# Definition of the Cord?



## Samlock (Dec 11, 2011)

There's a definition found in Wiki Cord (unit) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, yet I don't get it. "Ranked and well stowed" 128 cubic feet. Does it include the air too? Or is it the solid wood only?

Thanks. Sam


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## Sport Faller (Dec 11, 2011)

Samlock said:


> There's a definition found in Wiki Cord (unit) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, yet I don't get it. "Ranked and well stowed" 128 cubic feet. Does it include the air too? Or is it the solid wood only?
> 
> Thanks. Sam



That's with airspace, a 4x4x8 space filled with wood stacked reasonably tight is an accepted cord of wood


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## Samlock (Dec 11, 2011)

Danke, Jake.

How do you convert that to the solid wood volume?

I don't dare to ask about board feet at this moment. I'd just like to get hang of your units.


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## Sport Faller (Dec 11, 2011)

Samlock said:


> Danke, Jake.
> 
> How do you convert that to the solid wood volume?
> 
> I don't dare to ask about board feet at this moment. I'd just like to get hang of your units.



I've always kindof eyeballed it from tree size and how the box of your truck is filled, but I've read in several different places that 500 BF will usually equal a stacked cord


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## forestryworks (Dec 11, 2011)

Samlock said:


> How do you convert that to the solid wood volume?



Actual wood volume of a cord is around 80-90 cubic feet.


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## Oldtimer (Dec 11, 2011)

According to most people in New England, a "full cord" is about 10% more than what you just delivered...


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## forestryworks (Dec 11, 2011)

I always deliver a little more than a cord. It pays well to do so 

I've never seen anybody deliver EXACTLY a cord. Most people are a little over. And some are a little short.


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## Sport Faller (Dec 11, 2011)

forestryworks said:


> I always deliver a little more than a cord. It pays well to do so
> 
> I've never seen anybody deliver EXACTLY a cord. Most people are a little over. And some are a little short.



I always try to bring out a nice full cord too, just those few extra chunks piled on top will leave a much more pleasant taste in a buyers mouth

However, I'm not in to having someone who obviously doesn't know #### about firewood come outside with their brand new buckskin gloves on and tape measure in hand climbing all over my truck like a ####### ape and himmin and hawing and saying, "well a cord usually looks like more than this" and "oh that one peice has a little rot in it, i dunno" 

One more word to all those just dipping their toes in the firewood biz, this might make you look like a prick, but you gotta get that cash in hand BEFORE you unload if it's someone who you've never done business with before


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## bitzer (Dec 11, 2011)

Cash in hand for sure especially if you're delivering a truckload. 

4x4x8 = 128 cubic feet = 1500 board feet. 

It depends on how the wood is as far as air space. My firewood goes out in 8' 4" sticks. The 4" makes up for the air. Really tight stacked split wood would probably amount to more. Lets say I measure my pile: 40' long by 8' high by 8' deep divided by 128 = 20 cords. 

A lot of times its just eyeballin though. Kind of like something I liked to do in high school. Yep here ya go, thats a quarter.


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## Samlock (Dec 12, 2011)

forestryworks said:


> Actual wood volume of a cord is around 80-90 cubic feet.



Ok. Actual wood volume. Which unit is it? The mills don't buy air, do they?


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## Rick Alger (Dec 12, 2011)

Mills pay for pulpwood by the ton nowadays.


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## Joe46 (Dec 12, 2011)

Thing is most people today at least around here are buying face cords, not real cords.


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## Frank Savage (Dec 12, 2011)

Here in mid Europe, we have something called "conversion numbers"-coeficients depending on wood species (resp. bark thickness) and prevalent diameter from which is the woodpile (freely) stacked. Were made after intensive research and extensive measurements in later 19th cent.
Eg. for oak around 12" dia and up it´s 0,56; spruce about 0,68; for oak splited it´s 0,64;, spruce splited 0,78. It counts for normal manner of stacking, when you just take care about not having too much free space and not too much trouble about placing pieces. Just to old cord definition I saw somewere-"Just that a mouse runs in freely, but the cat only shoves her paw".
If you´re good, with splited oak you can reach by clever positioning up to about 0,78 solid wood in the volume of pile and about 0,90 with knotless spruce, but it takes time (did that . 
During the week, I´ll try to list here for you the more interesting part-but it´s for orientation only, since it was made for european species and somehow specific growth conditions. It may be well 5-8 % or even more off for you in N. Am.


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## Samlock (Dec 13, 2011)

In Germany I remember running across some peculiar figures to describe the strict volume of a given stack of timber. I never really got it. My spoken German is poor. Or were they just pulling my leg? Beats me...


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## PJM (Dec 13, 2011)

1 standard cord = 128 cu. ft.
1 cord (wood) ~ 90 cu. ft.
1 cu. ft. ~ 5.79 boardfeet

1 cord (wood) ~ 520 boardfeet


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## bitzer (Dec 13, 2011)

Where is the 90 cubic feet coming from? I mean how are you figuring that? There is no way there is a 30% loss for air. No matter how you slice it 128 cubic feet is a cord. You just need more than that to get you there. Also I don't mean to turn this into a math equation, but 1 cubic foot equals 12 board feet. A board foot is 1" x 12" x 12". So in a cubic foot you have 12" x 12" x 12"= 12 bf. 12 bf x 128 cubic feet (volume of cord) = 1536 bf.


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## forestryworks (Dec 13, 2011)

A cord only OCCUPIES 128 cu. ft. of space. Actual wood volume, from the many different sources I've read, are 80-90 cu. ft.

And yes, there is 12bf per cf, but then you gotta factor in kerf and bark and fart space :msp_biggrin:


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## Sport Faller (Dec 13, 2011)

bitzer said:


> Where is the 90 cubic feet coming from? I mean how are you figuring that? There is no way there is a 30% loss for air. No matter how you slice it 128 cubic feet is a cord. You just need more than that to get you there. Also I don't mean to turn this into a math equation, but 1 cubic foot equals 12 board feet. A board foot is 1" x 12" x 12". So in a cubic foot you have 12" x 12" x 12"= 12 bf. 12 bf x 128 cubic feet (volume of cord) = 1536 bf.



I'd have to say that if a person delivered 1536 bf of actual wood for the price of 1 traditionally accepted cord of wood, you'd be everyone's favorite firewood guy


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## lfnh (Dec 13, 2011)

forestryworks said:


> A cord only OCCUPIES 128 cu. ft. of space. Actual wood volume, from the many different sources I've read, are 80-90 cu. ft.
> 
> And yes, there is 12bf per cf, but then you gotta factor in *kerf and bark and fart space* :msp_biggrin:



ahha, that where those Spotted Owls overwinter. learn something new every day.
Thanks for sharing.


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## hammerlogging (Dec 13, 2011)

but if you translate the solid wood vs. stacked wood figures, 85 cu.ft of solid wood is 66% of 128 cu.ft. 66% of 1560 bf is about 1020 bf And that'll split out pretty close to a real cord, seems to me.


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## bitzer (Dec 13, 2011)

forestryworks said:


> A cord only OCCUPIES 128 cu. ft. of space. Actual wood volume, from the many different sources I've read, are 80-90 cu. ft.
> 
> And yes, there is 12bf per cf, but then you gotta factor in kerf and bark and fart space :msp_biggrin:



Well the bark is gone when they are sawing it up and sure you would lose some to kerf, but not half. I'm not postive but I'm pretty sure in a mill you loose 1/8" per kerf. Spread out over a cubic foot you'd lose 1.25". So then you are down to 10.75 bf per cube. 

I would say 10% loss is to air is pretty acceptable when the wood is stacked. Split and stacked well, defintetly less. I'd be losing my ass is if I was giving a free cord for every 3 I put on the truck. It just doesn't work that way. 


This is one of those you could go on forever. I'll stick with what I get paid for.


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## hammerlogging (Dec 14, 2011)

considering I don't know, I sure as heck should have stayed out of it.


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## bitzer (Dec 14, 2011)

hammerlogging said:


> considering I don't know, I sure as heck should have stayed out of it.



Thats the fun of these type of threads. Its mostly BS! I don't think anyone really knows for sure. Sounded right to me though. Regardless of a solid 80-90 cube wood block a cord is 4x4x8 with minimal air space. The air space is included in the cord. There are no fractions or decimals or precise numbers. Its like hands for measuring horses or bra sizes. Now how many feet in a rod or a league?


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## tbow388 (Dec 14, 2011)

*Cord*

If a Cord in 128 Cubic feet. How much is a string of wood? Or better yet how much is a cable of wood? Or maybe a chain of wood?

I have been blessed by being a smart ass!!!


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## Sport Faller (Dec 14, 2011)

tbow388 said:


> If a Cord in 128 Cubic feet. How much is a string of wood? Or better yet how much is a cable of wood? Or maybe a chain of wood?
> 
> I have been blessed by being a smart ass!!!



1 string of wood = .467 cord
1 cable of wood = 1 .294 cord
1 chain of wood = 1.77 cord

ones you forgot
1 choker of wood = .78 cord
1 hand of wood = usually promised by the seller as between 8-10 inches but is usually about 5-6 upon delivery

how's that for smartassed :hmm3grin2orange:


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## Samlock (Dec 14, 2011)

PJM said:


> 1 standard cord = 128 cu. ft.
> 1 cord (wood) ~ 90 cu. ft.
> 1 cu. ft. ~ 5.79 boardfeet
> 
> 1 cord (wood) ~ 520 boardfeet



Ok, thanks. 

I need to convert that to metrics just to get a picture:

1 standard cord (wood+air+bark+fart) = 3,6 cubic meters
1 cord wood = 2,5 cubic meters (approx.)
1 cubic meter = 0,16 board feet (approx.)

I'll make a note by my desk, so I'll be able to follow the stories here.


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## 137cc (Dec 15, 2011)

bitzer said:


> Where is the 90 cubic feet coming from? I mean how are you figuring that? There is no way there is a 30% loss for air. No matter how you slice it 128 cubic feet is a cord. You just need more than that to get you there. Also I don't mean to turn this into a math equation, but 1 cubic foot equals 12 board feet. A board foot is 1" x 12" x 12". So in a cubic foot you have 12" x 12" x 12"= 12 bf. 12 bf x 128 cubic feet (volume of cord) = 1536 bf.


1 cubic foot DOESN'T equal 12 board feet. Don't feel bad though, this is a common mistake. In real life it comes in around 4-8 bf per cubic foot. Board foot scaling systems have kerf allowances that are based off of old milling technology(100+ years ago). 

A cord is the amount of stacked wood(split or rounds) that fits in 128 cubic feet. There is no exact conversion because not all wood rounds are the same size. Forestryworks is right when he says around 80-90 cubic feet. 

Remember a cord and a board foot are not actual measures of volumes, they are approximations. This why you cannot do simple conversions with them.


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## bitzer (Dec 15, 2011)

137cc said:


> 1 cubic foot DOESN'T equal 12 board feet. Don't feel bad though, this is a common mistake. In real life it comes in around 4-8 bf per cubic foot. Board foot scaling systems have kerf allowances that are based off of old milling technology(100+ years ago).
> 
> A cord is the amount of stacked wood(split or rounds) that fits in 128 cubic feet. There is no exact conversion because not all wood rounds are the same size. Forestryworks is right when he says around 80-90 cubic feet.
> 
> Remember a cord and a board foot are not actual measures of volumes, they are approximations. This why you cannot do simple conversions with them.



Pretty sure I said that about arbitrary measurements around post 23. A cord is 4x4x8 with minimal air space. The actual board footage is whatever the mill wants to pay that day.


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## redheadwoodshed (Dec 15, 2011)

And yall ain't even got to the rick and facecord yet.They beat this horse pretty regular on the firewood forum, and it's always lots of fun!:smile2:


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## logbutcher (Dec 15, 2011)

....haven't yet got to the Canadian Cord, or the Bush Cord, the infinite variations of the Face Cord ( who's face ? how long ? ). 
Then we have the famous Rick, the Bed-of-My-Pickup-Cord, a Thrown Cord,.............

The sad thing is everyone believes that their ersatz cord is the right one. 

In Maine the cord was standard as 4' rounds of pulpwood: a "pile" or "stack" measuring 4' X 4" X 8'. It's been weight measured for decades, sold at the mill green.

Ready for a drink ? This can drive you to ___.


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## slowp (Dec 15, 2011)

I think you all are ready to become timber sale planners now......


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## Samlock (Dec 16, 2011)

bitzer said:


> Pretty sure I said that about arbitrary measurements around post 23. A cord is 4x4x8 with minimal air space. The actual board footage is whatever the mill wants to pay that day.



Now I finally got it!


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## 4xrpm4x (Dec 18, 2011)

Buying Firewood? Don't Get Burned - Measurement Canada

In Ontario when you buy a fuel wood permit, you pay the OMNR By the "bush cord" you will be removing from the land. A "bush cord" is an illegal unit of measure in Canada. 

The cheapest fuel wood permit you can purches is $30 for 6.443m3 of wood. But, because most weekend wood gatherers don't know what 6.443m3 of wood looks like, they have a bush cord to cubic meters conversion chart that the office uses to charge you the apropreate amount. 

Does that make sense to any of you? 
Spend $30 and cut as much as you want seams to be the going practice around here.


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