# Salt Cedars with sand embedded in the bark = dull saw.



## davidwyby (Dec 7, 2009)

Driving me nuts. These trees have sand embedded in the bark beacuse they grow in the desert so the wind blows it in the deep grooves in the bark and it rarely rains to wash it off. Don't get very far before needing a sharpening. Any suggestions besides debarking every cut with an axe/adz? Are there higher quality/harder chains available? 

Thanks 

Here's a pic that shows how deeply grooved the bark is.


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## southsoundtree (Dec 7, 2009)

I didn't have problems with dulling of the chain with salt cedar. Are those Athyl Tamarisk tamarix aphylla?

Chain stretch was our big problems. 

Are you doing anything to prevent stump sprouting, chemically?

You can frill the tree with a hatchet, hacking through the cambium over several inches to kill it, yet provide some temporary habitat. You have to get the cambium all the way around it. 


Are you just killing them because they are invasive?


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## davidwyby (Dec 7, 2009)

I couldn't tell you for sure the species. In the Tamarix family. Great for shade but invasive, water-hoggers with weak limbs that like to fall on things you don't want them falling on, which is the reason for the current project. 

To eradicate them in the past I've backhoed them out completely to make way for replacement trees. Current job is trimming from around a dwelling, not removal. 

I found this while researching them. Pretty cool pic. 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/lakemeadnra/2893847958/ 

This'll make ya hate 'em. 

http://www.nps.gov/archive/whsa/tamarisk.htm

BTW, I grew up on Whidbey, used to spend a lot of time at Lake Cushman. I miss it.


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## dingeryote (Dec 7, 2009)

David,

That's some deep bark. 

We get similar issues with sand getting into the bark around here. Plenty of rain though LOL!!

Generally, running good Semi-chisel chain like Stihl RM or Bailys/Carlton holds up a LOT better than full chisel.

Oregon has a chain they are calling "Multi-cut" that shows some promise.
It's full chisel, but thicker chromed, and dosn't cut as fast as normal full chisel. It's expensive though.

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=112879&highlight=multicut

Keep murdering those invasives!!!!!


Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## davidwyby (Dec 7, 2009)

Thanks dingeryote. I'll explore chain possibilities. Been a long time since I had the saws out, need to brush up. Never did get around to doing any muffler mods either...


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## southsoundtree (Dec 7, 2009)

I worked on salt cedar in a lot of southern Nevada. Interesting that they are burning it, as it comes back quickly. Cheat grass is a constant problem in that area, and a fire vector.

We'd have new looking teeth on chains that stretched so far that they'd be dangling off the bar when the tensioner way all the way forward. 
Working with the National Park Service Exotic Plant Management Team EPMT, we'd know it was time to change chains once they were thrown after dangling with the tensioner all the way out. They'd take a link out and loop them back together. 

Surprising that they're so dulling. We were stump cutting, but I guess it was more whippy stuff. We frilled the Athel tamarisk---salt cedar on steriods, growing to look like small oaks, up to 60' tall max.

I remember people having them for their shade trees.


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## davidwyby (Dec 7, 2009)

Yeah, these are the Athels I think. Biguns.

Interesting, the limbs seem weak, I can just rip off limbs up to about 12" with my pickup ( 4x4 Cummins dodge) but I had a trunk about 24" dia notched out and back cut down to about a 4" wide strip before the truck would pull it down. Had to go back and back cut 3 times before she came.


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## Saw Bones (Dec 7, 2009)

Carbide tipped cutters? Expensive but might hold up better.


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## davidwyby (Dec 7, 2009)

Yeah, I looked at the carbide. I think I have full chisel now, gonna try some semi first. Honestly, I should have done some searching and brushed up on the subject before I posted. I looked and the last time I was active here was 2005 which was my last project, so I'm rusty.


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## southsoundtree (Dec 8, 2009)

David B said:


> Yeah, I looked at the carbide. I think I have full chisel now, gonna try some semi first. Honestly, I should have done some searching and brushed up on the subject before I posted. I looked and the last time I was active here was 2005 which was my last project, so I'm rusty.



I think that semi should help. Seems like sharpening two-three strokes frequently might help. The bar and chain will stay cooler from less running time, which should help the cutters keep their edge better, and it will be easier to file barely dull teeth, than really dull teeth.

From what I've heard about carbide, the cutting speed is significantly slower than regular chains, but then again, how fast does a dull chain cut?


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## davidwyby (Dec 8, 2009)

Yeah, I think keeping a file handy will be the best way to do it.


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## BlueRidgeMark (Dec 8, 2009)

David B said:


> Yeah, I looked at the carbide. I think I have full chisel now, gonna try some semi first. Honestly, I should have done some searching and brushed up on the subject before I posted. I looked and the last time I was active here was 2005 which was my last project, so I'm rusty.



Salt cedars, eh? So that's what they're called. I think that's what they have up Palm Springs way, north of you. They are in long rows, look like they were planted for windbreaks. They eat radio waves. Used to drive me nuts when I was engineering radio stuff in that are.



You might want to take a look at Bailey's carbide impregnated chain. Not as expensive as full carbide chains.

http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=CB100+375&catID=


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## davidwyby (Dec 8, 2009)

You got it. That's what they call them around here.


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## cgraham (Nov 13, 2010)

David, please refer to the following parallel thread on cutting salt cedar I initiated  :

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=153963

We are now discussing carbide-impregnated chains too. I'm looking for info on the number of sharpenings these chains will take before they lose their impregnated layer.

Charlie


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## SpiralAcacia (Mar 23, 2012)

David B said:


> Driving me nuts. These trees have sand embedded in the bark beacuse they grow in the desert so the wind blows it in the deep grooves in the bark and it rarely rains to wash it off. Don't get very far before needing a sharpening. Any suggestions besides debarking every cut with an axe/adz? Are there higher quality/harder chains available?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Here's a pic that shows how deeply grooved the bark is.



I wonder, does anybody here burns this for firewood? s. Tamarix aphylla.

I qoute from Athel Tamarisk :
_"Athel tamarisk is sometimes found associated with the following species:
screwbean mesquite (Prosopis pubescens), big saltbrush (Atriplex
lentiformis), arrow-weed (Pluchea sericea), western honey mesquite
(Prosopis glandulosa torreyana), desert saltbrush (Atriplex polycarpa),
pickleweed (Allenrolfea occidentalis), and saltgrass (Distichlis
spicata)"_

Here it is synonym for crappiest firewood, dries slow, doesn't like to burn but smolder unhappily, lots of ash and stinks.
Even the beduin won't touch it. I mean road builders were taking down tons of it around here and they just sat there (Both Tamarix and beduins that is).
But then I find quite a few pieces on the web about it being firewood crop in India and Africa.
:msp_confused:

SA


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## formationrx (Mar 24, 2012)

*...*

bones is right go with a carbide chain.... you ll have to sharpen it with a green wheel...


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## cgraham (Mar 25, 2012)

SpiralAcacia said:


> I wonder, does anybody here burns this for firewood? s. Tamarix aphylla.
> 
> Here it is synonym for crappiest firewood, dries slow, doesn't like to burn but smolder unhappily, lots of ash and stinks.
> Even the beduin won't touch it. I mean road builders were taking down tons of it around here and they just sat there (Both Tamarix and beduins that is).
> ...



I'm surprised you find it poor firewood! The species of salt cedar that invades creek bottoms in the desert Southwest US (I don't know the species), makes EXCELLENT firewood, providing it is dried out, or is sufficiently thick, that is. It has an extremely dense reddish heartwood which burns well even from recently felled wood in the winter when the sap is down. 

I usually let it season for a couple of years, or harvest dry limbs, the thicker the better, from the creek bottom that have been left high and dry by flash floods. Smaller diameters burn HOT in my airtight stove. I can keep a fire in all night with a big chunk of it: it just smoulders with the air choked back, and keeps the house pleasantly warm.

Since I referenced another thread a while back on the difficulties of cutting it, I discovered my old saw was worn out, and bought a new Husky: just using ordinary chipper chain, I have since had no difficulty cutting thick, well-seasoned limbs. (Sure if I was cutting all day, it would be another story) Ah, the joy of a new saw!

Charlie


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## davidwyby (Dec 18, 2020)

From Weed to Wood: Producing Finished Products with Saltcedar Logs | D. Paul Brown (highlandwoodworking.com)


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## davidwyby (Dec 18, 2020)

Perhaps pressure washing...


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## davidwyby (Dec 18, 2020)

My friend whose trees I was trimming heated with the stuff for years because it was there. I forget what the trick was.


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## TheTreeSpyder (Dec 19, 2020)

For some sand in bark i would peel bark with axe in cut sometimes, rinse with hose but always seems to be some that persists.
.
Sand is tough, uncrushable, look for like 18 cutting surfaces per grain.
Saw provides power to sand about 68mph/600 teeth per second, to essentially sandblast sharp knives of chain to be like trying to cut with back of spoon.
Not going to win coming straight at it w/o just going thru normal chains, if can tell where might be clean might try those cuts first etc.
Carbide like on stump grinder teeth does tolerate sand, but eventually gives in, even those teeth get sharpened.


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## MitchBarron68 (Dec 26, 2020)

David B said:


> Perhaps pressure washing...


I agree on this


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