# New climber advice needed



## RYNOMAGNUM (Mar 18, 2012)

Hello, I am wondering if I can use a new school saddle for old school technique .... My employer uses a 4D bossum saddle to spur their way to the top for removals.(All we do). They throw a True Blue across a natural crotch and tie in a blakes hitch using the same rope for positioning and descent .....

Can I incorporate a rope bridge saddle using their traditional technique? I like what I hear about the'' Ergovation'' saddle ,but wonder if this is an option for me? If so .....what is a good setup for my application? Any advice would be greatly appreciated !!!


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## pdqdl (Mar 18, 2012)

I can't see what difference it would make. Saddles all attach to a rope, either at one point, or two.

"Old School" climbing uses one attachment point, which is well suited to a rope bridge with a single attachment in the middle.

In order to tie "old school" to an "old school" saddle, you needed to snap the d-rings on either side together to the single snap attached to the rope. No real difference, from the rope's perspective.


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## RYNOMAGNUM (Mar 19, 2012)

pdqdl said:


> I can't see what difference it would make. Saddles all attach to a rope, either at one point, or two.
> 
> "Old School" climbing uses one attachment point, which is well suited to a rope bridge with a single attachment in the middle.
> 
> In order to tie "old school" to an "old school" saddle, you needed to snap the d-rings on either side together to the single snap attached to the rope. No real difference, from the rope's perspective.



Thanks for the info. I just wanted to ask and make sure because my "crew" has never even seen a rope bridge....


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## pdqdl (Mar 20, 2012)

I'm afraid I don't care for them very much, myself. I rely on the old fashioned D-rings on either side to keep me from twisting around due to gravity. While the rope bridge allows for a great deal more movement, it also is more demanding on your torso.

My torso told me it has had enough work, put the old saddle back on.


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## RYNOMAGNUM (Mar 20, 2012)

pdqdl said:


> I'm afraid I don't care for them very much, myself. I rely on the old fashioned D-rings on either side to keep me from twisting around due to gravity. While the rope bridge allows for a great deal more movement, it also is more demanding on your torso.
> 
> My torso told me it has had enough work, put the old saddle back on.



Thanks for the response. I have been in the "company's'' saddle and find it a little weird to have my legs and knees crammed together. I hope another saddle will feel better personally. I am new to the climbing thing obviously , but I hope I can get more out of my hang-time experience.... I suppose to have a saddle coming in this week to try if I can make it to Vermeer before they close. I hope I can find a happy medium for me . Thanks again. I really do appreciate it.
, Ryan


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## formationrx (Mar 21, 2012)

*......*

op you should try a seat saddle they dont pinch your hips


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## pdqdl (Mar 21, 2012)

In my experience with other climbers, the guys that feel like they are getting squeezed in the hips are smaller fellows, who are setting the butt belt too low; perhaps using a belt that is too large for them.

Ideally, a butt-belt will be held tight, right where your gluteous muscle meets your thighs. You need to tighten up the leg straps nice and snug. If the belt is riding lower on your butt than that, raise the waist belt, if possible.

MANY guys complain that the leg straps keep damaging the family jewels, and they leave them nice and loose. Wrong! This allows everything to slip around while you are climbing; eventually something gets uncomfortably pinched. Make everything snug, and then you will stay comfortable.

I went through this recently with a guy that had been climbing for 15 years. He was amazed to find that tighter is less crushing than looser.


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## tree md (Mar 21, 2012)

Well every since I read about that guy who lost a testicle wearing a Treemotion harness over on another site, it has pretty much done away with any curiosity I might have had about any of the newer leg strap saddles.


---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?vmbjgk


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## Buzzkill (Mar 21, 2012)

pdqdl said:


> MANY guys complain that the leg straps keep damaging the family jewels, and they leave them nice and loose. Wrong! This allows everything to slip around while you are climbing; eventually something gets uncomfortably pinched. Make everything snug, and then you will stay comfortable.
> 
> .



My genitals have sent you rep


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## oldirty (Mar 21, 2012)

i'd say for a new to the game climber the best belt bang for the buck would be the pinnacle by buckingham. has the bonsun seat and floppy d ring that will give you that rope bridge feel.... i know what you are looking for from your attachment to your saddle and this saddle is/will offer that feel you need. the seat is what sells this type of saddle because ,you as a new climber, will find your self sitting around a bit trying to figure out your next move will be and you may as well do it comfortably. 

also. get your self 2 carabiners and a large swivel dog snap (thanks larry.) for your climbing system. the first biner you tie to your climbing line and dead end to the saddle. the second biner is for your hitch cord or splittail. the large swivel dog snap will advance your knot.

ask me about the split tail or hitch cord and i'll tell you to do a search. you want to climb better then have a look around.

but i promise you this once you climb on an open system you will never climb on a closed system by choice again.

plenty of loops and what not for gear storage on the pinnacle as well and the pinnacle deluxe is priced well enough that you will get many good years of use for the money spend. they are pretty rugged.


keep asking questions.


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## Toddppm (Mar 22, 2012)

tree md said:


> Well every since I read about that guy who lost a testicle wearing a Treemotion harness over on another site, it has pretty much done away with any curiosity I might have had about any of the newer leg strap saddles.
> 
> 
> ---
> I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?vmbjgk



More info on this please???????!!!!!!! How the hell does that happen?


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## RacerX (Apr 7, 2012)

Get a rigid bosun seat for your saddle and your testicle squeezing will end. I migrated from the standard butt strap, which squeezes the jewels, to leg loops which are uncomfortable when suspended for a few minutes, to rigid bosun which is the most comfortable.


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## tree md (Apr 7, 2012)

Toddppm said:


> More info on this please???????!!!!!!! How the hell does that happen?



Todd, you can read about it in awakenings on that buzzy site. I thought it was kind of funny that he still raved about that harness even after loosing a testicle...


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## Saw Dust Smoken (Apr 7, 2012)

*saddles*

Maybe he needs to lose both nut. Or get off the crack! Talking a saddle up after being half neutered! No nuts!! = No brains! Ditch the leg strap style crap. Theres enough thing to worry about at work.


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## RYNOMAGNUM (Apr 8, 2012)

oldirty said:


> i'd say for a new to the game climber the best belt bang for the buck would be the pinnacle by buckingham. has the bonsun seat and floppy d ring that will give you that rope bridge feel.... i know what you are looking for from your attachment to your saddle and this saddle is/will offer that feel you need. the seat is what sells this type of saddle because ,you as a new climber, will find your self sitting around a bit trying to figure out your next move will be and you may as well do it comfortably.
> 
> also. get your self 2 carabiners and a large swivel dog snap (thanks larry.) for your climbing system. the first biner you tie to your climbing line and dead end to the saddle. the second biner is for your hitch cord or splittail. the large swivel dog snap will advance your knot.
> 
> ...



Ok, I am fixing to buy the Pinnacle Deluxe after a hard look at it. I have climbed more over the last few weeks and think you have given me some excellent advice!

I am also looking into the "Single-Eye tail Blake's hitch" set-up. Would you incorporate a micro pulley or Hitch Climber into this with the large swivel dog snap? 


Would a 10mm split-tail work good with my 13mm True Blue climbline? I'm looking at the Grizzly-Spliced Bee-line Black at Sherrill offered in 8 or 10mm...


I am trying to find the right system and I believe I am getting close.... Thanks for any advice!

,Ryan


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## freeweight (Apr 9, 2012)

what exactly will u be using for a friction hitch is the question

isomtimes use 11mm blaze to tie a blakes on blue streak and dont have any probs


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## fishercat (Apr 9, 2012)

*I have a Komey Butterfly saddle.*

been using 8mm beeline for a bridge last three years. Works fine and I weigh 225.


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## RYNOMAGNUM (Apr 9, 2012)

freeweight said:


> what exactly will u be using for a friction hitch is the question
> 
> isomtimes use 11mm blaze to tie a blakes on blue streak and dont have any probs



I will be tying to 13mm True Blue and using a Blakes hitch with the single eyed Bee Line .


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## RYNOMAGNUM (Apr 9, 2012)

fishercat said:


> been using 8mm beeline for a bridge last three years. Works fine and I weigh 225.



Glad to hear I'm headed in the right direction as far as the Bee Line! How you been Fishercat? What hitch are you using? I'm about ready to gear up for myself and its a lot of decisions with all the stuff that's available on the market.....


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## freeweight (Apr 10, 2012)

id rethink BEEline for a open hitch ,i took my 10mm beline that i used for a distel and tried a blakes and jesus b christ it locked tighter than f.knox


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## RYNOMAGNUM (Apr 10, 2012)

freeweight said:


> id rethink BEEline for a open hitch ,i took my 10mm beline that i used for a distel and tried a blakes and jesus b christ it locked tighter than f.knox



So it wouldn't run? To much grip? Dang, I thought I was on to something good.... 

I'm looking for something I can use on my lines at work AND be able to use on my personal lines to keep from burning the ends of them up. I am comfortable with the Blakes and all.... Maybe a switch in my setup completely.... ???


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## tree md (Apr 10, 2012)

With traditional friction hitches I have had better results using the same sized diameter splitail as my climbing line. And it doesn't really have to be anything fancy. If you have some old climbing line around it would work great and be free.


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## RYNOMAGNUM (Apr 10, 2012)

tree md said:


> With traditional friction hitches I have had better results using the same sized diameter splitail as my climbing line. And it doesn't really have to be anything fancy. If you have some old climbing line around it would work great and be free.



Thanks for the information. I was really liking the idea of not having as many knots tied.... I was going to terminate my climbing line to a locking rope snap on the D's and use a carabiner through the same D's to attach the single-eye to. Would this work ok like that? What is your setup like?


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## tree md (Apr 10, 2012)

I haven't climbed with an old school split tail and friction hitch for several years now. I climb on a VT and an 8mm eye to eye prussic these days.


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## Carburetorless (Apr 10, 2012)

RYNOMAGNUM said:


> Thanks for the information. I was really liking the idea of not having as many knots tied.... I was going to terminate my climbing line to a locking rope snap on the D's and use a carabiner through the same D's to attach the single-eye to. Would this work ok like that? What is your setup like?



You can get a split tail with an eye already in it(in a larger diameter like 13mm), or you could splice your own from some other rope as Tree MD pointed out. I'm using 13mm Hi-Vee on 11.5mm Lava(Tachyon) and it works great.

Something else you may not know, if you add friction to your climbing line, whether via device, or just by running it under your leg, you'll reduce the amount of friction on your hitch making it run smoother, which might allow you to use the smaller cord for your hitch without it locking up.

Something that's freed up my hitch from locking is to add an extra rap to the hitch it's self.


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## tree md (Apr 10, 2012)

I climbed on this knot for many years; with and without a split tail:







I climbed with this system for awhile:






This is what I climb on now:


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## tree md (Apr 10, 2012)

Correction: The eye to eye that I climb on now is 10mm icetail.


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## RYNOMAGNUM (Apr 10, 2012)

Carburetorless said:


> You can get a split tail with an eye already in it(in a larger diameter like 13mm), or you could splice your own from some other rope as Tree MD pointed out. I'm using 13mm Hi-Vee on 11.5mm Lava(Tachyon) and it works great.
> 
> Something else you may not know, if you add friction to your climbing line, whether via device, or just by running it under your leg, you'll reduce the amount of friction on your hitch making it run smoother, which might allow you to use the smaller cord for your hitch without it locking up.
> 
> Something that's freed up my hitch from locking is to add an extra rap to the hitch it's self.



Thanks for the response . I am going to do some experimenting on my setup which is kinda scary. I will do it low of coarse until I find my system. I just want to use one for my day-job ropes( True Blue) , and relay it over to my own ropes. We solely use the True Blue at work .... so I was thinking I would use the same and use them for rigging when they got some age on them. I am breaking the mold a bit at my work!


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## tree md (Apr 10, 2012)

I climbed on true blue when I was first starting out. A plain old open prussic runs really well with that line. It works fine for light to medium rigging as well. I can't remember the tensil strength but I hung some pretty good sized limbs with it back in the day.


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## RYNOMAGNUM (Apr 10, 2012)

tree md said:


> I climbed on this knot for many years; with and without a split tail:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thank you so much for the pics. I am very interested in the various methods in which you have displayed. This is a whole different ballgame than what we use around here,but I like to learn new things! Thanks again! Nice website you have!


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## pdqdl (Apr 10, 2012)

tree md said:


> I haven't climbed with an old school split tail and friction hitch for several years now. I climb on a VT and an 8mm eye to eye prussic these days.



That's what I use, too. 

It just works so nicely, and you don't even need to re-tie it most of the time. Throw the whole setup in the rope bag and keep it ready for the next tree.


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## pdqdl (Apr 10, 2012)

tree md said:


> ...
> This is what I climb on now:



Just some petty quibbling on my part: That isn't quite a "VT". One leg is consistently wrapped around the other; that makes it a simple "Valdetain". A "VT" crosses over, then under. This supposedly keeps it from being too loose and letting you slide when you shouldn't.

I'm sure that it works pretty close to the same, though.


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## RYNOMAGNUM (Apr 10, 2012)

tree md said:


> I climbed on true blue when I was first starting out. A plain old open prussic runs really well with that line. It works fine for light to medium rigging as well. I can't remember the tensil strength but I hung some pretty good sized limbs with it back in the day.



I'm sorry if I ask to many questions,but what is the knot in the first pic you posted? the second pic is the single-eyed blakes , correct? 

I do light rigging and tags with the True Blue. It is some pretty versatile stuff. I break out the bull rope for Big chunks and such.... If in doubt,break it out... Right

Thanks again for taking the time to help out the "new climber". Your advice is SO much appreciated!


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## pdqdl (Apr 10, 2012)

That would be a 6 wrap prussic.

The traditional way of tying a prussic is with a circular loop of rope. It is then passed around the climbing line 3 times to make a friction hitch, then clipped with a carabiner to the climber. The original usage for this configuration was in rock climbing. This friction hitch (on a closed loop of rope) holds equally well, no matter whether the load is applied "up" or "down". In this case, he just used a short section of rope, and put a stopper knot on the "tail" to prevent it from untying itself.

This is really the same knot as a "taut-line" except that the two sides of the knot are wrapped in opposite directions around the climbing line. It holds just the same, regarless of which way the wraps are turned. If tied as a taut-line, you might know it as "three over and three under".


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## RYNOMAGNUM (Apr 10, 2012)

pdqdl said:


> That's what I use, too.
> 
> It just works so nicely, and you don't even need to re-tie it most of the time. Throw the whole setup in the rope bag and keep it ready for the next tree.



Would like to thank you also Pdqdl. This site is a wealth of knowledge! How can I contribute to such a great site? I'm in!!!:msp_thumbup:


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## pdqdl (Apr 10, 2012)

Learn more, hang out long enough to contribute as well. Lots of opportunities in Arborist 101 and homeowner helper forums. 

After a while, you get tired of answering the same old questions. Some guys either get bored with it, or they start picking fights with folks. _There is a lot of that going on..._


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## Carburetorless (Apr 10, 2012)

tree md said:


> I climbed on true blue when I was first starting out. A plain old open prussic runs really well with that line. It works fine for light to medium rigging as well. I can't remember the tensil strength but I hung some pretty good sized limbs with it back in the day.



6,600 lbs according to SherrillTree's climbing line chart.

It says it's 100% polyester, yet it has more elongation than my Tachyon which is polyester/nylon blend. I can't figure out how they get it to do that.


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## freeweight (Apr 10, 2012)

unless u are payed by the hour i didnt care for the advanced hitches ...just way to much equip. on saddle ...although they did perform well ,i just didnt really like having such a small hitch to grab 

i really like how the BLAZE tied to a 13mm performs these days

experiment low and slow man seriously find what u like and comfy with


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## pdqdl (Apr 10, 2012)

I would guess that they put a steeper angle on the spiral weave, but I don't really know. When it pulls tight, it still has a good deal of straightening to do.

I'm sure there are different qualities to polyester, too. It might just be as simple as knowing where to buy your polyester.


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## Carburetorless (Apr 10, 2012)

pdqdl said:


> I would guess that they put a steeper angle on the spiral weave, but I don't really know. When it pulls tight, it still has a good deal of straightening to do.
> 
> I'm sure there are different qualities to polyester, too. It might just be as simple as knowing where to buy your polyester.



I'm thinking it must have something to do with the weave, but still not 100% sure. I'll keep diggin til I find the answer.


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## Carburetorless (Apr 10, 2012)

Something I forgot to mention about split tails. 

Although I like the ease of having a spliced eye on it, I always tie into my biner with a fisherman's. The reason being that the fisherman's cinches tight onto the biner keeping it pointing up when being loaded, which helps prevent side loading.


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## RYNOMAGNUM (Apr 10, 2012)

Carburetorless said:


> Something I forgot to mention about split tails.
> 
> Although I like the ease of having a spliced eye on it, I always tie into my biner with a fisherman's. The reason being that the fisherman's cinches tight onto the biner keeping it pointing up when being loaded, which helps prevent side loading.



Nice bit of info. Thanks


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## Youngbuck20 (Apr 11, 2012)

is the 5 coil prussik better than the 4 coil? i tied a 4 coil while trying to tie a taughtline and let me tell you, it doesnt grab. not in that situation anyways. so always check check and double check your knots.


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## tree md (Apr 11, 2012)

I climbed on 4 coils when I weighed 165#. That was many moons ago. 5 coils worked well for me when I filled out and got bigger.


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## tree md (Apr 11, 2012)

And as has been mentioned, you can use 4 coiles with the Blake's or tautline, but the open prussic always ran better for me.


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## fishercat (Apr 12, 2012)

*I'm Good. Been busy.*



RYNOMAGNUM said:


> Glad to hear I'm headed in the right direction as far as the Bee Line! How you been Fishercat? What hitch are you using? I'm about ready to gear up for myself and its a lot of decisions with all the stuff that's available on the market.....



I just use a blakes hitch on a split tail on 1/2" Arbormaster with a 1/2" split tail. I tried the VT and all those fancy set ups and I didn't like them. I think it was because of my weight. They either slipped or locked up on me. I got tired of fighting with them and went back to what worked for me. I want to try the XT hitch one day when I find the tread again. Call me if you need any pointers or help.


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## RYNOMAGNUM (Apr 18, 2012)

fishercat said:


> I just use a blakes hitch on a split tail on 1/2" Arbormaster with a 1/2" split tail. I tried the VT and all those fancy set ups and I didn't like them. I think it was because of my weight. They either slipped or locked up on me. I got tired of fighting with them and went back to what worked for me. I want to try the XT hitch one day when I find the tread again. Call me if you need any pointers or help.



Thanks Fishercat. Im glad to hear youve been busy. 


I just got my new gear.Pinnacle saddle and all the fix'ns! Im going to run the split-tail blakes with a piece of blue tied for my bridge. Simple.... Running the running end thru a beener on my outer D made it run better for me and get the line off my feet all at the same time. Im learning to get the flow of things up there...always learning...


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## fishercat (Apr 19, 2012)

*Well good luck!*



RYNOMAGNUM said:


> Thanks Fishercat. Im glad to hear youve been busy.
> 
> 
> I just got my new gear.Pinnacle saddle and all the fix'ns! Im going to run the split-tail blakes with a piece of blue tied for my bridge. Simple.... Running the running end thru a beener on my outer D made it run better for me and get the line off my feet all at the same time. Im learning to get the flow of things up there...always learning...




It was slow this week but I got slammed today. Worked for two different outfits today. Mechanic work til Monday.

Take your time. A rush is not worth it in this business.


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