# Monkey puzzle tree



## RAG66 (Mar 1, 2012)

I'm about to remove monkey puzzle tree. So a few questions. What type of gloves could I use? How heavy is this punk? What is the botanical name, my wife says it's a relative of the Norfolk island pine? Any true answers, advice, and suggestions are welcome. This thing looks and feels dangerous. :msp_ohmy:


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## RAG66 (Mar 1, 2012)

Guess I answered the question of what it is, a Chilean pine. But now how to approach it? I see some 15 views of this thread, no one has done one of these?


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## squad143 (Mar 1, 2012)

I was one of the viewers, mostly because the thread title caught my eye. 

Had to look it up. Interesting tree.

Sorry, can't help you. Have not come across one of those yet. Maybe somebody on the west coast can help.

Botanical name: Araucaria araucana

Identify Monkey Puzzle Tree - Manage the Monkey Puzzle Tree - Araucaria araucana

Best of luck.


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## capecodtree (Mar 1, 2012)

*monkey puzzle*

Most of your questions can be answered with minimal research on google. Do not cut down the mp's. Contact a local tree mover and sell them! Around here a nice mp can be sold for BIG money. better yet dig and wrap yourself, the pain could be worth 5-10k. good luck jim


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## RAG66 (Mar 1, 2012)

No saving this one. It is near 2 ft at the base and about 30 - 40ft tall. I need to figure out how to handle the branches. I may call a local guy with a brush grapple self loader.


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 1, 2012)

Araucaria imbricata. Massive cones. You can probably use a hand saw for limbing. Sometimes it is easier because they are not as scaffolded as Norfork. If your roping, use a pulley or block off the trunk and not the limbs. Decent gloves are ok. Just watch for cones above you that might fall. Your groundies will like it less than you.
Jeff


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## capecodtree (Mar 1, 2012)

*big monkey puzzle*

30-40' wow! I've never seen one bigger than 15-20'. better you than me. good luck, jim


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 1, 2012)

capecodtree said:


> 30-40' wow! I've never seen one bigger than 15-20'. better you than me. good luck, jim



50'-60' is common here.
Jeff


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## tree md (Mar 1, 2012)

I've seen one in CA and have a pic of one in one of my books. I'm just curious, what makes them so valuable?


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## ozzy42 (Mar 1, 2012)

Here where I am ,on the west coast of Fl.They have been calling a few of these trees by the wrong name for as long as I can remember.I did too until I did some googleing.

It seems what they call a Norfolk Island pine is really a Cook Island pine & what everybody calls a Monkey Puzzle tree here is actually a true Norfolk Island pine .

So all it leaves me with is::monkey:


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## capecodtree (Mar 1, 2012)

*monkey puzzle*

Monkey puzzle trees are few and far between here. As with anything, trees out of the "norm" for an area are considered unique, demanding more $$. I have only seen them used in an ornamental, "feature tree", capacity. Other than the name, they don't do much for me. jim


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## mr. holden wood (Mar 1, 2012)

RAG66 said:


> I'm about to remove monkey puzzle tree. So a few questions. What type of gloves could I use? How heavy is this punk? What is the botanical name, my wife says it's a relative of the Norfolk island pine? Any true answers, advice, and suggestions are welcome. This thing looks and feels dangerous. :msp_ohmy:



I hope you bid it really high. One of the bigger outfits around here, advised me to take what you think would be a high bid and then tripple that. Best bet would be a crane and a clam truck.Wear many layers, leather gloves and use pitch forks and tarps. Depending what you run for a chipper load those nasty branches one by one. You most likely got the bid cause know one elses wanted it.Have fun.


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## mr. holden wood (Mar 1, 2012)

capecodtree said:


> Monkey puzzle trees are few and far between here. As with anything, trees out of the "norm" for an area are considered unique, demanding more $$. I have only seen them used in an ornamental, "feature tree", capacity. Other than the name, they don't do much for me. jim



One mans trash is another mans treasure. Nobody wants anything to do with these trees around here.


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 1, 2012)

ozzy42 said:


> Here where I am ,on the west coast of Fl.They have been calling a few of these trees by the wrong name for as long as I can remember.I did too until I did some googleing.
> 
> It seems what they call a Norfolk Island pine is really a Cook Island pine & what everybody calls a Monkey Puzzle tree here is actually a true Norfolk Island pine .
> 
> So all it leaves me with is::monkey:



I don't know the people you call 'they', but, they should not be your only source. I think the Cook Island is a name change, I told you the botanical name. A true Norfolk is scaffolded perfectly and a monkey is a mess. If you can not tell the difference between a Monkey and a Norfolk, you are not looking. We have in abundance Monkey, Norfolk, bidwillii, and cumminghamii, ( the bunya-bunya and the hoop). Stop listening to people you call 'They'.
Jeff


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## squad143 (Mar 1, 2012)

Read somewhere that woodturners (bowl makers) like to use that wood.

You may want to contact some wood workers in your area. They probably won't pay you for it, but may take a few pieces. No sense in all of it going to waste.

I do that sometimes with basswood. The carvers seem to like it.


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## mr. holden wood (Mar 1, 2012)

jefflovstrom said:


> I don't know the people you call 'they', but, they should not be your only source. I think the Cook Island is a name change, I told you the botanical name. A true Norfolk is scaffolded perfectly and a monkey is a mess. If you can not tell the difference between a Monkey and a Norfolk, you are not looking. We have in abundance Monkey, Norfolk, bidwillii, and cumminghamii, ( the bunya-bunya and the hoop). Stop listening to people you call 'They'.
> Jeff



Love it when you get feisty JL. Something to be said for knowing the scientific names when it comes to tree ID.


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 1, 2012)

mr. holden wood said:


> Love it when you get feisty JL. Something to be said for knowing the scientific names when it comes to tree ID.



Ha ha, I'm not really feisty (right) but I could go out tomorrow and take pics of the different one's. Cook Island is in my understanding a name change for what ever reason. I've been a SoCal tree guy since 1977 and we do have a lot of them. The worst part is the cone's. If one hit's you, you will know it. A Norfolk is no way a Monkey in disguise. 
Jeff


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## RAG66 (Mar 1, 2012)

Ok so all I said in the begining was "my wife said it was a relative of Norfolk Island Pine". Thanks Jeff for gettin in the mix. After I posted I went back to gggooogggllle and did my "light research". Yeah it's a Chilean Pine and they can get huge, this one is not a size challenge but I'm thinking of the ground guys. Does it chip ok??? I already have a bowl turner speaking for most of the big trunk wood. Anyone ever split this stuff, could you use it for firewood or is it like palm inside?


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## beastmaster (Mar 3, 2012)

I have done a few of them. The bunya bunya and monkey puzzle look the same but one has soft leafs and one has hard leafs.(by leaves I mean those green things on the end of the branches)
You'll want to ware gloves, and the branches are really brittle. Like Jeff said, watch out for those massive cones. The wood is tough on the out side, use sharp gaffs. The branches, the trunk and the leaves will all cut you. I don't ware gloves when I am in a tree and have done them no problem, but I try not to touch them. They have lots of branches. Last one I did I used a bunch of slings and tied off 5 or more at a time and lowered them. You can cut a 1/3 of the way throu and push em with the saw and they'll snap.
It's the ground guys that are screwed. Dragging and chipping those long mean branches is a big pain.
I would rather do a Monkey puzzle then a big silk floss tree or Peruvian pepper. They're not that bad.


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## RAG66 (Mar 3, 2012)

Well we're going to do this tree either next week or week after so I'll be sure to let everyone know how it goes. So this one has hard, sharp "leaves". Which one is it? I have seen some around here that look more organized with fewer branches, this one is a mad house kinda bushy. I thought it was the chilean pine but as always we call one tree by several names....


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 3, 2012)

Monkey puzzle is native to Chile, but I never heard it called a chilean pine. Just as a bunya-bunya is native to Australia and not called an australian pine.
Jeff


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## BlackOakTreeServ (Mar 3, 2012)

RAG66 said:


> Well we're going to do this tree either next week or week after so I'll be sure to let everyone know how it goes. So this one has hard, sharp "leaves". Which one is it? I have seen some around here that look more organized with fewer branches, this one is a mad house kinda bushy. I thought it was the chilean pine but as always we call one tree by several names....



Take some pics of it before and after you remove it.....had an HO have me look at his monkey puzzle, what an interesting tree.


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## RAG66 (Mar 4, 2012)

I am intending on taking pictuers. This is if I don't have to call an aid car.... On the day of the bid I barely touched the outer foliage and wispered a cuss! This is a nasty tree. I'll be back with pictures....


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 4, 2012)

Stole the pic, but hey,
Jeff 
View attachment 227370


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## jefflovstrom (Mar 4, 2012)

Seriously, take a good hand saw, you don't need a chain saw that much until you start chunking it out. Probably drop the whole top with a hand saw. Much quieter and more control. It wont be bad, unless you are a groundie. 
Jeff


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## RAG66 (Mar 4, 2012)

I hate to say it but time is money. Unless your saying it cuts really easy, the limbs are right at the size of being too big to be efficient with a hand saw. I'm all for getting a good work out but the suffering ground guys want it to be over. I'm still looking for some good ideas on how to handle this nasty bugger, for the sake of the guys. :msp_unsure:


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## rbtree (Mar 4, 2012)

mr. holden wood said:


> One mans trash is another mans treasure. Nobody wants anything to do with these trees around here.




And you would be wrong....The wood is prized by craftsmen. 

Tree Cycle got in trouble (no permit- the first violation under Seattle's new significant tree ordinance.) when they removed the largest one in town..near 40" dbh. And nearly way more trouble when Peter had Mike lower him into the crown. The first pick weighed about 10k lb, considerably more than Mike was good for at that radius. Lucky for all involved, Mike and his crane stayed rooted to the ground. Had it been me, I would have limbed it and chipped it as it was close to the street. Just wear leather gloves. Dragging the limbs by the tips hurts less. Watch out for your shoulders when in the tree...and all body parts. Meyer Wells was the happy recipient of the logs.

Believe it or no, but Kathy Holzer and her crew once took 14 yards of chips out of one, just deadwooding it....and thinning it....geesh, the last thing I'd wanna do is climb into the canppy of an MP.

I've only ever removed one. It was barely 16" dbh and 40-50 feet tall, but produced 12 yards of chips.


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## rbtree (Mar 4, 2012)

RAG66 said:


> Well we're going to do this tree either next week or week after so I'll be sure to let everyone know how it goes. So this one has hard, sharp "leaves". Which one is it? I have seen some around here that look more organized with fewer branches, this one is a mad house kinda bushy. I thought it was the chilean pine but as always we call one tree by several names....



There is only one araucaria in Wa State, the species is auracana. Young ones are very symmetric. so are mature MP's, but they become very dense and round headed with age.

There are 19 species within the genus. As always, google is your friend 
Araucaria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.


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## rbtree (Mar 4, 2012)

jefflovstrom said:


> Stole the pic, but hey,
> Jeff
> View attachment 227370



Jeff. I believe the mature cones are very rare here in Wa. I've never seen one on the ground. I do recall them from the '60's when I attended college in Pasadena.


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## mr. holden wood (Mar 4, 2012)

rbtree said:


> And you would be wrong....The wood is prized by craftsmen.
> 
> Tree Cycle got in trouble (no permit- the first violation under Seattle's new significant tree ordinance.) when they removed the largest one in town..near 40" dbh. And nearly way more trouble when Peter had Mike lower him into the crown. The first pick weighed about 10k lb, considerably more than Mike was good for at that radius. Lucky for all involved, Mike and his crane stayed rooted to the ground. Had it been me, I would have limbed it and chipped it as it was close to the street. Just wear leather gloves. Dragging the limbs by the tips hurts less. Watch out for your shoulders when in the tree...and all body parts. Meyer Wells was the happy recipient of the logs.
> 
> ...



Still say its a trashy tree doesn't do much for me. Everyone in king county knows what the dbh is for removals, some abide but most don't . Not the first word ive heard of guys exceeding it. You got a HTE cert if not you better stick to pruning. Im all for preserving trees but its starting to get ridiculous.


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## rbtree (Mar 4, 2012)

It's a Seattle ordinance, not King County, as I reckon you know. That was early on, within months of the new rule. Peter shoulda known about it. Scott Baker was interviewed by the media afterwards. I never did ask Peter what became of the case.

Actually, I've only gotten DPD involved a few times. We did remove an aesculus without a permit that was over 24" by a coupla inches--the threshold for that species...but it was way in the back yard, and a complex one involving a court case due to a cantankerous and unreasonable neighbor. My client caved and just paid the whole bill rather than try to get the neighbors to pay half or all. They loved the tree, though it was way too large for the spot. I'd pruned it in 2007. Tiny work zone, had to lower all but the last 20 feet, which I dropped in rounds onto a postage stamp sized spot as I always try to avoid negative blocking...and because I can....when you grow up, you can too.....lol...

Just funnin' ya......I've no use for the craziness that is AS these days.

Monkey puzzles are not garbage...it just seems that way when they mature.....Till they get over 25 or so in age and 35 in height, they are very attractive. But they surely aren't fun to work on.....I've no complaints that its been well over 8 years since we've even limbed one. I still remember the yard---about 110th near Northgate.


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## beastmaster (Mar 4, 2012)

RAG66 said:


> I hate to say it but time is money. Unless your saying it cuts really easy, the limbs are right at the size of being too big to be efficient with a hand saw. I'm all for getting a good work out but the suffering ground guys want it to be over. I'm still looking for some good ideas on how to handle this nasty bugger, for the sake of the guys. :msp_unsure:



I have one of the big silkys and I limb pines and firs and cedars all the time with it if there under 4 in. I blast with that thing. On a monkey puzzle if the branches are under 4 or so inches, you would probable only have to take one or two strokes and they'ed pop.


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## beastmaster (Mar 4, 2012)

As far as the ground guys go, they should ware good gloves and some thing to protect their arms. I sure hope you don't have a chuck and dive chipper.( smaller branches make excellent back scratcher.)


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## RAG66 (Mar 6, 2012)

Lucky I'm north of the red line. Still requires a permit though in MC. So RB I'll have more wood than I want how can I get hold of that guy who took the last stuff? I may keep some but would love to see it get used. My friend is a bowl turner and is going to take a good chunk.


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## squad143 (Mar 6, 2012)

A bit of a thread derail...... Sorry.


Rb, like your online photo site. Some amazing pictures.


Derail over......continue as you were.


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## RAG66 (Mar 9, 2012)

OP here, I have done the job! I will say RBtree was right about one thing, we had a FULL load of chips... The prickley, sharp, nasties were not that bad. I bought my groung guy some thick welding gloves, we wore the standard Carhart double fronts. I did ware my jacket and chaps in the tree. I had a few branches skid over my shoulder but not bad. I was surprised it was not as bad as I had thought. This all goes to show F/E/A/R stands for False/ Evidence/ Appearing/ Real & Pain is weakness leaving the body! So the next time someone says "it can't be done", tell them to get out of the way so you can finish what they wouldn't start!::thumbsup::


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## beastmaster (Mar 9, 2012)

beastmaster said:


> I would rather do a Monkey puzzle then a big silk floss tree or Peruvian pepper. They're not that bad.


QUOTE
I was surprised it was not as bad as I had thought. This all goes to show F/E/A/R stands for False/ Evidence/ Appearing/ Real & Pain is weakness leaving the body! So the next time someone says "it can't be done", 

I would never steer you wrong brother.


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## RAG66 (Mar 9, 2012)

Done is done..... I had to have the last word!


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## mikewhite85 (Oct 22, 2012)

I am taking out a huge bunya bunya tomorrow, which is very similar to a Monkey Puzzle. 3' DBH with a crane. First one I have done. Glad for the information in this thread.


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## beastmaster (Oct 22, 2012)

Major difference between a bunya bunya and a monkey puzzle, or so I've been told, is the bunya bunya isn't as scracthy and hard, but soft. I'm talking about the green stuff that passes for leaves or needles. Either way you won't have any trouble with it Mike. Be safe.


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## imagineero (Oct 22, 2012)

Sounds like guys in this thread have been talking about 4 completely different trees. Things get confusing with common names because many trees have different common names in different areas. 

The true monkey puzzle tree is Araucaria araucana. Anyone who has been touched by it will never forget it. It looks soft, but it's sharp and prickly. The only thing worse than a live one is a dead one. Each leaf on a dead mokey puzzle is almust like a guitar plectrum, but with a sharp spikey tip. Mokey puzzle pictured below;







The second tree is the bunya pine, Aracaria bidwillii. These are native to australia, and grow quite a bit taller than the monkey puzzle. 150'+ is not uncommon. They're sometimes called a 'false monkey puzzle tree' because the leaves look similar, but touch them both side by side and there can be no misunderstanding. The bunya is quite soft. They are also recognisable by their enormous cones, which grow larger than a football and weigh up to 35lbs. Ouch. Foliage below;






The third and fourth tree being discussed in this thread are the cook pine (Araucaria columnaris) and the norfolk islad pine (Araucaria heterophylla). These last two are nothing at all like the first two, in the form of the overall tree or in the shape and distribution of leaves. The first two trees are large in the crown, while the last two taper. The norfolk is very 'christmas tree like' in appearance, and the leaves are soft and brittle. They make a god awful mess. They're an easy take down, except for the white sap which glues your hair. They have a single leader and are scaffolded and symmetrical, with branches in whorls. The trouble is, all the foliage falls off. It's not unusual to have to cleanup 20 tarp loads of foliage on an average take down. 3 feet deep, everywhere. Foliage of norfolk shown below;






I can't comment on the cook pine so much. Ive seen them but never worked in one. They look similar to the norfolk in bark, foliage and overall form. I'd have a hard time picking them apart. 

Shaun


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## mikewhite85 (Oct 28, 2012)

*Bunya Removal pics*

We took this bad boy out last week. Was a little scratchy but not too bad. Was disappointed not to find anyone of the huge cones

View attachment 259578
View attachment 259579
View attachment 259580
View attachment 259581


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## imagineero (Oct 28, 2012)

Nice work on the crane rigging! You don't see guys use bridle rigging very often, but it's a great technique. It's freaky watching a guy taking out big sections of spar with a single choker and seeing the butt kicking out any which way.

Shaun


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## beastmaster (Oct 30, 2012)

Great Job Mike.


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## mikewhite85 (Oct 30, 2012)

Thanks! Might need you on Friday, Wade, if you are available.

We have another crane job tomorrow. Big walnut tree fell on a house. I think it's about my 5th or 6th crane job. Glad you introduced me to crane work... and climbing split tail... and SRT!


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## beastmaster (Oct 30, 2012)

Ah shucks Mike, my pleasure. 
I'v been keeping thurs. and Friday open for you if you need me. 

You took to those crane jobs like a duck to water. 

Don't get my new saw dirty.:msp_biggrin:


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## mikewhite85 (Oct 31, 2012)

Ha i actually put it into the rotation this morning. Joel dropped one of the 200's from a tree yesterday so I was down a saw. 

I will get you a new NEW saw tomorrow that will be spotless.

My dealer said that newer 201's are actually a lot better than the first ones that came out last year. Stihl has made a few adjustments after hearing all the complaints. The one I just bought is awesome. It was really screaming today. 


Thanks for teaching me stuff.


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## mikewhite85 (Oct 31, 2012)

Oh I think Friday is a go. I'll text you the job address soon. Actually Thus might be a go too since Jeff is still out of town and Joel wants to sleep in after Halloween. Easy trimming to do.


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