# Trencher converted to mini skidder?



## bigblue12v

I found some info on another tree related forum (idk if I can mention its name here?) Anyway, I'm picking up an ugly old Vermeer trencher for peanuts and the only attachment left on it is the blade. Previous owners scrapped the trencher bar and current owner is keeping backhoe attachment. He says it's a Perkins 4 cylinder diesel and narrow Dana 60 axles. All I know is it's badass and the minute I laid eyes on it in February I said I want it and I wanna make a small log skidder out of it! He finally said he would sell it to me for what he had in it if he could keep the backhoe attachment. I have a 10k winch to put on it. 
Anyone else here done this?! I'm all about some pictures if so! This is only picture I have of this one right now. Hopefully picking it up tomorrow.


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## Marshy

I'd love to have something like that around the property to bring in the firewood with. Maybe even take it short distances to clean up people woods. I would take agood look at the frame, might even want to reinforce it in areas before subjecting it to abuse.


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## rwoods

Don't waste the existing hydraulics - go with a hydraulic winch and maybe a small rear boom. I have mulled over in my mind many times making a small skidder from one of those for level ground recreational skidding. But I have too many unfinished projects and junk. ROPS would be nice. Don't forget that they are pretty heavy despite the compact size. Ron


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## fordf150

i have thought of the same thing. i want to see pictures of this build and what the finished machine is capable of.


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## bigblue12v

Right now it has to stay low budget. The winch I have is electric. Maybe later I can go hydraulic but for now it's run what ya brung. Today got nixed but tomorrow morning I'm planning to go get it. Trying to get it before he changes his mind lol. I'm just using it for my firewood gathering, personal use, so I can't justify sinking a lot of money in it at once. I'm overall pretty clueless about skidders in general so I don't really know what to fashion it after. My girlfriends brother is starting a logging business and has a John Deere skidder it sounds like I would benefit from talking him into letting me work with them and see what is good and bad ideas to use and learn how they are used in real life. His doesn't have a grapple, mine won't either for now.


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## bigblue12v

Got it home today! I have the steps, guards, blade, ROPS, etc for it all in a pile here... Some assembly required. Starts and runs good and is a blast to drive. Needs something fixed in the hydraulic steering. Don't have time to mess with it right now. But here are some pictures! It's a Vermeer 440 steers on front axle not articulated


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## fordf150




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## johnny5ny

Some suitcase weights on the front and that thing should pull whatever you want out of the woods...
Looks like a fun project!


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## Marshy

Awesome man, that will be a great tool with some work. I think if you spent some time on a real skidder you would see how superior articulating equipment can be but, for what it is you have a great platform to build on.


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## redfin

A removable splitter off the hydraulics would be cool.


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## bigblue12v

Marshy said:


> Awesome man, that will be a great tool with some work. I think if you spent some time on a real skidder you would see how superior articulating equipment can be but, for what it is you have a great platform to build on.


Yea my gf's bro has a Deere 440 I think and I need to ride along to see what it's all about. 


redfin said:


> A removable splitter off the hydraulics would be cool.


I have a couple splitters already, one is an attachment I built for a front mower. It could be set up on this but I don't think I have any use for that really right now. Good thinking though.


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## bigblue12v

Haven't had much time to mess with the beast but I've found out why my hydraulic wheel drive mode is inoperative. The hydraulic motor for the wheels has been disconnected, I'm assuming due to a past failure in that system. I really have no use for repairing that in my mind since creeping speeds won't be of much use to me. However if I ever wanted to use the rear PTO it only works when shifted into hydraulic drive mode so I have to halt ground travel to run the PTO but I could set it up to do both at same time I suppose. Doing that would make it only work when in motion though. I do have rear hydraulic lines for trencher raise/lower cylinder, so if I can get hold of a hydraulic winch those could be used to power it. I really like the idea of a hydraulic winch but for right now it's money I don't have to spend. Just need to get the charging system working properly. As for the standard hydraulic pump, it gets really hot while not seeming to produce any hydraulic power so hopefully it just needs rebuilt. Might get to tear into it tomorrow. I bolted the steps and roll bar back on using all new grade 8 bolts. After fixing hydraulics and reinstalling the blade, I'll build a proper roll cage with the up rights going off the blade push frame upward on the front of machine then to the rear roll bar at an angle, with sheet metal roof and some expanded metal caging for protection. Should look pretty sweet when done.


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## redfin

Do you have any idea what ratio gear set is in it? Are the axles spooled? I'm just being nosey, sorry but it looks like a fun project.


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## bigblue12v

also extended and angled the shifter so it keeps my knuckles out of the dash! 
posing with my home brew 4 wheel drive garden tractor it is replacing


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## bigblue12v

redfin said:


> Do you have any idea what ratio gear set is in it? Are the axles spooled? I'm just being nosey, sorry but it looks like a fun project.


Your nosiness don't bother me, i would be just as nosey myself if I were you lol

I have no idea of gear ratio. Low, because wound out in third gear is a whopping 7-8 mph maybe ten tops. There's no gear box just chain and sprocket sets for reduction from trans to axles. The whole machine is insanely simple. C channel frame rails, rear axle solid mounted, front on a pivot like a tractor. Engine, 4 speed trans with output shaft with sprocket going to jack shaft with large sprocket, next to it a small one running a large one again mounted on rear axle pinion (lots of gear reduction in the sprockets), one driveshaft connecting the axles, a pair of love joys with a shifter to shift from ground drive only (straight drive via transmission) to hydraulic drive and PTO mode. And the engine has belt drive PTO pump that powers steering, dozer blade, and other lines that would run backhoe and trencher bar raise/lower. Battery under left foot, hydraulic and fuel tanks in fenders. Mechanical fuel gauge. Pull cable for engine shut off. Push button to engage starter solenoid. What looks like a GM internally regulated alternator. Mechanical pinion disk brake. Mechanical clutch no hydraulics. Don't know if I mentioned it but I've found out that the Perkins diesel is rated at 57hp.

I think it's spooled front and rear but haven't got that far. One day I'm going to power wash it and then I'll turn the front tires around the right way. Figure out charging system and mount winch on back, rebuild pump hopefully that's it and she'll be ready to go start pulling some timber! 
I also made a new bracket to hold the muffler better, although I'm thinking about a vertical stack once the cage is done. Can't wait to play with this thing!


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## Marshy

Depends on how much low hanging stuff your going to be driving through. I think the best exhaust would be up over the cab roof like most skidders have. Run the pipe on the inside next to the roll bar that goes from the front of the tractor to the top of the ROP so I doesn't get banged up.


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## bigblue12v

Doubt I drive through a lot of low stuff but never know I guess? Lol


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## bigblue12v

For a machine this size, is a grapple or cable winch setup more effective? Seems like only the big skidders have a grapple and smaller machines are cable style which kind of makes sense as it gives them a way to overcome their smaller size, slacking the cable to drive just the machine through areas they might not pull logs through and then pulling the logs back to them. 
Am I on the right track?


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## Marshy

bigblue12v said:


> For a machine this size, is a grapple or cable winch setup more effective? Seems like only the big skidders have a grapple and smaller machines are cable style which kind of makes sense as it gives them a way to overcome their smaller size, slacking the cable to drive just the machine through areas they might not pull logs through and then pulling the logs back to them.
> Am I on the right track?


I agree. I personally would stick with a cable winch for a machine this size. It would add the least amount of weigh to the machine too if it matters.


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## bigblue12v

Marshy said:


> I agree. I personally would stick with a cable winch for a machine this size. It would add the least amount of weigh to the machine too if it matters.


Why light weight? I'd think more weight would help?


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## Marshy

I'm no expert, it all depends I suppose. More weight would help when you're winching a load but a heavier machine in general means more impact to the forest floor. A lighter machine sometimes fairs better in soft ground. I suppose there are trade offs to each but the extra weight might be negligible in your case.


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## bigblue12v

True, as wide as the tires are on this and no more than it weighs I wouldn't be too worried about impact. 31x15.50 tires and it's no more than 3,000# right now.


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## fordf150

i am always wishing i had more weight. new holland tc40. 4wd tractor, FEL, 2 sets of rear weights. she weighs in at around 4000lb and so far i have never found a time when i wished it weighed less. when the tires were loaded which added another 1000lbs to it i thought it pulled pretty good but still thought it needed more weight. i unloaded the tires because i was always making a trip to the tire shop to have them patched and since getting rid of the washer fluid i havent had a single flat tire on the rear.


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## fordf150

when i hook onto a big log or a couple smaller logs i will go get a scoop of dirt in the bucket to add another 1000lb to the front end to help it pull better. 4000lb isnt enough weight to pull even a decent sized tree up hill. i never have trouble with the front end getting light. it doesnt get enough traction to lift it even without the bucket full. i have all the parts rounded up to make a log winch for the 3 point. 10000 lb hydraulic winch. hopefully getting the logs right up against the back will help. right now i pull logs with the grader blade on so i can chain them up tight to it and get a little lift on them to keep the ends from digging into the ground.


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## bigblue12v

Thanks f150, good to hear from someone with a machine somewhat comparable to mine. I'm using it for firewood work so cutting the logs to a shorter length is a given, that'll make weight of timber a bit more manageable.


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## fordf150

i will try to get a couple pictures of one of my normal hitches of logs. i need to get in the woods and drag a couple out for the sawmill this weekend. probably going to be smaller than my normal loads since it is so wet but will still give you an idea of what a 4000lb 4wd tractor can pull on a flat to to very mild grades.


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## bigblue12v

fordf150 said:


> i will try to get a couple pictures of one of my normal hitches of logs. i need to get in the woods and drag a couple out for the sawmill this weekend. probably going to be smaller than my normal loads since it is so wet but will still give you an idea of what a 4000lb 4wd tractor can pull on a flat to to very mild grades.


Thanks! I still need to mount the blade and sort out some hydraulic stuff, haven't had time to mess with this thing. I am whittling away at it a little bit but too many irons in the fire. Need to get it done though I have a project for it. Between the blade, loading tires, building a cage, saw holder, small toolbox, winch and chains, etc., I'm sure I can get it to around 4,000 easily. But your tractor still has the advantage of the loader and wheel base being longer, where you can add more weight up front. I think if my winch is mounted higher I can get more leverage on the back from the log weight. At 57hp I don't think power is going to be an issue for me even if I got it close to 5,000# somehow. Tire chains would be awesome although I'd have to build my own and that'd be a pretty good project lol. Budget is tight on this thing right now so it's going to be minimal mods for now. That's OK gives me a chance to use it as it is so this winter I can get it in the shop and know exactly what I want to do differently on it!


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## fordf150

http://www.tractordata.com/farm-tractors/003/1/0/3100-new-holland-tc40.html there is the specs on my tractor to make a comparison to it. i have 40hp. 16.9x24 rear and 10x16.5 front tires. rears are ag tires and the front are skid steer tires because the factory 7x16 ag tires provided better traction but with the FEL those narrow aggressive tires dug in and sunk to easily so i switched it out to the skid steer tires.


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## bigblue12v

Those boomers are really nice looking tractors! Your narrow tires surely get better bite than my flotation tires. They're 15" 8 lug rims and the axles look like narrow Dana 60 truck axles so I potentially have a lot of options, clearance against the machine is my only obstacle. I could easily run a 33x12.50 truck tire or equivalent ag tire. A 35" would be even better. Super Swamper makes a 34x10.50 LTB that I've had a set of before with no complaints. But I prefer to stick with Ag tread, they're made for low speed traction. Truck tires need to spin fast to clean out. AGS naturally clean and dig at a slow speed. But I have no idea what my options are with Ag tire sizes. I'm sure something is out there if I ever resize.


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## fordf150

there is a small load. rained all night here so i kept it small. I could pull that up hill through the woods in 4wd and once i made it to the skid trail I've been using for the last year i switched to 2wd and only had to lock the diff on the uphill sections.


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## bigblue12v

Shoot that's not a bad lookin load. My diff's are locked full time. Which is great until you get it stuck because then you have no plan B lol!


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## 06switchback

I'm liking your mini skid idea my tractor is far lighter than either in this at about 2000# plus the loader and have no problem pulling firewood






If I can't hook the log close enough to lift the end I put on another 800# ballast box
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk


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## bigblue12v

06switchback said:


> I'm liking your mini skid idea my tractor is far lighter than either in this at about 2000# plus the loader and have no problem pulling firewood
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I can't hook the log close enough to lift the end I put on another 800# ballast box
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk


Dang that's a good load for such a light machine! I used that lawn boy 4wd garden tractor I posted pic of earlier in thread and it impressed me a lot what it would drag with open diff's and only around 1100# with me on it. It'd pull a 12-16" diameter log about 6-8' long through mud and a steep rough creek crossing easily. And I couldn't really pick up the end more than a couple inches.


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## dieselfitter

FWIW, I had some Dana 70 axles from a Ditchwitch. They had 6.17 ratio gears and Powr Loc(limited slip) Differentials. I suspect your Dana 60's are about the same.
Hard to say from the pictures but that looks like a Perkins Model 4.108 engine.


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## bigblue12v

dieselfitter said:


> FWIW, I had some Dana 70 axles from a Ditchwitch. They had 6.17 ratio gears and Powr Loc(limited slip) Differentials. I suspect your Dana 60's are about the same.
> Hard to say from the pictures but that looks like a Perkins Model 4.108 engine.


Not sure that these are 60 or 70 but that's what they look like anyway lol. Open knuckle front. Never saw a 70 front that wasn't closed knuckle in a truck anyway. I'm sure that's about what gears this has. Don't know exactly how they're locked just that they are. Haven't found data tag on engine yet but haven't looked yet either. At least now I know what the number should look like lol that'll help when looking. Thanks!


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## fordf150

It will surprise you what a 4000lb machine can pull but like the load i had on today going up through the leaf litter and over the debris of other tree tops i couldnt go any bigger or it would have been spinning and digging ruts. i usually go double what was on there but the wet ground really hurts pulling capability.


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## rwoods

Get the front of those loads off the ground and you will be surprised how much your little tractors can pull. Ron


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## bigblue12v

fordf150 said:


> It will surprise you what a 4000lb machine can pull but like the load i had on today going up through the leaf litter and over the debris of other tree tops i couldnt go any bigger or it would have been spinning and digging ruts. i usually go double what was on there but the wet ground really hurts pulling capability.


Making me itch to get this thing done!!!! Here's today's load, my brother got a brand new 3046R and we had to break it in proper! Lol took down a handful of small trees next to a shed he is tearing down and man it's nice having a loader tractor around. Even better our friend loaned us his dump trailer to use. Easiest load I've had yet lol.




Yes there's a pile of debris that was a shed under those branches. All going to get burnt then some fill dirt going in, this will be a turn out pasture for his hay burners.


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## bigblue12v

rwoods said:


> Get the front of those loads off the ground and you will be surprised how much your little tractors can pull. Ron


Yea with my garden tractor my (Cat 0) 3 point didn't have enough travel to tighten the chain and lift the log much because since it's a small machine, even raised halfway up is still not very high so it was hard to get the chain tight enough to lift it much. Sometimes I hooked it and got it up enough to throw a piece of wood under the log then tighten the chain up again. Before I got the mini skidder I was thinking of making a small 3 point skidding attachment for the garden tractor with an ATV winch or something but I won't need to use that anymore for skidding. I do use it if I need to cross a soft lawn I'll hook the 4 wheel wagon behind it and throw rounds in wagon. Hate doing it that way but when the ground is that soft some people don't want ruts. Can't blame them much.


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## bigblue12v

Dumped some cash into the tank, new oil and filter, new hydraulic hose, fluid and filter. The hose was collapsed and had an t that had an extra line on it for the backhoe I no longer need. I finally have hydraulic power but have a stuck check valve I think, I have to hold a blade valve to get power steering. The hydraulics are fairly complex on this thing. Trying to line up a hydraulic or at least PTO winch for cheap. I have an electric one but I think that'll require an alternator upgrade because supposedly this one is only 37 amp or so. Not nearly enough to run a winch. I need to really gut the wiring on this thing. The push button starter is the only thing that works. It doesn't charge, no gauges work, no glow plug button, and it seems to have a power draw. Time to rip it all out and start from scratch. Appears to have a gm style internally regulated alternator. I may upgrade to a higher amp one since I need to rewire the whole mess anyway. All in time.....


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## mcb

youre machine is capable of being a much, much more potent skidder than most people think. im confident i could get that unit dragging three buttlogs at a time, 20”x20' or so.

couple rules, fill the tires with used antifreeze after straining through a tee shirt and testing/adding concentrate for freeze protection. your nearest diesel/semi truck shop will surely give it to you by the drum because theyre paying for disposal. i suspect those tires will hold 25gallon each. fantastic how short and wide they are. the machine being short and low and square will have excellent maneuverability in tight woods. 

gearing is probably 5.88, 6.17 or 7.17 and spools or detroits wouldnt be surprising. pull the dang covers already, we wanna know.

dont rush this build , plan out a big budget sketch and then do the parts you can afford as you can. keep your eyes peeled and other pieces will fall in your lap at the junkyard or wherever. i would mount a pair of parallell 12volt group 31 truck batteries toward the back and plop that 10k winch in the middle but leave room to build a future two hinge grapple that straddles it. grapples are vastly more productive but only if u can back up to the log. on the sides of those two posts i would mount one each of the harbor freight $60 quad winch up high as you can. strip off some cable to give it more snot and make the cutoffs into extensions you keep on the tractor. the center winch is for your big buttlogs.. real those in as 16s and bring em to the mill. specially white oaks $. use the side winches for retrieving extra pieces as you drive along, instead of having to unhook the buttlog, twitch the other one, lash em together, rehook etc. trencher ground speed is slow but torque, weight and traction are very high for pulling cable plows and running hydraulic motors. they have excess HP to compensate for the huge power loss of hydraulic motor inefficiency. anyhow, your machine is gonna pull more than you think. 

next critical issue is front end ballast. what does your blade look like and how stout is it? number 1 priority for the front of that machine isna dozer blade with a log grapple, as heavy as you can make it. this is the difference between you pulling or wheelstanding hills. make the grapple so it can grab a 30” round, cuz those are the ones you will throw a disc out trying to get on your trailer. the blade shouldnt be very wide, less than the trackwidth of your machine so its not a hindrance getting through the woods. make the arms long and the ride high enough to push your logs up those sideboards onto your flatbed. limit the grapples open position mechanically so you can have it full open and be pushing full bore against it without bending the cylinder rods.. and positively use dual cylinders. i cut my trails, root rake, pop small stumps and push stuff over with my grapple rake constantly.. when im done youve got a beautiful singletrack recreation trail and richies will pay for nature walks. also, float is a must on the blade. backdrag float is how i do all my contouring. downpressure is how i anchor my machine forn heavy pull or lift the front wheels. in your case it would be worth the time to get the stroke right for enough tire clearance to sling chains on and off. 

back at the landing, you can deck the logs onto your flatbed and also build a pen for logs on the neck of the trailer. drag trees long, buck and sort at landing, grapple them and drive onto trailer. lay a pair of straps down first and pile your matchsticks ontop in the pen sideways like railroad ties till youve got just enough room to put the machine on back. when you get home grapple or strap the whole bundle and drag it off. also make it possible to keep forewood and sawlogs seperate.

be warned, the machine will max out a car trailer pretty soon and you might want to trade up to a pintle hook equipment trailer with fixed ramps and plate fenders or deckover. id avoid triaxle. sharp turns suck with heavy loads.

another thing ill pitch out for the future, is a hydraulic up/down/float cat1 3 point hitch system. on that i would hang a european style logging buttplate sorta like farmi and wallenstein winches use.. the choker plate and lift are great for dragging in a ton of smaller wood at once.

i would build hitch the same as youd find on a old belarus tractor. one cylinder is fine if its central and extends to raise. same for a grapple.. no need for 2 cylinders on a small machine, its just added expense. round tube is superior to square tube in torsional loading and diameter offers more strength than wall thickness.


general thoughts on ballast are to make your added weight be functional weight.. not just suitcases clanging around. theyre the most expensive weight you can find. always start in the tires. then a front blade, add a grapple or root rake to that..or loader. a front toolbox or utility crate for chain, gas and saw.. a heavy rops with big tube sweeps.. u can fill them with cement if needed. concrete is always the cheapest weight.. $4 for sixty pounds. but why use concrete if u can grab another piece of wood that needs hauling anyway in a grapple blade?


anyhow.. keep pluckin away. im just as broke as you are.. junkyard is the source of all the gems you need. i got a part time job at one to keep the materials flowing. sell firewood, buy scrap. those markets are heavily in your favor right now.


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## bigblue12v

MCB, 
Wow thanks for all the advice! Lots of good info and thoughts, and a tough looking 140 that thing is moving a lot of wood at once! Don't let the purists see those fenders lol. Nice fab work on that grapple blade too! Yea I guess you could say I'm taking my time, this thing has barely gotten anywhere lately. It's OK. One thing at a time.....


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## mcb

the purists can sit at home cutting their lawn with cuticle scissors between uploading hubcap pics on WFM and MTF while us men go get the work done. mine was scrapped and i rescued it, the tin and pto coupler went off to restore other machines so my penance has been done. 

i forgot to stress, winches and or winch pulleys as high and far forward as possible. every inch behind the tires you go comes with a tipover penalty on these small machines.


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## bigblue12v

mcb said:


> the purists can sit at home cutting their lawn with cuticle scissors between uploading hubcap pics on WFM and MTF while us men go get the work done. mine was scrapped and i rescued it, the tin and pto coupler went off to restore other machines so my penance has been done.
> 
> i forgot to stress, winches and or winch pulleys as high and far forward as possible. every inch behind the tires you go comes with a tipover penalty on these small machines.


Bahahaha!!!! Right there with you, these things were meant to work, you're not trashing it. I really like those fenders on yours anyway. Saw a 110 with fiberglass fenders they said brought $4200 un-restored at auction cuz the glass fenders were super rare. That's ridiculous. I'm on MTF but I don't do a whole lot on there... 

Now that I've got the Vermeer I don't think I'll use my Lawn Boy for forestry work, now it's a home body, use it for firewood ops, moving splitter, trailer and logs around here to stage them where needed. I'm anxious to get busy on the Vermeer but it's waiting on money mostly. Gotta rebuild the front end in my truck and just ordered new tires for it. Then at that point extra money can go to the Vermeer but if it ever quits raining here in tropical Indiana, I need to catch up on firewood work. I have lots to do! I need the Vermeer for one job, but he's got nothing but time, he wants trails made for his jeeps and ATVs.


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## mcb

well im sure i aint the only one who wants to see it dragging cords soon, but i know dodges ...youll be broke for a long time! 

i suspect if you get the ballast, traction and winch details right (read high lift angle) that the vermeer will pull a hitch comparable to a 350 dozer with a low mount winch. you got the weight, hp amd gear reduction. but we wont know till someone builds it!

i cant tell you ive gotten a strain gauge and measured pull at different angles but i can say butt height is the difference between whether i can or cant pull it. maybe 20-30% more wood if you can get it up a foot.


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## bigblue12v

Your killing me smalls! Dodges are the best truck ever made if it comes with a Cummins! Why? Cuz Chevy frames break in half and Ford wouldn't know a good gas engine if gm gave it to them and a power choke can't be considered a diesel engine because a diesel should be reliable and easy to work on lmao. 

Anyhow, at 316,600 miles I think the ol goat deserves some ball joints and a tie rod end. 

On the Vermeer, the rear is locked, the front is not. It may be a limited slip but it's not locked full time.


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## fordf150

bigblue12v said:


> Your killing me smalls! Dodges are the best truck ever made if it comes with a Cummins! Why? Cuz Chevy frames break in half and Ford wouldn't know a good gas engine if gm gave it to them and a power choke can't be considered a diesel engine because a diesel should be reliable and easy to work on lmao.
> 
> Anyhow, at 316,600 miles I think the ol goat deserves some ball joints and a tie rod end.



Dont knock my Power Choke. 300k miles and still going strong. i have patched enough chevy frames to agree with you on that one though.


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## bigblue12v

fordf150 said:


> Dont knock my Power Choke. 300k miles and still going strong. i have patched enough chevy frames to agree with you on that one though.


All in good jest dear Sir! Lol I've had a couple chokes, not my cup o tea. Nothing wrong with Ford as a truck though, they're good and solid. Just like a Dodge better personally. I've had lots of Dodges all served me very well.


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## bigblue12v

Finally got caught up on firewood enough to get back on this project. I got my hydraulic woes sorted out, some moron had tried to be a hydraulic plumber and had a couple lines crossed causing a dead head. Got that sorted out and I have power steering finally! Today I picked up a hydraulic winch and mast from an old wheel lift wrecker. Chevron Renegade was the bed. It is worm gear drive and has a release clutch for free spooling. Perfect! I had some lines that fit my valves and connections on the winch. It's quite a bit slower than I was hoping for. It's just sitting there with vice grips and ratchet strap at the moment. I'll weld it on at the bottom and then make a cross member with tabs to tie it into the old cylinder mounts behind the seat. Likely will cut the mast off just above the winch, at the future cross member. Or I'll just shorten it and use the top as cross member. It has a pulley in the top center which allowed the cable to be routed out along the wheel lift boom. In these pics we had already turned the winch around so the motor is inside and protected instead of facing the rear. I need to build a roller fairlead and stinger for it to mount on. Wanting to keep that not much higher than the winch due to this having such a short wheel base I want to limit the leverage the log will have. Still tossing ideas about. Also will be adding steel log bumper/ fenders on the rear. Need to sort out some wiring and add gauges, get it charging etc. And re-install the blade and build a cage for safety. And a cargo area for saw, fuel, tools cables etc. 
So excited to make progress on this thing! Been looking forward to getting it done enough to use this fall! Got work lined up for it!















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## bigblue12v

mcb said:


> well im sure i aint the only one who wants to see it dragging cords soon, but i know dodges ...youll be broke for a long time!
> 
> i suspect if you get the ballast, traction and winch details right (read high lift angle) that the vermeer will pull a hitch comparable to a 350 dozer with a low mount winch. you got the weight, hp amd gear reduction. but we wont know till someone builds it!
> 
> i cant tell you ive gotten a strain gauge and measured pull at different angles but i can say butt height is the difference between whether i can or cant pull it. maybe 20-30% more wood if you can get it up a foot.


I didn't wanna go any higher due to short wheel base of this thing and that it'll be on hills quite a bit. Is 4' high enough?





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## TundraRider

Bigblue12v. I have to ask about the name is for older 12 valve cummins? I have a mildly built blue 97.


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## bigblue12v

TundraRider said:


> Bigblue12v. I have to ask about the name is for older 12 valve cummins? I have a mildly built blue 97.


Had this one years ago, the screen name just stuck.. 96 fully built 5 speed with South Bend dual disc , 12" custom built long arm lift, custom cross over steering, 46" Michelin XL military tires, enough fuel, timing and air to spin 1050 tq and 450 HP at the wheels with 39.5" Iroks on it.





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## anlrolfe

rwoods said:


> Don't waste the existing hydraulics -



How about log splitter in place of the old trencher boom?


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## TundraRider

bigblue12v said:


> Had this one years ago, the screen name just stuck.. 96 fully built 5 speed with South Bend dual disc , 12" custom built long arm lift, custom cross over steering, 46" Michelin XL military tires, enough fuel, timing and air to spin 1050 tq and 450 HP at the wheels with 39.5" Iroks on it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


I have a rust free 96 two wheeler five speed. I bought with the intention of finding an old coe to put on the frame. The 96 runs like a top with 435,000 on her. I have more projects than time.


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## bigblue12v

anlrolfe said:


> How about log splitter in place of the old trencher boom?


Because I'm skidding logs out and onto trailer to take back to my yard, if I was splitting in the woods I wouldn't need a skidder lol. 4 cylinder diesel is quite a waste for a splitter. The splitter would get in the way of the winch big time and serve me no use at all really. The hydraulics aren't being wasted. The winch is hydraulic, front blade is hydraulic and I'm hoping to adapt a front end loader to this machine in the future. No worries. 

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## bigblue12v

TundraRider said:


> I have a rust free 96 two wheeler five speed. I bought with the intention of finding an old coe to put on the frame. The 96 runs like a top with 435,000 on her. I have more projects than time.


Sounds like a sweet project! Miles are just a number with these things. My current truck is an 04 3500 5.9 out of Louisiana (rust free!) With 321k. No leaks pretty much no blow by. Good clean unit. I definitely understand more projects than time! Big problem here too! 

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## TundraRider

I would not be afraid to buy one of those motors with more miles. I really want to get a one ton eventually for pulling my stuff around and for a camper hauler. I also have a 1940 two door Chevy that I want to trhow one of my 12 valves in. Progress is slow on that one too. Gpx433Todd picked that one up for me and it sat at his place for several months before I was able to drag it to my place and there it sits again. Still loved with plans just no time.


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## bigblue12v

Way too many projects lol but at least they're cool ones!

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## bigblue12v

Took a few days off work last week to bust out some real work! Refurbished my recently acquired project gooseneck trailer, which entailed new lights, wiring, tongue reinforcing, replacing the bent coupler tube, adding traction lugs on dovetail, adding deck frame, paint and new poplar deck boards. Also got quite a bit done on the skidder! Got the cage built (not done adding safety screen to it though), fabbed up a missing lower control arm bracket for the blade and got it installed and plumbed up, turned front wheels around the right way, built a 3/8" log bumper with receiver hitch, fabbed up fairlead rollers for the winch, I built them from scratch. .250" wall 2.5" tube with ball bearings and 1" shaft. Very very happy with how these came out! The winch is plumbed in and working, discovered that a 2 gallon can fits perfectly on the left of the winch and a 1 gallon (will use for bar oil) fits perfect on the right side. These fit perfectly snug enough to not bounce out but easy to grab! I've yet to find a good place to mount a tool box. I switched out the tall suspension seat for a low one with a seat belt, made a floor pan since one side was missing, notched out the steps to wrap around the cage uprights, we made some saw scabbards I mounted on the back, these are made from 3/8" thick plastic and are quite sturdy! Yesterday picked up a couple gliders with tear drops and choker hooks, used a chain I had to make a choker 7.5' long and the other is around 6' long. I used a chunk of 1/2" plate as a glider stop before reinstalling my winch hook. The hook may have been a bad idea as it may grab limbs or brush but I hope not as it will be handy for many uses. 

Still on the to-do list:
Rewire machine and add lights
Finish cage screen
Add a solid roof
Get brakes working
Fill tires with fluid
Maybe find chains for front tires
Build some diggers for the blade that will add holding power when winching
Add log grapple to blade
Mount tool box, maybe on top of blade frame up front. Seems inconvenient I'd rather have on the rear. Thought about above winch but I wanna keep visibility open to see the hitch area. 
Maybe add another glider or two. 
Later on I'll repaint the machine. 

Whew! It's pretty much usable now though. Basically it has enough wiring to start. No charging no glow plugs no gauges. I'll be fixing all that in time.

Couple of shots of the gooseneck trailer and one of a smaller log trailer I built a couple weeks ago it's a 7,000# good for residential job or could pull down trails with skidder to a remote landing. I parbuckle all my logs with winch onto truck or trailer. 























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## Marshy

Looking really good! Can't wait to see more.


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## TundraRider

Looks awesome.


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## bigblue12v

Thanks! Hopefully soon I'll have new pictures with more progress. I'm really indecisive on adding an arch. I won't deny it might help but I guarantee it could be just as bad at times. Also this winch is pathetically slow. I need a much huge-er pump just for it. It's worm gear drive and slower than a dead slug. No doubt very strong but good god it is a time waster. Not even sure what to do about it right now. Guess I'll just deal with it for a while until I decide to put a bigger pump on just for it maybe. Idk. Maybe I won't need to use it long stretches at a time since this machine is small enough to get closer to trees. 
I guess time will tell. I'm gonna try to find a sweet deal on some cylinders to make a grapple for the blade. I think it'll need the extra ballast up front. I'll be busy for the next week getting my property cleaned up for our big annual bonfire pitch in party so prepare to wait for progress. It will be happening fast after that though because I need this thing in the field like ASAP. I'm hiring a guy to work for me part time splitting for me. I wish I could quit my full time day job. 


TundraRider said:


> Looks awesome.




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## TundraRider

bigblue12v said:


> Thanks! Hopefully soon I'll have new pictures with more progress. I'm really indecisive on adding an arch. I won't deny it might help but I guarantee it could be just as bad at times. Also this winch is pathetically slow. I need a much huge-er pump just for it. It's worm gear drive and slower than a dead slug. No doubt very strong but good god it is a time waster. Not even sure what to do about it right now. Guess I'll just deal with it for a while until I decide to put a bigger pump on just for it maybe. Idk. Maybe I won't need to use it long stretches at a time since this machine is small enough to get closer to trees.
> I guess time will tell. I'm gonna try to find a sweet deal on some cylinders to make a grapple for the blade. I think it'll need the extra ballast up front. I'll be busy for the next week getting my property cleaned up for our big annual bonfire pitch in party so prepare to wait for progress. It will be happening fast after that though because I need this thing in the field like ASAP. I'm hiring a guy to work for me part time splitting for me. I wish I could quit my full time day job.



You could possibly build a removable arch that slides into stake pockets or pins on. That way you would be able to try one and can take it off when not needed. A pin on one would be nice as you could build it so you could back up to the bottom legs, pin it into place and tip it up into position and pin the top in and us a snatch block to attach the winch. Heck if you put an eye on the cab you could probably use the winch to tip it into place making it easier to put on and off in the woods if you wanted too.


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## bigblue12v

TundraRider said:


> You could possibly build a removable arch that slides into stake pockets or pins on. That way you would be able to try one and can take it off when not needed. A pin on one would be nice as you could build it so you could back up to the bottom legs, pin it into place and tip it up into position and pin the top in and us a snatch block to attach the winch. Heck if you put an eye on the cab you could probably use the winch to tip it into place making it easier to put on and off in the woods if you wanted too.


That's pretty similar to what I envisioned actually! One slight beef that I have with it being removable is that it'll mean I am gonna spend a bit of change making more fairlead rollers for the arch while leaving the original ones where they are for using without the arch. I know everyone says an arch will make a huge difference, I know it'll add a lot of traction but with that traction comes leverage and I feel like they don't understand how short this machine really is and how hilly everything is here.
Logging winch attachments on tractors work great I'm told and they don't have an arch. They're almost just like what I've got, and this machine is pretty similar in size and wheelbase and weight as a compact tractor. So to me it should work great just as it is. 

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## TundraRider

Great minds think alike. Haha. It looks like you might have enough room on top to add another roller to the top of the fairlead. Those are pretty short machines and in hilly areas you might end up needing a lot more weight to keep the front end down possibly adding chloride to the front tires. If you run into an problem with the logs digging into the ground you could always make an arch on a trailer too, that way you could make a new fairlead on the trailer and would not have to mess with the one you built. But with a trailer you are losing some of the ability to get into tight spots.


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## mesupra

Awesome work!! What a great platform to start with.


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## bigblue12v

TundraRider said:


> Great minds think alike. Haha. It looks like you might have enough room on top to add another roller to the top of the fairlead. Those are pretty short machines and in hilly areas you might end up needing a lot more weight to keep the front end down possibly adding chloride to the front tires. If you run into an problem with the logs digging into the ground you could always make an arch on a trailer too, that way you could make a new fairlead on the trailer and would not have to mess with the one you built. But with a trailer you are losing some of the ability to get into tight spots.



I can't see a need for a top roller? Planning to add grapples to the blade to grab another log, as well as fill all 4 tires with fluid. I shouldn't have any trouble getting the logs up enough to not dig in. 
I did add a drop down bar on back of the blade that will dig in to help add holding power when winching. I'll get a of of that this weekend to show what I mean. 

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## mesupra

Depending on the land you are working I would not bother with fluid. Some chains would be worth their weight in gold.


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## bigblue12v

mesupra said:


> Depending on the land you are working I would not bother with fluid. Some chains would be worth their weight in gold.


I've been kinda looking at chains just haven't found ones I like at the right price. Why would you not bother with fluid? More weight down low like that will improve center of gravity and stability as well as traction. It's a win win. What am I missing?

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## mesupra

If you are looking to work on soft ground the fluid will not help where weights can be added and removed as needed. If you are on step or solid ground, fill er up. Chains are great, look around for some used chains that can be cut and fit.


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## bigblue12v

mesupra said:


> If you are looking to work on soft ground the fluid will not help where weights can be added and removed as needed. If you are on step or solid ground, fill er up. Chains are great, look around for some used chains that can be cut and fit.


The tires on this are plenty wide enough on somewhat soft ground it'll be fine. Believe it or not, two owners ago this thing was being used as a mud toy! Lol some guys I know that were friends with them said this thing was going through crap a Chevy on 35's couldn't. Entirely different story with a load of logs in tow, but most ground is steep and fairly solid so I'm fine with adding weight. 

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## mesupra

I've heard you can buy a 50 gallons drum of windshield washer fluid cheap


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## bigblue12v

mesupra said:


> I've heard you can buy a 50 gallons drum of windshield washer fluid cheap


Oh really? Never seen it for sale that way but I'm interested! Any idea where to order that?

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## TundraRider

bigblue12v said:


> Oh really? Never seen it for sale that way but I'm interested! Any idea where to order that?
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


Check with local auto shops to start with. I know some of the small oil change shops around me get it in 55 gallon barrels. Also some of the tire shops around here will fill the tires with fluid.


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## bigblue12v

TundraRider said:


> Check with local auto shops to start with. I know some of the small oil change shops around me get it in 55 gallon barrels. Also some of the tire shops around here will fill the tires with fluid.


Good ideas thanks! I bought 4 cases of gallon jugs from home depot last winter for my garden tractor tires, they discounted them because they had bird crap on them from sitting on top shelf for a while. I have a pump that works good to fill them so I wouldn't pay a tire shop to do it. They usually get good money out of that. But I appreciate the oil change pit suggestions! Had a little time to get some more screen on it until I ran out of wire in my welder. One side is done and I'm happy with it. The part above the hood flips up on hinges made from small shackles, so you can get to the engine area easier. 









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## bryanr2




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## bigblue12v

Got a lot of progress made on it last couple days! 
Exhaust repairs, valve cover resealed, new gauges, new alternator, entire machine rewired from scratch, roof, right side caged, lights, operator fan, key ignition, front tires filled with fluid (only had enough to do those two right now) they are stupid heavy. Got about 20 gallons of used antifreeze in each at 9#/gal approx. Replaced a hydraulic hose that rubbed a drive chain and got a pin hole in it. Removed brakes, thoroughly cleaned and will go back on tomorrow, get adjusted and hopefully work. This thing is pretty much done! I'll get pics tomorrow after it is back out of the shop and finished. Roof is 10 gauge diamond plate. I feel really secure sitting inside it. Feels like you're in some sort of combat vehicle lol coming together really nicely can't wait to use it. Won't be long I'll be posting pics and video of it pulling logs. 

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## bryanr2

looks like it came right out of Mad Max. looking forward to video


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## bigblue12v

bryanr2 said:


> looks like it came right out of Mad Max. looking forward to video


Ha wait until tomorrow's pictures lol I think it's looking sweet! I've seen quite a few trencher/skidder conversions online and gotten good ideas from almost all of them but I am pretty sure mine could be a winner in the operator safety category. Most of the rest of them have little if any protection. But I've got just enough fab skills to pull off about anything I think up and I've researched the topic to death, and had plenty of time to figure out how I want it. Although I don't draw diagrams or plans or blueprints. Almost everything I work with as I go, building off the concept in my head and adjusting as needed as I go. I wanted a nice thick Lexan windshield until I priced it lol 

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## TundraRider

Blueprints are for mass production intended to be drawn up after the awesomeness of the prototype was fully achieved. Lol


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## bigblue12v

TundraRider said:


> Blueprints are for mass production intended to be drawn up after the awesomeness of the prototype was fully achieved. Lol


You are my new favorite person! You're awesome! Lol I needed that right now. Having a rough start to my day personally... Headed to a Dr appointment actually right now. 

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## bigblue12v

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## bigblue12v

360 18" and 660 24" in their scabbards!






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## bryanr2

WOW! That has got to be the coolest thing I have ever seen on AS. Video Pls ASAP. 
quick question: Maybe you posted it, but what kind of light do you have mounted on that skidder? Seems to have an impressive out put.


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## bigblue12v

bryanr2 said:


> WOW! That has got to be the coolest thing I have ever seen on AS. Video Pls ASAP.
> quick question: Maybe you posted it, but what kind of light do you have mounted on that skidder? Seems to have an impressive out put.


Haha thanks, as soon as I get video I'll post it for sure. The lights are just some cheap driving lights from auto parts store. They have standard H1 halogen high output bulbs nothing special. Same bulb many off road/driving/flood lights use. They are pretty effective for what they are. 

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## bryanr2

I'll admit, this build has started me looking at CL for a used trencher. For the price Im seeing, I might as well buy a tractor though.


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## bigblue12v

bryanr2 said:


> I'll admit, this build has started me looking at CL for a used trencher. For the price Im seeing, I might as well buy a tractor though.


I could buy an old garden tractor with what I paid for this thing lol

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## bryanr2

bigblue12v said:


> I could buy an old garden tractor with what I paid for this thing lol
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk



some folks have all the luck.


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## bigblue12v

bryanr2 said:


> some folks have all the luck.


I only buy things that are a smoking deal whether I need them or not. Sometimes I don't need them until I create a need lmao or I sell things I got a deal on and make good side money doing that. 

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## bryanr2

VIDEO yet?


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## bigblue12v

bryanr2 said:


> VIDEO yet?


Sorry my grandmother left us Saturday and it's been raining here nonstop last 24 hours anyway. We bury her tomorrow. My mind isn't really on the skidder at the moment. It's done until field tested. I've used the blade a lot already though. Handy machine for my long sloped/curved gravel driveway that washes out. 

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## bryanr2

bigblue12v said:


> Sorry my grandmother left us Saturday and it's been raining here nonstop last 24 hours anyway. We bury her tomorrow. My mind isn't really on the skidder at the moment. It's done until field tested. I've used the blade a lot already though. Handy machine for my long sloped/curved gravel driveway that washes out.
> 
> Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


SO SORRY FOR YOUR LOSS. My mom's mom is all that remains of my grandparents and she has dementia. My condolences to you and your family.


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## bigblue12v

bryanr2 said:


> SO SORRY FOR YOUR LOSS. My mom's mom is all that remains of my grandparents and she has dementia. My condolences to you and your family.


Thank you. My mother's mom is in early stages of that I'm afraid. Truly sad to see my once invincible grandparents age. My grandpa has had a lot of heart problems through the years and is now living solely on his pacemaker. He's also diabetic. He's going to have a very rough time of it now without Mamaw. To make things worse I live 2 hours away from them all, and can't make it over very often thanks to my job. 

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## bryanr2

Grannys 92. My parents are 70. I pray I get to have them for another 20 years. I would be lost without them.


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## bigblue12v

bryanr2 said:


> Grannys 92. My parents are 70. I pray I get to have them for another 20 years. I would be lost without them.


I understand completely! I grew up very close to mine. My dad's work situation moved us away when I was 11. We were over there frequently for several years but as I got into adulthood my availability got worse with jobs demanding my presence here. 

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## TundraRider

Sorry for your loss.


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## bigblue12v

Thanks everyone for the kind words. I'm hoping to get the skidder out in the woods soon and give it a shakedown run to see what it can do and what might need changed. I don't have any woods on my property so I'll need to take it to my girlfriend's parents a few miles down the road. If it passes the tests, it is going on-site officially. I'm trying to track down some tires for my gooseneck trailer, two are fairly dry rotted and concern me. I also would like to get this thing on the scales and see what it weighs. The front tires each took about 20 gallons of used antifreeze at 9#/gal. 

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## mcb

sorry about your gram. 


machine came out excellent. i highly suggest a pair of $60 harbor freight remote control winches, one at each corner behind the saws. theyre cheap, fairly quick and hearty enough to grab substantial stuff. use the slowpoke winch for a mainline to transfer onto from the small ones, or when youve gotta reel in a whopper.

you can only see pull speed for a second then it lugs at the butt jams solid into my hitch


the first few seconds of this show double line pull, which is half speed. 



entered a tractor pull with my deere (and actually won my class, pretty cool) weighed in at 1440lbs without me.. im betting youre into the 4,000 range. a case 30+4 with vibratory blade and chain trencher is about #5200. that blade of your sideswings too right? pretty sweet, youre gonna hafta mount a go-pro on that sucker stat!


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## mcb

btw you aint gonna need an arch, that brute has plenty of lift. i bet that setup now will get the butts as high as a d3 with an arch.


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## bigblue12v

MCB, glad to see you join back in on this! Your Deere is still impressive! I like that thing. Yes this is in the 4000# range. I'm going to add some weight to the blade. Also wanting to add grapple to blade hopefully this winter. Trying to find a deal on cylinders first. Yes blade angles. No it doesn't seem to need an arch. I forgot to post some pics from the shake down run last Sunday. It did pretty fair! Needs some more weight up front. 
I'm definitely thinking about the harbor freight winch idea. I remember you said something about it before. Can't out build my wallet lol. Thinking I'll mount them on swivels I'll build so they can pivot to follow the cable's line of pull instead of constantly balling up on one side of the spool. 









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## mcb

Dang thats awesome. How bad did it wheelie? Have any trouble lifting the butts or was the winch height sufficient? Whatd you run out of first, power, traction or front ballast?


I hear ya on the money, im always in the poorhouse, medical and food for kids today is like payin a mortgage when i was a kid.


I wouldnt swivel the whole winch cuz then the motor sticks out pretty far and would hit the machine unless mounted way out on riggers. Id rigid mount the winches then mount a nylon or uhmw block with a 3/4" pass thru hole for the cable and just let it wear. Ziplines use this setup. I havent had any trouble with bunching.

The grapple will really help. Youd be able to come at that tree from the side, bite it, lift and swivel it to line up best for a good skid. If youre makinv your own trails i cant suggest enough to add the tines for root raking to the grapple edge. Clears scrub in a few passes. I used $3 harrow spikes from agri supply but your machine would snap them in rocky soil.


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## bigblue12v

mcb said:


> Dang thats awesome. How bad did it wheelie? Have any trouble lifting the butts or was the winch height sufficient? Whatd you run out of first, power, traction or front ballast?
> 
> 
> I hear ya on the money, im always in the poorhouse, medical and food for kids today is like payin a mortgage when i was a kid.
> 
> 
> I wouldnt swivel the whole winch cuz then the motor sticks out pretty far and would hit the machine unless mounted way out on riggers. Id rigid mount the winches then mount a nylon or uhmw block with a 3/4" pass thru hole for the cable and just let it wear. Ziplines use this setup. I havent had any trouble with bunching.
> 
> The grapple will really help. Youd be able to come at that tree from the side, bite it, lift and swivel it to line up best for a good skid. If youre makinv your own trails i cant suggest enough to add the tines for root raking to the grapple edge. Clears scrub in a few passes. I used $3 harrow spikes from agri supply but your machine would snap them in rocky soil.



Not horrible wheelies but pulling those tops out we had to trim them up a bit first as they were tangled up good. It would pull a wheelie until front tires were up a foot or so then the backs would spin a bit. It was usually bouncing the front end as the backs were grabbing and slipping. All of this at just off idle. Definitely no shortage of power with 60hp diesel on tap! If the winch was pulling really hard it would even start to lift the front end a little. Just needs more weight. Once I got those tops on the trail and broke free, they pulled real easy! It was getting them unstuck that was the problem. I think with actual logs no branches to tangle up, I think it'll do really really good! Wish it could get the butts higher but it's as much as it needs. Maybe safer at this height so if it starts to wheelie it'll set them on the ground. 
Good idea on the ATV winch nylon guide plate. I like that better. 
Root rake would be handy but I'm not sure what I'd use for tines. I love the grapple/rake combo you built that is top notch. Would appreciate more pictures that show more detail of that.
These will show lift height, these were red oak 16-18" diameter 8' long couldn't even tell they were there moving around my yard. 




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## Marshy

Awesome man. I bet your little guy likes riding in it. Time to find some chains to help with traction. Maybe fill the tires with fluid would help with front ballast too.


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## bigblue12v

Marshy said:


> Awesome man. I bet your little guy likes riding in it. Time to find some chains to help with traction. Maybe fill the tires with fluid would help with front ballast too.


He loves riding on it! He'll be 6 this weekend. Backs are getting enough traction to do wheelie so I think they're good on traction. Fronts are filled with fluid already, chains would only help if the tires would stay on the ground lol ballast first then I'll go from there. 

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## Marshy

Check craigslist for suitcase weights or go to your local farmer and see if he has any that he is willing to get rid of. They are generally 100 lbs each. 5-6 of those on the front would go a long way I bet.


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## mcb

I built ringshank chains from scratch out of cold roll straight rods on various dies i built, huge amount of work but hey, gnarly chains for ultra traction right?! Fail. Tried one chain and one lug at same time.. The chain tire crippled my machine.. Couldnt even drive up hills that i could skid up with bare rubber... Im dead serious. Every single time the chain broke ground and spun first then dug down and just spit dirt out. The chain concentrates all the weight onto points and they penetrate, then disturb the topsoil severely. You will never see chains on competitive pullers because they make traction worse, not better. Until youre in the frozen icy stuff, thats different story, you want the cleats to break into the ice and penetrate the top of the frozen dirt, which doesnt just give way because its all bonded by frozen moisture into a rigid tractable structure. For thawed dirtwork, those short fat paddles are the cats meow.






My grapple is pretty simple but i shoulda done 2 cylinders because the single one hits my frame at full lift. Use round tube for the top beam, its better at torsion. It did warp pretty bad into a smile from all that heat all on the same side. I cut out a bunch of crescents, stacked em, tacked em and drilled holes through entire pile. Then inserted rods thru the holes and welded the whole mess to the round top tube which just swings via tabs and bolts to make a hinge.






















Note the bent crescent below and extra piece above. I had to weld in a 1/4 x 2 flat strip along the bottom to prevent that twisting.






This one shows the grapple linkage and revised top cylinder mount that i still bent to hell.










while funds prevent more winches, I think youll wanna weld some chain clevis hooks up on that top rail, 2 or 3 per side, cuz im sure this machine will pull all the wood you can fit across that buttplate once the weight its sorted. Using just the one center cable makes one log wanna stand ontop the other and kinda try to fight you in turns as they climb each other. Little separation will prevent it.

You could take of your front rims, lay them down, line with cardboard then a trashbag and pour concrete weights. $4/60lbs is cheap as it gets. Use pvc pipes in the pour to keep passage open for threaded rods to fasten to wheels. Front chains are also a good ballast, as is the grapple.. Make that sucker heavy, cuz they take huge abuse and its forward and low weight, just what ya need.

Man im stoked for you, makes me wanna start my next build! My wun forty been wun upped!


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## jnl50201

Has been a good read. Thanks. Can't wait for more.

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## 1Alpha1

That's really badass. 

Nice fabricating work.


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## bigblue12v

Thank you guys! Right now is a really busy time of year for me and I haven't been able to get in the woods. Even my saws have went almost untouched for a month or so. I'll get back to it when I can. I just had all my wood cut ahead of winter so now it's work overtime and some other shop projects in the limited daylight after work. 

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## bryanr2

Ive been watching craigslist ever since you first started this thread.  Here's hoping.


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## bigblue12v

Haha you'd have to get a smoking deal on one to make it a good option over a tractor. A tractor can be so much more versatile. This is a purpose built machine which makes it better in some ways but if I was spending what these typically bring, I'd probably get a tractor instead. 

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## mcb

Bump


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## ChoppyChoppy

mcb said:


> I built ringshank chains from scratch out of cold roll straight rods on various dies i built, huge amount of work but hey, gnarly chains for ultra traction right?! Fail. Tried one chain and one lug at same time.. The chain tire crippled my machine.. Couldnt even drive up hills that i could skid up with bare rubber... Im dead serious. Every single time the chain broke ground and spun first then dug down and just spit dirt out. The chain concentrates all the weight onto points and they penetrate, then disturb the topsoil severely. You will never see chains on competitive pullers because they make traction worse, not better. Until youre in the frozen icy stuff, thats different story, you want the cleats to break into the ice and penetrate the top of the frozen dirt, which doesnt just give way because its all bonded by frozen moisture into a rigid tractable structure. For thawed dirtwork, those short fat paddles are the cats meow.
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> while funds prevent more winches, I think youll wanna weld some chain clevis hooks up on that top rail, 2 or 3 per side, cuz im sure this machine will pull all the wood you can fit across that buttplate once the weight its sorted. Using just the one center cable makes one log wanna stand ontop the other and kinda try to fight you in turns as they climb each other. Little separation will prevent it.
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> You could take of your front rims, lay them down, line with cardboard then a trashbag and pour concrete weights. $4/60lbs is cheap as it gets. Use pvc pipes in the pour to keep passage open for threaded rods to fasten to wheels. Front chains are also a good ballast, as is the grapple.. Make that sucker heavy, cuz they take huge abuse and its forward and low weight, just what ya need.
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> Man im stoked for you, makes me wanna start my next build! My wun forty been wun upped!



Must be something to do with the weight, I dunno. We run chains on the skidders, WAY better traction, plus at about $4000 each for tires, the chains make the tires lasting longer.


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## mcb

Absolutely, a skidder is so heavy its like a compactor, the ground is getting compressed beneath it and the contact patch of those big tires is so large that a huge amount of ground has to give way for wheelspin. 

A garden tractor is just way too light for summer chains, and the contact patch is tiny. The trencher may or not perform better with them. Would just have to try it.


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