# The MS461.........A Peek Inside



## Mastermind (Oct 6, 2012)




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## Mastermind (Oct 6, 2012)




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## Mastermind (Oct 6, 2012)

Let us discuss...... :cool2:


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## CR500 (Oct 6, 2012)

The most anticipated thread of the week!!! is now here!!:msp_thumbsup::cool2:


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## blsnelling (Oct 6, 2012)

What in the world is that piece bolted on the intake side of the case, under the cylinder?:msp_confused:


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## Mastermind (Oct 6, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> What in the world is that piece bolted on the intake side of the case, under the cylinder?:msp_confused:



I have an idea what it's purpose is......


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## hotshot (Oct 6, 2012)

*Windage tray*



blsnelling said:


> What in the world is that piece bolted on the intake side of the case, under the cylinder?:msp_confused:



It's a windage tray, never seen it a saw though..


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## blsnelling (Oct 6, 2012)

Mastermind © said:


> I have an idea what it's purpose is......



Incredible. A stuffer that goes up inside the bottom of the piston? I'm guessing that's to make up for the volume added by the area opened up under the transfer intake. And transfers that feed from under the exhaust port? Seems that would heat the incoming charge. Very interesting design for sure. Definately won't be bolting these topends on a 460!


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## WV wood chopper (Oct 6, 2012)

Stunning for sure!!


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## Stihlman441 (Oct 6, 2012)

opcorn:

Thanks for the pics.


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## axlr8 (Oct 6, 2012)

I dont like the looks of that 'piece..' It seems like a wall restricting flow, but that may be my opinion... man would that stink if that came loose! bolts and a punched hole through the piston!


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## DSS (Oct 6, 2012)

flippy caps...:msp_cursing:


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## RAMROD48 (Oct 6, 2012)

Has anyone seen my loctite?


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## SawTroll (Oct 6, 2012)

Mastermind © said:


> .....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's an odd shape on the transfer intake, wonder if it really is meant to be shaped like that???? :msp_confused:


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## zogger (Oct 6, 2012)

That's interesting. My first thought as well, some sort of crankcase stuffer??

What are those horizontal marks in the cylinder, or is that just weird light reflection?


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## fastLeo151 (Oct 6, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Incredible. A stuffer that goes up inside the bottom of the piston? I'm guessing that's to make up for the volume added by the area opened up under the transfer intake. And transfers that feed from under the exhaust port? Seems that would heat the incoming charge. Very interesting design for sure. Definately won't be bolting these topends on a 460!




I'm thinking its less about case volume and more about gas mixture and flow direction and flow speed. I would like to see the relationship between that piece and the intake.


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## Mastermind (Oct 6, 2012)

SawTroll said:


> That's an odd shape on the transfer intake, wonder if it really is meant to be shaped like that???? :msp_confused:



I wondered about that as well Niko.



zogger said:


> That's interesting. My first thought as well, some sort of crankcase stuffer??
> 
> What are those horizontal marks in the cylinder, or is that just weird light reflection?



Weird light.......everything is weird in our shop ya know. 



fastLeo151 said:


> I'm thinking its less about case volume and more about gas mixture and flow direction and flow speed. I would like to see the relationship between that piece and the intake.



Interesting......


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## parrisw (Oct 6, 2012)

I don't see anything special. But curious as to how this plays out.


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## Mastermind (Oct 6, 2012)

parrisw said:


> I don't see anything special. But curious as to how this plays out.



Plays??????

This internet chainsaw stuff is dead serious. :msp_mellow:


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## parrisw (Oct 6, 2012)

Mastermind © said:


> Plays??????
> 
> This internet chainsaw stuff is dead serious. :msp_mellow:



LOL, its just a saying. But ya, I play with saws, its not a full time gig for me.


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## deye223 (Oct 6, 2012)

axlr8 said:


> man would that stink if that came loose! bolts and a punched hole through the piston!



that won't happen there not husky bolts lol



blsnelling said:


> Definately won't be bolting these topends on a 460!



bummer :bad_smelly:


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## deye223 (Oct 6, 2012)

hmmmm just noticed pic no 6 dirty saw wheres the befor vid :msp_sneaky:


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## zogger (Oct 6, 2012)

Ok..another 99% clueless guess..see if me reading you smart guys stuff is paying off yet. that weird piece will give a sort of restriction/back pressure efect, but starting on the intake side. It is a strato-like variant, a charge delay mechanism, for less mixing in the exhaust?? 

After that I give up. This is fun though. Do you have the IPL for this saw? That will have an exact name I assume, which will be the biggest clue what the heck it is and for what.


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## Mastermind (Oct 6, 2012)

deye223 said:


> hmmmm just noticed pic no 6 dirty saw wheres the befor vid :msp_sneaky:



[video=youtube;kGcMaDQUnms]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGcMaDQUnms&list=UUg2yelCeKwB12xIohZfmf1g&index=3&feature=plcp[/video]



zogger said:


> Ok..another 99% clueless guess..see if me reading you smart guys stuff is paying off yet. that weird piece will give a sort of restriction/back pressure efect, but starting on the intake side. It is a strato-like variant, a charge delay mechanism, for less mixing in the exhaust??
> 
> After that I give up. This is fun though. Do you have the IPL for this saw? That will have an exact name I assume, which will be the biggest clue what the heck it is and for what.





Head hurt yet????


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## fastLeo151 (Oct 6, 2012)

Randy,

We would all like to hear your thoughts........


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## Freakingstang (Oct 6, 2012)

SawTroll said:


> That's an odd shape on the transfer intake, wonder if it really is meant to be shaped like that???? :msp_confused:



interesting? Hardly... for space constraints they installed the lower transfers on the front and rear instead of what you are used to on the sides of huskys. you;ve never messed with two stroke bikes have you? That is very common in older bikes. Same therory as the 372, just instead of coming up the case to the sides then into the cylinder, it is just a longer transfer (from the looks). I betcha it is torquier than a 372 also... mearly a guess though as I haven't ran one, but the transfers do not look weird at all to me.


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## Mastermind (Oct 6, 2012)

fastLeo151 said:


> Randy,
> 
> We would all like to hear your thoughts........



Well the service manual calls it a "flange". 

I want to look it over closer, but I'm thinking it acts as a stuffer to force the air fuel mix out of that area and into the transfers...


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## RAMROD48 (Oct 6, 2012)

1128 021 8100 Flange List $4.85


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## Freakingstang (Oct 6, 2012)

Mastermind © said:


> Well the service manual calls it a "flange".
> 
> I want to look it over closer, but I'm thinking it acts as a stuffer to force the air fuel mix out of that area and into the transfers...



To keep the velocity up since the transfer ports are longer than "conventional" huskys? That is my guess


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## young (Oct 7, 2012)

SawTroll said:


> That's an odd shape on the transfer intake, wonder if it really is meant to be shaped like that???? :msp_confused:



matched to the crank case. so yes it meant to be shaped like that.


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## Mastermind (Oct 7, 2012)

young said:


> matched to the crank case. so yes it meant to be shaped like that.



It's not a good match Young. We will fix that though.


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## Philbert (Oct 7, 2012)

Subscribing so that I don't miss the 'after' photos!

Philbert

(P.S. - thanks for posting the inside look)


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## young (Oct 7, 2012)

Mastermind © said:


> It's not a good match Young. We will fix that though.



well, but you see why its shaped that way.


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## Mastermind (Oct 7, 2012)

Philbert said:


> Subscribing so that I don't miss the 'after' photos!
> 
> Philbert
> 
> (P.S. - thanks for posting the inside look)



I've got two MS441CRMs up next then a Solo 681 before I will be doing this saw. I just wanted to see what was inside myself.


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## Mastermind (Oct 7, 2012)

young said:


> well, but you see why its shaped that way.



Yes.......yes I do. :msp_thumbup:


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## young (Oct 7, 2012)

Mastermind © said:


> I've got two MS441CRMs up next then a Solo 681 before I will be doing this saw. I just wanted to see what was inside myself.



only took you 3 days hahahaha. thanks to randy and brian for making this happen. :msp_thumbup:


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## Mastermind (Oct 7, 2012)

young said:


> only took you 3 days hahahaha. thanks to randy and brian for making this happen. :msp_thumbup:



First time we've had a free spot on the benches.


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## young (Oct 7, 2012)

Mastermind © said:


> First time we've had a free spot on the benches.



thats good. means more $$$$$$$$$$.

btw stihl or mahle jug?

so far looks to be a good mid-model upgrade to keep the old school 046/460 fan base happy.


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## John R (Oct 7, 2012)

Mastermind © said:


> [video=youtube;kGcMaDQUnms]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGcMaDQUnms&list=UUg2yelCeKwB12xIohZfmf1g&index=3&feature=plcp[/video]
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 All Right, more thin firewood. :hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


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## Officer's Match (Oct 7, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> What in the world is that piece bolted on the intake side of the case, under the cylinder?:msp_confused:



Nah, you're all wrong. It's packaging material - supposed to be removed before running. :hmm3grin2orange:


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## Trx250r180 (Oct 7, 2012)

Thanks for posting pics of inside ,kind of a big surprise in there,are standard port timing numbers going to work on this model ?


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## dingeryote (Oct 7, 2012)

Nah!! You're all barking up the wrong tree.

That there widget is the antitheft/Lojak and EPA transceiver. I'ts gotta get switched on when a customer buys the saw or it wont run, and the NSA monitoring stations can locate the saw if it detects any tampering with settings that would alter emissions.

Quick wrap that thing in Tinfoil and send it to me, so I can properly dispose of it, before the black suburbans full of dudes in cheap black suits find you!!


Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## Rudolf73 (Oct 7, 2012)

Well now that is interesting... thanks for taking the time Randy :msp_thumbup:


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## wigglesworth (Oct 7, 2012)

dingeryote said:


> Nah!! You're all barking up the wrong tree.
> 
> That there widget is the antitheft/Lojak and EPA transceiver. I'ts gotta get switched on when a customer buys the saw or it wont run, and the NSA monitoring stations can locate the saw if it detects any tampering with settings that would alter emissions.
> 
> ...



Ahhh... Come on now dinger, u know that ain't no husky...



But in all seriousness.... What in the H-E-Double Hockey Sticks is goin on in that saw???


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## komatsuvarna (Oct 7, 2012)

I think it's more than likely a stuffer too....probably needed it due to the loooooong and narrooooow transfer ports . Stihl missed a good chance for some removable transfers covers here IMO.

Hard to tell exactly from the pictures, but it looks like the base of the cylinder would cover the ''flange'' bolts allowing them not to back out if they were ever to work loose.....which they probably wouldn't anyways. Them babys usually hold compared to Husky bolts!


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## chadihman (Oct 7, 2012)

SawTroll said:


> That's an odd shape on the transfer intake, wonder if it really is meant to be shaped like that???? :msp_confused:



I'm sure glad thats not my 461:msp_scared: I'm hearing a lot of hmmmm whats that and is that what that's supposed to look like from some of the best builders ever:msp_biggrin: With brains like you guys you can probably make it run awsome the first try


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## SawTroll (Oct 7, 2012)

young said:


> matched to the crank case. so yes it meant to be shaped like that.





Freakingstang said:


> interesting? Hardly... for space constraints they installed the lower transfers on the front and rear instead of what you are used to on the sides of huskys. you;ve never messed with two stroke bikes have you? That is very common in older bikes. Same therory as the 372, just instead of coming up the case to the sides then into the cylinder, it is just a longer transfer (from the looks). I betcha it is torquier than a 372 also... mearly a guess though as I haven't ran one, but the transfers do not look weird at all to me.



I was thinking of the inconsistent shape between the left and right side, not that they are up front.....


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## Mastermind (Oct 7, 2012)

Pass the pie....


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## 350jeepcj5 (Oct 7, 2012)

Mastermind © said:


> Pass the pie....


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## logging22 (Oct 7, 2012)

Skip the pie and and put some carbide in that saw already! We are watching you Randy.:msp_biggrin:


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## parrisw (Oct 7, 2012)

Mastermind © said:


> I've got two MS441CRMs up next then a Solo 681 before I will be doing this saw. I just wanted to see what was inside myself.



My first thought about that big hulk of metal inside the saw was that, some engineer had and "Afterthought".


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## Mastermind (Oct 7, 2012)

parrisw said:


> My first thought about that big hulk of metal inside the saw was that, some engineer had and "Afterthought".



Well Wiggs has convinced me to try it with and without. I think torque will suffer without it though....


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## komatsuvarna (Oct 7, 2012)

Mastermind © said:


> Well Wiggs has convinced me to try it with and without. I think torque will suffer without it though....



I agree Randy. I'd think it would make it peaky,,,,,,,but ya wont know for sure until ya try!:msp_thumbup:


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## wigglesworth (Oct 7, 2012)

Mastermind © said:


> Well Wiggs has convinced me to try it with and without. I think torque will suffer without it though....



It may very well drop off in torque, but u never know till u try...


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## Officer's Match (Oct 7, 2012)

wigglesworth said:


> It may very well drop off in torque, but u never know till u try...



Packaging material I tell ya'... mmm, pie.


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## Mastermind (Oct 7, 2012)

Officer's Match said:


> Packaging material I tell ya'... mmm, pie.



Pecan pie for me right now. Mmmmmmmmmm :msp_thumbup:


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## Officer's Match (Oct 7, 2012)

Mastermind © said:


> Pecan pie for me right now. Mmmmmmmmmm :msp_thumbup:



Pizza pie for me.


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## KenJax Tree (Oct 7, 2012)

I think the extra little doohicky serves as a foil hat to keep the left wing nut jobs away.


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## blsnelling (Oct 7, 2012)

Mastermind © said:


> Well Wiggs has convinced me to try it with and without. I think torque will suffer without it though....



I'm guessing that you'll lose RPMs too, as there'll be a drop in crankcase pressure, and therefore, velocity through the transfers. That's a mighty long transfer duct. Admittedly, I have no idea why they would do it that way.


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## wigglesworth (Oct 7, 2012)

KenJax Tree said:


> I think the extra little doohicky serves as a foil hat to keep the left wing nut jobs away.



Ya know, it just might be...

Could be the restrictor plate though...


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## Hddnis (Oct 7, 2012)

Should the doohicky get a mirror polish, bead blasted finish, or maybe even a serated edge? :hmm3grin2orange:




Mr. HE


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## Anthony_Va. (Oct 7, 2012)

I don't know if my 441 was in front of the 461 or not. If it is then you can put it behind the 461 as AFAIC. I won't be picking it up until the Wiggz GTG anyways. :msp_thumbup:


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## Metals406 (Oct 7, 2012)

opcorn:


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## parrisw (Oct 7, 2012)

I think you should drill some speed holes in it.


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## Mastermind (Oct 7, 2012)

parrisw said:


> I think you should drill some speed holes in it.



Warming up the ol drill press......:msp_thumbup:


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## madhatte (Oct 7, 2012)

I have a theory. It looks like the intake on the cylinder may be mostly blocked by the "flange" when the piston is up. There is space between the "flange" and the piston in the case. Could it be a diverter to keep the intake side charge and the transfer side charge separate? That would basically be almost like internal stratification. I think? This is an interesting design for sure. I would really like to hold that cylinder in my hands so I could really see what was up with it. I do doubt that removing the "flange" is a good idea. It might, however, benefit from reshaping. I'd almost bet on it. Almost.


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## Andyshine77 (Oct 7, 2012)

Randy thinks for the pics. I'm sure looking at the saw in person will give a guy a better idea of what's really going on, at least that's how my little mind works. 

So far it seem Stihl doesn't really know which way to go with their new saws, a bit all over the place IMHO.


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## Mastermind (Oct 7, 2012)

Andyshine77 said:


> Randy thinks for the pics. I'm sure looking at the saw in person will give a guy a better idea of what's really going on, at least that's how my little mind works.
> 
> *So far it seem Stihl doesn't really know which way to go with their new saws, a bit all over the place IMHO*.



I agree with that statement. 

I wonder if a lot of their thinking is in response to the lackluster sales of the 441C?


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## Andyshine77 (Oct 7, 2012)

Mastermind © said:


> I agree with that statement.
> 
> I wonder if a lot of their thinking is in response to the lackluster sales of the 441C?



Could be part of it, I was hoping the bigger saws would look a bit more like the 261.


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## Mastermind (Oct 7, 2012)

Andyshine77 said:


> Could be part of it, I was hoping the bigger saws would look a bit more like the 261.



I was hoping for this 461 to be built like a 441. But Stihl could give a damn less what we want.


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## russhd1997 (Oct 7, 2012)

opcorn:


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## TonyRumore (Oct 7, 2012)

madhatte said:


> I have a theory. I do doubt that removing the "flange" is a good idea. It might, however, benefit from reshaping.



If that flange isn't too expensive, a guy could get some spares and test a bunch of different profiles. (hint)

It's a bit difficult to reverse most porting, but in this case, you can taste and try, before you buy.

Tony


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## madhatte (Oct 7, 2012)

TonyRumore said:


> If that flange isn't too expensive, a guy could buy some spares and test a bunch of different profiles. (hint)



See, that's just the idea I never quite got around to having.


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## chadihman (Oct 7, 2012)

wigglesworth said:


> Ya know, it just might be...
> 
> Could be the restrictor plate though...



Yeah I guess Stihl just has to be slowed down to keep everyone else jelous free


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## dwraisor (Oct 7, 2012)

TonyRumore said:


> If that flange isn't too expensive, a guy could get some spares and test a bunch of different profiles. (hint)
> 
> It's a bit difficult to reverse most porting, but in this case, you can taste and try, before you buy.
> 
> Tony




Well at:



RAMROD48 said:


> 1128 021 8100 Flange List $4.85



it might not hurt to have a few "profiles" to try.


dw


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## naturelover (Oct 7, 2012)

Mastermind © said:


> I agree with that statement.
> 
> I wonder if a lot of their thinking is in response to the lackluster sales of the 441C?



Problem is, I wonder how many outside of this website would even know a 441 can (well....should) be ordered with M-Tronic?


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## Mastermind (Oct 7, 2012)

naturelover said:


> Problem is, I wonder how many outside of this website would even know a 441 can (well....should) be ordered with M-Tronic?



Fact.


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## Mike-B (Oct 7, 2012)

I like the idea of testing the options with The Flange. 

I guess I'd just like to know if it's inclusion is a genuine performance improvement or just a solution caused by other changes to meet the need for emission reductions...


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## Saw Dr. (Oct 7, 2012)

naturelover said:


> Problem is, I wonder how many outside of this website would even know a 441 can (well....should) be ordered with M-Tronic?



There is no longer an option. If you order a new 441, it will be m-tronic. The standard 441 is no longer available.

Via Samsung Galaxy S3


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## WV wood chopper (Oct 7, 2012)

MasterMind what, if any, difference in power, torque vs. a 460 have you noticed stock? Just curious as to the difference this has over the older version before you mod.


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## TonyRumore (Oct 7, 2012)

I have a hard time believing that flange is only five bucks from Stihl. That sounds like an error in the pricing data base.
I would buy a pile right now....they will eventually figure it out.


Tony


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## WV wood chopper (Oct 7, 2012)

Saw Dr. said:


> There is no longer an option. If you order a new 441, it will be m-tronic. The standard 441 is no longer available.
> 
> Via Samsung Galaxy S3



That must be why my dealer is trying to sell the several 441C's he has!


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## phelps63 (Oct 7, 2012)

naturelover said:


> Problem is, I wonder how many outside of this website would even know a 441 can (well....should) be ordered with M-Tronic?



I called at least a dozen dealers when I got mine the first of the year . None had them in stock and just as many even knew what I was talking about,


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## Mastermind (Oct 7, 2012)

Mike-B said:


> I like the idea of testing the options with The Flange.
> 
> I guess I'd just like to know if it's inclusion is a genuine performance improvement or just a solution caused by other changes to meet the need for emission reductions...



The Huskys with long, front feeding, transfer tunnels have crankshaft stuffers to reduce crankcase volume and make the stratos work as intended. This "flange" the Stihl has is a form of a stuffer. The transfers can't have multiple "pulses" in them and work effectively. This area that is taken up is a necessary ingredient in getting the exhaust to flow back into the transfers far enough to cause a stratifing effect in the combustion chamber. Removing it may be a good idea.......or not. We will see though. 



WV wood chopper said:


> MasterMind what, if any, difference in power, torque vs. a 460 have you noticed stock? Just curious as to the difference this has over the older version before you mod.



This saw seems stronger right outta the box than a new 460.


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## naturelover (Oct 7, 2012)

Saw Dr. said:


> There is no longer an option. If you order a new 441, it will be m-tronic. The standard 441 is no longer available.
> 
> Via Samsung Galaxy S3



True, but I hope Stihl doesn't go away from M-Tronic based on sales of the 441C-M. Sadly, any possible disappointment Stihl may have with sales would have nothing to do with how it great it runs or its durability, but more on the lack of people knowing about it, or being wary of new technology...

I know, around here, people will probably avoid the M-Tronic system, even if it means spending more on the 460-461, because of preconceptions they have with electronic gadgets....


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## madhatte (Oct 7, 2012)

Mastermind © said:


> The transfers can't have multiple "pulses" in them and work effectively.



If I understand correctly what's going on in there, what they really can't have is multiple _out-of-phase_ pulses in them -- additive vs subtractive interference at different RPMs would mean it could only run properly at one speed. It would be the same as having a tuned pipe inside of the cylinder, only more dramatic, as the mixture would effectively change as well. 

So: it's easiest to just have only one charge at a time, separated by the "Flange", rather than have to deal with constantly adjusting all of the moving parts to accommodate the changes that come with a 2-stroke engine's wide RPM band.


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## Mastermind (Oct 7, 2012)

madhatte said:


> If I understand correctly what's going on in there, what they really can't have is multiple _out-of-phase_ pulses in them -- additive vs subtractive interference at different RPMs would mean it could only run properly at one speed. It would be the same as having a tuned pipe inside of the cylinder, only more dramatic, as the mixture would effectively change as well.
> 
> So: it's easiest to just have only one charge at a time, separated by the "Flange", rather than have to deal with constantly adjusting all of the moving parts to accommodate the changes that come with a 2-stroke engine's wide RPM band.



The pulses will work in conjunction with the reciprocating action of the piston, so rpm shouldn't really be a factor. 

But, I'm doing a lot of guesswork at this point.


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## madhatte (Oct 7, 2012)

Mastermind © said:


> But, I'm doing a lot of guesswork at this point.



Likewise, but that's half the fun. It's gonna be cool to see what you come up with for this one!


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## mweba (Oct 7, 2012)

Mastermind © said:


> The Huskys with long, front feeding, transfer tunnels have crankshaft stuffers to reduce crankcase volume and make the stratos work as intended. This "flange" the Stihl has is a form of a stuffer. The transfers can't have multiple "pulses" in them and work effectively. This area that is taken up is a necessary ingredient in getting the exhaust to flow back into the transfers far enough to cause a stratifing effect in the combustion chamber. Removing it may be a good idea.......or not. We will see though.
> 
> 
> 
> This saw seems stronger right outta the box than a new 460.



Seems that Stihl and Dolmar are one a similar track with this design. Exhaust scavenge control may turn out to be a slick way around strato. It also looks to be an easy design to work around although it may take some unconventional tweeks to maximize output.

I'll second the notion its stronger out the box than a 460. The little time I played with it showed a wide forgiving power band. Taching showed it to be just a couple hundred r's under a ported 60 buried in the cut.


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## mweba (Oct 7, 2012)

Exhaust pins eh.

Got any more pickeez of that "stuffer"? What ever its purpose, the design was intentional and early.


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## deye223 (Oct 8, 2012)

hmmmm bump


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## dingeryote (Oct 8, 2012)

deye223 said:


> hmmmm bump



Nah, I would call it a "curious Protuberance".

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## SawTroll (Oct 8, 2012)

chadihman said:


> Yeah I guess Stihl just has to be slowed down to keep everyone else jelous free



No, as they passed that level a long time ago - it looks more like they are confused.......:msp_sneaky:


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## Trx250r180 (Oct 8, 2012)

im in no rush to get this back ,take time needed for r&d and input from the members here ,hope we can all learn from this build as this wont be the first one to be modded im sure


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## o8f150 (Oct 8, 2012)

ok,, enough with the bsing,, i want to see some after vids:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


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## Mastermind (Oct 8, 2012)

o8f150 said:


> ok,, enough with the bsing,, i want to see some after vids:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:



I'm wearing my shipping clerk hat right now. "I have a potty mouth". :msp_thumbup:


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## Scooterbum (Oct 8, 2012)

Mastermind © said:


> I'm wearing my shipping clerk hat right now. "I have a potty mouth". :msp_thumbup:



That ol' shipping hat get stuck or sumpin' ?opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:


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## thomas1 (Oct 8, 2012)

Mastermind © said:


> I'm wearing my shipping clerk hat right now. "I have a potty mouth". :msp_thumbup:



Hawt. 

Pics?


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## Mastermind (Oct 8, 2012)

Scooterbum said:


> That ol' shipping hat get stuck or sumpin' ?opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:



It'll be at least a week before I get to this saw Steve.


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## Mastermind (Oct 8, 2012)

thomas1 said:


> Hawt.
> 
> Pics?


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## thomas1 (Oct 9, 2012)

Mastermind © said:


>



Legs look right, but to much clothes and I don't see the hat. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that's not you.


----------



## Scooterbum (Oct 9, 2012)

Mastermind © said:


> It'll be at least a week before I get to this saw Steve.



After pulling that saw down and you have to wait a week before you can get to it? That would drive me nuts to say the least.
Glad to hear you have all that work buddy, I've hit my slow season for a bit.


----------



## Majorpayne (Oct 9, 2012)

Scooterbum said:


> After pulling that saw down and you have to wait a week before you can get to it? That would drive me nuts to say the least.
> Glad to hear you have all that work buddy, I've hit my slow season for a bit.



He is a big tease.


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 9, 2012)

Scooterbum said:


> After pulling that saw down and you have to wait a week before you can get to it? That would drive me nuts to say the least.
> Glad to hear you have all that work buddy, I've hit my slow season for a bit.



I had Jon pull it apart, photograph, and port map it. I figured we would all like to see what was inside. :msp_thumbsup:


----------



## Scooterbum (Oct 9, 2012)

You gonna pull that intake plug and see what effect it has?


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 9, 2012)

Scooterbum said:


> You gonna pull that intake plug and see what effect it has?



That's the plan bro. I really want to do some testing on it. :msp_thumbup:


----------



## HEAVY FUEL (Oct 9, 2012)

Mastermind © said:


> That's the plan bro. I really want to do some testing on it. :msp_thumbup:



When there's no paint left on the bar, testing is complete!!! ( He did say he wasnt in a hurry to get it back)


----------



## Trx250r180 (Oct 9, 2012)

wonder if the 661 going to be like this saw inside :confused2:


----------



## mweba (Oct 9, 2012)

trx250r180 said:


> wonder if the 661 going to be like this saw inside :confused2:



From a mechanics stand point, I sure hope so!! Besides how they run, Husky is really onto something with a "one design" set up. Makes things easier for us wrench pullers.


----------



## blsnelling (Oct 9, 2012)

trx250r180 said:


> wonder if the 661 going to be like this saw inside :confused2:



I doubt it. Every saw they build is different. Long gone are the days of 260, 360, 460, 660, 880.


----------



## deye223 (Oct 9, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I doubt it. Every saw they build is different. Long gone are the days of 260, 360, 460, 660, 880.



sad but true


----------



## Scooterbum (Oct 9, 2012)

Mastermind © said:


> I had Jon pull it apart, photograph, and port map it. I figured we would all like to see what was inside. :msp_thumbsup:



You do realize that's just cruel don't ya' ??


----------



## Trx250r180 (Oct 9, 2012)

any thoughts on how the mods are going to be done yet ?


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 9, 2012)

trx250r180 said:


> any thoughts on how the mods are going to be done yet ?



A carbide burr. :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Trx250r180 (Oct 9, 2012)

Mastermind © said:


> A carbide burr. :hmm3grin2orange:



hahahahahhah that was good


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 9, 2012)

trx250r180 said:


> hahahahahhah that was good



Yeah.......HSS dulls too fast. :msp_tongue:


----------



## Trx250r180 (Oct 9, 2012)

has anyone priced the jugs yet ? wonder if not too harsh on price be good to have some for r&d ?


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 9, 2012)

trx250r180 said:


> has anyone priced the jugs yet ? wonder if not too harsh on price be good to have some for r&d ?



I'll see what a top end is......if it in the system yet.


----------



## HEAVY FUEL (Oct 9, 2012)

Mastermind © said:


> I'll see what a top end is.....



:jawdrop:


----------



## bluestripes (Oct 9, 2012)

trx250r180 said:


> has anyone priced the jugs yet ? wonder if not too harsh on price be good to have some for r&d ?



$287 is list.


----------



## Trx250r180 (Oct 9, 2012)

bluestripes said:


> $287 is list.




i want a price from the guy with the $5 flanges :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Stihl Crazy (Oct 9, 2012)

RAMROD48 said:


> 1128 021 8100 Flange List $4.85



Flange sells for $3.99 up here.


----------



## bluestripes (Oct 9, 2012)

trx250r180 said:


> i want a price from the guy with the $5 flanges :hmm3grin2orange:



$4.74 is list here on that flange :msp_tongue:


----------



## Trx250r180 (Oct 9, 2012)

how much for da jugs ???????


----------



## parrisw (Oct 9, 2012)

trx250r180 said:


> how much for da jugs ???????



Depends if its on the good side of town or not.


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 9, 2012)

Bastards.....


----------



## Tzed250 (Oct 9, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I doubt it. Every saw they build is different. Long gone are the days of the 024, 034, 044, 064, 084.




Fixed it for ya....


----------



## tree monkey (Oct 10, 2012)

got it done yet?


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 10, 2012)

tree monkey said:


> got it done yet?



Nope. Doing two 441s right now. :msp_unsure:


----------



## young (Oct 23, 2012)

is this thing ready for the w.ky gtg?


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 23, 2012)

young said:


> is this thing ready for the w.ky gtg?



Yep.....


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 23, 2012)




----------



## young (Oct 23, 2012)

meh. :wink2:


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 23, 2012)

young said:


> meh. :wink2:



LOL.......

It's a bad dude.......you'll like it. 

It's still it testing mode at the moment. We are gonna run it with the bridge/flange/baffle/hicky installed until after the GTG, then pull it and see if it makes a huge difference.


----------



## young (Oct 23, 2012)

going to be line it to brads stock 461 before running any ported one 1st hehehehe


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 23, 2012)

young said:


> going to be line it to brads stock 461 before running any ported one 1st hehehehe



They are stronger than a 460 outta the box.....


----------



## CR500 (Oct 23, 2012)

Where is the video Randy???? I'm patiently awaiting a video that will maybe make me wanna sell the 441... lol


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 23, 2012)

CR500 said:


> Where is the video Randy???? I'm patiently awaiting a video that will maybe make me wanna sell the 441... lol



You'll have to come to the WKY GTG this weekend.






























Just kidding.........video tomorrow. It was dark when I buttoned it back up.


----------



## young (Oct 24, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> You'll have to come to the WKY GTG this weekend.
> 
> Just kidding.........video tomorrow. It was dark when I buttoned it back up.



no i say you should make everybody wait until after the gtg.


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 24, 2012)

young said:


> no i say you should make everybody wait until after the gtg.



I like the cut of your jib Sir.


----------



## parrisw (Oct 24, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> They are stronger than a 460 outta the box.....



Is that an accomplishment?


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 24, 2012)

parrisw said:


> Is that an accomplishment?



Easy Will........don't be hatin on the Stihl.


----------



## parrisw (Oct 24, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Easy Will........don't be hatin on the Stihl.



LOL, who be hatin? Me be hatin!!


----------



## gcdible1 (Oct 24, 2012)

*A GTG to remember*

Was really planning on coming to the gtg this weekend. Was looking forward to shaking your hand and thanking you for getting my 066 together for me. Of course I do love it. The wife just got back to work and money is a bit tight so I really feel bad laying out the cash to take a trip right now. Wanted to meet all you guys in person finally, and see this 461 in action. After all really wanted to bring the family since it seems like this is going to be a big family style gtg from what wiggs' wife had said. Sorry to hijack your thread Randy, just wanted to throw this out there. Glad to see Wiggs has healed after his ordeal and can only hope 'Slinger and the others in our AS family do as well.

So tons of PICS and VIDS from this weekend please! Im sure Ill be a checking!:msp_biggrin:

Oh yeah and that 461 looks like it will Rock!


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 24, 2012)

I was hoping you would be there too. I understand money being tight though. I've been there many times. 

Many pics and videos will be taken......I promise. 



gcdible1 said:


> Was really planning on coming to the gtg this weekend. Was looking forward to shaking your hand and thanking you for getting my 066 together for me. Of course I do love it. The wife just got back to work and money is a bit tight so I really feel bad laying out the cash to take a trip right now. Wanted to meet all you guys in person finally, and see this 461 in action. After all really wanted to bring the family since it seems like this is going to be a big family style gtg from what wiggs' wife had said. Sorry to hijack your thread Randy, just wanted to throw this out there. Glad to see Wiggs has healed after his ordeal and can only hope 'Slinger and the others in our AS family do as well.
> 
> So tons of PICS and VIDS from this weekend please! Im sure Ill be a checking!:msp_biggrin:


----------



## young (Oct 24, 2012)

i wont be taking any pics, so you best pick up my slack in that department, randy


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 24, 2012)

young said:


> i wont be taking any pics, so you best pick up my slack in that department, randy



Just bring me that fancy camera since you don't use it any more. :msp_biggrin:


----------



## parrisw (Oct 24, 2012)

I think one of you need to have a Go Pro strapped to your head at all times.


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 24, 2012)

parrisw said:


> I think one of you need to have a Go Pro strapped to your head at all times.



I nominate Young.


----------



## young (Oct 24, 2012)

parrisw said:


> I think one of you need to have a Go Pro strapped to your head at all times.



be cool to mount it on the saw itself.


----------



## gcdible1 (Oct 24, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I was hoping you would be there too. I understand money being tight though. I've been there many times.
> 
> Many pics and videos will be taken......I promise.



Thanks! Just figured in fuel, food, hotel, etc. might be a bit much to swallow. The wife was even pretty hip to going too. But we kinda stumbled into buying another vehicle. One that will actually fit all 5 of us in it fairly comfortably. I figured it would be unwise to spend the cash to come after dropping nearly a grand on the sales tax, etc. New question is... How many chunks of wood can I haul on the roof rack of a Honda Pilot? LOL.


----------



## gcdible1 (Oct 24, 2012)

I read somwhere that there were very few parts that were different between the 460 and 461. Being the R model, I was wondering if you looked at the oil pump and saw if that whole setup was the same or interchangeable with any of the other newer Stihl models in the lineup? I believe any saw I buy will have the HD oiler if I can help it.


----------



## Rudolf73 (Oct 24, 2012)

young said:


> be cool to mount it on the saw itself.



Too many vibrationzzzezzz 

Might work on a husky though... :jester:


----------



## Trx250r180 (Oct 24, 2012)

I take it you made it louder like my other saws :msp_biggrin:


----------



## young (Oct 24, 2012)

Rudolf73 said:


> Too many vibrationzzzezzz
> 
> Might work on a husky though... :jester:



ha.........ha........:msp_sneaky:


----------



## parrisw (Oct 24, 2012)

young said:


> be cool to mount it on the saw itself.



Yes, I want to try that, have often thought of it. But don't have a GO Pro.:msp_angry:


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 24, 2012)

trx250r180 said:


> I take it you made it louder like my other saws :msp_biggrin:



Louder.......check. :msp_wink:


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 24, 2012)

I'm heading out to put some time on this saw.........later. :msp_wink:


----------



## Trx250r180 (Oct 24, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Louder.......check. :msp_wink:



how bout some movies then


----------



## Naked Arborist (Oct 24, 2012)

Geeeezz Randy that's not an exhaust port that is just one big ass gaping ditch. Looks like you tried to cut an expansion chamber in there. I hope it's got some some serious top end pull with that canyon of hole. Good thing you put the screens and chit in there to keep the cold air off the rings, really? wow...

And I worry about going too far. Your way past gone. See what CAD does to your sense of perception!

I gota go fix a kiln, you guys are killing me...


----------



## deye223 (Oct 24, 2012)

Naked Arborist said:


> Geeeezz Randy that's not an exhaust port that is just one big ass gaping ditch. Looks like you tried to cut an expansion chamber in there. I hope it's got some some serious top end pull with that canyon of hole. Good thing you put the screens and chit in there to keep the cold air off the rings, really? wow...
> 
> And I worry about going too far. Your way past gone. See what CAD does to your sense of perception!
> 
> I gota go fix a kiln, you guys are killing me...



he did good on my 460 the thing is not in the same class as the stock one i sold it's miles ahead


----------



## Trx250r180 (Oct 24, 2012)

Naked Arborist said:


> Geeeezz Randy that's not an exhaust port that is just one big ass gaping ditch. Looks like you tried to cut an expansion chamber in there. I hope it's got some some serious top end pull with that canyon of hole. Good thing you put the screens and chit in there to keep the cold air off the rings, really? wow...
> 
> And I worry about going too far. Your way past gone. See what CAD does to your sense of perception!
> 
> I gota go fix a kiln, you guys are killing me...



go big or go home :msp_wink:

it actually looks like what he did to my hybrid looking down the muffler ,it runs pretty good ,lots of tourque ,pulls a 32 inch bar real nice in fir


----------



## gcdible1 (Oct 24, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I'm heading out to put some time on this saw.........later. :msp_wink:



Wow, sounds like a rough gig man. LOL:rolleyes2:

Have fun! You could be about to go in and clean up after 1000 Jr. High kids. Id take running a saw anyday! Matter of fact...I already did today.


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 24, 2012)

Naked Arborist said:


> Geeeezz Randy that's not an exhaust port that is just one big ass gaping ditch. Looks like you tried to cut an expansion chamber in there. I hope it's got some some serious top end pull with that canyon of hole. Good thing you put the screens and chit in there to keep the cold air off the rings, really? wow...
> 
> And I worry about going too far. Your way past gone. See what CAD does to your sense of perception!
> 
> I gota go fix a kiln, you guys are killing me...



It's not nearly as big as you seem to perceive. I have a pattern I use that fits the muffler after removing the baffle and the lip......

I can say that this saw freaking rips. :msp_sneaky:

I've been noodling with a 25" 8 pin and square ground chain.......holy ####.......I mean dammit. 

:msp_smile:


----------



## fastLeo151 (Oct 24, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> It's not nearly as big as you seem to perceive. I have a pattern I use that fits the muffler after removing the baffle and the lip......
> 
> I can say that this saw freaking rips. :msp_sneaky:
> 
> ...



giggle giggle haha hehe giggle giggle now I really want one


----------



## thomas1 (Oct 24, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> It's not nearly as big as you seem to perceive. I have a pattern I use that fits the muffler after removing the baffle and the lip......


----------



## cutforfun (Oct 24, 2012)

i know i am not the only one waiting to see this thing in some wood.:msp_biggrin:


----------



## Trx250r180 (Oct 24, 2012)

cutforfun said:


> i know i am not the only one waiting to see this thing in some wood.:msp_biggrin:



+1 

im bout ready to hire the guy that says lets get ready to rumble for the introduction :msp_wink:


----------



## young (Oct 24, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> It's not nearly as big as you seem to perceive. I have a pattern I use that fits the muffler after removing the baffle and the lip......
> 
> I can say that this saw freaking rips. :msp_sneaky:
> 
> ...



ill bring 25in 404 bar with 8pin. that be a true test :msp_smile:


----------



## Trx250r180 (Oct 24, 2012)

randy must be pickin up his tux for the video shoot ,and pemier


----------



## H 2 H (Oct 24, 2012)

trx250r180 said:


> *randy must be pickin up his tux for the video shoot ,and pemier*



That's what we need pic's of Randy in a tux :msp_scared:


----------



## Trx250r180 (Oct 24, 2012)

H 2 H said:


> That's what we need pic's of Randy in a tux :msp_scared:



you know the spys at stihl usa are watching this thread to see the outcome :msp_wink:


----------



## Majorpayne (Oct 24, 2012)

H 2 H said:


> That's what we need pic's of Randy in a tux :msp_scared:



Anything is better than him in shorts.


----------



## Trx250r180 (Oct 24, 2012)

young said:


> ill bring 25in 404 bar with 8pin. that be a true test :msp_smile:



when it gets home a 32 is getting put on it ,see how she does


----------



## Rudolf73 (Oct 24, 2012)

trx250r180 said:


> you know the spys at stihl usa are watching this thread to see the outcome :msp_wink:



Yes I bet they are, I'd put money on it. 



Hello Stihl engineers, hope you are doing well! :msp_biggrin:


----------



## Slamm (Oct 24, 2012)

Rudolf73 said:


> Yes I bet they are, I'd put money on it.
> 
> 
> 
> Hello Stihl engineers, hope you are doing well! :msp_biggrin:



Dear Stihl engineers, if this engine is possibly this much better than the strato'd one in the 441, can you please make an M-Tronic version with all Steel Springs and 441ish air cleaning design.

Its October 24, 2012, now, could you have this done by Christmas??? I'll write Santa next.

Thank you,

Sam


----------



## Slamm (Oct 24, 2012)

Slamm said:


> Dear Stihl engineers, if this engine is possibly this much better than the strato'd one in the 441, can you please make an M-Tronic version with all Steel Springs and 441ish air cleaning design.
> 
> Its October 24, 2012, now, could you have this done by Christmas??? I'll write Santa next.
> 
> ...



Also can I have a strato'd or very fuel efficient MS661. I really, really want one of those.

Thats all for now, thanks for reading this. You can call me if you want to.

Sam


----------



## thomas1 (Oct 24, 2012)

Majorpayne said:


> Nothing is better than him in shorts.



Fixed.


----------



## Joe Kidd (Oct 24, 2012)

H 2 H said:


> That's what we need pic's of Randy in a tux :msp_scared:


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 24, 2012)

Sup?


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 24, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Sup?



Video is processing. :msp_sneaky:


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 24, 2012)

Here it is in the butt of the poplar I've been using for the last few weeks. 

Final numbers for the gearheads.....

Squish .024 
Compression 200psi
Ex 100°
Tr 125°
Intake 78.5° 
Removed from base .040

25 " Bar 3/8 8 pin

In the second cut I pulled the rpm way down to show just how broad the powerband is on this saw. I've not been this impressed with a saw in quite awhile. If a real worksaw is what you want this is it.......nothing is peaky about this one at all!

[video=youtube;ICdlk_YGREU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICdlk_YGREU&feature=youtu.be[/video]


----------



## fastLeo151 (Oct 24, 2012)

How does it compare to a 660? Stock and ported


----------



## blsnelling (Oct 24, 2012)

8-pin?!!! That thing looks fantastic


----------



## blsnelling (Oct 24, 2012)

fastLeo151 said:


> How does it compare to a 660? Stock and ported



In that size wood, I doubt a 66 would stand a chance.


----------



## parrisw (Oct 24, 2012)

Looks pretty good.


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 24, 2012)

fastLeo151 said:


> How does it compare to a 660? Stock and ported



We shall see in KY. I have a ported MS660 that blowing 200psi that I'm bringing. 



blsnelling said:


> 8-pin?!!! That thing looks fantastic



I know!!!!! I can't believe this thing Brad. 



blsnelling said:


> In that size wood, I doubt a 66 would stand a chance.



Me either.


----------



## blsnelling (Oct 24, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> We shall see in KY. I have a ported MS660 that blowing 200psi that I'm bringing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I bought mind with little intention of keeping it, but I'm beginning to wonder now:msp_scared:


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 24, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> I bought mind with little intention of keeping it, but I'm beginning to wonder now:msp_scared:



I'm thinking a bit less transfer would be even better.


----------



## H 2 H (Oct 24, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Here it is in the butt of the poplar I've been using for the last few weeks.
> 
> Final numbers for the gearheads.....
> 
> ...



Vary NICE :msp_wink:


----------



## thomas1 (Oct 24, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> We shall see in KY. I have a ported MS660 that blowing 200psi that I'm bringing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You should take that 084 along for comparisons, also. oke:


----------



## parrisw (Oct 24, 2012)

Don't get too excited guys, its just a Stihl.


----------



## gsg (Oct 24, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Here it is in the butt of the poplar I've been using for the last few weeks.
> 
> Final numbers for the gearheads.....
> 
> ...


 
When my 576 dies this will be my next chopping saw. I'm sitting here thinking about laying that thing into a nice fat oak tree now.:msp_biggrin:


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 24, 2012)

thomas1 said:


> You should take that 084 along for comparisons, also. oke:



I have a very nice one coming from California.......I just hope it arrive tomorrow. :msp_sneaky:



parrisw said:


> Don't get too excited guys, its just a Stihl.



It's quad ported Stihl though. :msp_wink:


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 24, 2012)

gsg said:


> When my 576 dies this will be my next chopping saw. I'm sitting here thinking about laying that thing into a nice fat oak tree now.:msp_biggrin:



We can kill the 576 ya know.


----------



## parrisw (Oct 24, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I have a very nice one coming from California.......I just hope it arrive tomorrow. :msp_sneaky:
> 
> 
> 
> It's quad ported Stihl though. :msp_wink:



So they finally had to build saws like Husky to keep up. LOL


----------



## thomas1 (Oct 24, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I have a very nice one coming from California.......I just hope it arrive tomorrow. :msp_sneaky:



A nice one? I was hoping for something a little more comparable. Could you drag it behind the truck, on the way to the GTG?


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 24, 2012)

parrisw said:


> So they finally had to build saws like Husky to keep up. LOL



I tore a 576 down yesterday.......the muffler bolts on just like a Stihl's does. No brace......just two bolts at the lower corners.........wonder where they got that idea?


----------



## mtrees (Oct 24, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> We can kill the 576 ya know.



Interested how a 576 would compare.


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 24, 2012)

thomas1 said:


> A nice one? I was hoping for something a little more comparable. Could you drag it behind the truck, on the way to the GTG?



Your saw ain't gonna be a bad looking saw when we get it done. :msp_biggrin:

Really.


----------



## shawnw (Oct 24, 2012)

I can't believe how hard/far the saw throws that freaking cookie. Awesome!! :msp_scared:


----------



## gsg (Oct 24, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> We can kill the 576 ya know.



I'm going to start trying hard to now!


----------



## thomas1 (Oct 24, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Your saw ain't gonna be a bad looking saw when we get it done. :msp_biggrin:
> 
> Really.



Looks don't make it go, baby.

I trust you.

Really.


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 24, 2012)

mtrees said:


> Interested how a 576 would compare.



I'll have yours done tomorrow if everything goes as planned.


----------



## deye223 (Oct 24, 2012)

shawnw said:


> I can't believe how hard/far the saw throws that freaking cookie. Awesome!! :msp_scared:



you need to see mine do it.

and looking very good randy now i need another saw damit


----------



## gsg (Oct 24, 2012)

mtrees said:


> Interested how a 576 would compare.



If its ported......similar but the husky has less torque by the looks of that vid. Sounded like the rakers were at least a bit low too!


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 24, 2012)

thomas1 said:


> Looks don't make it go, baby.
> 
> *I trust you.*
> 
> Really.



I was worried about that ya know.


----------



## mtrees (Oct 24, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I'll have yours done tomorrow if everything goes as planned.



I'm dying to see how it compares!!!!!!


----------



## Buffhunter (Oct 24, 2012)

Nice work randy..... wow i almost thought for a second that i wanted a stihl.... what the hell was i thinking????????


----------



## Anthony_Va. (Oct 24, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> We can kill the 576 ya know.



Darned sure can. Just send it to me. I've got a knack for running over Huskys. 

Randy, the 461 looks mean with that 8-pin. I know how my xpw cuts poplar, and I can tell thats a bit faster than it is.


----------



## parrisw (Oct 24, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I tore a 576 down yesterday.......the muffler bolts on just like a Stihl's does. No brace......just two bolts at the lower corners.........wonder where they got that idea?



I'd rather have it the usual husky way, like the 372's. I worked on a 441 once that got hit, muffler was hit and the covers, it smashed those two mounting bosses right off the case, I have to think on a 372 or the like it wouldn't of done that.


----------



## deye223 (Oct 24, 2012)

stihl don't need electrics to make a saw run :big_smile:


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 24, 2012)

deye223 said:


> you need to see mine do it.
> 
> and looking very good randy now i need another saw damit



Your 460 is one of the best I've done......some saws just turn out perfect. I don't think you need another saw at all. 



gsg said:


> If its ported......similar but the husky has less torque by the looks of that vid. Sounded like the rakers were at least a bit low too!



I think of the difference between a 036 and a MS361 as a good way to picture how this 461 pulls. The quad ports really make this thing strong with a wide power band.


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 24, 2012)

parrisw said:


> I'd rather have it the usual husky way, like the 372's. I worked on a 441 once that got hit, muffler was hit and the covers, it smashed those two mounting bosses right off the case, I have to think on a 372 or the like it wouldn't of done that.



Will you're just a Stihl hater.........like Brad is gonna be if he don't quit fooling with them Swedish babes.


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 24, 2012)

Anthony_Va. said:


> Darned sure can. Just send it to me. I've got a knack for running over Huskys.
> 
> Randy, the 461 looks mean with that 8-pin. I know how my xpw cuts poplar, and I can tell thats a bit faster than it is.



Yo Anthony, In KY we'll do a MS441CRM VS MS461 VS MS660 VS XPW Vs so on and so on and......... :msp_biggrin:


----------



## parrisw (Oct 24, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Will you're just a Stihl hater.........like Brad is gonna be if he don't quit fooling with them Swedish babes.



LOL, I've owned many Stihl's, its just that the huskys seem to stick around more. I just like funin with the stihl heads, they get bent outa shape way too easy. 

I just don't like the feel of Stihl's compared to Husky is all. I know a guy local that thought it would be cool to switch to all Stihl, he runs saws full time, so he got rid of his huskies, and bought Stihl, he now can't feel his hands at night, so now what is he doing? Selling the Stihl's and switching back to Husky!! I've had the same problem with them, and I don't run saws for a living.


----------



## deye223 (Oct 24, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Your 460 is one of the best I've done......some saws just turn out perfect. I don't think you need another saw at all.
> 
> you oughta see it now she'e fully run in let me mate run it and all he said was WOW
> 
> ...


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 24, 2012)

deye223 said:


> now that would nice to see that will make a great video :msp_wink:



I'll try to get that on video.


----------



## fastLeo151 (Oct 24, 2012)

I love my ported 460 but its definitely going to be sitting on the shelf more often when i get a 461.


----------



## deye223 (Oct 24, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I'll try to get that on video.



that would be good 

and i would like to know what the comp ends up at after 10 or 20 tanks so hand it around LOL
will be interesting to see where it ends up

cheers D


----------



## Anthony_Va. (Oct 24, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Yo Anthony, In KY we'll do a MS441CRM VS MS461 VS MS660 VS XPW Vs so on and so on and......... :msp_biggrin:



Yea I can't wait to do some racin.

I almost ordered a 9 pin rim off Ebay just for grins ad giggs.....at Wiggz.

I wish I had ordered it now.


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 24, 2012)

Anthony_Va. said:


> Yea I can't wait to do some racin.
> 
> I almost ordered a 9 pin rim off Ebay just for grins ad giggs.....at Wiggz.
> 
> I wish I had ordered it now.



I'll have one with me. I'm not too interested in the racing though. 

Getting out of this shop is what I'm looking forward to.


----------



## bryanr2 (Oct 24, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I'll have one with me. I'm not too interested in the racing though.
> 
> *Getting out of this shop is what I'm looking forward to. *





that's exactly how my 2171 feels.:taped: Told me so in a dream.:msp_sleep:


----------



## Anthony_Va. (Oct 25, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I'll have one with me. I'm not too interested in the racing though.
> 
> Getting out of this shop is what I'm looking forward to.



Definetly need a vacation myself. I'm pretty burned out trying to get all of the Summer chores taken care of. Still got about a day of bush hawging left to do. That, and clean and put up al of the hay equipment. That stuff can wait till next weekend though.


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 25, 2012)

bryanr2 said:


> [/U][/I][/B]
> 
> 
> that's exactly how my 2171 feels.:taped: Told me so in a dream.:msp_sleep:



It's getting out of the shop too Steven........I'll take it to the GTG and let it stretch it's legs a bit.  



Anthony_Va. said:


> Definetly need a vacation myself. I'm pretty burned out trying to get all of the Summer chores taken care of. Still got about a day of bush hawging left to do. That, and clean and put up al of the hay equipment. That stuff can wait till next weekend though.



Working the way Jon and I have been for the last few months is tough on a guy. I probably put in over 80 hours a week counting emails and shipping.


----------



## bryanr2 (Oct 25, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> *It's getting out of the shop too Steven........I'll take it to the GTG and let it stretch it's legs a bit.
> *
> 
> 
> Working the way Jon and I have been for the last few months is tough on a guy. I probably put in over 80 hours a week counting emails and shipping.



No scratches..... it's a collector's piece. least to me it is.


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 25, 2012)

bryanr2 said:


> No scratches..... it's a collector's piece. least to me it is.



We'll take good care of your baby.


----------



## bryanr2 (Oct 25, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> We'll take good care of your baby.



least it is until we get our hands on the elusive 540xp:bang:


----------



## cowroy (Oct 25, 2012)

At Terry's GTG I wanted to run more saws instead of getting a lot of video, but this go around it will be business as usual. VIDEO! :msp_thumbup:


----------



## Officer's Match (Oct 25, 2012)

Randy, that 461 looks amazing. I still wish it had my 441's spring av, but I gotta' say I'm MIGHTY tempted. Heck, that even has my 390XPW nervous.


----------



## Andyshine77 (Oct 25, 2012)

In that wood with that chain, it sure looks like Stihl finally got one right, well except for maybe the AV. Honestly it reminds me of a 361+P.


----------



## tramp bushler (Oct 25, 2012)

Well since ya'll took the time and effort to write it I guess I better go read it all. From a Fallers p.o.v. I have about 5 questions tho.
1. What's the powerhead weight with the powerhead that was in the first video? 
2. Are the handles stretched out like the 441 s were ie further apart than the 460 s
3. Does iit have a good old fashion single barrel Carb? 
4. Does it hold more gas and oil then the 460 .
5. Can it be adjusted so it screams but still have GOOD torque.
6. Will it out stump a 460 ? 

No spring mounts is a bummer.
I LIKE the rear mounted ignition! !!!!!!!!!!!
I like the handle bar, more room than the 460 . It would be sweet if the Weber 460 hb would bolt right on tho. 

Sorry, 6 questions.


----------



## blsnelling (Oct 25, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Will you're just a Stihl hater.........like Brad is gonna be if he don't quit fooling with them Swedish babes.



Never! A great saw is a great saw reguardless of color.


----------



## Termite (Oct 25, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Yo Anthony, In KY we'll do a MS441CRM VS MS461 VS MS660 VS XPW Vs so on and so on and......... :msp_biggrin:



Vs 576AT ??


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 25, 2012)

tramp bushler said:


> Well since ya'll took the time and effort to write it I guess I better go read it all. From a Fallers p.o.v. I have about 5 questions tho.
> 1. What's the powerhead weight with the powerhead that was in the first video?
> 2. Are the handles stretched out like the 441 s were ie further apart than the 460 s
> 3. Does iit have a good old fashion single barrel Carb?
> ...



#1. I don't know......it's wearing a bar and chain and I don't have time to remove it right now. After we return from KY I can weigh the powerhead for you. 

#2. It feels just like a 460.

#3. Yep.

#4. Same.

#5. I'm not following. I never lean a saw way out. The 461 is rev limited at 13,500.

#6. Yes, It has more torque than any Stihl in this class that I've ever ran. 



Termite said:


> Vs 576AT ??



I don't have an 576AT here at the moment, I'm trying to finish up a 576XP though....


----------



## o8f150 (Oct 25, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Here it is in the butt of the poplar I've been using for the last few weeks.
> 
> Final numbers for the gearheads.....
> 
> ...



WOW!!! good job as usual randy,, but i have just 1 complaint,,, NO FREAKING LEG SHOWING!!!


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 25, 2012)

o8f150 said:


> WOW!!! good job as usual randy,, but i have just 1 complaint,,, NO FREAKING LEG SHOWING!!!



I realized that I had the aspect ratio set wrong on my camera when Niko kept talking about the square cants being out of square........you guys have no idea how big my belly really is.


----------



## deye223 (Oct 25, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I realized that I had the aspect ratio set wrong on my camera when Niko kept talking about the square cants being out of square........you guys have no idea how big my belly really is.



think i better change the aspect ratio of me camera ps:


----------



## gtsawyer (Oct 25, 2012)

I'll have to save all of my spare pennies for this new model; I've been waiting for the MS461 for at least a couple of years now. I don't have the brains to do any mods myself, so am very interested in the results from the resident modders here on the site. Note to self: save even more $ to have someone competent mod it for me...

My current piggy bank is busted open and completely empty (just purchased a Supersplit).


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 25, 2012)

gtsawyer said:


> I'll have to save all of my spare pennies for this new model; I've been waiting for the MS461 for at least a couple of years now. I don't have the brains to do any mods myself, so am very interested in the results from the resident modders here on the site. Note to self: save even more $ to have someone competent mod it for me...
> 
> My current piggy bank is busted open and completely empty (just purchased a Supersplit).



I'm always open to trades on port work. Just Sayin. :msp_smile:


----------



## komatsuvarna (Oct 25, 2012)

I gotta bad feeling im gonna want one of these 461s after this weekend.....that wrap west coast version sure does look good too. Not sure if i could keep the huskies behaved with that 1 Stihl in the mix!


----------



## Tree Sling'r (Oct 25, 2012)

komatsuvarna said:


> I gotta bad feeling im gonna want one of these 461s after this weekend.....that wrap west coast version sure does look good too. Not sure if i could keep the huskies behaved with that 1 Stihl in the mix!



I want one too, don't need one, but I want it. Gimme, Gimme, Gimme!!!!!


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 25, 2012)

komatsuvarna said:


> I gotta bad feeling im gonna want one of these 461s after this weekend.....that wrap west coast version sure does look good too. Not sure if i could keep the huskies behaved with that 1 Stihl in the mix!



I'm looking forward to seeing how the one Scott built runs. He builds a strong running saw.....


----------



## gtsawyer (Oct 25, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> I'm always open to trades on port work. Just Sayin. :msp_smile:



I've got a hungry son I'll throw into the trade too. That should even things out a bit.


----------



## Trx250r180 (Oct 25, 2012)

you did a great job on the saw randy ,the cookies ejecting off the cut was cool ,that thing has some tourque ,it will have a 7 pin and 32 inch bar when it gets home .like i said before if you need more time for r&d im not in a hurry to get it home ,it was just bought mainly for info for the arborsite members


----------



## Trx250r180 (Oct 25, 2012)

tramp bushler said:


> Well since ya'll took the time and effort to write it I guess I better go read it all. From a Fallers p.o.v. I have about 5 questions tho.
> 1. What's the powerhead weight with the powerhead that was in the first video?
> 2. Are the handles stretched out like the 441 s were ie further apart than the 460 s
> 3. Does iit have a good old fashion single barrel Carb?
> ...




the handlebar apears to be right off a 460 ,its the same as one on mine ,the dual port muffler was also off a 460 as the sprocket cover ,it feels just like one ,the upper plastics are slimmer though kinda husky 372 width for comparison here is specs out of my owners manual 
View attachment 259170

View attachment 259171


----------



## Trx250r180 (Oct 25, 2012)

heres some images taken before sent to randy 
View attachment 259172

View attachment 259173

View attachment 259174

View attachment 259175


----------



## gcdible1 (Oct 25, 2012)

*What's in Randy's belly?*



Mastermind said:


> I realized that I had the aspect ratio set wrong on my camera when Niko kept talking about the square cants being out of square........you guys have no idea how big my belly really is.



So Randy are you telling us you may just be brewing us up a new baby saw in there?

The real question is will it be a Stihl, Husky, Jonnie, or what? I'll call Maury and we will find out...


----------



## mtrees (Oct 25, 2012)

mastermind said:


> i realized that i had the aspect ratio set wrong on my camera when niko kept talking about the square cants being out of square........you guys have no idea how big my belly really is.



pie!!


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 25, 2012)

mtrees said:


> pie!!



Mike do you mind if I break in your port job on the 576 on the WKY GTG? :msp_mellow:


----------



## mdavlee (Oct 25, 2012)

That saw looks good Randy. Almost good enough for me to want one.:msp_thumbup:

Iv'e got a 9 pin hanging on the wall here if you want to stop by and get it anthony.


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 25, 2012)

mdavlee said:


> That saw looks good Randy. Almost good enough for me to want one.:msp_thumbup:
> 
> Iv'e got a 9 pin hanging on the wall here if you want to stop by and get it anthony.



"The Wiggs" called me up and scolded me because my chain was too grabby. He said I made the saw look bad with my ineffective filing.


----------



## mdavlee (Oct 25, 2012)

It might have been a hair grabby. Nothing bad I didn't think. You get a grinder yet?


----------



## tramp bushler (Oct 25, 2012)

Thank you guys! !! It looks like they have Not over thunk it. Thats good! 13,5 is a good rpm. Course 17 k would be better :cool2:
Spring mounts would have been an added plus! As I have my eyes on the 390 Husky I'll probably pass this up for a while. But I'll get one way before I get a 576 . Good old fashioned single barrel Carb is a major plus for me. If they made it in the R with heated handle bar it might be my next saw.
Thanks again! !


----------



## HEAVY FUEL (Oct 25, 2012)

mdavlee said:


> It might have been a hair grabby. Nothing bad I didn't think. You get a grinder yet?



He wouldn't have that problem if he'd just wait for the wood to freeze good & solid.


----------



## tramp bushler (Oct 25, 2012)

Chain looked OK to me. BUT, I haven't cut any real hardwood in a long long time.
In the bottom of the cuts on the video I appreciate him hoggin it thru the cut. Shows the saw has good torque. . Nice to see it will pull more wood than the dia that was being cut. 
Thats about how much I load the motor when putting in the Humbolt face cut or tearing off the back cut when a tree takes off fast. For buckin I keep the rpm up, keeps the bar groove cleaned out and puts more oil in the bar.

Great vid. !!


----------



## mtrees (Oct 25, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Mike do you mind if I break in your port job on the 576 on the WKY GTG? :msp_mellow:



Nope have at it!! Picking up a 461 Wednesday. I'm interested to see the comparison.


----------



## dwraisor (Oct 25, 2012)

tramp bushler said:


> If they made it in the R with heated handle bar it might be my next saw....




They do make the R maode as this is one, but Stihl no longer makes any saw w/ a heated grip. I wrote Stihl and posted the responce here --> http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/212017-5.htm#post3906482 post #75

dw


----------



## Tree Sling'r (Oct 25, 2012)

Will a MS460 coil un-limit this saw or is the carb limited as well? Great job BTW.


----------



## Trx250r180 (Oct 25, 2012)

Tree Sling'r said:


> Will a MS460 coil un-limit this saw or is the carb limited as well? Great job BTW.



this quote was on another site ,it apears he put a 460 coil on for tuning 
no wires to the carb ,looks right off a 460 except throttle lever linkage has extra dowl on it 


That was my impression also after I 'dissected' my first MS461.
No complications.
But fine tuning the carb would be a pain because of the speed limiter at 13500 rpm.Anything above that causes the tachometer to go berserk. 
Doing a 'by ear' tune-up is a bit dicey for me because I need time to get familiar with this saw
I found an easy fix for that!
When you want to adjust the carb, replace the ignition module with that of a MS460. That eliminates the speed limiter. Do the tuning and refit the original module.
This method improved the performance by at least 15%.


----------



## Trx250r180 (Oct 25, 2012)

more info on the strato part 


I will try to explain that the best way I can because my 'book' knowledge is pretty low on technical stuff.

Where the design of the 461 differs from other stratified charge engines is that the others use fresh air routed through an additional air valve(butterfly) at the intake.
All that achieved with some additional fancy hardware at the carb end.

Well, the 461 does not use fresh air for the stratification. Instead it uses the exhaust gases for doing the job.Which is why the trasfer ports are begin on the exhaust side of the cylinder, at the bottom end and curve upwards to either sideon the cylinder walls.

The result is a less complicated strato charged engine.
The cut out on the piston skirt does seem to act as an on/off valve for controlling the intake air from the cylinder to the transfer ports.

The carb looks the same as the one on the 460, except for this difference on the outside
This is to reduce the opening of the carb butterfly in the 'Start' position.
Even a slight pressure on the throttle has the engine screaming in the mid ranges.So that additional arm helps the scream at a reasonable level.

The jet sizes are changed. low is richer. High is leaner, for the removable high speed jet.(0.58 in place of the 0.68)

To increase air velocity into the crankcase, for better flushing of the crankcase and for better directional air flow, something called a washbridge has been fitted across both halves of the crankcase, at the inlet side


----------



## ri chevy (Oct 25, 2012)

What do the air filters look like on this saw? Can someone post a photo of the filter please?


----------



## young (Oct 25, 2012)

ri chevy said:


> What do the air filters look like on this saw? Can someone post a photo of the filter please?



same hd2 filter as used in 440/441/460/660/880


----------



## blsnelling (Oct 25, 2012)

It's the same HD2 filter used on the other saws.


----------



## ri chevy (Oct 25, 2012)

Thanks. Is it the round or oval shaped "automotive type" air filter?


----------



## deye223 (Oct 25, 2012)

ri chevy said:


> Thanks. Is it the round or oval shaped "automotive type" air filter?



it's one of these


----------



## ri chevy (Oct 25, 2012)

Cool! Thank you.


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 26, 2012)

mdavlee said:


> It might have been a hair grabby. Nothing bad I didn't think. You get a grinder yet?



No Mike....I've talked myself out of one for the moment. 



mtrees said:


> Nope have at it!! Picking up a 461 Wednesday. I'm interested to see the comparison.



Picking up a 461? This saw is becoming the most popular girl at the dance huh? 


Jasha the carb isn't governed, and I've not fitted a 460 coil (don't have one here right now) but I've read that it does work.


----------



## young (Oct 26, 2012)

so its got a limited coil? whats the limit 14k?


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 26, 2012)

young said:


> so its got a limited coil? whats the limit 14k?



Pay attention Young.......13,500 :msp_sneaky:


----------



## deye223 (Oct 26, 2012)

young said:


> so its got a limited coil? whats the limit 14k?



post 260


----------



## young (Oct 26, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> Pay attention Young.......13,500 :msp_sneaky:



tl; dr:jester:


----------



## CR500 (Oct 26, 2012)

From what I have seen in the video, I may have to sell my 441 and give the new girl a try lol..... I can't wait to see how the ported 441 CM compares to a ported 461, I like my 441 but my money has to go to the 461. Randy how does the vibration feel on this saw? I hear it is pretty smooth for Rubber Mounts, any truth??

As I'm typing I can't but help think if I can pick a 461 powerhead up for around $915-$950 and get $750-$800 out of the 441 I may become the owner of a 461.... of course I need to hear some reviews before I make my final choice...


----------



## fastLeo151 (Oct 26, 2012)

What exactly does the 461r come with?


----------



## deye223 (Oct 26, 2012)

fastLeo151 said:


> What exactly does the 461r come with?



hmmm lets see 3/4 wrap high volume oiler oversize clutch cover dual dawgs roller chain catcher possibly a larger high speed jet than normal ???


----------



## Mike-B (Oct 26, 2012)

trx250r180 said:


> more info on the strato part...
> 
> Well, the 461 does not use fresh air for the stratification. Instead it uses the exhaust gases for doing the job.Which is why the trasfer ports are begin on the exhaust side of the cylinder, at the bottom end and curve upwards to either sideon the cylinder walls.
> 
> The result is a less complicated strato charged engine....



This is interesting information.

So I was <a href="http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/210908.htm#post3880870">right</a>, they <i>are </i> using a form of Exhaust Gas Recirculation to achieve their emissions reduction. It's pretty clever... Tree Monkey, your thoughts? :msp_smile:

Better make sure your mix oil is good lads; some of it is going through your engine twice! ;-)


----------



## splitpost (Oct 26, 2012)

trx250r180 said:


> this quote was on another site ,it apears he put a 460 coil on for tuning
> no wires to the carb ,looks right off a 460 except throttle lever linkage has extra dowl on it
> 
> 
> ...



what am i not reading, why wouldn't you just leave the 460 coil in there permanently?


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 26, 2012)

CR500 said:


> From what I have seen in the video, I may have to sell my 441 and give the new girl a try lol..... I can't wait to see how the ported 441 CM compares to a ported 461, I like my 441 but my money has to go to the 461. Randy how does the vibration feel on this saw? I hear it is pretty smooth for Rubber Mounts, any truth??
> 
> 
> As I'm typing I can't but help think if I can pick a 461 powerhead up for around $915-$950 and get $750-$800 out of the 441 I may become the owner of a 461.... of course I need to hear some reviews before I make my final choice...



It feels like a 460 in my hands.....the rubber av doesn't bother me on a saw though.



fastLeo151 said:


> What exactly does the 461r come with?





deye223 said:


> hmmm lets see 3/4 wrap high volume oiler oversize clutch cover dual dawgs roller chain catcher possibly a larger high speed jet than normal ???



I don't think the jet is any different but everything else is spot on. 



splitpost said:


> what am i not reading, why wouldn't you just leave the 460 coil in there permanently?



These new coils are pretty smart.......retarding at start up......advancing at the upper end. Swapping coils may hurt performance. We'll test that in KY today.


----------



## deye223 (Oct 26, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> These new coils are pretty smart.......retarding at start up......advancing at the upper end. Swapping coils may hurt performance. We'll test that in KY today.



sounds like a good idea to try one on a 460 :msp_sneaky:


----------



## s219 (Oct 26, 2012)

CR500 said:


> As I'm typing I can't but help think if I can pick a 461 powerhead up for around $915-$950 and get $750-$800 out of the 441 I may become the owner of a 461....



That's what I did -- sold my 441-CM to a buddy who was looking for one, and got the 461. There was no rhyme or reason to do it; the whole opportunity kind of just fell into my lap and it seemed like a great way to feed the CAD. I blame the dealer for getting me hyped up on the 461. I am pretty sure he ordered it knowing he could hook me and sell it right off the delivery truck... I told him to stop leaving messages on my home answering machine before my wife catches on.


----------



## parrisw (Oct 26, 2012)

Mike-B said:


> This is interesting information.
> 
> So I was <a href="http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/210908.htm#post3880870">right</a>, they <i>are </i> using a form of Exhaust Gas Recirculation to achieve their emissions reduction. It's pretty clever... Tree Monkey, your thoughts? :msp_smile:
> 
> Better make sure your mix oil is good lads; some of it is going through your engine twice! ;-)



Nothing cleaver about that, been around a long time.


----------



## blsnelling (Oct 26, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> These new coils are pretty smart.......retarding at start up......advancing at the upper end. Swapping coils may hurt performance. We'll test that in KY today.



Excellent. I have a spare 460 coil at home on the shelf.


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 28, 2012)

Well I got to run Scott's built 461 and Brad's muffler modded one. The one Scott built had an edge on the one I built in speed but the numbers I used seemed to build a little more torque......at least in my heavy hand. 

Either way they were really close. The two ported ones were ahead of the stock one by several seconds and only a couple of seconds separated the two ported ones. 

I had a blast at this GTG. 

Hooray 461!!!!!!


----------



## Officer's Match (Oct 28, 2012)

And how did the 461's compare to other saws in their class? Did they hold up to the 372 Andre ported for Mike?


----------



## young (Oct 28, 2012)

stock or ported it has the widest usable power band. 

and torque of a 660 in a 460 sized package.


----------



## Outlaw5.0 (Oct 28, 2012)

Those are sure impressive!. Too bad a power head(shortest bar) is $1100!.


----------



## young (Oct 28, 2012)

Outlaw5.0 said:


> Those are sure impressive!. Too bad a power head(shortest bar) is $1100!.



around here its listed for $1009 with a 16in b/c, but you cant even get a dealer to order one. bryan equipment wont sell any till all the 460s are gone.


----------



## mtrees (Oct 28, 2012)

young said:


> around here its listed for $1009 with a 16in b/c, but you cant even get a dealer to order one. bryan equipment wont sell any till all the 460s are gone.



I paid $900.00. 16"


----------



## ri chevy (Oct 28, 2012)

Where are all the photos and videos? Come on now. :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 28, 2012)

mtrees said:


> I paid $900.00. 16"



You surely get a preferred customer discount since you buy a saw every two weeks. :msp_tongue:


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 28, 2012)

ri chevy said:


> Where are all the photos and videos? Come on now. :hmm3grin2orange:



I was on a getaway from the shop.......I never took any pics or videos. Cowroy did do a #### load of video though....and had some of this saw, Scott's build, and Brad's one as well. It will probably be awhile before he processes it all though......


----------



## blsnelling (Oct 28, 2012)

Officer's Match said:


> And how did the 461's compare to other saws in their class? Did they hold up to the 372 Andre ported for Mike?



My opinion so far... The 461 is looking to be the ultimate worksaw, not cookie cutter. They make crazy torque, but not the RPMs of a 372 or 460. When I build mine, I'll be looking for more RPMs in it, while not loosing the torque that makes them so strong. Can it be done? Hopefully it won't cost me a cylinder to find out, lol


----------



## young (Oct 28, 2012)

let me say i was very impressed. surprisingly. a stock saw even.

i ran it before brad and he almost didnt believe me when i said it had stupid torque.


----------



## blsnelling (Oct 28, 2012)

Yeah, you said it had torque. But no, I mean this thing has TORQUE!!!!!


----------



## young (Oct 28, 2012)

modern day 064.


----------



## Anthony_Va. (Oct 28, 2012)

I was impressed by the 461s also. They kinda felt like a 660 in the cut. You could put some weight down on them too, and they would'nt bog. It's just not enough to make me want to trade my newly ported 441C for though. After doing some more cutting with it today I can really feel the power it has. The only solution I can come up with is to buy a 461 (if I can ever afford it) and just keep them both.  The ported 461's are stronger than the ported 441C's though.


----------



## fastLeo151 (Oct 28, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> My opinion so far... The 461 is looking to be the ultimate worksaw, not cookie cutter. They make crazy torque, but not the RPMs of a 372 or 460. When I build mine, I'll be looking for more RPMs in it, while not loosing the torque that makes them so strong. Can it be done? Hopefully it won't cost me a cylinder to find
> 
> 
> 
> Torque is what I desire most in a worksaw, you can always get more chain speed with a sprocket swap.


----------



## blsnelling (Oct 28, 2012)

I want both. Not every saw gives both though.


----------



## fastLeo151 (Oct 28, 2012)

Anthony_Va. said:


> I was impressed by the 461s also. They kinda felt like a 660 in the cut. You could put some weight down on them too, and they would'nt bog. It's just not enough to make me want to trade my newly ported 441C for though. After doing some more cutting with it today I can really feel the power it has. The only solution I can come up with is to buy a 461 (if I can ever afford it) and just keep them both.  The ported 461's are stronger than the ported 441C's though.






Did they get run against any bigger saws? Or other ported saws?


----------



## blsnelling (Oct 28, 2012)

The ported 461s were about 20% faster than my MMd one. I don't know that they were compared to any other ported saws.


----------



## mtrees (Oct 28, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> You surely get a preferred customer discount since you buy a saw every two weeks. :msp_tongue:



I believe I do . Have them all now.


----------



## tramp bushler (Oct 28, 2012)

Sounds good so far. I wonder if the flywheel or the crank is heavier than the 460 ?? 
More torque is always nice. Especially as the bars get longer.
I want to say that I really appreciate you guys doing all this testing and reporting back. It is great seeing the results come in. ! 
Did you guys do powerhead swaps with 1 bar and chain? Or did each saw have its own b+ c . ?


----------



## blsnelling (Oct 28, 2012)

Same B&C on all three saws.


----------



## mtrees (Oct 28, 2012)

blsnelling said:


> Same B&C on all three saws.



Build it!!!! I like RPM's!!!!


----------



## cowroy (Oct 28, 2012)

ri chevy said:


> Where are all the photos and videos? Come on now. :hmm3grin2orange:





Mastermind said:


> I was on a getaway from the shop.......I never took any pics or videos. Cowroy did do a #### load of video though....and had some of this saw, Scott's build, and Brad's one as well. It will probably be awhile before he processes it all though......



I have lots of video, just not a lot of time. I won't be albe to start uploading till tonight about 7:45et so stay tuned. Her is a link to my youtube channel cowroytube


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 28, 2012)

My wife picked this up for me while I was gone.....


----------



## thomas1 (Oct 28, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> My wife picked this up for me while I was gone.....



From Dennis?


----------



## Mastermind (Oct 28, 2012)

thomas1 said:


> From Dennis?



It came from California but not from Dennis. It was in the classifieds here....


----------



## thomas1 (Oct 28, 2012)

Mastermind said:


> It came from California but not from Dennis. It was in the classifieds here....



Now I know what one is supposed to like.


----------



## mcginkleschmidt (Oct 28, 2012)

350jeepcj5 said:


>



This useful post serves to prove that pie are round and cornbread are square......http://lrnoah.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/oth5.jpg


----------



## ri chevy (Oct 28, 2012)

cowroy said:


> I have lots of video, just not a lot of time. I won't be albe to start uploading till tonight about 7:45et so stay tuned. Her is a link to my youtube channel cowroytube



opcorn:


----------



## MCW (Feb 12, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Yo Anthony, In KY we'll do a MS441CRM VS MS461 VS MS660 VS XPW





Mastermind said:


> We'll test that in KY today.



Not the best choice of words Randy...


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 12, 2013)

MCW said:


> Not the best choice of words Randy...



Looking back I would have to agree. :cool2:


----------



## thomas1 (Feb 12, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Looking back I would have to agree. :cool2:



I see what you did there. :msp_wink:


----------



## MCW (Feb 12, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Looking back I would have to agree. :cool2:



I was really hoping to see more videos but the second I saw KY and chainsaws in the same sentence I thought it's probably best that we just stick to pictures. Even then I'm not so sure...


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 12, 2013)

Videos? Of a 461? I got this Matt. :msp_sneaky:

Here's Young's doing the noodle thing. I love to pull on a saw in the cut.......it easier for me to use the spikes than to try and hold em away from the wood all day......that's were the 461 shines.....when you are just working with it. 

[video=youtube;L1qLgHec388]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1qLgHec388&list=UUg2yelCeKwB12xIohZfmf1g&index=11[/video]


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 12, 2013)

Here's Bradley using one the way he normally does. :msp_confused:

[video=youtube;pfDkdotHzY8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfDkdotHzY8&NR=1&feature=fvwp&list=UUg2yelCeKwB12xIohZfmf1g[/video]


----------



## MCW (Feb 12, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Videos? Of a 461? I got this Matt. :msp_sneaky:



What? No KY involved? You disappoint me Randy.


----------



## mweba (Feb 12, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Here's Bradley using one the way he normally does. :msp_confused:
> 
> [video=youtube;pfDkdotHzY8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfDkdotHzY8&NR=1&feature=fvwp&list=UUg2yelCeKwB12xIohZfmf1g[/video]



The official AS metering diaphragm tester. :taped:


----------



## indiansprings (Feb 12, 2013)

I'll take the worksaw over the cookie cutter every time, worksaws make me money, unless you are a proffessional saw racer a cookie cutter will wind up costing you money, running on the ragged edge, things break when put into working conditions day after day. The 461 will only get better as the platform evolves eventually into a CM, they really built this to replace not only the 460 but the 650 as well as a solid hard working worksaw, those noodling vids makes it very evident it has the tourque to get the job done, as well as I like my 460, the 461 is an improved platform for those who make money with their saws. A good vid would be a run of the mill 460, not a hand picked one and a broke in 461 stock running either a 25 or 28" bar buried in red oak or hickory.


----------



## tramp bushler (Feb 12, 2013)

I'd like to see the 460 and 461 compared with a 36" bar buried in Sitka Spruce. But that's OK. It seems it is a lot more torquey saw.

How r they holding up?


----------



## young (Feb 12, 2013)

how are they holding up???

they are basically the same saw as a 460 with a new design top end, plastics and few other minor changes. ill go out on a limb as say they are as solid as a 460.


----------



## thomas1 (Feb 12, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Here's Bradley using one the way he normally does. :msp_confused:



Only wood he had available.


----------



## russhd1997 (Feb 12, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Here's Bradley using one the way he normally does. :msp_confused:





thomas1 said:


> Only wood he had available.



Guess he was out of rotten pine! :msp_wink:


----------



## tramp bushler (Feb 13, 2013)

For Professional use, the whole saw needs to work right all the time. When new saws come out they often will have some problem that stops them from working. Just wondering if any problems are showing up with the 461 . ?


----------



## Trx250r180 (Feb 13, 2013)

tramp bushler said:


> For Professional use, the whole saw needs to work right all the time. When new saws come out they often will have some problem that stops them from working. Just wondering if any problems are showing up with the 461 . ?



my saw is the one at beginning of this thread ,only failure ive had was the decomp valve lost its spring tention ,that could happen with any saw though ,only complaint i have was the new style filter packs with sawdust ,i got a sock cover for the filter ,problem fixed ,i recomend this as a good felling saw reminds me of a lighter 660


----------



## xxl (Feb 13, 2013)

Is stihl getting cheap? I didn't see mahle on that cylinder.


----------



## Jacob J. (Feb 13, 2013)

xxl said:


> Is stihl getting cheap? I didn't see mahle on that cylinder.



Their new piston and cylinder contractor for the 461 is JxiangDxiang.


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 13, 2013)

Jacob J. said:


> Their new piston and cylinder contractor for the 461 is JxiangDxiang.



I like Asian stuff.


----------



## young (Feb 13, 2013)

fyi, my cousin made that jug.


----------



## young (Feb 13, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> I like Asian stuff.



what he meant was, he likes happy ending.


----------



## gsg (Feb 13, 2013)

young said:


> what he meant was, he likes happy ending.



I like asian stuff too but this one could use some big bore jugs!


----------



## Rudolf73 (Feb 13, 2013)

gsg said:


> I like asian stuff too but this one could use some big bore jugs!



Nothing wrong with a pair of aftermarket jugs :msp_rolleyes:

Don't get the cheap no-name brands though...


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 13, 2013)

Ain't nothing wrong with those jugs. I'd test and tune on em anytime.......anytime at all.


----------



## gsg (Feb 13, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Ain't nothing wrong with those jugs. I'd test and tune on em anytime.......anytime at all.



Looks like they should be tuned in the wood


----------



## northmanlogging (Feb 13, 2013)

to answer the tramp, had my stock 461 in some 30"+ doug fir recenctly side by side with the old 046, boths saws running 32" skip tooths... 461 beat the snot out of it all day long and used about half the fuel, 461 still not quite broke in yet but to me pulls harder than some of the older 066-660s I've ran in the past...

I'm currently trying to con the war department into letting my have the 461 modded... (she keeps saying something about getting the crummy's tranny fixed or whatever...)


----------



## Trx250r180 (Feb 14, 2013)

northmanlogging said:


> to answer the tramp, had my stock 461 in some 30"+ doug fir recenctly side by side with the old 046, boths saws running 32" skip tooths... 461 beat the snot out of it all day long and used about half the fuel, 461 still not quite broke in yet but to me pulls harder than some of the older 066-660s I've ran in the past...
> 
> I'm currently trying to con the war department into letting my have the 461 modded... (she keeps saying something about getting the crummy's tranny fixed or whatever...)



Once modded you will lose fuel economy,i have 32 inch bar oiler wide open,a tank of fuel to little over half a tank of oil , they are much louder than modded 460 also


----------



## whitedogone (Feb 14, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> My wife picked this up for me while I was gone.....





Mastermind said:


> I like Asian stuff.



Mastermind's wife walks in room.....sees screen.....grabs saw....leaves. :angry2:


----------



## thomas1 (Feb 14, 2013)

whitedogone said:


> Mastermind's wife walks in room.....sees screen.....thanks God it's a full size, human female this time....leaves.



Fixed.


----------



## tramp bushler (Feb 14, 2013)

Alright ; sounds good. I don't know about using less oil. I wish the made the oil tank twice as big on saws and the oil pumps twice as powerful.


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 14, 2013)

tramp bushler said:


> Alright ; sounds good. I don't know about using less oil. I wish the made the oil tank twice as big on saws and the oil pumps twice as powerful.



It doesn't use less oil.........just more fuel once ported.


----------



## Arbonaut (Feb 14, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> I like Asian stuff.



No problem with the sideways balance on it.


----------



## Trx250r180 (Feb 14, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> It doesn't use less oil.........just more fuel once ported.



now do you have an answer how to get this stupid grin off my face when im cutting with a ported 461 ?


----------



## Trx250r180 (Feb 14, 2013)

tramp bushler said:


> Alright ; sounds good. I don't know about using less oil. I wish the made the oil tank twice as big on saws and the oil pumps twice as powerful.



the 461 wrap has the same oil pump as 460 and 660 wrap high output ,the oil tank holds a little more than a 460 though ,my ported 461 is worse on fuel than my 460 but better on fuel than my 660 if that helps ,its not far off my 660 though


----------



## tramp bushler (Feb 14, 2013)

OK. How many minetus are you getting on a tank of fuel when Fallin, limbing+ buckin. ??


----------



## tramp bushler (Feb 14, 2013)

OK. How many minutes are you guys getting on a tank when fallin limbin +buckin? ?
Does Weber make a full wrap handle bar for the 461 ??


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 14, 2013)

trx250r180 said:


> now do you have an answer how to get this stupid grin off my face when im cutting with a ported 461 ?



They're slower than a 460, or so I read on the internets......why would you be grinning?


----------



## Eccentric (Feb 14, 2013)

tramp bushler said:


> Alright ; sounds good. I don't know about using less oil. I wish they made the oil tank twice as big on saws and the oil pumps twice as powerful.



+1


......and I also wish they'd incorporate a real honest-to-God manual oil pump.


----------



## Trx250r180 (Feb 14, 2013)

tramp bushler said:


> OK. How many minetus are you getting on a tank of fuel when Fallin, limbing+ buckin. ??



kind of depends ,cedars have lots of limbs ,fir doesnt maybe 20 min avg ,if bucking rounds for firewood maybe 10 , 1 tank of fuel i was getting about 20 feet of fir firewood bucked 20-24 inch or so wood 16 inch lengths , depending how big the wood is ,its pretty close to my stock 660 with dual port and inner baffle removed for economy ,i never ran it stock so i cant say how stock econmy is ,im not a logger so dont run it all day ,just use around my property ,i let a couple fallers try it that swear by 440 and 660 saws still ,they liked the tourque this had for the saw size and they had a smile on their face cutting with it

on the handle if they make one for a 460 ,its the same handle


----------



## thomas1 (Feb 14, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> They're slower than a 460, or so I read on the internets......why would you be grinning?



I read where one of the foremost experts, on judging torque by sound, said they were down on rpm's. He has a video of one demonstrating how the throttle works, so I would tend to believe him.


----------



## Trx250r180 (Feb 14, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> They're slower than a 460, or so I read on the internets......why would you be grinning?



i think they are only slower in rotten pine ,but what do i know


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 14, 2013)

trx250r180 said:


> kind of depends ,cedars have lots of limbs ,fir doesnt maybe 20 min avg ,if bucking rounds for firewood maybe 10 , 1 tank of fuel i was getting about 20 feet of fir firewood bucked 20-24 inch or so wood 16 inch lengths , depending how big the wood is ,its pretty close to my stock 660 with dual port and inner baffle removed for economy ,i never ran it stock so i cant say how stock econmy is ,im not a logger so dont run it all day ,just use around my property ,i let a couple fallers try it that swear by 440 and 660 saws still ,they liked the tourque this had for the saw size and they had a smile on their face cutting with it
> 
> on the handle if they make one for a 460 ,its the same handle



Have you ran the hybrid much yet?

Oh.......I got the remmy today. That's a sweet old bar!!!


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 14, 2013)

thomas1 said:


> I read where one of the foremost experts, on judging torque by sound, said they were down on rpm's. He has a video of one demonstrating how the throttle works, *so I would tend to believe him*.



You ain't the only one......and therein lies the rub. :msp_sad:


----------



## thomas1 (Feb 14, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Have you ran the hybrid much yet?
> 
> Oh.......I got the remmy today. That's a sweet old bar!!!



Super 990?


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 14, 2013)

thomas1 said:


> Super 990?



Super 754


----------



## Jacob J. (Feb 14, 2013)

thomas1 said:


> Super 990?



The Super 990 is on its' way to the west coast, where it belongs.


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 14, 2013)

Jacob J. said:


> The Super 990 is on its' way to the west coast, *where it belongs.*



Bite your hillbilly tongue. :msp_angry:



I got Greg's saw......I ain't opened it but the package is unscathed.


----------



## Jacob J. (Feb 14, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Bite your hillbilly tongue. :msp_angry:
> 
> 
> 
> I got Greg's saw......I ain't opened it but the package is unscathed.



I wrapped it tightly so the dead kittens wouldn't make a stink on the way out there.


----------



## Trx250r180 (Feb 14, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Have you ran the hybrid much yet?
> 
> Oh.......I got the remmy today. That's a sweet old bar!!!



its dark after work ,i need some firewood so im gonna try it out this weekend 
see how she does with 32 inch bar View attachment 279192
View attachment 279193
these filter covers are good add on for these saws also 


thats the original remmy bar ,if look close the remington logo is on it still ,i never started it ,guy i got it from said it ran 

i also found another 404 chain looks like 36 inch bar one ,ill pop it in the mail


----------



## thomas1 (Feb 14, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Super 754



Those are neat too, I have some.


----------



## thomas1 (Feb 14, 2013)

trx250r180 said:


> its dark after work ,i need some firewood so im gonna try it out this weekend
> see how she does with 32 inch bar View attachment 279192
> View attachment 279193
> these filter covers are good add on for these saws also
> ...



Does the logo look like this?







Your logo may be a little smaller, I don't know if they made the logos bigger on the 52" bars, like I have. oke:


----------



## Jacob J. (Feb 14, 2013)

tramp bushler said:


> OK. How many minutes are you guys getting on a tank when fallin limbin +buckin? ?
> Does Weber make a full wrap handle bar for the 461 ??



I thought Weber made headers?


----------



## thomas1 (Feb 14, 2013)

Jacob J. said:


> I thought Weber made headers?



Carbs.


----------



## Jacob J. (Feb 14, 2013)

thomas1 said:


> Carbs.



Those too, and manifolds for certain older Asian engines.


----------



## Jacob J. (Feb 14, 2013)

thomas1 said:


> Your logo may be a little smaller, I don't know if they made the logos bigger on the 52" bars, like I have. oke:



Allegedly.


----------



## thomas1 (Feb 14, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Oh.......I got the remmy today. That's a sweet old bar!!!



You can't really see the logo in this picture of my Super 990. The light was fading and I was having a hard time getting a good shot of the 52" bar w/ the helper handle. I'm not sure if it was the glare off of the Super 990 power head or maybe a reflection of of the 52" bar? Maybe it was because of the helper handle at the end of the 52" roller nose bar on my Super 990?


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 14, 2013)

I'll just whip this out right here....


----------



## Trx250r180 (Feb 14, 2013)

well does it run ?


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 14, 2013)

trx250r180 said:


> well does it run ?



Hell, who knows? :msp_unsure:

I ain't got time to mess with it.......Jon has an 088, 066, and a 064 on his bench. I reckon some day....


----------



## thomas1 (Feb 14, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> I'll just whip this out right here....



I'll have to measure mine later, it was cold when I took that picture.


----------



## Jacob J. (Feb 14, 2013)

thomas1 said:


> You can't really see the logo in this picture of my Super 990. The light was fading and I was having a hard time getting a good shot of the 52" bar w/ the helper handle. I'm not sure if it was the glare off of the Super 990 power head or maybe a reflection of of the 52" bar? Maybe it was because of the helper handle at the end of the 52" roller nose bar on my Super 990?



Is that a Christopher Cross CD in the CD organizer on your visor?


----------



## thomas1 (Feb 14, 2013)

Jacob J. said:


> Is that a Christopher Cross CD in the CD organizer on your visor?



Close, it's Kriss Kross. It makes me wanna jump, jump.


----------



## Stihlofadeal64 (Feb 14, 2013)

All I can say is in the original photo at the beginning of the thread you can see the "koolness" of our one and only Mastermoob. Only he would use a cotton T shirt as the one and only fitting background for these pictures of the MS461. Which is to say to one and all -- at the sound of the chant: 






You are DAH MAN!


----------



## northmanlogging (Feb 14, 2013)

tramp bushler said:


> OK. How many minutes are you guys getting on a tank when fallin limbin +buckin? ?
> Does Weber make a full wrap handle bar for the 461 ??



not much buck'n on the last project, (some other lackey got that job...) but lots of swamping brush if that counts, 45 mins around half tank falling 30-36" Dougs. ran out of trees to fall... didn't fill er up again until the next day, but did some limbing and bucking in the meantime. (mostly sat my arse on the skidder and laughed at the kids pulling string...) so Probably around an hour to an hour and a half with lots of idle time... did that help?

The 3/4 wrap is Identical to the old 046-460's as well as dogs, chain cover, air filter. etc etc etc so I would imagine the weber full wrap would be a straight bolt on


----------



## Trx250r180 (Feb 14, 2013)

I tried my 460 four point dogs on the 461, the outer dog is a little different


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 14, 2013)

trx250r180 said:


> I tried my 460 four point dogs on the 461, the outer dog is a little



Yeah the 461 uses a different inner dog....


----------



## young (Feb 14, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Yeah the 461 uses a different inner dog....



you got it backward you backwood chimp.

same inner, different outer.


----------



## Trx250r180 (Feb 14, 2013)

I posted pics of differences in thead 461 falling dogs


----------



## Mastermind (Feb 14, 2013)

young said:


> you got it backward you backwood chimp.
> 
> same inner, different outer.



Par for the course for me. :msp_biggrin:


----------



## northmanlogging (Feb 15, 2013)

huh... think I would have noticed... doesn't really matter its a better saw from the word go... dogs can be fixed with a dremel, or a leash...


----------



## tramp bushler (Feb 15, 2013)

OK. Great. Thanks. So probably looking at at least 45 minutes. Thats good.


----------



## jockeydeuce (Apr 5, 2013)

Mastermind said:


>



Randy

Did you grind that edge of the lower transfer on the bore side, as low below the deck surface as it looks in this pic??

I've got a 461 apart on the bench and I'm scratching my head a bit on "the plan".


----------



## thomas1 (Apr 5, 2013)

I think Randy is in a chicken truck, on his way to Va.

Are you talking about the actual edge of the bore or the divider in the transfer port?


----------



## jockeydeuce (Apr 5, 2013)

thomas1 said:


> I think Randy is in a chicken truck, on his way to Va.
> 
> Are you talking about the actual edge of the bore or the divider in the transfer port?



Isn't there mobile service in a chicken truck....lol

I'm talking about the edge of the bore.....On 372's etc., in the Husky line up, we usually take that edge down to about flush with the deck and blend it all in, but this 461 starts out flush and Randy's pic looks like he took it a fair bit below the deck?


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 7, 2013)

jockeydeuce said:


> Randy
> 
> Did you grind that edge of the lower transfer on the bore side, as low below the deck surface as it looks in this pic??
> 
> I've got a 461 apart on the bench and I'm scratching my head a bit on "the plan".



It's still flush Rob. After shaving the base I thinned it is all.


----------



## jockeydeuce (Apr 7, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> It's still flush Rob. After shaving the base I thinned it is all.



Thanks!

Pretty low intake #'s in this one.......I deleted the gasket (Had to take a tiny cut off the piston to feel comfortable), and it's still 145 on the intake.....I don't want to change much else on this one. Just a little widening.


----------



## Mastermind (Apr 7, 2013)

jockeydeuce said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Pretty low intake #'s in this one.......I deleted the gasket (Had to take a tiny cut off the piston to feel comfortable), and it's still 145 on the intake.....I don't want to change much else on this one. Just a little widening.



You did the right thing IMHO. Making small changes is better than ending up with a torqueless turd. :msp_wink:


----------



## DarthTater (Apr 7, 2013)

*Wonders how well this would handle a 36" bar*:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## tramp bushler (Apr 8, 2013)

It would handle it great. But I wouldn't try to pull full comp chain with it. I would go 8 tooth full skip. Riders at 30 k.


----------



## deye223 (Apr 8, 2013)

tramp bushler said:


> It would handle it great. But I wouldn't try to pull full comp chain with it. I would go 8 tooth full skip. Riders at 30 k.



now I ain't no logger but I think the 8 pin is a bit ambitious for a 36" bar on any 76.5 cc saw


----------



## Trx250r180 (Apr 8, 2013)

it pulls a 32 fine with 7 pin,i can try a 36 sometime,i don't see why it wouldn't pull it


----------



## tramp bushler (Apr 8, 2013)

deye223 said:


> now I ain't no logger but I think the 8 pin is a bit ambitious for a 36" bar on any 76.5 cc saw



Any idea how many million board feet of timber I've fell and bucked with 046+460 Stihls that were stock with 8 tooth sprockets pulling 30-36" bars. It's a bunch. I was scared to try an 8 tooth at first . But then I did and never went back . The 460+461 aren't the saw if you are constantly cutting 34" of wood but for typical falling andbucking they are great. I was even running semi skip for a lot of the time and I prefer it . I run 8 tooth on my 372 Huskies also. A 7 tooth works OK but vibrates more.

And by and large I ain't no logger either. I'm a timber faller. 
Course I have done lots of loggin too.!! :msp_wink:


----------



## MCW (Apr 8, 2013)

tramp bushler said:


> Any idea how many million board feet of timber I've fell and bucked with 046+460 Stihls that were stock with 8 tooth sprockets pulling 30-36" bars. It's a bunch. I was scared to try an 8 tooth at first . But then I did and never went back . The 460+461 aren't the saw if you are constantly cutting 34" of wood but for typical falling andbucking they are great. I was even running semi skip for a lot of the time and I prefer it . I run 8 tooth on my 372 Huskies also. A 7 tooth works OK but vibrates more.
> 
> And by and large I ain't no logger either. I'm a timber faller.
> Course I have done lots of loggin too.!! :msp_wink:



Hey in Darren's defence he's probably forgotten the difference between the timber you fall and our good old Australian hardwood 
Skip on a 36" bar though is basically the same as non skip on a 24" bar so if your saw will pull an 8 tooth rim on a 24" bar with non skip and providing the oiler will keep up then skip with an 8 tooth rim on a 36" bar isn't a big deal.
My ported and pop upped 7900 will pull a 42" bar quite convincingly buried in hardwood with non skip but I'd toast the bar if I tried it for more than one cut.

As you mentioned if you had a 36" bar buried all day on a 70cc saw then it's probably not the ideal choice but for the odd cut here and there I don't see a problem.


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## fastLeo151 (Jul 1, 2013)

Does anyone know if there is an outer small bucking spike that matches the standard One it comes with? Any help would be great


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## Mastermind (Jul 1, 2013)

fastLeo151 said:


> Does anyone know if there is an outer small bucking spike that matches the standard One it comes with? Any help would be great



Contact Young.......he's got this all sorted out.


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## Trx250r180 (Jul 1, 2013)

metals406 may have some 4 points


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## fastLeo151 (Jul 1, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Contact Young.......he's got this all sorted out.



ill be contacting you after I get some fuel run through it, assuming I will get a day or two off... she needs ported.


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## Mastermind (Jul 1, 2013)

fastLeo151 said:


> ill be contacting you after I get some fuel run through it, assuming I will get a day or two off... she needs ported.



Get with me about July 12th.......I'm taking off for a few days.


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## fastLeo151 (Jul 1, 2013)

Will do, enjoy your trip!


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## singinwoodwackr (Jul 1, 2013)

MCW said:


> Not the best choice of words Randy...



KY Jelly - YouTube


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## young (Jul 1, 2013)

fastLeo151 said:


> Does anyone know if there is an outer small bucking spike that matches the standard One it comes with? Any help would be great



for future reference. 

no standard/small outer spike from stihl to match the stock half wrap inner, metals might be able to fab one up.

wrap model dual spikes are available from stihl.

reason for this is no other saws share the same outer spike as the 461. inner are all the same.


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## Mastermind (Aug 26, 2013)

These things are freaks.......just had to fatten one up to a heavy blubber to get it down to 14,200. It was still four stroking hard at 15,200..... :msp_sneaky:


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## deye223 (Aug 26, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> These things are freaks.......just had to fatten one up to a heavy blubber to get it down to 14,200. It was still four stroking hard at 15,200..... :msp_sneaky:



mate take a vid it sounds like it would kick a 460 but


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## Mastermind (Aug 26, 2013)

deye223 said:


> mate take a vid it sounds like it would kick a 460 but



Working on that now....


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## deye223 (Aug 26, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Working on that now....



opcorn:opcorn:

does it have the torque of the 461 or did it lose it with the RPM


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## Mastermind (Aug 26, 2013)

Max RPM on the tach says 15,559. I was a bit too lean at that RPM though. 

[video=youtube;pVY0mWw6qBw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVY0mWw6qBw[/video]


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## deye223 (Aug 26, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Max RPM on the tach says 15,559. I was a bit too lean at that RPM though.
> 
> [video=youtube;pVY0mWw6qBw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVY0mWw6qBw[/video]



as young would say damn chimp that vid is private


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## Mastermind (Aug 26, 2013)

deye223 said:


> opcorn:opcorn:
> 
> does it have the torque of the 461 or did it lose it with the RPM



I've not got any thing here that would test this saw. Let's just say I've been tweaking the timing numbers a little at a time to get here. 

This is number 15 or 16 I've done......they are stronger than ever.


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## Mastermind (Aug 26, 2013)

deye223 said:


> as young would say damn chimp that vid is private



No.....Young would say "stupid chimp". 

Try this one. 

[video=youtube;pVY0mWw6qBw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVY0mWw6qBw[/video]


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## deye223 (Aug 26, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> I've not got any thing here that would test this saw. Let's just say I've been tweaking the timing numbers a little at a time to get here.
> 
> This is number 15 or 16 I've done......they are stronger than ever.



i wonder if it would beat the 460 you did for me that saw is very strong for a 460 pulls a 32' in our woods no probs
and a stock one has trouble with a 25"


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## luckydad (Aug 26, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> I've not got any thing here that would test this saw. Let's just say I've been tweaking the timing numbers a little at a time to get here.
> 
> This is number 15 or 16 I've done......they are stronger than ever.



Can you tweak mine a little more it ain't fast enough !!:msp_scared::msp_biggrin:


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## Mastermind (Aug 26, 2013)

deye223 said:


> i wonder if it would beat the 460 you did for me that saw is very strong for a 460 pulls a 32' in our woods no probs
> and a stock one has trouble with a 25"



Tough to say. As you know I tend to build saws for torque over RPM. I had this one tuned with the limited coil, swapped the coil and stuck a tach on it and said "holy ####".....


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## Mastermind (Aug 26, 2013)

luckydad said:


> Can you tweak mine a little more it ain't fast enough !!:msp_scared::msp_biggrin:



Sure.....No problem.


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## luckydad (Aug 26, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Sure.....No problem.



You know I don't even reach for the 660 anymore. Those 461 are the stuff !!


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## Mastermind (Aug 26, 2013)

luckydad said:


> You know I don't even reach for the 660 anymore. Those 461 are the stuff !!



Yeah......I just grab a 372. :msp_sneaky:

I can't afford a 461. :bang:


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## luckydad (Aug 26, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Yeah......I just grab a 372. :msp_sneaky:
> 
> I can't afford a 461. :bang:



Yea I here yea talken !!


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## young (Aug 26, 2013)

why you messing with a limited coil. you got one with an unlimited.


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## Mastermind (Aug 26, 2013)

young said:


> why you messing with a limited coil. you got one with an unlimited.



It's a different saw?


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## Trx250r180 (Aug 26, 2013)

ahh these will get kicked to the curb when the 461c is out


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## Mastermind (Aug 26, 2013)

Trx250r180 said:


> ahh these will get kicked to the curb when the 461c is out



Did you get that Hybrid yet?


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## Trx250r180 (Aug 26, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> Did you get that Hybrid yet?



not yet ,says on truck ,out for delivery today though


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## Mastermind (Aug 26, 2013)

Trx250r180 said:


> not yet ,says on truck ,out for delivery today though



I ain't got a clue how it might run.......the fingers did make it need more fuel tuned in though.


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## Metals406 (Sep 2, 2013)

Mastermind said:


> I ain't got a clue how it might run.......the fingers did make it need more fuel tuned in though.



Fingers make more flow, no doubt about that!


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## Trx250r180 (Jan 19, 2018)

Bump to the top for the old days .


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## Mastermind Worksaws (Jan 19, 2018)

Good old days for sure Brian.


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