# A winch for getting firewood



## MontanaMan (Jul 14, 2009)

Hey folks: 

I get firewood here in Western Montana with an F250 ... usually on old logging roads cut on the side of steep slopes. I'm really tired of seeing fantastic-looking 25" snags 70 or 80 feet away up a steep slope where it would be impossible to take my truck, and a PITA to roll the Firewood rounds down the hill.

So ... I'm thinking of getting a winch. I only do about 6 cords a year, so I don't think the winch would get a lot of use. Just for firewood, recovery, and the occasional odd job. It's one of those things where It's just really great to have it when you need it.

I saw a 10000 lb "Gorilla" brand winch on eBay ... anybody ever use one of those? I can fab a mount for it on the front of my truck, and install a second battery if necessary.

I've never used a winch before, so any advice about selection, mounting, using to skid logs, etc would be much appreciated. Any links to more info on the net would also be appreciated.

PS: I've searched and searched, but still have lots of unanswered questions.

Thanks!!


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## Shagbark (Jul 14, 2009)

We use a 100' cable with a Walingford Choker. Pull the logs out without a winch. Use the Front tow hooks or rear hitch. We probably have the luxury of more area, so a winch is not necessary. I have experience with Ramsey winch. I would recommend Ramsey.


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## Slick (Jul 14, 2009)

I just got my first winch a few months back, almost got one of those gorillas, ended up with a 8,000 smittybuilt xrc8...good deal at about $315 shipped. I've been happy with it, made my own mount for a hitch on the front bumper or rear hitch if needed. Be sure to get a snatch block also.


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## stihl sawing (Jul 14, 2009)

Have used a winch many times to pull logs with, The only advice i can give you is buy quality. i have owned cheap ones that wouldn't hold up. If you start pulling logs with them you are going to put a strain on one. The price may sound good but it likely isn't going to hold up under a lot of hard use.


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## avalancher (Jul 14, 2009)

stihl sawing said:


> Have used a winch many times to pull logs with, The only advice i can give you is buy quality. i have owned cheap ones that wouldn't hold up. If you start pulling logs with them you are going to put a strain on one. The price may sound good but it likely isn't going to hold up under a lot of hard use.




:agree2:

Over the long haul, that winch will get used more than you think.Once you have one, you will dream up more and more for it to do.buying cheap will mean only one thing, you will end up being stranded somewhere without a working winch.
Ramsey and Warn both make some good winches,pay the extra bucks and get a good tool rather than something that will just end up in the garbage heap.


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## Wildman1024 (Jul 14, 2009)

Just pay the extra money now for a quality winch! I bought one of those gorilla winches for my atv and it was junk. Seemed ok at 1st until I looked at the quality of my buddy's warn. Also it always seems to not work or break when you need it. Just do yourself the favor and buy a quality one the 1st time. It's cheaper in the end anyways cause it didn't cost you more to replace the junk you bought the 1st time


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## stihl sawing (Jul 14, 2009)

I bought this one cheap and out of the first fives uses it broke three times, Now mile marker did warrenty it but it will not hold up. It has not pulled nothing hard either.








This old warn winch has been on three trucks and it has never failed me. It has been beat to death too. I pulled stumps out of the ground with with it a few times. it pulled so hard it broke the welds on the mount and on the truck frame. Also have a warn 9000 lb on my dodge, it has seen a lot of abuse so far with no trouble.


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## MontanaMan (Jul 14, 2009)

Thanks for the replies ... I agree with you about quality. I use only Stihl Pro saws. But for only 6 cords a year, its really hard to justify $900.00, and I can't really find any used high-pound winches. I'm almost down to deciding between a cheap winch or no winch.

What if I bought a cheap winch with more power than really needed, like a 12,000 lb winch? Would that maybe hold up better?

Are there other ways to get distant logs without a winch? I've got a Heavy trailer hitch on my truck.

Also ... whatever winch I get, would you recommend 2 batteries in parallel?

Thanks.


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## stihl sawing (Jul 14, 2009)

MontanaMan said:


> Thanks for the replies ... I agree with you about quality. I use only Stihl Pro saws. But for only 6 cords a year, its really hard to justify $900.00, and I can't really find any used high-pound winches. I'm almost down to deciding between a cheap winch or no winch.
> 
> What if I bought a cheap winch with more power than really needed, like a 12,000 lb winch? Would that maybe hold up better?
> 
> ...


Cheap is cheap, no matter what size it is. If you're not going to do much with it then they may work out, But trust me if you buy one you will use it for more things than you know about right now. Pulling logs up inclines is hard on anything. I melted the ends off of my battery connections on one by overloading it pulling logs. They seem to catch and drag dirt and brush with them as they are pulled. My dodge is hooked up 24 volt, but it is a cummins and they are that way from the factory. The old ford is just a single battery and it never seemed to be any difference. Using a snatch block will take a lot of load of the winch when heavy logs are pulled. No matter what winch you buy, Invest in a decent snatchblock and DO NOT cheap out on them. I have seen them ovaled out and broke. you don't want to be near one when it breaks under a hard load.


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## Damraider (Jul 14, 2009)

You could just buy some cable, good snatch blocks, and tree straps and use the truck as the winch . It would take some rigging but it would be much faster .
Truck winches are not designed for long sustained pulls , you will burn out the motor pretty fast using it that way, not to mention the battery or altenator won't keep up ( Hard pulls take 300-400 amps of continous power) .


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## MontanaMan (Jul 14, 2009)

Anybody know anything about the WARN 5687? It's an older, upright model. 8000 lbs.

There's one on CL for $400. Says very fast, very reliable, "fresh motor."


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## Damraider (Jul 14, 2009)

That model only has cable controls ( inside the vehicle) , no remote . No power out either .


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## MontanaMan (Jul 14, 2009)

Damraider said:


> You could just buy some cable, good snatch blocks, and tree straps and use the truck as the winch . It would take some rigging but it would be much faster .
> Truck winches are not designed for long sustained pulls , you will burn out the motor pretty fast using it that way, not to mention the battery or altenator won't keep up ( Hard pulls take 300-400 amps of continous power) .



Not a bad idea ... 2 or 3 snatch blocks + cable would be a lot cheaper than a winch ... I could use standing trees as anchors and pull the truck at a right angle to the slope that way.


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## stihl sawing (Jul 14, 2009)

MontanaMan said:


> Anybody know anything about the WARN 5687? It's an older, upright model. 8000 lbs.
> 
> There's one on CL for $400. Says very fast, very reliable, "fresh motor."





Damraider said:


> That model only has cable controls ( inside the vehicle) , no remote . No power out either .


That's the model on the ford i posted, They are fast and mine does have power line out. No remote. never needed a remote. You have to get out of the truck to hook a line up anyway. Sounds like a lot of money though. Although they are expensive now.


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## avalancher (Jul 14, 2009)

Here is my rig for pulling firewood logs, as it sits in the bed of my trailer.





Warn 4000lb portable winch,snatch block, and 30ft remote.it has done everything I have ever asked it to, and has held up for three years now except for a few minor repairs.With a seperate battery, I can move the winch from the front of the trailer to the sides,pull stuff in from the back,over the sides and even move it around to the front of the truck if/when I get stuck which isnt often.
Only one time did the winch fail to pull me out with the snatch block, I was buried up to the frame in mud, full load of wood on a 16ft trailer, and the winch said no way.I disconnected the trailer,winched the truck out, moved the winch to the back of the truck and pulled the trailer back up to the truck and hauled butt.
Total price, 400 bucks for the winch,50 bucks for the snatch block,and 50 for the battery.


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## Damraider (Jul 14, 2009)

Here is some info on the winch .

Stihl sawing , you are thinking of the latter model (8624 ) that looks the same as the 5687 .

So you own an ancient old Warn winch and have no clue what it is?? These were last manufactured around 1974. Known as the Warn Belleview series (ie: Warn #5687), these were reportedly available in 8000# and 6000# ratings. Controls are all cable operated - one cable controls the in-out switch, one runs the brake lever, and the third connects to an underhood lever which controls power. The cable for the brake is t-handled and is designed to twist-lock to maintain/hold the brake. These winches were designed to carry up to 150' of 5/16" aircraft cable. _*They do NOT have a power-out option however, which is really their only disadvantage.*_ Otherwise these are strong durable winches.

http://www.ih8mud.com/tech/oldwarn.php


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## ropensaddle (Jul 14, 2009)

Pto is the way to go imo I have a 20 ton on my bucket that can pull a 35" log full length out the woods! If cheap is what you are looking for many pulp loaders used rear end and brake drum with large spool very fast and simple!


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## stihl sawing (Jul 14, 2009)

Damraider said:


> Here is some info on the winch .
> 
> Stihl sawing , you are thinking of the latter model (8624 ) that looks the same as the 5687 .
> 
> ...


Well you are correct, I do have the 8624. I am getting old ya know.lol


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## ropensaddle (Jul 14, 2009)

*My set up*

It comes or something breaks usually the cable!


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## MontanaMan (Jul 14, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> It comes or something breaks usually the cable!




What size cable are you using?


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## ropensaddle (Jul 14, 2009)

montanaman said:


> what size cable are you using?



5/8 I need a new 300 footer!


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## stihl sawing (Jul 14, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> It comes or something breaks usually the cable!


That's a winch, That monster hydro or electric


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## ropensaddle (Jul 14, 2009)

I also have a 10 ton on a flatbed 78 f350 pto winches are strong and speed up with acceleration.


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## ropensaddle (Jul 14, 2009)

stihl sawing said:


> that's a winch, that monster hydro or electric



pto


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## MontanaMan (Jul 14, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> pto


That sucker is massive ... that is one bodacious winch right there


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## ropensaddle (Jul 14, 2009)

MontanaMan said:


> That sucker is massive ... that is one bodacious winch right there



I can up root a 20" oak cable at 20' high! :jawdrop:


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## ropensaddle (Jul 14, 2009)

*here is the 10 ton one on a one ton lol*

I am looking for drill stem to make a gin truck outta this ole boy! If you can find an ole set up like this get it. This one ton when I get the poles built should easily load a 12' log in the 30" range and it will skid it to you easily because the pulling is done from an elevated position. I have around a grand sunk into the truck counting the brand new tires the motor needs some tlc but runs ok. I plan to rebuild it then set it up to be a log getter!

Oh and paint it too lol


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## ropensaddle (Jul 14, 2009)

*My latest project is done!*

Early variable speed m 600 bobcat can you tell I hate loading anymore? I put a new 35 hp vangaurd in this puppy painted it and then scratched it up fierce!


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## ridgerunner97 (Jul 14, 2009)

There is really only one disadvantage to a pto winch and that is you need to be in the cab of the truck to power it in and out because most you have to use the clutch in the truck. I don't know how your setup is but that is how most i have seen are. Personally most of the offroaders around my parts are starting to use the Smittybilt XRC winches, they are good quality for the money, they make them in 3 different flavors as far as i know an 8k, a 10k, and a 12k pounder, If your goin to use it to recover your truck also, you need at least a 12k pounder. The safe formula to calculate your winch requirements is take your gvw and multiply by 1.5. That will give you your single line pull winch capacity. I recommend using a snatchblock regardless of your winch choice, it will double your pulling capacity and take strain off your winch. Just my .02 cents.


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## ropensaddle (Jul 14, 2009)

ridgerunner97 said:


> There is really only one disadvantage to a pto winch and that is you need to be in the cab of the truck to power it in and out because most you have to use the clutch in the truck. I don't know how your setup is but that is how most i have seen are. Personally most of the offroaders around my parts are starting to use the Smittybilt XRC winches, they are good quality for the money, they make them in 3 different flavors as far as i know an 8k, a 10k, and a 12k pounder, If your goin to use it to recover your truck also, you need at least a 12k pounder. The safe formula to calculate your winch requirements is take your gvw and multiply by 1.5. That will give you your single line pull winch capacity. I recommend using a snatchblock regardless of your winch choice, it will double your pulling capacity and take strain off your winch. Just my .02 cents.



Well you have a point there however pulling logs requires muscle my set up is two speed plus variable accelerator feed too, so 3 speed. My single line pull on my smallest is 20000 lbs or 10 ton the other is 40000 I have never had to double either! In slow speed idling I have loaded cars logs etc. out of the truck but you have to make sure nothing catches. I also have an old hope log loader on a f500 it has a string pull to master cylinder remote and will skid a log faster than you can run. My best firewood gatherer is my old mack grapple truck it will and has loaded a 56" oak log 10 feet long but it wont skid.


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## Steve NW WI (Jul 14, 2009)

I agree on the long cable and snatch block(s) if you want a cheap, reliable system. It will also be safer if you are pulling downhill to your truck as stated in the first post, truck and you will be out of the line of fire if it takes off down the hill toward you.

Steve


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## Ol' Brian (Jul 14, 2009)

MontanaMan said:


> Hey folks:
> 
> I get firewood here in Western Montana with an F250 ... usually on old logging roads cut on the side of steep slopes. I'm really tired of seeing fantastic-looking 25" snags 70 or 80 feet away up a steep slope where it would be impossible to take my truck, and a PITA to roll the Firewood rounds down the hill.
> 
> ...



MontanaMan, I was once in the same pickle that you're in... so I built this:


















Works like a charm! :greenchainsaw:


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## SINGLE-JACK (Jul 14, 2009)

Steve NW WI said:


> I agree on the long cable and snatch block(s) if you want a cheap, reliable system. It will also be safer if you are pulling downhill to your truck as stated in the first post, truck and you will be out of the line of fire if it takes off down the hill toward you.
> 
> Steve


:agree2:


Damraider said:


> You could just buy some cable, good snatch blocks, and tree straps and use the truck as the winch . It would take some rigging but it would be much faster .
> Truck winches are not designed for long sustained pulls , you will burn out the motor pretty fast using it that way, not to mention the battery or altenator won't keep up ( Hard pulls take 300-400 amps of continous power) .


:agree2:


Shagbark said:


> We use a 100' cable with a Walingford Choker. Pull the logs out without a winch. Use the Front tow hooks or rear hitch. We probably have the luxury of more area, so a winch is not necessary. I have experience with Ramsey winch. I would recommend Ramsey.


:agree2:
I got a portable Warn for the Truck and frame mount Warn on the ATV, plus 250' of cable with a flemished eye on each end. The only time the winches get used is when I can't get traction with vehicles. Vehicle/cable staight pull, or snatch block redirect is first choice. Sometimes use the block and an anchor for a 2:1 MA.

That being said: If you gotta have a winch, buy the best! It's cheaper in the long run.


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## ropensaddle (Jul 14, 2009)

xlr82v2 said:


> MontanaMan, I was once in the same pickle that you're in... so I built this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Me likes:monkey: What tonnage is that winch? PTO I assume you can skid it tight to blade lift and load? Pretty slick tractor gin sort of


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## MontanaMan (Jul 14, 2009)

xlr82v2 said:


> MontanaMan, I was once in the same pickle that you're in... so I built this:
> 
> Works like a charm! :greenchainsaw:



That's an awesome setup you built there. Is it possible to do a PTO on a pickup? 

I'm really amazed at some of the ingenuity I've seen on this site.

I'm starting to lean toward the simple cable and snatchblocks. 100' of 3/8" cable is only $55.00, compared to at least ten times that much for a decent winch & cable. 

Those of you who do that, can you tell me how you keep the cable on your truck? Do you just throw it in the back? Keep it on a special coil? I wish I could go out and cut wood with someone who can do this in their sleep. Anybody know of some "how to" videos or writeups on the web ... how to use cable and snatchblocks to pull out logs? Most of it is obvious ... but there are always those little tricks that make a huge difference.

My hat is off to all of you ... I've been doing things the hard way for the past 4 years. First I tried rolling the rounds down hill ... most hit the road and kept right on rolling hundreds more feet down the mountain.

Then I started rolling them one by one ... me backing down the hill, rolling the rounds backwards. Finally I just started passing them by.


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## gilraine (Jul 14, 2009)

I have a 6000 pound warn on the trailer and a 15000 warn on the front of the truck, both have been flawless, except for breaking the 7/16 on the M15000 trying to recover a truck.. that stuck required a bulldozer..


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## ropensaddle (Jul 14, 2009)

MontanaMan said:


> That's an awesome setup you built there. Is it possible to do a PTO on a pickup?
> 
> I'm really amazed at some of the ingenuity I've seen on this site.
> 
> ...



Yes Its possible for pto on pickup if it has the plate just order the right gear set and take plate off put pto on and your in business! For the cheap route I agree cable and blocks will probably suit your needs but you will get tired of coiling it when done.


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## Ol' Brian (Jul 14, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> Me likes:monkey: What tonnage is that winch? PTO I assume you can skid it tight to blade lift and load? Pretty slick tractor gin sort of


 
Thanks! I think the winch is a 20,000 pound model... got it off of eBay for about $150, and went from there. It's only limited by the tractor it's attached to... it's got more than enough power to completely flip the tractor over backwards. I've got 100' of 7/16 cable on it... it makes recovering logs out of unreachable places easy. Right now it's still PTO powered, but I've already got a hydraulic motor out in the shop that I'm going to use to convert it to hydraulic drive. That will make reversing the winch much easier than it is with the PTO drive.


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## JAL (Jul 14, 2009)

I like to use ½” rope with a boat deck cleat mounted on a receiver hitch. The rope I use is rated for 9,500 and some times I just double it up for extra pull. The boat cleat makes it easy to just go forward with the truck, back up and adjust the slack out of the rope and repeat. Another thing I found is that it is easier to pull the log "top out first"…. and yes I know this is opposite of the way that you would regularly skid logs but it does work better when rope skidding long distances out of the woods. A large selection of snatch blocks makes it a lot easier for turning corners.

View attachment 103797


I am in the process of collecting parts to make a either a hydraulic or pto capstan winch mouted to my dump truck. My truck now has a pto drven hydraulic pump for the dump bed and it just depends on what parts I find as to what I end up with.


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## swanny (Jul 14, 2009)

I've had a couple of the el cheapo $300 winches from ebay...9000# electric in the past 10 years. Have been nothing but wonderful...not a problem with either and I have abused them...made lots of long dead pulls (no pipes underneath) on logs...some 36" x 17' with a snatch block of course.

Both have been mounted to the front of my dumper trailers (I can raise the bed high...helps in the pull). Been fortunate I guess, unlike others here that have bought them.

My next one will be hydraulic.


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## Pruitt1222 (Jul 14, 2009)

I have a mile marker hydro winch on my jeep, Runs on a seperate power steering pump. I have a hand throttle in the jeep, just idle it up to about 2200 rpm and it workes great. Super fast power in and out, has two speed trans(electric can't come close, over 30 feet a minute in high). Wireless remote and 12000 lbs to boot. Only problem I have incountered with it is when you kill the jeep and cant get it restarted while stuck in deep mud. I am a firm believer in this winch, like every one else has said. Once you get one you'll use it once or twice a month.


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## clearance (Jul 14, 2009)

Damraider said:


> You could just buy some cable, good snatch blocks, and tree straps and use the truck as the winch . It would take some rigging but it would be much faster .
> Truck winches are not designed for long sustained pulls , you will burn out the motor pretty fast using it that way, not to mention the battery or altenator won't keep up ( Hard pulls take 300-400 amps of continous power) .



I agree.


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## JAL (Jul 14, 2009)

clearance said:


> I agree.



+1 ...that's why I like my rope system.


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## ms290 (Jul 14, 2009)

Heres a solution:

If your powersteerin pump has a remote reservior put a gallon or two bigger side storage reserve on it and get your self a two way valve and some hydralic hose and fittings. 

And then wa la you then have a high power wich that isnt going out when the going gets rough. I think the best part is is that you will have a faster pull than with an electric winch.

I recently broke the housing on my winch that is mounted to my dunebuggy-ish toy i drive around.


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## BuddhaKat (Jul 14, 2009)

Here's a winch worth checking out. Supposed to be really high quality for under $300. 12,500 lb winch.

http://www.amazon.com/TUFF-STUFF-4x...ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1247623070&sr=8-1


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## Pruitt1222 (Jul 14, 2009)

forgot to add, Always buy a winch thats two times bigger then what you'll ever need. The reason I say this, if your winch has 4 wraps of spooled cable on it and its a 10000 pounded it only has 10000 pounds of pulling power with no cable on the spool. Once you add a wrap you lose 20% and 10-15% every wrap after that. So a 10000 pounder only pulls about 6000 pounds with four wraps on the drum. Always carry a snatch block if you do get a winch that way if you do have a short pull or a heavy pull you can get twice the power outta that hoss.


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## ropensaddle (Jul 14, 2009)

xlr82v2 said:


> Thanks! I think the winch is a 20,000 pound model... got it off of eBay for about $150, and went from there. It's only limited by the tractor it's attached to... it's got more than enough power to completely flip the tractor over backwards. I've got 100' of 7/16 cable on it... it makes recovering logs out of unreachable places easy. Right now it's still PTO powered, but I've already got a hydraulic motor out in the shop that I'm going to use to convert it to hydraulic drive. That will make reversing the winch much easier than it is with the PTO drive.



I would leave it pto hydraulic stalls just when you need more pull. I can shift mine into reverse it is a braden or tulsa winch also has a two speed pre-gear box to drive the main.


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## ropensaddle (Jul 14, 2009)

Pruitt1222 said:


> forgot to add, Always buy a winch thats two times bigger then what you'll ever need. The reason I say this, if your winch has 4 wraps of spooled cable on it and its a 10000 pounded it only has 10000 pounds of pulling power with no cable on the spool. Once you add a wrap you lose 20% and 10-15% every wrap after that. So a 10000 pounder only pulls about 6000 pounds with four wraps on the drum. Always carry a snatch block if you do get a winch that way if you do have a short pull or a heavy pull you can get twice the power outta that hoss.



How is the amount of wrap going to effect pull power? Pull speed maybe but power I don't think so


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## ropensaddle (Jul 14, 2009)

clearance said:


> I agree.



For the op's use this is likely the best cheap fix, so I agree but my winch pulls all day and uses no amps:hmm3grin2orange:


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## redprospector (Jul 14, 2009)

Pruitt1222 said:


> forgot to add, Always buy a winch thats two times bigger then what you'll ever need. The reason I say this, if your winch has 4 wraps of spooled cable on it and its a 10000 pounded it only has 10000 pounds of pulling power with no cable on the spool. Once you add a wrap you lose 20% and 10-15% every wrap after that. So a 10000 pounder only pulls about 6000 pounds with four wraps on the drum. Always carry a snatch block if you do get a winch that way if you do have a short pull or a heavy pull you can get twice the power outta that hoss.



You are correct sir. 
I think of the winch drum as the final gear in the system. As you add wrap's to the drum its size increases, equaling less actual power.

Andy


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## Pruitt1222 (Jul 14, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> How is the amount of wrap going to effect pull power? Pull speed maybe but power I don't think so



Well I am by no means a expert on this subject but got lots of winching time under my belt. The way I kinda take it is that a drag car with 30" slicks is quick outta the hole but the same car with 35" slicks is faster top end. Kinda the same thing. If a drum is 2" dia and as 4 wraps of 3/8 cable it is a 1 1/2 fatter, so that would be like a 30inch tire verses a 50 inch both running a 4:11 rear.


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## ropensaddle (Jul 14, 2009)

redprospector said:


> You are correct sir.
> I think of the winch drum as the final gear in the system. As you add wrap's to the drum its size increases, equaling less actual power.
> 
> Andy



My,my I have not noticed one bit of power loss with 300 foot of cable it is the same at 100 as it is 295 foot. Speed changes though.


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## ropensaddle (Jul 14, 2009)

Pruitt1222 said:


> Well I am by no means a expert on this subject but got lots of winching time under my belt. The way I kinda take it is that a drag car with 30" slicks is quick outta the hole but the same car with 35" slicks is faster top end. Kinda the same thing. If a drum is 2" dia and as 4 wraps of 3/8 cable it is a 1 1/2 fatter, so that would be like a 30inch tire verses a 50 inch both running a 4:11 rear.



Ok so your assumption is the engine hp decreases with larger tire size?


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## Pruitt1222 (Jul 14, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> Ok so your assumption is the engine hp decreases with tire size?[/QUOTE
> 
> Has nothing to do with the engine just the amout of torque at the wheels


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## MontanaMan (Jul 14, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> My,my I have not noticed one bit of power loss with 300 foot of cable it is the same at 100 as it is 295 foot. Speed changes though.




That's because you have such a monster huge winch with more than enough power to spare.

If you have a limited amount of power, you have to have smaller gears (smaller winch drum size).

Remember back to when you were riding your first 10-speed bike. When it was time to go up a hill, you geared down to the smaller chainring up front. That's like the winch drum being smaller when all the cable is played out. With the smaller drum, your speed is slower, so more power is devoted into each foot of cable being reeled in.

You're really lucky to have such an awesome winch you don't have to worry about that. Most guys here would kill to have a setup like that.


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## ropensaddle (Jul 14, 2009)

Pruitt1222 said:


> ropensaddle said:
> 
> 
> > Ok so your assumption is the engine hp decreases with tire size?[/QUOTE
> ...


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## ropensaddle (Jul 14, 2009)

MontanaMan said:


> That's because you have such a monster huge winch with more than enough power to spare.
> 
> If you have a limited amount of power, you have to have smaller gears (smaller winch drum size).
> 
> ...



Whoowa now guy's, it is a fine winch but heck before we get too serious, I am sure I can find another:hmm3grin2orange:


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## MontanaMan (Jul 14, 2009)

JAL said:


> I like to use ½” rope with a boat deck cleat mounted on a receiver hitch. The rope I use is rated for 9,500 and some times I just double it up for extra pull.



Where did you find a 9500 lb 1/2" rope? Can you tell me the brand name or something?

I like the simplicity of your solution ... rope is much easier to handle, and the idea of driving forward to pull the log, then back up, rewinding the rope to take out slack, repeat ... that's good for tight spots.


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## MontanaMan (Jul 14, 2009)

BuddhaKat said:


> Here's a winch worth checking out. Supposed to be really high quality for under $300. 12,500 lb winch.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/TUFF-STUFF-4x...ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1247623070&sr=8-1



Even with shipping, it's still under $400. That's definitely the best deal I've seen for less than 400. Compared to the Gorilla, it has more powerful motor, more accessories, just seems better. I know the 4WDers love the TuffStuff brand too.

But for now, I'm kind of getting attached to the idea of starting with strong rope and snatch block.


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## ropensaddle (Jul 14, 2009)

If rope is your poison look up at the top of this page and check out bailey's or wespur they have some nice rope. They actually have 1/2 rope capable of 34000 lbs amsteel blue but it is way expensive. Their is some in the 8000 plus that does not kill the account.

Just click the balloons and enter the store hope this helps!


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## STANG302 (Jul 14, 2009)

You can find used winches on off road forums. You may be able to find a great deal on one of those. On that I am on is Pirate4x4. Just a thought?


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## Pruitt1222 (Jul 14, 2009)

Or you could just buy a new dodge power wagon, they come stock with locked up dana 60's and a warn 10000 pounder. I want one


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## Steve NW WI (Jul 14, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> How is the amount of wrap going to effect pull power? Pull speed maybe but power I don't think so



Here's a drawing that might help. Think of the blue line as a bar, or your winch motor. Bar is the same lenght in both pics. On the larger drum, you get more travel when you move the bar a certain amount, but need more force to do it. "A" with the smaller drum will lift the same load with less effort, just slower.

It's a crude drawing, but I hope it helps.







BTW- if you find any PTO winches around cheap, I may be interested. Looking to make a 3pt skidding setup for the tractor.

Side note - WOOOHOOO, finally the sound of some rain on the roof here!

Steve


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## ropensaddle (Jul 14, 2009)

*Get a mule*

You could just get a mule or draft horse and pull those puppy's down them hills.


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## ropensaddle (Jul 14, 2009)

Steve NW WI said:


> Here's a drawing that might help. Think of the blue line as a bar, or your winch motor. Bar is the same lenght in both pics. On the larger drum, you get more travel when you move the bar a certain amount, but need more force to do it. "A" with the smaller drum will lift the same load with less effort, just slower.
> 
> It's a crude drawing, but I hope it helps.
> 
> ...



I sorta got what ya'll were saying just don't notice the difference on my set up. Now 
I will have to try to find two lol ozarktreeman seen mine in use so he wants one. I come by them sometimes I will see what they have at the auction many times they are bumper and all of large trucks! It could be fabbed to fit most anything but needs some beefing!


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## Pruitt1222 (Jul 15, 2009)

what size are you looking for steve?


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## Steve NW WI (Jul 15, 2009)

I guess anything 6K or larger would work, would prefer 10K. Going on a 70HP tractor.

Steve


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## Pruitt1222 (Jul 15, 2009)

there is a military surplus store near here, I go there often. but any how, they have had several winches in there over past trips. Some very cheap, Its on the way to my bil's house. And well heading there this weekend I'll keep ya in mind. I'm guessing you want a pto not hydro. And for anyone wanting a hydro there is a store in Akron,Oh that has a whole lot of used winches priced fair. http://www.samwinermotors.com/


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## ropensaddle (Jul 15, 2009)

Steve NW WI said:


> I guess anything 6K or larger would work, would prefer 10K. Going on a 70HP tractor.
> 
> Steve



Ebay has some now one is a big tulsa!


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## ropensaddle (Jul 15, 2009)

Pruitt1222 said:


> there is a military surplus store near here, I go there often. but any how, they have had several winches in there over past trips. Some very cheap, Its on the way to my bil's house. And well heading there this weekend I'll keep ya in mind. I'm guessing you want a pto not hydro. And for anyone wanting a hydro there is a store in Akron,Oh that has a whole lot of used winches priced fair. http://www.samwinermotors.com/



If you see a bollard sometimes called a catshead I am looking for one for my big winch! It fits on the end of the shaft sticking out in this pic. I will measure my shaft if they have one! It is for a rope friction pull and brake sort of a gcrs on steroids.


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## JAL (Jul 15, 2009)

MontanaMan said:


> Where did you find a 9500 lb 1/2" rope? Can you tell me the brand name or something?
> 
> I like the simplicity of your solution ... rope is much easier to handle, and the idea of driving forward to pull the log, then back up, rewinding the rope to take out slack, repeat ... that's good for tight spots.



http://www.howtowireahouse.com/Greenlee_23774.html

You will get better price if you look harder. Look for Greenlee wire pulling rope.

And don't forget to get the LARGE boat cleat for your hitch reciever.
It makes it easier.......


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## WidowMaker (Jul 15, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> Pruitt1222 said:
> 
> 
> > My guess, that would be the same, speed would increase as greater distance per revolution changes the speed. I am getting your idea but power output should be the same but then it may likely be my winch is just big.[/QUO===
> ...


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## Austin1 (Jul 16, 2009)

Once you get a winch or decide what other options you will try,make yourself a skid plate for the log. Just a piece of 3/16'' plate will work great that is big enough to cover the log, for me I made mine 20'' wide also bend it so you have no sharp corners rather than weld it so it is L shaped drill a bunch of 3/16th'' holes so you can attach it to the log with a few nails. It will slide over the ground much better that way with out the log digging in.I just slip my choker chain behind it and hit the remote for the winch or I just hook up a cable to my hitch and drive away. 
I have to build a new one as mine got stolen out of the back of the truck scape is worth too much these day's to Crack heads.


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## JAL (Jul 16, 2009)

Here's a REAL stump pullin winch for $2800.00

*Eastern Surplus*


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## Pruitt1222 (Jul 16, 2009)

I tell you what JAL, that thing would look narly on the front of my wifes liberty. I stopped by that surplus store today and looked for some goodies today. I did look for winches and they had a few but all looked to small or to bad off. I am in there over other month, I'll keep a eye out. I did however buy my self a blackhawk riggers belt for 10 bucks, also got my self a manly DDP "Diaper Depolyment Pack" keeps me from having to carry my wifes pink one.


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## ropensaddle (Jul 16, 2009)

JAL said:


> Here's a REAL stump pullin winch for $2800.00
> 
> *Eastern Surplus*



Lol nice one so bring it on we will hook up and see which pulls who:jawdrop:


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## Laird (Jul 16, 2009)

Might be more than you want to spend.






Technical Specs:
Height: 65"
Width: 55"
Shipping Weight: 725 lbs.
Pulling Capacity: 11025 lbs.
Drum Capacity: Sold with 165” of ½” cable with option of up to 265’ of 3/8” cable
Winching Speed: 1 to 5 ft. per second.
Clutch: Mechanical friction plate clutch with heat sink
Power Transmission: Universal shaft from tractor
Mounting: To Category I or II 3-point hitch
Tractor Size: Min. 40 HP, Max. 60 HP
Related Product: Farmi 501T Skidding Winch - 501 with Electric Hydraulic Control System


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## JAL (Jul 16, 2009)

Laird said:


> Might be more than you want to spend.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




How much for the little brother?
Farmi JL290 Skidding Winch 

http://www.farmiwinch.com/index.php...ew=category&id=50:JL290&layout=blog&Itemid=67


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## Ol' Brian (Jul 16, 2009)

I sure would like to have one of the Farmi winches... I patterned my homemade winch somewhat after the Farmi's. 

Mine works great, but it's Slooooooow... but it still gets the job done, and I built it! So, I guess I'll keep it!


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## redprospector (Jul 17, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> My,my I have not noticed one bit of power loss with 300 foot of cable it is the same at 100 as it is 295 foot. Speed changes though.



Come on rope, you know better than that if you'll think about it.
If speed increases, and all other elements stay the same, power has to decrease.
If you have two old Ford pickups (I know you like old Ford's ), both with 390 cu. in. engines, both with granny 4 speeds, but one has a 3:73 differental, and the other has a 4:56 differental. Which one has the most pulling power? They both have the same hp at the back of the engine. They both have the same hp at the back of the transmission. But at the ground (where it counts) the 4:56 will have more power. It won't go as fast, but it will have more power. If you're not noticing it, then you're not loading your winch.

I can notice it on this one, but not when it's not loaded.





Andy


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## ropensaddle (Jul 17, 2009)

redprospector said:


> Come on rope, you know better than that if you'll think about it.
> If speed increases, and all other elements stay the same, power has to decrease.
> If you have two old Ford pickups (I know you like old Ford's ), both with 390 cu. in. engines, both with granny 4 speeds, but one has a 3:73 differental, and the other has a 4:56 differental. Which one has the most pulling power? They both have the same hp at the back of the engine. They both have the same hp at the back of the transmission. But at the ground (where it counts) the 4:56 will have more power. It won't go as fast, but it will have more power. If you're not noticing it, then you're not loading your winch.
> 
> ...



Lmao I really don't notice what I have hooked too has always came to me or the 21000 lb truck skids across the dirt. I have never stalled it,broke yes one time the cable trying to fish a 36" log and a 20' root ball out of a creek. He had a dozer try to pull it out, I did more than the dozer could and if I had a new cable it would have came but the cable was kinked before I bought the truck and finally gave way. I get the power thing though and suppose on electric and hydraulic winches it factors in more.


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## redprospector (Jul 18, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> Lmao I really don't notice what I have hooked too has always came to me or the 21000 lb truck skids across the dirt. I have never stalled it,broke yes one time the cable trying to fish a 36" log and a 20' root ball out of a creek. He had a dozer try to pull it out, I did more than the dozer could and if I had a new cable it would have came but the cable was kinked before I bought the truck and finally gave way. I get the power thing though and suppose on electric and hydraulic winches it factors in more.



It factors in the same on all of them, it's the law of physics.

Andy


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## ropensaddle (Jul 18, 2009)

redprospector said:


> It factors in the same on all of them, it's the law of physics.
> 
> Andy



Physics hmm Hydraulic will stall, electric will stall, pto will not stall is why I don't notice any difference.


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## pioneerguy600 (Jul 18, 2009)

Austin1 said:


> Once you get a winch or decide what other options you will try,make yourself a skid plate for the log. Just a piece of 3/16'' plate will work great that is big enough to cover the log, for me I made mine 20'' wide also bend it so you have no sharp corners rather than weld it so it is L shaped drill a bunch of 3/16th'' holes so you can attach it to the log with a few nails. It will slide over the ground much better that way with out the log digging in.I just slip my choker chain behind it and hit the remote for the winch or I just hook up a cable to my hitch and drive away.
> I have to build a new one as mine got stolen out of the back of the truck scape is worth too much these day's to Crack heads.



A skidder cone will also accomplish the same thing, the cable just runs through the middle of the cone and the cone can be slipped up the cable for attaching the cable to the log, the cone slips back down when the cable is wound/pulled in and the tree slides inside the big end of the cone without effort. These cones keep the trunk from digging in or fetching behind most anything. If you use the Klope type snatch blocks you can attach a fitting on the pull cable that automatically opens the snatch block releasing the cable just before the cone/log reaches the snatch block and then the cone/log will change direction toward the next center of pull.
Pioneerguy600


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## WidowMaker (Jul 18, 2009)

pioneerguy600 said:


> A skidder cone will also accomplish the same thing, the cable just runs through the middle of the cone and the cone can be slipped up the cable for attaching the cable to the log, the cone slips back down when the cable is wound/pulled in and the tree slides inside the big end of the cone without effort. These cones keep the trunk from digging in or fetching behind most anything. If you use the Klope type snatch blocks you can attach a fitting on the pull cable that automatically opens the snatch block releasing the cable just before the cone/log reaches the snatch block and then the cone/log will change direction toward the next center of pull.
> Pioneerguy600



====

Pioneerguy600
can you post a picture or a link to these as I can't seem to find anything on the net...TIA


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## WidowMaker (Jul 18, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> Physics hmm Hydraulic will stall, electric will stall, pto will not stall is why I don't notice any difference.



===

PTO winches stall by killing the power source(engine) or breaking something in the power train or the cable...same differance...it quits pulling


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## ropensaddle (Jul 18, 2009)

WidowMaker said:


> ===
> 
> PTO winches stall by killing the power source(engine) or breaking something in the power train or the cable...same differance...it quits pulling



Lol Ok if you say so, I have seen hydraulic winches on big trucks fail to get them unstuck from stalling. I have never seen my winch do that. I have broken a ujoint but it was already sloppy. In my set up something will break or it will move either the truck or the object, not stall. I would rather it do that than to stall trying to get me unstuck, been there with hydraulics. I have never had my pto fail to pull my 21000 lb truck out of the muck. The two times it broke were; skidding and pulling a large stump out of the ground! It is not going to break my drivetrain it will be cable or joint failure and I can live with that to have adequate pull.


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## redprospector (Jul 18, 2009)

Ok rope,
A PTO winch is far superior to a hydraulic, or electric winch, I'll give you that one. But that wasn't what this discussion was about.
A winch, reguardless if it's PTO, hydraulic, or electric, will loose pulling power as you add layers of cable to the drum.
I now also know that your equipment is far superior to anything anyone here has ever operated. Your winch is so good that it defies physics....................and logic.
So go ahead and keep thinking whatever you want to think.

Andy


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## ropensaddle (Jul 18, 2009)

redprospector said:


> Ok rope,
> A PTO winch is far superior to a hydraulic, or electric winch, I'll give you that one. But that wasn't what this discussion was about.
> A winch, reguardless if it's PTO, hydraulic, or electric, will loose pulling power as you add layers of cable to the drum.
> I now also know that your equipment is far superior to anything anyone here has ever operated. Your winch is so good that it defies physics....................and logic.
> ...



Lmao I thought we were supposed to be talking about the best way of winching logs outta the woods I just had to answer my findings about differences I have experienced in two of the several set ups. I have already told the op a tow cable, sling , or draft horse is probably his cheapest alternative to his plight. I really do wish I could demo it for you red so you could tell me when it is losing power:monkey:


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## stackwood (Jul 18, 2009)

hey I have a f250 and f150, I had 12 acres of land to clear and keep the wood also. One side was a swamp the other a steep hill incline . solution 1 extra 5 lug f150 rim 1 snatch block and 250ft 3/16 air craft cable , I drilled a hole into the rim attached the cable , tow strap to a tree with the snatch block ,aim the rim at snatch block , back truck up against the tree , jack up the truck take tire off attach modded rim and cable run your cable out attach snag line to felled tree's have friend put into low and woola those logs will come in fast.


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## ridgerunner97 (Jul 18, 2009)

I forgot about that lol!!! Rep Sent! Back in the day haha im one to be talking as a young guy on here anyhow, before any of us were born, they used that method to winch the first cars where they couldn't drive, they had windlass drums pretty much mounted to the drive rims all the time. Take a few turns with a stout rope and away she went lol. Worked well, i saw pics and footage on a history channel program. Pretty kick ass until the driver freaked out or lost control and forgot to push the clutch haha. Skidding that way could be dangerous if there was a lack of communication between rigger and truck operator, radio communication would be necessary, not an option. Keep it safe workin like that. I may try that over my buddies house, bout a cliff, with a 4'dbh oak in the bottom that fell over. Still trying to figure a way to skid it up, we don't have access to a winch we might try that.


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## ropensaddle (Jul 18, 2009)

stackwood said:


> hey I have a f250 and f150, I had 12 acres of land to clear and keep the wood also. One side was a swamp the other a steep hill incline . solution 1 extra 5 lug f150 rim 1 snatch block and 250ft 3/16 air craft cable , I drilled a hole into the rim attached the cable , tow strap to a tree with the snatch block ,aim the rim at snatch block , back truck up against the tree , jack up the truck take tire off attach modded rim and cable run your cable out attach snag line to felled tree's have friend put into low and woola those logs will come in fast.



Yup I mentioned rear end winch in the first pages, pulp truck can be made fro them too!


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## stackwood (Jul 21, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> Yup I mentioned rear end winch in the first pages, pulp truck can be made fro them too!



I skiddin logs tommarow , I'll take some pics and maybe a vid and post on youtube.


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## MontanaMan (Jul 23, 2009)

stackwood said:


> hey I have a f250 and f150, I had 12 acres of land to clear and keep the wood also. One side was a swamp the other a steep hill incline . solution 1 extra 5 lug f150 rim 1 snatch block and 250ft 3/16 air craft cable , I drilled a hole into the rim attached the cable , tow strap to a tree with the snatch block ,aim the rim at snatch block , back truck up against the tree , jack up the truck take tire off attach modded rim and cable run your cable out attach snag line to felled tree's have friend put into low and woola those logs will come in fast.



Yeah ... that's a great solution for a situation like yours. I think that would be good for removing a lot of trees from one location, but for getting one log at a time, that's a lot of extra work to jack up truck, swap wheels, pull in log, swap wheels, let down truck.

The more I think about it tho ... that idea could be modified for more frequent use. If you could figure out a way to attach a more permanent roller drum outside the truck wheel, then use a quick jack to lift the wheel, you'd be in business. So basically, you'd attach the drum to your rear wheel, go out getting firewood all day, then take it off when you get back home. You could even attach it with 3 bolts, instead of five. Or on an 8-bolt rim, use 2 or 4 bolts.

Or how about you put bolt extenders on your lug bolts ... then attach an extra rim from a scrap yard on those extended bolts? So you'd have your tire rim and the extra (winch) rim attached at the same time. The winch rim would be snugged up against your tire rim, which would give it extra stability. Would be pretty fast setup. 

And the end result would be a very fast and powerful winch. And when you get home, take off the extra rim, take off the bolt extenders, and you're done.

Nothin' like a little redneck engineering when you need it!!


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