# Did my first climb today!



## Plasmech (Jan 10, 2009)

(_sorry guys, I didn't die, hate to disappoint some of you_)

I did it! After all the reading, research, talking to "real-life" pro's (NOT on the internet), I geared-up this afternoon and limbed a 50 foot pine tree. Didn't have enough daylight left to block it down, and my legs were getting tired, so I played it conservative and called it a day. I had a huge smile on my face when I got down. 

I practiced with the spikes on another tree marked for death. When I took my first step, I was like OK this does NOT feel right, this is ridiculous. But after only a few more tries, I quickly got the hang of it (no naysayers, I am not saying I mastered it) enough to go up and down with a fair amount of confidence. I used pre-made non-wirecore lanyard, which sort of turned out to be trial by fire. It was a lot of work moving it up and down the tree and over nubs. It was very hard to adjust, I had to thrust toward the tree and tighten or loosen it very quickly, obviously I have more research to do there. but anyway, during the entire climb, I felt quite safe. There was definitely a healthy level of fear and respect, don't get me wrong, but I felt pretty comfortable up there. Well, let me stop there and say that I did not have steel shanked boots (partly because when I posted about them yesterday all I got were spam replies), and the top of the Klien's started to dig into my leg right where the bone is...that got old real quick but I pushed through it.

Making the limbing cuts was the least of my worry; it was a non-issue. No drama there at all, the Stihl 192 TC was great. All the branches snapped cleanly and fell straight down. The tree is not at the point where it's ready to be topped and blocked down. Unfortunately I do not even have a saw for that yet...not lugging my heavy Farm Boss up there either.

I do have some questions for the few who will reply seriously to this post however:

1. At times I didn't feel like my body was making the right angle with the tree, in other words not sure if my lanyard length was idea. Is there a general rule about this? Too close to the trunk and you can't really work, too far away it doesn't feel as safe. What's ideal?

2. What is the trick to adjusting the lanyard I described? I can't seem to find a picture of it online. It's a one-piece design...the Prusik itself is part of the lanyard, it's all the same rope. It was really hard for me to adjust.

Thanks for any answers!

Really felt good man, sense of achomplishment for sure.


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## Nailsbeats (Jan 10, 2009)

The distance from your waist to the tree should be the same as the distance from you elbow to your fist. Put your elbow at your waist, your fist against the tree and adjust the flipline as needed. Also, you must maintain a 30 degree angle between your hooks (climbers) and the tree. While climbing lock one knee out all the time at that angle, or both when standing. For long stands alternate locking knees.


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## squad143 (Jan 11, 2009)

Glad to see you were able to get away from this site to try climbing.  -Just ribbing ya.

It's hard to tell (without pictures) on where your problems may be with adjusting your lanyard. Did you make it yourself or buy it that way? Maybe you have too many wraps on the prussick?

Cut your nubs flush with the trunk and they won't be a problem.

I have to ask why are you starting a removal that you don't have the equipment to finish?

Get yourself a pair of aluminum pads or you'll have to put up with the spurs digging into your legs.

Take a climbing/rigging course. Go back to the spar you left and practice climbing it. Stay low and go slow. Practice circling the trunk and moving up and down until your more comfortable with your equipment. Hopefully your fear will keep you safe.

Have fun.:greenchainsaw:


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## Plasmech (Jan 11, 2009)

squad143 said:


> Glad to see you were able to get away from this site to try climbing.  -Just ribbing ya.
> 
> It's hard to tell (without pictures) on where your problems may be with adjusting your lanyard. Did you make it yourself or buy it that way? Maybe you have too many wraps on the prussick?
> 
> ...



Thanks for the constructive post man! Nice to get one of those. I'll tell you what, I learned a LOT on that first climb. Every foot higher I got I learned something. I have to be careful not to become over-confident now, that would be very bad. As far as not having the saw to block down...I'm in no rush. It's a learning experience, a non-paying job at my uncle's house. But yes, it would be nice to have a good block-down saw.

Oh yea, I left the nubs on there so if I gaffed-out, I'd only slide down so far. I AM a noob remember


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## ropensaddle (Jan 11, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> Nubs are good!



Ehhhhhhh show us pics please nubs are not good if they are impaled
in yer :censored: Congrats playsmec but take your time and learn each
aspect before getting hurt.


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## Norwayclimber (Jan 11, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> Nubs are good!




Not when your balls stop against one on the way down :jawdrop: (if you hypothetically should gaff out)

Good work elsewise. Keep it slow and safe, and block it down when you're ready for it.


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## tomtrees58 (Jan 11, 2009)

Norway Climber said:


> Not when your balls stop against one on the way down :jaw drop: (if you hypothetically should gaff out)
> 
> he he tom trees


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## Plasmech (Jan 11, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> Nubs are good!



Yes they are. As far as ripping my balls out on the tree, I actually had the foresight to purchase an athletic cup at Wal Mart the day before just for that reason. In tree work you just can't have enough protection, I know that much!


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## TDunk (Jan 11, 2009)

I try to leave nubs on the opposite side that i'm climbing on just incase. Then you don't fall far and your [email protected] won't hate you, in most cases.


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## ropensaddle (Jan 11, 2009)

TDunk said:


> I try to leave nubs on the opposite side that i'm climbing on just incase. Then you don't fall far and your [email protected] won't hate you, in most cases.



The only time I have not stopped myself without stubs is on a pole because I knew better than to grab so, I just rode it down. It did not even hurt I just laid back kept my spurs on the pole and burned down letting friction slow my decent. If I had grabbed like you will on a tree I would have had some bad splinters.


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## squad143 (Jan 11, 2009)

Plasmech, here is the system I use;





Another shot without the wire core flipline.





I use a 3/8" (10mm) Bee-Line Eye&eye prussik Cord (from Sherrill) tied in a Swabish knot (loop) onto my "climbing" line that is tended by a micro pully. I've attached mine with a loop of spectra, but a dog's leash snap works too. I like the swabish because it only loads one way.

Along with my wirecore, this becomes my secondary tie-in. There are alot of advantages using a climbing line as a flipline. Some are, but not limited to;
As the working end gets worn, you cut off the worn end & have a fresh line.
You can set this higher in the tree and work off a higher tie in point (sometimes even hanging off it to give your "sore feet' a bit of a rest).
You can descend on this if you need to.
You can haul up or lower equipment/rope on the standing end.
With this set-up I can adjust (lengthen or shorten) with one hand. (Even with a load [me] on the line).

-Just what I could of think of at the moment.

With the wirecore you will have to take some of the weight off the micro-cender to adjust it.


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## squad143 (Jan 11, 2009)

Here are a couple of shots of it in use;




And




Kinda hard to tell but I'm using a lime green climbing line.
If (on a nasty cut) you are worried about gaffing out, you can always put a double wrap around the tree with your climbing line. -not always possible to do that with the limited length of the wirecore.


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## Plasmech (Jan 11, 2009)

squad143 said:


> Here are a couple of shots of it in use;
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Cool pics man. OK here's a question...when you are blocking down, what it your climbing line attached to? I mean obviously it can't be attached above you because that section is going to bomb out. So where do you put your cinch with biner?

Oh yea, what saw are you using in that pic? Thanks.


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## squad143 (Jan 11, 2009)

Guess I left a few stubs on this one;




If you look closely you can see my secondary tie in (climbing/flip line) just above my head. The rope hanging off my rear is 5/8 Stable Braid that we were using to pull the top.

Yes you can get the lines over the stubs, just takes more work. The branch collars were fairly large and would have required more cutting to make them flush. I'll occasionally leave a stub to help support a line (in case of slip) however, as been mentioned, they can possibly bite you. Plus snag branches/lines later while your lowering/bombing limbs if you leave the stubs too long.


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## squad143 (Jan 11, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> Cool pics man. OK here's a question...when you are blocking down, what it your climbing line attached to? I mean obviously it can't be attached above you because that section is going to bomb out. So where do you put your cinch with biner?
> 
> Oh yea, what saw are you using in that pic? Thanks.



My flipline(orange) and climbing line(lime green) are above my sling & pulley but below my notch and eventually, backcut. This is where you want your lines when you drop the top, that way the pulley does not swing down and cut your lines.

I'll try and find a different pic. of a different method for tie in while making the notch.

The saw in the picture is a 046 magnum with a 24" bar. The maple grew into four stems (above my head) and since it was adjacent to his septic tank and house, everything had to be rigged down. This piece was big and only about 15' (at cut) above the ground so it really put a strain in the lowering line.


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## SLlandscape (Jan 11, 2009)

squad143 said:


> Another shot without the wire core flipline.



Squad, I have a question if you don't mind. Instead of using the micro pulley as a slack tender, could you just use the biner? Or does it cause to much friction? My thinking is that the biner will serve the same purpose as the pulley, and would save money by not having to purchase the pulley latch or loop.


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## Plasmech (Jan 11, 2009)

squad143 said:


> My flipline(orange) and climbing line(lime green) are above my sling & pulley but below my notch and eventually, backcut. This is where you want your lines when you drop the top, that way the pulley does not swing down and cut your lines.
> 
> I'll try and find a different pic. of a different method for tie in while making the notch.
> 
> The saw in the picture is a 046 magnum with a 24" bar. The maple grew into four stems (above my head) and since it was adjacent to his septic tank and house, everything had to be rigged down. This piece was big and only about 15' (at cut) above the ground so it really put a strain in the lowering line.



Currently I don't have the arm strength to carry 460 up in a tree...need to work on that. I'm considering a 260 Pro for smaller trees, what do you think about that saw?


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## (WLL) (Jan 11, 2009)

squad143 said:


> Here are a couple of shots of it in use;
> 
> 
> 
> ...


+1 squad, good post with good pics. do you ever use your center loop?


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## squad143 (Jan 11, 2009)

Not the best picture but;




I left my climbing line as a high anchor point while I wraped the sling around the trunk (made it easier for working arond the tree). It is kinda difficult to see. The green line is my sling and the oange is my wirecore.

Here is a hemlock chunk ready to be dropped, just making the back cut. You can make out the climbing line and the wirecore flipline above the sling and below the cut.





Another picture showing the system with the port-a-wrap in place. The groundsman who tends the rope on the port-a-wrap was taking the pic. Once again, another tree and another septic tank (not to mention buildings) in the vacinity.


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## squad143 (Jan 11, 2009)

SLlandscape said:


> Squad, I have a question if you don't mind. Instead of using the micro pulley as a slack tender, could you just use the biner? Or does it cause to much friction? Thanks



I imagine that you could, but there would be some friction, not to mention that it may rub against the eye of the bee-line, causing even more friction. I have had (on a few occasions) to haul myself up using just this 2:1 advantage and the least amount of friction, the better. Besides, a micro pulley is not that much.


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## Nailsbeats (Jan 11, 2009)

Nice pics Squad, looking good!


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## SLlandscape (Jan 11, 2009)

squad143 said:


> I imagine that you could, but there would be some friction, not to mention that it may rub against the eye of the bee-line, causing even more friction. I have had (on a few occasions) to haul myself up using just this 2:1 advantage and the least amount of friction, the better. Besides, a micro pulley is not that much.



I thought it would work. Just wasn't sure as to how well.
Thank you.


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## squad143 (Jan 11, 2009)

(WLL) said:


> +1 squad, good post with good pics. do you ever use your center loop?



Yes, quite often. Depending on how I'm positioned in the tree, I'll sometimes attach the end of my wirecore or climbing line to it.

I also always carry a figure 8 descender with me and attach it to the center ring when rappelling down from the tree.


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## squad143 (Jan 11, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> Currently I don't have the arm strength to carry 460 up in a tree...need to work on that. I'm considering a 260 Pro for smaller trees, what do you think about that saw?



I have an 026 in my arsenal as well. Great saw. I use my ms200 for as long as possible and then switch to the 026. When that won't cut it (no pun intended) I'll move on to the 046. Yes they are a bit heavy for a tree saw. My groundsman makes sure it is nice and warm before he sends it up (on my climbing line (nice to have it hanging there - even for fill ups).

Only had the 088 up once.


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## squad143 (Jan 11, 2009)

Nailsbeats said:


> Nice pics Squad, looking good!



Thanks.


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## treemandan (Jan 11, 2009)

Is it improper to tie in under the pulley as opposed to above ? No matter how hard I try I can't put my ropes above. Am I going to die?


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## (WLL) (Jan 11, 2009)

squad143 said:


> Yes, quite often. Depending on how I'm positioned in the tree, I'll sometimes attach the end of my wirecore or climbing line to it.
> 
> I also always carry a figure 8 descender with me and attach it to the center ring when rappelling down from the tree.


i think you have a good set-up with many options.


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## (WLL) (Jan 11, 2009)

treemandan said:


> Is it improper to tie in under the pulley as opposed to above ? No matter how hard I try I can't put my ropes above. Am I going to die?


imo its improper and just should not be done. dan you could die, stop being skeert and tie above :deadhorse:


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## squad143 (Jan 11, 2009)

treemandan said:


> Is it improper to tie in under the pulley as opposed to above ? No matter how hard I try I can't put my ropes above. Am I going to die?



We all die eventually, just a matter of how and when. 
Hopefully its when were very old and in our sleep.


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## (WLL) (Jan 11, 2009)

the *treeslayer* has arived!!


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## (WLL) (Jan 11, 2009)

(WLL) said:


> the *treeslayer* has arived!!


and he's gone, Lol


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## ropensaddle (Jan 11, 2009)

squad143 said:


> We all die eventually, just a matter of how and when.
> Hopefully its when were very old and in our sleep.



Yeah squad I see you don't take impossible pieces with the big stuff either. I don't like chunks fifteen foot and 36" just too much weight for questionable groundies they either hold too tight and not let it run or let it run too much to stop. It stinks when you can't be up there and on the ground in the same moment. I never place my climbline under either


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## treemandan (Jan 11, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> Yeah squad I see you don't take impossible pieces with the big stuff either. I don't like chunks fifteen foot and 36" just too much weight for questionable groundies they either hold too tight and not let it run or let it run too much to stop. It stinks when you can't be up there and on the ground in the same moment. I never place my climbline under either



I do watch my weight as well as my groundies, I know when its about to happen, sometimes i let it. 
I do like the extra room you get or rather lack of room if you know what I mean. You shorten the drop and I know my lines are safe tucked up under there. Keep the pulley straight and there is a nice spot to tuck them, its not like they are in harms way. 
I don't know the protocol on this this, I thought it was up to personal preference. I think the only real reason to put the lines above is so they don't get hurt by the rigging. Somebody hit me with an ansi standard.
Oh and 12 feet is where I get skeptical on that chit but with the right crew it can be done softly.
Mainly its cause flopping tops can be so unpredictable. Given all the circumstance involved I have to know I am going to be close to the same spot I was in after it drops.


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## ropensaddle (Jan 11, 2009)

treemandan said:


> I do watch my weight as well as my groundies, I know when its about to happen, sometimes i let it.
> I do like the extra room you get or rather lack of room if you know what I mean. You shorten the drop and I know my lines are safe tucked up under there. Keep the pulley straight and there is a nice spot to tuck them, its not like they are in harms way.
> I don't know the protocol on this this, I thought it was up to personal preference. I think the only real reason to put the lines above is so they don't get hurt by the rigging. Somebody hit me with an ansi standard.
> Oh and 12 feet is where I get skeptical on that chit but with the right crew it can be done softly.
> Mainly its cause flopping tops can be so unpredictable. Given all the circumstance involved I have to know I am going to be close to the same spot I was in after it drops.



Well dan I can look it up for you in the regs but the reason I don't go under is my ropes must last and last and also I like to remain mobile after the set up is loaded. It is your call If I were going under I would use a webbing sling with a d ring incorporated into it. That way the d would be on my side of the action and allow mobility should something go amiss.


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## RedlineIt (Jan 12, 2009)

Plasmech,



> 1. At times I didn't feel like my body was making the right angle with the tree, in other words not sure if my lanyard length was idea. Is there a general rule about this? Too close to the trunk and you can't really work, too far away it doesn't feel as safe. What's ideal?



I already told you this in one of your many other pleading threads. Nailsbeat pretty much repeats it for you right off the top of this thread, but I'm not going to call you a troll for that, there are other more common usage phrases that suit, like idiot.




> 2. What is the trick to adjusting the lanyard I described? I can't seem to find a picture of it online. It's a one-piece design...the Prusik itself is part of the lanyard, it's all the same rope. It was really hard for me to adjust.



I know this lanyard. There is no "trick" to adjusting it, the "trick" is selling outdated stock like this to idiots, usually as part of a cheap kit.



RedlineIt


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## masiman (Jan 12, 2009)

RedlineIt said:


> Plasmech,
> ...
> I know this lanyard. There is no "trick" to adjusting it, the "trick" is selling outdated stock like this to idiots, usually as part of a cheap kit.
> 
> RedlineIt



Plasmech,

Pay to play my friend, pay to play.


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## masiman (Jan 12, 2009)

squad143 said:


> I imagine that you could, but there would be some friction, not to mention that it may rub against the eye of the bee-line, causing even more friction. I have had (on a few occasions) to haul myself up using just this 2:1 advantage and the least amount of friction, the better. Besides, a micro pulley is not that much.



Another reason I can think of to not use a biner is that the opening can be large enough that there could be a chance of the hitch passing part or all the way through the biner and getting caught up. It would be really bad to be looking at your self tending become a self belay, lol (visions of Wile E. Coyote). If you needed to do it I'd opt for a locking biner too (preferably not a screw lock). If you had a non-locking, I'd prefer a key-lock (where the latch does not have that hook) as opposed to the hook kind of arm engagement. I hate when my ropes get snagged on that.

Happy 400 to me.


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## (WLL) (Jan 12, 2009)

squad143 said:


> Plasmech, here is the system I use;
> 
> 
> 
> ...


im using the same idea just a lil more compact


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## ropensaddle (Jan 12, 2009)

(WLL) said:


> im using the same idea just a lil more compact



I am using a larger version :monkey:


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## treemandan (Jan 12, 2009)

(WLL) said:


> im using the same idea just a lil more compact



Real sweet, looks real good. Crap, I don't have any eye spliced lines or I would do it.


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## treemandan (Jan 12, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> I am using a larger version :monkey:


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## squad143 (Jan 12, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> I am using a larger version :monkey:



LOL -Good one Rope.

WLL, I like your setup.

Masiman, No chance for the rope opening these biners, they are 3-way (with a ball) Have a hard enough time opening them when I want to.


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## ropensaddle (Jan 12, 2009)

squad143 said:


> LOL -Good one Rope.
> 
> WLL, I like your setup.
> 
> Masiman, No chance for the rope opening these biners, they are 3-way (with a ball) Have a hard enough time opening them when I want to.



Ehhhhhhhhh us old timer got drag out the granny stick ya know I still get
my share on the spar though


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## squad143 (Jan 12, 2009)

SLlandscape said:


> Instead of using the micro pulley as a slack tender, could you just use the biner?QUOTE]
> 
> Masiman brings up a good point about the possibility of the hitch getting caught in the biner.
> 
> The pulley acts like a pmp (prussik minding pulley) and actually releases the hitch as you pull on the line, something that just the biner would not do. Sorry I did not mention that in the earlier post.


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## Plasmech (Jan 12, 2009)

(WLL) said:


> im using the same idea just a lil more compact



Looks cool. So basically if you are climbing a tree that you can't "top rope" as we call it in rock climbing, you bring the climbing rope up with you and "tighten it in" when necessary? Does this systel protect during a gaff-out?


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## (WLL) (Jan 12, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> Looks cool. So basically if you are climbing a tree that you can't "top rope" as we call it in rock climbing, you bring the climbing rope up with you and "tighten it in" when necessary? Does this systel protect during a gaff-out?


stop worrying about gaffout.this set-up aint no safer than traditional in a gaff-out.do you remember what i told you to do during a gaff-out, well its true! bring your climbing line with you every climb you do!! O, i almost forgot. if i cant top rope i rely on my lanyard when im ready to cut ill use my tip for a 2nd attachment. this set-up should prevent getting sucked in on a peel but may not be a trusty method of keeping a splitting trunk in its place.


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## Plasmech (Jan 12, 2009)

(WLL) said:


> stop worrying about gaffout.this set-up aint no safer than traditional in a gaff-out.do you remember what i told you to do during a gaff-out, well its true! bring your climbing line with you every climb you do!! O, i almost forgot. if i cant top rope i rely on my lanyard when im ready to cut ill use my tip for a 2nd attachment. this set-up should prevent getting sucked in on a peel but may not be a trusty method of keeping a splitting trunk in its place.



Gotcha. The thing that confuses me is that in your pics, your climbing rope is set up as a secondary lanyard. Just not sure how this could be considered a T.I.P.? I'm just confused...


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## (WLL) (Jan 12, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> Gotcha. The thing that confuses me is that in your pics, your climbing rope is set up as a secondary lanyard. Just not sure how this could be considered a T.I.P.? I'm just confused...


my lanyard are the same set-ups. the difference is placement, the lanyard is on my side d's and my tip is on my bridge or center ring. i have upgraded my old system with A.R.T.


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## (WLL) (Jan 12, 2009)

lanyard


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## masiman (Jan 12, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> Gotcha. The thing that confuses me is that in your pics, your climbing rope is set up as a secondary lanyard. Just not sure how this could be considered a T.I.P.? I'm just confused...



It all depends on what the climbing line is attached to. If it is around the spar at or near waist level then yes it would be a lanyard. If that line were attached somewhere above you (friction saver, crotch, false crotch, etc.), then it would be a TIP, much like top roping (except that it's not a top belay). It just depends on what is attached to in relation to you. If you get close enough to the crotch it kind of becomes a lanyard again. That's when it becomes nice to have a second method of tying in so that you can start to move freely about the canopy. Arborist climbing line, get you one. Any one of the site sponsors would be glad to help you out. Spend about $100 for at least a 120'. Don't worry about a spliced eye. Your choice on 7/16" vs 1/2". Get Arborplex for cheap if you are not sure your gonna do this much, otherwise step up and get the $100+ ropes. Get you a rope bag too. "Climbings the source man....swear to gosh".


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