# Chipper Upgrade



## Treezn Hedgez (Dec 12, 2001)

Three man gang wanting to update chipper. Pruning mostly, some removals using a 5", 18 hp. Graveley Drop-Feed ( bit weak). Looking at Bear-Cat 8" 25 hp Hydraulic Sensor. Model 72825. Thoughts and opinions please.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Dec 12, 2001)

Don't know your budget, but I feel that the small chippers need to much work to feed. Cut down the wide angle branches and such.

I think a 12 inch with a modest diesel (65-85hp) with auto feed and rooler speed control. 

12 inch allows almost any crotch size in, most are wider then tall so you have like 17 inch wide at the rollers.

Diesel dont lug down like gas does, better engine life...

Auto feed alows the stuffer to walk away from the feed bar, thus increasing productivity.

feed wheel speed allows you to adjust for material being processed. Oak oneday with silver maple the next you can turn the speed up and not worry about the auto feed ckicking in as much.

Vermeer has one in the low twenties.


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## Treezn Hedgez (Dec 13, 2001)

*12" 65-85 Horse*

Hi John Paul , thanks for your response to my first post. It's good to make contact.

I can see the benefits of using a big chipper; time saving, ease of job, increased procuctivity even increased rates. 

But the market we service is mostly if not all residential. Some sites are tricky to get to so that's why we thought "a smaller chipper". And with the turn-table on the Bear-Cat it looks to be easier to feed. 

I don't know. Have you ever used one? Or do you know anyone who has? What make and model do you use?

Might also need a bigger truck to pull a bigger machine. ( Currently got a 3 ton, 4 litre diesel)

Also, funds available are capped. Low $20's US is mid to high $40's NZ. We'd like to stay around $30.

If you or others would like to comment further please feel free.


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## treeclimber165 (Dec 13, 2001)

I never heard of the Bear-Cat, but I know Morbark makes an excellent machine. They have a 10" model which wouldn't be as big and heavy as a Vermeer 12" disc.

I just found some literature on it: Model 2070XL 
Height: 7'3"
Length: 15'3"
width: 5'7"
weight: approx. 4000 lbs
Feed wheel opening: 10" x 15"
Feed rate: 80 feet per minute
Fuel capacity: 25 gallons
Hydraulic capacity: 18 gallons

At one time I was considering going into business with someone and buying a new chipper. This is the one I had decided on, but plans fell through.


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## Darin (Dec 13, 2001)

Actually, that 2070XL is considered a 7 inch. It just has a larger opening. Can you believe with those specs its a 7 inch? Pretty damn good chipper. They are gonna introduce a 50HP Perkins unit that would probably fit into 15,000 us dollars maybe more for you cause of shipping and taxes. If you were gonna stay small, maybe the 6inch Brush Bandit may also work. I used to sell against Bearcat. They are very underbuilt in my honest opinion. Good price, so so built. I would go with another gravely over the bearcat. Good luck.

This is a 9 inch disk http://www.morbark.com/equipment_specs/2090d.htm

Here is the 7 inch drum http://www.morbark.com/equipment_specs/2070xl.htm


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## treeclimber165 (Dec 13, 2001)

Darin, where do you get 7" from? First line on the specs for the 2070 say it is 'rated' as a 10" chipper. I know it is bigger than the Vermeer 935 (9").


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## John Paul Sanborn (Dec 13, 2001)

I used two Bandit 65's and they were not built for highway travel. Blew leafsprings every couple months. That and other reasons I am anti Bandit.

I agreee Morbark is one of the most rugged machines out there. Use a number of them. But they are BIG! lover the Vermeer 1000.

Here is a dealer in Papatoetoe

http://www.vermeer.com/dealers/inte...y=New+Zealand&category=IND&submit=Find+Dealer

This is the 1000XL
http://www.vermeer.com/equipment/brush_chippers/BC1000XL/


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## Darin (Dec 13, 2001)

It says that but, put a 35HP and tell me its gonna chip a 10inch log. 7inch is what it is rated to do all day. It is bigger than a 935 and smaller than a BC1000. If you look at the model numbers on Morbark this is what they mean: 625 (6 is for 6") 2070 (7 is for 7") 2090 (9 is for 9") and so on. Its just what they rate them to do all day long, it may not be in the literature, but this is how they do it. That is the way I think you should rate them. This way you wont wear it out prematurely.

If this isnt true why is there 9 inch more expensive than their 2070 which is rated larger? I know that is what it says but its propaganda to compare price wise better.


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## Eric E. (Dec 14, 2001)

I used the Gravleys when they were Pro-mark. We ran a 210 and a 310. The 210 was the drop in type and the 310 was a 25 hp pivoting tray type. They were good machines for shrubs, ornamentals, and small removals. 

When I started my own business I bought a used Bandit 90 for $7500. I've run it for 4 years now and am quite happy with it. I don't do alot of monster removals so the 9" capicity is not an issue. 50 HP perkins doesn't mind bigger material but I don't push it too much.


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## Toddppm (Dec 14, 2001)

JPS about how much does that 1000 go for? Direct feed to the blades right? No feedwheel? Also did having only 2 blades seem to bog it down or require more maintenance? 
Sorry for all the questions, just never saw one of those


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## Cicero (Dec 15, 2001)

Actually, if you compare the 2070 Morbark w/the Vermeer BC 1000 will keep up with the Vermeer given the 2070 is equipped with and equal powerplant....85hp Cummins. In addition, the blades are much easier to change since there is only one which requires no nut to loosen. The bolt is fit directly into the drum. Plus, you may ask your Vermeer salesman if they ever caught the forest on fire with their exhaust being channeled through the discharge shoot. I think they may have changed that now. In addition, Morbark does not use many decorative panels to make their machine look real nice. Which makes it easy when you do have to work on them, no panels to take off just to start your work. As a bonus the Morbark is generally cheaper too and come with a two year warranty.


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## treeclimber165 (Dec 15, 2001)

Todd, 
The Vermeer 1000 is a feed-wheel type drum chipper, kinda like a lil brother to the 1800 and 2000. Between it and the Morbark, I think the Morbark looks like a better machine. I've run the Vermeer and I'm familiar with other Morbarks. But only one knife on it bothers me. Anyone have any experience with this chipper? 
Hey Big C., 
How much do these babies cost, ballpark?


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## Cicero (Dec 15, 2001)

Treeclimber, the feed wheel spins much faster on the 2070 than the other drums, this is how it keeps up chipping with the others. Should be able to pick one up for 20,000 plus tax. I have sold several and I love demoing against BC1000. Easy sale every time.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Dec 16, 2001)

the 1000 is intentionaly designed to be lighter/smaller then other chippers for the residential industry.

I like the simple PTO/throttle system they have. Near idiot proof. 

Still has exhaust going through the discharge, havent seen any sparks yet.

When I priced it it wass in the low twenties and they gave a very good trade value on the POS the club had.

Again, I like Morbark too. It is just that the 1000 is a very good compact machine with a 12 x 17in feed.


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## Jason Showers (Dec 19, 2001)

> _Originally posted by Treezn Hedgez _
> *Three man gang wanting to update chipper. Pruning mostly, some removals using a 5", 18 hp. Graveley Drop-Feed ( bit weak). Looking at Bear-Cat 8" 25 hp Hydraulic Sensor. Model 72825. Thoughts and opinions please. *



Dear Three Man Gang, 

Check out the morbark Model 2050 Brush Chipper. It is a 5" capacity drum chipper. If you are leaning more towards a disc-style chipper my recommendation would be the 6" capacity Model 2060-D Brush Chipper.

Check out our website at www.morbark.com. Feel free to e-mail me if you have any questions at [email protected].

Best Regards,

Jason


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## Jason Showers (Dec 19, 2001)

> _Originally posted by treeclimber165 _
> *Darin, where do you get 7" from? First line on the specs for the 2070 say it is 'rated' as a 10" chipper. I know it is bigger than the Vermeer 935 (9"). *



Dear Darin,

The Morbark model 2070XL is a 10" capacity chipper.

Best regards,

Jason Showers


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## Jason Showers (Dec 19, 2001)

Darin,

The Morbark Model 2070XL is a 10" capacity drum chipper.

Jason


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## Jason Showers (Dec 19, 2001)

> _Originally posted by Darin _
> *It says that but, put a 35HP and tell me its gonna chip a 10inch log. 7inch is what it is rated to do all day. It is bigger than a 935 and smaller than a BC1000. If you look at the model numbers on Morbark this is what they mean: 625 (6 is for 6") 2070 (7 is for 7") 2090 (9 is for 9") and so on. Its just what they rate them to do all day long, it may not be in the literature, but this is how they do it. That is the way I think you should rate them. This way you wont wear it out prematurely.
> 
> If this isnt true why is there 9 inch more expensive than their 2070 which is rated larger? I know that is what it says but its propaganda to compare price wise better. *



Darin,

The reason the disc style is more expensive is due to the machining that is involved to turn down a disc. It costs more to build a disc style chipper than a drum style. Morbark is for the most parts a self-contained manufacturer meaning we build everything we can under our roof instead of "subbing" the work out and in essence becoming an assembly plant only.

Jason


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## Jason Showers (Dec 19, 2001)

> _Originally posted by John Paul Sanborn _
> *the 1000 is intentionaly designed to be lighter/smaller then other chippers for the residential industry.
> 
> I like the simple PTO/throttle system they have. Near idiot proof.
> ...



Dear John Paul,

The Vermeer BC1000 is designed with a heavy European influence (i.e sound reduction panels, streamlined shape, etc...) Remember Vermeers trademark is the "Diggin Dutchmen". I have heard that they had some trouble with the first machines burning because of the exhaust, but haven't heard anything in awhile. Thank you for the props it is appreciated.

Jason


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## Darin (Dec 19, 2001)

Better tell your local dealer, Or tell Ben Van Allen (Van Halen). Thats were I got my info.
Wouldnt shove 10 inches in that baby to often. I live in high altitude, shouldnt make a big difference, but seems to on those. Its an excellent chipper, much nicer than the 935, or any vermeer for that matter. Thanks for setting me straight. You need to get a sponsored forum on here. So I dont have to look like an idiot. You can answer all the morbark questions yourself and gain a lot of respect in the meantime. Look what they are doing on www.************ . Lots of mfg answering questions. Thanks again, hopefully we can talk soon.


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## treeclimber165 (Dec 19, 2001)

*Welcome, Jason*

I appreciate your answers to questions raised in this thread. Just one more for ya (for now): When are you gonna get a dealer in Orlando to compete against Vermeer Southeast?


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## Jason Showers (Dec 19, 2001)

I don't cover that region myself, however I know they have added some new dealers to the mix recently. It may take awhile for them to "Take the industry by storm" but we are definately progressing in that area. Keep checking out our website in the dealer section for new arrivals to the family.


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## Jason Showers (Dec 19, 2001)

> _Originally posted by Darin _
> *Better tell your local dealer, Or tell Ben Van Allen (Van Halen). Thats were I got my info.
> Wouldnt shove 10 inches in that baby to often. I live in high altitude, shouldnt make a big difference, but seems to on those. Its an excellent chipper, much nicer than the 935, or any vermeer for that matter. Thanks for setting me straight. You need to get a sponsored forum on here. So I dont have to look like an idiot. You can answer all the morbark questions yourself and gain a lot of respect in the meantime. Look what they are doing on www.************ . Lots of mfg answering questions. Thanks again, hopefully we can talk soon. *



Darin,

I never meant for you to look like an idiot. You are right in most of what you are said about the 2070XL (especcially in high altitude). If equipped properly it can and will handle 9-10" diameter all day long. And who knows maybe we can put a 2" larger infeed opening, keep the same power options and call ours a 12" machine too. (BC1000XL)

Jason


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## Darin (Dec 20, 2001)

Well, I dont feel really like an idiot, cause I still dont feel like the machine will do 9-10inch logs all day. I feel it will do 2/3 that all day consistantly, in my area. If equipt properly is the key. Dont expect much out of 35HP when chipping 10" logs. Good joke on the BC1000. BTW I demoed your small tub grinder the other day. That thing is awesome. Just need to keep material in it (loaded), or it wont chip. Never really run one before so I am guessing that might be standard with the gravity necessity. I couldnt load it fast enough with a grapple. Keep taking the industry by storm. Good moto.

Oh, and tell Ben I have his box of Kotex for his Red Wings and you too if you like them.


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## Jason Showers (Dec 20, 2001)

Darin,

You are absolutely right. The 35-HP in my opinion is kind of a waste on that machine unless your chipping smaller diameter material with big crotches.

The whole trick to the Tub Grinder is keeping it full (at least 1/2 - 3/4). This will do two things: 1) Keep weight on the material to keep a steady flow of material through the hammermill and 2) It will definately help eliminate material from flying out of the tub. I think of it as a movie theatre popcorn machine when it is allowed to run too low on material. After all this time I am still impressed every time I see one run.

By the way, I love your site. Definately makes for interesting discussions. Keep up the good work!


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## Rob Murphy (Dec 21, 2001)

*BC 1000*

I have been using the Vemeer BC !000 for about a year now . It is has been a great investment.Picked it up for $AUS 44,000.The more I use it the more I am impressed.Sure you have the problems assoc with inovative technology but the support from Vemeer has been good.I love having a decent Autofeed that actvually works!!!It is compact yet takes a sizable log as well.I would have anything bigger because than you need a skidsteer(bobcat) to feed.They are a bit harder on the Knives but easily inspected using the handjack this also can be used to unjam it easily. One thing I have noticed recently is that the suspension absorbs some of the shock when chipping the larger wood which means less shaking and vibrating allround.It does look a bit small behind our truck but does the job nonethe less.


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## Jason Showers (Dec 21, 2001)

Rob,

I'm glad to hear that you like your Vermeer. I would like to see you take that machine to even half of the places where you could take a Morbark. I have a term for the Vermeer BC1000. It's called "pavement pu**y". They are sure are nice to look at until something falls on it or heaven forbid it needs worked on. Everyone has there own brand preferences regarding machinery and that is why we have competition.


Speaking of the knives, I really hope you never introduce a foreign object into the drum. Surely this causes damage on any machine but just like the price tag on the Vermeer, the parts are equally as expensive. The reason I brought this up is because Vermeer direct mounts their knives to the drum. This is a bad thing if you introduce a foreign object into your machine. Normally it would result in replacing, reskinning or resurfacing the drum of the Vermeer. Morbark offers replacebale knife holders. This means that the knife is bolted to the holder and the holder is bolted to the drum. If a foreign object is introduced normally you can replace the knife and knife holder for a fraction of the cost of having the entire drum reworked. Just something to think about.

Cheers,

Jason


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## Jason Showers (Dec 21, 2001)

> _Originally posted by Darin _
> *Well, I dont feel really like an idiot, cause I still dont feel like the machine will do 9-10inch logs all day. I feel it will do 2/3 that all day consistantly, in my area. If equipt properly is the key. Dont expect much out of 35HP when chipping 10" logs. Good joke on the BC1000. BTW I demoed your small tub grinder the other day. That thing is awesome. Just need to keep material in it (loaded), or it wont chip. Never really run one before so I am guessing that might be standard with the gravity necessity. I couldnt load it fast enough with a grapple. Keep taking the industry by storm. Good moto.
> 
> Oh, and tell Ben I have his box of Kotex for his Red Wings and you too if you like them. *



Darin, 

I spoke with Ben and he said, "How about those Colorado Avalanche". We decided that perhaps the Kotex would be better suited to dry your eyes after watching an Avalanche game. I hear they have have an excellent absorbency factor. Wingnut4Life!

Jason


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## John Paul Sanborn (Dec 22, 2001)

Making valid claims as to the superiority of ones product over a competitors is one thing, but bashing is very unproffesional.

If you are, as it seems, a Morbark rep, I am not impressed.

Not only have you denigrated you competitor, but Rob, me and all those others out there who find this compact machine to fit the needs of an industry segment. 

This is a public forum, not private email. Add to that Vermeers comarketing with our major sponsor...


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## Rob Murphy (Dec 22, 2001)

*Morbark???*

Sorry Jason I have only seen Morbarks in cattledogs.Choice between Bandit and Vermeer is all we have down here.
The Vemeer knives are not totally actually mounted to the drum but through the drum to a replacable sleave. 
"I make it my solemn duty note to allow foreign objects in "MY".chipper,"
Isn't that part off the groundsman's oath.
Anyway John's was right even if my reply sounded a bit like a Vemeer advert " bashing " the competition is not a good marketing approach.


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## Jason Showers (Dec 22, 2001)

Dear John Paul,

I'm certainly not trying to "bash competition" or make fun of ones choice in chippers. I'm sure Rob had very good reasons for buying his machine (as he pointed out). I was simply trying to point out some obvious feature differences. This is what gives competitors "an edge" over one another.

If you remember back 10-15 years ago everybody and there brother were building chippers. When the economic crunch hit in the eighties only the strong survived. There were several "small time" chipper manufacturers driven out of business because of it. The top three chippers made today in (my opinion) are Vermeer, Bandit and Morbark. Two of three (Vermeer, Morbark) were survivors of the crunch (Bandit started around 1983-1985 approx.) 

As demonstrated this certainly can create a Chevy, Ford and Dodge scenario or John Deere, Cat and Cummins rivalry dispute, if you will.

Who is better? Everyone has their own niche or claim to fame regarding their machinery. I'm sure you could go back and forth for months on that issue.

I love competition and I think companies need it to survive. This business (in some areas) is getting to be pretty cut-throat and I don't wish to be confused as a responsible party for making that happen. We are no stranger to these games just as much as the gentleman I was reading about in another forum regarding the tree guys who will beat any written or advertised pricing.

My motto is: "You never want to any further lengths than necessary regarding a competitor because they may be signing your paychecks tomorrow".

I apologize if I offended you and Rob but everyone is allowed to have an opinion.

Jason


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## Darin (Dec 28, 2001)

> Darin,
> The reason the disc style is more expensive is due to the machining that is involved to turn down a disc. It costs more to build a disc style chipper than a drum style. Morbark is for the most parts a self-contained manufacturer meaning we build everything we can under our roof instead of "subbing" the work out and in essence becoming an assembly plant only.
> Jason



Then why is the 2100D (14in disc) less expensive than the 13(13in drum)? Sounds contadicting to me.

Tell Ben I will see him in January.


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