# this is a hard life



## treevet (Dec 9, 2009)

We have been a little slow with the economy and holiday coming up. But a big blow just went thru here and busted some stuff up. It has been mild lately probably kind of like the big "4 cottonwood" job with some laughs with pals and for the most part no discomfort.

But since it has been slow and now we got some work you gotta do it no matter what. The next two mornings we will be going out in 15 degree weather and it will peak in the low 20's plus strong wind gusts. Got to climb a big tall dead sugar maple tomorrow and the following day a tall locust that is split right to the ground and just floating around like a couple of big rubber telephone poles in between 2 houses and multi wires on both sides right under it. 

Sometimes it is great but sometimes it is just nasty. Be it cold or hot and humid, bugs or bees all over, or you have to climb with an injury or the flu to make payments, sometimes this is just a hard life. Used to be even harder when I threw 2 am drinking binge hangovers in to the mix but that numbed it somewhat.


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## Mikecutstrees (Dec 9, 2009)

yeah glad my hard drinking days are over too! Seems like as soon as the weather gets nasty the work gets neck deep. We have a ton of work here, Big removals, pruning and today we got 4 inches of snow and sleet. I'm glad were busy but I'd rather bust my butt when the weather makes things a little easier, I mean why do people wait untill winter arrives to call. Oh well I'll take a few pictures next week.... Mike


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## tree MDS (Dec 9, 2009)

I hear you on all the above TV. After my latest bout of treeworkin, think I need to send myself off to bidding school or something. Loading logs under the tractor headlights (before snowstorm hit) for chump change at 8:00 at night, 45 mins from home, sort of secured that notion. At least I try to charge enough...sometimes I wonder if I'm retarded or something though. 

I've still got two massive trees to prune and cable too. One aint too bad at $1800, the other I just sort of threw $1800 at it as well, the latter of the two I know I'm gonna lose my :censored: on after looking at it more while losing my :censored: on the above mentioned takedown. 

The things the threat of winter and having payments will do to a tree guy. Lol.


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## Treetom (Dec 9, 2009)

*Big blow comin' north*

TreeVet. Some of that wet and nasty stuff went through here, too, slushy snow that felt as heavy as wet cement. Minimal damage so far. Climbing in the cold sucks, add some wind chill and it's dangerous, a little freezing rain on top of that and it's time to go home. Work safe.


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## Blakesmaster (Dec 9, 2009)

I was hoping with the wind and the heavy, wet snow somthin' would get trashed near me but alas, my phone's still silent. So it goes.


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## treevet (Dec 9, 2009)

Don't get me wrong Blakes, the phone ain't ringin off the hook here like it usually would with a blow like that.


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## Tree Pig (Dec 9, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> I hear you on all the above TV. After my latest bout of treeworkin, think I need to send myself off to bidding school or something. Loading logs under the tractor headlights (before snowstorm hit) for chump change at 8:00 at night, 45 mins from home, sort of secured that notion. At least I try to charge enough...sometimes I wonder if I'm retarded or something though.
> 
> I've still got two massive trees to prune and cable too. One aint too bad at $1800, the other I just sort of threw $1800 at it as well, the latter of the two I know I'm gonna lose my :censored: on after looking at it more while losing my :censored: on the above mentioned takedown.
> 
> The things the threat of winter and having payments will do to a tree guy. Lol.



The biggest problem is there is a widening gap between what a job is worth (what you know you should be charging for it) and what you know you have to bid it at to get it (people are not going to pay what its worth combined with some fool coming by and bidding the job at 1/3 or 1/4 of what it should be bid at.


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## treevet (Dec 9, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> I hear you on all the above TV. After my latest bout of treeworkin, think I need to send myself off to bidding school or something. Loading logs under the tractor headlights (before snowstorm hit) for chump change at 8:00 at night, 45 mins from home, sort of secured that notion. At least I try to charge enough...sometimes I wonder if I'm retarded or something though.
> 
> I've still got two massive trees to prune and cable too. One aint too bad at $1800, the other I just sort of threw $1800 at it as well, the latter of the two I know I'm gonna lose my :censored: on after looking at it more while losing my :censored: on the above mentioned takedown.
> 
> The things the threat of winter and having payments will do to a tree guy. Lol.



How do you lose your shirt on any pruning and cabling job at $1800 ea MDS?

I think the cabling has you intimidated (read on another thread). Get the ANSI standard, a good gas Tanaka drill and have at it. People like Jocomo over complicate cabling...it ain't that big of a deal. I have probably put in over 3k cables over the years. They are all doing fine as far as I know.


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## Blakesmaster (Dec 9, 2009)

treevet said:


> Don't get me wrong Blakes, the phone ain't ringin off the hook here like it usually would with a blow like that.



I guess that makes feel a little better, but you could have just told me to stop my #####ing, lol. Be safe out there.


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## treevet (Dec 9, 2009)

Blakesmaster said:


> I guess that makes feel a little better, but you could have just told me to stop my #####ing, lol. Be safe out there.



I can become a member of the "Whiner" family with the best of em lol.


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## tree MDS (Dec 9, 2009)

treevet said:


> How do you lose your shirt on any pruning and cabling job at $1800 ea MDS?
> 
> I think the cabling has you intimidated (read on another thread). Get the ANSI standard, a good gas Tanaka drill and have at it. People like Jocomo over complicate cabling...it ain't that big of a deal. I have probably put in over 3k cables over the years. They are all doing fine as far as I know.



Its more the second tree that I mentioned thats bothering me TV, its one of the biggest beach trees I've ever seen, the things more like ten trees. Oh, and the tips are dying and it has a huge spread and large deadwood over targets. If I dont get it done in a day its not good sinse its 45 mins away and I want the high priced help on this one. The days are short and I hate the cold too. Lol.

I know how to cable pretty good though, just not a huge fan. I've got the stihl gas drill with two different bits, as well as the 5/8"x 4' timber bit from sherrill (for thru rods).


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## treevet (Dec 9, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> Its more the second tree that I mentioned thats bothering me TV, its one of the biggest beach trees I've ever seen, the things more like ten trees. Oh, and the tips are dying and it has a huge spread and large deadwood over targets. If I dont get it done in a day its not good sinse its 45 mins away and I want the high priced help on this one. The days are short and I hate the cold too. Lol.
> 
> I know how to cable pretty good though, just not a huge fan. I've got the stihl gas drill with two different bits, as well as the 5/8"x 4' timber bit from sherrill (for thru rods).



sounds like you have found the right thread.(JK)opcorn:


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## tree MDS (Dec 9, 2009)

treevet said:


> sounds like you have found the right thread.(JK)opcorn:



Lol. I hear ya though, I was just saying yesterday that I dont think I'm tough enough for this winter scene. Gonna be out there regardless by the looks of it. Damn payments.


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## treevet (Dec 9, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> its one of the biggest beach trees I've ever seen



Get out and do the work and you will BECOME tough enough to do it MDS.

If not maybe these are the "beach" trees you should be working on lol....


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## tree MDS (Dec 9, 2009)

treevet said:


> Get out and do the work and you will BECOME tough enough to do it MDS.
> 
> If not maybe these are the "beach" trees you should be working on lol....



Good one TV, dont know why I screwed that up here, I knew that. At least I got it right on the proposal: "American Beech". You made me check though, lol.


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## treevet (Dec 9, 2009)

How bout some picts. MDS. It is tough ....you get up there and esp on beech it is hard to tell what tips are dead, you wonder if the ho will try to send you back up there and what do you really gain by picking little dead tips out anyway? 

Cables and big dead over targets is a definite positive tho. Do you have to lower it all down or can you take some shots and hope they don't ricochet?


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## ropensaddle (Dec 9, 2009)

Blues despair and agony on thee lol. I don't feel so bad now that I know your struggling too. Not that I am happy you are mind you, it's just that I am barely avoiding bankruptcy and though it seems eminent. I cling to faith in my abilities and my higher power to help me sort out my debts but may need to just call it


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## tree MDS (Dec 9, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> Blues despair and agony on thee lol. I don't feel so bad now that I know your struggling too. Not that I am happy you are mind you, it's just that I am barely avoiding bankruptcy and though it seems eminent I cling to faith in my abilities and my higher power to help me sort out my own but may need to just call it



Rope, you aint never gonna quit..maybe you just need to lose the higher power (or use the avatar instead). 

TV: I'll get back about this tree tomorrow. you are right, I should take some pics, its a good one.


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## ropensaddle (Dec 9, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> Rope, you aint never gonna quit..maybe you just need to lose the higher power (or use the avatar instead).
> 
> TV: I'll get back about this tree tomorrow. you are right, I should take some pics, its a good one.



No doubt I would have more money if I left him behind. If I had nothing to morally ground me I could see easy money but it would be dishonest. I know that money made that way will not last and more important will not make me happy. Sorta like saving the ship by cutting it's sails and leaving you stranded in the deep Pacific.


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## ropensaddle (Dec 9, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> Rope, you aint never gonna quit..maybe you just need to lose the higher power (or use the avatar instead).
> 
> TV: I'll get back about this tree tomorrow. you are right, I should take some pics, its a good one.



give ya a nova since you don't have a higher power. felt sorry fer ya.


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## tree MDS (Dec 9, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> give ya a nova since you don't have a higher power. felt sorry fer ya.



I was just admiring that. lol

I wear it well.


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## Slvrmple72 (Dec 9, 2009)

Mikecutstrees said:


> yeah glad my hard drinking days are over too! Seems like as soon as the weather gets nasty the work gets neck deep. We have a ton of work here, Big removals, pruning and today we got 4 inches of snow and sleet. I'm glad were busy but I'd rather bust my butt when the weather makes things a little easier, I mean why do people wait untill winter arrives to call. Oh well I'll take a few pictures next week.... Mike



Thats an easy one: Cuz of all the guys offering winter rates for treework. Starting to feel it more in my hands now as I get older. Geez, glad I don't do the drinking and treework, makes for one looong day!


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## jomoco (Dec 9, 2009)

You guys sound somewhat ungrateful that your best friend, a storm, has weeded out the dangerously weak trees with a potential to hurt you, or one of your employees.

Kinda weak guys, you should be thanking the storm gods, and tightening your discipline&methods to make the most of storms safely.

I like storms myself, like a fat content old buzzard eaten it up.

jomoco


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## treevet (Dec 9, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> No doubt I would have more money if I left him behind. If I had nothing to morally ground me I could see easy money but it would be dishonest. I know that money made that way will not last and more important will not make me happy. Sorta like saving the ship by cutting it's sails and leaving you stranded in the deep Pacific.



You are my hero for that post.


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## treevet (Dec 9, 2009)

jomoco said:


> You guys sound somewhat ungrateful that your best friend, a storm, has weeded out the dangerously weak trees with a potential to hurt you, or one of your employees.
> 
> Kinda weak guys, you should be thanking the storm gods, and tightening your discipline&methods to make the most of storms safely.
> 
> ...



I like em too and also like to be able to challenge myself under extreme conditions. You don't get that chance in a 9 to fiver riding the old reclining desk chair.

Just musing about 40 years of, again, here we go again, time to dig deep. You are an old timer (fool) like myself and you must be able to relate to that.
You get up a hundred feet more or less and it is dark, freezing, everyone huddled inside, the wind is howling, plenty of opportunity for accidents and injury and you just play your cards right and live to get off the porch and run with the big dogs another day.


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 9, 2009)

Bet you are busy Jon, cant believe how these storms as little as they are, cause so much damage. Crazy week!, 
Jeff


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## ozarktreeman (Dec 9, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> Blues despair and agony on thee lol. I don't feel so bad now that I know your struggling too. Not that I am happy you are mind you, it's just that I am barely avoiding bankruptcy and though it seems eminent. I cling to faith in my abilities and my higher power to help me sort out my debts but may need to just call it






Hang in there Oh brother where art thou!
Workin on some some stuff and hopin that i can throw some to ya!
But yea some times this time of the year ya wonder is it worth it.
And how many winters have you ask yourselves that.
probably more than I have.And still were in it come spring.


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## ropensaddle (Dec 9, 2009)

ozarktreeman said:


> Hang in there Oh brother where art thou!
> Workin on some some stuff and hopin that i can throw some to ya!
> But yea some times this time of the year ya wonder is it worth it.
> And how many winters have you ask yourselves that.
> probably more than I have.And still were in it come spring.



Your prolly right, I sure don't see a chance of me landing a rocket scientist job lol. I have some work just not gobs of it I suppose I will make do but the bills are not paid. I prolly need to talk with a lawyer to save what I can, restructure but really hate not being able to pay everyone. That is what stinks, then get behind and no catching up


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## treevet (Dec 10, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> Your prolly right, I sure don't see a chance of me landing a rocket scientist job lol. I have some work just not gobs of it I suppose I will make do but the bills are not paid. I prolly need to talk with a lawyer to save what I can, restructure but really hate not being able to pay everyone. That is what stinks, then get behind and no catching up



Can you tap any regulars with a little nudge for discounted services. Works for me in the winter. Just leaf thru you clientele and consider stuff they need done that hasn't been done yet or drop a bid or two. It is not like knocking on doors and business types can appreciate the technique from their own experiences.

Think of "Black Sheep" with Farley and Spade.


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## treevet (Dec 10, 2009)

treevet said:


> Can you tap any regulars with a little nudge for discounted services. Works for me in the winter. Just leaf thru you clientele and consider stuff they need done that hasn't been done yet or drop a bid or two. It is not like knocking on doors and business types can appreciate the technique from their own experiences.
> 
> Think of "Black Sheep" with Farley and Spade.



You know I prob. shouldn't kid about such a touchy subject but I know your personality and think it is probably ok.

This is a real strange economic climate. I always buy some stuff in the fall to ditch taxes a little. Had a good year and came a breath away from signing the dotted line on a commercial property with couple of big bays for a little under $200K. Didn't seem prudent as Bush used to say so I lowered my sights to upgrading my truck crane. Then I backed off that even tho I was approved for the loan. Now I am thinking I may have to liquidate some of my stuff by the end of the winter....which I have some stuff I can do without.

Hell of a lot better than 20 years ago back in my drinking days that had the IRS about to take my business and house and all my equipment. I considered shooting the agent as I knew exactly where he walked every day at lunch downtown where I picked up my wife. He looked so happy and carefree without a worry in the world and what he was doing to me was pure hell. Long story not worth the time.


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## ropensaddle (Dec 10, 2009)

treevet said:


> You know I prob. shouldn't kid about such a touchy subject but I know your personality and think it is probably ok.
> 
> This is a real strange economic climate. I always buy some stuff in the fall to ditch taxes a little. Had a good year and came a breath away from signing the dotted line on a commercial property with couple of big bays for a little under $200K. Didn't seem prudent as Bush used to say so I lowered my sights to upgrading my truck crane. Then I backed off that even tho I was approved for the loan. Now I am thinking I may have to liquidate some of my stuff by the end of the winter....which I have some stuff I can do without.
> 
> Hell of a lot better than 20 years ago back in my drinking days that had the IRS about to take my business and house and all my equipment. I considered shooting the agent as I knew exactly where he walked every day at lunch downtown where I picked up my wife. He looked so happy and carefree without a worry in the world and what he was doing to me was pure hell. Long story not worth the time.



Lol and I thought I was sick lmfao. Hell; I may as well laugh, hurts too much to cry. We do it to ourselves; should of known the economy was going bust. Hindsight 20 20, if I keep the farm and some of my toys I will be ok. I wish now I would have just climbed everything, I was rollin in dough back then but way too tired to spend it. Come to think of it, that ain't bad either lol


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## Sunrise Guy (Dec 10, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> Blues despair and agony on thee lol. I don't feel so bad now that I know your struggling too. Not that I am happy you are mind you, it's just that I am barely avoiding bankruptcy and though it seems eminent. I cling to faith in my abilities and my higher power to help me sort out my debts but may need to just call it



Knowing that you, a guy I have come to know, on here, as a serious working professional who knows his stuff, are facing bankruptcy, really puts things in perspective for me. I am just about ready to call it quits in the tree biz. I am now working jobs for 1/3rd what I used to, and that's only because I'd rather stay busy on a physical level than sit at home on my butt. Even then, the jobs are getting very few and far between. The money is not getting me over. The new phone books are out and I've seen that there are so many new tree guys advertising in it. The pie is getting sliced way too thin, just as it came to be in my last profession, the tattoo biz. With a tattoo shop on every other corner, almost literally, my great income went down to a laughable trickle-in of chump change, after shop expenses. Now this is happening in the tree biz.

Somehow I will find yet another profession to start up in. I'm not sure what it will be, but I've shed professions like a snake sheds its skin over my life and I'll do it again, God willing. It is very frustrating that overpopulation seems to doom any business you get into, ultimately. If the business is fairly easy to start up, like tattooing and a tree work operation, then you can bet that others will get wind of it and in no time at all it will simply not be worth it to hang in there. I have been doing trees for a good while, but when I had the shop, I didn't have to rely on them for my main income. Now that I do, I am fairly certain that I may have to cut my losses and move on. It's frustrating as hell. Salt goes into my wounds when I see folks of dubious legal residency taking jobs for less than I can even understand how they can do so.

Yeah, these are frustrating times. I laugh out loud each time a talking head on the tube blusters and blows about our "economic recovery." I think they think that if you say it long enough, over and over, maybe it will actually come to pass. If it's here, I do not know a single brother or sister in our profession who is feeling its effects. Again, very frustrating times.


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## ropensaddle (Dec 10, 2009)

Hey, I have got it, we are composing a top selling country song. Hurry someone call Willie were gonna be rich On a lighter note: got to go grind some stumps, whilst the grounds froze. Not sure I am going bankrupt yet but it does appear grim. It started because I did not like climbing everything then wanted a grapple truck to get brush up faster. It was working in the old economy but hell, I guess we will likely all be in the poor house when this term is over. Oh well there is always disability lol.


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## treevet (Dec 10, 2009)

Maybe what it takes Sunrise, is doing a little of a number of things. Tatooing is a very artistic endeavor, tree work is (when done properly) a very high skill and knowledge needing job. You said you were doing ok when you were just doing tree work part time with the tatoo ing. That may be the way to go and add some more. I think of someone that cares enough to have a lab and you must have been good with the ink too.

I have tried to diversify with the firewood and the big investment in the Timberwolf stuff. Sales are way down this year due to the glut last year with a hurricane. Also oil prices dropped. I went into planting trees and even added a hydraulic pincher to the dingo and cutting holes with the stumper. The town decides to solicit nurseries to compete to offer wholesale prices on planted trees for next to nothing. 

Maybe next is chimney cleaning with the bucket, reconditioning other's equipment, sale of fireplace accessories (tree gear sales is glutted), offering to get trees down and pruning for all the landscape companies in the area and they do the rest. Hell, I don't know much beyond tree work (nothing really). My next ploy is blanketing an entire town with mail solicitations offering discounted work (it doesn't always have to be much if they aren't getting bids or the job is real nasty....just get the contact).


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## treevet (Dec 10, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> Hey, I have got it, we are composing a top selling country song. Hurry someone call Willie were gonna be rich On a lighter note: got to go grind some stumps, whilst the grounds froze. Not sure I am going bankrupt yet but it does appear grim. It started because I did not like climbing everything then wanted a grapple truck to get brush up faster. It was working in the old economy but hell, I guess we will likely all be in the poor house when this term is over. Oh well there is always disability lol.



and impeachment:chainsawguy:


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## treeslayer (Dec 10, 2009)

Want to see where all the stimulus $$ went? go to Northern VA, outside Wash. DC and look at all the road improvements, EVERY interstate ramp is being rebuilt, multiple big cranes, and lots of new heavy equipment everywhere, on every site. I counted a dozen brand new Cat 14 motor graders alone. 

and maybe 20 constuction guys working............ who got the $$? people already rich, business owners:chainsawguy:


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## tree MDS (Dec 10, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> Lol and I thought I was sick lmfao. Hell; I may as well laugh, hurts too much to cry. We do it to ourselves; should of known the economy was going bust. Hindsight 20 20, if I keep the farm and some of my toys I will be ok. I wish now I would have just climbed everything, I was rollin in dough back then but way too tired to spend it. Come to think of it, that ain't bad either lol



I wish you the best of luck rope.

We've talked about this before, but I'll say it again: I cant wait till I'm done with the payment thing. Just plain sick of being under it all the time. Its not that I regret the purchases I've made, I just want to get back to more simple times. Less than two years on the chipper and about two years and nine months left on the bucket. I want to say I'll probably just buy something else...but this year and some of the so called competition have really made me wonder about this biz (getting sick of competing with the likes of "affordable tree" and "the tree assassin").


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## Blakesmaster (Dec 10, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> I wish you the best of luck rope.
> 
> We've talked about this before, but I'll say it again: I cant wait till I'm done with the payment thing. Just plain sick of being under it all the time. Its not that I regret the purchases I've made, I just want to get back to more simple times. Less than two years on the chipper and about two years and nine months left on the bucket. I want to say I'll probably just buy something else...but this year and some of the so called competition have really made me wonder about this biz (getting sick of competing with the likes of "affordable tree" and "the tree assassin").



That's why I'm glad we're just building as we go without the bank. Yeah, our one ton and little stumper may make us look like your everyday hacks but if they sit for a month or two the only thing that hurts is my personal finances, not the business. I've been repairing and cleaning apartments for my landlord for the past few days to cover rent, my freezer's full of venison and there's rice and beans in the pantry, so while I may not have money to expand my empire or even go out and have a little fun, I"m not gonna starve or go bankrupt. And I don't mind the taste of Evan Williams either, lol.


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## treeslayer (Dec 10, 2009)

Blakesmaster said:


> , my freezer's full of venison, And I don't mind the taste of Evan Williams either, lol.



got drunk, and swerved to hit a deer, way to go my man! 

redneck treeclimber all the way bro!


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## Blakesmaster (Dec 10, 2009)

treeslayer said:


> got drunk, and swerved to hit a deer, way to go my man!
> 
> redneck treeclimber all the way bro!



Cute man, but no, I learned my lesson with that #### a few years ago. Still dealing with bull#### from that .10 blow. I don't hunt but a lot of friends do and they always toss me way too much meat every season. I got 2 lbs. of elk burger left from last year's harvest and then I'm into the fresh stuff. Hells yes! As far as the Evan, #### that stuff's only 15 bucks a bottle and a few nips a night will set me straight. lol Get ta work ya lazy bum!


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## tree MDS (Dec 10, 2009)

Blakesmaster said:


> That's why I'm glad we're just building as we go without the bank. Yeah, our one ton and little stumper may make us look like your everyday hacks but if they sit for a month or two the only thing that hurts is my personal finances, not the business. I've been repairing and cleaning apartments for my landlord for the past few days to cover rent, my freezer's full of venison and there's rice and beans in the pantry, so while I may not have money to expand my empire or even go out and have a little fun, I"m not gonna starve or go bankrupt. And I don't mind the taste of Evan Williams either, lol.



That works for a while and can be nice, but after a decade or so its sorta like do or fade away. I didnt want to be a tired old climber with nothing to show for the years equipment wise. It will be nice when its over though, looks like I pay 19200 (lets just call it 20 grand) a year for equipment. Sure will be nice to get that extra income back someday. Maybe I'll have a good year next year and try and just pay all that stuff off once and for all.

Who's Evan Williams??


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## Blakesmaster (Dec 10, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> That works for a while and can be nice, but after a decade or so its sorta like do or fade away. I didnt want to be a tired old climber with nothing to show for the years equipment wise. It will be nice when its over though, looks like I pay 19200 (lets just call it 20 grand) a year for equipment. Sure will be nice to get that extra income back someday. Maybe I'll have a good year next year and try and just pay all that stuff off once and for all.
> 
> Who's Evan Williams??









Ah, just a good ol' Kantuckee boy I met a while back. As far as equipment, I do plan on taking a small loan out next year for a nice dingo. I'm hoping to pick up a used bucket on the cheap with cash after spring breaks loose and there's some dough in the bank, then I might borrow for the dingo. Hopefully at that point I won't be needing to whore myself out to other local company's and can focus on my gig full time. That's the plan anyway.


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## tree MDS (Dec 10, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> Smart!
> 
> 
> 
> I've been debt free since 1997.



How many years have you been in business though?


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## Sunrise Guy (Dec 10, 2009)

treevet said:


> Maybe what it takes Sunrise, is doing a little of a number of things. Tatooing is a very artistic endeavor, tree work is (when done properly) a very high skill and knowledge needing job. You said you were doing ok when you were just doing tree work part time with the tatoo ing. That may be the way to go and add some more. I think of someone that cares enough to have a lab and you must have been good with the ink too.
> 
> I have tried to diversify with the firewood and the big investment in the Timberwolf stuff. Sales are way down this year due to the glut last year with a hurricane. Also oil prices dropped. I went into planting trees and even added a hydraulic pincher to the dingo and cutting holes with the stumper. The town decides to solicit nurseries to compete to offer wholesale prices on planted trees for next to nothing.
> 
> Maybe next is chimney cleaning with the bucket, reconditioning other's equipment, sale of fireplace accessories (tree gear sales is glutted), offering to get trees down and pruning for all the landscape companies in the area and they do the rest. Hell, I don't know much beyond tree work (nothing really). My next ploy is blanketing an entire town with mail solicitations offering discounted work (it doesn't always have to be much if they aren't getting bids or the job is real nasty....just get the contact).



As I write this, my tattooing rig is on Craigslist for a $1000. It's a ten cents on the dollar "give away." I just did what I wanted to do in the skin game and I'm played out on it. I am saving a few machines, needles and ink if the spirit hits me, in the future, but I doubt that it will. Yeah, tree work, when done well, is an artistic endeavor, too. Folks always tell me, "You're not only an arborist, but an artist!" after they see how great their trees look. Trouble is, these days, when Jose quotes them $100 for a hack job that I've quoted $650 on to do it right, artistic sensibilities just fly away with the wind. And so it goes----


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## ropensaddle (Dec 10, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> I got in the tree biz in 1987 and never a loan! If I couldn't pay cash I didn't buy. It's been a lifelong philosophy. I've never had a vehicle loan...my only loans have been on real estate purchases. I also grow as much of my own food as I can even though the return per hour for the labor is low.....there is a lot more to it than return on labor!
> 
> I not knocking those who get loans, to each their own.....it's just that interest paid is money lost, IMO. The philosophy of borrowing money to make money on that money has bitten many in the ass and it's very evident in the current state of the economy. I spent a few hours with a real estate commercial broker yesterday looking over a defunct greenhouse operation and gleaned quite a bit of inside info about happenings in the Atlanta area. I don't feel real sorry for most of the overextended examples I was told about. I do feel for my tree brothers though. I feel we are taking a big hit in this industry.....and in more ways than one.
> 
> ...



I was doing it that way too, I worked 40 at a regular job 13 years and was climbing 30 more hours every weekend. I was flat rolling in the dough but my 85 f350 went down in winter. I did not want to roll on the ground in freezing temps to repair it. So started the downward spiral and truth is Ford motor company put a huge hurt on my finances. Not just buying a new truck but they sell you a 50.000 vehicle that ain't worth spit. It stranded me out of state costing me thousands for the second time in five thousand miles. Friggin robbery imo warranty won't cover the expenses, including rental, even though it was a warranted repair. Anyway, I have learned and as soon as; I either turn around or go on welfare it won't happen again. I had spotless credit, I probably could go on for hours explaining but it is moot, I tried which if I had not I would be wondering what owning a business was like. I may hit the lotto who knows probably a better gamble than a legit business with the invasion our leaders allow.


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## Behemoth Jim (Dec 10, 2009)

Hope it picks up for you's guys. We've been doing ok so far. We're still losing work because of not getting around to it quick enough. But sooner or later we'll be in the same place as you-- and maybe about then you all will have a little something. I just happen to live in one of those areas with fast-growing, viral trees and there's a lot of room for a lot of companies around here. Now-- don't everybody move here at once, or you'll just bring your poverty with you! Lol. But that's what happened with the building contractors-- our state held out for a year or so after the building boom went bust a while ago-- we had housing contractors moving in here from Michigan, Florida, and other places trying to get in on it-- and it all fell apart, leaving old steadies and new imports alike standing out in the rain. Well, I guess we need a good ice storm or something!


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## treevet (Dec 11, 2009)

That is true. But ice storms are such a delicate mixture of moisture and appropriate temp at just the right time.

It is raining, temps are dropping, does it turn to snow, does it stop precipitating
just before accumulation is at critical mass to cause breakage.

I have been in so many and watched so many almost happen that I can watch the situation and when they are claiming here comes an ice storm, I can say it is gonna be close ....but not this time. In a town like mine they can be as exciting as a hurricane of which we have had both recently. It literally rains leaders and drizzles limbs.....they are amazing to watch...and listen to.


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## ozarktreeman (Dec 11, 2009)

treevet said:


> That is true. But ice storms are such a delicate mixture of moisture and appropriate temp at just the right time.
> 
> It is raining, temps are dropping, does it turn to snow, does it stop precipitating
> just before accumulation is at critical mass to cause breakage.
> ...





Sat though one in my home town last jan,your right something to behold.started and prayed for a little more and after a while prayed for it to STOP!
No power and the middle of the night you don't know where it's comin from but you hear it and know it;s big on the way down,crash.
It's a little different than pulling into a town after the fact,sitting through one a little amazing and frightful at the same time,when there is nothing surrounding you but tree,s.:jawdrop:


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## treevet (Dec 11, 2009)

The last one we had found business types trying to get to work in the am while they were still falling a hundred feet at times into a driveway covered in debris.

Had to clear the drive or someone else would service your client. Hard to listen while a ms200 is screaming. Sheeaht raining down all around you. Kinda like swimming in a river with alligators.

One customer calls me and a huge leader fell on her house and went thru the roof. I get there and it is still attached 40 feet up and laying high all over the roof. Well the 2 feet of snow starts melting and guess where it is going.....just pouring into the living room.

We got it off nervously with a subbed crane and me climbing off the hook and sometimes in the canopy with spikes on ....no guilt either.


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## jomoco (Dec 11, 2009)

treevet said:


> We got it off nervously with a subbed crane and me climbing off the hook and sometimes in the canopy with spikes on ....no guilt either.



So you finally admit that when the going gets tough, you slap those gaffs on like Clearance does in his high production mode!

Al shigo is not gonna like this new side of you Treevet old buddy!

jomoco:greenchainsaw:


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## treevet (Dec 11, 2009)

jomoco said:


> So you finally admit that when the going gets tough, you slap those gaffs on like Clearance does in his high production mode!
> 
> Al shigo is not gonna like this new side of you Treevet old buddy!
> 
> jomoco:greenchainsaw:



with 3 inches of ice encapsulating the entire tree the options were few. do you even know who al shigo is?


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## Mike Cantolina (Dec 11, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> I got in the tree biz in 1987 and never a loan! If I couldn't pay cash I didn't buy. It's been a lifelong philosophy. I've never had a vehicle loan...my only loans have been on real estate purchases. I also grow as much of my own food as I can even though the return per hour for the labor is low.....there is a lot more to it than return on labor!
> 
> I not knocking those who get loans, to each their own.....it's just that interest paid is money lost, IMO. The philosophy of borrowing money to make money on that money has bitten many in the ass and it's very evident in the current state of the economy. I spent a few hours with a real estate commercial broker yesterday looking over a defunct greenhouse operation and gleaned quite a bit of inside info about happenings in the Atlanta area. I don't feel real sorry for most of the overextended examples I was told about. I do feel for my tree brothers though. I feel we are taking a big hit in this industry.....and in more ways than one.
> 
> ...



Great post Treeco!


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## treemandan (Dec 11, 2009)

Come on, don't start with that. A good tree guy knows when to put on his spikes and knows when to leave them off.


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## TreeClimber57 (Dec 11, 2009)

treemandan said:


> Come on, don't start with that. A good tree guy knows when to put on his spikes and knows when to leave them off.



Agreed!!


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## ropensaddle (Dec 11, 2009)

treemandan said:


> Come on, don't start with that. A good tree guy knows when to put on his spikes and knows when to leave them off.



Lol don't walk with them


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## treevet (Dec 11, 2009)

Probably don't want to bang the old lady with em on either.:hmm3grin2orange:


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 11, 2009)

Funny Massive de-rails.opcorn:
Jeff


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## treemandan (Dec 11, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> Lol don't walk with them



I like to do The Can Can in them.


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## treevet (Dec 11, 2009)

video pls.


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## fishercat (Dec 11, 2009)

*major storms seem to go around wherever i live,*

i have a fascination with them but they just seem to avoid me.i'm kind of glad though.i hate to see folks get hurt or suffer in anyway.not worth any amount of money to me.

what really saddens me is the vultures.when i do go to storm damage jobs,i charge just like i would under normal circumstances.i don't believe in gouging people after they have already been through hell.it's just plain wrong in my book.


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## ozarktreeman (Dec 12, 2009)

fishercat said:


> what really saddens me is the vultures.when i do go to storm damage jobs,i charge just like i would under normal circumstances.i don't believe in gouging people after they have already been through hell.it's just plain wrong in my book.





I'm with you on that,call me a bad businessman or a softy,whatever.I have to sleep at night,and the way I conduct business I have no problem sleeping.
I have a price per hour and when out of town I will adjust to cover expenses.And will sleep like a 10pound ###### baby! With no guilt that I have taken advantage of someone.
I Know that must be against some kinda code or something but wtf.


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## Behemoth Jim (Dec 12, 2009)

ozarktreeman said:


> Sat though one in my home town last jan,your right something to behold.started and prayed for a little more and after a while prayed for it to STOP!
> No power and the middle of the night you don't know where it's comin from but you hear it and know it;s big on the way down,crash.
> It's a little different than pulling into a town after the fact,sitting through one a little amazing and frightful at the same time,when there is nothing surrounding you but tree,s.:jawdrop:



Yeah, I've been through about three big ones now-- only one while I was a tree worker. several things that are amazing-- one is watching a limb break off the top of a white pine, then it hits successive branches on its way down, and they all break off like dominoes falling. Bam bam bam bam bam. Another is all those bradford pears with their limbs all lying around them like they're dragging their knuckles on the ground. Then there is the 42" diameter 100' tulip poplar that falls across the road into the other peoples' yard and misses everything but an old volkswagen-- but if it had fallen the other direction, it would have cut their house in half. . . . . . .

sorry for the derail. Maybe there's an ice storm thread somewhere. . . . .


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## treeslayer (Dec 12, 2009)

ozarktreeman said:


> I'm with you on that,call me a bad businessman or a softy,whatever.I have to sleep at night,and the way I conduct business I have no problem sleeping.
> I have a price per hour and when out of town I will adjust to cover expenses.And will sleep like a 10pound ###### baby! With no guilt that I have taken advantage of someone.
> I Know that must be against some kinda code or something but wtf.



:agree2:
I travel to a LOT of storms, and my theory is be fair and work 12-16 hours a day, every day. thats how you make money, being in the right place at the right time. $100 -$150 per hour x 80+ hours is enough.


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## Behemoth Jim (Dec 12, 2009)

treeslayer said:


> :agree2:
> I travel to a LOT of storms, and my theory is be fair and work 12-16 hours a day, every day. thats how you make money, being in the right place at the right time. $100 -$150 per hour x 80+ hours is enough.



You getting any ice up there tonight, TS? The weather said you might.
:chainsawguy:


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