# Buckingham Pinnacle vs. Petzl Mini Boss



## dc59222 (Jun 4, 2006)

i am looking to buy a saddle and i have narrowed it down to either the Pinnacle or the Mini Boss. i was wondering if anyone could give me any first hand information on these two saddles. the price difference is really not a factor. any other saddle suggestions are welcome as long as they incorporate the bosun seat. thanks.


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## jmack (Jun 6, 2006)

dc59222 said:


> i am looking to buy a saddle and i have narrowed it down to either the Pinnacle or the Mini Boss. i was wondering if anyone could give me any first hand information on these two saddles. the price difference is really not a factor. any other saddle suggestions are welcome as long as they incorporate the bosun seat. thanks.


running both of em, the pinnacle i have 4 big dees and am suspenders the one thing i dont like about the mini is you have to step into it rather than buckles, the small side dees get jammed if you have more than one snap or biner, no clip for a handsaw and its wider on the bosun than the pinnacle noticably when in tight trees, it is light and comfy and when sitting in it you can feel the difference ,pinnacle is hard to knock it is a bit heavier though, who are you buying from??? they have a lot of pinnacle options these days, wish petzel had the same btw both are exceelent saddles, what is gonna be the majority of your work??


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## dc59222 (Jun 6, 2006)

i will be using it for both takedowns and pruning work. really i climb in all kinds of trees. I worked two white pines today that were really tight... one cherry that was fairly straight... and an elm so i work in both open and tight trees... it varies alot from job to job. hell sometimes i wish i was climbing with just a belt and lanyard. i am looking for the most comfortable saddle with the most usable attachment points. i climb alot without spurs because at least 70% of our business is pruning or view work so i think weight may be a factor. i have been looking in wesspur. i thought about ordering from sherrills, but the kits from wesspur save alot of money. How much wider would you say the batten seat is for the mini boss compared to the pinnacle? i just ordered a miniboss and am expecting it next tuesday. i was really torn between the two saddles but after an excruciating (crotch pain and numb legs) experience yesterday with my boss's saddles, i was convinced that i needed to buy my own. i have only used a buckle saddle and never a step in.... is it that much of a difference(pain in the ass)? unfortunately the nearest arborist shop is about three hours from my location so i cannot got try them on. any more input will be greatly appreciated.


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## rbtree (Jun 6, 2006)

I had a Pinnacle, but prefer the Versatile..or Traverse. have heard little good about the Petzls...The Komet Butterfly is now my saddle of choice for pruning, the ll model is better, I'm sure. It is more streamlined than the batten seat saddles, but not quite as comfy. Most comfy of all is the New Tribe, it'll be my next saddle...


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## Bermie (Jun 6, 2006)

The Komet Evolution is a bosun seat saddle, our 'gummint tree unit use them, they seem to like them, I'm sticking with my Butterfly.


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## dakota (Jun 6, 2006)

dc59222 said:


> i will be using it for both takedowns and pruning work. at least 70% of our business is pruning or view work so i think weight may be a factor. QUOTE]
> 
> I'll take an extra pound or two in exchange for comfort (I'm throwing around the term _comfort_ pretty loosely). I have a Pinnacle and a Versatile and like them both way more than my first saddle (also playing fast and loose with terms again - my first seems more like a customized seatbelt than a saddle)


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## jmack (Jun 10, 2006)

dc59222 said:


> i am looking to buy a saddle and i have narrowed it down to either the Pinnacle or the Mini Boss. i was wondering if anyone could give me any first hand information on these two saddles. the price difference is really not a factor. any other saddle suggestions are welcome as long as they incorporate the bosun seat. thanks.


 yea i could not answer you pm try it again or just post that stuff here the real climbers will help you the wanna bees will volunter their negative stool as always nothing new there right??? j


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## jmack (Jun 10, 2006)

dc59222 said:


> i will be using it for both takedowns and pruning work. really i climb in all kinds of trees. I worked two white pines today that were really tight... one cherry that was fairly straight... and an elm so i work in both open and tight trees... it varies alot from job to job. hell sometimes i wish i was climbing with just a belt and lanyard. i am looking for the most comfortable saddle with the most usable attachment points. i climb alot without spurs because at least 70% of our business is pruning or view work so i think weight may be a factor. i have been looking in wesspur. i thought about ordering from sherrills, but the kits from wesspur save alot of money. How much wider would you say the batten seat is for the mini boss compared to the pinnacle? i just ordered a miniboss and am expecting it next tuesday. i was really torn between the two saddles but after an excruciating (crotch pain and numb legs) experience yesterday with my boss's saddles, i was convinced that i needed to buy my own. i have only used a buckle saddle and never a step in.... is it that much of a difference(pain in the ass)? unfortunately the nearest arborist shop is about three hours from my location so i cannot got try them on. any more input will be greatly appreciated.


call wesspur for the specs on the wideness, step in not bad even in snow and mud


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## avalontree (Jun 10, 2006)

*traverse*

I use a buckingham traverse with a hard seat and i love it
its like a cadillac
but i hvnt kept up with all of the new toys
but there are tie in points if you want to use the split
but I use a locking carabinier as a sliding "d" 
the sliding "d" is like goin' from Pay-less to nikes

good luck! you'll be in it for awhile!


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## Tree Machine (Jun 30, 2006)

I'm with Avalon here. Love the Buckingham *Versatile*, but I could love any saddle that had a bosun, a sliding D strap and quick clip buckles on the legs.

I am still, however, considering the MiniBoss as my next saddle, except it has no sliding D. There would be instant limitations on my climbing without it with no additional benefit in exchange. I've written Petzl on this.

Here's the Pinnacle you're talking about. Notice, it lacks a sliding D. The next model up from that is the Versatile, which differs only in that in addition to the side rings it has the sliding D strap. I use the Versatile.

Here's the Miniboss by Petzl. It also does not have a sliding D. This would drive me and Avalon nuts.

A helpful piece on the sliding D is a Delta-shaped quicklink (the triangular one). The biner attaches to this. Otherwise, the strap is too wide for the small end of a caribiner. Using a caribiner alone, you have to run it upside-down, which means flipping it every time you wanna off and on it. Annoying after a few hundred times.


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## dc59222 (Jun 30, 2006)

I have been using my miniboss for almost a month now, and I love it. It is very comfortable and light. The bosun seat is wide, but I have not found it to be a hinderence yet, even in some very tight trees I have done( hemlocks, white pines, trees that have been topped multiple times). The dee rings and the equipment attachments are rather small and can be hard to use. If Petzl would enlarge the dee rings and equipment attachments then this saddle would be hard to beat. One of the features that I like the most is the combination of a single dee ring and the two dee rings that gives you an option on where to tie in at. Sometimes the single dee gives you more mobility than the two dees, but the two dees are much more comfortable when you are suspended. All in all, the Mini Boss is hard to beat if you are looking for a traditional bosun seat saddle.


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## Tree Machine (Jul 2, 2006)

dc59222 said:


> If Petzl would enlarge the dee rings and equipment attachments then this saddle would be hard to beat.


I wrote them about this, too. I even redesigned the D rings for them and put togethera picture of how it might look with bigger D's.


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## Tree Machine (Jul 2, 2006)

I would have to convert the leg straps and affix them with quick-release buckles. Stepping through the waist, no problem. Stepping through the individual leg straps and adjusting them up, one at a time.... this is what I do with my rock climbing harness; no biggie because I only put that harness on about a half dozen times a year. The tree saddle can come on and off a half dozen times a day. I had to futz with my bransd new Versatile legstraps for a day, got really tired of the clumsy, steel, fit-one-through-the-other buckles that come stock, and converted them to quck release the next day. A marked improvement.

The Miniboss now comes with quick-connect leg buckles, doesn't it?


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## dc59222 (Jul 2, 2006)

mine didn't come with quick release buckles. this does not bother me though. i have gotten used to stepping into them and tightening them. i can get into my saddle and be fully adjusted as quickly as the two other guys on the crew that use more traditional style waste and leg buckles. the most annoying part for me is actually getting out of the saddle because you have to loosen the straps so much. by the way how did you convert the leg straps to quick connects? i would be interested in some pics. oh and i would want the lanyard dee rings bigger before the suspension dee rings so i could easily use an adjustable prussic lanyard in combination with a regular lanyard.


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## Tree Machine (Jul 4, 2006)

dc59222 said:


> mine didn't come with quick release buckles. this does not bother me though.


Good on you. i have gotten used to stepping into them and tightening them. i can get into my saddle and be fully adjusted as quickly as the two other guys on the crew that use more traditional style waste and leg buckles.


dc said:


> the most annoying part for me is actually getting out of the saddle


Take your thumb and your forefinger on both hands. Now reach up to your ears, fore fingers on top, thumbs down by your lobes. Now Squeeze, _hard_.


Now, the actual squeezing process only takes a fraction of a second. That's how long it takes to get out of my leg straps. This is a key point because its one of those repetitive tasks that you might repeat a number of times a day, weeek after week, year after year. Anytime you deal with something that is consistent and takes your time and effort, _and is the *same*_, its wise to look at how that task can be boiled down to the simplest, safest and most efficient form. 

As far as your ears, you don't need to squeeze the quick-buckles quite as hard as you did your ears  , but it's pretty much the same motion.:yoyo:


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## Tree Machine (Jul 4, 2006)

dc59222 said:


> i would want the lanyard dee rings bigger before the suspension dee rings so i could easily use an adjustable prussic lanyard in combination with a regular lanyard.


Big D's are a joy. Mebbe dual D's on each side.... That way you could tolerate that smaller size. That's a special order, custom build on a MiniBoss and I don't know if Petzl would accomodate us. I sort of doubt it.

I would love to use the Petzl MiniBoss, but they would have to build me one custom. As schweet as that saddle is, I would be going backwards in technology. It's just not equipped to maximize the climbing experience. Maybe on a tower, but not in a tree.

(it could be modified
but some (or all)of the stuff
you may have to do yourself))


As far as quick-connect buckles, you might have to look around, I don't know a direct source, Komet might help, I don't know. They have nice ones. I DO know that Petzl offers them on their saddles. I would check there first and see if they'll kick you down for free. You are, after all, a valued customer.


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## trevmcrev (Jul 4, 2006)

Tree Machine said:


>



Nice mod with the keeper on the delta 
Still laughing bout the ear squeezing example:hmm3grin2orange: 
Trev


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## Tree Machine (Jul 4, 2006)

trevmcrev said:


> Nice mod with the keeper on the delta
> Still laughing bout the ear squeezing example:hmm3grin2orange:
> Trev


Heh heh. Ok, that was a practical joke. My bad.


That Delta rig is nice, keeps your steel triple lock oriented in the proper direction. The wing mod to the Delta was because of just the thing mentioned; repetitive tasks. The Delta will flip around, the part acting as the 'roller' side ends up horizontal and dropping down, and the bend you see that has the biner in it goes to the top and cradles over top on the Sliding D strap. The biner, obeying the laws of gravity, drops to the bottom.

Every time it seemed, that I'd go to use it, the biner would have to be repositioned and the delta turned and oriented the proper direction. The wing offered two major benefits, first the flipping around of the Delta ended pronto. I tried out leather, plastic and stainless steel 'traps' to hold the biner captive. Bingo. All stays nicely oriented.

Second benefit, as in the delta shown above, has a small, curved wing, which, by the way, makes the delta a tool-less removal if you need to take it off by hand. Also if the screw part of the delta-shaped screwlink turns any amount, the wing misaligns and you see it clearly and immediately and you give it a little twist back into place.

I made up a few of these deltas, tried a few versions over a few years. Below is another pic of a different one. This one has a bigger wing and worked even better. Eventually I replaced that bigger wing delta with a totally different stepped-up improvement and used the deltas as accessory pieces, like in the pic below where I had the same complaint as dc, with the small D rings. This setup allowed maximal use of a small, right-side D, multiplying it's capacity.

Having _the ability to be more versatile_, this is good. Keeping multiple things coming off a single ring, keeping them separted and funtioning independently while not getting kajumbled with each other, this is _more_ good.

I hope some of this helps.


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## Tree Machine (Jul 9, 2006)

This was originally my intent for the winged delta, as a junction between saddle and flipline where to could clip your chainsaw lanyard and chainsaw onto it when you want to hip your saw. These deltas worked great, however they've been replaced by something even simpler, lighter smaller and more effective.


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## Fireaxman (Jul 9, 2006)

*Buckingham Traverse Delux*

Just got out of my 1985 Klein buttstrap for a Buckingham Traverse Delux. Spent the first full day in it Friday. Man! Wish the heck I had done THAT 10 years ago!!

2 sliding D's on a nice, wide, heavy duty strap, nice wide back pad with extra padding, batten seat just happens to fit me perfectly with all needed but no extra width, positioning D's just in front of the pelvic bones instead of just behind them; my goodness. I think I could enjoy a short nap in this thing, or at least a glass of wine and a sandwich. Dont even need to come out of the tree for lunch.


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## Tree Machine (Jul 9, 2006)

What makes it 'delux'?


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## Fireaxman (Jul 10, 2006)

*Buck Traverse "Deluxe"*



Tree Machine said:


> What makes it 'delux'?



The extra padding in the back ("Drylux") sold it to me, but you also get the pawl-style ("Quick Release") connections on the leg straps. And, they brag about "Fully Adjustable" seat and belt systems on the Deluxe model, but without a standard model to compare it to I'm not sure what they are talking about.


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## Tree Machine (Jul 10, 2006)

Here's the reality with adjustments. Once you get it adjusted to your liking, you probably will never adjust it again. I can't see where there would be any more adjustments than on the standard model. Like the thin little strips of adjustable webbing from the back pad down to the bosun seat, once those are set to where your bum seats nicely onto the board, they are adjusted.

One of the best mods I've done to my saddle (same as yours, pretty nearly) is I stitched wide seatbelt webbing to replace the stock bikini straps. You do this by hand with a sewing awl. You can tell by the wear in the saddle that this saddle has seen some hard days, especially in this back area. 

With the bosun board you can comfortably (and safely) straddle a limb as you would a horse and even slide backwards down a rough-barked limb and no wear to you derie'r or other important parts.


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## Fireaxman (Jul 10, 2006)

Tree Machine said:


> With the bosun board you can comfortably (and safely) straddle a limb as you would a horse and even slide backwards down a rough-barked limb and no wear to you derie'r or other important parts.



Good News! I was a little worried the butt board would get in my way, or I might break it, riding limbs. Glad to know it can take the PSI's.

Tried to view the movie, but my dial up went belly up. Maybe I've got too many files open, my system's acting kinda screwy. I'll try again tomorrow. Also tried to update my earlier post with a picture, but best I can tell something went wrong in the download.


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