# burning softwood.???



## Knotdodger (Jan 13, 2008)

I didnt want to search. So the tree crews were cutting alot of pines ,, birch,, and poplar the last week along the road. County property. All the pine is in log form. Birch was just topped and dropped. A few people were out gathering the wood. Still a few semi loads out there. 

I was loading some pine logs in my truck. Then someone next to me says " you going to burn pine??" Its full of creosole. 

Hehe ,, I have did alot of reading on Creasole. Its from not burning properly seasoned wood .. More less. So I have two face cords of pine. And 1 of 3" to 6" birch... I like it. Of course Oak is nice. But I burn pine , Poplar and every thing else I can find to cut up ... Exept willow.. I hate willow...hehehe

How many of you guys in the North central and east burn softwoods with no problem.. ????????

Here for me its like always free wood. No one seems to burn pine.

OH Yeah,, Sorry but I dont know one fir or pine from the other.. But am going to study on michigan trees so I dont feel so stupid about the subject.....

Just making conversation fella's.. Have a good one.


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## reaperman (Jan 13, 2008)

If it were me, I'd load up on the birch first, its a hardwood, not a softwood. Than followed by popple, which burns hot, and forget the pine. I dont have pine trees in my area, mostly oak, ash, and popple. So I'm not too up on the evergreens.


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## John Bartley (Jan 13, 2008)

I lived in Iroquois Falls for several years about 30 years ago. We had no real hardwood there. We burned poplar as the main fuel with birch being saved for the cold weather. We used jackpine or spruce for kindling. It used to get pretty cold during Jan and Feb there, and we lived in an old house, so we burned about 15 bush cords of poplar each winter. When you're burning that much, you've got the draft open quite wide, so the chimney stays hot right to the top and the creosote doesn't get a chance to condense on the inside. We'd clean the chimney once per year. We did our cutting in the winter. We'd cut to pulp length and pile in the bush. Once the bush dried up we'd go in with a tractor and wagon and haul out to the yard. We had a buzz saw powered by a Cockshutt 20 that we used to cut the pulp into 16". We'd split by hand.

cheers


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## Mike Van (Jan 13, 2008)

You can burn some pine, works better dry of course. Beats burning snowballs or #2 fuel oil.


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## bowtechmadman (Jan 13, 2008)

I'll burn any type of wood in my owb. I suppose I'd be pickier if I was burning inside where I had a chimney to worry about cleaning. As it is on my OWB I only have a 3' chimney so I'm not picky when it's free. I do try and burn the softwoods and less desirable hardwoods in the fall and spring milder temps.


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## gtstang462002 (Jan 13, 2008)

If it is free I burn it. If I am burning pine I try to mix it with a hardwood. The pine obviously burns faster but creates a good bed of coals for the hardwood to sit on. Been doing it this way for 3 years now with no major creosote buildup.


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## Sprig (Jan 13, 2008)

gtstang462002 said:


> If it is free I burn it. If I am burning pine I try to mix it with a hardwood. The pine obviously burns faster but creates a good bed of coals for the hardwood to sit on. Been doing it this way for 3 years now with no major creosote buildup.


Yup, and pine is great daytime 'gitcher place warm' stuff, but as someone mentioned, I'd be scoopin' the birch, not burned much of it but sure was nice, sort of alder or maple-ish. Most of what I had last year was balsam/grande fir (white pine kin, not really a fir like douglas), burnt fast and hot so for the night burns I'd leave a piece or two in the rain to get water wet, it did noticably slow the burn down but with a bit of extra build-up in the flue, no biggie imo. Exception I see is what is referred to here as 'pitch-pine', burns like he!! and can get scarey hot, like its name says, very gummy/sticky/pitchy/sappy, real nice to clean up after too (not!).
As so many know already, free is the best possible price! 

 & happy fires alla 'round!

Serge


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## Knotdodger (Jan 13, 2008)

> You can burn some pine, works better dry of course. Beats burning snowballs or #2 fuel oil.




Hehehehehe... Nice

I stacked the pine and birch in the same row for quick light ups..


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## WidowMaker (Jan 13, 2008)

Sprig said:


> Yup, and pine is great daytime 'gitcher place warm' stuff, but as someone mentioned, I'd be scoopin' the birch, not burned much of it but sure was nice, sort of alder or maple-ish.  _Most of what I had last year was balsam/grande fir (white pine kin, not really a fir like douglas), _burnt fast and hot so for the night burns I'd leave a piece or two in the rain to get water wet, it did noticably slow the burn down but with a bit of extra build-up in the flue, no biggie imo. Exception I see is what is referred to here as 'pitch-pine', burns like he!! and can get scarey hot, like its name says, very gummy/sticky/pitchy/sappy, real nice to clean up after too (not!).
> As so many know already, free is the best possible price!
> 
> & happy fires alla 'round!
> ...




===========
Despite it's name, Douglas Fir is actually a species of Spruce, Who woulda thunk it....

WidowMaker


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## Mikecutstrees (Jan 13, 2008)

I burn pine all the time. just make sure like any firewood it's dry. I usually try to mix it in with some hardwood so I don't have to fill the stove so often. I burn willow too but it really sucks but its better than paying to get rid of it....


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## StihltheOne (Jan 13, 2008)

Around here, pine is fine, as it and cottonwood are about it, fer wood at all, the state tree in Wyoming we claim is the electric pole. Just use what ya can get, be happy. It is certainly is not the best wood in the shed, but if it is the only it wood, I would say that maybe it is 'specially if it free. I burn 6+ cords per year in the house of pine, and about the same of cottonwood and get this... Russian olive... in the shop. If you have not ever delt with "RO" I would invite everyone that you don't like to help. It is not fun.


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## cjcocn (Jan 13, 2008)

About all that we have here is poplar, (jack) pine, spruce, and birch.

I would scoop the birch, then the pine, and the poplar would be last on my list.

Most of my wood is jack pine and it burns plenty hot enough for me. Ideally I would burn only birch, but there is a ton of dry jack pine left on the ground by the local logging operations and I grab as much of that as I can.

I had about 6 cords of poplar that I cut down from my front yard last summer and am trying to burn it up this winter. It was relatively free and was easier than hauling it somewhere, but otherwise I don't plan on burning poplar again once this batch is gone. Thankfully I am rebuilding a tractor in my garage so I have an excuse to build a fire in there more often than I normally would. That should help me get rid of the poplar.


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## Woodjack (Jan 13, 2008)

*"Pine is fine"*

There was an article in the NY Times Friday(?) about burning wood in a fireplace. Nothing really of value that everyone here doesn’t already know from reading these message boards. However, there was a quote from Ashley Eldridge, director of education for the Chimney Safety Institute of America, and Bob Fish, who owns Vermont Master Chimney Sweeps in Londonderry.

From the article: Both he (Eldridge) and Mr. Fish are quick to dispel a myth about which woods burn best. “Burning soft woods and creating too much creosote is an old wives’ tale.” Mr. Fish said. Mr. Eldridge further explained: “Because of pine’s inherently resinous nature, people think tar will remain in the chimney. The truth is, pine is great for starting a fire because that pitch is often flammable. It will light up very quickly, so if you’ve got a larger fire, it makes an ideal kindling. Whereas a piece of hickory, because of its density, it’s not going to go off when you put a match to it.”

Here’s a link to the article:
http://travel.nytimes.com/2008/01/11/travel/escapes/11your.html?scp=1&sq=waking+up+an+idle+hearth


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## Dok (Jan 14, 2008)

Lots of people burn pine around here. My neighbor burns it green :jawdrop: and unlike hardwoods it will burn when green. I use pine to start the fire and then switch to oak, but that is because where I cut its all oak. Locally its all pine, so that's what the neighbors burn. My experience is pine burns almost as hot as oak but doesn't burn as long. 
Dok


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## ciscoguy01 (Jan 14, 2008)

*Pine*

Did anyone realize that evergreens, meaning pine/spruce/firs, are the main source of wood in Alaska??? There's VERY little hardwood, and by that it's only a very small amount of birch and popple. Anybody that says you can't burn has NO clue about wood period. It should be seasoned or at least dried a little, and normally when you burn it you'd want to make sure it's burning hot enough. Ponderosa pine has good very good BTU value, better than birch as a matter of fact and poplar... The entire state of AK can't be wrong, and I think we'd hear about tons of homes burning down from chimney fires up there if it were that much of a problem. Heck, I've always burned anything I could get my hands on. It's heat, isn't that the main idea in it. They make guages for your chimney that will tell you the heat ranges to prevent creosote buildup. If burned alot, a chimney can burn out and it won't hurt anything. The problem arrives when the ceramic lining is broken or cracked, then the creosote will seep out and cause the fire. If you have a good chimney that's cleaned every year, as well as burning hot enough, you can burn anything in your stove. Ignore the people that say different. A million people can't all be wrong...

 eh?


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## turnkey4099 (Jan 14, 2008)

ciscoguy01 said:


> Did anyone realize that evergreens, meaning pine/spruce/firs, are the main source of wood in Alaska??? There's VERY little hardwood, and by that it's only a very small amount of birch and popple. Anybody that says you can't burn has NO clue about wood period. It should be seasoned or at least dried a little, and normally when you burn it you'd want to make sure it's burning hot enough. Ponderosa pine has good very good BTU value, better than birch as a matter of fact and poplar... The entire state of AK can't be wrong, and I think we'd hear about tons of homes burning down from chimney fires up there if it were that much of a problem. Heck, I've always burned anything I could get my hands on. It's heat, isn't that the main idea in it. They make guages for your chimney that will tell you the heat ranges to prevent creosote buildup. If burned alot, a chimney can burn out and it won't hurt anything. The problem arrives when the ceramic lining is broken or cracked, then the creosote will seep out and cause the fire. If you have a good chimney that's cleaned every year, as well as burning hot enough, you can burn anything in your stove. Ignore the people that say different. A million people can't all be wrong...
> 
> eh?




Same out here. Evergreens are about all that is commonly available other then lucking out on urban removals. Burned almost all pine back when a kid. King of the "common woods" here is Tamarack followed by Red Fir. Neither available anywhere near me (within a 100-150 mile round trip). I burn almost all Willow. Yep, it is right at the bottom of the list for BTU/lb value but when I an get all I want withing 10-15 miles of the house, be out and back in 1/2 day with almost a full cord on the truck... Does keep one's physical condition up getting out of the chair to feed the fire often though.

Harry K


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## ciscoguy01 (Jan 14, 2008)

*Yip*



turnkey4099 said:


> Same out here. Evergreens are about all that is commonly available other then lucking out on urban removals. Burned almost all pine back when a kid. King of the "common woods" here is Tamarack followed by Red Fir. Neither available anywhere near me (within a 100-150 mile round trip). I burn almost all Willow. Yep, it is right at the bottom of the list for BTU/lb value but when I an get all I want withing 10-15 miles of the house, be out and back in 1/2 day with almost a full cord on the truck... Does keep one's physical condition up getting out of the chair to feed the fire often though.
> 
> Harry K



Preach on brotha. Free wood, even if it's pine, is quite a bit cheaper than #2/kerosene/ and electric. Anytime you can heat for free and it only requires a little bit of your back to do it I'd say its worth it. When confronted with the choice I think it's pretty easy for me to decide. Matter of fact, when I put the new stove in, I'm going with a 12" pipe and am gonna burn all the pine I can get my hands on... Popple or anything else too... Some people eh? hehehehehehehe I'm burning willow and popple right now at my grandmother's house. She has an abundance of it and it's free and close and helps her keep her heating bills in line. There's some maple/birch/oak and ash mixed in there also, but most is the other. She's happy and I check her chimney regularly, it's never got a bit of creosote in it...

 eh?


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## Woodjack (Jan 14, 2008)

For me, the question isn't so much about btu's per lb, but whether it's safe to burn or not. I live in a forest of hardwoods (oak, maple, hickory) and also, a lot of pine. I love burning very dry pine. It's lights like paper, burns a nice clean fire, and gets all my damp hardwood going. I just don't want my beautiful fire to burn down my beautiful home.


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## Mikecutstrees (Jan 14, 2008)

woodjack, I may be confused but are you saying that your afraid of the pine burning too hot and burning down your house? If thats the case then you have things all backwards, the damp hardwood is the wood you should worry about burning down your house. It burns too cold to heat up the flue correctly and leaves a creasote buildup which is dangerous. Again maybe I was confused by your post. Burn only dry wood..... any dry wood is fine.


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## Woodjack (Jan 14, 2008)

This is my first year burning wood so I'm on a steep leaning curve and playing catch-up. I had heard that pine creates creosote, but I learned that's not necessarily true. As for my damp hardwoods, it's mostly all I got. It's seasoned but a lot of it is wet. Delivered wood comes seasoned and wet from rain and snow. I scavenge the forest, but most dead wood that's seasoned to burn is damp. I don't know what else I can do but burn the best stuff I got.

Sometimes I have trouble keeping my flue above 250 degrees. Is that dangerous? And where exactly should I be putting my thermometer, on the flue or the stove?


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## Mikecutstrees (Jan 14, 2008)

woodjack, I don't have a thermometer but many one here do and they can advise you. I think 250 is way too cold though but as I said I'm not sure. Best bet for firewood is to stay a year ahead which sucks if it's your first season. My best advise is find some standing dead oak to burn. Keep it dry after cutting it, then split it and it should be good to go pretty soon (Couple weeks). Ash is good too, but standing dead ash can often be pretty rotted. Sometimes I work in kingston, I'm not sure where in the catskills you are but I might be able to hook you up with some cheap or free wood next year. Just PM me and I'll keep your name on file..... Mike


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## Woodjack (Jan 14, 2008)

mike, thanks. I just sent you a PM. I'm in woodstock near the saugerties border. I cut down a dead oak the other day and it was punky/rotted and tough too split. is that knid of wood okay to burn?


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## Brushwacker (Jan 14, 2008)

I am not new to burning wood and have burned enough pine verses hardwood to know there is a difference between the amount of creosote in dry pine and dry oak. I would estimate most pine I have used you would need to clean your chimney at least 2 to 1 verses hardwoods comprible in dryness.
I am cautious because it sucks up on a roof in the middle of winter and not having a toasty warm fire to look forward to when you get back inside.
My advice to anyone used to burning hardwoods use the pine sparingly fall and winter then use it up in the late spring, then clean your chimney. Of course it shouldn't be a problem in an outside wood burner in the open,or if its not a problem cleaning your chimney during the winter. Mabe there is some pines that creosote less then the ones I have used.
I use a little , mostly for kindling,and if I am burning a hot fire I sometimes add a 3 to 4inch piece. I like the smell of pine and I do not like seeing wood wasted. It makes good campfire wood and I usually stack some where our family camps.
Any body burned much eastern red ceder or northern white ceder ?
I have been using a little eastern red about like I use pine.


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## cjcocn (Jan 14, 2008)

Woodjack said:


> mike, thanks. I just sent you a PM. I'm in woodstock near the saugerties border. I cut down a dead oak the other day and it was punky/rotted and tough too split. is that knid of wood okay to burn?



That's the kind of wood that we used to gather for our smoke house (not the oak part, but the punky/rotted part). While I am not familiar with oak, I generally stay away from the punky/rotted stuff as far as firewood goes.

Also (from your post - # 20 in this thread), how do you store your wood? If you stack it on a pallet (not just pile it on the ground), then only the top of the stack should get any real moisture - wood from within the stack should remain relatively dry. If you are buying wood one cord at a time and it doesn't really have an opportunity to dry, can you stack it inside near your stove so that it has some chance of drying? Stacking (as opposed to just piling) promotes air flow and helps to season and keep your wood pile dry.

HTH


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## Woodjack (Jan 14, 2008)

I have my wood nicely stacked on pallets and keep it covered on top with a plastic tarp. The problem is that the wood gets very little sun. After reading the replies on this thread I'm concerned that it may not season - ever. Will wood season in the shade? Do you think wood dries faster outdoors or indoors in a 55 degree room?


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## Mikecutstrees (Jan 14, 2008)

usually oak is a little punky on the outside but the inside is solid and dry. If its not solid then it's been dead too long (5+ years) and is a waste of time. I burn alot of limb wood from pruning oaks it's free and burns great and is hard on my chipper to chip. Thanks for the PM next time I get a takedown in the kingston area I'll give you a shout. The first year I was in my house I didn't have much good wood either so I brought as much as I could in and then kept it near the fire to help it dry out some. Also wood will season in the shade but it takes a while longer. Keep it covered and the sides open and it will be good in a year usually depending on the type of wood.


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## Mikecutstrees (Jan 14, 2008)

http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/howood.htm

Check out this website. All kinds of useful info on wood plus answers to misunderstood woodburning questions and other stuff.


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## cjcocn (Jan 14, 2008)

Woodjack said:


> I have my wood nicely stacked on pallets and keep it covered on top with a plastic tarp. The problem is that the wood gets very little sun. After reading the replies on this thread I'm concerned that it may not season - ever. Will wood season in the shade? Do you think wood dries faster outdoors or indoors in a 55 degree room?



From one of your earlier posts, I thought that you bought the wood already seasoned? If not, then maybe you had better start by looking for a different supplier - one who can deliver seasoned wood to you. If you are in your first year and are burning the wood as you get it, then getting seasoned wood is quite important.

As Mikecutstrees stated, it is best to stay a year ahead of your wood needs. Are you set up to process your own firewood from the forest to your wood stove? If so, have you gathered next season's wood yet? Having next year's wood stacked will help to eliminate some of these concerns next year.

As far as where will wood dry faster, it depends on your current outdoor conditions (and wood will season in the shade, but not as fast as it would being in direct sunlight).

HTH


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## Woodjack (Jan 15, 2008)

Mikecutstrees said:


> usually oak is a little punky on the outside but the inside is solid and dry. If its not solid then it's been dead too long (5+ years) and is a waste of time. I burn alot of limb wood from pruning oaks it's free and burns great and is hard on my chipper to chip. Thanks for the PM next time I get a takedown in the kingston area I'll give you a shout. The first year I was in my house I didn't have much good wood either so I brought as much as I could in and then kept it near the fire to help it dry out some. Also wood will season in the shade but it takes a while longer. Keep it covered and the sides open and it will be good in a year usually depending on the type of wood.



Thanks for the info and for any wood you give or reasonably sell to me.


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## Woodjack (Jan 15, 2008)

cjcocn said:


> From one of your earlier posts, I thought that you bought the wood already seasoned? If not, then maybe you had better start by looking for a different supplier - one who can deliver seasoned wood to you. If you are in your first year and are burning the wood as you get it, then getting seasoned wood is quite important.
> 
> As Mikecutstrees stated, it is best to stay a year ahead of your wood needs. Are you set up to process your own firewood from the forest to your wood stove? If so, have you gathered next season's wood yet? Having next year's wood stacked will help to eliminate some of these concerns next year.
> 
> ...



All of the above - I have a lot of wood from recently cut trees, a forest of standing and dead trees, and a recently delivered cord of wood. I think the cord is well seasoned, only wet from being exposed outdoors. I'm hoping it will dry out in about a week.
My problem is I don't get much sun and was wondering if my recently cut wood will season well, covered dry but always in shade. 

Process my own wood? I cut it with a chain saw, split it with a maul, then stack it. That's my process.

Maybe this should be a new thread, but do you guys think I can get through the winter just gathering and burning branches (1-3 inches)?


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## Dok (Jan 15, 2008)

I went through what you are going through about eight years ago. The seasoned wood you get from the firewood sellers is never dry enough. I purchased two cords of "seasoned" oak and alder mix with wood I cut myself. I found standing dead branches and trees would burn fine. The leaves should be long gone and sometimes you will find branches so old that the bark is falling off. Look for pieces that are off the ground, anything on the ground for a year will start to rot. I would cut branches as small as 1.5" diameter. I stayed with the smaller pieces because they were usually dryer than the larger portions. I also supplemented the hardwood with pine, which dries out a lot faster than oak and even burns green. You can get a hot fire going with pine then put in a piece of the not quite dry hardwood in and it will go. 

You should also start laying in wood now for next fall. Its best to get your cutting done in the spring so the wood can have a full summer to season. In the summer I take the tarps off the wood ricks to help the process. If you are in the shade the wood will still season, just split all the rounds you can and stack the wood so that air can pass through. 
Hope this helps!
Dok


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## cjcocn (Jan 15, 2008)

Woodjack said:


> All of the above - I have a lot of wood from recently cut trees, a forest of standing and dead trees, and a recently delivered cord of wood. I think the cord is well seasoned, only wet from being exposed outdoors. I'm hoping it will dry out in about a week.
> My problem is I don't get much sun and was wondering if my recently cut wood will season well, covered dry but always in shade.
> 
> Process my own wood? I cut it with a chain saw, split it with a maul, then stack it. That's my process.
> ...



It sounds like you have the makings of a good wood supply. Depending on the weather, your delivered cord should dry out some and make it easier to burn.

If you have a ready supply of dry branches, then you can just burn those all winter. Do like Dok said, get a good fire going and then throw on a not so dry piece of wood - the heat from the fire will dry that wood out and help it to burn hotter.

Start cutting for next year too if you have the space (and it sounds like you do). That way your wood will have the opportunity to season for next year and, because you are the one cutting it, you can control how it is handled and keep it dry (Dok mentioned this as well). Your recently cut wood would probably be good for next season if it is green stuff, but if it was cut from standing dead trees then it may burn well this winter.

As for processing - I should have been more clear on that one. You answered my question tho - you do process your own wood and have the equipment required. That puts you more in the driver's seat as you can control how the wood is handled. Also, when processing your own wood from start to finish you are better able to gauge when it is ready to burn.

If you have more questions then maybe it is best to start your own thread. That way all thread responses will be geared towards answering any questions that you may have. I will look for your thread in the woodburning forum, but (as you can probably tell) I can only offer general suggestions as I have a different situation in that I haul my wood from ± 30 miles away, but it is all dry and well seasoned.

HTH


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## aandabooks (Jan 15, 2008)

I made the mistake last year of burning dimensional pine. We have a woodshop at work that makes our pallets for products. They get 1x4s and such in quantity. Well there is always cutoffs. Brought two large boxes of it home and proceeded to burn it. Creosoted up the chimney. I have a 33 ft. clay lined chimney. 

Buddy of mine at work has been taking boxes of it all winter and putting it in his OWB and it has not been an issue. Being kiln dried I would have thought I was good to go. 

I don't have to worry about burning pine as there is not a single pine tree on the property where I cut wood.

Matt


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## sredlin (Jan 15, 2008)

I take whatever pine I can get if it is free or someone pays me to remove it. I like the smell of it and what I get I mix in with wood with greater density. The only drawback for me is that when bucking and splitting it the sap is kind of a mess but not bad enough to ignore the free fuel.


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## Knotdodger (Jan 15, 2008)

Thanks for the reply's fella's. 

Looking for a stove right now too sit infront of my masonary fireplace. Would really like to try a soapstone. Went to a couple dealers and priced some , think maybee I will get a used stove just too see how well it will work... Then probably a new one some day..... hehe 2 grand or 3 is alot of cash for a working man... Your right ,,, the best wood is free wood... Right on.


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## blis (Jan 16, 2008)

ciscoguy01 said:


> Did anyone realize that evergreens, meaning pine/spruce/firs, are the main source of wood in Alaska??? There's VERY little hardwood, and by that it's only a very small amount of birch and popple. Anybody that says you can't burn has NO clue about wood period. It should be seasoned or at least dried a little, and normally when you burn it you'd want to make sure it's burning hot enough. Ponderosa pine has good very good BTU value, better than birch as a matter of fact and poplar... The entire state of AK can't be wrong, and I think we'd hear about tons of homes burning down from chimney fires up there if it were that much of a problem. Heck, I've always burned anything I could get my hands on. It's heat, isn't that the main idea in it. They make guages for your chimney that will tell you the heat ranges to prevent creosote buildup. If burned alot, a chimney can burn out and it won't hurt anything. The problem arrives when the ceramic lining is broken or cracked, then the creosote will seep out and cause the fire. If you have a good chimney that's cleaned every year, as well as burning hot enough, you can burn anything in your stove. Ignore the people that say different. A million people can't all be wrong...
> 
> eh?



over here pine and SPRUCE are commonly used as firewood, allthou birch is preferred. but pine and spruce are fine for burning, oh, and that creosote point isnt true either since creosote is created when burning without enough air (that is common over there i believe with dampers and forced air furnaces etc..), over here we dont do that and we have no creosote problems...


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## Tesen (Jan 21, 2008)

blis said:


> over here pine and SPRUCE are commonly used as firewood, allthou birch is preferred. but pine and spruce are fine for burning, oh, and that creosote point isnt true either since creosote is created when burning without enough air (that is common over there i believe with dampers and forced air furnaces etc..), over here we dont do that and we have no creosote problems...



Keep it hot, keep the air flowing and you have no problems. This year I am burning a mixture of oak (slab) and red pine. I was really not prepared for this year (equipment failures, i.e. trucks) but all fixed now. The slab wood has been sitting for about a year and one half now, so it burns really well  The pine is a lil unseasoned, but is doing okay in my hotblast, just mix in dry hardwood and load the pine logs around/on top.

This coming season I'll be burning all hardwood, have a little one coming in March and we need to make sure we keep him warm 

Tes


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## max2cam (Jan 21, 2008)

Just to add that I burn lots of jack pine and like it very much. Good easy quick hot fires in the morning to warm up the house FAST.


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## Mikecutstrees (Jan 21, 2008)

*Info from the website I posted previously*

A: You hear all sorts of negative things about softwoods. Some have basis in fact, and some don't. The folks who live here in the Pacific Northwest, and other places where hardwood species don't proliferate, burn softwoods. A lot of Pine, a lot of Alder. I personally try to find as much Birch and Maple as I can, but usually end up burning mostly Douglas Fir. Contrary to popular folklore, we softwood-burners haven't blown ourselves up, and our children don't have webbed toes. Here's some legends you hear about softwoods, and the facts.
1) Softwoods cause more creosote to form in the chimney.
False. The creosote issue is about dryness of the wood more than anything. The high resin (pitch) content of certain Fir species actually gasifies readily, and burns hot and clean. It doesn't "turn into creosote" in the chimney, as some folks would have you believe. HOWEVER: high resin content can slow the seasoning time for the wood, so pitchy wood needs more time in the woodshed before it is dry enough to burn properly. I think people who are used to quick-seasoning hardwoods simply don't give Fir enough time to season, and wind up burning it while its moisture content is too high. Resulting in heavy creosote formation, and the popularity of this urban legend.
2) Softwoods don't have any heat value.
False. Actually, all wood species have about the same heat value, pound for pound. But, if you'll have another look at our fuelwood chart, you'll notice that a cord of hardwood weighs more than a cord of softwood. High-density hardwoods are heavier than low-density softwoods, so a full load in the stove weighs more and has more heat value. This means you have to burn more PIECES of softwood to heat the same area, but you're burning about the same WEIGHT of wood fiber. Admittedly, at a certain point you have to factor in the frequent loading necessary to heat with the bottom-of-the-chart species, and decide if the extra effort is worth it. I mean, you wouldn't want to have to heat your house by burning Balsa wood.
3) Softwoods form a lot of ash.
True, in some cases. Some Fir species have extra-thick bark, which, when burned, leaves a lot of ash behind (sort of like paper does). Many people here in the Northwest who burn Fir, for example, will remove the bark during the splitting & stacking process (the really thick stuff pops right off) so they don't have to shovel their stoves out so frequently.
4) Softwoods burn smokier.
False. In fact, the super-low emissions numbers scored by today's EPA approved woodstoves were all achieved while burning Pine.
5) You can't hold a fire all night with softwoods.
Partially true, due to the same fact discussed in #2 above: when you bank your fire at night, you can't get as many pounds of softwood into your stove as you can hardwood. It takes a tightly-constructed stove with a decent size firebox to go the night on a load of softwood.
6) Softwood burns too hot, and can damage your stove.
Some glimmer of truth here, pertaining specifically to some extra-high-resin Fir woods like Fatwood or Cedar. Due to the high combustibility of wood pitch, these species want to burn HOT and FAST. One trick to compensate for this is to mix these with other species in the same load. Many people simply split them up extra-small and use them as kindling, because they ignite so readily and burn so hot. A third technique is to turn the stove's draft control down a little further than usual to keep the fire under control. This third technique requires some care that you don't turn the draft control down too far and smolder the fire, or excessive creosote formation will result (which is another reason softwoods get the creosote rap discussed in #1 above).


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## Mikecutstrees (Jan 21, 2008)

From chemicals previous post..."How hot a fire is does really NOT matter.

The reason you have a hot fire is to keep the creosote dissolved in the smoke HOT enough so the creosote which is WATER and solid and liquid organics, will NOT condense on the side of your pipe and can be exhausted out the top of the pipe. Having a 'hot fire' does NOT reduce the amount of creosote to any great degree, but moves its condensation stage OUTSIDE your pipe."

I don't really understand this quote chemical.... you say the temp of the fire does not matter but then you contradict yourself by saying that if the fire is hot enough creosote will be exausted out the top of the chiminey. I don't really care about creasote unless it is stuck to the inside of my chimny.... so your just being picky and arguing about points that don't matter. 

"Since we are talking about pine and 'hot' now we can talk about how hot it is not. In the 'good information' thread above is listed the BTU's per cord with pine being only in the 17's while most other woods are in the 20's. That means that no matter what you do with pine and no matter what the airflow, for many that IS NOT HOT ENOUGH to keep the creosote from condensing in the pipe as somebody said. No matter how much air you have you CANNOT get pine to burn any hotter as that is a set equation due to the chemical and physical properties of the pine. The reason you do have more air is so the airflow is FASTER and that faster moving exhaust helps carry more of the dissolved creosote out of the chimney. That does not make the pine nor the fire any hotter no matter what the airflow."... Also from chemical

I think you are confused here too BTU's and the temperature of the burn are two very different things. Two different materials may have the same energy content (BTU) but may burn at different rates giving off their energy at different rates. So a combustible material (such as pine) may burn hot and quick and give off it's energy quickly. Also a given volume of pine (Cord) has less energy than the same volume of other woods (Such as oak, ash, or maple) ,but it doesn't mean that pine does not burn hot.

I think that the pine you have burned was not properly seasoned since pine and other softwoods take longer to season. The problem is you are trying to prove your hypothesis using incorrect and misguided science.


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## blis (Jan 21, 2008)

no matter how you twist and turn it but still here in nordic countries we burn ALOT of pine and spruce, along with white birch (considered best we have here) and yet we dont have creosote problems, unless you can call cleaning your chimney once a year a problem. 

On top of that chimney fires are really rare around here. Our firewood is also seasoned normally a year or two before burning so it isnt that much different neither. And all that happens without the knowledge of btu's, secondary combustion, epa stoves, kilns and stuff... strange isnt it...

ps. we dont even have polarbears :O


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## Mikecutstrees (Jan 21, 2008)

Well I'm dying here..... this is really funny..... you obviously did not understand the words in my post. As to what you said about kiln drying this too is incorrect.... too dry is a problem as well as evidenced by this website ....

Q: We moved my Aunt Alice out of the family homestead a few months ago, and found a couple of cords of alder in the woodshed that must have been there since Uncle George died ten years ago! Thinking I had a real find, I appropriated the wood and have been burning it for the past several weeks. Well, my experience has been disappointing, to say the least: short duration fires, and not much heat. Now don't tell me the problem is wet wood, because after ten years in the woodshed, this stuff is BONE dry. What gives?
A: Sounds like Uncle George's stash has gotten too dry, a condition savvy woodburners in his day used to call "punky."
Wood that has been seasoned for 9-12 months still contains about 20-25% moisture, most of which is wood resins. These resins play an important part in the three stages of wood combustion. During Stage 1, the kindling fire warms up the fresh load of wood and any remaining water content is removed by evaporation and vaporization. As the wood reaches 500 degrees or so (Stage 2), the resins begin to break down chemically, and volatile gases are released which squirt out through the wood fiber and ignite, boosting the temperature of the fire to around 1,100 degrees and producing 50-60% of the heat value from that load of wood. As the gases burn away, the flames finally attack the wood fiber itself (Stage 3), and extract the remaining heat value through the process known as charcoaling.
If your firewood has dried to the point where it has lost its resin content, your fire will go directly from Stage 1 (warming up to combustion temperature) to Stage 3 (charcoaling), skipping Stage 2 and missing out on 50-60% of the heat (and burn time) you'd expect to get from that load of wood. Here's what the US Dept. of Energy website has to say about too-dry fuelwood:
"Some well-seasoned wood can in fact be too dry for today's airtight stoves. If you place wood that is too dry on a bed of coals, it will instantly give up its gases as smoke, wasting unburned smoke and producing creosote buildup."
=====================================================================

Wood burning is not as simple a process as some may think, I personally find peoples experiences here on this forum very interesting and there is alot of useful information here.... that is if you just listen..... And yes if burning pine was so dangerous why do some people burn only softwoods and have no problems at all. Probably because they have been doing it for years and know what they are doing. They may not have a PhD but they are knowledgeable and know what they are doing. :greenchainsaw:


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## Mikecutstrees (Jan 21, 2008)

From chemical....

Remember that air is about 80 percent inert gas and, when introduced into a wood stove, is below the 1100° F needed to sustain secondary combustion. The more air that mixes with the secondary gases, the greater the quantity of heat absorbed by the nitrogen, and the lower the temperature of the secondary gas-air mixture. 

When you speak like this you might be inflating your own ego but your not conveying information well, If you had said....

" Air is colder than your fire and when it gets drawn into the fire it cools the fire and lowers the temperature of the secondary burn"

You would have been much more understandable.....

I don't know why you are on this website trying to prove to all how smart you are but I personally am tired of it. I realize that this is how you get people to stop arguing and it will make you feel as if you are correct, but I'm not going to waste my time with you.


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## blackdeath (Jan 21, 2008)

Hi this is my first post but i feel i have to say something .. I have burnt pine in my stove in my house for the last 20 years and i get very little creosote build up i sweep the chimney once a year and have no problems what so ever.

I have no scientific evidence but it works fir me


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## Mikecutstrees (Jan 21, 2008)

Welcome blackdeath. I'm burning willow, spruce and some funky white birch in my stove right now. Nice and warm although it's going to be 10 F tonight here. Cut a 12" ash that was growing up under a 48" white oak on my back property today .... The oak needed the room and the "youngster" was starting to crowd it.


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## Tesen (Jan 21, 2008)

Perhaps I am tripping here, but lets see my post said:

"Keep it hot, keep the air flowing and you have no problems. This year I am burning a mixture of oak (slab) and red pine. I was really not prepared for this year (equipment failures, i.e. trucks) but all fixed now. The slab wood has been sitting for about a year and one half now, so it burns really well  The pine is a lil unseasoned, but is doing okay in my hotblast, just mix in dry hardwood and load the pine logs around/on top."

So after all the posts from chemical, posts of other people (including me) we have:

1) Keep the airflow going.
2) Keep it hot.
3) keep your flue inspected.
4) Mix in hardwood if you can.

IMHO, if you're a primary heater with wood, you should be able to inspect your own flue at least once a month.

I know people that have heated with just pine for over 20 years with no issues; again keep it hot, keep the air flow going (if you keep it hot enough, and do not suffer from stack effect issues in your house, natural drafting of a hot flue should be all that is needed IMHO, assuming no flue blockage, refer to point 3).

Tes


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## ericjeeper (Jan 21, 2008)

*so.*

If it is written on the Internet it is the gospel?


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## redprospector (Jan 21, 2008)

I don't have a high dollar education like this chemical troll does, I got most of my education from the school of hard knock's.
I figure this guy's just trying to stirr the pot by the tone of his post's. You just can't argue with a guy who think's he's as smart as this guy does. Chemicalanarchy has presented the fact's as he see's it, but remember fact's are subject to change and truth is not. Don't get the two confused.

Here is the truth, plain and simple.
I have been burning pine in stove's and fireplaces for well over 20 year's with no problem. There is verry little hardwood around here, and we would get awfully cold if we followed chemicalanarchy's advice. The main thing to remember when burning softwood's (as with any wood) is to use your head for something besides a hat rack.
Keep your flue clean.
Burn seasoned wood.
Stay warm.

Andy


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## jetskiman (Jan 21, 2008)

chemicalanarchy,
I am a microsoft certified systems engineer but I do not get on computer forums and pick fights with other members you stated your opinion and the others stated thiers if you had a little tact your post would be better recieved.


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## StihltheOne (Jan 21, 2008)

Here is the truth, plain and simple.
I have been burning pine in stove's and fireplaces for well over 20 year's with no problem. There is verry little hardwood around here, and we would get awfully cold if we followed chemicalanarchy's advice. The main thing to remember when burning softwood's (as with any wood) is to use your head for something besides a hat rack.
Keep your flue clean.
Burn seasoned wood.
Stay warm.


Thank You Redprospector


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## PB (Jan 22, 2008)

Knotdodger said:


> I didnt want to search. So the tree crews were cutting alot of pines ,, birch,, and poplar the last week along the road. County property. All the pine is in log form. Birch was just topped and dropped. A few people were out gathering the wood. Still a few semi loads out there.
> 
> I was loading some pine logs in my truck. Then someone next to me says " you going to burn pine??" Its full of creosole.
> 
> ...



I didn't read all of the posts so someone might have said this already. For identification of conifers, flat needles are usually firs or hemlocks. It depends on the white lines underneath the needle and overall length to determine the difference. Spruce needles are triangular and usually short and stiff. When you roll the needle between your fingers you can feel the triangular shape. Spruces and firs also only have one needle in a bunch, while pines have 2 or more. The white pine, I believe your state tree has long needles in bundles of 5. I hope this helps. I highly recommend a Peterson's field guide for trees.


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## Spotted Owl (Jan 22, 2008)

Holy crap.

Stand back we've all just been schooled by one of them thar deee greee holders(spit). 

Isn't this just like the real world, a new fella comes on side and starts tell'in everyone that what they are doing is wrong and dangerous(spit). By gawd I'm sure glad that everything that I have ever known about burn'in and such is all wrong and has never worked at all for our family in the past 30+ yrs(spit). I'm also all happy that one of them thar educated fellas has the starter paper to back up what he says is the by gawd book way to do things, and I'm sure that them papers he has state that his word is the final all knowing Gospel(spit).

Basic burning rules. Burn hot, burn to use fuel wise, burn with common sense and scrub your pipe every now and again.

What is to be said about burning pine. In my uneducated humble nondegree holding opinion, go ahead'oner, hammer down and toss that slab to the coals and keep warm. I have a very tough time believing that one burn will plug your pipe. If for some fantastic degree holding reason it does I have a very simple uneducated answer for your problem. Dry the wood before you burn it.

Chem: 

Ease up stud. In my book your closed to being culled. 

Have you ever seen anything happen, or actually work that could not be backed by science or paper fact, or someone with a degree saying that it would work. Boy I sure have. 

All I am saying is. Ease back, some things do work when the facts prove that it can't/won't work. 

Come in as a friend, not a book smart know it all tring to change tried and proven methods. The worlds been working alot longer than you have been around. All advice given here should be taken for what it was paid for. 

Owl


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## musch (Jan 22, 2008)

Please use the QUOTE button to quote someone else's message!!
That way we can tell what THEY said, and YOUR response.
This is an important and potentially life threatening debate.


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## turnkey4099 (Jan 22, 2008)

chemicalanarchy said:


> Wow!
> 
> There is some very bad and wrong information in here which could be very dangerous!
> 
> ...




You were doing all right up to that. How you get from BTU per cord to how hot a given wood will burn is a puzzle. They have nothing to do with each other. I can get a much hotter fire with pine than I can with black walnut for example but a BTU/cord comparison shows pine being very poor choice due to its light weight.

Yes, you will get less heat total from a cord of pine than a cord of oak but you are ignoring how fast you can generate that heat.

Harry K


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## user 19670 (Jan 22, 2008)

*My limited experience*



Spotted Owl said:


> Holy crap.
> 
> Stand back we've all just been schooled by one of them thar deee greee holders(spit). . .
> 
> ...



I seem to recall that it has been proven mathematically impossible for a bee to fly. They seem to manage quite well just the same.


Anyway, I burn (in order of preference) birch, poplar, spruce, balsam fir and rarely some jackpine.

-- Around here the common knowledge is that birch will creosote your chimney unless you peel the bark off. This may be because when you burn only bark it creates thick black smoke. At the least, peeling the bark aids in drying the wood.
-- Local common knowledge also says that burning tamarack is dangerous and that it will burn out your stove. This may be because those "tin air-tights" were so common in Trapper's cabins around here long ago. They were mighty thin stoves.
-- Local common knowledge also says that burning Jackpine can cause your stove to glow red hot. There may be some merit to this. In the coldest weather (right now it is -30C) I add some dry jackpine to the hardwood in the stove. MAN, does that stuff burn fast and hot! It looks like the fires of He** boiling behind that glass door right now. Good thing the stove is lined with fire brick :jawdrop: 

Our total smokepipe/chimney is 6" x about 12'. It exits the stove and goes straight up, inside the house and is a stainless 2" insulated chimney. The stove burns wide open most days now that I have retired and am available to load during the day.
In the past few years we loaded in the morning, damped it down at the draft and left for work in town. Some 10 hours later we had a nice bed of coals to start the evening fire with.
Used to check the chimney every month and then once every few months, then New Years Day and again at the end of the season. Now, I sweep the chimney only once a year and the only part that has much buildup is the cap.

One thing I believe is that every stove installation has its own personality and you have to learn all over again how to burn it and how long the chimney will last before needing sweeping
Last year we changed from a cheap Canadian Tire air tight, non EPA woodstove to a Regency air-tight, EPA woodstove. Kept the same smokepipe and chimney and yet we had to learn all over again where the sweet spot on the draft setting was. I had heard this but had not believed it until I experienced it.


Most of this thread is good and informative and I appreciate the input as long as it is done in a fair and courteous way


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## Mikecutstrees (Jan 22, 2008)

You were doing all right up to that. How you get from BTU per cord to how hot a given wood will burn is a puzzle. They have nothing to do with each other. I can get a much hotter fire with pine than I can with black walnut for example but a BTU/cord comparison shows pine being very poor choice due to its light weight.

Yes, you will get less heat total from a cord of pine than a cord of oak but you are ignoring how fast you can generate that heat.

Harry K
thats what I said...... And hey I figured out the quote thing.... Guess I'm a little slow... haha

Damn maybe not.....


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## Husky137 (Jan 22, 2008)

Well I have to say that this thread has convinced me that no matter how educated, some people are simply too stupid to burn wood.


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## max2cam (Jan 22, 2008)

chemicalanarchy said:


> AS with the guy who clogged up his pipe on one burn his pine DID NOT BURN HOT ENOUGH to heat up his pipe hot enough. Therefore, the BTU's coming from the pine which are reduced due to sap changing the secondary burn primarily via WATER cooling and then 'more air' as others wrongly suggests clearly demonstrates that HOT ENOUGH is not hot enough with some stoves and pipes and pine.



Clogged his pipe with one burn of pine? The word "impossible" comes to mind, but instead I'll suggest as others have is that his pine was GREEN, WET, and SATURATED with water which you yourself suggest. Dry pine is light and burns wonderfully.



chemicalanarchy said:


> Then you guys get into more dangerous advice which is 'more air'. WRONG! More air COOLS the burn and reduces air flow via the very properties of how a stove works.



Excess air might cool the burn and reduce air flow, but because pine burns so readily, it sucks in lots of oxygen and creates a more perfect, smoke-less combustion with less resulting creosote deposits. That comes from many years of actually burning DRY jack pine and having very little chimney creosote buildup, which I clean out once per year.


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## max2cam (Jan 22, 2008)

blackdeath said:


> Hi this is my first post but i feel i have to say something .. I have burnt pine in my stove in my house for the last 20 years and i get very little creosote build up i sweep the chimney once a year and have no problems what so ever.
> 
> I have no scientific evidence but it works fir me



That has been my exact experience too.

But I can also recall a friend of mine who moved into an old farmhouse, collected white oak that was green and wet and tried heating his home with it. I visited him one time and saw creosote leaking out of his pipe. I mentioned it to him and he shrugged it off. A few weeks later he had a CHIMNEY FIRE which was a very frightening experience. But that was with GREEN hardwood. Dry pine burns fine!


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## max2cam (Jan 22, 2008)

chemicalanarchy said:


> They guy who got creosote buildup used kiln dried pine. Go back and read it.



That don't compute. Kiln dried pine would burn so fast and hot it could turn the stovepipe cherry red!

Maybe this is a case of too many college degrees, theory, and book "larning" flying in the face of actual experience and real world events.


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## Husky137 (Jan 22, 2008)

max2cam said:


> That don't compute. Kiln dried pine would burn so fast and hot it could turn the stovepipe cherry red!



Exactly. Modern stove manufacturers specifically warn against such practices because of the damage the excessive heat causes to the stove. The anarchist seems to be devoid of any real world experience. I would imagine that I have far more book learning than he does as well. I have the degrees to prove it.

I know of several well degreed individuals that believe in alien abductions. I've also met the morons that are prone to chimney fires and have seen what sort of idiot burning practices they employ. Most never touched a stick of pine.


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## Husky137 (Jan 22, 2008)

Wait.... You are right and the rest of us are all wrong. We are probably all jack-booted republican fascists as well.



What do you burn in your woodstove? What kind of stove do you have?


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## jetskiman (Jan 22, 2008)

*not enough draft*

so in your mind we need more draft would that not make my stack into a torch?


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## max2cam (Jan 22, 2008)

chemicalanarchy said:


> BTW all you smart guys, the reason your pipe glows red is because the outflow of exhaust is NOT FAST ENOUGH!
> 
> It is not fast enough and the secondary combustion products are igniting in the pipe! Go back and read what SCP's are and at what temp they burn at!
> 
> RED HOT pipes is a function of the LACK of exhaust resulting in combustion continuing in the pipe and with secondary combustion being at 1000F plus which is what it takes to get a pipe red hot.



But I thought your friend clogged his pipe with ONE BURN of kiln dried pine? What? Clogged and red hot at the same time?


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## LarryTheCableGuy (Jan 22, 2008)

*Ain't killed nobody yet over here...*



chemicalanarchy said:


> You know, you guys think you are so smart with your *rye *comments, but most are fools who are going to get somebody killed!



It's "wry".

BTW, I burn probably twice as much pine (2-3 full cords per season) as I do hardwoods, have never had a clogged stovepipe. I clean my stovepipe once a year and all I get out of it is a small/moderate amount of black soot leaving a nice clean stainless steel pipe.

Maybe that's not possible but it certainly is the reality of the situation...


.


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## LarryTheCableGuy (Jan 22, 2008)

chemicalanarchy said:


> ...but turning around and making carte-blanche recommendations re anybody burning pine in any stove is dangerous...



I did no such thing, I ONLY spoke of my experience.



chemicalanarchy said:


> Please do some reading before you post if you want to imply that I said something which I did not.



Yes, I think that applies to you.

.


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## blis (Jan 22, 2008)

oh my, this has turned into nice little flame war. How exciting...

now, from MY experience in burning PINE and SPRUCE in OPEN fireplace and stone ovens, is that you will get creosote build-up with every single kind of wood incase it *doesnt* get enough *air*. however when burning any kind of *seasoned* wood with enough of air i never have seen excessive creosote buildup nor have i seen anyone got killed by burning softwoods.....

now, please continue. The flames are dancing wildly allready...


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## Tesen (Jan 22, 2008)

chemicalanarchy said:


> Prove it. Show the quote where I said that. I know I did not which makes you a liar. You don't like the answers so you now resort to lying. Interesting.



Oh would you lot give it a rest for crying out loud?


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## Tesen (Jan 22, 2008)

chemicalanarchy said:


> Good post!
> 
> Thank you as the PM you sent me let's me know you agree that yes, you shouldn't let people make blatant lies.
> 
> ...




I am not sure if this is a reply to me since you have not quoted anyone, but If it is, I did not send you a PM and I do not continue to read this forum for the flamewar, I keep reading in hope a sensible discussion of soft wood burning continues, instead of the local egos being stroked.

Tes


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## Tesen (Jan 22, 2008)

chemicalanarchy said:


> What?
> 
> You don't like people making up things you said? 'Give it a rest', to quote you directly.
> 
> ...



Oh my goodness you are such a twit and as you just admitted, you're a liar - kindly go away.


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## cjcocn (Jan 22, 2008)

Okay you guys .... get a grip on yourselves and let's not get too far over the edge here.


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## PB (Jan 22, 2008)

So how 'bout them Patriots.......? Man I think it might be getting a little cold outside, looks like snow too. How about that.


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## Mikecutstrees (Jan 22, 2008)

Its a happier... friendlier place now..... ahhhhhh


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## blackdeath (Jan 22, 2008)

so was the final verdict its safe to burn if you burn it hot mix with hardwood and keep an eye on you chimney or was i totaly wrong for all these years


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## PB (Jan 22, 2008)

blackdeath said:


> so was the final verdict its safe to burn if you burn it hot mix with hardwood and keep an eye on you chimney or was i totaly wrong for all these years



You might be right, you might be wrong, but if it works keep on doing what you have been doing.


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## Husky137 (Jan 22, 2008)

PlantBiologist said:


> So how 'bout them Patriots.......? Man I think it might be getting a little cold outside, looks like snow too. How about that.



Careful not to burn any pine! You might explode...:greenchainsaw:


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## max2cam (Jan 22, 2008)

I just came in from felling, cutting, sledding, splitting, and piling a 50 year old dead sound standing jack pine. 

All the time I was out there I was wondering if I'm signing my own death warrant. Joking yes and no. I've always lived in dread of a chimney fire and so far have been lucky not to have one.


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## cjcocn (Jan 22, 2008)

max2cam said:


> I just came in from felling, cutting, sledding, splitting, and piling a 50 year old dead sound standing jack pine.
> 
> All the time I was out there I was wondering if I'm signing my own death warrant. Joking yes and no. I've always lived in dread of a chimney fire and so far have been lucky not to have one.



If you are mindful of the shape that your chimney is in I don't think that you are even close to putting yourself in danger. My mother is 78 and has always burned wood, either as a child on the farm or in her own home. Up until 13 years ago wood burning was her sole source of heat. All she has ever burned is jack pine (with some spruce from time to time) and over the years has reduced her chimney cleanings to 2 - once at the beginning and once at the end of the wood burning season. Number of chimney fires she has experienced = 0.

The reduction in chimney cleanings is due to the fact that, in her particular situation, more is not better and additional cleanings have netted very little junk coming out of the chimney (very little).

If your chimney is approved for safety and was properly installed, then you can rest easy just by getting up on your roof and having a look-see to see if there is any build-up that should be cleaned out. If circumstances are such that you would rather someone else do it, farm out the job to a qualified sweep and have them perform that task for you.

You could probably find someone qualified to give your system an inspection as well. If everything is good, this will ease your mind. If they identify some potential concerns, you can have those addressed and obtain peace of mind that way.

HTH


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## redprospector (Jan 22, 2008)

chemicalanarchy said:


> Adios xxxxxx



Good riddance!

Andy


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## musch (Jan 23, 2008)

Boy did that go off the rails!
I was enjoying the discussion, and think it is a valuable one, but sure descended in a hurry.  

It seems to me that many people obviously burn pine safely and effectively, but those of us that have woodstoves should ALL consider the risks of a chimney fire.
Is it safe to say that if you have hardwood available, pine should be used sparingly, if at all??

I find the idea of using pine to be more dangerous to start a fire, because of a cold flue, the most interesting one presented, as it does make sense. 

A new question - How often do you guys clean your flue, and how much do you burn??


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## Griffbm3 (Jan 23, 2008)

*He had some points, but WOW...*

Okay, on the front of secondary burns, he was spot on... Glowing red pipes have nothing to do with air in (inlet) but they have everything to do with exhaust out. If you have ever been in a house that was on fire, this would make a lot of sense as the term flashover comes into play. That is why they vent fires in houses, to EXHAUST them. 

But WOW, that got ugly. I did see his point though. I will admit, I burn some pine to get 'er going in the morning. Hardwoods all other times, and I go outside to check on the color and density of the smoke out of the chimney. Maybe that's my OCD kicking in, but I climb a ladder, and knowck the build up off the chimney cap too.

I can talk science all day long, but when I watch the fire in my woodstove, my brain melts. Thank-you for the knowledge, sorry it was bundled up in so much anger... Have a good night everyone.

Jason


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## redprospector (Jan 23, 2008)

musch said:


> Boy did that go off the rails!
> I was enjoying the discussion, and think it is a valuable one, but sure descended in a hurry.
> 
> It seems to me that many people obviously burn pine safely and effectively, but those of us that have woodstoves should ALL consider the risks of a chimney fire.
> ...



That guy is what my dad would have called an educated idiot.
Like I said; I've been burning Pine for well over 20 years with no problems, just use your head. Pine isn't any more dangerous than any other type of wood, sometimes it's the guy feeding the stove that's dangerous.
I clean my flue once a year, and I burn anywhere from 2 to 10 full cords a year depending on how cold it gets. It's been a while since I've had a 10 cord year, lately it's been 5 or 6.

Andy


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## turnkey4099 (Jan 23, 2008)

I did learn one thing about BTUs. I am very obviously delusional about how hot poor wood will burn. I burn almost all willow which is about as low as you can get on the btu/lb scale. Therefore I am wasting my time turning the damper down when I see the stack thermometer pegged. It is obviously impossible and I should just ignore it.

Ooops. I should have labeled that sarcasm.

Harry K


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## Tesen (Jan 23, 2008)

blackdeath said:


> so was the final verdict its safe to burn if you burn it hot mix with hardwood and keep an eye on you chimney or was i totaly wrong for all these years



I think the biggest thing is to check your flue as often as you can; pine provides heat so use it. My personal preference is to try and mix in hardwood with the pine I burn and to keep the flue clean and inspected. I have a 2000 sqr foot 1880's home, so I keep the fire going hot to keep the house up to temp (the flue gas is quite hot, as the blueish tint around the top of my tripple wall suggests ).

Tes


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## Tesen (Jan 23, 2008)

Griffbm3 said:


> But WOW, that got ugly. I did see his point though. I will admit, I burn some pine to get 'er going in the morning. Hardwoods all other times, and I go outside to check on the color and density of the smoke out of the chimney. Maybe that's my OCD kicking in, but I climb a ladder, and knowck the build up off the chimney cap too.




That is not OCD it is common sense; I also check the smoke that is emitted from my flue. If you've had your stove for a while and you rarely change your wood mixture, any differences in exhaust from the flue is notable and obvious, makes one go "hmmmm" and figure out what is going on.

Cleaning the cap and checking that nothing is blocking (you can get ice build up around the cap if you've let the fire go out) is important. If the exhaust cannot flow up the stack, it is going to find the path of least resistance.

Tes


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## max2cam (Jan 23, 2008)

I think that I'll start a chimney fire thread.


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## timberwolf tree (Jan 23, 2008)

i once asked my grandfather if you could burn pine 

all he said was ha.... if its cold enough


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## retired redneck (Jan 23, 2008)

Pine? Isnt That What Caskets Are Made Of Time To Bury This Post


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## ronnyb (Jan 25, 2008)

Burn whatever you want, just make sure the fire is hot. If your stove is running, your furnace isn't.


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