# Help!! Logger wants to cut down my trees!!



## Collegegirl007 (Apr 13, 2014)

*Hello,
I'm new to the site so I hope I'm posting in the right area! 

I live in Missouri, in the middle of a wooded area, which is a total of 10 acres. We have a lot of Oak trees, including White Oak, and some cedar. 

I just had a logger come to my door wanting to do a walk around my property. He came back saying he estimates $5000 but it'll be split in half and We'd get $2500 (he said that's estimate only, could end up being more or less). This seems like a large amount of money, and the logger did not mention what trees he is after (my dad feels he's after only white oak) or how many he was interested in cutting. 
So I'm hoping you guys who are experienced can help me out. For the amount quoted, can you estimate how many trees he's planning on cutting? Is each tree really worth a large amount or is he planning to clear a large portion of my woods out? 
If I agree to this, would there be a bunch of big, loud trucks in my yard for a day? How would it work? 
I haven't agreed to anything yet, but will have to decide quickly cause I think he's coming back around again soon, so any information you guys with experience or knowledge can give me would be really helpful! 
Thank you so much!!*


----------



## XSKIER (Apr 13, 2014)

Please post up some pics of your woodlot. Also, have your logger mark the trees he is wanting to take.


----------



## Gologit (Apr 13, 2014)

Before you agree to or sign anything you'll need to find out more about what your trees are actually worth. Don't take the logger's word for it. He might be honest, he might not. How would you know?
To find out the value of your trees you'll need a professional Forester. He'll walk your ground and give you an idea of the timber value. If your state or county has a Forestry division you can find out from them how to contact one. The Forester will help make sure that you're treated fairly. Don't take a Forester who's employed by the mill the timber is going to. Make sure the Forester has no vested interest in your timber value other than determining it.
Have a signed agreement in place before any cutting begins detailing responsibility for roads, slash, cleanup, damage, and soil remediation. Make sure the logger is insured.
Don't let the logger pressure you. He has to buy, you don't have to sell...and those trees aren't going anywhere.
Watch the logger like a hawk. Make sure you get copies of all scale tickets and/or load receipts. Most loggers are honest but why take a chance?

And by the way, I'm logger.





Edit...I probably forgot to mention several things. There's a lady named Slowp who'll probably reply to this thread. She spent 30 years with the FS doing timber sales and what she doesn't know isn't worth knowing. She can fill in the blanks.
There are also some Foresters on here, Madhatte, OlympicYJ, and a couple of others who know what they're talking about.
And you'll notice I capitalized Forester? Loggers are always trying to make points with Foresters.


----------



## Collegegirl007 (Apr 13, 2014)

Thank you so much! That's a lot of great information. There's a lot more to watch out for than I knew. 
Since your a logger, may I ask what you look for in a tree to determine its worth? Can one single tree really be worth $200 (I read that on another website, unsure if it holds any truth)?

Does taking $5000 worth of timber and paying us half ($2500) seem correct? If I decided to do this, I don't want to get ripped off. I was told by a family member who use to be in the business that the logger paying us half is more than reasonable because he use to pay less. But I want to be sure!

I know some of my questions may be difficult to answer without physically walking through my property, so thank you so much for answering my questions and helping me out!


----------



## Collegegirl007 (Apr 13, 2014)

I just read your edit -Thank you!! I hope they can reply as well and give me their thoughts as well!! I look forward to reading what they have to say. 
Lol I did notice that!!


----------



## northmanlogging (Apr 13, 2014)

Different timber, but 2500 for 10 acres seems low to me, granted I'm not a hardwood guy so I'm not sure on that.

Do call a Forester, or at the very least 1-43 more loggers. Like gologit said some good some bad, the bad ones are pretty bad.

As far as what to expect, try a week to a month of noisy chainsaws, noisy equipment, big noisy trucks, and then a bunch of limbs and brush laying around to pick up or burn. Logging is a noisy business, part of why I like it. The time it takes to complete depends on what kind of equipment they plan on using, and the list is long on that, but a summarry could be hand falling cable skidding, or fully mechanized machines cutting and dragging everything, to something in between.

A few pictures would give us a better idea of whats going on by the way.

For the book I'm also a Logger albeit part time

good luck.


----------



## treeslayer2003 (Apr 13, 2014)

well........5000 would be about 3-4 loads of mediocre white oak in my neck of the woods. yes I am a logger. half is ok off the top but be advised some white oak could be worth much more.....at least the first 12 feet of the tree if they are really nice and good size. if I were you I wouldn't allow cutting of any less than 20" dbh unless they are sick. like gologit said a forester is your best bet. county forester if you have one.


----------



## treeslayer2003 (Apr 13, 2014)

and he should give you a count of how many trees he wants to take. if he don't know then he don't have an idea what you'll get. if they are marked and counted then you know what will be taken and how many you will get paid for.
it could be cut right or you could end up with a big mess.


----------



## treeslayer2003 (Apr 13, 2014)

one single tree could be worth 1000 dollars or more, but this would be the exception not the rule.


----------



## Reddog (Apr 13, 2014)

Collegegirl007 said:


> * but will have to decide quickly cause I think he's coming back around again soon, so any information you guys with experience or knowledge can give me would be really helpful! *



He can wait!

Get yourself in contact with a Consulting Forester. That will be a forester that works for you, with your management plan being their goal.

Here is a link to your State Association of Consulting Foresters. http://www.missouriforesters.com/searchMCFA.php


----------



## Gologit (Apr 13, 2014)

Reddog said:


> He can wait!
> 
> Get yourself in contact with a Consulting Forester. That will be a forester that works for you, with your management plan being their goal.
> 
> Here is a link to your State Association of Consulting Foresters. http://www.missouriforesters.com/searchMCFA.php




Good advice from everybody so far.


----------



## Gologit (Apr 13, 2014)

Collegegirl007 said:


> Thank you so much! That's a lot of great information. There's a lot more to watch out for than I knew.
> Since your a logger, may I ask what you look for in a tree to determine its worth? Can one single tree really be worth $200 (I read that on another website, unsure if it holds any truth)?



Yup, it's like any other business dealing where one party knows more than the other...somebody can wind up with light pockets.
I don't know much about your kind of trees and very little about their potential value....I'm out here on the Left Coast and what hardwoods we have are mostly cut for firewood. Some of the guys on here who work in your part of the country can make some pretty good guesses but, again, it's good to have a third party determine the actual worth.
I'll back out and let them that know have their say. Good luck to you and keep us posted as to what happens.


----------



## Twindad (Apr 13, 2014)

Yep. Good advice so far. Please take it.

Like Gologit said, most loggers are honest, hard working, good folks. With that said, in my experience, in my part of the country, the ones who go around knocking on doors looking for timber aren't always the most reputable. Most of the time, the best loggers' reputations precede them and the landowners find them-- they don't have to go around knocking on doors.


----------



## Time's Standing Stihl (Apr 13, 2014)

I totally agree w/ Twindad. Most loggers I know don't go knocking, everyone seeks them. 

Something kinda smells fishy to me.


----------



## Gologit (Apr 13, 2014)

Just thought of something else to add. You asked about noisy trucks and such. Northman said it right...logging is noisy. Saws or feller-bunchers, skidders, logging trucks, and such all add to it. And dust. If the only way in and out of the timber is past your house you can count on a certain amount of noise.

Something else to consider...even the most skilled and careful logging is going to create a mess. Slash piles, skid roads, torn up dirt. And stumps... lots of stumps. Most reputable loggers will do what they can to mitigate the damage but it's still going to look way different than before they arrived. A good logger will work without creating any unnecessary damage to the trees left behind or the ground itself.
A bad logger will leave your place looking like a moon-scape.

Are we cheering you up or scaring you off?


----------



## Woody912 (Apr 13, 2014)

Collegegirl007 said:


> *Hello,
> I'm new to the site so I hope I'm posting in the right area!
> 
> I live in Missouri, in the middle of a wooded area, which is a total of 10 acres. We have a lot of Oak trees, including White Oak, and some cedar.
> ...


 
I would ask him for some kind of a tally sheet from his cruise and then post it. Along with some pics of your good white oaks. And find another local and get more bids. Don't think the cedars are worth much. And they will tear heck out of your woods.


----------



## Collegegirl007 (Apr 14, 2014)

Thanks guys, you've given me a lot of information. Gologit - you guys are definitely scaring me away from this! I completely appreciate what you guys do for a living, but to be honest I really was never for this to begin with. I love my trees, but my parents own this property, so the decision will be up to them in the end. I hope they decide against it cause I'll be sad to see my trees gone, and a bunch of mess in their place, but if they do go through with it, I want to be sure they aren't getting ripped off or being taken into a bad deal. I have already contacted my local Forester - thanks everyone for that advice! I will hopefully hear back from him in the morning! 

I've seen a few requests for pictures, so I will be attaching several for you guys to look over. These were taken this past fall, everything you see in the pictures is still the way it looks now - except with no leaves since we're just getting over winter where I'm at. Or we're supposed to be getting over winter, the weather says we're getting some snow tomorrow after the past several days has been 60 degrees +! Gotta love the Mid-West! 

Thanks again to everyone, you are such a huge help! Let me know what you think of the photos!


----------



## slowp (Apr 14, 2014)

*Check references! *Ask where they've worked. Go look at a recent job. Talk to folks who've worked with them. Is there some kind of accredation program for loggers there? We've got the Warshington Contract Loggers Assc. and Oregon has the Association of Oregon Loggers. Loggers belonging to those groups have to attend seminars and classes each year. That means they are up on what is the latest stuff. Do they have workman's comp? Are they bonded? 

Make sure it is spelled out, in writing, on what is expected. The logger is going to be interested in getting the trees down, cut into logs, and delivered to the mill. But you may want them to pile the slash (limbs and tops) and maybe even chip it. I don't know what is customary in your area, but if you have a house and buildings nearby, you'll want to deal with the slash because it can be a fire hazard. The cleanup work is not the logger's favorite part of the job--he's not making much money from it, but you need to figure out in advance what you want done.

Spell out when work needs to come to a halt because of muddy conditions. Logging equipment can make a mess in the mud. Yeah, they can backblade the ruts out, but that isn't the best thing for soils. Does your state have rules to follow? Do you have a state forestry dept.? Out here, you are required to have a harvest plan approved before operations begin if you are logging more than a log truck load.

Somehow, I get the feeling that the rush may be a bad sign. But that's just me. The guy could have his equipment nearby and that cuts down on the cost of trucking the equipment in. 

Logging will mess up how your place looks for a while. Out here, the brush grows back quickly and the stumps and skid trails become hidden. The only logging method that doesn't create ground disturbance is using a helicopter, and you sure don't want to pay for that!

I also recommend finding a forester to help out. He or *she *can measure (cruise) the timber and come up with a volume estimate and the various grades (quality) of logs you have. Like already has been said, get somebody who is not working for the mill or the logger. Some states have county foresters--maybe give your county extension agent a call to find out. Or google it. Some states have state foresters who can give some advice. Check it out. 

Be careful. Logging can be fun to watch. I've got a friend who was reluctant to have the family place logged again. The previous loggers had scarred up the leave trees during thinning operations. A logging operation was going on up the road. I was the Forester on that job. She asked me how they were, I gave a glowing report--they were excellent, she got them to thin her timber and wanted them back in a few years. That's the way it should go. They took the time to explain and go over what would go on, and her husband could even talk motorcycles with them.


----------



## northmanlogging (Apr 14, 2014)

Not to sway you one way or the other, sometimes logging can be an improvement. Open things up a bit let the trees breath, take care of disease etc.

A Forester could tell you more.


----------



## slowp (Apr 14, 2014)

northmanlogging said:


> Not to sway you one way or the other, sometimes logging can be an improvement. Open things up a bit let the trees breath, take care of disease etc.
> 
> A Forester could tell you more.


 
Yes. We thin trees so they'll grow faster and be healthier. Here's an example of what one of our thinnings looks like. Not pretty, but it is what we want and will green up the next year.


----------



## bitzer (Apr 14, 2014)

Oak needs a lot of sunlight to regenerate. Like big open holes in the canopy. Get a DNR forester or the like in there and have them tell you what you should do with your woods. There could easily be $5000 in timber on ten acres. It depends on how much you take (volume/acre) and the quality of the trees. Typically in a mature oak stand up here we do a shelter wood cut. That means probably 60-80% of the mature timbers comes off. Like I said oak needs a lot of sunlight to grow back well. If the time is right for the woods to be logged it is good for it as long as its done right. I've also seen a lot of people hang onto their trees for too long because they don't want to see them go. Hardwood timber hits a peak and then starts to drop off as far as quality goes. If your timber is mature its time to cut.


----------



## Time's Standing Stihl (Apr 14, 2014)

Beautiful looking timber, just a little thinning you could make that a savannah pretty easy. If i only had just 10 acres, there is *no way* i would sell those white oaks.


----------



## Collegegirl007 (Apr 14, 2014)

Thanks again to everyone!! Amazing information and tips - thank you so much!! You all are really opening my eyes to much more than I ever realized went into it. 
I heard back from my Forester who works for my county. He says the deal may work out, but it sounds fishy to him and is not how he likes to do business. He says we may never actually see payment. Looking back, the logger did say he DID NOT write the check. The check comes from whoever he sells the timber to and then we get half. Does that sound right to you all?

Time Standing Stihl - may I ask why you say if you had 10 acres, you'd never sell white oak? 

Thanks again everyone!


----------



## hanniedog (Apr 14, 2014)

As most have said get a forestor in to see what should be harvested. You might want to think about having a company that uses horses to skid the logs. Much lower impact on the woods.


----------



## madhatte (Apr 14, 2014)

One thing you want to look for in a forester is a local expert. I can give you an estimate of the volume and value of a Douglas-fir here in the Pacific Northwest, but I know nothing about midwest hardwoods. Another consideration (I hope I am not missing anybody's post above me saying the same thing) is cost to get the logs to market -- if fuel and equipment and personnel costs are close to or greater than the value of the log, it won't be a profitable log to haul. Sometimes a sale goes down very close to that margin and nobody makes any money. How far is it to the mill? What equipment will be used? What condition is it in? How many people on the job? If the logger has too many mouths to feed or a piece of equipment is a big debt or is always breaking down, there will be very little left over at the end for you, split 50-50. Lump-sum sales are a bigger risk for the logger but much smaller for the landowner.


----------



## Collegegirl007 (Apr 14, 2014)

That's a really great point, madhatte. Thank you for bringing that up, something else to think about and consider!!


----------



## bitzer (Apr 14, 2014)

I would get that county forester to come out and look at the timber. I wouldn't proceed any further until that was done. Also I would find some local sawmills and get them to bid on it also. This will drive up the price and accountability. The slackers and hacks will back off and you should be able to get nearly top dollar for your timber. This process takes time and its well worth it. Like was said before. You have what they want. Typically a lump sum payment before anything is cut will be the best bang for your buck when you get mills to compete on it.


----------



## stltreedr (Apr 14, 2014)

Collegegirl- I don't know which part of the Show Me state you're in... If you are at all close to St. Louis or surrounding few counties I have a guy for you. 

Regardless of that, you can contact the Missouri Department of Conservation- They should be able to send a state forester to your site and give you recommendations, as well as reputable contractors.

That being said- I would think very long and hard about logging a site as smalll as yours, especiiallly if it is your home site. You aren't going to live long enough to grow a new generation of mature trees. You aren't talking about life changing money here, you can barely buy a junk car for 25 hundo. 

If you're interested in getting the name of a reputable consulting forester, PM me.


----------



## treeslayer2003 (Apr 14, 2014)

Collegegirl007 said:


> Thanks again to everyone!! Amazing information and tips - thank you so much!! You all are really opening my eyes to much more than I ever realized went into it.
> I heard back from my Forester who works for my county. He says the deal may work out, but it sounds fishy to him and is not how he likes to do business. He says we may never actually see payment. Looking back, the logger did say he DID NOT write the check. The check comes from whoever he sells the timber to and then we get half. Does that sound right to you all?
> 
> Time Standing Stihl - may I ask why you say if you had 10 acres, you'd never sell white oak?
> ...


50/50 split is fine, I do it often but the folks I do that with know my reputation well. if this guy can't provide jobs he has done in the area then i'd be skeptical. county forester will help you and should mark trees that should go so you will know what is going.
10 or 100 acres, makes no difference all timber should be managed. none live forever and any one who thinks trees never die are fooling themselves.


----------



## Woody912 (Apr 14, 2014)

stltreedr said:


> Collegegirl- I don't know which part of the Show Me state you're in... If you are at all close to St. Louis or surrounding few counties I have a guy for you.
> 
> Regardless of that, you can contact the Missouri Department of Conservation- They should be able to send a state forester to your site and give you recommendations, as well as reputable contractors.
> 
> ...


 agree 100% unless you really need the money. Right now you have a park, if you thin it too much you will end up with a briar patch and your remaining white oaks will respond to the increased sunlight by throwing side shoots which will degrade their value.


----------



## northmanlogging (Apr 14, 2014)

to the OP, I only cut on a percentage split and the mill writes the checks. Different areas work differently though some folks only buy the timber, some will put some money down and then split it after a certain amount is made, many ways to clear cut a forest.

And please contact a Forester, I can bore you to death with talk of western hemlock, doug fir, alder, western red ceder, and such, but know next to nothing about oak, doesn't even grow around here... and likewise the timber in northern misery could be diffent then the south etc.


----------



## discounthunter (Apr 15, 2014)

you said this is your parents property. is the logger talking to you or them. are you just trying to help your parents not get swindled.


----------



## stihl sawing (Apr 15, 2014)

Just to give you an idea on it's worth, the guy across the street from me sold 20 acres of huge oaks and Gum trees. they did not clearcut it. they left a lot of big trees. He got 15,000 dollars for hisself. Now these were big oaks.


----------



## bitzer (Apr 15, 2014)

I just cut a job on 10 acres. It was big timber. Red and white oak. I took 50,000 bf out of there. That should equate to around 12-15,000 dollars for the landowner.


----------



## crazytimber (Apr 16, 2014)

As a small logging company here in ohio I agree get a forester most loggers are honest how ever theres a bad one in every lot. One thing to not mentioned and is a previalent problem here in ohio is property lines not properly marked make sure you have a plot map were your logger and yourself can find and mark your lines ( most loggers can do this ) I leave a buffer zone of uncut trees usually 10 to 30 feet from the line this keeps your neighbors happy most the time. Also a side note If im out driving around Ive been know to knock on doors if I come across nice timber. Mead paper is a major force here in southern ohio so it can be slim picking


----------



## Woody912 (Apr 16, 2014)

bitzer said:


> I just cut a job on 10 acres. It was big timber. Red and white oak. I took 50,000 bf out of there. That should equate to around 12-15,000 dollars for the landowner.


 
Kind of curious about this. The Indiana Hardwood stumpage report would seem to show that the price paid for #1 oak might be around $800/m bf, always assumed this was the price to landowner


----------



## Swamp Yankee (Apr 16, 2014)

crazytimber said:


> As a small logging company here in ohio I agree get a forester most loggers are honest how ever theres a bad one in every lot. One thing to not mentioned and is a previalent problem here in ohio is property lines not properly marked make sure you have a plot map were your logger and yourself can find and mark your lines ( most loggers can do this ) I leave a buffer zone of uncut trees usually 10 to 30 feet from the line this keeps your neighbors happy most the time. Also a side note If im out driving around Ive been know to knock on doors if I come across nice timber. Mead paper is a major force here in southern ohio so it can be slim picking



This is excellent advice

Along with everything else that has been previously mentioned, obviously.

Here in my area I get involved helping to harvest more lots in the 10 to 30 acre size range than in the 100 plus. It's just the nature of the beast as many large tracts of land have been subdivided and sold off. The species and grade of the wood to be harvested is what you'll receive a check for and as mentioned that's where having a Forester watching your interests reaps huge benefits.

Going back to crazytimber's point, be sure your parents' property was properly surveyed, and the pins, markers, flags etc are all still in place. Over the past years some of the guys I've worked for have found themselves shut down, one due to a court injunction, because they wound up in the middle of border disputes between abutting property owners that pretty much hated each other. May not be the situation here, but the point of knowing and having marked boundaries is critical to protecting all, landowners and harvesters.

Oh, and the injunction situation, it was predicated on damage to wetlands, potential Indian burial grounds, and incorrect boundaries from a 75 year old survey. It did not however, have anything to do with the fact the landowner's abutting property owner had a small pot farm growing on the back remote corner his property that he did not want discovered.

Take Care


----------



## bitzer (Apr 16, 2014)

Woody912 said:


> Kind of curious about this. The Indiana Hardwood stumpage report would seem to show that the price paid for #1 oak might be around $800/m bf, always assumed this was the price to landowner


That is probably price delivered to the mill. At least that is close to the price delivered around here. Logging and trucking costs come off of the top of that cost. Typically loggers get $100- $120 per thousand board feet if they sub contract cutting/skidding for a mill up here. Trucking is also pretty close to that rate, mileage depending. If the logger is buying the standing timber and not a mill the logger will make considerably more. I would guess the landowner gets roughly the same if a mill or a logger buys the standing timber.


----------



## Woody912 (Apr 16, 2014)

bitzer said:


> That is probably price delivered to the mill. At least that is close to the price delivered around here. Logging and trucking costs come off of the top of that cost. Typically loggers get $100- $120 per thousand board feet if they sub contract cutting/skidding for a mill up here. Trucking is also pretty close to that rate, mileage depending. If the logger is buying the standing timber and not a mill the logger will make considerably more. I would guess the landowner gets roughly the same if a mill or a logger buys the standing timber.


 
yea, after re-reading everything I think you're right. However veneer grade prime seems to go as high as $3/bf. If I was selling 10 acres of good oak I would want their tally sheet and then do my own cruise and measuring before I sold anything. I realize I'm not a pro but I don't want to bend over and grab my ankles w/o giving it my best effort! Wonder if the OP realized she's gonna have a bunch of tops on the ground after they pull out?


----------



## bitzer (Apr 16, 2014)

Woody912 said:


> yea, after re-reading everything I think you're right. However veneer grade prime seems to go as high as $3/bf. If I was selling 10 acres of good oak I would want their tally sheet and then do my own cruise and measuring before I sold anything. I realize I'm not a pro but I don't want to bend over and grab my ankles w/o giving it my best effort! Wonder if the OP realized she's gonna have a bunch of tops on the ground after they pull out?



Even if they pulped out the tops there will still be a lot of wood left in the woods. That's not a bad thing though. Especially for oak re-gen. The tops give small trees a chance to grow because they are less accessible to animal browsing. If you have several parties competing for the sale the numbers will get as close as possible to accurate.


----------



## OlympicYJ (Apr 20, 2014)

So I just skimmed everyones posts. As everyone else said get yourself a forester. Some counties have extension foresters and the state should definitely have an extension forester. If you call your county Agriculture extension office they can probably provide a phone number. I'm no hardwood forester so I couldn't tell you definitively how much should or shouldn't be taken out. Just by looking at your pictures, if done right, you could see some real improvement of your timber. Some of the bigger uglier stuff could go and some of the smaller uglier looking stuff could probably go. This would be a timber stand improvement (TSI) or a selective harvest, one term is just more descriptive than the other. I've never seen a stand that couldn't use some TSI to one degree or another.

So if you do have it logged; don't worry too much about the mess. As bitzer pointed out it will help with your regeneration by protecting them from browse. Also the best trees are going to be the seed trees. Granted sometimes those have to be taken out.

To answer a question about stumpage values. They always seem low! However once you subtract road building, logging, and trucking costs out that's what you'll get. So as an example if you had a stand of timber you can get say $673/mbf at the gate from the mill the stumpage value of that log is $275/mbf to the landowner.

I be one of the Forester types...

Git brownies are good.... one of my fave contractors brought in doughnuts one morning. All of us operations guys flocked to the map table. lol


----------



## Collegegirl007 (Apr 23, 2014)

So I have an update for everyone today..

I was under the impression we had decided to hold off on the logging at least for now, but this morning when I got up and I was siting at the table to eat breakfast, I seen a strange man in my woods with a chainsaw and equipment! I freaked out..after talking to the guy, he said he had no idea, his boss (which is his dad) had told him it was okay to log our property..he said he had already cut some logs and would take what he already had and pay us for it, but he would stop there right away and not cut anymore. 20 minutes or so later, his boss/dad showed up at our door apologizing and seeming worried (probably worried we would sue him). He assured us that we would get paid on Friday and if we had any concerns, he just logged and paid our neighbors woods and we could ask them as a reference. He also mentioned he had already got about his limit from our woods and was pretty much done anyway, whatever that means..

I'm really upset that no one so much as knocked on our door to even tell us someone would be out on our property today..isn't that only professional? Also, we have not heard one word out of the guy since he did his quote, he told us to just let him know from there..and then he just shows up today out of no where and has his son log our woods with out even knocking on our door? No contract..no nothing! Shouldn't they have waited for us to call them and tell them we wanted it done? Or at least called us to ask, make an arrangement, sign a contract, mark trees, etc? 

What I can see that they cut from my house alone upsets me, I can see that it is a bit clearer and I can also see smaller trees and brush that has been knocked over and not cleaned up as you guys warned me of. I have yet to go all the way to the back of the property to see what else been done, but upon asking him, he assured us that no mess or damage was done..he even seemed perplexed at what was meant when asked if there was any damage or mess left as if it's not even possible! I'm scared to go back there and see what, if anything, is left or to see if anything has been damaged or mess has been left! Not sure what to think..just pretty upset. Not professional at all!! 

What do you guys think? I'm really interested to hear your thoughts on all this..


----------



## Gologit (Apr 23, 2014)

Collegegirl007 said:


> So I have an update for everyone today..
> 
> I was under the impression we had decided to hold off on the logging at least for now, but this morning when I got up and I was siting at the table to eat breakfast, I seen a strange man in my woods with a chainsaw and equipment! I freaked out..after talking to the guy, he said he had no idea, his boss (which is his dad) had told him it was okay to log our property..he said he had already cut some logs and would take what he already had and pay us for it, but he would stop there right away and not cut anymore. 20 minutes or so later, his boss/dad showed up at our door apologizing and seeming worried (probably worried we would sue him). He assured us that we would get paid on Friday and if we had any concerns, he just logged and paid our neighbors woods and we could ask them as a reference. He also mentioned he had already got about his limit from our woods and was pretty much done anyway, whatever that means..
> 
> ...




Call the cops. Soon. Maybe now. If the guy had no contract and no permission to cut on your property what he did was an act of trespass and theft.

If physically possible, do not let them remove what they've cut. It's evidence now. Accept no money from them either.


----------



## treeslayer2003 (Apr 23, 2014)

first call your parents.....they may have talked to him?
here we have to submit paperwork to the county for a permit that the landowner would have to have signed. not sure where you are.
as far as damage, it is impossible not to have it, but damage to good saplings should be minimal. trash trees get run over not little oak saplings.


----------



## Gologit (Apr 23, 2014)

treeslayer2003 said:


> first call your parents.....they may have talked to him?
> here we have to submit paperwork to the county for a permit that the landowner would have to have signed. not sure where you are.
> as far as damage, it is impossible not to have it, but damage to good saplings should be minimal. trash trees get run over not little oak saplings.


 
You're right...call the parents first.


----------



## Collegegirl007 (Apr 23, 2014)

The first thing I did when I saw the guy out in our woods was tell my parents about it. They did not give them the go ahead. My mom is against it, dad is for it, so from my understanding they were still discussing it. But now after what happened this morning, I guess they are wanting to say "whats done is done, can't undo it" and are figuring they should take the money since they need it. The loggers already had taken the logs they cut with them when they left early this morning, so its too late to keep them from taking the logs. Since it is their land, it is up to them what to decide. But I want to protect them with as much information as I can, so thank you everyone for your information. I wish the loggers here were as professional and helpful as you guys, then I would have any issues! 

According to what the logger told my dad during the time he came to give the quote, he was guaranteed to get at least $2000, but since there was no contract and they just came onto our property without the go ahead from any of us, I don't know..I thought about contacting my neighbors that the logger said he just worked with and asking them about their experience with him..what do you guys think?


----------



## 1270d (Apr 23, 2014)

Seems kinda hard to believe someone was there falling timber and you didn't hear it until they were pretty much done?


----------



## treeslayer2003 (Apr 23, 2014)

it never hurts to talk and ask, just be tactful for the time being. you may need them later so don't make um mad, just gather info.
I could help you more if I knew what kinda truck hauled the logs. tractor trailer or strait truck and how many loads they took. 2000 is not a lot of white oak.


----------



## bitzer (Apr 23, 2014)

This sounds like total ******** now. They got it all done without anyone knowing and hauled the logs. The woods is right next to the house. Its not like its ten miles away. ********.


----------



## Collegegirl007 (Apr 23, 2014)

Arboristsite Lurker, I have 10 acres and they were in the very back the majority of the time. I only caught him once he was near my house and I had just woken up. So he was doing all that while I was asleep, God only knows how early he was out here. He wasn't using any huge special equipment, he only had a chainsaw and a small piece of equipment that he would chain the logs to and drag them off to where he needed to go, and that piece of equipment was not loud at all. I have neighbors who I'm use to making all sorts of noises, especially in the spring/summer when they are working in their woods/yards, so it doesn't tend to wake me up unless its super loud. On top of that, my neighbors have been getting their property logged for the past day or two so any chainsaw noises I heard I didn't think anything of. Either way, why would I come on here and lie? I signed up for this account and came on here because I'm genuinely concerned for my parents and their property. I have met some great, honest people here and gotten a lot of really great advice - so to all of you guys, thank you!! 

Treeslayer2003, I am letting my parents handle all of this since it is their property, and everyone's advice has really helped them out so they better understand. But they are treating the situation calmly. It wasn't a tractor trailer, I seen it drive by down the road earlier today and it was a bigger truck with a long flat bed on the back of it. I know that's probably not a very good description, but I only caught sight of him for a second. As far as how much they took, its anyone's guess right now and that's kinda scary to me because they didn't even have the professionalism to discuss how many trees they planned to cut or did cut. We did look over our property and they didn't take a whole lot, my dad guessed 2 truckloads worth. I noticed they even took a few logs that were pretty skinny which surprised me, I didn't think logs that were skinny in size would be worth anything to them. They did a good job on minimizing damages, so my parents were happy about that. Thanks for trying to help me figure out if $2000 is a good deal. 

It looks like my parents are wanting to go ahead with it since what the loggers did is already done and my dad was wanting to say yes anyway. My mom was against it, but now that its done she figures why not just get the money from it now. They've had a lot going on the past few weeks, so they really don't want to make anymore difficulties in their lives by fighting with the loggers. I just hope they learned something and will knock on the homeowners door first in the future!


----------



## slowp (Apr 23, 2014)

Then take pictures of the stumps. Measure the stumps. Get your folks to call the cops. They are dishonest and I think you've been taken, if you aren't taking us for a ride.


----------



## treeslayer2003 (Apr 23, 2014)

well for two straight truck loads 2000 is very good. those guys may be very honest, I have no way of knowing but it seems unlikely bad loggers would stay in business any where now days.
good luck


----------



## Collegegirl007 (Apr 23, 2014)

Why would I take you guys for a ride, I got enough going on in my life I don't need to come on here to create drama. If you can't give me any useful information, why even reply to my post?


----------



## bitzer (Apr 23, 2014)

Maybe the old man gave em the go ahead and didn't want to tell the wife cause she said no.


----------



## bitzer (Apr 23, 2014)

Collegegirl007 said:


> Why would I take you guys for a ride, I got enough going on in my life I don't need to come on here to create drama. If you can't give me any useful information, why even reply to my post?


We gave you a lot of good information and we have all seen countless threads where we spend a lot of time posting our experience only to find out its a bunch of BS or the original poster never comes back.

THEY TRESPASSED AND STOLE FROM YOU!!! CALL THE ****ING COPS!!!

It would be the same if they robbed your house and paid you for what they think they took.


----------



## Collegegirl007 (Apr 23, 2014)

Treeslayer2003, thank you for the great advice! It's good to have someone on here helping me out. I will pass on your words to my parents, and hopefully we will actually see this logger again along with the $2000 check! We'll find out on Friday. It makes me feel a lot better knowing you feel like this guy is being honest. Thank you again!!


----------



## treeslayer2003 (Apr 23, 2014)

I don't think we have enough info to make a judgement here. no offence but I think there may be more to this you may even know.
good luck to you


----------



## Collegegirl007 (Apr 23, 2014)

First, my dad is not old and second, you don't know my parents and its pretty disrespectful to suggest my dad would outright lie to my mother..have some respect for people you don't even know! 

I didn't know people came on here just to give you guys a hard time, so I'm sorry. I'm not one of them, I think it's a waste of time to do so. I have taken time out of doing other things I need to be doing in order to research this topic, including post on here. I don't need to create drama, I have enough going on in my life as it is. If you had any question as to my honesty, you could've asked in a respectful way and I'd have been happy to take a picture of my yard/woods or even a picture of the check once the logger (hopefully) shows up with it. 

As of right now, after everything I have been accused of, I'm done with this. Like I said, I have a lot already going on and I don't need to be treated this way in addition to everything else I'm going through in my life. You need to remember that you don't know people or what's going on in their lives, everyone deserves to be treated with respect. I have no other reason to be here other than to get advice and help. My family recently went through something pretty difficult and I don't blame them at all for not wanting to create drama by calling the cops or fighting the loggers. I'm sure everyone here has made a mistake at one point in their lives, and maybe the logger made a genuine mistake or had a miscommunication. So I have to agree with treeslayer2003, and stay calm and tactful. Yes, I was and am pretty upset by the situation but I understand where they are coming from and respect their decision.

treeslayer2003 and gologit (and others that posted in the beginning, you know who you are) - thank you for your time and for giving me your honest advice and for never judging me or being rude to me for no reason. Your advice really helped my family and I out a lot and we are now a lot better informed if this situation ever comes up again in the future! Thank you for your advice today also, it makes me feel a lot better knowing all you have said and helps us to make a better decision on how to move forward. 

Thanks again to everyone! Stay safe and God Bless!


----------



## northmanlogging (Apr 23, 2014)

If anything they should have at least called and warned someone a day or so in advance that they where ready to move onto your property, its generally bad manners to just show up and start making a mess of things...

Also, CALL THE POLICE... no agreement verbal or written, means stealling, just cause they gave you a quote does not mean that you wanted the place logged.

And I would be surprised if they show up with any money come friday, from the sounds of it they started cutting on monday, promising all your neighbors that they would be payed on friday, after they got their check from wherever... and only planned on taking a very few loads, enough for 2-3 a day until thursday... then dissapear into the ether. With all the logs and the money.

By the way it takes a minimum of 2 weeks to get a check from any of the mills around here.

And starting from the back and working forward toward the house WTF, not even bothering to use the driveway, I smell a rat.


----------



## Nuzzy (Apr 23, 2014)

Collegegirl007 said:


> First, my dad is not old and second, you don't know my parents and its pretty disrespectful to suggest my dad would outright lie to my mother..have some respect for people you don't even know!
> 
> I didn't know people came on here just to give you guys a hard time, so I'm sorry. I'm not one of them, I think it's a waste of time to do so. I have taken time out of doing other things I need to be doing in order to research this topic, including post on here. I don't need to create drama, I have enough going on in my life as it is. If you had any question as to my honesty, you could've asked in a respectful way and I'd have been happy to take a picture of my yard/woods or even a picture of the check once the logger (hopefully) shows up with it.
> 
> ...





Call the cops.

Or don't.

But the situation you have described does not sound normal.




As for the things you've been accused of, understand that some people get kicks coming into places like this and telling such stories because they're bored and like the attention. It's no dig on you. It's just the reality of dealing with faceless randomness.


----------



## Gologit (Apr 24, 2014)

Collegegirl007 said:


> Treeslayer2003, thank you for the great advice! It's good to have someone on here helping me out. I will pass on your words to my parents, and hopefully we will actually see this logger again along with the $2000 check! We'll find out on Friday. It makes me feel a lot better knowing you feel like this guy is being honest. Thank you again!!



Let us know how this whole thing turns out.


----------



## Mike from Maine (Apr 27, 2014)

What a mess. Here's to hopeing they get paid.


----------



## IcePick (Apr 28, 2014)

Sounds like you chased her off Bitz! Oh well, we all still like you.


----------



## imagineero (Apr 29, 2014)

You seem like nice folks. Can I have your address so I can come take some stuff without your permission or paying you too?


----------



## slowp (Apr 29, 2014)

Maybe the logger is from Nevada.


----------



## jwp (Apr 29, 2014)

I would consider using the wood for myself as firewood and maybe selling it as firewood. Also 10 acres of hardwood might be a good spot for hunting. 

I had some stands of pines thinned and had an acre clear cut so that I could put in some fruit trees and green fields for deer. 

I like trying to look into the future and deciding what I want out of the land for profit as well as recreation.

Whatever you decide to do make sure that you have it is writing and there is a clear understanding of what is going to be done. Cut trees and damaged trees can not be replaced.


----------



## HuskStihl (Apr 29, 2014)

If the young lady has been truly r-u-n-n-o-f-t by you big rude boys and Grrrl... Has anybody ever heard of that? It would seem to not be worth the risk to trespass and steal in broad daylight with a chainsaw, skidder and a truck. You wouldn't get lucky and have the owner's sleep thru the operation too many times, and if even one person decides to call the cops rather than taking the promised "$2000 next Friday", you'd be looking at jail time.


----------



## treeslayer2003 (Apr 29, 2014)

no, not in this day and time. 30 years ago maybe, and still some got sued out of bness. now not getting what you should happens all the time even with big mill jobs. that's why I always say get several loggers to price it. competition drives price.


----------



## milkie62 (May 3, 2014)

Here is my story about a local logger.We had some straight line winds come through my property.A bunch of hemlock was blown over.They were way to big for my tractor to pull out so I thought I would hire a logger to pull the logs out for me since I was going to have the logs sawn for a barn.I talk to the guy on the phone and ask him if he just hires his skidder out by the hour or day.He said YES i do.I ask him a price and he said $110/thou bd feet.This was a few yrs ago.He shows up and we go walking down my wood road.My wood roads could almost be driven by a front wheel drive car.Well I show him the trees.On the way back he says lets go up this way through the woods.I tell him I do not want anymore roads through my woods,but he insists.We walk back and when we get back to the house he tells me that he will cut out my oak and cherry and bring out some of the hemlock for me.He also then tells me that he does not just bring out wood like he originally said on the phone.He had a pickup truck that was held together with ratchet straps and his skidder did not look much better.He was also complaining that he was not working at the time since his skidder needed a $600 part for the winch.Apparently if he could not come up with $600 to repair his skidder,he should not be calling himself a logger.I told him no thanks not interested in selling.He did call me back in 6 months and said he would drag my logs out but I had told him I found a real logger.


----------



## amscontr (May 6, 2014)

Yeah that kinda of "Stuff" happens around here in Illinois and Missouri all of the time.
You have these hard up druggie fly-by-night so-called loggers more or less stealing timber from old folks and people in general.
I guess now that hardwood timber prices are up the rats come crawling out of the woodwork.
The Conservation Cops in my area are busting these clowns on a daily basis. Just like Scrap Metal thieves these maggots will steal your trees for timber and/or firewood.
The lady should take the advice given and go with it.
Missouri was one of the first Conceal and Carry States and if you see "Bigfoot The Monster" stealing your trees guess what................Shoot first, ask questions later.


----------



## lfnh (May 7, 2014)

Whew, glad it wasn't valuable black walnut and grand theft


----------

