# Tree business without a climber?



## boda65 (May 1, 2009)

I am looking at things I can do in the event of a layoff. I am not an arborist but I do have decent knowledge of proper pruning techniques. I have trimmed my own trees with a cherry picker, and have cut a fair amount of trees for firewood. When I first looked into this, I was thinking small, a bucket truck and chipper/dump unit. 1, maybe two helpers. And insurance,of course. After many hours spent on this forum, it seems all tree trimmers either climb, or have climbers. After some thought, I realize there are many trees in backyards,etc that are simply inaccessable to a bucket truck. I am too big and clumsy to be 50' up a tree. My question is: Can a guy get by without climbing, with just a bucket truck? Do any of you have a full time business w/out climbers? Thanks.


----------



## ddhlakebound (May 1, 2009)

Sure, you can get by without a climber....It's called landscaping.


----------



## Raymond (May 1, 2009)

What's your beef with climbers?


----------



## JeffL (May 1, 2009)

You could always do utility work.


----------



## Labman (May 1, 2009)

I think I would rather hire somebody like you than the local butchers I never see doing anything but topping trees from a bucket truck. The only climber I have seen working had an orange truck parked out at the road.


----------



## Blakesmaster (May 1, 2009)

*You could always hire a sub for climbing jobs.*

But, with this economy, I doubt you'd get many jobs. I don't quite understand your logic about starting your own business in the service sector because you lost your job. A lot of other people have already lost/will lose their jobs and the last thing they'll want to spend money on is unnecessary things like tree work. Unless a tree is on their house, which the big boys with tons of equipment, a huge client list and thousands in advertising a month always get. Plus, there's a HUGE difference in cutting a few trees for firewood/doing some trimming at your house with a "cherry picker" and actually operating a tree business. In order to be productive and safe you have to know what your doing. Get a job draggin' brush for one of the big boys and you'll find out pretty quick that you and craftsman don't have what it takes.


----------



## Tree Pig (May 1, 2009)

boda65 said:


> I am not an arborist but I do have decent knowledge of proper pruning techniques. I have trimmed my own trees with a cherry picker, and have cut a fair amount of trees for firewood. When I first looked into this, I was thinking small, a bucket truck and chipper/dump unit. 1, maybe two helpers. And insurance,of course. After many hours spent on this forum, it seems all tree trimmers either climb, or have climbers. After some thought, I realize there are many trees in backyards,etc that are simply inaccessable to a bucket truck. I am too big and clumsy to be 50' up a tree. My question is: Can a guy get by without climbing, with just a bucket truck? Do any of you have a full time business w/out climbers? Thanks.



I am not an arborist but I do have decent knowledge of proper pruning techniques 
you may regret that statement in here.

I am too big and clumsy to be 50' up a tree
too clumsy maybe but never say too big, there are some true giants in here that climb, of course there are also some of them tall skinny guys (you know the one you always see at walmart with the fat woman)


----------



## Raymond (May 1, 2009)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> I am not an arborist but I do have decent knowledge of proper pruning techniques
> you may regret that statement in here.
> 
> I am too big and clumsy to be 50' up a tree
> too clumsy maybe but never say too big, there are some true giants in here that climb, of course there are also some of them tall skinny guys (you know the one you always see at walmart with the fat woman)


You come to Missouri to go to Walmart?


----------



## tomtrees58 (May 1, 2009)

ddh lakebound said:


> Sure, you can get by without a climber....It's called landscaping.


 + 1:homm3 grin 2 orange: every buddy thinks they can do tree work not you cant get to far with a bucket 55' truck 100' tree :monkey: tom trees


----------



## boda65 (May 1, 2009)

Blakesmaster said:


> Get a job draggin' brush for one of the big boys and you'll find out pretty quick that you and craftsman don't have what it takes.



There is no need to talk down to me. Yes, I know my crapsman is not suited for professional use. I'd be gittin' one o them thar orange and white wuns. You can judge my saws but don't tell me I don't have what it takes. You don't know me nor my work ethic. I intentionally stated up front my limited experience and lack of professional experience. I have been in a number of different professions and have succeeded and excelled at them. I am currently in manufacturing, which needless to say is in perilous times.

I am not pretending to be a "big boy". I am just at the beginning stages of looking into things I have SOME knowledge of, and the viability and expense of trying to feed my family by doing them. I would imagine most of you who own your own business didn't start out with a fleet of equipment and a couple dozen employees. We all have to start somewhere.

As far as dragging brush with the "big boys", If no one is hiring, how do you propose doing that? I would rather try and fail on my own merits, than sit around bemoaning the economy and relying on the government and others to take care of me.



Raymond said:


> What's your beef with climbers?



I have no beef at all with climbers. It's just my idea of starting small, with as little hired help as possible. If things went well, I'd absolutely hire a climber.



ddhlakebound said:


> Sure, you can get by without a climber....It's called landscaping.



LOL good one, that did give me a chuckle


----------



## Tree Pig (May 1, 2009)

Raymond said:


> You come to Missouri to go to Walmart?



Missouri... what does Missouri have to do with it. I actually refuse to step foot in a walmart but I love that line so I had to use it.


----------



## Blakesmaster (May 1, 2009)

boda65 said:


> There is no need to talk down to me. Yes, I know my crapsman is not suited for professional use. I'd be gittin' one o them thar orange and white wuns. You can judge my saws but don't tell me I don't have what it takes. You don't know me nor my work ethic. I intentionally stated up front my limited experience and lack of professional experience. I have been in a number of different professions and have succeeded and excelled at them. I am currently in manufacturing, which needless to say is in perilous times.
> 
> I am not pretending to be a "big boy". I am just at the beginning stages of looking into things I have SOME knowledge of, and the viability and expense of trying to feed my family by doing them. I would imagine most of you who own your own business didn't start out with a fleet of equipment and a couple dozen employees. We all have to start somewhere.
> 
> As far as dragging brush with the "big boys", If no one is hiring, how do you propose doing that? I would rather try and fail on my own merits, than sit around bemoaning the economy and relying on the government and others to take care of me.



Sorry for talking down to you. I should have said you WITH your craftsman don't have what it takes. Seriously though, you just learned what DBH was and how to noodle a week ago, I would highly doubt your skill in this field. You can have the work ethic of a pack mule but when the rubber hits the road you need experience, period. Have you tried calling the local players? You never know, they might be hiring. And there's nothing wrong with starting small, my biz is still in the embrionic stage but ya gotta know what you're doing. I'm a newb compared to most but can cut circles around anyone in this town who figured they'd buy a "cherry picker" and be a tree man. And there's A LOT of those guys and I must admit, they get under my skin. So, hat's off to your venture, but you should think about learning this trade from the ground up.


----------



## treemandan (May 1, 2009)

Blakesmaster said:


> Sorry for talking down to you. I should have said you WITH your craftsman don't have what it takes. Seriously though, you just learned what DBH was and how to noodle a week ago, I would highly doubt your skill in this field. You can have the work ethic of a pack mule but when the rubber hits the road you need experience, period. Have you tried calling the local players? You never know, they might be hiring. And there's nothing wrong with starting small, my biz is still in the embrionic stage but ya gotta know what you're doing. I'm a newb compared to most but can cut circles around anyone in this town who figured they'd buy a "cherry picker" and be a tree man. And there's A LOT of those guys and I must admit, they get under my skin. So, hat's off to your venture, but you should think about learning this trade from the ground up.



What is the hell is " to noodle"?


----------



## Raymond (May 1, 2009)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> Missouri... what does Missouri have to do with it. I actually refuse to step foot in a walmart but I love that line so I had to use it.


 You described most couples there and everywhere around here for that matter.


----------



## treemandan (May 1, 2009)

Raymond said:


> You described most couples there and everywhere around here for that matter.



Yeah, it didn't take long to figure that.


----------



## treemandan (May 1, 2009)

treemandan said:


> What is the hell is " to noodle"?



answered the question myself. OHH, that's noodling! Rip cuts? I never knew. Thanks A.S.! Good shavings to toss in the fire box in the morning.
I only have a 9 inch chipper so I tend to do some nooddling on some pine here and there.


----------



## tree md (May 1, 2009)

I had a carpenter working with me last year who did tree work on the side. He had some equipment, a good working knowledge of ground work and was a decent salesman for this area. We worked well together, got along OK and worked together for a good while. Deal was, I do all the climbing on the jobs with my gear, my insurance and make half the money. Things didn't work out forever and now he still does tree work but it is either he does what he can reach from a ladder or he spends a large portion of his profit paying a climber. Me, I make all the profit and pay out little for ground help. I guess you could have a tree service without being a climber but unless you have deep pockets I can't see you lasting very long in this economic environment or being very profitable. The guy that I worked with will always be a carpenter trying to be a treeman whereas I'll always be a treeman doing my thing. Treework is the only thing I know and has been a full time gig for me for many years. No carpenter, landscaper, guitar picker, professional wrestler will ever be able to compete with me on my level.


----------



## Raymond (May 1, 2009)

Boda65 you'll have to excuse my tree buddies here.
A third of our reason for lack of work is because of new guys thinking just because they have a pickup, chainsaw and rake they can do tree work.

If you get any good responses you should feel lucky.


----------



## boda65 (May 1, 2009)

Blakesmaster said:


> Sorry for talking down to you. I should have said you WITH your craftsman don't have what it takes. Seriously though, you just learned what DBH was and how to noodle a week ago, I would highly doubt your skill in this field. You can have the work ethic of a pack mule but when the rubber hits the road you need experience, period. Have you tried calling the local players? You never know, they might be hiring. And there's nothing wrong with starting small, my biz is still in the embrionic stage but ya gotta know what you're doing. I'm a newb compared to most but can cut circles around anyone in this town who figured they'd buy a "cherry picker" and be a tree man. And there's A LOT of those guys and I must admit, they get under my skin. So, hat's off to your venture, but you should think about learning this trade from the ground up.




I'm sorry if I took you wrong.  You just sounded very condescending to me personally. I understand what you were trying to say now.Actually, your post quoted here is exactly the kind of info I want. I can take the cold hard truth. I just bristled a little because I thought you were attacking me personally.

I tend to do lots of reading and research before I do anything. Every tree I've taken down has fallen exactly where I intended. Again, I know this by no means makes me an expert, and adding roofs and power lines into the mix makes it a whole different ballgame. If I could find a part time brush dragging job now while I've still got a job might be a wise choice to get more experience.


----------



## tomtrees58 (May 1, 2009)

:hmm3grin2orange:


treemandan said:


> What is the hell is " to noodle"?



that's what we called the drunks at 11 pm your { noodle} :hmm3grin2 tom treesorange:


----------



## NCTREE (May 1, 2009)

boda65 said:


> There is no need to talk down to me. Yes, I know my crapsman is not suited for professional use. I'd be gittin' one o them thar orange and white wuns. You can judge my saws but don't tell me I don't have what it takes. You don't know me nor my work ethic. I intentionally stated up front my limited experience and lack of professional experience. I have been in a number of different professions and have succeeded and excelled at them. I am currently in manufacturing, which needless to say is in perilous times.
> 
> I am not pretending to be a "big boy". I am just at the beginning stages of looking into things I have SOME knowledge of, and the viability and expense of trying to feed my family by doing them. I would imagine most of you who own your own business didn't start out with a fleet of equipment and a couple dozen employees. We all have to start somewhere.
> 
> ...



Education and training, education and training my friend. Their are lots of good resources out there you just have to find them. Plenty of short climbing and educational classes that are relatively cheap with loads of knowledge. (Arbormaster training classes. Join ISA, their is plenty of seminars) The best way to learn to climb though is through an apprentice program or working for a tree company. 

If you are going to learn while you earn than just practice good pruning techniques. Don't be another schwack attack tree service.


----------



## kipper (May 1, 2009)

I have asked myself this same question time after time. Especially on a saturday morning at 0800 when the climber I hired to help me take out a tree has not shown up or called. It only took once for me, I let him go and placed an add for another climber. 

I do this on the weekends and evening because I like it and it pays fairly well. I also do landscaping and lawn care at the same time. I work a professional 8-5 job during the week. I only take on jobs I am comfortable with (both money and skill needed). I have a list of three climbers that climb for a living and I could call any of them today and have them ready to work on saturday. The reason this would happen is because I treat them with respect and they respect me. They know when I call it is cash on the spot as soon as they are out of the tree and it is stricty business. No BS of waiting for the customer to pay and then get the check cashed and then find them. I started doing tree work when my lawn care customers asked for it. I got tired of giving the business to the local guys who would not show up, come on the job stoned or not do a good job. I have given my customers quotes before and they have awarded the job to me even though I was higher because they knew I would take care of the job. They even told me I was more expensive. I price the job to make money and I pay the folks that help me good. I know what it is like for a kid to come through the neighborhood with 20.00 dollar cuts. Likewise I do not lowball the tree work because I know there are folks out there making a living doing this. 

If you provide excellent service, yoy will not have any problems. And if you do not take jobs you can not do you will be fine. Nobody likes competition because it causes them to look at their position.

Good Luck !


----------



## Tree Pig (May 1, 2009)

Raymond said:


> You described most couples there and everywhere around here for that matter.



lol


----------



## tree MDS (May 1, 2009)

kipper said:


> I have asked myself this same question time after time. Especially on a saturday morning at 0800 when the climber I hired to help me take out a tree has not shown up or called. It only took once for me, I let him go and placed an add for another climber.
> 
> I do this on the weekends and evening because I like it and it pays fairly well. I also do landscaping and lawn care at the same time. I work a professional 8-5 job during the week. I only take on jobs I am comfortable with (both money and skill needed). I have a list of three climbers that climb for a living and I could call any of them today and have them ready to work on saturday. The reason this would happen is because I treat them with respect and they respect me. They know when I call it is cash on the spot as soon as they are out of the tree and it is stricty business. No BS of waiting for the customer to pay and then get the check cashed and then find them. I started doing tree work when my lawn care customers asked for it. I got tired of giving the business to the local guys who would not show up, come on the job stoned or not do a good job. I have given my customers quotes before and they have awarded the job to me even though I was higher because they knew I would take care of the job. They even told me I was more expensive. I price the job to make money and I pay the folks that help me good. I know what it is like for a kid to come through the neighborhood with 20.00 dollar cuts. Likewise I do not lowball the tree work because I know there are folks out there making a living doing this.
> 
> ...



Stick to whacking weeds, much safer, treework is best left to the treemen - not lawn jockeys doing it partime. 

BTW: I hope little Timmy and his push mower steal all your work.


----------



## kipper (May 1, 2009)

whacking weeds !!! How orginal !!! By the way what makes a "real treeman"?

How do you know if my ground guy has 20 years experience working in the tree industry?

How do you know anything about my business?

I know, if I tell you !!! and I didn't tell you any of that so you assumed and played right in to my hand.

You are entitled to your opinion but when you make it known in a public forum you might want to the facts.

too funny !!!


----------



## tree MDS (May 1, 2009)

kipper said:


> whacking weeds !!! How orginal !!! By the way what makes a "real treeman"?
> 
> How do you know if my ground guy has 20 years experience working in the tree industry?
> 
> ...



Well kipper, in my opinion treeguys should do treework, not land loving lawn jockeys looking for a quick saturday buck doing some easy trees with some climber that you probably dont even have comp on. Again, just my opinion.


----------



## tree MDS (May 1, 2009)

BTW, a "real treeman" can climb his own trees.


----------



## NCTREE (May 1, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> Well kipper, in my opinion treeguys should do treework, not land loving lawn jockeys looking for a quick saturday buck doing some easy trees with some climber that you probably dont even have comp on. Again, just my opinion.




Nah! no "real treemen" here just a couple of old ladies!


----------



## kipper (May 1, 2009)

Have workers comp and insurance since the begining. Thanks for your opinion though. 

When did I tell you I don't / can't climb? If I could would that make me a "treeman"? Come on I really want to be in the "in" crowd !!! Oh yeah, I didn't tell you,,, you just thought again....


----------



## treemandan (May 1, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> BTW, a "real treeman" can climb his own trees.



I agree, stick to the mower all you land loving lawn jockeys.


----------



## kipper (May 1, 2009)

Would love to, just one problem with that. My wallet gets much fatter with tree money than grass money !!!


----------



## treemandan (May 1, 2009)

kipper said:


> Would love to, just one problem with that. My wallet gets much fatter with tree money than grass money !!!



are you saying that you are a landloving lawn jockey? Those guys ain't to bright dude. Maybe you want to make that clear.


----------



## Raymond (May 1, 2009)

Don't they have a lawn mowing chat room you guys could join?

You guys could take and post pics of lines you make in the grass, weedeating tips, blade sharping and steep hills you brave guys have to mow.


----------



## kipper (May 1, 2009)

I do love the land, Lawn Jockey is someone's opinion... 

What should be clear is that if the man want's to do business without a climber than he should be supported and not degraded by the "Professionals".
He will learn quick enough if he can make money and provide a quality service.


----------



## ddhlakebound (May 1, 2009)

kipper said:


> I have asked myself this same question time after time. Especially on a saturday morning at 0800 when the climber I hired to help me take out a tree has not shown up or called. It only took once for me, I let him go and placed an add for another climber.



This certainly seems to imply that you can't or don't climb. 

Your other post......this one



> I know, if I tell you !!! and I didn't tell you any of that so you assumed and played right in to my hand.
> 
> You are entitled to your opinion but when you make it known in a public forum you might want to the facts.
> 
> too funny !!!



brought a scene into my mind.....hopefully it amuses you all like it did me.....


Tree MDS
But if there can be no
arrangement, then we are at an
impasse.

kipper
I'm afraid so -- I can't compete
with you physically. And you're
no match for my brains.

Tree MDS
You're that smart?

kipper
Let me put it this way: have you
ever heard of Plato, Aristotle,
Socrates?

Tree MDS
Yes.

kipper
Morons.

Tree MDS
Really? In that case, I challenge
you to a battle of wits.

kipper
To the death?

Tree MDS nods.

kipper
I accept.

Tree MDS
Good. Then pour the wine.

As kipper fills the goblets with the dark red liquid, Tree MDS pulls a small packet from his clothing, handing
it to kipper.

Tree MDS
Inhale this, but do not touch.

kipper
(doing it)
I smell nothing.

Tree MDS
(taking the packet back)
What you do not smell is called
iocane powder. It is odorless,
tasteless, dissolves instantly in
liquid, and is among the more
deadlier poisons known to man.

kipper
Hmm.

CUT TO:

kipper

watching excitedly as Tree MDS takes the goblets,
turns his back. A moment later, he turns again, faces
kipper, drops the iocane packet. It is now empty.

Tree MDS rotates the goblets in a little shell game
maneuver then puts one glass in front of kipper, the other
in front of himself.

Tree MDS
All right: where is the poison?
The battle of wits has begun. It
ends when you decide and we both
drink, and find out who is right
and who is dead.

kipper
But it's so simple. All I have to
do is divine from what I know of
you. Are you the sort of man who
would put the poison into his own
goblet, or his enemy's?

He studies Tree MDS now.

kipper
Now, a clever man would put the
poison into his own goblet,
because he would know that only a
great fool would reach for what
he was given. I'm not a great
fool, so I can clearly not choose
the wine in front of you. But you
must have known I was not a great
fool; you would have counted on
it, so I can clearly not choose
the wine in front of me.

Tree MDS
(And now there's a
trace of nervousness beginning)
You've made your decision then7

kipper
Not remotely. Because iocane
comes from Australia, as everyone
knows. And Australia is entirely
peopled with criminals. And
criminals are used to having
people not trust them, as you are
not trusted by me. So I can
clearly not choose the wine in
front of you.

Tree MDS
Truly, you have a dizzying
intellect.

kipper
Wait till I get going! Where was I?

Tree MDS
Australia.

kipper
Yes -- Australia, and you must
have suspected I would have known
the powder's origin, so I can
clearly not choose the wine in
front of me.

Tree MDS
(very nervous)
You're just stalling now.

kipper
(cackling)
You'd like to think that, wouldn't
you?
(stares at Tree MDS)
You've beaten my giant, which
means you're exceptionally strong.
So, you could have put the poison
in your own goblet, trusting on
your strength to save you. So I
can clearly not choose the wine
in front of you. But, you've also
bested my Spaniard which means
you must have studied. And in
studying, you must have learned
that man is mortal so you would
have put the poison as far from
yourself as possible, so I can
clearly not choose the wine in
front of me.

As kipper's pleasure has been growing throughout, Tree MDS's has been fast disappearing.

Tree MDS
You're trying to trick me into
giving away something -- it won't
work --

kipper
(triumphant)
It has worked -- you've given
everything away -- I know where
the poison is.

Tree MDS
(fool's courage)
Then make your choice.

kipper
I will. And I choose --

And suddenly he stops, points at something behind Tree MDS

kipper
-- what in the world can that be?

Tree MDS turning around, looking.

Tree MDS
What? Where? I don't see anything.

CUT TO:

kipper

busily switching the goblets while Tree MDS has his
head turned.

kipper
Oh, well, I-I could have sworn I
saw something. No matter.

Tree MDS turns to face him again. kipper starts to
laugh.

Tree MDS
What's so funny?

 kipper
I'll tell you in a minute. First,
let's drink -- me from my glass,
and you from yours.

And he picks up his goblet. Tree MDS picks up the
one in front of him. As they both start to drink, kipper
hesitates a moment.

Then, allowing Tree MDS to drink first, he swallows
his wine.

Tree MDS
You guessed wrong.

kipper
(roaring with laughter)
You only think I guessed wrong --
(louder now)
-- that's what's so funny! I
switched glasses when your back
was turned. You fool.

CUT TO:

Tree MDS

There's nothing he can say. He just sits there.

CUT TO:
kipper

watching him.

kipper
You fell victim to one of the
classic blunders. The most famous
is "Never get involved in a land
war in Asia." But only slightly
less well known is this: "Never
go in against a Sicilian when
death is on the line."

He laughs and roars and cackles and whoops and is in all
ways quite cheery until he falls over dead.


----------



## kipper (May 1, 2009)

Interesting read and rather amusing.


----------



## Tree Pig (May 1, 2009)

ddhlakebound said:


> This certainly seems to imply that you can't or don't climb.
> 
> Your other post......this one
> 
> ...




Just to finish it off


ddhlakebound 

And to think, all that time it was your cup that was poisoned.


Tree MDS

They were both poisoned. I spent the last few years building up an immunity to iocane powder.


----------



## treemandan (May 1, 2009)

And ddhalkebound? You could have summarized BUT I guess that is that. Well put. It wouldn't surprise me to find if both were immune but the old adage remains... and it must

Can't climb? F off! you know nothing. If ya did you wouldn't be puttin down all that mulch. That goes for all use landloving lawn jockeys. AND CONE YOUR DAM TRAILERS YOU DIM SOB'S.


----------



## ozzy42 (May 1, 2009)

kipper said:


> whacking weeds !!! How orginal !!! By the way what makes a "real treeman"?
> 
> How do you know if my ground guy has 20 years experience working in the tree industry?



I worked for a guy that spent 25yrs at ford installing interiors.
So do you think he can rebuild my transmission?


The tree industry consist mostly of trimming,and removing trees that the average HO can not safely do.
With that being defined for you now,you need an experienced climber that knows how to do the work that you wish to charge people for.

As far as climbers being no shows ,or showing up drunk, or stoned.
Maybe you are not hireing the right kind of help.

Good climbers with exp.and responsible work ethics,don't work for peanuts.
Pay for a hired drunk,and that is exactly what you get.




A good climber will take a high % of the price you get for tree work for one reason



















He's worth it.











.


----------



## Rickytree (May 1, 2009)

Not to thread jack but the treeman Dan and Raymond both never commented on the pictures of the wide spread locust. As far as this thread goes, I've worked with lawn jockeys and they all think climbing and trimming trees is so easy. Well when your as great as me it is. You never know till you try but beware YOU COULD DIE!! or get seriously :censored:UP and besides I am not "above average climber" ask anyone around these parts that seen me climb, I'm bloody ridiculous!! with a side Crazy!


----------



## windthrown (May 1, 2009)

I have a tree service, but I do not climb much any more. Bad back. I sub out the big climbing to some local tree butchers, and I do all the small climbing, groundie stuff and chipping. They are more than happy to get the work these days. They also sub me out for chipping. Works both ways. 

I was on a chipping job earlier in the week and there were 2 guys clearing an acre or so of "backyard" trees. They were laid off iron workers. They were happy to be working and making some side money. Owner hired them but they had no chipper. So he hired me with my chipper. It takes a lot of creativity to survive in this economic down turn, and compete with the wave of cheap Mexicans here.


----------



## Raymond (May 1, 2009)

Rickytree said:


> Not to thread jack but the treeman Dan and Raymond both never commented on the pictures of the wide spread locust. As far as this thread goes, I've worked with lawn jockeys and they all think climbing and trimming trees is so easy. Well when your as great as me it is. You never know till you try but beware YOU COULD DIE!! or get seriously :censored:UP and besides I am not "above average climber" ask anyone around these parts that seen me climb, I'm bloody ridiculous!! with a side Crazy!


Wide spread locust Ricky? I don't recall, sorry.


----------



## Rickytree (May 1, 2009)

Raymond said:


> Wide spread locust Ricky? I don't recall, sorry.



Hey no need to apologize! It's all good Brother from a different mother!


----------



## ropensaddle (May 1, 2009)

Ok here it is fellow tree dudes and gals, what we have here is, "failure to communicate"
I suggest all my brothers that we hire some of our buddies to be land & lawn jockeys part time and our ground dudes the rest of the time. Hear me out, I know no self respecting tree man wants to do jockey work but at least then we could put a handle on the rif raff stealing our work usually without proper ins & license.


----------



## tree md (May 1, 2009)

I think I'm gonna head to the pawn shop tomorrow, pick up a couple of second hand lawn mowers, hire a couple of lawn care professionals and start selling lawn service and landscaping...

Not knocking the OP for asking the question. He seems like a cool dude. 

But it's a long way to the top if you wanna rock and roll!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1iR2Wi3u5o


----------



## ropensaddle (May 1, 2009)

tree md said:


> I think I'm gonna head to the pawn shop tomorrow, pick up a couple of second hand lawn mowers, hire a couple of lawn care professionals and start selling lawn service and landscaping...
> 
> Not knocking the OP for asking the question. He seems like a cool dude.
> 
> ...



Yup bout time for a cost cutter ad to scare off the rif raff lol!


----------



## Raymond (May 1, 2009)

tree md said:


> I think I'm gonna head to the pawn shop tomorrow, pick up a couple of second hand lawn mowers, hire a couple of lawn care professionals and start selling lawn service and landscaping...
> 
> Not knocking the OP for asking the question. He seems like a cool dude.
> 
> ...


Get it brotha..


----------



## xander9727 (May 1, 2009)

Since it's impossible to be completely partial.........one has to decide what they are doing. If the Arboricultural industry gets slow does it make sense that I start doing plastic surgery on the side? This may seem like a ridiculous comparison but hear me out. To be a professional in this industry you need several distinct attributes. 
1. A good work ethic. If you have a good work ethic why do you need side work? Couldn't you do more of what you currently do to make more money? This would avoid having to learn or master a new skill set. With a good work ethic and professional experience you could get a similar job that pays more from someone in your field that has a higher wage and less work ethic. Lets pretend you have a good work ethic and you just want a challenge (i.e. change).
2. Knowledge in what your doing. This isn't a general knowledge (I can mix two cycle fuel) but an in depth knowledge of tree species and physiology, physics, climbing and biology/chemistry related to tree work. Remember were striving to be professionals, just knowing is "some kind of a Maple" doesn't cut it.
3. Equipment. This isn't the bare minimum equipment to make a mess with, but the necessary equipment to perform tree work. This is Ropes (more than 2), climbing gear, saws (more than 2, we're pro's remember), a chipper, trucks (more than one), rakes, blowers, etc. This is a lot of money to spend for a weekend job.
4. Business basics. This includes insurance, advertising, accounting, estimate forms, uniforms, etc. The real aspects of a business not just the skeleton. We are trying to be professionals, still.
5. A tolerance for risk. You have to pay the bills in the summer and the winter. You need to spend money on advertising for jobs you don't have yet. You need to buy and repair equipment that you haven't paid for yet.
I know a lot of people would say this isn't necessary.........well I guess I can say that a medical degree and a hospital isn't necessary to be a doctor. You would say that puts lives at risk. I would relate that to doing tree work without the proper knowledge and/or equipment. You may say that one isn't as serious as the other.........I would say your not a professional.
I believe my job is as important, skilled, necessary and difficult as any other job and more than most. Most jobs don't require people to make decisions that determine the life or death of living organisms that are at times hundreds of years old. Most jobs don't place the workers lives in harms way on a daily basis if poor decisions are made. Most jobs don't require years of experience to be considered competent among their peers. Most jobs don't have a huge glut of uneducated people saying they can do them.
NEWS FLASH:

THIS AIN'T MOST JOBS!

The very idea that you can watch a couple of episodes of Axmen, go an buy a chainsaw and perform the same work I do is ridiculous. The neighbors paid the kid next door to paint their shed......that doesn't make him Picasso.
If you really sit down and figure out what it takes to be successful in this business most will find they need to concentrate on what they currently do. Most (90%) of guys who do work on the side are low ballers. They don't realize that the $2500 job they are doing really should pay $6000. What do you do if you get hurt on a side job? You can't collect workers comp and you can't go to work. I'm all for guys working in this industry just take it serious and do it full time. It's the part timers mistakes that drive up everyone's insurance rates.

If you not willing to put forth the effort and bear the risk of what it takes to be a professional, then I don't want you to associate yourself with those that do. You can't ask for respect.......you need to earn it. In this industry that is done through accomplishment. If you don't have the prerequisite accomplishment then don't get mad if you aren't respected on this forum. 

Lawnsite was created for a reason.

Tod


----------



## kipper (May 1, 2009)

Xander,

I can only think that you were communicating directly to me. I am fully aware of Lawnsite and know that there are some great resources for the lawncare industry over there. Just as here they do not appreciate someone trying to get in to "their" business. I am cool with that but I am also no beginner. I will address all of your issue items one by one so the message is very clear. 

1. The challenge and the enjoyment of side work is why I do it. It also provides side money for the people that help me.

2. Knowledge. I learn something new everyday as I am sure you do the same. Do I know it all? Hell no and I dont pretend to. But I am not scared to ask or try.

3. Buckingham spikes, weaver saddle and samson ropes, stihl MS250, 290, 460 and echo 330 trim saw, PTO chipper for my tractor because it works better than the junk you can find used and I like it, two 3/4 ton trucks, one 1 ton flatbed with stake sides and two 1/2 ton trucks, assortment of rakes, wedge's axe's and blowers.

4. Insurance. 2 million liability and workmans comp for all associates. No advertising, word of mouth works just fine. Accounting, quickbooks man it sure is easy at the end of the quarter. Estimate forms, emailed via blackberry on the site or printed and delivered if they prefer.

5.I know what it takes to do the jobs we do, it's part of the way we determine how much to charge. I am sure you the professional do the same thing.

In closing, maybe you are a little confused I never asked for respect from anyone. I know respect is earned I have certainly earned a lot of it. Oh by the way all of the equipment is paid for.

To the folks that would like to try their hand at lawncare come on down. One thing I like to see is someone starting out in an industry that has been very good to me and taught me soo much. And if you can't hack it then someone will come in behind you and do it dont worry.

My comments about the stoned, hungover tree workers are from experience of homeowners contacting local tree services in my area and do not represent anyone on this site (at least not that I know of) it is not a general comment about tree workers.

Good luck in your business, with the outlook you have showed you may need it.


----------



## ropensaddle (May 1, 2009)

kipper said:


> Xander,
> 
> I can only think that you were communicating directly to me. I am fully aware of Lawnsite and know that there are some great resources for the lawncare industry over there. Just as here they do not appreciate someone trying to get in to "their" business. I am cool with that but I am also no beginner. I will address all of your issue items one by one so the message is very clear.
> 
> ...



Ok correct me here if I am wrong but you run landscape insurance right?


----------



## kipper (May 1, 2009)

Landscape, Lawn Care, Tree removal and Trimming as well as commercial vehicle insurance. Doesn't everyone???


----------



## Rickytree (May 1, 2009)

Kipper You might be a lawn mower jockey but I still have respect for you more than the lazy scumbags that work for the government and muncipalities. These guys not only waste time and money but tonnes of fuel too. All they do is drive around in their top notch brand new vehicles. Hey, if your going to do :censored:all then go shut the truck off and do :censored:all!


----------



## treemandan (May 1, 2009)

Rickytree said:


> Not to thread jack but the treeman Dan and Raymond both never commented on the pictures of the wide spread locust. As far as this thread goes, I've worked with lawn jockeys and they all think climbing and trimming trees is so easy. Well when your as great as me it is. You never know till you try but beware YOU COULD DIE!! or get seriously :censored:UP and besides I am not "above average climber" ask anyone around these parts that seen me climb, I'm bloody ridiculous!! with a side Crazy!



Geez, really? I am sorry Ricky baby, its me ,The Dan, talking right now, I am going to head over there right now.


----------



## xander9727 (May 1, 2009)

Is trimming sort of like pruning.......only with a lawnmower. 
:-0


----------



## xander9727 (May 1, 2009)

treemandan said:


> Geez, really? I am sorry Ricky baby, its me ,The Dan, talking right now, I am going to head over there right now.



Dan,
You can't go there! It's Canada......they don't allow guns..


----------



## kipper (May 1, 2009)

Policy says trimming think what you want of it.


----------



## xander9727 (May 1, 2009)

That says volumes about the guy who wrote it.........and paid for it....


----------



## kipper (May 1, 2009)

yeah, we call it trimming, you call it pruning and we both make money... Go figure... On top of it we sell firewood in the winter as well. I guess I should not do that either? Certainly can not be in three different business !!!


----------



## ropensaddle (May 1, 2009)

kipper said:


> Landscape, Lawn Care, Tree removal and Trimming as well as commercial vehicle insurance. Doesn't everyone???



You have to be very careful insurance for tree work is different than landscaping and pruning
insurance many carry its higher but most important it covers you. It is getting to where you have to be a lawyer to friggin understand insurance declarations. Many landscapers here do it without insurance or they carry the landscape,prunning & dusting but heck illegals here are climbing barefoot and using machetes to cut them down I have a video of it been trying to figure out how to get it posted!


----------



## xander9727 (May 1, 2009)

In all seriousness I would make sure you are covered for heights over 25'. Your underwriter may think trimming is ornamentals and pruning is mature trees. Either way I would read the fine print to make sure you are well covered. I usually have these things reviewed because I am not an insurance expert and I don't have the time to become one. 

You can do as many businesses as you want. If you've read _Good to Great_ by Jim Collins you know that it is not what you can be good at that matters. What can you be the best at in the world (or at least your local area). If you concentrated 100% of your resources on landscaping, tree work, lawn care, etc., you would most likely be more profitable. There is a point where repetition produces efficiency. The more you do something the more efficient you become at it. This doesn't mean you can't make money in trees, building decks, cleaning windows, etc but it does mean most companies are most profitable when they are very vertically integrated.

Lawn care/landscaping takes different equipment and skills than tree work. There are some parallels but I'm sure I can clear an acre of trees more efficiently than you can. I'll bet you can take care of an acre of landscape/turf more efficiently than I can. It comes down to equipment and experience. I'll make more money on most tree jobs than a landscape company and vice versa for landscape jobs.


----------



## kipper (May 1, 2009)

I almost wrecked the truck coming home today. Turned in to my neighborhood and the third house on the corner had a 24 foot step ladder about halfway up a red oak and a hispanic hanging off of it cutting a 1 in diameter limb off. No rope anywhere in sight.


----------



## xander9727 (May 1, 2009)

kipper said:


> I almost wrecked the truck coming home today. Turned in to my neighborhood and the third house on the corner had a 24 foot step ladder about halfway up a red oak and a hispanic hanging off of it cutting a 1 in diameter limb off. No rope anywhere in sight.




Los ropas? Que no necesita ropas!


----------



## ropensaddle (May 1, 2009)

kipper said:


> I almost wrecked the truck coming home today. Turned in to my neighborhood and the third house on the corner had a 24 foot step ladder about halfway up a red oak and a hispanic hanging off of it cutting a 1 in diameter limb off. No rope anywhere in sight.



That is nothing I have got to figure out how to get my video loaded the illegals I am talking about were not tied in at the top and whacking limbs with a machete one slip 55 foot to death.


----------



## kipper (May 1, 2009)

In all seriousness I would make sure you are covered for heights over 25'. Your underwriter may think trimming is ornamentals and pruning is mature trees. Either way I would read the fine print to make sure you are well covered. I usually have these things reviewed because I am not an insurance expert and I don't have the time to become one. 

You can do as many businesses as you want. If you've read Good to Great by Jim Collins you know that it is not what you can be good at that matters. What can you be the best at in the world (or at least your local area). If you concentrated 100% of your resources on landscaping, tree work, lawn care, etc., you would most likely be more profitable. There is a point where repetition produces efficiency. The more you do something the more efficient you become at it. This doesn't mean you can't make money in trees, building decks, cleaning windows, etc but it does mean most companies are most profitable when they are very vertically integrated.

Lawn care/landscaping takes different equipment and skills than tree work. There are some parallels but I'm sure I can clear an acre of trees more efficiently than you can. I'll bet you can take care of an acre of landscape/turf more efficiently than I can. It comes down to equipment and experience. I'll make more money on most tree jobs than a landscape company and vice versa for landscape jobs. 

I agree 100% with this. I am often asked why work the day job? The answer is I am good at it, it pays well and there have been more than a few times I was happy to be sitting down at my desk on a Monday morning. It sometimes feels like I go to my day job to rest.


----------



## Rftreeman (May 2, 2009)

Raymond said:


> What's your beef with climbers?


this post made me want Cheeto's




tree MDS said:


> Stick to whacking weeds, much safer, treework is best left to the treemen - not lawn jockeys doing it partime.
> 
> BTW: I hope little Timmy and his push mower steal all your work.


It isn't impossible to do but and be good at it and know what you're doing....I do except for when litte Timmy follows me around with his push mower, weed eater, ladder, poulan chainsaw and some yellow twine he bought at wal-mart cutting my throat......lol



tree MDS said:


> BTW, a "real treeman" can climb his own trees.


Or, if he is just too damn lazy he can hire a climber.



kipper said:


> Would love to, just one problem with that. My wallet gets much fatter with tree money than grass money !!!


Mines split pretty even........yes I do both.........I'm having an identity crisis ...tree whacker......lawn jockey......tree whacker...........lawn jockey....oh forget it, I can't make up my mind........lol........does this mean I'm multitasking?



treemandan said:


> are you saying that you are a landloving lawn jockey? Those guys ain't to bright dude. Maybe you want to make that clear.


???????????? again, I'm having an identity crisis........



Raymond said:


> Don't they have a lawn mowing chat room you guys could join?
> 
> You guys could take and post pics of lines you make in the grass, weedeating tips, blade sharping and steep hills you brave guys have to mow.


yes, it's called ************ and they talk junk about tree guys just like tree guys talk junk about lawn jockeys.


----------



## tree MDS (May 2, 2009)

kipper said:


> I do love the land, Lawn Jockey is someone's opinion...
> 
> What should be clear is that if the man want's to do business without a climber than he should be supported and not degraded by the "Professionals".
> He will learn quick enough if he can make money and provide a quality service.



Whizzz... fwap, fwap, fwap....whizzz... fwap, fwap, fwap...

The other annoying thing is when I'm 60' up trying to communicate with the ground guys and theres some lawn jockey running a blower next door for what seems like hours....whaaa...whaaahhh...whaaahh.

Grrr...its like I just want to scream "DRAG YER A$$! YOU FN LAWN JOCKEYS!!"

Anyone else feel like that ever or is it just me??


----------



## Raymond (May 2, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> Whizzz... fwap, fwap, fwap....whizzz... fwap, fwap, fwap...
> 
> The other annoying thing is when I'm 60' up trying to communicate with the ground guys and theres some lawn jockey running a blower next door for what seems like hours....whaaa...whaaahhh...whaaahh.
> 
> ...


I like when they show up at our job or the neighbors, when we're working.
They drop the gate and go to work acting like they don't even see us. 
We go out of our way to see that no brush is holding them up. 
Even though we were there first. Make eye contact and give them 
a little buddy nod, with no responce.
They think they're all that but we are damn it! :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## ropensaddle (May 2, 2009)

Raymond said:


> I like when they show up at our job or the neighbors, when we're working.
> They drop the gate and go to work acting like they don't even see us.
> We go out of our way to see that no brush is holding them up.
> Even though we were there first. Make eye contact and give them
> ...



Can you scream headddddddddddddddddddddddddddache fun to see their faces light up lol!


----------



## Raymond (May 2, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> Can you scream headddddddddddddddddddddddddddache fun to see their faces light up lol!


It can be fun doing that to the mailman (or woman) too. :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## treemandan (May 2, 2009)

Rftreeman said:


> this post made me want Cheeto's
> 
> 
> It isn't impossible to do but and be good at it and know what you're doing....I do except for when litte Timmy follows me around with his push mower, weed eater, ladder, poulan chainsaw and some yellow twine he bought at wal-mart cutting my throat......lol
> ...



Lawnsite? Talkin chit? That is a party I would like to crash. Ahh, I guess its just best to leave their khaki wearing asses alone.


----------



## tree MDS (May 2, 2009)

treemandan said:


> Lawnsite? Talkin chit? That is a party I would like to crash. Ahh, I guess its just best to leave their khaki wearing asses alone.



I should think I would be able to get banned pretty quickly, lol.


----------



## tree MDS (May 2, 2009)

*In all seriousness*

I honestly dont know if I would be able to survive if I couldn't climb. If I could it definitely wouldn't anything near full time, that's for sure.

Just the thought of all those jobs I wouldn't be able to do (or I would have to pay someone to do for me) makes me think "wow, thank lord I learned the right way".

I wonder these bucket queens feel when the potential customer walks them farther and farther into the back yard?? lol


----------



## TreEmergencyB (May 2, 2009)

lawn jockeys..... i love when they show up next door or across the street with 2 zero turn riders 2 walk behinds and 3 guys with weed eaters to do small town sized yard 40' x 80' or somthing like that 15K in mowers for a $30 yard. i wonder how they get them nice trucks?...


----------



## ddhlakebound (May 2, 2009)

treemandan said:


> And ddhalkebound? You could have summarized BUT I guess that is that.



Inconceivable!


----------



## xander9727 (May 2, 2009)

The same way we do.......buy them.

Now keeping up on the payments is tough with $30 jobs.


----------



## treemandan (May 2, 2009)

ddhlakebound said:


> Inconceivable!



You could have just said " I'm rubber, your glue, whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you".


----------



## TreEmergencyB (May 2, 2009)

xander9727 said:


> The same way we do.......buy them.
> 
> Now keeping up on the payments is tough with $30 jobs.



:agree2:


----------



## Rftreeman (May 2, 2009)

TreEmergencyB said:


> lawn jockeys..... i love when they show up next door or across the street with 2 zero turn riders 2 walk behinds and 3 guys with weed eaters to do small town sized yard 40' x 80' or somthing like that 15K in mowers for a $30 yard. i wonder how they get them nice trucks?...


they might do 50 yards a day 5 days a week, you do the math.



xander9727 said:


> The same way we do.......buy them.
> 
> Now keeping up on the payments is tough with $30 jobs.


it's volume that makes the money.



I don't understand the conflict between these two professions, they both are good money making professions and when you do them both as I do you get all the tree work fromk your lawn clustomers and get lawn work from the tree customers, now what's wrong with that.

fwiw: I started tree work 21 years ago (6 years for my self) and lawn care 3 years ago and I make just as much money cutting gras as I do with trees.


----------



## ropensaddle (May 2, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> I honestly dont know if I would be able to survive if I couldn't climb. If I could it definitely wouldn't anything near full time, that's for sure.
> 
> Just the thought of all those jobs I wouldn't be able to do (or I would have to pay someone to do for me) makes me think "wow, thank lord I learned the right way".
> 
> I wonder these bucket queens feel when the potential customer walks them farther and farther into the back yard?? lol



So mds ya calling me a queen ?


----------



## Blakesmaster (May 2, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> I wonder these bucket queens feel when the potential customer walks them farther and farther into the back yard?? lol



I don't know 'bout you mds, but I get all sorts a shivers up and down my spine the farther back into the yard we go. It may be a ##### to get the debris out but my competitors list just went from about 30 to 4.


----------



## tomtrees58 (May 2, 2009)

back yards drive nuts thank god i climb tom trees


----------



## tree md (May 2, 2009)

LOL, good 1 tomtrees!


----------



## Grais (May 2, 2009)

I do believe this will be my last visit to this site, what an embarrassing display.
Seriously, don't you all have some trees to go and climb like the heroes you all think you are ?
I cannot imagine why not !
BTW I own 3 saws, one I call 'fast as tarnations', as in,
"go and get me 'fast as tarnations' for this tree Jasper".
Its a right purdy shade of green and purple, and the others two I call 'kinda dull but still gettin 'er dun'.


----------



## tree md (May 2, 2009)

Grais said:


> I do believe this will be my last visit to this site, what an embarrassing display.
> Seriously, don't you all have some trees to go and climb like the heroes you all think you are ?
> I cannot imagine why not !
> BTW I own 3 saws, one I call 'fast as tarnations', as in,
> ...



Well with 2 whole posts I'm sure your contributions will be sorely missed...


----------



## ropensaddle (May 3, 2009)

Awwwwwwww shucks guess if I can't get in the gear is on the bucket so out the bins it comes not too often though:monkey:


----------



## tree MDS (May 3, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> So mds ya calling me a queen ?



Maybe.


----------



## ropensaddle (May 3, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> Maybe.



Ya itchin to become famous kid? lmao


----------



## tree MDS (May 3, 2009)

ropensaddle said:


> Ya itchin to become famous kid? lmao



Just feelin lucky old dog. lol


----------



## ropensaddle (May 3, 2009)

tree MDS said:


> Just feelin lucky old dog. lol



Yup thought so heard a song about that the other day the what it means to be a winner you may know the song can't remember the artist though.


----------



## Happy trees (May 3, 2009)

Well, I am in the boat that you are describing somewhat. I got laid off from the oilfield a couple of months ago. Previous to that, I worked the ground for my brother, who is somewhat, but not highly experienced in tree removals. He got into removals after running a "Lawn Jockey" service, and getting repeated requests for tree care and removals. But it turns out that he is very good at certain aspects of running a tree removal business. And it helps that he is intensely curious, and loves to know everything about trees and wood, etc. He climbs, and I throw stuff in the truck like I'm mad at it. We're the guys that these real experienced guys hate.

We work great together, and we make a little money, but I will tell you that this is a ##### of a game to get into if you are not 100% committed. For instance, my bro climbs--but not like some of these guys climb! There's some insane climbers around!

From what I have seen, if I could not climb, I would hire a climber over renting or buying a bucket truck. Climbers can do stuff that bucket trucks can't do. I would definitely invest in a chipper. We don't have one, and running out to the compost facility all the time is taking a bite out of us. 

If you try to do it all with a bucket truck, you're going to have to cherry-pick (get it?) your jobs. And when you're just starting out, it is not possible to turn away work. You need all the jobs you can get for word of mouth, and to pay for advertising, and misc expenses. 

Anyway, I made my short story too long. I think you better do a little more research before you jump into this business. Certainly, any knowledge of tree care that you have will put you ahead of some gump with none. But after working this for a month now, I'm of the mindset that you either have to be hot or cold to be in the tree business. Lukewarm, and you'll get spat out.


----------



## xander9727 (May 3, 2009)

Happy trees said:


> But after working this for a month now, I'm of the mindset that you either have to be hot or cold to be in the tree business. Lukewarm, and you'll get spat out.




It isn't a profession that you can find a lot of success in if your only part time. You will either miss out on a lot of money because you can't do certain jobs )or do them efficiently) or you will go broke trying to pay for the equipment you are only utilizing part time.

Believe me I tried part time.........let's just say I'm very full time now.


----------



## Henry111 (May 3, 2009)

ddhlakebound said:


> Sure, you can get by without a climber....It's called landscaping.



DAMN RIGHT BROTHER!!!!! LOL.


----------



## Dave's TLC (May 4, 2009)

Happy trees said:


> Well, I am in the boat that you are describing somewhat. I got laid off from the oilfield a couple of months ago. Previous to that, I worked the ground for my brother, who is somewhat, but not highly experienced in tree removals. He got into removals after running a "Lawn Jockey" service, and getting repeated requests for tree care and removals. But it turns out that he is very good at certain aspects of running a tree removal business. And it helps that he is intensely curious, and loves to know everything about trees and wood, etc. He climbs, and I throw stuff in the truck like I'm mad at it. We're the guys that these real experienced guys hate.
> 
> We work great together, and we make a little money, but I will tell you that this is a ##### of a game to get into if you are not 100% committed. For instance, my bro climbs--but not like some of these guys climb! There's some insane climbers around!
> 
> ...



I've gotta agree with you happy trees, except a bucket truck you can just fly through the jobs, I love climbing but if you wanta make money, trimming by climbing sure as hell ain't the way to go. Even my old boss would pull in one of his buckets to trim or even take downs and tops if the truck could reach it. its like mowing a half acre with a push mower and you've got five more of those lined up for the day. you can do it but for around $180 to $200 a tree if you can get 4 or 5 in a day and be worn out not wanting to do nothing tommarrow or 7 or 8 in 3/4 a day and be up at 5:00 am the next its worth the bucket. and iknow they can be expensive im looking into one now but My old boss had like a $25000 to $35000 dollar bucket truck on payments and i was there when he drove to txas from cali to pick a 45' diesal for $8000 and drove it 1800 miles back. I know these guys sound harsh, but their really helpful. and they go outta their way to make sure you do the thing they've known their whole life, safe and right. ya sometimes they forget their on arborist 101. but they helped me find the right rope and gave me alot of good advice. I havent had no tree work but I do super multi tasking like somone said ealier, mines Dave's Tree and Lawn Care / Building Maintenance. I just started out on my own 3 months ago and I've got more building maintenance then anything but its paying for my equipment slowly. lucky i've got a good missus with a damn good job to support us while I getmy business off the ground. any Its possible and on real low budget to start with. but I wouldn't start with just trees, I'd start with lawn care and landscaping at least too. and if you get a tree job if its just an easy pruniing trimming ect. do it. but if it's something difficult either find a climber or just make a good arborist associate and give it to him and he might return the favor. I'm tellin ya it possible to make alot of money but I've never worked so hard in all my life and I did helichopper logging, wood cutting business (bringing in 3 cord a day split by myself). tree hacking for a utility company, service tech for an auto dealer ship, construction, landscaping and room maintenance for best western ect,you name and have probably done it a couple years, but it's now where near as complicated as this business and painstakenling long hrs. theres ins. business licenence, commercial regestraion for vehicles and trailors, oh and advertising s**t, these search enginens and spiders suck. then finding stuff you need for jobs. man its never ending. but its worth it when things start to slow up and the fruits of your work start to pay. plus to sit back and actually look at a lawn well down, a tree you turned into a picasso or someones messed up repair work you fixed it's nice to say i did that and it looks good.stick with it and you might just find your self 3 climbers two buckets, a chipper, 10 saws, a stump grinder, doing a utility company for 10 grand a month, and running your own private show climbing your big a** up a hundred feet every day and lovin it. sorry so long, ain't posted in about a month. been to busy! I lucked into a building maintence job for 13 restaurants. but just to let every one know if you advertise through search engines and use part of your name in your link to here it pops up on the web under the first page sometimes. I hade a customer tell me he seen myweb site ad and right above it popped up a ? id submitted here on flip lines / safety lanyards. good thing it was a job for a yard and not tree work. theres always someone who does a better job and the customer is looking for that someone but cheaper. lol'. you know I never got a answer for the flip line. how do you tie the flip line with rope to where its adjustable, as I said before mine was always set up. and I've used the adj lever on rope and cable core but I was wonderining how to find the set up for the knot work on just using a rope flip line? does anyone know or have you all went Y2k over the last 10 year. LOL I'm just havin some fun no need to get butt hurt any one. serious about the knots though!


----------



## Dave's TLC (May 4, 2009)

Oh and i forgot chippers are some times over rated depending on where your at here in tennessee its a waist of money they haul limbs, trees, stumps, couches, garbage you name it, from right in front of your house for free!!!! gotta love the good ole volunteer state! but in ohio where I think the original post was from definately a chipper. they don't even hardly pemit you to burn up north, (damn yanks) just kidden i'm origanally from cali and I don't know which one is worst on laws and :censored: I'm glad I found this site, what the heck would a lawn site talk about PLANTING TULIPS? :greenchainsaw: and I do lawns, but I'm like happy trees brother I love wood! and climbing and are the best!


----------

