# how does one reduce a conifer



## 1I'dJak

i understand the harm in topping.... but how would one 'reduce' a conifer... i see understand how to do it on a broad tree....but on a conifer, topping seems to be the only way to reduce a tree for a customer....


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## clearance

Jak-I like conifers and don't think they should be topped without a good reason (powerline, view), can you not just windfirm it, or cut a view hole?


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## robert f

clearance said:


> Jak-I like conifers and don't think they should be topped without a good reason (powerline, view), can you not just windfirm it, or cut a view hole?



What is windfirming? I've seen you mention it a few times now and I've never heard of it.


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## 1I'dJak

a lot of customers here in vic (oldtimers) want trees topped for view, so no more needles fall in the gutters, cuz they're paranoid, or they've been topped before...etc...I can't really tell them not to cuz i'm just the climber...I'd be out of a job if i convinced everybody not to top... although i got sent on my first estimate and convinced a lady not to top her cedar tree...as there was other stuff to do....got a good price for my first est...


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## Stumper

Wildcard, It depends on the type of reduction you are after. "Normal" reduction on a conifer to reduce encroachment on sidewalks/houses/driveways is simple -cut to laterals leave substancial needle bearing laterals on the limbs and you can 'shrink' one quite a bit. Done properly the tree will of course grow back out-but it will tend to get thicker and spread more slowly after each succeeding reduction. If you must take 1/3 of the height off of a sizable conifer then you are stuck with topping-Which is lousy tree care but may be good powerline maintenance.


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## 1I'dJak

yeah it is lousy tree care but I guess, i'd rather convince somebody to top a tree than to remove it... some people, specially here on the coast want their views cuz they pay big bucks... i also feel that here in bc, specially in the productive coastal forest zone, people are a bit more causal about trees...however, i did reccomend topping a tree... the top had been damaged and there was rot and a big peckers nest below a couple of the top whorls...the tree (douglas fire was fairly tall and skinny as well) ...we brought it down to sound wood...was this proper?...the winds blow here and it was a backyard with a trampoline, sandbox...etc (high traffic)


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## rebelman

I'm totally against topping healthy trees, but if there was rot like you say or other problems, then yes, at times, I think it's called for. I do like cutting view holes, like clearance mentioned, maybe line up with a breakfast nook and clear for a very specific view. "More sky" requests make that difficult. Or not only wanting to see the water of a lake, but the houses on the other side, the tree line, and "more sky". Double trees are nice in that situation, I'm usually good with eliminating one, and the customer is surprised I'll recomend cutting that much. Was cutting it back to sound wood proper? I'd say yes.


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## Mr_Brushcutter

How would one go about reducing a Leylandii? Lots of it round here and it just goes streigh up without being very wide.

See lots of it topped with varing degrees of asthetic value, whats the proper way to reduce the hight of these things?


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## Mr_Brushcutter

pete mctree said:


> i do not hold leylandii In great esteem, but like most of the contractors in the uk they do provide me a significant income. When topping them u have to b cautious to retain any aesthetic value. If the tree has never been topped before (which is quite rare around here) and it has resonable form and causing no problems then why top it? If you are going to top it then remember that it is going to initially have a flat top as shaping is not possible. secondly be aware of proportions. If you take too much off the top it sometimes be as wide as tall and if trimmed can look like giant green goblets instead of tree/shrubs. Thirdly remember to cut down all visable stumps as they, due to the absence of dormant buds will not re grow and will be an eye-sore until covered by the growth of the foliage around it. hope this is of use.
> pete



Thats great thanks. Leylandii is used in hedges loads round here and they get massive blocking all light into garden. I've seen them topped in various ways, the way you described is the one that i though looked best. However i've seen the green blobs too which do look pants.


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## Rygel

After coming back from hurricane katrina work I want all conifers close to my house gone.The problem was not usually the ones in the persons yard but the niebors! Anyway, I've just always heard not to top them because it causes death but heck i work for a utlilty and we top them everyday (when the supervisor cracks his whip you do what he says!LOL


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## treeseer

Sounds like reducing the doug fir was proper to get the decayed portion out--look at it as anticipating natural failure.

I reduce leylands all the time, angling cuts to good laterals growing to the south. I take up to 1/3 of the height off; best to start young.

re taking down all conifers for fear of storms, I recommend planting more trees so they act as a grove and support each other.


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## 1I'dJak

i recommend reducing lelandii by 100%! I curse those dman things...they consist of a good 30% of our work...leylandii hedges... they suck, specially without a bucket truck... their growth rings are amazingly huge, maintenance is important especially in windy areas like here in victoria


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## treeseer

1I'dJak said:


> i recommend reducing lelandii by 100%! I curse those dman things...they consist of a good 30% of our work...leylandii hedges... they suck, specially without a bucket truck..


Hey Jack, maybe you're missing that other eye if you can't see the ease of using a ladder on leylandii. I may curse too (silently) if I had to climb up the insides.

Anyone use growth regulators on leylandii?


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## pbtree

treeseer said:


> Anyone use growth regulators on leylandii?



The only growth regulator I like on the darn things is a open face cut about 6 inches off the ground...     

One of my least favorite species...


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## PTS

Rygel said:


> After coming back from hurricane katrina work I want all conifers close to my house gone.The problem was not usually the ones in the persons yard but the niebors! Anyway, I've just always heard not to top them because it causes death but heck i work for a utlilty and we top them everyday (when the supervisor cracks his whip you do what he says!LOL




Although the pines caused large amounts of damage I don't believe that it was caused do to the tree itself. I had several customers have us take down all of their pines for fear of them falling on the houses. I can understand the concern down there. 95% of the pines that we cut in a residential area, were up rooted, not broken off. This was due to the poor soil content and the lack of root system. With Western Louisiana so close to sea level and the amount of available water in the ground and the fact that they don't know what sand is in there soil, these items played the biggest part in the up rooting. The root system didn't appear to have to spread very much to seek the water that was needed. Therefore making the root ball small in nature and not giving it stability at the base which is needed to be able to stand the force from the wind. Put those same trees here in Iowa and I would be concerned at all. Now would I have them in my yard. NO I hate pines. Nothing but a mess. JMO


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## rebelman

Makes me wonder how many would have failed had their root zones been protected for years with large raised beds.


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## Nickrosis

robert f said:


> What is windfirming? I've seen you mention it a few times now and I've never heard of it.


Clearance? If it's anything like www.windfirm.com, I'm concerned!


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## OutOnaLimb

What type of conifer are we talking about here? When I worked for Asplundh on a mountain crew clearing the distrabution lines we would spike up and top everything under the line. Almost every Engelman or blue spruce looked natural from the ground, but when I got to the tops I could see where the cut was made years ago and there were 4 or 5 new sucker tops taking over. Every species will react diffrently to a topping job. And my idea of topping may be different than some others. Reducing the crown to the next lateral is common practice. How ever, hat racking trees is very detramental. i dont really see much harm in reducing the crown in conifers other than water entering the tree and causing decay.

Kenn


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## clearance

Nick-kind of but that machine couldn't do it, those are little second growth trees in Scotland. Here I windfirm oldgrowth cedar, spruce and hemlock usually over 100' sometimes over 200', the most I have climbed so far is about 180'. We climb up and cut the biggest branches then top it at about five or six inches. They have a machine that hangs from a helicopter like a boom mower, but it leaves widowmakers and can't make good cuts. This is the best climbing job I have ever had, good money, good hours, no people except for loggers and I am making sure creeks don't get blocked and damaged by fallen wood. I climb with spurs and wear caulks, so what, if someone has never been in an old growth rainforest they have no idea how tough these trees are. Same idea though, preventing blowdown.


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## Nickrosis

:monkey: 

No concern about the ability of the trees to keep photosynthesizing and making food? Oh well...


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## clearance

Nick-you should know better than that, old growth rainforest. Trees here can take brutal events and live, I have seen big co-doms that had one stem ripped right off by the wind or another tree that fell. I mean like a tree with half of its branches gone with the co-dom stem. Catfaces over 40' that have healed or are healing, trees topped by the wind that would have been way over 200' but are now 150' with a 4' top, living. Trees that have been side limbed ground to sky by falling trees, doing great. Red cedars that are hollow with rot, catfaces all over, spike tops, alive. These trees that are windfirmed really only have to live untill the understory grows up, 20 years? As far as spurs and caulks, forget spurless climbing, some of the branches don't start for 80' and on cedars they all droop down, good luck. And you have to, by work laws, wear caulks. Any one that wouldn't wear caulks in the bush, on logging slash, logs is stupid anyways. Look into it educate yourself.


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## 1I'dJak

the windfirming i've done has been in 2nd growth doug fir blocks( we firmed the dominant trees along the cut blocks, and though it may hurt the tree a bit, it sbetter than the thing blowing over.... these trees are 120-200' tall and pretty skinny for their size, since are all of an even age and competing for sunlight.... the ground they are growing has been comprimized by harvesting, the they uproot fairly easily....I've tree planted beside these trees in high winds and it can look pretty sketchy....though i've only done this job for a few weeks it was awesome... made a man of me.... you climb the tree, work your way pretty much to the top (we only topped hemlock and just delimbed 30-50% of the upper canopy of the rest of the species)... then, to avoid climbing up and down trees all day, you tie into the tree, pull out your trusty grapple hook, chuck in onto the limbs of your next target tree, use your ascender to get the line taught (which is secured to your d-rings as well), and once she's tight, you release on your taughtline/blake's and zing towards that tree, hoping your grapple doesn't release! One guy favorite thing to do (who was noted for his pretty long grapple swings) would be to push the button on his radio, so we could here his rope zinging! After doing this, i came back to res and I had much more confidence, which was good for my learning curve..


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## BigJohn

I would cut it down and strart from new.


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