# Rappel on beeline or icetail?



## Ghillie (Apr 20, 2009)

Has anybody used either of these two lines for an "escape kit" or similar.

I am looking to put together what we call a "cut down kit" for a high ropes course. It is used to get injured/ill/worn-out participants off of the course from around 30' up in the trees.

Requirements I know of so far:


Lighter/smaller than 7/16" kernmantle
Minimum 5000# breaking strength
Works with a micro 8 descender without doubling

It will go into a fanny pack to be carried by the Instructor in case someone gets into trouble and needs to be lowered quickly to the ground.

I don't have enough experience with this cordage to say for sure if it will meet my needs. The Icetail I just spliced had a core to keep it round but I have never rappelled on it.


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## md_tree_dood (Apr 20, 2009)

If you're going to actually come down on the line, I'd suggest beeline, as ice doesn't seem to have the outer core it would need to work well with a figure 8


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## Ghillie (Apr 20, 2009)

md_tree_dood said:


> If you're going to actually come down on the line, I'd suggest beeline, as ice doesn't seem to have the outer core it would need to work well with a figure 8



The way it is used currently is we attach a figure eight to an anchor above the "victim", the "rescue" line is run through the eight and terminates in a figure eight with a carabiner onto the "victim's" harness.

The rigging that is suspending the "victim" is unhooked or cut to releas them and they are lowered to the ground.

Back to your post, so the cover of Ice becomes a problem running through an eight or other friction device? Hhhmmmmmmm.....


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## pdqdl (Apr 22, 2009)

I can't comment on which would work best for your application, but I do have some comments on Beeline.

1. It is VERY expensive.
2. The cover is extremely heat resistant, so you don't need to worry about melting it down with friction. It will turn to ashes before it melts.
3. It is core dependent rope, which means that the strength is all in the core, not the cover. Splices are almost as easy as 12 strand.
4. The core is easily milked up or down if the ends are not secured. Since the cover is absolutely melt-proof, you will need to whip the ends tightly or leave a knot in both the ends.


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## Ghillie (Apr 22, 2009)

pdqdl said:


> I can't comment on which would work best for your application, but I do have some comments on Beeline.
> 
> 1. It is VERY expensive.
> 2. The cover is extremely heat resistant, so you don't need to worry about melting it down with friction. It will turn to ashes before it melts.
> ...



Thanks for the input, that's what I need, more personal experience with these ropes.

I may just have to get some (I am leaning towards beeline) and try it out myself. If it isn't suited for this application, I guess I will have a bunch of lanyards.


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## pdqdl (Apr 22, 2009)

If you only want a little, I would be happy to sell some to you. I bought 100' for general purposes, and it looks like it will take me forever to use that up.


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## Ghillie (Apr 22, 2009)

pdqdl said:


> If you only want a little, I would be happy to sell some to you. I bought 100' for general purposes, and it looks like it will take me forever to use that up.



Thanks for the offer but I am going to be ordering some more rope and cord so tacking on a 25' section will not be a big deal. I know it will not go to waste with my various off-ground activities I do.

I appreciate the offer though.


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## pdqdl (Apr 22, 2009)

Sherill has a screw-you price on sections under 100'. I think it is their intention that you should buy their ready-made eye-to-eye ropes.

Get ready.


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## md_tree_dood (Apr 22, 2009)

Why don't you just get yourself an SRT line like Snakebite? Not sure which is cheaper, but SB is a better overall "line" then beeline, and it's actually designed for ascent/descent


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## Ghillie (Apr 22, 2009)

md_tree_dood said:


> Why don't you just get yourself an SRT line like Snakebite? Not sure which is cheaper, but SB is a better overall "line" then beeline, and it's actually designed for ascent/descent



How flexible is snakebite? Can it be stuffed in a small pack handily?


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## moray (Apr 22, 2009)

It is quite stiff, not pliable at all. Not easy to tie knots in it. But it is a terrific SRT line. Not spliceable.


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## Ghillie (Apr 23, 2009)

moray said:


> It is quite stiff, not pliable at all. Not easy to tie knots in it. But it is a terrific SRT line. Not spliceable.



That's what I was afraid of.

The problem I am trying to solve is this. The fascillitator/instructor needs to have a cut-down kit with them at all times. The course is an obsticle course in the trees, between the trees. If a particiapant is in distress because of a fall, the instructor needs tobe able to immediately go to their aid.

The nature of the cours (obsticles) delays the instructor and if the kit is not on their person, it tends to be left at one of the platforms during the activity, easily forgotten when negotiating obsticles.

I am trying to pare down the kit and make it less of an obstruction for the instructor so that it stays on their person the whole time.

We are using 7/16" static kernmantle at this time that has a soft hand but is cumbersome in the over the shoulder purse/satchel we are currently using.

Another concern is retraining everybody in the use of a much smaller line and friction device.

After reading everybodies input (thank you all) I think my xourse of action should be to pare down the kit and components we are using now and see how small I can get it. That may solve the problem.

Thanks again everybody.


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## Slvrmple72 (Apr 23, 2009)

I know it is for rigging but have you considered Black Widow? If you need it only for lowering a victim it might fit the bill for compactness and portability in addition to the other items in the satchel: figure 8, carabiner, knife.


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## pdqdl (Apr 23, 2009)

I have reread all the comments in this thread, and I believe that Bee-line would work nicely for your purposes. 

1. It is obviously designed to handle abusive friction loads. The cover is very durable, and cannot be melted.
2. It is very light and very strong. Only an 8mm line with a 6k strength!
3. It holds knots rather nicely, as it is one of the preferred lines for eye-to-eye friction hitch ropes.
4.  It is also very difficult to cut with a sharp edge, something that has not been introduced in any of the previous comments. I imagine that is an important factor to consider while practicing or performing aerial rescues. 

[In fact, I have been obliged to re-sharpen every knife that I have used on this rope. In just one cut: your knife is dull, and you were forced to saw/gnaw your way through to finish the cut. This rope is so hard, it will roll back the edge on my Leatherman!]

5. It costs so much that your instructor will be afraid to put it down on the ground; hence, it will always be with him when needed.


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## Ghillie (Apr 23, 2009)

pdqdl said:


> ...........................
> 5. It costs so much that your instructor will be afraid to put it down on the ground; hence, it will always be with him when needed.



ROFL!!! 

Silvermaple, I hadn't considered Black Widow. I will give it a look.

Thanks again to all of you for your input. It may be a while before anything new is implemented but I will be sure to let you know how it turns out. 

Stay safe!

Fred


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## pdqdl (Apr 23, 2009)

I think Black widow has been removed from the market. Samson does not list it on their website, and Sherrill has some odd behavior on their website listing. No specs available, I think they are selling their inventory.

In another thread, someone speculated that Black Widow was just Amsteel. If that is the case, don't plan on using it as a rappelling line. Amsteel is unbelievably strong, but it has a major fault: it has a very low melting point, and it does not stand up to abrasion too well, either. Furthermore, it is amazingly slick, so controlling knots and descent rates with friction will be tricky too.

I have some 3/8 Amsteel Blue; I tried it out as a climbing line one day. No fun, it performs poorly, despite being strong enough to break off the tree before failing.

If Black Widow is really Amsteel: don't use it for rescue on friction descent.


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## Ghillie (Apr 23, 2009)

pdqdl said:


> I think Black widow has been removed from the market. Samson does not list it on their website, and Sherrill has some odd behavior on their website listing. No specs available, I think they are selling their inventory.
> 
> In another thread, someone speculated that Black Widow was just Amsteel. If that is the case, don't plan on using it as a rappelling line. Amsteel is unbelievably strong, but it has a major fault: it has a very low melting point, and it does not stand up to abrasion too well, either. Furthermore, it is amazingly slick, so controlling knots and descent rates with friction will be tricky too.
> 
> ...



Good to know, I figured there was some bad characteristics to go with the good.


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