# Killed my Dolmar 5100S??



## fsfcks (Nov 28, 2008)

This is not looking good. I was cutting Osage Orange today and the saw started to cut out by itself. So I left the saw off and did other stuff. After about 20 minutes I could not start the saw - there was no combustion turn over at all on pulling the starter. It seemed just like vapor lock since the cylinder was dry, but after 2 hours the saw was cold, the cylinder would get vapor/fuel, but still no combustion on starting. I also noticed that it was slightly harder to pull on the starter - not a lot, just enough that it would not "free run" like it sometimes does. (Now I suspect piston drag.)

At home 3 hours later I still have same problem. I have tried a different spark plug, a clean filter, and visually checked the spark (seems ok). I do not have a compression tester but have just tried the thumb over spark plug hole test and it did not pop off. So that means low compression? I never did that test before so not sure what to expect.

So it sounds like something bad inside the cylinder. What should/can I test now? Or what part(s) need replaced?

I am mechanically handy, but haven't much time with 2-cycle engines, and do not have specialist tools. I'm guessing I need new piston ring, maybe new cylinder head, and I do not know about the piston.

The alternative is to find a local Dolmar dealer or other small engine place and have them do the work.

And I think I need a more powerful chainsaw for Osage Orange! That stuff is tough.


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## GASoline71 (Nov 28, 2008)

Pull the muffler off and look at the piston and cylinder...

You'll know immediately if there is any scoring and damage...

Gary


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## woodcutter69 (Nov 28, 2008)

I now have a 5100 in the shop for warrantry repair. bought brand new about 3 months ago, ran fine for maybe 3 tanks full. took it back to the dealer and waited 3 weeks for a response regardless that I called 3 times, now finally got the answer that they approved to work on the saw. I am now thinking that dolmar saws are not all that good regardless of all the high regards towards this saw. About 8 years ago I bought a husky 372xp off the internet and never a problem yet with the saw never seen a repair shop yet,


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## fsfcks (Nov 28, 2008)

GASoline...with the angled exhaust port it is hard to see, but it looks like there are small vertical scores on the piston at the exhaust port and maybe also on the cylinder wall at the exhaust port. The cylinder wall on the opposite side (at carb inlet) looks smooth. Without taking it apart I can't see more.

I've always thought my saw ran 'hot' temperature wise from new. I had a dealer check the carb settings, and I checked them too, and every time I checked it was running within rpm limits.

woodcutter...what was the problem with your saw?

After-thought: Osage Orange does not chip when cut, it turns to dust, even with a very sharp chain (which would nicely chip softer wood like Eastern Red Cedar). I've noticed some dust in the past inside the flock air filter and at the carb entrance. Since I was exclusively cutting Osage Orange this morning, I wonder if enough dust got past the filter to damage the cylinder? There was more oily dust than normal at the carb entrance when I changed the filter, even although the filter I removed was pretty clean. I've seen the Dolmar dust issue commented on this site before.


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## woodcutter69 (Nov 28, 2008)

I dont know yet, still at the repair shop. I took it in because it would die in the middle of the cut when warm, let cool down about 1 hour and would start run fine until warm, then it got to where it wouldnt start at all, took to dealer and have not heard back except they will pay for the repair. I am now looking for a more reliable saw. maybe another husky or stihl or even a john deere.


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## windthrown (Nov 28, 2008)

Dolmar... :monkey:


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## huskystihl (Nov 28, 2008)

We fried two 5100's. The first straight up seized and the second slowly lost power/compression and they were both under warranty. Myself and the dealer who just picked up the dolmar line felt it was a filtration problem as more than one occasion there was dirt inside the filter. Luckily my family over the years had bought a-lot of husky's off of him so he just gave us shop credit and now only special orders dolmar. I have heard from him that the 7900's he had ordered have been solid but none the less i'm done with Dolmar, but thats just me


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## Adirondack (Nov 28, 2008)

I was talking to the dolmar dealer in the area about any problems they have seen with dolmar saws. He said the only problem was with the 5100. A customer had a saw lock up. Dolmar inspected it and found out the piston rings were not getting enough oil when run at speeds lower than full speed for cutting. He said this was only a problem with the 5100 and this was not a problem on the bigger saws. He has had only satisfied customers with the 6400, 7300 and 7900. That was another reason why I purchased the 7900.


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## skinnykid02 (Nov 28, 2008)

Are you guys trying to make me change my mind on a Dolmar 510 or 5100s?

I was excited thinking I finally made up my mind but now your making me sketchy!
I changed my mind from a stihl ms260 pro due to price and go with the Dolmar.

Now I am just confused again!


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## Bowtie (Nov 28, 2008)

fsfcks said:


> The alternative is to find a local Dolmar dealer or other small engine place and have them do the work.
> 
> And I think I need a more powerful chainsaw for Osage Orange! That stuff is tough.



Where you at in Kansas? When I had my 7900 i searched for Dolmar dealers, and found a few, but I called them and they all sounded lame. They had never heard of a 7900 or a 5100.

I cut a cord and a half of Osage orange today, and damn right that stuff is tough. If it is dead wood, no chips with this stuff, its all fine dust. Hell on chains and air filters.


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## huskystihl (Nov 28, 2008)

skinnykid02 said:


> Are you guys trying to make me change my mind on a Dolmar 510 or 5100s?
> 
> I was excited thinking I finally made up my mind but now your making me sketchy!
> I changed my mind from a stihl ms260 pro due to price and go with the Dolmar.
> ...



I've heard a lot of guys on here just talk about cuttin and cuttin with em with no problems. I wouldn't be afraid to spend the xtra on a time tested saw like the 260 if moneys not the issue though.


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## ericjeeper (Nov 28, 2008)

*In my minds way of thinking..*

If dust in the cylinder was the issue.. The scoring would be on the intake side, not on the exhaust side.


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## CharlieG (Nov 28, 2008)

My Makita/Dolmar has been a solid runner for a short while. Only time will tell. Of the thousands of saws they put out, some may have problems other saws have. Bad carb boots, fuel lines, etc.


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## grandpatractor (Nov 28, 2008)

ericjeeper said:


> If dust in the cylinder was the issue.. The scoring would be on the intake side, not on the exhaust side.



Yup, scoring on the exhaust side is more likely from a lean condition or a fuel issue like ethanol gas.


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## fsfcks (Nov 28, 2008)

Bowtie...I live in south Kansas City (near Overland Park) but my land (and trees) are west of Ottawa, near the Franklin/Osage county line. The pastures I am trying to restore (clear) have lots of Eastern Red Cedar, Honey Locust, and of course Osage Orange. I will have plenty of firewood if I can cut it 

skinnykid...What wood are you cutting? My 5100 loved softwoods like Eastern Red Cedar and Elm. I now think it might be under-powered for Osage Orange, which is almost stone (lots of silica). That was running .050" 3/8" chain on a 16' bar. Even when I get my 5100 fixed, I'm now looking at getting a 70cc saw for Osage Orange.

Re the scoring. Since I haven't taken it apart, and the spark plug and exhaust port are so small, I'm not certain exactly what is going on. Based on the comments here I'm going to take the saw back to the dealer and see if this is a warranty issue. The lack of oil to the piston rings at less than normal full cutting speed could be a possibility when cutting hardwood.


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## ericjeeper (Nov 28, 2008)

*Thinking of the lubricating issues at mid throttle.*

On a carb there are two jets, High and Low. A 2 stroke chainsaw engine is designed to either idle or run wide open. So it could be possible I suppose.


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## fsfcks (Nov 28, 2008)

Eric...I always cut at full throttle, but in harder wood the saw does not always run at the same full cutting speed that it does in soft wood. I read the previous comments as applying to that situation.


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## Bowtie (Nov 28, 2008)

fsfcks said:


> Bowtie...I live in south Kansas City (near Overland Park) but my land (and trees) are west of Ottawa, near the Franklin/Osage county line. The pastures I am trying to restore (clear) have lots of Eastern Red Cedar, Honey Locust, and of course Osage Orange. I will have plenty of firewood if I can cut it



Cool. I lived in Ottawa in 02' and 03'. I helped build all the bridges on I-35 from the LeLoup exit down to the hiway 59 exit by Wal Mart. I love burning Honey Locust, but the thorns are too much on some, lol. Sorry to hear about your 5100S, I had a deal in the works to trade my 026 for one. I use a 50cc for small stuff on hedge, but if Its over 12" I use the 361 or 044.

You west coast boys might laugh at that, but Osage Orange, especially standing dead, is crazy hard wood. Even fresh sharpened or new Stihl chain almost acts like a half dull chain in softer hardwood like hackberry.


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## cuttinscott (Nov 28, 2008)

grandpatractor said:


> Yup, scoring on the exhaust side is more likely from a lean condition or a fuel issue like ethanol gas.



+1 The majority of 5100 issues stem from E10 or greater gas. The Mobil in town is at 6% and have had no issues with their gas but the Gulf and the no name chain store brand both have tested very near 9-10% which is in the danger zone. We have recommended richening the fuel mix from 50-1 down to 40-1 and strongly recommend the use of Dolmar's Synthetic Oil.


Scott


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## skinnykid02 (Nov 28, 2008)

fsfcks;1246961
skinnykid...What wood are you cutting? My 5100 loved softwoods like Eastern Red Cedar and Elm. I now think it might be under-powered for Osage Orange said:


> Oak, Maple, Birch, Ash, Pine


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## skinnykid02 (Nov 28, 2008)

Cuttinscott: how much for a 5100s? I got a price of $325 for the 510.


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## Javelin (Nov 28, 2008)

I have had a couple of 5100's that have failed due to fuel! Rich up the fuel and the high jet seems to solve the problem.


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## grandpatractor (Nov 28, 2008)

skinnykid02 said:


> Cuttinscott: how much for a 5100s? I got a price of $325 for the 510.



Amick's list them at 510-329.95 and 5100 - 394.95


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## skinnykid02 (Nov 28, 2008)

Still about $125 less than the original saw that I wanted! NICE!!:chainsawguy:


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## woodcutter69 (Nov 28, 2008)

I did notice dirt on the inside of my filter, after I run only about 3 tanks full of fuel thru it. I was dead set on getting a ms260, now wish I would of spent the extra money and got one. I do not like getting a brand new saw and it is in the shop for 3 weeks until I hear that they just got the approval to work on it, that does not say much for there saws or there dealers. My dealer was a napa auto parts store, go figure. Any one thinking of getting a Dolmar, dont waste your money.


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## skinnykid02 (Nov 28, 2008)

I was also dead set on a MS260 pro. I need to spend wisely and the least.

From all my searching and asking tons of questions, Dolmar seems to be a good value.


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## windthrown (Nov 28, 2008)

cuttinscott said:


> +1 The majority of 5100 issues stem from E10 or greater gas. The Mobil in town is at 6% and have had no issues with their gas but the Gulf and the no name chain store brand both have tested very near 9-10% which is in the danger zone. We have recommended richening the fuel mix from 50-1 down to 40-1 and strongly recommend the use of Dolmar's Synthetic Oil.
> 
> Scott



Well, just about all the gas that you can get out here in the west now is E-10 which is 10% ethanol. So if Dolmars have problem with that, then there is going to be an issue running them out here. I have run E-10 super in all my Stihls and I have had no big problems using it. I also only use full synthetic; Mobil 1 or Elf at about 45:1. 

But again, that is in Stihl saws. :yoyo:


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## Kydan (Nov 28, 2008)

It sounds like the Dolmar 5100 likes to run wide open, and little richer hmmm. Does it state that in the owners manual I doubt, ? From what I heard it's a good saw. Maybe some bad one's got out in the mix? But with a little richer mix I've had good luck so far with all my saws. But I've never own a Dolmar' but wanted to try one out.


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## fsfcks (Nov 29, 2008)

Yup, Missouri is mandatory E10 and on the Kansas City Kansas side, because it comes from the same distributor, it is also E10.


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## cuttinscott (Nov 29, 2008)

fsfcks said:


> Yup, Missouri is mandatory E10 and on the Kansas City Kansas side, because it comes from the same distributor, it is also E10.



If your ONLY fuel choice is E10 then run it richer like 40-1, USE FRESH GAS no more that 3 weeks old and use synthetic oil and shake the gas can and or saw to blend the fuel before each use.

Scott


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## Lakeside53 (Nov 29, 2008)

I can't see E10 being an issue UNLESS the saw was factory tuned on non-alcohol gas and set on the bleeding edge of "too lean", and the user didn't retune when using alcohol. The limiter caps are set (by EPA requirement) so no further enrichment is allowed by the end user. If this is the case, Dolmar needs to wake up to the market reality. 


Stihl's have been tuned in VA Beach since Jan 2007 on E10 no matter the market destination, but even on earlier saws, I've seen few issues. I don't see issues with separation or excessively quick gas aging. We tell our customers 60-90 days, and I go way beyond that on some of my saws.

IMHO... E10 is way too easy a target for blame.


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## cuttinscott (Nov 29, 2008)

Lakeside53 said:


> I can't see E10 being an issue UNLESS the saw was factory tuned on non-alcohol gas and set on the bleeding edge of "too lean", and the user didn't retune when using alcohol. The limiter caps are set (by EPA requirement) so no further enrichment is allowed by the end user. If this is the case, Dolmar needs to wake up to the market reality.
> 
> 
> Stihl's have been tuned in VA Beach since Jan 2007 on E10 no matter the market destiantion, but even on earlier saws, I've seen few issues.



Dolmars are STILL made in Germany and no they don't tune on E10 at the factory. Its up to the SELLING DEALER to make sure the saw is tuned for his or her geographical area


Scott


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## fsfcks (Nov 29, 2008)

cuttinscott...interesting. I think the limiter caps were set for regular gas. I could never richen the high jet. I'll need to talk to the dealer about that.


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## Lakeside53 (Nov 29, 2008)

Cuttin - That's scary - some dealers shouldn't be allowed to touch a carb, any brand 

How can they get EPA approval to do that? Are they shipped to the dealers with limiter caps not set? Pulling the cap and setting them richer busts any EPA approvals (don't get me started on how stupid this is).

The Stihl factory in also Germany uses the specific EPA approved E10 (it's shipped from the USA) to tune saws (200, 441, 460, 660, 880 etc) sent to USA.


I suspect the Dolmars are factory set really lean to meet EPA... and dealers don't adjust them, or don't know how. Every one I've seen (yep, just a handful) are all set way too lean... (as are some small Stihls..)


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## cuttinscott (Nov 29, 2008)

Lakeside53 said:


> Cuttin - That's scary - some dealers shouldn't be allowed to touch a carb, any brand
> 
> How can they get EPA approval to do that? Are they shipped to the dealers with limiter caps not set? Pulling the cap and setting them richer busts any EPA approvals (don't get me started on how stupid this is).
> 
> The Stihl factory in also Germany uses the specific EPA approved E10 (it's shipped from the USA) to tune saws (200, 441, 460, 660, 880 etc) sent to USA.



I don't pull caps to get them adjusted right...


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## Bowtie (Nov 29, 2008)

I think part of it is that most saws sold here in the midwest are sold to people that wont use them much. Thats what I think a lot of local dealers believe. Add in the lazy and "I dont give a flip" factor and there ya go. This isnt big logging country where it becomes a staple for new saws to be spot on due to the knowledge of the end user, so it seems to me to be normal for dealers for the most part to be idiots here. I called my dealer about a new MS440 2 weeks ago. (we all know they are all but gone) He said "Sure I got 2 in stock!" I said 440 or 441? he said "441 is the same thing, just 1 digit difference and flippy caps"


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## Kydan (Nov 29, 2008)

Dolmars are STILL made in Germany and no they don't tune on E10 at the factory. Its up to the SELLING DEALER to make sure the saw is tuned for his or her geographical area

Very Good statement .problems could be buying mail orders, not a dealer


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## windthrown (Nov 29, 2008)

Lakeside53 said:


> Dolmar needs to wake up to the market reality.



You can say that about Dolmar on several fronts... :taped:

Hard to believe though... much of the gas in the states is E-10.


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## Airecon (Nov 29, 2008)

I recently got a 5100 and both the H and L screws were almost all the way out to the limiter- the manual says this is the factory setting. I put a tach on it at factory setting, I forget the rpm, but it wasn't max. I leaned it out to 14,200 I think. I don't think I readjusted the L screw. Hope I set things right. I'm running Dolmar oil at 50-1. I was cutting today and ripping a few logs. Seems like it was fairly hot, but it might be normal. 

Do you Dolmar dealers think I should go to 40-1 and richen up the H screw? If I do, you think I'll have to remove the limiter to set it close to max rpm?


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## Andyshine77 (Nov 29, 2008)

The 5100 has a few major design flaws. You would think a manufacture like Dolmar, would have tested their products before they started selling them.


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## Jacob J. (Nov 29, 2008)

If any of you guys end up needing a new 5100 piston and ring, I got an extra.


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## mountainlake (Nov 29, 2008)

Javelin said:


> I have had a couple of 5100's that have failed due to fuel! Rich up the fuel and the high jet seems to solve the problem.



About time someone hit the nail on the head, those factory RPM spec are what they need to print to keep the EPA happy, a little lean, then use gas with ethonal it just gets worse. Steve


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## mountainlake (Nov 29, 2008)

And put a 325 chain on, it won't lug your engine as bad and should cut faster in bigger wood. Steve


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## SawTroll (Nov 29, 2008)

skinnykid02 said:


> Are you guys trying to make me change my mind on a Dolmar 510 or 5100s?
> 
> I was excited thinking I finally made up my mind but now your making me sketchy!
> I changed my mind from a stihl ms260 pro due to price and go with the Dolmar.
> ...




Get a Husky NE346xp, and be done with all worries! :yoyo: :yoyo: :rockn:


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## SawTroll (Nov 29, 2008)

fsfcks said:


> Eric...I always cut at full throttle, but in harder wood the saw does not always run at the same full cutting speed that it does in soft wood. I read the previous comments as applying to that situation.


"Halv throttle" should not be a problem then, but maybe you overheat the saw by simply overtaxing it - lighten the pressure on the saw when it starts to bog, let it rev up before you continue the cut.....


...and I think .325x7 is a good idea in that wood!

Never had _any_ kind of trouble with the 5100SH I got for Witchy - it started out at 14200rpm, and I just richened the L a tad in an attempt to make it accellerate better - it helped, but it still is is nowhere close to my 361 and 346 in that respect......


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## huskystihl (Nov 29, 2008)

Andyshine77 said:


> The 5100 has a few major design flaws. You would think a manufacture like Dolmar, would have tested their products before they started selling them.



Yeah they don't last. Any saw that runs 14'500 out of the box and even brags about it on the air filter cover, not to mention runs $100-200 less than their two nearest competitors should make the consumer think. The 7900 sounds like a much better built product but as a new dolmar user I wasn't dumping the loot right off the bat for the big saw until I made sure that the quality was there. And i'm sorry I ran the 7900 at the dealer and it wasn't much more performance wise than my 460 especially if it last as long as the 5100's that were crap. Even if it was 150 less. Maybe dolmar should worry about a quality saw instead of one that brags about cutting speed. The market they wanna target would much rather appreciate it.


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## huskystihl (Nov 29, 2008)

SawTroll said:


> Get a Husky NE346xp, and be done with all worries! :yoyo: :yoyo: :rockn:



True there. I don't have one but I do run a 260 and have ran a 346 and must say they are two of the most reliable and finest saws in their class. Run a 325 16"


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## sugarbush (Nov 29, 2008)

SawTroll said:


> Get a Husky NE346xp, and be done with all worries! :yoyo: :yoyo: :rockn:



yup, and put a 3/8's chain full chisel, 18 or 20" bar, should rip right through that dry hardwood.


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## cuttinscott (Nov 29, 2008)

sugarbush said:


> yup, and put a 3/8's chain full chisel, 18 or 20" bar, should rip right through that dry hardwood.



Will it LOLOL cause my 2153 won't even come close to having the torque to pull 3/8" 18" in hardwood and I even paid the muffler tax.......




Scott


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## cuttinscott (Nov 29, 2008)

Hey Andy so why is it that the 260 pro is a little more that $100 more than a PS5100................. Ohh thats right steal dealers need to make more $$ to pay for corporate advertising..............MANDATORY





Scott


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## JTElectric (Nov 29, 2008)

"Dolmar 5100's are the cat's pajamas!! You should all get one!!"


"Hey, wait, that guy had a problem with his saw, they all must be junk!! Get rid of these pieces of crap!!!"


"Did you hear that? Someone said Stihl isn't the Holy Grail! Grab your pitchforks, let's get em'!!!"


I love AS, however, I think it's very amusing sometimes. Continue!

Oh yeah, and I'll keep using my 5100 thank you very much. I know, it's an inferior product, and will shatter like an old cookie next time I use it, but I'm just not worthy of being on Stihl's payroll yet.  haha


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## THALL10326 (Nov 29, 2008)

*Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwww*

This thread is turning into a pizzing contest. Don't understand why. A 5100 bites the dust, so what, hell all saws, no matter the brand, bite the dust now and then.


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## JTElectric (Nov 29, 2008)

+100 :agree2:


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## Ole Farmerbuck (Nov 29, 2008)

cuttinscott said:


> Will it LOLOL cause my 2153 won't even come close to having the torque to pull 3/8" 18" in hardwood and I even paid the muffler tax.......
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I cut a lot of locust yesterday with my NE346xp. Running 3/8 LGX, 28" Dolmar bar. I was amazed how long the lgx stayed sharp. The little 346 amazed myself and the others watching, sailed right through it!


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## Zodiac45 (Nov 29, 2008)

THALL10326 said:


> This thread is turning into a pizzing contest. Don't understand why. A 5100 bites the dust, so what, hell all saws, no matter the brand, bite the dust now and then.



Exactly right Tommy. You wise old sage. Happy Holidays


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## Lakeside53 (Nov 29, 2008)

cuttinscott said:


> Hey Andy so why is it that the 260 pro is a little more that $100 more than a PS5100................. Ohh thats right steal dealers need to make more $$ to pay for corporate advertising..............MANDATORY
> 
> 
> Scott




Which Andy? Oh well, I'm one...

It's because they can... in other words,.. customers keep on buying them.. Maybe it's because they only last 20 years of hard use. lolol

Dolmar should be thankful Stihl has a much more expensive similar sized saw . Image how it would screw their market if the 260 was $100 cheaper :greenchainsaw: 

Hey... maybe Dolmar should advertise too Oh.. BTW... the advertising contribution to Corp is 1%.... of cost, so $3-$4 on a 260.


So... 

None of this matters anyhow -all of these "old" saws (all brands) will be gone in year, replaced with the heavier, more plastic, leaner versions.. Such fun..


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## THALL10326 (Nov 29, 2008)

Zodiac45 said:


> Exactly right Tommy. You wise old sage. Happy Holidays



Back at ya friend. Hey wait a dayummm minute, who ya calling old, I'll be uhhhhhhhhh 28 next month. Ok, that was 23 year gap lie,LOLOL


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## Lakeside53 (Nov 29, 2008)

Zodiac45 said:


> Exactly right Tommy. You wise old sage. Happy Holidays



Yep he sure does smell like OLD SAGE, particularty the week after turkey day...


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## THALL10326 (Nov 29, 2008)

Lakeside53 said:


> Yep he sure does smell like OLD SAGE, particularty the week after turkey day...




I must confess I made out this Thanksgiving a whole lot better than the turkey did,LOLOL


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## SawTroll (Nov 29, 2008)

sugarbush said:


> yup, and put a 3/8's chain full chisel, 18 or 20" bar, should rip right through that dry hardwood.




It sure is better with a 16" and .325 (well haven't tried 3/8" yet, but gut feeling say .325 with LP or RSC chain)........


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## THALL10326 (Nov 29, 2008)

SawTroll said:


> It sure is better with a 16" and .325 (well haven't tried 3/8" yet, but gut feeling say .325 with LP or RSC chain)........



The 346 and 5100 both do just fine with a .325 chain. I see no reason to put a 3/8 chain on either one of them unless its just a personal preferance.


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## Magellan (Nov 29, 2008)

JTElectric said:


> Oh yeah, and I'll keep using my 5100 thank you very much. I know, it's an inferior product, and will shatter like an old cookie next time I use it, but I'm just not worthy of being on Stihl's payroll yet.  haha


Hear, hear. 

My 5100 came out of the box running lean, so I set the mix richer. This is SOP on any two-cycle.

The first two gallons of gas were Opti2 mixed as the pillow pack recommended and she ran fine. I didn't like how lean the Opti2 was so when I ran out, I switched over to Bailey's full synthetic (mixed at 45:1) with 93 octane and she's running even better. When I run out of Bailey's I'll probably try some Stihl Ultra, at which point she may run even better still.


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## Trigger-Time (Nov 29, 2008)

Magellan said:


> Hear, hear.
> 
> My 5100 came out of the box running lean, so I set the mix richer. This is SOP on any two-cycle.
> 
> The first two gallons of gas were Opti2 mixed as the pillow pack recommended and she ran fine. I didn't like how lean the Opti2 was so when I ran out, I switched over to Bailey's full synthetic (mixed at 45:1) with 93 octane and she's running even better. When I run out of Bailey's I'll probably try some Stihl Ultra, at which point she may run even better still.




I think the Optic pillow pack is like a 71:1 mix.....if it's the 1.8 oz pack for 1 gallon of gas.


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## Javelin (Nov 29, 2008)

The failure's I had were with the fuel and opti! like I said richen up the fuel and carb no problems!


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## forestryworks (Nov 29, 2008)

Bowtie said:


> I called my dealer about a new MS440 2 weeks ago. (we all know they are all but gone) He said "Sure I got 2 in stock!" I said 440 or 441? he said "441 is the same thing, just 1 digit difference and flippy caps"



that sounds like my dealer :monkey: , are you sure you didn't call him? haha


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## Lakeside53 (Nov 29, 2008)

You guys expect too much.. At least he can count


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## Magellan (Nov 29, 2008)

Trigger-Time said:


> I think the Optic pillow pack is like a 71:1 mix.....if it's the 1.8 oz pack for 1 gallon of gas.


Yeah, that's why I switched. Synthetic blend or not, my gut was telling me that's just too thin.


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## Javelin (Nov 29, 2008)

I have one guy here running amzoil at the100:1 but I set it rich on the carb and it has been fine for over a year now! I in my personal saws use Petron Plus synthetic at 50:1 with no issues!


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## SwampBuck (Nov 29, 2008)

68 replies, a lot of them belly achin' about an entire brand because one guy had one pop. What happened to the law of averages? Somebody has to get the reject, no matter what flavor! While I don't earn a living in the woods, I grew up on a farm with plenty of time on the trigger of most the major saw brands. I wouldn't hesitate to own (and have owned most of) any of the major brands. That being said my 5 saw stable includes 1 Stihl and 4 Dolmars, 2 of which are PS5100's. Most damn impressive 50cc saw I've ever ran, and that includes the MS260 and 346XP. The 5100 is very much deserving of the praise it has received. It's just as solid as anything else on the market !!!


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## fsfcks (Nov 29, 2008)

As the OP with the busted 5100 I'd agree with SwampBuck. My problem was probably using the wrong tool for the job. I'm still going to fix the 5100 for other uses, but my new MS441 should do much better with Osage Orange


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## Bowtie (Nov 29, 2008)

fsfcks said:


> As the OP with the busted 5100 I'd agree with SwampBuck. My problem was probably using the wrong tool for the job. I'm still going to fix the 5100 for other uses, but my new MS441 should do much better with Osage Orange



I think you will be impressed with the 441, especially how clean the air filter stays, and how little fuel it uses. Then theres the power. It will be a fine saw for cutting hedge!


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## thechainsawguy (Nov 29, 2008)

*Tuning the saw or a lack of.*

The Stihl dealers near me charge $15 to tune the saws. I was told that they should NOT be run out of the box, they will blow up. Set too lean at the factory to pass emissions. Instant $5,000 fine if they don't pass. I am thinking that the saws are just set too lean and the dealers have not richened them up. The new saws can only be richened to the rich side of lean anyhow. Without taking off the limiters. Donny Walker from Walkers Saw shop said that for a while the 660 were all blowing up. Its not that they are bad saws, but that the limiters were set at a CRAZY lean setting. So the old carbs HAD to go in to tune them to a healthy setting. 

Dave.


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## saxman (Nov 29, 2008)

:agree2: :agree2: 
Yes the 441 is a great saw in spite of what some "experts" say here.


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## cuttinscott (Nov 29, 2008)

Lakeside53 said:


> I can't see E10 being an issue UNLESS the saw was factory tuned on non-alcohol gas and set on the bleeding edge of "too lean", and the user didn't retune when using alcohol. The limiter caps are set (by EPA requirement) so no further enrichment is allowed by the end user. If this is the case, Dolmar needs to wake up to the market reality.
> 
> 
> Stihl's have been tuned in VA Beach since Jan 2007 on E10 no matter the market destination, but even on earlier saws, I've seen few issues. I don't see issues with separation or excessively quick gas aging. We tell our customers 60-90 days, and I go way beyond that on some of my saws.
> ...





Lakeside53 said:


> Cuttin - That's scary - some dealers shouldn't be allowed to touch a carb, any brand
> 
> How can they get EPA approval to do that? Are they shipped to the dealers with limiter caps not set? Pulling the cap and setting them richer busts any EPA approvals (don't get me started on how stupid this is).
> 
> ...





thechainsawguy said:


> The Stihl dealers near me charge $15 to tune the saws. I was told that they should NOT be run out of the box, they will blow up. Set too lean at the factory to pass emissions. Instant $5,000 fine if they don't pass. I am thinking that the saws are just set too lean and the dealers have not richened them up. The new saws can only be richened to the rich side of lean anyhow. Without taking off the limiters. Donny Walker from Walkers Saw shop said that for a while the 660 were all blowing up. Its not that they are bad saws, but that the limiters were set at a CRAZY lean setting. So the old carbs HAD to go in to tune them to a healthy setting.
> 
> Dave.





:monkey:


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## cuttinscott (Nov 29, 2008)

Lakeside53 said:


> We tell our customers 60-90 days, and I go way beyond that on some of my saws.





I suspect that when you open the gas cap on a Stihl with 90-100 day old E10 gas it smells like ROSES too...............




Scott


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## Javelin (Nov 29, 2008)

Well this has turned out to be a bash dolmar thread! truth is the piston used by dolmar or stihl echo husky poulan etc does not know what brand of saw it is in and a lean condition is not merciful to any brand! I will stack Dolmar up against anyone size for size it is quality as good as anyone out there! However they are not for everyone just like Stihl Echo or Husky etc. is not for everyone! The truth is EPA is hurting saws with the lean conditions being forced on them and the e fuel is making things worse!


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## SawTroll (Nov 29, 2008)

Just another reason to run the Aspen alky fuel that is common over here.....

Sure it cost more than pump gas + oil - but it sure is worth it.


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## cuttinscott (Nov 29, 2008)

Lakeside53 said:


> Which Andy? Oh well, I'm one...
> 
> It's because they can... in other words,.. customers keep on buying them.. Maybe it's because they only last 20 years of hard use. lolol



must be a west coast thing cause saws used professionally here on the east coast NEVER make 20 years of hard use........... Now homeowner saws SURE I see planty of mid eighty Dolmars still going strong today Just got done tuning a couple of Sachs Dolmar 123's and some 119's etc. Even a Jonnie 70e with a gummed up carb. I don't see many 20 year old Stihls here on the east side of the USA most I suspect have shaken apart......... Like gas tanks and mufflers on say 041's for example :monkey: 

Scott


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## Trigger-Time (Nov 29, 2008)

cuttinscott said:


> must be a west coast thing cause saws used professionally here on the east coast NEVER make 20 years of hard use........... Now homeowner saws SURE I see planty of mid eighty Dolmars still going strong today Just got done tuning a couple of Sachs Dolmar 123's and some 119's etc. Even a Jonnie 70e with a gummed up carb. I don't see many 20 year old Stihls here on the east side of the USA most I suspect have shaken apart......... Like gas tanks and mufflers on say 041's for example :monkey:
> 
> Scott




:monkey: 

041.......now your talking 30 and 40 year old saws........and they still
bring $200 to $400 easy


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## Peacock (Nov 29, 2008)

cuttinscott said:


> must be a west coast thing cause saws used professionally here on the east coast NEVER make 20 years of hard use........... Now homeowner saws SURE I see planty of mid eighty Dolmars still going strong today Just got done tuning a couple of Sachs Dolmar 123's and some 119's etc. Even a Jonnie 70e with a gummed up carb. I don't see many 20 year old Stihls here on the east side of the USA most I suspect have shaken apart......... Like gas tanks and mufflers on say 041's for example :monkey:
> 
> Scott





Trigger-Time said:


> :monkey:
> 
> 041.......now your talking 30 and 40 year old saws........and they still
> bring $200 to $400 easy



:monkey:


----------



## Javelin (Nov 29, 2008)

Were is an 041 bringing that kind of money?


----------



## cuttinscott (Nov 29, 2008)

Trigger-Time said:


> :monkey:
> 
> 041.......now your talking 30 and 40 year old saws........and they still
> bring $200 to $400 easy



When we moved the store back in 02' I scrapped a dumpster full of 011,015,020,031,032,041,044,056,064 etc. Many had rotted crankcases, stripped holes, blow ups, smashes, you know the drill. In the 02' move you could of filled a 20 yard truck with what we scrapped all makes and models, That was the second cleanout we did one before that back in 97' that filled a 16' stakebody truck twice.


I have been through a few saws over the years. Many many trades that were too far gone to resell.


Scott


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## Trigger-Time (Nov 29, 2008)

Javelin said:


> Were is an 041 bringing that kind of money?




Check out ebay

I sold this one on ebay with out bar and chain for $184 plus shipping.

http://i116.photobucket.com/player..../albums/o27/Trigger-Time_photos/Movie/041.flv


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## Peacock (Nov 29, 2008)

cuttinscott said:


> When we moved the store back in 02' I scrapped a dumpster full of 011,015,020,031,032,041,044,056,064 etc. Many had rotted crankcases, stripped holes, blow ups, smashes, you know the drill. In the 02' move you could of filled a 20 yard truck with what we scrapped all makes and models, That was the second cleanout we did one before that back in 97' that filled a 16' stakebody truck twice.
> 
> 
> I have been through a few saws over the years. Many many trades that were too far gone to resell.
> ...



What's your point? Husky, Dolmar and any other quality saw is made of the same materials that are just as susceptible to the same stuff.


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## cuttinscott (Nov 29, 2008)

Peacock said:


> What's your point? Husky, Dolmar and any other quality saw is made of the same materials that are just as susceptible to the same stuff.



My point is that Andy (lakeside53) said Stihls LAST 20 YEARS under professional hard use I call that bullch!t.........



Scott


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## Bowtie (Nov 29, 2008)

...And now we have another thread gone to hell because of the brand war...:chatter:


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## Javelin (Nov 29, 2008)

At least everyone is commited! 

$200 for an o41 is not to bad but not any $400 like what was said!


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## Trigger-Time (Nov 29, 2008)

thechainsawguy said:


> The Stihl dealers near me charge $15 to tune the saws. I was told that they should NOT be run out of the box, they will blow up. Set too lean at the factory to pass emissions. Instant $5,000 fine if they don't pass. I am thinking that the saws are just set too lean and the dealers have not richened them up. The new saws can only be richened to the rich side of lean anyhow. Without taking off the limiters. Donny Walker from Walkers Saw shop said that for a while the 660 were all blowing up. Its not that they are bad saws, but that the limiters were set at a CRAZY lean setting. So the old carbs HAD to go in to tune them to a healthy setting.
> 
> Dave.



I'm in the back of my Stihl dealer often when they fire up new out of the box saw's. 
They sell a bunch of saw's, they have 75 to 150 Stihl saws at any given time

I have yet to see mec mess with carb. I was their when my MS200, MS200T, MS260
MS361, MS440, MS460, MS660 and MS880 where fired up the first time. None of them 
had any carb setting changes at dealer........after DP covers and muffler mods I reset the carb's


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## Trigger-Time (Nov 29, 2008)

Javelin said:


> At least everyone is commited!
> 
> $200 for an o41 is not to bad but not any $400 like what was said!



Priced, any nice 041 supers?


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## THALL10326 (Nov 29, 2008)

*Dayuuummmmmmmmmmm*

This thread is getting meaner all the time. Seems ole Lake has ruffled Scotts feathers a tad. Me, I used to love getting in these kinds of threads but I've gotton old I guess, ole geezer me done mellowed out. While they is a figthin I think I just sit back and play a tune by Wayon Jennings. What was it called, awww yes, Moma Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up To Be Sawmen,hehe







Take note thats a old Stihl guitar there, a oldie that plays as good as any new one ya can buy today,LOL


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## cuttinscott (Nov 29, 2008)

THALL10326 said:


> This thread is getting meaner all the time. Seems ole Lake has ruffled Scotts feathers a tad. Me, I used to love getting in these kinds of threads but I've gotton old I guess, ole geezer me done mellowed out. While they is a figthin I think I just sit back and play a tune by Wayon Jennings. What was it called, awww yes, Moma Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up To Be Sawmen,hehe
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wood that be OLE ELVIS playing his stihl geeetar.....
Hows it going ole buddy.........


Scott


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## THALL10326 (Nov 29, 2008)

cuttinscott said:


> Wood that be OLE ELVIS playing his stihl geeetar.....
> Hows it going ole buddy.........
> 
> 
> Scott



There you is you oreny cuss,LOL Yup tat be da King, how ya like that doo on the feller, pretty aint it, my the women, they always wanting to touch ma hair. Gonna start charging them for long,haha

I see you and Lake are poking at each other. Don't yaw mind me, yaw proceed, if one of yaw kills the utter I'll play Peace in The Valley for the one gone down,LOLOLOLOLOLOL


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## grandpatractor (Nov 29, 2008)

Welp, I suspect that we will be seeing more and more of these type of failures. As the EPA continues to go off the deep end and the saw manufacturers sqeeze more power out of the same displacement there becomes less and less room for error when tuning these saws. It is happening in all engine makers. Cat and Cummins on down to Polaris and Yamaha. Reliability is going downhill with these guys trying to meet emissions and economy. 2 stroke engines are more suseptable because they don't have the electronics and sensors to detect what is happening in these engines. 
They can't adjust themselves for different fuels like a car engine can.
There needs to be a fuel available like they have in "Troll Land" that is made just for these small engines. But then you need a politician to come up with that bright idea-good luck!


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## cuttinscott (Nov 29, 2008)

grandpatractor said:


> Welp, I suspect that we will be seeing more and more of these type of failures. As the EPA continues to go off the deep end and the saw manufacturers sqeeze more power out of the same displacement there becomes less and less room for error when tuning these saws. It is happening in all engine makers. Cat and Cummins on down to Polaris and Yamaha. Reliability is going downhill with these guys trying to meet emissions and economy. 2 stroke engines are more suseptable because they don't have the electronics and sensors to detect what is happening in these engines.
> They can't adjust themselves for different fuels like a car engine can.
> There needs to be a fuel available like they have in "Troll Land" that is made just for these small engines. But then you need a politician to come up with that bright idea-good luck!



I hear that CAT is pulling the plug on production of truck engines and going to focus on off road engines...........Thank the EPA

Also Tecumseh is closing down their engine plant for good... Thank You again EPA



Scott


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## THALL10326 (Nov 29, 2008)

*Killed a 5100 , no big deal, try dealing with these*

Before your eyes you have LowLife Dirty Dapper Dan on the left. On the right you have MeanAzz Freaky Frank. These guys are in my little shop all the time. Talk about a hoot, these guys are hilarious. Both in their 70's and both telling jokes one right after the other. This is as good as it gets in any saw shop. These old suckers come in and give me a fit, I wouldn't have it any other way.


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## Ole Farmerbuck (Nov 29, 2008)

I guess thats why they make repair parts. Fix it up and get to cuttin!!


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## Lakeside53 (Nov 29, 2008)

cuttinscott said:


> My point is that Andy (lakeside53) said Stihls LAST 20 YEARS under professional hard use I call that bullch!t.........
> 
> 
> 
> Scott



I never said that.... and you know I didn't... Nice "professional" insert  I was being flippent... you know.. with a LOLOLOl




But... I do know pro's that have has them rebuilt time and time again, and some are 18 years old... In fact have one on my bench right now. It's had 2 top ends (and still has 145 comp) and now need main bearings. I bet he has 5000 hours on it.


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## Lakeside53 (Nov 29, 2008)

cuttinscott said:


> I suspect that when you open the gas cap on a Stihl with 90-100 day old E10 gas it smells like ROSES too...............
> 
> 
> 
> ...



90 days? Smells just like normal gas to me... even if it's in a Husky. It take a lot longer to "smell bad". 

I'm sure you have customers like mine - they only use their saws in the spring, and every spring they bring them in. One year old gas starts to stink, but it take a couple to get really bad.


Edit... Slow night on TV.. Went down to dug my 361 out from under the bench - it's been there since August when I sold the modded muffler. Tank half full of gas. Smelled like gas, and looked fine. May not have had the "pep" and "fizz" of brand new gas, but.. No separation or noticeable color change. This gas was from a bulk can that might have been another month or two older. It smells like Shell (very distinctive out here) and although I can't swear it's E10, it's most likely as all gas has been this way in King County since last winter. It would definitely have been 93 -I don't buy anything else, and 50:1 Ultra. So... fitted my new muffler, 6 pulls and it fired up. Idled fine, ran fine. Neighbors will be pissed so I'm not cutting wood... Tomorrow I'll just top up the tank with 2 month old gas from my can.

I still say 90 days is safe, and don't advocate using 6 month old gas. On the other hand, I often do... I know when my saw are running right... and unlike some, if they aren't I stop and figure out why. I'm also not a carb fiddler. Other than a seasonal adjustment in winter/late spring, I rarely tune my saws other than to change to milling and back on the larger saws. They are set a tad to the rich side - that way I don't have to worry at all.

I'm not trying to pick any fights over gas, but I do think it's "in vogue" to blame it for many unrelated ills. Sure, in some parts of the county in hot weather it might not be as stable, and maybe some local blends suck, but Idon't see any trend evidence that *** is worse then 5 years ago. And I do see a heck of a lot of "owned by idiots" ***...


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## Lakeside53 (Nov 29, 2008)

thechainsawguy said:


> The Stihl dealers near me charge $15 to tune the saws. I was told that they should NOT be run out of the box, they will blow up. Set too lean at the factory to pass emissions. Instant $5,000 fine if they don't pass. I am thinking that the saws are just set too lean and the dealers have not richened them up. The new saws can only be richened to the rich side of lean anyhow. Without taking off the limiters. Donny Walker from Walkers Saw shop said that for a while the 660 were all blowing up. Its not that they are bad saws, but that the limiters were set at a CRAZY lean setting. So the old carbs HAD to go in to tune them to a healthy setting.
> 
> Dave.





Someone is feeding you buckets of BS... or maybe it's "different" in Canada? South of the border... 066/60 have had limiter caps since 2000 or so. New old carbs? Removing the limiter tabs does the same thing. I can see guy punching holes in their muffers (or getting Walkers to do it for them) like they always did, and not being able to returne the crab richer... but...


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## mountainlake (Nov 29, 2008)

A logger friend of mine had a couple of 660's fry, had them rebuilt under warrenty, I took a look at the exhaust after being rebuilt, just about pure white, I"m sure they weren't set to lean, must have been bad seals or carb boot after 2 months. Steve


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## thechainsawguy (Nov 29, 2008)

Lakeside, this is not just the odd person saying this, these are high volume Logger supply chainsaw shops, and these are the heavy duty pro saws, not the consumer models. The EPA has caused alot of problems, since they started closing up the muffler holes and adding limiter caps. It would also be hell with ported mufflers. But ported mufflers is not the only problem, its the new carbs. These shop have been selling 2 or 3 hundred 660's a year. Walkers is well known, and the loggers I talk to say this themselves, its not that Stihl is making bad saws, just that conforming to the EPA is wrecking EVERYONES saws. I love Stihl and Husky bytheway, and Dolmar and other too. All have neg and positives. Most fallers saws here are all modified, and basically just to reverse what the epa has screwed up. Simonizer does 2 to 3 hundred in a normal year. The carbs all need to have the limiters cut. 

Dave.


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## windthrown (Nov 29, 2008)

JTElectric said:


> "Dolmar 5100's are the cat's pajamas!! You should all get one!!"



Only problem around here (and a LOT of other places in the US according to PMs I have gotten) is that they simply do not exist!!!!! I called all 8 dealers listed on the Dolmar site and only 2 had any Dolmar saws, and none had a 5100s in stock. Zero. Or any 350/420s, or 7900s. All were back-ordered at the distributor. As they also cannot be sold on the internet, so that leaves exactly what channels to get them from? FleaBay???? 
:monkey:


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## windthrown (Nov 29, 2008)

cuttinscott said:


> must be a west coast thing cause saws used professionally here on the east coast NEVER make 20 years of hard use........... (snipped)
> 
> Scott



Man, I have seen many old 044s, 046, 066s on the market out here lately (lots of loggers out of work, and I have been buying them up on CL). Most of them actually do stihl run too... 2 to 20 years old, still turning. Many are rebuilt; I suspect many more will be as well after the EPA kills all the better saws out there today. Hell, even my 290 has about 7 years of hard use on it. It is running strong. Taken care of though. 

Now Dolmar... where have I seen any Dolmars used by pro loggers out here... :monkey: Lots and lots of Huskies, but Dolmars??? :monkey: Wow, a :censored: load of Stihls... but where are the Dolmars??? :monkey: Zero. Nada. None. I have yet to see one used professionally, actually.

Oh yah, and I just sold my 40+ year old 020AV Stihl that was still running perfectly. Lightly used though. But still running strong. $175.00.


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## Fastcast (Nov 30, 2008)

windthrown said:


> Dolmar... :monkey:



Boy Windy ya sure are blowing a lot smoke Dolmars way......You're awfully opinionated for a fellow who has never seen one run in person, let alone actually touch or for that matter, lay one into some wood. :angrysoapbox: 


Should I go on?.....oke:


BTW......My 5100 has done everything I've asked of it, for 3 years now, with style & class.....Haven't burnt nothing up here and don't suspect you'll be hearing much about these problems when the saw is tuned properly......For the record I've always mixed my fuel around 40/1.......It just makes sense for the little hot rod 5100!


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## windthrown (Nov 30, 2008)

Fastcast said:


> Should I go on?.....oke:



Oh, please do! oke: 

I am an not saying anything about the quality of the saws here... nor am I saying that a 5100 is a crap saw after seeing one being used by someone else. Actually I have never seen a 5100s being used. I have never seen one on the shelf for sale either. Which is an issue I have with Dolmar... 

Dolmar can use some smoke their way. Lots and lots of smoke. :fart:


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## Fastcast (Nov 30, 2008)

windthrown said:


> Lots and lots of smoke. :fart:



Yep, you're full of that!....Guess that's where your nickname _Windy_ comes from.


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## 04ultra (Nov 30, 2008)

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/bWm-GFbAHMk&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/bWm-GFbAHMk&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>





Windy ....Watch all of the rbtrees videos


.


----------



## Scooterbum (Nov 30, 2008)

Dang!! You'd think as big as that muffler is it would be quieter........


----------



## Jacob J. (Nov 30, 2008)

04ultra said:


> Windy ....Watch all of the rbtrees videos.



I'll bet when Roger has a customer that's being difficult, he just sticks that pipe in their face and gives the throttle a few good gooses...


----------



## CHEVYTOWN13 (Nov 30, 2008)

*Ooooooooooooh!*

Fool got blown away...


----------



## Lakeside53 (Nov 30, 2008)

Scooterbum said:


> Dang!! You'd think as big as that muffler is it would be quieter........



It's PAINFULL to listen to when it's "idling", if you can call it that... Kind of cool when it howling though.


One of my neigbors asked about Rodgers 372 - "what he got up there? A trail bike?"


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## windthrown (Nov 30, 2008)

Fastcast said:


> Yep, you're full of that!....Guess that's where your nickname _Windy_ comes from.



So original. 

Of course, using the _Fastcast, Master of Observation _skills, "I knew a guy that knew a guy that knew another guy that had a cousin that had a brother-in-law that said that he saw a guy using a Dolmar 5100s once and that it really really cut slow, did not start well, and blew chunks." So of course I must draw the conclusion that it is a crappy saw, and post a new thread on AS accordingly...


----------



## windthrown (Nov 30, 2008)

04ultra said:


> Windy ....Watch all of the rbtrees videos
> 
> .



Not exactly stock 5100s saws, are they? :monkey:


----------



## Urbicide (Nov 30, 2008)

Lakeside53 said:


> It's PAINFULL to listen to when it's "idling", if you can call it that... Kind of cool when it howling though.
> 
> 
> One of my neigbors asked about Rodgers 372 - "what he got up there? A trail bike?"




Maybe you should start calling him "Rodger Penske".


----------



## Andyshine77 (Nov 30, 2008)

I would like too clear the air a bit. I'm a Dolmar supporter, and I'm not trying to pick on, or bash Dolmar in anyway. I think the 7900 is the best stock 70cc to 80cc made today. No it's not perfect, the air filter could be better, but then again so could the 361's filter.

Now some have suggested that I'm basing my opinion of the 5100 on one singular failure. I'm not, that would be moronic. The 5100 does in fact have a high failure rate. Most of the failures are caused by air leaks from multiple points on the saw. I also know for a fact the 5100's have an extremely high failure rate in OH, KY, and IN. Most dealers in my area have stopped selling 5100's and or Dolmar products altogether. It's a shame because I truly feel that Dolmar has potential in the chainsaw market.

I would also like too note, that the guys at the Cutting Edge have been very helpful in trying to resolve the problems I've had with my 5100.


----------



## belgian (Nov 30, 2008)

Lakeside53 said:


> I rarely tune my saws other than to change to milling and back on the larger saws. They are set a tad to the rich side - that way I don't have to worry at all.
> ...




:agree2:   

I understand the 5100 is a screamer and a high rpm flyer. That fact does indicate to me that the risk for an engine failure is greater than with a lower rpm saw, regardless of brand. I've seen many 242XP burned up for the same reason. RPM goes up, risk goes up ! (fuel issues, carb settings, operator...)
Does that make the 5100 a bad saw ? of course not !

My advice : if you have a high performance saw and don't use if for racing,, tune it a tad rich, like Lake, and learn how to keep your chain sharp. The best mod to any saw, by far.


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## snowyman (Nov 30, 2008)

Andyshine77 said:


> I would like too clear the air a bit. I'm a Dolmar supporter, and I'm not trying to pick on, or bash Dolmar in anyway. I think the 7900 is the best stock 70cc to 80cc made today. No it's not perfect, the air filter could be better, but then again so could the 361's filter.
> 
> Now some have suggested that I'm basing my opinion of the 5100 on one singular failure. I'm not, that would be moronic. The 5100 does in fact have a high failure rate. Most of the failures are caused by air leaks from multiple points on the saw. I also know for a fact the 5100's have an extremely high failure rate in OH, KY, and IN. Most dealers in my area have stopped selling 5100's and or Dolmar products altogether. It's a shame because I truly feel that Dolmar has potential in the chainsaw market.
> 
> I would also like too note, that the guys at the Cutting Edge have been very helpful in trying to resolve the problems I've had with my 5100.



After reading a lot about the 5100 here a few months ago I thought I'd try one.

The Dolmar dealer told me they were no longer available here because of too many problems.


----------



## huskystihl (Nov 30, 2008)

Andyshine77 said:


> I would like too clear the air a bit. I'm a Dolmar supporter, and I'm not trying to pick on, or bash Dolmar in anyway. I think the 7900 is the best stock 70cc to 80cc made today. No it's not perfect, the air filter could be better, but then again so could the 361's filter.
> 
> Now some have suggested that I'm basing my opinion of the 5100 on one singular failure. I'm not, that would be moronic. The 5100 does in fact have a high failure rate. Most of the failures are caused by air leaks from multiple points on the saw. I also know for a fact the 5100's have an extremely high failure rate in OH, KY, and IN. Most dealers in my area have stopped selling 5100's and or Dolmar products altogether. It's a shame because I truly feel that Dolmar has potential in the chainsaw market.
> 
> I would also like too note, that the guys at the Cutting Edge have been very helpful in trying to resolve the problems I've had with my 5100.



Good post Andy. I also agree that the 7900 from what I heard is a great saw and also have to agree about the 5100 failure and yes the cutting edge does seem like a good dealer reminds me of my husky dealer. But, he will be the frist one to tell you that the 460 that they are trying to replace the 359 with is a pos. Dolmar tried in my opinion to crack the 50 cc market with a saw that I think turns to many rpm's and has about the worst filtration setup I have ever seen which together is leading to all the issues. I think the 5100 is on the verge of being a great saw but for cryin out loud get it right before you compare to the legendary saws by the other two makers, yes it's sad we had a husky efco dealer take on dolmar and because of failed units and pissed off tree services will now only special order them. The most popular saw on any tree co after the top handle is a 50cc saw, and i'm sorry until dolmar gets it right you wont see em in Nw ohio.


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## Fastcast (Nov 30, 2008)

Maybe we should have a poll........

Who owned a 5100 they laid to rest and who owns a 5100 that's still throwing chips and putting a smile on your face? opcorn:

I'm not sure how to set up the polls....any one else want to bother?


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## John Ellison (Nov 30, 2008)

I have just read part of this thread. Don't want to get into a brand war, because I think every major manuf. makes good saws and some that are just fair saws. But I have to put in a good word for the 5100s. I have had one for 2 1/2 years and will say only good things about it. Some firewood and a lot of smaller dia. pine saw logs. Like a lot of other saws If you have a Sharp chain on it the chips will fly.
Every saw I have bought in the last 8 or 9 years has been too lean right from the dealer( Stihl included ) I won't run them blubbery but they would not last the way they were set up. There should be a warning in the owners manual that the saw needs to be operated on (muffler and limiter caps) to work properly.lol


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## KRS (Nov 30, 2008)

cuttinscott said:


> We have recommended richening the fuel mix from 50-1 down to 40-1 and strongly recommend the use of Dolmar's Synthetic Oil. Scott



I'm not sure I understand that logic (I'm not a 2 stroke expert so please understand that I'm trying to figure this out).

A carb lets a set amount of mix through it in a given time (metering the mix).

The fuel burns and provides power, and a cooling effect.
The oil burns, provides no power, but provides lubrication.

If you add more oil to the fuel/oil mix; there is more lubrication but less gas. Isn't this effect essentially leaning out the mix (less gas to more air)?

I'm struggling to understand this concept, but it seems to make sense that making the mix richer with oil actually leans out the saw when it's running.......?

KRS


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## Javelin (Nov 30, 2008)

Sold over 100 5100's and I have had only two fail due to fuel and dull chains! 

Bad fuel and dull chains are going to hurt any brand!!


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## dugide (Nov 30, 2008)

Fastcast said:


> Maybe we should have a poll........
> 
> Who owned a 5100 they laid to rest and who owns a 5100 that's still throwing chips and putting a smile on your face? opcorn:
> 
> I'm not sure how to set up the polls....any one else want to bother?



good idea-- and post the saws set up, bar and chain .325 or 3/8, rim if changed, any mods. there may be a common link. ( many out of the same shop or certain part of the country). opcorn:


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## Urbicide (Nov 30, 2008)

Windthrown knows how to set up a pole. He's done 1 or 2 here in the past.


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## Urbicide (Nov 30, 2008)

KRS said:


> I'm not sure I understand that logic (I'm not a 2 stroke expert so please understand that I'm trying to figure this out).
> 
> A carb lets a set amount of mix through it in a given time (metering the mix).
> 
> ...



Somebody wake up Gary. opcorn:


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## John Ellison (Nov 30, 2008)

Javelin said:


> Sold over 100 5100's and I have had only two fail due to fuel and dull chains!
> 
> Bad fuel and dull chains are going to hurt any brand!!



So true. I saw a utube vid where they ran a saw in/on a log till the log caught on fire. I like to keep a dull chain handy so if I run out of matches its no problem.


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## fullchisel (Nov 30, 2008)

.


I suspect the Dolmars are factory set really lean to meet EPA... and dealers don't adjust them, or don't know how. Every one I've seen (yep, just a handful) are all set way too lean... (as are some small Stihls..)[/QUOTE]

thats how my 7900 was.dealer never set it.the tab had to be removed to richen it up about a quarter turn and its still hitting the rev limiter.


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## fsfcks (Nov 30, 2008)

A poll would be interesting. My saw was 3/8" .050" on a 16" bar.


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## grandpatractor (Nov 30, 2008)

fullchisel said:


> .
> 
> 
> thats how my 7900 was.dealer never set it.the tab had to be removed to richen it up about a quarter turn and its still hitting the rev limiter.



Yup, my 7900 had to be richened up about the same after breakin.:agree2:


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## 04ultra (Nov 30, 2008)

windthrown said:


> Not exactly stock 5100s saws, are they? :monkey:



Yes they are...Just europeeee'n mufflers ...


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## GASoline71 (Nov 30, 2008)

Urbicide said:


> Somebody wake up Gary. opcorn:



I'm up, I'm up... sheesh... 

Gary


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## SawTroll (Nov 30, 2008)

04ultra said:


> Yes they are...Just europeeee'n mufflers ...


 :jawdrop: :jawdrop: No European 5100s.....


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## huskystihl (Nov 30, 2008)

fullchisel said:


> .
> 
> 
> I suspect the Dolmars are factory set really lean to meet EPA... and dealers don't adjust them, or don't know how. Every one I've seen (yep, just a handful) are all set way too lean... (as are some small Stihls..)



thats how my 7900 was.dealer never set it.the tab had to be removed to richen it up about a quarter turn and its still hitting the rev limiter.[/QUOTE]

They're set up lean so they can get that 14'500 that they advertise so boldly on their air filter cover.


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## tdi-rick (Nov 30, 2008)

huskystihl said:


> They're set up lean so they can get that 14'500 that they advertise so boldly on their air filter cover.



:chatter:


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## Edge & Engine (Nov 30, 2008)

huskystihl said:


> t
> They're set up lean so they can get that 14'500 that they advertise so boldly on their air filter cover.



7900's are limited at 13,500


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## GASoline71 (Nov 30, 2008)

No manufacturer in their right mind is gonna purposely set up a saw "lean"... 

Gary


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## huskystihl (Nov 30, 2008)

Edge & Engine said:


> 7900's are limited at 13,500



Which is where the 5100's should be and I think they would have less failure.


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## 04ultra (Nov 30, 2008)

My dealer set mine up and ran them all........0 problems.......I run fresh gas with 2T and *keep chains sharp *like on all my saws.....

Mine are all set near 14,400


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## mountainlake (Nov 30, 2008)

GASoline71 said:


> No manufacturer in their right mind is gonna purposely set up a saw "lean"...
> 
> Gary



And they would be in their right mind if it wasn't for the EPA. Steve


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## Poley4 (Nov 30, 2008)

ericjeeper said:


> On a carb there are two jets, High and Low. A 2 stroke chainsaw engine is designed to either idle or run wide open. So it could be possible I suppose.



I'm not so sure about that. I just bought an Echo PB-251 leaf blower, and it clearly states in the manual to only use as much throttle as required for the job. I still run it wide open though.


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## THALL10326 (Nov 30, 2008)

KRS said:


> I'm not sure I understand that logic (I'm not a 2 stroke expert so please understand that I'm trying to figure this out).
> 
> A carb lets a set amount of mix through it in a given time (metering the mix).
> 
> ...



No need to be struggling, you are correct. Far as I'm concerned if a saw can't live on 50:1 then it shall not live in my shed either. Dayummed if I'm having a can of fuel for this one and can of fuel for that one, to hell with that, they all gonna use the same 50:1 mix and thats that. Ive told all my saws you will live or die on 50:1 so get use to it,LOL To date I have never fried a saw period on a 50:1 mix.

Many years ago at a school the subject of mixes came up. According to Stihl Inc oils have improved alot over the years. The need for more oil back in the day was for lube quality. As oils got better the need for more of it in the mix became less. They also pointed out that engine tolerances tightened up over the years and that too meant a less need for more oil. One of the easiest ways to make a worn out saw run a little better was to add more oil to help make up for all the clearance within the cylinder. They also pointed out that that extra oil in chainssaws nowdays only provides more heat because the engine tolerances are tight and the quality of oil nowdays provides all the lube a engine needs. Finally they pointed out that adding more oil does lean out the fuel mix. More oil, less gas means a lean fuel mix. The gas does the cooling, the oil does the lube. I too had to take a double take on that but if you add it up it they are 100% correct, more oil, less gas equals a lean fuel mix with less cooling effect for the engine. So adding more oil in most cases does more harm than good.


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## SawTroll (Nov 30, 2008)

THALL10326 said:


> No need to be struggling, you are correct. Far as I'm concerned if a saw can't live on 50:1 then it shall not live in my shed either. Dayummed if I'm having a can of fuel for this one and can of fuel for that one, to hell with that, they all gonna use the same 50:1 mix and thats that. Ive told all my saws you will live or die on 50:1 so get use to it,LOL To date I have never fried a saw period on a 50:1 mix.
> 
> Many years ago at a school the subject of mixes came up. According to Stihl Inc oils have improved alot over the years. The need for more oil back in the day was for lube quality. As oils got better the need for more of it in the mix became less. They also pointed out that engine tolerances tightened up over the years and that too meant a less need for more oil. One of the easiest ways to make a worn out saw run a little better was to add more oil to help make up for all the clearance within the cylinder. They also pointed out that that extra oil in chainssaws nowdays only provides more heat because the engine tolerances are tight and the quality of oil nowdays provides all the lube a engine needs. Finally they pointed out that adding more oil does lean out the fuel mix. More oil, less gas means a lean fuel mix. The gas does the cooling, the oil does the lube. I too had to take a double take on that but if you add it up it they are 100% correct, more oil, less gas equals a lean fuel mix with less cooling effect for the engine. So adding more oil in most cases does more harm than good.



You got it right, as far as I know..... :agree2:


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## THALL10326 (Nov 30, 2008)

Javelin said:


> Sold over 100 5100's and I have had only two fail due to fuel and dull chains!
> 
> Bad fuel and dull chains are going to hurt any brand!!



Awwwwwwwwww the truth finally comes out in this thread, the dull chain. This is probly what killed the famous I KILLED MY 5100. He said it was making dust. A dull chain kills more saws than anything else. How so, simple.
Take your car, put it in neutral and hold that baby to the floor. You wouldn't think of doing that. Same goes with a dull chain. Motor is over reving from no load on it, its not doing any work other than screaming. She screams long enuff she overheats and she dies. 

At the shop when I sell a saw I become a old orerny bas-tard for the good of my customer. I tell my customers flat out if you bring this saw back with a fried engine and I see a dull screwed up chain on the saw don't even think about any mercy. I explain what a dull chain does so they know when its not cutting cut it off. I can't remember the last time I sold a saw that came back fried. Customers listen only if you take time to tell them what they need to know.


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## 04ultra (Nov 30, 2008)

THALL10326 said:


> Awwwwwwwwww the truth finally comes out in this thread, the dull chain. This is probly what killed the famous I KILLED MY 5100. He said it was making dust. A dull chain kills more saws than anything else. How so, simple.
> Take your car, put it in neutral and hold that baby to the floor. You wouldn't think of doing that. Same goes with a dull chain. Motor is over reving from no load on it, its not doing any work other than screaming. She screams long enuff she overheats and she dies.
> 
> At the shop when I sell a saw I become a old orerny bas-tard for the good of my customer. I tell my customers flat out if you bring this saw back with a fried engine and I see a dull screwed up chain on the saw don't even think about any mercy. I explain what a dull chain does so they know when its not cutting cut it off. I can't remember the last time I sold a saw that came back fried. Customers listen only if you take time to tell them what they need to know.





I always try to run a dull chain.....If its to sharp I just run it in the dirt .... 






.


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## THALL10326 (Nov 30, 2008)

SawTroll said:


> You got it right, as far as I know..... :agree2:



Oh trust me its right. If you knew how many saws Stihl takes off the line and sends over to the testing department you would be amazed. They do everything you can think of to kill those saws and one of the things they do is mess with the mix. They know for a fact adding more oil only creates more heat. They put these little boxes right on top the saw and it tells them exactly how high the temps are in the engine. 


Them cats do some wild stuff down there at the factory Sawtroll. I got a 361here at the house that came from their testing department down there. Saw is like new but its been put through pure hell. Its been rebuilt I think the man told me 19 times. I hope he did a good job on the 19th time cause its my saw now,LOLOL


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## THALL10326 (Nov 30, 2008)

04ultra said:


> I always try to run a dull chain.....If its to sharp I just run it in the dirt ....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



And when you bring it in the door and its 2 weeks old I take one look and say what the hell did I tell ya, dayumm it to hell ya didn't listen did ya, 350.00 and I'll fix that fried motor, warranty you say, ha, what warranty fool,LOLOLOL


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## fsfcks (Nov 30, 2008)

Thall...as the OP I would normally agree with you re dull chains and dust. In my experience the exception is that Osage Orange always cuts as (horrible yellow) dust, even with a newly sharp chain. I can cut Osage Orange and get dust. I can then immediately cut Eastern Red Cedar and get lovely chips.


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## huskystihl (Nov 30, 2008)

THALL10326 said:


> Awwwwwwwwww the truth finally comes out in this thread, the dull chain. This is probly what killed the famous I KILLED MY 5100. He said it was making dust. A dull chain kills more saws than anything else. How so, simple.
> Take your car, put it in neutral and hold that baby to the floor. You wouldn't think of doing that. Same goes with a dull chain. Motor is over reving from no load on it, its not doing any work other than screaming. She screams long enuff she overheats and she dies.
> 
> At the shop when I sell a saw I become a old orerny bas-tard for the good of my customer. I tell my customers flat out if you bring this saw back with a fried engine and I see a dull screwed up chain on the saw don't even think about any mercy. I explain what a dull chain does so they know when its not cutting cut it off. I can't remember the last time I sold a saw that came back fried. Customers listen only if you take time to tell them what they need to know.



I think the dust was from the osage tree he was cutting as i've heard that is the characteristic of that wood. We've taken down som pretty hard locust and ironwood that do the same thing, the saw is under load just not producing much of a chip and not because of a lack of sharp chain. This where filter failure becomes an issue which I think is what he was reffering to.


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## McC (Nov 30, 2008)

I have cut all my firewood for the last 3 years with my 5100, and this summer this fragile time-bomb was still able to take first place at Washington county fair contest. I think the stihl/husky guys are jumping at the chance to bash this saw which embarrasses them with performance and price. When you buy a pro saw, you should know how to tune it. I couldn't imagine leaving my mixture needles as set from my dealer. I tweek my mixture whenever the temp changes. And why would you buy cheap blended gas anyway. I always use 93 octane, no ethanol, with synthetic oil. 
Scott


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## THALL10326 (Nov 30, 2008)

Andyshine77 said:


> I would like too clear the air a bit. I'm a Dolmar supporter, and I'm not trying to pick on, or bash Dolmar in anyway. I think the 7900 is the best stock 70cc to 80cc made today. No it's not perfect, the air filter could be better, but then again so could the 361's filter.
> 
> Now some have suggested that I'm basing my opinion of the 5100 on one singular failure. I'm not, that would be moronic. The 5100 does in fact have a high failure rate. Most of the failures are caused by air leaks from multiple points on the saw. I also know for a fact the 5100's have an extremely high failure rate in OH, KY, and IN. Most dealers in my area have stopped selling 5100's and or Dolmar products altogether. It's a shame because I truly feel that Dolmar has potential in the chainsaw market.
> 
> I would also like too note, that the guys at the Cutting Edge have been very helpful in trying to resolve the problems I've had with my 5100.



This post I find interesting because if its true and I'm not doulting for a second it isn't, what type of failures are we looking at here. Are we talking crank, bearings, cylinder failures, what type of failures? Also with most failures there is a cause, a fault of somekind. Air leaks at different points in the saw, thats kinda across the board there. Seems to me if there is a common failure of somekind the cause is usually a common one as well. Nail down these the types of failures your talking about Andy, I'm curious to see what these failures are.

I have read posts concerning the filter on these saws letting some dust in but for the life of me I haven't had that with my 5100. I read some posts concerning air leaks at the intake but not on mine. My 5100 has been fine since day one but I do admit it hasn't seen alot of use. It runs at 14,00-14,500 and seems to be holding up fine but I'm very picking about fresh fuel and clean filters and sharp chains. I guess its possible neglecting any of the three things I just mentioned could kill a saw turning those high Rpms pretty quick.


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## Poley4 (Nov 30, 2008)

THALL10326 said:


> Same goes with a dull chain. Motor is over reving from no load on it, its not doing any work other than screaming. She screams long enuff she overheats and she dies.



It still kills me how someone would burn up a saw by using a dull chain. Man, their finger is still in control of the trigger!


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## THALL10326 (Nov 30, 2008)

huskystihl said:


> I think the dust was from the osage tree he was cutting as i've heard that is the characteristic of that wood. We've taken down som pretty hard locust and ironwood that do the same thing, the saw is under load just not producing much of a chip and not because of a lack of sharp chain. This where filter failure becomes an issue which I think is what he was reffering to.



Ok, that makes sense. As long as the saw is working dust shouldn't matter. I take back my thought on a possible dull chain. The filter I've read about but I've yet to encounter any of that with my 5100. This osage orange wood must be some mean stuff. Sounds like wood for a big 3/8 chain with alot of HP pulling it. I've never cut any of that stuff so I'm in the dark on that type of sawing.


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## Urbicide (Nov 30, 2008)

04ultra said:


> I always try to run a dull chain.....If its to sharp I just run it in the dirt ....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Rocks also work extremely well.


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## THALL10326 (Nov 30, 2008)

Poley4 said:


> It still kills me how someone would burn up a saw by using a dull chain. Man, their finger is still in control of the trigger!



So true. Had a little 180 Stihl come in a few months back. Bought elsewhere but like new. It was melted to high heaven. The chain was so dull I could force the flat of my hand up and down it and it wouldn't even grab my skin. It was burnt black. Saw was in the warranty frame. I made a call. Stihl wanted to see the saw to make a judgement. I sent the whole saw to them. They called a couple days later they called and said give him a new saw and tell him no more free saws, tell him to learn to sharpen the chain!!!!!!


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## 04ultra (Nov 30, 2008)

Urbicide said:


> Rocks also work extremely well.



Putting chain on backwards helps too.......




.


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## sugarbush (Nov 30, 2008)

THALL10326 said:


> This post I find interesting because if its true and I'm not doulting for a second it isn't, what type of failures are we looking at here. Are we talking crank, bearings, cylinder failures, what type of failures? Also with most failures there is a cause, a fault of somekind. Air leaks at different points in the saw, thats kinda across the board there. Seems to me if there is a common failure of somekind the cause is usually a common one as well. Nail down these the types of failures your talking about Andy, I'm curious to see what these failures are.
> 
> I have read posts concerning the filter on these saws letting some dust in but for the life of me I haven't had that with my 5100. I read some posts concerning air leaks at the intake but not on mine. My 5100 has been fine since day one but I do admit it hasn't seen alot of use. It runs at 14,00-14,500 and seems to be holding up fine but I'm very picking about fresh fuel and clean filters and sharp chains. I guess its possible neglecting any of the three things I just mentioned could kill a saw turning those high Rpms pretty quick.



you where lucky to get a minnesota 5100  I've yet to have a 5100 come back for anything other then an rpm check. thats 4 + years, about the only thing I may do differant then most Dealers is they all are sold with .325. I don't like 3/8 on a 50cc saw. not sure what to say about the ethynol, I tell my customers to use the highest octane available but doubt if they all do. (we do have ethynol in much of our gas.) I have a hunch most of these problems is operater induced or BS.


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## Poley4 (Nov 30, 2008)

sugarbush said:


> you where lucky to get a minnesota 5100  I've yet to have a 5100 come back for anything other then an rpm check. thats 4 + years, about the only thing I may do differant then most Dealers is they all are sold with .325. I don't like 3/8 on a 50cc saw. not sure what to say about the ethynol, I tell my customers to use the highest octane available but doubt if they all do. (we do have ethynol in much of our gas.) I have a hunch most of these problems is operater induced or BS.



I'd think it would be too cold to burn up a saw in Minnesota.


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## huskystihl (Nov 30, 2008)

Poley4 said:


> It still kills me how someone would burn up a saw by using a dull chain. Man, their finger is still in control of the trigger!



Ive seen idiots bust the anti vibe springs and rubbers from leaning into the saw so hard due to the chain being so dull. I hit mine every other tank just so I don't have to exert myself. Nothins funnier than watching someone huffin and puffin running a tool that basically runs itself if ran properly.


----------



## THALL10326 (Nov 30, 2008)

sugarbush said:


> you where lucky to get a minnesota 5100  I've yet to have a 5100 come back for anything other then an rpm check. thats 4 + years, about the only thing I may do differant then most Dealers is they all are sold with .325. I don't like 3/8 on a 50cc saw. not sure what to say about the ethynol, I tell my customers to use the highest octane available but doubt if they all do. (we do have ethynol in much of our gas.) I have a hunch most of these problems is operater induced or BS.




Hey Sugar hows the mators in Minn? LOL

I've been reading this thread and taking it all in and comparing to my Minn 5100. My 5100 has been trouble free. Like I said I'm picking about my chains, fuel and filters but to date I've never fried any brand of saw. 

Far as E10 fuels goes that stuff is a pain in the azz for sure. Seems to draw water like crazy. I say for the price of a gallon of gas always get new and pitch that old gas after few months.

BTW Sugar I forgot to send you that 25lb mator I grew last year, sorry about that,LOL


----------



## huskystihl (Nov 30, 2008)

THALL10326 said:


> Ok, that makes sense. As long as the saw is working dust shouldn't matter. I take back my thought on a possible dull chain. The filter I've read about but I've yet to encounter any of that with my 5100. This osage orange wood must be some mean stuff. Sounds like wood for a big 3/8 chain with alot of HP pulling it. I've never cut any of that stuff so I'm in the dark on that type of sawing.



We don't get it here either but if it's anything like ironwood I would be reaching for a 372 for starters.


----------



## sugarbush (Nov 30, 2008)

Poley4 said:


> I'd think it would be too cold to burn up a saw in Minnesota.



mostly true, but it does warm up a little in july and aug. but then the mosquito are so thick no one cuts.


----------



## 04ultra (Nov 30, 2008)

*The Champ is in the house......LOL*





.


----------



## sugarbush (Nov 30, 2008)

THALL10326 said:


> Hey Sugar hows the mators in Minn? LOL
> 
> I've been reading this thread and taking it all in and comparing to my Minn 5100. My 5100 has been trouble free. Like I said I'm picking about my chains, fuel and filters but to date I've never fried any brand of saw.
> 
> ...



you've sent me enough BS to make up for the mator.


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## THALL10326 (Nov 30, 2008)

04ultra said:


> *The Champ is in the house......LOL*



Autographs for only 5.00, buy extra's for the whole family,LOLOLOLOL


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## THALL10326 (Nov 30, 2008)

sugarbush said:


> you've sent me enough BS to make up for the mator.





    

Thats good stuff I sent you, you should be able to get a 30lber out of it,LOLOL


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## sugarbush (Nov 30, 2008)

THALL10326 said:


> Thats good stuff I sent you, you should be able to get a 30lber out of it,LOLOL



you do know this could get out of control, but then again maybe eveybody would foget what they were arguing about.


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## computeruser (Nov 30, 2008)

woodcutter69 said:


> I did notice dirt on the inside of my filter, after I run only about 3 tanks full of fuel thru it. I was dead set on getting a ms260, now wish I would of spent the extra money and got one. I do not like getting a brand new saw and it is in the shop for 3 weeks until I hear that they just got the approval to work on it, that does not say much for there saws or there dealers. My dealer was a napa auto parts store, go figure. Any one thinking of getting a Dolmar, dont waste your money.



Idiotic post. You either got a dud saw, which happens with all brands from time to time, or you did something wrong with it. Either way, get it fixed and get back to work.

I think that few people whose opinion is actually worth a crap would dispute that Dolmar makes a good saw.


----------



## mountainlake (Nov 30, 2008)

sugarbush said:


> you where lucky to get a minnesota 5100  I've yet to have a 5100 come back for anything other then an rpm check. thats 4 + years, about the only thing I may do differant then most Dealers is they all are sold with .325. I don't like 3/8 on a 50cc saw. not sure what to say about the ethynol, I tell my customers to use the highest octane available but doubt if they all do. (we do have ethynol in much of our gas.) I have a hunch most of these problems is operater induced or BS.



Right, no way a 50cc saw should be running 3/8 unless strictly limbing small stuff, avoid ethonal, adjust them right, not on the edge of melting, if the saw has a air leak FIX it, don't run it at a zillion RPM if the chain is dull, it's all simple stuff and no brand is immune to people who don't have a clue. Steve


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## THALL10326 (Nov 30, 2008)

sugarbush said:


> you do know this could get out of control, but then again maybe eveybody would foget what they were arguing about.



Awwwwwwww the way I figure its just a saw. All brands fail time to time. All brands can and do let the operator down at times so I don't see the big deal about this one saw. 

We ole timers have seen many saws take a hike to saw heaven no matter the brand so tant no biggie to me...


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## grandpatractor (Nov 30, 2008)

THALL10326 said:


> Awwwwwwww the way I figure its just a saw. All brands fail time to time. All brands can and do let the operator down at times so I don't see the big deal about this one saw.
> 
> We ole timers have seen many saws take a hike to saw heaven no matter the brand so tant no biggie to me...



Hey Tom, I'm just wondering what percentage of saws fail because of the operater(dull chain, bad fuel,no oil in gas,etc)and what percent fail because of an actual defect in the saw. 
I'm thinking a high percentage of the operator.:monkey:


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## THALL10326 (Nov 30, 2008)

grandpatractor said:


> Hey Tom, I'm just wondering what percentage of saws fail because of the operater(dull chain, bad fuel,no oil in gas,etc)and what percent fail because of an actual defect in the saw.
> I'm thinking a high percentage of the operator.:monkey:



Good point. From some I have seen with my own eyes I'd say the % is much much higher on the operator than the saw itself. Hell I catch hell all the time when I refuse to sharpen a chain thats beyond sharpening. They give me a fit and I tell them forget it, I'm not taking your money handing you back a chain that I know won't cut. They get pizzed but oh well.


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## sugarbush (Nov 30, 2008)

THALL10326 said:


> Awwwwwwww the way I figure its just a saw. All brands fail time to time. All brands can and do let the operator down at times so I don't see the big deal about this one saw.
> 
> We ole timers have seen many saws take a hike to saw heaven no matter the brand so tant no biggie to me...



A friend burnt up a 280 stihl last sumner and traded it in on a 5100.

I didn't pick on him because it was a stihl.( Actually i didn't think my Dolmar would have handled that straight gas any better.)


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## SawTroll (Nov 30, 2008)

computeruser said:


> Idiotic post. You either got a dud saw, which happens with all brands from time to time, or you did something wrong with it. Either way, get it fixed and get back to work.
> 
> I think that few people whose opinion is actually worth a crap would dispute that Dolmar makes a good saw.



They do, no doubt about that!  :agree2:


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## THALL10326 (Nov 30, 2008)

sugarbush said:


> A friend burnt up a 280 stihl last sumner and traded it in on a 5100.
> 
> I didn't pick on him because it was a stihl.( Actually i didn't think my Dolmar would have handled that straight gas any better.)



LOL, good one.


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## grandpatractor (Nov 30, 2008)

I'm sure that you dealers have seen countless saws come in with the air filter plugged, foul gas in the tank and a dull chain and the operator says it won't run right. Duhhh!!! 
Well at least I have.:dunno:


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## THALL10326 (Nov 30, 2008)

grandpatractor said:


> I'm sure that you dealers have seen countless saws come in with the air filter plugged, foul gas in the tank and a dull chain and the operator says it won't run right. Duhhh!!!
> Well at least I have.:dunno:



Same here. I've seen saws you would not beleive. I love it when they say it quit running, don't understand why, I go you mean it was actually running,LOLOL


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## huskystihl (Nov 30, 2008)

computeruser said:


> Idiotic post. You either got a dud saw, which happens with all brands from time to time, or you did something wrong with it. Either way, get it fixed and get back to work.
> 
> I think that few people whose opinion is actually worth a crap would dispute that Dolmar makes a good saw.



Either way basically calling him an idiot is not cool. The guy spent his hard earned money on a saw that went to $hit and it took three weeks two get an answer from the dealer, dud saw or not he has a right to be pissed. Maybe he doesn't have 5 backups like most guy on here do.


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## Edge & Engine (Nov 30, 2008)

huskystihl said:


> Either way basically calling him an idiot is not cool. The guy spent his hard earned money on a saw that went to $hit and it took three weeks two get an answer from the dealer, dud saw or not he has a right to be pissed. Maybe he doesn't have 5 backups like most guy on here do.



Absolutely. But what computeruser was getting at is that it wasn't because it was a Dolmar. The same thing could have happed with an MS260. It could have happened to any brand, any saw. I've heard similar complaints from Stihl users, Husky users alike. But it's also not his fault if he has a crappy dealer.


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## huskystihl (Nov 30, 2008)

Edge & Engine said:


> Absolutely. But what computeruser was getting at is that it wasn't because it was a Dolmar. The same thing could have happed with an MS260. It could have happened to any brand, any saw. I've heard similar complaints from Stihl users, Husky users alike. But it's also not his fault if he has a crappy dealer.



I think the problem might be that Dolmar is licensing napa stores or any tom, #### and harry to sell their products. I had a 192 that was in the shop 3 times before it got broke in. The difference is a reputable dealer {like yourself} makes it right or gives you a new one which mine did. 3 weeks would leave a bad taste in anyones mouth.


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## 04ultra (Nov 30, 2008)

huskystihl said:


> *I think the problem might be that Dolmar is licensing napa stores or any tom, #### and harry to sell their products.* I had a 192 that was in the shop 3 times before it got broke in. The difference is a reputable dealer {like yourself} makes it right or gives you a new one which mine did. 3 weeks would leave a bad taste in anyones mouth.



Wow and Husky only sells in Dealers......  


Spacemule we need a Husky down off the rack in Isle 6 please........






.


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## mountainlake (Nov 30, 2008)

grandpatractor said:


> Hey Tom, I'm just wondering what percentage of saws fail because of the operater(dull chain, bad fuel,no oil in gas,etc)and what percent fail because of an actual defect in the saw.
> I'm thinking a high percentage of the operator.:monkey:



I'd guess around 98% from some of the above things and the ones that keep running them when the saws not running right, air leak, clogged carb. Steve


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## grandpatractor (Nov 30, 2008)

Edge & Engine said:


> Absolutely. But what computeruser was getting at is that it wasn't because it was a Dolmar. The same thing could have happed with an MS260. It could have happened to any brand, any saw. I've heard similar complaints from Stihl users, Husky users alike. But it's also not his fault if he has a crappy dealer.



Yup, there is good dealers and bad dealers in all makes and shapes.


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## huskystihl (Nov 30, 2008)

04ultra said:


> Wow and Husky only sells in Dealers......
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I never said that. Nor would I buy a saw from a lowes or an auto parts dealer.


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## grandpatractor (Nov 30, 2008)

huskystihl said:


> I never said that. Nor would I buy a saw from a lowes or an auto parts dealer.



If they gave real good service,I would!:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


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## JTElectric (Nov 30, 2008)

:agree2:

I love Kentucky Fried Chicken. Grew up with it, love Original Recipe and some mashed potatoes and gravy, man that sounds so good sometimes! However, there's a bunch of teenage dolts that work there, and half the time, they get my order wrong. Or the gravy is leaking all over the bag, and they forget my napkins. So I drive off pissed, and it takes me a few good months before I work up the nerve to pay $8 bucks for $4 bucks worth of chicken, and I go in prepared for the worst. If the employees actually cared, I'd eat there more. As it sits, I can't blame the gravy for leaking into the bag, but I can certainly blame the idiot that put it in upside down!


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## SawTroll (Nov 30, 2008)

This is getting more Trollish than I want to attend - and my name is Troll.......:jawdrop: :jawdrop:


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## grandpatractor (Nov 30, 2008)

SawTroll said:


> This is getting more Trollish than I want to attend - and my name is Troll.......:jawdrop: :jawdrop:



:yourock:    :notrolls2:


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## 04ultra (Nov 30, 2008)

SawTroll said:


> This is getting more Trollish than I want to attend - and my name is Troll.......:jawdrop: :jawdrop:



Wait till I get my Jonservarnee 2153......It better not have a problem  






.


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## SawTroll (Nov 30, 2008)

04ultra said:


> Wait till I get my Jonservarnee 2153......It better not have a problem
> 
> 
> 
> ...




If that one is Scotts, it might have a problem or two.....


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## 04ultra (Nov 30, 2008)

SawTroll said:


> If that one is Scotts, it might have a problem or two.....






Nope ..........Mine is being shipped soon ........Its going to get run just like the other firewood saws....


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## scotclayshooter (Nov 30, 2008)

04ultra said:


> Wait till I get my Jonservarnee 2153......It better not have a problem
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Only one????


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## THALL10326 (Nov 30, 2008)

fsfcks said:


> Thall...as the OP I would normally agree with you re dull chains and dust. In my experience the exception is that Osage Orange always cuts as (horrible yellow) dust, even with a newly sharp chain. I can cut Osage Orange and get dust. I can then immediately cut Eastern Red Cedar and get lovely chips.



Woo hoo, sorry I missed your post here. So your the man that has the dead 5100. This wood you speak of many have told me it doesn't chip well and makes alot of dust so therefore ignore my thoughts on a possile dull chain killing your saw. 

Lets cut to the chase and get down to business about your saw. How old is it, is it under warranty?? If it is chances are good they will take care of it. 

I only got involved in this thread when I saw my buds Lake and Cuttinscott poking at each other. I thought whats going on here, they usually don't fuss like that toward each other. I've read alot of the posts concerning the 5100 and since I own one I was curious. 

The talk about E10 is pointless because in many states thats the only gas at the pumps to buy. They use E10 at the Stihl factory at Va Beach and they're shipping out over 4 million powerheads a year there with no major problems with E10 fuel. Switching to 40:1 fuel mix I, from what I've been shown and taught at Stihl, tends to show it does more harm than good. May be ok for a old worn saw but these new saws don't need it.

Back to your saw how long was it running in this hardwood before it starting acting up on ya???


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## 04ultra (Nov 30, 2008)

scotclayshooter said:


> Only one????






They feel flimsy in the hands.......Need to see if I like it before I buy more.....


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## 04ultra (Nov 30, 2008)

http://www.sta-bil.com/sta-bil/stabil_marine.htm





*Anybody try this yet????*



.


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## scotclayshooter (Nov 30, 2008)

04ultra said:


> They feel flimsy in the hands.......Need to see if I like it before I buy more.....



In that case I will let you off lol
I will say that little 242XP of mine dont feel flimsy it vibes a bit but its a keeper!


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## 04ultra (Nov 30, 2008)

scotclayshooter said:


> In that case I will let you off lol
> I will say that little 242XP of mine dont feel flimsy it vibes a bit but its a keeper!





I found one and am going to look at it this week...


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## scotclayshooter (Nov 30, 2008)

04ultra said:


> I found one and am going to look at it this week...



Little laser beam that thing! 13" bar 325 chain.


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## fsfcks (Nov 30, 2008)

Thall..no problem. With so many posts in this thread it is easy to get lost in the forest 

The saw is less than 12 months old, and has always run "hot" from day one, even cutting wood other than Osage (I posted previously here with that issue). As my first chainsaw I lack experience to successfully diagnose small high performance engine problems, but I suspected something has never been right. I can successfully sharpen chain since it chips nicely in anything except Osage Orange. I resharpen every refill and sometimes inbetween if I have been working on Osage Orange. I also know to let the saw pull/swivel into the wood.

I can only get E10, but always use less than fresh gas (3 to 4 weeks max), good chainsaw synthetic oil, and it ran hot on both 40:1 and 50:1. It was last running 50:1 using Stihl Ultra synthetic with 3 week old gas. Also the high speed carb was at the factory setting and could not be richened due to the limiter. At that WOT was 14,500 rpm - right at the limit.

Actually now you remind me, this has been a constant problem. So I should at least try the warranty route first, although I was getting prepared to pay to get it repaired.


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## sawinredneck (Nov 30, 2008)

This poor guy!! tough crowd tonight!!

Tom, Hedge is NASTY!!! Green it cuts like hard seasoned Oak. Not uncommon to se sparks flying off the stuff.

Seasoned, well I just really don't know how to explain it to you!! Have you seen what railroad ties do to a chain? It's worse!!
I guess until you cut some it's hard to understand.


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## sugarbush (Nov 30, 2008)

fsfcks said:


> Thall..no problem. With so many posts in this thread it is easy to get lost in the forest
> 
> The saw is less than 12 months old, and has always run "hot" from day one, even cutting wood other than Osage (I posted previously here with that issue). As my first chainsaw I lack experience to successfully diagnose small high performance engine problems, but I suspected something has never been right. I can successfully sharpen chain since it chips nicely in anything except Osage Orange. I resharpen every refill and sometimes inbetween if I have been working on Osage Orange. I also know to let the saw pull/swivel into the wood.
> 
> ...



the limit caps should have been pulled by your dealer and richened up. if your dealer won't warranty it contact Dolmar, sounds like you have an honest complaint.


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## THALL10326 (Nov 30, 2008)

fsfcks said:


> Thall..no problem. With so many posts in this thread it is easy to get lost in the forest
> 
> The saw is less than 12 months old, and has always run "hot" from day one, even cutting wood other than Osage (I posted previously here with that issue). As my first chainsaw I lack experience to successfully diagnose small high performance engine problems, but I suspected something has never been right. I can successfully sharpen chain since it chips nicely in anything except Osage Orange. I resharpen every refill and sometimes inbetween if I have been working on Osage Orange. I also know to let the saw pull/swivel into the wood.
> 
> ...



Welp if its within the warranty time frame heck yes take the warranty route. If you felt the saw running hot since day one it may well have been, who knows. Take it back and have them repair that saw. If the cylinder is fried it can be fixed and best of all if the fault is in the saw as to why it fried can be found as well. They will pressure/vac test it after the repair to insure there are no air leaks which is a big culprit to burnt up engines. Not saying yours had an air leak but its good to know for certain when you get it back that it doesn't.

E10 at 3-4 weeks old wasn't your issue. Hell if thats the case half the saws in the USA would be toast. Where I work I give a dead line on E10 at 90 days exactly as Stihl has told me to. I rarely ever get a fried saw in that I sold and I tell my customers 90 days use the fuel or get rid of it. 

Back to warranty. Warranty isn't worth a hoot in hell if you don't use it. Take that thing in and getter striaghten out on their dime, not yours. Heres the thing. To you its a big deal, to a company one cylinder and piston is no big deal. If they sqauk on ya over that then you got a legit gripe. Ya gotta give them a chance first to make things right.

Did you buy this saw at a walk in dealer or mailorder? I ask because this saw should have been checked out at time of sale before all this happened..


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## THALL10326 (Nov 30, 2008)

sawinredneck said:


> This poor guy!! tough crowd tonight!!
> 
> Tom, Hedge is NASTY!!! Green it cuts like hard seasoned Oak. Not uncommon to se sparks flying off the stuff.
> 
> ...



Never fooled with that stuff Red. Hell if its that hard to saw how hard is it to split,LOL If I can't split it I sure as hell aint gonna saw it. Down here we have wood called gum wood. Cuts easy, can't spilt it 100lb maul. Anyone down here who cuts one not knowing what it is gets laffed out the woods,LOL

I think he said he was clearing so if it has to be sawed it has to be sawed. The stuff sounds like some mean chit, I'm thinking bulldozer,LOL


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## Airecon (Nov 30, 2008)

I've got a 5100 so Im curious what happened. I haven't read all the post so I don't know if its been suggested. Why don't you pour the gas in the tank into a clear glass jar and take a look at it. I've seen some pics posted here of some pretty nasty stuff. Maybe it will help you solve the problem.


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## grandpatractor (Nov 30, 2008)

Looks to me like what we have here is a saw that maybe should have been richened up a little. I think the combination of running on the edge of lean along with the E10 and working it hard with that nasty wood and being a high performance saw to begin with,did the old 5100 in. A good dealer would have knocked off the caps and adjusted it right. And a good dealer will probably warrenty it for ya. Just my guess:monkey:


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## sawinredneck (Nov 30, 2008)

THALL10326 said:


> Never fooled with that stuff Red. Hell if its that hard to saw how hard is it to split,LOL If I can't split it I sure as hell aint gonna saw it. Down here we have wood called gum wood. Cuts easy, can't spilt it 100lb maul. Anyone down here who cuts one not knowing what it is gets laffed out the woods,LOL
> 
> I think he said he was clearing so if it has to be sawed it has to be sawed. The stuff sounds like some mean chit, I'm thinking bulldozer,LOL



Some splits easy, bu if you get a crotch or a twist, you can be there a while! It splits alot like Elm.
But it's about the highest BTU you can get for firewood! 0 outside, no power and a pregnant wife, it was easy to keep 1200sf at 65 deg. Someone likened it to burning coal, not a bad refference!


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## flatpikr (Nov 30, 2008)

I'm taking a new 5100 out tomorrow for it's first outting. Did a little surgery first on the limiter tabs. Just richened it up a little. I'm guessing that my small surgery may have warranty implications. Yes? No? Seems strange to do the saw a favor and maybe void the warranty. Go figure. What is a good tach? Only ethanol out here in the sticks is in my Jack D. Cheers.


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## THALL10326 (Nov 30, 2008)

sawinredneck said:


> Some splits easy, bu if you get a crotch or a twist, you can be there a while! It splits alot like Elm.
> But it's about the highest BTU you can get for firewood! 0 outside, no power and a pregnant wife, it was easy to keep 1200sf at 65 deg. Someone likened it to burning coal, not a bad refference!



Welp thats good information. If I ever lose my mind and get married again I'll know just what to do. Honey I'll saw, you split,hehehehehe


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## huskystihl (Nov 30, 2008)

flatpikr said:


> I'm taking a new 5100 out tomorrow for it's first outting. Did a little surgery first on the limiter tabs. Just richened it up a little. I'm guessing that my small surgery may have warranty implications. Yes? No? Seems strange to do the saw a favor and maybe void the warranty. Go figure. What is a good tach? Only ethanol out here in the sticks is in my Jack D. Cheers.



If the tabs don't looked messed withthe dealer will never know,besides you doing that may avoid any issues.


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## Andyshine77 (Nov 30, 2008)

THALL10326 said:


> This post I find interesting because if its true and I'm not doulting for a second it isn't, what type of failures are we looking at here. Are we talking crank, bearings, cylinder failures, what type of failures? Also with most failures there is a cause, a fault of somekind. Air leaks at different points in the saw, thats kinda across the board there. Seems to me if there is a common failure of somekind the cause is usually a common one as well. Nail down these the types of failures your talking about Andy, I'm curious to see what these failures are.
> 
> I have read posts concerning the filter on these saws letting some dust in but for the life of me I haven't had that with my 5100. I read some posts concerning air leaks at the intake but not on mine. My 5100 has been fine since day one but I do admit it hasn't seen alot of use. It runs at 14,00-14,500 and seems to be holding up fine but I'm very picking about fresh fuel and clean filters and sharp chains. I guess its possible neglecting any of the three things I just mentioned could kill a saw turning those high Rpms pretty quick.



THALL. I'm glad you posted this. 

As of now I am not at liberty to point out exactly, the possible cause of the failures. I promised several sources that I would not be specific about the problem. 

No this is not a cop out. Some of the people involved I consider friends, some are dealers, and one guy is a local Dolmar rep. The rep handles the B&S power equipment at my local Stihl dealer. The problem is not caused by high rpm's or operator error, as some have suggested. I do believe heat to be part of the problem, and how heat effects the magnesium case, as the 510's tend to be more reliable.

The filter could be better, but I doubt it is the cause of any low hour failures. Tuning is an issue with any saw, especially with the EPA butting in.


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## THALL10326 (Nov 30, 2008)

huskystihl said:


> If the tabs don't looked messed withthe dealer will never know,besides you doing that may avoid any issues.



I agree, not that big a deal. In fact speaking of warranty. Week before last our main distributor service manager and some quality control guy from Stihl Inc walked in my little shop. Their purpose on stopping by was to find out if I was seeing any common issues occuring over and over on any Stihl products. I really had nothing to give them. In the course of the converstaion they made one thing clear to me about warranty. 

The quality control guy told me warranty is a good thing and it needs to be used whenever there is a issue of anykind within the warranty timeframe. His reasoning was this. He said before looking for a fault file the warranty and lets examine the failure. He said the manufacture needs to know whats going on with their products and one of the ways they keep tabs on their products is through warranty claims. If they see a bunch of warranty claims on some issue occuring over and over they set forth to correct the problem. In other words as he so cleverly put it, if we don't know the issues we can't correct them. 

I think this explains to me why I've never been denied a warranty claim by those guys no matter what.


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## grandpatractor (Nov 30, 2008)

I know of 2 dealers -If you buy your saw from them,they will check your carb setting a couple times a year with their tach. No charge. Another way to get you in the door and look around while you wait a few minutes. Both "good" dealers.


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## THALL10326 (Nov 30, 2008)

Andyshine77 said:


> THALL. I'm glad you posted this.
> 
> As of now I am not at liberty to point out exactly, the possible cause of the failures. I promised several sources that I would not be specific about the problem.
> 
> ...



Fair enuff. I don't expect you to bring your freinds into the converstaion if they can't speak for themselves. 

Far as high heat affecting the crankcase that would mean expansion of the crankcase I guess. So let me ask you a direct question. Have any of these freinds of yours experianced any bearings spinning in the case???


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## Airecon (Nov 30, 2008)

Andyshine77 said:


> THALL. I'm glad you posted this.
> 
> As of now I am not at liberty to point out exactly, the possible cause of the failures. I promised several sources that I would not be specific about the problem.
> 
> ...





Seems like you know something we don't! Sounds like a serious problem with the saw. Maybe Dolmar should recall it. Hope they do something before my warranty runs out!


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## Mister Twister (Nov 30, 2008)

I ran mine all summer using E-10 fuel cut about 40 Face cord or 13 full cord of mixed firewood. I adjusted the carb it seemed to run a little lean at first but so didn't my Husky. I paid $410 with a 18" 3/8 chain new and I love the saw. I have the same bar on my 455 Rancher so I keep one size chain loop and one extra bar for both saws. I think the 5100 is a little lighter and cuts slightly faster. I am going to buy a Stihl next just because I have never owned one. I want to try them all but I would buy another 5100S without hesitation.


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## Lakeside53 (Nov 30, 2008)

The part that most owners AND dealers miss, is that any saw tuned for Standard gas will run leaner unless richened for E10... Really simple, but...


That's why Stihl bit the bullet and tuned all their *** with E10 from Jan 2007. However, even though there's millions of pre-2007 units in uses, I'm not seeing any surge in burned up cylinders.. and I've taked to many other dealers (stihl) who say the same thing. E10 is here to say... work with it...


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## THALL10326 (Nov 30, 2008)

Lakeside53 said:


> The part that most owners AND dealers miss, is that any saw tuned for Standard gas will run leaner unless richened for E10... Really simple, but...
> 
> 
> That's why Stihl bit the bullet and tuned all their *** with E10 from Jan 2007. However, even though there's millions of pre-2007 units in uses, I'm not seeing any surge in burned up cylinders.. and I've taked to many other dealers (stihl) who say the same thing. E10 is here to say... work with it...



That it is. Biggest problem I've had with E10 is the landscapers hauling those metal cans around. Seems the cans go from cold at nite to hot in the day and draw water. I've had several bring in trimmers that all the sudden won't run. I dump the fuel and yikes. They dump the can and all is learnt.


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## cuttinscott (Nov 30, 2008)

THALL10326 said:


> That it is. Biggest problem I've had with E10 is the landscapers hauling those metal cans around. Seems the cans go from cold at nite to hot in the day and draw water. I've had several bring in trimmers that all the sudden won't run. I dump the fuel and yikes. They dump the can and all is learnt.



LOL Tommy now you going to start a gas can war between metal and plastic..........:monkey:  personally I prefer plastic 



Scott


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## Lakeside53 (Nov 30, 2008)

I'm all metal, but I screw the lid on tight!


Yep... landscapers... Some haven't cleaned the fuel can out in years.. Just add a few gallons of gas every few days, add about the "right" amount of oil... Some of it gets way way out of wack. And... Cap/lid? LOLOLOL

Grass, dirt, water.... They look at me like I'm a stupid gringo when I tell them to dump the gas can out now and then. Oh well, they pay in cash.


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## THALL10326 (Nov 30, 2008)

cuttinscott said:


> LOL Tommy now you going to start a gas can war between metal and plastic..........:monkey:  personally I prefer plastic
> 
> 
> 
> Scott



LOLOL. No, but I do try to sell a new can with every unit I sell, we carry the plastic and metal. Those metal cans we got cost too dayumm much. 

I had one landscaper bring in a FS110 he was moaning about wouldn't run. Outside the door he had parked his truck and trailer. On the trailer was his 5 gallon fuel mix can but something was missing, no cap on the spout. I didn't make a big deal out of it but the guy that works in the store with me saw it and goes well ya dumbazz no wonder ya dayumm stuff doesn't run, look at your gas can, where the f-ck is the top to it. The guy with the trimmer goes awwww shut the f-ck up, I don't wanna hear it. I thought those two were gonna duke it out,LOLOLOLOL


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## 04ultra (Nov 30, 2008)

*Paper or Plastic at the grocery store*.......  





.


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## cuttinscott (Nov 30, 2008)

04ultra said:


> *Paper or Plastic at the grocery store*.......
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Paper!! let those trees fall..................................................


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## THALL10326 (Nov 30, 2008)

04ultra said:


> *Paper or Plastic at the grocery store*.......
> 
> 
> 
> ...



LOL, and put the f-cking cap on the spout. Thats what my buddy Hobbie told that landscaper. I about died trying not to laff. Those boys were getting a mights rawdy,LOLOL


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## Brian VT (Nov 30, 2008)

I just got a PS-5100S from cuttinscott and I don't know nuttin' 'bout saws except what I've read here. I ran it through a couple heat cycles (like I've always done with my new dirtbike motors) and then bucked a small pile of Ash rounds. The saw sounds great, cuts great, and the plug has a nice brown color.
I have no idea what RPMs it's turning but it says 14,500 on the sticker. LOL
My "Get a Stihl" buddy that works for a tree service seemed to be impressed with it, other than the dealer being 1 hr. drive from here. I'd side with him if I was trying to make a living with a saw.
I'll look into the tach/mods/chains after the warranty runs out and I have more experience running a saw.


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## 04ultra (Nov 30, 2008)

THALL10326 said:


> LOL, and put the f-cking cap on the spout. Thats what my buddy Hobbie told that landscaper. I about died trying not to laff. Those boys were getting a mights rawdy,LOLOL



damn...............THALL keep this fishing expedition going....

I need a few hours sleep..Its going to be a long nite .......  



I love winter......Snow= more 660's




.


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## THALL10326 (Nov 30, 2008)

04ultra said:


> damn...............THALL keep this fishing expedition going....
> 
> I need a few hours sleep..Its going to be a long nite .......
> 
> ...



Well if your going out to plow snow in the cold tonite I got some advice, put a f -cking cap on,LOLOLOLOLOL


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## Urbicide (Nov 30, 2008)

THALL10326 said:


> Well if your going out to plow snow in the cold tonite I got some advice, put a f -cking cap on,LOLOLOLOLOL



:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: You heard the man!


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## Lakeside53 (Nov 30, 2008)

Snow? LOLOL it was like a spring day here...

needless to say, we aren't sking...


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## epicklein22 (Nov 30, 2008)

Sad story here for Dolmar. A guy has a problem with a 5100 and now we are uncovering more of a universal problem with the 5100 as Andyshine was hinting at. Looks like more sales for the 346xp and ms260 after AS members read this and back away from the 5100. Hopefully Dolmar can remedy the problem. I hate to see them fade away because of a few problems and bad dealers. My dolmar dealer has no previous 2-stroke experience (hardware store), so I hope he isn't just handing the saws out without checking the RPM's. Seems it might be a little to easy to land a dealership right now.......


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## skinnykid02 (Nov 30, 2008)

are the 510's part of this potential problem also?


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## windthrown (Nov 30, 2008)

Lakeside53 said:


> Snow? LOLOL it was like a spring day here...
> 
> needless to say, we aren't sking...



Yah, I signed up for Ski Patrol this year. Supposed to start this weekend, but that ain't gonna happen. I tuned and waxed all my skis today though. Pray to the snow gods...


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## windthrown (Nov 30, 2008)

epicklein22 said:


> Seems it might be a little to easy to land a dealership right now.......



I looked into being a Dolmar dealer about a year ago. They were really really pickey about location and service, and buying inventory. I have a shop here that I could run a saw shop in, but forget them. No one here runs them, and the timber falling economy is in the tank.


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## Fastcast (Nov 30, 2008)

epicklein22 said:


> Sad story here for Dolmar. A guy has a problem with a 5100 and now we are uncovering more of a universal problem with the 5100 as Andyshine was hinting at. Looks like more sales for the 346xp and ms260 after AS members read this and back away from the 5100. Hopefully Dolmar can remedy the problem. I hate to see them fade away because of a few problems and bad dealers. My dolmar dealer has no previous 2-stroke experience (hardware store), so I hope he isn't just handing the saws out without checking the RPM's. Seems it might be a little to easy to land a dealership right now.......



Well, we'll have to wait and see about this storied demise of the 5100. opcorn: 

My Dolmar dealer is still selling 5100s here in Ohio and I stop in and BS with him regularly when passing through and in 3 years of doing that, I've seen one 5100 that was smoked from an air leak.

Strange thing is, there's always a lot more Stihls in his shop, waiting for repairs than Dolmars. :monkey:


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## Justsaws (Dec 1, 2008)

Fastcast said:


> Well, we'll have to wait and see about this storied demise of the 5100. opcorn:
> 
> My Dolmar dealer is still selling 5100s here in Ohio and I stop in and BS with him regularly when passing through and in 3 years of doing that, I've seen one 5100 that was smoked from an air leak.
> 
> Strange thing is, there's always a lot more Stihls in his shop, waiting for repairs than Dolmars. :monkey:



Stihl out sells Dolmar by an embrassingly(for Dolmar) huge margin. Your dealer should have at least 100 newer Stihls for every Dolmar in his shop. If you include older Stihls than probably around 1000.

Dolmar has some issues that they need to remedy, most of which are company/dealer orienated and some design issues. 

Hopefully Dolmar will persist and overcome. The 5100 has been a black eye for many folks while the 6400 is a very good saw and a great value at $550.00. Hands down the best mid range firewood saw value around here.

They need to maintain an aggressive price strategy and greatly improve the dealer quality soon. Hard situation to deal with. 

I have never met a "professional"(earns their living using) that uses the newer Dolmar saws on purpose, chainsaw or cut-off saws. Many have purchased them and decided not to keep them. That is how I get almost all my newer Dolmars.


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## Andyshine77 (Dec 1, 2008)

epicklein22 said:


> Sad story here for Dolmar. A guy has a problem with a 5100 and now we are uncovering more of a universal problem with the 5100 as Andyshine was hinting at. Looks like more sales for the 346xp and ms260 after AS members read this and back away from the 5100. Hopefully Dolmar can remedy the problem. I hate to see them fade away because of a few problems and bad dealers. My dolmar dealer has no previous 2-stroke experience (hardware store), so I hope he isn't just handing the saws out without checking the RPM's. Seems it might be a little to easy to land a dealership right now.......



Dolmar's biggest problem is the lack of knowledgeable dealers. If Dolmar had better dealers, I think many of these issues would have been resolved by now. Most people running these saws don't even know they have a problem, they just keep running them until they quit.

 Andy.


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## Taxmantoo (Dec 1, 2008)

skinnykid02 said:


> are the 510's part of this potential problem also?



510s made before a certain date (and I believe 5100s too) have an upgrade available for the intake manifold to fix a potential air leak there.


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## SawTroll (Dec 1, 2008)

taxmantoo said:


> 510s made before a certain date (and I believe 5100s too) have an upgrade available for the intake manifold to fix a potential air leak there.



If memory serves, that date was about november 2006.


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## Andyshine77 (Dec 1, 2008)

taxmantoo said:


> 510s made before a certain date (and I believe 5100s too) have an upgrade available for the intake manifold to fix a potential air leak there.



Correct. However the issue I'm referring to has nothing to do with the intake boot sealing ring.


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## SawTroll (Dec 1, 2008)

Andyshine77 said:


> Correct. However the issue I'm referring to has nothing to do with the intake boot sealing ring.




I got that, but no probs have appeared so far.....:greenchainsaw:


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## flatpikr (Dec 1, 2008)

Just took my 5100 out for it's maiden voyage. It's a replacement for my ms250 (which is stihl in good shape) Just wanted a little more aggesiveness. Most of my big cutting is with an 044. I detuned it slightly to the rich, do not have ethanol issues, and used 100% synthetic. It did a great job on green Juniper/Cedar. Guess I'll keep it on the low side of lean until it's been through a few tanks. I'm hoping to avoid the mushroom cloud syndrome.


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## Fastcast (Dec 2, 2008)

Andyshine77 said:


> Correct. However the issue I'm referring to has nothing to do with the intake boot sealing ring.



Inquiring minds would like to know. opcorn:


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## Mister Twister (Dec 2, 2008)

epicklein22 said:


> Sad story here for Dolmar. A guy has a problem with a 5100 and now we are uncovering more of a universal problem with the 5100 as Andyshine was hinting at. Looks like more sales for the 346xp and ms260 after AS members read this and back away from the 5100. Hopefully Dolmar can remedy the problem. I hate to see them fade away because of a few problems and bad dealers. My dolmar dealer has no previous 2-stroke experience (hardware store), so I hope he isn't just handing the saws out without checking the RPM's. Seems it might be a little to easy to land a dealership right now.......



It must be an Ohio thing cause here in Upstate New York we are not having problems with the 5100 saws. My dealer has not had a one back yet for a blow up. I bet if you go closer to the city you might see some. In order for any saw to operate good and have a long life you need to understand a two stroke motors and not just run it lean to it's death ! That doesn't matter what brand it is. That's why this thread turned to brand loyalty and not facts as they all do. I am not loyal to no brand and want one of each to see which traits I like best. Have fun bashing if you must but non biased people will see through bull and still buy Dolmars because they are good saws.


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## mountainlake (Dec 2, 2008)

Andyshine77 said:


> Correct. However the issue I'm referring to has nothing to do with the intake boot sealing ring.


Sounds like the news media, we know something but can't tell where it came from. If you can't talk about it don't talk. Steve


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## spike60 (Dec 2, 2008)

mountainlake said:


> Sounds like the news media, Steve



Sounds more like the Salem witch trials. 

A saw blows up and there is talk of a "universal problem". Universal is a mighty strong word, as it caries the implication that there is something wrong with all 5100's. The 5100, like most new designs, from all OEM's, is not immune to some teething problems. There are some areas that can be improved on the intake side, and I'm sure Dolmar will address them, as everybody else does. 

For the record, all of the popular Huskys, have had improvements/changes to their intake systems since their introductions. The changes were improvements to intake boot clamps, partition wall and intake block materials, and such. That's why there are such things as service bulletins. I'm sure a Stihl dealer would say the same thing. I'd bet that there isn't a saw out there that doesn't have a few service bulletins on it.

You also need to keep in mind that in most cases, these improvements are to address a very small failure %. There are thousands of earlier saws, that never received the updates, yet never experience the problem. So, don't spook yourself into thinking that it's just a matter of time until your 5100 blows up. 

My personal experience: We have only had one 5100 failure. The throttle plate came loose and got sucked into the saw and tore it up. This isn't something that you could blame on Dolmar; the blame should really fall on Zama. But, never the less, Dolmar warrantied the saw. The only issue that I see on some Dolmars is that you should keep an eye on the carb screws being tight, as they can loosen up. I have a 2 year old 7300 in the shop that toasted itself for that reason. 

This thread has gotten a bit carried away with itself to the point that some people are afraid to buy a Dolmar. That's both unfair and unreasonable.


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## Fastcast (Dec 2, 2008)

spike60 said:


> Sounds more like the Salem witch trials.
> 
> A saw blows up and there is talk of a "universal problem". Universal is a mighty strong word, as it caries the implication that there is something wrong with all 5100's. The 5100, like most new designs, from all OEM's, is not immune to some teething problems. There are some areas that can be improved on the intake side, and Ii'm sure Dolmar will address them, as everybody else does.
> 
> ...




Good post Spike!.....Especially the highlighted part....I think the poll Brian VT put up, pretty much debunks that _'all 5100s have some inherent problem, that is going to cause catastrophic failure sooner, rather than later'_.....As a matter of fact it looks like very few do......


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## litefoot (Dec 2, 2008)

Fastcast said:


> Good post Spike!.....Especially the highlighted part....I think the poll Brian VT put up, pretty much debunks that _'all 5100s have some inherent problem, that is going to cause catastrophic failure sooner, rather than later'_.....As a matter of fact it looks like very few do......



Nonetheless, the seed of doubt has been planted and, sadly, that's all that matters.


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## Lakeside53 (Dec 2, 2008)

This thread is like watching the stock market... Hey, it's up his morning. not that I watch


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## Lakeside53 (Dec 2, 2008)

litefoot said:


> Nonetheless, the seed of doubt has been planted and, sadly, that's all that matters.



IBM called it FUD

*F*ear
*U*ncertainty
*D*oubt


it worked for them, for 40 years... and it wasn't all untrue:greenchainsaw:


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## 04ultra (Dec 2, 2008)

I bought a blown up 372 ...........I think that the manufacture should recall them ....


I guess that last years gas had nothing to do with it......That gas had a nasty smell to it ....But lets blame Husky for building a saw that cant take home owner abuse....


Thats the 3rd Husky in a few months that I bought that had that problem......





Forgot ....I bought a couple of Stihls and Dolmars that had the same problem....


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## Fastcast (Dec 2, 2008)

litefoot said:


> Nonetheless, the seed of doubt has been planted and, sadly, that's all that matters.



Maybe to an irrational thinker....Way too much praise for the 5100 for one guys blow up and another guys secretive _insight_ to mean anything. 

I like AndyS but with that said....I don't want any info on his sources, could care less but what's the big secret about what the so called problem is and why aren't more people on AS that own 5100s having this top secret failure?


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## Lakeside53 (Dec 2, 2008)

Not trying to be disruptive, but you also have to consider the sources. How many mothers think their babies are ugly? (Woodies mother did ).

The number of praisers or disparagers of any model/brand on AS is small relative to the market... How many of any one type have been sold total to all AS members, and what small percentage of those say anything, good or bad? Yes, the most experienced, trusted or loudest voices get noticed, but there's a heck of a lot of guys that just cut wood and are happy, no matter if their saw is 0.03 seconds faster or slower than any other. Reliability and support are far more important to most.

Remember all the the hype about BB kits before they came out? The instant praise, then the "Oh, .. not much better stock than oem..". Now it's kind of "flat"... 


And there's the 575, the 441, the 361... etc etc.. Some of these started negative and got better; some started positive and got worse... but in the end they all cut wood and few are unhappy with them.

Like the market, we could plot a "sentiment" indicator, and sell futures based on hype:greenchainsaw:


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## mountainlake (Dec 2, 2008)

litefoot said:


> Nonetheless, the seed of doubt has been planted and, sadly, that's all that matters.


 Kind of like politics, somebody accuses somebody of something then the media jumps in and nails the accused to the cross guilty or not, ruins thier career and most times it ends up being a pile of BS . Steve


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## SawTroll (Dec 2, 2008)

spike60 said:


> ....
> 
> This thread has gotten a bit carried away with itself to the point that some people are afraid to buy a Dolmar. That's both unfair and unreasonable.




Very true!!!     

..btw, my 2003 353 still has the original boot clamp etc, but never a problem - would you recommend getting the newer parts?


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## GASoline71 (Dec 2, 2008)

Like the Stihl 029/290... Most here "hate" it... but it continues to be the most popular saw ever sold... because it has made it's niche in the saw market. It fits perfectly in it's intended environment.

Gary


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## SawTroll (Dec 2, 2008)

Lakeside53 said:


> ....
> 
> 
> And there's the 575, the 441, the 361... etc etc.. Some of these started negative and got better; some started positive and got worse... but in the end they all cut wood and few are unhappy with them. ...



Which one went from positive to worse????  

It can't be the 575 or 361, so.....


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## GASoline71 (Dec 2, 2008)

Depends on who ya ask Niko... there are a lot that like the 441.

Gary


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## SawTroll (Dec 2, 2008)

GASoline71 said:


> .... there are a lot that like the 441.
> 
> Gary




What I thought as well, never heard of any complaits, except the power to weight thingy, and high altitude issue (that I am not sure is true).......


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## Lakeside53 (Dec 2, 2008)

GASoline71 said:


> Depends on who ya ask Niko... there are a lot that like the 441.
> 
> Gary



Ah.. but not initially... :greenchainsaw:


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## SawTroll (Dec 2, 2008)

Lakeside53 said:


> Ah.. but not initially... :greenchainsaw:



When did it go from positive to worse - the "weaknesses" I know of were pretty obvious from the outset (but not really bad).....


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## spacemule (Dec 2, 2008)

The 441 is a turd of a saw. How do I know? Any saw that doesn't pee oil on Tom Hall is a turd saw. Saws of discriminating character know better.


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## Andyshine77 (Dec 2, 2008)

Mister Twister said:


> It must be an Ohio thing cause here in Upstate New York we are not having problems with the 5100 saws. My dealer has not had a one back yet for a blow up. I bet if you go closer to the city you might see some. In order for any saw to operate good and have a long life you need to understand a two stroke motors and not just run it lean to it's death ! That doesn't matter what brand it is. That's why this thread turned to brand loyalty and not facts as they all do. I am not loyal to no brand and want one of each to see which traits I like best. Have fun bashing if you must but non biased people will see through bull and still buy Dolmars because they are good saws.



Did you read any of my posts? I'm not brand loyal, and I love the 7900's. It sounds like you're the one who is brand loyal. 

Look every manufacture has problems, it's just how they deal with them that matters. Dolmar doesn't communicate well with it's dealers, and that is part of the problem. One dealer knows this or that, and the other dealer doesn't know anything at all. 

Don't forget some people on this site have a vested interest in one brand or another, and they make their living selling that brand. Just because someone points out a potential problem with one model, doesn't make this thread out of control. 

 Andy.


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## sugarbush (Dec 2, 2008)

Andyshine77 said:


> Did you read any of my posts? I'm not brand loyal, and I love the 7900's. It sounds like you're the one who is brand loyal.
> 
> Look every manufacture has problems, it's just how they deal with them that matters. Dolmar doesn't communicate well with it's dealers, and that is part of the problem. One dealer knows this or that, and the other dealer doesn't know anything at all.
> 
> ...


now you say the 5100 just has a POTENTIAL PROBLEM, a little differant then some of your eariler post.


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## Fastcast (Dec 2, 2008)

Andyshine77 said:


> Dolmar doesn't communicate well with it's dealers, and that is part of the problem. One dealer knows this or that, and the other dealer doesn't know anything at all.



Andy, I believe this to be true.....When I mentioned to my dealer about the intake boot sealing ring, he acted like he didn't know what the hell I was talking about....He said he hadn't heard about it. He did check into it though, ordered the part and installed it under warranty....Now he did have some choice words for Dolmar, about his not knowing about it or maybe he actually did, who knows.  

All brands have problems though...._nun_ are perfect.


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## Andyshine77 (Dec 2, 2008)

sugarbush said:


> now you say the 5100 just has a POTENTIAL PROBLEM, a little differant then some of your eariler post.



No not really, go back and read them. There IS a problem, and Dolmar "may" recall some saws.


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## epicklein22 (Dec 2, 2008)

Good Post Andy!! and way to stick up for yourself!! If you were here just to bash Dolmar, you wouldn't own one. 

He is just questioning some of the dealers out there about not being up to date on their product.

Time will tell if it is a small, secluded problem or a larger issue. Seems to be a few duds out there now, but no company can escape that.....they all have problems....


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## THALL10326 (Dec 2, 2008)

spacemule said:


> The 441 is a turd of a saw. How do I know? Any saw that doesn't pee oil on Tom Hall is a turd saw. Saws of discriminating character know better.



Your assumtion based on imagination and lacking total knowledge of the said saw proves beyond a doult only one thing, your a turd, a product of no value other than fertilizer. The best of you has been spent and all that remains is a dried up ole turd. May sandpaper be on the roll the next time you take a seat on the throne and hopefully you have uncontrollable 
diarrhea for days,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


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## Andyshine77 (Dec 2, 2008)

epicklein22 said:


> Good Post Andy!! and way to stick up for yourself!! If you were here just to bash Dolmar, you wouldn't own one.
> 
> He is just questioning some of the dealers out there about not being up to date on their product.
> 
> Time will tell if it is a small, secluded problem or a larger issue. Seems to be a few duds out there now, but no company can escape that.....they all have problems....



Thanks. And :agree2:


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## THALL10326 (Dec 2, 2008)

epicklein22 said:


> Good Post Andy!! and way to stick up for yourself!! If you were here just to bash Dolmar, you wouldn't own one.
> 
> He is just questioning some of the dealers out there about not being up to date on their product.
> 
> Time will tell if it is a small, secluded problem or a larger issue. Seems to be a few duds out there now, but no company can escape that.....they all have problems....



Good post. Many problems occured with many manufactures. The name of the game is how they handle those problems. 

Here's an example. Stihl. The 028AV is considered by many one of the very best saws ever made. Very reliable and very long lasting. Not a high performance machine but a saw built to last and last they did. Its nothing to see a 20 year old 028 come in and the owner say check it out, do whatever it may need, cost is not a issue, this is the following this saw has. 

Even with the steller reputation the 028 has at one time there was a major issue with some of the early 028's that few people even knew about. The crankshaft would snap off at the clutch. Seems some of the cranks weren't built right at the factory and this snapping off sometime took years to occur before all the sudden kabom, a snapped crank at the clutch. When the issue became known to Stihl they automaticly notified all the dealers. The deal was to warranty the problem regardless of how old the saw was. The saw could be 5-10 years old, it made no differance, warranty any 028 with a snapped crank at the clutch. Thats how problems, once they are known, should be taken care of by the manufacture. I have no idea how Dolmar handles issues but if they handle them like their German counterpart, Stihl, whatever issue there may be, if any, should soon be known by all dealers and corrected ASAP.


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## FinRazr (Dec 2, 2008)

There is no way I'm reading this whole thread .How do you tell if you have the upgraded intake boot?


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## Lakeside53 (Dec 2, 2008)

SawTroll said:


> When did it go from positive to worse - the "weaknesses" I know of were pretty obvious from the outset (but not really bad).....



lolol. Are all glasses half empty in Norway?? IT went from POS to "hey, this saw works great... Sorry a redneck muffler mod won't work; get over it and cut wood"


----------



## Lakeside53 (Dec 2, 2008)

FinRazr said:


> There is no way I'm reading this whole thread .How do you tell if you have the upgraded intake boot?



Your saw isn't toasted:greenchainsaw: 


Sorry... working for a stihl dealer made it impossible for me to tell the truth...just PM Spike60 or Cuttingscott- they'll tell you...


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## spacemule (Dec 2, 2008)

THALL10326 said:


> Here's an example. Stihl. The 028AV is considered by many one of the very best saws ever made.



Interesting claim. Here's one like it. Hillary Clinton is considered by many to be one of the very best politicians ever made.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Dec 2, 2008)

THALL10326 said:


> Good post. Many problems occured with many manufactures. The name of the game is how they handle those problems.
> 
> Here's an example. Stihl. The 028AV is considered by many one of the very best saws ever made. Very reliable and very long lasting. Not a high performance machine but a saw built to last and last they did. Its nothing to see a 20 year old 028 come in and the owner say check it out, do whatever it may need, cost is not a issue, this is the following this saw has.
> 
> Even with the steller reputation the 028 has at one time there was a major issue with some of the early 028's that few people even knew about. The crankshaft would snap off at the clutch. Seems some of the cranks weren't built right at the factory and this snapping off sometime took years to occur before all the sudden kabom, a snapped crank at the clutch. When the issue became known to Stihl they automaticly notified all the dealers. The deal was to warranty the problem regardless of how old the saw was. The saw could be 5-10 years old, it made no differance, warranty any 028 with a snapped crank at the clutch. Thats how problems, once they are known, should be taken care of by the manufacture. I have no idea how Dolmar handles issues but if they handle them like their German counterpart, Stihl, whatever issue there may be, if any, should soon be known by all dealers and corrected ASAP.



Damn you TommyLooseyLips;I was making a fortune selling new cranks, and now I'm ruined:greenchainsaw:


----------



## Lakeside53 (Dec 2, 2008)

spacemule said:


> Interesting claim. Here's one like it. Hillary Clinton is considered by many to be one of the very best politicians ever made.



her new boss seems to think so


----------



## Fastcast (Dec 2, 2008)

Lakeside53 said:


> Your saw isn't toasted



Nope, not by a long shot :greenchainsaw: 

Now my crapola Stihl FS55 is....and always was a :censored: 





Lakeside53 said:


> Damn you TommyLooseyLips;I was making a fortune selling new cranks, and now I'm ruined:greenchainsaw:



and this sounds like my X-Stihl dealer and btw, he's for sure ruined.....The heel, is now OUT of BUSINESS.


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## Lakeside53 (Dec 2, 2008)

Any parts inventory going cheeep?


Damn it Tommy, I was claiming warranty AND charging for the cranks...


----------



## Fastcast (Dec 2, 2008)

Lakeside53 said:


> Any parts inventory going cheeep?



Cheap parts?...Very likely!  MS180 conrods

Parts for cheap?.....Unlikely!


----------



## THALL10326 (Dec 2, 2008)

spacemule said:


> Interesting claim. Here's one like it. Hillary Clinton is considered by many to be one of the very best politicians ever made.



Here's another claim, if a lawyers lips are moving he's charging and lieing,LOLOL


----------



## THALL10326 (Dec 2, 2008)

Lakeside53 said:


> Damn you TommyLooseyLips;I was making a fortune selling new cranks, and now I'm ruined:greenchainsaw:



Sorry bout that Lake. I didn't know you had a side business going,LOLOL


----------



## THALL10326 (Dec 2, 2008)

Lakeside53 said:


> Any parts inventory going cheeep?
> 
> 
> Damn it Tommy, I was claiming warranty AND charging for the cranks...



You was not, I know you better than that, I think,LOL

Point I was making though is how Stihl handles problems. They are very fast at notifieing the dealers once a problem is known and they make no bones about getting it striaghten out ASAP. They don't seem to ever bat a eye, fix it, replace it, just keep the customer happy.


----------



## spacemule (Dec 2, 2008)

THALL10326 said:


> Here's another claim, if a lawyers lips are moving he's charging and lieing,LOLOL



If by "lawyers" you mean "Stihl dealer's," then you are correct. You need to learn to use the right term though.


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## THALL10326 (Dec 2, 2008)

spacemule said:


> If by "lawyers" you mean "Stihl dealer's," then you are correct. You need to learn to use the right term though.



See you added something to what I said, Stihl dealer was never mentioned. In court your gonna have to learn to accept things as they are told and not what you want to hear by adding to it. Hopefully you never have to face me on the stand, I shall hand your donkey azz back to you,LOLOL

Here's another claim Space. Isn't it a shame how 99% of the lawyers give the whole profession a bad name,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## SawTroll (Dec 3, 2008)

FinRazr said:


> There is no way I'm reading this whole thread .How do you tell if you have the upgraded intake boot?



Production time - December 2006 or later should be safe, as I recall it......


----------



## FinRazr (Dec 3, 2008)

SawTroll said:


> Production time - December 2006 or later should be safe, as I recall it......




Thanks!


----------



## CHEVYTOWN13 (Dec 3, 2008)

*Long copy and paste post from a PDF. E10*

Found this on the internet searching for pictures of foul plugs and low and behold...Some of you might have read this already. Interesting stuff. 

Early in May of 2008, I purchased a 1991 model Husqvarna 3120 chainsaw with a recent shop 
rebuild to power a 72-inch Alaska Mill. Fueled with fresh mixed gas according to 
manufacturer’s specifications, the saw’s 42- inch bar easily buried itself into a huge black 
walnut log. But before the second cut was finished, the engine casing began to smoke, and the 
saw was “toast.” 
At the shop, the factory-trained mechanic determined overheating/detonation had caused 
engine failure and added my 3120 to the growing list of recent saw failures. It was suspected 
the failures were related to ethanol, especially since Oregon recently mandated E10 at all their 
pumps. 
Is Ethanol the Problem? 
An informal survey of a dozen northwest Oregon saw shops revealed that all the shops had 
noticed fuel line and carburetor diaphragm issues related to ethanol. About half of the shops 
reported experiencing saw engine failures and suspected ethanol as the culprit. 
Over the next few weeks, I sought out industry experts to try to separate myths from facts. The 
following information is a summation of interviews with Randy Scully, STIHL Inc. product 
service manager, James McNew, vice president technical affairs Outdoor Power Equipment 
Institute (OPEI), and Robert Reynolds, president of Downstream Alternatives, a fuels 
consulting company. All agreed that ethanol impacts chainsaw engine operation. 
Engine Operation and Failure Modes 
Chainsaws use precision engineered, high performance 2-cycle engines revving at 12,000 to 
14,000 rpm. The proper mixture of the correct 2-cycle engine oil and gasoline provides fuel to 
power the engine and carries essential lubrication to the rapidly moving parts. High speeds, 
friction, and combustion processes all generate heat that must be removed to avoid damaging 
the engine. 
Cooling a chainsaw occurs in two ways. Cylinder fins increase surface area available for 
transferring heat as the fan forces outside air over the cylinder/fins to remove heat. Heat is also 
dissipated by the inflow of cool air and fuel. As the air and fuel enter the combustion chamber, 
it absorbs heat energy prior to combustion and exiting exhaust gases carry away heat as well. 
Most damage to chainsaw cylinders and pistons is directly related to engine overheating due 
to either excessive heat generation and/or failure to remove heat produced during operation. 
Lean Seizure — This common failure mode occurs when the oxygen-to-fuel mix ratio is too 
lean and leads to overheating. Several factors contribute to lean seizure — a lean fuel-to-air 
mix burns hotter, saws runs faster increasing friction heat, lower fuel flow provides less cooling 
and reduced lubrication. 
Increased heat production, combined with reduced cooling, leads to piston/cylinder scoring 
and engine failure. (Typically, a lean seizure is evidenced by scarring damage on the exhaust 
side of the piston and cylinder where temperatures are the hottest.) 
The term “lean” is also used to refer to too little oil in the gas mixture. A “lean” oil-to-gas mixture 
results in more friction heat due to inadequate lubrication of moving parts and can lead to rapid
damage to engine components. 
Detonation or Pre-Ignition — Another heat related failure mode is detonation (sometimes 
called “pre-ignition”). Under normal operating conditions, the sparkplug ignites the fuel mix, 
initiating a controlled burn that moves through the combustion chamber. This “burn” produces 
a smooth power stroke to drive the piston down at the proper time. 
When overheated, excessive combustion chamber temperature can ignite fuel independent 
from the spark plug. When this happens, the two “fires” rapidly burn toward one another and 
collide creating even more heat and disrupting engine timing. The stress on the engine’s 
moving parts is greatly multiplied and may cause catastrophic failure. (Detonation failure is 
usually evidenced by physical piston/ cylinder damage and scarring at a location other than 
the exhaust side.) 
Detonation is also a function of the fuel’s octane level. Generally speaking, octane is the 
characteristic of a fuel to resist detonation. In automobiles, low octane fuel causes “knocking” 
(detonation) in the engine. 
Since automobile engines operate at relatively low rpm, the knocking is of much less 
consequence than in high speed chainsaw engines. For most operators, the chainsaw’s high 
rpm and louder ambient noise level mask the occurrence of detonation until symptoms of 
failure become evident. Many factors may contribute to overheat situations, including dirty 
cylinder/fins, plugged cooling air intake, improperly vented fuel tank, improperly adjusted 
carburetor, too little oil in fuel, wrong type of oil in fuel, air in-leakage, or an overheated spark 
plug. 
Now Add Ethanol 
Modern chainsaws are designed to run on gasoline (E0), but manufacturers offer assurances 
that they will operate properly on E10. However, it’s no secret that mixing ethanol with gasoline 
alters the characteristics of the fuel and potentially contributes to 2-cycle engine failures. Older 
equipment may be at a significantly greater risk for damage. 
Increased Oxygen — Ethanol’s higher oxygen content leans the fuel-to-air mix causing saws to 
run faster and hotter. The leaner fuel is less effective at lubricating, further increasing heat 
through friction. Ethanol is also a less effective cooling medium than gasoline. All of these 
factors make chainsaws run hotter on E10 than they do on E0 — yet properly adjusted modern 
saws should function properly without failure when using gasoline mixed with 10 percent 
ethanol. 
Fuel Separation — When contaminated with .5 percent water (about four teaspoons per 
gallon) ethanol will separate from gasoline. This is called phase separation. 
Phase separation is most likely to occur when first introducing E10 into a storage tank 
previously used for non-ethanol fuels. If not thoroughly cleaned and dried before filling with 
E10, water already in the tank may cause phase separation. Tests have shown that in fuel 
stored at 70 degrees at 70 percent humidity it will take more than 100 days before the ethanol 
will absorb enough water from the air to cause phase separation. However, repeated heating 
and cooling of storage containers, or exposing them to moisture, may increase risk of phase 
separation. 
Ethanol acts as a solvent — When operating a chainsaw on E0, residue can build up in the 
fuel system. The introduction of the ethanol, which acts as a solvent, dissolves the residue and 
allows it to pass through the carburetor, plugging the jets and preventing the carburetor from 
properly mixing the fuel and air. This again leads to a lean air-to-fuel ratio that can cause a 
failure. It is important to thoroughly clean the fuel system, tank, fuel lines, and carburetor, 
before switching to the E10 fuel. 
Pre-existing Problems Amplified 
Although using E10 gasoline should not cause a chainsaw to fail, equipment with pre-existing 
problems, not yet serious enough to cause failure when using E0, may fail when the switch is 
made to E10. 
A chainsaw adjusted to run hot and fast on E0, may run too hot when fueled with E10 if the 
fuel/air mix is not adjusted to compensate. An existing air leak, grime on cylinder fins, air flow 
obstructions, or any other problem that either increases heat production or hinders heat 
removal, may elevate a latent problem into a source of failure. 
Making the Switch to E10 
Switching from an E0 to an E10 fuel should be made in conjunction with verification of proper 
operation of the chainsaw by giving special attention to air cooling systems and fuel flow.


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## CHEVYTOWN13 (Dec 3, 2008)

Tip No. 1 — Adjusting fuel/air mixture for the fuel being used will ensure engine operation is 
within design parameters and that there is adequate fuel flow for cooling and lubrication. When 
using E10, saws manufactured after 1997 should be set to the “rich stop” on the carburetor 
adjustment screw. Carburetors without “rich stops” should be set with a tachometer to 
manufacturer specifications. 
Tip No. 2 — Experts agree, increasing oil-to-gas mix ratios will not compensate for the 
presence of ethanol in gasoline. Instead, they caution that exceeding manufacturer’s 
recommended oil-mix ratio may lead to carbon deposits and damage in the combustion 
chamber. Excess oil may also foul the exhaust system reducing the cooling capability of the 
engine. 
However, when using E10 it is advisable to mix oil with fuel at the richest ratio recommended 
by manufacturers. Tip No. 3 — When switching to E10 fuel, it is also important to verify that the 
saw’s external cooling mechanisms are performing properly. Cylinders and fins should be free 
from dirt, pitch, grease, or any other contaminant that could reduce heat transfer capability. Air 
passageways should be clear of any obstructions and kept clear during saw operation. 
Allowing sawdust, vegetation, or a shirt tail to block air flow can quickly lead to engine failure. 
Tip No. 4 — Normal precautions should be taken to prevent contamination of E10 fuels. Fuel 
should not be stored for long periods of time (over 60 days), and it is better to keep tanks 
completely full or completely empty to minimize danger of moisture accumulation. Adding a 
fuel stabilizer will help keep the fuel “good.” When using E10, it is even more necessary that 
fuel containers be shaken well prior to mixing with oil and filling power equipment. It is also 
important to shake the saw prior to running after extended idle periods. 
Older equipment may experience deterioration of fuel lines and carburetor diaphragms, 
requiring replacement. Manufacturers and fuel industry experts agree that 10 percent ethanol 
in gasoline will not, by itself, damage chain saws that have been adjusted, cleaned, and are 
operated properly. However, switching from E0 to E10 may escalate an existing problem to the 
point that the saw engine fails. Saw owners who ensure proper oil/fuel mix, correct carburetor 
adjustment, and maintain adequate cooling air flow should be able to transition to E10 
gasoline with little problem.


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