# Tying off to a spar w/ climb line while spiking .



## david1332 (Sep 1, 2016)

So in order to make a me a little more comfortable while doing larger takedowns on my spikes I want to be able to tie off my climb line onto the spar I'm working. Can I have a couple different methods for this? Obviously I can just choke my line onto itself but then it's srt and I know the zigzag doesn't like that very much and I don't want to risk it 50 feet in the air. Options please


----------



## treesmith (Sep 1, 2016)

Large ART rope guide/rope guide twin line, basically a retrievable chokable mid stem anchor point

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


----------



## david1332 (Sep 1, 2016)

treesmith said:


> Large ART rope guide/rope guide twin line, basically a retrievable chokable mid stem anchor point
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


Anything a little more budget friendly? Lol


----------



## BuckmasterStumpGrinding (Sep 1, 2016)

Try a rope wrench setup with the zig zag. Throw in some ascenders and you will be ready for srt for the same price as the art rope guide.


----------



## Bmezz88 (Sep 1, 2016)

Choke the spar with a friction saver


----------



## Bmezz88 (Sep 1, 2016)

or get an adjustable friction saver


----------



## Bmezz88 (Sep 1, 2016)

https://www.treestuff.com/store/catalog.asp?category_id=348&item=11150


----------



## david1332 (Sep 1, 2016)

Could I just take some spare rope and tie it around the spar with a 2 glad hitch backed up by a another hitch or two and attach a micropulley to it via a carabiner? That would also create a nice bend radius in my rope right?


----------



## Bmezz88 (Sep 1, 2016)

as long as it cinches tight, it sounds like a good idea. I have never tried it personally.


----------



## david1332 (Sep 1, 2016)

Bmezz88 said:


> as long as it cinches tight, it sounds like a good idea. I have never tried it personally.


The only reason I suggest it as supposed to an AFS is so I can use it for larger spars


----------



## Bmezz88 (Sep 1, 2016)

how big of a spar if you don't mind me asking?


----------



## Bmezz88 (Sep 1, 2016)

i have the same AFS. Its about 5 foot long.


----------



## david1332 (Sep 1, 2016)

Well here's the tree. I've got about 2/3 of it down and this is what's left. Pretty large black oak. 
60 feet tall and about 3 feet or so at the base. Biggest I've done so far


----------



## Bmezz88 (Sep 1, 2016)

david1332 said:


> Could I just take some spare rope and tie it around the spar with a 2 glad hitch backed up by a another hitch or two and attach a micropulley to it via a carabiner? That would also create a nice bend radius in my rope right?



Or you could just buy, or if you already have a whoopie sling. A lot easier to move up and down the spar with you. Attach pulley to the whoopie with a biner.


----------



## david1332 (Sep 1, 2016)

That picture doesn't show how big the trunk is where the two co-dominate stems meet


----------



## Bmezz88 (Sep 1, 2016)

I can just about see the split in the second picture. She's a nice size tree you got there


----------



## david1332 (Sep 1, 2016)

Yeah she's been fun! Rigged out slot of heavy wood over those two houses, got a good amount of work from it so far!


----------



## acer-kid (Sep 1, 2016)

Running bowline. Choked. Leave a LONG tail on the bowline. Make the tail as long as the pieces you're blocking out. Say.. 6-8'. Run the down leg through an 8 (or any descender). 
Knock your piece off.
Rappel the 8'
Retrieve choked bowline with long tail.
Cinch at waist. Remove slack. Hard lock 8.
Repeat.

That's about as cheap as it comes.


----------



## david1332 (Sep 1, 2016)

acer-kid said:


> Running bowline. Choked. Leave a LONG tail on the bowline. Make the tail as long as the pieces you're blocking out. Say.. 6-8'. Run the down leg through an 8 (or any descender).
> Knock your piece off.
> Rappel the 8'
> Retrieve choked bowline with long tail.
> ...


Could I use a prusik instead of an 8?


----------



## david1332 (Sep 1, 2016)

Only because I'm not familiar with an 8


----------



## Bmezz88 (Sep 1, 2016)

I'd imagine the prusik would lock up on you with all your body weight on it.


----------



## Tree94 (Sep 1, 2016)

im having a hard time understanding your question.
so you want to tie off onto the trunk of the tree you're cutting/blocking out?
like for example, you want to tie off in a situation such as the tree in my profile pic?


----------



## david1332 (Sep 1, 2016)

Tree94 said:


> im having a hard time understanding your question.
> so you want to tie off onto the trunk of the tree you're cutting/blocking out?
> like for example, you want to tie off in a situation such as the tree in my profile pic?


Yes that's exactly what I'm saying


----------



## david1332 (Sep 1, 2016)

For emergency descents and such


----------



## acer-kid (Sep 1, 2016)

Quick answer.. no. A Prussik will be a pain in the ass. UNLESS.. you use a carabiner with a munters hitch under it. Or a rope wrench. Something to add some extra friction. Help take some load away from the hitch.


----------



## acer-kid (Sep 1, 2016)

Figure 8's are really easy to use. Google them. They're also cheap as hell. I think you can get one from CT Italy, for like.. 10 bucks.


----------



## Bmezz88 (Sep 1, 2016)

https://www.treestuff.com/store/catalog.asp?category_id=121&item=1350


----------



## acer-kid (Sep 1, 2016)

Bingo.


----------



## david1332 (Sep 1, 2016)

Should I get one with the ears? I feel like it could lock up real easy without them?


----------



## acer-kid (Sep 1, 2016)

It won't. As far as I know, the ears are for varying friction on larger loads. Like in a rescue scenario. In my neck of the woods we refer to eared eights as "rescue eights".


----------



## acer-kid (Sep 1, 2016)

And they're big and clunky AF.


----------



## david1332 (Sep 1, 2016)

acer-kid said:


> And they're big and clunky AF.


Thanks I'll order one tonight! Any other random piece of gear that would be useful? For anything really. Besides the obvious slings and such


----------



## jefflovstrom (Sep 1, 2016)

david1332 said:


> So in order to make a me a little more comfortable while doing larger takedowns on my spikes I want to be able to tie off my climb line onto the spar I'm working. Can I have a couple different methods for this? Obviously I can just choke my line onto itself but then it's srt and I know the zigzag doesn't like that very much and I don't want to risk it 50 feet in the air. Options please



Put your 'Man-Suit' on, 
do you know where you left it?
Don't get mad,,
Jeff


----------



## david1332 (Sep 1, 2016)

jefflovstrom said:


> Put your 'Man-Suit' on,
> do you know where you left it?
> Don't get mad,,
> Jeff


Yeah about 55 feet up in the oak I posted hanging over the 2 homes lol


----------



## BC WetCoast (Sep 2, 2016)

Take your climbing line and cross it as it goes around the tree. This will be your second tie in, backing up your lanyard. 

I have an adjustable friction saver. It gives you more confidence, but moving it around is a giant pain in the ass. Much faster to use a double lanyard system.


----------



## acer-kid (Sep 2, 2016)

You don't really need a ton of gear, man. Since you're new to a figure eight, back it up with a Prussik. Because if you let go of the break leg.. splat. No good. 

I always have a climb line with me. I don't like just a double lanyard. Like you mentioned; no immediate, fast route to ground. I prefer a rope wrench. It's pricey if you just plan to use it for spar anchoring. But once you have one, it becomes wildly beneficial in big spreading hardwoods. Multiple redirects and stupid amounts of anchoring options become available. Look into single rope technique. You may just like it. @david1332


----------



## TheJollyLogger (Sep 2, 2016)

And... seriously, spend a couple hundos on gear you won't regret


----------



## david1332 (Sep 2, 2016)

TheJollyLogger said:


> And... seriously, spend a couple hundos on gear you won't regret


Trust me I have! I've upgraded my saddle, bought a foot ascender, couple micro pulleys, lots of carabiners and webbing slings, a ZigZag ( should've been a rope wrench or hitch hiker in hindsight) , better padding for my spurs, suspenders for my saddle. They make a huge difference


----------



## david1332 (Sep 2, 2016)

acer-kid said:


> You don't really need a ton of gear, man. Since you're new to a figure eight, back it up with a Prussik. Because if you let go of the break leg.. splat. No good.
> 
> I always have a climb line with me. I don't like just a double lanyard. Like you mentioned; no immediate, fast route to ground. I prefer a rope wrench. It's pricey if you just plan to use it for spar anchoring. But once you have one, it becomes wildly beneficial in big spreading hardwoods. Multiple redirects and stupid amounts of anchoring options become available. Look into single rope technique. You may just like it. @david1332


Yeah definitely! I'm always open to suggestions as a new guy! I'm sure there's tons of stuff I don't know. I would love to work with a climber On a few jobs just to pick up a few things here and there.


----------



## TheJollyLogger (Sep 3, 2016)

Kinda scared me you've never used an eight. Do you have any training?


----------



## david1332 (Sep 3, 2016)

TheJollyLogger said:


> Kinda scared me you've never used an eight. Do you have any training?


Self taught mainly but I've watched all the working climber dvds, read the tree climbers companion and a lot on here. I've worked with a few other climbers to teach me a few things but nothing too much. Just basic climbing technique and basic rigging ( natural crotch) . 

I want to work with other climbers but it's kinda tough when I have my own company going


----------



## BuckmasterStumpGrinding (Sep 3, 2016)

The rope wrench zigzag combo looks pretty slick. You might look into it for a cheapish upgrade.


----------



## david1332 (Sep 3, 2016)

BuckmasterStumpGrinding said:


> The rope wrench zigzag combo looks pretty slick. You might look into it for a cheapish upgrade.


How would that work? Just attach the tether to the zigzag via carabiner on the top of the zig zag?


----------



## treesmith (Sep 3, 2016)

david1332 said:


> Trust me I have! I've upgraded my saddle, bought a foot ascender, couple micro pulleys, lots of carabiners and webbing slings, a ZigZag ( should've been a rope wrench or hitch hiker in hindsight) , better padding for my spurs, suspenders for my saddle. They make a huge difference


So now get a rope guide 

What size stems are you on? 

You can make a loopy or adjustable dead eye sling with a caribiner and pulley one end and adjustable loop the other, choke it then ddrt off that, wouldn't be retrievable but would be a good bail out anchor and cheap to make, google hollow braid splicing

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk


----------



## jtc16 (Sep 3, 2016)

Choking an adjustable friction saver seems like a good idea. I'd suggest maybe starting to look into srt though. Has made my life a lot easier since I got srt gear. The cheapest method for you would probably just be to choke a 10 ft piece of rope with a delta link or something tied on one end, know on the other end and have yourself hooked on a prusik like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/151771880058?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

It'll catch you if you fall but then you'd have to get your position again.


----------



## jtc16 (Sep 3, 2016)

i meant knot on the other end*


----------



## jtc16 (Sep 3, 2016)

Like this. You can't lower yourself you the ground so you'd have to regain control of your position with spikes and lanyard if you fall. But still technically safer than just lanyarding I'd say.


----------



## jtc16 (Sep 3, 2016)

Like this


----------



## jtc16 (Sep 3, 2016)

Didn't read the whole post before. If you want to have the option to descend not just fall arrest then i think your best bet is choking a friction saver if you're ddrt or figure 8 on a choked single line. Or get srt gear if you find yourself with enough money.


----------



## david1332 (Sep 3, 2016)

In thinking about buying a rope wrench to go with my zigzag so I can srt


----------



## acer-kid (Sep 3, 2016)

david1332 said:


> In thinking about buying a rope wrench to go with my zigzag so I can srt


Brilliant. Especially since you already have a foot ascender. Get something to tend the wrench as you climb. Like a webbing sling used as a chest harness. I like a bungee neck tether. Some guys freak out about strangulation. Meh. Couldn't imagine. Hope I'm not wrong. Srt is the ****, man. It isn't the answer for every tree.. but it pretty much is. Welcome to the cult.


----------



## acer-kid (Sep 3, 2016)

jtc16 said:


> Like this


Putting a figure eight (or biner and munters) under that would work to get you to the ground as well as being safety backed up.


----------



## BuckmasterStumpGrinding (Sep 4, 2016)

david1332 said:


> How would that work? Just attach the tether to the zigzag via carabiner on the top of the zig zag?


Use an oceans tether to connect the two as pictured.


----------



## BuckmasterStumpGrinding (Sep 4, 2016)

Steve connally and august hunicky used this system for quite a while. I think they have moved on to the fully mechanical srt systems now though.


----------



## david1332 (Sep 4, 2016)

BuckmasterStumpGrinding said:


> Use an oceans tether to connect the two as pictured.


Wouldn't that bend the zigzag in a way that would stress out the links?


----------



## BuckmasterStumpGrinding (Sep 4, 2016)

Quite a few people have used it without incident. Just watch out on the 2014 and earlier models ddrt or srt. they can have defective links and will be replaced by petzl free of charge. On the bright side the defects have not caused any injuries


----------



## david1332 (Sep 4, 2016)

And attach a neck tether to the zigzag right?


----------



## ropensaddle (Sep 4, 2016)

acer-kid said:


> Running bowline. Choked. Leave a LONG tail on the bowline. Make the tail as long as the pieces you're blocking out. Say.. 6-8'. Run the down leg through an 8 (or any descender).
> Knock your piece off.
> Rappel the 8'
> Retrieve choked bowline with long tail.
> ...


Yup and throw in a gri gri and art positioner and that is my spar set up!


----------



## TheJollyLogger (Sep 4, 2016)

OK, let's cut to the chase. You're looking for a secondary tie in while blocking down a spar. One, to have a second attachment point, ( Tie In Twice Stupid , or T.I.T.S., as we all learned from the TCC.)
Two, to have a bail out line, preferably a one handed path to the ground in case of injury or anything else sudden and unexpected. This set up should be easy to reposition for production reasons, and easy to use in case of an emergency.

For these reasons, forget Ddrt, and your zigzag. Simplest method is some sort of choked srt tie in. Cheapest method is a hard locked Munter or figure eight, but those are methods I would only recommend to someone who has been using them for quite some time in various scenarios. Both are dynamic two handed methods that require a lot of practice to use smoothly and safely in any sort of high stress situation, which is the only time you will actually use your back up.

Which brings us to the best solution. Choked lifeline with a handled decender of some sort. My personal favorite is the Petzl RIG, due to the locked work position, and smooth cam. I'D is nice too. Grigri is ok, but tougher to use in a stressful situation.

Ddrt is still great for work positioning, but in this particular situation, more trouble than it's worth.


----------



## BuckmasterStumpGrinding (Sep 4, 2016)

david1332 said:


> And attach a neck tether to the zigzag right?


The neck tether goes to the top hole on the zigzag. It is only needed for ascent.


----------



## acer-kid (Sep 4, 2016)

TheJollyLogger said:


> OK, let's cut to the chase. You're looking for a secondary tie in while blocking down a spar. One, to have a second attachment point, ( Tie In Twice Stupid , or T.I.T.S., as we all learned from the TCC.)
> Two, to have a bail out line, preferably a one handed path to the ground in case of injury or anything else sudden and unexpected. This set up should be easy to reposition for production reasons, and easy to use in case of an emergency.
> 
> For these reasons, forget Ddrt, and your zigzag. Simplest method is some sort of choked srt tie in. Cheapest method is a hard locked Munter or figure eight, but those are methods I would only recommend to someone who has been using them for quite some time in various scenarios. Both are dynamic two handed methods that require a lot of practice to use smoothly and safely in any sort of high stress situation, which is the only time you will actually use your back up.
> ...


Great post. And great points.


----------



## ropensaddle (Sep 5, 2016)

TheJollyLogger said:


> OK, let's cut to the chase. You're looking for a secondary tie in while blocking down a spar. One, to have a second attachment point, ( Tie In Twice Stupid , or T.I.T.S., as we all learned from the TCC.)
> Two, to have a bail out line, preferably a one handed path to the ground in case of injury or anything else sudden and unexpected. This set up should be easy to reposition for production reasons, and easy to use in case of an emergency.
> 
> For these reasons, forget Ddrt, and your zigzag. Simplest method is some sort of choked srt tie in. Cheapest method is a hard locked Munter or figure eight, but those are methods I would only recommend to someone who has been using them for quite some time in various scenarios. Both are dynamic two handed methods that require a lot of practice to use smoothly and safely in any sort of high stress situation, which is the only time you will actually use your back up.
> ...


I had bought the gri gri before the rig came out or I would be likely using the rig as it looks smooth! I have used my rope wrench but for myself it shines elsewhere in canopy etc. Having climbed taught line over two decades, I have totally reinvented myself these past four years and find srt the cats meaow and with the wraptor I actually find climbing pleasant again  Im still dialing in on the wrench/hass/foot ascender it works much better than hip thrusting 50 foot lol but it still ain't no wraptor ride


----------

