# cutting roots?



## imagineero (Mar 31, 2011)

Hi all,
Did a removal of about 10 camphor laurels a few days ago and all went well, ground out the stumps with a 16hp red roo. Awful machine by the way.

There was one block of 3 stumps in between a pool and a fence, hard up to the fence. There is sandstone paving all around it. The pool and fence are being demolished. The biggest stump is about 2', the smallest 1', but they have formed a pretty solid block together of twisted above ground roots. The mass of stump/roots/dirt is about 3' wide, 10' long and about 2' above ground. I told the HO I wouldnt be able to do the stumps and he agreed. The job is done, and he paid, but would like me to do something with the stumps. There are rocks, bricks etc inside the mass of roots as they have grown over things including the pavers. I already contacted the 2 biggest stump grinding companies in town. One didn't want to do it, and the other quoted an extremely high price because he didnt want to do it either.

I haven't really got a lot of ideas besides hard work and suffering. I can get a bigger self propelled grinder in there, but I can picture going through a lot of teeth and possibly damaging the machine. I imagine what I'll have to do is dig, pry, blow and wash away all I can, and keep at it with a couple labourers and an old bar and chain to get it down to stumps, flush cut the stumps and then grind it. I'm guessing a couple of days for this. Hoping someone has a magic solution, or at least a labour-reducing idea. I can't get a digger in there, or a crane. 

Anybody ever tried those concrete cutting demolition saws on roots? Does dirt destroy the (expensive) diamond blade? Sure would be nice to have a big circular saw or something that i could cut roots out with, especially if it didn't mind dirt, stones and bricks!

Shaun


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## sgreanbeans (Mar 31, 2011)

Been here before. First,are they cement or clay bricks, you can grind clay bricks if they are locked in place, they are soft inside and the grinder probably wont know that they are there. Concrete?,well its concrete! I have found clay bricks inside a maple stump, just kept going, didn't even do anything to the blades but maybe dull them a slight bit. As far as the other junk, if ya can get a pull behind in there, you should be able to get a mini excavator in, I have used those to clean up the out edges of a flare that had a bunch of bobwire in it. Just a thought. I have also taken a sawzaw to the bell, to cut out big rocks and or those cement stepping stones that are locked in do to growth. When I have one that is up next to a concrete pad, I get as close as possible and again, turn to the sawzaw to clean up what is left. That way I am not trashin a chain, sawzaw blades are much cheaper! Gonna try and find the pic of the brick. This all probably common knowledge to ya, but I thought I would pitch it anyway!


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## imagineero (Mar 31, 2011)

Thanks for the post,
the sawzall idea is pretty good. I havent done too many messy stumps in past - I mainly stick to tree work, and easy stumps. The hard stuff I tend to leave for other guys ;-)

All good ideas, another thing that occurred to me this afternoon is to maybe hire one of those real high pressure petrol powered washers and get in there. Would probably be easier that trying to scrape the dirt away since you cant really get in between all the roots easily with any tools. Mud seems a bit easier on chains than dirt too. 

Shaun


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## Don't-B-Stumped (Mar 31, 2011)

I'd go at it with a grinder. I always have a long pry bar to knock loose rocks or pavers that trees and roots grow around. Also wire cutters are always in the toolbox as well as spare greenteeth. You're not going to hurt the grinder. The worst is you'll chip some teeth. I've hit railroad spikes that were pounded into a tree 20 years previous, rebar that I assume was used to prop a tree up( I did quit after I ruined about 10 teeth on the rebar incident). I hit rock and pavers and concrete all the time. Just charge enough to cover some teeth and tell your client that he needs to expect to pay more to cover damage.


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## treemandan (Mar 31, 2011)

Oh, this is an easy one: charge by the hour! Have fun bro.:msp_smile:


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## no tree to big (Mar 31, 2011)

go to your local rental store, rent a grinder and spend the extra 10% on the damage waiver :wink: and go to town


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## Bigus Termitius (Mar 31, 2011)

Tnt!


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## Labman (Mar 31, 2011)

Yeah, the recip saw. I came across some prunning saw blades at Big Lots cheap. I also use a drain spade to clear the dirt around the roots. It is enough narrower to get between them. I sharpen mine to slice the smaller roots with it.


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## beastmaster (Apr 1, 2011)

Bid those suckers really high and dig them out. I dig stumps all the time. Start with an axe and cut a root close to the stump, then cut that same root a foot or so back. Do that all the way round and then start digging under the stump with a Maddox. It helps to leave the stump kinda high so you can put a come -a- long or tractor, or truck, to it for leverage.
If the stump isn't dried out and dead, the roots are pretty soft. I found if you dig out under the root your working on, an axe makes good progress.
I didn't like using a rec. saw, but I have a little root saw from corona that works great. (looks like a dry wall saw)Some times on a big bad ass root, I'll expose it and them carefully peel back the bark by cutting shallow lines down each side then just peel. Now you can use a chain saw with your Rootchain (an old retired chain)and cut a V in it and finish it with an axe.
Some times you get lucky and can split the stump with a wedge or two.
I attack stumps vary methodically and have great success.(I don't own a stump grinder) Oh it helps to have a couple laborers with you too. One drawback to digging is your left with a big hole and a stump to dispose of. But if you bid it right so what. Beastmaster


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## derwoodii (May 28, 2011)

Hey ya imagineero just found ya post if you still got the problem I reckon this stuff will work, if you got an old 60 cc size saw a hard nose bar n stihl rapid duru saw chain will set you back hmm about $300 but you'll may get about $1500 of work back from one chain. 
Camphor roots while evil growing are solf and with some work you'll get em out. 

http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/105193.htm

This threads got youtube of demo saw which may be a solution too

http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/141372.htm


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## imagineero (May 29, 2011)

got the job done a few days after starting that thread, I ended up hiring a crappy stump grinder with insurance, and a 3000PSI petrol powered water blaster.

I started by blasting all the dirt out from between the roots and then cutting them with a saw. Went through a couple of chains and it wasnt quick but the water blaster was good - it ended up taking the bark right off the roots and would cut roots under an inch straight through in about 15 seconds. It was very messy work, and slow... but I got through it in about 7 hours with another guy helping me. We got absolutely filthy. In the attached pic it looks like I was wearing trousers. I was only wearing shorts! The attached pic only shows part of the biggest stump. The whole section was quite long and concreted on one side and paved on the other.

It was lucky I got the insurance on the grinder because it ended up cracking the engine case completely in half (!). The guy at the hire place said it must have been a faulty machine because he couldn't conceive of any way of damaging the machine like that. It was a cheaper red roo. They gave me another machine and I finished the job off. I think from memory I put about $1000 on the stumps. I wouldn't do it again for that price. The best quote i could get for subbing the job out to a stump guy was $1500 cash. I thought it was outrageous at the time and that doing it at $1k would be easy money for me. Having completed the job I think the $1500 was right on the money. I emptied out maybe 4 wheelbarrow loads of rocks and bricks from within the roots.

Shaun
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## derwoodii (May 29, 2011)

aww man that was one mother of SOB stump, well done getting it out rapid duru may have helped but it would still needed all ya manpower to pull apart all that root mass.
Water blasting while looks an idea is real messy, I use high pressure air or blowers rather than makin mud pies of me & the job.


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## David (saltas) (May 29, 2011)

Ever used a vac truck?

I use a poor mans vac truck kartcher and a ryobi wet'n'dry vacuum to do small transplants


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## TimberMcPherson (May 29, 2011)

The best manual tool for doing stumps, we have one and its AWESOME, breaks stumps up in pieces, cuts roots and generally makes me wonder how I did without it for so long. Bisalloy head, just insanely strong.

The Slammer - Kiwi Supertool


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## derwoodii (May 29, 2011)

TimberMcPherson said:


> The best manual tool for doing stumps, we have one and its AWESOME, breaks stumps up in pieces, cuts roots and generally makes me wonder how I did without it for so long. Bisalloy head, just insanely strong.
> 
> The Slammer - Kiwi Supertool



Slamtastic, I not seen one of those n now I gotz to get me one. 
You kiwis are n amazing mob, I seen many a great idea arise from your land. I reckon its the mixture of ya world isolation combining with a great gift for creativity to fill needs. You just don't follow the same path as others you make new ones & often better.


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## derwoodii (May 29, 2011)

saltas said:


> Ever used a vac truck?
> 
> I use a poor mans vac truck kartcher and a ryobi wet'n'dry vacuum to do small transplants


 
No not yet, seen em for hire and curious to have a go, others I know have had so one day I'll get mean ol stump or root explore job that needs one. 

Air knife are good but so loud n messy only used once rather just dig n use a hand blower to push away the spoil.


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## TimberMcPherson (May 29, 2011)

derwoodii said:


> Slamtastic, I not seen one of those n now I gotz to get me one.
> You kiwis are n amazing mob, I seen many a great idea arise from your land. I reckon its the mixture of ya world isolation combining with a great gift for creativity to fill needs. You just don't follow the same path as others you make new ones & often better.


 
The guy who invented and sells the slammer I think is American! 
Kiwis traditionally being farmers and general tinkers didnt have the money to buy new stuff and dont understand that they cant make it themselves or invent it. Its basic desperation and ignorance!


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