# What do you do to pull yourself over the branch at the top?



## ForTheArborist (Nov 22, 2011)

Basically the problem is climbing to the TIP, and then getting on top of the branch to keep branch/wood from swinging right back into myself for being on the bottom side of the branch and right next to the cut. Very awkward either way; getting hit by the cut, or just pulling myself up over the top of the branch to get out of the way of the branch/wood.

In the past I've used a stirrup to get over, but it just kicks out making it an absolute fight to get over on it.

I suppose tying up higher than the branch first, and then limb walking out there is really the typical technique. That is fine for a broad Oak branch, but a narrow pepper tree with its papery bark is no good for walking on in my boots. Then there's straddling the branch all the way out there which is more trouble than it's worth. :msp_thumbdn:


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## Iustinian (Nov 22, 2011)

I agree, definitely tie in higher than the branch you're trying to get on top of. I know you said you tried a stirrup before, but maybe an aider 8 step would help a little better. Plus its easy to snap this thing into srt. 







worst case theres the big wall ladder, but I'd get laughed at bigtime, even by the rock climbers for even having it in my gear bag. Every tool has a purpose I guess though.


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## no tree to big (Nov 22, 2011)

generally one does not climb above his TIP anyway... best bet is to tie in higher from the git go. unless your some kind of gymnast


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## Iustinian (Nov 23, 2011)

*generally true*



no tree to big said:


> generally one does not climb above his TIP anyway... best bet is to tie in higher from the git go. unless your some kind of gymnast



true, but the need to climb above the TIP will arise, and we have to be adaptable and "flexible" hahahaha. 

I had to go above mine recently, taking the dead top out of a tree that had been struck by lightning, tied into a safe point below the dead portion. 

Plus if all you have is the branch youre removing, for some reason, then you'll have to do the gymnast thing lol. or the 8 step etrier lol


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## ForTheArborist (Nov 23, 2011)

Iustinian said:


> I agree, definitely tie in higher than the branch you're trying to get on top of. I know you said you tried a stirrup before, but maybe an aider 8 step would help a little better. Plus its easy to snap this thing into srt.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I like the top one, and you just get a length of rope and a biner to hold it up on the horizontal branch. Wrap around the branch, and clip it to the rope. More than likely an ascender type device to synch up the rope to the exact diameter of the branch is gonna keep the top of the ladder from hanging too low below the branch.


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## Iustinian (Nov 23, 2011)

ForTheAction said:


> I like the top one, and you just get a length of rope and a biner to hold it up on the horizontal branch. Wrap around the branch, and clip it to the rope. More than likely an ascender type device to synch up the rope to the exact diameter of the branch is gonna keep the top of the ladder from hanging too low below the branch.



you could also use one of the nylon or dyneema runner slings. They come in handy for lots of things, girth hitching them as a handle or stirrup around a branch, or using them to make a handle on a bigger peice of wood if you still want to be able to one-hand toss it.


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## imagineero (Nov 23, 2011)

I try to set my rope from the ground once only, as high as possible. Big shot is great, and at least 2 throw line sets with a light and heavy ball for height on the light and for penetration of dense canopies on the heavy. On a wide spreading tree I'll often set 2 or 3 ropes from the ground. It's best practice and sure saves a lot of time in the tree. Re-throwing in the tree is a big time waster.

Having said that, for whatever reason if you have to get above your tip then sometimes re-throwing works. Get as high as you can, and re-throw the tail of your rope to the next highest branch. You can either use a coil that self releases, or one with a gasket hitch in place of a throw bag. Use a second prussik to attach your new TIP and climb on.

If there are no more branches above your tip or too far to the next one then your options change with your size/agility. One I use on branches that are close to horizontal is a 'mantle' move. Just the same thing you'd use to get over the top of a brick wall. both hands on branch, pull yourself up and over, then push down with both hands to lift yourself up as high as you can. Get one leg up and you're pretty much done. You can brace your back against the trunk for extra balance. You need to give yourself plenty of rope slack or you wont make it. 

If you're fat or unflexible then a ladder can work ;-)

Shaun


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## David (saltas) (Nov 23, 2011)

[QUOTE If you're fat or unflexible then a ladder can work ;-) Shaun[/QUOTE]

Sadly I resemble that remark these days


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## ForTheArborist (Nov 23, 2011)

saltas said:


> [QUOTE If you're fat or unflexible then a ladder can work ;-) Shaun



Sadly I resemble that remark these days[/QUOTE]

No big deal though, right?


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## lostcoastland (Nov 23, 2011)

hang by your lanyard and use a set of sticks to set your self a higher TIP. Or if your tired or FAT* lol...i have been eyeing a Pantin foot ascender then you can stand up into the crotch... OR set a loop runner with sticks in a choker and attach to that to get upif theres no branches or crotches..throw your legs up first, upside down!! and hand over hand up an in..

as far as horizontal branches like peppers ...do the scooch or crawl or walk..bottom line you want to not tire yourself out..but you know how that goes..

you could stand on a loop runner or even wrap the rope around your foot to stand on it,,bowline ect. Bottom line if theres not enough structure to be there you shouldnt. thats were the sticks and pole saw,,UHGG come into play. I just bought a power pruner i know its a little unweildy but alot of those large unreachable branches can be pruned from afar with one alot quicker than a polesaw just dont get it pinched or drop it..

It's mostly planning. go to your tip and look at what branches will interfere with moving around in the tree and if you can open it up a little and where your goign to struggle you must reset your tie in . I did some big ficus's today and there smooth and theres no branches i had to climb where i could find branches and retie where i could so i would end up back just a coupe feet away from where i was because i wasnt going to spike it. Then your doubling your flip fline so it locks hanging with no footholds just to make that cut. And dont leave a stub!!:msp_thumbup:


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## lostcoastland (Nov 23, 2011)

saltas said:


> [QUOTE If you're fat or unflexible then a ladder can work ;-) Shaun



Sadly I resemble that remark these days[/QUOTE]

If your fat and unflexible then other people can work...lol:msp_tongue:


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## beastmaster (Nov 24, 2011)

When I get stuck having to go over a branch that is also my tip, i climb up to it then put my lanyard around it, put slack in the climbing line and lift up my legs and use the climbing line as a hand hold and torque my self up and over. Of course any equipment you have with you will get tangled or stuck half way though the maneuver. I also carry with me some times some short 8mm rope and a small rope man ascender, and toss that up over something for leverage to help crawl over those difficult limbs. It best to try and avoid that whole situation with getting that tip up high. Beastmaster


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## ForTheArborist (Nov 24, 2011)

You know a lot of times just keeping a length of rope and a biner tied on the end works for situations like this. Eucs often have long stretches with no branches at all, so you have to make a false step with the rope loop to just get to the next crotch. 

The loop could work on the bottom/top side branch conversion we are talking about here. It's still a pain in the butt though. Any time you put that foot on any kind of line hanging from the bottom of the branch it kicks out. Basically you're going in the wrong direction because the foot hold is kicking out.

Eh, there's no easy way to do this unless you have a TIP higher than the branch. :bang:


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## ForTheArborist (Nov 24, 2011)

Just thinking out loud here. Might never be a technique anyone here would use.


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## beastmaster (Nov 24, 2011)

That'll work. If you get your srt rope up high enough you can just snake the end around as needed. Your only hindered by your imagination. With that being said, I always anchor on the ground so I can easily retrieve my rope.
You can also put a prussic with a pulley on the SRT line(an alpine butterfly knot under the prussic), and ddrt off it any where on the line.


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## ForTheArborist (Nov 24, 2011)

beastmaster said:


> You can also put a prussic with a pulley on the SRT line(an alpine butterfly knot under the prussic), and ddrt off it any where on the line.



+100

 Will definitely be using that one next time. I think you just made me richer. Hmmmmmmm


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## one2tree (Jan 8, 2015)

no tree to big said:


> generally one does not climb above his TIP anyway... best bet is to tie in higher from the git go. unless your some kind of gymnast


All climbers need to remain gymnasts you can't solely rely on gizmos an gear.... yes i agree mechanical advantages are good an srt is flash but noone has a place calling themselves a climber ...if they cant F in climb. Thoughtsssssssssssss please


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## DLCRL (Jan 9, 2015)

Sounds like an exorbitant amount of work versus gaffes and a buck strap, I'm just saying I've had people on here who say climbing w/o them is just as easy, but I just can't see it.


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## Del_ (Jan 9, 2015)

DLCRL said:


> Sounds like an exorbitant amount of work versus gaffes and a buck strap, I'm just saying I've had people on here who say climbing w/o them is just as easy, but I just can't see it.



No gaffes on tree pruning.

Damages the tree.


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## no tree to big (Jan 9, 2015)

DLCRL said:


> Sounds like an exorbitant amount of work versus gaffes and a buck strap, I'm just saying I've had people on here who say climbing w/o them is just as easy, but I just can't see it.


If u set your self up right it's just as easy. Where we work a homeowner would kill u if u spiked there trees. It is no joke around here. If you do a spike trim and the co finds out ur fired no questions!


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## DLCRL (Jan 9, 2015)

no tree to big said:


> If u set your self up right it's just as easy. Where we work a homeowner would kill u if u spiked there trees. It is no joke around here. If you do a spike trim and the co finds out ur fired no questions!


That's why I'd specialize if I had the option, I enjoy it far more and the money is much better, unfortunately that's not the world I live in, I will say this I've pruned the same trees for years regardless of gaffes, so if they are so detrimental why have these trees not died?


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## no tree to big (Jan 9, 2015)

DLCRL said:


> That's why I'd specialize if I had the option, I enjoy it far more and the money is much better, unfortunately that's not the world I live in, I will say this I've pruned the same trees for years regardless of gaffes, so if they are so detrimental why have these trees not died?


Dunno but I have also seen a tree that sent a million suckers out at each spike hole, that's not good...


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## Del_ (Jan 9, 2015)

DLCRL said:


> That's why I'd specialize if I had the option, I enjoy it far more and the money is much better, unfortunately that's not the world I live in, I will say this I've pruned the same trees for years regardless of gaffes, so if they are so detrimental why have these trees not died?



Not dying is not good enough.

My goal is to improve tree health and doing minimal damage to the trees we care for is paramount.

It's about working with the tree's biology.


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## DLCRL (Jan 9, 2015)

Del_ said:


> Not dying is not good enough.
> 
> My goal is to improve tree health and doing minimal damage to the trees we care for is paramount.
> 
> It's about working with the tree's biology.


I run into a lot of customers who don't care, "I shouldn't trim this now" "I don't care" "topping is an arcane practice" "I just want you to raise it up so it doesn't touch the house" "I shouldn't take a branch that large off a mature tree it won't compartmentilze properly and it will become a hollow point" "I don't care" this is what I deal with.


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## DLCRL (Jan 9, 2015)

I've read that you can barley tell that a tree was pruned if you do it properly, most customers don't want that, they want it pruned by the pound, and don't wish to pay for a proper pruning of just dead wood and suckers.


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## Del_ (Jan 10, 2015)

I joyfully drop those types like a hot potato and work towards a more educated client base that understands quality tree care is worth paying for.


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## DLCRL (Jan 10, 2015)

Del_ said:


> I joyfully drop those types like a hot potato and work towards a more educated client base that understands quality tree care is worth paying for.


Some of the big companies can afford to do that but their guys don't earn anywhere near as much as I do, at a hundred an hour I do what ever jobs come along, as long as it's not shrubs or topiaries, I barely do polesaw work I'm looking for trees that need to be climbed preferably removals.


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## mattfr12 (Jan 10, 2015)

The guy with the question is banned and this is from 2011. If you can't climb above your tie in point its obviously getting to small to Support your weight then I just used a telescopic pole saw. If its a removal its time to pop the top when you get to that point. I carry a few nylon straps with beaners on them if I get way out on a branch and am in fear of swing back. Just choke it to the branch and clip your climbing line in.


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## ATH (Jan 10, 2015)

Wow...I didn't catch that (post from 2011). Saw a bunch of new posts, and assume it was a new thread. Somebody pulled that up from the depths of AS!


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## Del_ (Jan 10, 2015)

mattfr12 said:


> The guy with the question is banned and this is from 2011. If you can't climb above your tie in point its obviously getting to small to Support your weight then I just used a telescopic pole saw. If its a removal its time to pop the top when you get to that point. I carry a few nylon straps with beaners on them if I get way out on a branch and am in fear of swing back. Just choke it to the branch and clip your climbing line in.



He's back.


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## Del_ (Jan 10, 2015)

DLCRL said:


> Some of the big companies can afford to do that but their guys don't earn anywhere near as much as I do, at a hundred an hour I do what ever jobs come along, as long as it's not shrubs or topiaries, I barely do polesaw work I'm looking for trees that need to be climbed preferably removals.



It's a shame that even earning that kind money that you chose to give our profession a black eye by refusing to do the best possible care for the trees.

BTW, welcome back. It's hard to imagine your stay here lasting very long.

At a minimum the mods should limit you to the Arborist 101 Forum.


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## KenJax Tree (Jan 10, 2015)

Del was this cartoon here before?


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## Del_ (Jan 10, 2015)

KenJax Tree said:


> Del was this cartoon here before?



My guess is that he was. Watch how this thread has unfolded to see his level of expertise at trolling an arborst forum.


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## DLCRL (Jan 10, 2015)

Del_ said:


> It's a shame that even earning that kind money that you chose to give our profession a black eye by refusing to do the best possible care for the trees.
> 
> BTW, welcome back. It's hard to imagine your stay here lasting very long.
> 
> At a minimum the mods should limit you to the Arborist 101 Forum.


The individuals I work for don't care it's a job, we're there to make money, there's too much competition, instead of charging $2500 to $3500 for a full day of trimming we'd have to charge $5 to $6 in order to make up for complexity and effort. I don't know to many that will pay that kind of money.


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## BC WetCoast (Jan 10, 2015)

I knew it. Hack


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## DLCRL (Jan 10, 2015)

BC WetCoast said:


> I knew it. Hack


You may call me a hack but I'm a very successful one, most of companies I work for have an A rating w/the BBB.
I'm here to make money, I prefer to play with blocks and pulleys, which on trims are seldom needed. Anyone who wants to break this into two industries I'm all for it but if you do I expect to earn just as much as I do now and stay just as busy. Trimming doesn't require a lot of cognitive thinking it's like being a stylist, but removals are a giant chess match, I'd do them exclusively if it was an option.


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## jomoco (Jan 10, 2015)

Most pro's post examples of their work with vids n pics n stuff to prove they're not just running their mouths?

100 bucks an hour?

You must be very good indeed?

I smell that faint but unmistakeable odor of BS here in this thread.

jomoco


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## Zale (Jan 10, 2015)

Faint smell? I think a strong wind is about to blow.


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## DLCRL (Jan 10, 2015)

Not me in the photo, actually he's the owner, got it down in about 6 hrs. It was unfortunately $2500 but I received $600


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## DLCRL (Jan 10, 2015)

We left it like that, homeowner wanted to build some kind kids fort on the spar. As you can tell better confines are tight.


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## DLCRL (Jan 10, 2015)

And here's one that took 15 minutes, for $2200 I still made $440


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## BuckmasterStumpGrinding (Jan 10, 2015)

You make 6 figures as a contract climber making 20% of the bid? You don't want to deal with employees so you give up 80% for someone to haul brush and make the sale?


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## DLCRL (Jan 10, 2015)

BuckmasterStumpGrinding said:


> You make 6 figures as a contract climber making 20% of the bid? You don't want to deal with employees so you give up 80% for someone to haul brush and make the sale?


Yes, but I only climb, I get paid cash, I'm gone as soon as I get down, at which point I go to the next job or company. I've no equipment to maintain or employees to placate. I've next nothing I need to put into equipment, I know the owners they can't afford to give themselves a salary much better than mine, not after insurance, workman's comp, taxes, in some cases a place park equipment and a shop not that I get salary from them.


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## Jed1124 (Jan 10, 2015)

DLCRL said:


> View attachment 393433
> And here's one that took 15 minutes, for $2200 I still made $440


You pieced that tree out in 15 minutes?


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## DLCRL (Jan 10, 2015)

Jed1124 said:


> You pieced that tree out in 15 minutes?


No all I had to do was hang a rope and pull it over, jobs like that make up for tedious trim jobs or under bid removals. As the main climber for one of the companies I've my gravy jobs as well as jobs that I look at and say you didn't charge enough.


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## Jed1124 (Jan 10, 2015)

It's Murph!


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## jomoco (Jan 10, 2015)

With all that money you'd think you could afford a GoPro and rock us all with your prowess at demolition tree work?

You may just be a phenom like Reg or Chisholm?

But we'll never know till yu post up proof mate.

jomoco


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## DLCRL (Jan 10, 2015)

jomoco said:


> With all that money you'd think you could afford a GoPro and rock us all with your prowess at demolition tree work?
> 
> You may just be a phenom like Reg or Chisholm?
> 
> ...


I don't have one, and let's face it to get a good video you need a couple of cameras, editing not unlike making a film. It'd be nice if you filmed it like COPS, just think TREES or CLIMBERS. I've a bunch of photos from my years.


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## jomoco (Jan 10, 2015)

Post em up bro!

Don't be shy.




jomoco


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## jefflovstrom (Jan 10, 2015)

KenJax Tree said:


> Del was this cartoon here before?



Dont you guys remember FTA?,,,he was a hoot! Look at some of his other classics.
Jeff


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## DLCRL (Jan 10, 2015)

jefflovstrom said:


> Dont you guys remember FTA?,,,he was a hoot! Look at some of his other classics.
> Jeff


Send a link to his photos Jeff, here's a 
photo


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## DLCRL (Jan 10, 2015)

And another I was right above the deck and patio, cut the whole top off and went for a ride.


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## jomoco (Jan 10, 2015)

Brawny lad to tote a 440 and a 200t around at the same time, no doubt!

Guerrilla huh?

Does this mean I better be nice to you cuz I'm a puny 160?

jomoco


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## DLCRL (Jan 10, 2015)

Coming down


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## DLCRL (Jan 10, 2015)

jomoco said:


> Brawny lad to tote a 440 and a 200t around at the same time, no doubt!
> 
> Guerrilla huh?
> 
> ...


I'm only that myself, I brag but I'm telling the truth on here, I'm just an exceptionally fortunate individual, who dropped out of school and found my calling. Most of contract climbers I know only from owners, they don't do as well because most of them have issues you can't count on them, people agree to pay more for me because I never let them down. You guys have probably dealt w/climbers be they contract or yours, they not only can't make it, they didn't even call, I'm sure you don't keep them long if that's the case, so you're ready to do a job and can't even reach this guy. And in a lot cases for companies I know, if the climber isn't there the job can't get done because no one else including the owner climbs.


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## KenJax Tree (Jan 10, 2015)

jefflovstrom said:


> Dont you guys remember FTA?,,,he was a hoot! Look at some of his other classics.
> Jeff


Yeah I remember FTA.....AA too


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## jefflovstrom (Jan 10, 2015)

DLCRL said:


> Send a link to his photos Jeff, here's a View attachment 393457
> photo



You have to go to the search button to see who FTA was,,I dont know his phone number.
Jeff


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## DLCRL (Jan 10, 2015)

Again not myself in the photo, I saved a lot time not roping this down.


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## KenJax Tree (Jan 10, 2015)

how much did it cost to replace that fence. No shirt and shorts....what a hack


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## DLCRL (Jan 10, 2015)

KenJax Tree said:


> how much did it cost to replace that fence


Wasn't an issue I let the tips hit the ground but tied off the butt end so it was suspended over the fence.


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## DLCRL (Jan 10, 2015)

KenJax Tree said:


> how much did it cost to replace that fence. No shirt and shorts....what a hack


Again that wasn't me, it was summer he found the job, someone calls up w/work I show up, in his case though I use my trailer he finds labor, I make about 60%, do you wear any PPE from your waist to your neck when it's summer?


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## jefflovstrom (Jan 10, 2015)

I still don't get why some feel the need to talk about their money,,small
jeff


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## DLCRL (Jan 10, 2015)

jefflovstrom said:


> I still don't get why some feel the need to talk about their money,,small
> jeff


Well there are threads on here that ask that specific question, and it is conventional way of measuring career success.


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## jefflovstrom (Jan 10, 2015)

DLCRL said:


> Well there are threads on here that ask that specific question, and it is conventional way of measuring career success.



What?,,As long as I have been here, nobody has asked me how much I make. 
Jeff


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## Zale (Jan 10, 2015)

DLCRL- you seem to like poking a lot of the bears around here. Money and the amount you make is not the end all be all. Just remember, one day your going to be slower and there will be someone faster and cheaper than you. Its not a matter of if but when. I hope you're saving all that money because that day will come. Be safe.


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## DLCRL (Jan 10, 2015)

Zale said:


> DLCRL- you seem to like poking a lot of the bears around here. Money and the amount you make is not the end all be all. Just remember, one day your going to be slower and there will be someone faster and cheaper than you. Its not a matter of if but when. I hope you're saving all that money because that day will come. Be safe.


Check out the thread on here where someone asked"How long do you intend to climb" there are guys who are my seniors still going strong, I intend to keep going until it's no longer profitable and fun, seriously they are 50 and 60 even.


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## KenJax Tree (Jan 10, 2015)

DLCRL said:


> Check out the thread on here where someone asked"How long do you intend to climb" there are guys who are my seniors still going strong, I intend to keep going until it's no longer profitable and fun, seriously they are 50 and 60 even.


And when they can't do it anymore they probably have money saved to retire....what are you gonna have besides your BMW?


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## Zale (Jan 10, 2015)

DLCRL said:


> Check out the thread on here where someone asked"How long do you intend to climb" there are guys who are my seniors still going strong, I intend to keep going until it's no longer profitable and fun, seriously they are 50 and 60 even.



No doubt there are older climbers still doing it but they tend to be the exception and not the rule.


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## DLCRL (Jan 10, 2015)

KenJax Tree said:


> And when they can't do it anymore they probably have money saved to retire....what are you gonna have besides your BMW?


I didn't break the bank to buy that car, it's 40k by August it was paid til April it's just an affordable toy, if put my mind to it I can have $300k put away in 5 years, what's the point of making a good living if you never have fun and spend anything on frivolous pursuits?


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## DLCRL (Jan 10, 2015)

Zale said:


> No doubt there are older climbers still doing it but they tend to be the exception and not the rule.


That may be, but it plays into my wheelhouse, I live for being the exception and I am in many instances.


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## pro94lt (Jan 10, 2015)

Why a bmw? Climbers like zl1 camaros, 5.0 mustangs z06 vettes, hellcat challengers........ cars with balls!!!


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## ATH (Jan 10, 2015)

What is the difference between a BMW and a porcupine?


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## KenJax Tree (Jan 10, 2015)

Same difference as a rose bush


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## DLCRL (Jan 10, 2015)

It's lot of fun to drive and handles like it's on rails, I've owned Camaros a Trans Am none of them handled like my Z4, I don't know if I'll ever buy a sports car w/o backseat again.


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## BuckmasterStumpGrinding (Jan 10, 2015)

I'll bite Jeff. How much do you make driving around in a collared shirt telling all your crews what to do? You probably do make a bazillion dollars a year if it keeps you out of the trees.


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## BC WetCoast (Jan 10, 2015)

DLCRL said:


> Trimming doesn't require a lot of cognitive thinking it's like being a stylist, but removals are a giant chess match, I'd do them exclusively if it was an option.



Then why do the munis require trained and certified people to do their prunes while the removals are usually done by Two Crackheads and a Pickup.

Removals are intellectually easy. Proper pruning requires the thought.


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## DLCRL (Jan 10, 2015)

BC WetCoast said:


> Then why do the munis require trained and certified people to do their prunes while the removals are usually done by Two Crackheads and a Pickup.
> 
> Removals are intellectually easy. Proper pruning requires the thought.


I've only ever smoked pot in my life it's probably been 5 years since I did, I'd rather let the later do trims as opposed to them handling the sensitive, destructive potential of a removal, I mean let's face it even if the trim is near the house, the destruction inflicted would be minimal compared to a removal.


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## BuckmasterStumpGrinding (Jan 10, 2015)

Most of us have respect for a 100 year old asset that a hack can destroy in a couple hours with a bad prune.


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## DLCRL (Jan 10, 2015)

BuckmasterStumpGrinding said:


> Most of us have respect for a 100 year old asset that a hack can destroy in a couple hours with a bad prune.


Hey if the customer is happy, the owner is happy, then I'm happy. An asset is something that you own has cash value and can be sold for monetary gain.


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## Del_ (Jan 11, 2015)

DLCRL said:


> Hey if the customer is happy, the owner is happy, then I'm happy. An asset is something that you own has cash value and can be sold for monetary gain.



Properly cared for trees are such an asset.

They can quickly be devalued out of ignorance on both the owner's and contractor's ignorance.

People often don't realize that the 'good price' they thought they were getting on sub standard tree care actually resulted in a 'big loss' in property value.

Spiking prunes are a prime example usually compounded by the climber (note I didn't say 'arborist') not knowing what do prune once in the tree.


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## DLCRL (Jan 11, 2015)

Look up asset, it's only an asset if it's desired by the homeowner, example a pool can be a benefit or liability depending on the buyer, an asset is something tangible that you own that can be sold to another individual for monetary compensation. The only trees that fit that definition would be located at a nursery.


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## DLCRL (Jan 11, 2015)

Del_ said:


> Properly cared for trees are such an asset.
> 
> They can quickly be devalued out of ignorance on both the owner's and contractor's ignorance.
> 
> ...


A desirable tree, oak, cherry, walnut ect. over 16" in diameter cut in 8' or 16' foot lengths is an asset.


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## ATH (Jan 11, 2015)

hth


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## Zale (Jan 11, 2015)

DLCRL said:


> That may be, but it plays into my wheelhouse, I live for being the exception and I am in many instances.[/QUOTE
> 
> Your sense of humility is touching.


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## DLCRL (Jan 11, 2015)

Hey most customers want a climber w/hubris, hell I want a mechanic, attorney ect. w/hubris, I sure the hell don't want to hire someone who's hemming and hawing, not sure of the outcome.


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## jomoco (Jan 11, 2015)

You've already used up one life from making a huge mistake mate.

You got lucky once. I suggest you examine your climbing methods, and reinforce your safety methods to insure you don't hit the ground again?

A little humility might just be the thing that keeps you alive my friend?

jomoco


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## DLCRL (Jan 11, 2015)

jomoco said:


> You've already used up one life from making a huge mistake mate.
> 
> You got lucky once. I suggest you examine your climbing methods, and reinforce your safety methods to insure you don't hit the ground again?
> 
> ...


I have, that was a long time ago nearly a quarter of my life, I've not even came close to that kind of mistake, I always check points of attachment, and when I'm blocking down I've my climbing line and my buckstrap wrapped around the spar. BTW it wasn't in the confines of this industry, but I've used up a lot of my 9 lives. When I was 16 I was broad sided on a bicycle by a big Oldsmobile police report said I flew through the air 110 feet, I stood up and was going to limp home, an ambulance came, at the hospital they cleaned asphalt out of my knee, just a laceration, put stitches in it and couple in lip. I was sore but fine nothing broken. So once again I was the exception.


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## Del_ (Jan 11, 2015)

DLCRL said:


> Look up asset, it's only an asset if it's desired by the homeowner, example a pool can be a benefit or liability depending on the buyer, an asset is something tangible that you own that can be sold to another individual for monetary compensation. The only trees that fit that definition would be located at a nursery.



Evidently there is a whole aspect of arboriculture that you are unaware of.


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## DLCRL (Jan 11, 2015)

Del_ said:


> Evidently there is a whole aspect of arboriculture that you are unaware of.
> 
> 
> View attachment 393673


No I get it, I like big mature trees, I just don't enjoy having to trim them, I'd much rather trade jobs w/someone who enjoys that aspect of job and they can give me a removal of equal value, in a perfect industry. But by definition a tree isn't an asset unless it's a sapling or lumber, it's a resource.


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## Del_ (Jan 11, 2015)

DLCRL said:


> No I get it, I like big mature trees, I just don't enjoy having to trim them, I'd much rather trade jobs w/someone who enjoys that aspect of job and they can give me a removal of equal value, in a perfect industry. But by definition a tree isn't an asset unless it's a sapling or lumber, it's a resource.



You can repeat it as often as you like, you are still wrong by definition.


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## DLCRL (Jan 11, 2015)

Del_ said:


> You can repeat it as often as you like, you are still wrong by definition.


Then explain how an oak tree let's say 3 feet in diameter can be sold to another individual in exchange for monetary compensation, aside from being made into saw logs, if healthy trees were an asset rather than paying us to take them down if they are unwanted homeowners would sell them. You don't generally destroy an asset if you don't want it, you sell it.


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## jomoco (Jan 11, 2015)

DLCRL said:


> I have, that was a long time ago nearly a quarter of my life, I've not even came close to that kind of mistake, I always check points of attachment, and when I'm blocking down I've my climbing line and my buckstrap wrapped around the spar. BTW it wasn't in the confines of this industry, but I've used up a lot of my 9 lives. When I was 16 I was broad sided on a bicycle by a big Oldsmobile police report said I flew through the air 110 feet, I stood up and was going to limp home, an ambulance came, at the hospital they cleaned asphalt out of my knee, just a laceration, put stitches in it and couple in lip. I was sore but fine nothing broken. So once again I was the exception.



Tell us about the 40 foot fall mate?

How'd it happen?

Were you tied in, cut your line with a chainsaw?

jomoco


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## DLCRL (Jan 11, 2015)

jomoco said:


> Tell us about the 40 foot fall mate?
> 
> How'd it happen?
> 
> ...


It was a simple mistake, I'd spent 2 weeks dealing w/storm damage, just found out they found the co-owners body he'd been missing a month, so the following day I'm doing my own job, I was ripping apart a basswood, lots of thoughts running through my mind, I untie my line to reset lower on the the tree. I was taking off the lead I was tied into, I became distracted forgot to tie my line and went to swing around to the back side of the spar, it was only a barber pole besides the limb I was tied into that I was about to take off. So I went to swing landed flat, was in and out of consciousness, woke up in the hospital w/a broken wrist.


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## jomoco (Jan 11, 2015)

So essentially you forgot you weren't tied in?

jomoco


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## Del_ (Jan 11, 2015)

DLCRL said:


> Then explain how an oak tree let's say 3 feet in diameter can be sold to another individual in exchange for monetary compensation, aside from being made into saw logs, if healthy trees were an asset rather than paying us to take them down if they are unwanted homeowners would sell them. You don't generally destroy an asset if you don't want it, you sell it.




Real estate brings higher prices with well cared for trees.

In neighborhoods with well cared for trees individual houses appraise at higher values.

This is economics 101.

Arboriculture 101, too.


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## DLCRL (Jan 11, 2015)

jomoco said:


> So essentially you forgot you weren't tied in?
> 
> jomoco


Yes that would be an accurate assessment.


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## Zale (Jan 11, 2015)

DLCRL said:


> Hey most customers want a climber w/hubris, hell I want a mechanic, attorney ect. w/hubris, I sure the hell don't want to hire someone who's hemming and hawing, not sure of the outcome.




Humility is not the same as hemming and hawing. You can have complete confidence in the job your doing but still be humble.


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## DLCRL (Jan 11, 2015)

Del_ said:


> Real estate brings higher prices with well cared for trees.
> 
> In neighborhoods with well cared for trees individual houses appraise at higher values.
> 
> ...


That makes them attributes they are only good to owner of property, the property is an asset, or they may be a liability if the owner or buyer does not desire them, you don't buy an expensive car remove the fully loaded leather seats and refer to them then, as an asset. The car is an asset the seats are an option, and if the buyer hates leather they become a liability. A land developer does not look at all the trees in a potential neighborhood as assets, some are liabilities. If they were assets he could sell them and make a profit instead of bulldozing them out of the way. They are many positive things, But an asset is something you own unto itself that you can exchange for for monetary compensation.


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## jomoco (Jan 11, 2015)

Nothin worse than an ungrateful buzzard feedin on death!

I still do my little ritual of apologizing for murdering one of god's noblest creations, and thanking Him for providing the sustenance to feed and shelter my family and I.

Then, it gets ugly as the devil in me's unleashed, and smart groundies stand back!

jomoco


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## DLCRL (Jan 11, 2015)

jomoco said:


> Nothin worse than an ungrateful buzzard feedin on death!
> 
> I still do my little ritual of apologizing for murdering one of god's noblest creations, and thanking Him for providing the sustenance to feed and shelter my family and I.
> 
> ...


I've let trees stand til fledgling hawks flew away in a couple of months, I've lowered raccoon kits to the ground in a 5gallon bucket, I'm there to remove a tree because that's what the company owner or customer wants, I'm not there to hurt the animals that call the tree home, but if I don't take it down someone else will.


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## Del_ (Jan 11, 2015)

DLCRL said:


> That makes them attributes they are only good to owner of property, the property is an asset, or they may be a liability if the owner or buyer does not desire them, you don't buy an expensive car remove the fully loaded leather seats and refer to them then, as an asset. The car is an asset the seats are an option, and if the buyer hates leather they become a liability. A land developer does not look at all the trees in a potential neighborhood as assets, some are liabilities. If they were assets he could sell them and make a profit instead of bulldozing them out of the way. They are many positive things, But an asset is something you own unto itself that you can exchange for for monetary compensation.



*Increase Your Home's Value With Mature Trees*
By Valerie Finholm, FrontDoor.com
Well-maintained yards can fetch a higher price and quicker sale

Towering trees on your property provide more than beauty -- they increase the value of your home.
Several recent nationwide surveys show that mature trees in a well-landscaped yard can increase the value of a house by 7 percent to 19 percent.

A lush lawn with flower gardens is pretty, but didn't add to the value of a house, the surveys showed.



Continued at link:

http://www.frontdoor.com/real-estate/increase-your-homes-value-with-mature-trees


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## DLCRL (Jan 11, 2015)

Del_ said:


> *Increase Your Home's Value With Mature Trees*
> By Valerie Finholm, FrontDoor.com
> Well-maintained yards can fetch a higher price and quicker sale
> 
> ...


I'm not denying they are beneficial, but look up the definition of the term Asset, I've given you the definition and trees can not be sold as an asset. Trees come with property they can't be sold unless they are lumber or saplings, they don't fit the criteria of asset, yes they can increase your homes value and be beautiful, but they aren't the definition of asset.


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## jomoco (Jan 11, 2015)

Go spout your rookie BS in the logging forum mate!

They need a good laugh too!

jomoco


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## DLCRL (Jan 11, 2015)

jomoco said:


> Go spout your rookie BS in the logging forum mate!
> 
> They need a good laugh too!
> 
> jomoco


Why do you think I'm a rookie?


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## Del_ (Jan 11, 2015)

DLCRL said:


> I'm not denying they are beneficial, but look up the definition of the term Asset, I've given you the definition and trees can not be sold as an asset. Trees come with property they can't be sold unless they are lumber or saplings, they don't fit the criteria of asset, yes they can increase your homes value and be beautiful, but they aren't the definition of asset.





Trees fit the definition of 'asset'.



as·set
ˈaset/
_noun_
noun: *asset*; plural noun: *assets*
a useful or valuable thing, person, or quality.
"quick reflexes were his chief asset"
synonyms: benefit, advantage, blessing, good point, strong point, selling point, strength, forte, virtue, recommendation, attraction, resource, boon, merit, bonus, plus, pro


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## DLCRL (Jan 11, 2015)

Del_ said:


> Trees fit the definition of 'asset'.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wasn't the definition I found, I hear the term and think of it in a legal context, going after a persons assets. You're right I forgot it can be used in that context.


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## jomoco (Jan 11, 2015)

DLCRL said:


> Why do you think I'm a rookie?



Because every pro in this industry that I know think of trees as an extremely valuable asset for both people and the planet.

Quit talkin like a rookie, and I'll quit callin yu one, deal?

jomoco


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## DLCRL (Jan 11, 2015)

jomoco said:


> Because every pro in this industry that I know think of trees as an extremely valuable asset for both people and the planet.
> 
> Quit talkin like a rookie, and I'll quit callin yu one, deal?
> 
> jomoco


They are, I'd love to have a yard w/mature burr oaks, live oaks would be fantastic but I don't live in Florida. But my livelihood, where I do best is removals, and people will always want trees removed. As far the planet, the planet won't suffer because I surgically remove an unwanted tree even if it's healthy because a customer wants a pool or deck. That comes from mowing down forests, like the Amazon and the Pacific northwest, I just want to get up have a destination to go to in the morning, put difficult to remove trees on the ground, get paid very well to do it. I don't wish to log and clear cut that's no fun, at least not to me. I provide a service that you couldn't pay the average person to do, I'm sure you've heard a customer say "you couldn't pay me enough to do that".


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## Jed1124 (Jan 11, 2015)

I have been reading through this, posted some, ignored most. DLCRL is a tree cutter not a arborist. That's fine. But there is a difference. I wonder how much of this is him just trying to get the goat of some of the few remaining arborists on this site. I also wonder if he has not been here before and just trying to get under the skin of folks here. If your making a ton of money cutting trees, I'm happy for you. Most of the guys that I know that are great at what they do don't talk much about it. I climb but I'm a shitty climber. That being said I work for one of the best climbers in the world. He's competed in climbing world wide and has the trophies to show for it. Thing is, he's not very quick to talk about how great he is or talk about how much money he makes. I'm a PHC guy. I love trees. I love what I do. I love to care for trees. That's what arborculture is all about, caring for trees. To say a tree is not a asset is just ignorant. A couple of the guys have pointed you to tree appraisal links and you just have not payed much attention. Check out Perdue's website. Google Perdue tree appraisal. Do you think these unversities, Perdue being one of them, spend the time and the money assesing a value to something that does not exist? Trees ad value enviromentally, they improve the beauty of a home site, and they are something that links the homeowner with times past, when great trees dotted the landcape. They ARE a asset. They improve the value a property. How can you say something that is 100 maybe 200 years old is not something to be valued? You can't replace it. If you wanted to it would take maybe three lifetimes. Maybe the great money you are making clouded your view a bit. It has to many. This is one of the times I wish treeseer was around. Me and him have locked horns a bit, but boy that man loves trees.


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## Del_ (Jan 11, 2015)

Thanks Jed.


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## DLCRL (Jan 11, 2015)

I don't sell much, I show up and give the customers or company owner what they asked for, I'm not out there talking people into removing their trees, people have all kinds of reasons some valid and some purely self serving, but most have one thing in common, they want the tree down w/o it landing on insert structure of your choice here. And that's where I come in.


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## BC WetCoast (Jan 12, 2015)

For your edification.

https://www.itreetools.org/

As soon as they put restrictive tree removal bylaws in your hamlet, like many other municipalities around, you'll be able to tell us how you're making $15k/yr as a Walmart greeter, and own your own shopping cart.

Restrictive tree removal bylaws are instituted because the populace sees the urban forest as a non-tangible asset for their town.

The use of the term non-tangible asset has been in place for at least 20 years. Look it up, it's in the books.


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## DLCRL (Jan 12, 2015)

BC WetCoast said:


> For your edification.
> 
> https://www.itreetools.org/
> 
> ...


It won't be a problem here, we have an abundance of trees, the city foresters have very little affect on what I do, I know my way around them. It's one of my assets.


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## Zale (Jan 12, 2015)

I suggest you read the tale of Icarus.


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## NCTREE (Jan 12, 2015)

DLCRL's way of thinking is what's wrong with this country, short term profit is more important than long term conservation. I gave up along time ago trying to convince people to see things different. The only thing I can do is think about my children and there children and the children after them that will have to live with my choice to put personal greed above the overall good and survival of our existence, at this point im just hoping mother earth takes us out sooner than later. I could never understand the thinking behind the belief that the earth is an endless supply of resources that is here for me to take with nothing in return. Scew the earth, and Screw you it's all about me me me, god will always protect and provide as long as I carry out his plan. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## NCTREE (Jan 12, 2015)

http://www.mysteriousplaces.com/Easter_Island/html/story.html


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DLCRL (Jan 12, 2015)

NCTREE said:


> DLCRL's way of thinking is what's wrong with this country, short term profit is more important than long term conservation. I gave up along time ago trying to convince people to see things different. The only thing I can do is think about my children and there children and the children after them that will have to live with my choice to put personal greed above the overall good and survival of our existence, at this point im just hoping mother earth takes us out sooner than later. I could never understand the thinking behind the belief that the earth is an endless supply of resources that is here for me to take with nothing in return. Scew the earth, and Screw you it's all about me me me, god will always protect and provide as long as I carry out his plan.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


We wouldn't have to conserve so much if more were forward thinking. In 1960 we had about 180 million in this country, today 315 million. I've reduced my carbon footprint exponentially I live my life for myself, and since I've no progeny I feel I deserve fraction of resources they would have consumed, can you make this claim? I received this place used, no one worried about what looked like before I received it. No one is regulating how many are allowed to live here so that resources are more evenly divided. There are those here that receive a free ride that you're paying for. I've never received welfare or unemployment, I'm self sufficient, more importantly am I close enough to anyone posting that I'm personally impacting them? No one here is impacting myself, so I really don't care. That's part of the problem w/this country, everyone is interfering, instead of concentrating on their own affairs.


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