# homemade fire rake.



## wareagle5.0 (Feb 25, 2014)

After looking at these simple tools, I just couldnt bring myself to pay 50-60 bucks for one so i made my own for $0. I used scrap i had laying around. 1"x3" angle iron for the tooth bar, a short piece of 1.5" gas line welded to the head and a piece of galv fence post for the handle. Then i wrapped sand paper tape for some gripping surface and gave them a paint job.


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## 2dogs (Feb 25, 2014)

Don't forget to grind the teeth flat on the ends and then sharpen all 3 sides. Fire rakes take a beating and break teeth quite often but for the home owner yours should work fine.


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## Philbert (Feb 25, 2014)

Nice looking rakes. 

Philbert


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## wareagle5.0 (Feb 25, 2014)

2dogs said:


> Don't forget to grind the teeth flat on the ends and then sharpen all 3 sides. Fire rakes take a beating and break teeth quite often but for the home owner yours should work fine.


Yes sir, done already. found out today that they work pretty good for raking small limbs up after cutting firewood too.


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## Gologit (Feb 25, 2014)

If the raking part was a little longer you could move more material. Will that metal handle conduct much heat?


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## wareagle5.0 (Feb 26, 2014)

Gologit said:


> If the raking part was a little longer you could move more material. Will that metal handle conduct much heat?


I don't really think heat will be an issue with the sandpaper tape and gloves on. I wanted to make the tooth bar wider but they are pretty close to being as heavy as I would want them to be now.


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## bert0168 (Feb 28, 2014)

OK, I've seen these before and know they are a specialty tool but can someone explain why these are shaped differently than a conventional rake?


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## Philbert (Feb 28, 2014)

Dig through all the grass and organic stuff, down to mineral soil, when creating a fire line. 

Philbert


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## 2dogs (Mar 1, 2014)

Philbert said:


> Dig through all the grass and organic stuff, down to mineral soil, when creating a fire line.
> 
> Philbert


Only sorta. The Council rake as it is commonly called is made primarily for use in the pine forest. The teeth are from a sickle bar mower and have THREE cutting edges. The teeth are not pointed they are sharpened square across the bottom. It is more a cutting tool than a rake. The Council tool is light, the handle is long and easily replaceable. However it does not work well in grass because it does not have a long cutting edge like a Mcleod tool. It is also an inexpensive tool.

If I have to cut low growing ivy or even blackberries by hand a sharp Council tool works very well for me. I have never measured the combined length of the cutting edges on all four teeth but it is much longer than what might be expected.


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## slowp (Mar 1, 2014)

Is the handle long enough to lean on? Maybe even fall asleep while leaning on it?


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## 2dogs (Mar 1, 2014)

slowp said:


> Is the handle long enough to lean on? Maybe even fall asleep while leaning on it?



Yes to both.


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## slowp (Mar 1, 2014)

Maybe a hollow handle with an inflatable airbag (pillow) stored inside would be an improvement.


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## 2dogs (Mar 1, 2014)

slowp said:


> Maybe a hollow handle with an inflatable airbag (pillow) stored inside would be an improvement.


I think you need a nap.


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## Jim Timber (Mar 2, 2014)

Make your handle out of stainless steel. It doesn't conduct heat well. Large diameter thin wall tubing wouldn't weigh much either.


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## northmanlogging (Mar 2, 2014)

Jim Timber said:


> Make your handle out of stainless steel. It doesn't conduct heat well. Large diameter thin wall tubing wouldn't weigh much either.



Are you high? Stainless just takes more heat to weld, conducts just about as well as any other steel, or luminium. Copper, gold and silver on the other hand they conduct heat quite well, just kinda spendy to be building a rake out of.

On that note though, most times the heat will only travel a few feet up, and that is while forging at yellow or bright red heat (nearly melting but not quite). So I would imagine that a 5' handle would be more then enough, unless you drop it in a fire some wheres... then well get thicker gloves.


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## Gologit (Mar 2, 2014)

slowp said:


> Maybe a hollow handle with an inflatable airbag (pillow) stored inside would be an improvement.



A cup holder would be nice.


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## slowp (Mar 2, 2014)

Gologit said:


> A cup holder would be nice.


 
That too. Then you can be waked up gently and have coffee handed to you on the line. So civilized. So unfirely.


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## chucker (Mar 2, 2014)

??hey!! how about a pipe handle with a working garden hose attached to it for the hot times it will incur?? water cooled with a blast of wet mist for the operator! lol water supplied by one of slowp,s water cans carried on the back? ? it could just work for someone with a lot of ambition.........


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## aarolar (Mar 2, 2014)

northmanlogging said:


> Are you high? Stainless just takes more heat to weld, conducts just about as well as any other steel, or luminium. Copper, gold and silver on the other hand they conduct heat quite well, just kinda spendy to be building a rake out of.
> 
> On that note though, most times the heat will only travel a few feet up, and that is while forging at yellow or bright red heat (nearly melting but not quite). So I would imagine that a 5' handle would be more then enough, unless you drop it in a fire some wheres... then well get thicker gloves.



Negative stainless steel is much slower to conduct heat than most other steels, I tig weld 8 hrs a day 5 day a week and I would be happy to prove it to you any day. Why do you think good stainless cook wear has copper bottoms?


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## northmanlogging (Mar 2, 2014)

Like I said it *Takes More Heat To Weld*  It conducts nearly as well, its just harder so it stands up to more heat. If it was such a poor conductor then It surely wouldn't be used for cooking would it.


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## aarolar (Mar 2, 2014)

northmanlogging said:


> Like I said it *Takes More Heat To Weld*  It conducts nearly as well, its just harder so it stands up to more heat. If it was such a poor conductor then It surely wouldn't be used for cooking would it.



Your wrong argue it all day long its used for cookwear because of many other properties its heat dissipation not one of them and only in the lowest grade cookwear.

Ask anyone who cooks about it and they will tell you stainless will scorch food before anything else moonshiners are particularly aware of this property and its more pronounced over a flame vs a heating element.

Want to test it? Get a 12ga sheet of stainless and carbon and stick a rosebud to each one for 20 seconds and see what happens.


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## slowp (Mar 2, 2014)

Actually, a sprinkler head to cool off the operator would be welcome. I have been happy to be under the gentle mist part of a bucket drop. Not directly, just getting the mist.
For you not been on fire line people, it is often a hot place and a metal handle just sounds bad, unless it can hold all the above mentioned accessories. And keep the stick walkers occupied.


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## northmanlogging (Mar 2, 2014)

aarolar said:


> Your wrong argue it all day long its used for cookwear because of many other properties its heat dissipation not one of them and only in the lowest grade cookwear.
> 
> Ask anyone who cooks about it and they will tell you stainless will scorch food before anything else moonshiners are particularly aware of this property and its more pronounced over a flame vs a heating element.
> 
> Want to test it? Get a 12ga sheet of stainless and carbon and stick a rosebud to each one for 20 seconds and see what happens.




Try it yourself. and use a laser thermometer, stainless will be just as hot, it just takes a higher temp. to turn red, hence its harder to weld. They use it in cookware because its... stainless, and stronger than aluminium, however having cooked more then a few meals myself, and being raised in a moonshine area, it reacts about the same as cast iron, but not as well as copper, however copper works better with lower heat, being that copper actually does conduct better, so you get a more even heat, hence while some, not all stainless cook ware has a copper coating on it and why you can by a heat despencer for welding made out of... copper. And the reason stainless scorches is because people tend to buy the cheapest cookware they can where as you get the thinist metal they can make it out of, hence leading to more heat transfer faster, leading to.... scorching.

Stainless is made from Iron, a good but not great conductor, Chromium, an excellent conductor, Nickel, an even better conductor. and a few other things, like carbon for the really hard stuff, the thing that makes stainless so nice is its stable under heat, because of the nickel and chromium, which means it can handle higher temperatures, which means it takes more heat to weld, which makes most welders assume its not a good conductor of heat.

Except for the chrome and nickel, which are in the less then 2% range, Stainless has about the same chemical make up as regular mild steel, and being that chrome and nickel are both better conductors then iron...

So yeah I will argue the point because I actually understand metallurgy, its what I do for a living. Most welders barely understand the differences from one type of stainless to the other. 


Sorry for the derail...


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## northmanlogging (Mar 2, 2014)

aarolar said:


> Your wrong argue it all day long its used for cookwear because of many other properties its heat dissipation not one of them and only in the lowest grade cookwear.
> 
> Ask anyone who cooks about it and they will tell you stainless will scorch food before anything else moonshiners are particularly aware of this property and its more pronounced over a flame vs a heating element.
> 
> Want to test it? Get a 12ga sheet of stainless and carbon and stick a rosebud to each one for 20 seconds and see what happens.



Read a book... like the machinery's handbook... otherwise try it yourself, and use a thermometer not just your blurry vision.


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## 2dogs (Mar 3, 2014)

slowp said:


> Actually, a sprinkler head to cool off the operator would be welcome. I have been happy to be under the gentle mist part of a bucket drop. Not directly, just getting the mist.



Then attach it to the front of a D6. With full hydraulic controls of course.


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## Jim Timber (Mar 3, 2014)

Here I thought you were a logger...

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/overall-heat-transfer-coefficients-d_284.html

Stainless is half as efficient as copper.  Which is why there's a big ass copper plate welded to the bottom of any stainless pot or pan worth buying.

Taking more power to weld is also a perfect example of this being true. It takes more heat input to achieve the same core temperature, because the heat isn't readily conducted.


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## Jim Timber (Mar 3, 2014)

Lincoln welders must be high too? Oh, I get it - they didn't read Machinery's handbook?

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us/support/welding-solutions/Pages/compact-welders.aspx

"stainless steel has lower thermal conductivity, meaning that heat energy does not transfer or move away from the weld zone as fast. This is beneficial in welding, in that it therefore does not require as much current to achieve complete fusion because the heat is not being pulled away from the weld zone as rapidly."


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## aarolar (Mar 3, 2014)

Perfect example of "I read about it" vs actual first hand experience. And insulting welders really makes you look like the better man, for what its worth I am a high precision machine part welder and I make my living understanding how metal reacts to the application of heat in thousands of an inch not just some idiot melting metal together in his backyard shop.


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## slowp (Mar 3, 2014)

Mmmmmm, no hydraulics because those hoses sometimes break and the refreshing mist of water could turn evil. I was also thinking of an umbrella attachment for sun protection.


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## 2dogs (Mar 3, 2014)

How about using that hollow handle to store frozen margarita mix? I like the umbrella idea!


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## wareagle5.0 (Mar 3, 2014)

these ideas are all interesting. mabye i can come up with a prototype soon.


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