# I know you think I'm nuts but



## sgrib (Oct 27, 2006)

I have an cunning plan to trim my **@%&*# Washington pines. It involves the use of my bow fishing equipment and a 'rope chain saw.' Shoot the arrow , pull up the rope, saw, saw saw saw, run like blazes so the dead fronds don't fall on me. 

I'm insane, right?


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## moss (Oct 27, 2006)

Not insane just using a method that has more downside than up You'll have to shoot a line for every cut and isolate the branch (a bit of work per branch). It will be difficult to get the saw where you want it on the branch, too close to the trunk or too far out. Each time you make a cut it will rip the bark through the branch collar when the branch drops since you can't make an initial undercut. Your tree may end up a mess. Besides that have fun dodging branches!

That tool promises much more than it gives.
-moss


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## sgrib (Oct 27, 2006)

thanks Moss. I'm back on my meds now. :monkey: Your sound advice much appreciated.


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## Kneejerk Bombas (Oct 27, 2006)

I tried one of those rope saws once. It was comical. I never did finish a single cut. Towards the end, it got stuck, I pulled really hard and it broke.
To properly cut a limb, you need to make an undercut, then cut down from the top, or it will tear the wood right down the trunk. 
How are you going to make an undercut with a rope saw?


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## sgrib (Oct 27, 2006)

Mike Maas said:


> I tried one of those rope saws once. It was comical. I never did finish a single cut. Towards the end, it got stuck, I pulled really hard and it broke.
> To properly cut a limb, you need to make an undercut, then cut down from the top, or it will tear the wood right down the trunk.
> How are you going to make an undercut with a rope saw?



With helicopter, maybe?

Seriously though, thanks. 

What alternatives are there to sending a guy up the tree or in a cherrypicker? Horrible story in the LA Times yesterday about unlicensed trimmers falling to their deaths. I wouldn't want that on my conscience.


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## Sprig (Oct 27, 2006)

Just a curiousity Q here, how high up are these branches you're wanting to be getin' rid of? Why not just just leave 'em? Is it necessary (dangerous possibilities or wanting more light) or just a 'look' thing?


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## BlueRidgeMark (Oct 27, 2006)

Mike Maas said:


> To properly cut a limb, you need to make an undercut, then cut down from the top, or it will tear the wood right down the trunk.



Palm fronds don't need an undercut. Just whack 'em.


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## sgrib (Oct 27, 2006)

Sprig said:


> Just a curiousity Q here, how high up are these branches you're wanting to be getin' rid of? Why not just just leave 'em? Is it necessary (dangerous possibilities or wanting more light) or just a 'look' thing?



No danger, just blocking my view of the mountain across the crick, where the bear and the mountain lion roam.


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## l2edneck (Oct 27, 2006)

> I have an cunning plan to trim my ***@%&*# Washington pines*. It involves the use of my bow fishing equipment and a 'rope chain saw.' Shoot the arrow , pull up the rope, saw, saw saw saw, run like blazes so the *dead fronds don't fall on me*.




sumthin dont sound rite here hmm?


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## sgrib (Oct 27, 2006)

Palms. Pines. There's a difference?


Like I said, I'm back on my meds now.


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## arboralliance (Oct 28, 2006)

*What?*



BlueRidgeMark said:


> Palm fronds don't need an undercut. Just whack 'em.



Are you joking mate?

And I get my posts deleted for apparently writing rubbish...


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## Ekka (Oct 28, 2006)

Yeah, you trouble maker, stirring up these guys, they're veterans of war and order.


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## Ekka (Oct 28, 2006)

Hey scrib, if the palm has one of those big long dead beards i got another idea ....

... torch it!

Heck yeah, chuck some gas on it and let her rip, have a camera handy it'll be a good show at night.


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## arboralliance (Oct 28, 2006)

*Oh dear...*

What have I done now...

Awoken a sleeping giant...

Dont you get me into trouble Ekky...


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## BlueRidgeMark (Oct 28, 2006)

arboralliance said:


> Are you joking mate?



I'm sure I haven't cut anywhere nearly as many as you guys, but I've never needed an undercut. Just hold them in one hand, and cut with the other. Handsaw, in my case.

Small trees, though, so I wouldn't be surprised if that makes a difference. Or species might make a difference, come to think of it.


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## sgrib (Oct 28, 2006)

Ekka said:


> Hey scrib, if the palm has one of those big long dead beards i got another idea ....
> 
> ... torch it!
> 
> Heck yeah, chuck some gas on it and let her rip, have a camera handy it'll be a good show at night.



Tempting, but not kosher in this highly inflammable part of the world. 

A neighbor told me he got a quote of $1000 to de frond two Washy palms. An old Scotchman like me would prefer to set fire to his wallet. Does 500 bucks a tree sound reasonable to you seasoned tree guys or was someone blowing smoke?


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## John Paul Sanborn (Oct 28, 2006)

sgrib said:


> Does 500 bucks a tree sound reasonable to you seasoned tree guys or was someone blowing smoke?



Depends on where they are located, how tall they are, and if you want a professional job.

Let's see, mountain view in SoCal near Santa Barbra.. I think it's low by $500. Maybe 1000 if you're on Lake Casitas.

Seriously, too many people equate this work with unskilled labor. Say you have a $20/hr man do the work, in CA the workers Comp cost is ove 50% fo payroll. So now we are at least $30/hr for one skilled technician in payroll costs. Add in the other costs and it's more like $40. Now the truck, shipper, ground worker and a two man crew will cost around 120-160/hr. On that high end the estimator is scheduling 6 hrs for the work and cleanup and 1/2 hr travel.


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## sgrib (Oct 28, 2006)

Thanks JPS and others. My bow and arrow brainwave looks really nutty now. I'll probably end up hiring someone legit.


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## arboralliance (Oct 28, 2006)

*Dear LORD!!*



sgrib said:


> Tempting, but not kosher in this highly inflammable part of the world.
> 
> A neighbor told me he got a quote of $1000 to de frond two Washy palms. An old Scotchman like me would prefer to set fire to his wallet. Does 500 bucks a tree sound reasonable to you seasoned tree guys or was someone blowing smoke?



Pack ya bags (and ya golf clubs) Ekky 'ol boy WE IS GOIN TO AMERICA!!!

$1000 U.S.D?????????????

Are they 120' tall with a DBH of 3M?

Seriously though, can you give some dimensions to these Palms? Then we could get an idea of what you're proposing...

Cheers,

Jarrah


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## Ekka (Oct 28, 2006)

$500 USD a washy ,,, I dont care if they're tall as Empire State, I'm going.

Time to "clean up" :hmm3grin2orange: 

Jst get 1/2 dozen Mexicans cleaning the crap up under ya!


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## climbingwomdat (Oct 29, 2006)

there is an easy way of doing one of those palms, other than getting someone else to do it. Ladder to the top, hook up a life line and work your way down. Your life line don't get snagged if you set it right.


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## l2edneck (Oct 29, 2006)

Ekka said:


> $500 USD a washy ,,, I dont care if they're tall as Empire State, I'm going.
> 
> Time to "clean up" :hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> Jst get 1/2 dozen Mexicans cleaning the crap up under ya!



*Ya i do those with a lift or price em high NOWAY IM CLIMBING that crap for less than 500 *

Looks like you had fun that day Ekka.gotta love when they catch yer arm and hang like a boat anchor.


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## John Paul Sanborn (Oct 29, 2006)

climbingwomdat said:


> there is an easy way of doing one of those palms,




Yeah, though I've never done more then touch a palm, I keep thinking there has to be a better way to get up one then gaffing.

At least he's leaveing some of the rachis and not gouging the trunck.

Can you gaff up the safely using the dried rachis only, not getting into the ?

Unlike most monocots, palm stems can grow in girth by an increase in the number of parenchyma cells and vascular bundles. This primary growth is due to a region of actively dividing meristematic cells called the "primary thickening meristem" that surrounds the apical meristem at the tip of a stem. In woody monocots this meristematic region extends down the periphery of the stem where it is called the "secondary thickening meristem." New vascular bundles and parenchyma tissue are added as the stem grows in diameter.
All text material & images on these pages copyright © W.P. Armstrong http://waynesword.palomar.edu/wwstaff.htm​


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## moss (Oct 29, 2006)

I was wondering about that, the original post I thought said "Washington Pines" but then again I've never heard of a Washington Pine. Should've been tipped off by "fronds". That sounds completely impossible to trim a palm with a rope saw. Not that anyone needs convincing. Good luck with it. 
-moss


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## sgrib (Oct 29, 2006)

moss said:


> I was wondering about that, the original post I thought said "Washington Pines" but then again I've never heard of a Washington Pine. Should've been tipped off by "fronds". That sounds completely impossible to trim a palm with a rope saw. Not that anyone needs convincing. Good luck with it.
> -moss



Yep. That was a slip of the pen/finger of mine in the first post. Imagine how handy I'd be juggling saw, branch, safety rope, and almost total inexperience 80 feet up a palm tree if I can't handle a simple keyboard and a brain.

BTW. These palms are about 100 ft high. If I had a ladder long enough I might give it a try. I shouldn't, because I'm not good with heights. I like em too much and get delusions of indestructibility. One whiff of Kryptonite and I'd be a goner. 

I was on the lookout point above Yosemite valley once and the edge pulled me like a magnet. Do real tree men get that feeling ever?


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## John Paul Sanborn (Oct 29, 2006)

sgrib said:


> Do real tree men get that feeling ever?


I find the view exillerating.

The only times I get scared is whn I realize I've just unclipped my only safety.


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## arboralliance (Oct 29, 2006)

*Yep...*



sgrib said:


> Yep. That was a slip of the pen/finger of mine in the first post. Imagine how handy I'd be juggling saw, branch, safety rope, and almost total inexperience 80 feet up a palm tree if I can't handle a simple keyboard and a brain.
> 
> BTW. These palms are about 100 ft high. If I had a ladder long enough I might give it a try. I shouldn't, because I'm not good with heights. I like em too much and get delusions of indestructibility. One whiff of Kryptonite and I'd be a goner.
> 
> I was on the lookout point above Yosemite valley once and the edge pulled me like a magnet. Do real tree men get that feeling ever?



Ya gotta love the feeling and cradle it to pass through it, keep runnin from it and it will keep chasin ya...


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## moss (Oct 29, 2006)

sgrib said:


> BTW. These palms are about 100 ft high. If I had a ladder long enough I might give it a try. I shouldn't, because I'm not good with heights. I like em too much and get delusions of indestructibility. One whiff of Kryptonite and I'd be a goner.
> 
> I was on the lookout point above Yosemite valley once and the edge pulled me like a magnet. Do real tree men get that feeling ever?



All humans are afraid of heights to a certain extent, we're ground creatures after all. Anyone who works at height had to get used to it when they started and many have to continue to get used to it. Over time you gain confidence in your gear, technique and judgement. See if you can find a rec climbing course or a good climber to teach you. Build your skills and you'll start to see how it would be possible to safely do some of your own pruning work and have fun being up in a tree.

Forget the ladder on a palm, that's for experienced climbers. A ladder on a tree is the most typical way for a homeowner doing tree work to hurt themselves. If you flip the ladder off the trunk there's nothing to catch it. It's much more dangerous than putting a ladder on the side of a house.
-moss


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## sgrib (Oct 29, 2006)

Thanks Moss. Nutcase though I am, I do recognize sense when I hear it or read it. I'm grateful to be brought down to earth the easy way.


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