# Are fire bricks necesarry?



## p575 (Nov 23, 2012)

I have an older woodstove, Craft is the name brand. When I got it from my grandparents, it didn't have any bricks in it when I got it. I've been burning it for a few years without any in it. Am I asking for trouble? If it does need them, do they just go in the bottom or do the sides need to be lined as well?


----------



## NDtreehugger (Nov 23, 2012)

I use bricks everywhere I can.

If you have a thin stove you will warp it without bricks. I’ve never seen a burn through but have heard of them. The stove will hold its heat better a lot better if you have bricks,

And a biggie, with bricks the hot coals and embers will last long enough to start your morning fire. I have found the stove in my shop will hold coals for 2 days and are hot enough to re-start a fire.


----------



## p575 (Nov 23, 2012)

If you put them on the side, how do you keep them in place? I've never messed with them.


----------



## Mac88 (Nov 23, 2012)

Is your stove steel plate or cast iron? No fire brick in our Vermont Castings, and no place to put any.


----------



## pilgrim5 (Nov 23, 2012)

*You can use refractory cement*

Most good stove shops or brick yards sell the fire brick and the cement to stick them together Here in Minnesota Coring-Donahiew <spelling? in Saint Paul sell the stuff its spendy but fireproof when set up. I have used it in setting tiles in chimineys made from block and used as a liner worked great!


----------



## PEKS (Nov 23, 2012)

Newer designed stove's have steel slots or brackets on the side's to secure the fire-bricks in place..


----------



## PEKS (Nov 23, 2012)

Mac88 said:


> Is your stove steel plate or cast iron? No fire brick in our Vermont Castings, and no place to put any.



They built those older VC's like a tank, we don't need no stinkin bricks..


----------



## CTYank (Nov 23, 2012)

A major benefit of firebrick lining of stove firebox, is to keep it hot, keeping combustion temps high. Results in more complete combustion, enabling higher efficiency.

Works for me.


----------



## shawnw (Nov 23, 2012)

PEKS said:


> They built those older VC's like a tank, we don't need no stinkin bricks..


We've got like 4 complete stoves, and they're all amazing.


----------



## saxono3 (Nov 23, 2012)

PEKS said:


> Newer designed stove's have steel slots or brackets on the side's to secure the fire-bricks in place..



I have two Hitzer stoves that have the slots. Putting in new bricks is easy. Funny thing, when my son lived at home (big kid, weighs 20 pounds more than me) he would throw the wood in like he was mad at the stove. The bricks never stood a chance. Since he got older and got his own place Ive never changed a brick. Down side is I'm the only one that feeds the stove around here now.:msp_mad:


----------



## Mac88 (Nov 23, 2012)

PEKS said:


> They built those older VC's like a tank, we don't need no stinkin bricks..



No kiddin'. Ours is 24 years old. We finally tore it down this past spring, dug out all the cement, and resealed it, including fresh gaskets. It'll probably outlive me.


----------



## turnkey4099 (Nov 24, 2012)

PEKS said:


> Newer designed stove's have steel slots or brackets on the side's to secure the fire-bricks in place..



They were building them that way at least in the early 80s - I am still on my second set of bricks - The lumberyards are very proud price wise of them things. I thought at first they were selling gold bricks when I saw the price.

Harry K


----------



## Fred Wright (Nov 24, 2012)

Plate steel stoves need firebrick. The cast iron stoves usually don't. If your stove came from the factory with brick, rebrick it.

I'm no expert, just going on what I've experienced. The old Riteway we had years ago had brick surrounding the bottom of the sidewalls with metal brackets to hold 'em in place. The US King we have now is lined with brick, bottom and sides with the side bricks standing on end.

There's no cement holding the bricks in the King. They're fitted to stay in place. I had to replace some of 'em last year... just pulled the broken ones out and put the new ones in.


----------



## bing (Jan 22, 2013)

Mac88 said:


> No kiddin'. Ours is 24 years old. We finally tore it down this past spring, dug out all the cement, and resealed it, including fresh gaskets. It'll probably outlive me.



Was it worth the effort for the teardown? Did you find blocked passageways, etc. Did it improve performance?

I run a 1986 VC Defiant Encore in my shop and I love it for efficiency. Well designed stove IMO. Top load and ash dump tray is very convenient.


----------



## Mac88 (Jan 22, 2013)

bing said:


> Was it worth the effort for the teardown? Did you find blocked passageways, etc. Did it improve performance?
> 
> I run a 1986 VC Defiant Encore in my shop and I love it for efficiency. Well designed stove IMO. Top load and ash dump tray is very convenient.



Well, it was a lot cheaper than replacing the stove. The Mrs put a lot of effort into cleaning all the cement out of the joints, right down to bare metal. The "combustion pack" that goes in the back had never been replaced and it was pretty much falling apart. We replaced a couple of the metal grates that had sagged. No blocked passageways. It burns better, more control, after replacing all the gaskets. It took a couple days to do, and we have around $300 bucks invested, including all the parts, shipping, and the wire brushes we bought to clean all the cement out of the seams. The biggest PITA was lining up the truss rods that hold it all together.


----------



## KindredSpiritzz (Jan 22, 2013)

I don't get the fire brick concept. I understand making the burning chamber hotter to burn more of the gases but then doesnt that hinder your heat transfer to the room or heat chamber??I'd think more heat would be trapped in the stove and just end up going up the flue wasted. I could see on the bottom to prevent burn thru where the coals sit, but i dont see how doing the sides would help more than hinder your heat making output.
What am i missing??


----------



## Chris-PA (Jan 22, 2013)

My US Stoves Magnolia has brick on the bottom and a row of bricks on the sides standing on end, sort of self-supporting with no brackets. There is plenty of steel exposed above that and at the top for heat transfer, as well as the window. They hold and concentrate the heat at the bottom to keep the secondary combustion going at the top. 

They erode over time and I replace them with ones I get at the local ACE, but I have to trim about 1/2" off the side of those. I just mark them and score them from each side with a diamond wheel on my 4" grinder.


----------



## stumpy75 (Jan 22, 2013)

The older Buck stoves only used brick if you were going to burn coal. Otherwise, the manual says it is not needed. As mentioned, the older stoves were built with a lot more steel and cast in them then some of the newer ones. Mine is late 1980s vintage. I've never used brick in it.


----------



## AndrewGeib (Jan 22, 2013)

Replace fire brick and use the refractory cement to stick in place, just butter up the back side of the brick and stick in place. If you need to cut them use a circular saw with diamond blade. When ur done you can give it a wash coat of the cement, spread on thin layer by hand paint brush dipped in water and brush it to smooth it out don't make it too wet it will shrink and start to crack. A wash coat will protect against chipping the brick


----------



## CTYank (Jan 22, 2013)

KindredSpiritzz said:


> I don't get the fire brick concept. I understand making the burning chamber hotter to burn more of the gases but then *doesnt that hinder your heat transfer to the room* or heat chamber??I'd think more heat would be trapped in the stove and just end up going up the flue wasted. I could see on the bottom to prevent burn thru where the coals sit, but i dont see how doing the sides would help more than hinder your heat making output.
> What am i missing??



Not in the slightest. In a properly designed stove, as opposed to a big vacant box, the hot gases are routed from the firebox, under the top from front to rear (giving off much heat also to internally exposed sides), then up and out at the rear. Or something similar. You most definitely want "more heat trapped in the stove FIREBOX."

In my little Morso, it's possible to have the front of the top at 750 F and the smokepipe just above the stove at 300 F, then 220 F two feet further away. See the picture? As hot as possible for combustion efficiency, THEN work on dumping the heat. Organized schizophrenia? 

It burns so completely that outside, downwind, you can barely pick up the scent.


----------



## H 2 H (Jan 22, 2013)

CTYank said:


> Not in the slightest. In a properly designed stove, as opposed to a big vacant box, the hot gases are routed from the firebox, under the top from front to rear (giving off much heat also to internally exposed sides), then up and out at the rear. Or something similar. You most definitely want "more head trapped in the stove FIREBOX."
> 
> In my little Morso, it's possible to have the front of the top at 750 F and the smokepipe just above the stove at 300 F, then 220 F two feet further away. See the picture? As hot as possible for combustion efficiency, THEN work on dumping the heat. Organized schizophrenia?
> 
> It burns so completely that outside, downwind, you can barely pick up the scent.



Yep

My Comfort stove has 7 bricks across the top of the fire box that holds the gasses and heat in; I didn't know the difference till I replaced some cracked bricks and changed the door gasket how much heat I was losing


----------



## KindredSpiritzz (Jan 22, 2013)

ok, do those same principles apply to an indoor wood furnace then too? or just free standing stoves? maybe thats where im getting mixed up?


----------



## albert_ (Oct 23, 2016)

I don't know some of the more modern small and larger wood stoves have various types of heat diffusion along with from simple and to more sophisticated venting. For tiny wood stoves prices range from around ~$500.00 to over a ~$1000.00. Targeted markets are people with small cabins, RV's, tiny homes, boats, etc.

All the indoor and indoor / outdoor stoves I've looked at use firebricks where some have double wall construction. Some come with an ash box where ones without an ash box, you usually need to let the fire die down in order to remove ash to make room for more wood. This can be a problem if you constantly need make room inside the stove when adding wood every ~2 hours or so.

The ones without firebricks usually cost much less and normally are rated as outdoor stoves designed for tents, etc.

However some of much older smaller stoves never used firebricks and have been reported to work very well, claimed to be better than many of the modern ones with firebricks.

One person with three small wood stoves replaced the firebricks with 1.5" cast iron pipe and claim he burns half the amount of wood than with the firebricks installed. Says with firebricks the stove internally burns more wood and hotter where more heat goes up the flue, thus more wood is required to maintain stove heat output.

Firebricks do provide insulation and normally allow a stove to burn hotter internally. I'm not certain about a ratio to the amount of fuel required, heat output and time (duration).

Firebricks are necessary for burning fuel such as coal but not normally required for wood fuel.


----------



## stihlfanboy (Oct 23, 2016)

When I got my vc defiance they guy that restored it put firebrick in the bottom, cut and cemented in, I ripped them all out. Was actually blocking the return tubes for the gas to come back into the camber to reburn. And to whoever asked about if it's worth it to rebuild them, yes it is. My farther inlaw rebuild his defiance last year and it made a huge difference, but did cost around 500 in parts.


----------

