# Loading Ramps (Spring Loaded)



## curdy (Jun 13, 2007)

OK, so I was looking around on the Wood-Mizer website and noticed a really cool set of loading ramps that had spring loaded teeth that would raise after the log rolls over them and safely stop the log so you can re-position your cant hook. I called them and they sell them for about $480 (included tax and shipping).

I think I could build something similar for a lot less that would fit my needs better (they seemed a bit short and steep). I need to be able to get the logs up onto short saw horses (Woodshop design, maybe 2' high). So having the ramps be a little longer so they can go higher but still be at a lesser angle would be ideal. I figure that eventually they could be used to get up on the side of a trailer one day too...so that height should be taken into consideration as well when designing them.

I tried to get a better picture, but this was the best I could get to work. 







Here's the web address you can go to and watch the movie that shows them working. Its part of the 'Pro-Pack' that is mentioned about half way through the video.

http://www.woodmizer.com/en/sawmills/manual/lt15/video.aspx

My thought would be to use 2 smaller sized I-beams. Turn them on their sides (so they look like an 'H'). Use the gap to lay the teeth with bolts through the side...then have compression springs under them. This way, when the log rolls up the ramp it will push the teeth down, and the spring will bring them back up after the log passes over them.

I can try to do a rough sketch and scan it in if the description isn't enough. 

Thoughts, tips, ideas on this?


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## woodshop (Jun 13, 2007)

Go for it. Of course the devil is always in the details. Quick and dirty thinking, it would seem to me the hard part would be to design those hinges so that they would be sturdy enough for a large log, but also slim enough to be used as you intended, easily being sprung and unsprung by a log rolling past them. IF I was to tackle this, I might use a cam system, the sprung cams being off to the side of the "ramp". The cams would look similar to a quarter of a circle, and would be pushed down as log rolls over them, and spring back up above ramp to stop log from rolling backwards. Not sure if all that would be faster or easier than a floor jack though. Main problem I have with rolling a log up a ramp with a cant hook, is that once you get over 20 inches or so, most cant hooks like the one you have in the pic are too small to get a really good bite, and the log gets way too heavy to be behind if your cant hook does slip or something goes wrong. A 20" oak log 8 ft long is over 1000 lbs. Snap your leg in two in a heartbeat if it comes back down that ramp at you. 

Hope I didn't damper your enthusiasm though.


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## olyman (Jun 13, 2007)

woodshop---22 in large end---20 in small end---8 foot---1265 lbs---:biggrinbounce2:


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## woodshop (Jun 13, 2007)

olyman said:


> woodshop---22 in large end---20 in small end---8 foot---1265 lbs---:biggrinbounce2:



yup, I was using wet oak, which I know to be about 5 lb a bd ft right off the mill. Did quick and dirty math calculating square inches in the log, convert to bd ft and multiply by 5lbs. Bottom line is, anything over a 16 inch 8 ft log would hurt you plenty if it fell or rolled onto you.


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## curdy (Jun 14, 2007)

Hey Woodshop, yeah, all legit concerns and trust me, already in mind! I like my legs, and would prefer to keep them...need them to chase my wife around the house 

I think our thoughts on spring loading the teeth are similar. Its hard to describe in words, but I have it pictured in my head. I would miter the teeth so when they raise up, the bottom sits flat on the ramp...then there would be either another bolt over top of it to help prevent it being flipped backwards. My thoughts would be that those 2 types of support would make it plenty strong. 

The area where I'm a little stumped would be a way to make sure that the teeth can't be pushed back down...think that pressure is also coming down on the teeth because of the round shape of the log wanting to roll not slide. (Does that make sense?)

I do have the 60" Logrite cant hook and feel pretty comfortable rolling some big logs with it. But I wouldn't roll anything over maybe 28" anyway, because the log would be too tall for me once one the horses. I'd square it up and then get it up on there.

Keep in mind also, that I would plan on having the ramps at about a 20 degree incline.

The other option was to parbuckle. Back my truck up to the horses and have a winch pull them over simple ramps with steel cable. 

Certainly an option, just wouldn't work unless they're round (if I understand parbuckling correctly). I'd also have to have my truck there, not always an option.

I may very well end up going the floor jack way for now. Was over at HF the other day and they had a 2-ton one for $39 I think...wasn't aluminum, but I was surprised to feel that it wasn't as heavy as I thought it would be.


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## Sawyer Rob (Jun 14, 2007)

I think i'd mill near a tree and parbuckle my logs up the ramps with a come-a-long or other winch... Your on the opposite side of the ramps away from the log, and it's waaaaaay less work than a canthook!

Rob


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## curdy (Jun 14, 2007)

I'm with ya, just one question though. I figured to parbuckle I'd need something bracing the saw horses on the side opposite the ramps. If I don't, won't there be a good bit of pressure wanting to pull the horses back or pull them over? I've only read about parbuckling onto a trailer or a flatbed. (That's why I figured I'd back the truck up to them and use the truck rather than a tree...but would much rather use the tree if I could) Keep in mind I haven't done this before.


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## BobL (Jun 14, 2007)

curdy said:


> Hey Woodshop, yeah, all legit concerns and trust me, already in mind! I like my legs, and would prefer to keep them...need them to chase my wife around the house
> 
> I think our thoughts on spring loading the teeth are similar. Its hard to describe in words, but I have it pictured in my head. I would miter the teeth so when they raise up, the bottom sits flat on the ramp...then there would be either another bolt over top of it to help prevent it being flipped backwards. My thoughts would be that those 2 types of support would make it plenty strong. an on having the ramps at about a 20 degree incline.



Do you mean like this?


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## Sawyer Rob (Jun 14, 2007)

> I'm with ya, just one question though. I figured to parbuckle I'd need something bracing the saw horses on the side opposite the ramps. If I don't, won't there be a good bit of pressure wanting to pull the horses back or pull them over?



I'd say it depends on how long your ramps are and also if there's a way to hook them to the horses... If the ramp is attached to the horse, it will go a long way toward to keeping them upright... Also the end of the ramp could be made to dig into the ground some to help hold it in place...

Rob


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## curdy (Jun 14, 2007)

BobL: Cool picture. Close to what I had in mind, yeah. I was thinking that when the teeth were in the upright position the bottom would sit flat. Then there could be a cross piece on top to brace it from going backwards. I'll see if I can show you what I mean by modifying your picture...

Rob: Attaching the ramps to the saw horses was actually another idea I had. I'll try to take a picture for this one. My thought would be to have both horses attached with a cross piece, then have the ramps attached to that. This would distribute the weight more evenly on all 4 legs of each as opposed to the 2 on one side of each.

I like Woodshop's floor jack idea, but there are times when I am in someone's yard and they're not to excited about me digging a hole to get the jack under there. Such is the case right now with some really nice black cherry. 

OK, time to fire up MS Paint. (Wish I still had my old laptop with photoshop...now that was a cool program!)


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## curdy (Jun 14, 2007)

Oh yeah, check out the artistic skills.:help: Wow, I need a CAD program!


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## woodshop (Jun 15, 2007)

curdy said:


> I like Woodshop's floor jack idea, but there are times when I am in someone's yard and they're not to excited about me digging a hole to get the jack under there. Such is the case right now with some really nice black cherry.


You don't have to dig a hole to use the jack to get it up on horses, I only do that with very large logs like 30 inches and up that I can't easily roll with a cant hook. Most logs I simply roll one end up onto a small ramp I built by sistering a couple 24 inch long 2x6's... bandsaw a 30 degree slope on one end of them, and put a piece perpendicular on the other end (kind of make a big T) which keeps the 2x6's upright. Then I simply cant hook one end of the log up onto this little ramp, which gets the log up high enough to get the jack under. I found at first that the log would slip going up that little slope, so I screwed some lag bolts into it so the bark has something to grab as it climbs.


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## dustytools (Jun 15, 2007)

curdy said:


> Oh yeah, check out the artistic skills.:help: Wow, I need a CAD program!



I believe that designing something as in this picture that one could use weights on the lower end of the stops instead of springs or a cam and let gravity do the work of raising them back up.


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## aquan8tor (Jun 16, 2007)

woodshop said:


> You don't have to dig a hole to use the jack to get it up on horses, I only do that with very large logs like 30 inches and up that I can't easily roll with a cant hook. Most logs I simply roll one end up onto a small ramp I built by sistering a couple 24 inch long 2x6's... bandsaw a 30 degree slope on one end of them, and put a piece perpendicular on the other end (kind of make a big T) which keeps the 2x6's upright. Then I simply cant hook one end of the log up onto this little ramp, which gets the log up high enough to get the jack under. I found at first that the log would slip going up that little slope, so I screwed some lag bolts into it so the bark has something to grab as it climbs.




Woodshop, you are full of really good ideas. I'm going to use this one, minus the sawhorses. I do have a bunch of 3' sections of railroad ties that would work though....I tried to rep you on that, but it says I have to "spread some more" around first... Don't know what that means. Anyone??


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## aquan8tor (Jun 16, 2007)

curdy said:


> Hey Woodshop, yeah, all legit concerns and trust me, already in mind! I like my legs, and would prefer to keep them...need them to chase my wife around the house
> 
> I think our thoughts on spring loading the teeth are similar. Its hard to describe in words, but I have it pictured in my head. I would miter the teeth so when they raise up, the bottom sits flat on the ramp...then there would be either another bolt over top of it to help prevent it being flipped backwards. My thoughts would be that those 2 types of support would make it plenty strong.
> 
> ...






I have the 60" logrite hook as well, and the log jack attatchment thing, which is worth nothing with big logs, unless you're paul bunyan....seriously though, I'm not a very big guy, and I love the thing. I weigh like 165, and I have no trouble rolling 24" x 8' oak logs; I have to put my back into it if it isn't perfectly round, but it rolls. Rolling it onto something that isn't an incline, however, is another story. 

Dan, I'd be leery of the "light" 2-ton jack. My 3 ton jack is a good 75-80lbs. 
I'm kinda embarassed to ask, but what is parbuckling???


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## woodshop (Jun 16, 2007)

aquan8tor said:


> Dan, I'd be leery of the "light" 2-ton jack. My 3 ton jack is a good 75-80lbs.



Actually, I use one of those light aluminum HF jacks, mainly because it is light enough to move around. Using it to lift logs means you are carrying it to the log, pulling it in and out from underneath logs, moving it around a lot. With a heavy steel one that would get old quick. My aluminum one is light enough that it's no problem. As for capacity, even a 1 1/2 ton is enough to lift ONE END of even a huge 36" log off the ground safely. 

On today's menu, a 10 ft long 38" red oak that blew down in a friends back yard... gonna be a hot one later today here on the east coast, so need to get an early start.


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## aquan8tor (Jun 16, 2007)

I guess I never thought of it like that. The weight of mine gets old just pulling it out to use it changing a tire! I suppose that old adage if it aint broke, fits here. Woodshop, when you get back from milling, I have a question for you; your blocks that you use on the horses and on the jack; I think you said they are black locust, but you have some sort of metal spear-point embedded in there to bite into the log, right?? I tried to look back through old posts but maybe I didn't look far enough. Good luck milling.


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## curdy (Jun 16, 2007)

woodshop said:


> You don't have to dig a hole to use the jack to get it up on horses, I only do that with very large logs like 30 inches and up that I can't easily roll with a cant hook. Most logs I simply roll one end up onto a small ramp I built by sistering a couple 24 inch long 2x6's... bandsaw a 30 degree slope on one end of them, and put a piece perpendicular on the other end (kind of make a big T) which keeps the 2x6's upright. Then I simply cant hook one end of the log up onto this little ramp, which gets the log up high enough to get the jack under. I found at first that the log would slip going up that little slope, so I screwed some lag bolts into it so the bark has something to grab as it climbs.



Well, I stand corrected. Thanks for the clarification! I guess I was just picturing the post you had on that large white oak you cut up. Can you post some pics of those ramps? I may end up going this route for now being that it obviously does work well (otherwise you wouldn't be doing it!) and I need to get moving on some of these logs. I can design these spring loaded ramps later to be used in tandem with a winch and parbuckling.


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## Sawyer Rob (Jun 16, 2007)

> but what is parbuckling???



Here i am "parbuckleing" a whole load of logs off my trailor at once...






Rob


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## aquan8tor (Jun 16, 2007)

Sawyer Rob said:


> Here i am "parbuckleing" a whole load of logs off my trailor at once...
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Thanks, Rob. That's what I had pictured in my mind, but I wasn't sure. That's one hoss of a tractor you have there. My uncle still won't let me use his Case 1290 for skidding out logs at the farm. Its a big 2WD model, and he's understandably afraid of the stability in the woods. Its a farm tractor, not a skidder....Sure wish I could get a couple logs up a hill with it though, and just saw them on the flat. My saw winch wasn't up to the task last time I was there. My starter cord on the 394 snapped, and all I had for backup was the little 359 etech that we keep at the farm for firewood and emergencies. Needless to say, 3.9 is a little less than 7.1 HP for pulling 9' long 24" green (wet) black cherry logs up a 45deg. slope. It got 'em to the top, but it doesn't have the power even with a snatch block to get them over the lip of the hill. Damn I need a 4WD tractor! Wish I could convince him to sell the CASE for a MF or Allis, or anything for that matter. Its more than we'll ever need running a bushhog or drilling post holes. It'll pull a disker or a plow like there's no tomorrow.


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## aquan8tor (Jun 16, 2007)

Hey Rob, is that an iron stain on the end of those logs? That should make for some nervous milling....


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## dustytools (Jun 16, 2007)

This is the area that I was talking about adding weight to, to cause the stop to lower back down after the log had rolled past it.View attachment 52905


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## curdy (Jun 16, 2007)

dustytools said:


> This is the area that I was talking about adding weight to, to cause the stop to lower back down after the log had rolled past it.View attachment 52905



Dusty, not a bad idea...I'd want those things to come up with authority though...might require more weight than I'd have room for?


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## woodshop (Jun 16, 2007)

aquan8tor said:


> Woodshop, when you get back from milling, I have a question for you; your blocks that you use on the horses and on the jack; I think you said they are black locust, but you have some sort of metal spear-point embedded in there to bite into the log, right?? I tried to look back through old posts but maybe I didn't look far enough. Good luck milling.


The homeowner and I managed to slice that oak butt log into 375 bd ft of boards today, about a third of them quartersawn. Had to make two trips since there was almost 2000 lbs of just boards, plus about 200 lbs of saws and mills etc. (I only have an Astro minivan). Got pics... kinda beat, will post a few tomorrow along with pic of that ramp I was talking about. Aquinator, those chock blocks you ask about have a piece of angle iron on the top edge, mostly to prevent wear of the wooden blocks where they contack the logs. Couple good closeup pics are in this thread. 

http://arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=37392&highlight=woodshop+horses


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## Sawyer Rob (Jun 17, 2007)

> Hey Rob, is that an iron stain on the end of those logs? That should make for some nervous milling....



Nope, i didn't hit any trash in any of those logs... I still have a few short ones around waiting to be sawn into stickers though..

Rob


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## woodshop (Jun 17, 2007)

curdy said:


> Well, I stand corrected. Thanks for the clarification! I guess I was just picturing the post you had on that large white oak you cut up. Can you post some pics of those ramps?



Wasn't correcting... just letting folks know there are other ways to get that jack under logs less than 24 inches. Here is that ramp I was talking about... I roll one end of the log up onto the ramp. I designed a slight dip in the top where the log sits so once you get it there, it won't roll off. That gets the log up off the ground enough to get the jack under. Jack up one end of log, slide first horse under... jack up other end and slide other horse under. It's now up off the ground, and your back and knees will thank you if not now, years down the road.


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## CaseyForrest (Jun 17, 2007)

curdy said:


> Dusty, not a bad idea...I'd want those things to come up with authority though...might require more weight than I'd have room for?



You wouldnt need to add weight if you move your pivot point closer to the end you want agaisnt the log. It would accomplish the same thing as adding weight, without having to do so. It would also allow you to not need springs.

You can also eliminate the stops as your teeth will stop on ther own once they bottom out in the beam. As long as your pivot is stout enough to handle the load.

You might want to rethink the H-beam. Getting a piece light enough that you can move by hand will not give you much room between the top, bottom plates and web.

Do you have a weight limit??? That will determine what you can build and if what you want can take what you want to do to it.

EDIT: Just had an idea.

Keep your H beam, but everywhere you want to place a stop, notch a hole in the web that will allow the tooth to go deeper in the beam. This will allow you to make a longer tooth, and keep more weight on the end you want to fall down. You wont lose any strength doing so as the top and bottom plate carry about 90% of the load.


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## CaseyForrest (Jun 17, 2007)

Like this...move your pivots to where the red dots are. And notch your web to allow a longer tooth to fall....

Sorry for the primitive drawing.


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## curdy (Jun 19, 2007)

Hey Casey, yeah, I was beginning to think that weight would be an issue as well. 

Ya know, I think this is another classic example of using other people's experience. Woodshop has thought this through a lot, and if there was a much faster way on a budget, he'd most likely be doing it that way. I know his humble spirit would make him the first to say that just because he does it one way, doesn't mean its the only way. But the more I think about this situation I realize that he's got it pretty well figured out.

I'll tackle this project later...for now, I need to get out and get a better floor jack!

Thanks for the insight everyone!

Oh, and by the way, be careful going on the Wood-Mizer website...I find myself strangely drawn to it. I tried to resist, but I had to call and request information. Yesterday I opened the mail to find a full product line video with a complimentary bag of popcorn in there...I'm in trouble...opcorn:


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