# Advice wanted for pulling a tree over using a cable.



## Stihl Alive (Oct 15, 2008)

I know a guy that wants me to pull down a very rotten tree for him. Not for money, I just owe him a favor. Is anyone willing to give me some advice on how to properly use steel cable to complete such a task? I know most of you don't care too much for me after the whole "I'm gonna spike pines in my free time" saga. But this is a relatively harmless job, no targets at all, as long as I KNOW HOW TO USE CABLE PROPERLY. I'm purchasing a 200 ft reel of cable, some thimbles, and some rope clips. I think I've got the jist of using a thimble and rope clips on the "come-along" end, but I'm unclear about how the cable should be properly fastened to the tree. I could put a rope on it and probably snatch it down with a 4X4, but I want to learn some basic cabling techniques if anyone is willing to share their knowledge. 



thanks in advance,


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## clearance (Oct 15, 2008)

I have made up my own cables to pull trees, or trucks. If it is 3/8", which it should be, at least, then you only need two cable clamps on each end. I figure about 6" back from the thimble. Here is how.

1) put on the cable clamps very loosly, bend the cable and slide the clamps over it.
2) insert the thimble, push one clamp up to it, it can be hard as it will want to slide back.
3) tighten it up a bit with a wrench or ratchet.
4) do the same with the other clamp, leave it about 11/2" from the end.
5) put some pull on the cable, it will make the thimble true.
6) tighten up the clamps to the correct torque.

I have put a hook at one end and used a shackle at the other, have a cable with two eyes also. What you can do is to get the cable up the tree, one end, then use a shackle to attach it to its self. Make sure the pin goes through the thimble, and doesn't run open on the line.

Test it before you use it. Do not let it kink, and so on.
Good luck/Jim


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## JS Landscaping (Oct 15, 2008)

Why not just knotch it and watch it? You are gonna need a throwball and throwline to set the cable high enough...If its as rotten as it sounds, i wouldnt wanna be trying to set a line in it, unless nessasary....pulling a line up into it is gonna put some force on the tree itself. Are you using a winch? Little confused as to why you just wouldnt cut the tree down, aka notch and watch. Cabling a tree as I know it is installing a dynamic or static line in a tree to aid in support from wind/snow and other forces. So your using a cable, to pull a tree down?


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## Stihl Alive (Oct 15, 2008)

clearance said:


> I have made up my own cables to pull trees, or trucks. If it is 3/8", which it should be, at least, then you only need two cable clamps on each end. I figure about 6" back from the thimble. Here is how.
> 
> 1) put on the cable clamps very loosly, bend the cable and slide the clamps over it.
> 2) insert the thimble, push one clamp up to it, it can be hard as it will want to slide back.
> ...



I think I get what you're saying for the most part. What I'm trying to do is figure out how to use my 200 ft cable when I don't need 200ft. On this job I shouldn't need more than 50 ft. So I get my thimble and clamps installed on the bottom end, then what about the tree end. What is a shackle? I was thinking some way to throw the cable into the tree with a line and weight, then I guess clamp the two parts of cable together somewhat close to the tree. Then I could determine exactly how much cable to use while still having the whole 200ft intact. What am I missing from what you told me?




BTW, thanks for the advice.


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## Stihl Alive (Oct 15, 2008)

JS Landscaping said:


> Why not just knotch it and watch it? You are gonna need a throwball and throwline to set the cable high enough...If its as rotten as it sounds, i wouldnt wanna be trying to set a line in it, unless nessasary....pulling a line up into it is gonna put some force on the tree itself. Are you using a winch? Little confused as to why you just wouldnt cut the tree down, aka notch and watch. Cabling a tree as I know it is installing a dynamic or static line in a tree to aid in support from wind/snow and other forces. So your using a cable, to pull a tree down?



I could just notch and watch.or I could notch and pull it over. I just want to get some advice on using cable, so when I cut a larger tree, and need the cable to help with direction (which I will be using almost all the time for the immediate future). 

I just want all the cabling advice about parts and petchniques I can get, even for a small, seemingly safe job like this. 



PS: I called the local tree service (Out on a Limb) to see if I could work with them some of my days off. I went to grade school with the two brothers that run it. One of them fell out of a tree yesterday so they said no for now until they get all that straightened out.


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## clearance (Oct 15, 2008)

Stihl Alive said:


> I think I get what you're saying for the most part. What I'm trying to do is figure out how to use my 200 ft cable when I don't need 200ft. On this job I shouldn't need more than 50 ft. So I get my thimble and clamps installed on the bottom end, then what about the tree end. What is a shackle? I was thinking some way to throw the cable into the tree with a line and weight, then I guess clamp the two parts of cable together somewhat close to the tree. Then I could determine exactly how much cable to use while still having the whole 200ft intact. What am I missing from what you told me?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



There is no bottom end, only two ends, they need two clamps and one thimble for each end. A shackle, sometimes called a clevis, is piece of metal shaped like a U, with a pin that goes through the two ends.

As far as using a 200' cable when you only need 50', well, that depends on a few things. Like are there other trees around? Do you have blocks, can you possibly put your truck another place further away, things like that.

Main thing is not to kink the cable.


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## Stihl Alive (Oct 15, 2008)

clearance said:


> There is no bottom end, only two ends, they need two clamps and one thimble for each end. A shackle, sometimes called a clevis, is piece of metal shaped like a U, with a pin that goes through the two ends.
> 
> As far as using a 200' cable when you only need 50', well, that depends on a few things. Like are there other trees around? Do you have blocks, can you possibly put your truck another place further away, things like that.
> 
> Main thing is not to kink the cable.




thanks for helping me man. I'm going to keep asking, when you get bored just let me know and I'll give you a break. 

What I want to practice on this tree is setting a proper cable, to assist the tree in falling in the right direction. on the ground I will have one end with a thimble and two clips. this is what I will hook the come along to. What would happen if I wrapped the cable around the tree and used two or three wire rop clips to bind the cable together close to the tree? disaster? this would leave tons of slack cable on the ground but would it be sufficient? I think what I'm getting at is do I need to have the cable end to end, and have a thimble and clips on both ends? But that would require a finite length of cable, right?


everyone here knows I'm a rookie. I thought this would be a perfect time to learn something about cabling with little to no risk.


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## clearance (Oct 15, 2008)

How much room do you have, like describe the area, can you go into nieghbors yards or what?
Cable is easy to kink, then its nfg. 
You can use trees as blocks, a block is another word for pulley.


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## Bearcreek (Oct 15, 2008)

How big of a tree is this? Why would you use cable instead of a bull rope?


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## Stihl Alive (Oct 15, 2008)

clearance said:


> How much room do you have, like describe the area, can you go into nieghbors yards or what?
> Cable is easy to kink, then its nfg.
> You can use trees as blocks, a block is another word for pulley.



there is a house (trailer) about 15 ft behind the tree, and the tree is leaning away from the house. Other than that its open field. I'm somewhat familiar with using a tree for a block (did it a few days ago with a rope). Getting this tree down is not the issue, I'm pretty sure I could take it down with an axe and about 20 minutes. Cabling is my main concern. in this case, how to properly secure the cable to a tree. Maybe I was misleading in my first post. This tree is truly a no brainer. with a small back cut I'm sure it could be pulled down by hand with a rope. I'm trying to learn how to secure cable in the tree and on the ground (tree, truck, etc..) and I thought this would be perfect to practice on. I also have several isolated healthy trees I will be able to practice on next week. Not take downs, just practice.


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## clearance (Oct 15, 2008)

Securing the cable-get the cable up over a branch and around the trunk. Take the shackle and put the long end of the cable inside it. Then take the pin and put it throught the thimble (other end). Tighten the pin.


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## Stihl Alive (Oct 15, 2008)

clearance said:


> Securing the cable-get the cable up over a branch and around the trunk. Take the shackle and put the long end of the cable inside it. Then take the pin and put it throught the thimble (other end). Tighten the pin.



that's it? just tighten the pin to put pressure on the cables? is that secure enough to pull/guide, heavier, healthier trees?


thanks for the help


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## clearance (Oct 15, 2008)

Stihl Alive said:


> that's it? just tighten the pin to put pressure on the cables? is that secure enough to pull/guide, heavier, healthier trees?
> 
> 
> thanks for the help



The pin puts no pressure on the cable. The shackle should be decent, like "Crosby". Also, the saddle of the clip is on the live part of the line, not the short end. 3/8 i.w.r.c. 6x19 cable will not break unless you are putting more than 5 tons pull on it.

Stihl Alive-look around on the net, type in words like shackle, wire rope, rigging accesories, stuff like that.


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## Stihl Alive (Oct 15, 2008)

clearance said:


> The pin puts no pressure on the cable. The shackle should be decent, like "Crosby". Also, the saddle of the clip is on the live part of the line, not the short end. 3/8 i.w.r.c. 6x19 cable will not break unless you are putting more than 5 tons pull on it.
> 
> Stihl Alive-look around on the net, type in words like shackle, wire rope, rigging accesories, stuff like that.



http://www.treestuff.com/store/cart.asp?delwish=5

here's what I'm getting today. I'm still confused about the shackle. How does that secure the cable to the tree?


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## TheTreeSpyder (Oct 15, 2008)

Why do you need so much power? Can the rotten tree take all those forces? The higher line goes the more leverage; and you only need enough generally to tip tree. If line goes up 50' from compressed side of hinge (as pivot) and has a 1000# pull on it; it places 25tons of pressure on hinge, is tree that much off balance?

In using cable, the weight of the cable can keep pulling during first folding, but in using rope, elasticity can have same factor to consider. Can set with line with krab to eye, and line down back spine of tree and locked off above cut. Can so much cut (even back without face) be placed so it doesn't need as much high/high risk line tension?


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## clearance (Oct 15, 2008)

Stihl Alive said:


> http://www.treestuff.com/store/cart.asp?delwish=5
> 
> here's what I'm getting today. I'm still confused about the shackle. How does that secure the cable to the tree?



Look around on the net some more, and not at tree stuff, type in Crosby shackle, I can't post a picture, find a picture of a shackle, you will figure it out, I expalined it the best I could.


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## SLlandscape (Oct 15, 2008)

I'm lucky. I got a buddy with a CAT 966G loader for that kind of thing. Forget pulling/pushing the tree over, you take the whole thing, roots and all. Calm down I only do that with old fubar trees that were never taken care of. Like the previous comment, search the web for shackles, wire clamps and blocks. Preferably, search for pictures so you know what it looks like. If all else fails, go visit one of your local steel erector or crane service company. I'm sure somebody would be more than happy to show you the proper way to use cables, blocks, and shackles for rigging purposes.


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## turnkey4099 (Oct 16, 2008)

Stihl Alive said:


> http://www.treestuff.com/store/cart.asp?delwish=5
> 
> here's what I'm getting today. I'm still confused about the shackle. How does that secure the cable to the tree?




Picture coming up as soon as I can get it over to photobucket.

Harry K


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## turnkey4099 (Oct 16, 2008)

The 'pin' is threaded and screws into the shackle. This cable really should have had a 'thimble' inserted in the loop but...

To fasten to the tree?...depends. 

If you can climb it or use a ladder:

1. I put a loop of chain around the tree and the shackle through a chain loop.

2. Or put two or three loops around the tree and then the shackle over the free end of the cable.

Can't climb or ladder?:

3. Throw line and pull cable up, shackle around cable, pull cable and it will pull the shackle up the cable and against the tree.

Problem with #3 is that it _will_ kink the cable if you pull hard on it.

I would not do one 200 ft cable, Make up several shorter cables and use them end to end as needed. I carry around 200 ft of cable in 50 to 75 ft sections, tow straps, chains and 3 snatch blocks. Have used every one of them on occasion on one 'pull'.

Harry K


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## John Ellison (Oct 16, 2008)

*Never Saddle a Dead Horse*

I am not sure but the clamps in the picture may be on backwards. There is a saying to remember, never saddle a dead horse. You have the u-bolt, the saddle and the nuts. The saddle should not go on the dead side of the line, which is the side of the eye with the end of the line. The live side is the longer side.
A kink will weaken the line but the saddle wont. You want the saddle on the live side of the eye which takes most all of the strain.


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## clearance (Oct 16, 2008)

John Ellison said:


> I am not sure but the clamps in the picture may be on backwards. There is a saying to remember, never saddle a dead horse. You have the u-bolt, the saddle and the nuts. The saddle should not go on the dead side of the line, which is the side of the eye with the end of the line. The live side is the longer side.
> A kink will weaken the line but the saddle wont. You want the saddle on the live side of the eye which takes most all of the strain.



You are right. Saddle-live.


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## Crofter (Oct 16, 2008)

clearance said:


> You are right. Saddle-live.



I must be interpreting the picture wrong then as I see the dead end as being on the left under the U bolts and the saddles on the load bearing part. In any case you are right about the rule. The U bolt bites into and weakens the cable more than the saddle does so should not be on the live support part of the cable.

I think rope is a lot more user friendly, cheaper, and reusing it if your knots are good, does not kink or damage like with a cable does. Cable has too much memory!


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## John Ellison (Oct 16, 2008)

I have a 15' a 50' and a 100' length of 3/8'' cable that I have used a lot in the last 10 years and there is not a bad place or a kink anywhere in them.
But I agree, for pulling a tree good arborist rope is a lot easier to work with. For dragging a log wire rope (cable) is best for abrasion resistance.

Looking at the picture again I am not sure at all which way it is. Your right it is on the left side, but lo0oks more in line with the other??


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## randyg (Oct 16, 2008)

Stihl Alive said:


> I know a guy that wants me to pull down a very rotten tree for him. Not for money, I just owe him a favor. Is anyone willing to give me some advice on how to properly use steel cable to complete such a task? I know most of you don't care too much for me after the whole "I'm gonna spike pines in my free time" saga. But this is a relatively harmless job, no targets at all, as long as I KNOW HOW TO USE CABLE PROPERLY. I'm purchasing a 200 ft reel of cable, some thimbles, and some rope clips. I think I've got the jist of using a thimble and rope clips on the "come-along" end, but I'm unclear about how the cable should be properly fastened to the tree. I could put a rope on it and probably snatch it down with a 4X4, but I want to learn some basic cabling techniques if anyone is willing to share their knowledge.
> 
> 
> 
> thanks in advance,




Why cable? In beginning, you should be looking for more multipurpose tools and equipment. Cable is clumsy, heavy, stiff, difficult to attach to mid-line, and not overly versatile. If its not too late, you might instead buy a 150 or 200 feet of 9/16 or 5/8 bull rope. With a weight on a small line thrown into the tree, you can pull the bull rope in with the smaller line, and then with a running bowline have your rope in the tree without climbing. Make sure and isolate one limb only for running bowline, as two or more can break limb in mid pull, and will also damage rope. Line high in tree gives better mechanical advantage than lower tie in point.  Dead trees are usually not fun to climb and sometimes dangerous. If you pre-tension the bull rope to much before making the cut, very good chance that either during the back-cut, or sometimes even when making the face cut, the hinge will crack and the tree will shake sending limbs down on your head. This falling dead wood should not be taken lightly, as it accounts for many injuries and deaths every year. A large dead limb can hang on through 70 - 80 mile per hour winds, but a slight shake from just tapping in a felling wedge in the back-cut can send it down on you.  Hooking to just a vehicle can get you in trouble also if vehicle is not heavy enough. Keep in mind that tying to rear end of a rear wheel drive vehicle will lift and you have less traction than you planned. If possible turn that bull line at base of another tree with a pulley and then hook to vehicle. With this rope, you can attach mid way easily with a prusik, use it to lower tree parts, and many other applications than cable.

WORK SMART

WORK SAFE


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## GLOBOTREE (Oct 16, 2008)

*Pulling Tree Over with a cable"Dont do it"*



Stihl Alive said:


> I know a guy that wants me to pull down a very rotten tree for him. Not for money, I just owe him a favor. Is anyone willing to give me some advice on how to properly use steel cable to complete such a task? I know most of you don't care too much for me after the whole "I'm gonna spike pines in my free time" saga. But this is a relatively harmless job, no targets at all, as long as I KNOW HOW TO USE CABLE PROPERLY. I'm purchasing a 200 ft reel of cable, some thimbles, and some rope clips. I think I've got the jist of using a thimble and rope clips on the "come-along" end, but I'm unclear about how the cable should be properly fastened to the tree. I could put a rope on it and probably snatch it down with a 4X4, but I want to learn some basic cabling techniques if anyone is willing to share their knowledge.
> 
> 
> 
> thanks in advance,[/First of all I missed the whole "I am gonna spike the pine trees incident" so I could care less honestly. But something just doesnt sound right about what you are planning to do here for this guy, you say there is no money exchanging hands, right? First, let me know where your getting 200 ft. of cable and all that hardware for nothing and I will get a roll as well. Second , yer gonna have to fasten the cable anyways so why dont you just fasten a rope and pull it over with tha? its a waste of cable and by the way, dont use a truck unless there is nothing else to anchor to. And only use the truck as an anchor if you absolutely have to, its not a good idea at all. Check for nests too, if its hollow it could have a nest of some sort, and you dont want to be cleaning up dead wildlife for free either!:computer: :computer: QUOTE]


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## GLOBOTREE (Oct 16, 2008)

randyg said:


> Why cable? In beginning, you should be looking for more multipurpose tools and equipment. Cable is clumsy, heavy, stiff, difficult to attach to mid-line, and not overly versatile. If its not too late, you might instead buy a 150 or 200 feet of 9/16 or 5/8 bull rope. With a weight on a small line thrown into the tree, you can pull the bull rope in with the smaller line, and then with a running bowline have your rope in the tree without climbing. Make sure and isolate one limb only for running bowline, as two or more can break limb in mid pull, and will also damage rope. Line high in tree gives better mechanical advantage than lower tie in point.  Dead trees are usually not fun to climb and sometimes dangerous. If you pre-tension the bull rope to much before making the cut, very good chance that either during the back-cut, or sometimes even when making the face cut, the hinge will crack and the tree will shake sending limbs down on your head. This falling dead wood should not be taken lightly, as it accounts for many injuries and deaths every year. A large dead limb can hang on through 70 - 80 mile per hour winds, but a slight shake from just tapping in a felling wedge in the back-cut can send it down on you.  Hooking to just a vehicle can get you in trouble also if vehicle is not heavy enough. Keep in mind that tying to rear end of a rear wheel drive vehicle will lift and you have less traction than you planned. If possible turn that bull line at base of another tree with a pulley and then hook to vehicle. With this rope, you can attach mid way easily with a prusik, use it to lower tree parts, and many other applications than cable.
> 
> WORK SMART
> 
> WORK SAFE[/Ya mon! that says it QUOTE]


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## Husky137 (Oct 16, 2008)

Why pull over a tree that can be felled with the lean in the first place?


"Learning" how to use the wrong tool for this job sounds like it simply has the potential to overly complicate and make a dangerous job, more dangerous.


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## turnkey4099 (Oct 16, 2008)

Crofter said:


> I must be interpreting the picture wrong then as I see the dead end as being on the left under the U bolts and the saddles on the load bearing part. In any case you are right about the rule. The U bolt bites into and weakens the cable more than the saddle does so should not be on the live support part of the cable.
> 
> I think rope is a lot more user friendly, cheaper, and reusing it if your knots are good, does not kink or damage like with a cable does. Cable has too much memory!



Yes, the saddle is on the wrong side. Been doing it that way for ...hmm...since I was a kid. Noone ever bothered to tell me it was the wrong way. Thanks. Never to late to learn. Looks like I will be redoing a batch of cables and tow straps.

Harry K


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## fireball33 (Oct 16, 2008)

why not get one of these from Baileys ---- Maasdam Pow' R-Rope Puller 
and a hank of rope instead of cable
i'm with the others that said cable is heavy and clumsy and wants to 
kink and that it is definitely a pain to work with unlike a rope 

good luck
and work safe  


opcorn:


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## TheTreeSpyder (Oct 16, 2008)

All ways and always deform the Standing Tension Part less

1 of my all time favorite wench, cable, hardware, basic rigging sites


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## davej (Oct 17, 2008)

I too bought cable before I knew about good rope. I always put the cable around the tree so I end up with 100ft length rather than 200ft. Use three anchor shackles to join the two ends.


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## Stihl Alive (Oct 17, 2008)

randyg said:


> Why cable? In beginning, you should be looking for more multipurpose tools and equipment. Cable is clumsy, heavy, stiff, difficult to attach to mid-line, and not overly versatile. If its not too late, you might instead buy a 150 or 200 feet of 9/16 or 5/8 bull rope. With a weight on a small line thrown into the tree, you can pull the bull rope in with the smaller line, and then with a running bowline have your rope in the tree without climbing. Make sure and isolate one limb only for running bowline, as two or more can break limb in mid pull, and will also damage rope. Line high in tree gives better mechanical advantage than lower tie in point.  Dead trees are usually not fun to climb and sometimes dangerous. If you pre-tension the bull rope to much before making the cut, very good chance that either during the back-cut, or sometimes even when making the face cut, the hinge will crack and the tree will shake sending limbs down on your head. This falling dead wood should not be taken lightly, as it accounts for many injuries and deaths every year. A large dead limb can hang on through 70 - 80 mile per hour winds, but a slight shake from just tapping in a felling wedge in the back-cut can send it down on you.  Hooking to just a vehicle can get you in trouble also if vehicle is not heavy enough. Keep in mind that tying to rear end of a rear wheel drive vehicle will lift and you have less traction than you planned. If possible turn that bull line at base of another tree with a pulley and then hook to vehicle. With this rope, you can attach mid way easily with a prusik, use it to lower tree parts, and many other applications than cable.
> 
> WORK SMART
> 
> WORK SAFE




I'm really glad I came to you guys first. I haven't purchased any cable or accessories yet, something told me to wait and get more input. EDIT: got it Would you recommend this: http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=916DB+150&catID=295


thanks so much for all of your input, you've probably saved me a lot of money and frustration.


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## TheTreeSpyder (Oct 17, 2008)

Yes; iff it is in SWLrange, don't want elastic response from line and can use it for other things.

The warning about pre-tensioning is apt; but at the same time will give less impact at start of pull so is safer that way? i guess it depends on the situation and how you count the risks, when you take them etc.

i recommend not only brain bucket for felling, but also a rolled up towel across shoulders if anything is over head.

A number of men have been killed, crippled etc. by taking a widowmaker across shoulders/ neck area even with hard hat. Towel is not the worst thing to have comfort, sanitation, protection, first-aid etc. wise; unless ya let it get in the way..


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## randyg (Oct 18, 2008)

Stihl Alive said:


> I'm really glad I came to you guys first. I haven't purchased any cable or accessories yet, something told me to wait and get more input. EDIT: got it Would you recommend this: http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=916DB+150&catID=295
> 
> 
> thanks so much for all of your input, you've probably saved me a lot of money and frustration.




I would definately recomend this. . .for pulling over or lowering parts of trees. Now about this dead tree that already leans the direction you want to fell it: The only way I would put a rope in to pull away from trailer is if there was a very strong wind blowing toward the trailer? I recommend you do NOT attempt it if there is ANY wind at all. Are you sure it leans totally in the direction you want it to go? No side lean? Is the tree or does the tree have more or heavier limbs on one side or the other? Depending on type of tree and degree of (deadness?) the hinge may bend very little before breaking, loosing all directional control. Along with loosing steerability, the dead tree gives a little "shake" when that hinge breaks and if anything is still overhead, that is the time it could snap loose and head down at a speed of I believe around 32 feet per second per second. Rate of acceleration of a falling object in a vacume at sea level or something like that. Having a towel rolled up across your shoulders will be handy for mopping up the blood running out your mouth after having a couple ribs stuck into your lungs. (That was in response to previouse post)

Look, I remember that excitement, and desire to help people drop trees for nothing, just because you can, or think you can. It never really goes away totally. Not all, but most of what you will read on these forums is pretty good scoop, but some is not. If you can't tell the difference, keep reading! KEEP READING

Stihl alive, I want you to STAY ALIVE!


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## kevin callahan (Oct 20, 2008)

call a professional before you get hurt or hurt someone else


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