# A hard calk life for me



## northmanlogging (Apr 12, 2014)

Here's another crazy idea from the demented laboratories at Northman Industries...

Flame hardening calks.

A little background, 2 monthes or so ago I changed out my calks, I only work part time, and lately I've been doing more wrenching then logging, the nails are allready getting to the point of replacement. Yeah I know I'm a fat ass and shouldn't be wearing them while driving equipment blah frickity blah. They should also last about 4 times longer then this.

So here's what the plan is so for, I've flame hardened 8 calks, and stuck them in the heel of my right boot, in the other boot, standard phillips tool steel calks (which I am now not impressed with) unhardened. 




So yeah they change color a bit, and this brand tends to loose its pressed on flange, but just from today the right boot is still sharp where the center on the left is showing signs of wear.

As a side note I spark tested the Hoffmans, and Champs I had laying around compared to the phillips, no real difference, just the shape of the phillips, and the plating was better on the champs and hoffmans, conclusion is they are all tool steel, just not hardened or poorly hardened. Also the phillips do to there pointyness, tended to burn the end off before the rest got hot enough to quench.

I have some plans in the works to possibly make up about 500 calks and see if I can sucker some of you fine folks into trying them out at cost (which admittedly will be a little steep for a small order, hopfully under a buck a nail)

And finally ended up using the ole acetelyne wrench to do the hardening, propane torch just didn't have the grunt, and I'm too cheap to buy mapp gas

I'll try to keep this post updated as results come in...


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## treeslayer2003 (Apr 13, 2014)

if they are good tool steel, they should heat treat very well. did you air cool or liquid quench?


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## slowp (Apr 13, 2014)

Is Annie playing up north? 

Where were you 10 years ago, when I needed nice spikes? Oh well.


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## Gologit (Apr 13, 2014)

I just changed out my Wesco nails...again. If you want to experiment I'll send you a full set of new Wesco nails. With the Wesco you can separate the nail itself from the flange. You treat 'em, I'll wear 'em...we'll see what happens.


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## northmanlogging (Apr 13, 2014)

water quenched, heat till bright red toss in cold water, takes about 30 seconds per nail. Have a sorta jig to hold em so the threads don't get too hot and scale up.

There is a hardness tester at the day job, but is kind difficult to get something that small in its jaws...


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## Reddog (Apr 13, 2014)

I use Champ Cer-Mec's in the ball and heal.
They seem to last better for me than the standard ones.


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## HuskStihl (Apr 13, 2014)

Little Northman Annie. If you heat treated corks, you could rub them on u'r face for camouflage


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## northmanlogging (Apr 13, 2014)

Not much to see yet and the pictures arn't real high quality.

After 2 days








Notice on the top pic the 2 center nails already have flats started...


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## northmanlogging (Apr 13, 2014)

HuskStihl said:


> Little Northman Annie. If you hear treated corks, you could rub them on u'r face for camouflage



Corks are for wine, mead, and fishing (and face paint in a pinch)

Calks are for traction, ruining floors, and scaring deer away (and face removal in a pinch)


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## Gologit (Apr 13, 2014)

I can't get the damn PMs to work.

I boxed up enough spikes for two boots, minus the washers. They'll probably go out in Tuesday's mail...USPS.

No hurry in getting them back, I just put new ones on last week.

I threw in a few extra in case your shop is like mine. My shop eats things and they're never seen again.


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## northmanlogging (Apr 14, 2014)

shop what shop, I have 55 gallon drum with some 1/4 plate on top of it... that's my welding bench, not sure whats in the drum but it hasn't blown up yet!


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## bitzer (Apr 14, 2014)

Cool. I'd like to see how much longer they wear. And why can't the fn manufacturer's just do it right in the first place!


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## northmanlogging (Apr 15, 2014)

HuskStihl said:


> Little Northman Annie. If you heat treated corks, you could rub them on u'r face for camouflage





slowp said:


> Is Annie playing up north?
> 
> Where were you 10 years ago, when I needed nice spikes? Oh well.



I only just got the little orphan referance.... I was thinking of Doctor Dre... generation gaps I guess


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## slowp (Apr 15, 2014)

Well, at the Morton Roxy, they showed a preview to a remake of Annie. Coming soon, to a theater near you.....The Sun Will Come Out Tomorrow. Bet your bottom dollar and all that.


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## HuskStihl (Apr 15, 2014)

Generation gap!!!! _I eat because I'm unhappy, and when I'm unhappy I eat. It's a vicious circle....
_
Fat Bastard!!! Just kidding. I gave you full credit for "Little Northman Annie". Next you'll be claiming to be gangsta, but still you got flava. Like EZ mother****in' E
Generation gap? fat bastard!!!


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## StihlKiwi (Apr 15, 2014)

Anyone tried the tungsten spikes? I think Champ makes them


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## Reddog (Apr 15, 2014)

Reddog said:


> I use Champ Cer-Mec's in the ball and heal.
> They seem to last better for me than the standard ones.







StihlKiwi said:


> Anyone tried the tungsten spikes? I think Champ makes them



I believe those are the Champ Cer-Mec ones.


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## northmanlogging (Apr 15, 2014)

the cer mecs be spendy and unubtanium near here, hardening the damn things should have been done at the factory, but apperantely to save money they quit... or never did 

the funny thing is I don't even like hip hop/ rapp,


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## nhlogga (Apr 23, 2014)

I get my caulks from Hoffmmans. They last alot longer than those Phillips too steel caulks


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## madhatte (Apr 23, 2014)

These are the old Omni-Lite golf spike calks you used to be able to get but which are now out of production, alongside regular current-production spikes for comparison. They were hardened and lasted forever. I bought all that the manufacturer had a few months ago and they don't remember where they came from or when they stopped making them, so I don't expect to ever see them again. When the set I'm wearing now wears out, that's all she wrote.





Here's what a month or so of (not-on-the-landing) wear looks like:


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## OlympicYJ (Apr 23, 2014)

Looks like they wear good! Landing duty kills em all. I've been pretty happy with the Phillips tool steel compared to the champs but maybe I got some leftover from good production..?


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## northmanlogging (Apr 23, 2014)

That is the kind of life I'm aiming for... Didn't take a pic from last weekend but I can say the hardened ones are showing they're strength now. The stock calks are nearly at ball bearing status, the hardened ones are starting to see some wear finally, This has been on rocky ground and graveled landing so far, not a whole lot of log walking on this job...

Was going to get to Bob's Wesco's tonight but got called out an a timber bid, so maybe tommorrow?


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## Gologit (Apr 25, 2014)

northmanlogging said:


> That is the kind of life I'm aiming for... Didn't take a pic from last weekend but I can say the hardened ones are showing they're strength now. The stock calks are nearly at ball bearing status, the hardened ones are starting to see some wear finally, This has been on rocky ground and graveled landing so far, not a whole lot of log walking on this job...
> 
> Was going to get to Bob's Wesco's tonight but got called out an a timber bid, so maybe tommorrow?


 I'll have a good test for them when I get them back. I have some roadside hazard trees to take out and that means walking on gravel part of the time.


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## slowp (Apr 25, 2014)

Now, come up with a simple tool to get the calks out that are stuck, please.


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## madhatte (Apr 25, 2014)

That'll be a challenge. Once the bases spin in the sole, there's not much you can do to grab them, short of removing the entire sole itself. My Kuliens connection favors drive calks over replaceable ones for this reason.


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## Gologit (Apr 25, 2014)

slowp said:


> Now, come up with a simple tool to get the calks out that are stuck, please.



Uh, Wescos don't _get_ stuck. 'Course that might be because I work in a drier climate and they don't corrode. Or maybe because Wesco calks wear so fast that they get changed often enough to keep everything free and easy? Good boots...lousy calks.
We'll see how NM's heat treated calks work out. Us poor starving logger types can't afford those fancy designer boots like you gubmint people.


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## stikine (Apr 25, 2014)

slowp said:


> Now, come up with a simple tool to get the calks out that are stuck, please.


 My solution to this problem has been to remove all the corks from a new pair of boots (before you wear them) and put a dab of anti-seize on the threads and then screw them back in. Each time I change out the dull ones the new cork gets the same treatment. I haven't stuck a cork for years after I started doing this. 

As a time saver I also remove the cork tool handle and chuck the shaft onto a cordless drill to speed up this process.


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## madhatte (Apr 25, 2014)

Gologit said:


> Us poor starving logger types can't afford those fancy designer boots like you gubmint people.



Designer? I get what GSA has on the website. The Kulien's connection is my old forestry partner from my contracting days; I've known him since Jr. High school. 



stikine said:


> remove all the corks from a new pair of boots (before you wear them) and put a dab of anti-seize on the threads and then screw them back in.



That's a good idea. I'll try it next time I get new boots.


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## slowp (Apr 25, 2014)

Gologit said:


> Us poor starving logger types can't afford those fancy designer boots like you gubmint people.


 
Poor boy. I'll get out my violin. If I had *BIG* feet, a whole new world of boot brands would open up.


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## Gologit (Apr 25, 2014)

slowp said:


> Poor boy. I'll get out my violin. If I had *BIG* feet, a whole new world of boot brands would open up.




Ouch! I don't have big feet, I have _adequate_ feet. Pffffft.


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## northmanlogging (Apr 26, 2014)

The current plan for ground up calks is to have a hex rather then the goofy holes like the champs, then it would be fairly hard to get em stuck, and you won't have to wast money on one of them cheap calk wrenches. Still in the planing stages of that project though.


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## CR888 (Apr 26, 2014)

oh no! now AS members are giving their footwear performance upgrades! Good thread!


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## slowp (Apr 26, 2014)

Can you harden the eyelets too? I think mine are made out of brass? They wear quickly because I use the dreaded synthetic laces.


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## Gologit (Apr 26, 2014)

slowp said:


> Can you harden the eyelets too? I think mine are made out of brass? They wear quickly because I use the dreaded synthetic laces.


 How come synthetic? Do the leather laces rot in the damp climate?


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## northmanlogging (Apr 26, 2014)

hmmm... I could technically... but it is brass and therefore never going to be super hard or wear resistant, and the down side is yer boots would have to be heated to something like 1000* F... and then soaked in silica.

I just use a pair of needle nose pliers and spin them so the worn side is away form the laces, it buys me another year or so. There shouldn't be any reason that a decent shoe repair shop can't replace them for sorta cheap


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## northmanlogging (Apr 26, 2014)

Gologit said:


> How come synthetic? Do the leather laces rot in the damp climate?



They always break on me, not sure for missP, but tend to yard on em pretty good. There has been more then a few times that I had to stop and loosen my boots cause my feet fell asleep


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## Gologit (Apr 26, 2014)

northmanlogging said:


> They always break on me, not sure for missP, but tend to yard on em pretty good. There has been more then a few times that I had to stop and loosen my boots cause my feet fell asleep



Yup, they'll break before synthetic laces do. And synthetic lasts longer, I agree. They also seem to fit under the little-bitty hooks better. They also cost less than leather. It's getting harder and harder to find leather laces long enough for 12" boots unless you order them fro Bailey's Or Madsens.
That being said, I'll still keep using leather. Synthetic laces are kinda like plastic hard hats...they might be more practical but they just don't _feel_ right.
Must be an "old guy" thing.


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## Joe46 (Apr 26, 2014)

Must be! Have always used leather laces on my corks or other work boots. But good ones are getting harder to find. I ordered some 120" ones online to replaces the ones in my Buffalos that the mice had made into a condo.


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## slowp (Apr 26, 2014)

I must look at them wrong, or do the wrong incantation, because over here in the rain leather laces last about a week for me. I've greased them too. No good. Oh well.
Yup, I turn the little rings. A flat head screwdriver on a multitool will rotate the rings.


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## Gologit (Apr 29, 2014)

NM...the treated spikes arrived in today's mail. I'll put them on the boots first chance I get and see how they do. They look good, no deformation or metal loss.


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## northmanlogging (Apr 29, 2014)

excellent!


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## Gologit (Apr 30, 2014)

I changed them out last night...just for something to do. I have some rocky ground to walk on today. We'll see how they hold up.


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## OlympicYJ (May 1, 2014)

Speaking of leather laces and boots, I just got my new pair of Nicks. Hatte saw a pic of em on my FB haha Gotta break em in. Think I'll just soak em in water and wear em all day one of these day. Probably next week.


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## schmuck.k (May 19, 2014)

Gologit said:


> I changed them out last night...just for something to do. I have some rocky ground to walk on today. We'll see how they hold up.


Hey bob hoy are they holding up? Jest finished breaking in my wescos and them dam calks wear fast the boots are comfy as hell tho


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## northmanlogging (May 19, 2014)

Don't know about Bob's, but I've been in and out of the dump truck for the last 3 weeks or so, and its hard enough to drive without getting yer feet stuck in the rust holes... not to mention the clutch pedal is missing the rubber bit, so the calks would just slip right off at a critical moment.

I'll start killing trees again in a few weeks, and the experiment will continue.


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## Gologit (May 19, 2014)

schmuck.k said:


> Hey bob hoy are they holding up? Jest finished breaking in my wescos and them dam calks wear fast the boots are comfy as hell tho



Hey Kevin...I'd report but there isn't much to report. I should have written something before but things have been a little hectic down here. I was going to take some pictures but they wouldn't show much. The spikes are holding up great! 

If I had to guess I'd say maybe twenty hours of boots on the the ground...lots of rocks, gravel and some asphalt. The only wear I have so far is that goofy little extra sharp tip is gone but the main body of the spike shows very little wear. There's not nearly the wear that the regular Wesco spikes would be showing by now.

If NM can figure out a cost efficient way to heat-treat the spikes and get some volume going I think he's on to something good.


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## StihlKiwi (May 24, 2014)

Going along with the laces theme, who uses starter cord?
Good stuff IMO


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## Jim Timber (May 24, 2014)

Heat treating is usually dirt cheap and based on weight.


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## StihlKiwi (May 24, 2014)

Hows that loggin road going Jim?


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## northmanlogging (May 24, 2014)

Jim Timber said:


> Heat treating is usually dirt cheap and based on weight.




Yep, its the making of the calks that is the real hold up, not cost effective or legal to buy a bunch of champ calks and then have them treated, So I have to make form scratch.

Also bulk heat treating of something like calks would require the heating of the threads as well, possibly leading to the threads getting fouled up. Which if I where to build from scratch I could account for in the thread size.

Secondly the geniuses at the big calk manufacturing plants are using tool steel, which in not really all that good at resisting abrasion, it gets hard yes, but abrasion resistance is key here. Tool steel is meant more to resist impacts and be easy to cut and grind, whats needed is something easy to cut, abrasion resistant, and takes a good heat treat. I already have an idea as to what I'll use, just have to do some more research and see what sizes and shapes it comes in.

As for now I'm still trying to see if there is enough benefit to heat treating to make it worth the effort of working up a batch of NM Hard Calks.


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## Eccentric (May 24, 2014)

northmanlogging said:


> Yep, its the making of the calks that is the real hold up, *not cost effective or legal to buy a bunch of champ calks and then have them treated, So I have to make form scratch.*
> 
> Also bulk heat treating of something like calks would require the heating of the threads as well, possibly leading to the threads getting fouled up. Which if I where to build from scratch I could account for in the thread size.
> 
> ...



It would be legal if you entered into an agreement with champ or their distributors. Cost effective may still be the issue however.................although you may be able to get 'em at wholesale. Just a thought...


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## 4x4American (May 24, 2014)

northmanlogging said:


> Yep, its the making of the calks that is the real hold up, not cost effective or legal to buy a bunch of champ calks and then have them treated, So I have to make form scratch.
> 
> Also bulk heat treating of something like calks would require the heating of the threads as well, possibly leading to the threads getting fouled up. Which if I where to build from scratch I could account for in the thread size.
> 
> ...


Who knows you could make a big name with them, while you're at it you should make some NM Hard Hats. 


Yuuupp got on my NM hard calks and hard hat


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## Jim Timber (May 24, 2014)

Logging road is going fine, still considering non-swamp access and I've been busy with my primary business making things out of metal and having them heat treated.  

Tool steel is a general term for a rather large group of alloys. You'd need to know the alloy for that comment and all your assertions to mean anything. Not being abrasion resistant? Well, that's relative since it's typically meant for cutting alloy steel. Threads dimensions post heat treat will depend on the alloy and the process used to harden them. Everything I sell is threaded prior to being hardened, and they don't distort. Alloy and process used is key.

There's nothing illegal about buying someone else's product and modifying it, then marketing it yourself as a modified gizmo. Lingenfelter, Shelby, and all the modified saw guys have been doing it for decades.


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## northmanlogging (May 24, 2014)

Hey jim you do realize my day job is a machinist right. This is what I do, logging is part time, becoming full time (soon maybe). In fact, several years ago and if I was union I would be considered a tool and die maker (those don't exist anymore, so now I'm just the guy that can fix and set up every machine ever)

By tool steel I mean any of the air/oil/water hardening type tool steels, 1-2-3, also known as A1 or O2 or W1 et. al.

And tool steels are meant for general tooling I.E. fixtures, jigs, vices, dies (not the type that cuts threads), punches, wrenches that sort of thing, morons use it for cutting tools, which should be made of HSS. To say nothing of carbide, diamond or ceramic cutters.

Also tool steels are designed not to warp much during the heat treat process, other steels not "tool steels" will warp much more then tool steels, and some tool steels will warp more then others. This says nothing of stainless types or any of the high nickle alloys or any of the Chrome moly, or high carbon steels. Also note, this is largely why there several classes of ansi and ISO threads, some for a looser fit so they will have a better chance of surviving the heat treat process.

Besides I thought you where a welder, now your a heat treater? Generally the two don't mix in my experience, welders mostly glue two pieces together, heat treating involves paying attention to things like actual temperature and heat times, quenching temperatures, quenching mediums, reading the work order farther then "weld" and then reading the notes on the print. Lets not forget about which hardness scale to use Rockwell a,b or c, and a few others I can't seem to remember right now.

This is all just of the top of my head.

As far as legal I imagine burning the zinc off 50 pounds of steel on a regular basis is just fine where your from.

And 4x4, making hats would involve a whole passel of jack wagons from osha and LI up my rectum, with small magnifying glasses... Boots as yet don't need much osha approval, unless you want a steel toe, then that has to be inspected and passed... Although it would be spectacular if McDonald Mine Safety where to put Skull Bucket out of business...


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## Jim Timber (May 25, 2014)

I weld, I'm not a weldor. I'm a machinist. I contract out heat treating, rather than doing it by eye over a bucket with a torch. I'll skip returning insults, because you sound like you've huffed too much hexavalent chromium already. Good luck with your ventures.

A little bit of info to bring you up to speed on O2:

http://www.westyorkssteel.com/tool-steel/o2/


*Applications*
"Typical applications for O2 tool steel include medium run dies, press tools, drawing punches, broaches, bushings, lathe centres, chuck jaws, master cavity sinking hobs, plug gauges, thread gauges, thread cutting tools and precision measuring tools. It is also a popular tool steel for cams, cloth cutting knives, cold taps, reamers, collets, cutting hobs, strip slitting cutters, trimmer dies, tube expander rolls, plastic moulds and woodworking knives."

LOTS of cutting uses in there.


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## northmanlogging (May 25, 2014)

Jim Timber said:


> I weld, I'm not a weldor. I'm a machinist. I contract out heat treating, rather than doing it by eye over a bucket with a torch. I'll skip returning insults, because you sound like you've huffed too much hexavalent chromium already. Good luck with your ventures.
> 
> A little bit of info to bring you up to speed on O2:
> 
> ...




Wanna try again?


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## northmanlogging (Jun 8, 2014)

right so the trials must go on! Finally got back to logging... So I got to abuse my calks again. First pick is the hardened side. Getting hard to not see a difference now. If time allows I need to work up a few for the rest of the boots, leaving the heels alone, I'm convinced its worth the effort to do at home at least.


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## northmanlogging (Jun 8, 2014)

StihlKiwi said:


> Going along with the laces theme, who uses starter cord?
> Good stuff IMO



Starter cord is fine and all and would surely make excellent laces, however para cord is just slightly cheaper, I do keep an extra cord to tie my gas and bar oil together, and I generally have at least one factory boot lace in the crummy, if not I almost always have a hank of para cord which in a pinch works for both.


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## madhatte (Jun 9, 2014)

I just got a hand-cranked forge. Could you recommend a procedure for hardening that I (a total noob steel-wise) could follow?


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## Gologit (Jun 9, 2014)

madhatte said:


> I just got a hand-cranked forge. Could you recommend a procedure for hardening that I (a total noob steel-wise) could follow?



If NM is coming to Farley's bring your forge with you and he can give us all a lesson. Those calks that he treated for me are wearing very well.


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## madhatte (Jun 9, 2014)

Ooh! Good idea. I'll bring a tub of Champs, and maybe some coal if I can get it.


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## northmanlogging (Jun 9, 2014)

I thought of doing it the coal forge... it would be a little difficult but not impossible. Its very easy to loose small things in the coals then they melt, then you get to spend the rest of the weekend chipping bits of metal out of strange places.

As far as using the forge get a crappy propane torch make a little pile of coal set the torch in there pointed at the coal, start gently cranking away on the bellows, after a few minutes it will start burning fairly good, then start slowly stacking more coal on the burning stuff (remember to remove torch) after a bit you get a big noxious cloud of yellow smoke (sulfur) then POOF you have a good fire going, keeping it going takes a bit of practice, if you bring yer forge and a bit of coal we can maybey fool around with it, I should be there friday night, have to meet the self loader in the morning and its roughly 400 miles to farley ville.


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## Gologit (Jun 9, 2014)

madhatte said:


> Ooh! Good idea. I'll bring a tub of Champs, and maybe some coal if I can get it.



Just exercising my main talent...finding things for other people to do. Hard habit to break.


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## northmanlogging (Jun 9, 2014)

To keep the fire going (sorry dinner) you have to keep air to it, no air no fire. A guy can leave for a few minutes and then crank it back up and be ok (my forge has an electric fan so I burn a lot of coal but it never goes out). Secondly to keep impurities down you want to work the fresh coal from the outside in, so stack fresh coal on the outskirts of the forge and let the yucky stuff burn off and sort of scrape in the "clensed" coal in (known now as coke) this will keep things like sulfur, excess o2, and a plethora of other nasties to a minimum, (sulfur is really not very good for steel unless you want sulfurized steel which is very soft and a little bit brittle).

Now if you want to leave a coal forge and get drunk or eat some lunch etc... (don't get drunk... no really its bad) you can pile on a crap ton of raw coal and the fire will stay hot inside for several hours, it really shouldn't be left unattended though especially with a portable type forge, then once you get back from carousing or whatever you just make a little hole in the pile until you find fire and start cranking on the bellows again.

There are many other tricks to keeping a forge fire burning clean and hot, most you can read about but its better to see it done and then burn yer own fingers figuring it out, such as clinker control ( the bits of shale and regular old rock that melt and then drift down to the tyre (vent hole) once they cool they make a clinking sound) or building up a coke dome using a sprinkler can(I'm still not very good at this part, I just use massive amounts of coal and hope it works).

The biggest thing is forget tongs, get a long piece of steel a hammer and something resembling an anvil and got nuts. And don't forget something to quench with, a 5 gallon bucket of tap water works for me, you can richard around with oil, brine, and whatnot till the cows get stoned, water is cheap, and doesn't catch on fire


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## Eccentric (Jun 10, 2014)

madhatte said:


> Ooh! Good idea. I'll bring a tub of Champs, and maybe some coal if I can get it.



I see some *Forward Thinking* happening Nate.


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## northmanlogging (Jun 10, 2014)

I think there is still a place in chehalis/centrailia? called fire and ice? if they are still open they sold coal by the pound.


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## Gologit (Jun 10, 2014)

northmanlogging said:


> I think there is still a place in chehalis/centrailia? called fire and ice? if they are still open they sold coal by the pound.



Patty would know. If you need some calks to practice on I still have a set of untreated Wescos. Let me know before tomorrow morning and I'll bring them.


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## slowp (Jun 10, 2014)

Gologit said:


> Patty would know. If you need some calks to practice on I still have a set of untreated Wescos. Let me know before tomorrow morning and I'll bring them.


 
Never heard of it, but there did used to be coal mines around here and a big one at Centralia. I guess I could raid the pile at the only? coal power plant in our state *if* I go into town. Gotta be quick. It will be shutting down too.

Nathan is more native to that part of the state than I, so he probably knows exactly where to go. By the way, got any Yardbirds stickers for the upcoming GTG?

I will have some briquettes for dutch ovening.


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## madhatte (Jun 10, 2014)

Yardbirds stickers: maybe, we'll see what I can find. 

Coal in Centralia? I got this. 

Forward Thinking? You better believe it.


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## northmanlogging (Jun 10, 2014)

I have about 1/2 a ton here at the house, just getting low on room...

If some one can scrounge some stainless construction cloth in the next 3 days, may be able to build a basket type thing and cook em by batches, results may not be perfect though... Or Hel a soup can and a coat hanger might do, all depends on how hot the fire is and whether or not a guy can keep the heat where it belongs.

Ideally a propane fired forge would work better for heat treating, or for those with heavy pockets an electric kiln


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## Gologit (Jun 10, 2014)

northmanlogging said:


> I have about 1/2 a ton here at the house, just getting low on room...
> 
> If some one can scrounge some stainless construction cloth in the next 3 days, may be able to build a basket type thing and cook em by batches, results may not be perfect though... Or Hel a soup can and a coat hanger might do, all depends on how hot the fire is and whether or not a guy can keep the heat where it belongs.
> 
> Ideally a propane fired forge would work better for heat treating, or for those with heavy pockets an electric kiln



You want me to bring a set of untreated Wescos?


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## northmanlogging (Jun 10, 2014)

If ya got the room... may end up destroying them...(not that a bag of calks take up much room)


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## madhatte (Jun 11, 2014)

I might be able to find a bit of ceramic wool. I know where some USED to be, now to see if it's still there.


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## northmanlogging (Jun 17, 2014)

Should have a more proper heat treating kiln mocked up soon. The idea is to heat up a batch at a time, maybe speed the process up a bit and still be able to do it at home, have most of what I need just need some fire brick the rest I can build, or modify...

Also have a bid out for the making them form scratch, crossed fingers... (I'm done being a machinist and really have no desire to make these myself, I'd rather pay someone else to do it and kill trees for a living, even if it closes any kind of profit margin)


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## northmanlogging (Jun 18, 2014)

So batching is way better then single burning, have to play with the setup to get a little more consistent heat, but good enough for backyard work, even with setting up the "kiln" it only took about half an hour, and in reality its like 5 minutes to heat 50 calks vs. half hour to 45 minutes burning one at a time. Plus now I'm using LPG instead of acetelyne (sp)

I've been using the Philips "tool steel" calks only because that is what they have at the local saw shop... the problem with them is they are two pieces, the warsher is pressed onto the nail part, and when you heat it up sometimes they come apart... which is lame... This is different than the wesco style in that the wesco's warsher is just that a warsher and is therefore a separate part altogether (still means you have to assemble them but is sure beats trying to match a's and b's with 5-15 bits that came loose)

If I get a chance, I'll get me some champs and see how they do... just means a slightly longer drive or mail order calks...(snicker) based on simple spark testing I believe they are all made of more or less the same material. The champs are cold headed all one piece construction and then chrome/nickle plated (they (as in chrome/nickele) all look the same to me) the phillips are lathe turned and just zinc plated...

For the record, the calks in my left heal, are the original untreated, the calks in the right side are the original treated 8 the rest have been treated, since I believe this is going to work, but I still want to see what kind difference I can get out of them before absolutely needing to change out the untreated heel calks (which at this rate won't be long)


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## Hddnis (Jun 19, 2014)

If you can't find coal use some d. fir bark. I learned about that from an oldtimer and then metals reminded me of it down in the chainsaw forum.

Maybe you've already covered this, but why not treat just the tips? I'm imagining a moving chain with a propane flame getting each tip hot and then right down into the quench, continuous style. Could even use electric induction heating.



Mr. HE


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## northmanlogging (Jun 19, 2014)

I thought of that... lots of fab work to make it right, and of coarse a motor and stuff, was the idea behind doing one at a time, that way the threads didn't get bunged up...

just heating the whole damn thing works just fine so far...


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## Hddnis (Jun 19, 2014)

It would be a tricky set up and then you'd have to tune it.

By the batch sounds fine.



Mr. HE


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## northmanlogging (Jun 19, 2014)

That maybe the deciding factor for the steel I would like to use, scaling... The tool steel phillips (and I assume champ) are made of doesn't scale so bad, part of the reason people use tool steel for heat treated parts. The higher carbon stuff will get harder and be better at resisting abrasion, but the trade off could be more difficulty in heat treating both from warpage and from scalling... Only one way to find out and that is to make a bunch and see what happens.


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## OlympicYJ (Jun 19, 2014)

Northman you start bath turnin em out I'd be interested. I need to change out mine on the rubbers but am being lazy. The leathers arent too bad..


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## northmanlogging (Jun 19, 2014)

It'll be a month or two down the line at least before I even get a working mock up of the 100% originals, in the meantime it doesn't take much to burn a set of factory calks up... unless I left the matches out again... then it could be difficult getting the torch started...

The more people get interested the more effort I'll put into making it a reality, the first 1000 calks are probably going to end up costing me 2-4 dollars a piece, there will be some significant tooling costs... once that's out of the way I hope... to have the costs down to something us working stiffs can handle.


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## northmanlogging (Nov 28, 2014)

Well... its been a few months now, and the original 8 have gotten to the point of being poor excuses for hob nails... the other side is still in usable shape... so I changed em out a week ago or so, but before I took em out I snapped a couple of pics


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## 4x4American (Dec 1, 2014)

So how ya like em


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## Gologit (Dec 1, 2014)

4x4American said:


> So how ya like em



He made a set for me to try on my Wescos. They're great. I figure they'll last at least twice as long as the regular calks.


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## northmanlogging (Dec 1, 2014)

twice is about right, took the time and burned up a whole set awhile ago, picked up some Viberg brand calks over the weekend I'll try them out next, 

They get kinda ugly in the "furnace" and I still have some consistency issues, all things that just need more patience to work out.


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## 4x4American (Dec 2, 2014)

Yup. You'll get it after some R+D


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## madhatte (Dec 3, 2014)

2x life from regular calks comes up about even with those Omni-lite calks I used to be able to get, which were about half again as expensive. If you can match those numbers, you have a winner.


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## 4x4American (Dec 4, 2014)

Shoot if they last twice as long and you can't get em anywhere else I wouldn't charge less for em that just don't make sense.


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## OlympicYJ (Dec 11, 2014)

Northman didn't you said the Phillips were a pain to harden because the plate comes off right? Once I get working next month I'll have to send some kind of caulk up to you to harden.


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## Gologit (Dec 11, 2014)

OlympicYJ said:


> Northman didn't you said the Phillips were a pain to harden because the plate comes off right? Once I get working next month I'll have to send some kind of caulk up to you to harden.



He does a good job on Wescos.


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## OlympicYJ (Dec 11, 2014)

Ive been wanting to get some hardened but I haven't been in the woods werin em down. Still might not be with the new job so much. I'm at least buying a new pair of lace up corks to replace the Hoffman's I have. Gonna go with the Meindel calks Hoffmans sells and see how they do. I've had good luck with Meindels through Cabelas so we'll see how they do as a cork. Get the ankle support of a lace up with the waterproofness of a rubber without it bein rubber lol.


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## northmanlogging (Dec 11, 2014)

The philips do loose about 1/2 of their warshers, but they are relatively easy to reassemble. Oliver Hammer in Sedro Woolly has Viberg branded calks which I'm hoping will be better as they are the guys that kind of started the replaceable calk thing... I'll use fresher water next time so I don't have nearly as much goobers on the calks... (had a can I lit some "extra" diesel in... the soot got everywhere...)

Haven't found champs locally in a very long time. Still available mail order though.

Remind me to make some phone calls to some other more realistic machine shops... on getting my own design off the ground.


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## OlympicYJ (Dec 11, 2014)

Would be interested in the Vibergs.


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## northmanlogging (Dec 12, 2014)

I could harden them up and bill ya for em? Although I haven't had a chance to test them at all yet, they may already be hard, and any messing with em could ruin that...

Gimme a couple days... its really ****ing dark when I get home and the forge has no lights what so ever... not to mention I wan't to test them first... otherwise OH does do the mail order thing... course if this wind keeps up won't be any lights...


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## wowzers (Dec 12, 2014)

I always thought a cork sharpener that goes in a drill would be the cat's meow. I have flat filed mine before to get a little more life out of them.


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## OlympicYJ (Dec 12, 2014)

Ten4. And hmm might have to try me unhardened and then hardened.

A cork sharpener would be awesome!


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## northmanlogging (Nov 6, 2015)

Well... nearly a year later...

Just installed the Vibergs, unhardened... With the last of the phillips hardened calks in the heel of one boot, we shall see..

Kinda got off the whole making my own thing, would have to get a machine, and start my own machine shop to make it happen... and I'm ****ing sick of that industry anyway, can't seem to get anyone to take me serious...

Besides heating up a batch with the weed dragon don't take too terribly long.


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## HuskStihl (Nov 7, 2015)

northmanlogging said:


> Well... nearly a year later...
> 
> Just installed the Vibergs, unhardened... With the last of the phillips hardened calks in the heel of one boot, we shall see..
> 
> ...


I take you serious Mang!


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## northmanlogging (Nov 7, 2015)

Machine shop owners around here only have eyes for boeing... That and I have a pretty good idea of the actual cost to make so they can't lie to me and charge double or triple.


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## Gypo Logger (Nov 8, 2015)

Some girls chew snoose and have caulk tracks on their nose. Lol


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