# The Oregon File Guide modded for square filing



## 24d (Jun 1, 2008)

I started with this guide because They have so much adjustment, you can move the chain left to right, back and forth and rotate the file guide 360 degrees on both vertical and horizonal axis' move it up down even the stop is adjustable. Plus they are everywhere.


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## Haywire Haywood (Jun 1, 2008)

What did you mod?

Ian


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## dancan (Jun 1, 2008)

It' obvious from the pictures , it now uses no file .


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## 24d (Jun 1, 2008)

Only problem is, It won't accept a sq file, so I modfied it to hold the sq file and spin it 360 degrees. There is no angle it can't hold a file.


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## dancan (Jun 1, 2008)

dancan said:


> It' obvious from the pictures , it now uses no file .


You see ,I was correct for once (well almost the mod is in the picture part) .
Nice job and good thinking 24d.


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## super3 (Jun 1, 2008)

*Trick*

Nice work!


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## brncreeper (Jun 1, 2008)

Looks good!


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## Jacob J. (Jun 1, 2008)

Larry- that looks real good, although if you want really crisp edges on your square chain you'll need to turn the file around so it's going down into the tooth.


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## 24d (Jun 2, 2008)

Jacob J. said:


> Larry- that looks real good, although if you want really crisp edges on your square chain you'll need to turn the file around so it's going down into the tooth.



Thanks pal! I just thew it up thr and snaped a few pic, I hadn't even tightened the bolts yet. 

Thanks agin


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## HolmenTree (Jun 2, 2008)

You can still use the factory file guide setup with the 3 corner chisel bit file,by putting a 1/2" piece of fuel line on both ends of the file to hold it in place in the round holders.

Great modification you did there for the flat double bevel file.


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## 24d (Jun 4, 2008)

046 said:


> I'd like to have a set too... if you had a few made up. loads of us would be interested..



I could have it done BUT, anybody can take these pictures and have them done at their local machine shop these are the parts  and this is them installed.

It would be a far better idea if one of our sponsers, or Sthil, Oregon, Carlton ect ect. would take this idea and mass produce it, I'm sure they could do it for a 10th of what I can do it for and make a nicer job of it (it would be nice to have degree markes on the part that holds the file). It's two parts and everyone would need two of each plus the fact their is so many of these guides out there, just seems like a good idea to me.



Mr. said:


> It's not Oregon, but I have a buddy that owns a company that does ALOT of government contracts. He has 4 Mityuno (???) workstations. The CNC mills with 5 stations in them. Real production pieces.
> 
> He could tell us the brass tacks on cost.
> 
> Fred



Fred, if you or anyone else can come up with a plan to mass produce this, just let me know and I'll send it to you too check out.

Later,


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## 046 (Jun 4, 2008)

any dimensions?



24d said:


> I could have it done BUT, anybody can take these pictures and have them done at their local machine shop these are the parts  and this is them installed.
> 
> It would be a far better idea if one of our sponsers, or Sthil, Oregon, Carlton ect ect. would take this idea and mass produce it, I'm sure they could do it for a 10th of what I can do it for and make a nicer job of it (it would be nice to have degree markes on the part that holds the file). It's two parts and everyone would need two of each plus the fact their is so many of these guides out there, just seems like a good idea to me.
> 
> ...


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## 24d (Jun 4, 2008)

046 said:


> any dimensions?



It's pretty much just like the one that is on the guide from the factory, just a round hole instead of a little slot, then a cylinder with a slot to hold the file. I took the factory peice and a file to my friend Mike Buck and in just a few minutes we had the parts drawn out on the computer (I'll try to get a print out of those drawings). But with this basic idea, I think anyone with machinist skills could quickly make a set for any guide, Oregon, Nygran, Stihl, Granberg ect ect.


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## Tzed250 (Jun 4, 2008)

24d said:


> It's pretty much just like the one that is on the guide from the factory, just a round hole instead of a little slot, then a cylinder with a slot to hold the file. I took the factory peice and a file to my friend Mike Buck and in just a few minutes we had the parts drawn out on the computer (I'll try to get a print out of those drawings). But with this basic idea, I think anyone with machinist skills could quickly make a set for any guide, Oregon, Nygran, Stihl, Granberg ect ect.



Were the parts made on a wire EDM machine?


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## 24d (Jun 5, 2008)

Tzed250 said:


> Were the parts made on a wire EDM machine?



No, they were cut out with a water jet, then the round part was machined a little, then it was drilled and tapped for the six screws. not a big deal and it could be done cheaper I'm sure (the water jet burnt my @$$ up!) I do have the program in the machines, but just for the water jet part it be round $100.00.

As a side note, the 1st one I ever saw converted this way had a peice of flat bar with 3 holes drilled in it (one for the top bar, one for the sq bar, then one to hold/clamp the peice the file goes in) and a short peice of round tubing with a set screw in it to spin/hold the file.

Later,


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## Tzed250 (Jun 5, 2008)

24d said:


> No, they were cut out with a water jet, then the round part was machined a little, then it was drilled and tapped for the six screws. not a big deal and it could be done cheaper I'm sure (the water jet burnt my @$$ up!) I do have the program in the machines, but just for the water jet part it be round $100.00.
> 
> As a side note, the 1st one I ever saw converted this way had a peice of flat bar with 3 holes drilled in it (one for the top bar, one for the sq bar, then one to hold/clamp the peice the file goes in) and a short peice of round tubing with a set screw in it to spin/hold the file.
> 
> Later,




I can lease a water jet for $55.00/hr.

What was the cycle time on the parts?


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## 24d (Jun 5, 2008)

Tzed250 said:


> I can lease a water jet for $55.00/hr.
> 
> What was the cycle time on the parts?



I wasn't there Mike and I drew up the parts dropped off the drawings, then came back and got the parts, so I don't know, but I'm thinking you could cut out alot more than two in an hr and the materal cost is almost 0. 

Later,

PS = JFYI The only thing I'v seen that I'd change about it so far is I'd make the slot that holds the file have a V in it like the factory one, that way you could put a round or triangle file in it if you wanted to.


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## 24d (Jun 7, 2008)

Something to consider if someone wants to make one of these. The top of the file AND the side of the file must line up perfectly with the round bar on the guide, if not the angles will change as you move the file from one end to the other, it's not a big deal to get it right, just something to be aware of.

Later,


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## joesawer (Jun 7, 2008)

I like the looks of that. In my crystal ball I can see a lot more square filers in the future.
Suddenly my limited ability to free hand square file does not seem so special any more. That looks like it will make a very conisistant and smooth chain.


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## chowdozer (Jun 7, 2008)

Tzed250 said:


> I can lease a water jet for $55.00/hr.
> 
> What was the cycle time on the parts?



Depends on grit size. I'd say 10 minutes tops per part with 70 grit.

24D, would you care to share your drawings? I wouldn't mind making a setup for myself.


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## Vincent (Jun 7, 2008)

*Good Work*

Hi
brilliant idea
How are the results when you file the "round filemode" i.e.
inside out? Is the hard chrome on the cuttingedge line much "crackt"? 
I check it out with the tabelfixed FG 2.

Cheers Vincent


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## 24d (Jun 7, 2008)

joesawer said:


> I like the looks of that. In my crystal ball I can see a lot more square filers in the future.
> Suddenly my limited ability to free hand square file does not seem so special any more. That looks like it will make a very conisistant and smooth chain.



I feel the same way, just this year we have helped A-top develop a fantastic guide that anyone can toss into their tool box or service truck and give to any employee ect and get a nice sq filed chain. Now with this fairly simple modification to this 60 yr old design of a file guide, anybody (with a little practice) can hand file a chain to any angle with near perfect results. 



chowdozer said:


> 24D, would you care to share your drawings? I wouldn't mind making a setup for myself.



YES, I'D BE GLAD TO!! Only problem is I'm headed out of town for a week or two so it may be a while before I can get them and have them up here. However, I really don't think you will need them as it is so simple to do, just look at this picture the top two holes have to be the same as the ones on your factory guide (there are 1000s of guides like this out there, some are slightly diff) then you want the center of the file to be close to where the center of the round file would be on the factory guide, there is a full inch of adjustment here so it's not that critical (see how much shorter mine is, still works fine) the most important thing is The top of the file AND the side of the file must line up perfectly with the round bar on the guide, if not, the angles will change as you move the file from one end to the other, it's not a big deal to get it right, just something to be aware of. I took that factory peice (the black one in the center) and a goofy file (it was the widest thickest file I had, if it works they all will) went to my local machine shop and was sq filing chains with it in less than 24 hrs. It's really simple.


One of the members here contacted me with what seems like a great plan to have these made, packaged and sold, compleat with instructions. He now has my guide and the conversion kit for testing and to see if it can be made cheaply so everyone can have one. By the end of '08 we should all be sq filing!!

Later,


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## ents (Jun 7, 2008)

I think you'll have more people lining up for this than you think (sorta like the shim kits for the grinder). Count me in for one.


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## Urbicide (Jun 7, 2008)

ents said:


> I think you'll have more people lining up for this than you think (sorta like the shim kits for the grinder). Count me in for one.



I was thinking the same thing. Rob & RBW are always getting requests....

Can you get a patent? Not that it would discourage the ChiCom's from stealing it anyway.


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## 24d (Jun 7, 2008)

Urbicide said:


> I was thinking the same thing. Rob & RBW are always getting requests....



If I really wanted one done right, I'd talk to Rob (stihl 041s). I feel like he is in a class above the average machinist, I have an old all metal Nygyan like this Oregon and he is in fact modding it for me right now I just did this one to see if we could get one for everybody and I think we can.



Urbicide said:


> Can you get a patent? Not that it would discourage the ChiCom's from stealing it anyway.



I didn't invent this, I just made one, I'v seen one that was done 50 yrs ago by Martin Hedrick a World Hotsaw Champion in the 60's very much like this one, I don't know if he was the first or not, I'v seen others also. Rather than figure out how to make a buck or two I'd rather everyone have one and get to filing.

I do have some pictures of other guides modded this way but they all came from Dennis Cahoon, I can't bring myself to ask him if I can post them.

Later,


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## 2000ssm6 (Jun 7, 2008)

Awesome work Larry! I'm going to do another gtg in the fall and hope you can make that one. We could make a few cuts, then use your guide to see how it did. I will get one either way though........give me a holla if you think I could help with any thing.


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## 24d (Jun 7, 2008)

I'll be there if I can, I'll send a guide if I can't. I will warn you though, this guide won't be near as simple to use as the A-top we just did some tests on the A-top sq filing guide by the way and it makes a VERY fast work chain that anybody can duplicate.


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## BobL (Jun 11, 2008)

Inspired by Larry (24d), here is my almost fully hand made attempt at a square file guide mod.









I simplified the shaped of the verticals compared to the standard oregon design so that they are basically a straight vertical with a hoop at one end. I used 1/2" ally plate cut out roughly using a bandsaw then sander to final shape using an upturned belt sander. The large (3/4") hoop hole in each of the verticals was drilled using a 3/4" Forstner ww bit - they are so much fun to use on Ally.

The file clamping collars were turned up using the metal work lathe at work from 7/8" ally rod. As well as the square file, as per Larry's idea, these collars also have a hole drilled through them to accept a standard round file. The hardest part was cutting the slot in the collars for the square ground sharpening file to pass thru. I did this by drilling out as much as I could and then by hand using a combination of fine square and round needle files. This took 90% of the 2 hours or so it took to make the whole unit. I like making or modding tools so 2 hours in the shed is just cheap therapy for me after dealing with my day job.

I also used two grub screws instead of a single screw on each vertical to lock the crosswise square and round rods in place to suit the file length. It's dead easy cutting threads in ally using a battery powered drill, thread tap and cutting lube, so cutting an extra thread is no big deal . I think it looks pretty tidy and it works really well. I did use grub screws on all of the other screws but the hex head bolts makes it easier to adjust the file angles etc without needing to find the hex key.

Thanks again for the idea Larry.


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## blsnelling (Jun 11, 2008)

I'd love to have something like this.


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## dustytools (Jun 11, 2008)

blsnelling said:


> I'd love to have something like this.



+1. Count me in for one once they are available.


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## Tzed250 (Jun 11, 2008)

Larry, when is the Atop unit going to be for sale?


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## Andyshine77 (Jun 11, 2008)

dustytools said:


> +1. Count me in for one once they are available.



+3 I'd love to have one.


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## 24d (Jun 15, 2008)

Tzed250 said:


> Larry, when is the Atop unit going to be for sale?



Call Amic's ask for Tony I call in the morning and he answeres anyway most of the time and he can fill you in, soon though I'm sure. I did hear from Goran today and things are moving right along. Well here is the Email as sent to Kevin and I.


Hello Kevin,

Thank you for your information about your testing.I think both you and me plus your friends in the US have a passion for this that goes beyound "normal people"
I have my background in the swedish chain saw industry (Husky) and found 15 years ago that something new need to come in terms of cutting faster r by a chain saw. At that time we spend a lot in R&D to improve the chain saws where the limitation was the chain. 
As time has gone has the fuel reduction argument for using sqyare ground sharpening become even stronger. I have a test logger over here who are saveing about 400 liters. gallons? 144 gallons? in a year. So your 60% price increease of fuel in one year will soon affect the loggers economy. I fwe have the counter tool to help loggers do we hit the market at the right time. 


I heard about squareground sharpening in the US and learned if from the Oregon people, at that time Dudely Hollis was around and we become friends. The Atop goofy filing was just an attempt to come up with something new. Seems not to be working so good even though it cut quite OK. We have understood that the target group is the US market with the "real square ground sharpening"

We aim to have 500 units made in this year and you will the first to get them for free as thanks for all the testing you ahve made. We plan to make an animation as instruction beside the paper operators manual. I want to buy the video clip from your testing?

We also plan to att he back side of the operators manual to have a "word list" explaining for example, gauge, working corner, gullet area, etc, etc. I"m probably comming back to you and Larry for setting a US touch on the word list.

Thank you at the moment and we have by you and Larry got the encuragement to go on with this. Hope to seeing you one day in the US,

Sincerely 
Göran Carlström 


I should add we refused any compensation for our involment or vids. This is all in fun right?




BobL said:


> Inspired by Larry (24d), here is my almost fully hand made attempt at a square file guide mod.
> 
> front
> back
> ...




Great job Bob!! Let me know how it works for you! Are any of the rest of you making one of these conversions, can I help?

Being able to file your chains and make all your saws from here on out a solid 15% faster, with no down side, thats a big deal and something all of us (well the ones that don't know already) should be trying to do. Weather you need a guide, learn to do it freehand, what ever 15% free speed, 15% less fuel, 15% easier on your saw, 15% less work, for every saw you own or will ever own, we all need to master this one way or another.


Later,


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## Tzed250 (Jun 16, 2008)

Larry, your work is much appreciated!!!


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## 24d (Jun 17, 2008)

Tzed250 said:


> Larry, your work is much appreciated!!!



WORK??? HAHAHA!! So is your touch of comedy haha! Thanks though, really is all in fun.

Later,


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## ray benson (Jun 17, 2008)

The Oregon Engineer has been on the site but no replies to this thread.


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## 24d (Jun 18, 2008)

ray benson said:


> The Oregon Engineer has been on the site but no replies to this thread.



We have PMed about it, he has seen this thread, if he has a comment, I'm sure he will share it with us.
_________________________________________________________________

The Oregon guide is a copy of the Nygran guide, it did use a round or sq file it just didn't allow the sq file to rotate, that in itself is not really nessasary, I think it is better and for sure offers more angles and for me it was easier to make a conversion that rotated as opposed to one that didn't.
I do have some friends that use the original guide (with the file on a fixed angle) and are very satisfied with the results.
Good question is, there are alot of companys coping the Nygran (now Grangerg), Why did they all lose the double bevel file feature, even Granberg?








How it held the double bevel file





Nygran modded to rotate the sq file 40yrs ago -




These 3 pictures were taken from some of Dennis Cahoon's old threads.

Later,


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## 24d (Dec 26, 2008)

Bump. Well I can't get anyone to mass produce them. Anyone else done the conversion?


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## Metals406 (Dec 29, 2008)

24d said:


> Bump. Well I can't get anyone to mass produce them. Anyone else done the conversion?



I have been thinking a lot lately, about checking into making these conversions. I have access to a milling machine, lathe, and a waterjet. The waterjet machine would be the most expensive portion of production. I believe the machine is $130 an hour? (pretty fair for a machine that cost $250,000.)

Although, I believe many parts could be cut in that hour... I'll look into it sometime this week.

I'm worried they would have to be sold for $25-$35 (shipped) a piece in a semi-production setting. The only way to keep cost lower, is to mass produce the product. In example--a run of 50 pieces, costs far more than a run of 5,000 pieces.


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## Tzed250 (Dec 29, 2008)

Metals406 said:


> I have been thinking a lot lately, about checking into making these conversions. I have access to a milling machine, lathe, and a waterjet. The waterjet machine would be the most expensive portion of production. I believe the machine is $130 an hour? (pretty fair for a machine that cost $250,000.)
> 
> Although, I believe many parts could be cut in that hour... I'll look into it sometime this week.
> 
> I'm worried they would have to be sold for $25-$35 (shipped) a piece in a semi-production setting. The only way to keep cost lower, is to mass produce the product. In example--a run of 50 pieces, costs far more than a run of 5,000 pieces.



I have access to a waterjet at about $55/hr.


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## Metals406 (Dec 29, 2008)

Tzed250 said:


> I have access to a waterjet at about $55/hr.



Well that seems to be the way to go then... Unless Josh (the guy with the waterjet here) has dropped his price, but I doubt he has.

He has treated me good in the past though.

So can you make a run of these then?


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## 1953greg (Feb 15, 2009)

any update on this thread???

its too good to lose


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## 24d (Feb 16, 2009)

I passed it around to some of the members, contacted Stihl and Oregon with E mails pictures and phone calls. Everyone really likes it, it works very well, but so far no one is doing anything about it. I gave this one to one of my friends and when time permits I will convert this Stihl bench mounted guide pretty much the same way.

They really should come like this but o well.

Later,


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## FSburt (Dec 15, 2010)

Just found this thread while doing some searches and wow did this project end up going anywhere I would think this would make square ground chisel more popular if joe public would have a easier time filing on it. I use it sporadically and usually not on fires just because of the filing time and the carbon/charcoaled wood just does a number on these chains I have found so I just stick with round ground chisel instead and save the square stuff for the hazard tree work in unburned wood.


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## madhatte (Dec 15, 2010)

I've been chucking a regular hex chisel file up in my Granberg File-N-Joint and getting great results. I really need to post pics -- it's surprisingly easy to use, and requires no modification.


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## FSburt (Dec 15, 2010)

Please do I would like to see how it works for ya.


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## HARRY BARKER (Dec 24, 2010)

me too....pics??? more info?


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## HARRY BARKER (Dec 24, 2010)

BobL said:


> Inspired by Larry (24d), here is my almost fully hand made attempt at a square file guide mod.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


how did you make the square hole for the cross bar?


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## madhatte (Dec 24, 2010)

Here's what my setup looks like mounted on the bar. Top plate angle is about 22*, down angle is about 40*. I say "about" because the increments are marked off pretty roughly, and I'm hitting them as close as I can without a protractor. 






Here's how the file is aligned to the tooth. Note that the wide side of the hex file is pointed up into the underside of the top plate, and the small side down into the corner.






It's pretty easy to avoid beaks with this setup by realigning slightly with the swinging arm for each cutter. Two or three swipes usually does it. 

Also note that the jig is un-modified. I'm just using the little hex files in place of the double bevel file.


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## 24d (Oct 27, 2011)

BUMP!!!!! Is ya chains sharp yet????


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## parrisw (Oct 27, 2011)

I always thought this was a great idea, would like to try it.


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## 24d (Oct 28, 2011)

parrisw said:


> I always thought this was a great idea, would like to try it.


 
Everybody should have one, I'm really surprised no one is offering a kit by now.


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## parrisw (Oct 28, 2011)

24d said:


> Everybody should have one, I'm really surprised no one is offering a kit by now.


 
Ya, I should make one, and if it's easy, make a bunch of them.


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## komatsuvarna (Oct 28, 2011)

parrisw said:


> Ya, I should make one, and if it's easy, make a bunch of them.


 
Yeah, I know where you could sell one at for sure!


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## parrisw (Oct 28, 2011)

komatsuvarna said:


> Yeah, I know where you could sell one at for sure!


 
You'll be the first to know.


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## parrisw (Oct 28, 2011)

24d said:


> Everybody should have one, I'm really surprised no one is offering a kit by now.


 
Could you maybe post some measurements? Like size of the round stock needed? I'll have to see if I still have one of those guides, I may have given it away.


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## 24d (Oct 28, 2011)

parrisw said:


> Could you maybe post some measurements? Like size of the round stock needed? I'll have to see if I still have one of those guides, I may have given it away.


 
You don't need measurements, just take your guide and make it fit your sq file, it's a lot simpler than it sounds.


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## parrisw (Oct 29, 2011)

24d said:


> You don't need measurements, just take your guide and make it fit your sq file, it's a lot simpler than it sounds.


 
Ok, thanks. I figured it can't be that hard, I'll go measure up my file, and see about getting some material.


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## 24d (Oct 29, 2011)

Most of you can go to your local machine shop, explain what you are doing and ask for their help. Quite often if you get one of the boys interested in a tiny project like this, they will do it for free. Especially if they like saws and sharp chains and lets face it, every body does LOL!


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## parrisw (Oct 30, 2011)

24d said:


> Most of you can go to your local machine shop, explain what you are doing and ask for their help. Quite often if you get one of the boys interested in a tiny project like this, they will do it for free. Especially if they like saws and sharp chains and lets face it, every body does LOL!


 
That would be cool. But not around here. I asked a place to machine a piston for one of my saws, they said no its too small to fit in my lathe?????????WTF?. Hence why I now have a metal lathe.


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## 24d (Nov 1, 2011)

This could be done by just making one part twice for each guide and it would fit any guide made. Think of a small piece of steel that would slip over the end of a square file with a set screw to hold it on, then the other end would be a quarter inch round piece about an inch long to slip into the guide where the round file was meant to go. Clamp your file in a vise and break the tail off and the same part would fit both ends.
I know there has got to be some machinists up here that can make a simple kit to sell.


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## parrisw (Nov 1, 2011)

24d said:


> This could be done by just making one part twice for each guide and it would fit any guide made. Think of a small piece of steel that would slip over the end of a square file with a set screw to hold it on, then the other end would be a quarter inch round piece about an inch long to slip into the guide where the round file was meant to go. Clamp your file in a vise and break the tail off and the same part would fit both ends.
> I know there has got to be some machinists up here that can make a simple kit to sell.


 
Im not really following your thoughts? Hard to picture. Maybe you could do a simple drawing?


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## 24d (Nov 1, 2011)

parrisw said:


> Im not really following your thoughts? Hard to picture. Maybe you could do a simple drawing?


Yea, I'll try to do that today. 
Picture a 3/4 to 1/4 reducer coupling for a piece of pipe, thread a hole for a set screw in one side of the 3/4 end, slip in the file and tighten the screw till it holds the file against the opposite wall, then slip the 1/4 end into the guide where the round file went. Bam, it's converted.


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## parrisw (Nov 1, 2011)

24d said:


> Yea, I'll try to do that today.
> Picture a 3/4 to 1/4 reducer coupling for a piece of pipe, thread a hole for a set screw in one side of the 3/4 end, slip in the file and tighten the screw till it holds the file against the opposite wall, then slip the 1/4 end into the guide where the round file went. Bam, it's converted.


 
Ok I'm following ya now.


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## 24d (Nov 1, 2011)

parrisw said:


> Ok I'm following ya now.


I thought you get me then. 
The first one I saw converted belonged to Dennis Cahoon, I can't find a picture of it but that was pretty much the way it was done.
Once you get it to hold it steady, you can make it do anything you want.


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## parrisw (Nov 1, 2011)

24d said:


> I thought you get me then.
> The first one I saw converted belonged to Dennis Cahoon, I can't find a picture of it but that was pretty much the way it was done.
> Once you get it to hold it steady, you can make it do anything you want.


 
Right, I might try to make it a little more pretty. But if it works it works. Just don't know when I'll have the time, go too many projects.


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## 24d (Nov 2, 2011)

parrisw said:


> Right, I might try to make it a little more pretty.


 That is the way I looked at it, fancied up, easy to use as possible, use your imagination, make a cool tool!


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## Freakingstang (Oct 26, 2012)

Late to the party, but this is what I have used for years...

Grandberg once made a File-N-Joint for Chisel bit files. I believe that is where the machinist guy got the idea for the Stihl. I have been thinking about making a bench mount version... have looked into the FG2 also and don't like the price. Anyone make one similar?

Here's the old bar mount chiset bit FNJ, thinking of getting a Stihl bench mount and adapting this to it...






















best close up pic of the tooth I could get with my iphone. This was square ground stihl chain to start with. I normally touch it up by hand, but just threw it on quick(with an old file) to show some pics. It works great for converting round chain to square, or squaring up a rocked out chain, otherwise, I file by hand, as I'm impatient and the jig takes too much fidling with left and right...


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## cutforfun (Oct 27, 2012)

a little bit back woods but it works good.
Parts needed
2- 7/16 nut drivers for drill
2- 1/4 bit holders

i found that a pferd file fits tight in a 7/16 nut driver (corner to corner)that got me thinking:confused2: i wonder. 
i took the two bit holders and cut them off about 1/2 in or so just to give me a round tube to slip over the 1/4 shank on the nut driver, that would give me full range of rotation in the jig. from there all i had to do was cut a 10 dollar file down to fit tight between the to 7/16 drivers and tighten up all the clamps. next thing i new i came up with this .


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## RedneckChainsawRepair (Oct 27, 2012)

You should see the one Adam Clarke made from stihl version and machined new parts for so you could square file faster chains. :msp_thumbup:  Beautiful craftsmanship like always from him and then he gave it to someone in TN.


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## Freakingstang (Oct 27, 2012)

cutforfun said:


> a little bit back woods but it works good.
> Parts needed
> 2- 7/16 nut drivers for drill
> 2- 1/4 bit holders
> ...



Great ingenuity.. How do you tighten the bar down to hold the tooth, or are you just relying on the clamp of the file jig? That was the only thing i didn't like about the FNJ, it didn't seem to hold the tooth tight enough. Chatter on a 15 dollar file ruins it real quick


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## cutforfun (Oct 27, 2012)

i set the rails on the jig as high as i can on the chain above the rivets. It works ok, i can see that i have a small beak in the tooth i took pics of. I will play with it a bit more and take some more pics.


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## w8ye (Oct 27, 2012)

I went to the hardware up the street and purchased a couple 7/16" nut driver bits and two 1/4" bit holders. It was close to $30.

The 7/16" Irwin bits come close (across the corners of the socket is slightly small for the file which is good) to fitting the flat portion of a double bevel chisel file (The one I tried was a Save Edge). The sockets also have a round shank on them about 1/2" long before the hex portion that fits in the Oregon Professional guide. It appears to me - in order to keep the file level, you need to set up the file to use the 7/16" bits on both ends? Also, if necessary, you can get a new rod and key stock to make the Oregon Professional Guide longer, if you like, at the hardware store?

The 1/4" bit holders (Do-It) would fit the handle portion of the file if the handle portion was shortened somewhat.

FWIW - There is nothing about these holder bits that fit any part of a Pferd 3 Corner Chisel File.

It is a cold rainy day and fine for working on a chain but I have not done that yet today.


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## Freakingstang (Oct 27, 2012)

w8ye said:


> I went to the hardware up the street and purchased a couple 7/16" nut driver bits and two 1/4" bit holders. It was close to $30.
> 
> The 7/16" Irwin bits come close (across the corners of the socket is slightly small for the file which is good) to fitting the flat portion of a double bevel chisel file (The one I tried was a Save Edge). The sockets also have a round shank on them about 1/2" long before the hex portion that fits in the Oregon Professional guide. It appears to me - in order to keep the file level, you need to set up the file to use the 7/16" bits on both ends? Also, if necessary, you can get a new rod and key stock to make the Oregon Professional Guide longer, if you like, at the hardware store?
> 
> ...



Great day for cutting and splitting... lmao


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## w8ye (Oct 27, 2012)

Concerning holding the chain tight on the bar.

Jeremiah Johnson showed me to mount the chain on a bar on a chainsaw. To have the chain the normal tightness on the chainsaw. 

But when using the guide -and- you get the chain in position against the stop on the guide . . . .

You stick a scrench between the chain and the bar on the bottom side of the bar to make the chain extremely tight - to file it.

Then remove the scrench to move the chain up to the next tooth.

This way you do not get the tooth cocking up on the front edge.


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## cutforfun (Oct 27, 2012)

A 7/16. Driver with a round part on the shank would be perfict , mine did not have that.


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## w8ye (Oct 27, 2012)

The Irwin brand 7/16" nut driver bits fit in the older Oregon/Tecomec Professional file guide like you have without modification.

However, neither the Irwin nut drivers or the Do-it holders will fit in the current model Oregon professional guide as it is smaller and only holds 1/4" diameter or a raker file without modification.

The "Do-it" brand bit holders are the same diameter as the Irwin nut driver bits.

I also found out that the key stock and drill rod for the slides on the guide are 6mm (.236") which you would have to get at McMaster-Carr to make the guide longer. I think they come in 12" length?

I think the real old die cast holder style Oregon Professional guide will hold the Irwin nut drivers without modes.


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## parrisw (Oct 27, 2012)

cutforfun said:


> a little bit back woods but it works good.
> Parts needed
> 2- 7/16 nut drivers for drill
> 2- 1/4 bit holders
> ...



Good idea, I may turn something up on the lathe instead of using nut drivers, then just mill a slot to fit the file and a set screw to hold it.


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## cutforfun (Oct 27, 2012)

Better make a few sets and i will send you my address:msp_tongue:


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## parrisw (Oct 27, 2012)

cutforfun said:


> Better make a few sets and i will send you my address:msp_tongue:



Might be a possibility! I got lots of projects, I'll try and do it soon and see how it goes.


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## Philbert (Jan 29, 2013)

Here's a link to a few related posts by redprospector in another thread:

- http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/141414-9.htm

Check out post 134, and photos in posts 141, and 142

Philbert


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## Philbert (Feb 6, 2013)

I am just starting to try/learn about square ground chain with nothing to show for it yet. But because of this thread I ordered a Save Edge triangular chisel chain file from Bailey's and it fit in all of the several Granberg / Oregon style filing guides described in this thread. I have not tried to file with it yet.

I know that a lot of guys prefer the double bevel files for hand filing, but once it is in the guide, any reason why the triangular files won't work?

Thanks.

Philbert


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## w8ye (Feb 6, 2013)

I've sharpened square chains with the triangular files and they work just fine. They have a good feel.


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## cutforfun (Feb 6, 2013)

As long as you can rotate the file in the mount and get it locked in place at the right spot, it should work


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## Dennis Cahoon (Feb 6, 2013)

Philbert said:


> I am just starting to try/learn about square ground chain with nothing to show for it yet. But because of this thread I ordered a Save Edge triangular chisel chain file from Bailey's and it fit in all of the several Granberg / Oregon style filing guides described in this thread. I have not tried to file with it yet.
> 
> I know that a lot of guys prefer the double bevel files for hand filing, but once it is in the guide, any reason why the triangular files won't work?
> 
> ...



I don't like the vertical angle the triangle file gives you.


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## roberte (Feb 15, 2013)

View attachment 279404
View attachment 279405


Well Im going to try the triangular file and see what happens. I have been a round filer for 34 years and that guide is that old.
1. It fits in my guide, big plus, I am OCD about this.
2. I dedicate this chain to the square technique, and just to switch it up a little I am going half skip for this chain. 
Ran the file over the factory edge after cutting a couple of tanks of fuel, it was certainly different on the new chain.


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## Philbert (Feb 15, 2013)

roberte said:


> Well Im going to try the triangular file and see what happens. I have been a round filer for 34 years and that guide is that old.
> 1. It fits in my guide, big plus, I am OCD about this.
> 2. I dedicate this chain to the square technique, and just to switch it up a little I am going half skip for this chain.
> Ran the file over the factory edge after cutting a couple of tanks of fuel, it was certainly different on the new chain.



Your photos did not show - please try to re-post them?

Thanks.

Philbert


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## roberte (Feb 15, 2013)

View attachment 279408
View attachment 279409

Any better


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## Philbert (Feb 15, 2013)




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## roberte (Feb 15, 2013)

Philbert said:


> Those photos showed up.
> 
> Not to be fussy, but to keep things straight, it looks like you are using a 'double bevel file' instead of a 'triangular file'.
> 
> ...



The pics probably are not the greatest, but that file is triangular, ok well if we are technical, that file is six sided. 
That flipping file was $10.00, which was something pushed me over the edge to try it. I had to know what a $10.00 file could do.


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## w8ye (Feb 15, 2013)

The file you call triangular is actually six sided

It only has three corners though

I've used them and like them as well as the double bevel files


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## 24d (May 11, 2013)

Bumping this up for a friend.
You can make your own guide for any file on any chain. I like guides, I have them for many files and many chains to do many different things. If Dennis Cahoon lived closer, I'd throw them all away hahahahaha!
Hope everyone is well! Thanks for all the help!


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## super3 (May 11, 2013)

24d said:


> Bumping this up for a friend.
> You can make your own guide for any file on any chain. I like guides, I have them for many files and many chains to do many different things. If Dennis Cahoon lived closer, I'd throw them all away hahahahaha!
> Hope everyone is well! Thanks for all the help!





He aint got time to #### with us wood ticks.


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## Philbert (Mar 20, 2015)

Bump, and a link to a related thread: http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/granberg-chisel-bit-file-n-joint.62604/

Philbert


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## CoreyB (Nov 29, 2015)

Did anyone find a way to use the filing guide to square file. Has anyone used a triangle file without having to do a lot of modification?


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## dbittle (Nov 29, 2015)

CoreyB said:


> Did anyone find a way to use the filing guide to square file. Has anyone used a triangle file without having to do a lot of modification?


Yep to your first question. The way I did it was to look on feebay for one of the old Nygrans with the notches that hold a double bevel file. That has worked pretty well. Very occasionally, one of the Granberg G-107's shows up as well. That is the factory square filing jig that allows you to adjust the file angle. Most of the Nygrans are pretty worn though, so you will probably wind up cobbling together several to get one that doesn't have a lot of slop in it. 

For your second question, I run .325 chain so the triangle file is too thick to fit my chains. I bought one and haven't been able to use it. It fits the Granberg style guides without modification though, from what I've seen.


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