# Preventative Spraying



## Jace (May 20, 2010)

For those that spray trees, is it considered OK practice to spray trees preventatively annually/biannually (with like a triple action plus spray or something)? Or is it considered bad practice to "preventative spray" a tree that is in fine shape, unless one is convinced theres a real good chance of the trees getting a disease or insect infested. May sound like a dumb question to some, but I'll ask it anyhow.

(I ask because I did some spraying some austrian pines for tip blight, but there also is norway spruces around that are just fine, but I thought I might start spraying them(mainly because those in charge asked me to) annualy for a preventative of fungis, bugs... )thoughts?


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## Ed Roland (May 20, 2010)

A pre-emptive strike? Against a particular virulent pest? Where small populations cause great damage? Ok, sure.
but...
Jace, Be sure to have the causal, positively, identified before developing any chemical strategy. Pass the cost of the path. report on to the customer. 

If it applies, the Morton Arboretum tells us "Except for young seedlings, the disease rarely attacks trees under 15 years of age and most severely damages trees that are older than 30 years. It is seldom seen in forests, but prefers ornamental trees weakened by poor sites, drought, hail or snow damage, overshading, compacted soils, root restrictions, insect activity, or other mechanical wounding."

Since the Norway is a secondary victim anyway, Perhaps, instead of broadcasting a "triple action plus spray" aimed at suspected pests you could sell services to increase spruce vitality. Mulch, soil tests/corrections, fertility, etc.


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## Jace (May 21, 2010)

the prevention spray I was consideing using was triple action neem oil once or twice in a year, rather than a chemical spray for a certain critter or disease, that has not yet hit a tree.

http://www.hidhut.com/catalog/triple-action-neem-oil-p-33.html


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## Ed Roland (May 21, 2010)

Couple a things: first, neem oil *is* a chemical spray. 
Second, what you want to do is called "broadcast spraying" and is counter to proper IPM principles. Killing every arthropod on the tree with ancillary hopes that fungal hypha will not be able to dock on oil coated needles? Spruce are sensitive to oil treatments, especially in summer when you apply your second coat. 

Try cultural tactics to _prevent_ and a registered fungicide containing propiconizole to _treat_. Target the specific pest and choose chemical controls wisely. 
good luck


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## Jace (May 21, 2010)

Ed Roland said:


> Couple a things: first, neem oil *is* a chemical spray.
> Second, what you want to do is called "broadcast spraying" and is counter to proper IPM principles. Killing every arthropod on the tree with ancillary hopes that fungal hypha will not be able to dock on oil coated needles? Spruce are sensitive to oil treatments, especially in summer when you apply your second coat.
> 
> Try cultural tactics to _prevent_ and a registered fungicide containing propiconizole to _treat_. Target the specific pest and choose chemical controls wisely.
> good luck




Thank you for your advice. I'll heed to it.

I wasnt so much aiming for only fungis (tip blight)control, but insects or whatever could damage-precautionary. I suppose the reason I asked to begin with, was somethin in my head was sayin this might not be good practice. 

Maybe I just needed a reminder...I follow U now....to treat preventatively without really a cause is not so good of practice, because I would be wiping out ALL insects, good and bad(are there any good ones tho LOL),(not to mention as U said, spruces dont care for the oil much) rather than just the ones that could damage. 

Sorry I dont use high tech proper lango LOL, I spend a whole lot more time trimming and removing trees than I do treating them for I & D. I am trying to learn, and do want to learn much more, and would be interested in direction of how to get more knowledge with it all. I study what I can on Univerity Extension sites etc.

Thanks Ed


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## S Mc (May 21, 2010)

Jace, Ed gave you some really good information here. And, by the way, don't worry about not sounding as intellectual as he...none of us do. Half the time when I'm talking with him, I'm reaching for my dictionary! 

But whereas there are certain diseases, primarily fungal in nature, that have preventative treatment regimens due to their virulent nature or economical impact, there are only a few insects that fall under that category.

Spraying for insects prior to their appearance, in most instances, is going to do far more harm than good.

Yes, there are many beneficial insects out there. Far more than harmful ones. Killing them all simply adds to the imbalance of nature. 

Keep researching and learning. Ed has taught me alot during our study sessions regarding pest control. He is an excellent resource. 

Sylvia


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## Urban Forester (May 21, 2010)

S Mc said:


> Jace, Ed gave you some really good information here. And, by the way, don't worry about not sounding as intellectual as he...none of us do. Half the time when I'm talking with him, I'm reaching for my dictionary!
> 
> But whereas there are certain diseases, primarily fungal in nature, that have preventative treatment regimens due to their virulent nature or economical impact, there are only a few insects that fall under that category.
> 
> ...



Excellent post... The understanding of Integrated Pest Management dictates that pesticide is only ONE tool in the "Arborists Toolbox". Diagnosing plant problems prior to threshold issues is the key. Diseases can be treated proactively when the innoculum in the area warrants it. "Blanket" spraying for insects is never the answer as only .6% of insects are truly plant damaging. Specifically, Norway Spruces are known as vigorous, low pest trees (if planted in the right place/the right way) so understanding the species/pest relationship is also very important. Explain this to the client, most will understand that spraying is only needed if threshold pests exists.


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## Ed Roland (May 24, 2010)

Urban Forester said:


> Excellent post... The understanding of Integrated Pest Management dictates that pesticide is only ONE tool in the "Arborists Toolbox". Diagnosing plant problems prior to threshold issues is the key. Diseases can be treated proactively when the innoculum in the area warrants it. "Blanket" spraying for insects is never the answer as only .6% of insects are truly plant damaging. Specifically, Norway Spruces are known as vigorous, low pest trees (if planted in the right place/the right way) so understanding the species/pest relationship is also very important. Explain this to the client, most will understand that spraying is only needed if threshold pests exists.



Well said, UF. 

Besides, selling strategy to ensure optimum cultural conditions can be more profitable than chemical remediation.


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## Jace (May 24, 2010)

So..., I can safely assume that any use of dormancy neem oil during the winter to kill dormant insects and eggs is not at all considered good practice as again, you kill'm all, the good right a long with the bad and the ugly, correct?


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## S Mc (May 24, 2010)

Jace, this is where knowing the species and life cycle is very helpful. 

If you have an undesirable insect whose life cycle allows you winter/dormant access at a sensitive stage in its development, and the beneficials aren't going to be around for awhile or in that target area, then you can use your dormant oil to best purpose with least negative consequences.

The "plus", if you will to insecticidal soaps and hort oils, is their lack of residual. Yes, you will hit some beneficials if they are immediately present, but ones coming in hours and days after the application won't be targets as opposed to your more toxic options.

Sylvia


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## Ed Roland (May 24, 2010)

Jace said:


> So..., I can safely assume that any use of dormancy neem oil during the winter to kill dormant insects and eggs is not at all considered good practice as again, you kill'm all, the good right a long with the bad and the ugly, correct?



No, not quite. 
Like Sylvia, I think its important to find a selective pesticide to target a *specific* pest. Horticulture oils are non selective but when used responsibly they _can_ be very effective _with_ low impact.
You might apply dormant oil in the winter and kill some overwintering insects but for best control wait until early spring when the target insects are newly active and most susceptible. I might use dormant oil to control crawling scale insects and their eggs in this manner.
BUT...
Jace, remember that IPM starts with identifying the pest, then looking for sanitation or other non‐chemical ways to make the environment less attractive to the pest. If all else fails, find and use the least‐toxic product that will still provide control.


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## Jace (Jun 2, 2010)

Ed Roland said:


> No, not quite.
> Like Sylvia, I think its important to find a selective pesticide to target a *specific* pest. Horticulture oils are non selective but when used responsibly they _can_ be very effective _with_ low impact.
> You might apply dormant oil in the winter and kill some overwintering insects but for best control wait until early spring when the target insects are newly active and most susceptible. I might use dormant oil to control crawling scale insects and their eggs in this manner.
> BUT...
> Jace, remember that IPM starts with identifying the pest, then looking for sanitation or other non‐chemical ways to make the environment less attractive to the pest. If all else fails, find and use the least‐toxic product that will still provide control.




Very good.
Thanks for helping me.


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