# Moving to Hood River OR



## jsnspence (Jul 13, 2010)

Here goes my first post...

I am moving to Hood River Oregon and I am going to try my best to get a job with a logging company. :jawdrop:

Simply put, I have always admired the profession and wanted to become a logger and cut big timber.

I may be putting the cart far ahead of the horse as I don't know how hard it may be to secure a job with a logging company let alone as a cutter....

Okay with that said I want to purchase 1 or 2 saws. The only saw I currently own is a 260pro that I modified the muffler on with help from this web site. After reading many posts I am ready to purchase a 660 1st and then maybe a 460.

I have a bunch of other questions but will start with just this.


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## tlandrum (Jul 13, 2010)

in my humble opinion dont waste your time, there are too many established professional fallers in need of work for someone with zero experience to hope for a job. i would also go as far as to say that i would not want to be working with a company that would hire a newby with no experience over an experienced faller in this dangerous profession. jmho


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## jsnspence (Jul 13, 2010)

tlandrum2002 your advise is well taken. Especially about being about being wary of anybody who would bring on somebody with no experience vs hiring an experienced faller. I hope some of my other skills might allow me to secure a position lower in the hierarchy of the logging profession first. 

I have owned an emergency commercial sewer and water construction company for years now. This is also dangerous work and labor intense. I am a good excavator operator with more than 6000 hours of experience, I know rigging, I can splice & eye splice wire rope, I know all the knots and eye splices used on synthetic wire rope replacement such as Amsteel Blue Tenex, I have my class A and have plenty of experience lowboy and tractor, I can run a loader with the best of them... to name a few.


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## slowp (Jul 13, 2010)

This is a joke, right? 

The industry is in a slump. Very experienced and good loggers have sold or had their equipment repoed. Two that I know of are still in the business but no longer working for their own companies--after a struggle they found work with others.

I'm a forester who usually is out checking up on logging jobs for contract compliance. I'm doing planning/recon work instead. There might be a couple outfits starting up soon. A couple. This isn't Hood River either. 

The market took and upswing in the spring and then crashed again last month.

If you are moving to Hood River, you might get a job working in a restaurant or bar or motel. It is more of a yuppie sports place than a logging town. Oh, it has a brewery too.


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## Jacob J. (Jul 13, 2010)

As said above, there's already too many seasoned veterans out of work who are among the best of the best in the industry. I can't really say "don't waste your time" but I'm going to say it anyways- don't waste your time on logging and timber falling.

If you really want to cut wood for a living, establish a professional tree service business close to a metropolitan area and then farm yourself out to logging companies as a cutter once in a while after you are established.


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## hdcoop72 (Jul 13, 2010)

jmspence It is not like the old days where after repeated trips to the site and dressed properly you'r hired. Please keep in mind Oregon has a very high unemployment rate. Non the less good luck!!!! It has been a wonderful state to live in for many a year.


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## jsnspence (Jul 13, 2010)

I should have known better than to admit I would like to get a job in the logging industry.

And no this is not a joke. With a little digging i have found 5 logging companies based in hood river. I guess they only log sites that can be reached by windsurfing or kite boarding. It sounds cool and all the jobs are catered by Starbucks.

I have no delusions of grandeur. It is very tough out there for anybody even remotely connected to the construction industry.

Never the less I am going to give it a try. 

Perhaps the following would have been a better post...

"How many and of what size saws would be a typical professional fallers in the Northwest usually have with them on a daily basis?"

I work with cut off saws everyday and we always have no less than 2 on every job because if one takes a shiitake we are dead in the water.


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## slowp (Jul 13, 2010)

Hooookay. Good luck.


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## gavin (Jul 14, 2010)

If it's what you really want to do, and you honestly think you will be good at it, I would say go for it. But keep a back up in mind. I wouldn't waste thousands of dollars on gear until you have a job secured. If you are persistent and show a good attitude someone will probably give you a try if they have an opening. Almost for certain you would have to work on the rigging and buck on a landing before you be given a chance to break in as a faller. Some guys pick it up real fast and some guys never pick it up.

Logging is an up-and-down industry and fallers are the first to be out of work when things slow down. That said, I love my job even with all the downsides to it!


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## kkottemann (Jul 14, 2010)

660 or 395xp with 28 or 32" bar. Working for a tree service is probably a better bet for employment and a starting point. Slow p is right, bad time to log....also you might be able to pick up a good saw at a local pawn shop in the area.


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## jsnspence (Jul 14, 2010)

Gavin do guys bucking still use such a big damn saw?


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## gavin (Jul 14, 2010)

I would assume things work more or less the same in the States as they do here. The guys bucking on the landing are generally supplied company saws. Fallers have to supply their own gear as they are subcontractors. Its really hard to say what saws guys use because it depends a lot on personal preference and the size of wood you are in. The most popular saw that I see here are modified husky 390's. They happily pull a 36" bar and do fine with a 42" bar when in big wood on steep ground. Also popular are highly modified 372's and lots of guys use stihl 660's. There's still guys using 395's but most guys that previously used them have switched to the 390's. On a landing I would expect a husky 390 or a stihl 460 to be pretty common. Like I said, I wouldn't go out and buy anything though.


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## IcePick (Jul 14, 2010)

The only "logging" I've ever done has been lot clearing and thinning for firewood. If you get a job with a tree service, you may be able to do some of that. Some days you might spend all day nip plucking little ornamentals though. Tree service would get you some experience rigging, climbing, and running a saw. If the job market picks up for logging, then you could give it a go, but you got to start somewhere.


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## Jabuol (Jul 14, 2010)

jsnspence said:


> Here goes my first post...
> 
> I am moving to Hood River Oregon and I am going to try my best to get a job with a logging company. :jawdrop:
> 
> ...



If you want to move out here and try your hand at logging I think you should do it. That's the only way you'll ever know for sure if you really want to do it or not. And if you can really handle what logging really is.

It's not like AxeMen...not even a little. Not even close. You _might_ get a job on the landing bumping knots or you might wind up in the rigging. Either job will probably be with the kind of logger that goes through a lot of hired help and is always on the look-out for fresh meat that doesn't know anything. Those kind of jobs, if you survive them, are good for experience but not much else. Expect busted rigging, rubber checks, and sporadic work.

You'll work steep ground, eat tons of dust, commute maybe a couple of hours each way for no pay, and stay on the hustle all day long.

As far as a falling job goes you can pretty much forget it until you've been around for a couple of years and people know you. Falling, especially out here, is a specialized trade. A good faller can make a bad job easier...a bad faller can drop an outfit from profit to loss in no time at all. Loggers look for the best fallers that will work for the money they're paying and there are always fallers out of work and looking to cut.

The last rookie my BIL and I broke in was five years ago and that was my son. My BIL is more the faller than I am and he's been working with my son all this time and is just now about ready to turn him loose on the easier stuff.

If you showed up around here with your new saws, the wrong kind of clothes, boots as yet unscuffed, your tape bright blue and not scratched up, and not even coming close to speaking enough of our unique language to at least ask the right questions, and asked for a falling job....well, people would just laugh at you. Maybe they'd even let you drop a tree, just for the entertainment value and so they'd have lunch time conversation.

You seem sincere about wanting to log and I hope you get a chance. But look at it for what it is. After people know you you might get a chance but the odds are against it. Most new fallers get in through knowing somebody and somebody already knows them. Play with your firewood a little...sometimes _getting_ to cut wood is a lot more fun than _having_ to cut wood.

Jabuol


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## forestryworks (Jul 14, 2010)

Jabuol said:


> If you want to move out here and try your hand at logging I think you should do it. That's the only way you'll ever know for sure if you really want to do it or not. And if you can really handle what logging really is.
> 
> It's not like AxeMen...not even a little. Not even close. You _might_ get a job on the landing bumping knots or you might wind up in the rigging. Either job will probably be with the kind of logger that goes through a lot of hired help and is always on the look-out for fresh meat that doesn't know anything. Those kind of jobs, if you survive them, are good for experience but not much else. Expect busted rigging, rubber checks, and sporadic work.
> 
> ...



Excellent post.


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## 74fencer (Jul 14, 2010)

Go for it! You will never know until you try for yourself. Good Luck


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## jsnspence (Jul 14, 2010)

EXCELLENT.... Jabuol thank you very much for taking the time to provide such thoughtful advise. Many of the first responses to this thread were completely dismissive and discouraging. I know there are many guys on this site with a vast amount of knowledge. I am a small business owner I know its going to be hard as hell to get a job. I am old enough know what kind of outfit I want to work for. Undoubtedly I will have to start by earning my keep doing the less skilled, run your ass off positions, like setting chokers. I would happily do so. I would set chokers, be on the landing, bucking, load trucks, anything. 

Owning a sewer & water company I have gone through many guys that show up with new boots, no hard hat, brand new safety vest, no rain gear, no water, can't start a cut off saw. The best is the first time you get a guy out on a water main break when it 10 below and 2am. 

I know there is a language that goes with every specialized trade. This is far more apparent in dangerous trades. Let me tell you... in about 2 minutes of talking to a prospective pipe layer I can see through BS. Of course this comes from experience and knowing your trade backwards and forwards. 

Excavator operators are the same way. If all a guy has done is mainline sewer or water putting in new housing developments with NOTHING to dig around, we don't want any operator with only that type of experience. See attached pictures. Yes that is the MetroDome where the Vikings play and the Twin use to...

I have Wesco's w/o calks so that will have to change. See pics. I plan on sending them in to get rebuilt and get screw in calks. I have Hoffman 14" steel toe packs w/o calks so that will have to change to...


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## slowp (Jul 14, 2010)

Well, there is a local hooktender, who went into the septic tank and excavating business, and is very very good at it, so maybe it could work the other way. 

Hint on the Wescos, see if they can put in regular calks (pronounced corks) because the exclusive Wesco spikes can only be bought from Wesco and are spendy. The regular ones are carried at saw shops and are less expensive. 

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## Jacob J. (Jul 14, 2010)

Jabuol said:


> You seem sincere about wanting to log and I hope you get a chance. But look at it for what it is. After people know you you might get a chance but the odds are against it. Most new fallers get in through knowing somebody and somebody already knows them. Play with your firewood a little...sometimes _getting_ to cut wood is a lot more fun than _having_ to cut wood.
> 
> Jabuol



That's about the best way to put it.

jsnspence, what kind of cardio do you have? Can you honestly put 95 pounds on your back and run up and down steep, rocky terrain at high elevations all day long? Seriously? 

Falling is the most arduous work in logging besides tending hook. I've got twenty years in and the bad knees and bad back to show for it. Most of the guys on here who've cut full time (Gologit, Burvol, Oregoncutter, Spotted Owl, Joesawer, Hammerlogging, Randymac, Tarzanstree) all have the wear and tear on their bodies to show for it. You better have some damn good conditioning in place if you want to roll on a tower side under the rigging or cut full time.

Like others have said, break in first with a tree service or on a high-lead landing to get some saw handling skills and core strength. There is nothing in the way of an exercise routine that will prepare a person for full-time cutting. Running, aerobics, and weight lifting do help.


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## jsnspence (Jul 15, 2010)

Jacob J fitness is a huge part of the job and a love it. I rowed in lightweight class (under 165lb) in college and my 2000 meter time was 6 seconds away from US Rowing National team times. After that I raced road bicycles as a category 1/Pro for 5 years. 

Working in the field and mostly in the office for the last 3 years my cardio has suffered and I am all around much bigger than I was when I was 25. I am 35 now 6' 195lbs. I love being fit and working hard. I might be the only guy on the planet that liked stacking hay when I worked on a farm in high school. Fitness is key to being fast and remaining effective all day not just the first hour of the day after that dragging your sack for the rest of the day. 

Fitness is not something most people consider but I sure do. I bet you dont see many choker setters that go 300lbs. 

AxMen KEEPS being mentioned and speaking of AxMen a few of those dudes are just plain F-ing FAT. Probably more the ride around in the pickup and get out and yell alot types or more office boys. 

I have never hired a fat person because they simply have a hard time working in a small trench box or heaven-for-bid a manhole or utility vault.


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## jsnspence (Jul 15, 2010)

slowp I am also looking into branching out from Mpls with my sewer & water work. For one thing utilities are not buried stupid deep in OR because it dosent stay cold enough to make ground frost 5 feet deep or more. 

"Hint on the Wescos, see if they can put in regular calks (pronounced corks) because the exclusive Wesco spikes can only be bought from Wesco and are spendy. The regular ones are carried at saw shops and are less expensive."

slowp do you know or does anybody know the history of why calks are pronounced corks? Is it just another one of those things that make BSers stick out?


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## Metals406 (Jul 15, 2010)

Good luck in the rigging!

I was in my early 20's and fit (played a lot of basketball) and lost 20 pounds my first month in the woods. I wasn't fat, at all, and I lost that much weight. Like JJ said, no amount of exercise can prepare you for working in the woods. Now at 35, going in green, I think you're gonna get your butt handed to you. You'll also be working waaay above sea level with lungs used to thicker air.

My first week I wasn't sure if I wanted the job. . . I was dead azz tired, beat up, sore, and waking up at 2am -- riding to work for 2+ hours jammed in a crummy like a sardine -- and being over the hill at 6am.

Now I can tell you. . . I miss the woods terribly. Once you commit, and make it more than a few weeks, it gets in your blood.

It's a love hate relationship though, and you have to love it to do it, cause ain't no sane person on the planet that would log for any other reason. It's hard, dangerous, underpaid, dangerous, inglorious, dangerous work. You won't ever get rich, you'll live paycheck to paycheck, and wonder why you aren't a cab-rat making 20 bucks an hour with the AC and radio on.

Give it a go though. . . I guess you'll never know until you try, whether or not it's something you want to or can do.


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## RandyMac (Jul 15, 2010)

Fitness is only one facet, a lively mind, situational awareness and the ability to absorb impacts is some of the rest. Do you like to work hurt? You do have a lot of good expirience in other things, you exhibit interest, to me, you come off just a bit preppy and I think you are ten years to late getting started.
By all means, give it a try. You might give forestry a go, there is some hard work.


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## slowp (Jul 15, 2010)

I do not know why calks are corks, or why a creek is a crick, or some people pronounce Washington as Warshington.

I've only worked on the forestry side of things. Some of what I did has now been taken over by Exchange Students. The good thing? You get paid to run, climb, hike, etc. You can eat anything you want, and stay thin. But, if you get laid off, hurt or for us, promoted up, you put on the pounds. 

We don't have ice fishing here. That has been a complaint of a few transplanted Minnisodians. The other complaint is about the 9 months of gray fog and drizzle. Hood River is sunnier than here. 

Don't look down on fat people. I prefer the "round" description. I'm one of them. Note the "eat anything" paragraph...then hurt, then got softer jobs in the woods. Some of the round loggers started out in the rigging, grew up in logging, and will still be more agile than you. They will know the shortcuts and how to move quickly in the brush. They won't be as fast as the crew, but they'll be faster than you. 

An example? We hired a former Navy Seal. He went out with me to mark timber. Just wandering around looking for faded paint and then repainting trees for the cutters. I let him take the lead. I went to work behind, painting away, and was able to easily fill in the rest of the unit behind. 

We stopped, he was mad. He started in at me about not pulling my weight, slacking off. Mind you, I was in charge. I waited. When his rant was over, I took him back and showed him the ground I'd covered. His mouth dropped open, and "How could *you* do that much?" came out. Because I was on the round side, he thought I couldn't move. I had been marking timber for 10 years and knew how to do it efficiently. He only had the fitness factor. 

So watch how you judge. That grumpy yarder engineer was once a darn good hooktender, but his back went. Same for some of the truck drivers. 

Randy Mac brought up a good point. Can you stand to get poked, bruised, thumped, and do you know how to fall (body wise) or turn a fall into a not so bad fall? Get up and do it again? You will have all of the above happen, some of it daily. Right now I'm "working hurt". I need to see a foot doctor. But I fit right in, I can participate in Team Gimping. I have been following a "I might git retired" former faller around who has worn out his second artificial hip. At our age, gimping is permitted. 

There, I'm telling you the bad stuff, because then you won't be surprised. Buy the industrial size of ibuprofen, and don't flaunt the college degree.


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## jsnspence (Jul 15, 2010)

Slowp I dint graduate.


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## coastalfaller (Jul 15, 2010)

RandyMac said:


> Fitness is only one facet, a lively mind, situational awareness and the ability to absorb impacts is some of the rest. Do you like to work hurt? You do have a lot of good expirience in other things, you exhibit interest, to me, you come off just a bit preppy and I think you are ten years to late getting started.
> By all means, give it a try. You might give forestry a go, there is some hard work.



I absolutely agree, RandyMac! Aptitude is one of the biggest factors. You can learn efficiency (most people anyway!) and production will come, but you can't teach aptitude. Just a couple weeks ago I had to let a guy go who was a great kid, had the "want", but just did not have the bush savvy and wasn't going to get it. Tough thing to do, telling him he was not going to make it as a faller, but better that than having him get himself killed eventually.


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## huskyhank (Jul 15, 2010)

Good thread.

jsnspence - I would not leave an established successful business right now. Its a rare thing to have plenty of work and customers who pay their bills.

One of my high school teachers (who is in his 80s and still going strong) has a farm on the edge of what is now a very populated area. The family grows some crops but mostly they are in the recreation business. They run a year round "Farm Camp" and grow lots of pumpkins for Halloween. Kids and parents love the place - they have a booming business.

I think someone ought to open a "Fantasy Logging Camp". A little like the car or motorcycle racing schools or mountain guide schools. That might be how to make some money from logging - even when the real business is down.


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## floyd (Jul 15, 2010)

you are in for a reality check . 5yr ago there were probably 25 companies around here.

Cost of living is high as well. 

Did I mention the wind has been blowing steady 20 mph for 3 days now? Then it gusts to 50 mph.


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## GASoline71 (Jul 15, 2010)

When I was settin' chokes I was 17 ans was broke in by a cat that was in his late 50's... I could barely keep up with him. I was a football star for Pete' sake! How is this grumpy old cuss out runnin' me day after day...

Took me a while, but I finally had to stop chasin' him, and started settin' riggin'. 

Well... you seem to have the right attitude... since everyone that said "Don't do it" or " Be prepared" or "Get ready for an eye opener" you have dismissed...

So I guess the 'tude is there... 

I ain't no super logger... never was. Worked my ass off out there though. Like Jacob said... I got the banged up body to show for it too... Not a lot of cats quitting an already productive line of work to come out for crap pay, long hours, blah blah blah...

I ain't gonna beat that horse any longer. Buck up... get out in the woods... only way you're gonna find out is to do it.

Hope you succeed... seriously. 

Gary


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## jsnspence (Jul 15, 2010)

floyd said:


> you are in for a reality check . 5yr ago there were probably 25 companies around here.
> 
> Cost of living is high as well.
> 
> Did I mention the wind has been blowing steady 20 mph for 3 days now? Then it gusts to 50 mph.



Can you elaborate? What might be a reality check? 25 companies 5 years ago and now there is zero? I assume you didn't mean it might be easier to find a job than what my bleak reality leads me to believe because all 25 companies are going strong.

As for the cost of living, Minneapolis is slightly higher and higher yet if local and state taxes are factored in.

I know about the WIND also its literally like no where else.


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## GASoline71 (Jul 15, 2010)

Workin' in 50mph wind in the woods is a whole new ballgame... Can get pretty hairy.

I think what he meant by there being 25 companies around 5 years ago... is that of those 25... there are prolly 3 left.

Nobody that I know of up here in the North of WA State is hiring... A buddy of mine that is a contract faller just got let go from a big job, and the company is gonna continue the rest of the fallin' with cats that are already in the company.

It's thin up here mang! 

Gary


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## hdcoop72 (Jul 15, 2010)

GASoline71 said:


> When I was settin' chokes I was 17 ans was broke in by a cat that was in his late 50's... I could barely keep up with him. I was a football star for Pete' sake! How is this grumpy old cuss out runnin' me day after day...
> 
> Took me a while, but I finally had to stop chasin' him, and started settin' riggin'.
> 
> ...



jsnspence.

First off, please pardon my mispelling of your handle from an earlier post.

You've heard some good info from informed people in the regional timber industry. You have also received good insight across the board.

If your family is all on board and ready for the trek and what lies beyond?...That's a big plus. It sounds as though you do have other skills to fall back on.

My own logging experience only consisted of chasing landing, setting chokers cat side, high lead,slack line,and pulling rigging. I was 19 and 20 at the time, and it was an experience that I will never regret or forget!

I have been in construction since then...In my neck of the woods I know how hard it is for one to make a living working with your hands and by the sweat of your brow.Having said that,your quest to be a timber faller is a journey that only you know whether that fork in the road is the one to take.


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## floyd (Jul 16, 2010)

Oh yeah, did I mention those companies have 3 guys working? One runs the feller buncher, one runs the delimber & one is scooting around on a grapple skidder or crawler tractor.

Oops, nother one loading trucks. That's 4 guys.


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