# Tamarack Tree????



## davebell18 (May 5, 2009)

I have a lot of trees in about 2 acres of swamp land. I was told they are tamarack trees. I personally do not know a thing about them. They are tall, around 40'. I was wondering if they are a good fire wood for in homes. Smoky, hard wood or soft wood, anything good or bad about them? Thanks!!


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## JONSEREDFAN6069 (May 5, 2009)

throw alot of heat but goes up almost like paper. good on cold nites to warm up the house quick. not very good in a owb.


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## 2dogs (May 5, 2009)

Tamarac pines are very popular trees for firewood in the Sierras. Don't know if it's the same tree or not.


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## davebell18 (May 5, 2009)

Thanks guys. Anyone else?


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## GASoline71 (May 5, 2009)

I think the Tamarack Trees we have out here are actually Western Larch... they drop their needles every year like a deciduous tree drops leaves. Don't know if they are the same for you over there in Wisconsin.

They are good for heat over in elk camp as they burn quick and hot. Lots of pitch as well... so they are easy to get started in a fire. I've never burned any in a wood stove... so I wouldn't know about that.

Gary


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## grandpatractor (May 5, 2009)

They make good poles for a horse corral. We built one about 20 years ago and it held up well for over 15 years. used them for posts and rails. When my youngest brother decided to make the corral into a garden he burned them. 
they make a super hot fire when they have gotten good and dry.


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## stihlloggin (May 6, 2009)

Well around here the larch snags called ( buckskin ) are worth more $ as firewood than doug fir or anything else. The boise plywood mill uses it for plywood to.


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## turnkey4099 (May 6, 2009)

stihlloggin said:


> Well around here the larch snags called ( buckskin ) are worth more $ as firewood than doug fir or anything else. The boise plywood mill uses it for plywood to.



Yep, about the tops for firewood in the softwood category. You have to go to the true hardwoods to get better.

I doubt what the OP is referring to is the Western Larch (Tamarack) as I can't recall ever seeing one growing in a swamp.

Harry K


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## Metals406 (May 6, 2009)

stihlloggin said:


> Well around here the larch snags called ( buckskin ) are worth more $ as firewood than doug fir or anything else. The boise plywood mill uses it for plywood to.



:agree2:

Buckskin larch is felt of the same way here. Gary was right... Western Larch is also called Tamarack. Really good firewood I think... I'm burning some in the stove right now, and I'll get way more than an overnight burn out'a it. Nothing fast burning about it IMO. Well, faster than hardwoods maybe, but we ain't got none of that fancy wood. 

Not pitchy either, in comparison to Doug Fir, Piss fir, or Bull Pine.

The only thing I don't like about Larch... Are those damn little slivers you can't hardly see, and they'll aggravate you TO NO END! They get in your work gloves, pants, jacket... I call'em 'no-see-em' slivers.


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## Mike Van (May 6, 2009)

We have it here & call it Larch too. About the best framing lumber we have, as it holds nails better than pine, spruce or hemlock. If they have any size to them, you might find a bandmill owner who'd want them? I know I would!


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## davebell18 (May 6, 2009)

Ill snap some pics to see exactly what tree it is. Then i will go a mill and see. Thanks very much guys!


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## slowp (May 6, 2009)

If it is Eastern Larch, or Tamarack, it too loses its needles in the fall/winter. Are the needles in little bunches? What kind of cones are underneath. Take pictures of the cones, and a close up of the needle clusters. Those are the best kind of pictures for tree identification purposes. 

Western Larch is the most desirable firewood species for Eastern Warshington.
It splits well and burns hot. The bad thing is that folks don't realize they lose their needles every winter, think they are dead, and cut them down for firewood. Then they complaint that the rounds are heavy.....


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## Ironbark (May 6, 2009)

I found the Larch I've burned in the UK tends to spit even when well seasoned. Does burn hot though!

Just thought I'd thow in my tuppence worth.


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## chevytaHOE5674 (May 6, 2009)

Being in Wisconsin I would assume its eastern larch, _Larix laricina_. Its a really soft softwood, and burns in a hurry.


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## wood4heat (May 6, 2009)

slowp said:


> The bad thing is that folks don't realize they lose their needles every winter, think they are dead, and cut them down for firewood.



:agree2: I've been guilty of that, took one on an elk hunt several years ago. I think (hope) I've learned to spot them now. :rant: Tamaracks!


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## dingeryote (May 6, 2009)

chevytaHOE5674 said:


> Being in Wisconsin I would assume its eastern larch, _Larix laricina_. Its a really soft softwood, and burns in a hurry.



The Tamarack we have here burns like seasoned willow.
WHOOOF!!

Keep a couple bolts next to the stove for in the mornings, and mind the damper..it gets HOT quick.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## woodbooga (May 6, 2009)

In my neck of the woods, tamarack is a "default species" that easily gets outcompeted by most every other species. I find it most in boggy settings where not much else will take root. Too mushy to back the old truck up to.

My neighbor has one planeted as an ornamental in front of their antique house, alongside an ancient mulberry. Both probably date to the early 1900s when popular interest in botany led to the use of such species as landscaping trees.

Over in Maine, where they insist on having their own words for everything, they call tamarack hackmatack or some such.


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## 2dogs (May 6, 2009)

Please forgive but here are 2 link to Wikipedia. I would not normally share "knowledge" gained from Wpedia but they do have a cool map on this page. I don't yet know how the Tamarack Pine of the Sierras is related to the OP's tree. The Tamarack Larch is commonly found in swamps. I guess Tamarack Larch is a pine not a true Tamarack.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamarack_Larch
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lodgepole_Pine

Another good link.
http://academics.smcvt.edu/vtgeographic/textbook/trees/vermont_trees.htm

And yet another, with cone pics.
http://www.gotpinecones.com/tamarack-pine-cones.html


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## woodbooga (May 6, 2009)

*Anyone snowshoe?*

Interesting. 

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=tamarack

*tamarack * 
N.Amer. red larch, 1805, probably of Algonquian origin (cf. synonymous hackmatack, 1792, from a source akin to Abenaki akemantak "a kind of supple wood used for making snowshoes").


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## GASoline71 (May 6, 2009)

slowp said:


> The bad thing is that folks don't realize they lose their needles every winter, think they are dead, and cut them down for firewood. Then they complaint that the rounds are heavy.....



LMAO... yep... we had a new guy in elk camp a few seasons back. He just moved here from Illinois. We hunt up near Ravens Roost Just north of Crow Creek in Eastern WA. Lots of Ponderosa, Cedar, and of course Tamarack. The roads and a lot of the ground is covered in yellow needles that have fallen and are falling off of the Tamarack trees. 

New guy asks why we would hunt in a forest with so many dieing trees... old timer in camp tells him that there are so many elk in the woods that their piss is what is killin' the trees... it's a good sign for us hunters. 

Not sure if new guy really believed him... but for the first 4 days of the season... he only hunted where the Tamarack groves were. 

Gary


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## WidowMaker (May 6, 2009)

turnkey4099 said:


> Yep, about the tops for firewood in the softwood category. You have to go to the true hardwoods to get better.
> 
> I doubt what the OP is referring to is the Western Larch (Tamarack) as I can't recall ever seeing one growing in a swamp.
> 
> Harry K



===

Not only that, a tamerack(larch) 40 ft tall would only be about 6 or 8 inched stem..


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## woodbooga (May 6, 2009)

GASoline71 said:


> Not sure if new guy really believed him... but for the first 4 days of the season... he only hunted where the Tamarack groves were.
> 
> Gary



Bring him out to a pile of slash and tell 'em to beware of the stump snakes. You know you've stepped on one 'cause you'll hear a snapping sound.


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## PB (May 6, 2009)

It's hard to say for sure what it is without a picture. _Larix laricina_ has "bumps" that are rounded in the fall and winter where the needles fall off. If you look at a twig, there will be alternating bumps going down the twig. The should be starting to grow new needles by now though. 

They are often found in wet areas as someone has mentioned already.


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## ak4195 (May 6, 2009)

GAry had it right,tamarack= larch,several if not many types.Ive seen them in the willamet valley right along side cedars and fir.Also to the north in very boggy area around Liard Hotsprings in BC.
Here we have Siberian larch and they are just about to explode in green green.NOrmally they start to green up before the birch which is semi dominant,and are the last to turn gold(and of course drop there needles)in the fall.
We have a problem with Larch sawfly,which has spread all the way to stands above/below the arctic circle. Pretty darn tuff tree,to handle the weather.
The Larch(not native to south central alaska) will outgrow spruce/birch in this area.Theres 3 about 500yds north of my house that were planted approx 30 yrs ago by the ole man who homesteaded my property(who is buried beneath there bows).They are about 70' tall and perhaps 16-18" on the butt.'Cept for the porcupine chewing on them,they are very healthy.

ak4195


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## Ske-bum (May 6, 2009)

2dogs said:


> Please forgive but here are 2 link to Wikipedia. I would not normally share "knowledge" gained from Wpedia but they do have a cool map on this page. I don't yet know how the Tamarack Pine of the Sierras is related to the OP's tree. The Tamarack Larch is commonly found in swamps. I guess Tamarack Larch is a pine not a true Tamarack.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamarack_Larch
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lodgepole_Pine
> 
> ...



Now I'm really confused

However the Tamarack PINE is one of the best burning of the pine around the sierra. It has very little bark compared to a ponderosa pine and is stringy and hard to split. It doesn't drop it's needles.


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## PB (May 7, 2009)

Here is a classic example of why common names suck. Tamarack on the west coast is not the same as the east, or even midwest. The Tamarack here, _Larix laricina_, is deciduous and drops its needles in the fall. I am not familiar with the species out west, but if it doesn't drop its needles it is probably not in the _Larix_ genus.


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## woodbooga (May 7, 2009)

PlantBiologist said:


> Here is a classic example of why common names suck. Tamarack on the west coast is not the same as the east, or even midwest. The Tamarack here, _Larix laricina_, is deciduous and drops its needles in the fall. I am not familiar with the species out west, but if it doesn't drop its needles it is probably not in the _Larix_ genus.



+1. From now on, only Latin: Hackmatacus maineus.


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## chevytaHOE5674 (May 7, 2009)

PlantBiologist said:


> Here is a classic example of why common names suck.



I tried bringing in the latin on the first page to try and reduce confusion. Apparently it didn't catch on.


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## cbolyard (May 7, 2009)

PlantBiologist said:


> Here is a classic example of why common names suck. Tamarack on the west coast is not the same as the east, or even midwest. The Tamarack here, _Larix laricina_, is deciduous and drops its needles in the fall. I am not familiar with the species out west, but if it doesn't drop its needles it is probably not in the _Larix_ genus.



It would be _Larix occidentalis_ in the PNW, and does drop needles. It also has the little nodes like the pic you posted earlier.


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## ak4195 (May 7, 2009)

*tagging the gnats a***

Ok,make that Larix sibirica for the northern cousin of the TAMARACK.


http://forestry.about.com/library/tree/bltam.htm

ak4195


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## slowp (May 7, 2009)

We also have a Subalpine Larch, but I can't remember the Larix whatever and I am too lazy to look it up. It is more stunted, and amazingly grows at a higher elevation. There's a lot of them in the Eastern North Cascades. 

Or else the elk moved in there too!:greenchainsaw:


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## MR4WD (May 9, 2009)

slowp said:


> We also have a Subalpine Larch, but I can't remember the Larix whatever and I am too lazy to look it up. It is more stunted, and amazingly grows at a higher elevation. There's a lot of them in the Eastern North Cascades.
> 
> Or else the elk moved in there too!:greenchainsaw:




larix lyallii; Which is called an "alpine larch" here. Looks like charlie browns christmas tree when healthy. In the winter it looks like 3-4 year old dead lodgepole pine.

larix occidentalis, the western larch burns fairly well. Some prefer it over birch, which is our best burning hardwood (over trembling aspen and black cottonwood obviously) but there's next to none around here.


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## davebell18 (May 11, 2009)

Sorry this took so long. I was very busy. thanks everyone for your help. What kind of tamarack tree is this? Thanks


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## PB (May 11, 2009)

If you're from Wisconsin, there is only one tamarack in your state the _Larix laricina_. The common name is just Tamarack, so you answered your own question.


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## Metals406 (May 11, 2009)

Looks like a 'true' Tamarack Larch to me... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamarack_Larch


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## Metals406 (May 11, 2009)

Looks like PB and I posted at the same time.


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## GASoline71 (May 11, 2009)

Wow... your trees grow sideways over there... 

Gary


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## WidowMaker (May 11, 2009)

That 2nd picture of the bark looks a lot like spruce...


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## gallegosmike (May 11, 2009)

turnkey4099 said:


> Yep, about the tops for firewood in the softwood category. You have to go to the true hardwoods to get better.
> 
> I doubt what the OP is referring to is the Western Larch (Tamarack) as I can't recall ever seeing one growing in a swamp.
> 
> Harry K



Naaa!! Pinyon pine is the "Hardwood" of pines. It is the best pine for heating. Its burns long and hot with medium amount ash. It grows all throughout the western USA and mexico. It has a very aromatic smoke/smell to it. If youve ever been to Santa Fe NM in the fall/winter. Your smelling pinyon smoke!


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## slowp (May 11, 2009)

GASoline71 said:


> Wow... your trees grow sideways over there...
> 
> Gary



I would be allowed to cut them because they are sideways. :greenchainsaw:


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## davebell18 (May 11, 2009)

So can i have more opinions what i can do with these trees. I have around 500 or so. They are all in the swamp hence why they grow sideways. haha I would like to use it for fire wood. Is it smoky or smelly? Is it a good fire wood in terms of heat, how long it lasts on fire? Thanks again guys


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## Metals406 (May 11, 2009)

davebell18 said:


> So can i have more opinions what i can do with these trees. I have around 500 or so. They are all in the swamp hence why they grow sideways. haha I would like to use it for fire wood. Is it smoky or smelly? Is it a good fire wood in terms of heat, how long it lasts on fire? Thanks again guys



We have the western larch (similar to Tamarack), but it's one of the most sought after firewoods here. Cut it and burn it... After it's seasoned of course.


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## chevytaHOE5674 (May 14, 2009)

davebell18 said:


> So can i have more opinions what i can do with these trees. I have around 500 or so. They are all in the swamp hence why they grow sideways. haha I would like to use it for fire wood. Is it smoky or smelly? Is it a good fire wood in terms of heat, how long it lasts on fire? Thanks again guys



Its a soft softwood, burns hot and fast. It should be seasoned for 2 seasons as well. Are they causing a problem? If not let them grow up, they make good pulp.


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## PB (May 14, 2009)

davebell18 said:


> So can i have more opinions what i can do with these trees. I have around 500 or so. They are all in the swamp hence why they grow sideways. haha I would like to use it for fire wood. Is it smoky or smelly? Is it a good fire wood in terms of heat, how long it lasts on fire? Thanks again guys



Burn it. It has more BTU's than some birch.

http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/howood.htm


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## TravisL (May 17, 2009)

tamarack burns like crazy but burns super fast up here in hardwood counrty we would only use this for kindling. Back in the early days of logging these trees were dug partially up and felled at the roots. Where the trunk met a main perpendicular root in an "L" shape was used as knuckles in wood ship building. If I am not mistaken, these trees, along with eastern white pine, were marked with the the kings broad arrow, making certain trees illegal to cut unless contracted by the King of England to cut for the kings navy. The white pines were used for masts.


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## Metals406 (May 17, 2009)

TravisL said:


> tamarack burns like crazy but burns super fast up here in hardwood counrty we would only use this for kindling. Back in the early days of logging these trees were dug partially up and felled at the roots. Where the trunk met a main perpendicular root in an "L" shape was used as knuckles in wood ship building. If I am not mistaken, these trees, along with eastern white pine, were marked with the the kings broad arrow, making certain trees illegal to cut unless contracted by the King of England to cut for the kings navy. The white pines were used for masts.



Yes, you hardwood fellas have it good... Us guys stuck with conifers put Fir and Larch at the top of our firewood list.

I'm very curious about the burn duration you guys get out of hardwoods?.. Having never burned any myself.

I can get a good 10 hour burn from Larch rounds... Which doesn't seem to 'hot and fast' to me?


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## TravisL (May 17, 2009)

to us larch is a screamer. Up here you wont find people burning soft wood for fear of chimney problems/fires. If someone up here found a stick of softwood/conifer in their cord they might try to sue you . As for burn rate, I have a crappy old stove with no seals that has about a 10 square foot box that I start a good ash fire in at about 7 pm and all I have to do is add a stick at 7 am and it fires right up. I heat 1000 square feet with single pane windows and no insulation with 2 cord a year.


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## TravisL (May 17, 2009)

granted I dont mind chilly mornings or wearing a sweat shirt in the house lol


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## Metals406 (May 17, 2009)

TravisL said:


> to us larch is a screamer. Up here you wont find people burning soft wood for fear of chimney problems/fires. If someone up here found a stick of softwood/conifer in their cord they might try to sue you . As for burn rate, I have a crappy old stove with no seals that has about a 10 square foot box that I start a good ash fire in at about 7 pm and all I have to do is add a stick at 7 am and it fires right up. I heat 1000 square feet with single pane windows and no insulation with 2 cord a year.





TravisL said:


> granted I dont mind chilly mornings or wearing a sweat shirt in the house lol



I too live in a shoddy excuse for a dwelling, leaks, bad windows, well... It is a trailer house. :help: LOL

You got my cord count beat, as I burn 5-7 depending on the year? Long winters mean more wood, as the wood stove is our sole source of heat... No furnace.

I'd love to get my grimy paws on two cords of hardwood, and compare it to Larch... Maybe I'll get lucky, and score some Maple from town? Inside city limits is the only place you'll find hardwoods here.


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## TravisL (May 18, 2009)

i dont a furnace either. I do have propane hot water though. Livin' the high life


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## Westshore (May 27, 2009)

We have tons of Tamarack here and we prefer it to hard woods, its burns very hot. Its one of the hottest burning of all species hard woods included. We use it in our outside boiler and it burns quite long and leaves very little ash. We burn about 15-20 cords a year. Its used allot were you have standing water etc as its very resistant to rot. The trees here can get to over 24" across and are very tall and weigh a ton.


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## chewbacca (May 30, 2009)

We're talkin about two different trees here. The "tamarack" (western larch) we have out west here is a larger tree found in drier areas and is well sought after for firewood. There is a "tamarack" back east which is a smaller tree and found in boggy areas. The two trees, except for size, are very similar visually. They are different species of trees (however may belong to the same genus - I don't know about this). As I said the western larch is sought after for firewood. I have no idea about the firewood characteristics of the "tamarack" back east.


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