# Felling "Maple" trees - Special techniques?



## Billy_Bob (Jul 27, 2008)

I read in a white paper ("Felling and Bucking Techniques for Woodland Owners" by Oregon State University Extension Service) that certain trees like Maple can have "brittle-heartwood" and may require the attention of an experienced cutter.

So... Are Maple trees felled differently than other types of trees because they have "brittle-heartwood"?

How about small young maple trees as opposed to large old maple trees?


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## slowp (Jul 27, 2008)

Well, here's the only thing I know. If they are small and dead or maybe even bigger and dead, they are likely to sit back. I was cutting only 4 small ones.
I did beautiful undercuts and three went close to where I wanted them to go.
The fourth one sat back. I got the saw out and was going to make another attempt above the cut, and a guy runs up (a friend) grabs the saw and starts yelling that I have to make a cut above the cut and he did it. He told I'd judged the lean wrong. I didn't think I did. And he sent it in the direction I planned.

The next day, I asked fallers about it, and the first thing they said was that with maples, you gotta be careful cuz they'll sit back. They proceeded to explain how sometimes you make the backcut first and insert a wedge then make the undercut. I haven't tried it since. But I told my friend what I learned and he kind of apologized.


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## clearance (Jul 27, 2008)

The holding wood sucks on maples. It is brittle, you cannot make them go to far from thier natural lean when falling. They also suck to climb for this reason. Its like Snap!, its over. The are great for firewood or furniture though.


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## slowp (Jul 27, 2008)

clearance said:


> The holding wood sucks on maples. It is brittle, you cannot make them go to far from thier natural lean when falling. They also suck to climb for this reason. Its like Snap!, its over. The are great for firewood or furniture though.



And we must save them because they provide habitat for some kind of slug.


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## woodfarmer (Jul 27, 2008)

same cut as any other tree, i've never had much problem with any in our area, either hard maple or soft, alot of our northern hard maple is hollow in the center, typical 18-24" dbh, this isn't a very good picture of the end of a log, its a black maple


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## oldchuck (Jul 27, 2008)

I'm wondering what kind of maple these western guys are talking about...


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## Nailsbeats (Jul 27, 2008)

I've found Soft or Silver Maple pretty easy to work with. Many people have big ones in their yards around here and it makes up the majority of our tree work. Hard or Sugar Maple on the other hand is a little different. It doesn't hold a hinge as long and will definitely break earlier. If it's a little dead it won't hold together much at all. Adjust accordingly.

Like Woodfarmer said, it is common for the heartwood to be rotted out of mature Hardmaple.


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## Bushler (Jul 27, 2008)

Big westen broadleaf maple can be bad to fall. If its big, its probably half rotten as well as brash, will barber chair, or even explode into pieces 'specially if there's heavy limbs and weak crotches.

Here's how I do the biggest ugliest of them, and its a method that's relative safe if you're competent faller.


Wrap a 3/8 chain around the tree three feet above where you plan to cut your face and back cut. Make sure you use a grab hook on the chain and cinch it as tightly as you can. Wrap your surplus chain around the tree and secure it so it doesn't dangle in your way.

Face the tree in the exact or very very slightly quarterd away from direct lean. Generouus face, cut cleanly with no dutchman.

Line up squarely, do not dog the saw in...cut fast but don't bog the saw...keep right on cutting when it starts popping...cut up close and then pull the saw and make your escape.

The chain will stop the tree from ripping.


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## Bushler (Jul 27, 2008)

Correction, go as high as you can reach, with a min. of 3' above your saw cuts.


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## oldirty (Jul 27, 2008)

Bushler said:


> Correction, go as high as you can reach, with a min. of 3' above your saw cuts.



from a story i heard you want might want to make sure its above head height. 

story goes something like guy wrapped the chain and started making his cuts. on the backcut the tree exploded on the stump and blew the chain off. in the process of the chain breaking and swinging it popped the guy in the mouth breaking apart his jaw. as he falls unconscious to the ground he falls into the path of said tree which of course landed right on top of the cutter. lucky for this guy it was early spring and the ground was soft enough for the tree to not crush him completely to death. they ended up cutting the log and rolling it off him. he lived. a little banged up though.

the guy who told me the story (his coworker who saw it happen) wont use a chain for that application based upon what he saw that day. trucker straps for him now. he said the chain snapped at a link and not at the hooks.

rough, our world.


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## Bushler (Jul 28, 2008)

Wow! That'd wreck your day. Was he using hi tensile 3/8" chain?

Yes, our job can be bit dangerous, its a lot like bull fighting, you can only get so far from the action.


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## smokechase II (Jul 28, 2008)

*My*

My experience with Maple has been in Western Oregon primarily and it sure does seem to me like they want to dry out faster inside (drought sensitive) than most other trees. I'm saying that because they do seem brittle at those times.

Some wood products specialists might have an opinion about this.

-------------

You definitely want to split it green.


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## 2dogs (Jul 28, 2008)

I am always amazed at how hard maple cutting boards and cabinets are when the trees are weak and cranky and the green logs split super easy.


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## oldirty (Jul 28, 2008)

Bushler said:


> Wow! That'd wreck your day. Was he using hi tensile 3/8" chain?
> 
> Yes, our job can be bit dangerous, its a lot like bull fighting, you can only get so far from the action.





it was a 3/8 logging chain and i asked him today if i got the story right. it did bust a hook and then on the swing from the break a link gave out.


that bullfighting reference is great. lol


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## abohac (Jul 28, 2008)

oldchuck said:


> I'm wondering what kind of maple these western guys are talking about...



You took the words right out of my mouth. I'm not really crazy about cutting hard maple because they do seem to be hollow more often than an oak or ash, but I've never really seen a difference in cutting a Maple over any other tree (actually I really like soft maple).


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## 385XP (Jul 28, 2008)

I have not noticed any difference cutting maple from any other tree. I like cutting soft maple the footage ads up in a hurry. Hard maple isnt bad either except if there big old junkers with big hearts the wood can be vary hard compared with trees with small hearts


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## Ohiowoodguy (Jul 28, 2008)

oldchuck said:


> I'm wondering what kind of maple these western guys are talking about...



Everything is bigger and more dangerous in the PNW- sorta like Texas, but without the death penaltyoke: .


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## slowp (Jul 28, 2008)

Here's from a Canadian Tree Book.
_Bigleaf maple
Acer macrophyllum

The largest maple in Canada, reaching heights of 36 metres. When it grows in the forest, it develops a narrow crown that is supported by a stem free of branches for half its length. Those growing in the open have a broad crown which is supported by a few large, spreading limbs.




Leaves
Leaves are deeply five-lobed and are the largest of any maple in Canada, measuring 15 to 30 centimetres across. They have only a few bluntish, wavy teeth; are shiny, dark green on top and paler underneath; and turn yellow in the fall. The leaf stalk sometimes oozes a milky substance when it is broken. Twigs and leaves emerge as pairs. 

Flowers
Small greenish-yellow flowers, about 3 millimetres across, appear early in spring, hanging in clusters at the ends of twigs.
Fruit
The fruit consists of two winged seeds joined at the base. Seeds are hairy, 3 to 6 centimetres long. 


Bark
Greyish-brown, shallowly grooved when older. 
Where to find bigleaf maple
It is restricted to the southwest corner of British Columbia at low to mid elevations. 


Habitat
Bigleaf maple generally grows on coarse, gravelly, moist soils, such as those found near river, lake, or stream edges, but it can occur on other moist soils such as seepage areas. It commonly occurs in mixed groups of trees with red alder, black cottonwood, Douglas-fir, western redcedar, and western hemlock. 
Squirrels, grosbeaks, and mice eat the seeds of bigleaf maples, and deer and elk eat the twigs. 


Uses
Coastal peoples used bigleaf maple wood to make dishes, pipes and hooks for clothing. Many groups who made paddles out of the wood called it the paddle tree. They used the inner bark to make baskets, rope and whisks for whipping soopolalie berries. 
In the Interior, aboriginal people ate the young shoots raw in the spring. They also made a type of maple syrup, but because the sap has a low sugar content, it takes a large quantity of sap to make a small amount of syrup. 

Because of its close grain and moderate hardness, maple wood is used commercially for furniture, interior finishing, and musical instruments. 


Notes
Maple flowers are quite sweet and edible and can be used in salads. 
Bigleaf maple trees are often draped in mosses, because the bark is rich in calcium and moisture, adding to the attractive wet rainforest plant community. _ 

I shall have to sample the flowers next Spring. I think we have a death penalty too, but I'm not sure. We used to prior to my going away in Exile.

There's also the much hated Vine Maple. You have to keep an eye out for it while limbing. It'll get you if you don't.


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## Humptulips (Jul 28, 2008)

Slowp,
Vine maple makes the best smoker wood. Can't beat it for flavor and it burns when green slowly. I cut some for the smoker every year.


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## Bushler (Jul 28, 2008)

I've had my nose broken twice by spring loaded vine maple.


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## Bushler (Jul 29, 2008)

About barberchairing...the worst thing you can do is stop cutting. With todays direct drive saws and high chain speed, sharp etc., you can outcut most barberchairs. 

I fall a lot of western red alder and it will almost always pop and try to rip if it has much lean.

same with tan oak. I've seen guys leave the tree too early and watched the tan oak start to barber chair, then pull a root and really make a mess.

I'm probably going to get scolded for this, but I normaly (with exceptions) don't leave the stump until the tree is cut past the barberchair point and well on its way to the ground.


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## 2dogs (Jul 29, 2008)

Bushler said:


> About barberchairing...the worst thing you can do is stop cutting. With todays direct drive saws and high chain speed, sharp etc., you can outcut most barberchairs.
> 
> I fall a lot of western red alder and it will almost always pop and try to rip if it has much lean.
> 
> ...



Wow I consider tan oak to be a stable tree with good manners. They will roll the rootball out of the ground when it is windy but I have never seen one barberchair. That is a good one for the memory bank.


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## slowp (Jul 29, 2008)

Bushler said:


> About barberchairing...the worst thing you can do is stop cutting. With todays direct drive saws and high chain speed, sharp etc., you can outcut most barberchairs.
> 
> I fall a lot of western red alder and it will almost always pop and try to rip if it has much lean.
> 
> ...



I cut a lot of bent over alder last winter. I found it to pop at various speeds in different locations. Maybe I could get money for a grant to see if it was my imagination or really did change with location.  Alder is yet another reason for a long bar, and strong coffee.


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## Bushler (Jul 29, 2008)

Watch red alder for black knots, indicators of defect.

My first single jack cutting contract work was a stand of tan oak. Eons ago...back when Christ was just a Corporal...and tan oak first came into demand.

We relogged a bunch of the Lobster Creek drainage, Champion (then U.S. Plywood) ground. It was big oak, and heavy leaners. It took me a while to get the hang of it.

One memorable windy day I had to cut a ugly one, I was nervous about it, and when it started popping and ripping I jerked the saw out and turned to run and fell down. The oak ripped up about 30-40 ft., then bent over itself and balanced! Half the barber chaired top was stickout out one way, the the top part was sticking out the other...perpendicular to the ground, and swaying in the wind.

I couldn't decide which side of the stem the top was going to fall down on, and kept darting back and forth from one side of the tree to the other, in complete terror.

I finally just turned my back on it and walked away. The other two cutters watced the whole thing, and thought it was funny.


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## 2dogs (Jul 29, 2008)

I do have to say that tan oak is the only tree that put me in the hospital. I January 1982 our local river flooded and among other things knocked out the power so I couldn't work. I stocked up on fire wood from the down trees and then volunteeered for the Red Cross removing trees from a neighborhood. The river had risen 25' and flooded the hood, the water had been 5' deep in places, the left over mud was 3' deep. A whole tan oak with 3 trunks and a complete rootball was deposited in someone's front yard right next to an old growth redwood stump about 6' tall. I was cutting off one of the 16" dia trunks with my trusty Mac 120 (I think that was the model) when the tree popped and split and rotated in my direction. The trunk spun and hit the top of the saw and my right thigh. I felt a heavy blow but it didn't hurt much so I scrambled down. I ended up in the ER for x-rays. Nothing but a huge bruise. Still I was on crutches for a few weeks.


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