# Where do we (you/I) go from here?



## Sunrise Guy (Feb 3, 2010)

I'm getting very close to throwing in the towel. I don't care what is being said on the news. I know, very well, that our economy is limping along and may take another nosedive within the next year. Tree care is NOT a big priority to most, when everyone is worrying about their own incomes.

My question: If you were going to start up another business, what would that business be, based on where you feel there is a need out there that is not being met? Obviously we can all joke around on this, and, hey, that's cool with me, as long as some of you can come up with some business pursuits you honestly think may be the next "big thing."

Thanks, in advance. Hopefully business will pick up and I'll get out of my funk.


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## Blakesmaster (Feb 3, 2010)

Sunrise Guy said:


> I'm getting very close to throwing in the towel. I don't care what is being said on the news. I know, very well, that our economy is limping along and may take another nosedive within the next year. Tree care is NOT a big priority to most, when everyone is worrying about their own incomes.
> 
> My question: If you were going to start up another business, what would that business be, based on where you feel there is a need out there that is not being met? Obviously we can all joke around on this, and, hey, that's cool with me, as long as some of you can come up with some business pursuits you honestly think may be the next "big thing."
> 
> Thanks, in advance. Hopefully business will pick up and I'll get out of my funk.



Bankruptcy attorney?


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## pdqdl (Feb 3, 2010)

That takes at least 4 years of planning. Good idea, though.

Particularly for someone with first hand experience. I think I will be ready for that by spring.


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## RVALUE (Feb 3, 2010)

So in your case, you _don't_ want spring to come early.


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## treeman82 (Feb 3, 2010)

If I was mechanically inclined, I'd probably be looking into a small mechanic shop. I mean it's VERY hard to find a *good* mechanic. Odds are I'd already have a bunch of tools, shop space, and knowledge.


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## ozzy42 (Feb 3, 2010)

Auto repair ,if you have the tools and knowledge.
People are holding on to their cars longer.
They all gonna need fixin sooner or later.


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## TreEmergencyB (Feb 3, 2010)

thought about buying into a office cleaning franchise..i mean from doing tree work to cleaning offices...sounds like easy money to me


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## woodchux (Feb 3, 2010)

Pawnshop / gun dealer


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## tree md (Feb 3, 2010)




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## lxt (Feb 3, 2010)

Wow sunrise...hang in there!!

Ive heard selling domain names is the new big thing??? honestly I wouldnt know what to start & imagine all the College grads that will be looking for work here in 4-5 months!

sooner or later its got to turn around...hopefully sooner!

Hey ask the Govt. for a bail out, all joking aside a buddy of mine (home builder) has 4 employees for chits & giggles writes in asking for such due to very bad economical times.......they sent him grant funding info, he applied & got like $3500-$5000........not much but helped!

LXT.................


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## jefflovstrom (Feb 3, 2010)

Yeah!, Hang in there!, 
Jeff


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## pdqdl (Feb 3, 2010)

Nice backup plan, tree md ! 

That will work nicely as an add-on to the existing business, and it allows for day & night shifts. Advertising slogan: "_*I trim ALL trees or bushes, regardless of difficulty or location*_".

You could even give tax deductible receipts for trimming whatever bushes that required servicing.


Question: will you be offering senior citizen discounts ?


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## tree md (Feb 3, 2010)

pdqdl said:


> Nice backup plan, tree md !
> 
> That will work nicely as an add-on to the existing business, and it allows for day & night shifts. Advertising slogan: "_*I trim ALL trees or bushes, regardless of difficulty or location*_".
> 
> ...



I was gonna say keep a cougar on deck for a backup plan but at my age that's just gross! :hmm3grin2orange:

Hang in there guys, Prosperity is just around the corner...


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## Tree Pig (Feb 3, 2010)

tree md said:


>



Someone rep him for me I cant and that cracked me up.


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## Tree Pig (Feb 3, 2010)

Sunrise with your credentials couldnt you find a job with a municipality or a college or something. Tree workers are a dime a dozen but certified to your level are not that common. I would think someone would pick you up that would give you a half decent dependable income.


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## Sunrise Guy (Feb 4, 2010)

Blakesmaster said:


> Bankruptcy attorney?



Funny you should say that. One of my best friends is just that, in Chicago. He's currently carrying thirty cases at once. 

Another one of my best buddies is on the other side, as actually in bankruptcy, as in busted, right now, in FL. I'm heading down to see him, Tuesday. We're going to see what we can come up with when it comes to new business ideas. This is a guy who has been on the cover of Money Magazine and Chicago Real Estate, back when he lived there. He flipped million dollar condos, two at a time. To see him now is going to be very odd. I can still remember cruising down Michigan Avenue in his convertible XKE with the top down and the stereo blaring. He dated a PB centerfold gal for two years. We used to rocket along the lake in his Cigarette. He had it all and now----???

These are tough times, my brothers and sisters, and I don't see the light at the end of the tunnel, at this point.


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## Sunrise Guy (Feb 4, 2010)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> Sunrise with your credentials couldnt you find a job with a municipality or a college or something. Tree workers are a dime a dozen but certified to your level are not that common. I would think someone would pick you up that would give you a half decent dependable income.



I was hired by one of the big boys a few years back, during a lull in my biz. Just after that, I got a ton of business rolling in and turned down starting the gig with the company that had hired me. Now they won't even take my application. Yeah, that bridge is burned.

I have tried the city, state and county listings, but not much is available. An urban forester job was posted, and I thought my chances were good until the final page of the online app. It asked if I had done at least three years with a municipality. As soon as I answered "No," my app was instantly rejected. It's the old Catch 22 crap. If you've been self-employed from the start, like me, some jobs just aren't open to you.

I am hoping that the calls come back, but these days I can sit around the office and NEVER hear the phone ring, from 8-5. Almost unbelievable.


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## Sunrise Guy (Feb 4, 2010)

TreEmergencyB said:


> thought about buying into a office cleaning franchise..i mean from doing tree work to cleaning offices...sounds like easy money to me



I looked into the whole franchise trip, and decided I didn't need them to start another business. I actually considered the janitorial/office cleaning route, but I like being at home, at night, with the gf, too much to do that. I did clean restaurants from MN-5AM, in college, and then grab an hour of sleep to get up at 6AM and clean K-Marts from 6-8AM. Then I went to class. I was a zombie for a year. I did like the work, though. Driving a cab, night shift, in Chicago, was my favorite gig, as a kid. Here in Austin, cab driving is terrible. I tried it when I first got down here in '78, and it was way too boring. Chicago was an adventure, though. The stories I could tell----


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## RVALUE (Feb 4, 2010)

Sunrise Guy said:


> I was hired by one of the big boys a few years back, during a lull in my biz. Just after that, I got a ton of business rolling in and turned down starting the gig with the company that had hired me. Now they won't even take my application. Yeah, that bridge is burned.
> 
> I have tried the city, state and county listings, but not much is available. An urban forester job was posted, and I thought my chances were good until the final page of the online app. It asked if I had done at least three years with a municipality. As soon as I answered "No," my app was instantly rejected. It's the old Catch 22 crap. If you've been self-employed from the start, like me, some jobs just aren't open to you.
> 
> I am hoping that the calls come back, but these days I can sit around the office and NEVER hear the phone ring, from 8-5. Almost unbelievable.



I've seen it so slow, you call your own phone to see if it's working.


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## oldirty (Feb 4, 2010)

RVALUE said:


> I've seen it so slow, you call your own phone to see if it's working.



are you a tree guy? do you climb? why are homeowners posting in the commercial tree forum?


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## Bermie (Feb 4, 2010)

It real slow here too...thank God one of the high end landscaping firms (yes there are some good ones) has been subbing me lately, need to cultivate this!

I also do training, got two proposals in to the Government...thing is they take so long to get the ok, then take like six weeks to pay...so I probably won't see that till March! 

Is there any opportunity for providing training to municipalities? You are credentialed so you have credibility...


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## treeslayer (Feb 4, 2010)

oldirty said:


> are you a tree guy? do you climb? why are homeowners posting in the commercial tree forum?



Looking for rep, probably.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Feb 4, 2010)

TreEmergencyB said:


> thought about buying into a office cleaning franchise..i mean from doing tree work to cleaning offices...sounds like easy money to me



If you think tree work is cut-throat! Janitorial is worse then lawncare. I managed for a company shortly after I got outa The Suck. I was on-call 24-7 for 21k, this was back in '93 or so. I was trying to do tree work on the side, but sleep was getting in the way.


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## tree MDS (Feb 4, 2010)

Sunrise Guy said:


> I'm getting very close to throwing in the towel. I don't care what is being said on the news. I know, very well, that our economy is limping along and may take another nosedive within the next year. Tree care is NOT a big priority to most, when everyone is worrying about their own incomes.
> 
> My question: If you were going to start up another business, what would that business be, based on where you feel there is a need out there that is not being met? Obviously we can all joke around on this, and, hey, that's cool with me, as long as some of you can come up with some business pursuits you honestly think may be the next "big thing."
> 
> Thanks, in advance. Hopefully business will pick up and I'll get out of my funk.



I've always thought that a chain of either package stores, or rehabs would bring good steady work... heck, on either end its like a revolving door.


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## pmoudy (Feb 4, 2010)

How about being a repole man.


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## gr8scott72 (Feb 4, 2010)

pmoudy said:


> How about being a repole man.



What is he going to pole? lol


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## gr8scott72 (Feb 4, 2010)

Two items that are recession proof are cosmetics and liquor.


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## tree md (Feb 4, 2010)

*Toilet Paper*



gr8scott72 said:


> Two items that are recession proof are cosmetics and liquor.



My ground guy works nights at a toilet paper plant. Although the cut his hours back over the past year, he kept his job. He's back to 60 hours a week again now.


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## ASD (Feb 4, 2010)

REPO man get a tow truck


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## treeslayer (Feb 4, 2010)

gr8scott72 said:


> Two items that are recession proof are cosmetics and liquor.



My GF oversees Jim Beam's retirement accounts for their executives, they did VERY GOOD this year.  made me sick to see those 401k plans paying over a :censored: million a year.

Repo man, now that would work. trade the chipper and bucket in on a snatch truck and a rollback? ( and a gun or 2).

$$$$$$$


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## Sunrise Guy (Feb 4, 2010)

ASD said:


> REPO man get a tow truck



Another profession I looked into to the point where I had found a new truck for sixty large, all signage included. I'm not totally turned off to the tow truck idea. Since I sleep odd hours, and always have from the time of college, the thought of getting up at 3AM to head out into a stormy night to rescue some vehicle from the side of the road actually sounds like fun, to me.

The idea of popping for the sixty g's does not sit well with me, but I'm examining all angles, right now. Something's gotta give.


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## mckeetree (Feb 4, 2010)

This is not much help I know but what I would stay away from is anything to do with the green industry. The gov. just doesn't have the nuts to send the illegal Mexicans home and they have pretty much infiltrated this industry. If I could have known at the time what that amnesty deal back in 1986 would do to us I would have gotten out of this business so fast it would have made you dizzy to have watched it.


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## fishercat (Feb 5, 2010)

*look for a used one.*



Sunrise Guy said:


> Another profession I looked into to the point where I had found a new truck for sixty large, all signage included. I'm not totally turned off to the tow truck idea. Since I sleep odd hours, and always have from the time of college, the thought of getting up at 3AM to head out into a stormy night to rescue some vehicle from the side of the road actually sounds like fun, to me.
> 
> The idea of popping for the sixty g's does not sit well with me, but I'm examining all angles, right now. Something's gotta give.



I would not want any writing on a repo truck.

general towing,yes.


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## pdqdl (Feb 5, 2010)

DOT says that you MUST have ID signs. 

I guess it would boil down to who you fear the most: the re-po'ed victims, or the DOT enforcement thugs.


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## tree MDS (Feb 5, 2010)

Now that true tv has "Operation Repo", I'm sure every moron and their brother will be trying to get into that biz anyway. I mean really if that bunch can do it?? c'mon! 

The dude who owns the local packie pays people to restore classic corvettes for his hobby. lol

Tree service??


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## Tree Pig (Feb 5, 2010)

pdqdl said:


> DOT says that you MUST have ID signs.
> 
> I guess it would boil down to who you fear the most: the re-po'ed victims, or the DOT enforcement thugs.



Guess it depends where you are here all wreckers for hire must be marked, repo and not for hire (private fleet tow trucks) do not need the markings.


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## pdqdl (Feb 5, 2010)

It won't matter where you are in the US, DOT says you must mark the truck. 

Here is the real question: will the truck in question be subject to DOT rules? In Kansas City, the DOT thugs will cite you for not having a DOT number even on a 6,000 GVRW pickup truck. Saying "not for hire" would not likely be enough to keep them at bay. They know better than that. You had better be able to PROVE that you are not making money with the truck. I imagine that would be difficult with a tow truck.


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## Lawnmowerboy48 (Feb 5, 2010)

Oil or auto parts is what I would do.


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## TimberMcPherson (Feb 5, 2010)

Start a business as a buyer/seller of stuff from the US to other countries that they otherwise cant direct order or its uneconomic to do so because of the 80 us dollar minimum fed ex seems to charge. (nothing like buying a quarter size bike part for 3$ and being hit $80 for shipping) or they wont accept orders from overseas visa's.

Overseas person contacts you with a net link to what they want, you give the a price for buying, receiving and sending via the postal system on the item plus a % mark up for your work. They deposit the money. Then you use there money to buy the item and forward it on to them. 

Bike parts, car parts, saw parts, saws etc etc etc. Dont know the legality of it but its a thought, especially with the way the dollar is at the moment.


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## 460magnumMOD (Feb 5, 2010)

I work for a septic company here in CT. Its good business. Everyones gotta go, and its gotta be taken care of. And if a septic system fails then the local and state health dept. require it be replaced. It ain't pretty, but its work.


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## jefflovstrom (Feb 5, 2010)

460magnumMOD said:


> I work for a septic company here in CT. Its good business. Everyones gotta go, and its gotta be taken care of. And if a septic system fails then the local and state health dept. require it be replaced. It ain't pretty, but its work.



####- Am I in the septic thread?
Jeff


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## urbanlogger52 (Feb 5, 2010)

Yeah with your training maby look at municipalities who are getting into risk management in their parks. Pays good and full pension. Also look at what your business generates. We sell our chips for $15 a truck load I know not much but it guarentees us a place to dump 5 minutes from City center. Here is the good one though . Where we dump the compost the chips fo a year and sell them for $20.00 a yard + delivery. Could get you into the black with out a hugh investment if you have the land. Value added stuff. Where I bought my 3 bucket truck they Bring all logs to their yard and firewood it there. It pays one full time workers wages. GIves all emploies firewood for the winter and generates enough CASH for the owner to take a 4 week vacation to somewhere warm every year with his family. Yeah here we are thinking the next year may not be much better than the last but there are sings of a turn. Just hang in and position yourself for the recovery. Best of luck


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## 460magnumMOD (Feb 6, 2010)

jefflovstrom said:


> ####- Am I in the septic thread?
> Jeff



With the lack of tree work it has gone from full time job to side job. Had to find something to bring in the money


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## Ax-man (Feb 6, 2010)

I know where your coming from Sunrise. We haven't made any real money all year and have been basically shut down since late November. We have always had some winter work even if they were just small jobs but it has been silent all winter except for a few firewood sales and even that has been slow. 

I am ready to throw the towel in also after almost 30 years in this business. I have been selling off equipment and saws we don't need just to keep some money coming in. I have even put in a few applications for a regular job but haven't heard anything yet.

I have never seen it this slow. It just isn't tree care, everyone is in the same miserable boat. Everyone I have talked to from guys in constuction,mechanics, painters, plumbers, electricians have all said the same thing not enough work and are struggling to pay their bills. Even my local Sthil dealer confided in me that he was hurting for sales and was looking for grant money to keep his business afloat. It is just bad all over.

I always thought heating and air conditioning would be a good field to get into. I would never start my own business doing it. 

Robotics is going to be a big field in the future. That is probaly a little too far into the future. 

Anything related to caring for our aging population is going to big. The leading edge of the baby boomer generation is already into retirement with the bulk of that generation to follow. 

Opening my own chainsaw shop is looking better and better. I doubt it will happen. 

I myself don't see this " recovery " either, once this bailout money that has been circulating fizzles out we will probaly take another nose dive in the economy.


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## BC WetCoast (Feb 6, 2010)

My long term idea for a retirement business is electric scooter and wheelchair repairs. With the aging population, I see scooter sales beginning rising in the future. 

If you can repair chainsaws, then with some training, you should have the ability to repair scooters.

The other idea is a independent home repair handyman. People may not be spending money on big reno's, but there will always be small things in a house that need repairs, and many people don't have the desire/ability to do it. Like tree work, it's in the marketing. My daughter used to be a receptionist for a company that dispatched independent handymen. They would get calls for handymen to put together IKEA furniture. It's a matter of finding a niche.


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## Ax-man (Feb 6, 2010)

BC WetCoast said:


> My long term idea for a retirement business is electric scooter and wheelchair repairs. With the aging population, I see scooter sales beginning rising in the future.
> 
> If you can repair chainsaws, then with some training, you should have the ability to repair scooters.



Not a bad idea. I do know this, retiring at age 65 is not going to be an option for me. I am going to have to do something for some income.


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## urbanlogger52 (Feb 6, 2010)

Here is another one. WE used to do about $38,000 a year doing stumps. We found it so boring we now only do stumps of trees we have cut down.I see a few stump guys have sprung up. Get a grinder and compain other tree services for their stumps. The grinder is realitivy safe and easy on the body work. Keeps ya in the trees kinda also. You can find some good buys here. http://treetrader.com/ Start with a older Say Rayco and get going. There are stumps everywhere.My former partner had a hand out and he would walk block after block putting them into mailboxes of places with stumps. Got maby 30 % call back. Later


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## BC WetCoast (Feb 6, 2010)

urbanlogger52 said:


> Here is another one. WE used to do about $38,000 a year doing stumps. We found it so boring we now only do stumps of trees we have cut down.I see a few stump guys have sprung up. Get a grinder and compain other tree services for their stumps. The grinder is realitivy safe and easy on the body work. Keeps ya in the trees kinda also. You can find some good buys here. http://treetrader.com/ Start with a older Say Rayco and get going. There are stumps everywhere.My former partner had a hand out and he would walk block after block putting them into mailboxes of places with stumps. Got maby 30 % call back. Later



Stump grinding in the US is a very competitive business, everyone and his dog buying a machine. The Comox Valley just hasn't caught up yethttp://www.arboristsite.com/images/smilies/smile.gif


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## clearance (Feb 6, 2010)

BC WetCoast said:


> Stump grinding in the US is a very competitive business, everyone and his dog buying a machine. The Comox Valley just hasn't caught up yethttp://www.arboristsite.com/images/smilies/smile.gif



I have cut many stumps off as flat as I could for people to put plant pots on them, when they heard about what it costs to grind them. I know it ain't much, they must have been traumatized from the removal price! Lol.


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## Sunrise Guy (Feb 7, 2010)

Ax-man said:


> I know where your coming from Sunrise. We haven't made any real money all year and have been basically shut down since late November. We have always had some winter work even if they were just small jobs but it has been silent all winter except for a few firewood sales and even that has been slow.
> 
> I am ready to throw the towel in also after almost 30 years in this business. I have been selling off equipment and saws we don't need just to keep some money coming in. I have even put in a few applications for a regular job but haven't heard anything yet.
> 
> ...



Good post, man. You echo my feelings, exactly. I tried getting into home healthcare for the elderly, about five years ago, but the red tape from the government was mind-numbing. Also, without an RN after my name, my options are limited. My gf works in healthcare, and that is one field that seems recession-proof, for the most part.


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## Sunrise Guy (Feb 7, 2010)

BC WetCoast said:


> My long term idea for a retirement business is electric scooter and wheelchair repairs. With the aging population, I see scooter sales beginning rising in the future.
> 
> If you can repair chainsaws, then with some training, you should have the ability to repair scooters.
> 
> The other idea is a independent home repair handyman. People may not be spending money on big reno's, but there will always be small things in a house that need repairs, and many people don't have the desire/ability to do it. Like tree work, it's in the marketing. My daughter used to be a receptionist for a company that dispatched independent handymen. They would get calls for handymen to put together IKEA furniture. It's a matter of finding a niche.



The scooter/power chair thing is the exact business my right-hand man's son-in-law owns and operates. He sells them, too. He is very well off, with the new house and Hummer. Austin has three major companies in that biz, and I don't think I want to be the fourth. Lots of federal red tape in that profession, too.

The home repair handyman is something I've done, before, and it is a bloated market, down here.

Hopefully my buddy in Florida will have some great, novel ideas for a business when I see him, this Tuesday. I'm getting in at 5PM and flying back the next day at Noon. We'll talk through the night and maybe come up with some great plans. A few tree jobs will round out the week, so at least I'll make a few bucks.


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## pdqdl (Feb 7, 2010)

Ax-man said:


> ...
> 
> Opening my own chainsaw shop is looking better and better. I doubt it will happen.
> ...



Probably not a good plan. 

If the chainsaw users are all out of work, do you suppose they will be needing their saws fixed?


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## woodchux (Feb 7, 2010)

460magnumMOD said:


> I work for a septic company here in CT. Its good business. Everyones gotta go, and its gotta be taken care of. And if a septic system fails then the local and state health dept. require it be replaced. It ain't pretty, but its work.



As long as people crap.... plumbers eat


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## fishercat (Feb 7, 2010)

*i think.*



pdqdl said:


> DOT says that you MUST have ID signs.
> 
> I guess it would boil down to who you fear the most: the re-po'ed victims, or the DOT enforcement thugs.



they mean the DOT #.that is all they have around here and they are strict here.


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## rogert906 (Feb 7, 2010)

i thought of this idea years ago, and i've heard of people doing it. on site oil changes. change oil in vehcles at the owners' workplace or right in their driveway. they also make furnaces that burn waste oil so you could potentially make money there also.


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## gr8scott72 (Feb 7, 2010)

rogert906 said:


> i thought of this idea years ago, and i've heard of people doing it. on site oil changes. change oil in vehcles at the owners' workplace or right in their driveway. they also make furnaces that burn waste oil so you could potentially make money there also.



Hard to compete with places doing 20 minute oil changes for $20 including a vacuum.


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## rogert906 (Feb 7, 2010)

i was thinking convenience. it might help volume. and remember no high dollar real estate or building costs. low upfront costs, and the kind of work an old tree trimmer should still be able to do. i guess if it was a REALLY good idea it would have already been exploited.


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## pdqdl (Feb 7, 2010)

fishercat said:


> they mean the DOT #.that is all they have around here and they are strict here.



I will check into that before I spout something I am not sure about. I do know that I have been given tickets for "company name not displayed" even though we had our DOT number on the truck.

I'll be looking for the DOT regulation...

Missouri formerly had laws that required the owner of every single pickup to have the owners name and address on the drivers side. You can still spot all the old 50's & 60's pickups in the junkyards with the lettering in place. Apparently that law was repealed or enforcement died out completely.


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## BC WetCoast (Feb 7, 2010)

Sunrise Guy said:


> The scooter/power chair thing is the exact business my right-hand man's son-in-law owns and operates. He sells them, too. He is very well off, with the new house and Hummer. Austin has three major companies in that biz, and I don't think I want to be the fourth. Lots of federal red tape in that profession, too.
> 
> .



I guess the way I see it, there are lots of car dealers with service departments, but that doesn't stop people from operating small independent car repair businesses. As the number of scooters grows, especially owned by people on fixed incomes, having a scooter repaired at rates lower than a 'big' operator is appealing.


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## treeseer (Feb 7, 2010)

Sunrise Guy said:


> If you were going to start up another business, what would that business be, based on where you feel there is a need out there that is not being met?



Tattooing is coming on fast, I hear. 

Seriously, sell arboriculture. If there were three of me, we'd all be busy.


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## pdqdl (Feb 7, 2010)

Chevrolet product repairs and parts sales.

Somebody will need to, and 1/2 the dealers are gone.


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## Sunrise Guy (Feb 7, 2010)

treeseer said:


> Tattooing is coming on fast, I hear.
> 
> Seriously, sell arboriculture. If there were three of me, we'd all be busy.



LOL! Good one! You obviously know that I owned and operated Crimson Dragon, the first licensed tattoo shop in the State of Texas (License # 000001) In '92 I was one of three shops, in Austin. When I got out, there were twenty-seven. Now there are over fifty! That gig messed up my back, big time, but since I was also doing trees, at the same time, I stayed in shape. Once I went with the trees, only, they started wearing down every other part of me. Well---almost every other part


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## tree md (Feb 7, 2010)

Sunrise Guy said:


> LOL! Good one! You obviously know that I owned and operated Crimson Dragon, the first licensed tattoo shop in the State of Texas (License # 000001) In '92 I was one of three shops, in Austin. When I got out, there were twenty-seven. Now there are over fifty! That gig messed up my back, big time, but since I was also doing trees, at the same time, I stayed in shape. Once I went with the trees, only, they started wearing down every other part of me. Well---almost every other part



I had a guy coming up out of Houston running them out of my house a couple of years ago. His mother and 2 brothers were neighbors. Both of his brothers worked as ground men for me at one point. The whole family ran tattoos. The guy from Houston owned three shops there but was in high demand here. This was back when tats were still outlawed in OK. The guy paid me to set up shop in my house. Really helped in the Wintertime while I was slow. We all made out.


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## Sunrise Guy (Feb 8, 2010)

tree md said:


> I had a guy coming up out of Houston running them out of my house a couple of years ago. His mother and 2 brothers were neighbors. Both of his brothers worked as ground men for me at one point. The whole family ran tattoos. The guy from Houston owned three shops there but was in high demand here. This was back when tats were still outlawed in OK. The guy paid me to set up shop in my house. Really helped in the Wintertime while I was slow. We all made out.



I remember folks coming in from OK, in the days I had my shop in Austin. I never understood how the ban was enforced.


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## tree md (Feb 8, 2010)

Sunrise Guy said:


> I remember folks coming in from OK, in the days I had my shop in Austin. I never understood how the ban was enforced.



This guy had a good name and was well known for his work. He was very good. He had a clientele and when he came into town it was spread word of mouth like wildfire. There was literally a line outside of my place of people waiting to get one.

I learned a lot about tattooing letting him work out of my place. He was very sanitary and everything had to be sterilized before he began work on someone. This was back when I still smoked cigarettes and he would not even allow smoking in the house when he worked. It was my house but he was paying me well and explained to me that the smoke in the air could cause infection to set in on the new tattoos. I had no problem making people step outside to smoke and doing so myself.

I was also surprised by the the clientele. The average customer was not your biker, gang member or anything like that. Sometimes it was football players (we did one for the quarterback of OSU) or a father getting one for himself and his son as a memorial to a son and brother who had died and sometimes it was your average mom who was getting the ink.

All of those tattoos going on and I never got one for myself. The guy told me he would do me one for free, anything I wanted. However, tats are still kind of stigmatized here. Little old ladies don't like guys working at their homes who are sleeved out in tats. I would have loved to have gotten one but I don't think it would have been too great for business. My ground guy who still works for me got one and I would have like to but thought better of it from a business standpoint. One day when I hit the lottery and don't have to deal with little old ladies in Tulsa anymore I will get me a good one.


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## fishercat (Feb 8, 2010)

*Wow.*



pdqdl said:


> I will check into that before I spout something I am not sure about. I do know that I have been given tickets for "company name not displayed" even though we had our DOT number on the truck.
> 
> I'll be looking for the DOT regulation...
> 
> Missouri formerly had laws that required the owner of every single pickup to have the owners name and address on the drivers side. You can still spot all the old 50's & 60's pickups in the junkyards with the lettering in place. Apparently that law was repealed or enforcement died out completely.



That's crazy.And I thought Connecticut was a bunch of loon balls.


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## woodchux (Feb 8, 2010)

pdqdl said:


> I will check into that before I spout something I am not sure about. I do know that I have been given tickets for "company name not displayed" even though we had our DOT number on the truck.
> 
> I'll be looking for the DOT regulation...
> 
> Missouri formerly had laws that required the owner of every single pickup to have the owners name and address on the drivers side. You can still spot all the old 50's & 60's pickups in the junkyards with the lettering in place. Apparently that law was repealed or enforcement died out completely.



I got pulled over last month for not having the company name on the bucket truck. DOT said to get it on there within 14 days.... must be something new.


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## pdqdl (Feb 8, 2010)

*That was easy.*

This took all of one minute to find. You had better put up your signs!

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/truck/vehicle/marking.htm

*Highlights of the Commercial Motor Vehicle Marking Final Rule*

1. Eliminates the marking regulations of the former Interstate Commerce Commission.
2. Requires all interstate motor carriers to display the USDOT number.
3. Requires that CMVs be marked with the legal name, or a single trade name, of the business entity that owns or controls the motor carrier operation. This information must match the information on the motor carrier's Form MCS-150 .
4. Motor carriers that are currently displaying an ICC-MC number will be allowed two years to comply with the requirement to affix the USDOT number to both sides of the CMVs that they currently have in service. New and repainted CMVs must be properly marked when they are placed in service.
5. Motor carriers will be allowed five years to comply with the additional requirements to display the legal name or single trade name on their CMVs currently in service. 

This is NOT a new rule boys! You are FOURTEEN years too late. Here is the history:

http://regulations.vlex.com/vid/motor-carrier-vehicle-marking-23375897

*On January 28, 1992*, the FHWA published a final rule (57 FR 3142) which required interstate motor carriers to mark their interstate CMVs with specific information, including the *USDOT number* (see 49 CFR 390.21) . The *final rule*, however, provided an exception for ICC authorized for-hire motor carriers that complied with the marking requirements formerly in 49 CFR part 1058, now redesignated as 49 CFR 390.401, 390.403, 390.405, and 390.407 (61 FR 54706, 54710, October 21, 1996). The ICC Termination Act of 1995 (ICCTA) (Pub. L. 104-88, 109 Stat. 803) was enacted on December 29, 1995, and *became effective on January 1, 1996.*


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## ChiHD (Feb 9, 2010)

Sunrise Guy said:


> I'm getting very close to throwing in the towel. I don't care what is being said on the news. I know, very well, that our economy is limping along and may take another nosedive within the next year. Tree care is NOT a big priority to most, when everyone is worrying about their own incomes.
> 
> My question: If you were going to start up another business, what would that business be, based on where you feel there is a need out there that is not being met? Obviously we can all joke around on this, and, hey, that's cool with me, as long as some of you can come up with some business pursuits you honestly think may be the next "big thing."
> 
> Thanks, in advance. Hopefully business will pick up and I'll get out of my funk.





I'm sure you did this already but just in case.

I went through my whole customer list from the last 7 years and sent out a newsletter to everyone (over 1000 people) thanking them for their business, offering free detailed assesments/reports and advertizing our essential services at a discounted price. I also explained to them what their money was getting when they hired us by comparing myself to my competition, and outlining my different insurances and education/certifications. I have had a few jobs come in and am expecting more as the spring approaches.

Like us, you seem to have a lot of legit credentials. Sometimes your customers just need to be reminded why you are the best choice for them and where their money is going.

I've scaled down my employees and payroll and don't mind if jobs are now taking us longer to complete.

Lastly, stay positive. Stay busy. Are your trucks lettered up? If so what is the busiest area of your town? Park the truck there for a few hours! Join a business networking group (better yet start one!), put some free talks on at your local greenhouse or gardeners meeting. People want to feel like you care, not just that you want their money.

Hope this helps and good luck.


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## ForTheArborist (Feb 9, 2010)

Selling off stuff is definitely something to do to get out from under payments and taking back some of that investment money put in it. In a vague way renting it out is something else. A lot of people just rent out what ever they have like an extra room in the attic or camper. Either way this is a long drawn out process that doesn't need to get started too late because it is going to take a while to sell during these times. Down sizing looks to me like a 1-2 year evolution, and if your credit is good, you can buy everything you need again at the turn of the dime.

From what I've learned in business classes is that down sizing is key in situations like these. I've learned that the big companies break like titanics and little companies are much more apt at just being bounced around but keeping it together though. Mitigating your company's assets will mean you are working more hours on jobs because you don't have the big equipment, but your prices can then be competitive in times when that is all that counts. The idea is to keep money trickling across your hands. 

I know that who ever has the strategy or financial depth to stick it out through the low economy will come up better when times get better. All of those trees being put off are going to have to be handled sooner or later. When things are doing better, those HOs are going to all call tree services at once. The companies that bottomed out will be late getting to all of that money, and many won't even be back to this business for more ever again. This means even more rewards for those that are waiting and ready for all of that surplus of business once things get going again.


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## treeslayer (Feb 9, 2010)

well said, and the truth. when it rains, it pours in this business, but ya gotta still be in it when it starts.


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## kevincharles3 (Feb 9, 2010)

*Forestry Supervisor Position*

There is a forestry (arboriculture) position open for Louisville Metro Parks: http://www.mycareernetwork.com/clientResumeMgr/?cid=1482&ViewAll=YP&first=true


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## ChiHD (Feb 9, 2010)

ForTheAction said:


> Selling off stuff is definitely something to do to get out from under payments and taking back some of that investment money put in it. In a vague way renting it out is something else. A lot of people just rent out what ever they have like an extra room in the attic or camper. Either way this is a long drawn out process that doesn't need to get started too late because it is going to take a while to sell during these times. Down sizing looks to me like a 1-2 year evolution, and if your credit is good, you can buy everything you need again at the turn of the dime.
> 
> From what I've learned in business classes is that down sizing is key in situations like these. I've learned that the big companies break like titanics and little companies are much more apt at just being bounced around but keeping it together though. Mitigating your company's assets will mean you are working more hours on jobs because you don't have the big equipment, but your prices can then be competitive in times when that is all that counts. The idea is to keep money trickling across your hands.
> 
> I know that who ever has the strategy or financial depth to stick it out through the low economy will come up better when times get better. All of those trees being put off are going to have to be handled sooner or later. When things are doing better, those HOs are going to all call tree services at once. The companies that bottomed out will be late getting to all of that money, and many won't even be back to this business for more ever again. This means even more rewards for those that are waiting and ready for all of that surplus of business once things get going again.



:agree2:

well said.


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## tree md (Feb 9, 2010)

I have been around this racket a little while and I have seen first hand who makes it and who doesn't. 

The carpenter who moonlights as a tree service will not make it in this business environment. Especially if he got himself stretched out with credit.

The ones who make it are either the old guys who have been in it forever, have all of their stuff paid for or the old timers who know how to live small, have all their stuff paid for and really don't know anything else. 

The guys who have made this a career and know how to improvise, adapt and persevere will always be around.


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## jefflovstrom (Feb 9, 2010)

O.K. post ,FTA, but one error, not all big companies break like the Titanic. 2009 was our best year and I am booked all year, every year and we dont advertise. I hired 4 guys in the last six moths and will probably hire another 2 or 3 within the next few months. These storms bring alot of work for me but it also sets back my clients that are on 3 to 5 year maintenance plans. So technically, we are solid for years to come. If I get a request for a reidential job, I refer them to a couple of companies I have known for many years. 
Jeff


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## Tree Dr. (Feb 9, 2010)

*outside the box*

2009 was the slowest year for tree work I have seen yet. I have all my business equipment for sale on arboristsite. I am hoping to stay in the game because I am sure things will improve. Last November I thought to myself think outside the box I.e. don't market to the same residential customers who are broke and looking for the lowest price right now. I found a job the next day in the challenge course/ropes course industry based on my arborist experience. There is still work you just need to work harder for less$:monkey:


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## ozarktreeman (Feb 9, 2010)

pdqdl said:


> This took all of one minute to find. You had better put up your signs!
> 
> http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/truck/vehicle/marking.htm
> 
> ...



Man! You always have to put the man down with that brain of yours.LOL.:wave:
 But really reading that I have to get legal with all my country arse stuff.Thats going to cost me.
But hey all the kids around here are hollering for tats so maybe:rockn: open up a tat slash removal shop.


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## jefflovstrom (Feb 10, 2010)

Tree Dr. said:


> 2009 was the slowest year for tree work I have seen yet. I have all my business equipment for sale on arboristsite. I am hoping to stay in the game because I am sure things will improve. Last November I thought to myself think outside the box I.e. don't market to the same residential customers who are broke and looking for the lowest price right now. I found a job the next day in the challenge course/ropes course industry based on my arborist experience. There is still work you just need to work harder for less$:monkey:



I looked up the word "oxymoron" , It said "I want to sell all my business equiptment ,but hope to stay in the field". Weird.
Jeff


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## Tree Dr. (Feb 10, 2010)

*oxymoron?*

I am still working in the "field" of arboriculture so doesn't seem to moronic to me.


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## TreeWhitelock (Feb 10, 2010)

Its definitely rough on the Tree care industry now. But the Tree dr is right rope access work and high angle jobs never go away. From high rise window washing to Windmill energy.


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## mckeetree (Feb 10, 2010)

Tree Dr. said:


> I am still working in the "field" of arboriculture so doesn't seem to moronic to me.



He was talking about an oxymoron, you didn't........ah forget it.


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## jefflovstrom (Feb 10, 2010)

Tree Dr. said:


> I am still working in the "field" of arboriculture so doesn't seem to moronic to me.



I did not say "moronic" , that is a different word than "oxymoron", Two different words, moron is another word, not meant the same way.
Jeff


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## B-Edwards (Feb 11, 2010)

Move to my area, no professionals here. I been out of business for two years because of a heart attack and my phone is still ringing. Great opportunity for someone here but not a hack, we got plenty of those now.

Wife is a nurse has a masters in Healthcare. We started a Home health care business that does nursing OT PT ST , all skilled care services before I had the heart attack (well around the same time but a little before). We havent done the aid or sitter service very much as it seems people you can hire to do that are the wives or girl friends of the guys I worked in tree biz .I'm not putting everyone who does this down as my mom is in her 70's and is still woorking as an aide. Dont know why she doesnt retire and just DRAW A CHECK .We are able to hire people now who arent dope heads or drunks ,come in on time, dont miss mondays,have a drivers license, have a car, dont have to miss work eveyother day for some bs with social services, they are not asking for money before they ever do any work, we can leave them at thier job and know it will be done CORRECT, we even bought new vehicles for them and OMG they keep them clean!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I miss tree work but I dont miss working with fools.


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