# Vermont Iron Stove works "The Elm"



## Spotted Owl (Oct 1, 2009)

What can anyone tell me about this stove, good/bad or other wise? This one is noncat, 24" log, needs just a couple parts and some TLC. Got this as a project for the boy and me for a few weekends this winter. Right now he thinks refurbing stoves is a fun thing to do.

This is the only thing I can find so far. http://www.vermontironstove.com/about.html

Thanks for anything you may have about this stove.



Owl


----------



## Snowchief (Oct 1, 2009)

What a nifty looking stove!


----------



## stihl sawing (Oct 1, 2009)

That thing is sweet, I just bought a new dutchwest by Vermont. Do they still make that one. It's a nice looking stove.


----------



## WetBehindtheEar (Oct 1, 2009)

Either way, it's a really neat looking peice of hardware. Good luck and get us some PHOTOS!


----------



## stihl sawing (Oct 1, 2009)

WetBehindtheEar said:


> Either way, it's a really neat looking peice of hardware. Good luck and get us some PHOTOS!


:agree2::agree2:


----------



## Spotted Owl (Oct 1, 2009)

stihl sawing said:


> That thing is sweet, I just bought a new dutchwest by Vermont. Do they still make that one. It's a nice looking stove.



I don't think they are still made. On the link though you can contact them, they refurb and resell them. The guy was the ceo or something and likes the stove and wants to keep them alive. He has aquired the castings to make or have new parts made.

When everything is all said and done I will have my boy put up photos of before and after. He is way on the other side of the digital divide and I'm just getting into the foothills.



Owl


----------



## coog (Nov 5, 2009)

I saw this and recalled this thread.I like it.

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ank/for/1424968067.html


----------



## Dalmatian90 (Nov 5, 2009)

That is a truly beautiful looking stove!


----------



## ray benson (Nov 5, 2009)

Cool stove. Did you see an owners manual and IPL are available to download?
http://www.vermontironstove.com/pdf_docs.html


----------



## PA. Woodsman (Nov 5, 2009)

There's something about that stove that has always intrigued me. It uses a Pyrex pie plate for the glass on the door if I remember correctly...


----------



## demographic (Nov 5, 2009)

PA. Woodsman said:


> There's something about that stove that has always intrigued me. It uses a Pyrex pie plate for the glass on the door if I remember correctly...



I've seen a stove on sale over here with what looked like a Pyrex dish set into the door, I always wondered how well that worked.


----------



## Spotted Owl (Nov 5, 2009)

coog said:


> I saw this and recalled this thread.I like it.
> 
> http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ank/for/1424968067.html



That is the stove that we have. I don't tink though at this time we will be putting on the shelves.

We do have the manuals printed out and the parts break down.

It has a ceramic flat glass and a pyrex pie dish for the viewing window.

Right now we have ours torn down to parts on the floor. We will be ordering a few parts from the site. We need to get things scrubbed and cleaned up. Then we will paint and reassemble. It may go on hold for a bit though. Not much time thru the week and now we are into football playoffs on the Saurdays. After football we have a weekend falling job that will take some time also.

We hope it will look as good as the one coog put up in the CL link.

Been getting a few photos as we go also. Before to long we will have a before, during and after thread when every thing is completed.

It is a neat stove.


Owl


----------



## coog (Nov 5, 2009)

It is a nice stove in great condition, but I don't know that I'd spend a grand on a 31 year old, non EPA stove.I see antique stoves all the time that I'd love to have, but I think I'll stay with the Jotuls.I do plan to hook up Grandma's old cook stove someday.


----------



## Nonprophet (Nov 6, 2009)

Hi Owl,

I just picked up one of those myself down in S. Oregon. I first heard of them about two years ago, and I've been keeping my eye out for one locally as I wouldn't want to have to pay to ship one! 

Ours is a 1985 model, 24", non-cat. Bought it from the original owner. They are older and hadn't used it in years. They were told that they couldn't legally sell it because it's not certified, and so sadly they were going to sell it for scrap! We saw it at their yard sale Sunday, it was going to be picked up on Wednesday by the scrap yard, so we got it just in time!

I've spoken with the guy in Vermont (really nice guy!), and I'll be ordering a set of the 14" legs, a gasket kit, and a set of the 24" tie rods. I'm also going to order one of his secondary burn tubes, and then install it myself. I might also order a set of the warming shelves later, but we'll see.

I think these are great stoves, and I'm looking forward to getting ours cleaned up and burning!


NP


----------



## coog (Nov 6, 2009)

I think I'll call these people and tell them that they can't "legally" sell their stove so I'll be by with my scrap wagon.You know, give them a chance to do the right thing.What a country we've become.


----------



## wkpoor (Nov 6, 2009)

Man is that a neat stove. I like the looks of. Think I'll keep an eye out for one myself. Might even call to see what he charges for the rebuilt ones. 30yr old doesn't bother me. Thats what heats my house now is a 30yr old Nashua.


----------



## Islander (Nov 6, 2009)

My neighbor has one, and actually it was passed on from another neighbor. 

It is a nice looking stove, but technically nothing special.

They use it to heat a garage now. Great beer drinking stove. 

We had a New Year's Barbecue this year. We were laughing that it was "Extreme Barbecue"...we were grilling steaks at about 10 below and must have been a 40 MPH wind. My Vermont Castings grill delivered the goods...and the stove kept us toasty (I can't list the other toasty items...). 

My other neighbor had it first in their living room. Heated a whole small house quite well. I remember times where it must have been 80 in there. After that, it was in their garage too. I guess that's where it started the beer drinking reputation.

I think it went from living room to garage based on wood consumption. They burned a good 4-5 cord a year in it for supplemental heat. No secondary burn, and not a high tech design....a descendant from a barrel stove.

But it works great for beer drinking, and at least you can say you have a friend in Vermont that uses one for toast!!


----------



## fishercat (Nov 6, 2009)

*they are great stoves.*

a little uncommon and pricey when one comes up for sale.i prefer the non EPA stoves.they were simple and worked.


----------



## Spotted Owl (Nov 6, 2009)

If you are looking they're out there. Patients will be your friend. The one we got was $100. Hard to beat for a winter project. Figure we might be into it for around $250 all a round. It's a 24" 1980 non cat non anything rated.

Make no mistake this is a barrel stove. Only the ends are cast and pressure fitted with tie rod squeeze bolts.

Today we took the grinder wire cup to it and cleaned the surface rust and scale.

Wait for a few parts and then paint and it will be done. So far so good and good times with my boy. Memories made can't beat that and don't wanna try. Many a sodas will be downed around this after we are done.



Owl


----------



## coog (Nov 6, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> .......EPA stoves are simple and work better!



You are both right. I'm sure a lot of you heard today's news reports about the effects of car exhaust and woodsmoke on children.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/11/091106084243.htm

I don't believe any "scientific" report I hear on NPR, but I know where this will lead.It's nice to look at my chimney when my Jotul is burning all out and seeing no smoke.It is plenty hot inside, but it takes more work than some of the old stoves I've had.Believe me, it's a religion for these people.They will call you a child abuser if you use an old stove.


----------



## fishercat (Nov 7, 2009)

*congrats.*



TreeCo said:


> .......EPA stoves are simple and work better!



i own both and strongly disagree.


----------



## fishercat (Nov 7, 2009)

*funny,i grew up around old stoves.*



coog said:


> You are both right. I'm sure a lot of you heard today's news reports about the effects of car exhaust and woodsmoke on children.
> 
> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/11/091106084243.htm
> 
> I don't believe any "scientific" report I hear on NPR, but I know where this will lead.It's nice to look at my chimney when my Jotul is burning all out and seeing no smoke.It is plenty hot inside, but it takes more work than some of the old stoves I've had.Believe me, it's a religion for these people.They will call you a child abuser if you use an old stove.



i don't have all the ailments that kids now seem to have with this new cleaner environment hogwash.


----------



## Longshot (Nov 7, 2009)

We've been slow-roasting in front of an Elm for 32 years. Great stove! Replaced the baffle once in that time, and just this summer broke the ole' boy down and replaced all the gaskets and the back casting [ a split developed, either as a result of a casting weakness, or it was caused by a log striking the back when thrown in]. Either way, the stove owes me nothing at this point, yet it continues to deliver. 
It was encouraging to find that Steve Slatter [ original co-owner/designer] still has the molds and is able to get parts cast. He proved to be a very cooperative gentleman and the instructional videos on the website were unquestionably helpful.


----------



## demographic (Nov 7, 2009)

Is the centre section of these stoves (the basic cylinder shape) cast as well as the ends and what kind of diameter and thickness is it?


----------



## Spotted Owl (Nov 7, 2009)

demographic said:


> Is the centre section of these stoves (the basic cylinder shape) cast as well as the ends and what kind of diameter and thickness is it?




The center is a steel barrel 3/16 thick. It is the only weld on the stove for ours, to bring the rolled barrel together. Ours is the 24" log noncat and the barrel is 19&3/16" O.D.


Owl


----------



## Nonprophet (Nov 7, 2009)

Spotted Owl said:


> The center is a steel barrel 3/16 thick. It is the only weld on the stove for ours, to bring the rolled barrel together. Ours is the 24" log noncat and the barrel is 19&3/16" O.D.
> 
> 
> Owl



Yeah, it's interesting to note that there's never been a single report of the barrel of an Elm stove failing. That's one of the things I like about these stoves so much, they're built really, really well and they're very simple. A complete tear-down and rebuild would take all of a few hours in terms of air-tightness, as opposed to most cast iron stoves (especially Vermont Castings) where they use stove cement instead of gaskets to seal the various panels/castings together. Lots of rusted bolts and complicated internal workings (air control cables/chains), not so with the Elm stove--end gasket, front gasket, door gasket, four tie-rods. Doesn't get much more simple than that. And of course "rebuilding" a steel stove is usually cost and time prohibitive.

Add to that the fact that more than a fair number of people in this and other wood burning forums are having problems with cracked welds on their square steel stoves. Most of the stove manufacturers seem to be stepping up to the plate the fix these faulty welds under warranty, but it's still a huge hassle--call the dealer, dealer calls the manufacturer, pull the stove, take it in for repairs, re-install it..........all in all something I don't want to have to mess with. And, most stove warranties are only good for 5 years..........

I think the barrel design has a couple of big benefits over square stoves:

1. Only 1 weld and never a failure. No stress points around doors, flue collars, blower mounts, etc.
2. The north-south loading of the logs (a cigarette burn if you will) ensures longer burns.
3. As the fire burns down, loaded logs will naturally roll onto the fire/coals.

In terms of efficiency, it's worth noting that the Elm stoves did come in a catalytic stove and they were reputed to be 72% efficient which is right up there with today's EPA stoves. Lastly, people are retro-fitting the non-cat Elms with secondary burn tubes (I'm going to do that to ours....) thus greatly increasing efficiency.

I know you can go down to Lowes and buy a new Englander EPA steel wood stove for about $900 (and they're great heaters) but they're about as plain-looking as they come and while there are numerous 30 year old Elm stoves still burning, I doubt that an Englander (or any other budget stove) would last nearly that long and they're nearly impossible to rebuild once key parts start to fail......


NP


----------



## demographic (Nov 7, 2009)

Spotted Owl said:


> The center is a steel barrel 3/16 thick. It is the only weld on the stove for ours, to bring the rolled barrel together. Ours is the 24" log noncat and the barrel is 19&3/16" O.D.
> 
> 
> Owl



Thanks for the info, I was being wildly optimistic and hoping that that section was made from cut down propane cylinders which over here are 320mm in diameter (without looking at a tape measure I guess that's about 13") and the bigger ones are about 360mm which (again without looking at a tape and I'm guessing here is about 15"?).

Seems I was wrong, never mind, at least I know and cheers.
Scott.


----------



## fishercat (Nov 7, 2009)

*there are several things i do not like.*



TreeCo said:


> Then you're doing it wrong!
> 
> Please explain what kinds of problems you are having with an EPA stove and maybe we can walk you through it.
> 
> ...



not saying i am having trouble with it.

for one,they seem to have smaller fireboxes.due to all the EPA crap.second,it seems to take a lot longer to heat up.

the wood is dry.i can have a fire going in the house and one in the garage.the old Fisher seems to smoke a lot less.,heats up faster,keeps a fire longer.


----------



## fishercat (Nov 8, 2009)

*fisher burns longer.plain and simple.*



TreeCo said:


> Small fire boxes and higher efficiency.
> 
> What EPA crap is in your EPA stove? It sounds like a stove that ought to be avoided.
> 
> ...



not sure what model it is to be honest.i have talked to a few folks and they seem to have several models.i assume i have the Momma bear based on what little info i can find.it's a double door model.i can get the measurements or a picture if you like.


----------



## Spotted Owl (Nov 8, 2009)

fishercat said:


> not sure what model it is to be honest.i have talked to a few folks and they seem to have several models.i assume i have the Momma bear based on what little info i can find.it's a double door model.i can get the measurements or a picture if you like.




Here are some dimensions. All are about 29" - 30" H so I will leave that one out.

Poppa Bear: 39"d by 20"w single door

Momma Bear: 34"d by 18"w single door

Gramma Bear: 28"d by 25"w double door

Grampa Bear: 30"d by 29"w double door


That should help you to figure which stove you have. Never ever give that thing up.

We have a grampa Bear in the shop that I wish we could legally and ins company wise move to the living area of the house. It is the best stove we have ever had or used. Better than any EPA destroyed stove that we have been forced to install. BTW the original Poppa Bear is still heating and still in great shape the only thing to be done has been brick change outs. I run into Bob Fisher from time to time(it's been a while now) he and my inlaws are neighbors. His kids and my wife were in school together. These in in my not so humble opinion are quite possibly the best wood heaters around. If we are ever given the free choice to choose our stove, three Bears will be moved in over night and lose all the EPA crap that we have forced down our necks. I can get all night burns in ours and when we do come back to a cold stove there isn't even any ash left.


Owl


----------



## fishercat (Nov 9, 2009)

*don't worry,i will be buried in it.*



Spotted Owl said:


> Here are some dimensions. All are about 29" - 30" H so I will leave that one out.
> 
> Poppa Bear: 39"d by 20"w single door
> 
> ...



i agree.they are the best stoves ever made.followed closely by the Allnighters. thanks for the measurements.i will let you know which one i have.i sold a baby bear like an idiot but i got crazy money for it.


----------

