# drop starting



## clearance

Has anybody out there ever been hurt drop starting a saw? Please only what you have seen, experienced not stories.


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## Tom Dunlap

After I stopped drop starting and use other techinques my shoulders and elbows hurt a lot less after a day of removal work. Drop starting umpteen times in a day is hard on your body in more ways than just getting cut. 

This is another example of repetitive stress that will catch up to all of us as we get older.


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## kf_tree

help me out here..........what exactly is drop starting?


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## Dadatwins

DROP STARTING

Saw off the ground, sometimes the bar tip is set on a log, hold the saw handle in your right hand, pull with your left hand, done by everyone since the begining of chain saw use, and frowned upon by every safety organization. Proper use says saw should be started on the ground with a foot in the trigger handle, or wedge the handle against you inner thigh.


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## kf_tree

thanks.....i've heard the term but never really knew what it meant. thats pretty much the way i start all my saws.


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## Al Smith

Well gents,that's all fine and dandy for a smaller saw.Try it on an 084 some time.


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## Eagle1

Does anyone here leave the saw running on your lanyard (brake engaged) in between cuts in the tree? I don't but my partner does alot.....says he wont need rotor cuff surgury later....


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## clearance

Constantly, and only recently with the brake on.


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## kf_tree

Eagle1 said:


> Does anyone here leave the saw running on your lanyard (brake engaged) in between cuts in the tree? I don't but my partner does alot.....says he wont need rotor cuff surgury later....




my boss does that.......i hate the idea of it. he even leaves it running in the bucket with him. i just shake my head when i watch him.


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## Stumper

I drop start the little saws. The saws over 4 CID I usually set on the ground or stump. The ones around 3-5 cubes also get started with the handle under the thigh technique-I'm sure it is forbidden by someone but it works well.


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## Dadatwins

Stumper said:


> The ones around 3-5 cubes also get started with the handle under the thigh technique



Gave one of my old Homelite xl925 to a guy a work to play with, he tried the under the thigh method and still has a limp and a bit higher voice.


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## Stumper

Well, it does require a bit of care in execution......


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## 2Coilinveins

I once watched a friend punch himself in the face when dropstarting because of a broken pullcord. Funniest thing I'd seen all week. Still makes me smile thinking about it.

Drop starting can also be done by holding the front handle with left hand and yanking the starter cord with right hand. This was my favorite starting technique until I realized that once the saw starts, I'm holding a running saw on fast idle with one hand as it bounces around in rebound from my pulling the cord. I don't like having so little control of the saw while the chain is moving, even for only as long as it takes me to let go of the pullcord and get my right hand on the rear handle. I also don't like the idea of running the saw on fast idle with the chain brake on, so now I start on the ground. Anyone who snickers about it gets told to go copulate themselves.


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## Kneejerk Bombas

I used to drop start all my saws, but since I learned the method talked about where you stick it in your thigh, that's how I do it now, except for the climbing saws. Those little pecker pole pruners still get drop started.

It makes sense to me to set the brake, set the throttle/choke control, hit the decompression valve, stick the rear handle under my thigh, and pull. It gives total control, is effortless, safe, once the habit is formed, fast and easy.
I will admit, after drop starting for more than ten years, it took some doing to make proper starting a habit.
As for actual injury, it is hard to quantify, but I started suffering from CTS symptoms, and changed the way I had done things for years to manage it. Starting saws properly was one of those changes. 
I suppose wrist elbow and shoulder injuries are also hard to quantify. The safety guys could probably give exact numbers of people that actually cut themselves drop starting, it's like a lot of other things, learning to do it right pays off.


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## TimberMcPherson

I start it against my thigh (or should that be between my legs?). But up in a tree I find that dropping is the only way to get my 066 going with a 36 inch bar on it.


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## TreeJunkie

in the tree drop starting is just about required for all saws. except maybe smaller saws, but then why not. Just make double sure to check your chain brake.

I tend to leave my saw running dangling from my lanyard. only w/ brake on though. I think it is a definite elbow saver and i'd say the risk is very minimal afterall it dangles below my feet. worst thing it could probobally cut would be the tail of my rope. chance of that is about 0 percent considering the chain brake is applied.


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## Tom Dunlap

I never allow anyone to dangle a running saw. I see the possibilty of something bumping the brake and the throttle at the same time. Maybe I spend too much time thinking about possibilities to the ridiculous extreme... 

Somewhere in the Z133 there is a section that prohibits drop starting. FWIW...do as you will, you will anyway.


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## clearance

Tom- I always use to climb with my 020 hanging of my ass, running without the brake on. My new boss asked me to use the brake when I am not cutting, he also asked me to never free climb. Its his show and out of respect I don't freeclimb and I use my brake. I never really though about it but the saw could run a little and badly nick the rope, then when you are rappelling back down it could break. So I guess you are right in a way.


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## Tom Dunlap

It sounds like you just stopped free climbing. Is that so? Why would you ever free climb?

If so, you just gave me an incredible insight about yourself.


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## Ekka

I drop start like 2Coilinveins wrote but I always have the chain brake on.

Also, with Stihls, just happens by coincidence does it that it's the perfect postion to just twist the wrist a bit and extend the thumb out to decompress ... just perfect. 

And I have never ever had an incident or near close call as you have a pretty good grip of it and at pretty much the central balance point with the bar well away and sticking out to the left of you.

Also, as soon as you have started it your right hand is ready to grab the handle and trigger.

Personally, its the most comfortable, easiest and natural way for me.

I also often have my saws idling with the brake on whilst they hang of my harness, if you're blocking down etc you'd be nuts to start it every time... stuff that starting them every cut unless you have to seriously manouver around the tree.


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## turnkey4099

TreeCo said:


> It's where you start the saw standing up and kind of throw the saw away from you while pulling the starter handle.
> 
> It's how I start all my saws. No injuries to report.
> 
> Most of the time when I see fellows starting their saws on the ground they get the bar in the dirt........and their saws are so dull it would be hard to cut themselves with them anyway.
> 
> Dan



Odd. If it is on level ground if you step on the handle, the nose of the bar comes up a bit and the chain is clear of the dirt.

Harry K


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## Gypo Logger

There has always been a corelation between the sissy type and the nut cracker start. lol
You know, the type that went to school and was taught how to use a saw by some shrubber who never moved beyond a Muckaluck or a Pukalon. lol
Anyway, drop starting is the safest and requires the least expenditure of effect except in confined quarters.
I also drop start my 088 with ease. It is basicly the technique that is used to drop start that counts.
I'm not really condemning the other methods. It is important to use the method that serves one best, however, you have to admit that the between the legs thing looks pretty ghey. I mean I'm sure woman wouldn't put a saw between their breast just to start it, however, it would be a sight.
John


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## treeman82

I used to leave the saw running when it would hang from my saddle. Then one day Dennis Ryan saw me doing that, yelled at me about it, and that was the end of it. When the cut is done, the saw gets turned off. I may have broken that rule a few times though when I had my 044 hanging off my belt, but I know that hasn't happened many times. Like it's been said here already, you could accidentally bump into something and there goes that chain brake. Not to mention the fact that it makes more noise that you are going to have to hear over.

As for drop starting, I always drop start my 020. As for my rear handled saws, I have been trying to do the under the leg thing, but old habits die hard. When I remember to, I do behind the leg, otherwise its a drop start deal. Oh, and no matter what saw I may be starting, the chain brake is ALWAYS on. That's the last thing anybody needs, to be working on starting the saw and then all of a sudden you have the chain spinning at how many thousand RPM's?


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## P_woozel

Drop starting isnt a good way to go, period. I do it, but I figure to hell with it I've been cutting for 20 years now, and I can replace a worn out starter cord. The on the ground thing dosnt work for guys up north in the winter, bunny boots dont fit well in the rear handle. The between the legs thing is accceptable and probably the way to go for women like treeco and those clowns. The soundest way to start a saw over 65cc is to rest the bar over a log and crank it up. To each his own some of you will learn some will hopefully not hurt yourselves to bad, but who cares your flatlander commies anyway. :umpkin:


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## Gypo Logger

P_woozel said:


> Drop starting isnt a good way to go, period. I do it, but I figure to hell with it I've been cutting for 20 years now, and I can replace a worn out starter cord. The on the ground thing dosnt work for guys up north in the winter, bunny boots dont fit well in the rear handle. The between the legs thing is accceptable and probably the way to go for women like treeco and those clowns. The soundest way to start a saw over 65cc is to rest the bar over a log and crank it up. To each his own some of you will learn some will hopefully not hurt yourselves to bad, but who cares your flatlander commies anyway. :umpkin:


 For a treehoser that doesn't even know how to mix his own gas, I don't think you possess the credentials to be telling others how to start their saw. Don't make me get Ben Walker after you!
Hahaha
reference: http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=24372


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## P_woozel

Jonny boy, dont tell me that you have the reading comprehension level of Benny too? I would love to match skills with a saw with any of you clowns, with the exception of a couple of the Westside jacks I dont worry about a poor show. Ole benny another trust fund clown, likes to play worker, I never knew that how I made a living would become trendy and little rich mommas boys would play at it. :umpkin:


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## clearance

Tom-I used to freeclimb quite a lot on smaller diameter trees that I felt comfortable with, I made sure that my spurs were stuck in real good before I unclipped my steelcore for sure. Now that I am windfirming way out in the bush and work for someone else it is different. If I get badly hurt there it is no 20 minute ride to the big hospital. It is getting picked of the mountain in a helicopter, to the little airport, then medivaced 500 miles to Vancouver. It kind of sucks on the skinny trees but I can understand why my boss wants me to climb with 2 steelcores, I am not to stubborn and am changing my ways a bit. At this job I rarely one hand either because everthing can just drop. Also, he has got me in the habit of tying in before I top the tree, if something goes wrong I can just rappel down. On another topic=why haven't P woozels nasty comments been deleted? I called people names a while ago (treehugger, whiner etc.) and Begley deleted it and gave me ????, also banned me from the homeowner help forum. After thinking about it, I think he was sort of right. Recently I called those Petzl hats "pretty boy", even that is a little uncalled for but not a personal insult like clown. Justice must be handed out equally or the law is tarnished.
b


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## P_woozel

Delete my comments, hell why not the reason a lot of folks dont frequent this site much is due to the little gang of ????s that are constantly telling everyone how great they are and creating a environment that prevents learning and exchanging ideas, just cause I'm one of the few who is fed up with it dont make me a bad person just an ??????? with a plan. Gyppo, treeco, Darin, Ben, and a few others are dickheads, just cause they fell they are morally above the rest is why they are so pompous. Why not ban me from this lame ass site since I seem to be to stupid and thickheaded, I come back from thime to time thinking it has improved and just the same ???? again. Come on, does anyone have a clue?


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## clearance

Easy to insult people when you are thousands of miles away, thems fightin words. Reminds me of something I read "before the internet the village idiot had to stay in his village" If my employer really wanted me to start a saw on the ground I would do it, but the handle right beside my bag, that is insanity.


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## Eagle1

There are many ways to get ideas, points across without disrespecting other or this site. No one and nothing is perfect. Whats the problem? just write, read, comment and learn. 

I am not saying that anyone is dissing anyone. I just never understood getting all nervous and worked up from a web site....no that Rocky is gone of course.

PS. Maybe you are a clown :jester:


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## smokechase II

Clearance:
I've never heard of any injuries from drop starting. But they sure are possible and without a doubt they have occurred. However, I've never seen a real logger in the West that didn't drop start.
A couple caveats. They always have the tip on a piece of wood, a stump or a log. (This posture makes starting actually easy on your body-if you have a 28"+ bar, or a reasonably tall stump or log). Secondly the throttle is not held on by either your throttle finger or a combo on/off/throttle/choke switch like most Stihls have. Everyone I know strongly recommends against starting a Stihl in the 3rd setting- by any method - as it fully winds the throttle without operator two hand control.
You can mitigate drop starting concerns by starting your saw with the chain brake engaged. But you have to be a good person and not throttle up at all or you'll wear out your chain brake early. If you find yourself having to start your saw with a little throttle you need to take the time to tune it, clean filters etc.
For learners, the other starting methods can be a good idea. Then later they go to carefully trained drop starting.
At this point a mitigation for new sawyers is to have them think about how they place their bar on that piece of wood. If the angle that the bar has is close to one that could kick back at the opertor have them change it by either moving the saw or their body or both. Best results most would say is to lay the bar flat, with the saw turned counterclockwise 90 degrees. Note that this saw position also makes pulling the cord quite easy. 
Neither the on your thigh thing or just plain drop starting, I would suggest, should be used.


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## rahtreelimbs

Gypo Logger said:


> For a treehoser that doesn't even know how to mix his own gas, I don't think you possess the credentials to be telling others how to start their saw. Don't make me get Ben Walker after you!
> Hahaha
> reference: http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=24372







TreeCo said:


> Man you're not to stupid and thickheaded for this site. You fit right in.
> 
> Dan


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## 2Coilinveins

This puerile bull???? should stay in HK.


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## spencerhenry

i have very rarely ever NOT dropped started a saw, and dont know that i have ever seen anyone else not drop start a saw. i do it all the time with all my saws. even the 066. and an 088, its a pig anyway, but drop starts just fine, though it is a little tiring if it doesnt start right away


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## Al Smith

Well then,how would you drop start this one?


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## Gypo Logger

Al, that's a really nice looking saw. It's almost new!
That's a wicked looking stump though.
John


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## lostone

Al Smith said:


> Well then,how would you drop start this one?


Wow is that a PM6 or the PM6A, Al?  JK, nice saw collection you have Al. I have seen several of your saw photo's on Mikes site. Which is that one of your 125's? My small PM6 I drop start, the 028,036 and 046 I start on the ground when they are cold, but once they have warmed up I will start the 028 and the 036 with the rear handle under my thigh.


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## RedlineIt

Of course (!) on most TDs my saw runs between cuts, chain brake on. The time between cuts is less than thirty seconds, often more like five or ten seconds. The chainbrake plus the operator presence throttle lock out make most issues of unintended acceleration moot. Even if your chainbrake got disengaged it would take the conspiracy of two twigs to make the saw rev up, one to cleverly depress the lock-out and one to manage the throttle. (The throttle lock-out is working on your saw, isn't it?) I look at what I am hanging my saw into, if its clear near my hip, I let it idle. Why not? If it looks like the tree will make my next cut 60 seconds or more away, I'll shut it off, but just because I'm not a fan of two-stroke smoke.

If I'm pruning, the chainsaw is usually only for stubs, if I take it up at all. It hangs near the center of the tree, if I want it. I get a better cut from a sharp handsaw, and I can more clearly hear myself singing perverted lyrics to old Stones and Beatles tunes.

On any drop start, I snug the pull cord until the dogs get a grip and I can feel the engine is up against a compression, then pull smoothly through. The compression bump can be felt even with the de-comp engaged. Better on my joints and better for the saw. I see a lot of guys just yanking on pull-cords with no mechanical sympathy, not for the saws mechanisms nor their own. The abuse will tell, but the saw can be fixed for a couple of bucks, elbows are not so cheap to come by.


RedlineIt


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## RedlineIt

> Just to sidetrack the thread a bit I've heard it's best to let the handle rewind slowly instead of just letting it go.
> 
> Does it make a difference in wear and tear on the saw?




Well, now you're just pretending to be ignorant, surely.

Have I missed something?


RedlineIt.


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## Al Smith

Yep,that's a 125 with a 48" bar[143 drive links,.404].Just a point,you can't drop start a large saw.That thing tips the scales at around 40 lbs,with that long bar.It is so nose heavy you have to keep a foot in the handle to keep the nose out of the dirt.An 084,sporting a 42" bar is the same.Now I ask you who in their right mind would try to start one of those by drop starting?


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## Ekka

At college we were not allowed to drop start a saw.

Also I believe OHS prohibits it too, depending where you are of course.

I have mentioned my personal opinion on this but I do not know of a person yet who was injured drop starting a saw. But the irony is, when you are in a tree and your balance and strength for starting are compromised you can drop start a saw ... also, the encouragement of turning the saw off between cuts can only then further increase the volume of drop starts up the tree.

Frankly, all BS to me, especially when up a tree with size 46+ saws, I have them sent up idling and they stay on till I'm down or out of juice. Seems to me too many BS rules written by BS operators or desk bound paper pushers.


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## njforestfire

*I agree*



Stumper said:


> I drop start the little saws. The saws over 4 CID I usually set on the ground or stump. The ones around 3-5 cubes also get started with the handle under the thigh technique-I'm sure it is forbidden by someone but it works well.



I agree about the little saws and drop starting. The thigh technique is not forbidden but actually a preferred way to start chainsaws among many of us. This method was and is tought in current chainsaw classes around the country. I personally like this method and it is one that I teach during our S-212 course (Wildland Firefighting and Powersaws).


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## njforestfire

Gypo Logger said:


> There has always been a corelation between the sissy type and the nut cracker start. lol
> You know, the type that went to school and was taught how to use a saw by some shrubber who never moved beyond a Muckaluck or a Pukalon. lol
> Anyway, drop starting is the safest and requires the least expenditure of effect except in confined quarters.
> I also drop start my 088 with ease. It is basicly the technique that is used to drop start that counts.
> I'm not really condemning the other methods. It is important to use the method that serves one best, however, you have to admit that the between the legs thing looks pretty ghey. I mean I'm sure woman wouldn't put a saw between their breast just to start it, however, it would be a sight.
> John



To each his own...and did you ever think about maybe the 'vibrations' feeling good during the inner thigh start??


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## turnkey4099

This thread is the same as a lot of them. It comes down to opinions. Each has his own and nobody is likely to change. Me? I used to use the boot on the ground until age crept up and the ground got further away. Now it is the 'inside the thigh'. I never tried the 'drop start'.

Harry K


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## darkstar

i could get banned for this one .... saw on crotch is better than viagra hahahahahahahahahahahahah


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## BlueRidgeMark

RedlineIt said:


> ... I can more clearly hear myself singing perverted lyrics to old Stones and Beatles tunes.



I could have gone all day without the benefit of that mental image!


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## pmuscato

I used to drop start while climbing, but I got tired of climbing back down to get my saw.


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## Ax-man

I'll add a little different twist to this, JMO here, drop starting is hard on the rewind side of a saw, usually drop starting will run the rewind spring just about out to the max losing it's tensile to rewind the rope back if done over a long period of time, the pull rope and the guide wears prematurely because the rewind cord is being pulled out at an angle instead of straight. Short quick pulls between the legs or having the saw on the ground keeps the rope feeding into the rewind pulley straight, less chance of a foul-up too.

Ever since I basically switched to the inner leg method or putting the saw on the ground if it is real heavy my rewind problems have not been so numerious.

Quick fast short pulls between the legs also seem to get a saw started faster than long hard pulls when they are drop started. It all boils down to tuning and good maintence, as to how well a saw will start using either method. Drop starting is a last resort for me but there are some days that is only way to get a saw going, engage the brake, hold the throttle wide open and drop start it.

Maybe it is just me but I don't feel I have good balance or control over a saw when drop starting one. I used to be a drop starter but just got away from it because it is just more fatiguing, especially on a hot day. If your tiring out from trying to drop start a saw, you don't have as good of control over the saw.

Most chain saw cuts are in the thigh area below the waist, wonder how many of those cuts are from drop starting saws ???

Larry


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## Al Smith

Well this area of the forum is about injurys.As matter of record most injurys are in the leg areas and the average takes about 90 stiches to close the wound.These things are unforgiving tools.Don't put safety in the back seat,please be careful.


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## crimplene

I used to drop start my 020 in the tree, but kept punching myself in the nose with the starter handle....( So I stopped and went back to the thigh method


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## njforestfire

Regarding injuries on this topic, what I have noticed is a large bruise on my thigh....probably the biggest drawback using this technique. I learned to use mid and lower thigh (near the knee) to 'spread the bruising' out. 2 Weeks doiong saw work on fire lines gets very tiring and all the walking and other crap you gotta pack just plain sucks on the thigh. I did have to use the ground to start a few and God forbid you get caught by the Supervisor doing a drop start.


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## CoreyTMorine

The first time i heard the term "drop start" I thought ‘well, that sounds interesting, I’ll try it.’ So the next day I climbed a few feet up a smallish pine, and clipped in. OK, lets set the chain brake, hold the saw by the center top handle, grab the pull cord handle firmly, right. Then I proceeded to throw the saw towards my feet. It didn’t start; it hung dangling by its pull cord, slowly bumping off of the tree. 

“Well that sucks! What a stupid idea! Someone’s going to get hurt if they keep starting their saw that way.”

I then retrieved my saw, grabbed the center top handle and pulled up briskly on the pull cord handle. This procedure never needed a name or label, it was simply the only way I had ever seen a saw started.


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## CoreyTMorine

*2 fliplines vs split tail*



clearance said:


> Now that I am windfirming way out in the bush and work for someone else it is different. It kind of sucks on the skinny trees but I can understand why my boss wants me to climb with 2 steelcores, I am not to stubborn and am changing my ways a bit.
> b



Clearance, I sometimes tie my blakes hitch on the ground, that way when I get to a limb I pull out some slack and fling my climbing line above the limb, then tie in on the short climbing line. Once that’s done I unclip the steelcore, and advance to the next limb using the climbline as a safety. I climb on yale XTC, which is good thick cord, it actually flip lines really well. When you get way up the weight of the climb line pulling on the knot screws things up, I just pull some line up and wedge it between my handsaw handle and scabbard, or tie a midline knot and attach it to my saddle. Of course if someone were to be a as stingy as john they could probably just hold the rope with their butt cheeks  

I try not to do this too much, cause it is hard on the rope. But I usually buy a new climbline every year anyway. (edit, flip lining is hard on the rope, not securing it, lol)

This only works if you use a split tail. The great thing is that you don’t need to pack 2 steel cores up the tree with you. plus when your ready to blast the top there's no time wasted tying knots before the big ride.

It also works well on big ol’ cottonwoods or cedars over 6’ through and trees like that. I find that the loop I can throw in the rope travels higher and further away from the tree, thus preventing some hang-ups.

I’ve tried using a steel core safety with 2 ends, each with about a 2 foot lead, but I don’t like the way this flip lines.

I always use the wirecore safety if I’m cutting, but I feel plenty safe with the rope safety if I’m only climbing.


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## 046

I'm with blue spruce. 

in a tree, simply hold on to top bar and pull. on the ground I'll go with foot on saw, then yank. never had any problems starting. 

wouldn't even think of starting between legs...


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## blue

so if your stood on spikes 40' up, a lanyard holding you in,loggin off a poplar with a husky 395 36" bar how the **** are you supposed to start it without the drop start method?


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## kf_tree

i find it alot easier to start a big saw in a tree than on the ground......hold the cord and push the saw away. the weight of the saw does all the work.


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## bama

I drop start my saws after they have warmed up because then they start on low idle. I have a 920 and a 621 Jonsered, and after about twenty more years, I will see the reasoning behind starting on the ground all the time. I hold the handle with the left hand and pull with the right. They start 1st pull every time.


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## treesurgeon

Tom Dunlap said:


> It sounds like you just stopped free climbing. Is that so? Why would you ever free climb?
> 
> If so, you just gave me an incredible insight about yourself.


probably the same reason people free climb cliffs and mountains, their all nuts.


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## rbtree

Tom Dunlap said:


> Why would you ever free climb?




Because it is fast...I do it quite often, Tom, in a brushy tree with nicely spaced limbs. Three point rule applies...


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## Diesel JD

I'm nopt a pro but have been using a chainsaw for many years. At first always started on the ground, but I have found that drop starting is the easiest method most of teh time. I've always tried to keep my saws in good enough tune that they will start on the first hit. Right hand on the front handle bar, left hand pulls the starter cord, and it fires right up. Everything gets started that way from teh smallest saw to the largest in my stable. I don't see how this could put you at risk for an injury unless during a cold start when the saw is running with the trigger locked for half a second, the bar nose somehow came in contact with something and kicked back on you.


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## treesurgeon

I'm just sick of when guys start the saw with the chain brake off. with it on, you have the possibility of a small cut. with it off, the chain will be full speed with one hand on the saw. 
i think its easy to start it with the handle in between my legs. two points of contact.


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## SawTroll

treesurgeon said:


> ....... I think its easy to start it with the handle in between my legs. two points of contact.


That is what I usually do, and always when the saw is cold. I don't hesitate to drop start (left hand on rope) if the saw is warmed up, and it suits the situation, though. 
I have never hurt myself in any way, or even been close to it, either way.  

I have _never_ started a saw with the chainbrake on unless in thick brush/high grass, and I don't want to do it, as I think it adds an element of stress to the starting process. 
I don't know anyone else who starts with the brake on either......


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## Kneejerk Bombas

OSHA keeps track of industrial accidents, to some extent. There are injuries from drop starting, I'm sure, and I'd bet the worst ones are where the saw starts at high throttle and the chain makes contact with the operator or somebody nearby. 
If the brakes on, that is less likely to happen. And if you start it with an approved method, it's less likely to be flailing around and hit flesh.
I guess it's kind of like driving with or with out your seatbelt on. It probably won't save you from injury, but it might.
Proper starting does take a second or two longer, but I've found if I start the process of starting a second or two earlier, I end up standing in front of the log with the saw running at the same time, or I just drop start it.


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## turnkey4099

treesurgeon said:


> <snip> i think its easy to start it with the handle in between my legs. two points of contact.



Same here. I don't get the repeated nay sayers with their "saw between the legs" bit. If you have the 'saw' between your legs, you ain't doing it right. Handle behind right knee or just above it, Left knee under crank case(actually just on the left edge of it), left hand on handle. Three points of control as opposed to waving a running saw around one handed. All that belongs between the legs is the point of the rear handle.

Harry K


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## Kneejerk Bombas

If that's the case Dan, you're doing it wrong.


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## clearance

Treesurgeon says I am nuts cause I used to freeclimb, he starts a saw with the handle between his legs, what about his nuts? Anyways, thanks all for responding to my question. I have drop started everthing from little saws to 2100s with no decomp for the last 20 years, almost everyone I know drop starts. Just wondered if anyone had any real good stories like you hear the safaty gurus talk about, like the saw flying up and cutting someones head off.


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## turnkey4099

TreeCo said:


> I don't like the 'between the legs' or behind the knee starting method. It's just as dangerous as drop starting. Where does this 'waving the saw around one handed' when drop starting come from? You got a hand on your knees on something?
> 
> Drop starting with the chain brake on is the safest and easiest was to start a chainsaw. The assumption that drop starters don't use the chain brake is just that....an assumption. It's like if you start the chainsaw between you legs the chain brake comes on automatically. Bunk.
> 
> When starting with the saw between you legs.....if there is a lot of compression the saw is still being pulled into the chest and face area of the operator.
> 
> Dan



Who said anything about not using the chain brake?

Drop starting: one hand on saw, one on pull rope, starts, just what is that you are waving around one handed? Where do you have more than one hand on it?

If the saw is pulled into your chest you have a mighty weak left arm.

Harry K


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## turnkey4099

clearance said:


> Treesurgeon says I am nuts cause I used to freeclimb, he starts a saw with the handle between his legs, what about his nuts? Anyways, thanks all for responding to my question. I have drop started everthing from little saws to 2100s with no decomp for the last 20 years, almost everyone I know drop starts. Just wondered if anyone had any real good stories like you hear the safaty gurus talk about, like the saw flying up and cutting someones head off.



Likewise. As I said in an earlier post, eveyone has their opinion and it is unlikely anyone will change.

As for accidents drops starting, I have never seen any reports of one, just like I have never seen a report of one with the knee brace method. Not saying they don't exist, just never saw one.

Harry K


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## notahacker

Check out this link for starting saws.

http://www.usa.husqvarna.com/?url=%2Fnode1350%2Easp%3Fframes%3Dfalse


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## notahacker

Sorry. When you check the link look for the "How-To Videos" tab.


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## treesurgeon

TreeCo said:


> My right hand is on the front handle and my left hand is on the pull starter. The chain brake is on.
> 
> There is no waving around of the saw at all. It's not a difficult concept.
> 
> You must be doing it wrong.
> 
> Dan


whats your concept for all the saws without chain-brakes. the two approved ways to start a saw are between the legs and on the ground. i have never seen a manual to show how to professionally drop start a saw.


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## treesurgeon

clearance said:


> Treesurgeon says I am nuts cause I used to freeclimb, he starts a saw with the handle between his legs, what about his nuts? Anyways, thanks all for responding to my question. I have drop started everthing from little saws to 2100s with no decomp for the last 20 years, almost everyone I know drop starts. Just wondered if anyone had any real good stories like you hear the safaty gurus talk about, like the saw flying up and cutting someones head off.


i guess your not nuts, i must have read my saw manual wrong when it talked about the two only ways to start a saw. what does stihl know anyways. i know it might take a few seconds longer to start a saw but time is money so keep on drop starting and forget about those rope's, they can get tangled and be a hassle.
are you the guy i read about that took dead tops out of trees 60' up by free climbing?


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## Kneejerk Bombas

If you hold the saw between your legs properly, it puts very little strain on your wrist, elbow, and shoulder. It is much lower impact than drop starting. That adds to the safety of the method for sure. 
I find myself drop starting when I'm fresh and full of energy, and then later in the day when my ass is dragging and I'm starting a big, cold saw, I'll start it the right way.

In the tree, there are different mechanics. The ground isn't in the way and you can hang so your lower body is out of the way. 

Dan, when you drop start, are you holding the rear handle?


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## a_lopa

drop starting with the brake off makes you look more proffesional,like you know whats happening you are king of the jungle.


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## Kneejerk Bombas

TreeCo said:


> I'm holding the front handle. And I'm talking about smaller saws like the 460M and smaller.



Your method is so close to the proper method, it's almost not any faster. You might as well do it right. You're basically doing everything except sticking the handle under your leg.


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## Kneejerk Bombas

The advantage is it's easier.


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## turnkey4099

TreeCo said:


> My right hand is on the front handle and my left hand is on the pull starter. The chain brake is on.
> 
> There is no waving around of the saw at all. It's not a difficult concept.
> 
> You must be doing it wrong.
> 
> Dan



You still have only one hand on a running saw.

As for doing it wrong, you are correct. I don't do it at all so in your book that is wrong. As I have said, no one is going to change their opinions. All the techs I have seen starting saws use the drop start with right hand on the rear handle without the chainbrake on. Now that is scary just watching it.

Harry K


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## Kneejerk Bombas

TreeCo said:


> You are still pulling the starter cord with you hand and arm, aren't you? Or do other appendages come into play?
> 
> I find that with the handle behind my leg.......and yes I've started saws hundreds of times that way......that my arm is already bent at the elbow before I even start pulling the starter handle. For me that makes it harder. Plus I gain some mechanical advantage by pushing the saw away from me with one arm while pulling with the other. The chain brake is always on.
> 
> Dan



The advantage is you don't have to lift the saw with one hand and throw it down while you pull on the cord, and then stop its movement, keep it in control, and grab at it with your other hand. 
You just pull on the cord, a very similar motion to holding the rear handle with your foot while the saw is on the ground, as you do with an 066.

A lot of chainsaw injuries are worn out shoulders, elbows, and wrists. I'm talking about guys who run saws all day long for many years. Most tree guys get taken out of the game by more serious injuries, not making enough money, getting better opportunities, or whatever, but trust me, if don't watch out, these cumulative repetitive motion injuries can take you out just as surely as a good chainsaw cut.


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## Kneejerk Bombas

Well, let's see, it's proof you want. Some objective study that followed a few thousand arborists, loggers, and homeowners around for 20 years, measuring every single upper body motion, then measuring each of those forces, statistically compiling information, and stating exactly the difference between the two methods of starting a saw. Yes, there is such a study underway. In an effort to prove you wrong, the study will be two days old tomorrow.  
Dude, use a little intellectual intuition. Drop starting is a jerky motion, throwing and stopping a 15 pound object, possibly several tens or hundreds of times a day. 
You wanting proof it can cause injury, is like me wanting proof smoking a bunch of crack each day could cause cancer. Only a thorough study of your life style would tell for sure.


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## treesurgeon

TreeCo said:


> Sorry Mike but you have no evidence that drop starting a saw creates 'repetitive motion injuries' any more than putting the saw behind your leg.
> 
> Got proof or are you just blowing smoke?
> 
> Dan


what, you've never heard of drop starting elbow?


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## Kneejerk Bombas

Drop starting is a much more physically demanding motion. It's harder. Isn't that enough?
You admit it's too hard to do with an 066, yet with an 046 is the same?


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## Kneejerk Bombas

With long bats I just set the tip on the ground and drop start as usual. If the brakes on, no problem, if not, you need to get the throttle off quick.


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## smokechase II

I agree with Mr. Mass.
With the tip of the bar on a log or stump, it is easy.
Especially with larger saws.
Bending over and picking up one of those guys is not easy.


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## spacemule

If you're a real man, you just give your saw the evil eye and say "You'd better get cracking you little sob!!" The saw will tremble and shake for a couple of seconds before spitting gas out it's oiler hole and then take off running. After this, it won't kick back on you either. So, that's the problem--you all just can't handle saws like us real men.


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## Jim1NZ

Why would drop starting outlawed if it was legitimate???


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## spacemule

Jim, although I agree that drop starting is a poor technique (unless you're in the tree obviously), this is not a good argument. Why was liquor outlawed?


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## Jim1NZ

True that spacemule, and im not a big fan of arguments to be honist. Can i just say, anything outlawed is either outlawed for your own health or safety...


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## Jim1NZ

haha i like your evil eye post! Show it the steel cap


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## treesurgeon

OK people, over 100 posts about bs on drop starting. 
lets do 100 posts on chaps. not.


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## canguy21

I USED to drop start the big saws with my right hand on the wrap and left on the cord being left handed. That is, until I noticed a fresh hole in my jeans just below the keys in my pocket. No chainbrakes then. Never tried that again.


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## Sizzle-Chest

My wussy roomate wanted to use my 394 with 36" bar to cut some firewood, and I was showing him how to drop start it in our backyard. So he takes it with one hand on the handle and the other on the pull cord and gives it week jerk. Well, the cord didnt come out but maybe two inches, but managed to pull it into his leg and jabbed his thigh with the dawgs! It scared him so good he dropped the saw and said "I dont think I want to use it anymore." I tried not to laugh, but it was pretty funny.

edit: i just realized that my story made me seem sorta jerky, like I was fooling him or something. well, i showed him how to start it proper on the ground, but he wouldnt have it. he wanted to drop start it.


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