# Think you've rigged big wood? Try this on for size......



## rbtree (Jul 3, 2016)

Be sure to read the description, and look closely for the dicey parts, which actually were near disasters.

Comments, ideas, questions are welcome.... But may I suggest that any cracks or unfounded criticism will not be ....in part because I doubt if anyone here has been working aloft for 41 years, or has tried anything this ballsy.

Watch in HD, on youtube for best viewing.


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## Zale (Jul 3, 2016)

Yeah, you had a couple of nail bitters there.


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## Groundman One (Jul 3, 2016)

Not bad!


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## Pelorus (Jul 3, 2016)

Curious whether there was much / any significant damage to the spar tree either from the lanyard securing the lowering block, or the GRCS strap? I couldn't tell from watching the video (on an iPad) if you had the GRCS strapped directly to the spar, or some padding underneath it? I know my Hobbs digs in pretty good when cinched really tight.


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## moondoggie (Jul 3, 2016)

Need to fine tune your rigging and operators. Everyone was in danger at least once. Thank God the angels were with you that day. Nice job getting them ready for the mill.


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## BuckmasterStumpGrinding (Jul 3, 2016)

That log rolling down the hill at the end was intense. I have never seen a log roll like that. It would be deadly with the speed it had if someone would have been in the way.


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## rbtree (Jul 3, 2016)

Pelorus said:


> Curious whether there was much / any significant damage to the spar tree either from the lanyard securing the lowering block, or the GRCS strap? I couldn't tell from watching the video (on an iPad) if you had the GRCS strapped directly to the spar, or some padding underneath it? I know my Hobbs digs in pretty good when cinched really tight.



I had the GRCS cut in, but it wouldn't stay tucked in under the shelf. Was really worried about it, but didn't think to tie the top of it off with the static line's end until it had been jerked up on the first pick. And, with it cut in, but not holding in, it was now on a smooth surface, which made it easier for it to slide up.


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## Del_ (Jul 3, 2016)

Awesome!


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## Zale (Jul 3, 2016)

How much did you get for the logs?


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## TimberMcPherson (Jul 4, 2016)

Big bits and ballsy, well done. but was it worth the risk?

you got guys on site without helmets, others walking dogs with cranes and felling happening, and things going wrong, seems alot of risk for someone with so many big jobs under his belt and nothing to prove.



How does that rope handle?


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## ropensaddle (Jul 4, 2016)

RB bet your glad that day is over. I'm right behind you 36 years aloft but my balsy stuff I did years ago big pick wise anyway. I had a time i kept getting bigger and bigger in the early 90s and finally snapped a rope and a 25 foot log fell landing perfectly beside the bucket truck just as my general forman pulled up. He got out and asked what was that lol. I grinned and said I told you I need bigger rope but I knew I was lucky, it could of just as easily laid across the bed of the bucket! I miss my old grapple for the last cut, I would swing mine until it grabbed the log and lay it down with it many times.


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## Hddnis (Jul 4, 2016)

I was entertained. Good to see someone else making big picks off a spar tree to save out some logs.

Worst I ever did was use a leaning poplar to get some big logs out of a white oak. There were so many lines on that poplar it looked like a tailhold for a yarder. We saved the poplar, got the logs down into a tight area safely and made more money on the logs than we did on the job. In fact the logs gave me $3,000 in profit on a job I bid at $2,700. Other bids the owner got ranged up to $6,000 to bring in a large crane, the tree was 100' from the road and putting a crane in there would have shut down the street.


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## DR. P. Proteus (Jul 4, 2016)

After the first heavy shot I was reminded why I rarely leave the house anymore but it was this phrase that makes me really mad: " I underbid the job... and now am adding more risk to the guy I am paying 15 bucks an hour in hopes of recouping my losses."

But I digest.
I do have just one itty bitty teensy weensy question though: IS IT ME?


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## DR. P. Proteus (Jul 4, 2016)

And do you really thing that its all just because you said so?


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## DR. P. Proteus (Jul 4, 2016)

Del_ said:


> Awesome!



That an ambiguous statement if there ever was one.


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## DR. P. Proteus (Jul 4, 2016)




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## rbtree (Jul 5, 2016)

Proteus, You are one good reason why I don't bother with this site much anymore. There is little doubt that I was pulling off rad schite while you were still in diapers..or hell, conceived, for all I know or care.


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## rbtree (Jul 5, 2016)

TimberMcPherson said:


> Big bits and ballsy, well done. but was it worth the risk?
> 
> you got guys on site without helmets, others walking dogs with cranes and felling happening, and things going wrong, seems alot of risk for someone with so many big jobs under his belt and nothing to prove.
> 
> ...



_Probably not worth it. I think I explained most of the problems. As well, I am quite sure the high modulus static line experienced way more shock loading than it should have, or than I expect it to. I full well know that it is not to be shock loaded much if at all, and it was. That, and it being smooth, stiff, small diameter and slippery meant that it was extremely difficult to hold on the old, worn capstan..... which also is not capable of heavy lifts with 5/8th line, let alone larger. That is why, since we needed to pretension the line to get the pieces moving and closer to the rigging point before they tipped into it, that Reg's Stein RC-3001, with its large bollard, and tensioning lever, would have been better suited for the task. Then, we could have used a 7/8th semi static normal poly double braid line_

you got guys on site without helmets, others walking dogs with cranes and felling happening, and things going wrong, seems alot of risk for someone with so many big jobs under his belt and nothing to prove.

_True, but one was the customer, others were an arb bud and his worker who came to watch for a few minutes..no one was ever anywhere close to the work area at a critical time.
_


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## rbtree (Jul 5, 2016)

DR. P. Proteus said:


> After the first heavy shot I was reminded why I rarely leave the house anymore but it was this phrase that makes me really mad: " I underbid the job... and now am adding more risk to the guy I am paying 15 bucks an hour in hopes of recouping my losses."
> 
> But I digest.
> I do have just one itty bitty teensy weensy question though: IS IT ME?



Yawn..... You have no idea what I pay Robert.... and Pat has his own co, so he gets plenty. plus, we'll end up at somewhere close to $85/manhr....acceptable.

I think you might think about locking yourself in.......


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## rbtree (Jul 5, 2016)

ropensaddle said:


> RB bet your glad that day is over. I'm right behind you 36 years aloft but my balsy stuff I did years ago big pick wise anyway. I had a time i kept getting bigger and bigger in the early 90s and finally snapped a rope and a 25 foot log fell landing perfectly beside the bucket truck just as my general forman pulled up. He got out and asked what was that lol. I grinned and said I told you I need bigger rope but I knew I was lucky, it could of just as easily laid across the bed of the bucket! I miss my old grapple for the last cut, I would swing mine until it grabbed the log and lay it down with it many times.



Days, rope... four different ones... a couple hours for the two alders--- $900)back leaning, dead, but those I slayed, safely. Brushing out the firs took one short day, cut short by wind, and 1.5 hours the rigging day. 40 yards of chips, perhaps. Figure $1800 for that. Rigging-- $800 Dropping sticks and loading logs, cutting up firewood. $800. Not great, but about where it should end up, if we net $800 for the wood. Plus, my stump sub will kick back a couple bills from the $850 I priced the stumps for. That will be nice, as I won't be surprised if we only get $650 for the wood. Still can't complain much about $85 manhr, minus $20 to dump the rakings....and minimal travel time.... 2 miles from the shop.


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## DR. P. Proteus (Jul 5, 2016)

rbtree said:


> Proteus, You are one good reason why I don't bother with this site much anymore. There is little doubt that I was pulling off rad schite while you were still in diapers..or hell, conceived, for all I know or care.





rbtree said:


> Yawn..... You have no idea what I pay Robert.... and Pat has his own co, so he gets plenty. plus, we'll end up at somewhere close to $85/manhr....acceptable.
> 
> I think you might think about locking yourself in.......



I know you pay more than 15, its mostly when I heard you say something about underbidding the job I had some sort of agonizing flashback and reacted badly. I apologize. I had no call to treat you like an ordinary chump. And I don't even know what the chopped cheese thing was about, I'll ask my therapist. It was scary to watch this video and hear about the problems.

It sounds like you were over 3K just for the firs without the sale of the logs or stumps which isn't so bad, actually sounds on target. I don't know why you have to go around saying you underbid it, I think that is where the negativity stemmed from.


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## rbtree (Jul 5, 2016)

Apology accepted. It was underbid. Another good company bid about $900 more, in total, including the stumps. The other reason why I decided to take a chance on rigging those four logs was to make enough for a log truck load. And, I hate cutting firewood, especially when it is that large, or if there is a possibility for salvaging the timber.


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## hseII (Jul 5, 2016)

rbtree said:


> Apology accepted. It was underbid. Another good company bid about $900 more, in total, including the stumps. The other reason why I decided to take a chance on rigging those four logs was to make enough for a log truck load. And, I hate cutting firewood, especially when it is that large, or if there is a possibility for salvaging the timber.



After doing that, successfully, I might add, what specifics on equipment & technique would you adjust were you to have the same job again?

I really like my big porta wrap, normally with a stout rigging pulley, but I'm looking into this: 


It's much easier to handle in longer lengths, when the terrain allows.


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## rbtree (Jul 6, 2016)

hsell, I've gone over that, if not here, in the TH and on FB..... and I had a call at 8:30 to go look at a tree fallen across a drive and onto service wires... while my groundie was over and we were barbecuing wild caught Alaska sockeye, corn and asparagus, with real whole grain rice and IPA's or Fat Tire Ale........told them I HAD to eat first... well we did, plumb forgot for two hours til she called... and I rushed over there pronto. The new client is a hot Russian woman and her equally hot mom... at least what flashlight revealed....So, I gotta hit the sack and fantasize about a "trade"

That's my friend Dan Holliday, eloquently presenting double block rigging of and on a single spar. It's essentially "double whip tackle" technique, but utilizing a single stem. It is still negative rigging, and I would never negative rig loads such as we did in any fashion....

Reg Coates also has neg rigged but with twin, separate rigging systems, set opposite sides of the face cut, and controlled with his slick Stein RC 3001 double bollard lowering device. He has done loads approaching the weights of our loads, but shorter, so the center of mass of the loads haven't travelled as far, so have built less kinetic energy in their free fall before coming into the rigging.


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## hseII (Jul 6, 2016)

I've got some big pine to take down in the next few months: I've done some tree rigging, but nothing this large.

These Pines are tall, big, and beautiful.

Too tall to fell due to obstacles. They are close enough to use one as the spare tree as you did.

The LO needs them gone for his reasons, but I cannot bear to just chunk them down. 

I will be erring on the side of caution, but it would be a an absolute shame to not use the logs for lumber. 

I'm debating on blocking them down to a length that would permit felling, and but was looking for possibly another safe alternative. 

A crane is out of the question due to the location.


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## hseII (Jul 6, 2016)

What is TH? 

I don't do FB.


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## DR. P. Proteus (Jul 6, 2016)

hseII said:


> After doing that, successfully, I might add, what specifics on equipment & technique would you adjust were you to have the same job again?
> 
> I really like my big porta wrap, normally with a stout rigging pulley, but I'm looking into this:
> 
> ...




I think this double block technique is absurd. I got into a conversation with this guy, I said that I did think it was a good idea to keep smashing a block like that. He said the block didn't get smashed. If you watch the video, well, the block gets smashed... repeatedly... everytime. Is it me?


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## Pelorus (Jul 6, 2016)

That double block method not my cuppa Joe either. Big waste of time setting up extra rigging for no practical benefit.
The shock loading in the video was wretched. 
With a decent groundman who can properly manage a porty or Hobbs, the world is my oyster.


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## lone wolf (Jul 6, 2016)

moondoggie said:


> Need to fine tune your rigging and operators. Everyone was in danger at least once. Thank God the angels were with you that day. Nice job getting them ready for the mill.


I was waiting for that response. Yup.


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## BC WetCoast (Jul 6, 2016)

hseII said:


> I've got some big pine to take down in the next few months: I've done some tree rigging, but nothing this large.
> 
> These Pines are tall, big, and beautiful.
> 
> ...



No room to block it down in 30' lengths?


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## hseII (Jul 6, 2016)

BC WetCoast said:


> No room to block it down in 30' lengths?



It may be possible; I will share pictures when we start.

I looked at them 2 winters ago, when I was there for major clean up after storms dropped a lot of trees on his property: I'm going off memory. 

The PO was on the fence about leaving them, but has decided he wants them down now.


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## CanopyGorilla (Jul 6, 2016)

I've rigged some pretty big wood, probably close to that size. Also been in some pretty stupid sketchy situations. Honestly I think a lot of stuff in that video looked like it could have been accomplished more safely. I'm not overly impressed by the balls or the skills. I wouldn't even comment if the thread title wasn't so brash and self aggrandizing.


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## ropensaddle (Jul 6, 2016)

Pelorus said:


> That double block method not my cuppa Joe either. Big waste of time setting up extra rigging for no practical benefit.
> The shock loading in the video was wretched.
> With a decent groundman who can properly manage a porty or Hobbs, the world is my oyster.


Heck I don't much care for single even, for what they are paying, I don''t care if a little sod is buggerd. I give them a bomb fee vrs rigged and they say bomb the ****


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## rbtree (Sep 11, 2016)

hseII said:


> After doing that, successfully, I might add, what specifics on equipment & technique would you adjust were you to have the same job again?



Haven't checked in here in a while and see the typical of arbsite BS..... Been swamped with trips, work, and shooting two tree climbing comps with a third coming up in four days. Just back a few days ago from Indianapolis where I shot JAMBO, which was the best and coolest tree comp ever!

What to change? Not rig the first log so high. The way it tipped into the rigging was too much shock loading for that full static line, which, though rated at 29000# tensile after the splice, is not designed for shock loading.. The rest of the picks, though progressively heavier, were well within spec due to the line angles.

Then, there was the problem with not being able to get the GRCS properly sucked into the tree.... It needed a second ratchet strap. I remedied that after the first load with the end of the rigging line. 
Next, the rigging line, being stiff, would barely hold, even with 5 wraps and the self tailer in use. In retrospect, I should have borrowed Dan Kraus's Hobbs, and don't know why I didn't. It's larger bollard would have allowed for 7 wraps....

Next, I had asked Pat to bring his 5/8th lowering line for the butt hitching. Well, it was too short for the first pick, so we had to add another line... which meant we had to install a prussic and cut his line before the knot jammed in the porty. I had a 3/4 200 foot rigging line at home...and should have gone home and gotten it....While we were fixing that problem, the log was resting against the spar, and was somewhat stable, so I felt the risk of standing near it was minimal.

If you want to salvage logs from aloft on your pines, what we did is the only way to do it.... Just use the right lines of proper tensile strengths... if the loads are lighter than what we were dealing with, 5/8th and 3/4 normal double braid lines should be fine.


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## rbtree (Sep 11, 2016)

DR. P. Proteus said:


> I think this double block technique is absurd. I got into a conversation with this guy, I said that I did think it was a good idea to keep smashing a block like that. He said the block didn't get smashed. If you watch the video, well, the block gets smashed... repeatedly... everytime. Is it me?



It certainly did take some abuse. Though the loads were light and those DMM Impact blocks are rugged. I think that Dan ( a good friend and just married to an awesome gal) could have installed the block 10-20% off the direction of fall.....
Reg Coates' (Stein products) technique of double line blocking is better, as the basal friction device (his twin bollard RC-3001 ?) spreads the load among two bollards. 

And, regarding your other comment stating that you don't see the advantage of the technique, note that, except for the load at the portawrap, all other components of the rigging are subjected to half the dynamic loading. Google "double whip tackle" for some explanations....


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## JeffGu (Sep 11, 2016)

rbtree said:


> Google "double whip tackle" for some explanations...



But, if you follow all those B&D and S&M site links... no need to report back on what you learned. You might derail the thread.


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## treebilly (Sep 12, 2016)

Roger I know this thread was posted a while ago, but don't fret the guys worrying about beating a block up. I personally wouldn't have done it that big with out a crane but you saved that cost. What's a new block cost? Less than a crane for the day I'll bet. Even though a lot of guys don't agree with how you do things, I'll give you respect for being an old school bad ass.


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## DR. P. Proteus (Sep 14, 2016)

rbtree said:


> It certainly did take some abuse. Though the loads were light and those DMM Impact blocks are rugged. I think that Dan ( a good friend and just married to an awesome gal) could have installed the block 10-20% off the direction of fall.....
> Reg Coates' (Stein products) technique of double line blocking is better, as the basal friction device (his twin bollard RC-3001 ?) spreads the load among two bollards.
> 
> And, regarding your other comment stating that you don't see the advantage of the technique, note that, except for the load at the portawrap, all other components of the rigging are subjected to half the dynamic loading. Google "double whip tackle" for some explanations....




Never liked Reg's double set up either. Just try to find two guy capable to run it perfectly each time, that'll cost. Plus I wonder if they would secretly hate it because its to much work to get all the knots undone.

With all regards I do not see how using these two small set-ups could in any way be better than using one big rigging set-up. I mean if whatever you are rigging is to much for that rigging then you might want to think about what its attached to.

I can see using Reg's technique in very large conifers using real big ropes but each guy would really have to work together on getting the lines equal. that would be nice.

Man, I worked at this takedown outfit, there was a one legged old man could lower every thing with a 16 strand and fixed bollard... those were old too.


Maybe I am just not the type to buy a block to smash it, maybe I could learn, maybe you could help, maybe you could buy me a block, maybe make it two?

I also see potential for the blocks colliding together and possible rope damage.


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## Reg (Sep 15, 2016)

DR. P. Proteus said:


> Never liked Reg's double set up either. Just try to find two guy capable to run it perfectly each time, that'll cost. Plus I wonder if they would secretly hate it because its to much work to get all the knots undone.
> 
> With all regards I do not see how using these two small set-ups could in any way be better than using one big rigging set-up. I mean if whatever you are rigging is to much for that rigging then you might want to think about what its attached to.
> 
> ...


Dano

The two lines run through the twin bollards and are then joined by an aditional single line held by the groundworker. So the ground guy just holds one line that controls and keeps the two lines running simoulaneous.....you don't need two guys. Probably sounds complicated, but it isn't. I don't like it much either, but sometimes you might need to stop a huge piece suddenly. That's when its useful. 

Never tried that double block thing in the video either. Doesn't really appeal.


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## hseII (Sep 15, 2016)

I've got ISC 3/4" & 5/8" blue blocks, but I wonder if they would withstand the forces of 24" dia Bull Pine @ 20' long?

Probably not, even with my 5/8" Stable Braid.


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## DR. P. Proteus (Sep 16, 2016)

Reg said:


> Dano
> 
> The two lines run through the twin bollards and are then joined by an aditional single line held by the groundworker. So the ground guy just holds one line that controls and keeps the two lines running simoulaneous.....you don't need two guys. Probably sounds complicated, but it isn't. I don't like it much either, but sometimes you might need to stop a huge piece suddenly. That's when its useful.
> 
> Never tried that double block thing in the video either. Doesn't really appeal.



Reg

Did you know that the word " fanny" in America means butt, ass, heiney? But in England it mean the other thing?


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## DR. P. Proteus (Sep 16, 2016)

hseII said:


> I've got ISC 3/4" & 5/8" blue blocks, but I wonder if they would withstand the forces of 24" dia Bull Pine @ 20' long?
> 
> Probably not, even with my 5/8" Stable Braid.



3/4 inch blocks combined with 3/4 stable and a fixed bollard. If you are in doubt with that then you should rethink I think.


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## DR. P. Proteus (Sep 16, 2016)

rbtree said:


> Proteus, You are one good reason why I don't bother with this site much anymore. There is little doubt that I was pulling off rad schite while you were still in diapers..or hell, conceived, for all I know or care.



You are not saying very much with that statement.


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## DR. P. Proteus (Sep 16, 2016)

3/4 stuff is rated to break a 45 thousand pounds. I am not sober enough nor smart enough to transfer that into tons ( much less a metric ton) without a little time but I know that if you are stuck on that WLL you should probably sub your work out to China.

Bog:
In the USA that means a wetland
In England that means a public bathroom


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## hseII (Sep 17, 2016)

DR. P. Proteus said:


> 3/4 inch blocks combined with 3/4 stable and a fixed bollard. If you are in doubt with that then you should rethink I think.



Thank You.


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## Reg (Sep 17, 2016)

DR. P. Proteus said:


> Reg
> 
> Did you know that the word " fanny" in America means butt, ass, heiney? But in England it mean the other thing?


I dont like the word, the way it sounds, however it's meant. Never have. Not saying you shouldn't use it, but I won't be.


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## DR. P. Proteus (Sep 18, 2016)

Reg said:


> I dont like the word, the way it sounds, however it's meant. Never have. Not saying you shouldn't use it, but I won't be.


 
Well, its interesting to say the least you have to admit.


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## rbtree (Sep 23, 2016)

DR. P. Proteus said:


> 3/4 stuff is rated to break a 45 thousand pounds.



Depends on the line..... Most polyester double braid lines designed for tree work have a stated tensile strength of ~20,000 lb... minimum tensile of Stable Braid is 17300....but Puget Sound Ropes' product is 19300.. 

And their Plasma line, is rated at 68.800 MTS..... and D/T composite, the line we used in the rigging, is 29,000 tensile at 9/16th--after the splice... this line is full static, which uses Plasma HMWPE fibers for the core, with a polyester sheath. PSR, a division of Cortland Cable, pioneered the rope making process, which others, like Samson, have copied. 

So, it helps, when stating "stuff" as in the above quote, that you have your facts in line.....


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## rbtree (Sep 23, 2016)

hseII said:


> I've got ISC 3/4" & 5/8" blue blocks, but I wonder if they would withstand the forces of 24" dia Bull Pine @ 20' long?
> 
> Probably not, even with my 5/8" Stable Braid.



Agreed. A section that size would weigh 4000 lb... even at 3000 lb.... but, of course, no way could a load that size and weight be negative rigged.... The forces, even if the piece only ran a few feet, would approach and exceed 60,000 lb due to the center of mass falling 20 feet plus the amount the cut end drops..... 

Tip tying, as in my vid, is the only way to rig long heavy loads.....


Reg said:


> Dano
> 
> The two lines run through the twin bollards and are then joined by an aditional single line held by the groundworker. So the ground guy just holds one line that controls and keeps the two lines running simoulaneous.....you don't need two guys. Probably sounds complicated, but it isn't. I don't like it much either, but sometimes you might need to stop a huge piece suddenly. That's when its useful.
> 
> Never tried that double block thing in the video either. Doesn't really appeal.



Got your email. Bummed you'll be across the Big Pond when I'm next in Victoria. Gareth Tudor-Jones and Tony Tresselt presented their double block rigging at the Boise ISA conference. Set up properly, with blocks attached offset a bit from the cut, there's limited contact between the block and tree... and no block to block contact. The forces at the lowering device are reduced 50% and at the rigging points a max of ~37%. These numbers are significant! Anyone who doesn't comprehend the benefits needs to take another look. Of course, I know you would understand. 

That said, I'd imagine that your twin rigging systems method would be capable of handling heavier loads, due to the combined size of the lines and bollards....


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## defensiblespace (Sep 24, 2016)

I've rigged some pretty big stuff using similar techniques, but 17s? Holy crap! Could you have just used a crane instead? I'm assuming yes since the log truck was able to get in there.


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## JRoland (Sep 25, 2016)

defensiblespace said:


> I've rigged some pretty big stuff using similar techniques, but 17s? Holy crap! Could you have just used a crane instead? I'm assuming yes since the log truck was able to get in there.


I was wondering that too- if you could have gotten a crane in where the log truck was, don't see why not, would have saved a lot of climbing...was it just not as cost effective?


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## Zale (Sep 25, 2016)

I think he said earlier that he underbid it.


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## DR. P. Proteus (Oct 2, 2016)

rbtree said:


> Depends on the line..... Most polyester double braid lines designed for tree work have a stated tensile strength of ~20,000 lb... minimum tensile of Stable Braid is 17300....but Puget Sound Ropes' product is 19300..
> 
> And their Plasma line, is rated at 68.800 MTS..... and D/T composite, the line we used in the rigging, is 29,000 tensile at 9/16th--after the splice... this line is full static, which uses Plasma HMWPE fibers for the core, with a polyester sheath. PSR, a division of Cortland Cable, pioneered the rope making process, which others, like Samson, have copied.
> 
> So, it helps, when stating "stuff" as in the above quote, that you have your facts in line.....



Yeah, that's the stuff.


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## rbtree (Oct 3, 2016)

Yes it was..and thank you......


defensiblespace said:


> I've rigged some pretty big stuff using similar techniques, but 17s? Holy crap! Could you have just used a crane instead? I'm assuming yes since the log truck was able to get in there.



No access for the crane..due to a grade transition. Plus there wasn't enough width for the crane to have set up.... and the crane cost would have been too much. By the way, we rigged two 21 footers.....

Had I brought in the Hobbs (Dunno why I didn't--former ITCC champ Dan Kraus will lend it to me anytime---he sold it to me years ago, then bought it back after he started his own biz...) And, if I'd had a higher gin pole rigging point, all would have gone smoothly.....


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## DR. P. Proteus (Oct 25, 2016)

Did some lowering today for a change. I don't often have the opportunity to hone my lowering skills.


I am pretty sure the logs in this video could have been handled with just a big block and a big rope.

Yes, the whole shock load philosophy is true, however, there really isn't a whole lot of shock load to it. When the logs come over it only takes subtle nuance to control it while one lets it fly into the ground.

The rope is running, not suddenly getting locked up and the entire weight of the load in put on it. Well, at least it should be. With the right equipment and operator it should very well be something pretty readily achievable.


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## rbtree (Oct 26, 2016)

Ummm, if you're referring to my job, there would be no rigging that could withstand the forces of butt hitching (only) those sections. If you doubt that the forces could approach 60000 lb, then get a load cell and test it yourself, using small logs, but long ones.......keep in mind that the center of mass of a 20 foot log is going to travel at least 25 feet before coming into the rigging.


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## DR. P. Proteus (Oct 26, 2016)

rbtree said:


> Ummm, if you're referring to my job, there would be no rigging that could withstand the forces of butt hitching (only) those sections. If you doubt that the forces could approach 60000 lb, then get a load cell and test it yourself, using small logs, but long ones.......keep in mind that the center of mass of a 20 foot log is going to travel at least 25 feet before coming into the rigging.



I dunno but I did say I saw a one legged man lower stuff like that with just an old bollard and 16 strand so I still don't know and hope I never have to try... again.


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## rbtree (Oct 29, 2016)

DR. P. Proteus said:


> I dunno but I did say I saw a one legged man lower stuff like that with just an old bollard and 16 strand so I still don't know and hope I never have to try... again.



Yeah, sure.....


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## DR. P. Proteus (Nov 20, 2016)

rbtree said:


> Yeah, sure.....



Yeah is right!

Old guy used this nicked up old 16 like he was to stubborn to get a new one until I broke it. I recall the strap that held the bollard on the tree was about halfway cut through as well and the thing was actually bent from getting smashed.

The rope finally broke when I was using two pulleys, one of them a steal CMI and a nick caught the cheekplate and tore.

Oh sure, we would all be like, " Do you think you could get a new rope!?" But the old man was actually very proficient. Watching him from either above or on the ground I could see how he really didn't let the full weight of the load shock the rigging. Long thick hardwoods. He let it run. Simple.

It was good to know that whatever you could manage to cut would go flying away from you at a high rate of speed. Whatever happened next was not my concern but I liked to watch.

The old man lost his leg in a chipper so he had an actual wooden leg and they say he lost that in there too.


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## jefflovstrom (Nov 20, 2016)

DR. P. Proteus said:


> Yeah is right!
> 
> Old guy used this nicked up old 16 like he was to stubborn to get a new one until I broke it. I recall the strap that held the bollard on the tree was about halfway cut through as well and the thing was actually bent from getting smashed.
> 
> ...



So the guy that can not keep his legs out of a chipper is your rope guru?
Jeff


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## DR. P. Proteus (Nov 20, 2016)

jefflovstrom said:


> So the guy that can not keep his legs out of a chipper is your rope guru?
> Jeff



Yeah! Sure!


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## jefflovstrom (Nov 20, 2016)

DR. P. Proteus said:


> Yeah! Sure!



That gives me an idea,,
what about designing a pulley the can accept passage of a big knot in a bull rope,,
Jeff


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## DR. P. Proteus (Nov 20, 2016)

jefflovstrom said:


> That gives me an idea,,
> what designing a pulley the can accept passage of a big knot in a bull rope,,
> Jeff



May I suggest getting a good editor to write the instruction manual?


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## AngryBeaver (Dec 28, 2016)

Very good job, i give it to you. I will admit though there was way too many shock loads and I would not be your ground man haha. Just be safe!


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## jefflovstrom (Dec 29, 2016)

AngryBeaver said:


> Very good job, i give it to you. I will admit though there was way too many shock loads and I would not be your ground man haha. Just be safe!



Why are you an angry beaver?
Jeff


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## AngryBeaver (Dec 29, 2016)

jefflovstrom said:


> Why are you an angry beaver?
> Jeff


Started as a joke for the business name, ended up sticking. Folks seem to like it haha, for the ones that don't... oh well


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## tree MDS (Dec 29, 2016)

AngryBeaver said:


> Started as a joke for the business name, ended up sticking. Folks seem to like it haha, for the ones that don't... oh well



Lol. It's definitely worlds better than EagerBeaver.


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## Del_ (Dec 29, 2016)

As always excellent stuff Roger B.


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## DR. P. Proteus (Dec 29, 2016)

Del_ said:


> As always excellent stuff Roger B.



Oh now you are just saying that! Just like people did over the video with the 2 blocks. No, its not ALL IN THE PRESENTATION! ****ing block smashers.

And just because one puts stuff like " you better not say anything bad about my post " in their post, well, what the hell is that suppose to mean? Oh we had better be nice and polite and only say good things? 

And for crying out the loud after the first shot in RB's video I was scared shitless and really surprised with all the other problems they were having and also the fact the he kept saying he was nervous himself stretching the limits there.

So NO, no no no, not great as always I don't think.

Sure I admit this work was done by people who were educated enough to assume the risk and did so of their own volition. And I would not like to try it on for size though RB does impress me.


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## Ben Williams (Jan 23, 2017)

That looks a bit risky to me, I think I would have just taken the hit on the job. Fairplay to you and your boys getting it done though, that took some balls


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