# Training video, felling a side leaner



## Ekka

Finally got the perfect specimen for the job, side leaner and side weighted.

We use the adjusted gun technique along with a side rope.

2 camera angles, slow motion, detailed so if anyones wondering about this now wonder no longer.

My only additional bit of advice would be to put a little steam on the side rope. I purposefully had it a little slack so it wouldn't radically influence the trees fall just for vid but as I finished the back cut the saw got pinched.

Anyway, a good show.

4.40mins and 23.4mb WMV

http://www.palmtreeservices.com.au/video/sidelean.wmv


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## BlueRidgeMark

First class training video, Eric. Very helpful.



Was the saw pinch due to the side lean or was there some weight to the back?


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## Ekka

It pinched the nose of the bar due to the side lean. It was also weighted to the side.


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## Canyon Angler

Very interesting Ekka. Thank you for posting up.

Boy, I would have been running as soon as I had that saw unpinched...if not before!


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## JayD

Hi Ekka,
Nice job on the side leaner,I noticed that you tied your 90 deg rope of at the front bumper of the truck,be careful ive seen roo bars rip clean off during recovery of a 4wd drive,If you are going to do more re inforce behind the bar across the chassis so if it shock loads it'll handle it,please don't take this as a pick at your work, it would a pain in the butt to have to pay the excess for the cost of a small mod.
All The Best


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## Ekka

JayD, it's tied to a tow hook bolted to the chasis underneath.


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## trevmcrev

Nice one!


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## CRN Tree

nice training video just one question would a bore cut have worked better possibly not pinching the saw? or do you need to cut from behind to start the tree swinging on the side rope?


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## Ekka

CRN Tree said:


> nice training video just one question would a bore cut have worked better possibly not pinching the saw? or do you need to cut from behind to start the tree swinging on the side rope?



I've been waiting for it and finally BINGO, yes a bore cut would have been better.

Set up the hinge and cut backwards till thru. Also you could have left a strap, wedged the bore and then cut the strap.

So, you get a prize, pic attached, just PM me your details and it'll arrive in the post. Good one.


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## jstarnes

Wow! Thanks for the insight!!!


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## BranchWalker74

You really make me want to start taking my video camera on the job with me. You folks down under use the coolest words. I never heard anyone call a highway cone a witches hat. Also you always have a good taste in music.


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## Ekka

BranchWalker74 said:


> You really make me want to start taking my video camera on the job with me. You folks down under use the coolest words. I never heard anyone call a highway cone a witches hat. Also you always have a good taste in music.



Haha, around these parts if ya asked a groundy to grab a few cones he'd be like a THer looking for a buzz, if ya know what I mean. lol :hmm3grin2orange:


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## Goat

Did you cut your hinge at a bit of an angle to the notch or did you just cut parallel? I'm curious if that tree could have been done with the tapered hinge technique...


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## Ekka

Tapered hinge would not have held that up, as it was it leaned on the saw in the back cut.

Scarf was dead horizontal, you could see it was lined up level with the fence.


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## JayD

*180 deg to 90 *

You don't necessarily need a level to pick, Horizontal..the top of the fence like ,Ekka says,you can also pick it from the brickwork,the eve line,even the horizon just to name a few..some bush techniques work then and they will work into the future..just remember the old saying there's more than one way to skin a cat.


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## nitwit dolt

*Train Vid*

Instead of telling you what I think, I'll just ask. Why cut so high up the trunk?


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## Ekka

So you get a good video without the fence in the way.


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## nitwit dolt

*Train Vid*

Vanity over safety?


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## Ekka

nitwit dolt said:


> Vanity over safety?



Hey nitwit, it's below shoulder or neck height.


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## nitwit dolt

*Train vid*

Not trying to be a nitwit. When I train I teach my guys to eliminate all unknowns. When you throw that much wood you bring a hop. I have some idea whats gonna happen when it hops, but I don't know exactly whats going to happen. So go low and use a wide scarf, don't throw it lay it down. I also like as much leverage as I can generate when pulling over trees. Let the physics work for you as much as possible. All that being said, factors change from tree to tree sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. As I say, thats why they pay me the big bucks. My question was posed on the basis of finding out if there was some technical reason you made a 'more' dangerous cut in a training video. 

Good stuff, though.


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## Kikori

*Pay no attention to the nitwit!*

Apparently he is so busy making the big bucks that he forgot to pay attention to the focus of the video---"felling a side leaner." Nitwit-you don't need to nit pick the genius from down under!


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## Ekka

Hey Nitwit (I really think you need to change that name though).

Do you fell more trees than you climb? 

You see, if you climb a lot of trees and cut them down you'd have no problem cutting at that height when you are blocking down. In fact your working range is around chest ht.

Also, hopping? What are you doing hanging around the butt if this occurs, once the trees going you clear out ... you aint there. I use the hopping technique up trees to hop them over obsticles like garden edges, fences, lights etc, perfecting this technique whilst in the tree earns you big bucks cause whilst others stuff around blocking down something I've bombed it out wholus bolus over a fence etc. Hopping is good, it gets the butt of the tree away from the stump.


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## tree_beard

*a thousand experts in a thousand fields...*

if youre felling for timber or in a dense stand where you are likely to get hung up then cutting close to the ground for the 'extra leverage' is advisable.

uk training courses in tree felling are based on forestry (logging) methods, and you would fail your test for cutting above ground level...

but when felling a tree purely for the purposes of removing it, it is usually easier to cut a bit higher so you can make and see all your cuts without having to crouch/squat/piddle around in the dirt...


somewhere between knees and nipples works best for me


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## nitwit dolt

*Train vid*

I have to tell you, I think you've been hanging around here too much. I am not trying to discredit anything you did. I'm not trying to question your abilities in any way, shape, or form. You have have certainly proven your knowledge and your abilities many times over on this site. Hell, I'm on the other side of the world and I'd recommend you to anyone who needs work done. Sorry to say it but that's not true of everyone on this site. I simply was asking, why making things more dangerous than they need to be. It may not be for you, or me, or some of the experienced arborists on this site, but it is more dangerous. I hop buts all the time, but never with out a reason. If climbing a removal, I'll cut anywhere, any how, "I" feel is the most safe, and yeah sometimes it isn't safe at all, but that's the only way to make it work. When both feet are on the ground, it's different story. Then it's time to drop habits that are aquired in the air (one handed cutting.). Practice doesn't make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect.


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## DonnyO

tree_beard said:


> somewhere between knees and nipples works best for me



Words to live by!!!!!


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## Ekka

lol


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## bottlefed89

Great video. No reason in particular, but I've never gone in the video section here, looks like I have some catching up to do in watching all the vids you've made. Thanks...


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## dimanager

Ekka, is the scarf shallower than normal? I could not tell from the vid.
Great video by the way.

Sam


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## Ekka

It's about right, around 1/3 the way in.


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## wdchuck

Hour and a half to download, but learned quite a bit, will be applying on tree that fits this one well. 

Will have to check out more of Ekka's seminars.

Thanks.


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## joesawer

Cutting low, both feet on the ground, and still cutting shoulder high. 
Rocked my chain bucking the tree before this one. Made for an ugly back cut.
Your high cut looked safe enough to me. In fact CDF fallers (well cutters or whatever you call them) almost allways cut high then cut the stump off close to the ground. They claim it is safer. But then I won't be taking felling lessons from them either.
The biggest reasons for low stumps in logging is to save log length and to not have high stumps in the way of skidding.


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## BlueRidgeMark

joesawer said:


> CDF fallers (well cutters or whatever you call them) almost allways cut high then cut the stump off close to the ground. They claim it is safer.




Hmmm. Cutting waist high or so, saw at a comfortable height, both feet firmly planted, spread a bit for more stability...

vs. 

Squatting to get the lowest possible cut, arms stretched out using strength to lift the saw, rather than to control the saw...


I don't see how squatting could be safer, except under some very unusual circumstances.


Of course for a lumber faller, saving those few board feet is very important, and I'm not arguing against that. Just don't see how a flush cut could be safer than something done more standing up.


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## Ekka

Joesawyer

Nice pics, what sort of tree was that?

And I take it for logging what you are doing there is spot on. Get as much as you can out of the timber.


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## maxburton

I always cut at a comfortable height unless the logs are headed for the mill. Cutting on your knees like that and holding the saw away from your body is difficult. By the way, the notch looks odd in the second picture. It looks like the cuts don't line up and there's a little wall in the back. What's that about? Or am I seeing things?


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## joesawer

The tree is a dead white fir.
Squating in the akward position becouse my bar wouldn't reach through form the high side and it was the only way I could cut the low side without sliding down the hill. 
There is an 8" max stump highth in the contract. If I cut the stump waist high on the high side I would really be stretching to reach the low side, and then I would have to cut the stump off at 8" And then there would be an unmerchantable round laying around. On steep ground this can be dangerous to for anyone working below. 
There is a gap at the back of the"notch". There are many different reasons for doing this. It gives the fibers more room to bend, it gives more room for your back cut to line up with the notch. 
Also when gunning (sighting) your face (notch) cuts when your second cut is parallel to your first cut but the angles have not met, rather than cutting deeper with first cut and then the second cut until they meet and then going to the other side of the tree and repeating becouse the bar won't reach the far side, I just break the cut out with my ax. It is much easier. If any of you try this make sure it breaks out clean, if not you have to clean out any remaining pieces with your saw and ax. 
If I had cut a "sipe" (a steeper third angle cut usually about half way between the hinge and the front edge of the stump). The gap would have the same effect as a wider face.


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## DPDISXR4Ti

Linky no worky. Is there a new address for this video? I recall it helping me out tremendously about this same time a year ago.


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## Rickytree

I didn't see anything unsafe about that video at tall. what size rope was the side rope and was it cinched up real tight? Great video KING EKKa


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## DPDISXR4Ti

Rickytree said:


> I didn't see anything unsafe about that video at tall. what size rope was the side rope and was it cinched up real tight? Great video KING EKKa



How the heck are you getting that video to work? I get this error message...

Not Acceptable
An appropriate representation of the requested resource /video/sidelean.wmv could not be found on this server.

Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.


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## Rickytree

Brad try typing the address in yourself rather than using the link! Good luck


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## DPDISXR4Ti

Rickytree said:


> Brad try typing the address in yourself rather than using the link! Good luck



Perfect! Some cut & paste action and it worked like a charm. Thanks!


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## Ekka

Rickytree said:


> I didn't see anything unsafe about that video at tall. what size rope was the side rope and was it cinched up real tight? Great video KING EKKa



The side rope was 9000kg breaking strength.

No, I did not cinch it up tight, I had it a little slack on purpose to stack the odds against me.

Normally I would put a little pressure on it, maybe 500kg, however I wanted to show that it works. Had I have cinched it up tight then some-one would argue I pulled the tree around etc. :monkey:


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## DPDISXR4Ti

As long as this thread is back in play, I have a question... How was the offset angle determined between the scarf angle and fall line?


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## Ekka

It's simple really.

You stand at the trunk, look up, walk out the required amount until you are satisfied you are beneath the area you want to use as the "centre or head". Then pace it out to the trunk.

Then walk out the approximate distance of the tree, step out the distance of offset to the opposite direction. Put a marker down because that is where you need to line up your notch.

The diagrams below should help.


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## 046

ekka... many thanks for sharing! 

very useful information.


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## DPDISXR4Ti

What they said....  

If you're inspired, feel free to drop in on this "leaner with a twist" thread....

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?p=1199962#post1199962


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