# Loggers... Adapt and overcome?



## Metals406 (May 2, 2009)

I know a lot of you are seeing mills close, and log prices tank (same here), but I'm also seeing some companies adapting to firewood sales.

Forrest (Funky Sawman) in Sandpoint ID, is saying that the logging company he works for is going to cut trees for firewood sales this year. The logging company he works for is out of Whitefish MT, just up the Hwy from me.

A guy in Maine is buying FS contracts and turning all the timber into firewood... He's converted shipping containers into wood fired kilns, and can turn out green wood, into seasoned, in a 4 day cure... He said he's getting $350.00 a cord for kiln dried hardwoods--and he can hardly keep up with orders.

How many of you loggers have thought about this? I've thought about it a lot!! I figure you could start off with two container kilns, set up and ready to go for about $8,500.00 give or take. The expanded metal baskets (for curing the wood in the kilns) would probably cost another $2,500.00--for the steel to fab 2-3 big baskets.

The kilns allow you to market the harvested green wood almost right away, so you can get some cash flow, and start to chew away at some overhead. Obviously, volume is going to be the name of the game here. If you can buy the timber at $3.00 a cord, you could sell it for $150.00 a cord and do well I think? I'm talking conifers here, for the $150.00 a cord example, I'm sure hardwoods would sell for more.

The goal would be to move as much wood as possible in a 6-8 month period. What do you think? Is this a viable option to keep men working in the woods?


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## slowp (May 2, 2009)

A couple of decks of muddy logs sold for $62 per cord yesterday. It was a sealed bid auction. The decks contained a mixture of D-fir and hemlock. I think there were 5 bidders on it.


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## Metals406 (May 2, 2009)

slowp said:


> A couple of decks of muddy logs sold for $62 per cord yesterday. It was a sealed bid auction. The decks contained a mixture of D-fir and hemlock. I think there were 5 bidders on it.



Do you know if that was for wholesale price or if they were the end-users?

I get wood permits up here for 5 bucks a cord from the FS... I don't see why someone would pay 65?


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## Cletuspsc (May 2, 2009)

I have heard of kiln dryed fire wood but never thought of doin it myself.

I have been doing a boat load more split wood since the log prices tanked. But personally I much rather sell fuel wood log length. One thing I have put a lot of thought into is to buy a lumber type boom truck with the pallet forks and deliver split wood stacked on 4'x4' pallets 4' high. It would make deliverys very quick and you could get about 8 to 10 cords on the truck. 

Kilin drying the wood would deffiantly open up another market, especially with the second home owner types.


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## Metals406 (May 2, 2009)

Cletuspsc said:


> I have heard of kiln dryed fire wood but never thought of doin it myself.
> 
> I have been doing a boat load more split wood since the log prices tanked. But personally I much rather sell fuel wood log length. One thing I have put a lot of thought into is to buy a lumber type boom truck with the pallet forks and deliver split wood stacked on 4'x4' pallets 4' high. It would make deliverys very quick and you could get about 8 to 10 cords on the truck.
> 
> Kilin drying the wood would deffiantly open up another market, especially with the second home owner types.



On the boom truck... My thoughts exactly! That's the same thing I have envisioned for delivery... It would give you the ability to deliver pallets of wood, pretty much anywhere.

Great minds think alike.


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## slowp (May 2, 2009)

Metals406 said:


> Do you know if that was for wholesale price or if they were the end-users?
> 
> I get wood permits up here for 5 bucks a cord from the FS... I don't see why someone would pay 65?



Because it was for commercial use. That would be their wholesale,unprocessed price. Then they plan to buck it up and sell it for $200 per cord, and then that buyer will sell it to campers for around $400/cord but he'll sell it by the bundle. The campfire wood market is the highest paying niche around here. 

The wood was stuff that came down in the big slide. 

Tsk, tsk. The $5.00 a cord permit is not supposed to be for commercial use.
It's supposed to be for personal use.


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## Taxmantoo (May 2, 2009)

slowp said:


> It's supposed to be for personal use.



Maybe he was saying "Why buy wood when you can cut it yourself for $5 plus gas/oil?"


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## Ohiowoodguy (May 2, 2009)

Firewood is fine when its going for $200-$350/cord. But there's so many laid-off :censored:guys with a pick-up and Poulan, that go out and get a cord a day, and sell it for $100-$120/cord! They don't care that the national average is (was) $300/cord, they're just trying to feed their kids. You gotta move ALOT of firewood at even $150/cord to show a profit after wages, fuel, and equipment cost- if you're trying to do it as a full time business


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## redprospector (May 2, 2009)

I think that a guy is going to have to diversify if he's going to survive this economy.
I bid on thinning project's when they're available, but I don't have the heart to cut it all into firewood. Soft wood prices for firewood may be $150 to $200 a cord right now, but if logging companies start putting thousands of cords out there and flood the market prices will drop. That's not taking into account that this economy alone may drive firewood prices down.

With all the mill's closing around here, I pulled my old band mill out of moth ball's and put it back to work. Custom sawing & beams is the bread & butter there. It's not much, but it brings in some money and every bit counts. What won't make saw log's get's run through the processor and turned into firewood, along with the slab's. I've been selling The firewood wholesale to a woodlot for $100 a cord. If it's not a long haul I can usually get 9 cords every two day's. I hate dealing with the public, so wholesale is the way to go for me. The slab wood I sell for whatever I can get for it if it will clear expenses. I give a lot of it to elderly folk's who heat with wood, and are on a fixed income.
Now all I need is a thinning project to come up for bid. I'm running short on log's.

I'm not putting all my egg's in one basket.

Andy


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## Kunes (May 2, 2009)

redprospector said:


> I think that a guy is going to have to diversify if he's going to survive this economy.
> I bid on thinning project's when they're available, but I don't have the heart to cut it all into firewood. Soft wood prices for firewood may be $150 to $200 a cord right now, but if logging companies start putting thousands of cords out there and flood the market prices will drop. That's not taking into account that this economy alone may drive firewood prices down.
> 
> With all the mill's closing around here, I pulled my old band mill out of moth ball's and put it back to work. Custom sawing & beams is the bread & butter there. It's not much, but it brings in some money and every bit counts. What won't make saw log's get's run through the processor and turned into firewood, along with the slab's. I've been selling The firewood wholesale to a woodlot for $100 a cord. If it's not a long haul I can usually get 9 cords every two day's. I hate dealing with the public, so wholesale is the way to go for me. The slab wood I sell for whatever I can get for it if it will clear expenses. I give a lot of it to elderly folk's who heat with wood, and are on a fixed income.
> ...



ooh i like the perspective you put it in. i know hope all these companys do not start selling firewood like hotcakes.


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## madhatte (May 2, 2009)

Meanwhile, on the (federal) ownership where I work, we've been seeing up to 50Mbf/section stolen this winter, either as blowdowns or as standing timber. The surrounding towns all have a couple of pickups in parking lots loaded up with split firewood selling for $75-100/cord. Can't prove anything since they leave the bark on the landing. I've been hot enough on their trail before that I could still smell the exhaust in the chips, but they were already gone.


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## Metals406 (May 2, 2009)

slowp said:


> Because it was for commercial use. That would be their wholesale,unprocessed price. Then they plan to buck it up and sell it for $200 per cord, and then that buyer will sell it to campers for around $400/cord but he'll sell it by the bundle. The campfire wood market is the highest paying niche around here.
> 
> The wood was stuff that came down in the big slide.
> 
> ...



Yes, that's why I asked if it was a wholesale deal... And I know that the 5 bucks a cord/12 cord limit is for personal use... And indeed that's what I use it for. I haven't had to cut firewood on National Forests in a number of years, I live on 27 acres, and 18 of it's wooded... I did buy a permit last year, and I never used the blasted thing! 

It's funny you mention personal use, because not one person I know that cuts wood, doesn't at least sell a couple cords a year from the take.


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## Metals406 (May 2, 2009)

My wife just handed me an envelope... Apparently she checked the mail today?

This was inside:

*FRONT*






*BACK*


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## slowp (May 3, 2009)

In the immediate area, kids and others sell it for $120 to $150 a cord. A friend of mine is all excited that it is going for $200 in the Seattle area. But yes, there's going to be a lot of laid off people selling it, and it is a lot of hard work for that $200 plus time and gas trucking it there. 

We sell good saw logs for firewood because it gets through the hoops easier than timber. Supposedly, it is less ground disturbing. The enviro groups hate to see what they perceive as corporations buying timber. They also don't like it when loggers get the job and they are Oregon based. But those so called corporations put a lot of money in our economy. Those out of state loggers rent motel rooms or trailer spaces locally. They often hire local people to help out too. 

We get credit towards meeting our timber target with firewood sales too. It isn't right, but that's what goes on. 

Sometimes the firewood goes to the mill afterall. Sometimes it is specified that it has to be whacked up into firewood chunks prior to leaving the site.
It is another complicated process.


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## Metals406 (May 3, 2009)

slowp said:


> In the immediate area, kids and others sell it for $120 to $150 a cord. A friend of mine is all excited that it is going for $200 in the Seattle area. But yes, there's going to be a lot of laid off people selling it, and it is a lot of hard work for that $200 plus time and gas trucking it there.
> 
> We sell good saw logs for firewood because it gets through the hoops easier than timber. Supposedly, it is less ground disturbing. The enviro groups hate to see what they perceive as corporations buying timber. They also don't like it when loggers get the job and they are Oregon based. But those so called corporations put a lot of money in our economy. Those out of state loggers rent motel rooms or trailer spaces locally. They often hire local people to help out too.
> 
> ...



slowp... Is there a website I can go to, that will help me understand that prospectus they sent me?

I Google Earthed the site, and it's all burn salvage... I know the area quite well, as it's one I hunt every year. The entire area was closed to personal firewood cutting (the fire was 6 years ago), and now I know why... The FS wanted to wait and turn it all into a commercial sale. I know a lot of the timber is merchantable... But they made it a firewood sale due to the crappy lumber market.


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## Metals406 (May 3, 2009)

The dead standing is a lot thicker in places, other than what this picture shows.


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## Jacob J. (May 3, 2009)

redprospector said:


> I think that a guy is going to have to diversify if he's going to survive this economy.
> I bid on thinning project's when they're available, but I don't have the heart to cut it all into firewood. Soft wood prices for firewood may be $150 to $200 a cord right now, but if logging companies start putting thousands of cords out there and flood the market prices will drop. That's not taking into account that this economy alone may drive firewood prices down.
> 
> With all the mill's closing around here, I pulled my old band mill out of moth ball's and put it back to work. Custom sawing & beams is the bread & butter there. It's not much, but it brings in some money and every bit counts. What won't make saw log's get's run through the processor and turned into firewood, along with the slab's. I've been selling The firewood wholesale to a woodlot for $100 a cord. If it's not a long haul I can usually get 9 cords every two day's. I hate dealing with the public, so wholesale is the way to go for me. The slab wood I sell for whatever I can get for it if it will clear expenses. I give a lot of it to elderly folk's who heat with wood, and are on a fixed income.
> ...



There's going to be a lot of fuels reduction contracts out there this summer and fall as well. BLM in central Oregon is planning to put up about 162,000 acres of fuels work in the next month or so, with BIA and NPS throwing substantial amounts in the pot as well. So the diversification factor will play heavily for the area loggers here. I already have a logger lined up to do 5,500 acres in our park.


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## Junior (May 3, 2009)

Ohiowoodguy said:


> Firewood is fine when its going for $200-$350/cord. But there's so many laid-off :censored:guys with a pick-up and Poulan, that go out and get a cord a day, and sell it for $100-$120/cord! They don't care that the national average is (was) $300/cord, they're just trying to feed their kids. You gotta move ALOT of firewood at even $150/cord to show a profit after wages, fuel, and equipment cost- if you're trying to do it as a full time business



Been seeing a lot of that here, every unemployed logger is cutting firewood and driving the price into the ground. Just seen a flyer at the hardware store that said "seasoned mix $75/cord delivered locally"


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## slowp (May 3, 2009)

Metals406 said:


> slowp... Is there a website I can go to, that will help me understand that prospectus they sent me?
> 
> I Google Earthed the site, and it's all burn salvage... I know the area quite well, as it's one I hunt every year. The entire area was closed to personal firewood cutting (the fire was 6 years ago), and now I know why... The FS wanted to wait and turn it all into a commercial sale. I know a lot of the timber is merchantable... But they made it a firewood sale due to the crappy lumber market.



I can't think of a website for that. The best thing to do is to go over it carefully, then call or visit your friendly Timber Sale Administrator, who might be bored right now. I can try to answer some questions if I can blow the thing up to see it. The important thing to remember is: The Prospectus is NOT the contract. If there is a difference, and believe me, there can be some differences, the contract is the document that rules. 

I've got a website pasted up at work for finding out how to get registered for road fixing contracts and stuff. I'll try to post it here tomorrow.


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## Metals406 (May 3, 2009)

slowp said:


> I can't think of a website for that. The best thing to do is to go over it carefully, then call or visit your friendly Timber Sale Administrator, who might be bored right now. I can try to answer some questions if I can blow the thing up to see it. The important thing to remember is: The Prospectus is NOT the contract. If there is a difference, and believe me, there can be some differences, the contract is the document that rules.
> 
> I've got a website pasted up at work for finding out how to get registered for road fixing contracts and stuff. I'll try to post it here tomorrow.



Thanks slowp... I've been researching online all day, and found some stuff I was looking for but not all.

I think, like you said, I'll just go to the FS office. My cousin works there, and I'll pick her brain. I edumecated myself on this stuff today, to the point I'm rather scared! LOL

There's no road building/maintenance stuff on the prospectus, but like you said, it's not the contract. I'll make sure I have a heads up on all possibilities before I even consider bidding. It's not a huge sale (132 acres), but the turnaround is June 15th, to September 30th.

I made some calls today to some guys I know, to see if they'd be up to doing this with me... You know it would break my heart to have to camp all summer, and drop trees all day!! LOL


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## slowp (May 3, 2009)

Here's some things you need to know to bid on that sale.
It is a lump sum sale, you'll have to pay for it in advance of logging. The volume is based on the cruise, so you'll need to work your bid depending on how accurate you think the cruise is. 

Up front, you'll need $100 to bid on the sale. That's the bid guarantee. You get that back if you don't get the sale. If you get the sale, that money goes towards the purchase. It looks like you'll also need(check on this with those guys please because it reads differently than out here) $50 for road maintenance, $50 for slash disposal, a 10% downpayment of the advertised value of the sale (looks like that would be around $38) PLUS 20% of what you bid *over* that rate. The downpayment is held until 25% of the value of the sale is removed, then you can use it either to make a payment or you can get it back. 

Looks like there is an operating restriction. #7 on the bottom. You can't using trails or roads within 2 and a half tree lengths of Glacier Institute roads and trails (whatever that is) May 1 to Oct. 31. Sounds like they don't want ground disturbance there. 

The minimum piece size that you are required to remove to is 4" dbh, 8' long to a 3 inch top and it has to be half sound. 

To convert ccf to mbf *roughly* divide the ccf by 2. There is around 10 CCF on a log truck or 5 mbf. 

I'd still pay a visit to the district and look at the contract and ask them questions. We're supposed to have some uniformity but there are still differences and I don't know about Glacier Institutes--does that mean you'd have to log on snow? Or are they afraid of getting trees dropped on the Institutees? 

Yuck, I had to use reading glasses to read that small print--and it was still hard to read.


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## forestryworks (May 3, 2009)

Metals406 said:


> You know it would break my heart to have to camp all summer, and drop trees all day!! LOL



that sounds like fun


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## funky sawman (May 3, 2009)

It looks like yarder ground to me, Does that job allow yarders or just ground tractor logging?


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## Metals406 (May 3, 2009)

slowp said:


> Here's some things you need to know to bid on that sale.
> It is a lump sum sale, you'll have to pay for it in advance of logging. The volume is based on the cruise, so you'll need to work your bid depending on how accurate you think the cruise is.
> 
> Up front, you'll need $100 to bid on the sale. That's the bid guarantee. You get that back if you don't get the sale. If you get the sale, that money goes towards the purchase. It looks like you'll also need(check on this with those guys please because it reads differently than out here) $50 for road maintenance, $50 for slash disposal, a 10% downpayment of the advertised value of the sale (looks like that would be around $38) PLUS 20% of what you bid *over* that rate. The downpayment is held until 25% of the value of the sale is removed, then you can use it either to make a payment or you can get it back.
> ...



The Glacier Institute thing is because the two sections to be logged border (literally) Glacier National Park. Prime Grizzle Bear country, with a healthy mixing of Mountain Lion and Wolves. Mmmmm, wolves... My favorite.







The whole road and trail thing could turn out to be a huge pain in the ass too. I'm going to ask and see if I can do a 'Payment Unit' to cover the upfront costs? We'll see though.

Thanks for all the info slowp!!


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## funky sawman (May 3, 2009)

It says on that paper the average DBH is 4.9---is that inches I assume? If so that is very small wood and would require the use of a firewood processer to make any money on this sale.


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## Metals406 (May 3, 2009)

funky sawman said:


> It looks like yarder ground to me, Does that job allow yarders or just ground tractor logging?



It's not all that bad... That picture is a bit deceiving. A skidder or Cat could navigate most of it... Lot's of roads in the area to use too.

A forwarder would be kick butt on this one!


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## Metals406 (May 3, 2009)

funky sawman said:


> It says on that paper the average DBH is 4.9---is that inches I assume? If so that is very small wood and would require the use of a firewood processer to make any money on this sale.



Yeah, I don't know? I know the area, and the stuff I've seen would average closer to 12-15 IMO... With some Bigger stuff scattered through.

Might not be worth bidding at all... A guys gonna have to drive up there and walk it to see what it's going to take.

According to slowp's rough estimate (based on the prospectus's rough estimate LOL)... There's 38-39 truckloads to come out'a there.

Average 12 cords a load... $150.00 a cord retail... $69,300.00. Even if you lost 2/3 to expenses... $23,000.00 for 3 months work?

I know they're just numbers... But I'd take less than that for 3 months pay. I'm a simple guy, with simple means.


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## Metals406 (May 3, 2009)

forestryworks said:


> that sounds like fun


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## funky sawman (May 3, 2009)

Sure wish the forest cirkus would do somthing like that in Idaho. Anyways Nate, I am jealous. Nice to see you gots some prospects going.


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## Metals406 (May 3, 2009)

funky sawman said:


> Sure wish the forest cirkus would do somthing like that in Idaho. Anyways Nate, I am jealous. Nice to see you gots some prospects going.



Well hell Forrest, you're just down the street... Come chop some stuff down with me for a month this summer. 

And Idaho would have more stuff like this... You just need more catastrophic wild fires... Who's got some matches? LOL


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## funky sawman (May 3, 2009)

That size timber would be a blast to cut with a 242 or 346 husky. I asked the forest cirkus about small sales and they just tell me to pound sand because the envirocrats are suing them for everything the do and the fact that it takes a log truck load of logs turned into paper for the sale to take place. The ranger told my to try the state office but they have no sales yet.

Firewood is still a thriving market here but I too see the prices dropping due to high supply-----that wont keep me from cutten'. I'll even cut for gas and food and dont care about much profit. I have cut firewood for full time work before and made enough money to buy saws, and eat out every night with the ole lady and still had money for dessert. The main thing to firewood success is getting the most amount of wood out of the woods with the least amount of fuel for the truck, Hence bigger truck that hauls more wood per turn and or a trailer, this will keep overhead cost down.


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## Metals406 (May 4, 2009)

funky sawman said:


> That size timber would be a blast to cut with a 242 or 346 husky. I asked the forest cirkus about small sales and they just tell me to pound sand because the envirocrats are suing them for everything the do and the fact that it takes a log truck load of logs turned into paper for the sale to take place. The ranger told my to try the state office but they have no sales yet.
> 
> Firewood is still a thriving market here but I too see the prices dropping due to high supply-----that wont keep me from cutten'. I'll even cut for gas and food and dont care about much profit. I have cut firewood for full time work before and made enough money to buy saws, and eat out every night with the ole lady and still had money for dessert. The main thing to firewood success is getting the most amount of wood out of the woods with the least amount of fuel for the truck, Hence bigger truck that hauls more wood per turn and or a trailer, this will keep overhead cost down.



My cousin John has 3 logging trucks just sitting there... I have 18 acres to stage the wood on. The biggest problem I see is the logistics of selling said wood in a timely manner... And how many dudes will I bid against on this sale? I'm thinking there's gonna be a lot of competition on this one.

I think I'll head to the FS on Tuesday to see whats up.

I wonder if there's any more of this going on around the country?


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## funky sawman (May 4, 2009)

It might also be an option of selling truck loads of logs. Are those trucks self loaders?


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## Metals406 (May 4, 2009)

funky sawman said:


> It might also be an option of selling truck loads of logs. Are those trucks self loaders?



I wish... I could always buy a loader and fit it on one of the trucks?.. Seems to me a local yard had a loader or two for sale off the truck.

Last time I paid for a load of logs, the guy charged me $260 bucks to load them, and run them roughly 80-100 miles... He had a self loader.

My buddies excavator's just sitting idle... I could probably get him to let it sit here, and use it to unload? Throw him a bone for the use and fuel?

I dunno? Lot's to calculate and figure.

You're right, selling at log length, by the truck, would definitely make it easier.


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## funky sawman (May 4, 2009)

It looked like most of the timber on that sale is lodgepole pine, which I consider decient wood. A guy could mix the larch and other species to make the firewood selling price more. What is firewood going for over their? If it is smaller wood you dont have to split it so that's less work. How many miles is it from a major city?


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## spencerhenry (May 4, 2009)

that sounds like a post and pole sale. you will get way more out of poles than firewood. i get timber sale notices frequently but in this log market i wont cut it unless i get paid to cut it and take the logs also. to buy the timber around here is foolish, there is plenty of private property that can be cut for free. but you still have to sell the logs. i just bought a load of big dry lodgepole, butts up to 20" delivered with a self loader was $2000. the small stuff like poles goes for about $1500 right now. but the end market? no one is buying in quantity. big spruce, now that is something that may still have a market, we will have to see what happens to that this summer.


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## Metals406 (May 4, 2009)

spencerhenry said:


> that sounds like a post and pole sale. you will get way more out of poles than firewood. i get timber sale notices frequently but in this log market i wont cut it unless i get paid to cut it and take the logs also. to buy the timber around here is foolish, there is plenty of private property that can be cut for free. but you still have to sell the logs. i just bought a load of big dry lodgepole, butts up to 20" delivered with a self loader was $2000. the small stuff like poles goes for about $1500 right now. but the end market? no one is buying in quantity. big spruce, now that is something that may still have a market, we will have to see what happens to that this summer.



Post and pole is in the toilet here as well... One of the surviving mills here is looking for a lot of Piss Fir this summer... I haven't heard about anyone wanting spruce.

I think firewood will be the best seller... Lot's of folks here (and everywhere) are switching back to wood for heat because it's cheap... Especially when you don't have a job--and the power or gas company can't take your heat away.

I'll have to check this sale out more thoroughly, to see if a guy can make a dollar or two?


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## slowp (May 4, 2009)

Here is a site that starts the vortex of contracting information. Not Timber Sale, but other types. Scroll down and click on what you might be interested in.
http://www.fs.fed.us/gpnf/purchasing/


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## Metals406 (May 5, 2009)

slowp said:


> Here is a site that starts the vortex of contracting information. Not Timber Sale, but other types. Scroll down and click on what you might be interested in.
> http://www.fs.fed.us/gpnf/purchasing/



Thanks again slowp... You're the tops for looking for me. 

I'm going in to the FS tomorrow to go over every detail of the sale. There's a commercial firewood processor in the valley, and if he'd buy all the timber in tree length, this just might be worth doing.

Either way, I'd have to have some operating capitol (LOC) from my bank... And if they said no, then I wouldn't be able to do it anyway.


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## Metals406 (May 5, 2009)

Well, I've been on the phone all day looking into this sale. There's a mill that'll buy it all for $35.00 a ton (pulp)... But the haul is 280 miles round trip. The trucks gonna want 400-500 bucks per haul... And he can probably only get 18 ton on per load cause this is all dry fire kill.

It's not looking great, but it doesn't mean it's not worth doing yet.

I have a call in to a firewood processor that would take all the white wood... I'm waiting for him to call me back, and let me know what he pays a ton? He'd be waaaay closer to haul to.

I talked with the the guy I use, with the self loader--for like a hour. He said all the loggers he knows aren't working at all, and one guy was talking about trying to go to Washington to log for Weyerhaeuser.

I called Plum Creek and the Forester/buyer said he didn't even know if they'd buy any wood this year at all!!

More research is needed to see If I could maybe make a buck or two for 3 months or so of work?


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## Metals406 (May 9, 2009)

Metals406 said:


> Well, I've been on the phone all day looking into this sale. There's a mill that'll buy it all for $35.00 a ton (pulp)... But the haul is 280 miles round trip. The trucks gonna want 400-500 bucks per haul... And he can probably only get 18 ton on per load cause this is all dry fire kill.
> 
> It's not looking great, but it doesn't mean it's not worth doing yet.
> 
> ...



Talked with the firewood guy... He'd buy the whole sale for 47 bucks a ton... Definitely makes it, possibly, worth bidding. Also talked with the lead FS forester on this sale, and he filled me in on a lot of stuff.

I found the multiplier for CCF to MBF... It's around .427... I figure there's around 1,200 to 1,300 cord on this sale. Very few provisions on the FS end of the sale... No slashing, road maintenance, or building. Some rehab with some grass seeding.

It's a closed bid sale followed by oral auction... The Forester said it's that way, because everyone will bid the minimum, so the oral auction will be needed to see who really wants to pay to get it. Part of the sale has to be done in the winter... Which I'm not too excited about. 

I want to go walk the sale... I'm just waiting on the 'bid package' to come in the mail... It'll have maps, etc... Hopefully unit boundaries are clearly marked? If not, I'll have to see if slowp wants to come over and hang blue tape? LOL :greenchainsaw:


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## Metals406 (May 9, 2009)

*Mmmmm... Butt.... Cuts.*



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## Rowan (May 9, 2009)

*This company has always done some firewood... lots this year.*

Drive by...


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## Metals406 (May 9, 2009)

That's a lot of firewood!! The guy here does all whitewood... Said he produces 2,800 to 3,000 cord a season.


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