# Wear your helmets, they really do work



## Dadatwins (Aug 20, 2012)

Don't post on here much anymore, very little time and usually to much political bantering but I had an incident that I figured I would share, especially to those anti-helmet, I will never get hurt yahoos that are out there. I am in the tree business a long time - 25+ years, growing up in it, and remember doing the work with baseball hats and handsaws back in the day. Grew up and was taught around a bunch of old timers that have the 'nothing can hurt me attitude' that most folks in this business have, and frankly probably need to do the work that we do. I have learned over the years and by educating myself that much of the 'old way' may have worked, but there is usually a better and safer way. This particular removal was a dead tree in a swampy wooded area behind a newly constructed home. Tree was in what is called here 'common property' but the dead crown was overhanging private property so the homeowners association wanted it felled into the woods to eliminate the hazard over private property. White oak tree, dead 20" dbh x 80' tall, pretty straight tree with full dead crown. Simple cut and leave in the woods, basically a one cut tree. I set a rope in the top of the tree from the ground, set up a rope come-along in the direction of fall and pre-tensioned the line. Had my helper in the woods way beyond the fall line for some additional pull. Made my notch at the base, tree started falling over as I wanted it to, I started backing away watching the fall. As I was backing away I felt the impact to my helmet. I do remember seeing the tree 1/3 of the way over before getting hit. I was looking up and around as it started falling over but I did not see the limb that came back and hit me, it either fell from the top or bounced back out the woods, but it caught me square on the helmet. Did not knock me out, but certainly rang my bell. The straps inside the standard forestry type hard hat upon compression cut my head, requiring 10 staples to close back up. Chipped a few teeth on the impact also. I will be looking for a better designed helmet for future work, this one worked and I probably would not be around had I not been wearing it. The impact to my head also caused a spinous process fracture of my c-7 vertebrae in my neck. Fracture not near the spinal cord but on the bones that stick out along the back. Fracture is stable no surgery needed and it will heal itself, just have a neck brace on for 4 - 6 weeks to make sure no further damage happens. I consider myself very lucky and as everyone has told me this could have been much worse, especially without the helmet. To think about how many people are out there doing tree work without helmets is scary, I will never be without one again. Anyway be careful, and I hope is well.


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## Metals406 (Aug 20, 2012)

Good post and sorry you got whacked pard! Heal up quick so you can go get your revenge!


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## KenJax Tree (Aug 20, 2012)

Yup they work but its gotta be on your head.


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## Tree services. (Aug 21, 2012)

A Hard hat is number 1 on my PPE,


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## Youngbuck20 (Aug 22, 2012)

removed a 50-60 foot trembling aspen yesterday. just a notch n drop. everything went just fine, had to pull it one way a bit to miss the house. anyways it falls so i begin to walk along the tree to start cutting the brush off and i get smoked in the noggin with a branch from who knows where. about 2"-3" diameter and 10 feet long, had some force with it! hit me square on the bucket knocking it off my head. was just a favour job (like i do anything else) and usually wouldnt wear a bucket for something like that. Ill be wearing one from now on cause that could have caused some serious damage. live and learn.


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## stihl023/5 (Aug 22, 2012)

Yes they do work and I have had many close calls. Stay safe:smile2:


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## tooold (Aug 23, 2012)

A couple of years ago, my neighbor was cutting a tree and a small dead piece fell from above and hit him in the head. He had over 30 stitches because the hat he was wearing didn't protect him. He now wears a helmet/face shield.


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## tramp bushler (Aug 25, 2012)

Good post. I'm glad your OK! !!!! 
I ain't much on guys wearing dented up tin hats. They think it's cool or that it has personality. They get a smack on the head like you did and it will be their personality that changes. Like sitting in a wheelchair drooling and having their diapers changed.
Most hard hats are designed for 10/10 . 10 lbs from 10 feet above. Its not hard to greatly exceed that. I've got hit 4 times where my hard hat probably saved my life. But have never had the suspension cut my scalp. You seriously got hit! !!! What brand hat/helmet were you wearing? ?


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## pdqdl (Aug 25, 2012)

tramp bushler said:


> ... But have never had the suspension cut my scalp. You seriously got hit! !!! What brand hat/helmet were you wearing? ?



No doubt! I was wondering if the suspension failed and got mashed into his head, or if the suspension just delivered so much force that his skin was severed. 

I'm betting on the latter.


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## Dadatwins (Aug 25, 2012)

tramp bushler said:


> Good post. I'm glad your OK! !!!!
> I ain't much on guys wearing dented up tin hats. They think it's cool or that it has personality. They get a smack on the head like you did and it will be their personality that changes. Like sitting in a wheelchair drooling and having their diapers changed.
> Most hard hats are designed for 10/10 . 10 lbs from 10 feet above. Its not hard to greatly exceed that. I've got hit 4 times where my hard hat probably saved my life. But have never had the suspension cut my scalp. You seriously got hit! !!! What brand hat/helmet were you wearing? ?



MSA brand with ratcheting 4 point suspension, class E type 1, had the forestry shield and ear muffs attached. It is now hanging in my shop, retired and dated for a job well done. Thing only has a scratch on top. Almost 3" v shaped scar on my head is perfect shape of the suspension. Looking at some other types of helmets and different suspension systems but they do really all look similar, with the exception of a 6 point suspension on some.


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## Dadatwins (Aug 25, 2012)

pdqdl said:


> No doubt! I was wondering if the suspension failed and got mashed into his head, or if the suspension just delivered so much force that his skin was severed.
> 
> I'm betting on the latter.



Suspension still intact and is still functional, albeit some DNA residue on it. It is however retired with the helmet.


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## tramp bushler (Aug 25, 2012)

This is just a thot, and I may be wrong. But perhaps a 6 point would be a good next hat for a while. At the least it wouldn't put the same pressure on the same spots on your head.
It may just be guilding the lily and I would be surprised if a 6 point is any stronger than a 4 point. But it may be more comfortable. .


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## pdqdl (Aug 25, 2012)

I'm glad I read this thread.

It sounds obvious that the 4-point suspension literally tore your skin when it applied lots of spreading tractive force to your noggin. I would expect less of that problem from a 6 point.

I had always assumed that a 6 point was stronger, but I had never suspected that the suspension itself would injure the wearer. More area=less force applied per sq. inch of scalp with 6 point. I also had always assumed that there would be more shock absorption with less transfer to your head by the 4 point, since it would be less strong and more stretchy under a load.

I wonder if anybody out there knows more on the topic?


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## lone wolf (Aug 25, 2012)

Difference Between 4 & 6 Point Ratchet Suspension Hard Hats

by Dave Chin
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Difference Between 4 & 6 Point Ratchet Suspension Hard Hats

When it comes to work safety, the hard hat is the most important line of defense. Modern day work sites are battlefields and coming prepared with top of the line defenses is no laughing matter. Recent advances in technology along with improved OSHA standards have led to the development of the modern day hard-hat helmet. With these modern day developments comes the suspension hard-hat, a helmet designed to lessen the impact of a blow by transferring the force into various straps located inside the helmet - and away from a person's head. These suspension helmets have shown in studies to reduce the likelihood of serious trauma and allows a person to walk away from an otherwise fatal accident.

Suspension hard-hats come in two different models, 4 point (pt) suspension and 6 pt suspension. The first main difference between these models is the amount of suspension each helmet contains; the 4 pt models have only two straps on each side for a total of 4 pts while the 6pt models have 3 straps per each side. Although both deemed safe by OSHA and ANSI a person should look into what type of work will be done to determine which helmet to wear. 6 pt suspension models offer superior protection in regards to blows in which the lateral side of the head comes in contact, or the blow comes from an off-center axis, whereas 4 pt models offer good coverage for the side of the head with superior protection for the front and top.

A person's safety should always come first, and when choosing a hard-hat a 6pt option is always the safest bet. With more straps to distribute force away from the head a person is much less likely to walk away from trauma unscathed.


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## lone wolf (Aug 25, 2012)

All hard hats are classified according to the specific impact and electrical performance requirements they are designed to meet. This classification is also commonly refered to as the ANSI Z89.1 standard. All hard hats in accordance with this standard meet or exceed either Type I or Type II impact requirements. In addition to type classifications, all hard hats are further classified as meeting Class G, Class E, or Class C electrical requirements. Below we outline each of these types and electrical classes.

All hard hats are shipped with an ANSI certification label on the inside of the hard hat’s shell. This label will clearly identify what type and class standards it was designed to meet. If this label is missing or cannot be read it is recommended that it should be replaced.
Hard Hat Impact Types
Type I Hard Hats

Type I hard hats are intended to reduce the force of impact resulting for a blow only to the top of the head. All hard hats, except bump caps, listed on the Cooper Safety website are Type I (top impact) hard hats.
Type II Hard Hats

Type II hard hats are intended to reduce the force of impact resulting from a blow which may be received off center or to the top of the head. A Type II hard hat typically is lined on the inside with thick high density foam.
Electrical Classes
Class G (General)

Class G hard hats are intended to reduce the danger of contact exposure to low voltage conductors. Test samples are proof tested at 2200 volts (phase to ground). However, this voltage is not intended as an indication of the voltage at which the hard hat protects the wearer. Please note: Class G hard hats were formerly known as Class A.
Class E (Electrical)

Class E hard hats are intended to reduce the danger of exposure to high voltage conductors. Test samples are proof-tested at 20,000 volts (phase to ground). However, this voltage is not intended as an indication of the voltage at which the helmet protects the wearer. Please note: Class E hard hats were formerly known as Class B.
Class C (Conductive)

Class C hard hats are not intended to provide protection against contact with electrical conductors.


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## tramp bushler (Aug 25, 2012)

I make it a practice to stay away from electric lines. I don't like that stuff. 
No doubt a lot of you have to work close to it.

One thing we always knew was that aluminum hard hats would dent in and absorb impact where as plastic ones would transfer the impact force into your neck. 

Whenever possible I wear an aluminum hard hat. 

Not looking to argue. Just saying I don't know a professional timber Faller who hasn't had to retire a hard hat from impact. Usually getting widow makered. . Myself included. And I don't know one who was saved by a plastic that an aluminum one wouldn't have done just as well.

BUT aren't many high voltage lines out in the timber.


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## lone wolf (Aug 25, 2012)

tramp bushler said:


> I make it a practice to stay away from electric lines. I don't like that stuff.
> No doubt a lot of you have to work close to it.
> 
> One thing we always knew was that aluminum hard hats would dent in and absorb impact where as plastic ones would transfer the impact force into your neck.
> ...



Well there sure are over here! I hate them! It seems deadwood is the major concern when dropping trees always have a plan right? I work with some stubborn know it all's that don't listen when I tell them to put the safety gear on.


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## Philbert (Aug 25, 2012)

lone wolf said:


> 6 pt suspension models offer superior protection in regards to blows in which the lateral side of the head comes in contact, or the blow comes from an off-center axis, whereas 4 pt models offer good coverage for the side of the head with superior protection for the front and top.



I work in safety and have asked several manufacturer's reps about this. Regular hard hats are tested for impact from above. The suspension is designed to absorb much of the impact, which is why you should replace a helmet that has sustained a severe blow, even if no damage is visible, and why you should not store things like packs of cigarettes between the suspension and the shell.

I don't believe that there is a difference in side impact resistance between 4 and 6 point suspensions.

The Type II helmets have a rigid foam liner - like a bicycle helmet - around the sides, in addition to the suspension, to protect against side impact. I have a couple of these. They are slightly larger, heavier, and hotter than Type I helmets due to this foam. They are currently quite a bit more expensive than a conventional helmet - in the $40 -$60 range for a basic Type II helmet, compared to $6 to $12 for a basic Type I hard hat.

Philbert


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## Dadatwins (Aug 26, 2012)

Good info on this thread, as stated the helmet and suspension in use showed very little damage - a scratch to it if anything. EMS at the scene definitely said that with no helmet, I would have been much worse and probable DOA given what I did have to be carried away from. I am scared of anyone working out there without a helmet. Can state without question, no helmet + tree work = a fool. I consider myself very lucky, a few inches away from the helmet and I could have been looking at broken shoulder, collarbone, back, face, who knows? This is a scary and dangerous business, and I have come to believe those that preach not a question of IF you will get hurt, but WHEN. Be careful.


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## BarkBuster20 (Aug 26, 2012)

Just dont think a hat will save you every time, not that hard to break a neck.


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## tramp bushler (Aug 26, 2012)

Ya. Hopefully this winter I'll work for a while falling real timber on a coastal island. It gets real windy and there is no sense going there if you don't know how to cut timber in high wind. This is a specialized skillset that only comes from experience. I know so many Fallers that either got killed or hurt real bad I know how deadly hanging onto a power saw for a living is. People who think they don't need a hardhat are not worth dealing with.


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## pdqdl (Sep 3, 2012)

BarkBuster20 said:


> Just dont think a hat will save you every time, not that hard to break a neck.



No, your hard hat can't save you every time, but it will never hurt to have it on for something worse. Your argument is kinda like saying your steel cap boots won't protect you from broken ankles.

I have broken both head and neck. I was in intensive care for 4 days on the broken head, I walked out of the hospital the next day with 3 broken cervical vertebra. I got the head injury from falling down on a curb while standing up and I got the broken neck from a head-on car crash. 

I'm not saying that a broken neck ain't bad, particularly if it damages your spinal chord. I'm not saying that all head injuries are worse than all neck injuries. It's just that your brain is much more fragile to fast blows from hard objects than your neck is. A sharp blow to your skull easily causes a hematoma (subdural or epidural) and before you know it, you just died from getting whacked on the head.

If you can wear a hard hat and laugh off a pine cone hitting you on the head, it's worth wearing it. If you get clubbed by a falling branch and get off with some stitches instead of permanent brain damage, it's all worth it.


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## Fedaburger (Sep 3, 2012)

Glad your okay and thank you for posting. I was always complaining about hard hats but it didn't take long to realize and appreciate we need lids!!!


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## husqvarnaguy (Sep 3, 2012)

My cousin was shaking a powerpole with a brick on top of it. The brick fell and hit him in the head. The brick broke but he was unhurt. Dont know how high it was but still thats a hard head.


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## tramp bushler (Sep 3, 2012)

I don't know if I give him higher marks for being able to shake a powerpole or for being able to break a brick with his head. .????:msp_ohmy:


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## lone wolf (Sep 3, 2012)

tramp bushler said:


> I don't know if I give him higher marks for being able to shake a powerpole or for being able to break a brick with his head. .????:msp_ohmy:


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## pdqdl (Sep 3, 2012)

husqvarnaguy said:


> My cousin was shaking a powerpole with a brick on top of it. The brick fell and hit him in the head. The brick broke but he was unhurt. Dont know how high it was but still thats a hard head.



That's a really dirty trick. Somebody should have been beaten for that.


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## tramp bushler (Sep 5, 2012)

2 questions come to mind ,,, who would put a brick on top of a power pole. And why put a brick on top of a powerpole. ??.


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## lone wolf (Sep 5, 2012)

tramp bushler said:


> 2 questions come to mind ,,, who would put a brick on top of a power pole. And why put a brick on top of a powerpole. ??.



It had to be placed not thrown that leaves out kids. I have no idea why?


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## pdqdl (Sep 5, 2012)

No other possibility than a lineman leaving a dirty trick for the next guy that climbs the pole.


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## lone wolf (Sep 5, 2012)

pdqdl said:


> No other possibility than a lineman leaving a dirty trick for the next guy that climbs the pole.



Lost his job maybe.


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