# Bandit 990XP, Morbark 12r or Vermeer BC1000xl



## capetrees (Aug 6, 2013)

Which one would you choose? Which have you run? What options do you find are a must, what engine options are a must? Any insight is great. Looking to upgrade my chipper (BC1000xl) and at this point I'm thinking Chevy, Ford, Dodge. They all work well but which is better whith what options and why?
:bringit:


----------



## Thillmaine1 (Aug 6, 2013)

*Bandit*

I've never run a morbark 12r, but I've had 2 bandit 990's. get the biggest motor, with the winch if you plan on chipping any decent wood. The 84 hp Kubota just doesn't cut it. we have 90 something perkins know, much better. Night and day over the bc100. Bandit anyway over Vermeer.


----------



## capetrees (Aug 6, 2013)

Been given an estimate with the 84.5 hp Perkins. Not enough?


----------



## treeman82 (Aug 6, 2013)

In all honesty, I'd probably go with a 12R... and I know absolutely nothing about the machine. Ran a 990 a couple of times, and was NOT impressed, samd with the BC1000. Maybe the 990 I ran had an 84 hp engine and that was the problem? If you're in the market though... I heard about a really good deal on a used 1590.


----------



## imagineero (Aug 7, 2013)

I've had the bc1000xl and I dont think the 990xp is an upgrade, more a lateral step. I know nothing about the morbark. I went from the bc1000xl to a 250XP with the 120 perkins turbo diesel and that was definitely a big upgrade for me. It's heavier, but the infeed is 12x19 and it has lift and crush. The 120 turbo is awesome, the autofeed almost never kicks in. It uses surprisingly little fuel also. You can get them as single axle or dual axle, I got the single axle and it gets into tight spaces. 

What is it about the vermeer you are not liking? Are you doing logs often and it can't keep up? service/parts cost? Just not quick enough on brush? It is the lightest machine in its class.

Shaun


----------



## capetrees (Aug 7, 2013)

When I bought it, I bought it used and returned the machine to as near factory as I could. Runs great,no problems. It's old, 2002 with 1300 hrs and about time for an upgrade I think. Looking to get the best possible machine for what I do, mostly smaller trees, rarely over 14" trunk. Whatever I buy, it'll be mine for a long time. I don't use it much but do want a quality machine. 

The 250 is a tough machine but I don't like the disks. Drum is my choice and from what I understand from the dealers, thats the way the industry is leaning anyway. Might be a sales pitch though.


----------



## NCTREE (Aug 7, 2013)

You'll do fine with the 990xp 85 perkins. I'd get the hydro option on the discharge chute though, wish I had.


----------



## imagineero (Aug 7, 2013)

capetrees said:


> When I bought it, I bought it used and returned the machine to as near factory as I could. Runs great,no problems. It's old, 2002 with 1300 hrs and about time for an upgrade I think. Looking to get the best possible machine for what I do, mostly smaller trees, rarely over 14" trunk. Whatever I buy, it'll be mine for a long time. I don't use it much but do want a quality machine.
> 
> The 250 is a tough machine but I don't like the disks. Drum is my choice and from what I understand from the dealers, thats the way the industry is leaning anyway. Might be a sales pitch though.



1300 is low hours for a bc1000xl. The dealer was telling you right about everyone abandoning disk. People are becoming more fuel conscious, and a drum machine gets by with less horsepower for the same infeed. They're also a little more tolerant to less than perfectly sharp blades, and the gap between the feed rollers and the drum is less than it is on a disk machine, so less space for crud to pile up and get jammed. On the plus side for the disks, they really pack the chip in tight, and put out a better quality of chip so long as the blades are sharp. Was there something in particular you didn't like about disks?

Bandits in general seem to last a long time, need less servicing, and are cheaper to get parts for and easier to work on. On the flipside, I found vermeers hold their value better. The bc1000XL I had was getting repaired/serviced every month or two. With the (much older!) 250xp, it never seems to have any problems, and it takes a pounding.

@nctree, does the hydro option do up/down as well as left/right? 

Every now and then I think it would be nice to have a winch, but not very often. On bigger jobs I get in a guy with an 1890 with a winch, and every time we use it I remember why I don't really need one. They just tear the hell out of peoples lawns, and they're really not that quick. It works out just fine if you've got an 18" machine, and you get a job with a bunch of small to medium trees that you can chip whole and the site has good access. It's a two man job then - fall, winch, chip. Nice and simple and very little mess or effort needed. Those sort of jobs are very rare though, I maybe get 2 or 3 a year like that. Most of the trees that would fit whole into a 250xp can be dragged there by a couple guys, or you could cut them into 2 or 3 pieces. I think it's not really worth getting a winch on a 12" machine.

Shaun


----------



## capetrees (Aug 7, 2013)

The winch was an option on the bandit but it was close to $4K. Not worth it. The one I have priced comes with a Perkins 84.5 hp. As you said, 1300 hrs is low. I just don't want to continue to use it and find it has NO worth someday when I want to trade. Seems now is a good time. 

Anyone have any input on the new Tier 4 engines? If I wait, is it worth it to wait for the tier 4 or stay with a tier 3 if I can? One of the prices, the vermeer is with a tier 4i, a toned down Cummins B3 from 84 hp to 74 hp.


----------



## treeman82 (Aug 7, 2013)

capetrees said:


> The winch was an option on the bandit but it was close to $4K. Not worth it. The one I have priced comes with a Perkins 84.5 hp. As you said, 1300 hrs is low. I just don't want to continue to use it and find it has NO worth someday when I want to trade. Seems now is a good time.
> 
> Anyone have any input on the new Tier 4 engines? If I wait, is it worth it to wait for the tier 4 or stay with a tier 3 if I can? One of the prices, the vermeer is with a tier 4i, a toned down Cummins B3 from 84 hp to 74 hp.



While I am not up on the cost of adding a winch to a chipper during build, I can tell you with absolute certainty that the feature is worth whatever the cost. As far as tier 3 vs. 4... get a tier 3 if you can.


----------



## sgreanbeans (Aug 8, 2013)

Bandit or Morbark, I don't like Vermeer's. Never had a Bandit, but Davey has them, they are pretty freakin sweet. I had 5 250xp's and a 1590 with a winch. Nice machines. I have had Vermeer's, always had problems, have had 4 Morbarks, love them. Plus Bandit and Morbark are way better at service and parts. I have a Vermeer dealership right around the corner, takes them days to get parts. I use Alexander Equip in Chicago, 200 miles away, call to order parts, ALWAYS have them the next day by 11 am.


----------



## capetrees (Aug 8, 2013)

As far as repairs go, I got to thinking and yes, a while back I did say that repairs come as time wears parts out, refering to replacing the drum and bearings in my Vermeer but then it dawned on me, they wore out after 500 hours. Thats not good. Entire new machine is warrantied for 1 year. Extended warrantys for engine the rest of the machine available at a price. Right now, 33 list and 9 trade so down t 24 so far.
Doing my research on the Bandit shows that they are heavy duty drums and according to the sales rep, he's never had to replace a drum. Maybe not. CAT motor warranty on the Bandit is great too. Don't know about the rest of the machine though. 36 list minus 8 trade, 28 so far.
Morbark is going to get back to me soon. A far as dealerships, everything is two hours away but the Morbark salesman is hinting to me that the repairman comes to me for repairs. Probably more money but I'll find out. I have a GREAT mechanic who can repair anything so unless it's a factory warranty issue, I'm good.


----------



## mattfr12 (Aug 8, 2013)

Get the winch I let my guys get a head start on pines then we use the winch to pull apart the birds nest underneath.

I got my winch for my 250 off a totaled 1890 for 300$


----------



## mattfr12 (Aug 8, 2013)

sgreanbeans said:


> Bandit or Morbark, I don't like Vermeer's. Never had a Bandit, but Davey has them, they are pretty freakin sweet. I had 5 250xp's and a 1590 with a winch. Nice machines. I have had Vermeer's, always had problems, have had 4 Morbarks, love them. Plus Bandit and Morbark are way better at service and parts. I have a Vermeer dealership right around the corner, takes them days to get parts. I use Alexander Equip in Chicago, 200 miles away, call to order parts, ALWAYS have them the next day by 11 am.



250xp has to be about the most bullet proof out of all. I've owned two and have never had one with any down time more than hours.


----------



## capetrees (Sep 21, 2013)

Been holding out for the Morbark dealer to get a demo to me. 

What a flop.:msp_thumbdn:

Very much not impressed. Brought down a new machine, zero hours on it and it didn't impress at all. The murphy switch didn't work right all the time, cutting out and killing the engine and then it clogged so bad it stalled on a 10" log. 84 hp Kubota, Morbark 12R, drum chipper. No fold up feed table and the infeed throat opening is smaller than the Vermeer I have. Plus was that it has a down pressure crusher but even that didn't run right all the time. 

Put the rest of the log that clogge the Morbark into my 11 year old Vermeer and it chewed it up no problem. Even the Morbark reps were impressed.


----------



## ducaticorse (Sep 22, 2013)

I have a 98 morbark model 13 with 2200 hours I paid 8 or 9k for and it will destroy any of the above listed machines. 125jd, beefy construction, one of the best, well built chippers I've ever run. Only thing it needs is a winch. Sorry to hear of your 12 running piss poor. Maybe find a well taken care of, older 13 like mine and go that crouse.


----------



## imagineero (Sep 22, 2013)

How much does it weigh?


----------



## capetrees (Sep 22, 2013)

The new Morbark 12R weight in at 5500 lbs. The Vermeer is around 4800 lbs.

Called the Vermeer rep to get a demo asap. The Vermeer doesn't have the bells and whistles like the down pressure crusher, hydaulic lift for the infeed wheels to clean out drum and open for large logs and doesn't have dual infeed wheels. Strangely, the Morbark has a 12" capcity, a 12" x 15" opening yet has a drum only 14 1/4" wide?
The vermeer has a 20" x20" drum for a 12"x 17" opening. I also like the way the tension on the drive belt is adjusted on the Vermeer as opposed to the Morbark which in turn, drives the auto feed to work or not. The Morbark is cheaper due to a good trade on my Vermeer but what am I giving up and what am I getting?

Right now I may sound like I'm talking may way into a Vermeer but not really. I still need to see it in action. I have one but it's not the new model. I just was so let down by the Morbark that every slight dislike is magnified.


----------



## ducaticorse (Sep 22, 2013)

imagineero said:


> How much does it weigh?



Around 6500 I'd have to check to be sure though.


----------



## sgreanbeans (Sep 23, 2013)

capetrees said:


> The new Morbark 12R weight in at 5500 lbs. The Vermeer is around 4800 lbs.
> 
> Called the Vermeer rep to get a demo asap. The Vermeer doesn't have the bells and whistles like the down pressure crusher, hydaulic lift for the infeed wheels to clean out drum and open for large logs and doesn't have dual infeed wheels. Strangely, the Morbark has a 12" capcity, a 12" x 15" opening yet has a drum only 14 1/4" wide?
> The vermeer has a 20" x20" drum for a 12"x 17" opening. I also like the way the tension on the drive belt is adjusted on the Vermeer as opposed to the Morbark which in turn, drives the auto feed to work or not. The Morbark is cheaper due to a good trade on my Vermeer but what am I giving up and what am I getting?
> ...



Thing I love about Morbark, the service. I have a Vermeer shop right around the corner, they never have parts and when they order them, it takes forever. I use a Morbark dealer in Chicago, Alexander Equipment, and get my parts the next day


----------



## capetrees (Sep 23, 2013)

All dealers and repair shops are at least 1.5/2 hours away. Even if the shop was around the corner, thats not a selling point to me in that I don't want to go there, ever, if the machine is running correct. By comparison though, my Vermeer dealer has always been top notch with me, get it in Monday, get it back by Friday, regardless of whats wrong. It helps that I don't work it during the week so no down time but never a problem with service.


----------



## capetrees (Oct 4, 2013)

Going with the Vermeer.:msp_thumbsup:

Dealer came down with a brand new machine, gave it to me for the week. Used it as much as possible and no matter what I threw at it, it kept going strong. Tier4i Cummins 74 hp. engine and it ran away from the Morbark demo that came down with its tier3 84 hp perkins. For those that have down played the Vermeer for whatever reasons, try one out. The 1000xl has a lot of changes and upgrades from older models. Engine enclosure is all metal, no more fiberglass, exterior air filter with dust bowl, changed variable speed feed wheel to a 3 position switch for the auto feed to work, no more thinking, safety bars that are NOT a big hassle, everything is accessable for maintainence, quiet, lightweight and nothing stopped it. Bulky brush, vines, 12" live pine, 12" willow, kept on going. 
Dealer is adding a couple of changes to the machine and came down in price to match the lower price offered on the morbark. No going to try the bandit. Never heard from the rep after he sent me a price so why try? Financing went through Vermeers contact and it should be all mine end of next week.:msp_thumbup:


----------



## deevo (Oct 4, 2013)

capetrees said:


> Going with the Vermeer.:msp_thumbsup:
> 
> Dealer came down with a brand new machine, gave it to me for the week. Used it as much as possible and no matter what I threw at it, it kept going strong. Tier4i Cummins 74 hp. engine and it ran away from the Morbark demo that came down with its tier3 84 hp perkins. For those that have down played the Vermeer for whatever reasons, try one out. The 1000xl has a lot of changes and upgrades from older models. Engine enclosure is all metal, no more fiberglass, exterior air filter with dust bowl, changed variable speed feed wheel to a 3 position switch for the auto feed to work, no more thinking, safety bars that are NOT a big hassle, everything is accessable for maintainence, quiet, lightweight and nothing stopped it. Bulky brush, vines, 12" live pine, 12" willow, kept on going.
> Dealer is adding a couple of changes to the machine and came down in price to match the lower price offered on the morbark. No going to try the bandit. Never heard from the rep after he sent me a price so why try? Financing went through Vermeers contact and it should be all mine end of next week.:msp_thumbup:


That's great, I am demoing a Vermeer bc1500. With winch and bc1800 with a winch next week. Same here bandit never even called me back, and had a terrible ordeal with them on my other chipper last week, guy at the parts knew nothing and told me to call the maker of the engine! Nice service! Congrats!


----------



## rtsims (Oct 4, 2013)

Still have my eyes set on a 250xp. I have yet to read anything negative about them, and I hear the dealers around my parts are legit.


----------



## squad143 (Oct 6, 2013)

deevo said:


> That's great, I am demoing a Vermeer bc1500. With winch and bc1800 with a winch next week. Same here bandit never even called me back, and had a terrible ordeal with them on my other chipper last week, guy at the parts knew nothing and told me to call the maker of the engine! Nice service! Congrats!



I find that Nortrax (Ontario Bandit dealers) don't have much information on the chippers they sell.
If you have any technical questions, deal with Bandit direct. I've found that they are more than helpful.


----------



## Mikecutstrees (Nov 11, 2013)

I'd keep the BC1000. Think about the money you will save not making payments. If it runs well, keep it. Mines got 3,000 hrs plus and still running strong. My 2Cs

Mike


----------



## capetrees (Nov 12, 2013)

I went and bought the new one but if my old one didn't have the rust and corrosion problems, yes, I probably would have kept it longer. But even with the payments, I have no regrets about buying the new one. I've thrown everything at it and 20+ hours later, no slow downs or issues of any kind. If you don't have one, try one. I'm not easliy parted from my money and this was a no brainer.


----------



## squad143 (Nov 12, 2013)

A buddy of mine is looking at buying a new one this year. He tells me that next year they are going up almost $10,000.

Ouch!


----------



## capetrees (Nov 13, 2013)

I heard that too and thats part of why I bought now. i think it's because of the emissions regs regarding hp from the engines, Tier 4. Mine is a tier4i, an 84 hp Cummins tweaked down to accomodate the regs, lowering the hp to 74 hp. Can't tell the difference though with the smart feed.


----------



## rtsims (Nov 14, 2013)

Hey Cape if you don't mind me asking what was the price difference between the Vermeer and Bandit?


----------



## squad143 (Nov 14, 2013)

squad143 said:


> A buddy of mine is looking at buying a new one this year. He tells me that next year they are going up almost $10,000.



Talked with him today.

He bought a new BC1000

Keeping his old one as a spare and to run a second crew next year.


----------



## rtsims (Nov 15, 2013)

Never mind, went back and re read the first page. My bad


----------



## Mikecutstrees (Nov 17, 2013)

Congrats Capetrees. I know we have both had our BC1000s for a long time. Someday I'll retire mine. Just repainted it last year so a few more years for mine. Keep me posted on your new BC1000XL I'm very curious how it treats ya. Good Luck!

Mike


----------



## capetrees (Nov 23, 2013)

rtsims said:


> Hey Cape if you don't mind me asking what was the price difference between the Vermeer and Bandit?


 
The Morbark was just under $39K, the Bandit was just under $37K and the Vermeer was $33K, all before trades.


----------

