# John Deere 648 (timber jack 460) vs cat 525



## Husky372bbported (May 13, 2016)

I've been shopping around and noticed that the timber jack 460 John Deere 648 and cat 525 are all with in a few grand of each other. As far as fuel consumption per hitch what is the better of the 2. I know I listed 3 but the timberjack 460 and 648 Deere are pretty much the same. Also what machine has the best longevity? Which machine can pull the most? Please keep in mind what ever one I go with it will be a dual arch with a winch.


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## bitzer (May 13, 2016)

I don't know anything about those particular machines but dealer support that is fairly local would be a big factor for me. Not only for getting parts, but mechanical advice as well. Also just because they are a few thousand dollars apart doesn't mean their use has been the same. One machine could be great, the next, a piece.


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## Barnie (Jun 5, 2016)

Ive owned a John Deere dual arch 648 with winch for a couple years now and I love it, pulls like mad, I usually get around 5-6 hitches per tank but its a longer pull to the landing with the grapple filled with maple, yellow birch. Had a couple issues with it but what machine doesn't.
Had the front transmission mount break and an overheating hydraulic pump other than that its been a good machine.


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## Husky372bbported (Jun 5, 2016)

Barnie said:


> Ive owned a John Deere dual arch 648 with winch for a couple years now and I love it, pulls like mad, I usually get around 5-6 hitches per tank but its a longer pull to the landing with the graple filled with maple, yellow birch. Had a couple issues with it but what machine doesn't.


When I was working for one company I ran a 91 or 92 648e dual arch no winch and I agree that son of a ***** pulled like no other. I heard cats are the same way. But it looks like there's more 648s available than the 525s. I don't know if it's cuz maybe the 525s are better and people want to keep them or what.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Jun 5, 2016)

I run a late 80s 648D. Also have a 1997 648GIII. Both dual arch.

Can't comment on the Cat, never have run one.

I usually grab 7-8 trees per pull (tree length). Not sure on fuel usage, we don't have a fuel meter on the service truck and no gages work on the D. I'd guess 10-15 gals in a day. The D holds around 30 gals, the G3 about 75 (has 2 tanks).

Usually pull in 5th gear, sometimes 6th. Just have to drop down on hills. Some of the steeper hills gave to lock the diff and use the grapple to help push, over wise it will just wheelie.

On the land we are logging right now, the pulls are about a mile each way.


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## Husky372bbported (Jun 5, 2016)

ValleyFirewood said:


> I run a late 80s 648D. Also have a 1997 648GIII. Both dual arch.
> 
> Can't comment on the Cat, never have run one.
> 
> ...


That's not bad fuel consumption for the size hitches. One question for you. What's the dbh on the size trees?


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## ChoppyChoppy (Jun 5, 2016)

The trees average 10-20" dbh. Take about 40-45 trees for a truck load (about 10 cords). 

I've found in the winter I can pull more, less drag with frozen ground and no leaves.
We keep the delimber at the landing and a dozer down there to push the log decks and push the branches away.


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## Husky372bbported (Jun 5, 2016)

That's not to bad then.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Jun 5, 2016)

Husky372bbported said:


> That's not to bad then.



Yeah I just have to keep bumping the grapple close lever otherwise they loosen up and slip out. The G3 has a detent that keeps clamping pressure.

I like the D better though, has more power and is a bit smaller so fits in the woods a bit better... even though the G3 is all fancy with a radio, A/C, etc.

Both skidders are chained up so they will pull pretty much as much as the grapple will hold.


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## Husky372bbported (Jun 5, 2016)

ValleyFirewood said:


> Yeah I just have to keep bumping the grapple close lever otherwise they loosen up and slip out. The G3 has a detent that keeps clamping pressure.
> 
> I like the D better though, has more power and is a bit smaller so fits in the woods a bit better... even though the G3 is all fancy with a radio, A/C, etc.


Yea sometimes the older machines are a lot better than the new ones. But the new ones are better than the old ones. It's like a double edge sword. I remember the e I ran had a constant pressure switch too


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## ChoppyChoppy (Jun 5, 2016)

One thing I'd recommend is dual arch. A local guy has a 525 single arch. While it does the job it's quite limited with just having the up and down.

The dual arch has much better reach plus can help to unstuck the skidder.

Parts are starting to get hard to find for the D. John Deere pretty much treats it as being obsolete which I think is nuts.
Recently had to put a valve body section and it took 4 months to source one. All the new skidders are pilot control.


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## Husky372bbported (Jun 5, 2016)

Yes i know all about the da lol. I love them a lot better than the sa. You can play with the hitch a lot more to minimize the scarring on trees along the rd plus they do lift higher which means less sharpening on the landing


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## 1270d (Jun 5, 2016)

Last grapple we had was a 648 dual arch. It was a 97, so whatever letter that is. sold it a couple years ago, but in the 16 or so years we had it it gave good service. A few engines, a transmission, hyd pumps center pins, pretty much everything replaced at one time or another. Deere service has taken a serious nose dive in last few years at least in my area.


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## Husky372bbported (Jun 6, 2016)

1270d said:


> Last grapple we had was a 648 dual arch. It was a 97, so whatever letter that is. sold it a couple years ago, but in the 16 or so years we had it it gave good service. A few engines, a transmission, hyd pumps center pins, pretty much everything replaced at one time or another. Deere service has taken a serious nose dive in last few years at least in my area.


I'm pretty sure that's a gII. Might be a gIII. How was it on fuel? Deere is usually pretty good around here. Where are you from?


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## ChoppyChoppy (Jun 6, 2016)

Deere doesn't do anything here, they don't even understand what a skidder is even. They just deal with compact tractors and smaller construction equipment like skid steers and small dozers.

We have to get parts from Pape in Oregon.


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## Husky372bbported (Jun 6, 2016)

ValleyFirewood said:


> Deere doesn't do anything here, they don't even understand what a skidder is even. They just deal with compact tractors and smaller construction equipment like skid steers and small dozers.
> 
> We have to get parts from Pape in Oregon.


That's rare for being the Pacific Northwest where logging is generally one of the main occupations out there.


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## 1270d (Jun 6, 2016)

I live in Upper Michigan. Deere service was kind of the gold standard for years, but in recent years it has slipped considerably. It's actually nortrax. They still have two of the best road mechanics in the business but they can't handle the volume of work and phone calls themselves. I can't comment on the fuel consumption. I worked little with the tree length crew and then didn't pay attention to fuel burn.


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## Scablands (Jun 7, 2016)

ValleyFirewood said:


> We have to get parts from Pape in Oregon.


You can get Pape to answer the phone?


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## ChoppyChoppy (Jun 7, 2016)

Scablands said:


> You can get Pape to answer the phone?



Yup and parts from Oregon to the shop in 2-3 days usually.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Jun 7, 2016)

Husky372bbported said:


> That's rare for being the Pacific Northwest where logging is generally one of the main occupations out there.



You'd think a Deere is a Deere but go ask for skidder parts at Craig Taylor. May as well ask for a water pump for a 1970 VW Beattle.


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## Skeans (Jun 7, 2016)

ValleyFirewood said:


> Deere doesn't do anything here, they don't even understand what a skidder is even. They just deal with compact tractors and smaller construction equipment like skid steers and small dozers.
> 
> We have to get parts from Pape in Oregon.


I hate doing business with Pape they are a pain in the rear to say the least, now for a skidder they aren't used much out here for small ones such as a 648 lots of clam bunk style and shovel logging as well as the 517 527. Now for the difference the older cats the front diffs were always locked up and you'd hop a lot plus they had air brakes.

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## Husky372bbported (Jun 7, 2016)

I know a lot of guys out here run the 648s I don't see any cats around here. The company I work for had a cat 518 and that thing wouldn't stop pulling


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## ChoppyChoppy (Jun 8, 2016)

Skeans said:


> I hate doing business with Pape they are a pain in the rear to say the least, now for a skidder they aren't used much out here for small ones such as a 648 lots of clam bunk style and shovel logging as well as the 517 527. Now for the difference the older cats the front diffs were always locked up and you'd hop a lot plus they had air brakes.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk



A 648 is small? What do you consider a 440?


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## ChoppyChoppy (Jun 8, 2016)

ValleyFirewood said:


> A 648 is small? What do you consider a 440?



No trouble with Pape either, been using them for 20+ years.


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## Skeans (Jun 8, 2016)

ValleyFirewood said:


> No trouble with Pape either, been using them for 20+ years.


Been dealing with them since they bought out Hessel Tractor in Portland knowing what I do about them and how the company is i prefer to not do any business with them.

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## Skeans (Jun 8, 2016)

ValleyFirewood said:


> A 648 is small? What do you consider a 440?


Out here they are on the clear cutting sides, if you see a skidder out here its one of the 6 Wheel tigercat clam bunk setups. We ran a 440 converted with a 540 long grapple back end in the thinning when we tree lengthed all the time but here for other then a one or two guy show you won't see small equipment. The standard shovel has become a 568 cat, cable assist cutting is getting big here as well too everything is getting well our wood is getting smaller.

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## ChoppyChoppy (Jun 8, 2016)

Interesting.

Out here there's only maybe 7-8 skidders around and the 648s are by far the biggest. Got laughed at when bought actually... "too big".
Only 2 other guys I know with buncher and 1 with a delimber. We are pretty much the "big dog" haha.


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## Husky372bbported (Jun 8, 2016)

The 648s are very common out here in western mass. Skids are getting longer and terrian is getting real rough. Finding spots to put landings are becoming more difficult and this young gen of loggers (like myself) are very rare.


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