# Friction saver?



## david1332 (Oct 17, 2016)

I climb exclusively DDRT and was wondering how much more efficient I would be with a friction saver? Do they make that much of a difference?


----------



## treesmith (Oct 17, 2016)

Yes

warning - this sig causes splinters


----------



## treesmith (Oct 17, 2016)

Doesn't damage the tree either

warning - this sig causes splinters


----------



## benjo75 (Oct 17, 2016)

Yes. Better on the tree. Better on the ropes. Less friction going up. Less friction coming down. The ring type will take a little longer to install. The leather and conduit type can stay on the rope and be pulled right up. If you're re-crotching a lot then the leather type might be better. You can unstitch the seam and stick some strong velcro in its place. Then it can be installed midline. I didn't use one for years then went to the adjustable ring type. I personally like the conduit type right now for my style of climbing.


----------



## acer-kid (Oct 17, 2016)

Pros:
A friction saver is going to make your hitch more responsive.
It's going to save the cover of your rope. 
Easy to install.

Cons:
It's going to put more strain on your upper body during ascent due to lack or fiction.
It gets stuck.
Your hitches won't last as long because, well.. we know friction doesnt disappear.. it relocates. That just so happens to be at your hitch.


----------



## david1332 (Oct 17, 2016)

acer-kid said:


> Pros:
> A friction saver is going to make your hitch more responsive.
> It's going to save the cover of your rope.
> Easy to install.
> ...


I climb on a zigzag


----------



## acer-kid (Oct 17, 2016)

david1332 said:


> I climb on a zigzag


Same difference. The friction still transfers to your descent device. You may have to change your climbing style if you're guy that went thru hitch cords before. There's an old thread here about a guys spiderjack wearing out a cam. Ran a pulley saver I think. Wasnt using the friction block


----------



## jtc16 (Oct 17, 2016)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Singing-Roc...128261?hash=item2359f5ad45:g:1VkAAOSwv0tU7Mvv

There is a good friction saver for a good price. I wouldn't do ddrt without one unless I had to for some reason.


----------



## ATH (Oct 17, 2016)

acer-kid said:


> ...
> Cons:
> ......
> It gets stuck.
> ......


Yeah...I just had to re-climb a tree today to get it down. It was the conduit-type and was in a crotch that was too tight. I try not to do that too often! It is best to send the throw line back up tied onto the end. I didn't do so today.


----------



## acer-kid (Oct 17, 2016)

I NEVER use one in a linden. Ever. ****ers.


----------



## ATH (Oct 18, 2016)

This was a River birch. It was a GREAT spot to climb from...


----------



## crotchclimber (Oct 18, 2016)

Friction savers save wear on your rope, the tree, and your body. I use one 90% of the time. Basically only time I don't are progress climbing up the tree and when blocking down the trunk on removals (sometimes, because it takes longer to set). But advantages of an adjustable saver is you can choke it on a spar and work off it, something you can't do with just a rope. I wouldn't bother with anything other than an adjustable rope friction saver. I use a Teufelberger Fimblsaver and it has never gotten stuck. I'm always careful how I place savers. Sometimes it catches on other crotches when you pull it from the tree; that is how savers get stuck in my experience. When in doubt try retreiving it when you are setting it. With a Zigzag, the extra friction on the device versus spread between the device and the saver is a non-issue in my experience. It's only a problem when running a pulley with hitch cord on long descents. I also have a USaver and the Dan House conduit sleeves but these are more for specialty applications than regular use.


----------



## acer-kid (Oct 18, 2016)

crotchclimber said:


> Friction savers save wear on your body.


Why do you think this? It's actually the opposite.


----------



## benjo75 (Oct 18, 2016)

I climber a small Sycamore today that was very close to and leaning over an old Wal Mart building. The only decent tie in point was about 25 ft up and over a very small limb. Probably about 1 1/2 inch limb. Definitely to small to comfortably climb on. So I body thrusted and used a lanyard all the way up. The small limb held just fine. It wasn't worth setting up Srt or installing a friction saver. I was at the top long before I could have done either one. I haven't climbed Ddrt in a while but I could definitely tell there was more friction than if I had used a friction saver. And that was a slick Sycamore. So in my opinion a friction saver is easier on my body. Just my opinion.


----------



## Griff93 (Oct 18, 2016)

Having some friction at the top is not necessarily a bad thing, especially for a newer climber. I have used friction savers but don't care for them unless it's a huge tree at the TIP. Sometimes they are very time consuming to use. You don't need a friction saver to choke a spar on removals, all you need is a rescue 8.


----------



## treesmith (Oct 18, 2016)

With ddrt and a rope over a limb you have to overcome friction from rope on bark AND lift your own weight though it's easier to hold your weight as you tend the slack. With a friction saver you don't have to over come the bark friction but you have to support more of your weight as you tend slack.

I can easily pull myself up 70' on a ropeguide and zigzag whereas hip thrusting against friction is hard work

warning - this sig causes splinters


----------



## crotchclimber (Oct 19, 2016)

acer-kid said:


> Why do you think this? It's actually the opposite.


I don't know why you think that; losing your energy to heat (friction) instead of movement means you have to exert more energy to move the same distance.


----------



## jtc16 (Oct 19, 2016)

acer-kid said:


> Why do you think this? It's actually the opposite.


It might seem this way because a full pull happens slower when there is friction from the crotch, but overall i think a friction saver definitely saves your energy too.


----------



## jtc16 (Oct 19, 2016)

Nvm about that pic


----------

