# Slabbing Australian hardwood



## mkwish (May 29, 2007)

Hi folks I am new to this site. Can anyone help with suggestions. I have a chain modified to the Granberg tooth pattern ( you will know how it has slicer and clearer teeth ground different shapes ). Well it certainly gives a smooth cut but the Stihl 075 (110 cc ) I drive it with loads down easily in some of our timbers. The bar is only one metre long ( 40") cutting through logs no more than 600 mm (24"). 
I have the idea that maybe I can remove some of the teeth, say leave the one slicer immediately in front of the next clearer, then remove the next clearer, leave the next slicer, leave the next, remove the next clearer, leave the next slicer, remove the next clearer, and so on for the entire length of the loop of saw chain. Would this work.


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## aggiewoodbutchr (May 29, 2007)

Howdy! Welcome to AS!

I can't directly answer your question but I have tried the granberg chain myself but wasn't all that impressed. It did cut faster initially but also dulled faster than regular ripping chains. I had the most consistently low cut times using full comp .325, .63ga ripping chain on a 44" bar/ 084.


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## mkwish (May 29, 2007)

*Milling Australian hardwood*

Thanks aggiewoodbutchr for your response.
From your experience, would you suggest skip tooth ground at zero degrees is better than standard Granberg style. Alternatively I thought I might grind a skip tooth chain to the Granberg style.
When you found the Granberg dulled quicker is that in soft or hard wood? I don't cut them but some of our hardwoods can rate at F27 hardness ( eg. a air framing nail gun has difficulty driving 3 1/2" colated nails into it), not many rate less than F17 and I cut them often.
What is your opinion of tungsten carbide tipped chain ( I would sharpen it with a diamond lapper). Seems to me if it improves performance the way it does with circular saw blades it should make quite some difference. So expensive I dont want to try without a good degree of research.


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## Outback (May 29, 2007)

I'm just getting serious with this milling caper. I'm very interested with your thoughts on the Grandberg chain, I was maybe still am going to try a homemade version.
For the best compromise between speed, finish, and longevity I am currently running 15 degree with 10 degree up. At the moment I'm milling red gum, I'm not sure of the "F" rating, but you'll be able to fill me in. Until I find gooder, I'll stick to this grind.


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## oldsaw (May 29, 2007)

It's not hard to load down a big saw milling a 24" log. You need to back off the pressure a bit to keep the chain speed up. Chain speed = cut speed. You can't really hurry milling, you are going to have an optimal speed that your set-up is going to do in a certain log with a certain chain, and that's it. Again, the key is to keep the chain spinning.

I've never tried the Granberg style chain, but instead run a 5-10 degree top plate on standard comp chain. I have a few loops of Bailey's rip chain (Woodsman Pro) that I have been very happy with. Keep it sharp, bring a couple of extra chains with you ready to go. Harder wood will require more frequent changes.

Mark


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## aggiewoodbutchr (May 29, 2007)

mkwish said:


> Thanks aggiewoodbutchr for your response.
> From your experience, would you suggest skip tooth ground at zero degrees is better than standard Granberg style. Alternatively I thought I might grind a skip tooth chain to the Granberg style.
> When you found the Granberg dulled quicker is that in soft or hard wood? I don't cut them but some of our hardwoods can rate at F27 hardness ( eg. a air framing nail gun has difficulty driving 3 1/2" colated nails into it), not many rate less than F17 and I cut them often.
> What is your opinion of tungsten carbide tipped chain ( I would sharpen it with a diamond lapper). Seems to me if it improves performance the way it does with circular saw blades it should make quite some difference. So expensive I dont want to try without a good degree of research.



I tested skip as well in the same series of tests I mentioned and found the full comp cut faster. These test were done in water oak. I don't know what the "f" number is but it's density is comparable to red gum from what I have read.

As oldsaw said, chain speed = cut speed, period. I had the best improvements in cut time when I stepped up the drive sprocket and kept the engine speed up in the cut. For example, a 3/8", .063 ga full comp ripping chain cutting 24" wide water oak ran at a rate of .90 ft/min with a 8 pin sprocket and 1.16 ft/min with a 9 pin sprocket (sharpened before both runs).





Outback said:


> I'm just getting serious with this milling caper. I'm very interested with your thoughts on the Grandberg chain, I was maybe still am going to try a homemade version.
> For the best compromise between speed, finish, and longevity I am currently running 15 degree with 10 degree up. At the moment I'm milling red gum, I'm not sure of the "F" rating, but you'll be able to fill me in. Until I find gooder, I'll stick to this grind.



I usually grind at 10 top / 10 up in green and 5 top / 10 up in very dry wood.


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## Outback (May 29, 2007)

Interesting point Aggie, I realise my 15 degrees is not the norm, and flies in the face of conventionalism, but hey, I ain't arguing with the saw.


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## mkwish (May 29, 2007)

Hi everybody,
Thanks all, for your contributions. Seems I started some trains of thought.
The information coming forth is wonderful stuff and will result in better sawing in hard woods. Perhaps it isnt so much of a problem around the world, even here, because most people would use their slabs for cabinetry or turning etc. But there is no reason it cant be used for building/fencing/chook sheds/barns etc etc.
Fascinating to hear that you have better cutting with full compliment than with skip tooth! I havn't tried skip tooth myself yet. I understood that with less teeth engaging, then each tooth would cut deeper and so not dull as quickly. Also there is more space for the long shavings from ripping to be cleared. What are your thoughts as to why full compliment does better.

Does anyone know anything at all about tungsten carbide teeth on a chainsaw? Most other saws use it! Is it a success on a chainsaw? 

I can remember some antique chain that had teeth rather like 'M' teeth cross cut saws. But havn't seen it for half a century.
Was it ever any good for ripping? Remember the old hand operated pit sawmills for ripping logs.


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## aggiewoodbutchr (May 29, 2007)

mkwish said:


> Fascinating to hear that you have better cutting with full compliment than with skip tooth! I havn't tried skip tooth myself yet. I understood that with less teeth engaging, then each tooth would cut deeper and so not dull as quickly. Also there is more space for the long shavings from ripping to be cleared. What are your thoughts as to why full compliment does better.




With cross cutting that may be somewhat true but milling through end grain produces much finer dust thus it has less tendency to clog in the kerf. Thats why I speed the chain up and use full comp to take more "bites".




mkwish said:


> Does anyone know anything at all about tungsten carbide teeth on a chainsaw? Most other saws use it! Is it a success on a chainsaw?



I meant to comment on this earlier... I have not used it myself but have spoken to a few folks that have. Their experience was carbide tipped chain cut much slower but lasted as much as 10x longer between sharpening. It's really only beneficial in very dirty or extremely hard and abrasive woods. 



mkwish said:


> I can remember some antique chain that had teeth rather like 'M' teeth cross cut saws. But havn't seen it for half a century.
> Was it ever any good for ripping? Remember the old hand operated pit sawmills for ripping logs.



Can't comment on this one...


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## BobL (May 29, 2007)

I remember back in the late 50's seeing a chain with M shaped in the bottom of my fathers CS tool box. I vaguely remember the case against them related to longevity and sharpening. If you wanted them to last for any length of time the teeth needed to be quite tall and then the cut wandered all over the place and placed a lot of strain and wear on the bar/chain groove. The standard chain is sharpened in the horizontal direction so the chain can sit much more squat on the bar. That was in the days of pretty ordinary materials, I wonder if they could be revived using better metals.


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## mkwish (Jun 9, 2007)

*Slabbing Aust. Hardwoods*

Thanks for the responses, sorry the delay but we do have to make some money working so that there is cash for the hobby.
One of the businesses I operate is a lathe machining shop. I use a lot of carbide for that. I can tell you that to do a 'plunge' cut ( cutting a slot into a piece of steel needs 'ZERO' cutting angle on the face of the tooth. Skimming the surface of a piece using the feed screws to travel along the piece requires some positive angle. (these are the usual rules but are not gospel in all situations) Generaly speeds need to be much faster, also soft materials such as plastics generally cut better with sharpened tool steel because I can polish the cutting edge and slightly increase the face angle. That probably gives a clue to why tungsten carbide doesn't cut so well on a chain. The speed should be at least three times as much as with tool steel.
Just some thoughts. Perhaps someone can add some ideas.


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## husq2100 (Jun 12, 2007)

i have never milled aussie hardwoods, but have a bit of knowledge on them. i'm a carpenter by trade.

as an example dug fir is about 480kg/m3 and the aussie hardwoods get up to 1200kg/m3
due to the poor conditions they grow in they tend to absord the soil qualities. it is not uncommon for some species to have carbon in the timber. i have cut clean posts (5"x5") from the timber suppliers, that have produced sparks from my circular saw. 

i have ripped victorian ash with my 266xp and just used a chisel chain. just let the saw cut and kept the rpm up. 

like any cutting let the tool do the work and you just may have to sharpen your chain more often

serg


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## BobL (Jun 12, 2007)

uninformed said:


> as an example dug fir is about 480kg/m3 and the aussie hardwoods get up to 1200kg/m3



See the picture for a range of Western Australian timber hardness and densities. I realize that few people outside Australia will know these timbers.
The D added to the end of the name stands for DRY while G stands for GREEN.

The Graphs shows that density and hardness are not exactly related. 









> due to the poor conditions they grow in they tend to absord the soil qualities. it is not uncommon for some species to have carbon in the timber. i have cut clean posts (5"x5") from the timber suppliers, that have produced sparks from my circular saw.



Errr . . . . all wood contains carbon - its the basis of timber fibres. Carbon also won't cause sparks, I think you mean silica? Some sparks are caused by silica grains trapped inside solid wood but most are caused by sand sticking to logs or in bark and transferred to other seemingly clean wood. Occasionally termites can bring grit into logs as well.

Cheers


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