# chinese chainsaw - any questions?



## chargrille (Apr 10, 2009)

I have just received a chinese chainsaw in order to assess quality, safety and efficency etc. I am aware of the posted threads re imports but wanted to access the saw before rubbishing them.

Saw is 62cc, stihl/shindaiwa clone, 24 inch bar
Retail us$71-, china port us$17

Anyone got any requests for specific tests, mechanical analysis etc?

Saw will be tested in stock form prior to modding.

alll the best


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## Clarkbug (Apr 10, 2009)

chargrille said:


> I have just received a chinese chainsaw in order to assess quality, safety and efficency etc. I am aware of the posted threads re imports but wanted to access the saw before rubbishing them.
> 
> Saw is 62cc, stihl/shindaiwa clone, 24 inch bar
> Retail us$71-, china port us$17
> ...




Post some pictures first, just of what you can, what things look like from the outside (and the inside if you can actually take anything apart without major hassle)


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## PB (Apr 10, 2009)

$17 at the China port!? How is that possible?


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## stinkbait (Apr 10, 2009)

Pics please! What the name of the saw?


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## chargrille (Apr 10, 2009)

I will photo the swaw then partially strip down and photo, plus comment on specific components. No hassle to spend time in the shed playing with saws!!!

Price is low due to typical chinese manufacturing approach. Whether it is right or wrong is debateable, but covered in many threads


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## chargrille (Apr 10, 2009)

hi stinker!

will post make later today. it's 4.20 am here

take speed for adhd, so sleep pattern is weird!


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## Clarkbug (Apr 10, 2009)

chargrille said:


> I will photo the swaw then partially strip down and photo, plus comment on specific components. No hassle to spend time in the shed playing with saws!!!
> 
> Price is low due to typical chinese manufacturing approach. Whether it is right or wrong is debateable, but covered in many threads



Great, thanks for spending the time to show us all! Im curious what 17 dollars worth of chainsaw looks like....


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## GASoline71 (Apr 10, 2009)

How is Stihl and Shindaiwa together as a clone?

Gary


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## chargrille (Apr 10, 2009)

well, the saw looks a bit like a stihl, perhaps a bit smaller than 038, but not sure of model. instruction book says "refer to your local Shindaiwa dealer for service" so I think they have copied a shinny hand book! unfortunately I am not familiar with shinny models. 

Eitherway I will post pics later today

thanksfor the interest


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## JBuck (Apr 10, 2009)

I could see $17. I used to work for a importer of chinese motorcycles (read schucks and the like). We paid something like $75-$100 per unit and sold them for $650-$1000. My boss, the owner, would brag about the 1000% markups. Then when we sold parts it was even more insane. We would buy parts in bulk for $0.05 per unit and sell them for $19.99. Big profit margins if you would buy enough units to fill a shipping container.


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## barneyrb (Apr 10, 2009)

chargrille said:


> I have just received a chinese chainsaw in order to assess quality, safety and efficency etc. I am aware of the posted threads re imports but wanted to access the saw before rubbishing them.
> 
> Saw is 62cc, stihl/shindaiwa clone, 24 inch bar
> Retail us$71-, china port us$17
> ...



why??????


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## chargrille (Apr 10, 2009)

you're right 

e.g. complete new engine for 038;-barrell, piston, crank, rings, bearings, all gaskets etc, with enfused chrome liner retail here us$85.

same thing in bulk (100 units), price at wharf is us$16

have used the above and saw is better than when new!
Not sure about long term though

anyway, suns up - time to take pics


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## chargrille (Apr 10, 2009)

hi barney

cos I'm interested in chainsaws?


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## BuddhaKat (Apr 10, 2009)

Yes, I'd like to see a squish test.


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## chargrille (Apr 10, 2009)

hello mr b kat.

Just so i'm sure, is squish the compression at T.D.C. or the gap between top of piston and internal roof of the barrel at T.D.C.?


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## tdi-rick (Apr 10, 2009)

chargrille said:


> hello mr b kat.
> 
> Just so i'm sure, is squish the compression at T.D.C. or the gap between top of piston and internal roof of the barrel at T.D.C.?



Yes, the squish clearance is the distance between the top of the piston and the outer edges of the combustion chamber (squish band)
Measured with a piece of soft solder and miced.


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## chargrille (Apr 10, 2009)

easy! will do in a couple of days- will be useful to know when calculating how much to take off the barrell. I hope that if I can get the measurements of squish, port volume, port height etc. that a kind sole will suggest mod detail

thanks for your interest


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## Mad Professor (Apr 10, 2009)

I bet the piston and cylinder are as round as a beer bottle, the bearings as concentric as child's marbles, and the metals as good as used Coor's and Bud cans!!!


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## edisto (Apr 10, 2009)

chargrille said:


> Anyone got any requests for specific tests, mechanical analysis etc?



What happens when you pull the starter chord?


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## Fishhead (Apr 10, 2009)

Yes true we all said that about Toyota's in NASCAR....ooopppsss we were dead wrong. But I'm also interested in seeing how a 75 dollar saw holds up.


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## chargrille (Apr 10, 2009)

well,prof, you may be right. I know that china buys up loads of srap metal to recycle! just a thought though, mercedes Use the same -scrap metal- for their car bodies. I guess that modding will really push any weaknesses, that makes it a destruction test. what fun!


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## chargrille (Apr 10, 2009)

edisto has the inside line! went to start it and the chain turns. perhaps it has no inertia clutch. will investigate further

cheers


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## chargrille (Apr 10, 2009)

yes fishy, me too. thats why!


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## spankrz (Apr 10, 2009)

this saw is guaranteed destruction in the near future



::
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(thumbs up)


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## spankrz (Apr 10, 2009)

chargrille said:


> edisto has the inside line! Went to start it and the chain turns. Perhaps it has no inertia clutch. Will investigate further
> 
> cheers



lol


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## chargrille (Apr 10, 2009)

More thoughts.....

stihl makes lots of components in their chinese factory, as do honda. I wonder if they source better metal?

also, it was the genuine stihl parts that failed in my 038m- a supposed un-breakable saw & looked after by a cad owner


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## dingeryote (Apr 10, 2009)

chargrille,

Thanks for doin' this!!

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## chargrille (Apr 10, 2009)

hey it's fun and costs $71, and no risk of sexually transmitted disease!!!


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## Mad Professor (Apr 10, 2009)

chargrille said:


> More thoughts.....
> 
> stihl makes lots of components in their chinese factory, as do honda. I wonder if they source better metal?
> 
> also, it was the genuine stihl parts that failed in my 038m- a supposed un-breakable saw & looked after by a cad owner



Seriously, thanks for being the sacrificial lamb.

What crapped out on your 038? All the ones I've torn down have been bad gassed/raw gassed , except a 038S I'm working on now, it had a bottom bearing/cage crap out and ruin the top end too. 

I'm not sure/have examined if non-OEM parts were used but the crank looked like it was left outside, for a month in the rain.


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## tdi-rick (Apr 10, 2009)

chargrille said:


> More thoughts.....
> 
> stihl makes lots of components in their chinese factory, as do honda. I wonder if they source better metal?
> 
> <snip>



I'd imagine they have certification processes in place to verify materials as they arrive at factories, all these large organisations would.

Case in point, the FIL is the Chairman of a largeish engineering company here and they buy their metal stamping machines from Taiwan. He claims they make the best metal stamping machines in the world ATM, and have done for the last ten years. His company is the Australian agents for a number of German manufacturers in the robotics and tool making industries, and has contacts from the US through the UK and Europe, so they aren't limited or blinded to who or where they buy from. (and most all the steel they use for die making is Swedish)

Forgot to add, nice to see another Landy owner on here. Unimformed and I have Defenders.


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## BuddhaKat (Apr 10, 2009)

chargrille said:


> hello mr b kat.
> 
> Just so i'm sure, is squish the compression at T.D.C. or the gap between top of piston and internal roof of the barrel at T.D.C.?


Nah, I was thinking more along the lines of the thickness when squished between a truck tire and the ground. :hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


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## chargrille (Apr 10, 2009)

hello mr m.prof

yes, clutch side bearing disintegrated, results were horrible. saw was made in brazil, don't know if that has a bearing on things! but the result after rebuild is an awesome saw. I cant say what the longivity will be though. I was told that chinese barrels only chrome plate, as opposed to infused liner. however this was an infused liner.

brand was sueo, turns out to be a wholly owned subsiduary of hitachi- a respected brand?

hmmm roast lamb and mint sauce for dinner!!!


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## tdi-rick (Apr 10, 2009)

chargrille said:


> <snip>
> 
> hmmm roast lamb and mint sauce for dinner!!!



Mate, that'd be lost on the US crowd, it seems only the Aussies/Kiwis and maybe Poms appreciate a good roast lamb.


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## chargrille (Apr 10, 2009)

yes mr t rick, i have a dual addiction issue!

or maybe triple, as i love honda stuff. (i am rebuilding a f90 rotary hoe- v twin deisel as well as a cb500 four)

oh, and i forgot beer!

and smokes


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## chargrille (Apr 10, 2009)

mr b cat

when it comes down to the line, could you really suggest killing a saw when you can see the whites of their casings?


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## Mad Professor (Apr 10, 2009)

tdi-rick said:


> Mate, that'd be lost on the US crowd, it seems only the Aussies/Kiwis and maybe Poms appreciate a good roast lamb.



Love lamb chops w/mint but it's good friday here, my Dad was English/Irish, Mom Polish (Both very catholic) .......doing a Poseidon's platter tonite: clams , shrimp, scallops, fish, calimari w/white sauce over pasta. Add in some garlic bread w/salad.

Dad loved lamb chops/roast w/mint sauce..........

Cheers to the down unders!!!


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## chargrille (Apr 10, 2009)

mr m prof, thats the way! i lived in connecticut for 5 years, loved the food. Awesome portions and taste. I have delayed the analysis of chinese saw in order to cook!!! maybe i am cad deficient. back on-line in 5 hours


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## chargrille (Apr 10, 2009)

oh and i had a job ferrying fresh fish, scallops etc from boston fish markets to stratford, conn!


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## rms61moparman (Apr 10, 2009)

tdi-rick said:


> Mate, that'd be lost on the US crowd, it seems only the Aussies/Kiwis and maybe Poms appreciate a good roast lamb.




Bu!!$#it!!!

I will be on a lamb roast with mint jelly like a setting hen on a housecat!!!!!


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## catman963 (Apr 10, 2009)

OK... where are the PICS!?? I keep checking back for them!! opcorn:


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## stihl sawing (Apr 10, 2009)

Is it heavy enough to hold a 25 foot boat in rough waters<a href="http://www.sweetim.com/s.asp?im=gen&lpver=3&ref=11" target="_blank"><img src="http://cdn.content.sweetim.com/sim/cpie/emoticons/000202EE.gif" border=0 ></a>.


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## dingeryote (Apr 10, 2009)

Roast lamb&Mint sauce?....Lost on the crowd here????

Look. It's dead critter done up proper. What could get lost?

Y'all misjudge the regular folks here.

It's the city folks and wierdos on the coasts here, that eat what food eats, NOT the rest of us!!!

Lamb is just dadgum expensive here, or we would be eating more of it.

Chops cut off the hock while still bleeding, and hitting the grill while still twitching is a TREAT!!! LOL!!

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## PasoRoblesJimmy (Apr 10, 2009)

*Is a Chi-Com chainsaw bulletproof?*

Will this Chi-Com chainsaw pass the bullet test? Can a bullet from Canadian Snipers turn a bad chainsaw into a good one? I'm thankful that these Canadians are fighting on our side.

Canadian Snipers - Making a Good Taliban
http://www.viddler.com/explore/jpozadzides/videos/26/

opcorn:

P.S. An Armenian in my area cooks a barbecued leg of lamb that will melt in your mouth.


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## Gologit (Apr 10, 2009)

Take that saw and put it in some wood. Run the living hell out of it. Keep track of the hours run. Let us know.


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## tdi-rick (Apr 10, 2009)

LOL, OK you fella's have convinced me about your love of lamb.

I remember reading that it's hardly eaten in the US as there was a WTO tariff case against the US govt back in '01 to try and get access to your market with the really good, well priced stuff from here and NZ.


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## rms61moparman (Apr 11, 2009)

tdi-rick said:


> LOL, OK you fella's have convinced me about your love of lamb.
> 
> I remember reading that it's hardly eaten in the US as there was a WTO tariff case against the US govt back in '01 to try and get access to your market with the really good, well priced stuff from here and NZ.




Yeah'

This country is full of dum basses who don't know what is good and don't realize what they are missing!!


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## dingeryote (Apr 11, 2009)

tdi-rick said:


> LOL, OK you fella's have convinced me about your love of lamb.
> 
> I remember reading that it's hardly eaten in the US as there was a WTO tariff case against the US govt back in '01 to try and get access to your market with the really good, well priced stuff from here and NZ.




LOL!!!!
YUP!!!

Your sheep guys were trying to crack into a market that dosn't exist and thought our guys were bieng protectionist...it got kinda prissy on both sides.
Bottom line was that it wasn't worth it, cuz most folks here don't have a taste for it anyway. LOL!!!

But get out in the sticks a ways, and folks eat Goats and sheep, and Rabbit, and whatever hit the bumper on the way home.


Is that saw running yet?

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## windthrown (Apr 11, 2009)

tdi-rick said:


> Mate, that'd be lost on the US crowd, it seems only the Aussies/Kiwis and maybe Poms appreciate a good roast lamb.



Lamb lover here... freezer is full of the stuff (home grown) and I cannot get enough of it. But then, I used to live on a sheep ranch. I have to agree that the US is not a big lamb-eating place in general. Consumption here has been on the decline for years. OryGun is a big sheep producing state though. 

Also, leave the mint jelly at the store. Use lots of fresh garlic, salt, pepper and rosemary.


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## windthrown (Apr 11, 2009)

Oh, and before you crank up that Chinese knock-off chainsaw, is it possible for someone stateside to get a life insurance policy on you? :greenchainsaw:


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## eyolf (Apr 11, 2009)

Eating lamb (or mutton)?

I know 2 grown men who make a face and pretend they're not hungry when lamb is on the table. Yet these same men will snarf down half a rangy, tough pronghorn that layed in the prairie sun for 4 hours before being gutted and cooled.

I can take or leave the mint sauce, but leg of lamb on the grill is about as good as it gets. Lots better than a tough old pronghorn. Those of us who don't like mutton (or goat) probably haven't really tried it.


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## PasoRoblesJimmy (Apr 11, 2009)

windthrown said:


> Lamb lover here... freezer is full of the stuff (home grown) and I cannot get enough of it. But then, I used to live on a sheep ranch. I have to agree that the US is not a big lamb-eating place in general. Consumption here has been on the decline for years. OryGun is a big sheep producing state though.
> 
> Also, leave the mint jelly at the store. Use lots of fresh garlic, salt, pepper and rosemary.



:agree2: 
Lamb cooked in a proper manner with proper spices doesn't need Mint Jelly. Lamb isn't always on display in our grocery stores. However, it is available when we ask for it. It disappears from our dinner plates really fast. We're also keeping our feet warm in sheepskin-lined boots and slippers.


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## windthrown (Apr 11, 2009)

True story: When I was living on the sheep ranch we were always trying to drum up lamb sales. I would bring a giant cooler up here to the Portland metro area filled with lamb cuts and deliver it to customers that had ordered it. I always brought up an extra leg or roast to take to my brother's, and we'd have a BBQ. He and I were raised on lamb. Anyway, we had a lamb BBQ and my nephew and his GF were there. They had both never had lamb before in their lives! We and they were dumbfounded. Never? They gobbled down the lamb like it was the last thing that they were ever going to eat in their lives. My nephew asked why he had never had lamb before, and he was obviously fuming that his mom had never cooked it. She always cooked beef, beef and more beef. No lamb, and no fish. Sad that. Typical in the US though. 

Even with Oregon being a large lamb producing state, lamb here is hard to get. Costo carries it. The Safeway near here has it in the meat case, but usually only on Fridays. Two weeks ago they mis-labeled some lamb chops as pork cutlets for $3 a pound. I grabbed all that they had left and we snarfed it down. Even with a freezer full of lamb, I will buy it at that price.


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## rmh3481 (Apr 11, 2009)

What kind of carb?

What kind of chain?

Cold Compression PSI?


Thanks,
Bob


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## PasoRoblesJimmy (Apr 11, 2009)

windthrown said:


> True story: When I was living on the sheep ranch we were always trying to drum up lamb sales. I would bring a giant cooler up here to the Portland metro area filled with lamb cuts and deliver it to customers that had ordered it. I always brought up an extra leg or roast to take to my brother's, and we'd have a BBQ. He and I were raised on lamb. Anyway, we had a lamb BBQ and my nephew and his GF were there. They had both never had lamb before in their lives! We and they were dumbfounded. Never? They gobbled down the lamb like it was the last thing that they were ever going to eat in their lives. My nephew asked why he had never had lamb before, and he was obviously fuming that his mom had never cooked it. She always cooked beef, beef and more beef. No lamb, and no fish. Sad that. Typical in the US though.
> 
> Even with Oregon being a large lamb producing state, lamb here is hard to get. Costo carries it. The Safeway near here has it in the meat case, but usually only on Fridays. Two weeks ago they mis-labeled some lamb chops as pork cutlets for $3 a pound. I grabbed all that they had left and we snarfed it down. Even with a freezer full of lamb, I will buy it at that price.



It is possible that lamb could profit from clever advertising and marketing. I remember when turkey was eaten mainly during Thanksgiving and Christmas. In the 1960s, the turkey growers got together and started advertising and marketing turkey as a healthy alternative to beef, chicken and pork. Today, turkey is available, accepted and popular all year long.


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## windthrown (Apr 11, 2009)

PasoRoblesJimmy said:


> It is possible that lamb could profit from clever advertising and marketing. I remember when turkey was eaten mainly during Thanksgiving and Christmas. In the 1960s, the turkey growers got together and started advertising and marketing turkey as a healthy alternative to beef, chicken and pork. Today, turkey is available, accepted and popular all year long.



Oh, no question about it. "Beef, its what's for dinner," was a very highly successful ad campaign. The sheep industry is not nearly as well organized as are cattlemen, and in fact lamb sales and consumption have been dropping for years now in the US, and even in Oregon. Wool sales are not much better. Also scrapie has become a big issue, and in the US they can no longer feed lamb slaughter remains to cattle, like they did for years before. There is zero proof that scrapie leads to mad cow disease, but it does not matter. The prions may cross over, or may not. When we had our lambs slaughtered, we had to deal with the remains ourselves. No one would take it, and in many meat packing plants, they cannot run lamb and beef at the same time. Slaughter places up here do not lake lamb at all, so you have to go farther south into the Willamette Valley to get any lambs butchered here.


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## BuddhaKat (Apr 11, 2009)

chargrille said:


> mr b cat
> 
> when it comes down to the line, could you really suggest killing a saw when you can see the whites of their casings?


 Well, not if it were a real saw. :greenchainsaw:


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## chargrille (Apr 11, 2009)

does a brand name make a real saw real?


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## dingeryote (Apr 11, 2009)

chargrille said:


> does a brand name make a real saw real?




And if a real saw backfires in the woods alone, does it make a sound?

We need a Shrubbery!!


Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## tdi-rick (Apr 11, 2009)

windthrown said:


> <snip>
> Use lots of fresh garlic, salt, pepper and rosemary.



ahh, now yer talking Windy 

Lamb is very well marketed here although ours and the Kiwis per capita consumption is probably the highest in the world.
Years ago a famous TV ad here had a girl win a contest on the wireless yet knocked back a date with Tom Cruise for her Mum's lamb roast. The actress was a young Naomi Watts, best mate to Nicole Kidman and long before either had met the real Tom Cruise. Maybe Nicole should've listened....... 

BTW, I wouldn't let it be known too much about the sheep farming, incase we all start thinking your like those Kiwi's 

I used to run a cattle property, and I've heard all the poddy calf jokes there are. 

Any pics yet chargrille ?

The local small engine repairer bought a small consignment of Chinese saws to flog, but wasn't overly impressed and won't repeat the exercise, not when the locals are used to Stihl, Husky and Dolmar, even if half the time they are only a Farm Boss. I had a quick squiz and external casting quality wasn't bad, (aluminium, not Mag) but it was a heavy little sucker for the capacity and used a Walbro carby, but can't remember the model.


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## dingeryote (Apr 11, 2009)

tdi-rick said:


> ahh, now yer talking Windy
> 
> BTW, I wouldn't let it be known too much about the sheep farming, incase we all start thinking your like those Kiwi's
> 
> I used to run a cattle property, and I've heard all the poddy calf jokes there are.




But we all know how Golf was invented.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## BuddhaKat (Apr 11, 2009)

chargrille said:


> does a brand name make a real saw real?


Well they all have a brand name, I'm just going on about Chinese knockoff's. Chinese engineering, materials and manufacturing are all lacking. Their main objective is to make something that looks like something else that another company spent the time and expense to develop, for the lowest price possible. Their objective isn't to produce quality, it's to copy something that's successful and undercut the OEM by confusing consumers.

I don't have to test a Chinese Stihl knockoff to know that it's not going to hold up, it won't have the power or performance of the top brands, and the overall quality will be sub-standard.


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## dingeryote (Apr 11, 2009)

BuddhaKat said:


> Well they all have a brand name, I'm just going on about Chinese knockoff's. Chinese engineering, materials and manufacturing are all lacking. Their main objective is to make something that looks like something else that another company spent the time and expense to develop, for the lowest price possible. Their objective isn't to produce quality, it's to copy something that's successful and undercut the OEM by confusing consumers.
> 
> I don't have to test a Chinese Stihl knockoff to know that it's not going to hold up, it won't have the power or performance of the top brands, and the overall quality will be sub-standard.



If NOT unsafe, and potentially mass labeling ALL saws a liability in the herd mentality of our litigious society.

Lawn Darts anyone?
Three wheeled ATV's?

The last thing we need is the EPA AND CPSC cracking down on all saws because howeowners are getting chewed up by :censored: Chineese saws that are made with NO respect/regard to the unwitting consumer.

I ain't a Stihl fanboy, but this is the same as selling poison coated cookware IMHO and needs to be stopped by direct action politically.
China is killing us with this sort of stuff.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## TimberMcPherson (Apr 11, 2009)

Last time I was in that states and canuckland I talked to a few people about beef and lamb consumption. Alot said they didnt eat lamb and thought NZ and Aus beef was fed weird things. The US beef industry is all powerful, NZ has been shut out of markets so often is not funny.

Our family farm produced bulls for export meat. We raised them just like most farmers in NZ do. Because NZ is temperate we never had to bring in feed, they dont need to sleep inside or be lot fed. They only got grain for a month in there lives when we were weening them off milk. 
Heres what they got fed

Grass
Silage cut from grass on the farm

Thats it. Sheep- the same although maybe more hay.

Good luck with that chinese saw, alot of the chinese stuff I come across is inconsistant, some parts seem like its been machined by a craftsman and then others look like they were cast by an uneducated drunk using a sandpit and blowtorch. Working on the scooters and motorcycles they "make" can be quite an education.


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## Fishhead (Apr 11, 2009)

Your right about China killing us with all this cheap knockoff stuff. Is there a saw made in the USA?


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## tdi-rick (Apr 11, 2009)

TimberMcPherson said:


> <snip>
> Heres what they got fed
> 
> Grass
> ...



And that's all we, and the majority here feed.
Feed lots are appearing more, but it's only the last six weeks they are getting grain fed. Export markets and carcass scoring is determining this, as you get consistent fat levels. 
The Japanese in particular require heavily marbled Wagyu, the US pretty heavy marbling and the Euro market (the most stringent of all in regards to certification of source ) rather leaner and so generally range fed is OK.

The AG sectors in all countries tend to put around a lot of BS to protect their own patch. 
The funniest I remember is the Japanese beef industry claiming Oz beef tasted like grass as it was mostly range fed.  
Fact is the stuff from our region is less contaminated than almost anywhere else in the world. 
Occasionally you have cock-ups like when some here started to feed cotton seed waste, that just happened to be laced with endosulfan from cropping..... 

FWIW, our old cull bulls (as in Oz) went to the US for the hamburger market to give the meat some colour as the grain fed US stuff isn't red enough.
Funny but true.


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## tdi-rick (Apr 11, 2009)

Fishhead said:


> Your right about China killing us with all this cheap knockoff stuff. Is there a saw made in the USA?



Some of the Stihls are assembled in the US, but it's still a German owned company, and Oregon make bars and chain there, and Carlton and Windsor chain is still made there too.


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## cmarti (Apr 11, 2009)

tdi-rick said:


> Mate, that'd be lost on the US crowd, it seems only the Aussies/Kiwis and maybe Poms appreciate a good roast lamb.



Not so fast my friend, the leg is defrosting in the fridge awaiting it's Easter fate.
Yes, a rack of lamb and mint jelly, here in the cultural wasteland of central Ohio.:jawdrop:


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## limelakephoto (Apr 11, 2009)

Fishhead said:


> Your right about China killing us with all this cheap knockoff stuff. Is there a saw made in the USA?



A bunch of ECHO products are assembled/made in the United States of America ! I would rather support my brothers in the USA than anywhere else.


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## Fishhead (Apr 11, 2009)

> A bunch of ECHO products are assembled/made in the United States of America ! I would rather support my brothers in the USA than anywhere else.



Right on this is the whole problem with this country. Forigen dependent. Its real hard to get alot of things made in the USA. Ill look into the echo.....


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## spike60 (Apr 11, 2009)

chargrille said:


> instruction book says "refer to your local Shindaiwa dealer for service"



Well, the Shinny dealers ought to get a good laugh out of that.


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## weimedog (Apr 11, 2009)

Pictures are where? How about a video comparison with "dust" in the airfilter vs. a Stihl or set down on the pavement next to a Stihl to see which one vibrates more!


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## olyeller (Apr 11, 2009)

windthrown said:


> Lamb lover here... freezer is full of the stuff (home grown) and I cannot get enough of it. But then, I used to live on a sheep ranch. I have to agree that the US is not a big lamb-eating place in general. Consumption here has been on the decline for years. OryGun is a big sheep producing state though.
> 
> Also, leave the mint jelly at the store. Use lots of fresh garlic, salt, pepper and rosemary.




Guys, this is one of the main reasons I cut oak wood, to slow-roast leg of lamb on the Weber kettle as fist-sized chunks of oak smolder away. Season as above, or sometimes I use a marinade of mustard, herbs and balsamic with a bit of brown sugar as well.


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## 2000ssm6 (Apr 11, 2009)

Veal, no. Deer, yes!!


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## 2000ssm6 (Apr 11, 2009)

spike60 said:


> Well, the Shinny dealers ought to get a good laugh out of that.



A Stihl guy can even chuckle out of that, LOL.


----------



## chargrille (Apr 11, 2009)

whoa guys!!!!!!

roast lamb led to red wine etc.etc.

sorry

pics will be 6 hours away, I promise

I will respond to all posts

Quite how socialist state manufacturing led to a debate on protein consumption in the western world is amusing.

I really appreciate all the ffeedback


----------



## rms61moparman (Apr 11, 2009)

2000ssm6 said:


> Veal, no. Deer, yes!!





Where did veal come into the conversation???

And how could you not like veal!!!


----------



## chargrille (Apr 11, 2009)

hello mr s. sawing.

It is not excessively heavy for the engine capacity

I will weigh accurately with fuel, oil and chain

thanks for input


----------



## chargrille (Apr 11, 2009)

thanks mr gogalit.

Will do as you suggest.

Got to strip, and photo first, though( and then the saw!)


----------



## chargrille (Apr 11, 2009)

no, mr dingeroyte

Due to strange chain turning when pulling starter, I will strip down first, then try starting.

thanx for input


----------



## chargrille (Apr 11, 2009)

mr. windy

I couldn't agree more! All the above + mint sauce is best


----------



## chargrille (Apr 11, 2009)

mr.3481

Saw has chinese carb, some are optioned with walbro

will photo

also some are optioned with oregon/carlton bar/chain combos

thanx for interest


----------



## chargrille (Apr 11, 2009)

oh!

will measure cold comp and post


----------



## chargrille (Apr 11, 2009)

mr dingeroyte

love the thought


----------



## chargrille (Apr 11, 2009)

hello mr trick

the market here is flooded with chinese saws( and chinese evrything else!)

I am in discussion with six chinese factories, and they offer various configurations, including labels. Not saying that I am definately importing, just investigating!


----------



## chargrille (Apr 11, 2009)

good morning mr b kat

spot on about the ethics

however, if you assume the product, you risk making an ass out of u and me!


----------



## Taxmantoo (Apr 11, 2009)

PlantBiologist said:


> $17 at the China port!? How is that possible?




Before Clinton, an SKS rifle was $15 at the factory (or about $35 for the distributor to buy it from the importer over here, more like $100-125 by the time it hit the end user's hands).
Seems like a 62cc saw would cost more to make than a cheap SKS.


----------



## chargrille (Apr 11, 2009)

hi mr. dingeroyte

Agree with all, but, I think the chinese have already eclipsed the former world superpowers. not a matter of 'if' but 'when'


----------



## chargrille (Apr 11, 2009)

hello timber mc

thanks for your input- the fact that the saw was missing a rubber and retaining web may indicate poor quality control/ inspection


----------



## chargrille (Apr 11, 2009)

hi weimdog

will do as you suggest- maybe stihl carb is auto compensating. dont know about chinese carb yet

will assess vibration subjectively

sorry, no video on phone cam.


----------



## chargrille (Apr 11, 2009)

hey olleyer

drowl....


----------



## Clarkbug (Apr 11, 2009)

Chargrille, 

It might be easier to follow your responses if you click on the "quote" button instead of the "reply" button. 

That way everyone will be able to see the text of the message you are replying to.


----------



## volks-man (Apr 11, 2009)

chargrille said:


> sorry
> 
> pics will be 6 hours away, I promise
> 
> ...




will 'bigfoot' be holding the saw in the pictures?


----------



## chargrille (Apr 11, 2009)

Clarkbug said:


> Chargrille,
> 
> It might be easier to follow your responses if you click on the "quote" button instead of the "reply" button.
> 
> That way everyone will be able to see the text of the message you are replying to.



what a great idea, that i had no idea how to do!

thanks


----------



## chargrille (Apr 11, 2009)

volks-man said:


> will 'bigfoot' be holding the saw in the pictures?



I know, I know. didn't mean to be saw tease!


----------



## Lugnutz (Apr 11, 2009)

chargrille said:


> no, mr dingeroyte
> 
> Due to strange chain turning when pulling starter, I will strip down first, then try starting.
> 
> thanx for input



I highly suggest for safety that you leave your clothes on when operating a chainsaw, even if it is a chinaman made unit :jawdrop:


----------



## chargrille (Apr 11, 2009)

Lugnutz said:


> I highly suggest for safety that you leave your clothes on when operating a chainsaw, even if it is a chinaman made unit :jawdrop:



lol!

after stripping down i might baste with garlic pepper and rosemary and jumpin a medium oven for 2 hours!!!


----------



## brokenbudget (Apr 11, 2009)

chargrille said:


> lol!
> 
> after stripping down i might baste with garlic pepper and rosemary and jumpin a medium oven for 2 hours!!!




will you have pics of it then?
no really, where are the pics?


----------



## chargrille (Apr 11, 2009)

brokenbudget said:


> will you have pics of it then?
> No really, where are the pics?


sorry they are so grainy, when the sun comes up i will try again
View attachment 95306

my gmc 37cc- same as redmax3800?
View attachment 95308

'real' 066 in background!
View attachment 95309

thats the brand
View attachment 95310


View attachment 95312


----------



## chargrille (Apr 11, 2009)

View attachment 95313


View attachment 95314

sorry
View attachment 95315

by selling you a shinny?
View attachment 95316


View attachment 95317


----------



## chargrille (Apr 11, 2009)

View attachment 95318


View attachment 95319


----------



## windthrown (Apr 11, 2009)

Does it recommend 32:1 oil? Most crappy tolerance knock-off saws do. 

Tsing Tao, its not just beer any more. Now its the chainsaw *and* the beer!


----------



## chargrille (Apr 11, 2009)

windthrown said:


> Does it recommend 32:1 oil? Most crappy tolerance knock-off saws do.
> 
> Tsing Tao, its not just beer any more. Now its the chainsaw *and* the beer!



sticker on saw says 25;1
manual says 30:1

stihl says 25:1 unless using stihl50:1 type oil
GMC says 34:1

I seem to be amassing a lot of fuel cans!


----------



## volks-man (Apr 11, 2009)

from the bar side that saw looks an awful lot like an echo.


----------



## chargrille (Apr 11, 2009)

volks-man said:


> from the bar side that saw looks an awful lot like an echo.



i'm not familiar with smaller echo's, maybe an echo fanatic might know?
thanks for the input.


----------



## windthrown (Apr 11, 2009)

chargrille said:


> sticker on saw says 25;1
> manual says 30:1
> 
> stihl says 25:1 unless using stihl50:1 type oil
> ...



Stihl here has dropped the _other brand _oil BS about the 25:1 oil thing. Any good JASO FC 100% synthetic oil will run fine in a Stihl at 50:1. I ran Mobil 1 2T until they stopped selling it here. Now I run Elf 2T JASO FC 100% synthetic oil in all my Stihls. Runs great. 

Amusing that knock-off saw has the conflict in oil ratios. Crappy tolerances even in their instructions.


----------



## chargrille (Apr 11, 2009)

windthrown said:


> Stihl here has dropped the _other brand _oil BS about the 25:1 oil thing. Any good JASO FC 100% synthetic oil will run fine in a Stihl at 50:1. I ran Mobil 1 2T until they stopped selling it here. Now I run Elf 2T JASO FC 100% synthetic oil in all my Stihls. Runs great.
> 
> Amusing that knock-off saw has the conflict in oil ratios. Crappy tolerances even in their instructions.



interesting point. If chinasaw reccomends 25:1, should it be ok on 50:1 JASO FC 100% synthetic?

and what about my generator(40:1, therefore 80:1)
and my GMC saw 34:1 to 68:1 etc?

oh! chinasaw is amagram of chainsaw!


----------



## dingeryote (Apr 11, 2009)

windthrown said:


> Stihl here has dropped the _other brand _oil BS about the 25:1 oil thing. Any good JASO FC 100% synthetic oil will run fine in a Stihl at 50:1. I ran Mobil 1 2T until they stopped selling it here. Now I run Elf 2T JASO FC 100% synthetic oil in all my Stihls. Runs great.
> 
> Amusing that knock-off saw has the conflict in oil ratios. Crappy tolerances even in their instructions.



LOL!!

They do NOT have a warranty plan, or a plan to have a warranty plan.

If the saw discombobulates itself, tell your shinny dealer you ran whatever ratio ya want!! He wont care either!!

Ain't a bad looking saw though..kinda fluffy and cute as saws go.LOL!!
Possibly made on tooling leftover from an obsolete shinny/Echo line?

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


----------



## tdi-rick (Apr 11, 2009)

Hi chargrille, 
good luck with the saw.
A mate bought a bunch of those Baumr AG ones sold on ebay here for re-sale and a few worked and he had some problems with some others. Fairly heavy but fairly well finished, looked like aluminium cylinders, not Mag. he reckons he won't repeat the exercise.

just as an FYI for everyone who might not have seen it, I posted this on another thread here yesterday. It gives you an idea of the number of manufacturers from the 'mainland' and the straight out counterfeiting that is happening......



> If you want to get into the importation game, here's a list of mainland suppliers. There's 165 on this list, not all would be manufacturers, some are accessory suppliers, but still...
> 
> http://www.alibaba.com/companies/125...y=CN&region=CN
> 
> ...



http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=96003


----------



## tdi-rick (Apr 11, 2009)

BTW, that looks like a Sugihara bar and the clutch side view looks like a Shinny from what I can see.
Have they copied a Shinny saw and bar and just altered the plastic a lot (easy to do on a moulding) around the air cleaner ?


----------



## ironray (Apr 11, 2009)

tdi-rick said:


> Mate, that'd be lost on the US crowd, it seems only the Aussies/Kiwis and maybe Poms appreciate a good roast lamb.


Hah! I love lamb. But. You gotta take a bite of lamb and then a bite of scallion. (drool)


----------



## chargrille (Apr 13, 2009)

tdi-rick said:


> BTW, that looks like a Sugihara bar and the clutch side view looks like a Shinny from what I can see.
> Have they copied a Shinny saw and bar and just altered the plastic a lot (easy to do on a moulding) around the air cleaner ?



Update.

Retailer has agreed to supply missing oil cap and rubber.

The chain rotated when starting. I checked clutch, and shoes are tight on the drum at rest. If this is a Shinny copy, then there is a thread about this problem, blaming wear due to age. Search shindaiwa clutch.
I stripped down clutch and all parts are clean and free
Without fitting 3 pronged backing plate, the clutch was free. 
As soon as the backing plate is fitted the shoes cannot retreat away from cover.

any ideas?


----------



## teacherman (Apr 13, 2009)

tdi-rick said:


> Hi chargrille,
> good luck with the saw.
> A mate bought a bunch of those Baumr AG ones sold on ebay here for re-sale and a few worked and he had some problems with some others. Fairly heavy but fairly well finished, looked like aluminium cylinders, not Mag. he reckons he won't repeat the exercise.
> 
> ...



The only reason this crap exists and persists is that people buy it. Stupidity has a half-life that is the envy of all but the most potent radioactive elements...... almost impossible to get rid of it once it takes hold. In fact, it grows like kudzu, and destroys much in its path..........

My inability to start a two year old Homelite Super 2 on a job in 1994 permanently cured me of cheap chainsaw syndrome....... I walk by that stuff and just shake my head. If you want a single-use saw, go rent one.

"Oh sell me down the Yellow River Valley...."


----------



## edisto (Apr 13, 2009)

teacherman said:


> Stupidity has a half-life that is the envy of all but the most potent radioactive elements...... almost impossible to get rid of it once it takes hold. In fact, it grows like kudzu, and destroys much in its path..........



That's why we need to go back to eating stupid people.


----------



## teacherman (Apr 13, 2009)

tdi-rick said:


> Mate, that'd be lost on the US crowd, it seems only the Aussies/Kiwis and maybe Poms appreciate a good roast lamb.



Nothing wrong with lamb, it's just that nasty old lamb they call "mutton" that permanently curdles the vital organs of taste and smell......

I hear camel ain't too bad.


----------



## teacherman (Apr 13, 2009)

edisto said:


> That's why we need to go back to eating stupid people.



Yeah but what if we actually are what we eat....?:greenchainsaw:


----------



## chargrille (Apr 13, 2009)

teacherman said:


> Yeah but what if we actually are what we eat....?:greenchainsaw:



at least with dodgy tools ,you can blame them and justify it!

Seeing that the clutch issue has been found on genuine shinnys, perhaps they copied so well, that they copied the original's faults?

by the way, try backstrap of lamp, cubed on skewers over a good fire!


----------



## chargrille (Apr 13, 2009)

tdi-rick said:


> Hi chargrille,
> good luck with the saw.
> A mate bought a bunch of those Baumr AG ones sold on ebay here for re-sale and a few worked and he had some problems with some others. Fairly heavy but fairly well finished, looked like aluminium cylinders, not Mag. he reckons he won't repeat the exercise.
> 
> ...



Yes, I saw them!

This saw is identical, bar the stickers. I notice that it has dual coil ignition, just like Echo's, and a stuck clutch, just like a Shinny!

Construction is generally good, allen keys for all body work. Barrel roof appears to be domed (I couldn't screw in a metal piston stop).

It would seem that there is no fast idle setting, but until I sort out the clutch I will not start.

Concencus so far seems to be that the parts are o.k., but quality control is variable

I am posting better pix next- sunny day!


----------



## edisto (Apr 13, 2009)

teacherman said:


> Yeah but what if we actually are what we eat....?



It still helps the problem...you just have to learn to eat while looking over your shoulder.


----------



## chargrille (Apr 13, 2009)

Clearer pix!View attachment 95456


View attachment 95457


----------



## chargrille (Apr 13, 2009)

View attachment 95458


View attachment 95459


View attachment 95460


----------



## chargrille (Apr 13, 2009)

tdi-rick said:


> BTW, that looks like a Sugihara bar and the clutch side view looks like a Shinny from what I can see.
> Have they copied a Shinny saw and bar and just altered the plastic a lot (easy to do on a moulding) around the air cleaner ?



Spot on rick!
A kindly person provided me with ipl for shinny 575. That was the 'host' design.


----------



## olyeller (Apr 13, 2009)

*Tidal wave coming*

Here's the deal guys: Remember that this is only the first shot across the bow. There's a tidal wave to follow shortly. The photos look like what a chainsaw should look like, and such appearances plus low, low price will be sufficient for many casual users. And the Chinese products will continue to improve as the flood grows.

This scenario already began a while back in the motorcycle and scooter industry here in the USA. And the major manufacturers are searching for ways to deal with/cooperate with the Chinese flood because they know it's not going away. Although they are very different in function, chainsaws and motorcycles are alike in some important ways. For example, there are professional users and very knowledgeable enthusiasts in both cases, plus a whole bunch of very casual users who do not run their machines very often and are not in tune with the nuances and more minute details of how things work and what goes into the engineering and execution of the design.

These casual users will be the unsuspecting prey of these first, poorly made efforts in chainsaws and motorcycles because of the pricing. But the Chinese-made products are not going to go away, and they will improve over time. Probably not to the level of a Stihl or Husky, or a Honda or Yamaha in the motorcycling arena, but they will improve enough that they will steal away market share and pose a temptation to dealers to take them aboard.

So be prepared for the flood, and in the meantime, support your favorite dealerships and vendors to help them survive the very real economic pressure they're going to feel now that these Chinese saws will undercut even the big-box crap.


----------



## mtfallsmikey (Apr 13, 2009)

stinkbait said:


> Pics please! What the name of the saw?



If it's a clone: Stidiawa?...


----------



## chargrille (Apr 13, 2009)

olyeller said:


> Here's the deal guys: Remember that this is only the first shot across the bow. There's a tidal wave to follow shortly. The photos look like what a chainsaw should look like, and such appearances plus low, low price will be sufficient for many casual users. And the Chinese products will continue to improve as the flood grows.
> 
> This scenario already began a while back in the motorcycle and scooter industry here in the USA. And the major manufacturers are searching for ways to deal with/cooperate with the Chinese flood because they know it's not going away. Although they are very different in function, chainsaws and motorcycles are alike in some important ways. For example, there are professional users and very knowledgeable enthusiasts in both cases, plus a whole bunch of very casual users who do not run their machines very often and are not in tune with the nuances and more minute details of how things work and what goes into the engineering and execution of the design.
> These casual users will be the unsuspecting prey of these first, poorly made efforts in chainsaws and motorcycles because of the pricing. But the Chinese-made products are not going to go away, and they will improve over time. Probably not to the level of a Stihl or Husky, or a Honda or Yamaha in the motorcycling arena, but they will improve enough that they will steal away market share and pose a temptation to dealers to take them aboard.
> ...




You're spot on as well. The new wave of saws is already much improved over earlier attempts.

Makes me wonder how far away cars are. Given the state of GMC, Ford and so on, plus the huge debt America has to china, a flood of dirt cheap cars could be the death nell.

I suppose any thread involving cheap imports is going to wander into politics!

I would rather focus on the analysis of the saw though!

cheers


----------



## chargrille (Apr 13, 2009)

mtfallsmikey said:


> If it's a clone: Stidiawa?...



I've seen clones of stihls with labels 'stillone'!


----------



## windthrown (Apr 13, 2009)

Actually they all will go away, and soon. 2010 EPA requirements will pretty much end all this nonsence. Until the Chinese copy the strato engines that is. I wonder what reed valves are gonna be like from China??? :monkey:

They will all have to be AV and EPA compliant. Only problem with that is that the really good Stihl, Husky and other saws will go away too. Even the MS361 and the 372xp are not EPA compliant! And they are going away by the end of this year. 



olyeller said:


> Here's the deal guys: Remember that this is only the first shot across the bow. There's a tidal wave to follow shortly. The photos look like what a chainsaw should look like, and such appearances plus low, low price will be sufficient for many casual users. And the Chinese products will continue to improve as the flood grows.
> 
> This scenario already began a while back in the motorcycle and scooter industry here in the USA. And the major manufacturers are searching for ways to deal with/cooperate with the Chinese flood because they know it's not going away. Although they are very different in function, chainsaws and motorcycles are alike in some important ways. For example, there are professional users and very knowledgeable enthusiasts in both cases, plus a whole bunch of very casual users who do not run their machines very often and are not in tune with the nuances and more minute details of how things work and what goes into the engineering and execution of the design.
> 
> ...


----------



## chargrille (Apr 14, 2009)

BuddhaKat said:


> Yes, I'd like to see a squish test.



Went to do one today, bu it appears that it has a domed roof. I could not use my metal piston stopper either. saw appears to be clone of Shinny 575. 

Any other q's?


----------



## chargrille (Apr 14, 2009)

chargrille said:


> Update.
> 
> Retailer has agreed to supply missing oil cap and rubber.
> 
> ...



Fault with clutch was inherited from Shinny! (serves them right for copying)
the oil pump teeth wern't aligned with the sprocket drive, causing the clutch assembly back plate to tighten on the drum. machined 1mm off back plate prongs just to be sure - problem fixed.


----------



## mtfallsmikey (Apr 14, 2009)

chargrille said:


> Fault with clutch was inherited from Shinny! (serves them right for copying)
> the oil pump teeth wern't aligned with the sprocket drive, causing the clutch assembly back plate to tighten on the drum. machined 1mm off back plate prongs just to be sure - problem fixed.



Will you hoist a big can of Foster's after the first cut?


----------



## mtfallsmikey (Apr 14, 2009)

mtfallsmikey said:


> If it's a clone: Stidiawa?...



Maybe...MS 575?


----------



## chargrille (Apr 14, 2009)

mtfallsmikey said:


> Will you hoist a big can of Foster's after the first cut?



I'm not averse to the odd Boags Draught!

But I will have to find the intermittent electrical fault first!

Who would have thought a new saw could be so much fun!


----------



## teacherman (Apr 14, 2009)

chargrille said:


> Fault with clutch was inherited from Shinny! (serves them right for copying)
> the oil pump teeth wern't aligned with the sprocket drive, causing the clutch assembly back plate to tighten on the drum. machined 1mm off back plate prongs just to be sure - problem fixed.



Well... is it worth it yet?


----------



## chargrille (Apr 14, 2009)

teacherman said:


> Well... is it worth it yet?



Luckily I enjoy playing with saws, for a new, inexperienced owner, 

and all these repairs are really allowing me to check out components etc


----------



## TRI955 (Apr 14, 2009)

I agree, it looks to be a copy of a 575/695 Shindaiwa. I'm sure Shindaiwa let the patents run out on those saws, so the Chinese copy them just like everything else. I would be interested in seeing if any parts would interchange as most parts for the Shindaiwa versions are obeslete.


----------



## tdi-rick (Apr 14, 2009)

mtfallsmikey said:


> Will you hoist a big can of Foster's after the first cut?



No one drinks that crap here, so they export it instead. 



chargrille said:


> I'm not averse to the odd Boags Draught!
> 
> <snip>



Mmmm, Boags......


----------



## chargrille (Apr 14, 2009)

TRI955 said:


> I agree, it looks to be a copy of a 575/695 Shindaiwa. I'm sure Shindaiwa let the patents run out on those saws, so the Chinese copy them just like everything else. I would be interested in seeing if any parts would interchange as most parts for the Shindaiwa versions are obeslete.



Having looked at 575 ipl i reckon every part so far is identical, including the manual (mentions shindaiwa 3 times). So thats clutch, chainbrake, oil pump, etc. however 575=57cc, chinasaw = 62cc/63.6cc

did 575 have dome top barrel?


----------



## briantutt (Apr 14, 2009)

chargrille said:


> More thoughts.....
> 
> stihl makes lots of components in their chinese factory, as do honda. I wonder if they source better metal?
> 
> also, it was the genuine stihl parts that failed in my 038m- a supposed un-breakable saw & looked after by a cad owner



Where I work we source chinese parts but we supply the raw material...


----------



## briantutt (Apr 14, 2009)

olyeller said:


> Here's the deal guys: Remember that this is only the first shot across the bow. There's a tidal wave to follow shortly. The photos look like what a chainsaw should look like, and such appearances plus low, low price will be sufficient for many casual users. And the Chinese products will continue to improve as the flood grows.
> 
> This scenario already began a while back in the motorcycle and scooter industry here in the USA. And the major manufacturers are searching for ways to deal with/cooperate with the Chinese flood because they know it's not going away. Although they are very different in function, chainsaws and motorcycles are alike in some important ways. For example, there are professional users and very knowledgeable enthusiasts in both cases, plus a whole bunch of very casual users who do not run their machines very often and are not in tune with the nuances and more minute details of how things work and what goes into the engineering and execution of the design.
> 
> ...



If anyone thinks a billion people don't have enough good engineers to outdo us if they want to I think we are kidding ourselves. Everyone employed in China for my parent company has a PHD engineering degree doing out of high school jobs...It's just a matter of time in my opinion.


----------



## barneyrb (Apr 14, 2009)

briantutt said:


> If anyone thinks a billion people don't have enough good engineers to outdo us if they want to I think we are kidding ourselves. Everyone employed in China for my parent company has a PHD engineering degree doing out of high school jobs...It's just a matter of time in my opinion.



Yeah, sorta scarry, Dad remembers what was first said about Japenese cars too. I think China is following in their (Japan) footsteps.


----------



## mtfallsmikey (Apr 15, 2009)

tdi-rick said:


> No one drinks that crap here, so they export it instead.
> 
> 
> 
> Mmmm, Boags......



I'll have to look for Boag's in the hoity-toity beverage store...is it exported? Sorry about the Foster's, I guess that's stereotyping you mates from down under...can't help it, must be the 12 hr. time difference!


----------



## K7NUT (Apr 15, 2009)

WOW, almost forgot what this thread was about!?

I've learned alot about Lamb, economics, politics, beer and chinese made crap! This has been fun!

opcorn:


----------



## mtfallsmikey (Apr 15, 2009)

K7NUT said:


> WOW, almost forgot what this thread was about!?
> 
> I've learned alot about Lamb, economics, politics, beer and chinese made crap! This has been fun!
> 
> opcorn:



And, from a fellow ham.....this saw is from BY land!


----------



## PasoRoblesJimmy (Apr 15, 2009)

briantutt said:


> If anyone thinks a billion people don't have enough good engineers to outdo us if they want to I think we are kidding ourselves. Everyone employed in China for my parent company has a PHD engineering degree doing out of high school jobs...It's just a matter of time in my opinion.



Right now the Chi-Com PhDs are working for cheaper wages. 
That will change when they learn to enjoy the Good Life.
PhD = Piled higher and deeper.


----------



## chargrille (Apr 15, 2009)

K7NUT said:


> WOW, almost forgot what this thread was about!?
> 
> I've learned alot about Lamb, economics, politics, beer and chinese made crap! This has been fun!
> 
> opcorn:



lol nice summary so far!


----------



## cmarti (Apr 15, 2009)

K7NUT said:


> WOW, almost forgot what this thread was about!?
> 
> I've learned alot about Lamb, economics, politics, beer and chinese made crap! This has been fun!
> 
> opcorn:




I think beer makes any topic more interesting


----------



## chargrille (Apr 15, 2009)

PasoRoblesJimmy said:


> Right now the Chi-Com PhDs are working for cheaper wages.
> That will change when they learn to enjoy the Good Life.
> 
> OH how true. But what then?
> ...


----------



## windthrown (Apr 15, 2009)

PasoRoblesJimmy said:


> Right now the Chi-Com PhDs are working for cheaper wages.
> That will change when they learn to enjoy the Good Life.
> PhD = Piled higher and deeper.



I have met the enemy from there though, and they are not 10 feet tall. They are as lazy as anyone else, and prone to corruption, beurocracy and stupid ideas. They lack originality and motivation. When I was at a company called Dasiy, we sold China 2 systems for CAD design. That was supposed to be the first pair of several hundred. Never happened. Turned out that they (the Chinese) tore down one to figure out all the parts, and left the other one whole to use as a template/working prototype. Then they mass produced them, without license to use in China. Not unlike these Stihl knock-offs; they use Stihl saws as a template and mass produce them. They do not do original design work, nor is the quality very high. TQM worked well in Japan, because of their culture. They also were handed the methods by some dumb Detroit people. I do not think that those methods will work in China. 

As for China, there is one glaring issue there that has yet to play out. What we call China is only a small subset of the country as a whole. We see and deal with the China that is in one of the Special Economic Zones. In those zreas, there are about 300 million people. They are in the have. Outside the Special Economic Zones are 800 million people. They are the have nots. Now, one has to wonder if keeping a vast majority of people in poverty is a working model for a dominant future for China. Its as if Mexico had 800 million people and they were part of the US. A source of cheap labor, often times left unpaid, living and building an environment that is toxic, and a government that is autocratic, beurocratic, socialist and well, communist. 

Probably the biggest complaint/comment that I have heard from Chinese that I have worked with is that there is an overall lack of beer available in China. Now I have to ask you, would you work in a place that did not have enough beer?


----------



## chargrille (Apr 15, 2009)

windthrown said:


> I have met the enemy from there though, and they are not 10 feet tall. They are as lazy as anyone else, and prone to corruption, beurocracy and stupid ideas. They lack originality and motivation. When I was at a company called Dasiy, we sold China 2 systems for CAD design. That was supposed to be the first pair of several hundred. Never happened. Turned out that they (the Chinese) tore down one to figure out all the parts, and left the other one whole to use as a template/working prototype. Then they mass produced them, without license to use in China. Not unlike these Stihl knock-offs; they use Stihl saws as a template and mass produce them. They do not do original design work, nor is the quality very high. TQM worked well in Japan, because of their culture. They also were handed the methods by some dumb Detroit people. I do not think that those methods will work in China.
> 
> As for China, there is one glaring issue there that has yet to play out. What we call China is only a small subset of the country as a whole. We see and deal with the China that is in one of the Special Economic Zones. In those zreas, there are about 300 million people. They are in the have. Outside the Special Economic Zones are 800 million people. They are the have nots. Now, one has to wonder if keeping a vast majority of people in poverty is a working model for a dominant future for China. Its as if Mexico had 800 million people and they were part of the US. A source of cheap labor, often times left unpaid, living and building an environment that is toxic, and a government that is autocratic, beurocratic, socialist and well, communist.
> 
> Probably the biggest complaint/comment that I have heard from Chinese that I have worked with is that there is an overall lack of beer available in China. Now I have to ask you, would you work in a place that did not have enough beer?



Great to have such informed input! And as for a shortfall in bodily fluids, what a nightmare.

As for the copying strategy China employes, It would seem that the big companies that gave away the designs are now suffering for not protecting their intellectual property. Is this another example of economic loss due to poor management of previously successful manufacturers?


----------



## windthrown (Apr 15, 2009)

chargrille said:


> Great to have such informed input! And as for a shortfall in bodily fluids, what a nightmare.
> 
> As for the copying strategy China employes, It would seem that the big companies that gave away the designs are now suffering for not protecting their intellectual property. Is this another example of economic loss due to poor management of previously successful manufacturers?



Well, that is an issue with sending stuff overseas to be machined and manufactured. If say, Forester builds a plant in China to make chainsaw bars, lo and behond, they are stamping out bars by the millions. Now, Foresters used to be pretty good bars. Now they all suck. So somewhere along the line something changed. The quality certainly dropped. So did the price. There are now thousands for sale on Ebay. 

One glaring issue that I noticed with China and India when I was an engineer was that they lacked management to make decisions. This was 'fixed' by moving management here in the US. However, that left a hole in the on site management. We sent stuff to India for development. Something I could have done in about 3 weeks took them 5 months to develop. And they were all wrong! They made assumptions and never called to verify anything. The Indians also had zero loyalty or ethics. One company that we sub-contracted with were pretending to work for us, when in reality they had all hired on at the company across the street in Banglador and were really working for them, while cashing the paychecks from us. Scams and more scams. BS and more BS. These two countries ("Chindia", as I call them) in particular also lack the infrastructire to expand. The roads there are really bad. Travel in and out takes forever. Phone service is bad, and the local utilities are also hugely problematic. Never mind the cultural issues with getting people to work. 

It is not all that different than when I was in San Diego working at General Dynamics. We set up a maquiladora in Tijuana to produce wiring harnesses for the F-16 fighter. It was all glitz and press with a bi-national effort, yadda yadda. Keep the Mexicans in Mexico working for the US. Well, they got $5 a day to work there, for a 10 hour day. Not bad for Mexico. They worked a split shift, becasue culturally they wanted the noon hours off for the daily siesta. OK. But the problems were that work ethics there were meaningless. One speed, no education, most could not read Spanish. The workers there would work for a few months, and then go home for a month. They also tended to train and then leave to come to the US for a 'real' job. The infrastructure there was useless as well. The power grid there was unstable. Water service there was off a few hours a day, and sometimes a few days a week. The quality was pure crap. We wound up having to fix all the wiring that was done there. Finally after all the BS and failed attempts, we moved the facility very unceremoniously to El Cajon, north of the border. We paid union workers $15 an hour to do the harnesses, and lo, they all worked when tested. If was actually CHEAPER to pay US union workers to do the job. Why? Becasue the quality had to be high. MIL-STD high. The reason military stuff is so expensive is that it all has to be tested, and WORK. Imagine that... actually has to work (scratching head). 

So we shall see. Seems that people are willing to pay less for crap rather than to pay more for quality. Sun Mocrosystems is on the skids becasue companies are not willing to pay for quality engineering desktop systems. They want to buy cheap PCs for their engineers. It may be the same with chainsaws. Why buy a Stihl 361 that can be fixed if it breaks for $600 when you can buy a Ching Dao crap saw for $60. If they break, just toss them and start up another new one. No issues with time and cost to fix them. No need to buy spare parts. Buy 10, and if 2 do not even work new, so what? Just toss them. Seems that a lot of loggers are of that mentality. They buy a new Stihl ot Husky every year, beat the crap out of them, and sell them used for half the value and buy a new one.


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## PasoRoblesJimmy (Apr 15, 2009)

Foreign manufacturing has a way of turning perfectly good products into junk. 

Consider the hidden or latent defects that are invisible to the naked eye.

Latent defects can injure, maim and kill!!!!

GM-AC-Delco parts formerly made in the USA, next in Mexico, and now in China degraded into pure crapola. Parts/components on GM vehicles should deteriorate even faster now that General Motors has been transformed into Government Motors.


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## cmarti (Apr 15, 2009)

The real question Windthrown........is what oil should I use in a Chinese saw


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## windthrown (Apr 15, 2009)

Tsing Tao!  ...Its a GaryGOO(TM) knock off!


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## Lakeside53 (Apr 15, 2009)

cmarti said:


> The real question Windthrown........is what oil should I use in a Chinese saw



A mixture of pork lard and urine.


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## Freehand (Apr 15, 2009)

Lakeside53 said:


> A mixture of pork lard and urine.



Panda bear urine-would'nt want to void the warranty............
opcorn:


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## PasoRoblesJimmy (Apr 15, 2009)

cmarti said:


> The real question Windthrown........is what oil should I use in a Chinese saw



Shouldn't that oil be Stir Fried in a wok at a Chinese greasy spoon? The special place on a corner in Chinatown Oakland having appetizing grease and fly specks on their filthy walls? Their carefully-prepared takeout food featuring cigarette butts smothered in the fried lice? Should that special Chinese oil have a few fly specks in it?


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## SawCrazd (Apr 16, 2009)

chargrille said:


> PasoRoblesJimmy said:
> 
> 
> > Right now the Chi-Com PhDs are working for cheaper wages.
> ...


----------



## stihl sawing (Apr 16, 2009)

But still is it heavy enough for a boat anchor. Didn't get an answer.lol


----------



## chargrille (Apr 16, 2009)

stihl sawing said:


> But still is it heavy enough for a boat anchor. Didn't get an answer.lol



OK, here we go again.

electrics done but..... no fuel in cylinder!! Seems a jet is maybe blocked. I get to find out what carb is like. 

AND i noticed a fuel leak from the rear vertical mould join!

Maybe I should marinise the thing!


----------



## stihl sawing (Apr 16, 2009)

chargrille said:


> OK, here we go again.
> 
> electrics done but..... no fuel in cylinder!! Seems a jet is maybe blocked. I get to find out what carb is like.
> 
> ...


How many hours on it so far. That's a lot of things to be wrong for a new saw.


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## chargrille (Apr 16, 2009)

So Chinasaw should start to earn a living today in 20 inch dry eucalypt. Hard as b*ggery![/QUOTE]

sorry to quote myself.

china saw never got out of the shed. 

Good old 038 ripped through it though. (with it's chinese piston, barrel, crank etc)!!!


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## chargrille (Apr 16, 2009)

stihl sawing said:


> How many hours on it so far. That's a lot of things to be wrong for a new saw.



errr. No hours, well except for one fire by pouring fuel into plug hole!


----------



## stihl sawing (Apr 16, 2009)

chargrille said:


> errr. No hours, well except for one fire by pouring fuel into plug hole!


I take it would not start since your pouring gas in the cylinder. guess i need to go read all the post, I thought this was a brand new saw you were gonna take out and run hard to see how it holds up.


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## chargrille (Apr 16, 2009)

stihl sawing said:


> I take it would not start since your pouring gas in the cylinder. guess i need to go read all the post, I thought this was a brand new saw you were gonna take out and run hard to see how it holds up.



That was the original plan, and it will happen, once the chinasaw is running.

I had anticipated one or two 'issues', but it is getting rather silly.

I will get my hands on a newer clone next. Theres a copy of a husky 365 to try out. should get it in a week.

Oh, and I whip myself regularly.


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## stihl sawing (Apr 16, 2009)

chargrille said:


> That was the original plan, and it will happen, once the chinasaw is running.
> 
> I had anticipated one or two 'issues', but it is getting rather silly.
> 
> ...


LOL, You are a glutton for punishment.


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## chargrille (Apr 16, 2009)

So we shall see. Seems that people are willing to pay less for crap rather than to pay more for quality. Sun Mocrosystems is on the skids becasue companies are not willing to pay for quality engineering desktop systems. They want to buy cheap PCs for their engineers. It may be the same with chainsaws. Why buy a Stihl 361 that can be fixed if it breaks for $600 when you can buy a Ching Dao crap saw for $60. If they break, just toss them and start up another new one. No issues with time and cost to fix them. No need to buy spare parts. Buy 10, and if 2 do not even work new, so what? Just toss them. Seems that a lot of loggers are of that mentality. They buy a new Stihl ot Husky every year, beat the crap out of them, and sell them used for half the value and buy a new one.[/QUOTE]

Just had a thoughtgiven quality issues experienced with chinasaw. Dealers repair business is going to sky-rocket!


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## windthrown (Apr 16, 2009)

PasoRoblesJimmy said:


> Shouldn't that oil be Stir Fried in a wok at a Chinese greasy spoon? The special place on a corner in Chinatown Oakland having appetizing grease and fly specks on their filthy walls? Their carefully-prepared takeout food featuring cigarette butts smothered in the fried lice? Should that special Chinese oil have a few fly specks in it?



Hey! No giving away the secret formulas for _GaryWAY _oils!


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## stihl sawing (Apr 16, 2009)

chargrille said:


> So we shall see. Seems that people are willing to pay less for crap rather than to pay more for quality. Sun Mocrosystems is on the skids becasue companies are not willing to pay for quality engineering desktop systems. They want to buy cheap PCs for their engineers. It may be the same with chainsaws. Why buy a Stihl 361 that can be fixed if it breaks for $600 when you can buy a Ching Dao crap saw for $60. If they break, just toss them and start up another new one. No issues with time and cost to fix them. No need to buy spare parts. Buy 10, and if 2 do not even work new, so what? Just toss them. Seems that a lot of loggers are of that mentality. They buy a new Stihl ot Husky every year, beat the crap out of them, and sell them used for half the value and buy a new one.



Not me, I would rather pay for quality and have it last a while. I don't think pro loggers will ever adopt a chinasaw because they won't last. their saws have to be reliable or they go home with no pay. Maybe homeowners that know diddly about a saw will buy them. Loggers do run their saws hard and the chinasaw probably wouldn't last a day in the field. Your's has not even seen a tree yet and it has a multitude of problems. No chinese junk for me, give me a stihl or a husky.


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## SawCrazd (Apr 16, 2009)

I guess the chi-com are NOT taking over yet. they need chargrille to fix all their design flaws!! LOL 
this saw was fresh off the dock new?? or did I miss something in this 11+ page lamb, beer,(you guys are great send that swill fosters to the good ol USA) ....


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## briantutt (Apr 16, 2009)

SawCrazd said:


> I guess the chi-com are NOT taking over yet. they need chargrille to fix all their design flaws!! LOL
> this saw was fresh off the dock new?? or did I miss something in this 11+ page lamb, beer,(you guys are great send that swill fosters to the good ol USA) ....



I love foster's bitter...don't care if it's made in USA


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## SawCrazd (Apr 17, 2009)

briantutt said:


> I love foster's bitter...don't care if it's made in USA



I like negra medalo its Mexican beer kinda dark but not to dark. 
dont even know if I spelled that right after 3 I dont care if I did.

I know the saw is missing the muffler bearing and the canutor valve. 

the steel head are running right know round here, god I love pickled trout!


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## dingeryote (Apr 17, 2009)

SawCrazd said:


> I like negra medalo its Mexican beer kinda dark but not to dark.
> dont even know if I spelled that right after 3 I dont care if I did.
> 
> I know the saw is missing the muffler bearing and the canutor valve.
> ...



Any Smelt yet??

My Arterys are getting a little too open, and I need to fix that with a three day Deep Fried Smelt feeding frenzy....

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## briantutt (Apr 17, 2009)

dingeryote said:


> Any Smelt yet??
> 
> My Arterys are getting a little too open, and I need to fix that with a three day Deep Fried Smelt feeding frenzy....
> 
> ...



Smelt fry this sunday, Hillman MN. Never tried it but my father would go!


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## dingeryote (Apr 17, 2009)

briantutt said:


> Smelt fry this sunday, Hillman MN. Never tried it but my father would go!



When they run hard, we build a fire and fry 'em up as they come out of the nets right there next to the creek.
But it's been YEARS since a hard run.

Enjoy the Smelt. Once ya get goin', it only hurts when ya stop!! LOL!

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## briantutt (Apr 17, 2009)

dingeryote said:


> When they run hard, we build a fire and fry 'em up as they come out of the nets right there next to the creek.
> But it's been YEARS since a hard run.
> 
> Enjoy the Smelt. Once ya get goin', it only hurts when ya stop!! LOL!
> ...



I grew up in a bait shop, we seined minnows, buried dead ones etc. Can't bring myself to eat "dead minnows" what a wuuus

But I bet to most it's great.


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## eyolf (Apr 17, 2009)

Smelt is good: imagine eating mountains of fried herring; thats about how big they are. But they taste better, and are kinda "peel and eat".

There used to be lots more smelt feeds around, and it wasn't just the smelt and coleslaw, it was hanging with your buddies at legion clubs or church socials, etc. too. I think there's a bit of nostalgia for the old days.

Smelting can be a lot of fun and was a very popular activity pretty much all around lake Superior, but there were some bad memories too. Seems like every year some numbskull would drink too much and drown...sometimes just around the corner from where you were.


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## porky616 (Apr 17, 2009)

mate of mine has two of these baumar ag things that are supposed to be 62cc. nice looking saw with a nice handle bar grip but thats about it. i finally gave in and used one tonight after reading this thread and thinking i should try before i hang :censored: on them. 62cc more like 26cc! with a 22inch bar it was a joke. 14inch bar and it mite be ok but it just couldnt pull the 22inch. he had to drill a heap of holes into the air filter cover to stop it drawing dust in from the clutch cover and load it up with 3 more filters to stop it dusting the carb which may have made it a bit under powered but the saw just felt to light, cheap and plain nasty. i admit i am a stihl owner and and a little bit one eyed.i voiced my opinions of the saws to him and he said quote " it will out last your throw away stihl" . :monkey: anyway time will tell but i think i will put my money on the stihls. just my 2 cents worth


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## stihl sawing (Apr 17, 2009)

porky616 said:


> mate of mine has two of these baumar ag things that are supposed to be 62cc. nice looking saw with a nice handle bar grip but thats about it. i finally gave in and used one tonight after reading this thread and thinking i should try before i hang :censored: on them. 62cc more like 26cc! with a 22inch bar it was a joke. 14inch bar and it mite be ok but it just couldnt pull the 22inch. he had to drill a heap of holes into the air filter cover to stop it drawing dust in from the clutch cover and load it up with 3 more filters to stop it dusting the carb which may have made it a bit under powered but the saw just felt to light, cheap and plain nasty. i admit i am a stihl owner and and a little bit one eyed.i voiced my opinions of the saws to him and he said quote " it will out last your throw away stihl" . :monkey: anyway time will tell but i think i will put my money on the stihls. just my 2 cents worth


No way, He will have to eat those words later or maybe soon.lol


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## porky616 (Apr 17, 2009)

stihl sawing said:


> No way, He will have to eat those words later or maybe soon.lol



the amount of dust and wood i saw in the carb throat i think death is very close. then i think i may just let me 66mag idle next him. or drag out the 880 and bury him in wood chips. as waylon said " i dont mad i just get even"


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## chargrille (Apr 17, 2009)

porky616 said:


> mate of mine has two of these baumar ag things that are supposed to be 62cc. nice looking saw with a nice handle bar grip but thats about it. i finally gave in and used one tonight after reading this thread and thinking i should try before i hang :censored: on them. 62cc more like 26cc! with a 22inch bar it was a joke. 14inch bar and it mite be ok but it just couldnt pull the 22inch. he had to drill a heap of holes into the air filter cover to stop it drawing dust in from the clutch cover and load it up with 3 more filters to stop it dusting the carb which may have made it a bit under powered but the saw just felt to light, cheap and plain nasty. i admit i am a stihl owner and and a little bit one eyed.i voiced my opinions of the saws to him and he said quote " it will out last your throw away stihl" . :monkey: anyway time will tell but i think i will put my money on the stihls. just my 2 cents worth



Thanks for the input mr rasher.
This saw looks very similar to those baumar saws on ehh-up bay. This Chinasaw runs a 24 inch! 

On the subject of air filters, The filter set up on this saw is pretty good (looking), if untried as yet.

There is s/steel mesh onthe hot air draw (between carb and barrel. Then there is 10mm fine foam pad. Then their is a corrugated fine nylon mesh.

As it is almost exact copy of Shinny 575, does the shinny suffer poor filtration?


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## chargrille (Apr 17, 2009)

SawCrazd said:


> I guess the chi-com are NOT taking over yet. they need chargrille to fix all their design flaws!! LOL
> this saw was fresh off the dock new?? or did I miss something in this 11+ page lamb, beer,(you guys are great send that swill fosters to the good ol USA) ....



Hey mr cad victim.

Since joining here and having so much fun with Chinasaw, I am seriously considering setting up as a chainsaw mechanic, vendor ( at a low level).

Hopefully, my cad will help me turn a quid. With chinasaw needing so much nursing and surgery, and every back yarder and there dog buying Chinasaws, there will be a huge demand for reasonably priced repairers. My local stihl dealer charges more for one hour labour than chinasaw cost!

Funny, really, That after years of management and post- graduate research contracts, It's fixing chainsaws that I actually love doing.

Will probably sell cheap aftermarket engine kits etc. Genuine is just too expensive for all but pro's and the rich.

Thanks to all comments blokes, I've found my place in life!

do miss a pint of Wadworth's Old Timer!


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## PasoRoblesJimmy (Apr 17, 2009)

chargrille said:


> Hey mr cad victim.
> Funny, really, That after years of management and post- graduate research contracts, It's fixing chainsaws that I actually love doing.
> 
> Will probably sell cheap aftermarket engine kits etc. Genuine is just too expensive for all but pro's and the rich.
> ...



I happen to be a retired Electrical/Electronics Engineer who received a call from the Dark Side (i.e., Engineering Management). You'd be amazed at how many scientists and engineers enjoy working with their hands.
.


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## chargrille (Apr 17, 2009)

*First overview!*



chargrille said:


> I have just received a chinese chainsaw in order to assess quality, safety and efficency etc. I am aware of the posted threads re imports but wanted to access the saw before rubbishing them.
> 
> Saw is 62cc, stihl/shindaiwa clone, 24 inch bar
> Retail us$71-, china port us$17
> ...



*FIRST OVERVIEW*

The saw looks and feels very much like most traditional brands.
Given that its an almost exact copy of a shindaiwa 575, this is hardly suprising.
Carby is Chinese and appears well made. Stepped needles etc. Identical to Shinny carb.
Piston has 2 rings
Barrel is reasonably cleanly cast and finnished, with domed head.
Crankcase is alloy and reasonable a/a
Ignition is dual coil, but wiring is week
Pull starter is good
Clutch is good, but incorrectly assembled
Chainbrake is good
Bar and chain looks fine, but 24 inch is probably too big (chinese)
Oil pump is good
Handles are ok, but poor finnish in places
Plastics(body, tanks etc.) are OK
Air filtration looks good

FAULTS SO FAR

Incorrect clutch assembly- I consider this dangerous (chain turns with starter rope)
Broken wire terminal on main switch- just annoying
Required full tuning- needles in tight
Fuel tank full of ####- bits of plastic etc
Carby blocked- see above, but fully serviceable
Fuel leak from poorly joined plastic body halves -potentially dangerous
Missing oil cap rubber and retaining web- being supplied
Dirt, debris and contaniments all over and in every tank, around carby etc.

SUMMARY TO DATE

Components seem reasonably good
Assembly poor
Factory assembly conditions poor
TQM (quality control) -very, very poor (prob. none)

Thanks for your patience.


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## chargrille (Apr 17, 2009)

PasoRoblesJimmy said:


> I happen to be a retired Electrical/Electronics Engineer who received a call from the Dark Side (i.e., Engineering Management). You'd be amazed at how many scientists and engineers enjoy working with their hands.
> .



Good thoughts mr jimmy!

After 44 years of just not "getting" life and people, I diagnosed myself as ADHD. I couldn't concentrate or focus! Chainsaws had 5 mins to be fixed, or were anchors. Now, with meds, I can work carefully and systematically for hours and hours. Oh, and I can sleep!

Soooo, chinasaw, roast lamb, politics, smelt, beer, psychiatry!


----------



## stinkbait (Apr 17, 2009)

Got a video?


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## chargrille (Apr 17, 2009)

stinkbait said:


> Got a video?



hi mr stinky!

lots of adult videos, but none of saw.- no camera.

Due to you blokes though, I will go and buy one soon and upload video (of saw!)

p.s. Prob a chinese clone of Pentax!


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## mtfallsmikey (Apr 17, 2009)

chargrille said:


> Good thoughts mr jimmy!
> 
> After 44 years of just not "getting" life and people, I diagnosed myself as ADHD. I couldn't concentrate or focus! Chainsaws had 5 mins to be fixed, or were anchors. Now, with meds, I can work carefully and systematically for hours and hours. Oh, and I can sleep!
> 
> Soooo, chinasaw, roast lamb, politics, smelt, beer, psychiatry!



Char, you really need good American liquor...Jack Daniels, Maker's Mark, Virginia Gentleman, to correct them thar deficiencies!


----------



## chargrille (Apr 17, 2009)

mtfallsmikey said:


> Char, you really need good American liquor...Jack Daniels, Maker's Mark, Virginia Gentleman, to correct them thar deficiencies!



Used to buy 1gallon bottles of VAT 69 when I lived there- cheap!

Have nowadays got a taste for a decent drop of red!

seriously, though, ADHD made me drink way, way, way too much. t o the point I did rehab centre for a year. Now I enjoy a drop in moderation- too much beer means I cant focus on saws, or I shake too much to work!

Nothing wrong with beer for most people, just not me!


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## PasoRoblesJimmy (Apr 17, 2009)

*Debris in chink chainsaws*



chargrille said:


> *FIRST OVERVIEW*
> Dirt, debris and contaniments all over and in every tank, around carby etc.



Debris flies everywhere when the Slavedriver running the Chi-Com sweat shop cracks his whip all over the overworked slaves!!!!!


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## chargrille (Apr 17, 2009)

*skin*



PasoRoblesJimmy said:


> Debris flies everywhere when the Slavedriver running the Chi-Com sweat shop cracks his whip all over the overworked slaves!!!!!



Now you mention it, some of the tank conaminants looked kinda yellow!


----------



## cmarti (Apr 17, 2009)

chargrille said:


> toomuch beer means I cant focus on saws, or I shake too much to work!
> 
> Nothing wrong with beer for most people, just not me!



Too little beer generally has that effect on me:monkey: 

My career is soo far away from saws and mechanical toys, but I truly enjoy time in my out building taking enines and carbs apart. It is like a 3 dimensional crossword puzzle, keeps my feeble mind occupied.


----------



## chargrille (Apr 17, 2009)

cmarti said:


> Too little beer generally has that effect on me:monkey:
> 
> My career is soo far away from saws and mechanical toys, but I truly enjoy time in my out building taking enines and carbs apart. It is like a 3 dimensional crossword puzzle, keeps my feeble mind occupied.



you got it mr martini!

And you can't beat a box of several saws, completely disassembled, no ipls!


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## windthrown (Apr 17, 2009)

Did you start the saw yet? Or did the clutch lock up and all of the gas and oil leak out of the tanks before you could get it running? :jawdrop:

ADHD/ADD? Self-diagnosed myself at age 40. Oops, late for a job, gotta' go!


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## chargrille (Apr 17, 2009)

windthrown said:


> Did you start the saw yet? Or did the clutch lock up and all of the gas and oil leak out of the tanks before you could get it running? :jawdrop:
> 
> ADHD/ADD? Self-diagnosed myself at age 40. Oops, late for a job, gotta' go!



sorry saga isn't it!

Saw fired once to check electrics fixed, by dropping fuel in plug hole.
Will today clean and reassemble carby, epoxy up fuel tank, figure out weird fast idle control on carby; the throttle lever seems to interlock with the choke lever. Then need a day prior to fuelling.
Clutch is fixed.

Did you have a weird life prior to 40?!(some!!!!)


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## windthrown (Apr 17, 2009)

So, these cheap-ass Tsing-Tao knock-off chainsaws only require about 20 hours of work to get them... working? At $65 an hour, that comes to $1300 a saw. And they are cheaper you say??? 

.... .... .... 

Weird life before 40? Well, compared to other people, yes. Compared to my family and friends, no. Life has not changed since 40, or after 7 years of therapy either. Oops, now I am really late for something I forgot I was supposed to do this afternoon. If I could only remember what it was. Oh well... two ways that you can deal with ADD. One is to try hard, and I mean really hard, to adapt to the rest of the 'real' world. The other way is to roll with it, and do things that allow you to be your ADD self. I am writing a book on ADD, but it has been 10 years in the making. I have chapters 1, 3, 4 and 9 complete. I am writing it to be read backwards too. Or just skimmed through. It also has some blank pages, left blank becasue the author forgot what was supposed to go there. Some day it will be published, maybe. Maybe not. What was it that I supposed to do this afternoon? Damn. Lost my list.


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## chargrille (Apr 17, 2009)

windthrown said:


> So, these cheap-ass Tsing-Tao knock-off chainsaws only require about 20 hours of work to get them... working? At $65 an hour, that comes to $1300 a saw. And they are cheaper you say???
> 
> .... .... ....
> 
> Weird life before 40? Well, compared to other people, yes. Compared to my family and friends, no. Life has not changed since 40, or after 7 years of therapy either. Oops, now I am really late for something I forgot I was supposed to do this afternoon. If I could only remember what it was. Oh well... two ways that you can deal with ADD. One is to try hard, and I mean really hard, to adapt to the rest of the 'real' world. The other way is to roll with it, and do things that allow you to be your ADD self. I am writing a book on ADD, but it has been 10 years in the making. I have chapters 1, 3, 4 and 9 complete. I am writing it to be read backwards too. Or just skimmed through. It also has some blank pages, left blank becasue the author forgot what was supposed to go there. Some day it will be published, maybe. Maybe not. What was it that I supposed to do this afternoon? Damn. Lost my list.



LMAO

I couldn't agree more with the labour requirement, that's why I might set up as a specialist chinasaw fixer(as well as doing up usual brands). They are selling thousands and thousands here.

It must be borne in mind that it is possible that this saw is a lemon. I would need to have a representative sample for a real check. Perhaps if I get hold of a further 99 chinasaws... what am I thinking!

Your book sounds ideal for adhd! I kept getting therapy for anxiety/ depression, but knew it was something else. With meds now (for 4 months), I am symptom free with no side effects. People around me can't believe the change. I do occasionally miss a dose if I have to brainstorm a task, or lateral think. When I looked back at my old school reports I had to laugh! :-

could do better
Doesnt concentrate
very intelligent, if only he applied it et. etc.

But now life is great, although I realise meds don't work for everyone.

My day is organised, everything is in place, no outstanding stuff!

appreciate your support


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## porky616 (Apr 17, 2009)

chargrille said:


> Thanks for the input mr rasher.
> This saw looks very similar to those baumar saws on ehh-up bay. This Chinasaw runs a 24 inch!
> 
> On the subject of air filters, The filter set up on this saw is pretty good (looking), if untried as yet.
> ...



sounds a lot better than these, both of these saws draw air straight from the clutch cover which feeds the dirt straight in. i will try and get some pics to show the mods and faults.


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## SawCrazd (Apr 19, 2009)

dingeryote said:


> When they run hard, we build a fire and fry 'em up as they come out of the nets right there next to the creek.
> But it's been YEARS since a hard run.
> 
> Enjoy the Smelt. Once ya get goin', it only hurts when ya stop!! LOL!
> ...



dont dip smelt , they taste 10 times better through the ice verses in a dip net.
and it hurts at lot when you stop but thats why you stop!! walk in and role out!! LOL


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## SawCrazd (Apr 19, 2009)

I just got to say I got CAD bad ever since I started reading threads here and joined to get in on the action! so far I learned alot, most everyone is willing to help out and guys like lakeside53 and timberwolf (just to name a few) do their best to explain their little projects.I read a couple of thier threads on muffler mods. opcorn:

I think your doin heck of a job char!! that saw keeps kickin you right in the jimmy and you stay at it, ADHD,ADD my backside YOU ARE THE MAN!!! and dont let anyone tell you otherwise. :rocker:

Hats off to all this site is its members and thats is what makes this such a great site. now back to modin my saw. check back later. and good luck with your chi-com fishin budd ie boat anchor. LOL

:computer2need one w/chainsaw for char) who am I kidding for me!


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## chargrille (Apr 19, 2009)

SawCrazd said:


> I just got to say I got CAD bad ever since I started reading threads here and joined to get in on the action! so far I learned alot, most everyone is willing to help out and guys like lakeside53 and timberwolf (just to name a few) do their best to explain their little projects.I read a couple of thier threads on muffler mods. opcorn:
> 
> I think your doin heck of a job char!! that saw keeps kickin you right in the jimmy and you stay at it, ADHD,ADD my backside YOU ARE THE MAN!!! and dont let anyone tell you otherwise. :rocker:
> 
> ...


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## SawCrazd (Apr 19, 2009)

chargrille said:


> SawCrazd said:
> 
> 
> > I just got to say I got CAD bad ever since I started reading threads here and joined to get in on the action! so far I learned alot, most everyone is willing to help out and guys like lakeside53 and timberwolf (just to name a few) do their best to explain their little projects.I read a couple of thier threads on muffler mods. opcorn:
> ...


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## porky616 (Apr 19, 2009)

im gonna get in early char and put me hand up for the 026 if ya decide to off load it. i need my butt kicked for selling mine. and i bought a chinese pole saw raiden brand $120 at me door so i mite follow your lead and start a thread on it. wanted a stihl but couldnt afford it hopefully this thing will make enough for me to trade up


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## chargrille (Apr 23, 2009)

*Chinasaw going!!!*



SawCrazd said:


> chargrille said:
> 
> 
> > the 034 whats wrong and how much??
> ...


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## RED-85-Z51 (Apr 23, 2009)

Ive got to give the cloners some credit..

A while back HONDA went to China to have them forge and cast parts for the GX series utility engines...at first it was stuff like shrouds, then flywheels...then rods and pistons, then blocks, recoils....now pretty much most of the GX line is made in CHINA, shipped ot Japan and assembled in Japan.

Well, quite a few clone companies got word that HONDA's patent on the GX design was running out, so they cloned it..mainly the GX200, GX-240, and GX-390.

Honda sued, and won big...but that is beside the point.

A Genuine honda GX-200 6.5hp engine costs around 425 dollars.

A 6.5hp clone of that engine, with parts made in the same plants as honda parts, costs 99 dollars.

The clone engine holds up extremly well in utility applications, hundreds and hundreds of hard working hours without fail. Then someone decided to put on on a Gokart and pull the governor. The little clone could run balls out for hours on end...

Now there is a HUGE racing movement in America called "Box Stock Project". You buy a clone, put a pipe on it, rejet the carb, remove the low-oil cutoff, and governor...put it on a racing frame and these things are running 2 seasons without any problems, turning 6200 rpms.

The clone engines unfortunately were so similar that it violated some laws, now the clones have changed the apparance, but it's all still the same stuff inside.


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## chargrille (Apr 23, 2009)

RED-85-Z51 said:


> Ive got to give the cloners some credit..
> 
> A while back HONDA went to China to have them forge and cast parts for the GX series utility engines...at first it was stuff like shrouds, then flywheels...then rods and pistons, then blocks, recoils....now pretty much most of the GX line is made in CHINA, shipped ot Japan and assembled in Japan.
> 
> ...



Very interesting Mr.Red. The same thing is happening to most of the brands. It would seem that the desire to cut costs by switching to chinese production may cost these brands heaps. 

I like the sound of the racing series - sounds fun and fairly lo-cost. I have had similar results with most chinese stuff- like you say, same factory, differnt badge. That is except for CHINASAW!!

Tried to tune her(gender ok- its a #####), no way to. It was acting like a split rubber manifold.

Stripped down completely, checked manifold and impulse line- all ok

Then I found that the 2 bolts holding the heat plate and manifold to the barrel were about 3 mm (1/8 in) loose. Checked and the were tight. Turned out the end of the barrel threads had been incompletely machined.

They had done up tight and left the assembly hanging loose! No wonder it wouldnt tune. After tapping remaining thread, one thread was too wide to thread. Found larger screw and threaded again, fixed. Then replaced to rubber av mount screws that had been threaded in the plastic.

Now I will get back to filing the burrs off the ends of the alloy handle- they look like they were cut off with a chainsaw! can't have been, though. This chainsaw factory wouldn't have a working chainsaw!

When reassemled, I will try to introduce her to (shhhhhh.) wood.

I really don't know if this saw is representative- If it is, they had better start training a lot of chainsaw technicians!, or garbos to pick them up.

more later....

p.s. garbo = refuse collection technician


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## porky616 (Aug 8, 2009)

well one of these chinese boat anchors finally melted, i had a good laugh then pulled it down for pics. glad i dont own any of them. im no expert on 2 stroke melt downs but i like the hole it was melting in the piston below the spark plug.


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## knockbill (Aug 8, 2009)

what happened to this thread??? the saw got lost in sheep/ goat talk........
too bad, i was intereseted.............


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## chargrille (Aug 8, 2009)

*chinasaw update*



knockbill said:


> what happened to this thread??? the saw got lost in sheep/ goat talk........
> too bad, i was intereseted.............



Thanks for the interest, I agree that this thread kind of, slightly, just a tad, a smidgeon etc. lost it,s focus, fun as it was.

The update is:
Chinasaws are getting to be complete copies, of any brand/model. Even the boxes are printed identical.

As a saw trader (following membership of this site), I was caught out last week. I bought 11 x stihl MS 250- new, in box.

The e-bad seller guarrenteed they were genuine, even setting up false feedback x 54, false trade ref's, fake I.D. etc.

Currently, on australian e-bad, I estimate 20% of the big brand saws are clones- sometimes declared, sometimes not.

This will only get worse, very quickly. I checked the feedback from other buyers of this clone and most were very happy with their new "stihl"

I will be pursuing E-bad, but they don't seem to give a sh*t

Stihl, Husky, etc. dealers are going to be flooded with repair work, and have to repeatedly tell customers that they have been ripped off

Where from here?


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## chargrille (Aug 8, 2009)

pork said:


> well one of these chinese boat anchors finally melted, i had a good laugh then pulled it down for pics. glad i dont own any of them. im no expert on 2 stroke melt downs but i like the hole it was melting in the piston below the spark plug.



Nice pics Porky.

How many hours did you get?

What type saw?

How much was paid for it?

Source?


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## tdi-rick (Aug 8, 2009)

That's not good at all char, keep pushing the bastards (evilbay) for some recompense, you weren't supplied as advertised, it's straight out fraud and their 'system' was circumvented.

We are hearing more and more stories like this from ebay, I wonder how many more people will be stung ?
Just curious, where is the seller supposedly based ?


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## chargrille (Aug 8, 2009)

tdi-rick said:


> That's not good at all char, keep pushing the bastards (evilbay) for some recompense, you weren't supplied as advertised, it's straight out fraud and their 'system' was circumvented.
> 
> We are hearing more and more stories like this from ebay, I wonder how many more people will be stung ?
> Just curious, where is the seller supposedly based ?



Hi rick!

hope all is good

mike dean, windaroo, qland ebad i.d. mad (and 3 numbers)

Find ms250 listing. I checked his feedback more carefully and its made up. traced him to involvement in executive enterprises pty ltd on alibaba, selling penny crushing machines for arcades, but the phone number listed is for a vet!

Just what I needed in my first months trading! $4k down the drain.

Good to hear from you again


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## porky616 (Aug 8, 2009)

it was one of the baumar ag saws 62cc it had done about 6 to 8 hrs work i think, paid $125 for it spent about 5hrs fixing all the problems it had and i noticed quiet a bit of red dust around the crank and in the case so i guess it was only a matter of time before it fell apart. and all the screws holding it together were finger tight at best. and best of all it aint my saw, so now i can start my stihls (genuine ones) and rub it right in that you pay for what get. and i see what you mean about the stihl clones, 361, 381,250 all said to be genuine. be glad when someone with plenty of cash and a good legal team can get fleabay in court and do them proper good.


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## tdi-rick (Aug 8, 2009)

Yep, all good thanks.

Ouch, that's too much of a hit.
Did the parcels actually come from Qld ?

I'd be surprised if he/they are actually here, I'd be guessing it's all false and the seller is based in China.


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## chargrille (Aug 8, 2009)

porky616 said:


> rub it right in that you pay for what get. and i see what you mean about the stihl clones, 361, 381,250 all said to be genuine. be glad when someone with plenty of cash and a good legal team can get fleabay in court and do them proper good.



That's not long!

Where and what was the red dust?

As for you get what you pay for, these cloned 250's were selling at $525, not like the cheapy ones.

When I've dried my teers, drowned my liver!, I will take some pics and list the listing

Anyone want to buy 11 cloned stihls?! I couldnt bring myself to pas on the con.

They were delivered to tasfreight at brisbane


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## gmax (Aug 8, 2009)

Here's a clone Stihl MS381 on ebay, http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Stihl-MS381-...0067QQptZAUQ5fPowerQ5fToolsQQsalenotsupported

I have reported the seller, advertising it as a "clone" Stihl he's admitting its a fake Stihl chainsaw.


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## tdi-rick (Aug 8, 2009)

It's been removed already


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## gmax (Aug 8, 2009)

Good, obviously a few people must have reported it


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## porky616 (Aug 9, 2009)

the red dust was a mix of wood and silt i think and it was all over the saw internals. im surprised it ran as long as it did


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## shortlid (Aug 9, 2009)

Clarkbug said:


> Great, thanks for spending the time to show us all! Im curious what 17 dollars worth of chainsaw looks like....



Original poster is in Austr. so China is much closer. His dollar is about 83 cents to ours.


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## lspmmp (Aug 9, 2009)

tdi-rick said:


> No one drinks that crap here, so they export it instead.
> 
> 
> 
> Mmmm, Boags......



Last Foster's that I bought said it was made in Canada by Carlings! Tasted good though...


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