# Belt vs Gear Driven Stump Grinder



## Themadd1 (Feb 13, 2006)

Hello all, I am new to this forum and thought I might be able to get some thoughts on what type of grinder. Currently, the choice is between a Vermeer SC352 and Rayco 1631. I know there are some differences in the models, especially price. The questions come in here:

How much are the teeth per grinder?
Vemeer?
Rayco?

How often do teeth need to be replaced?
Vermeer?
Rayco?

Is there a big yearly cost difference between belt drive and gear drive?
Belt costs?
Gear costs?

Do you find the pivoting steering axle useful? 
Does it affect the grinding capabilities?

Which one do you own?

Would you recommend it to me?


Thanks,

Themadd1


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## TipTop (Feb 13, 2006)

i have a Carlton 4400 self-propelled belt driven just have to keep belts clean of chips blow out at the end of day all set to go the next day what part of ma


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## Dadatwins (Feb 13, 2006)

Themadd1 said:


> Hello all, I am new to this forum and thought I might be able to get some thoughts on what type of grinder. Currently, the choice is between a Vermeer SC352 and Rayco 1631. I know there are some differences in the models, especially price. The questions come in here:
> 
> How much are the teeth per grinder?
> Vemeer?
> Rayco?



Teeth are different, Rayco is a one piece tooth, Vermeer a tooth and pocket system, both cost about the same at initial setup, but the entire rayco tooth must be changed when dull, the vermeer just changes the tooth and reuse the pocket. This would make the vermeer teeth a cheaper option, but see below.....


> How often do teeth need to be replaced?
> Vermeer?
> Rayco?


I find the rayco teeth to last longer and are definitely more durable, if you hit any kind of metal or hard stone the vermeer teeth will break off at the collar, the rayco teeth will not. As for the carbide tips, they are both about the same and I would say if used side by side in the exact same cutting environment cutting only wood, they would both last the same time. If you add retipping the teeth or sharpening to the equation that will lower the cost of both options. 


> Is there a big yearly cost difference between belt drive and gear drive?
> 
> Belt costs?
> Gear costs?


belts are cheaper than gears, but gears last longer and do not slip or need periodic adjustment, of course, belts are easier and cheaper to repair than gear boxes. 


> Do you find the pivoting steering axle useful?
> Does it affect the grinding capabilities?


Yes, it helps with the stability of the machine, keeping all the wheels on the ground.


> Which one do you own?
> 
> Would you recommend it to me?


I have a rayco 1625a with a 25hp kohler, same chassis as the 1631, as for recomending it I am not sure, I have had some trouble with the electric clutch, changed twice, and cutter wheel bearing, changed twice also. At 250 hours I consider this excessive. Machine makes money and without these problems I am happy with it. I also run a Carlton 2700 and find it to be a OK machine, just VERY heavy and not as nimble as the rayco. I have demoed the vermeer and used vermeer products and find them to be well made and reliable, I still question the hillside stability of the vermeer vs the rayco. I use my machine in a lot of tight yards and gates and hardly ever need the dual wheels for stability, the vermeer users I have spoken with say the duals are a must always. As for the cost difference, at this time rayco, carlton and even bandit, which I have not used, all offer a similiar machine in the 27 HP range at about 13k - 16k range, the next step up on these brand kicks up to the 50hp and 35k range which is a big jump. vermeer has a good market share with the model 352 35 hp diesel in the 20k-25k range. There are a few users on the site who have the 352 and are happy with them. 

Hope this helps, good luck and welcome.


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## dogdad (Feb 13, 2006)

Themadd1 ... I have a Vermeer 352 . Just bought it about 7 weeks ago and have been happy with it. I considered the Rayco and carlton. My reasons for the 352 are: I wanted diesel,, I wanted less belts to full with, and it was alot cheaper than the other brands with diesels. I talkes to a rayco person AT the FACTORY and asked why they didn't offer gear driven wheels,, his reply: Vermeer has a good patent on it .Thatells me alot when the competition says positive things . As far as tipping , Yes it could be a little tippy on really sloped terrain, but that hasn't hampered me at all. Again the Rayco person says that they will be comming out with a machine that will COMPETE with the 352 and guess what ? It will also have a engine that moves with the cutter wheel as the 352 does,, not at all like the other rayco models. As far as the 252,,,wouldn't have it. It probably has some uses but when you get to the big stumps,,,owners say it takes to long. I think alot of people buy the 252 BECAUSE the price and do not look at the whole picture . I did a stump the other day that took me 2 1/2 hours,,,earned $500. I really don't think the 252 would have been up to the job. GET a DIESEL powered Grinder. Just my opinion.


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## TreeJunkie (Feb 13, 2006)

In my area 500.00 stumps are few and far between therefore the larger machine can't be justified. In the residential market here a machine in the 27 hp range will do just fine. Different areas of the country and different types of work require different equipment.

I chose the 252 b/c of the great dealer support and cust serv. That and the complete lack of it from the rayco dealer.....


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## TreeJunkie (Feb 13, 2006)

one other thing that i don't mind about having a gas engine on the grinder is the replacement cost.

In case you do have major engine trouble you mayl like fact that you can buy a new kohler for about a grand unlike the diesels which will run at least 3k.


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## Freakingstang (Feb 14, 2006)

Rayco also offers the tooth and pockets. The one piece are called the supertooth and are superior to the tooth and pockets. The tooth and pockets are cheaper, and a pain to set the depth settings correctly. The supertooth one piece tooth is bolt on, no adjustment needed/required. Most of the stumpers out there will interchange the teeth. Note: Most will interchange, not all. All of the teeth that Rayco sells, supertooth and tooth and pocket are carbide tipped. 


I do not own any of them, but used to work in the factory as a machine builder and then in major repair. The electronic clutches on the 1625's have been a problem since I remember, although it has been 4 years since i worked there.

The RG50 is a much better, more durable machine and features a hydraulic drive cutter wheel vs a belt or gear. it is also available in 4wd. It does, cost more than the 1625.

Steve


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## Themadd1 (Feb 14, 2006)

*What about pricing..?*

So after the thoughts on the machinery. I am looking at between $150-$350 per tree. Does this sound about right?


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## stumpy66 (Feb 14, 2006)

you have a very simple approach, if it were that simple we would be laughing....check the other threads...pricing is something us stumpers do our heads in about.....i would take the vermeer, but it need the right money on the jobs to pay for it and get a living......market forces dictates the price, but dont be afraid to up the price........stump removal should not be cheap......(or too expensive....you get the drift)


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## ROLLACOSTA (Feb 14, 2006)

I run a 352 and love it,I ran a 252 and loved that,Vermeer make great machines and offer great even fantastic after service,I wanted deisel at a sensible price, imo the 352 was my only realistic option price wise..

As for teeth rayco teeth are the best but way to expensive,vermeer teeth are very satisfactory,in 6 years of grinding iv'e only ever had 2 or 3 teeth break and I think that was because I over torqued them..

As for belts v gears no idea yet give me a few hundred hours..


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## ROLLACOSTA (Feb 14, 2006)

Themadd1 said:


> So after the thoughts on the machinery. I am looking at between $150-$350 per tree. Does this sound about right?



No idea ''NO'' stump is ever the same, and the market varies from town to town,season by season and year to year!!

You need to work out an hourly rate that your comfortable with and your community/area will pay,thats the secret to happy stump grinding


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## Dadatwins (Feb 14, 2006)

ROLLACOSTA said:


> As for teeth rayco teeth are the best but way to expensive


No option on that side of the 'pond' for retipping Rolla? I thought the rayco teeth were way over priced also but sending them out for retipping cuts the cost almost in half. If I could learn to weld I could probably cut the cost down more.


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## Dadatwins (Feb 14, 2006)

Themadd1 said:


> So after the thoughts on the machinery. I am looking at between $150-$350 per tree. Does this sound about right?



Please do not set a flat rate for stumps like this, you will regret it. There are hundreds of threads on this site about pricing and as many different options of how to do the job. Best advice for pricing is if you get so many calls that you can't keep up, you price to low, and if you are calling the phone company to check if your phone number still works, you price to high. Good luck.


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## Themadd1 (Feb 17, 2006)

The pricing I listed on the site was just a rough idea. Maybe it would help to know the high and low that people have charged.. I am thinking that I will do a minimum price. I am just wondering is I could get an average. If anyone would be interested in listing an average price for 2005. I keep my records on Excel as a spreadsheet so I can get average rates for the year. It makes my research a little easier to decide if this is going to be a good money maker in the years to come. Also, how long do people depreciate their stump grinders? I am thinking that a five year period should be plenty. This is for my tax purposes and


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