# Got the green light on second crane job..



## Customcuts (Aug 23, 2012)

So I had went to bid a crane job about 2 weeks ago, I bid $2250.00.. waited a week then checked back with customer.. He tells me someone is going to take the tree down for $900.00 for him.....:angry2:...
So I remind him that if I had to come out to remove a limb from his roof with a crane it was going to be extra...lol... I told him ok fair enough and then told him that it sounded too good to be true.. well about 
5days later he calls me saying that his "tree guy" couldn't find a "climber".. hmmm strange because I know who the other company is and the owner is the climber.. I guess he realized he bit off more than he could chew...:hmm3grin2orange: so I stuck to my price and got the job.:msp_thumbup: just waiting to hear back from my crane op. To get it scheduled.. can't believe my luck.. View attachment 249746
View attachment 249747
View attachment 249748


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## Customcuts (Aug 23, 2012)

tachments/arborist-101/249747-maple2-jpg[/IMG]


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## 2treeornot2tree (Aug 23, 2012)

Doesnt even look that big. Just going by the pics, i wouldn't even get a crane in for that. I would either climb it or rent a small portable lift if i felt it wasnt safe to climb. It would sure be alot more money in your pocket. Must be a pretty big crane to reach way over the house like that.


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## deevo (Aug 23, 2012)

Customcuts said:


> tachments/arborist-101/249747-maple2-jpg[/IMG]



Good for you for locking that one up! We had the same situation happen. Only way was to to crane out a big ash over a tennis court/pool. Told him $2800.00 calls me 2 days later saying another company would do it for $1600.00. Calls me back yesterday saying they couldn't do it now and wants us to do it! Hmmmmm sounds something like your situation. All works out in the end! If you have a 40-60 ton crane you should have lots of boom to pull off some decent sized pics out of that. What size crane are you using? Take lots of pics for us!


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## KenJax Tree (Aug 23, 2012)

2treeornot2tree said:


> Doesnt even look that big. Just going by the pics, i wouldn't even get a crane in for that. I would either climb it or rent a small portable lift if i felt it wasnt safe to climb. It would sure be alot more money in your pocket. Must be a pretty big crane to reach way over the house like that.



I was gonna say it don't look that big, i would just climb it and piece it out over the house. Its your call customcuts do what works for you but of i could climb that and take $2250 i'd be all over it.


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## Customcuts (Aug 23, 2012)

It's not a huge tree, and the pics make it seem a lot further out than it really is.... IMO it would be alot more efficient to use a crane for a couple of different reasons. (1) there is quite a few small fruit and veg. plants,powerlines,etc....... underneath it that can not be damaged. (2) there isn't a T.I.P. that I would feel very comfortable tying in to. (3). And as for rigging it I wouldn't feel comfortable rigging anything worth the effort off of the limbs going out over the roof...(4). I don't have enough experience under my belt where I would feel confident climbing and rigging it. I'm sure some of you guys could probably rig it out no problem. I however am not at that skill level yet.. the furthest limb from the street is about 60 ft so crane should have no problems... Oh and I'm leaving it about 18ft tall, customer just wants the potential hazards taken off. So all the trunk wood is staying. Thanks for you guys feedback. I'll have the video up either mon. Or tues.


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## Customcuts (Aug 23, 2012)

deevo said:


> Good for you for locking that one up! We had the same situation happen. Only way was to to crane out a big ash over a tennis court/pool. Told him $2800.00 calls me 2 days later saying another company would do it for $1600.00. Calls me back yesterday saying they couldn't do it now and wants us to do it! Hmmmmm sounds something like your situation. All works out in the end! If you have a 40-60 ton crane you should have lots of boom to pull off some decent sized pics out of that. What size crane are you using? Take lots of pics for us!



28 TON MANITOWOC should be able get the tops out in 8 pics. Maybe less


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## deevo (Aug 23, 2012)

Customcuts said:


> 28 TON MANITOWOC should be able get the tops out in 8 pics. Maybe less



Cool, yeah go for it, be safe and have fun! Should have it dismantled pretty quick then


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## Customcuts (Aug 23, 2012)

*Video*

[video=youtube;dueBWjtRTSI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dueBWjtRTSI&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/video]


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## Customcuts (Aug 27, 2012)

*Ready for Tomorrow*

Tomorrow's the big day, my second crane assist... Looking forward to it, I hope the guys who backed out come by and see me in action.... I will also have my wife and Dad there to film and get pics.....as well as my gopro... Should have the video up by tomorrow night. Wish me luck


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## rtsims (Aug 27, 2012)

Well how did it go? You better not still be working! Haha just kiddin. Looking forward to hearing about it.


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## Customcuts (Aug 27, 2012)

rtsims said:


> Well how did it go? You better not still be working! Haha just kiddin. Looking forward to hearing about it. :cheer
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## rtsims (Aug 27, 2012)

Well in my opinion you can't be to hard on yourself. It was only your second crane job. No damage, no injuries, and I'm assuming the HO is pleased, job well done in my book. Take what you have learned, and work on it the next go. Safety is first, then efficiency. Always remember that.


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## Customcuts (Aug 28, 2012)

rtsims said:


> Well in my opinion you can't be to hard on yourself. It was only your second crane job. No damage, no injuries, and I'm assuming the HO is pleased, job well done in my book. Take what you have learned, and work on it the next go. Safety is first, then efficiency. Always remember that.



Thanks, your right about that.. I'll keep that in mind... I just watched the clips and it really wasn't as bad as I thought..... I'm working on video now


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## Customcuts (Aug 28, 2012)

*Video*

Well here it is, I know I should have used the 441 more but the 200 with a sharp chain sure did seem a lot better....[video=youtube;cFjkIs65Acs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFjkIs65Acs&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/video]


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## 2treeornot2tree (Aug 28, 2012)

not to bad. 

Need to work on your hand signals for the crane. I thought one time you were raising your hand singing hola loya without the singing part. Looks like you could work on your cuts a little too, but it all takes time to learn and everytime you do it you get better.

Good work, you didnt get killed or kill anyone else and no property damage.


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## Customcuts (Aug 28, 2012)

2treeornot2tree said:


> not to bad.
> 
> Need to work on your hand signals for the crane. I thought one time you were raising your hand singing hola loya without the singing part. Looks like you could work on your cuts a little too, but it all takes time to learn and everytime you do it you get better.
> 
> Good work, you didnt get killed or kill anyone else and no property damage.




Yeah, I think I'm going to stick with the mismatch cuts, I had more issues trying to cut strait thru this time. Last time I didn't have any issues with the mismatch cut then letting the CO winch it up to break it loose.. I know people on here will tell me not too but I liked it a lot better than the strait thru. Thanks for watching


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## rtsims (Aug 28, 2012)

All those tip heavy pieces you cut and the butt jumped up at your face would have made me pee myself. Almost looked as if a few pieces flipped. Were you using 2 slings on those? Enjoyed watching.


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## chief116 (Aug 28, 2012)

I like your first video better. i stopped watching around 5 mins in.

First minute scared the hell out of me. Both ties ins a few inches below the cut? Please don't do that again. Your lanyard could have gone under the limb you left.

You need to work on sling/choker placement. Either take more wood, or get those slings further out on the limbs. Way too much movement in those picks.

Keep your damn hands away from the piece! 

If you are going to keep up with the mismatched cuts, get out of the way! 2 steps down and a slide over to the left, THEN signal the op and you'll keep those teeth a little longer. With those brush heavy picks, when the op cables up to break your holding wood, that butt is going to come up fast and directly back at you. And the more tension he needs to put on it, the faster its going to happen.

Learn where the pressure is going to be. Also goes with sling placement. Cut the tension wood maybe 1/3 of the way through, then back cut straight through and you will get the saw stuck a lot less.

Be careful out there.


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## Customcuts (Aug 28, 2012)

rtsims said:


> All those tip heavy pieces you cut and the butt jumped up at your face would have made me pee myself. Almost looked as if a few pieces flipped. Were you using 2 slings on those? Enjoyed watching.



Yeah, I need to work on sling placement for sure...a couple pieces did flip. I'm glad I am able to record my work and have others who have more experience tell me what to work on.. It really helps. Thanks


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## KenJax Tree (Aug 28, 2012)

You're learning and will get better, like other said though you need to move your flipline away from your cuts and get away from the piece being picked drop down a few steps and signal to move it, i don't want to see you get grill busted up.


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## Customcuts (Aug 28, 2012)

chief116 said:


> I like your first video better. i stopped watching around 5 mins in.
> 
> First minute scared the hell out of me. Both ties ins a few inches below the cut? Please don't do that again. Your lanyard could have gone under the limb you left.
> 
> ...




You got it chief, I agree 100% with what you are saying. Especially sling placement... The last one I did was all deadwood with no leaves, so it was easier to judge IMO.... So your saying cut down a third of the way through on laterals then backcut upwards strait through?? I'll try that next Time. So that cut u are describing to me along with proper sling placement should keep that butt from coming at me? Your advice is not being taken for granted.. Thanks alot, I appreciate it..


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## no tree to big (Aug 29, 2012)

until you figure out your sling placement keep your face below the cuts... well even after you get it smoothed out. I would much rather have to cut at head height then get ##### slapped with a piece that did something you didn't want it to do

as others pointed out you had a lot of stuff flipping on you. if you cant sling that thing higher take the biggest piece you can, I noticed you were leaving a few logs that could have been cut down to the next crotch that may have been enough extra weight to keep it balanced... 

and try to avoid having the crane op pull that last bit of fiber just cut it no reason to have stuff popping off the tree 

if I posted a vid of the way we do crane removals there would be a major chit storm it is in no way by the book but as long as the crane op and climber/bucket guy are on the same page it is smooth as silk


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## Customcuts (Aug 29, 2012)

no tree to big said:


> until you figure out your sling placement keep your face below the cuts... well even after you get it smoothed out. I would much rather have to cut at head height then get ##### slapped with a piece that did something you didn't want it to do
> 
> as others pointed out you had a lot of stuff flipping on you. if you cant sling that thing higher take the biggest piece you can, I noticed you were leaving a few logs that could have been cut down to the next crotch that may have been enough extra weight to keep it balanced...
> 
> ...



I had pieces flip on me because I wasn't taking into consideration where I was going to place my cut when I set the sling, I was just looking for a good strong part of the limb to choke onto.. I also think I could have had the C.O. not put so much tension on the limb before I cut..... I can't wait until my next one , I hope to improve a lot by my next one... Like I said before, I'm glad I record these jobs so I can study them and learn what NOT to do...lol...Thanks for ur input..

[video=youtube;t5aAWi6jCC8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5aAWi6jCC8&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/video]


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## chief116 (Aug 29, 2012)

Agreed you could take some more weight, and that would eliminate alot of the lateral picks.

Figure out where the tension is. Generally speaking its opposite the sling, but can vary depending where the tip of the boom is. Cut that side 1/3. Too much more and you'll be pinched as the crane is pulling the piece. Cut straight through, lining up your cut fairly close. 

For straight out horizontal lateral picks, i like to see a face cut, then leave a good amount of holding wood. Stand the pick up, it'll break on its own, and let it fly away.


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## Customcuts (Aug 29, 2012)

chief116 said:


> Agreed you could take some more weight, and that would eliminate alot of the lateral picks.
> 
> Figure out where the tension is. Generally speaking its opposite the sling, but can vary depending where the tip of the boom is. Cut that side 1/3. Too much more and you'll be pinched as the crane is pulling the piece. Cut straight through, lining up your cut fairly close.
> 
> For straight out horizontal lateral picks, i like to see a face cut, then leave a good amount of holding wood. Stand the pick up, it'll break on its own, and let it fly away.



I like the facecut for horizontals idea, my last video I did One and was told it wasn't a good idea,,
I don't see how it isn't tho? It worked great for me when I did it.. I think I will stick to that on horizontals and mismatch on laterals until I get better and more comfortable with my cuts.. I also think I had too much tension on most of the pics... Could u imaging if I didn't have this site or u guys to give me advice? I probably would have never even attempted crane work... Thank you guys so much! Hopefully one day soon I will post a video that will not be do "scary" to watch...:wink2:


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## KenJax Tree (Aug 29, 2012)

You'll get better we have all been there before but you gotta be scary before you're good right? Just do what works for you if its a face cut or mismatched cut or whatever, what works for me 
might not work for you but the import at thing is however you do it, do it safe and get home thats what really matters. Keep up the hard work and you'll get it all figured out you learn as you go.


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## no tree to big (Aug 29, 2012)

chief116 said:


> For straight out horizontal lateral picks, i like to see a face cut, then leave a good amount of holding wood. Stand the pick up, it'll break on its own, and let it fly away.



most of the time for stuff like that we don't even make a notch we just under cut leaving say 2-3" of wood and winch up that way if the piece does not end up perfectly straight up and down you still have a chance to adjust before it is released now 99% of the crane removals I do as a crane op are elms so you have a lot of bend vs breaking. doing things like that I would not really recommend for the crane op that does not do trees very often I run our crane 5 days a week so you tend to get a good rhythm going


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## chief116 (Aug 29, 2012)

Customcuts, i may have been the one to tell you not to use a face cut, but i don't remember considering the one in your video a "tough" pick that i would've used one on. Its pretty rare that I use one, actually, its usually on huge oaks that i do. A lot of times, from your videos alone, i can't say i would make the same cut in the same place as you did. Learn the crane capacity and start estimating weights, confirm with op. Then you'll able to look and say "i believe this is 3500 here, it'd be about 4800 under this lateral at my feet" The op can yay or nay you, and then do it all over again.



no tree to big said:


> most of the time for stuff like that we don't even make a notch we just under cut leaving say 2-3" of wood and winch up that way if the piece does not end up perfectly straight up and down you still have a chance to adjust before it is released now 99% of the crane removals I do as a crane op are elms so you have a lot of bend vs breaking. doing things like that I would not really recommend for the crane op that does not do trees very often I run our crane 5 days a week so you tend to get a good rhythm going



As an op i prefer having it cut. Sometimes that #### don't let go and then the crane gets bouncy. Not a fan of the bouncy. A lot of things we do on a daily basis are just plain terrible ideas, but with time you'll know exactly what the machine can do and pretty close to what the piece will weigh. I'm comfortable that my op knows exactly what i'm going to do, and conversely, the main crane monkey and i have trust in each other. The longer custom works with his op, the better he will get.


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## mr. holden wood (Aug 29, 2012)

Customcuts said:


> So I had went to bid a crane job about 2 weeks ago, I bid $2250.00.. waited a week then checked back with customer.. He tells me someone is going to take the tree down for $900.00 for him.....:angry2:...
> So I remind him that if I had to come out to remove a limb from his roof with a crane it was going to be extra...lol... I told him ok fair enough and then told him that it sounded too good to be true.. well about
> 5days later he calls me saying that his "tree guy" couldn't find a "climber".. hmmm strange because I know who the other company is and the owner is the climber.. I guess he realized he bit off more than he could chew...:hmm3grin2orange: so I stuck to my price and got the job.:msp_thumbup: just waiting to hear back from my crane op. To get it scheduled.. can't believe my luck.. View attachment 249746
> View attachment 249747
> View attachment 249748



The best advice you will ever get is hire a c.o with plenty of tree removal experience. The guy I use makes me look good, my first day he told me where to choke and where to cut. That op should of stopped you on most of those picks. Good luck out there, stay out of the way of the load and keep em butt heavy.


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## Customcuts (Aug 30, 2012)

KenJax Tree said:


> You'll get better we have all been there before but you gotta be scary before you're good right? Just do what works for you if its a face cut or mismatched cut or whatever, what works for me
> might not work for you but the import at thing is however you do it, do it safe and get home thats what really matters. Keep up the hard work and you'll get it all figured out you learn as you go.




You sure are right KenJax, thanks.....


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## no tree to big (Aug 30, 2012)

chief116 said:


> As an op i prefer having it cut. Sometimes that #### don't let go and then the crane gets bouncy. Not a fan of the bouncy. A lot of things we do on a daily basis are just plain terrible ideas, but with time you'll know exactly what the machine can do and pretty close to what the piece will weigh. I'm comfortable that my op knows exactly what i'm going to do, and conversely, the main crane monkey and i have trust in each other. The longer custom works with his op, the better he will get.



I remember the first time I as an op pulled that last little bit and the first time I was in the bucket and the op pulled the last little bit in both places it will make your eyes open up a bit. I inadvertently yanked one today but I couldn't see through the canopy to see what the piece was actually doing so I set up so no matter what happened when it came loose it was away from the climber well it got away from the climber real fast :msp_scared: it was some nasty twisted oddly weighted thing that we probably should have made 3 small picks for instead of one big one, O well time is money right?


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## Customcuts (Aug 30, 2012)

no tree to big said:


> I remember the first time I as an op pulled that last little bit and the first time I was in the bucket and the op pulled the last little bit in both places it will make your eyes open up a bit. I inadvertently yanked one today but I couldn't see through the canopy to see what the piece was actually doing so I set up so no matter what happened when it came loose it was away from the climber well it got away from the climber real fast :msp_scared: it was some nasty twisted oddly weighted thing that we probably should have made 3 small picks for instead of one big one, O well time is money right?



Yeah, the biggest pick I took was about 22" where I cut it. I used 20"bar to cit thru. I thought I had cut thru so I signaled to winch up..plus my saw was stuck:mad2: so I signaled for more pull upwards. Bar came free and I continued to cut then BAM!:msp_w00t: pick shot strait up about 4ft... I thought for sure crane was gonna tip.... But it didn't as u can see.. Thank God.. scary stuff for sure!


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## chief116 (Aug 30, 2012)

no tree to big said:


> I remember the first time I as an op pulled that last little bit and the first time I was in the bucket and the op pulled the last little bit in both places it will make your eyes open up a bit. I inadvertently yanked one today but I couldn't see through the canopy to see what the piece was actually doing so I set up so no matter what happened when it came loose it was away from the climber well it got away from the climber real fast :msp_scared: it was some nasty twisted oddly weighted thing that we probably should have made 3 small picks for instead of one big one, O well time is money right?



ha been down that road! I had an oopsie moment too! 8600lb pine butt. Figured it would be around 7k. LMI alarm was going nuts, had to play with it for a few to get it to land. wouldn't have been too bad if the bucket wasn't in the way. Got it down, had to cut it in 3 to get it on the log truck.Time is money for sure!


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## chief116 (Aug 30, 2012)

Customcuts said:


> Yeah, the biggest pick I took was about 22" where I cut it. I used 20"bar to cit thru. I thought I had cut thru so I signaled to winch up..plus my saw was stuck:mad2: so I signaled for more pull upwards. Bar came free and I continued to cut then BAM!:msp_w00t: pick shot strait up about 4ft... I thought for sure crane was gonna tip.... But it didn't as u can see.. Thank God.. scary stuff for sure!



I generally use a 372 with a 24"bar, thats why i recommended using the 20" over the 200t. Ask any woman, a couple inches more is never a bad thing.


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## Customcuts (Aug 30, 2012)

chief116 said:


> I generally use a 372 with a 24"bar, thats why i recommended using the 20" over the 200t. Ask any woman, a couple inches more is never a bad thing.



Looks like I need a 25"bar now.... I guess ill get a 25" when I get a 362 then swap it for the 20 I have on my 441... So then ill have a 362 with 20" and 441 with 25".....I'm also looking to get an 18" for the 362..


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## KenJax Tree (Aug 30, 2012)

Customcuts said:


> Looks like I need a 25"bar now.... I guess ill get a 25" when I get a 362 then swap it for the 20 I have on my 441... So then ill have a 362 with 20" and 441 with 25".....I'm also looking to get an 18" for the 362..



Get a 562xp instead of a 362.


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## 2treeornot2tree (Aug 31, 2012)

You should be able to cut up to 31" diameter or so branch with your 200. I use mine as long as i can before i pull up a heavier saw.


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## Customcuts (Aug 31, 2012)

KenJax Tree said:


> Get a 562xp instead of a 362.



There isn't any husky dealers close to be besides Lowes, and they would have to order any xp saws plus no service shop @ Lowes so that's why I haven't used any husky. Everyone around here is stihl or echo and some shindaiwa, redmax , plus there are 5 stihl dealers within 8 miles of my house...


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## Nailsbeats (Aug 31, 2012)

Skip that 18" bar idea, it's a waste of time, 20". Don't be afraid to throw a 20" 3/8 setup on a 261, that's what I use after the 200t 16". The 3/8 chain makes all the difference when throwing chips on a vertical crane cut.

I also agree that you need to figure out where you are going to make you cut first, then pick the rigging point to balance the piece accordingly, granted the rigging point you pick is strong enough and able to keep rolling (not flipping) to a minimum. If the rigging point is not sufficient, add 1 or 2 spider leg slings. This will combat rolling, flipping, and give you multiple rigging points for additional strength.

More focus should be payed on rigging/cut points and less on tension. Over-tensioning the pick is the worst and most common mistake of the begginer IMO. The thing is, it can be corrected by reading the cut, taking off a little tension will generally open the kerf allowing your saw to make that "push through" cut that so many (including myself) advocate and also allows the load to settle comfortably into the crane, eliminating most shock load.


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## derwoodii (Sep 4, 2012)

giday customcuts, been thinkin often you'll get your saw bar pinched just as you get to the final important part of yer cut. To avoid this simply use a branch twig right sized pushed deep as can into the back cut, this little act can help stave off the jam and twigs are just every where on the job to be taken as needed. I'll often hold one in my teeth so at the ready. An off shoot of this I can tell many trees species by taste and flavour now, anyhoo nice work, your so keen to share listen & learn you'll be teachin us soon. 

hey u got that crane direct whistle signals sorted yet.


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## derwoodii (Sep 4, 2012)

oh yeah what is that pic in your sig?? they look like black ammo with red bullets?? do tell pls


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## Customcuts (Sep 4, 2012)

derwoodii said:


> giday customcuts, been thinkin often you'll get your saw bar pinched just as you get to the final important part of yer cut. To avoid this simply use a branch twig right sized pushed deep as can into the back cut, this little act can help stave off the jam and twigs are just every where on the job to be taken as needed. I'll often hold one in my teeth so at the ready. An off shoot of this I can tell many trees species by taste and flavour now, anyhoo nice work, your so keen to share listen & learn you'll be teachin us soon.
> 
> hey u got that crane direct whistle signals sorted yet.



Thanks for the tip, I'm always trying to get helpful advice from pros and always open for any advice or critiques anyone can give me....also watching my own videos and listening to u guys advice helps me see what I need to work on. Those bullets you ask about are just standard steel cased fmj 7.62x39 on stripper clips.


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## KenJax Tree (Sep 4, 2012)

Customcuts said:


> Thanks for the tip, I'm always trying to get helpful advice from pros and always open for any advice or critiques anyone can give me....also watching my own videos and listening to u guys advice helps me see what I need to work on. Those bullets you ask about are just standard steel cased fmj 7.62x39 on stripper clips.



I thought all tree guys knew that trick lol. Well i suppose i should tell you that a piece of bark or stick works when cutting a stump off.


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## Customcuts (Sep 4, 2012)

KenJax Tree said:


> I thought all tree guys knew that trick lol. Well i suppose i should tell you that a piece of bark or stick works when cutting a stump off.




I still have alot of learning to do.....and I'm soaking it up like a sponge, thanks fellas.


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## KenJax Tree (Sep 4, 2012)

Customcuts said:


> I still have alot of learning to do.....and I'm soaking it up like a sponge, thanks fellas.



Im just messin' with you, i had to learn once too, actually you never really stop learning.


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## derwoodii (Sep 5, 2012)

> Those bullets you ask about are just standard steel cased fmj 7.62x39 on stripper clips.



Ok a texan with guns who'd thought :msp_biggrin:


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