# Why do they use those small trilers?



## mercer_me

I notist that on Ax Men the trailers they use are alot smaller than the ones we use around hear. They don't look like they could hold half the wood the trailers around here do. Around here we use 8' wide trailers on public roads, and 12' on non public roads like on American Loggers. And the trailers around here are solid, they don't come apart and ride on the trucks when they don't have a load on like the ones on Ax Men do.


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## Humptulips

I don't know of any place where you can use off-highway trucks anymore. Have to be highway legal.


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## slowp

If you mean trailers, well, we have steep slopes. Those piggyback trucks can turn around in a small area, and back into our small landings. Landings are often just wide spots in the road. The bunks (help me on this guys) are designed to flex with the logs, and the trucks can go around smaller curves (radius wise) than one of your trucks. The trucker has to remember to "pull the pin" so the stakes will turn a little bit. 

The log trucks in Wisconsin and on the UP were flatbed style, and believe me, it took a large area for them to turn around in. I always told them to get real log trucks so the landings could be smaller.


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## mercer_me

Humptulips said:


> I don't know of any place where you can use off-highway trucks anymore. Have to be highway legal.





slowp said:


> The log trucks in Wisconsin and on the UP were flatbed style, and believe me, it took a large area for them to turn around in. I always told them to get real log trucks so the landings could be smaller.



In Northern Maine moste of the roads are owned by big companies, so they can drive trucks that are not street legal up there. You realy don't need that big of a place to turn a regular trailer around, you just need to cut a "slot" on the side of the road for the trucks to back into and turn around.


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## spencerhenry

a straight trailer is fine if all you do is run the highway. i forget the name of what we use here, maybe a piggy back trailer? anyway, as the truck turns with the logs, the trailer tires turn also to the outside of the turn. this makes the truck extremely manueverable. i have had logs hauled out of roads that my four door pickup with a trailer can barely make the corners. a piggy back trailer also carries around less weight, so more logs.


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## Cedarkerf

Because they drive on roads like these. Some of the logging roads around here will scare people in a car let alone driving a semi on. This isnt the best pic but its best I have in my puter. When it snows out ill go get some steep pics.


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## clearance

Cedarkerf said:


> Because they drive on roads like these. Some of the logging roads around here will scare people in a car let alone driving a semi on. This isnt the best pic but its best I have in my puter. When it snows out ill go get some steep pics.



You got 'er. I have been on some roads that scared me, even better when a big old truck with 12' bunks is screaming towards you and the driver didn't call out his mile#. Mercer, to cut a "slot" in the road out here in many places would take days and days with a rock drill, blasting, and a big hoe. It can be steep and nasty.


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## Cedarkerf

Weyerhaueser use to run these out of the Enumclaw Wa mill till early 1980's. Used to love watching them.


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## mercer_me

Cedarkerf said:


> Because they drive on roads like these. Some of the logging roads around here will scare people in a car let alone driving a semi on. This isnt the best pic but its best I have in my puter. When it snows out ill go get some steep pics.



We have roads like that in Maine.

Hear's some pics from the Pelletier Inc. site. These pics were took in Northern Maine.


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## Cedarkerf

I want to see some of those fixed trailers runnin on them


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## Humptulips

mercer_me said:


> We have roads like that in Maine.
> 
> Hear's some pics from the Pelletier Inc. site. These pics were took in Northern Maine.



So what are you going to do with something like that when you hit the highway. State patrol would love you.
Every load of logs has to travel the public highway to get to a mill so you have to have a legal load.

Sometimes get a hayrack truck for short logs but they are definite pain in the behind. Hard to get turned aroud and you have to load the front from the side which sometimes is not doable. Even then though you can only load to legal weight. I doubt one of those loads would ever leave the weigh station. Might be able to balance the state budget though if you start hauling them through the state.


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## 056 kid

Logging in maine would be great if they had sticks bigger than toothpics!


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## slowp

We also have a lot of steep grades--18% on the road that was hauled on in January here. Mix steep grades with switchbacks, and you have some complicated haul routes. Every year there's a couple that go off the edge. Usually the driver survives. 

Here's the road under construction. That's an intersection. I walked it prior to construction with the logger and marked the right of way trees for cutting.





There weren't any major switchbacks in the road, it was just cut into some steep ground.


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## Shastaron

Departments of Transportation and the Highway Patrols won't allow those big eastern loads on the roads. Forestry won't allow the road cuts. Between the small landings, narrow roads, load limits, and scales we have to down size. Also speed limit is higher when running piggy back.


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## Gologit

Shastaron said:


> Departments of Transportation and the Highway Patrols won't allow those big eastern loads on the roads. Forestry won't allow the road cuts. Between the small landings, narrow roads, load limits, and scales we have to down size. Also speed limit is higher when running piggy back.



The speed limit in California is the same with your trailer on the ground or decked...55mph. The main reason we deck our trailers is to save wear and tear on them. No point in dragging the trailer if there's no load on it.

On a yarder side and sometimes on a helicopter side you might have to back quite a ways to the landing. It's a lot easier and quicker to back up around corners and switchbacks, especially in the dark, with your trailer up.

I don't know what they allow for gross weight on logging trucks in the eastern states, but in California it's 80,000 lbs.


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## Shastaron

I stand corrected on the speed limit. Sorry.


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## Gologit

Shastaron said:


> I stand corrected on the speed limit. Sorry.



LOL...That's okay. Sometimes we wish we _could_ go faster when we're headed back to the woods. Sometimes we do. Ssshhhhh.


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## slowp

Gologit said:


> LOL...That's okay. Sometimes we wish we _could_ go faster when we're headed back to the woods. Sometimes we do. Ssshhhhh.



Well, the summertime tourist KNOWS that you all drive 60mph on all roads all the time. Shame....:greenchainsaw:


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## excess650

Gologit said:


> .
> 
> I don't know what they allow for gross weight on logging trucks in the eastern states, but in California it's 80,000 lbs.



I think 80K gross is the limit for trucks in general in Pa, but I saw trucks in Michigan that were WAY more than that.


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## computeruser

excess650 said:


> I think 80K gross is the limit for trucks in general in Pa, but I saw trucks in Michigan that were WAY more than that.



Max elected gross vehicle weight is 164,000lbs without having to obtain special oversize load/overweight load permits.


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## Gologit

slowp said:


> Well, the summertime tourist KNOWS that you all drive 60mph on all roads all the time. Shame....:greenchainsaw:



LOL...Except when they're stuck behind us and unable to pass. Then the trucks go TWENTY miles an hour and kick up dust, small rocks, and pieces of bark. And they do it on PURPOSE, too.


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## mercer_me

056 kid said:


> Logging in maine would be great if they had sticks bigger than toothpics!



The trees we have up here are just as big and bigger than the ones on Ax Men.



Humptulips said:


> So what are you going to do with something like that when you hit the highway. State patrol would love you.
> Every load of logs has to travel the public highway to get to a mill so you have to have a legal load.



We have mills that are on company roads. Or we put log yards at the end of the road, and then road legal trucks pick the logs up and bring them to a mill that's on a public road.



slowp said:


> We also have a lot of steep grades--18% on the road that was hauled on in January here. Mix steep grades with switchbacks, and you have some complicated haul routes. Every year there's a couple that go off the edge. Usually the driver survives.
> 
> Here's the road under construction. That's an intersection. I walked it prior to construction with the logger and marked the right of way trees for cutting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There weren't any major switchbacks in the road, it was just cut into some steep ground.



We have alot steeper roads than that.


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## 2dogs

mercer_me said:


> The trees we have up here are just as big and bigger than the ones on Ax Men.
> 
> 
> 
> We have mills that are on company roads. Or we put log yards at the end of the road, and then road legal trucks pick the logs up and bring them to a mill that's on a public road.
> 
> 
> 
> We have alot steeper roads than that.



Well I guess you already know the answers. Why ask.


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## Gologit

mercer_me said:


> The trees we have up here are just as big and bigger than the ones on Ax Men.
> 
> 
> 
> We have mills that are on company roads. Or we put log yards at the end of the road, and then road legal trucks pick the logs up and bring them to a mill that's on a public road.
> 
> 
> 
> We have alot steeper roads than that.



Wow.


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## wvlogger

Gologit said:


> LOL...Except when they're stuck behind us and unable to pass. Then the trucks go TWENTY miles an hour and kick up dust, small rocks, and pieces of bark. And they do it on PURPOSE, too.



i have done that before running supply truck for the the pipeline company i used to work for. would almost always be hiipys or bosses


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## GASoline71

There is no room to turn around up at a landing 5,000 feet in the mountains. So piggyback is the way to go. The shovel unloads the trailer, and the truck turns around. On some the truck turns around and backs in first... then the shovel unloads the trailer.

Oh yeah... once again... you stole my pic in your sig line mang! That was on a West Coast Western Star logtruck... so it don't belong in your Eastcoast Flatbed sig line... 

Gary


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## slowp

mercer_me said:


> The trees we have up here are just as big and bigger than the ones on Ax Men.
> 
> We have alot steeper roads than that.



Then you must live in Oregon. In the Coast Range. 

Here's a landing and a truck. He backed down to the landing from the main haul road.


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## wvlogger

slowp said:


> We also have a lot of steep grades--18% on the road that was hauled on in January here. Mix steep grades with switchbacks, and you have some complicated haul routes. Every year there's a couple that go off the edge. Usually the driver survives.
> 
> Here's the road under construction. That's an intersection. I walked it prior to construction with the logger and marked the right of way trees for cutting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There weren't any major switchbacks in the road, it was just cut into some steep ground.



when i ran dozer i had to cut some roads in a goat show like that. all old growth oak(RARE!!!) and if you would slip it wass 5000 foot to the bottom. the trees were so big i could not take my old d8 and shove them out. had to take a 270 deere trackhoe and dig them up and it was struggling. the trucks and trailers we used were the piggybacks like that. drivers had to back 1/4 mile to get into the landing or lack there of. describing this does not do justice for it. you would have to see it to understand


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## Kunes

:monkey:


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## Cedarkerf

Something in here is starting to smell a lot like hay processed by a male cow. 5000 ft cliff in a state where the highest peak is a knob 4000 some feet. well back when they clear cut mount Rainier at 14000 feet the...........


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## slowp

Yeah, they made the rest of the mountain--(410) feet wilderness. :greenchainsaw:

Did I get that right?


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## Gologit

Cedarkerf said:


> Something in here is starting to smell a lot like hay processed by a male cow. 5000 ft cliff in a state where the highest peak is a knob 4000 some feet. well back when they clear cut mount Rainier at 14000 feet the...........


:hmm3grin2orange:
Yeah, wasn't that the one where you had to pack in twenty miles uphill in the snow every morning? With A Mac 125, all your tools, gypo jugs, jacks, and an 8000 calorie lunch? And cut OG DF all day with a minimum dbh of 8"? On a 70% slope? With a 90 mph wind against the lay? And saved out everything clear to the tassle? And you were too poor to afford caulks, gloves or tin pants so you drove ten penny nails into your feet, wrapped your hands with the hide of a grizzly bear that you'd killed with your twelve pound Sager earlier that day, and drug your Friscos back and forth across a DF stump 'til the pitch came through the fabric?
Wasn't that the job where you cut six hours straight, ate your lunch while you were moving your tools, crapped while you were bucking, and then packed back out thirty miles in the snow? Uphill?

I remember that job. I had the next strip over from yours.


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## AZLOGGER

Gologit said:


> :hmm3grin2orange:
> Yeah, wasn't that the one where you had to pack in twenty miles uphill in the snow every morning? With A Mac 125, all your tools, gypo jugs, jacks, and an 8000 calorie lunch? And cut OG DF all day with a minimum dbh of 8"? On a 70% slope? With a 90 mph wind against the lay? And saved out everything clear to the tassle? And you were too poor to afford caulks, gloves or tin pants so you drove ten penny nails into your feet, wrapped your hands with the hide of a grizzly bear that you'd killed with your twelve pound Sager earlier that day, and drug your Friscos back and forth across a DF stump 'til the pitch came through the fabric?
> Wasn't that the job where you cut six hours straight, ate your lunch while you were moving your tools, crapped while you were bucking, and then packed back out thirty miles in the snow? Uphill?
> 
> I remember that job. I had the next strip over from yours.



That's some funny :censored: there!

Out here in the West, we call them (log trailers or log dollies), your East Coast style are called (hay rack trailers), a truck and pup trailer for short logs is called a (mule train).
All of our trailers are loaded on the truck for the return trip to the logging site, this saves wear and tear on the equipment and also the roads. The weight of the trailer also helps getting up steep roads without spinning the drive tires. We also get a 25% reduction in highway use taxes by having the trailers loaded on the truck for the return trip. Another benefit is our set-up is about 5,000lbs lighter than the East Coast style. A lot of other reasons are explained in previous pasts. The Hay rack type trailers were used and possibly still are used primarly for pulpwood applications, the trailers are loaded and shuttled to a spot where the highway trucks un-hook the empty trailer and hook-up to a loaded traler for trip back to the mill, less trucks needed but more trailers needed,= trailers less $'s than trucks. 
Hope this explains why we do things different out here in the Western US.


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## AZLOGGER

I would like to add that on a proper long log set-up, the trailer tires follow the same tracks as the tractor. Notice on the 1st picture the trailer has a hitch on the rear, in some *states* we could pull a pup trailer behind the long log trailer. More wood on = more $$'s per trip.


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## wvlogger

Cedarkerf said:


> Something in here is starting to smell a lot like hay processed by a male cow. 5000 ft cliff in a state where the highest peak is a knob 4000 some feet. well back when they clear cut mount Rainier at 14000 feet the...........



i am talking walking distance we were probbly 3000 foot up sorry for the misunderstanding


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## GASoline71

Kunes said:


> :monkey:



LMAO kid... and you have any experience to even post in this thread? 

Gary


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## Kunes

GASoline71 said:


> LMAO kid... and you have any experience to even post in this thread?
> 
> Gary



hey i know you were thinkin it.


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## oregoncutter

*small trailers?*

First off, I didn't know we used small trailers out here, they seem wide enough when You meet one on a switchback or try to get around one parked in Your'e way while he's waiting to back into the landing. I don't know anything about east coast logging but it seems like less work to just load Your'e logs once and haul em in rather than put them on a road legal truck to go down the highway in some cases. Did the first question refer to the over the road trailers we use here to go from logyard to mill etc etc, or the pictures of the deathtrap looking double, and triple trailers of poles. Also why would You fight BIG LOGS up a hill with a Johndeere trackhoe. Then the comment about bigger trees then what was seen on axemen, kind of puzzles me I have seen some dandys on there, and we have some nice wood here in Douglas County, was mercer talking about decidious or coniferous trees? I don't want to sound like a smart ass but this forum has my attention, I could just use a little help figuring a few things out.


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## hammerlogging

I thought everyone was from Texas, everything is always bigger in Texas.

We don't haul tree length pulp or sawlogs in HW mountain logging, so we need the 2 or 3 bunk trailers. We merchandise sawlogs at the landing. Pulpwood front bunk 20' ane back bunk 20' but can hang out the end about 8 foot. if you want. But, I wish we did have a system that allowed the smaller turn around areas. Where they do haul tree length (plantation pine) its so flat you could trun around anything.

Don't worry fellas, you've got damn fine timber out there. I highly doubt Mainers typically cut anything like your (or my) steeps. Although any one of you would have loved the poplar patch Ive clearcut Wed. and today- me and my cutting partner, about 150' deep and we've covered about 900' lengthwise up the cove. Fine bunch of cutting all sidesloped just so with a fine dreamlike SMZ area below.

Now back to the arguing...


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## PB

Mercer, been in both logging roads in Maine and WA the only thing they have in common is dirt. Out in the Cascades, it is a LOT steeper and the roads are not nearly as wide. The roads traveled up here in Maine are wide and would pass for a public road in other states. 


By the way, the trees in Maine can be just as big as those out West. Maybe not as tall, but just as big DBH. They have been logged for pulp, not lumber so some timber is much smaller. We also have some pretty big white pine that goes an easy 6' DBH. I will have to get pictures on my next hike.


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## capetrees

I think what mercer me is saying that some don't understand, in Maine, MOST of the state is owned by lumber companies. Almost the entire central part of the stte is owned and controlled by private companies. They make their own rules on the roads within their property and they have the mills on their property so there are no speed limits, no size limits and no length limits. I've been up there years ago white water rafting and if there is a truck coming, you better get out of their way. It's not that they can't stop or are driving out of control, they just don't care and don't need to share the road. They own it. 

I haven't been out west ever but am under the assumption from watching the shows that almost as soon as the truck leaves the mountain, they hit the road and as such, speed limits and size limits are regulated. Not so in most of Maine logging territory. From time to time the lumber compainies sell off some of the property they own, 500,000 acres at a time.


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## 68 Automag

500,000 acres. That's about half of Maine isn't it? Haha


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## MR4WD

mercer_me said:


> We have roads like that in Maine.
> 
> Hear's some pics from the Pelletier Inc. site. These pics were took in Northern Maine.



The hoods and rads on either of those trucks aren't big enough to stuff a big mountain engine in. Not that you can't keep dropping gears to pull a load up a hill, but it mostly comes from engine braking. Takes a lot more than 350-400 horse to slow down a big load from a decent hill. You're talking 500 horse and the ability to use it, nothing like those highway macks could handle. 

I've been jammed up with two empty pickups passing each other on a switchback before, no way either one of those trailers could handle anything around here.


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## slowp

Sometimes the trucks here can't pull their load up away from the landing and have to have help.







That truck is going up the lower road that was in the previous photo. In the Summer, the pummy soils can be a pain when paired with a steep grade. Rock is hard to come by so the push me pull me technique is used. 

I dreaded driving on the road pictured above in the winter. There's a couple places I can't see over the pickup hood. They were towing in the empty trucks with the D-7. The cat operator kept the snow and ice off the road so it wasn't as bad as it could have been.


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## PB

capetrees said:


> I think what mercer me is saying that some don't understand, in Maine, MOST of the state is owned by lumber companies. Almost the entire central part of the stte is owned and controlled by private companies. They make their own rules on the roads within their property and they have the mills on their property so there are no speed limits, no size limits and no length limits. I've been up there years ago white water rafting and if there is a truck coming, you better get out of their way. It's not that they can't stop or are driving out of control, they just don't care and don't need to share the road. They own it.
> 
> I haven't been out west ever but am under the assumption from watching the shows that almost as soon as the truck leaves the mountain, they hit the road and as such, speed limits and size limits are regulated. Not so in most of Maine logging territory. From time to time the lumber compainies sell off some of the property they own, 500,000 acres at a time.



You are correct, and to pull those load they build the roads bigger than they do out west. Pelletier wouldn't be able to pull double trailers if they didn't build the roads for them. i can drive from central Maine to Canada without ever hitting a public road. Most of the trailers are road legal, but a handful are not. 



68 Automag said:


> 500,000 acres. That's about half of Maine isn't it? Haha



Maine is 33,000 square MILES, all of it is timber, and Maine is also the most heavily wooded state in the country. Out in Oregon and Washington, the farther east you get the more it looks like a dessert. Not sure how much timber is out that way.


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## mercer_me

slowp said:


> Sometimes the trucks here can't pull their load up away from the landing and have to have help.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That truck is going up the lower road that was in the previous photo. In the Summer, the pummy soils can be a pain when paired with a steep grade. Rock is hard to come by so the push me pull me technique is used.
> 
> I dreaded driving on the road pictured above in the winter. There's a couple places I can't see over the pickup hood. They were towing in the empty trucks with the D-7. The cat operator kept the snow and ice off the road so it wasn't as bad as it could have been.



Why doesn't he have tire chains on? If he had tire chains on he could go up that hill no probablem.


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## forestryworks

mercer_me said:


> Why doesn't he have tire chains on? If he had tire chains on he could go up that hill no probablem.



too much time to put chains on and take them off when you get on the highways and go to the mills.

time is money.


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## mercer_me

forestryworks said:


> too much time to put chains on and take them off when you get on the highways and go to the mills.
> 
> time is money.



It doesn't take to much time to put chains on. Most road legal trucks around here have chains with them so when they go on a road that's not sanded they can go up it with out having to pushed or pulled.


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## Gologit

mercer_me said:


> Why doesn't he have tire chains on? If he had tire chains on he could go up that hill no probablem.



Well, Hell kid...why don't you just get your East Coast butt out there and tell them that? I'm sure all the left coast loggers are just waiting for somebody like you that knows so very much to help them with all their problems. Should we wait for you to show up and run the show or just kind of bumble along by ourselves in the meantime?

And, for what it's worth, junior, I've had chains on both sets of drivers, the interlock in and both sets of locking rear ends activated,...and still had to be pushed. And that's with a 500 Cat with an 18 speed.

I'm sure that you, with your vast store of left coast logging knowledge and your years of experience with PNW snow conditions already know this but sometimes it's easier on everything if a push-cat gives the truck a little help up a steep grade. Much less wear and tear on the truck and on the road as well.


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## RRSsawshop

Gologit said:


> Well, Hell kid...why don't you just get your East Coast butt out there and tell them that? I'm sure all the left coast loggers are just waiting for somebody like you that knows so very much to help them with all their problems. Should we wait for you to show up and run the show or just kind of bumble along by ourselves in the meantime?
> 
> And, for what it's worth, junior, I've had chains on both sets of drivers, the interlock in and both sets of locking rear ends activated,...and still had to be pushed. And that's with a 500 Cat with an 18 speed.
> 
> I'm sure that you, with your vast store of left coast logging knowledge and your years of experience with PNW snow conditions already know this but sometimes it's easier on everything if a push-cat gives the truck a little help up a steep grade. Much less wear and tear on the truck and on the road as well.


:agree2:  I'll give you some Rep on that!!! These kids havn't been in the woods too long cause we do the same thing here too!! Heck I've seen a CAT pushing and a Skidder pulling Log Trucks around here!!! Less wear on equipment and easier on the road plus it saves time.They havn't put on many sets of dually chains I bet !!!:hmm3grin2orange:


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## hammerlogging

We did all the mountain sculpting possible with excavator and a JD 850 on the access to our current tract but every truck enterring empty is still pushed up the slope- its just a 150' pitch to get up to the nice graded in woods road. When its dry they could make it, maybe, but why go with maybe when you've got the old 750 there for pushing. Its rocked and everything. 

i.e pushing is normal.


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## oregoncutter

*Keep pushing them small trailers on up*

I agree with Gologit.
:agree2: I have spent a little time running a Loader, back when i was on a yarder side one job in particular we had about a 50yd stretch of steep, muddy road, being spring time in S.W oregon and on clay that spur got pretty slick in a hurry, the cats were all being used for guylines, and tailholds, I'd just let the drivers try to pull out, and if they had trouble it only took me a minute or so to give em the nudge they needed to pull out on their own, one driver did chain up I remember because he spent what seemed like an eternity doing it, and when he went to pull out he just dug himself a hole that i had to fill in bfore my next truck could back down. I also wonder how a guy that isn't working out here on the west coast can tell us how we should be doing things here. I do agree I am sure there are times when it's feasable to run chains on trucks but not many from my experience( I am not a log truck driver). I might offend some people but sems like since axemen came on T.V alot of people watch it and become experts on logging, maybe the same with the other shows I don't know.


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## chainsawboy1996

maines got a ton of pecker polls


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## slowp

RRSsawshop said:


> :agree2:  I'll give you some Rep on that!!! These kids havn't been in the woods too long cause we do the same thing here too!! Heck I've seen a CAT pushing and a Skidder pulling Log Trucks around here!!! Less wear on equipment and easier on the road plus it saves time.They havn't put on many sets of dually chains I bet !!!:hmm3grin2orange:



That truck in the photo most likely had chains on. They run with them on most of the time in the winter here. While the spur road was in pretty good shape, the paved road below was snow and ice. 

We called a skidder pulling and cat pushing, a push me pull me.


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## PB

chainsawboy1996 said:


> maines got a ton of pecker polls



Have you been to Maine? You're 12 years old, have you left your backyard?

Learn how to spell, it's POLES! Unless your talking about male bovine.


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## slowp

PlantBiologist said:


> Have you been to Maine? You're 12 years old, have you left your backyard?
> 
> Learn how to spell, it's POLES! Unless your talking about male bovine.




Ah, um, check your last sentence for spelling/usage. *YOU'RE* not quite right either.


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## PB

slowp said:


> Ah, um, check your last sentence for spelling/usage. *YOU'RE* not quite right either.



Don't see it, little help?


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## mercer_me

Could you use a truck like this? It has a big trailer and it can haul the trailer on the back.


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## oregoncutter

*that's a big truck!*

I don't know if that would fit down alot of our paved roads, or under bridges, underpasses, and traffic lights.


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## GASoline71

Not a whole lot of off highway truck used much anymore... there are still some areas that use them like in a lot of the Weyerhouser owned land.

Sounds to me like you have all the right answers to everything to do with West side loggin'... you ought to come on out and teach us some tricks.

Also... GET RID OF MY "CALVIN" PICTURE IN YOUR SIG LINE! You are disgracing West Coast loggin' with that pic in your east side sig line.

Gary


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## 2dogs

mercer_me said:


> Could you use a truck like this? It has a big trailer and it can haul the trailer on the back.



I guess you don't bother reading the responces to your childish questions. it was explained to you that trucks out here travel on public roads to reach a mill. Your pic is of an off-highway truck. Those can't travel on a public road. Do you need me to repeat that? 

To the rest of us, I think Mercer will be banned soon. Or his mom will take away his computer.


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## Gologit

2dogs said:


> I guess you don't bother reading the responces to your childish questions. it was explained to you that trucks out here travel on public roads to reach a mill. Your pic is of an off-highway truck. Those can't travel on a public road. Do you need me to repeat that?
> 
> To the rest of us, I think Mercer will be banned soon. Or his mom will take away his computer.



Yup. We can only hope.


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## hammerlogging

I've wondered if you couldn't run a tri axle with a piggy back pup trailer setup. They can haul more tons than a semi log trailer, if you could just turn them around.

I was on an outfit on SE TN that used on offroad trailer for the 8 miles out to the pavement, it just dropped trailers for the highway haulers. The mill supplied the truck, instead of the rock I guess. Highway trailers though, and just a 6x6 (oshkosh?), not like those BC rigs pictured. Now those are big iron!


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## wvlogger

hammerlogging said:


> I've wondered if you couldn't run a tri axle with a piggy back pup trailer setup. They can haul more tons than a semi log trailer, if you could just turn them around.
> 
> I was on an outfit on SE TN that used on offroad trailer for the 8 miles out to the pavement, it just dropped trailers for the highway haulers. The mill supplied the truck, instead of the rock I guess. Highway trailers though, and just a 6x6 (oshkosh?), not like those BC rigs pictured. Now those are big iron!



the trucks you are talking about sound like hetts or old surplus am general military trucks shaped a lot like this http://www.fsmm.org/collection_images/buttons/DSC00083.JPG


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## mercer_me

2dogs said:


> I guess you don't bother reading the responces to your childish questions. it was explained to you that trucks out here travel on public roads to reach a mill. Your pic is of an off-highway truck. Those can't travel on a public road. Do you need me to repeat that?
> 
> To the rest of us, I think Mercer will be banned soon. Or his mom will take away his computer.



Soory I forgot to put that that mite work if you used it until you got to a public road. Yould use it on the company land and drop the wood off at the end of the road and a leagal truck could pick it up, but I forgot that you only have to travel a few miles on company land.


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## capetrees

I don't know why mercer would be banned. He posts some questions, loaded, and the rest of you get bent. Lighten up. Seems to me the west coast loggers are very thin skinned. Don't see too many Maine loggers in here bragging about how they do everything right. Oh, that might be because they're in the woods working!


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## oregoncutter

*That's a cheap shot!*

Quote
Posted by Capetrees"Seems to me the west coast loggers are very thin skinned. Don't see too many Maine loggers in here bragging about how they do everything right. Oh, that might be because they're in the woods working!"

I don't know that the mercer needs to be banned for asking alot of questions, then giving the answers to them, hey as long as the guys learning something I guess it doesen't hurt.
I don't think Loggers on the West coast are neccessarily thin skinned, but just from my own experience logging there is nothing worse than someone who doesen't have any experience trying to tell You how to do something, it wastes time, money, focuss, and I take it as being disrespectful, also I think most of us out here don't put up with it, and shut it down quickly for those very reasons.
As far as the comment made by Capetrees I don't think much of it. I don't think any logical person on the West or East coast think that they do everything right. I have never been to the East coast so I would expect You know more about logging there than I do even if You sounded like a know it all. I am fortunate enough to be working right now, but have alot of friends that aren't and would like to be, and it is by no means due to mistakes that they have made, and I highly doubt that Maine's timber industry is immune to our rough financial times due to the overcompetency of folks like Youre'self.


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## PB

capetrees said:


> I don't know why mercer would be banned. He posts some questions, loaded, and the rest of you get bent. Lighten up. Seems to me the west coast loggers are very thin skinned. Don't see too many Maine loggers in here bragging about how they do everything right. Oh, that might be because they're in the woods working!



Some are more thin skinned than others. #####ing and yelling don't make you tough.


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## oregoncutter

*cussing and yelling*

I agree cussing and yelling don't make You tough, I never got too far by cussing and yelling, however I have seen cussing and yelling as the preluide to a pretty good ass kicking quite a few times, and know a few cusser yellers that are pretty tough. It's pretty normal around here in the woods for guys to cuss and yell at eachother from time to time and most just don't take it personally. I think It's great the East coast uses a big trucks and trailers whre feasable, and out here most the time they aren't what we have works, doesen't mean that anybody's right or wrong.


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## MR4WD

capetrees said:


> I don't know why mercer would be banned. He posts some questions, loaded, and the rest of you get bent. Lighten up. Seems to me the west coast loggers are very thin skinned. Don't see too many Maine loggers in here bragging about how they do everything right. Oh, that might be because they're in the woods working!



or, it could be because east coast logging isn't really that big a deal. Haven't seen too many saw manufacturers pump out "east coast dawgs" or "east coast" saws. That mack with the big hayrack looks like it's based on a Pacific log truck.

West coast big trees are in the mountains from Alaska to California. Apparently, maine has big trees. Maine could fit in an area as big as coastal oregon, washington or bc... Big deal.

If maine was a big deal to logging, it would probably have tv shows about logging out there... like the west coast does.


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## GASoline71

capetrees said:


> I don't know why mercer would be banned. He posts some questions, loaded, and the rest of you get bent. Lighten up. Seems to me the west coast loggers are very thin skinned. Don't see too many Maine loggers in here bragging about how they do everything right. Oh, that might be because they're in the woods working!



LMAO... go F:censored: yourself...

Is that thin skinned enuff?

Gary


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## Gologit

capetrees said:


> I don't know why mercer would be banned. He posts some questions, loaded, and the rest of you get bent. Lighten up. Seems to me the west coast loggers are very thin skinned. Don't see too many Maine loggers in here bragging about how they do everything right. Oh, that might be because they're in the woods working!



Hey, no problem...we'll just let *you* answer all the kid's questions from now on.
No, wait a minute...that won't work. To answer his questions you'd have to know more than he does and that's obviously not happening. 
We don't mind his questions...it's just his opinions on things that he doesn't know anything about that rub us the wrong way. He's like one of of those jabbery little kids that would drive you nuts with constant meaningless babble until you'd get fed up and make him ride in the back of the crummy. Kind of like you.


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## PB

MR4WD said:


> If maine was a big deal to logging, it would probably have tv shows about logging out there... like the west coast does.



Hahaha! American loggers?

I would like to see any of these "tough" guys on Axe-men work on a dairy farm for a couple of days.


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## 2dogs

PlantBiologist said:


> Hahaha! American loggers?
> 
> I would like to see any of these "tough" guys on Axe-men work on a dairy farm for a couple of days.



Those east coast loggers are dairy farmers? Well that explains alot right there. Out here we run beef cattle on ranches!!! No docile Jerseys. Black Angus cows with real bulls, no AI. What the f iretr uck is next? Midwestern sheep farmers with Poulans cutting flowers?


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## capetrees

See what i mean. They all can't wait to explain themselves when called on it. Go back to work.


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## forestryworks

PlantBiologist said:


> Hahaha! American loggers?
> 
> I would like to see any of these "tough" guys on Axe-men work on a dairy farm for a couple of days.



i've worked on a dairy farm. easy as pie.


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## RPM

Hmmmmm......shoveling sh*t in the barn...... or humping your ass up and down some hillside in the pissing rain pulling rigging or falling trees, running skidder, buncher, driving real log trucks on real logging roads around some real nasty tight switchbacks down the side of some west coast mountain...

You pick.....seems like a no brainer to me which is harder ...


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## Cedarkerf

2dogs said:


> Those east coast loggers are dairy farmers? Well that explains alot right there. Out here we run beef cattle on ranches!!! No docile Jerseys. Black Angus cows with real bulls, no AI. What the f iretr uck is next? Midwestern sheep farmers with Poulans cutting flowers?


You got rep for thatopcorn:


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## oregoncutter

*Out on the riggin*

I wish I was still pullin riggin, I'd invite a few of these guys out for an all inclusive reality check vacation to the real world of logging. Make em or break em!


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## PB

2dogs said:


> Those east coast loggers are dairy farmers? Well that explains alot right there. Out here we run beef cattle on ranches!!! No docile Jerseys. Black Angus cows with real bulls, no AI. What the f iretr uck is next? Midwestern sheep farmers with Poulans cutting flowers?



My point was, with all the #####ing and moaning that goes on with *Ax-men* (not you) you would think they were pulling the trees up the hill by hand.

Ranching is easy by the way, put them out to pasture and deal with them twice a year. Try milking a pissed off cow 3 times a day X 600 angry cows.


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## Jkebxjunke

forestryworks said:


> i've worked on a dairy farm. easy as pie.



Cow Pies?


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## PB

I do think you all proved CapeTrees point though. 

I respect the job you guys do, and understand it is tough. Whenever someone criticizes some of you, you get all defensive and say the "come out here and try it" line. I would gladly come out there, if you come to my family's farm and put in a solid 16 hour day. 

You may have a tough job, but I don't think you guys understand that you aren't that special.


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## mercer_me

MR4WD said:


> If maine was a big deal to logging, it would probably have tv shows about logging out there... like the west coast does.



We do have a logging tv show it's called American Loggers.


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## Boleclimber

Comparing north east coast logging techniques to west coast logging is like comparing "apples to oranges". 

The terrain, soils, slopes, weather, laws, tree species and techniques are completely different. There is a reason why the majority of lumber comes from the west coast, it is more efficient to log west coast timber. Yes the equipment is more expensive but the timber is more valuable.

Take it from a north east coast boy who has been educated by retired west coast foresters. The east coast could learn a few things by incorporating west coast techniques. The trouble is our timber is not as valuable as the west and the cost/benefit ratio comes into play.

For example, the east coast needs to truck three times the amount of wood to a mill to receive a livable wage. The majority of east coast timber is low quality. The paper/pulp and energy market is what keeps the northeast logging. The veneer market is simply a nice supplement.


Also, think back to the mid 1900's when trucking was a booming industry. The west coast was leading the nation in trucking technology advancement with aluminum trailers, turboed engines and bud wheels.

Between logging and trucking, the west coast is doing superb with out northeast coast input.

Stand back, let them be, and learn!


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## treeclimber101

Does everyone drive like this , this truck is terrifying to old ladies http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tl911P93qUk


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## 68 Automag

PlantBiologist said:


> Maine is 33,000 square MILES, all of it is timber, and Maine is also the most heavily wooded state in the country. Out in Oregon and Washington, the farther east you get the more it looks like a dessert. Not sure how much timber is out that way.



Haha, that was a joke man, meant to lighten the mood in this topic


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## mimilkman1

PlantBiologist said:


> Hahaha! American loggers?
> 
> I would like to see any of these "tough" guys on Axe-men work on a dairy farm for a couple of days.



Amen to that. Especially during hay season.

Kyle


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## RRSsawshop

:agree2:


slowp said:


> That truck in the photo most likely had chains on. They run with them on most of the time in the winter here. While the spur road was in pretty good shape, the paved road below was snow and ice.
> 
> We called a skidder pulling and cat pushing, a push me pull me.



I agree the pic is taken from too far away to see if it had chains on. But you just have to love some of these know it all kids that think they can do it better then the seasoned vets out there!!! REALLY PISSES ME OFF!!!:chainsawguy:


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## slowp

PlantBiologist said:


> My point was, with all the #####ing and moaning that goes on with *Ax-men* (not you) you would think they were pulling the trees up the hill by hand.
> 
> Ranching is easy by the way, put them out to pasture and deal with them twice a year. Try milking a pissed off cow 3 times a day X 600 angry cows.



So, that would make you tend to do an unstylish fauxpas. Rubber boots with the pants tucked in. Then, a seasoned PNW logger would look at you, spit and mumble, "Must be a _*Farmer Logger*_." That is not a compliment. I don't know how it came to be but I've heard it many times and it isn't a good thing to be. 

Other uses, "_They look like Farmer Loggers." "You look like a Farmer Logger_."

I even heard an equipment manufacturer from Idaho say, "They look like Farmer Loggers." 

Never a good thing.


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## hammerlogging

MR4WD said:


> or, it could be because east coast logging isn't really that big a deal. Haven't seen too many saw manufacturers pump out "east coast dawgs" or "east coast" saws. That mack with the big hayrack looks like it's based on a Pacific log truck.
> 
> West coast big trees are in the mountains from Alaska to California. Apparently, maine has big trees. Maine could fit in an area as big as coastal oregon, washington or bc... Big deal.
> 
> If maine was a big deal to logging, it would probably have tv shows about logging out there... like the west coast does.



If I may remind you of the countless bore cutting threads. Why we specifically have to use half wrap bars for low stumps. That we log in woods with over 180 species of plants, the most biodiverse temperate forest in the world. Just to stir the pot. I don't really give a damn, am stoked to work in the woods all day every day, and would love to cut some west coast timber, and would love to have a west coaster come hang in my Appalachians for a day or so.

Oh, by the way, the crew of Alaskans hired to staff our yarder failed miserably. Just to stir the pot. Wood's too heavy, scared of out poisonous snakes, you name it. 

With all due respect...... Its not everyone to mouth off, and I appreciate that. I enjoy talking shop with you folks. But, felt like I'd get some clarification in.


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## Kunes

unsubscribe time, every time i look at the title and it says trilers instead of trailers i just wanna kill it.opcorn:


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## GASoline71

Eastside guys are pu$$ies!!!
































j/k  

I'd love to come out and cut with you lot... as well as I would like to have you come out here and cut too... 

Beers!!! Hell yeah!!!  I might even be able to choke down a PBR or 10...

Gary


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## JCBearss

slowp said:


> So, that would make you tend to do an unstylish fauxpas. Rubber boots with the pants tucked in. Then, a seasoned PNW logger would look at you, spit and mumble, "Must be a _*Farmer Logger*_." That is not a compliment. I don't know how it came to be but I've heard it many times and it isn't a good thing to be.
> 
> Other uses, "_They look like Farmer Loggers." "You look like a Farmer Logger_."
> 
> I even heard an equipment manufacturer from Idaho say, "They look like Farmer Loggers."
> 
> Never a good thing.



I must add something here even as a novice, my grandfather bless his soul was a dairy farmer in the Adirondacks of New York State for 45 years on the same farm her was born at. After the milk market got worse, my grandmother died and he got older he logged his land (about 350 acres) by himself. He had two tractors and one starter. One was set up as a make shift skidder the other had the trailer on it. He would change the starter everytime he needed a different tractor. He logged until he was 72 years old, he had diabetes. One day he was going out the barn with his friend to show him his new saw and had a stoke. He worked in the woods until the day he died almost. About two weeks later he passed. I am not writing this to jerk a tear from someones eye I just want to say that in any camp that is one tough tenacious man dairy farmer or logger.


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## capetrees

Why do they use those small trailers? Well, you know what they say about a guy with big feet? Conversely, ya know what they say about a guy with a small trailer!:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


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## PB

GASoline71 said:


> Beers!!! Hell yeah!!!  I might even be able to choke down a PBR or 10...
> 
> Gary



Gary, you ever make it to Maine I will buy you all the PBR you can drink. It will only cost me a few dollars. (PBR's a cheap date, not you )


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## Gologit

PlantBiologist said:


> Gary, you ever make it to Maine I will buy you all the PBR you can drink. It will only cost me a few dollars. (PBR's a cheap date, not you )



Hey, Spud Man...better save up your nickles and dimes.


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## oregoncutter

*With all the milking going on where's the time to log.*

Quote from plantbiologist "Ranching is easy by the way, put them out to pasture and deal with them twice a year. Try milking a pissed off cow 3 times a day X 600 angry cows. "
I figure that's about 5 minutes a cow milking by hand, maybe more when they are really pissed off, at 3 times a day times 600 head on Your'e own, You would be spending 150 hours in a 24 hour day milking the cows, there is no way any of us West coast loggers can match that. Having ranchers in my family I can say it's more than a twice a year occurrence to take care of livestock out here. I am not a dairy farmer, but have had to milk a cow or two, and hope my math was close. 
I do think it's interesting learning how things are done in the East, but alot of You guys definitely have a different outlook on things, I don't know how many of You have logged out here but I don't see how You can criticize it or judge how hard we work till You have done it Yourselves.


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## hammerlogging

w


GASoline71 said:


> Eastside guys are pu$$ies!!!
> 
> j/k
> 
> Gary


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## ropensaddle

GASoline71 said:


> Eastside guys are pu$$ies!!!
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> 
> I'd love to come out and cut with you lot... as well as I would like to have you come out here and cut too...
> 
> Beers!!! Hell yeah!!!  I might even be able to choke down a PBR or 10...
> 
> Gary


You do mean east of the mighty Mississippi eh Gary?:monkey:


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## slowp

hammerlogging said:


> If I may remind you of the countless bore cutting threads. Why we specifically have to use half wrap bars for low stumps. That we log in woods with over 180 species of plants, the most biodiverse temperate forest in the world. Just to stir the pot. I don't really give a damn, am stoked to work in the woods all day every day, and would love to cut some west coast timber, and would love to have a west coaster come hang in my Appalachians for a day or so.
> 
> Oh, by the way, the crew of Alaskans hired to staff our yarder failed miserably. Just to stir the pot. Wood's too heavy, scared of out poisonous snakes, you name it.
> 
> With all due respect...... Its not everyone to mouth off, and I appreciate that. I enjoy talking shop with you folks. But, felt like I'd get some clarification in.



Ooops, you win with the snakes and the bugs. Your snakes don't rattle. We don't have any poisonous ones on this side of the Cascades where I live. And I don't like ticks and I'm sure chiggers would be bad. I'm out of this argument--you win.


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## PB

oregoncutter said:


> Quote from plantbiologist "Ranching is easy by the way, put them out to pasture and deal with them twice a year. Try milking a pissed off cow 3 times a day X 600 angry cows. "
> I figure that's about 5 minutes a cow milking by hand, maybe more when they are really pissed off, at 3 times a day times 600 head on Your'e own, You would be spending 150 hours in a 24 hour day milking the cows, there is no way any of us West coast loggers can match that. Having ranchers in my family I can say it's more than a twice a year occurrence to take care of livestock out here. I am not a dairy farmer, but have had to milk a cow or two, and hope my math was close.
> I do think it's interesting learning how things are done in the East, but alot of You guys definitely have a different outlook on things, I don't know how many of You have logged out here but I don't see how You can criticize it or judge how hard we work till You have done it Yourselves.



Well, you obviously know about as much about dairy farming as I do about west coast logging. 

In a milking parlor we can milk up to 24 cows at a time. Milking 600 cows takes about 3-4 hours 3 times a day. 4-5 hours when we were on the twice a day schedule.


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## PB

slowp said:


> Ooops, you win with the snakes and the bugs. Your snakes don't rattle. We don't have any poisonous ones on this side of the Cascades where I live. And I don't like ticks and I'm sure chiggers would be bad. I'm out of this argument--you win.



They do rattle.


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## PB

Gologit said:


> Hey, Spud Man...better save up your nickles and dimes.



Nickel and dime will buy me 1.5 PBR during finals week.


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## oregoncutter

*not a dairy farmer*

:agree2:quote by plantbiologist"Well, you obviously know about as much about dairy farming as I do about west coast logging. 
In a milking parlor we can milk up to 24 cows at a time. Milking 600 cows takes about 3-4 hours 3 times a day. 4-5 hours when we were on the twice a day schedule"". 
Notice I did say milking by hand in my original post, I figured You must have a modern setup, and Yeah I have no idea how long it takes to milk one using modern technology.


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## PB

oregoncutter said:


> :agree2:quote by plantbiologist"Well, you obviously know about as much about dairy farming as I do about west coast logging.
> In a milking parlor we can milk up to 24 cows at a time. Milking 600 cows takes about 3-4 hours 3 times a day. 4-5 hours when we were on the twice a day schedule"".
> Notice I did say milking by hand in my original post, I figured You must have a modern setup, and Yeah I have no idea how long it takes to milk one using modern technology.



about 4-6 minutes per cow. Some take longer depending on how much milk they have and if they are sick, or kick you, or kick the milker off.


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## GASoline71

I worked on a dairy farm here in WA state back in the 80's for a stint... the 3rd largest one in the state... All I can say is... we worked rotating 10 hour shifts for 9 months... I remember the one thing the guy that was in charge of the milkin' parlor always said... "You can't shut off cows, and we gots lots of 'em." 

The one weird thing I do remember is the dudes that worked in the calving barns... always had a goofy smile on their faces... Don't know what goes on in those barns... but the movie "The Cowboy Way" comes to mind... 

DERAIL!!!

Gary


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## Jkebxjunke

lets not forget all the other work that goes with the milking... there is the cleaning and lets not forget the feeding of the cows... they can eat alot... so its not just the milking.. there is alot that goes into the dairy herd... now i am not knocking anyone's jobs.. just each one has its own set of difficulties... and alot of then take a special kind of person... not everyone is cut out to be a logger and not everyone is cut out to be a dairy farmer. 

Hey PB... what ever happened to the hammer wielding 'saw mechanic' family member?


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## PB

GASoline71 said:


> I worked on a dairy farm here in WA state back in the 80's for a stint... the 3rd largest one in the state... All I can say is... we worked rotating 10 hour shifts for 9 months... I remember the one thing the guy that was in charge of the milkin' parlor always said... "You can't shut off cows, and we gots lots of 'em."
> 
> The one weird thing I do remember is the dudes that worked in the calving barns... always had a goofy smile on their faces... Don't know what goes on in those barns... but the movie "The Cowboy Way" comes to mind...
> 
> DERAIL!!!
> 
> Gary


 
They don't take holidays off either. 



Jkebxjunke said:


> lets not forget all the other work that goes with the milking... there is the cleaning and lets not forget the feeding of the cows... they can eat alot... so its not just the milking.. there is alot that goes into the dairy herd... now i am not knocking anyone's jobs.. just each one has its own set of difficulties... and alot of then take a special kind of person... not everyone is cut out to be a logger and not everyone is cut out to be a dairy farmer.
> 
> Hey PB... what ever happened to the hammer wielding 'saw mechanic' family member?



He's still around, but has settled down a bit. Or maybe my family has just stopped telling me all of the #### he pulls. He can't get anywhere near my saws now. I will be home in 2 weeks, so we will see.


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## Jkebxjunke

PlantBiologist said:


> They don't take holidays off either.
> 
> 
> 
> He's still around, but has settled down a bit. Or maybe my family has just stopped telling me all of the #### he pulls. He can't get anywhere near my saws now. I will be home in 2 weeks, so we will see.



so when you get home you will hear all the latest dirt.... or they haven't told you that he was trying to cut concrete with one of your saws... LOL


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## hammerlogging

slowp said:


> Ooops, you win with the snakes and the bugs. Your snakes don't rattle. We don't have any poisonous ones on this side of the Cascades where I live. And I don't like ticks and I'm sure chiggers would be bad. I'm out of this argument--you win.



It ain't about winning or losing, just part of the good times.

One of the other cutters killed a copperhead today, and another cutter got one 2 days age (the hookers should appreciate that) so snake season is on. Next, yellowjackets. 

How about this for fun... a couple of days ago I stepped in an old core sample hole- looking for coal seams back in the day (now I guess they do it seismo) Took one step and there I was thigh deep one leg in a hole. Surprise!.

There are places where the whole mountain has shifted making crevasse like rifts hundred of feet long and who knows how deep. From old underground mines "settiling".

Now why do you all use those stupid little trailers again?


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## Gologit

hammerlogging said:


> It ain't about winning or losing, just part of the good times.
> 
> 
> 
> Now why do you all use those stupid little trailers again?




LOL...We do it just to aggravate kids who watch too much television.


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## wvlogger

hammerlogging said:


> It ain't about winning or losing, just part of the good times.
> 
> One of the other cutters killed a copperhead today, and another cutter got one 2 days age (the hookers should appreciate that) so snake season is on. Next, yellowjackets.
> 
> How about this for fun... a couple of days ago I stepped in an old core sample hole- looking for coal seams back in the day (now I guess they do it seismo) Took one step and there I was thigh deep one leg in a hole. Surprise!.
> 
> There are places where the whole mountain has shifted making crevasse like rifts hundred of feet long and who knows how deep. From old underground mines "settiling".
> 
> 
> Now why do you all use those stupid little trailers again?




round here we still do the drilling for core samples. quite a neat deal to watch


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## RandyMac

Well now, that was some fun.

These were company owned trucks, on company land, rarely saw pavement. They did make highway trucks seem lightly built.


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