# Slash fire methods



## northmanlogging (Nov 16, 2016)

Whats yer favorite "legal" fire starting tricks and burn em faster methods.

Today was a half a bale of straw, and a weed burner, no other fluids required... Pic just fer fun... (probably gonna end up as a Yule card)

Fire dept was called at least twice on me today... so I had to keep the fire to a minimum size, but still burned about 1/4 of the slash on this project in around 8 hours.


----------



## windthrown (Nov 16, 2016)

You were called on in this weather? I have heard about the newer fire requirements in WA. In OR, we have to burn slash by law, and they generally leave us alone to do that here. I have torched off hundreds of slash burns, some with piles the size of my house, and I never had a fire official show up here, ever. No calls or harassment from the DEQ either. 

I started out using kerosene, but that burns too slow and it is way too expensive. So I flipped to using gasoline, and that worked well, but it burns too fast. Both are not 'legal' though. I switched to using cardboard as an accelerant and less gas as an ignition source, which works well and what I still use at times. I also burn ground wasp nests with gas at night, because I have tried everything else, and that is the only thing that works. I bought a propane burner for burning weeds and I got the idea to use it for starting slash fires, and that is what I use the most now. I also add cardboard for that extended hot burn start, similar to what you use with straw. I never tried straw or hay bales. I heard that using pallets to start slash pile fires works well too, but I do not like leaving nails around. 

Here is my ex in a silhouette in a night slash burn in Southern Oregon. We had hundreds of these there, because the former owners did not clean up after their logging operation there, and we were liable for burning the slash by law.


----------



## 2dogs (Nov 16, 2016)

If it is allowed Sure Gel works great. It is a jelling agent for gasoline, sort of like dissolving Styrofoam in gasoline. I pre-place the little blivets, zip-top bags with the gel inside, at various places on and in the pile. When the fire gets to each blivet it really adds some heat.

These days I use a blower set on idle or a little above to force more air into the pile. Just set it and forget about it.


----------



## northmanlogging (Nov 17, 2016)

This is a residential burn, nosy neighbor calls everyone in on even a little fire... so the local FD has to respond, they seemed as annoyed as I was.

Because of the Pungent Sound Clean Air Authority (pun intended) you have to have a permit for King and Snohomish county, technically I can only burn in a 5x5 pile... If it where a straight forward clearing or timber harvest, then I could have gone through the DNR and burned a pile so big it could maybe be seen from space... not that there was room for those kind of shenanigans... but it would have been fun. It also would have been mostly burned in one day... So now the neighbors can ***** for most of a week.

This Sure Gel stuff, where do you find it? Seems like it would have some kind of control on who can buy it.


----------



## northmanlogging (Nov 17, 2016)

Also picking up a blower today... should have gotten one last night or earlier in the week, the Dumper Truck had other plans.


----------



## slowp (Nov 18, 2016)

A friend has one of those propane torches and lets it fire into the pile for a while. After it gets going a bit, the leaf blower is used. Don't forget to chunk it.


----------



## madhatte (Nov 18, 2016)

4:1 diesel:gasoline is a good dependable mix.


----------



## ChoppyChoppy (Nov 18, 2016)

Couple old tires in the bottom of the pile works well.


----------



## northmanlogging (Nov 18, 2016)

So the fire captain showed up yesterday and shut me down... on account of "wind" and a neighbor called his boss... as well as 911 multiple times.


So I will try again monday.

Yes tires work good, but tires get folks down here in trouble, lots of black smoke.


----------



## slowp (Nov 18, 2016)

northmanlogging said:


> So the fire captain showed up yesterday and shut me down... on account of "wind" and a neighbor called his boss... as well as 911 multiple times.
> 
> 
> So I will try again monday.
> Yes tires work good, but tires get folks down here in trouble, lots of black smoke.



And then you gotta pick up the wires.


----------



## slowp (Nov 18, 2016)

madhatte said:


> 4:1 diesel:gasoline is a good dependable mix.



Yes, but for green slash during rainy season it takes a bit more than a drip torch. For my little piles, which I usually have a permit to burn, I use a fusee, a block of that waxy fire starter stuff, and a few pieces of dry firewood. That gets it going but wouldn't be practical for logging slash piles.


----------



## slowp (Nov 18, 2016)

I'd come up and help but I'd have to drive through the bad place.


----------



## ChoppyChoppy (Nov 18, 2016)

slowp said:


> And then you gotta pick up the wires.



Old tires don't have much for wires, least none I've burned did. Mostly just some wires around the bead area and that's it.

Should have seen the tire guys face when I said "he'll no I'm not paying $14 a tire for disposal, those make great fire starters!"


----------



## catbuster (Nov 18, 2016)

Find a lot of small, dry stuff, pack some dryer lint into it, put it in the middle. Get it lit, apply forced air (leaf blower), increasing until you get it going. It may take a while, but it's completely legal.


----------



## northmanlogging (Nov 18, 2016)

On this 4-1 diesel gas mix that 4 parts diesel? never used this witchcraft stuff... but they have these bitchin legal flame throwers...


----------



## catbuster (Nov 19, 2016)

northmanlogging said:


> On this 4-1 diesel gas mix that 4 parts diesel? never used this witchcraft stuff... but they have these bitchin legal flame throwers...



Yup. 4 parts diesel to one part gasoline. It gives you the stability of diesel while lowering the flash point a bit with the gasoline. We use it in drip torches. Depending on what you're trying to burn, you can add more gas to like a 3:2 ratio. But more gas than that is a bad idea.

If you're dousing a big pile and then lighting it off use 4:1. You run less lf a risk of building up a vapor cloud and have it explode on you.


----------



## northmanlogging (Nov 19, 2016)

excellent...

Should run though the flamenwerfer fairly well as a liquid... Napalm would be better but I don't think the pump can handle the viscosity of proper napalm.


----------



## madhatte (Nov 19, 2016)

slowp said:


> Yes, but for green slash during rainy season it takes a bit more than a drip torch.



Solid point. 3:2 and 4:1 ratios mentioned above help.


----------



## slowp (Nov 20, 2016)

madhatte said:


> Solid point. 3:2 and 4:1 ratios mentioned above help.



Don't forget patience. Like barbecuing with coals, burning green piles takes patience. Nortman, if you get a drip torch, the way to get green stuff to maybe burn is to just stick the torch in the driest spot you can find, with fines, and let it drip away. I've heard of torches exploding, but never had it happen to me while doing this. 

The flame thrower also takes time. You do the same for it. Once you get a bit of heat going, keep working on feeding the flames. 

Patience, grasshoppah, patience.


----------



## 2dogs (Nov 20, 2016)

catbuster said:


> Yup. 4 parts diesel to one part gasoline. It gives you the stability of diesel while lowering the flash point a bit with the gasoline. We use it in drip torches. Depending on what you're trying to burn, you can add more gas to like a 3:2 ratio. But more gas than that is a bad idea.
> 
> If you're dousing a big pile and then lighting it off use 4:1. You run less lf a risk of building up a vapor cloud and have it explode on you.


3:2? Wow that is a super hot mix.


----------



## catbuster (Nov 20, 2016)

2dogs said:


> 3:2? Wow that is a super hot mix.



You bet. I don't use it that often. And not out of a drip torch.


----------



## madhatte (Nov 20, 2016)

2dogs said:


> 3:2? Wow that is a super hot mix.



You'd never use a mix that hot for a burnout operation, at least not on purpose. It'd spit all over the place. Burning piles in the rain is a different game. You've got to get enough heat in there to boil off all of the water so the fuel is available to burn. Alumagel, diesel, whatever works. Once the pile is going it's on its own but it's tough to get them started. I've seen the aforementioned torching torch happen. Super experienced DNR guy just left the nozzle end dripping into one side of the pile while he walked around to the other side to do something else. Of course, it was dropping fire the whole time, and built up a pretty good amount of heat, which of course boiled the fuel in the can, which of course pressurized it so that it was blowing out the fuel faster, which eventually overtook the can's ability to move the fuel at the same time as it got hot enough to get weak. Eventually the can split along one of the seams on the bottom and that was that. No more pressure from inside the can, it ran out of fuel, and the pile burned as planned. We recovered the slag of the destroyed torch as soon as it was cool enough to get that close to the pile.


----------



## ChoppyChoppy (Nov 20, 2016)

Can't wait till its dry? Like on one timber sale, we have to go burn this winter, it's 3-4 year old brush.


----------



## slowp (Nov 20, 2016)

Maybe it was 3 to 2 that was used when most of the crew had singed eyebrows? I seem to remember that there was some polluted helicopter fuel mixed in just to get rid of it. That caused lots of spurting-- no longer dripping drip torches and made things fun. 

I do recall back in the days of old growth landing piles, our fire guy pumping all the diesel out of the tank that was on his pickup, coming back and dumping more on the pile and repeating that for a few days. That was a green pile during the winter. I also helped him dump buckets of alumagel into a similar pile. He always got the piles to burn, it just took a lot of "resources" to do so.


----------



## ChoppyChoppy (Nov 20, 2016)

Jeez! The pile I burned a few weeks ago just took an old tire and abouta Fallon of diesel/oil engine oil!


----------



## slowp (Nov 20, 2016)

When you live in a rain forest, playing with matches won't do it.


----------



## northmanlogging (Nov 20, 2016)

slowp said:


> Don't forget patience. Like barbecuing with coals, burning green piles takes patience. Nortman, if you get a drip torch, the way to get green stuff to maybe burn is to just stick the torch in the driest spot you can find, with fines, and let it drip away. I've heard of torches exploding, but never had it happen to me while doing this.
> 
> The flame thrower also takes time. You do the same for it. Once you get a bit of heat going, keep working on feeding the flames.
> 
> Patience, grasshoppah, patience.



I've been covering the piles with a big tarp while I'm not there, gets at least the core a little drier... I can't burn a big pile so whats been working pretty good is get a big pile of coals going then plop a bucket or 3 of wet junk on top, repeat every 20 minutes or so.



ValleyFirewood said:


> Can't wait till its dry? Like on one timber sale, we have to go burn this winter, it's 3-4 year old brush.



Its a land clearing for a new home, soon as I'm gone the builders are going to move in and start on the house etc, can't wait until july.

Also we generally can't burn during the summers here on account of the burn bans and the never ending threat of wild fire. Its a rain forest yes, but during the summer it gets really dry at times, rain forest=thick ass brush, thick ass brush plus 2 weeks of no rain=dry thick ass brush, dry thick ass brush+brush ape+matches+wind=very bad day


----------



## 2dogs (Nov 21, 2016)

Another way to cover a pile that is going to sit through a rain storm or two is to cover the pile with craft paper. when you are ready to burn just pull off the paper and shove it under the pile and light it off. The very thin plastic painters tarps work well too and are cheap, less than a dollar for a big tarp. They are fragile too.

I prefer straight diesel or blivets on piles but I've never burned under your conditions.

No, don't use old tires. Ever. If you do I will not visit your dumb ass in jail.


----------



## madhatte (Nov 21, 2016)

slowp said:


> "resources"



Couldn't have understated it better myself.



2dogs said:


> don't use old tires. Ever. If you do I will not visit your dumb ass in jail.



BAHAHAHAHAHA brilliant!


----------



## ChoppyChoppy (Nov 21, 2016)

Gotcha. On those small jobs we use a fecon grinder. The bigger jobs (several hundred acres) get burned.


----------



## M.R. (Nov 21, 2016)

Big difference in this type of weed burner over the tomato can style ....... iirc 100K btu / 40K
.
It'll get a pre-heat into the metal too.
.
roofing felt / tar paper 15 or 30 lb. For a cover in the bottom half of the pile as well as a few feet wadded up to get the damper ones going...
Dog food sacks opened up....
lumber wrappers from the lumber yards, they going into the dumpster anyway. Wore out plastic tarps...
Whatever keep the wet off. ;-)


----------



## M.R. (Nov 21, 2016)




----------



## northmanlogging (Nov 21, 2016)

roofing paper, known as tar paper... is a lot like tires, so I'm not sure I could get away with torching them here. Nor am I willing to try.


----------



## catbuster (Nov 21, 2016)

One thing I forgot to mention is that a tiger torch is also your friend here. They attach to a propane (it's a propane accessory, Hank) tank and do like 500,000 BTU over about a 3" diameter circle. They work really well as an igniter.


----------



## slowp (Nov 21, 2016)

northmanlogging said:


> roofing paper, known as tar paper... is a lot like tires, so I'm not sure I could get away with torching them here. Nor am I willing to try.



You could always remove the tar paper before torching the pile. 

I've wondered about how legal it is to burn the plastic sheeting. It's what the sacred timber sale contract specified to use. A couple of operators burned their slash instead of going to the expense of using the plastic.


----------



## Woos31 (Nov 22, 2016)

Anybody ever stuff a handful of flares in the middle of a pile to aid in keeping flame going and get heat buildup for the material to dry and ignite? Say 4-5 of the big half hour burn flares and the leaf blower? I never have tried it but always wondered if it would work, although less exciting to flammable liquid and fuel mixtures. DON'T use foam...............you thought a tire smoked a lot .............I threw a large piece of foam that we had on a queen size bed right before dark the other night..............HOLY CRAP! Burns really good and fast but it looked like I dumped a drum of oil in it.


----------



## northmanlogging (Nov 22, 2016)

flares not a bad idea.

I try and keep as much plastic out of the fire as possible, I don't like plastic much to begin with and burning it is always a little sketchy.


----------



## slowp (Nov 23, 2016)

Flares are fusees and I use one to get things going. Way back in time, we carried a pack full of fusees and seal a meal alumigel (napalm). You dropped the baggie of alumigel into the seasoned (not green) pile and lit it with the fusee. And on to the next.


----------



## 1270d (Nov 23, 2016)

Skidder tires will keep it going for a while but are a little smokey. Have a bunch of leftovers to bury later as well..

I lit a pile last year with unleaded and the whole pile jumped a bit upon ignition. Have also dissolved styrofoam into gas to light a trash burner. It worked very well, and my eyebrows and the front part of my hair looked normal within a month.


----------



## Odog (Nov 24, 2016)

Try 5 gallons of methanol, that seems like pretty flammable stuff....


----------



## ChoppyChoppy (Nov 24, 2016)

1270d said:


> Skidder tires will keep it going for a while but are a little smokey. Have a bunch of leftovers to bury later as well..



Yeah I'd bet. At nearly $4k each it's not something we replace. The 648D wold need 2, but with chains it still pulls good.


----------



## ChoppyChoppy (Nov 24, 2016)

Odog said:


> Try 5 gallons of methanol, that seems like pretty flammable stuff....



I tossed an empty jug in the stove a while back. Damn thing blew out and flew right out the shop! (Vehicle door was open)


----------



## madhatte (Nov 24, 2016)

You don't want flashy fuels in a slash pile. You want something that will stick and burn awhile. When we mess with ratios, it's because the standards didn't work. Nobody who's been the business awhile will jump right to a hot mix. We all love our eyebrows too much for that.


----------



## ArtB (Nov 24, 2016)

Fun thread being in PNW and 'Pungnet' sound area also.

Just about anything except 1 wadded newspaper to start -- everything else technically illegal here. 3 ft dia fires in residential areas and ya gotta be sitting within 20 feet with a hot dog on a stick !
The housing developers around me have not been able to burn slash in this area of King Co for over 20 years, chpped and hauled away, usually in tub grinders.

In these here 'green days', have used crushed HDPE milk jugs for fire starters down by Mossyrock, smokeless and lots of BTUs. Save all my milk jugs for various uses anyway.

Did use some tires in the past in the early 70's, nothing beats old tires with some diesel inside the for starters. Old car seat foam worked pretty good back then also.

Comment on 'flash' ; Back in the 60's, a cousin in ND filled an old tractor inner tube with oxy acet to re-start a slash pile.
Dragged the tube into the smouldering remains*, when it ignited it blew the pile apart!
*with a 50 ft rope, cousin was not THAT dumb. -


----------



## northmanlogging (Nov 24, 2016)

This pile I'm working on currently is in the middle of a "nice" lake neighborhood, bunch of 1/2 acre lots in the middle of nowhere on a lake with an algae problem.

Using the weed burner is technically illegal but the fire dept looked the other way on that, their concern was the size of the pile, and assholes complaining about the smoke.

So the first day they where called roughly 20 minutes into starting it, still had the weed burner and some unburnt straw everywhere, later that day, they came out again and asked me to make the pile smaller (it was probably 20' and burnin real good)

The second day... got it burning quick and easy, already had a hot bed to work with, they probably would have left if the wind hadn't picked up a bit. Because of the wind they made me put it out, which was mostly fine since I was planning on letting it burn mostly out anyway after the last wad of stuff I'd just stacked on, since I had to go back to the day job fer 3 days anyway.

Torched it again on Tues, and it stared up real nice, 2-3 minutes with the weed burner and 10 minutes or so with the leave blower and it was back where I'd left off on thursday... of course then the wind picked up, so I didn't stack much more then what was immediately around the pile, and that mostly by hand.

I figure next week, I'll get er going good again, I think the neighbors mostly work during the day, so I'll burn hot in the morning and slow it down in the evenings.

Do what I can to get the pile burned, anything left will have to be hauled off, at $50 a ton plus trucking, so like $600 per 60 yd end dump. Or if I can get most of the brush burned up I'll use my little dumper truck, take a lot more trips, but then I'm not paying for a driver and his maintenance. And if I'm down to just stumps it won't be all that bad.


----------



## slowp (Nov 24, 2016)

Matt, that seems bass ackwards. I try to burn HOT if neighbors are around. A hot fire doesn't smoulder and the smoke is a bit thinner. In the words of our late fuels guy, You Got To Get That Column Built. He was the first fuels guy I ever worked for who actually tried not to smoke out the crew holding line. So, I'd (more of his words) Pour the heat in it and get it hot. But you know the temperament of the neighborhood so just tell me to .....off.


----------



## Odog (Nov 24, 2016)

madhatte said:


> You don't want flashy fuels in a slash pile. You want something that will stick and burn awhile. When we mess with ratios, it's because the standards didn't work. Nobody who's been the business awhile will jump right to a hot mix. We all love our eyebrows too much for that.


I get what you're saying, I was kinda being a smart a** with the methanol comment. I can see the reason for oily fuels


----------



## northmanlogging (Nov 24, 2016)

big and hot=clean and fast.

Its just nosy people with nothing better to do then ***** about their neighbors, so the fire is going to take 3 times as long, and be 6 times as smokey.

PSCAA is the big problem here, can't burn without a permit, DNR won't give a permit for LDA's, so I have to go through the Fire Dept, so the fire has to be small.

Meanwhile 5 miles away, where the brush would get hauled to, folks complain about the smell... of decomposing woody debris, which is releasing exactly the same amount of co2 as my fire is, but my fire arguably smells better, until some one makes me put it out... then its a little stinky...

Granted the fire releases more particulate, but its not harmful particulate, mostly silica some potassium chloride (lye), carbon, etc.

The ologists at PSCAA have deemed slash piles bad so burning is verboten.


----------



## Spotted Owl (Nov 24, 2016)

How early in the day can you start?


----------



## northmanlogging (Nov 24, 2016)

dawn to dusk


----------



## Spotted Owl (Nov 24, 2016)

Get a five gallon bucket, gear & bar oil buckets work good, if there's a little left over that's great. Add 4 gallons of gas, mixed gas takes down the poofyness, diesel works best but is tougher to light up. Run a couple bars of ivory soap through a cheese grater. Dump soap shavings into bucket of gas and stir. Add a couple sleeves of styro coffee cups. Let it thicken up a bit then slop some of it around with a good puddle in the middle. Torch it off right at daylight. It'll get everything going before the neighbors are up and moving for the day if you need to burn when they are going to be home. If there's any dark smoke it will be minimal and mixed in with the heavy starting smoke and steam. Don't burn the bucket.

Started up two green piles with this mix Monday. It worked and smoke was normal, we figured on a big cloud of blackness that didn't happen. If you use a lot it will send up black smoke. The big pile that got 3 full buckets, sent up some black. It's our new go to for burning, should be great on a seasoned pile.

If the neighbors complain, toss in a couple dollar store bags of potpourri.


Owl


----------



## president (Nov 24, 2016)

windthrown said:


> You were called on in this weather? I have heard about the newer fire requirements in WA. In OR, we have to burn slash by law, and they generally leave us alone to do that here. I have torched off hundreds of slash burns, some with piles the size of my house, and I never had a fire official show up here, ever. No calls or harassment from the DEQ either.
> 
> I started out using kerosene, but that burns too slow and it is way too expensive. So I flipped to using gasoline, and that worked well, but it burns too fast. Both are not 'legal' though. I switched to using cardboard as an accelerant and less gas as an ignition source, which works well and what I still use at times. I also burn ground wasp nests with gas at night, because I have tried everything else, and that is the only thing that works. I bought a propane burner for burning weeds and I got the idea to use it for starting slash fires, and that is what I use the most now. I also add cardboard for that extended hot burn start, similar to what you use with straw. I never tried straw or hay bales. I heard that using pallets to start slash pile fires works well too, but I do not like leaving nails around.
> 
> ...


did you burn her at the stake?


----------



## northmanlogging (Nov 24, 2016)

try not to burn distant relations at the stake, makes family reunions awkward


----------



## slowp (Nov 24, 2016)

That gives me an idea. Make a religious ceremony out of it and it'll be OK. Burning the pile that is, not people. When is Guy Fawkes day? Or have a St. Lucia festival on the 21 next month and torch it off. Lots of ceremonial (religious) possibilities out there.


----------



## northmanlogging (Nov 24, 2016)

Remember remember the fifth of november and the gun powder treason and plot...


Yule is the 21st, well its 12 days long really


----------



## madhatte (Nov 25, 2016)

Spotted Owl said:


> How early in the day can you start?



Howdy, Owl!


----------



## 1270d (Nov 25, 2016)

Spotted Owl said:


> Get a five gallon bucket, gear & bar oil buckets work good, if there's a little left over that's great. Add 4 gallons of gas, mixed gas takes down the poofyness, diesel works best but is tougher to light up. Run a couple bars of ivory soap through a cheese grater. Dump soap shavings into bucket of gas and stir. Add a couple sleeves of styro coffee cups. Let it thicken up a bit then slop some of it around with a good puddle in the middle. Torch it off right at daylight. It'll get everything going before the neighbors are up and moving for the day if you need to burn when they are going to be home. If there's any dark smoke it will be minimal and mixed in with the heavy starting smoke and steam. Don't burn the bucket.
> 
> Started up two green piles with this mix Monday. It worked and smoke was normal, we figured on a big cloud of blackness that didn't happen. If you use a lot it will send up black smoke. The big pile that got 3 full buckets, sent up some black. It's our new go to for burning, should be great on a seasoned pile.
> 
> ...




What is the soap for?


----------



## Spotted Owl (Nov 25, 2016)

madhatte said:


> Howdy, Owl!



Howdy.



1270d said:


> What is the soap for?



No idea. That's just what we mixed up. He brought the stuff. I think it's a thickening agent, but I also thought that was what the styro was for too. All I know is it works great, but don't get any on yourself, it sticks like glue and burns for quite a while. Mixing with diesel seemed to burn hottest, but it was a bit of a bugger to get started.



Owl


----------



## northmanlogging (Nov 25, 2016)

1270d said:


> What is the soap for?



old napalm trick, makes the fuel sticky and thick.

Used to be old formula Tide+naphtha+jet fuel/kerosene/diesel 

enough tide to thicken the fuel, enough naphtha to ensure a good start.

This is definitely not a mix I would suggest using for starting brush fires. Way more woosh then slow burn.

On the topic of liquid fire starters, Hydraulic fluid, automatic trans fluid, tractor trans, all burn real good, and hot fairly easy to light too, just a bit of paper, takes off better then diesel, and burns longer too.


----------



## windthrown (Nov 27, 2016)

northmanlogging said:


> So the fire captain showed up yesterday and shut me down... on account of "wind" and a neighbor called his boss... as well as 911 multiple times.
> 
> 
> So I will try again monday.
> ...



911? Man, that is forked up. Wind? Like anything is going to burn after several ~feet~ of rain this and last month? I sold some saws to two fallers in southern Washington a couple of years ago, and they talked about all the problems they have burning slash up there. We can burn out here in the Oregon Cascades if we are residents (not absentee) without a permit during non-fire restrictions. Burning slash, loggers in Oregon can pretty much burn whenever they want during the non fire season. Again, they have to do that by law. 

Sounds like you need a permit to burn flaming liberals.


----------



## windthrown (Nov 27, 2016)

Odog said:


> I get what you're saying, I was kinda being a smart a** with the methanol comment. I can see the reason for oily fuels



Another problem with methanol is that it burns without a visible flame. I watched several Indy 500 races where guys were running around trying to put out invisible flames. 

I like the idea of the 4:1 diesel:gas mix. Diesel burns like kerosene on its own, too slow. 

Now using the car seats mentioned above... that is a heck of a creative way to start fires! I would not do that though. Using tires is not a good idea either. I was in Colorado some years ago and they had this monster pile of tires west of Denver, several miles long and wide. It had been lighted on fire by lightening a year before and it was still burning. They had no way to put it out.


----------



## windthrown (Nov 27, 2016)

president said:


> did you burn her at the stake?



No, I did not. That was nearer to our early honeymoon phase. Also, it is her sister that is the ordained Wiccan. Her sister lives in Vermont though. Now, their mother? I would gladly toss a flare into the log pile under her feet.

Oddly I am also distantly related to my ex in the above photo, from the early New England colonial times. It drove her mother absolutely nuts that I am an 8th cousin to her. That line came through Fairfield, CT in the 17th century, where we are commonly descended from an accused witch, the judge presiding over that witch trial, and several witnesses at that trial. She was acquitted.


----------



## madhatte (Nov 27, 2016)

windthrown said:


> they talked about all the problems they have burning slash up there.



This is a late 80's/early 90's thing here, and it could be that I actually know the guy who did the "good science" that made "lop scatter crush" the preferred method rather than "pile and burn". Somehow the idea caught on VERY QUICKLY and now we're lashed to a 100-ton per day burn limit without scary permits from DNR and GOOD LUCK if you fall under PSCAA's jurisdiction. It's pretty stupid especially since the same jackalopes who gripe about smoke from woodburning stoves think absolutely nothing about their cars.


----------



## windthrown (Nov 28, 2016)

madhatte said:


> This is a late 80's/early 90's thing here, and it could be that I actually know the guy who did the "good science" that made "lop scatter crush" the preferred method rather than "pile and burn". Somehow the idea caught on VERY QUICKLY and now we're lashed to a 100-ton per day burn limit without scary permits from DNR and GOOD LUCK if you fall under PSCAA's jurisdiction. It's pretty stupid especially since the same jackalopes who gripe about smoke from woodburning stoves think absolutely nothing about their cars.



Well, a big issue that the greenies fail to realize is that methane has a greater impact on global warming (trapping more heat) than CO2 does *. Methane is created when wood rots or is eaten by termites, and not when it is burned. Its like the Germans getting all revved up on dumping nuclear power and burning wood pellets instead of burning coal, NG and oil. But the dirty little secret of burning wood chips and pellets is that it also puts a lot of CO2 into the air. It is cleaner than coal, and it is renewable after decades of growing time, but in the short run it is really no better. In the end the Chinese and Indians are going to burn coal anyway, so the impact will be nil, regardless of what we or the Europeans do about it. And this climate thing is going to take its course no matter what, even if we stopped all CO2 production tomorrow. 

As bad as Oregon is for all this environmental crap, Washington is always worse. Oregon is trying to catch up fast though. 

* The science behind the Methane (CH4) vs CO2 in the atmosphere argument here: As greenhouse gases go, methane is much more effective than carbon dioxide in heating the atmosphere. While methane only remains in the atmosphere for about 8 years compared to the 115 years for CO2, methane is much better at retaining heat within the atmosphere. In the end, one volume unit of methane will cause the same amount of warming as 23 volume units of CO2. Factoring for time in the atmosphere vs total heat trapped, it comes out to methane being about 60% worse than CO2 for its overall global warming impact. My greenie friends just do not want to believe this though. *shrug*


----------



## madhatte (Nov 28, 2016)

You are correct on all counts, especially your nuclear point. I am an ex-navy nuclear reactor operator and have been saying for years that the number one problem the public has with the idea of nuclear is how much the cooling towers look like mushroom clouds. People just don't get how clean those plants really are. Of course, you really can't run a civilian operator into the ground the way you can a military one, either, so there's also personnel issues, but that has nothing to do with the intrinsic safety of a modern pressurized-water reactor.


----------



## windthrown (Nov 28, 2016)

madhatte said:


> You are correct on all counts, especially your nuclear point. I am an ex-navy nuclear reactor operator and have been saying for years that the number one problem the public has with the idea of nuclear is how much the cooling towers look like mushroom clouds. People just don't get how clean those plants really are. Of course, you really can't run a civilian operator into the ground the way you can a military one, either, so there's also personnel issues, but that has nothing to do with the intrinsic safety of a modern pressurized-water reactor.



Ah, when I was considering enlisting in the Navy when I was 18, they wanted me for the nuclear reactor program. But the VietNam war had ended, and enlistment demand was very low. I wound up finishing my engineering degrees after several years off from college, and I wound up working for General Dynamics in San Diego on several advanced military programs toward the end of the Cold War. I am very pro nuke myself. There is nothing else that can replace fossil fuel given the current energy demand. But lo, Oregon banned N-plants and tore down the Trojan power plant about a decade ago. They also banned all oil refineries here, so we import our gasoline from Washington state. In northern Oregon we are split between Hydro, NG and coal here for electric generation, about 1/3 each. If they shut down the Boardman coal plant up river from here as planned, there will be a 35% shortfall on local energy production. Looks like Germany wants to do the same thing by ending N-plants, but what are they going to replace that with? The data show that N-plants are far less of a risk factor for public health, and burning coal actually puts far more radioactive material into the air than all the N-plants in existence, even with the failures at Fukashima, Chrenoble and 3-Mile Island. But public opinion says otherwise...


----------



## madhatte (Nov 28, 2016)

Yep. That's surely how it looks. Oh well, I guess. I'm out of that business now.


----------



## northmanlogging (Nov 30, 2016)

Just a little fire on a nice november morning


----------



## bitzer (Dec 1, 2016)

Here is another little one. Hehe. They started em with a 5 gallon propane tank and torch. They always liked burning on windy days. I hate working close to houses. Just finished a job up surrounded by them. No guff from anyone this time though.


----------



## northmanlogging (Dec 1, 2016)

So I went out there today just to check on things, since I have to work tomorrow I'd rather not be out all night waiting on a fire to burn out...

And the Fire Dept left me a nasty gram on the essavator door...

Seems that someone called before 8 or so this morning, and when the FD got there it was kinda smoldering, so no more burning on this project...

Called the Battalion Chief and had a pleasant conversation, guess they got multiple complaints. 

No fines or anything, chief was totally understanding, and wished me luck on disposing of the rest of the junk... 

Anyhow, I knew going into this particular burn that things were less then optimal, but got 3/4 of the slash burned, so it wasn't a complete wash.


----------



## bitzer (Dec 2, 2016)

That sucks. Next time do it like a band aid. I feel like you stretched it out too long. I learned that lesson the hard way. I cut the outskirts of a golf course one fall because it was around the corner from my last job. I had to wait til winter to cross the fairways so I left for a month or two. When I came back the members put he kibosh to the rest of the harvest. The good wood by the way. They didn't like the mess laying in the woods. Which was dumb because when the leaves were on no one would have been the wiser.


----------



## northmanlogging (Dec 2, 2016)

Not sure if I could have gotten away with fast and hot...

Remember the FD was called 20 minutes into the first lighting of the fire, ****ing thing was barely even smoking when they showed up the first time. They thought it was as stupid as I did.

They where called the morning after a small burn, not to mention how many times during the burn, so a smoldering pile of ash is what they responded too.


What it comes down to is the squeaky wheel getting the grease, meaning that he/she who complains loudest longest gets their way if only to shut the pricks up for a day or two.

the adjoining neighbors and folks across the street all warned me that even a small fire, like one they have for get togethers, gets the FD called on em.

Eventually, what will happen is a boy who cried wolf situation, the callers house will be on fire, or the woods themselves will be burning and the fire dept will just be sick of responding to this idiot, assume its just another back yard weeny roast and not show up.


----------



## bnmc98 (Dec 3, 2016)

You can always call the local fire or county departments and give them a heads up you are burning.
People always freak out when they see smoke and when they call the dept, they can put them at ease. Some people have no concept of something outside of their known little world.

We let ours sit for a year then touch them off with a small propane torch.


----------



## bitzer (Dec 3, 2016)

I just meant over the course of a few days. It's been a few weeks right? Ive had all kinds of fun land owner experiences believe me.


----------



## northmanlogging (Dec 4, 2016)

Only 4 actual days of burning, another day would have finished it...


----------



## olyman (Dec 10, 2016)

northmanlogging said:


> Only 4 actual days of burning, another day would have finished it...


damn foggy night......................been there.....


----------

