# Home made friction saver



## Treecutr (Dec 23, 2009)

I purchased a couple steel rings for making a friction saver. ( from Sherril Tree ) I plan to use either 1" nylon webbing, or rope, but would like suggestions as to what would be best/ better tahn the above. Also best knot to use for both above. I have never used a friction saver, so this is the start of my trial. Thanks!


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## Treecutr (Dec 23, 2009)

*one more thing*

Are nylon tow straps the same as for the friction savers you can buy?


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## treesquirrel (Dec 23, 2009)

Personally I'd use some 1 inch tubular webbing and a water knot.


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## Treecutr (Dec 23, 2009)

so throw the 2 rings on the webbing, and tie Water or beer knot to make full loop, or tie one ring to each end of webbing with a water knot. Not sure which, as I thought water knot was only for joining 2 ends together, not for securing something, let me know. Thanks.


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## WalterTreeCare (Dec 23, 2009)

*...this is what i did for mine, adjustable, safe and cheap as hell*

i used some 1/2" line, 2 different sized aluminum rings, some webbing, some BeeLine and a metal hanger. 

I attached the big ring on one side of the 1/2' line with a termination knot, then taped three pieces of metal hanger wire about 4'' long each along the 1/2'' line right below the knot. This is so when you retrieve from the ground it pops the knot out of the crotch and you wont jam the knot into the crotch, leaving you to go back up. then i tied a prusik with the beeline and attatched the small ring. The loose end of the 1/2'' line NEEDS to be knotted or taped like crazy so the bee line cant slip off the end. i shoved a couple small pieces of wire hanger in the end in a cross through the rope and wrapped the crap out of it with tape to create a stopper ball at the end. And viola, you have an adjustable friction saver that can be set (tree climbers companion will teach ya how to set from the ground, really easy) and retrieved from the ground. Cost about $15-$20, better than around $50 to $300 (http://www.sherrilltree.com/Profess...t/A-R-T-Rope-Guide-friction-management-system) 

Be safe


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## WalterTreeCare (Dec 23, 2009)

*....the webbing*

...the webbing is used as a friction saver for your friction saver, this is to keep the rope in good condition, remember this is your lifeline, keep it clean and neat. pull the rope through some the webbing, this sucks and isnt so easy, i used my cobra cable lube and a hanger to get it through. After its all said and done its night and day, smooth as butter my friend. MUCH better than pulling yourself up a locust, silver maple, ect. And will help to preserve the thin bark on trees such as beech, magnolia, ect


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## EdenT (Dec 23, 2009)

Hey Walter, any chance you could put a picture up for us?


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## treemandan (Dec 23, 2009)

Treecutr said:


> Are nylon tow straps the same as for the friction savers you can buy?



Uh oh.


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## treemandan (Dec 23, 2009)

WalterTreeCare said:


> i used some 1/2" line, 2 different sized aluminum rings, some webbing, some BeeLine and a metal hanger.
> 
> I attached the big ring on one side of the 1/2' line with a termination knot, then taped three pieces of metal hanger wire about 4'' long each along the 1/2'' line right below the knot. This is so when you retrieve from the ground it pops the knot out of the crotch and you wont jam the knot into the crotch, leaving you to go back up. then i tied a prusik with the beeline and attatched the small ring. The loose end of the 1/2'' line NEEDS to be knotted or taped like crazy so the bee line cant slip off the end. i shoved a couple small pieces of wire hanger in the end in a cross through the rope and wrapped the crap out of it with tape to create a stopper ball at the end. And viola, you have an adjustable friction saver that can be set (tree climbers companion will teach ya how to set from the ground, really easy) and retrieved from the ground. Cost about $15-$20, better than around $50 to $300 (http://www.sherrilltree.com/Profess...t/A-R-T-Rope-Guide-friction-management-system)
> 
> Be safe



What you described sounds to me to be nothing short of a Frankenstein. You taped coat hangers to the rope? Oh you gotta post some pics of this.


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## WalterTreeCare (Dec 23, 2009)

treemandan said:


> What you described sounds to me to be nothing short of a Frankenstein. You taped coat hangers to the rope? Oh you gotta post some pics of this.



hahaha, i know, it sounds friggin redonk but it works damn well, is safe, and makes it really easy to retrieve from the ground. i dont have a photo, so i call upon my unbelievable artistic skills...

...the pieces of metal create a rigid end so it pops out of the crotch


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## treemandan (Dec 23, 2009)

WalterTreeCare said:


> hahaha, i know, it sounds friggin redonk but it works damn well, is safe, and makes it really easy to retrieve from the ground. i dont have a photo, so i call upon my unbelievable artistic skills...
> 
> ...the pieces of metal create a rigid end so it pops out of the crotch



Whipping might work in place of the wire and should last a good long time. I can't imagine tape and wire holding up and it kinda sounds and looks like the wire would start to damage the rope. 
I have never used friction savers cause I knew I would get one stuck... all the way at the top... at 5pm ... on friday.


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## EdenT (Dec 23, 2009)

Crazy, like a fox! Does the prussik ever slip to the stopper not and give you a nervous moment? 
Like your artwork, probably better than a photo.


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## Treecutr (Dec 23, 2009)

What I ment by tow straps being the same was ment as in the same construction material and strengeth, or is there something special about the friction saver material, again I don't have one ( I would have said uh oh too if something sounds off to me LOL )


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## WalterTreeCare (Dec 23, 2009)

treemandan said:


> Whipping might work in place of the wire and should last a good long time. I can't imagine tape and wire holding up and it kinda sounds and looks like the wire would start to damage the rope.
> I have never used friction savers cause I knew I would get one stuck... all the way at the top... at 5pm ... on friday.



Yeah i could see that being a possibility, the idea is that the wire is only like 4" long and is taped against the rope. but i guess the ends could be a problem if not taped correctly. Another reason to always check your gear before climbs



EdenT said:


> Crazy, like a fox! Does the prussik ever slip to the stopper not and give you a nervous moment?
> Like your artwork, probably better than a photo.



Never has slipped, holds true baby.


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## lumberjack333 (Dec 23, 2009)

:jawdrop:

Something like this should suffice, no tape balls or bits of coat hanger needed


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## treemandan (Dec 23, 2009)

Walter, your friction saver looks more for spar work. If it was meant for using in crotches I would think you could do away with the prussic and just use a rope with to metal rings on each end. But I don't know though. Like I said I really don't see the need for them. I go up srt so friction is not a problem for me there. I could see useing yours where i sometimes use a choked strap and a beener for a TIP in places where I need the TIP to be somewhere a crotch is not. I have to go get it and usually I use this on TD's.
If I were going to make a friction saver I would do it like I said- two rings on the end of a rope, one at each end but in reality I would just buy one cause the one you can buy are tough as #### and worth the money.


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## treemandan (Dec 23, 2009)

Treectr, if you are looking for a way to acsend a tree with less friction you should try a different acsencion technique. If you are looking to reduce the friction caused to the tree I would suggest you look at Moss' rendition. Its just a tube the rope passes through instead of the crotch.


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## treemandan (Dec 23, 2009)

Treecutr said:


> What I ment by tow straps being the same was ment as in the same construction material and strengeth, or is there something special about the friction saver material, again I don't have one ( I would have said uh oh too if something sounds off to me LOL )



If you have a tow strap with a rating then it should be good for that rating. I would think a tow strap would be a little big for what you are intending. I would use tree climbing rope ( 16 strand) for ease of knots and durability.


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## lumberjack333 (Dec 23, 2009)

treemandan said:


> Walter, your friction saver looks more for spar work. If it was meant for using in crotches I would think you could do away with the prussic and just use a rope with to metal rings on each end. But I don't know though. Like I said I really don't see the need for them. I go up srt so friction is not a problem for me there. I could see useing yours where i sometimes use a choked strap and a beener for a TIP in places where I need the TIP to be somewhere a crotch is not. I have to go get it and usually I use this on TD's.
> If I were going to make a friction saver I would do it like I said- two rings on the end of a rope, one at each end but in reality I would just buy one cause the one you can buy are tough as #### and worth the money.



Agreed tmd, I use them only on take downs and remove by hand before I begin chunking down the spar. I probably have your luck as I too would be stuck going back up that 75ft ash I just finished deadwooding at 5:00 on Friday evening... haha funny almost feels like thats happened before


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## treemandan (Dec 23, 2009)

lumberjack333 said:


> Agreed tmd, I use them only on take downs and remove by hand before I begin chunking down the spar. I probably have your luck as I too would be stuck going back up that 75ft ash I just finished deadwooding at 5:00 on Friday evening... haha funny almost feels like thats happened before



Could you post a pic of your rig deployed/employed? Can you set your from the ground and get it back?


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## lumberjack333 (Dec 23, 2009)

Sorry no pics of it in use... Like i said, only use it on removals, spur up to tip, place friction saver, rappel down and begin limbing. Initially I tried installing and removing from ground, it worked a few times but then like you say... it got stuck in a tight crotch of a Sugar Maple. Needless to say that was the last time I ever used it in that manner. Simple fixed length steel or aluminum ring models work much better in that application.


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## treemandan (Dec 23, 2009)

lumberjack333 said:


> Sorry no pics of it in use... Like i said, only use it on removals, spur up to tip, place friction saver, rappel down and begin limbing. Initially I tried installing and removing from ground, it worked a few times but then like you say... it got stuck in a tight crotch of a Sugar Maple. Needless to say that was the last time I ever used it in that manner. Simple fixed length steel or aluminum ring models work much better in that application.



I wonder if I am being a bad arborist by not using a friction saver. But that is what was confusing me. These really aren't friction savers, they are false crotches or alternate TIP's right?

Just go out and wrap it around a tree trunk and snap pic so I can see how you have it set up Ok?


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## davej (Dec 23, 2009)

treemandan said:


> I would use tree climbing rope ( 16 strand) for ease of knots and durability.



Seems like you could leave the prusik out and just re-tie a fig-8-on-a-bight as needed.


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## lumberjack333 (Dec 23, 2009)

Well i'm not placing it around the stem, I use it in the crotch that I would tie in at if I didn't have a friction reducing device with me....

Put it this way I don't use it to create a tie in point where none exists, but to reduce the amount of friction that I would normally have to deal with working out a natural crotch... having that pulley in there makes all of the difference when returning from a long limb walk, I can pull the tail of my rope below my micropulley and hitch, and easily lift my weight and change my positioning while keeping one hand free to hang on if I need to. No matter how it is employed, it reduces friction to make movement easier, to some extenet anything from the leather tubed cambium savers, to an adjustable style device like the ones discussed in this thread are all "friction savers" they just work in different ways. Some of them can also be used as a false crotch though, should the need arise.


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## davej (Dec 23, 2009)

treemandan said:


> I wonder if I am being a bad arborist by not using a friction saver.



Well, how many rope burns do you leave behind on live trees?


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## lumberjack333 (Dec 23, 2009)

This is what i would consider a false crotch, I used a sling and biner here to create a tip where none existed... anymore hehe.


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## treemandan (Dec 23, 2009)

lumberjack333 said:


> Well i'm not placing it around the stem, I use it in the crotch that I would tie in at if I didn't have a friction reducing device with me....
> 
> Put it this way I don't use it to create a tie in point where none exists, but to reduce the amount of friction that I would normally have to deal with working out a natural crotch... having that pulley in there makes all of the difference when returning from a long limb walk, I can pull the tail of my rope below my micropulley and hitch, and easily lift my weight and change my positioning while keeping one hand free to hang on if I need to. No matter how it is employed, it reduces friction to make movement easier, to some extenet anything from the leather tubed cambium savers, to an adjustable style device like the ones discussed in this thread are all "friction savers" they just work in different ways. Some of them can also be used as a false crotch though, should the need arise.



Ok, so it is to help with friction.


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## treemandan (Dec 23, 2009)

davej said:


> Well, how many rope burns do you leave behind on live trees?



Not as many as you would think. I wouldn't exactly call them burns either. And its nothing more than what nature does. Besides on big wide spread ones I use multiple TIPS so think about that.


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## Tree Pig (Dec 23, 2009)

davej said:


> Seems like you could leave the prusik out and just re-tie a fig-8-on-a-bight as needed.



While working in a tree sometimes you have to move down and back up, and 8 doesnt allow to do that.


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## Tree Pig (Dec 23, 2009)

lumberjack333 said:


> This is what i would consider a false crotch, I used a sling and biner here to create a tip where none existed... anymore hehe.



ever think about using two biners or adding a micro to increase the bend radius and lesson the stress on the rope.


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## lumberjack333 (Dec 24, 2009)

Yeah I would use two biners there or one of my 2" rescue pulleys, but I was using multiple slings and biners to advance my tip so I could get up to that tear you see in the picture. I wasn't planning on being tied into that for any major length of time, If I was two biners or a pulley for sure.

Believe it or not, the friction was still very low even with a tight radius like that, the little bit of movement I did was very smooth.


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## davej (Dec 25, 2009)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> While working in a tree sometimes you have to move down and back up, and an 8 (knot) doesnt allow to do that.



Well, a prusik is great as long as I'm setting it up with my own hands, but if I'm setting a friction saver from the ground then I'd want something else. That is where I think this is getting a little confusing.


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## Treecutr (Dec 25, 2009)

What I'm going to try first is using about 6' of 1/2" 16 strand Hi Vee and tie each ring to an end with a fishermans. Any thoughts?


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## davej (Dec 26, 2009)

Treecutr said:


> What I'm going to try first is using about 6' of 1/2" 16 strand Hi Vee and tie each ring to an end with a fishermans. Any thoughts?



The only thought I would have goes back to the question of stiffness which was mentioned earlier in this thread. In order to get the FS into position and to retrieve it (from the ground) you might need to stiffen the ends of the rope or webbing in some manner to make it less likely to get stuck.


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## Treecutr (Dec 26, 2009)

davej said:


> The only thought I would have goes back to the question of stiffness which was mentioned earlier in this thread. In order to get the FS into position and to retrieve it (from the ground) you might need to stiffen the ends of the rope or webbing in some manner to make it less likely to get stuck.





possibly. I'll give it a shot, and let everyone know


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## md_tree_dood (Dec 27, 2009)

I have to ask. Why are people so insistent on making stuff for themselves at home? Port-a-wraps, friction savers. This stuff can be life or death, spend the extra few bucks, buy stuff that has been quality tested and approved for industry standards.


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## davej (Dec 27, 2009)

md_tree_dood said:


> I have to ask. Why are people so insistent on making stuff for themselves at home? Port-a-wraps, friction savers. This stuff can be life or death, spend the extra few bucks, buy stuff that has been quality tested and approved for industry standards.



If you have poor judgment you'll probably kill yourself one way or another and probably while out driving. If you have good judgment then you ought to be able to tell if the thing you made is safe or not and test it if needed.


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## Treecutr (Dec 27, 2009)

Well first I'll say I wont even think of using anything I don't feel 100% comfortable with. Then theres this situation ( not looking for sympothy, just some sense of understanding )

Came home from Iraq in June 2008, had to start the tree businesss all over, as I was really small as it was, only doing stuff on a couple weekends a month with 1 or 2 other guys. Problem was I didn't have a job when I got back. went to school full time for a year for Electrician. good amount of my gear was stolen while I was gone, and really dont have the money to replace it all at once. Doing the best I can. So if I can find a way to save some cash, AND still be safe, then I will untill eveything gets up and going good again. Unfortunatley on August 15, 2010, I will be heading to Afghanistan. So knowing all that. I don't want to dump a lot of money into the business, mostly because what if I do, and don't come back in one piece or at all. I'd rather get back healthy, and be able to do tree work. Then I'll spend on all the nice things, like that ART rope guide, sure looks nice. Most folks don't have to contend with that scenario, I do. Unfortunatley I chose the infantry for my military career, so they give me a rifle, sniper rifle, and a ton of ammo, and go do my job.

Again, not mad or offened at any comments, just thought I'd share my scenario. I have also tried several times to get in with a more established local company with no success. Did a little brush dragging here and there a few years ago. So if anyone near Western Ma needs a guy here and there on weeknds, I'm not above being a ground guy again.


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## md_tree_dood (Dec 27, 2009)

In the process of trying to save a buck, you may never make it to Afghanistan. If you don't have the money for a friction saver, just natural crotch, it HAS to be safer than making one.


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## lumberjack333 (Dec 27, 2009)

md_tree_dood said:


> In the process of trying to save a buck, you may never make it to Afghanistan. If you don't have the money for a friction saver, just natural crotch, it HAS to be safer than making one.



I really don't see the difference with tying a couple double fishermans to some metal rings on a short piece of rope, or tying your termination knot and friction hitch at your harness... either way the knots will hold as long as they're tied properly. YES there may now be four knots in the system that should be inspected and checked instead of two, but we're supposed to be professionals that are capable of judging when a piece of life supporting gear is good and when it needs to be retied/replaced. 

Everything in this industry is as safe as we make it, that stuff that comes off an assembly line isn't fool proof. Errors can happen there too, maybe that ol' trusted piece of manufactured gear is what fails one day, where a short piece of rope with a couple knots wouldn't have...


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## Treecutr (Dec 28, 2009)

I'm ultimately going to just buy the friction saver too, but if it wasnt a safe alternative to make one, why do they sell the rings?? And maybe not making it to Afghanistan is the better option, LOL Afterall, I am in the Infantry.


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## JFrazier (Dec 28, 2009)

I've strung the rings on about 5' of 1" tubular webbing and then tied into a loop with a beer knot. Then spread the rings apart to separate ends and tie figure eights to isolate each ring at an end. Ends up being close to 3' long after tying all of the knots. That makes a tough as hell friction saver but you have to have a special touch not to get it stuck in some of the tighter crotches you come across.

Josh Frazier USMC


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## SINGLE-JACK (Dec 28, 2009)

Treecutr said:


> *I purchased a couple steel rings for making a friction saver*. ( from Sherril Tree ) I plan to use either 1" nylon webbing, or rope, but would like suggestions as to what would be best/ better tahn the above. Also best knot to use for both above. I have never used a friction saver, so this is the start of my trial. Thanks!





Treecutr said:


> I'm ultimately going to just buy the friction saver too, but if it wasnt a safe alternative to make one, *why do they sell the rings??* And maybe not making it to Afghanistan is the better option, LOL Afterall, I am in the Infantry.



*If you REALLY want to make a Friction Saver, here's a post that should be of interest:*



Adkpk said:


> I'm going to get another ring and some tenex which I spliced before and use it for an adjusting prusik. Or maybe spend the $42 for the pre-spliced prusik and ring.


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## NCTREE (Dec 28, 2009)

SINGLE-JACK said:


> *If you REALLY want to make a Friction Saver, here's a post that should be of interest:*



thats what i would make and you can still attach a prussik cord and biner for a choker.


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## NCTREE (Dec 28, 2009)

Heres my homemade version of sherills friction saver, costs about half the price to make











it's weeved twice on each side for a total of four weeves then both ends are buried and meet in the middle. Each side is buried about 12"


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## SINGLE-JACK (Dec 28, 2009)

NCTREE said:


> Heres my homemade version of sherills friction saver, costs about half the price to make ...



Very, very nice work *NCTREE*!!! ... Have some rep.
IMO, that's what the OP wanted to see.

Now, tell me about that red 'wrap' ... what is that? ... hard to make out in the pic.


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## NCTREE (Dec 28, 2009)

SINGLE-JACK said:


> Very, very nice work *NCTREE*!!! ... Have some rep.
> IMO, that's what the OP wanted to see.
> 
> Now, tell me about that red 'wrap' ... what is that? ... hard to make out in the pic.



it's just vinyl stretch tape, i think i went overboard but i thought it keep everything neat and nice.


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## SINGLE-JACK (Dec 28, 2009)

NCTREE said:


> it's just vinyl stretch tape, i think i went overboard but i thought it keep everything neat and nice.



How does it hold up? I've been using the clear heat shrink tubing that WesSpur sells. But, I like the red.


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## NCTREE (Dec 28, 2009)

SINGLE-JACK said:


> How does it hold up? I've been using the clear heat shrink tubing that WesSpur sells. But, I like the red.



it's pretty thin stuff i got it at lowes, doesn't do well abrasive wise. 


That heat shrink tape you found looks like it would work ten times better.


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## md_tree_dood (Dec 28, 2009)

My god, now we're going to introduce splicing into the equation?

Taking a look at my gear bag today, thinking about this topic, I have alot of expensive equipment, only half of it is used for life support. A friction saver is directly related to your life support system. Stay out of the bar two consecutive weeks and you can buy one.

If you really wanna save money, all you really need to buy is a rope and handsaw. You can climb on a bowline on a bight and blakes hitch.


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## Adkpk (Dec 28, 2009)

SINGLE-JACK said:


> *If you REALLY want to make a Friction Saver, here's a post that should be of interest:*



Thanks for referencing me Jack. Here's the friction saver with the prusik. (Which I sprung so the doe for from Sherrill). And a lanyard. I make whatever I can to be more in touch with the fate I tempt by climbing. I am confident that my splicing will hold.


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## tree MDS (Dec 29, 2009)

md_tree_dood said:


> My god, now we're going to introduce splicing into the equation?
> 
> Taking a look at my gear bag today, thinking about this topic, I have alot of expensive equipment, only half of it is used for life support. A friction saver is directly related to your life support system. Stay out of the bar two consecutive weeks and you can buy one.
> 
> If you really wanna save money, all you really need to buy is a rope and handsaw. You can climb on a bowline on a bight and blakes hitch.



:hmm3grin2orange:


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## tree MDS (Dec 29, 2009)

Seriously though...some of you guys obsess over the strangest things. I've been around treework for about 22 years, and not once have I ever seen anyone actually use a friction saver. Not once. Might I add that my experiences include working for some very successful and up to date tree services. Just a thought to consider while yer splicing those babys up.


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## Blakesmaster (Dec 29, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> Seriously though...some of you guys obsess over the strangest things. I've been around treework for about 22 years, and not once have I ever seen anyone actually use a friction saver. Not once. Might I add that my experiences include working for some very successful and up to date tree services. Just a thought to consider while yer splicing those babys up.



Really? I use my friction saver fairly regularly and you KNOW I'm not mister "don't want to put a rope burn on that tree", MDS. lol I like it for big removals when I'm using the same TIP for an extended period of time, makes everything much smoother. I use them almost all the time when doing sappy pines to avoid gunking up my line cause I can't stand it when my friction hitch jams up. I throw it over a crotch and snap a 'biner through the rings for a quick redirect if I don't have a webbing sling with me. I always use one to tie above the ball on a crane which saves me from having to tie into the tree once set in place, just choke off the piece and rappel down to cut ( very quick ). I can put it around the main trunk and have it held up by the tiniest limb that I wouldn't trust if my life line were constantly rubbing on it. But what I like the MOST about a friction saver is if you get one long enough ( I need a little longer one, BTW ) is that it will wrap around the tree with you keeping the same amount of friction on your climb line throughout your work. Instead of your climb line laying against the trunk while you're limb-walking on the far side of the tree the FS just follows you around to that side of the trunk essentially moving your TIP.


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## tree MDS (Dec 29, 2009)

Blakesmaster said:


> Really? I use my friction saver fairly regularly and you KNOW I'm not mister "don't want to put a rope burn on that tree", MDS. lol I like it for big removals when I'm using the same TIP for an extended period of time, makes everything much smoother. I use them almost all the time when doing sappy pines to avoid gunking up my line cause I can't stand it when my friction hitch jams up. I throw it over a crotch and snap a 'biner through the rings for a quick redirect if I don't have a webbing sling with me. I always use one to tie above the ball on a crane which saves me from having to tie into the tree once set in place, just choke off the piece and rappel down to cut ( very quick ). I can put it around the main trunk and have it held up by the tiniest limb that I wouldn't trust if my life line were constantly rubbing on it. But what I like the MOST about a friction saver is if you get one long enough ( I need a little longer one, BTW ) is that it will wrap around the tree with you keeping the same amount of friction on your climb line throughout your work. Instead of your climb line laying against the trunk while you're limb-walking on the far side of the tree the FS just follows you around to that side of the trunk essentially moving your TIP.



Good post, and some good points blakes. I actually BOUGHT one recently myself, for pretty much the same reasons you pointed out, I just haven't bothered/gotten a good chance to play with it yet. I just get a little annoyed sometimes with all this stuff...I mean where does it end? oh, that's right, it doesn't. lol

Don't even get me going on the way some of these internet wannabee catalog climbers disrespect the taughtline these days.


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## Blakesmaster (Dec 29, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> Don't even get me going on the way some of these internet wannabee catalog climbers disrespect the taughtline these days.



Oh come on, MDS, GET GOING! I was taught a version of the taughtline when I first started climbing but never used it much before I found the blakes...then it just steam rolled. You're right about some of these guys focusing on the weirdest stuff, I sometimes wonder if the majority of people on this site actually work. That being said, it is you and I that are here, on a weekday, shortly after noon, #####ing about the catalog climbers that don't do anything, lol.


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## NCTREE (Dec 29, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> Seriously though...some of you guys obsess over the strangest things. I've been around treework for about 22 years, and not once have I ever seen anyone actually use a friction saver. Not once. Might I add that my experiences include working for some very successful and up to date tree services. Just a thought to consider while yer splicing those babys up.



thats the most ridiculous thing i think i ever heard you say. Obsess? really your gonna say that, sounds like your just trying to start trouble. If you never used a friction saver in your 22 yrs then wake up! I bet the shoulders feel pretty good don't they. And your claim that we are wannabes for taking a liking to making are own gear is just plain stupid. We are the ones who are smart for being resourceful instead of letting some company rip us off.

I splice yes for a hobby on the side I don't see one thing wrong with it. I use my gear to make the job easier and to put less wear and tear on me. I find it much easier to use my friction saver when working on a spar. It's much easier to set my block and tackle plus make my notch hanging from a rope then it is on spikes. I don't know about you but I hate spikes so anything I can do to get off them is a relief.

I forgot about some of you old timers, it's just plain cool to be old school. Well good for you, i'll stick to my "bells and whistles" as the old timers would call it. Don't get me wrong some of you old timers are cool as #### it's just a few that get on my nerves.:hmm3grin2orange:


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## tree MDS (Dec 29, 2009)

Blakesmaster said:


> Oh come on, MDS, GET GOING! I was taught a version of the taughtline when I first started climbing but never used it much before I found the blakes...then it just steam rolled. You're right about some of these guys focusing on the weirdest stuff, I sometimes wonder if the majority of people on this site actually work. That being said, it is you and I that are here, on a weekday, shortly after noon, #####ing about the catalog climbers that don't do anything, lol.



That leads me to a whole different topic blakes. I find the hardest part of being self employed is not being able to just simply climb and cut - everyday! But when you are on your own (in my book) you are on your own...at least for the most part that is. I dont feel its right to whore around if your trying to be your own man. That is just me, and I am just talking here, so dont think this is directed at you or anyone else.


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## tree MDS (Dec 29, 2009)

NCTREE said:


> thats the most ridiculous thing i think i ever heard you say. Obsess? really your gonna say that, sounds like your just trying to start trouble. If you never used a friction saver in your 22 yrs then wake up! I bet the shoulders feel pretty good don't they. And your claim that we are wannabes for taking a liking to making are own gear is just plain stupid. We are the ones who are smart for being resourceful instead of letting some company rip us off.
> 
> I splice yes for a hobby on the side I don't see one thing wrong with it. I use my gear to make the job easier and to put less wear and tear on me. I find it much easier to use my friction saver when working on a spar. It's much easier to set my block and tackle plus make my notch hanging from a rope then it is on spikes. I don't know about you but I hate spikes so anything I can do to get off them is a relief.
> 
> I forgot about some of you old timers, it's just plain cool to be old school. Well good for you, i'll stick to my "bells and whistles" as the old timers would call it. Don't get me wrong some of you old timers are cool as #### it's just a few that get on my nerves.:hmm3grin2orange:



Yeah, i was just trying (mostly) to liven things up around here a bit, maybe inject a shot of realism. But i do like my spikes and my shoulders feel just fine...in fact they are probably the strongest part of me. Friction saver. :hmm3grin2orange: BTW: I'm only 36, for another month or so anyways.


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## Treecutr (Dec 29, 2009)

Didn't know this was going to turn into such a long topic. Heres what I was looking at, something like this. Again, probably just going to buy one when I have the money, but I already have the rings.View attachment 119851


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## Treecutr (Dec 29, 2009)

also just remembered this from treestuff.com

http://www.treestuff.com/store/catalog.asp?item=1150

only difference is they have it spliced.


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## MonkeyMan_812 (Dec 29, 2009)

I like my friction saver. They probably should have named it "energy saver". I had the same opinion about it as most of the "old schoolers" when I first saw them but once I used one my opinion totally changed. I rareley enter a tree without one nowadays. Try ascending 40-50ft in a natural crotch with a pantene foot ascender, then try it using a friction saver. You'll change your mind, I can promise you that. I thought the same about the split-tail climbing system too. I was not letting go of my "good ol blakes hitch". But once I switched over i'll never go back. So to all the closed minders out there, just try it out before you bash it.


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## SINGLE-JACK (Dec 29, 2009)

Treecutr said:


> Didn't know this was going to turn into such a long topic. Heres what I was looking at, something like this. Again, probably just going to buy one when I have the money, but I already have the rings.



*That could work as a FS - might be a little tough getting DFL's through a tight crotch. But if you're going to make that, you might consider seizing the loose ends for added safety:*


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## kevin bingham (Dec 30, 2009)

climb and work SRT and you dont need friction savers at all! 

working double line without a friction saver is a huge waste of energy and rope. Splicing a tenex friction saver is very easy, almost as easy as tieing a knot and very cheap. Using knots is fine but a little harder to pull out of tight crotches. 
but like I said before, climbing SRT is the simplest of all options as rope friction is not an issue.


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## Blakesmaster (Dec 30, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> That leads me to a whole different topic blakes. I find the hardest part of being self employed is not being able to just simply climb and cut - everyday! But when you are on your own (in my book) you are on your own...at least for the most part that is. I dont feel its right to whore around if your trying to be your own man. That is just me, and I am just talking here, so dont think this is directed at you or anyone else.



Trying to stir things up indeed, MDS. I'll admit, I'm a whore, but it's a means to an end at this point. I don't think I'll ever stop trying to contract climb out of town but this helpin' the locals out BS has to stop soon. You're right, there's a HUGE conflict of interest if your working for your competition. It's not a pride thing for me though, it just doesn't make good business sense to make a career out of doing things for the competition that they can't do themselves.


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## tree MDS (Dec 30, 2009)

Blakesmaster said:


> Trying to stir things up indeed, MDS. I'll admit, I'm a whore, but it's a means to an end at this point. I don't think I'll ever stop trying to contract climb out of town but this helpin' the locals out BS has to stop soon. You're right, there's a HUGE conflict of interest if your working for your competition. It's not a pride thing for me though, it just doesn't make good business sense to make a career out of doing things for the competition that they can't do themselves.



Glad to hear your seeing the light buddy! 

Honestly though, I was just venting about something that happened to me earlier this year...I guess your situation sort of struck a cord with me is all. But yeah, the way I see it if your gonna start your own business in my area, its sort of like throwing yourself into the war, so be on your own or flake off is my feeling. None of this leaching about helping all these other fat sacks that cant cut their own trees- and stealing whatever knowledge they have while at it. you waged war, now fend for yourself....theres no going back and you cant have no life preserver either. Tough crowd.


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## tree MDS (Dec 30, 2009)

Jeez. Come on guys, I was just kidding about the friction savers...weave away! I mean splice that is. lol


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## md_tree_dood (Dec 30, 2009)

Agreed on using SRT. I just started using it, and once you get the motions down, its fantastic, and very fast. Once you get to your crotch, set your friction saver, and off you go.


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## Blakesmaster (Dec 30, 2009)

md_tree_dood said:


> Agreed on using SRT. I just started using it, and once you get the motions down, its fantastic, and very fast. Once you get to your crotch, set your friction saver, and off you go.



Kevin's talking about his F8 revolver setup which allows him to work SRT the whole time. I'm gonna try it out one of these days.


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## Treecutr (Dec 30, 2009)

yeah I will sieze up the loose ends. I like the DRT. Never tried single rope, not even sure where to start. We'll see


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