# What size of lowering rope do you use?



## Trees Company (Apr 6, 2004)

I was wondering what size lowering rope people use? Iv'e seen some arbourists use 1 inch and 5/8 but i think on alot of trees thier overkill. I use 1/2 arborplex and i've lowerd entire Oaks top and all that were about 50-60feet tall and24" diameter. with no problem. But some people need bigger for the odd one in my opinion. What size do you prefere?


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## xtremetrees (Apr 6, 2004)

Caution:
It is very easy to blow up trees.
Ive seen larger than 1/2 inch work well in a few instances.
Ive used larger than 1/2 inch in very few instances. 
Nice to have if ya need um thou.


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## Lumberjack (Apr 6, 2004)

I mainly use 1/2 or 5/8. 

However I do use 3/4 on some things. Yesterday I drug it out to lower the right side of two trees that grew together. It was around 2' on the but, and was about 5o' long. We tip tied (duh) and ran the rope through a * Pulley * and used MA to lift the piece, and then lowered it into the LZ.


It is nice to have it when you need it, makes stuff faster.


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## xtremetrees (Apr 6, 2004)

Nice lumberjack!
What did you use for the MA? A hobbs lowering device?


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## John Paul Sanborn (Apr 6, 2004)

He said pulley, so it was probably a fiddle block.


I use 1/2 inch Stable Braid for most of my rigging, it is 10,000# test. For most of what i do, I'm not shock loading the line, so I often exceed the 10:1 SWL rule. 

You need to know what you've done with the line as well as what it will take. If repeatedly dumping big wood on a locked off line (shock loading) then you should use something bigger, and retire it sooner.

The concept is "cycles to failure" even though there is no visible defect in the line, there may be enough micro damage to cause failiure under load. Espescially in the zone of repeated knotting.


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## Lumberjack (Apr 6, 2004)

6:1 MA using 2 double sheeved pulleys and a smaller single pulley under it, all from Sherrill. Hung it on top of the portty. Really easy to do. I cut a hinge towards the other side of the tree, pulled the right side till it was touching the lift side, and made a salami cut. 

If I had had more than 4 hours of sleep the night before and it wasnt my 3rd tree to kill for the day, I would have moved my bowline down lower on the right side so I could have lifted it off the stump, but a when I salamied it it only dropped 2-4" (from some stretch in the rope, I pulled the bowline that was on the lift side till it was touchin the pulley), so the shockloading was almost nill.

I got the catalog yesterday, and I see that they have some tripple sheeved pulleys. That might be overkill for most MA applications, but I can think of some places to use it .


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## John Paul Sanborn (Apr 6, 2004)

With "The Winch" you don't have to mess around with all those pullies!

Come on Carl, it will pay for it'self in a matter of weeks


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## Tom Dunlap (Apr 6, 2004)

Carl,

Instead of thinking about 6:1 MA do some research on setting up cascading or piggyback systems. 

Taking a 3:1 and adding a 2:1 on the end gives a 6:1 with less gear and quicker compression and extension action. 

Here's one to start with:

http://www.alberta-ck318.freeserve.co.uk/tackles.htm

I use 9/16" double braid for most rigging. 

Tom


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## Lumberjack (Apr 6, 2004)

> _Originally posted by John Paul Sanborn _
> *With "The Winch" you don't have to mess around with all those pullies!
> 
> Come on Carl, it will pay for it'self in a matter of weeks *



UGH!!! 


I want it so bad!!! I am tryin to get the money together for it, my truck, and an 660.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Apr 6, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Lumberjack _
> *UGH!!!
> 
> 
> I want it so bad!!! I am tryin to get the money together for it, my truck, and an 660. *



Heck, it will make you the money for the 066! 
(the truck would be pushing the believability factor a wee bit too far)

Well that is after you contract me for a week or so to help you learn how to best utilize it :jester:


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## Lumberjack (Apr 6, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Tom Dunlap _
> *Carl,
> 
> Instead of thinking about 6:1 MA do some research on setting up cascading or piggyback systems.
> ...




There is tradeoffs for everything. 

I either run the rope though my current setup and tie it off to the bottom becket (with a screwlink of course) or run a loop through like you showed with a link a while back, where pulling one is one ratio, and pulling both ends is another.


With a piggyback you couldnt compress the 3:1 all the way because the 2:1 would bottom out. 

Whats the advantage of piggyback over standard setup?


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## Lumberjack (Apr 6, 2004)

> _Originally posted by John Paul Sanborn _
> *Heck, it will make you the money for the 066!
> (the truck would be pushing the believability factor a wee bit too far)
> 
> Well that is after you contract me for a week or so to help you learn how to best utilize it :jester: *



The way it is goin, it wont be long, I get done with one job, come home, 2 more are own the answering machine. Go to those and the neighbors want somthing done.


Shouldnt be long now. What would be the wait if I said get it today, when would I have it?


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## xtremetrees (Apr 6, 2004)

> _Originally posted by John Paul Sanborn _
> *With "The Winch" you don't have to mess around with all those pullies!
> 
> Come on Carl, it will pay for it'self in a matter of weeks *



what is the winch? 
It would be nice doing in one cut what most do with 10 cuts.
I can see how it wood be faster to


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## Lumberjack (Apr 6, 2004)

Good Rigging control System.

It is a capstan winch that self tails so it only requires one groundy to operate. 


Runs around 2500 retail, but JPS is a salesman D) and he gets a deal for sellin them, so he reduces the price some.


I want one bad,


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## Lumberjack (Apr 6, 2004)

Oh.... and it offers a 12:1 MA in one direction and a 4:1(?) in the opposite. Helps for takin up slack.

Bout time for me to head back out. Gotta go get the trunk up from yesteday and then go trim a beautiful oak that has a huge amount of deadwood.


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## ROLLACOSTA (Apr 6, 2004)

im using YALE XTC 12 5/8 ,with 5/8 block and porta wrap..unless your lowering extremly heavey lumps i cant see the point in using fiddle blocks am i correct???


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## ROLLACOSTA (Apr 6, 2004)

arborists overhere use a fiddle for tensioning a lowering rope ..ive never used one but ..thats what ive been told


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## ROLLACOSTA (Apr 6, 2004)

ROCKY yes your correct im wrong just read catalogue..uses for tensioning up zip line [used with prussik]or for pulling up lowering lines when branches become stuck...i stand corrected ,like i said ive never used one ,but now ive read more i like the sound of um


ive always thought i can tension up a rope on my porty no problem


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## TheTreeSpyder (Apr 6, 2004)

i use 1/2" Blue Streak etc. mostly; have a 5/8" StableBraid, and a 1/2" static tucked away for extremes.




When pre-tightening and not lifting; i think the last differance between 100 # tensioning and 250# tensioning is not a lot of rope; but is a lot of help. What ever tightening,compressing strategy you use, i think the quick, topping off of the pressure by anchoring the pull leg tight and sweating in more line purchase will very quickly tighten that last lil squeeze of line more, that is so high tension.

If the technique is done sharply enough, i beleive sweating in a 5/1 compressin jig could give well over 6:1; and prolly even a 3:1 sweated tight could bring 6:1. It'd be great for line tightening/short tightenings; not as nice as a 6:1 pulley system for doing lifting though. If the redirect support is frictional, climber can give ground extra purchase, sweating in, then ground pulls the purchase over the friction buffer/barrier of the support to try to capture. A high pulley would tend to let the line re-equalize, and not 'capture' more line on the control side.


i think pretightening, preloads the line with supporting pull before the load is placed on the line. i like to think of taking a dynamic line and prestretching it to it's 'static range' per that load; so that it is prestretched to the load, so will not stretch etc. The fact that the line is dynamic covers you might guess wrong, it be not feasible to expend the effort to tieghen to load, impacting etc.; so ya just do what ya can, as close as possible. Then you have an iline shock absorber in the dynamic /stretching range. In overhead rigging; if you can get any hinge travel, and the load moves away from the support, the load can thereby leverage the line tigher further before tearoff. Making hitch point on load and hinge point considerations for the line leveraging. If the line carries most of the weight before tearoff (like it only usually would after), i think the mechanichs change. i think it changes to a 1st class lever, so at this point if the load is also near balanced on the line , then; travel on the hinge is light and easy, due to hinge's load being lightened by this occurance. Another way the job of the hinge is lightened is if tensioned angle of the rope fibers in the rigging line pull back into the hinge, so that the hinge fibers are relieved of this job. If there is no compression into the hinge area, the stick falls, usually the hinge fibers give that compression, but the rope angle pulling back into the hinge can aid this IMLHO. 

Rope tension is working power loaded into the line. Rope is a powerful, flexible, almost magic tool IMLHO.


:alien:


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## rbtree (Apr 7, 2004)

OK, it's the gear freak checking in.

You name it, we use it. 

For light lowering, often using natural crotches, we use cheap 1/2 inch, 12 strand or retired climb lines. Next, 1/2 inch double braid (works in the chain saw capstan winch). Then 9/16 db, and 3/4 for rare wood lowering. Have fiddle blocks, 2 portawraps, a Hobbs LD, and the GRCS (shared with another tree service) is being delivered any day now!!!!!!!

For the ultimate pull line, or lifting line with the GRCS, we're getting a 9/16 jacketed spectra line, rated at 18,800 minimum tensile strength. 3% stretch at 30% load. Now we're talkin"!!

TC, if you're lowering 24 inch tops with 1/2 inch ArborPlex, you are far far exceeding the working limits of that line. It should not be used for any load over 540 lb. But I'll bet I misunderstood you, you probably meant that was the tree dbh....I wouldnt lower more than an 8-9 inch oak top on such wimpy line...unless i were letting it run to the ground.

Are you guys using a portawrap?


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## rbtree (Apr 7, 2004)

i like to think of taking a dynamic line and prestretching it to it's 'static range' per that load; so that it is prestretched to the load, so will not stretch etc. The fact that the line is dynamic covers you might guess wrong, it be not feasible to expend the effort to tieghen to load, impacting etc.; so ya just do what ya can, as close as possible. Then you have an iline shock absorber in the dynamic /stretching range. Rope tension is working power loaded into the line. Rope is a powerful, flexible, almost magic tool IMLHO.


:alien: [/B][/QUOTE]

Only one problem, Ken,

Our rigging lines are not very dynamic at all. They have less than half the stretch of static rescue/ascending/descending lines. 8% stretch at 30% of load is not what I'd call dynamic...compared to under 3% for high modulus fiber lines, yes. (spectra, dyneema, kevlar, technora, etc.)
Anyhow, I know what you're saying, pretension the lines.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Apr 7, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Lumberjack _
> *
> 
> Runs around 2500 retail, but JPS is a salesman D) and he gets a deal for sellin them, so he reduces the price some.
> *



I was marketing for Greg, but too many of the deals I set up went off somewhere I was not getting credit for.

I have a relationship with a vendor who is very reasonable. That is all I'm allowed to say.

They usually ship withing a matter of days.


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## Lumberjack (Apr 7, 2004)

> _Originally posted by John Paul Sanborn _
> *I have a relationship with a vendor who is very reasonable. That is all I'm allowed to say. *




That sounds soooo dirty.


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## TheTreeSpyder (Apr 7, 2004)

Of course RB is right, those dynamic climbing lines are really springy and ours don't come close. And i should use better matching terms... Line tension is power, so silent in the rope, it can be overlooked, not accreditted IMLHO.

i make my analagy from a scale running from cable as static and one of our climbing lines as dynamic. Seeking the no stretch, no drop, positive steering and handling like on the end of tight cable when i can. So i tighten the line as much as possible, then tighten it more on the moving hinge if possible, to at tearoff have the pull/tension in the line as close to the load pull as possible. i get part of this from the way that the line holds me in the air.

i think that line tension is pull; if that pull equates the load's pull, the load floats/ is very handleable. The line tension also powers line leveraging from a line not running straight down or bent around the load etc. to steer sideways powerfully. i think that when using it like that and having the line pretensioned, the steering starts immeiately, and you actually want to lay the load into the line to tense the line more, to leverage more; then feed across as the line pulls and you are using it's power. If ya catch it just right, the line leverage can force a stronger hinge, by scheduling it's hard pull at the first folding of the hinge.

With such a high pull on the line, the weight of the limb is carried more on the line, and i beleive the line (rather than the hinge)then becomes the pivot, changing the mechanichs. If the load is close to balanced now at the hitchpoint, the hinge's job is very light, and it will push the balanced load around.

Line tension can also be angled to pull out on hinge, that would tearoff earlier logically; or it can compress into the hinge, to lighten hinge's duty i think. For the limb to 'stick' to stop/hinge there must be compression or the limb falls. So the tensioned fibers in limb, force the compression underneath them,a nd the limb stays. A line pulling back into the hinge, can take over part of the tensioned fiber's job, and force compression. Cutting to far down can pinch saw or worse... But, with a small face, and releiveing a lil tension in the line, you can provide the path of least resistance that it seeks.

When the line is empowered with so much tension as to closely match the load, it can power these things on the load too. You can always let more slack, but not always tighten; so for broadest range of control i pretighten habitually, taking the play out of the machine if possible, then try to leesen impact by carrying farthest on hinge.

To force a stronger hinge (it can be babied here on such tight lines, and make a weak hinge) i'll use the line leveraging, or ground throws a throw line over end and forces strength, or..... let load down an inch or so, then 'catch it' back while still on hinge. Any way to hyperload hinge at first flexing, to force stronger hinge for rest of ride. Now i feel like i have a stronger hinge, and a tightline on load.

Rope can give magical help and be an interesting puzzle i think.

:alien:


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## Tree Trimmer (Apr 8, 2004)

I use a retired Blue-streak climbing line for 90% of my lowering. If it gets too time consuming to take little chunks (< 600lb.) out we'll switch over to a 3/4" stable-braid for the bigger stuff.

While there's no substitute for a good knowledge of rigging, there are several ideas floating around the forum that *are gonna get somebody hurt* . Anytime you bend rope around rope, the friction, bending and tensions induced are much greater than you can imagine. I know the lines we use are very strong, but they're load rated for a reason. To use something like Arbor-plex to rig 800 lb. off of is irresponsible. Also, many of the "techniques" I've seen suggested around here put people in the DZ. 

If you want to try something new, and can do it safely without taking a big risk, then use good judgement to do so. Otherwise it would be best to hook up with someone else who already uses similar rigging to show you how it works, and what to watch out for.


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## Trees Company (Apr 8, 2004)

> Tree trimmer said To use something like Arbor-plex to rig 800 lb. off of is irresponsible. Also, many of the "techniques" I've seen suggested around here put people in the DZ.


 If your reffering to me I say that I have been cautious when comes to my work and I double up with ropes whne thiers a question of strenght, if a heavier rope isn't available. I dont practice technics that are beyond my capabilities or my equipment. I talking about straight lowering with no rigging,


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## TheTreeSpyder (Apr 8, 2004)

i speak of technique some too; i am constantly aware and care-full that someone might get hurt; try to be exact. Guess we've forgotten about the running disclaimer to that effect....

But i say, that what might be called a technique; is generally just a certain value(s) of the same formulae of support and steering that are pushed to their upper leverages/ powers carrying sometimes the rest of the formulae; to support the bulk of support etc. Whereby, the angle, tension, bends in the line, hinge shapes, face shapes etc. are constant components/ variables in a formulae of support; perhaps they are mostly zero or neutralized etc. and seem like not part of it; but they are! And that learning to command and use them, also makes you more aware of them not setting up against you unasked etc.; for you are always working with them. So it is easier to see their patterns when the mistakenly arise. Even after the fact, if things didn't go as expected; being able to diagnose correctly should grant a higher return on the cost of the lesson IMLHO. The tie downs for high leverage examples by way of the bent line, were to show in a simple, inspectable way, the force of any bent line; working for or against you. Warnings about Clock Hitch (from TB), DWT support loads, side leveraging anything (crabiners, lines etc.) inherent in the lesson.

i don't like people in the killzone (path, axis of path or landing area). Even the throw bag thing can be done outside of the KZ; especially if ya wrap the ball around something real quick and pull down on other end for a quick ~2:1, on the leveraged position, of forcing the hinge stronger.

Of course impacted 600 is worse than gently handed off; ~no impact 800. But, good rules of thumb nonethe less; might even go more conservative; situation, line history depending.

Welcome aboard TreeTrimmer!
:alien:


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## TreeJunkie (Apr 8, 2004)

At Hendrickson Tree Care we use retired climbing ropes{ usually hi-vee or safety blue}, as our primary lowering lines... If we get into anything over about 400 lbs or are blocking wood down repeatedly then we'll switch over to 3/4 double braid, Ive thought of getting 1/2 stable braid to replace for the 1/2 lines but the boss shot down the idea.


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## MasterBlaster (Apr 8, 2004)

1/2" Stable Braid rocks. Its amazing the load that line can take, for the size it is.


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## ROLLACOSTA (Apr 8, 2004)

why use retired climbing lines? if there not good enough to climb on ..are they good enough to lower big lumps???...when im lowering a lump over a paved area or what ever i dont want any failiure..as i cant stand moaning clients

old climbin lines are ok for top but i dont think there any good for trunk


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## TreeJunkie (Apr 8, 2004)

RC,,,
I'm not using nasty old ropes here, as RJS say i climb on ropes for about 6 months till they get a little fuzzy,,maybe a tiny nick but nothing major,, if a rope gets in bad shape it is trash, not uses for lowering , I've never had a lowering line break ( knock on wood) and hope never to.


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## ROLLACOSTA (Apr 8, 2004)

ah i see overhere we use a rope for on average 2 years ,ive known some old timers to have a rope for 5 years or more..and there real fuzzy..obviously a 6 month old rope is no problem


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## igetbisy (Apr 9, 2004)

Hey rocky, I'll give you $$ for some of your retired ropes if they are what you claim.


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## Greg (Apr 10, 2004)

I prefer 1/2 lowering ropes, double braid, I also have a 1/2 super braid that has been a great rope for the rough natural crotches of the live oaks around here. I also use 5/8 stable braid when I know that I'll be taking a big top, or doing some heavy lifting with the GRCS. 
The GRCS is a kick butt peice of gear. I did one of those removals Friday that make the GRCS (and me) look like such a pro. A 50ft 20inch chinese tallow tree between 2 houses. Tree was perfect for the winch, one main central tall leader, one large leader over a neighbors house, one over the customers house. Used the winch to take each 20ft long branch over the houses in one cut raising the limbs up and lowering them straight down nice and easy. Then drop the top. The GRCS allowed us to take that tree down in less than an hour, with a lot less cutting in the tree and a higher degree of safty. (with out the GRCS I could have had the tree down in about 45 more minutes, but guys would have had to get on the roofs, GRCS keeps you off roofs.) I can train a tree guy in about 10 minutes how to use the GRCS and they are always blow away when they see the size of logs they are able to lift.
Greg


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Apr 11, 2004)

I guess I'm he only guy here who likes to use smaller ropes. Most of the time I lower stuff that'll go through the chipper, then when I get down tot he spar, it gets flopped down.
Lot's of trees only need a few limbs roped off and the rest can just be dropped or dropped with the spar. That in mind, why drag out some big heavy rope?
A favorite of the ground crew is a 10mm static line that's stuffed into a bag designed for a 12mm rope, so there's plenty of room for fast stuffing. It's light, small, and static. 
The other day Ipulled out the 12mm rope and heard a guy say, "Oh, we gotta use this big thing?"


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## Lumberjack (Apr 11, 2004)

I like smaller ropes too, but if I ever need a bigger rope, then I want to have it then.

Most of the time I just have to rope down limbs, but I dont like not having a tool with me when I need it.

My favorite (or most used) rope is a 12 strand from NE that I get on ebay for real cheap (75' for $29). The rope wears like iron, is real cheap, and it is great for natural crotches, and lowing a limb off its stub, ect... However there are many times when I need to tip tie and lift (GRCS) or whatever where natural crotches just wont work. Then out comes the 1/2 Super Braid or bigger when needed.


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## rbtree (Apr 11, 2004)

Mike,

Using small 10-12 mm lowering lines sounds nice. But I'd guess you'd want to use a friction device, as they'd be hard to hold, especially the smooth and stiff static line. 

When it's time to downgrade my 3/8 entry line, I'll try it out.

With our predominance of conifers with usually small limbs, I like to use cheap, relatively light 1/2 inch 12 strand, moving it up as I go, using a natural crotch and a stub or two for friction if needed. Self lowering makes ground work easier. These cheap lines last plenty long, so I only bother with blocks when it makes sense, say to make line retrieval faster and easier.

Carl, you're probably referring to Treeline, NERopes product comparable to Arborplex by Samson. I like it, as it is softer than Arborplex, which means it wears faster..but no big deal...it also has a nubbier feel.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Apr 11, 2004)

I always tie a friction device to the base before I go up, when I know there will be some lowering. That way it's there and I don't have to sit in the tree and wait for it to be attached and worry they tied it wrong, or worse, not have it there if it's needed.
We do very little natural crotch rigging.
The static rope is nice because it is resistant to snaging and seems less likely to tangle, the stiffness works to our advantage.


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## Lumberjack (Apr 11, 2004)

Actually it is the saftey pro, best of my knowledge. The rope has the same flecks, and is from NE. Also it has a 7k tnsl from the dude on ebay, so that would all seem to match up with it being saftey pro.


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## rbtree (Apr 11, 2004)

Oh yeah, that's nice line..the NE rep showed me some at the 2002 ISA Expo, before it was on the market. But it costs about the same as white 16 strand NE or Yale. I rarely buy 12 strand for light lowering as I usually use retired climb lines, but if I do, I get the cheap stuff at 230-250 per 600 feet.


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## Lumberjack (Apr 11, 2004)

I get it from cyberstud1 on ebay. He always has short lengths available (which for me work great, but for you they might be a little short). I get the rope to tie down the trailers, as a handline/tagline, and for rigging in natural crotches, or off the limbs stubs. $29 cant be beat for a 75' rope that wears like these. He had a 100'er for 30 somthing I think not too long ago. 

It is about time for me to get some more short ropes as one I have is just about shot, as it gets used for everything and gets treated like hell (but regularly washed).

I like lowering the wood to the groundies letting them pull the limb closer to the truck before I set it down (which is a little faster, but it keeps the LZ cleaner, which is the main reason). 

Tuesday I took a limb that was a lil too big for not takin any wraps (around the limb and cut so it would be like .5 a wrap). I let it run past the sensitive stuff and let it go. Got a lil rope burn, but nothing major because the cauluses took it fine. Made it hard to climb because my hand was sensitive to the feel of rope, but it is fine now. 

It is very fast to take a 75' rope, and use both ends to work from. (Using a wrap on the limb, cutting it, and lowing it) You lower the first one to the groundies and while they are untieing that end, I am using the other and setting up for the next cut. It makes a steady stream of limbs comin down. With out any wraps, using the stub as a pulley, I can handle limbs of up to 175-200#s without hurtin myself. 

Sometimes the wraps will lock up (which always sucks) so I am startin to use a munter or a varient of it when needed.

That is one app where one handing the saw comes in handy.


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## xtremetrees (Apr 11, 2004)

Man I cannot wait to get home and smoke the rope.
Anyone got pics of glazing on ropes.
I love it when the groundies see the smoke poof in the air.
Smells good to.
I have tried to find a suitable fritction device to rope out my own tops, big limbs, etc. 
I dont like ropeing out heavier stuff 200+ on a munter hitch.
Too much friction on the hand unless your wearing rapelling gloves.


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## TreeJunkie (Apr 11, 2004)

Tom used to have a device, I believe he called it ALF, not sure what happened to that device. Tom still using it?


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## TheTreeSpyder (Apr 11, 2004)

The rope retirement section of the Samson Tree Climbing Catalog starts on page 24, pix of True Blue in various stages of wear on page 26. Has also rules of thumb for rope work, bending radius's for static or moving line points etc.

If you go to Samson Catalog Downloads you can view the catalog by L.Clicking it. If you R.Click the download file, you can choose "Save Target As" to download a copy for viewing off line etc. without constantly waiting for downloading pages. Lots of good stuff free from Samson in it.

On the same page is the huge industrial catalog with all kinds of more info on ropes in general and some familiar names like doublebraid, Tenex, AmSteel in depth etc.

Cheap Education


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## Lumberjack (Apr 11, 2004)

I was talkin about the munter over the stub, not a biner. With it around a stub (over 6") that is alot of room for pleny of friction.


I also have one 12 strand that has some glazing on it, I might take a pic tomorrow. Why a pic tho? Dont know what it looks like?


I have a device called an ATC, it uses a biner and acts like a stitch plate, and is used mostly by people other than arborist. Is that what you are talkin about?


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## rbtree (Apr 11, 2004)

I use a steel biner on each end when using that technique... That this is incorrect use of a biner has been thoroughly hashed over... sorry but it won't stop me...We're talking a 50 kn biner being loaded with at most 50-100 lb of side load...big deal IMHO...I never lower bigger than 500 lb on a biner, (and seldom that much)and then it is with a half hitch or two ahead of it, then clipped around the line and back, so at no time is the load ever a problem.

Alternative tricks...use several stubs and do any combination of rope routing to achieve desired friction...use a figure 8, muenter, or mini porta wrap---never got one, don't see the need, but it's a slick tool. And of course carry slings,and lower 2 or more at once.

Correct spelling is sticht, I think...and yes an ATC acts similarly, but is best used for belaying, not lowering.


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## Lumberjack (Apr 11, 2004)

> _Originally posted by rbtree _
> *Alternative tricks...use several stubs and do any combination of rope routing to achieve desired friction...use a figure 8, munter, or mini porta wrap---never got one, don't see the need, but it's a slick tool. *




I use a runnin bowline, which slows me down enought to let the groundies get the last one undone.


When I say rig it off the stub, I mean make the wraps next to the trunk on the limb, tie off the limb about a foot from the wraps (depends) and then cut in between. That allows for all the friction I need normally.


If I was using super braid, then I would use an 8 to rig off of to let the cover and core share the load.

I have thought about using a porty like device for topping cuts up top, that way the loads on the spar would be in half, however then you gotta mess with the rope not feedin right, but it could still work.


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## OutOnaLimb (Apr 11, 2004)

For the most part I work in small confined spaces and dont like to take down big chunks when ever possible. Small pieces are easier to handle although they can be more time consuming. A 1/2 inch arborplus devoted striclty to use as a lowering line for general lowering, or with bigger stuff I use a 5/8 stable braid. I really dont want to risk property damage or safty using an old climb line for lowering. 

Kenn

:Monkey:


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