# R i p



## Gologit (Jun 4, 2012)

Air tanker crash kills 2 at Utah wildfire site - Yahoo! News


----------



## Joe46 (Jun 4, 2012)

Sad news indeed


----------



## KYLogger (Jun 4, 2012)

Our thoughts and prayers are with their families and loved ones.


----------



## KenJax Tree (Jun 4, 2012)

What a shame. Didn't another one have to make an emergency landing about the same time that one crashed?


----------



## madhatte (Jun 4, 2012)

Gonna be a rough couple of years for the fire aviation community after this one. Condolences to family and friends of the fallen.


----------



## Gologit (Jun 4, 2012)

KenJax Tree said:


> What a shame. Didn't another one have to make an emergency landing about the same time that one crashed?



Yup...one main gear wouldn't come down. They did a good job setting it down and nobody got hurt.


----------



## 2dogs (Jun 7, 2012)

Another air tanker crash of an airplane that should be in a museum. The P2s and S 2s will keep on crashing as the fleet ages. C130s and 747s, when allowed, will too. The United States needs NEW air tankers and should not be relying on ancient military surplus aircraft. We should have SEATs and large fixed wing air tankers in production. Rant off.


----------



## Metals406 (Jun 7, 2012)

Yup, these tankers are too blooming old. . . On the news, they said during one pre-flight inspection, they found a 2' long crack in a wing.


----------



## Gologit (Jun 7, 2012)

2dogs said:


> Another air tanker crash of an airplane that should be in a museum. The P2s and S 2s will keep on crashing as the fleet ages. C130s and 747s, when allowed, will too. The United States needs NEW air tankers and should not be relying on ancient military surplus aircraft. We should have SEATs and large fixed wing air tankers in production. Rant off.



I'd like to see more SEATS. There's definitely a niche for them. The AT-802F does a good job, especially in tight spots...steep canyons and such. Even with a full load they'll turn a lot sharper than the big guys. You can slow them down if you need to on a drop but their ferry speed is still high enough to load and return and stay efficient.

Funny thing about SEATS. Years ago, when the FS in their wisdom decided that single engine tankers were outdated there were a lot of TBMs sitting around moldering away. I think they'd still do a fine job...if you could pry enough money out of the FS to pay the gas bill.

The lack of money from the governmental agencies is one of the reasons that the airtanker fleet fell behind the curve on aircraft age and condition. The operators had to fly as economically as they could and that meant using surplus aircraft that weren't really designed for the kind of beating that tankers take. And the beating can be severe.

There were several outfits that took excellent care of their aircraft...and there were a couple that didn't. A couple of the more responsible companies chose to just get out of the game entirely. There were also some who should have gotten out but didn't.

Most of the older tankers now are older than the pilots flying them.


----------



## slowp (Jun 7, 2012)

Metals406 said:


> Yup, these tankers are too blooming old. . . On the news, they said during one pre-flight inspection, they found a 2' long crack in a wing.



An air tanker story.

I worked as a airtanker parker at the Winslow airport. That means I gave the hand signals to get them parked into the right place to refill.

The story was that the year before, one of the big ones hit the terminal building with a wing. A few bricks were knocked out of the building. The company flew the plane to Denver to check it out. The wing fell off after it landed...

The FS doesn't take action until after a crisis or a major embarassment.


----------



## Dalmatian90 (Jun 8, 2012)

This is a good video of the 55 year old aircraft that crash landed the same day the 57 year old aircraft crashed and killed the pilot & co-pilot.

Rough landing for air tanker

The air tanker was supposed to land at another location when it's gear failed, and since they had 90 minutes of fuel to burn off and were 90 minutes away from their home base in Minden, NV they flew home.

It's a small airport without it's own crash trucks. The Skycrane is owned by another contractor. My understanding is the plan was if the P2V had caught fire on landing, the helicopter was going to drop a load of foam on it to buy time while the municipal firefighters got setup.


----------



## Gologit (Jun 8, 2012)

Dalmatian90 said:


> This is a good video of the 55 year old aircraft that crash landed the same day the 57 year old aircraft crashed and killed the pilot & co-pilot.
> 
> Rough landing for air tanker
> 
> ...



I thought it was an _excellent_ landing all things considered. The term "crash landing" is a leftover from dime novels and bad movies...it hardly applies in this case.


----------



## floyd (Jun 8, 2012)

ANY landing one walks away from is a good landing.


----------



## 2dogs (Jun 11, 2012)

Scroll down untill you see the links on the right side of the page. Look for the word "immoral". Maybe best to down a shot before you read.

USFS adds a DC-10 and two more CV-580s to the temporary list of air tankers


----------



## madhatte (Jun 11, 2012)

ARRGHHH

Yet the counties STILL permit building out in the WUI, and people still expect fire protection. What, there's supposed to be a Type 2 crew standing by for every neighborhood?


----------



## Gologit (Jun 11, 2012)

2dogs said:


> Scroll down untill you see the links on the right side of the page. Look for the word "immoral". Maybe best to down a shot before you read.
> 
> USFS adds a DC-10 and two more CV-580s to the temporary list of air tankers



Wow. The scary part is that some of these people have a say in formulating policy.


----------



## 2dogs (Jun 11, 2012)

Sorry hatte, I hope you can sleep tonight.


----------



## Gologit (Jun 11, 2012)

2dogs said:


> Scroll down untill you see the links on the right side of the page. Look for the word "immoral". Maybe best to down a shot before you read.
> 
> USFS adds a DC-10 and two more CV-580s to the temporary list of air tankers



Hey, no problem. We'll just pass the word to the lead plane and the initial attack aircraft NOT to drop any retardant anywhere near the residence or property of the people who consider aerial firefighting to be immoral.

I'm sure there are plenty of other folks who would like to see the big red curtain headed down their way. No problem at all.


----------



## madhatte (Jun 12, 2012)

2dogs said:


> Sorry hatte, I hope you can sleep tonight.



Oh, I'll sleep alright. I'll collect my haz pay alright, too. I just won't respect too much the hypocrites who want it both ways. I go where Dispatch tells me to.


----------



## slowp (Jun 12, 2012)

Gologit said:


> Wow. The scary part is that some of these people have a say in formulating policy.



Unless things have changed, there are very few actual FS employees that are FSEEE members. I saw a survey done a few years ago, and very few of the members were FS employees. It is another environmental organization that sues the FS once in a while. They have done a couple of good things--applied pressure to get Al Gore's plan to have employees bid on their jobs stopped. That was taking up more working time, money and worrying folks with constant "reorganization" and new plans. It continued on into the Bush years, but got stopped. 

They find fault with everything. I used to call their magazine The Inner Whine. It was the Inner Voice.

I wonder if I can dig up the statistics again? Probably not.


----------



## 2dogs (Jun 14, 2012)

I hope this helps. USDA Forest Service Announces Award Of Large Air Tanker Agreements; Federal Partners To Have New Resources To Suppress Wildfires | USDA Newsroom

BTW tanker 11's memorial was tonight. http://www.wlfalwaysremember.org/incident-lists/503-todd-tompkins-ron-chambliss.html


----------



## stikine (Jun 15, 2012)

slowp said:


> Unless things have changed, there are very few actual FS employees that are FSEEE members. I saw a survey done a few years ago, and very few of the members were FS employees. It is another environmental organization that sues the FS once in a while.



Groan...this organization probably pisses me off more than all the "other groups" combined...can't stand to read any of the drivel spewed in the "inner voice". I'll leave it at that........


----------



## RandyMac (Jun 23, 2012)

Debate over fire retardant toxicity rages in West - US news - Environment - msnbc.com


----------



## Gologit (Jun 23, 2012)

RandyMac said:


> Debate over fire retardant toxicity rages in West - US news - Environment - msnbc.com



If the protester's home was in danger of burning would they still be against air drops?


----------



## slowp (Jun 23, 2012)

Gologit said:


> If the protester's home was in danger of burning would they still be against air drops?



Moot point. Most of them live in the cities.


----------



## Gologit (Jun 23, 2012)

slowp said:


> Moot point. Most of them live in the cities.



Figures. :bang:


----------



## 2dogs (Jul 2, 2012)

Another air tanker went down testerday. A MAFFS C-130 "went down" in South Dakota but it sounds as if some of the crew of 6 survived. A very sad day.

http://wildfiretoday.com/

This is now being called a crash. The lead plane experienced a severe downdraft and that is now being investigated. 2 survivors out of a crew of 6.


----------



## Dalmatian90 (Jul 4, 2012)

From the same unit who lost the C-130 in South Dakota; I don't know if the crew or plane lost are actually in the video. The big "7" is so the guys on the ground can call Tanker-7, so it might get painted on different actual planes on each deployment.

<iframe width="640" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/R9RExWsD-EM?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


----------



## Gologit (Jul 4, 2012)

*Rip*

This list is far from complete but it's the most accurate I can find. I knew several of these guys.





AAP Memorial Fund | The Associated Aerial Firefighters (AAF)


----------



## 2dogs (Jul 6, 2012)

The South Canyon fire (Storm King Mtn) was 18 years ago today. The USFS lost 14 good people that day. Please take a moment to reflect on their deaths.


----------



## Gologit (Jul 6, 2012)

2dogs said:


> The South Canyon fire (Storm King Mtn) was 18 years ago today. The USFS lost 14 good people that day. Please take a moment to reflect on their deaths.



Yes. Noted.


----------

