# Is this Super 250 too far gone



## Brian13 (Apr 14, 2010)

I have a Super 250 that has spent the last 25 years or so in neglect. It is my fathers saw and when the carburetor needed to be rebuilt he put it in my grandfathers shop and left it. About 10 or 15 years ago the roof caved in on the shop so it has pretty much been sitting outside. I would like to restore it for my father, but I'm afraid its too late. I know for sure it needs a carburetor, muffler, ignition coil, fuel lines, and probably flywheel and points. I am new to rebuilding saw and have no experience with older saws, so even if this was possible it might be over my head. But if its possible I would like to rebuild it for my fathers birthday in September. Here are some pics I took. What do you think?View attachment 133015


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View attachment 133015


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## leeha (Apr 14, 2010)

If it turns over and piston and cylinder
look good, I would say give it a try.
Parts should be easy to find. Mcculloch
made lots of the 250's and super 250's.
I always like a challenge.


Lee


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## Brian13 (Apr 14, 2010)

I though it was frozen but it was the starter, it does turn over but rough. I haven't got to see the piston yet but it feels rusty or dirty.


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## DSS (Apr 14, 2010)

Pull it apart and have a look. You'll enjoy yourself if nothing else.

Get an IPL from someone on here so you'll have an idea of what to look for.

Good luck.


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## Brian13 (Apr 14, 2010)

Hopefully this weekend I will get to dig a little further and see what I have. I will post more pics as I go.


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## stinkbait (Apr 14, 2010)

Pull it down, rebore the cylinder, get an oversized piston and rings, some new bearings, a carb kit, blast it and paint it, and then assemble it. In the end you will have an awesome saw.


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## sefh3 (Apr 14, 2010)

If you need any parts for that saw let me know. I have an extra coil and flywheel for one (250 not super)... actually have all if it except the starter cover and recoil. Clean it up, tear it down, sand and repaint.


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## heimannm (Apr 14, 2010)

I think you should take that one completely apart and check it all carefully for corrosion. From the looks of the outside, I wouldn't be surprised if there is some corrosion in the fuel and oil tanks, and could be inside the crank case as well.

Most parts will be readily available, should be a fun project and a nice saw when you are finished.

Which carburetor on that one? Tillotson? McCulloch/Walbro "flat back"? Choke or primer?

Mark


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## Brian13 (Apr 14, 2010)

Gonna start tearing it down this weekend hopefully. I don't know what carburetor it has but it has a choke lever. I will definitely need a carburetor or rebuild kit, ignition coil, and muffler. I haven't got any farther than that. I Suspect the flywheel will be bad, the magnet still works but the points probably have rusted away. I am hoping corrosion wont be to bad but wont know for sure until I can really start taking it apart. Anybody know a good place to read about point ignition systems. I don't know how to adjust them and I figure if I start reading now I might know what I am doing by the time I get that far in the saw. This will be the biggest project yet so lets see how it goes.


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## heimannm (Apr 14, 2010)

Try searching here on AS, there are a few good threads that describe how the systems work and how to go about checking the components.

Mark


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## Stihl088stock (Apr 14, 2010)

Looks like the muffler isn't overly constricted, so you'll save some time there


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## Brian13 (Apr 14, 2010)

Stihl088stock said:


> Looks like the muffler isn't overly constricted, so you'll save some time there



Its my own personal design, just takes about 15 years to do.


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## Brian13 (Apr 14, 2010)

Another pic I took while cooking dinner. Its not pretty.


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## sefh3 (Apr 14, 2010)

Looks like an HL carb to me. Hard to see it through the grime. Great project for sure.


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## Brian13 (Apr 14, 2010)

As I dig further Ill post more pics. I did pull the spark plug and found water and orange crud of some sort. If I can get this thing running it will definitely be something to be proud of, for me at least.


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## Mastermind (Apr 14, 2010)

http://www.arboristsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=133016&d=1271249749

http://www.arboristsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=133017&d=1271249754


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## Mastermind (Apr 14, 2010)

Been trying to get your pics up...looks rough, but it's doable.


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## Brian13 (Apr 15, 2010)

Thank you still learning how to post pics.


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## Brian13 (Apr 22, 2010)

More pictures, not looking good. Carburetor looks like a Mcculloch, not sure if its worth rebuilding though. Lots of corrosion. Not sure where to start.




Gas tank is corroded real bad.




Oil tank is no better.













Does anyone have any recommendations for the flywheel, it is frozen on? And is the clutch pressed on or threaded on?
Thanks Brian


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## blsnelling (Apr 22, 2010)

I think I'd call that one scrap. Way too much corrosion!


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## Brian13 (Apr 22, 2010)

Its not looking pretty, that's for sure. If it was not my dads I probably would have gave up before I started. But I will at least try to clean it up and see what I have, probably cleaner scrap.


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## TRI955 (Apr 22, 2010)

Find somebody that can glass bead it, then see what you have. It still might clean up good.


Mike


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## Brian13 (Apr 22, 2010)

Was going to try sand and a wire brush, I will see if I can do bead blasting.


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## TRI955 (Apr 22, 2010)

I think sand blasting would be too harsh...


Mike


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## GASoline71 (Apr 22, 2010)

TRI955 said:


> Find somebody that can glass bead it, then see what you have. It still might clean up good.
> 
> 
> Mike





Brian13 said:


> Was going to try sand and a wire brush, I will see if I can do bead blasting.



I would say that would be a waste of time. That thing has just too much corrosion.

Was it stored under water? In the hull of a boat? I haven't seen that much corrosion on a saw in a long time...

Gary


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## Brian13 (Apr 22, 2010)

Believe it or not it was not a boat anchor, it sat in a shop that the roof caved in on a long time ago. The carb went bad and my dad just set it aside and always talked about fixing it. If I could either clean the gas and oil tank or find decent used ones how feasible is the rest of it? Ignition is shot, needs every gasket replaced, bearings, fuel lines, oilier parts, and clutch and sprocket. There is probably even more that I have not seen yet. The only good thing is the crank and cylinder i think might be usable. Am I just :deadhorse:


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## blsnelling (Apr 22, 2010)

I bet the crank is all rusted up too. Did this saw have a plated bore? If not, it's probably rusted too.


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## stinkbait (Apr 22, 2010)

It has a steel sleeve in the cylinder. I think that I would back out on this one.


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## blsnelling (Apr 22, 2010)

I guess if you can start by simply trying to get it all apart. That in and of itself may not be possible.


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## Brian13 (Apr 22, 2010)

I am already stuck on the flywheel and clutch. If I can get those off I will be able to really see what i got.


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## GASoline71 (Apr 22, 2010)

Well... I can tell you what you got without pullin' a single screw off of that thing...

...but it's your saw...

Gary


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## Kingsley (Apr 22, 2010)

That looks like a headache to get running.

What about turning it into a static display? Paint it up nice and hang it above the bench. That would be cheap and fun plus you'd still have your Dad's saw.


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## RandyMac (Apr 22, 2010)

:agree2:


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## Brian13 (Apr 22, 2010)

Maybe I will try to find all the parts at once, already assembled and take my parts and scrap them. I pretty much need everything replaced anyway. Does anybody know if the bar will fit any other saws? I have the bow saw bar and chain for it and would love to see it in use. I don't think it will fit my 044 but I haven't tried it.


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## Saw Dr. (Apr 22, 2010)

Well I would say that rebuilding that saw into a runner is a pretty tall order. As with anything man-made, it is repairiable. Just a function of how much time and money you want to sink into it. I would say you will have _*at least *_$250 into getting that saw into running shape. And that is counting on the fine folks here to set you up with some things you'll need. Super 250's are pretty good runners for that era of saw (see my avtar.) They are not as common as regular 250's, but they are not too hard to find. You need to decide how much $ you want to spend on it. You might want to find a regular MAC 200/250/300/380/450/550 to run for a few minutes. That should be enough to prove to you that you won't be running that saw very much even if you do rebuild it. I actually got frisky and felled a medium oak with my Super recently, but I bucked it with a newer saw.

Let my know if there is anything I can do to help you out. Even if it means taking that bow bar off your hands.


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## Brian13 (Apr 22, 2010)

This started out as a idea for a birthday present for my day witch is at the end of September. So I really want to get it running. But I think I am over my head. So for now I will try to take it all the way apart and attempt to clean it up. It will probably not end up anywhere but I want to say I tried. If my dad wasn't all ways telling me what a great saw it was I would have never even dug it out of its grave.


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## hoss (Apr 22, 2010)

:


TRI955 said:


> Find somebody that can glass bead it, then see what you have. It still might clean up good.
> 
> 
> Mike



:agree2:You'd be amazed what those little beads will do and they won't cause any further damage to your saw.


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## Brian13 (Apr 22, 2010)

Im gonna give it a go, I dont have any other saws to work on at the moment. I am just going in with low hopes. People with a lot more experience than me are saying its to far gone, but if anything it may help for any future old saws I may acquire. I will keep posting my progress as I go. Worst case I will have a clean boat anchor right.


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## Mastermind (Apr 22, 2010)

As was already said...even if you can never make a runner out of it you could still clean it up, give it a slick paint job and admire it's beauty.


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## blsnelling (Apr 22, 2010)

I would definately be sandblasting those parts.


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## leeha (Apr 22, 2010)

Brian, You have nothing to loose but time.
As long as it doesn't turn into a financial matter.
Sometimes for me the worse the saw the more
it becomes a good challenge.
As others have said, i would get it completely
apart and bead blast all corroded parts. Do a good
inspection and see what you have to work with.
The good thing about this style saw, Parts are
not that hard to find, Used or possibly new.

Good luck with it.

Lee


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## Brian13 (Apr 22, 2010)

That may well be the end result, we will see. I was just browsing through the Mcculloch thread and I am starting to think that I will end up getting one of those old saws weather this one ever runs again or not. Don't know why but something about those big old Mccullochs is making me want a running one to have for myself. Guess its kinda like hot rods.


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## Brian13 (Apr 26, 2010)

Would anybody be able to tell me what is the best way to remove this piece? It looks like on the clutch side there is four threaded holes for a tool like for splitting a regular case. If so does anybody have a pic of the tool so I know what to make?






Had an idea to clean the corrosion, tried baking soda and vinegar. Worked ok didn't spend alot of time on it only down side I can see so far is the corner and crevices are difficult to get to but it already looks better.Have not really found any pitting yet witch is a plus. A friend of mine suggested crushed walnut shells for the sand blaster. Said it takes off corrosion and rust without harming the metal, so I am going to look into that. 




Inside the cylinder is dirty from what I can see but has a fair amount of oil residue, no rust from what I can see, crank is pretty clean as well. Points looked real good, I think a new condenser, coil is all it needs there. All in all it is looking a little better than at first. As long as I can get the parts I will need I think it will be a runner again.


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## nmurph (Apr 26, 2010)

brian,
you are to be commended for your efforts. many said toss the saw. i would have agreed with them. i am glad you are beginning to make some progress. i understand the reason for you doing what you are doing. that is a laudable reason. 
here is a link to a soda blaster that might help you with your cleanup.

http://www.aircooledtech.com/tools-on-the-cheap/soda_blaster/

i can't take credit for this info. i have seen it given on here several times.

Good luck and send lots of pics.


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## blsnelling (Apr 26, 2010)

You can do just about anything you want to. You just have to want to bad enough. The fact that this was your dads saw is quite the motivator. With that said, I think bead blasting is the only way your going to get those parts cleaned up properly.


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## stinkbait (Apr 26, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> Would anybody be able to tell me what is the best way to remove this piece? It looks like on the clutch side there is four threaded holes for a tool like for splitting a regular case. If so does anybody have a pic of the tool so I know what to make?



Looks like you still have a bolt holding it together, to the left of the condensor, in the pic.


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## Brian13 (Apr 26, 2010)

nmurph said:


> brian,
> you are to be commended for your efforts. many said toss the saw. i would have agreed with them. i am glad you are beginning to make some progress. i understand the reason for you doing what you are doing. that is a laudable reason.
> here is a link to a soda blaster that might help you with your cleanup.
> 
> ...



Thanks for that imfo I am definitely going to try it, I still have to build something to contain the glass beads.


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## Brian13 (Apr 26, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> You can do just about anything you want to. You just have to want to bad enough. The fact that this was your dads saw is quite the motivator. With that said, I think bead blasting is the only way your going to get those parts cleaned up properly.


I still have to build something to contain the glass beads so they don't end up in the grass never to be used again. I have a bucket of sand but I want to try to avoid using that. Anybody have any pictures of simple blasting cabinets or what to use so that you don't lose all your media?



stinkbait said:


> Looks like you still have a bolt holding it together, to the left of the condensor, in the pic.



I really feel less than smart now, I thought that was just the casting but I just went and looked and sure enough there is another bolt. All I can say now is I feel dumb, thanks for the good eyes you probably saved me from really tearing something up.


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## heimannm (Apr 26, 2010)

There are six (6) 10-24 HHCS holding the side cover on that saw, once all six are removed look very carefully and you will find two of the holes are tapped for a 1/4-20 screw, with long screws installed you can easily use most any puller to separate the case. I think I have some pictures of this in the McCulloch 640 thread I put together a while back.

Mark


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## Brian13 (Apr 26, 2010)

heimannm said:


> There are six (6) 10-24 HHCS holding the side cover on that saw, once all six are removed look very carefully and you will find two of the holes are tapped for a 1/4-20 screw, with long screws installed you can easily use most any puller to separate the case. I think I have some pictures of this in the McCulloch 640 thread I put together a while back.
> 
> Mark



I noticed that when I was looking at it earlier. The 1/4 in. bolts I have seem to be the wrong thread so as soon as I can get to the hardware store I will pick some up. Thanks a bunch, that is about the last piece to take apart.


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## heimannm (Apr 26, 2010)

1/4-20 is standard coarse threads for 1/4" bolts, I would guess the threaded holes also have a lot of corrosion. Try chasing the threads with a tap if you have one (don't go too deep or you risk damaging the 10-24 threads in the block, or just use some oil on your screws and work them back and forth until you achieve about 1/4" engagement.

Mark


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## Brian13 (Apr 26, 2010)

I don't have a tap, but yes every thread is filled with crud, dust, and everything else. I will try the oil and work it slowly. Thanks again, as soon as I can get it apart I will put up some pics of the cylinder and piston.


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## Dan_IN_MN (Apr 26, 2010)

Brian

You can pick up a 1/4-20 tap at the hardware store when you get your bolts. See if you can get a bottoming tap which will clean the bottom threads. Also pick up some good penetrating oil.

Yes....that saw does look like a lot of work. Keep in mind that things didn't get stuck over night, so don't expect to get them moving over night.

Dan


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## Brian13 (Apr 29, 2010)

Just about got it completely apart. Only problem I have now is the clutch side bearing came with the crank and wont go past the connecting rod. Not sure how I am going to get around that. Once I figure that out some heavy cleaning can begin. What I was wondering is if there are enough parts on a regular 250 that are interchangeable that it would be worth getting one as a donor saw. There are some cheap on ebay right now. I am going to need some things like the ignition( flywheel, coil, condenser, wires, and switch) starter guts, carburetor, fuel lines, muffler, and every gasket on it and probably a piston, as well as a few other miscellaneous things. After I have cleaned everything up I will have a better idea exactly what needs to be replaced, I was just wondering if that would be a viable idea as to getting the alot of the parts I need. 
Thanks,
Brian


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## leeha (Apr 29, 2010)

The crank should come out with the bearing
if it's like the bigger saws. Just got to get the 
rod in the right position. Don't push the rod down
all the way or up i should say to the top of the
cylinder and let the rod go to one side. It should
clear the crank.


Lee


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## Brian13 (Apr 29, 2010)

That was what I was thinking, I did not pay attention to where the counter weights were and now I think I am going to have to press the crank back in and turn it to the so I can move the connecting rod to the proper position. Thats the part I am worried about. I dont want to damage anything more than what time already has.


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## knockbill (Apr 29, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> I still have to build something to contain the glass beads so they don't end up in the grass never to be used again. I have a bucket of sand but I want to try to avoid using that. Anybody have any pictures of simple blasting cabinets or what to use so that you don't lose all your media?
> 
> 
> i made a blasting cabinet out of an old dishwasher,,, cut a hole in the top for a piece of plexiglas, and another with a sleeve for your arm to hold teh nozzle,,put a bucket at teh bottom , after you remove the pump to hold teh media,,, works well, and its dust proof, (well waterproof, any way)...
> have fun, and good luck.....


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## heimannm (Apr 30, 2010)

As Lee has pointed out, the bearing will always come with the crank shaft and will move past the connecting rod if you get it in the correct position. It shouldn't require much in the way of pressing bearings back in, just carefully work the parts a bit and things should slide pretty freely.

When you get to the point of reassembling the saw, a good coat of grease on the connecting rod and cap will hold the 24 needle bearings in place as you put it back together.

That saw will have a cast iron/steel sleeve so you can give it a light hone if it needs a little cleaning up. Oversize pistons and rings are available but I've never looked for anyone that could bore the cylinder to the next oversize.

Mark


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## Brian13 (Apr 30, 2010)

heimannm said:


> As Lee has pointed out, the bearing will always come with the crank shaft and will move past the connecting rod if you get it in the correct position. It shouldn't require much in the way of pressing bearings back in, just carefully work the parts a bit and things should slide pretty freely.
> 
> When you get to the point of reassembling the saw, a good coat of grease on the connecting rod and cap will hold the 24 needle bearings in place as you put it back together.
> 
> ...



As soon as I get off work tomorrow morning I am going to work with it. The crank bearing are pretty much frozen so they will be getting tossed. Not completely sure how the inside of the cylinder will be but when I took off the connecting rod the piston moved freely. Depending on the inside I might be looking for the oversize. There are some machine shops in town here that might bore the cylinder out for me. And I was going to ask about the needle bearings, we use grease when doing loose ball bearing on bicycle wheels. Hopefully this weekend I will start with some soda blasting and see how that does. If that dosnt work well enough I will either build a blasting cabinet or see if I know anyone who does beed blasting. Should have some more pics in a few days.
Thank you everybody for the help and guidance so far.
Brian


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## Brian13 (May 1, 2010)

Finally have the whole saw apart, and all is not bad. Surprisingly the oilier still works. The impulse pump part(not sure of correct name) is clean on inside. The bearings after irrigating with some oil turn pretty smoothly. The inside of the cylinder is cleaner than I thought it would be. The piston is in great shape, the ring on top is stuck and there is another spot in question but it really looks good compared to the rest of the saw. This is what I am going to need for sure, does anybody see anything that will be a problem right off the bat.
Top handle/carb box and reed plate.
ignition coil
fly wheel
Im just gonna guess the condenser
carburetor 
spring and pulley for starter
piston rings
muffler
bearing seals
all gaskets and fuel lines

Possible things to replace 
the impulse pump
the cylinder base

I think the rest can be used. The carburetor may be able to be cleaned and rebuilt however I am not confident enough to take it that far apart and get it back together correctly. So I am thinking a Tilly conversion. I will put up some more pics in a day or so, my sister is getting married tonight so I wont have time this evening. 
Thanks Brian


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## sefh3 (May 1, 2010)

I have a 250 parts saw. PM me your email and I'll send you pictures of what I have. The points are bad on it but the rest is good. I have not tore it down and can't remember the compression.


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## Brian13 (May 2, 2010)

Everything is completely apart now. I am going to start blasting with some baking soda until I get or make a blasting cabinet. I have the glass in the garage already just need to be able to contain it. Here are some pics of the guts of this thing.
Piston is pretty clean no scoring, just the top ring is stuck in the groove and on the exhaust side of the wrist pin it is either filled with crud or what ever is there is rusted.





The cylinder is dirty but I think a honing brush will clean it up.




Crank is better than I expected as well.




Other than being dirty points look good to.





And this is my other motivation to see this run.




Hopefully it wont take to long to get everything cleaned up and I will be ready to assemble.


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## blsnelling (May 2, 2010)

Way to go! I'm glad you persevered.


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## Brian13 (May 2, 2010)

Cant wait to hear it run! But I have to give alot of thanks for the help and support getting it apart. If it wasnt for this place and the people hear the saw would still be in its grave.


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## Mastermind (May 2, 2010)

I would never got that far without throwing in the towel...Good on you for carrying on. I hope you get that bad boy up and running again, and it's gonna be cool looking with that bow on it.

Everyone rep that man...


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## Dan_IN_MN (May 3, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Way to go! I'm glad you persevered.



Good going!

(Brad...this is your 20,000 post!)

Dan


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## Brian13 (May 7, 2010)

Got a parts saw coming from Scott (thanks again) and a blasting cabinet coming. Looking for some paint and the rest of the parts Im gonna need. While I was at lowes I found some farm grade John Deere yellow paint, anybody think that would match up ok or to bright? Maybe next weekend might start having some pics of clean painted parts.


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## ric5141 (May 7, 2010)

Brian, I tried the JD color way too bright. I found a good match at Tractor supply but Moddified Mark thinks the gas will eat it. The paint that really matches is a valspar sun the paint number on the can was 21945. I am letting my parts cure at least a week maybe more see if that prevents the dissolving. 

Kudos to you for doing this one!


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## Brian13 (May 7, 2010)

Thanks I will go to Lowes and look for it tomorrow, even if it dissolves over time it will still look better than right now.


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## Mastermind (May 7, 2010)

I have used base and clear coat automotive paint on many engines in race cars, we nearly always used to same color as the car for the engine block and heads. I mentioned this wondering if any of you guys have ever used clear coat on a saw; and if so how did it hold up?


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## Brian13 (May 7, 2010)

I was wondering about that myself, due to hearing about the paint not holding up. This is my first major tear down and rebuild, so I dont have any experiance in the matter. But if anyone else has tried I would like to know how it worked should be going to get some paint tomarrow morning.


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## RandyMac (May 7, 2010)

look like we could be close to a Tilly transplant, only a few parts are needed for that.


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## heimannm (May 7, 2010)

The real key to a successful paint job is preparation, make absolutely sure the surfaces are clean and dry before you paint. 

I used Rustoleum Sunburst Yellow from a rattle can, not an exact match but pretty close. Let the paint cure thoroughly, even baking at low temp (<250°) to make sure it sets up before you put it together. 

I don't run this saw much, but the gas I slopped on it didn't seem to cause any ill effects.











Mark


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## Brian13 (May 8, 2010)

RandyMac said:


> look like we could be close to a Tilly transplant, only a few parts are needed for that.



I am really close, I am starting to look for parts now, so I can be ready to assemble after cleaning and painting. I am hoping that the carb box and reed plate are the same on a 250 so I can use the one I have on the way. What kind of parts am I looking at for the Tilly conversion?



heimannm said:


> The real key to a successful paint job is preparation, make absolutely sure the surfaces are clean and dry before you paint.
> 
> I used Rustoleum Sunburst Yellow from a rattle can, not an exact match but pretty close. Let the paint cure thoroughly, even baking at low temp (<250°) to make sure it sets up before you put it together.
> 
> ...



That looks really good, might try the baking. Is it safe to bake in the same oven you cook with or is something better for an oven that will not be used for food?


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## heimannm (May 8, 2010)

"Safe" depends on your spouse (if so equipped), if you can put chainsaw parts in the dishwasher then it's safe to bake your paint in the oven. It's probably a good idea to leave the door ajar for a while when your done to allow any last trace of vapors to escape.

If you think about it, when you bake something in a gas oven you are cooking it in the exhaust of a natural gas flame.

Mark


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## Brian13 (May 8, 2010)

heimannm said:


> "Safe" depends on your spouse (if so equipped), if you can put chainsaw parts in the dishwasher then it's safe to bake your paint in the oven. It's probably a good idea to leave the door ajar for a while when your done to allow any last trace of vapors to escape.
> 
> If you think about it, when you bake something in a gas oven you are cooking it in the exhaust of a natural gas flame.
> 
> Mark



Good point, not sure how the wife will take to me baking or using the dish washer. I think I might try the "its better to ask for forgiveness than ask for permission" tactic. Btw is it sage to assume that you use a primer before painting?


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## blsnelling (May 8, 2010)

I do it all the time. Not a big deal at all.


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## Brian13 (May 8, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> I do it all the time. Not a big deal at all.



Ask for forgiveness or use the oven? LOL


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## blsnelling (May 8, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> Ask for forgiveness or use the oven? LOL



Do it while she's not at home and open the windows. She'll never know the difference My wife doesn't bother me about it.


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## Brian13 (May 13, 2010)

Found a new toy at my doorstep this morning when I got home from work!!




Did some bead blasting today, I think I have some usable parts.














Got alot more cleaning to do and have to start painting. I think tomorrow I will try to get those two primed. I am moving along this definitely wont get done over night but I am making progres. Good thing I didnt want it done next week. Still have to get the blasting gun for the cabinet so I dont have to stop and refill the sandblaster every 2 min. and lose half of it in the process. Will be starting to order parts very soon. The carb box I have written off as well as the reed plate. Need to get the oiler button out so I can reuse it. And I am thinking about getting some gasket material and making some of the gaskets, so we will see how that goes. I have read about sealing the gas tank in another thread, is that the way to go with all the corrosion I have had? Or is it not really worth the time and money?


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## heimannm (May 13, 2010)

You might want to put some screws in any of the threaded holes when you are blasting to make sure you don't bugger up any threads.

I have sealed some fuel tanks with POR 15, one worked very well and the other seemed to bubble a little but both held fuel with no leaks. If you have a hole all the way through, or a large thin spot consider patching it with some JB Weld.

Be sure to flatten the sealing edges of the fuel tank (sand paper or emery cloth on a dead flat plate) before you reassemble, I would always use a gasket on a saw like that one, 10 Series might work O.K. with a sealer.

Mark


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## cbfarmall (May 13, 2010)

Wow, that's really coming along. Tell me, is that the auto oiler I still see bolted to the fuel tank? You might want to remove it and clean it. Don't lose the little check ball and spring.

Chris B.


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## Urbicide (May 13, 2010)

cbfarmall said:


> Wow, that's really coming along. Tell me, is that the auto oiler I still see bolted to the fuel tank? You might want to remove it and clean it. Don't lose the little check ball and spring.
> 
> Chris B.



Believe that's the fuel pulse pump. I prefer to use glass beads vs. sand inside a cabinet. What ever you do, don't breath in dust from sand blasting. (You need a real respirator with the proper cartridges at the very least. Disposable dust masks won't cut it.) Silicosis is irreversible. opcorn:


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## Brian13 (May 13, 2010)

heimannm said:


> You might want to put some screws in any of the threaded holes when you are blasting to make sure you don't bugger up any threads.
> 
> I have sealed some fuel tanks with POR 15, one worked very well and the other seemed to bubble a little but both held fuel with no leaks. If you have a hole all the way through, or a large thin spot consider patching it with some JB Weld.
> 
> ...


Tank is pretty solid no holes or thin spots that I can tell, and I was thinking sealing the magnesium to prevent further corrosion. Good call on protection the threds didnt even think about it.



Urbicide said:


> Believe that's the fuel pulse pump. I prefer to use glass beads vs. sand inside a cabinet. What ever you do, don't breath in dust from sand blasting. (You need a real respirator with the proper cartridges at the very least. Disposable dust masks won't cut it.) Silicosis is irreversible. opcorn:


I am using glass bead along with a N-95 style mask. I was going to use sand, but I was told that the glass bead would be safer on the saw and me. And I think your right thats the fuel pulse pump, I hope it still works.


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## Brian13 (May 13, 2010)

cbfarmall said:


> Wow, that's really coming along. Tell me, is that the auto oiler I still see bolted to the fuel tank? You might want to remove it and clean it. Don't lose the little check ball and spring.
> 
> Chris B.



Thanks, still dont see any light at the end of the tunnel yet but I am alot closer than I was. And its a manual oiler so I thinks its the pulse pump Urbicide mentioned.


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## heimannm (May 13, 2010)

Pretty sure that is a view of the front of the fuel tank, the oil tank bolts on to it and the pulse operated chain oil pump (where equipped) is inside the tank.

I think the 250 would have just had a gasket and cover over the pulse opening, the Super 250, 450, and 550 all had the pulse operated chain oiler.

Mark


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## Urbicide (May 13, 2010)

heimannm said:


> Pretty sure that is a view of the front of the fuel tank, the oil tank bolts on to it and the pulse operated chain oil pump (where equipped) is inside the tank.
> 
> I think the 250 would have just had a gasket and cover over the pulse opening, the Super 250, 450, and 550 all had the pulse operated chain oiler.
> 
> Mark



OK Mark, just checking to see if you were paying attention. You passed the test.


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## Brian13 (May 13, 2010)

I didnt know that was part of the oiler. I thought it was just a manual oiler. Thats cool I wonder if it will still work.


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## Saw Dr. (May 13, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> Thanks, still dont see any light at the end of the tunnel yet but I am alot closer than I was. And its a manual oiler so I thinks its the pulse pump Urbicide mentioned.





heimannm said:


> Pretty sure that is a view of the front of the fuel tank, the oil tank bolts on to it and the pulse operated chain oil pump (where equipped) is inside the tank.
> 
> I think the 250 would have just had a gasket and cover over the pulse opening, the Super 250, 450, and 550 all had the pulse operated chain oiler.
> 
> Mark



That pump is the auto oiler. It is a pulse operated oiler, and the manual system pumps through that auto system. The manual is in essence a primer for the automatic oiler. Sometimes those things are a real bugger to get running right. The fuel pump is part of the carburetor, and it is also impulse operated.


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## Brian13 (May 13, 2010)

Well the inside of it looks pretty good so I hope it still works. Worst case its not going to be a daily user just have to push the button alot.


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## sefh3 (May 13, 2010)

So tell us more, where did you get the blaster from? 
I have been looking for a small one and that looks like it would be very useful.


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## Brian13 (May 13, 2010)

I went on ebay got lucky found one that wasnt a buy it now and got a good price. Plus my dad went in half making it a real good deal. Its the same one you can get at Harbor Freight. It uses a gun with a siphon tube you just stick in the media in the bottom of the cabinet. So in theory everything should be contained and you should only have to take the media out if you want to change to a different media. I just didnt have the patience or the motivation to make one, so I just watched ebay and craigslist. Ebay happened to be the first deal I found. Today was my first attempt at bead blasting and I made a complete mess. It was missing the gun that came with it so I was using my dads big sand blaster and had to keep stopping and refiling. So today was slow going but I have the proper gun on the way and everything should be good.


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## heimannm (May 13, 2010)

The fitting in the photo is were the pulse operated oil pump would connect, I doubt g.the 250 had the actual oil pump, just a gasket and a cover over that opening.

Brian, send me a PM with your e-mail if you would like an IPL for the 250. It may help you understand how all those parts go back together again.

Mark


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## 8433jeff (May 13, 2010)

*Nice project. On sand(bead) blasting*

Just to inform you. A N95 mask is a lot better than nothing, but it gets its name from how much it stops at peak performance, if its fitted properly, and thats 95%. Now, outside with a gentle breeze, I'd consider that plenty good. Inside, no ventilation and prolonged blasting, or ,well, you get the point. I knew (really, I did) a guy who had silicosis. Actually worked with him sandblasting transit buses a few days, and I worked normally in a different part of the garage. He did that for about 1 1/2 years, and it took him out. He wore a mask (when he wasn't smoking, and that was a contributer no doubt), but never shaved and thats what he did and wasn't too concerned about silicosis. After he had to give up cigs, and wear o2, and live a life that sucked for a couple years, he kinda give up. At 34.


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## Brian13 (May 13, 2010)

heimannm said:


> The fitting in the photo is were the pulse operated oil pump would connect, I doubt g.the 250 had the actual oil pump, just a gasket and a cover over that opening.
> 
> Brian, send me a PM with your e-mail if you would like an IPL for the 250. It may help you understand how all those parts go back together again.
> 
> Mark



PM sent. Is this the photo we are talking about?





The piece in the middle of the gas tank that has three screws to remove and a plunger inside. Is this the oil pulse pump?


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## Brian13 (May 13, 2010)

8433jeff said:


> Just to inform you. A N95 mask is a lot better than nothing, but it gets its name from how much it stops at peak performance, if its fitted properly, and thats 95%. Now, outside with a gentle breeze, I'd consider that plenty good. Inside, no ventilation and prolonged blasting, or ,well, you get the point. I knew (really, I did) a guy who had silicosis. Actually worked with him sandblasting transit buses a few days, and I worked normally in a different part of the garage. He did that for about 1 1/2 years, and it took him out. He wore a mask (when he wasn't smoking, and that was a contributer no doubt), but never shaved and thats what he did and wasn't too concerned about silicosis. After he had to give up cigs, and wear o2, and live a life that sucked for a couple years, he kinda give up. At 34.



Im definitely outside, I was thinking using glass wasnt as bad as the sand and I was more worried about the 30 year old paint that probably has lead in it. But I picked the N95 because that is what I use at the fire dept. for infectious patients. I figured the N95 was more than enough and that the cabinet contained most everything with the vacuum hooked up to it. Im still pretty green to all this and kinda learning as I go. I really appreciate the heads up.


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## heimannm (May 13, 2010)

I think those are covering the port that would allow the crankcase pulse through the fuel tank to operate the oil pump. I am pretty sure your 250 did not have the automatic oil pump, manual only.

I will send a second IPL for the Super 250 that shows the automatic pulse operated oil pump.

Mark


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## Brian13 (May 13, 2010)

heimannm said:


> I think those are covering the port that would allow the crankcase pulse through the fuel tank to operate the oil pump. I am pretty sure your 250 did not have the automatic oil pump, manual only.
> 
> I will send a second IPL for the Super 250 that shows the automatic pulse operated oil pump.
> 
> Mark



Ok Im on the same page. This is a Super 250 and it does have the pulse pump. Originally I had assumed that because it was in the fuel tank it was a fuel pulse pump. I had thought my dad had told me that it was manual only. It may have stopped working or I may have been mistaken. I think the carb went bad before I was born. So that was my confusion I just didnt know it had an auto oiler. Thanks again.


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## Brian13 (May 13, 2010)

Almost forgot a few questions. On the wrist pin in the piston there is one side that is solid and one side open, how do you remove it properly? There is know c-clips like what I am used to. When you are taking the pulley out of the starter do you just use a punch to push the pin from the piece that turns the flywheel? 
Thanks Brian


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## heimannm (May 14, 2010)

There are special tools and techniques required if you have to remove the wrist pin. The old McCullochs are not like the modern saws with clips to retain the bearings/wrist pin and the whole works is pressed together. You might want to consider looking for another piston and connecting rod assembly if the top end of yours in in trouble.

If it is in good enough condition to reused, make sure the blind end bearing goes towards the exhaust port.

For the starter, I normally just unscrew the "ratchet" from the drum, either hold the drum in a vise or with large channel lock pliers, or insert a locking pin through the slot in the drum and the spring hole in the base. I made a special tool from a broken 1/2" drive adapter, before that I would use a large screw driver with a square shaft to engage the ratchet and un screw it.

Mark


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## blsnelling (May 14, 2010)

Excellent progress, Brian You'll get this thing running yet!


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## Brian13 (May 14, 2010)

heimannm said:


> There are special tools and techniques required if you have to remove the wrist pin. The old McCullochs are not like the modern saws with clips to retain the bearings/wrist pin and the whole works is pressed together. You might want to consider looking for another piston and connecting rod assembly if the top end of yours in in trouble.
> 
> If it is in good enough condition to reused, make sure the blind end bearing goes towards the exhaust port.
> 
> ...


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## Brian13 (May 14, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Excellent progress, Brian You'll get this thing running yet!



Thank you...Not making any land speed records, but things are starting to move along. All these Mac vids. that have been floating around have got me excited to hear this thing run.


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## heimannm (May 14, 2010)

According to the IPL the rings set is 55123, I have several good used sets, and a couple of new sets as well.

Stay in touch.

Mark


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## Brian13 (May 14, 2010)

heimannm said:


> According to the IPL the rings set is 55123, I have several good used sets, and a couple of new sets as well.
> 
> Stay in touch.
> 
> Mark


I was going to try Fayettville equipment but if you have some just let me know what you want. I am going to try to rob the main bearings off a regular 250 parts saw I just got and and hone the cylinder and get the crank and piston back in soon. As long as that wrist pin is ok.


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## blsnelling (May 14, 2010)

The best solution for that piston would be to put it in a ultrasonic cleaner for an extended period of time, and the blow dry very well and lubricate. It's amazing how it'll get in there and clean things up. Send it to me with a return shipping label and I'll clean it for you, if you'd like.


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## heimannm (May 14, 2010)

The bearings and seals would be available at most any competent bearing supply, I can't remember exactly but I think the bearings are 6203's. Take the old parts in with you and they should be able to get new ones. The bearings may have plastic shields but they can be popped right out. Be sure to get good quality bearings with a C3 fit.

I paid $9 for a 6203 bearing and $3 to $5 for different seals at the local BDI (Bearing Distributors Inc, formerly Bearing Supply).

Mark


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## Brian13 (May 14, 2010)

I have a bearing distributor not to far from me. That bearing number sounds familiar, I think its a common size in bicycles as well. That sounds alot cheaper than what I was expecting. I was thinking 20-30$ a bearing and maybe 15$ a seal.


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## Brian13 (May 14, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> The best solution for that piston would be to put it in a ultrasonic cleaner for an extended period of time, and the blow dry very well and lubricate. It's amazing how it'll get in there and clean things up. Send it to me with a return shipping label and I'll clean it for you, if you'd like.



That sounds great pm me your address and I will send it out as soon as I can get the chance.


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## Brian13 (May 14, 2010)

Hear is some more pics of the reed.















The reed is dirty but dont see any corrosion. Carb box is a mess!!!
Im assuming the reed is bad but I dont know how it works so I dont know for sure. Hear is one last pic of the spot of concern with the piston wrist pin. I think this pic is a little more clear.


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## blsnelling (May 14, 2010)

That wrist pin bearing looks like it's rusted solid. Is that the case? That bearing may be shot.

I don't see a problem with your reeds. As long as they're flat and not cracked, and the seating surface is smooth where they'll seal, you should be good to go.


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## heimannm (May 14, 2010)

RE: Reeds & reed plate - they should clean up just fine, you might try a sheet of fine sand paper or emery cloth on a flat surface to polish them up a bit. Those reeds are phenolic, most of the other models used blued spring steel. I think the phenolic are supposed to be a bit more responsive.

RE: Bearing - McCullochs used a bearing with a solid cap on the exhaust port side since the exhaust port it directly in line with the wrist pin. That is just a little rust on the cover of the bearing, as long as the bearings move freely it should not be a problem. 

Brad, you should remember how that looks from your 1-52.

Mark


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## blsnelling (May 14, 2010)

heimannm said:


> Brad, you should remember how that looks from your 1-52.
> 
> Mark



I should, but I don't, lol. So Brian, go ahead and send it on if you think there's any hope for it. I would think a good ultrasonic cleaning would get in there and clean if anything would. If there are any other parts, such as the carb, that you would like cleaned, send them along as well. I highly recommend it on the carb. You can take a carb that you think is spotless, throw it in the cleaner, and all kind of crud will start seeping out of it. It's pretty cool!


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## Brian13 (May 14, 2010)

Things keep looking better and better!! The bearing on the wrist pin move free and from what I can see rust and corrosion free. So thats good news. And thats great to hear that the reed should be still be good. The more parts I can reuse the better. Im getting ready to head out and I will send the piston off your way, I havnt even touched the carb, but I will send it and you can look at it. Its in rough shape and Im not sure even salvageable, but take a look at it and see what you think. Its probably a paper weight. Everything is starting to look real good.


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## blsnelling (May 14, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> Things keep looking better and better!! The bearing on the wrist pin move free and from what I can see rust and corrosion free. So thats good news. And thats great to hear that the reed should be still be good. The more parts I can reuse the better. Im getting ready to head out and I will send the piston off your way, I havnt even touched the carb, but I will send it and you can look at it. Its in rough shape and Im not sure even salvageable, but take a look at it and see what you think. Its probably a paper weight. Everything is starting to look real good.



Hopefully we'll both be surprised with the carb. I throw a nasty filthy carb right in it with no precleaning at all. When I pull it out it looks like a brand new carb, no kidding. As long as yours isn't corroded away in the wrong places, you may get lucky. Doesn't hurt to try.


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## Brian13 (May 14, 2010)

Piston and carb is heading your way Brad. Got the first two parts primed and hopefully Sunday I will have some yellow parts. Time to go play with my boys now.


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## sefh3 (May 14, 2010)

What carb did it have on it? Tilly or Mac? If it's a Mac carb kits are pricey for them.


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## heimannm (May 14, 2010)

Joe Salva at Sugar Creek Supply has very reasonably prices repro kits for the McCulloch by Walbro carburetors.

Now the primers, they are expensive but I don't think the Super 250 style McCulloch/Walbro carburetors had the primer, they had a choke instead.

Mark


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## Brian13 (May 14, 2010)

It had Mac stamped on the intake side. I dont have very high hopes for it. And had planned for a Tiloston swap. So if it cleans up its bonus.


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## RandyMac (May 14, 2010)

One of the saving graces on the Super's Flatback, the choke. Primers, I'm down to three or four, time to start hunting again.
If you have the parts, A Tilly transplant takes about 20 minutes, longer if you don't.
The Supers were the last of their line, the best of all of the 87cc direct drives, the 660 was the last 87cc geardrive, they share the same motor. 
A yellow and black three saw plan, a 10-10 with a 24", Super250 with 30"-36" bar and a 660 with a 48", nothing couldn't be cut. However, you need to have atleast five chainsaws, a big inch direct and a little saw, with backups.


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## Brian13 (May 14, 2010)

RandyMac said:


> One of the saving graces on the Super's Flatback, the choke. Primers, I'm down to three or four, time to start hunting again.
> If you have the parts, A Tilly transplant takes about 20 minutes, longer if you don't.
> The Supers were the last of their line, the best of all of the 87cc direct drives, the 660 was the last 87cc geardrive, they share the same motor.
> A yellow and black three saw plan, a 10-10 with a 24", Super250 with 30"-36" bar and a 660 with a 48", nothing couldn't be cut. However, you need to have atleast five chainsaws, a big inch direct and a little saw, with backups.



What kind of parts do you need for the conversion??? And I dont use saws for a living, so due to space and money I have a two saw plan. 1. getting this Super 250 running, 2. one of the 100+ cc like the Super Pro 125. How many I will end up with getting to that point is yet to be seen:greenchainsaw:


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## ross_scott (May 14, 2010)

I am watching this thread with great interest Brian I really hope you can bring your dads saw back to life after all of those years sitting around, hope your dad has a big smile on his face when he gets to hear it run and make a few cuts with it once again.


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## Brian13 (May 14, 2010)

ross_scott said:


> I am watching this thread with great interest Brian I really hope you can bring your dads saw back to life after all of those years sitting around, hope your dad has a big smile on his face when he gets to hear it run and make a few cuts with it once again.



I dont know what will make him happier, being able to hear it run again or being able to see me use it. My dad has always enjoyed showing me how to do things and seeing me do them. Either way I would like to be able to hand it to him knowing that it will cut again. Thanks for vote of confidence!!! If it was not for this site and all the people here, it would still be rotting away. This definitely a great site full of some really good people.


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## ross_scott (May 14, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> I dont know what will make him happier, being able to hear it run again or being able to see me use it. My dad has always enjoyed showing me how to do things and seeing me do them. Either way I would like to be able to hand it to him knowing that it will cut again. Thanks for vote of confidence!!! If it was not for this site and all the people here, it would still be rotting away. This definitely a great site full of some really good people.



It is like a few years back I asked my brother what he did with our fathers old chainsaw and he had thrown it away because the carb diaphragms were shot I have not spoken to him since. Just glad you have taken the initiative to save the old girl from rotting away to nothing.


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## Brian13 (May 16, 2010)

Got the first two pieces painted. Dosnt look factory, but alot better than it did. Still got alot of blasting and painting to go.








The picture makes it look like more cream than yellow,but in person it looks a little closer to Mcculloch yellow.


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## ric5141 (May 16, 2010)

Which paint did you end up using?


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## Brian13 (May 16, 2010)

I ended up trying Krylon rust tough enamel in Sunburst yellow. It said it was for lawn equipment and other similar things. Looks decent just hope it lasts.


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## ric5141 (May 16, 2010)

I should know if the Valspar I did my 10-10a with instantly disintegrates by mid-week. I am hoping it cured long enough to hold up. It has been 2 weeks since I painted it.

Your project looks like it is coming along. Keep up the good work.


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## Brian13 (May 16, 2010)

Thanks I bought the Valspar but found the Krylon while at the auto parts store looking for something else.


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## 8433jeff (May 16, 2010)

If you are happy, then we shall be also. I've seen worse called factory restorations, so if stays on and it should, then you did it the right way. Your saw, your way, thats what I say.


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## blsnelling (May 17, 2010)

I got the carb and piston in the mail today. All I can say is WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## wigglesworth (May 17, 2010)

You gonna stick that one it the ultrasonic cleaner Brad?


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## blsnelling (May 17, 2010)

This is all the ultrasonic cleaner could do to it.


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## blsnelling (May 17, 2010)

So I hit the parts with a wire wheel.












I wire wheeled what I could on the carb body, but ended up sand blasting it. I bolted on the covers to keep as much sand as possible out of it. I then cleaned it in the ultrasonic cleaner and sprayed it all out with brake cleaner. I think it'll work like new. You will need a complete carb rebuilt kit, complete with welch plugs.












One of the bolts twisted off, but I was able to get it out later.


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## FATGUY (May 17, 2010)

such a pleasure to work on clean new equipment like that, isn't it?


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## TRI955 (May 17, 2010)

I sure wish I had a carb for your saw, I would donate it to your rebuild.


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## sefh3 (May 18, 2010)

It looks like your missing the primer on that carb. I would look for a new one or better yet try finding a HL-63 and replace it all. I think this one might work for you.


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## Saw Dr. (May 18, 2010)

sefh3 said:


> It looks like your missing the primer on that carb. I would look for a new one or better yet try finding a HL-63 and replace it all. I think this one might work for you.



Actually, the Super 250 carb is one of the rare flatbacks with a choke. The mount bost is there for the primer, but it is not needed on this carb.

I would have blasted it with baking soda, but if he's going to remove the welch plugs anyway, I don't see any harm is sandblasting. Did ayone tell him how expensive those flatback carb kits are?


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## belgian (May 18, 2010)

FATGUY said:


> such a pleasure to work on clean new equipment like that, isn't it?



You will appreciate the new stuff so much better if you have done a few rebuilts of old saws...that's for sure.

To be honoust, looking at all the pics and the condition of this particular saw, I would have tossed it without hesitation. I have several parts saws that look much better than this one....

But if the OP can get it to run, more kudo's to him, I'd say.


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## sefh3 (May 18, 2010)

Saw Dr. said:


> Actually, the Super 250 carb is one of the rare flatbacks with a choke. The mount bost is there for the primer, but it is not needed on this carb.
> 
> I would have blasted it with baking soda, but if he's going to remove the welch plugs anyway, I don't see any harm is sandblasting. Did ayone tell him how expensive those flatback carb kits are?



See we learn something new everyday. I didn't know the supers came with a choke I thought they all had primers. Where is a good resource to buy those kits from? Any site sponsors have them?


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## Brian13 (May 18, 2010)

WOW!!!! I cant believe it came that clean. I NEED an ultrasonic cleaner!!!! Mark told me about Sugar Creek that has repro carb kits but I dont think it has the plugs. Thank you Brad!!!!! Now I need to look into full rebuild kits. I know they are hard to come by, but if I can find one what kind of expensive are we talking about? Thanks again Brad that looks amazing. :jawdrop:
Oh and I saw that carb on ebay and wonderd if it would work. Never said witch one it was just that it was an HL.


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## Mastermind (May 18, 2010)

How about a before and after? Good on ya Brad, rep sent.


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## blsnelling (May 18, 2010)

sefh3 said:


> I would look for a new one or better yet try finding a HL-63 and replace it all.



After all that work?


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## Mastermind (May 18, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> After all that work?


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## Brian13 (May 18, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> After all that work?



Dont worry, if I can find a kit and not have to take out a second mortgage, it will be used again. That looks awsome!!!


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## blsnelling (May 18, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> Dont worry, if I can find a kit and not have to take out a second mortgage, it will be used again. That looks awsome!!!



You're welcome. I'll have it back in the mail to you today.


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## Mastermind (May 18, 2010)

I picked up a ultrasonic cleaner like the one you use from a company called Tadd on the bay for 13.00, the lid was cracked. What are you using for cleaning solution in yours Brad?


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## blsnelling (May 18, 2010)

mastermind7864 said:


> I picked up a ultrasonic cleaner like the one you use from a company called Tadd on the bay for 13.00, the lid was cracked. What are you using for cleaning solution in yours Brad?



Water + Simple Green.


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## blsnelling (May 18, 2010)

I know this is going to sound like a crazy question. Is the throttle plate spring loaded open, rather than closed on these carb? I don't see a way to assemble it so that it spring loads closed.


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## Brian13 (May 18, 2010)

I dont know it this helps but this was right after I took it out.




I am not sure if that is the one you are talking about but I think the other one was closed dont remember for sure though.


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## blsnelling (May 18, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> I dont know it this helps but this was right after I took it out. I am not sure if that is the one you are talking about but I think the other one was closed dont remember for sure though.



That one's the choke plate. I have to unwind, rather than unwind the spring to make it stay closed, rather than open.


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## TRI955 (May 18, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> I have to unwind, rather than unwind the spring to make it stay closed, rather than open.



What??!?!!?


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## blsnelling (May 18, 2010)

We just need someone with a flatback carb to tell/show us how the spring and throttle plate go on this carb and if it's held open or closed by the spring.


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## sefh3 (May 18, 2010)

Brad does this help?

This is Heimann's set by step for this carb.


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## Brian13 (May 18, 2010)

If I was at home I would send you the IPL But I wont get out of work till 7:30 tomarow morning.


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## blsnelling (May 18, 2010)

sefh3 said:


> Brad does this help?
> 
> This is Heimann's set by step for this carb.



That's EXACTLY what I needed. The spring does hold it open and is some sort of governor. So I had it right to begin with


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## blsnelling (May 18, 2010)

Brian, it's boxed back up and heading home in todays mail. I included the old welch plugs, but they do have holes in them. The piston/rod is good to go.


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## Brian13 (May 18, 2010)

Thank you!!!! the pics look great!!!


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## Brian13 (May 18, 2010)

Is this what I am looking for as far as the welch plug?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-McCULLO...tem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5ad2a37900


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## thomas72 (May 18, 2010)

This is a nice little build.


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## blsnelling (May 18, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> Is this what I am looking for as far as the welch plug?
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-McCULLO...tem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5ad2a37900



I did not remove the check valve. I could see the little ball in there and it looked ok. That is one of the welch plugs though, the larger of the two. It goes over top the check valve.


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## Urbicide (May 18, 2010)

You might give Bob Johnson a call. He's in NY.

(607) 638-9297


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## Brian13 (May 19, 2010)

Cut some gaskets tonight, never done this before and dont know if Im gonna make a habit of this. Florida is hot and full of mosquitos and I have no patience, with that being said this is what I came up with. I believe this is all the gaskets minus the oil reservoir. I forgot about that one. I think they should work, dont see any reason why not.


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## Urbicide (May 20, 2010)

Brian, all of those gaskets are available. You might have to hunt around to gather them all if you wanted to use the OEM type, but they are out there. The price will vary wildly also. Some sellers act like they have the last one on earth & others are just trying to get rid of something they know or care little about. That being said, looks like you did a pretty decent job of cutting your own. I have thought about using cork for gasket material since it used to be widely used & wonder if there was much difference between modern cork material & that used years ago. I have seen many vintage cork gaskets that had a thing layer of a fabric-reinforced material glued to one side of the cork.
Wonder if a very thin layer of something like RTV evenly skimmed over the cork surface & allowed to cure before assembling would help protect the cork from shrinking & breaking down over time?


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## blsnelling (May 20, 2010)

I was concerned when I saw the cork gasket material as well. Most of the gaskets I see on chainsaws are made of paper gasket material. Wouldn't cork be prone to crushing and squeezing out? I would also think that the cork material is much thicker than the original paper gasktets. This difference can be critical in some areas.


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## heimannm (May 20, 2010)

You can get cork, rubbberized paper, and paper in several different thicknesses as required, just check around at auto parts stores. I like to use thick material for the tank gaskets as they tend to leak, others you need to try and match the origina if possible. The only one that is really critical for thickness is the side cover on the crank case, none of the others will affect the way the saw goes together.

Mark


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## Brian13 (May 20, 2010)

I have found some of the gaskets, I just trying to save a little money here so I could spend it elswhere. I tried to match up the thickness as much a possible, and used paper gasket on the one that goes in be tween the cylinder base and fuel tank, the oil tank gasket and the oil pulse pump gasket. The carb gasket, fuel tank gasket, and cylinder base gasket I used the cork. I have plenty of the paper left and can recut those in paper if you think the cork wont work. 

Heimannm "The only one that is really critical for thickness is the side cover on the crank case, none of the others will affect the way the saw goes together."

Is that the cylinder base gasket you are talking about?


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## Urbicide (May 20, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> I have found some of the gaskets, I just trying to save a little money here so I could spend it elswhere. I tried to match up the thickness as much a possible, and used paper gasket on the one that goes in be tween the cylinder base and fuel tank, the oil tank gasket and the oil pulse pump gasket. The carb gasket, fuel tank gasket, and cylinder base gasket I used the cork. I have plenty of the paper left and can recut those in paper if you think the cork wont work.
> 
> Heimannm "The only one that is really critical for thickness is the side cover on the crank case, none of the others will affect the way the saw goes together."
> 
> Is that the cylinder base gasket you are talking about?



Mark is referring to the gasket that goes on the back side of the crank case cover where it bolts up to the side of the crank case. That's the back part of the assembly which contains the fly wheel & ignition system. The fan housing with the recoil bolts to this piece also. It's kind of like the backing plate on a car with drum brakes to which the brake shoes would be attached.


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## blsnelling (May 20, 2010)

I believe it's the gasket that sets the distance between crank bearings.


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## Brian13 (May 20, 2010)

Sorry for being a little slow here, but I think I know what we are talking about. It goes in between this and the cylinder? If that is it, there was not one when I removed it. Just an O-ring. Really dont remember for sure though it was so dirty with so much crud might have been there and it just blended in with all the other crap in my memory.


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## blsnelling (May 20, 2010)

Mark will be along to correct us Mac newbies


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## Mastermind (May 20, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> Sorry for being a little slow here, but I think I know what we are talking about. It goes in between this and the cylinder? If that is it, there was not one when I removed it. Just an O-ring. Really dont remember for sure though it was so dirty with so much crud might have been there and it just blended in with all the other crap in my memory.



That would be the only one that could affect bearing clearance, as Brad said.


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## Brian13 (May 20, 2010)

I have seen a gasket like that on ebay, but the reason I was so confused is I really dont remember one being there when I took it apart. And there is nothing on the ipl that I can see. So either Im still looking in the wrong area, or I have a gasket to find with no p/n to look for.


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## Urbicide (May 20, 2010)

O-ring:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-McCULLO...tem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5ad98f383d

paper gasket:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-McCULLO...tem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5ad237a3dc


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## Brian13 (May 20, 2010)

Urbicide said:


> O-ring:
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-McCULLO...tem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5ad98f383d
> 
> ...



Thanks gasket is on the way.......
Today was like Christmas, got the proper gun for the blasting cabinet, got a carb rebuild kit for my 044, and got the piston and carb back from Brad!!! Piston looks great almost new, and the carb looks better than the pics. Thank you Brad!!!
As for now I have too problems, 1 I am having a hard time finding someone who can hone the cylinder. There is no scoring on it just has a light dusting of rust. I have 400, 600, and 1000 grit sandpaper. Would that work instead of honing?? And second the cylinder base has a crack in it probebly from removing it. There is one on a 250 parts saw in perfect shape, but the hole that I think operates the pulse oil pump is a little smaller. I could drill that out assuming I dont break it removing it. Or I could track down another. 
Any suggestions? Other than that I have a small handful of parts to track down and a bunch of cleaning to do and should be ready to reassemble.


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## RandyMac (May 20, 2010)

Let's see that crack, it might be ok. A standard 250 cylinder won't work, different porting, and size. Go very lightly with the sandpaper, I think wet is better.


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## Brian13 (May 20, 2010)

Here is some pics of the crack.


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## RandyMac (May 20, 2010)

Clean it, JB weld it, should be fine. That is the stuffer plate, I don't think it is under much stress.


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## Brian13 (May 20, 2010)

I will try that, and I will post a pic of it.


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## blsnelling (May 20, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> I am having a hard time finding someone who can hone the cylinder. There is no scoring on it just has a light dusting of rust.



You should have thought of that last week when you sent me the carb and piston, lol. Send that thing over. I've got the finer grit ball hones from Baileys. They'll make that cylinder look like new. Nothing else can do the job these things do. They do a beautiful job.


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## Brian13 (May 20, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> You should have thought of that last week when you sent me the carb and piston, lol. Send that thing over. I've got the finer grit ball hones from Baileys. They'll make that cylinder look like new. Nothing else can do the job these things do. They do a beautiful job.



I didnt think I was asking for for them to split an atom. I thought It would be an easy deal. None of the local chainsaw dealers hone, and all the machine shops I have talked to dont have hones that small. Once again I thank you I will try to get to the post office Saturday or Tuesday.


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## heimannm (May 20, 2010)

Brian,

Remind me next week about the base (stuffer) for that saw, I am sure I have several good ones in the attic if you can stand the wait.

And regarding the gasket behind the crank case cover, all of the saws with the full crank case cover (extends to the top of the cylinder) I have had apart use a relatively thin gasket there, and there are different thicknesses floating about for someone that was really particular about the end play on the crank shaft.

The large saws (often referred to as Super Series) like the 700, 800, and SP series with a sort of "half crankcase cover" that does not cover the cylinder use an O-ring. Perhaps some mad McCulloch mechanic in the past figured if it was good enough for the bigger saws it should be good enough for an 87cc unit. I can't say from long distance if it would offer the same kind of seal or not.

And having said that I now look at the Super 250 IPL, Item 23, Figure 2 and see it is indeed an O-ring, PN 104523. I have the generic O-ring part number for it at home and can confirm that any reasonably stocked bearing/seal supplier would have the O-ring you need as well. 

See, I haven't been in to any of my Super 250's yet and I must have almost 5 if I go through all the parts.

Mark


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## Urbicide (May 20, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> I didnt think I was asking for for them to split an atom. I thought It would be an easy deal. None of the local chainsaw dealers hone, and all the machine shops I have talked to dont have hones that small. Once again I thank you I will try to get to the post office Saturday or Tuesday.


Here you go:


http://tewarehouse.com/19205


Want the deluxe kit?


http://tewarehouse.com/19211


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## Brian13 (May 21, 2010)

heimannm said:


> Brian,
> 
> Remind me next week about the base (stuffer) for that saw, I am sure I have several good ones in the attic if you can stand the wait.
> 
> ...



That was why I didnt know what you were talking about, this is the first Mac I have worked on. So everything is new to me and the this saw is the only thing I have to go by as far as how they come apart and the various parts in it. 



Urbicide said:


> Here you go:
> 
> 
> http://tewarehouse.com/19205
> ...



If I am going to make saw rebuilding a habbit, witch I think its aready become an addiction I am going to have to invest in one of those. Still building my tool colection, just been hard by tools instead of chainsaw stuff.


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## Brian13 (May 22, 2010)

Gave my poor air compressor a work out today. I dont think it likes bead blasting. But I am half way to having everything cleaned up. Found a hole in the flywheel cover and patched it. Looks rough and after sanding might need another coat of JB weld.













Wish I could of go more cleaned up but my air compressor was getting so hot and making so much condensation that water was getting through the water separator. Tomorrow I will prime those parts so I can make them yellow Tuesday.


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## heimannm (May 22, 2010)

Keep up the good work Brian and keep those photo records coming.

Mark


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## blsnelling (May 24, 2010)

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the cylinder is not salvageable. The cylinder was far more rusted than thought. It's acutally eaten the cylinder wall away in a significant portion of the cylinder about the exhaust port. It will never make any compression. These pictures were taken after LOTS of honing, more than I've ever done to a cylinder before.


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## hoss (May 24, 2010)

Man, thats a shame. I would donate a cylinder to the cause if I had one for your saw. Unless the topend from a super 44a will work then i'm out of ideas. Good luck and for goodness sake don't quit now.


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## Brian13 (May 24, 2010)

Well that is a bummer, but par for my day. I had to leave work early and spent all day at the hospital with my wife. But I am to far into this to quit. So Ill be looking for a cylinder. On the bright side I was told I can expect to spend 250 or more and Im not even half way there. Thanks for trying Brad, I thought is was in better shape than that. But as bad of shape as it was in had to expect some sort of hang up. And thank you Hoss for the thought, I wish you had one too LOL. Well this isnt the end of the project, it will run again even it if takes a real long time and I could buy two saws it will run again. It has become my obsession.


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## blsnelling (May 24, 2010)

That's the attitude Don't let it beat you now. It *will *run again


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## Brian13 (May 24, 2010)

You can call it yellow fever, lack of sanity, or just wanting to see why my dad was always telling me it was such a great saw. But Im determined and stubborn!!!


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## RandyMac (May 24, 2010)

I thought I might have one, but it was just a 250, it looks ok, I sorta remember where it came from.


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## Brian13 (May 24, 2010)

I wish a 250 would work. I have one for parts on my bench.


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## RandyMac (May 24, 2010)

A 250 will fit, perfectly. You may or may not miss the extra revs and HP of the Super.


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## blsnelling (May 25, 2010)

RandyMac said:


> A 250 will fit, perfectly. You may or may not miss the extra revs and HP of the Super.



At least you know you can make it run.


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## Brian13 (May 25, 2010)

Well I have never seen one of these in action. So honestly I wouldnt know the difference. This one was out of commission before I was born. If I dont have any luck finding a cylinder I will build it with that. I would like to keep it Super, but now I have a back up plan.


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## heimannm (May 25, 2010)

Just like over on the McCulloch thread, if JJ can't come up with one let me know, I think there were a couple in the "big box". I am not sure what condition they are in.

Mark


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## Brian13 (May 25, 2010)

heimannm said:


> Just like over on the McCulloch thread, if JJ can't come up with one let me know, I think there were a couple in the "big box". I am not sure what condition they are in.
> 
> Mark



Thank you Mark!! Temporary detour, just means I can take my time cleaning the rest and hopefully have everything ready to assemble.


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## Brian13 (May 25, 2010)

Got to do some more painting while the kids were napping.


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## Brian13 (May 25, 2010)

I kinda rushed my repair job but it looks better than it did. Its on the bottom of the saw and wont be able to see it anyway.


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## SkippyKtm (May 25, 2010)

The paint looks great -she's sure gonna look nice, when its back together.


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## Brian13 (May 25, 2010)

Thanks, Im a little over half way done with the bead blasting and painting. Just have the oil tank, fuel tank cover, air box cover and a couple other misc items. What does everybody think about bead blasting the bow bar? That wouldnt hurt it would it?


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## blsnelling (May 25, 2010)

Do you want me to go ahead and send the cylinder back? Or do you just want the stamps back in an envelope?


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## Brian13 (May 25, 2010)

Yeah you can send it back and I will add it to my scrap pile. Help fund the project along.


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## Brian13 (May 27, 2010)

I am going to try to and call Bob Johnson tomarow. If he dosnt have the carb kit, is this the right one?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230468449308&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT


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## thomas72 (May 27, 2010)

You might want to see if you can get a .020 or .030 piston for it. Then you could bore the cylinder.


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## Saw Dr. (May 27, 2010)

Hey guys, don't get too discouraged yet. That is an iron bore. The piston spec sheet shows an .010, .020, and .030 overbore for that saw. You need a 53942A (.010) 53943A (.020) or 53944A (.030) piston, and someone who can bore that jug. New pistons are always nicer anyway, and he'll end up with a tad more displacement.


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## hoss (May 27, 2010)

Saw Dr. said:


> Hey guys, don't get too discouraged yet. That is an iron bore. The piston spec sheet shows an .010, .020, and .030 overbore for that saw. You need a 53942A (.010) 53943A (.020) or 53944A (.030) piston, and someone who can bore that jug. New pistons are always nicer anyway, and he'll end up with a tad more displacement.



:agree2:Yup, yup, this is a good idea. I would have suggested it myself if I had remembered about the iron cylinder liners. Great suggestion.


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## blsnelling (May 27, 2010)

Brian, your cylinder is on it's way home. That would be sweet if you could find an oversized piston for it.


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## Brian13 (May 28, 2010)

I was wondering about that. Brad, do you think .030 would be deep enough to clear the bad spots? Im sure there are pistons out there, Ill start looking. And I presume what I will find will be without the connecting rod. So if I go this route is the tool required to remove the wrist pin something I can make?


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## blsnelling (May 28, 2010)

I think .030 would be more than enough.


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## Brian13 (May 28, 2010)

Has anyone tried to take the plastic knob on the air box cover that screws on the carb off? I need to take it off so I can finish cleaning it and paint it. And is there a special way to disconnect the oil pump button from the rod? The only way the only way I can see is careful brute force? And does anybody know where is going to be a good place to look for the oversize piston? Bob Johnson?
Thanks


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## leeha (May 28, 2010)

You can try Bryce Stott for an oversize
piston as well as Bob Johnson. Discount
marine may have one as well. If you need
contact info let me know.
I also think thats your best bet is to bore it.
Then you really have a Super 250.


Lee


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## Brian13 (May 28, 2010)

leeha said:


> You can try Bryce Stott for an oversize
> piston as well as Bob Johnson. Discount
> marine may have one as well. If you need
> contact info let me know.
> ...


As soon as I find a machine shop that will bore it out I try those places. I have Bob Johnsons number, but the other two I dont. Especially the Discount Marine. There are Discount Marine type places all over the place here in Florida.

Got the oil pump button apart from the rod, it was careful brute force. Still working on the air box cover knob. Not sure if it is supposed to come off, but it would make painting easier if it did.


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## heimannm (May 28, 2010)

I think you will find the "nut" in that cover is upset after installation to swell it out and make it captive. You should be able to force it out (carefully) but you may lose the captive feature when you push it back in.

I was looking through some of the stuff in the attic over the garage and saw what appeared to be a Super 250 air box mounted on an older saw without the tapped boss for the extra hole you mentioned. In this case there was no fastener in the "extra" hole either, so I think would be O.K. to leave it at it is, or you may want to go ahead and add the extra hole in the air box you have.

Have a look at the numbers stamped on the bottom of the crank case and let me know what you find, I think the Super 250's used a code rather than S250 like would have been used on other models.

Thanks

Mark


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## Brian13 (May 29, 2010)

Have a look at the numbers stamped on the bottom of the crank case and let me know what you find, I think the Super 250's used a code rather than S250 like would have been used on other models.

Thanks

Mark[/QUOTE]

I looked at the bottom of the crank case and all I could see was a P. Didnt see any numbers. I also tried cleaning up my stuffer plate and there was some thin spots that the bead blaster blew right through. So I think I will need another.

Got the cylinder back today, thanks again Brad!! Getting dangerously close to assembly. Not too many parts left to order. Got to order slow so the wife dosnt freak out.


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## heimannm (May 29, 2010)

I will get up in the attic on Monday morning and see what I can find.

Let me know if you find anything else and I can try to locate what you need. Sorry, I don't have a .030 over piston, I think I do have a set of +.030 rings.

Mark


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## Brian13 (May 29, 2010)

heimannm said:


> I will get up in the attic on Monday morning and see what I can find.
> 
> Let me know if you find anything else and I can try to locate what you need. Sorry, I don't have a .030 over piston, I think I do have a set of +.030 rings.
> 
> Mark



Thanks! All I really have left is the piston, carb kit and 2 gaskets I think. I have bearings and seals waiting. The only other things that might need replacing is the wire that goes from the points to the coil(I think its called the primary) and the pull start handle. I think they are right on the line of usable or not.
Thanks again


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## Urbicide (May 30, 2010)

You can run the .030 over-sized rings on a .020 over-sized piston if you have to. opcorn:


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## Mastermind (May 30, 2010)

Urbicide said:


> You can run the .030 over-sized rings on a .020 over-sized piston if you have to. opcorn:



By grinding to the correct end gap.


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## andrethegiant70 (May 30, 2010)

> ...... Got to order slow so the wife dosnt freak out.


That IS an art form isn't it?!


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## Brian13 (May 30, 2010)

mastermind7864 said:


> By grinding to the correct end gap.





Urbicide said:


> You can run the .030 over-sized rings on a .020 over-sized piston if you have to. opcorn:


Thanks for the info, definetly found one piston for 70, and maybe one on on ebay. The p/n looks right but asked the seller to confirm its .030 over. That one was 55 bucks.


andrethegiant70 said:


> That IS an art form isn't it?!



A tricky art form at that. Sometimes I think my wife knows im spending money before I do.


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## Jacob J. (May 31, 2010)

Well I dug through my pile. I have three standard 250 engines and a 380 carcass that was fitted with a Mc49 kart engine at one time. No Super 250s. 

Is the Super 250 block the same bore but a longer stroke? I wonder if a Super 250 could be made with a standard block and the correct crank? Might have to have a standard piston turned down a bit.


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## belgian (May 31, 2010)

here's some general info about reboring Mac's.

hope you can read it.


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## Brian13 (May 31, 2010)

Jacob J. said:


> Well I dug through my pile. I have three standard 250 engines and a 380 carcass that was fitted with a Mc49 kart engine at one time. No Super 250s.
> 
> Is the Super 250 block the same bore but a longer stroke? I wonder if a Super 250 could be made with a standard block and the correct crank? Might have to have a standard piston turned down a bit.



Thanks for looking JJ. The 250 and Super 250 both have the same bore, but the S250 has 1.5 stroke instead of the 1.3ish on the 250. I have been told a 250 case will work. I am going to try the oversize piston first if that dosnt work out for any reason I will end up using a 250 case. Thanks again for looking for me.


belgian said:


> here's some general info about reboring Mac's.
> 
> hope you can read it.


Thanks for the imfo, it was readable and I am going to try to print it up. Im still new to small engines so some of it is greek to me but I understand the gist of it. I dont have a way to measure taper or out of round but I am hoping if I can find a machine shop to bore it out they will be able to take care of that for me. Thank again, and everybody have a safe Memorial Day


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## heimannm (May 31, 2010)

To measure the bore and check taper and out of round I use a set of snap gauges and micrometer(s). The snap gauge let's you reach down in the bore and it is a relatively easy step then to transfer the measurement from the snap gauge to the micrometer. Measure perpendicular and parallel to the piston pin at the top and bottom to check taper and out of round.

I went through the stuff in the attic and found three nice stuffer plates (crank case bottom covers) but none with the hole for the crankcase pressure pulse to operate the automatic oil pump.

I will climb back up in the attic later on when it cools down a bit to see if I can find the stuffer you need, as well as suitable cylinder.

You will have to resend you address by PM as I don't think I kept a copy before.

Mark


----------



## Brian13 (May 31, 2010)

Thanks for looking for me, need to get a set of those snap gauges amongst other tools. Almost have everything cleaned and painted. Should have some more pics soon.

I was looking at the sprocket and for the most part looks to be in good shape except for one decent size rust spot. Flaky rust. Is that something I would be better off replacing. I was going to bead blast it but the bearings didnt just pop out so I grabbed something else instead.


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## heimannm (May 31, 2010)

Well I went digging and could not come up with the stuffer/crank case cover or the cylinder, can't believe I couldn't find either with all the stuff up there.

I did find a NIB/NOS piston with rings and wrist pin bearings PN 53499A which should be the right .030" over piston if you can get your current cylinder bored oversize. You will have to study up on the procedure for pulling the wrist pin as these old McCullochs are not like modern saws with circlips to hold the wrist pin in place. On the old Mac's the pin is pressed into the bearings (bearings are in the piston, not the top end of the rod) and if you press it too far you have to pull everything apart and start over with new bearings according to the book.

I will continue to search through the other saws on hand to see if any have the pulse operated chain oiler, which would mean they have the right stuffer/crank case bottom cover. I am not sure I will have a chance to tear any saws apart this week as I am supposed to be getting ready to take off on Sunday for two weeks out west.

If the clutch drum and sprocket look to be good other than a bit of rust, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Drums, both new and used, spur or spline type are readily available on e-bay, I have a few spare 7T .404 both new and used if you can't come up with something else. How about a photo to let us help you decide?

Mark


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## Brian13 (May 31, 2010)

Hear is some pics of the drum and clutch.








Hear is the first piece I have put part of the way together. Just put the sparkplug cover and stop switch back together, still waiting on the spring for the starter.


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## Saw Dr. (May 31, 2010)

Bead blast the clutch drum and run it.


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## Brian13 (May 31, 2010)

Hear is the cylinder Mark, if there is any part in particular you need a better pic of let me know.















This is the only marking I could find, and on the side of that circle there is a P as well.


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## Brian13 (May 31, 2010)

Saw Dr. said:


> Bead blast the clutch drum and run it.



Sounds good, I didnt really try to hard when I had it out I just moved on to the next piece. Should the bearing just come out like on the new saws or is it pressed. If its not supposed to be pressed then Im gonna have to soak it in some oil to loosen it up.


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## Urbicide (Jun 1, 2010)

The bearing is pressed in.


----------



## Brian13 (Jun 1, 2010)

Urbicide said:


> The bearing is pressed in.



Thanks I will try some gentle persuasion. Should have a socket that will work.


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## Mr. Bow Saw (Jun 1, 2010)

I have a Super 250 parts saw you can have just cover shipping cost.
I don't know how the cylinder and piston are but I will check.


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## Brian13 (Jun 1, 2010)

Mr. Bow Saw said:


> I have a Super 250 parts saw you can have just cover shipping cost.
> I don't know how the cylinder and piston are but I will check.



That would be great. pm sent.


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## Jacob J. (Jun 1, 2010)

Usually when you get stuff from Mr. Bow Saw, it's better than he says it is...


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## Mr. Bow Saw (Jun 1, 2010)

When I turn it by hand it don't feel like it has any compression.
There is a lot of carbon built up in the exhaust port.
The piston does not look like its all scored up from what I can see.
The rings may be stuck.


----------



## belgian (Jun 1, 2010)

heimannm said:


> I went through the stuff in the attic and found three nice stuffer plates (crank case bottom covers) but none with the hole for the crankcase pressure pulse to operate the automatic oil pump.
> 
> 
> Mark



Mark, you can always drill the hole in that stuffer plate that is needed. I did this on a 250 before.


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## Brian13 (Jun 1, 2010)

Mr. Bow Saw said:


> When I turn it by hand it don't feel like it has any compression.
> There is a lot of carbon built up in the exhaust port.
> The piston does not look like its all scored up from what I can see.
> The rings may be stuck.



Looks brand new compared to what I started with. I can definitely use that.


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## heimannm (Jun 1, 2010)

O.K. Brian looks like you will be set now, you should get the stuffer you need in that package as well. Sorry I couldn't come up with the parts you needed.

I guess Roland has set us straight on drilling a hole if needed...however to check the pump operation you need to simulate the crankcase pressure changing from positive to negative...and rapidly at that. The diaphragm moves back and forth with the changing pressure to operate the automatic oiler.

Mark


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## Brian13 (Jun 1, 2010)

heimannm said:


> O.K. Brian looks like you will be set now, you should get the stuffer you need in that package as well. Sorry I couldn't come up with the parts you needed.
> 
> I guess Roland has set us straight on drilling a hole if needed...however to check the pump operation you need to simulate the crankcase pressure changing from positive to negative...and rapidly at that. The diaphragm moves back and forth with the changing pressure to operate the automatic oiler.
> 
> Mark



Thanks for all your help in finding parts, you have been very helpful. When I assembled the oiler the diaphragm felt like it should do its job, I put some bar oil in it when I assembled it and it felt like it might be working, guess I wont know for sure until I fire it up.

Finally found a machine shop that will bore it out. It will be about 85 bucks. So I still have that as a last resort. I am going to try and get some snap gauges to mesure bore taper and out of round. All and all things are looking good.


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## Brian13 (Jun 3, 2010)

Got ahold of Bob Johnson, and he had everything I needed. Full carb rebuild kit, and the other misc gaskets. So in a week or so I should be ready to start assembling.


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## blsnelling (Jun 3, 2010)

What about the piston/cylinder situation?


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## Brian13 (Jun 3, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> What about the piston/cylinder situation?



I have a parts saw on the way, and will hopefully be able to use that cylinder. Worst case Mark has the .030 over piston, and I will have to get the best one bored out. That will not be cheap so Im saving that for last option.


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## blsnelling (Jun 3, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> I have a parts saw on the way, and will hopefully be able to use that cylinder. Worst case Mark has the .030 over piston, and I will have to get the best one bored out. That will not be cheap so Im saving that for last option.



I remember the parts saw now. So you're set either way. Very cool


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## sefh3 (Jun 3, 2010)

With all those parts saws coming to you, you should be able make a runner out of those to go with you 250 Super.


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## Brian13 (Jun 3, 2010)

sefh3 said:


> With all those parts saws coming to you, you should be able make a runner out of those to go with you 250 Super.



The 250 I got from you was so clean I tried to use as little as possible. I am hoping to have s Super 250 and a 250 running by the time this is all said and done. Then all I will need is a Sp 125 or S797, a 10-10 and a gear drive of some sort and I will be content. That is until I have all those.


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## Brian13 (Jun 4, 2010)

heimannm said:


> To measure the bore and check taper and out of round I use a set of snap gauges and micrometer(s). The snap gauge let's you reach down in the bore and it is a relatively easy step then to transfer the measurement from the snap gauge to the micrometer. Measure perpendicular and parallel to the piston pin at the top and bottom to check taper and out of round.
> 
> I went through the stuff in the attic and found three nice stuffer plates (crank case bottom covers) but none with the hole for the crankcase pressure pulse to operate the automatic oil pump.
> 
> ...



If you get a chance would you be able to post a pic of the snap gage? I think I am looking at the right tool but I want to make sure before I buy anything.


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## Mastermind (Jun 4, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> If you get a chance would you be able to post a pic of the snap gage? I think I am looking at the right tool but I want to make sure before I buy anything.



If you intend to have it bored anyway you really won't need to check taper and out of round conditions. That will all be corrected when your cylinder is bored.


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## Brian13 (Jun 4, 2010)

mastermind7864 said:


> If you intend to have it bored anyway you really won't need to check taper and out of round conditions. That will all be corrected when your cylinder is bored.



I am going to try to use another cylinder if possible. It will cost 85 to bore it plus the piston. So I am saving that for last resort. I just want to measure bore and taper on the one coming on the parts saw. Besides who has ever turned down an excuse to get a new tool.


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## Mastermind (Jun 4, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> I am going to try to use another cylinder if possible. It will cost 85 to bore it plus the piston. So I am saving that for last resort. I just want to measure bore and taper on the one coming on the parts saw. Besides who has ever turned down an excuse to get a new tool.



I understand completely.


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## Saw Dr. (Jun 5, 2010)

Jacob J. said:


> Usually when you get stuff from Mr. Bow Saw, it's better than he says it is...



I can second that.

Acres shows some of the Super 250's to be 80cc. I was under the impression that these were the yellow top cover ones (which are not as common.) Be sure and check the bore before you start trying to combine parts.


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## Brian13 (Jun 5, 2010)

Saw Dr. said:


> I can second that.
> 
> Acres shows some of the Super 250's to be 80cc. I was under the impression that these were the yellow top cover ones (which are not as common.) Be sure and check the bore before you start trying to combine parts.



Thanks for the heads up. The one I have is 87 according to Acres, going off of the cerial number. Worst case I will have to bore out the cylinder. If I can get away with it I dont want to downsize. I want to hand my dad the same saw if not with alittle more power.


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## Brian13 (Jun 6, 2010)

Got the last piece painted. I ran out of the paint I was using, and when I went to the auto parts store to get more they were out. Fortunately I has bought another brand of paint in the same color. They seem to match up ok, there is just a slight difference in texture. I dont think the photos show the color all that accurately but I also have a pic side by side to see. I am getting antsy in anticipation of getting this assembled and trying to start it.:greenchainsaw:


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## cpr (Jun 6, 2010)

You should be proud, I'm sure your dad will be, too. Really, really good of you to set to on this project to please him. I'm excited for you, can't wait to see this thing go!


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## RandyMac (Jun 6, 2010)

Brian, your fortitude is commendable.


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## Brian13 (Jun 6, 2010)

Thank you, the anticipation is killing me. I already have a friend with some trees he needs cut up so I can test this and my other saw. Knowing now what I know I dont think I will ever take on another project this far gone. Unless its 100+ cc's LOL.


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## RandyMac (Jun 6, 2010)

Or 123cc.


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## Rounder (Jun 6, 2010)

RandyMac said:


> Or 123cc.



Lol, yep. Thanks again for taking the time to post all of this Brian, I will definitely use the wealth of info that has been posted in this thread in the future- GREAT job man - Sam


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## Brian13 (Jun 6, 2010)

RandyMac said:


> Or 123cc.



Thats my goal but I got to start somewhere. And to start I will work with anything in the 100+cc club.


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## Brian13 (Jun 6, 2010)

mtsamloggit said:


> Lol, yep. Thanks again for taking the time to post all of this Brian, I will definitely use the wealth of info that has been posted in this thread in the future- GREAT job man - Sam



Thank you, without the help I have got from posting this I definitely wouldnt be this far if even started.


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## heimannm (Jun 6, 2010)

A little late but here is a photo of my snap gauges, as you can see I am missing the 1-2" gauge from my set.

Mark


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## Brian13 (Jun 6, 2010)

heimannm said:


> A little late but here is a photo of my snap gauges, as you can see I am missing the 1-2" gauge from my set.
> 
> Mark



Thank you, that is what I thought you were talking about. But when I did a search on ebay snap gauge brought up something that looked more like a caliper. Im trying to find a set for cheap weather I bore that cylinder out or not. I need that and a bearing separator and I should have all the tools I need to finish this up.


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## Jacob J. (Jun 6, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> Thank you, that is what I thought you were talking about. But when I did a search on ebay snap gauge brought up something that looked more like a caliper. Im trying to find a set for cheap weather I bore that cylinder out or not. I need that and a bearing separator and I should have all the tools I need to finish this up.



You can get this set on Amazon for $20- Telescoping bore gauge


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## Brian13 (Jun 6, 2010)

Jacob J. said:


> You can get this set on Amazon for $20- Telescoping bore gauge



That should work, gotta start pulling the fathers day card now.


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## heimannm (Jun 6, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> .... I need that and a bearing separator and I should have all the tools I need....



Oh yeah, just like I only need two, or twenty-two, or two hundred and twenty-two more saws!

Mark


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## Brian13 (Jun 6, 2010)

heimannm said:


> Oh yeah, just like I only need two, or twenty-two, or two hundred and twenty-two more saws!
> 
> Mark



I really tried to find someone I knew that I could borrow those from. Nobody I know has anything like that. Not even my dad who is famous for getting tools he might need. And I figure if I can use them once there will be a second and a third.


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## Brian13 (Jun 7, 2010)

Got presents in the mail today. Looks like I will be rebuilding a carb Wednesday.


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## sefh3 (Jun 7, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> Got presents in the mail today. Looks like I will be rebuilding a carb Wednesday.



I'm needing one of those kits. PM me the information to where you bought that from, please.


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## Brian13 (Jun 7, 2010)

sefh3 said:


> I'm needing one of those kits. PM me the information to where you bought that from, please.



PM sent, hope it helps.


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## Brian13 (Jun 10, 2010)

Got the carburetor rebuilt today. I took pics as I went. If you see anything I missed or did wrong please let me know. First pic is the bottom of the carb with the new welch plugs and needle. And the next is new o-rings on the mixture screw.








Next is the bottom plate with the two gaskets and the screen thing in the middle. And then the middle plate added with the diaphragm and gasket.


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## Brian13 (Jun 10, 2010)

Hear is the whole thing. After all that I realized I didnt order the two gaskets that go in between the airbox and the carb.


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## Brian13 (Jun 10, 2010)

I also tried to clean up the bow as well. Not perfect but better.


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## sefh3 (Jun 10, 2010)

Did you set your metering level? That's about the only thing I can see.


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## Brian13 (Jun 10, 2010)

sefh3 said:


> Did you set your metering level? That's about the only thing I can see.



Didnt even know you had to do that, nor do I know how.


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## blsnelling (Jun 10, 2010)

Did you tap in the center of the welch plugs?


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## leeha (Jun 10, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Did you tap in the center of the welch plugs?



They don't look like there tap in to me.
Setting the metering lever is critical.


Lee


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## sefh3 (Jun 10, 2010)

Read this article. It will help you in the rebuild process


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## Brian13 (Jun 10, 2010)

Thanks Brad for cleaning the carb it looks great!! The welch plugs droped in without needing to tap in. The metering lever though I am going to have to take apart and learn how to do it. When I rebuilt my carb on my 044 I didnt do it either, seemed to run ok though. Where can I read on how to set it, and is it different for each carb or is it universal?


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## sefh3 (Jun 10, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> Thanks Brad for cleaning the carb it looks great!! The welch plugs droped in without needing to tap in. The metering lever though I am going to have to take apart and learn how to do it. When I rebuilt my carb on my 044 I didnt do it either, seemed to run ok though. Where can I read on how to set it, and is it different for each carb or is it universal?



Here try this http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=122113


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## Brian13 (Jun 10, 2010)

sefh3 said:


> Read this article. It will help you in the rebuild process



I will definitely read through it and correct anything I missed. Thanks for posting the link!!


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## blsnelling (Jun 10, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> Thanks Brad for cleaning the carb it looks great!! The welch plugs droped in without needing to tap in. The metering lever though I am going to have to take apart and learn how to do it. When I rebuilt my carb on my 044 I didnt do it either, seemed to run ok though. Where can I read on how to set it, and is it different for each carb or is it universal?



You have to tap in the centers in order to flare out the plug and get a good seal. Technically, no additional sealant is needed.


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## Brian13 (Jun 10, 2010)

Ah I understand now. Makes sense. Dis-assembly and assembly of a chainsaw in and of itself is pretty simple. Its all the small things you need to know that get you. Usually I find this out when something breaks. I can not thank you guys enough for the help.


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## blsnelling (Jun 10, 2010)

What did you use for sealant on those plugs?


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## cpr (Jun 10, 2010)

When you tap those plugs down, try to use a punch just slightly smaller than the plug itself, too small and you risk piercing it. Oh, and tap means tap, no 24oz. mill-faces like this guy uses :computer2:.


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## Brian13 (Jun 10, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> What did you use for sealant on those plugs?



I was recommended nail polish by a shop mechanic at my local Stihl dealer. I will probably remove it tap the plugs and find some Indian Head gasket shellac I have seen recommended on here.


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## leeha (Jun 10, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> I was recommended nail polish by a shop mechanic at my local Stihl dealer. I will probably remove it tap the plugs and find some Indian Head gasket shellac I have seen recommended on here.



I would remove the plugs. and get rid
of all the sealant. Install the plugs and 
tap them so they are flush or flat. Not
curved as new. Do not use any sealant.


Lee


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## Brian13 (Jun 10, 2010)

cpr said:


> When you tap those plugs down, try to use a punch just slightly smaller than the plug itself, too small and you risk piercing it. Oh, and tap means tap, no 24oz. mill-faces like this guy uses :computer2:.



I should have a punch that will work(with a flat tip not pointed). And I have a 16 oz brass hammer I use when I dont need to kill it LOL.


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## Brian13 (Jun 10, 2010)

leeha said:


> I would remove the plugs. and get rid
> of all the sealant. Install the plugs and
> tap them so they are flush or flat. Not
> curved as new. Do not use any sealant.
> ...



I will do that, just have to find the wifes nail polish remover. I will try to get some pics up this weekend after I have corrected everything.


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## cpr (Jun 10, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> I should have a punch that will work(with a flat tip not pointed). And I have a 16 oz brass hammer I use when I dont need to kill it LOL.



Perfect, I use the same thing.


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## Brian13 (Jun 10, 2010)

Just read the whole thread on rebuilding a Mac carb. I am assuming that when you set the metering lever you just bend the tab if it is to high? And the two gaskets and diaphragm, my carb has a choke so it should work with the diaphragm sandwiched between the two gaskets? I guess after this is done I need to redo the welch plug on the 044 now and check the metering lever.


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## RandyMac (Jun 10, 2010)

I have really enjoyed your rebuild, and will stayed tuned.

I'll be running my Super tomorrow.


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## Brian13 (Jun 10, 2010)

Ok I think I have the carb fixed. Checked the metering lever and it was just a little high. Set it to about .005ish below a straight edge. And I removed the plugs cleaned them and then taped them in.


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## Brian13 (Jun 10, 2010)

RandyMac said:


> I have really enjoyed your rebuild, and will stayed tuned.
> 
> I'll be running my Super tomorrow.



Rub it in why dont ya.


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## cpr (Jun 10, 2010)

RandyMac said:


> I have really enjoyed your rebuild, and will stayed tuned.
> 
> I'll be running my Super tomorrow.



AWESOME. Everone I know looks at me funny when I pull out the Jim Beam Black. Too bad for them, but more for me!


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## sefh3 (Jun 10, 2010)

Oh it takes time. My first rebuild took 3 months. I can't wait to hear this thing purrrr when your done. 

The lever should be just right.

What you doing for a cylinder?


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## Brian13 (Jun 10, 2010)

cpr said:


> AWESOME. Everone I know looks at me funny when I pull out the Jim Beam Black. Too bad for them, but more for me!



I am not really a liquor person at all, but I like beer with about 9 to 12% alcohol.
I think of them as a hybrid between beer and liquor.


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## Brian13 (Jun 10, 2010)

sefh3 said:


> Oh it takes time. My first rebuild took 3 months. I can't wait to hear this thing purrrr when your done.
> 
> The lever should be just right.
> 
> What you doing for a cylinder?



I am going to try boring it out. It may seem kinda silly but I want to give as much of the original saw back to my dad as possible. It seems like cheating to replace something if I can make it work. If that wont work out I have a back up to work with.


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## cpr (Jun 10, 2010)

No liquor person either, just bourbon . I'm past my drinkin' years, but there's nothing quite like 2 fingers of good stuff late in the evening when all is quiet in the house. A chance to sit and ponder, clears the mind and let's me sleep peacefully.


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## Brian13 (Jun 10, 2010)

cpr said:


> No liquor person either, just bourbon . I'm past my drinkin' years, but there's nothing quite like 2 fingers of good stuff late in the evening when all is quiet in the house. A chance to sit and ponder, clears the mind and let's me sleep peacefully.



Agreed!!!! Mine is a beer or two sitting in front of my smoker cooking dinner.


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## leeha (Jun 10, 2010)

Brian, You need to use a punch on the welch plugs just a tad smaller than the plug so you flatten the whole top. You want to take to curve out of the plug so it expands and makes a good seal to the carb body. looks like you used a small punch. I would do it again with the correct punch.


Lee


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## Brian13 (Jun 10, 2010)

leeha said:


> Brian, You need to use a punch on the welch plugs just a tad smaller than the plug so you flatten the whole top. You want to take to curve out of the plug so it expands and makes a good seal to the carb body. looks like you used a small punch. I would do it again with the correct punch.
> 
> 
> Lee



Ok, I figured if I didnt go far enough I could always go farther. I will have to find a socket to use, I dont have any punches big enough. I will try again Saturday. How flat am I shooting for?


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## Urbicide (Jun 10, 2010)

The top of the welch plug should be level with the surroundcing surface.


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## Brian13 (Jun 11, 2010)

Urbicide said:


> The top of the welch plug should be level with the surroundcing surface.



Sounds good, just trying not to break anything. Wouldnt be the first time I have broke somthing with a hammer. I will try again tomarow. Stuck at work till 7:30 tomarow morning.


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## Dan_IN_MN (Jun 11, 2010)

leeha said:


> Brian, You need to use a punch on the welch plugs just a tad smaller than the plug so you flatten the whole top. You want to take to curve out of the plug so it expands and makes a good seal to the carb body. looks like you used a small punch. I would do it again with the correct punch.
> 
> 
> Lee





Brian13 said:


> Ok, I figured if I didnt go far enough I could always go farther. I will have to find a socket to use, I dont have any punches big enough. I will try again Saturday. How flat am I shooting for?





Urbicide said:


> The top of the welch plug should be level with the surroundcing surface.



Brian

I've been following your rebuild and you're doing a great job!

IMO a socket would not get the results you're looking for. The socket would apply pressure on the outside of the plug. Where as the desired outcome would be the total plug flattened to expand it into the hole. If you don't have a flat punch, aka drift punch, that is the size of the plug, us your small punch but use light taps starting in the center and work your way in a circle toward the outter edge. Thus giving the effect of using a larger punch.

I hope that is clear. I sure someone else could have said that is fewer words.

Good luck with the rebuild!

I'm watching!

Dan


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## Saw Dr. (Jun 11, 2010)

The end of a 3/8 socket extension would probably work pretty well at flattening those welch plugs


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## Dan_IN_MN (Jun 11, 2010)

Saw Dr. said:


> The end of a 3/8 socket extension would probably work pretty well at flattening those welch plugs



Like I said....fewer words! +1 REP sent!


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## Brian13 (Jun 11, 2010)

manyhobies said:


> Brian
> 
> I've been following your rebuild and you're doing a great job!
> 
> ...





Saw Dr. said:


> The end of a 3/8 socket extension would probably work pretty well at flattening those welch plugs



That sounds good I have 3/8 and 1/2 extentoins. I was thinking using a socket upside down, and the extentions never even came to mind. I will find something that will work. Thanks for all the help and tricks.


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## Brian13 (Jun 12, 2010)

Ok I have pounded them pretty flattish. The large plug looks like a 3 year old did it but I really didnt have anything just under an inch to tap it with. I tried a 1\2 in extension, a 3\8 with a socket upside down on it and tried to flatten it best I could. So I am really hoping this will work properly otherwise I may need to order another plug.






BTW what will happen if the plug leaks? I am asking because I was trying to clean a carb off of a riding lawnmower and when blowing all the passages out I popped the welch plug out. I just popped it back in and didnt think anything about it. It still will only run on choke and is not working right. so just wondering if that is the problem.


----------



## Brian13 (Jun 12, 2010)

Just put new bearings on the crank, and have a few pics showing the process. If you notice on the end of the shaft I left the nuts on. I was told by a friend of mine to do that to prevent flaring of the end of the shaft. I dont know if it was needed but figured it wouldnt hurt anything. For bearing installation I used a spark plug tool I had laying around, fit the inside race perfect. Probably not the right tool but it worked. My tool collection is pretty limited to the basics and have to do a lot of improvising.








And finally you see the both bearing installed, both bearing move freely with no tight spots.






I am in the process now of making a jig to swap pistons out, and will post pics throughout that process. Once again my jig probably isnt the best for the job but if it works I am happy. Time to go do some reading on how to push the wrist pin while watching the babies.


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## Brian13 (Jun 12, 2010)

Got a new decal from Sugar Creek today.


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## Brian13 (Jun 12, 2010)

Also got some full wrap bars in today. Still waiting on the recoil spring, and still need to order the carb\airbox gaskets.


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## heimannm (Jun 12, 2010)

Brian, I was looking at my Super 250's with the extra hole in the air box, looks to me like it simply fixed the air box to the shroud underneath, should not matter if it is there or not as most of the saws don't have the extra fastener anyway.

Generally if a welch plug is leaking it will pass excess fuel and cause flooding rather than a lean condition that requires keeping the choke on. If the carburetor is bascially adjusted correctly and won't run without the choke it is either an air leak (gasket bad or something not tightened properly) or simply too lean on fuel as in a fuel supply problem or incorrect setting of the float height.

Mark


----------



## Brian13 (Jun 12, 2010)

heimannm said:


> Brian, I was looking at my Super 250's with the extra hole in the air box, looks to me like it simply fixed the air box to the shroud underneath, should not matter if it is there or not as most of the saws don't have the extra fastener anyway.
> 
> Generally if a welch plug is leaking it will pass excess fuel and cause flooding rather than a lean condition that requires keeping the choke on. If the carburetor is bascially adjusted correctly and won't run without the choke it is either an air leak (gasket bad or something not tightened properly) or simply too lean on fuel as in a fuel supply problem or incorrect setting of the float height.
> 
> Mark



After talking with you earlyer I just cleaned up the air box and painted it as it was. Didnt bother trying to make a hole, figured that would be one less chance for me to screw something up. And thanks for explaining the welch plugs, that rules out on cause for a whole other separate project.


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## Brian13 (Jun 13, 2010)

Ok I have run into a bit of a problem. I am trying to find the proper way to remove the wrist pin. All the manuals I have looked through explain how to install the pin, but nothing on how to remove it. I have seen the special tool and seen step by step on how to use it. But it looks like it wont work on this style piston. In order for the tool that I have seen to work I would have to be able to put a nut of some sort on the blind end of the pin to pull it out. I have also read that some pins are threaded on the inside and can be pulled out that way, but there is no threads on this pin. I have also read in a shop manual about pushing the blind bearing into the piston, witch leads me to believe that you would just push the pin out with the blind bearing. But I am unsure of that and dont want to assume anything and damage a perfectly good piston. If anybody has any experience with removing the wrist pin on this series saw or has a link with a removal process I could really use some direction. Thanks!


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## heimannm (Jun 13, 2010)

I looked through some of the other McCulloch manuals and such I have around and could not find anything on removing the wrist pin. Looking at the special tools catalog it appears that you just press it out with the bearings using the Piston Tool Kit 62459A. The tool set consists of a three section cradle for the three piston diameters (2.125, 2.165, 2.218) and two drivers. I assume the larger diameter driver is to remove the bearings and pin together, and the smaller diameter driver is to press the wrist pin back in the new assembly.

There are some other tool kits listed for "blind piston" models like the kart engines, S797, and CP & SP 125's that have what look like valve spring retainer clips that I assume allow you to grip the wrist pin to pull it out.

You might try calling Bob Johnson to see if he has any ideas, certainly JJ could tell us but I thinks he is in Alaska right now, I bet Thomas72 would know as well.

Mark


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## Kingsley (Jun 14, 2010)

I made a jig to remove the wrist pin in my Mall chainsaw. Used a hearty pice of oak 4x4. Drilled a hole in it the aprox. size of the piston and another oversized for the wrist pin. This worked great as a cradle to hold the piston while I pressed out the wrist pin. Just don't have any piston rings on. Installing or removing. Hope this helps.




The jig is at the back of my workbench in this picture.


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## Mastermind (Jun 14, 2010)

Kingsley said:


> I made a jig to remove the wrist pin in my Mall chainsaw. Used a hearty pice of oak 4x4. Drilled a hole in it the aprox. size of the piston and another oversized for the wrist pin. This worked great as a cradle to hold the piston while I pressed out the wrist pin. Just don't have any piston rings on. Installing or removing. Hope this helps.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Same way I do it, I just use a forstner bit to drill a hole in the wood roughly the same size as the piston, and then drill a hole to receive the pin. Then press away. I have also heated the rod a bit to help it turn loose.


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## Brian13 (Jun 14, 2010)

heimannm said:


> I looked through some of the other McCulloch manuals and such I have around and could not find anything on removing the wrist pin. Looking at the special tools catalog it appears that you just press it out with the bearings using the Piston Tool Kit 62459A. The tool set consists of a three section cradle for the three piston diameters (2.125, 2.165, 2.218) and two drivers. I assume the larger diameter driver is to remove the bearings and pin together, and the smaller diameter driver is to press the wrist pin back in the new assembly.
> 
> There are some other tool kits listed for "blind piston" models like the kart engines, S797, and CP & SP 125's that have what look like valve spring retainer clips that I assume allow you to grip the wrist pin to pull it out.
> 
> ...



Thanks for looking. It seems to be a Mcculloch super secret. I have to call Bob Johnson tomorrow to order some gaskets I forgot last time so I will ask him then.



Kingsley said:


> I made a jig to remove the wrist pin in my Mall chainsaw. Used a hearty pice of oak 4x4. Drilled a hole in it the aprox. size of the piston and another oversized for the wrist pin. This worked great as a cradle to hold the piston while I pressed out the wrist pin. Just don't have any piston rings on. Installing or removing. Hope this helps.





mastermind7864 said:


> Same way I do it, I just use a forstner bit to drill a hole in the wood roughly the same size as the piston, and then drill a hole to receive the pin. Then press away. I have also heated the rod a bit to help it turn loose.



Thanks guys that helps. I was kind of on that path, just need something to drill out a cradle in the block of wood I am working with. A piece of sandpaper takes way way way to long for my short attention span.

First thing tomorrow when I get off work I am headed to the machine shop. Hopefully it will go well, they will be able to bore it and assembly will begin tomorrow.


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## Brian13 (Jun 14, 2010)

Almost forgot, on the off chance that I can install the piston tomarow is there anything special for ring alignment. The only pistons I have done have had pins so ring gap placement was easy. With all the ports being reletivly small circles does it matter as long as the ring ends are not on the same side? And so far it looks to me that the ring gap should be about .004 sound right? Seems a bit tight to me but this is the first time working on one of these. Thanks 
Brian


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## leeha (Jun 15, 2010)

.004 is not enough for ring gap.
I would like to see .008 to .010,
.004 would be good for piston clearance.
Just make sure the ring end gaps are not 
inline with any ports if you can.



Lee


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## hoss (Jun 15, 2010)

:agree2: What Lee said.


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## Dan_IN_MN (Jun 15, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> Almost forgot, on the off chance that I can install the piston tomarow is there anything special for ring alignment. The only pistons I have done have had pins so ring gap placement was easy. With all the ports being reletivly small circles does it matter as long as the ring ends are not on the same side? And so far it looks to me that the ring gap should be about .004 sound right? Seems a bit tight to me but this is the first time working on one of these. Thanks
> Brian





leeha said:


> .004 is not enough for ring gap.
> I would like to see .008 to .010,
> .004 would be good for piston clearance.
> Just make sure the ring end gaps are not
> ...



I may be showing my ignorance here about Mac engines. But aren't they just like all 2 strokes with pins in the ring grove to keep the ring gap out of the ports?


Yeah, .004 doesn't allow much for heat expansion on rings.


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## Brian13 (Jun 15, 2010)

leeha said:


> .004 is not enough for ring gap.
> I would like to see .008 to .010,
> .004 would be good for piston clearance.
> Just make sure the ring end gaps are not
> ...





manyhobies said:


> I may be showing my ignorance here about Mac engines. But aren't they just like all 2 strokes with pins in the ring grove to keep the ring gap out of the ports?
> 
> 
> Yeah, .004 doesn't allow much for heat expansion on rings.



I dont know if Macs are the only one but there are no locating pins in the ring groove. I know the ring ends are not supposed to be on top of each other, but that is all I know. 

I have the cylinder at the machine shop, and have no clue when I will get it back. The guy just said he hopes I wasnt in a hurry. Apparently boring these are a big PIA according to the guy at the machine shop.


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## leeha (Jun 15, 2010)

Boring a block isn't a problem if you have the 
right equipment. I'm having a block bored
.030 right now and will have it this week.



Lee


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## Brian13 (Jun 15, 2010)

leeha said:


> Boring a block isn't a problem if you have the
> right equipment. I'm having a block bored
> .030 right now and will have it this week.
> 
> ...



I would assume this guy has the right equipment. This is the biggest machine shop I have seen in my area, but I think because this is so small and not a car block or something like that I think I am very low on his priority list.He didnt seem real exited to say the least. As long as it is done right I am not concerned how long it takes within reason.


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## blsnelling (Jun 15, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> I would assume this guy has the right equipment. This is the biggest machine shop I have seen in my area, but I think because this is so small and not a car block or something like that I think I am very low on his priority list.He didnt seem real exited to say the least. As long as it is done right I am not concerned how long it takes within reason.



I would make sure he's experience with doing similiar cylinders. Sounds like maybe he's not. You might be better off sending it to another AS member that has someone they know will do it right.


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## Brian13 (Jun 15, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> I would make sure he's experience with doing similiar cylinders. Sounds like maybe he's not. You might be better off sending it to another AS member that has someone they know will do it right.



From talking to him it sounds like he has experience with these. This shop comes recommended from the other machine shops I have been to. It was dangerously close to lunch time when I came in, may have just been cranky.


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## Brian13 (Jun 16, 2010)

Here is everything ready to be assemble. Sure am glad I have an IPL for this puzzle. All I am waiting for now is a couple of gaskets from Bob Johnson, the starter spring, and the cylinder. I tried to push the pin out of the piston today and wasnt very successful. I think I am going to have to go to the bicycle shop I used to work at and try there press. I am trying very hard not to destroy the piston if possible. I will tell you one thing learning as you go is STUPID. Having the feeling that your next move will destroy what you are working on makes for a long drawn out project. Just cant wait to hear it fire for the first time.


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## heimannm (Jun 16, 2010)

Just to help motivate you, here is a couple of shots of my Super 250 having a go at the maple in my yard. 

First is son Jeff working on a log, he was all smiles






I had to run it a bit more as well






Mark


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## Brian13 (Jun 16, 2010)

Between your pics, Randys and the several other Mac threads going on right now I am anxious with anticipation. Never run a Mac of any sort. Never used a bow bar. I have no clue what I am looking forward too but I cant wait to find out. Definitely going to do some heavy testing before I hand back over to my dad.


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## heimannm (Jun 16, 2010)

There is simply no comparison to the sound of one of the old McCulloch's with a modern high speed piston ported saw. The modern saws sound like rice burners, the McCulloch like an old Harley Davison. 

With the muffler pointing down beside the saw, you get the sound from the exhaust combined with the echo bouncing off the ground. Look at the photo's above, there is no sawdust accumulating below that saw!

Mark


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## Urbicide (Jun 16, 2010)

heimannm said:


> With the muffler pointing down beside the saw, you get the sound from the exhaust combined with the echo bouncing off the ground. Look at the photo's above, there is no sawdust accumulating below that saw!
> 
> Mark



Mark, do your neighbors prefer the sound of the can muffler or that of the aluminum stack pipe?


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## Brian13 (Jun 19, 2010)

I got the recoil spring along with the carb gaskets and a new bearing for the piston when I push the pin out. Just waiting on the cylinder now. I have a feeling the recoil spring is going to involve a lot of screaming and swearing. On a side note I was talking to my Dad this weekend and found out the saw was not actually his. His father got if from a lumber yard he worked at. My Grandfather died when I was pretty young so I have very limited memories of him. So that makes this a little more worth the effort. So now I just sit and wait.


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## RandyMac (Jun 19, 2010)

Here are your spikes Brian, I'm hanging on to the cover


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## Brian13 (Jun 19, 2010)

Thank you, I that will be a great finishing touch.


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## andrethegiant70 (Jun 19, 2010)

I've got to say this has been an AMAZING thread for about 5 different reasons. Lovin' it! Brian, I HOPE you have video capability.


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## cpr (Jun 19, 2010)

heimannm said:


> There is simply no comparison to the sound of one of the old McCulloch's with a modern high speed piston ported saw. The modern saws sound like rice burners, the McCulloch like an old Harley Davison.
> 
> With the muffler pointing down beside the saw, you get the sound from the exhaust combined with the echo bouncing off the ground. Look at the photo's above, there is no sawdust accumulating below that saw!
> 
> Mark



Yep and video simply doesn't do them justice. That crackle idle goes right through you and the roar... pure west-coast, hot-rod thunder. On the old non-av ones like yours, try running them just once without gloves, you will not regret feeling it. A very intimate encounter with horsepower the modern saws simply cannot match (however I would not want to do it all day!).


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## heimannm (Jun 19, 2010)

Brian, on the big McCullochs I prefer to hook the spring in the starter and then wind it in. On other saws it may be easier to wind the spring up and grab it with a pair of needle nose pliers or vice grips but winding it in works well enough for a saw like yours.

I gave lessons at the 2009 GTG at Grandpatractors when the starter spring on my 795 broke (the torch was used to heat the end of the spring to allow me to reform the hook). 

Just to see if it was really possible, I have done this with my eyes closed in my shop for practice.






Mark


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## cpr (Jun 19, 2010)

Same way. I learned the hard way, now it's a bit easier. Assemble it minus the outermost cover. Keep the handle wound all the way around the spool. Wind it up 3-4 turns to where it retracts nicely and clamp the handle in place (pony clamp works great for this) and secure the cover... done. Hardest part is keeping the coils from overlapping during assembly, but if you're patient, it only takes a minute or 3...


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## Brian13 (Jun 20, 2010)

Thank you andrethegiant70, I am pretty sure I have video capability. I know I can record, and I am pretty sure I can get it on the computer. I am definitely looking forward to hearing it run. Im sure my neighbors will love it. I would have never even thought about winding it through like that. With the old spring I tried several unsuccessful ways. Thought maybe a new spring would make it osier. I will try that out tomorrow when I get off work.


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## Dan_IN_MN (Jun 20, 2010)

Brian

Looking good!

I just reread your sig........ "I really dont know what I am doing, I just assume it goes back together the same way it came apart."

Please don't put "this" one back together "looking" the same way! LOL

I bet Fatguy would of had that cylinder punched out and back to you by now! They don't take that long to do. I watched a friend bore one out and from setup to finish I don't think it was 30 mts. But time does fly when you're having fun!

Mark.....In that pic of you fixing the recoil spring it does look like your eyes are closed!


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## Brian13 (Jun 20, 2010)

It will definetly not look the same LOL, and I hope it will run better than when I took it apart. The machine shop I took it to looked busy, I just hope they can get done in less time then me shipping it off


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## J Beard (Jun 20, 2010)

*Fitting piston*

take that piston with you to your machine shop when you pick up your newly bored jug. they will be able to press it for you for a few $$. only takes a shop with the right tools a minute or two to do. and you will know it is done right.


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## Brian13 (Jun 21, 2010)

Ok took me awhile to figure it out but I have video capability. I am sure there is a better way but for now I have to upload it on facebook and embed it from there. I figured I would try to take a video of the starter spring installation. I dont think I will be doing it blind folded anytime soon but there was no yelling involved either LOL. 

<object width="320" height="240" ><param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" /><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" /><param name="movie" value="http://www.facebook.com/v/129241870443417" /><embed src="http://www.facebook.com/v/129241870443417" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="320" height="240"></embed></object>

After this I fixed all the noise and now it seems to work without all the noise.


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## ross_scott (Jun 21, 2010)

Brian it is better to upload to youtube facebook etc are useless for videos


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## Brian13 (Jun 21, 2010)

ross_scott said:


> Brian it is better to upload to youtube facebook etc are useless for videos



Thanks first time trying to upload videos here. New to using youtube as well Hope this is better.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/9N4-gRzo_LU&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/9N4-gRzo_LU&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


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## blsnelling (Jun 21, 2010)

Looks good Brian.


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## ross_scott (Jun 24, 2010)

How is the saw progressing Brian? can't wait to see her all put back together again and a video of it running


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## Brian13 (Jun 24, 2010)

Almost everything is in order. Just have a couple minor odds and ends to finish prepping for assembly. The big hold up is I havnt got the cylinder back from the machine shop. If I dont hear from them soon I am going to have to find a different plan. So for now just sitting back and waiting.


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## leeha (Jun 25, 2010)

Think you better find another machine shop.
I just had a Mac cylinder done. Dropped it off
Friday and was done Monday.



Lee


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## Brian13 (Jun 25, 2010)

leeha said:


> Think you better find another machine shop.
> I just had a Mac cylinder done. Dropped it off
> Friday and was done Monday.
> 
> ...



That is where I am going to run into a problem. They are only machine shop in the area that said they can do it. And the guy wasnt Mr Sunshine to say the least. When I gave it to him his exact words were "hope your not in a hurry". So I figured on a week. I hate to be a PIA customer, but he wants way to much for it to sit there forever. So I am going to stop by Monday on my way home from work to see whats going on.


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## Brian13 (Jun 28, 2010)

Finally had a chance to make a block for the piston to push the pin. When I had talked to Bob Johnson ordering some parts, I asked him about pushing the pin. He had said you push it through the blind bearing and will destroy it. I ordered another bearing since he had one and went to a place I used to work and pressed the pin out. Things are easy when you use the right tools.
This is the block I made, not pretty but worked.






The only problem I had was the race did not come out of the piston. So I will have to figure out how to get that out so I can put the new bearing in. No hurry though its just going to be a spare part.





And these are the important parts, look to be in good shape to me. Just need to be put in the other piston.


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## blsnelling (Jun 28, 2010)

Are they not done with your cylinder yet? If not, you've got more patience than I do. I'd be finding someone else that could actually get the work done. It's not like this is some big job. IMHO, there should be no more than 1 week turn around on something like that.


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## Brian13 (Jun 28, 2010)

Not yet. The only reason I have patience is they are the only shop in the area that can do it. The only plus is the feel like temps have been about 100* to about 110* outside, so I havnt been doing much more outside than what is necessary. I hope it wont be much longer though, I have a couple of tree to cut up and I am waiting to finish this so I can test it out.


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## sefh3 (Jun 29, 2010)

I would contact Leeha and see who did his cylinder for him. Go pick yours up and send it to Leeha's guy. I wouldn't wait no more than a week. By the time he gets to it, he will more than likely forget why it was there.


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## Eccentric (Jun 29, 2010)

sefh3 said:


> I would contact Leeha and see who did his cylinder for him. Go pick yours up and send it to Leeha's guy. I wouldn't wait no more than a week. By the time he gets to it, he will more than likely forget why it was there.



I second that. The grump that has your jug now obviously doesn't care about the job, and is likely to bugger it up if/when he finaly gets to it. Any machine shop that can bore and hone a motorcycle cylinder can handle your jug.


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## Brian13 (Jun 30, 2010)

Stopped by the machine shop today, and the guy said it should be ready today or tomorrow. So we shall see. I have a set of bore gauges on the way so I can double check it, and make sure everything is good. I think I see light at the end of the tunnel, might be my eyes playing tricks, but I think I see light.


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## blsnelling (Jun 30, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> Stopped by the machine shop today, and the guy said it should be ready today or tomorrow.



Excellent


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## 8433jeff (Jun 30, 2010)

Watch out for trains! This has been a good post, keep up the fine work. How are you doing on deadline, or is there one?


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## sefh3 (Jun 30, 2010)

Good news my friend!!!! We should be seeing a video by the weekend then, right!!!! Make sure you put some oil in that cylinder before you install the piston.


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## blsnelling (Jun 30, 2010)

So what's the desired piston clearance?


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## Brian13 (Jun 30, 2010)

8433jeff said:


> Watch out for trains! This has been a good post, keep up the fine work. How are you doing on deadline, or is there one?



Thank you, Hope the light I see is not a train LOL. My goal was to have it ready for my fathers B-day in September. So I have plenty of time still.



sefh3 said:


> Good news my friend!!!! We should be seeing a video by the weekend then, right!!!! Make sure you put some oil in that cylinder before you install the piston.



Not making any promises...But should atleast have steady pics of assembly with any questions I am going to run into posted.



blsnelling said:


> So what's the desired piston clearance?



According to some literature that was posted previously, it gave a range of .0025 to .005. So I told the guy .003 to .004. I figured that would be a safe range. I ordered at set of bore gauges so I can check it all to make sure its good. Not sure if my micrometer is accurate enough for it to matter but I should have a pretty good idea.


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## blsnelling (Jun 30, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> According to some literature that was posted previously, it gave a range of .0025 to .005. So I told the guy .003 to .004. I figured that would be a safe range. I ordered at set of bore gauges so I can check it all to make sure its good. Not sure if my micrometer is accurate enough for it to matter but I should have a pretty good idea.


Is there a spec on the finish it needs to have?


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## Brian13 (Jun 30, 2010)

Meaning the etching on the cylinder wall? I didnt see anything through what I have read. Someone else will have to answer that more accuratly, because I honestly dont know.


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## Brian13 (Jun 30, 2010)

Part of the reason this project is so slow going is I am very inexperienced in mechanics. The other part is the same reason I got in to working on saw to begin with. Rather than being covered on oil and gas I have been covered in Gerber carrots.
On the left is Alexander and on the right is River.


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## leeha (Jun 30, 2010)

Brian, .003 might be a tad to tight.
I would go .004 if it were me. JMO.



Lee


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## Brian13 (Jun 30, 2010)

It looked like he wrote down .004 when he took it in. I will definitely measure it when I get it back.


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## Brian13 (Jul 1, 2010)

Just picked up the cylinder today. They said final clearance was .004. I checked as best as I could and came up with .0045-.005. I dont think my micrometer is as accurate though. I will post some pics of the bore later tonight, got to get ready to take my wife to the doctors now.


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## blsnelling (Jul 1, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> Just picked up the cylinder today. They said final clearance was .004. I checked as best as I could and came up with .0045-.005. I dont think my micrometer is as accurate though. I will post some pics of the bore later tonight, got to get ready to take my wife to the doctors now.



Awesome! I bet you can't wait to get to work on it. I know I can't wait to see it done


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## Brian13 (Jul 1, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> Awesome! I bet you can't wait to get to work on it. I know I can't wait to see it done



You are 100% correct. Got to be careful though, when I rush things I tend to break things. Have to go real slow and pay attention to what I am doing.


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## blsnelling (Jul 1, 2010)

Wash the cylinder thoroughly with hot soapy watter. Before installation, put a light coat of 2-stroke oilon the piston and cylinder. Oil all the bearings as well.


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## Brian13 (Jul 1, 2010)

Will do, dish soap or degreaser like simple green?


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## blsnelling (Jul 1, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> Will do, dish soap or degreaser like simple green?



Either would work.


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## sefh3 (Jul 1, 2010)

I would use simple green. It's more of a cleaner/degreaser. Make sure it is super dry before adding the oil to the cylinder. As you know, they don't mix well.


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## Brian13 (Jul 1, 2010)

Here are pics of the cylinder. There are still some spots on the cylinder but they do not seem bad.


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## Brian13 (Jul 1, 2010)

sefh3 said:


> I would use simple green. It's more of a cleaner/degreaser. Make sure it is super dry before adding the oil to the cylinder. As you know, they don't mix well.



Sounds good, I will blow dry it with the air compressor real good before I put oil on it. I plan on spending all day Saturday on it. The part that scares me the most is putting the crank back in and then the case cover. What ever tools you are supposed to use I probably dont have.


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## Dan_IN_MN (Jul 1, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> Stopped by the machine shop today, and the guy said it should be ready today or tomorrow. So we shall see. ......QUOTE]
> 
> And.... what he was thinking..... OH CRAP! I forgot all about that cylinder!
> 
> ...


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## Brian13 (Jul 1, 2010)

Your one step ahead of me then LOL. I thought they just hadnt thought of locater pins yet. Still dont understand how the porting works. Im learning the more I read here though.


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## leeha (Jul 1, 2010)

Glad you got the cylinder back Brian,
Looks like it will work fine. As others 
have said, make sure it's clean and lubed
before assembly. Good luck.
Can't wait to hear it run.


Lee


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## Brian13 (Jul 1, 2010)

Thanks Lee, hope to have a video up real soon.... Does anybody have any tips for putting the crank and case cover back on. If I can remember to bring the service manual to work I plan on reading up on how to tomorrow. Just wondering if anybody has any tips.


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## Dan_IN_MN (Jul 1, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> Thanks Lee, hope to have a video up real soon.... Does anybody have any tips for putting the crank and case cover back on. If I can remember to bring the service manual to work I plan on reading up on how to tomorrow. Just wondering if anybody has any tips.



Brian

Besides keeping things clean, pre-lube surfaces with 2 stroke oil. Post pics if you have questions. Well...... you already know that.

What kind of work do you do?


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## Brian13 (Jul 1, 2010)

manyhobies said:


> Brian
> 
> Besides keeping things clean, pre-lube surfaces with 2 stroke oil. Post pics if you have questions. Well...... you already know that.
> 
> What kind of work do you do?



Will definetly post pics as I go espesialy if I have any questions. As for a job I work for the Fire Department. Lost my second job as a bicycle mechanic due to economy. So for now I play daddy for second job.


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## heimannm (Jul 1, 2010)

Brian,

As you saw in the Kart video, use grease on the connecting rod to hold the needle rollers in place after you install the piston/rod assembly into the bore. There is a chamfer on the bore that will allow you to carefully work the piston and rings into the bore. I normally try to make sure the end gaps on the rings are about 120° apart and towards the intake side, away from the exhaust. Guess I've never taken one apart again to see if the rings float around in there or not.

With the needle bearings on the rod and the piston pushed up to TDC, you can manipulate the crankshaft into position, crank bearings will already be on the crank shaft and I have never had any problem pressing them into the crank case bore with nothing more than hand pressure and a little wiggle. Again use caution and make sure you don't knock any of the needle rollers off the connecting rod.

The tricky part is to then pull the rod/piston back up so the needles on that end are captured while you install the cap (with needles held in place with grease again). Make sure the marks on the cap line up, if you put in on 180° out of position it will not fit properly.

Some guys will make a big deal of checking the end play on the crank shaft once the cover is installed, I normally use the thinnest gasket I have and make sure there is some movement once the 6 cover bolts are tightened. So far none of my saws have come apart while running after following this procedure.

I think I showed all of this in my 640 thread if you can find it.

Mark


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## Brian13 (Jul 1, 2010)

That sounds a little less complicated than I was thinking. I did not know the cap had to go a certain way. I have plenty of 2 stroke oil to lube bearings and mating surfaces. If I only have to start over 3 times with the needle bearings I will be happy.


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## Brian13 (Jul 3, 2010)

Looks like the ring gaps are .012 for the top ring and .011 for bottom ring. Thats not too much is it?


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## blsnelling (Jul 3, 2010)

That's fine. Put the tightest one on top.


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## Brian13 (Jul 3, 2010)

Thanks, got the piston in and about to do the conecting rod bearings. Piston was harder to get in then the crank. But I havnt broke anything yet so far so good.


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## Brian13 (Jul 3, 2010)

There are two bolts on the crank case cover that have rubber grommets on the head of the bolt. Is that for air seal purposes? They are worn out should I use some permetex black around the head for a seal or does it matter?


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## Dan_IN_MN (Jul 3, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> There are two bolts on the crank case cover that have rubber grommets on the head of the bolt. Is that for air seal purposes? They are worn out should I use some permetex black around the head for a seal or does it matter?



Could you post a pic?


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## Brian13 (Jul 3, 2010)

The one bolt that is started is on that had the rubber around the head and then the one across from it. I believe they are the ones used to pull the case cover off.







There is alittle grease on the bolt but by the head there is a worn out rubber grommet.


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## turtle561 (Jul 3, 2010)

better seal those with something to keep any mix from the crankcase getting through to the points.


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## Brian13 (Jul 3, 2010)

I have the case cover on and connecting rod together. It seems to randomly bind and I cant seem to figure out what is causing it. Here are some pics to see if anything stands out.


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## Mastermind (Jul 3, 2010)

In your top right hand pic the rod is not centered on the crank. Will the rod move side to side? If not this could be causing a bind as the rod rubs tightly against the crank. I've never built one of these saws, so I don't know anything about the configuration.


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## Brian13 (Jul 3, 2010)

mastermind7864 said:


> In your top right hand pic the rod is not centered on the crank. Will the rod move side to side? If not this could be causing a bind as the rod rubs tightly against the crank. I've never built one of these saws, so I don't know anything about the configuration.



It seems like that is the problem maybe. Looking through the service manual and looking at the crank I saw something about the connecting rod being twisted during pressing the pin out and back in. Then I noticed when it binds the connecting rod is all the way to one side of the crank and if I move it to center it moves freely again. Does that sound like the connecting rod needs to be straightened?


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## Mastermind (Jul 3, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> It seems like that is the problem maybe. Looking through the service manual and looking at the crank I saw something about the connecting rod being twisted during pressing the pin out and back in. Then I noticed when it binds the connecting rod is all the way to one side of the crank and if I move it to center it moves freely again. Does that sound like the connecting rod needs to be straightened?



I can't say Brain. Someone with experience with that saw will be along shortly, I'm sure. The group effort that this build has been is the reason I hang out here, good luck with it.


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## Brian13 (Jul 3, 2010)

I hear ya, without this site this saw would still be in its grave!!!


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## blsnelling (Jul 3, 2010)

You've got a bind in the rotating assembly? Are you positive you got the rod cap on the right direction?


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## Brian13 (Jul 3, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> You've got a bind in the rotating assembly? Are you positive you got the rod cap on the right direction?



Yes there are two dots on one side, one on the cap and one on the rod itself. They are lined up together and the mating surfaces of the cap and rod fit perfectly together. The bind seems to be coming somewhere from in the crank, but its random. might get a couple of revolutions before it binds. And it has new crank bearings and seals. I think I am going to have to pull it apart and start over, not the first time I have had to take steps backwards to go forwards.


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## sefh3 (Jul 3, 2010)

Its been a long time since I pulled one apart but I thinl there are shims for the bearings for that saw. I'm sure one of the Mac gurus will be by shorty to confirm.


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## Brian13 (Jul 3, 2010)

I just took it apart and put it back together again. Every thing is smooth until the case cover bolts are torqued in. Then randomly the connecting rod will shift to one side of the crank and bind. Not sure why this is happening and definetly dont want to proceed until I get it rolling over smooth. As for the shims when I took it apart there was none there.


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## RandyMac (Jul 3, 2010)

Which case causes it to bind?


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## Brian13 (Jul 3, 2010)

RandyMac said:


> Which case causes it to bind?



Im not sure what you mean by which case, but I am using all the original parts for the cylinder, crank, connecting rod, and case cover. I am at a loss right now. Even after removing the case cover it still wants to bind. For some reason the connecting rod at the crank wants to shift to one side of the crank and its always the exhaust side. Then it will bind, once you push the connecting rod to the center it moves freely until it shifts again. When I took it apart originally there were no shims, just the needle bearings. I cant see anywhere else where it would be rubbing, I tried tapping the crank to relieve any stress. And I am still getting the same result. Im not really sure what to try next.


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## leeha (Jul 3, 2010)

I haven't had a 250 appart yet but,
Is there a case bolt that goe's through 
the case and might be hitting the crank.
Just a thought. Very hard for us to help
without actually seeing it.


Lee


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## Brian13 (Jul 3, 2010)

I just finished pulling it back apart, and inspected everything for rubbing and didnt see anything. It appears to be the connecting rod but I dont know why. Unless the rod is twisted I cant see why there is a problem.


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## heimannm (Jul 3, 2010)

Brian, I haven't had any of mine bind as you describe, but I would recommend you first give each end of the crankshaft a tap with a brass or hard plastic hammer to make sure the crankshaft is centered in the crank case. When you are finished check the end play of the crankshaft, should have .005" or so if everything is correct.

As we discussed very early on in the project, most of the 200/300/400/500/600 saws had a gasket under the crank case cover where yours has an o-ring. You might try adding a gasket to see if it will help center up the crankshaft and eliminate the bind.

Mark


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## Brian13 (Jul 3, 2010)

By "end play" do you mean physically being able to move the crank .005" back and forth. Sorry if that is a dumb question. The crank has no horizontal play at all. I did use a new o-ring, but I have one of those gaskets to.


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## heimannm (Jul 3, 2010)

If the bearings are tight and the bores are tight there my not be any end play detectable, but most of my older saws will allow the bearings to float a little and produce some end play which indeed is the horizontal movement you describe. 

You won't find any end play on most of the more modern saws where the bearings fit very tight in the bores of the crankcase, that's were giving the crankshaft a tap on either end may help center it and remove any preload on the bearings which may in turn free up your intermittent bind.

Mark


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## Mastermind (Jul 3, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> By "end play" do you mean physically being able to move the crank .005" back and forth. Sorry if that is a dumb question. The crank has no horizontal play at all. I did use a new o-ring, but I have one of those gaskets to.



That's exactly what he means. You my have to give the crank a substantial whack on each end to get that amount of free play.


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## Eccentric (Jul 3, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> By "end play" do you mean physically being able to move the crank .005" back and forth. Sorry if that is a dumb question. The crank has no horizontal play at all. I did use a new o-ring, but I have one of those gaskets to.



Yep. It's measured with a dial indicator mounted on the block and the indicator stem resting against the end of the crank. You push the crank as far 'in' as you can and zero the dial indicator...............then push the crank as far 'the other way' as you can. The dial indicator will show the end play...

I wonder if one of your crank bearings isn't seated right.............either cocked, or not at the propper depth...


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## Brian13 (Jul 3, 2010)

Ok I understand. I am going to try one more time and see what happens. Hope I dont need that gasket. Seems my wife either hid it on me or thew it away. I will post my results as soon as I am done.


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## Brian13 (Jul 3, 2010)

Put everything back together, tapped the crank and it still dosnt feel right. This time I noticed some scratching starting to appear on the piston through the ports. Next time I get a chance to work on it I will pull it back completely apart clean it again, and remeasure all tolerances. Something is not right, and exactly what it is has me baffled.


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## Eccentric (Jul 3, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> Put everything back together, tapped the crank and it still dosnt feel right. This time I noticed some scratching starting to appear on the piston through the ports. Next time I get a chance to work on it I will pull it back completely apart clean it again, and remeasure all tolerances. Something is not right, and exactly what it is has me baffled.



How did you compress the rings when you installed the piston in the jug? Hope you didn't break a ring tip. At least it's an iron liner. If you broke a ring with a chrome/nik lined jug you'd REALY be pissed. A broken ring in your case would just mean a new ring, a quick hone, and possibly a new piston (f it can't be cleaned up).


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## Brian13 (Jul 3, 2010)

The cylinder has a bevel at the end, and the ring compressors wont fit (at least mine wont) so you have to carefully work the piston in. I dont think I broke a ring tip. I will look real close when I take it back apart. The scratches are real light, I just dont know why they are there, the piston is new and the cylinder was just bored. I definitely have a problem just have to find it. Any and all suggestions or ideas let me know I will try them all. I will check the rings when I take it apart.


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## Eccentric (Jul 3, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> The cylinder has a bevel at the end, and the ring compressors wont fit (at least mine wont) so you have to carefully work the piston in. I dont think I broke a ring tip. I will look real close when I take it back apart. The scratches are real light, I just dont know why they are there, the piston is new and the cylinder was just bored. I definitely have a problem just have to find it. Any and all suggestions or ideas let me know I will try them all. I will check the rings when I take it apart.



I've had to make my own 'strap type' ring compressors before. Used whatever materials I had on hand at the time.......including zip ties, and even strips cut from beer cans and 2L soda jugs... 

Make sure you check the ring lands on the piston for damage too...


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## nh-rob (Jul 4, 2010)

Wow what a thread! I started it yesterday on my lunch break, I read some more after work but had to go to a family outing. So I did some more reading after getting home and stayed up late but could not finish it. I awoke early this morning in high hopes of seeing a finished saw when I got to the end. Unfortunately I guess I will have to Wait a little longer though. I hope you get it figured out Brian I am pulling for you. The work you have done so far looks great and I am *VERY* impressed with all of the people on this site that have helped out so much.
Hope you can make some wood chips soon,
Robbie


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## Brian13 (Jul 4, 2010)

Eccentric said:


> I've had to make my own 'strap type' ring compressors before. Used whatever materials I had on hand at the time.......including zip ties, and even strips cut from beer cans and 2L soda jugs...
> 
> Make sure you check the ring lands on the piston for damage too...



When I pull it apart I will check those too. 



nh-rob said:


> Wow what a thread! I started it yesterday on my lunch break, I read some more after work but had to go to a family outing. So I did some more reading after getting home and stayed up late but could not finish it. I awoke early this morning in high hopes of seeing a finished saw when I got to the end. Unfortunately I guess I will have to Wait a little longer though. I hope you get it figured out Brian I am pulling for you. The work you have done so far looks great and I am *VERY* impressed with all of the people on this site that have helped out so much.
> Hope you can make some wood chips soon,
> Robbie



Thanks, A.S. is an amazing community of people. I hope to have it running soon.

BTW, I was wondering is the connecting rod supposed to be in the piston a certain way? Is there a direction or does it matter? I was looking at another and everything looked the same except for the two dots that are for lining up the cap. They were on the opposite side as mine. Could I have installed the connecting rod backwards?


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## Brian13 (Jul 6, 2010)

Had some time this evening and got a good bit done. Took everything apart, lightly honed the cylinder, cleaned everything up, checked all tolerances, lubed everything up and put it back together. Not really sure what the problem was, but it is smooth now. I was a little disappointed when I put the full wrap bars on only to see that it wont work with the bow bar. So I will have to take them off. No big deal though. Still have to look up the flywheel/coil gap, and figure out how the wiring goes back together. I think if I can get spark it should run. Might have to replace a wire that goes from the points to the coil but we will see. I will also have to swap the piece that goes from the throttle on the carb to the trigger. It is a little different then the original. Didnt feel like getting in to that tonight. But its starting to look like a saw again. I forgot how big it was, it looks a lot smaller in pieces.


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## RandyMac (Jul 6, 2010)

Dang, I'd better get those spikes in the mail.


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## cbfarmall (Jul 6, 2010)

I know handlebars are handlebars, but I think full wraps for this series saw 250 thru 550, are the best-looking and most functional full wrap on any saw, ever. And it's not some thin-wall aluminum conduit handle either. They are like roll cages.

Looking good Brian. The black air filter cover will really finish it off.

Chris B.


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## andrethegiant70 (Jul 7, 2010)

Hey, that thing is looking great! Glad it smoothed out on you, we were all on edge there for a bit.


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## ric5141 (Jul 7, 2010)

Looks great


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## leeha (Jul 7, 2010)

Coming along very nice Brian.
Looking good.
The flywheel to coil gap should
be .010


Lee


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## Brian13 (Jul 7, 2010)

RandyMac said:


> Dang, I'd better get those spikes in the mail.


No worries once I get it together I still have to get it to start.



cbfarmall said:


> I know handlebars are handlebars, but I think full wraps for this series saw 250 thru 550, are the best-looking and most functional full wrap on any saw, ever. And it's not some thin-wall aluminum conduit handle either. They are like roll cages.
> 
> Looking good Brian. The black air filter cover will really finish it off.
> 
> Chris B.



Agreed, the full wrap bars give that work horse look and feel. Have to save it for another though, the bow is just to wide.



andrethegiant70 said:


> Hey, that thing is looking great! Glad it smoothed out on you, we were all on edge there for a bit.





ric5141 said:


> Looks great



Thanks I just hope it starts.



leeha said:


> Coming along very nice Brian.
> Looking good.
> The flywheel to coil gap should
> be .010
> ...



Thanks, hope to have the ignition done soon. Hope I have spark when I am done.


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## Brian13 (Jul 7, 2010)

What do you guys use for spark plugs? It had a Champion J8J, and when I was at the hardware store this morning they didnt have one. The closest was a e3 that would replace a DJ8J but was a bit smaller than the one that was in there.


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## blsnelling (Jul 7, 2010)

Looks great Brian. It's coming right along!


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## cpr (Jul 7, 2010)

Try somewhere else. I use Champion DJ8J with no troubles.


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## Brian13 (Jul 7, 2010)

cpr said:


> Try somewhere else. I use Champion DJ8J with no troubles.



Thanks I looked up on e3 spark plugs web site and it referred me to the same one I was looking at, the one that works with DJ8J. Got home hooked everything up and *HOLY CRAP* I have spark. First time ever messing with points and got it first shot. I think Im gonna have me a beer now.


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## sefh3 (Jul 7, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> Thanks I looked up on e3 spark plugs web site and it referred me to the same one I was looking at, the one that works with DJ8J. Got home hooked everything up and *HOLY CRAP* I have spark. First time ever messing with points and got it first shot. I think Im gonna have me a beer now.



Right on!!! It's always nice working on a project and getting it right the first time.


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## Brian13 (Jul 7, 2010)

That made me happy, I was sure I was going to have a problem and have to mess with it for a while. I just hope getting the carb adjusted and starting goes that well!


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## leeha (Jul 7, 2010)

Your moving right along Brian.
You might have your saw running 
before i get my 797G done.



Lee


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## heimannm (Jul 7, 2010)

Good job Brian, glad to see it coming together.

Too bad on the full wrap bars though, do you have a regular bar you can put on there just for the photo op with the full wrap? On the same line, you don't use the standard spike bar (dogs) with the bow bar and the clutch cover may need to be modified to clear the bow as well, as least the one on my 200 was modified to allow the bow to clear.

Did you end up with the McCulloch flat back carburetor with a choke? If so, it should start and run with a new kit in it.






Sorry but I don't have a better picture of the 200 Bow on my computer.

Mark


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## Brian13 (Jul 7, 2010)

Unfortunately I dont have a regular bar, I do want to get one though. I would like a nice roller nose to go with the full wrap and spikes, but I will have to save for a while on that one. And it is the Mac flatback. Its just my ability to rebuild a car that is in question. As for the bar cover, it is the one that was used with the bow, so it must already be modified.


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## heimannm (Jul 7, 2010)

Your hardware store staff didn't look very hard I would guess. Champion has changed their number scheme. I don't have everything to compare but here are a few:

Old CJ8 is now 843-1 and should be standard in the small engine selection
Old CJ6Y is now 858
Old CJ7Y is now 853

In addition, old J8 also crosses to AC old 45 or new 295
CJ8 crosses to AC 255 or XST255 for the fancy iridium or something special plug

I think most of the 80 cc McCulloch saw were normally equipped with the Champion J8J or AC 45M, later models had the AC CS45T or equivalent.

Mark


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## Brian13 (Jul 8, 2010)

When I got home I went to champions web site and didnt really find anything that helped me out. I ended up going to e3's web site(what I normally use anyway) and they have a full listing saw by saw and what plug they use. Goes by manufacturer and then a break down of their saws and what plug they use. Real helpful. 

http://www.e3sparkplugs.com/pdf/smallengine.pdf


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## TRI955 (Jul 8, 2010)

Sure don't think much of those E3's....:dunno: I sure think your Mac deserves better.


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## Brian13 (Jul 8, 2010)

TRI955 said:


> Sure don't think much of those E3's....:dunno: I sure think your Mac deserves better.



What is wrong with e3? And what would be better to use? I dont know what makes one better than another.


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## TRI955 (Jul 8, 2010)

E3's sure seem like another gimmick, like Splitfire's. I could be wrong though, no expert here. I prefer NGK over most others....

Brian, you are doing a really great job with that Mac, keep up the good work and don't let some jack tell you what plug to use!


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## Brian13 (Jul 8, 2010)

Thanks!Ya scared me for a second. The only reason I use them is they had what I needed once and afterward I saw a automotive tv show that did a test on e3. They said there claims were fairly accurate(if its on tv it must be true). Otherwise I dont know much about spark plugs, and get what is convenient.


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## cpr (Jul 8, 2010)

E3s, like the old splitfires are a joke. On the racing stuff we build 70,000 volt plus ignitions with very long spark durations to get the charge fully lit. Makes a nice hot spark that doesn't miss. After all that work, why would I want to split my spark across 4 electrodes and risk diluting their power? 1 is good enough. Index it if you feel the need, but don't bother on the saws.


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## Brian13 (Jul 8, 2010)

I understand what you are saying CPR. I dont have a backround in any sort of mechanics so I am playing a lot of catch up. Thats why I am here.


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## blsnelling (Jul 8, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> I understand what you are saying CPR. I dont have a backround in any sort of mechanics so I am playing a lot of catch up. Thats why I am here.



And you've got to be the best student we've ever seen


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## PLMCRZY (Jul 8, 2010)

Wow great write up and great job!!!

This really inspires me to start restoring old chainsaws.

Anyone want to donate a old beater?


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## Brian13 (Jul 8, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> And you've got to be the best student we've ever seen



Thanks, I appreciate that. I try to keep my ignorance well hidden.


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## Brian13 (Jul 8, 2010)

ClayKann101 said:


> Wow great write up and great job!!!
> 
> This really inspires me to start restoring old chainsaws.
> 
> Anyone want to donate a old beater?



Thanks, be careful though. Once you start its hard to stop!


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## Brian13 (Jul 10, 2010)

Almost finished! I ran out of time today, but it will be done Monday! If anyone could please look at how the carb is hooked up, and let me know if there are any problems. I set the mixture screws at L 1 turn out and H 1 1\8ish. I have know clue really what to do with the lan screw. It took a little bit of tweaking but I got the choke to close all the way when you lock it in. I learned that the fuel line should be put through the carb box first as well as the carb grommet. Doing them last made for a real headache.


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## TRI955 (Jul 10, 2010)

It is hard to believe that is the same saw!!! Great job Brian!!!


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## blsnelling (Jul 10, 2010)

Absolutely unbelievable! And to think I told you to forget it


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## nh-rob (Jul 10, 2010)

Brian,
The saw is looking great! I know I can't be the only one that can't wait to see it with the bow bar on it. I hope you can fire it soon.


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## TRI955 (Jul 10, 2010)

Before...






After....


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## Brian13 (Jul 10, 2010)

Thanks, about the only thing that is the same is my bench is still filthy. I am almost afraid to put gas in it and try to start it. I think it will start up though(fingers are crossed) I dont see any reason why it shouldnt. All I can say is thanks for all the help! I could not have got this far with out the help I have received here.


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## Eccentric (Jul 10, 2010)

Great job Brian. You're almost there!

While I want to see that saw with the bowbar.......................you NEED to get a 'regular' bar on it. Super250s are just *meant* to have a 24-36" hardnose or rollernose with a loop of .404 round chissel on them...


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## thomas72 (Jul 10, 2010)

This is what arboristsite is all about. Good Job!


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## ric5141 (Jul 10, 2010)

Looks awesome Brian. What a great job....Hope it fires right up when you try it!


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## Brian13 (Jul 10, 2010)

Had a couple more minuets before dinner. 99.999% finished. Need to more bolts, swap handle bars, and finish cleaning bow bar. So far the only thing I have found is that the ground out switch does not ground out. I have spark weather it on or in the off position.


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## leeha (Jul 10, 2010)

Brian, You have done a fantastic job.
Looks really nice.
I was a great challenge and you did it.
Can't wait to hear it run.


Lee


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## CM76 (Jul 11, 2010)

Really nice work Brian. It is great to see a project come together after the many hours of hard work and research that has gone into making it happen. You have turned an old battle scarred unit into a showpiece, and I'm sure it is one that all of us McCulloch fans would be proud to have in our collections. You are most definitely a part of the Super 250 club !

Well done, and good luck with the run up.

Regards,

Chris.


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## hoss (Jul 11, 2010)

Brian, yo daddy is going to "have a moment" when he see's the product of all your time and hard work.


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## blsnelling (Jul 11, 2010)

Does your Dad know the condition the saw was in before you started? Had he actually seen it recently? If not, I think I'd show him a picture of the old piece of corrosion, and then, hand him the saw. I love surprising people like that. That will be so rewarding for you.


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## Brian13 (Jul 11, 2010)

Thanks everybody, hope to have a video up tomorrow!



blsnelling said:


> Does your Dad know the condition the saw was in before you started? Had he actually seen it recently? If not, I think I'd show him a picture of the old piece of corrosion, and then, hand him the saw. I love surprising people like that. That will be so rewarding for you.



Yes he did see it right after I dug it out. I had to climb under and around roof trusses. Roof collapsed years ago. He knows how bad of shape its in, and thought it was well beyond repair. It will be nice to prove him wrong.


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## Arrowhead (Jul 11, 2010)

I have been following this thread, just never made a post. You did a GREAT job bringing the old girl back to life. Members here did a great job assisting ya.  I have seen several of these "rebuild" threads, seems like very few ever get finished. Most tear it down and forget about it and never complete the saw. You went beyond what most would do. You should be _very_ proud of what you accomplished. Fantastic job. I can't wait to hear it run.


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## Saw Dr. (Jul 11, 2010)

So does it run?


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## Tzed250 (Jul 11, 2010)

.


I know of a father that should be very proud of his son....



Great job...


.


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## Brian13 (Jul 11, 2010)

Arrowhead said:


> I have been following this thread, just never made a post. You did a GREAT job bringing the old girl back to life. Members here did a great job assisting ya.  I have seen several of these "rebuild" threads, seems like very few ever get finished. Most tear it down and forget about it and never complete the saw. You went beyond what most would do. You should be _very_ proud of what you accomplished. Fantastic job. I can't wait to hear it run.


There was no way it wasnt getting finished. About halfway trough after watching about 100 videos of other Super 250's it became an obsession. I have neglected everything but my kids and work. Every spare second I have had I have been in the garage working. I am very happy to see it as a complete saw, and will be even happier to be able to use it. 


Saw Dr. said:


> So does it run?



Will find out tomorrow as soon as I get off of work. Got my fingers crossed though.


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## Mr. Bow Saw (Jul 11, 2010)

Nice job on your Super 250 Brian.
I hope it starts right up for you tomorrow.


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## cpr (Jul 11, 2010)

Great job Brian!!! I'm pulling for you. No really, these things are hard to start !


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## Eccentric (Jul 11, 2010)

cpr said:


> Great job Brian!!! I'm pulling for you. No really, these things are hard to start !



Yep. Since you're starting 'er dry......................you can get the carb primed by removing the spark plug and pulling 'er over a half dozen or so times (after fueling it up of course) before putting the plug back in for the initial startup. That will pump fuel from the tank and into the carb without you having to fight the compression (which will be even higher than normal as the rings and jug will have a nice coating of the oil you applied when you assembled it). 

No shame in slipping a boot tip in the rear handle before starting this beast. Video of the first running (after all this buildup) is mandatory here by the way...


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## RandyMac (Jul 11, 2010)

cpr said:


> Great job Brian!!! I'm pulling for you. No really, these things are hard to start !



Don't worry Brian, the hard starting is a myth generated for the benefit of the lace panty crowd. Give it three big drips of fuel into carb throat, close choke, with switch off, slowly pull it through a couple three times, then open choke, put switch to on, take up the slack in starter rope and pull it like you mean it. Repeat until your vocabulary dwindles to four letter words.......LOL
It should fire right up, if it doesn't, we will be right here.

your spikes and Super 250 membership package will go out tomorrow.


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## RandyMac (Jul 11, 2010)

Aaron, put on your tin hat, you are typing faster than I think.


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## Eccentric (Jul 11, 2010)

RandyMac said:


> Aaron, put on your tin hat, you are typing faster than I think.



Way ahead of you my friend. 

BTW-that goofy red hat transfers your thoughts to my tinfoil beenie...


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## RandyMac (Jul 11, 2010)

Eccentric said:


> Way ahead of you my friend.
> 
> BTW-that goofy red hat transfers your thoughts to my tinfoil beenie...



Crap!


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## Saw Dr. (Jul 11, 2010)

RandyMac said:


> your spikes and Super 250 membership package will go out tomorrow.



Did he send the initiation fee to you? I haven't seen anything in my mailbox yet.


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## RandyMac (Jul 11, 2010)

Are we going to have to send the "Collector" after him too? I hear Roland still has a flinch reaction leftover.


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## Eccentric (Jul 11, 2010)

*Mac Thugs...*



RandyMac said:


> Are we going to have to send the "Collector" after him too? I hear Roland still has a flinch reaction leftover.



I'm picturing a couple of goons in suits (and corks) knocking on his door. One says, "Boss sez you gotta pay up................else we'll have to get rough wit cha" while the other growls and casualy swings a length of pintail 9/16th chain at his side...opcorn:


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## sefh3 (Jul 11, 2010)

Great JOB Brian!!! Excellant job of posting everything in this build from start to finish. Great Thread. I wish we had more like these. What's next after this one? You need a big ole Homelite to sit next to it.


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## RandyMac (Jul 11, 2010)

The Collector is a natty gent, dressed in Harris tweeds, he wears mirror shades, just to suit his needs, he has been known, to quietly ask please, to this day all collections, have been made with ease.


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## Eccentric (Jul 12, 2010)

RandyMac said:


> The Collector is a natty gent, dressed in Harris tweeds, he wears mirror shades, just to suit his needs, he has been known, to quietly ask please, to this day all collections, have been made with ease.



Very nice. For a second, I thought Humboldt Red was here...


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## vintagestuff (Jul 12, 2010)

On your ignition switch not working, build up of paint where the switch and all the parts connect could be causing the switch to not be properly grounded.


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## Brian13 (Jul 12, 2010)

I guess I could not expect everything to go easy! I put everything together, got the bar on and started to fuel it up and found a pinhole on the bottom corner of the fuel tank. Not that big of a deal easy fix. Just annoyed. Was ready to fir her up. So stand bye. Everything looks good so far minus the pinhole. Got the ignition kill fixed, it was paint not allowing a ground. Gonna patch the hole and when it drys I will put it back together and start again.


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## heimannm (Jul 12, 2010)

Welcome to the world of old McCulloch, we have all experienced a few false starts on similar projects.

Still waiting for the final outcome...

Mark


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## PLMCRZY (Jul 12, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> I guess I could not expect everything to go easy! I put everything together, got the bar on and started to fuel it up and found a pinhole on the bottom corner of the fuel tank. Not that big of a deal easy fix. Just annoyed. Was ready to fir her up. So stand bye. Everything looks good so far minus the pinhole. Got the ignition kill fixed, it was paint not allowing a ground. Gonna patch the hole and when it drys I will put it back together and start again.



Hurry! Post a video to!


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## Brian13 (Jul 12, 2010)

I was expecting difficulties of some sort, just more along the lines of carb tuning or something like that. Unless someone has a quicker way then waiting for JB weld to dry I am going to have to wait till morning before I can try again. I will say this much, it looks mean as can be!


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## sefh3 (Jul 12, 2010)

We have waited this long, what's one more day for a video. The best cure for JB weld is time. Let it sit for some time.


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## Eccentric (Jul 12, 2010)

It's not surprising that you had a pinhole. With that poor saw sitting so long in it's damp tomb..............I'm just glad you didn't loose more magnesium to the white death...


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## Brian13 (Jul 12, 2010)

Patch is drying, and for now some more teasers.


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## sefh3 (Jul 12, 2010)

:jawdrop: Looks great. Can't wait to hear it run. Did you paint the wrap or did you wrap it with something. Hard to see in the pictures.


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## heimannm (Jul 12, 2010)

Hey Brian it certainly looks good even if it never runs again. However, I doubt you will be happy to just look at it...

Make sure the bar oiler is working as those long bars require a good bit of of lubrication.

That handle looks like original equipment galvanized steel polished with use...

Mark


----------



## TRI955 (Jul 12, 2010)

I can't put into words how impressed I am with this build, I told you originally to go for it but you went above and beyond my expectations. You've done good!!


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## Brian13 (Jul 12, 2010)

sefh3 said:


> :jawdrop: Looks great. Can't wait to hear it run. Did you paint the wrap or did you wrap it with something. Hard to see in the pictures.





heimannm said:


> Hey Brian it certainly looks good even if it never runs again. However, I doubt you will be happy to just look at it...
> 
> Make sure the bar oiler is working as those long bars require a good bit of of lubrication.
> 
> ...


The handle bar is the one that was on it with the original rubber coating removed due to it flaking off with massive amounts of rust. I used it in a pinch, because the full wrap wouldnt work. I still need to finish cleaning it and protect it somehow from rusting again. And the manual oiler does work and I think the auto will too.



TRI955 said:


> I can't put into words how impressed I am with this build, I told you originally to go for it but you went above and beyond my expectations. You've done good!!


Thank you, this is by far my biggest undertaking! I am new to mechanics in general but with the birth of my twins, I still wanted a hobby, but one that would keep me closer to home. Originally it was supposed to be a hobby that might make me some money. LOL, that hasnt quite panned out. Just become another expensive obsession. But I am glad things have turned out the way they did. This is kind of a family legend. I have heard about this saw from my father and both uncles on my dads side for about the last 20 or so years. I ready to see what all the fuss is about. And I greatly appreciate the help, support, and complements along the way. Cant wait to get that video up.


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## Mr. Bow Saw (Jul 12, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> Patch is drying, and for now some more teasers.



The saw does look great Brian.


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## nh-rob (Jul 12, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> Patch is drying, and for now some more teasers.



Now that was the picture that I have been waiting for. Now I am in suspense waiting for you to start it so you can tell all of us what it is like to cut wood with that beast and its awesome looking bar.


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## Brian13 (Jul 12, 2010)

RandyMac said:


> Don't worry Brian, the hard starting is a myth generated for the benefit of the lace panty crowd. Give it three big drips of fuel into carb throat, close choke, with switch off, slowly pull it through a couple three times, then open choke, put switch to on, take up the slack in starter rope and pull it like you mean it. Repeat until your vocabulary dwindles to four letter words.......LOL
> It should fire right up, if it doesn't, we will be right here.
> 
> your spikes and Super 250 membership package will go out tomorrow.


Thank you Randy, just have to find a bar.



sefh3 said:


> Great JOB Brian!!! Excellant job of posting everything in this build from start to finish. Great Thread. I wish we had more like these. What's next after this one? You need a big ole Homelite to sit next to it.


As for next project I dont know. Got out bid last night on a big gear drive Mac. So for right now Im just going to keep looking around until I find something.


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## heimannm (Jul 12, 2010)

If you want to practice on my dime, I can send saws and parts and you can do all the work. I won't even charge you for the learning opportunity...I might even spring for the paint!


Mark


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## cpr (Jul 12, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> Got out bid last night on a big gear drive Mac. So for right now Im just going to keep looking around until I find something.



Wasn't a Super 55A on ebay was it? Sorry, my bad...


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## Brian13 (Jul 12, 2010)

heimannm said:


> If you want to practice on my dime, I can send saws and parts and you can do all the work. I won't even charge you for the learning opportunity...I might even spring for the paint!
> 
> 
> Mark


Shoot me an email with what you have in mind.



cpr said:


> Wasn't a Super 55A on ebay was it? Sorry, my bad...


I dont know what it was. Title was Old Mcculloch chainsaw needs restoring.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300443583256&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT


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## heimannm (Jul 12, 2010)

Super 55?

Here's mine...can't remember right now if it is a 55, S55, or S55A






Mark


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## Mr. Bow Saw (Jul 12, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> .
> 
> 
> I dont know what it was. Title was Old Mcculloch chainsaw needs restoring.
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300443583256&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT



The bottom of the page where the Questions and answers are.

Q: can you tell me the model number?its stamped on the bottom.should read 44 or55 or s 55....thanks
A: Hello, the bottom is stamped S-55-486.
Jul 09, 2010


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## Brian13 (Jul 12, 2010)

Didnt even see those questions. But thats it then, dont feel so bad knowing where its going now.


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## Brian13 (Jul 12, 2010)

BTW, Mark your garage looks better and more equipped than the dealers shops around here. That is nice looking saw, does it run?


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## bryan70546 (Jul 12, 2010)

I was bidding on the 55s , But had to make a choice so instead i got this one.
Brian13 you did a great job . I want to hopefully restore the 250 i won off ebay to look as good as yours.
Bryan


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## cpr (Jul 12, 2010)

heimannm said:


> Super 55?
> 
> Here's mine...can't remember right now if it is a 55, S55, or S55A
> 
> ...



Not sure. Muffler like Super, but starter cover like D55. Macs are such a box of chocolates...


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## ross_scott (Jul 13, 2010)

Well done Brian I have been watching this thread with alot of interest. I am very pleased that you have got the project this far and within a stones throw of starting the old girl up. Good luck for the start up day and hope she bursts into life for ya, maybe you should get your dad around for the starting of the saw for its first time in 20 or 30 years so you two can share the moment together.


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## Brian13 (Jul 13, 2010)

OK.....she came back to life, but not without one hell of a fight. The starter spring broke on me then I could not get it to hook properly, the handle broke on me and will have to be replaced. Both the spring and handle were new. And the oiler for some reason keeps dripping oil. Its got the high output oiler right now. I dont know why it keeps dripping. But there is a continuous flow out the oiler output hole. She is along way from cutting wood still, but I got her to run and will have a video posted shortly. If anybody knows where to start looking on the oiler issue pleas let me know. As for my original question "Is this Super 250 too far gone", I guess the answer is no. But it was pretty freakin close! Video will be up as soon as I can get it off the camera on to youtube and on hear.


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## blsnelling (Jul 13, 2010)

Absolutely awesome. Can't wait to see it!!!


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## Brian13 (Jul 13, 2010)

Sorry for the B-movie shaky camera cinematography. There is a reason I dont work in Hollywood LOL.


<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/OQPbxhP6lxw&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/OQPbxhP6lxw&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>


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## Eccentric (Jul 13, 2010)

Congratulations! Well done. One giant step closer to cutting with it. For some reason the video link/thumbnail doesn't come up for me. Just a white box...


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## brokenbudget (Jul 13, 2010)

welcome to marks man house


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## Eccentric (Jul 13, 2010)

brokenbudget said:


> welcome to marks man house



You saw that too eh? My girls also do stuff like that with fridge magnets...


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## blsnelling (Jul 13, 2010)

Looks like it's idling well and has decent throttle response. I'd say a few heat cycles like you're doing is a good idea on a new bore and piston. I'm really happy for you! You worked hard for this and you succeeded!!!


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## blsnelling (Jul 13, 2010)

BTW, what was your pulse after it started? I bet it was a little high from anxiety! It looked like you were scared to death to rev it up at all, *and I don't blame you!* Like I mentioned, A few heat cycles are a good thing before you do. I'd then set it quite fat and make a few cuts with it, leaning it out as needed to run right. I stay away from WOT RPMs for a while yet.


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## Brian13 (Jul 13, 2010)

blsnelling said:


> BTW, what was your pulse after it started? I bet it was a little high from anxiety! It looked like you were scared to death to rev it up at all, *and I don't blame you!* Like I mentioned, A few heat cycles are a good thing before you do. I'd then set it quite fat and make a few cuts with it, leaning it out as needed to run right. I stay away from WOT RPMs for a while yet.



I have been scared to death for about a week now that this would be all for nothing! It will be a few tanks I think before I loose that anxiety. I have to fix the oil leak before I go any further. I have to say though I have never heard anything like that in person. The videos just dont do the sound justice. I am definitely hooked.


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## cpr (Jul 13, 2010)

Awesome, congrats. You're 100% right on the sound, it is very addicting.

Great job.


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## 8433jeff (Jul 13, 2010)

*Getting closer!!! Almost there!*

When you get DONE (DONE is when your pulse doesn't jump nearly so high and you're not worried about it falling to pieces before your very eyes) start on the next one. You can be proud of what you've done already, cause I would have _*never*_ attempted it. I might have restored one like it, but not that one, in that condition, maybe cause I went through this last year with a tractor for my dad. I slept a lot better after that left the shop, and I still smile a little (OK, a lot) when I see him or my daughter on it.


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## Brian13 (Jul 13, 2010)

Thats the only reason I never quit. It is a family legend. And I hope that I have done a good enough job on this rebuild that I can someday watch my little ones use it. And that sound....I just dont know what it is. I love the sound of a chainsaw running, but this is just different. I cant explain it but I could just keep on listening to it all day long.


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## Dan_IN_MN (Jul 13, 2010)

:yourock:  :yourock: 

:greenchainsaw:  :yourock:

There.............I think I said enough!

Great job!


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## Urbicide (Jul 13, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> Thats the only reason I never quit. It is a family legend. And I hope that I have done a good enough job on this rebuild that I can someday watch my little ones use it. And that sound....I just dont know what it is. I love the sound of a chainsaw running, but this is just different. I cant explain it but I could just keep on listening to it all day long.



Great job Brian!:yourock: Great thought about your kids eventually using the saw. I hope that it happens and your Old Man gets to see it too.

Now I don't know if you are aware of the rules of responsible chain saw ownership or not. All we need to be concerned with for the moment is Rule #1:* Never, ever loan out your saws!* You have a lot invested in your new family heirloom. It would a shame for something tragic to happen to it.



Vince


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## nh-rob (Jul 13, 2010)

I love the sound of that saw! It sure seams to run good and I know you will get all the quirks out of it real soon.


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## Brian13 (Jul 13, 2010)

Urbicide said:


> Great job Brian!:yourock: Great thought about your kids eventually using the saw. I hope that it happens and your Old Man gets to see it too.
> 
> Now I don't know if you are aware of the rules of responsible chain saw ownership or not. All we need to be concerned with for the moment is Rule #1:* Never, ever loan out your saws!* You have a lot invested in your new family heirloom. It would a shame for something tragic to happen to it.
> 
> ...



I have read the horror stories of what happens when you loan out a saw. I have already have had a friend ask to borrow one of my saws to flush cut a stump in his yard. I told him I would be more than happy to come over cut it for him. My mother actually told me I should sell it. That wont happen while Im alive! Guess she dosnt understand the work involved in bringing this back to life.


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## heimannm (Jul 13, 2010)

Congratulations Brian on a job well done. From here on out it is just working out a few kinks. 

Go back as study the IPL carefully, you will see a spring and a ball-check valve. I suspect you will find some crud in there somewhere that is not letting the check valve seat and thus leaking oil. The oiler is adjustable as well so if you have the cover off anyway try reducing the output by turning the screw clockwise a bit.

You have come a very long way, just be patient and work through the last few details with the same approach and you will have that saw back in tip top shape.

Mark


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## Brian13 (Jul 13, 2010)

I will pull it apart and take a look. It is a steady flow on or off. I have time, I need to order a new pull handle and chain. Its just good to hear it fire to life.


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## boda65 (Jul 13, 2010)

Brian, congratulations!! I've been following this thread for awhile and I am thrilled for you. You have done a great job, as well as made some new friends. I certainly wouldn't have attempted this with a saw in that condition. That is something to be proud of. Can't wait to see the video when I get home, work has some kind of filter that blocks most videos.
Jim


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## leeha (Jul 13, 2010)

I new ya could do it Brian.
That ole corroded piece of 
magnesium looked like hell
but you did a great job and 
tackled a great challenge.
She sounds pretty damn good.

Big Congrats on a nice thread 
and nice job.


Lee


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## andrethegiant70 (Jul 13, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> Thats the only reason I never quit. It is a family legend. And I hope that I have done a good enough job on this rebuild that I can someday watch my little ones use it. And that sound....I just dont know what it is. I love the sound of a chainsaw running, but this is just different. I cant explain it but I could just keep on listening to it all day long.



Rep for you, Buck-o! Hell of an effort. That thing ought to be good for another 40 years. The old Macs have such a cool clatter at idle. The aesthetics on your saw are really nice.

You should do another one.


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## Brian13 (Jul 13, 2010)

Thank you guys, I am very grateful for the help I have received. I owe many here a great thanks!! I really hope to be able to help others as I have been helped here. If any of you guys are ever down here in Florida, at the very least owe a beer or two! I can not thank you guys enough for the help and support, and I am sure only those reading this know how exited I was to here her sputter for the first time in over 25 years.


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## Brian13 (Jul 13, 2010)

andrethegiant70 said:


> Rep for you, Buck-o! Hell of an effort. That thing ought to be good for another 40 years. The old Macs have such a cool clatter at idle. The aesthetics on your saw are really nice.
> 
> You should do another one.



I am hooked for sure. There will most definitely be more. Thinking maybe a gear drive next or a Kart engine swap.


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## Jed1124 (Jul 13, 2010)

This was the best threadS I have ever read from start to finish. CONGRATULATIONS!!!


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## Mastermind (Jul 13, 2010)

It's too cool to see and hear that saw run. I would have never even attempted what you have accomplished. Great job, Brian.

This thread is a great example of what this site and the folks here are all about.


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## Mr. Bow Saw (Jul 14, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> Sorry for the B-movie shaky camera cinematography. There is a reason I dont work in Hollywood LOL.
> 
> 
> <object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/OQPbxhP6lxw&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/OQPbxhP6lxw&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>



Nice work Brian, The Saw sounds good.
You started with a saw in real bad shape and now it looks great.


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## ross_scott (Jul 14, 2010)

Brian I am totally impressed with your effort and hard work you put into this saw and a big thumbs up to all of the AS members who were kind enough to help Brian with his project by giving advice and doing little bits for him to help the rebuild along. That saw it a beauty Brian hope your dad will like seeing and hearing it again. :chainsawguy::kilt:


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## ric5141 (Jul 14, 2010)

She sounds SWEET!!! Awesome work 

:greenchainsaw:


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## Kingsley (Jul 14, 2010)

Glad to see you got it running. I thought this was going to be you posting a couple questions then fadeing away never knowing what happened to you or the saw. You have really impressed me with how you have stuck with it and kept us all up to date. I was reading your progress daily. Rep sent.


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## gmax (Jul 14, 2010)

That was a good effort restoring that 250 considering the condition it was in


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## heimannm (Jul 14, 2010)

Brian, I went back and read through the first 10 pages or so again just as a bit of a refresher....really glad to see you stayed with it and I expect you are pretty happy about it as well.

My first attempt at a McCulloch 250 rebuild (30 years ago) ended up as a box full of parts that I was able to trade in for my first new saw, Jonsered 621.

Fast forward about 26 years and the Jonsered finally pooped a PTO side bearing so I was back in the saw rebuilding game, broke the case since I hadn't discovered the expertise available here.

Now I have a bit more experience with several different saws and models and find I learn something almost everytime I look at AS.

I hope you continue to work with the Super 250 until you have it just right, then move along to the next challenge. Keep us posted (I know you will) and continue to enjoy.

Thanks again for your well documented account, and feel free to PM some photo's of the finished project to a few of the nay sayers that chimed in early. I expect they will all have gained a great deal of respect for you by now. 

Mark


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## Brian13 (Jul 14, 2010)

Saw Dr. said:


> Well I would say that rebuilding that saw into a runner is a pretty tall order. As with anything man-made, it is repairiable. Just a function of how much time and money you want to sink into it. I would say you will have _*at least *_$250 into getting that saw into running shape. And that is counting on the fine folks here to set you up with some things you'll need. Super 250's are pretty good runners for that era of saw (see my avtar.) They are not as common as regular 250's, but they are not too hard to find. You need to decide how much $ you want to spend on it. You might want to find a regular MAC 200/250/300/380/450/550 to run for a few minutes. That should be enough to prove to you that you won't be running that saw very much even if you do rebuild it. I actually got frisky and felled a medium oak with my Super recently, but I bucked it with a newer saw.
> 
> Let my know if there is anything I can do to help you out. Even if it means taking that bow bar off your hands.





leeha said:


> Brian, You have nothing to loose but time.
> As long as it doesn't turn into a financial matter.
> Sometimes for me the worse the saw the more
> it becomes a good challenge.
> ...



I think these two posts were the ones that convinced me to give it a go and see where I could get. I am definitely proud of what I have accomplished and will keep working on this till it is right, and post a video of it in some wood. I am really glad that I am stubborn! I have learned a lot about saw building in general and my experience with this saw will definitely help me in the future. Cant wait to get her set up right and make some chips fly!


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## Saw Dr. (Jul 14, 2010)

Saw Dr. said:


> Well I would say that rebuilding that saw into a runner is a pretty tall order. As with anything man-made, it is repairiable. Just a function of how much time and money you want to sink into it. I would say you will have _*at least *_$250 into getting that saw into running shape. And that is counting on the fine folks here to set you up with some things you'll need. Super 250's are pretty good runners for that era of saw (see my avtar.) They are not as common as regular 250's, but they are not too hard to find. You need to decide how much $ you want to spend on it. You might want to find a regular MAC 200/250/300/380/450/550 to run for a few minutes. That should be enough to prove to you that you won't be running that saw very much even if you do rebuild it. I actually got frisky and felled a medium oak with my Super recently, but I bucked it with a newer saw.
> 
> Let my know if there is anything I can do to help you out. Even if it means taking that bow bar off your hands.





leeha said:


> Brian, You have nothing to loose but time.
> As long as it doesn't turn into a financial matter.
> Sometimes for me the worse the saw the more
> it becomes a good challenge.
> ...





Brian13 said:


> I think these two posts were the ones that convinced me to give it a go and see where I could get. I am definitely proud of what I have accomplished and will keep working on this till it is right, and post a video of it in some wood. I am really glad that I am stubborn! I have learned a lot about saw building in general and my experience with this saw will definitely help me in the future. Cant wait to get her set up right and make some chips fly!



Glad to be part of the push to try rebuilding it. So how'd we do on my guess of $250 to get it going?


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## Brian13 (Jul 14, 2010)

Saw Dr. said:


> Glad to be part of the push to try rebuilding it. So how'd we do on my guess of $250 to get it going?



Not far off, not counting any tools I got for this build I would say I was right in that range +/- 25 bucks. With a little more experiance I probley could have kept it lower, but learning isnt free.


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## Brian13 (Jul 15, 2010)

Mark you were right on with the ball and check valve. I pulled the oiler apart to clean inspect and look for any problems, and found no ball. Must have not known it was there and lost it when I had it apart the first time. I had another to steal parts from and put it back together. Also found it was leaking where it joins to the fuel tank, so I tightened those bolts up. It was leaking from there following the manual oiling rod and fuel line into the air box. Probably not good. So far everything is back together full of oil and fuel and letting it sit so I can see if there are any leaks. So far so good. Went to my local Stihl dealer to get a chain, and because its an odd size he dosnt want to order it for me. He said he can only order it in 25 ft lengths and has to order the links in minimum of 50. So for now I am getting that chain sharpened. Should be ready to cut some wood next week, as long as I dont run across any other problems. I have a friend with a pine tree that has blown over and he wants it cut up. Also checked the piston while I was working on it, and everything looked good. No scoring or anything abnormal I could see. 

Hear is the oiler with all the pieces set up next to where they go. Notice no ball next to the spring.






This is what should be there.


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## TRI955 (Jul 15, 2010)

Brian13 said:


>



Mom is going to be pissed when she comes home and see's that on her good bath towel!!!!:jawdrop:


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## Brian13 (Jul 15, 2010)

TRI955 said:


> Mom is going to be pissed when she comes home and see's that on her good bath towel!!!!:jawdrop:



The wife cant get pissed, those are my own shop towles. Dont even wash them at home. I can get them as dirty and nasty as I like.

I solved the oil problem, and have no leaks in oil or fuel. But in solving that problem I found another. It will fire up and idle for a few seconds but then the idle will start to rise and then die like its starved for fuel. I also noticed there was a little bit of fuel in the air box. What should I start to look for? I can put the choke on and it will fire right back up, take choke off and the same happens again. Not sure if its in the carb or in another part of the fuel system or maybe even an air leak.


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## Eccentric (Jul 15, 2010)

Sounds like a carb problem to me. I can't remember.....did you rebuild the carb? I'd have to hear it running to give a better diagnosis. For some reason your video links don't work for me.


As to the chain issue...............don't bother with that Stihl dealer. Call Baileys. They'll spin up a loop of chain for you and charge by the link. Just count the drivers on your old chain and tell them the #. Depending on the chain, the cost is around $.22-$.28 per link. MUCH cheaper than what your dealer is quoting you I'll bet. You'll have a custom loop of chain in your mailbox within a few days of the call....

Baileys sells their own brand chain as well as Oregon. I've had great success with both.


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## Brian13 (Jul 15, 2010)

The carb was rebuilt with the full kit. Welch plugs, meatering neadle, diaphram gaskets, and o-rings for mixture screws. Unless maybe something plug one of the jets from the fuel going through everything for the first time I am clueless as to what the problem would be. Thanks for the Bailys suggestion. I will get a new chain from there.


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## heimannm (Jul 15, 2010)

It does sound like a fuel problem but it's hard to say if it's in the tank/pick up line, air leak in the fuel line somewhere, or in the carburetor.

Try starting it a few times and make sure it is not just some air in the fuel line, don't race it if it is running lean or you can cause some scoring. 

Junk in the carburetor could also be blocking fuel flow, I think I'd start there if running it a bit does not work. While you are in there make sure the metering needle/lever is set correctly.

Mark


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## Brian13 (Jul 15, 2010)

I had set the metering level at about .004 or .005". I went your Mac carb rebuild thread and noticed that you sealed some holes in the diaphragm and gasket, I did not do that. Could that be a cause? It will basicly run for a couple of seconds and then idle up like its starving for fuel and die. Then a couple of pull with it on choke and the same cycle starts again. Almost like the couple of pulls put enough fuel in the carb for it to run a couple of seconds but after it cant keep up.


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## Urbicide (Jul 15, 2010)

I'll toss my $.02 in the ring. If I recall correctly, you did not use any sealant around the welch plugs? Some of the older Macs (pre-dating your S250) had problems with fuel puddling. McCulloch tried some type of wick in the 3rd port, if I am not mistaken, and eventually went to a sheet metal fuel deflector that mounted between the reed and the reed clamp. The part # for the deflector is 66274. Your saw should have it but just in case....


I just went back & re read your description of some fuel being in the air box, not in the crank case. Wonder if the fuel is spitting back from the carb throat? Your Mac might be puking at the taste of modern gasoline.  Some Mac carbs had a fuel collector on them. Is the reed sealing properly? Is the fuel hose clamp positioned properly on the carb fuel inlet? In one pic it appeared as if the clamp might be a tad out too far on the fuel hose.


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## Brian13 (Jul 15, 2010)

Thanks for your .02$. It does have the fuel deflector, but I didnt seal the welch plugs. I pounded them pretty flat, but its still possible they didnt seal right. I was under the impression that would cause more of a flooding symptom though. I could be very well wrong about that. I will look at them closely when I take it back apart.


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## heimannm (Jul 15, 2010)

The puddling problem was actually in the crankcase which would act like a too rich condition when you came off high speeds and hit the throttle again, Brian is describing a lean condition.

If you are not leaking fuel in the air box I doubt it is an issue with the extra holes in the diaphragm.

Check the carburetor adjustments again, if it is still leaning out then looks like it's time to go in to the carburetor again.

Mark


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## barneyrb (Jul 15, 2010)

I haven't posted in this thread because I thought all along you were wasting time on a saw that would never run again. Boy, did you show me and it looks great, fantastic job. Congrats on a great job.


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## Brian13 (Jul 15, 2010)

There was some fuel in the air box. Not a lot, but there was some there, and I had wiped the whole air box clean before I tried starting it.


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## Brian13 (Jul 15, 2010)

barneyrb said:


> I haven't posted in this thread because I thought all along you were wasting time on a saw that would never run again. Boy, did you show me and it looks great, fantastic job. Congrats on a great job.



Thank you, I would have thought the same if it were another person. Its great to hear it run though!


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## heimannm (Jul 15, 2010)

A little "spit back" from the carburetor is quite ordinary if the reed valves are not sealing perfectly. A drip from the bottom of the carburetor is indicative of a leak somewhere. 

Mark


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## Brian13 (Jul 15, 2010)

It was enough to form a small puddle. Maybe dime size. I will try running it again and see if it looks like spit back or a leak.


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## leeha (Jul 15, 2010)

Brian, Those primers can go to crap as well.
When they do they can leak fuel. I have a saw 
that runs great but if you let it sit for a half 
hour there will be fuel in the air box so i have to
drain the gas tank after use everytime. A PITA.


Lee


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## heimannm (Jul 15, 2010)

The flat back used in the Super 250's like Brians's has a choke instead of a primer.

Mark


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## Brian13 (Jul 15, 2010)

Just went out in the garage to check in the air box to see if I could see where the fuel came from. There looked to be more fuel then when I put it up this afternoon, and it looks like the excess diaphragm and gasket that stick out from the carb is wet. So it looks like I need to seal those holes I think. I also noticed a substantial puddle of oil under the saw, guess I still have a problem. So I have to track that down. I was hoping not to have to take the tank off but I think I am going to have to, to find the leak.


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## blsnelling (Jul 15, 2010)

Is it the original carb that we cleaned and rebuilt up on the saw?


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## Brian13 (Jul 15, 2010)

Thats the one! Didnt think that would ever see use again. I am not exactly sure what the problem is, but I dont think it will be to hard to fix.


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## blsnelling (Jul 15, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> Thats the one! Didnt think that would ever see use again. I am not exactly sure what the problem is, but I dont think it will be to hard to fix.



That's amazing!


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## Brian13 (Jul 15, 2010)

I cant thank you enough for cleaning that up. That is the whole reason this saw got put aside so many years ago. My dad couldnt find a rebuild kit back in the 80's for it. I have all the hard stuff done now, just working out all the kinks.


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## blsnelling (Jul 15, 2010)

You're more than welcome. I'm tickled to have had a small part in this incredible rebuild.


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## Brian13 (Jul 15, 2010)

For me anyway, it was a little more than a small part. And I greatly appreciate it!


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## ross_scott (Jul 16, 2010)

This topic deserves the thread of the year award. Brian I sure hope that you manage to sort out all the leaks you have worked long and hard on the saw my fingers are crossed for ya bud


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## Brian13 (Jul 16, 2010)

Thank you ross scott, I am glad to hear this will be useful for others. I think I might have all the kinks worked out. The bar oil was coming from where the tank meets the fuel tank. I tried a couple different things and still kept leaking. So I eventually used some permetex around the paper gasket. I will either still have a leak or a block passage, or both. I am hoping it will just be fixed. I think I have the carb fixed. I have to give things to time to dry so Sunday I will see whats up.


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## Brian13 (Jul 18, 2010)

Ok I think I have her back from the dead, and off life support. Time for rehab. I have been running it for a bit not holding it wot but just short blips. I am new to tuning motors so I was wondering if you guys could listen to it and see how it sounds. I have the bar oil fixed and it seems like the carb is working fine. I am going out to cut with it tomorrow, any tips for running it. I know its pretty rich on the high, maybe to rich. I know some Macs are tuned while cutting, is this one of them? I am not good at tuning and have trouble hearing the 4 stroking. So any tip appreciated.

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/OVQhMZehqC8&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/OVQhMZehqC8&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>


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## heimannm (Jul 18, 2010)

I wish more of mine would start and idle like that, sounds wonderful.

You didn't run it up enough to get a good sense of rich or lean on top but from the way it accelerates and returns to idle you can't be too far off.

That has turned out to be one very very nice project saw.

Mark


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## Mastermind (Jul 18, 2010)

Well Brian it seems to be running great. But without hearing it at WOT I can't tell if it's tuned right there.

The four-stroking sound is not hard to distinguish, it sounds as though it missing a bit at unloaded WOT.


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## Brian13 (Jul 18, 2010)

Thanks, Im still scared to hold it wide open. I am pretty sure its rich, because the exhaust is wet. I dont want to open it up with no load just yet though. My main question was about idle.Setting it up I took what I have read and started at 1 turn out on low and about 1 1\8 ish and then played around till idle sounded about right.


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## thomas72 (Jul 18, 2010)

You really will not know if it is rich until you start to cut some wood. It is your saw and if you feel safe babying it that is fine, but I do not with my saws. After a rebuild I let it run a bit until it warms up then go out and start cutting and tuning. I break the saw in as soon as possible. If your saw has problems it is going to show it regardless if you baby it or not. However, you did a good job bringing it back from nothing.


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## cpr (Jul 18, 2010)

I'd say your idle is about right. Sounds good and comes off when you throttle it without any stumbles. Hard to say on the high jet until you cut or run it wot.

Hey, go after that 1-70 on ebay tonight for your next project. I already have one and I'm getting filled up with these 87cc saws. I know you mentioned a kart saw, that 1-70 has an MC-10 in it, albeit with slightly less aggressive porting, but the removable head and all the fixings are there!


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## Brian13 (Jul 18, 2010)

Tomorrow I will open it up in the wood. I just dont want to open it up with no load just yet. I will have a video of it cutting tomorrow. I saw that 1-70, I already have a 1-41 and 10-10 on the way. Couldnt help it, my inpatients got the best of me. I am still going to see what it does though.


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## Brian13 (Jul 18, 2010)

Was just outside a little while ago getting my saws ready for tomorrow, I topped off the Super 250 and set it down. I went back into the garage to start some laundry and noticed a strong gas smell. I looked and the Super 250 is sitting in a puddle of gas. It was all coming from the carburetor. I couldnt tell if it was coming from the throat or the gaskets. It was all wet, and now the paint is bubbling from the gas sitting in there. It did not do this earlier when it set for a couple of hours. Do I have another problem with the carb or did I have to much built up pressure?


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## Brian13 (Jul 18, 2010)

I went back into the garage to open it up a bit to ventelate and was looking in the air box and there was a definete puddle in the throat of the carb. When sitting before there was no problem. After I filled it all the way is when the problem started. And once I drained the fuel it stopped leaking. Would you guys recomend trying it out tomorrow or leave it at home until I can take the carb back apart?


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## cpr (Jul 18, 2010)

Bummer. I have no idea. The only 2 mac carbed saws I have had are no longer a problem... I sold the 2-10 and converted the 795 to a Tilly HL.

I'm at a loss for guidance, but given how far you've come, I'd have to say pull it down one more time. No sense risking a fire.

BTW, that 1-70 had your name on it for that price. Mine, too, but I had another auction I was working on...


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## Brian13 (Jul 19, 2010)

cpr said:


> Bummer. I have no idea. The only 2 mac carbed saws I have had are no longer a problem... I sold the 2-10 and converted the 795 to a Tilly HL.
> 
> I'm at a loss for guidance, but given how far you've come, I'd have to say pull it down one more time. No sense risking a fire.
> 
> BTW, that 1-70 had your name on it for that price. Mine, too, but I had another auction I was working on...



Yes it did, but when the auction ended I was cleaning up gas in the garage. The whole house smelled of gas. I forgot all about it until I was finally finished in the garage. By then it was already over.


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## heimannm (Jul 19, 2010)

Leaking out of the carburetor as you describe seems to indicate the needle and seat are not sealing properly. The fact that it did it when you filled the tank (I assume it was warm from running besides) created some extra pressure in the tank the forced it through the needle. If you didn't replace the needle already consider that, at the very least take the carburetor down and make sure it's clean and try to improve the seating of the needle by "lapping" it a bit with the carburetor apart.

Bob Johnson had the needles last time I checked as they are standard on several different models of Walbro carburetors.

Mark


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## 8433jeff (Jul 19, 2010)

Brian, the way that carb was corroded might mean the seat where the needle sits may be FUBAR-if so the needle won't stop the fuel. You may (I doubt it) be able to see if its pitted but I'd try a different carb if I had one. I think there is a thread somewhere about pressure checking carbs and if I knew how to find it I'd tell you...


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## blsnelling (Jul 19, 2010)

I was thinking the needle and seat as well. Was the seat replaced?


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## heimannm (Jul 19, 2010)

I don't think there is a replaceable seat in the McCulloch carburetors, just the casting of the carburetor body.

I have had a few where lapping a new needle solved the leaking problem including my 7-10 with the SDC and the 840 with the Mac 6 type Walbro carburetors.

Mark


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## Saw Dr. (Jul 19, 2010)

Hey Mark, didn't you run into a few of those carb kits that had a hole drilled in the wrong spot in the diaphragm? I believe the hole was placed right at the sealing flange on the metering chamber? The one on my 550 leaked at first, but mine was trash under the needle. I wonder if Brian blew out the fuel lines before he put them on. I have been bitten by that one more than once. Also wonder if the fuel filter is a new one. Fragments of old filter material would probably hold the needle open enough to leak.


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## heimannm (Jul 19, 2010)

Hey Doc, I know Brian went through the McCulloch carburetor thread pretty carefully and should have caught a problem like the hole early on. This one seems to have come up sort of "after the fact" which leads you to believe it is still some junk in the system holding the needle open, or maybe just a seat that needs a little lapping to achieve a good seal.

I suppose you have been up in the air a lot this year? I know I have been...

Mark


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## Brian13 (Jul 19, 2010)

OK I figured it out I think. I made a huge mistake!!!! I did replace the needle when I rebuilt the carb, but when going back over and reading Mark Mac car thread thats where my trouble started. I went off a friends advice and used Permetex ultra black to seal the diaphragm gasket holes. I woke up early this morning before I left to pull the carb apart and see and found jellified gasket maker. So I screwed it up. I am going to chalk it up to learning and start reading more about the materials I am using. I also noticed that the large welch plug didnt seem like it was sealing all the way. So my question is now, I was told by a mechanic at my local Stihl shop to use fingernail polish to seal welch plugs, could I use that or should I track down some of that Indian Head Gasket Shelac. I think that will fix my problems. I hope! I didnt get to use it today, but I did get to use my 044 that I rebuilt. It cut great. There are still two trees that are pushed over from wind on my friends property so as soon as I can get all the kinks worked out I will have a video of her cutting.


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## heimannm (Jul 19, 2010)

While it is always a pain to have to re-do anything, there are times when at least is it very gratifying to find a problem and be able to fix it.

Mark


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## Brian13 (Jul 19, 2010)

heimannm said:


> While it is always a pain to have to re-do anything, there are times when at least is it very gratifying to find a problem and be able to fix it.
> 
> Mark



I know its all part of the learning process but its an even bigger pain when your causing your own problems.


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## TRI955 (Jul 19, 2010)

I do my welch plugs dry, not too sure how well finger nail polish and Indian Head will hold up with todays fuel. That ethanol is not very nice.....


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## Brian13 (Jul 23, 2010)

Found some Indian Head Gasket Shellac and fixed the carb as per Marks thread. Fired it up today started dry in about 5 pulls. And several hours later the air box is dry as a whistle. So tomorrow is the big day. Today was my boys first birthday and tomorrow is their party witch my father will be attending. So for the first time in 25 years my dad will hear and see it run. Im kinda exited, kinda like being a kid waiting for Christmas on Christmas Eve.


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## Rounder (Jul 23, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> Found some Indian Head Gasket Shellac and fixed the carb as per Marks thread. Fired it up today started dry in about 5 pulls. And several hours later the air box is dry as a whistle. So tomorrow is the big day. Today was my boys first birthday and tomorrow is their party witch my father will be attending. So for the first time in 25 years my dad will hear and see it run. Im kinda exited, kinda like being a kid waiting for Christmas on Christmas Eve.



Once again, great job, glad that you stuck with it, tomorrow should be a fun day for you - Sam


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## nh-rob (Jul 23, 2010)

I wonder how many times you will start it before the party just to make sure it will start when your dad gets there. I know I would have to do many test and might not even sleep good just thinking about it. Best of luck and I hope it your dad has a huge smile.


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## cpr (Jul 23, 2010)

Good luck, friend. I'd love to be a fly on the wall for that moment.


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## Brian13 (Jul 23, 2010)

Thanks, I feel bad, I am more exited about that then the birthday party. But their birthday was today and I spent all day playing with them. On a side thought I just realized I bought a Tonka Truck for their birthday present witch is yellow and black. This yellow cad has penetrated my life deeper than even I realized LOL.


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## hoss (Jul 23, 2010)

cpr said:


> good luck, friend. I'd love to be a fly on the wall for that moment.



x2


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## ross_scott (Jul 24, 2010)

so did you start it up for your dad? Glad to hear all the gremilns are being ironed out of the system


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## Brian13 (Jul 24, 2010)

For the first time in 25 years my dad heard this Super 250 run. He honestly never thought that saw would run again. Unfortunately some of the surprise was mired by a recant knee surgery, but all together he was very pleasantly surprised. I wish he was able to stand a little longer so I could show him a little more of the saw, but he did hear it run and got a good close look at it. Biggest surprise was he let me take punctures. He is not big on cameras. All in all I was a good day, my twins first birthday party and got to show my dad his saw. Now I cant wait to get out and cut with it. As soon a I can get out to my friends I will take some video of it cutting.


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## 8433jeff (Jul 24, 2010)

Great pictures Brian. Your Dad looks great, never would have known anything about the knee except for the scars. Plenty of trees across the street, but I suppose you like where you live... Following this thread has been one of the pleasures that make life enjoyable. Thank you!


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## Brian13 (Jul 24, 2010)

Was able to talk to my dad later after the party, and was asking him what he thought about the saw and told him after I got to do some test cutting I would bring it over. And he said "since you fixed it, you keep it hold on to it and pass it off you one of your kids". And then he said I never expected to see it run ever again. So this is a third generation saw now. Then he said that he had an old Mad string trimmer that he really liked and it ran until it got a hole in the fuel tank. And if I had time he wants me to look at it, and then told me he would put it in a bucket of water for a little while so it would be like the Super 250. I told him that was ok I rather not deal with the water damage this time.


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## Brian13 (Jul 24, 2010)

8433jeff said:


> Great pictures Brian. Your Dad looks great, never would have known anything about the knee except for the scars. Plenty of trees across the street, but I suppose you like where you live... Following this thread has been one of the pleasures that make life enjoyable. Thank you!



Thanks, I grabbed him as soon as he got out of the car and on the way to the door. The pics were kind of rushed so he could sit down. When his knee is all healed up we have some large oak trees to take down. One measures about 5 by 6 at the base, and there is another that is about 28 to 30in. at the base. I plan on having an army of saws with me.


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## Urbicide (Jul 24, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> Was able to talk to my dad later after the party, and was asking him what he thought about the saw and told him after I got to do some test cutting I would bring it over. And he said "since you fixed it, you keep it hold on to it and pass it off you one of your kids". And then he said I never expected to see it run ever again. So this is a third generation saw now.


That is really cool! .........


Brian13 said:


> Then he said that he had an old Mad string trimmer that he really liked and it ran until it got a hole in the fuel tank. And if I had time he wants me to look at it, and then told me he would put it in a bucket of water for a little while so it would be like the Super 250. I told him that was ok I rather not deal with the water damage this time.


Your dad sounds like quite a character. He would fit in nicely around here!


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## Brian13 (Jul 24, 2010)

That really made my day. I did not find out until I was almost finished, but originally it was my grandfathers. He passed when I was still pretty young and didnt really have anything from him. So it really makes me very happy knowing where this saw came from and that it is running again. All in all better than Christmas!


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## RandyMac (Jul 25, 2010)

We are proud of you. So, no goofy hat for you.


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## Brian13 (Jul 25, 2010)

RandyMac said:


> We are proud of you. So, no goofy hat for you.



Thanks, that means a lot coming from you guys! BTW Randy got to try PBR today, tasty!


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## RandyMac (Jul 25, 2010)

PBR will grow hair where it belongs and I heard that it will remove it from your palms.

I found out where the the spikes went, they have been living under the seat of my wagon, it crapped out on my wife when she headed out to the PO.
I'll remedy that on Monday.


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## Brian13 (Jul 25, 2010)

Thank you, that will be awesome! What size bar do you recommend?


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## blackoak (Jul 25, 2010)

*Show him this thread*

I do hope he gets a chance to read this entire thread. You are one dedicated and thoughtful son. I'm sure it will make him even MORE proud of the fine son he raised. The time and effort you put in this project is second to none and quite admiring. I'll say one thing about you, your no quitter and stuck it to the end. Congratulations on a very fine job


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## RandyMac (Jul 25, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> Thank you, that will be awesome! What size bar do you recommend?



28" to 32" should do it. mine has a 36", but with the spikes, it has a 33" cut.


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## Brian13 (Jul 25, 2010)

blackoak said:


> I do hope he gets a chance to read this entire thread. You are one dedicated and thoughtful son. I'm sure it will make him even MORE proud of the fine son he raised. The time and effort you put in this project is second to none and quite admiring. I'll say one thing about you, your no quitter and stuck it to the end. Congratulations on a very fine job



Thanks, now I only hope I can be as good of a father as he was.



RandyMac said:


> 28" to 32" should do it. mine has a 36", but with the spikes, it has a 33" cut.



I will have to keep my eyes open. It seems like .404 .063 bars dont seem to be to common on ebay. At least not since I have started looking.


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## heimannm (Jul 25, 2010)

Don't get too hung up on gauge, it's easy enough to match a chain to most any bar you can find and sprockets don't care what gauge the drive links are. For that matter you can get a rim type drum/sprocket set up for the Super 250 and use any pitch and/or gauge chain to match any bar you can find.

I recently modified a 32" 10 Series bar to fit my SP125, believe it or not it was a sprocket nose .404/.063, you don't have to limit yourself to old McCulloch bars if you are willing to put a little work in it.

Mark


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## Brian13 (Jul 25, 2010)

I wonder how close a stihl mount is. I have a 32" Oregon bar I got recently for my 044. Then all I would need is a 3\8 sprocket.


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## blsnelling (Jul 25, 2010)

Brian, I have to say, this is one of the best threads of all times. I can feel your emotions just thinking about "giving" this saw back to your Dad. I love surprising someone like you did. That is so cool. I hope all goes well on it's first outing. Vids are a definate must!


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## Brian13 (Jul 25, 2010)

Thanks Brad, it was nice to see his disbelief. And there will definitely be videos when I get to cut with it. I am hoping it will be this week or weekend. All depends on a friend of mine and his schedule.


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## heimannm (Jul 25, 2010)

I put an Oregon bar on my SP125 that originally was intended for a saw with much larger bar studs, you can easily fashion a sort of figure 8 shim to make them fit. I had to drill a few holes through the bottom of the chain groove to allow the oiler on the McCulloch to get to the chain.

You can do lots of things to make a bar work, just depends on how much effort you want to put in to it and you have proven you are capable of putting out a lot of effort.

After modifying the 10 Series bar (I only had to file the bar slot to fit the 3/8" studs on the bigger saw) I would readily do that again. You may need to get a set of the bar spacers (like the bar protector plates without the angled flanges) if the bar is thinner that the stock one was.

Mark


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## Brian13 (Jul 25, 2010)

I really want to fit a bar ASAP, just to have one on there. But since this is no ordinary saw to me, I think I am going to wait save up some money and put a 28" or 32" roller nose bar on. I dont know how hard they are to find or how much they go for, but the first time I saw one was here. And I have wanted one since. I think that would really finish the saw off when its not wearing the bow.


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## heimannm (Jul 25, 2010)

Watching e-bay I see 36-54" roller nose bars going $80 to $150. If you keep a close watch you might come up with a better deal.

I bought a few saws with roller nose bars for about what you would pay for the bar alone but in general they are so worn I wouldn't run them in any wood, just for looking.

Mark


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## RandyMac (Jul 25, 2010)

Here is some incentive Brian.

From CPR
<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/WLvbfLlunXo&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/WLvbfLlunXo&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>[/QUOTE]


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## Brian13 (Jul 25, 2010)

Thats what I am talking about!


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## cpr (Jul 25, 2010)

Been out all weekend. Glad your dad was so pleased and finding out it goes back to your grandfather is all the better. A good friend of mine and I had grandfathers that grew up in the depression and really appreciated the simple things in life. Whenever someone commented on something as being overly simplistic (coffee and cream comes readily to mind in this latte society), by friend and I would look at each other and say "Good enough for grandpa, good enough for me."

That Super 797 is a kick... still need to rering it, though. She's short of the compression I'd like her to have. May have to put in one of those window ported pistons JJ talks about for some boost port action...


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## Mr. Bow Saw (Jul 25, 2010)

Brian,
I have this 32" hard nose mac bar forsale.Its new old stock never
been used. The box got wet at some time and the bar started to
rust a little. I removed the rust and primered it.











I allso have this forsale 28" 3/8 .050 roller tip, its New never used.













I have one of these forsale if you need it, 
New old stock just need a bearing.


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## TRI955 (Jul 25, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> Thanks, that means a lot coming from you guys! BTW Randy got to try PBR today, tasty!





RandyMac said:


> PBR will grow hair where it belongs and I heard that it will remove it from your palms.
> 
> I found out where the the spikes went, they have been living under the seat of my wagon, it crapped out on my wife when she headed out to the PO.
> I'll remedy that on Monday.



Sure do like the PBR!!!


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## RandyMac (Jul 25, 2010)

Drinking PBR is one of the symtoms of Yellow Fever. Those who drink PBR and own no McCullochs, just haven't seen the light yet. They live a life of denial and delusion.


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## Brian13 (Jul 25, 2010)

Hmm.....I got a running Mac and shortly after realized I like PBR. My friend who brought the PBR has no chainsaw but was amazed by the Super 250. You might have something there Randy.


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## Brian13 (Jul 26, 2010)

cpr said:


> Been out all weekend. Glad your dad was so pleased and finding out it goes back to your grandfather is all the better. A good friend of mine and I had grandfathers that grew up in the depression and really appreciated the simple things in life. Whenever someone commented on something as being overly simplistic (coffee and cream comes readily to mind in this latte society), by friend and I would look at each other and say "Good enough for grandpa, good enough for me."
> 
> That Super 797 is a kick... still need to rering it, though. She's short of the compression I'd like her to have. May have to put in one of those window ported pistons JJ talks about for some boost port action...



I was too young when my grandfather died to ever really get to know him. But it is really cool knowing the saw was his, and hearing the stories that came with from my dad. I can remember for years my dad told me he was going to fix it an we were going to make a go-cart. He never did find the carb kit for it. When I first started rebuilding saws, I was showing my dad videos of ported 044s and 066s. And he told me "look up the Super 250 thats a real saw". This one will always be my favorite saw for sure.


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## heimannm (Jul 26, 2010)

RandyMac said:


> Drinking PBR is one of the symtoms of Yellow Fever. Those who drink PBR and own no McCullochs, just haven't seen the light yet. They live a life of denial and delusion.



What would you say about a guy that owns a few (or more that a few) McCullochs but does not consume PBR?

Mark


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## RandyMac (Jul 26, 2010)

Mark, sometimes symtoms are skipped or ignored and often enough, show up later. Just be happy that it isn't warm Oly like the Homelite guys drink.


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## 8433jeff (Jul 26, 2010)

My dad mixes PBR and Clamato. Well, some clamato and tomato juice. I tell him to drink a real beer, then you won't have make that PBR taste like something else. He says something about needing vegetables in his diet and to mind my own [email protected]# business. Randy, I'd never move that saw. I might have to make room in the fridge for that......stuff.

PBR=yuck, unless the weather is really hot and the beer is really cold.
Warm Oly=not fit for human consumption.


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## RandyMac (Jul 26, 2010)

8433jeff said:


> My dad mixes PBR and Clamato. Well, some clamato and tomato juice. I tell him to drink a real beer, then you won't have make that PBR taste like something else. He says something about needing vegetables in his diet and to mind my own [email protected]# business. Randy, I'd never move that saw. I might have to make room in the fridge for that......stuff.
> 
> PBR=yuck, unless the weather is really hot and the beer is really cold.
> Warm Oly=not fit for human consumption.



Heretic!!!


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## schmuck.k (Jul 27, 2010)

the saw looks great reading this made me want one but i did find a 250 (not a super) for 20 bucks still got to see if i can get it. randy them ol yeller saws look mity nice with a pbr next to them


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## Eccentric (Jul 27, 2010)

RandyMac said:


> Drinking PBR is one of the symtoms of Yellow Fever. Those who drink PBR and own no McCullochs, just haven't seen the light yet. They live a life of denial and delusion.



Now.............a fellow who *doesn't* want to be a member of the Super 250 Club (or wear that damn goose hat) would probably point out that the colors on the PBR can much more closely resemble those of Homelite Saws.........while yellow can Coors ('banquet beer'......ha) closely fits the Mac paint scheme. Since I *do* want to join the Super 250 Club...............you can *rest assured* that I am *not* pointing out the above color observations. I have *always* loved PBR, especialy when it's *COLD*. I think that's all my FIL (who's a great man) drinks...




RandyMac said:


> Mark, sometimes symtoms are skipped or ignored and often enough, show up later. Just be happy that it isn't warm Oly like the Homelite guys drink.




Funny you say that. My old Homelite nut friend, who has more running/working OLD Homelite big-inch saws than anyone I know (with the possible exception of Bill G.........who doesn't cut wood for a living with them, unlike my friend) mostly drinks Coors Lite (silver bullets........yuck). It's often not cold, but I drink his beer without complaint, as the man (and the OLD IRON) more than makes up for the beer.:agree2:

When I bought my '67 Scout 800 from the widow of an Alcoholic former-Frenchman (a grand old guy), I cleaned out at least a dozen rusty old steel 8oz 'Lil Oly' cans from the floorboards. There were about a half-dozen wine bottles too. I saved one of the 'Lil Oly cans and will keep it with the Scout for all time...


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## Kingsley (Jul 27, 2010)

Darn good beer! My favorite, but no yellow saws yet. Been keeping my eyes open for one though.


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## Urbicide (Jul 27, 2010)

:arg:


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## 8433jeff (Jul 27, 2010)

Urbicide said:


> :arg:



Yeah, buts its been HOT lately. And beer is not to be blamed. Yellow saws still good, everythings OK, easy now, would post pictures but don't have any.

Don't have any of beer either, but soon there will be empty bottles nearby...


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## Brian13 (Jul 27, 2010)

Sorry I kinda started the whole beer hijacking thing. But Friday I might be able to put the Super 250 in some wood and get a video or two. Then I will know for sure if it is finished or not.


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## Mastermind (Jul 27, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> Sorry I kinda started the whole beer hijacking thing. But Friday I might be able to put the Super 250 in some wood and get a video or two. Then I will know for sure if it is finished or not.



Best of luck Brian. I'm sure it will be fine.


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## Brian13 (Jul 31, 2010)

Not having great luck today. Starter solenoid on my fathers tractor took a crap after it was just working 5 minuets ago, as well as the hydraulics didn't want to work. Couldn't get the tractor to start to figure out that problem. Then I put a tree to the ground to test out some saws. The Super 250 fired right up idled well and when I made my first cut it made it through but bogged down easily. I though it was just excessively rich so I made an adjustment and it got worse. No matter what I did it just would not throttle up well. Kinda had a blah sound to it. No power what so ever. It sounded like it was getting too much fuel but I couldn't adjust it out. But it would fire and idle fine. There was still a little gas leaking in the air box too, not a whole lot. Noticed it before I left and it looked like it was coming from the connection of the fuel line at the carb. Didn't really sound like an air leak to me because it wasn't over revving at all. Quite the opposite really. Does anybody have any suggestions on where to start looking? If I can get it running right before next weekend I will try again.


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## Brian13 (Aug 1, 2010)

Just a thought, but a could a fuel filter be too small? Not allow enough fuel for wot? Just a thought.


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## Mastermind (Aug 1, 2010)

On some of my older homelites a too lean condition will keep the saw from pulling in wood even though it revs well without a load, just a thought.


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## Brian13 (Aug 2, 2010)

I had tried adjusting it richer and leaner with no result, it sounded bad without a load. I took the carb apart and it looks to be the same problem I have been having. Those extra holes in the diaphragm. It seems to still be leaking around the diaphragm gasket, and not supplying fuel properly. Aside from finding a new diaphragm set I really dont know what to do. The indian head gasket shellac deteriorated in the gas. So for right now I am stuck. Everything else is ready to go. If I can get this carb issue fixed I will be cutting wood. Anny ideas or solutions?


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## Eccentric (Aug 2, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> I had tried adjusting it richer and leaner with no result, it sounded bad without a load. I took the carb apart and it looks to be the same problem I have been having. Those extra holes in the diaphragm. It seems to still be leaking around the diaphragm gasket, and not supplying fuel properly. Aside from finding a new diaphragm set I really dont know what to do. The indian head gasket shellac deteriorated in the gas. So for right now I am stuck. Everything else is ready to go. If I can get this carb issue fixed I will be cutting wood. Anny ideas or solutions?



For advice on fixing that Mac flatback I'll defer to the Mac experts here. If it was my saw, I'd lean towards converting it to a Tillotson HL series carb. May be another option...opcorn:


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## heimannm (Aug 2, 2010)

My 550 was acting the same way, ran fine at idle and would rev up but then seemed to run out of fuel. I replaced the filter, pick up line, even installed new diaphragms and gaskets and no improvement.

I had to disassemble the whole carburetor including the large diameter expansion plug and free up the check valve underneath. It is possible that something passed through yours and is blocking the high speed circuit and/or the check valve. 

I don't know enough about the internal circuits of the carburetor to know if it is possible to use carburetor cleaner through a port some where to free it up, or if you will have to disassemble the entire unit, again.

Mark


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## Brian13 (Aug 2, 2010)

Thanks for that idea Mark. That will probably be my next step. Before I try that though I might try this. I am still having problems with the diaphragm gasket leaking by the fuel inlet. Everything I have used to seal those extra holes has dissolved from the ethanol, so I was thinking I still have some paper gasket material and a carb off of a parts saw that Mr. Bow Saw gave me. The gasket looks to be one of the older ones. So I was thinking I would cut two of them and sandwich the diaphragm and block the extra holes. And then readjust the metering lever to compensate. Dont know if that will work or not, but it seems like a good idea on paper and it wont cost me anything to try. I have thought about the Tilly swap but Brad did such a good job cleaning the old carb up that I am going to get it to work if it kills me. Otherwise I will order some new welch plugs and do another thorough cleaning, and clean or replace the check valve.


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## heimannm (Aug 2, 2010)

I have used two products, Stick'N Seal and Seal All, both seem to work well with gasoline, not sure about the ethanol as I don't put any ethanol blend in the *** on a regular basis. When I do, I try to run it out a soon as possible and follow on with non-ethanol blended fuel. I don't know if that is really necessary but so far it works.

I do know from 30+ year old experience that leaving ethanol blended fuel in the old McCulloch saws is an invitation to disaster.

Mark


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## Brian13 (Aug 2, 2010)

I wish I could get non ethanol fuel around here. I dont know of anywhere around here that sells straight gas any more. It realy is nasty stuff.


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## Brian13 (Aug 2, 2010)

I tried out something. I sandwiched the diaphragm with two gaskets. I cut them exactly like an original Mac kit. I may be just wasting my time but it didnt cost anything to try. This should eliminate the problem with the leaking and hopefully solve the poor running. Earlier today I tried to clean the carb out and put it back together and it was running like it had an air leak and the carb was leaking out by where those extra holes are. So best case I fixed it, worst case I did nothing. I will test it out tomorrow morning and see what I have. I was going to take some pics of what I did but my camera was dead.


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## woodchuck361 (Aug 2, 2010)

just an idea but a very thin piece of metal like a coke can cut to size might also work to cover the holes and it would offer 0 fuel passthrough, and would be thinner then the paper gasket makeing the need for compinsation less..just an idea.


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## cpr (Aug 3, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> I wish I could get non ethanol fuel around here. I dont know of anywhere around here that sells straight gas any more. It realy is nasty stuff.



Find a local small airport and get 100LL. It doesn't contain ethanol and it's leaded, as in like the stuff the saw was designed for back when... My saws like it and when mixed with Klotz R50 they smell as good as they sound.


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## Brian13 (Aug 3, 2010)

I will have to look into that, I think there is a small hanger within the airport near me that might sell fuel to the public. I know that some people I used to know bought av gas for racing from somewhere around there. As for now I am still not able to get it to run right. My double gasket idea did seem to stop the leaking but still not idling right and seems to not respond well to mixture adjustments. So next step is to try swapping carbs until I can get this one completely disassembled and thoroughly cleaned. I guess after all these years of neglect the saw has got lazy and dosnt want to go back to work. It has no choice though.


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## Saw Dr. (Aug 3, 2010)

You will have alot less aggravation if you just put a Tillotson HL on there.


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## Brian13 (Aug 3, 2010)

Saw Dr. said:


> You will have alot less aggravation if you just put a Tillotson HL on there.



That was my original plan, and its looking to be my next step. I see why nobody likes the Mac carbs. PIA


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## sefh3 (Aug 4, 2010)

So did your fix work?


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## Brian13 (Aug 4, 2010)

Sort of, it did stop the leak, but I think like Mark had said there is still some junk in the carb from the stuff I have used sealing up the holes dissolving and getting sucked through the carb. I am going to clean it out again and try swaping carbs to see if that helps.


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## heimannm (Aug 4, 2010)

Just think how happy you will be, and how much you will have learned when that kitten is purring again.

Mark


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## Brian13 (Aug 4, 2010)

I am so close. Its just a carb holding me up. I have got to make one cut with the bow bar so far though. I have been pulling it apart and putting it back together again so much it looks used again. But I will be happy when it runs properly. I have a tree down at my parents house waiting to be cut up. I hope to have it fixed by this weekend.


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## Brian VT (Aug 6, 2010)

I just got here.
Great thread ! Great job !
That old Mac sound is definitely addicting. I had a Super 550 but I had to thin the herd and decided to stick with old Homelites because I have parts available locally.
Does your Dad know anything about this yet ? 
A video with him, running the saw(?), would be the icing on this cake of a thread.


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## Brian13 (Aug 6, 2010)

Brian VT said:


> I just got here.
> Great thread ! Great job !
> That old Mac sound is definitely addicting. I had a Super 550 but I had to thin the herd and decided to stick with old Homelites because I have parts available locally.
> Does your Dad know anything about this yet ?
> A video with him, running the saw(?), would be the icing on this cake of a thread.



Thank you! My dad has seen the saw, there is a pic of me and him with it a couple of pages back. As soon as I can get the last few kinks worked out I will post a video of it cutting. Might even try to sneak a video of my dad cutting with it too.


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## Brian VT (Aug 6, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> My dad has seen the saw, there is a pic of me and him with it a couple of pages back.


Sorry 'bout that. I skimmed through about 12 of the 44! pages.
I'll be checking in daily now, though.


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## Brian13 (Aug 9, 2010)

Ok, flying a major holding pattern right now. Still having carb issues and because of all the leaking fuel the paint in the air box is shot. So while I am working on the carb problem I am going to try to fix the paint issue and clean the fuel tank. The fuel tank is nasty from trying to seal some of the bolts holding it to the crank case. I have also found some of my patches in the fuel tank falling apart and that is going to be addressed as well. Might as well get everything squared away so when I get the carb situation remedied I can start cutting. I am happy to be as far as I am but I also just feel like :bang:. On the bright side my dad has been helping me try to figure out the carb issue and is still surprised I have got this far.


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## boda65 (Aug 9, 2010)

Stick with it Brian. This kind of stuff can be very discouraging, but you have made tremendous progress on a saw most people never would have attempted to rebuild. These are minor distractions. I've got a 250 right now that I rebuilt the carb on and I can't get it to draw fuel from the tank. Very aggravating  But in the end I will prevail, as will you. :rockn:
Jim


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## turtle561 (Aug 9, 2010)

*HL conversion*

brian, there is hope !
i have followed your rebuild and read marks flatback thread over the past few months while trying to get the carb (flatback) on my 795 to work. it ran but flooded. i had it on and off a half dozen times adjusting metering level, pop off pressure all the trhings i could find on this site. the primer worked etc but it contnued to drool out the back and exhaust. i can see why they had that spitback foam there. i even pulled the large welch plug to make sure it was clear. it was, but in the process i ruined the valve. that was the last straw !
saturday i put an HL carb with the low profile fuel intake on it and within a few pull it fired right off, a little fine tuning and she runs like i hoped it would.yes!
if you could find a tillotson HL19b like they use on the 1-71 you'd be set.


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## Brian13 (Aug 9, 2010)

The only thing that really aggravates me is I have heard it running, I am so close but cant cut with it yet. Its the waiting that sucks. And now I have to go back and make repairs from the fuel leaking and from taking it apart and putting it back together again. The work dosnt bother me, its fun and a learning process. But I have no patients at all, and I have had a taste and now want to cut with it bad LOL. I have read in other threads the troubles in rebuilding these old Macs and know I am not the only one to have problems. Guess its all part of the game. On the bright side I think I found a fuel station nearby that sells ethenol free gas. That may help some.


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## 8433jeff (Aug 9, 2010)

Go and buy some and tell them why you are there. I mean make a big deal of it. So they know people want the stuff. They threatened to pull the pump we have around here. Took about a half hour for the petition to be started; three days later they mailed 8 pages of sigs. They just thought hey we don't sell as much, lets forget about it.


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## Brian13 (Aug 10, 2010)

When I was looking for places in my area that still sell ethanol free gas, I found a neat article. Our Governor Charlie Christ is signing or has signed a bill that will mandate that all fuel in Florida have to have a minimum of 5% or 10%. So I think I am screwed there.


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## Eccentric (Aug 10, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> When I was looking for places in my area that still sell ethanol free gas, I found a neat article. Our Governor Charlie Christ is signing or has signed a bill that will mandate that all fuel in Florida have to have a minimum of 5% or 10%. So I think I am screwed there.



Welcome to our world. Ca's been that way for a while. For years we were forced to buy MTBE-fouled gasoline......................until the enviros that pushed for it in the first place discovered that it was leaching through the tanks and poisoning our water. Then they decided that we need a 'substitute oxygenate' and forced us to buy alky-gas...:censored:


You should still be able to get race gas and av gas without alky. Just gonna cost you more now. Again...............welcome to our world...


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## heimannm (Aug 13, 2010)

Brian,

Keep your eye on the mail box...I tested it on my 200 and it seemed to work just fine. No doubt you will have to do a little fine tuning to get the L and H setting just right for your Super 250.

Mark


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## Dan_IN_MN (Aug 14, 2010)

heimannm said:


> Brian,
> 
> Keep your eye on the mail box...I tested it on my 200 and it seemed to work just fine. No doubt you will have to do a little fine tuning to get the L and H setting just right for your Super 250.
> 
> Mark



Mark

Good going helping out! AGAIN!


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## blsnelling (Aug 14, 2010)

heimannm said:


> Brian,
> 
> Keep your eye on the mail box...I tested it on my 200 and it seemed to work just fine. No doubt you will have to do a little fine tuning to get the L and H setting just right for your Super 250.
> 
> Mark



Way to go Mark!


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## Brian13 (Aug 14, 2010)

heimannm said:


> Brian,
> 
> Keep your eye on the mail box...I tested it on my 200 and it seemed to work just fine. No doubt you will have to do a little fine tuning to get the L and H setting just right for your Super 250.
> 
> Mark



Thank you Mark, I will be on the look out. Still have not been able to get out in the garage to fix the paint. Wife hasnt been feeling well and I have been taking care of the kids. Hoping to get started this weekend.


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## warjohn (Aug 14, 2010)

Great job so far Brian. I have finally had time to catch up on thus thread. Bigjohnstin and I have 4 old Macs which include a 250 and a 200. We plan on doing a father son restoration project on them this winter. This thread has peaked our interest in getting a couple of them done.


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## heimannm (Aug 15, 2010)

Brian, after all you have been through, did you check the duckbill valve in the cap to the fuel tank? They are supposed to vent atmospheric pressure into the tank and hold a little pressure once the saw warms up, but if they are a solid glob of goo they hold too much pressure in the tank once the saw warms up and forces fuel past the needle & seat. Sorry not to mention this sooner as it was the topic of another thread by Gasoline71 not so long ago.

May be one more arrow in your quiver as you get the S 250 sorted out.

Mark


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## Eccentric (Aug 15, 2010)

heimannm said:


> Brian, after all you have been through, did you check the duckbill valve in the cap to the fuel tank? They are supposed to vent atmospheric pressure into the tank and hold a little pressure once the saw warms up, but if they are a solid glob of goo they hold too much pressure in the tank once the saw warms up and forces fuel past the needle & seat. Sorry not to mention this sooner as it was the topic of another thread by Gasoline71 not so long ago.
> 
> May be one more arrow in your quiver as you get the S 250 sorted out.
> 
> Mark



Hey Mark................are those duckbill cap check valves available still? I need one for my Mac 77...


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## heimannm (Aug 16, 2010)

The duckbill valve for the fuel cap on the later model large McCulloch saws 53766 are still available, I normally get them from Bob Johnson for $6 each.

I don't know about the really large valve used in the older saws like your 77 (47252) as I have not had to replace any of those yet. I do have a few older model saws with that style and they seem to hold up much better than the later ones.

Check with Bob Johnson (607 638 9297) as he is the most likely source, if he doesn't have them he may know someone that does.

I have a variety of older fuel caps, some simply have a small hole drilled with a cotter key in it, some have a small steel or felt washer under the cotter key inside the cap, some are completely solid as best I can determine. I don't think I have any with the rubber valve but I will try to remember and look around when I am home again next week.

I could make an interesting thread (to old McCulloch fans anyway) at the shear number of different styles of fuel caps McCulloch supplied, all with the same thread size so any saw from the 3-25 through the SP125 could share a common cap.

Mark


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## Brian13 (Aug 16, 2010)

I did check the tank cap. It does not have the valve, but a porous center. It is definitely not plugged. It looked like there might have been some sort of rubber grommet on the inside of the cap that was deteriorated and gone. So if anything it shouldnt be able to build much if any pressure at all. After I saw Gary talking about the same problem I was having that was the first thing I checked. The only thing that makes sense to me at the moment is the seat being bad. There could be other issues that I dont know about. All the fuel damaged parts are repainted and ready to be put together. I hope this is the last time I rebuild this saw.


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## Eccentric (Aug 16, 2010)

heimannm said:


> The duckbill valve for the fuel cap on the later model large McCulloch saws 53766 are still available, I normally get them from Bob Johnson for $6 each.
> 
> I don't know about the really large valve used in the older saws like your 77 (47252) as I have not had to replace any of those yet. I do have a few older model saws with that style and they seem to hold up much better than the later ones.
> 
> ...



Thanks Mark. I'll check with Bob. My 77 cap has a large hole in the center (about 1/8") and a 1/4"-ish diameter, 1/2"-ish long tubular extension cast into the inside of it. The IPL shows the #47252 valve as fitting onto or into that extension...


So all the large Macs use the same thread size cap then? That'd mean I could use a later style cap (with a new check valve) to run the saw if I can't find a check valve for the 'stock' cap..................and save the 'stock' cap for 'looks' during shelf duty. That's a relief.


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## Brian13 (Aug 16, 2010)

Another thing I had noticed was, every time you pulled the cord it would dump fuel out of the throat. The last time I never even got it to start. It just flooded the airbox right away.


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## Eccentric (Aug 16, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> Another thing I had noticed was, every time you pulled the cord it would dump fuel out of the throat. The last time I never even got it to start. It just flooded the airbox right away.



To me, that sounds like the pump section of the carb is working quite well.............and that the needle/seat aren't closing completely. Maybe yet more crap holding the needle off the seat. Another option is of course that the fuel is being pumped into the carb, then leaking past somewhere where there shouldn't be any flow. Welch plug, metering diaphragm, etc. Just peeing in the wind here...


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## Brian13 (Aug 16, 2010)

Eccentric said:


> To me, that sounds like the pump section of the carb is working quite well.............and that the needle/seat aren't closing completely. Maybe yet more crap holding the needle off the seat. Another option is of course that the fuel is being pumped into the carb, then leaking past somewhere where there shouldn't be any flow. Welch plug, metering diaphragm, etc. Just peeing in the wind here...



I am not going to say its impossible there is still garage in the seat, but it got almost a whole can of carburetor cleaner through it. Welch plug or diaphragm could be my issue though.


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## heimannm (Aug 16, 2010)

Brian,

There is suppose to be a duck bill type check valve under that sintered metal vent cover. It is possible the remnents of yours is still under there plugging it up. Did the saw leak fuel out through that vent when it was running? If not, I would go ahead and gently punch it out from the inside of the cap and order the new duck bill valve from Bob. In fact, you will want to install the new valve in any case or the saw will spit fuel out the vent every time it runs.

Have a look at the IPL and you will see what I mean.

And be prepared, the black goo that is the remains of the original duck bill will stick like tar to everything and can be quite difficult to clean off.

Mark


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## Brian13 (Aug 17, 2010)

I have a picture of what gas will do to paint when the paint is submerged in gas. And I have more pics of the repair. Feels like I am rebuilding it all over again.

















I finished cleaning up the handle bar and put a rubberized paint on it. I was hoping for a smoother finish but non slip is ok too.


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## Brian13 (Aug 17, 2010)

Mark I was looking at the IPL on the gas cap and the duckbill is gone completely. Here are some photos, the first two are the cap I have been using. The third is another I have, the top is the same at the other but the underside is a little bit different. On the cap I have been using if you tilt the saw over to far it will leak out, so I dont think it is building up too much pressure. Might be causing another problem though.




.


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## cbfarmall (Aug 17, 2010)

Brian13 said:


>



You know, for these cap vents, and this cap is very common on the 70s Macs, I stole an idea from Stihl. Instead of fooling with a duckbill valve, I stuffed a short pic of fuel line in the hole and then screwed in a set screw. This is more or less what Stihl did with alot of it's older saws for the tank vent--08S, 070/090, 028, 038, etc.. I've run the 550 since about 10 or 15 minutes, and so far so good. Some experimenting can be done with the size of the screw so you don't actually plug up the vent hole. 

I'll get a picture of it if you want.

Chris B.


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## Brian13 (Aug 17, 2010)

cbfarmall said:


> You know, for these cap vents, and this cap is very common on the 70s Macs, I stole an idea from Stihl. Instead of fooling with a duckbill valve, I stuffed a short pic of fuel line in the hole and then screwed in a set screw. This is more or less what Stihl did with alot of it's older saws for the tank vent--08S, 070/090, 028, 038, etc.. I've run the 550 since about 10 or 15 minutes, and so far so good. Some experimenting can be done with the size of the screw so you don't actually plug up the vent hole.
> 
> I'll get a picture of it if you want.
> 
> Chris B.



If you have a pic that would be great. I think I know what you are saying but a pic would give me a better idea.


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## Brian13 (Aug 18, 2010)

Ok I think I am done, again. Put everything back together, and now going to let it sit for another day or two to let the paint fully cure. Could someone look at the way throttle is hooked up to the carb. No matter how I try to hook it up something doesnt seem right.


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## leeha (Aug 18, 2010)

Brian, I think it looks ok. On that type
of carb the throttle rod closes the throttle.
it doesn't open it. When the rod moves forward 
the intake suction opens the throttle plate.


Lee


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## cbfarmall (Aug 18, 2010)

Here's 2 pictures of a fuel tank vent.

The first is an 08S Stihl. Look past the shroud and you'll see the fuel hose on a barb with a set screw at the top. That's Stihl's vent and it works pretty well.





The second is how I adapted it to a Mac fuel cap.





Chris B.

Brian, since it should be fresh in your mind, I have 2 questions about your Super 250 piston. Are there locating pins for the piston rings? From the IPL, it looks as if one ring gap is at the exhaust port and one is opposite--is this the case with yours? Thanks.


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## Brian13 (Aug 18, 2010)

Thanks Chris, that was pretty close to what I was picturing. As for the piston, there are no locating rings. Mark had told me he likes to keep the ring ends away from the intake. So I put one around the exhaust and the other almost 180 from that. 

Thanks Lee, I thought that was how it hooks up. The problem I am having is, in order to get the throttle rod to hold the plate against the throttle stop screw it will get stuck when pulling the throttle trigger. When the rod moves forward too the area I have pointed out in the picture it will not want to move forward. It probably will just take some playing with.


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## leeha (Aug 18, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> Thanks Chris, that was pretty close to what I was picturing. As for the piston, there are no locating rings. Mark had told me he likes to keep the ring ends away from the intake. So I put one around the exhaust and the other almost 180 from that.
> 
> Thanks Lee, I thought that was how it hooks up. The problem I am having is, in order to get the throttle rod to hold the plate against the throttle stop screw it will get stuck when pulling the throttle trigger. When the rod moves forward too the area I have pointed out in the picture it will not want to move forward. It probably will just take some playing with.



Looking at it again, The rod should be more straight.
Looks like it is pointing upward at the carb end so when
you give it throttle the rod moves upward. Another words the rod should be more parallel with each other.


Lee


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## heimannm (Aug 18, 2010)

Actually the throttle linkage should push the throttle lever forward and hold it open. That carburetor is equipped with an idle speed governor that has a tiny spring to open the throttle, and as the engine speeds up the air over the throttle butterfly closes it. The throttle shaft is off center to insure that air passing through the carburetor pulls the butterfly closed.

Here is the way it looks on a 700 Series saw:






Mark


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## Brian13 (Aug 18, 2010)

If I am understanding this correctly, the throttle linkage does not have to pull the throttle lever all the way back to the throttle stop screw. The air flow will do that when necessary. Still have a lot to learn about these saws.


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## heimannm (Aug 18, 2010)

Yes the air flow will close the throttle if:

1) the spring is correctly set

2) the throttle shaft is not binding

3) the engine is tight enough to pull air through without some "spit back" that pushes the throttle open again

4) the linkage does not prevent the tiny spring and air flow from working their magic

Mark


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## 8433jeff (Aug 18, 2010)

Thats a lot of ifs. In other words, if the saw is running well, it will run like it should. Some of these Macs seem like you need that magic ball in your avatar, Mark.
Stick with it Brian. Lotta moxie waiting for paint to dry. Takes patience sometimes I don't have. But hopefully a lot a bunch more work saved, or a better overall job. Painted a tractor this time last year for Dad, took it parading Saturday, soon as the parade started the antifreeze leak did too, seal out in the water pump. Its not a "new" tractor again anymore, I guess.


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## Brian13 (Aug 26, 2010)

Ok, I seem to have it running again. Thanks Mark! At first it wanted to race a little bit but I kept working with it and everything seemed to smooth out. Still get a little bit of spit back but nothing like before. I have it sitting now waiting to see if it is going to fill the air box with gas again. Shouldnt, but I will see what happens. Now I need to put it in some wood. I want to go to my parents house and run it but nobody will be home till Sunday. Never used a bow say, and this has no chain brake. Call me a sissy but I would like someone there to dial 911. So I am going to try for Sunday. I hope this is my last update, and next will be a video! Thanks for being patient with me.


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## heimannm (Aug 26, 2010)

We are all waiting for the final outcome, but cheers to you for sticking with it so far.

Bow bars are great for their intended application(s) but not so useful for general cutting. There is a lot of potention kick back zone on that bar so do be careful, or consider running a standard bar and chain untill you get the feel of that saw in action.

Oh yeah, maybe you could have someone with some first aid training on hand, like a fireman or paramedic...

Mark


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## Brian VT (Aug 26, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> Never used a bow say, and this has no chain brake. Call me a sissy but I would like someone there to dial 911.


Good call. I try to never cut alone. Sometimes it can't be helped, but it's best to have someone within yelling distance. You just never know what might happen.
Enjoy that saw and wear ear plugs.


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## Brian13 (Aug 26, 2010)

heimannm said:


> We are all waiting for the final outcome, but cheers to you for sticking with it so far.
> 
> Bow bars are great for their intended application(s) but not so useful for general cutting. There is a lot of potention kick back zone on that bar so do be careful, or consider running a standard bar and chain untill you get the feel of that saw in action.
> 
> ...



My dad use this for cutting fire wood, when he lived in South Carolina. I dont know if he ever had a regular bar for it. Thanks to Mr. Bowsaw I have a bar for it just need to get chain. If he didnt have a regular bar for it I dont know how he cut the trees down either. I am a Firefigher/EMT. But I guess if I am the one hurt that dosnt help much. Tried to get a buddy I work with that dosnt live to far from me to come watch but he was getting on an air boat with his son. Just going to have to wait till Sunday.



Brian VT said:


> Good call. I try to never cut alone. Sometimes it can't be helped, but it's best to have someone within yelling distance. You just never know what might happen.
> Enjoy that saw and wear ear plugs.



If I am trying to get something done I dont usually worry as much. But this is for fun with an unfamiliar saw. I must be getting old, I am siding with common sense.


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## jhkaska (Aug 26, 2010)

heimannm said:


> Yes the air flow will close the throttle if:
> 
> 1) the spring is correctly set
> 
> ...



Mark, I have a 1-80 that surges at wide open throttle on about 2 or 3 second intervals. Could it be that your above list of "ifs" is my problem? Not sure how to correct it if it is. But at least it will give me a starting point. Thanks.


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## heimannm (Aug 26, 2010)

The 1-80 has an air vane governer designed to prevent the engine from overspeeding when running unloaded. What you are hearing is normal out of the cut, when under load it will run much more evenly. Next time you are running it, try blocking the air inlet on the flywheel cover for a few seconds, you should hear the engine speed up and surge less since you've blocked the air flowing over the governer vane.

It is possible to readjust the linkage to make them more or less restrictive. I would put it in a good piece of wood and if it cuts well, don't mess with it, if it still surges in the cut you may want to try making a tiny adjustment. 

Mark


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## jhkaska (Aug 26, 2010)

Thanks Mark, you sure do know your Macs

It did surge in the cut but I may not have been cutting big enough wood. It has a 36 inch bar so I need to find a bigger log.


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## Urbicide (Aug 26, 2010)

jhkaska said:


> Thanks Mark, you sure do know your Macs.



He sure does!


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## Brian13 (Aug 30, 2010)

I have made several stupid mistakes that have cost me time and money, so I hope others that try this for the first time can avoid some of this. And here is yet another error. While chasing a possible air leak I went to tighten the air box screws, as Mark had suggested to me. Trying to be quick about it so I could get to the 797, I snapped a bolt. I got lucky and there was enough protruding I could take it out with pliers. Now I have a new insulator gasket and a new stuffer gasket in there and I am hoping that will cure the problem.


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## heimannm (Aug 30, 2010)

Clean those surfaces well, and consider using a little Indian Head gasket shellac or other sealer on the gaskets to make sure you get a good seal.

Mark


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## cpr (Aug 30, 2010)

Keep at her my friend. I'm pulling hard for you. I can't wait to start my Super 250 project, parts are arriving daily. Just gotta find time to get the eternal D-44 off the bench. Oh well, pulling season is drawing to a close in the next few weeks... Believe it or not, I'd rather hear a big cube Melrose Park 466 redlining away from a holeshot than any saw any day, so the wait is worth it.


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## sefh3 (Aug 30, 2010)

cpr said:


> Keep at her my friend. I'm pulling hard for you. I can't wait to start my Super 250 project, parts are arriving daily. Just gotta find time to get the eternal D-44 off the bench. Oh well, pulling season is drawing to a close in the next few weeks... Believe it or not, I'd rather hear a big cube Melrose Park 466 redlining away from a holeshot than any saw any day, so the wait is worth it.



So which tractor is yours????? Yes I'm done following the circuit for this year so now it's time to start on the saws. 

Brian ~ That was a close one. I have overtightened a bolt or two and snapped them off.


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## cpr (Aug 31, 2010)

sefh3 said:


> So which tractor is yours????? Yes I'm done following the circuit for this year so now it's time to start on the saws.
> 
> Brian ~ That was a close one. I have overtightened a bolt or two and snapped them off.



Neither at the moment. Both are the Harmon Team's, but Bud Boy is for sale. Someday...


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## Brian13 (Aug 31, 2010)

Never been to a tractor pull. Dont know why, it looks like fun. Some friends of my father that I used to work with as well compeate. Dont know what class, I know one of them took a garden tractor that was at my parents(wasnt in any better shape than the Super 250) restored it real nice and pulls with it. When the kids get a little older I will have to take them. 
I did get lucky on that bolt, it snapped at the reed plate rather than the block. If it has snapped in the block I would have been screwed. I am on to my last detail now. The fuel pick up line I was using cracked and needs to be replaced. I am having trouble with the trygon and keep ripping it trying to get it to stretch enough to fit on the nipple. I guess if I look back at the first page I should be happy I have got to run at all.


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## turtle561 (Aug 31, 2010)

Brian-on that fuel line, push it over the tapered end of a nail set or some such thing to expand it, heat with a lighter to soften it , let cool and it should take a set at a larger dia. and make it easier to get started. this has worked for me before. keep strokin'.


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## Mastermind (Aug 31, 2010)

turtle561 said:


> Brian-on that fuel line, push it over the tapered end of a nail set or some such thing to expand it, heat with a lighter to soften it , let cool and it should take a set at a larger dia. and make it easier to get started. this has worked for me before. keep strokin'.



:agree2:


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## Brian13 (Aug 31, 2010)

Ok, I have been on the right track just a little impatient. I will try again tomorrow and go a little slower.


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## Brian13 (Sep 1, 2010)

Ran it for a little bit this morning and sounds better. Not sure how to tune it though. I am a little gun shy on holding throttle wot. But it seems like it is rich. I need some guidance on how to properly tune it. I have a nice tach to guide me, just need to know what I am looking for as far as top end. Getting closer!


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## ric5141 (Sep 1, 2010)

I take it the gaskets did the trick?


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## Brian13 (Sep 1, 2010)

I think so. When blipping the throttle it doesnt sound like a modern chainsaw. The sound has a much lower pitch and the chain moves a lot slower. I thinks its pretty rich but my tack made 5000+. So I need to learn how to set the high end now and see what happens.


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## ric5141 (Sep 1, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> I think so. When blipping the throttle it doesnt sound like a modern chainsaw. The sound has a much lower pitch and the chain moves a lot slower. I thinks its pretty rich but my tack made 5000+. So I need to learn how to set the high end now and see what happens.



It is a cool saw....You did an impossible task and succeeded....My hat is off to you...Just got to get moving on my projects now....


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## Brian13 (Sep 1, 2010)

Thanks, I need to get moving on projects as well. I am 3 or 4 saws deep. They are all in better condition though. I just want this one finished so I can devote all of my attention to other saws.


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## ric5141 (Sep 1, 2010)

I hear you...I am still digging for parts on the 850 and picked up a Husky 371 that I need to get up before cutting season. I love the macs but I spend most of the cutting time with my huskies...


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## Brian13 (Sep 1, 2010)

I have a 797 and 10-10 apart on my bench, with a 1-41 under my bech. That should keep me busy for awhile, but I am still on the look out for a cheap Stihl 066 or trashed 044 for a 046bb. And this started as a way to make extra money, not working so far LOL.


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## ric5141 (Sep 1, 2010)

Yellow fever...LOL....


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## sefh3 (Sep 1, 2010)

Brian13 said:


> I have a 797 and 10-10 apart on my bench, with a 1-41 under my bech. That should keep me busy for awhile, but I am still on the look out for a cheap Stihl 066 or trashed 044 for a 046bb. And this started as a way to make extra money, not working so far LOL.



It takes some time before you can really make some money bit I haven't found that yet either. Usually its fixing saws to sell then use that money to buy more. Get project and you did very well on this one. With this now any other saw should be a lot easier.


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## Brian13 (Sep 1, 2010)

sefh3 said:


> It takes some time before you can really make some money bit I haven't found that yet either. Usually its fixing saws to sell then use that money to buy more. Get project and you did very well on this one. With this now any other saw should be a lot easier.



LOL, sounds like your closer to making money than me. I need to start fixing saws I dont want to keep. This saw has definitely helped my confidence in working on saws. I just dig right in now, as long as I have an IPL I am pretty sure I can get it back together. And I have a better grasp on the little details, like ring gaps and piston clearance, all the things that come with experience.


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## Brian13 (Sep 2, 2010)

Ok finally got to cut with it today. It is still lacking the power I think it should have. I think that has mostly to do with the rings are still seating, as that is its first real use and I just plain suck when it comes to tuning. I am pretty sure that it is rich on the high speed but dont know how much. Tried the roller nose bar too but didnt take any video because the chain was pretty dull. Any suggestions on what I need to do to fine tune is welcome.

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4vtFMe6MBFY?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4vtFMe6MBFY?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>


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## cpr (Sep 2, 2010)

Looks good, but agree it sounds way fat. I should think you could run 10000 no load without trouble. If that makes you nervous, 9000 is plenty good. I have set a few of my Macs to around 10200 no load, no problems to speak of. I do fatten them up a touch for bigger logs or heavy cutting which is truly rare for mine as the Huskies do the real work.


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## RandyMac (Sep 2, 2010)

They were made to be tuned in the cut, find a buddy with steady hands to help you.


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## Brian13 (Sep 2, 2010)

When I was tuning it I was doing it based on what it was doing in the cut. What am I looking for while it is cutting. Cleaning out or should I be paying more attention to how well it pulls in the cut to base my tuning.


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## heimannm (Sep 2, 2010)

It is still plenty rich in the cut, try leaning the H setting about 1/8 of a turn at a time and continue to stick it in the wood until it really runs smooth.

A nice sharp chain may change the way you feel as well.

Mark


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## andrethegiant70 (Sep 3, 2010)

heimannm said:


> It is still plenty rich in the cut, try leaning the H setting about 1/8 of a turn at a time and continue to stick it in the wood until it really runs smooth.
> 
> A nice sharp chain may change the way you feel as well.
> 
> Mark



Yep, you're a little fat there, that saw will really pick up if you lean it some. Tuned correctly, that saw won't slow in the cut much on a log that size.


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## Brian13 (Sep 3, 2010)

Next time I take it out I will lean it out a bit. It would still race a little when idling. But when you take the air box cover and hit the throttle plate it will settle down. There still some spit back in the air box as well, but could be cause I have it so rich. When I get it tuned better and broken in a bit I will post another video.


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## Deprime (Sep 7, 2010)

Just read the entire thread. GREAT job on this restore! Can't say enough about the hard work that you put in to it! Also, great job to everyone who helped out along the way. I love seeing an old saw that most would throw in the trash pile turned into a beautiful wood cutting machine!


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## Brian VT (Sep 10, 2010)

*Norton*

I thought those that enjoyed this thread would also appreciate this video from a dirtbiking friend of mine and his brother.
It's long, and there are a few swear words, but it jerked a few tears from me.
If you get bored watching, fast forward to @ 8:10.

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## Deprime (Sep 10, 2010)

That was pretty cool!


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## Brian13 (Sep 11, 2010)

Havnt got to watch the whole video yet, but that is pretty cool. I got to bring the saw over to my parents and cut some more with it, and this time my dad was the camera man. He was pretty exited to see it run. Its just about back to how he remembered it. I will have to watch the rest of the video tomorrow when I am a little more awake and a little less buzzed. For now here is my updated video.
<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/iVz1RvwwEPs?fs=1&hl=en_US"></><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/iVz1RvwwEPs?fs=1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>


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## cpr (Sep 11, 2010)

Saw sounds a lot better, I think you've made it.


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## Brian VT (Sep 11, 2010)

cpr said:


> Saw sounds a lot better...


+2. Sounds great. Just a bit of 4-stroking when no load.
Hard to tell in the vid. Is it throwing big chips ?
Seems like it should cut faster. I was wondering if the chain could be sharper.


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## Brian13 (Sep 11, 2010)

Thanks, it is cutting a lot better now. As for chips, is was throwing big chips earlier. That log has been sitting for a few weeks while I was trying to get the saw to run right and saw a lot of rain. And I think that kicked up a lot of dirt on the log. The chain got dull quick and was throwing a bunch of dust. I tried to sharpen it before I took the video but apparently didnt do a very good job. I am just happy I am able to use it, and that I am at the point were using it will only improve it.


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## J Beard (Sep 11, 2010)

*Norton*



Brian VT said:


> I thought those that enjoyed this thread would also appreciate this video from a dirtbiking friend of mine and his brother.
> It's long, and there are a few swear words, but it jerked a few tears from me.
> If you get bored watching, fast forward to @ 8:10.
> 
> ...


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## Danno (Mar 28, 2011)

Brian, What kind of RPMs are you running now? I saw a post a page back where someone suggested you could run 9K+. I'm of the mindset that you were almost there with 5K. I thought these older macs ran somewhere closer to 7K.:msp_confused:


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## Brian13 (Mar 28, 2011)

Not sure on the rpms. I havnt put a tach to it yet, so far I have done all my tuning by ear and how it cuts. So far I think I have it close but still a bit rich, if I think about it when I take it out next I will see what kind of rpms its turning.


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