# Scaffolding to climb tree.



## mountainsco (Jun 17, 2013)

Hi

I've got 3 pine trees near my house that need to come down due to fire danger. I want to remove them from the top down to eliminate any chance of them hitting my house.

The biggest is 27" diameter at the base and about 35-40' tall. I'm not a tree climber, but I am handy with a chainsaw. I was thinking about erecting scaffolding and clearing the limbs as I go up. I can bolt the scaffolding to the tree to keep it from tipping. 

I realize this is not the way a pro would do it, but I have the scaffolding and am not concerned with how quickly it is done. Are there any pitfalls to my plan?

Thanks in advance!
Dan


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## TheJollyLogger (Jun 17, 2013)

It's somebody else's turn. Book em, Danno.


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## Gologit (Jun 17, 2013)

Would this get better responses in 101?


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## Gologit (Jun 17, 2013)

Del_ said:


> It's hard to imagine that the OP is serious. A 27" DBH pine must be at least 80ft. tall.
> 
> We must be getting our collective leg pulled, IMO.



Maybe so but we'll let the guys in 101 take a look. If that doesn't work we'll move up the page a little. :msp_biggrin:


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## KenJax Tree (Jun 17, 2013)

The bait seems real good,but i ain't bitin'


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## TheJollyLogger (Jun 17, 2013)

Gologit said:


> Would this get better responses in 101?



Ok, Ok. Just for you. 

To the original poster: Yes there are numerous pitfalls to what you are proposing.

1. Ensuring the stability of the scaffolding. Most scaffolding is designed to be erected on a flat, stable area, generally not how I would describe the terrain that surrounds the trunks of most of the Ponderosa pines found along the Front Range of Colorado. I am assuming it is a Ponderosa since you have said it has a diameter of 27 inches, and after living and working in the Douglas, Elbert, and El Paso county area for 15 yrs. I don't know of another pine variety in CO that gets that large a trunk, although as del said I would expect a pondo with a dbh of 27 inches to be much closer to 80' than 40. You mentioned that you were going to bolt your scaffolding to the trunk for stability. What method were you planning on using for this? All thread through a 20" plus diameter trunk? A couple lag bolts is not going to be enough. If a decent size branch hits that scaffolding, it will come over, or apart. Most scaffolding I've worked with might be strong enough in the vertical plane, but not really designed to resist lateral forces.

2. You say you are handy with a chainsaw. First, not really sure what that means, but I do know using a chainsaw aloft has nothing to do with using one in the air. Wood reacts much differently in the vertical plain, and gravity is unforgiving. From the situation you have described, you will have a house on one side and scaffolding as well, so your drop zone will be greatly reduced. snap cutting and floating branches down is an acquired art.

I could go on, but hopefully I have given you a few things to chew on. Obviously, you want to protect your property, who wouldn't? But what is ypur life worth? If you get the evacuation notice you grab what's important and save yourself. So think for one moment: if your property isn't worth your life, then why are you willing to risk your life to save a few hundred bucks?


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## woodchuck357 (Jun 17, 2013)

This post is as phony as a 16 ft tall oak barber chair!


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## RVALUE (Jun 17, 2013)

To answer the question, 

Rigging the scaffolding high enough such as to handle each piece and throw it down, would work. Maybe slow, maybe tall ....... but would work.

Otherwise there are some valid points about the cost / safety issues. 

Wouldn't a pic with 15 levels of scaffolding be something?


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## StrataTree (Jun 17, 2013)

I don't like it! If your "handy" with a chainsaw just bring in a faller and you can buck and limb once they're on the ground. Or, if your really "handy" with a saw, FELL those suckers!


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## Gologit (Jun 17, 2013)

woodchuck357 said:


> This post is as phony as a 16 ft tall oak barber chair!



Maybe, maybe not. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt and help him if we can.

It's obvious he doesn't know much but if everybody took your negative attitude he'll never learn much either.

If he wants to learn we'll give him some advice. If he turns out to be a troll he's gone...simple as that.


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## woodchuck357 (Jun 18, 2013)

*Sorry for the negativity, it's been one of those days!*

So some real advice in case it is a real post. 

Find at least a half dozen similar trees that are located well away from danger, take them down, then, if you have no problems, cut the ones close to the house.

That's what I do, every new technique is repeatedly tested in safe places until I am 100 percent confident in it before I use it on a job.


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## bootboy (Jun 18, 2013)

Del_ said:


> It's hard to imagine that the OP is serious. A 27" DBH pine must be at least 80ft. tall.
> 
> We must be getting our collective leg pulled, IMO.



Where is the OP located?

Here in the arid west, we have evergreen yard trees that grow up to 50" in diameter but only reach 40-50' in height. I did a spruce last year that was 48" DBH and was only 35' tall.

Anyway, the scaffolding idea doesn't sound bad... It doesn't sound good either....


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## mountainsco (Jun 18, 2013)

*Really not trolling.*

View attachment 300857
View attachment 300858


Hi guys,

Nope not trolling, and I can see why someone might think I was on the front range with the Black Forest fire deal and all the houses burning down. I'm at 9000 ft in the rockies about 30 miles north west of the royal gorge where there was also a fire last week. Got me thinking about keeping the house I'm building safe.

The biggest tree is indeed 27" in diameter at the base, and it is indeed 35-40 ft. tall as It was about the same height as my house when I was up on the scaffolding building it.

I have leveling jacks, and stabilizers for my scaffolding and can go 20' in the air (standing at 21' high), without attaching to anything. I usually tie into something every level or so with steel bars and 3" lag bolts.

The house doesn't sway with the wind quite like a tree does.

In any case, we have some pines that are 100' tall, and quite a few that are short and stubby. Anything up here has to be able to survive the wind.

Another thought I had was to wrap some high strength line around them and just pull them over with my tractor, but I have no idea how much force it takes to pull down a healthy tree. My tractor weighs about 8000 pounds with the backhoe and FEL attached and has 55HP.

Just posting to folks who know a lot about trees. I can't afford to hire a pro this year, but I'd really like them down. I'm not going to hire some hack without insurance and have a tree smack into my brand new (unfinished) house.

Thanks for reading. 

Do people really troll arborists?


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## ropensaddle (Jun 18, 2013)

mountainsco said:


> View attachment 300857
> View attachment 300858
> 
> 
> Ok seeing if the pictures worked. Then I'll edit this.



That tree can be felled get a rope in it high and recruit some pullers make sure rope is two times distance of tree so that you don't crush your help! Search proper notching technique and fell it.


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## ropensaddle (Jun 18, 2013)

In the second picture fall it with pull away from house! You can set the rope by several means safest is with throwball but that is a whole other learning process. If and only if you can get a ladder firmly set is another" not real safe though".


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## ropensaddle (Jun 18, 2013)

You can make a throw line with trotline rope and 2 ounce lead sinkers make sure you pitch the weight away from house then tie your pull rope to the smaller throw line and pull your pull rope up and over high limb and back down to tie off!


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## ropensaddle (Jun 18, 2013)

here is a throwline
"Throw Line" - Kristian Ross - YouTube


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## treemandan (Jun 18, 2013)

mountainsco said:


> View attachment 300857
> View attachment 300858
> 
> 
> ...



We tend to troll ourselves but I would think if you fired up yer Poulan and were able to keep it running long enough you could just cut straight through the bottom of that tree while one of us holds it and then carries it to the chipper.


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## Trx250r180 (Jun 18, 2013)

take that ford truck ,park it down the hill,get enough cable or strong rope ,like 100 plus feet so the tree wont fall on your truck ,that's a small tree ,iv'e hooked my winch 10 feet up on a tree like that ,make about a 6 inch face cut ,i prefer humbolt ,face on the bottom ,make a back cut but leave about 3 inches of holding wood for a hinge ,back your truck up slowly breaking the hinge ,the hinge or holding wood will control the direction of the fall ,the same thing could be done with a couple of wedges on the back cut side ,as you pound them in they will break the hinge wood ,make sure your back cut is strait across ,so the tree goes the way your aiming ,if you are wedging make sure to look up a lot make sure nothing falls on your head ,that truck may be safer if you don't have enough falling experience with wedges ,once your cuts are made ,it doesn't take too much force to pull it over, maybe practice on the ones farther from the house till you feel more confident how this method works ,the loggers are pro's don't need any rigging to drop trees ,but if your trying to save a buck and do yourself ,the truck will pull it over


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## TheJollyLogger (Jun 18, 2013)

Let's slow down here fellas. Ok, first, I'll give those 37" circumference, but not diameter. Second, having seen the pics, I don't see them as a huge fire risk. It looks like you have some pretty good defensible space, and not a lot of ladder fuel around. I would limb them up a little, but,if the rest of your property looks like that, I wouldn't be too worried about it. You can always get the local fire department out to give you a risk assessment. Jeff


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## ropensaddle (Jun 18, 2013)

trx250r180 said:


> take that ford truck ,park it down the hill,get enough cable or strong rope ,like 100 plus feet so the tree wont fall on your truck ,that's a small tree ,iv'e hooked my winch 10 feet up on a tree like that ,make about a 6 inch face cut ,i prefer humbolt ,face on the bottom ,make a back cut but leave about 3 inches of holding wood for a hinge ,back your truck up slowly breaking the hinge ,the hinge or holding wood will control the direction of the fall ,the same thing could be done with a couple of wedges on the back cut side ,as you pound them in they will break the hinge wood ,make sure your back cut is strait across ,so the tree goes the way your aiming ,if you are wedging make sure to look up a lot make sure nothing falls on your head ,that truck may be safer if you don't have enough falling experience with wedges ,once your cuts are made ,it doesn't take too much force to pull it over, maybe practice on the ones farther from the house till you feel more confident how this method works ,the loggers are pro's don't need any rigging to drop trees ,but if your trying to save a buck and do yourself ,the truck will pull it over



Ok sanford show me a logger who can fall this one no rigging and not destroy home :hmm3grin2orange:


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## Trx250r180 (Jun 18, 2013)

ropensaddle said:


> Ok sanford show me a logger who can fall this one no rigging and not destroy home :hmm3grin2orange:



well this one will fall somewhere if you cut it with no rigging :hmm3grin2orange: ,my "suggestion" was for that pine by his house , yes all trees are different ,that rotten thing looks pretty sketchy to drop to say the least ,but someone (not me ) that knows what they are doing can find a spot to cut that to make it go away from the house with proper wedges ,may take some climbing gear or a man lift to get up high enough to find a solid spot ,iv'e had luck falling sideways 90 degrees of the lean and go where i want ,180 degrees a lot tougher but iv'e seen it done so it is possible


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## Zale (Jun 18, 2013)

How much would it cost to hire a arborist to put the tree on the ground? I can't see it taking more than 15 minutes with set up time.


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## StrataTree (Jun 18, 2013)

Just leave 'em... Like Jollylogger said, I don't see the fire risk. We do ladder fuel reduction jobs all the time(LFR's)and we only limb dead branches to 10' from grade. Your property looks clean with not much ladder fuel to begin with...I think you're fine. Enjoy the shade!


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## mountainsco (Jun 18, 2013)

TheJollyLogger said:


> Let's slow down here fellas. Ok, first, I'll give those 37" circumference, but not diameter. Second, having seen the pics, I don't see them as a huge fire risk. It looks like you have some pretty good defensible space, and not a lot of ladder fuel around. I would limb them up a little, but,if the rest of your property looks like that, I wouldn't be too worried about it. You can always get the local fire department out to give you a risk assessment. Jeff



27" diameter, not 37". I used a tape measure. And getting a fireman out to assess sounds like a great idea. I'll still have to fell it in a year or so since it's smack dab where my garage is going to be.

Thanks!
Dan


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## StrataTree (Jun 18, 2013)

Ok, well in that case... Nice truck! I'm lookin for a '96 or '97 reg. or extra cab, 5 spd. Power stroke, Love 'em! Flatbed dump would be shweet!


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## mountainsco (Jun 18, 2013)

StrataTree said:


> Ok, well in that case... Nice truck! I'm lookin for a '96 or '97 reg. or extra cab, 5 spd. Power stroke, Love 'em! Flatbed dump would be shweet!



Heh, thanks! She's a 96 F350 crew 4x4, turbo with a manual tranny. She's got a sweet audio system too with 2 12" subs and an external amp behind the back seat. Not boomy, just nice. Going to do something similar in my next truck but far more sophisticated. It's funny, but I had the tranny rebuilt about 10 years ago, and I've replaced the alternator, and the batteries about 3 times. Other than that nothing. Pretty damned good truck.

I'm getting rid of her next year for likely a crew cab Ford Raptor. I don't really need an F350 , and she's awful rough to ride in. I'm retired now and want something smooth and comfy. 37" tires and a lift kit was fine 10 years ago as my toy, but It's hard for my wife to get into anymore, and lately it's become a farm truck. I take her in every 3 months or so to get building materials with a trailer, but an F150 can do that just fine. 

I'm done with diesel trucks btw. We hit -40F occasionally up here, and that truck just won't start even with fuel additives. My tractor is diesel, but if you give it a minute or 2 of glowplug time, she starts just fine. 

I think my perfect truck would be a Raptor with the ecoboost twin turbo engine for our high altitude, and since I'm (mostly) done with off-roading, all I have to deal with is our washboard roads. The look of the raptor just really appeals to me. Only downside is 13 MPG. Gas is starting to get pretty expensive.

Later-
Dan


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## TheJollyLogger (Jun 18, 2013)

If they're in the way of your garage, no problem. I would much rather see you pull em than do the scaffold thing. As far as your property goes, though, I wouldn't get too stressed about fires. Black Forest was a whole not her ball game, that area has been overgrown for years, way overdue. Kinda reminds me of what I saw after the Bastrop fires. Kinds tired of being right, but most homeowners don't want to listen.


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## ropensaddle (Jun 18, 2013)

trx250r180 said:


> well this one will fall somewhere if you cut it with no rigging :hmm3grin2orange: ,my "suggestion" was for that pine by his house , yes all trees are different ,that rotten thing looks pretty sketchy to drop to say the least ,but someone (not me ) that knows what they are doing can find a spot to cut that to make it go away from the house with proper wedges ,may take some climbing gear or a man lift to get up high enough to find a solid spot ,iv'e had luck falling sideways 90 degrees of the lean and go where i want ,180 degrees a lot tougher but iv'e seen it done so it is possible



Haha no mate that was no wedge drop tree it was a 20 ton winch! In the picture I had already taken off all my 60 foot bucket could. A logger with only wedges would have cremed the house. I can fell with wedges, this was certainly no time for them ! Not every tree can be wedge felled without damage is my point. Most long time loggers know when to bring out cables!


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## mountainsco (Jun 18, 2013)

TheJollyLogger said:


> If they're in the way of your garage, no problem. I would much rather see you pull em than do the scaffold thing. As far as your property goes, though, I wouldn't get too stressed about fires. Black Forest was a whole not her ball game, that area has been overgrown for years, way overdue. Kinda reminds me of what I saw after the Bastrop fires. Kinds tired of being right, but most homeowners don't want to listen.



A fire wiped out most of our area about 50 years ago. All of our trees are new growth, and most are under 100' tall. I've walked some of the places where a huge mansion was the place to go for the rich back years ago. I do have some stumps on my property that are about 3' diameter. Never really occurred to us to question. I like our trees alot and cutting some of them down is sad. We have 20 acres, and hundreds of trees including aspens.

I'm handy with a chainsaw means, I've cut all sorts of lumber for the stove on the ground. I understand the theory of cutting down a tree quite well. I think I'll get a fire guy out here and see what he says about the 2 trees close to the house that don't need felling. 

Thanks again,
Dan


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## TheJollyLogger (Jun 18, 2013)

mountainsco said:


> A fire wiped out most of our area about 50 years ago. All of our trees are new growth, and most are under 100' tall. I've walked some of the places where a huge mansion was the place to go for the rich back years ago. I do have some stumps on my property that are about 3' diameter. Never really occurred to us to question. I like our trees alot and cutting some of them down is sad. We have 20 acres, and hundreds of trees including aspens.
> 
> I'm handy with a chainsaw means, I've cut all sorts of lumber for the stove on the ground. I understand the theory of cutting down a tree quite well. I think I'll get a fire guy out here and see what he says about the 2 trees close to the house that don't need felling.
> 
> ...



Good. I did a lot of fire mitigation in Douglas County after the Hayman fire, and we worked a lot with the local fire districts. Most departments are more than happy to come out and give you an assessment. They love the trees too, and they can give you a very good plan to keep your new house safe without living in a desert. Not to mention, if push comes to shove, they do remember the homeowners that cared enough to ask when it comes to setting up their defense plan, if a fire should happen. Good luck, Jeff


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## old CB (Jun 30, 2013)

I'm here in Colorado, on the front range, where I cut trees for a living. I agree with other posters above: get a rope into the tree at a point about 2/3 of its height. You'll need rope equal to the task, of course, but the Ponderosas generally balance themselves well so you won't need a mighty pulling force. Use the throwline to get your rope up there. Tie in with a running bowline (or get the rope over a strong limb, run it straight down the trunk, and tie off w/ a timber hitch which anchors you just fine. You can pull the tree over w/ a vehicle, but I prefer to find another tree roughly in the direction of fall, it does not have to be directly inline, and anchor to that tree with a chain and pull the tree over with a come-along. Get the come-along and rope tensioned good--you can see the treetop begin to ease in your direction--then make your facecut, followed by the backcut until you have a good hinge (for which you want about 10% of the diameter). At this point you'll likely see the saw kerf of the backcut begin to open a little and the top of the tree begin to edge toward the lay (unless you're fighting too thick a hinge). Go back to your come-along--WALKING AROUND, NOT THRU, WHERE THE TREE WILL FALL--and pull the tree over. And like the other guy(s) said, do the same on another tree or two first to get comfortable with technique--cutting Pondys is like cutting the same tree day after day. If you can build a house you can pull those trees over without a sweat.


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## mountainsco (Jul 1, 2013)

Felling trees strikes me as extremely dangerous, and every tree does something unexpected. I've decided to hire a pro to do it next year. I really do understand the technique and the forces, but I'd rather pay someone with experience to do it.

I don't intend to become an arborist, I just have a couple trees that need to be gone. I read somewhere that tree-cutting was one of the most dangerous jobs there are, and rethought my plan. While my plan of scaffolding I believe is sound with the small trees I'm dealing with, it's just not worth the time really.

On a side note... Who would have thought that you guys have one of the funniest humor forums I've ever read? I've been reading about 20 jokes a day and it's a great way to wake up with my coffee before heading out. I'm on page 24, and there are 135 more to go. You guys rock!

Thanks!


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## sgreanbeans (Jul 2, 2013)

mountainsco said:


> Felling trees strikes me as extremely dangerous, and every tree does something unexpected. I've decided to hire a pro to do it next year. I really do understand the technique and the forces, but I'd rather pay someone with experience to do it.
> 
> Thanks!



Good move


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## TheJollyLogger (Jul 2, 2013)

mountainsco said:


> Felling trees strikes me as extremely dangerous, and every tree does something unexpected. I've decided to hire a pro to do it next year. I really do understand the technique and the forces, but I'd rather pay someone with experience to do it.
> 
> I don't intend to become an arborist, I just have a couple trees that need to be gone. I read somewhere that tree-cutting was one of the most dangerous jobs there are, and rethought my plan. While my plan of scaffolding I believe is sound with the small trees I'm dealing with, it's just not worth the time really.
> 
> ...



I thought everyone knew tree guys were good looking, smart and witty. And yes, unfortunately I think last year we passed up the fishermen to take the number one spot on OSHA's list. One of our goals on this site is to keep sharing information and training to lose that dubious honor. The unfortunate fact is that almost all accidents I've seen were preventable with training. Good on ya for getting a pro in there, and you might be surprised how inexpensive it would be if you just have em drop em for you, and then you clean up.

Hey CB, do you know anyone that's going to be working the Black Forest fire clean up? Is FEMA going to be handling haul off? My buddy and I were thinking about coming out. Unfortunately, we have quite a lot of expertise after our fire.


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## old CB (Jul 2, 2013)

No, I don't know a thing about the Black Forest deal. I was out of state camping during that mess, so I didn't even keep up with the news. (My wife was home part of the time, nervous as could be with 95 degrees plus and 11% humidity.) We're uphill from Boulder and thankfully have had no wildfire action yet this season.

We moved here in Oct. 2010, just a few weeks after the Fourmile fire, which was Colorado's most destructive fire at the time (now we get a new one of those each season)--6,000 acres, 169 homes lost. I'm just over the hill from Fourmile Canyon, our home was part of the evacuation area. Most of my work is fire mitigation, creating defensible space around homes, and I've done several jobs of removing trees killed in the Fourmile fire. We're still cleaning up from that biotch. Was running 2 1/2-yr-old burnt dead slash thru the chipper in May--talk about nasty work. Yeah, in Texas I bet you've had your share of that in recent past.


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## Redbug (Jul 2, 2013)

Why can't Dan do the normal wedge cutout and back cut...then knock in wedges to fell that tree? That's the way I would do it. You can do a really slow controlled fall with several wedges hit a little at a time.


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## TheJollyLogger (Jul 2, 2013)

old CB said:


> No, I don't know a thing about the Black Forest deal. I was out of state camping during that mess, so I didn't even keep up with the news. (My wife was home part of the time, nervous as could be with 95 degrees plus and 11% humidity.) We're uphill from Boulder and thankfully have had no wildfire action yet this season.
> 
> We moved here in Oct. 2010, just a few weeks after the Fourmile fire, which was Colorado's most destructive fire at the time (now we get a new one of those each season)--6,000 acres, 169 homes lost. I'm just over the hill from Fourmile Canyon, our home was part of the evacuation area. Most of my work is fire mitigation, creating defensible space around homes, and I've done several jobs of removing trees killed in the Fourmile fire. We're still cleaning up from that biotch. Was running 2 1/2-yr-old burnt dead slash thru the chipper in May--talk about nasty work. Yeah, in Texas I bet you've had your share of that in recent past.



Yeah, look up the Bastrop complex fire, we lost 1300 homes. Talk about a mess.What tue fire didn't get, the beetles got the following year. They love stressed trees.


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## StrataTree (Jul 3, 2013)

"I've decided to hire a pro to do it next year"...

The smartest thing ever posted on AS!

You, kind sir, are very wise. And I bet you could drop 'em just fine! But your genius outweighs your ego... A rare and precious trait!


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## mountainsco (Jul 3, 2013)

StrataTree said:


> "I've decided to hire a pro to do it next year"...
> 
> The smartest thing ever posted on AS!
> 
> You, kind sir, are very wise. And I bet you could drop 'em just fine! But your genius outweighs your ego... A rare and precious trait!



I stumbled across 500 bucks the other day. Actually I paid off my tractor early. I'm looking for a person to cut down 3 trees in the Guffey area of Colorado. Job offer. I'll have my tractor ready to pull. Just need a guy to cut them. Probably an hour's work. Holler if you are in the area and want a simple job. Just be a professional. 

Dan


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## TheJollyLogger (Jul 3, 2013)

*u*



mountainsco said:


> I stumbled across 500 bucks the other day. Actually I paid off my tractor early. I'm looking for a person to cut down 3 trees in the Guffey area of Colorado. Job offer. I'll have my tractor ready to pull. Just need a guy to cut them. Probably an hour's work. Holler if you are in the area and want a simple job. Just be a professional.
> 
> Dan



Very nice and generous offer, Dan, and if I was closer I'd do it just for a chance to pull some more pike out of Spinney. But with a little coaching, you can handle those little guys just fine. Send a few more pics and we can talk ya through it.


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## NEKS Tree Svc (Jul 8, 2013)

*There is already a rope in that tree*



ropensaddle said:


> Ok sanford show me a logger who can fall this one no rigging and not destroy home :hmm3grin2orange:



BUT,,,,a proper face and back cut can be made just above were that limb from the other tree is on that one to be dropped. Its about 10 ft up from the top of the roof, healthy wood visible from the branches that were cut. A 180 is possible if you wedge it, leave enough hinge, then take off like your stealin the wood with a truck (rope tied to truck). No way any limb even brushes the house. Go ahead, get the popcorn


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