# Just picked up a set of spikes...how to learn to use them



## Diesel JD (Dec 22, 2005)

Hey guys...now before you all worry, I have climbed some before...with rope only so I do know how to get down and I'm not completely ignorant....also not going to go use these on living trees or go to work as a hack, just want to learn and have a few dead/dying poles I can work with. It is obvious from the nature of these things that you can hurt yourself if you mess up. other than being tied in at all times and going low and slow is there anything else to observe to make this safe(er). Thanks


----------



## skwerl (Dec 22, 2005)

Keep your knees out and don't hug the tree like a koala bear. If you're hugging the tree then you can't get a good angle and you WILL kick out. When climbing up a spar, use your lanyard/flipline and lean back on it a bit, keeping your body away from the trunk. On a smooth spar I keep both hands on my lanyard so I can flip it up the tree. KEEP YOUR KNEES OUT and step/kick with the side of your foot. Make sure you have a solid bite with one gaff before pulling the other out. Once you have a solid step, you have to trust it and step up so you can take another solid step. 

Always tied in, PPE, helmet, witness, blah blah blah...

If your nuts are against the tree, you WILL kick out! Hold yourself out away from the tree!


----------



## gumneck (Dec 23, 2005)

Also, practice working around the pole/tree. Not just going up and down. Sometimes its more comfortable to keep one leg bent at the knee and the other leg partially locked out(just my pref sometimes while I'm stopped/cutting). Make sure you have the right spikes for the right tree. Pole spikes in thick pine bark will give you a nice kickout and a raw chin.

Have fun.


----------



## daveyclimber (Dec 23, 2005)

Like said before , knees out , dont hug the tree , keep the gaffs sharpened at the correct angles . Don't overly kick in cause it will wear you down to pull your gaff out .


----------



## RedlineIt (Dec 23, 2005)

DieselJD,

When you go to practice, low and slow, gaff-out on purpose so that you learn to master "the recovery stroke" before it happens for real way up some tall spar.

Start, as always with some stretches. This ones a groin buster.

You'll have slid down the pole a ways, your face, gut and balls are now all in intimate contact with the pole. I prefer the taste of fir trees. Hike one knee up to push your hips out a bit from the pole. "Whip" your free leg out from the hip, then up and in from the knee in a kinda Michael Jacksonish Thriller Video move. Don't Hit Your Other Knee! The whip action should be enough to stick your spur back into the pole so that you can begin to stand up a bit and get your other spur in quickly.

Everyone elses advice is spot-on!

Also, you need sturdy boots with a good heel, and steel shanked soles, or your feet will begin to hurt within a short time.

Good Luck!


----------



## woodchux (Dec 23, 2005)

Get yourself a throw ball, 
set a line up in a crotch.
Pull up a good climbing rope.
Have a buddy spot you on the way up,
just incase you gaff out !
Practice ,practice, practice
Be carefull ...That's YOUR a$$ up there


----------



## Diesel JD (Dec 24, 2005)

Thanks guys, I will do it that way....
J.D.


----------



## skwerl (Dec 24, 2005)

Keep your nuts away from the trunk and keep your knees out. you'll get the hang of it quick.


----------



## Eagle1 (Dec 24, 2005)

And be careful climbing up the "dead" pole.


----------



## Mr_Brushcutter (Dec 24, 2005)

If you've got someone to climb with who can use spikes get them to go up first and set up a pully so you can have a belay system set up. Make sure they know how to do a pole rescue. 

I do 4 steps to one flip of the line, you can put a double wrap in your flip line round the trunk for a bit more security, i like to have a second line to flip as well for a bit of extra safety. Keep your body away from the trunk - lean back. 

Most importantly don't gaff the life line!


----------



## Davidsinatree (Dec 24, 2005)

JD,
What kind of gaffs did you pick up. There are some brands that kick out more that others. I prefer the kliens because they have never kicked out and if you have to be real close to the tree they still dont kick out because of the angle of the gaffs.
Also watch where you are placing your gaffs so not to spike your rope, I've done that a few times and its totally preventable by not getting in a hurry.
Be safe.
Bark can also peal loose from dying trees as you climb them, be sure to set your gaffs.


----------



## Koa Man (Dec 24, 2005)

I also like Kleins. I've used Bashlins, Buckinghams and Stringer-Brooks. IMO Kleins have the best gaff design, Stringer-Brooks the worst.


----------



## Diesel JD (Dec 24, 2005)

Brooks....they looked like a good entry level set.....the poles are not that dead...just topped out by the hurricane or recently dropped their leaves. About the boots, will a good set of GI army surplus boots be good for this? they are made by Altama and come up to my shin about halfway,
Thanks


----------



## Diesel JD (Dec 24, 2005)

Brooks....they looked like a good entry level set.....the poles are not that dead...just topped out by the hurricane or recently dropped their leaves. About the boots, will a good set of GI army surplus boots be good for this? they are made by Altama and come up to my shin about halfway,
Thanks


----------



## skwerl (Dec 24, 2005)

When I was younger, boots didn't matter so much. Anything with enough of a heel lip to prevent the gaffs from sliding back worked just fine. But all my weight (no wiseass cracks here) bearing on the arch of my foot got less tolerable as I got older. Now I'm using $200 mountaineering boots and if I wear gaffs with my lightweight boots it hurts like heck after 10-15 minutes. 

Basically, anything with a sturdy sole and enough heel lip to hold the gaff will work. Eventually you may look for boots with a steel shank to distribute your weight off your arch.


----------



## rahtreelimbs (Dec 24, 2005)

skwerl said:


> When I was younger, boots didn't matter so much. Anything with enough of a heel lip to prevent the gaffs from sliding back worked just fine. But all my weight (no wiseass cracks here) bearing on the arch of my foot got less tolerable as I got older. Now I'm using $200 mountaineering boots and if I wear gaffs with my lightweight boots it hurts like heck after 10-15 minutes.
> 
> Basically, anything with a sturdy sole and enough heel lip to hold the gaff will work. Eventually you may look for boots with a steel shank to distribute your weight off your arch.




Exactly, this makes all the difference. No more shanks digger into the ankles.

Best advice I was ever given......" keep yur ass out"!!!


----------



## BlueRidgeMark (Dec 24, 2005)

Diesel JD said:


> About the boots, will a good set of GI army surplus boots be good for this? they are made by Altama and come up to my shin about halfway,
> Thanks



I wouldn't recommend it. While I haven't climbed with spikes, I've climbed a few radio towers. You spend a lot of time putting your weight on metal bars that are, in most cases, WIDER than the stirrup of climbing spikes. The pressure on your arch is more concentrated with spikes. But even on towers, with wimpy boots (like Army boots) my arch gets sore after not very long. Those Army boots are NOT very good boots. 

Remember, Army boots were designed by a committee and produced by the lowest bidder.  

You need something with some REAL support.


----------



## woodchux (Dec 24, 2005)

Another good practice is to have two lanyards.
Climb up to the limbs and hook one above the branch before unhooking the other. Always have one clipped in. I like to use a steel core.


----------



## ABOVE & BEYOND (Dec 29, 2005)

RedlineIt said:


> DieselJD,
> 
> You'll have slid down the pole a ways, your face, gut and balls are now all in intimate contact with the pole. I prefer the taste of fir trees. Hike one knee up to push your hips out a bit from the pole. "Whip" your free leg out from the hip, then up and in from the knee in a kinda Michael Jacksonish Thriller Video move. Don't Hit Your Other Knee! The whip action should be enough to stick your spur back into the pole so that you can begin to stand up a bit and get your other spur in quickly.
> 
> ...


----------



## Diesel JD (Dec 29, 2005)

Seems like gaffing out, whether on purpose or by accident would be really scary...I don't know about videos...how is it going with getting the hang of it?


----------



## clearance (Dec 30, 2005)

Gaffing out is only scary when you are free climbing, done it before a couple of times. As far as gaffing out when your steelcore is around the tree, it is no big deal if you are just climbing and not running a saw. You will spur back in after a couple of feet as long as you are climbing properly (like people have told you here). When you are pushing of the top with one hand and one hand on your 020, make sure that your spurs are stomped in real good.


----------



## Diesel JD (Jan 3, 2006)

*update...*

Today I got them and strapped them on for the first time. I was just messing around adn I have to say, it's definitely not as erasy as it looks. It seems like they do not really want to bite in enough to trust them. How do I know if it is my technique or if the gaffs need sharpening/replacement? They definitely are the long gaffs for trees, not the little stubby ones for utility poles. Further similar question...how do you sharpen the gaffs? And last question...I had them strapped as close as possible to the heel of my boots...should they be there or closer to the arch? Thanks,
J.D.


----------



## skwerl (Jan 3, 2006)

First off, NEVER walk around on the ground (especially concrete) while wearing your gaffs. Treat the sharp gaffs just as you would your chainsaw teeth. It only takes one or two steps on concrete to trash the point. 

Two, go to Sherrill or Bailey's and look up gaff maintenance tools. You need a file guide and flat file. It will contain detailed instructions on maintaining the gaff point. Basically you always file from the inside edge and maintain the same profile. 

Three, the climbers should ride in the arch of your foot, locked against the heel of your boot. This is why you need a boot with a defined heel. You can't wear them over sneakers or Topsiders.


----------



## Diesel JD (Jan 3, 2006)

Yeah I knew the thing about not abusing the gaffs, but it needed to be said. I was rereading the posts about what kind of boots were acceptable...and I see I was being an idiot by putting them on my heel. That may be the entire problem. I'll see what sorta stuff they have at Bailey's for gaff maintenance and try again tomorrow with the spikes mounted correctly. Thanks Brian,
J.D.


----------



## kf_tree (Jan 4, 2006)

boots like these are pretty much all i wear, is long as there is a little heel they will stay put. i only sharpen them about once or twice a year with a flat file while their locked in a vice. as long as your on a vertical stick or with the lean and you gaff out you'll be fine. the gaff's will find a home. it's when your on the back side of the lean that you can get hurt.

last summer i was on the backside of a lean only because i didn't want to waiste time moving my rope through a crotch. and i slipped on a smooth bark tree. i dropped about 10 feet till my lanyard caught a crotch. i instinctively wrapped my arm around the tree and burned the crap out of the inside of my arm..........that'll learn me.


----------



## Diesel JD (Jan 4, 2006)

Thanks...how long will a set of gaffs last(see my related question in teh pro forum about Brooks gaffs) if properly maintained and not walked on concrete of while you're on the ground. I did a little better today until I broke one of the leather straps..so i have to wait for my new ones to get here before I get back to messing with it. I see why you all say this is a bad practice for use on living trees...they tear the bark to pieces.


----------



## Diesel JD (Jan 8, 2006)

*update*

Thanks to all for the advice. I have been playing at this spiking thing for a few days..every climb I've been a little more successful. I haven't been over 10 feet off the ground with spikes yet, and I have managed to gaff out a couple of times, and even had a gaffe with my gaffs, by falling flat on my arse! But thankfully only from 5'up. I have a new level of respect for you guys who work with these things...it ain't as easy as it looks. My biggest concern as it were is neutering myself getting the family jewels in intimate contact with the spar , or going high before I am really ready. I have a healthy respect of this....I know what high is from rope climbing...and I really don't want to fall from those heights...so the second is unlikely(I hope) but the first...I really don't want to be neutered... so thanks for the advice..and keep it coming, but I'm going to take it slow and make sure I know what I'm doing before I start doing anything more,
J.D.


----------



## Stumper (Jan 8, 2006)

JD. Set a line above you with a traditional DdRt system and take up slack as you climb-falling becomes impossible-(slipping still sucks the hairy moose lips) If you are on a pole or something that precludes shooting a line above you then climb with a full wrap on the pole with your lanyard-agaffing out will still make your heart go pitter patter but you wont actually fall.


----------



## Diesel JD (Jan 8, 2006)

Stumper...most of my stuff is true pole...no limbs wortha darn. They were the only trees I would butcher liek this...dead or on teh way out. One or two poles around her ethough have decent limb structure and are dead so I will set a line in those when I get ready to go higher. Already tie in witha lanyard before climbing, although I have cheated once or twice since I didn't thinka fall from 5-10 feet would cause my death or disability. Thanks for the advice,
J.D.


----------



## BlackenedTimber (Jan 10, 2006)

as far as boots go, Georgia Loggers have been by best experience. I had a pair rebuilt while i was working in Texas, and they gentleman who rebuilt them said they were the toughest boots he'd ever worked on in his 35 years of bookmaking and repair. Though a little pricey, they definately have been better suited and lasted longer than any other brand that i've used.


----------



## BlackenedTimber (Jan 10, 2006)

also, I worked as a groundie for a guy years ago who climbed with a timber hitch tied around the trunk and attatched to the center D of his saddle. he took a spill once, and fell only about 2 feet, rather than 50+, until the hitch caught and stopped him. I have climbed like this a couple of times, when I thouht it appropriate for the situation. I guess it only works well out here on the east coast, I dont know how it would work moving the hitch up and down those monsters out on the west coast...


----------



## kf_tree (Jan 10, 2006)

BlackenedTimber

what size are you? i have a pair of georgia boot's i only used for 2 weeks that i want to sell cheap, there size 12.
 ken


----------



## BlackenedTimber (Jan 10, 2006)

close but no cigar ken, Im a 13EEE. I take it you dont prefer the georgia's?


----------



## BlackenedTimber (Jan 10, 2006)

ken, i just realized you in orange county, NY. I have offices in Sullivan and Rockland counties, north and south of you. Huh, were probly stepping all over each other's toes...


----------



## Stumper (Jan 10, 2006)

BlackenedTimber said:


> bookmaking and repair.



Your Freudian slip is showing.


----------



## kf_tree (Jan 10, 2006)

BlackenedTimber said:


> ken, i just realized you in orange county, NY. I have offices in Sullivan and Rockland counties, north and south of you. Huh, were probly stepping all over each other's toes...



i prefer to climb i hiking boot's i just find them more comfortable. high heels are for chic's . i do the commute and work in the city. do you do much land clearing? i'm looking for soft wood, pine or poplar like 8-9in stuff but straight stuff like forest tree's to practice triple cuts for competition's. i'll come and pick it up if you could tell me where your working.

thanks
ken


----------



## Diesel JD (Jan 10, 2006)

kf-sebd me an IM and tell me how much you want for those Georgia Loggers, might be interested. I'm in around that size range.


----------



## kf_tree (Jan 10, 2006)

Diesel JD said:


> kf-sebd me an IM and tell me how much you want for those Georgia Loggers, might be interested. I'm in around that size range.



i sent you a pm, here are some pics, a little oil and they will look new again.


----------

