hit the floor and took off out the door and up the hill. Lol. and that was a new saw


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## Johnnybar

X 66 Stang347 X said:


> Only on my last saw for me. First time it happened it was on first startup and second time was during tuning and cutting.
> It hasn't came loose since
> I usually put a few clutches on a week on oem saws and never had one come off.
> Except a husky that I free reved without a bar. The clutch hit the floor and took off out the door and up the hill. Lol. and that was a new saw


That's hilarious. Bet you almost jumped as high as the time the buddies in metal shop class filled part of a 40'x12" pipe with acetylene and lit it off. It almost knocked the doors and windows out of the shop building.


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## X 66 Stang347 X

I knew someone that did that at pep boys and cracked the store front glass [emoji33]


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## Big_Wood

Johnnybar said:


> Under what conditions is the clutch backing itself off? I haven't seen any issues related to it at all on my 100% huztl 660 and I just snugged it down with a small wrench and a piston stop in place.



you should be doing it with a half inch impact with the stop in place. the backing off is likely a saw assembled with a hand tight clutch and then turned over a few times by hand pulling the rope. the slow movement through compression cycles will cause the clutch to back off against the clutch drum making it very difficult to remove the clip on a stihl with the solid retaining washer. the huskies and stamped washer stihls are not bad when it happens though. i just zap clutches snug with a 1/4" impact. it won't get ones that have been on for years off but most clutches recently assembled come off with it. i've never had a course thread clutch that i recall where the 1/4" impact couldn't get it off. the old impact is getting tired now though.


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## Johnnybar

westcoaster90 said:


> you should be doing it with a half inch impact with the stop in place. the backing off is likely a saw assembled with a hand tight clutch and then turned over a few times by hand pulling the rope. the slow movement through compression cycles will cause the clutch to back off against the clutch drum making it very difficult to remove the clip on a stihl with the solid retaining washer. the huskies and stamped washer stihls are not bad when it happens though. i just zap clutches snug with a 1/4" impact. it won't get ones that have been on for years off but most clutches recently assembled come off with it. i've never had a course thread clutch that i recall where the 1/4" impact couldn't get it off. the old impact is getting tired now though.


Some of the 1/4" impact drivers do over 100 ftlbs...even the harbor freight cheapies spec almost 90 ftlbs so they must be pretty snug if installed with an impact. IIRC they call for about 40-50 ftlbs in the specs depending which manual you look at.


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## Big_Wood

Johnnybar said:


> Some of the 1/4" impact drivers do over 100 ftlbs...even the harbor freight cheapies spec almost 90 ftlbs so they must be pretty snug if installed with an impact. IIRC they call for about 40-50 ftlbs in the specs depending which manual you look at.



the 1/4" are good for it but they won't get many old stuck on clutches off. i doubt you'd get more then 30 ft/lbs on a clutch out of one but it doesn't matter how tight the clutch is. just snug it up so it doesn't come lose and it will tighten when you cut wood. i don't follow torque specs except in some automotive and marine applications. always just tightened fasteners on saws by feel and never have issues with screws coming loose.


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## Johnnybar

westcoaster90 said:


> the 1/4" are good for it but they won't get many old stuck on clutches off. i doubt you'd get more then 30 ft/lbs on a clutch out of one but it doesn't matter how tight the clutch is. just snug it up so it doesn't come lose and it will tighten when you cut wood. i don't follow torque specs except in some automotive and marine applications. always just tightened fasteners on saws by feel and never have issues with screws coming loose.


Same here...never pulled out a torque wrench or screwdriver on a saw. I guess milling with it's continuous pull on the clutch is also less likely to spin a clutch off than rev-idle-rev-idle use.


----------



## Dale Bundy

Update on My Hutzl ms660, got two tanks run though her, I felt that it sounded off, so I ripped her apart to find that the piston at top dead is hitting the cylinder enough to leave a mark on the top of the piston not hard enough to feel if turned over by hand. Has any one hard of this problem? I used base gasket supplied with kit.


----------



## tbohn

Mine had marks like that from shipping. The only issue had of the piston hitting the top of the cylinder with the base gasket installed was on a Huztl 52mm on a ms440.

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## Dale Bundy

Had no marks from shipping had some foam shoved in the cylinder, I wish that was my case, but the good news is locally there was a new oem 066 cylinder for $75, I garbed it now it has more compression & more power, now you have to use to decompression valve to start it with the small pull grip provided. so problem was fixed in a positive way.


----------



## twinstaged

Check the squish and see if is really is a clearance issue. Not loose on the wrist pin or anywhere else down the line?


----------



## Dale Bundy

I did check out the rest but not the Squish everything looked & felt good. I just gave up on that hutzl cylinder when I was on craigslist and found a stihl OEM 066 cylinder with piston for $75, I will look at it with the next build I do if i do.


----------



## tbohn

I purchased a couple of 28 inch bars from Huztl. They were about $45 each with chain delivered. They are laminated and seem about the same quality of a Forester bar.


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## tbohn

Photos...


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## twinstaged

Well I finally sat down and put mine together. I had to machine .009" off the base so it wouldn't rock around. Polished up the squish band and it sat right at .020 squish no base gasket. Cylinder plating and just the feel of it doesn't seem worth porting so I'll order another cylinder late. It does pull a 32 inch bar through maple. Carb has issues idling down consistently, but I'll keep messing with it.


----------



## Johnnybar

Dale Bundy said:


> Update on My Hutzl ms660, got two tanks run though her, I felt that it sounded off, so I ripped her apart to find that the piston at top dead is hitting the cylinder enough to leave a mark on the top of the piston not hard enough to feel if turned over by hand. Has any one hard of this problem? I used base gasket supplied with kit.
> 
> View attachment 579453


A squish test will definitively tell you the story on that but I think it is unlikely that it is hitting. Mine was lightly marked from shipping also.


----------



## Johnnybar

twinstaged said:


> Well I finally sat down and put mine together. I had to machine .009" off the base so it wouldn't rock around. Polished up the squish band and it sat right at .020 squish no base gasket. Cylinder plating and just the feel of it doesn't seem worth porting so I'll order another cylinder late. It does pull a 32 inch bar through maple. Carb has issues idling down consistently, but I'll keep messing with it.


You may have to bent the tab on the throttle lever, tweek the linkage or bevel the edges of the butterfly if that is preventing full closure of the throttle.


----------



## twinstaged

Yep been there this morning. Ground the stop back and reshape the butterfly, while it's better it's still giving me **** lol. I'm already 2 plus full turns out on the high side too. I need to pull the rest of it apart and either drill the jet or just buck up and put a real walbro on her.


----------



## twinstaged

Does anyone's master control switch actually hold high idle?


----------



## Bedford T

Yes, they were fixed long ago. All detailed here


----------



## gary courtney

Bedford T said:


> Yes, they were fixed long ago. All detailed here


did your 070 come with dawgs


----------



## X 66 Stang347 X

High idle is also engaged during choke. May would have a hard to start when cold if it doesn't work


----------



## tbohn

twinstaged said:


> Does anyone's master control switch actually hold high idle?


None have worked on mine but they all still start fine.


----------



## davhul

I couldn't stand it not working so I had to fix it. And also I was giving the 3 I built to friends so they had to work.


----------



## twinstaged

Yep it's driving my me nuts. Is the fix oem parts? I've de burred everything and the parts just aren't right to keep the throttle off the stop.


----------



## twinstaged

I should say it did work the first couple starts.


----------



## davhul

It's been months since I've done it. I can show on a oem tomorrow if I can't explain it. 
The problem is the far left slot in the Orange housing that the control rod rides in. It's too loose. You would think it's to tight by the way it acts. One of my temp fixes was to cut a small square out of a leather glove and put it behind the control rod to tighten it up some when you put the handle cover back on. 
I think one person used a thin sleeve over the rod end also.


----------



## twinstaged

Yeah I tried that today with rubber, but it was squishy stuff. I'll have to try again with something stiffer. If the oem stuff will work my local dealer is always very fair on the pricing.


----------



## davhul

I put a OE control switch and still acted up. But it felt better and stiffer


----------



## twinstaged

Put a piece of hard polyurethane tubing in there and it worked out. Thanks for the help.


----------



## davhul

That's Good to know. I played with a few different thickness til I found what worked.


----------



## 67L36Driver

660 parts kit I ordered May 18 got here today.

It sat on the porch all afternoon as I wasn't expecting it yet.[emoji15]


----------



## Probablywillforget

Well...you guys got me. I ordered the 30th of April, received it in early may.

My box had the brass grommets for the top plastic and weather deflector air thing that seemed to be missing on the earlier kits. All it seemed to be missing was the name plate. The inside diameter of the clutch drum was too small, I replaced it with an Oregon and added an 8 pin rim sprocket.

I decked my cylinder .018 and used the base gasket to end up with .023 squish. The Chinese muffler was smaller than the exhaust port by quite a bit. I cut out the baffle and opened it up. I also noticed that the Chinese carb didn't have a notch in the throttle plate like the walbro I have... I filed one in. I should have tried to run it before I did that...oh well.

I plan to get it running and tuned and post a video. 

The build was fun, thanks guys. 

I bought a 572 kit at the same time, if there is a similar thread for those I would appreciate if someone would link it or pm me.


----------



## 67L36Driver

Piston crown to combustion chamber is less than .019" on this one. Prolly around .015".

Base gasket is a must.


----------



## Mattyo

Probablywillforget said:


> Well...you guys got me. I ordered the 30th of April, received it in early may.
> 
> My box had the brass grommets for the top plastic and weather deflector air thing that seemed to be missing on the earlier kits. All it seemed to be missing was the name plate. The inside diameter of the clutch drum was too small, I replaced it with an Oregon and added an 8 pin rim sprocket.
> 
> I decked my cylinder .018 and used the base gasket to end up with .023 squish. The Chinese muffler was smaller than the exhaust port by quite a bit. I cut out the baffle and opened it up. I also noticed that the Chinese carb didn't have a notch in the throttle plate like the walbro I have... I filed one in. I should have tried to run it before I did that...oh well.
> 
> I plan to get it running and tuned and post a video.
> 
> The build was fun, thanks guys.
> 
> I bought a 572 kit at the same time, if there is a similar thread for those I would appreciate if someone would link it or pm me.



I have bolt for bolt vids on my youtube channel. ...check the link in my sig. Not quite done editing the 372 yet....but it's almost done


----------



## Probablywillforget

Mattyo said:


> I have bolt for bolt vids on my youtube channel. ...check the link in my sig. Not quite done editing the 372 yet....but it's almost done


 
I have watched a bunch of you and Walt's videos My wife would like to have a word with both of you. I did the 660 with a thermal assembly, but I plan to copy your no heat setup for the husky. Thanks to you and Walt for putting it out there, without your vids I probably wouldn't have had the juice to attempt this.


----------



## Mattyo

Ambition.....much harder to come by than money. If I gave ya some ambition...then im happy!

You are welcome to copy the tool design...but if ya get frustrated. ..let me know and I'll see what I can do about getting you a set. They really take away all the worry and fuss about putting cases together. 

Best of luck


----------



## 67L36Driver

'Ears' on the Farmertec 066/660 wrist pin retainers are stupid long.





Shortened them with my Dremel cut off disc.

I would have remove them entirely but might be handy in the event of trouble.


----------



## 67L36Driver

And, again like the MS361s I built, the muffler gasket is cardboard trash.

Hole for decomp valve was tapped with a POS.


----------



## Probablywillforget

Welp, the hand filed notch in the carb was a bit too deep. Got the carb tuned and was able to adjust the idle down, went to hit the throttle and the trigger was stuck. The idle screw was backed out enough that most of the linkage was on the flat instead of the taper. Might try to file clearance since I have nothing to lose. The low screw was a turn out but the high was out over two.


----------



## 67L36Driver

Together and runs.





Shakedown, test and tune Monday at the client's farm.


----------



## davhul

I've seen there was some talk a little while back about the huztl bar and chains so I tried one out. I got a 3/8 .050 picco. Im giving it to someone that has a ms180 but my smallest saw to test it on is a ms250. I was fairly surprised It held a edge like it did. I ran about a 1/2 a tank out the day before and it still cut ok. I didn't check the raker hight it's whatever they have it at.


----------



## axeandwedge

67L36Driver said:


> 'Ears' on the Farmertec 066/660 wrist pin retainers are stupid long.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shortened them with my Dremel cut off disc.
> 
> I would have remove them entirely but might be handy in the event of trouble.


Be aware those tails snap off ,
Had a couple come in ,destroyed piston and cylinder

Sent from my HTC_0P6B using Tapatalk


----------



## 67L36Driver

axeandwedge said:


> Be aware those tails snap off ,
> Had a couple come in ,destroyed piston and cylinder
> 
> Sent from my HTC_0P6B using Tapatalk



The reverse bend looks good on these.

I've seen die nicks in some and no way in hell would I use them.


----------



## 67L36Driver

Kit contained the wrong outside bucking spike. Therefore we have no chain catcher.





What the heck the above fits is a mystery.[emoji848]


----------



## Bedford T

They are going sell a complete kit if it kills and confounds you. That has the hole for a chain catcher


----------



## Bedford T

How did your cylinder look. I am close to ordering another 660 kit. I redid my 029 cause I was jonsing


----------



## 67L36Driver

Bar studs are a little short.





1/4"-3/8" longer need to be.


----------



## davhul

Are those the huztl nuts? They are thicker than oem. 
Huztl


Oem


----------



## Ozhoo

67L36Driver said:


> Bar studs are a little short. 1/4"-3/8" longer need to be.



Turn em around...


----------



## Dieseldash

davhul said:


> I've seen there was some talk a little while back about the huztl bar and chains so I tried one out. I got a 3/8 .050 picco. Im giving it to someone that has a ms180 but my smallest saw to test it on is a ms250. I was fairly surprised It held a edge like it did. I ran about a 1/2 a tank out the day before and it still cut ok. I didn't check the raker hight it's whatever they have it at.




Agreed. Hutzl chain is surprisingly good to go.


----------



## splitpost

Great thread guys ,convinced my brother to try one out ,so I am now putting one together,so far the only thing that I am missing is the outer felling spike,actually they sent two inside ones,both different profile,also noticed they doubled up on some rubber parts ,and that the piston just rubs the crank at BDC ,nothing to alarming,
Did you guys run the fuel hose and impulse provided, how are they holding up. 

Sent from my SM-N910G using Tapatalk


----------



## Bedford T

Welcome, You will find most of us went very close to 99% Huztl. I used the manifold, impulse. 2 of my vents were bad. Had some fuel hose two were not.


----------



## 67L36Driver

After three messages to Huztl about the outside spike problem I've not recieved a reply that makes any sence.





Are they total dummies? 

" Dear sir,
Thanks for your business.
Please inform us. We will help."

What part of 'don't fit' don't they understand?

Maybe my picture isn't getting thru.

Without the proper spike I've no chain catcher in place.[emoji35]


----------



## Bedford T

Something has changed there recently.

My example, I have been collecting parts for a complete 20 year maintenance on my 029, I had never dissembled a clamshell. I bought several of those parts from them. The clutch I ordered they sent wrong 4 times, sent 3 - 440 clutches and then acted dumb to what they did wrong, the 4 item they sent was an unknown 3/8 sprocket. For my part that entailed explaining what was wrong, waiting on an answer, then waiting on delivery and then again 3 more times and I still not have that darn clutch. They understand us perfectly. This stupid chinese stick dont get it.

I will guarantee that will not happen on ebay many times because they will get bad marks that will affect their costs. Ebay has started making you wait to give a negative, but it an easier wait. How stupid do you have to be to have a customer communicate clearly with you 4 times and get it wrong every single time. I even suggested they check the parts bin to see it its filled with the wrong things. Later I found that the crap they sent was not even useful to me, for a different model. I worked with them so long that i lost my rights with paypal. that will not happen again

remember the brake level on the 440, they made that same stupid remark and it took an act of congress to get them to correct it. the thing would not fit, it just took looking at at. I had high hopes we had a reliable supply of parts. Fortunately it does not happen often or maybe it is going to occur more and more often.

sad


----------



## 67L36Driver

I can order the complete spike set from DefinativeDave for cheap enuff and get it in three days or less.

I'm for them sorting out their parts bins.


----------



## tbohn

67L36Driver said:


> After three messages to Huztl about the outside spike problem I've not recieved a reply that makes any sence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are they total dummies?
> 
> " Dear sir,
> Thanks for your business.
> Please inform us. We will help."
> 
> What part of 'don't fit' don't they understand?
> 
> Maybe my picture isn't getting thru.
> 
> Without the proper spike I've no chain catcher in place.[emoji35]


Looks like your spike is for the case not the clutch cover.





Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk


----------



## tbohn

I bought a complete Huztl case and head off ebay. It had some significant build issues out of the box. Nothing that couldn't be fixed but the cylinder bolt only half way tightened made me pull it apart.
1. Cylinder bolt not tightened at all
2. Metal flashing around the impulse nipple that was loose inside the case.
3. NO chamfer on the exhaust and inlet ports

Easy fixes but it shows you should not trust Huztl's assembly. This is one of the reasons I am holding off on the 070 until it comes as a kit.











Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk


----------



## tbohn

67L36Driver said:


> Bar studs are a little short.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1/4"-3/8" longer need to be.


My last couple Huztl 660s had the same issue. I replaced the ones that come with the kits with tapered ones from Huztl.





Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk


----------



## tbohn

Here is the tapered and standard next to each other. The tapered is longer but the threaded part is close to the same. I would not recommend turning them around and threading the short side into the case. I would be afraid it could strip the case threads.









Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk


----------



## 67L36Driver

Still not getting anywhere with the bucking spike problem. 

Maggie Tong is a clueless turdhead!
"Dear sir,
Thanks for your business.
This spike is fit for crankcase, not for chain sprocket cover.
Hope this can help you."


----------



## splitpost

67L36Driver said:


> Still not getting anywhere with the bucking spike problem.
> 
> Maggie Tong is a clueless turdhead!
> "Dear sir,
> Thanks for your business.
> This spike is fit for crankcase, not for chain sprocket cover.
> Hope this can help you."


And that's why I just ordered the outer from stihl 

Sent from my SM-N910G using Tapatalk


----------



## 67L36Driver

Yeah, that's the easy way.

We are just trying to give Maggie an education.[emoji6]


----------



## rd35

Hey folks! I have not had time to read this entire thread (huge now). Can you folks give me a rough idea of total cost out of pocket to purchase and build one of these 660's. (Initial purchase + shipping + extra parts to make it right + etc.) My initial thought is that I need about $300.00 to build a powerhead (no bar or chain). Am I in the ballpark on this estimate? Thanks!


----------



## Bedford T

67L36Driver said:


> Yeah, that's the easy way.
> 
> We are just trying to give Maggie an education.[emoji6]


Maggie is giving you the education. She is the one that worked so hard on my clutch that I still don't have. I learned something was wrong and my best chance was ebay.[emoji3]


----------



## 67L36Driver

rd35 said:


> Hey folks! I have not had time to read this entire thread (huge now). Can you folks give me a rough idea of total cost out of pocket to purchase and build one of these 660's. (Initial purchase + shipping + extra parts to make it right + etc.) My initial thought is that I need about $300.00 to build a powerhead (no bar or chain). Am I in the ballpark on this estimate? Thanks!



Three Benjamins is about right.

One I have here now is kit plus Stihl decomp valve. Pushing $295.

I had no issues with assembly at all and it started/ran well.

Some things may turn up on shakedown.


----------



## 67L36Driver

Actually easier to assemble than an MS361. No secret handshake to install handle/tank to crankcase.[emoji6]


----------



## Probablywillforget

rd35 said:


> Hey folks! I have not had time to read this entire thread (huge now). Can you folks give me a rough idea of total cost out of pocket to purchase and build one of these 660's. (Initial purchase + shipping + extra parts to make it right + etc.) My initial thought is that I need about $300.00 to build a powerhead (no bar or chain). Am I in the ballpark on this estimate? Thanks!



My build was in May 2017 (for when this thread is 500 pages deep, 6 years from now. Lol) I replaced the AM decompression with a factory stihl because of the Internet. I replaced the clutch drum with an Oregon because the Chinese one had too small inner diameter. My kit was also missing the Chinese MS660 name tag. Plus cleaner and goo, I'm closer to $325 for the powerhead.

I will also note, I am a new guy here and only have put this saw up against average firewood saws. But this is a monster compared to the 60cc stuff my friends spent $700 on.


----------



## 67L36Driver

I think Maggie finally got a clue.
"Dear sir,
Thanks for your reply.
You mean that you received 2pcs same bumper spike for crankcase, but did not receive the bumper spike for chain sprocket cover, right?
Or just receiving one bumper spike for cranckase.
Waiting for your reply"


----------



## Ozhoo

Farmertec has released their 3/4 wrap handlebars to round out our chinesium builds. 46 amerigrigo pesos on ebay or Huztl.


----------



## schmauster

Maggie I couldnt have tried anymore...


----------



## splitpost

Got some time yesterday to get into this build and now it's a runner real good one at that but here's what I had to tweak and replace in order for it to a good running saw, firstly when I looked over the cylinder it looked fine but after a close inspection it needed some port chamfering and some casting bits ground of ,just little bits that if you picked at them with a scribe they would fall off ,so I pretty much smoothed out the ports chamfered the edges and then dropped the lower tranfers ,I glassed the base and took .008 thou off getting squish to
.025 thou ,
running standard hutzl piston and rings ,everything clearance wise was spot on but the piston was hitting the crank at BDC so a bit of grinding on the underside was needed. 
Every other aspect of the saw went together with minimal or no tweaking ,had to toss the rear half of the muffler due to it being warped or bent and wouldn't seal ,had a oem rear handy ,I pulled the carb down and inspected it ,check needle height ,at this point I was impressed. 
Put some fuel in it and it popped on the 2nd pull ,so far so good ime thinking,move the switch to run another pull and it ran ,ok so it needed tuning,well it turns out that no amount of tuning was going to help this carb,,went through all my stuff and found a oem carb ,threw it straight on set the mix screws and bingo ,running as it should,
Threw a bar and chain on and tuned ,went and done some test cuts just to get it hot and load the engine,chain wouldn't stop running at idle,ititially it thought clutch springs but turns out the drum was out of round ,i threw a spare oem drum on problem solved,all up pretty happy with this build ,it put oem fuel and impulse lines in and a ngk plug ,no way was that farmertec plug going in,going out today to cut some large rounds of hardwood ,that should test it out ,running 25:1mix just to give the Chinese bearings some longevity. 

Sent from my SM-N910G using Tapatalk


----------



## davhul

This was the second one I built back when I was testing it. Seems to still run good. It has a mix of oem and huztl. Running 32:1 Kl200


----------



## axeandwedge

Ozhoo said:


> Farmertec has released their 3/4 wrap handlebars to round out our chinesium builds. 46 amerigrigo pesos on ebay or Huztl.
> 
> View attachment 583912


Hopefully they will not bend as easily,and they fit like they're supposed to,I bought one made for the MS660 it was so bad the chain break couldn't be reset.

Sent from my HTC_0P6B using Tapatalk


----------



## Bedford T

Farmertec normally would not have a handle that does not fit. They have had one for the 440, glad to see it for sale


----------



## 67L36Driver

schmauster said:


> Maggie I couldnt have tried anymore...



Maggie finally figured it out.
"Dear sir,
Thanks for your photos.
We would like to resend a right bumper spike to you, is that ok for you.
Waiting for your reply."

I told them to send it.

I have it fixed with a set from a generous forum member but just want to have them make it right.


----------



## axeandwedge

67L36Driver said:


> Maggie finally figured it out.
> "Dear sir,
> Thanks for your photos.
> We would like to resend a right bumper spike to you, is that ok for you.
> Waiting for your reply."
> 
> I told them to send it.
> 
> I have it fixed with a set from a generous forum member but just want to have them make it right.


Good on you for following it through

Sent from my HTC_0P6B using Tapatalk


----------



## ccarley

I happened to notice this morning the kits are on sale. I have been considering ordering this kit for a while now and at the price they have listed I almost can't say no. 

At this point, is there really any reason not to order one of these kits? Seems pretty straightforward. 

Clay


----------



## Bedford T

They is just the decision how many?


----------



## Mattyo

you do get a bit of a price break on shipping if you order 2 660s hehe


----------



## Ozhoo

ccarley said:


> I happened to notice this morning the kits are on sale. I have been considering ordering this kit for a while now and at the price they have listed I almost can't say no.
> 
> At this point, is there really any reason not to order one of these kits? Seems pretty straightforward.
> 
> Clay



I'd highly recommend looking at the HL Supply kit with a Cross cylinder. For a few more pesos you get a much better cylinder and shipping from FL vice overseas.


----------



## X 66 Stang347 X

The port # suppose to be better on the cross. But if I'm paying full price I may look at meteor or hyway also. Here's a few pics of my cross


----------



## Bedford T

Ozhoo said:


> I'd highly recommend looking at the HL Supply kit with a Cross cylinder. For a few more pesos you get a much better cylinder and shipping from FL vice overseas.


Stop and look before you leap. HL kits are farmertec and the cost is higher. They gave a special price to those that offered their love in a special buy and those guys waited 3 full months for those kits to be delivered. Delivery from China is 7_8 days. From Florida is about 3_4 depending on how far west you live.

And look at what they got. Trouble. Upgraded cross cylinders not up to snuff and they were extra cost. I bet that fella fixes that, he is no dummy. My bet is the cross was suppose to be upgrade performance enhanced option and who ever is making those cross cylinders does not understand that concept.

They should have assembled one of those kits and found the flaws and fixed them. Had they done that before sending out kits with major flaws that folks had been waiting on a very long time then buying from HL would have made sense. That's not what happened.


----------



## X 66 Stang347 X

The cross I have I'm going to port it pretty extreme. So if the numbers are better than my FT then that's better in that aspect. Some of the bevels need to be cleaned but I have to do it anyway. In the pic you can see the exhaust roof is pretty flat and that helps in performance. 
For the piston Mine looks good with no defects. But a few have had defects. Someone did say it was lighter than other brands. I'll take some pics of it later tonight. Not many topends I found I would just slap them on run with it without touch up.


----------



## Mattyo

my FT 660 cylinder is quite rough from the factory... reversed bevels etc lol.

haven't opened my cross kit yet, though I expect it to look like 66 stangs, which is far better than the FT stock. ....not sure why the hate on the cross kit Bed T..... can you elaborate?


----------



## Bedford T

No hate brother. Just looking at the outcome. I like the idea of a upgrade.


----------



## X 66 Stang347 X

The FT cylinder must still be hit and miss. Mine in my last kit looked pretty good compared to my others in the past. It needs a little touching up but I had no castings hanging out in the cylinder that would catch the piston like on my last ones.


----------



## Bedford T

X 66 Stang347 X said:


> The FT cylinder must still be hit and miss. Mine in my last kit looked pretty good compared to my others in the past. It needs a little touching up but I had no castings hanging out in the cylinder that would catch the piston like on my last ones.


Looking forward to your comments on the crank assembly. We have been playing with these kits for sometime and lately the info has stopped. It's now become hey look I finish my build and I love it with only the occasional and sporadic report of a vague issue. I took the bold step of asking them to look at the crank, don't want to send them on a goose chase. Wonder what percent of the lobes required grinding? Be interesting info.


----------



## Mattyo

Bedford T said:


> No hate brother. Just looking at the outcome. I like the idea of a upgrade.



Did I miss something somewhere did somebody have a poor outcome of the Cross cylinder that I missed because as far as I can see it is an upgrade


----------



## Bedford T

The rain in Spain stays mainly in the plain


----------



## ccarley

I suppose the biggest question here is:
How will I explain this to my wife?

Clay


----------



## TreeJoe

Ferris Bueller my hero, would be a good start.

or Hey batter, batter, swing batter!

I love a good answer.


----------



## Bedford T

All great answers lol


----------



## Bedford T

You know it more than an answer it's timing too. Like do the dishes and then tell her.


----------



## ccarley

Hmmm I like where you are going with this. Not sure I can win but I can try! 

Clay


----------



## ccarley

Done; kit ordered. 
There may be much suffering... oh well.  

Clay


----------



## X 66 Stang347 X

It's a Father's Day gift to yourself


----------



## 67L36Driver

X 66 Stang347 X said:


> It's a Father's Day gift to yourself



Wife and kids can't be trusted to get it right!

Some day, some thrift store will recieve about thirty 'T' shirts I never wore.[emoji849]


----------



## X 66 Stang347 X

I know someone's got some vids of their 660.


----------



## Bedford T




----------



## BrokenSVT

Mmm damn. I had pretty well convinced myself I couldn't pass up a 660 kit. All my other bases were covered with real-deal-Stihl saws, but I needed that BIG saw.

I just went to the website to see they're sold out. I guess that tells me I didn't really need one after all.


----------



## Bedford T

Send them a message and ask for a rain check and see what they say


----------



## Bedford T

Explain rain check


----------



## BrokenSVT

"Joo wan pay utz for rainnn? We assept joor offer."


----------



## Bedford T

?


----------



## BrokenSVT

Bedford T said:


> ?



It's ok. I'm slapping my own knee laughing. It was just a poor attempt at engrish humor.


----------



## davhul




----------



## brenndatomu

Bedford T said:


> Stop and look before you leap. HL kits are farmertec and the cost is higher. They gave a special price to those that offered their love in a special buy and those guys waited 3 full months for those kits to be delivered. Delivery from China is 7_8 days. From Florida is about 3_4 depending on how far west you live.
> 
> And look at what they got. Trouble. Upgraded cross cylinders not up to snuff and they were extra cost. I bet that fella fixes that, he is no dummy. My bet is the cross was suppose to be upgrade performance enhanced option and who ever is making those cross cylinders does not understand that concept.
> 
> They should have assembled one of those kits and found the flaws and fixed them. Had they done that before sending out kits with major flaws that folks had been waiting on a very long time then buying from HL would have made sense. That's not what happened.


So I just received mine from HL...so you are saying that not all these kits are FT?
I didn't upgrade to the Cross cyl...the FT cyl needs a bit of work, not terrible.
Haven't tore into the individual packages yet, but so far it looks like the flywheel keyway, 660 decal (and bushings), heat tape is missing.


----------



## Mattyo




----------



## Bedford T

brenndatomu said:


> So I just received mine from HL...so you are saying that not all these kits are FT?
> I didn't upgrade to the Cross cyl...the FT cyl needs a bit of work, not terrible.
> Haven't tore into the individual packages yet, but so far it looks like the flywheel keyway, 660 decal (and bushings), heat tape is missing.


If you were part of the special buy, that's what I wrote about. If the box is full of farmertec bags then it's farmertec if it were has Cross bags then they were hybrid. All in, my guess is, even though the screw bag says cross they are farmertec. My angle was if they took time to mess with the hybrid box contents and help by labeling the location too, how about checking to see if it's all there and all the jugs are all in ready to go shape, especially the cross jug that was a bonus, a cool idea. Buyers waited a long time. When I buy from HL they seem like a very together company to buy from. The boxes did seem to be in good shape. I am sure each and every kit will produce an awesome saw. You still get to compete.


----------



## OTAlucard

No need for a rain check. Its back in stock.


----------



## tbohn

Has anyone with some hours on their Huztl 660 experienced any failures? If so what?


----------



## Bedford T

OTAlucard said:


> No need for a rain check. Its back in stock.


Cool


----------



## tbohn

A friend of mine knows I have some large saws. He has a large maple that is dying and wants me to remove it for him. He says the base is over 30" in diameter and that it does not look rotten. I assume the trunk is worth money to someone for lumber??? How do I find someone that can use it?


----------



## Bedford T

Guys that sell mulch will sometimes buy wood to make mulch, as milling lumber you might try Craigslist.


----------



## Mattyo

tbohn said:


> A friend of mine knows I have some large saws. He has a large maple that is dying and wants me to remove it for him. He says the base is over 30" in diameter and that it does not look rotten. I assume the trunk is worth money to someone for lumber??? How do I find someone that can use it?



Such a big tree might yield beautiful lumber...and it might be full of nails. Who knows. So it might be worth something...and it might not. Gotta find someone who is willing to take a risk on it. Or find people that want slabs. ..and slab it with a chainsaw mill. Best to find a buyer first either way. Craigslist is a good suggestion...or some local tree guys might know someone.


----------



## X 66 Stang347 X

I've seen some mills leave the first 6-8' of the tree for the fence and nail problem.


----------



## Bedford T

That's a good strategy


----------



## Bedford T

i heard back from them on the rain check and of course you can see they are back up. she said they put them back on so you could benefit from the price but you may have a 4 days or so ship out delay maybe less. i thought that was nice who cant wait a few extra days to save a bundle so don't be concerned if it ships a few days late. the sale must have went well for them.


----------



## Ch100

Hi folks, just finished my ms660 thanks to all the great advice on this thread! I haven't speant long fiddling with the carb settings yet, but I have a saw that is running very poorly, it will barely run with wide open throttle but can be coaxed to higher revs at partial throttle. It is putting quite a reasonable puff of fuel mist back through the carb with the throttle wide open and filter off. Any thoughts or ideas would help me with my next steps?


----------



## Ch100

Finished with the hutzl 28" bar


----------



## tbohn

Try turning you h carb screw 1/4 turn clockwise. The h adjustment is the left screw. If it sounds better turn it more.


----------



## Ch100

Got it thanks.


----------



## BrokenSVT

I couldn't resist. I waited till the last 40 minutes of the sale, but I caved. 

Secretly, I don't feel bad at all. Don't tell though.


----------



## BrokenSVT

I have so many things to do/plan/buy before this shows up on my doorstep. I've got a list of OEM parts prepared and submitted to multiple places for quotes. I'm watching YouTube videos to beat the band.

That leaves...

What bar and chain will I want on this beast? My 046 Magnum will be built, ported, and back to me sporting a 24" bar and chain by the time this arrives. My 361 is stock and wears a 20" with 3/8" RS.


----------



## Bedford T

If you are thinking 36 that's awfully long to wear daily.


----------



## BrokenSVT

Oh no. No 36" bar for me. I can't think of a tree in 100 miles around me that requires that. 24"?  25"? 28"?

I have a spare 16". How much fun would that be lol...


----------



## Bedford T

You could switch bars you already have until you get a feel for what would work best for you.

Lots of fun things to think about


----------



## OTAlucard

BrokenSVT said:


> I have so many things to do/plan/buy before this shows up on my doorstep. I've got a list of OEM parts prepared and submitted to multiple places for quotes. I'm watching YouTube videos to beat the band.
> 
> That leaves...
> 
> What bar and chain will I want on this beast? My 046 Magnum will be built, ported, and back to me sporting a 24" bar and chain by the time this arrives. My 361 is stock and wears a 20" with 3/8" RS.



I Know I am asking too many questions But is that list on your computer

If it isn't don't worry about it But if it is maybe you could copy and paste it here for suggested parts to replace with oem parts


----------



## 67L36Driver

First casualty of my 066/660 build.

Anchor end of the recoil starter spring slipped thru.





Thru some slack in the rope which cought on the flywheel at speed.




My local dealer had the damaged
parts on hand, rebent the spring end.

Prolly end up using a new Stihl spring. 

Maybe shorten the rope to prevent over taxing the spring. We will see.


----------



## Mattyo

Was up until 2am. This kit from the group buy at HL was a very different kit....because all the bolts were labelled! Literally put it together in my sleep. 

Once I finished the port work this assembled like cake. The chain adjuster is smoother too. I used the hl supply seal kit and highly recommend it....

The ft 54mm jug should not be run without work... imho. The ports were too rough to be considered not ring hookers. Yikes


----------



## Mattyo




----------



## Mattyo

It's alive.

But won't restart....

Floods too easy....when the saw is off I can see fuel dripping from the main jet....


----------



## Mattyo

I think the needle lever is too high, gonna bend it down and see whats up


----------



## OTAlucard

ha I Ordered one of those wrap handles also just for the hell of it


----------



## brenndatomu

Mattyo said:


> This kit from the group buy at HL was a very different kit....because all the bolts were labelled!


I noticed that...haven't had time to assemble yet though...looks like all the parts are there, at least the ones commonly missing...except the MS660 decal. The white insert is there on the top cover, just no decal on it. Yours is the second pic I've seen from this HLS order, both had the decal.
Good to hear that the chain adjuster is actually right.
What do you mean by "HLS seal kit"?


----------



## Mattyo

http://www.hlsproparts.com/Stihl-066-MS660-gasket-set-p/h40660.htm?Click=48376


Been running the saw today, nearly a tank through it. The needle lever was indeed high. Tunes right nice now. no idle trouble, starts one pull, even after sitting for 15-20 min. 

My arm is tired though. ran the 350, 262 and the 660 clone today. none are stock.... no point in owning a stock saw lol


----------



## opiejudd

Mattyo said:


> http://www.hlsproparts.com/Stihl-066-MS660-gasket-set-p/h40660.htm?Click=48376
> 
> 
> Been running the saw today, nearly a tank through it. The needle lever was indeed high. Tunes right nice now. no idle trouble, starts one pull, even after sitting for 15-20 min.
> 
> My arm is tired though. ran the 350, 262 and the 660 clone today. none are stock.... no point in owning a stock saw lol


My Hlsupply gasket kit is in route as we speak along with my 660 kit. We will see which one gets here first. The saw was in NY Monday and I ordered the gasket kit yesterday with 3 to 4 day shipping. 

Been watching the bolt for bolt videos again and afleetcommand videos just to be ready. 

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## Mattyo

good idea... take notes from both. Walt has a lot of real world experience with these saws.... I just figure out how they go together. 

he brought up a good point in a recent vid... these kits are moving targets. issue with one saw doesn't apply to the next necessarily. so the issues I've had in the bolt for bolt vids don't necessarily apply. hopefully the reference of how pieces fit and the order of assembly is helpful


----------



## tbohn

tbohn said:


> Has anyone with some hours on their Huztl 660 experienced any failures? If so what?


Nobody has had issues with the Huztl 660 kits with time on them or does nobody have time on them?


----------



## opiejudd

Mattyo said:


> good idea... take notes from both. Walt has a lot of real world experience with these saws.... I just figure out how they go together.
> 
> he brought up a good point in a recent vid... these kits are moving targets. issue with one saw doesn't apply to the next necessarily. so the issues I've had in the bolt for bolt vids don't necessarily apply. hopefully the reference of how pieces fit and the order of assembly is helpful


I have there bb kit on my real 660. I'm the one Walt has referred to about milling with one. (Even posted my video of it milling with a dull chain. Lol) That's what this saw is being built for as well. I'm going no base gasket with mild port work. Mostly just cleaning it up. And as Walt would say a goofy muffler mod for milling in my sawmill.






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## Mattyo

nice carriage.... I need one of those for my mill... on the off chance I get a huge log....


----------



## Mattyo

tbohn said:


> Nobody has had issues with the Huztl 660 kits with time on them or does nobody have time on them?



I don't have time on mine at all. its going to a tree service, so who knows what they are gonna do to it lol


----------



## opiejudd

Mattyo said:


> nice carriage.... I need one of those for my mill... on the off chance I get a huge log....


Thank you. My track material is coming today. The new 660 will be strapped to it once there both done. And I will be doing some videos of it. Weather it goes or blows. We will find out. And I grabbed an extra P&C to be safe when I ordered the kit. 

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## OTAlucard

my 070 is stuck in new york and didn't clear customs yet :/


----------



## X 66 Stang347 X

Im going back in 2 of the 3 I built to replace the wrist pin bearing with Oem. The AM's have been known to fail


----------



## twinstaged

I have 5 gallons through mine without issue. The am carb has finally settled in, but I still not a fan of the way it comes to an idle. I went oem bearings, seals, gaskets and clutch drum. I put an hr meter on the saw, but it **** the bed on the first few tanks of gas lol


----------



## BrokenSVT

In preparation for my kit to arrive, I ordered some bits from a local Stihl dealer:

*Wrist pin bearing
*Fuel line
*Fuel filter
*Impulse line
*Decomp valve
*Decomp valve cover(?)
*Wrist pin snap rings

I'll likely source a clutch drum as well. I'll try to break-in the packaged chain tensioner bits. If that doesn't work out, what's a few more dollars lol...


----------



## brenndatomu

tbohn said:


> Nobody has had issues with the Huztl 660 kits with time on them or does nobody have time on them?


Somebody talked about this pages and pages back...I couldn't begin to tell you who it was...seems to me he had built several (maybe 5 or 6) of the 660 kits and some of them were given to friends who were full time loggers and/or tree service work and IIRC there had not been major failures in over a year...somebody correct me if I'm wrong or pipe up if you remember who that was...or know where its buried in this monster thread.


----------



## Mattyo

thats Walt- afleetcommand on youtube.


----------



## Mattyo

for the saw I just built, the only oem part was the wrist pin bearing. everything else was fine... the carb worked amazingly well once the needle lever was set to the right height.


----------



## tbohn

Mattyo said:


> thats Walt- afleetcommand on youtube.


I blame Walt for getting me hooked on Huztl stuff last Fall


OTAlucard said:


> my 070 is stuck in new york and didn't clear customs yet :/


Mine has been there since 1:18 AM Monday as well.


----------



## kjudd

tbohn said:


> I blame Walt for getting me hooked on Huztl stuff last Fall
> 
> Mine has been there since 1:18 AM Monday as well.



Mine been sitting since monday in New York as well.


----------



## OTAlucard

kjudd said:


> Mine been sitting since monday in New York as well.


wow I asked huztl And they said that the complete saws take longer to clear customs sometimes


----------



## Ozhoo

Mounted a Farmertec wrap to my 660 loaner. Fit is spot on with OEM. Supplied screws are wonky but otherwise sweet for the price.


----------



## tbohn

OTAlucard said:


> wow I asked huztl And they said that the complete saws take longer to clear customs sometimes


Mine cleared customs today...


----------



## opiejudd

tbohn said:


> Mine cleared customs today...


Mine as well. Lol 

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## opiejudd

Ozhoo said:


> Mounted a Farmertec wrap to my 660 loaner. Fit is spot on with OEM. Supplied screws are wonky but otherwise sweet for the price.
> 
> View attachment 586397
> 
> 
> View attachment 586398


I have one on my ms461 and like it a lot so far. I here you on the screws being interesting but worked. 

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## awful knawful

Ok you guys have me interested in one of these clones. I'm a Husky guy and own a 268. If I order one of these anything else I should order? Bar/ chain? Length of bar and size of chain? I have no idea what the chain #s mean. Probably wouldn't be cutting trees much bigger than 24 - 28" maple.
Thanks


----------



## OTAlucard

The customs clearance is completed. yay !


----------



## 67L36Driver

Cut tested and adjusted the carb. Ready to deliver to client.


----------



## awful knawful

Any of you guys put the BB piston/ cylinder kit on? It's like $20. 98.5cc per my calculations.


----------



## OTAlucard

awful knawful said:


> Any of you guys put the BB piston/ cylinder kit on? It's like $20. 98.5cc per my calculations.


Some say that the big bore cylinders don't run as good without a whole bunch of work decking the cylinder and re timing the ports etc


----------



## tbohn

OTAlucard said:


> Some say that the big bore cylinders don't run as good without a whole bunch of work decking the cylinder and re timing the ports etc


I put a Farmertec 56mm on my first one and deleted the cylinder base gasket. I ended up with 23 mils squish and did have about 12 mil of freeport. It has noticeably more power than a standard 54mm from Farmertec. 
I purchased another 56mm from a different supplier and it needed the base gasket and it had about 95 mils of freeport. I have not tried thus one in word yet.

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## 67L36Driver

Correct outside bucking spike arrived today. It took the better part of four weeks to get the problem corrected.

Also, can someone post a link to the shipping agent they use.

The tracking numbers on my last two orders do not 'compute'.


----------



## BrokenSVT

Just Google "SF Express tracking" and follow the first link.


----------



## BrokenSVT

And on that note, my kit cleared customs today. Should be here in a few days' time.


----------



## opiejudd

I got my kit today. I came with the cold and hot temp insert and the 3 brass bushings for the top cover. So that's a plus. With what I have assembled so far. The fit and finish has been pretty good. There's a couple tooling marks I would let go if they were parts I milled. (But I pickup on that stuff being a machinist myself) The m4 AV mount is not tapped all the way. So that will have to be tapped. But the bad part. The 2 cylinders I received where not so good. One has crack in the transfer wall and the other is pitted. I'm probably going to practice porting on pitted one. I think the pits are below where the rings go. But I have contacted huztl and we will see what happen. 

















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## X 66 Stang347 X

Almost every cylinder I see has that casting flaw. Mine pretty much disappeared after porting.


----------



## Mattyo

yeah, I dunno if thats a through and through crack... most likely a casting flaw. I would run either....but not without working over the ports to fix the inverted bevels hehe


----------



## kjudd

Mattyo said:


> yeah, I dunno if thats a through and through crack... most likely a casting flaw. I would run either....but not without working over the ports to fix the inverted bevels hehe



I will try to get a closer look at the crack/void tonight. I plan on work over the cylinder the best i can. I was planning on that to begin with. 

PS(opiejudd is me as well I managed to have 2 accounts somehow. Fixed now.)


----------



## tbohn

kjudd said:


> I will try to get a closer look at the crack/void tonight. I plan on work over the cylinder the best i can. I was planning on that to begin with.
> 
> PS(opiejudd is me as well I managed to have 2 accounts somehow. Fixed now.)


I think all my 660 jugs have the same casting flaw. I thought it was a crack at first too.


----------



## kjudd

tbohn said:


> I think all my 660 jugs have the same casting flaw. I thought it was a crack at first too.


Thanks. That what I thought at first. Hopefully I'm wrong. 

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## twinstaged

Yeah they all seem to have suck back right there as the casting cooled. It's kind of a crap shoot.. some look worse then others.


----------



## daanbrons

Hi guys 

I will introduce myself frist. I am daan form the Netherlands. I am reading your posts for a long time now. And a few weeks ago I ordered one ms660 and ms360. They came in this morning. Everything looked one the first time good, however I have some questions about the crankshaft of the ms660.

The piston rod feels like there is some play on it. If you push on the upper part you can turn it a small bit to the left and right. It is more then on the crankshaft of the ms360.

Is this normal? How are your piston rods feeling? 

Many thanks in advance 

Daan





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## Mattyo

Left and right not a problem...up and down play is bad....and unlikely


----------



## BrokenSVT

So SF Express tracking worked until it hit the closest big shipping hub(Cincinnati). Suddenly, it doesn't work anymore. Has that been anyone's experience? Hopefully it means it's close?


----------



## kjudd

BrokenSVT said:


> So SF Express tracking worked until it hit the closest big shipping hub(Cincinnati). Suddenly, it doesn't work anymore. Has that been anyone's experience? Hopefully it means it's close?


Mine did the same thing. Still have no idea who delivered it. lol


----------



## dswensen

BrokenSVT said:


> So SF Express tracking worked until it hit the closest big shipping hub(Cincinnati). Suddenly, it doesn't work anymore. Has that been anyone's experience? Hopefully it means it's close?



My experience as well. Once it dropped off the SF Express tracking radar (it was last reported in my hometown after going through Portland OR), it was delivered the next day. I also don't know by whom, but I suspect UPS.


----------



## BrokenSVT

Marvelous day


----------



## redjeepxj

Has anyone had issues with the gas tank leaking at the seam highlighted in the picture? This is a new build that hasn't been run yet.


----------



## brenndatomu

redjeepxj said:


> Has anyone had issues with the gas tank leaking at the seam highlighted in the picture? This is a new build that hasn't been run yet.
> View attachment 588205


I think I remember of one much earlier in this thread...


----------



## Bedford T

Is it leaking? Take your pressure tester hook it up to the fuel line close the fuel cap. Pump 5_10#'s pressure and see if it holds. Then ask that question if it leaks. It would be rare.


----------



## kjudd

I got the my HZ660 running. I tuned it by ear at first had it about 2600 on idle and 11500 at WOT with a strong 4 stroking. Checked with a tach. Then I tach tuned to the 2700 idle and 13300 WOT. Doesn't seem to be 4 stroking very much there. I have a video of it. I will up load soon. 

It's a no base gasket build with very mild port work. Mostly just a clean up and smoothing. Stock Huztl dual port muffler and that's it for now.






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----------



## redjeepxj

Bedford T said:


> Is it leaking? Take your pressure tester hook it up to the fuel line close the fuel cap. Pump 5_10#'s pressure and see if it holds. Then ask that question if it leaks. It would be rare.



Yes it leaks. Filled up with fuel and it runs right out of that seam. Huztl asked if I could fix it with sealant but I am thinking a new tank should be sent.


----------



## Blairito

redjeepxj said:


> Yes it leaks. Filled up with fuel and it runs right out of that seam. Huztl asked if I could fix it with sealant but I am thinking a new tank should be sent.


I had the issue as well
I was asked if Sealant or glue could fix it
I eventually got a discount on a new tank
The new one doesn't seem to leak 
We'll see


----------



## Bedford T

Insist on a new tank. We are talking fuel here. I am surprised at some of their suggestions sometimes. Sealant is included in the price when you buy it. I bet they got stuck with a bunch of bad ones. The handle/fuel tank was pulled off the website this must be why. I suggest you insist and warn us if you run into trouble. Not acceptable.

At Blair what kinda of discount? Was it a new tank?


----------



## OTAlucard

Bedford T said:


> Insist on a new tank. We are talking fuel here. I am surprised at some of their suggestions sometimes. Sealant is included in the price when you buy it. I bet they got stuck with a bunch of bad ones. The handle/fuel tank was pulled off the website this must be why. I suggest you insist and warn us if you run into trouble. Not acceptable.
> 
> At Blair what kinda of discount? Was it a new tank?



I need to really put mine together this month to test the tank.


----------



## Bedford T

Just pressure test it with the cap on


----------



## kjudd

My dad cut a tank of firewood with the 660. Ran great. But I noticed the bar was dry when he was done. Did a little investigating. Broke the end of the oil drive arm off. No major damage just a bunch of beauty marks. And the decomp cap popped off. I will be heading to the dealer to get some parts. Other then that supper happy with it.





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----------



## Bedford T

That is a new one on the arm. Glad no real damage was done. It's good you caught the chain being dry. That sticks out to me too!


----------



## OTAlucard

Got the 070 out made a chain for it And Made the chain one link too short for an 18 inch bar. :/
so I Ended up pulling a stud out to get the chain on Video will be up tonight

I Am very impressed with this honestly for what it is The idle was way too high and it was tuned way too lean on the high side when i got it But just wow


----------



## kjudd

Bedford T said:


> That is a new one on the arm. Glad no real damage was done. It's good you caught the chain being dry. That sticks out to me too!


Yeah. Probably an over site on my part. Either way. I'm still impresses with the saw. So was my dad. 

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## Bedford T

guys they have the bars and chains on sale this week. it says 20% on the front page and 15% on the item page. i would shoot them a message and ask for the 20%. wow time to load up.


----------



## Bedford T

i was ordering a few things and noticed this vent, is this what they are supplying with the kits now, this vent may work better than the duck bill they were using. i guess i will see i ordered a handle/fuel tank. i had a complete engine doing nothing so i bought some parts to finish it up. i got one of these vents and if it comes with this i will just have extra, they were different. i have 3 of the original ones. i am interested if it will fit the 440 as well.


----------



## Adam08ski

kjudd said:


> I got the my HZ660 running. I tuned it by ear at first had it about 2600 on idle and 11500 at WOT with a strong 4 stroking. Checked with a tach. Then I tach tuned to the 2700 idle and 13300 WOT. Doesn't seem to be 4 stroking very much there. I have a video of it. I will up load soon.
> 
> It's a no base gasket build with very mild port work. Mostly just a clean up and smoothing. Stock Huztl dual port muffler and that's it for now.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk



At WOT and not in the wood you WANT it 4-stroking. You want it to clean up as you start cutting. If it is not 4-stroking out of the cut it will be lean in the cut. Hope this makes sense.

Or have I mis read your post?


----------



## kjudd

Adam08ski said:


> At WOT and not in the wood you WANT it 4-stroking. You want it to clean up as you start cutting. If it is not 4-stroking out of the cut it will be lean in the cut. Hope this makes sense.
> 
> Or have I mis read your post?


It seems to be better now. It was still 4 stroking at 13300. Just not what I thought it should be. The plug looks beautiful after a full tank. Thank for the reply. 

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----------



## Adam08ski

kjudd said:


> It seems to be better now. It was still 4 stroking at 13300. Just not what I thought it should be. The plug looks beautiful after a full tank. Thank for the reply.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


Excellent news


----------



## kjudd

Adam08ski said:


> Excellent news


I'm also a little paranoid about the hi speed tuning as I have burnt up one top end on accident. Which is why I have a bb 660 too. Lol 

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----------



## X 66 Stang347 X

I run my AM660 around 12,8-13


----------



## kjudd

X 66 Stang347 X said:


> I run my AM660 around 12,8-13


When I start milling with it. I will tune it back down to 13000. 

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----------



## X 66 Stang347 X

I know there a few guys watching that mill maybe they'll chime in. I think around 12,3-12,5 is where most run. And 32:1 mix for milling


----------



## kjudd

I'm running the 50:1 stihl mix in mine. The way I look at it if it's good enough for 1000s of $1200 saws it's good enough for my $300 saw. 

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----------



## X 66 Stang347 X

Really 50:1 is marginal for everyday use. I would run atleast 40:1. The reason we went to 50:1 is due to the EPA. 
On the saws I run at 32:1 my exhaust stays clean with a good tune.


----------



## kjudd

Yep. All my saws. As well as all my dad's saws. I know this is stirring the pot with what mix to run. Lol but I'm just adding to the mix of what people are doing with these clones. Who knows it might melt down tomorrow or run for 20 years like this. Only 1 way to find out. 

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----------



## X 66 Stang347 X

True. To each his own with oils and mix. I see about 10 saws a day with varying brands of oil and ratios. Some I'd like to know what they run so I could stay away it's so bad. And the tune has a lot to do with it along with the oil.


----------



## Bedford T

You know av100 gas has a little lead in it, and then use 32-40:1 and you should be set.


----------



## kjudd

Each mill saw will have a tach mounted to it so I can easy watch my rpms while milling and adjust it accordingly. 

I run 93 octane in everything. 

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----------



## JTM

X 66 Stang347 X said:


> I know there a few guys watching that mill maybe they'll chime in. I think around 12,3-12,5 is where most run. And 32:1 mix for milling


For milling 12,8-13 seems to perform well for me. I tried around 12 and just below and it was way too rich.


----------



## brenndatomu

When adjusting the high speed screw/max RPM, 13k would be an "unloaded" RPM I'm sure, correct?
Once tuned, what would be a common RPM to expect seeing while milling?


----------



## Bedford T

There is a milling section where the experts Hangouts. I bet it would depend on the wood, your chain and the saw.


----------



## kjudd

brenndatomu said:


> When adjusting the high speed screw/max RPM, 13k would be an "unloaded" RPM I'm sure, correct?
> Once tuned, what would be a common RPM to expect seeing while milling?


Yes unloaded. When milling I'm usually between the 7 to 9000 range. Doesn't take much pressure to change it. 

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----------



## twinstaged

Well my saw developed a major air leak the other day. Got it shut off and no damage done. I got a cheese grade cylinder bolt apparently. Have almost 7 gallons through the saw now.


----------



## Bedford T

twinstaged said:


> View attachment 589281
> View attachment 589280
> Well my saw developed a major air leak the other day. Got it shut off and no damage done. I got a cheese grade cylinder bolt apparently. Have almost 7 gallons through the saw now.


Is that light rust around the hole? Maybe you have enough to grab and twist it out. Great no damage other than the obvious


----------



## twinstaged

Bedford T said:


> Is that light rust around the hole? Maybe you have enough to grab and twist it out. Great no damage other than the obvious



nah just sawdust. The rest of the bolt already came out so no worries there. Just need to clean it all up and I'll be putting in grade 12 Allen heads


----------



## OTAlucard

twinstaged said:


> nah just sawdust. The rest of the bolt already came out so no worries there. Just need to clean it all up and I'll be putting in grade 12 Allen heads


Where are you getting them. The Allen head bolts. I'll buy a few


----------



## Bedford T

https://www.fastenal.com/products/d...~|sattr05:^20mm$|~ ~|sattr06:^"Class 12.9"$|~


----------



## twinstaged

Yeah lots of places online. If you have a big enough order McMaster Carr. The junk drawers at hardware stores should have them. I do work for a bolt supplier and can buy for cheap locally.


----------



## OTAlucard

Found a 36 inch bar on ebay for the 660 for 69 dollars shipped.


----------



## axeandwedge

BrokenSVT said:


> In preparation for my kit to arrive, I ordered some bits from a local Stihl dealer:
> 
> *Wrist pin bearing
> *Fuel line
> *Fuel filter
> *Impulse line
> *Decomp valve
> *Decomp valve cover(?)
> *Wrist pin snap rings
> 
> I'll likely source a clutch drum as well. I'll try to break-in the packaged chain tensioner bits. If that doesn't work out, what's a few more dollars lol...


Glad to see you've done your homework buddy.
Hope you get a good run out of it when you put it together ,I'm not a big fan of their carbs though.

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----------



## Oldman47

Today the kit is on sale here. 
https://www.arbortec.net/dealoftheday.asp


----------



## Definitive Dave

John finished his 066 Chinese buildoff saw already - it runs pretty darn well!!

he went with OEM Stihl piston pin bearing, circlips and wrist pin and ported the Farmertec 56mm Big Bore cylinder


----------



## kjudd

Definitive Dave said:


> John finished his 066 Chinese buildoff saw already - it runs pretty darn well!!
> 
> he went with OEM Stihl piston pin bearing, circlips and wrist pin and ported the Farmertec 56mm Big Bore cylinder



Nice. What kind of rpms is that turning?


----------



## Definitive Dave

he is a youtube/facebook guy, he isnt on any of the forums, but if you ask on his youtube channel he can probably stick a tach on it
he is a chainsaw madman, just loves to tinker and build fast saws, absolutely great guy


----------



## kjudd

Definitive Dave said:


> he is a youtube/facebook guy, he isnt on any of the forums, but if you ask on his youtube channel he can probably stick a tach on it
> he is a chainsaw madman, just loves to tinker and build fast saws, absolutely great guy


Cool. Thanks 

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----------



## blsnelling

Mr NOS himself!


----------



## kjudd

I'm now thru 3 tanks of gas on the HZ660. Still running great. Still getting stronger everytime i run it. I have my oiler problem figured out. I installed the wrong rubber piece on the suction side of the pump.






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----------



## Bedford T

for repeat builders
I was surfing, up late and I ran up on this circlip installer. it is more affordable. i emailed and asked if it would work on a stihl chainsaw and the guy hit me right back @ 145am and said it will. so this would allow easy installation of the oem clips.

https://www.accu-products.com/accu-...circlip-installation-tool-2-stroke-model.html


----------



## Bedford T

There a report of a leaking tank. I needed one anyway for a build I am doing to make use of a spare engine so I ordered the assembly and it arrived today. I did a pressure/vac test and made note of the improvements I see they have made since my first build. I am very impressed with how well the throttle system functions compared to the early models. The notes and test are in the video I attached.


----------



## Bedford T

I got a little further along. will stop now and gather some more parts. the air filter looks improved too on the way it seals, it feels that way at least. I had to trim a little plastic on the carb shield to get the air filter mount in it, the mount had to be cleaned up slightly in the holes, a tiny bit of slag interfering with the studs. a quick file knocked it back. very nice. I have all ready put a high output oil pump on it.


----------



## TRoller

Here's mine. Went thru two farmertec jugs before I went with the cross MMWS jug. First jug had plating missing out of the box so it was a no go. The second one I ran on the saw for 1 tank and pulled it. Had plating damage so I tossed it. We will see how this cylinder does.


----------



## Adam08ski

TRoller said:


> View attachment 591745
> Here's mine. Went thru two farmertec jugs before I went with the cross MMWS jug. First jug had plating missing out of the box so it was a no go. The second one I ran on the saw for 1 tank and pulled it. Had plating damage so I tossed it. We will see how this cylinder does.


This is where I don't get farmertec. I had an 038 Mag farmertec jug and piston with caber rings. It cut about 2 cords of wood before I sold it on (AM parts listed in advert) before I had the farmertec I had a hyway number. The farmertec ran better hands down.. but they are soo hit and miss by the sounds of it..

Sent from my HTC One M8s using Tapatalk


----------



## OTAlucard

TRoller said:


> View attachment 591745
> Here's mine. Went thru two farmertec jugs before I went with the cross MMWS jug. First jug had plating missing out of the box so it was a no go. The second one I ran on the saw for 1 tank and pulled it. Had plating damage so I tossed it. We will see how this cylinder does.


I Saw your thread on O P E 
I Went to go look at my cylinder And the plating seems like its all there but there's some slag in the transfer and exhaust port that needs to be filed down

I Looked at my 365XP Cylinder and the cylinder is probably 5x the quality of the 660 cylinder imo from farmertec just the way the casting is and such 

I Hope that my cylinders plating holds up for many hours of use like most peoples saws in here But we will see :/


----------



## Bedford T

TRoller said:


> View attachment 591745
> Here's mine. Went thru two farmertec jugs before I went with the cross MMWS jug. First jug had plating missing out of the box so it was a no go. The second one I ran on the saw for 1 tank and pulled it. Had plating damage so I tossed it. We will see how this cylinder does.


The 038 jugs were about perfect


----------



## Adam08ski

Bedford T said:


> The 038 jugs were about perfect


Mine ran well. 

Sent from my HTC One M8s using Tapatalk


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## TRoller

Bedford T said:


> The 038 jugs were about perfect


The one I ran on mine looked perfect, and ran ok for a 660 till I pulled the jug I would have never known anything was wrong.


----------



## Definitive Dave

Bedford T said:


> for repeat builders
> I was surfing, up late and I ran up on this circlip installer. it is more affordable. i emailed and asked if it would work on a stihl chainsaw and the guy hit me right back @ 145am and said it will. so this would allow easy installation of the oem clips.
> 
> https://www.accu-products.com/accu-...circlip-installation-tool-2-stroke-model.html


I bought that style first, nowhere near as easy as the Stihl tool


----------



## brenndatomu

Bedford T said:


> I have all ready put a high output oil pump on it.


Mine slobbers oil out the bar lube hole when its not running...common? Cure?


----------



## Bedford T

brenndatomu said:


> Mine slobbers oil out the bar lube hole when its not running...common? Cure?


Have you dialed it back. Mine, most stihl's just barely oil the chain for me.


----------



## Bedford T

Definitive Dave said:


> I bought that style first, nowhere near as easy as the Stihl tool


I checked with the guy but I did not ask how easy it was. I checked I can get the Stihl for 67$ + ship might be 5$. Surely his is not as hard as using a screwdriver to get it in. I had not seen anything other that the Stihl tool. A buddy can just spin them in buying a tool would almost be a waste of money for him. Not me. It's ears or the tool.

But that is good to know.


----------



## brenndatomu

Bedford T said:


> Have you dialed it back. Mine, most stihl's just barely oil the chain for me.


No not yet...I was waiting on the B/C to get here to adjust the oiler. I had read somewhere that there could be some sort of check valve sticking that might cause it to leak when not running? And it is coming from the bar oil hole...I know some have forgotten to install the oring between the pump and the cases...mine is dry back in there


----------



## OTAlucard

the guy dropped the price of that 33 inch bar for the 070 to 79 dollars free ship or best offer I Was thinking about buying it but I Already have the 42 inch ordered


----------



## Bedford T

brenndatomu said:


> No not yet...I was waiting on the B/C to get here to adjust the oiler. I had read somewhere that there could be some sort of check valve sticking that might cause it to leak when not running? And it is coming from the bar oil hole...I know some have forgotten to install the oring between the pump and the cases...mine is dry back in there


That is getting all lubed up thinking about that delicious bar and chain on order. Lol.

My saws are much less messy when the bar and chain are in place. Roll it on its side while you wait. Likely nothing wrong. If that little valve is stuck and you have some air take the cap off and give it a puff on top of it. If some small piece of dirt is in it it might come loose.

I have hit reply and can't see what size bar you might have coming. In the my 660 every inch over 24 will get dryer and dryer. That oiler will not do a 32 or more hardly at all. I am speaking of mine and what I have read.


----------



## brenndatomu

Bedford T said:


> I have hit reply and can't see what size bar you might have coming. In the my 660 every inch over 24 will get dryer and dryer. That oiler will not do a 32 or more hardly at all. I am speaking of mine and what I have read.


I ordered a 32" Laser pro bar with .050 full chisel chain. Heck the way it is now I think it will lube that bar even not running!


----------



## TRoller

brenndatomu said:


> I ordered a 32" Laser pro bar with .050 full chisel chain. Heck the way it is now I think it will lube that bar even not running!





brenndatomu said:


> I ordered a 32" Laser pro bar with .050 full chisel chain. Heck the way it is now I think it will lube that bar even not running!


 Mine oils a 32" just fine


----------



## chopperopper

Anyone have a rod bearing fail? Looks like there's a little discoloration from heat. Plenty of metal shaved/chipped off and made it up to the top. I had 5-6 tanks through the saw.


----------



## Bedford T

Sux, What was you oil to gas ratio?


----------



## Ozhoo

chopperopper said:


> Anyone have a rod bearing fail? Looks like there's a little discoloration from heat. Plenty of metal shaved/chipped off and made it up to the top. I had 5-6 tanks through the saw.
> View attachment 592211
> View attachment 592212



Did you check squish?


----------



## chopperopper

Ratio used is 40:1. I didn't use the cylinder gasket; had a squish of 0.022" and i made several measurements around the piston. Could that ring have been formed after the bearing failed?


----------



## Bedford T

The whole thing looks like it was a pile driver and the bearings failed. A gut feeling is likely all you can hope from someone who has more experience than myself. But just look at what you are showing us.


----------



## brenndatomu

Did it do anything strange before the big kaboom? Like run or sound funny?
Might be just the pics...but things look awfully dry...no way it got straight gassed, is there? Piston doesn't really look like a typical "no oil" piston though...hmm


----------



## splitpost

The one I built for my brother is running 25:1 and has 18 tanks through it now and still no problem ,yet time will tell 

Sent from my SM-N910G using Tapatalk


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## Bedford T

I pointed out a circlip installer recently and definitive dave countered with a better one, the stihl one. the oddest thing happened I got one and I can say its way nice. i tired a aftermarket "c" type in the installer and it was not smooth. i happen to have two pair of the oem clips and it was smooth as butter, so the clip
sizes are slightly off by about a nats behind. I had a old piston i could try it on. I may not have this when they figure out the mistake and likely i should not have used it. but i did and I am showing it to you too. sweet! If you want to see him operate the tool see video. (edit)The tool comes in three sizes. 12, 8/9,10mm. You might notice the clamp. Its very handy and also on his website. the blades are flat to give the hose a good pinch without damage and its easy to handle and small to store.


----------



## OTAlucard

Hey I Was able to just press the ms660 crank into the clutch side of the case by hand Couldn't I Just use a bunch of washers and the flywheel nut to pull it through the flywheel side ?


----------



## Bedford T

Simple way is to heat it with a gun and push, use the case screws to finish it. You might want to remove the locator pins when you finish.

But yes there are different ways to do it


----------



## OTAlucard

Bedford T said:


> Simple way is to heat it with a gun and push, use the case screws to finish it. You might want to remove the locator pins when you finish.
> 
> But yes there are different ways to do it



Good thinking I Saw on Youtube ! 

where one of those pins fell out into the clutch and the clutch EXPLODED !


----------



## Charlie Pendleton

Bedford T said:


> Simple way is to heat it with a gun and push, use the case screws to finish it. You might want to remove the locator pins when you finish.
> 
> But yes there are different ways to do it


I've found you still need to use a crank tool or stack washers and tug on the flywheel to finish seat the crank into the bearing. Whenever i use the case bolts to pull the halves together the crank is tight while turning like there is a side load on the bearings. It isn't much but one or two turns on the flywheel nut sucks the crank deeper into the bearing and makes it turn smoothly.


----------



## OTAlucard

case halves are together now. And crank seems good

Is this right. No base gasket 15 thousandths. 


I'll probably have to run a base gasket with this then. Or remove some of the squish band. I've had about enough for now to be honest. The cases went right together.

Too bad the cases are beat up and the crank has corrosion. But hey. We'll see how it goes


Edit. I checked it with my mitutoyo micrometer that I know how to read. And its 15 thousandths


----------



## blsnelling

Bedford T said:


> The whole thing looks like it was a pile driver and the bearings failed. A gut feeling is likely all you can hope from someone who has more experience than myself. But just look at what you are showing us.


He already said it had .022" squish clearance. The bearing failed and allowed the piston to beat on the cylinder head.


----------



## OTAlucard

I shaved off some metal from the base of the cylinder. I am going to take a little more off and put it together with a base gasket and dirko. I am getting 27 thousandths at the exhaust port side and 29 everywhere else. I'll just ride out with it. And see how it holds up.

Engine Is together 

tomorrow I'll put on the plastic pieces / rubber and handles carb etc I Should Have it running tomorrow


----------



## OTAlucard

All put together. The ultimate test is to see how long it lasts.


----------



## Bedford T

If anyone else is the proud owner of a large mount chainsaw bar you would like to strap on your MS660 i posted some info on adapters in the 070 thread
post 433#
http://www.arboristsite.com/communi...w-and-the-forthcoming-kit-then-to-090.308540/


----------



## Ozhoo

660 Special at Arbortec.net puts them at $216 to your stateside door.

https://www.arbortec.net/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=CS66020A


----------



## Bedford T

Ozhoo said:


> 660 Special at Arbortec.net puts them at $216 to your stateside door.
> 
> https://www.arbortec.net/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=CS66020A


That's a good price with the ride


----------



## Jake94134

Ozhoo said:


> 660 Special at Arbortec.net puts them at $216 to your stateside door.
> 
> https://www.arbortec.net/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=CS66020A



I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on a 660 kit. Any reason not to order through Arbortec? Looks to be the same kit sold through Huztl.


----------



## cleb

My build is complete... I swapped out a couple of parts :

Stihl Chain brake dog bone linkage (not sure what to call it) - with the stihl one the chain brake works fine...
Carber rings
Stihl wrist pin snap ring 
Stihl MS660 decompression Valve
Hyway MS660 gasket set 

I built it without a base gasket as my squish without one was about .02...

this was my first chainsaw build... the only thing that doesn't work is that I can move the lever to the off position... which seems somewhat common... anyone get there's working?


----------



## kjudd

All strapped into the Alaskan sawmill. Hoping to mill some hardwood in the next couple days. I'm trying a brand new granberg ripping chain on a 32in bar. We will see how it does compared to my MS660 with the huztl big bore.






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## Bedford T

cleb said:


> this was my first chainsaw build... the only thing that doesn't work is that I can move the lever to the off position... which seems somewhat common... anyone get there's working?




Welcome to the club. I just got a handle to complete another saw. My throttle is perfect, not so before. Is that what you mean as lever to the off position?


----------



## Bedford T

kjudd said:


> All strapped into the Alaskan sawmill. Hoping to mill some hardwood in the next couple days. I'm trying a brand new granberg ripping chain on a 32in bar. We will see how it does compared to my MS660 with the huztl big bore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


You got it broke in? You gonna have fun


----------



## cleb

Bedford T said:


> Welcome to the club. I just got a handle to complete another saw. My throttle is perfect, not so before. Is that what you mean as lever to the off position?



I can move the lever to full choke and run but not to the off position... throttle linkage worked fine...


----------



## kjudd

Bedford T said:


> You got it broke in? You gonna have fun


Three tanks thru it so far. Some say to break them in the way you are going to run them. I'm going to fatten the tune up to 13000 and let it eat. 

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## dswensen

cleb said:


> I can move the lever to full choke and run but not to the off position... throttle linkage worked fine...



Look carefully at how the metal leaf-spring contact travels when the lever is operated. Mine came with the metal leaf-spring contact travelling under the rotating lever instead of over it. Did the same thing yours is doing before I fixed it.


----------



## Bedford T

kjudd said:


> Three tanks thru it so far. Some say to break them in the way you are going to run them. I'm going to fatten the tune up to 13000 and let it eat.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


Have fun. It's been so hot I have not done any milling. Looking forward to it easing some.


----------



## kjudd

Bedford T said:


> Have fun. It's been so hot I have not done any milling. Looking forward to it easing some.


It's been a wet summer here. It has rained just about everyday this summer. Hope to get my sawmill done once we're are done with firewood. Then I will be working the saws. I have a timberframe shed I want to build next summer of everything works out. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


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## brenndatomu

cleb said:


> I can move the lever to full choke and run but not to the off position... throttle linkage worked fine...


Mine was that way...I put a very light coat of grease on things where they contact/slide...much better now


----------



## OTAlucard

On mine. I put my bar studs backwards sadly.  

For the record. 
The saw I built had dinged up gasket surface on the cases. The crank had a bad cast job with bubbles on one lobe . And the cylinder fins were bent. But it runs. Lol 



Honestly I don't think that these aftermarket recoils can withstand the compression. That's why I ordered a replacement decompression valve. The little cap on mine fell off after the saw got warm. I am trying the metal cap forester one for 12 dollars shipped. 

You might be able to center tap a screw hole into the middle of the decompression button and screw the cap onto the shaft with a tiny screw.


----------



## cleb

brenndatomu said:


> Mine was that way...I put a very light coat of grease on things where they contact/slide...much better now



thanks... I give it a try... I was thinking of rounding the edge the contact spring has to go over in order to get to the off position... taking a little bit off there the make it easier for the spring to move up the rise there...


----------



## Bedford T

cleb said:


> thanks... I give it a try... I was thinking of rounding the edge the contact spring has to go over in order to get to the off position... taking a little bit off there the make it easier for the spring to move up the rise there...


The spring maybe should not be messed with just the position of the spring if it's not on the correct place. Can you get a good pic?


----------



## cleb

Bedford T said:


> The spring maybe should not be messed with just the position of the spring if it's not on the correct place. Can you get a good pic?



after work tonight... it moves between choke and run pretty well... it just won't go over the rise to the off position...


----------



## Bedford T

OTAlucard said:


> On mine. I put my bar studs backwards sadly.
> 
> For the record.
> The saw I built had dinged up gasket surface on the cases. The crank had a bad cast job with bubbles on one lobe . And the cylinder fins were bent. But it runs. Lol
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly I don't think that these aftermarket recoils can withstand the compression. That's why I ordered a replacement decompression valve. The little cap on mine fell off after the saw got warm. I am trying the metal cap forester one for 12 dollars shipped.
> 
> You might be able to center tap a screw hole into the middle of the decompression button and screw the cap onto the shaft with a tiny screw.


It's too late now but when it comes to the decomp valve go oem. They are 20$ they others are 8-12$. 

Example aftermarket stuff is passed around. Stens has some good stuff but it's very expensive and often comes from different supplies just like Forrester etc. Farmertec supplies an awful lot to these other brands so it's hard to know for sure it's orgin. We know that Stihl gets a lot of stuff from these same people.

But the difference here is they test that valve. I think it's just random on the singles. On the saw it's fired up. Sometimes you can find oem used. 

I hate having to reset those am valves every pull. Be great to find an AM that will perform.


----------



## Bedford T

cleb said:


> after work tonight... it moves between choke and run pretty well... it just won't go over the rise to the off position...


I forgot to say why...

It could change the tension.


----------



## Bedford T

cleb said:


> thanks... I give it a try... I was thinking of rounding the edge the contact spring has to go over in order to get to the off position... taking a little bit off there the make it easier for the spring to move up the rise there...



I looked at mine even closer and felt like the spring could be tighter on the contact in the off position so I took the leaf spring off and used two small sized needle nose to bend it ever so slightly at the edge of the hinge on the off control side and it worked perfectly. I included photos in case any part is helpful as you go forward. i would advise you take photos of the triggers position if its your first time, before hand, if you need to go that route. I had it done in 30 minutes. Your statement made me look more critically and doing it now gives a much better result.

to get to the spring I took everything off first and to get the spring off and back on the stud I applied pressure on both sides of the stud and pushed down and it popped off and slid a big flat head under it to popped it back on the stud.


----------



## cleb

brenndatomu said:


> Mine was that way...I put a very light coat of grease on things where they contact/slide...much better now



bingo... little grease and it works like a charm... thanks for the suggestion

edited to add photos for anyone else


----------



## steve easy

Hultz bug has bit me bad, 660 clone has been running good about 12 tanks through it now. Went to get another from the hultz site, but ended up getting 070 kit instead.


----------



## Bedford T

070 Kit is here
http://www.huztl.net/Complete-Repai...er-Muffler-Carburetor-Handle-Bar-p584588.html


----------



## redjeepxj

I received a new fuel tank after the previous one leaked at the seam. Still unable to get the saw to start. If I put fuel directly into the carb it will run. So far it appears fuel is getting to the carb as when I remove the fuel line from the carb it sprays fuel out. Disassembled the carb and it is dry, no debris appear to be clogging anything and the gaskets appear to be good. Not sure where to go from here. Any help is appreciated.


----------



## Bedford T

Did you do a pressure test. Your saw is new and the #1 issue is a leak. That can and will cause what you face. Head bolts, exhaust ....

Another thing I guess your impluse line is on the carb?


----------



## cleb

cleb said:


> bingo... little grease and it works like a charm... thanks for the suggestion
> 
> edited to add photos for anyone else



and my fuel tank leaks at the seams... anyone else run into this?


----------



## Bedford T

cleb said:


> and my fuel tank leaks at the seams... anyone else run into this?


#2986


----------



## Bedford T

I got some parts for my build today. I noticed the chain adjuster fits perfectly. the tolerances were tight and it closed and opened well. The 0 ring is a little stouter than the one i put together last year.

And the wrap handle looks pretty darn good. I bought a hand brake wrap handle and may not need it. appears that the normal huztl hand brake they regularly sell to everyone is the wrap model. that was surprising. I have just a few more pieces coming from Stihl and it will be done.

I have been hunting for the ultimate ms380 carb and i found it. i will post on it when i get the flaw fixed


----------



## Bedford T

These are both ms660 clutches. which one appears to be the best and why do you think so? The top one seems to have thinner outter surfaces and larger springs and the lower one seems to have thicker outer surface and smaller springs
thanks


----------



## BuckthornBonnie

The first pic is what I've used with a lot of success for 1122s. I use oem springs, though. The second pic looks like the older version of 1122 clutch. Is China copying an older part? Odd...
Here's a telling difference that would affect alignment of everything pto side: take a pic of the other side of both clutches. If they're similar then they'll both use the clutch washer and fit like a normal later 064/066/660 clutch. 

However:




See the retainer on the second pic? These style clutches don't use a clutch washer as a spacer. It's integrated into the design.


----------



## BuckthornBonnie

It's doubtful that the other style has this spacer as I think Stihl changed them before 660 production. I know 034, 064, and 029 used the washer-less clutch during most of their runs:


036 clutch- no integrated washer


034 clutches- integrated washer


----------



## BuckthornBonnie

To answer your question (kind of) is that they'd both be fine. The newer design (your first pic) has interlocking shoes that are an upgrade. The larger/more coil springs seem better to me. Heck, look at your 1128 springs that 036/044/046 uses--- lots of coils. (036 pic above).


----------



## Probablywillforget

I bought three more kits during the father's day sale. A couple friends and I spent a few Sunday evenings putting them together. A few things I noticed on these that were different from my first build...

One kit had terrible rubber parts. The impulse line split at the seam, the fuel line elbow and line were already on the handle and the fuel line split upon putting it on the carb.

Another kit had a split in the spark plug boot.

We had to mix and match clutch drums to get all three to have drums that would fit on the crank and bearing and spin without resistance. I put an Oregon drum on my first build.

Still missing the 5mm nuts to put the felling dogs on.

These carbs had the small notch in the butterfly that my first build did not have. They all start and run but I haven't messed with the carbs enough to really try and dial them in. Right now I have one that starts and idles. It will need tuned more after I can get it in some wood. The other two will run but I haven't put a bar and chain on them yet.


----------



## Bedford T

The fuel line comes on all handles and included the elbow. Been that way since day one. You just forgot. That happens to me too. The drum thing is maddening. I got some pics here of a handle I bought to finish an extra engine and those parts came installed as recently as July. What does mix match clutch drums mean? Any of your tanks leak?


----------



## BuckthornBonnie

I think he means that if one drum doesn't spin freely, he changes it out with one that does. Then possibly uses that drum on another saw. I do the same thing with AM drums... unless they're really bad.


----------



## Probablywillforget

BuckthornBonnie said:


> I think he means that if one drum doesn't spin freely, he changes it out with one that does. Then possibly uses that drum on another saw. I do the same thing with AM drums... unless they're really bad.



Correct, we all had our own saws in a box. One saw had clutch that was normal, one seemed kind of sloppy, and one was to tight to even get on. We switched the drums on the tight one and loose one and all three work correctly now.


----------



## Bearhawk

Well, yesterday was the day. I was part of the group buy on these kits on another forum as well as a couple of buddies. One friend came over yesterday to join me in a little "build party" of our MS660s. 

The group buy kits look like the FT kits except the little baggies inside the big box all say "Cross" on them. Both saws now run like champs. The only problems we both had were the kill switch finger seemed just a tad short so when you went to full choke the finger would slip past the cam and fall beyond the cam lobe. The fix was to flatten out the curve of the switch finger and that fixed both. Neither one slipped until we put grease on them. I use lube on things that rub or slide when I put things together so maybe this was my fault. Both also experienced the piston skirt rubbing against the crank weights with the cylinders on. A minute of sanding with 220 grit on the bottom of the skirts took care of it on both. They were just barely rubbing. My cylinder needed a bit of flashing removed around one transfer port but that took more time to get the die grinder out of the toolbox than it did to clean it up. The only other problem on mine was was the fuel line end where it comes out of the fuel tank was misshaped. This meant it was loose at the top of the tank. No problem though because our kit gave us some rubber spares for different things, fuel line was one of those spares. The other saw encountered no other problems. 

We both measured squish without a base gasket and mine came in at .018" and my buddy's was .013". We both used the base gasket and IIRC mine came in at .032" with the gasket and sealer. 

Both saws started after around 5-6 pulls and both sounded pretty mean. We didn't get a chance to saw any wood as it was getting late. 

Overall, I was very surprised at how nice the parts were. Everything fit together well with the exceptions listed above. I was even surprised that both chain brakes worked like a Stihl. I know this has been a problem for many of the earlier kits but both of ours worked as expected. Lastly, I can tell you an MS660 with a 36" bar is HEAVY. The 20" bar is heavy enough but that 36" one is nose heavy and very. I'll be selling one of my two kit saws with the 36" bar. That was the plan all along.


----------



## rd35

3000 replies...WOW


----------



## kjudd

I milled some year old cherry with the HZ660 tonight. It did really good. I had 2 stall outs in the hourish I ran it. Not sure what it was about. It stalled like it ran out of fuel. But I would stand the saw up and it would restart. Not quite sure what's happening there. But I will investigate tomorrow hopefully. Other then that. It's right up there with my BB660 in speed of cut. I will have to mill with that soon to get a better feel between the 2.

Forgot to add it was running 12900 at WOT with no load with a 32in bar. 















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----------



## Bedford T

Sounds like your fuel filter was out of position. Anytime it cuts out like that when milling expect lean.


----------



## kjudd

Bedford T said:


> Sounds like your fuel filter was out of position. Anytime it cuts out like that expect lean.


That's what I was thinking. Fuel filter related. I might get an OE one tomorrow and a new plug. It's running a used NGK from my BB660 right now. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


----------



## Bedford T

kjudd said:


> That's what I was thinking. Fuel filter related. I might get an OE one tomorrow and a new plug. It's running a used NGK from my BB660 right now. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk



i did not mean you need a new filter, just route it correctly inside the tank the service manual will show you which way it should lie. see as the fuel level drops the filter is exposed, so you dont want to go below a certain point, your filter works best when its covered with fuel, if its floating you can weight it. i like ngk too. i guess you know nothing outside the tank is sucking air?


----------



## Bedford T

View attachment 594525
I got in some of my parts and my starter pull cord was missing the shield (http://www.huztl.net/Recoil-Starter...MS660-Chainsaw-OEM-1122-084-7809-p227767.html). I did not catch it until I was going to restring the rotor with elasto start handle http://www.huztl.net/ELASTO-START-H...RECOIL-STARTER-OEM-1113-195-8200-p225749.html. i went ahead and ordered a stihl rope rotor because stringing it is way easier and when you yank real hard it will not split.

huztl said they would get me a cover in the mail and check their stock and make sure it was a one off. they are good people to do business with. I hope to have it by end of next week.

the brake lever is not working right and i got one of those also and the bushing for the shroud. They told me stihl just discontinued those bushings. I am not clear if they are available aftermarket i will need to check to see. But I have some on the way and i can finish and start this big beautiful girl. bushings maybe monday, oem order friday or monday and i will be all set.


----------



## Bedford T

I got a good story. The first 070 bar i got was a stihl and it did not work and i took it back. the parts guy called some guy in technical services and was told yea that bar is suppose to work. so he sold me the right bar and it is not right so he offered to refunded my money on the new bar and i bought cannon.

then my parts orders started getting late and they were incomplete. after a while it got so bad i wondered if he was trying to rile me. I had three orders that had not been filled and all three dates had passed so i went to his boss and told him the story. i said why are you doing this to me. he said they should be here friday. he said they know if its on back order and non of my stuff was. he would look into it. i left.

about an hour later the worker bee called me and said he was trying to get an order together to get my parts. i said i know you have ordered 3 times since i ordered why are you doing this to me. i buy a steady stream of stuff from you. I pay cash, have my part numbers listed and pay in advance and always pick up every part i order quickly. I am a very good customer he said none of these products are available, but they might be if you go some where else. why did you not just tell me that in the first place? he hung up

They were available and cheaper for the next guy. thas just not fair. his boss must have made it hard on him and it passed it along. set me back 3 weeks.


----------



## kjudd

Bedford T said:


> i did not mean you need a new filter, just route it correctly inside the tank the service manual will show you which way it should lie. see as the fuel level drops the filter is exposed, so you dont want to go below a certain point, your filter works best when its covered with fuel, if its floating you can weight it. i like ngk too. i guess you know nothing outside the tank is sucking air?


I know but I figured while I was there I would get one. Good to have a spare one kicking around if I decide not to use it.


----------



## davhul

If your line is in right it could be to stiff to move around the tank. I've never done it but a local tree climber slid a farly large nut over the fuel line before the filter to make it drop at any angle. Here's a little reading on the tank vent and pressure testing the tank.


----------



## Ozhoo

Anyone else try that farmertec version of the elastostart? I broke an arm load back in march and haven't tried them since. I'm always willing to give her another go though if they figured out the issue.


----------



## kjudd

davhul said:


> If your line is in right it could be to stiff to move around the tank. I've never done it but a local tree climber slid a farly large nut over the fuel line before the filter to make it drop at any angle. Here's a little reading on the tank vent and pressure testing the tank.


Thanks I will have to give it a look. (The Tank is 3/4 full right now)


----------



## Bedford T

Hard to tell what broke? Have them on all my saws. Maybe it was a bad run. Did you tell them. Was it the rubber that broke?


----------



## davhul

kjudd said:


> Thanks I will have to give it a look. (The Tank is 3/4 full right now)


If the tank vent isn't working it would probably start to die around 3/4 tank.


----------



## kjudd

davhul said:


> If the tank vent isn't working it would probably start to die around 3/4 tank.



The first time it happened the tank was almost empty and the second time happened at 3/4ish. I will look into the vent as well.

I ordered a mityvac today so I can do pressure/vacuum tests on my saws. I keep building and rebuild more so it will be a wise investment for me.


----------



## Bedford T

No more guessing. You can build them with confidence now


----------



## grizz55chev

kjudd said:


> That's what I was thinking. Fuel filter related. I might get an OE one tomorrow and a new plug. It's running a used NGK from my BB660 right now.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


It's been my experience to make sure the tank is full before every cut, running out in the middle of a cut leaves an ugly scar when you restart and you risk a lean situation.


----------



## kjudd

grizz55chev said:


> It's been my experience to make sure the tank is full before every cut, running out in the middle of a cut leaves an ugly scar when you restart and you risk a lean situation.


I usual do 2 cuts on the smaller stuff before fueling. Generally leaves me with about a 1/4 tank depending on all the variables. (But I was rushing that night should have slowed down some) I have learned my lesson about running out mid cut. Lol

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


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## OTAlucard

I Used my ms660 clone today for a job Just for that job it was worth it Anything after this is a plus 

I was pretty amazed how fast it actually cut through some large oak logs It still needs some tuning it was leaning out in the cut so I turned the high jet out a little bit 
Just amazing Is all I can say


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## Bedford T

For the working man [emoji4]


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## Albert Beerstein

Ozhoo said:


> Anyone else try that farmertec version of the elastostart? I broke an arm load back in march and haven't tried them since. I'm always willing to give her another go though if they figured out the issue.
> View attachment 594577


Yep tried 2 of them a couple of months back and broke both..


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## Ozhoo

Bedford T said:


> Hard to tell what broke? Have them on all my saws. Maybe it was a bad run. Did you tell them. Was it the rubber that broke?



Most broke where the lower stop is molded to the elastomer. It seems like there was no slack in the line between the upper and lower stops. I sent 40 or so back but still have another 10-20 sitting around.


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## Bedford T

What's breaking?


----------



## Bedford T

Ozhoo said:


> Most broke where the lower stop is molded to the elastomer. It seems like there was no slack in the line between the upper and lower stops. I sent 40 or so back but still have another 10-20 sitting around.
> 
> View attachment 594939


They should know about it then. The ones on my 440 and 380 are working guess I should slow down on the 660 until I am sure again.


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## Ozhoo

Bedford T said:


> They should know about it then. The ones on my 440 and 380 are working guess I should slow down on the 660 until I am sure again.



PM me your address and I'll send you a couple to try.


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## kjudd

It appears my fuel line is oriented in the handle correctly. Next step is to look I the tank.






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## kjudd

I think I found my problem. It's hard to tell in the picture but the filter is sitting at about a 60 degree angle up the back side of tank. 

The bottom of the picture is the verticle side of the tank where the handle is. 





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## Bedford T

Ozhoo said:


> PM me your address and I'll send you a couple to try.


I believe ya. I was talking about speaking up so they could fix it. A 660 pulls fairly hard. That could have something to do with why my two survived.


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## Bedford T

kjudd said:


> It appears my fuel line is oriented in the handle correctly. Next step is to look I the tank.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


If your filter which of course is attached to your line was out of place inside your tank when you had your saw on its side while milling that was what I was referring to. As your tank of fuel depletes it can suck air and cause problems. Easy to happen on a new build.


So keeping that tank full as possible is good insurance


----------



## Bedford T

kjudd said:


> I think I found my problem. It's hard to tell in the picture but the filter is sitting at about a 60 degree angle up the back side of tank.
> 
> The bottom of the picture is the verticle side of the tank where the handle is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


That's it


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## kjudd

Bedford T said:


> If your filter which of course is attached to your line was out of place inside your tank when you had your saw on its side while milling that was what I was referring to. As your tank of fuel depletes it can suck air and cause problems. Easy to happen on a new build.


Yep I just posted a picture of my filter showing exactly what you explained. Lol. I will have to get it fixed before I mess the saw up to bad. But first I'm pressure/vac testing it tomorrow hopefully. My mityvac is suppose to be here tomorrow 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


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## Bedford T

I mentioned it earlier and was not sure I was clear. Glad you stopped and looked. Good luck on your pressure testing. Great insurance.


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## Bedford T

Ozhoo said:


> PM me your address and I'll send you a couple to try.


How much more slack should there be? I have never looked at one closely until now.


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## kjudd

I pressure and vacuum tested my HZ660. It looses 1 psi of pressure in 1min 30 sec and it looses 1 inHg in the same time. Is the exeptible? 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


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## Bedford T

That's great. Manual wants 20secs. Congrats


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## Bedford T

When your fuel is empty, blow out the line of remaining fuel and test it. You can even test your carb.


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## kjudd

Sorry the tank is perfect passed the tests with flying colors. Those numbers are for the engine. 

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## Bedford T

I understood. I was offering additional things to test with your new toy.


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## kjudd

Bedford T said:


> I understood. I was offering additional things to test with your new toy.


I have another saw that's getting tested soon. Lol

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## Ozhoo

Bedford T said:


> How much more slack should there be? I have never looked at one closely until now.



Sorry for the slow response. Here's a side-by-side comparison. That's a Huztl on the left, Hyway in the middle and OEM on the right. All new from the package.


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## Bedford T

Ozhoo said:


> Sorry for the slow response. Here's a side-by-side comparison. That's a Huztl on the left, Hyway in the middle and OEM on the right. All new from the package.
> View attachment 595173


Dang that nails it. I will just order an oem. I have a farmertec installed. I just finished my new 660. I can wait a bit longer. That was very helpful for us all on the. Poof's in the pudding.

The wrap handle requires 3 hands and a rubber hammer to install. It got slightly out of whack on the ride over. But it's right now. A reminder when buying the huztl brake handle you do not need to buy a different brake handle theirs is the one you need, got the right slant.


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## Bedford T

If you don't mind I am gonna borrow your photo and put it in the wish thread


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## LT1Pat

I just finished building the ms660 (I've never built a saw or even worked on one before). It took about 4 hours of work and it went pretty straight forward. I forgot the AV mount that went against the gas tank so I had to take a lot of it back apart to put that on. The part diagrams made it fairly easy with a little bit of problem solving. I didn't use a base gasket and ended up with .027" of quench. I didn't need any special tools to press the crank on because it just tapped in place with a piece of wood and a hammer. It's not a tight press fit at all. 

I ran into 3 problems:

1.) The fuel cap o-ring was too loose and leaked fuel. I ordered a replacement OEM cap gasket. 
2.) The pull start often stuck when you pulled it to the full extension. I fixed this by winding the starter a few extra turns and it seems to be good.
3.) The saw quit running and after investigating I found that the ignition coil failed. The coil itself still checks out fine with 8.4kohm but even with the shut-off switch leads disconnected and the spark plug threads grounded to the cylinder it's not sparking anymore. I'm finding that there's no resistance between the shutoff leads. It seems like something internal is shorting. 

Overall it ran great and seems like a beast. It cut through a 42" log very quickly.


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## galvprobigd

well i've spent the last 3 weeks reading this thread, all 153 pages. ordered as 660 kit last monday along with some parts to repair my 034av that somebody strait gassed. they showed up today and hope to start putting it together friday sometime. was gonna but the oem saw until i read this post and watched alot of yall's videos. seems most of the problems have been ironed out over the course of this thread except for the leaky fuel tanks that seemed to have popped up as of late. thanks for all yall's hard work and and documentation. where did you guys find the exploded views/assyembly drawings of this saw?


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## Bedford T

Look in the sticky thread of this chainsaw section and ask for what you need in the beg thread
Do you have a pressure pump?


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## dswensen

galvprobigd said:


> well i've spent the last 3 weeks reading this thread, all 153 pages. ordered as 660 kit last monday along with some parts to repair my 034av that somebody strait gassed. they showed up today and hope to start putting it together friday sometime. was gonna but the oem saw until i read this post and watched alot of yall's videos. seems most of the problems have been ironed out over the course of this thread except for the leaky fuel tanks that seemed to have popped up as of late. thanks for all yall's hard work and and documentation. where did you guys find the exploded views/assyembly drawings of this saw?



PM me your e-mail address and I'll send you one.


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## galvprobigd

Bedford T said:


> Look in the sticky thread of this chainsaw section and ask for what you need in the beg thread
> Do you have a pressure pump?


I'm gonna stop and get one tomorrow or Friday. Still need to get a few things from the dealer before I reall tear into it


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## galvprobigd

dswensen said:


> PM me your e-mail address and I'll send you one.


Thank you I'd really appreciate it. Gotta figure out how to pm you


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## galvprobigd

Are both bar studs the same in the kit or does one have a large tapered shoulder and the other a short flat shoulder?


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## Bedford T

Both the same. Short flat shoulders. The other ones are available and are more recent.


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## galvprobigd

These are the studs I got in my kit


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## Bedford T

They just ran out of the flat shoulders ask them to send you one with the broad shoulders

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## galvprobigd

Bedford T said:


> They just ran out of the flat shoulders ask them to send you one with the broad shoulders
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Comical and aggravating to have two different studs in the same bag.


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## Bedford T

Very much so.


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## galvprobigd

Bedford T said:


> Very much so.


What's the best email to use to get in touch with huztl for problems like this?


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## Ozhoo

galvprobigd said:


> What's the best email to use to get in touch with huztl for problems like this?



Be gentle with her 

Miss Maggie Tong
[email protected]


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## galvprobigd

Ozhoo said:


> Be gentle with her
> 
> Miss Maggie Tong
> [email protected]


Thanks, Ozhoo. Got to clean all the chips out of the case halves and finish inventory on some of the small stuff. And hit the dealer up today before he closes.


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## 67L36Driver

galvprobigd said:


> Comical and aggravating to have two different studs in the same bag.



Their parts bins are cross contaminated I suspect.

Mismatched parts happens quite frequently.


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## Bedford T

galvprobigd said:


> What's the best email to use to get in touch with huztl for problems like this?


Actually the messaging system on the website is the best way. You have your orders and tracking right there and the email client does not get stupid on you like some do when you hit reply (ya Yahoo I am talking to you) in a long chain. 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## galvprobigd

Bedford T said:


> Actually the messaging system on the website is the best way. You have your orders and tracking right there and the email client does not get stupid on you like some do when you hit reply (ya Yahoo I am talking to you) in a long chain.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


The message part on my account on my order?


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## Bedford T

galvprobigd said:


> The message part on my account on my order?


Log into your account on huztl, click my account, menu on left besides your list of orders in the long list of options to the left where there is write a message or my messages. include the order# which there is a list right there. That was my point, has all the info you need to solve all your needs.


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## galvprobigd

Bedford T said:


> Log into your account on huztl, click my account, menu on left besides your list of orders in the long list of options to the left where there is write a message or my messages. include the order# which there is a list right there. That was my point, has all the info you need to solve all your needs.


Thanks Bedford, that's what I did but remember others in the past having problems with them answering emails in the past


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## Bedford T

You won't have that issue with the messaging system

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## lindnova

So the Hutzl 660 runs great. Was working it on some dead elm yesterday and a branch started to pinch the bar. As I pulled on it I bent the handle bar badly. It just folded up easily. 

Don't have much confidence in the safety of this saw. The brake does seem to work ok and lost a chain in some brush and the roller catcher worked.

Never had that happen with Stihl or the aftermarket I have on the 461 (not sure what is on it, but got on Ebay).


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## Bedford T

Glad you did not get hurt.

You must have noticed how light the handle was when you installed it? I did. I put the wrap handle on my second one.


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## Ozhoo

Others have found the half wrap to be weak. Give the 3/4 wrap a try. Much stronger material w/ a better design.


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## Mattyo

Gary, thanks for the goodies...

and I like the 3/4 wrap on my 660


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## kjudd

I have a 3/4 wrap on my 461. And I really like it so far. 

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## galvprobigd

Without a base gasket I'm getting .037-39 on the squish. Is this ok or should I machine down the base on the cylinder to reduce the measurement?


----------



## kjudd

galvprobigd said:


> Without a base gasket I'm getting .037-39 on the squish. Is this ok or should I machine down the base on the cylinder to reduce the measurement?



My guess would be yes to machining it down. Mines .022 inches with no base gasket. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


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## galvprobigd

Machined it down to .018
And added a .003 paper gasket


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## galvprobigd

well, got it all together. anybody have a bad carb right out of the box?


----------



## BuckthornBonnie

galvprobigd said:


> well, got it all together. anybody have a bad carb right out of the box?


Yes, unfortunately.


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## Ozhoo

galvprobigd said:


> well, got it all together. anybody have a bad carb right out of the box?



It's not unheard of, but not very common. Does it fire with fix poured down the carb? Did you do a p&v test? 

With chi-carbs I usually start at 1 turn each and keep backing up the L side a 1/4 turn till I get some response. I've stopped being surprised when some needing 2 turns.


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## galvprobigd

It wouldn't start on gas poured in the carb or on ether. After I posted, I went and tried to start it some more and has gas in the muffler. I did back them out one turn. It had spark out of the cylinder but not as good as I would have liked so I'm Gonna change out the plug and see what happens. Can you tell me how to check the coil to see if it's weak? Have a .009" gap from the flywheel. 


Ozhoo said:


> It's not unheard of, but not very common. Does it fire with fix poured down the carb? Did you do a p&v test?
> 
> With chi-carbs I usually start at 1 turn each and keep backing up the L side a 1/4 turn till I get some response. I've stopped being surprised when some needing 2 turns.


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## Mattyo

I had one with a carb that dripped fuel sitting there....flooded immediately. 

I think I ended up adjusting the lever height and it was fine...


----------



## tbohn

I ordered some rear handle assemblies from Huztl ebay. They are not the same quality as what I have been receiving from Huztl. They are a flat finish unlike oem and the texture of the plastic appears low quality. They probably received a bad batch from a supplier.

The issue is that they have been giving me the run around about replacing them. I have told them several times that I can not use them since they do not match the other orange parts and oem. I will give them another try and then report them to ebay. Huztl usually gives me a little push back on missing and broken but they normally makes it right. If I have worry about getting stuck with subpar parts, I will stop doing business with them.

Be careful!


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## Bedford T

I just ordered a handle and there are photos of several handles around post 2983 about page 150 showing the color. mine was great. i did bend my spring slightly. hope you get it sorted. we would miss building kits with ya, you just said how nice your 070 kit was. maybe they can pull you back from the edge.

i ordered my bar from huztl today for my new 660 build. they had nothing longer than a 28" so i went with that. 32 would have been nice.
http://www.huztl.net/28-Guide-Bar-S...60-MS461-MS660-MS661-MS650-MS880-p509345.html custom waits are getting longer for me.

the tank guard came and i am still waiting on the shutter/slide, it was backordered.


----------



## tbohn

I think I will get resolution to the issue. They said they will send replacement housings (the orange part of the rear handle) to replace the defective ones.

I put together a ms180 kit yesterday and had several broken parts and a few missing parts. It was interesting that some of the broken parts were in sealed bags and the broken off peices were not in the bags. Quality control still is frustrating.


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## galvprobigd

My 660 went together with all the factory parts nicely but I had two different bar studs in the same sealed bag and the carb is flooding out the engine even with the screws all the way in. Those are my only problems right now. We'll see if I can repair the carb or not and get it running


----------



## White Pine

I am new here.... but have checked out Hutzl.net pricing for the MS660. The kits are certainly priced attractively, but they gone since thread first started? Or, do they offer occasional specials. 

Seems like several paid $140 initially and now are tracking at $186?


----------



## galvprobigd

White Pine said:


> I am new here.... but have checked out Hutzl.net pricing for the MS660. The kits are certainly priced attractively, but they gone since thread first started? Or, do they offer occasional specials.
> 
> Seems like several paid $140 initially and now are tracking at $186?


I paid $186 for mine. No problems with the chain tensioner or the chain brake on mine. Just got it two weeks ago


----------



## CR888

galvprobigd said:


> I paid $186 for mine. No problems with the chain tensioner or the chain brake on mine. Just got it two weeks ago


Perhaps 2 weeks is a little early to give the thumbs up on Chinese parts. After 2 years I could take your recommendation more seriously.


----------



## Nuzzy81

I got mine off Arbortec.com for $140 last month when they were the deal of the day. Got delivered within 2 weeks as well.


----------



## galvprobigd

CR888 said:


> Perhaps 2 weeks is a little early to give the thumbs up on Chinese parts. After 2 years I could take your recommendation more seriously.


I should have clarified my statement in saying all the problems that people were having with the chain adjuster and the brake didn't happen with my saw. Everything went together well and worked as they should. The carb is another story as it leaks fuel with the screws turned all the way in to the stops


----------



## Nuzzy81

Thanks to this thread I Finished building mine today, first time doing a saw from the ground up. My chain adjuster and chain brake worked well, I also had the brass grommets for the top cover and the summer/winter flap included. Only things I was missing was 3 nuts for the dogs. I just built it as is, no OEM parts and no base gasket. 2 things I had to adjust was the on/off/choke wasn't set up properly and I had to pull it apart to put it all in the correct order, and the catch for the chain oiler was bent slightly wrong and didn't catch the brake drum so the oiler wasn't working but was easy enough to rectify. 

It popped on the 5th pull on full choke then started and idled after another 7-8 pulls with no choke. Haven't tuned it yet but set the low and high at 1-1/4 turns out as suggested earlier in this thread.


----------



## redjeepxj

Bedford T said:


> Did you do a pressure test. Your saw is new and the #1 issue is a leak. That can and will cause what you face. Head bolts, exhaust ....
> 
> Another thing I guess your impluse line is on the carb?




So I finally got the saw running it did have a leak at the head. Once that was fixed the carb still wasn't letting fuel thru to the motor. Ended up getting another carb and once installed it started right up.


----------



## davhul

redjeepxj said:


> So I finally got the saw running it did have a leak at the head. Once that was fixed the carb still wasn't letting fuel thru to the motor. Ended up getting another carb and once installed it started right up.



Have you tried it out in some wood? 
Check and see if it holds a tune. 
My tune might change some going from cold to hot weather but other than that it shouldn't change. This one holds a tune good running a walbro wj-76 carb. 25" bar


----------



## Hydro74

Has anybody solved the kill switch issue only full choke, run and off no fast idle setting as on the oem stihl the problem seems to be where the finger trigger lobe touches the inner kill switch lobe I've tried an oem switch and no luck the issue seems to be in the orange housing where the switch sits in the recessed grooves there about 3mm to deep


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Bedford T

I used a straw I cut into a canoe and strapped it to the switch along the bottom raising it like the orange had more and it worked perfect. My saw I built last month did not have that trouble. I just got another kit left China today we will see when it arrives.

I might have had to use several layers can't recall how many.

Edit
I think it was 4 and I used a flat thin tie to hold the them in place around the bar


----------



## davhul

Your right it's the left side slot. It's to loose. I used a piece of leather off a glove and put it in the groove behind the control switch to temp fix one. Then I made a small plastic bushing later. I don't have a pic at the moment


----------



## Bedford T

davhul said:


> Your right it's the left side slot. It's to loose. I used a piece of leather off a glove and put it in the groove behind the control switch to temp fix one. Then I made a small plastic bushing later. I don't have a pic at the moment


Good old days figuring it out


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## snake_2586

I am sure this has been covered before in this thread, but I'm to lazy to read through 155 pages this morning, I was trying this new build out last weekend doing some milling, and true to form after about 10mins the top of the decompressor valve fell off, so have ordered a stihl one to replace that, all went well with no other problems occurring, but when i went in to the shed last evening, the half a tank of fuel had managed to disappear and it seems to have run down from the carb area (don't seem to be able to add a pic). I'm thinking the valve in the carb might not be shutting? any suggestions welcome.


----------



## Ozhoo

snake_2586 said:


> ...but when i went in to the shed last evening, the half a tank of fuel had managed to disappear and it seems to have run down from the carb area (don't seem to be able to add a pic). I'm thinking the valve in the carb might not be shutting? any suggestions welcome.



It could be other things but most likely would be the section of fuel line between the carb and the elbow leaking at the carb.


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## snake_2586

ok thanks will have a better look, took the filter and that backing piece off and it all just looks wet.


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## Ian rogerson

Built the 066 kit onky part missing was the oil seal for pump but cut one from spare fuel line in kit till i ordered one from stihl.verry happy with performance of saw. A friend purchased one last year and has cut a lot of jarrah timber over our winter and is more than happy with saw. I have just built the 070 kit which looks awesome and runs great. looking forward to using it on a mill


----------



## splitpost

Just got through putting another top end on my brothers 660 ,the cylinder and piston have failed ,looks like the cylinder is chrome not nicasil,has worn through in a few places,rest of the saw is good ,replaced the top end with a meteor and she's going good again ,would I buy one ,yes ,but I won't be running the hutzl p&c

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## dswensen

splitpost said:


> Just got through putting another top end on my brothers 660 ,the cylinder and piston have failed ,looks like the cylinder is chrome not nicasil,has worn through in a few places,rest of the saw is good ,replaced the top end with a meteor and she's going good again ,would I buy one ,yes ,but I won't be running the hutzl p&c
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910G using Tapatalk




How much run time on that failed Huztl P/C?


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## blsnelling

Bedford T said:


> We know that Stihl gets a lot of stuff from these same people.



Are you suggesting that Stihl gets parts from FarmerTec and Huztl?


----------



## splitpost

dswensen said:


> How much run time on that failed Huztl P/C?


Can't say how many hours really but it's 4 months old only used for firewood duty on weekends 

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## davhul

I've got one that's got about 10-15 gallons through it. I'm going to put a oem bearing in soon before it fails and I'll see how the cylinder looks.


----------



## dswensen

davhul said:


> I've got one that's got about 10-15 gallons through it. I'm going to put a oem bearing in soon before it fails and I'll see how the cylinder looks.



I'm behind on my reading. Which bearing is suspect?


----------



## davhul

Wrist pin. Good to see you back


----------



## BTarb24

Rather coincidental that this old thread is currently talking about failed p/c. Mine just failed with a piston skirt being broken off and chewed into tiny pieces. I had around 20 hours on it. Rather light use with bucking up a couple softwood trees and then a few hours in milling some douglas fir. I could tell the compression had softened up quite a bit after just the bucking. I was able to start it without the decomp.. which i had no chance of doing when it was first built. Then came the 3h of milling. It had plenty of power and milled the 20-26in x 7feet doug fir logs with ease. On the last few cuts it would idle a bit rough no matter how i tuned it. Then, today it simply wouldn't start. I found that the compression was down to 105psi and that's when i discovered the broken piston skirt.

i made another thread to tell the story and include a bunch of pics for those that are interested.
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/hutzl-ms660-failure-20h.313813/


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## artwood

Interesting thread.
Thinking about building the 660 kit. About how long does it take to put together?


----------



## davhul

The last one I did took around 3 hrs but I've done a few. That was with a mix of factory and standard tools with the leak testing. 
For anyone's first time I would break it up into sections and watch some vids. I know @Bedford has some vids that's done in easy to follow steps. Afterward you'll have a good strong saw you can fix your self. Tomorrow I plan on testing the HO oil pump I have. It needs it running a 36" bar or maybe milling.


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## Bedford T

Heres a link.


http://www.arboristsite.com/community/index.php?threads/313223/


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## Hydro74

davhul said:


> The last one I did took around 3 hrs but I've done a few. That was with a mix of factory and standard tools with the leak testing.
> For anyone's first time I would break it up into sections and watch some vids. I know @Bedford has some vids that's done in easy to follow steps. Afterward you'll have a good strong saw you can fix your self. Tomorrow I plan on testing the HO oil pump I have. It needs it running a 36" bar or maybe milling.



Could I ask where you got the HO oil pumps they look like aftermarket I remember someone had posted awhile back about modding the current huztl ones to put out a bit better


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## Bedford T

Hydro74 said:


> Could I ask where you got the HO oil pumps they look like aftermarket I remember someone had posted awhile back about modding the current huztl ones to put out a bit better
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


eBay look it up by part #


----------



## davhul

Hydro74 said:


> Could I ask where you got the HO oil pumps they look like aftermarket I remember someone had posted awhile back about modding the current huztl ones to put out a bit better
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



It is aftermarket off eBay The oem part # to reference the HO pump is 
1122 640 3201. This pump has a 1.15mm stroke. The standard is 
1122 640 3205 w/ a 0.9 stroke. 
The control bolt and pump piston could be swapped out to make it HO also. Part # 1122 647 0602 pump piston. And 1128 647 4802 control bolt. I found modding these two pieces was to difficult.


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## Hydro74

Thanks for the info!


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## Ozhoo

davhul said:


> It is aftermarket off eBay The oem part # to reference the HO pump is
> 1122 640 3201. This pump has a 1.15mm stroke. The standard is
> 1122 640 3205 w/ a 0.9 stroke.
> The control bolt and pump piston could be swapped out to make it HO also. Part # 1122 647 0602 pump piston. And 1128 647 4802 control bolt. I found modding these two pieces was to difficult.



Have you compared the piston/bolt between the aftermarket HO oiler and standard? I'm curious if it's actually a HO oiler or just marketed as one.


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## davhul

That is a concern with a lot of AM parts. I haven't but will when I take the old one off. 
I ordered these from a supplier that bedford contacted and the guy actually pulled the part and assured him it was a HO and the description was correct.


----------



## Bedford T

davhul said:


> This a concern with a lot of AM parts. I haven't but will when I take the old one off.
> I ordered these from a supplier that bedford contacted and the guy actually pulled the part and assured him it was a HO and the description was correct.


Dave the proof will be when you bolt that 36" bar up and it's damp after running it. Don't take it apart. We take chances all the time on 16$ parts. If it works great the guy told me the truth, if not just another day in America

Until you try it, if it don't and your curious, I would be maybe


----------



## davhul

True. I think I can measure the stroke with a caliper to tell if it's more than the one I'm taking off without disassembly.


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## davhul

I noticed I posted in the wrong 660 so I copy to here. Got a chance to test my HO oil pump. From the start when tried it with the bar off I could tell it pumped way more so that was great. 
But in my vid I had to stop due to the pump failed. It now barely puts out and the adjustment screw is loose and just flops around. I haven't pulled it yet to take a look at it. I have 2 more so I'm going to get my money back on this one. I've had trouble in the past but I bought this one on eBay so I know I'll atleast get my money back. The saw ran great though and I liked how snappy the throttle felt. I tuned it to 12,8. Very little smoke running 32:1


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## TimTaylor

I like how that runs as well. 

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## drumbum

WOW and dang. I read 156 pages and all I learned is Buford P is a bit of a douche










But on a serious note I also learned that I wouldn't enjoy building a saw from chicom.  Hope I didn't offend anyone.


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## TimTaylor

drumbum said:


> WOW and dang. I read 156 pages and all I learned is Buford P is a bit of a douche[emoji23]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But on a serious note I also learned that I wouldn't enjoy building a saw from chicom.  Hope I didn't offend anyone.


No offence taken (by me anyway), but I think its possible you are a slow learner, if it took you 156 pages to learn just those two things. Can't see why you would read all of that if you had no interest in building a copy saw......unless you are a troll.....No offense intended of course.

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## rd35

Do I sense a bit if escalation in the light hearted jabs???


----------



## davhul

TimTaylor said:


> No offence taken (by me anyway), but I think its possible you are a slow learner, if it took you 156 pages to learn just those two things. Can't see why you would read all of that if you had no interest in building a copy saw......unless you are a troll.....No offense intended of course.
> 
> Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L22 using Tapatalk



I was thinking the same thing. But I think very little reading went on. During that 156 pages of reading there would have been a comment or question way before now


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## IQRaceworks

I've been trying to do some research on these Huztl saw kits......I don't need another saw, but they are cheap enough that I thought it might be a fun winter project.

I'm sorry, but I don't have time to read all 156 pages of this thread. Can someone give me a quick summary? Are the kits good, decent, junk? They sell 8 different Stihl parts kits....are any better than the rest as far as quality goes? For a nice around the farm type saw.....what one would be best? Sorry....I don't know much about all of the different steel model numbers.....I've only got a few Echo saws and a Poulan 5020 (that has been a great saw).

Any info would be great! Thanks!!


----------



## EB Saw

IQRaceworks said:


> I've been trying to do some research on these Huztl saw kits......I don't need another saw, but they are cheap enough that I thought it might be a fun winter project.
> 
> I'm sorry, but I don't have time to read all 156 pages of this thread. Can someone give me a quick summary? Are the kits good, decent, junk? They sell 8 different Stihl parts kits....are any better than the rest as far as quality goes? For a nice around the farm type saw.....what one would be best? Sorry....I don't know much about all of the different steel model numbers.....I've only got a few Echo saws and a Poulan 5020 (that has been a great saw).
> 
> Any info would be great! Thanks!!


They make great winter projects!! I built up a nice 440 kit earlier this year. The basic build is the same for a 660 so information should be able to work for both. 
1. the little things are what i found to cause issues, such as the decomp button, the glue they use is crap just buy oem.
2. the tank vent i found not working right, just buy oem.
3. my chain brake spring was wrong, idk if they solved that issue but i bought oem for that. 
The little things had some hickups but the oem ones are all under a few buck so no big deal.
The piston pin retaining clips are trash!!! just buy oem ones. the spring steel they use isn't spring steel they just bend and break off.. no good, they are very cheap from the stihl dealer. 

I just bought a meteor piston kit for mine and upgraded the piston, pin, and retaining clips, i think it was like 70 bucks or something on ebay. 

There will be many assembly and disassembly moments but keep building it will eventually be complete


----------



## TPA

I have not yet read the last 30 pages of this thread so forgive me if this has already been proposed.

I would like to request that someone, on their next build, use a can of computer duster on the crank bearing journals at assembly.

right before you take the case halves out of the oven, turn the computer duster can upside down and spray the bearing journals to cool them...a lot!

I have not tried this, and I would like to know if there is too much metal mass for the can to be effective at removing the heat.


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## IQRaceworks

What about a bar? The Oregon 32" bars are crazy expensive.......is there some china brand 32" bar I can get for a good price that will match the China 660 Huztl saw kit? I didn't see any on the Huztl side that big.


----------



## TPA

Did any of you experience a weak ignition on your kits? I get a spark, and the saw will mildly pop sometimes when trying to start, but I can't get it to run.


----------



## grizz55chev

Compression check.


----------



## TPA

good point, that's now first on my list when I get back to it.


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## TPA

compression came in at 170psi.

Today, I pulled on the starter some more. I sprayed carb cleaner in the carburetor...no dice.
I took the spark plug out and sprayed in the spark plug hole, and it started on the 2nd pull.
I had initial settings at 1 turn out each, and it was very rich. I tried a little to bring the low speed in first then set the high speed.
I never could get it to tune. It starts to rev then falls on it's face. It idles nice, and when it does rev, I think it is too fast (too lean).
If I try to correct it, it seems to get too rich.

I will try to look for obvious stuff later.

I may just get an OEM carb.


----------



## Bedford T

TPA said:


> compression came in at 170psi.
> 
> Today, I pulled on the starter some more. I sprayed carb cleaner in the carburetor...no dice.
> I took the spark plug out and sprayed in the spark plug hole, and it started on the 2nd pull.
> I had initial settings at 1 turn out each, and it was very rich. I tried a little to bring the low speed in first then set the high speed.
> I never could get it to tune. It starts to rev then falls on it's face. It idles nice, and when it does rev, I think it is too fast (too lean).
> If I try to correct it, it seems to get too rich.
> 
> I will try to look for obvious stuff later.
> 
> I may just get an OEM carb.


There is a great am carb that works well in these. I have a video on my website on them link in footer. If you try one make seller attest that is what he is sending ya. Pulling on these and not firing is maddening


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## TPA

I have not replaced the carb yet.

I am still poking around at this saw every now and then, and a couple of times a day I start it up rev it a bit and let it idle for a while. Each time it seems to run better and respond a little more to tuning.

I can't decide on a convincing conclusion as to why the carb would perform better over time. Could it be the cylinder breaking in some?


----------



## Bedford T

TPA said:


> I have not replaced the carb yet.
> 
> I am still poking around at this saw every now and then, and a couple of times a day I start it up rev it a bit and let it idle for a while. Each time it seems to run better and respond a little more to tuning.
> 
> I can't decide on a convincing conclusion as to why the carb would perform better over time. Could it be the cylinder breaking in some?


I was not urging you to get a carb, just letting you know you actually had a good option. It can be a ton of things. First fill your tank each time. The hose will have link in it and you want the pickup in fuel at all times until you get everything sorted and still then but now you are getting it's feet wet.

You said you had good compression. I guess you checked your pulse while you were doing your pressure/vac test. Your fuel is recent from the gas station? Your spark has a good blue color to it and will jump a good gap? Plug is new? Your gap on your flywheel is perfect? 

I trust most of the am parts I use. I only trust that one am carb. The saw is just to big to be fooling around with. I found today that definitive Dave has that carb in his store, he also sells the .74 jet and both those will lather that saw right up. If you check all your dots and cross all your t's you will arrive at the right decision. A crappy carb is a threat to it's health and your sanity.


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## uprangewilly

TPA said:


> Did any of you experience a weak ignition on your kits? I get a spark, and the saw will mildly pop sometimes when trying to start, but I can't get it to run.


 
My coil was dead out of the box. Did the same as yours and would pour gas out exhaust. I got a new one off eBay, fired right up.


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## galvprobigd

Got the 660 kit together. Took for ever to get it started (3 days of pulling rope and dumping fuel) it finally started and got it tuned with a Rach to 12500rpm. If it sits for a few days it starts with some effort and runs pretty good but if I shut it down and try to start it 30mins later it will flood itself pretty bad. Dump fuel from the piston and let it sit a few days before it will start again. Replaced the carb and same problem. Any ideas? Been running the vp canned gas in it. Spark seems good with the plug out resting on the cylinder


----------



## Bedford T

galvprobigd said:


> Got the 660 kit together. Took for ever to get it started (3 days of pulling rope and dumping fuel) it finally started and got it tuned with a Rach to 12500rpm. If it sits for a few days it starts with some effort and runs pretty good but if I shut it down and try to start it 30mins later it will flood itself pretty bad. Dump fuel from the piston and let it sit a few days before it will start again. Replaced the carb and same problem. Any ideas? Been running the vp canned gas in it. Spark seems good with the plug out resting on the cylinder


Based on starts will not restart I would suspect my coil. The flood is a natural occurrence when you keep trying to start it and it does not fire. You could have more than one problem. I don't trust many small am carbs, only one on the 660

But, this is the big but. Since you just got it together I would first suspect a big air leak. Yes a big one would cause all your problems. Happened me and I bought the pressure tester.


----------



## kjudd

galvprobigd said:


> Got the 660 kit together. Took for ever to get it started (3 days of pulling rope and dumping fuel) it finally started and got it tuned with a Rach to 12500rpm. If it sits for a few days it starts with some effort and runs pretty good but if I shut it down and try to start it 30mins later it will flood itself pretty bad. Dump fuel from the piston and let it sit a few days before it will start again. Replaced the carb and same problem. Any ideas? Been running the vp canned gas in it. Spark seems good with the plug out resting on the cylinder



It could be your metering lever in the carb is off. There is a video somewhere how to adjust them. But people with the same symptoms as your saw say that's the problem.

Edit
I found this hope it helps


----------



## dswensen

kjudd said:


> It could be your metering lever in the carb is off. There is a video somewhere how to adjust them. But people with the same symptoms as your saw say that's the problem.
> 
> Edit
> I found this hope it helps



For those new to adjusting carb metering levers, this video shows how to adjust the lever, but doesn't show that the amount of adjustment needs to be measured. The final height of the lever is critical to carb performance. The lever can't be too high or too low - it needs to be "just right". Different carb makes and models have different specs for the proper height of the metering lever relative to the surrounding body of the carb. Most carb makers offer a measuring tool that will help with this adjustment.


----------



## galvprobigd

Bedford T said:


> Based on starts will not restart I would suspect my coil. The flood is a natural occurrence when you keep trying to start it and it does not fire. You could have more than one problem. I don't trust many small am carbs, only one on the 660
> 
> But, this is the big but. Since you just got it together I would first suspect a big air leak. Yes a big one would cause all your problems. Happened me and I bought the pressure tester.


I'l pressure check t again. I suspected the coil.


----------



## galvprobigd

kjudd said:


> It could be your metering lever in the carb is off. There is a video somewhere how to adjust them. But people with the same symptoms as your saw say that's the problem.
> 
> Edit
> I found this hope it helps



I was wondering if there was something hanging in the carb dumping gas. I had the low at 1/2 turn out and hi at 3/4 when I tuned it and thought that was weird bc of what ever ne else was getting on turns out from bottom


----------



## galvprobigd

dswensen said:


> For those new to adjusting carb metering levers, this video shows how to adjust the lever, but doesn't show that the amount of adjustment needs to be measured. The final height of the lever is critical to carb performance. The lever can't be too high or too low - it needs to be "just right". Different carb makes and models have different specs for the proper height of the metering lever relative to the surrounding body of the carb. Most carb makers offer a measuring tool that will help with this adjustment.


Thanks I'll look around for a tool for this carb. It' a copy of a walbro. Even has their name on it lol no infringeent there lol


----------



## uprangewilly

I would highly suggest trying a new coil before messing with the metering rod in the carb.
My coil was just a few hundred ohms out of spec and it would do the same thing. I would get it running then it was hard to start. Finally it just would not start anymore. You can get a new coil off eBay for $13 shipping included.


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## IQRaceworks

Man....I really want to order one of the 660 kits and put a big 30" bar on the thing.......but I know it would end up setting on the shelf most of the time.....and probably wouldn't ever get used...ever. My little modded Poulan Wild Thing cuts firewood just fine....and that's really all I need.

Are there any of the smaller "Stihl Copy" saw kits from Huztl that would suit me better.....something I could use to fell small trees and can firewood? I don't need a 660 with 30" bar to cut 8" diameter firewood logs.......I need something light, easy to handle, and something that cuts fast with a smaller 16"-18" bar on it. Even the biggest cedars on my properly are only 12" diameter.


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## Probablywillforget

You'd probably be happy with an 036/360 kit. 60cc saw that isn't too heavy.


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## TimTaylor

They make an ms250 kit now, I don't know what the quality is like but even the real Stihl 250 isn't a pro saw, so what about a 368 husky? The kit is good quality and the saw is a beast. Maybe a bit bigger than you need, but not that much.

Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L22 using Tapatalk


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## TimTaylor

Or 440 Stihl. I had problems with my kit but once it is sorted its a nice firewood saw


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## dswensen

TimTaylor said:


> They make an ms250 kit now, I don't know what the quality is like but even the real Stihl 250 isn't a pro saw, so what about a 368 husky? The kit is good quality and the saw is a beast. Maybe a bit bigger than you need, but not that much.
> 
> Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L22 using Tapatalk



I have not built a 250, but the reviews of that kit have been very mixed. Personally, I have built three kits, and the 360 kit was a good one to build. I really like the saw - time will tell if it has any durability. It's definitely not a Stihl quality-wise, but I definitely didn't pay Stihl prices either.


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## Bedford T

Second on the ms440 kit. Light to me. Powerful. You can upgrade the cylinder. Mine has a few small oem parts.


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## davhul

I've thought about another 440 kit also and get the 460 topend. But I still have another 660 kit sitting here in the box I need to assemble So maybe later. If you change your mind on a 660 it'll run a 36 ok. Phone died mid cut 
And 440 ran good also.


----------



## davhul

Here's a little Stihl 250.


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## Hydro74

I've have built a few farmertec ms250 the rotor for the recoil is junk they break over and over I put a oem Stihl one on em now no problems they actually run pretty well all considering. Built the 440 kit with big bore kit on it and got the squish down to .021 with no base gasket it pulls a 28" bar no problem


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## Bedford T

Hydro74 said:


> I've have built a few farmertec ms250 the rotor for the recoil is junk they break over and over I put a oem Stihl one on em now no problems they actually run pretty well all considering. Built the 440 kit with big bore kit on it and got the squish down to .021 with no base gasket it pulls a 28" bar no problem
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The rotor can be a weak point on the 660 as well. Oem now Everytime. I got a 250 kit I am ready to reassemble. I will grab a rotor now


----------



## Hydro74

The hyway rotors for the 660's seem to last longer than the farmertecs


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## JLwoodturning

I was pulling the factory oil seals out and accidentally put a couple nicks in the case on flywheel side. Before I put the new little oil seal in, would it be okay to put a little coating of Permatex copper on the outer seal edge? Or is there usually bad to do?


----------



## Bedford T

JLwoodturning said:


> I was pulling the factory oil seals out and accidentally put a couple nicks in the case on flywheel side. Before I put the new little oil seal in, would it be okay to put a little coating of Permatex copper on the outer seal edge? Or is there usually bad to do?


You should put some dirko or something similar along the outer edge


----------



## JLwoodturning

I have Permatex Ultra Copper Maximum Temp RTV Silicone Gasket Maker. Is that similar to Dirko?


----------



## Bedford T

JLwoodturning said:


> I have Permatex Ultra Copper Maximum Temp RTV Silicone Gasket Maker. Is that similar to Dirko?


?. Google is your buddy here on that aspect. I have never used your stuff. Sorry. Might be better. Just don't know.


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## JLwoodturning

cool no worries, thanks for the help


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## YajReizarb

Hey:

I'll start with a quick thanks to everyone who contributed valuable know-how and intel in this thread.

I had zero background working on small gas engines - but figured that assembling a saw would be a great way to learn, and I'd wind up with something I could put to use in a milling project that I stumbled into. Anyhow - I bought the kit, along with around a dozen OEM parts and got a few tanks through the saw before it went stone-cold dead on me. The compression was so low that the decomp valve stayed open when I tried to pull start it multiple times, and I heard a sound that sounded roughly like the jingling of keys coming from inside the engine.

When I got it out of the woods, I found that the compression had dropped from 150+ to ~60, and after pulling off the muffler I couldn't detect any scoring on the piston, the rings looked fine - etc. I should have conducted a pressure test at that point (doh!) but instead I pulled off the top end. The piston, rings, cylinder, etc all looked good - but I noticed that there was a *lot* of play in the rod, and that I could move the rod back and forth several mm at the junction of the crank and the rod. I don't remember being able to do that prior to assembling the saw, so it's starting to dawn on me that I probably fried the rod bearing. If that's the case (any input on that point would be welcomed) it looks like I'll be learning how to split the case, remove the crank bearings, etc. Short of the saw exploding - that seems like the most costly and labor-intensive failure to fix. I'd like to avoid a repeat of that failure - so could anyone recommend a replacement crank/rod assembly that's likely to be better than the one that came with the kit, but less expensive than OEM?

In the meantime I picked up an almost-new 661c that I'll re-sell as soon as I'm done with the milling project, so I'm not in a hurry to get the kit-saw going again, but I'd like to turn it into something more reliable than I wound up with after the first build, so I don't mind spending the money on decent parts.

Thanks in advance.

-Jay


----------



## Dieseldash

Sounds like the rod bearing failed. You'll need a new crank. Bummer. I thought I heard a report of someone else having a rod bearing fail on here.


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## TimTaylor

Yes I had that fun. 
I have learned a bit fixing it though. 
I don't blame Farmertec at all actually. I accept that I caused it and here is the reasoning. 
It was my first kit build.
I didn't check to see if the con rod was central to the bore and I'm sure it wasn't. 
I made mistakes measuring the squish and I tried to get it too small for the quality of the cylinder casting which is good but not perfect.
And I didn't run it in properly, remembering that the bearings need time to bed in and polish up because unlike expensive bearings that isn't done at manufacture.
With these things in mind my second crank is much older than the first and my trust in the saw is coming back, slowly

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## YajReizarb

Is there anything that you need to do to insure that the connecting rod is central to the bore other than making sure that the crank is centered? When I put mine together, the difference between the width of the crank and the opening in the case was ~70 thousandths, so I positioned the crank so that I had 35 thousandths on each side and called it good. Is there something else that I should have done there?

I went ahead and picked up an NWP crank - which was priced about 3X higher than the most inexpensive stuff on e-bay and 3X lower than OEM - so hopefully that'll translate into a normal working life.


----------



## TimTaylor

Just make sure that your cylinder mounts with the bore central. My big bore cylinder had the mounting holes drilled off center and I have heard of that being the case on other cylinders as well. I guess it was loading up the big end and coupled with the slightly strange combustion chamber shape and my too low squish just knocked it to death. You could see that it had gotten very hot before it failed and to it's credit the con rod didn't come to pieces, unlike a genuine Husqvarna I was given yesterday that had trashed the cases as well. 
It all makes for interesting coffee table paper weights

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## Johnnybar

YajReizarb said:


> Is there anything that you need to do to insure that the connecting rod is central to the bore other than making sure that the crank is centered? When I put mine together, the difference between the width of the crank and the opening in the case was ~70 thousandths, so I positioned the crank so that I had 35 thousandths on each side and called it good. Is there something else that I should have done there?
> 
> I went ahead and picked up an NWP crank - which was priced about 3X higher than the most inexpensive stuff on e-bay and 3X lower than OEM - so hopefully that'll translate into a normal working life.


Checking in with you guys after a long sabbatical and came across your troubles with the 660. What oil and ratio did you use and what tune and break-in process was used? Did you pre lube all bearings during assembly? My 100% Hutzl FarmerTec has ran fine for slab milling with 32:1 synthetic and a rich tune. I believe the first tank or two was 24:1 and short runs with plenty of idling in order to keep things extra cool the first day of milling.


----------



## davhul

Johnnybar said:


> Checking in with you guys after a long sabbatical and came across your troubles with the 660. What oil and ratio did you use and what tune and break-in process was used? Did you pre lube all bearings during assembly? My 100% Hutzl FarmerTec has ran fine for slab milling with 32:1 synthetic and a rich tune. I believe the first tank or two was 24:1 and short runs with plenty of idling in order to keep things extra cool the first day of milling.



I'm with you here on the extra oil. I personally run 32:1 all the time for the extra lube for the bearings and the chrome cylinder I also keep the tune around 12,5-12,8k. 
I had 3 I built to gave to friends and 2 in which cuts wood everyday and are a year old now. The other guy cuts only firewood but all 3 run a 32-36" bar. 
I don't want to jinx myself but their all running good and their happy so far and when I don't hear from them no news is good news. 

A rod bearing failure is easily determined by just seeing how much rotational movement the flywheel has with the piston not moving. I do feel the crank Assembly Is the weak point in the saw at what $13. I told my guys to atleast run 40:1 and hope they listen. 
Oh the guy that put cabers in I did the same thing then I took them out when I realized I had chrome cylinders. The rings are to hard for chrome. Hope you get it worked out.


----------



## TheTone

davhul said:


> I'm with you here on the extra oil. I personally run 32:1 all the time for the extra lube for the bearings and the chrome cylinder I also keep the tune around 12,5-12,8k.
> I had 3 I built to gave to friends and 2 in which cuts wood everyday and are a year old now. The other guy cuts only firewood but all 3 run a 32-36" bar.
> I don't want to jinx myself but their all running good and their happy so far and when I don't hear from them no news is good news.
> 
> A rod bearing failure is easily determined by just seeing how much rotational movement the flywheel has with the piston not moving. I do feel the crank Assembly Is the weak point in the saw at what $13. I told my guys to atleast run 40:1 and hope they listen.
> Oh the guy that put cabers in I did the same thing then I took them out when I realized I had chrome cylinders. The rings are to hard for chrome. Hope you get it worked out.



Were the Caber rings AI or AF? I get AI rings from the Greek guy, but I've seen Caber AF rings on other sites at a lower price. The AI rings are a bit softer.


----------



## davhul

How do you like them long term? I didnt look I heard there was different ones but didn't want to chance it. 
I actually like the softer rings and hope the saw lasts to wear them out.


----------



## TheTone

davhul said:


> How do you like them long term? I didnt look I heard there was different ones but didn't want to chance it.
> I actually like the softer rings and hope the saw lasts to wear them out.



Actually, I haven't been doing this long enough to comment on long term. I gathered from reading AS posts that AF rings are too hard for chrome cylinders. Someone posted that they thought the Chinese rings were like AF's, but I don't know for sure. I just always get the AI rings regardless (make sure your source gives you that info).


----------



## davhul

Thanks, I'll have to see if there's a mark on the rings to tell.


----------



## TheTone

I have not found markings on the rings themselves. Supposedly the Caber rings have a shorter slope at the pin that most others, but I don't know how to tell AI from AF. I'm trusting the seller.


----------



## davhul

This is some Fault Analysis info that might help someone determine what caused a failure. File was to large hope the zip works


----------



## galvprobigd

It was the coil keeping me from running consistently. Pressure and vacuum tested it again and came back good. Checked the metering lever and it was off ever so slightly. Still nothing. Replaced the coil and gapped it to .025+ and it runs and starts like I would expect it too.


----------



## hacksaw11111

paul99 said:


> It turns out the clutch bearing was not at fault in my case after all as the oem bearing didn't improve things - the drum was still too tight on the bearing / shaft. An oem drum would have been the easiest, quickest option but I chose to lap / polish the bore of the supplied drum with a very simple turned wooden mandrel wrapped in wet & dry. It was a slow process making sure not to enlarge the bore any more than necessary but I'm happy to report it worked great leaving a finish far better than any oem drum I've seen.
> 
> With the M6 muffler bolts added it was time to see if it would start. I was expecting a wrestling match but it popped on 4th pull with choke and fired next pull on hi idle - no carb adjustments needed to have it run rich where it will remain for the first few tanks.
> 
> So far I'm certainly very impressed by how well it runs just as a stock saw. So much so that the plan to improve the squish and spend time polishing the ports etc having confirmed its a runner, have for now, been shelved - to be revisited when I have more free time.


H, Im having the same issue. What did you use to sand this, a drill press or just a dowel by hand? thx


----------



## paul99

hacksaw11111 said:


> H, Im having the same issue. What did you use to sand this, a drill press or just a dowel by hand? thx


I put the dowel in the drill press with the drill speed as fast as it would go. I held the clutch drum to the table by hand allowing just enough side to side movement for the thing to self centre and worked the quill up and down to slowly ease / hone the inner diameter until it would slide over the bearing as they normally should. I allowed the drum to rotate very slowly in my hand each time I lowered the quill to help with keeping the bore straight and centered. I've made it sound far more complicated than it actually was TBH you'll soon work it out - mine was liteterally only a few thousands too tight and was done in less time than it's taken me to type this.


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## hacksaw11111

weimedog said:


> Have my 56mm version thrown in with a couple of essentially stock Jonsered "Hobby" saws with similar cylinder designs but you might get a sense of where they sit on the saw stack. Again these saws were not modified much and the AM 660 was just bolted together.
> 
> 
> 
> I've run mine for over a year, the 56mm version actually quite a bit...it's strong enough to get your attention but not earth shattering. For the price there isn't anything in the same league new or used which is how it should be evaluated. LOL You can get a kit for the price of those special letters at the end of your saws .. AND its something actually accomplished by you when you are done. As these folks here are learning its not a paint by the numbers type of a project, but at the end a LOT of things will be learned and understood relative to saw repair AND a very functional 90cc class saw will be ready to do real work. These type deals can open up an entire new dimension to the saw hobby....hands on learning with little risk as they are cheap.
> 
> A 36 dollar free shipping 56mm top end...same as mine. Free port issue and everything.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/BIG-BORE-56...376805?hash=item51caa846e5:g:9pwAAOxyLN9SjLz2




Hi - How much freeport does you saw have? as much as this?


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## weimedog

hacksaw11111 said:


> Hi - How much freeport does you saw have? as much as this?
> View attachment 641451
> View attachment 641452



I built all mine with the gasket, most of mine had free port around .010


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## snake_2586

Here's a question for you all, I built one of these late last year, and have been using it for milling on and off, I don't know how many tanks of fuel it has had through it, but it is safe to say it is run in. 
when I was using it yesterday it had just finished its second tank of fuel of the morning half way through a cut, (you know you can tell when they are running low on fuel, so rather than let it stall I killed it like normal), filled it up again and it refused to start.
I gave up and put it back in the shed, I went out to it this afternoon, like normal one pull on choke it popped, knock the choke off another two pulls and it roars back to life.

Can anyone enlighten me as to why the hell it is doing this? so I can save some frustration.


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## Bedford T

snake_2586 said:


> Here's a question for you all, I built one of these late last year, and have been using it for milling on and off, I don't know how many tanks of fuel it has had through it, but it is safe to say it is run in.
> when I was using it yesterday it had just finished its second tank of fuel of the morning half way through a cut, (you know you can tell when they are running low on fuel, so rather than let it stall I killed it like normal), filled it up again and it refused to start.
> I gave up and put it back in the shed, I went out to it this afternoon, like normal one pull on choke it popped, knock the choke off another two pulls and it roars back to life.
> 
> Can anyone enlighten me as to why the hell it is doing this? so I can save some frustration.


Never let it go lean. Stop and fill your tank up. It was likely dry and if you had kept pulling on it it would have flooded. You use a oem hose if you are not they are more flexible than the supplied one.

chainsaw kits and packing lists
http://thechainsawkitguy.com
http://YouTube.com/c/the1chainsawguy


----------



## MG porting

snake_2586 said:


> Here's a question for you all, I built one of these late last year, and have been using it for milling on and off, I don't know how many tanks of fuel it has had through it, but it is safe to say it is run in.
> when I was using it yesterday it had just finished its second tank of fuel of the morning half way through a cut, (you know you can tell when they are running low on fuel, so rather than let it stall I killed it like normal), filled it up again and it refused to start.
> I gave up and put it back in the shed, I went out to it this afternoon, like normal one pull on choke it popped, knock the choke off another two pulls and it roars back to life.
> 
> Can anyone enlighten me as to why the hell it is doing this? so I can save some frustration.


Follow as Bedford T seed but run it again and if it does it again it could be a bad coil they get hot and if it's on it's way out that's what will happen.


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## snake_2586

Thanks for the responses, it does it when hot, does not matter if it is empty or not, I know what a flooded engine is like and that is not the problem.
The coil sound like a good candidate, I swapped the plug to see if made a difference and it did not, but turning to over with the plug out and it is only giving a dull orange spark, not a bright blue one like I would like to see, (must try it when cold).


----------



## MG porting

snake_2586 said:


> Thanks for the responses, it does it when hot, does not matter if it is empty or not, I know what a flooded engine is like and that is not the problem.
> The coil sound like a good candidate, I swapped the plug to see if made a difference and it did not, but turning to over with the plug out and it is only giving a dull orange spark, not a bright blue one like I would like to see, (must try it when cold).


Yep most likely coil or a bad coil wire.


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## ssm1699

Well after reading all the pages, I ordered the kit on 8/6. It is currently in NY being processed by Customs. We will see how it goes when it finally gets here. I have wanted one, but never needed one. Well I needed a saw that is more than my MS390. The 390 pulled the 25" B&C Full Skip that I put on it, but complained a little. I know that I will have some more fairly big stuff to drop, coming up. So this will fit the bill for me.


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## Bedford T

Welcome, and you should have great fun. The info in this thread is way out of date. You will be looking at things that have been corrected.


ssm1699 said:


> Well after reading all the pages, I ordered the kit on 8/6. It is currently in NY being processed by Customs. We will see how it goes when it finally gets here. I have wanted one, but never needed one. Well I needed a saw that is more than my MS390. The 390 pulled the 25" B&C Full Skip that I put on it, but complained a little. I know that I will have some more fairly big stuff to drop, coming up. So this will fit the bill for me.



chainsaw kits and packing lists
http://thechainsawkitguy.com
http://YouTube.com/c/the1chainsawguy


----------



## snake_2586

Yeah it is a fairly easy build, most of the issues raised here had been solved on my kit, I would like to say mine is near stock but it seems to keep having genuine bits swapped in.

Second tank of fuel the decomp value fell apart - so is now genuine.
Fuel cap leaked - now genuine.
As mentioned couple posts earlier, would not start when hot - now genuine.

Not an issue but as I built this for milling, I have also fitted the hiflow oil pump.

*I would advise getting a genuine decomp to start with, as this could ruin your day, if it drops in to the cylinder *


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## ssm1699

Sounds good. I haven't ordered anything other than the kit as I wanted to see what was missing. How have the aftermarket carbs been on these? Are they still hit or miss for reliability and idling?


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## ssm1699

I do also realize that this post is kind of out dated, but I wanted to see the evolution of these kits in order to see almost anything and everything that people have been finding with them. I love figuring things out and troubleshooting things.


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## snake_2586

I'm running the kits own carb with no issues, only thing I have changed are what I listed earlier.
my kit was missing the bracket that clamps the carb in place and the air filter mounts to, but they sent it on after an email saying it was missing.

I made a request on here asking for an IPL and workshop Manuel in the requests section, that pointed me in the right direction with some of the set up.


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## X 66 Stang347 X

.


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## Bedford T

snake_2586 said:


> I'm running the kits own carb with no issues, only thing I have changed are what I listed earlier.
> my kit was missing the bracket that clamps the carb in place and the air filter mounts to, but they sent it on after an email saying it was missing.
> 
> I made a request on here asking for an IPL and workshop Manuel in the requests section, that pointed me in the right direction with some of the set up.


The request section is helpful, we also can help with info too.


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## snake_2586

Bedford T said:


> The request section is helpful, we also can help with info too.



That is what I was trying to say, if it did not read that way.
When I built mine, I made the request for the books in the request section.

That is one of the great things about this forum, you make a request and some one will jump in and help


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## 67L36Driver

Tune and brake in underway.





My third 066/660 built.

OEM parts used:
Decomp valve
Fuel & oil caps
Oil pickup hose 
Bar adjuster gear & screw

Piston crown clearance at .035”, gasket delete.

Only real complaint is fast idle don’t work on crappy switch shaft. Zip tie is field expedient.

Built for client intending to mill.


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## Johnnybar

Huztl put stihl case splitters on sale for $22.50...best price in a long time iirc.


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## Jeffrey697

First time Huztl 660 builder here looking for help. I completed my build this morning and tried to get her started. Got nothing, it won't even pop with the choke on. Pulled the air filter and she is getting fuel. Pulled plug and have good spark. Pulled flywheel and woodruff key is good. Gapped the ignition coil and flywheel per the service manual specs. The kit carb is adjusted 1 full turn out from seated each for HI and LO. It passed pressure and vac tests during the build. I even tried starting it in fast idle mode (which I don't have, had to use zip tie to hold throttle open. Looks like OEM trigger assembly in my future.) Pulled so many times in fast idle flooded her out to the point fuel was leaking out of the muffler. Any ideas?


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## X 66 Stang347 X

Sounds like you’ve checked over everything pretty good. 
On one of mine the inlet needle in the carb wouldn’t seal and would flood the saw just sitting there. 
Since you have a pressure tester put it on the carb and see if it’ll hold. 
You’ll definitely need to dry the saw out since it’s flooded and dripping out the muffler. A Stihl will flood even one pull to many on choke. 
So it’s not that hard to flood anyway.


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## ssm1699

Well, my progress is slow. Just got the new crank seals on nd to the proper depth. The first set of new seals, destroyed the flywheel side and set the clutch to deep. It ws so deep that i couldn't turn the crank without the clutch or flywheel on. I am going to use the metal base gasket that came with my Hyway gasket set. It is .0195" and the kit base gasket averages .021". I m hoping to get the piston and cylinder on tonight. The slow part has been waiting on gaskets and seals. I did clearance the ring ends and have them at .007". Everything is going slow, but when you have to work on it in the evenings snd work on a pos mountaineer that is your wifes daily, it is a slow process. Hoping I can get things in high gear now. The wifes vehicle is on the back burner with the rain we are getting right now. Have already gotten over 2" in 24hrs. That is almost more than we have gotten all summer.

Sent from my LGUS992 using Tapatalk


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## X 66 Stang347 X

Once you get the bottom end right it’ll slam together quick after that. 
What’s up with the mountaineer? 4.0 or 4.6


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## ssm1699

4.0. Where do I start with what I have done to it in the 4yrs that we have owned it. I have put 4 thermostat housings in, a radiator and the replacement has started to leak. Have replaced front wheel bearing assemblies twice per side. Front drive shaft when I did a diff housing bearing for the front driver side cv shaft. Alternator and battery. Front brakes. Harmonic balancer and the original failed on the day before christmas eve day. Front blower motor just went out. Two full sets of tires, since it is all wheel drive and you can't just replace 2 tires. The newest issue we hve is we are getting a wrench in the information center and the traction control light is going on and off. My scan tools can't pull those codes, so got it checked and the front left speed sensor has a fault. This pos has left us stranded, at the minimum, 4 different times. This is my first and last ford I will own. We have only put 55k miles on it, in the 4yrs we have owned it. It has 159k miles on it and is the biggest pos I have ever owned. I have had less troubles and worked on the gm products that i have owned, less thn this thing. And have put more miles on them. Definitely hate this vehicle and want to blow it up. It is also the biggest gas guzzler. It gets worse mileage than my parents 03 envoy with the 4.2 straight 6. The envoy is the xl, so it is heavier than our mountaineer.


X 66 Stang347 X said:


> Once you get the bottom end right it’ll slam together quick after that.
> What’s up with the mountaineer? 4.0 or 4.6



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## ssm1699

Also forgot, had to do all the ball joints in the front as well.

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## X 66 Stang347 X

Damn dude that’s terrible. I have one thats a 08’ 4.0 2x4 as a second vehicle bought new. 
In the 10 yrs and 155k I’ve had it I’ve done one thermo housing replaced with a gates. 
Front wheel bearings replaced with timken. One radiator and bypassed the trans cooler in radiator and added another external cooler. 
I change the trans fluid every 30k and rear end 60k. 

Don’t get a enclave or that chassis. 
I’ve done more to my moms 2013.


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## ssm1699

X 66 Stang347 X said:


> Damn dude that’s terrible. I have one thats a 08’ 4.0 2x4 as a second vehicle bought new.
> In the 10 yrs and 155k I’ve had it I’ve done one thermo housing replaced with a gates.
> Front wheel bearings replaced with timken. One radiator and bypassed the trans cooler in radiator and added another external cooler.
> I change the trans fluid every 30k and rear end 60k.
> 
> Don’t get a enclave or that chassis.
> I’ve done more to my moms 2013.


Yah, this is an 06. The "diff housing bearing" that I pulled, had about .060" of play around the cv shaft and was a hard plastic. Not even an actual bearing. We are looking at envoys and the wife likes the acadia. I personally would rather put her in a tahoe or yukon, but those are to big for her liking. If I really could have my way, she would be in a square body suburban. But got told hell no to that. Lol. One can wish.

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## X 66 Stang347 X

Yeah our next suv will be a 1/2 ton chassis. The others don’t seem to last anymore. 
I’m getting a 3/4 or 1 ton truck my self.


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## ssm1699

X 66 Stang347 X said:


> Yeah our next suv will be a 1/2 ton chassis. The others don’t seem to last anymore.
> I’m getting a 3/4 or 1 ton truck my self.



I have the wife's Mountaineer fixed, hopefully. I replaced the ABS sensor and cleared the codes. No lights have come on and it hasn't done it's thing where it acts like it is binding. We are seriously looking at getting something different for her. We are really tired of the troubles this thing has been giving us. I already have the 3/4 ton truck. I just need to work on it and get it back into shape. But it is a work in progress since it is a square body chevy. My daily is a 96 s10 2wd with a 4 cylinder and a 5 speed. Love driving it.


----------



## uprangewilly

Jeffrey697 said:


> First time Huztl 660 builder here looking for help. I completed my build this morning and tried to get her started. Got nothing, it won't even pop with the choke on. Pulled the air filter and she is getting fuel. Pulled plug and have good spark. Pulled flywheel and woodruff key is good. Gapped the ignition coil and flywheel per the service manual specs. The kit carb is adjusted 1 full turn out from seated each for HI and LO. It passed pressure and vac tests during the build. I even tried starting it in fast idle mode (which I don't have, had to use zip tie to hold throttle open. Looks like OEM trigger assembly in my future.) Pulled so many times in fast idle flooded her out to the point fuel was leaking out of the muffler. Any ideas?



Sounds exactly like what mine was doing. I also had what appeared to be a good spark, then it just stopped producing any spark. I suggest a new coil, worked for mine. Hope this helps.


----------



## Bedford T

You can test the coil, lay the plug on a chain draped across and onto the ground and see what happens with spark. Could be more than one thing. Take steps to eliminate issues. I don't like the carbs when you can get a walbro for 40$.

If pouring a little fuel in it and it not trying to start you need to go all the way back and retest, tank, vent, cylinder, pressure and vacuum. The cylinder not being tight will drive you crazy

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https://www.youtube.com/the1chainsawguy


----------



## snake_2586

I got fed up with not having a fast idle the other day, and a bit of spare time, so striped it down a bit and had a good look.
First I wondered if it was flexing and not holding the throttle, as it would just slip off the notch, so I drilled out the centre of the bar/tube and glued a steel rod in the centre. (that made no difference)
Next, when looking I thought maybe push it back towards the handle, so had a look at what I had about and came up with some aluminium tap, I cut a thin strip and raped it around the bar where it contacts the casing, think it took maybe 3 times around to the required thickness, and now it catches in the throttle linkage and holds, so I have my fast idle .

Sorry forgot to take pics, but I hope this makes scene and may help some out.


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## rich450es

Pictures would have been awesome....


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## p575

I've just put together a Farmertec 660 clone. Thanks for all the help that's here. I started it yesterday and it runs, still need to get it tuned up and fix a few odds and ends before its finished. 

The decomp that was with it seems to be leaking by really badly. I think it's junk. I put a pipe plug in it just to get it to run a bit. Are decomps supposed to get teflon tape or some kind of sealant on the threads?

I also have a few parts left, can anyone identify them? I think one of them goes over the throttle rod where it comes out of the handle, it already had one of those installed. I think the one to the left of the two large circles goes around the decomp, I was having trouble with that one, is it necessary for the cooling system or can it stay off? The two large circles seem like they would go on the fuel and oil caps, but each of those already had an o-ring installed. Any hints on any of it would be appreciated...


----------



## Deleted member 135597

p575 said:


> I've just put together a Farmertec 660 clone. Thanks for all the help that's here. I started it yesterday and it runs, still need to get it tuned up and fix a few odds and ends before its finished.
> 
> The decomp that was with it seems to be leaking by really badly. I think it's junk. I put a pipe plug in it just to get it to run a bit. Are decomps supposed to get teflon tape or some kind of sealant on the threads?
> 
> I also have a few parts left, can anyone identify them? I think one of them goes over the throttle rod where it comes out of the handle, it already had one of those installed. I think the one to the left of the two large circles goes around the decomp, I was having trouble with that one, is it necessary for the cooling system or can it stay off? The two large circles seem like they would go on the fuel and oil caps, but each of those already had an o-ring installed. Any hints on any of it would be appreciated...


First pic Top left is throttle rod boot, bottom left is decomp valve grommet, middle top is grommet for wiring harness thru case, two large seals are for oil fuel caps, right top I don’t know


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## Deleted member 135597

2nd pic those brass grommets could be for top cover and brake handle, o ring could be for chain adjuster, the other two I don’t know. I have an IPL for the 660 if you don’t have it


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## Deleted member 135597

https://www.arboristsite.com/community/attachments/ms660-ipl-pdf.686725/


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## Bedford T

p575 said:


> I've just put together a Farmertec 660 clone. Thanks for all the help that's here. I started it yesterday and it runs, still need to get it tuned up and fix a few odds and ends before its finished.
> 
> The decomp that was with it seems to be leaking by really badly. I think it's junk. I put a pipe plug in it just to get it to run a bit. Are decomps supposed to get teflon tape or some kind of sealant on the threads?
> 
> I also have a few parts left, can anyone identify them? I think one of them goes over the throttle rod where it comes out of the handle, it already had one of those installed. I think the one to the left of the two large circles goes around the decomp, I was having trouble with that one, is it necessary for the cooling system or can it stay off? The two large circles seem like they would go on the fuel and oil caps, but each of those already had an o-ring installed. Any hints on any of it would be appreciated...


The numb goes under your top cover, it's s support, sticks on a post. The decomp is junk. It is so inconvenient to use. It trips to often. With a good one it does not do that. They do leak. i remove mine to pressure test the saw 

http://thechainsawkitguy.com
https://www.youtube.com/the1chainsawguy


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## stihl_lyfe

Resurrecting this thread as hopefully theres some still subscribed that can help me out, am looking for advise on how to reset the Hutzl carb to factory settings... But first the back story

So I bought a MS660 kit, showed up mostly intact and for the few bolts/nuts not included Hutzl sent me the replacements free of charge. Installed OEM wrist pin, piston bearing and decomp. Finally got it together this w/e and much to my amazement/excitement it fired right up after 4-5 pulls, let it idle and blipped the throttled a bit and let it do a couple of heat cycles before I put it to bed last night. 

Got up this morning and it started right up again and felt strong, warmed er up and then thought Id play with the carb, low speed screw seemed about right but I did move it a bit, then went to do the fast screw with the tach and it was pulling just above 10k, went a bit leaner and then it died on me and refused to restart. Since I never did a leak test thought Id use as an opportunity to pressurise and found that the base gasket had let go (or was never sealed in the first place). I actually bought another (hutzl) gasket set and thats the one I used originally which was metal, so this time used the paper gasket that came with the kit. Buttoned everything back up and case now holds 10psi. Only thing is damn thing still wont fire, and it seems pig rich - only kick I get every 15 pulls is a flame burp out of the exhaust and plug looks very wet.

SO, am now wondering if I pushed the carb into no-mans land settings, but not sure how to 'start again' on these carbs. Or something else has gone bad... Spent many hrs this avo trying to make it go and wondering whether I should replace the carb with the Walbro one I see referenced a bit, but part of me also feels like this might be throwing good money after bad and I should find a 2nd hand OEM saw and use this thing for parts... Probably just the frustration talking, was having lotsa fun until it damn-well died


----------



## Mattyo

Needle in carb stuck open? Had that happen on my kit. 

Turn the saw upside down...with the plug removed and pull the starter cord slowly and see how much fuel comes ouf


----------



## X 66 Stang347 X

My carb wouldn’t hold inlet pressure even with a new needle installed. You can set your carb setting at 1 turn on both and fine tune from there if it’s a good carb. 
The transfers on the cylinder was hitting the saw when mine was bolted down. Just grind some clearance if they are.
Check your flywheel nut and key. Seen some kits shear the key. With the fitment or nut not tight enough was why on a couple.


----------



## stihl_lyfe

OK thanks, some stuff to try. Seems to be plenty of spark, and should've said all looked well inside when I pulled and reinstalled the cylinder. Re setting up the carb, screw H and L clockwise all the way and then back one turn?


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## X 66 Stang347 X

stihl_lyfe said:


> OK thanks, some stuff to try. Seems to be plenty of spark, and should've said all looked well inside when I pulled and reinstalled the cylinder. Re setting up the carb, screw H and L clockwise all the way and then back one turn?



Yes clockwise til lightly seated. Their easily flooded. And have to be pulled hard to start. Some use the decomp valve but it fires faster without for me.


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## a. palmer jr.

Get a spare spark plug and try it again, sounds like you flooded it.


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## stihl_lyfe

It's possible I just failed to start due to flooding I suppose, was pulling the plug and turning over to clear etc and was just filling back up with gas without kicking though.

Whats the starting protocol for these anyway? For my OE 361 I go full choke for 3-4 pulls til it fires then to no choke for another 4-5 pulls and it fires up without fail summer or winter. Is about 10C here at the moment. Was applying the same to the hutzl which also started it first few times, though no deal after I messed with carb/it died at high rpm.


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## X 66 Stang347 X

Same start procedure as your 361. 
Your high idle position may not be working which would cause it hard to start. 
If you don’t have a way to pressurize the inlet needle I would still suspect that. On mine I could see the fuel flowing in the carb when looking in at the brass check valve.


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## X 66 Stang347 X

Old vid of mine doing some noodling with a 25”


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## a. palmer jr.

One way is to empty the gas tank, that will keep any fresh fuel from entering the combustion chamber when you crank on it...


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## stihl_lyfe

So an update - the saw runs! I made the carb screw adjustments and tried to start it again today no choke and it fired but sheared the woodruff key in the process. Went out at lunchtime to track down another key and yanked the starter and fired up on first pull (again no choke). Ran it a bit and will let it cool down before re-tightening the cylinder bolts - when I ripped it down after finding the leak last time these did not take much to undo so figure (hoping) things relaxed a bit due to the heat cycling.

Will keep yall updated, I suppose this was two problems on top of each other (blown base gasket and then flooding) which made the basic problem seem more desperate than it was. Also pasted below the fancy muffler I made for this thing, factory baffle drilled out a bit and a droopy stainless pipe added (square of perforated stainless also tacked to inside as screen).


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## Brownthumb

I like blue colored saws over the orange ones.
They appear to have fixed most of the problems. This one the only thing I swapped was the decomp valve.
Cylinder timing stock with gasket is.
20 squish
ex 94 deg
Trans 125 deg
Intake 84 deg
Thinking going to 117 on transfers and leave the rest alone.
I don’t watch Bedfords vids either just his voice gets on my nerves.
Any input


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## MustangMike

I would either leave the transfer alone, or not go numerically under 120, but I do like to add bridge ports.

IMO, if you raise the transfer that much you reduce velocity too much. I would leave it where it is.

The longer stroke 660 (compared to 440/460) seem to like higher Ex and lower In, your #s are fine. Widen both ports to I .050 of the skirts and leave a shallow arch with good bevels and it will run very well. I usually advance the timing .030 of the key on these.


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## Brownthumb

Thanks Mike, I read all of your posts on the 440 460 hybrid and built one but caught a ring and she squealed like a pig and came to a dead stop. 
I chucked the ported 440 head that gave me all sorts of problems back on and she runs great.
The timing advance must have straightened her out.
Back to the 660. I raised the transfers to 120 put some bridges in, widened the ex. Cleaned up the intake a little.
Honestly how bad of a job did I do? I do know of one screw up.


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## MustangMike

Looks good to me, tell us how it runs!


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## Brownthumb

MustangMike said:


> Looks good to me, tell us how it runs!


She runs real good but I need some bigger wood.
Noodled some logs with it and was impressed.
100% farmertec right down to the bar and chain except the on off choke rod has a harbor freight small funnel end wrapped around the shaft to make the high idle work.
180 compression and she wants to tear my arm off?


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## MustangMike

Good deal! Pics of the high idle mod???


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## Brownthumb

MustangMike said:


> Good deal! Pics of the high idle mod???


No problem. I had another kit sitting here waiting for my kid to build.
I ran out of funnel tho so it’s a little short.


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## X 66 Stang347 X

Looks good! It’ll probably get stronger once broken in. Mine seemed like it did. It ran good with a 25”


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## Brownthumb

X 66 Stang347 X said:


> Looks good! It’ll probably get stronger once broken in. Mine seemed like it did. It ran good with a 25”



What size bar so we can compare


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## X 66 Stang347 X

Brownthumb said:


> What size bar so we can compare



It’s got a 25” on it. 
Noticed the chain was dry when the log rolled. The oil pump quit working. 

And a 36”


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## Brownthumb

I dident see you got a 25 on her same as me. 
I see some noodles pretty soon.


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## X 66 Stang347 X

For noodling I wish it had the west Coast bar cover on it. 
Since it has a chrome cylinder I run 32:1 in it


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## X 66 Stang347 X

Did you open up the windows on the piston any?


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## Brownthumb

X 66 Stang347 X said:


> Did you open up the windows on the piston any?


No I dident. I was scratching my head if it would even run when I got done with her.


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## X 66 Stang347 X

Brownthumb said:


> No I dident. I was scratching my head if it would even run when I got done with her.



I opened mine up a good bit and tapered from the inside out. May even lighten up the piston some. 
I used a oem wrist pin. It’s considerably lighter


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## ssm1699

Ok, so I just put the walbro 74 jet in my carb. What is the rough settings everyone is using to set their saws for tuning???

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk


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## Bedford T

ssm1699 said:


> Ok, so I just put the walbro 74 jet in my carb. What is the rough settings everyone is using to set their saws for tuning???
> 
> Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk


Close, open one turn out. H/L

http://thechainsawkitguy.com

https://youtube.com/the1chainsawguy


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## ssm1699

Sounds good. Just figured I would double check, since it will definitely be richer now.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk


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## arto_wa

Good news:

The Farmertec MS660 kit I bought in December came with size 74 carburetor jet already installed!

I removed the jet to check it out and it is the same diameter as my .0225" wire drill shank.


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## Olblacky

Those of you using the locktite 518 to seal the case and cylinder do you use the locktite primer called out in the instructions? I know silly me read the instructions. Just want to get this right.


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## MustangMike

I use Loctite on the bolts, nothing on the gasket (I leave it dry), don't use any primer.


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## BTarb24

I've built 3 of these 660s so far and done two rebuilds. (one rebuild described below, other was due to a seized crank bearing due to using 50:1 .. switched to 25:1 and have been fine since)

Loctite is a must .. on the first one I built I didn't use loctite on any bolt that already had a dab of blue from the factory. I even torqued the head down with a torque wrench and it still rattled loose after about 20 hours and caused the piston skirt to break and chew itself to pieces. On the other 2 and the subsequent rebuilds I used a liberal amount of red loctite and haven't had a problem.

On my first three builds I used 3bond on both sides of the crank gasket and the piston gasket. They sealed great .. but were a huge pain when i later had to rebuild them. It took about an hour for each case with a razer blade to clean things up. Very delicate work to avoid gouging the soft case material. On my two rebuilds I went with just the bare gaskets. Compression test results for all 5 builds have been consistently around 130psi so i don't think there's any benefit to the gasket sealer.

However, a couple of them leak bar oil while sitting on a shelf. I know on a couple of builds i used 3bond around the oil pickup line's seat in the crankcase and some a couple i didn't .. unsure if there's a correlation to the extra sealer and the leaks or not. Might also be worth mentioning that i forego real bar oil and go with used motor oil instead. The thinner weight may make it easier for it to leak.


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## Bedford T

These are available on eBay for use with your Dremel. Hylomar Blue (dirko for cylinder)has been used by Stihl and Rolls-Royce and other companies for years to enhance the gasket. I've never had a case gasket leak. (And to remove one it just requires a little patience and one or two of those little wheels and it comes right off and it does not remove any of the magnesium. The large one is great for bottom of cylinder or a green pad. Cylinder w/ .5mm gasket torque is 15nm. I have learned it's best to apply 243 to the head screws after you have heat conditioned your engine. The cylinder bolts frequently loosen during that initial break in period.

















the1chainsawguy


Welcome, let's talk chainsaw type stuff. I like to build them. I bet you would too, and I would like to give you the opportunity to see and share in the experience and see if you might like it as well. I find it an interesting journey and a lot of fun at the end. An interesting aspect is the kits




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the1chainsawguy


This channel is committed to sharing the greatest hobby of all time chainsaw maintenance with a liberal dose of other Stihl 2 cycle products covered. For the...




youtube.com


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## Olblacky

Thanks guys I'm new here and new to building a saw. Been wrenching on my farm stuff for years. First time building a kit tho. I'm to page 130 taking notes once the rest of my parts are here hopefully this will be a smooth build.


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## Bedford T

Olblacky said:


> Thanks guys I'm new here and new to building a saw. Been wrenching on my farm stuff for years. First time building a kit tho. I'm to page 130 taking notes once the rest of my parts are here hopefully this will be a smooth build.


You might want to pick carefully through what you read. Farmertec fixed some of the stuff









the1chainsawguy


Welcome, let's talk chainsaw type stuff. I like to build them. I bet you would too, and I would like to give you the opportunity to see and share in the experience and see if you might like it as well. I find it an interesting journey and a lot of fun at the end. An interesting aspect is the kits




thechainsawkitguy.com













the1chainsawguy


This channel is committed to sharing the greatest hobby of all time chainsaw maintenance with a liberal dose of other Stihl 2 cycle products covered. For the...




youtube.com


----------



## BTarb24

I got one of the first kits on the forum and my latest was a blue one last year. So far I've been fine without having to buy any oem replacement components. The only hutzl part that frustrated me was the carb.. they can be a pain to tune but they all eventually feel into line.


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## MustangMike

I don't use used oil any more … not worth replacing bars prematurely and bar oil is cheap (TS for $6/gal).

There is an oil pressure valve that can leak under the bar protector. Can reset it with a pick. If they saws get hot (in the truck) oil will leak. Even my brand new OEM Stihl saws leak oil if they are full and get hot.


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## bigG

trboxman said:


> Well, $98.89...so call it $100. Total for the kit and shipping is $240.88


I bought one on Amazon a while back for $260 that was assembled with bar, chain and handle. Just had to attach handle, bar and chain. That sucker flies every bit as good as my neighbors Stihl 066.


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## Olblacky

Almost got my saw together today. Did it at the house instead of the shop so I didn't have a 13mm deep socket to tighten the decompression. 

Don't eat me  I haven't mastered searching for this one so I'll ask. Got a spare part where's it go?


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## Olblacky

I'm not great at sharing things. But I took a couple pics of the tools I made to pull the crank in. The PTO side worked but I shoulda put a lil more care into it that hole in the all thread is bad crooked and it's essentially Matt's design. The flywheel side I did a little different and a welded it but I don't think I woulda had too. I used a steel 1/4" npt pipe coupling and screwed a piece of 1/2" allthread into in 2.5 turns before it bound up. Then on the other end I screwed in a 1/8 x 1/4 npt brass bushing. Per the recommendation here that m10*1.0 is close to 1/8npt I got 4 turns on before it bound up. And its brass so it didn't hurt my crank.


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## atpchas

Olblacky said:


> Almost got my saw together today. Did it at the house instead of the shop so I didn't have a 13mm deep socket to tighten the decompression.
> 
> Don't eat me  I haven't mastered searching for this one so I'll ask. Got a spare part where's it go?
> View attachment 847499
> View attachment 847500


Looks like it might be part #29 on this IPL page:


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## Olblacky

I purchased a hlsupply kit on a deal of the day awhile back after reading some of this forum. Then I did more reading. Lol Then I ordered some OEM parts. OEM parts I bought and would I do it again. 
1122-007-1053 gasket kit $39 yes
9512-003-3281 wrist pin bearing $22 YES
1122 034 1500 Piston pin Piston wrist pin $10 backordered put it together with hlsupply pin
9463 650 1200 Snap ring 12x1 Wrist clips .29 Yes I ordered 4 and didn't loose any lol
1122-141-2201 intake manifold rubber $48 probably not
1128 020 9400 Decompression valve $15 yes
1127 141 8600 Impulse hose $12 maybe
1120 036 8500 1 Woodruff key 2x3.7 $2 maybe. I ordered 3 in case I shear one or wanna attempt to adjust timing
0000 963 0808 3gromet brass for cylinder cover $2 no didn't need


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## BTarb24

I've forgotten to install that piece on one of mine and I can't tell the difference. I wouldn't bother taking it apart to install it.


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## Olblacky

atpchas said:


> Looks like it might be part #29 on this IPL page:
> View attachment 847502
> View attachment 847502


Good catch atpchas not sure how I missed that. Wonder how much I'm going to hate myself trying to get that in there now. Two steps forward 2.1 back


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## Olblacky

I may wait to take it apart to put that piece on until I find out I messed up something else lol


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## Olblacky

As others have said it started on the 4th pull. Let it idle and fast idle a minute. Now we wait for a bar to get here. I may have to let it idle a few more times until then just to listen to it run! Man this thing sounds mean and I haven't even done any mods to it!! Yet hehe


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## jaggedscars

Good evening!

Previously build two of these kits and at that time (2016-2017) there was chain brake issues. Just purchased another kit this last week. Have they resolved the chain brake issue or should I still order an OEM handle and/or linkage?

Thanks,
Jagg


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## arto_wa

jaggedscars said:


> .........zip.........Previously build two of these kits and at that time (2016-2017) there was chain brake issues. Just purchased another kit this last week. Have they resolved the chain brake issue or should I still order an OEM handle and/or linkage?
> 
> Thanks,
> Jagg



My MS660 kit was delivered in December 2019 and I replaced the brake lever couple of months ago with OEM part 1128 160 5000 which corrected the issue of brake handle coming too close to the exhaust muffler.


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## jaggedscars

arto_wa said:


> My MS660 kit was delivered in December 2019 and I replaced the brake lever couple of months ago with OEM part 1128 160 5000 which corrected the issue of brake handle coming too close to the exhaust muffler.
> 
> View attachment 857001


Thanks for confirming! Excited to build one of these kits for me this time versus selling.


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## Bedford T

arto_wa said:


> My MS660 kit was delivered in December 2019 and I replaced the brake lever couple of months ago with OEM part 1128 160 5000 which corrected the issue of brake handle coming too close to the exhaust muffler.
> 
> View attachment 857001


There are two brake handles. One slopes making room for wrap handle and it's just off the muffler. The kits contained the one for the wrap handle from day one. Now no telling. The lever you speak of does not, did not have anything to do with the position of the brake handle relating to muffler. I think they put the wrong lever in the kit and that is why that lever got replaced. The threads are so long people get confused.









the1chainsawguy


Welcome, let's talk chainsaw type stuff. I like to build them. I bet you would too, and I would like to give you the opportunity to see and share in the experience and see if you might like it as well. I find it an interesting journey and a lot of fun at the end. An interesting aspect is the kits




thechainsawkitguy.com













the1chainsawguy


This channel is committed to sharing the greatest hobby of all time chainsaw maintenance with a liberal dose of other Stihl 2 cycle products covered. For the...




youtube.com


----------



## jaggedscars

Bedford T said:


> There are two brake handles. One slopes making room for wrap handle and it's just off the muffler. The kits contained the one for the wrap handle from day one. Now no telling. The lever you speak of does not, did not have anything to do with the position of the brake handle relating to muffler. I think they put the wrong lever in the kit and that is why that lever got replaced. The threads are so long people get confused.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the1chainsawguy
> 
> 
> Welcome, let's talk chainsaw type stuff. I like to build them. I bet you would too, and I would like to give you the opportunity to see and share in the experience and see if you might like it as well. I find it an interesting journey and a lot of fun at the end. An interesting aspect is the kits
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thechainsawkitguy.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the1chainsawguy
> 
> 
> This channel is committed to sharing the greatest hobby of all time chainsaw maintenance with a liberal dose of other Stihl 2 cycle products covered. For the...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> youtube.com


Thanks Bedford T. I don't exactly recall my fix last time but I believe I may have swapped in an OEM brake linkage from a MS440. When It was fixed, the brake handle had full range of motion and engaged/disengaged properly. The first kit I did resulted in the brake handle getting shaved for clearances....Lessons learned! Like previously mentioned, this build is for me and between you and Afleetcommand's YouTube channels, I'm confident that the saw will perform well and last a while.


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