# What is the best inside wood burning stove



## atvguns (Aug 4, 2011)

Just wondering what everyone thought about wood heating stove for inside the house and which brand/kind was the best as far as efficency and convenince. I like the looks of the stoves with the glass front but how do you get the ashes out without putting out the fire. I am currently using a King wood circulator to heat 1300 square feet. I know a owb would be the best but I just can't justify that much right now


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## fiasco (Aug 4, 2011)

atvguns said:


> Just wondering what everyone thought about wood heating stove for inside the house and which brand/kind was the best as far as efficency and convenince. I like the looks of the stoves with the glass front but how do you get the ashes out without putting out the fire. I am currently using a King wood circulator to heat 1300 square feet. I know a owb would be the best but I just can't justify that much right now


 
That's almost like asking "what's the best chainsaw?" over in the saw forum!!! 

I have a Vermont Castings Encore non-cat, and I love the top-load feature. That said, I think Jotul stoves are better-built nowadays. Don't know much about the non-yuppie stoves, it has to be pretty if it's in the living room!


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## rmount (Aug 4, 2011)

Your choice of best probably depends on if you drive a Ford, Chev or Dodge. I have a Pacific Energy "Alderlea" and can't think of anything that needs improving on it. Stoves burn front to back so when the fire has burned down a fair bit you can easily shovel out ashes from the front without disturbing the embers in the rear. We heat 1200 sg ft with no problem.


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## shelbythedog (Aug 4, 2011)

Here I go singing the praises of my QuadraFire 4300, again. Like the above post I can't think of anything I would change on the stove or wish to improve. North-South loading is my preference, and being lined in firebrick is a definite bonus. It has an ash drawer that I have never used, I just scoop the ash out twice a week with a small shovel. Easily heats 1400 sq. ft. with 10 hour burn times. I too wanted an OWB, but couldn't come up with the $. The indoor stove has advantages of its own and does a great job meeting my 24/7 heating needs.


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## Ronaldo (Aug 4, 2011)

I am heating 2000 sq. ft. w/a Pacific Energy Super 27 free standing stove and think it does a great job. Glass front(easy to monitor fire) and it has an ash pan too, so clean out is easy and clean.

Ron


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## CTYank (Aug 4, 2011)

Ditto what Ronaldo said about the ash pan. Then, some folks have no problem removing ashes with coals still glowing, without ash pan.
To me, firebrick lining is an absolute necessity, for clean-burning, efficiency, and longevity of iron. :msp_biggrin:


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## atvguns (Aug 4, 2011)

One more question Does the stoves that load from the front pose a risk of wood rolling out when you open the door say you decide to throw one more stick on just before bed and the thing is still pretty full


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## shelbythedog (Aug 4, 2011)

atvguns said:


> One more question Does the stoves that load from the front pose a risk of wood rolling out when you open the door say you decide to throw one more stick on just before bed and the thing is still pretty full


 
Stoves that have a door in the front and open like a conventional refrigerator are generally loaded with the wood sitting front to back. Think of it as the ends of the wood at 12 and 6 o'clock. The only way wood can roll is to the sides of the stove, leaving little chance of a log rolling out the door toward the person loading.


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## Iron man (Aug 4, 2011)

My stove has a front glass door.Its wider than it is deeper and the inside top gets higher from rear to front so I fit more in loading it sideways.The squarest ones are the base and the rectangular pieces go on the top to fit the most in because the top slopes.It doesn't have an ash removal try but I'm not sure its something that would benefit me because I noticed when there's a layer of ash the coals tend to burn slower so in the am I can just throw some in and it re fires.


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## 727sunset (Aug 4, 2011)

I have the medium sized Pacific Energy stove. PE has a convenient trap door feature where ashes fall into a drawer underneath. The following day you can safely pull the drawer and dispose of ashes. The stove is well built and easy to operate.
Stoves that load from the front are most common. Loading the stove is easy when wood can be shoved straight in from the front. The sides of firebox will support the logs allowing wood to be stacked right to the top.
For best efficiency look for an "EPA" type stove. They have some sort of baffle in top of firebox that burns your smoke a second time, minimizing emissions as well as providing burns that will continue thru the night. They will also provide more heat/use less fuel. 
What brands are sold in your area?


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## atvguns (Aug 4, 2011)

So you guys are telling me that on a glass front stove you load them to where the end of the wood points to the door not the side of the wood


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## shelbythedog (Aug 4, 2011)

atvguns said:


> So you guys are telling me that on a glass front stove you load them to where the end of the wood points to the door not the side of the wood


 
Yes


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## 046 (Aug 5, 2011)

OWB would NOT be best!

in fact it's probably the worst for you. not enough sq ft to justify
then factor in hostility towards OWB in general. 
lots of areas are outlawing OWB due to a few folks that's smoking out others. 

don't think you could go wrong with only 1300 sf to heat. most any new EPA rated stove would do the job nicely. 



atvguns said:


> Just wondering what everyone thought about wood heating stove for inside the house and which brand/kind was the best as far as efficency and convenince. I like the looks of the stoves with the glass front but how do you get the ashes out without putting out the fire. I am currently using a King wood circulator to heat 1300 square feet. I know a owb would be the best but I just can't justify that much right now


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## Iron Head (Aug 5, 2011)

Give Lopi a look.
Don't let the house sqf be your main rating.
You need to consider where the stove/insert is placed and it's position with respect to the house.


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## Swamp Yankee (Aug 5, 2011)

Loaded question

I know of no one that owns or has owned a Jotul that has anything but good things to say. I have wood customers with 25 and 30 year old 702s that get a coat of stove black every so often but burn beautifully. I have a Jotul 118, and previous to that a Dover. Both have long 24 inch fireboxes and this one feature i really, really like. It allows you to get a good charge of wood, with the associated longer burn time, in without using a shoehorn.

Another stove that seems really well made with great reviews is Morso. Worth a look.

All that said, my first stove was a used All-Nighter Little Moe that I used for 15 years with no complaints. Really liked the blower feature that pulled cool air back to the stove and forced it through the heat pipes in the firebox.

There are a lot of good stoves out there, it's best to just get out, shop, and find what you like. Be sure to ask the dealer(s) about delivery.

Take Care


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## Ronaldo (Aug 5, 2011)

atvguns,my Pacific Energy stove does load so the end of the wood is facing out to the glass window (door).It burns from front to back,has the secondary burn technology and really throws off the heat when needed.I load at night-around 9-10 o'clock-and there are nice coals at 6-7 0'clock in the morning and the fire starts very easily too. I looked into Regency,Quadra-Flame,Lopi,Vermont Castings and more but decided on the P.E. Price was one factor,had a dealer close by and I like the stainless steel baffle sec. burn design better than a catalyst.From my research and experience the cats can be finicky and are not as durable and need replaced occasionally.The final selling point on the P.E.was the Floating Firebox design-the framework that holds the firebrick inside the stove is not directly fastened to the outer steel plate shell.This allows them to expand and contract during heating and cooling cycles independently and causes less stress on the whole unit.I have had mine for 12 years or so now and it works as well now as when new.


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## slowp (Aug 5, 2011)

You can load wood either way in a square shaped stove. I do both. Yes, if you opened it up, a chunk could roll out, but you don't just yank open the door when it is burning--you crack the door open for a few seconds first.

I have a new house with a whole house fan that is on a timer. I found out that I also need to make sure the fan is off before opening the door on the stove, or the smoke comes out.

I just went with what the local dealer sold. They sold Quadra fires, which is a brand that has been around for a while. 

You live in Missouri, so maybe have a milder climate than most. I live in what is usually a mild winter climate--temps in the 30s and 40s. I find that I can't burn a fire all the time because my house gets too hot.
I usually light a fire in the morning, and maybe one in the late afternoon. Your ash cleanout question may be a moot point.


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## Wife'nHubby (Aug 5, 2011)

Ford or Chevy? 

I love my Jotul Oslo. We opted for the blue/black finish instead of the more traditional black. The blue/black is like an enamel but without the chipping that comes with enamel. We couldn't be happier - our oil man no longer likes us though... 

Shari


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## zogger (Aug 5, 2011)

*25 buck yard sale special*

that's what we use. Loads from the front, or the top swings back and you can drop a mambo big chunk in for "all niters".

I ain't spending a grand on some woodstove. It's a box, air comes in one side, combusts with the wood gases, then exhausts the other side. 

You are much better off doing a REAL analysis of your home for air leaks and so on and adding insulation and tightening cracks, etc with that extra money, and adding in planned air in and out with a heat exchanger. You'll get permanent better "mileage" from your wood stack that way. I used to be in the retrofit biz and did a lot where the homeowner claimed they "had good insulation". Well, our "before and after" infra red photography showed that that isn't the case, and the severe drop in energy bills the following month further proved it. Most homes in the around 2,000 square foot size have around a three foot by three foot total area opening to the outside world, if you add up just the air leaks. That is a HUGE hole in the wall, but they don't see it because it is in the form of cracks and pipes going in and out, etc. Plus, vast majority of insulation that is installed is done incorrectly, plus it isn't enough. Then windows..double pane ain't enough, real insulated windows are triple pane argon gas filled, and/or tight fitting quilted indoor shades.

Spend the money on more insulation once, it pay thereafter forever. Then get a fancy ambiance glass front heater. Priorities. You don't go outside with just a light jacket in the winter when it is zero out..well, neither should your house.

I simply can't get across with words how well this tech works, and just how much it drops heating and cooling costs, you got to see it to believe it. I'll give you two examples, heating, then cooling, from jobs we did. Try a house in Maine, less than one cord for the whole winter. Try a house in central missouri, the air conditioning in the middle of summer only cycled once every day and a half. That's after retrofit to super insulation standards.

Superinsulation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## JimmyT (Aug 5, 2011)

I,m been heating a 4000 sq. ft. log home for 25 years with a mid seventies Fisher Stove that will take 31 inch firewood. If I ever upgrade to a new stove I will probably go with a Isle Royale made by Quadra-Fire.

http://
www.
quadrafire.com/Products/Isle-Royale-Wood-Stove.aspx


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## Wood Doctor (Aug 5, 2011)

*I'll Second That...*



Wife'nHubby said:


> Ford or Chevy?
> 
> I love my Jotul Oslo. We opted for the blue/black finish instead of the more traditional black. The blue/black is like an enamel but without the chipping that comes with enamel. We couldn't be happier - our oil man no longer likes us though...
> 
> Shari


 
If I ever change out my Federal AirTight 288 (no longer made), it will likely be with a Jotul Oslo. Meanwhile, if you can get one of these vintage brews on a bargain, buy it:







Takes up to a 24" log. Not the easiest to use, but once you get the hang of it, they are nice.


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## lampmfg (Aug 5, 2011)

*Kuuma Vapor Fire Furnaces*

If your looking for the most efficient (overall efficiency 84%) and cleanest burning (less than 1 gram of emissions p/h) forced air wood furnace in the world (backed by Intertek testing results) do some research on the Kuuma Vapor Fire Furnace line at Kuuma (Green) Wood Furnaces and Sauna Stoves by Lamppa Manufacturing Inc..

Well it's all about safety, high efficiency, and enhancing our environment when it comes to burning wood using a VaporFire Wood Furnace. "Smokeless" burns say it all...

"NO SMOKE MEANS NO CREOSOTE AND NO POLLUTION."


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## Fyrebug (Aug 6, 2011)

So as to answer your immediate questions: since most stove in the market are wider thane deeper you typically will load wood east/west. However serious wood burner would rather load Nort/south. There's not that many in the market that can do this. The exception to this is Osburn 2300 & Drolet Austral. Both good brands & value. 

Most stove also come with an ash pan. Although most people eventually use use an ash bucket. 

+1 on all comments to button up with house with insulation. 

As far as which stove you should get, well it depends. What is your budget? If money is no object a Hearthstone or Scan are beautiful and great burners. If you are more of a value/budget guy there are too many offerings to mention here. A word of caution, some of the least expensive stove found at big box store are made in China. Quality can be spotty and warranty very limited. 

Where will you be shopping? If in an Hearth shop look for brands like Osburn, Enerzone, Lopi, Pacific Energy etc. If on the Internet one of the best place to shop is Fireplace Accessories, Fireplace Doors & Screens, Firewood Rack, Chimney Caps, Outdoor Fireplaces, Gas Fire Pits-Woodlanddirect.com. They really know their stuff and Carry Osburn, Drolet & Century among other brands. You can also try Northern Tools for Drolet & Century. 

Let us know if you have any questions and we'll do our best to help you


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## CTYank (Aug 6, 2011)

zogger said:


> Spend the money on more insulation once, it pay thereafter forever. Then get a fancy ambiance glass front heater. Priorities. You don't go outside with just a light jacket in the winter when it is zero out..well, neither should your house.



And, if there's a loss-reduction factor more important than insulation, it's sealing. Lot's of research has been done on this, though it seems pretty obvious. Pubs avail. from GPO.
Worst case I've seen had significant openings in the basement and the attic. Classic chimney-effect. Wife would wear coat while tending to laundry in basement. Plug those holes -> huge difference.


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## Oldtimer (Aug 6, 2011)

*Accept no substitutes!*

Either of these is the ultimate indoor stove IMO.

[URL="http://nh.craigslist.org/for/2519793763.html"]http://nh.craigslist.org/for/2519793763.html

[/URL]Warner Wood Stove


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## audible fart (Aug 6, 2011)

I got lucky on my stove. Bought it at Lowes on clearance for about $430. Huge glass door, reflective blocks inside, a cat that seems to work really well. Made in canada. I guess the name is.somewhere on the back of it. It escapes me.


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## Hedgerow (Aug 6, 2011)

Oldtimer said:


> Either of these is the ultimate indoor stove IMO.
> 
> [URL="http://nh.craigslist.org/for/2519793763.html"]http://nh.craigslist.org/for/2519793763.html
> 
> [/URL]Warner Wood Stove


 
Yeah, those things are big... And can put out a ton of heat. Ugly as hell, and the OP's wife will tell him to pound sand, but I like it... (-:


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## Fyrebug (Aug 6, 2011)

Hedgerow said:


> Yeah, those things are big... And can put out a ton of heat. Ugly as hell, and the OP's wife will tell him to pound sand, but I like it... (-:


 
Well yes, they are big. They are also very inefficient that is why they needed to be so big. Save your money, get yourself a new or used EPA high efficient wood stove. They will reduce your wood usage by a third guaranteed. That's a third less cutting, splitting, cording etc. That's gotta be worth something.


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## zogger (Aug 6, 2011)

*You need a heat exchanger though*



CTYank said:


> And, if there's a loss-reduction factor more important than insulation, it's sealing. Lot's of research has been done on this, though it seems pretty obvious. Pubs avail. from GPO.
> Worst case I've seen had significant openings in the basement and the attic. Classic chimney-effect. Wife would wear coat while tending to laundry in basement. Plug those holes -> huge difference.



Or some kind of demand and planned air in and out. It is quite possible to seal a house so much that you start to run out of O2. But ya, heat loss is significant with the cracks, they all add up. 

I haven't built it yet, but my yardsale special heater has two separate air intakes, I am thinking of adding a direct connection to the outside world with one of them, to help eliminate drafting from all the cracks here.

This ain't my house, else it would have been gutted and reinsulated/rebuilt a long time ago. It's an ancient cabin, to say it is leaky is being kind....the owner wants to keep it "original"...sorta fries my grits seeing as how I am so much of an alternative energy and superinsulation guy, but......gots no choice in the matter. There's nothing-zero- in the walls and the smallest possible amount of insulation you could put in a ceiling and still call it insulated...


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## Oldtimer (Aug 6, 2011)

Fyrebug said:


> Well yes, they are big. They are also very inefficient that is why they needed to be so big. Save your money, get yourself a new or used EPA high efficient wood stove. They will reduce your wood usage by a third guaranteed. That's a third less cutting, splitting, cording etc. That's gotta be worth something.


 
Bull. 

My brother has used the bigger one (Warner) in his home for years now. It's absolutely every bit as efficient as any modern EPA strangled junk. (And I have owned a "modern" EPA recommended junk stove.)

How can it not be, since he can kill the fire dead by cutting off the draft, and he can go all winter and not have to clean his stove pipe or chimney? And he burns 4 cords a year in a remodeled 24 x 65 doublewide...and it's his primary heat. He has a K1 monitor that uses maybe 75 gallons a season, kicks on when no one is there to put wood in the stove.

I am telling you, these stoves are THE SHIZZ to heat large spaces. No worry about over-firing it either. PLATE STEEL baby!


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## Misfit138 (Aug 6, 2011)

Here's my Country Stove S160:




It used to be the cleanest, most efficient stove a couple years back. Now it is advertised as 'one of the cleanest, most efficient stoves on the market'..
It is rated at 68,000 BTU and burns clean as a whistle. I just cleaned out my chimney, and there was almost zero carbon and zero creosote to speak of after a full burn season from October 2010 thru April 2011.
Country Stove was bought out by Lennox hearth products, another good name in heating. They make units rated to heat up to 3,500 sq. ft. Definitely worth a look.

I would generally recommend a steel, EPA-rated stove piped into a straight and simple steel chimney if you can get it. When it comes to wood heat, simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. 

If you want to go a completely different route, you can also build a simple barrel stove fabrication project. A 55 drum, some fire brick, barrel stove kit from Vogelzang, 1/4" steel plate and some 3/4" black pipe can build you a 150,000BTU beast with _functional secondary burn_ that will heat a whole house for very little money.
‪Barrel Stove with secondary air tubes‬&rlm; - YouTube


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## PA Plumber (Aug 6, 2011)

Free standing Pacific Energy Summit - Non-Cat.
Heat approx. 2400 sq.ft. and use about 30 gallons of fuel oil per winter.
When temps stay in the mid teens, and lower, the oil fired forced air heat might run once per day. 
Great stove.


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## sunfish (Aug 6, 2011)

Spencer, we have a Jotul 118 and absolutely love it! 

It's not large, but takes 24" wood and is almost too much for our 1200 sq feet.

Have had a number of different stoves in 30 years and this one is by far the best.


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## Misfit138 (Aug 6, 2011)

Steve's barrel stove is inspiring. This is probably one of my favorite fabrication videos ever.
‪steves homemade wood stove the sequel‬&rlm; - YouTube


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## wendell (Aug 6, 2011)

atvguns said:


> So you guys are telling me that on a glass front stove you load them to where the end of the wood points to the door not the side of the wood


 
Only if your stove is deeper than it is wide. Jotul, PE, Quadra-fire, Woodstock, etc are all good choices. Morso makes fantastic stoves but they do have smaller fireboxes so you will not get much of an overnight burn.

To get the most efficient burn, you don't want to "add a log" on your way to bed. Best to always let each load burn down to coals before you reload.


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## promac850 (Aug 7, 2011)

wendell said:


> Only if your stove is deeper than it is wide. Jotul, PE, Quadra-fire, Woodstock, etc are all good choices. Morso makes fantastic stoves but they do have smaller fireboxes so you will not get much of an overnight burn.
> 
> To get the most efficient burn, you don't want to "add a log" on your way to bed. Best to always let each load burn down to coals before you reload.


 
Is Lopi good? I has one...

I reckon I already know the answer to that one...  It's a good little stove. You'll know it when you have to move it down a flight of stairs, and place it on the hearth...

All we've done so far is replace an old ass door seal. Otherwise, we haven't had a problem with it, so far. I heard the secondary burn tubes on many stoves will eventually rust out and need to be replaced. Door gaskets are the other thing.


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## Fyrebug (Aug 7, 2011)

promac610 said:


> Is Lopi good? I has one...
> 
> I reckon I already know the answer to that one...  It's a good little stove. You'll know it when you have to move it down a flight of stairs, and place it on the hearth...
> 
> All we've done so far is replace an old ass door seal. Otherwise, we haven't had a problem with it, so far. I heard the secondary burn tubes on many stoves will eventually rust out and need to be replaced. Door gaskets are the other thing.


 
Lopi is a good brand.

If you're concerned about the glass & tube, only Osburn & Enerzone brand that I know of offers a lifetime warranty on those. They will go so far as replace the glass even if you do something silly like closing the door on a log.


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## Fyrebug (Aug 7, 2011)

Oldtimer said:


> Bull.
> 
> My brother has used the bigger one (Warner) in his home for years now. It's absolutely every bit as efficient as any modern EPA strangled junk. (And I have owned a "modern" EPA recommended junk stove.)
> 
> ...



I don't know you're brother specific set up, so I'll speak in generalities. The reason why the old air tight needed a cast iron damper and were so big is they burned so hot & fast. another way you know they were inefficient is they needed to be vented on a large chimney 8" or more. If you don't believe me ask your brother to read the flue temp at about 18" above the stove on high fire. It will read between 600 - 800 F or more. Back drafting was hardly ever an issue since they sent so much heat up the chimney. 

Now an EPA wood stove is so efficient is burns the smoke ( also a fuel), the flue temp on high fier should not be much more above 350 F. Which means more of the heat stays in your house. Also you save major coinage since you only have to vent it on a 6" chimney. I can almost guarantee if your brother were to switch to an EPA stove he will not look back. Don't believe me just ask all the users on this site who went from an old smoke dragon to a high-efficient unit. 

I agree with you plate steel is good stuff. Most EPA stoves are made with it. Osburn for example uses 3/8 top plate steel which is probably thicker than your Brother's stove.


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## sachsmo (Aug 7, 2011)

Woodstock Fireview is a super stove.


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## Billy_Bob (Aug 7, 2011)

I'm glad I bought a "larger" wood stove as opposed to a "smaller" wood stove. And larger meaning it is deeper than it is wide on the inside.

With that woodstove, I can load long pieces of wood. I don't need to cut everything short so it will fit.


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## logbutcher (Aug 7, 2011)

Woodstoves are like women: no 'best one'. It's all a matter of taste--all other things being equal (like heat).

We've heated with wood in northern New England for too damn long, with so many wood stoves that the brain can't remember (CRS).
From early Ashley, Frankin Fireplace, barrel stove, Lange, Fisher, Vermont Castings, Morso, Jotul, Tempwood....used all of them to heat home and workshop usually over 90% of heating. Most wood stoves are just for supplemental (the "up from" the thermostat set at 65 F ) or entertainment for the occasional romantic interlude.:msp_scared:

For the past 10 years we use 2, heating 99% of both equal parts of a well-insulated place in Downeast Maine. One is a cat cast iron, the other a non-cat cast. The stoves eat about 6-8 cords/ year of medium BTU wood harvested from our woodlots ( Paper Birch & Red/Soft Maple). Both stoves are EPA rated and around 6 years old.

The cat stove uses close to 1/4 less wood for the same heat as the non-cat. Cats have a bad rep because of the added minor maintenance of the combustor, the extra step in burning, and the life expectancy of cats, now changing with the new metal cats. It's a user thing.

Best stove is the one that you like the looks of, does the job you want, and has low maintenance. Cast or steel, cat or non-cat, new or used is a user decision. 

My bias is quality: Jotul, Woodstock, Pacific Energy. Since we heat with the stoves, the extra log load is burnt before bedtime; who wants to get up at oh-dark-hundred to cold stoves, cold house, cold bodies ?:angry2:


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## blacklocst (Aug 7, 2011)

Fyrebug said:


> Well yes, they are big. They are also very inefficient that is why they needed to be so big. Save your money, get yourself a new or used EPA high efficient wood stove. They will reduce your wood usage by a third guaranteed. That's a third less cutting, splitting, cording etc. That's gotta be worth something.


Bought a new(30% tax credit) Jotul cb 600 firelight last year to replace my Vermont Casting Defiant non cat. with a secondary combustion chamber made in 1983 when Vt. castings made quality stoves, that stove was a beast, had a stretch when the day time temps didn't reach 10 degrees and we were walking around the house (2000.sq. ft. saltbox) in short sleeves. Didn't have to empty an ash pan like I do now, all I had to do was just move the coals to the back and take a couple scopes of ashes and put it into an ash bucket, now I have to slide out the ash pan (what a mess! and worst invention in the 21st century IMO ) out and walk around with ashes flying in my face. On the plus side I love being able to see flames dancing in the box and be able to see when its time to reload. AS for saving wood I don't think Im saving that much if at all .......I miss that stove!


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## laynes69 (Aug 7, 2011)

We went from a non EPA woodfurnace to a EPA certiified woodfurnace. The difference was huge. The old furnace had a 6.5 cu ft firebox that had to be completely filled to get an overnight 
burn. The new furnace has a 3.5 cu ft firebox that burns longer which puts more btus in the
house per load. We dont have the extreme temperature swings that we use to have, just a 
good even heat during the burn. We dropped at least 2 cords from our consumption and used 
zero lp. Where before we used a half tank because the fire would die out in the morning. We 
tried to burn hot and clean, but even then we could easily pull half a 5 gallon bucket of 
creosote from the chimney. With the new unit, usually it's a few cups every couple of months 
or so. I would never purchase another unit unless it was EPA certified. I hear the stories of 
those at work burning in old stoves and furnaces. They all complain about dirty chimneys, 
short burns and wood consumption. I don't care if a unit burns 14 hours. If it's smoldering and producing loads of smoke it's an inefficient burn wasting fuel and causing creosote. Ever since I switched to something EPA certified, it's opened my eyes.


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## Streblerm (Aug 7, 2011)

blacklocst said:


> Bought a new(30% tax credit) Jotul cb 600 firelight last year to replace my Vermont Casting Defiant non cat. with a secondary combustion chamber made in 1983 when Vt. castings made quality stoves, that stove was a beast, had a stretch when the day time temps didn't reach 10 degrees and we were walking around the house (2000.sq. ft. saltbox) in short sleeves. Didn't have to empty an ash pan like I do now, all I had to do was just move the coals to the back and take a couple scopes of ashes and put it into an ash bucket, now I have to slide out the ash pan (what a mess! and worst invention in the 21st century IMO ) out and walk around with ashes flying in my face. On the plus side I love being able to see flames dancing in the box and be able to see when its time to reload. AS for saving wood I don't think Im saving that much if at all .......I miss that stove!


 
So if I understand correctly you prefer the old VC defiant over the Jotul? I was looking at either a Lopi Liberty or a Jotul F500 Oslo to replace my '80s Defiant monster. My choices are somewhat limited due to my stove's position on a hearth in the corner of the room. I really like side loading but I have to load from the left side. The hearth isn't terribly deep so I can't go with a deep stove unless I rework the hearth and put offsets in the stovepipe. Right now it is a straight shot up and out.

I have held off replacing the old monster for exactly the reason you mention. I would hate to be less satisfied with the new stove after spending the money. If it isn't saving you any wood that would really piss me off. I am currently burning about 7-8 cords a year keeping 2500SF of drafty old farmhouse WARM.

I have the old 1 piece fireback in mine and it is starting to crack and warp. I clean it and reseal it every year and it is slowly getting worse. I have seen parts available online for about $600 to rebuild mine. I haven't researched their actual availability, but now I may give it some more serious consideration. I really do like the Defiant and if I can't cut my wood consumption by a significant amount, I don't really see any reason to replace it. It will probably be good for another 30+ years, maybe more. I bought the stove used and the crack was already there


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## Streblerm (Aug 7, 2011)

laynes69 said:


> We went from a non EPA woodfurnace to a EPA certiified woodfurnace. The difference was huge. The old furnace had a 6.5 cu ft firebox that had to be completely filled to get an overnight
> burn. The new furnace has a 3.5 cu ft firebox that burns longer which puts more btus in the
> house per load. We dont have the extreme temperature swings that we use to have, just a
> good even heat during the burn. We dropped at least 2 cords from our consumption and used
> ...


 
With my defiant I have never gotten more than about half a sandwich bag full of creosote out of a yearly cleaning, even burning less than seasoned wood. I can consistently get good heat out of it for 6-8 hours and have enough coals to easily relight a fire for 8-12 hours depending on what I'm burning and how it stacks in the stove. I don't use a flue damper, only the intake damper.

Methinks it is time to start looking at that rebuild kit.


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## wendell (Aug 7, 2011)

Streblerm, I bought an Oslo last year as my second stove and love it. I used to have a Fireview and get infinitely less ash in the house with the ash pan on the Oslo. Not sure how fast the previous poster is walking through his house but I don't get any ash flying out as I'm going out to dump it.

My other choice was a PE Alderlea T6 which I know would've also been a really good choice but got a great price on the Oslo.

And Kyle, I think Lopi is also a fine brand, I just don't have any experience with them.


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## Oldtimer (Aug 7, 2011)

Fyrebug said:


> I don't know you're brother specific set up, so I'll speak in generalities. The reason why the old air tight needed a cast iron damper and were so big is they burned so hot & fast. another way you know they were inefficient is they needed to be vented on a large chimney 8" or more. If you don't believe me ask your brother to read the flue temp at about 18" above the stove on high fire. It will read between 600 - 800 F or more. Back drafting was hardly ever an issue since they sent so much heat up the chimney.
> 
> Now an EPA wood stove is so efficient is burns the smoke ( also a fuel), the flue temp on high fier should not be much more above 350 F. Which means more of the heat stays in your house. Also you save major coinage since you only have to vent it on a 6" chimney. I can almost guarantee if your brother were to switch to an EPA stove he will not look back. Don't believe me just ask all the users on this site who went from an old smoke dragon to a high-efficient unit.
> 
> I agree with you plate steel is good stuff. Most EPA stoves are made with it. Osburn for example uses 3/8 top plate steel which is probably thicker than your Brother's stove.



I had an "early" Cat stove, it was new- this was at least 18 years ago.. Hated it. Had room enough for exactly 2 sticks of 18" wood. When it worked, it did throw awesome heat. But it was such a pain to keep it in that sweet spot. We went cold a lot with that POS. I have an Ashley myself, non-cat and non secondary burn.. It works OK, but nothing to brag about. 
My brother's big Warner has a damper in the stove pipe, and yes, it's an 8" pipe. He never uses the damper- he only has it there to cut off air-flow in case of a creosote fire. But as I said, he never has a creosote problem, and his chimney is almost always sending up just a wisp of white smoke. Very rarely does it belch out a cloud of smoke. My Ashley does however..I hope to purchase a super-sized Warner or Fisher that will take a 30-36" stick just for the ease of feeding whatever I can drag home from the landing.
I would consider a newer secondary burn stove except I have yet to find one I like the design of.
A $500 - $800 Warner or Fisher or Old Mill I like and can afford.

I'm telling you, when my brother's is going in good shape you can't stand within 4' of it. It's crazy. In this 230 year old farm I have, that's exactly what I am looking for.


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## stumpy75 (Aug 7, 2011)

View attachment 193325


Not sure where to find this any more, but I have been burning a medium Buck for some 20 years or more. It has what was considered, at the time, a revolutionary secondary burn chamber.  Bought it just as the first catalytic stoves were hitting the market.


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## sachsmo (Aug 7, 2011)

Oldtimer should like this old hunk of iron and steel.
Early to mid '70s made in Ohio, yeah when you get her cookin' stand back!
I can load her with 20" pieces North/South or East/West.


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## Oldtimer (Aug 7, 2011)

Nice. 
I prefer a single door though.


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## lon (Aug 7, 2011)

I have the Jotul Oslo in the house and shop. Could not be more pleased with each one.


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## blacklocst (Aug 7, 2011)

Streblerm said:


> So if I understand correctly you prefer the old VC defiant over the Jotul? I was looking at either a Lopi Liberty or a Jotul F500 Oslo to replace my '80s Defiant monster. My choices are somewhat limited due to my stove's position on a hearth in the corner of the room. I really like side loading but I have to load from the left side. The hearth isn't terribly deep so I can't go with a deep stove unless I rework the hearth and put offsets in the stovepipe. Right now it is a straight shot up and out.
> 
> I have held off replacing the old monster for exactly the reason you mention. I would hate to be less satisfied with the new stove after spending the money. If it isn't saving you any wood that would really piss me off. I am currently burning about 7-8 cords a year keeping 2500SF of drafty old farmhouse WARM.
> 
> ...


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## PA Plumber (Aug 7, 2011)

stumpy75 said:


> View attachment 193325
> 
> 
> Not sure where to find this any more, but I have been burning a medium Buck for some 20 years or more. It has what was considered, at the time, a revolutionary secondary burn chamber.  Bought it just as the first catalytic stoves were hitting the market.


 
Those pics bring back some cold memories...

When I was growing up, our family heated an old farm house with a similar looking unit. Ours didn't have the glass in the front doors and we had a damper in the flue just above the stove.

In the winter, I'd often have frost across the floor and up two walls of my bedroom.
One bitter cold winter, there was frost across the top of my blankets.


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## logbutcher (Aug 7, 2011)

Like any new technology there's a learning curve to get it right. EPA regs were developed to burn cleanER and save fuel.

EPA non cats like our Jotul Oslo are Mommie burners :msp_wub: with limited control of air: not too high, not too low. Unlike the old VC Defiant (and our old Vigilant ) you cannot damp the beast way down or shut off. The air control with some cat stoves (our VC cat Encore) can be shut down to almost nil.

The VC Defiant was a powerful beast, one of the largest if not THE biggest hunk of iron out there. Enormous firebox, mass, and an ingenious bypass system to maximize reburning. Butt It is old tech. The Jotul 600 is no Defiant in mass, but is efficient and clean. 

BTW: the ash pans in the EPA VC's and Jotuls are a pleasure to use. Please: don't dump against the wind.:msp_sad:


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## stumpy75 (Aug 7, 2011)

PA Plumber said:


> Those pics bring back some cold memories...
> 
> When I was growing up, our family heated an old farm house with a similar looking unit. Ours didn't have the glass in the front doors and we had a damper in the flue just above the stove.
> 
> ...



I agree that the newer stoves are more efficient. However, the older air-tight stoves with the secondary burn were not and are not too bad! The Buck stove I have replaced an old Franklin type non-airtight stove that had the damper in the flue and a Magic-Heat unit in the stack. Now THAT one was one inefficient stove, and pulled out more heat that it produced!

I'm happy with the unit I have, and can't, right now, justify the cost of a newer non-catalytic one... It does what I need it to do, and it's long since paid for! :msp_smile:

However, the OP has an even older unit than I have(I think), and it's probably time to update it.


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## Coldfront (Aug 8, 2011)

I'm on board with the Pacific Energy Spectrum, heats my whole house 2,000 sq ft. and that is in northern WI where we have a lot of below zero temps. And always have coals still burning in the morning. I went to clean the chimney this spring but there was nothing to clean, I mean the chimney pipe was as clean as a whistle even at the top.


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## fordracer (Aug 8, 2011)

i myself prefer a fisher,i just finished installing this one,after repairing flu liner and extending brick hearth to accept it,also replaced all the fire brick in it and also made my baffle for it out of 2x2xquarter inch angle iron with fire brick laying in the baffle frame,sure hope it performs good.


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