# Some pics from yesterday's pine



## Stihl Alive (Jan 12, 2009)

quality not very good, wife was crying and shaking when she took the pictures. Everything went very smoothly topping and blocking until the last 6ft section I blocked out. We were using the crotch in the stem beside this tree to rig it down and I tied my knot wrong. Plus, on a chunk this size I should have put a split tail and a sliding knot on it, but I didn't. I don't know if I was tired or in a hurry or what, but this 1500 lb (at least) chunk of wood just did graze the corner of the shed. Bent the tin down and broke 6" piece of 1X4. Very lucky. 

As soon as that piece pulled my knot apart I stopped everything. I called my new best friend, the tree pro, and went to his house. We went over the knots over and over again. Turns out I just pulled the tail through the wrong hole. Little mistake, BIG consequences. Anyway, both pines could be just notched and pulled over now, but I'm going to block them down for the practice. 

View attachment 86523


View attachment 86524


View attachment 86525


View attachment 86526


View attachment 86527


----------



## Stihl Alive (Jan 12, 2009)

View attachment 86528


View attachment 86529


----------



## tomtrees58 (Jan 12, 2009)

looking good tom trees


----------



## LAH (Jan 12, 2009)

Enjoyed the pictures.


----------



## Podaltura (Jan 12, 2009)

Your helmet are marvelous!!!!!!!!


----------



## chevytaHOE5674 (Jan 12, 2009)

Looks good, should rotate the pictures. I had to turn my puter to see what was up.


----------



## Stihl Alive (Jan 12, 2009)

chevytaHOE5674 said:


> Looks good, should rotate the pictures. I had to turn my puter to see what was up.




HAHA, sorry about that. I thought about that whenI viewed them after posting them, but I just turned my head. You just made me blow coffee through my nose.


----------



## ozzy42 (Jan 12, 2009)

THANKS A LOT STIHL now i can't straighten my neck out





JUST KIDDIN NICE PICS


----------



## Rftreeman (Jan 12, 2009)

looking good, glad to here and see that you are learning, too bad for the simple mistake, we all have done it a time or two.

I think we're married to the same lady, that's how my wife takes pictures, sideways........lol......

oh yeah, your wife really loves you or either she was scared you would fall on her...


----------



## Ted-RI (Jan 13, 2009)

I find that having the proper ppe(eyes, ears, head) allows me to be more comfortable in a tree. When I'm comfy it speeds up the learning process. Your wife would probably appreciate it too. All in all good effort.


----------



## thejdman04 (Jan 13, 2009)

Nice pics


----------



## Stihl Alive (Jan 13, 2009)

Ted-RI said:


> I find that having the proper ppe(eyes, ears, head) allows me to be more comfortable in a tree. When I'm comfy it speeds up the learning process. Your wife would probably appreciate it too. All in all good effort.




you wear hearing protection in a tree?

I usually have a hard hat and the net glasses I had on in these pics, but I don't hear that well anyway, so I don't wear hearing protection. I found that I can hear the branches cracking and the ground guys better without it. I don't even wear it on the ground much, seems like all I can hear is the saw, and nothing else. Makes me paranoid.


----------



## squad143 (Jan 13, 2009)

Stihl Alive;1323917)
I don't hear that well anyway said:


> #2 Line of the year so far.


----------



## squad143 (Jan 13, 2009)

What?..... 

What did you say?

......

......

Sorry, I can't hear you..... hearings bad on the saw side.

.....

Even worse on the chipper side.


----------



## RedlineIt (Jan 13, 2009)

Two things:

Hearing damage is progressive and unreversable. It will be nice to hear the oohs and aahs of your grandchildren when they see these photos. Do yourself a favour and muff-up or plug-up and develop a system of hand signals with your groundies.

Undercut: Start using one. That peel looks like it came too close, and while there are situations where a pro will use a peel, I don't see that here. That could have gone bad.

Ok, three things: Hard to tell why, but in a lot of shots you look too close to the tree, like you're hugging it. Lean back, this job is all about body control. I see a couple of photos where an overhead TIP would make your life much easier.

RedlineIt


----------



## Nailsbeats (Jan 13, 2009)

I run muffs on my helmet in the tree and can hear everything I need to hear. They also help protect the head from side impact for when you don't hear that widowmaker comming. 

Really though they help keep the helmet on, ears warm, protected, and hearing intact. They also help you get in a zone if thats your thing.


----------



## Nailsbeats (Jan 13, 2009)

RedlineIt said:


> Two things:
> 
> Hearing damage is progressive and unreversable. It will be nice to hear the oohs and aahs of your grandchildren when they see these photos. Do yourself a favour and muff-up or plug-up and develop a system of hand signals with your groundies.
> 
> ...



Good post, I agree.


----------



## treeshot (Jan 13, 2009)

*Oops!*

Good thing this is a small tree,aka a weed tree ,bigger tree bigger damage,!thanks for the pics!:greenchainsaw: :greenchainsaw:


----------



## Col2y (Jan 13, 2009)

no you dont have to wear hard hats on horizontal trees, everything falls down and away from you 

Ha cheers mate stay safe


----------



## Stihl Alive (Jan 13, 2009)

the pics where I was so close to the tree is when the top came out. I'ts kind of hard to see in the pics but the part of the tree I was on was leaning away from me, I was almost lying on it at times. I like to be pretty tight when the top comes out and I go for a ride. Am I doing that wrong?

Thanks for the input, especially about the PPE. I'll try to start wearing my muffs on the ground and some plugs in the air. It's not like I don't have them, I just need to make it a habit I guess.


----------



## Ted-RI (Jan 14, 2009)

Stihl Alive said:


> you wear hearing protection in a tree?




Yes.


----------



## Bermie (Jan 14, 2009)

Stihl Alive said:


> the pics where I was so close to the tree is when the top came out. I'ts kind of hard to see in the pics but the part of the tree I was on was leaning away from me, I was almost lying on it at times. I like to be pretty tight when the top comes out and I go for a ride. Am I doing that wrong?
> 
> Thanks for the input, especially about the PPE. .



When the top goes out...
You should lean back into your lanyard/climbline, straight legs, hands behind the direction of fall, brace your arms with elbows locked, this ensures your spikes are at the right angle and you are braced into the top of the tree, so when it wobbles and moves you go with the movement and are secure (as possible) and don't get flung about.
Hugging close increases the risk of gaffing out and getting flung around, also your lanyard/climbline will be loose...


----------



## fishercat (Jan 14, 2009)

*i never wear a helmet in the tree.never will.*

but if saws and chippers are running,i'm wearing ear protection.


----------



## Stihl Alive (Jan 14, 2009)

Bermie said:


> When the top goes out...
> You should lean back into your lanyard/climbline, straight legs, hands behind the direction of fall, brace your arms with elbows locked, this ensures your spikes are at the right angle and you are braced into the top of the tree, so when it wobbles and moves you go with the movement and are secure (as possible) and don't get flung about.
> Hugging close increases the risk of gaffing out and getting flung around, also your lanyard/climbline will be loose...




got it. this is one of the cases where I shoudl NOT trust my instincts. 

thank you.


----------



## treemandan (Jan 14, 2009)

Stihl Alive said:


> got it. this is one of the cases where I shoudl NOT trust my instincts.
> 
> thank you.



Keep in mind by the time you do all that its to late. Do that on that pine you just did when you have poor body leverage on a twisty spar and the limb lowered gets snagged you aen't going to have the time to stow the saw and obtain enough grip with your hands by the time the limb dropped catches.
By placing your line below the pulley you can tuck em tight up against the rigging ( out of the way) and push in and up with your spikes while keeping real tight without your hands. You would be pretty wedged in then, you are not going to go anywhere. DO NOT ever try to hug a spar below the pulley.
Now this affords the capablity of hugging the spar with one arm, saw in the other. Your arm is above the pulley where most people would have the life lines place, your head and chest is also above the cut spar.


----------



## Ted-RI (Jan 14, 2009)

Fishercat, you should wear a helmet. If not for yourself do it for the people who love you. It only takes a little bit to do big damage to your brain.
Treemandan, I'm of the opinion that placing climbing lines or lanyard below the rigging block is a VERY bad idea. A running rope with 500lbs on the end is going to destroy your climbing lines. Or worse the block could cut the line in two.


----------



## OLD CHIPMONK (Jan 14, 2009)

Good looking job . Are the pines sappy in N.C. this time of year? Again ugly Pine but you did O.K.


----------



## Col2y (Jan 14, 2009)

Ted-RI said:


> Treemandan, I'm of the opinion that placing climbing lines or lanyard below the rigging block is a VERY bad idea. A running rope with 500lbs on the end is going to destroy your climbing lines. Or worse the block could cut the line in two.



yes but if its above when you blow a top out theres not alot from stopping you life lines from just popping off the top with all the shaking and jostling that happens, i see what your saying but i think that popping out free bird style is much more of a threat, Blocks and lines are rated to take it, (as long as they are used properly)

when i blow out a top i like to get my block as close to the pie as possible to minimise the drop and shock load, which doesnt leave me much room for my life lines. im not saying your wrong but in my opinion its much safer to be underneith but thats just my opinion, 

cheers


----------



## masiman (Jan 14, 2009)

Col2y said:


> yes but if its above when you blow a top out theres not alot from stopping you life lines from just popping off the top with all the shaking and jostling that happens, i see what your saying but i think that popping out free bird style is much more of a threat, Blocks and lines are rated to take it, (as long as they are used properly)
> 
> when i blow out a top i like to get my block as close to the pie as possible to minimise the drop and shock load, which doesnt leave me much room for my life lines. im not saying your wrong but in my opinion its much safer to be underneith but thats just my opinion,
> 
> cheers



If your worried about popping off the top you should take a wrap around with your lanyard to decrease the chance of it coming off the spar. I don't take the wrap all the time but I do on the cuts where I need more stability and/or insurance of staying attached to the tree. I hear what you are saying about coming off the top but I'd rather take that occasional risk (on a chunk that is going to give me a ride) vs. taking the risk of damaging lanyard and/or climbing line on every chunk. JMHO


----------



## Blakesmaster (Jan 14, 2009)

masiman said:


> If your worried about popping off the top you should take a wrap around with your lanyard to decrease the chance of it coming off the spar. I don't take the wrap all the time but I do on the cuts where I need more stability and/or insurance of staying attached to the tree. I hear what you are saying about coming off the top but I'd rather take that occasional risk (on a chunk that is going to give me a ride) vs. taking the risk of damaging lanyard and/or climbing line on every chunk. JMHO



Aren't we "supposed" to have 2 points of attachment to the tree at all times? Not that I do, I'm just sayin' we could compromise and do 1 over, 1 under than everyone is happy!


----------



## Blakesmaster (Jan 14, 2009)

/sarcasm


----------



## Dadatwins (Jan 14, 2009)

You know you need a helmet, so not going to beat that up, what is going on with this cut???

http://arboristsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=86825&stc=1&d=1231973220


----------



## Stihl Alive (Jan 14, 2009)

Dadatwins said:


> You know you need a helmet, so not going to beat that up, what is going on with this cut???
> 
> http://arboristsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=86825&stc=1&d=1231973220



I hoestly can't remember. I think it is after the bigger portion of the top was taken out. The pic with it hanging just above the shed. And i don't have a helmet (yet) but I did wear a hard hat when I went back up the stem today to take out the last leaning part before pulling them both over. 

And H**l YES the pines are sappy. oooooozing everywhere. Everything stuck to something else. My FIL is splitting all this pine up. He says if you dry it for a season or two you can burn it fine. I've never heard of anyone doing it.


----------



## JeffL (Jan 14, 2009)

Dadatwins said:


> You know you need a helmet, so not going to beat that up, what is going on with this cut???
> 
> http://arboristsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=86825&stc=1&d=1231973220



Looks like no undercuts/notches, and a ton of rippers and peeled bark.


----------



## Col2y (Jan 14, 2009)

masiman said:


> If your worried about popping off the top you should take a wrap around with your lanyard to decrease the chance of it coming off the spar. I don't take the wrap all the time but I do on the cuts where I need more stability and/or insurance of staying attached to the tree. I hear what you are saying about coming off the top but I'd rather take that occasional risk (on a chunk that is going to give me a ride) vs. taking the risk of damaging lanyard and/or climbing line on every chunk. JMHO



each to their own but id rather stay below, even with a wrap if the movment causes you to put slack on your buckstrap then that wrap doesnt to anything, 

the easy solution is just have you buck and or climbing line below were the block is going to pinch against the spar, or use a friction saver to choke off... below the block 

each side has its arguments but ive never damaged eiter by putting them below the block, and even still id rather sacrifice 10 feet of rope then chance losing my only conection to the spar


----------



## fishercat (Jan 14, 2009)

*you should do as you wish.*



Ted-RI said:


> Fishercat, you should wear a helmet. If not for yourself do it for the people who love you. It only takes a little bit to do big damage to your brain.
> Treemandan, I'm of the opinion that placing climbing lines or lanyard below the rigging block is a VERY bad idea. A running rope with 500lbs on the end is going to destroy your climbing lines. Or worse the block could cut the line in two.



and let me do as i wish.i wish not to wear one but respect your choice to do the opposite.whatever works for you.

this isn't Canada.i choose not to wear a helmet in the tree or a seat belt in a car.


----------



## Col2y (Jan 14, 2009)

fishercat said:


> and let me do as i wish.i wish not to wear one but respect your choice to do the opposite.whatever works for you.
> 
> this isn't Canada.i choose not to wear a helmet in the tree or a seat belt in a car.



ha, mate i respect your choice, crazy as it is but our tree;s arnt any harder then yours, getting smacked with an american tree is just as bad as getting smacked with a canadian tree, this is only speculation being as ive only been clocked with canadian wood but im fairly confident in this statement.


----------



## masiman (Jan 14, 2009)

Col2y said:


> each to their own but id rather stay below, even with a wrap if the movment causes you to put slack on your buckstrap then that wrap doesnt to anything,
> 
> the easy solution is just have you buck and or climbing line below were the block is going to pinch against the spar, or use a friction saver to choke off... below the block
> 
> each side has its arguments but ive never damaged eiter by putting them below the block, and even still id rather sacrifice 10 feet of rope then chance losing my only conection to the spar



I agree with ya, to each their own.

My thought was that there seems to be a different risk of losing your connection to the spar if the block and bull line end up cutting your lanyard(s). It seemed to me that the lanyard is open to damage on every drop if it is below. On the other hand, it will only pop off on bigger rides.

One time I had a chunk that would not run (groundie mistake) and it just stopped and swung around the tree. If I had been below the block, I would have been snagged up in the line and maybe injured. Since I was above it, I had mobility to get my feet and legs from between the rope and tree.


----------



## Col2y (Jan 14, 2009)

masiman said:


> I agree with ya, to each their own.
> 
> My thought was that there seems to be a different risk of losing your connection to the spar if the block and bull line end up cutting your lanyard(s). It seemed to me that the lanyard is open to damage on every drop if it is below. On the other hand, it will only pop off on bigger rides.
> 
> One time I had a chunk that would not run (groundie mistake) and it just stopped and swung around the tree. If I had been below the block, I would have been snagged up in the line and maybe injured. Since I was above it, I had mobility to get my feet and legs from between the rope and tree.



ok i see what your saying about the block pinching like in the first example but if you have your line below the block like the second example it wont touch your lines, and it will hold the bull line out enough that it wont burn through your life lines. i personaly think it is the best of the three options i use it all the time, keeping in mind im not a new climber, i can honestly say that ive never harmed either a buckstrap or a climbing line


----------



## woodchux (Jan 14, 2009)

You guys tying in below the block are crazy... The edge of the block can cut into the lanyard if you drop a big chunk and it jerks to a stop.

If you're worried about your lines going over the top of the spar , just cinch your lifeline around the trunk.


----------



## Slvrmple72 (Jan 15, 2009)

KEEP YOUR LINES OUT OF AND ABOVE THE RIGGING!!!!

If you cannot tie in at a suitable point adjacent to the limb/spare you are working on, say another part of the tree then you need to tie in above your block and rigging line. If the rigging line fails it can snag your line and pull you out of the tree. If your block anchor fails it can snag your line and pull you out of the tree. The friction of the rigging line with a lot of weight on it can cut through your line ( just one more reason for that secondary attachment! )and send you plummeting out of the tree. I have seen the climbing line sucked into the rigging, jammened into the pulley/block with a big chunk hanging and swinging ( climber swinging and swearing! ) I can hear some of you whining now: " What about my anchor coming off the top of the cut spar when its bouncing me around!?" Wrap your anchor, lean back and lock in, hell you can even cut a notch to set your line into if you cannot set up at a suitable part of the tree( branch union, swell, etc )

AND MAKE SURE YOU HAVE EVALUATED THE SPAR FOR DEFECTS/WEAK POINTS BEFORE YOU START DROPPING THE TOP!!! Nothing worse than letting the top rip just to have it fail the spar at a point below you!!!


----------



## Col2y (Jan 15, 2009)

Slvrmple72 said:


> KEEP YOUR LINES OUT OF AND ABOVE THE RIGGING!!!!
> 
> If you cannot tie in at a suitable point adjacent to the limb/spare you are working on, say another part of the tree then you need to tie in above your block and rigging line. If the rigging line fails it can snag your line and pull you out of the tree. If your block anchor fails it can snag your line and pull you out of the tree. The friction of the rigging line with a lot of weight on it can cut through your line ( just one more reason for that secondary attachment! )and send you plummeting out of the tree. I have seen the climbing line sucked into the rigging, jammened into the pulley/block with a big chunk hanging and swinging ( climber swinging and swearing! ) I can hear some of you whining now: " What about my anchor coming off the top of the cut spar when its bouncing me around!?" Wrap your anchor, lean back and lock in, hell you can even cut a notch to set your line into if you cannot set up at a suitable part of the tree( branch union, swell, etc )
> 
> AND MAKE SURE YOU HAVE EVALUATED THE SPAR FOR DEFECTS/WEAK POINTS BEFORE YOU START DROPPING THE TOP!!! Nothing worse than letting the top rip just to have it fail the spar at a point below you!!!



in order for it to get sucked in there would have to be slack in the loop somewhere and if theres slack in it underneith then there could be slack when you lanyards on top of the block as well and as i staited before if thers slack in your loop, taking a wrap around the top of the spare isnt going to do anything, keep your rop and your blocks apart and they wont fight each other 

and just to clarify in all these situations im using double tie in points most of the time with a friction saver to choke off my climbing line,


----------



## squad143 (Jan 15, 2009)

Boy have we derailed the title of this thread, but I feel this is (where to out your rigging/lanyards) is important. -This argument has been going on for ages, here's my extra 2 cents:

For you guys that like to tie in under the rigging, do you ever worry about your sling slipping off the top? -Of course not, it's wrapped tightly around the spar and there is a load on it. If you do the same with your climbing line and you won't have a problem.

I tie in just above my sling. My lanyard just above the sling (double wrapped if I'm really concerned) and my climbing line above my lanyard. About 2" above my climbing line is my cut. 

Tie your climbing line with a bowline on a bight (use a Yosemite tie off on the bowline) and then attach your climbing line via a prussik/swabish hitch to the centre ring on your harness. Lean back, cinching up the bowline on a bight and your good to go.

The advantage to the above system is that after your cut is complete and the block is on the ground, you can leave the bowline in place, lower yourself down to the next cut level (on your climbing line). You now have a high tie in point, making it easier to move around the spar, making your notch, tying your sling, etc. This is especially useful on large dia. trees. 

Now before you tie your rigging line and make your cut, lower your bowline on a bight to a couple of inches below your next cut. (Lowering is made a lot easier if you left 3 to 4 feet of tail on the bowline to release the bowline from below). Tie your rigging line and make your next cut. (Hint: Run the extra length of tail from the bowline through a carabiner on your saddle which will keep it out of the way).



BTW, here is a pic. (not mine) of a Yosemite tie off:


----------



## SWAMPY036 (Jan 17, 2009)

What does on a piece this size I should have put a split tail and sliding knot mean? Is the 1500 + lb piece pic#5


----------



## woodchux (Jan 17, 2009)

SWAMPY036 said:


> What does on a piece this size I should have put a split tail and sliding knot mean? Is the 1500 + lb piece pic#5



He's probably talking about a spiderleg to balance the piece.


----------



## TreeTopKid (Jan 17, 2009)

woodchux said:


> He's probably talking about a spiderleg to balance the piece.



I always have a piece of extra line attached to my rigging line. It is invaluable.


----------



## treemandan (Jan 17, 2009)

Ted-RI said:


> Fishercat, you should wear a helmet. If not for yourself do it for the people who love you. It only takes a little bit to do big damage to your brain.
> Treemandan, I'm of the opinion that placing climbing lines or lanyard below the rigging block is a VERY bad idea. A running rope with 500lbs on the end is going to destroy your climbing lines. Or worse the block could cut the line in two.



You place the ropes between the block and the hitch wrapped around the tree. 






The orange strap would be your lifeline.


----------



## treemandan (Jan 17, 2009)

Col2y said:


> ok i see what your saying about the block pinching like in the first example but if you have your line below the block like the second example it wont touch your lines, and it will hold the bull line out enough that it wont burn through your life lines. i personaly think it is the best of the three options i use it all the time, keeping in mind im not a new climber, i can honestly say that ive never harmed either a buckstrap or a climbing line



well if you want to take advice from cartoon man go ahead, the picture does not show all of the places to set your rope.


----------



## treemandan (Jan 17, 2009)

I also tend to stay away from pulleys with thin side plates


----------



## woodchux (Jan 17, 2009)

What happens if the pulley and sling get pulled down the spar?


----------



## treemandan (Jan 18, 2009)

woodchux said:


> What happens if the pulley and sling get pulled down the spar?



What happens? I guess what would happen is that I would suddenly realize I didn't set the pulley up properly. Its not going to slide down the trunk.


----------



## pdqdl (Jan 19, 2009)

RedlineIt said:


> Two things:
> 
> Hearing damage is progressive and unreversable. It will be nice to hear the oohs and aahs of your grandchildren when they see these photos. Do yourself a favour and muff-up or plug-up and develop a system of hand signals with your groundies.
> 
> ...



:agree2: 

I was thinking the same thing (hugging the tree), but I was waiting for someone else to see it too. 

As far as the comments on hearing, that is EXACTLY what I tell my guys when they tell me they don't need hearing protection.


----------

