# How do you sharpen your ripping chain?



## duffontap

Ok, when I first got interested in chainsaw milling, I thought, 'I'll get 5 loops of chain and a $150 grinder and I'll never need to drop my chains off at the saw shop again.' Well, I realized after a couple weeks of thinking that waiting for the money to buy a powered bench-mounted grinder and 5 loops of chain ($100) would mean never being able to afford to start.  So, I went the opposite direction and bought 1 loop of chain telling myself to 'suck it up and hand file it.'

I'm careful with what I cut so I'm not rocking my chain or milling through nails and chipping up the teeth. The first 4-5 times my chain started acting dull, I carefully made about 3-5 passes with a file on each tooth and it would cut like butter again. I would say, 'why would anyone bother to buy an expensive grinder?' Well, the last two mornings I milled, I was milling some pretty dirty logs and even though my teeth still looked undamaged, I wasn't getting very good results by filing the chain. 

After 8 hand-sharpenings, I took the chain to the saw shop for a professional grind. They did not inspire any of my confidence when the guy at the counter said, 'hey Bubba, can we sharpen ripping chain?' Bubba further destroyed my faith in them by looking at the chain and saying, 'looks like a normal grind to me.' I explained to him 5 times in a row with increasing simplicity and conviction that IT WAS different and I wouldn't be pleased if he put anything other than the factory grind on it. He explained to me 6 times that he couldn't see the difference between my chain and a normal cross-cut chain. I'm paying them $8 to do what they don't know how to do. 

All that said, I need a home sharpening system that can bring my chains back to perfect--perfect--after a few touch-up filings on the job. I don't have a huge budget here so I was thinking about the powered version of the Granberg file-n-joint or the cheapest bench-mounted grinder I can get from Bailey's ($99).

I would be very interested in any advice you guys have to offer. What works?

J. D.


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## Nikko

I've just bought the grinder from Northern tool (same one Bailey's has but it's purple) and have spent a little time with it. But my experiments are FAR from done. 

However - I've been sharpening my milling chain with the tilt set to 60°, the vise rotated to 15° and tilted to 10°. I ran about 45 lineal feet of cut in a walnut that averaged 16" in diameter and I never had to alter my feed rate, which tells me the chain performed consistently. That, coupled with the fact that I was pleased with the feed rate (about an inch and half per second) and with the quality of the cut, tells me the grind was good. so I'll try the same one again next time.

Nikko


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## duffontap

Nikko said:


> I've just bought the grinder from Northern tool (same one Bailey's has but it's purple) and have spent a little time with it. But my experiments are FAR from done.
> 
> However - I've been sharpening my milling chain with the tilt set to 60°, the vise rotated to 15° and tilted to 10°. I ran about 45 lineal feet of cut in a walnut that averaged 16" in diameter and I never had to alter my feed rate, which tells me the chain performed consistently. That, coupled with the fact that I was pleased with the feed rate (about an inch and half per second) and with the quality of the cut, tells me the grind was good. so I'll try the same one again next time.
> 
> Nikko



Sounds pretty good to me. Did you get this one:


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## MotorSeven

I use a jig & file by hand. I bought a HF grinder over a year ago in case i hit metal & really screw a chain up, but i haven't even taken it out of the box. 
RD


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## wdchuck

I file by hand, with a basic plate guide, and that seems to do just fine for me, however, I have nothing better to compare it to, nor anyone to tell me if I'm doing well or poorly, on the ripping chain. I use the same basic method regardless of the type of chain, just seems to be different angles for different applications.


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## shokidq

never used ripping chain but i always find when a chain isn't cutting an the teeth look fine take down the rakers


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## Nikko

duffontap said:


> Sounds pretty good to me. Did you get this one:



yup, that's the one. I can hand file, but I'm finding my chains actually get sharpened now


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## duffontap

shokidq said:


> never used ripping chain but i always find when a chain isn't cutting an the teeth look fine take down the rakers



I never touched the rakers. I have a feeling you're comment is right on regarding my diminishing returns with hand-filing. Do you use a gauge or just file 'x' number of passes on each raker? 

J. D.


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## shokidq

duffontap said:


> I never touched the rakers. I have a feeling you're comment is right on regarding my diminishing returns with hand-filing. Do you use a gauge or just file 'x' number of passes on each raker?
> 
> J. D.



I go 1 or 2 light strokes 3 is usually too much the guage stays in the bag.


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## glennschumann

*How I sharpen with a file*

Hi Duff,
I too wondered about the reality of having a dealer sharpen my chains all the time, but I'd never sharpened one, and when I started, all the angles, pitches and gauges of chain made as much sense to me as the proverbial "feminine logic". Just proverbially... most women are smarter (and stronger) than me. 
After I had my own dealer's "Bubba" do a number on my ripping chain (the right and left cutters came back as noticably different lengths, different angles, and MUCH shorter than when I took it in), I decided to try my hand at sharpening. (See the photo)
All I figured I needed was more tools.
Well, the really nice jigs seemed to be pretty pricey, so thinking with masculine logic I said "I can build one". This time, it actually worked pretty well.
I did get the file holder from the dealer, but the rest was my own creation. It is just a block of wood mimicing a saw's bar, with angle guides on it and a slot is deep enough, that clamped in a vice, it holds the chain securely. One could make it out of a couple pieces of wood with a spacer, (the slot is almost as deep as the wood block - about 1/2" of wood is left) but the key is to have the top level, and the right gap so the chain slides easily when the vice is loosened, but holds the chain tightly when it it clamped. I drew angles across the top at 35, 30, 25, 20, 15, and 10 degrees. This allows me to sharpen cross cut or ripping chain, and I've got a few cross cut chains that I'm bringing back to 10 degrees 5 degrees at a time. 

Place the guide in a bench vise, and leave the vise loose enough to let the chain slide through the slot. Mark a cutter as the first cutter with a marker, and position the cutter to be sharpened in a location so that when you put the file guide on it, you can see the correct angle marking just to the side of it. (See photo) This then guides your stroke, and it is quite easy to keep a consistent angle. Once you get a few cutters done, and you feel comfortable, keep your feet in the same position on the floor, and it all falls into place naturally. You will have to flip the chain around to sharpen the other side, but no big deal. I've had good luck with this set up. Just remember to file your rakers as needed. My jig is about a foot long, and the bottom corners are rounded so the chain slides in easily.
I take 5 to 14 strokes depending on how bad the chain is (I've sharpened friends chains... that is where I get the 14). The last stroke or two, I use just a little pressure to give a smoother surface, and maybe it also breaks the burr off the edge. (Search other posts for arguments about that).
At this point, I've been sharpening with the file level with the floor, not at 10 degrees as suggested by some chain mfrs. I also am going to make a larger handle for the file, and some sort of place for my thumb on the other end... that little knob is pretty hard on my soft fingers (I work in an office all day).
I find it helps if you have a bright light near by so that you can see the edge of the cutter to see if it is truly sharp, or if the cutting edge is still rounded over.
Hope that helps at least a little... Ive gathered lots of helpful information here, and I'm just trying to return the favor.


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## peter nap

I bought the Northern too, but haven't tried it yet. Everything I do lately seems to have both a learning curve and a tinker and tweak period.


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## user 19670

glennschumann

That is a most interesting jig you made yourself. You earned yourself a rep for that one


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## DRB

Glen

I like your chain holder tool. I might have to try something like that. As for now I always have to put my used chains back onto my saw so that I can sharpen them by hand in a vice in the shop. I can sharpen them in the field if I need to but this is always awkward. I use a little metal plate called a file-o-plate to check the angles and raker depths.


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## duffontap

Glenn, 

Thanks for the help! The thing I like most about your jig is that you can sharpen chains off the bar with it. That is quite clever. I will try to make a copy in the next couple days. 

Questions:
Does your holder control the depth of the file? I.e., does it slide along the top of the tooth to keep the file from cutting straight down?

Do you file the rakers on every sharpening?

Thanks again, that is very helpful.

J. D.


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## glennschumann

Duff,

Glad you found this interesting. The file holder does control the depth of the file nicely. Stihl and Oregon make similar tools. Just make sure you get the right size for your chain. It is dependent on the pitch... 3/8 - 0.325 - 0.404. Stihl recommends 13/64" for 3/8" pitch, Oregon recommends 7/32" I think. Yes, the file holder runs across the top of the cutter on the chain. 

I do not file the rakers every time I sharpen. I have a depth jig (Stihl makes one) that tells me if I need to file them down. When I do, I do take a few passes with a flat file on each raker, and I do round the leading edge so that it slides easier in the cut. I tend to err a bit on the side of leaving them a bit long because I only have an 066, and a 42" bar. The shorter the raker, the more bite, and it is easier it is to have the chain catch, rather than cut.

By the way, the chain holder has those side wings on it so that it rests on top of the vise jaws, just above the vise screw. If you don't add those wings, the wooden jig will not be steady in the vise.

I admit that chain sharpening is not what I would choose as a career, and like many tasks, I don't like doing it if it is difficult. This jig makes it as easy as I think it could get. My 42" loops take a bit of time, yes, but it is actually kind of therapeutic after a day at the office. I don't want to admit that I actually like sharpening chains, but this is as close as it gets.


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## oldsaw

If your filing is getting poorer results, you need to check two things. The first has been mentioned, check the raker depth. My old Husky dealer had a thin metal plate that hooked over the cutter and set the level for the raker. Just hit it with a flat file and move on. I liked it so much, I bought a couple more before they went out of business.

The second thing is to make sure that you aren't forcing the file down into the gullet and not filing the cutting edge. You need to keep upward pressure on the file so you keep an edge on the cutter, not leave a rounded off edge and a bigger gullet.

Mark


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## Rodney Sinclair

This is what I use.It works quite well.

Rodney


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## BobL

My chain vice is a vice for sharpening (as well as jointing and cutting) the teeth on hand saws but it works well for chains as well. The vice is held vertical by a large woodworking vice on my woodworking bench. With such a long bed I only have to rotate my chain 3 times on a the chain that fits my 42" bar. The other thing is that the extra height brings sharpening up to a comfortable height - also I have crap eyesight so I wear a head mounted magnifier to sharpen






The tap handles set into the bottom of the vice provide additional leverage/force on the top clamp than is possible with the middle thru bolts.


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## oldsaw

Dang, Bob, that's awful pretty for a chain vise. Funny what we millers will use for our "stuff". Can't really justify buying something, so we use what's at hand.

Nice work.

Mark


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## duffontap

oldsaw said:


> If your filing is getting poorer results, you need to check two things. The first has been mentioned, check the raker depth. My old Husky dealer had a thin metal plate that hooked over the cutter and set the level for the raker. Just hit it with a flat file and move on. I liked it so much, I bought a couple more before they went out of business.
> 
> The second thing is to make sure that you aren't forcing the file down into the gullet and not filing the cutting edge. You need to keep upward pressure on the file so you keep an edge on the cutter, not leave a rounded off edge and a bigger gullet.
> 
> Mark



Hey Mark, I know I don't keep enough upward pressure. I think I may be experiencing both of these problems. Up until two days ago, I was beside myself with how well my free-hand-sharpened chains were performing. These two problems would explain why my performance tapered off after 4-5 sharpenings. 

I assume the 'universal depth gauge jig' from Baileys is what I need?

J. D. Duff


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## Dai Sensei

BobL said:


> My chain vice is a vice for sharpening (as well as jointing and cutting) the teeth on hand saws but it works well for chains as well. The vice is held vertical by a large woodworking vice on my woodworking bench. With such a long bed I only have to rotate my chain 3 times on a the chain that fits my 42" bar. The other thing is that the extra height brings sharpening up to a comfortable height - also I have crap eyesight so I wear a head mounted magnifier to sharpen
> 
> The tap handles set into the bottom of the vice provide additional leverage/force on the top clamp than is possible with the middle thru bolts.



Nice one Bob. I especially like the tap handles, you obviously have access to cheap plumbing supplies


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## Matildasmate

duffontap said:


> Sounds pretty good to me. Did you get this one:


 That's the exact same model I bought from Northerntool , it is great , I have been using it for quite a while now . There are a million way's to sharpen your ripping chain , I do my Carlton ripping chain's at 15 deg's x 45 deg's , but I only use ripping chain above 24" , any chain 24" or less , I use normal cross cut chain now a day's , it hold's it's edge better and cut's faster , yeah sure the surface is a little rougher , but I am sure the thicknesser wont mind , any thing above the 24" chain I use ripping chain to get a smoother surface , because I will have to do all the work getting the surface smooth by hand . Cheer's MM


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## BobL

oldsaw said:


> Dang, Bob, that's awful pretty for a chain vise. Funny what we millers will use for our "stuff". Can't really justify buying something, so we use what's at hand.



Yep - my thoughts exactly - The long piece of timber cross the top is Western Australian Jarrah and is a left over piece of skirting boards that we used in renovating our house. The verticals I think are Blue gum.

DS the tap handles are from my junk plumbing box. I have FILs collection of some 60 years and my 35 year collection of old brass and galvanized fittings - I have even used bits on my CS mill.


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## Adkpk

*oregon 511a*

I go 5% across the front at a 55% angle. I start to reduce the depth gauges after maybe 10-12 sharpenings. Slight reduction for hard woods, radical for pine and softwoods. I will often readjust the depth gauges while in the middle of a log to achieve some more bite. 

Thanks for the up force in the gullet advice Oldsaw, good one.


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## oldsaw

Adrpk said:


> I go 5% across the front at a 55% angle. I start to reduce the depth gauges after maybe 10-12 sharpenings. Slight reduction for hard woods, radical for pine and softwoods. I will often readjust the depth gauges while in the middle of a log to achieve some more bite.
> 
> Thanks for the up force in the gullet advice Oldsaw, good one.



I learned/figured out how to hand file a chain at a very tender age. Dad would pay a guy at work to do chains who charged him a buck or two each. The guy quit or got fired (probably for sharpening chains on the job), so Dad showed me as much as he knew. Since I was too young to run a saw, he would tell me when I did good. It took a few sharpenings, but I started figuring out what was going on. I tried to figure out what the guy before me had done, but found out he was sort of a hack pretty quick. Dad had one new chain, so I put the drivers in the vise, and looked at what was happening. Put the file in, and tried to memorize the angle.

I thew an old chain in the vise, and realized the "old" guy used to push the file down into the gullet and wasn't getting the corner very well. He was also hitting the rakers too hard and not very evenly. After a couple of sharpenings to even things out, I got to be a half decent chain guy at the age of 12 or 13. Dad was happy. When I moved out, he went to the nearest saw store to have them professionally done. I got to do a couple for him last summer, then tune up his "new" Dolmar 115 (?) which wasn't runnnig right. Runs like a top now.

What you need to watch for is the file making a good corner, following the top plate at the right angle, and with enough upward pressure to cut a new edge, and enough backwards pressure to cut the side plate. 30 some odd years later, I don't think about it much so it gets hard to explain unless you are doing it. I could show you in three minutes and you could "get it" in less than an hour.

Keep working on it, it will come if you watch the file.

Mark


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## shokidq

the quickest way to check your raker is place your file on the diagonal across a left and right cutter & judge the gap down to the raker if there is no gap then you need to file the raker at least thats the way I was taught, you can use the raker guage which over here it tends to be the .25 only which for most is not quite agressive enough in the cut but in milling it could be different.


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## duffontap

The more you guys talk, the more ignorant I realize that I am.  That's great with me if it leads to sharper chains. I have the advantage of years of self-bowyery that have made me very comfortable and controlled with hand tools, but I don't yet understand the theory--which is where you guys are really helping me out here!

My next question is about angles. On my Carlton A3 series chain, the factory grind is a 10 degree top plate and a 75 degree side plate. Does that mean that I should cut the top plate with upward pressure at 10 degrees and then drop down and make another pass on the side plate at 75 degrees? Or, is the entire tooth sharpened on a single series of passes? So far I have only concentrated on the top plate angles. 

Thanks to Everyone for the help!

J. D.


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## oldsaw

duffontap said:


> The more you guys talk, the more ignorant I realize that I am.  That's great with me if it leads to sharper chains. I have the advantage of years of self-bowyery that have made me very comfortable and controlled with hand tools, but I don't yet understand the theory--which is where you guys are really helping me out here!
> 
> My next question is about angles. On my Carlton A3 series chain, the factory grind is a 10 degree top plate and a 75 degree side plate. Does that mean that I should cut the top plate with upward pressure at 10 degrees and then drop down and make another pass on the side plate at 75 degrees? Or, is the entire tooth sharpened on a single series of passes? So far I have only concentrated on the top plate angles.
> 
> Thanks to Everyone for the help!
> 
> J. D.



That's going to depend on the age of the chain in some cases. Your first order of business is the cutting corner and the top plate. Next is the side plate. You should be able to get them in one motion, two passes if you are just dressing a chain up. It's still a bit hard for me in rip chain because it isn't "natural" with a 5-10 degree top plate. My hand wants a 30 degree, but that passes quickly.

You don't need a ton of upward pressure, just enough to keep the file on the underside of the top plate cutting edge and corner. Otherwise you will booger the corner or the edge on the top plate. Also, don't try to make really long strokes on the file, since you will have a tendency to run your elbow out of linear motion and start to make a loop with it, which pulls the file out of the corner and puts too much cut on the far side of the top plate.

It will all make sense with a file in your hand and a chain in front of you. A bit hard to explain with neither.

Mark


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## duffontap

oldsaw said:


> That's going to depend on the age of the chain in some cases. Your first order of business is the cutting corner and the top plate. Next is the side plate. You should be able to get them in one motion, two passes if you are just dressing a chain up. It's still a bit hard for me in rip chain because it isn't "natural" with a 5-10 degree top plate. My hand wants a 30 degree, but that passes quickly.
> 
> You don't need a ton of upward pressure, just enough to keep the file on the underside of the top plate cutting edge and corner. Otherwise you will booger the corner or the edge on the top plate. Also, don't try to make really long strokes on the file, since you will have a tendency to run your elbow out of linear motion and start to make a loop with it, which pulls the file out of the corner and puts too much cut on the far side of the top plate.
> 
> It will all make sense with a file in your hand and a chain in front of you. A bit hard to explain with neither.
> 
> Mark



Ok, so both the side plate and top plate are cut in a single pass. That's what I needed to know. I have a fresh ripping chain so I'll go study it with file in hand. 

J. D.


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## dustytools

I started out sharpening my chains using a bar mounted jig similar to the one that Granberg sells. After using it for a month or so I started freehanding them with pretty good luck. It may sound kinda odd but the jig was kinda like a set of training wheels for me.


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## Mad Professor

For my ripping chains I use a Pferd file holder that takes down the rakers as you sharpen the cutters. It holds two files the round one for the cutters and a flat one for the rakers.


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## duffontap

I took everyone's advice to heart and sharpened the chain currently on my bar this morning before church. It looks very sharp. I'm hoping to cut up a 20" x 8' Hemlock log tomorrow so I'll get to see how sharp it is in action.  

J. D. Duff


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## lmbeachy

Don't know if this is the approved method to check a chain to see if it is sharp, or if any one else does this, but this is the way I check it. After sharpening the chain I lightly drag my thumb nail across the front edge of the chain. If it is sharp it will begin to scrap or cut a fine edge from your thumbnail. Then it is sharp. Works for me.


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## oldsaw

lmbeachy said:


> Don't know if this is the approved method to check a chain to see if it is sharp, or if any one else does this, but this is the way I check it. After sharpening the chain I lightly drag my thumb nail across the front edge of the chain. If it is sharp it will begin to scrap or cut a fine edge from your thumbnail. Then it is sharp. Works for me.



I usually notice that I took a slice out of one of my fingers somehow.

To each their own, I guess.  

Mark


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## parrisw

The Husky combi gauge works very well, does the cutters and rakers. I also have a oregon raker gauge as well.


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## Matildasmate

I use one of those Carlton file-o-plate's to do my depth gage's , it work's great , I generally file the first depth gage by hand , then I set the grinder up at that and do the rest that way . Cheer's MM


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## duffontap

Matildasmate said:


> I use one of those Carlton file-o-plate's to do my depth gage's , it work's great , I generally file the first depth gage by hand , then I set the grinder up at that and do the rest that way . Cheer's MM



Does Carlton make a plate for their ripping chains? I was looking on Bailey's but I didn't see one that fit my chain. I guess the depth gauge part of the plate would still work though?

J. D.


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## parrisw

This is the combi gauge, works great, it holds you at the 10deg tilt, and the right depth. You just need to know your angles.


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## Matildasmate

duffontap said:


> Does Carlton make a plate for their ripping chains? I was looking on Bailey's but I didn't see one that fit my chain. I guess the depth gauge part of the plate would still work though?
> J. D.



Not that I know of , I just use the same one I use for my crosscut chain's , work's great very accurate and simple to use , been using it for some time now , I am very happy with it . Cheer's MM


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## duffontap

OK, I got out and milled for a couple hours this morning. I am pretty happy with the improvements in my hand sharpening. Yesterday morning I carefully filed my newest Carlton A3 loop keeping a close eye on the factory grind. I also made one pass on each raker even though it was only my second sharpening because I was suspicious that the depth gauges were set a little bit on the conservative side. 

I definitely made an improvement in speed. I was cutting Hemlock 1 x 11"s 8' long in just over 2 1/2 minutes a pass. That was after a couple passes through dirty bark to get it to cant form. I'm using a 281xp so I'm not powering my way through but I'm currently happy with the speed I'm getting. 

Thanks for the help and advice from everyone.

J. D. Duff


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## oldsaw

It will keep getting better as your skill improves.

Mark


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## DRB

Matildasmate said:


> Not that I know of , I just use the same one I use for my crosscut chain's , work's great very accurate and simple to use , been using it for some time now , I am very happy with it . Cheer's MM



That sounds like the same one that I use. I like that I can sharpen the chain and then set the rakers. The plate protects the cutters while filing the rakers.


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## duffontap

oldsaw said:


> It will keep getting better as your skill improves.
> 
> Mark



My chains are actually sharper than I thought:

http://arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=62112

Ha, ha. I was happy until I realized this. Now I'm in the market for something bigger.  

J. D. Duff


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## Adkpk

duffontap said:


> Does Carlton make a plate for their ripping chains? I was looking on Bailey's but I didn't see one that fit my chain. I guess the depth gauge part of the plate would still work though?
> 
> J. D.



Filling the depth gauge when milling becomes an art. It is different for every circumstance. Hp, wood type, conditions (freezing, wet wood, etc) I sharpen the chain cut a little and if the saw is pulling with no resistance but I am not getting through the log I file the depth gauges. File to much and your ruining your saw. A bitting saw chain is a no go.


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