# 3/8 picco/lopro rim sprockets



## Mad Professor (Aug 9, 2010)

I've found someone who will manufacture 3/8 7-pin picco rim sprockets.

A quantity of 4-20 will run $28 each, which is not much of a savings over the spur.

Anybody else interested so I could order a larger run to get cost down?

If there is enough interest I'll see what a larger run of 50-100 might cost.

I'm not looking to make money, just cost + shipping.

P.S. these would be large spline to fit 066/660 type saws using a rim sprocket.


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## BobL (Aug 9, 2010)

Mad Professor said:


> I've found someone who will manufacture 3/8 7-pin picco rim sprockets.
> 
> A quantity of 4-20 will run $28 each, which is not much of a savings over the spur.
> 
> ...



Well done MP - I would like 4!


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## Mad Professor (Aug 9, 2010)

If we can get a larger run, cost will be ca. $19 each plus shipping.


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## smokinj (Aug 9, 2010)

Is this only going to work on a 660/066?


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## mtngun (Aug 9, 2010)

smokinj said:


> Is this only going to work on a 660/066?


I'm sure these will be rims that fit a standard spline -- in other words, they'll fit your 460 or 7900 or anything that has a standard spline.

Mad Professor, will these be pressed from sintered metal, similar to the Oregon rims, or will they be machined similar to danzco rims ?


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## smokinj (Aug 9, 2010)

mtngun said:


> I'm sure these will be rims that fit a standard spline -- in other words, they'll fit your 460 or 7900 or anything that has a standard spline.
> 
> Mad Professor, will these be pressed from sintered metal, similar to the Oregon rims, or will they be machined similar to danzco rims ?



I am on a learning curve here so if you use this rim with a picco chain will the 3/8 bars still work?


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## Mad Professor (Aug 9, 2010)

mtngun said:


> I'm sure these will be rims that fit a standard spline -- in other words, they'll fit your 460 or 7900 or anything that has a standard spline.
> 
> Mad Professor, will these be pressed from sintered metal, similar to the Oregon rims, or will they be machined similar to danzco rims ?



Danzco is the place I inquired about making the rims, so I assume machined.

They will be standard large spline so should fit most med-large saws. 

The things Ed wanted was a length of chain to be sure to match fit and also the groove width of a small spline cast picco sprocket, to get proper groove width. 

Anybody have a small spline picco sprocket that can provide measurements? Other wise I'll stop by the Stihl dealer this week with my calipers........


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## mtngun (Aug 9, 2010)

smokinj said:


> I am on a learn curve here so if you use this rim with a picco chain will the 3/8 bars still work?


Depends on the brand. BobL has reported that his GB (?) 3/8" bars fit picco chain. 

However,the 3/8" bars that I have tried -- Windsor, Stihl, and Carlton -- the nose sprocket teeth were too thick to fit inside the lo-pro links. I had to thin the teeth with a raker file, then it worked OK.

You can also buy a proper lo-pro/picco bar from Logosol.

Mad Professor, I don't have a store-bought picco rim to measure. I wasn't aware that the rim groove width was that critical. My modded 404 rims seem to work fine with low pro.


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## BobL (Aug 9, 2010)

mtngun said:


> Depends on the brand. BobL has reported that his GB (?) 3/8" bars fit picco chain.



Yep was purchased as a SN25-50WR Bar - 25" Pro Top Stihl 310 - 660 3/8LP x 050 72DL


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## Mad Professor (Aug 9, 2010)

mtngun said:


> Depends on the brand. BobL has reported that his GB (?) 3/8" bars fit picco chain.
> 
> However,the 3/8" bars that I have tried -- Windsor, Stihl, and Carlton -- the nose sprocket teeth were too thick to fit inside the lo-pro links. I had to thin the teeth with a raker file, then it worked OK.
> 
> ...



I agree, regular 3/8" rims are the same for 0.050 and 0.063" chains so as long as the groove is big enough should work.

Sthil made picco bars (3003 prefix) for the larger saws, up to 25" I think. My 25" bar from logosol was oregon branded, purchased in 2000. I'll have to have a look at the PN to see if it is picco specific, I have assumed it is.


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## Mad Professor (Aug 10, 2010)

I just talked to Ed. He is going to do a small run and I do not have to be the middle man. 

I'm in for a few of the first run. If others have interest please contact Danzco.
I won't leave him hanging and will buy up ALL of the lot if there is not enough interest.

http://www.danzcoinc.com/

I hope there are enough millers out there to support this as a commodity for Danzco to provide as a regular item. It's up to you CS millers.

Best,

MP

P.S. Milled ,heat treated, solid steel stock used, not cheap cast/powder, should hold up real well


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## BobL (Aug 10, 2010)

Thanks MP - that is a good job for good job setting this up.


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## Mad Professor (Aug 10, 2010)

Hi Dan,

Thanks for the reply.

If you get a chance check this out, complete L + C archives, good reading and informative to your location.

http://www.pbs.org/lewisandclark/archive/idx_jou.html

Thanks,
Tony


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## BIG JAKE (Aug 13, 2010)

I've been considering the lo-pro but stihl on the fence. I'm not convinced yet that the difference between the lo-pro and regular 3/8's is enough to walk from here to across the street over. May be I haven't followed some of the threads close enough, but still hung up over .375 vs .365... Bob and Mtngun like it-guess I'll need to look the data over


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## Mad Professor (Aug 13, 2010)

BIG JAKE said:


> I've been considering the lo-pro but stihl on the fence. I'm not convinced yet that the difference between the lo-pro and regular 3/8's is enough to walk from here to across the street over. May be I haven't followed some of the threads close enough, but still hung up over .375 vs .365... Bob and Mtngun like it-guess I'll need to look the data over



I get to mill a lot black cherry and I hate to make it into sawdust instead of boards (less kerf).

I've only run sthil picco PMX (0.050 3/8 picco 10 degree cutter) but would like to hear comparisons to others who have tried less $$$ chains ( WP 3/8 LP) and see how it compares to stihl chain. 

For crosscut I run mostly Stihl RS or RSC that I find on ebay for $15 a loop.

Can't find stihl picco PMX in the USA, besides logo$ol ( $27/16" bar loop)


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## smokinj (Aug 13, 2010)

Ok I like the thought of the less kerf Inighten me here: I am running a 063 3/8 set up on a 880 How will this help me? and what all do I have to do?


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## Mad Professor (Aug 13, 2010)

smokinj said:


> Ok I like the thought of the less kerf Inighten me here: I am running a 063 3/8 set up on a 880 How will this help me? and what all do I have to do?



I don't think you want to run picco on an 880, to much HP.

On a smaller saw, say a 066, each cut is THINNER, so more WOOD less SAWDUST: more Boards from each log, less sawdust.

If you have correct spline clutch you need a : rim sprocket, with 0.050" picco tip bar, or 0.050 hardnose bar, picco chain.


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## mtngun (Aug 13, 2010)

smokinj said:


> Ok I like the thought of the less kerf Inighten me here: I am running a 063 3/8 set up on a 880 How will this help me? and what all do I have to do?


I agree with Mad Professor, a 120cc saw is too much for lo-pro/picco.

But .....Aggiewoodbutcher runs 0.325" chain on his 120cc saws, for bars up to 42" if I remember correctly. On longer bars, he said the 0.325" stretched too much.

Easy enough to put a 0.325" nose on a bar, and 0.325" rims are readily available, but 0.325" ripping chain is tough to come by.

Aggie uses Carlton 0.325" semi-chisel, reground to 10 degrees. It's a little hard to find, since most of the 0.325" on the market is safety chain for homeowner saws. You pretty much have to buy a reel of 0.325", make your own loops, and regrind it.


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## gemniii (Aug 14, 2010)

other thread on lo-pro
http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=121746


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## smokinj (Aug 14, 2010)

mtngun said:


> I agree with Mad Professor, a 120cc saw is too much for lo-pro/picco.
> 
> But .....Aggiewoodbutcher runs 0.325" chain on his 120cc saws, for bars up to 42" if I remember correctly. On longer bars, he said the 0.325" stretched too much.
> 
> ...



Thats where my head at.


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## B_Turner (Aug 24, 2010)

Did Danzco ever make the 3/8 lo pro sprockets and how did they work out?

I have been wishing for a source of small spline 3/8 lp (picco ideally) sprockets to run on my hydraulic stanleys.

One thing I learned about the danzco style sprockets is they won't fit on a small husky with an outboard clutch. But the stanley saws have much more room.


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## BobL (Aug 24, 2010)

B_Turner said:


> Did Danzco ever make the 3/8 lo pro sprockets and how did they work out?
> 
> I have been wishing for a source of small spline 3/8 lp (picco ideally) sprockets to run on my hydraulic stanleys.
> 
> One thing I learned about the danzco style sprockets is they won't fit on a small husky with an outboard clutch. But the stanley saws have much more room.



I have been communicating with them. Last communication was to establish a shipping price - should be no biggie as they are quite small.


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## B_Turner (Aug 24, 2010)

BobL said:


> I have been communicating with them. Last communication was to establish a shipping price - should be no biggie as they are quite small.



Thanks. I hope they work out okay, even with the round drive "pins."

I had talked to him early this year about making some 3/8 lp small spline sprockets, but nothing came of it. So I am very curious about how well this veture works out, and if it does work out well I can maybe have him make some in the small spline rim.

I have thought about trying have someone mod the splined part on the stanley saws to accept the stihl p-7 (picco) floating rim, but I don't think there is enough meat on that part to size it down to the stihl floating rim which is a smaller spline.

Slightly different subject, but I have been trying the .043 gauge 3/8 lp lately on smaller saws (short bars) for faster blocking due to the greatly reduced kerf, and that shows some promise. 

Naturally not suitable for milling, as the chains are a bit wimpy. But the power required to cut endgrain is much less than even a 3/8 lp. Night and day. Haven't found out yet how long the chain holds up.


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## B_Turner (Aug 24, 2010)

B_Turner said:


> Thanks. I hope they work out okay, even with the round drive "pins."
> 
> I had talked to him early this year about making some 3/8 lp small spline sprockets, but nothing came of it. So I am very curious about how well this veture works out, and if it does work out well I can maybe have him make some in the small spline rim.
> 
> ...



The other follks that use 3/8 lp a lot are chainsaw carvers who like to block out their work with 3/8 lp (with genuine 3/8 lp bars but using regular 3/8 sprockets) because in fact most of their blocking cutting is end grain cutting like milling.

And lately I have been spending a lot of time with hydraulic saws that are inherently smooth but have no AV at all. So I can notice the difference in vibration (I believe) when using LP with a regular drive sprocket vs a chain with a truly matching drive sprocket like .325 (which I always use 8 pin so the chain speed is about the same).

So part of my goal in getting a lp sprocket that fits the chain better is less vibration through my hands. It's a different kind of vibration than motor vibration as the hydraulic saws themselves don't have a piston or crank going back and forth.

Further evidence pointing to the mismatched drive sprocket causing some "vibration" is that my saws designed to run lo pro are a bit smoother in that regard. Although it is not quite a fair test as these saws are spur drive and tend to be one fewer "pin" (6) as compared to using a 3/8 floating rim which is typically 7 pins when used on a small spline saw.


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## BobL (Aug 24, 2010)

I sent an email to Ed and just got this.

"The sprockets are being heat treated and should be back later this week for assembly. We hope to ship next week."

YAY!


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## B_Turner (Aug 24, 2010)

BobL said:


> I sent an email to Ed and just got this.
> 
> "The sprockets are being heat treated and should be back later this week for assembly. We hope to ship next week."
> 
> YAY!



Cool. I eagerly await reports on howthey work out.


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## BobL (Aug 24, 2010)

B_Turner said:


> Cool. I eagerly await reports on howthey work out.



Hopefully someone else will report on this sooner than me. Due to my mangled fingers I'm not supposed to lift anything above about 4 lbs with my left hand for another 6 weeks and then nothing above 10 lbs for 4 weeks after that.


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## B_Turner (Aug 24, 2010)

BobL said:


> Hopefully someone else will report on this sooner than me. Due to my mangled fingers I'm not supposed to lift anything above about 4 lbs with my left hand for another 6 weeks and then nothing above 10 lbs for 4 weeks after that.



I've been tied up for a while and not following AS as closely as normally lately so I did not read about your fingers. 

Bummer to hear about such injuries, and I hope you get through it all as well as possible.

I managed to stick my hand in a big bandsaw a few years ago, and that was a life changing mini second. I got off easy on the grand scale of things.

It's funny when I told one of my brothers what I'd done, he immediately proclaimed "do overs!" Wish we did get a couple do overs in life....

Edit: I searched and found your posting on your injury. Ouch. I squished a finger once bad enough blood squirted through the skin. I don't think much about that injury much anymore, although the finger is still a bit thicker than the other one and on a really cold day I remember.

My brother the doc says with hand injuries it is important to get back range of motion as soon as possible. He says all the tissue esp with fingers needs to move to remember what sort of tissue it is. If it is kept immobile too long it can start to stiffen up and forget what it used to be.


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## BobL (Aug 24, 2010)

B_Turner said:


> I've been tied up for a while and not following AS as closely as normally lately so I did not read about your fingers.
> 
> Bummer to hear about such injuries, and I hope you get through it all as well as possible.
> 
> ...



Bandsaw injury - not good 

Re: My injury
I was surprised that it did not hurt more than it did. The fact that there was a 3/8" webbing strap still between the doors is what probably saved me from worse injuries. The docs have given me little exercises to do and says that using a keyboard is one good one.


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## super3 (Aug 25, 2010)

BobL said:


> Hopefully someone else will report on this sooner than me. Due to my mangled fingers I'm not supposed to lift anything above about 4 lbs with my left hand for another 6 weeks and then nothing above 10 lbs for 4 weeks after that.





You will be pissing right handed for a while huh Bob? :hmm3grin2orange:


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## BobL (Aug 25, 2010)

super3 said:


> You will be pissing right handed for a while huh Bob? :hmm3grin2orange:



For a while it was not even one handed man, it was a bit too hard to undo and do up zippers and buttons so was just wearing elastic waist track-suit pants and doing it like women


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## Andrew96 (Aug 26, 2010)

BobL said:


> For a while it was not even one handed man, it was a bit too hard to undo and do up zippers and buttons so was just wearing elastic waist track-suit pants and doing it like women



Thanks...you just made me spit out my coffee on my keyboard laughing at the visual.


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## BobL (Aug 26, 2010)

Andrew96 said:


> Thanks...you just made me spit out my coffee on my keyboard laughing at the visual.



Visual :monkey: - nooooo - lets not go there.


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## B_Turner (Aug 26, 2010)

So Bob, what are your thoughts on round drive pins on this style rim vs the "normal" driver that in theory at least will contact the drive link with more surface area?

Ed tried to explain to me once why the round drive pin worked as well, but I didn't understand (my problem not his).


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## BobL (Aug 26, 2010)

B_Turner said:


> So Bob, what are your thoughts on round drive pins on this style rim vs the "normal" driver that in theory at least will contact the drive link with more surface area?
> 
> Ed tried to explain to me once why the round drive pin worked as well, but I didn't understand (my problem not his).



I'm not trying to understand it either. I figure the best thing I can do is try them out and see what happens. The greatest damage on stuff like sprockets (and chain drive links) is most likely to come from too much rapid acceleration and chain vibe. 

In theory milling can be a smoother operation than bucking of bigger timber, where there is multiple repositioning of bars and subsequent acceleration takes place. This is where, the use of mill wheels to reduce side bogging and constant saw orientation and constant pressure during a cut really helps. On implementing all of these I have noticed that my sprockets have less wear than in the past.

The other wearer of spockets is chain vibe and chain stretch. This is where things like equal cutter length, and lower (ie 10º) toplate angles help considerably. Blunt chains will also magnify vibe so keeping the chain as cool and a sharp as possible at all time helps. Also things like bar maintenance using aux oilers and not forcing the saw all help.


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