# high volume tall tree sprays



## arboromega (Nov 10, 2004)

does anyone else think with advent of modern tree injection guns, capsules, etc , that high volume high pressure tall tree sprays have lost their place in modern arboriculture? 
i was doing some 60' plus sprays today and the drift was all over the place. it always is no matter how much i control pressure change my gun tips or how cqalm the breeze is. i think this technique should fade away. opinions?


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## alanarbor (Nov 11, 2004)

I have to be honest, I don't think it can be eliminated. There's some insects that just don't respond well to systemic treatments. Obscure scale comes to mind. But the day of just indiscriminantly blasting everything is over. Making intelligent descisions about what and when to spray is the key. Managing plant health overall, rather than just going for individual problems has cut down on the big trees a lot. But there's still a place for the occasional tall tree blast.


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## Nickrosis (Nov 12, 2004)

I agree. For injections, I dislike wounding a tree to help it. Just seems to be a half step back to make one step forward.

For large tree spraying, it's a matter of biding your time to find good days to do it. And having a reality check along with you in the vehicle saying, "dude, you're not really going to spray in this wind." To which I say, of course not, I was just looking at the job and what we'll have to do. 

But there are good treatments in all forms, it's a matter of knowing when to use what.

And I can't tell you two apart.


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## bushman (Nov 18, 2004)

I would think a little hole in tree better than exposing your self and the enviorment around you.


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## NYCHA FORESTER (Nov 19, 2004)

What type of tree ( and pest ) are you treating this time of year?
And what are you using (I am guessing 2 or 3% hort oil).

I have found that injectng, whether it be soil drench (Merrit) or drilling little holes  in trees, works well on small to medium size trees. I have also found that trees 45' (16" DBH+) and taller don't seem to get very good control. I think more research has to be done to measure how just well these tall (not necessarily large) trees translocates these materials. I think its a combination of a rate issue and in many cases, since insects are secondary, root/compaction issues. 

And as Alanarbor mentioned, injections work best on xylem feeders not phloem feeder. Although aggressive phloem feeders do get wacked.

But what the heck do I know I have not killed a bug in 6 years.


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## alanarbor (Nov 19, 2004)

> _Originally posted by bushman _
> *I would think a little hole in tree better than exposing your self and the enviorment around you. *



I agree, and I always use the least toxic alternative, oils, soaps work really well on almost any pest. Just with a non residual material, you have to get really good coverage, and do a greater number of applications. Belive me, if I can get good control with a trunk injection, or soil treatment, I'm going to go that route. My point was that there are some situations you just can't get around, and as pointed out in the previous post, the control on tall trees may be less than great.


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## Nickrosis (Nov 19, 2004)

> _Originally posted by bushman _
> *I would think a little hole in tree better than exposing your self and the enviorment around you. *


Sorry, I don't follow the logic.

Putting a whole in the tree is automatically wounding it. If you can apply a foliar spray on a calm day, you avoid that and minimize environmental impact.

If you use injection capsules, you're exposing yourself to a *far* greater concentration and risk. Bidrin (Inject-a-cide B), for example, is toxic enough to kill me with just 4 droplets ingested. And only half a caplet on my skill is enough to kill me. Nothing else I deal with is nearly as dangerous as the injected materials.


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## Nickrosis (Nov 19, 2004)

> _Originally posted by NYCHA FORESTER _
> *I have found that injectng, whether it be soil drench (Merrit) or drilling little holes  in trees, works well on small to medium size trees. I have also found that trees 45' (16" DBH+) and taller don't seem to get very good control. I think more research has to be done to measure how just well these tall (not necessarily large) trees translocates these materials. I think its a combination of a rate issue and in many cases, since insects are secondary, root/compaction issues. *


What species are you experiencing this with? Honeylocusts seem quite responsive at all sizes that I've worked with.


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## NYCHA FORESTER (Nov 22, 2004)

I'm sorry Nick, I should have been more specific. Back when I worked in the private sector (and actually made money) I found that injections (in general) were not as effective in large trees vs small trees. 

The one time I did do an injection (bidrin) on a Honeylocust (located in a parking lot - years ago if I recall correctly) it had marginal results. Honey Locust are really tough trees (as you know) so I usually don't treat them with an insecticide (plant bug & mites primairly). I will give them a shot of organic fert and add a small amount of a High "N" fert and continue to moniter them. 

Spraying in a Urban environment is not a good thing IMO. Too many people around just looking for a reason to sue.


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## Nickrosis (Nov 23, 2004)

Very urban settings, I agree with you. Hence my 4am start times. 

But I would never ever use Bidrin on a honeylocust? What were you treating it for?

And why give a tree stressed with insect problems high-N fertilizer specifically? Many insects have incredible sensory organs that allow them to locate high concentrations of the nutrients they need, nitrogen being one of them. By giving a stressed tree more nitrogen, you can be sealing the casket!

Not trying to be mean or anything, but I'm just wondering what led you to your treatments. Thanks!


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## NYCHA FORESTER (Nov 23, 2004)

You spray in some parts of NYC you run the risk of getting shot not to mentioned summoned by the PD.

Honey Locust was treated for borers if I recall correctly ( the salesman sold the job not me)

I will give them a shot of organic fert and add a SMALL amount of a High "N" fert and continue to moniter them. I should have underlined small


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## Nickrosis (Nov 24, 2004)

Oh, I've gotten stopped by the police for spraying too early in the morning. But no bullets were flying. The last time I slept in NYC, I could hear shots throughout the night, so I'm slightly aware of the different, uh, business climates.

BTW, I always ask people why they're fertilizing. It gets some great responses sometimes.


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