# Whats the best type of chain for cutting down palm trees?



## Grizzly

I just purchased a MS 250 I just got and the chain is shot. I started to give me trouble after I cut down a small Washingtonian palm tree. What is the best way to go about doing this?
Is a regular low kick back chain the best option? I don’t have the luxury of using a cherry picker.


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## Monkeywitha_saw

what i use is 26RS chain but stay above the root ball base or 8'' above ground


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## Grizzly

Who makes that chain? 
I tried Oregon and stihl. They worked ok, but I burned through 3 chains just taking it down.


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## Ekka

Welcome to the world of palms ... get used to it, keep them razor sharp, and file often ... you can get greedier on the depth guages, 1mm or 0.040" no worries ... stay outta that rootball crud!

PS: MS250 IMHO is to gutless, once the chain is "off" it lacks the balls to keep going, on washingtonias it's gonna get beat up pretty quick.


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## l2edneck

*What kind of chain to cut down palms?*

A very big sharp one.They will dull every cut.I usually sharpen after every palm removal or about 10 palm trims.The key is not to let them get way too dull.Ive seen many burn up a bar tryin to cut em with dull chain.I use a stihl chain on everything i can.They seem to have bigger teeth than any others ive tried.Palms are just hard on chains and dont think there really is a better one than the other.


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## Old Monkey

Semi-chisel or chipper chains work better in dirty cutting situations. One problem cutting palms is having all the fibers squeezing your chain and bar. I find a newer chain holds the kerf open better. Any which way cutting on palms suck.


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## Grizzly

Ekka said:


> Welcome to the world of palms ... get used to it, keep them razor sharp, and file often ... you can get greedier on the depth guages, 1mm or 0.040" no worries ... stay outta that rootball crud!
> 
> PS: MS250 IMHO is to gutless, once the chain is "off" it lacks the balls to keep going, on washingtonias it's gonna get beat up pretty quick.



what kind of saws do you use for palms and how many have you gone through. That 250 I got is ruthless. I droped that saw out of a dozen trees and it hasn't died yet. yes I broke a few parts on it but it dosen't take much to fix.


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## Ekka

I use stihl semi chisel chain but the best ever on palms I'm unable to find anymore, may have gone out of business.

It was Sabre 2001 profile which was owned by John Deere Corp.

Rather than a point or a radius at the tip of the tooth it had a 45 degree angle, so in effect there were 2 sharp cutting points. It was a very hard chain with little stretch, equivalent to say stihl chain but I cant find it anymore, some say they went bust.

My predominant palm saw is a ms440, and yes I go thru around 1 a year, in a really busy year maybe 2 as they corrode thru to the engine etc.

I've tried many saws but frankly the only 2 IMHO that have enough "balls" to get on with the job, start with a full buried chain in the head of a queen palm without bogging are the ms440 and husky 372 .... so that's the sort of HP you need.

I find the Stihl stands up to the corrosion better than husky and seems to have more torque to keep pulling a dull chain thru a head when fully buried ... the husky seems to want to be in it's upper rpm's to do same.

I had a Shindaiwa 757 is it? It was OK on the ground, a little gutless, stood up to the corrosion excellently but was heavy, unergonomic, crappy carby that runs like chit aloft and frankly compared to the other 2 a POS but it was a start and cheaper.

I also use a 25 for thinner smaller palms like bangalows and alexs but for the bulk it's a 44.

Then there's my ms200T, which is the best a tophandled saw will ever get. 

Hope that helps you.

A big tip, where possible knock the heads off whole, cut them last, and the final cut at the stump last as well. Cut as much trunk first as you can. Advantage of having a mini loader is picking the heads up whole.


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## Diesel JD

*many options....*

I wonder if using some of that inject-a sharp carbide chain from Baileys, would do better. Its been pretty much agreed here that the Rapco and Stihl carbide chains are for their respective applications since the carbide is electrically welded to the cutter whereas the inject a sharp the carbide is impregnated into the tooth...oh and its only a little more expensive than the standard 3/8" standard chain at 39 cents a link. The bad news is that it doesn't come in .325 pitch. If you wnat to stay with the 250 get the Stihl 26RM yellow label chain or that semi chisel carlton .325 stuff from Baileys. I don't know if they have it in .325x.063 or if you'd be forced to buy a new .325X.050 bar. Another option, you could do like Ekka and switch the standard .325 chain for 3/8" low pro either the WP/Carlton 30LP or Stihl 63PM yellow label,or even Oregon 91vs. This would require swapping down to a 3/8" LP sprocket and bar, but it would give the 250 some more guts....it would probably make ita light saber. IMO the 025/250 has plenty balls on normal wood with the 18" bar and full comp chisel .325 I've never been able to make it stop cutting and I've cut much bigger trees than its intended use niche. It still runs great. Apparently this doesn't work on palms...but I have no experience with them. Listen to Ekka, he's the Palm Slayer and our resident expert on these guys.


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## Ekka

Diesel

That's good news that chain but

I run 3/8 063 guage and it doesn't look like they make it according to this

http://store.baileys-online.com/cgi...ion/co=yes/sf=category/se=301/op=eq/ml=5.html

Also, my 025 (ms250) runs 3/8 050 chain with 16" bar, screen out of the muffler and open up them gills, bloody screamer mate.

Grizzly, if you haven't changed that 25 over to 3/8 LP 050 like an ms200T runs than you are missing out. But like I said, dpends on the palm you are cutting.

Look at this pic, do you really want to struggle with a low horse power saw or just slice and dice the mofo to death?


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## lawnmaniac883

Grizzly said:


> I just purchased a MS 250 I just got and the chain is shot. I started to give me trouble after I cut down a small Washingtonian palm tree. What is the best way to go about doing this?
> Is a regular low kick back chain the best option? I don’t have the luxury of using a cherry picker.




I hope you are sharpening your chains until the teeth are toast right? Sharpen them before you replace them........


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## Grizzly

Ekka said:


> I use stihl semi chisel chain but the best ever on palms I'm unable to find anymore, may have gone out of business.
> 
> It was Sabre 2001 profile which was owned by John Deere Corp.
> 
> Rather than a point or a radius at the tip of the tooth it had a 45 degree angle, so in effect there were 2 sharp cutting points. It was a very hard chain with little stretch, equivalent to say stihl chain but I cant find it anymore, some say they went bust.
> 
> My predominant palm saw is a ms440, and yes I go thru around 1 a year, in a really busy year maybe 2 as they corrode thru to the engine etc.
> 
> I've tried many saws but frankly the only 2 IMHO that have enough "balls" to get on with the job, start with a full buried chain in the head of a queen palm without bogging are the ms440 and husky 372 .... so that's the sort of HP you need.
> 
> I find the Stihl stands up to the corrosion better than husky and seems to have more torque to keep pulling a dull chain thru a head when fully buried ... the husky seems to want to be in it's upper rpm's to do same.
> 
> I had a Shindaiwa 757 is it? It was OK on the ground, a little gutless, stood up to the corrosion excellently but was heavy, unergonomic, crappy carby that runs like chit aloft and frankly compared to the other 2 a POS but it was a start and cheaper.
> 
> I also use a 25 for thinner smaller palms like bangalows and alexs but for the bulk it's a 44.
> 
> Then there's my ms200T, which is the best a tophandled saw will ever get.
> 
> Hope that helps you.
> 
> A big tip, where possible knock the heads off whole, cut them last, and the final cut at the stump last as well. Cut as much trunk first as you can. Advantage of having a mini loader is picking the heads up whole.



Sorry for the late response, been busy. 
How far from the crown should you cut?
typically I cut all of the frawns off and cut it down in 2ft. sections in the pie. usually it I'm on concrete the frawns will break the fall.


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## Grizzly

lawnmaniac883 said:


> I hope you are sharpening your chains until the teeth are toast right? Sharpen them before you replace them........


I sharpen them about three times or untill they dont cut for crap. I go through a chain per saw every week. I've been useing Origon chains, but I want to use a Rapco or a Baileys.


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## JayD

Grizzly,
Like Ekka said welcome to the world of Palms,keep your chains sharp,as soon as they seem to cut slower retouch the chain..don't keep on cutting until there full on blunt, your chains will last longer making shore they have their edge and don't forget to rotate your bar every time you take it off,check it for burring because you will be there wondering why this sharp saw busting your but and its only a burred bar and something else that helps is a good smear of oil on the bar goes a long way as well.If you have to cut up the bulb (head) I found you have to work your saw more to keep it cutting properly we use the same chain as Ekka and it does a good job but the more powerful saw used the easier it is.
All The Best


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## l2edneck

a oily nasty one


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## Grizzly

Ekka said:


> I use stihl semi chisel chain but the best ever on palms I'm unable to find anymore, may have gone out of business.
> 
> It was Sabre 2001 profile which was owned by John Deere Corp.
> 
> Rather than a point or a radius at the tip of the tooth it had a 45 degree angle, so in effect there were 2 sharp cutting points. It was a very hard chain with little stretch, equivalent to say stihl chain but I cant find it anymore, some say they went bust.
> 
> My predominant palm saw is a ms440, and yes I go thru around 1 a year, in a really busy year maybe 2 as they corrode thru to the engine etc.
> 
> I've tried many saws but frankly the only 2 IMHO that have enough "balls" to get on with the job, start with a full buried chain in the head of a queen palm without bogging are the ms440 and husky 372 .... so that's the sort of HP you need.
> 
> I find the Stihl stands up to the corrosion better than husky and seems to have more torque to keep pulling a dull chain thru a head when fully buried ... the husky seems to want to be in it's upper rpm's to do same.
> 
> I had a Shindaiwa 757 is it? It was OK on the ground, a little gutless, stood up to the corrosion excellently but was heavy, unergonomic, crappy carby that runs like chit aloft and frankly compared to the other 2 a POS but it was a start and cheaper.
> 
> I also use a 25 for thinner smaller palms like bangalows and alexs but for the bulk it's a 44.
> 
> Then there's my ms200T, which is the best a tophandled saw will ever get.
> 
> Hope that helps you.
> 
> A big tip, where possible knock the heads off whole, cut them last, and the final cut at the stump last as well. Cut as much trunk first as you can. Advantage of having a mini loader is picking the heads up whole.




they must have stoped making the Sabre 2001 because it worked.


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## Ekka

Grizzly said:


> usually it I'm on concrete the frawns will break the fall.



I use foams, much more slick ... check out some videos.


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## M.D. Vaden

I don't think I've ever cut one palm.

Maybe one scrawny when we we were in Savannah, GA, for a short while, but nothing I remember.

So they actually dull chains?

What's in them?

Hard wood? Fibrous?


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## (WLL)

Grizzly said:


> I just purchased a MS 250 I just got and the chain is shot. I started to give me trouble after I cut down a small Washingtonian palm tree. What is the best way to go about doing this?
> Is a regular low kick back chain the best option? I don’t have the luxury of using a cherry picker.


THE BEST CHAIN IS A REALY SHARP ONE:hmm3grin2orange:


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## jomoco

*Type of chain is not the issue*

It's not so much the type of chain you use, but rather the technique of making your cuts that matter. 

Most pro's don't have a problem if they realise that palm doesn't cut like most any other wood or fiber. Palm likes to suck your bar in and resist any attempts to walk through your cut as you would normally do. Raw horse power and muscle will usually suffice to overcome this problem, but it's the palm heart at the top and the base cut at the bottom that require a special technique that most novice's are unaware of. Even with an 088 and a brand new chisel chain a base cut on an old date palm is challenging until you realise that by stabbing the bar in and walking it a little bit, and then pulling out and stabbing again a little further down the cut, is considerably easier than wrenching your saw around in the cut and tearing your anti-vibe mounts to shreads.

Date palm and other palms like filifera and robusta are very alike in that the base cuts are very difficult and particularly hard on both saw and arborist. The above mentioned stab and waggle technique has worked very well for me over the years, and I highly recommend you try it using all proper precautions that apply to any plunge cut.

Palm is highly acidic and loves to eat magnesium, clean your saws or pay the price!

jomoco


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## Grizzly

jomoco said:


> It's not so much the type of chain you use, but rather the technique of making your cuts that matter.
> 
> Most pro's don't have a problem if they realise that palm doesn't cut like most any other wood or fiber. Palm likes to suck your bar in and resist any attempts to walk through your cut as you would normally do. Raw horse power and muscle will usually suffice to overcome this problem, but it's the palm heart at the top and the base cut at the bottom that require a special technique that most novice's are unaware of. Even with an 088 and a brand new chisel chain a base cut on an old date palm is challenging until you realise that by stabbing the bar in and walking it a little bit, and then pulling out and stabbing again a little further down the cut, is considerably easier than wrenching your saw around in the cut and tearing your anti-vibe mounts to shreads.
> 
> Date palm and other palms like filifera and robusta are very alike in that the base cuts are very difficult and particularly hard on both saw and arborist. The above mentioned stab and waggle technique has worked very well for me over the years, and I highly recommend you try it using all proper precautions that apply to any plunge cut.
> 
> Palm is highly acidic and loves to eat magnesium, clean your saws or pay the price!
> 
> jomoco



No wories on cleaning my saw. I do that at the end of every work day.


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## Grizzly

Ekka said:


> I use foams, much more slick ... check out some videos.


Foams?
How would you use that while knocking down a palm?


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## Grizzly

M.D. Vaden said:


> I don't think I've ever cut one palm.
> 
> Maybe one scrawny when we we were in Savannah, GA, for a short while, but nothing I remember.
> 
> So they actually dull chains?
> 
> What's in them?
> 
> Hard wood? Fibrous?



Once you do cut one down, you'll wish you had one every day. 
At least the 30' footers. I haven't had the opertunity to touch a 100' footer.


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## Grizzly

(WLL) said:


> THE BEST CHAIN IS A REALY SHARP ONE:hmm3grin2orange:


do you use a file to sharpen you chains or a chain grinder.


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## Ekka

M.D. Vaden said:


> What's in them?



Hey guys, come on, this is the best opportunity yet...


Around here you'll get, birds, bats, rats, cockroaches by 100's, the occasional snake (whip and tree snake), I had a goanna lizard once, possums, heaps of lolly wrappers and silver foil paper that the birds build nest out of, ants (bloody thousands of them), millipedes, worms, cockchafers, bees, and dog bones (the crows nick them out of dudes yards and go up there to eat them and drop the bone in the palm head) .... hmmm, that's about all that comes to mind immediately.

How about you other guys, what did ya find in your palm?


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## trevmcrev

Ekka said:


> Hey guys, come on, this is the best opportunity yet...
> 
> 
> Around here you'll get, birds, bats, rats, cockroaches by 100's, the occasional snake (whip and tree snake), I had a goanna lizard once, possums, heaps of lolly wrappers and silver foil paper that the birds build nest out of, ants (bloody thousands of them), millipedes, worms, cockchafers, bees, and dog bones (the crows nick them out of dudes yards and go up there to eat them and drop the bone in the palm head) .... hmmm, that's about all that comes to mind immediately.
> 
> How about you other guys, what did ya find in your palm?



A dead bird totally impaled on a Canary Island Date Palm spike!


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## Ekka

trevmcrev said:


> A dead bird totally impaled on a Canary Island Date Palm spike!



Haha, maybe it was like flying along and had a heart attack and ended up shishkabob'd.


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## climbingwomdat

hay ekka, i was cutting down 6 cocos at Hamilton today and come across a couple that were as hard as Cuban royals but the centers were brown as iron bark and didn't even want to close up on them selves. I was guessing that they were at least 30-40 years old and have been getting a few of them lately. What is your opinion on them. 

P.S. 200t and 460 the only weigh to cut palms:greenchainsaw:


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## Ekka

I think the drought has made them really hard on the crust, some have been like concrete on the outside and I have been filing the spikes sharp more often than usual.

If they were more brown than white on the inside it's less moisture, same with it not compressing and clamping, dry?

What was the spray like, more so dry than the usual sludge wet?

Sometimes they even get reddish in the centre, they get really hard when they're like that, I noticed it tends to happen around the base but also on the bend of a trunk that's curved.

The ones you cut in Hamilton, were they in a dry spot like elavated retaining wall, mulched with stones/rock etc? Also it is likely in Hamilton that they were irrigated until recently.

Usually in Hamilton they are big buggers, well established, some friggin monster ones in there I clean occasionally, and some in really bad spots.

I cut 2 down at the Gap today, one was a big bugger and it was hard too, planted or grew in a gravel driveway but was hard up against the carport, that was a dry one. The one around the back in the garden was normal.


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## Grizzly

Ekka said:


> Hey guys, come on, this is the best opportunity yet...
> 
> 
> Around here you'll get, birds, bats, rats, cockroaches by 100's, the occasional snake (whip and tree snake), I had a goanna lizard once, possums, heaps of lolly wrappers and silver foil paper that the birds build nest out of, ants (bloody thousands of them), millipedes, worms, cockchafers, bees, and dog bones (the crows nick them out of dudes yards and go up there to eat them and drop the bone in the palm head) .... hmmm, that's about all that comes to mind immediately.
> 
> How about you other guys, what did ya find in your palm?



The worst thing I encountered was a palm rat, a yellow jacket nest, and the biggest rats nest that anyone could have encountered. There was more rat crap than saw dust.:jawdrop:


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## Grizzly

*how goods the carlton chain*

I just picked up some carton chains and they worked out prety good for cutting the skirt off a palm last weekend. Any coments or problems with them?


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## Ekka

My experience... OK but not as good as Stihl.

Seems to stretch more, chrome seems to come off top of tooth easier and tooth seems shorter or wears faster or something coz they dont do the same mileage.

See how you go, profiles make a difference too.


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## Grizzly

Ekka said:


> My experience... OK but not as good as Stihl.
> 
> Seems to stretch more, chrome seems to come off top of tooth easier and tooth seems shorter or wears faster or something coz they dont do the same mileage.
> 
> See how you go, profiles make a difference too.



I haven't cut down a palm yet, but I've trimmed many. I was able to still trim the green frawns with a semi dull chain. It was toward the end of the job and the check was waiting


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## ChipChomper

For palms I like the Stihl 880 we have with a 41" bar, chisel full comp chain. It has serious grunt since the 41" bar is child's play for the 880.


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## grizz55chev

ChipChomper said:


> For palms I like the Stihl 880 we have with a 41" bar, chisel full comp chain. It has serious grunt since the 41" bar is child's play for the 880.


Better get in yer time machine if you’re waiting for an answer from this post, Dec 06 was a few yrs ago.


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## ChipChomper

grizz55chev said:


> Better get in yer time machine if you’re waiting for an answer from this post, Dec 06 was a few yrs ago.



I just got a reply from you in a matter of seconds-- looks like my time machine works and now I need a patent lawyer--know any good ones by chance?


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## grizz55chev

Shoulda known, Frank.


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## Richard Magargal

lawnmaniac883 said:


> I hope you are sharpening your chains until the teeth are toast right? Sharpen them before you replace them........


[email protected]


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## Richard Magargal

lawnmaniac883 said:


> I hope you are sharpening your chains until the teeth are toast right? Sharpen them before you replace them........


[email protected]


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## Richard Magargal

lawnmaniac883 said:


> I hope you are sharpening your chains until the teeth are toast right? Sharpen them before you replace them........


[email protected]


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