# Home made throw ball cannon!



## BS Tree Service (Jan 10, 2015)

Hi everyone! I'm new here but wanted to share something cool with everyone. I own and run a small tree service and I was looking for a better way to set my our lines in the trees to better heights and be more accurate and most of all save time. 

I saw they sell air cannons on some tree sites for a pretty penny so I just made my own. I got to say I'm pretty blown away how good it actually works lol. It only cost me about $50 to make and now it takes me only minutes to set my lines even in the highest trees. I got everything I needed at the local department stores. I just use a bike pump and it takes about 30 seconds and it's ready to go.

So anyways, if you were planning on spending hundreds for them online, you may want to think about making your own. If anyone is interested, I will post some pics or videos if I can figure it out.


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## jefflovstrom (Jan 10, 2015)

You are awesome!


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## BS Tree Service (Jan 10, 2015)

Thanks jefflovstrom. Here it is!


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## Spin Drift (Jan 10, 2015)

lets see it in action


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## BS Tree Service (Jan 10, 2015)

I'll make a video this week. I don't have one of it yet. But I think you will be impressed. It's pretty cool. The picture is from when I just made it. I may paint it now that I know it works so well.


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## jomoco (Jan 11, 2015)

You're doing a very dangerous thing my friend.

My worst nightmare's someone gettin killed or mangled copyin my stuff without a thorough understanding of the dangers involved?

People get hurt from improper use or maintenance of bigshots for heaven's sake!

jomoco


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## BS Tree Service (Jan 11, 2015)

I do appreciate and understand your concern jomoco. I don't mean to step on any toes. 

I guess I should have made it more clear that I did my research on the material's and I am sure not to exceed manufacturer psi ratings


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## RYNOMAGNUM (Jan 19, 2015)

I had a customer a few years back that wanted to entertain the idea of setting my throw-ball with a 'tater-gun....
He was a educated fellow that was on the ski team from my area(UT) and had the money ...so I had a few laughs at his expense after I made sure to drag my ball through the wet grass to ensure it didn't get scorched in his attempts. Lol.

How can I transfer this vid. From my Android to here easily so you can laugh at my helper and client?


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## Jetterbug (Jan 19, 2015)

The anticipation is Killin me! )


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## mattfr12 (Jan 20, 2015)

jomoco said:


> You're doing a very dangerous thing my friend.
> 
> My worst nightmare's someone gettin killed or mangled copyin my stuff without a thorough understanding of the dangers involved?
> 
> ...



Ive read some horror stories of the big shot it seems it can be quite dangerous for some. read of a guy getting caught under the chin and loosing some teeth.


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## Aldegar (Jan 20, 2015)

My boss just made one of these, it's pretty fun to mess with but nothing can beat the big shot when it comes to getting lines set.


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## ATH (Jan 20, 2015)

I agree Aldegar. I have one that I made. Big Shot is much easier to use.


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## ATH (Jan 20, 2015)

BS Tree Service said:


> I do appreciate and understand your concern jomoco. I don't mean to step on any toes.
> 
> I guess I should have made it more clear that I did my research on the material's and I am sure not to exceed manufacturer psi ratings


So you used PVC rated for pressurized air? And they had that at the local hardware store. That is unusual.


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## mattfr12 (Jan 20, 2015)

ATH said:


> I agree Aldegar. I have one that I made. Big Shot is much easier to use.


I couldn't live without my big shot now been using one since they came out. I get the best tie in from the ground without wanting to pull my hair out from a bad throw. I rarely need two shots anymore


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## BS Tree Service (Jan 20, 2015)

ATH said:


> So you used PVC rated for pressurized air? And they had that at the local hardware store. That is unusual.


Yeah. The stuff I got is rated at 350 psi. I looked online and mbs is just over 1000psi. They print it right on the pipe.


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## BS Tree Service (Jan 20, 2015)

I have not had the chance to try the big shot yet so I don't know how it would compare to this. I just know this works really well. All in all it takes about 45 seconds to 60 seconds to make a shot which to me is pretty good. Beats spending lots of time throwing. 
The only complaint I would have is finding a bike pump that can hold up to the use.


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## TC262 (Jan 20, 2015)

BS Tree Service said:


> Yeah. The stuff I got is rated at 350 psi. I looked online and mbs is just over 1000psi. They print it right on the pipe.


Not pneumatic pressure, that rating is for hydraulic pressure. Two completely different animals. Pneumatic pressure can be some dangerous stuff.


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## BS Tree Service (Jan 20, 2015)

TC262 said:


> Not pneumatic pressure, that rating is for hydraulic pressure. Two completely different animals. Pneumatic pressure can be some dangerous stuff.


Really? This may be a dumb question but how is it any different?


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## ATH (Jan 20, 2015)

What TC262 said. Schedule 40 is rated for liquid. If you look into it, you will see that manufacture ratings specifically say NOT for air.


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## mattfr12 (Jan 20, 2015)

BS Tree Service said:


> I have not had the chance to try the big shot yet so I don't know how it would compare to this. I just know this works really well. All in all it takes about 45 seconds to 60 seconds to make a shot which to me is pretty good. Beats spending lots of time throwing.
> The only complaint I would have is finding a bike pump that can hold up to the use.



The launches are cool and maybe pretty acurate but the big shot can't be beat don't need a pump just poles everyone already has on a tree truck and the head. You'll be setting lines at 100ft if wanted no problem.

I was gonna get the air cannon from treestuff.com but the big shot Is just so spot on it would be extra work to use it.


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## TC262 (Jan 20, 2015)

When something in a pneumatic system fails the air pressure can continue pushing the object creating a projectile or bomb like scenario. When a hydraulic component fails it usually doesn't get that continued push.


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## lone wolf (Jan 20, 2015)

http://www.harvel.com/technical-support-center/product-specifications/pvc-pipe-schedule-80


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## BS Tree Service (Jan 20, 2015)

TC262 said:


> When something in a pneumatic system fails the air pressure can continue pushing the object creating a projectile or bomb like scenario. When a hydraulic component fails it usually doesn't get that continued push.


In the situation of a failure of a pipe that makes sense. But as far as pressure ratings, why would it be different for air than water? Are there two different psi's for water and air when it comes to pipes?


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## BS Tree Service (Jan 20, 2015)

I understand that water has really no stored energy and that air can create a lot of energy causing pieces to fly everywhere in the event of exceeding psi rating but when it comes to psi ratings isn't it all the same?


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## mattfr12 (Jan 20, 2015)

BS Tree Service said:


> I understand that water has really no stored energy and that air can create a lot of energy causing pieces to fly everywhere in the event of exceeding psi rating but when it comes to psi ratings isn't it all the same?



We use to make patato guns out of that stuff. It's pretty strong pipe. Used aqua net hairspray to shoot it


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## ATH (Jan 21, 2015)

I am a tree guy, not so much a materials engineer. I looked into it in more detail 6-7 years ago when I made the pneumatic launcher, and it made sense then...enough that I intentionally decided to stay well below working PSI and included a pressure relief valve that blows just in case I decide to be dumb and see if I could max out the launch height by pushing up the pressure.

I am not saying I have never pressurized PVC with air (or that I will not do it again). It made me real nervous pressurizing it when it was 15 degrees out...things tend to start getting brittle - I wouldn't do that again.

I AM saying that I would not recommend somebody else do it or let an employee on the job use it (stuff happens, and I don't want that responsibility/liability).

I have also never claimed "I did my research on the material's and I am sure not to exceed manufacturer psi ratings" when it is simply not rated by the manufacturer for pressurized air.

If you want to read more on pneumatic launchers, Google "antenna launcher". Amateur radio guys use then to string wires for HAM radios. A tennis ball fits perfectly snug into 2.5" PVC. A sprinkler valve release air more quickly than a ball valve (but, I am pretty sure that is not rated for air either)

The conclusion I came to:

Air cannon = fun.
Big Shot = practical (and kina fun too).


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## jomoco (Jan 21, 2015)

My pneumatic throwbag gun's over 20 years old now, made from aluminum piping, and has considerable recoil when fired at 160 psi, much like a 12 gauge shotgun.

And though the barrel's only a foot long, the recoil's such that when aiming at the crotch I want, I must actually drop my aim a foot or two below that crotch to compensate for the recoil of the gun's lift when fired.

It's that recoil that's going to really torque the hell out of BS Tree's pvc gun right where the launch barrel connects to his valve IMO. The longer the launch barrel? The harder the recoil's going to be, the more force applied to barrel and valve connection each time it's fired.

That's the weak point in BS Tree's design, that needs to be reinforced with an outer sleeve that keeps the pressure tank firmly aligned with the launch barrel during recoil when it's fired, IMO.

Without that reinforcement between the two chambers? That gun's an accident waiting to happen!


jomoco


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## ATH (Jan 21, 2015)

160 psi 

How heavy of a weight do you shoot, and how high does it go? I get 90' from a 16 ounce tennis ball at about 50-60 psi.


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## BS Tree Service (Jan 21, 2015)

ATH said:


> 160 psi
> 
> How heavy of a weight do you shoot, and how high does it go? I get 90' from a 16 ounce tennis ball at about 50-60 psi.


I use a 14oz weight and 100psi in mine and I get 100 ft no problem with little recoil.


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## jomoco (Jan 21, 2015)

ATH said:


> 160 psi
> 
> How heavy of a weight do you shoot, and how high does it go? I get 90' from a 16 ounce tennis ball at about 50-60 psi.



A little over 16 oz, since there's an additional cordura nylon jacket sewn over the bag to protect it.

I get in excess of 120 feet at 160 psi.

Gun's pressure tested at 300 psi by the shop that built it for me, so I feel pretty safe under 200 psi.

I charge it with my CO2 bottle. Which has a braided steel line to handle that kinda pressure.

However the gun's been in the bottom of one of my truck's boxes for years now since I purchased a Big Shot.

Not the kinda gun that goes unnoticed on the job, and I've had cops give me the evil eye the few times I've used it in Balboa Park and other downtown high pedestrian areas as well.

jomoco


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## Aldegar (Jan 22, 2015)

Moral of the story is that tree guys love bad ass toys, what we need though is a bat man ascender.


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## DMD (Jan 23, 2015)

One pound per square inch is one pound per square inch doesn't matter if it's water, air or concrete. Now if the PVC fails with too much water presure you get a crack the water spills out and the presure immediately drops since water isn't compressable. Air is compressable so when the PVC fails you get a much bigger crack or cracks and then projectiles. The projectiles are the bad part. For safety sake wrap your pvc pressure tank with about 4 layers of duct tape. The tape will hold on to or atleast slow the shrapnel down.
The ratio betwen the volume of your barrel and air chamber should be around 1.5 to 1. Jomoco if you trippled the length of your barrel you could put throw bags in orbit. The longer barrel will allow for greater velocity with much lower pressure.
I keep a portable air tank on the truck to fill mine. I find it to be faster than a bigshot and with fewer misfires. Bike pumps don't last. 40 psi gets me around around the 70 foot mark, 160 psi put 180 feet of zing it and my throw cube in the air. The recoil was not even close to shotgun range.

We call ours the Crotch Rocket.


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## BS Tree Service (Jan 23, 2015)

DMD said:


> One pound per square inch is one pound per square inch doesn't matter if it's water, air or concrete. Now if the PVC fails with too much water presure you get a crack the water spills out and the presure immediately drops since water isn't compressable. Air is compressable so when the PVC fails you get a much bigger crack or cracks and then projectiles. The projectiles are the bad part. For safety sake wrap your pvc pressure tank with about 4 layers of duct tape. The tape will hold on to or atleast slow the shrapnel down.
> The ratio betwen the volume of your barrel and air chamber should be around 1.5 to 1. Jomoco if you trippled the length of your barrel you could put throw bags in orbit. The longer barrel will allow for greater velocity with much lower pressure.
> I keep a portable air tank on the truck to fill mine. I find it to be faster than a bigshot and with fewer misfires. Bike pumps don't last. 40 psi gets me around around the 70 foot mark, 160 psi put 180 feet of zing it and my throw cube in the air. The recoil was not even close to shotgun range.
> 
> We call ours the Crotch Rocket.


Yeah that's what I thought. Psi is psi. I thought about wrapping mine with duck tape and I will. Mine has a longer barrel on it and it does really well so I'm happy. 
Your right, bike pumps are no good. That's my only complaint with this. Maybe I'll try the air tank.


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## Zale (Jan 23, 2015)

If you're using duct tape as a safety device, you might want to go back to the drawing board. Also, don't forget your safety glasses. Slows the flying pieces down.


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## jomoco (Jan 23, 2015)

DMD said:


> Jomoco if you trippled the length of your barrel you could put throw bags in orbit. The longer barrel will allow for greater velocity with much lower pressure.
> .



Funny you'd say that DMD, since I did build one with a three foot launch barrel for the owner of The Care of Trees in Chicago, which got me an honorable mention in the last pages of Blair's Arborist Equipment, as capable of putting a throw bag into low orbit, or so I'm told by quite a few folks.

jomoco


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## Zale (Jan 23, 2015)

I hope you charged John H.


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