# Estimated prices of logged trees?



## hickslawns (Aug 2, 2008)

I am new here and new to having any trees logged. I am looking at a property with 4 acres of woods. The woods is very thick and I want to have some of the trees logged out to help the long term health of the woods and return some of my investment into the property. Am I out of line in my thinking? Would logging out some of it help the health? Also, what can I expect for trees ($$$) in NW Ohio? A friend had this done 10-15 years ago and got $500-600 a tree. He said they had to be 20" diameter or bigger and no limbs the bottom 8 feet. Am I on track? Who would I contact to have them removed? What heading in the yellow pages to even look for? Thanks, Phil


----------



## hammerlogging (Aug 2, 2008)

What you need to do is take your time. Yes, your theories are likely correct. The land can only hold so much wood per acre so if you grow fewer bigger trees then your timber value will be higher than that of a less healthy "dog hair" stand. Sounds like on this harvest, residual timber protection (no scarring butt logs as stems are dragged out) is a priority. Next harvest you must consider regeneration but this one is to enhance the residual timber so regen is not an issue-- if it were you would need to get openmings where sunlight could hit the ground to regen your timber species. Anyhow, for a tract this small, your looking for a horse logger, tractor logger, something small and low operating cost, appropriate for these very short skids. Are there Amish around there? They seem to be in the logging/milling department more these days. Anyhow, search draft horses logging Ohio, for example. Ask your neighbors, ask some farmers. In the country, hell, sometimes it seems just about everyone, or at least their cousin, has done some logging. You want 1. directional felling, and 2. harvest planning, low impact, minimal residaul site and stand impact. You want a contract, including these quality control sttipluations.

As for the value of your timber, specties, diameter, etc. changes the value dramatically. you will have to discuss this with the folks you talk to in your area. Values are down right now for the most part, esp. red oak. cherry sounds like its still good, there's a big difference. remeber, if you're concerned about getting taken addvantage of, hire a "consulting forester" (insulting forester) but they may take all your money anyhow. You could always as a Dept. of Forestry person for a quick site visit. Before you hire a logger though, look at jobs they've done, and talk to the landowners they've served. Horses does not = low impact!!! Its the operator,anf the care they put in to it. Move slowly on this one. Your forest mgmt. intentions sound good, just take it easy.


----------



## RAS323 (Aug 2, 2008)

hickslawns said:


> I am new here and new to having any trees logged. I am looking at a property with 4 acres of woods. The woods is very thick and I want to have some of the trees logged out to help the long term health of the woods and return some of my investment into the property. Am I out of line in my thinking? Would logging out some of it help the health? Also, what can I expect for trees ($$$) in NW Ohio? A friend had this done 10-15 years ago and got $500-600 a tree. He said they had to be 20" diameter or bigger and no limbs the bottom 8 feet. Am I on track? Who would I contact to have them removed? What heading in the yellow pages to even look for? Thanks, Phil



Just my $0.02, but expecting $500 or $ 600/tree is really, really optimistic. I was given a quote for my 19 acres (252 stems) $17000, in 2006. If you have really good trees it's possible to get more. Logging is all about volume, then grade. In my area most logging companies have a minimum acreage they'll cut (unless you have really good trees) and I think it's 15 acres. Thinning your stand will definitely help it's health.


----------



## Ohiowoodguy (Aug 2, 2008)

DO NOT do anything until you hire an independant consulting forrester, or someone from the state!!! I've heard and seen WAY too many horror stories concerning local loggers to trust any of them without ALOT of research (asking you neighbors is a start, but not enough). 
Make sure that ONLY the trees you designate are taken, are felled with minimal collateral damage, a strict timeline is enforced, grade lumber and veneer lumber and blocking are designated (along with price), the condition of the tract at finish is specified (levelling ruts, etc.) All this in writing in your contract, of course.opcorn:


----------



## Gologit (Aug 2, 2008)

Ohiowoodguy said:


> DO NOT do anything until you hire an independant consulting forrester, or someone from the state!!! I've heard and seen WAY too many horror stories concerning local loggers to trust any of them without ALOT of research (asking you neighbors is a start, but not enough).
> Make sure that ONLY the trees you designate are taken, are felled with minimal collateral damage, a strict timeline is enforced, grade lumber and veneer lumber and blocking are designated (along with price), the condition of the tract at finish is specified (levelling ruts, etc.) All this in writing in your contract, of course.opcorn:



That's good advice. You're learning. It's about time.


----------



## chevytaHOE5674 (Aug 3, 2008)

Please do not hire some random "logger" to come in and take all the high value best trees. Many loggers love to be hired without a forester as they can just take all the high $$$ trees and leave the junk and many customers don't know the difference. 

You really want to "take the worst first", now this means you will see low $$$ yield's in the first few rotations, but long term will have a healthier more valuable stand. Remember when the stand regenerates you want the seed to come from your best genetic stock, not crap. 

Also have a good contract like stated. You want everything in there from rutting specs, residual tree damage, slash distribution, etc...


----------



## hickslawns (Aug 3, 2008)

Thanks for the input guys. I am totally ignorant about this stuff. I definately need to do my homework. This advice has all been taken in and I will digest it for awhile prior to doing anything. I am still working on buying the land, so your replies really are helpful. Phil


----------



## Ohiowoodguy (Aug 3, 2008)

Gologit said:


> It's about time.



oke: Still don't get it?


----------



## SuperDuty335 (Aug 4, 2008)

My father told me a story about a logger here in NC that swindled some folks out of big money years ago. Back then you could still find pretty big timber in this area so this guy would come through and offer a really great price for saw timber and nearly nothing for pulpwood. Everyone thought this was a good deal so they hired him, evidently without stipulation. It turns out the guy was taking all the good saw timber to the pulp mill instead of the sawmill and thus paying the property owner according to the pulpwood agreement!


----------



## hammerlogging (Aug 5, 2008)

There's plenty of opportunity for a logger to thieve timber from a landowner without oversight. There's equal opportunity for a forester to inform an uneducated landowner of his extraordinary services and high grade the crap out of the timber, never enforce the contract with the loggers, not see theat the wood is marketed to its maximum value, and get 10% off the top for doing nothing. So, thats why you look around, listen to reputations, look at completed jobs with different sorts of styles of cuts. If its a logger, pay them by the MBF (thousand board feet) rather than a percentage, and if its a forester, pay them by the hour not a percentage- a tool to keep things fair and just, and better for the landowner, esp. a landowner sitting on 5 acres of veneer.


----------



## Bushler (Aug 5, 2008)

The first thing I'd do is go to the local mills and find out what they'd pay for the timber delivered to their mill. Then I'd figure roughly 50/50 for logger/owner. 

Also find out about severance tax. And replanting cost.

Mark the trees you want cut, then ask the differenct local logger contractors to come make an offer. Discuss clean up, scrarification, etc.

Ask for references. Ask the mill if they can recomend a logger. Also ask the mill if they have a sample contract form.


----------



## Zodiac45 (Aug 5, 2008)

This is all very good advise and should be considered. 4 Acres is quite small and will not generate much interest unless you have exceptional stems and even then it's likley that you'll have a tought time getting it done due too the fact that you are thinning for health and not "logging" for profit. The difference being that you would not be removing the top money trees , but in fact insuring that they (Based on layout) remain healthy. You might be better off considering it for use as a woodlot if you burn wood for heat. You could take 4-5 cords a year and help it while you were at it. I only say this because if it's as thick as you say it is, most likely there's not enough big stuff too make it pay


----------



## hammerlogging (Aug 6, 2008)

True, beware. I say no on the "cutting on shares"- the 50/50 route, because it returns some of the high grading temptation. And beware, your neighbor may well have had his timber high graded despite what the logger told him/her. I know I've cut for one guy (regretfully) who sold his services to landowners as doing improvement cuts and they were total high grades. It was opened up enough for regeneration to make 2 age classes but the residual timber was....junk. Zodiac has a good point about alternative options. "Hey cutter, here's a magic string. If the trees bigger than this around, cut it" Thats what we call diameter limit cutting and its stupid- no account for species, vigor, and so forth. Its all the big sawmills do, but atleast they don't do it under the guise of an "improvement cut"


----------



## hickslawns (Aug 6, 2008)

I think there is enough down to keep me busy with firewood for awhile. Good idea too Zodiac. I am not going to rush anything. Do my homework and make myself educated. If the mill will take them, I could probably get them loaded and delivered to them. We have a tractor, bobcat, and front end loader. Between the 3 of them, I could get some stuff loaded. Farmers in the off-season with an excavator sitting idle might pitch in for a fee. Thanks again for all the suggestions.


----------



## gink595 (Aug 6, 2008)

Your not from Hicksville are you, judging by your user name, if so there are some decent saw mills over here not far from the Hicksville area.


----------



## RAS323 (Aug 7, 2008)

hickslawns said:


> I think there is enough down to keep me busy with firewood for awhile. Good idea too Zodiac. I am not going to rush anything. Do my homework and make myself educated. If the mill will take them, I could probably get them loaded and delivered to them. We have a tractor, bobcat, and front end loader. Between the 3 of them, I could get some stuff loaded. Farmers in the off-season with an excavator sitting idle might pitch in for a fee. Thanks again for all the suggestions.




After I got my price and turned down their check, the logging company told me there was $34000+ worth of timber on my property and 50% was their take. So I thought what the hell, I could do it myself and make an extra $17000. So that's what I'm doing. I already have a tractor, and small trailer (7000# gvw) and I bought a winch . This is actually working out really well, I only cut a few trees when I want to, taxes aren't nearly as bad. I don't have too many tops rotting in the woods when I could have hauled them in for firewood. This year/ summer log prices are low, so trees left standing.

<a href="http://s217.photobucket.com/albums/cc18/Kali232/?action=view&current=DSCN0960.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc18/Kali232/DSCN0960.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>


----------



## Zodiac45 (Aug 7, 2008)

Excellent RAS

Good way too go and you get some return on your equiptment and the land.


----------



## hickslawns (Aug 8, 2008)

Gink- Not from Hicksville, just happens to be my last name. Lima, Ohio actually.

RAS- Good for you. Nice to hear I am not alone in my thoughts. Little work never scared me anyway.


----------



## infomet (Aug 12, 2008)

Not much experience here, but I've seen offers vary by a factor of three!
The bad loggers are right down there with the people who seel flood damaged cars, IMHO!!


----------

