# Grade my purchse?



## Alessio (Jan 10, 2013)

Hello everyone,

(My apologies if this should have been posted in recreational climbing)

For having close to zero experience and even less knowledge I feel pretty good about this list. 

Silky Ibuki 390 Hand Saw
Petzl Cordex Rope Gloves
Kask Super Plasma Helmet
Edelrid Rope Caddy
Petzl Jet Throw Weight
Buckingham Mini Line Mug
Yale Long Shot Throw Line
Yale Maxi-Flip Sport System - 10' System
ISC HMS Non-Locking Carabiner
Petzl Caritool
Buckingham Tear Away Chainsaw Lanyard - Steel Ring
TreeMotion Harness
Tree Climber's Companion
DMM Aero Bent Carabiner
ISC HMS SuperSafe Carabiner
Rock Exotica RockD Carabiner
Rock Exotica Pirate Carabiner
Petzl Am'D Triact Carabiner
Ocean Polyester Split Tail
Samson Velocity "Cool" 11mm Climbing Rope - Eye Splice
Samson Velocity "Cool" 11mm Climbing Rope - 150' Length
Metolius Crag Station Climbing Pack
Anchor Bridge Climbing System
DMM Aluminum Anchor Ring - 40mm Ring

I climbed a summer for Casey Roland in the mid 90's and based most of this list on memory.
I will be installing a line of sight internet connection from the top of the residence on a hill down to the winery's rooftop in the valley and there are thirteen 30' live oaks that will need to have about 3' taken off their tops. I'll probably take 6' to give my self a few years in between trimming. 
I could have sub'd this out but I wanted have the equipment for attending to the occasional broken limb and also acquiring fledgling hawks for falconry.

I plan on climbing drt with a Blake's hitch (I've been tying it for a few weeks so I'm confident it won't be a suicide hitch). Here is where I'd like your advice. (The Tree Climber's Companion along with all the above gear arrived today and I'll start reading tonight). 

To start, should I tie the climb line to the floating bridge and use the tail to tie the Blake's hitch and figure 8 stopper? I've seen a ton of videos where people tie their climb line to their saddle with a Bowline. That doesn't seem like a safe use of a Bowline to me, what would you guys tie there? I've also seen people tie in with a Clove hitch which at least seems better than Bowline but to me an anchor hitch seems better than either of those. Or should I save my climbline and start with putting a carabiner through the climbline's tight eye and onto the floating bridge. Then put another ring on the floating bridge to attach a second carabiner for the split tail's tight eye and use that to tie my Blake's hitch?

Also with this configuration would you footlock or F the sky to ascend?

Thank you for any and all advice (aside from hire an arborist).


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## Pelorus (Jan 10, 2013)

Read your Tree Climber's Companion. Read it several times.
You got a heck of a lot of gear for climbing 30' trees; a 20 - 24' ladder would replace 90% of it for what you are doing. 
A Petzl or CMI foot ascender might make your life easier.
Please also familiarize yourself with proper pruning techniques so that you don't commit hackery in the tree tops.


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## Alessio (Jan 10, 2013)

Pelorus said:


> You got a heck of a lot of gear for climbing 30' trees; a 20 - 24' ladder would replace 90% of it for what you are doing.



Some of the trees are larger, the hillside has a 70 degree slope and I don't see many raptor nests 30' off the ground. 



Pelorus said:


> Please also familiarize yourself with proper pruning techniques so that you don't commit hackery in the tree tops.



I'm pretty dialed on pruning. I've gone back and looked at a lot of my cuts and the collars have closed up nicely. Not a bad idea though, I'm sure there are new thoughts and techniques out there, I'll read up on it.


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## Pelorus (Jan 10, 2013)

The antenna / dish / receiver thingy on the winery rooftop couldn't just be raised 6'? Guess not...


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## Alessio (Jan 10, 2013)

Pelorus said:


> The antenna / dish / receiver thingy on the winery rooftop couldn't just be raised 6'? Guess not...



I feel so silly right now. Do you think Luke @ Tree Stuff will take all of this back? Kidding... the mansion and winery are Michael Graves designed structures with historical significance so no "hey what's that" stuff can be mounted or attached to them. By mounting the equipment atop the turrets they will have a clear line of sight to one another but be invisible from the ground.


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## Pelorus (Jan 10, 2013)

Doing tree work on a 70 degree mountain goat slope sounds sporty. :msp_scared:
Hope you are charging an outrageous amount of $$$.
Please post some photos!


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## Nemus Talea (Jan 10, 2013)

Some nice kit! Silky saw shows that you're serious. Do you have a cambium saver or friction saver? (maybe I missed it) Get an extra throw bag.
Search the net and buy some books related to tree assessment and tree biology. A little info could keep you alive or improve work quality.
Study that guide, inspect the gear, do some low non-working climbs, don't climb alone.
Single loop foot lock is handy single lock foot loop or single loop foot lock - YouTube


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## flushcut (Jan 11, 2013)

How about putting up a TV tower instead of topping some live oaks wich add to the properties $ value and historical value. Here on some of the lake homes on Lake Geneva you need to clear a lot of red tape before you can even touch some of the trees that are on the historical register, and topping them would never be allowed.


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## Alessio (Jan 11, 2013)

flushcut said:


> How about putting up a TV tower instead of topping some live oaks wich add to the properties $ value and historical value. Here on some of the lake homes on Lake Geneva you need to clear a lot of red tape before you can even touch some of the trees that are on the historical register, and topping them would never be allowed.



They have all been topped twice in the past 25 years for view's sake. We have had every type of business internet provider out here and this is the only option that will work/make sense. Although @[email protected] said if we pay for them bury a line that would tie in 7 miles away we'd be good to go.


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## Alessio (Jan 11, 2013)

Nemus Talea said:


> Some nice kit! Silky saw shows that you're serious.



Or that I like shiny objects.



Nemus Talea said:


> Do you have a cambium saver or friction saver? (maybe I missed it)



I'll look that up.



Nemus Talea said:


> Get an extra throw bag.



I got this one because it was small and clips onto your saddle for repositioning. What scenario would a second one come in handy? Sorry drawing a blank.



Nemus Talea said:


> Search the net and buy some books related to tree assessment and tree biology. A little info could keep you alive or improve work quality.
> Study that guide, inspect the gear, do some low non-working climbs, don't climb alone.
> Single loop foot lock is handy. Single lock foot loop or single loop foot lock -



Good idea, thank you. I'm going to do several rec. ascents over the next few weeks before I incorporate a chainsaw.


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## Tree Pig (Jan 11, 2013)

Nemus Talea said:


> Get an extra throw bag.
> 
> 
> Alessio said:
> ...


Your either kidding, too stupid to climb or a troll... I am going with troll.

:notrolls2:


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## Alessio (Jan 11, 2013)

Tree Pig said:


> Your either kidding, too stupid to climb or a troll... I am going with troll.
> 
> :notrolls2:



lol What a #####. You're either a complete waste of space, too stupid to articulately convey your thoughts and feelings or just found out your wife is cheating on you... I am going with all three, and it's "you're" not "your". Thanks for the warm welcome.


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## Tree Pig (Jan 11, 2013)

Alessio said:


> lol What a #####. You're either a complete waste of space, too stupid to articulately convey your thoughts and feelings or just found out your wife is cheating on you... I am going with all three, and it's "you're" not "your". Thanks for the warm welcome.



well that narrows it down to choice two or three. Since you do not have enough knowledge to know why you would need more then 1 throw bag you have no business climbing and cutting a tree. But you go right ahead Ill be looking for a post about you in the tree related injuries & fatalities section... this is not like landscaping, were you can just go buy a few rakes, a shovel and some lawn signs and go to work.


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## Zale (Jan 11, 2013)

Buy at least 2 more throwbags. After you get the first one stuck, its good to have backups. Good luck throwing on a 70 degree hill.


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## Alessio (Jan 11, 2013)

Tree Pig said:


> well that narrows it down to choice two or three. Since you do not have enough knowledge to know why you would need more then 1 throw bag you have no business climbing and cutting a tree. But you go right ahead Ill be looking for a post about you in the tree related injuries & fatalities section... this is not like landscaping, were you can just go buy a few rakes, a shovel and some lawn signs and go to work.



Meybe if i tipe lyke this it'll mayke ewe feel moore cumfertable.


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## Alessio (Jan 11, 2013)

Zale said:


> Buy at least 2 more throwbags. After you get the first one stuck, its good to have backups. Good luck throwing on a 70 degree hill.



I just ordered two more and a Weaver cambium saver. Is a fisherman's knot or clove hitch good to attach the throw weight?


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## Tree Pig (Jan 11, 2013)

Alessio said:


> I just ordered two more and a Weaver cambium saver. Is a fisherman's knot or clove hitch good to attach the throw weight?



yeah tie a clove hitch... then buy them by the dozen because your going to leave quite a few in the tree. :msp_thumbdn::bang::jester:


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## Pelorus (Jan 11, 2013)

Alessio said:


> I just ordered two more and a Weaver cambium saver. Is a fisherman's knot or clove hitch good to attach the throw weight?




Attach your bag (throwbag) to your throwline with a fisherman's knot. Pull it good and tight! The two will form a close loving relationship that can be torn asunder by Uncle Buck or his cousin Spyderco. I prefer using a bowline.


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## Nemus Talea (Jan 11, 2013)

Alessio said:


> I just ordered two more and a Weaver cambium saver. Is a fisherman's knot or clove hitch good to attach the throw weight?



Different weights are useful. Height, short advances, rough bark, etc... will dictate. 16oz - 10oz.
Weaver works fine as long as limb radius is big enough. Mine is tough to place and retrieve in tight crotches with rough bark, gonna get a dan house rope sleeve soon.
Throw weight attachment? Any line termination knot will do but i would suggest anchor or buntline hitch. Untie easy even if violently yanked.
Its all covered in "the tree climbers companion" so when you get it, read it. Maybe read it twice, as it has allot of info stuffed in a small package.

Live oaks were previously topped? Must look horrible. What diameter are the trunks? Age? Other than the tops being mutilated, are they healthy? Why not remove them if they are so in the way?


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## Nemus Talea (Jan 11, 2013)

Pelorus said:


> Attach your bag (throwbag) to your throwline with a fisherman's knot. Pull it good and tight! The two will form a close loving relationship that can be torn asunder by Uncle Buck or his cousin Spyderco. I prefer using a bowline.



Dang, thats funny!


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## Pelorus (Jan 11, 2013)

cell tower trees - Google Search


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## jefflovstrom (Jan 11, 2013)

Come on guy's!

:spam:

Maybe it's me, but,,,,


:notrolls2:

Jeff


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## KenJax Tree (Jan 11, 2013)

This thread is official, Jeff has spoken.

The bait is good but i'm not biting


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## jefflovstrom (Jan 11, 2013)

KenJax Tree said:


> This thread is official, Jeff has spoken.
> 
> The bait is good but i'm not biting



Maybe I was harsh and not wanting to be, I should just say, 
Too many red flag's, 
The whole thing seems strange,, 
I quess it was the way the OP went into attack mode when asked question's.
I could change my mind tho if he took a 'Go-Pro'.
Jeff :msp_confused:


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## Pelorus (Jan 11, 2013)

C'mon Jeff. It's gotta be legit if there are 7 different biners, a line mug, and 13 trees to top on a 70 degree hillside.
You just don't make this stuff up unless you are a scriptwriter for Seinfeld.


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## KenJax Tree (Jan 11, 2013)

jefflovstrom said:


> Maybe I was harsh and not wanting to be, I should just say,
> Too many red flag's,
> The whole thing seems strange,,
> I quess it was the way the OP went into attack mode when asked question's.
> ...



My guess is i probably wouldn't wanna watch anymore after all the throw bag were stuck.


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## KenJax Tree (Jan 11, 2013)

Pelorus said:


> C'mon Jeff. It's gotta be legit if there are 7 different biners, a line mug, and 13 trees to top on a 70 degree hillside.
> You just don't make this stuff up unless you are a scriptwriter for Seinfeld.



Yeah plus its on the internet, its gotta be real.


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## jefflovstrom (Jan 11, 2013)

Pelorus said:


> C'mon Jeff. It's gotta be legit if there are 7 different biners, a line mug, and 13 trees to top on a 70 degree hillside.
> You just don't make this stuff up unless you are a scriptwriter for Seinfeld.



Ha ha! Good one,,I may be wrong, but if he is for real he would prove it. I have met many site manager's that think our job can be done cheaper,, just make a shopping list and watch some you tube, bang!
Jeff

Someone did not get a Christmas bonus and is now trying to look good to the boss,, maybe.


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## Tree Pig (Jan 11, 2013)

KenJax Tree said:


> Yeah plus its on the internet, its gotta be real.


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## KenJax Tree (Jan 11, 2013)

Tree Pig said:


>



YES!! The French model


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## jefflovstrom (Jan 11, 2013)

We aint done,
here he come.
Jeff


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## Alessio (Jan 11, 2013)

I feel like Keanu Reeves in Point Break when he inadvertently pisses off all the surfers because he was so etiquette ignorant. My apologies. When I worked that summer with a [email protected] certified arborist he had me cleaning monster agrifolia and kelloggii, I don't remember having more than one throw bag, guess he had more in his truck. He spent a lot of time teaching me how to not davey tree and I still prune the way he taught me. I understand I'm asking you guys to help me take money out of your pockets but this site seemed pretty d.i.y. friendly from the other posts I've read. You are all bad @sses and this is an awesome industry I wish I had stuck with.


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## jefflovstrom (Jan 11, 2013)

Alessio said:


> I feel like Keanu Reeves in Point Break when he inadvertently pisses off all the surfers because he was so etiquette ignorant. My apologies. When I worked that summer with a [email protected] certified arborist he had me cleaning monster agrifolia and kelloggii, I don't remember having more than one throw bag, guess he had more in his truck. He spent a lot of time teaching me how to not davey tree and I still prune the way he taught me. I understand I'm asking you guys to help me take money out of your pockets but this site seemed pretty d.i.y. friendly from the other posts I've read. You are all bad @sses and this is an awesome industry I wish I had stuck with.



That's what I would say!
You come off pretty condescending for a dude asking question's.
Anyway, I still think you are a Troll,,,sorry, 
Jeff :msp_biggrin:


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## Alessio (Jan 11, 2013)

Nemus Talea said:


> Live oaks were previously topped? Must look horrible. What diameter are the trunks? Age? Other than the tops being mutilated, are they healthy? Why not remove them if they are so in the way?



The house is on top of a volcanic knoll. It is mostly rock with very little soil so the trees seem to be stunted or dwarfed. Whom ever topped them previously did a decent job as they look natural still. Trunk diameters range from 15" - 24". The property would look worse if they were removed. When you look out from the terraces your views of the valley are now blocked from the trees so after these 13 I'll begin addressing some of the others. One of the many things I was never taught as it never arose; when you prune back to a previous cut would go to the next node on the truck side of the original cut? It seems like if you kept pruning in that manner you would eventually have a telephone pole.


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## Pelorus (Jan 11, 2013)

Alessio said:


> I understand I'm asking you guys to help me take money out of your pockets .



I'm more than happy to refer work to you involving topping trees on grades steeper than 65 degrees! I've pretty much priced myself right outta that market.


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## Alessio (Jan 11, 2013)

Pelorus said:


> C'mon Jeff. It's gotta be legit if there are 7 different biners, a line mug, and 13 trees to top on a 70 degree hillside.
> You just don't make this stuff up unless you are a scriptwriter for Seinfeld.



How am I to know which biners I'll like if I only buy two?


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## Pelorus (Jan 11, 2013)

Alessio said:


> It seems like if you kept pruning in that manner you would eventually have a telephone pole.



I don't think oaks respond well to telephone pole pruning, but maybe these are the kind that have built up some tolerance for the procedure. Please post before and after pics...please.


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## Pelorus (Jan 11, 2013)

Alessio said:


> How am I to know which biners I'll like if I only buy two?
> 
> Well you only bought two ropes, right?


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## KenJax Tree (Jan 11, 2013)

Pelorus said:


> Alessio said:
> 
> 
> > How am I to know which biners I'll like if I only buy two?
> ...


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## 2treeornot2tree (Jan 12, 2013)

Its ok, he stayed at a holiday in last night!

Sounds like these oaks have some pretty big trunks for only being 30' high.


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## Carburetorless (Jan 12, 2013)

Alessio said:


> lol What a #####. You're either a complete waste of space, too stupid to articulately convey your thoughts and feelings or just found out your wife is cheating on you... I am going with all three, and it's "you're" not "your". Thanks for the warm welcome.



No way man, he found out his wife was cheating on him years ago, but you can't expect him to be mad at his sister. :msp_w00t:

opcorn:


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## Carburetorless (Jan 12, 2013)

Alessio said:


> I just ordered two more and a Weaver cambium saver. Is a fisherman's knot or clove hitch good to attach the throw weight?



A Fisherman's Bend would be better.


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## smokey01 (Jan 12, 2013)

Alessio said:


> ....Is a fisherman's knot or clove hitch good to attach the throw weight?


One way I attach the throw weight is with a simple girth hitch leaving about 5 inches of tail. I do not fuse the end of the throw line, this way, if It gets stuck in the tree I can give it some persistent pulls and the tail will pull thru the girth hitch and drop the throw weight back to the ground so I can recover the throw line and try again. If I'm in the tree and do not want to run the chance of having my throw weight come loose, I will tie a bowline loop and girth hitch that to the throw weight. As you can see there are many ways to get the job done. 

Girth hitch


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## Alessio (Jan 12, 2013)

smokey01 said:


> One way I attach the throw weight is with a simple girth hitch leaving about 5 inches of tail. I do not fuse the end of the throw line, this way, if It gets stuck in the tree I can give it some persistent pulls and the tail will pull thru the girth hitch and drop the throw weight back to the ground so I can recover the throw line and try again. If I'm in the tree and do not want to run the chance of having my throw weight come loose, I will tie a bowline loop and girth hitch that to the throw weight. As you can see there are many ways to get the job done.
> 
> Girth hitch



Makes perfect sense, thank you. I'm about 10 pages into the Tree Climber's Companion. I'll quit asking questions until I've read it twice.


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## Pelorus (Jan 12, 2013)

2treeornot2tree said:


> Its ok, he stayed at a holiday in last night!
> 
> Sounds like these oaks have some pretty big trunks for only being 30' high.




They would be taller if Bonsai Bob didn't top them periodically.


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## Grouchy old man (Jan 12, 2013)

Alessio said:


> They have all been topped twice in the past 25 years for view's sake. We have had every type of business internet provider out here and this is the only option that will work/make sense. Although @[email protected] said if we pay for them bury a line that would tie in 7 miles away we'd be good to go.



After being the telecom business for many years I can tell you that the computer geeks working for those internet service providers aren't the sharpest tools in the shed. Unless you have a permanent and clear line of sight, terrestrial microwave is going to be nothing but a headache. You can trim all you want but trees grow. When something pops up along the path you're going to be pulling your hair out finding it. What you suggest just isn't practical. As has been suggested either get them up higher to begin with or find another solution. You mention Comcast has offered to bury a line. You do realize that you don't have to have Comcast do it, you can hire your own contractor probably for less. I would suggest fiber, and does it really have to be buried all the way?


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## Alessio (Jan 12, 2013)

Grouchy old man said:


> After being the telecom business for many years I can tell you that the computer geeks working for those internet service providers aren't the sharpest tools in the shed. Unless you have a permanent and clear line of sight, terrestrial microwave is going to be nothing but a headache. You can trim all you want but trees grow. When something pops up along the path you're going to be pulling your hair out finding it. What you suggest just isn't practical. As has been suggested either get them up higher to begin with or find another solution. You mention Comcast has offered to bury a line. You do realize that you don't have to have Comcast do it, you can hire your own contractor probably for less. I would suggest fiber, and does it really have to be buried all the way?



My understanding is the county is phasing out poles and you are no longer able to add to them. All new lines and large repairs are being trenched. Comcast is getting closer to us every year but are still 7 miles away and was 10 miles away two years ago. Even if it weren't for the line of sight connection the trees would still be compromised for the view. It sucks that everyone wants to build right up against the tree line, then massacre it so they can see what they moved away from.


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## Grouchy old man (Jan 12, 2013)

Where is your link coming from? Doesn't sound like it's 7 miles away. It has to be from a building that already has internet service? How are the other utilities run- phone and electric and how far? I have used DSL equipment and the existing buried phone cable to piggy back the computer network and internet over to another building about a mile away. It is capable of 10+ miles of cable. Something to consider.


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## jefflovstrom (Jan 12, 2013)

Grouchy old man said:


> Where is your link coming from? Doesn't sound like it's 7 miles away. It has to be from a building that already has internet service? How are the other utilities run- phone and electric and how far? I have used DSL equipment and the existing buried phone cable to piggy back the computer network and internet over to another building about a mile away. It is capable of 10+ miles of cable. Something to consider.



Hey Grouchy, he is a troll,, 
Jeff


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## Tree Pig (Jan 12, 2013)

jefflovstrom said:


> Hey Grouchy, he is a troll,,
> Jeff


 
So then my wife isnt cheating on me? and its not my sister?


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## Alessio (Jan 12, 2013)

Grouchy old man said:


> Where is your link coming from? Doesn't sound like it's 7 miles away. It has to be from a building that already has internet service? How are the other utilities run- phone and electric and how far? I have used DSL equipment and the existing buried phone cable to piggy back the computer network and internet over to another building about a mile away. It is capable of 10+ miles of cable. Something to consider.



The residence is on a volcanic knoll in the valley. Between two other larger knolls there is a clear shot to a tower on the mountain. I'm guessing in the 10ish miles away range. Nothing needs to be trimmed from that shot but from the residence to the winery is the shot that needs some pruning. Our other utilities come from the pole across the street.


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## Alessio (Jan 12, 2013)

jefflovstrom said:


> Hey Grouchy, he is a troll,,
> Jeff



I'm not sure what a troll is but I'm pretty sure if you continually called me that in person it wouldn't turn out well for either of us. Be it as it may, in here you can and I'm sure will call me what ever you please.


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## Carburetorless (Jan 12, 2013)

Alessio said:


> The residence is on a volcanic knoll in the valley. Between two other larger knolls there is a clear shot to a tower on the mountain. I'm guessing in the 10ish miles away range. Nothing needs to be trimmed from that shot but from the residence to the winery is the shot that needs some pruning. Our other utilities come from the pole across the street.



You might save yourself a lot of future pruning if you remove some of the trees so you have a clear field of fire.


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## Carburetorless (Jan 12, 2013)

Tree Pig said:


> So then my wife isnt cheating on me? and its not my sister?



No, your wife isn't cheating on you with your sister, at least not yet.

I used to work with a guy who caught his wife in bed with another woman. He was furious. I never understood that, cause it's always been a fantasy of mine to catch my girlfriend in bed with another woman.

But I digress.


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## Tree Pig (Jan 12, 2013)

Alessio said:


> I'm not sure what a troll is but I'm pretty sure if you continually called me that in person it wouldn't turn out well for either of us. Be it as it may, in here you can and I'm sure will call me what ever you please.



I bet I could call you it in person too tough guy... lol Troll 

here is a pic of me


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## flushcut (Jan 13, 2013)




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## Alessio (Jan 14, 2013)

Tree Pig said:


> I bet I could call you it in person too tough guy... lol Troll
> 
> here is a pic of me




Where did you get a picture of my fiance?


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