# Oregon PowerSharp



## bsheldon (Feb 12, 2010)

Has anyone used one of these? 

It looks super easy and intriguing.

I am just curious to see how well it works.

Does anyone have any idea of the price of this thing?


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## mtngun (Feb 12, 2010)

I'm not familiar with it. Gotta pic or a link ?


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## bsheldon (Feb 12, 2010)

I saw an ad for it in a trade magazine for home builders.

Apparently Oregon has a website set up just for it. My firewall at work blocks it. I think it is just powersharp.com

It looks like you just clamp it on to the tip of your bar and run the saw--pulling the blade through it--Voila, sharpened blade. Again, it looks like a great idea and appears to be super easy, but I have never personally seen one.


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## mtngun (Feb 12, 2010)

OK, I'd never heard of it before, so thanks for enlightening me. Here's the link.
powersharp

Looks like it only works with PowerSharp bars and powerSharp chains. 

There are no closeup pictures, but the chain looks a little funky. It is only sharpened from the top, and can only be sharpened 5 - 15 times. The sharpening stone must be replaced every time you replace the chain (and if you can only sharpen the chain 15 times, you'll be replacing lots of chains).

It's intended for clueless casual saw users who don't know how to sharpen a chain. It's probably worthwhile for those people. Don't think it will be catching on with serious chainsaw users, though.


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## Fish (Feb 12, 2010)

Old design, came out on various saws, including Sears, Ropers, etc.
The stone was in the sprocket cover on those, amazed that they are reviving it.

Oregon Engineer!!!!!!

Where are you??????



Everyone, click your heels and say Intenz, Intenz, Intenz................


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## bsheldon (Feb 12, 2010)

Ok, cool. So, it is just a easy, convenient consumer grade product for Johnny Suburbia.

Nothing anyone who actually cuts any decent amount of wood is going to want or need.


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## Edge & Engine (Feb 12, 2010)

It's a new system that Oregon just launched. Definitely aimed toward the homeowner-type chainsaw user.


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## gee_dubya75 (Feb 12, 2010)

Here's a youtube video for PowerSharp

<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/e-yFaKkkF-U&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/e-yFaKkkF-U&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>


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## Philbert (Feb 12, 2010)

Fish said:


> Old design, came out on various saws, including Sears, Ropers, etc. The stone was in the sprocket cover on those



That's what I had on an older Craftsman. There was a stone mounted in a spring-loaded button that you pushed on occasionally, similar to operating a manual oiler. I replaced it with a conventional chain and pulled the stone on the advice of a shop.

This appears to be a totaly re-designed system (thanks gee_dubya75 and mtngun for those links. WOW! Oregon has redesigned their entire website!). Requires a specific PowerSharp chain and guidebar. Looks easy to use, like those electric kitchen knife sharpeners. Could be helpful for an occasional use/homeowner/WildThing owner type who isn't real good with chain maintenance.

Slip the sharpener over the tip of the bar. Run the saw at full throttle. Push the bar forward into the shaped stone. Pretty easy if it works.

The chain is _very_ different and I don't know how it cuts compared to the stuff we are used to. It is filed on the TOP of the top plate. I don't know how the side plate is filed (or if there is no side plate edge). The special chain also has a diamond impregnated dressing link to condition the PowerSharp stone (stone gets replaced with each chain).

Philbert

_(EDIT - trying to replace original links and photos that were lost. These should be close if not exactly the same)_

http://powersharp.com/default_flash.asp


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## JohnL (Feb 12, 2010)

That's some weird ass shizernit right there.


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## Harzack223 (Feb 12, 2010)

JohnL said:


> That's some weird ass shizernit right there.



haha you said it


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## Hddnis (Feb 12, 2010)

Only drawback I can see is short useful life of the chain due to limited cutter size, meaning fewer shapenings per chain. I can see where the simplicity and speed of it will have professionals taking a hard look at it. Increased component cost might be offset by increased productivity.

I'd give it a try, just to learn about it.


Mr. HE


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## nassin2 (Feb 12, 2010)

Man, by the looks of those teeth on the chain, it must chew a hell of a cerf through whatever you're cutting.


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## Philbert (Feb 12, 2010)

Hddnis said:


> I'd give it a try, just to learn about it.



I am sure that everyone on this site would like to hear feedback from an experienced user, compared to 'regular' 3/8" low profile chain. I am sure that you would still be able to use the bar with regular chain if you did not like the chain.

Philbert


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## PowerSharp Eng (Feb 15, 2010)

bsheldon said:


> Has anyone used one of these?
> 
> It looks super easy and intriguing.
> 
> ...


.................................................................

Hi Bsheldon,

The sharpener only works with the PowerSharp® bars and chains.

The PowerSharp® Chain cutting performance and amount of wood it can cut is the same as OREGON® 91 VG, a 3/8 pitch low profile chain.

The stone is designed to last as long and the chain. The actual stone is thicker than shown in the picture.

The PowerSharp sharpening system is directed towards the 3/8 low profile chain users but fast sharpening will entice other users to give a try.


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## Hddnis (Feb 15, 2010)

Philbert said:


> I am sure that everyone on this site would like to hear feedback from an experienced user, compared to 'regular' 3/8" low profile chain. I am sure that you would still be able to use the bar with regular chain if you did not like the chain.
> 
> Philbert





I'll be sure and share my thoughts on it. Right now I'm still trying for find a place that sells it. So far I've struck out at HD, Lowes, and two local hardware stores. 


Mr. HE


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## Fish (Feb 15, 2010)

I will see if I can get one.

Oregon Engineer, is this your little brother????


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## flushcut (Feb 15, 2010)

Ever wonder why files have been around for so long? I am sure the regular 3/8 lo-pro users will be all over that one


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## Philbert (Feb 15, 2010)

PowerSharp Eng said:


> The sharpener only works with the PowerSharp® bars and chains.
> The PowerSharp® Chain cutting performance and amount of wood it can cut is the same as OREGON® 91 VG, a 3/8 pitch low profile chain.



Welcome to A.S.!

So does this chain only have a single (angled top plate) edge as it appears from the photos?

What about that leading tip - how critical is that to smooth cutting if it gets chipped?

Thanks.

Philbert


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## PowerSharp Eng (Feb 15, 2010)

Fish,
I love your classic humor on the last line of your first post!!!! OE said you would have a witty response when PowerSharp® first hit this forum.

You are correct, the general top sharp concept goes back to the late 1950’s and came to an end in the early 1980’s. Those chains could be sharpened a few times and then the cutting performance decreased because the chain created a poorly shaped groove in the stone. That poorly shaped groove rounded the cutting points, got worse with each sharpening, and was a fatal flaw in the sharpening system. There were all kinds of work arounds to the poor groove shape but nothing really worked through the life of the chain.

Why revive that general chain design??? A sharpened chain in less than ten seconds. 

To overcome the poorly shaped groove we added diamond coated dresser links to the chain. Just like you use a diamond dresser to shape your grinding wheel, we use a diamond coated dresser link to dress the stone. Every pass of all the cutters by the stone is followed by a pass from a pair of diamond dresser links to keep the right groove shape.

The product will become available to servicing dealers likely late May or early June.


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## Fish (Feb 15, 2010)

So how do you field test something like this?

You actually should bring in an actual redneck to try it and see how it fares.

So you can see how the majority will find it.

BTW, what happened with that "Silver Streak" fiasco?


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## Saw Dr. (Feb 15, 2010)

PowerSharp Eng said:


> Fish,
> I love your classic humor on the last line of your first post!!!! OE said you would have a witty response when PowerSharp® first hit this forum.
> 
> You are correct, the general top sharp concept goes back to the late 1950’s and came to an end in the early 1980’s. Those chains could be sharpened a few times and then the cutting performance decreased because the chain created a poorly shaped groove in the stone. That poorly shaped groove rounded the cutting points, got worse with each sharpening, and was a fatal flaw in the sharpening system. There were all kinds of work arounds to the poor groove shape but nothing really worked through the life of the chain.
> ...




So what is it going to cost? How does the price of the stones compare to that of traditional files?


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## howellhandmade (Feb 15, 2010)

bsheldon said:


> Has anyone used one of these?
> 
> It looks super easy and intriguing.
> 
> ...



Your first post, welcome! Convenient for your inquiry that PowerSharp Eng joined a couple of weeks ago -- it's his first post, too.

Jac


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## LogLogLog (Feb 15, 2010)

howellhandmade said:


> Your first post, welcome! Convenient for your inquiry that PowerSharp Eng joined a couple of weeks ago -- it's his first post, too.
> 
> Jac



I'm new too, and was curious about it.. But instead of posting up, I searched last week and only found posts about the old on-saw systems of the past.

I'm wondering about the retail, and if Joe Consumer will be willing to outlay $$ to put the system on his $129 Wild Thing..


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## mtngun (Feb 15, 2010)

> Your first post, welcome! Convenient for your inquiry that PowerSharp Eng joined a couple of weeks ago -- it's his first post, too.


 :hmm3grin2orange:


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## LogLogLog (Feb 15, 2010)

mtngun said:


> :hmm3grin2orange:



I saw what hhm was fishing for, that's why I thought I should raise my hand and mention my interest as well, even if this thread is a well placed viral promo.

Anyone have a retail?


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## Oregon Engineer (Feb 15, 2010)

Fish said:


> I will see if I can get one.
> 
> Oregon Engineer, is this your little brother????



Fish
Powersharp Engineer is not my little brother, but I do have baby pictures of him. You can trust him, he's smart enough to not make a move without checking with me first.

Oregon Engineer


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## Trigger Man (Feb 15, 2010)

Can you only sharpen the chain with that do-hickie on the end or can you use a file to?
So every time you use a new chain, you have to get a new stone, thats wastefull, does the stone come with the chain?


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## howellhandmade (Feb 16, 2010)

LogLogLog said:


> I saw what hhm was fishing for, that's why I thought I should raise my hand and mention my interest as well, even if this thread is a well placed viral promo.
> 
> Anyone have a retail?



It is not immediately apparent to me how the geometry of this new self-sharpening chain will cut any better than the old auto-sharp system, or, be more accurate, how it will avoid cutting considerably worse than conventional chain. Conventional tooth geometry depends on, among other things, the edge exposure generated by the proper adjustment of the rakers, or depth gauges. How any edge exposure will be generated with the sharpening stone making the cutting edge and the raker effectively the same height is not explained. What effect that honkin' big stone dresser being dragged through the cut isn't explained either.

What is immediately apparent is the lack of relevance the promotional video has to a typical user on this forum. Premise: it is difficult to get a sharp chain by filing (show a pair of hands feebly and ineptly trying to use a file, infomercial style). That may be true for the inept, but it's not true of an experienced user. It's relatively easy to get a truly sharp chain, if you know what you're doing. If you don't, the video may look real. The video implies that the only way you'll get your chain sharpened with a grinder is to take it to a shop. Those of us with grinders know that isn't true, either.

The video mourns the tendency of chains to become dull by contact with the ground, and shows the user dutifully and repeatedly chewing into the ground, even on logs that are clearly small enough to move. Most of us know not to do that, but the real issue is that if you really do saw into the ground you're likely to have a rocked chain that -- well, let's just say that the 3-5 second sharpening estimate is optimistic.

Dubious geometry, whose performance versus traditional chain is unproven, straw man difficulties purportedly solved, sketchy information, no price . . . hmmm, doesn't look good. Retail? If it becomes a real product, it will be at Lowes. Lowes is Oregon's big box partner (HD switched to their own stuff), the target market for this sort of thing shops at big boxes, and Lowes website does not mention it. I could be wrong, but it looks like a trial balloon to me, not a product that is currently on the market. And the insertion here was clumsy.

Good luck, lads.

Jack


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## Gologit (Feb 16, 2010)

Look at it this way...the more homeowners that buy this gadget, the less "how do I sharpen my saw" threads on AS. Definitely a good thing.


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## Modifiedmark (Feb 16, 2010)

Funny after all these years there trying it again. The first stuff was a joke. 

One thing is for sure, there are alot of people who cannot file a chain, alot of them even on these forums. Look at all the grinders being sold and half can't run them properly either. 

If this new system is even halfway respectable, then Oregon is going to make alot of money off of this setup this time.


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## mtngun (Feb 16, 2010)

howellhandmade said:


> shows the user dutifully and repeatedly chewing into the ground, even on logs that are clearly small enough to move.



Sounds like the typical casual saw owner. 

It won't appeal to the AS crowd, but I betcha Oregon sells more chain to homeowner types than to guys like us.


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## Justsaws (Feb 16, 2010)

Mount the diamonds to the sharpener and hook the folks up with some carbide cutters.


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## nanuk (Feb 16, 2010)

*the "Slap Chop" of the chainsaw world!*

Hey Vince... er... PowerSharp Eng
it sounds like this will be marketed at box stores, sold by ignorant salespersons, to ignorant shoppers.

I can see the technology of the unit
And the Consumables market looks ripe.

imagine... How many Joe Q Homeowners are going to drive this unit into the ground to sharpen, vice a nice light touch... shorten the cutting ability by lowering cutter height, but not lowering rakers.

Joe comes back to "BBS" to get another setup prematurely Cause of a heavy hand makes for very short life/poor performance.

and Joe won't know that the saw that came with this, can be retrofitted with standard cutting equipment. *Unless the sprocket is also proprietary!*

$$$$$$$ All the way to the bankl 

Real shrewd mang


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## rxe (Feb 16, 2010)

> Look at it this way...the more homeowners that buy this gadget, the less "how do I sharpen my saw" threads on AS. Definitely a good thing.



Exactly. This will be fantastic for people who simply view a chainsaw as a tool for cutting wood. The sort of people who can't understand why you might have more than one chain, the sort of people who saw dirt and wonder why their saw is now "rubbish", the sort of people who only have one saw. Yes, I know it hurts us to think of people like this, but they exist. 

It isn't for me. If I decided to go down this route, I'd need to buy about 20 guide bars, half a mile of chain and I'd want it in 404, 3/8, .325, 3/8 picco etc....
Easier and cheaper to file. Having seen a pro file....I'd guess for the average small bar, filing would be just as quick, and the file fits in your back pocket.


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## belgian (Feb 16, 2010)

rxe said:


> Yes, I know it hurts us to think of people like this, but they exist.
> 
> .




They do exist indeed, and you are looking maybe at 80% of the saw market. :agree2:


Hey OE, good to see you back ! We could use some good technical info on chain manufactering, but I suppose your hands might te tied...


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## BigE (Feb 16, 2010)

nanuk said:


> imagine... How many Joe Q Homeowners are going to drive this unit into the ground to sharpen, vice a nice light touch... shorten the cutting ability by lowering cutter height, but not lowering rakers.



I don't disagree that this is likely a gimmick (no way it can get the saw as sharp as a good file and a steady hand), but according to the literature, the stone takes down the rakers as well. I'm thinking it has something to do with sharpening on the round tip vs. on the flat part of the blade.

I can also see joe homeowner thinking if 3-5 seconds is good, 20-30 is better! They'll be going through the chains like crazy! lol

I do know I'll probably get one of these for my father-in-law. His chains are always dull, and I don't always bring my sharpening kit when I visit. Lowes has a very good return policy, so if it doesn't work, back it goes.


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## Philbert (Feb 16, 2010)

If it works, it does not have to be as good as a professionally filed chain. It might be an option for the user with limited sharpening skills (or interest) compared to a chronically dull chain. Again, _IF_ it works, the convenience factor would be hard to beat for some.

As for chain life, it reminds me of other situations where we have taken disposable blades for granted (razors, utility knives, planer blades, etc.). I'm sure that old timers scoffed that these were only for guys who did not know how to sharpen. Some guys buy really expensive paint brushes, clean them carefully and keep them for years; others buy cheap ones and toss them after each use.

Maybe PSE will make some demo units available for evaluation and feedback?

Philbert


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## Fish (Feb 16, 2010)

Philbert said:


> Maybe PSE will make some demo units available for evaluation and feedback?
> 
> Philbert



Only if you consider this as "holy"...........................


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## Fish (Feb 16, 2010)

*OOOOpsss. Forgot the pic!!!!*

The Holy Grail!!!!!!


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## Philbert (Feb 16, 2010)

Fish,

A.S. members have been commenting on your 'ugly mug' for some time now - thanks for finally posting a photo! 

(Philbert)


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## Hddnis (Feb 16, 2010)

It may fall flat. It may work. 

You can't honestly argue with the convenience aspect. They say they took a look at the old system and worked the bugs out of this one. It would be great if they did. 

We all like to complain about jobs going overseas. Well, here is a company that makes chain in the USA and they are developing new technology. Now we mock them and accuse them of running a dishonest scheme to rob people. Now you know why it seems companies are just as happy to move overseas, where they still value innovation.

Guess we'll all know by the end of the year after some people have tried it.

I'm going to set up one of my climbing saws with it and one of my brush saws. The climbing saws rarely hit anything other than clean wood. The brush saws get used to clean fence lines and right of ways and they hit rocks, dirty wood, wire and other junk all the time. It should be a fair look at what I can expect from the chain.

I also wonder about the potential as a racing chain. Have you noticed the similarities it has with a race chain?



Mr. HE


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## strokersix (Feb 16, 2010)

From what I understand from OREGON, is that the kit (bar, chain & sharpener) will be available sometime in March 2010.

They said that it utilizes a 3/8" low-profile chain (smaller saws) and that they are trying to keep the kits under $100, and will be able to be purchased at the box stores. Then when you do need a new chain after you buy the kit, you will be able to purchase a chain/sharpener kit (no bar), for less.

Pretty much designed for the home owner with a smaller saw that uses it once in a great while.


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## B_Turner (Feb 16, 2010)

Justsaws said:


> Mount the diamonds to the sharpener and hook the folks up with some carbide cutters.



I like that idea better, except that carbide is brittle.


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## PowerSharp Eng (Feb 16, 2010)

I’ve been quietly reading threads for many years and know you guys are skeptical with products aimed at the novice to intermediate saw operator. That’s why I joined the site just before the advertisements started. I knew there would be a lot of questions on the technical side. I’m here to address the technical questions and listen to people who use the sharpener.

Bsheldon was not a straw man to start a promotional thread on PowerSharp®, he read the ad on PowerSharp® and came to you for answers. I knew someone would see the ads and bring it to this forum.

Here are some answers to questions I’ve read:

The chain and sharpener is targeted at the novice to intermediate saw operators.

The depth gauge is lowered at the same time as the top plate is lowered. Sharpening on the bar nose and the specialized design of the chain allows this to occur at the same time. The same concept was used on the chains from the 1960’s.

We expect the sharpener to be available to servicing dealers late May or early June. I don’t know the price they will be charging.

Replacement chain will be sold with a stone in the same package. The stone and chain are designed to wear out at the same time. The stone is twice plus thicker and much higher quality than the old stones. The old systems took two or three stones to grind down one chain. The old stones had to be thinner to reduce the poorly shaped groove that is created by the chain. The diamond coated dresser link creates a proper groove shape so the stone is much thicker than the old systems.

Philbert, Yes the top plate has a single angle like shown in the photos. 

Fish, field testing was done with a mixture of people who had little to no experience with chain saws. Logs were all on the ground when they were bucked up. 

Trigger Man, the chain can only be sharpened with the bar mounted sharpener. We are not offering a file guide for this chain.

Howellhandmade, I see by your list of saws that you’ve spent and spend a lot of time cutting so you’ve learned to file chains properly and keep the chain out of the dirt so you file less. What seems easy to you is impossible for the guy that cuts only 1 or 2 hours a year. Dull chain is the biggest reason saws, yes the entire saw, is returned by the novice users. PowerSharp is designed to help those guys cut with a good cutting chain the whole time. 

Nanuk, The rakers are lowered at the same time the cutter height is lowered. The design of the cutter top plate and raker allow them to be at the same height on the bar nose but yet have the rakers lower when on the straight bar rails.


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## dingeryote (Feb 16, 2010)

The only thing missing from the video is Vince the Sham Wow guy in a blue or Red Vest, Holding a Wildthingy and shouting about his nuts...

I can't wait to hear the stories from the saw shops about homeowners that ignorantly shove thier regular chain into the sharpener gizzie.

I hope it's a GREAT Success.


Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## Fish (Feb 16, 2010)

Watching and quoting Bruce at the moment.....

"boards don't hit back".........

I fully appreciate your stand here, it is a damn good idea.

Well maybe. Your new product sounds expensive, what is the target?

Poulan or Husqvarna?
Will it automatically add $50 to the price of the saw? More?


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## Urbicide (Feb 16, 2010)

dingeryote said:


> The only thing missing from the video is Vince the Sham Wow guy in a blue or Red Vest, Holding a Wildthingy and shouting about his nuts...
> 
> I can't wait to hear the stories from the saw shops about homeowners that ignorantly shove their regular chain into the sharpener gizzie.
> 
> ...



Hey, let's leave my nuts out of this discussion. Getting a little too personal around here. Besides , I only own a black vest.:greenchainsaw:


Vince


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## dingeryote (Feb 16, 2010)

Urbicide said:


> Hey, let's leave my nuts out of this discussion. Getting a little too personal around here. Besides , I only own a black vest.:greenchainsaw:
> 
> 
> Vince











You're RIGHT!

No vest!:monkey:

LOL!!

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## howellhandmade (Feb 16, 2010)

PowerSharp Eng said:


> SNIP
> Nanuk, The rakers are lowered at the same time the cutter height is lowered. The design of the cutter top plate and raker allow them to be at the same height on the bar nose but yet have the rakers lower when on the straight bar rails.



Trying to visualize this. Let's say the cutter edge is close as possible to the radius of the tip sprocket. The raker is offset from the radius. Now when the link straightens out the raker is lower. I guess. But is not the top "plate" now curved slightly, taking back at least some of that difference? I understand that its performance does not have to be equal to a properly filed conventional chain, only better than a rocked/unsharpened conventional chain, but the video kind of seems to claim it's just as good.

PowerSharp Eng, do us a favor and send one to ModifiedMark. I'll listen to him. 

Jack


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## PowerSharp Eng (Feb 17, 2010)

Howellhandmade, I see the skepticism for the effectiveness of the PowerSharp® sharpener revolves around understanding the raker can be at the same height as the cutting edge when going around the bar nose and yet be lower than the cutting edge on the flat of the bar rails. 

The best way to understand it is to see it. The figure is from an old patent on top sharp chains that I’ve modified to help explain. 

The curved line #171 represents the sharpening stone radius as the cutter is sharpened while is rounds the bar nose. 

Notice the top of the cutting edge #130 and the top of the raker #148 are both on the sharpening stone #171. Both get ground down the same amount as the chain is pushed into the stone. 

I’ve added a horizontal red line from the top of the raker towards the cutting edge. The horizontal red line shows how much lower the raker is than the cutting edge when the cutter is on the flat of the bar rail. The specialized cutter design allows for this effect. I hope this helps clear up the skepticism about sharpening on the bar nose and having an effective cutting chain.


Dingeryote, Shoving a regular chain into the sharpener was a big concern for us. To reduce that problem we pack the chain and stone together. There is no stone in the sharpener until the user opens the stone and chain pack. 


Fish, the product is coming to the OREGON® servicing dealer group first. I don’t know what pricing will be. Nothing has been announced regarding other sales avenues.


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## B_Turner (Feb 17, 2010)

Makes me think for some reason about folks that try to sharpen their bandsaw blades by running them backwards against a stone.

Suffice to say I am skeptical for a number of reasons that it will provide efficient wood cutting but:

1) I applaud Oregon's nerve to try it (who knows, I might be wrong)

2) Some homeowners have absolutely no ability/concept on chain sharpening and it might give them something that at least cuts a little (as compared to what they are actually trying to cut with now)

But I am glad I don't have any part in the customer support effort in regard to the new system. Seems like it will be a real headache for a while.

Edit: In thinking about it, this system might possibly be better suited to cutting a non wood material (non fibrous)


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## dingeryote (Feb 17, 2010)

"Dingeryote, Shoving a regular chain into the sharpener was a big concern for us. To reduce that problem we pack the chain and stone together. There is no stone in the sharpener until the user opens the stone and chain pack. "

PSE,

That's a good thing, and will work for most. But ya just know some guy is GONNA try it. LOL!!

Ya can't stop stupid, as it has it's own momentum.

Any word on if your sales guys have linked up with some of the Saw makers to have the bar and chain installed from the factory on homeowner saws?
It would make sense as a combo.

Good luck with this enterprise!

Who knows what it could lead to.


Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## belgian (Feb 17, 2010)

PowerSharp Eng said:


> [
> 
> Dingeryote, Shoving a regular chain into the sharpener was a big concern for us. To reduce that problem we pack the chain and stone together. There is no stone in the sharpener until the user opens the stone and chain pack.



As Dingeryote rightly mentioned, someone is going to make a try, maybe unknowingly. But I suppose you have verified this already...:hmm3grin2orange:

I don't see an immediate safety problem, but the regular chain will probably be ruined (by grinding away the back of the tooth) if you stick in in the sharpener. 

I also notice that the tooth cutting edge will be very sharp (looks like a hook), compared to the regular chain. This may reduce cycle time and require sharpening more often... what's the chain lifetime compared to a regular chain, provided the same circumstances ?


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## PowerSharp Eng (Feb 18, 2010)

belgian said:


> I also notice that the tooth cutting edge will be very sharp (looks like a hook), compared to the regular chain. This may reduce cycle time and require sharpening more often... what's the chain lifetime compared to a regular chain, provided the same circumstances ?



We placed 91VG and Powersharp chains in the hands of operators with little or no experience in using a chain saw. They were buck cutting with the logs on the ground. We compared the number of cuts they were able to complete with each chain until the chains were filed or ground to end of life. In each case an operator was able to make about the same number of cuts with the 91VG and PowerSharp chains. The total amount varied from operator to operator because of their cutting techniques. Those operators that made a trench in the dirt with each bucking cut did not cut nearly as much as the operators that kept the chain out of the dirt.

But as the product gets into the hands of a large user base, we are wondering if the ease of sharpening will cause some operators to "Fear No Dirt". That attitude will cause them to sharpen more often than they otherwise would.


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## mtngun (Feb 18, 2010)

PowerSharp Eng said:


> we are *wondering* if the ease of sharpening will cause some operators to "Fear No Dirt". That attitude will cause them to sharpen more often than they otherwise would.


"wondering" or "_HOPING_" they will sharpen more often ?.:hmm3grin2orange:

In any event, thanks for the detailed picture of the cutter and raker. The technology is interesting.


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## landyboy (Feb 18, 2010)

Dont know if there are plans to market it here, but the few people in general who run cheap saws for firewood have absolutely no concept of maintaining a sharp chain. They simply replace it or have a shop do it for 2/3 the cost of a new chain.
Their idea of dull is far more than i would consider dull.

I think it is a good idea for the homeowner who cuts small amounts and will see the simplicity of the system.
I would deffinately recomend it to the couple of guys i know who cut a bit of firewood. It will save me the bother of trying to explain file guides, angles,importance of a sharp chain, and stop me being asked to sharpen chains
Casual users dig trenches regularly. The fact that they can hook up this device easily to get an edge will in their eyes be far superior to replacing a dull chain. So what if they over do it, or only get a few sharpens out of a chain. It will save them money and take away a big unknown to them.

Good idea and i hope it works out.


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## PowerSharp Eng (Feb 21, 2010)

landyboy said:


> Dont know if there are plans to market it here, .....




Yes, the PowerSharp sharpening system will be in Europe sometime this summer.


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## kevin j (Feb 21, 2010)

Nice diagram. So, with the raker behind the pivot point of the pins, it swings outward more on the curve, sort of like a safety bumper link does. The amount of overhang and the radius of the curve at the nose tip determines how much the depth gauge/raker swing out and thus how far it is cut below the tooth.

Like most here, I wouldn't touch it, but I have several names and faces that I could see applicable. If they only use a chain or two a year, having it sort of sharp is way better then always dull.

One concern I have is safety. 
May have been addressed earlier. Does this stay on the bar always, which would be a pain and wipe out a lot of bar length. Or do you stick the bar into a free standing device and spin the chain, then pull the bar out and go back cutting, leaving the device alone?


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## PowerSharp Eng (Feb 22, 2010)

kevin j;2052004.........One concern I have is safety.
May have been addressed earlier. Does this stay on the bar always said:


> Page one of this thread shows a youtube video and pictures of how the sharpener housing clamps to the bar nose, only when sharpening.
> 
> There are two pins on one housing of the sharpener that are inserted into two holes in the bar. The other housing is swung into location and the two housings clamped together with lever. The saw is started and brought to full throttle. The sharpener is pushed against a log or other solid object until sparks are present. Once the sharpening is complete the saw is shut off and the sharpener is removed before cutting.


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## kevin j (Feb 22, 2010)

tks PSE, I can't load videos at all on my links, due to speeds at home and filters at work.
Probably could file a small bar in the same amount of time, but I can see a target market. Will be interesting to see how it pans out. 
kcj


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## Rob D (Feb 27, 2010)

I think this system could be good for me for cutting firewood in gritty wet conditions. I'd prob just have the one saw running it...

Good to see new stuff like this coming out though.

You can't really knock it until you've tried it!


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## Fish (Feb 27, 2010)

Here is a pic of an old catalog of the old Powersharp chain, it was available 
up to a few years back.


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## Rob D (Feb 28, 2010)

I know it's based on the old system but hopefully they must have done some good improvements in order to put it back on the market.

Time will tell...!


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## PowerSharp Eng (Mar 1, 2010)

Fish, Thanks for showing the old cutter design. That is the cutter shape that a lot of people have tried.

If you compare the cutter design of the cutter in the catalog to the picture above there is one very glaring difference. The cutter gullet of the new PowerSharp is opened way up to provide good chip flow. The old design cutter has very little room for the chips.


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## nanuk (Mar 1, 2010)

*the more I think about this, the more merit it has...*

And let us be clear, I don't think it was ever planned for the Pro market.

But for a low use homeowner to do a bit of limbing or clean up, it does seem to fit the bill just fine.

as for getting a chain commercially sharpened? in my home town, that is not possible. So the purchase of multiple chains is the norm, and as we all know, not everyone can file a chain. 

One thing I did notice, it does not sharpen the side of the cutter. When I peruse the "Sharpening" subforum, that seems to come up on occasion as an important part of sharpening. Is this really an issue?


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## PowerSharp Eng (Mar 1, 2010)

nanuk said:


> One thing I did notice, it does not sharpen the side of the cutter. When I peruse the "Sharpening" subforum, that seems to come up on occasion as an important part of sharpening. Is this really an issue?




The PowerSharp system does not directly sharpen the side of the cutter, but it does so indirectly.

When a standard chain cutter is sharpened the cutting edge moves rearward to expose undamaged top and side plate material to create the top cuting edge and side cutting edge.


When a PowerSharp cutter is sharpened the cutting edge moves downward to expose undamaged material for the top and side plate cutting edges.

In both designs the side part of the cutter is sharpened as the top is sharpened.


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## mustangwagz (Mar 1, 2010)

*I'm With this guy!!*



howellhandmade said:


> It is not immediately apparent to me how the geometry of this new self-sharpening chain will cut any better than the old auto-sharp system, or, be more accurate, how it will avoid cutting considerably worse than conventional chain. Conventional tooth geometry depends on, among other things, the edge exposure generated by the proper adjustment of the rakers, or depth gauges. How any edge exposure will be generated with the sharpening stone making the cutting edge and the raker effectively the same height is not explained. What effect that honkin' big stone dresser being dragged through the cut isn't explained either.
> 
> What is immediately apparent is the lack of relevance the promotional video has to a typical user on this forum. Premise: it is difficult to get a sharp chain by filing (show a pair of hands feebly and ineptly trying to use a file, infomercial style). That may be true for the inept, but it's not true of an experienced user. It's relatively easy to get a truly sharp chain, if you know what you're doing. If you don't, the video may look real. The video implies that the only way you'll get your chain sharpened with a grinder is to take it to a shop. Those of us with grinders know that isn't true, either.
> 
> ...




Welllll said. Yah this whole new chain, new stone, etc etc sounds a little wack to me. Ok so your lookin at like (estimating..) atleast 20 bucks for this chain, then you need a stone as well..so how much are those?.. (sharpening stone or Tru-ing stone is atleast another 10 depending on what ya buy..) so there's 30 bucks. Ok so 30 bucks on chain and stone.. Now you need a bar as well.. so lets say another 20? So 50 bucks so far. Yah i'm good. They did away with the powersharp back in the olden days but yes i know, supposedly found a better way to keep stone in the shape it needs to be in but still. For those of us who cut on a daily basis..i'm stick with files. i SUCKED at sharpening chains (capitalized that for a reason..) but i've gotten WAY WAY WAY better now. just from talkin to ppl on here at with my neighbor who logs for a living. SO back to my 50 dollar total. Ok, here, ive got the conveineince of the amish just up the road. So, 5 bucks in gas to go see the quakers, 11 bucks for a Brand new Oregon Chain (full chisel or not withoug the skip a links or with..you chose) and files at 95 Cents a piece.. imma stick with the quaker mode. ya i kno imma complainer but 50 bucks is 50 bucks now a days in this world. Thats IF it even costs this much. I aint done no research, just started rambling. For the city folk that need to clean the hedges, yah..it'll prolly work for they're occasional trimming. (prolly end up buyin there 300 dollar saw off craigslist for 50 bucks to cuz its gummed up and wont run so they buy a new one..again..) but hey thats fine! lol thats how us other "daily Cutters" get our saws cheap and then post em on A.S. and brag! lol Its a big viscious cycle but i love it!!!! (i cant spell incase any of yinz are wanding, wellll, big words anyhow. lol) So at the end of the day..ill be in the garage, Jammin WDVE (pittsburgh Rock station) with a file in my hand makin shavings and wiatin for the next day to arrive so i can wake up the neighborhood at 6 with the smell and sound of 2 strokes Screamin through the valley! (psshhhh...who needs roosters when im around!) :-D Muhahaha! 

.


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## amateur cutter (Mar 1, 2010)

kevin j said:


> tks PSE, I can't load videos at all on my links, due to speeds at home and filters at work.
> Probably could file a small bar in the same amount of time, but I can see a target market. Will be interesting to see how it pans out.
> kcj



If you can file the chains these homeowners are trenching with in the same amount of time the power sharp system will do it in I will pay to learn from you.
:jawdrop: I think some of these "casual users" are trenching in pex with their saws. LOL I agree that a good man with a file can sharpen a chain pretty quickly. I'm not all that good, but I can get my chains pretty sharp in a few minutes, but I'd hate to try some of the chains described by OE. I'm thinking if this system works halfway decent it's gonna save a lot of saws & bars from gettin smoked by people that haven't got any idea what a sharp chain is. May even save some injuries by people that get frustrated with a saw that won't cut & start doing dangerous things. Good luck with the new system

A C


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## howellhandmade (Mar 2, 2010)

Reading the repost above, I have to confess that my initial reaction was colored by irritation. When the first post by a new member (who still has not posted on another topic) was answered by the first post by another new member (who also has not posted on any other topic) it seemed a rather transparent alternative to taking out a sponsorship. But PSE says that the OP was not a shill, and I accept that. Having seen the explanation of the cutter geometry, I can see how it would work. The point was made that Oregon is to be applauded for coming up with new products to manufacture in the US and that point must be conceded as well. 

Is it a product for the typical AS member? Probably not. Viewing myself as typical, for once, I run too many different saws, too many different bars, too many different chains for the convenience to be economical even if the cutting performance were equal to the hand filed chisel to which I am accustomed. The 8-10 cords I cut a year could be done with one saw, I suppose, but I'm an enthusiast, and thus typical of users here. For a homeowner with one saw kept mostly to maintain property, the system may indeed be economical.

I would be interested to learn how the cutting performance really stacks up. The video may be convincing to the same people who buy the Weed Weasel, but it is not very informative to the experienced chain saw user. If the system's performance does compare favorably to a well-sharpened conventional chain, and if it is wished to generate positive buzz on AS, the best course would be to provide an example for testing. I nominate heimanm or modifiedmark as a good place to start. Or Dingeryote or IndianSprings -- level, experienced guys who would be apt to judge usefulness fairly. The racers and cookie cutters would give it a workout, too, but might impose an unfairly high standard. Perhaps the example could be circulated like the Leveraxe was. Although one would hope it wouldn't get stuck like the Leveraxe did. Maybe two 16" bars, Stihl and small Husky mounts, using the same chain and stone, so a wide range of saws could be run. I doubt that many AS members would run out and buy one, but if it really does work we'd acknowledge its usefulness and recommend it to those who would benefit.

Just a thought.

Jack


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## nanuk (Mar 2, 2010)

howellhandmade said:


> Reading the repost ...... BIG SNIP.....
> 
> Just a thought.
> 
> Jack



Good post, and a good idea!


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## PowerSharp Eng (Mar 2, 2010)

A PowerSharp system has been sent to an AS member. That person has given me feed back on the packaging/instructions/warnings already. The testing will begin shortly and they will post their experience with the chain and the cutting conditions. Be patient, there should be some information coming from an AS member.


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## howellhandmade (Mar 2, 2010)

PowerSharp Eng said:


> A PowerSharp system has been sent to an AS member. That person has given me feed back on the packaging/instructions/warnings already. The testing will begin shortly and they will post their experience with the chain and the cutting conditions. Be patient, there should be some information coming from an AS member.



I'll bite. Anyone we know?

Jack


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## PowerSharp Eng (Mar 3, 2010)

Yes, this person is an AS member and you will recongnize the name. I'm leaving the AS member to conduct the evaluation and I'm sworn to secrecy so this AS member can conduct the work without influence from AS. 

A dozen fingers on the trigger makes it hard to run a saw.


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## Fish (Mar 3, 2010)

How did he decide on which member??? If it was by looks, we all would be 
ruled out.








Must have picked from that "best bullchitter" category, that would have a lot
of choices........






OR , Maybe from the "Intenz Fan Club"............





And I actually drink from an "Oregon" mug....................What did it get me????






Nothing but heartaches......



I even try to help guys use their Oregon grinders...........



I even get them to make a longer 3/8 lo-pro cutter....


Don't even get a share or two of Oregon stock........

It is like buying into Microsoft 20-25 years ago, all I get is a mug and 50 foot
of Gatorline........................

Which I have plugged countless number of times, BTW......


But I digress......................................................................


...................................................................................


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## dingeryote (Mar 3, 2010)

Fish said:


> How did he decide on which member??? If it was by looks, we all would be
> ruled out.
> 
> 
> ...



Fish,

Why don't ya just ask the guy? 
LOL!!
Or at least do a better job of it. :monkey:




I have a stack of muddy skidded Elm, Cherry and maple to buck up, and was thinking one of these gizmotronic set ups might actually be worthwhile for such a thing just to save the files.

There might just be a use for the things beyond the Rock-o-matic homeowner market.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## Fish (Mar 3, 2010)

Ask him??????????

Never thought of that.


Nahhh... It doesn't have a cupholder anyway.......


I think they are after my Maglev Bar/chain system secrets anyway........

I am going to sell to the Chinese, I think.......


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## howellhandmade (Mar 4, 2010)

PowerSharp Eng said:


> Yes, this person is an AS member and you will recongnize the name. I'm leaving the AS member to conduct the evaluation and I'm sworn to secrecy so this AS member can conduct the work without influence from AS.
> 
> A dozen fingers on the trigger makes it hard to run a saw.



I'm sorry, that's not how we do things here. The person who has the system is required to go off half-cocked and post something inflammatory, one way or the other, so that we can argue fiercely for 65 pages and roam afield into topics like flood control and string theory long before any results are available. Then, when the results are actually posted we'll be sick of the topic and won't pay attention. 

Seriously, though, the only thing I could possibly be impatient with is the cloak-and-dagger stuff. I don't think it's necessary, and *my* only curiosity has to do with the credibility of the tester. We're going to try to influence the test? Who cares that much?

Jack


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## LogLogLog (Mar 4, 2010)

While I think many on the forum might be good at testing it, and letting you know what's good and bad- I think the product is more for the most basic consumer who doesn't even know this forum exists.

Sounds a whole lot like me, so when I get a chance to sample it, I'll let everyone know.. and you won't influence me, because I'm the most basic consumer.


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## Philbert (Mar 5, 2010)

*First Impressions*

Not trying to be cloak-and-dagger here, I just promised PowerSharp Eng that I would hold off on posting until I at least had a chance to try it. The first test, noted below, was done quickly, partially to satisfy some of the rabid curiousity on A.S.; it _does not_ duplicate 'normal homeowner cutting', which I hope to work on in the next few weeks.

Why me? You have to ask him! These are _my first impressions_ - your milage may vary!

PowerSharp Eng provided a bar, chain, and bar mounted sharpener for my Stihl MS021.

I showed these to a few, local chainsaw buddies, and as he noted, provided him with some first impressions feedback on the chain, sharpener, packaging, and instructions.

I have to say up front that I was skeptical about this chain because it is so different than a conventional chain. I also had a first-generation PowerSharp chain on a Craftsman chainsaw, with modest results. At the same time, if Oregon had put all this work into the chain and sharpener, I was eager to try it.

We compared the PowerSharp chain to a Stihl chain with a good factory edge on a 6X6 timber. We were very impressed with the PowerSharp chain with the original factory edge. We thought that it might be jumpy due to its unusual geometry, but surprised that it cut as fast and as smooth as the Stihl chain and left a square, flat-bottomed kerf.

Temptation drove us to intentionally dull the chain on concrete. The bar mounted sharpener was very easy to install and use, like in the video on their web site. But we were not sure how hard to push or how long to push to sharpen the chain.

We were initially able to restore some of the chain’s cutting ability, but not make it cut as good as when it was new. After talking with PowerSharp Eng about how to use the bar mounted sharpener, we will try to sharpen it again, then try on some brush, small logs, and firewood over the next few weeks, and will post again then.

Philbert



Test set up.



Chips with factory edge.



Intentional Abuse!



Bar Mounted Sharpener.



Sharpening.


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## Hddnis (Mar 5, 2010)

It was nice of philbert to take some time to use the powersharp and give some feedback. 

I'll still be buying a few setups and trying it for myself. (No reflection on philbert is meant at all.) 

My intentions as far as its use are for my work, and while I don't think it is too unique, it may be a fit for me while not for others. 



Mr. HE


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## Philbert (May 8, 2010)

*PowerSharp Field Test - Continued*

(Sorry - it took a while to get this posted)

Based on feedback from PowerSharp Eng I remounted the chain used earlier and pushed it firmly into the bar-mounted sharpener (BMS) for approximately 15 seconds. Saw lots of bright sparks shooting from the bottom of the BMS as this was done at twilight. I inspected the chain and still saw striations on the top plate. Tried a sample cut. I remounted the BMS pushed it again for approximately another 15 seconds.

A PowerSharp Haiku
_PowerSharp at night
Sparks shoot from translucent case
Two-cycle firefly_

The top plate was now smoother but not flat; it appeared to have a crown. The edge and leading point appeared sharper, although, still slightly serrated.

The groove in the stone looks significant (3/32“), and some metal build up remains in the center. Persistent metal build-up in the center of the sharpening stone is annoying. Is this metal build-up causing the striations in the top plate? Am I burning up the chain and stone to overcome this?

Tried some sample cuts on approximately 4 week old ash trunk sections cut down by a tree service for a neighbor. ‘Noodled’/ripped a 14” deep crotch section, and cross cut a 16” ‘cookie’, which required burying the 16” bar (only 14” of the bar actually cuts).

The saw/chain noodled pretty well, considering that it was being worked pretty hard for it’s size and power (MS021). Relatively large chips. The saw/chain also cut through the larger trunk section, with a reasonably smooth kerf for this type of cut, again, considering the size and power of the saw. These chips were sharp but small, looking like flaked coconut. It did not cut so well on some cross grain in a crotch area, which may be difficult for any chain.

In summary, I was able to restore more of the chain’s cutting ability with additional sharpening. I was able to resume cutting satisfactorily after the abuse from the first field test day on some heavy cutting, although not able to get the chain to cut as good as new. This would probably be an acceptable result for many chain saw users. I think that I would get better sharpening results if I could remove the metal build up from the stone.

Philbert

PowerSharp vs the Mighty Ash




Cookies!




Chips!




Groovy!


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## mtngun (May 8, 2010)

Thanks for the report, Philbert.

Sounds like it does work well enough for the casual weekend sawyer.


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## galde (May 8, 2010)

The diamond dresser surfaces have a gap in the middle which lets an un-dressed ridge build up in the center of the stone which will clog with embedded metal particles. To work properly the dresser should be continuous across the full width of the kerf. Another issue I see is the change in the geometry of the sharpening process due to wear on the drive links and the sprocket tip on the bar. This was a problem also on the old system. Many users cannot be convinced that a lot of slack in the chain is not only unnecessary but damaging to chain, sprocket, and cutter bar. For the old system to work as designed, it required a perfect chain (original size and shape of drive links and tie straps) with slack fully adjusted out, a perfect rim sprocket, and a perfect stone. For this new system to work as designed, I see the need to dress the stone with a full-width dressing link, and the chain (again without any slack whatsoever) to be carried by a roller nose sprocket, which carries the chain by the bottom edges of tie straps and cutters instead of the drive links, which quickly wear down in typical use.


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## Fish (May 8, 2010)

Can you give a closeup of the cutters??


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## Philbert (May 9, 2010)

Fish said:


> Can you give a closeup of the cutters??



I have had trouble getting clear shots of the used cutters on my chain - for some reason, the close-up feature on my camera hasn't been working well, but I will try again for you Mr. Fish.

There are some clear photos of the new teeth from Oregon in post #9 in this thread.

Philbert


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## Philbert (May 9, 2010)

*I'm Ready for My Close Up Mr. Fish*

Still having some trouble with my camera, but here are some close ups I was able to get, along with commentary. Again, remember that this chain was intentionally abused by touching it to concrete while running, then sharpened with the PowerSharp Bar Mounted Sharpener.

Compare these to the new photos in post #9, and note my comments about metal build-up on the sharpening stone which appears to keep us from getting the intended edge. These were taken after some additional cutting; not right after sharpening. I should note that these are also all on the same chain, which was used in the same manner - there is quite a bit of variation between the teeth photographed.

Philbert

_(***EDIT - the original photos in this thread were lost. I have tried to replace those in these with similar ones where possible. Comments have been updated to match these photos.)

NOTE - this is the same chain that was intentionally ground into the concrete in the photos above, and resharpened only using the PowerSharp cassette shown. 

Note the groove worn into the sharpening stone. This stone is replaced with each new chain as a set.




Note the dual diamond dresser links at the left side of the photo. The chain moves toward the right in this photo.




Note dual depth gauges. The chain moves to the left in this photo.







Note serrations on top of cutter. Chain moves toward the viewer in this photo.



_


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## galde (May 9, 2010)

Justsaws said:


> Mount the diamonds to the sharpener and hook the folks up with some carbide cutters.



Now that is the setup that I would expect to work. There would be only real cutting teeth in the kerf, and the sharpener would keep its shape. I would add an adjustment knob on the plunger mechanism to limit the travel of the sharpener in a controlled way, similar to the old power sharp system. The photos of the teeth and dresser link after a sharpening cycle shows that the current system is readily destroyed if not perfectly operated. A diamond sharpener should also work better with chromed steel teeth than the current system.


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## 8433jeff (May 9, 2010)

If all the cutters were sharpened like the good one in Philbert's pics, I think my files might be worried. After showing them the rest of the pictures, they were laughing as I put them away. But we have seen worse chains come in, and people will be swayed by the "I don't need yous know-it-alls and your grinders and files and pro saws." When I was a heavy equipment operator, we had a saying similar to this "Yesterday, I couldn't spell lumberjack. Today I is one." Any word yet on pricing, and when can somebody else have one?


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## PowerSharp Eng (May 10, 2010)

*Response to Philbert's experience with PowerSharp®*

Thanks Philbert for taking the time to use, photograph, and discuss your thoughts on the PowerSharp® system. Thanks for the haiku, I have a feeling the “Two-cycle firefly” name will stick, especially here at OREGON®.

Your experiences do parallel what we encounter in our field and lab testing.

1) The cutter shape does change during sharpening. The over lap of the right and left hand top plates diminish because of a small ridge that develops at the center of the stone. But, the cutters keep performing through their entire life even as their shape is changing. I was a bit skeptical the first time I saw the change in the cutter top plate shape during testing. But the chain kept on cutting until I had ground the cutters to nubs. 

2) Because the dresser links do not over lap the center of the chain, a ridge develops at the center of the groove in the stone. The ridge is not caused by metal build up on the ridge area. The ridge will affect the cutter top plate shape, but the chain will continue to cut to end of life.

3) The serrations do occur on the top plate from the grit size on the stone and the locations of the diamonds on the dresser links. Don’t try to remove the serrations, sharpen until the chain cuts, don't worry if it does not look like a file sharpened chain. 

4) Metal particles will be visible in differing amounts on the stone. But the location is constantly shifting around the stone and does not affect the sharpening. Again, at first appearance it was concerning, but the stone will continue to sharpen the chain. I’ve seen 3 dozen plus chains sharpened from new life to nubs, so keep going until the stone and chain are fully consumed then post another report. 

5) Watch the groove shape in the stone as it grows to .350”+ deep. The corners of the groove in the stone maintain the cutting points on the cutters. The corners will remain sharp to end of life due to the diamonds on the dresser links.

Thanks again for your observations! Keep cutting and post as you go.


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## vincem77 (May 29, 2010)

This may not be relative in this situation, but reading the comments about metal buildup on the stone it might be.

I've had my share of jobs, one of them being in a production machine shop. My main job was setup of centerless grinders that ground dowel pins and threaded set screws. Cutting oil was our lifeline on the high production machines. If the oil wasn't clean or flowing properly the stone wheels chewed up easy and the parts produced were poor.

This being my background is there a way to incorporate a coolant or oiler dispenser to this sharpener. Something similar to the bar oilers put on sawmills, but at a higher flow rate. Might also need some type of oil/spark catcher so it doesn't make a total mess. 

It seems to me this would not only improve the edge of the cutters, but prolong the life of the whole system. I understand that the current version is geared towards the homeowner, so maybe this option would be a bit advanced. Maybe when it hits stores I'll customize one with an oiler.

Note: make sure the oil isn't flamable.


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## BloodOnTheIce (Jun 22, 2010)

I got one of these to demo from our Oregon Distributor yesterday. I slapped in on my MS211, and hate to admit it but, but the chain cuts well. I bucked up some red and white oak 12-16" diameter stuff and it cuts very well and holds an edge suprisingly well. I intentionally hit the dirt a few times and, and cut up the mudiest parts of the logs I could find, and it maintains an edge as well as the Stihl 63pmc, and Oregon 91vx I usually use. I'll post some pics later. It's not for everyone but, I'm a serious skeptic, and it seems to work well so far.


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## computeruser (Jun 22, 2010)

BloodOnTheIce said:


> I got one of these to demo from our Oregon Distributor yesterday. I slapped in on my MS211, and hate to admit it but, but the chain cuts well. I bucked up some red and white oak 12-16" diameter stuff and it cuts very well and holds an edge suprisingly well. I intentionally hit the dirt a few times and, and cut up the mudiest parts of the logs I could find, and it maintains an edge as well as the Stihl 63pmc, and Oregon 91vx I usually use. I'll post some pics later. It's not for everyone but, I'm a serious skeptic, and it seems to work well so far.



Ah, a first-hand report!

I think it's a great idea when compared to what the average user would be experiencing otherwise. Heck, even after a lecture when I gave my dad his new-used chainsaw, he went right out and started trenching out stumps and roots in mom's flowerbeds; there are now a handful of mangled 3/8" LP loops hanging on my grinder, waiting to be brought back to life. I may buy this system for him one of these days and take the other chains away.


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## BloodOnTheIce (Jun 22, 2010)

i'll post pictures & video tomorrow if i've got time.


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## billmartin (Jun 22, 2010)

Heck if you guys can't kill it that has to say something lol.

Both my dad and step-dad can sharpen WAY better than I can but I have some friends that well... lets say sparks happen and they keep trying.

I'm so glad they have wally world saws and aren't killing good ones.

When this hits the market let us know so I can help keep their crappers alive for a bit longer.

Bill


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## fubar2 (Jun 23, 2010)

I had a cheap little Mac back in the seventies with a barracuda chain and self sharpener. The chain was grabby and the first time I tried to sharpen it the stone exploded. It was the first and last one I ever had.


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## Edge & Engine (Jul 14, 2010)

We have the PowerSharp starter kits in stock. Currently, the only motor mounts available are A074 (Stihl) and A041, a very popular motor mount used on many different brands.

http://www.edgeandengine.com/webstore/wecs.php?store=edge&content=oregon_powersharp.html



You can use the Oregon PowerSharp selector guide to find the right kit for your saw
http://www.powersharp.com/lookups/selguide.aspx?busid=pwrshrp&sellreg=namer&langid=eng


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## Fish (Jul 29, 2010)

dingeryote said:


> Fish,
> 
> Why don't ya just ask the guy?
> LOL!!
> ...



Actually, I did ask.........

Well, kinda.....

I figured if they could get my stamp of approval, they would go for it.............


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## lawnmowertech37 (Oct 24, 2010)

mtngun said:


> OK, I'd never heard of it before, so thanks for enlightening me. Here's the link.
> powersharp
> 
> Looks like it only works with PowerSharp bars and powerSharp chains.
> ...



That is cause it just came out on the market im in the process of adding these to the database once i get a image scanned out of the catalog 

it dont work with electrical saws just gas powered
just got my new 2011 catalog recently so alot of new stuff in there

here is the catalog i have started there are two bar mount patterns the A041 and the A074 these are listed on each item in the description and will be also i make it easy and list the OEM applications on each item 

http://www.cmsmallengines.net/orego...bars-and-chain/oregon-power-sharp-system.html

Do not forget the $ 10.00 rebate oregon is giving till 12-31-2010 

those details are on the items as well


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## briantutt (Oct 24, 2010)

I have got a loop of this crap if anyone wants it. 45DL stray that doesn't belong in my garage. I just figured out what it was today as I was sharpening all of my other chains. Oregon Tech manual says "no manual shaprening" so IMHO it's headed for the trash.


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## Philbert (Oct 24, 2010)

briantutt said:


> I have got a loop of this crap if anyone wants it. 45DL stray that doesn't belong in my garage.



If it has been hanging around your garage for a long time, it it probably the old style, 'self-sharpening' chain, which used a sharpenening stone built into the saw. I don't know if it is compatible with the new system, which uses a special bar-mounted sharpener and a bar with a specific nose radius to match.

Philbert


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## briantutt (Oct 24, 2010)

Philbert said:


> If it has been hanging around your garage for a long time, it it probably the old style, 'self-sharpening' chain, which used a sharpenening stone built into the saw. I don't know if it is compatible with the new system, which uses a special bar-mounted sharpener and a bar with a specific nose radius to match.
> 
> Philbert



:agree2:

It looks pretty wicked with the super pointy rakers but no use to me. I don't have any saws with a self sharpening system. The way the cutter is at such a steep angle and has been filed on the top I tend to agree.


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## PowerSharp Eng (Oct 25, 2010)

briantutt said:


> I have got a loop of this crap if anyone wants it. 45DL stray that doesn't belong in my garage.




The new Powersharp chain just came to market in June of this year. If you've had the chain longer than that it is the previous version of PowerSharp. Please do not mix the new chains on the old sharpening systems or vice versa, as they are not compatible.

Each component on the new Powersharp chain is much different than the old version. One main differentiator is the two diamond coated links to dress the stone to the correct shape. The two diamond coated links keep the chain cutting fast through life.


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## Wood Doctor (Dec 2, 2010)

*Limited*

Too limited. That's the main problem with this device. Seems like a toy and locked into a bar. I'm back to my Oregon 511a. It works and sharpens chains from any saw.


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## PowerSharp Eng (Dec 3, 2010)

Wood Doctor: Just to be sure, the sharpener is only attached during sharpening. The sharpener is taken off after sharpening so the full length of the bar can be used for cutting.


Fish: Check out this youtube video of a Danish guy demonstrating PowerSharp. When you were at the GIE show in Louisville, did they contact the concrete block as long or longer than shown in the video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_w1LmEn67M4&feature=related


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## Fish (Dec 3, 2010)

No the guys in Louisville were much more brutal, he ran the running tip
across the 8 inch surface cutting a deep slot all the way.







Here is a pic of the block, he is using it as a rest to sharpen the chain, but you can see the grooves.

I have not had a chance to cut a great deal with the system much more, as due to the economy and poor e-bay sales have had to get a night job.

But since I have sharpened it properly, it cuts like a champ, as well or better
than a new regular 3/8 lo pro chain, and will use it all winter. I think the design is a sound one, and it should do well.

I will be interested to see if is introduced with/for the larger chain pitches.

I noticed that the saws used in Louisville could have used a little more 
"uuummmppphhh"
I am using a Poulan Pro that came out with a .325, and if I had gotten a Stihl mount, I would have run an 025


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## 8433jeff (Dec 3, 2010)

How long does it stay sharp? I guess my hang up is that I see the temper leaving the cutter after a few sharpenings, and maybe why this will be the only size (91 or L/P).


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## Fish (Dec 3, 2010)

It seems to hold its edge well, it gets dull like a normal chain, when you hit
dirt, and of course, a cinder block.

The sharpening stone is large, I guess to help dissipate heat, the chain
doesn't look burned after sharpening.

My problem on my first sharpening is that I didn't hold it down long enough,
I was afraid of burning off the cutters, but they seem mighty tough.
The Oregon rep suggested a "FULL" 5 seconds at full throttle.....

And they still got many, many sharpenings, even dulling the chain continually on the cinder block for the crowd.


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## Philbert (Dec 17, 2012)

Just to build bridges, and keep info accessible, here is a link to one of the other, large, PowerSharp threads: 

http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/148391.htm

As a matter of courtesy, it has a link to this one, so reciprocity is fair!

Philbert


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## bigblackdodge (Feb 21, 2013)

*My Initial Opinions*

Hey Gang, thanks to a Great AS member, I now have a 16" PS system on my little MS170.
View attachment 280680
View attachment 280681

Now I've already Modded the Muffler on this saw some time back, so despite being only 30cc's, it does run out pretty well for what it is. I mainly use this saw for limbing and cutting up the tops as it's lighter than my MS290 and 038. I finally got the chance to use this setup on a big scaffold branch from a Curly Maple late last month. This scaffold branch, which was 24" at the crotch end, had broken at the crotch over a year ago, but it didn't break free from the trunk and the end limbs, touching the ground, kept the rest of it suspended to season out very nicely. I ran about 1 1/3 tanks of fuel through the saw with this setup on it. Never rocked it, never touched the sharpening cassette, and was pretty impressed that it performed just like it's advertised to. It seems to me, that it may be a tad bit faster through the cut compared to the picco micro I usually run on this saw. I couldn't get a fair comparison since the only picco micro I've got for this saw looks like this.
View attachment 280682

The chain is very aggressive compared to the Picco Micro chain, and a bit choppy IMHO. It likes to grab if you are cutting something smaller, say a 4" or smaller diameter limb and you aren't using a lot of throttle. You do have to be careful if you're cutting up this type of smaller wood out towards the bar tip and not against the saw body, as this chain will grab it and yank it to the saw body. I should have snapped some pics of the cut surface, but I had limited daylight and it was burning up quickly on me. Although the cutters working face is it's Top Plate, it does leave substantial grooves in the cut surface of the wood. I believe this is due to the point of the cutter being a bit more prominent compared to a standard cutter, and the angle looks to be a bit steeper as well. It does sever the fibers nicely and throws bigger chips than the Picco Micro. 

I used the saw from the tip of the branch, up to about 14" diameter wood. Under normal circumstances I would have switched to the MS290 sooner, but I wanted to really get a good work out with the PS system. I will honestly say, with the experience I've had so far, I am itching to use it again, and I am really looking forward to trying out an 18" .325 setup for the MS290!
View attachment 280683

I thoroughly enjoy hand filing my chains, and I will continue to do so. But this setup will remain in my working collection. I have been cutting firewood all my life. I got my first saw when I was 9 years old, I am now 37. This year my 65 year old father will be retiring, and I will buy him one of these for his new tool-less Homelite saw. He also still heats with wood, and this is the Perfect Setup for a feller like him. Of course you know who, keeps him well stocked with firewood, but he does like to piddle around and cut up dead fall limbs and such.

I believe Oregon has figured this thing out. It's not for everyone, but it is for someone. I look forward to putting more time on it and sharing my experience with you all.

A Big Thank You to Philbert!:cool2:


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## malce (Jul 10, 2013)

*PowerSH-T*

What a waste of money the teeth are not strong enough, I used one for 2 weeks and lost about 11 teeth of the chain!:msp_mad:


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## PowerSharp Eng (Jul 10, 2013)

malce said:


> What a waste of money the teeth are not strong enough, I used one for 2 weeks and lost about 11 teeth of the chain!:msp_mad:



What were you cutting?


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## Rob D (Jul 10, 2013)

malce said:


> What a waste of money the teeth are not strong enough, I used one for 2 weeks and lost about 11 teeth of the chain!:msp_mad:




I think if you lost teeth you hit something hard. You would prob have lost a few teeth with standard chain.

I used powersharp a fair bit when it came out. Conclusions were:

It doesn't cut as fast or as efficiently as any standard chain even when new. If you hit something I could never get the edge back as it was when it was new out the box.

It's expensive.

In summary I'd say this chain is only for the homeowner who can't sharpen a saw themselves.

P.S a few collegues I sold powersharp to came back to me with the same conclusions. Everyone was very excited at first and where will this development lead... but all came back a little disappointed.


:msp_smile:


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## malce (Jul 10, 2013)

PowerSharp Eng said:


> What were you cutting?



All sorts of tree branches up to about 9" diameter.


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## PowerSharp Eng (Jul 10, 2013)

malce said:


> All sorts of tree branches up to about 9" diameter.



What species of wood?

What saw did you use?

Did you cut into anything other than wood?


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## malce (Jul 10, 2013)

PowerSharp Eng said:


> What species of wood?
> 
> What saw did you use?
> 
> Did you cut into anything other than wood?



No only cut branches they were all different English types oak beech yew pine, using my Stihl 015L


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## malce (Jul 10, 2013)

*Powersharp*



malce said:


> No only cut branches they were all different English types oak beech yew pine, using my Stihl 015L



Does not matter now, I use the powersharp 16" bars with normal chains on the 015L and If I get serious I use my Stihl 038 magnum
Got rid of the Stihl and now use real Saws like a Danarm 125cc and 110s also a 923 Homelite none of which need a chain break! on tick over the chain does not move.


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## zombywoof (Jul 15, 2013)

*Power-crap*

Teeth break, too expensive, and the stones don't stay attached to the sharpener. I am looking for something good to use.....not some Oregon crap or Carlton "lookalike" riveted onto Oregon chain. I'll take a reliable, good cutting Stihl chain any day!


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## RedShift42 (Nov 6, 2013)

Wow, some pretty harsh sentiments from a few of you guys.

Here's my experience:
I picked up the 14" b&c set some time ago when HD had a clearance. Didn't even have an applicable saw yet but for like $24, what the heck.
As luck had it, last winter I found a nearly-new little Echo at a garage sale-- it must have been broken-in bucking rounds flat on the gravel driveway; great saw, fubar chain. Perfect candidate!

Since then I've cut 2-3 cords of 3"-10" birch & alder with that combo. And it just likes to eat wood-- Digs right in like a half-scale chisel chain and throws big chips. Very unlike what I'd expect from a lo-kickback chain. It seems well matched to the saw, striking a balance between aggressiveness and maintaining chain speed. What's impressed me most tho' is how it's holding up-- it's stretched far less than it's got the right to, and, so far it's only needed two(!) touch-up sharpenings (once b/c I kissed the dirt). Out cutting w/ a buddy, he stops to dress his chain, I just keep going. FWIW, the bar still looks new too. 
Despite the big box retail marketing, I feel like this is real equipment.
I keep hearing about how great the VXL chain is for smaller saws and I keep meaning to buy a loop, but just haven't been able to justify it-- the darn PowerSharp isn't getting any older.

My only gripe is its grabbiness. Due to the top-sharpening tooth shape maybe there's no way around it, it's just aggressive by nature. I love how the saw burrows into larger rounds, but cutting into smaller stuff requires the operator to be conscientious; make sure of your body position, have the chain up to full speed, and do not cut into unsecured branches! If not for that, I think it'd be the ultimate system for occasional users for pruning, small jobs, and storm cleanup because it's robust & foolproof.
I think that's the irony of PowerSharp, and why I don't quite know who to recommend it to-- it seems like a system most appealing to the amateur but its "bitey" aggressiveness makes it better suited to the kind of guys who've been doing this long enough take pride in their file-sharpening skill.
I take pride in having the sharpest hand-filed chains of my cutting buddies, nevertheless, if I come across an 18" PS kit for my 026, I'm buying it.

-Eric.


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## Philbert (Mar 16, 2014)

UPDATE - I have tried to replace the missing photos from this thread for continuity.

There have been several other PowerSharp threads since this one. I have been adding new comments and information in the thread linked below so that it most mostly stays in the same place.

http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/148391.htm

Philbert


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## wde_1978 (Mar 12, 2016)

I hope these are allowed, if not I guess a Mod will remove my post! 

*Oregon PowerSharp:*











Waiting for firewood delivery so I can compare it side by side to a brand new classic round tooth Oregon chain.

This system is quite expensive, but I was curious how it works.

First visual impressions are in the line of "nothing special", we'll see how I'll like cutting performance.

Note:
The 7th picture is upside-down!
The Forum software keeps flipping it 180° and I can't do anything about it.

P.S.:
I just realized I haven't a single picture of the sharpening stone...


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