# Bees.....



## isaaccarlson (Jul 11, 2013)

I was about an hour and a half into a removal today and I got stung by something with yellow and black stripes.
Only one of em, but it made me think twice about having a rope set in the top of the tree to get down faster.
If I had been swarmed, I don't know what would have happened. It took me a while to get down with spurs because I had to pass 3 crotches.
My wife found a wasp nest in one of the homeowner's ladders, but we are not sure if the ladder was the source. There was only one that I saw, but it sure hurts. My hand is all swollen up and my lower arm too. I took benadryl and a couple other things and nothing seems to help. My wife made a poultice for it, so we will see what happens. Dang bees, I got nailed by one last year that had a small nest on one of my ladders. Same hand and same result.

Anybody got a good remedy or does it need to run it's course?


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## magictoad (Jul 11, 2013)

It will run its course now, you can take a antihistamine tablet and anything that helps with the swelling.

I used to be a bee keeper until i got stung which landed me in A&E hospital with anaphylaxis shock, i had been stung loads in the past but it just takes that one, and you do not build up immunity like lots of people say.


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## imagineero (Jul 11, 2013)

Yeah it's the opposite. I've got a buddy who never was allergic, bug got swarmed and stung over 400 times mostly around the face and neck. He went into a coma for a while and came pretty close to dying. He's not completely allergic and one sting would kill him. He has to carry an epi pen everywhere with him.


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## formationrx (Jul 11, 2013)

*...*

use local wildflower honey on it....


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## magictoad (Jul 11, 2013)

imagineero said:


> Yeah it's the opposite. I've got a buddy who never was allergic, bug got swarmed and stung over 400 times mostly around the face and neck. He went into a coma for a while and came pretty close to dying. He's not completely allergic and one sting would kill him. He has to carry an epi pen everywhere with him.



I carry two epipens just in case of multi stings when one epipen will not be enough also carry antihistamine tabs at all times.


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## isaaccarlson (Jul 11, 2013)

Thank you for the honey tip. I have some raw honey in the kitchen!

I will be packing antihistamine tablets in my gear bag. I have never used an epi pen. What do they do and how do they work? Do you have to go to the doc after using one?


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## isaaccarlson (Jul 11, 2013)

Holy cow guys! I found a video of an epi pen on youtube and I don't think I could stick that in me.


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## Grouchy old man (Jul 11, 2013)

isaaccarlson said:


> Holy cow guys! I found a video of an epi pen on youtube and I don't think I could stick that in me.



Ya mean THIS ONE?


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## Jefflac02 (Jul 11, 2013)

*Try liquid hand soap*

Use it immediately after a sting and in 10 to 15 mins the pain and swelling will be gone. learned this trick from an amishman none the less.


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## woodchuck357 (Jul 11, 2013)

isaaccarlson said:


> I was about an hour and a half into a removal today and I got stung by something with yellow and black stripes.
> Only one of em, but it made me think twice about having a rope set in the top of the tree to get down fast


Sounds like a solitary hornet, not a bee. Worse sting than bees.solitary hornet - Google Search


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## KenJax Tree (Jul 11, 2013)

isaaccarlson said:


> Holy cow guys! I found a video of an epi pen on youtube and I don't think I could stick that in me.



If you're allergic to stings its either that or you die


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## magictoad (Jul 12, 2013)

isaaccarlson said:


> Thank you for the honey tip. I have some raw honey in the kitchen!
> 
> I will be packing antihistamine tablets in my gear bag. I have never used an epi pen. What do they do and how do they work? Do you have to go to the doc after using one?




Do not use one unless its been prescribed to you, and yes you need to get to hospital if you do use one, its only for emergency use.


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## isaaccarlson (Jul 12, 2013)

I have never been prescribed one, so maybe I'm ok in that department. The swelling is going down, so thanks for the honey suggestion. I covered my arm in it and wrapped a towel around it so I didn't get everything sticky. It is still sore, but the swelling is down. I can even make a fist.


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## magictoad (Jul 12, 2013)

isaaccarlson said:


> I have never been prescribed one, so maybe I'm ok in that department. The swelling is going down, so thanks for the honey suggestion. I covered my arm in it and wrapped a towel around it so I didn't get everything sticky. It is still sore, but the swelling is down. I can even make a fist.



Just about the norm for a wasp/bee sting, you would know if you were allergic to bee/wasp stings within minutes of being stung.

When i became allergic i wanted to rip the skin of my hands, itched all over my torso like i was on fire, lips started to get tight, i knew i was in trouble at this point and phoned for a meat wagon, lucky me i was only a few minutes from a hospital, and all because of one sting to my little finger.
I had kept bee's for ten years and the odd sting was part of the pleasure of keeping bees.

I am not allergic to wasp stings, found that out last winter when i put a new pair of chainsaw trousers on for the first time, painful very, swelling lots, i will not go into details precisely where but walking was a new experience i would not want to repeat, i can not find a suitable smiley.


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## squad143 (Jul 12, 2013)

Climbing trees and encountering bees occasionally go hand in hand.

If you continually have bees/wasp making nests in you ladder rungs, fill the ends with the expanding foam that they use on windows and doors. Works great. Added bonus is that it also eliminates that whistle/hum the ladders make when on the top of the truck travelling down the road.


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## millbilly (Jul 12, 2013)

*bald face hornets*

While doing storm damage a few years ago, I was cutting up a fallen tree. While I was sawing it up I got stung on the back, right next to my left shoulder blade. I stopped sawing and looked around for a nest which I couldn't find. Went back to sawing, about 8/9 minutes later bang hit again in the exact same spot within 1/64". Stopped again and really looked for the nest to no avail. Went back to sawing a few minutes later, bang same thing, in the same exact spot.
Well that was enough I became determined to find the nest. I looked around and discovered a small vine that went from the tree I was working on that went up into a spruce about 25 feet away and there it was, a big ole bag of bees, white faced hornets. As I shook the tree the vine jiggled their nest and they tool offense.

I think the first bee that stung me, left a hormone that guided the next two hornets to the same spot on my back.


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## TheJollyLogger (Jul 13, 2013)

I've been swarmed three times, twice in a tree and once on the ground. I'm not allergic allergic, but ya get hit 50-60 times and it'll put ya down for a couple days.


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## sgreanbeans (Jul 13, 2013)

millbilly said:


> While doing storm damage a few years ago, I was cutting up a fallen tree. While I was sawing it up I got stung on the back, right next to my left shoulder blade. I stopped sawing and looked around for a nest which I couldn't find. Went back to sawing, about 8/9 minutes later bang hit again in the exact same spot within 1/64". Stopped again and really looked for the nest to no avail. Went back to sawing a few minutes later, bang same thing, in the same exact spot.
> Well that was enough I became determined to find the nest. I looked around and discovered a small vine that went from the tree I was working on that went up into a spruce about 25 feet away and there it was, a big ole bag of bees, white faced hornets. As I shook the tree the vine jiggled their nest and they tool offense.
> 
> I think the first bee that stung me, left a hormone that guided the next two hornets to the same spot on my back.



Those things are freaking nasty, I got hit by them twice now. Second time was pretty bad and I had a bad reaction to the venom. Was stung 8 times on that one. I looked them up, Bald Face Hornets, most aggressive bee/hornet/wasp/stingy flying thing out there. They need no provocation, just meat! Their nest is hard to see in a thick canopy. Both times I was in a ash, so now, whenever I am in one, anything that goes by me, I just assume its one of them and start to panic!


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## millbilly (Jul 13, 2013)

*bee stories I got 100 of them*

I love good ole bee stories! Did I ever tell you guys about the summer of 1961? Well anyways, It was a very educational year me. I was only 11 at the time so my mind was like a blank slate and needed to be molded. My father, who saw the world just a little bit different. He took it upon himself to learn me about explosives. He went into the house and came out with a box of cherry bombs. Cherry bombs were sort of legal back then, located in the hills of rural Appalachia. Next he took a piece of bailing wire and attached a cherry bomb to the end of a long pole. He lit the fuse, and stuck that pole right up next to a bag of them there white face hornets. Kaboom! You can imagine what happened, hornets everywhere. I still laugh today think bout that lesson. Later on the same day he gave me another lesson. He showed me how to do a little fishin, using the same bee exterminating tools. The fishing results were much better of course. Those ole crappies just floated to the top.


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## Grouchy old man (Jul 13, 2013)

> Bald Face Hornets, most aggressive bee/hornet/wasp/stingy flying thing out there.



Dunno about that. I had a football sized nest of them hanging over the side door to my shop couple of summers ago. Even with opening and slamming the door they weren't bothered. Maybe it was because we had an agreement- you leave me alone and I'll leave you alone. We peacefully coexisted all summer and when it turned cold I knocked it down.

Then again I knew a guy who took a hose to a nest (not sure if it was the bald faced) and he is dead. Not the thing to do.


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## woodchuck357 (Jul 13, 2013)

Back in the dark ages, when I was a young man, a friend built a screen cage about 6 ft high by 8 to 10 ft square. We went out at night and bagged a small hornet nest, hung it in the cage, he fed them meat scraps and provided colored paper and water so they could expand their nest. When winter came the hornets were sprayed, the nest sliced into inch thick sections which he framed and sold as art, sure looked fancy. One of the donated center slices sold at a charity auction for over 500 bucks! That was a lot more money in the fifties than it is now.


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## Sunrise Guy (Jul 15, 2013)

millbilly said:


> I love good ole bee stories! Did I ever tell you guys about the summer of 1961? Well anyways, It was a very educational year me. I was only 11 at the time so my mind was like a blank slate and needed to be molded. My father, who saw the world just a little bit different. He took it upon himself to learn me about explosives. He went into the house and came out with a box of cherry bombs. Cherry bombs were sort of legal back then, located in the hills of rural Appalachia. Next he took a piece of bailing wire and attached a cherry bomb to the end of a long pole. He lit the fuse, and stuck that pole right up next to a bag of them there white face hornets. Kaboom! You can imagine what happened, hornets everywhere. I still laugh today think bout that lesson. Later on the same day he gave me another lesson. He showed me how to do a little fishin, using the same bee exterminating tools. The fishing results were much better of course. Those ole crappies just floated to the top.



Huhyuck, huhyuck--------And I'm sure your mate is the best wife, sister and mom you've ever had, right?


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## squad143 (Jul 15, 2013)

Encountered another nest today removing a large hazardous limb from a maple. 

After cutting and lowering the limb I heard the "oh too familiar" buzzing. Looked up and saw a pretty big swam about 15' above me. A few we're coming within range, so I sped things up, removing the block. Got lucky, only got stung once before untying the block and bailing out of the tree.


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## jimbo666 (Aug 4, 2013)

ive got stung by wasps near the eyes 2 time last week on a take down .. took 3 days big nose half closed eye.. fine now...i burned the nest ...next day another nest ...#### 2in2 burned down heheh


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## formationrx (Aug 4, 2013)

*...*

saw this skateboard in the can... thought id see if it was any good... i was gonna give it to my neighbors kids... well these bastards came swarming out and thought they'd help me out by nailing me 3 times on the arm first thing in the morning... it woke me up quick...


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## bootboy (Aug 4, 2013)

I hate the little bastards. But once you've been stung, ice the affected area and use lots of hydrocortisone cream. Makes it tolerable till it goes away. Benadryl at night helps the itching and helps ya sleep. Advil also helps reduce inflammation. 

My reactions get progressively worse, so now I have an epi-pen, two pack actually. Hope I never need it. 

I destroy any nest I find with impunity and vengeful hate.


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## Grace Tree (Aug 4, 2013)

Was taking some big leads off an ancient maple Thursday. Cut a hollow branch and felt pain up under my helmet. I didn't see them at first so I didn't know what was happening until I looked down and saw them on my shirt. They got me five times. I wish my lift had a "get out of Dodge" mode. Went back up with starting fluid and burned them out but those stings on my head hurt all day and itched like crazy the next day. Home owner asked me to knock down an old apple tree the next day and when it went over out came the bees. Didn't get stung. 'Bout set the stump on fire burning them out. Wife reached into some baby clothes at a garage sale Sat. and got stung. That time of year.
Phil


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## JakeG (Aug 4, 2013)

I had a nice encounter with bees (see link below). They chased me over 150 yards and the stinks hurt for 8-9 days so I wonder if they were Africanized bees..?

After this ordeal I'm pretty jumpy but it's gettin better lol... Just bee careful. 

http://www.arboristsite.com/forestry-logging-forum/241026.htm


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## capecodtree (Aug 4, 2013)

*bee stings*

Back in the day when i got stung i would get a local reaction, swelling,redness,etc. As time went on the reactions got bigger and lasted longer until eventually my throat swelled almost shut after a sting to the ear. I drove myself to the hospital were i went into aniphilactic shock. All this for one sting, and using my epi pen.
When i first started using an epi pen it was an actual syringe, needle about an inch long, a turniquet and anti histamine pills were also included in the kit. you had two doses in one syringe. once you had injected yourself once, you turned the plunger? part of the syringe past a plastic stop and you could inject dose #2, kinda cool.
Even though I do more sales than climbing these days my epi pen gets packed with my lunch every day.


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## B Harrison (Aug 4, 2013)

Get some sting sticks. You break them and rub into the stink immediately, the pain is gone in the amount of time it takes to rub it in.

As for an epi pen they are for an allergy. You very well could be allergic as most people don't swell that bad. I got stung yesterday by yellow and black (yellow jacket) and it did little more than piss me off. Made my finger sore until I got home then treated with After Bite XTRA as I am out of sting sticks. It works the same way and almost instantly the pain was gone. I picked this stuff up at the Food Lion grocery just a couple days ago.

Common Brown Hornets are a bit of a tough one as are Bald Faced Swamp Wasps, which nest 98% of the time in trees. I am unsure exactly what there called but there are really big wasps around the size of humming birds that feed on cicadas and other large insects (maybe rodents) I would hate to get stung by one of these. Big Ass Wasp Owns Cicada - YouTube but these live in the ground.


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## Grouchy old man (Aug 4, 2013)

That's a cicada killer wasp. Don't think they will bother you or anything other than cicadas. Only the females have stingers.


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## woodchuck357 (Aug 4, 2013)

*Kill the wasps but save the honey bees!*

when I encounter a hive or swarm of honey bees that I don't have time to mess with, I call one of the local bee keepers to help save them to a bee gum.

Bee gum=bee hive box; they used to be made from hollow gum trees


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## isaaccarlson (Aug 9, 2013)

I got stung again yesterday. paper wasp got me in the left cheek. I remembered right away what you guys told me to do and put liquid soap on it, then hydrogen peroxide, then gas, then peroxide again. Then some hydrocortisone and took some benadryl. My wife said a prayer for me not to swell up.:msp_thumbup: There is only VERY minimal swelling. Barely noticeable, just a light puffing around the sting. The lady at walgreens thought it was funny when I told her all the things I put on it.:hmm3grin2orange:


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## popwarlick (Aug 24, 2013)

*Y'all think I'm crazy*

I know I'm from the south but ,no kidding,if you get stung ,if you r anyone chew tobacco or dip or smoke,as soon as you get stung,take some tobacco juice,know it sounds gross,and rub it on the sting.i ant lying, it takes the swelling and the hurt out of the sting.Its the nicotine that does it..


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## husqvarna335xpt (Aug 24, 2013)

Popwarlick is correct grind a dip in it and carry on...


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## Fireaxman (Aug 25, 2013)

Grouchy old man said:


> That's a cicada killer wasp. Don't think they will bother you or anything other than cicadas. Only the females have stingers.



Cicada killers have a very nasty sting, as do mud daubers and carpenter bees. They are just not as aggressive as bees and paper wasps because they do not defend a colony, they are more solitary. Pin one down and see what happens. Ask me how I know.

Only the females of any species of wasp or bee have stingers. The stinger is a modified ovipositor. Just that with colonizing bees and wasps it is the females that defend the nest (for obvious reasons).

I pretty much leave the honey bees and cicada killers alone. They have a purpose, and they are not usually aggressive. But the wasps and hornets deserve to be extinct. Been stung too many times by them for no good reason.

Cicada Killer Wasp stinging a Cicada - YouTube


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## StrataTree (Aug 27, 2013)

Ok...on Friday the 16th I got stung twice by yellow jackets, never had an allergy before. I had no warning as to what was about to happen other than a metallic taste in my mouth. About 2.5 minutes later I was unresponsive, in full seizure and foaming at the mouth. My coworkers saved my life that day. I was rushed by ambulance to the trauma center, spent nearly two hours there then about 5 more in a recovery room. The E.R. Doctor visited me in recovery and told me I barely survived the ordeal! I had a very severe anaphalactic shock reaction out of the blue. We are encountering a ridiculous number of yellow jackets this year. I now have two epipens everywhere. I have yet to return to work. Doc says I am at risk of future severe reactions and should look for a new line of work.... A 14 year old girl died in California from this recently at summer camp. 11 adult epipens were used and she still died. To far away from medical help. I am now evaluating my options. Bummin in Oregon:msp_sad:


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## pdqdl (Aug 28, 2013)

magictoad said:


> Do not use one unless its been prescribed to you, and yes you need to get to hospital if you do use one, its only for emergency use.



I had an employee get stung last week; he never told me he was acutely allergic.

So he raced to the nearest pharmacy; he reported he could only wheeze "EPI..PEN" when he got to the pharmacy. They began to ask him where his prescription was, he didn't have it with him, so he tottered over to where the benadryl was, then he passed out.

I guess it is a good thing the fire department was right across the street. When the paramedics gave him the epi-pen shot and proceeded to take him to the hospital, he declined to go. Said he couldn't afford that, thanks for the help guys, and came back to the shop.

I didn't object when he went home early, and I didn't complain when he took the next day off. I haven't yet decided what to do about his allergy issues yet.


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## StrataTree (Aug 28, 2013)

Well there are many considerations...sounds like he is at risk of future shock reactions and the onset of symptoms could happen much faster next time. My doc said 5-15 min is the norm for a fast reaction. Some times two hours can pass before the shock reaction begins. I was told that 2.5 min. Is very rare for that severe of a reaction to set in. I have since heard stories of guys that drop even faster...so fast that they can't self administer an epipen in time. Two steps after a sting and they are on the ground, unresponsive, and in seizure. I recommend you carry epipens, 2-4 of them at least. Have your staff get trained and certified to administer. These do no harm... No reason why everyone shouldn't carry 'em. Mountain biker died here locally same day as my reaction. He knew he was allergic, but didnt have pens on him. Got stung, didnt get help in time. I feel like I don't want to put my body through that experience again anytime soon. They had to O.D. me to stabilize me and my heart reacted to the drugs and it got tense in the E.R. For a bit while they dealt with that. I also feel for my coworkers. If I return to work they will have the responsibility of perhaps dealing with me having an anaphactic shock reaction the next time I'm stung. I feel like its a lot to ask. It could be said that it is a distraction to the crew. And perhaps puts others at risk of injury due to the distraction that my predicament may cause. Pondering......


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## popwarlick (Sep 3, 2013)

*Bad boys*

Man this year has been tough,yellow jackets n wasps.Other day I had to cut a big oak,when I rolled my saw down to take the bottom of the notch out I guess the exhaust was blowing down their entrance.Not good,couldn't see them for all the chips,but it didn't take long to figger it out.They got under my chaps plus etc. Quit counting at 21 one one arm.Im like y'all,yella jackets I can do without


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## LegDeLimber (Sep 3, 2013)

I wonder about that rising allergy issue too. 
It's always been during yardwork for me.
Around here the jackets tend to favor ground nests for some reason.

But reaction to Yellow Jackets stings have gone from disturbing the nest
and getting lit up pretty good (20~60 stings) before you can get out of the area.
I'd wait an hour or so for them to settle a bit and go fetch the mower or tools then get back to work (in a different spot of course)
I'd be swollen and sore from them but able to manage.

Fast forward to last summer and while mowing in front yard I disturbed a small nest that was less than two weeks old.
This was a regularly cut area is why I know it to be fresh.
I got 5~6 stings on the legs and it felt like I had the flue or something
and all my joints hurt.
Was hard to walk for a couple of days and still felt sore all over for a few about a week.

I've noticed if you are digging in ground and there is a colony around
They will show up and seem to be after any bugs/worms that you've
cut while digging.

They seem to be pretty good parasite removers for yard plants
But I can't risk getting into a nest anymore, so I'm always looking for 
any in the area and watch for the direction they are flying off towards,
to try and get a location for eradication.


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## ducaticorse (Sep 3, 2013)

KenJax Tree said:


> If you're allergic to stings its either that or you die



Or my personal favorite, the trachiotomy


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## jefflovstrom (Sep 3, 2013)

ducaticorse said:


> Or my personal favorite, the trachiotomy



Always carry a pen,,lol
Jeff


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## pdqdl (Sep 4, 2013)

The common perception is that your throat swells up and you cannot breath, but that really isn't the whole story.

It is really a case of all your blood vessels developing leaks, which vastly increases the inter-cellular fluids everywhere...including your lungs. Although it seems like you are being choked by the neck, you are really having a really nasty asthma attack (while also being choked by the neck). Poking a hole in your trachea really won't help very much.

Then there is the hypervolemia that results from all your blood vessels getting leaky. What this means is that you run out of blood volume because your capillaries and other blood vessels leaked nearly all the fluid out of your blood. As you might imagine, this has some really undesirable side effects, not the least of which is dying.

An epipen gives you a nice shot of epinephrine, which mostly fixes the leakiness of your blood vessels. If you survive long enough, everything comes back into balance and you are ok. A muscle injection of 30mg of epinephrine takes 16 minutes to reach maximum blood plasma levels. How long did you say you can hold your breath?


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## pdqdl (Sep 4, 2013)

Speaking of epipens, they are stupidly expensive. An adult version has .30mg [fixed!] of epinephrine, and costs around $300.00 (or more). A common bottle of epinephrine is less than $10, and diabetic syringes are easily acquired to do the job correctly.

That is where your medical dollars go, folks: profits to the medical providers.


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## futbalfantic (Sep 4, 2013)

30mg of epi?!?!? The dose is 0.3 mg. Giving someone an injection of epinephrine who is not in anaphylactic shock can be just as fatal as anaphylactic shock it's self. Epi is EXTREMELY hard on the heart and by the very nature of it's self can cause a MI (heart attack). I do not condone nor do I recommend giving an epipen to an individual whom it is not prescribed for but if I were it would be someone who was stung, has hives on a part of the body not effected by a sting (in the case of a single sting), trouble breathing (see bronco-spasam below), and is sweating/feeling faint. 

The problem with anaphylactic shock is a systemic (over the entire body) release of histamine. Histamine causes the blood vessels to dialate which in turn lowers your blood pressure to a dangerous level, depriving your brain of oxygen. Extreme and sudden drop in blood pressure causes you to have cold sweats and makes you feel weak, dizzy, lightheaded, faint, and eventually pass out. 

Bronco-spasam is the narrowing of the lower parts of the airway. (the bronchi and lower). This is the same thing as an asthma attack. Wheezing, when bad, can be heard from a few feet away, and I'm sure there is a YouTube video out there that has it on there. 

Definitive care is a must if you have an anaphylactic reaction. The venom from the sting will out last any supply of Epipens that you carry with you. Reactions can last hours depending on the severity and susceptibility. 

That is all, back to lurking


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## pdqdl (Sep 4, 2013)

Oops. :taped: That's what happens when you run on memory. At this point, I'm not sure if that was a memory lapse or just a typo.

Looks like I was off by a couple of decimal points. I'm not allergic to the bees, so I don't have any epipens to read the label on. If any of you fellows has a bottle of epinephrine and a syringe sitting around, be sure to not to make the same mistake I did. 

You seem pretty knowledgeable on this stuff. Thanks for fixing my error. :msp_thumbup: 

Yes, you are right on the histamines and all the rest. That was a rather nice explanation you put up. I was simplifying the conversation for folks that don't have any physiology in their background. Dilation is not really a sufficient description of the problem, the blood vessels actually loose enough water/lymph/plasma that the blood volume is significantly reduced. Hypovolemia is a bigger problem than just "dilation". "Leaky" blood vessels seemed like the best expression for the problem. 

In my recent foray into anaphylaxis, I was unable to determine why bronchospasm is so strongly associated with anaphylactic shock when all the similar smooth muscles in the blood vessels are relaxing. You would think that the smooth muscles in the bronchioles would behave the same, but they don't. Increasing blood flow makes sense, from a healing perspective, but cutting off the oxygen makes no sense from a survival perspective. I wonder what the reason for that is?


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## lone wolf (Sep 4, 2013)

isaaccarlson said:


> I have never been prescribed one, so maybe I'm ok in that department. The swelling is going down, so thanks for the honey suggestion. I covered my arm in it and wrapped a towel around it so I didn't get everything sticky. It is still sore, but the swelling is down. I can even make a fist.



Then you are allergic and should be careful not to get stung by more than one or two. Maybe get an epi pen.


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## pdqdl (Sep 4, 2013)

Damn good suggestion!

I would be having a funeral if my employee had been very far from the fire station where the EMT's were at. The people at the pharmacy were just going to watch him die right there, even though he was gasping for an epipen when he got to their counter. 

He called his wife and made final goodbyes as he was racing to the pharmacy, so he knew he had a big problem.


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## lone wolf (Sep 4, 2013)

pdqdl said:


> Damn good suggestion!
> 
> I would be having a funeral if my employee had been very far from the fire station where the EMT's were at. The people at the pharmacy were just going to watch him die right there, even though he was gasping for an epipen when he got to their counter.
> 
> He called his wife and made final goodbyes as he was racing to the pharmacy, so he knew he had a big problem.



Stupid pharmacy was worried they would get sued if they gave it to him I guess!


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## pdqdl (Sep 4, 2013)

isaaccarlson said:


> I got stung again yesterday. paper wasp got me in the left cheek. I remembered right away what you guys told me to do and put liquid soap on it, then hydrogen peroxide, then gas, then peroxide again. Then some hydrocortisone and took some benadryl. My wife said a prayer for me not to swell up.:msp_thumbup: There is only VERY minimal swelling. Barely noticeable, just a light puffing around the sting. The lady at walgreens thought it was funny when I told her all the things I put on it.:hmm3grin2orange:



That's just crazy; I'm with the lady at Walgreens on that one.

Take the benadryl first, then relax some. Make sure that you are not too far from a phone and be alert for worse signs. Liquid soap will have no affect on any sting, but it might serve to mask the attack pheromones for the insects that stung you. Hydrogen peroxide is a very limited antibacterial agent that will have no affect whatsoever on a sting. It won't even be effective on reducing infections because the bees are using a very tiny hypodermic needle. Hydrogen peroxide will just be bubbling on the surface of your skin. Gasoline, if properly applied, can assure that you will need to go to the hospital. If properly applied to the bees, it will dramatically reduce the number of stings they can deliver. 

There are a lot of home remedies that are often suggested for common injuries. Many of them are just pointless or of questionable merit. For stings, I always wondered about the ever popular baking soda poultice. I just don't see how that would help, either.


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## lone wolf (Sep 4, 2013)

Ice is the only thing that really helps! Put a cold compress on the swollen area and rest for a day or two.


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## pdqdl (Sep 4, 2013)

lone wolf said:


> Stupid pharmacy was worried they would get sued if they gave it to him I guess!



I'm sure that was it; probably a "policy" that employees are rigidly trained to never break. I wonder how much money a good lawyer would get from them for letting someone die on the floor at their pharmacy counter, while begging for the cure?


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## lone wolf (Sep 4, 2013)

pdqdl said:


> I'm sure that was it; probably a "policy" that employees are rigidly trained to never break. I wonder how much money a good lawyer would get from them for letting someone die on the floor at their pharmacy counter, while begging for the cure?



I would have let him take it from me no fault of mine:msp_rolleyes:


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## futbalfantic (Sep 4, 2013)

If the pharmacy gave him an epipen they would go to jail and the pharmacist would lose there $150k/yr+ license/salary. That is prescribing medication, truth of the matter but unfortunate. 

As far as the bronco spasam and smooth muscle dilation. The receptors in the lungs are the opposite of the body. The sympathetic (fight or flight, epi receptors) tighten the blood vessels down, make the heart beat faster and harder, and *open up the lungs to allow more air in and out.* The parasympathetic does the exact opposite which is where the wheezing comes in. 

As for as the "leaky" vessels go. It's two fold. The leaking it's self which causes hypovolemia but you also get relative hypovolemia with vessel dilation.


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## pdqdl (Sep 5, 2013)

It might be a state licensing violation, but I don't think you could possibly go to jail for doing emergency treatments. "Practicing medicine without a license" is the sort of charge that is saved for folks that are doing quasi-medical treatments for money that don't have a license, or perhaps the blatant frauds that are pretending to be doctors.

If I was the pharmacist, I am pretty certain that I would have taken some action, damn the remote chance of legal complications. Life endows us with opportunities to do good things, and I would never shrink from saving somebodies life because I didn't have a license to stick them with an epipen.

Besides, I'll bet the average pharmacist knows way more about epipen usage than the average paramedic. Those guys have to study up extensively on all the medicines that they dispense.


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## futbalfantic (Sep 5, 2013)

Yes a pharm knows the drugs. Just not quite when to use them


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## magictoad (Sep 8, 2013)

StrataTree said:


> Well there are many considerations...sounds like he is at risk of future shock reactions and the onset of symptoms could happen much faster next time. My doc said 5-15 min is the norm for a fast reaction. Some times two hours can pass before the shock reaction begins. I was told that 2.5 min. Is very rare for that severe of a reaction to set in. I have since heard stories of guys that drop even faster...so fast that they can't self administer an epipen in time. Two steps after a sting and they are on the ground, unresponsive, and in seizure. I recommend you carry epipens, 2-4 of them at least. Have your staff get trained and certified to administer. These do no harm... No reason why everyone shouldn't carry 'em. Mountain biker died here locally same day as my reaction. He knew he was allergic, but didnt have pens on him. Got stung, didnt get help in time. I feel like I don't want to put my body through that experience again anytime soon. They had to O.D. me to stabilize me and my heart reacted to the drugs and it got tense in the E.R. For a bit while they dealt with that. I also feel for my coworkers. If I return to work they will have the responsibility of perhaps dealing with me having an anaphactic shock reaction the next time I'm stung. I feel like its a lot to ask. It could be said that it is a distraction to the crew. And perhaps puts others at risk of injury due to the distraction that my predicament may cause. Pondering......




Get yourself some antihistamine pills from your Dr. not the ones you can buy over the counter, take them as you set of for work or at least 1 hour before you start work, carry a couple of epi pens and the antihistamine pills and get back to work, you stand a good chance of being stung no matter what you do in life so you may as well carry on doing what you love.
As the Land Rover fraternity say here in the UK "One life live it" you are a long time dead.


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