# Difference between red and black oak



## Thillmaine (Jan 10, 2008)

How do I tellt eh difference between Northern Red Oak _Quercus rubra_ and the Black Oak _Quercus vellutina_
I was told acorn size, but is ther eany easier way? Also orange inner bacrk on black oak, but to me red oak looks orange as well.


----------



## ATH (Jan 10, 2008)

On larger trees, black oak has more blocky bark. The bark is also usually a little darker. The buds and the bottom of the leaves of black oak are slightly pubescent. The final think I look for is the black oak leaves are "more full" - lobes are not as pronounced.


----------



## BostonBull (Jan 10, 2008)

Black Oak has a checkerboard pattern on more mature trees where red has a lined patern bark.

Black has Orange inner bark, red has more of a yellow.

Black leaves are deeper green and waxier looking with less lobes.

The buds on black are more pubescent, hairier.

Hope this helps......if not go to........ http://www.cnr.vt.edu/DENDRO/DENDROLOGY/main.htm


----------



## treeman82 (Jan 10, 2008)

IMO branching structure is the easiest way to tell them apart.


----------



## BostonBull (Jan 11, 2008)

treeman82 said:


> IMO branching structure is the easiest way to tell them apart.



Can you go further with this? I am always looking for easier ways to tell them apart, especially in the winter.


----------



## scubadude1188 (Jan 14, 2008)

The inside of a black oak will be the color of a number 2 pencil.


----------



## ray benson (Jan 16, 2008)

Had this picture in my tree folder. Northern Red Oak, Black Oak, Northern Pin Oak


----------



## BostonBull (Jan 16, 2008)

ray benson said:


> Had this picture in my tree folder. Northern Red Oak, Black Oak, Northern Pin Oak



That is nothing like a Balck Oak (Q. vellutina) leaf I have ever seen.

Good shots of Red and Pin though.

Although I thought Red Oaks had more lobes?


----------



## ATH (Jan 16, 2008)

Looks like black oak in the middle to me. Black oak tends to have a bigger difference between the sun leaves and shade leaves than many others...

The one on the left is the pin oak though, right.


----------



## BostonBull (Jan 16, 2008)

ATH said:


> Looks like black oak in the middle to me. Black oak tends to have a bigger difference between the sun leaves and shade leaves than many others...
> 
> The one on the left is the pin oak though, right.



As for the pin Oak thats what I thought too. But he could be right if naming them from right to left?

Q.vellutina leaves are VERY similiar to Red, except for the lobes and color.
And I stand corrected, I never noticed the big round leaves before. learn something new everyday!

http://www.cnr.vt.edu/DENDRO/DENDROLOGY/syllabus/factsheet.cfm?ID=39


http://www.cnr.vt.edu/dendro/LandownerFactsheets/detail.cfm?Genus=Quercus&Species=velutina


----------



## Brushwacker (Jan 16, 2008)

Pin-Red-Black. Left to right looking at it I am fairly sure but I leave room for error. I used to work in a tree nursery and should know but I do not gurantee my memory.


----------



## BostonBull (Jan 16, 2008)

Brushwacker said:


> Pin-Red-Black. Left to right looking at it I am fairly sure but I leave room for error. I used to work in a tree nursery and should know but I do not gurantee my memory.



I feel certain it is Pin, Black, Red.


----------



## treeman82 (Jan 16, 2008)

BostonBull said:


> Can you go further with this? I am always looking for easier ways to tell them apart, especially in the winter.



The limbs on a black oak are typically more horizontal in nature, whereas a red oak has more vertical limbs.


----------



## woodchux (Jan 16, 2008)

That is pin oak on the left and red on the right


----------



## Brushwacker (Jan 24, 2008)

BostonBull said:


> I feel certain it is Pin, Black, Red.



I am sure you are right. I cut some black the other day and examined the leaves underneath.


----------



## dhetrick3 (Nov 15, 2011)

Thillmaine said:


> How do I tellt eh difference between Northern Red Oak _Quercus rubra_ and the Black Oak _Quercus vellutina_
> I was told acorn size, but is ther eany easier way? Also orange inner bacrk on black oak, but to me red oak looks orange as well.



The easiest way if the leaves are present is to count the lobes. Black oak leaves will have between 5 and 7 lobes. Red oak leaves will have between 7 and 11 lobes. Also the shape of the buds is a good indicator too. Red has larger more rounded buds, where black has smaller more angular buds.


----------



## Big L (Dec 1, 2011)

*I'm still confused!*

Here is what I thought is / was a red oak. It was a triple before the 10/29/11 Nor'easter. Now it's a double.

Pin? Red? Black?

The leaf definitely came from the tree in question, watched it fall. Strange "ripple" in the split wood, primarily from logs near the base.

Any opinions??


----------



## Brushwacker (Dec 1, 2011)

Big L said:


> Here is what I thought is / was a red oak. It was a triple before the 10/29/11 Nor'easter. Now it's a double.
> 
> Pin? Red? Black?
> 
> ...



If its not, it sure looks like pin oak. Pretty sure thats what you have. I don't remember if it was previously mentioned, but pin oak and black oak sometimes cross. The ones I remember that were had an orangess-red wood color like black oak, bark looked inbetween and so did the leaf. That wood and bark look like pin on yours and so does the leaf. I've seen thousands of those trees, have em in the yard and many in the woods.


----------



## PJM (Dec 2, 2011)

@ Big L --> *Red oak*

It does not have the horizontal branching structure that is typical of pin oak.


----------



## Big L (Dec 2, 2011)

PJM said:


> @ Big L --> *Red oak*
> 
> It does not have the horizontal branching structure that is typical of pin oak.



That's what I thought *PJM* ... With my short extreme interest in the forest world, I have rarely heard the term "Pin Oak". My understanding is that Red Oak is by far the most common oak in in this central Connecticut area.

Thanks,

LW


----------



## PJM (Dec 2, 2011)

Pin oak has a smaller range. Here in NY its generally confined to the western Lake Plains and downstate near the City, so it may extend into CT, but I'm not sure.

Black oak tends to be more of a southern species. In NY it is more often found on the drier hillsides of the Finger Lakes region.

You can find species range maps @ Silvics Manual Volume 1-Conifers and Volume 2-Hardwoods


----------



## dhetrick3 (Dec 2, 2011)

Big L said:


> Here is what I thought is / was a red oak. It was a triple before the 10/29/11 Nor'easter. Now it's a double.
> 
> Pin? Red? Black?
> 
> ...



That is scarlet oak you have there. The sinuses are not nearly deep enough to be pin oak, and pin oak tends to have lobes that point up on the top, straight in the middle and down at the bottom. Also, the wood color is consistent with scarlet oak as it has a hue very similar to red oak.


----------



## Brushwacker (Dec 3, 2011)

dhetrick3 said:


> That is scarlet oak you have there. The sinuses are not nearly deep enough to be pin oak, and pin oak tends to have lobes that point up on the top, straight in the middle and down at the bottom. Also, the wood color is consistent with scarlet oak as it has a hue very similar to red oak.



I will not disagree. I used to work in a tree nursery , saw a lot of scarlet oak seedlings, but full size trees are rare here. I do have 1 growing I planted on my Dads farm a ways from here but haven't observed it much. Now that scarlet oak comes to mind I believe I recognize the leaf as scarlet oak and not pin oak. The texture of the wood to me looks very much like pin oak and the bark similiar but I believe your right.


----------



## Big L (Dec 3, 2011)

dhetrick3 said:


> That is scarlet oak you have there. The sinuses are not nearly deep enough to be pin oak, and pin oak tends to have lobes that point up on the top, straight in the middle and down at the bottom. Also, the wood color is consistent with scarlet oak as it has a hue very similar to red oak.





Brushwacker said:


> I will not disagree. I used to work in a tree nursery , saw a lot of scarlet oak seedlings, but full size trees are rare here. I do have 1 growing I planted on my Dads farm a ways from here but haven't observed it much. Now that scarlet oak comes to mind I believe I recognize the leaf as scarlet oak and not pin oak. The texture of the wood to me looks very much like pin oak and the bark similiar but I believe your right.



This could be it! Until now, had never heard of scarlet oak. Looking at the latest Tree Book from the Arbor Day Foundation, on page 14, there it is ... sure looks like it to me eace:

LW


----------



## PJM (Dec 5, 2011)

BigL - what color do the leaves turn in the fall? If they do not turn scarlet red, then I am still saying that this is a red oak.


----------



## lone wolf (Dec 5, 2011)

Do Scarlet Oaks drop their leaves later than Red Oaks?


----------



## Big L (Dec 5, 2011)

PJM said:


> BigL - what color do the leaves turn in the fall? If they do not turn scarlet red, then I am still saying that this is a red oak.



Not really sure ... never seem to notice the oaks, always thought they all just turn brown. With all the maples around here, they're the ones that give us color! I'll have to pay closer attention next fall :msp_thumbsup:


----------



## lone wolf (Dec 5, 2011)

PJM said:


> BigL - what color do the leaves turn in the fall? If they do not turn scarlet red, then I am still saying that this is a red oak.



Special Uses

In addition to its value as a timber and wildlife species, scarlet oak is widely planted as an ornamental. Its brilliant red autumn color, open crown texture, and rapid growth make it a desirable tree for yard, street, and park.


----------

