# Too big for a 660?



## Stick&string (Apr 4, 2022)

I have gotten may hands on some rather large pecan logs that I am going to be milling up for table & counter tops. The problem is that my current set up does not have the capacity to handle to two largest logs that I have. The two logs that are too big have some very cool crotches & knots that are the whole point in slabbing the logs. If I cut these sections off to fit my current set up, I would be losing some extremely unique grain in the slabs.

I currently have a 36" Alaskan that I put on a stock 660 Magnum. I run an aux oiler, run the saw a touch rich with 40:1 mix w/premium gas when milling. I keep the chain sharp through out the day of cutting. I have drilled my bar so that I bolt the mill to it through the nose of the bar & have the aux oiler installed with a banjo bolt so the aux oil goes directly into the bar groove. I have milled pecan, cedar, walnut & red oak with this set up. The red oak pretty well maxed out the cutting capacity of this set up but the saw handled it fine. I let the saw control the speed of the cut so the saw doesn't get overloaded & always let the saw idle before & after the cut to allow it to cool.

I feel pretty comfortable with upsizing the mill & putting a 42" bar on the 660 & milling with that based on what I have read here. If I were to do this, I would still have to cut off some of the areas of the logs that I am looking to keep in the slabs. If I could run a 52" bar on the 660, I could minimize the trimming to an amount that I could live with. If I were to do this, I would mount the tach to the saw so that I could keep track of the tune real time to make sure I don't get to a point that I am running the saw lean (don't fully trust my ears to pick up on this yet & it would be nice all around regardless of going back to the smaller set up) & I may even get a temp. probe to mount to the saw to keep track of the temp as well. I'm also thinking about increasing the ratio to 32:1, although I've been reading some stuff here that makes me think that may not be as big of an advantage as I was initially thinking it would be.

I don't have the ability to go any bigger on the saw end of the equation at this time. The band saw mills that I know of in my area do not have the capacity to get these logs milled the way I would want either. I'm wanting to get the logs milled up soon so they can start drying (no access to a kiln) & as they are green now & I'm figuring that if I mill them green, it would be easier to cut & easier on the saw than if they sat long enough for me to upgrade on my saw and dried some. 

Am I just asking to burn up the 660 trying this or would I be able to get this done & still have an operable saw after?


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## Brian72 (Apr 4, 2022)

I've ran a 50" bar on my 661 to slab some big Sycamore. It was slow-going but worked fine. Definitely need the auxiliary oiler.

Sent from my moto g power (2022) using Tapatalk


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## cookies (Apr 4, 2022)

can you borrow another power head to run a dual saw bar?


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## Stick&string (Apr 4, 2022)

I think my neighbor has one but being neighborly isn’t one of his talents. He’s the only person I know of that would have one.


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## BobL (Apr 4, 2022)

I know a bloke here in Oz that uses a 660 with a 60" bar on wood a lot harder than pecan. 
The trick is in sharpening - the chain must be kept sharp.
OK he doesn't use it very often and don't forget that even on a 60" log only a small proportion of the cuts are actually 60" wide
eg on 50" diameter log about half the slabs will be >44" wide.


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## gggGary (Apr 4, 2022)

You _that_ far from electricity?


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## gnef (Apr 7, 2022)

My main mill is a 661 with a forester 56" bar. I've done a number of cuts that were nearly 4 ft wide, which is about the maximum for me (I kept the felling dogs on, and I clamp a safe distance away from the tip). The 661 did just fine with the cut, but like others said, it wasn't cutting at that width the whole time, and I'm sure it was slower than an 881 would have been. Oddly, it was in a pecan log as well!

I do keep 6 loops of chain on hand, which lets me rotate and make sure I'm cutting with sharp cutters. I also am thinking about trying out some skip chain to see how well it performs in the mill, but the full comp ripping chain has been just fine for me so far. Once you get a feel for the cut speed, it really isn't that bad, and if you aren't going to mill that width very often, it doesn't make sense to buy an 881 or 3120 for this one project.


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## Ted Jenkins (Apr 7, 2022)

I do not like a 660 or 661 for milling but that does not mean they are bad. I would prefer a 070 clone which is cheap and will power a 60'' bar. However a 660 will power a 60'' or 52'' bar fine. If the saw bogs down too much then go to a skip tooth. I have cut many slabs free handed that were very nice. Most of the time I have large logs available so the value of the wood is not to worry about. I use a laser as a guide then I cut from both sides with a 30'' bar. I have learned that I must allow for at least a 1/2'' for a margin of error. Since slabs must be planed anyway I have only noticed a major amount of time saved for the simple setup. Also if a slab does not turn out as well as I had hoped then I just grab another log. I do believe if a OP takes their time they can free hand nice jobs. Thanks


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## motolife313 (Apr 9, 2022)

I think the time will be gain back when planning. Get too low and that sucker will take a long time to plain out. Maybe on small stuff it’s worth it if u can cut straight but that takes some skill. Also when stickering the boards are flatter and will dry better that way. Hey if u can cut like a machine do it but most can’t.


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## TheLaundryMan (Apr 9, 2022)

gnef said:


> My main mill is a 661 with a forester 56" bar. I've done a number of cuts that were nearly 4 ft wide, which is about the maximum for me (I kept the felling dogs on, and I clamp a safe distance away from the tip). The 661 did just fine with the cut, but like others said, it wasn't cutting at that width the whole time, and I'm sure it was slower than an 881 would have been. Oddly, it was in a pecan log as well!
> 
> I do keep 6 loops of chain on hand, which lets me rotate and make sure I'm cutting with sharp cutters. I also am thinking about trying out some skip chain to see how well it performs in the mill, but the full comp ripping chain has been just fine for me so far. Once you get a feel for the cut speed, it really isn't that bad, and if you aren't going to mill that width very often, it doesn't make sense to buy an 881 or 3120 for this one project.


Wait you’re using full comp chains on the 56 inch bar?? How hard of wood are you cutting? Still haven’t put my 52 inch in wood. But I went with full skip. That’s a lotta teeth to sharpen!


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## motolife313 (Apr 9, 2022)

Ya I go with skip on everything but my 171. Actually I got a 24” for my 3120 for noodling big rounds and run full comp. I’m not in sharping either but do it anyway of course


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## gnef (Jun 2, 2022)

TheLaundryMan said:


> Wait you’re using full comp chains on the 56 inch bar?? How hard of wood are you cutting? Still haven’t put my 52 inch in wood. But I went with full skip. That’s a lotta teeth to sharpen!


Sorry, I only just saw this response!

Yes, I'm running standard full comp ripping chain made by Carlton (Bailey's Woodlandpro brand). I've been cutting a lot of pecan and red oak on the wider side, some white oak, some walnut, and just a bit of maple and pine.

I will say that I've been pretty impressed with my 661 for milling, and it has actually outperformed my expectations with the 56" bar and mill. A lot of people say that 56" is too much for the 661, so I was expecting to have more problems, but it has worked quite well for me. I do know that milling is exceptionally hard on saws, so I even got a spare 661 to keep on hand for when my first one dies. I've wanted an 881 setup, but since I do this as a hobby on the side, I just can't justify the cost yet (not just the saw, but the bars are quite expensive for the lengths that I would want, along with a spool or two of .404 ripping chain, and if I wanted a spare 881 to keep on hand!).

It is definitely a lot to sharpen! There have been times that I've been out milling all day, and used up all 6 of my main ripping chains, and it definitely takes me a while with my cleaning and sharpening regimen to go through all the chains and the saws (chains and small parts go through the ultrasonic cleaner while I clean out the internals, air filter, bar, etc.). I use the 2 in 1 when I can, which helps save time.

I do have a couple loops of skip on hand for my 56" bar, which I am thinking about trying out in the future, but it is standard crosscut, so it would take a number of sessions to gradually sharpen to 10 degrees. If it works well, I actually have a spool of skip that I can make up a whole separate set of chains with.


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## sean donato (Jun 2, 2022)

Wait you have 2 661 saws? If so get a double ended bar and go as big as you'd like. Save the wear and tear on one saw. I do think your being a tad paranoid with what you say your doing, and if your not adjusting the carb for the 40 to 1 mix ratio your actually leaning the saw out. Not running it richer. The extra oil displaces the fuel. Not doing your self any favors there. Milling is hard on a saw but doesn't have to be the end all of it. Let it cut at its own pace, keep a sharp chain and give it some run time to cool off after a long cut.


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## gnef (Jun 2, 2022)

sean donato said:


> Wait you have 2 661 saws? If so get a double ended bar and go as big as you'd like. Save the wear and tear on one saw. I do think your being a tad paranoid with what you say your doing, and if your not adjusting the carb for the 40 to 1 mix ratio your actually leaning the saw out. Not running it richer. The extra oil displaces the fuel. Not doing your self any favors there. Milling is hard on a saw but doesn't have to be the end all of it. Let it cut at its own pace, keep a sharp chain and give it some run time to cool off after a long cut.


I think you are getting me and the OP confused. I don't believe the OP has two saws in this class. I have two so that I am never down for an extended period of time. Yes, I have considered going with a double ended bar, but that would require me to have a partner, and I do everything by myself right now (I also don't want to hook up a bicycle cable to be able to run both saws myself). I do run my mix a bit on the heavy oil side, but only down to around 44:1 or so, and with the 661, the m-tronic adjusts everything. I have had very good results with this so far, with no signs of early failure - again, I do have the second saw, just in case though! I do idle before the first cut to get the saw warmed up, and I idle after every cut to let it cool down.


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## TheLaundryMan (Jun 2, 2022)

gnef said:


> Sorry, I only just saw this response!
> 
> Yes, I'm running standard full comp ripping chain made by Carlton (Bailey's Woodlandpro brand). I've been cutting a lot of pecan and red oak on the wider side, some white oak, some walnut, and just a bit of maple and pine.
> 
> ...


Ah gotcha! Ripping chain hits a little different than an actual full comp chain. Since my comment I got my 52 incher into some post oak that was 44 inches wide and it didn’t hesitate. I actually got a better finish than when I’ve milled using a full comp. felt like the extra space to clear chips made a huge difference....I am probably going to only mill with skip from here on out. I have a very limited chain collection, still pretty new to this addiction. But I think I’m gonna get a loop of the ripping chain and see which I like sharpening more, ripping chain or skip chain.


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## sean donato (Jun 2, 2022)

gnef said:


> I think you are getting me and the OP confused. I don't believe the OP has two saws in this class. I have two so that I am never down for an extended period of time. Yes, I have considered going with a double ended bar, but that would require me to have a partner, and I do everything by myself right now (I also don't want to hook up a bicycle cable to be able to run both saws myself). I do run my mix a bit on the heavy oil side, but only down to around 44:1 or so, and with the 661, the m-tronic adjusts everything. I have had very good results with this so far, with no signs of early failure - again, I do have the second saw, just in case though! I do idle before the first cut to get the saw warmed up, and I idle after every cut to let it cool down.


Yeah I did get you mixed up with the op. Sorry.


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## gnef (Jun 3, 2022)

TheLaundryMan said:


> Ah gotcha! Ripping chain hits a little different than an actual full comp chain. Since my comment I got my 52 incher into some post oak that was 44 inches wide and it didn’t hesitate. I actually got a better finish than when I’ve milled using a full comp. felt like the extra space to clear chips made a huge difference....I am probably going to only mill with skip from here on out. I have a very limited chain collection, still pretty new to this addiction. But I think I’m gonna get a loop of the ripping chain and see which I like sharpening more, ripping chain or skip chain.


I'm glad you found a setup that works well for you! I do think I'm going to stick with my full comp ripping for my primary milling chains - I've already spent so much money on them! I will definitely need to give the skip chains a try too though to see how well they work for me, and if they do work better, I'll probably switch over to them once I wear out my set of current ripping chains (though that will probably be a while!)


sean donato said:


> Yeah I did get you mixed up with the op. Sorry.


You're good!


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## sean donato (Jun 3, 2022)

I personally didn't see much difference between dedicated ripping chain and full comp. The ripping chain may have been a bit smoother, but not enough that I worried for what I was doing. Ymmv


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## Charlie Coyote (Jul 13, 2022)

sean donato said:


> Wait you have 2 661 saws? If so get a double ended bar and go as big as you'd like. Save the wear and tear on one saw. I do think your being a tad paranoid with what you say your doing, and if your not adjusting the carb for the 40 to 1 mix ratio your actually leaning the saw out. Not running it richer. The extra oil displaces the fuel. Not doing your self any favors there. Milling is hard on a saw but doesn't have to be the end all of it. Let it cut at its own pace, keep a sharp chain and give it some run time to cool off after a long cut.


Do you really believe that the difference between 50:1 and 40:1, which is .6 oz. makes a saw so much leaner that it somehow jeopardizes it?


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## J D (Jul 13, 2022)

Charlie Coyote said:


> Do you really believe that the difference between 50:1 and 40:1, which is .6 oz. makes a saw so much leaner that it somehow jeopardizes it?


A lot of saws are tuned extremely lean from new (when they should be run a bit rich). Adding more oil may only change it a fraction, but that fraction may be what raises the temp 1° over critical.
Even changing oils can make a difference... moral of the story is to tune for what your mix is


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## Charlie Coyote (Jul 13, 2022)

J D said:


> A lot of saws are tuned extremely lean from new (when they should be run a bit rich). Adding more oil may only change it a fraction, but that fraction may be what raises the temp 1° over critical.
> Even changing oils can make a difference... moral of the story is to tune for what your mix is


I found this YouTube video on the very subject very informative by Dave's Small Engines. It compares effects of different ratios of mix. Sounds like you might use the input, too.


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## sean donato (Jul 13, 2022)

Charlie Coyote said:


> Do you really believe that the difference between 50:1 and 40:1, which is .6 oz. makes a saw so much leaner that it somehow jeopardizes


It's already been more then proven that oil displaces fuel in the mix. It may not get you today or tomorrow but yes it will eventually bite you. Your video only proves you need to re-tune for different mix ratios. Truthfully I don't care what you do with your saws or two strokes engines, tune them, don't tune them doesn't make a difference to me.


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## J D (Jul 13, 2022)

That video just reinforces what we were saying... He added more oil & the saw ran hotter. More oil isn't going to cause more friction so that isn't the cause of the heat, & oil doesn't burn hotter than fuel so that can't be it either... The increase in temp is due to the leaner running condition caused by adding more oil & not re-tuning accordingly. It is also clear his saw was running rich from the start, had it been tuned on the lean side to start with I'd wager the results would have shown higher temps & a greater variation


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## Charlie Coyote (Jul 14, 2022)

25:1 is double 50:1. There are a lot of saws fried at 50:1 and more running in excess of two decades at 32:1 and 40:1. Amsoil Saber synthetic 2 cycle is the only 100:1 that I know of. Numerous other YouTube video is up on it with the producers' testimonies of decades of use at 80:1. Not to mention a lot of loggers and woodies that swear by 32:1 and 40:1 never cooking the engine. After frying my Husqvarna 359 at 50:1 and buying two new saws I decided to run at least their set in at 40:1. I'm liking everything I see and saw so far. My beans.


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## sean donato (Jul 14, 2022)

Charlie Coyote said:


> 25:1 is double 50:1. There are a lot of saws fried at 50:1 and more running in excess of two decades at 32:1 and 40:1. Amsoil Saber synthetic 2 cycle is the only 100:1 that I know of. Numerous other YouTube video is up on it with the producers' testimonies of decades of use at 80:1. Not to mention a lot of loggers and woodies that swear by 32:1 and 40:1 never cooking the engine. After frying my Husqvarna 359 at 50:1 and buying two new saws I decided to run at least their set in at 40:1. I'm liking everything I see and saw so far. My beans.


I really need to find the article again, but husqvarna reccomends anything over 60cc to be ran on 30 or 33 to 1. Really here in the states the epa has driven the lean mix ratios and lean fuel settings. Its a shame really as it doesn't really do the equipment any favors. Now saying that most modern 2 stroke oils do their job very well. That still doesn't negate the need to tune for the mix ratio your running.


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## Charlie Coyote (Jul 14, 2022)

Yes, by all means, tuning the carb for conditions is a must. I do by erring to a rich mix at idle and under full load, so that I hear the saw four stroke when letting up in the cut with an instant response from idle to full throttle. I'm running 40:1 VP Racing 2 cycle and 91 octane straight (non-ethanol) gas. The Echo CS620PW and the Holzfforma G660 PRO seem to like it. Removing the muffler to inspect the piston it's bathed in mix and looks polished. There's no excess carbon anywhere. Always tune 'em.


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