# Quad Cab pickups?



## bytehoven

Would anyone care to comment on there favorite Quad Cab pickup?

I am looking for something used and have a couple on my short list.

2005 Dodge 2500 Power Wagon
2004-2005 Totyota Tundra

I'd love to hear which other quad cabs I should take a look at.

I could get by with a short bed, and I love something with decent road manners as well as trail worthy. That's what has kinda shaped my short list so far.

I'm 6'5 and I have a little trouble ducking in/out of the smaller fram pickups like the Dakota, Tacoma, etc. I need something with a nice tall entry so I can enter/exit without needing to manipulate my head.

I'm not in a hurry and if there is a automotive price meltdown like we saw a short time ago, I might be tempted to buy something new. However, I would prefer to get something used.


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## rahtreelimbs

Out of your 2 choices.......

2005 Dodge 2500 Power Wagon

2004-2005 Totyota Tundra

I would go with the Tundra. I personally own a '01 Silverado 1500 Extend Cab, I like the truck!!!

The Hemi is not known for great gas mileage.


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## wdchuck

At 6', 200, I like my '01 f250. My first p/u with supercab-shortbox, the other two were longbed and the ride was better, much less front-to-rear bounce. It'll be a long bed again next time around. 

I like the seat closer, if you like it back then the ford quad gets tight for the rear passenger.


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## LarryTheCableGuy

I am very pleased with my '06 Tundra DoubleCab.

.


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## begleytree

I think the nissan Titan has the most inside room out of all of them. my choice would be the F-350.
-Ralph


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## treeslayer666

*Dodge 3500 cummins quad*

I love it. The dodge ride and interior has it over ford and gmc.
Toyota is not an option.


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## OTG BOSTON

*Toyota is #1*



begleytree said:


> I think the nissan Titan has the most inside room out of all of them. my choice would be the F-350.
> -Ralph



There was a report on the national news last night about how Toyota is about to surpass GM in total sales worldwide. This was attributed to three things: quality, reliability, and innovation. The best part is TOYOTAS ARE MADE HERE!!!!!!!

Anyway, I bought a used Tundra TRD '03 last Feb. It is by far the best truck I have ever owned. It replaced an Explorer '97 (was nickle and diming me to death) and is far superior to the Dakota I owned before that.

Downside, I am going to court today to protest a speeding ticket. That [email protected]#ker is sneaky fast!


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## begleytree

the chevy/gmc pickups with the 4.3L gasser is also getting 200-300K miles as well.
-Ralph


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## wdchuck

begleytree said:


> the chevy/gmc pickups with the 4.3L gasser is also getting 200-300K miles as well.
> -Ralph



Add to that the 210K that my F250, 5.4L gasser has, still going strong, and no signs of quitting any time soon.


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## Rooshooter

For what it's worth, I run a Ford Courier not sure if you have them in the US, My first one a 4x2 2.2 diesel 320K still going strong, Second one 4x4 2.5 turbo diesel 200K - just run in - the 4x4 started out as a pickup then converted to flatbed with a 7' x 6' tray we also have beefed up rear suspension in the models here and i have had up to 5000lb in the back and still haven't broken it ! 
Rooshooter .....(+)


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## bytehoven

I wish our auto makers offered the smaller diesel engines.


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## chowdozer

Rooshooter said:


> For what it's worth, I run a Ford Courier not sure if you have them in the US, My first one a 4x2 2.2 diesel 320K still going strong, Second one 4x4 2.5 turbo diesel 200K - just run in - the 4x4 started out as a pickup then converted to flatbed with a 7' x 6' tray we also have beefed up rear suspension in the models here and i have had up to 5000lb in the back and still haven't broken it !
> Rooshooter .....(+)



What's that big orange light on the front for?


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## Rooshooter

The small diesels reasonably popular away from the cities and most of the Jap makers have them in pickups, we don't need anything that will do 100mph out in the scrub. The orange on the Bosch spotlight is just a stone guard - it slides into 4 spring clips.
Rooshooter ..... (+)


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## OTG BOSTON

chowdozer said:


> What's that big orange light on the front for?



I'd guess its for spotting 'roos at night.


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## jefeVTtreeman

as a part time mechanic up here in vermont i would not touch anything dodge. I know the power wagon kicks ass with all the goodies but underneath it is still a troublesome dodge. Toyota's have a great rep up here but parts are expensive, the new tundra seems amazing and would run propbably same as power wagon new. Check consumer reports. i love ford 250 and 350 because everything is big and hd, parts are easy to find and cheap at the junk yards, everyone plows with fords up here. Chevys are nice drivers but dont last, the eight liters sucks oil bad too. anything diesel gets a thumbs up!


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## spacemule

jefeVTtreeman said:


> as a part time mechanic up here in vermont i would not touch anything dodge. I know the power wagon kicks ass with all the goodies but underneath it is still a troublesome dodge.


Dodge makes good and bad just like every other maker. Your statement is asinine and myopic to say the least.


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## bytehoven

jefeVTtreeman said:


> i love ford 250 and 350 because everything is big and hd, parts ar



OK, let's say I can focus on something finding a a nice used Ford 250 with a crew or super cab... how far back can I go in years? What kind of milage should I consider to be the max?

I have a 99' Durango with on 38K miles, so you can see how few miles I will be putting on the rig.

I could potentially keep the D and get the pickup as a 3rd vehicle, but because I drive so very little, I worry about a having a 3rd vehicle that would sit too much.


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## OTG BOSTON

*Test Drive*

Test drive the Tundra. The thing rides like a sports car, and performs like a truck.

Test drive them all for that matter, it won't cost you anything.

I like the fact that Toyota/Lexus certifies their pre-owned (read as used) vehicles. Which means they are gone over for anything wrong that may not be obvious at time of sale.

I work with a lot of "Truck Guys" and take tons of S#!T for driving a Toyota. I don't care, I like my truck. Plenty of power, plenty of interior space, not bad on gas. None of 'em will race me though........................


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## bytehoven

Thanks everyone for the posts.

I have a '05 crew cab tundra I can test drive with just under 20K miles.

After reading some reviews from newer tundra owners, it seems the truck is far from perfect.

I will definitely drive all of the trucks on my short list.

Thanks again.


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## OTG BOSTON

bytehoven said:


> Thanks everyone for the posts.
> 
> I have a '05 crew cab tundra I can test drive with just under 20K miles.
> 
> After reading some reviews from newer tundra owners, it seems the truck is far from perfect.
> 
> I will definitely drive all of the trucks on my short list.
> 
> Thanks again.



What sorts of problems are they having???


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## bytehoven

The concensus seemed to identify the following happening to the vehicle...

- gas milage dropped (could have just been dirty air filter)
- increased noise in cabin
- road handling worsened including more noise from the vehicle
- had trouble pulling loads that a previous truck with the same general engine had no trouble (maybe related to fuel economy issue above)

In general, they felt the extra $$$ for the Toyota name did not translate as with other Toyota products.

I should probably visit a few more review sites just to make sure my current finding wasn't a biased effort.

I'm gonna drive a new '06, an '04 with 65K and an '05 with 20K. That should give me a good idea of how the vehicle changes over time.

EDIT: One thing I did notice about the '04 for sale in my neighborhood, there was a good bit of rust in the bed areas where the bedliner opens for the hook loops. I also noticed alot of rust around the disk brake components and rotors, where I have very little on my '99 Durango. This could be because the truck has been sitting for awhile, since the owner is now commuting with another vehicle.


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## OTG BOSTON

bytehoven said:


> The concensus seemed to identify the following happening to the vehicle...
> 
> - gas milage dropped (could have just been dirty air filter)
> - increased noise in cabin
> - road handling worsened including more noise from the vehicle
> - had trouble pulling loads that a previous truck with the same general engine had no trouble (maybe related to fuel economy issue above)
> 
> In general, they felt the extra $$$ for the Toyota name did not translate as with other Toyota products.
> 
> I should probably visit a few more review sites just to make sure my current finding wasn't a biased effort.
> 
> I'm gonna drive a new '06, an '04 with 65K and an '05 with 20K. That should give me a good idea of how the vehicle changes over time.
> 
> EDIT: One thing I did notice about the '04 for sale in my neighborhood, there was a good bit of rust in the bed areas where the bedliner opens for the hook loops. I also noticed alot of rust around the disk brake components and rotors, where I have very little on my '99 Durango. This could be because the truck has been sitting for awhile, since the owner is now commuting with another vehicle.




I haven't had any of those problems, knock on wood. Mine is a 03 TRD with 50k mi. Just put new tires on it, rides like a dream.

Happy hunting!


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## bytehoven

Having gone trough some tires on various trucks, I know they can make a great deal of noise, and get louder as they wear.

For instance. I put a set of Michelin LTX AT 32" tires on my D when I bought it. There is a tire dealer right next the Durango factory in Newark, DE which gave me full credit for the OEM Goodyear tires. Sweet Deal.

Anyway, the ATs could really whine, but they are great off-road.

Last spring I switched to the LTX MS tire, same tire dealer and a great price . Talk about a night and day difference. The D now handles and sounds more like a quite passenger car.

So, perhaps the Tundra complaints where the fault of the tires.


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## treeslayer666

*Dodge 3500 cummins H/O diesel quad cab*

Funny, I bought my dodge new in March 04. Not one problem. Has not been in the shop other than oil changes and brake pads at around 50k. It's got around 68k miles now and is used for pulling my stump grinder, estimate runner, and plows in the winter.(so far not this winter thank god).
This is my second Dodge diesel and they seem to treat me right.
The new fords are nice but the interior is sh*ty compared to the Dodge.
And if you don't plug in the powerstroke in the winter it aint starting in the A.M. Dodge does not have a block heater. Cummins starts no prob.
This morning it was 3 degrees and it fired right up. One of my guys called me this morning he plugged in his 04 powerstroke last night but forgot to turn the power switch on. Took him an hour to get it running.


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## PA Plumber

I have a 2004 Toyota Tundra 4 door. 28,000 miles. Purchases Nov. of 2003. My truck has sat outside everyday of its life. No rust that you mentioned. I do have a spray on rhino liner in the bed.

Lots of times I have loaded 2/3 of a cord of red oak in the bed and it will haul it. Is it heavy? You bet, but the truck will handle it. I just am a lot more cautious with that kind of load.

I have used my truck to pull large logs and disk my food plot. I have had chevys and Fords. A few weeks ago I added an extra leaf spring and it handles a tow better than any truck I have had.

A friend just bought a dodge with the hemi 5 speed. 21 mpg. Wow, very impressive. My truck gets about 15 to 17.5 mpg.


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## Rooshooter

OTG BOSTON said:


> I'd guess its for spotting 'roos at night.



Yep, A real problem of a night, you have to be able to see them, hence also 2 150w aircraft landing lights on the bullbar. One stretch of road abt 40 miles i can see up to 400 - 500 'roos feeding on the roadside after dark.
Rooshooter ...... (+)


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## dhoganjr

*Dodge's for me*

I love my '04.5 Ram 3500 Quad Cab 4x4 single rear wheel with the Cummins 600. For a 7000lb truck, hits 60 off the line in a hair over 10 seconds. Could have done with a 2500, but the 3500 only cost me $200 more new. 

Currently have 47,000 miles on it, not a single problem so far. I pull my 7x14 cargo trailer with my 18ft 60in wide jet boat attached to it, and you can barely tell they are there. The cargo trailer has electric brakes on both axles so it stops about as well as being unloaded.

I build the Rams at Fenton, Mo (near St. Louis). Engine block heaters are standard equipment for all Canadian trucks, optional for all trucks sold in the states. The Cummins has a heated grid that allows it to start down to -20 degrees F.

If I keep close to the speed limit I can get around 23 MPG, but around 70-80ish its between 19-20 MPG.

Oh, btw all Cummins after '04.5 have a block heater, they just don't have the cord to make it work. You can buy one from the dealer for, I think around $30. There is a cap over where it plugs in right above and a little forward of the oil filter. Gets heat in the cab alot quicker on cold mornings.

The Mega Cabs are great too, the most leg room in the class. The rear seats even recline. They are the same length as a quad cab long bed. I just don't like the turning radius.

As for as racing the Toyota, lets both hook up to a 15,000lb trailer, then anytime :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


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## OTG BOSTON

dhogan, 

Have you noticed a difference in quality since the dalmer(sp) merger?

My 95 dakota had a lot of the same parts as my grandmothers K car.


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## dhoganjr

*DaimlerChrysler merger*



> Have you noticed a difference in quality since the dalmer(sp) merger?



I believe the quality has improved significantly. I started in '95 before the merger. Merger formed DaimlerChrysler in 98-99, can't remember now exactly which year.

In the last several years more Mercedes engineering and parts have been integrated into the Chrysler, Jeep and Dodge line-up. The Chrysler group division still has its headquarters in Detroit, seperate from the Mercedes-Benz division and so on. But the car platforms are starting to share drivetrains and parts, mostly noted in the Chrysler 300's, Dodge Magnum, Dodge Charger and the soon to be Dodge Challenger.

As for the Truck division, I can really only speak for the Rams, but have a couple of friends who have bought Dakotas and they love them. I ordered my first Ram in '01 right after the body style change. It was an '02 Ram 1500 regular cab short bed 4X4 with the 5.9L 360 and 3.92 gears with anti-spin, I put a K&N filter kit on it and a 40 series Flowmaster with dual 4" tips. It was super-fast, sounded awesome and loved the gas around 11MPG, 1-2 more if you kept your foot out of it, 8-9 pulling the boat. Only problem I ever had with it was the cluster went bad at 3000 miles, was a vendor issue, most had been contained in the plant and changed out, I guess a few slipped by. When you build and ship around 800 trucks a day, it happens occasionally, but usually is contained in Cassens (our transport company) before they get shipped. I traded it in for the '04.5 in June of '04. Had it a little over 2.5years and it had 40,000 miles at trade-in.

We have had big quality gains year over year since the merger, so the trend is going in the right direction. 

Hope this helps and hope I answered your question.


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## bytehoven

I had a full day.

I test drove a few Tundras, a couple of F250s and a half dozen Ram 2500s.

Of the lot, I like the Ram 2500 trucks the best, preferrring the 5.7 Hemi to the Cummins Diesel. Although the Cummins was real nice, I'm hooked on the feel and sound of the big V8. :hmm3grin2orange: I also drove a 1500 just to make sure I really wanted the larger RAM.

My dealer where I bought my '99D, had (12) '06 2500s on the lot, so I had a pretty good selection. I settled on a Silver 4x4 Quad Cab SLT Short Bed and started talking $$$.

The truck list for $36,885. My sales guy came to me with a price of $32,000. 

I said I would have to do some research and come back to them with an offer.

The GM came over and asked if I was prepared to buy the truck if he offered a great deal and I said yes. He came back a few minutes later and offered the truck for $27,941. WOW! $9k off the sticker. This was his cost, (-) the dealer holdback, (-) the current total cash incentive from Dodge. He said I would never be able to get a lower price unless Dodge offered more cash to dealers. 

I honored my commitment to buy a great deal and will pick up the truck on Saturday. :hmm3grin2orange: 

There were a few used '04 - '05 & '06 2500s with 20K-50K miles, but none were below $20K and most were beat up pretty good. So it' seemed to make the most sense buying a new '06 with a discount almost equal to the immediate depreciation I'll get driving it off the lot.

Now I'll polish up my '99 Durango and see what I can fetch in the local paper.

Thanks for the advice guys.


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## dhoganjr

*Congrats*

Congratulations, I think you'll enjoy it. The 2500 Hemi's have a throatier exhaust sound than the 1500's because of EPA restrictions. The 1500's have an extra baffle after the muffler to cut down sound. 

We are also coming out with a 6.7L Cummins to replace the 5.9L. It will be a '07.5 Ram 2500/3500. It will have a six speed manual or six speed automatic with a toggle switch on the shift lever to let you manually shift gears to keep you in the rpm range you want, especially for towing and down hill grades, etc. It will also have the first factory optional exhaust brake.

Again due to EPA restrictions, with the new '07 emissions taking effect, the extra emission control devices cut down on available HP and Torque. The 6.7L is supposed to have around 350hp and 650ft/lbs of torque.

Sorry, I'll quit rambling now, enjoy your truck. Let us know how you like it when you get it.


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## bytehoven

The diesel sound, feel and shifting is definitely an acquired taste.  The 5 speed automatic with the shifting options you mentioned would very interesting.

I have very few diesel stations close to me. I think the closest station is about 10 minutes away. 

I had thought about having diesel delivered to the house a couple hundered gallons at a time.  But I never looked into if I could buy automotive grade diesel the way one can easily buy home heating fuel. Maybe I'm a chowder head and they're the same thing. :biggrinbounce2: 

The dealer mentioned the new model year Cummins engine going up in price, but he didn't mention why.  Something probably worth waiting on for diesel lovers.

I wonder though... how are Cummins drive tranes out of the gate as far as new technology?

BTW: What are your thoughts on an extended warranty? Based on my Durango experience, I had all of my problems show up in the 3 year/36000 period, or in my 6 & 7th year. As a result, I'm inclined to pass on the warranty unless they gave it to me real cheap.


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## dhoganjr

*Emissions and extended warranties*



> I have very few diesel stations close to me. I think the closest station is about 10 minutes away.



I can average over 600 miles on a tank of fuel with my quad cab shortbed, it has a 34 gallon tank, so you can pass a few stations. I really love that now, alot less fill-ups. My 360 regular cab shortbed had a 26 gallon tank, about 230 miles max.



> The dealer mentioned the new model year Cummins engine going up in price, but he didn't mention why. Something probably worth waiting on for diesel lovers.



All has to do with meeting the new '07 diesel emission requirements, all the diesel manufacturers are scrambling to try and meet them. They are having to add egr systems and extra emission systems, all at sacrificing power. That is why they are increasing engine sizes, to compensate for the power losses. Kind of like what happened to the gas engines of the late 70's, early 80's. So they are passing on some of the extra cost to the consumer.



> I wonder though... how are Cummins drive tranes out of the gate as far as new technology?



I know the transmission is a new model, manufactured by Aisen and the rest of the drivetrain is Dodge. Cummins stays up with their technology pretty well and they have reps in our plant, they deal with any issues that arise with the engine itself, we are not allowed to touch them. That is in their contract with us.



> BTW: What are your thoughts on an extended warranty? Based on my Durango experience, I had all of my problems show up in the 3 year/36000 period, or in my 6 & 7th year. As a result, I'm inclined to pass on the warranty unless they gave it to me real cheap.



I would pass on the extended warranty unless they offer a great deal. You can wait till the factory warranty is about to end and see how things go, you can always add one later, if you start having problems. I bought one on a Neon, and ended up selling the car before the factory warranty was up. The buyer didn't want to pay any extra for the warranty. I sold the extended warranty back to the company that sold it and they charged me for the miles already on it even though it had never been used due to the factory warranty. Was close to a $1000 I lost on it, haven't bought one since. I do most of my repair work anyway, so not really worth it to me.

Just my $.02 worth


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## OTG BOSTON

*Thanks*



dhoganjr said:


> I believe the quality has improved significantly. I started in '95 before the merger. Merger formed DaimlerChrysler in 98-99, can't remember now exactly which year.
> 
> In the last several years more Mercedes engineering and parts have been integrated into the Chrysler, Jeep and Dodge line-up. The Chrysler group division still has its headquarters in Detroit, seperate from the Mercedes-Benz division and so on. But the car platforms are starting to share drivetrains and parts, mostly noted in the Chrysler 300's, Dodge Magnum, Dodge Charger and the soon to be Dodge Challenger.
> 
> As for the Truck division, I can really only speak for the Rams, but have a couple of friends who have bought Dakotas and they love them. I ordered my first Ram in '01 right after the body style change. It was an '02 Ram 1500 regular cab short bed 4X4 with the 5.9L 360 and 3.92 gears with anti-spin, I put a K&N filter kit on it and a 40 series Flowmaster with dual 4" tips. It was super-fast, sounded awesome and loved the gas around 11MPG, 1-2 more if you kept your foot out of it, 8-9 pulling the boat. Only problem I ever had with it was the cluster went bad at 3000 miles, was a vendor issue, most had been contained in the plant and changed out, I guess a few slipped by. When you build and ship around 800 trucks a day, it happens occasionally, but usually is contained in Cassens (our transport company) before they get shipped. I traded it in for the '04.5 in June of '04. Had it a little over 2.5years and it had 40,000 miles at trade-in.
> 
> We have had big quality gains year over year since the merger, so the trend is going in the right direction.
> 
> Hope this helps and hope I answered your question.




I like the looks of the newer dodge trucks. I'll give them a closer look next time I'm in the market!


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## treeslayer666

*dodge 3500 cummins 600 miles a tank?*

dhoganjr, You are getting 600 miles to the tank. What am I doing wrong? I'm lucky to get 350!!! I do a lot of city driving & estimate running. What are you running for tires? Let me know what you think, maybe there is a problem.


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## CUCV

A friend of mine has a powerwagon, all I can say is that it changed my opinion on Dodge. It can't replace my Duramax but if I didn't need the towing and load capacity and neglecting fuel cost I would be interested in a power wagon. My friends gets 14mpg very consistantly. Not bad considering the engine and gearing.


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## bytehoven

The Power Wagon is very nice, but they really hit ya for some extra $$$.

There was (1) '06 Power Wagon in my area, it listed for almost $43K, and the dealer was not willing to budge. Even if he had been willing to meet the discount of my dealer, the PW would have been almost $6k more. Granted the larger tires, 4.56 gears, front & rear remote lockers, front sway bar disconnect are tasty upgrades.


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## dhoganjr

*Treeslayer*



> You are getting 600 miles to the tank. What am I doing wrong? I'm lucky to get 350!!! I do a lot of city driving & estimate running. What are you running for tires Let me know what you think, maybe there is a problem.


What year is your truck? Mine is an '04.5 Cummins 600 with automatic trans. A buddy had the same year in a 2500. He was getting less fuel economy and went to the dealer and told them and they ended up re-flashing the NGC(computer). He gained about 5 MPG. After he told me I took mine in to the same dealer and told them I was getting poor fuel economy. They re-flashed mine and I gained 2-3 MPG. Something about the '04.5 models not using one of the banks in the NGC, the new programming corrected it. Something you might check out.

The tires are the stock BFG 265/70R17's. Only thing I have done to it is put on a TrueFlow cold air kit. I live in a rural area 75 miles from work. Don't do much city driving. City driving alone will cut down on it alot. Everytime you stop, you have 7000lbs of weight to get moving again. You get the best fuel economy below 1900 RPM's. Really cuts down on economy if your heavy on the accelerator leaving stop signs and lights. This all makes a major difference in a tank of fuel.

Most of my driving is unloaded, not many stops, not alot of shifting all the time. It drops when I'm pulling my cargo trailer by about 5-6 MPG depending on how I'm driving.

Hope this helps!!!


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## bytehoven

OK...

1st major truck mod will happen Monday when I put a set of 305/65R17 BFG T/A KOs on the Ram. :hmm3grin2orange: Well, maybe that's only a mini mod, but it will certainly help off road, as well as provide better on road manners than the Rugged Trail tires.

The tire dealer next to the Dodge factory here, is cutting me a trade in deal like he did with my '99 Durango. 

I did call a few other tire stores, and almost all of them were willing to take my new tires on trade. The final net cost was different from dealer to dealer, but it's something to consider if the stock rubber needs a tweak.

Now all I need is a couple of skid plates and I'll be ready for some familiar trails.

:biggrinbounce2:


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## dhoganjr

*Update on Thread #32*

Slipped up on Thread #32. Originally said new 6.7L Cummins would have a new 5-speed auto. It will have a 6-speed automatic. Edited previous thread to show the correct info.

Also you can't really tell it's a diesel when it's running. As quiet, if not quieter than a gas engine. And they eliminated the high-pitched chirp when you shut the engine off.


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## treeslayer666

*BFG A/T K/O's*

bytehoven, I just took the 285/70/17 bfg ko's off my 04 ram 3500 yesterday. They ride like sh*t and drop your fuel mileage and I don't know if you plow snow or not but they are the worst tire ever in snow. I went to toyo A/T's stock size 265/70/17. The ride difference is unbelievable. Rides like a caddy.


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## bytehoven

Hi Tree....

What is about tires. Having read reviews on almost every tire, you'll find people that say what you're saying on every tire, as well as someone saying they're the best tire on the planet.

The KO seems to have the edge with almost 2x the number of reviews of any other truck tire, yet still rates in the top 10 or higher in every review I have been able to find.

I hear what you're saying, but it's confusing to see polorization on every brand and model.

It's as if there are folks who are biased as well as fan boys. Know what I mean?

I know folks who swear by the KO tire on road, as well as off road. One friend who only likes the Michelin LTX M/S better for on-road.

How do you explain your experience with the mountain of positive reviews on the KO? I would love to know why there are folks who hate them.


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## treeslayer666

*BFG A/T KO's*

I only got 15000 miles out of those tires. They are good off road but you sacrifice on road ride, fuel mileage and don't go anywhere in the snow.
The stock bfg rugged trails were awesome on and off road and great in the snow. The ko's packed with snow when they were brand new, my truck was all over the place while plowing. I was going to put on new rugged trails but a good friend swears bu the toyo's. It feels like your gliding down the road compared to the KO'S.


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## bytehoven

Tree...

Taking you advice to heart, I took the new 2500 out for a spin tonight in our 1st snow of the year. It's a freezing wet snow which has turned slick pretty fast.

I also took out my Durango which has Michelin LTX M/S tires.

The Rugged Trail tires performed better than the LTX M/S. I think I know partially why. The LT265/70/17 have a slightly narrower section width than the 31"x10.50x15 LTX M/S as well as blockier edges. So with the heavier 2500 the Rugged Trails appear to bite through the snow to the asphault better.

This was particularly evident when stopping. The LTX M/S would call on the D's ABS almost all the time, while the 2500 stopped more frequently without any ABS assistance.

The Rugged Trails actually performed very well. I am impressed.

I have some serious thinking to do and probably won't get much sleep tonight.

 

I could certainly spend the BFG KO upgrade money on something else.

Hmmmmmm....


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## dhoganjr

My Rugged Trails now have almost 48,000 miles with about a quarter of the tread left. They handle very well in the snow and have good manners on the road.

Still probably going to go with the **** Cepek F/C II's when they finally wear out though.


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## bytehoven

Yeah, I'm gonna pass on the tire trade and put the $$$ info some fender flares, fender well liners for the rear, step bars for the kids in/out, some bed storage, mud flaps, etc... 

I'll just watch the DodgeTalk website classifieds for anyone selling tires in my neck of the woods. Maybe I can pick up a good deal on tires & rims from someone making a serious upgrade to their Ram.

The other thing I didn't consider with running a larger tire than 265, I wouldn't be able to run chains, which is sometimes required to get into the Monogahila National Park during a bad snow fall. We go hunting their in the fall, it can get pretty nasty.

Thanks again for your help.


----------



## treeslayer666

*Bfg Ko's*

I bought the ko's in the fall of 05 expecting great performance in the snow. I couldn't believe how thy just packed with snow. I would have been better off leaving the rugged trails on with 1/4 tread left but I had the tire place junk them. Buy the way the ko's were 285/70/17. The new toyo's are stock size 265/70/17. The place where I buy tires gives you 30 days to to test drive. Hopefully we get some plowable snow soon cause if these toyo's don't live up to my expectations I'm putting on some new rugged trails.
Ive seen those **** creeks around but they are mud tires right?
Allot of hillbilly's west of here have them on their 1978 full size blazer monster trucks with KC lights and confederate flags flying.
Let me know cause I'm looking for the best all around tire I can get for my truck.


----------



## dhoganjr

*Treeslayer*

This link should take you to their web site:
http://www.dickcepek.com/FC_Radial.html

They are kind of in between an all-terrain and a mud terrain tire. There is a shop about 2 miles from my house that sells them. There are more sizes other than what is listed on the site. I think they have 265/70R17 and 285/70R17 both in class E load range. There are several people around here that run them.

I plan on getting them, but am going to get a few more $ out of the rugged trails first.


----------



## bytehoven

OK... I think I found a new owner for my '99 Durango for $9500. Schweet!  A little less than I was asking, but still way more then the dealer was offering as a trade in.


----------



## Treeman587

bytehoven said:


> Would anyone care to comment on there favorite Quad Cab pickup?
> 
> I am looking for something used and have a couple on my short list.
> 
> 2005 Dodge 2500 Power Wagon
> 2004-2005 Totyota Tundra
> 
> I'd love to hear which other quad cabs I should take a look at.
> 
> I could get by with a short bed, and I love something with decent road manners as well as trail worthy. That's what has kinda shaped my short list so far.
> 
> I'm 6'5 and I have a little trouble ducking in/out of the smaller fram pickups like the Dakota, Tacoma, etc. I need something with a nice tall entry so I can enter/exit without needing to manipulate my head.
> 
> I'm not in a hurry and if there is a automotive price meltdown like we saw a short time ago, I might be tempted to buy something new. However, I would prefer to get something used.



DODGE all the way. I have a PW. Will whip a Tundra any day. You buy a Yota you will be kickin yourself later. Just look underneath the two of them and you will see. Solid Axle vs. Independent. Does your dump truck have an Independent front end? Skid Plates, Lockers, 2400lb Bed capacity, Tows way more. You wont be sorry


----------



## Treeman587

bytehoven said:


> The Power Wagon is very nice, but they really hit ya for some extra $$$.
> 
> There was (1) '06 Power Wagon in my area, it listed for almost $43K, and the dealer was not willing to budge. Even if he had been willing to meet the discount of my dealer, the PW would have been almost $6k more. Granted the larger tires, 4.56 gears, front & rear remote lockers, front sway bar disconnect are tasty upgrades.




Got mine NEW for $32,900. (Sticker was $42,005)


----------



## Treeman587

I just found you already bought a Dodge. Congratulations, enjoy.


----------



## bytehoven

Yes... I got a nice 2500 4x4 QC SB in bright silver. 

The best deal I could find on a new PW was $34K on vehicle that listed for $44K. This was a little more than $6k over my rig, which was too much for me to spend. I wanted to keep my purchase at $30k or less, since I paid cash.

I do have a chance to buy a white PW which listed for just under $47, for $29,500. It only has 1500 miles and is a month old. The seller is a Chrysler employee who got the vehicle at a terriffic discount but doesn't like the color and wants heated seats. Hell, for the $$$ he is gonna lose, he could paint the thing and buy new seats. 

I have been trying to sell my 2500 with only 500 miles, and I haven't gotten any nibbles. I'm gonna try one more week and then just wave bye-bye to the white PW.

If I knew for sure there was a better time period to sell my 2500, say in the spring, I might be willing to own (2) trucks for a short time. But I just hate having to take a bath on my 2500 just to sell it.

I leave the white PW deal in the hands of fate. I will be happy if I end up keeping my Silver 2500. I've already started adding mods... step rails, Mopar 12,000/1200 hitch, rear wheel liners and bed caps. 

I have the following mods on my short list, fender flares (not sure about leaving them black or matching to paint), mud flaps, front hitch, and something for the bed, be it side boxes, cover, cap or some combination.

I put 400lbs of sand in the back for the winter, but I like what the weight does for the ride, so I might leave some weight in the bed at all times.


----------



## rb_in_va

bytehoven said:


> Yes... I got a nice 2500 4x4 QC SB in bright silver.



Pics? Might be someone here that is interested in the truck.


----------



## bytehoven

Thanks for the idea.

I have the truck advertised for $26,900, $1000 less than I paid, $10k off the sticker price and $6k below dealer invoice.

The truck has 450 easy break in miles.

I have this shot from the back. I will take some more pics if anyone is interested.

I'm located in Wilmington, DE


----------



## rb_in_va

bytehoven said:


> Thanks for the idea.



No problem. We'll discuss my fee later.:jester:


----------



## Treeman587

*Heres mine*

The day after I bought it.
Sincce then I have added in dash DVD, Kodiak Sidewinder steps, And soon I need tires so some 35 Toyos are on the way


----------



## bytehoven

Just testing my own thread and the email filter routing on my newly installed Thunderbird email package.



Feel free to echo a test.


----------



## OTG BOSTON

*he he he*

Check this out www.toyoland.com/trucks/tundra-2007.html

I especially like the line: "The Tundra is more Ram than the Ram"


----------



## rb_in_va

Toyota will be the #1 automaker in the US. It's only a matter of time.


----------



## bytehoven

The quote was, “The Toyota is more Ram than the Ram is.”

So Toyota builds almost a 3/4 ton truck (basically a 5/8 ton truck :hmm3grin2orange: ) and are comparing it to other 1/2" trucks? Clever.

The Toyota might take a bite out of Dodge 1500 sales, but 2500/3500 buyers are less likely to be fooled. Especially if you consider how many 3/4 & 1 ton truck buyers chose the diesel power plant.

I have almost 1k miles on my Ram '06 2500, and I'm lovin' it. The money I saved buying the heavily discounted '06 left over, will pay for a bunch of useful upgrades.


----------



## rb_in_va

bytehoven said:


> The Toyota might take a bite out of Dodge 1500 sales, but 2500/3500 buyers are less likely to be fooled. Especially if you consider how many 3/4 & 1 ton truck buyers chose the diesel power plant.



Short-sightedness like this is why the big 3 are in the situation they are in. Toyota has plans for heavier trucks too. And if their 1/2 ton entry into the full-size truck market Ford, GM, and Dodge better look out. And don't count Nissan out either. Both Toyota and Nissan have been making trucks of all sizes for decades, and diesels are coming. It's just that the US only gets the gas versions. Personally I won't be buying any new truck foreign or domestic. Too much $$$ for any of them (unless I win the lottery of course).


----------



## OTG BOSTON

*oh puh-leese*



bytehoven said:


> The quote was, “The Toyota is more Ram than the Ram is.”
> 
> .



Sorry, I was going from memory. Whats that smell? Sour grapes?


----------



## bytehoven

My friend... how it is short sighted?

There have been 1/2, 3/4 & 1 ton designations forever. These designations help people buy just as much truck as they need to get the job done, right?

If Toyota basically builds a truck with specs closer to a 3/4 ton truck, yet markets it against 1/2 ton trucks, aren't they being dishonest?

Perhaps it would be better to toss out the 1500, 2500 & 3500 designations all together, and shop based on the ride quality or style of the leather seats? 

I agree the cost of trucks has gotten crazy. Yet, we might never have had a family worthy Quad Cab heavy duty truck, capable of hauling loads during the week, and the family on the weekend.

Every once in awhile, I get to drive a friends old Ford 150, which only cost $8k new. Although it still gets the job done, you would never mistake it for a contemporary truck, in the comfort department.


----------



## rb_in_va

bytehoven said:


> If Toyota basically builds a truck with specs closer to a 3/4 ton truck, yet markets it against 1/2 ton trucks, aren't they being dishonest?



Toyota's not playing fair? For years people complained that import trucks were too light to handle the work that the domestics could do. And now evidently they get to complain the trucks are too heavy? Something about having cake and eating it too comes to mind right now.

And you're right about the comfort factor. The guy I bought my F-150 from got a 2006 Dodge, and we rode to DMV in his truck. That thing was very nice, and lots of power. Big payment too.


----------



## bytehoven

OTG BOSTON said:


> Sorry, I was going from memory. Whats that smell? Sour grapes?



Me? Sour grapes? Nah. 

My wife drives a '06 Toyota Sienna and we both love it. Our only other choice might have been the Honda, but the dealer didn't have have them in stock, so we couldn't test drive one.

I also didn't mean to be critical of your abbreviated quote. I just thought the actually quote was a bit humorous. It made me wonder if it was really one of the Ford/Dodge transplants. 

RB: I agree with your comment regarding imports being light duty. IMHO, the new Titan and Tundra are making great improvements. I welcome their heavy duty upgrades, as it definitely pushes the other truck makers to reinvent their trucks. I'm just saying, on a technical basis, Toyota is comparing apples & oranges. If Toyota is building a more competitive 1/2 ton alternative, we should be aware the advantage comes because they are building almost a 3/4 ton truck. On that basis, their comparison might better serve the buyer, by also including tech specs from other domestic 3/4 ton trucks.

Toyota is definitely doing alot of things right. I love the bigger disc brakes, the engine & tranny are very smooth. I just feel they are further obfuscating, an already very technically complex truck market.


----------



## rb_in_va

bytehoven said:


> RB: I agree with your comment regarding imports being light duty. IMHO, the new Titan and Tundra are making great improvements. I welcome their heavy duty upgrades, as it definitely pushes the other truck makers to reinvent their trucks. I'm just saying, on a technical basis, Toyota is comparing apples & oranges. If Toyota is building a more competitive 1/2 ton alternative, we should be aware the advantage comes because they are building almost a 3/4 ton truck. On that basis, their comparison might better serve the buyer, by also including tech specs from other domestic 3/4 ton trucks.



As I recall the Titan was close to 3/4 ton specs as well. By the way, where can I see the established 1/2, 3/4, and 1 ton specs?


----------



## Treeman587

You need to example simple economics. I know they are built in the US, but the profits still go to Japan. Keep buying foreign crap and we will be standing in line for toilet paper.


----------



## bytehoven

rb_in_va said:


> As I recall the Titan was close to 3/4 ton specs as well. By the way, where can I see the established 1/2, 3/4, and 1 ton specs?



Here is Dodge .pdf file on the 1500, 2500 & 3500 specifications.

https://www.fleet.daimlerchrysler.ca/en/specs/Ram.pdf


----------



## rb_in_va

Treeman587 said:


> Keep buying foreign crap and we will be standing in line for toilet paper.



If it was crap no one buy it. Take your rhetoric to Detroit and get the big three to build better cars. I think they are working on it, but it will take time to change the current perception.


----------



## spacemule

bytehoven said:


> M
> If Toyota basically builds a truck with specs closer to a 3/4 ton truck, yet markets it against 1/2 ton trucks, aren't they being dishonest?


How is this being dishonest when all specifications are clearly marked? Are they lying about specifications? Tell me this, is it dishonest for a man with a big wang to compare his work with men having smaller wangs?


----------



## rb_in_va

spacemule said:


> How is this being dishonest when all specifications are clearly marked? Are they lying about specifications? Tell me this, is it dishonest for a man with a big wang to compare his work with men having smaller wangs?



   

He said wang.


----------



## LarryTheCableGuy

Treeman587 said:


> You need to example simple economics. I know they are built in the US, but the profits still go to Japan. Keep buying foreign crap and we will be standing in line for toilet paper.



No more so than Chrysler's profits are going to Germany, right?

Where are Ford's profits going? Oh wait, they just lost a few more billions.

Toyota's Profits? Being a publicly held company I would guess that some of the profits are distributed to shareholders and a big chunk of the profits are being reinvested in new plants in the USA. That new plant in San Antonio was built with over a billion dollars in CASH and will employ AMERICANS.

Profits going to Japan? No, they are being reinvested here and creating new jobs. That's as good as it gets.

.


----------



## rb_in_va

How many plants do GM and Ford have in other countries? And how many plants in the US are closing their doors?

Ford owns Mazda, Volvo, Jaguar, and Land Rover.
GM owns Saab, Opel, Vauxhall, and has a stake in Suzuki, Daewoo, and Isuzu.

The largest shareholder in DaimlerChrysler today is the State of Kuwait

GM manufactures its cars and trucks in 33 countries.

Toyota manufactures cars in 10 countries, a total of 14 plants with 4 in the US.

A lot of parts for "American" cars are manufactured in Japan.

Tell me, just what is an American car these days?


----------



## Treeman587

rb_in_va said:


> If it was crap no one buy it. Take your rhetoric to Detroit and get the big three to build better cars. I think they are working on it, but it will take time to change the current perception.




Thank You. Our typical american errogance has cost a share of the market to foreign manufacturers. They are working on it. It will take time however. 

My "crap" comment concerns all things not just cars. BUY AMERICAN


----------



## rb_in_va

Does it count if you don't buy it at the dealer? I'd like to buy from private owners the rest of my life if possible.


----------



## joatmon

*Honest!*

OK, hold on thereToyota!

From the April, 07 issue of Motor Trend:

07 Silverado, 4X4, payload capacity = 1635 lbs.
07 Tundra, 4X4, payload capacity = 1155 lbs.

Wow. 1155 lbs. payload on a truck that weighs 5845 lbs. and claims a 10,300 lb. towing capcity. OK! With a 26.4 gallon tank, that's 210 lbs. in the gas tank. Let's say I put my 230 lbs. in the seat. 500 lb. tongue weight sounds reasonable for a 10,000 trailer. So, let's see, 210 + 230 + 500 = 940 lbs. OK, 1155 - 940 = 215 lbs. left. I hope mamma's light and doesn't pack heavy.

Heavy Duty. What a joke.


----------



## rb_in_va

joatmon said:


> OK, hold on thereToyota!
> 
> From the April, 07 issue of Motor Trend:
> 
> 07 Silverado, 4X4, payload capacity = 1635 lbs.
> 07 Tundra, 4X4, payload capacity = 1155 lbs.
> 
> Wow. 1155 lbs. payload on a truck that weighs 5845 lbs. and claims a 10,300 lb. towing capcity. OK! With a 26.4 gallon tank, that's 210 lbs. in the gas tank. Let's say I put my 230 lbs. in the seat. 500 lb. tongue weight sounds reasonable for a 10,000 trailer. So, let's see, 210 + 230 + 500 = 940 lbs. OK, 1155 - 940 = 215 lbs. left. I hope mamma's light and doesn't pack heavy.
> 
> Heavy Duty. What a joke.



Go ahead and stick your head back in the sand. The imports will never compete with the big three trucks, right?

In any case I found this at the Motor Trend site for the 2007 Tundra.

"Weights: gross vehicle weight rating (lbs) 7,200, curb weight (lbs) 5,200, gross trailer weight braked (lbs) 10,500 and max payload (lbs) 2,000"

And here's the link mon!

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/2007/toyota/tundra/specifications/


----------



## LarryTheCableGuy

*Don't let the facts get in your way...*



joatmon said:


> OK, hold on thereToyota!
> 
> From the April, 07 issue of Motor Trend:
> 
> 07 Silverado, 4X4, payload capacity = 1635 lbs.
> 07 Tundra, 4X4, payload capacity = 1155 lbs.
> 
> Wow. 1155 lbs. payload on a truck that weighs 5845 lbs. and claims a 10,300 lb. towing capcity. OK! With a 26.4 gallon tank, that's 210 lbs. in the gas tank. Let's say I put my 230 lbs. in the seat. 500 lb. tongue weight sounds reasonable for a 10,000 trailer. So, let's see, 210 + 230 + 500 = 940 lbs. OK, 1155 - 940 = 215 lbs. left. I hope mamma's light and doesn't pack heavy.
> 
> Heavy Duty. What a joke.



Now, now, now....Please don't let the facts get in the way of your arguement!

*Looks like the 4WD 5.7L has a payload of 2,000 pounds.* That's a ton where I come from.

From Toyota:
First column is 2WD, second column is 4WD






Motor Trend, what a joke...


----------



## joatmon

rb_in_va said:


> Go ahead and stick your head back in the sand. The imports will never compete with the big three trucks, right?
> 
> In any case I found this at the Motor Trend site for the 2007 Tundra.
> 
> "Weights: gross vehicle weight rating (lbs) 7,200, curb weight (lbs) 5,200, gross trailer weight braked (lbs) 10,500 and max payload (lbs) 2,000"
> 
> And here's the link mon!
> 
> http://www.motortrend.com/cars/2007/toyota/tundra/specifications/



The print article (I have it at my side) shows the curb wgt. as 5845 and the payload as 1155. Your link shows a different story. Maybe options pushed the curb wgt. up. Generally, the gross weight stays the same and options push te resulting payload wgt. down.

Now, I'm sorry if what I posted is incorrect. Honest mistake, but I'm sorry. Looks like I very well could be wrong.

Oh, I'm not here to say Toyota can't compete. No way. Also, payload isn't on many peoples radar screen. I was trying to point out that looking macho isn't enough.

But, I say again. I'm sorry.


----------



## joatmon

LarryTheCableGuy said:


> Now, now, now....Please don't let the facts get in the way of your arguement!
> 
> *Looks like the 4WD 5.7L has a payload of 2,000 pounds.* That's a ton where I come from.
> 
> From Toyota:
> First column is 2WD, second column is 4WD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Motor Trend, what a joke...



Well, again, I'm sorry. I did use facts as I knew them to be. I believe these stats from the mags are usually what the mfg. submits to them and are proffed. But, looks like I was wrong. Sorry.


----------



## rb_in_va

joatmon said:


> The print article (I have it at my side) shows the curb wgt. as 5845 and the payload as 1155. You link shows a different story. Maybe options pushed the curb wgt. up. Generally, the gross weight stays the same and options push te resulting payload wgt. down.
> 
> Now, I'm sorry if what I posted is incorrect. Honest mistake, but I'm sorry. Looks like I very well could be wrong.
> 
> Oh, I not here to say Toyota can't compete. No way. Also, payload isn't on many peoples radar screen. I was trying to point out that looking macho isn't enough.
> 
> But, I say again. I'm sorry.



No prob joatmon. Didn't mean to unload both barrels at once.


----------



## joatmon

rb_in_va said:


> No prob joatmon. Didn't mean to unload both barrels at once.



Thanks OK. Both barrels at once means its OK to advance whilst you're reloading.


----------



## joatmon

*From Toyota's Site*

http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/2007/tundra/specs_dcab.html

Then, click the capacities tab.


----------



## rb_in_va

joatmon said:


> http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/2007/tundra/specs_dcab.html
> 
> Then, click the capacities tab.



Even so, it's competitive with the others.


----------



## joatmon

rb_in_va said:


> Even so, it's competitive with the others.



Yep, you've convinced me that I'm wrong. So, go ahead and  

OK, LTCG, I may agree with you as well, so go ahead and 

Oh, and a sincere thanks to both for keeping me straight.


----------



## rb_in_va

joatmon said:


> Yep, you've convinced me that I'm wrong. So, go ahead and
> 
> OK, LTCG, I may agree with you as well, so go ahead and
> 
> Oh, and a sincere thanks to both for keeping me straight.



No prob. What are friends for?


----------



## LarryTheCableGuy

I ain't gonna  , no way. You set a really good example there.

Welcome aboard.


----------



## bytehoven

spacemule said:


> Tell me this, is it dishonest for a man with a big wang to compare his work with men having smaller wangs?



    

Excellent!


----------



## Treeman587

rb_in_va said:


> Does it count if you don't buy it at the dealer? I'd like to buy from private owners the rest of my life if possible.


Yes, I beleive it does. Because if a private party seller cant sell it used the resale value will go down and less people will buy them new.


----------



## OTG BOSTON

*?????*



Treeman587 said:


> Thank You. Our typical american errogance has cost a share of the market to foreign manufacturers. They are working on it. It will take time however.
> 
> My "crap" comment concerns all things not just cars. BUY AMERICAN



Even chainsaws???

I bumped this thread because I have had this arguement with one of my cousins forever. He sent me the link, he also traded in his Chevy SUV a few months ago and got a 4Runner!:biggrinbounce2:


----------



## Treeman587

Well unfortunately, not everything is feasible. But I do beleive Stihl is okay. The US headquarters for stihl is located about 20 min from me. And some of the saws I use are made there. Obviously not the 460,650,200t though. So that one hits kind of close to home.

We were working in a backyard next to a golf course one day in VA Beach. When a golfball struck one of my guys. Off the driver of a German stihl exec. Once they came up on the carts they were all kinds of excited to see all the orange/white layin out there


----------



## rb_in_va

Treeman587 said:


> Well unfortunately, not everything is feasible.



You don't think it's feasible for Americans to produce a quality chainsaw?


----------



## Eccentric

rb_in_va said:


> You don't think it's feasible for Americans to produce a quality chainsaw?



Look at the _old_ Homelite, Mac, and Poulan saws (amoung others). It was done _once_. I'm not holding _my_ breath however...


----------



## rb_in_va

Eccentric said:


> Look at the _old_ Homelite, Mac, and Poulan saws (amoung others). It was done _once_. I'm not holding _my_ breath however...



I agree, the old American saws were good. What is stopping someone from making a good American saw again?


----------



## Eccentric

rb_in_va said:


> I agree, the old American saws were good. What is stopping someone from making a good American saw again?



The short answer is labor costs. I don't want to get into an 'outsourcing' discussion however!  

The only way to build the 'old designs' from a cost effective standpoint (for a manufacturer) would be to have them made overseas. Check out the Chinese copies of the old Browning designed Winchester '97 pump shotguns as an example. That's an extremely machining-intensive design, as were many of the old saws. Of course, the build quality isn't there with the Chinese copies...

As far as a quality 'modern' design built in America...Stihl _does_ manufacture quality saws in American plants, so it must be possible. It'd be nice if an American company would design and manufacture a quality, modern chainsaw in the good old USA. They'd have to compete with a mighty strong, established set of manufacturers (Stihl, Jonsered, Dolmar, Husky, etc) in a field where brand loyalty is SRONG. The only area where they could break into the market would be at the 'box store' homeowner level, as the customers aren't so wed to a brand (or quality unfortunately). A fledgeling US manufacturer would probably have to start there (but would then sully their rep with the Pros by building another price-point crap saw). A catch-22 I'd say.


I'm just blowing thoughts out my muffler however... :jester:


----------



## DonnyO

Treeman587 said:


> Well unfortunately, not everything is feasible. But I do beleive Stihl is okay. The US headquarters for stihl is located about 20 min from me. And some of the saws I use are made there. Obviously not the 460,650,200t though. So that one hits kind of close to home.
> 
> We were working in a backyard next to a golf course one day in VA Beach. When a golfball struck one of my guys. Off the driver of a German stihl exec. Once they came up on the carts they were all kinds of excited to see all the orange/white layin out there



WOW!:taped: :hmm3grin2orange:

looks like we'll all be standing in line for toilet paper...........


----------



## Treeman587

rb_in_va said:


> You don't think it's feasible for Americans to produce a quality chainsaw?



It is, and there are some. I did say the headquarters was near me right? 

I had a mac 10-10. that was a great saw, but when the wristpin slid out the side of the piston and it grenaded I couldn't find the parts to fix it. MacCulloch is not MacCulloch anymore.


----------



## Treeman587

DonnyO said:


> WOW!:taped: :hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> looks like we'll all be standing in line for toilet paper...........




Well you can call me out for owning German saws, But like I said it is not always feasible. You should buy american whenever possible. Thats why I dont deal with any "box" stores. I always try to find a local merchant first, even it does cost me a few extra bucks. 

If we continue to give our money away to foreign countries without them spending as much here eventually we will be broke. That is the same as if you make $1000 a week but you continuously spend $1500, you arent going to last long.

My point is, rather than running to Home Depot or Wal-Mart for everything, try to keep the money local if you want to live in a good economy. 

How do you think we feel when a Hurricane hits us and all these jokers come rolling in from OK,TX,NY,PA,OH and everywhere else. They take that money home with them. It does not get recirculated through our local economy. Well that works on a global scale as well.


----------



## rb_in_va

Treeman587 said:


> It is, and there are some. I did say the headquarters was near me right?



I know where the headquarters is. It's near me too.:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## OTG BOSTON

*?????????????????*



Treeman587 said:


> Well you can call me out for owning German saws, But like I said it is not always feasible. You should buy american whenever possible. Thats why I dont deal with any "box" stores. I always try to find a local merchant first, even it does cost me a few extra bucks.
> 
> If we continue to give our money away to foreign countries without them spending as much here eventually we will be broke. That is the same as if you make $1000 a week but you continuously spend $1500, you arent going to last long.
> 
> My point is, rather than running to Home Depot or Wal-Mart for everything, try to keep the money local if you want to live in a good economy.
> 
> How do you think we feel when a Hurricane hits us and all these jokers come rolling in from OK,TX,NY,PA,OH and everywhere else. They take that money home with them. It does not get recirculated through our local economy. Well that works on a global scale as well.




I'm still confused. My Toyota truck was made here also.............


----------



## rb_in_va

OTG BOSTON said:


> I'm still confused. My Toyota truck was made here also.............



Yeah, it seems a bit of a contradiction doesn't it?


----------



## romeo

Foreign Trucks.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAA:deadhorse: 

You will never see my 6'5" 225lb frame inside one of those funny little trucks designed for umpaloompas. I have had a bunch of midgets try to argue this with me before. Even these "alleged" full size foreign trucks are pretty dwarfed when they are parked next to my F350. What would you expect from a country where 5 footers are giants. Horsepower, $2000 bucks and a PAW catalog will take care of that. Steel is still the primary building material on my Fords and you can even lean on the fender with out crushing it.

And as far as fuel consumption, skru it, GOD BLESS AMERICA.


----------



## LarryTheCableGuy

romeo said:


> You will never see my 6'5" 225lb frame inside one of those funny little trucks designed for umpaloompas.



Ranger, S-10 or Dakota?


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## rb_in_va

Funny, it seemed that my Nissan Frontier had more leg room than my F-150.


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## romeo

LarryTheCableGuy said:


> Ranger, S-10 or Dakota?



Those aren't trucks, those are trunkless cars.


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## romeo

I guess there is one foreign truck I would buy, that 3500 Chevy that they put the Isuzu diesel in.


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## romeo

rb_in_va said:


> Funny, it seemed that my Nissan Frontier had more leg room than my F-150.



Leg room - yes, head room - NO.


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## DonnyO

*read the whole thread*



romeo said:


> I guess there is one foreign truck I would buy, that 3500 Chevy that they put the Isuzu diesel in.




before you comment at least read the whole thread.:monkey:


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## romeo

DonnyO said:


> before you comment at least read the whole thread.:monkey:



OK, I read the whole thread, now what was I looking for?

I am just airing my grievances. I have been looking for a new truck. I was told to check out the Tundra QC. Too dang small. I have to be able to work with it and haul wife/4 kids/2dogs and a jet boat to the lake. I was very disappointed in the cab room.

For one, I dont want a drink holder or an arm rest or a box to fill with crap, I want a real bench seat that could fit 3 adults. Toyota and Nissan seem to have a problem with bench seats.

Another reason, I live at over 9200 ft above sea level, I am 1 mile higher than the town I get supplies from. I don't care what kind of "ratings" are put out for city folks so they can make a proper decision. Just every day driving here will tell you if you bought a lemon or not. My F-350 is getting close to 1/4 mill miles on it and still running strong. The small Toyotas do alright here the big ones are junk, they break expensively and frequently.

Power? Dont even go there. Like I said, everything here is up hill and HP ratings wash out real fast.

Im not "anti-jap" by any means. They make great bikes and stereos. They just make pathetic trucks. By the time it gets "close" to what you want its to expensive and doesn't fit the bill anyway.


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## rb_in_va

romeo said:


> I am just airing my grievances. I have been looking for a new truck. I was told to check out the Tundra QC. Too dang small. I have to be able to work with it and haul wife/4 kids/2dogs and a jet boat to the lake. I was very disappointed in the cab room.



How did you fit in the truck personally? Before you said you weren't squeezing your 6' 5", 225 lb frame into a foreign truck. Just like when picking out a saw, it's hard to recommend something if folks don't know what you will be using it for. I like the fact that my F-150 has an armrest with cupholders that can swivel up if needed for more passenger space. And Toyota does want a ton of $$$ for their trucks, but then again all new trucks are expensive to me.


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## romeo

rb_in_va said:


> How did you fit in the truck personally? Before you said you weren't squeezing your 6' 5", 225 lb frame into a foreign truck. Just like when picking out a saw, it's hard to recommend something if folks don't know what you will be using it for. I like the fact that my F-150 has an armrest with cupholders that can swivel up if needed for more passenger space. And Toyota does want a ton of $$$ for their trucks, but then again all new trucks are expensive to me.



I fit like a glove on a foot.


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## rb_in_va

romeo said:


> I fit like a glove on a foot.



 

My son like to put his mittens on his feet. He says "watch this trick!"

Makes me laugh every time.


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## romeo

I really wasn't trying to sound bitter or be an @hole. I was just frustrated after a weekend of truck hunting.


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## rb_in_va

romeo said:


> I really wasn't trying to sound bitter or be an @hole.



Yeah, that would be a first here at Arboristsite!  

I can understand the frustrations of truck shopping, and my needs are way simpler than yours. It would seem that very few trucks fit the bill for what you need. Is your F-350 a PSD? I have driven one of those in the mountains and it ran great!


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## romeo

rb_in_va said:


> Yeah, that would be a first here at Arboristsite!
> 
> I can understand the frustrations of truck shopping, and my needs are way simpler than yours. It would seem that very few trucks fit the bill for what you need. Is your F-350 a PSD? I have driven one of those in the mountains and it ran great!



Nope, its still gas. Its a 93 F350 4WD QC with a 351W. It was actually a dog at first, B303 roller cam, H.O. heads, and lost all of the emissions gear but kept the injection. Tons of power and much better fuel mileage now. What I really like is the HD solid axles and manual hubs. They are bullet proof, I dont think any of the trucks I looked at carry the option anymore. I know that they offer a kit to run solid axles on the Super Duty's but I wouldn't get that far into a truck.
I'm not rich by any means but when I need a truck I need:
1. Long wide bed or a flat bed
2. 4WD 1 ton
3. An interior you can wash with a garden hose.
3. 4 doors and 2 bench seats, seat six comfortably
4. Power to pull, trailer brakes
5. Low mileage 3 year old, I'll let someone else take the hit on the "new" price.
6. Fleet truck, I don't like or need all of the goody's, just something else to go wrong IMO.


All of the manufactures have turned the pickup into a giant sports/ luxury car, they left the folks that actually use and need trucks out of the equation. The only models I have been happy with were the 3+3 Chevy's in the mid 80's and the F350's from the early 90's. Brake systems and drive lines have gotten better but the trucks themselves have gotten weak and foofy. Ever since big trucks became a fad, I can't find any thing on the market that fits my needs. I will probably try to get a few more years out of this truck any how, weather I find a new one or not.

My first trucks were big block/ 4 speeds from the late 60's and early 70's. Big power and tough bodies, plentiful and cheap. Why did they go and mess up a good thing.


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## rb_in_va

romeo said:


> Its a 93 F350 4WD QC with a 351W.



Pics? I love that truck body style! Mine is a 95 F-150. Just before I got it the seller had manual hubs put on it. Why not just get an older crewcab truck? Even if you had to rebuild the motor and tranny you'd be $1000s ahead on buying a 3 year old truck.

Something like this:

http://richmond.craigslist.org/car/271399657.html

What is wrong with your 93?


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## rb_in_va

romeo said:


> My first trucks were big block/ 4 speeds from the late 60's and early 70's. Big power and tough bodies, plentiful and cheap. Why did they go and mess up a good thing.



Cause some yuppies like to drive trucks.


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