# Need More Productivity from lead man.



## ccrider2240 (Jan 3, 2008)

I was wondering your thoughts on getting more out of a 30yr old man that has been with me since 2000, We are a small 4 man crew. Foreman/Climber(Not Certified, I taught him just about everything, a few ArborMaster trainings here and there) 19 bucks/hr, Head Climber 16bucks/hr., Groundie 9 bucks/hr. 
Oh Yeah, my Foreman he is on salary, i split half his medical, he takes just about any day off he needs,but such a pain in the **s come around 5:00 he is ready to go to the house, and like prying teeth to get him to put in a day on Saturday. Also last year he broke at least a dozen things on the job site, took out the back window of my bucket truck, and backed the chipper into my brand new 07 Tundra, after the first 6 weeks of owning it. We tried the percentage of the jobs he bid and did on his own with the crew, but he said 10% on top of his reg pay was not worth it. Help I'm at my wits end.


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## Mitchell (Jan 4, 2008)

*for my 2 cents*

ccrider, sounds like you want to keep working with him. I would head out to the pub [with just him] and lay out your position. Let him say his piece [and be prepared to hear something that might piss you off]. No doubt he knows what he wants from you and you obviously know what you need from him. 

I'm no councilor by any means and I give advice better then I take it, however in my experience that strategy has always been positive even if we agree to disagree. The unspoken bad air floating around brings everyone down. 
You might part ways but at least you can part friends. Down the road you might appreciate being able to get him back for a job here and there.

Another thought for you; I read an article some where recently that most people site not money, but poor relationship with their boos as the number one reason they leave.


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## urbanlt (Jan 4, 2008)

If you don’t think you can find someone better you have to learn to live with it. 

I had one guy I fired for having a crazy life style (drinking all night and cheating on his wife) but I never I had a crew that got as much work done as his did. Sometimes I think I should have just lived with it. 

But I have also learned that sometimes the most skilled climbers can not run a profitable crew because of all the bull they pull. If this is the case it is not worth it. 

I had your same problem with a long-term employee. In fact I just got a $2K bill from the power company in the mail today for a transformer he damaged while I was on vacation (surprise). He just quit caring I think. I tried some bonuses but they only worked temporarily. He recently went to work for the city which was for the best I thought. One thing that did not work for my guy but might work for yours is: My bonus were team based meaning the whole crew got it for doing good or they didn’t. This puts pressure from the rest of the crew on their foreman to perform. I think the pressure from the ground people is what made my guy decide to move on.


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## tanker (Jan 4, 2008)

Mitchell said:


> ccrider, sounds like you want to keep working with him. I would head out to the pub [with just him] and lay out your position. Let him say his piece [and be prepared to hear something that might piss you off]. No doubt he knows what he wants from you and you obviously know what you need from him.
> 
> I'm no councilor by any means and I give advice better then I take it, however in my experience that strategy has always been positive even if we agree to disagree. The unspoken bad air floating around brings everyone down.
> You might part ways but at least you can part friends. Down the road you might appreciate being able to get him back for a job here and there.
> ...


I agree,maybe its not just him,could it be that you like to run your operation with a little bit of an iron hand?I worked 10 years for a person that was a good friend of mine, we did excavating work and he would send me and the other guy out to do a job that he had set up,not telling us anything about it other than here it is,get it done.We would bust a$$ have it done or almost then he would show up and get mad because we could'nt read his mind and do it his way.Job was done,customer was impressed that we did good work without screwing around and then boss shows up and makes us redo the job his way.If you have this person in charge or in a position of authority,try letting them do their job.Sometimes it is'nt all about money,but job satisfaction.If you take the quoted advice and talk to this person 1 on 1,be enough of a good boss to maybe learn that you have some things to change too.Not trying to bash you or beat you up,just playing devils advocate because I've been on both sides of the fence,worker and boss


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## ccrider2240 (Jan 6, 2008)

*Thanks for the help*

I think I will take all that advice. Getting some other perspectives is defiantly helpful. Heck talking to my buddies and wife about the situation is tough enough for them to understand. Nice having some fellow tree heads to talk business with.


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## Mitchell (Jan 6, 2008)

*no prob*



ccrider2240 said:


> I think I will take all that advice. Getting some other perspectives is defiantly helpful. Heck talking to my buddies and wife about the situation is tough enough for them to understand. Nice having some fellow tree heads to talk business with.



let us know how it turns out.


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## mastermind24 (Jan 13, 2008)

ill run your business and make my more $ and i have my own equipment, i just want to work for cashhhh. problem solved


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## ccrider2240 (Jan 14, 2008)

mastermind24 said:


> ill run your business and make my more $ and i have my own equipment, i just want to work for cashhhh. problem solved



Yeah thats what i need to do........:monkey:


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## Mitchell (Jan 14, 2008)

did you chat with your man


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## mastermind24 (Jan 15, 2008)

ccrider2240 said:


> Yeah thats what i need to do........:monkey:



i dont quite understand your statement...

but whenever im on a job productivity isnt a problem, and having better equipment than you, i think you really might make more money.

realistically if the guy is breaking stuff when your away, and doesnt want to put in extra hours, he isnt there for the business, just for himself. my crew and i stay till the job is done, they understand if we have to do a 10 or 12 hour day thats how it is cause being in and out in a day versus another half day to travel there again and finish up is the difference between profit or not sometimes.


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## Mitchell (Jan 15, 2008)

*mastermind*

why not set yourself up in a new city?


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## ccrider2240 (Jan 15, 2008)

ccrider2240 said:


> Yeah thats what i need to do........:monkey:


you and your crew work for me, I bill the customer and pay you cash, i guess i now ask, Well, how much "cash" do you and your crew work for in a day? Me, Making more money isnt really the issue here,( im perfectly fine with my living a business enviroment) Hell I would love for him to maybe earn a raise than me give him a raise. Hell the kid is great really. 8 years Steady Freddy. Not bad, Ill live with the highs and the lows, And theres is alot more highs than lows.... Half the time I do run my buisness with an iron hand.... Sometimes its obvious i just need to leave, the jobsite, cause theyve got there own little routine,, NOt MINE mind you but they can run a ship no question.


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## mastermind24 (Jan 15, 2008)

actually im looking to leave my crew to run the business on their own, and i want to go somewhere and work for cash to help us get ahead, i figure with the bobcat package that cost me a hundred thousand im worth 400-600 a day? maybe add the 18" chipper and leave the guys with our 12" and im worth 500-700?

well im worth a lot more but the american ecomomy is hurting, we bill out 1600-2000 for the crew daily, and just the skid steer and a man is 1000 with a bucket, 1300 with the stump ginnder

what would you think is fair?

i also pull work everywhere i go, and am great with customers


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## mastermind24 (Jan 15, 2008)

Mitchell said:


> why not set yourself up in a new city?



i dont want to deal with anymore paperwork. i would like to use my equipment to set someone else up in a city thats far away and leave once they can function on their own. 

i was thinking lately that i could find a landscaper, teach them about treework and hire a climber for them, teach them how to get the work and how to talk to the customers, use my stuff until they can buy their own, write a contract that i get X$$$ a year for a few years after i leave jsut so i get something outa the deal, and do that a few times for the next few years. i already got my business going and i want to leave it for my foreman to run, i like to help people, and i know how to make money.


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## Mitchell (Jan 15, 2008)

*upfront*



mastermind24 said:


> i dont want to deal with anymore paperwork. i would like to use my equipment to set someone else up in a city thats far away and leave once they can function on their own.
> 
> i was thinking lately that i could find a landscaper, teach them about treework and hire a climber for them, teach them how to get the work and how to talk to the customers, use my stuff until they can buy their own, write a contract that i get X$$$ a year for a few years after i leave jsut so i get something outa the deal, and do that a few times for the next few years. i already got my business going and i want to leave it for my foreman to run, i like to help people, and i know how to make money.



Could be interesting to travel around, teach folks and see the world. What do you want upfront.


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## mastermind24 (Jan 15, 2008)

i wouldnt really need much upfront, maybe a weeks pay? its more about a commitment for at least a few months steady work wherever i go. its the equipment that really holds the value so if i find soeone that needs that and already has jobs lined up everything would work.


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## extremewoodwork (Jan 31, 2008)

Hey I have great equipment too. If I come to your neighborhood will you give me a ton of work to do? Oh yeah sure when work dies down or gets slow i will leave town and you can owe me a paycheck also.


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## ccrider2240 (Jan 31, 2008)

LOL yeah that guys a real case


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## ronnyb (Feb 17, 2008)

The best boss I had would do one simple thing. At the end of the day he would thank us for working. He didn't have to, and it made you feel like he truly appreciated your effort. He also wasn't a micromanager, most of the time he never showed up on the jobsite. Is your employee married? Sounds like me when I was going through my divorce. Somedays I would have so much on my mind that I shouldn't have been at work.


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## ccrider2240 (Feb 20, 2008)

everyday...... Always telling the guys thanks for the hard work. Hell most of the time its over some cold suds at the end of the day yes he is married,and 2 children. Now it seems he is going to try to get on with the fire department.... Really im relieved, im ready for a change so is the rest of the crew, plus my head climber is way worth the advancement. Is amazing really,,, how could this be.. I can go out with the same crew( have a great time with the guys ) he is with and and honestly make twice the money and be fishing by 5:45. He on the other hand an 8 year timid greenhorn (sorry im getting pissed) takes twice as long has to make sure he gets his lunch hour in and demands to be at the shop no later than 5;30.... Really we have had our divorce before and another one is about to happen, in the mean time my wife gave me a book to read "E Myth" ever heard of it,,,, its about why so many small buisnesses fail. lol signed 12 year Vet that keeps going back to a small crew cause he thinks thats the best way, you know i kinda like it that way...


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