# ailing skid steer



## kkottemann

I have a New Holland LS 180 Skid Steer. I bought it used with 679 hours on it. It now has about 800. My problem is that is boggs down when I start moving. If I go really slow it does just fine, but when I get on it it boggs down. I have changed the fuel filter, and always make sure it has plenty of hydrostatic fluid as well as hydrolic oil. I would like to solve this porblem. What are your thoughts. My one theroy is that the hydrolic pump is going bad.

Kurt


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## sawinredneck

kkottemann said:


> I have a New Holland LS 180 Skid Steer. I bought it used with 679 hours on it. It now has about 800. My problem is that is boggs down when I start moving. If I go really slow it does just fine, but when I get on it it boggs down. I have changed the fuel filter, and always make sure it has plenty of hydrostatic fluid as well as hydrolic oil. I would like to solve this porblem. What are your thoughts. My one theroy is that the hydrolic pump is going bad.
> 
> Kurt




Change out the hydraulic filters!!! It's in need of a service.
Andy


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## neighborstree

andy couldnt of said it any better, change the filter before u where out the pump


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## redprospector

Don't know much about New Hollands, but if the Hyd. filter doesn't fix the problem there is probably a strainer/filter on the tube that draws diesel from the tank. On a Bobcat 863 it's inside the tank, and a ????? to get to.

Andy


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## kkottemann

Thanks, I try all that and see what happens


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## drmiller100

the LS180 is a great machine.

when you say it bogs down when you take off, do you mean the engine dies????

does it have a 2 speed/high low?? Are you driving it around in high??? if so, switch to low. high speed is just for roading it.

that thing should have LOTS of power. check the air filter. My case has an outer and an inner.

does it bellow black smoke when you work it???? If it is low on power, and bellows black smoke, it is an air issue. Does it have a turbo?

if low on power, but no smoke, then it si fuel issue. could be lift pump isn't working, could be plugged fuel filter, kinked line, stuff like that.


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## Magnum783

Try checking the preasure sending unit on the hydro pump. If that thinks it is wrong it does some really screwy things. E-mail me and I can get you the service manual if you want it.


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## kkottemann

I does not have high and low. No smoke while working, just when I start it up the first time. 
When I say it bogs down, it just looses power and does not kill. It happens when I take off fast or pick up something heavy fast. I does not loose much power while working it slow. Also, it runs better after it gets warmed up. I am not much of a mechanic so, I will try the things like filters and such, but if i have to take this thing apart its going in to the dealer, unless there is someone near the poplarville, Mississippi area who is willing to look at her for me.


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## drmiller100

those things are supposed to have a LOT of power.

No smoke means no fuel. smoke on startup is totally normal. after you get it running, if you load the engine hard enough to bog it down, it is normal for her to bellow some black smoke.

i'd bet you pretty good money it is the lift pump. This is the pump that pumps fuel from the tank, through the filter, adn to the injector pump.

they are pretty easy normally to change, but if you aren't comfortable bleeding the injector pump, you should probably take it to he dealer or even a somewhat competent mechanic.


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## sawinredneck

An LS180 is a midsized skisteer, not a brute at all. I highly recomend you check the hyd. filter first and foremost!!! I would bet this problem gets worse as the machine runs longer, also check the hyd temp on that machine as you run it, it's probably off the scale!! This machine sounds like it had been abused before you got it, and was not serviced properly. If memory serves, that filter should be changed every 300 hours of use.
I dissagree with the lif pump dr, liten to what he is saying, it bogs when he loads it and tries to move it hard, the tells me that its trying to pump, but can't. Always check the simple servicable things before tearing into the motor, these motors are VERY bullet proof, and 95% of failures are due to neglect, 3% are due to people not keeping the machine at full throttle, and the remaining 2% are flukes/parts failures. There is not enough hours on this machine yet for major mechanical faliure IMHO.
Andy


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## Magnum783

Hold on a sec fellers. Talked to the old man who works on these things for a living and he made a good point. A filter only works on the return side of the hydraulics not the feed. It really could be in the pump. These pumps yes may be bullet proof to an extent but can very easily fail. There is a bunch of o-ring in them and anyone can fail causing problems like that. I would look at those pumps. Take it into a dealer they should have the tools to check the preasure and flows at each one of the hoses headed to the drives. Let me know and keep me posted how things turn out. 
Jared


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## atlas1

if this all doesnt work take it to your local dealer....they will sure fix it....LOL:bang:


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## Magnum783

don't be so confident with all the dealers. New stuff we used to do a lot of this :bang:  when we had to work on them. We had not yet established tendences for failure so it was all hit a miss. This sounds a lot like a stuck valve or preasure regulator. Something that should be a grand slam for a dealer.
Jared


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## sawinredneck

Magnum783 said:


> Hold on a sec fellers. Talked to the old man who works on these things for a living and he made a good point. A filter only works on the return side of the hydraulics not the feed. It really could be in the pump. These pumps yes may be bullet proof to an extent but can very easily fail. There is a bunch of o-ring in them and anyone can fail causing problems like that. I would look at those pumps. Take it into a dealer they should have the tools to check the preasure and flows at each one of the hoses headed to the drives. Let me know and keep me posted how things turn out.
> Jared




LOL!!!! You need to spend some time in some of these "shops"!!! I have spent a da or two working on them myself.

I am not saying it can't be the pump, I am saying check the simple stuff first!!! Yes, it does filter on the return side, but think for a minute, if there is a restriction anywhere, there is a restriction everywhere. Any restiction, will cause the pump not to be able to flow anything!
Clear as mudd?
Andy


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## drmiller100

ok. 600 hours is brand new. mine has 4000.

lets talk about it for a sec. when things are working right, you can nose on into a pile of dirt, push on the controls, and the skid will spin its tires as it tries to push in. If you are good, you lift the bucket while pushing on the pile, and you CAN eventually kill the engine.
When you kill the engine doing this, it is just like all diesel engines that are overloaded. Large copious amounts of black smoke billowing out the tail pipe.

But this guy has a different problem. 

sitting on flat ground, he picks up the bucket, and slams the forward controls forward, and the engine dies. If he eases into it, it roads on down the road ok.

There are actually a minimum of 3 different hydraulic pumps. One drives left wheels, one drives right wheels, and one drives rest of hydraulics. Most modern skids have another pump for the aux hyddraulics.

So which pump are you guys thinking is bad? Which motor? I think you are on crack. if one pump was weak, she'd go in circles. Likewise motors. common occurance on these.

I think the engine flat has no power, just like the guy said it didn't. so if it has no power, then odds are it is fuel or air.

lack of black smoke says she's starving for fuel. he said he changed the filters. could be blocked line. could be bad fuel. could be lift pump.

lift pump is like 50 bucks. pumps are 4000 bucks. motors are 2000 bucks. 

by the way. is your engine oil level too high???????


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## sawinredneck

On crack ya say? Wow, and here I have tried to be civil, we'll see how long that lasts.

First off, if you ease into it, you are not flowing as much fluid causing it to move, you slam the controls you are trying to flow everything at once and it's not liking it.

You're explanation of the system shows you have operated a few, and worked on none!!!

Yes, on a typical skidsteer there are three pumps, two hydrostatic and one hydraulic. The hydrostatic pumps run the drive motors, one left and one right. The hydraulic pump runs the pistons on the machine to lift and move the bucket and arms. The hydrostatic pumps and motors are a closed loop system, the only time new fluid is introduced is when ther is a leak. The hydraulic syset is open loop. The fluid level is changing constantly due to the hydralic cylinders changing volumes, which is why you NEVER fill a hydraulic resovoir completly full. You think a skidsteer is a pain? Tear into a five section hydraulic pump on an excavator sometime!
I don't care what a lift pump costs, don't at this time think it needs it, it needs to be serviced first and then look for a bigger problem.

K-I-S-S!!!!!!!!


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## Magnum783

Agreeded check the filters and change the simple stuff first then move on. Andy I think you have the right idea. I just think it could be more. You are right the pumps on excavators are a real bear.
Jared


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## jerseydevil

Have you checked the parking brake? I seem to remember that if the brake is on even a little it boggs the engine down. The brakes on new holland arepretty simple to ajust but it takes a bit of practice. In other words, if the prior owner tried to adjust them and went to far it may be hanging up on you. I am not sure how to check it right now I'll think about it, and get back to you. The good news is, these guys are right in that it is probly something simple. Like a filter, or a brake.


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## Yellowdog

kkottemann said:


> I have a New Holland LS 180 Skid Steer. I bought it used with 679 hours on it. It now has about 800. My problem is that is boggs down when I start moving. If I go really slow it does just fine, but when I get on it it boggs down. I have changed the fuel filter, and always make sure it has plenty of hydrostatic fluid as well as hydrolic oil. I would like to solve this porblem. What are your thoughts. My one theroy is that the hydrolic pump is going bad.
> 
> Kurt



check your fuel pickup. It may be clogged in the tank.


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## sawinredneck

Yellowdog said:


> check your fuel pickup. It may be clogged in the tank.




Again, I am not rulling out something more serious, but when was it last serviced? It's fairly easy to change the hyd. filter vs. getting out the fuel pickup/lift pump/injector pump/worn out rings/blown pump seal/jacked up bypass valve etc.etc.etc........................
CHECK THE SIMPLE THINGS FIRST, then dive in deeper. If it's electric over hydraulic it may be a stikey solenoid causing the hydraulic pump to go over relief all the time. I don't have a clue. But service it first!! $30 filter, vs. three days of jacking around to find out you need a $30 filter? Makes a lot of sense to me!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
Andy


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## sawinredneck

jerseydevil said:


> Have you checked the parking brake? I seem to remember that if the brake is on even a little it boggs the engine down. The brakes on new holland arepretty simple to ajust but it takes a bit of practice. In other words, if the prior owner tried to adjust them and went to far it may be hanging up on you. I am not sure how to check it right now I'll think about it, and get back to you. The good news is, these guys are right in that it is probly something simple. Like a filter, or a brake.




This is one of my great disslikes about the NewHollad/Jon Deere/Case skidsteers, those stupid pucks they use for the parking brake!!!!
But this has just happend and he has been running it for close to 300 hours, so I think that is eleminated, unless someone took it upon themselves to adjust it without you're knowledge, or the stupid pucks have worn so thin they are binding between the brake disc and the caliper assembly?
Andy


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## neighborstree

mMmmmM crack lol


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## nittygritty

*ls 180 lift pump*

Kurt,
All that has been suggested is unlikey with exception of your lift pump.
It will be your lift pump motor that has likely burned up. If you leave the key on for a short period of time (within an hour) with the motor not running, there is a great chance a burned pump is the culpret. Check your fuses, inside the cab on your upper right. The fuse to check is the last in the row towards the rear of the machine...this is a 7.5 and is for the pump only. If it is blown, replace and try it. If the pump is burned, a person could replace fuses all day long. Also try unplugging the wires at the pump and run the machine again. It is likely there is no change.
The last pickup pump I replaced was about $280! Sorry man.


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## neighborstree

what does a lift pump have to do with the movment of the mcahine


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## grandpatractor

The lift pump he is talking about it the fuel pump that supplies fuel to the injector pump of the engine. most a electric some mechanical on the side of the engine. If you turn your key on engine off you should hear it running. I had to replace the one in my deere 260 and it cost 80 bucks. just cause you hear it running don't always mean its pumping though. you need to pull the hose and check for flow.


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## nittygritty

Yup, he's exactly right. The injector pump it self is enough to start the machine and run it and maybe even move slowly. But since the injector pump has to also pull the fuel all the way from the tank and through the maze of the water seperator and fuel lines there just isn't enough pressure to actually perform any work. The pump is designed to push, not pull. This could make one think there is a problem with the drive system or a clogged filter or the like.


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## WoodTick007

*Bleed The Fuel System*

This could be something as simple as air in the fuel line near the injector pump. I would check all the filter/strainers and then bleed the system. If that does not help, call the dealer and ack "Stupid". See what their tech will tell you...most of the time they will give you a couple tips based on the symptoms you discribe.


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## Vinman

*lift pump problems*

:msp_tongue:


drmiller100 said:


> ok. 600 hours is brand new. mine has 4000.
> 
> lets talk about it for a sec. when things are working right, you can nose on into a pile of dirt, push on the controls, and the skid will spin its tires as it tries to push in. If you are good, you lift the bucket while pushing on the pile, and you CAN eventually kill the engine.
> When you kill the engine doing this, it is just like all diesel engines that are overloaded. Large copious amounts of black smoke billowing out the tail pipe.
> 
> But this guy has a different problem.
> 
> sitting on flat ground, he picks up the bucket, and slams the forward controls forward, and the engine dies. If he eases into it, it roads on down the road ok.
> 
> There are actually a minimum of 3 different hydraulic pumps. One drives left wheels, one drives right wheels, and one drives rest of hydraulics. Most modern skids have another pump for the aux hyddraulics.
> 
> So which pump are you guys thinking is bad? Which motor? I think you are on crack. if one pump was weak, she'd go in circles. Likewise motors. common occurance on these.
> 
> I think the engine flat has no power, just like the guy said it didn't. so if it has no power, then odds are it is fuel or air.
> 
> lack of black smoke says she's starving for fuel. he said he changed the filters. could be blocked line. could be bad fuel. could be lift pump.
> 
> lift pump is like 50 bucks. pumps are 4000 bucks. motors are 2000 bucks.
> 
> by the way. is your engine oil level too high???????


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## CUCV

A Universal fuel pump from Napa 610-1052 is an affordable way to find out if its your problem at $40. Shoot I just spent over $50 on a oil filter for my chipper the other day. You should also be able to pull off your fuel return line and check out the flow, yeah its not a pressure test but you would be able to sense a weak flow.

Does the machine run hot once its up and going? Its usually a sign of fuel delivery problems making the engine run lean.


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## grandpatractor

Dug this one up from the grave!


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## tawilson

Yeah, but now I want to know how it ended. I like closure.


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## MCFATE CONST.

*My lx565 is doing the same thing.*

My LX565 2001 is doing the same thing. I have replaced all filters except the hydraulic filter and still same problems. Noticed that on other forums guys were saying that it might be the injector pump. Have you found out what your problem is yet. Please let me know if you have.

Thanks, 
Phillip


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## chainsawcircus

had a bobcat t190 act like this, and two grand for a turbo fixed it. Not sure is machine is forced or not


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## MCFATE CONST.

The machine I have is not turbo. Just wish i could find someone who has had this problem and knows what the fix is. If a turbo fixed yours them most likely it is injectors. Thank you for the response.


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## 046

kkottemann said:


> I does not have high and low. No smoke while working, just when I start it up the first time.
> When I say it bogs down, it just looses power and does not kill. It happens when I take off fast or pick up something heavy fast. I does not loose much power while working it slow. Also, it runs better after it gets warmed up. I am not much of a mechanic so, I will try the things like filters and such, but if i have to take this thing apart its going in to the dealer, unless there is someone near the poplarville, Mississippi area who is willing to look at her for me.



everyone is of course trying to help.... but... but ... but without seeing it in person. everyone is just guessing. 

problems like you are describing could be engine and/or hydraulics related. lack of power could be from engine not running right... or engine getting too large of load placed on it, or pump is not working correctly due to clogged system and/or bad pump(s)

800 hours is nothing for an industrial machine like this. but it's not unheard of for a major part to fail early. 

since you are not mechanically inclined... best thing to do is to pay a trusted experience mechanic diagnose what's wrong. this will not be free, to check systems takes special tools and time. 

before taking in... do all the simple maintenance items first... like change out all filters... air, fuel, hydraulic, etc. a clogged exhaust can also cause what you are describing.


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## VA-Sawyer

I just can't believe how many people think a diesel can be lean. Sorry folks it just isn't possible. They don't have throttle plates like a gas engine does, so they get a full air charge in the cylinder all the time. Low fuel flow is how you slow it down to idle, or rather, how the governor does. The throttle control doesn't directly control the fuel flow, it just tells the governor what speed you want, and the governor adjusts the flow through the injector pump to maintain that speed.

While I'm on the subject of debunking old wives tales..... A plugged hydraulic filter will NOT cause the system to bog down. Every hydraulic filter housing I have ever seen, had a bypass valve that would open somewhere between 15 and 50 psi pressure difference across the filter. That is the reason they should be changed on schedule, as you can't tell they are getting clogged by how the equipment is working.
Rick


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## juststumps

Here's another Opinion .... We have a Deere Skid Loader at work , same symptoms . Bogs down turning, lifting, etc.

A lot of the new machines don't have standard injector pumps . Every thing is in the head .

Unit direct injection
Main article: Unit Injector

Unit direct injection also injects fuel directly into the cylinder of the engine. In this system the injector and the pump are combined into one unit positioned over each cylinder controlled by the camshaft. Each cylinder has its own unit eliminating the high pressure fuel lines, achieving a more consistent injection. This type of injection system, also developed by Bosch, is used by Volkswagen AG in cars (where it is called a Pumpe-Düse-System—literally pump-nozzle system) and by Mercedes Benz ("PLD") and most major diesel engine manufacturers in large commercial engines (CAT, Cummins, Detroit Diesel, Volvo). 

Basically , the lift pump fills a reservoir in the head for each cylinder, The fuel runs into the injector, pump on each cylinder works like a syringe running off the cam shaft. There is a mechanical metering slide , the operates off the Throttle/governor. The slide regulates the amount of fuel used . If this goes bad ... Big Money repairs.


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## chainsawcircus

got rid of a ct322 like this. most hateful machine I ever worked on.


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