# arborist cuts arm, bleeds to death (Van BC Nov 23 2004)



## Gord (Nov 24, 2004)

i'm sure it's pretty clear what the deceased did wrong here...no details as to how he was tied in but i would guess he only had a flipline, purely speculation. pretty sad tho, a very needless death.


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## MasterBlaster (Nov 24, 2004)

Let's be careful out there, people.


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## jimmyq (Nov 24, 2004)

yikes.


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## Treeman14 (Nov 24, 2004)

NEVER work alone. EVER.


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## MasterBlaster (Nov 24, 2004)

Meh, I wouldn't be so quick to say that...


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## alanarbor (Nov 24, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Treeman14 _
> *NEVER work alone. EVER. *




I gotta second that one. 

This work is too dangerous to do without someone there to get your back.


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## MasterBlaster (Nov 24, 2004)

I would say it depends on the job, mate.


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## sedanman (Nov 25, 2004)

I am a believer in the "never work alone" mentalitiy. I have however gone solo when no help was available. In this particular case it sounds as if a non-climbing helper would not have been much help. Run and call an ambulance and then go watch the victim bleed to death vs. call an ambulance then climb up there and apply direct pressure. I know some will say administer first aid right away but without a call for help, all the first aid in the world may not help.


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## sedanman (Nov 25, 2004)

On a few occaisions I have relied on my 15 year old nephew to be my safety man.


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## P_woozel (Nov 25, 2004)

some of my most enjoyable days climbing have been alone. High exposure? Certainly, but attention to detail is what keeps us safe.


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## Stumper (Nov 25, 2004)

Work alone if you wish to. Don't cut yourself! Don't tie yourself in in such a way that you cannot descend one-handed and injured. Sorry about this man's death but having an addition witness may have been no help.


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## P_woozel (Nov 25, 2004)

Copy that.


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## xander9727 (Nov 25, 2004)

I'd be willing to bet that this was not an experienced climber with documented training. By documented I mean 5 or more years of ojt or an acrt, arbormaster, Davey, etc. climbing school. I wear an arborwear belt (my employees are required to wear them also) because it can be used as a tourniquet in an emergency. Chances are I'd use my throw line from my dity bag with a trucker hitch. Even if you can't climb down if you tourniquet your arm you'll probably live. This is another unfortunate accident that probably could have been prevented with education and training. It's things like this that make the holidays sad for people. You know there is a thanksgiving table somewhere that is mourning the loss of this man.


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## Koa Man (Nov 25, 2004)

I have worked by myself many, many times and have always felt safe. These one man jobs are those that entailed mostly a handsaw, occaisionally my 020T. Careful attention is what is required when working alone and as was already mentioned, always be able to descent one handed.


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## Nathan Wreyford (Nov 26, 2004)

Here in Krautland, legally required to have 2 climbers trained in aerial rescue at all times.

That is fine and all, but most of the time, I find it impractical. Price wise especially. Hard to charge time for 2 climbers when one is needed and be competitive.


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## Koa Man (Nov 26, 2004)

Nathan,
Don't you love it when the government is so concerned with our safety, that to be legal, they make our overhead so high we cannot compete with the door knockers. I don't think your average home owner in Germany will know, or even care, the law requires 2 climbers on site.


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## Guy Meilleur (Nov 26, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Koa Man _
> * the government is so concerned with our safety, that to be legal, they make our overhead so high we cannot compete *


Copy that; way too much regulation. I'd love to have some regulator come by and tell me to get out of a tree until another climber came in. S/he'd better wear a hard hat.

Solo pruning is usually no problem; solo heavy work is not so smart. I've worn myself out climbing down to untie knots off pieces I'd rigged and then back up again.


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## xander9727 (Nov 26, 2004)

I train my groundies in aerial rescue. My life may depend on it. They usually don't even come close to passing the first three months. It also lets me know early if a guy has climbing potential. We do practice aerial rescue once a month. Usually takes about 90 minutes to set up, get everyone through and take down. I believe it is time well spent.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Nov 26, 2004)

If a sole proprietor then at least we can tell the G oerson where to go, that is over here.


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## Curtis James (Nov 27, 2004)

I try not to work alone but sometimes it is better for me. I don't operate a chainsaw aloft alone. Just on the smaller pruning jobs. What made him an arborist? climbing? Arborist tops alder? No topping. That was one of the first things they taught us. Climb safe.


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## xander9727 (Nov 27, 2004)

You mean if you free climb a tree with a poulan wild thang and lop off a couple branches to stubs you're not an arborist? Someone ought to tell the media!


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## Stumper (Nov 27, 2004)

Shoot! The media just learned that arborists are tree trimmers. Now you want them to use the term properly and only use it to refer to tree care professionals? Over the past 30 years they have managed to change the meaning of 'decimate'. I doubt they'll actually bother to learn to use 'arborist' properly


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## TimberMcPherson (Nov 28, 2004)

I started my company with just me, most of the time I couldnt have a safety guy. I dont think anyone should work by themselves but sometimes its just not possible to do it any other way. Obviously he paid for his mistake, but who is to know whether another workmate would have been able to save him. 
Would I work by myself, yes. Would I send anyone else to do it, No way in Heck


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## xander9727 (Nov 28, 2004)

I like you Timber.........if you can't bring a mate along make sure the homeowner checks periodically. I really don't recommend working alone. Too much can go wrong not to have backup.


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## TimberMcPherson (Nov 30, 2004)

Funnily enough (or not so funny) my climbing partner was pulling a branch free of some vine and POP! A tendon went in his hand. He is now in a cast and seeing a specialist in a week, hope he is going to be ok. They dont know whats happened.
So im solo again, at least I have no big takedowns to do aside from one which I have already organised someone to help me out on.


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## xander9727 (Nov 30, 2004)

HMMMMMM? I've never been to New Zealand.......Maybe if I get slow this winter I can come over and help.


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## Nickrosis (Nov 30, 2004)

Let me know if you go.


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## Curtis James (Nov 30, 2004)

I have a friend that went back packing there and she said it was just beautiful. I would love to go some time.


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## xander9727 (Dec 1, 2004)

Anyone else want to come along?


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## TimberMcPherson (Dec 3, 2004)

Yeah its not bad down here, summer has so far not been to bad. Youd get one heck of a pay cut working here though! But your welcome down these ways, just dont think that because its a small country you can see it in a few days, theres a fair bit to see.

It takes a bit of getting used to not having another guy helping out. Things seem to get done so slow.
Paul isnt just my climbing partner but one of my best friends, he sees a specialist on tuesday so will know what the extent of the damage is.
Hey how does it work in the states, I have to pay his first weeks wages then the govt pays him 80% of his wages and all his medical and allows me to have him back at work if there are light duties he can do. What happens when your guys get hurt?


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## xander9727 (Dec 3, 2004)

If you don't have insurance you go bankrupt and starve.


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## TimberMcPherson (Dec 6, 2004)

xander9727 said:


> If you don't have insurance you go bankrupt and starve.




Effective, crude but effective. See its a Government system to motivate you to work as safely as possible, quite the motivator aint it?


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## BewtifulTreeMan (Dec 7, 2004)

I am confident in my climbers ability to work safely, and also my ability to return him to the ground in the event of an accident but i would like to learn more about aerial rescue. are there publications on this matter?  ISA classes?


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## xander9727 (Dec 7, 2004)

ACRT teaches it as part of their training courses.


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## Elmore (Dec 7, 2004)

Bloody Mess

_Moderator note: Before someone reports this-

The image is graphic (but acceptable) and depicts various parts of a human hand before and after reconstrucion. If you are sensitive to such images, you may want to pass on it._


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## achile (Dec 11, 2004)

It sad, really sad


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## mmayo (Dec 20, 2004)

It's best not to work alone because of worst case scenario. Saying that I work alone 90 % of the time, mostly pruning. I cant wait to have enough business to hire someone full time even if it's only to make that phone call. Knock on wood no serious injuries after seven years. Be safe out there!


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## Gord (Jan 10, 2005)

update to this incident that i thought was worthy of note...maybe a little apocryphal and unsubstantiated...but apparently the injured climber was HIV positive. IMO the only thing that could have helped him was to be tied in with a proper climbing line/split tail setup, ready to rappel out with one hand. and maybe a tourniquet. but i for one would not have climbed up to rescue him.


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## jimmyq (Jan 11, 2005)

I was talking to someone local and heard the same thing Gord. Apparently the folks that removed him from the situation were unaware and may not have been sufficiently protected against fluid transfer.


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## OutOnaLimb (Jan 11, 2005)

This is the reason I keep a quick clot pouch and a pressure dressing in the ammo pouch I keep attached to my saddle.

Kenn.


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## jimmyq (Jan 11, 2005)

when I first read this thread I went out and got me a little personal first aid kit, fits on the belt loop, couple band aids, sterile wipes, one compression badange with wrap and I added a pair of latex mitts and a wee Purell sanitizer. Cost me all of $4.50. The big kit is in the truck.


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## TimberMcPherson (Jan 11, 2005)

I keep a combat bandage on my helmet, yet to have to use it but its always handy.

Aids is a biggie, I dont know if I would want to risk contracting it saving someone who is infected.


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## MasterBlaster (Jan 11, 2005)

That's pretty nifty, Paul.


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## jimmyq (Jan 11, 2005)

I'm a klutz MB, its a must have for me, I just said its for work so I wouldnt get razzed.


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