# The truth about Auto-Tune and M-Tronic



## Hustihler (Sep 22, 2012)

I would like to dedicate this thread to shedding light on how many problems or lack of problems with Husqvarna auto-tune saws and Stihl M-tronic saws. I have seen a lot of threads lately bashing both systems(some by people who havent even used/tried either system). I would like to hear from people who actually own or have owned these saws. I would like to know who's actually having problems with these saws, what the problem is, and how it was resolved; also I want to hear from people who own these saws and don't have any issues and how long they've been used for/owned. I'll start, I own both a 550xp and a 562xp and they are both in the shop right now for warm/hot start issues(I actually started a thread about these issues earlier this week). To be more specific, I have owned the 562xp since early July 2012 and I started having issues with it about 3 weeks ago; it will cold start perfectly but once it gets warm, restarts consistently take about 5-7 pulls sometimes more(this problem wasn't apparent when I first got it, was always 1 to 3 pulls like normal warm starts on most saws) , but I could always get it to restart. The saw is of course under warranty, so it's at the dealer right now for repair. My 550xp, which I've owned since August 2012, will also cold start flawlessly, but once it gets warm/hot it would restart properly sometimes, but would get to the point that now matter how many pulls it would not restart unless you let it sit at least 30 minutes, sometimes longer. According to my dealer, both saws are getting new carbs and coils; I'll let you guys know when I get them back if that fixes my issues.
I'm personally a big fan of this new technology and IMHO the 550 and 562 are both fantastic saws, even though I'm going thru some "growing pains" right now. 
I know this won't be a definitive "poll" of sorts, but I'm just trying to separate myth from reality. I just want the "nay-sayers" to see that more people are having good experiences, rather than bad; at least thats what I hope, lol. Of course I could be wrong. I know I can't sway other people's opinions, but at least hopefully we can put some facts out there for all to see. Of course here's some pre-shop pics.View attachment 253770
View attachment 253771


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## saxman (Sep 22, 2012)

I have had a MS441R CM for almost a year and had zero issues. It has been a great saw and I have really been impressed with the performance 

Steve


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## Tzed250 (Sep 22, 2012)

550XP here. No real issues, other than having to engage fast idle when warm, sometimes. My saw is ported and muffler modded by me. One great thing about AutoTune, my saw had an air leak and the AT compensated for it. A carb saw may have let it lean seize.


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## Bearing_Grease (Sep 22, 2012)

my 562xpg fires up first pull when warm everytime, altho after about 10 mins I gotta choke on then choke off just for that little bit of throttle for a 1 pull start. ill see what happens when its -35c out. I love that 562, she's a great saw.


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## T0RN4D0 (Sep 22, 2012)

I don't have one but would love to have the new carbs on all my saws. I wouln't miss worrying if my saw is set too lean or if im leaving power in the saw... 

And hell you know you're leaving some power in the saw, especially when youre cutting 2 and 20" pieces with the same saw, at one point the mix will be off.


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## RandyMac (Sep 22, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> 550XP here. No real issues, other than having to egage fast idle when warm, sometimes. My saw is ported and muffler modded by me. One great thing about AutoTune, my saw had an air leak and the AT compensated for it. *A carb saw may have let it lean seize*.



You mean an ignorant operator would have let it lean seize.


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## hamish (Sep 22, 2012)

No different than any other new saws that become available, just the AT/MT component give people with little understanding an easy way out.

The 346/026 in all shapes and forms are the most problematic saws that exist..........if you want to go based upon what people talk about. Hell 80 percent of users cant warm start a Husqvarna or Stihl properly anyways.

The AT system is incredible, MT?? don't know Stihl doesn't want to come out and play.


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## porsche965 (Sep 22, 2012)

550XP = Perfect.

441C = Perfect.

Mine are massaged by the best. I trust engine builders way more than MOST Dealers (Spike60 one of the exceptions). Support is the key in new technology if you only work with Dealers. Just like racing, the Teams know way more than those who sell the product.


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## hamish (Sep 22, 2012)

porsche965 said:


> 550XP = Perfect.
> 
> 441C = Perfect.
> 
> Mine are massaged by the best. I trust engine builders way more than MOST Dealers (Spike60 one of the exceptions). Support is the key in new technology if you only work with Dealers. Just like racing, the Teams know way more than those who sell the product.



Support is a key component, but we are still talking 2-stokes. Engine builders are for the few, everything else is for the masses. The At system makes the everyday day saw massaged by the best out of the box for 99% of the users.


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## waynewhitacre (Sep 22, 2012)

Have Stihl 441c used through summer about 10 tanks , no hot start issues or others, will see how she fairs cold weather!


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## naturelover (Sep 22, 2012)

Same here. No problems with the 441C other than the smile it puts on my face when I cut with it. Am down to one Swedish candle, so hopefully I can find some good logs tomorrow, course still have some blowdown from the june storms to cut up too.


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## Stihlman441 (Sep 22, 2012)

I have two ported 441Cs have run several stock and muff modded ones and have never had an auto tune issue.


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## Anthony_Va. (Sep 22, 2012)

Hav'ent had my 441C long enough to comment on long term, but I will say that it runs flawlessly so far. You can just hear the perfection in the engine everytime you give it the throttle.


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## CR500 (Sep 22, 2012)

I have no issues with my 441 R-CM, I'm not sure if this is a issue but sometimes when it's a little cold out, the chain will creep along the guide bar. but I have had other saws do this as well when it's cold.

On a side note today, I was just about out of gas and it would not idle down per-say it would spin the chain at reasonable speed... first time this has happened, other than that I have been more than pleased.


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## sunfish (Sep 22, 2012)

7-8 months with a 562xp and it has been flawless. Not used much this summer, but gettin with it now.

Just for comparison, I have 11 years and many hours on a 346xp and it has been flawless too.


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## RAMROD48 (Sep 22, 2012)

How about guys who sell and work on them?

Only M-Tronic we have gotten back for any type of repair...replace the spring mounts with the "hard mount kit" after the guy yanked it out of a tree...

I think he used the cable on the skidder...:msp_mellow:


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## mattaggie (Sep 22, 2012)

Could someone give a Auto Tune/M-Tronic for dummies lesson? I have a basic understanding of how a carburator works. How are these new technologies different?


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## RAMROD48 (Sep 22, 2012)

mattaggie said:


> Could someone give a Auto Tune/M-Tronic for dummies lesson? I have a basic understanding of how a carburator works. How are these new technologies different?



There are video's on you tube...


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## Stihlman441 (Sep 22, 2012)

I just worked out in the last two weeks have put 68 tanks of fuel through 3 ported 441R CMTronics,for me they are the best user friendly saw i have every used.:biggrin:


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## Jet47 (Sep 22, 2012)

Used my 550 the last 4 days at work, approx. 22 tanks of gas. Was a little hard to start once after I ran it completely out of gas. Chalked it up to user stupidity.

On another note I modded the muffler today.:biggrin:


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## Typhoon (Sep 22, 2012)

I have around 4 hours on a new 562xp, and in comparison to my old 357xp, it has snappier throttle response, and starts much easier (usually 1 pull) when hot. Thus far, I am impressed. :msp_thumbup:


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## Tzed250 (Sep 22, 2012)

RandyMac said:


> You mean an ignorant operator would have let it lean seize.



No, I didn't mean that. I hope you won't begrudge me a little automation Randy. I'm fairly sure you depend on the ignition in your vehicle to advance correctly. As you can see, like most things, it's not black and white.


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## spike60 (Sep 22, 2012)

If you Stihl guys knew who they _purchased_ their technology from, you'd be jumping off bridges all across the country. :smile2:


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## Andyshine77 (Sep 22, 2012)

spike60 said:


> If you Stihl guys knew who they _purchased_ their technology from, you'd be jumping off bridges all across the country. :smile2:




I've heard things.


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## gcsupraman (Sep 22, 2012)

The only problem with the M-tronic saws is once you run one you'll want them all to be M-tronic


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## Tzed250 (Sep 22, 2012)

Andyshine77 said:


> I've heard things.






I have it on good authority that they know something about engines, have for some time.


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## spike60 (Sep 22, 2012)

Andyshine77 said:


> I've heard things.




It's not a car company. :biggrin:


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## Andyshine77 (Sep 22, 2012)

spike60 said:


> It's not a car company. :biggrin:



So not Porsche:msp_mellow: I thought they helped Stihl out with the M-tronic system. Well I guess the only option left is ECHO.:msp_lol:


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## Officer's Match (Sep 22, 2012)

Frankly I love my 441R C-M, it's easily the best running (and behaving) saw I've ever ran. Spot on perfect carburation regardless of temp/humidity/elevation/air filter condition/phase of the moon/coldcut expiration date/Lindsey Lohan probation status or any other factor. I for one do wish all my saws had M-Tronic, as I much prefer to work with 'em as to on 'em.


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## RandyMac (Sep 23, 2012)

Tzed250 said:


> No, I didn't mean that. I hope you won't begrudge me a little automation Randy. I'm fairly sure you depend on the ignition in your vehicle to advance correctly. As you can see, like most things, it's not black and white.



No problem big guy. I do realize that many who run saws are clueless and won't notice if the danged thing is acting up.
The old Ford has Autolite's spark control valve on the carb, it works well if setup correctly and poorly if not.


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## deye223 (Sep 23, 2012)

spike60 said:


> It's not a car company. :biggrin:



so was it china or russia


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## ckelp (Sep 23, 2012)

deye223 said:


> so was it china or russia



the way to tell russia over engineers things then builds it with cheep materials..
china engineers it to be good then uses cheep materials to build it then saves money by using a cadaver for quality control

get it??


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## sachsmo (Sep 23, 2012)

correct me if i'm off base here.

The M tronic seems to have;

Inputs,
tach
temp
WOT micro
Ouputs,
fuel delivery solenoid 
variable timing
Not much input for the processor to work with eh?

There is no A/F feedback, So is a correct assumption that there are two modes, Start and WOT?

Guess with the "memory" it just stores pre-determined "recipes". Looks like a couple different PID loops to me.


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## SawTroll (Sep 23, 2012)

Bearing_Grease said:


> my 562xpg fires up first pull when warm everytime, altho after about 10 mins I gotta choke on then choke off just for that little bit of throttle for a 1 pull start. ill see what happens when its -35c out. I love that 562, she's a great saw.



It is normal to use "high idle" like that, when the saw has been sitting for 10 mins.


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## SawTroll (Sep 23, 2012)

deye223 said:


> so was it china or russia



No.


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## Hustihler (Sep 23, 2012)

Thanks for all the good posts. I'm glad a lot of people are having good luck with both Autotune and M-tronic. I'm wondering now about the warm start procedure on the 562xp and 550xp. My dealer showed me and the instruction manual confirmed that for warm/hot restarts always pull out and up on the red button then push it back down, push in decomp and pull. Is this correct or is there another technique for warm/hot restarts? I'm wondering now if when you push down on the red button to stop the saw does it automatically sets the saw back to the run position. I'm also curious if there is a difference between a hot and a warm restart, even though I can't find any info in the instruction manual and my dealer never made any distinction between the two.


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## Tzed250 (Sep 23, 2012)

RandyMac said:


> No problem big guy. I do realize that many who run saws are clueless and won't notice if the danged thing is acting up.
> The old Ford has Autolite's spark control valve on the carb, it works well if setup correctly and poorly if not.



Believe me, I've heard it. "It was running great, then it just quit!"


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## Showme (Sep 23, 2012)

Hustihler said:


> Thanks for all the good posts. I'm glad a lot of people are having good luck with both Autotune and M-tronic. I'm wondering now about the warm start procedure on the 562xp and 550xp. My dealer showed me and the instruction manual confirmed that for warm/hot restarts always pull out and up on the red button then push it back down, push in decomp and pull. Is this correct or is there another technique for warm/hot restarts? I'm wondering now if when you push down on the red button to stop the saw does it automatically sets the saw back to the run position. I'm also curious if there is a difference between a hot and a warm restart, even though I can't find any info in the instruction manual and my dealer never made any distinction between the two.



Usually on my 562XP it'll restart warm on the first pull. If it doesn't then on the next pull I pull out and up on the red button then push it back down, push in decomp and pull and it will start. It took me a while to learn that because I didn't read the "correction manual". I always read it only if all else fails.


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## sunfish (Sep 23, 2012)

Hustihler said:


> Thanks for all the good posts. I'm glad a lot of people are having good luck with both Autotune and M-tronic. I'm wondering now about the warm start procedure on the 562xp and 550xp. My dealer showed me and the instruction manual confirmed that for warm/hot restarts always pull out and up on the red button then push it back down, push in decomp and pull. Is this correct or is there another technique for warm/hot restarts? * I'm wondering now if when you push down on the red button to stop the saw does it automatically sets the saw back to the run position.* I'm also curious if there is a difference between a hot and a warm restart, even though I can't find any info in the instruction manual and my dealer never made any distinction between the two.



Yes, when pushed down to kill, it automatically comes back to run. High idle work just like the old ones, choke on, then choke off.


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## RAMROD48 (Sep 23, 2012)

If it was Husky, maybe they did an even swap for all the Zama carbs Husky needs to make their saws run right....


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## CATDIESEL (Sep 23, 2012)

spike60 said:


> If you Stihl guys knew who they _purchased_ their technology from, you'd be jumping off bridges all across the country. :smile2:


 why don't you enlighten us, whomever/wherever they "purchased" it from, it must be pretty good, as it is a trouble free system..........unlike husky? by the way , what company did husky buy up to get their autotune, isn't the typical husky m.o.?


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## John_DeereGreen (Sep 23, 2012)

441 MTronic here. I bought it about a month after they were released and threw it into production firewood. I'm guessing it's had 200 tanks put through it in the last year and a half. Zero issues, I would buy another one tomorrow.

It went from 20 degree winter, to 110 degree summer and didn't miss a beat.


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## Jacob J. (Sep 23, 2012)

spike60 said:


> If you Stihl guys knew who they _purchased_ their technology from, you'd be jumping off bridges all across the country. :smile2:





Andyshine77 said:


> I've heard things.





Tzed250 said:


> I have it on good authority that they know something about engines, have for some time.



And here I thought it was Redmax... umpkin:


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## Officer's Match (Sep 23, 2012)

SawTroll said:


> It is normal to use "high idle" like that, when the saw has been sitting for 10 mins.



Not my C-M; just flip switch to "on" and give it a little tug and it will jump to life. Even cold, push lever all the way down to "cold start" and 3 pulls max to a strong idle that appears completely unlikely to die. After it's been started (even momentarily) its one pull EVERY time. The M-Tronic really is a dream to run.


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## Steeltech (Sep 23, 2012)

*Hard mount kit*

Never heard of a 441 hard mount kit? What is it?QUOTE=RAMROD48;3851378]How about guys who sell and work on them?

Only M-Tronic we have gotten back for any type of repair...replace the spring mounts with the "hard mount kit" after the guy yanked it out of a tree...

I think he used the cable on the skidder...:msp_mellow:[/QUOTE]


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## SawTroll (Sep 23, 2012)

RAMROD48 said:


> If it was Husky, maybe they did an even swap for all the Zama carbs Husky needs to make their saws run right....



The "failing" Walbros were just the HDA 190-series, that was used on the 357xp/359 saws for some years - there mostly are other reasons when they choose to use Zama ones.


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## epicklein22 (Sep 23, 2012)

If you looking in the forestry section, you will see where a Mass. logger had a love and hate relationship with a 576xp. Ended up in the shop quite a bit....

I was all about a 562xp, but then my dealer sold a dud and the luster dropped off. He replaced all the components and nothing fixed it. Spent countless time with the saw and on the phone. Eventually Husky had him send it back....

I'm on the wait and see bandwagon for a little longer...


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## Steeltech (Sep 23, 2012)

*Strat scavenging and X-torq*

The Komatsu corporation holds the patent on what Stihl calls the Stratified scavenging 2-stroke engine design and what husky calls X-Torque. Both Stihl and Husky have made enough changes to the original patent that they were able utilize the technology? With Husky, this process was made a little easier as their parent company (Electrolux) purchased the Komatsu Corporation a few years back. With respect to auto-tune or M-Tronic, this design has been used for decades in the bike/marine/automotive industry and did not require "permission" or "purchase"


Jacob J. said:


> And here I thought it was Redmax... umpkin:


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## sachsmo (Sep 23, 2012)

The MT/AT are surely a compromise between longevity and top performance.

I would not doubt that the system could become erratic under certain conditions.

For most they are "close enough" to max performance, but there *are* certainly "built in limitations" for warranty considerations.


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## AndrewGeib (Sep 23, 2012)

Had my 441cm all summer the only problem I had with it was running out of wood to cut with it LOL!!!! What an awesome saw,never any issues:msp_thumbup:


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## CATDIESEL (Sep 23, 2012)

i am still hoping one of the resident "technology experts" here can tell us where it is that stihl got all of their second-rate-to husky-technology at. i live very close to a large bridge, and i don't know what i will do if i get an answer i don't like:msp_scared::msp_scared::msp_scared::msp_scared::msp_scared::msp_scared::msp_scared:


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## RAMROD48 (Sep 23, 2012)

Steeltech said:


> Never heard of a 441 hard mount kit? What is it?



1138 007 1007 AV-Spring kit, soft (1,2,7,9,13,15) 

1138 007 1003 AV-Spring kit, hard (3,4-6,8,10-12,14,16) 

Stihl and Husky have offered soft(reg) and hard mounts for years....


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## lmbrman (Sep 23, 2012)

550 and 562 here, both have been flawless- but so have my older saws, and for MANY years


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## Chris-PA (Sep 23, 2012)

sachsmo said:


> correct me if i'm off base here.
> 
> The M tronic seems to have;
> 
> ...


Based on the recent thread here, there is one switch and one fuel control solenoid in the carb. The switch looked to be for detecting the choke. There were two wires running to the carb from the "ignition" (which is clearly a control module now). They may have a temperature sensor in there, but who knows. They get power and rpm from the flywheel. Apparently all these systems do is lean it out for a moment every so many ignition pulses. Then, based on what happens they adjust mixture. So they don't need a lot of inputs since they're just watching what happens, and it doesn't need to be programmed much - the effects of all those input variables are included in the response to the lean out pulse.

It's not that different to listening to the misfire ("4-stroke") - you don't measure the temperature or air pressure, you tune it until you get the response you want. Except it happens continuously while the saw is running.

The carb is a variation of a standard Walbro design.

For what I can see from pictures people have posted, the AutoTune is different, with more stuff in the carb.


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## Arbonaut (Sep 23, 2012)

Intellicarb was always good. They been aiming at this mark for some time. M-Tronic is better than the old way. They burn real clean--I don't think they save any gas, though whatsover.

A well tuned MS261 or MS362 will save you a ton of gas. Not an M-Tronic MS441. They are a guzzler.


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## Sapo_feo (Sep 23, 2012)

I don't have an AT, but I've had the flyer for the 555 since it was announced. I thought about getting one, but the price wasn't right. Now the local shop has a floor model for $555. Can you get carb kits for these or is it going to be a toss and replace? 
The only downside I see is the if it does run into trouble I have a long drive to get it to a shop I trust. The local is just a place to buy.


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## Chris-PA (Sep 23, 2012)

Intellicarb has nothing to do with this - it's Stihl marketing speak for "not screwing up the diaphragm vent (i.e. bowl vent) placement". You know, like my old cinder block Mac did far more elegantly, or any B&S lawn mower has correct, or has been standard practice for maybe 60 years in everything else. On a Stihl you gotta pay extra for it.


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## Arbonaut (Sep 23, 2012)

WoodHeatWarrior said:


> Intellicarb has nothing to do with this - it's Stihl marketing speak for "not screwing up the diaphragm vent (i.e. bowl vent) placement". You know, like my old cinder block Mac did far more elegantly, or any B&S lawn mower has correct, or has been standard practice for maybe 60 years in everything else. On a Stihl you gotta pay extra for it.



Stihl has good marketing, and a cutting edge product, no doubt. The saws can be and are made to run far past the limitations of the chain, anyhow. Invariably, I find myself backing off to refuel and sharpen a far site before me and the Stihl was ready to quit. The 70cc plus saws are just a bottomless pit for fuel, but you can get a lot done in 10-15 minutes.


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## spike60 (Sep 23, 2012)

CATDIESEL said:


> i am still hoping one of the resident "technology experts" here can tell us where it is that stihl got all of their second-rate-to husky-technology at. i live very close to a large bridge, and i don't know what i will do if i get an answer i don't like



At the strong urging of the EU, and to avoid having the word "monopoly" rolling off the tongues of hungry lawyers, Husky sold Generation 1 Auto-Tune, (576), to Stihl. The somewhat more advanced Generation 2 AT, (550, 562), remains a Husky exclusive. (And admitedly has a few component issues to resolve). No need to jump off the bridge. If you're not ashamed of the anti-vibe and air injection piracy, don't sweat the engine management stuff. :msp_rolleyes:

There's a lot of sharing going on, and RAMROD48 is right on both counts. If Husky gets too unfriendly, Stihl could just say, "So, where are you guys going to be buying carbs?" :msp_w00t:

Saws are a lot of fun, at least for us saw geeks that spend a silly amount of time here. Don't get too hung up on the brand stuff.


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## Mountainman6288 (Sep 23, 2012)

spike60 said:


> At the strong urging of the EU, and to avoid having the word "monopoly" rolling off the tongues of hungry lawyers, Husky sold Generation 1 Auto-Tune, (576), to Stihl. The somewhat more advanced Generation 2 AT, (550, 562), remains a Husky exclusive. (And admitedly has a few component issues to resolve). No need to jump off the bridge. If you're not ashamed of the anti-vibe and air injection piracy, don't sweat the engine management stuff. :msp_rolleyes:
> 
> There's a lot of sharing going on, and RAMROD48 is right on both counts. If Husky gets too unfriendly, Stihl could just say, "So, where are you guys going to be buying carbs?" :msp_w00t:
> 
> Saws are a lot of fun, at least for us saw geeks that spend a silly amount of time here. Don't get too hung up on the brand stuff.




Wish I had posted HUSKY... Its seemed the only possibility. This is how Polaris-Ski-Do and Arctic Cat have handles inovations and infringements on snowmobiles.. Honda bought gen 1 hybrid technology from Toyota. The list goes on.


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## madhatte (Sep 23, 2012)

This stuff is pretty exciting. On the one hand, it's basically just TBI reheated and sped up. On the other hand, it offers digital control over things that had always been strictly mechanical. I've done some time with PWM and I can see how this tech could really save some maintenance costs... and wonder if that's in the best interests of corporate minds. Oh, and I am really impressed by the 562. I may just have to get me one a' them.


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## H 2 H (Sep 24, 2012)

Kinda unrelated but close

Last night was the last night of racing for mini sprints here in the PNW

Every team has a lap top that the plug into the brain of the race cars; they change the settings of the motors before heat races and main events depending on moister in the air - they don't change them self so each team makes the changes right before the cars go out on the track

I can see the advantages and disadvantages of a new system like this from what I've seen on race tracks. The teams that have it figured out rock on the track and then some don't have a clue about them 

I'm waiting on buying something on a saw to make sure they have a better handle on things and I understand it more IMO


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## Stihlman441 (Sep 24, 2012)

Ronald Reagan said:


> Intellicarb was always good. They been aiming at this mark for some time. M-Tronic is better than the old way. They burn real clean--I don't think they save any gas, though whatsover.
> 
> A well tuned MS261 or MS362 will save you a ton of gas. Not an M-Tronic MS441. They are a guzzler.



I have not found this at all,my ported 441C will get 30 to 35 min per tank,stock 460 20 to 25 mins per tank,ported 660 about 5 mins lol.
The other ported 441C i just got gets about 25 to 30 mins per tank.


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## Termite (Sep 24, 2012)

I am a little surprised by the number of 441 owners have responded and the relatively few 576AT.
I don't have much run time on my 576 but no problems yet.
I like my 576AT. I need to contact Mastermind!


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## SawTroll (Sep 24, 2012)

Mountain6288 said:


> Wish I had posted HUSKY... Its seemed the only possibility. This is how Polaris-Ski-Do and Arctic Cat have handles inovations and infringements on snowmobiles.. Honda bought gen 1 hybrid technology from Toyota. The list goes on.


There really was no other options left, was there? :msp_biggrin:


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## SawTroll (Sep 24, 2012)

Steeltech said:


> The Komatsu corporation holds the patent on what Stihl calls the Stratified scavenging 2-stroke engine design and what husky calls X-Torque. Both Stihl and Husky have made enough changes to the original patent that they were able utilize the technology? With Husky, this process was made a little easier as their parent company (Electrolux) purchased the Komatsu Corporation a few years back. With respect to auto-tune or M-Tronic, this design has been used for decades in the bike/marine/automotive industry and did not require "permission" or "purchase"



That is inaccurate at best, and E-lux was no longer the parent company of Husky, when Husky bought Zenoah (Redmax in the US) from Komatsu in 2006.

Spike60 posted how Stihl became able to use the first generation Husky technology. :msp_smile:


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## Officer's Match (Sep 24, 2012)

If Spike is right, I would say Husky sold the wrong version based upon the delight my M-Tronic is to use. Easiest starting manually started internal combustion I've ever operated.


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## spike60 (Sep 24, 2012)

Termite said:


> I am a little surprised by the number of 441 owners have responded and the relatively few 576AT.
> I don't have much run time on my 576 but no problems yet.
> I like my 576AT. I need to contact Mastermind!



The low responces on the 576AT are due to the fact that the 372XT outsells it something like 10-1.


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## Officer's Match (Sep 24, 2012)

spike60 said:


> The low responces on the 576AT are due to the fact that the 372XT outsells it something like 10-1.



When you handle them in the showroom, that's easy to understand. The 372 feels lighter than the advertised weight difference vs the 576 in my hands. It's only in the cut that the 576AT's torque shows it's particular strength.


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## SawTroll (Sep 24, 2012)

spike60 said:


> The low responces on the 576AT are due to the fact that the 372XT outsells it something like 10-1.



That is very easy to imagine! :msp_biggrin:


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## tmarsh (Sep 24, 2012)

I've got 9 months on a 576AT. I use it for firewood - 10 tonnes so far this year - and mainly run a 24" bar with Stihl semi-chisel chain. I've run it back to back with a mate's 372XP and the 372 feels better in the hands without a doubt. But I didn't buy the saw to swing it around like a lightsaber - I bought it to bury up to the dogs in manna gum, blackwood, candlebark, peppermint and stringybark. And that's where the 576 really shines. *Much* more torque in the cut, and in difficult wood like the stringybark (which has long fibers in the bark that can really clog up your bar and stall the saw) it just keeps on cutting - long past where the similarly set up 372 was calling it quits. 

It starts effortlessly, uses less fuel than my old 455 Rancher, and is probably the smoothest saw I've ever used. It hasn't missed a beat in that time. Oh, and it's a doddle to maintain. Aside from the price, no complaints from me.


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## Termite (Sep 24, 2012)

spike60 said:


> The low responces on the 576AT are due to the fact that the 372XT outsells it something like 10-1.



Really, and the Stihl460 does it out sell the 441? I wonder?


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## Termite (Sep 24, 2012)

"it's a doddle to maintain"

What is a doddle?


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## Arbonaut (Sep 24, 2012)

Stihlman441 said:


> I have not found this at all,my ported 441C will get 30 to 35 min per tank,stock 460 20 to 25 mins per tank,ported 660 about 5 mins lol.
> The other ported 441C i just got gets about 25 to 30 mins per tank.



I'll do some timed cutting, Stihlman. 660's and 044's and 441's flat out. I was only estimating. I usually got to drag me own brush. But I'll do some flat out and see how the gas usage is. It is so hard to tell. Winding up the Stihls takes me to the happy place...where there is no such thang as, "Time."


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## Anthony_Va. (Sep 24, 2012)

Stihlman441 said:


> I have not found this at all,my ported 441C will get 30 to 35 min per tank,stock 460 20 to 25 mins per tank,ported 660 about 5 mins lol.
> The other ported 441C i just got gets about 25 to 30 mins per tank.



Im with you. My 441C seems to make a tank last longer than the boss's 290 Stihls. I can easily outlast my ported XPW almost 2 to 1.


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## TommySaw (Sep 24, 2012)

Steeltech said:


> The Komatsu corporation holds the patent on what Stihl calls the Stratified scavenging 2-stroke engine design and what husky calls X-Torque. Both Stihl and Husky have made enough changes to the original patent that they were able utilize the technology? With Husky, this process was made a little easier as their parent company (Electrolux) purchased the Komatsu Corporation a few years back. With respect to auto-tune or M-Tronic, this design has been used for decades in the bike/marine/automotive industry and did not require "permission" or "purchase"



:msp_rolleyes::msp_thumbdn:


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## Mountainman6288 (Sep 24, 2012)

SawTroll said:


> There really was no other options left, was there? :msp_biggrin:



As a avid snowmobiler, cant tell you how much reading and research I looked at for 2 cycle snowmobile engines. From the basic carb, to the SDI, and now DI fuel injecftion systems. Rotax of Austria provides engines for Doo. They have the most advaced Direct inject engines. The technology, IIRC< was from Orbital, and was being developed with some Marine engine companies. There was also FIGHT, and another. Well, companoies ran out of research money, got gobbled up by bigger fish, and now we have the E-Tec snowmobile enhgines, and also E-tec EVINRUDE 

I can see this technology being applied to small *** in the future. Just like in snowmobiles, turning 9K, timing is the issue , and they use dual injectors to " Keep Up ". Interesed to see that Stihl injected saw, to see how its coming along. Should be cartching up to the sled technology someday.


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## Arbonaut (Sep 24, 2012)

Mountain6288 said:


> As a avid snowmobiler, cant tell you how much reading and research I looked at for 2 cycle snowmobile engines. From the basic carb, to the SDI, and now DI fuel injecftion systems. *Rotax of Austria *provides engines for Doo. They have the most advaced Direct inject engines. The technology, IIRC< was from Orbital, and was being developed with some Marine engine companies. There was also FIGHT, and another. Well, companoies ran out of research money, got gobbled up by bigger fish, and now we have the E-Tec snowmobile enhgines, and also E-tec EVINRUDE
> 
> I can see this technology being applied to small *** in the future. Just like in snowmobiles, turning 9K, timing is the issue , and they use dual injectors to " Keep Up ". Interesed to see that Stihl injected saw, to see how its coming along. Should be cartching up to the sled technology someday.



Rotax...ahhh that one was like a breath of fresh air. Rotax, yes. Just mentioning that got your rep meter lit up, Buddy.


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## Stihlman441 (Sep 24, 2012)

Ronald Reagan said:


> I'll do some timed cutting, Stihlman. 660's and 044's and 441's flat out. I was only estimating. I usually got to drag me own brush. But I'll do some flat out and see how the gas usage is. It is so hard to tell. Winding up the Stihls takes me to the happy place...where there is no such thang as, "Time."



My times are based on blocking only,start the saw block up non stop until the tank is empty.


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## Stihlman441 (Sep 24, 2012)

Termite said:


> Really, and the Stihl460 does it out sell the 441? I wonder?



Most people are old school and dont like change,most fallers get 460s because thats what they know and trust,but its funny how most of the cars we use are fuel injected andor turbo ed these days but thats all good.Its a bit like internet,I phones we all have um.:msp_smile:


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## Mountainman6288 (Sep 24, 2012)

Ronald Reagan said:


> Rotax...ahhh that one was like a breath of fresh air. Rotax, yes. Just mentioning that got your rep meter lit up, Buddy.




So people around here like ROTAX? Ski-Doo all the way for me !


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## Chris-PA (Sep 25, 2012)

The only advantage of injection would be if you could do direct cylinder injection - that would be huge on a 2-stroke, but you have to lube the crank and you need high pressures. All doable, but I suspect the size, weight and cost of the equipment to do it would be a problem on a hand held chainsaw. Keep in mind that strato combined with a feedback fuel system is already a radical advance compared to non-strato engines with carbs that can't hold a constant fuel/air mixture, and it's only now getting out there. At some point you get to diminishing returns.


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## Arbonaut (Sep 25, 2012)

Stihlman441 said:


> My times are based on blocking only,start the saw block up non stop until the tank is empty.



I just put together a 441. I'll give it a try in about five tanks, Stihlman. I subscribed to your YouTube channel, Man. Killer Stuff.



Mountain6288 said:


> So people around here like ROTAX? Ski-Doo all the way for me !



Yup. Austrian Two Stroke stuff. They do motocross bikes, too. I think some one off Can-Ams came with Rotax. I bet Officer's Match knows.


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## SawTroll (Sep 25, 2012)

WoodHeatWarrior said:


> The only advantage of injection would be if you could do direct cylinder injection - that would be huge on a 2-stroke, but you have to lube the crank and you need high pressures. All doable, but I suspect the size, weight and cost of the equipment to do it would be a problem on a hand held chainsaw. Keep in mind that strato combined with a feedback fuel system is already a radical advance compared to non-strato engines with carbs that can't hold a constant fuel/air mixture, and it's only now getting out there. At some point you get to diminishing returns.



Most likely true, so any attept to make fuel injected saws would likely end the same way as Dolmars attempt to make four-cycle ones = down the drains....


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## SawTroll (Sep 25, 2012)

Mountain6288 said:


> As a avid snowmobiler, cant tell you how much reading and research I looked at for 2 cycle snowmobile engines. From the basic carb, to the SDI, and now DI fuel injecftion systems. Rotax of Austria provides engines for Doo. They have the most advaced Direct inject engines. The technology, IIRC< was from Orbital, .....



A few pounds of weight doesn't matter much on a snowmobile, but it surely will on a chainsaw!


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## hamish (Sep 25, 2012)

Ronald Reagan said:


> Yup. Austrian Two Stroke stuff. They do motocross bikes, too. I think some one off Can-Ams came with Rotax. I bet Officer's Match knows.



Darn near all Can-Ams had a Rotax engine, geesh taxed trying to think of the models that didn't back in the day.

Jumped my first tractor on a TNT125.........things that happen when you and your bike encounter a tractor at the strangest time.


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## TommySaw (Sep 25, 2012)

SawTroll said:


> Most likely true, so any attept to make fuel injected saws would likely end the same way as Dolmars attempt to make four-cycle ones = down the drains....



stihl has a fuel injected saw out right now, the TS500i chop saw, very good trottle response for a chop saw


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## SawTroll (Sep 26, 2012)

TommySaw said:


> stihl has a fuel injected saw out right now, the TS500i chop saw, very good trottle response for a chop saw



Well, the weight doesn't matter as much on a chop saw - but I will look it up.


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## Anthony_Va. (Sep 26, 2012)

hamish said:


> Darn near all Can-Ams had a Rotax engine, geesh taxed trying to think of the models that didn't back in the day.
> 
> Jumped my first tractor on a TNT125.........things that happen when you and your bike encounter a tractor at the strangest time.



They are awesome ATVs too. All of the newer ones I've seen have Rotax engines. The 650s will absolutely smoke a 750 Suzuki or Kawasaki ATV.


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## rullywowr (Sep 26, 2012)

Back to the OP's question: I have the 550XP and have had no issues other than it not idling well during the first couple tanks. I have about 12-15 tanks through it now and it cuts awesome. Keep the chain sharp, don't pinch the bar, and this little guy just keeps wanting more. I use it for firewood gathering, limbing, and bucking rounds to put in the splitter. Here is it on my latest adventure...we got a "boatload" of firewood....







View attachment 254340


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## spike60 (Sep 26, 2012)

Firewood by the boatload! Haven't seen that one yet. Very cool!


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## Mountainman6288 (Sep 26, 2012)

Firewood by the Boatload 

What kind of bait do you use ?


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## Officer's Match (Sep 26, 2012)

Mountain6288 said:


> Firewood by the Boatload
> 
> What kind of bait do you use ?



Why bologna of course. :msp_wink:


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## sachsmo (Sep 26, 2012)




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## rullywowr (Sep 26, 2012)

For bait I used 93 octane Sunoco with some Husqvarna XP and a full chisel 21 LPX 72 link.
:yoyo:


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## SawTroll (Sep 26, 2012)

rullywowr said:


> For bait I used 93 octane Sunoco with some Husqvarna XP and a full chisel 21 *LPX* 72 link.
> :yoyo:



Best .325 chain out there, and the right one on that saw! :msp_thumbup:


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## Hustihler (Nov 2, 2012)

I'm the OP and I just wanted to update the status of this thread. My 550xp and 562xp are still at the dealer and we've been in contact on a weekly basis, they called me yesterday to inform me that my 550xp is repaired and that Husqvarna is sending me a brand new updated replacement 562xp next week. I'm headed to the dealer tomorrow to get more details and I'll update this thread as I get more info. It's been long time without my saws, but I'm glad Husqvarna and my dealer are standing behind their products.


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## SCHallenger (Nov 2, 2012)

*auto tune & m-tronic*

Subscribed!


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## epicklein22 (Nov 3, 2012)

Bought my dealers 562xp demo last Monday. Wasn't expecting to own one of these so far, but the price was good. He told me this is one of the best running 562's he has sold. Been solid so far doing storm damage and it's not afraid of heights either.:hmm3grin2orange:


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## mrnecsteve (Nov 3, 2012)

rullywowr said:


> Back to the OP's question: I have the 550XP and have had no issues other than it not idling well during the first couple tanks. I have about 12-15 tanks through it now and it cuts awesome. Keep the chain sharp, don't pinch the bar, and this little guy just keeps wanting more. I use it for firewood gathering, limbing, and bucking rounds to put in the splitter. Here is it on my latest adventure...we got a "boatload" of firewood....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I used to go camping next to a river with my 10 foot john boat. I would be hard pressed to find a single branch of firwood at the campground....so I would go scavenging a couple miles downriver.
One day , I loaded it up full of driftwood.There was no place left to sit ,except at the spot next to the motor
....which ran out of gas.
It took three hours to row back, after moveing all the wood off the center seat.


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## Hustihler (Nov 4, 2012)

Well I did make it to the dealer Saturday, but I didn't learn much. They run a "skeleton crew" on Saturdays and their head tech., whom I normally deal with was not there. I'll find out more next week when he returns. I'll probably wait to catch him when I go to pick-up my new 562xp next week. I'll post again when this all gets sorted out.


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## Slamm (Nov 4, 2012)

Have you seriously been without your Husky for about 1.5 months?

What is the deal with Husky and taking so long to figure out whether a saw is FUBAR'd or not there is a logger Mingo that had a 576AT and it took him forever to get it working .......... can't remember it IS working or not, but it was in the shop several times.

Amazing,

Sam


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## Hustihler (Nov 4, 2012)

Slamm said:


> Have you seriously been without your Husky for about 1.5 months?
> 
> What is the deal with Husky and taking so long to figure out whether a saw is FUBAR'd or not there is a logger Mingo that had a 576AT and it took him forever to get it working .......... can't remember it IS working or not, but it was in the shop several times.
> 
> ...



Yes it's been that long. When I did put the saws in the shop I printed out and showed them the service bulletins that were posted on this site about the 562xp(mine is an early edition 2011 saw), and asked if I had any future problems with when my saw was out of warranty would they repair under warranty. My dealer stated they would, but they decided to go ahead and replace all parts pertaining to the service bulletins while they were repairing the saw for the hot/warm start issue. According to my dealer, my delay has been waiting on these parts, in particular the upgraded fuel line which wasn't going to be in stock till the end of November. So my dealer talked Husky into just replacing the saw with an updated model since I've been waiting so long. Several factors also have made helped me be patient so far: 1) I'm not a professional and don't need the use of a saw to make my living(although I heat the house with wood and I'm starting to get into the firewood business this year on a small scale), 2) I cut alot of wood this summer and was pretty stocked up from last year, and 3) I have a Stihl 261 and Husky 346xp to help me "make do", lol! I also made my dealer aware that I wanted my saws fixed right the first time and if that meant it should take a little longer then so be it(although to be honest I didn't think it would be this long); but hey at least I'm getting a new saw out of it, just trying to stay positive.


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## Anthony_Va. (Nov 5, 2012)

Thats messed up. I hear the Husky AT in the 562/550 is a second generation, which is supposed to be better? The M-tron I've heard is 1st gen and supposed to be inferior. 

Funny thing is, my 441C starts on the first pull. Cold, warm, hot, whatever. It's wild to pull a saw out of your truck in the morning, pull it one time and it comes right to life. It's the only saw I've ever owned that will start cold on the first pull.


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## Hustihler (Nov 9, 2012)

Well I finally got some resolution. I picked her up and signed the new warranty paperwork Wednesday. New 2012 model 562xp. I'm still waiting on parts for my 550xp, evidently Husqvarna sent the wrong parts to my dealer. The tech who's been servicing my 550xp is on vacation till next week, so hopefully I'll talk to him then and get a status update, I'll post more when I find out more.View attachment 261515
View attachment 261516
View attachment 261517
View attachment 261518
View attachment 261519


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## Joe Kidd (Nov 9, 2012)

Hustihler said:


> Well I finally got some resolution. I picked her up and signed the new warranty paperwork Wednesday. New 2012 model 562xp. I'm still waiting on parts for my 550xp, evidently Husqvarna sent the wrong parts to my dealer. The tech who's been servicing my 550xp is on vacation till next week, so hopefully I'll talk to him then and get a status update, I'll post more when I find out more.View attachment 261515
> View attachment 261516
> View attachment 261517
> View attachment 261518
> View attachment 261519



Great. I looked for a 2012 model 562 but no success. My dealer had nine in three different locations. I settled for a 52nd week 2011.


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## Hustihler (Nov 9, 2012)

Joe Kidd said:


> Great. I looked for a 2012 model 562 but no success. My dealer had nine in three different locations. I settled for a 52nd week 2011.



I got lucky I guess, I did review the service bulletins and my serial # covers some of the updates, but falls outside the fuel line and carb updates(I did visually verify that it had the "older" EL44 carb). As long as the saw runs, starts, and restarts properly its not a big deal. I've seen quite a few posters with 2011 models that don't have any issues at all. I just can't wait to cut some wood with it, I don't think I'll get a chance to get into the woods until next week.


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## Joe Kidd (Nov 9, 2012)

Hustihler said:


> I got lucky I guess, I did review the service bulletins and my serial # covers some of the updates, but falls outside the fuel line and carb updates(I did visually verify that it had the "older" EL44 carb). As long as the saw runs, starts, and restarts properly its not a big deal. I've seen quite a few posters with 2011 models that don't have any issues at all. I just can't wait to cut some wood with it, I don't think I'll get a chance to get into the woods until next week.



Can those bulletins be viewed online?


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## Hustihler (Nov 9, 2012)

Joe Kidd said:


> Can those bulletins be viewed online?



Just do a search for service bulletins, I actually printed them out and took them with me to my dealer; I think it's like 5 different bulletins but they're all in the same thread.


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## ri chevy (Nov 13, 2012)

Saw Pics
http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/208570-2.htm#post3944985

TSB's
http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/208570-2.htm#post3944989


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## Hustihler (Nov 28, 2012)

Well I got my 550xp out of the shop yesterday afternoon. The tech who was working on my saw wasn't in yesterday, but I believe he replaced the carb and coil. I hope to try it out in some oak next week, I'll try to post with an update about how it and the 562xp run since coming out of the shop/replacement. Here's some pics.View attachment 264608
View attachment 264609


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## H 2 H (Nov 29, 2012)

Hustihler said:


> Well I got my 550xp out of the shop yesterday afternoon. The tech who was working on my saw wasn't in yesterday, but I believe he replaced the carb and coil. I hope to try it out in some oak next week, I'll try to post with an update about how it and the 562xp run since coming out of the shop/replacement. Here's some pics.View attachment 264608
> View attachment 264609



How much time did it spend in the shop


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## SawTroll (Nov 29, 2012)

Anthony_Va. said:


> Thats messed up. I hear the Husky AT in the 562/550 is a second generation, which is supposed to be better? The M-tron I've heard is 1st gen and supposed to be inferior.
> 
> Funny thing is, my 441C starts on the first pull. Cold, warm, hot, whatever. It's wild to pull a saw out of your truck in the morning, pull it one time and it comes right to life. It's the only saw I've ever owned that will start cold on the first pull.



Well, none of us really have any idea what actually happened here - but it is a fact that some early carbs failed - however, I have seen no evidence that the Autotune itself failed?


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## Hustihler (Nov 29, 2012)

H 2 H said:


> How much time did it spend in the shop



I put them in the shop late August/early September.


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## Hustihler (Nov 29, 2012)

SawTroll said:


> Well, none of us really have any idea what actually happened here - but it is a fact that some early carbs failed - however, I have seen no evidence that the Autotune itself failed?



I don't think the auto-tune has anything to do with it either. Like I said I'm pretty sure they just replaced the coil and the carb.


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## Stihlman441 (Nov 29, 2012)

Hang on let me get this correct,your saw has been in the shop (Husky dealer) for over two months getting repaired ?.
If i took my Stihl saw to get repaired at a Stihl dealership i would be jumping up and down after a week.


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## CATDIESEL (Nov 29, 2012)

Stihlman441 said:


> Hang on let me get this correct,your saw has been in the shop (Husky dealer) for over two months getting repaired ?.
> If i took my Stihl saw to get repaired at a Stihl dealership i would be jumping up and down after a week.


this is because a stihl would not be @ the dealer for 2 months. stihl actually tests saws before putting them on the market. how many threads on here have you read where a 261 or a 441 m-tronic have failed or had issues??? anyone??? not too many, because stihl doesn't put junk out on the market just to say they had it there first. say what you will, but sales numbers and marketshare, as well as build quality speak for themselves. i do own both brands btw.:msp_biggrin:


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## SawTroll (Nov 29, 2012)

Too many fools and worse here, I totally lost interest....


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## Hustihler (Nov 29, 2012)

CATDIESEL said:


> this is because a stihl would not be @ the dealer for 2 months. stihl actually tests saws before putting them on the market. how many threads on here have you read where a 261 or a 441 m-tronic have failed or had issues??? anyone??? not too many, because stihl doesn't put junk out on the market just to say they had it there first. say what you will, but sales numbers and marketshare, as well as build quality speak for themselves. i do own both brands btw.:msp_biggrin:



Do you own a 550xp or a 562xp? If so, what sort of problems are you having that make all these saws junk?


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## CATDIESEL (Nov 29, 2012)

I have some 346 xp's , and they been decent saws, but not near as reliable or well built as 026/ms260/ms261. i never said anything of them be junk, just that the quality and reliability is not there. as far as fools go, the biggest one here posts a bunch of pure BS here daily, and it is quite appearent that talks about saws way more than using them............:cool2:


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## sunfish (Nov 29, 2012)

Husky xp saws have done me very well for many years!

Although I know Stihl makes good saws, there's no current Stihl models that I'd want to own right now.


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## hamish (Nov 29, 2012)

The AT system rarely fails, would have been a great asset to this thread if the error codes were known. 

Service bulletins are bulletins, just a heads up for those that work on the related product, its not a warranty issue unless the affected parts falls into the parameters. Its not a rocket ship its a chainsaw, AT and MT makes many forget the basics, and think aremegeddon computers.

At and MT saws are near self preserving, and will do near the impossible to save and compensate for another failed component on the saw, geesh no AT systems just let it toast itself within seconds to minutes.

The technical ability of the shop is the primary question, not the product. As we all know the 346XP and 026/MS260 are the biggest pieces of crap saws ever made.


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## Hustihler (Nov 29, 2012)

CATDIESEL said:


> I have some *346 xp's *, and they been decent saws, but not near as reliable or well built as 026/ms260/ms261. i never said anything of them be junk, just that the quality and reliability is not there. as far as fools go, the biggest one here posts a bunch of pure BS here daily, and it is quite appearent that talks about saws way more than using them............:cool2:



"this is because a stihl would not be @ the dealer for 2 months. stihl actually tests saws before putting them on the market. how many threads on here have you read where a 261 or a 441 m-tronic have failed or had issues??? anyone??? not too many, because stihl doesn't put* junk *out on the market just to say they had it there first. say what you will, but sales numbers and marketshare, as well as build quality speak for themselves. i do own both brands btw."

Since you don't own a 562xp or a 550xp, but you do own some 346xp's that are not reliable, what problems did you have with your 346xp's that makes them so unreliable' and if they are so unreliable why do you have more than one? You did in fact call these saws JUNK, I highligted it for you, your words not mine. I get it, I really do, you like Stihl more than Husqvarna and that's ok, this would be a pretty boring site if everyone liked the same saws, but what I don't like is someone bashing products(550xp and 562xp) they've never used and passing that along as the gospel. If you try brand B or brand C and go back to brand A that's ok, because you tried it and it didn't fit your specific needs, but how can you pass judgment on something you've never even used and even go so far as bash the whole brand, doesn't make any sense to me.


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## Hermann (Nov 29, 2012)

hamish said:


> At and MT saws are near self preserving, and will do near the impossible to save and compensate for another failed component on the saw, geesh no AT systems just let it toast itself within seconds to minutes.



Why electronic tuning is the future, and while I probably won't buy another chainsaw without it, especially with ethanol fuel..


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## Hustihler (Nov 29, 2012)

Stihlman441 said:


> Hang on let me get this correct,your saw has been in the shop (Husky dealer) for over two months getting repaired ?.
> If i took my Stihl saw to get repaired at a Stihl dealership i would be jumping up and down after a week.



I agree, over 2 months is a very long time to wait on anything, nonetheless chainsaw repairs, but I want to clarify a few things about my experience with my dealer. One thing I learned in my own transactions and from others on AS, is that everyone has different experiences with their different dealers. I'll give you a couple of examples that I've encountered. When I worked for my buddy Brian's Lumber/custom funiture company he bought a brand spanking new Stihl 660 from his dealer, 2 days later the chain tensioner broke, he took it in to the dealer and they wouldn't cover it under warranty(they claimed he was abusing the saw) and charged him $6 for the part that he had to install himself; you would think that on a purchase of a $1000 + tax, they could at least throw in a $6 part. At one of my local Stihl dealers I purchased a new FS 90 weedeater several years ago and about a month later I was having loss of power issues, so I took it in for warranty repair. This dealer blamed me for running ethanol fuel(which I don't, I have 2 gas stations within 5 minutes of my house that sell non-ethanol, one has 87 octane and the other sells 93 octane non-ethanol), they then blamed me for not running Stihl mix(another lie I was using the orange bottle Stihl oil, that I bought from them, mixed at 50:1), and finally blamed me for adjusting the carb(I never even touched the carb). The problem ended up being carbon build-up and they informed me to start using Stihl ultra in conjunction with their "ingenious 4-mix" engines. They tried to charge me for cleaning the spark arrestor and re-tuning the carb, I quickly reminded them that the unit was only a month old, under warranty, and that 3 generations of my family had been purchasing from said business, they finally saw it my way and no charge. It's not just Stihl dealers that I've had bad experiences with either, I once had a Husky dealer refuse to order me a 346xp even though I had cash in hand and even offered to pay up front before they ordered the saw. I have also heard countless horror stories of members on this very sight who were refused warranty service, or their dealer blamed them, or even had to contact corporate to get any resolution to their issues.
Now back to my dealer, when I first put my 562xp and 550xp into the shop they specifically asked me how soon did I need them back(I don't depend on my saws to make a living, to their credit, they did offer me a loaner saw if I needed it), my reply was I just want them fixed right the first time, and that I was caught up on my firewood cutting and that I owned a 346xp and Stihl 261 as back-ups(this same dealer sold me those 2 saws as well). Did I expect my dealer to take over 2 months to repair/replace my saws? The answer to that question is no, but I did get a brand new 2012 replacement 562xp and the 550xp was repaired(I'll get to test both saws out next week hopefully and update this thread accordingly), they also told me when I picked them up the other day that if I did have anymore issues with my 550xp, that they would replace that saw with a new one as well. Neither Husqvarna nor my dealer questioned me about my fuel mix, they didn't treat me like an idiot and ask "did I know how to properly start and restart my saw", all they did was ask me what was wrong and guaranteed they'd fix it to my satisfaction. They never blamed me once, never asked me to come out of my own pocket for repairs or service, and I never had to "call corporate" or threaten a lawsuit. All they did was ask me to give them some time to sort things out and wait.


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## SawTroll (Nov 29, 2012)

CATDIESEL said:


> I have some 346 xp's , and they been decent saws, but not near as reliable or well built as 026/ms260/ms261. i never said anything of them be junk, just that the quality and reliability is not there. as far as fools go, the biggest one here posts a bunch of pure BS here daily, and it is quite appearent that talks about saws way more than using them............:cool2:



There used to be a lot more problems with the MS260 (often carb or choke arrangement related) than there ever was with the 346xp - that one actually have been one of the more "bullet-proof" chainsaw models ever made. I don't really know about the 261 - it is a bit early....


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## Hustihler (Dec 7, 2012)

Well earlier this week, I finally got a chance to run my saws for the first time since they came out of the shop. They(550xp and 562xp) ran and started(hot and cold) perfectly. Me and my father cut some pin oak laps for firewood, and bucked up a load of sawmill logs(poplar) for my Uncle. Both saws got a pretty good workout and both ran great all day long. My dealer and Husqvarna did a dynamite job of replacing/repairing my saws. Both are now very, very easy starting cold(2 pulls on choke and 1 pull choke off), warm , or hot(1 pull). My father(longtime diehard Stihl guy) kept commenting on how smooth and powerful the 562xp was. He even compared it to the the Stihl 440 that he fussed at me for selling. My father has no idea about auto tune, to him saws are just tools, so I thought his comments were pretty cool. My favorite quote of the day was also from my father, he asked me at the end of the day "Did you bring the 261(Stihl) with us today? ", we did and it never left the bed of my truck.

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## Patrus Monk (Aug 7, 2013)

*550xp G AT under the lens*

Spanking new 550 xpG auto tune came into my possession a few weeks ago. summer 2013. The saw had obvious issues as when I had it positioned starter side up, the engine would always bog and invariably die altogether (starved). When I cracked open the gas cap it was like getting too close to a black hole. Air rushed into the vacuum with a very audible (over the sound of the idling motorhead in my left hand) whooosssh. 

The saw was under warrantly if course and the great guys at the sw shop tried to get me a new one from Husqvarna. I have only bought pro saws since the days BEFORE "XP" ever came around. I bought the first "XP"s available, decades ago. But know, Husqvarna would only pay for a major heart operation !

The saw had to be split and the mechanic, a good one, said it was challenging repair. The venting issue was reported to my mechanic and he immediately noticed the "breathing problem". There was a two-issue call back on that very saw! Ignition module and tank venting system.

Anyway, after this frustration is getting further ad further behind me let me tell you all what I think of the lil Prince now! 

That 550XPGAT is the fastest saw I've ever had, and I have had plenty my friends. I own no wood stove but I have worked professionally with a saw over a span of 35 years now. A tad more. I'm not blowing any experience trumpet here, I am "underlining" the point that this is one friggin fast saw! And ergo-dynamic too. The gas level sight glass is cool as long as it does not get punched out limbing tress.

The hot start issues people talk about also plagued me but it seems to be one of the quirks of the hot saw and if you do the right procedure, there is seldom an issue: When hotstarting, pull out choke then gently place down one "click" to engage half-throttle (and turn off choke). It is such a small motor that I seldom decompress cylinder before pull start -- it is a "hot" start scenario, afterall. 

It took awhile but I am growing to really really enjoy this saw. I'm felling, bucking and limbing softwood mostly, and mostly under 14inch DBH. There are a few idiosyncrasies to discover. As we get to know each other the Prince and I are becoming a formidable forestry duo! So after a bit of a rocky start, it's one-point-nine thumbs up.

P Monk

550xpGAT
OE372xp
576xpG non-auto
NE346xp
180 S project saw


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## jdlbz (Aug 8, 2013)

Anthony_Va. said:


> They are awesome ATVs too. All of the newer ones I've seen have Rotax engines. The 650s will absolutely smoke a 750 Suzuki or Kawasaki ATV.



For longevity ill take that suzuki lol rotax just dont last long in the atv world.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2


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## Inter674 (Aug 16, 2013)

I have detailed my issues with a 576 xp at elsewhere on this site but suffice to say the saw failed after 12 month, the dealer did not want to know, they had no capacity to diagnose nor repair the AT unit and quoted me 600 dollars for the parts - which they would not guarantee would fix it. I bought a new conventional carb and valve housing assembly from the US - Choo Choo Part for 100 bucks delivered and swapped out the valve housing. This fixed the problem for 30 bucks or so and I have a spare none AT carby to swap in if/when it fails again.

After years of owning trouble free Stihls this is the first and last time with Husky - mainly because of the stealer's attiude and lack of back up for this type of saw. I am pro tech and have worked on electronics for 30 years, but clearly the AT units are somewhat undertested and at least here in Aus, they are very under supported in the field. 

PS the dealer basically told me that under warranty they swap the trouble saw for a new one and dump the problem saw in the skip because it is not worth the trouble and effort to fix a mystery e. problem when the saw only owes them 800 bucks or so - which Husky Aus will cover anyway. Outside warranty, well that is clearly a different problem and best then to make the customer go away quietely


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## redninja (Sep 8, 2014)

It has been our experience that Auto Tune DOES NOT WORK AT ALTITUDE. This is a 455 Rancher with Auto Tune. We are just ordinary people who heat with wood. We've had the saw for about a year now, and it has cut ZERO truckloads of wood. We cut at 9,000 - 10,0000 feet or so. The saw will not run. I will spare you all the details. The saw has been back to the dealer numerous times, and the mechanics there have not been helpful. Each time they keep the saw for around a month, then when we try it again, nothing has changed; it still won't run. The only thing they ever said they actually did to it was run a couple of tankfuls of gas through it. It is in the shop right now. So we've been using our 20-year-old Stihl to cut wood. We had it overhauled (or whatever it is they do to old, ailing saws), and got it back from the Stihl dealer in about a week. It is running fine......So what recourse do we have? Husqvarna doesn't seem to have a customer service department on the website; just a forum to ask questions. The only suggestion we got there was to put in a new carb.....on a brand new saw. We are not mechanics! So, I will do more I-net browsing......Oh, I forgot to add....the dealership is at about 6900' elevation, and the saw runs fine there. So here we are burning truck fuel and hours of our time going up into the mountains just to have it fail....we've come home with an empty truck several times, but now we know better, and take the Stihl with us.


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## hamish (Sep 8, 2014)

redninja said:


> It has been our experience that Auto Tune DOES NOT WORK AT ALTITUDE. This is a 455 Rancher with Auto Tune. We are just ordinary people who heat with wood. We've had the saw for about a year now, and it has cut ZERO truckloads of wood. We cut at 9,000 - 10,0000 feet or so. The saw will not run. I will spare you all the details. The saw has been back to the dealer numerous times, and the mechanics there seem to be total bozos. Each time they keep the saw for around a month, then when we try it again, nothing has changed; it still won't run. The only thing they ever said they actually did to it was run a couple of tankfuls of gas through it. It is in the shop right now. So we've been using our 20-year-old Stihl to cut wood. We had it overhauled (or whatever it is they do to old, ailing saws), and got it back from the Stihl dealer in about a week. It is running fine......So what recourse do we have? Husqvarna doesn't seem to have a customer service department on the website; just a forum to ask questions. The only suggestion we got there was to put in a new carb.....on a brand new saw. We are not mechanics! So, I will do more I-net browsing......Oh, I forgot to add....the dealership is at about 6900' elevation, and the saw runs fine there. So here we are burning truck fuel and hours of our time going up into the mountains just to have it fail....we've come home with an empty truck several times, but now we know better, and take the Stihl with us.
> Ha Ha, I just finished reading all the above posts, and, yes the dealer did treat us like idiots, asking if we were using the correct fuel, following the starting procedures, etc. Each and every time they ask this.


 
What colour if the air filter on your 455AT?


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## Section VIII (Sep 8, 2014)

Wow...opcorn:


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## Andyshine77 (Sep 8, 2014)

redninja if you want advice, you're going to have to give us a little more info than, it doesn't work. So the saw doesn't start at all, won't idle or accelerate? 99% of the time when someone comes to me saying my saw won't run/start, it's flooded beyond belief. It's east to miss that first pop with some of these quiet newer saws.


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## SCHallenger (Sep 8, 2014)

Andyshine77 said:


> redninja if you want advice, you're going to have to give us a little more info than, it doesn't work. So the saw doesn't start at all, won't idle or accelerate? 99% of the time when someone comes to me saying my saw won't run/start, it's flooded beyond belief. It's east to miss that first pop with some of these quiet newer saws.



I think what Hamish is getting at is 455 is not autotune! AT is designated by 500 series, is it not?


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## Andyshine77 (Sep 8, 2014)

The 455 does have the AT option. I', guessing the air filter color may indicate weather the saw has AT, or maybe the production run.


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## redninja (Sep 8, 2014)

OK, here goes...The 455 Rancher we have does have Auto Tune. We are using the fancy pre-mixed fuel, and following the starting procedures. The saw may start up easily, or may take several pulls. Once it's running, we are told by the dealer to run it at high RPM's for 2-3 minutes. HA...problem is, as soon as we touch the throttle, it dies. Will not run. Start up again, and it does the same thing, over and over. This is at 9000' and above. Take it to the shop, which is at around 6900', and it runs fine. We precisely explain the problem to them, and leave it there. We go pick it up, and are told "just run it". Well, OK. Except when we get back in the woods, the same exact thing happens. Back to dealer...they say they will run a couple tankfuls of gas through it. We pick it up and go to the woods again, and same exact thing happens. Back to the dealer...this happened like 5 times. All they tell us is "just run it"; they have never given any better advice. Last time we picked it up, before going to the woods, we used it at home (6800') for around 1/2 hour, then shut it off for around 20 minutes. After that, it absolutely positively would not start back up. Back to the dealer....Each time they keep it for several weeks or a month, and when we pick it up all they say is....you guessed it, "Just run it". So not only is it aggravating to have the saw not work, but it is aggravating that the dealer keeps it for weeks at a time, then all they do is tell us what good saws they are. They have never told us what the problem is, or what we might do to correct it...all they say is, ....(I'm not going to say it again). We are pretty sick of that dealer. In contrast, when we took our tired old (20 years) Stihl to a different dealer; they fixed it up in one week, and it runs like a top, at all altitudes. We are not mechanics (I dearly wish I was; trying to work on the dirt bikes, learning little by little) and thought by buying a new saw we would have something that would work without having to fool around with it. We've been cutting firewood for the last 17 years, all with the Stihl. When we were shopping for the new saw at the dealer (which has both Husqvarna and Stihl), the 455 was "on sale", and we thought the Auto Tune sounded pretty good.......


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## Officer's Match (Sep 8, 2014)

Not much help here, but I'd say get a 441 M-Tronic. Mine has been capably disassembling trees for several years now. And it seems to like it in an evil sort of way.


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## RedFir Down (Sep 9, 2014)

redninja,
Tell us about how you start and "warm" the saw up.
Once you initially start the saw do you leave it on high idle for 15-20 seconds or so before you start pulling the trigger? The saw needs a second to find "where its at".
I just cut 2+ cord the other day with my 562 (autotune) @ about 9000ft. with zero issues. The prior elevation it ran was 2200ft. Both my 550 and 562 act this same way... zero issues with elevation change. FWIW


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## redninja (Sep 9, 2014)

RedFir Down said:


> redninja,
> Tell us about how you start and "warm" the saw up.
> Once you initially start the saw do you leave it on high idle for 15-20 seconds or so before you start pulling the trigger? The saw needs a second to find "where its at".
> I just cut 2+ cord the other day with my 562 (autotune) @ about 9000ft. with zero issues. The prior elevation it ran was 2200ft. Both my 550 and 562 act this same way... zero issues with elevation change. FWIW


AHA....you may be on to something......my husband is the one who actually runs the saw, and I asked him this question......well, he doesn't remember exactly....I think he probably pulls the trigger right away thinking the saw will die out if he doesn't get it revved up right away.....when we get it back from the dealer, we will go back out into the woods and specifically investigate this...thanks !


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## hamish (Sep 9, 2014)

Andyshine77 said:


> The 455 does have the AT option. I', guessing the air filter color may indicate weather the saw has AT, or maybe the production run.


 I was tossing out the air filter question as if the saw runs perfectly at 6000' and not at 9000' elevation, its an air density issue. Flocked filters can choke an engine in those conditions.
And yeas there is a 455AT.


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## Andyshine77 (Sep 10, 2014)

This person has posted the same thing on other forms, so I'm not sure I can take his posts seriously. Sounds like a kid trying to down Husky, or a former member with nothing better to do.


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## redninja (Sep 10, 2014)

Andyshine77 said:


> This person has posted the same thing on other forms, so I'm not sure I can take his posts seriously. Sounds like a kid trying to down Husky, or a former member with nothing better to do.



Thank you for the fine example of a serious case of reading comprehension deficiency......


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## redninja (Sep 29, 2014)

Well, progress is being made, hahaha. The saw has been in the shop for over a month, and we have heard exactly zero from them. So, we called them, and they said they have a new carb for the saw, but are waiting on a fuel line...hmmmm...I didn't think a fuel line would be such a tricky item to procure.....


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## angelo c (Sep 29, 2014)

spike60 said:


> If you Stihl guys knew who they _purchased_ their technology from, you'd be jumping off bridges all across the country. :smile2:


if you Husky flag waivers didn't have such big flags we could see clear across the country too....


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## SawTroll (Sep 29, 2014)

Andyshine77 said:


> This person has posted the same thing on other forms, so I'm not sure I can take his posts seriously. Sounds like a kid trying to down Husky, or a former member with nothing better to do.



Something like that!


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## redninja (Sep 29, 2014)

SawTroll said:


> Something like that!



Wow...looks like RCD (reference post 146) is running rampant. We'll make it easy for y'all. OP was asking people who ACTUALLY OWN auto tune saws to relate their experiences. I do, so I did. Problem ?


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## hseII (Sep 29, 2014)

redninja said:


> Wow...looks like RCD (reference post 147) is running rampant. We'll make it easy for y'all. OP was asking people who ACTUALLY OWN auto tune saws to relate their experiences. I do, so I did. Problem ?


I thought all you Hooskee Lobers were on the same team? 
What's with all this infighting, are y'all Republicans now or something?


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## redninja (Sep 29, 2014)

hseII said:


> I thought all you Hooskee Lobers were on the same team?
> What's with all this infighting, are y'all Republicans now or something?



We don't know which team we're on yet....so far, we have a working 20-year-old Stihl and a new, non-working Rancher 455....stay tuned....opcorn:


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## hseII (Sep 29, 2014)

redninja said:


> We don't know which team we're on yet....so far, we have a working 20-year-old Stihl and a new, non-working Rancher 455....stay tuned....opcorn:


I'm still trying to determine why you jumped brands after 20 years of reliable service; you remind me of an ex wife


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## redninja (Oct 5, 2014)

hseII said:


> I'm still trying to determine why you jumped brands after 20 years of reliable service; you remind me of an ex wife


This is just begging for a really clever answer......unfortunately I can't think of one right now. We bought it because it was "on sale", yadda, yadda, yadda, and when we bought 2 bottles of the pre-mixed fuel, we got a free 2 year warranty (good thing!). We thought the Auto Tune sounded like a good idea......


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## stihl sawing (Oct 5, 2014)

redninja said:


> AHA....you may be on to something......*my husband* is the one who actually runs the saw, and I asked him this question......well, he doesn't remember exactly....I think he probably pulls the trigger right away thinking the saw will die out if he doesn't get it revved up right away.....when we get it back from the dealer, we will go back out into the woods and specifically investigate this...thanks !


 I know who he is too.


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## redninja (Oct 6, 2014)

stihl sawing said:


> I know who he is too.


Meaning......?????.......


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## redninja (Oct 23, 2014)

Hey, Stihl Sawing........The ONLY way you could know who we are is if you work at the dealership where we bought the saw. If this is the case, maybe you should be doing more wrenching and less surfing. We still don't have the saw back after like 2 months......


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## Officer's Match (Oct 29, 2014)

I always knew my 441C-M had a mean personality, but I've began to think it's diabolical too, in cahoots with the emerald ash borers... it just loves that *THUMP* sound.


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## likesaws (Oct 29, 2014)

Stihlman441 said:


> My times are based on blocking only,start the saw block up non stop until the tank is empty.


I like running out of fuel means I have got to run my saws.


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## anymanusa (Dec 14, 2019)

2019 update.

I've had my 441cm for probably 10ish years and its more reliable than any other saw I've ever owned or used. I'm finally going to port the muffler.

I'm not a logger and I don't use the saw daily, but I used to be a firewooder. Now I just cut down the occasional tree.

I would buy another electronic saw in a heartbeat. Actually I did. I bought a fs460cm last year.


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