# Stump Grinding Business



## LOOSESTRIFE (Aug 8, 2001)

Hello

First I'd like to give you a little background about myself and company, before asking my question, so that you will be better equiped to answer. 

We are basically an estate maintenance company, that does a little bit of everything. Our primary focus though is on formal garden installation and maintenance. We have a pretty good size client base that we provide the folowing services to on a regular basis; mowing, weeding, fert/pest apps, new garden install, garden maintenance, irrigation install and repair, flower services... What I am getting at is the fact that we are not your typical mow and go Yard Apes. 

We do a miniscule amount of tree work. In fact, our only saw is a $129 Poulan, and it only gets used a few times per year, mainly to cut a low branch, or to cut up a small limb that may have fallen on one of our clients properties. On very rare occasions, we will do a take down, if it meets the following conditions: Can be felled in any direction without any danger of hitting anything, can fit in the back of a pickup truck without being chipped, and if it is for one of our current clients. So, out tree work is less than what many homeowners would do. 

We have a good working relationship with a local professional tree company that we will refer or sublet work to. 

Now on to my question. My father is planning on taking an early retirement in the near future. He would like to come abord the company with his own little niche. He has the idea of purchasing a stump grinder, and doing stump removal. He would basically need the machine, and his current pickup, and he would be in our business. 

His plan is to do the grinding, and go, leaving the chips on site. As an option to the customer, one of our crews could return to clean up chips, and seed the turf, plant the area...

I, however, do not think that this is a particurarly good idea. I am not sure that there is enough business out there to support this type of operation. HE is not looking to work 40 hours per week, maybe 2 or 3 days. 

Here is why I do not see this as a viable option. A customer has a tree removed, most likely, the tree company will also take care of the stump? It would only seem logical. 

That leaves folks that perhaps hire fly by night tree companies that do not have a grinder. Do we really want to deal with these types of folks? Most likely, they are only interested in price, and a low one. 

That leaves homeowners that do their own takedowns, as well as people that have had a stump in the yard for some time. These could be posible clients. The only other thought, and this just may be his saving grace is the tree trimmers for the utilities. 

In most cases, they will take down the entire tree, unless the property owner strongly objects. They will usually leave the wood, and stump behind. I would think that on a Saturday afternoon, on a street where the utility company just took out a number of trees, a large sum of money could be made going door to door, doing the stump grinding right then and there. 

Does anyone have any thoughts, questions, comments on this???


----------



## treeman82 (Aug 8, 2001)

when you get enough stump grinding jobs lined up. go and rent a grinder for a day or two. 200 bucks for a day, you dont have to worry about sharpening the teeth, the maintenance, the purchase of a 12K plus machine. spend 200 bucks and you are makin money within the first few hours of the day. do it by the inch though. T&M for stumps is no money. by the inch for stumping, and if they want topsoil then it goes by the yard. also, if you want to go and stump trees, look at purchasing a new saw. should cost you about 1K for a descent saw. dont go with anything less than 30" for a stumping saw. also, when you get a stump grinding job here is how we price it: $4 - 5 per inch includes grind stump and butress roots / toss chips back in hole / whatever chips are above and beyond that hole get tossed in the woods or dumping area / clean up the area around the stump of any chips and if there is scuffed turf clean it up as best you can / load machine on trailer / collect money / leave. that is what you must do for stumping. just leaving a big hole is a NO NO! god forbid an older person or young kid trips and falls because they dont see that. you are up you know what's creek without a paddle. most states say that you cant leave an uncovered hole. some smaller tree care companies do not have their own stumper. they will usually just go on rain days though and rent one if they dont own their own / theirs is in the shop / theirs is too big / small. tree guys know that there is good money in stumping and unless they really like you they probably will do it themselves. i do all of my own stumping, my tree friends all do their own stumping. if they are landscrapers they have either me or another tree guy do it. so maybe you have it backwards, you should be subbing the stumping out to them? think about it. and get back to us.


----------



## John Paul Sanborn (Aug 8, 2001)

Would it be bad to keep Papy occupide and happy? He probibly does not want to do the edging the rest of his semi retirement.

I would not get anything less then big self propeled with a diesel say 65hp or so. what $35k with trailer? So the monthly paynents on a 6 year lease are around $550? 

He wants to work around 12 days a month so to cover the rig
$46. 

he works 5 hrs at $20/hr 
$100

W/C coverage is 33% 
$33

Fuel, let's make it easier and round things off
$54

so far wee need $233/ day to keep Dad buissy. 

Maybe talk to area tree companies, those who work for you and others and see if you can scrounge up 9-12 stumps a week.


----------



## Darin (Aug 9, 2001)

I was always able to keep busy with local tree companies and actually city bids. They city bids worked well. Cities usually have stumpers but somtimes cant keep up on them. They one problem I would say that you could have is that many companies own these machines. So if you already dont have an in somewhere, it could be tough. Treeman82 has a good point about renting, though its harder to find rentals on stumpers due to high maintence. The other problem with renting that I had was it always was dull. It never failed. So I was beating myself up and the machine up trying to do the job with dull teeth. So if you didnt know. Plan on lots of maintence. Its probably much higher than your other machines that you own.

I was going to ask. Are you with the crew all day or can dad be a runner? Estimater? Mafia check collector? Or to get you a better name (not implying its bad) quality control, meaning that I know you get calls like they crew broke my sprinkler or they didnt trim around the pool, etc. I know it happens no matter how good you are. It might not make you money on the front end, but could make you more on the back end due to referrels and you can charge more for your services. It would cost you more dropping what you are doing to handle these problems. 

Good luck to you and your Dad. Let us know how it goes.


----------



## Dave (Aug 10, 2001)

When I started grinding about 15 years ago our stump grinder was a novelty and there was as much work as you wanted to do. Now there are big stump machines, little stump machines, a machine for everybody and everybody seems to have one (or two). If I tried to make a living off of other guy's stumps, I would be in trouble. Something to check into is the pricing in your area- around here 2.50/in. is about the limit, I dream of living where 5.00/in. is possible. Another option if somebody in the crew is mechanically inclined is to buy a used machine and keep it going. Good luck but don't expect to break even for a long time


----------



## LOOSESTRIFE (Aug 20, 2001)

Thank you for all your help fellows. Just to update you. It will be next year before dad is ready to come abord with the company, so I am just trying to get a feel for what is out there. He has his mind set on stump grinding, but, as some of you mentioned, there are a lot of these machines out there these days. Most every tree company has one, and if they are taking down your tree, there is a very good chance that they will also do the stump. 

If this were 10 or 15 years ago, I would do it in an instant, as there were a lot fewer stump machines out there. 

Dad has been in a supervisory position for 30 years, and really does not want to have to supervise our company, and besides, that is my job We both agree that he would best fit in a role of doing something simple. 

I haven't "done the numbers" yet to see how many stumps would have to be done on a daily/weekly basis to make this worth while, but I just think that there is too limited amount of work, without having the tree service to go with it. 

I just wanted to add that I have a huge repect for professional arborists everywhere. You do a very difficult and dangerous job, and are able to do it properly and safely. It is with that respect that we do not do tree work. If we were ever to get into that type of work (not likely), I would only ever consider it if I had a person with the knowledge, skills, and safety to do the work properly.


----------



## monkeypuzzle (Aug 21, 2001)

I have a Promark,18hp,stumpgrinder that is over 10 years old.This was bought from a hardware shop that was going to start renting it out to homeowners.The hardware store lost and I won.It costs less than 40$ to replace the teeth and very little maintenance.Darn good little money maker,but will beat you up.


----------



## John Paul Sanborn (Aug 21, 2001)

I might get one of those Hustler mounted ones for my small to medium stuff. It is very quick and agile. Though the responce of controls is ao touchy. Or maybe fast. Would take a while to get used to.


----------

