# More About Plunge Cutting



## Gypo Logger (Dec 5, 2010)

Thought I'd do a comprehesive vid of proper plunging techniques.
Gypo

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## WesternSaw (Dec 5, 2010)

*Yukon*

Tried to check it out,says video not available.
Lawrence


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## boda65 (Dec 5, 2010)

same here


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## Gypo Logger (Dec 5, 2010)

Stay tuned, Youtube is processing it. Lol
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/j1mdryF46ro?hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/j1mdryF46ro?hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>


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## 04ultra (Dec 5, 2010)

Yukonsawman said:


> Stay tuned, Youtube is processing it. Lol
> <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/j1mdryF46ro?hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/j1mdryF46ro?hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>









.


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## sawinredneck (Dec 5, 2010)

I dunno John, that barberchair about kilt ya, the face was WAY to large and you pulled the fiber on some nice veneer wood.
Needs a little refinement I'm thinking :hmm3grin2orange:


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## Gypo Logger (Dec 5, 2010)

sawinredneck said:


> I dunno John, that barberchair about kilt ya, the face was WAY to large and you pulled the fiber on some nice veneer wood.
> Needs a little refinement I'm thinking :hmm3grin2orange:


 You got that right, I was very frightened when that wood came back at me. I knew I should have wedged it!
Gypo


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## GASoline71 (Dec 6, 2010)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

"...this is pretty big wood... "





Gary


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## stihl 440 (Dec 6, 2010)

Yukonsawman said:


> You got that right, I was very frightened when that wood came back at me. I knew I should have wedged it!
> Gypo



dude that is halarious...i like how ya rev the saw up while you talk....that takes the cake...lol...yea thats some pretty big wood there...lmfao....he11 i wouldn't have even brought the 372...ya need ATLEAST a 385 for THAT stuff....i doubt if even my 066 could handle it...lololololololololololol:hmm3grin2orange:


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## Cedarkerf (Dec 6, 2010)

Realy should practice on smaller stuff. You can use a dime tip carving bar to plunge on the smaller more managable trees.


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## 056 kid (Dec 6, 2010)

Good thing you bore cut that pig. Who knows what would have happened with a conventional back cut. Its too scary for me to even think about!!


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## funky sawman (Dec 6, 2010)

056 kid said:


> Good thing you bore cut that pig. Who knows what would have happened with a conventional back cut. Its too scary for me to even think about!!



gosh, your giving me shivers:help:


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## slowp (Dec 6, 2010)

Aren't you supposed to wedge it? I have some baby wedges that I've used to get stuck windows open. They will work in large timber like that.


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## boda65 (Dec 6, 2010)

Good stuff! Thank God you survived that wicked barber chair. That was a close call. :hmm3grin2orange:


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## Cedarkerf (Dec 6, 2010)

slowp said:


> Aren't you supposed to wedge it? I have some baby wedges that I've used to get stuck windows open. They will work in large timber like that.


Seen some videos here of guys wedging head leaners, any body got a clue why youd wedge a strong head leaner when falling it with the lean. Am I missing something.


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## Burvol (Dec 6, 2010)

Does anyone get the thing about cutting from one side of a tree?


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## hammerlogging (Dec 6, 2010)

Cedarkerf said:


> Am I missing something.



GOLGW. that's GOL gone wrong.

GOL is simple, its a foundation to get someone to the "reasonably acceptable" level. When I am reviewing a potential faller, they must have a firm grasp of many of the techniques espoused by GOL, especially bore cutting and proper escape, not to say these are exclusively GOL techniques. BUT, if they want a job, they must have more than that. Its a 3 part puzzle to pass my test- safety, quality, and production. Production will suffer if you haven't adopted technique to maximize production based on the conditions at hand, while maintaining safe work practices, practices which vary based on those very conditions. Quality and safety may plummet if production is over valued reducing stem utilization and value recovery from the butt log- splinter pull, busted hinges, etc. Of you're safer than need be, production plummets, got to balance all three.

maybe that answers Burv's question too. Cause the saw hand in question is not fully capable- but, nowhere does GOL say you have to do everything from one side. But if you wnat ot up your numbers, you ought to be able to do everything from either side. If you want to participate in real logging, you MUST have production in mind.


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## ckliff (Dec 6, 2010)

Maybe he meant to post this in the joke & funny pic forum.


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## Metals406 (Dec 6, 2010)

Cedarkerf said:


> Seen some videos here of guys wedging head leaners, any body got a clue why youd wedge a strong head leaner when falling it with the lean. Am I missing something.



Cause unless they're 75° or more. . . They could come back on ya.


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## 056 kid (Dec 6, 2010)

Burvol said:


> Does anyone get the thing about cutting from one side of a tree?



Its nice isent it? I mean when you dont have to go to the other side why do it? I think the GOL guys are big on plunging both sides behind the hinge. its what I have seen anyways. .


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## forestryworks (Dec 6, 2010)

Burvol said:


> Does anyone get the thing about cutting from one side of a tree?



the guys in the commercial tree care forum don't


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## stihl 440 (Dec 6, 2010)

Cedarkerf said:


> Seen some videos here of guys wedging head leaners, any body got a clue why youd wedge a strong head leaner when falling it with the lean. Am I missing something.



now that is pointless.....when i say i wedge a borecut tree i mean i bore it...leave the strap...set wedges....cut strap...use wedges to lift the tree the opposite way of natural lean.....that is the only time i wedge them or...just use one wedge to kick the tree one certian way away from an obsticale...i've dropped trees that people said they wasnt even going to attempt...i put them on the ground without hitting a single thing.......some people say im crazy....if i am...oh well...but it works...


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## Turkeyslayer (Dec 6, 2010)

Dang I cant believe you still have your arms, starting the back cut with the top tip (kickback zone) of the bar:biggrinbounce2:


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## slowp (Dec 6, 2010)

I aint no faller, but had you gone around to the other side, then bored in again, maybe there wouldn't be such a big barberchair? 

I think you need to practice on small trees before cutting another punkin. opcorn:


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## bitzer (Dec 6, 2010)

You're a funny guy John! That got a chuckle out of me and it was a real pita day today. Thanks.


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## Gypo Logger (Dec 6, 2010)

bitzercreek1 said:


> You're a funny guy John! That got a chuckle out of me and it was a real pita day today. Thanks.



Lol, I came armed with two more idiotic vids, but I'll be darned if I can figure out how to down size them with Windows Movie Maker, all I succeeded in doing was slowing down my Hughes Internet to a bleedin' crawl.
Need some video help.
John


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## Gypo Logger (Dec 6, 2010)

slowp said:


> I aint no faller, but had you gone around to the other side, then bored in again, maybe there wouldn't be such a big barberchair?
> 
> I think you need to practice on small trees before cutting another punkin. opcorn:



Ya, in the next vid I stepped it up a bit and did a humbolt + plunge, but can't seem to get the vid down sized.
The Village Idiot


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## stihl 440 (Dec 6, 2010)

Yukonsawman said:


> Ya, in the next vid I stepped it up a bit and did a humbolt + plunge, but can't seem to get the vid down sized.
> The Village Idiot



I REALLY want to see this vid john.....learn me somethin today...:jester: Seriously the last one was great stuff....lolololol:jester::hmm3grin2orange:


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## WesternSaw (Dec 6, 2010)

*Help?*

What's GOL?I'm not a logger
Lawrence


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## stihl 440 (Dec 6, 2010)

Game Of Logging...its a proper timber falling and bucking techniques training course...and its a competition while you learn.


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## Gologit (Dec 6, 2010)

stihl 440 said:


> Game Of Logging...its a proper timber falling and bucking techniques training course...and its a competition while you learn.



Hasn't caught on too well on the Left Coast, however. Wonder why?


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## sawinredneck (Dec 6, 2010)

As well as GOL PREACHES to bore cut EVERYTHING! Not a real sound practice IMO.


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## stihl 440 (Dec 6, 2010)

Gologit said:


> Hasn't caught on too well on the Left Coast, however. Wonder why?



You know as well as i do.....a whole different ball game....why would you even ask?...lol


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## Gologit (Dec 6, 2010)

stihl 440 said:


> You know as well as i do.....a whole different ball game....why would you even ask?...lol



Why would I even ask? Maybe because of what you said in one of your previous posts..that GOL "teaches _proper_ timber falling and bucking techniques". 

The implication, not yours but GOL's, is that everyone who doesn't use their methods is doing it _improperly_.

I wonder how we ever got all that OG wood on the ground without GOL to guide us?


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## Humptulips (Dec 6, 2010)

Cedarkerf said:


> Seen some videos here of guys wedging head leaners, any body got a clue why youd wedge a strong head leaner when falling it with the lean. Am I missing something.



Actually I can think of an application for that and have used it a few times. It involves leaning a skyline support tree into a set of guylines to bring it in line with a skyline. You need the wedge so the skyline won't bounce it back at you if it gets a whip in it.

Ok, you guys can go back to falling the big timber.


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## stihl 440 (Dec 6, 2010)

Gologit said:


> Why would I even ask? Maybe because of what you said in one of your previous posts..that GOL "teaches _proper_ timber falling and bucking techniques".
> 
> The implication, not yours but GOL's, is that everyone who doesn't use their methods is doing it _improperly_.
> 
> I wonder how we ever got all that OG wood on the ground without GOL to guide us?



HEY...LISTEN....I NEVER said it was "THE ULTIMATE" technique.......yea it teaches techniques for the size of hardwood timber that it is taught in....but not ALLLLL timber!! RELAX!!!!...you get too bent out of shape too easily....i wasnt even talking about west coast OG timber or even SG....or west coast softwood at all for that matter. I humbolt about 80% of the softwood that I cut.....I humbolt when i can....conventional when i can't....i use it when nessesary.....


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## sawinredneck (Dec 7, 2010)

Easy guys!
The GOL techniques get most wound up and in a fighting mood! It's a stupid idea, stupid principle and just flat dangerous!


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## Gologit (Dec 7, 2010)

stihl 440 said:


> HEY...LISTEN....I NEVER said it was "THE ULTIMATE" technique.......yea it teaches techniques for the size of hardwood timber that it is taught in....but not ALLLLL timber!! RELAX!!!!...you get too bent out of shape too easily....i wasnt even talking about west coast OG timber or even SG....or west coast softwood at all for that matter. I humbolt about 80% of the softwood that I cut.....I humbolt when i can....conventional when i can't....i use it when nessesary.....



Okay, take a deep breath, relax, and read my post again. I wasn't attacking you on any kind of personal level. I don't see any need for you to rant and rave. Just because you and I don't agree on something isn't any reason to get your blood pressure up. 

My view of GOL remains unchanged. It's too structured and verges on being dogmatic in it's approach to technique in the woods. Most of the people out here consider it a joke. We also have a hard time taking seriously anybody who says that GOL is the only way to go. I understand that you're not doing that and that shows that you probably have more intelligence than you've exhibited here so far.

But...if you want to get all upset and yell about something, and if it makes you feel better, go right ahead. I'll give your viewpoint, based on your experience, the consideration it's worth.


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## FSburt (Dec 7, 2010)

Well I have some thoughts about this GOL discussion. Most of what I continually hear is about using the side boring backcut as the consistant method to use when falling trees. From my experience it has a place when needed eg: Head leaners, trees with weakened tops that may not hold together with the start and stop motion of a conventional backcut. My request is to the GOLers out there could you guys provide some videos that show some the other techniques that GOL has shown you that makes the job of timber falling any safer or more efficient then what we already use. I am all for seeing some new techniques beside just boring or plunging cuts.


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## slowp (Dec 7, 2010)

Humptulips said:


> Actually I can think of an application for that and have used it a few times. It involves leaning a skyline support tree into a set of guylines to bring it in line with a skyline. You need the wedge so the skyline won't bounce it back at you if it gets a whip in it.
> 
> Ok, you guys can go back to falling the big timber.



Yet another thing I won't understand unless I see it. And probably won't.
Oh well. 

I have seen the old "tree fallen by mistake onto the skyline" but no wedges were used, the rigging saw always has a bent bar, and even the guy who lectured to always lower the skyline when a tree is being felled near it, didn't do so. Nothing broke. Just bruises from diving behind a big stump. 

Oooops, my bad, back to games.


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## slowp (Dec 7, 2010)

*GEMTLE logging offered in GOL course*

Just discovered where the term, Gentle Logging came from.

_ATV & Gentle Logging Training

This training program is for woodland owners and workers who want to extract trees from their property safely and without the use of expensive professional logging equipment. With the use of an ATV, small tractor, pug, or something that can pull a tree behind, the wood can be pulled out in a low impact manner, with little or no residual damage to the property. The program focuses on choosing the right equipment and using it safely. Those taking the program will be instructed in proper chainsaw handling, learning to fell trees safely, with the option of removing the wood with their own equipment at their own pace. Game of Logging instructors will demonstrate the use of the equipment, how to set up an ATV for working in their woodlot with safety as top priority. 


Using the tools and the techniques offered in this program, woodland owners and workers will have the confidence and knowledge to safely and comfortably work in the woods. ATV/Gentle logging training is offered as an added day with the landowner chainsaw training program._

I pictured gentlemen in formal attire stopping while skidding a log and saying to their coworker on another skidder, _After you_. And the coworker saying, _No please, after you_, and after a few more _After yous_, they shake hands, offer a _Pardon me_, and gracefully bring the turn in, holding the little pinkies of their hands, out at a straight angle while steering. 

I haven't found the hats but they do sell wool long underwear. Pardon me for using the term, underwear. :yoyo:

Still haven't found the hats, but it looks like they had a session in Oregon.
http://www.celebratebig.com/pacific...chainsaw-tree-felling-yarding-bucking-course/


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## Humptulips (Dec 7, 2010)

slowp said:


> Yet another thing I won't understand unless I see it. And probably won't.
> Oh well.
> 
> I have seen the old "tree fallen by mistake onto the skyline" but no wedges were used, the rigging saw always has a bent bar, and even the guy who lectured to always lower the skyline when a tree is being felled near it, didn't do so. Nothing broke. Just bruises from diving behind a big stump.
> ...



It's pretty easy to understand. If your only tree big enough for a support or even a tail tree is too far off the corridor you can put your guylines up and fall it towards the corridor so that it stops on the edge of the corridor. The trick is to get your guylines with the right amount of slack in them so they come tight when the tree gets to where you want it. A lot of holding wood is prefered and you block the back cut with a wedge so it can't bounce back.

Not sure about the bent bar part but if you are falling trees down the corridor it is often best to usethe skyline as a rub to keep them in the corridor. Then again sometimes the skyline needs to come down. For sure though if you never put one across you haven't fell very many. It can get pretty dicey if the butt comes off the stump and you get that teeter totter effect.Had to say that so I got teeter totter into two threads.


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## WesternSaw (Dec 7, 2010)

*stihl 440*

Thanks for the explanation on GOL
Lawrence


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## HEAVY FUEL (Dec 7, 2010)

I thought the stump antenna was a great idea! That way you don't hit it with the 4 wheeler in the snow. You shouldn't have cut it off.


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## stihl 440 (Dec 7, 2010)

Gologit said:


> Okay, take a deep breath, relax, and read my post again. I wasn't attacking you on any kind of personal level. I don't see any need for you to rant and rave. Just because you and I don't agree on something isn't any reason to get your blood pressure up.
> 
> My view of GOL remains unchanged. It's too structured and verges on being dogmatic in it's approach to technique in the woods. Most of the people out here consider it a joke. We also have a hard time taking seriously anybody who says that GOL is the only way to go. I understand that you're not doing that and that shows that you probably have more intelligence than you've exhibited here so far.
> 
> But...if you want to get all upset and yell about something, and if it makes you feel better, go right ahead. I'll give your viewpoint, based on your experience, the consideration it's worth.



I wasnt really trying to rant and rave.....if you took it that way...sorry...it takes alot more than that to make me mad....im a pretty laid back person actually...loud as some say...but laid back....lol BUT alot of people "sterotype" a boring backcut as GOL...which in some cases its very different. And i didnt really say that i didnt agree with you..did i?....i understand the way you cut....and i would imageine that since your knowlegable as well...that you would understand where im comming from and how we cut hardwood. We're both different from eachother..but we're in different timber as well. If I cut in your location....I would use west coast falling techniques....and vice versa on you im sure....again sorry if you took it the wrong way....this IS the internet...no need for anyone to get worked up...lol...although some do...lololol


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## Taxmantoo (Dec 7, 2010)

slowp said:


> _ATV & Gentle Logging Training
> 
> This training program is for woodland owners and workers who want to extract trees from their property safely and without the use of expensive professional logging equipment. With the use of an ATV, small tractor, pug, or something that can pull a tree behind, the wood can be pulled out in a low impact manner, with little or no residual damage to the property._


_


A local sawmill operator used to haul logs with a homemade log arch and an old ATC 185s. He winched the whole log up into the arch, which was at least 15' long. Couldn't hardly tell where he had been._


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## Gologit (Dec 7, 2010)

stihl 440 said:


> I wasnt really trying to rant and rave.....if you took it that way...sorry...it takes alot more than that to make me mad....im a pretty laid back person actually...loud as some say...but laid back....lol BUT alot of people "sterotype" a boring backcut as GOL...which in some cases its very different. And i didnt really say that i didnt agree with you..did i?....i understand the way you cut....and i would imageine that since your knowlegable as well...that you would understand where im comming from and how we cut hardwood. We're both different from eachother..but we're in different timber as well. If I cut in your location....I would use west coast falling techniques....and vice versa on you im sure....again sorry if you took it the wrong way....this IS the internet...no need for anyone to get worked up...lol...although some do...lololol



Fair enough.


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## GASoline71 (Dec 7, 2010)

Everybody gets a cookie!!!



Gary


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## slowp (Dec 7, 2010)

The bent bar comment is something a logger told me, and I have actually heard it from most of the rigging crews. He said that for some reason, the rigging saw is always percieved to have a bent bar. It doesn't always have it, but that is what is claimed. 

Since then, I have heard it several times, that's the rigging crew saw and the bar is bent. Once by a hooktender who was falling trees for rigging--bent bar, another crew complained, and recently there were big eyes because the crew took the boss's saw and he had to use their saw, which they said had you guessed it, a bent bar. Maybe it is a local thing?


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## Humptulips (Dec 7, 2010)

slowp said:


> The bent bar comment is something a logger told me, and I have actually heard it from most of the rigging crews. He said that for some reason, the rigging saw is always percieved to have a bent bar. It doesn't always have it, but that is what is claimed.
> 
> Since then, I have heard it several times, that's the rigging crew saw and the bar is bent. Once by a hooktender who was falling trees for rigging--bent bar, another crew complained, and recently there were big eyes because the crew took the boss's saw and he had to use their saw, which they said had you guessed it, a bent bar. Maybe it is a local thing?



Bent bar, Hmm. Sure that isn't a technical term for a poorly filed chain.


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