# My firewood processor build



## muddstopper (Apr 10, 2015)

Well, its been a long time since I actually started this project. and I havent actually built anything yet, so no pictures. That is about to change, so I thought I would give a little history behind my thought process when it comes to building this processor. Plus, its raining outside and I'm bored

A few years ago, I was heating with all electric, had one of those Kerosun heaters for emergencies, but we seldom used it. Cold winter and a $300 power bill in Oct of that year and wifey decided to surprise me with a wood stove. My house has a basement and there used to be a wood stove installed, but the old stove was burnt out and I didnt want to use it. Took it out and threw it away back in 1999. Now my wife being the person she is had enough of those $300-400 power bills and thought a wood stove was the answer. Never mine the fact that I didnt have any firewood laying around, or any potential sources to get any. I had a saw and a truck and a axe so time to start scrounging. Made it thru the winter with green wood and power bill dropped to just over $100 and my wife was hooked. Wood stove means her a new pair of shoes or something, I dont know, but the stove was here to stay. 

The next summer, I scrounged wood everywhere I could find it and rented a splitter to do the splitting. some of the wood i was getting just wasnt maul material, but it was wood. Next winter, some dry wood, but mostly green because i didnt like to rent the splitter unless I had a big stack of wood to workup. Went through simial the next summer and winter. and thats when I decided I needed a splitter.

I had a lot of junk laying around. I had bought a cylinder and control valve probably 20years ago to build a splitter with and had never gotten around to it. I wasnt burning wood so didnt really need it. I had used the cylinder to build a 6x10 dump trailer with. Well now I needed a splitter and the dump trailer was seldom used, so splitter build began. I have built a few splitters over the years and had rented a few so I had an ideal of what I wanted to build. I had a old Finn hydroseeder I had stopped using setting out back and it had a nearly new 25hp engine. I found a V20 Vickers vane pump in the scrap yard for $2. I had a 6x6 Hbeam in the scrap pile and a old boat trailer without a boat. So with pretty much everything on hand to put a decent splitter together, I started my build. I looked at the large splitter at Northerntool that had the adjustable height 4way wedge and knew I wanted to incorporate that in my design. Threw that thing together in a couple of weekend and life was good. Finally got ahead in my wood pile but then needed something to haul wood home.

That brings me back to my next splitter modification, I needed my dump trailer back working and I decided to buy a bigger cyl for the splitter. Northerntool had their 5in bore cyl on sale for around $249 or something and I thought nows the time to fix my dump trailer and soup up the splitter in one stroke. I installed the 5in cyl on the splitter and whoa, major slowdown in cycle times. I solved this by swapping out the pump for a 28gpm. Cycle times improved measureably and with the exta power I added a couple ore wedges and made it a 6way split instead of a 4way. at that point, splitting wood almost became fun. Big rounds, no problems, plenty of power and fast enough to make very short work of a big pile of rounds.

Enter processor ideal. Of course I had looked at every processor on youtube. I went to a couple of places that actually sold firewood and used processors and tried their machines out. I wasnt impressed, but it did beat running a chainsaw. I decided I wanted a bigger hydraulic chainsaw than what most of the manufacturers where using. The chainsaw seemed to be the biggest bottleneck on all the machines Iran and the ones I actually times on youtube. I didnt want a circle saw processor because of the size of wood I process. A circle saw big enough to buck a 30in dia round was too wickly expensive, not to mention all the extra expense of setting up the hydraulics to run one of those big blades. I figured I would build a Walstein style processor that uses the winch to pull the log onto the log trough and build a hydraulic chainsaw with power to block the wood and used my current splitter for the actual splitting.

Well then things took a turn, I found a hydraulic motor I think is capable of getting the job done for the saw, even got a spare for free. called CRD and got a sprocket, bar and chain and build the saw, but havent been able to test it out. It should work, math says it will, but you always have those nagging feelings about something untested. 

I ran across a couple of conveyors for $200, so I bought them. Then gave up the ideal of the winch for feeding the logs. I still needed something to load the logs on the conveyor and thought, why not a knuckle boom, but I didnt want a big heavy knuckleboom. I splitting firewood, not handleing sawlogs. I wanted the knuckleboom mounted on the processor also. I ran across a A620 ditchwitch backhoe attachment for $300 and thought, with a little modification, a ready made knuckle boom, so I bought it. Then I found out it weighed over 3000lbs, Whoa way to heavy to be mounting on a processor. I sold the backhoe attachment for $800 and invested the money in some parts to build my own knuckleboom. I am using a 48000lb big truck axle tube and hub for the boom mount. I bought a #60 72tooth double sprocket and I will be using the agitator motor off the old hydroseeder to turn the boom. Aint built yet, but the parts are laying in the shop floor. well now my processor plans have really blew up from the add a winch to my wood splitter. 

A member here had bought a cylinder off a guy that had several. I cant remember the members name, but he sent me a link to the ad the guy had on craigs list and I contacted him. The cyl have a 30in stroke, 4.5in bore and 2.5in rod, I wanted two, but shipping was higher than the asking price for the cylinders. Guy had 8 cyl and I could get all 8 shipped for about the same cost of shipping 2 so I bought all 8 of them. I sold 6 cylinders and kept 2 (and made $300) and will be using them to make my splitter. Well in order to have any decent cycle time using 2 cylinders, I need lots of oil. 60gpm should keep the splitter up with the saw so thats what I'm shooting for. 

I have aquired a 8x8 hbeam, bought the metal for and built the pusherplate and slide. Found the metal to make the 12way box wedge, found a v70 control valve to handle the 60gpm of oil for the splitter. Found another valve to handle the 30gpm of oil for the saw. All that was freebies out of scrap bins. Paid $20 for a multispool control valve for the knuckle boom. Paid $75 for a 100gal hydraulic tank. Paid anothe $100 for 2 cylinder for the boom on the loader and today found a old forklift frame for mounting my adjustable 12way wedge for another $100. I I still have a few things to find/buy to complete this build. The biggie is a 170-190hp engine to pull the hydraulics, also need to buy a 3section pump for all the functions and the other biggie is going to be buying a rotator for the grapple on the loader. 

So I have been scrounging and gathering parts for this build now for about 5 years and its getting down to the nitty gritty. I finally have enough parts to actually start putting some of this junk together. Unless i get really lucky and someone gives me an engine to power this thing with, it probably wont be completed this year, but I plan on having it built waiting on that engine to fall in my lap. I figured it up the other day and after the buying and selling, I am out of pocket about $1400 in this build at this point. Engine and hydraulic hoses are my last major expenses, as well as a rotator if I have to buy a new one, but I am shooting for keeping this processor build around $5000.


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## muddstopper (Apr 11, 2015)

I had to do a lot of serious thinking when it came to building the chainsaw. I had ran a few processors and simply didnt like the speed at which they where able to buck a round. One thing I saw in common with the machines I ran was the type of hydraulic motor they where using. Basicly what the manufacturers where using where gear motors. To get the speed they needed for a chainsaw, they overflowed the oil. Meaning they had a hydraulic motor rated for a certain flow and speed and they threw more oil at it to get it to run faster. I dont know if overflowing the oil is a issue in this application, but it certainly did seem like it should cause a maintenance issue with that approach. Chain speed wasnt the only issue I observed with those factory saw. Lack of power is another. Every hydraulic chainsaw I operated it was very easy to bog the saw where you had to lift the bar and let the saw rev back up before completeing the cut. And this was sawing what i consider small wood. I knew the wood I would be processing was going to be much larger than the capabilities of those machines, and what I was seeing just wasnt acceptable.

I did some thinking about how much saw I wanted and decided a Husquvarnia 3120 was about a badass a saw as you could buy. Uses a .404 chain instead of a 3/8 as well. I decided to try and match the chain speed and power of that saw. Yea, a 395xp will probably cut faster than the 3120, but you say tomato and I say tomatoe, whatever. Anyways, a 3120 saw has 8.4hp, turns 9000rpms and makes 7.7nm of torque. Chain speed is 87.6 ftsec. I figured if i could match those numbers I should have a hydraulic saw that would out perform the ones I had ran on other machines.

Now everybody concerns themself with rpms to get their chain speed, and it is one factor, but not the deciding factor. Pitch of chain and number of teeth on the sprocket can make a big difference in how fast the chain will run around the bar. Gas powered chainsaws have little crank shaft dia and use little bitty sprockets, which is why they have to turn 9grand to get the saws to cut. Take a slower motor and a larger sprocket and you can get the same ftsec of chain speed as you would if your motor turned 9000rpm. If you look at the f11 motors, they turn massive rpms and cut very fast but they have their drawback. It takes around 5000psi of hydraulic pressure to get that fast cut. Gear motors cant turn the rpms of the f11/f12 motors but they will make as much torque with less hyd pressure. I choose to use a radial piston motor. A radial pistion motor will turn more rpms than a gear motor without having to overflow the oil to get there. A radial piston motor will create more torque than a f11 style motor without needing the expensive high pressure hydraulic system to get there. Match hydraulic motor size to proper oil flow and pressure, choose the right size sprocket and its pretty easy to match chain speed of a 3120 chainsaw, with the added benefit of more hp and torque. I choose a 1.3cuin hyd motor and will run 25gpm @3000psi of oil thru the motor to get around 4440 rpms. wth a 13tooth sprocket and .404 chain and I should have 5 times the torque and up to 4 times the hp of a 3120 chainsaw and a chain speed almost similar to the same 3120 chainsaw. I dont plan on running the saw with 34 hp and 3000psi. I will start my pressures at around 700psi and work up from there. I should still have around 11hp at the saw which is still more than the 3120. Saw should cut, but My theories havent been tested yet.


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## KiwiBro (Apr 11, 2015)

Subscribing. Looking forward to this build. I suspect that as you work up to full pressure you'll be able to drop rakers and eat through the log and not care about chain speed.


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## KiwiBro (Apr 11, 2015)

Is 30" the max diameter you are building for? Do you see much wood over that and just not really enough to justify designing to handle bigger? If you see 30"+ wood, will you be bucking and noodling by hand, adding a splitting cone to the boom to split the bigger logs down to smaller sizes, or?

What size are the splits going to end up with the 12-way box wedge? Say a 30"round goes in there - will any of the splits need re-splitting and if so, are you having to manually separate those out before they go up the conveyor or is there some sort of grill shooting those off to the side or?

How are you handing the inevitable scraps and trash? Going to filter that straight off the wedge, off the top of the conveyor, both, neither, or?

How are you oiling the bar - bleeding a wee bit of hydraulic fluid or pumping bar oil and if the latter how are you controlling the rate and on/off?

Really looking forward to this build thread.


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## rancher2 (Apr 11, 2015)

Muddstopper. What racial piston motors are you looking at. I am wanting to build a saw also I have the same concerns on using a regular hyd motor. I just priced a sunfab scm12 and scm17 motors. $1,000 and $1,500. I am thinking strongly thinking about belt drive and a electric clutch on a smaller two cylinder motor cut the cost on the engine and hyd components. If you are going to used a big diesel engine look at combine engines they seem to be the best value in our area.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Apr 12, 2015)

What processors did you try out that did this "Every hydraulic chainsaw I operated it was very easy to bog the saw where you had to lift the bar and let the saw rev back up before completeing the cut. And this was sawing what i consider small wood."?

I've run several machines and never had that happen. The only time I have to fight mine is when the chain is dull.

With the rest of the "holy cow overkill" why not 11H bar/chain? (.75" .122 harvester)


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## muddstopper (Apr 16, 2015)

Well, just got home. After starting this thread, I got called out to work a major trail derailment in Sc. Went 60hrs straight with only 2 hrs rest. Enough to make one think about retirement.

Well after reading thru the questions, I will continue.
The question was asked, about the 30 dia size. While I get plenty of wood over 30in dia, most of the wood is under 2ft dia stuff. My saw bar is only 27in long. I have a pretty good splitter already that will handle what really big wood I get, and I had to draw the line somewhere when it comes to size to process. Any wood larger than 24in dia will most likely have to be resplit, even after going thru a 12way wedge, so I will just keep my current splitter handy for the big wood.

Scraps and trash will go into my shop stove, it a barrel stove and doesnt care what I burn in it.

My oiler will be a electric pump. I plan on a micro switch that activates the pump whenever the saw control valve is activated. I might have to do a little trial and error until I get the oil flow just right, but using a electric pump and a needle valve should work.

I know I said radial piston motor, big goof on my part, I meant axial piston motor. The axial 7piston motor I am using is a Poclain simlar to this one, but bigger, http://www.poclain-hydraulics.com/en/products/motors/m-mv/m1. My motor is s specialty motor spec'ed out a little different, but basicly the same.

The brandname processors I have tried are Blockbuster and Builtrite. Didnt think much of either machine. Both machines would process wood, but both machines where just to slow for my liking. Not saying either machine is bad, or a wrong choice, for someone wanting a cheap processor, but neither machine met my expectations of what I wanted from a processor. I just hope what I am putting together doesnt disappoint me as much as those machines did.

As for not using a 3/4 bar and chain, if i had found a used buck saw reasonable, I would have. When I started this project, I wasnt planning on a 190hp diesel engine to run everything and I bought the .404 bar and chain to go with my plans at the time. I was going to use a 50hp izsusu engine and a single 5inch cylinder for the splitter. Run the splitter and saw off a single 28gpm 2 stage pump. My plans kind of changed according to parts I accumalated while scrounging. If I run across a cheap buck saw in the near future, its still possible I might go that route.


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## nathon918 (Apr 16, 2015)

muddstopper said:


> I got called out to work a major trail derailment in Sc


was it from missing RR ties that someone stole for firewood?


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## ChoppyChoppy (Apr 16, 2015)

I guess it will interesting to see the cycle and speed times. Faster is not away "gooder" as there will always be a bottleneck point.

We have 2 Blockbuster processors at the shop and have had no complaints. They are well built, quick, and very good on fuel.
Generally burn about a gallon to a cord. The older machine is an 18-20 with over 7000hrs.

A couple other guys I know run big hp engines on processor. Not a whole lot quicker "real world" but burn 5-7 gals a cord.


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## muddstopper (Apr 16, 2015)

nathon918 said:


> was it from missing RR ties that someone stole for firewood?


Actually it was a giant tree that fell across the track. I call it the $13,000,000. tree.


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## muddstopper (Apr 16, 2015)

http://www.wspa.com/story/28776128/breaking-train-derailment-in-edgefield-county


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## muddstopper (Apr 16, 2015)

ValleyFirewood said:


> I guess it will interesting to see the cycle and speed times. Faster is not away "gooder" as there will always be a bottleneck point.
> 
> We have 2 Blockbuster processors at the shop and have had no complaints. They are well built, quick, and very good on fuel.
> Generally burn about a gallon to a cord. The older machine is an 18-20 with over 7000hrs.
> ...


_ When it comes to speed, I think a lot has to do with the operator. Even the best of operators cant be fast if the saw cant keep up with the splitter or the splitter cant keep up with the saw. Cords per hr also has a lot to do with the size of the wood being split. With enough power, the splitter doesnt care if the round is 2 ft thru or 6 inches. It takes the cyl the same amount of time to run in and out either way. Difference in time would be measured in nano seconds, but 2ft dia wood will produce a lot more cords of split wood in a given amount of time than 6in dia wood. Every thing but the biggest of processors usually limit round size to about 20in dia. Sawing small dia wood takes a lot less time than sawing big rounds also. I am making mine capable of 27in dia rounds, but I also know that a lot of what I get will be much smaller. I have taken measurements of log sizes that I get for a while now and feel 27in dia will take care of the largest majority of my wood. Anything bigger than 27in dia will go thru my regular splitter. _


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## gulity1 (Apr 18, 2015)

mudstopper I might be able to help with the hyd plumbing, Its what I do I am a mechanic for a car hauler, I do most of our hyd work, repair to re-plumb. Any idea on what you need for hyd hoses? I pretty much only use parker I feel that they offer the best stuff for the most part.


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## muddstopper (Apr 18, 2015)

I havent even started thinking about hoses yet. I have a pretty large assortment of various size hoses laying around, probably not what I will need. I am considering using a lot of steel tube for the long runs, but is hard to come up with a blueprint of hoses needed when your building with plans kept in my head. I'll keep you in mind tho when the time comes. I will say, that the saw will most likely be #12jic hoses and the splitter cyl has 1" ports so most likely #16jic. Control valve is a Parker v70 and I think the ports are 1-1/4 but havent measured them.


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## muddstopper (Apr 18, 2015)

Building the hydraulic saw, 
The saw mount is made out of 3/4 plate. I cut the hole for the hyd motor using a bimetal hole saw. I then drilled and taped the mount for studs to bolt the bar to. I marked where the oil hole was in the bar on the bar mount and drilled and taped for a 1/8 pipe fitting to attach my oiler hose to. The round rod sticking out the side will be drilled and taped to make a chain tensioner with. It will need a little fine tuning once mounted and hooked up, but for now it will do.


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## muddstopper (Apr 18, 2015)

A few pics of some of the other parts I have been working on.
I pile of steel fo the 12way wedge. I trimmed them on a 20degree edge using my home made track torch and then used a cup wheel on a grinder to get them sharp.
One pic is of the rear cyl mounts for the twin splitting cylinders. The pins are 2.5in dia and I used a hole saw to cut the holes.
The pic with the sprocket is the base for my knuckle boom. The hub is a 48000lb truck hub and the sprocket is a 72 tooth, double #60 and will be turned using a stator rotor hyd motor.
The pusher plate is all 1inch metal. It is 27in wide and 20in tall. The base slide is 12in wide and made to fit a 8in Hbeam. The beam will be plated on the top and sides, but I havent gotten around to that yet.


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## muddstopper (Apr 18, 2015)

Some of the hydraulics,
The big control valve is a parker, V70, air over hydraulic. Capable of flowing 70gpm. I plan on a air foot pedal to control the splitter cylinder, but it does have a hand lever if needed. The Yellow cyl are 4.5in bore, 2.5in rod and 30in stroke. Thes should yeild around 53tons at 3000psi of splitting power.

The next pic is of a 10 spool control valve I am considering for the knuckle boom. I have another valve off a backhoe I can use for the boom, and it has joysticks, so I aint sure which setup I will use yet. Leaning toward the joysticks.

The blue solenoid valve is a single acting valve for Rexroth. It will flow 30gpm and is what I plan on using for the saw motor. 

Next pic is of a hyd oil cooler, rated for 250psi and will most likely be plumbed into the saw motor circuit on the return.

Last pics of the black cylinders are for the root and dipper boom for the loader. They are 3.5in bore, with a 24in stroke. I almost pulled my hair out trying to figure out the mounting points on the base and loader to make these cylinders work.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Apr 18, 2015)

You mentioned wanting to be able to cut 27" across logs. What length is that bar?


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## muddstopper (Apr 19, 2015)

The bar, with chain, measures just over 28in from bar mount to tip. As the chain wears and stretches, it should reach a little over that. Do you see a problem here I dont see??


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## muddstopper (Apr 26, 2015)

a couple of more pics of scrounging scores.
First is a set of log bunks made of 4x4x1/4 tube. I plan on using part of the bunks for the knuckleboom as the root and dipper booms. I will use the rest of it for building the outriggers. Normally i would think this material to be a little light for use loading logs, but I am planning on loading firewood, not saw logs. 

The other thing is actually a forklift mast. I will be using it to build the slide box frame to hold my adjustable 12way blades. 

The trailer is one I build several years ago and is what I plan on mounting the processor onto. It is made of 4x4 channel and is double framed, 18ft bed, with two 3500lb axles. rated for 7000lbs. I plan on weighing the entire rig once built and will be changing out the axles if needed.


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## muddstopper (Apr 26, 2015)

ValleyFirewood said:


> You mentioned wanting to be able to cut 27" across logs. What length is that bar?


Since Valley brought up bar lenght, I went and did some calculations. Normally a 27 in bar on a regular handheld chainsaw is great for sawing 27in dia wood, A hydraulic saw is fix mounted. Because of how the hyd saw is mounted it isnt going to quite reach thru a 27in dia. Since my current bar and chain will reach thru the largest majority of the wood i will be processing, I am going to go ahead and use it to continue the build and the testing. Once the buggs are worked out, and I have worn out the chain, I will probably change it out for one a little longer. My son just laughed when I told him and said, "Well at least now you will already have a bar and chain to make your wood splitter into the processor you started this build as". Hmm, he may be right, I do have a spare saw motor.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Apr 26, 2015)

It will take a long time to wear out a chain.

I but my processor in service in the summer of 2013 and I'm still on the same bar and 3 chains. I have around 600 hrs on it, but I'm not sure if the hour meter works right because my records show just under 1000 cords cut on it.


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## muddstopper (Apr 26, 2015)

Well changing out the B/C will be dealt with later, after the bugs are worked out and i know what I have. In any event, assuming everything goes as planned, I can buy a longer B/C and just use them when they are really needed. Sooner or later, I am betting my son will be wanting to fix the old splitter up and make a small processor out of it, so nothing will go to waste


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## KiwiBro (Apr 26, 2015)

With the forklift frames, do you have the height (assuming there will be the need) for more than one wedge arrangement?

Staying with the fork frame width or reducing it?

On rounds nearing the max diameter capacity of the processor, will the splits coming through the 12-way wedge need re-splitting? I mean, can you use or sell 15+" wide splits?

Here, anything that won't fit through a approximately 5 1/2" square hole is inviting complaints that it is too big.

There are a few wedge designs around that have concentric wedges between the main star ones, to keep the split wood widths down without needing to re-split it. If just the one 'ring' of wedges then the binding and load may not be too much. But if two or more then there's potential for heaps of binding and load.

If needing to re-split anything, then how are you going to accommodate pulling those from the out-feed (some could be quite heavy and it's generally not a back-friendly action).

If choosing to run at least one concentric wedge ring, then could an 8-way star be used instead?


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## muddstopper (Apr 26, 2015)

I just got the forklift mast. I will be cutting it apart and widening for the wedge. I also will be cutting it shorter Right now I only intend for one adjustable 12way wedge. there will be a round ring in the middle that will split into 4, 6in splits. The splits wont actually be 6in since there is some spread of the original first half split causing the wood to be spread by the time it actually contacts the center ring. Considering a 24in dia round, every split should be pretty close to even size. The wedge will be height adjustable so that anything less than 12 inches will pass thru the center ring for 4 splits. Smaller stuff, can pass directly under the center cross section and still be split 4 ways by using the bottom half of the ring. Raise the wedge all the way up and 6-8in dia stuff can just be split in halfs. Center the ring and cross section up with 24in or large dia round should give me 12 pretty even size splits that can be picked up with just one hand. Once I get beyond the 24in dia, then the outer splits will get larger proportionally. While the wedge will have a 4way cross section with a ring, attached to the ring will be an additional 4 wedges to half the outer splits. The way I currently separate my wood for resplitting is during stacking. I find it just takes to much time to reach for a oversize round and send it back thru the splitter. I find it better to just split and when I stack, I throw out anything to big, until I get a pretty good size pile of resplits, and do them all at one time. Another thing i have found is my wife will go for the big stuff for the nite fires. If i wait long enough, she will have most of the big stuff burnt and I dont have to resplit it. But thats for my stove, I know other folks can be picky.

I have studied the binding issues of multiple wedges and did some experimenting with my current 6way wedge on my current splitter. The wedges must be mounted with a larger opening in the rear than it does in the front of the wedge or binding becomes a big problem. Also, for any ring type wedges, the wedge can only be sharpened on one side (outer edge) to prevent the split from being pinched toward the inner fixed section. What I have done is watched and measured the width of the spilts as they pass thru my current 6way wedge to determine just how far a split will open up as it passes across the wedge. Planning wood to wedge contact and using proper angles for the wedges should allow the wood to pass thru without any major binding issues. Its not a issue of having plenty of power to push the splits thru the wedge, plenty of power and binding equals broke parts. Of course best laid plans of mice and men and Murphys law will apply here.

Right now I have plenty of cutting, grinding and machining to do before actually welding any thing. My first task is to build the knuckle boom and get it out of the shop. I was going to mount the boom on the processor back toward the operator. Not liking how that design would mean having to set the boom off to one side and making for blind spots if loading off the opposite side, I have decided to just mount the boom on the trailer at the tongue. It will mean beefing up the tongue some but it will allow me the same reach from each side of the trailer, plus if i get a wild hair, i can set the processor off the trailer and use the trailer as a forwarder, not that I think thats going to happen a lot as it would mean needing another hyd power supply and the processor aint going to be that easy to set off and on.


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## muddstopper (May 1, 2015)

Here is a drawing of my 12 way wedge


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## KiwiBro (May 1, 2015)

Thanks for the info.


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## muddstopper (May 9, 2015)

Figureing out the boom mounts for the base. Fooled around with autocad until it drove me crazy. Didnt have to drive me far. I finally gave up and just drew it out on the shop floor. Got my Valby r3 rotator yesterday .


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## KiwiBro (Jul 13, 2015)

Really like the staggered knives here:


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## ChoppyChoppy (Jul 13, 2015)

KiwiBro said:


> Really like the staggered knives here:




That would be a real SOB to unjam!


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## KiwiBro (Jul 13, 2015)

ValleyFirewood said:


> That would be a real SOB to unjam!


Especially if the 35t wasn't enough to free it.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Jul 13, 2015)

It won't be.

Could be 150 tons still will eventually get a piece that will jam it all up.. or break something.


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## KiwiBro (Jul 14, 2015)

ValleyFirewood said:


> It won't be.
> 
> Could be 150 tons still will eventually get a piece that will jam it all up.. or break something.


The question is not even if, or when, but has it produced enough to pay for the downtime should that be needed. I'd wager it would, even without giving much thought to the length of said downtime.


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## muddstopper (Jul 16, 2015)

That knife is very similar to what I have planned, except only 4 splits in the center instead of 6 and 8 around the perimeter. Staggering the knifes and keeping the wedges extra wide for split exit should keep jams to a minimum/ I'll have 50 tons pushing, so its come, bleed or blister if the wood jams.


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## Kevin in Ohio (Jul 16, 2015)

Keep those pics coming. Love to see builds.


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## muddstopper (Jul 17, 2015)

My build has been put on temporary hold. Got a torn rotator cup been dragging me down since March. They thought it was just tendonitis and had me on therapy for a while. When therapy didnt help, they finally did and MRI and found that it was torn. I have put off surgery until mid Sept and then 6weeks of more therapy. I might get back to it by Christmas.


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## Deleted member 135597 (Jul 17, 2015)

that sucks, good luck with everything


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## bigblue12v (Jul 17, 2015)

Really wish the vast majority of your pictures would load for me. Very interested in following this build! Best of luck with your rotator cup.


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## muddstopper (Jul 17, 2015)

I will add that I sort of gave up on using 4x4 tube for the knuckle boom. I bought a stick of 5x5x1/4 to build the boom. I was afraid the 4x4 would bow or bend if I tried to pick up to much weight on a 16ft long boom. I am also looking for a piece of 5in round or square stock to make the knuckle boom spindle. The current truck spindle is hollow and altho I think it will hold, I would feel better if the spindle was solid instead of hollow. I am considering just inserting a piece of solid shaft inside the current spindle and welding it in, top and bottom, just to stiffen it up. Everything is just setting on the shop floor waiting for me to get back to it.


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## bigblue12v (Jul 17, 2015)

It sounds like you're definitely trying to keep the beef factor up! Are you planning on using this for personal use only or will you be going into the wood business with this machine? Sounds pretty serious for personal use but then again I'm taking a pretty serious "overkill" approach to firewood myself for personal use lol


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## muddstopper (Jul 17, 2015)

My original ideal was to just build a processor for personal use. Things kind of got blown out of proper proportions. Going big might turn out to be a good thing. I have been at my current job for 39years. I am afraid that after the surgery my company might try to put me on disability. Since I work for the railroad and dont pay social security, its not really a matter of being disabled, but more in just how many of us old timers can the company get rid of and what can they use for an excuse. If they do decide to place me on sick benefits, I am not sure I will even fight them. In that senario, having a very capable processor might just put me in the firewood business. One thing for sure, if I aint railroading, I should have plenty of time to work on the processor.


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## Kevin in Ohio (Jul 17, 2015)

muddstopper said:


> My original ideal was to just build a processor for personal use. Things kind of got blown out of proper proportions. Going big might turn out to be a good thing. I have been at my current job for 39years. I am afraid that after the surgery my company might try to put me on disability. Since I work for the railroad and dont pay social security, its not really a matter of being disabled, but more in just how many of us old timers can the company get rid of and what can they use for an excuse. If they do decide to place me on sick benefits, I am not sure I will even fight them. In that senario, having a very capable processor might just put me in the firewood business. One thing for sure, if I aint railroading, I should have plenty of time to work on the processor.



I would be VERY careful and completely read through the fine print if they try the disability thing. Around here if you do that they will send out PI's to see if you are working at something else so they can stop benefits. Running a firewood processor would be a field day for them. Just saying be aware of that. 

When I was kid, Dad had a neighbor that cut with him. They split all wood down the middle as they used his truck and I helped. He was out on disability as he had to get a colostomy. He was just cutting to keep his house warm as times were tight. Ended up having to quit as he had an inspector come out and look at his hands to check for calluses. 

Does it feel like you have gravel in your shoulder and pops all the time when you move it? That what I have in both of mine and I've been told that's the sign of what you are describing. This getting old stuff is for the birds!


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## muddstopper (Jul 17, 2015)

Well I wrote a long post about how railroad retirement and disability benefits work, but then decided to just delete as it adds nothing to building a firewood processor. Suffice to say if I do go on disability, it will be the railroad doctors doing it, not me. I could care less if I retire or keep working. I prefer to keep working for 3 more years and then taking regular retirement.


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## muddstopper (Jul 17, 2015)

Kevin in Ohio said:


> Does it feel like you have gravel in your shoulder and pops all the time when you move it? That what I have in both of mine and I've been told that's the sign of what you are describing. This getting old stuff is for the birds!


No gravel or popping. Just constant pain. cant lift any weight, or lift my arms over my head. Have a hard time sleeping because I cant get in a position where my arms dont hurt. I suspect ( in my best stayed at a Holiday Inn Last nite voice), that what may be bothering you could be bursistis. this is where sac's of fluid build up in between the tendons and bones to provide extra lubrication for the Joints. Could be the sac's have burst and are not providing proper lubrication. You might consider Steroid shots. I'll write the prescription and send it right up to you.


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## KiwiBro (Jul 17, 2015)

Best of luck with the op and recovery.


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## muddstopper (Jul 17, 2015)

I appreciate the Good Lucks and get wells. Its amazing in a way, I mention having surgery on this site and get all kinds of well wishs. I tell folks here at home and they dont wish me well, all they say is how long you going to be out of work. I guess the whole community is depending on me for their checks.


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## Kevin in Ohio (Jul 17, 2015)

muddstopper said:


> Well I wrote a long post about how railroad retirement and disability benefits work, but then decided to just delete as it adds nothing to building a firewood processor. Suffice to say if I do go on disability, it will be the railroad doctors doing it, not me. I could care less if I retire or keep working. I prefer to keep working for 3 more years and then taking regular retirement.



I was just referring to them giving you full disability to get you out, then cancelling benefits as you are still doing work around your home.

Really interested in seeing what you come up with on your processor. We get very little straight stuff and lots of larger diameter so it's just not in my future wish list because for my application, it would be limited. Love to watch them though. That Cord King just makes me say WOW.



Didn't mean to derail your thread and sorry about that. Healing now too so I know how frustrating it is not to keep a project going.


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## bigblue12v (Jul 17, 2015)

Kevin that's how my wood ends up, either big trunk pieces or twisty tops. Very little that would work well in a processor. So I'm planning a bucking trailer to load logs onto straight off my truck parked next to it, buck them, let pieces roll down to splitter side area, split then throw on pile. Someone around this forum has a trailer he built like that. One day maybe adding a conveyor. Possibly add splitter to trailer. Not particularly a processor just thinking of processor type streamlining that can handle anything I get regardless of diameter or uniformity. But I'm not trying to hijack muddstoppers awesome thread. 
Muddstopper you have our support in everything, I'm 28 years old and 4 years ago I finished up 6 months of chemotherapy ending in remission of Hodgkin's lymphoma (lung cancer). Had gobs of support. It all helps!


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## bigblue12v (Jul 17, 2015)

Kevin that cord king is one bad unit! I could watch that all day! Very efficient!


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## Kevin in Ohio (Jul 17, 2015)

bigblue12v said:


> Kevin that cord king is one bad unit! I could watch that all day! Very efficient!



The one thing I dislike about the mutiwedge design is how much fines and slivers they create. Totally understand commercial guys doing it for speed though. Be nice to sell that stuff for campgrounds and bundles if you were selling. I made a 4 way for mine but use it way less than I thought I would. I guess I'm willing to sacrifice some speed for more useful product. Got a boiler and years ahead so plenty of drying time. I, like you rarely get consistant straight grained stuff as most of the videos show. Flat out jealous of you guys that deal with that kind of wood. That is if it's hardwood.

Hope you get straightened out Muddstopper and wishing the best for you.


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## KiwiBro (Jul 17, 2015)

Some of the logs in that video, namely the last few, could have been milled, surely? Or are they low value lumber in a high value lumber area, such that there is more value as firewood? I mean, other than a pretty cool demo-video purpose, would they really be used for firewood in the real world?

Slightly OT, sorry, but I was just looking at 20Ha of mature pine forest land, with some good subdivision and residential building potential (great sea views one side and rural views the other). The trees have never been managed and a large %, if not all, not worth milling. I wonder how well they'd go through something like that blockbuster or CRD Metalworks' rapido loco model.

Also, those larger logs in the video, and ones that didn't centralise before the ram was engaged (a big drop drown to the cradle/chute), are producing splits too big to be merchantable here and would require re-splitting, defeating the purpose of spending megabucks on such a processor to begin with I would have thought. Unless there's some sort of two-stage separator that first separates the debris and then the acceptable sized firewood before dropping the re-splits to another station?

I wonder if they could stagger a second ring of knives to help reduce the number of re-splits needed? It would create a fair bit of extra debris though. On that note, I did see someone had hydraulically adjustable concentric knives. I thought it might have been these guys:
http://www.pezzolato.it , who do some very interesting splitters and processors. If you go to that site, look up the vertical "X" knife and the indexed feed conveyor combo. It looks interesting.


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## muddstopper (Jul 18, 2015)

Multi wedges do produce a lot of "small" pieces and splinters. For my use, it isnt a really big problem. I throw them in a bucket and burn them in my shop stove. I'll put a few in a 5 gal bucket and use them to start a fire in the house. I keep a pile by the fire pit. But thats just the junk off about 4 cords worth of wood. I dont know what I will do with the junk if I start processing a 100 cord a year. Bag it and sell it for kindling I guess. 

Like others have said, some of that wood they are running thru the CRD machine would probably make lumber. Thats is sort of a catch 22 situation tho. You take down one or two trees from around a persons home. The butt will make logs, but the rest is just firewood. Do you take the one or two logs to a lumber mill, or do you just process it into firewood. Taking to a lumber mill is going to mean a extra trip to remove the wood, probably make more money just turning it into fire wood. I plan on building a bandsaw mill in the future. If I get a log thats worth milling, I can always just set it to the side and mill it later. 

Another thing I have noticed is how straight the wood is that manufacturers use to demo their machines. Really, who gets firewood wood like that. If a firewood size tree is cut, its usually twisted, knotty and crooked. Lumber trees are straight and smooth.


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## woodenboater (Jul 18, 2015)

KiwiBro said:


> Really like the staggered knives here:



WANT !


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## KiwiBro (Jul 20, 2015)

found the one I was thinking of:


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## ChoppyChoppy (Jul 20, 2015)

The price tag is also "wow". I could buy 3 of my processors for what the Cord King goes for.



Kevin in Ohio said:


> h. That Cord King just makes me say WOW.


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## muddstopper (Aug 22, 2015)

Felt like fooling with the processor a little bit today and thought I would post a pic of the splitter cyl mockup. Nothing has been welded and the cyl base will have to be moved back about 30inches from where it is setting in the pic. I fumbled around and knocked everything off the hbeam onto my foot and decided a one arm man aint got no business trying to move anything that heavy and just quit again for now. Might tack weld the pusher plate together just because its ready to weld. Pusher plate is 20in tall and 27in wide. It will have more bracking between the cyl mounts and the edge of the plate. Everything is 1in thick mild steel. Its heavy enough now to over balance the 18ft trailer its sitting on. Of course the hbeam will be shorthened and slid upon the trailer once finished. I just have it hanging off the back to make it easier to work on.


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## bigblue12v (Aug 22, 2015)

Is that H beam gonna be big enough? What sizes are those cylinders? Looking good! 

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## muddstopper (Aug 23, 2015)

Cyl are 4.5 in x30in with 2.5in rods. Hbeam is 8x8. It will be plated on top with an extra 1/2in to keep the flange from rolling up. I also intend to box the web on both side. It will look like "III". I believe making the web a box will help deflection and twisting more than just welding the extra plating to the web. Cyl's should put out a true 55tons of splitting force at 3500psi, but I plan on trying it out a 47tons and 3000psi just to see how it does. At 60gpm it should cycle at about 7sec.


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## Kevin in Ohio (Aug 23, 2015)

Yeah, it would be a good idea to start with a lower force to see how it does. that is a lot of force being multiplied being that high over the beam. I used a 6 X 8 box beam for mine(1/2" thick walls) and added to 1/2" plates on both sides so now it is a 7 x 8. I'm just running a single 5 inch cylinder and centerline of rod is 5 inches above the beam. Guy who sold me parts said for a 6 inch, they weld a 1" plate to the top. I've found that a long slide helps a lot with wear issues and spreading the load. 16 inches works well for me. Very interested in seeing this bad boy come to life.


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## muddstopper (Aug 23, 2015)

I dont remember the length of my slide, 16-18inches with 14, 5/8 bolts to hold it together. My Hbeam has 1/2in flanges and web. Adding a 1/2in plate to top will make it 1 in thick. Adding two 1/2in plate to box the web will make it 1 1/2 thick. I know from my 6way 5in bore splitter, 6x6 beam I topped it with 1/2 and then added a extra 3/4 to each side, but i didnt extend it all the way to the back edge of the beam. The flange has held up very well, but I have noticed a slight bow just behind where my 3/4 plating ends. Splitting 30-40 in dia rounds 6ways at a pass puts a lot of stress on any beam. With the processor, I plan on a 12way wedge and I doubt my beam by itself will hold up to the stress. I am hoping that when I mount my wedge box I can add enough support by extending framing from the box wedge back to the rest of the processor and provide the extra support I need.


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## muddstopper (Sep 17, 2015)

well, had shoulder surgery at 8:30 this morning. typeing with left hans so no making jokes about spelling or grammar.
its 6:50pm and stll no feeling in right arm. thing is just a dead weight from the nerve blockers. probaby wake in mddle of nite in pain. therapy wont start until middle of nexy week. I figure a couple wksbefore i can head back to the shop. wont be able lift much, but i traded a scratch start tig rig to a guy in welding school to be my extra hands. hes been workinng at a fab shop welding truck beds and trailers so he can weld, i aint figured out why he back in welding school unless its to get his certifications. Ill be out of work for about 6 wks. if i can get back in the shop in 2 wks, that will give me 4 wks to piddle with this build. i might have some more pics to show in a few days.
oh and since i aint got nothing better to do, ill be stalking and spending to much time here


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## KiwiBro (Sep 17, 2015)

Good luck with the rehab.


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## Erik B (Sep 17, 2015)

Don't overdo it. Give it time to heal. Your work isn't going to go away, it will be there when you are feeling much better.


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## muddstopper (Sep 18, 2015)

Well here it is 1am and I'm wide awake. As daddy used to say its time to get up and I aint even got into bed yet. One good thing is I am getting some movement back in my arm. Using two hands to type now. I guess I'm awake because I have napped most of the day. Momma running for me and adjusting the recliner for me. Those recliners have the lever for reclining on the right hand side and it pains me to say, ( and actually to do) to try to pull that lever. I still aint figured out where that recliner came from, when I left the house yesterday morning, I didnt own one and when I got back from the doctor, I still didnt own one. Sometime while I was napping it just magicly appeared. Got heated seat and vibrating massager. I might just have found my next favorite chair. LOL
Well this aint got nothing to do with my processor build, but I'm bored and sore, wide awake and everybody else is in the bed, so this is it.


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## muddstopper (Sep 19, 2015)

Yesterday the recliner won. While trying to put it in the recline position, I managed to flip it over backwards. Wife screams, son comes running, and daughterinlaw just stood there laughing. I didnt get hurt and couldnt stop laughing myself. Chair did sort of fall off, (pun intended), my favorite list. We are sending it back to the store and are going to look for something else to replace it with. Maybe an otterman or a recliner that isnt also a rocker chair.


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## Erik B (Sep 19, 2015)

muddstopper said:


> Yesterday the recliner won. While trying to put it in the recline position, I managed to flip it over backwards. Wife screams, son comes running, and daughterinlaw just stood there laughing. I didnt get hurt and couldnt stop laughing myself. Chair did sort of fall off, (pun intended), my favorite list. We are sending it back to the store and are going to look for something else to replace it with. Maybe an otterman or a recliner that isnt also a rocker chair.


You must have been wearing your PPE


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## muddstopper (Sep 19, 2015)

PPE= PJ'S


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## Erik B (Sep 19, 2015)

muddstopper said:


> PPE= PJ'S


At least you didn't get hurt. Don't they say laughter is the best medicine? With antics like that continuing, you should be back to normal in no time. Nice to have someone to laugh with you.


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## muddstopper (Sep 19, 2015)

Went to 40year highschool reunion tonite. No less than 4 different people came up to me and slapped me on the shoulder. Thought I was going to have to hang a sign on my back saying dont touch. I made it a point to hug all the women, I figured if those old men could slap me on the shoulder, i could give their wifes a squeeze. Wasnt no sign saying not to. LOL


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## muddstopper (Sep 24, 2015)

Got staples pulled out of shoulder yesterday. Arm has been doing pretty good I thought. Doctor asked how arm was doing and i said feels great and started raiseing and lowering my arm. Doctor shouts, stop, you cant do that. He takes hold of my arm and wiggles it around a little bit and then preceeded to chew my azs out. It seems just because arm is feeling better, that I am still not supposed to be using it. Doc dont even wants me to be typing on the puter. Guess all my thoughts of drifting down to the shop and piddleing around have been again put on hold, for at least 2 more weeks when they start therapy. As tempted as I am to wander on down to the shop, I am not going to do it. I aint giving up the computer, I feel that might be extreme, and besides, If I cant type, what about using the remote for the TV. dang, should have asked about that I guess. We did get rid of the recliner, we borrowed one from my brother that didnt rock. I dont like it either so I have went back to setting in "MY" chair. You can see the chair in my avatar. That dog is grown now and he still sits in my lap just like in the pic. I go to sleep and he will lay there all nite. 

I guess everybody can tell, I am getting a little bored with my rambleing, but I have never in my life just sat around doing nothing when I got so much that needs done.


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## DanTheCanadian (Sep 26, 2015)

Oh ya buddy i can feel your pain. Im currently stuck at home with a shiny steel plate and half a hardware store in my ankle. 

Lucky i cheated and stopped taking my pain killers so i can drive and have been hauling with my truck and trailer.

Heres hoping you recover quickly!


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## ChoppyChoppy (Sep 26, 2015)

I just love how Doc's say "bed rest, don't lift this, don't do that". That's all nice and good until the bills keep coming in and the paychecks aren't!


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## DanTheCanadian (Sep 26, 2015)

You know it! It has slowed me down but it can't stop me. Hope the OP is of similar attitude.


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## muddstopper (Sep 26, 2015)

DanTheCanadian said:


> Oh ya buddy i can feel your pain. Im currently stuck at home with a shiny steel plate and half a hardware store in my ankle.
> 
> Lucky i cheated and stopped taking my pain killers so i can drive and have been hauling with my truck and trailer.
> 
> Heres hoping you recover quickly!


So sorry to hear about the ankle. I hear you about the pin killers, all those thing done was make me dizzy when I stood up and stopped up my crap hole. I took them for the first couple of days because "Every One" said the third day after surgery would be just terrible. No so, I was in less pain than I was before the surgery and to me that was an improvement. The doctor is concerned that I will pull the tendons loose before they have time to heal. The way the surgery was explained to me was that to reattach the muscle he had to drill my shoulder bone and install little meat hooks and then pull the muscle up and hang it off those hooks. He was more technical than that, but that is the way I took it. Anyways, any strain can tear those muscles loose and I would have to have the surgery redone. He wont even let me start therapy for two more weeks, which I thought was unusual since about every body I know that has had any kind of surgery they usually have them going right to therapy. So I am taking him serious about not using my arm and certainly not going to lift anything.

Edited to add, I have a buddy that had his knee replaced this year. Being mister tuff guy he had to prove he was a Real man. Well mister tuff guy is going to have to have his knee operated on again. He can peck on his knee and it sounds like hitting a couple of tin cans together. All that "I'm tuff and can walk and work" had torn everything loose inside there. Just saying, I know we all got to eat, but trying to keep working like nothing ever happened can lead to being out of work even longer than it would have if he had just taken a few more weeks to heal properly.


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## DanTheCanadian (Sep 28, 2015)

Oh not saying you should push yourself or that anyone should for that matter. I wasnt trying to judge and if i came across that way im sorry. Ive already started my physical therapy and it has been a month since my surgery. I reached the stage in which i have mobility, if limited, and ive jumped back into working. 

Im only hoping you recover quickly with little pain and can get up and at it.


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## muddstopper (Sep 28, 2015)

I wasnt commenting to anyone really, I just know what my buddy is gong thru because he thought he was smarter than the doc. He's paying for it now and I thought some folks need to know that just because you think you can, you think you can, you really probably shouldnt.
Docs says I'm going back to work Oct 29th. I am about ready to fight him on that one. Keep me out for 4 more weeks and than turn me loose, I still have 4 wks of vacation I havent taken this year, I figure that should be about Jan before I have to actually go back to work. What you think, I think my plan is better than his.


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## muddstopper (Oct 7, 2015)

Just got back from the doc. Arm healing good. Said i was farther along than is usual for this type of injury. Get to start therapy tomorrow. Doc still says to not lift nothing over 5lbs. They are telling me 5-6 weeks of therapy before i can go back to work. I aint argueing with them. In fact trying to get them to stretch it out a couple of more weeks. I still have 4weeks of vacation time built and if they will stretch therapy out a little bit, I wont have to go back to work until Jan. Might get some things done on processor in the mean time. I got a lot of plate I need to cut on the track torch. I cant lift it with one hand, so just waiting for the right help. Once plates are cut, I can assemble my splitter beam and cyl's. I also have the plates already cut for the box wedge, but it takes 2 hands to pick up each plate, so again got to wait on help to come over. Finally got control valve for splitter figured out. The valve was designed to be used for a hydraulic travel motor. This valve can be configured for multiple uses, closed center, open center, regen, power beyond, motor spool, cyl spool, and I dont know what else. Took quite a few phone calls to finally figure out that it did have a cyl spool, even tho it controlled a hyd motor, and that it could work as open center as well as closed center, just depending on how it is plumbed. It also will flow the 60gpm I need for the splitter cylinders. Big relief for me as this valve probably cost $2-3 grand if I had to buy one new. 
It has a main relief and a relief for both work ports. It is also lever actuated as well as air operated. 
Pic shows air cyl, and one of the reliefs for the work ports. I plan on using a air foot pedal to shift the valve for the splitter. Valve also has power beyond, I am still trying to figure out how to use the power beyond to provide the 30gpm I need for my saw circuit. Somehow I will need to dump 30gpm to tank and still have 30gpm for the saw. I need some ideal on how to do this from the hyd genius's on this site. I am thinking some sort of rotary flow control, if I can find one big enough to handle the flow. I am thinking rotary because this should allow me to adjust flow enough to play around with saw speed without overheating the oil. Not sure how this will work.


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## muddstopper (Oct 7, 2015)

Been setting here thinking, dangerous I know, but nothing else to do. Anyways. The thought occurred to me that might be able to plumb the hydraulics up where i dont need a flow control, so i will throw this out there for consideration. My thoughts for a hydraulic pump was originally to buy a stacked pump with a 60gpm/30gpm/15gpm sections. Since I havent purchased the hydraulic pumps yet, i am thinkng that i should just buy a stacked pump with 2-30gpm sections and combine the flows to run the splitter. Heres what I think would work, If I use 2-30gal pumps and run one pump thru the saw valve first, and that valve has power beyond, I should be able to combine flows after the saw valve. This would mean the saw would run at full power when needed and when not sawing, the splitter would have full flow. I know this means the splitter would run slower while sawing, but the splitter should be at half speed while saw is running. Of course while advnceing a log, for sawing, the splitte would run at full speed and by the time I start sawing, the cyl would be in retract mode and would still retract at a pretty fast speed anyways. Not sure how well this ideal will work out, might have to think a little more.


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## muddstopper (Oct 31, 2015)

Decided to start planning on how to plumb this beast. Not being a hydraulic expert, this part is probably going to be my biggest challenge to get right. I started making a list of all the functions I intend to do with this machine. Next it to figure out how to make it all work together. Once I started adding up the different functions, I was sort of taken back by just how many functions it takes just to split firewood. I have added up 16 different operations and all of those operations, except for the saw motor, will be able to work in two directions for a total of 31 different functions. Here is a list of everything I am trying to do. 

Processor Circuits/Functions

Current plans are for 3 sperate pumps I am labeling these pumps as P1,P2, and P3. If i decide to add another pump, it will be considered P4.

Saw motor 33gpm flow P2 pump
Splitter cyl 42gpm flow P1 pump

P1 and P2 pumps will combine to provide 75gpm for splitting cylinders
14gpm P3 pump
This pump will provide flow for all other circuits
Saw cyl
log clamp cyl
Log feed conveyor motor
wedge lift cyl 
Out feed conveyor motor
Live deck motor
Deck lift cyl
Knuckle Boom Circuits/Functions
Since all previous list functions will not be required while operating Knuckle boom, the P3 pump will be used to supply power
Right stabilizer cyl
Left stabilizer cyl 
Mast rotation Motor 
Root boom cyl
Dipper boom cyl 
Grapple rotator motor (Valby R3)
Grapple clamp cyl

I have on hand the large valve for the splitting circuit. I also have two sets of stacked valves, one with 10 spools and the other with 6 spools. All these valves do have power beyond. I had planned on using a solenoid valve for the saw motor, but because the valve I have isnt PB and cant be made that way, I will have to find a manual valve that will flow at least 30gpm and has PB. While this valve will only need to drive the motor in one direction, I plan on using that flow to supply additional flow to the splitter. This would give the splitting cyl approx 75 gpm of total flow. This will probably be way to fast of a cycle time and if so, I will just return P2 flows back to tank and wish I had just went ahead and used the solenoid valve I already have. I also have an ideal for using the knuckle boom to load large dia wood that wont fit thru the processor onto my current splitter. If I do that, i can just use the saw circuit to power the seperate wood splitter. Time will tell, note to Bill, get processor working and then worry about add on's.

Still got a lot of planning to do. I am going to need a bunch of flow controls, sequence valves, unloading valves, brake valves, pressure reducing valves and probably some other things I havent thought of yet. I will just have to draw out each circuit adding fluid controls where they are needed and then add them all up when i get done. Cutting and welding is the easy part.


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## muddstopper (Oct 31, 2015)

There is the possibility that I might make the outfeed conveyor to fold up for transport as well as swing side to side. For fold up, Scropion style, I think it would take two extra cylinders. One to raise the conveyor and the other to make it fold. I am thinking one control valve and using sequence valves so that the conveyor folds first and then raises and then lowers before it unfolds. Have to think about this, it might just be easier to use to seperate CV's. I guess it just depends on how may extra spools I have in my stacked valves. One cyl, one CV,extra if I decide to add swing

Also, Not entirely sure I will use or need a fold up log deck for log storage, I should have about 4 ft of live deck and the knuckle boom will be mounted to the machine, so???, is the extra length of the live deck worth the trouble. 
Advanage of a longer deck is you can load a bunch of logs for processing so you dont have to stop and reload logs as often.
Disadvantage, Cost more to build, and in the folded position it would be upright making machine height higher . Would also take up space needed for knuckle boom storage during transport. 
I think the best way to figure out what valves I need is to just do them one function at a time. Since the saw and splitting circuit will use a combination of two differnt pumps, I will start there. After I write this out, I will try and draw up the schematics using proper symbols. ( drawing the schematics might take me a while)

Starting with the saw, P2 pump makes 33gpm. flow will go to valve with relief between valve and pump. (Relief Internal in CV). SCV activated fluid goes from SCV to Motor and then to Tank. Valve in center postion, flow will go to PB and continue to checkvalve (ckv) before combining with P1 pump flow. CKV is to prevent P1 pump flow from running backwards to saw motor. 
Considering also adding a unloading valve with check valve bypass in the event P1 pressure rises above P2 pump relief setting, which would cause P2 pump to dump over relief instead of going thru splitter valve. A unloading valve would allow oil to flow back to tank unrestricted instead of flowing thru relief valve. This would also make the P2 pump act as a high/low pump. Making the splitter act like it had a two stage pump instead of 2 seperate pumps. 
P1 pump flow combines with P2 flow at tee and then to the in port of Splitter control valve with internal relief. Splitter control Valve In center position flows to tank. When activated it would extend or retract twin splitting cylinders. The twin cylinders are connected together in parallel. 
I think this completes the splitter and saw circuits. All other circuits will be using the 14gpm P3 pump.

To complete the sawing of a log, I need to address the conveyor to advance the log as well as the clamping and lowering of the saw bar. Since this operation would be thru stacked valves, It should be as simple as activating the corresponding control lever and push and pull. Not so fast!! While this will work just find for the conveyor. I am going to be dealing with different flow requirements as well as pressure requirements for the log clamp and saw cyl. Saw cyl needs to raise and lower in a controlled manner and pressures also need to be pretty low. Recommended down force on saw cyl is less that 100psi pressure at mid saw bar. Log clamp pressure can be system pressure. I am thinking this is going to require more valves to make it work. My Ideal is to use a sequence valve off the log clamp cyl to activate the saw cyl. This way the clamp would see a set pressure to hold log in place, before the saw cyl moves. Still ,I dont think this will work because the saw cyl would also see full flow and pressure making it to fast and apply to much force. I can use a couple of flow controls to meter in and meter out flow to control speed, but then I still have to much pressure. To control pressure what about using a pressure reducing valve before the flow control valves. Thats a lot of plumbing for one cyl. Got to be a better way. 

Advantage of using seperate flow control, sequence valve and pressure reducing valve. It allows wide range of adjustments to control both speed and force.
Disadvantage, Lots of valves and hoses to buy $$$, and very cluttered once installed. will have to see if possible to buy a all in one valve to perform all these functions. All in one valve will probably be cheaper than buying several separate valves. 

Next operation is where I might have to add an additional pump (P4) and that is the out feed conveyor. Conveyor needs to run continuous while sawing and splitting. If I pull fluid off the same pump as I am using to run the other conveyor as well as the log clamp and saw cyl, the outfeed conveyour will see start and stops. The outfeed conveyor and other splitting functions wont be running if I am running the knuckle boom. I have a few choices to make the out feed run all the time, I can add a divider valve before the clamp, sawbar and log feed and just dedicate a set amount of oil for that conveyor. I can add another small pump or I can pull some fluid off the splitter circuit as that valve is also PB. Not sure how I would get flows down to 4-5gpm from a 75gpm circuit, but I bet it would be costly. 
Not a lot to discuss about the knuckle boom, except for adding a brake valve to the mast swing motor. While I could probably get by without the brake valve, I dont want the mast to be floating around uncontrolled if the machine isnt perfectly level. 

Any thoughts??


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## fordf150 (Oct 31, 2015)

Conveyor should only need about 1400 psi @ 6gpm. Use a priority valve to control the flow. 

My processor has the saw, clamp, conveyor on one pump. Circuit is as follows....

Pump to a pressure control valve (pressure set to 1400psi) then to a priority valve where the conveyor gets dedicated 7gpm and remainder of flow goes to the the clamp/saw. Conveyor then has a flow control to regulate speed. The excess flow from the priority valve goes a 2 spool valve. One has a needle valve to control flow so that the saw control can be pulled instead of feathered. Cylinders for the saw and clamp at 1 1/2". 1400psi works good and there is roughly 1gpm flow for the 2 cylinders. Need to up that just a bit.... I would like to install a new priority valve that is 2gpm to the clamp/saw...Remainder to the conveyor


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## muddstopper (Oct 31, 2015)

I'll admit, I havent even looked at the math to figure out the flows needed for the saw and clamp cylinders. Since I planned on using the same pump that controls my knuckle boom, I figured I would need to reduce flow to the saw and clamps cylinders anyways. The 6gpm for the conveyor is close to what I was guessing at for my conveyor, again I havent done the math, I have the flow I have and it should be more than enough to supply this circuit. Again, just sort of took for granted I would have to do a little flow regulating. 

The way I plan on connecting the valves for the Out feed conveyor, In feed conveyor, saw cyl and clamp cyl, was to use the power beyond off the loader valve bank. I cant seeing the loader working at the same time as everything else. If i put a diverter valve after the loader valvee and before the other stack valve, I should be able to run the out feed conveyor continuous without any problems. Now, one thing about my two sets of stack valves is that each spool has its own reliefs. As long as the main relief is set for system pressure, I should be able to adjust pressures for each operation independant of what the other spools are set to. I still think I will have to use a flow control and maybe also a pressure reducing valve for the saw bar cyl. Not sure the reliefs on the control valve will go down low enough or be accurate enough at those low pressures. 

My saw simply has to be on a separate valve than all the other functions. Oil flow is just to great for any of the stack valves I already have. I do plan on mounting the saw valve right next to the stack valve and seeing if I cant make some sort of joystick so that I can operate the saw clamp and bar cylinder, as well as the saw motor with just one lever. splitting valve is air operated as well as lever operated, I'll use a air foot pedal to control that valve. 

Good information to know that 2gpm for bar and clamp cyl and 1400psi for conveyors, that gives me a real good starting point for fine tuning my system. I can divide my 14gpm pump flow in half and still have more than enough for everything to work off of.


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## fordf150 (Oct 31, 2015)

Cylinders sizes, travel, and mounting point will all effect your pressure and flow. No clue what my motor is for the conveyor. I bought the cheapest new motor I could find that the math worked out on for 5-6gpm flow. Got lucky and the motor has plenty of torque/room for what I'm doing. 

Cylinders for the clamp and saw are 1 1/2" with 1" rods. 14" travel. Heim joint ends IIRC they were only $69 each


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## muddstopper (Oct 31, 2015)

I have the motors for the conveyors laying on a shelf. I will have to look up the numbers before I know what I got. One motor is off my old hydroseeder agitation shaft. I think the pump was 4gpm with pressure around 1100psi. That motor is a stator rotor I bought off ebay several years ago. The other motor for the other conveyor I can look actual schematics up once I get back on the job. Pretty sure its low flow high torque motor. Might be a tad bigger than the stator rotor motor off the hydroseeder. Pretty sure either motor will have enough power to run the conveyors. I also have gear boxes for both conveyors as they where ran off of electric motors. I havent checked the ratios of the gear boxes,. Conveyors are belted and conveyor rollers are about 12" dia so every turn is going to be about 3ft of travel.

Getting back to the saw and clamp cyl, I will have a air compressor to provide air for my splitter valve. I could use an air cyl to move the sawbar. I dont want to open that can of worms unless staying with hydraulics get to costly.


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## muddstopper (Nov 1, 2015)

Looked up the specs for the Valby rotator. max 3000psi. I had not planned on that much pressure, Probably start at around 2000psi and work from there. This setting is important because fluid for the second valve bank will be passing thru KB valves first. Pressure setting there will dictate available pressure down stream for next set of valves. Each spool in both sets of stacked valves have individual reliefs, but any relief that is set over the relief settings for the first valve set will cause fluid to pass thru the main relief for that valve. Basicly, each spool of the second valve set will be protected by three different reliefs, Main relief of first set of valves, Main relief of second set of valves and individual relief for each spool. A little redundant, but the reliefs are already there .


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## muddstopper (Nov 3, 2015)

Thought I might get a few more responses about the hydraulic circuits. I think I begrudgingly have figured out how to make the clamp cyl and saw bar cyl work. Not only do I plan on using two valves, I think I will be best off using two completely different methods. My processor will have a on board air compressor. I need it to use the air shift on the large splitter control valve. Since the saw bar needs to move slowly and with little force. I think air will be the simplest, easiest method to control speed and force. With a meter in and meter out flow arrangement. I should be able to control the speed of the saw cyl and also vary the speed between the different directions, up/down. Air pressure regulators are very cheap, much cheaper than trying to buy hydraulic valves. Air cylinder should be cheaper than hydraulic cyls as well, altho I havent checked the prices yet.


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## fordf150 (Nov 3, 2015)

I doubt air will work. On small wood(under 10") I run my saw wide open... 2gpm 1400psi. 

I would look at sequence valves for the hydraulics to control the clamp and saw with one valve


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## muddstopper (Nov 4, 2015)

Why do you think air wont work. I also have to ask what are you calling pressure control valves. There are pressure reducing valves and there are pressure relief valves. Most hydraulic operation usually do have some sort of relief to prevent pressure buildup. Relief valves are normally closed valves. No oil passes thru the valve. When pressure builds the relief opens and dumps oil. With a pressure reducing valve, the valve is normally opened with oil flowing straight thru the valve. As pressure builds the valve closes and lets fluid go to tank. Oil running over the relief will create heat as it is always under pressure. Oil dumping over a reducing valve is minimal flow and pressure and doesnt create as much heat.


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## fordf150 (Nov 4, 2015)

Volume, pressure just won't be great enough. To get enough pressure on the saw bar with only 125psi of air pressure your going to need a 3" (just randomly picked this number) cylinder and with the larger cylinder I think you will start seeing volume problems.

I'm purely guessing though because I have no experience with air cylinders and limited hydraulic experience.

Only time you really see air cylinders is in manufacturing. They are usually small diameter and fairly short stroked but are used because they are fast acting.


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## muddstopper (Nov 4, 2015)

I understand what you are saying about air cyls. They do have a tendency to slam one way or the other. That is where you need to use flow controls on both the in and out ends of a cyl. Using a flow controls with a check valve bypass will work the same way on air as it does on hydraulics. You are limiting the amount of air that can enter or leave the cyl. Similar to adjusting the flow regulator on your argon welding tanks. You can limit the amount of gas that passes thru it, a pressure regulator limits the amount of pressure that can pass thru. with air, it much cheaper to adjust the flow and pressure. Flow controls with check valve bypass, $15 or so, pressure regulator, $5 0r $6 bucks.

Pressure and force of the cyl is figured the same way as figureing hydraulic pressure. The amount of pressure times the area of the piston. My way of thinking is if I need to get my hydraulic pressure down to 100psi using a 2 in cyl to achieve 100lbs of down force at mid bar of the saw. I can get the same amount of force using a 2in air cyl and 100psi of air pressure. I am not sure how to compare fluid volumes to air volumes when it comes to figureing flow. A gal of oil has a volume of 231 cuin so to match fluid flows of 1gpm I need to have air flow of 231cuin min, and if pressures are the same, then both systems should perform the same. Air will compress, oil doesnt. I dont know what comparison to make with how the compression factor will influence the final results. With fluid on both ends of the cyl, I would think it takes a certain amount of pressure just to push the oil out of the opposite end you are applying fluid to. Fluid makes friction and friction makes heat. Air can create friction and heat, but that heat is exhausted to the atmosphere


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## fordf150 (Nov 4, 2015)

I have the cylinder mounted about 6" past the pivot point on my saw. 1 1/2" cylinder attached and it takes 12" of stroke to run the saw thru its travel. small softer wood. 12" poplar for example i open my flow control wide open. that has the potential to create 2472 lbs of force at the cylinder mounting point. 2 gpm to to flow .1 gallon and it is too slow at times. jsut giving you some real world figures to help calculate from.


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## muddstopper (Nov 4, 2015)

I think force measured at the middle of the bar only needs to be about 50-70lbs. How much of that 2742 lbs of force being transmitted to the mid bar would be determined by the distance between mid bar, hinge point of bar and attachment point of cyl. With out knowing all the numbers, it would be hard to determine how much actual force is being applied at the middle of the bar. Longer the bar, the less force. I have to wonder if you ever have problems with the bar mounting bolts as it would seem that you are applying much more force than is recommended. Have you actually checked pressure at the cyl to see how much actual pressure is being applied.While you might have 1400 psi of available pressure to the cyl., pressure is only built as resistance is raised. I cant question a system that is actually working, and probably wont understand how its is working without seeing it in action. 

Here is the type of air flow regulator I was referring to. http://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/80185846, You can see by the schematic printed on the side of the valve that it controls flow in one direction while letting air pass thru the opposite direction at full flow. Using two of these valves, one on each end of the air cyl, will allow you to control flow in each direction. Control the flow, control the speed. I need to do a little more searching, but I am almost 100% sure that they make a similar flow control valve that controls flow and pressure.


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## fordf150 (Nov 4, 2015)

pretty good video that shows how mine is set up. I have no clue what the actual pressure is. Never been curious enough to add a gauge and check it. I have done 60 cord of wood thru this processor and the bar still looks new with no burr on the rails and no problems with mounting bolts. I know when the chain gets dull and i am forcing the last few cuts to finish loading the truck that i am maxing out the pressure because the bar will stop moving and i have to lift out of the cut a hair and go again.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Nov 4, 2015)

My conveyor reliefs at around 700psi. Normal use the guage reads maybe 300psi. Don't set it too high, when it jams it will break!

Air is a bad idea, you will fight it when it gets cold. The 18-20 at the shop uses air for bar and splitter return and it's a pain vs my 15-20 which is all hydraulic.

Bar clamp and saw is easy. Just need a relief. Open valve to cut, clamp comes down, once it hits 500 psi it reliefs to the bar cylinder to cut.

My bar has 2 bolts and a large key. I did tear it all up last year, it has full pressure on the up swing and the bar got jammed ammer up in a log.


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## muddstopper (Nov 4, 2015)

Valley, I aint in Alaska. It dont get quite as cold down here as it does up there. A good air dryer will take care of the freeze up. Every piece of equipment we have at work uses some sort of air circuit. Before Manufacturers started putting air driers on the machines, we would fight them every winter. I cant remember the last time I had a air line freeze. 

I think you might be confusing relief valves with a sequence valves. The conveyor most likely is using a relief to prevent pressure build up. The clamp/bar is most likely using a sequence valve.


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## muddstopper (Nov 4, 2015)

If you can read my shakey drawing, here is the difference between a relief, sequence and pressure reducing vavle


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## muddstopper (Nov 5, 2015)

Valley, you wouldnt happen to have the schematics for the air controls for your 18-20 processor, would you. I would like to see how blockbuster made it work.


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## muddstopper (Nov 5, 2015)

Did a little figureing on air pressure and cyl size. A 1.5in bore cyl with 100psi will give me a push force of 177lbs. Since I only need about 60lbs of force at mid bar, it should just be a matter of figuring out mid bar lenght, pivot point, and cyl mount point, and then adjusting air pressure to get there.


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## muddstopper (Nov 13, 2015)

Well, went back to the doc Wednesday and he cleared me to go back to work. Been off for 8 weeks and not been able to do hardly anything to the processor. Go back to work Monday, I have 12 days left to work this year and then I take my vacation. Hopefully now that I can actually use my arm, I can get a few things done. Got a lot of plate to cut. Got my plasma torch finally mounted on my homemade track torch. Probably try and get some of the metal cut tomorrow. I have about 300inches of plating to cut out and then weld into the Hbeam. Even tho I wasnt physically able to get much done, I spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to make everything work. I still have to buy a few parts, which is the only advantage of going back to work, I should be able to free up funds to buy some of the stuff I was hesitating purchasing because I wasnt working. 

I did a little math while I was off on just how much I have spent on this project so far. I still dont have the engine or the hyd pumps I need. I did buy a few things I couldnt use, but got lucky and sold them all for a profit. taking that profit into account, I am into this processor for just over $2000. I will need to spend at least that much more, but its starting to look like I will be into this processor for less than what some folks have paid for some major brands of wood splitters.


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## muddstopper (Dec 10, 2015)

Finally got back to the processor build today. Made a little progress on the actual splitting parts. Got plate cut and spot welded on top flange. Notched the hbeam in the rear to accept the cyl base mounts. Dont look like much done, but with everything weighing tons and having to use a FEL and cherry pickers to get everything set up. I feel like its been a good day. I still have to cut out all the metal I plan on using to box the beam. Once I get the metal cut, its going to be a all day job just welding everything solid


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## Tiewire (Dec 10, 2015)

Glad to see you back at it!


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## muddstopper (Dec 11, 2015)

Another slow day. Had to clear some trees so the well pump guys can set their truck up over my well. We used to have 20gpm of water in that well and now its down to about 1 quart. We think it had a blow out somewhere down in the well as it has filled with mud. They are going to clean it out and see if the water comes back, if it dont, its punch the hole down until they find water. Right now its so full of mud, I only have about 30gal of storage. Have to be really careful until the well drillers get here. 

Did get around to laying out my wedge on my welding table. The wedge will be 30x30 inches with a 12 way split. My pusher block is 27in wide which I decided to mae as the maximum wood this machine would accept. The 30in wedge is to allow the wood a little room to spread as it passes thru the wedge. I think most of the wood I will split will be way less than the 27dia, so the 30in inside width of the wedge should be plenty of spread room. took a few pic to show design and give a feel of scale.


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## dave_dj1 (Dec 12, 2015)

Are you going to have all the knives on the same plane? If so, that would require tremendous force to bust open anything but straight grain ash. I would stagger them back a couple inches each so the force is spread out at different intervals. Or unless I missed how much pressure you are going to be pushing with.


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## c5rulz (Dec 12, 2015)

I am in awe of people who can just conceive let alone build a project like this. You da man.


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## muddstopper (Dec 12, 2015)

dave_dj1 said:


> Are you going to have all the knives on the same plane? If so, that would require tremendous force to bust open anything but straight grain ash. I would stagger them back a couple inches each so the force is spread out at different intervals. Or unless I missed how much pressure you are going to be pushing with.


Knifes will be staggered and the center circle will be expanded in the rear to allow the wood some room to spread. Sharpening the center wedge only on the outside edge will help lower the compression issues. I expect some problems with compression with the really bigger rounds, but the smaller, normal stuff should pass thru pretty easily. I'll have around 50tons of force to split with. The blades are all T1 steel, 3/4in thick. I think my biggest problems is to keep the wedge, as well as the base of the cylinders, intact. My first few rounds will not be wide open pressures until I find all the weak points. I have a few 20in dia white oak rounds to test with. In my area, second growth whiteoak, seems to be one of the hardest wood to split. Old growth seems to split pretty straight, but the second growth seems to have a denser grain thats all twisted. Cant explain it, but around here, only blackgum seems to be a harder wood to split, but I dont seem to see to much large dia blackgum. Typical hickory, red oaks and the like will just pop apart. Pissoak is another hard wood to split. Not sure of the proper name for that oak, swamp oak maybe?? My plans for a processor mounted knuckleboom wll allow me to use my current splitter for anything the processor wont split. I've split 40in dia knotty white oaks with it and anything it wont handle, dont need to be messed with in the first place.


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## muddstopper (Dec 12, 2015)

Came back in to take a break. Made a really big screw up cutting the wedges to proper length. I laid everything up on the table and marked the cuts, but didnt allow for the thickness of the metal in the center. I ended up cutting two of the wedges to short. I have to sit and think about how I want to fix this problem. I dont have any more blade material so it looks like I got to fill in a 3/4in gap in 3/4 plate. Not what I am looking forward to. Take a break, eat a sandwich and think some more.


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## dave_dj1 (Dec 12, 2015)

Nice work.


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## muddstopper (Dec 13, 2015)

After the sandwich break and a little nap, I went back to the shop and looked at it some more. Decided it wasn't as big a screw up as I first thought. The only part of the blade that has to be filled is where the stepback is for the opposite blade, about 2 1/2inches. I took a grinder and vee'd out both sides, clamp the blade to the welding table and started running beads. It took about 6 passes on each side using 1/8 7018 rods, but I got it filled. I had to keep flipping the blade over with each welding pass to keep warpage down, and managed to lay a straight edge on it after I finished the weld and you had to look hard to see any gaps between the straight edge and the plate, Good enough for who its for, which is me. A real handy tool when making multiple passes with the welder is one of those cheap harbor freight Needle Scalers. they pretty much remove all the slag and peen the metal at the same time. I think the peening helps a bunch with controlling the warpage as it helps remove some of the stress introduced by the weld. No picture of blade, I have several more to do and will take a pic once finished.


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## muddstopper (Dec 14, 2015)

Wedge coming together,


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## muddstopper (Oct 8, 2016)

Well after about a year of delays, and surgeries, I am finally getting back to this build. spent the last two days just cleaning up the shop. With three sons wanting to use the shop and a neighbor I am always doing little jobs for, my shop was a mess. I still cant go wide open all day, but I can manage a hour or two here and there. The heavy stuff still really slows me down. My plans are to finish building the wedge which will require a bunch of grinding. The bigger pieces I have already sharpened, so now its down to the center circle. There are 4-1/4 circles to the center wedge, If I can just sharpen one a day, I should have the wedge built by the end of next week. The pic of the circle in the wedge in the pic above was 8 pieces, I have since changed that to where there is only 4 circle pieces. Once the wedge is built, I still have to cut the plate to re-enforce my hbeam and then mount the wedge. I have to finish cutting up the forklift frame to mount the wedge in. Lots of cutting and welding to do. Cooler weather ahead, time to get back to work.


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## Deleted member 135597 (Oct 9, 2016)

Glad your feeling better. I've been following this thread and look forward to seeing the progress.


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## BGE541 (Oct 10, 2016)

Hope you feel better and look forward to seeing the outcome!


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## muddstopper (Oct 10, 2016)

spent most of the day in the shop. Got the 4 circle wedges sharpened. Took about 20 min per wedge. 

Then turned to welding up the wedge, 

I still have to build the box for the wedge and then I will add the other 4 wedges to make it a 12way. The long straight pieces are actually short pieces I had to weld together to make them 30in long. In the center there are 5 passes of 7018 on each side, 40 passes total. Flipped it over for each pass, but still had a little warpage. Legs worn out from all that standing, but a shot of shine and a good bath, watching The Ranch on nexflix. Feels good to finally be able to actually do a litte work.


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## dave_dj1 (Oct 11, 2016)

I'm glad to see your back at it as well. I can relate after having a heart attack two years ago. I finally feel like doing stuff and it took me two days as well to clean out my garage.
Hang in there. I picked up a new toy today, will do a build thread later but it has four wheels and is getting a bit of bling for the front of it


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## sam-tip (Oct 11, 2016)

Spent last two day cleaning my shop. Finally found the tool I was looking for.


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## muddstopper (Oct 12, 2016)

Spent the day salvaging metal from my junk forklift mast. Took a lot longer than I expected. The mast is 3/4 in thick channel. All the bracing and mounts where about 1 1/2 inch thick. Cutting those mounts off and grinding everything smooth was a major pain. Once the cutting and grinding was complete, I cut the hbeam to length and laid it back on the table, hope to finish putting the wedge together tomorrow. Heres a pic of the channel still in the bandsaw. 
and a pic of the forklift mast I cut it from
you can see all the junk I had to cut off before I could use it


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## muddstopper (Oct 13, 2016)

Well today, I was just lazy, didnt even go to the shop. To tell the truth, my leg wont hold up to all day standing on the concrete. Had my brother come over yesterday evening to help me turn the box for the wedge over so I could finish up the welding. Things are getting heavy fast. I welded a little and had to just quit. Thought I was going to have to get bro to help me to the house. Tomorrow is a new day, I should be able to finish up the wedge and set it aside while I re-enforce my hbeam. Brother had a great ideal, wish I had thought of it sooner. Old school buddy teaches welding at the local community college. He suggested calling him up and seeing if they need a welding project. They do things like that from time to time. Any ways going to see if he will come by and give a look see and if he agrees, I plan on turning some of this project over to the school. Young bucks eager to weld, just what I need.


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## Timbercreek (Oct 14, 2016)

granted im late to the party, but i wouldnt be afraid of the air cylinder to run the saw bar if you already have air.
granted your going to want a large storage tank, but air cylinders are fine, and are used for more then just manufacturing.
believe it or not, the debarking head on a sawmill debarker, is raised/ lowered by a 3" air cylinder. 2 reasons: biggest, is the give when the log has a knot, or bell, or knee, that keeps it from being round on the rollers. also speed, the thing moves rather quickly up or down.
so i would think, in a sawbuck application, air would be rather beneficial, FAST down to touch the log and start the cut, yet SLOWER to put a large amount of pressure on the teeth and bog the saw. it will put plenty of pressure downwards, but any lag from the line sizing will make this pressure build slowly.
I myself, prefer to stick to my guns and prove the naysayers wrong, versus let every little thing people say change my plans.
the criticism i find most helpful with these forums is the things you didnt see that someone else picks up on. and parts locating. very helpful with that.
looking forward to seeing your build progress. 
im trying my best NOT to build one, but like you, ive been saying for a long time that someone should put the log loader right on there.
only bad news i have for you is that a old cheap prentice or barko loader is worth way less then the time you will have into building one. 800 in materials, no grapple yet, 80 hours plus welding vs 2k on a working loader. bolt on and go. you have enough fab time on the rest of the processor.
love the wedge too. always like the circle wedges.


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## KiwiBro (Oct 14, 2016)

Looking great, Mr Mudd. Given the setback on the knives, I wouldn't be too worried about compression pressure/friction of the splits against the knives. I'm sure you've done the maths but just looking at the pictures, it looks like the first splits will splay out more than enough, and thus creating some clearance space/wriggle room, before hitting the subsequent knife edges.


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## Sandhill Crane (Oct 14, 2016)

sam-tip said:


> Spent last two day cleaning my shop. Finally found the tool I was looking for.


After two hours of looking, I'm off to buy another one. Two weeks later it is still on my mind and I'll spend ten minutes here and there looking even after I picked up a replacement. 
15" Crescent for changing the hitch ball. No where to be found. A year later it was sitting in the tool drawer on top of the one I bought to replace it. That was an odd moment. I'm sure there is a story too be told there, probably by my boys at my funeral. They swear not. Maybe my daughter... (or it could just be me and old age)


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## muddstopper (Oct 14, 2016)

timbercreek, I welcome your opinions, More the merrier.. I am not afraid of using air for the saw lift cyl. I have been working with some sort of air circuit on different types of equipment for years. I think Valley was the one that didnt think it is a good ideal, but He lives in Alaska so its easy to see his concerns with freeze ups. 

As for the barko loaders versus building my own. To me its more of a weight thing to factor in. Old logging equipment is heavy and to mount a old loader would involve a lot of redoing things so I dont know if you really save any time modifying a loader versus just building one. I have to admit, I have looked at a lot of those small forwarder type loaders and still havent ruled one out. Buying one without the engine and hydraulic systems would probably be a reasonable price and it would save a lot of work, but finding a used one around here, they are just unheard of. I have already bought the rotator and have the metal for the grapple as well as the cyls and box tubing for the boom. I'll have $2000 or less in it, but the rotator was $800 IIRC. and I have $500 already in machine work. Will be a bunch of fab work, but I have the time.


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## muddstopper (Oct 14, 2016)

Sandhill Crane said:


> After two hours of looking, I'm off to buy another one. Two weeks later it is still on my mind and I'll spend ten minutes here and there looking even after I picked up a replacement.
> 15" Crescent for changing the hitch ball. No where to be found. A year later it was sitting in the tool drawer on top of the one I bought to replace it. That was an odd moment. I'm sure there is a story too be told there, probably by my boys at my funeral. They swear not. Maybe my daughter... (or it could just be me and old age)


I havent had anybody with me in the shop the last few days, so I dont have anybody to blame for losing things. Spent 30 min looking for my little sledge, Laid it in plain sight and couldnt find it. Keep loosing my wire brush, found it on the other end of my welding table, again in plain sight and the table aint that big. And dont even ask me where my tape measures are. I have a half dozen laying around. I usually find the one I lost when I lay the one I am using right next to the lost one. Of course when I need it again, I have two lost tapes and have to get another one out of the box. I dont know if its old age, or I am just losing my mind


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## ChoppyChoppy (Oct 15, 2016)

muddstopper said:


> timbercreek, I welcome your opinions, More the merrier.. I am not afraid of using air for the saw lift cyl. I have been working with some sort of air circuit on different types of equipment for years. I think Valley was the one that didnt think it is a good ideal, but He lives in Alaska so its easy to see his concerns with freeze ups.
> 
> As for the barko loaders versus building my own. To me its more of a weight thing to factor in. Old logging equipment is heavy and to mount a old loader would involve a lot of redoing things so I dont know if you really save any time modifying a loader versus just building one. I have to admit, I have looked at a lot of those small forwarder type loaders and still havent ruled one out. Buying one without the engine and hydraulic systems would probably be a reasonable price and it would save a lot of work, but finding a used one around here, they are just unheard of. I have already bought the rotator and have the metal for the grapple as well as the cyls and box tubing for the boom. I'll have $2000 or less in it, but the rotator was $800 IIRC. and I have $500 already in machine work. Will be a bunch of fab work, but I have the time.



Blockbuster 18-20 uses air return on the bar and splitter. It's complete POOP to use in the winter. I'd never consider if it you use it in a place that gets cold. Waste lots of time with heaters and methanol trying to thaw it out. Really bad if it's snowing and then gets cold, the moisture gets in the air system (humidity)


Older loaders are pretty cheap. I see them for sale for $1000-1500 quite often. Prentice, Barco, Raney, Pacific, etc.


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## Ted Jenkins (Oct 15, 2016)

Air cylinders are just plain bad news in that they are not consistent and dangerous. as suggested find a used piece of equipment and tear it down. Thanks


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## muddstopper (Oct 15, 2016)

Explain how air cyl's are not consistent and dangerous. Air cyl,dont have to slam in and out, they can be made to run in and out as consistent as any hyd cyl. The valves for air cost a fraction of what a hyd valve will cost. And when it comes to low pressure uses, I believe they are a better choice than hyd. I think air is often chosen simply for speed. When you apply air to one end of the cyl the air is just exhausted out the opposite end and the cyl will just slam bam out or end. A lot of air cyl are also sping loaded in that air is only needed to move the cyl in one direction and the air is exhausted, the spring slams it back the opposite direction. The key to control the speed of the cyl is to control the flow of air. Most times you will only see a pressure regulator for controlling air pressure going to the cyl. flow is limited to size of air lines. To control the cyl speed, you have to use a flow control to control airflow going into the cyl as well as the air exhausting the cyl. When you compare the cost it takes to reduce from a high pressure high flow hydraulic system to a low flow, low pressure circuit, Metering air flow and pressure in and out of a air cyl is a fraction of the cost. Air regulators can be purchased at TSC, walmart, Lowes, Homdepot and many hardware stores, for less than $10. The valves for metering airflow also cost less than $10, so for around $30 you can control a air cyl for a saw bar. Many say to use a sequence valve to operate the saw motor, lift cyl and bar clamp. I priced one designed just for that purpose and the cost was over $500. Since I need air to operate my splitter valve, to me it just makes sense to use air for the saw bar cyl instead of using the sequence valve or trying to use pressure reducing valves and flow regulators to regulate the speed and power of the saw cyl.


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## muddstopper (Oct 15, 2016)

Box wedge almost finished, ran out of metal for the corner wedges. I have to drag a piece out of the scrap pile and sharpen and cut to fit.


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## Timbercreek (Oct 15, 2016)

such a great wedge design. care to weld me a slip on for my american splitter? hahaha


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## muddstopper (Oct 15, 2016)

Timbercreek said:


> such a great wedge design. care to weld me a slip on for my american splitter? hahaha


Sure, bring it on down. Mine you, it took me a week of cutting, grinding and welding and I still dont have my wedge finished. You can just leave you splitter here and i will test it on some 4ft dia white oak I havent gotten around to processing yet


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## muddstopper (Oct 17, 2016)

Finishing up the wedge, 
Had my son help me turn it up to finish a few welds. Thats when I noticed I had made a big mistake. The wedge is 90degrees out of proper orientation. The first wedge the wood was supposed to contact was supposed to be vertical, but now its horizonal. I guess it really doesnt matter whether the wood strikes the vertical or the horizonal wedge first, but its to late for me to cut it all out and change it now. Only advantage i can possibly see to the wedge being horizonal is that it should help keep the wood from kicking up when it strikes the wedge. If it works out ok, I'll just claim I planned it that way. I cant just turn the wedge over 90 degrees because the wide channel is whats going to support the wedge as it slides up and down, plus it would limit how high I could raise the wedge due to the wood striking the channel at the bottom. I would loose about 3inches of rise.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Oct 17, 2016)

That's a big sum *****! Will it also be able to handle normal sized wood (2"- 12"?)


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## KiwiBro (Oct 17, 2016)

Any concerns over the size of the splits? They look monstrous. Is this processor more of a primary breakdown machine and you intend to resplit smaller thereafter either on another machine or load up the splitting chamber with resplits and push as many through at once, rinse and repeat until splits are smaller?


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## muddstopper (Oct 17, 2016)

I dont know that I need to split 2in wood, I usually leave anything that small in the woods. I can quarter a 12in piece and a 24 inch round should be about 12 equal splits. I can raise the wedge and still split rounds smaller than 12in by using just the bottom half of the circle wedge. and anything smaller than about 6inches I should be able to just split in half. The center circle is 12inches across with a 2in spread toward the back. Everything else is straight. I am 100% sure there will be splits bigger than some people like, but dont expect any big problems until the wood starts getting around 24in dia. Anything over 24in dia will probably have at least 8 pieces per round that would need resplitting. Thats sounds like a lot of resplitting, but in reality I dont expect to put a lot of wood thru the machine that is larger than 24in dia. I can always add a few more wedges later on. Best laid plan of mice and men, as they say, We'll see how it works out. Wedge is built now and outside the shop. Next step is to re-enforce my hbeam to hold up to the 50+tons of force this splitter should make. Then I will mount the wedge on the beam and hook the hyd up to my other splitter and throw a few chunks on to see how it behaves.


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## cantoo (Oct 17, 2016)

Pic might be a little deceiving, the guy is standing back farther. Table is approx. 32" off ground and top looks to be just a little wider so I assume 36" wide box. This means 18" to center so the round looks to be about 12" diameter so that makes the 1st split a 6" quarter circle. The next split starts at 3" so a 24" round centered on the wedge would be 4 sided with small side at 3" and bigger side at 6". I think small enough splits on 24" wood, bigger logs and you got some big overnight blocks for sure.


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## cantoo (Oct 17, 2016)

Mudd, how close was my guess?


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## muddstopper (Oct 17, 2016)

Inside of wedge is 30x30 inches, Center circle is 12in dia. A perfectly round 12in dia piece of wood should yield 4 equal size pieces, but it wont. The wood will spread once it hits the first two cross wedges, so in reality, a 12in dia round will fit thru the wedge, but it will have a little shaved off the outside edge. Because of the wood spreading as it passes over the wedges, the outside splits of a 24in dia round will also end up a little bigger than 6 inch's. That would be perfectly round wood, which we know aint going to happen. I have more material to add 4 more wedges outside the circle, but I decided to just wait and see how it works before adding something I might have to cut off later.


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## cantoo (Oct 17, 2016)

I think you will likely be fine with the customers you will end up getting. Anyone who hires you to come split their wood will likely have a decent sized stove or furnace and the bigger splits won't be an issue. The people with smaller stoves usually burn a lot less wood and would likely just buy split wood and not hire a processor in.


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## muddstopper (Oct 17, 2016)

Well another advantage I might have is I will be able to split up to 30in long wood. Most processors are limited to just 24in lengths. I think that might make a difference for customers with outdoor burners.


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## cantoo (Oct 17, 2016)

Mudd, I made my big splitter 36" so I can split doubles of 16" wood. It really speeds the process up.


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## muddstopper (Oct 18, 2016)

My cyls are the length they are, I got to good a bargain on them to pass them up. I do understand what you say about splitting two shorter rounds at the same time. I figure for my own use, 20-22" is what I will process the most of, for hire, probably 16-18 inches which is what most of the firewood sellers produce. Lots of outdoor burners will handle really long wood. I know of a builtrite processor that will handle 4ft long wood. He has one commercial customer that burns year round in a large open fireplace. What I found with long wood is that unless its split pretty small, its really hard to load in a outdoor burner. Most of the people I know with big stoves will throw in 2 rows of 24in wood because it so hard to load the longer wood. Another thing I have experience with on long cyl is the cyl rod bowing. Unless you have a really large dia shaft, at full, or almost full extention and you hit something hard, the cyl will bow and wear out the seals. I have actually bent the shafts on 4in bore cyl with extra long strokes. When you stop to think about the overall length of a 4ft stroked cyl, total lenght is over 8 ft fully extended. You can bend a 2in dia rod pretty easily at those lengths.


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## cantoo (Oct 18, 2016)

My owb can fit a 54" piece. I cut everything 32" for mine though, easier to handle. I wouldn't want to have to handle a 54" split or round. I don't fill mine full either, 4 or 5 splits and that's it for the day usually.


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## muddstopper (Oct 18, 2016)

Didnt even open the door to the shop today. Wife had rock laying and painting on her honeydo list. Have to keep her happy. Go back to the doc tomorrow. Still have bending problems with my knee replacement. Xrays look good. Doc said I would be back to work by now. I didnt believe him when he said it and I dont look to go back to work this year. Will be cleaning up the shop tomorrow getting ready to fire up the track torch. I have about 16ft of plate to cut for beefing up the hbeam. Not sure what I will work on once thats done. I probably will drag out the log conveyor and get it mounted. Not sure what kind of modification I will have to do to the conveyor. It was originally electric powered. I will have to convert it to hyd, which I have the hyd motor for that already. Should just be a matter of replacing the elect motor with the hyd one, but not sure about the gear box ratios.


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## muddstopper (Oct 19, 2016)

Well, seen the Doc this morning. Have to go tomorrow to have a MUA. http://bonesmart.org/knee/mua-manipulation-under-anesthesia/ Looks like I will be down again for at least 3 weeks so project will again be put on hold. It only takes about 15 min for them to perform the procedure, but then it's therapy again everyday for 3 weeks. I should be able to get around at least as well as I am now, but taking time to go to therapy everyday sure puts a dent on working in the shop.


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## Deleted member 135597 (Oct 19, 2016)

muddstopper said:


> Well, seen the Doc this morning. Have to go tomorrow to have a MUA. http://bonesmart.org/knee/mua-manipulation-under-anesthesia/ Looks like I will be down again for at least 3 weeks so project will again be put on hold. It only takes about 15 min for them to perform the procedure, but then it's therapy again everyday for 3 weeks. I should be able to get around at least as well as I am now, but taking time to go to therapy everyday sure puts a dent on working in the shop.


That sucks. Gotta do what you gotta do to get better. Hang in there


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## ChoppyChoppy (Oct 19, 2016)

cantoo said:


> I think you will likely be fine with the customers you will end up getting. Anyone who hires you to come split their wood will likely have a decent sized stove or furnace and the bigger splits won't be an issue. The people with smaller stoves usually burn a lot less wood and would likely just buy split wood and not hire a processor in.



I've never heard of a mobile processing business.
Ive only ever had 2 people ask out of thousands of customers I've sold wood to and one was a friend. I think for most people sourcing logs and hauling them to a deck would not be practicle. Or if they have the equipment to do that then processing it isn't much of an issue.


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## muddstopper (Oct 19, 2016)

Valley, I dont expect it to be a big business. I am mostly building this machine for my own use. My intentions of being a mobile processing business is to try and recoup some of the build expense, not get rich. Tractor Supply, Lowes, other stores sell a ton of wood splitters every year. So there are a lot of folks around here using firewood. I have seen the market for selling wood more or less explode. Seems that everybody that buys a splitter ends up in the firewood business. I also see a lot of used splitters for sell every year. I think a lot of people find out that selling firewood is a very time and labor consuming business. Which is why I dont want to get into the selling end of a firewood business. I dont want to source the wood to sell and I dont want to spend all my time processing, stacking, loading and hauling wood. There are several loggers I know that do sell log loads of wood for fire wood, I have bought several loads myself, for my own use, not for resell. I know others buy log loads too. Those folks that want to heat with wood, but are getting to old to process those logs, ( I just about fit that same group), thats who my target customer base would be. No I wont get rich, or even make a lot of money by limiting my customer base, but I dont intend to work my arse off every day trying to build/run a large firewood business. I spent the last 40 years trying to make a living, If I only want to make money, the job I have now pays me $28 hr, I would just keep the job I have.


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## cantoo (Oct 19, 2016)

Valleywood, there are quite a few ads on Kijiji for mobile processing. The guys who buy the smaller "processors" like the Wallenstein ones figure they can make a few bucks and put it towards the machine. I really doubt that there is much of a demand though. My nephew is building a processor and intends to do this, I explained that no one will be able to pay the rate that he is going to need to even break even let alone make money. A guy 20 miles from me bought a Bell's Machining Processor to do his own wood and wood that he sells at the end of his driveway. He also offers mobile processing but I have no idea of rates.


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## muddstopper (Oct 20, 2016)

I think it would be hard to sell your services to another firewood producer, especially if they get their wood from a tree service. Most processors are pretty limited to the size wood they can process and tree service wood is usually cut to lengths that can be thrown on a truck or trailer, which would also be hard for a processor to work with. Even firewood sellers that buy log lengths of wood, might not like the ideal of sharing their profits with someone else. Only real market I see would be individuals that like the ideal of buying logs for firewood, but hates the ideal of doing all that bucking and splitting. Someone like me!!. I think once a person gets established, they will find enough people willing to pay for a processor to come and split their wood. I talked to a guy that runs a tire store about it. He has had a large pile of logs laying on his lot for about two years now. When he first got the wood it was, oh me and my buddies plan on bucking and splitting the wood and each taking part of it for their own use. That was two years ago and the wood is still laying there. If my processor was built, I coould probably process that wood. Other places I see a pile of firewood logs thats been laying for a long while, they will split a little every now and then, but it takes them a couple of seasons before its all split. again, another possibility to sell a splitting service, if one was available. I think once folks know someone can come out to their homes and process their wood, business might pick up enough to pay for a processor, but I wouldnt want to borrow a lot of money and have to make payments until a business took off. I sure wouldnt want to depend on processing wood to make a living unless I was selling wood.


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## Guswhit (Oct 20, 2016)

It's amazing the people that have asked me the last couple of years to come over and split their wood for them. I have passed on all but 1 old guy that I have been doing for years. Most people can't comprehend that you need a certain amount of money to do a service like this. It seems they think your time/machine run for pennies/hour so I just don't go there.


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## muddstopper (Oct 20, 2016)

Been reading a few threads on splitting prices, It seems most folks will hire themselfs and their splitter out for around $50 hr. Some folks as low as $20 and some as high as $100 and some just aint going to do it at all. Most of those folks claim about a cord per hr, if true than thats about $50 a cord for splitting. And I assume the wood is already bucked, if not then they are getting $50prhr bucking and $50 prhr splitting. In converstaion with another member here on AS, he states he paid $70 hr for someone to bring their processor 2 hr drive to his site. the guy averaged about 3 or so cords hr, but that was with the customer supplying skid steers to keep the processor loaded. At any rate, that would be about $23 per cord to buck and split 3 cords of wood. That isnt paying anything to the customer for the use of his labor and personal equipment. Easy enough for me to see that I wouldnt tow my processor 2 hrs to process only 3 or 4 cords of wood. Member had 12 cord processed and if he wants to chime in, he can tell you what it cost him, but I think it was a reasonable price considering the drive time and amount of wood processed.

Now lets say you are in the firewood selling business and you have access to plenty of log length firewood. Just for example lets say you sell 12 cords a year average. Small time by many standards, but in line with what a lot of part time operators do. Guy comes and processes all your seasons worth of wood for $23x 12 cord=$276. Folks that amount of money wont even make a good down payment on a factory processor. Also it would take several years at that rate to even pay for owning a processor. Even if you averaged 1 cord splitting per hour for 12 hrs worth, if they figure their labor and machine rate at the Low end of $20 splitting for hire, it would cost them $240. Would you split all that wood yourself just to save $36. And if you figure your own splitting rates to be closer to the $50hr rate, it would be a lot cheaper for you to hire the wood split than do it yourself. Not to mention the time you loss that you could have been selling and delivering firewood. I think hiring someone with a processor to come out and split a selling season worth of firewood might make more sense that buying a processor and doing it yourself. Of course different size operations present different operating cost. But whether 12 cords or 100 cords a year, hiring someone to process your wood sure should be worth considering.

Lets take it one step farther. Last log truck load I bought cost me $400. I got about 8 cords so I paid $50 cord for unprocessed wood. ( to be fair, I think the logger has raised his prices to about $450 load now) I hire someone to process that wood at $70 hr and average $23cord processing fees, (numbers taken from about example). I would have $63 cord in my firewood, and I havent even had to touch it. I can sell that wood delivered for $200 cord, all I need is a truck, a little gas and my labor. Thats trippling my money with a little left over for operating cost. Being able to hire someone to process my product looks a little more profitable than scrounging wood and hauling it to my wood lot and then firing up the chainsaws to buck everything and then still having to split, load and deliver it before selling it.

Prices vary around the country, you might have to pay more than these numbers and you might be able to sell your processed wood at higher numbers also. The numbers I used are made up numbers just for these examples, but I think they do reflect a probable scenario that might fit certain areas around this country. I only posted this to support my position that processing for hire can be in demand if the situation is carefully considered and marketed properly. all you have to do is convince a firewood producer that he can make more money by hiring you to process his firewood rather than doing all the work himself.


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## muddstopper (Oct 21, 2016)

Had the MUA yesterday. I hate those nerve blockers. 6 am now and I still cant feel the floor under my foot. Not sure what the Doc did while I was under. Ankle blue and foot swelled. I might of done it myself trying to walk. Warning, dont try walking with a numb leg, you will bust your butt. PT yesterday, again today. and everyday for next three weeks. Therapist has already warned me that therapy is going to hurt. He suggested I take my pain meds before therapy. Think I will take him up on that. I hate those pain killers, makes me want to sleep all the time, among other things I wont mention.


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## KiwiBro (Oct 21, 2016)

Good thinking Mr Mudd.
Was doing such numbers a wee while ago here and it was better to hire a processor and operator in than have the $ tied up in such a processor. Which then begged the question - why do they bother hiring themselves out when they can make more $ buying logs and processing their own timber and selling the firewood. When asking that question directly of such a processing service, the answer was the last thing they want to be messing with is selling firewood nor did they have the room for the sorts of volumes needed to make it really pay.
Unfortunately the processor I was looking to hire in wasn't really a processor, rather just a very big, fast splitter. It still needed logs blocked and blocks feed to the splitter, but it would have kept me busy just clearing the 1m3 bags the outfeed conveyor would be filling, and keeping the operator fed with rounds to split.
It is something I will be trialing near the end of the Summer down here - will get a few days worth of rounds ready then get them in and see how the numbers compare in the real world.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Oct 21, 2016)

I wouldn't think of moving my equipment for less than $150/hr, starting from when I start tearing it all down/loading it up until it's back operating at the shop.

Log truck load from me is $1400. 9 cords. Same wood processed and delivered would be $2,475.

It'd take me easily 15-20 hrs to tear down my processor, haul it across town, set it up, haul a skid steer there and get 9 cords processed.... ie even if they got logs for free it'd cost more.

Better off to sell me the logs at $500, let me haul and process it and buy it back, for about $2k out of pocket.

As far as costs... well cost of living is much higher here and without some form of heat, your gonna be in a world of hurt come mid November when it's -25* or colder. Winter here is about 7 months.


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## cantoo (Oct 21, 2016)

That's the issue right there Valley. It would take 150 hour to make it worthwhile. At any less it just means it takes a little longer for you to go broke. You can work your azz off running the processor for 5 years and end up with a worn out machine and weekend money in your pocket.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Oct 21, 2016)

And the other thing is having iron not on the property is a whole 'nother ball of string as far as insurance. I know I wouldn't feel too comfortable hauling $100k+ of iron out to Billy Joe Bob's backyard to take care of a few cords of wood! He might be just fine, but something like a processor certainly attracts attention, not many people have seen them. Next thing you know it's stolen and then how are you putting food on the table?

The small $10-15k processors are slightly better than cutting with a saw and splitting by hand. Fine for a homejobber doing maybe 10-20 cords a year, but they would never hold up to commercial use... several hundred cords a year, year after year after year.


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## Guswhit (Oct 21, 2016)

ValleyFirewood said:


> As far as costs... well cost of living is much higher here and without some form of heat, your gonna be in a world of hurt come mid November when it's -25* or colder. Winter here is about 7 months.



Only 7 month's of winter?
I thought you guy's had 11 months of really good ice fishing and 1 month kind of marginal? LOL


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## ChoppyChoppy (Oct 21, 2016)

Guswhit said:


> Only 7 month's of winter?
> I thought you guy's had 11 months of really good ice fishing and 1 month kind of marginal? LOL



Haha. Roughly speaking Winter is mid October to April. Spring May to mid June. Summer mid June to mid August. Fall mid August to mid October.


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## sam-tip (Oct 21, 2016)

The guy I hired was setup in 5 minutes. Put the two jacks down and unhooked the truck. Didn't unhook the elevator. Then I started loading the logs I have been saving for two year. No log trucks around here. Just lots of tree service wood. Did 12 cord in 4 hours 15 min. Wanted $340 and gave him $400. Fed him lunch and then he was headed home. With the nice trimmed logs he was running I worked him hard. I assume not everyone has perfect logs to run and the hourly rate adds up. It was his third job of the week. Said he stays busy till mid January.


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## muddstopper (Oct 22, 2016)

Lot of good points brought up. Processing for hire on someone elses lots isnt just as simple as pulling up to the site and cranking up the machine. If the customer has support equipment to use, how do you feel about running someone elses equipment. Who's going to be responsible if it breaks down. If the customer is going to be running his own loaders, how good a operator is he, is he going to take care not to damage your processor, or worse, drop a log on you. Lots of things to consider when you pull up on a site. If there isnt any thing to load the logs with and you have to bring you own loader, thats twice as many trips going and coming. 

My plans do call for a knuckle boom loader mounted on the processor, so assuming I can pull up beside the load of logs, I should be able to be a one man band, load and process, without needing any extra support equipment. I dont see setup time being a big deal, I might get fooled, but with a loader on the machine, you already have outriggers to stabilize the machine and shouldnt even have to unhook it from the truck. At any rate, I still think unless the work was very close, you wouldnt be able to make any serious money going 100 miles to process a single truck load of logs. Of course the more wood there is to process, the less the cost per cord would be simply because you could split the cost of travel with the number of cords processed. A $200 travel charge split with just 4 cords would be $50 before the first stick was split, but if you had 20 cords to process, the cost per cord would drop to just $10crd travel pay. While my plans are not to really go looking for hiring out my machine,, but probably wont turn down anything I feel reasonable if it falls in my lap, I think this discussion is certainly worth talking about. A lot of different perspectives and points of view and I wouldnt really know how it would work out until I actually try it.


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## KiwiBro (Oct 25, 2016)

Interesting:


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## ChoppyChoppy (Oct 25, 2016)

sam-tip said:


> The guy I hired was setup in 5 minutes. Put the two jacks down and unhooked the truck. Didn't unhook the elevator. Then I started loading the logs I have been saving for two year. No log trucks around here. Just lots of tree service wood. Did 12 cord in 4 hours 15 min. Wanted $340 and gave him $400. Fed him lunch and then he was headed home. With the nice trimmed logs he was running I worked him hard. I assume not everyone has perfect logs to run and the hourly rate adds up. It was his third job of the week. Said he stays busy till mid January.



Need to get the processor fairly level, that might mean putting blocks under the tires and legs. Setup sawdust collector, etc. It's not a huge deal but still 20-30 mins.

Not to mention hauling it with the seperate conveyor (not the 15ft bolt on one) requires an oversize permit and in some states a pilot car. The conveyor tows like **** since it has no suspension... bounces around a ton and wags all over. 45mph max type thing.

Short logs are a PITA. 25-30ft logs is what I use (tree length cut in 1/2).

Best I've done is 45 mins to a cord. Not sure how he got it to 20 mins a cord, it's pretty much not possible. Cycle time is about 12-15 seconds (cut & split). So if he was able to feed, cut and split without once stopping (no fussing to feed a log, position a piece, resplit, etc) and work like a robot, it'd still be around 5hrs of processing.

None the less, there's no way I'd haul 50+k of equipment to a property for ~$80/hr. For ~5hrs I would have charged around $750.


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## muddstopper (Oct 25, 2016)

If I had to haul two or more pieces of equipment to a site, I dont know if I could justify any price. Folks seem to think the only thing they should pay for is the actual time spent processing. They dont care if its 10miles or 1000 for you to get there. Been there with my hydroseeding business. You had to go to load materials, find a water source, and load the machine before doing any work, and when you where done, you still had to clean the machine out. My 1000 gal machine would empty a load in 12 minutes and that 12 minutes was all they thought they should pay for. I suspect it will be the same if your processing firewood for someone too. On the subject of towing a conveyor, My plans call for a scorpion type conveyor setup. This type of setup, the conveyor folds up like a scorpions tail. It stays connected to the processor and you just unfold it for processing and fold it back up when your ready to haul. Shouldnt take more than a few minutes to set up on site. Lots of things one can do to make the process easier, and all of them take money to do. I plan on getting the processor working and worrying about the conveyor later. Three more weeks of therapy with orders today to stay the heck off my leg.


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## sam-tip (Oct 25, 2016)

I don't think this is legal but the guy I hired pulled the processor and then behind processor was the conveyor. He was about 70 ft long. I thought you could have a 5th wheel then a bumper pull. But not two bumper pull. But then these are not trailers they are mobile equipment. No license plates for mobile equipment here in farming country.


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## muddstopper (Oct 25, 2016)

I dont know either Doug, but I have seen many gooseneck trailers with a trailer ball on the rear. Must be somehow legal


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## dancan (Oct 25, 2016)

Don't get caught with that "B"train up here lol


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## muddstopper (Dec 13, 2016)

Well things are starting to look up. Been trying to buy the power plant for this beast for about a year. Today was the day, caught the guy needing a little cash. Engine is a international 7.3 non turbo motor. Got the whole truck for $1000. Engine is a almost new rebuilt, not sure actual milage, but less than 20,000 miles. I will be using the engine, air compressor, fuel tank and air tanks off the truck. All I got to do is figure out how I.m going to attach the hyd pumps to the thing.

On another note, doc has cleared me to go back to work so there goes my free time to work on this thing. Probably go back jan 2nd. Havent been cleared by the railroad docs yet, they might not let me go back, which is fine with me. Either way, July 27th and I will retire for certain anyways. I might get this beast built before next season. 

On other hold up might be if my house sells. We put it on the market today. Wife wants to built back on her old homeplace. I hope to goodness this is the last time I have to move. I am in my 6th house in 40 years. The place we are living in now was my dads place. I bought my brother and sister out after dad passed. Been here since 1999. Moving will mean giving up my shop and sheds, but I plan on building workspace before the house is built. Biggest problem will be storing my tools and shop equipment until the new shop is built. without tools, wont be much fabricating going on. Might just rent a building temporary, havnt thought that far ahead.


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## muddstopper (Oct 22, 2017)

Just bringing my old build thread back to the top. After a year and a half of surgeries and Physical therapy, and then a summer of fishing every chance I got. I finally cleaned out the shop and started cutting out the metal to box my hbeam. No pics, yet. Got to do a little grinding and fitting of the plate, but it sure felt good to get back in the shop. Picked up my power supply a couple weeks ago, I bought it last dec and just got around to getting it home. RR wont let me go back to work and the Retirement board wont rule on my disability so funds are limited. I have enough stuff to work with to keep me busy for a while, unless the fish go back to biteing, then all bets are off.


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## muddstopper (Oct 23, 2017)

Picked up the metal plate to mount my wedge to the beam with today. 28x48x3/4. $136. This will allow me to mount the box wedge on the end of the hbeam. the wedge will need more heavy bracing once mounted, but I have a bunch of odd pieces of heavy metal to do that with so metal buying is over with for a while. Sure I will need a bunch more once I start mounting the conveyors and the engine. One piece at a time. Had to buy a grinding cup for hand grinder to clean up the metal I cut over the week end. Rain has stopped for now so maybe I can get back to it today. I have the welding table rolled up to the shop door but the hard rain has kept me from opening it. I hate grinding inside a closed building. Much better to grind with door open blowing dust outside instead of letting it drift onto everything in the shop. Maybe a few new pics tomorrow.


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## muddstopper (Oct 26, 2017)

well, I promised a few new pics. It doesnt look like a lot of work has been done, but there was a lot of cutting, grinding and welding to get to this point.
One side of Hbeam, 


Cyl base mount all gusseted up,,, 
tomorrow will weld up the other side and start mounting the box wedge.. Have to borrow the bro's tractor to lift the wedge, I cant even lift the base for the wedge by myself. Things are starting to get very heavy, very fast.


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## ChoppyChoppy (Oct 26, 2017)

Hope you don't need to move it far, gonna need a semi truck!


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## muddstopper (Oct 26, 2017)

There is a lot of weight in the beam and wedge. Engine and hyd will add even more. The killer will be the knuckleboom. I could add it all up, but I'm scared to. I am sure my trailer will hold it, but not sure my truck will pull it. It will get weighed once completed, I am guessing around 3 tons or so.


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## dave_dj1 (Oct 27, 2017)

This is gonna be bad azz! Glad you're up and about and feeling better. Don't over do it. Have fun...fish on!


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## muddstopper (Oct 27, 2017)

Went fishin yesterday evening. Just drove down to the lake back waters to see how far down we could drive. Took in a fishing pole and threw a few lures, but hydroplant up stream was generating and water flowing to fast to do any good.

I did a little math last night concerning the weight. Splitter beam with wedge and cyl mounts should weigh in just under 1000lbs. Of course I still have to add the conveyors and some bracing for the wedge. Splitting cyl are 150lb each 7 or 8 hundred lbs for the hyd oil, a bunch of hoses and valves, other cyl's, and then there is that 7.3 diesel engine, I dont have a clue how much it weighs. I havent even tried to put a weight guesstament to the knuckle boom, just say heavy. The trick will be balancing the weight evenly on the trailer. The trailer has a wooden floor I might remove to cut down on weight. I have had a 9000lb tractor on the trailer. I built the trailer several years ago and double framed it then, so it will hold the weight, but I might have to swap axles.

Taking a break today, got business to take care of. I might get back to it sometime this evening. Weather is warming back up so I might work a little after dark.


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## 661Joe (Oct 27, 2017)

I know a 7.3 powerstroke weighs 1100# dry.. hope that helps. Love the build


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## ChoppyChoppy (Oct 27, 2017)

7.3L is around 1100-1200lbs dressed out (full of oil, accessories, etc)


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## muddstopper (Oct 27, 2017)

Well I knew the engine was heavy, just didnt know how heavy. That probably doesnt include the radiator. I did a little work this evening and got the other side of the beam bracing spot welded. It will take about a hour to fully weld it up tomorrow. It takes about 5lbs of rods to fully weld one side. Then time to add the heavy stuff (wedge) to the beam. Probably put a coat of paint on to prevent rust while I work on the conveyors.


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## muddstopper (Nov 2, 2017)

another pic. I finally got the wedge mounted on the beam. 
It will be braced some more as I build the saw and clamp frame. Its getting very hard to move around. I think y next step is to go ahead and set it on the trailer so I can ove it in and out of the shop. Spray bombing as I go to help keep down some of the rust. Cat yellow


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## Kevin in Ohio (Nov 2, 2017)

When I was building mine I worried about it crushing a stand or me! I decided to cut some logs at the working height I wanted it at and made a nice stable place to work off of. I had the luxury of not having to move it till it had the wheels on though. Made it nice to roll over to make welding easy. Mine ended up around 4000 lbs when done. Looking good and glad to see you are back on it. I assume your health is going better? I just found out I have another complete tendon tear in my shoulder. Getting old(er) is such fun.


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## muddstopper (Nov 3, 2017)

Take care of that shoulder, Mine has been hurting with all the heavy lifting. Getting old aint for wussies thats for sure.

Up to now, I have been working off the steel sawbucks and my welding table. My concern now is the beam could turn over just working off the sawbucks. I would set it on the floor, but I cant get down there and do any work. I am going to go ahead and set it on the trailer while I work on building the knuckle boom. I met a guy at the lws yesterday that has a cnc plasma cutter. I am going to throw a little work his way cutting out my grapple for the knuckle boom. I could cut the plate, but the cnc cutter should make every thing more even without all that grinding. I think the grinding is whats making my shoulder hurt. 

I am going to go ahead and order the cyl to lift the wedge. I thought I had a couple of cyl already until I measured the stroke and it turns out they only had a 6 3/8" stroke. It can raise 8" of total lift. This will allow me to split up to 8in wood in halfs, under the circle, Lower and split 4 ways, using the bottom of the circle, or push 12in dia rounds thru the circle for a 4 way split. By raiseing and lowering the wedge to match dia of the wood, I should be able to keep resplits to a minimum. Once the wood dia gets over 24", thats when the respliting will start. I also expect a lot of shavings and splinters. Is what it is.


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## muddstopper (Nov 3, 2017)

Loaded the splitting beam on the trailer, along with the conveyor. Got to do a bunch of work to conveyor. It was electric and going to convert to hyd. A little torch work to the side chutes. Got to figure out gearing, I plan on removing the gear box. I do have a question. Should the conveyor be set up to pull the log toward the saw or push the log, in other words, which end does the motor need to be mounted. I'll also probably end up making the conveyor a little shorter. Conveyor is 14ft long, trailer is 18ft. I am wanting to mount the knuckle boom on the tongue end of trailer and hav'nt measured yet, KB isnt built yet, but it looks like the conveyor will hit the knuckle boom.


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## Yarz (Nov 3, 2017)

Is your conveyor chain or belt? If so, then my first instinct is to say it should pull the log, that way any slack in your conveyor is pulled tight. Pushing may cause whatever little slack there is to "bunch".


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## Jakers (Nov 3, 2017)

always best to "pull" with the drive system on any chain or belt


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## muddstopper (Nov 3, 2017)

Conveyor is belt driven. I'll get a picture tomorrow.


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## kevin j (Nov 4, 2017)

Drive should be on the top end if possible. If it's on the bottom the full tension is on the bottom which puts twice the bearing load on the top and also makes alignment and tension a lot more critical. Slack accumulates at the very bottom of the bottom and it can be a problem. 
One of the big advantages of hydraulic drive. It's easy to put a small compact powerful motor any place you want it


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## muddstopper (Nov 8, 2017)

Got processor and conveyor set on trailer and put wife car in the shop for a brake job. First time I have been able to get anything of any size in the shop in over a year. Bad news is, I got the wifes car in the shop to work on. I ended up throwing my back out trying to remove the lug nuts on the tires. My impact wouldnt budge them. I ended up using a 4way lug wrench with a cheater pipe to break them loose. Now there just aint any sense in putting lugs on a car that tight. I called the tire shop that had put on the tires to complain. I wasnt ***** complaining, I just wanted him to know what the guys in the shop where doing. If I had of had a flat on the road somewhere, there is no way I would have been able to change a tire. My 4way looks like a horseshoe and my back feels like crap. My next set of new tires I will be watching when they tighten the lugs. If they put another impact on them, I am going to wait until they set the car back on the ground and then ask them to take a lug wrench and break them all loose before I leave. 

Now that car is out of shop, I think my next item is to build the knuckle boom. With the floor clean, I can lay everything out and figure where to start drilling, cutting and welding. Good news is the retirement board approved my disability claim Monday, first check due Dec 1st. I might be able to afford a few of the remaining parts I need to finish this thing.


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## Kevin in Ohio (Nov 8, 2017)

I had that happen on a company truck where I worked out of high school. Knew the owner of the shop and when I got back from getting a new set of tires I tried to break the lugs loose. Broke a US made breaker bar with a 4ft pipe. I proceeded to get back in the truck and go to the tire shop. Called the owner out and said do you guys still require your tech to torque lugs by hand and he replied yes. I told him to get the guy who did did the truck and have him come out. He did and I asked him if he hand torqued them and he said yes in front of his boss. I then reached in the truck and gave him a standard 1/2 inch ratchet and extension and told him to break them loose. His eyes got like saucers and the owner knew what was coming. After straining his guts out and his face turning red the owner told him to pull it in the shop and that if another customer came in with the same complaint he was going to be looking for another job. After he left the owner thanked me. I now take a breaker with me when I get new tires so I don't waste a trip. Happens about 50% of the time at various shops.


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## NSMaple1 (Nov 9, 2017)

Have been there before - no fun.

And this might sound weird - but check your valve stem caps too. Almost as important. I almost got stuck out once. Noticed a tire way down, and managed to find an air hose. Big whew. But then I couldn't get the damned cap off the valve stem - no way no how. I had to wait there for almost half an hour until someone came by that had a set of pliers so I could get the cap off. Looked like it had a trace of some kind of silicony stuff on it - even with the pliers it didn't come off real easy. All four wheels were like that. Something so simple.....


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## muddstopper (Nov 9, 2017)

I was very tempted to take the car back to the tire shop, but I was in a hurry to get done. Hind site, I should have stopped at the first rounded lugnut and took it back. My back would feel better for sure. Up to now, I have had good service with the tire store owners and they have been very good about fixing my little tractor tires, and they are usually cheaper than the big tire stores when it comes to my cars and trucks. When I called them, I didnt make a big scene, I just wanted him to know he needed to check up on what the guys in the shop where doing. When I need new tires again, I plan on taking my shiny new, bent up, 4way with me just for effect. 

Enough of that complaining, now I got to find the knuckle boom plans I had saved on my puter. For some reason, it aint where I thought I put it, and I cant find it again on the web.


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## muddstopper (Nov 9, 2017)

found it, http://www.crowsnest.us/sawmill/log_boom_construction.htm 
This setup is pretty close to what I had in mind. I already bought the Valby rotator, and the grapple I will build is pretty similar to what these guys built. My boom rotation will work the same way as theirs, except I have already mocked up a 44000 truck hub assembley to mount the boom on. My boom will be 5x5 1/4in tube. I havent figured out the exact total reach, but I have 20ft of tubing to work with. I am going to be doing a cyl swap from my original plans. A few months ago I traded up some boom cyl's from a bucket truck. These cyl have built in counter balance valves and are a little bigger dia and stroke. This will probably make the boom have more lifting power so I will have to set pressures a little lower to prevent bending or breaking something. They will certainly change my geometry, so I have got to refigure all the angles.. Probably a good thing I didnt drill any of the mounting holes back when I first figured this stuff out. 

I have struggled with where I want to mount the loader on the processor. My thoughts where to mount the loader up front on the trailer, but operate the loader from the rear where I would be while splitting. I didnt like the ideal of slinging a log toward me or over my head when loading, so I decided to mount the loader in front of the operator seat where I could stay behind the log. Problems with weight distribution quickly surfaced, not to mention trying to attach a boom to the trailer around the splitting cyl and beam, saw and log clamp; and visibility trying to look over everything trying to pick a log off the ground. So I have went back to mounting on the front of the trailer. I will probably just go ahead and mount the control valves for loader up on the tongue. Having the loader on the front will also make it easier to load stuff on and off the truck. One other advantage of mounting the boom on the trailer is, if I ever set the processor off the trailer, I could use a small gas engine and pump to power the loader and have a ready made fowarder. Dont know how hard it will be to set the processor on and off trailer, probably not very easy, Tractor on one end and loader picking up the other, might not be to bad. Set processor on the ground and haul logs to it on the trailer.


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## dave_dj1 (Nov 9, 2017)

Can't wait to see it in action. I started a grapple a while back and kind of gave up on it. this may be the inspiration I need to pick it back up.


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## Cody (Nov 9, 2017)

muddstopper said:


> Got processor and conveyor set on trailer and put wife car in the shop for a brake job. First time I have been able to get anything of any size in the shop in over a year. Bad news is, I got the wifes car in the shop to work on. I ended up throwing my back out trying to remove the lug nuts on the tires. My impact wouldnt budge them. I ended up using a 4way lug wrench with a cheater pipe to break them loose. Now there just aint any sense in putting lugs on a car that tight. I called the tire shop that had put on the tires to complain. I wasnt ***** complaining, I just wanted him to know what the guys in the shop where doing. If I had of had a flat on the road somewhere, there is no way I would have been able to change a tire. My 4way looks like a horseshoe and my back feels like crap. My next set of new tires I will be watching when they tighten the lugs. If they put another impact on them, I am going to wait until they set the car back on the ground and then ask them to take a lug wrench and break them all loose before I leave.
> 
> Now that car is out of shop, I think my next item is to build the knuckle boom. With the floor clean, I can lay everything out and figure where to start drilling, cutting and welding. Good news is the retirement board approved my disability claim Monday, first check due Dec 1st. I might be able to afford a few of the remaining parts I need to finish this thing.



The thing about getting them that tight is that the threads can get stretched enough that the required torque spec in the future might actually not be sufficient and you risk them backing off. Even worse is that it can fatigue that stud to the point of failure too, never know when it will fail though. I use a 1/4" cordless drill to run lug nuts on, it's rated max torque is in inch pounds so I know it's not going to rattle them on too tight, at the same time I've never had a lug nut turn more than half a turn when torquing either. Tight is tight people, don't get me started on drain plugs or filters either...


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## ChoppyChoppy (Nov 9, 2017)

You talking about the log trough? I would drive it from the end near the saw. I also would not make it 14ft, that's really short. Figure even 1/2 of a tree length log will be 20-25ft. Better would be to handle tree length as most of the larger processors do.


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## muddstopper (Nov 10, 2017)

Valley, I understand what your saying, but I dont normally get whole trees. Also my trailer is only 18ft long. With the wedge end at the back of the trailer, then add the distance back to the pusher plate, A 14ft conveyor is about all I can set on it. At any rate, 14ft of a 20ft log will set on the conveyor with just 6ft hanging off the end, without over balancing. Not perfect,, but I think adequate for what wood I will see. I might have to fire up a saw every now and then, but it wouldnt be often enough to pose any real problems. I am also building this thing on a budget that got very tight when I had to have my knee replacement. Working with what I have and what I have accumilated once I conceived the ideal to build the processor. There are a few ideals I have changed my mind about once I started this build, and will probably change my mind on others as I move forward. So I do appreciate any and all suggestions that you and others have given.


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## Yarz (Nov 10, 2017)

muddstopper said:


> found it, http://www.crowsnest.us/sawmill/log_boom_construction.htm
> This setup is pretty close to what I had in mind.



I can't wait to see this part of your build! 
I've built a few simple things (bumpers, etc), and have plans for more, but never considered that a grapple boom would even be in the realm of a DIY project. But seeing the closeups on that website make it seem "almost" simple after you've done all the math to design reach/capacity/etc and break it down into individual sections. Very cool stuff!


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## muddstopper (Nov 10, 2017)

The math is the hard part. Geometry never was my strong suite. When I first conceived the ideal of building a loader, I tried drawing it out in autocad. I never had any learning in that stuff either. I fooled with it for days and finally got a buddy to come over and show me how to use autocad.. Only thing was, his version of autocad was about 10years older than the version I had downloaded so he couldnt make it work either. He finally did the drawing on his laptop and we imported to my autocad which did reconize the much older version of the software. Once we figured it out how to actually do the design, I found it much easier to just sweep up the shop floor and lay everything out there. A Ruler and chalkline and a piece of string and I had it laidout on the floor in just a few minutes. Now that I have decided to use different size cyl's, I have to do it all over again. I just hope I can remember how. The pic is the first time I laid it out, dont know if you can see it on screen


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## muddstopper (Nov 13, 2017)

Well, after a good discussion with a good engineer, I decided not to use the belted conveyor I had planned on for advancing the log. While I still think it would work, The need to change a few things, as well as buying a new belt, just makes sense building one from scratch. I will use the gear box, but think I will go with log rollers instead of a belt. I have considered a conveyor chain, but the cost of the chain and then modifying would cost about the same as building the log rollers. Using rollers also means I can mount the gear box on either end if I need to.


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## Jakers (Nov 13, 2017)

ive seen a few nice ones with rollers. they are usually hourglass shaped with teeth and all the driven ones are chain driven. seem to work well


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## muddstopper (Nov 13, 2017)

I have looked at quite a few too, just not in person. I think I will probably make the rollers 8-10in dia, space them 2 ft apart and make everyone chain driven. Might make a roller for the log clamp and run it off the other rollers. Make it rise and fall with an air cyl so I can keep a steady pressure on the log as it advances. Just throwing ideals around in my head, dont know, might make it over complicated


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## Jakers (Nov 14, 2017)

Spring pressure with hydraulic assist works well on choppers but is rather cumbersome. I imagine through the use of a lever it could be made smaller so it's not a 1-1 on the moving parts


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## rancher2 (Nov 14, 2017)

Muddstopper
Since you are going to build the feed system from scratch might think about a overhead shuttle grapple like Multitek uses then the feed system and the clamp is covered. With a overhead shuttle big crooked wood is no problem to feed or clamp for the saw.


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## muddstopper (Nov 14, 2017)

I went and looked at the Multitek grapple feed. I dont have a cyl anywhere near long enough to build one. Been doing a little math on the cost of building a hourglass roller feed system. Havent got a complete list yet, but it looking like its going to be $500-$700 range and I have a bunch of stuff I can use to build it. Adding a long cyl and grapple with a cyl, building the slide frame and supports, not sure what the cost would be, but I would endup buying a lot of parts I dont already have. Something to consider but not the direction I am leaning.


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