# Amsoil in your chainsaw?



## StihlyinEly (Oct 20, 2009)

I switched over to Amsoil in all my two-strokes several years ago, intending to do the same with my Stihls. But then I got a coupla shrink-wrapped bricks of Stihl oil for dirt cheap on clearance and will probably use it up by next summer and would switch to Amsoil Saber then.

Anyone running Saber in their saws and, if so, at what concentration and with what results?

I'm using Saber in my main boat outboard (100:1), kicker motor (75:1) and ice augers (75:1). I also use the Amsoil HP injector oil in my sleds. I've been very happy with decreased smoke as well as apparent increases in engine performance.

Thoughts on chainsaw applications for Saber?


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## clearance (Oct 20, 2009)

If I see another freakin oil thread.............


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## wood4heat (Oct 20, 2009)

What kind of :censored: oil had you been running that you noticed a decrease in smoke and increase in performance? A better question, what ratio were you mixing it at?

None of my two strokes smoke, maybe for a second right when I start them. :monkey:


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## StihlyinEly (Oct 20, 2009)

clearance, I did a search and couldn't find anything on point in past oil threads, so figured I'd post the question. Hope you don't lose your mind over it. Being new to this site, it's quite possible I missed a thread that discussed the pros and cons of Amsoil in chainsaws, and I'll happily end your pain and click on a link if someone will provide one. 

wood4heat, outboards smoke. Ice augers smoke. Chainsaws smoke (though not as much as some other two-stroke motors). Amsoil cuts down on smoke partly because it's run leaner than the 50:1 typical for most outboard applications and most conventional oils. I ran my augers at 32:1 because that was manufacturer specs, and they always smoked (well, it's always cold weather when you're running an ice auger). I run my Stihls at manufacturer specs, too, and especially in cold weather I see exhaust smoke. The sleds are oil injected, so that's a consistent 50:1 no matter which oil is used, but in that application Amsoil smokes less at 50:1 than conventional oils at the same proportion. 

And I've never run junk two-cycle oil in any of my machines. The outboards got OMC premium oil before I switched. The saws, which are Stihls, get high performance Stihl oil. The augers only ever got top-quality oils before conversion as well.

I'll be converting to Amsoil next summer one way or another. I just wanted to hear others' perspectives in their experiences with synthetics in chainsaws.


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## kevin j (Oct 20, 2009)

Amsoil Sabre Prof here. half price of stihl dino, can't find Stihl ultra close by.

50:1 saws blowers 60:1 vintage air cooled trials mc, 80:1 water cooled modern trials mc



or Gary Goo, but hard to find


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## oneoldbanjo (Oct 20, 2009)

The Amsoil Saber debate has been very a very hot topic on this site. One way to find the threads is to click on my user site and look at the threads that I have been involved in.....there have been several on Saber.

I switched to Saber mixed at 100:1 in my trials motorcycle when I was getting too much oil in the exhaust when mixing Mobil 2T at 80:1. The Saber did help make the bike run cleaner. Trials motorcycles run at low speeds most of the time......or atleast they do when I am riding them. I do not run my chainsaws at these low oil ratios.

I have been using my weedwacker and leaf blower with Saber mixed at 100:1 and they are doing fine - I am not yet brave enough to try that mix in my Stihl saws yet. I am running the Mobil 2T at 50:1 in my chainsaws and I have enough oil to last for years.

Amsoil Saber is a good oil in my opinion.....and it has a loyal following. There are also a lot of people that would never use it. My own opinion is that the Saber is more concentrated and can be mixed at much higher ratios than more conventional synthetics. If Amsoil were to add some solvent and thin the oil out a bit and recommend it to be mixed at 50:1 - I bet more people would be willing to try it.


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## Maplekid (Oct 20, 2009)

In the spring I swiched I we to amsoil synthedic mixing oil and mix it 100:1 for everything. I also started using amsoil for other things but that's for another thread sometime. It is a better oil. My .2 cent


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## HUSKYMAN (Oct 20, 2009)

300:1 sure would reduce your smoke output


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## StihlyinEly (Oct 20, 2009)

Thanks, banjo. That's the kind of thing I was looking for. Amsoil gets to be a hot topic on most any thread discussing synthetic vs conventional motor oils. Considering how happy I've been with it in all my other motors, I don't have any qualms about switching to it next summer with the Stihls.

However, your comment about it being so concentrated makes me wonder if it'll mix well at 50:1 for the Stihls, which is what I'd planned on running. Any thoughts on that?

Edited: I checked out some of those previous Amsoil threads and it looks like I did my search here when I should have done it in equipment-chainsaws. Sorry, didn't see that forum at all in the directory and didn't know it existed until I looked through some old threads banjo was involved in. I'll be running Amsoil Saber in my Stihls next summer at 80:1. Thanks again for helping instead of rolling your eyes, banjo. I'd probably not run Saber lean in modded or high performance applications, but my saws are stock saws and likely always will be.


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## flotek (Oct 20, 2009)

i can speak with authortiy on this subject as I build high performance 2 stroke engines for atvs sleds and dirtbikes my company is called flotek performance ,over the years i have seen first hand the damage amsoil (mostly dominator)does (esp,crank bearings ),dont kid yourself by reading the back of a bottle ,more oil always ~equals less friction(a 2stroke losses 30% of its potential power by friction) more oil makes more power as well as extends relibility the best premix oil i have found is klotz supertechnaplate at 32-1 on a dyno and on the track it will make the most power and contains castor which offers superior protection at high rpms


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## Adirondack (Oct 20, 2009)

I tried Amsoil synthetic oil in my car and I was really impressed. As soon as I started my car much of the engine noise quite. That just told me it cut down on friction. 

I have tried the Sabre and I like it. If you look at their oils in general they do not burn at high temps. My theory is that in their two cycle the oil does not burn. Hince the decrease in smoke. My thought is there is more oil left to lubercate the engine parts. Downside is you have to retune your chainsaw for better performance because the oil is not burning. I did have to retune my saw. I could not say if I noticed any performance difference but it ran just fine. I used the little packets and mixed 75:1. I think that was the mix. I will use this oil again.


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## StihlyinEly (Oct 20, 2009)

Thanks, Adirondack. I've never had to retune any of the motors I've converted from conventional to Amsoil. We'll see if I need to do that to my saws. What did you have to do for the retune?


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## 05mxdiesel (Oct 20, 2009)

Been running sabre in my husky at 70:1. I agree with most that more oil equals longer service life and a cooler running motor, but the it doesn't make a differance if I drop it to 50:1. My leaf blower and weed wackers like the leaner ratio better as well. I really like the bar and chain lube, but my saw goes through it like water


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## jtimm (Oct 20, 2009)

I've been running Amsoil Sabre in my Stihl chainsaws, and ice auger for about 5 years. I run them both on the same mix of 80-1 to 100-1 and have had no problems whatsoever. Very little smoke, and good running machines. I've got some Stihl oil that just sits on the shelf, and it probably will for a LONG time!


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## Adirondack (Oct 20, 2009)

StihlyinEly said:


> Thanks, Adirondack. I've never had to retune any of the motors I've converted from conventional to Amsoil. We'll see if I need to do that to my saws. What did you have to do for the retune?



I guess the only true way to be really sure I actually "had" to retune my saw was if I had a tach and measured the WOT rpms before and after the oil change. I did not do that. 
I can not remember why I felt the need to retune after I mixed up the amsoil. I think there was some hesitation on the trigger. I remember going through the paces with the L adjustment. When I finished tuning the L adjustment it seemed to rev up just as good as on the dolmar oil. 
I will pay much better attention when I change back to amsoil again. I just have a lot of dolmar oil to use up so I am mixing every other tank with amsoil. I also plan to buy a tach soon.


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## grandpatractor (Oct 20, 2009)

I run Sabre in my *** at 50-1. Been working real good. Don't notice any smoke. 
I'm happy with it.


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## porsche965 (Oct 23, 2009)

*Amsoil Products*

First I don't sell or work for Amsoil.

For over 10 years I ran Amsoil Diesel oil in Mack, Cummins, and Detroit diesels in my fleet. No problems, cold starts much easier, mileage and consumption improved.

Have used their oils in Porsche engines on the race track, no engine problems whatsoever.

Use Amsoil in all my gas vehicles for many years, no problems.

Use their HP Injector Oil in the Saltwater Merc, better performance, less smoke, better mileage.

Used for approx. 15 years their Sabre product in my Chainsaws from 30cc to the mighty 076, 111cc, and weedeaters/blowers, no problem, and never have had a fouled plug. I mix at 64:1 have have mixed at 80:1 but just feel better at 64:1. (I am very particular with equipment and use Marine Fuel, no ethanol, in all two stroke applications @89 octane.) 

This has just been my experience with a company that makes more than just two stroke oil, and I have run it in engines with a replacement cost of over $30,000 (Porsche) let alone a $800 Stihl like my 066.

All that being said, I believe that the quality of fuel, and careful mixing of ANY good quality oil will serve the end user in success. Couple that with the proper tuning with a tachometer and you have great performance. It is often the carelessness of the user that brings the mechanical failure more than anything. 

In summing up, the quality people on this site, I have learned more about chainsaws than from any other source, of which I'm grateful to be a part of ArboristSite. My thanks to you all.

John


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## Squirrel's Drey (Oct 23, 2009)

50:1 Dominator in the two-strokes, not too happy with the smoke. Felt I had a better mix with the Echo Pro-Blend.
Running Formula 4-Stroke 10W-30/SAE-30 Synthetic in the 4-cycle equipment and very pleased indeed.


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## StihlyinEly (Oct 23, 2009)

Squirrel's Drey said:


> 50:1 Dominator in the two-strokes, not too happy with the smoke. Felt I had a better mix with the Echo Pro-Blend.
> Running Formula 4-Stroke 10W-30/SAE-30 Synthetic in the 4-cycle equipment and very pleased indeed.



Are you running Dominator in your chainsaws?


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## Squirrel's Drey (Oct 23, 2009)

Yes.


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## StihlyinEly (Oct 23, 2009)

Squirrel's Drey said:


> Yes.



Amsoil lists Saber, not Dominator, for chainsaw use.


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## grandpatractor (Oct 23, 2009)

StihlyinEly said:


> Amsoil lists Saber, not Dominator, for chainsaw use.



:agree2:


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## Squirrel's Drey (Oct 24, 2009)

Not that I challenging anyone, but do you have a link.

http://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g1985.pdf

Listed as 'Very Good', under chainsaw column, I choose this as opposed to Saber because of the 100:1 ratio.
I think my smoking is due to Seafoam in my 4-cycle can before I prep the 2-cycle mix from the same can, make sense?

The 100:1 sounds like snake oil to me, did not want to risk the saw or other equipment that I run from the same can. I could be wrong - would not be the first time my fellow posters


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## TADD (Oct 24, 2009)

Used Amsoil products now for 7 years in all my applications. Do use the Saber at 50:1 which is 2.6 oz. to gallon. No excess smoke, clean plug, one gas can in barn for all 2-strokes, no confusion. Top notch products in my opinion.


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## Adirondack (Oct 24, 2009)

Squirrel's Drey said:


> Not that I challenging anyone, but do you have a link.
> 
> http://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g1985.pdf
> 
> ...



I am no expert but like you I had trouble with the 100:1 concept. I called Amsoil about it. My impression was that their oil had been tested and ran the best at that ratio. They said they had used it in Lawn boys at 300:1 and had no issues. They did not say this but my theory. 
Most oil in other Mfrs. mixes does burn a bit and adds to the combustion energy. I notice in their pro mo material their oil does not burn off at working temp. Well if it does not burn it would not smoke and more oil would be left to lubricate the engine. I wonder if this is correct? 
We are use to the 50:1 because more is being burned and less is left for lubrication. I use one packet to one gallon which is 75 or 85:1. No problems.


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## limelakephoto (Oct 24, 2009)

Just stick with good oil ! At the recommended ratio or perhaps a little richer. My thoughts on amsoil.... Very good oil, but alas .... there is better out there. I use many different oils. I like different things about each. Research the oil threads and you will see oh so many thoughts about oils and oil brands. Gary's posts on oils are very trust worthy.... he is perhaps "Thee Authority on oils". Myself I am an oil "junky" and blend my own oil in my garage. If you are having trouble deciding what brand to use, just pick a reputable brand and mix it at the proper ratio or richer. Your saws and gas equip will tell you what they like by the way they run and behave. Would I run AMSOIL at 100:1 in a saw that commands 50:1 ? No way in hell ! I don't doubt that it is good oil... But it isn't that good ! Maybe 70:1 tops. I have tried my poulan on about 90:1 echo oil and it still worked great. It smelled pretty hot after with no visible damage from about 5 liters mixed this way. I would also watch what your spark plug and exhaust port tell you. Myself i know AMSOIL would have an excuse why my saw broke using their oil at 100:1. Echo, Husky and Stihl would laugh my arse out the door when she broke at 100:1 or 75:1 Amsoil mix. If amsoil is so good how come my cars don't run well on 2.5 liters of amsoil instead of 5 ? Yep they will still run with half the oil. For how long who knows ! My opinion is if you run it at 100:1 and have no problems for years.... Bow down to who ever made your equipment for making something so tough ! Also if you change your mix you should re-tune your saw as well !


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## AIM (Oct 24, 2009)

Not to get off the Amsoil topic but has anyone ran Blendzal ultra in your saws? I ran out of Husky oil so I mixed up a batch of Blendzal at 40.1 and so far so good.


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## sbhooper (Oct 24, 2009)

I have run Amsoil in all motors for years. I ran it when there was only two options-100:1 or injector. I now run the Saber Professional in all of my 2-cycle applications. I have run it at 100:1 and 50:1. I have settled on 75:1 and all of my chainsaws run great on it. My 257 is 12 years old-much of which was on 100:1-and out of my own ignorance, I ran it too lean much of the time. The saw still cuts like crazy in spite of me. 

The guy that got me going as a dealer years ago knew a bike racer that ran the original 100:1 at 125:1 in his dirt bike and never touched the engine for an entire race season. 

It is exactly what it says it is and more.


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## flotek (Oct 24, 2009)

run an oil (klotz)that has clean burn technolgy of a synthetic but added protection of castor ..also a huge benefit castor has more btus than gas does it actually makes more power! ,just becuase yo u have ran amsoil for a decade without the saw blowing up or in your 79 gremlin doesnt mean its the best oil or that the saw is performing to its potential ,amsoil runs these high ratios becuase it has a very high flash point unlike the premium better oils on the market ,at low rpms it is not burned off efficeintly and gums up transfers and exhaust tracts also makes starting a bit harder and can run choppy till the rpms are up enough to burn it off the dome ..its known for their aggresive marketing (free oil giveaways) with automotive/truck applications and really comparing a 4 stroke engine to a 2 stroke does not apply in this conversation considering this is about premix oil ,you guys that are concerned about smoke need to know that oil choice is critical to the way a saw runs its about the only thing protecting your internal parts.dont be fooled more oil always makes more power ..its dyno proven and not just what feels~ stronger in your hand and makes less smoke.despite what some manufacturers claims ..its a fact to reduce internal friction will always increase power and reliability


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## streeter (Oct 24, 2009)

my 2 cents..... Amsoil is awesome for 4 stroke motors. If you want the best 2 stroke oil, go with blue marble.

http://www.bluemarbleoil.com/

I am no, WAY, involved!! with the company, I have only used the oil in my rc boat turning 14,500 rpm and was involved with the testing to let snowmobiles run in yellowstone park. This stuff let me get another 500 rpm!! to win a boat race while running 100;1 ratio. In my boat and snowmobile testing we had almost no oil residue and a complete burn.


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## saxman (Oct 25, 2009)

I have used Saber in my Lawn Boy mowers and other 2cycle equipment and I have and have been pleased. The Lawn Boy mowers would really smoke using the Lawn Boy oil at the rate suggested but only smoke a little with the Saber. I use Stihl Ultra in all my saws at 50:1, just what I feel most comfortable with, but I think Saber is fine and would do a good job. I just don't want to risk going into my Stihl dealer with a blown up MS660 after using Saber at 100:1 ratio, it might work but that is a heck of a gamble.

Steve


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## grandpatractor (Oct 25, 2009)

saxman said:


> I have used Saber in my Lawn Boy mowers and other 2cycle equipment and I have and have been pleased. The Lawn Boy mowers would really smoke using the Lawn Boy oil at the rate suggested but only smoke a little with the Saber. I use Stihl Ultra in all my saws at 50:1, just what I feel most comfortable with, but I think Saber is fine and would do a good job. I just don't want to risk going into my Stihl dealer with a blown up MS660 after using Saber at 100:1 ratio, it might work but that is a heck of a gamble.
> 
> Steve



I'm not comfortable with it a 100:1 either that is why I run it at 50:1.


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## AIM (Oct 25, 2009)

I gotta ask a dumb question. Why is one engine recommended to run 16.1 and another 50.1 . Always seemed to me that engines should be the same as far as lubricating needs go. But then again I've just never really understood this. My 2 stroke golf cart is oil injected so I have no real idea what it is running but I fill the oil resevoir up about a year and after many tanks of gas there is still plenty oil left.


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## wvlogger (Oct 25, 2009)

Oh gary


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## TADD (Oct 25, 2009)

flotek said:


> run an oil (klotz)that has clean burn technolgy of a synthetic but added protection of castor ..also a huge benefit castor has more btus than gas does it actually makes more power! ,just becuase yo u have ran amsoil for a decade without the saw blowing up or in your 79 gremlin doesnt mean its the best oil or that the saw is performing to its potential ,amsoil runs these high ratios becuase it has a very high flash point unlike the premium better oils on the market ,at low rpms it is not burned off efficeintly and gums up transfers and exhaust tracts also makes starting a bit harder and can run choppy till the rpms are up enough to burn it off the dome ..its known for their aggresive marketing (free oil giveaways) with automotive/truck applications and really comparing a 4 stroke engine to a 2 stroke does not apply in this conversation considering this is about premix oil ,you guys that are concerned about smoke need to know that oil choice is critical to the way a saw runs its about the only thing protecting your internal parts.dont be fooled more oil always makes more power ..its dyno proven and not just what feels~ stronger in your hand and makes less smoke.despite what some manufacturers claims ..its a fact to reduce internal friction will always increase power and reliability



Pretty much believe this whole thread has been about 2-stroke engines, have seen no mention of a 79' Gremlin...
Not sure about most here, but I am not worried about oil burn off in low rpm situations... I do not have a 2-stroke anything that does not run 90% of it's operating time at maximum rpm...not that I find any merit to this statement. Same as the day they were new no more than three pulls at full choke...then sputters...turn off choke ...one pull and in business.
Amsoil 40 years in the synthetic oil business before there was even a synthetic oil market...Pretty much created the premium better oil standard IMHO. Also this thread is like talking politics...


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## HARRY BARKER (Oct 25, 2009)

anyone wanna hear a blue marble story?


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## TADD (Oct 25, 2009)

If you have the time I'm interested in one...


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## streeter (Oct 25, 2009)

HARRY BARKER said:


> anyone wanna hear a blue marble story?



Sure.


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## HARRY BARKER (Oct 25, 2009)

ran BM in my jonsered since new...lots-o-firewood under its belt,then one day mixed a gallon of gas with the stihl oil....started saw,went about cutting,set the saw down...wouldnt idle....turned up idle....went about cutting....used the gallon of mix and went back to bluemarble...had to turn idle back down.


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## streeter (Oct 25, 2009)

HARRY BARKER said:


> ran BM in my jonsered since new...lots-o-firewood under its belt,then one day mixed a gallon of gas with the stihl oil....started saw,went about cutting,set the saw down...wouldnt idle....turned up idle....went about cutting....used the gallon of mix and went back to bluemarble...had to turn idle back down.



Nice! I just wish BM was easier to get:bang:

The stuff just plain works!


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## TADD (Oct 25, 2009)

Have not been a fan of using oils branded this way, not that I don't believe they meet spec's and do the job. It's just that whole contracted out to the real oil company with the best bid, and them working with a small profit margin, and the profit kick back to the company on the label. No real basis here... just seems open to lesser quality, or still top quality... just higher cost of the product due to the ability to suck in people sold on this being the only oil for their product.


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## huskystihl (Oct 27, 2009)

flotek said:


> run an oil (klotz)that has clean burn technolgy of a synthetic but added protection of castor ..also a huge benefit castor has more btus than gas does it actually makes more power! ,just becuase yo u have ran amsoil for a decade without the saw blowing up or in your 79 gremlin doesnt mean its the best oil or that the saw is performing to its potential ,amsoil runs these high ratios becuase it has a very high flash point unlike the premium better oils on the market ,at low rpms it is not burned off efficeintly and gums up transfers and exhaust tracts also makes starting a bit harder and can run choppy till the rpms are up enough to burn it off the dome ..its known for their aggresive marketing (free oil giveaways) with automotive/truck applications and really comparing a 4 stroke engine to a 2 stroke does not apply in this conversation considering this is about premix oil ,you guys that are concerned about smoke need to know that oil choice is critical to the way a saw runs its about the only thing protecting your internal parts.dont be fooled more oil always makes more power ..its dyno proven and not just what feels~ stronger in your hand and makes less smoke.despite what some manufacturers claims ..its a fact to reduce internal friction will always increase power and reliability



Sounds to me like your shop sells klotz. I appreciate the fact that you work in a performance shop or whatever it is, but I can tell ya that I run saws for hours a day. I'm not here to say that amsoils the greatest thing on earth or that klotz or stihl isn't but I can tell ya that my t- handle sees more hours in a week than most guys saw will see all year. My last new saws were ran from day one on sabre at 75/1 as well as the backups and the backups to them. I switched from ultra due to carbon issues mainly spark arrestors cloggin way before their time as well as pistons carbed up on new saws. Like many others 100/1 scares the heck out of me but my saws have seen some 90 deg 10 hr days where the saws only stopped to refuel with no issues. I switched to amsoil simply because i've ran it in my wifes volvo from day 1,she's a traveling sales rep. I switched to amsoil at that time because are mechanic couldn't keep up on oil changes and recomended it for 25,000 miles between them. That was 235'000 miles ago. I figure if thats not proof in the pudding I don't know what is. I'm sure klotz is good oil but most auto parts stores would look at you like you had an arm growing out of your head if you asked for klotz, because like 99% of the public they've never heard of it. I would like to add that if there was to be a problem in a saw I would have seen it in one hot july day let alone more than.


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## clutch25 (Oct 27, 2009)

I run Saber Pro in my saws, blowers, weedeaters, mowers and snowblower. No problems at all but I run it at 50:1...no way would I run any oil at 100:1 premix. Use the Interceptor in my sled for the last couple of years too.

Floteck....going on about castor oil. It has good properties for a two stroke lube, but it doesn't burn off as clean as you think...lots of gums and comes out of pre mix suspension at lower temps. With that said, I don't have experience with the Klotz oil you talk about...


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## huskystihl (Oct 27, 2009)

I would like to also add to my previous post that I actually seen an increase in engine performance simply because of the motor running cleaner. I don't know where you get more oil= more power? I can make a new saw run pretty weak at 10/1 versus 50/1. Sorry but that statement doesn't ring true, theres a fine line between running rich and bluhhh.


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## swyman (Oct 28, 2009)

I use Amsoil series 2000 2 stroke racing oil. Was a Klotz fan for years till a co-worker brought in a piston from his son's dirtbike from a season of racing. No top of the piston was clean and on the underside there was oil residue sticking to the bottom of the piston in as bright of red as what's in the container before use. This was after a season of racing motocross every weekend, and they would usually do the ironman on Sunday. Made a believer out of me, have been running it in all my 2 strokes. 32:1 in my Stihl 460 with no smoke. No I am not a dealer or have any ties to Amsoil.


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## lngbeard (Oct 28, 2009)

I have a point that seems to have been missed. Oil in the gas provides the lubricant. The gas itself is the coolant. More oil in the gas retains more heat. I run the leanest (gas/oil not air/fuel) mix I can without the plug turning white. Never had a fuel related failure. More oil does not equal better engine performance, just adds excess heat. As long as the oil wedge is maintained between metal parts any more oil is waste.


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## swyman (Oct 28, 2009)

lngbeard said:


> I have a point that seems to have been missed. Oil in the gas provides the lubricant. The gas itself is the coolant. More oil in the gas retains more heat. I run the leanest (gas/oil not air/fuel) mix I can without the plug turning white. Never had a fuel related failure. More oil does not equal better engine performance, just adds excess heat. As long as the oil wedge is maintained between metal parts any more oil is waste.



Never thought of it like that but you make sense. I was running that rich because I thought it would lubricate better and keep it cooler> HMMM.


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## ray benson (Oct 28, 2009)

flotek said:


> i can speak with authortiy on this subject as I build high performance 2 stroke engines for atvs sleds and dirtbikes my company is called flotek performance ,over the years i have seen first hand the damage amsoil (mostly dominator)does (esp,crank bearings ),dont kid yourself by reading the back of a bottle ,more oil always ~equals less friction(a 2stroke losses 30% of its potential power by friction) more oil makes more power as well as extends relibility the best premix oil i have found is klotz supertechnaplate at 32-1 on a dyno and on the track it will make the most power and contains castor which offers superior protection at high rpms



More Oil-More PowerLots more info out there, just need to look.
http://www.bridgestonemotorcycle.com/documents/oilpremix6.pdf
http://dirtbike.off-road.com/dirtbike/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=400487


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## porsche965 (Oct 28, 2009)

Great links, sheds a new light on mixes.


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## dingeryote (Oct 28, 2009)

Just for ####s and giggles, I am gonna mix up some classic Castor bean oil 2-stroke mix at 32-1 and run it in my 455 for a weekend.

I for one am sick of all the hype and nonsense.

Castor oil is Organic and a renewable resource. Global climate change started about the same time folks switched to non castor oil 2 stroke mix...coincidence? Nope!!! 

Burn the Bean oil....it's what the planet craves.


Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## huskystihl (Oct 29, 2009)

swyman said:


> Never thought of it like that but you make sense. I was running that rich because I thought it would lubricate better and keep it cooler> HMMM.



Nope not the case at all. Sorry But the I need to mix the fuel at 32//1 is old timer thinking. Just like any old time mechanic will tell you that no motor oil will last 25,000 miles. My wifes dad is just the type i'm talking about but then I gave him the results from an oil analysis that a lab did on my powerstroke at 20k that said I should try getting 30k out of it. Even my old time stihl shop stresses not overmixing. He even sells and very much believes in opti2 which is a 100/1 mix. Yhe more oil more power thing is down right not the case. My truck calls for 14 qts so I guess 18 qts will make it run better?


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## porsche965 (Oct 29, 2009)

Agree.


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## ray benson (Oct 29, 2009)

huskystihl said:


> Nope not the case at all. Sorry But the I need to mix the fuel at 32//1 is old timer thinking. Just like any old time mechanic will tell you that no motor oil will last 25,000 miles. My wifes dad is just the type i'm talking about but then I gave him the results from an oil analysis that a lab did on my powerstroke at 20k that said I should try getting 30k out of it. Even my old time stihl shop stresses not overmixing. He even sells and very much believes in opti2 which is a 100/1 mix. Yhe more oil more power thing is down right not the case. My truck calls for 14 qts so I guess 18 qts will make it run better?


2 stroke is different than 4 stroke.

Read post 48. It is a proven fact not baseless testimonials.


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## oneoldbanjo (Oct 29, 2009)

ray benson said:


> 2 stroke is different than 4 stroke.
> 
> Read post 48. It is a proven fact not baseless testimonials.



Well I read the 2 articles in Post 48....and they were informative. I am not sure how much of that relates to chainsaw use. The PE250 was supposed to be run with a 20:1 mix......our chainsaws at 50:1. They used Bean Oil.....I use synthetic. The PE 250 engine was not being run at full load and full throttle on the dyno as it is not made for sustained full throttle use/and the chainsaws are made to be run continously at full throttle. The PE250 has 4-5 times the displacement of our chainsaw, trimmer and leaf blowers.......the results could very well be different in our applications.

One thing I did find interesting is this statement from the second article:

"One of the things you should do, is run high octane gas with any two-stroke mix. When all of the two strokes (the old days) were developed, they all used Castrol petroleum oil at a 20:1 ratio and found that 92 octane gas had the octane reduced to 72 with presence of that much oil. Modern oils won’t affect the fuel quite as much, but if you started with 86 or 87 octane regular fuel, you can see where you’ll end with a very low octane mix."


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## ray benson (Oct 29, 2009)

oneoldbanjo said:


> Well I read the 2 articles in Post 48....and they were informative. I am not sure how much of that relates to chainsaw use.
> 
> One thing I did find interesting is this statement from the second article:
> 
> "One of the things you should do, is run high octane gas with any two-stroke mix. When all of the two strokes (the old days) were developed, they all used Castrol petroleum oil at a 20:1 ratio and found that 92 octane gas had the octane reduced to 72 with presence of that much oil. Modern oils won’t affect the fuel quite as much, but if you started with 86 or 87 octane regular fuel, you can see where you’ll end with a very low octane mix."



Good point.


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## bullittman281 (Nov 7, 2009)

Ok guys I can't take the amsoil BS any more. I'm sure is a good oil but lets use some common sense here. Just to point out an example my current fuel mix is a synthetic, TC rate, Motul scooter oil mixed heavier than 32:1 Probably a lot heavier. (I'm trying to get rid of it.) Normally I run Bel-Ray in everything. Once I get the carb Dialed for the days conditions and altitude the saw DOES NOT SMOKE!! I used to work for the municipal parks department and I mixed the fuel for the leaf blowers at 8:1 or heavier because we had crap oil and I could. once underway they too DID NOT smoke. The spark plugs did not fowl. The spark arrester survived just fine too. In all likeliness if a a stoke smokes the mixture is too rich, and if it does happen to smoke a bit WHO CARES? Run some oil in there and enjoy top ends that give long service lives.

Lets talk Amsoil economics. Why are we mixing 100:1 or going 25K on an oil change? It certainly isn't for longevity is it? It certainly isn't for power is it? If less oil made more power then 200:1 would be better yet and no oil at all would be king-daddy. It must be because the oil cost too much? Even a low-cost, quality chain saw cost more than 200$. Will you save enough $$$ mixing 100:1 to off set repairs or buying another saw? Probably not. Another example. The engine in my pickup would cost me $6000 or more to R&R. Just for parts and machine work. There is NO WAY I'm gonna run my oil beyond manufacture intervals. Period. Don't be a cheapskate and dump some oil in your fuel. Your piston will thank you.

Bullittman


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## oneoldbanjo (Nov 7, 2009)

bullittman281 said:


> Ok guys I can't take the amsoil BS any more. I'm sure is a good oil but lets use some common sense here. Just to point out an example my current fuel mix is a synthetic, TC rate, Motul scooter oil mixed heavier than 32:1 Probably a lot heavier. (I'm trying to get rid of it.) Normally I run Bel-Ray in everything. Once I get the carb Dialed for the days conditions and altitude the saw DOES NOT SMOKE!! I used to work for the municipal parks department and I mixed the fuel for the leaf blowers at 8:1 or heavier because we had crap oil and I could. once underway they too DID NOT smoke. The spark plugs did not fowl. The spark arrester survived just fine too. In all likeliness if a a stoke smokes the mixture is too rich, and if it does happen to smoke a bit WHO CARES? Run some oil in there and enjoy top ends that give long service lives.
> 
> Lets talk Amsoil economics. Why are we mixing 100:1 or going 25K on an oil change? It certainly isn't for longevity is it? It certainly isn't for power is it? If less oil made more power then 200:1 would be better yet and no oil at all would be king-daddy. It must be because the oil cost too much? Even a low-cost, quality chain saw cost more than 200$. Will you save enough $$$ mixing 100:1 to off set repairs or buying another saw? Probably not. Another example. The engine in my pickup would cost me $6000 or more to R&R. Just for parts and machine work. There is NO WAY I'm gonna run my oil beyond manufacture intervals. Period. Don't be a cheapskate and dump some oil in your fuel. Your piston will thank you.
> 
> Bullittman



Thank you for your opinion.......I don't agree with most of it. If you have never used Amsoil Saber......you really have no basis to comment on it. No one....even Amsoil........ has required you to run it at 100:1 and they suggest other mix ratios are fine. I use Amsil Saber and it is a great oil. I started to use it in my trials motorcycle mixed at 100:1 when the other oil I was using at 80:1 was oozing too much unburned oil out the exhaust. I called the national importer of the motorcycle and he is a 5 time national champion and he said they had run Amsoil Saber at mixtures of 125:1 with no problems (Trials bikes are low revving and water cooled). I ran the Saber at 100:1 in my trials bike and it ran much cleaner - and I have Poulan Leaf Blower that I am not that fond of and I started using the 100:1 Saber mix in it just out of curiosity. The leaf blower has been using the 100:1 Saber mix for 2 years now and runs great and I started using this same mix in my Kawasaki and Stihl string trimmers and they are both running great as well. For my chainsaws I am stilll using a 50:1 mix......and will probably continue to do that until I learn something different.

I honestly believe that there is nothing magical about Amsoil Saber - except that I belive it is made with a lot higher concentration of lubricant and less solvent to thin the oil out. The Saber oil is only made for "pre-mix" applications and it is too thick for injector systems. The extra thickness of the oil over the Mobil 2T that I had been using became obvious the first time I poured some out in my measuring cup - it is much heavier than other 2 cycle oils I have used. If Amsoil added solvent and thinned the mixture out and recommended you use it at 50:1 - I am sure it would be far less controversial.

As to the cost of oil - I really don't think anyone here is using Amsoil Saber in order to save money - those of us that use it just really like it and think it is a very good oil at whatever ratio we choose to mix at. (I don't use Amsoil in my cars and won't comment on extended oil change intervals). It is however surprising to me how much cost the oil does add to the cost of "mix" for a 2 cycle. Currently a gallon of premium in this area is $ 2.78 ($0.70 a quart) and a quart of good synthetic oil is about $ 9.00. If you mix 50 quarts of gas ($ 35.00) with a quart of oil ($ 9.00) the cost of mix is $ 44.00 or about $ 0.88 a quart....which is $ 3.52 a gallon! If you mixed at 100:1 the cost would be $ 0.79 a quart of mix...which is really only $ 0.09 a quart savings and is not significant. 

Those of us that have used Amsoil Saber don't consider that this is Amsoil BS......Amsoil Saber is not for everyone and you obviously have your own opinion. I will however point out that no one has ever posted anything negative about Amsoil Saber on this site that has ever used it. No one has ever had an engine failure or problem that has ever used the oil - the only negative comments have come from those who have never tried it. Prior to my using the Amsoil Saber in my motorcycle I agreed that running at a 100:1 mix was crazy....and some of my early posts on this site showed my ignorance on this subject. Now that I have used Amsoil Saber I am convinced that it is a quality product and can be used safely at 100:1 for extended periods in some equipment.

I do agree with you that most engine problems on this site (excess smoke, oil fouling, carbon deposits, etc) are probably caused by too rich of fuel/air mixtures more than oil mix issues - and I also believe that most engine seizures are not oil related and are caused by too lean of fuel/air mixtures that are caused by air leaks, leaky fuel lines, old gas, etc. Most modern oils mixed at "normal" ratios will allow an engine to run for a very long time.

Go ahead....buy some Amsoil Saber and try it......you might change your opinion!!!!!


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## porsche965 (Nov 7, 2009)

:agree2:


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## bullittman281 (Nov 7, 2009)

Hey guys. I'm sure Amsoil makes a fine product. I never claimed they didn't. I just think their marketing claims are ludicrous. Why you would want to starve an engine of oil is beyond me. This includes extended oil change intervals. I generally buy my cars after somebody had them on the extended drain plan. I buy cheap cause they need a motor. They probably ran the cheapest oil too but even if an oil stays in grade and the additives don't get all used up there is still gonna be more trash floating around in the oil the longer it is used. Filters cannot catch everything. Like I've said oil is cheap compared to rebuilds. It is your stuff though so have at it.


Bullittman


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## porsche965 (Nov 7, 2009)

???? Still waiting for an engine to meet Engine Armegedon! 19 years of Mack Trucks with Amsoil, extended oil changes. Racing Porsche engines double the life of oil using Amsoil. Boats, Four Wheelers, Jeeps, Pickup trucks, small inexpensive engines like Stihl and Husky Chainsaw engines, not ONE, NOT ONE engine loss. I better head to Vegas, the luck just keeps on coming with Amsoil!! If I wear an Amsoil shirt I bet I could break the house!! LOL!! 

I have put my beliefs to the test with expensive engines, not just $1000 chainsaws and the stuff has worked for me for over 30 years.

I will say that I do take Amsoils recommendation and run a lower ratio of 64:1 instead of 100:1 in my chainsaws. Just more added protection in my opinion. To put this ratio in comparison to Stihl Ultra I suppose it would be like running Ultra 32:1 or so. Just my opinion. 

Don't know what else to say about Sythentic Oil but it is better. If it wasn't Stihl would not have finally came out with it.


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## VINIFIREWOOD (Nov 11, 2009)

StihlyinEly said:


> I switched over to Amsoil in all my two-strokes several years ago, intending to do the same with my Stihls. But then I got a coupla shrink-wrapped bricks of Stihl oil for dirt cheap on clearance and will probably use it up by next summer and would switch to Amsoil Saber then.
> 
> Anyone running Saber in their saws and, if so, at what concentration and with what results?
> 
> ...



I'm a dealer and run it in everything I own. I mix one can of fuel at 75:1 and that goes in all my premix equipment, saws, trimmer, ice auger etc, new or old, Zero issues. 
With all the emissions regs coming into play in the saw world, I would bet if the saw manufacturers would require a full syn oil and lean out the oil mix ratio, they could meat the new standards without cats and strats or god forbid four strokes


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## porsche965 (Nov 11, 2009)

:agree2:


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## sbhooper (Nov 11, 2009)

Bullitman.

Amsoil info is not BS. It has proven out time and again by many people with many different applications. I have run lots of 100:1 in my chainsaws and it is great. I currently run it around 75:1 just because. The same mix goes into weedeaters etc.

I change my vehicle oil once a year (6-15,000 miles depending on the vehicle). The oil saves your engine, saves the environment by extended oil changes(read that as less used oil), and saves money. YES I said it saves money. Every vehicle that I have completely switched to Amsoil (trans, diffs, and engine) have gotten at least 2 percent better fuel economy. I had one pickup go from 18 mpg to 25 mpg when we did a complete changeover. 

As I have said many times, if you aren't willing to try it, fine, but don't badmouth something as being BS if you are not willing to try it.


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## Rickochet (Dec 12, 2009)

Synthetic oil certainly has changed the old paradigms that old schoolers live by. I was some what skeptical with synthetics until we began using them in Worthington High Pressure 3,700 psi air compressors for circuit breakers for a major utility company. The dinosaur oil would cake the valves with carbon in less than 50 hours of run time. When we swapped to a synthetic oil we could go 2,000 hours before servicing the valves and even then--NO CARBON! 

The synthetic oil does not form hard carbon deposits like dino oils. It has made a believer out of me. When we disassemble a compressor for routine maintenance, the entire unit is clean and wear is minimal, especially when compared to foreign oil lubricated compressors.

After I saw what synthetics could do to improve the high temperature, high pressures of these old work horse compressors, I began using synthetics in all of my equipment from trimmers to my high mileage GMC. I had to replace my intake manifold gasket on my '03 Pontiac Grand Prix, and upon disassembly, the engine looked like it had just come from the factory. It was so clean and absolutely sludge free.

So in a 2 stroke application there is no carbon build up what so ever. I am sold on the synthetics--- using Sabre at 75:1 works for me and all my 2 strokers. You might give it a try---- you just may like it!

Plus, we are reducing our dependence on the Middle East oil barons! Long live the USA!!!!


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## streeter (Dec 12, 2009)

LMAO

I have found sooo many benefits to running synthetics. Hell, I switched over alot of people to synthetics and they thanked me.

I look at it this way. The people that can not believe it or are to closed minded to see the benefits of running quality products, just do NOT desirve my time. They are the dinosaurs that have gotten it BEAT in there head that this way is normal.

For me.......I can see and have seen the benefits of running quality oil. So far for me.

1. 1998 Kia sportage....over 220k. Drive train great, died cause of accident (wife).
2. 1985 ford f250, 460 @250k (speedo broke for the last 10 years)
3. 02 mustang with @116k, still running perfect
4. 07 caliber @60k perfect
5. 42cc zenoah pushing rc boat
6. 25cc zenoah weed eater
7. 06 stratus 90k perfect

These are my own. I push thing to the max:rockn: You add the cost up front and it is cheaper to run quality oil over the long run.....period..END of story!

For those that want to argue......Do your own homework and open up your wallet........step out of the dark ages and get a clue


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## milkie62 (Dec 12, 2009)

I have been using Amsoil for the last 8 yrs in everything.I usually run 40:1 or so.My Amsoil dealer said he believes in the stuff but does not go anymore than 80:1.


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## mizzou (Dec 13, 2009)

Used to run amsoil at 100 to 1 in early eightiesfor convenience, one bottle in 5 gallons of fuel. Saws ran without a problem for several years. Don't cut nearly as much now so use stihl ultra at 50 to 1 now.


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## chugbug (Dec 13, 2009)

Why is it taking so long for husky to come out with a full snythetic ! using there XP right now with 92 octane and 0 ethanol at 45-1 , I like amsoil products just couldn't get my head around the 100-1 thing and was afraid if you bump it up to 50-1 your going to get alot of carbon just like regular oils , I agree with another post , if amsoil would have made the sabre at 50-1 they would have doubled there sales , can't believe they don't see that or are to stubborn to do it.They sent out a big report on it not to long ago , they sent out I think it was 6 brand new saws to a logging outfit and had them run them on there amsoil at 100-1 and 6 saws to run on dino oil , after so many months they tore them all down and the 100-1 saws were clean as a whistle and the others were carboned up . What I would like to no is what about bearing wear !. yeah they were clean but at what price , did they mic the crank , plastic gauge the rod , that would have been nice to no , but no mention of that !!! If anyone wants me to post the test let me no I'll try to find it .


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## Walt41 (Dec 13, 2009)

Synthetic in everything, I simply cannot afford to replace my stuff..a few extra bucks save my stuff.


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## porsche965 (Dec 13, 2009)

These links below have been on AS in places before. Good reading. I have posted some real experiences before also on Amsoil. Never a failure. 

The Stihls didn't like 50:1 even after tach and ear adjusting the carb settings. Mixing 89 Marine fuel no ethanol + Stabil. 
80:1 seemed to sound strained to me on the engine and now have settled to 64:1, 2 ounces per gallon. The performance seems to be just right. After numerous plug checks, exhaust port/piston inspections everything looks like new. (Don't trust your can markings for measuring a gallon, nor the pump output. The Blitz can I use, to the fill line is 144 ounces!! Not the "one gallon + 4 ounces as advertised!) Mixing a bit under an oil's max ratio gives you a built in fudge factor. I made this mistake and it took my mix up to 71:1 from 64:1!! 

Being that it is rated at 100:1, which I have run a 076 on Opti 2 at 80:1 for years and the piston/cyclinder looked perfect, it has to do with the rating on the oil, fuel/air mix adjustment, and the feel of what is right for the saw. 

The way I see it running Amsoil at 64:1 is like running Ultra at 32:1 since Ultra is only rated at 50:1. 

10 years ago people scoffed at any sythentic oil for two strokes, and those same people are now praising STihl Ultra even though it is synthetic. It is almost 3 times the cost of what my Amsoil costs for those concerned with the price. Which in an expensive saw is somewhat irrelevant to me. With EPA and the World getting more stringent, Stihl is this evidence of changover with their Strato saw changover, eventually Stihl will have an even higher Synthetic ratio than 50:1 and the dino oils will completely disappear from the shelves.

I measure success by no breakdowns, everyone has their own ways of feeling comfortable with what they do. The great thing about this site and the knowledge here is that we can all share and learn from each other. 

Just my opinions of what has worked for 30 years for me, not to mention the tweeking along the way from other's suggestions.


http://www.geistware.com/rcmodeling/articles/oil_test/index.htm

http://www.amsoil.com/news/2009_june_saber_professional.pdf

Happy Holidays.


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## chugbug (Dec 13, 2009)

Porsche , thanks for posting the sabre test , I wasn't sure where I put it !! It just seems like there more concerned with less carbon than less wear !!! Any oil would produce less carbon at 100-1 !!


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## porsche965 (Dec 13, 2009)

Chug,

You raise a good point about wear and carbon. I have read somewhere that excessive carbon will cause lower end wear and problems. 

Finding that balance is the trick. 

A good test would be to tear down the test saws after 1000 hours and inspect the bottom ends. But so many variables go into everyone's operation. Fuel, type of work, style of operating a saw, etc. I'm glad the saws built today can take most anything we throw at them with reason.

For me this is a great Hobby, don't do it for pay, just supply others and myself with Firewood!

When you have success stick with it, whatever that may be!

Saw Safe.


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## Adirondack (Dec 13, 2009)

If I read your amsoil research data correctly it seems that the amsiol 100:1 seemed to protect the chainsaws better than the regular 50:1. Is that correct.


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## chewy78 (Dec 13, 2009)

I have used Amsoil Saber at 50-1 in my equipment with pretty much no visible smoke that Ican see, plus it smells good too. So I can run that stuff in anything that calls for 16-1 up to 50-1 mix ratio to keep only one mix around. I don't trust any oil at 100-1.

There is a dealer a couple minutes away from me that stocks that new blue marble oil. I might have to check that stuff out.


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## grandpatractor (Dec 13, 2009)

chewy78 said:


> I have used Amsoil Saber at 50-1 in my equipment with pretty much no visible smoke that Ican see, plus it smells good too. So I can run that stuff in anything that calls for 16-1 up to 50-1 mix ratio to keep only one mix around. I don't trust any oil at 100-1.
> 
> There is a dealer a couple minutes away from me that stocks that new blue marble oil. I might have to check that stuff out.



I was thinking the same thing.


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## porsche965 (Dec 13, 2009)

Well if less carbon is an indicator of the top end, and perhaps the bottom end, I would think so. But also keep in mind that they didn't specify in the test that the Manufacturer's oil was either the old dino oil or the new Ultra sythenic oil. Just have to be cautious with tests and sometimes more about what they don't say... 

Here is a great example of things just not being set up exactly fair, but the sensationalism about takes your breath away and forms your opinion without thinking about what is being used:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b49_1186200691

What to note here is that both are the same H.P. but the Evinrude is a two stroke and the Yamaha is a fourstroke. Notice they didn't compare TWO two strokes. Two strokes make more power and rev faster than a four stroke. BOTH of these engines are good engines in my view.

I'm still sticking with Amsoil because of the success over the years. My 90HP Merc two stroke runs much better as well.

And no, I don't distribute or work for Amsoil.


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## milkie62 (Dec 13, 2009)

*Why I run Amsoil*

I pay about $27/gal for Amsoil.I use it in everything and have yet to blow up a motor.I run it between 40:1 and 50:1.I even mix it about 100:1 in my splitter when it is super cold out since my splitter usually has 30wt in the crankcase.I save an empty six pack case of husky bottles and just keep refilling them from the gallon jug as needed,that way I always have some ready to go.I just fill them to the top so that is why I say it is between 40:1 and 50:1.


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