# fliplines, what are there uses?



## markct (May 11, 2009)

so i understand that fliplines are to hold you in position in the tree, but do they have other ways to be used than just around the tree right in front of you like when using spikes? reason i ask is that is seems they wouldnt sell them in lengths of like 18ft if they were just to use around a tree right in front of you unless you would be climbing a tree about 5 ft in dia, so i wonded are they also used to move around in the tree, like anchor to a crotch above you and with 8 ft of loop out you could move around some yet stull be securely hung in place? kinda like ya do with the loop of rope in double rope climbing. or are thse long lengths just for big trees. also is the term lanyard and flipline interchangable or is there a difference in use or construction? right now i often use a length of rope that i can clip around and back to my harness to keep me from falling outa the tree, actualy i have two so i can stay attached even as i move around stuff. was kinda thinking i liked the safety of a wire core flipline but not sure of there use and limitations exactly


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## canopyboy (May 11, 2009)

markct said:


> so i understand that fliplines are to hold you in position in the tree, but do they have other ways to be used than just around the tree right in front of you like when using spikes? reason i ask is that is seems they wouldnt sell them in lengths of like 18ft if they were just to use around a tree right in front of you unless you would be climbing a tree about 5 ft in dia, so i wonded are they also used to move around in the tree, like anchor to a crotch above you and with 8 ft of loop out you could move around some yet stull be securely hung in place? kinda like ya do with the loop of rope in double rope climbing. or are thse long lengths just for big trees. also is the term lanyard and flipline interchangable or is there a difference in use or construction? right now i often use a length of rope that i can clip around and back to my harness to keep me from falling outa the tree, actualy i have two so i can stay attached even as i move around stuff. was kinda thinking i liked the safety of a wire core flipline but not sure of there use and limitations exactly



You'll probably find people who have found other ways to use them, but usually flip lines are stiff and even have a wire core and used only for hooking up the tree as far as I've seen. Long fliplines are really for bigger trees, and that's about it. I like my wire core when I'm using the saw in the tree as a safety precaution and because the stiffness "flips" up the bigger diameter trees easily. But I find it usually stays in the bag with the spikes if it isn't a full removal. I just use two tie-ins for the safety aspect.

I would also say that a flipline is a type of lanyard, but that the words aren't necessarily interchangeable. I usually think of lanyards the way you're describing alternate uses for a long flipline. Basically a short length of climbing line to secure yourself to part of the tree and allow you move around.


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## oldirty (May 11, 2009)

i run my flipline at about 15ft. rope. i use it as a second climbing line when the need arises. also good to have it long for a limbwalk and you use it on the branch above the one you are working to help keep a 2nd local to you tie in. 

flip line is definitely not just for around the trunk.


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## outofmytree (May 12, 2009)

markct said:


> so i understand that fliplines are to hold you in position in the tree, but do they have other ways to be used than just around the tree right in front of you like when using spikes? reason i ask is that is seems they wouldnt sell them in lengths of like 18ft if they were just to use around a tree right in front of you unless you would be climbing a tree about 5 ft in dia, so i wonded are they also used to move around in the tree, like anchor to a crotch above you and with 8 ft of loop out you could move around some yet stull be securely hung in place? kinda like ya do with the loop of rope in double rope climbing. or are thse long lengths just for big trees. also is the term lanyard and flipline interchangable or is there a difference in use or construction? right now i often use a length of rope that i can clip around and back to my harness to keep me from falling outa the tree, actualy i have two so i can stay attached even as i move around stuff. was kinda thinking i liked the safety of a wire core flipline but not sure of there use and limitations exactly



Flipline refers to the technique used to ascend vertically where you "flip" the rope, then step up in your spurs. A lanyard is a short length of rope used to secure something of value such as a chainsaw to your harness. Technicalities aside I use both terms for the same piece of equipment. 

Fliplines/lanyards can be homemade, custom made or factory made. 

Wire core lanyards are popular for their resistance to chainsaws (note resistance not proof!!!) and their rigidity. A stiffer lanyard is easier to work up a large diameter trunk with loose bark or multiple stubs. It should be noted that most countries have strict regulations as to how close you can work to power lines whilst using a wire core lanyard.

Rope lanyards are flexible and easy to coil making them a good choice for longer lengths which can be great for branch walking or rapid lateral moves. 

Custom made lanyards give you the most flexibility in length, diameter and materials but it is vital that the maker be skilled with rope. Personally, I know my limits and pay professionals to splice for me.

Have a flippin' good time!


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## tomtrees58 (May 12, 2009)

i climb with a 10' but have 20' to you need them four big wood tom trees


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## mic687 (May 12, 2009)

I use a 12' steel core filp line and a 14' 2 in 1 lanyard. The flip line I use only for what it was intended and the 2 in 1 as a second when cutting. I have found the 2 in 1 very useful for looping through a crotch to take weight off my legs and for moving around in tight locations. The only issue is it is almost impossible to adjust a 2 in 1 lanyard with one hand.


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## tree md (May 12, 2009)

I use a 12' wire core flipline and an 8' personal rope lanyard. I too consider a flipline a stiffer lanyard that you use to flip up the spar while climbing. I also use the term lanyard for both as well as the chainsaw lanyard or the like that I use to attach something to my saddle. I like the long flipline because I can often use it on a limb above me while limb walking like OD mentioned and you need one for large diameter trees. I like the rope lanyard because it is more flexible and can be used to take a wrap for stabilization near the top while positioning for cuts. I'll sometimes hook either my rope lanyard or flipline to one side of my saddle to hold me in a stable position when I need to lean out and make a cut. If you want to see an interesting use for a flipline do a search for "trunk walk" in the tree care videos forum.


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## pdqdl (May 13, 2009)

To answer the first question:

I was removing a dead pine once, and was obliged to walk out a ways on the limb to clear a wire. Getting somewhat nervous about the steep angle of my climbing line back to the TIP, I tossed my buckstrap/flipline/lanyard over the limb above me. Just prior to the branch breaking off beneath me!

Had I not been double tied, I would have been slammed back into the trunk pretty hard. (As it was, I still broke two ribs when the waist belt was lifted abruptly upward, chopping me hard in the short ribs)

That lanyard is great for a second tie in point, to triangulate your position for easy cutting, and to secure you with a re-direct when the climbing line doesn't work.

Lots of uses other than "right in front of you".


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## canopyboy (May 13, 2009)

After reading through some of the other posts, I wish I'd thought it through a bit more before posting previously.

I think the definition of lanyard is a short piece of rope (or string) used to hold something close. So in climbing, this would be something shorter than your regular climbing line that you use to hold yourself to a tree. And of course a lanyard is what holds your saw to you, etc, etc. They're everywhere in what we do. I also think that a flip line is a type of lanyard designed for a specific purpose. However, there is no reason you can't use it for more than just moving up the trunk of the tree. I'm not sure I would buy it in a longer length for that reason, as a short piece of climbing line may be better suited (and cheaper). But when you're up there, you use what you have.

To each his own preferences, just as long as you stay safe and can climb another day.


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## treeoperations (May 20, 2009)

outofmytree said:


> Flipline refers to the technique used to ascend vertically where you "flip" the rope, then step up in your spurs. A lanyard is a short length of rope used to secure something of value such as a chainsaw to your harness. Technicalities aside I use both terms for the same piece of equipment.
> 
> Fliplines/lanyards can be homemade, custom made or factory made.
> 
> ...





"Wire core lanyards are popular for their resistance to chainsaws"

wire cores are less resistant to chainsaws then a normal 12 strand, me and a fellow arborist set up a bit of expriment to see which was best and we found if your working on spikes and are making a back cut for example and you hit your wire core the saw just keeps on cutting but with rope the fibers get stuck in the saw and bog it so from what our little test found youve got more chance with a normal 12 strand rope my 2 cents


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## Tree Pig (May 20, 2009)

treeoperations said:


> "Wire core lanyards are popular for their resistance to chainsaws"
> 
> wire cores are less resistant to chainsaws then a normal 12 strand, me and a fellow arborist set up a bit of expriment to see which was best and we found if your working on spikes and are making a back cut for example and you hit your wire core the saw just keeps on cutting but with rope the fibers get stuck in the saw and bog it so from what our little test found youve got more chance with a normal 12 strand rope my 2 cents



So your saying the saw cut through the wire?


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## Raymond (May 20, 2009)

Maybe it's just me but I can't ever see using a wire filled flip line.

If I'm tied in with a flip line and something quickly goes wrong in the section I'm in, I wanna be able to cut myself free, if I had to fast. That's if I'm tied in with my rope in another lead.

Never needed to yet but may need to tomorrow. So what's the purpose of a wire line anyway? So you don't cut it accidentally? Call me crazy but I've made a habit to not do that anyway. One step at a time, one step at a time.


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## Raymond (May 20, 2009)

Raymond said:


> Maybe it's just me but I can't ever see using a wire filled flip line.
> 
> If I'm tied in with a flip line and something quickly goes wrong in the section I'm in, I wanna be able to cut myself free, if I had to fast. That's if I'm tied in with my rope in another lead.
> 
> Never needed to yet but may need to tomorrow. So what's the purpose of a wire line anyway? So you don't cut it accidentally? Call me crazy but I've made a habit to not do that anyway. One step at a time, one step at a time.


A stiff flip line could be handy for going up large trunks, I'll give ya that.


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## outofmytree (May 20, 2009)

I use wire cores in palms and have had the saw get pulled into the flipline after getting tangled up in some fibres.:jawdrop: 
The brake kicked in on contact but I still lost about 20% of the wire core. I believe a rope flipline would have parted in that same situation, especially because I sharpen my 200's every tank of fuel.

Of course not clipping the flipline would have been better! Damn that palm!


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## treeoperations (May 21, 2009)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> So your saying the saw cut through the wire?



it did rather easily which scared both of us there was a couple strands left but they didnt hold and our 90kg weight fell off the tree, we were using a husky 385 and we did a worse case senario where the saw cut it at 90 degrees as tho it was caught around some stubs of some sort.

it did destroy the chains beyond rescue


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## TheTreeSpyder (May 21, 2009)

They are also fair as a round turn around a spar, to walk straight up with spurs. If something goes wrong, the round turn will choke you off, even if you pass out. You can do a regular lanyard like this too, but more likely to hang up.


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## Blakesmaster (May 21, 2009)

I've got a 12 foot lanyard made from some old climb line and I use it for everything. If tip tying smaller branches, I'll occasionally butt-tie the end with my lanyard for more control. If I'm close to ground and I want a bigger saw for the last few blocks I'll hang my lanyard down and have a grondy clip another one on. I've also used it as a prussik for setting up a 3 to one with a pulley in the clips. I've been thinking of a steel core but double checking my lanyard position in the tree has become very important to me and I normally set up my cuts well away from it.


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## Fireaxman (May 21, 2009)

Raymond said:


> ... If I'm tied in with a flip line and something quickly goes wrong in the section I'm in, I wanna be able to cut myself free, if I had to fast.



I keep a short rope link or Spectra strap between my side D and my wire core so I can cut myself lose if needed.

I love the wire core. Stiffer, flips better, easier to adjust one handed; might not stop the 200 T at full power, but it will deflect a glancing blow or a nick from a saw that is idling down after a cut. And, its not just the 200 T you have to worry about. A Sugoi or any good sharp hand saw will cut (or weaken to breaking point) a rope lanyard in one stroke under the right (wrong?) conditions.

I use my 18 foot wire core flip line just like any auxiliary climbing line. In addition to what has already been suggested, I DdRT on it regularly to advance my initial tie in point.


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## Tree Pig (May 21, 2009)

treeoperations said:


> it did rather easily which scared both of us there was a couple strands left but they didnt hold and our 90kg weight fell off the tree, we were using a husky 385 and we did a worse case senario where the saw cut it at 90 degrees as tho it was caught around some stubs of some sort.
> 
> it did destroy the chains beyond rescue



good to know thanks nothing worse then a false sense of security. I guess that makes plan A (dont cut your lanyard) the one to stick with.


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## Fireaxman (May 21, 2009)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> good to know thanks nothing worse then a false sense of security. I guess that makes plan A (dont cut your lanyard) the one to stick with.



Plan A is indeed a very good one. But when my life is at risk, even if it is a very low risk, having a plan "B" still seems prudent.


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## treeoperations (May 22, 2009)

just check and re check everything to avoid have to use plan b, if you need to use plan b when in a tree im sorry but you shouldnt bloody be there, always have 2 tie ins as its your life up there


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## Fireaxman (May 22, 2009)

Stuff happens. And its not even necessarily the business end of the saw that poses the threat. I put my saw back on my utility clip after a particularly long cut on a live oak limb a few months ago. When I got ready to descend I put my right hand below my friction hitch to control my descent and felt something unusual. When I checked, my 12 strand had been melted through about 75%. It had caught on the hot exhaust of the 200T.

This from an OSHA report of the fatality of a cement worker who fell from 160 feet when his nylon safety lanyard failed. The lanyard had touched something hot and was partially melted. : "Recommendation #2: Personal protective equipment should be able to withstand the harshest conditions to which it may be subjected on any given job. 

Discussion: ... Many materials, including nylon, can be easily damaged in the presence of extreme heat. For this reason, nylon lanyards should not be used where they might be exposed to conditions that could include extreme heat; rather, steel mesh or wire core lanyards would have been more suitable. Personal protective equipment should be evaluated before being used on any job to ensure that it can withstand the harshest conditions to which it may be subjected without sustaining damage that would jeopardize the safety of a worker." 

OK, nobody makes a "Chain Saw Proof" lanyard. But protect yourself the best way you can. Saying a wire core lanyard provides a "False Sense of Security" from a chain saw is like saying a hard hat provides a false sense of security from a wrecking ball, or a "Bullet Proof Vest" provides a false sense of security from a BAR (Browning Automatic Rifle, .30-06), or a seat belt provides a "False Sense of Security" from a head on collision at 70 mph. The driver of the car might be doing nothing wrong. But unforeseen circumstance can put your life at risk even if you are qualified and careful. Thats why they call it an "... inherently dangerous" occupation.


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## beastmaster (May 24, 2009)

I use to make my own flip lines out of 3 strand rope, adding a 1/4in. cable in the middle. For really big trees I used 7/8 rope sometimes 21ft long. The heavy rope with the small cable made it easier to whip it as I gaffed up large pines. The rope has to be pretty flexible to get it to whip around a large tree. I know a saw could easily cut through the rope and cable if it took a direct hit at full rpm, but I saw a guy nick his rope one time and the three strand rope started unraveling leaving only the 1/4 cable. Im sure it was pretty un-nerving for the climber. A long flip line is a pain in the rear when your 110ft up and you have 18ft of rope hanging. These days I use a 6 ft lanyard along with my climbing line to stabilize my self while climbing, no cable.


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## Fireaxman (May 25, 2009)

beastmaster said:


> ... A long flip line is a pain in the rear when your 110ft up and you have 18ft of rope hanging. ....



Yes. And of course a wire core is too stiff to "Daisy Chain" to take up slack. I get around that problem by coiling the non-working end in a couple of loops then wrapping the eye around the loops and hanging it on a 'biner on my saddle. And, although I like and usually prefer the long wire core, I also have a 9 foot for smaller trees and as a alternate for bypassing limbs when I am on spurs.

The weight of the 18 foot wire core is its biggest detraction for me. But, of course, it weighs nothing wrapped around the tree, where I usually keep it.


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