# What is a good .223 for under 700$



## pinemartin (Dec 14, 2010)

I have been a good boy this year and have decided to purchase a new rifle in .223 cal. I am very interested in the mini 14 but accuracy is a concern. I will need a gun that can hold at least a 6" group out to 300 yards for various "game". If the newer mini 14's will pull this off than great I have found the rifle for me if not the search continues. Also a auto is not the only choice I will also consider a good multi round bolt action. thanks


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## adam32 (Dec 14, 2010)

A mini out to 300yrds is kinda a crapshoot! It may or may not! If you want an auto, look into an AR...


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## newmexico (Dec 14, 2010)

*true*



adam32 said:


> A mini out to 300yrds is kinda a crapshoot! It may or may not! If you want an auto, look into an AR...



the mini's shoot through dirt, dust, mud, and abuse pretty well but they just don't group..(something about being a little loose).. I put a little scope on mine and it just wasn't worth it, made me feel like a real bad shot.. 

I'm kinda thinking of one of these, though not sub 700 dollar a little less expensive than some other AR platforms and it's American made...

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/53496

I've heard, can't verify though, that the stainless steel Mini-14's are a little more accurate.


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## Hunt'n'photos (Dec 14, 2010)

I would steer clear of an auto. To find one that is accurate out to even 200 yards for under $700 would be impossible. My pet rig is a CZ 550 Varminter in .22-250 for fox, coyotes and wolves.







Its extremely accurate out to over 400 yards. Also comes from the factory with a set trigger. If you look around you can pick one up for right around $700. If your stuck on the .223 the CZ 527 would be what you want and its a little cheaper but just as accurate!


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## wigglesworth (Dec 14, 2010)

Savage 12FV. Factory bull barrel, pillar bedded, accutrigger....etc, etc. MSRP of $698


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## pinemartin (Dec 14, 2010)

thanks for the replies I will check on all these leads tomorrow..


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## newmexico (Dec 14, 2010)

*and if you're not stuck on a .223*

as hunt'n'photos suggests... the 22-250--


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## deeker (Dec 14, 2010)

Shooting a Savage is like kissing ones own sister...yuck.

However, Savage is sadly beating Remington in the accuracy game right now.


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## dingeryote (Dec 14, 2010)

700 bucks?

I reckon a good AR can be twisted up for about that if you shop smart for components.

Drop me a PM if ya figure to go that route, as I might be able to help ya.

In bolt rifles, it's nothin' but Savage anymore, as they are the last to give a damn about thier barrels and leep any amount of pride in what they sell.

Wiggle a little more and the Tikka line up is darn tasty.
Finns make rifles like the swiss make Chocolates.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## wigglesworth (Dec 15, 2010)

deeker said:


> Shooting a Savage is like kissing ones own sister...yuck.
> 
> However, Savage is sadly beating Remington in the accuracy game right now.



ROFL...they definetly aint the best lookin ones out there, but they are the most accurate rifle you can buy for the money, hands down. The Accutrigger is one of the best out of the box triggers out there, and with a bit of work can be made even better. I've had no trouble getting safe, reliable sub #1 triggers out of them, with no creep or overtravel.


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## Swamp Yankee (Dec 15, 2010)

Used

I'd start looking for a used AR or older Remington 700. Money saved over new will go towards some decent optics. 

Prices vary by area, but I've seen some beautiful used 700 VS in .223 for $400 with a cheap scope. Take the leftover and upgrade to a decent scope. Only issue is the VS has a 1 in 12 twist, so bullet weights should be kept to 55 grains and less. A clean used 700 LTR or PSS in .223 without optics will run in the $650 to $700 range around here. They are 1 in 9 twist and very good shooters.

ARs can be found in that price range as long as you're not into "Tacticool". Look on CDNN's website. They always have ARs at attractive pricing. You may be able to get a really good deal and have it shipped to a local dealer.

Take Care


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## sbhooper (Dec 15, 2010)

It always amazes me how many people whine about the looks of a Savage rifle. Good grief! It's a tool for crying out loud! You aren't taking it to the prom. I have never heard anyone discuss how hammers or screwdrivers look. Glock always has the same problem. Worry about terminal issues-not how "pretty" it is. Besides that, I don't see what is so ugly about a Savage anyway. Look at the new classic series. That is as fine of a rifle as exists, but sadly, has a wood stock. 

All of the countless deer and elk that I have killed with my Savage never knew that I had a homely rifle. At least Savage is not getting sued for a faulty trigger system like Remington is. 

I'll take a Savage any day. It is the best bang for the buck in the gun world and I have yet to see one that would not shoot.


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## derwoodii (Dec 16, 2010)

http://www.remington.com/products/archived/centerfire/pump-action/model-7615.aspx

As I just got one and ain't put more than 5 shots though yet I can not say for sure but I reckon this may suit your needs. 

And close to your price range, gee your US guns are cheap here $1600+. 

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/42051

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/41877


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## ZeroJunk (Dec 16, 2010)

deeker said:


> Shooting a Savage is like kissing ones own sister...yuck.
> 
> However, Savage is sadly beating Remington in the accuracy game right now.



I feel the same way. Just can't make myself buy one.


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## Hunt'n'photos (Dec 16, 2010)

zerojunk said:


> i feel the same way. Just can't make myself buy one.



+1


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## mdavlee (Dec 16, 2010)

I've had several savages in the past few years and they're aren't the prettiest guns but they all shot extremely well even with cheap scopes on them. I had not trouble off sandbags of less than 1" groups at 150 yards with any of them in 270, 7mm, 30.06, and 243.

I've got a weatherby vanguard 22-250 right now that shoots real good and I got it used for $400 with a scope. I've wanted to build an ar exactly how I wanted it but it gets close to $1k when I get the barrel and everything so I've held off with this 22-250 doing so good.


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## wigglesworth (Dec 16, 2010)

ZeroJunk said:


> I feel the same way. Just can't make myself buy one.



Ur missing out. The new "Classic" series sure looks pretty to me.


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## homelitejim (Dec 16, 2010)

Build your AR, get your upper at RGUNS.net and go to local gun shop and have them order your lower. Upper should run around $450 complete and you can get a complete lower around $230 or put your lower together yourself for under $200. Then save up $1200 and buy a good scope. My 16" m4 flattens coyotes out to 400 yards of course I hand load and use bullets designed for that.






I put this gun together for under $700 with everything but the scope. The ACOG ran about $1150 after tax.


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## stihl sawing (Dec 16, 2010)

Hope you guys can really help him out, All my stuff is old and you guys are up do date on all the new stuff. Pinemartin is a super nice guy, Hope he gets a good deal on a 223.


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## atvguns (Dec 16, 2010)

I really like my savage model 12 4x4 has 20" barrel slides in and out of the truck window real nice 1/2 inch groups all day long here is a link to one on gunbroker

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=206570607


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## homelitejim (Dec 16, 2010)

The Ruger Mini 14 barrel is very thin, the gun is accurate until you heat up the barrel this is when accuracy suffers. Most AR's have thick barrels and dissipate heat quickly the entire platform is inherently accurate. Most sniper rifles in the military now use the AR platform weather in 223 or 308.


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## ShoerFast (Dec 16, 2010)

wigglesworth said:


> Savage 12FV. Factory bull barrel, pillar bedded, accutrigger....etc, etc. MSRP of $698




The list of rifles that can beat Savage , for the money, is very short!

Considering one well placed shot is worth far more then a clip full* 'at something' is priceless. 



deeker said:


> Shooting a Savage is like kissing ones own sister...yuck.
> 
> However, Savage is sadly beating Remington in the accuracy game right now.



Not what I heard, your sister can kiss! JustKidding  

My $0.02 cents, I am not better then most rifles ability in most hunting situations, but my ability does get better with better optics. 

I would take the savings of a Savage (over say a Remington, Browning, Winny,,,,) and tack it on to the scope. 

Nothing beats a fine piece of glass! 


*Counting on a kill, I would put the tightest auto-cycles behind the loosest bolts


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## Taxmantoo (Dec 16, 2010)

Lots of AR kits on the Hot Deals forum at fatwallet. 

http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/hot-deals/1055317/

http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/hot-deals/1038907/

Or you could get a $400 scope and a H&R Ultra Varmint.
On a good day I can shoot 1" at 200 yards with a 24" Ultra barrel on my NEF Handi-Rifle. 
http://hr1871.com/Firearms/Rifles/hunter.asp


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## stihl sawing (Dec 16, 2010)

homelitejim said:


> The Ruger Mini 14 barrel is very thin, the gun is accurate until you heat up the barrel this is when accuracy suffers. Most AR's have thick barrels and dissipate heat quickly the entire platform is inherently accurate. Most sniper rifles in the military now use the AR platform weather in 223 or 308.


I have three of em and they aren't accurate on the first shot or the 100th shot. One of them is a AC-5.56 and it will shoot 100 rounds pretty fast. one is a mini-14 GB. One is a 7.63x39 and it's worse than the 223's. The two 223's are older guns.


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## sbhooper (Dec 16, 2010)

The HR is a good, well-built gun IF you get one that shoots good. I had a .223 that I put hundreds of rounds through and could not figure it out. One day it shot one-hole groups and then it would move them around. I finally got tired of spending time and money testing loads for it and sold it.


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## homelitejim (Dec 16, 2010)

I would go with a AR because customizing it is endless if you get tired of how it looks you can change it, if you want more punch you can get a 6.8 spc upper, if you want even more punch you can get a 450 bushmaster upper, if you want more punch they make a 50 bmg bolt action upper, but same lower. Then there are aftermarket grips, trigger guards, butt stocks, triggers, charging handles flash hiders...............endless! Did I mention you can turn it into a piston gun like an AK but with AR accuracy. I think you get my point.


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## homelitejim (Dec 16, 2010)




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## wigglesworth (Dec 16, 2010)

Stephen C. said:


> A friend of mine can put 3 out of those 5 shots through the same hole using my gun and factory ammo.....




Yep....Factory ammo. Mine will shoot the cheap stuff better than most high-end rifles will shoot handloads. Wally world 180gr Remington 30.06's will shoot under 1/2" at 100 yards. Hornaday SST's in 180gr will better than that. 

Did I mention that this rifle came from K-mart in the early 90's.


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## biggenius29 (Dec 16, 2010)

dingeryote said:


> 700 bucks?
> 
> I reckon a good AR can be twisted up for about that if you shop smart for components.
> 
> ...



Dinger built my AR and did a awsome job at it, if you need one put togeather he is the man.

And 6" groups at 300 should be easy, unless you are using Irons and no optics.

Also I have seen used AR's in a few shops around here starting at $500.


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## Hunt'n'photos (Dec 16, 2010)

After being in the military and shooting them for the past 22 years I never have understood the assault rifle craze. There is no way you can get any semi auto assault weapon to shoot long range without spending a ton of money compared to any bolt action rifle. The military designed and adopted the M-16/AR-15 platform for its field strippable quality and parts interchangeability in the field along with its close range handling, definitely not for its long range accuracy. I know there are versions out there that can shoot long range, but not for anywhere close to $700. In fact thats about 1/4 of what you could expect to pay for a long range black rifle. I dont claim to be the authority, however I hold military marksmanship medals in both the M-9 and M-16 and have earned the multi-service Distinguished Rifleman badge competing against the top 5% of all services so I know a little bit about the M-16 platform. I have also compete in silhouette and benchrest pistol and rifle competitions in the past. You can do what you wish, but there is no way I would go for any semi auto for long range varminting. 

Although by reading the posts in this thread I am sure there is going to lots of opposition to that since that is what the internet and most forums has evolved into and I will just sit back smiling about our freedom of speech that I have served 22 so far years to protect. Meanwhile I think I'll plan another coyote or wolf hunt on the north slope with my bolt action!:hmm3grin2orange:


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## mdavlee (Dec 17, 2010)

I've had 2 ARs myself and a couple friends have them and they shoot alright, but not as good as the bolt actions. They are accurate enough to take crows out at 300 yds with me shooting so that's good enough for me. On coyotes or groundhogs you've got a little bigger window and the semi automatic is good if you miss on the first shot.

I'm thinking of a 6.8 AR for my next gun. It is plenty big enough for deer and should be deadly on all varmints.


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## ShoerFast (Dec 17, 2010)

Hunt'n'photos said:


> After being in the military and shooting them for the past 22 years I never have understood the assault rifle craze. There is no way you can get any semi auto assault weapon to shoot long range without spending a ton of money compared to any bolt action rifle. The military designed and adopted the M-16/AR-15 platform for its field strippable quality and parts interchangeability in the field along with its close range handling, definitely not for its long range accuracy. I know there are versions out there that can shoot long range, but not for anywhere close to $700. In fact thats about 1/4 of what you could expect to pay for a long range black rifle. I dont claim to be the authority, however I hold military marksmanship medals in both the M-9 and M-16 and have earned the multi-service Distinguished Rifleman badge competing against the top 5% of all services so I know a little bit about the M-16 platform. I have also compete in silhouette and benchrest pistol and rifle competitions in the past. You can do what you wish, but there is no way I would go for any semi auto for long range varminting.
> 
> Although by reading the posts in this thread I am sure there is going to lots of opposition to that since that is what the internet and most forums has evolved into and I will just sit back smiling about our freedom of speech that I have served 22 so far years to protect. Meanwhile I think I'll plan another coyote or wolf hunt on the north slope with my bolt action!:hmm3grin2orange:



Good post!

Thank You for your service! 

Good luck wolf hunting, that is something on my list.


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## biggenius29 (Dec 17, 2010)

Hunt'n'photos said:


> I know there are versions out there that can shoot long range, but not for anywhere close to $700. In fact thats about 1/4 of what you could expect to pay for a long range black rifle.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





I do agree with you, my stock Bushmaster is not all that accurate. But alot of that is do to a barrel that is probably shot. 

But, my AR now is extreamly accurate. I am shooting dime size groups with Black Hills 55gr. I just picked up a box of 75's so hopefully I can tighten it up even more. But like you said, I have alot more into this one.


I disagree with you, a Semi Auto is alot of fun for varminting.

But, all that being said, my next rifle will be a bolt chambered in a .308. I just looked at a awsome custom Remmie 700 tonight at the gun shop. All custom built from the ground up. Looked pretty nice, but I need to save my sheckless


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## Nitroman (Dec 17, 2010)

Hunt'n'photos said:


> semi auto assault weapon



I can't believe I saw this and you state you were in the military.


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## joesawer (Dec 17, 2010)

Hunt'n'photos said:


> After being in the military and shooting them for the past 22 years I never have understood the assault rifle craze. There is no way you can get any semi auto assault weapon to shoot long range without spending a ton of money compared to any bolt action rifle. The military designed and adopted the M-16/AR-15 platform for its field strippable quality and parts interchangeability in the field along with its close range handling, definitely not for its long range accuracy. I know there are versions out there that can shoot long range, but not for anywhere close to $700. In fact thats about 1/4 of what you could expect to pay for a long range black rifle. I dont claim to be the authority, however I hold military marksmanship medals in both the M-9 and M-16 and have earned the multi-service Distinguished Rifleman badge competing against the top 5% of all services so I know a little bit about the M-16 platform. I have also compete in silhouette and benchrest pistol and rifle competitions in the past. You can do what you wish, but there is no way I would go for any semi auto for long range varminting.
> 
> Although by reading the posts in this thread I am sure there is going to lots of opposition to that since that is what the internet and most forums has evolved into and I will just sit back smiling about our freedom of speech that I have served 22 so far years to protect. Meanwhile I think I'll plan another coyote or wolf hunt on the north slope with my bolt action!:hmm3grin2orange:





Lol! I pretty much despise the M-16 and all its variations. 
Why would you wanna just keep trying to fix a piece of crap?
The military adopted it because it is cheap to manufacture.


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## atvguns (Dec 17, 2010)

Nitroman said:


> I can't believe I saw this and you state you were in the military.


 what


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## biggenius29 (Dec 18, 2010)

They actually shoot in the airforce


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## Hunt'n'photos (Dec 18, 2010)

And pull convoy duty, and just about everything else all the other services do. Pretty soon we are going to be back to one big military service with lots of specialties. They have just finished combining Elmendorf AFB and Ft Richardson into one joint base. I will be retired before too many more changes though!


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## homelitejim (Dec 19, 2010)

The 223 is not a long range round, I have taken coyotes out to 400 yards with a 16 in m4 and extensively tested hand loaded ammunition. If I need to shoot out past 400 yards (which I never do because I call dogs in to me) I would buy a 22-250 or a 220 swift. The AR platform has been proven to be as accurate as any bolt action gun, all new sniper platform guns other than the Barrett semi auto 50 are based on the AR. I am also a military vet so this qualify s me as an expert on the M16, which as all us vets know are built to looser standards to allow operation in less than ideal conditions ie dust and dirt and in turn are not as accurate. I just built a 20 in AR 15 for a friend for under $700 mind you this is not including scope and I expect this rifle to shoot 1 hole groups at 100 yards with a $300 leopould mark ar 3x9 scope. Of course I also match bullets to rate of twist.


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## pinemartin (Dec 30, 2010)

Well, thanks for all the suggestion everyone. I finally made up my mind on a rifle and made the purchase. What I ended up with is a brand new bolt action Tikka T3 lite in .223 cal, this thing is awsome and it is guaranteed to have a 1 inch or less group at 100 yards rite out of the box with ANY factory ammo. I put a 4-12x50 bushnell mill dot scope on it with a built in range finder for those "iffy'' shots, along with Leopold rings and bases all for $687.94 out the door. Will post up pictures later, I want to shoot it first (working dark to dark sucks) I'll let everybody know how it goes later...


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## dingeryote (Dec 30, 2010)

I have only seen one Tikka NOT shoot MOA, and that one had a ding in the crown that wasn't there when I handed the guy the receipt as he left the shop.
My own and several of the old 595's we sold shot well under MOA with factory ammo and with good handloads, a bug hole now and then isn't uncommon.

Ya did good!!!!

Stay safe!
Dingeryote


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## wigglesworth (Dec 31, 2010)

Ive never heard any bad things about Tikka. Sounds like you made a good choice. They are VERY uncommon around here for some reason though... 

What model scope did you buy? I know busnell, but which series. Elite? Trophy? Banner?


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