# Thoughts on communication systems



## John Willeford (Nov 14, 2015)

we are adding a new machine to our arsenal . A 50' crane. Anyhow, we are wanting/needing a good communication system. Generally we run a 3/4 man crew. I want total 3/4 way comm. I like the thought of Bluetooth radio and phone integration ( I'm sure there is a thread topic of its own). I would like to hear from experience. Please mention Brand and Model when boasting or bashing your goods please.


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## Cottonoak (Nov 14, 2015)

We use the sena com system from Treestuff. You can get them on Amazon a lot cheaper. They work well and it's nice to have tunes while you work.


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## luckydad (Nov 14, 2015)

Cottonoak said:


> We use the sena com system from Treestuff. You can get them on Amazon a lot cheaper. They work well and it's nice to have tunes while you work.


Yep they work fine.


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## Coen (Nov 14, 2015)

Yep. They are fine


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## pdqdl (Nov 14, 2015)

How good is the noise cancellation and range on the Treestuff coms? I never believe advertised range, and no one seems to say much about the noise cancellation.

I have a Peltor bluetooth earmuff for use with my phone, and it has phenomenal noise cancellation. I can run a chainsaw and have a casual telephone conversation at the same time. It would link to a bluetooth radio interface device connected with almost any standard radio, but that is a lot of hardware to tote around. The Peltor LiteCom radios use business radio frequencies, and have a pretty decent range, but they are also somewhat pricey. I'm pretty sure they have the same excellent noise cancelling features, however.


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## squad143 (Nov 14, 2015)

Just purchase the Sena SMH 10-11 and install them yourself. You thank me later 

I have had four sets of the Peltor Pro Comm lites and used them form quite a number of years. My boom mics started acting up and when I found out that replacements were around $100, decided to buy some Senas.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...d_t=201&pf_rd_p=1944687562&pf_rd_i=B00CEHC32A


Pro about the headsets. VOX is awesome, although it requires a quick blow into the mic before you start talking or you miss the first few words.
Negatives: Very expensive. Around $500 a headset. Not Bluetooth (can't connect to my phone). Batteries are AA, not rechargeable. Some find them heavy, heavier than ear muffs. Not too crazy about water (rain or sweat) and can act up or go dead. They work off FRS, so you can be on the same channel as the neighbours kid. (Although there are many channels available.

I purchased four sets of Sena SMH 10-11.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias=gps&field-keywords=Sena+smh+10-11


Pros: a lot less than the Peltors.(about $160) Bluetooth (can answer my phone, listen to music). Light to wear, don't even notice them on the helmet. Easy to work buttons. Built in rechargeable batteries.
Cons: Can only use up to four headsets at a time. Bit of work setting them up (not installation, but pairing them and keeping them paired). The Velcro that holds the remote mic on is junk (replace it with good double sided sticky tape, or zip tie it to helmet liner). Speaker wires hang out the outside (however they don't seem to get caught on anything). Group intercom, everybody is on an open channel (there is a bit of noise sometimes with chainsaws/chippers running (but it's easy to turn down the volume).
I haven't played with many options on the Senas (vox and other features). Just got them going on group channel and started using them.

The range is better with the Peltor system (over 800' in the woods) as opposed to the Sena's which seem to start to crackle once you get past a few hundred feet.
I've heard of some reviews (motorcycle) where there have been some out of the box issues, but Sena does rectify the issues immediately.

Hope this helps.


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## treebilly (Nov 15, 2015)

We got the sena units a few months ago and love them. We're running four comms every day without to much trouble. We also have had to factory reset them every couple of weeks. All of the sudden helmets 1&2 will be linked and 3&4 are out but still linked with each other. The noise cancellation is so so. Some days it's great. Other days I'm turning mine down.


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## John Willeford (Nov 16, 2015)

Thanks for the input. I don't car the cost so much just need better communication on site. sure could have used it today!


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## anlrolfe (Nov 16, 2015)

Old school:

https://www.osha.gov/dte/grant_materials/fy10/sh-21009-10/Hand_Signals_Cranes.pdf

And its worth saying that a rigger course may be prudent.


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## John Willeford (Nov 16, 2015)

anlrolfe said:


> Old school:
> 
> https://www.osha.gov/dte/grant_materials/fy10/sh-21009-10/Hand_Signals_Cranes.pdf
> 
> And its worth saying that a rigger course may be prudent.



I appreciate that, and actually you reminded me that I need those laminated and posted on the truck somewhere. The truck is being built now. I'm no nubee, in tree service for 26 years, ISA certified in rigging and climbing. Want my men to have the same. I like the thought of being Able to take advantage of teachable moments and added safety. Should have made the comma decision sooner.


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## pdqdl (Nov 17, 2015)

squad143 said:


> Just purchase the Sena SMH 10-11 and install them yourself. You thank me later
> 
> I have had four sets of the Peltor Pro Comm lites and used them form quite a number of years. My boom mics started acting up and when I found out that replacements were around $100, decided to buy some Senas.
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...d_t=201&pf_rd_p=1944687562&pf_rd_i=B00CEHC32A
> ...



Yep. The Peltor noise canceling is truly awsome, but the microphones are too expensive. Kinda fragile, too; mine has been glued back on to my headset several times, and you cannot buy just the mounting hardware. I have never had a VOX set that didn't drop the first few words. I'm sure the bluetooth duplex is much more "conversational" for daily use. I like the AA batteries. If you wanted rechargeable, just put some in.

Q1: how well do the Sena speakers fit into standard ear muffs, and what brand hard hat are you using? I don't want to put my guys in the expensive (and less protective) arborist hard hats that the Roptek comm units seem to be adapted to. I prefer the Husqvarna hard hat, because of the rain gutter and I like the muffs better than other brands. If I thought I could just mount up the Sena units, I would probably jump.

Q2: how good is the noise cancellation and wind noise problems on the Sena units?

The Sena 20 allows grouping up to 8 at a time, BTW. If you need bigger groups, you might look into that.


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## treebilly (Nov 17, 2015)

I'll check the sena 20 out. 
They have two screws that tighten a clamp to hold it on. We took apart the muffs and put a small nick in the casing with a cut off wheel on the angle grinder for the wire to run in. Used a piece of foam to get a better fit for the sena unit itself. Once we figured it out, it was less ten minutes each


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## pdqdl (Nov 17, 2015)

So...you mounted your units onto a standard hard hat? 

I was concerned about the length of the microphone & ear speakers. These things were made for full face motorcycle helmets, & I can envision problems with a regular hard hat.


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## treebilly (Nov 17, 2015)

I'll take a pic of one tomorrow. These are Stihl hard hats. We did have to use the earmuffs that came on them and not the ones that Treestuff sent. Just didn't fit. There is plenty of wire. I coiled it up into the muff. I can't remember how long the mic wire is though.


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## John Willeford (Nov 17, 2015)

We bought this. Let you know how it goes.


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## Magnum783 (Nov 18, 2015)

Subscribing to this one I am quite intrigued. I think a guy could make these work easy. Just not sure how the noise canceling would work


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## treebilly (Nov 18, 2015)

The piece of foam is just weather stripping from Home Depot.


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## Magnum783 (Nov 18, 2015)

So you attached the mic with just electrical tape? I like the ear muff work that looks awesome. Did the back part just come like that?


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## treebilly (Nov 18, 2015)

No the electric tape is holding the wires because the guy that wears it mess with the Velcro piece that used to hold it. The last pic is the factory set up clamping system. The first pic you can see the weather stripping we put in. The brim on the back of the hard hat sticks out and we didn't like the fit so we added that to make it hold better. I have a petzel and still added the weather stripping. Seems to hold tighter. They come with Velcro sticky pads for the mics and speakers. The mic needs a bit of help. I used a small zip tie to secure mine.


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## Magnum783 (Nov 18, 2015)

Is this the same or just something similar to the one treestuff sells? Can you take pictures of it on your petzel I can see it looks like a vertex of sort. Did it take special mounting on that one. Do they come with wind shields for the mics.


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## treebilly (Nov 19, 2015)

No special mounting for the vertex vent. They don't come with a wind guard. These are from Treestuff.


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## Magnum783 (Nov 19, 2015)

I like it! Do they sync and work well with the tree stuff versions? Have you found that the small wires catch on things or so they stay out of the way?


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## treebilly (Nov 19, 2015)

Honestly the wires don't seem to snag very often. They are all Treestuffs sena systems. Smh 10's I believe. Any sena 10 should link with another sena 10. I don't know about the 20's though.


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## Magnum783 (Nov 20, 2015)

I may have to try ordering a set and giving it a go. Does anyone have a picture of
What the treestuff purchased ones look like?


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## squad143 (Nov 21, 2015)

treebilly said:


> They don't come with a wind guard.


The foam around the mic is the wind guard.



Magnum783 said:


> I may have to try ordering a set and giving it a go. Does anyone have a picture of
> What the treestuff purchased ones look like?


The ones Treestuff sell are Sena's.
Here's some pics from their website:


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## squad143 (Nov 21, 2015)

pdqdl said:


> Q1: how well do the Sena speakers fit into standard ear muffs, and what brand hard hat are you using? I don't want to put my guys in the expensive (and less protective) arborist hard hats that the Roptek comm units seem to be adapted to. I prefer the Husqvarna hard hat, because of the rain gutter and I like the muffs better than other brands. If I thought I could just mount up the Sena units, I would probably jump.
> 
> Q2: how good is the noise cancellation and wind noise problems on the Sena units?
> 
> The Sena 20 allows grouping up to 8 at a time, BTW. If you need bigger groups, you might look into that.



I have them on a Kask, a Petzl vent and two on the Sthil forestry hard hats. They all have Petlor 101 hearing protection muffs on them. Very easy to install the speakers in them as has been described earlier by Treebilly.
The mic picks up everything (not bothersome). I have yet to pick up wind noise.


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## John Willeford (Dec 3, 2015)

Magnum783 said:


> Is this the same or just something similar to the one treestuff sells? Can you take pictures of it on your petzel I can see it looks like a vertex of sort. Did it take special mounting on that one. Do they come with wind shields for the mics.


what "Treebilly" has is the same as what treestuff sells. Take advantage of cyber savings weak if your in the market for a Com. system. We got 2 pair "4" systems for 4 helmets for $259 a pair at Amazon. We are going to get new helmets to install them into.


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## Griff93 (Dec 4, 2015)

The sena 10 will pair with the sena 20. I have done this riding motorcycles with friends that have the 20. I have the 10s. They're great to use. No need to buy the treestuff version. They are just a sena SMH10-11.


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## Magnum783 (Dec 19, 2015)

Sorry for the super long delay on reply guys. I just lost track of the thread. I like idea totally I just have to figure something out for the crane operator.


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## Griff93 (Dec 20, 2015)

Magnum783 said:


> Sorry for the super long delay on reply guys. I just lost track of the thread. I like idea totally I just have to figure something out for the crane operator.


They make a stand alone com that will pair to the Sena stuff for crane operators. I know tree stuff has it.


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## Magnum783 (Dec 20, 2015)

I have seen the one treestuff has just not thrilled by their price. I said thrilled not scared or opposed. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## John Willeford (Dec 20, 2015)

Griff93 said:


> They make a stand alone com that will pair to the Sena stuff for crane operators. I know tree stuff has it.


According to the Sena instructions you can even link to a Bluetooth hands free earpiece for your phone. The Sena is configured on Bluetooth 3.0


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## Magnum783 (Dec 20, 2015)

Well now that might be an option. I am just so on the fence about all this coms stuff seems. The hand held Walkies are so cheap and these so expensive. Guess I may need to just bite the bullet and give them a try.


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## John Willeford (Dec 20, 2015)

Magnum I am chomping at the bit about getting these in service. We had some unexpected expenses that has stopped the purchase of new helmets to install them in. I'm just the number 1 man and not the boss. He was upset at the purchase of these but sold him on the hands free and the earpiece link so he can sit in the truck where he is most of the time anyway. Lol. I hope when we get these up and running I don't lose my " tree voice". Be nice to get someone's attention without waiting or yelling so the whole neighborhood can hear. The price is less than a day's worth of revenue.


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## Magnum783 (Dec 20, 2015)

I am just a contract climber so little different situation but just we needed. I never have the same ground guy. So I am always having to explain everything with as you say it my tree voice.


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## Griff93 (Dec 20, 2015)

I think I paid $260 for a pair of the sena version. Make sure you get the smh10-11 as you need the detached mic. The stand alone setup can be found cheaper if you search around. Not having to use hand signal with the crane op is worth it alone.


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## Magnum783 (Dec 20, 2015)

I might just have to jump found the crane headset on Amazon for $164.


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## Magnum783 (Dec 28, 2015)

Well I have ordered the kits and will update how the install process goes. Here is hoping well.


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## treebilly (Dec 28, 2015)

Easy
Peasy 
Just watch you don't pinch the wires.


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## treesmith (Dec 31, 2015)

Just got a pair of midland g7xt radios with fbi style ear pieces to play with but then its getting used for bush bashing in a 4x4, fire reduction work in the bush, car convoys, fishing, travelling etc as well as tree work so we'll see


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## Magnum783 (Jan 2, 2016)

treebilly said:


> Easy
> Peasy
> Just watch you don't pinch the wires.


Ok so set arrived today what did you do with one ear that is shorter. Was that an issue when it came time to run the wires. How did you mitigate this. Also how did you stuck the speakers in the ear muffs. I apologize for picking so much or your ideas just trying to learn from your success.


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## treebilly (Jan 2, 2016)

Shorter one goes to the side the wires come out of the unit. You need to take the ear muffs apart. It's a bit tricky to pop them open till you figure it out, then it's easy. I put mine on the helmet and marked about 30 degrees back from top center. I used a cut off wheel on the grinder to slice the groove for the wire. There is a lip on the inside of the muff. The groove has to be about an eighth of an inch into that groove. Use a cutting disc not a grinding wheel. We stared for a while until we figured it out. 
I'll be refreshed on the whole thing Monday as we just received 12 more at work.


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## Magnum783 (Jan 2, 2016)

How about the speakers in the ears????


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## treebilly (Jan 2, 2016)

There is a sticky pad on the back of the speaker. Peel it off and stick it to the inside of the muffs. I think. There might be a Velcro sticky thing to put in first. I'll take a lot of pics Monday when I put one together.


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## Magnum783 (Jan 2, 2016)

Thank you so much. I know the sticky thing you speak of. Do you stick it to the foam or.... Another thought for your project and securing wires. They make a tape much like super thick electrical tape designed to apply over wires to hold them down by this may make a great product to secure wire to the helmet. Another question I had was what is the best way you have found to secure it.
Last question what model is the hard hat you have it mounted in? I like it!!!


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## treebilly (Jan 2, 2016)

Secure the speaker to the plastic part of the inside of the muff. I centered mine in there. The speaker wires are a bit long so I coiled them up into the muff before I put it back together. You could cool them and tape them to the inside of the helmet. There is a velcro clip piece to run the mic wire through. I wrapped the excess mic wire around the head band a time or two. I'll check on the helmet Monday as well. The 3- M muffs that came with the units did not fit these helmets so I used the ones that came with them. They are a type of forestry helmet our local stihl dealer carries. There is a stihl logo on them.


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## treebilly (Jan 4, 2016)

Just a couple pics to help you out


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## treebilly (Jan 4, 2016)

This just shows the foam weather stripping we used for a better fit. We took the one on the inside out of it for the final mount


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## Magnum783 (Jan 4, 2016)

Those are super helpful. Do you notice muffling of sound with the foam in front of the speaker? I will take picture of the as you call it super tape as well.


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## treebilly (Jan 4, 2016)

No muffled sound at all. They work great. Put it this way. With the speaker behind the foam, volume all the way up, you don't want to have a hang over. Them little speakers are loud


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## Magnum783 (Jan 4, 2016)

Ok thanks for wise words


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