# Milling for a TimberFrame - advice for a rookie



## BushWhack (Sep 6, 2008)

Hey folks,

Here's my situation:

Thinkin of building a roughly 20' x 30' timberframe and using some of the timbers off our property. Theres about a dozen or so nice straight tamaracks and another 30-40 nice black spruce, all about 20-26" in diameter.

Was thinkin of using the Tamaracks for posts and beams as I've heard lots about their strenght, and the spruce for joists/supports and the like.

I've never milled before. No experience, though lotsa experience with tree cutting, chainsaws, etc. I only have weekends on which I can work, as this is a cottage property 2 hrs from my home. Not a lotta $$ right now, young children, mortgage in town yada yada yada. So, rather than buy lumber was thinkin I'd drop $1000 on a saw/mill setup and do it myself. And yes, it would be myself, my 1-yr old has a ways to go b4 he gets recruited.

The question is how much time would it take to get the amount of lumber I need via milling?? Could I get proficient at it fairly quickly?? I was originally thinkin of cutting the trees and then get a sawyer with a portable bandsaw mill to come in and mill but the trees are all over the property and they'd need to be milled where they fell. 

I love the idea of using my own trees, but if its gonna take forever I'm wondering if I might not just be further ahead buying them from the local lumberyard. I still have to build the house after all!

Any ideas on this? Anyone done something similar?? Or am I getting in over my head 

BTW, this site rocks. Extremely informative...

thx,
Steve


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## Sawyer Rob (Sep 6, 2008)

> I was originally thinkin of cutting the trees and then get a sawyer with a portable bandsaw mill to come in and mill but the trees are all over the property and they'd need to be milled where they fell.



The house isn't going to be "all over the property", you will have to move them anyway... Just saw out the logs, move them to the site, and have a guy come in and mill them.

You won't get much done yourself with 1K to spend, and it does take a learning curve and a lot of time to do it with a CSM!

Save your strength and stress for the rest of the house.

Rob


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## testlight (Sep 6, 2008)

Yeah I did the Alaska saw mill thing. Never again. Its expensive, slow and with a 3/8 chain you loose too much in the cut. Try to find someone with a Lucas mill or simular to do the job for you. Sell some wood as lumber, timbers or firewood if you want to try to offset costs.


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## excess650 (Sep 6, 2008)

If you already have a BIG chainsaw(at least 70cc), the cost of an Alaskan mill isn't too bad. Click on the Bailey's link above and check them out. You'll lose 6" of bar length because of the mill and how it clamps, but it is portable, and capable of milling the trees where they fall. You will still need a way to move the beams or boards, and beams are lighter than logs, but still heavy.

Once you get the knack of setting up, subsequent cuts are quicker, but still relatively slow for long, wide boards or beams. A log will yield a square beam 70% of its diameter.

I used aluminum angle for supporting straight 2x4s as my guide. Box tubing will also work, and Granberg makes and sells their own rails, but adds expense. Some guys use sections of aluminum ladder.

There are other, less expensive options like the Haddon Lumber Maker, Beam Machine, and clones that simply clamp or bolt onto the bar, but I can't confirm how well they work. These will work with a smaller saw, and should cut quicker with the bar angled cutting "noodles" versus perpendicular with the grain as in milling. These use a 2x4 or 2x6 as a guide.

My first attempt with an Alaskan mill resulted in a 10.5"x10.5"x9'9" hemlock beam that is straight and square. It was for a friend who also wants to build a timber frame, and is drying in his garage.


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## Rookie1 (Sep 6, 2008)

Just had to say Hi cause your thread has my handle in it.


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## Mad Professor (Sep 6, 2008)

Use straight knot frees tree and avoid leaners with stress in the wood. Box the heart of the log to make beams (on BOTH ends). Use the best logs for the horizontal beams/plates, the posts can be lower grade. 

I saw out the outer portion of the log for grade or framing lumber depending on what type of wood I'm cutting.

Besides a mill you'll need a way to move the logs, unless you go from tree to tree, but that gets old real soon.


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## BushWhack (Sep 6, 2008)

I'm feelin like I should get someone in to do it again. The problem is that I dont really have a good way to get all these trees to a central spot. Was originally thinkin if I milled where the tree fell (CSM), I could then move the milled lumber easily to my site (which is way up on a hill). I dont have a quad so not sure how I'm going to get 10-16' foot wet logs out of the bush. 

Maybe I could cut the trees, then rent a quad and pull em out to the site and get someone in? How have others done this?? Want minimal impact on the land as well. Dont wanna build roads etc. The site is remote so I need to do everything by hand by myself mostly with the help of friends ...


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## testlight (Sep 6, 2008)

Well, I have no practical advice on this one, but just to get the creative juices flowing, you can use: Horses (don't laugh too hard), wenches (powered by hand, electric, or gas), or something with 4X4. How far do you have to move your timbers? If it isn't very far you could use poles and such to pull the timbers on.


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## Mad Professor (Sep 6, 2008)

I move all my logs with a 1940 Ford 9N tractor, but I don't have steep hills to deal with or wet/swampy land. Paid $1000 for it 20 years ago, best $1000 I ever spent. I also have HD chains, some peavys/cant hooks to help move things.


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## Mike Van (Sep 6, 2008)

My 2 cents is for you to go in a different direction - With no equipment & no experience, only weekends, 2 hours from home - Your're looking at years to do this project.


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## BushWhack (Sep 6, 2008)

Alright, points well taken ...

Think I'll get the trees that are close, maybe 12 of them, cut em and get buddy with truck/chains to move them the short distance to our cottage driveway. Then get sawyer into mill. 

Which brings up the next question - how many posts/beams might I get out of a dozen 20" diameter, 60' high straight trees? And how long for a pro sawyer to mill this and at what cost? Would it be worth it ??! I'll simply buy the rest. 

Then I just need to worry about getting it all up to the cabin site - through the woods, uphill 200 meters ... but at least she'll be chopped up...

BTW, there's already a cottage to live in there while I'm doing this project so I can kinda take my time a bit I guess. Its been a dream of mine to build my own digs. 

thx for advice guys,

S


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## mpapuga (Sep 6, 2008)

If you have the time and the ambition, then go for it. It will be very rewarding for you. Your young family will enjoy your stories and handywork for years if it's done right. Enjoy the project, it sounds like you want to do it.

Mark


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## peterrum (Sep 7, 2008)

I see that you want to have little impact on your land. Have you thought about hiring a horse logger to move your logs out for you before you mill them. Small footprint and your kids would love it. Good luck with your project.


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## woodshop (Sep 7, 2008)

mpapuga said:


> If you have the time and the ambition, then go for it. It will be very rewarding for you. Your young family will enjoy your stories and handywork for years if it's done right. Enjoy the project, it sounds like you want to do it.
> 
> Mark



This echoes my thoughts if I were in your position. Assuming you have the time and patience, there are ways to mill beams right where the tree fell (csm, handheld bandsaw like a Ripsaw) and also ways to move a 6x6 or 8x8 timber beam by hand (winches/pulley, ATV etc). Truly portable milling where you can carry the mill to the tree could be as cheap as a used big bore saw on a $200 chain saw mill... or couple thousand invested in a Ripsaw. For that same price or little more (but with less portability) invest in a stationary chainsaw mill like a Logosol, or if you're handy, build one like Imbeachy and some others here have. Point being, there are ways to get things done if you are motivated and are willing to think outside that conventional box. As Mark says above, think of the rewards for years (generations?) ahead assuming you build something that will last that long. I can think of many other ways to spend my time and money that would NOT be as productive or rewarding in the long run. If I were your age and situation, I'd find ways to get it done even if it took years.


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## MJR (Sep 7, 2008)

Just an idea, look into vertical log cabins. I am thinking of making a little one as a shoting house next spring. Good luck to you and your family.


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## Backwoods (Sep 7, 2008)

I think you are on the right track. Take the closest trees and have a portable sawmill come in and mill them. Get someone with a larger out fit that can handle the bigger jobs on a short timeframe, one weekend. Then you will have some trading material when you knock on the neighbor’s door looking for a small cat for a weekend. Surely someone near by will have a small cat or tractor. Now you can pull all the logs up onto the landing. Trim deck and sort them, make a full cut-list and have the sawyer back. Now you are ready to build. All this could be done in a couple of months, weekends only. 

You sound like my typical customer: You have some land with trees that you have been planing a project for years and now it is time to start. They normally have me back on a regular basis and you never know what their next project will be. Some are rather creative in their projects as well.

Good luck and hope to see more of this project.


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## BushWhack (Sep 8, 2008)

thx for the encouragement guys. gonna be a big project. Hopefully still got a wife and no alcohol problem a few years out 

Figure I got the land & wood already, typically the biggest expenses/obstacles for those who want to build their own, and I'm in no hurry. If I get stuck on something, I'll contract it out...figure I'm ahead anyways ...

Thinkin as well, we might rent out our existing cottage to help offset building costs a bit (we're in the Mont Tremblant region of Quebec)...

I'm still a year or 2 away from starting, just want to take this time to work out as many of the angles/obstacles as I can b4 i begin. 

I was thinkin when I started this thread, I'd mill my own lumber via CSM but I think I'm gonna leave it for a pro. My initial plan was to try and do absolutely everything on my own, no help, no footprint on the land, and as little 'machinery' as possible - alas, dont think this its realistic. Think a mix of our own lumber for the posts/beams and purchasing the rest may be the way. I still definitley wanna be able to sit back in my cabin when I'm old with a Scotch and admire my beams, knowing from which tree each one came ....

And yeah, I'll be around ... given my situation, not sure I'd be albe to do this project without these forums. 

cheers guys,
S


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## testlight (Sep 10, 2008)

If you still want to do the low impact no machinery thing, maybe you should look into cordwood construction. opcorn: 
Its cheap and easy, you could gather up the wood by hand, or with a very small piece of equipment and a little trailer.


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## excess650 (Sep 10, 2008)

BushWhack said:


> thx for the encouragement guys. gonna be a big project. Hopefully still got a wife and no alcohol problem a few years out
> 
> Figure I got the land & wood already, typically the biggest expenses/obstacles for those who want to build their own, and I'm in no hurry. If I get stuck on something, I'll contract it out...figure I'm ahead anyways ...
> 
> ...



If you're a year or two out, that would give you time to cut, mill, and dry the beams and lumber prior to construction. The simplest, least expensive chainsaw mills clamp to your chainsaw bar and use a 2x4 or 2x6 as a guide. The next step is the Alaskan mill which requires a larger chainsaw, but will yield a flat and square beam or board if you're careful.

It sounds like your biggest problems are in moving the lumber, and fear of failure. You CAN cut the lumber with minimal equipment. It just takes some time and thought. Moving the beams and boards will take some doing, but you'll figure that out. Do you have a snowmobile? If so, you could move the lumber after the ground is frozen and snow covered, and would leave almost no footprint. 

You can't succeed if you don't try.


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## EPA (Sep 14, 2008)

Well if I was looking at this project I would take a hard look at the Norwood lumber lite 24 mill even if you planned to sell it after the project is done the time and effort saved would pay for it //// EPA


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## MJR (Sep 14, 2008)

As a owner of a LL24 there are many very good small band mills out there. Your biggest problem seems to be moving the logs. A LL24 is not made to be moved often (to the logs). I remember back when someone posted here a wonderful home he built with a CSM. A ripsaw would seem better than a LL24. My 2 cent. The best of luck.


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## irishcountry (Sep 15, 2008)

Just stumbled onto noracreek.com says one of the guys used a chainsaw mill to mill all the beams for a timberframe structure would seem like alot of work though. I would like to make some beams too but it seems the granberg mini-mill would be easier to use instead of trying to get a boxed heart beams with a regular alaskan type mill I would like to see some pics of that (using a reg. alaskan type to make box heartwood beams) or hear some pointers that may make it easy if anyone has any please post em'. The website above might not have tons of how to but might give some inspiration it also show a little cordwood construction. Wouldn't mind a little timberframe cordwood sauna (woodfired) especially if this winter is like the last!! Thanks irishcountry


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## woodshop (Sep 15, 2008)

MJR said:


> As a owner of a LL24 there are many very good small band mills out there. Your biggest problem seems to be moving the logs. A LL24 is not made to be moved often (to the logs). I remember back when someone posted here a wonderful home he built with a CSM. A ripsaw would seem better than a LL24. My 2 cent. The best of luck.



If you're only talking portability, taking the mill right to the log, the Ripsaw is hard to beat. Keep in mind though, that it was never designed for production work. Compared to an LL24, it's much slower, takes a lot more calories to mill that lumber and only has a 14" wide capacity. On a very good day you might get 500 bd ft of lumber milled with the Ripsaw. You can do that on most larger stationary bandmills much quicker than that and a lot easier on your back. It's really one of those apples and oranges. That said... if you have the TIME and stamina, you can walk into the woods with just a csm, a Ripsaw and some block and tackle to move/lift timbers, and turn a stand of trees into a full blown couple story cabin. I'm only 55, I might just do that some day.


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## irishcountry (Sep 15, 2008)

thats the spirit! I would love to do the same mill all my own timbers and build SOMETHING! I have a very meager pile in my garage after the summer and I love timberframe stuff I have even thought about building my daughter a small playhouse just to get some practice in with some timberframe joints but I better wait til I have some beams to work with that why i would like to see if someone has a good way to make beams with a reg. style mill I will probrobly get a mini-mill someday just for making beams, well if you do start a cabin keep us informed!!


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## BushWhack (Sep 17, 2008)

thx guys. My biggest problem is definitely moving the timbers around without machinery, marking the land etc. , no doubt. 

As i mentioned, I have access to about 10-12 good sized trees that currently stand around a roughly 1 acre clearing where our cottage is. So, I could cut them and I think (?) I might be able to get enough logs to supply at least the posts and beams for the main level of a roughly 20x24 ft cabin. Could then go to the local lumber mill and get the rest so as to stick build around this frame. 

A question for you millers ...probly a stupid one ... but I guess it would be a real pain to have the sawyer move his mill to each tree where I felled it into the clearing, eh? Assuming a bandmill (no CSM) so as to get this job done quick. Just how portable is a portable band mill? Guess I should 'cut and roll' to a central spot ??

Which brings up another question, am I that much further ahead $$ wise (and energy) doing this then just buying the posts/beams from the mill as well? Or could I get a lot of 'sticks' out of these 10-12 trees in addtion to posts/beams so as to make it worthwhile?? 

I'll take a few pics of the property and some trees when I go up there next weekend. Maybe get some opinions on these trees as to whether they would be good candidates for beams/posts to begin with and what my best 'approach' might be ...

Oh, and in case i didn't mention b4, if any of you (and your mills) are travelling through the Laurentians area, stuck for a place ... I'll set ya up 

Steve


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## woodshop (Sep 17, 2008)

BushWhack said:


> ...Which brings up another question, am I that much further ahead $$ wise (and energy) doing this then just buying the posts/beams from the mill as well? Or could I get a lot of 'sticks' out of these 10-12 trees in addtion to posts/beams so as to make it worthwhile??



There is really no way of answering this unless we lived up near your area and thus knew local prices for lumber etc. Milled timber prices vary all over the place depending on supply and demand in your particular area. Even in my area here in Eastern PA, driving couple hours out into the western more rural areas of PA you can get lumber for half what you would pay in the Philadelphia suburbs. So whether if pays to do it yourself from your own timbers or buy it depends on lots of things, not the least of which is how much your time is worth.


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## MJR (Sep 17, 2008)

When I built my little hunting camp last summer I used my Suburban to drag the logs to the milling/building site. You may be under thinking moving the logs. Yes, they can be heavy but they can be moved many ways. Start a thread on moving logs or search here and you will be surprised. Keep in mind the cost of gas driving two hours each way. My farm is 1.5 hours from my house and my free logs got expensive fast. Skidding logs in air conditioning truck was a great experience for me, watching the kids helping with the build, the sounds of the coyotes hunting while watching the camp fire, and the smells of the wife's venison stew cooking on a cold Nov. day, are something I will take to the grave. All I can say is this project is something you and your family can do if you want to. The best of luck.


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## BushWhack (Sep 17, 2008)

mjr, great pt about gas, hadn't thought too much bout that. As for costs for lumber, in the city here for eg. I priced out some spruce which is what I'd be using to mill my own with. Prices are 

2x12 (16') = $17. 
2x10 (16') = $14
2x8 (16') = $10.60
2x6 (12') = $5.50
2x4 (10') = $3. 

For PT: 

6x6 (16') = $44.50
4x4 (16') = $21 

Dont know how it compares at all, but it doesn't seem too bad.

Hmmm, maybe I could get around the coummutes by building my TF in the city, in the backyard kinda thing, and then rent a Uhaul and transport all the pieces up to the site?? Doable ?? Would above prices make viable ??


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## MJR (Sep 18, 2008)

Sure, the more work you can do at your house will save money. You will be surprised what you can get done a couple hours after work each night. Move equipment for a couple of weekends and you will know what I mean. If you have the room at your house get pricing on a load of logs. There is a expensive way, a little less expensive way, and no cheap way to do a project like this. Good luck. Also, off topic - keep the wife happy with the little ones. They are a lot of work at that age and if you are gone every weekend you will not be having any more....


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## Backwoods (Sep 19, 2008)

I use a half ton 4x4 truck and a chain to move logs up to 24”x 20’. A two-wheel drive will move smaller logs as well. 
Even if you move the mill to each tree, you will still need to skid all but one log to the mill. It is best to find good milling sites where you can group the logs together. I charge a $25 fee for each time I move the mill. 
10-12 trees 18” dbh 60’-80’ tall will yield a few thousand board feet.

If your trees are nice and straight with small knots, it would be well worth the milling cost. If your trees are kinda ugly looking then you may be better off buying the lumber. The better the tree the better the lumber.


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## infomet (Sep 27, 2008)

I find hiring a Woodmizer or similar mill to be a great deal. You don't have time or experience with milling. Talk to some millers who come out and get pricing. I have done at least 30,000BF, some at $35/hr and some at about $0.20/BF. Cutting big timber, you will roar through the BF, so the hourly is likely a better deal. BTW, you may as well do your 1X boards for siding, etc. 

One thing to keep in mind is that OSB is cheaper than making 1X these days, and saves a lot of time!

Vertical board and batten is nice, but I have done all lap siding. My sawyer has a little feeder that lies on the bed of the mill and drives the boards past the blade, tilted at an angle to make the bevel. It's time consuming to hang, but very fast to make. I cut 1 1/8" thick, then slice to get two boards. Then I dip it in a long tank made of 2X10s containing stain. Takes a lot of stain, but treats both sides of the wood.

See if you can borrow a tractor with a little boom on the three point hitch. That will skid 16' logs. Of course an arch is great, if you don't have to buy it. Some sawyers have them.

BTW, I built my house this way, with a framer and helper.


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