# My aux oiler addition



## Andrew96 (Dec 18, 2009)

After Milling some dry wood up, I needed an oiler. I went with an oiler that puts oil right in the groove rather than some of the other options. Hopefully the next guy who makes one up might learn something from my photos. Of course, I wouldn't post them here if I wasn't prepared for comments.
Here is my completed mill (so far), 30" of cut from a 36" bar. Fixed 1/8" graduations for cutting depth by relocating the pins. My handle in it's final location. It's a "bolt through the bar" type mill.






My new oiler addition. Bolts to the tip so I can remove the mill for sharpening and not goof with the oiler. The top unscrews so I can fill it up. The vent line runs down into the post. Clear so I can see the level. I'll only fill it up 1/2 way. I went with a design of fixed height so I could set a flow without having the vessel at different heights all the time. Also..it had to be robust enough that I could throw it around on the ground and not brake anything. The mill uprights protect the vessel when it's laying on it's side. 







The vessel feeds a 1/4" clear line down to a needle valve and mount I fabricated. There is an O ring under that lock nut. A pin on the needle so I can keep track of how far to open it. 






Here you can see the feed hole, and the locating pin hole (to keep things from rotating). It's a max 0.100" hole in the needle valve, 1/8" hole in the bar but only a 0.063" hole into the bar groove...it's an 063" bar. I've drilled both sides of the bar so when I flip it, I still have an oiler. 
My flow tests ranged from 14ml/min with a full vessel down to 10ml/min at the bottom with my needle open 1 turn. I can get more flow but the flow test on the bench was a little messy to play again. 






Here you can see how I'm going to start and stop the flow between cuts using my small needle valve close to the chain. I'll finish my cut, then pull the idling saw off my log. Sit it down on the mill end (like the photo). I let it idle in this position after a cut. In this position though, the oil will only flow a little bit out of the hose down to the bar. Once the saw is shut off, I'll be able to turn the needle valve off, gas and oil the assembly in another orientation. Of course, it's only been tested in the shop but that's the concept.


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## BobL (Dec 18, 2009)

Nice work andrew. 

It will be interesting to see how much vibe you get on the structure itself when it's on a running mill.

With regards flow rate, if it does not get high enough (I reckon you need about 20 ml/min) you can use canola or a mix of canola and regular oil. Although I understand canola can gum up in your colder climes.

I also like your wheels!


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## Andrew96 (Dec 18, 2009)

Thanks bobL. I read your target flow rates but figured I didn't need to go that high with such a short bar. It's only 36" you know. I'm still restricting the flow with the needle valve so I should be able to get more flow when it's limited by the 063" hole only. Once I come up with a nicer way to measure the volume I'll run some other bench tests. I made a mess so called it quits. Lower viscosity would help at all temps. 
Both of my mills have wheels. I think it would be a pain to mill without them. I turned those myself from some flat aluminum plate I had. 

The structure seems stronger than I thought it would be. It's bolted quite close to the upright so the tip cannot flex. It needs a couple of good days to see if I'm happy though.


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## chuckwood (Dec 18, 2009)

*auxillary oiler*



Andrew96 said:


> Hopefully the next guy who makes one up might learn something from my photos.



I'm the next guy who is planning on making one up. I'm putting together a Granberg 36" Alaskan with a Stihl 075. I like making my own stuff and the oiler seems easy enough. I've been looking for other threads on homemade oilers and it seems I'm not using the search mode correctly, can't find anything much. One issue I'd like to see some threads about is in finding/building the oiler injector bolt that will be installed onto the bar next to the tip roller. I've seen only one advertised at Baileys, but they describe it as for a double ended bar. The rest seems fairly easy to construct from hardware store items. I'll probably not use a see-through oil tank, as the clear plastic hose should tell the user whether oil is flowing or not. 

I also have a situation with what oil to use. I've got lots of used oil stored up from tractor and truck maintenance that will have to be recyled some day. I'm thinking, why not use it. For example, there's 20 gallons of used tractor transmission/hydraulic oil, nice and clear, no dirt in it as far as I can tell, why not filter and use it? The oil crankcase oil is black and dirty, but I can filter the dirt out of it, why not? I do know *not* to use oil crankcase oil in the saw's internal oiler. But for the auxillary?


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## Kicker_92 (Dec 18, 2009)

BobL said:


> With regards flow rate, if it does not get high enough (I reckon you need about 20 ml/min) you can use canola or a mix of canola and regular oil. Although I understand canola can gum up in your colder climes.



I was using 2/3 canola to 1/3 bar oil last weekend at -5°C (approx 20°F) with no issues.

The Canola was much more fluid than the meduim weight Stihl bar oil. I don't have an Aux oiler, and the oil gets basically flushed out every couple of weeks as I'm milling so Canola is a good cost savings.


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## demographic (Dec 18, 2009)

Now there's a man who races some vehicle I think, good idea on the lockwiring.


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## mtngun (Dec 18, 2009)

chuckwood said:


> One issue I'd like to see some threads about is in finding/building the oiler injector bolt that will be installed onto the bar next to the tip roller.


I recommend dripping onto the nose instead of into the bar groove. Much simpler and seems to work just as well.

The granberg "injector bolt" is just a bolt, 5/16" I believe, drilled lengthwise up to the head. Then another hole is drilled perpendicular to the bolt just above the head. It's prone to plugging up plus the bar grooves themselves plug up with sawdust/oil gunk. I got tired of unplugging the granberg "injector" system and switched to a dripper.



> I've got lots of used oil stored up from tractor and truck maintenance that will have to be recyled some day. I'm thinking, why not use it.


As Sarah Palin would say, "YOU BETCHA."  Used oil works fine for the aux oiler. 

Andrew, great job on your mill and oiler. Thanks for sharing.

I've never tried to measure the flow on the Granberg aux oiler, but it uses far less oil than the saw. I only refill the aux tank two or three times in a full day.


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## Brmorgan (Dec 18, 2009)

I had an old fella here tell me once that the carbon in used motor oil is abrasive and will lead to premature bar and chain wear. The logic SOUNDS good, but whether or not it'd actually make much of a difference I'm not sure. Still hasn't stopped me from using it on occasion if I need some in a pinch though!


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## chuckwood (Dec 18, 2009)

*used crankcase oil bar lubricant in aux oiler*



Brmorgan said:


> I had an old fella here tell me once that the carbon in used motor oil is abrasive and will lead to premature bar and chain wear. The logic SOUNDS good, but whether or not it'd actually make much of a difference I'm not sure. Still hasn't stopped me from using it on occasion if I need some in a pinch though!



My primary concern in using old motor oil would be the presence of metal and other types of grit in the oil, the stuff that will kill your saw's oil pump if you use it inside the saw. There, I believe it prematurely wears out any plastic and rubber parts. I'm not sure if the grit in crankcase oil would be enough to really cause any noticeable extra bar or chain wear, after all, the stuff is running in your car or truck right now, especially if you're close to an oil change. If used crankcase oil was bad enough to ruin a bar and chain, you'd think it would also ruin a motor. As for ordinary carbon/soot particles, I don't see how they could be abrasive, carbon, to the best of my knowledge, is rather soft. A crystalline form of carbon, graphite, is a very good dry lubricant.


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## chuckwood (Dec 18, 2009)

*dripping*



mtngun said:


> I recommend dripping onto the nose instead of into the bar groove. Much simpler and seems to work just as well.



Thanks! You've just solved a problem for me. I really wasn't looking forward to drilling in my chainsaw bar and hacking around with small bolts. When thinking about a drip setup, one wonders if the chain will get enough lube on the side underneath, opposite the oiler. I guess what I will do is watch my chain and turn up the flow rate on the lube until I see it reaching all parts of the chain.


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## BobL (Dec 18, 2009)

chuckwood said:


> My primary concern in using old motor oil would be the presence of metal and other types of grit in the oil, the stuff that will kill your saw's oil pump if you use it inside the saw. There, I believe it prematurely wears out any plastic and rubber parts. I'm not sure if the grit in crankcase oil would be enough to really cause any noticeable extra bar or chain wear, after all, the stuff is running in your car or truck right now, especially if you're close to an oil change. If used crankcase oil was bad enough to ruin a bar and chain, you'd think it would also ruin a motor.


 It will - try not changing your oil and see what happens. Don't forget engine oil goes through a filter before it it is delivered to the parts that need it. The soup drained from a car engine still has a lot of gunk in it and should be at least allowed to stand or better still filtered before use. Even dangling a magnet in it will help for magnetic stuff.



> As for ordinary carbon/soot particles, I don't see how they could be abrasive, carbon, to the best of my knowledge, is rather soft. A crystalline form of carbon, graphite, is a very good dry lubricant.


 And another form called diamond is the hardest stuff around. Soot is mix of a wide range of carbon most of which is abrasive and can score motor parts quite easily and is why saws are decarburized around the exhaust ports if they are run incorrectly.

The reality is it is possible to use used engine oil and the wear differential between new and used oil will not be noticed but for me the issue with used engine oil it is that it is full of carcinogens and heavy metals. I wouldn't go into the woods or my back garden and dump gallons of used oil on the ground so why do that via a saw?


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## Daninvan (Dec 18, 2009)

I've drilled a couple bars for the Granberg oiler bolts. I found that it was not difficult at all to drill the bars, I just clamped them on my drill press table, and used a punch to create a little divot to prevent the drill bit from skating around at the start. Afterwards, a small file removed any burrs quickly.

I will agree with the comment that the little orifice in the bolts is tough to keep clean. I have not yet found a convenient way to do so mid cut if need be. Maybe a thin but rigid wire jammed in from the top?

Dan


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## BobL (Dec 18, 2009)

Here is a thread about making an oil delivery bolt http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=49448

But since then I have changed to the drip method.
See mine at post #18 here, http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=77152&page=2

I agree with mtngun, it works just as effectively as the thru bolt method and makes the bar flipping task a bit quicker


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## mtngun (Dec 18, 2009)

Brmorgan said:


> I had an old fella here tell me once that the carbon in used motor oil is abrasive and will lead to premature bar and chain wear. The logic SOUNDS good, but whether or not it'd actually make much of a difference I'm not sure. Still hasn't stopped me from using it on occasion if I need some in a pinch though!


I haven't noticed any unusual bar wear -- in fact, I've yet to wear out a bar. Nor have I worn out an oil pump.

There is no filter in a manual transmission or in a differential. Lots of metal particles floating around in the oil, yet trannies and diffs last decades. But supposedly this same oil will not suffice for a fraction of a second on a chainsaw bar ?

I do let used oil settle in the oil pan, and then, when pouring it into the chainsaw jug, I discard the last bit in the pan, where the metal chips have settled. 

I _*guarantee*_ that your bar will last longer and your chain will stretch less when lubricated with used oil from an auxilary oiler, compared to no auxilary oiler.

We have to do something with used motor oil. Most people in my part of the world simply dump it, or throw it in the trash so that it eventually ends up in a landfill. It seems to me that putting used oil to a constructive use -- like in an auxilary bar oiler -- is a better than average way to deal with it and to conserve a limited resource.


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## BobL (Dec 19, 2009)

mtngun said:


> We have to do something with used motor oil. Most people in my part of the world simply dump it, or throw it in the trash so that it eventually ends up in a landfill. It seems to me that putting used oil to a constructive use -- like in an auxilary bar oiler -- is a better than average way to deal with it and to conserve a limited resource.



I agree it should be conserved and it can be recycled. Ultimately our grandkids will probably curse us for burning it when it's real value as a recyclable lube or chemical feed stock for plastics is realized.


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## Andrew96 (Dec 19, 2009)

Oil is oil. Oil for an engine is thin (viscosity) so it can get pumped through to the proper places, or splashed. As the important bits under extreme pressure are fed under oil pressure, it can take a lot of load. Higher load/shear type applications have much thicker oil (ring+pinion, transmission) that can cope with the shear and still protect the parts. They also use roller bearings, not soft bearings like on a conrod/crank. On a chain saw, with a splash lubricated system (not through the saw), running hard parts (chain, bar), we can use pretty much anything since we are not pumping it. Anything with the proper viscosity, that we could get in the area, would work. I cannot see any function reason why it wouldn't work. However,
Dumping used oil on the ground isn't good. Used oil is filled with poisonous crap. That's not good to get on your skin... so don't. Try doing that for a day playing in saw dust, I can't. I don't use it..not because it won't work...I cannot dump that on other people farms when cutting their trees.


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## Andrew96 (Dec 19, 2009)

chuckwood said:


> I'm the next guy who is planning on making one up.



Chuckwood, I made the oiler mount as part of the delivery system. I made the nipple, needle valve, body all from 1/4" bar stock on my lathe. It's all brazed together. The locknut is over an Oring for vibration. I wasn't happy with what I could find. I felt it would dump the oil into a better spot. If you don't have the ability to make something like that up, don't, search the many threads on other oilers, search thing like oil, aux oiler etc and follow BobLs posts....he links everything together which helps, and make up a drip type system. They are easier and many feel they work just as good as dumping oil into the groove. I don't like the fabricated vessel I have...but it will work for now until I find the one I want. I want a white power steering fluid tank from a car. I couldn't find one after a few attempts. This plumbing one is very high, holds more than I need it too. 

Even with the short bar I have, I had wear on my bar from 3 days of cutting up dry stuff without an oiler. Many of the hardcore guys have faster cutting times with an oiler running...so you need one. Make an easier type, fill it with anything oily you have (all the previous discussions on oil) and enjoy. 




demographic said:


> Now there's a man who races some vehicle I think, good idea on the lockwiring.



I've lockwired everything on this mill. In fact, I used Nylocks, locktite and lock wire (overkill I know). I'd rather drill some nuts and bolts out and wire them up than crawl around looking for a part that fell off...or check to see if they vibrated apart all the time. Yup...I race Motorcycles...when parts fall off...I'm not too far behind. IMO mills vibrate a lot. I'd rather have a beverage late one evening drilling and wiring, than say...watch TV. You should see my race bikes!


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## chuckwood (Dec 19, 2009)

*any problems with drip method?*



BobL said:


> But since then I have changed to the drip method.
> See mine at post #18 here, http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=77152&page=2
> 
> I agree with mtngun, it works just as effectively as the thru bolt method and makes the bar flipping task a bit quicker



Since it can't clog, and if it delivers oil just as effectively, then dripping should be the best way. However, in one post you say

" I am disappointed in the new oiler. The oiler delivery point is about is about 4/5 of the way around the nose and the chain seems to just flings most of the oil off. The chain definitely ran hotter than my direct bar groove delivery method."


I'll be building my rig then to deliver oil just past the nose. I'm curious as to how you solved the oil delivery problem on your setup. Did you increase the flow rate to the bar? You also mentioned the possibility of drilling a hole in the bar so the oil could drip directly into the bar groove. Thanks for posting, I'm getting lots of good ideas from your work.


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## chuckwood (Dec 19, 2009)

*used oil problems*



Andrew96 said:


> Dumping used oil on the ground isn't good. Used oil is filled with poisonous crap. That's not good to get on your skin... so don't. Try doing that for a day playing in saw dust, I can't. I don't use it..not because it won't work...I cannot dump that on other people farms when cutting their trees.



I guess I look at this differently, possibly because I'm a tightwad and I've got about at least 50 gallons of various types of used lubricants sitting around in storage, waiting to be hauled off for recycling, yet another chore waiting to be done. If used in milling, the oil will be absorbed in the massive amounts of sawdust generated by the milling process, it's not just being dumped raw onto the ground. My theory is that the oil will slowly decay along with the sawdust, or at least that's what I hope. My understanding is that oil is very slowly biodegradeable by soil bacteria, and will break down into other less toxic substances over time. As for getting it on skin, I'm planning on milling only in colder weather when I'm wearing long sleeves and gloves. I never just dump used oil directly onto the ground. 

Am I just kidding myself and being a bad steward of the earth's resources?


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## Andrew96 (Dec 19, 2009)

chuckwood said:


> Am I just kidding myself and being a bad steward of the earth's resources?



I think you have to look at each location before you slap yourself. I agree with everything you say but...not if you're cutting right beside a water supply or lake or something. Consider where you are...in town on a lawn? Hilltop in the bush? Right beside someone's bean field?


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## BobL (Dec 19, 2009)

chuckwood said:


> Since it can't clog, and if it delivers oil just as effectively, then dripping should be the best way. However, in one post you say
> 
> " I am disappointed in the new oiler. The oiler delivery point is about is about 4/5 of the way around the nose and the chain seems to just flings most of the oil off. The chain definitely ran hotter than my direct bar groove delivery method."



I ended up attributing this to two factors. 

One was, I must have got my bar oils mixed up. I use quality B&C oil in the saw and canola in the Aux Oiler (AO) but must have used canola in the saw and it was all coming off at the nose. As soon as I made sure I was using quality B&C oil in the saw this problem virtually went away. This also demonstrates that in hot milling conditions is not a good idea to use canola in the saw. 

The other minor problem was I had the AO delivery point up a bit too high and it was splashing onto the chain - I then moved the delivery tip down to make light contact with the chain. Being brass the tip was worn away in seconds so the oil now just wicks out direct onto the joint between the bar and chain. I also rotated the delivery slightly towards the powerhead, ie from about 2 o'clock to closer to 1 o'clock.

Because most AOs use gravity feed, the flow rate changes as the height/level/head of the oil changes. This effect can be minimised by using short fat AO reservoirs rather than a narrow tall narrow ones. Short fat reservoirs can also be placed lower down nearer the rails which reduce the amount of mass away from the centre of gravity of the mill. This also reduces vibe amplitude so they are flex less and are less likely to break over time.

To further control AO flow while milling I added an AO flow control lever to the mill that connects to the AO. This enables me to control the AO flow especially when milling a large slab so that any significant changes in oil head can be compensated for. My control lever is a 6 speed click style bicycle gear change lever. I typically start a cut on position 3 (1 is off) and about half way down the slab I might move to position 4 and then towards the end of the slab to 5. My way of knowing if I have enough oil flow is to watch for a small oil pool forming on the bar near the nose. 

When milling small - average size logs (ie <30") I use the same AO setting all the way through the log.

Too much oil means it will flood the chain and creates a forward spatter back onto the log like this.


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## mtngun (Dec 19, 2009)

chuckwood said:


> If used in milling, the oil will be absorbed in the massive amounts of sawdust generated by the milling process, it's not just being dumped raw onto the ground.


Darned right. And one way or the other, you are going to use some kind of lubricant, and a few drops are going to end up mixed in with the sawdust, whether it is used hydraulic oil or brand new B&C oil. Big deal.

Contrast that to the typical for-profit logging operation, with leaky old equipment that drips oil by the gallon. Not to mention loggers are the world's worst litterbugs, leaving a trail of oil jugs and beer cans. I frequently pick up logger litter while I am out in the woods.



> Am I just kidding myself and being a bad steward of the earth's resources?


You are conserving the earth's resources by utilizing old junk oil instead of importing new oil from the Middle East.

CSMing is a low impact way to harvest lumber. We typically only take deadwood. We don't bulldoze roads or set slash fires. We leave nothing behind but sawdust. CSMing is much, much more environmentally responsible than commercial logging. Hold your head up high and be proud that you are a CSMer .


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## BIG JAKE (Dec 19, 2009)

Some well thought out points there Mtngun. Somebody *itchin' about a little bar oil is just plain anal. Use just enough to do the job and it won't hurt anything. Personally, I'd rather buy new oil than screw with used oil based on my own personal experience. If I end up out of a job or tight for money I'll change my opinion out of necessity. Dad tried using used oil for a while and our bars didn't last very long. In the long run(oil was cheap in those days) it wasn't worth it. Today it's probably a different story. With good bar oil my bars seem to never wear out, but then I don't force anything either-just let it chew away at it's own pace. As far oil pumps go with used oil-I have replaced those. Cast aluminum machined housing with a steel pump rod in the middle, so all that metal in used oil is going to eat it(the aluminum)-it's not a comparable animal to hardened differential gears. An oil pump will run you around 70 bucks. So over the long haul you'll come out ahead moneywise using used oil these days-but I'd rather not deal with my saws leaking that crap all over the place while they are in storage because the oil pump is leaking by. If you don't believe me put a new oil pump on your leaking saw and see if it leaks then. http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=31559 If you have a way of filtering out all the metal it wouldn't be so bad but then again, used oil has alot of nasties in it:http://www.nature.nps.gov/hazardssafety/toxic/oilused.pdf

Personally, I doubt if there'd be any long term effects from breathing used oil mists while milling, but when you add that to all the other crap(carpet outgassing, air pollution, cleaning solutions, on and on-it adds up) your liver has to deal with who knows? It could be the straw that broke the camels back. Lot's of cancer these days. New oil is less hazardous


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## Andrew96 (Dec 20, 2009)

mtngun said:


> CSMing is a low impact way to harvest lumber. We typically only take deadwood. We don't bulldoze roads or set slash fires. We leave nothing behind but sawdust. CSMing is much, much more environmentally responsible than commercial logging. Hold your head up high and be proud that you are a CSMer .



When I'm cutting someones wind blown tree up on their front lawn...this is what I try to explain to them...so I can get asked back. I don't think that would happen if they saw me using black used motor oil in my equipment.


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## BobL (Dec 20, 2009)

It's not the oil in the used oil that is the problem, the heavy metals and carcinogens are also not that much of a risk to the operator. I agree with mtngum that the oil does break down eventually, but the carcinogenic components and heavy metals in used oil do not, and will find their way into water ways and rivers. It's more the principle that if everyone was allowed to dump their used oil in back blocks and back lots we'd eventually poison ourselves. The amount that CSM users would add is small but then again so does every individual that dumps that odd gallon or two every year, but together we make a bit of a mess.

Most people do not realize how closer we came to poisoning ourselves with lead in leaded gasoline in the 1970s. Lead poisoning lowers IQ and an ability to reason. Western society had reached a level of poisoning about half that of where the Romans had gone and they were totally potty by the time their empire crumbled.


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## lmbeachy (Dec 20, 2009)

[

Most people do not realize how closer we came to poisoning ourselves with lead in leaded gasoline in the 1970s. Lead poisoning lowers IQ and an ability to reason. Western society had reached a level of poisoning about half that of where the Romans had gone and they were totally potty by the time their empire crumbled.[/QUOTE]


What was the problem with the Romans, they didn't have leaded gas and all the other things that we blame for our problems.


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## Fallguy1960 (Dec 20, 2009)

The pipe they used in there water system was made of lead.


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## BobL (Dec 20, 2009)

Fallguy1960 said:


> The pipe they used in there water system was made of lead.



That was only a very small part of the story. The ROmans were massive miners of copper lead, silver and zinc. Their mines and smelters in Carthage in Spain were so large and uncontrolled so the lead pollution reached reached Greenland and Antarctica. The labs I work in at work detected Roman lead in Antarctic ice cores - we also detected Greek lead pollution.

The lead was mined for the silver but with all this lead left over they made lead pipe for water and lead vessels for storing food and wine. The Romans did not know that wine had to be stored away from air or it would turn into vinegar (acetic acid) so left over wine was either used as vinegar or thrown away. They noticed that wine vinegar that evaporated in lead containers produced a sweet tasting jelly (lead acetate!) which they ate for desert and added to baked goods since sugar from cane was unknown at the time. They then deliberately added lead carbonate to vingered wine to make this jelly. This consumes large amounts of wine which only rich people could afford so in a strange twist of fate it was the rich that went nutty first. Only rich people could also install lead plumbing. Lead compounds were used by rich women for make up and it was also used for medicinal purposes. When Nero fiddled while Rome burned the elite were well on the way to lead poisoning and as mad as hatters (their maddness was from mercury)


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## gemniii (Dec 20, 2009)

Andrew96 said:


> When I'm cutting someones wind blown tree up on their front lawn...this is what I try to explain to them...so I can get asked back. I don't think that would happen if they saw me using black used motor oil in my equipment.


What color is the 2-stroke oil you mix for your fuel?
Mine's almost black in the jug.
The pollutant difference between filtered used motor oil and regular (not greeny biodegradable or canola) oil has got to be very minor in the quantities being used.
/edit - if you were really being green you'd use a Ripsaw with a smaller more fuel efficient powerhead, or a portable bandsaw.


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## BobL (Dec 20, 2009)

gemniii said:


> The pollutant difference between filtered used motor oil and regular (not greeny biodegradable or canola) oil has got to be very minor in the quantities being used.



I have direct experience in measuring Cr and Pb in fresh and used oil and they are MUCH higher (>100x) in used oils. 

Do a search for "heavy metals in used oil" and you will get heaps of info.

EG: Even though they are selling something most of the info on this page is close to the truth
http://www.synlube.com/usedoil.htm
"One quart of used oil has enough heavy metals in it to pollute 250,000 gallons of drinking water."

The continuing sad story about used engine oil is that instead of being properly recycled, a lot of it is crudely distilled into heavy fuel oil without removing all the heavy metals, so they are still entering our environment and groundwater via the atmosphere. So, we went to a lot of trouble to get rid of lead from gas and now we are being contaminated by lead from fuel oil.


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## mtngun (Dec 21, 2009)

BobL, your concern for the environment is commendable. :agree2: You sound like you have some expertise with used oil and I seem to remember you mentioned in another thread that you do research for a university ? What exactly is your field, if I may ask ?

However, I stand by my statement that CSM milling (and for that matter, portable bandmilling) is a low impact way to harvest wood, compared to commercial logging practices, which tend to be sloppy and wasteful if not downright atrocious, at least as it is practiced in my country. 

Let's consider the economics of bar oil. I paid about $100 for my 36" milling bar. Despite employing used oil whenever it is available (about half the time), I still went through about 2 dozen gallons of store bought bar oil in the past year, at $6 - $8 a gallon, or about $160 for the year at current prices. Clearly there is no economic justification for a fancy bar oil that _*may*_ help a $100 bar and a $70 pump last slightly longer.

It's funny how much people worry about choosing the best oil for their pet machine. Machinists are the same way. I tell them I use -- gasp ! ! ! -- chainsaw bar oil to lubricate my machine ways, and they carry on like its the end of civilization.


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## BobL (Dec 21, 2009)

mtngun said:


> BobL, your concern for the environment is commendable. :agree2: You sound like you have some expertise with used oil and I seem to remember you mentioned in another thread that you do research for a university ? What exactly is your field, if I may ask ?



My training is in nuclear physics but most of my research is in trace metal analytical chemistry using isotopes. I have measured all sorts of stuff in all sorts of other stuff, from lead in petrol, to uranium in dust, to zinc in river water, to tellurium in nano-diamonds extracted from exotic bits of meteorites. I measured the concentration of Cr and lead in used engine oil as part of a Masters of Science. I was quite surprised how loaded the used oil was with heavy metals and thought someone had played a trick on me so I collected some more samples and remeasured them. 

I agree, CSM is generally overall low impact compared to a lot of other methods of timber recovery. I like my mate Hud's approach - cut down one and plant 5 more!


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## mtngun (Dec 21, 2009)

BobL said:


> My training is in nuclear physics but most of my research is in trace metal analytical chemistry using isotopes.


Ah..... that makes sense.

I spent most of my life working in "dirty" industries, and my current career has me working with molten lead every day. A day in the woods running a chainsaw mill seems pretty healthy by comparison.:biggrinbounce2:



> I like my mate Hud's approach - cut down one and plant 5 more!


:agree2:


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## BobL (Dec 21, 2009)

mtngun said:


> Ah..... that makes sense.
> 
> I spent most of my life working in "dirty" industries, and my current career has me working with molten lead every day. A day in the woods running a chainsaw mill seems pretty healthy by comparison.:biggrinbounce2:



It may sound odd but I am not that fussed by metallic lead, molten or otherwise or when it is in a fixed state. I'm more worried by it when it is in a bioavailable form. I live in an 90 year old house which is almost certainly smothered in leaded paint - now overpainted with plastic paint. I know the soil in the flower beds immediately alongside the house is contaminated with lead. We cannot raise chickens in our back garden and eat their eggs because so much dieldrin has been used in my area to treat for termite infestation that the soil needs another couple of decades to fully recover. AT this point one might well think about moving but nature is resilient if it's given a chance. We stopped using insecticides and poisons about 20 years ago and we have managed to attract a couple of native frogs to our water feature/pond and we also have small geckos living in the shed which are good signs that things are improving.


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## BobL (Dec 21, 2009)

mtngun said:


> A day in the woods running a chainsaw mill seems pretty healthy by comparison.



The most dangerous activity involving milling is still the car ride to where you will mill the log. Check out my milling risk assessment on the Milling 101 sticky.


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## Andrew96 (Dec 21, 2009)

gemniii said:


> What color is the 2-stroke oil you mix for your fuel?
> Mine's almost black in the jug.
> The pollutant difference between filtered used motor oil and regular (not greeny biodegradable or canola) oil has got to be very minor in the quantities being used.
> /edit - if you were really being green you'd use a Ripsaw with a smaller more fuel efficient powerhead, or a portable bandsaw.



Where I come from..calling me a greeny is fightin' words.:sword:....I didn't say I was a greeny...my motto is "It's not a sport if you don't burn fossil fuels". Tree huggers play with balls. The do give me trees to cut though. It makes them feel good. I can't expect them to give me more if I used black oil on their lawn. I use Stihl Ultra and it's slightly tinted.


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## Andrew96 (Dec 21, 2009)

mtngun said:


> It's funny how much people worry about choosing the best oil for their pet machine. Machinists are the same way. I tell them I use -- gasp ! ! ! -- chainsaw bar oil to lubricate my machine ways, and they carry on like its the end of civilization.



I see the same things with bikes. They won't do a valve adjustment on time but they go on and on about how many oil changes they did and the 'special oil' they use.

How does the Bar oil hold up on your machine ways? Sounds like a great idea, thick enough. Over time..does it get hard and dry out leaving a mess? I find it hard to clean off my hands when sawing (stays sticky). Is that a problem around your machines?


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## chuckwood (Dec 21, 2009)

*where's it coming from?*



BobL said:


> I was quite surprised how loaded the used oil was with heavy metals and thought someone had played a trick on me so I collected some more samples and remeasured them.
> 
> I agree, CSM is generally overall low impact compared to a lot of other methods of timber recovery. I like my mate Hud's approach - cut down one and plant 5 more!



I'm assuming that the heavy metals are coming from the crankshaft and rod bearings and other similar type solid bearings in a motor. If that much metal is being rubbed off the bearings, I'm amazed that motors last as long as they do. Perhaps the next gov't interference project is to mandate that all engines have hard steel roller bearings instead....


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## mtngun (Dec 21, 2009)

Andrew96 said:


> How does the Bar oil hold up on your machine ways?


Typical machine way oil is 30 weight mineral oil with tackifiers added so it will cling to the ways. In other words, _*it's the same thing as bar oil*_, except they put a different label on the jug and triple the price ! ! !

But, try explaining that on a machinist's forum and you get shot down, just as you get shot down on AS if you confess to lubing your bar with used oil.

BobL makes some good points about the toxic aspects of used motor oil, but at this time there doesn't seem to be a lot of healthy alternatives for disposal. Fuel oil -- creates global warming and the toxins don't go away. Re-refining -- doesn't seem to be available in my area.

The economic argument for using quality bar oil doesn't add up, either. My milling bar cost $100, a pump costs $70. Yet despite using used oil whenver it is available, I still go through about 2 dozen gallons of store bought bar oil a year -- about $170 worth. In other words, I spend more on oil than on bars and pumps.

I consider myself a tree hugger, but the reality is that almost everything we humans do has an impact on the environment. The best we can hope for is to make less of an impact, and I think portable milling accomplishes that.


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## BobL (Dec 21, 2009)

chuckwood said:


> I'm assuming that the heavy metals are coming from the crankshaft and rod bearings and other similar type solid bearings in a motor. If that much metal is being rubbed off the bearings, I'm amazed that motors last as long as they do. Perhaps the next gov't interference project is to mandate that all engines have hard steel roller bearings instead....



Yep it is amazing, but its not just bearings, its piston, rings, cylinders, cam lobes and rockers, valves and valve seats etc. Gears rubbing direct on other gears rub or chip tiny bits of metal off the teeth. It's also not just physical wear. Hot dirty oil containing combustion contaminants also has a small amount of corrosive material which dissolves small amounts of metal. With a sensitive balance it is possible to measure this wear on a single gear or ring quite easily. Just think about how tight the gear box feels on a new car and one that has done 250,000 miles - that gear slop has gone somewhere ie into the oil.


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## demographic (Dec 21, 2009)

Aside from the contaminants in the oil, surely the solid metal particles can be removed with a filter?

That's what's in a car engine and it works for them.


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## BobL (Dec 21, 2009)

demographic said:


> Aside from the contaminants in the oil, surely the solid metal particles can be removed with a filter?
> 
> That's what's in a car engine and it works for them.



Yep - thats correct. But they aren't the environmental problem children, the solid bits have already bee collected by oil filters anyway. The environmental problem are the metals that have dissolved into atoms or molecules no physical filter or even a magnet is going to take them out of the oil, they become like water and have to be chemically separated. 

BTW it is possible to to do this, eg add a mix of warm HCl and nitric acid to the oil container and then shake for an hour. The metals will dissolve into the acid, then let the container stand for a day and the oil will rise to the top, now decant the oil. Now you have oil that is contaminated with small amounts of nitric and HCl, which can be removed by repeated washing and standing in water. Then you have to disposed of the the contaminated acid and water.


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## Andrew96 (Dec 22, 2009)

mtngun said:


> Typical machine way oil is 30 weight mineral oil with tackifiers added so it will cling to the ways. In other words, _*it's the same thing as bar oil*_, except they put a different label on the jug and triple the price ! ! !
> 
> But, try explaining that on a machinist's forum and you get shot down, just as you get shot down on AS if you confess to lubing your bar with used oil.
> 
> ...



I've gone wild posting in hast after reading for so many years. I may have gone off the wall. Tree huggers get carried away here. 
Last summer, while cutting a cherry up, on private property near a road, a young lady stopped and after some shouting...started to cry because I was 'hurting' the tree. I couldn't believe it. She called the police to stop me. Lots of drama that day. This past weekend while trying to cut a Xmas tree at a tree farm....I had the mirror smashed off my truck by a group of 'tree huggers' in the road at the farm blocking the exit (They were not smart enough to block the entrance). I was a just a little angry come monday being called a tree hugger. Sorry...... Respecting the environment..yes...tree hugger...not a chance....when does that season open? 

It's illegal to dump any used oil, or cause it to get on the ground. Anywhere you buy oil..has to by law...take it back for recycling...they cannot refuse (though they do if you bring too much at one time). Too bad a process like that isn't available everywhere. 
After reading so much around here about how people hate to use old oil on their bars...I decided NOT to mention it. I do though...I just don't use it anywhere near water, or when I'm on someones lawn and the property owner is 'helping'. 
I am going to give the bar oil a go on my machine ways. Thanks for the trick.


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## Fallguy1960 (Jan 4, 2010)

Andrew do you have any dimensions on the hole spacing that you used for your depth of cut adjustments? Also do you have any pictures of how you attached to the power head end of the bar? If you were to do another what changes would you make? What you have built is very close to the design I have been rolling around in my head to build this spring. Thanks Rob


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## mtngun (Jan 4, 2010)

Andrew96 said:


> Tree huggers get carried away here.
> Last summer, while cutting a cherry up, on private property near a road, a young lady stopped and after some shouting...started to cry because I was 'hurting' the tree. I couldn't believe it. She called the police to stop me. Lots of drama that day. This past weekend while trying to cut a Xmas tree at a tree farm....I had the mirror smashed off my truck by a group of 'tree huggers' in the road at the farm blocking the exit (They were not smart enough to block the entrance).


That's pretty wild, I can understand why loggers don't get along with them. Sounds like city people ? 

That reminds me of a story about one of my neighbors. He owns some vacation property on my mountain, and after his wife died, he remarried to a city girl. Well, they were having their property fenced to keep the cows out. As the workers were stringing barb wire through a forest, sometimes they would simply nail the barb wire to a handy tree. The city girl saw this and had a hissy fit, because the fencers were "hurting" the trees ! ! !

I'm proud to be an environmentalist, but I don't care for extremism on either side of the issue. Lumber is a green, renewable resource, nothing wrong with harvesting a few trees here and there.


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## Andrew96 (Jan 5, 2010)

mtngun said:


> That's pretty wild, I can understand why loggers don't get along with them. Sounds like city people ?
> 
> That reminds me of a story about one of my neighbors. He owns some vacation property on my mountain, and after his wife died, he remarried to a city girl. Well, they were having their property fenced to keep the cows out. As the workers were stringing barb wire through a forest, sometimes they would simply nail the barb wire to a handy tree. The city girl saw this and had a hissy fit, because the fencers were "hurting" the trees ! ! !
> 
> I proud to be an environmentalist, but I don't care for extremism on either side of the issue. Lumber is a green, renewable resource, nothing wrong with harvesting a few trees here and there.



Well the leader of the group actually delivered cash for my mirror. Yes, clearly a city guy (very low to the ground little car with loud music) but was pleasant enough. Actually apologized. Very funny. The broken mirror story may not be over. Apparently the tree farm owner is taking them to court.


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## Andrew96 (Jan 5, 2010)

Fallguy1960 said:


> Andrew do you have any dimensions on the hole spacing that you used for your depth of cut adjustments? Also do you have any pictures of how you attached to the power head end of the bar? If you were to do another what changes would you make? What you have built is very close to the design I have been rolling around in my head to build this spring. Thanks Rob



When I drilled those uprights I used a caliper to put the inner at a fixed position out from the end (my depth). I then slid the whole assembly along a backing board (to keep my hole centered) until I had enough room to put another pin hole. The relationship that matters is the position the inner tube protrudes..not where the pin holes are. Of course, the inner tube is drilled out every inch. It's just a lesson in indexed drilling. You align the inner to get your hole centered..drill it. Index up a perfect inch...then drill another. Once you have both inners drilled out, work on the outer. Setup so you are pefectly centered on the inner then crowd for the outter. You'll see. If you haven't done indexed drilling before then get an extra bit of tubing and try it first on scrap. Any error you make will be in your mill forever. I just kept moving up the bar set leaving appropriate space between holes as I went until I had all the 1/8" increments I wanted. Where the holes go is quite arbitrary providing they match an inner (plus you measurement for that hole). Clear as mud? 

If I made another one, there is not much I would change. I "think" I'd like a better fit between the inner and outer uprights but that might cause other problems. Mine were a bit loose for me...so I hammered one little area down to get a nicer fit. There is a bit of an crowding issue with the chain bar oil filling hole and the mill. I have to use a water bottle filled with oil to fill it since I cannot reach with a 1 gallon jug without making a mess. I think you'd have that with any double post design. If you went with two near the power head..you wouldn't have a problem. I wasn't going to sacrifice length of cut over using a smaller container to fill the bar oil by spacing the upright farther from the power head. Maybe on a different saw it wouldn't be a problem. So far I'm happy...wouldn't change anything. Works great for me...not too heavy..strong enough. Changes are super quick when I'm cutting little logs and keep going from starter board back to slabbin. 
Is this the kind of picture you were after? 





Ya..I know it's sideways. At least you can see how it's bolted through the bar.


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## Fallguy1960 (Jan 5, 2010)

Thanks for the help. The picture is just what I was looking for. I was guessing at the up rights hole spacing. I thought it looked like the inside was 1" spacing. I have never done index drilling but now I have a idea how to go about it. Thanks Rob


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## Andrew96 (Jan 6, 2010)

Rob, Go for it. All that will happen is you drill holes in the wrong place and have to start again. Indexed drilling is only a matter of accuracy. If you think of the inside piece as fixed..you can imagine that the outside piece has to move various amounts down to get the extra space for that dimension. Easy enough. The hard part is making sure a 'move' still has you drilling in the center.
I did think of one change I would make if I did another. I'd make the base of the mill wider. Not to fit a longer bar (that will happen anyway) but wider than the 12" that I have now. Wider would make it easy to get the whole rig up onto the end of a tree to start a cut when you are *NOT* using a starter board. Right now with 12" wide, less the bar width of say 3", you end up with about 3" of mill to start a cut. Not easy to keep that level. I'd make mine maybe offset next time. Either a bit wider, or don't put the uprights in the center of the mill. That might help the oiler filling clearance issue too.


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## BobL (Jan 6, 2010)

Andrew96 said:


> Rob, Go for it. All that will happen is you drill holes in the wrong place and have to start again. Indexed drilling is only a matter of accuracy. If you think of the inside piece as fixed..you can imagine that the outside piece has to move various amounts down to get the extra space for that dimension. Easy enough. The hard part is making sure a 'move' still has you drilling in the center.



Andrew, do you think it's a good idea to clamp the two uprights together and drilling them at the same time - then any variance are the same for both and you end up with a parallel board/slab?



> I did think of one change I would make if I did another. I'd make the base of the mill wider. Not to fit a longer bar (that will happen anyway) but wider than the 12" that I have now. Wider would make it easy to get the whole rig up onto the end of a tree to start a cut when you are *NOT* using a starter board. Right now with 12" wide, less the bar width of say 3", you end up with about 3" of mill to start a cut. Not easy to keep that level. I'd make mine maybe offset next time. Either a bit wider, or don't put the uprights in the center of the mill. That might help the oiler filling clearance issue too.



I agree, extra mill width does help but don't forget that what you gain on one side you lose on the other and that some flat is needed to complete a board as well. My mill is 15.4" wide and although I nearly always use log rails, on the odd occasion where I do cut without rails the extra width is useful in both starting and finishing a cut. 

In terms of cutting width I'd suggest bolting and not welding the cross pieces to the main mill rails so that changing bar length can be easily done by using longer rails. There are ways of making a fully welded adjustable cutting width frame but I don't think it's as easy as using bolts.


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## Andrew96 (Jan 7, 2010)

Drilling those uprights obviously is the hardest part of making my style mill. I feel in order to drill that properly you will need to drill the outer clamped in place with inner in it. That setup takes a bit of thought. I use a 'crowding' method which really just means you clamp something down which you can jam the part up against each time you remove it. I set that up for my 'set' of inner and outer. As I didn't leave a very large clearance for the pin (it's only 0.002" difference), you cannot simply clamp the inner and outer together. Doing so will require you to clamp them together again in order to get the pin through the set. You need to create and fix a clearance between the inner and outer. I used paper, you could use some thin tape if you have it. A couple of folds of regular paper is worth 0.005 to 0.010" depending on your brand. That will buy you a bit of clearance after you're done to fit the pin through the holes in a non stressed fashion. You would jam the paper on the inside edge of the outer to space the inner away from the wall a bit. You could run a bit of tape down one edge of the inner to space it away from the outer so you get that clearance after drilling. You can see now why the paint I put on the inners ended up being a problem. To much clearance and you will just end up with a sloppy assembly....no good. Now all you need to do is drill it. 
Again, I used the crowding method but for the ends (inner and outer) that way I could make two uprights the same. I don't think you'll be able to drill an indexed set of inner and outer posts that actually fit (without really loose holes) unless you drill them as a set. Getting the thing square after is a matter of making two the same (obviously with a tolerance). I actually had more of a perpendicular problem after I welded the feet on these drilled uprights and end up facing the ends off in my lathe to get them square again (heat from welding pulled them). I could have just bent them in a vise though. Not really a major problem. If every part is made perfect...the whole assembly will end up square and true. 

As for bolting the rails on my cross pieces....You can do what you want (many people like the removable bar concept) but I decided to make my 'main' mill fixed for this length. I can make it longer by bolting rails to the 'main' part but decided I'd use my smaller mill if I want if I need too. I felt bolting offered (to me) only the ability to change out the side bars for longer ones at the cost of weight and rigidity. I could do that with a bolt on addition (I actually made 3 indexed upright sets together so I have an extra for one removable extension tip in the future). This way I have less bolts to fall apart (or more to safety wire on), slightly less complexity with a less versatile mill. To keep the weight and build time down..you have to draw the line somewhere.


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## chuckwood (Jan 7, 2010)

*barbed wire in trees...*



mtngun said:


> The city girl saw this and had a hissy fit, because the fencers were "hurting" the trees ! ! !



Good girl, even though she's right for the wrong reasons! Over the years, I've harvested a lot of firewood for myself in urban and agricultural settings. Nothing's more frustrating than trying to fall a tree and then running into old barbed wire, nails, and staples while sawing at the base. I don't even bother with bucking up the first 8 feet or so of the base of a tree if I know it's near or been near a fence line.


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## Fallguy1960 (Jan 7, 2010)

Thanks for the insight fella's. I have the rest of the winter to plan. -20 is just a bit to nippy to be working out in the shed.


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## olyman (Jan 8, 2010)

chuckwood said:


> Good girl, even though she's right for the wrong reasons! Over the years, I've harvested a lot of firewood for myself in urban and agricultural settings. Nothing's more frustrating than trying to fall a tree and then running into old barbed wire, nails, and staples while sawing at the base. I don't even bother with bucking up the first 8 feet or so of the base of a tree if I know it's near or been near a fence line.



got a metal detector??--seems guys that use em--swear by em--not at em--


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## gr8scott72 (Jan 8, 2010)

olyman said:


> got a metal detector??--seems guys that use em--swear by em--not at em--



I've wanted one for a while now for when I'm grinding stumps and now while I'm milling. Seems like I'll have to get one soon.


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## BobL (Jan 8, 2010)

olyman said:


> got a metal detector??--seems guys that use em--swear by em--not at em--



I have one and use it on yard trees. I've picked up one nail and missed 2. The other danger with yard trees is concrete and glass. Why on earth people put these into trees is beyond me.


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## Andrew96 (Jan 9, 2010)

I guess I'm just new...or lucky. I've never hit anything that caused cutter damage. Does it happen that often? Or is it such a major problem you remember it for years?


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## 820wards (Jan 10, 2010)

Andrew,

I like your idea for oiling the nose. I to made my nose oiler so that it oils through the grove in the bar. I silver brased a 1/8" F pipe fitting to the area of the bar not used for milling. Then added a drip system with a needle type valve to mter the oil flow. I like oiling through the grove in the bar. Always good to see new ideas. 

Looks like I'll be ordering a new, longer bar for my mill. I only have a 38" bar now. I have the opportunity to mill a 48" wide Camphor tree. Cool wood. I've been told if you make silverware boxes from the wood, the silver won't tarnish.

Thanks for you post.

jerry-


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## Andrew96 (Jan 10, 2010)

Jerry, Thanks. I decided to do my oiler based on stuff I read/photos I saw here and what I know I can make. Having photos of how you did it are tremendous. How about adding a photo of your setup so the new people, doing their own have a few more options? 

Good job on the big tree...hence big bar. I figure that's how you end up with a bigger bar..the tree shows up, therefore the bar must follow.


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## rayvil01 (Jan 10, 2010)

Andrew96 said:


> I guess I'm just new...or lucky. I've never hit anything that caused cutter damage. Does it happen that often? Or is it such a major problem you remember it for years?



It happens. I hit one cutting firewood not long ago. It makes a mess of the cutters. That was a 98 DL chain that's now a 60 DL. If you don't have a rivet spinner, you lose a chain. 

I hit a polyethylene rope that was embedded in a log while milling. Didn't hurt anything. But, that was bizarre. I started getting green sawdust Someone had tied a rope around the tree and it just grew over it. Wish I had taken a picture.


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## 820wards (Jan 12, 2010)

rayvil01 said:


> It happens. I hit one cutting firewood not long ago. It makes a mess of the cutters. That was a 98 DL chain that's now a 60 DL. If you don't have a rivet spinner, you lose a chain.
> 
> I hit a polyethylene rope that was embedded in a log while milling. Didn't hurt anything. But, that was bizarre. I started getting green sawdust Someone had tied a rope around the tree and it just grew over it. Wish I had taken a picture.



Bluerider was milling an elm tree and hit two 1/2" bolts and a ceramic insolator that someone put in/on the tree many years ago. He was the lucky guy to find all of them with his saws. I saw the piece yesterday. He dulled a .404 chain real bad, but it sawed through the bolts and then broke a 3/8" chain on another saw on th ceramic insulator. 

BLUERIDER, I sawed up the remain wood after I cut away the section with the bolts/insulator, Bernie is going to use that piece for splitting on.

jerry-


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## treecycle (Jan 12, 2010)

Just wrapping up my csm and am working on the oiler. Will keep you posted with more picks, cheers


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## BobL (Jan 12, 2010)

treecycle said:


> Just wrapping up my csm and am working on the oiler. Will keep you posted with more picks, cheers



Nice work - can't wait to see that one in action. What sort of engine is it?

It that a home made drive sprocket?


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## treecycle (Jan 12, 2010)

it is a Kohler 25 horse, with a fabbed up 17 pin 404 sprocket. I hope to run full comp with the rakers down a bit, what do you think?


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## treecycle (Jan 12, 2010)

For the oiler I will be using a 5 gallon bucket full of canola oil. What I would like to try is the drip method oiler using a valve to a short length of flexible copper tubing( like 1/4 inch) coming out of the bottom of the bucket gravity feed style.?


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## huskyhank (Jan 12, 2010)

treecycle said:


> it is a Kohler 25 horse, with a fabbed up 17 pin 404 sprocket. I hope to run full comp with the rakers down a bit, what do you think?



Wow!
That is gonna make some sawdust!!


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## john inglis (Jan 12, 2010)

*used oli*

hi , i have used recycled oil in my older saws for years with no problems tho it pays to let it settle in a 60 litre drum with a magnet in it , i then filter it thru several layers of thick felt . i run a pipe from the feeder tank thru to a larger pipe with felt and then into another drum ,slow but leave it going all the time and you get a good supply of oil . a tap on he bottom drum lets you draw of cleaned oil when you need it.

ps it was 40 degrees centigrade here yesterday so black drums catching the sun get the oil flowing especially as the top drum gets pretty hot


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## BobL (Jan 12, 2010)

treecycle said:


> it is a Kohler 25 horse, with a fabbed up 17 pin 404 sprocket. I hope to run full comp with the rakers down *a bit,* what do you think?



WOW - Did you fab it yourself?

What sort of continuous max RPM are we talking about?

RE: Rakers down "a bit" 
- I would start at 0.045" and go up from there. Some guys with Lucas slabbers with those sorts of horses run 0.06"


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## treecycle (Jan 12, 2010)

I bought the sprocket and adjustable roller tip and5 ft bar off www.lmsaws.com
The centrifigul clutch is rated to 40 hp and is off a go kart

If I had known though about another company, I could have ordered a 22 pin sprocket to up my chainspeed. I am planning on using this as slabbing mill. Just like a Lucas mill, my carriage rolls on 20 ft rails. What is different are that my rails are are push button operated, on either side of a 20ft shipping container. 

As far as motor rpms, its max is 3600, in the wood under load, we shall see


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## BobL (Jan 12, 2010)

treecycle said:


> I bought the sprocket and adjustable roller tip and5 ft bar off www.lmsaws.com
> The centrifigul clutch is rated to 40 hp and is off a go kart
> 
> If I had known though about another company, I could have ordered a 22 pin sprocket to up my chainspeed. I am planning on using this as slabbing mill. Just like a Lucas mill, my carriage rolls on 20 ft rails. What is different are that my rails are are push button operated, on either side of a 20ft shipping container.
> ...



Pics - it don't exist till we see pics!

Hows the noise and fumes inside the container?
And how do you get the log into the container?

3600 rpm with a 17 pin = 47 mph which is a bit on the light side. 22 gives 60 mph which would be SMOKING!


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## treecycle (Jan 13, 2010)

Thats one of the better things about the 4 stroke as it has a really nice muffler that kicks the exhaust out and away. One entire side( 20ft by 8ft high) Has been removed from the container. All logs and slabs willl be moved by a forklift. Pics are coming, hold on!


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## BobL (Jan 13, 2010)

Hey treecycle, I reckon you should start your own thread on your mill. People are gonna want to look for it for some time. If it's buried in this thread it will be harder to find.
Cheers


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## huskyhank (Jan 13, 2010)

BobL said:


> Hey treecycle, I reckon you should start your own thread on your mill. People are gonna want to look for it for some time. If it's buried in this thread it will be harder to find.
> Cheers



I second that.
I can't wait to see what you're doing and I am sure others will as well.


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## demographic (Jan 13, 2010)

BobL said:


> Hey treecycle, I reckon you should start your own thread on your mill. People are gonna want to look for it for some time. If it's buried in this thread it will be harder to find.
> Cheers



I'll third that.

treecycle, could you do a built thread about your mill please? With lots of photos cataloguing the process? 
Its fascinating.


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## treecycle (Jan 13, 2010)

10-4 on that, thanks


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