# Hourly Rate for a Pickup



## Mike Cantolina (Dec 1, 2010)

When I try to calculate an hourly rate for my pickup I consider it to be fully equipped. So it isn't just the price of the pickup but also: chainsaws, climbing gear, rigging gear, etc.

Is this what you guys do or do you try to calculate a rate for each individual item?


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## Blakesmaster (Dec 2, 2010)

Mike Cantolina said:


> When I try to calculate an hourly rate for my pickup I consider it to be fully equipped. So it isn't just the price of the pickup but also: chainsaws, climbing gear, rigging gear, etc.
> 
> Is this what you guys do or do you try to calculate a rate for each individual item?



I go off a day rate for myself and my gear. Or are you asking about letting someone use your stuff?


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## Mike Cantolina (Dec 2, 2010)

No, nobody else.

I use a day rate most of the time also.

I keep myself and the truck separate though. My rate can vary, where the truck rate shouldn't.

I'm just trying to get a closer figure on what I absolutely must charge for a truck fully equipped. It seems to me that we should all have a really similar rate on this.

I think the biggest variable would be the amount of days/hrs worked in a year.


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## treemandan (Dec 2, 2010)

At least a 100 bucks and hour but if its just you and the truck can you charge 800 for the day? Maybe but not always unless you can bang real good by yerself and do some work. Once or twice I made that for a day but depending on what you are doing 800 bucks is more like for 2 guys and a truck.


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## treemandan (Dec 2, 2010)

I take that all back, well some of it. I never understood this precalculated math ya'll be doing, just let me see the dam job first and we can go from there.


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## Mike Cantolina (Dec 2, 2010)

Working r-o-w I can remember a company charging $12/hr for a 4wd crew cab fully equipped. Their "fully equipped" is far from what I consider fully equipped but did include *basic* climbing & rigging gear. This didn't include any labor rates this was solely for the pickup.

$12hr x an 8hr day = $96/day

$96 x 200 working days = $19,200/yr

This is more of what I'm looking for. I remember now that their rate didn't include the saws. They charged for those separately but I would probably just include those also.


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## Bigus Termitius (Dec 3, 2010)

Mike Cantolina said:


> Working r-o-w I can remember a company charging $12/hr for a 4wd crew cab fully equipped. Their "fully equipped" is far from what I consider fully equipped but did include *basic* climbing & rigging gear. This didn't include any labor rates this was solely for the pickup.
> 
> $12hr x an 8hr day = $96/day
> 
> ...



I'd suggest that you don't subject yourself or equipment to anything ROW....unless you are on the row, naturally. If you must use it for a point of departure, consider doubling or tripling it. If I wanted to work, pay, or run my equipment and gear into the ground according to row rates...I'd be there. Been there....literally burned the T shirts. (private family and friends ceremony, the beer was good, the wind was right, and everyone got a turn.)

For example, lots of times folks want to forego a chipper, cause they think it's “cheaper.” They just want to pay for me and my gear and they'll clean up, or want it all taken to the burn pile. It's not cheaper. If I have to handle the brush at all, I might as well throw it in a chipper. The savings are minimal, if at all, and they have first dibs on fine chips if they go for a chipper. If I have to handle it more than once or transport it....it's more expensive. Of course, they’ll save some on final cleanup…that’s always a welcomed option, but nothing to do with a chipper either way.

I'm with dan...let me see the job, note the parameters, and go from there. There can be all kinds of relatively intangible factors I cannot readily explain to the average HO. I figure my time and expenses seasoned and factored with a difficulty quotient and other parameters and develop a bid on an above average predicted scenario.

If they want an itemized invoice...it's all going to cost more...way more...right down to the micro pulley and the time and effort to generate such a thing on paper. I’m not against accountability, just not real hot about disclosure of company information and processes that are beyond the client’s realm of understanding. It’s all honest business…just not all their business. No two jobs are the same, so I’m not going to have one client expect such and such based on the other client sharing information that doesn’t pertain. I’m real open about my process, just not open on my rates accordingly. In other words, I’ll tell you roughly how I figure it, without the actual figures, save the final figure. If they don’t like it, I refer them to a couple of local guys that I’m quite sure have it all figured out…according to the ROW. Good for them. They’ve managed to low ball me on every job and client I didn’t want. I owe them considerably beyond my ability to repay.

Whatever the case…the more someone presses me to save a dime…or micro manage the affair..beyond reason…the more expensive it gets. I feel I am reasonable and efficient, professional and safe, my rates are figured accordingly. Any compromise to that and it is going to cost more, not less, in general. Perhaps even prohibitively so.

If someone wanted to know what I was charging per hour for a pickup, I'd say: "I'm not....saves you a ton of money right there." They've covered my mileage sure, but why pay for something just sitting there? Chipper might be on site all day, but I’ve only got it figured for a couple hours and what it took to get it there and back. I’ll save a client money were I can, there are no hidden or unnecessary costs, but I’ve got to be profitable or I’m doing everyone and the industry a terrible disservice.

Take note, I'm not saying you are wrong, or doing anyone a disservice, just giving my opinion on the overall in general and trying to be helpful. It can be 6 one way, half a dozen another....just don't sell yourself short either way. Good Luck.


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## Mike Cantolina (Dec 3, 2010)

Bigus Termitius said:


> I'm with dan...let me see the job, note the parameters, and go from there. There can be all kinds of relatively intangible factors I cannot readily explain to the average HO. I figure my time and expenses seasoned and factored with a difficulty quotient and other parameters and develop a bid on an above average predicted scenario.



I've been doing it this way also and I feel I do pretty well. I don't show them what I charge for each item either.

I just want to make sure I'm charging enough for truck and gear to be able to replace them when needed. It's a sound business practice. The fact is the customers buy every thing we have unless we have another source of income.

The row reference was just an example to show what I'm trying to talk about. I know I can't use their prices. I didn't have the burn party but like you I was never so glad to leave a place.

I've been on my own for about 6 yrs. now.


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## ASETECH (Dec 5, 2010)

*management*

I think it is more of a management issue. Are you leaving some money in your business? Does the value and equity of the business grow as it ages. Are you building and investing the business or maintaining? Some people spend everything they have no matter what. Some people save money and have funds when they need repairs or maintenance.


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## imagineero (Dec 5, 2010)

hard to comment on this in the states, but I'm sure there is info available from motor vehicle owners associations etc re: the total cost of ownership of a vehicle. In aus its about AUD$10k~$12k a year for an average full size sedan/ute including tyres, depreciation, insurance, servicing and fuel. Funny enough buying used or new doesn't affect the formula which i can confirm having religiously kept track of my vehicle expenses over the last few years.

I figure most climbing gear and saws having a useful life of 2~3 years. If it lasts longer, that's a bonus, but at 2 years you really ought to be selling it off on ebay and buying new again. That's how big companies manage most of their equip0ment (vehicles, computers, etc). Add up all your gear, and divide it by 2 years. 

For me, my total basic cost of running my business is about AUD$20k/year, or about $400/week before I make dollar one. This includes business insurance, internet, accounting, computer, sick leave and 3 weeks paid holidays a year. You'd get these things in any other job, so why wouldn't you give them to yourself? This means $80/day average before I start to make money. My business breaks even at $1,000 a week for 20 hours at $50/hour. That's 2 big days. That gives me all my expenses plus $30k income per year for 20 hours. Bear in mind this is an *average*. I don't make $1,000 every week, and I don't work 20 hours every week, so don't fool yourself based on one week or even one months income. it's averaged out over the year and you ned to track it, on paper, to know where you stand. I have some great months, and some crappy ones, but on average for the year I'm doing those 20 hours a week. More than that and I start to do well for myself. 

Shaun


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## Mike Cantolina (Dec 5, 2010)

ASETECH said:


> I think it is more of a management issue. Are you leaving some money in your business? Does the value and equity of the business grow as it ages. Are you building and investing the business or maintaining? Some people spend everything they have no matter what. Some people save money and have funds when they need repairs or maintenance.



Good point, and yes I do save.


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## Mike Cantolina (Dec 5, 2010)

imagineero said:


> hard to comment on this in the states, but I'm sure there is info available from motor vehicle owners associations etc re: the total cost of ownership of a vehicle. In aus its about AUD$10k~$12k a year for an average full size sedan/ute including tyres, depreciation, insurance, servicing and fuel. Funny enough buying used or new doesn't affect the formula which i can confirm having religiously kept track of my vehicle expenses over the last few years.
> 
> I figure most climbing gear and saws having a useful life of 2~3 years. If it lasts longer, that's a bonus, but at 2 years you really ought to be selling it off on ebay and buying new again. That's how big companies manage most of their equip0ment (vehicles, computers, etc). Add up all your gear, and divide it by 2 years.
> 
> ...



A very good post. Thanks.

I do use Quickbooks and have a good amount of information to base my prices on. I've been trying to dial it in more each time though. I want to be able to see the difference between covering costs and true profit.

Thanks again!


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## Mike Cantolina (Dec 5, 2010)

After reading Imagineero's post, I found this site: http://www.motortrend.com/cars/2011...w_cab_pickup/101/cost_of_ownership/index.html

I'll be able to plug my numbers in and should be pretty well set for the pickup. Then I can focus more on gear costs.


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## imagineero (Dec 5, 2010)

doing the math can end up being more of an academic exercise than anything else. It's useful to know how much money you're making (or losing), but I wouldn't go basing my hourly rate on calculations like that. What you charge is the maximum that the market will bear. If the market will take a higher rate than what you need, good for you. If it pays less than what you need (a lot of guys in this position!) then you need to decide to keep working and make very little money or to shift to another area/industry.

I find there's a strong resistance among customers in my area to hire people above a certain hourly rate, and that rate is about $45~$50/hour. It doesnt seem to make any difference how much gear or experience you have, people will pay joe average handy man with $100 worth of tools and no real experience $45/hour, and they aren't willing to pay james superexpert an extra $20/hour even though he's got $20k worth of equipment and 30 years experience, can do a better quality of work and will complete the job in less time and at less overall cost than Joe. 

I know I need to recover $90/hour for chainsaw work for it to be worth my while, and people freak out at that price. So I only submit quotes for chainsaw work, I won't do hourly work. This makes the playing field much more level, and customers are more comfortable knowing their total cost and not having to watch the clock. I recover more money with quoted work than hourly work too strangely enough.

Shaun


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