# SUCCESS!!! Just repaired Stihl 045/056 Bosch electronic ignition!!!!!



## foggysail

Many here in the forum may have read my recent posts regarding the Bosch electronic ignition. My 056 pooped the bed or better still make that my lawn while I was in the middle of clearing trees. And yes, problem was no spark. I have also read numerous posts stating that the cause is "coil opening while hot." Well folks, I doubt its either of the magnetic devices in the ignition needed for it to function. My advice....save your money, do not replace the high voltage transformer or the charging inductor. They are the least likely to fail but my saw's component that did fail operated on the border of component death. Just a matter of time before they all fail.

The problem resides in the potted electronics, that area between the charging inductor and the high voltage transformer. AND THEY CAN BE REPAIRED! NO so called little fix all boxes to take the place of the original ignition, no retiming, just bright blue spark or at least that is what mine now displays in my basement after repair.

Now here is a gutcha. If somebody will part with a junk ignition which I need for two reasons, I will take pictures of how to make the repair, provide written instructions and explain which part needs to be purchased. I purchased my part on EBay, bought 10 of them, delivered for under $7 bucks.

The reason I need another ignition is to verify this is the common fault that folks experience with an ignition failure. I think it is but I feel uncomfortable with a repair sample of 1. The next reason is mine is too ripped apart (it functions though) to take pictures for repair instructions. If anybody in the forum has one they want to contribute to the cause, I gladly pay for shipping and handling. This is a chance for every 045/056 with bad ignitions to get their saw running again. Mine now works.... I have not yet started the saw, just got may parts in this afternoon and rushed to install one. Just too anxious to put that off.

So there you have it. I believe all the failures or at least the greatest number of them are from the same component failure. Too many guys have seen their great 045/056 go belly up with no practical repair. There is hope guys and it is free but I am not going to even attempt to describe how to make the repair until I can do it properly. And you do not need electrical skills although you will need a soldering iron and solder purchased from Radio Shack or some other place that sells electronic stuff. The repair probably take around an hour to complete. You cannot use plumbing solder. So lets see how much interest this thread excites if any.

Foggy


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## 67L36Driver

Bump.


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## psuiewalsh

I would like to see your method as well as long term running. I had the same excitement with an 045 and the chip. It would still fail when the saw got hot.


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## psuiewalsh

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/stihl-056-bosch-ignition.153271/page-4#post-4766517


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## LowVolt

I got a brother in law that has one I think. I will ask him.


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## foggysail

psuiewalsh said:


> http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/stihl-056-bosch-ignition.153271/page-4#post-4766517





psuiewalsh said:


> http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/stihl-056-bosch-ignition.153271/page-4#post-4766517



I SEE THAT YOU READ MY POSTS!!! : - )

Yes indeed, it is an internal capacitor that is the cause of the problems. And part of the fix is not only to replace that capacitor but to move it. The repair is simple......once you know how! That is the essence of my request for a dog so I can take pictures, write up instructions and so forth.

This was not a simple find! I had to rip apart my unit to get access to the interior printed circuit board and then trace out the circuit so I could analyze it. And by the way, that capacitor is something special because it needs a pulse rating. My fix will work guys and if you want it, you know what I need to have in order to provide it.

And one last thing, my fix takes care of temperature issues. Hey--- I am trying to help you guys, not screw with you. I have a degree in electrical engineering, years of circuit design experience. You guys out in the woods cutting trees for a living face a hard enough job just getting home safely to your families every night without needing to worry if your tools pooping the bed.

Foggy


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## LowVolt

I just sent him a text. It may be morning before he can answer me . I will let you know.


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## MechanicMatt

My buddy at work just replaced his with the "800" part number. Ill see if I can get my hands on his old one. Won't know till morning.


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## foggysail

Thanks guys! Those of you who do repairs should follow my suggestion and spend the 7 bucks for 10 of those needed capacitors while they are available for almost nothing on EBay. See post 7 above


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## Milkman31

opcorn:


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## Mo. Jim

foggysail said:


> Thanks guys! Those of you who do repairs should follow my suggestion and spend the 7 bucks for 10 of those needed capacitors while they are available for almost nothing on EBay. See post 7 above


 I just bought mine.


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## 67L36Driver

Mo. Jim said:


> I just bought mine.



Got some Stihls to fix Jim?


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## R DeLawter

foggysail said:


> Thanks guys! Those of you who do repairs should follow my suggestion and spend the 7 bucks for 10 of those needed capacitors while they are available for almost nothing on EBay. See post 7 above


I just ordered 10 of them.
It is neat that you are willing to tackle this problem and help others. A lot more drive then many people your age.


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## XSKIER

Is it the same trigger assembly as an 020AV? I have a dead one I'll send ya. Pm me your coordinates.


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## Mo. Jim

67L36Driver said:


> Got some Stihls to fix Jim?


 I think I have one or three with bad ignitions.


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## k_kindig11

Subscribed. Many will benefit from this. Nice work. Excited to see the tutorial.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## harrygrey382

yeah subscribed too. Sounds good


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## XSKIER

Are you interested in trying one of these?


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## foggysail

XSKIER said:


> Are you interested in trying one of these?


Sorry-- I don't know anything about that particular ignition.


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## 046

foggysail said:


> Many here in the forum may have read my recent posts regarding the Bosch electronic ignition. My 056 pooped the bed or better still make that my lawn while I was in the middle of clearing trees. And yes, problem was no spark. I have also read numerous posts stating that the cause is "coil opening while hot." Well folks, I doubt its either of the magnetic devices in the ignition needed for it to function. My advice....save your money, do not replace the high voltage transformer or the charging inductor. They are the least likely to fail but my saw's component that did fail operated on the border of component death. Just a matter of time before they all fail.
> 
> The problem resides in the potted electronics, that area between the charging inductor and the high voltage transformer. AND THEY CAN BE REPAIRED! NO so called little fix all boxes to take the place of the original ignition, no retiming, just bright blue spark or at least that is what mine now displays in my basement after repair.
> 
> Now here is a gutcha. If somebody will part with a junk ignition which I need for two reasons, I will take pictures of how to make the repair, provide written instructions and explain which part needs to be purchased. I purchased my part on EBay, bought 10 of them, delivered for under $7 bucks.
> 
> The reason I need another ignition is to verify this is the common fault that folks experience with an ignition failure. I think it is but I feel uncomfortable with a repair sample of 1. The next reason is mine is too ripped apart (it functions though) to take pictures for repair instructions. If anybody in the forum has one they want to contribute to the cause, I gladly pay for shipping and handling. This is a chance for every 045/056 with bad ignitions to get their saw running again. Mine now works.... I have not yet started the saw, just got may parts in this afternoon and rushed to install one. Just too anxious to put that off.
> 
> So there you have it. I believe all the failures or at least the greatest number of them are from the same component failure. Too many guys have seen their great 045/056 go belly up with no practical repair. There is hope guys and it is free but I am not going to even attempt to describe how to make the repair until I can do it properly. And you do not need electrical skills although you will need a soldering iron and solder purchased from Radio Shack or some other place that sells electronic stuff. The repair probably take around an hour to complete. You cannot use plumbing solder. So lets see how much interest this thread excites if any.
> 
> Foggy



detailed repair instructions along with clear pictures sure would be appreciated!!!! and much needed ..don't worry about ugly pictures. what's more important is explaining what needs to be replaced/fixed. 

I've got a dead coil to send ... start conversation if you want it for a test Guinea pig


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## deerhunter77

I have one also. Let me know and it is yours..


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## foggysail

046 said:


> detailed repair instructions along with clear pictures sure would be appreciated!!!! and much needed ..
> 
> I've got a dead coil to send ... start conversation if you want it for a test Guinea pig





deerhunter77 said:


> I have one also. Let me know and it is yours..



046--

Please be patient. All of us have suffered from Bosch's unit. As soon as I get a couple of units, I will post pictures and instructions that I believe you NEED. Without them you just run the risk of screwing up a repairable ignition. One thing you can do in the mean time if not already is purchase those capacitors I recommended.....AND NO, I AM NOT THE GUY SELLING THEM : - )


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## foggysail

Deerhunter & 046--- sent communications

Thanks guys--


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## deerhunter77

I will ship mine out next week. No worries about the shipping.


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## Duke Thieroff

I'll send one over too if your others happen to call through....


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## foggysail

Thanks Duke!


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## MechanicMatt

MechanicMatt said:


> My buddy at work just replaced his with the "800" part number. Ill see if I can get my hands on his old one. Won't know till morning.


Foggy I talked to my buddy with the 056magII, he'll bring it in to work monday, where do we ship it to? And do we get it back working?? Could always use a spare? Or do you have enough on the way? Should we hold tight for now and wait for the "fix" to be posted???? When I told him about this thread of yours his eyes lit up, hehehehe. Got a old guy to think there was hope for his beloved ole saws. He has a collection of old magnesium stihls. 045's and a couple 056's


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## Rockfarmer

You got my attention!! Thanks!!


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## big t double

opcorn: Popcorning in to this one...have two 056's sitting in my basement in line to be tinkered with.


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## foggysail

MechanicMatt said:


> Foggy I talked to my buddy with the 056magII, he'll bring it in to work monday, where do we ship it to? And do we get it back working?? Could always use a spare? Or do you have enough on the way? Should we hold tight for now and wait for the "fix" to be posted???? When I told him about this thread of yours his eyes lit up, hehehehe. Got a old guy to think there was hope for his beloved ole saws. He has a collection of old magnesium stihls. 045's and a couple 056's




Matt-- Just sent conversation to you

Thanks--

Foggy


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## foggysail

Rockfarmer & BigT--

At least two ingnitons should arrive soon. So hang onto yours unless those expected don't arrive for some reasons.

I continue to suggest to those of you who have problems, purchase the needed capacitors from Ebay while available. Sure, capacitors are not in short supply but those on EBay are very inexpensive. I am going to put together the instructions as quickly as possible after the dead ignitions arrive so the "fix" can REALLY get tested out there in the field.

If the field test confirm my expectations, I believe we will see fewer low priced 045/056's out there on EBay.

Foggy


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## Jacob J.

What's the voltage rating for the capacitors for this application?


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## maico490

Foggysail I will be following this thread with great interest. It looks like you are sorted for some more ignitions but I would have been prepared to send you one from the UK. There is a 056 Super with ignition problems on UK ebay that I will now be watching with some interest. AS has been lacking this sort of thread lately so well done for posting.


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## wcorey

> What's the voltage rating for the capacitors for this application?



400v
Post #64...
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/stihl-056-bosch-ignition.153271/page-4#post-4766517
http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/stihl-056-bosch-ignition.153271/page-4#post-4766517


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## towingace

I'm excited as hell about this thread! Good goin' Foggy.


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## foggysail

Jacob J. said:


> What's the voltage rating for the capacitors for this application?



The voltage rating on the old caps is 400. But you do bring an interesting question to the forum. The correct voltage rating? Unfortunately I don't know because I cannot put my oscilloscope across the cap, hold the saw down, pull the starting cord and look at the charging waveform all at the same time. So I settled with the 400v, same as the original. Now all things are not equal here. The original cap is physically smaller along with being slightly less capacitance at 0.8 uf. So the value of convenience (1uf) is 20% greater than the 0.8 original value. Further, Bosch probably worried about the limited available volume which could have moved them to the 0.8uf selection. And then they potted everything and stuck it into a place where there is little cooling where high operating temperatures affect the device's life expectancy.

The higher value that I am recommending could result in slightly less spark voltage. Note the charge voltage on the capacitor is transformed (so called coil) to a high voltage related to the transformer turns ratio. OK but the capacitor's voltage is governed by he equation (I*T/C). The larger value of C will result in a lower charge voltage when used in the same application. I don't think that's a problem.

I will try if I can get local help to see what the charge on the cap actually is... at pull cord RPM. But consider the worst case where the voltage is higher than the capacitor's rating. Further assume it causes a future problem. Well, not a real problem like we have faced up until now because if one of our new caps have a voltage failure, heck, we can just upgrade to a higher voltage device. And again remember from the previous paragraph, because the suggested new capacitor's value is 20% greater, the peak charge will be 20% lower voltage.

A little technical although I believe most can understand my dialog. And Jacob-- good question : - )

Foggy


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## foggysail

maico490 said:


> Foggysail I will be following this thread with great interest. It looks like you are sorted for some more ignitions but I would have been prepared to send you one from the UK. There is a 056 Super with ignition problems on UK ebay that I will now be watching with some interest. AS has been lacking this sort of thread lately so well done for posting.



Thanks Maico--


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## LegDeLimber

It's been over 20 years since I dabbled in any of this stuff.
....was looking at inverters for powering some automotive audio amplification.
I would consider myself as one of those people with "a smattering of ignorance about many things"
on my BEST day.

The cap value makes me curious if it affects timing of some event.
Say a trigger threshold gets delayed till cap is charged.
could this allow the magnet to a bit far past the laminations when the trigger voltage is reached?
Will the value change affect the timing curve?
Yeah, yeah velocity of magnets past the iron, gap size and all that other stuff counts too.
Some of those funky tails and tapers or leg numbers, magnet count etc
of the various ignition iron
have had me wondering how they affected things.

Any idea what the failure mode of the original capacitor was? 
Was it an electrolytic, if so did the heat dry it out? 
thermal cycling stress.
vibration causeing chaffing/shorting in the layers 
You mentioned things being potted, but could the leads still pulled from shaking
of the insides?
some sort of repeated assembly line oopsies?
Seen plenty of them in metal fabrication.

Not meaning to seem nit-picking ( I'm far too un-knowledgeable for that )
Just that your post/thread sort of woke up some little used portion of my brain and now
I'm just curious to see what Ya got going on!
You mentioned scoping things out. any chance there's a nasty spike or coil ringing pounding it?
I blew a small, polarized, cap in my ignorant putzing around with a self oscillating (center taped) coil
and transitors rig up.
Went off like a 22 short. stunk like heck and a little polyester streamer and odd bits scattered around the room.
Still got a pile of stuff crammed away here from those days.


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## sachsmo

Can't wait for the details,

I have fixed several Bosch units, but have never got into the 'potted' stuff. (grounding issues)

However with the help of youtube I did fix our Samsung (TV) start-up problem by replacing the 10 volt caps with 25 volt caps in the power board.

So what is special about the caps in the Bosch unit? And how do you 'melt' the 'potting'?


Glad to have a circuit designer on board, where were you 8 years ago when I shelled out $100 for one (after searching for a year)


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## foggysail

LegDeLimber said:


> It's been over 20 years since I dabbled in any of this stuff.
> ....was looking at inverters for powering some automotive audio amplification.
> I would consider myself as one of those people with "a smattering of ignorance about many things"
> on my BEST day.
> 
> The cap value makes me curious if it affects timing of some event.
> Say a trigger threshold gets delayed till cap is charged.
> could this allow the magnet to a bit far past the laminations when the trigger voltage is reached?
> Will the value change affect the timing curve?
> Yeah, yeah velocity of magnets past the iron, gap size and all that other stuff counts too.
> Some of those funky tails and tapers or leg numbers, magnet count etc
> of the various ignition iron
> have had me wondering how they affected things.
> 
> Any idea what the failure mode of the original capacitor was?
> Was it an electrolytic, if so did the heat dry it out?
> thermal cycling stress.
> vibration causeing chaffing/shorting in the layers
> You mentioned things being potted, but could the leads still pulled from shaking
> of the insides?
> some sort of repeated assembly line oopsies?
> Seen plenty of them in metal fabrication.
> 
> Not meaning to seem nit-picking ( I'm far too un-knowledgeable for that )
> Just that your post/thread sort of woke up some little used portion of my brain and now
> I'm just curious to see what Ya got going on!
> You mentioned scoping things out. any chance there's a nasty spike or coil ringing pounding it?
> I blew a small, polarized, cap in my ignorant putzing around with a self oscillating (center taped) coil
> and transitors rig up.
> Went off like a 22 short. stunk like heck and a little polyester streamer and odd bits scattered around the room.
> Still got a pile of stuff crammed away here from those days.




A long post! I want to emphasize what I said in an earlier post, NO TIMING CHANGES ARE NEEDED............PERIOD! 

I am not running a home laboratory to do failure analysis so the exact reasons for the Bosch capacitor failure is best asked to Bosch, not me and that includes what dielectric is used in their capacitor. And no, an electrolytic capacitor is out of the question for this application. The dielectric of my suggested capacitor is AC & pulse rated metalized film polypropylene.


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## LegDeLimber

Foggy (and all others) Sorry I'm such a scatterbrain and write as such.
I was zero-wiping ,reformatting and running memory tests, etc on a used laptop 
and whilst waiting, just sort of got lost in my fragmented thoughts here.
While typing I seem to lose about 70~80 percent of what I'm thinking
and it can often become a real train wreck after having also been truncated by my carpal tunnel typing speed.


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## Milkman31

Ttt


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## olyman

foggysail said:


> Sorry-- I don't know anything about that particular ignition.


heres a que.....is it a bosch coil on a olympyk saw??? on the 945/950, those are known for taking out coils!!!! and theres no efco or other olympyk coil that works in its place!!! wonder if that's what happens to them,,as they are where there is near no airflow????


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## foggysail

What I have found is that it is ...............NOT!!!!!...................THE CALLED COILS that are the problem. SO FAR, I CAN SHOUT...............FORGET ABOUT THE HIGH VOLTAGE PULSE TRANSFORMER ALONG WITH THE CHARGING INDUCTOR!!!!

Now what the heck is going on with me an my fix???? Mo. Jim was the only person to date to send a failed ignition for me to analyze. I can report the failure I found is identical to what I found earlier. It is an internal capacitor. I will be posting pictures, hopefully within a day or two. I have already started taking pictures of the repair to the ignition that Jim provided. My next step is to make a complete installation into my 056 taking pictures of each step so others WITHOUT TECHNICAL SKILLS can make the needed repair. Those of you who have this problem, hang onto your failed ignitions, make the repairs I will outline. Then report back to the forum your results. Your feedback is important to verify the fix.

As to the Olympic..... I haven't a clue what their problems are. IF they use the Bosch ignition... one that closely resembles the Bosch used in the 045/056 then there is a high likelihood it has the same failure mode.

Patience---- I should have this all together before the week is out.

Foggy


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## foggysail

Please see below for another use of the Bosch ignition

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/dolmar-120-ignition.252526/#post-4793439

There, Sachsmo mentions he has repair several/many of these ignitions. And I believe he has! I have ignored the shutdown wire which can be obvious with its insulation falling off. I have concentrated on fixing a failure in the electronic box. Incidentally, the ignition I mention above from Mo. Jim, the shut down wire had been repaired and without doubt, it required repair.


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## nmurph

sachsmo said:


> Glad to have a circuit designer on board...


 
No pun intended, I'm sure!!!


FS, when you get this worked out, the next problem to solve is how to unlimit limited coils. I would love to have a solution especially for the Dolmar 7900.


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## Milkman31

Got mine!!!


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## foggysail

TEARS ON MY PILLOW, BLISTERS ON MY HAND!* BUT THE IGNITION FIX WORKS!!!!!* And when you see the repair pictures you will see why the new capacitor will never heat up as the Bosch's storage capacitor most likely did.

Ok guys this is what happened and remember, no mechanic here. I got my 056 together today! Checked the spark, nice blue glow so that is fine. My saw however takes two men and a boy to pull the starter code. The guy I purchased it from told me he installed the larger cylinder head & piston to upgrade it to the equivalent of the Magnum. * Does the Magnum have a different starting mechanism to provide greater mechanical advantage??*

Now back to my tears. I squirted some starting fluid into the carburetor, set the throttle to high using the throttle lock (BIG MISTAKE), Yanked on the pull rope and the thing started with a raw, most likely soaring to over 10K RPMs for all of about 3-4 seconds. After that there was again peace in the valley. Pulled the starting rope....no resistance at all now! Pulled the plug and of course there could be no resistance because the piston was not moving.

Took it back to my work bench, pull the starter mechanism off and lo and be hold!!!! The nut holding the flywheel was loose...and I I had tightened this originally. But again, no mechanic here. I need to pull the flywheel and check the key before I do anything more with it. Whatever damage I stupidly caused, the ignition is just fine. I will try to get the pictures posted along with instructions later tonight, if not it will be tomorrow.

More later

Foggy


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## foggysail

Milkman31 said:


> Got mine!!!View attachment 347798




YES!!!!!!!!!!! THESE ARE WHAT YOU NEED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But if things go right and electrically speaking, I believe they will... then you will only need one (1)! Heck, I would put an ad right here in the forums offering the other 9 for sale......maybe $20 each : - )

Foggy


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## foggysail

THE FIX!!!!

This may be a little verbose but my intent is to convey all that is needed to implement the fix. So first, I will start with a failed ignition showing and describing the repair steps. The tools you will need are: soldering iron....25 watts should work using solder designed for electronic work NOT PLUMBING SOLDER, I recommend an inexpensive heat gun...Harbor Freight maybe but with care you can work without one, epoxy designed for plastics.... HD or Lowes for about $5, electric drill with a 1/4 or so bit, a wire crimp tool with a lug (see pictures), and last I used a hot glue gun to sort of seal up the mounted new capacitor. The hot glue I used is industrial quality and you can get by substituting caulking selected from one of the many types available. And of course both a blade and Philips screwdriver will come in handy.


Heat the small section as shown in the above picture, try to avoid heating the pulse transformer. The potting does not have to melt, just soften so a small section can be removed with a screwdriver or other suitable tool.



DON'T GET CARRIED AWAY chipping out that potting material! Take you time doing this. In teh above picture you see the shinny tinned copper PC run. The next picture will show where I want you to cut. Try to leave about 1/8" gap. 





Heat up your soldering iron and get ready to solder an insulated wire onto the right hand side of the exposed PC bus (not the short piece to the left). I salvaged my wire from an old computer power supply and because I added 3 wires, I used two different colors so I could tell which went where. 18 gauge stranded wire will work fine. Please! Don't use a length of solid core house wire, your asking for trouble.


I tucked that yellow wire under the pulse transformer. There is another wire that you add using a crimped lug. Secure it under the screw (holding the pulse transformer) above where you made your cut. Don't tighten the screw yet. Later when you install the ignition that lug will be in the way trying to get the mounting screw into the saw proper. That is when you will tighten the lug down. OH-- avoid using the yellow sized lugs. They are much larger and can get in the way of the rotating flywheel. Adding a third wire is entirely up to you, I used black so I would not mix it with the others. I cut the shutdown wire that goes to the on/off switch and replaced it with this third wire. If you don't bother replacing the shutdown wire, take care that the old wire's insulation is intact, cover it, tape it or just cut it out, it your decision. Remember if you disable that wire, you disable the on/off circuit to shut the saw off.


Now here is where each of you can add value! I squeezed all three wires into the shared hole with the spark plug wire. There is a rubber grommet in the hole so they can be made to fit. Maybe you want to drill a new hole....???? Anyway, that is left for you to decide. After pushing the wires into the grommet, I used a piece of steel wire... coat hanger will work... shaped with a hook on the end to fish the wires out. Next I drilled 3 holes in the plastic air shield....1/4" or thereaboiut should work. Tow of the holes is for a tie wrap that I used to hold the new capacitor in place. The other hole is for the two yellow wires to pass through. Note I left the wires on the outside of the plastic to avoid them getting caught with the flywheel's fan. That's why you need to drill a hole for the wires.




Scrub the plastic under the tie wrap with alcohol and also scrub the new capacitor with the same. Mix up your epoxy. Paint generous amount of epoxy across the section under the tie wrap and on one side of the new capacitor. The capacitor will seat under the tie wrap with its two wire terminals pointing downward toward the flywheel. MAKE SURE you seat that cap such that it has space for the wires to be soldered to the terminals such that they don't get damaged by the fan. That is important! After pushing the new cap into place, tighten up on the tie wrap. Next pull both yellow wires into place and cut them leaving enough length to strip 1/4" or so needed to solder one wire to each terminal.




I used my trusty old, beat up glue gun to bury the new capacitor along with the new wires with hot glue. This ensures they will not move about with the saw's vibration.










IF YOU GOT THIS FAR---------- YOU HAVE COMPLETED THE FIX!!!!!!!!!! 

You can test the fix after the epoxy dries along with the hot glue or caulking or whatever you select to use. 

Assemble the saw so you can pull the starter rope....remove the spark plug from the engine, clip a grounding wire to it and pull the starting rope. If things go well, you should have a nice blue spark!

Will try to answer any questions-- Good luck, you can do it! Its not brain surgery!

Foggy


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## foggysail

I forgot to show how the ignition looks and how I ran the wires. ALSO--- I FORGOT TO MENTION THAT HOLE YOU DUG OUT OF THE POTTING, FILL IT WITH EPOXY OR YOUR CAULKING STUFF. And be sure that yellow wire is tight and not loose where it can hit the flywheel.

Again-- best of luck----


Foggy


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## hotshot

Great job on the Bosch CDI ignition repair, too bad that I've thrown dozens of those in the trash can!

Are the caps not polarized?, in other words it makes no difference which yellow wire attaches to the terminals (the yellow ground wire or the yellow PC bus wire).


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## foggysail

hotshot said:


> Great job on the Bosch CDI ignition repair, too bad that I've thrown dozens of those in the trash can!
> 
> Are the caps not polarized?, in other words it makes no difference which yellow wire attaches to the
> terminals (the yellow ground wire or the yellow PC bus wire).



No, the capacitor is not polarized, just fasten the two wires, one each to a terminal... with solder of course. And too bad its too late to "dumpster dive" and retrieve those failed units. Now I want to be clear... many things can fail, I believe however the primary failure component is the capacitor. I have tested two so far, each suffering from this common fault. I have another ignition scheduled to arrive Saturday which I will test. I will be very surprised if the failure is a different component.

Those of you who need capacitors should check out EBay. I have described what type is needed previously in this thread, even posted a recommended capacitor where the seller will deliver 10 each for less than $7! See post 48 above.

Keep the faith, try the fix, the more people that do and find success will give the fix greater credibility!

Foggy


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## maico490

Brilliant Foggy!
I nearly started digging the potting off my ignition but glad I didn't as the board is way closer to the surface than I imagined. Fortunately I never throw anything away but this creates a problem in finding things!
Now I just need to find the capacitors on this side of the Atlantic to avoid the shipping.


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## foggysail

maico490 said:


> Brilliant Foggy!
> I nearly started digging the potting off my ignition but glad I didn't as the board is way closer to the surface than I imagined. Fortunately I never throw anything away but this creates a problem in finding things!
> Now I just need to find the capacitors on this side of the Atlantic to avoid the shipping.



Just be careful what you order. Distributors include Mouser, Newark Electronic components, Digikey, Jameco Electronics.........BUT YOUR LEAST EXPENSIVE ROUTE IS TO FOLLOW THE PATH TO EBAY---[ got to have them pay me a commission!!! : - ) ]


----------



## foggysail

HEY!!!! HOW DID YOU GUYS LIKE MY FINGERNAIL POLISH???? A little chipped?

That was Wifey's fingers. I had her hold a cold soldering iron near the wire I had soldered so I could take the picture.....HONEST GUYS---- : - )


----------



## Milkman31

foggysail said:


> HEY!!!! HOW DID YOU GUYS LIKE MY FINGERNAIL POLISH???? A little chipped?
> 
> That was Wifey's fingers. I had her hold a cold soldering iron near the wire I had soldered so I could take the picture.....HONEST GUYS---- : - )


Yeah yeah yeah !!! J/k


----------



## deerhunter77

foggysail said:


> HEY!!!! HOW DID YOU GUYS LIKE MY FINGERNAIL POLISH???? A little chipped?
> 
> That was Wifey's fingers. I had her hold a cold soldering iron near the wire I had soldered so I could take the picture.....HONEST GUYS---- : - )


I saw that and was a little puzzled. But either way good fix. Lol


----------



## foggysail

Milkman31 said:


> Yeah yeah yeah !!! J/k




: - (


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## Milkman31

Just talked to a small shop owner about the 045&056. He knows a guy that has a few that doesn't run should I feel bad for buying these for little $$$$ ? If I can lol !!


----------



## foggysail

Milkman31 said:


> Just talked to a small shop owner about the 045&056. He knows a guy that has a few that doesn't run should I feel bad for buying these for little $$$$ ? If I can lol !!



Yes--- you should feel real, real bad but only if you hurt your back carrying them to your truck : - )

Better do it before word gets out about a fix!


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## wisecobandit

Maico490.. I bought 10 winging there way to the U.K..
Just a case of waiting for them to turn up.


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## roncoinc

I just captured all the pix and pertinant text info into seperate .jpeg's and saved to disk to make sure i have a handy referance on this subject that wont dissapear someday like so much that has been lost on this forum.

i hope the situation on the " other " wires on the unit is made more clear when i actually have a unit in hand.


----------



## foggysail

There are not many "other" wires to make things complicated. There are two yellow wires displayed that attach to two terminals on a new capacitor.... not polarized. On the other ends of the yellow wires has one attached to a grounding lug while the other is soldered as displayed. The black wire is a replacement for the existing wire whose insulation is rotted away. Oh the large wire in the ignition is the spark plug wire.

Your worries about lost information is true. This free repair instruction should be made a sticky but I will leave that to the moderators.

Foggy


----------



## foggysail

Has anybody tried the "FIX"?


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## roncoinc

foggysail said:


> There are not many "other" wires to make things complicated. There are two yellow wires displayed that attach to two terminals on a new capacitor.... not polarized. On the other ends of the yellow wires has one attached to a grounding lug while the other is soldered as displayed. The black wire is a replacement for the existing wire whose insulation is rotted away. Oh the large wire in the ignition is the spark plug wire.
> 
> Your worries about lost information is true. This free repair instruction should be made a sticky but I will leave that to the moderators.
> 
> Foggy


 
Tnx for clearing that up,,been so long since i seen one needed clarification.

even as a sticky the info could be lost,,as happened not to long ago 

where abouts south of my border you at ??


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## R DeLawter

I did get the capacitors through e-bay and have one saw coming in for the fix ( after the crops are in the ground ). Have another 056 setting here that has bad coil but it is not the Bosch set up.


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## foggysail

roncoinc said:


> Tnx for clearing that up,,been so long since i seen one needed clarification.
> 
> even as a sticky the info could be lost,,as happened not to long ago
> 
> where abouts south of my border you at ??




Ashland, MA


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## roncoinc

foggysail said:


> Ashland, MA


 
ok,curiouse,,,I'm about and hour or so north of Boston.


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## nstueve

So do we have a succus rate higher than two units so far? 

Just wondering as I know Axlr8 has a few of these including one of mine that could probably benefit from this fix. 

cheers!


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## foggysail

nstueve said:


> So do we have a succus rate higher than two units so far?
> 
> Just wondering as I know Axlr8 has a few of these including one of mine that could probably benefit from this fix.
> 
> cheers!




Weeell............your's can be number three. Do the fix on yours and get back to us with the results. And be aware of the insulation failure on the shut off wire. Either add new insulation such as shrink wrap over the wire or cut it at the ignition and splice a replacement wire to the cut.


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## nstueve

can't do the fix on mine. Axlr8 has about 2.5-3 of these things I sent him and he's making 1x 056magII for me. He's real eager to run a 056magII so he wanted to get my points figured out. I was just wanting the points b/c I didn't want to mess with failing electronic parts in the future. I think some assumptions were made about parts failing on these due to moisture and heat. However, it seems you have a good solution to a long term problem. Now we just have to find a company willing to make the special sized clutch side bearing and seal for us. If they blow out... GOOD LUCK finding a cheap NOS replacement for them! I was lucky enough to find the some modestly priced parts to round out 90%-95% of that magII Nich (axlr8) has.

I'm sure he will turn up over here in the next day or so... Then he can run the fix on my saw and send it home!

PS: foggy... I think i understand the wire routing you used but a side pic or two of where the 3 wires are running into the "coil" would probably be better. Some of us just turn wrenches and don't know the proper terms for all the electrical pieces you were talking about unless you have a pic that has lables pointing to the parts... Good to see we have someone good with electronic stuff around now!!!

PSS: I'm with Neal... crack open one of those Dolmar 6400-7900 coils and tell us how to dissable the "electronic limiter" that keeps the rpm band under 13,000(?need a number check?) RPM. PITA to tune a limited saw when it's bumping the limiter at WOT. I've got a dcs6401 I can send you if you want to take a shot at it!!!!


----------



## foggysail

You make a good point regarding a side picture. I'll try to do that a little later when I have my camera with me. But maybe a few words will help.

My pictures show two yellow wires. One wire is clearly visible where it was soldered and later covered with hot glue. The other yellow wire has a wire connector crimped onto it and is attached under one of the screws holding a coil to the assembly. That wire provides a ground connection. I placed it under the screw to keep the electrical path length short.

The black wire is the wire that goes to the shut off switch. But your right, another picture showing how its routed might help. I have a "gutted" ignition that I can use later to take some pictures for you.

I cannot help you with your Dolmar problem. I don't have a saw [ and no--- please don't send one to me :- ) ] and I really don't have the time to dig into the problem. And again---- I will stop correcting those of you who call the failure a "coil" problem. There is really no need for anybody to know what the individual components are called. 

Foggy


----------



## nstueve

foggysail said:


> I cannot help you with your Dolmar problem. I don't have a saw [ and no--- please don't send one to me :- ) ] and I really don't have the time to dig into the problem.
> Foggy


awe shucks!


----------



## axlr8

i would love to do this to nates saw, but all i have for electronic ignitions are SEM that are untested. I threw 8-9 bosch units in the garbage cause they didnt work last fall..


----------



## nstueve

axlr8 said:


> i would love to do this to nates saw, but all i have for electronic ignitions are SEM that are untested. I threw 8-9 bosch units in the garbage cause they didnt work last fall..


where is the dislike button when you need it


----------



## 54stude

Does anyone know if the husky 2100-2101 Bosch ignition is the same as this one repair wise?


----------



## tallfarmboy

What other coils would this type of repair work on? What brand is the "dogleg" on an 064?


----------



## foggysail

54stude said:


> Does anyone know if the husky 2100-2101 Bosch ignition is the same as this one repair wise?



My guess is that if the ignition is made by Bosch, and if it looks the same, it probably is the same. So if it was me that owned a failed husky, I would try the repair. Once you have dug out the potting material and see if the internal PC board has the same copper run that needs to be cut for the repair, the detailed repair most likely will work. Now of course, it will be up to you to find a mountable location for the new capacitor which is not a big deal.

I do believe some of the huskies do use this ignition.


----------



## deereguy

Joe, Sweet.... Your fix worked well. I mounted the capacitor in the same location that you did. Although, I used a couple ties to anchor the capacitor. It started after a couple of pulls. Didn't seem to be any timing issues. I'm planning on running this saw this afternoon for a couple of hours. rick in Shelton,wa.


----------



## stihlx8

Caps came today. This project will be delayed for a while as spring finally arrived. I will be giving a cap and the directions to a friend to repair his 056. Thanks for all the work on this problem, Foggy


----------



## foggysail

Rick-- thanks for the feedback! Did you have any troubles implementing the fix? Others will certainly be interested especially if they own a "dead" ignition.

Stihlx8--- SPREAD THE WORD!!! Lets see if we can put this ignition issue behind us. AND YOU WILL "GIVE" THE CAPACITOR AWAY???? He must be a good friend..........you could sell that little blue cap for $25 + : - ) 

Foggy


----------



## Matt B

Great solution and write up Foggy! Many thanks. I'm off to buy an 056 mag2 tomm. No longer in fear of the dreaded ignition problem. Cheers, Matt.


----------



## jeff taswelder

Just a quick thought have you had a look at the echo 610evl coil prob,
there would be a lot of people on AS that would be VERY HAPPY with a fix 
Me as well.(mine still works )
for how long is the ?


----------



## foggysail

No, I have not looked at anything other than what I posted in this thread.

But---------IF SOMEBODY SENDS ONE TO ME......................AND NO, NONE, NADA GUARANTEES ON MY PART.......I will take a look at it and that means ripping it apart. I have no way to test it but there are some things I can do though.

Foggy


----------



## jeff taswelder

If mine was stuffed i would post it to you 
but it is fine at moment 
wish i had a spare to send you 
a fix would be fantastic


----------



## teacherman

That is a great fix! Lakeside53 would be proud of you. He fussed around with some of those old Bosch ignitions on some amazing 056 restorations. I sure miss him. The thread is linked in my sig, but the pics are gone due to something that happened on this site a few years ago.

I am lucky to have gotten three 056s, and they are all mag 2s with SEM ignitions. Two of them work, one was in a basket.


----------



## teacherman

Matt B said:


> Great solution and write up Foggy! Many thanks. I'm off to buy an 056 mag2 tomm. No longer in fear of the dreaded ignition problem. Cheers, Matt.


Mag 2 is most likely SEM ignition, which I'm told is also used on the TS 360 concrete saw. I don't know if the fix can work on those as well.


----------



## Matt B

Many thanks teacher man. Ended up finding that out a bit later. Didn't buy that Mag 2, was a lot rougher than it looked in the pictures and the comp was low. The vendor was v evasive with my questions. A better one will hopefully turn up. Cheers, Matt.


----------



## stihlx8

Anymore info on this ignition solution? Success or failure


----------



## deereguy

I have about 6 hours on my first fix the saw is working perfectly. I've gone ahead and modified a 2nd Bosch module and installed in the second saw. It has spark but I'm not finished putting the saw together. At this point the fix looks good. I'm looking forward to about 20 hours run time. If it works well after 20 hours then I would be confident enough to say: This is a good option to repairing the Bosch.

The repair method described by foggy is what I've been doing with minor minor changes. The soldering is not my strong suit. I messed the second one up but still seems to work (broke off the leg closest to the side but the solder to the farther side seemed to hold and work. The soldering iron I was using was larger than appropriate for electronic soldering. Yippee now I need a new tool, soldering station. Yes, I have one on order. deereguy


----------



## foggysail

CONGRATS DEEREGUY!!!!

WE NEED THAT FEEDBACK, BE IT POSITIVE OR NEGATIVE! I used to have a sign on my desk as an engineering manager for younger engineers to focus on. It simply stated "YOU CANNOT ******** PHYSICS!"

The point being that one cannot just claim something ...or at least should not...... works when physics prevents it from working under the conditions described. Yes, there is a fix BUT IT NEEDS FEEDBACK!!!! WHERE ARE ALL THE OTHERS WHO WERE SO ANXIOUS FOR A FIX???

Come guys..... if you have failed ignitions, try the fix and report back. It the thing fails in the long run, the problem should then be re-examined!

Foggy


----------



## jeff taswelder

> Come guys..... if you have failed ignitions, try the fix and report back. It the thing fails in the long run, the problem should then be re-examined!


Well said Foggy 
just waiting on that my self.
opcorn:opcorn:


----------



## scallywag

I'm waiting on a pair of the MKP 378 Capacitors, the first one will be going in to a 056 magnum that has a failed SEM ignition, the saw will be fitted out with a complete Bosch ignition from a 056 Super.


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## hotshot

This very well may be the original patent filed for that Bosch CD module, it would be close.

Item 1 is the storage cap.


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## veljko

54stude said:


> Does anyone know if the husky 2100-2101 Bosch ignition is the same as this one repair wise?


Yes they are.


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## foggysail

For what its worth--- I have over 10 hours operating my modified ignition. NO problems with anything! My ignition fix worked flawlessly and the saw did get HOT with our weather being what it is.

Foggy


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## k_kindig11

Does anyone have an updated eBay link to this part? I can't find the 10pack of this part anymore. Was gonna buy some to put away just in case.


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## foggysail

I looked, the part is no longer for sale on EBay. There is a comparable part but the guy is selling a bag of 80 pieces for $79. There is another part that should work. It is not pulse rated so it might heat up but I really think you should give it a try.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/151120070175?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

The cost is about $3 for 10 pieces plus about $2 for shipping.

Don't screw around.........ORDER IT!

Foggy


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## k_kindig11

You hit the nail on the head... I screwed around and lost out. Better get on it this time.


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## stihlx8

I might loan you one


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## scallywag

k_kindig11 said:


> You hit the nail on the head... I screwed around and lost out. Better get on it this time.


 I thought i was buying two Capacitors!......Duh, Listing was for two packs of ten!... Now i have twenty of the things!...PM me your details and I'll send you one.


----------



## hotshot

foggysail said:


> I looked, the part is no longer for sale on EBay. There is a comparable part but the guy is selling a bag of 80 pieces for $79. There is another part that should work. It is not pulse rated so it might heat up but I really think you should give it a try.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/151120070175?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
> 
> The cost is about $3 for 10 pieces plus about $2 for shipping.
> 
> Don't screw around.........ORDER IT!
> 
> Foggy



Foggy,
IDK if you've had time to look at Stihl's-Bosch patent on post #96, but what's the purpose of the optional RLC circuit at the bottom of the schematic? Are they trying to limit voltage based on RPM?


----------



## foggysail

k_kindig11 said:


> You hit the nail on the head... I screwed around and lost out. Better get on it this time.




The original capacitor is a known quantity! If the guys here in the forum are offering one to you.......TAKE IT! The caps I provided the pointer to last night should work but they are not pulse rated, I also did not check the mechanical dimensions so they might be the same size or larger physically.

Foggy

EDIT:

Ruger22 found some on EBay that I missed.........of course if someone on the forum gives you one, that's even better.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-NEW-Phil...00102&prg=20140212121249&rkt=4&#ht_2390wt_617


----------



## foggysail

hotshot said:


> Foggy,
> IDK if you've had time to look at Stihl's-Bosch patent on post #96, but what's the purpose of the optional RLC circuit at the bottom of the schematic? Are they trying to limit voltage based on RPM?




Sure, I will try to explain the circuit....from memory, I don't don't have the schematic in front of me. Notice first the flywheel. It contains 3 magnets, two of which are placed on the body with their magnetic poles in series + on one magnet connects to the - on the other. The third magnet is oriented just opposite with its polarity - to +.

The two magnets in series are used to charge the capacitor that we focused on during the repair. As this pair of magnets rotate near the charging coil.....NOT THE COIL THAT HAS THE SPARK PLUG wire attached, it develops a sine wave. That will generate a current that will flow into the charging capacitor. But remember a sine wave changes for 0 to its positive high and then falls back to 0 and continues to a negative high and then back to 0.

This wave form charges the energy storage capacitor... the same one we replaced. Now remember, I said the current goes + and then -. The designer has placed a diode in series with the charging capacitor to prevent the negative voltage from allowing a negative current that would then discharge the just charged capacitor. So that energy capacitor retains its charge until something can discharge it.

Notice there is a switch (SCR) in the circuit that when turned on, discharges the energy storage capacitor allowing current to flow from it and through the high voltage transformer and back to the capacitor completing the circuit. Now the capacitor has to wait until the next revolution of the flywheel to recharge.

OK, but WHAT TURNS ON THE SWITCH???

That third magnet forces a current through the capacitor/resistor pair thereby charging that capacitor. Note that a capacitor can be thought of as a bucket into which electrons can flow. Electrons can also flow through the resistor obeying the equation I= V/R. But the capacitor has no V at teh start of the charging so no current flows through the resistor at the start. The resistor controls the time it takes for the capacitor to charge along with magnet. When the charge on the capacitor reaches about 1-2 volts it provides the 'trigger' to fire the SCR--- turns it on as a switch. The resistor will allow the capacitor to completely discharge for the next cycle to repeat the SCR firing. If I remember correctly there is also a diode in the charging loop here to prevent the magnet from discharging the trigger capacitor, the resistor does that as I just mentioned.

A little complicated but hope this helps.

Foggy


----------



## hotshot

Thanks for the reply, the schematic is attached in post #96, you can pull it up if you are logged in. I understand the SCR & cap functions just fine, but not the RLC circuit at the bottom. The RLC are normally used for harmonics, and a chainsaw's RPM are all over the place..


----------



## foggysail

hotshot said:


> Thanks for the reply, the schematic is attached in post #96, you can pull it up if you are logged in. I understand the SCR & cap functions just fine, but not the RLC circuit at the bottom. The RLC are normally used for harmonics, and a chainsaw's RPM are all over the place..



Where do you see an RLC circuit at the bottom??? What I see is a zener diode (19) in series with diode (18) . In parallel with the zener is a dotted combo of a variable resistor (20) and capacitor (21). The dots mean those components may or may not be in the circuit. And the ignition I ripped apart does not have them.

Foggy


----------



## stihlx8

Sure glad we have smart guys on here to help us out. Good explanation foggy I even understand it I think.


----------



## hotshot

foggysail said:


> Where do you see an RLC circuit at the bottom??? What I see is a zener diode (19) in series with diode (18) . In parallel with the zener is a dotted combo of a variable resistor (20) and capacitor (21). The dots mean those components may or may not be in the circuit. And the ignition I ripped apart does not have them.
> 
> Foggy



Thanks, that's the one. Now I see/understand that it's an option.

So either the Zener(19) *or* the RC(20,21) in parallel.


----------



## foggysail

stihlx8 said:


> Sure glad we have smart guys on here to help us out. Good explanation foggy I even understand it I think.




AND THANK YOU FOR THE 4 ATTABOYS!!!

Foggy


----------



## ruger22

Hello new to the forum joined because I found this fix. So here is the story behind my saw bought a very nice 056 hardly used thing ran for 5 min overheat then died. Took it apart not knowing this was a common problem with these saws found a bad shut off wire replaced it thought all was good and reassembled. Same thing so started researching and found this was a problem on these. Bought a used bosch ignition off ebay and the guy said he was sure it was good installed the thing only had very weak spark would spark across my ignition tester but not the plug. Sent that ignition back. Then found and tried the fix foggysail came up with on my original bosch ignition every thing looked great when I was done, I was so confident that would fix it I reassembled saw pulled it a couple times took off run for about 15 sec then it was like I shut the switch off. Now it wont spark across the plug but will spark across my ignition tester but looks like a weak spark. Disassembled the saw and cannot find a problem. Wondering if the capacitor could have got burnt up and if so how to test it or if there is any other ideas to try. Thanks for any advice and thanks to foggy for spending so much time on fix and sharing it.


----------



## foggysail

ruger22 said:


> Hello new to the forum joined because I found this fix. So here is the story behind my saw bought a very nice 056 hardly used thing ran for 5 min overheat then died. Took it apart not knowing this was a common problem with these saws found a bad shut off wire replaced it thought all was good and reassembled. Same thing so started researching and found this was a problem on these. Bought a used bosch ignition off ebay and the guy said he was sure it was good installed the thing only had very weak spark would spark across my ignition tester but not the plug. Sent that ignition back. Then found and tried the fix foggysail came up with on my original bosch ignition every thing looked great when I was done, I was so confident that would fix it I reassembled saw pulled it a couple times took off run for about 15 sec then it was like I shut the switch off. Now it wont spark across the plug but will spark across my ignition tester but looks like a weak spark. Disassembled the saw and cannot find a problem. Wondering if the capacitor could have got burnt up and if so how to test it or if there is any other ideas to try. Thanks for any advice and thanks to foggy for spending so much time on fix and sharing it.




Anything is possible in wonderland! This is always true although I doubt the capacitor crooked unless you installed the voltage rating is less than 400 vdc. Did you use the specified capacitor?

Here are things I believe you should look for. The first is that stinking switch wire AND THE SWITCH itself. If you notice the pictures you will see that I went to lengths to replace the switch wire. After replacing the wire I found the switch is open and the saw does not shut down. Now of course, that is the opposite of your problem.

It appears you have to pull the ignition apart again. I will not suggest what to do with the shut off switch because of implied safety concerns. I cut the wire right out of the circuit at the ignition block. No more problems from that. You can thank German environmentalists for that junk wire. At least one high end German car manufactured around 1997-98 used that supposed "green"wire for the engine wiring. The wonderful environmental BS has resulted in major costly repairs. The wire self destructs in a heated surrounding. My saw shuts down fast using the choke.

Further suggestions .... make sure your soldering is sound and done EXACTLY as shown in my pictures. Make sure the spark plug wire is retained in the coil.

Now because you need to pull the ignition apart.............. I WILL GIVE YOU MY GUESS AS TO WHAT YOUR PROBLEM IS and in the king's English, I DOUBT IT IS ELECTRONIC RELATED!!!!!!!!!!! Now of course I could be wrong but beeeeen there dooone that!

I am going to guess your problem is the shaft key..forgot what the name for those half moon keys is. But could you pull the flywheel and get back to the forum and let me know if the key is sheared or bent even a tiny bit? If you do not have the flywheel REALLY TIGHTENED, THAT KEY WILL SHEAR. Sometimes when you pull on the starter rope, the saw's piston doesn't even move.

In summary--

1. Make sure you have the right capacitor
2. Make sure your spark plug wire is firmly mounted into the HV pulse transformer
3. Can't tell you what to do with the switch wire, just told you what I did to mine
4. Check the half moon shaft key
5. Let us know how you're making out

Foggy


EDIT: I should have read your entire post. I see that you have pulled the saw apart. How does the key look???? General comment on a weak spark. When you crank by hand, you possibly can have a weak spark. The faster the magnets pass through the pole pieces, the higher the charge voltage will be resulting in greater spark. But the saw should start fine even with what seems to be a weak spark


----------



## hotshot

Getting ready to try this "fixed" ignition module out on an 041 Super series. Bench tested fine on an 045 chassis while spinning the crank with a variable speed drill, so the SCR is still working! Forgot to check the shut off switch though... Hope it won't blow my muffler & intake cover off like Foggys!


----------



## scallywag

Foggy, keep up the good work!......Your efforts here are appreciated by many!!


----------



## ruger22

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-NEW-Phil...00102&prg=20140212121249&rkt=4&#ht_2390wt_617

This is the capacitor I bought on ebay it was a different link then what you posted but I read over it comparing it to yours and it seemed to be the same thought they just created a new auction because they were charging a dollar more for them.

The kill switch wire is a new one and I have checked for continuity between it and the body of the ignition and all over the saw could not find any.

I will try to look at the saw more today if I get some time. thanks for the help


----------



## foggysail

Yes, the capacitors are just fine! Please check the shaft key.


----------



## k_kindig11

I've been in contact with the seller of the replacement parts. Here's what he said:

Do you absolutely require 400 volts? I do have the Arcotronics 1uF 250 volt polypropylene caps.
I will check with my suppliers and see if I can get any more of the 1uf 400V polypropylene. Is polypropylene mandatory? Do they have to be Philips brand?
Let me know how I can help and I'll do my best.


----------



## k_kindig11

I guess a few questions from him that maybe the creator of the thread can answer. It's way over my head...


----------



## foggysail

k_kindig11 said:


> I've been in contact with the seller of the replacement parts. Here's what he said:
> 
> Do you absolutely require 400 volts? I do have the Arcotronics 1uF 250 volt polypropylene caps.
> I will check with my suppliers and see if I can get any more of the 1uf 400V polypropylene. Is polypropylene mandatory? Do they have to be Philips brand?
> Let me know how I can help and I'll do my best.




NO! DO NOT PURCHASE ANYTHING LESS THAN 400V! I didn't want to make my fix a big, ongoing project so I did not install a capacitor, spin the crankshaft and place my oscilloscope on the capacitor to see how high the charging voltage gets to. And sure, maybe a lesser voltage rated capacitor will work just fine until the dielectric finally fails. Further, the original Bosch ignition used a 400V capacitor. AND NO, THEY DO NOT HAVE TO BE MADE BY PHILIPS.

Some of the members here in the forum have spares from their purchases. Maybe you can work out a deal with someone.

But in the mean time... this should work OK.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/400V-0-82uF...823?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item484ff984bf

The issues with the cap are the voltage rating, physical size for the needed capacitance, capacitance value ranging from 0.8 to 1UF and dielectric losses. Polyproppylene dielectrics have less dielectric losses which result in less internal heating. Film capacitors are better for pulse current than metalized film. The difference here is with film, there are 2 aluminum films sandwiching the dielectric where as the metalized film is usually a metal sprayed onto both sides of the dielectric. Obvious advantage of the metalized film is smaller physical size. And pulse rating refers to the the rapid charging along with the rapid discharge currents.


----------



## Paul Brodie

foggysail said:


> Many here in the forum may have read my recent posts regarding the Bosch electronic ignition. My 056 pooped the bed or better still make that my lawn while I was in the middle of clearing trees. And yes, problem was no spark. I have also read numerous posts stating that the cause is "coil opening while hot." Well folks, I doubt its either of the magnetic devices in the ignition needed for it to function. My advice....save your money, do not replace the high voltage transformer or the charging inductor. They are the least likely to fail but my saw's component that did fail operated on the border of component death. Just a matter of time before they all fail.
> 
> The problem resides in the potted electronics, that area between the charging inductor and the high voltage transformer. AND THEY CAN BE REPAIRED! NO so called little fix all boxes to take the place of the original ignition, no retiming, just bright blue spark or at least that is what mine now displays in my basement after repair.
> 
> Now here is a gutcha. If somebody will part with a junk ignition which I need for two reasons, I will take pictures of how to make the repair, provide written instructions and explain which part needs to be purchased. I purchased my part on EBay, bought 10 of them, delivered for under $7 bucks.
> 
> The reason I need another ignition is to verify this is the common fault that folks experience with an ignition failure. I think it is but I feel uncomfortable with a repair sample of 1. The next reason is mine is too ripped apart (it functions though) to take pictures for repair instructions. If anybody in the forum has one they want to contribute to the cause, I gladly pay for shipping and handling. This is a chance for every 045/056 with bad ignitions to get their saw running again. Mine now works.... I have not yet started the saw, just got may parts in this afternoon and rushed to install one. Just too anxious to put that off.
> 
> So there you have it. I believe all the failures or at least the greatest number of them are from the same component failure. Too many guys have seen their great 045/056 go belly up with no practical repair. There is hope guys and it is free but I am not going to even attempt to describe how to make the repair until I can do it properly. And you do not need electrical skills although you will need a soldering iron and solder purchased from Radio Shack or some other place that sells electronic stuff. The repair probably take around an hour to complete. You cannot use plumbing solder. So lets see how much interest this thread excites if any.
> 
> Foggy


Hi,
I am the seller on eBay who had the capacitors you guys were using but I've run out of them. I do have many other caps available but you said they should be pulse rated and that limits things a bit. If you can provide me with more info about the ratings for the caps you need, I can try to get some for you, maybe some much closer to the original or even superior to the original. Unfortunately, .8uF is not a common capacitance at all but I'm sure I can get .68uF, if they will work. The voltage could be difficult. How important is the 400 volt rating? Will 250 volt caps work? Also, is physical size a factor? I believe you said that the ones I was selling on eBay were a bit larger than the original. Finally, do they have to be polypropylene or will polyester caps work?


----------



## hotshot

Paul Brodie said:


> Hi,
> I am the seller on eBay who had the capacitors you guys were using but I've run out of them. I do have many other caps available but you said they should be pulse rated and that limits things a bit. If you can provide me with more info about the ratings for the caps you need, I can try to get some for you, maybe some much closer to the original or even superior to the original. Unfortunately, .8uF is not a common capacitance at all but I'm sure I can get .68uF, if they will work. The voltage could be difficult. How important is the 400 volt rating? Will 250 volt caps work? Also, is physical size a factor? I believe you said that the ones I was selling on eBay were a bit larger than the original. Finally, do they have to be polypropylene or will polyester caps work?



Paul,

Welcome aboard, & thanks for posting. 

Yes, they need to be 400 volt rated minimum, polypropylene, and 1.0 microfarad is fine. These need to be pulse rated caps, minimum of 250 cycles per second. The smaller the better, given the specs, as there isn't much room to mount them.


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## foggysail

Paul Brodie said:


> Hi,
> I am the seller on eBay who had the capacitors you guys were using but I've run out of them. I do have many other caps available but you said they should be pulse rated and that limits things a bit. If you can provide me with more info about the ratings for the caps you need, I can try to get some for you, maybe some much closer to the original or even superior to the original. Unfortunately, .8uF is not a common capacitance at all but I'm sure I can get .68uF, if they will work. The voltage could be difficult. How important is the 400 volt rating? Will 250 volt caps work? Also, is physical size a factor? I believe you said that the ones I was selling on eBay were a bit larger than the original. Finally, do they have to be polypropylene or will polyester caps work?




HEY!!!!!!!! I AM THE GUY WHO PUT THE FOCUS ON YOUR CAPACITORS!!! DO I GET A CUT :- ) ???

Seriously -- they need to be 400vdc and although they should be pulse rated for greater reliability it is possible that a plain Jane polypropylene metalized film will work. And yes I understand that a 0.8 is not a standard value but 0.82 is. When I gave the value of 0.8 uf it was meant only to establish a range.What I hoped to provide to the guys here in the forum was a simple repair procedure they could do themselves and have a high degree of confidence their repair works in their saws. You can view the repair pictorials a few pages back here in this forum thread to see what I am asking from these guys to do their repairs.

A 0.68uf MIGHT work. But if it does not the guy doing the repair won't have enough knowledge in electronics to understand the capacitor's stored energy was inadequate. They don't want to become technicians, they just want their tools to work, in this case the tool is a chain saw. Finally your question on size. Take a look at the pictures. There is little latitude with sizes.

I have not put a scope on the capacitor but my guess is the discharge time to develop the HV for the spark plug occurs in about 10-100 useconds. Of course this is determined by the leakage inductance of the high voltage pulse transformer and the discharge capacitor's capacitance. The saw can scream upwards to 12000 RPM or 200 pulses/second. Not a tough job for a polypropylene capacitor.

It becomes a guessing game as to whether or not polyester would work as well as polypropylene considering the higher dielectric losses in polyester.

Foggy


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## Paul Brodie

foggysail said:


> HEY!!!!!!!! I AM THE GUY WHO PUT THE FOCUS ON YOUR CAPACITORS!!! DO I GET A CUT :- ) ???
> 
> Seriously -- they need to be 400vdc and although they should be pulse rated for greater reliability it is possible that a plain Jane polypropylene metalized film will work. And yes I understand that a 0.8 is not a standard value but 0.82 is. When I gave the value of 0.8 uf it was meant only to establish a range.What I hoped to provide to the guys here in the forum was a simple repair procedure they could do themselves and have a high degree of confidence their repair works in their saws. You can view the repair pictorials a few pages back here in this forum thread to see what I am asking from these guys to do their repairs.
> 
> A 0.68uf MIGHT work. But if it does not the guy doing the repair won't have enough knowledge in electronics to understand the capacitor's stored energy was inadequate. They don't want to become technicians, they just want their tools to work, in this case the tool is a chain saw. Finally your question on size. Take a look at the pictures. There is little latitude with sizes.
> 
> I have not put a scope on the capacitor but my guess is the discharge time to develop the HV for the spark plug occurs in about 10-100 useconds. Of course this is determined by the leakage inductance of the high voltage pulse transformer and the discharge capacitor's capacitance. The saw can scream upwards to 12000 RPM or 200 pulses/second. Not a tough job for a polypropylene capacitor.
> 
> It becomes a guessing game as to whether or not polyester would work as well as polypropylene considering the higher dielectric losses in polyester.
> 
> Foggy


I would be concerned about heat buildup with polyester caps. I know that with most high frequency applications, polypropylene is much better and preferred over polyester. What would be best are polycarbonate capacitors, if you could find any. They are superior to polypropylene and used to be used in high heat automotive applications but are no longer manufactured.
I have been checking my sources but haven't had any luck finding anything appropriate. If I do, I'll post what I find. I just thought of a possible solution. You can use X2 rated or Y2 rated safety capacitors. They are usually rated 250VAC or 275V AC, which is equivalent to at least 400VDC, which is what the caps I was selling are rated. Since X2 safety caps are built to be extra robust and have to be able to sit across the power input of electronic equipment almost constantly, even though they are polyester, they might very well work fine in this application, especially since they are also self healing. I do have some high quality EVOX RIFA 1uF 250VAC X2 safety caps that are polyester but I only have 7 of them left and they are more expensive than the caps I was selling before and they are just a little bit larger. I usually sell these types in pairs. If it were me, though, I would want to be sure whatever I used was going to last. I would hate to have to go back in and repeat a repair job. Good luck on all your repairs!


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## jeff taswelder

just went to the shop and got me some more opcorn:


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## foggysail

Hi Paul-- (GUYS-- THIS IS POST SOMEWHAT TECHNICAL, please don't get awed if you read it)

First Paul, thanks for joining in and offering help to those here in the forum searching the elusive capacitor. Some who read these post have electronic experience, others could care only about getting their broken saws functioning.

I do agree that 250vac should be reliable at 400vdc. As to polyester... I have mentioned that it has a higher dielectric loss so it should not be considered. The only recommendation I can support is to use a capacitor that has a polypropylene dielectric rather than risk continued failures that the guys in this forum have experienced with this particular chain saw. If you checked the photos I submitted as a repair aid you will see the replacement capacitor is connected in an area that is exposed to the saw's cooling air stream so I doubt a polypropylene capacitor will ever see 105C which is the upper temperature limit for that material. 

I really want to keep this as simple as possible for the guys who are trying to breath new life into saw that was once considered too problematic and expensive for repairs. Further, it is not me doing the purchasing/repairs. I am providing engineering guidance to them asking only "thanks" in return.

In post #120 I posted a pointer to some 0.82uf 400vdc capacitors for those interested.

Foggy


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## ruger22

Update, I removed the epoxy that I put in place of the potting where I soldered the yellow wire to the bus. It was a bit damp under the epoxy do to the flux I used so I cleaned that out with alcohol good, let it dry and this time sealed it with high temp silicone. I also went ahead and replaced the capacitor with a new one. I reassembled the saw and it started and run good, run it for at least 15 min under load which is way longer than it has ever ran. So far it looks like the fix is going to work! I hope to run it for a while in the weeks to come if I get time. I'm not sure what fixed it but at least its running for now.

Hats off to foggy for all his help thank you.

P.S. I would highly recommend trying this fix It may look a little difficult but its not to bad, especially if you have some one to help hold the wires while soldering. Thanks again foggy


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## arrow13

foggysail said:


> NO! DO NOT PURCHASE ANYTHING LESS THAN 400V! I didn't want to make my fix a big, ongoing project so I did not install a capacitor, spin the crankshaft and place my oscilloscope on the capacitor to see how high the charging voltage gets to. And sure, maybe a lesser voltage rated capacitor will work just fine until the dielectric finally fails. Further, the original Bosch ignition used a 400V capacitor. AND NO, THEY DO NOT HAVE TO BE MADE BY PHILIPS.
> 
> Some of the members here in the forum have spares from their purchases. Maybe you can work out a deal with someone.
> 
> But in the mean time... this should work OK.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/400V-0-82uF...823?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item484ff984bf
> 
> The issues with the cap are the voltage rating, physical size for the needed capacitance, capacitance value ranging from 0.8 to 1UF and dielectric losses. Polyproppylene dielectrics have less dielectric losses which result in less internal heating. Film capacitors are better for pulse current than metalized film. The difference here is with film, there are 2 aluminum films sandwiching the dielectric where as the metalized film is usually a metal sprayed onto both sides of the dielectric. Obvious advantage of the metalized film is smaller physical size. And pulse rating refers to the the rapid charging along with the rapid discharge currents.


Thanks foggysail! I've got an 056 that needs this fix. Sure glad your willing to share your talent with all of us. Much appreciated.


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## foggysail

ruger22 said:


> Update, I removed the epoxy that I put in place of the potting where I soldered the yellow wire to the bus. It was a bit damp under the epoxy do to the flux I used so I cleaned that out with alcohol good, let it dry and this time sealed it with high temp silicone. I also went ahead and replaced the capacitor with a new one. I reassembled the saw and it started and run good, run it for at least 15 min under load which is way longer than it has ever ran. So far it looks like the fix is going to work! I hope to run it for a while in the weeks to come if I get time. I'm not sure what fixed it but at least its running for now.
> 
> Hats off to foggy for all his help thank you.
> 
> P.S. I would highly recommend trying this fix It may look a little difficult but its not to bad, especially if you have some one to help hold the wires while soldering. Thanks again foggy




Wondering what happen to you. Encouraging that you have the 'fix' working! The reason I wanted you to look at the half moon key is when I first started my saw after finishing the fix, I didn't have the flywheel tightened to where it should be. Result... my saw screamed to some very high rpm and then quit! You guessed it, I sheared the flywheel key. 

Just a comment about your solder. I highly recommend solder that has self contained flux. Flux is acidic and can cause corrosion. But if you did a good job cleaning it with alcohol, you should be OK.

Good luck with your saw.......put that thing to work!

Foggy


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## foggysail

arrow13 said:


> Thanks foggysail! I've got an 056 that needs this fix. Sure glad your willing to share your talent with all of us. Much appreciated.




Thanks Arrow-- try the fix. As Ruger just posted, it is not a difficult job. Just use a small soldering iron, electronic solder with self contained resin, not plumbing solder that Radio Shack should have. Take your time and you should be able to fix you saw.

Foggy


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## DIYDoug

Paul was selling these capacitors in batches of 10. I missed the opportunity before he sold out. Does anyone else have 9 extras (or at least one) that they would be willing to resell? PM me if you can help. Thank you!


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## hotshot

"Paul was selling these capacitors in batches of 10. I missed the opportunity before he sold out. Does anyone else have 9 extras (or at least one) that they would be willing to resell? PM me if you can help. Thank you!"



I will have an extra one, once I run test "The Fix" CD module (see Post #114) on a saw in the next week or two. Have you already got your ignition cut open & need one right now?


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## DIYDoug

> I will have an extra one, once I run test "The Fix" CD module (see Post #114) on a saw in the next week or two. Have you already got your ignition cut open & need one right now?



I haven't cut open my ignition module yet. I did find some other capacitors online and also found a used ignition module that I'll try first. This saw is consuming me. Oh, the additional effort associated with heating a house with wood. 


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## olyman

Oh, the additional effort associated with heating a house with wood.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]
you wouldn't have it any other way................


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## smdaugherty

I applied this fix to my father-in-law's 045AV this weekend. Prior to the fix his saw would run well until it got hot and then had to cool off before she'd run again. It eventually gave up altogether. I found this fix via Google searching and am glad I did! The saw fired right up after installing the new capacitor. I don't have any hours on the fix yet as I'm waiting for the expoxy to cure. I'm feeling very confident about it though.

Thank you for the repair instructions Foggysail

I have extra MKP 378 capacitors left over from my order. Forum members: feel free to contact me if you are in need of one.


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## foggysail

For those interested-- I came across this part on EBay that should work. Now of course, we know the Phillips cap is the base line.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WIMA-Polypr...SHIPPING-/111284517808?_trksid=p2054897.l4275. Again, quantities may be a problem. I do want to mention that there are numerous electronic suppliers that should be able to provide suitable replacements. 

Good luck all--

Foggy


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## DIYDoug

I'm bought some capacitors to fix my ignition module. Somewhere I came across these, which are 400v, 0.82 uF. Other links point to a 1.0 uF. Will this .82uF work?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/310579397823


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## Riftweaver

Thanks for all the info and hard work guys!


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## foggysail

DIYDoug said:


> I'm bought some capacitors to fix my ignition module. Somewhere I came across these, which are 400v, 0.82 uF. Other links point to a 1.0 uF. Will this .82uF work?
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/310579397823
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




I believe it will work. As to values, this application does not require high point precision values. Give it a try and report back to share your experience with others


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## Harburmaster

I need one of the capacitors for my 056. Is anyone willing to part with one of the originals specified by foggysail? The Phillips cap?
Philips 1uF 400V volt radial polypropylene MKP 378 AC & Pulse capacitors


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## Harburmaster

smdaugherty said:


> I applied this fix to my father-in-law's 045AV this weekend. Prior to the fix his saw would run well until it got hot and then had to cool off before she'd run again. It eventually gave up altogether. I found this fix via Google searching and am glad I did! The saw fired right up after installing the new capacitor. I don't have any hours on the fix yet as I'm waiting for the expoxy to cure. I'm feeling very confident about it though.
> 
> Thank you for the repair instructions Foggysail
> 
> I have extra MKP 378 capacitors left over from my order. Forum members: feel free to contact me if you are in need of one.


Would you sell me one of the caps, please?


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## Harburmaster

hotshot said:


> "Paul was selling these capacitors in batches of 10. I missed the opportunity before he sold out. Does anyone else have 9 extras (or at least one) that they would be willing to resell? PM me if you can help. Thank you!"
> 
> 
> 
> I will have an extra one, once I run test "The Fix" CD module (see Post #114) on a saw in the next week or two. Have you already got your ignition cut open & need one right now?


Would you sell me one of the caps, please?


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## DIYDoug

Harburmaster, I have some extra caps (.82 MF, 400v). I haven't used them yet but others on this forum confirmed that they should work. Private message me your mailing address and I'll send one over to you. 


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## Harburmaster

Milkman31 said:


> Got mine!!!View attachment 347798


Would you sell me one of the caps, please?


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## sd logger

smdaugherty said:


> I applied this fix to my father-in-law's 045AV this weekend. Prior to the fix his saw would run well until it got hot and then had to cool off before she'd run again. It eventually gave up altogether. I found this fix via Google searching and am glad I did! The saw fired right up after installing the new capacitor. I don't have any hours on the fix yet as I'm waiting for the expoxy to cure. I'm feeling very confident about it though.
> 
> Thank you for the repair instructions Foggysail
> 
> I have extra MKP 378 capacitors left over from my order. Forum members: feel free to contact me if you are in need of one.


I'm interested in 2 of your capacitors for 056 stihl and 045 stihl. Thank You email is [email protected]


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## mandomaniac

I have two 056 saws "in need"........found this thread while searching for solutions.
Love my old saws (maybe cause they are old like me?  ) and I would like to get them running again.
Quite amazing repair...hats off to you!
However, guess I am too late to the party to get the 'right' part.
So.....if anyone who was 'in the know' early....and would be willing to help me with a couple of these magic caps.....please let me know!
Thanks!


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## DIYDoug

Mandomaniac, I have two that I can part with. Private-message me your email address and I'll coordinate shipping. 


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## mandomaniac

Great! Sent you message (conversation)


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## mandomaniac

Hey Folks,
It might be of interest to others here that the Philips MKP378 1uf 400V caps are still available.
I tracked down a source....albeit out of country....that offers them. Only about 40 are available......so once again, if anyone wants this particular cap that Foggy has so kindly shown to work....better get what you need. I ordered 4, which hopefully is all I will ever need.
Can't be in a hurry though.....coming from Taiwan! Might add that the price is a bit more....roughly $3/ea shipped.
Can't figure how to post link, but here is item number on eBay: 151241678480
Hope this helps.

Now......a question for Foggy......has this fix been applied to the SEM module 1108 400 0800 or only to the Bosch?
Thanks again for taking point on this and figuring the fix.


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## Mike D

I just built an ignition for a 056 and it is working great. I made the plate with the correct timing and used a Omega module from Napa auto parts. I did the cap fix and had spark but it would not run.


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## hotshot

Mike D said:


> I just built an ignition for a 056 and it is working great. I made the plate with the correct timing and used a Omega module from Napa auto parts. I did the cap fix and had spark but it would not run.


Interesting, and nice first post! Assumed you checked & set the timing at 26° BTDC with a light?

Did you use a points coil & flywheel? I've never seen a Stihl Bosch CDI coil with an orange primary wire like that, kinda stands out like a sore thumb.

I have used some German made Prufrex BZ 18/21 coils on points type Stihl repairs in the past, and they had a light red or orange lead like that. There's some for sale on FleaBay, also used on mopeds


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## mandomaniac

Mike,
Can you share a bit more info on how you did your fix?


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## sd logger

sd logger said:


> I'm interested in 2 of your capacitors for 056 stihl and 045 stihl. Thank You email is [email protected]


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## hotshot

Harburmaster said:


> Would you sell me one of the caps, please?



I had one left, and it's long gone


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## Braintree

Just order the Phillips capacitors from Taiwan from the original post, well least I hope they are. I also ordered the capacitors from post #120 that foggy said would do.
Foggy I'd like to thank you for posting this information for the fix for the 056. This beats the hell of trying to find a Sem flywheel not that there not around there just expensive


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## danfromtas

Yes I fixed one today and seems to work . I purchased 10 off this guy .
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/400687597026?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649


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## Mike D

I found out the coil I had on the fixed bosch was bad. I am glad as the new ignition setup is working great. Yes hotshot that is a different coil I got online. I cut the mounting plates out of aluminum. I set the mounting holes in the corrected offset. I changed the magnets in the Bosch flywheel to keep from having a multifire problem. There is only one North/South magnet in the Bosch flywheel. The problem is there is a ring or magnets all the way around. For this to work voltage must be generated in primary winding of coil at the correct moment of the flywheel’s rotation. To generate the voltage at the exact time I put the piston at TDC and lined up the mark and North/South magnet. The North/South magnet is 180 out from the timing mark. I will have a few of the plates for sale. Here is a video of my dad running the saw for the first time. It needed a little adjustment but ran well and started easy. I will have to find the Caps I have they are pulse rated Polypropylene 1uf 400v. I have taken apart a SEM and it is a big mess But you can see how it was setup. I have pictures of it if anyone might want to see what is under all that epoxy mess. Oh moved the trigger to the outside to keep it cool.


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## hotshot

Mike D said:


> I found out the coil I had on the fixed bosch was bad. I am glad as the new ignition setup is working great. Yes hotshot that is a different coil I got online. I cut the mounting plates out of aluminum. I set the mounting holes in the corrected offset. I changed the magnets in the Bosch flywheel to keep from having a multifire problem. There is only one North/South magnet in the Bosch flywheel. The problem is there is a ring or magnets all the way around. For this to work voltage must be generated in primary winding of coil at the correct moment of the flywheel’s rotation. To generate the voltage at the exact time I put the piston at TDC and lined up the mark and North/South magnet. The North/South magnet is 180 out from the timing mark. I will have a few of the plates for sale. Here is a video of my dad running the saw for the first time. It needed a little adjustment but ran well and started easy. I will have to find the Caps I have they are pulse rated Polypropylene 1uf 400v. I have taken apart a SEM and it is a big mess But you can see how it was setup. I have pictures of it if anyone might want to see what is under all that epoxy mess. Oh moved the trigger to the outside to keep it cool.




Good information and great job on the work around! The points flywheel had four mags also, but you are correct about the N-S polarities being reversed when compared to the CDI FWs. The CDIs had one North & 3 South magnets.

You should post up a picture of the dissected SEM G/A type, I've got four failed ones that are waiting for Foggysail to do "THE FIX VERSION II".


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## Mike D

The SEM is way to hard to get apart to fix. I have been in electronics for 25 years and there is no good way to get it apart to fix it. It is just not worth the time. I can just build a new ignition and have parts that I can still buy. The new ignition has cut 4 cords of wood so far and is working great. I hope someone could figure out a way to remove the epoxy without destroying the whole thing. I am working on another ignition that will work with the SEM flywheel.


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## mobile_bob

first post from a newbie
my trek for a large (to me) saw led me to a very low hours 056super that the owner rarely uses and while he is deciding whether or not to sell it, he loaned it to me to rip apart a 48" silver maple,,,

really like the saw, but as fate would have it... no joy

it will run for 3 minutes under load, then its like a switch is shut off.
cool for 10 and back to work for another 3, wash rinse repeat

thank God for this site!

now i can make an offer on the saw, and have some reason to think it can be repaired.

cool beans as the kids say!

thanks
bob g
ps. will this item replace the bosch system?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Elektronisc...gnition-coil-/200547461574?fromMakeTrack=true


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## Harburmaster

I just attempted the fix.
I used a wide tip on my soldering iron to remove the epoxy. It worked GREAT! fairly quickly and very controled.
I was sooooo hopeful.
I took pictures and video of the repair.
I did the repair as described, but when I went to start it... still no spark.
I had previously checked the coil and had ~2.5k ohms. What I expected.
I have another cap coming in from the guy in Asia. It should be here later this month.
I'll try again.
I'm sooooo bumbed.
Dave


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## Mike D

Here is the number for Mouser Electronics Capacitor. Vishay part #594-2222-378-52105 series 378 mkp. This is 1uf pulse rated @ $2.89. mobile_bob that is the replacement for a points system.


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## Mike D

hotshot can you tell me how you you check the timing on the flywheel side.


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## hotshot

Mike D said:


> hotshot can you tell me how you check the timing on the flywheel side.



Mike, it's a royal PITA but here's how I do it on the 045/056 saws. Get another person to help, because you'll need three hands. Watch your fingers around the fins when you're spinning it, as you have to hold the saw down and run the timing light and run a drill or air tool all at the same time...

Start by finding TDC with a piston stop & mark the flywheel and case for TDC, anywhere convenient. Move the FW slowly back and forth, make a light mark at both the stops, and the TDC is exactly in between. I use white chalk on the FW, so the marks are probably 2° wide or more...but I can see it. Back the FW off (CW) 26° with a mounted degree wheel, and then mark the case again for the 26° BTDC point, using the one mark on the FW. You can also print a reduced size degree wheel off on paper, then cut it out & center it over the FW nut to get really close. Tape it down on the sides to get to your 26° BTDC mark, then tear it off.

Get a timing light and hook it up to a 12V battery and the saws spark plug wire. Pull the plug, ground it (I use a clip on spark tester), then turn the kill switch ON. Make sure the choke is OFF too.

Take a drill and spin the FW nut CCW at the drills top speed (drill put in reverse) and then check the FW & 26° marks alignments with the timing light. Remember to torque the FW nut down hard before, or you will just spin it off.

If the FW mark is showing/strobing below (before) the 26° case mark then you are advanced, and if it's above (after) it you are retarded. Adjustments are like most Chevy distributors, so loosen the screws and barely move the stator CW to advance, or CCW to retard it. The later timing lights have a degree dial on the back, but mine is old school. Mark the stator plate edge and the case with a punch when you get it set, so you can put it right back if you take the coil off later.

Stihl service manual states that the saw should be running at 6000 RPM or better, but these old ignitions have no auto advance features. They also check it on the clutch side with a bar stud mounted fixture, but you're going to be popping the flywheel off & on for final adjusting, so why not have the starter cover already off?

Technically, there will be less of a delay on sparking the faster the saw runs, but using a drill has always been accurate.


----------



## mobile_bob

Mike D said:


> Here is the number for Mouser Electronics Capacitor. Vishay part #594-2222-378-52105 series 378 mkp. This is 1uf pulse rated @ $2.89. mobile_bob that is the replacement for a points system.




thanks Mike D. my german isn't so gut! i figured out it was for the point system a few hours after posting.


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## mobile_bob

well i finally took the time to take this saw down, and the insides look like they just came off the assembly line, squeaky clean, bright and shiny under the flywheel. i did note the kill switch wire insulation failing so i just clipped it off and reassembled, just to check for sure that was not the problem.... it wasn't.

after determining the unit is actually a bosch cdi and not a SEC (i am not a saw tech and have never seen either) i did two things.

first i went ahead and ordered the replacement from the german ebay seller, the one made to replace the bosch/ducati cdi unit. figured i would have it in the next couple weeks or so.

second i found a source for the 1mf 400volt polypropylene pulse rated capacitors, and placed an order, should have 10 of them next week sometime.

while i am waiting for the german aftermarket part to arrive, i will go the repair route on the original unit, and see how it works out... if it works out i guess i will just put the replacement on the shelf for the day the original goes out.

we all know how that works! if you have a replacement on the shelf the original no matter how patched up it may be will run forever.

i really like the saw, especially after finding out the original owner only used it to cut down about 20 tree's over a 25year period. it was used as a felling saw and he did all the limbing with a smaller saw. he told me he thought he would use it on larger tree's but really had very little use for it after he bought it, it spent almost all its time under his bench in the shop. the second owner didn't have it long and used it to clear some tree's after a flood, and very little else.

so i am thinking it will probably last me for the rest of my life, for what i have in mind for it, that is if i can get the spark back reliably.

bob g


----------



## Daniel Latner

foggysail said:


> View attachment 348024
> 
> 
> 
> I forgot to show how the ignition looks and how I ran the wires. ALSO--- I FORGOT TO MENTION THAT HOLE YOU DUG OUT OF THE POTTING, FILL IT WITH EPOXY OR YOUR CAULKING STUFF. And be sure that yellow wire is tight and not loose where it can hit the flywheel.
> 
> Again-- best of luck----
> 
> 
> Foggy


Any help on setting the timing on my 45 Super? I followed your instructions on this fix, and can't get my saw to crank. Have spark (felt with finger) but no fire. I have good fuel. I don't know where to begin on adjusting the assembly. Getting tired of tearing the thing apart every time it doesn't work.


----------



## foggysail

Hotshot has posted how to time these saws, I avoided timing mine because it was a BPITA job. I just set the ignition assembly to the mid point and things seem OK. The first setting I made I had the timing too retarded. Saw ran for awhile and then back fired through the carburetor along with blowing off the muffler.

If you have the capacitor fix behind you, MAKE SURE the shut down wire has insulation on it or it can/will short and prevent starting. I cut mine off. Also the crappy switch used for shut down has a high failure rate. Mine failed open meaning it will not shut off the engine, possible I guess they can fail shut which will kill the spark. I use the choke to shut my saw down.


----------



## mobile_bob

ok, coming back on topic...

i ordered 10 capacitors off ebay, and received a bag of china's finest.

i think i will go ahead and do the repair to the oem bosch ignition module
and put it back in. just to see how this repair works.

then i will have the aftermarket unit on the shelf as a backup.

bob g


----------



## Daniel Latner

hotshot said:


> Mike, it's a royal PITA but here's how I do it on the 045/056 saws. Get another person to help, because you'll need three hands. Watch your fingers around the fins when you're spinning it, as you have to hold the saw down and run the timing light and run a drill or air tool all at the same time...
> 
> Start by finding TDC with a piston stop & mark the flywheel and case for TDC, anywhere convenient. Move the FW slowly back and forth, make a light mark at both the stops, and the TDC is exactly in between. I use white chalk on the FW, so the marks are probably 2° wide or more...but I can see it. Back the FW off (CW) 26° with a mounted degree wheel, and then mark the case again for the 26° BTDC point, using the one mark on the FW. You can also print a reduced size degree wheel off on paper, then cut it out & center it over the FW nut to get really close. Tape it down on the sides to get to your 26° BTDC mark, then tear it off.
> 
> Get a timing light and hook it up to a 12V battery and the saws spark plug wire. Pull the plug, ground it (I use a clip on spark tester), then turn the kill switch ON. Make sure the choke is OFF too.
> 
> Take a drill and spin the FW nut CCW at the drills top speed (drill put in reverse) and then check the FW & 26° marks alignments with the timing light. Remember to torque the FW nut down hard before, or you will just spin it off.
> 
> If the FW mark is showing/strobing below (before) the 26° case mark then you are advanced, and if it's above (after) it you are retarded. Adjustments are like most Chevy distributors, so loosen the screws and barely move the stator CW to advance, or CCW to retard it. The later timing lights have a degree dial on the back, but mine is old school. Mark the stator plate edge and the case with a punch when you get it set, so you can put it right back if you take the coil off later.
> 
> Stihl service manual states that the saw should be running at 6000 RPM or better, but these old ignitions have no auto advance features. They also check it on the clutch side with a bar stud mounted fixture, but you're going to be popping the flywheel off & on for final adjusting, so why not have the starter cover already off?
> 
> Technically, there will be less of a delay on sparking the faster the saw runs, but using a drill has always been accurate.


The specs I have say 2.7mm(0.108 in.) before TDC. Is that the same as 26 degrees? I finished timing my saw, and still no fire. Have good fuel, and have no bad ground wire. Maybe my coil isn't putting out enough spark? How much should it put out?


----------



## Daniel Latner

foggysail said:


> Hotshot has posted how to time these saws, I avoided timing mine because it was a BPITA job. I just set the ignition assembly to the mid point and things seem OK. The first setting I made I had the timing too retarded. Saw ran for awhile and then back fired through the carburetor along with blowing off the muffler.
> 
> If you have the capacitor fix behind you, MAKE SURE the shut down wire has insulation on it or it can/will short and prevent starting. I cut mine off. Also the crappy switch used for shut down has a high failure rate. Mine failed open meaning it will not shut off the engine, possible I guess they can fail shut which will kill the spark. I use the choke to shut my saw down.


I'm not getting enough spark to fire my saw. I used Hotshot's method on the timing, and had enough spark to run my timing light. Put everything back together and can't see any spark on my plug. My bosch unit has "2 204 211 040" stamped on the coil. Is the coil possibly the problem? I have a spare on hand, is there a good way to test the spare to possibly replace the one on my saw with?


----------



## foggysail

Yes--- I saw a post on EBay by somebody who guaranteed to repair modules that are sent to him----$100! Much less expensive to follow the mod which at most will cost less than $5.


----------



## foggysail

Dan--

Tell us about your capacitor. What is marked on it and where did you get it from. As to the coil (high voltage pulse transformer) itself failing..... anything can fail. But the big 'but' here is the common failure is the capacitor. If you did everything as described here in the thread including using the capacitor or a suitable type and value, your ignition should work.

Did you cut off the wire dedicated for the shut down switch?

And as to testing..... I highly recommend NOT securing the flywheel other than tightening the holding nut just enough to pull the starter rope with the plug removed. And a silly question.....is the flywheel half moon key (I forgot the correct name for the thing) in place? After you get a strong spark, then and only then should you sock the thing together.

Also make sure the spark plug wire fits properly into the coil. In general, check your workmanship. To my knowledge yours is the first not to get up and go after the fix


----------



## Daniel Latner

foggysail said:


> Dan--
> 
> Tell us about your capacitor. What is marked on it and where did you get it from. As to the coil (high voltage pulse transformer) itself failing..... anything can fail. But the big 'but' here is the common failure is the capacitor. If you did everything as described here in the thread including using the capacitor or a suitable type and value, your ignition should work.
> 
> Did you cut off the wire dedicated for the shut down switch?
> 
> And as to testing..... I highly recommend NOT securing the flywheel other than tightening the holding nut just enough to pull the starter rope with the plug removed. And a silly question.....is the flywheel half moon key (I forgot the correct name for the thing) in place? After you get a strong spark, then and only then should you sock the thing together.
> 
> Also make sure the spark plug wire fits properly into the coil. In general, check your workmanship. To my knowledge yours is the first not to get up and go after the fix


My capacitor http://www.ebay.com/itm/111284585730?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT it's hard to read the markings but this is what it looks like: 47n J 630v 378 MKP/MKP on the side it says BC HQ 0026

Here is the description from the seller on ebay:
2pcs BFC237864473 MKP 378 AC Pulse Film Poly Cap 0.047UF 630VDC 47nF Radial P15

I cut off the kill switch wire. But I think, now that I've reviewed the print on the cap, maybe that is my problem.


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## foggysail

Dan--

*Did you read thoroughly how to install and what is needed for the fix?????*


Your capacitor is a 0.047ufarad! A 1 ufarad or close that value is needed. YOU PURCHASED THE WRONG CAPACITOR!

Send a PM to me with your address. I will send a proper capacitor to you. And FOLLOW the modification directions!


----------



## Daniel Latner

foggysail said:


> Dan--
> 
> *Did you read thoroughly how to install and what is needed for the fix?????*
> 
> 
> Your capacitor is a 0.047ufarad! A 1 ufarad or close that value is needed. YOU PURCHASED THE WRONG CAPACITOR!
> 
> Send a PM to me with your address. I will send a proper capacitor to you. And FOLLOW the modification directions!


Just installed the right capacitor, and fired right up! I need to wait until everything dries before I can work the saw. Sounds good though. Thanks again!


----------



## hotshot

Good job! You would have been just fine if you had stacked up 22 of those caps in parallel!

Yes 2.7mm or 0.108" is the piston top displacement position for the points setting at 26* BTDC, but on an electronic ignition you have to set it while running, or dynamically, not static like old school breaker points.

Your coil part number is the correct one, and it probably kicks out 15 kV if you could measure it at top speed.


----------



## foggysail

hotshot said:


> Good job! You would have been just fine if you had stacked up 22 of those caps in parallel!
> 
> .



HOTSHOT!!!

I JUST DID A BELLY ROLL while reading your post! I just gave you an "attaboy"

Foggy


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## hotshot

foggysail said:


> HOTSHOT!!!
> 
> I JUST DID A BELLY ROLL while reading your post! I just gave you an "attaboy"
> 
> Foggy


I know that remark wasn't very nice, but it's true!

I do have a question though. Can you measure high voltage coil output with an O'scope? I have an old TI scope from the 70s, but I don't think it's capable of isolating that much voltage.


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## foggysail

Yes-- used to do it all the time when I was a design engineer developing high power radar transmitters while working at a large company in Massachusetts. Not sure about your scope though but give it a try. There were two ways we used back then. First was a high voltage scope probe made by Tektronix that could ONLY be used for pulse measurements. If you tried to use it on high voltage DC or AC, the internal resistor divider would heat up and fail. 

The second used a capacitor divider that we made for lab use. It was a sophisticated device needed to tune out the effects of the distributed capacitance.

If you hold your scope probe close to the high voltage wire (spark plug wire) you will see the voltage pulse. Try taping it so it will stay in one place while you change the saw's RPM. You will not be able to tell how high the voltage is but you will be able to see if it changes as the RPMs change.

Foggy


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## JohnE

This is fantastic stuff . Informative and useful, the next time one of my 056'es lies down I may have a go myself. The last time it cost £100 gbp and the guys at the local dealership said I was very lucky they had an ignition as the saw was a Canadian model and had a different set up than the European ones.
Thanks to foggy sail and you other contributors this is why I signed up to this forum smashing stuff . J


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## Mike53

Hello,

Looking forward to trying out this fix on one of my dead 056s, would this be an appropriate capacitor?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Metallized-Polypropylene-Film-Capacitors-0-82uF/dp/B008DEZ6HM


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## foggysail

Maybe--. That capacitor looks like it was rolled film instead of stacked film. The difference is that rolling causes the capacitor to have inductance which eliminates them for pulse usage. You can always give it a try.


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## 028 super

will this info fix the electronic ignition on a stihl 041 super. Mine is starting to fail. I believe it is bosch but I have not pulled the flywheel yet.


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## Mike53

Cheers for the quick reply foggy, nice to hear from the originator of the fix!

Bought this one in the end, any better?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/271226771207?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT


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## foggysail

Mike-- You should be fine. Let the board know how you make out with the repair.

Foggy


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## foggysail

28 Super-- you will have to ask others if the ignitions are the same or pull apart your saw. I am only familiar with 056.


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## gary courtney

have a bosch I need to just send you and pay you to fix


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## foggysail

Sorry Gary--- no exceptions. I went to great detail providing instructions, pictures of the repair along with needed material to help everybody do the fix. This is something you can do, try it. Also fyi--- there was somebody doing repairs on Ebay for this ignition (maybe he reads this forum and got my instructions) and his charge if I remember correctly was $100 plus the shipping 

Foggy


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## gary courtney

well thanks anyway


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## scallywag

Can the philips capacitors still be purchased?


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## Mike53

right, she's apart, just waiting on my capacitors arriving. Foggysail, is there any mileage in cutting the connections to the old capacitor, just to be sure? As from what ive read sometimes these things kinda half function when they're cold...


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## Mike53

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## foggysail

Mike--

So far so good with your pictures. Just follow my instructions! YOU MUST cut that smaller copper run as I earlier posted. This separates one side of the old capacitor from the circuit. The other side ties to electrical ground so there is no need to chase that or eliminate it.

IF YOU DO NOT MAKE THE CUT, YOUR IGNITION WILL NOT WORK!!!!

The original problem is the old capacitor is subjected to very high temperatures because there is little cooling where it is located. The result is the old capacitors fail SHORTED! So if you do not cut the copper run as I gave earlier instructions to do, the old capacitor will electrically shunt the new capacitor which will prevent the new capacitor from charging. It will be the same as placing a wire across the capacitor's two terminal wires.

But your's is a good question, I feel good that you asked. Both your question and my answer might help somebody from screwing up.

Foggy


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## Mike53

Thanks, just wondered if snipping the wires to the old cap was less risky than poking the knife into the potting, are there other components under there?! Hopefully the new capacitors will come tomorrow! 


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## foggysail

Mike--and others-- be careful of the shut off wire that goes to the shut off switch. That wire's insulation is junk! Either cut the wire from the ignition module being careful that it does not short to ground or tape it, or find a method to electrically insulate it such that it cannot short to ground. If it shorts, your saw WILL NOT RUN. I just cut mine off. I first went to great pain and replaced it with a new wire (cut the old and solder a new one in its place) only to later find that the cheapo switch failed. One of the typical places where the wire will short is just after it leaves the potting material and crosses over the the potting's metal frame.

My saw shuts down quickly by using the choke. Now I want to be clear, if you remove the shut off wire/switch..... you do so at your risk, not mine. Enjoy and good luck--

Foggy


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## foggysail

Mike53 said:


> Thanks, just wondered if snipping the wires to the old cap was less risky than poking the knife into the potting, are there other components under there?! Hopefully the new capacitors will come tomorrow!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Mike-- you cannot get at the old capacitor's wires because they are buried in the potting after they were soldered to the internal PC board. What you accomplish by making the cut I described is essentially the same as cutting one of the wires from the old capacitor proper. There are a bunch of components buried in the potting that is why I posted a picture showing exactly where to make the cut.


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## Mike53

Roger that! I'm guessing you must've had to pretty much destroy one of these things to figure out what went where?! 


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## foggysail

Mike53 said:


> Roger that! I'm guessing you must've had to pretty much destroy one of these things to figure out what went where?!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Yes! Actually I stripped off all the potting material and drew an electrical circuit based on the way the components were mounted onto the printed circuit board. I did get that first unit to function but it was in disarray. There was no hope to use it for photographing how to make the fix. With the circuit known, I then searched for what could cause the ignition to fail and quickly found the charging capacitor to be the cause.

If you read some of the earlier posts, pages prior to page 3 you will find where I asked the board for a couple of samples so I could use one for a model. That worked out well for all.


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## foggysail

Folks must be reading this thread! I watched a 056 power head (non working) over on EBay. Has about 10 minutes left and the price on it has taken off to over $170 with 35 bids!


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## scallywag

foggysail said:


> Folks must be reading this thread! I watched a 056 power head (non working) over on EBay. Has about 10 minutes left and the price on it has taken off to over $170 with 35 bids!



I fitted used SEM 056 magnum ignitions to 056 supers over the years, thanks to you and your thread when these SEM's fail (and they will!) I'll convert them back!


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## gary courtney

are these capacitors readily available?


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## foggysail

scallywag said:


> I fitted used SEM 056 magnum ignitions to 056 supers over the years, thanks to you and your thread when these SEM's fail (and they will!) I'll convert them back!



You're welcome Scallywag! I wanted to share my fix with anybody who had interests without having my hand out for a fee. My intention was to help others, especially those who depended on this saw (and the 045) to earn a living. It is a true shame that the original ignition from Bosch had a design flaw. I suggest that you copy the sections where I describe how to implement the fix in case it gets lost over time. I understand there are many important posts that seem to get lost over time.


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## shorthunter

foggysail said:


> There are not many "other" wires to make things complicated. There are two yellow wires displayed that attach to two terminals on a new capacitor.... not polarized. On the other ends of the yellow wires has one attached to a grounding lug while the other is soldered as displayed. The black wire is a replacement for the existing wire whose insulation is rotted away. Oh the large wire in the ignition is the spark plug wire.
> 
> Your worries about lost information is true. This free repair instruction should be made a sticky but I will leave that to the moderators.
> 
> Foggy



Excellent thread. This is what arboristsite is for, sharing good information


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## foggysail

gary courtney said:


> are these capacitors readily available?



Gary--

The supplier for the originally suggested capacitor on EBay quickly sold out after this thread gained attention. However, it is just an electrical component and there are numerous substitutes. The value is not super critical. For example, Mike on the previous page posted the part he purchased

http://www.ebay.com/itm/271226771207?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

I believe this part should work! Capacitors are built using two basic methods, first is to wind a sandwich of two conducting foils with an insulating material between the foils. This method works although the capacitor will have a degree of inductance built into it because of the winding method. The second method is to stack sandwiches of insulating foils that are separated with an insulator. The ends of the foil are used for connections. This is a better method of construction for capacitors that have pulse power applications. As to values--- you should be fine with something in the range of 0.8-1 microfarad (uf).

Remember, this is not rocket science and good luck.

Foggy


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## scallywag

gary courtney said:


> are these capacitors readily available?


Gary, are you referring to the original philips capacitors as used by Foggy?


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## gary courtney

yes phil, he replied about another I will just copy and go to electronic store tomorrow.


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## Mike53

The goods finally arrived! Now off to try the fix!







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## foggysail

Mike--

Good for you! Please share your results after installing the fix here in the forum so others can benefit.

Foggy


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## Mike53

Well no luck... I must've done something daft :\


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## Mike53

One spark, now nothing again...


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## foggysail

Mike53 said:


> Well no luck... I must've done something daft :\



Mike-- post some pictures showing how you made electrical connections to cleared potting area & the grounded connection at the ignition. Also show how your capacitor is soldered. Finally, the wire leading to the on/off switch-- be sure that it is not shorting to ground. Also pull that wire off of the on/off switch if you still have it wired. My on/off switch was shorted internally. I just clipped the shutdown wire from the potting...did away with it completely.

I presume you have the flywheel loosely connected during these initial tests. Makes life easier if you don't lock it up tight


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## Mike53

All sorted, think the HT lead, or at least the connection to the coil is less than ideal, but with some wiggling she's come to life!

Mr. Foggysail if I ever find myself in your neck of the woods (no pun intended) I most certainly owe you several beers!


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## Mike53

Images of the job as it took place, my soldering is not the prettiest but is well stuck, and will be sealed up with hot glue tomorrow.


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## foggysail

Mike53 said:


> All sorted, think the HT lead, or at least the connection to the coil is less than ideal, but with some wiggling she's come to life!
> 
> Mr. Foggysail if I ever find myself in your neck of the woods (no pun intended) I most certainly owe you several beers!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




MIKE-- THAT IS GREAT NEWS!!!! To date, I have not read about the fix failing to remedy a failed ignition. And no worries about beer, you will have to make the beverage Gosling's Ginger Beer! Well, maybe not really a beer, its a soda. OH-- your workmanship looks just fine!

Keep the faith, stay out of France and keep that saw running!

Foggy


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## Mike53

Just the other one to crack now! How did you reattach your HT lead to the coil? Clearly they're supposed to screw on but short of pulling the grommet out and the cap off the spark plug end this is not possible... Mine is just pushed on and I suspect it is not the best connection! 


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## foggysail

Mike53 said:


> Just the other one to crack now! How did you reattach your HT lead to the coil? Clearly they're supposed to screw on but short of pulling the grommet out and the cap off the spark plug end this is not possible... Mine is just pushed on and I suspect it is not the best connection!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The coil wire just pushes onto the coil. You might be able to lock it in place by covering the outer jacket with RTV with the wire seated. Silicon caulking (RTV) should do it.


----------



## kerfootm

foggysail said:


> Gary--
> 
> The supplier for the originally suggested capacitor on EBay quickly sold out after this thread gained attention. However, it is just an electrical component and there are numerous substitutes. The value is not super critical. For example, Mike on the previous page posted the part he purchased
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/271226771207?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
> 
> I believe this part should work! Capacitors are built using two basic methods, first is to wind a sandwich of two conducting foils with an insulating material between the foils. This method works although the capacitor will have a degree of inductance built into it because of the winding method. The second method is to stack sandwiches of insulating foils that are separated with an insulator. The ends of the foil are used for connections. This is a better method of construction for capacitors that have pulse power applications. As to values--- you should be fine with something in the range of 0.8-1 microfarad (uf).
> 
> Remember, this is not rocket science and good luck.
> 
> Foggy



Just FYI, this eBay seller is in the UK and doesn't ship to the US.


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## foggysail

Just FYI-------and available now

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-PHILIP...apacitor-/161203941323?_trksid=p2054897.l4275


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## Mike53

Well had a vaguely successful day with the saw, not entirely happy stopping it with choke, seems to cause flooding issues making the next start difficult. Anyone else found this? Thinking of rigging some system to short the spark plug, much like is found on old Suffolk and ATCO mowers.


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## foggysail

Mike53 said:


> Well had a vaguely successful day with the saw, not entirely happy stopping it with choke, seems to cause flooding issues making the next start difficult. Anyone else found this? Thinking of rigging some system to short the spark plug, much like is found on old Suffolk and ATCO mowers.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Mike-- You have the option of replacing both the original wire from the potting material running to the switch and the switch. The type of switch I suggest is a simple toggle (single pole, single throw). If you do this, you will need to add a second wire onto the unused switch terminal to ground. I do not recommend replacing the junk switch with another junk switch although in your particular case, there may be nothing wrong with the existing switch. The originals have a high failure rate.


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## kerfootm

foggysail said:


> Just FYI-------and available now
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-PHILIP...apacitor-/161203941323?_trksid=p2054897.l4275


Ordered. Thanks so much foggysail!


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## hotshot

Mike53 said:


> Just the other one to crack now! How did you reattach your HT lead to the coil? Clearly they're supposed to screw on but short of pulling the grommet out and the cap off the spark plug end this is not possible... Mine is just pushed on and I suspect it is not the best connection!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Coil wires screw onto the post, then you feed the wires (kill & HT) through the grommet with a bit of lube and the coil loose. Set the coil over the shaft and into its mount as you pull the wires through. Probably the biggest PITA on that saw series.

It helps to push a pick or an awl into the HT lead end to get a "starter" hole.

You do have to remove the boot and clip at the plug...


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## Mike53

Can't even get the b*astard thing to start today, still got a fat spark but I suspect the plug isn't wonderful and is struggling to spark with fuel round it. Tried to check the other end of the HT lead but unfortunately having heeded the earlier advice and tightened the flywheel nut very tight I now can't get the flywheel off, even with my puller. Just one of those days...


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## foggysail

Try giving it a blast of starting fluid. That gets my tough starting saw running


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## Mike53

Shall have to pick some up, I tend to make a point of not keeping it, too tempting to get into the habit of using it! Not gonna stress over it too much until I've got a brand new plug and can eliminate that as a culprit.


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## foggysail

OH-- my "tough starting saw" is an old 610 McCulloch that continues to run well after getting started.


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## Mike53

Yeh I think this 056 is severely flooded now so may need a little starting fluid to help it burn off the excess fuel! 


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## longearrider

Hello everyone longearrider hear just joined the forum new to all this high tech stuff I have an 056 equipt with sem system doesn't run when hot do I need to do the same thing to it or what maybe I missed some info hope you can help thanks


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## Rokon

longearrider said:


> Hello everyone longearrider hear just joined the forum new to all this high tech stuff I have an 056 equipt with sem system doesn't run when hot do I need to do the same thing to it or what maybe I missed some info hope you can help thanks



Hello and Welcome!
From all the reading in this post, this repair only applies to the BOSCH version of ignition.

Now, I hope someone can figure out the SEM problem as I have 4 dead SEM coils to one 2101 saw :-(


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## towingace

Rokon said:


> Hello and Welcome!
> From all the reading in this post, this repair only applies to the BOSCH version of ignition.
> 
> Now, I hope someone can figure out the SEM problem as I have 4 dead SEM coils to one 2101 saw :-(


Hey bro, you're replying to a suspicious looking post.


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## longearrider

UOTE="towingace, post: 5148035, member: 113393"]Hey bro, you're replying to a suspicious looking post.[/QUOTE]
Ok so what does that mean ?


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## Mike53

Well, new plug and starting fluid and still no sign of life 


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## Mike53

But still a good blue spark...


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## scallywag

Mike53 said:


> Well, new plug and starting fluid and still no sign of life
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Your saw has good compression?


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## Mike53

Yeh plenty of compression, I did the fix successfully and got a day of use out of the saw but it's now died again 


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## scallywag

longearrider said:


> Hello everyone longearrider hear just joined the forum new to all this high tech stuff I have an 056 equipt with sem system doesn't run when hot do I need to do the same thing to it or what maybe I missed some info hope you can help thanks



Pull the starter and fly wheel and clean around the module as best you can to improve air flow, this might buy some time for the ignition but it's only a matter of time before it fails completely!..........Sorry.


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## scallywag

How are you testing the spark?


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## Mike53

Rested on the top cover, update however is that spark has now gone completely. 

Gonna have to pull it apart and re-check everything I've done 


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## scallywag

Try some other plugs!!.... I've seen new plugs test fine on a plug tester but fail under compression.


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## Mike53

Okay, well I bought two new plugs so I guess I'll give the other a try! 


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## scallywag

Have you check the earth wire pn# 1115 440 2202?.. and disabled the kill switch?


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## Mike53

The small earth strap between the two halves of the saw I did away with, as it seems unnecessary one the stop switch is disabled. I assume this is the wire your talking about?


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## foggysail

Mike53 said:


> Rested on the top cover, update however is that spark has now gone completely.
> 
> Gonna have to pull it apart and re-check everything I've done
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



There are numerous components in the ignition circuit, any can fail although from reports to date, the primary failure component is the capacitor.

Read post #49. I sheared the flywheel key back then so carefully check the key. My flywheel was so loose that pulling on the starter rope would not turn the crankshaft. BUT the key need not be completely sheared. Sometimes one can get spark (lawnmower experience after hitting a rock) but the thing won't run. Look it over carefully. Any bend in the key will offset the flywheel's angular position.

If all else fails, try replacing the new capacitor.


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## scallywag

It's my understanding that wire bridges the insulation provided by the rubber av mounts, I've seen kill switches not work when the wire was fitted incorrectly.


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## Mike53

Tried to strip it down to check the key, but found out I did the flywheel up so tight I now can't get it off :/


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## foggysail

Yeah, I had similar problems getting the flywheel off. Somewhere in the forums others suggested placing a ball peen hammer in the center of the shaft and whacking it with another hammer. I did and it immediately freed the flywheel. Once when I did this, it moved the crankshaft such that it would not rotate... hit an obstruction inside the crank case. When I post this, another responder suggested just whacking the other end to reposition it back to its original position. I did and it did.


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## Mike53

Think maybe I'll crack on with doing the fix on the other saw then come back to this one and attempt to rectify it!


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## mogman8

Are we bypassing the old capacitor here? Is there a reason we can't solder the new cap in place of the old one rather than epoxying it to the housing? I'm planning to help a friend do this tonight on an 056. The condition is that the saw loses spark after heating up (about 5 minutes from cold) and then quite often after that. Will this fix remedy this symptom?


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## Mike53

As I understand it the old cap is buried deep in the potting so yes you're bypassing it when you cut the bus.

Update is that I've completed the fix successfully on saw number 2. Just need to get round to dismantling the first one again for a thorough checking now...


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## foggysail

mogman8 said:


> Are we bypassing the old capacitor here? Is there a reason we can't solder the new cap in place of the old one rather than epoxying it to the housing? I'm planning to help a friend do this tonight on an 056. The condition is that the saw loses spark after heating up (about 5 minutes from cold) and then quite often after that. Will this fix remedy this symptom?




PLEASE!!!! FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS......


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## Mike53

Also mogman, I'm not an expert but that sounds more like a coil issue. But for the sake of a cheap capacitor and a couple hours work you may as well attempt the fix, nothing to lose!


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## mogman8

foggysail said:


> PLEASE!!!! FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS......


I understand and will follow your instructions but I'm trying to understand more about what your fix is accomplishing and how it's doing it and if it's relevant to my friend's issue. I am not an ignition expert so I can assure you I certainly will be following your writeup....just trying to understand more. Mike53 thanks for the tip, you may be right. My friend and I are going to put our heads together in a couple hours to try and sort this out.


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## Mike53

As an engineering student I also would be interested to see what was under the potting in the ignition foggysail initially experimented with! Though I can understand why he has not shown it for the sake of keeping the thread as non-technical as possible.


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## xdriver

Mogman8 is going to help me tonight! 

I have a Stihl 056 AV Super Electronic 

The saw will run for 5 minutes or so and then shut off and will not start again until you let it sit for 5-10 minutes. It will then run for another 5 minutes or so, and die again until you let it sit/cool. Is this the capacitor problem that foggysail has outlined a fix for, or possibly some other problem other than either the capacitor or shut off wire insulation/switch?

Thanks guys, and gals if you are out there.


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## Tyrel

If it has the Bosch ignition, I would say yes. I just started the mod on my 045, but have to wait for the darn capacitor to get here. Like three weeks. Bummer! Anyway like to thank mike53 for turning me on to this thread, glad to hear you got at least one going so far. A big thanks to foggysail as well, good to have people like you around.


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## Rae1980

foggy I found these on mouser electronics if they will work
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Vishay/BFC237852105


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## mogman8

So it appears the issue with xdriver's 056 was cracked insulation on the kill switch wire, shorting out after heating up, the saw ran for 15 minutes (longer than it's ever run since it started acting up) before shearing the key, I think we didn't have the key nested in the keyway properly. Once we get a new key in there well know for sure


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## foggysail

Rae1980 said:


> foggy I found these on mouser electronics if they will work
> http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Vishay/BFC237852105



Yes, Mouser sells capacitors along with many other components. Rather than search through their listings, consider

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-PHILIP...apacitor-/161203941323?_trksid=p2054897.l4275


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## kerfootm

Foggy, just applied your fix to my 045AV, works great, thanks so much for all your efforts!


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## betterbuilt

mogman8 said:


> So it appears the issue with xdriver's 056 was cracked insulation on the kill switch wire, shorting out after heating up, the saw ran for 15 minutes (longer than it's ever run since it started acting up) before shearing the key, I think we didn't have the key nested in the keyway properly. Once we get a new key in there well know for sure


So did you put the capacitor in? I took mine apart and noticed I have the same issue with the kill switch wire.


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## mogman8

No, I did not do the capacitor, just replaced the cracked kill switch wire


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## PogoInTheWoods

Absolutely outstanding thread, Foggy!!!

Now as Rokon wistfully (and wishfully) mused...



Rokon said:


> From all the reading in this post, this repair only applies to the BOSCH version of ignition.
> 
> Now, I hope someone can figure out the SEM problem.... :-(



No kidding! Same exact symptom (for the most part). Evidently a bit more of a challenge getting to the component level for analysis and repair, tho.

BTW, most of us would strongly suggest using mix vs. starting fluid when attempting to start a stubborn saw (or one with suspected fuel delivery issues)!!! No lubrication in starting fluid and damage can occur to the top end if the saw over-revs or is run too long on it.

But should you care to take a stab at one of the SEM modules, I'd be glad to send one your way for dissection...., as I'm sure would many others as well!!!


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## Eccentric

54stude said:


> Does anyone know if the husky 2100-2101 Bosch ignition is the same as this one repair wise?





veljko said:


> Yes they are.



I thought that the Husky 1100-2101 series used SEM and FEMSA ignitions (with different flywheels and starter covers for each of those two ign types). Hadn't heard/read about a Bosch ignition for these before. Is the Bosch the same as the FEMSA?


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## foggysail

kerfootm said:


> Foggy, just applied your fix to my 045AV, works great, thanks so much for all your efforts!



You're welcome!


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## Bill Melhorn

Email me at [email protected]. I can send one if you are still looking for one.


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## Bill Melhorn

Mike53 said:


> Images of the job as it took place, my soldering is not the prettiest but is well stuck, and will be sealed up with hot glue tomorrow.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## foggysail

Bill Melhorn--

I encourage you to rebuild your ignitions. The fix is well described along with pictures. Essentially all one needs to do is gently scrap off a small amount of potting material AT THE LOCATION SHOWN IN THE PICTURES, make a small cut in the exposed copper run and solder a wire to it. The rest of the fix is assembly along with mounting the capacitor. THIS IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE, anybody who purchases a soldering iron design for electronic work (about 25 watts) along with solder sold specifically for electronics (flux in the core) can easily accomplish these things.

You asked about the kill wire elsewhere. What I recommend doing is to clip the kill wire off the ignition but leave about 1/4-3/8" of wire protruding. Clean that small piece of remaining wire and solder a new, stranded, insulated wire onto the cleaned stub. Cover the new solder joint with anything you can get your hands on--- epoxy, caulking compound.... you get the idea.

If you do replace the wire, I highly recommend purchases a simple toggle switch from Radio Shack or elsewhere to replace the POS shutoff switch on the saw proper. Not only does the POS shutoff wire short out the ignition because the insulation used in Germany when the saw was made, attempted to please the Greenies and it self destructs in a heated enviroment, but the stinking switch can fail shorted or open.

Give those ignitions a try and remember, the modification REMOVES an internal capacitor and replaces it with a new externally mounted capacitor. And the new capacitor is mounted in a cooling air stream.

Foggy


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## Bill Melhorn

foggysail said:


> Bill Melhorn--
> 
> I encourage you to rebuild your ignitions. The fix is well described along with pictures. Essentially all one needs to do is gently scrap off a small amount of potting material AT THE LOCATION SHOWN IN THE PICTURES, make a small cut in the exposed copper run and solder a wire to it. The rest of the fix is assembly along with mounting the capacitor. THIS IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE, anybody who purchases a soldering iron design for electronic work (about 25 watts) along with solder sold specifically for electronics (flux in the core) can easily accomplish these things.
> 
> You asked about the kill wire elsewhere. What I recommend doing is to clip the kill wire off the ignition but leave about 1/4-3/8" of wire protruding. Clean that small piece of remaining wire and solder a new, stranded, insulated wire onto the cleaned stub. Cover the new solder joint with anything you can get your hands on--- epoxy, caulking compound.... you get the idea.
> 
> If you do replace the wire, I highly recommend purchases a simple toggle switch from Radio Shack or elsewhere to replace the POS shutoff switch on the saw proper. Not only does the POS shutoff wire short out the ignition because the insulation used in Germany when the saw was made, attempted to please the Greenies and it self destructs in a heated enviroment, but the stinking switch can fail shorted or open.
> 
> Give those ignitions a try and remember, the modification REMOVES an internal capacitor and replaces it with a new externally mounted capacitor. And the new capacitor is mounted in a cooling air stream.
> 
> Foggy


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## Bill Melhorn

While waiting for capacitors to show up, I removed the kill switch wire for a module I had, making sure no remains were touching the metal case, put the flywheel on securely over the keyway, put the flywheel back on, tightened the nut with impact wrench, then turned the crank counterclockwise with a drill, have spark now. Assembled the saw and fired on the 4th pull. With no kill switch wire, I could securely screw the module ono the spark plug wire. I shut it down by pulling the boot off the spark plug with gloved hand, using the choke makes it harder to restart. Previous post warned about using starting fluid, but what I get at Walmart has a top end lubricant. Questions: could I replace the kill switch wire by removing some of the potting like you did to get at the capacitor? And could I put butt style connectors on the kill switch wire as well as the capacitor wire to be able to use/test other modules (I have 6), still enabling me to to screw the module onto the spark plug wire?


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## foggysail

Bill Melhorn said:


> While waiting for capacitors to show up, I removed the kill switch wire for a module I had, making sure no remains were touching the metal case, put the flywheel on securely over the keyway, put the flywheel back on, tightened the nut with impact wrench, then turned the crank counterclockwise with a drill, have spark now. Assembled the saw and fired on the 4th pull. With no kill switch wire, I could securely screw the module ono the spark plug wire. I shut it down by pulling the boot off the spark plug with gloved hand, using the choke makes it harder to restart. Previous post warned about using starting fluid, but what I get at Walmart has a top end lubricant. Questions: could I replace the kill switch wire by removing some of the potting like you did to get at the capacitor? And could I put butt style connectors on the kill switch wire as well as the capacitor wire to be able to use/test other modules (I have 6), still enabling me to to screw the module onto the spark plug wire?



There is no room inside the ignition to easily use a butt crimp connector that is why I suggested clipping the original wire at about 1/4-3/8" above the potting material. Why do you want to be adventurous and needlessly dig into the potting material in an unknown area? Consider the risks! That is why I carefully photographed exactly where I wanted potting material removed in the "fix" pictures.

It appears your problem was the kill wire was shorting out and not the capacitor. Should you change the capacitor as described???? Well the old rule I operated by was if its not broken, don't fix it. However..... reality sets in when one considers the huge number of ignition failures attributed to a capacitor buried in potting. So my friend..........the choice is yours. Fix me now or fix me later. OH--- I use the choke on mine although I did replace the kill wire. But my stinking POS switch is shorted and I just don't feel like replacing it but if I do in the future, it will be with a simple single pole single throw toggle switch, not an original part.


----------



## Bill Melhorn

foggysail said:


> There is no room inside the ignition to easily use a butt crimp connector that is why I suggested clipping the original wire at about 1/4-3/8" above the potting material. Why do you want to be adventurous and needlessly dig into the potting material in an unknown area? Consider the risks! That is why I carefully photographed exactly where I wanted potting material removed in the "fix" pictures.
> 
> It appears your problem was the kill wire was shorting out and not the capacitor. Should you change the capacitor as described???? Well the old rule I operated by was if its not broken, don't fix it. However..... reality sets in when one considers the huge number of ignition failures attributed to a capacitor buried in potting. So my friend..........the choice is yours. Fix me now or fix me later. OH--- I use the choke on mine although I did replace the kill wire. But my stinking POS switch is shorted and I just don't feel like replacing it but if I do in the future, it will be with a simple single pole single throw toggle switch, not an original part.


----------



## Bill Melhorn

Shoulda known. Cut down 17" dead fir, then cut 16 rounds off the big end . Stopped the saw to reposition my log holder. Saw wouldn't start: no spark. Now I wait for the capacitors to arrive from China. I misspoke earlier, thinking of using bullet connectors on the wires so I can take tham apart and swap modules to check them after installing the capacitors and removing just enough of the potting to solder a new kill wire since I cut it off too short like a dummy. thanks tons for the input. Where do I send beer (soda) money? seriously.


----------



## foggysail

Bill Melhorn said:


> Shoulda known. Cut down 17" dead fir, then cut 16 rounds off the big end . Stopped the saw to reposition my log holder. Saw wouldn't start: no spark. Now I wait for the capacitors to arrive from China. I misspoke earlier, thinking of using bullet connectors on the wires so I can take tham apart and swap modules to check them after installing the capacitors and removing just enough of the potting to solder a new kill wire since I cut it off too short like a dummy. thanks tons for the input. Where do I send beer (soda) money? seriously.



I was going to suggest removing the wire from the kill switch if it was still wired but from your note above, appears the wire is cut at the potting. If you have the wire cut too short, you should be safe to dig out enough potting surrounding the cut wire. Then you can solder a new stranded wire to the exposed stub. Good luck with it


----------



## Bill Melhorn

foggysail said:


> I was going to suggest removing the wire from the kill switch if it was still wired but from your note above, appears the wire is cut at the potting. If you have the wire cut too short, you should be safe to dig out enough potting surrounding the cut wire. Then you can solder a new stranded wire to the exposed stub. Good luck with it


----------



## Bill Melhorn

I found out this morning that when you look at the instructions with pictures in page 3, they are pretty small, but if you log in, they magically become full size, making your directions crystal clear. And using the choke to stop the saw requires 2 pulls on the starter when restarting instead of one if you have a kill switch. Think I'll not bother with fixing the kill switch.


----------



## Bojan

Foggy please Email me at [email protected] i need your help with 056 ignition. Thank you!


----------



## lwn9186

I could use one or two caps if anybody has extras. Thanks


----------



## foggysail

lwn9186 said:


> I could use one or two caps if anybody has extras. Thanks


 


Try EBay

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-WIMA-M...273?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item25850380d9


----------



## William Balaska

Hi foggy. I have the same Bosch ignition in my Husqvarna 285. It's identical to the 056 units. My question is this, does an ignition that fires weak have anything to do with the capacitor? Mine fires but the saw doesn't start and all else is well. Under full advance the increase in timing should make the saw hard to pull over but no change from full advance to retardation of the ignition timing when rotating the armature. I assume the spark is to weak under compression.


----------



## foggysail

William Balaska said:


> Hi foggy. I have the same Bosch ignition in my Husqvarna 285. It's identical to the 056 units. My question is this, does an ignition that fires weak have anything to do with the capacitor? Mine fires but the saw doesn't start and all else is well. Under full advance the increase in timing should make the saw hard to pull over but no change from full advance to retardation of the ignition timing when rotating the armature. I assume the spark is to weak under compression.



Probably not. Silly question/statement.... I presume the shaft key for the flywheel is OK.

Before you do much more...... try using starter fluid. Just spray a little into the carburetor and give it a try....outside of course. Let us know if the saw responds.


----------



## foggysail

Bojan said:


> Foggy please Email me at [email protected] i need your help with 056 ignition. Thank you!




Bojan-- post your question for all to share suggestions


----------



## William Balaska

I've go 


foggysail said:


> Probably not. Silly question/statement.... I presume the shaft key for the flywheel is OK.
> 
> Before you do much more...... try using starter fluid. Just spray a little into the carburetor and give it a try....outside of course. Let us know if the saw responds.


I've gone through all the trouble shooting and am not a newbie to wrenching. Not sure what is silly. Under full advance of the timing with good spark it will be a sob to pull. I was asking if the capacitor had anything to do with voltage not being high enough.


----------



## ILikesEmGreen

I think he was saying asking if the flywheel key was good was silly statement/question. Sorry to speak before you, just saw it and wanted to help clarify. 

I would assume that if a capacitor was bad or faulty due to heat or other factors, it could start to preform other than intended, ie. Not charging fully, not discharging all its stored voltage, or maybe messing with the timing of discharging that voltage. Who knows. Just a thought.


----------



## William Balaska

That's what I was thinking.


----------



## towingace

Yeah Bill, foggy was referring to himself by that statement. Don't feel bad, I had to do a double-read myself, to make sure.

BTW, that's interesting that your 285 has the same ignition. I wonder how many other Hooskies have it.


----------



## tntatro

Hello all, my 056 super just died today. Checked for spark and there wasn't any. I have not taken it apart yet but am happy to have found this discussion. Even ordered some capacitors. Is the 630V recommended over the 400V? Is there anywhere closer to order from on ebay? It will take a while to get here from Taiwan.


----------



## towingace

Yeah, sure...BA


----------



## ILikesEmGreen

Tntatro, the link in post 279 will probably serve you best for what you are looking for. Foggy listed the specs for what he thought worked best. I'd closely match that if possible. Sucks they are most easily found in far away places. Lol.


----------



## William Balaska

towingace said:


> Yeah Bill, foggy was referring to himself by that statement. Don't feel bad, I had to do a double-read myself, to make sure.
> 
> BTW, that's interesting that your 285 has the same ignition. I wonder how many other Hooskies have it.


Only early 285 and 2100 saws had it, otherwise they had SEM or femsa


----------



## tntatro

Does this piece just lift off? It's stuck on pretty good. How do you get it off?


----------



## William Balaska

U need a puller to properly remove it.


----------



## olyman

towingace said:


> Yeah, sure...BA


 expose him......


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

There are plenty of bad Bosch ignitions out there to experiment with if you don't want to risk damage to yours thinking it still may be good, Bill. The success rate for implementing the fix described here seems to be hovering around 100%, so why not give it a shot and maybe end up with two serviceable ignitions...., or possibly eliminate them as the actual problem?

I just wish my 056 was Bosch instead of SEM.


----------



## towingace

Is your SEM ignition dead, Poge?


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

The one that came in the box o' parts with the saw itself from the Husky shop that worked on it supposedly is. I bought one from a reputable source that is supposed to be good, but this is a project in the wings needing a pretty dedicated effort to get it all sorted out. Not sure when I'll get to it, but hope to soon.


----------



## foggysail

tntatro said:


> Does this piece just lift off? It's stuck on pretty good. How do you get it off?


 
Yes-- to properly remove it you should use a puller.

Now if you want to be crude and cruel to your beast, place a small ball peen hammer right in the center of the shaft dimple. Hold it steady and WHACK IT with another hammer. Chances are it will pull free. Caution here, the magnets in the flywheel will keep the thing in place so its best to attach the air fins so you can have something to grab onto to pull it free after the whacking.

Remember---me no mechanic.... yeah, English is incorrect along with whacking


----------



## foggysail

tntatro said:


> Hello all, my 056 super just died today. Checked for spark and there wasn't any. I have not taken it apart yet but am happy to have found this discussion. Even ordered some capacitors. Is the 630V recommended over the 400V? Is there anywhere closer to order from on ebay? It will take a while to get here from Taiwan.



A higher voltage capacitor of the material and type I recommended earlier will work. It is just going to be larger. A few posts ago I provided a URL to some 600 volt caps on Ebay that should work if you have trouble getting the 400's


----------



## foggysail

SEM's! If somebody sends a couple of dogs.... MUST BE FAILED UNITS to me, someday when I get time, I will try to find what the problem is. No promises, no finish dates, no guarantees, no nothing, nada, ziltch. If a unit is functional, it will be of no value trying to find what the failure is.


----------



## tntatro

foggysail said:


> Yes-- to properly remove it you should use a puller.
> 
> Now if you want to be crude and cruel to your beast, place a small ball peen hammer right in the center of the shaft dimple. Hold it steady and WHACK IT with another hammer. Chances are it will pull free. Caution here, the magnets in the flywheel will keep the thing in place so its best to attach the air fins so you can have something to grab onto to pull it free after the whacking.
> 
> Remember---me no mechanic.... yeah, English is incorrect along with whacking



Good idea, that is how I have taken flywheels off other saws. I just forgot that I could put the flywheel back on to hold it. When doing it that way, its good to put the nut on to protect the threads at the end of the bolt and hit it directly with a hammer. 
I use my 056 for milling frequently so I should really be able to put it to the test if I get it going this way. Thanks for sharing this information.


----------



## tntatro

tntatro said:


> Good idea, that is how I have taken flywheels off other saws. I just forgot that I could put the flywheel back on to hold it. When doing it that way, its good to put the nut on to protect the threads at the end of the bolt and hit it directly with a hammer.
> I use my 056 for milling frequently so I should really be able to put it to the test if I get it going this way. Thanks for sharing this information.



You said in a post that you had an 056 upgraded to a 056 magnum piston and cylinder. Do you know if the 056 can be upgraded to the magnum without having to make modifications? Can you just put the magnum piston and cylinder on in place of the other one? I thought the 056 and 056 super were compatible with each other but not the magnum.


----------



## foggysail

tntatro said:


> You said in a post that you had an 056 upgraded to a 056 magnum piston and cylinder. Do you know if the 056 can be upgraded to the magnum without having to make modifications? Can you just put the magnum piston and cylinder on in place of the other one? I thought the 056 and 056 super were compatible with each other but not the magnum.




Remember-- "me no mechanic?" The guy I purchased the saw from 2-3 years ago said he had modified the cylinder. I don't follow this stuff closely enough nor know enough about the mechanics to give advice. If I needed greater saw power, I would purchase a different model without trying to re-engineer something that works. JMHO


----------



## tntatro

I have a question about replacing the switch. Will this switch work? Do I cut the end off the old wire and solder it onto the new switch and add a ground? There appears to be some type of ground wire but it wasn't attached to the old switch. It is held on by screws in two different places (second picture). I don't know what part actually failed so I thought I should try the switch first. The old switch wire appears to be in good condition.


----------



## foggysail

The switch in your pictures appears to be a single pole, double throw and if so, it should work. You really should use an ohm meter or continuity meter to determine which posts to connect your wires to. A single pole... think of this as a toggle where it makes contact between one of the other two contacts. When the switch is toggled, the contact is moved to the opposite terminal contact. If you screw the wiring up by wiring to the two contacts instead of between the pole and a contact it will not work.

The purpose of the switch is to connect the wire from the ignition proper to ground thereby stopping spark to the plug. It does not matter if the ground is connected to the pole or a contact as long as the ignition connects to matching pole or contact.

Whether this switch will work of course depends on using a working ignition or one that is modified as described in this thread. Good luck and remember this is not rocket science.

Foggy


----------



## tntatro

I decided to go ahead and modify the ignition since it is all taken apart already. I don't have any 18 gauge stranded wire. I just went to Lowes and all they had for 18 gauge was solid. I have 14 gauge stranded, a wire that went to a charger for an old rechargeable power screwdriver (pretty small looking), 18 gauge solid and maybe some 16 gauge speaker wire. I'm sure if I look around I can find more. Do you recommend the 18 gauge stranded or can I go bigger or smaller?
I now know what you mean about the cheap switch wire. I must have let the piece flop around too much and pulled apart the insulation.


----------



## foggysail

tntatro said:


> I decided to go ahead and modify the ignition since it is all taken apart already. I don't have any 18 gauge stranded wire. I just went to Lowes and all they had for 18 gauge was solid. I have 14 gauge stranded, a wire that went to a charger for an old rechargeable power screwdriver (pretty small looking), 18 gauge solid and maybe some 16 gauge speaker wire. I'm sure if I look around I can find more. Do you recommend the 18 gauge stranded or can I go bigger or smaller?
> I now know what you mean about the cheap switch wire. I must have let the piece flop around too much and pulled apart the insulation.
> View attachment 423851



NO! You do not want to use larger wire, too tough to work with.

#20 stranded will work although it is not as robust as 18. Try Radio Shack if there is one available in your neighborhood. The Company closed many stores but not all.

Crude but lamp cord will work


----------



## tntatro

I just found a couple power cords. One has a trigger on it and the other says 20/18 AWG. Will one of these be fine to use?


----------



## foggysail

tntatro said:


> I just found a couple power cords. One has a trigger on it and the other says 20/18 AWG. Will one of these be fine to use?View attachment 423864
> View attachment 423865



Yes--


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## tntatro

I got my saw together and it starts and runs good. I replaced the switch and switch wire and used the 1uF 630V 5% pitch P:27.5mm capacitor. I only started it and let it idle for a minute. I was a little worried because I did a terrible job soldering but the connections are there. I will mill with it next weekend and maybe a little during the week and keep you posted on results.


----------



## tntatro

I made 3 cuts today milling a log about 9' long and cuts were about 15" to 20" wide. The saw runs good so far. I think it's fixed.


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## foggysail

tntatro said:


> I made 3 cuts today milling a log about 9' long and cuts were about 15" to 20" wide. The saw runs good so far. I think it's fixed.
> View attachment 424012
> View attachment 424013




CONGRATS!!!!

Encouraging to read about successful modifications. By the way and for others--- there is nothing wrong using the higher 600 voltage capacitor I recommended over the 400 other than it is slightly larger.


----------



## tntatro

I didn't end up using the power cord wire. I found some more wire that appeared to be the same gauge but the insulation was thinner and tougher than the cord wire. I don't think I could have got 3 cord wires through the grommet because they looked too thick and flexible. I'm glad I replaced the switch wire, when I pulled it out of the grommet all the insulation easily stripped off and the wire wasn't even connected well. It pulled apart where someone had spliced it in the past.


----------



## tntatro

Just giving another update. 056 fix is still working great. Starts cold with 4 pulls. No problems at all. Milled a 20" diameter log this weekend with it and my 044.


----------



## foggysail

tntatro said:


> Just giving another update. 056 fix is still working great. Starts cold with 4 pulls. No problems at all. Milled a 20" diameter log this weekend with it and my 044.




Nothing sweeter than success!!! Enjoy..........

Foggy


----------



## chase84

Well i have to say i did up my bosch ignition as described and i get a nice blue spark. But it will only start and run for about 3 seconds...checked and still have nice spark...but this intermittent thing is a PITA. I used the correct capacitor and all the solder joints are heat shrinked...not sure what to do....im 99.9% sure its not a fuel issue and its got a brand new plug. Not sure where to go from here.


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## chase84

And i marked the ignition plate before removing it so i dont think it would be a timing issue since you guys are saying timing doesnt need to be messed with.


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## foggysail

I purchased a second saw that was claimed to be "running fine" because the other one I own had/has some mechanical issues. Anyway, the so called "running fine" was not and I did get some money returned because it had the typical ignition issues this thread discusses. So I did the upgrade!

My saw ran for a few minutes and pooped! Yeah, the first thing I checked was the spark and like yours, I had a healthy blue arc. My problem was the air filter on the carburetor. After cleaning it the saw runs just fine. Note-- the original problem was ignition, not the air filter. Make sure your's is clean.

Also I presume you either replaced or removed the original shut down wire, the one that goes to the switch.


----------



## chase84

​


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## chase84

I am running it with no filter while its apart...new kill wire soldered after i dug out a little epoxy and it got double heat shrinked. And the end of the kill wire has a wire nut on it. And i have been completely through the carb and it is very clean and all rubber diaphragms are nice and pliable. I have also tried dumping fuel down the throat of the carb and it just fires when it wants to but only will run for a few seconds.


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## chase84

Update...i can keep the saw running feathering the throttle but it is missing the whole time its running...any ideas?


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## foggysail

I guess and I do mean guess it could be ignition such as arcing with the spark plug wire. Could even be that the spark plug wire is not properly mated with the ignition coil. Your mod looks fine other than I would have filled the void you needed to make in the potting material.

Maybe others will join in with suggestions--


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## chase84

It had already been repotted- thanks, hopefully others have some ideas..the saw only cost me $40 so its not like im out a ton of money..but id love to have a big woodcutter for cheap!


----------



## Giles

*foggysail*--- I have three defective Stihl 201t modules. As some may know, Stihl screwed up when they made the 201t and many had defective coils--along with other items.
I have repaired/modified a few 201t but had to replace the coils.
Do you have any idea what their design flaw was and if your repair could be done?


----------



## ILikesEmGreen

Chase, what are your compression numbers on that saw? Low enough and it won't run right at all.


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## ILikesEmGreen

If you've got strong spark and redone the fuel system, the only thing left is compression. Need all three to run a 2 stroke...


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## chase84

Have compression fuel and spark....dont have a way to measure the spark so not sure how strong it is. I've rebuilt lots of saws and 2 stroke dirt bikes....it has to be a problem with the ignition...anyone kniw what the resistance of the coil should be?


----------



## foggysail

Giles said:


> *foggysail*--- I have three defective Stihl 201t modules. As some may know, Stihl screwed up when they made the 201t and many had defective coils--along with other items.
> I have repaired/modified a few 201t but had to replace the coils.
> Do you have any idea what their design flaw was and if your repair could be done?




What is a 201t?


----------



## foggysail

chase84 said:


> Have compression fuel and spark....dont have a way to measure the spark so not sure how strong it is. I've rebuilt lots of saws and 2 stroke dirt bikes....it has to be a problem with the ignition...anyone kniw what the resistance of the coil should be?



Are you sure the spark plug wire is properly set into the spark coil?


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## chase84

I just picked up some new plug wire with boot and clip...going to try that before i order a coil


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## chase84

Anyone have a good way to check/set coil to magnet gap?


----------



## Giles

foggysail said:


> What is a 201t?


Thank you very much!


----------



## ILikesEmGreen

chase84 said:


> Anyone have a good way to check/set coil to magnet gap?


It's usually "roughly" a matchbook thickness if i recall correctly...


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## chase84

Yes a business card is pretty standard for setting the gap but I've never set the gap on one inside the flywheel that seems a bit difficult as far as getting access


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## tntatro

chase84 said:


> Update...i can keep the saw running feathering the throttle but it is missing the whole time its running...any ideas?


Have you tried different carburetor settings? Mine won't even start if the L needle is 1 turn out. It has to be 3/4 turn out and it runs perfect. If my H needle is too low then it won't idle and will flood after I throttle it, if it's too high it won't start well. Possible air leak in fuel line? I had to goop some Threebond on the carburetor fitting last time I cleaned it because the fuel line wouldn't fit back on as well as it was originally. Also, check the muffler for carbon build up if you haven't already.


----------



## foggysail

chase84 said:


> Yes a business card is pretty standard for setting the gap but I've never set the gap on one inside the flywheel that seems a bit difficult as far as getting access



The gap is fixed and not adjustable. Now as to the coil, it could be breaking down and arcing internally although I doubt it. If it has an internal short......even between just two wires, the coil will not work at all, nothing, zilch, nada! There are two so called coils that are used in the ignition. The first is a charging inductor used to provide the storage energy into a capacitor.....yes, the capacitor that you changed.

Timing is determined by the rotating magnets which charge another but smaller capacitor up to the voltage needed to trigger an SCR (silicon controlled rectifier). When the SCR is triggered, it provides a current path for the charge on the energy storage capacitor to discharge. Current flows from the capacitor through one winding in the other "coil" which is not a coil at all but a high voltage transformer and back to the capacitor. The output from that transformer is the voltage that sparks the spark plug.

The other possibilities that can create trouble is the shaft key that positions the flywheel. If that got sheared or broken, the saw. The capacitor value is another. The cap used in your pictures looks like the right cap and it should be 1uf...most likely it is from looking at your pictures.

Please keep us informed as you continue to trouble shoot your problem.


----------



## chase84

Well so far ive got a new plug wire/boot and clip that will be installed tomorrow (working swing shift tonight) so we'll see where that gets me....its not a carb issue as I've had it running and tried making adjustments with no change it just misses REAL bad when throttled up (the only way itll run) and it doesn't idle at all. are there timing marks i can look at to make sure the ignition plate is where its supposed to be (i bought the saw in its current non running condition)


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## chase84

http://m.ebay.com/itm/161203941323


These are what i bought


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## chase84

It is not a fuel problem, ive been back through the carb and its perfectly clean, metering lever set right, both l and h are 1 turn out which should get it running enough to fine tune. Installed a new plug wire/boot and clip still missing very bad....played with timing and got it to start a little easier but it still misses like crazy. Not sure what else to do here...in case anyone is wondering the compression is just fine...it is an ignition problem i know, just not sure what the next logical check would be.


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## foggysail

The "fix" represents the one known high failure component in the ignition. So it is conceivable other components can/did fail although to my knowledge it will be a first. Guess the only way to to eliminate the ignition is to borrow a temporary replacement and try it. That is the only option I can think of to suggest. Good luck--

Foggy


----------



## chase84

Think i may go this route...anyone tried these?

http://m.ebay.com/itm/190590733267?nav=WATCHING_ACTIVE


----------



## foggysail

chase84 said:


> Think i may go this route...anyone tried these?
> 
> http://m.ebay.com/itm/190590733267?nav=WATCHING_ACTIVE



Thought of something else in the maybe category. My outboards (2 cycle) all have internal gas filters located in the fuel tank. I have no clue if the Stihl uses an internal filter or not but if they do.......I would jump on that for sure. In my ouboards, the filter is attached to a rubber like hose that floats around in the fuel tank. I think if you can shake the saw without fuel, you should be able to hear it rattle.

I would also try squirting some carburetor cleaner or starting fluid into the carb while the saw is running to see if it normalizes for a couple of seconds.


----------



## foggysail

foggysail said:


> Thought of something else in the maybe category. My outboards (2 cycle) all have internal gas filters located in the fuel tank. I have no clue if the Stihl uses an internal filter or not but if they do.......I would jump on that for sure. In my ouboards, the filter is attached to a rubber like hose that floats around in the fuel tank. I think if you can shake the saw without fuel, you should be able to hear it rattle.
> 
> I would also try squirting some carburetor cleaner or starting fluid into the carb while the saw is running to see if it normalizes for a couple of seconds.


----------



## foggysail

chase84 said:


> Think i may go this route...anyone tried these?
> 
> http://m.ebay.com/itm/190590733267?nav=WATCHING_ACTIVE




I WOULD USE THIS A LAST RESORT ONLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## chase84

I know its not a fuel issue...ive even dumped fuel down the carb and yes itll fire up but it still MISSES. One all the saws ive worked on (alot) a saw that misses always has a spark/ignition problem. Trust me i dont want to give up and pay $110 for something i know nothing about.


----------



## tntatro

chase84 said:


> It is not a fuel problem, ive been back through the carb and its perfectly clean, metering lever set right, both l and h are 1 turn out which should get it running enough to fine tune. Installed a new plug wire/boot and clip still missing very bad....played with timing and got it to start a little easier but it still misses like crazy. Not sure what else to do here...in case anyone is wondering the compression is just fine...it is an ignition problem i know, just not sure what the next logical check would be.


I don't know anything about timing but did you look on the "Chain Saw Collectors Corner" site at the Stihl 056ave? It says .098" to .106" before TDC for timing. I don't even know what that means or if it helps you any. Sounds like you know way more about small engines than I do but on my 056, 1 turn out on H and L and I'd be lucky if it starts and if it did it wouldn't run any better than yours. I screwed with it for ten minutes after I got it back together and got a little frustrated, then remembered the L has to be 3/4 out and H 1-1/4. I was putting gas in the carb to start it and holding the throttle while it ran like crap and stalled immediately after letting off the throttle. After I turned the L to 3/4 it started and ran fine right away. Probably not the same issue with yours but maybe worth a try if you haven't already. The side of my saw says 1-1/4 for H and 1 turn for L but that doesn't work for my saw.


----------



## foggysail

chase84 said:


> I know its not a fuel issue...ive even dumped fuel down the carb and yes itll fire up but it still MISSES. One all the saws ive worked on (alot) a saw that misses always has a spark/ignition problem. Trust me i dont want to give up and pay $110 for something i know nothing about.




Any updates??? Your feedback is important to others who may want to implement the "fix".


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## chase84

We'll I was only into the saw $50 total and spent WAY too much time screwing around with it, so it went on eBay as a parts saw and sold for $200. This is the first saw I've given up on and I hate the fact that I did. but i can't spend hours and hours and $$ on it like that. Still made $150 and I just bought a blown up 064 yesterday with a 32" b&c that's cherry for $180 and will be putting an 066 topend In it. Sorry my results really haven't helped.


----------



## foggysail

chase84 said:


> We'll I was only into the saw $50 total and spent WAY too much time screwing around with it, so it went on eBay as a parts saw and sold for $200. This is the first saw I've given up on and I hate the fact that I did. but i can't spend hours and hours and $$ on it like that. Still made $150 and I just bought a blown up 064 yesterday with a 32" b&c that's cherry for $180 and will be putting an 066 topend In it. Sorry my results really haven't helped.



I can relate to your time spent frustration! Thank you for your prompt response!!

Foggy


----------



## chase84

Ya...I just hate giving up on something and feeling like the saw beat me lol, oh we'll can't win them all- still made money in the end so it's not all bad.


----------



## William Balaska

tntatro said:


> I don't know anything about timing but did you look on the "Chain Saw Collectors Corner" site at the Stihl 056ave? It says .098" to .106" before TDC for timing. I don't even know what that means or if it helps you any. Sounds like you know way more about small engines than I do but on my 056, 1 turn out on H and L and I'd be lucky if it starts and if it did it wouldn't run any better than yours. I screwed with it for ten minutes after I got it back together and got a little frustrated, then remembered the L has to be 3/4 out and H 1-1/4. I was putting gas in the carb to start it and holding the throttle while it ran like crap and stalled immediately after letting off the throttle. After I turned the L to 3/4 it started and ran fine right away. Probably not the same issue with yours but maybe worth a try if you haven't already. The side of my saw says 1-1/4 for H and 1 turn for L but that doesn't work for my saw.


It has a vacuum leak. Your seals must be worn out. Pressure and vacuum test it. Money it leaks.


----------



## tntatro

William Balaska said:


> It has a vacuum leak. Your seals must be worn out. Pressure and vacuum test it. Money it leaks.


Thanks for that info. I suspected that but forgot to test it last time I had it apart. Since I've had it I have to re-tune it once in a while. Then I found out the L needle was vibrating open over time. As long as I tune it back to 3/4 it runs perfect. I recently noticed that if I turn both needles all the way in, the L is a little farther out than the H. Not sure if that is normal for that carb or if the spring was replaced with a different one making the adjustment a 1/4 turn off + vibrating loose. Hopefully that is all but I'll have to check the vacuum for sure next time I get a chance. Being inexperienced with working on these things I also thought maybe the adjustments were slightly different because the cylinder looks as though it had been seized and refurbished in the past. Has scoring and heavy sanding under the ports. Still runs great and has decent power. I mill with it all the time. Does replacing the seals in an 056 require special tools? Is this a job a novice could handle fairly easily?


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

Not sure I'd want to cut my teeth on an 045/056 as my first seal replacement job, but plenty of folks would probably say otherwise...., and are around here to help if ya decide to go for it. As for tools, the clutch should be removed with the proper tool and the flywheel should be pulled with the correct style puller as well. 

I did a total rebuild of an 045 this past winter myself. Be more than happy to forward a service manual and IPL should you decide to take the plunge.

At least your ignition works!


----------



## tntatro

PogoInTheWoods said:


> Not sure I'd want to cut my teeth on an 045/056 as my first seal replacement job, but plenty of folks would probably say otherwise...., and are around here to help if ya decide to go for it. As for tools, the clutch should be removed with the proper tool and the flywheel should be pulled with the correct style puller as well.
> 
> I did a total rebuild of an 045 this past winter myself. Be more than happy to forward a service manual and IPL should you decide to take the plunge.
> 
> At least your ignition works!


Thanks, my vacuum/pressure tester needs new seals so I can't test it yet. I had the flywheel off when I fixed the ignition. Not easy but I managed. I don't remember if I had the clutch off this saw yet but I usually either put a ratchet on and give good swift strike or put clean nylon rope in the cylinder instead of a piston stop. What about the seals themselves, is there a special tool to remove them and re-install new ones? Hopefully I won't need to. I've been using it for four years this way and have been pretty happy with it but I'd like to keep it in good condition. I bought a piston and cylinder for it recently but it's the 56mm and this saw is a 54mm. I hope to make it fit some day for an upgrade.


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

We should probably start a separate thread on the subject to keep this one on track for its intended purpose.


----------



## tntatro

PogoInTheWoods said:


> We should probably start a separate thread on the subject to keep this one on track for its intended purpose.


Good point, I'll start a new thread on the subject if/when I need the help.


----------



## Alex the man.

Hey I have a old Stihl 056.. I believe. Its in my picture, as its all faded I'm not entirely sure what model it is exactly but the part numbers start with 1115. But it was sitting behind the shop in the dirt for over 10 years. I recently took it into the shop to see if I could use any parts off of it.. Working on a Husqvarna 350 my Dad has a Stihl MS290 too. But I took the spark plug out and I was like what the heck! it looks brand new! it turns over just fine. I rewound the spring for the recoil started and used some WD40 and that works too. Drained and cleaned the gas tank out it wasn't too bad just really really old oily smelly crap lol. Carb doesn't look too bad not the best that is for sure but I think it might work. Thanks for your tip about the ball peen hammer and another hammer for getting the dang flywheel off, it was a life saver! I tried everything else nothing worked.. I tried that and it only took a minute. I ordered the part and of course its going to take while to get here. But hopefully it works for me too! I must admit though getting a chainsaw going that has been sitting in the dirt for 10 years is an amazing feat. The muffler is cracked but I can fix that. The compression seems to be good the cylinder is very clean I don't think it had all that many hours on it. The kill switch wire had no insulation the whole way too! So who knows the capacitor may not even be bad but I'm still gonna do your fix.


----------



## foggysail

Welcome! There are many knowledgeable guys here in the forum, all willing to share their experience to help others. My fix is one that anybody can implement without technical smarts. Just take your time, follow the instructions and you will be fine.......and so will your saw.

But curious---- how did you find this thread?

Foggy


----------



## Alex the man.

foggysail said:


> Welcome! There are many knowledgeable guys here in the forum, all willing to share their experience to help others. My fix is one that anybody can implement without technical smarts. Just take your time, follow the instructions and you will be fine.......and so will your saw.
> 
> But curious---- how did you find this thread?
> 
> Foggy



I found it when I was googling for spark problems on the 056. I actually saw your post to another thread on this site, linking this thread. And yes it is a very easy fix!


----------



## Alex the man.

I finished soldiering the wires and such on the ignition.. got a little carried away with the glue lol


----------



## foggysail

Looks fine! Give it a try--


----------



## Alex the man.

foggysail said:


> Looks fine! Give it a try--



Just ordered the capacitor yesterday and expected delivery date is July 16th to August 19th. So I can't test it for a while yet sadly! I had some electronics in the shop but didn't find any of the right capacitors.


----------



## Alex the man.

Got the capacitor today and installed it in less then a hour. Put the fly wheel on without the nut then put the pull start on pulled and got spark.. pulled again no spark? Took it back apart and the kill switch wire was too close to the fly wheel on the top and it wore though the insulation and shorted the wire out on the fly wheel. Pushed the wire down put it back together and have Nice blue sparks!! This really works for pretty cheap too! Somebody give Foggysail a medal!


----------



## Alex the man.

It runs!! Thanks Foggy!


----------



## foggysail

Your're welcome, Alex. Enjoy......


----------



## grobe3625

foggysail said:


> Rick-- thanks for the feedback! Did you have any troubles implementing the fix? Others will certainly be interested especially if they own a "dead" ignition.
> 
> Stihlx8--- SPREAD THE WORD!!! Lets see if we can put this ignition issue behind us. AND YOU WILL "GIVE" THE CAPACITOR AWAY???? He must be a good friend..........you could sell that little blue cap for $25 + : - )
> 
> Foggy


Hey Foggy: I'm a mechanic and NOT an electrician but I'm anxious to try your fix. Do you know if these capacitors will work?: 
*Metallized Polypropylene Film Capacitor 400V 1UF 105 105J CBB22*
I found 50 of them on ebay for $9, item# 181750826560. 
Thank you so very much for all your time, efforts, guidance, and mostly patience.


----------



## foggysail

grobe3625 said:


> Hey Foggy: I'm a mechanic and NOT an electrician but I'm anxious to try your fix. Do you know if these capacitors will work?:
> *Metallized Polypropylene Film Capacitor 400V 1UF 105 105J CBB22*
> I found 50 of them on ebay for $9, item# 181750826560.
> Thank you so very much for all your time, efforts, guidance, and mostly patience.




It has the right material and voltage ratings. I would give it a try even though it does not seem to be pulse rated. Capacitors are essentially two pieces of electrical conductor with an insulator sandwiched between them. There are all different types but for what we need require the insulating material to be polypropylene for various reason which is above the interests of those here.

They are constructed ether by stacking many of the sandwiches and tying the ends together so each of the sandwiches are connected in parallel. The stacking technique requires greater manufacturing effort than other methods. The other common way is to have three rolls of material, two being conductors and the other an insulator of some type and wind them together on a bobbin.

The winding method has a slight problem. The windings themselves create a coil which has an inductive value. Fine for most applications but may not be fine in pulse applications.

I would still give them a try. I long ago learned that one can philosophise the poop out of an electrical circuit only to find it works differently than the philosopher suggested. I had a plaque on my desk for young engineers who worked under my direction. It read "you cannot bull$hit the circuit." Physics always wins out.

Foggy


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

Hi, Foggy. You sure have helped a lot of people with your effort so far..., and I'm guessing a whole lot more as the word gets around. 

Any chance you'd care to explore the possibility of a similar fix for the smaller style ignition module mentioned in the Pioneer thread over at S -A-W_ H-A-W-G-Z? (I recall you offering to dissect one of the SEM modules for a possible solution if provided with a couple.) Anyway, the "blue coil" is notorious for random and frequent failure and is like hen's teeth to find anywhere. If there's a similar fix for it as there is for the Bosch, you'd have even more new friends!

I can't post the actual link here as I'm sure it will get heavily censored or deleted, but the coil subject has recently popped up again over there on page 78 toward the bottom and I also posted a cross link back to this thread on page 80 suggesting you may be a resource for a solution to the "blue coil madness".

Great work, and nice to see more folks having success with your solution!


----------



## foggysail

PogoInTheWoods said:


> Hi, Foggy. You sure have helped a lot of people with your effort so far..., and I'm guessing a whole lot more as the word gets around.
> 
> Any chance you'd care to explore the possibility of a similar fix for the smaller style ignition module mentioned in the Pioneer thread over at S -A-W_ H-A-W-G-Z? (I recall you offering to dissect one of the SEM modules for a possible solution if provided with a couple.) Anyway, the "blue coil" is notorious for random and frequent failure and is like hen's teeth to find anywhere. If there's a similar fix for it as there is for the Bosch, you'd have even more new friends!
> 
> I can't post the actual link here as I'm sure it will get heavily censored or deleted, but the coil subject has recently popped up again over there on page 78 toward the bottom and I also posted a cross link back to this thread on page 80 suggesting you may be a resource for a solution to the "blue coil madness".
> 
> Great work, and nice to see more folks having success with your solution!




Earlier this year I offered to look at a Sems. Someone offered to send one during June I believe. But Summers are treasured here and I responded to that person that I would/could look at a Sems but not before the end of August. Just will not have time before then.

And thank you for offering a way for me to gain new friends, really not needed though.....That was not my intention with the Bosch fix. It was to help others even if they are not friendly : -)


----------



## scallywag

foggysail said:


> Earlier this year I offered to look at a Sems. Someone offered to send one during June I believe.


 
That someone would be me.....The reason I've not followed this up is because there is no way I've found of opening up the SEM module as fitted to the Stihl 056 without destroying it, believe me I've tried!
The internals are completely enveloped in the same material (resin) as the outer casing. I do have another failed 056 mag SEM if you would like to have a look.


----------



## foggysail

scallywag said:


> That someone would be me.....The reason I've not followed this up is because there is no way I've found of opening up the SEM module as fitted to the Stihl 056 without destroying it, believe me I've tried!
> The internals are completely enveloped in the same material (resin) as the outer casing. I do have another failed 056 mag SEM if you would like to have a look.




AHHhhhhh you read these posts! OK, I'll send my address to you but expect nothing before mid-late September. If the unit is completely resistant to opening .... well then there may not be any hope but I will look at it.


----------



## scallywag

foggysail said:


> AHHhhhhh you read these posts!


 
Indeed I do!.......And have follow your excellent efforts from page one!

I think the SEM will be a hard nut to crack!


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

scallywag said:


> Indeed I do!.......And have follow your excellent efforts from page one!
> 
> I think the SEM will be a hard nut to crack!



Likewise on the following. And I tend to agree on the SEM, but..., ya never know.

And thanks to Foggy, converting to a Bosch setup is now a solid option instead of just a tit-for-tat crap shoot between that and another SEM....which _can_ still be had
from a dealer, but they aren't cheap....around $180 last time I checked (if I remember correctly).


----------



## Diesel Freak

I need an 056 Bosch ignition core. I'm ready to dig into my basket case and my ignition consists of a flywheel, stator plate 2 rough looking coils. Not enough there to do the foggysail repair. Does anyone have a spare they are willing to part with? 

I had this thought about the 056 ignition problem. Ignitions all serve the same purpose and operate on the same principals so in theory, couldn't you get done readily available ignition and modify it to work? I feel like the recoil would be the other side of what might not let this work. I don't pretend to fully understand how ignitions work (voodoo magic perhaps) but in my mind you could find one similar, open up the center hole with the right sized tapered reamer, and then modify the coil to mount to the chassis. I know that if this was feasible, someone would have done it by now but I have scoured the interwebs and never have i found discussion about it... until now!

Joseph


----------



## scallywag

Diesel Freak said:


> I need an 056 Bosch ignition core.


 
Try placing an add in the trading post in this forum, I'm sure something will turn up.
Good luck.


----------



## olyman

Diesel Freak said:


> I need an 056 Bosch ignition core. I'm ready to dig into my basket case and my ignition consists of a flywheel, stator plate 2 rough looking coils. Not enough there to do the foggysail repair. Does anyone have a spare they are willing to part with?
> 
> I had this thought about the 056 ignition problem. Ignitions all serve the same purpose and operate on the same principals so in theory, couldn't you get done readily available ignition and modify it to work? I feel like the recoil would be the other side of what might not let this work. I don't pretend to fully understand how ignitions work (voodoo magic perhaps) but in my mind you could find one similar, open up the center hole with the right sized tapered reamer, and then modify the coil to mount to the chassis. I know that if this was feasible, someone would have done it by now but I have scoured the interwebs and never have i found discussion about it... until now!
> 
> Joseph


newer type coils,,not the points one, may or may not, have a built in suppressor. by that, I mean, that the timing changes according to rpm...I tried this on a olympyk saw,,with a identical LOOKING coil.. no go.. the internal timing was different... new coil...wouldn't even start...nor pop..


----------



## Diesel Freak

olyman said:


> newer type coils,,not the points one, may or may not, have a built in suppressor. by that, I mean, that the timing changes according to rpm...I tried this on a olympyk saw,,with a identical LOOKING coil.. no go.. the internal timing was different... new coil...wouldn't even start...nor pop..



Like I said, voodoo magic!

Joseph


----------



## Rx7man

If you can't get them cheapos on ebay, you can get them through Mouser electronics, but they're $7 each... Vishay is a good company though, maybe they'll last better.
http://ca.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...=sGAEpiMZZMv1cc3ydrPrF6b39BhxIu4vTPelFB1kQag=


----------



## CoreyB

Hey guys I recently found and put back in service an 056 super. I have not had any issues described and cut two cords of oak today with out any issues. I plan on using this for a 36" chainsaw mill. 
My question would anyone suggest doing this as preventive maintenance or just work her until a problem arises? Thanks for your input


----------



## Rx7man

Are you going to be on deadlines to cut wood? If you're just cutting a little for yourself, I'd run it as it is, perhaps get the parts in so at least you don't need to wait for the parts.


----------



## CoreyB

I am just using it for my self. The plan is to build some furniture and a cabin. I will order the parts today then. Just in case.


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

Assuming the saw indeed has a Bosch ignition, of course.


----------



## 54stude

foggysail said:


> Earlier this year I offered to look at a Sems. Someone offered to send one during June I believe. But Summers are treasured here and I responded to that person that I would/could look at a Sems but not before the end of August. Just will not have time before then.
> 
> And thank you for offering a way for me to gain new friends, really not needed though.....That was not my intention with the Bosch fix. It was to help others even if they are not friendly : -)



I have 2 dead SEM modules here, and I look forward to learning how these things fail also. Thanks again foggysail!


----------



## CoreyB

PogoInTheWoods said:


> Assuming the saw indeed has a Bosch ignition, of course.


Would an 056 super have anything other then a bosh ignition?


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

It could be a Bosch or a SEM ignition setup. A means to make the SEM module "fixable" as Foggy has done with the Bosch has yet to be achieved, hence the previous post referencing the available bad SEM modules for experimentation when Foggy has the time. That said, if your saw has a SEM module (that will eventually go bad too), the Bosch ignition is interchangeable (given the corresponding flywheel), though the SEM module was still available as NOS when I checked with a dealer last winter. Not cheap, but available. Not sure about the Bosch module, but the fix has certainly proven to be the way to go if you do have one that goes belly up.


----------



## foggysail

GUYS--- I AM LOOKING FOR SOME HELP!!!!!!!

I received a SEMs ignition back in August and the shipping box got lost so I cannot thank whomever it was that sent it. Today I tried dissecting it and literally destroyed it but I did find a capacitor in the beast that could be the problem. So I am looking for a couple of dead SEMs to pull apart after benefiting from the info gained from the one I have.

Again I must be clear! No promises for a solution although at this time I will/can offer hope, whatever that means. There is no way I can get one of these things apart because the potting material does not lend itself to be removed without destroying everything inside. So If I am able to come back with a suggestion for someone to try, assuming that the circuitry is essentially the same as the Bosch we are all familiar with along with a simple fix. Further, I don't have the means to test one if I can offer a fix. I cannot even say that the suspicious internal capacitor can be tested because most likely I will literally destroy it while ripping the unit apart.

I am sure there will be somebody out there who will be able to implement and test any fix I suggest. At this time, I believe the SEMs will be able to use the same capacitor (or one with a smaller capacity) than what we now use.

If we can find success with this dog, a lot of folks are going to be happy. And of course, my help remains free to all.

Foggy


----------



## scallywag

foggysail said:


> GUYS--- I AM LOOKING FOR SOME HELP!!!!!!!
> 
> I received a SEMs ignition back in August and the shipping box got lost so I cannot thank whomever it was that sent it. Today I tried dissecting it and literally destroyed it but I did find a capacitor in the beast that could be the problem. So I am looking for a couple of dead SEMs to pull apart after benefiting from the info gained from the one I have


 
Your welcome!.....Sounds like you ran into the same problems trying to remove the casing as I did back in post #369........


----------



## scallywag

scallywag said:


> That someone would be me.....The reason I've not followed this up is because there is no way I've found of opening up the SEM module as fitted to the Stihl 056 without destroying it, believe me I've tried!
> The internals are completely enveloped in the same material (resin) as the outer casing. I do have another failed 056 mag SEM if you would like to have a look.


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

We are talking about the black module and not the stator plate needing dissection, correct? I may know a guy who has a method to "before/after" test them if indeed that is the component containing the cap. He may also have a few donor modules available for experimentation.


----------



## foggysail

Thanks Scallywag. As I stated in my above post, there is hope. My immediate problem is to define which end of the pulse capacitor that I found is anchored to ground as it would be if this circuit is similar to the Bosch. 

So there it is. Two things can happen. First there is the possibility of a fix and second, things can just remain the same. My effort is to help others and only that. Believe it when I say I have plenty of things to do besides finding fixes for chainsaw ignitions. There are no bucks in this for me, no saws that I need to fix for my own use....mine have the bosch fix and work. So if there is enough interest out there in the great beyond, somebody will have to send me a couple of SEMs. It is entirely up to those who follow this thread. 

Foggy


----------



## scallywag

PogoInTheWoods said:


> We are talking about the black module and not the stator plate needing dissection, correct? I may know a guy who has a method to "before/after" test them if indeed that is the component containing the cap. He may also have a few donor modules available for experimentation.


 
This one, the SEM as fitted to the 056 Magnum.


----------



## scallywag

foggysail said:


> So there it is. Two things can happen. First there is the possibility of a fix and second, things can just remain the same. My effort is to help others and only that. Believe it when I say I have plenty of things to do besides finding fixes for chainsaw ignitions. There are no bucks in this for me, no saws that I need to fix for my own use....mine have the bosch fix and work. So if there is enough interest out there in the great beyond, somebody will have to send me a couple of SEMs. It is entirely up to those who follow this thread.


 
Foggy, your efforts are greatly appreciated by many!!....I'm sure some other members will sending you dead SEM's to dissect.


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

scallywag said:


> This one, the SEM as fitted to the 056 Magnum.
> View attachment 450737



I believe this is the more common one and is the version to which I'm referring....










​


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

scallywag said:


> Foggy, your efforts are greatly appreciated by many!!...



Multi-ditto. Thanks for your efforts, Foggy.


----------



## olyman

and tho I only own a 090,,which uses points,, it would be nice,,if someone knew what would break that potting material down,,so foggysail could dissect it,,without destruction!!! I tried breaking down a ford square box module once, to do the same thing. I ruined, a perfectly good snapon screwdriver!!!


----------



## ILikesEmGreen

olyman said:


> and tho I only own a 090,,which uses points,, it would be nice,,if someone knew what would break that potting material down,,so foggysail could dissect it,,without destruction!!! I tried breaking down a ford square box module once, to do the same thing. I ruined, a perfectly good snapon screwdriver!!!


Pottingsolutions.com

Look under potting tips. They have link to people who provide potting removal products. Also says that some of it can either be heated to remove, or if it's a high Tg potting material, cold will make it brittle and it will shatter. Couldn't post actual link from work computer, but the info is there.

Sent from my E6782 using Tapatalk


----------



## olyman

ILikesEmGreen said:


> Pottingsolutions.com
> 
> Look under potting tips. They have link to people who provide potting removal products. Also says that some of it can either be heated to remove, or if it's a high Tg potting material, cold will make it brittle and it will shatter. Couldn't post actual link from work computer, but the info is there.
> 
> Sent from my E6782 using Tapatalk


 cooooooll!!!!


----------



## foggysail

Dustin sent a PM to me pertaining to his fix that didn't "fix" anything. So this post is intended to answer his questions as best I can along with sharing with the others here in the forum. I feel its important to not answer technical questions in PMs. They belong in the general forum so all can benefit.

OK Dustin-- you asked how the shut down switch functions. The switch electrically connects a wire that originates in the potting material to electrical ground. This electrical short stops the ignition from working.

I looked back at P3 to see if I addressed it back then and found that I should have given greater emphasis to the switch wiring. THAT WIRE NEEDS TO EITHER BE REPLACED OR REMOVED AT THE POTTING MATERIAL!!! The electrical insulation on that wire is crap and was intended to satisfy environmentalist clamor to save humanity. Mercedes uses the same poop for their engine wiring... think it was in the 1997s. The wire self destroys in a heated environment resulting in big bucks to repair.

I did show 3 wires, one black that I used to replace my switch wire and 2 yellow wires that go the the capacitor. So Dustin, you have a choice if you have not already replaced that wire. You can either cut it at the potting material (recommended) and defeat the switch completely or replace it. And another thing about the crappy switch. It also can fail. If it fails shorted, the saw will never start.

If you elect to remove the wire your new problem is "how do I shut the saw off?" I use the choke on mine. It works just as fast as the switch. So let us know if you find success with your project.

Foggy


----------



## Dostin

foggysail said:


> Dustin sent a PM to me pertaining to his fix that didn't "fix" anything. So this post is intended to answer his questions as best I can along with sharing with the others here in the forum. I feel its important to not answer technical questions in PMs. They belong in the general forum so all can benefit.
> 
> OK Dustin-- you asked how the shut down switch functions. The switch electrically connects a wire that originates in the potting material to electrical ground. This electrical short stops the ignition from working.
> 
> I looked back at P3 to see if I addressed it back then and found that I should have given greater emphasis to the switch wiring. THAT WIRE NEEDS TO EITHER BE REPLACED OR REMOVED AT THE POTTING MATERIAL!!! The electrical insulation on that wire is crap and was intended to satisfy environmentalist clamor to save humanity. Mercedes uses the same poop for their engine wiring... think it was in the 1997s. The wire self destroys in a heated environment resulting in big bucks to repair.
> 
> I did show 3 wires, one black that I used to replace my switch wire and 2 yellow wires that go the the capacitor. So Dustin, you have a choice if you have not already replaced that wire. You can either cut it at the potting material (recommended) and defeat the switch completely or replace it. And another thing about the crappy switch. It also can fail. If it fails shorted, the saw will never start.
> 
> If you elect to remove the wire your new problem is "how do I shut the saw off?" I use the choke on mine. It works just as fast as the switch. So let us know if you find success with your project.
> 
> Foggy


Thanks for moving the message here Foggy... When I was checking for spark the switch wire was hanging out in the air ungrounded, so this should not have been affecting the lack of spark.

So the lack of spark is interesting b/c while trying to hold a partially rebuilt saw and pull the cord I was shocked in the process and not the plug. This leads me to think that something is working but I may have a ground issue...?

Could I not have cut the circuit enough where the new wire is soldered on? This would make everything grounded? What's the best way to check this with a multimeter?

Thanks for the help...


----------



## kwhite87

Incredible! I can't wait to try it on the 056 I have sitting in a box


----------



## foggysail

Dostin said:


> Thanks for moving the message here Foggy... When I was checking for spark the switch wire was hanging out in the air ungrounded, so this should not have been affecting the lack of spark.
> 
> So the lack of spark is interesting b/c while trying to hold a partially rebuilt saw and pull the cord I was shocked in the process and not the plug. This leads me to think that something is working but I may have a ground issue...?
> 
> Could I not have cut the circuit enough where the new wire is soldered on? This would make everything grounded? What's the best way to check this with a multimeter?
> 
> Thanks for the help...




OK, appears the ignition is developing a high voltage pulse for the plug.......just not getting to the plug. Probably the plug wire itself. Not that its defective but that its not properly pushed/twisted into the mounting socket on the high voltage transformer. I found the mating arrangement is sucky but of course there is little space to make teh attachment. Try reinserting the plug wire into the transformer and see if that fixes your problem. If you need to replace the wire, Ebay is a good place to look. I think you should be able to salvage the wire you now have.

EDIT: Be careful with the switch wire!!!! The insulation will crumble in your hand allowing it to short out to ground in places that are difficult to see. Either replace it or remove it for reliable operation. And remember if you remove it, the only easy way to shut the saw off that I can think of is via the choke


----------



## Dostin

Update...Still no spark 

Cut the switch wire off at the potting material and hot glued overtop to prevent any arching. Checked the plug wire and everything seems to be good there. Thinking at this point I just have a dead unit. Does anyone know if these work: http://www.ebay.com/itm/190590733267?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

or if anyone has a dead Bosch ignition they want to part with, I would try it again....


----------



## foggysail

Dustin- if you got a shock "touching" the ignition, it is functioning. I don't know of an easy way to get at the center pin on the pulse transformer the black thing into which the high voltage plug wire is inserted. And yes, there could be something else at fault with your ignition. 

It is important to remember that when you are looking for an arc in the plug, *THE BODY OF THE PLUG MUST BE GROUNDED*. A clip wire to ground from the plug body (not the center pin of teh plug) works.

Couple of suggestions if you are testing with the plug body properly grounded. First, examine the transformer especially around where the plug wire enters it. What you are looking for are carbon track marks that provide a current path (along with arcing maybe) for the high voltage ignition pulse.

Whether you see anything or not, put a light spray of WD40 on the transformer especially around where the plug wire enters it. The oil will provide insulation for any arc path. 

Is there anyway that you can push an insulated wire into where the plug wire when seated resides? If so, try removing the insulation from the tip of the new wire and plug it into the transformer. Consider using hot glue to temporally hold it in place. The wire should be about a foot in length. So if you get this far, take the other end of the wire and point it towards a grounded surface on your saw.....cylinder head for example and pull the starting cord. This is a test of teh spark plug wire itself. If you DO have a spark jumping from the new wire, then of course the plug wire has failed. 

Let us know how you make out

Foggy


----------



## shu7241

Have read these posts from day one to present, very interesting. For foggysail. Do you have a schematic of the stihl ignition system? If so could you put it online for the rest of us to see. I have friends who tinker with small engines and they have never heard of this fix. Thanks. Bill


----------



## kwhite87

Hey foggysail, I am having issues with an 051 Bosch unit. Looks similar but isn't the same. Have you fiddled with any of those before or suggest maybe I dig into it?

Edit: it may not even be Bosch.


----------



## foggysail

kwhite87 said:


> Hey foggysail, I am having issues with an 051 Bosch unit. Looks similar but isn't the same. Have you fiddled with any of those before or suggest maybe I dig into it?
> 
> Edit: it may not even be Bosch.
> View attachment 468029




No idea what that ignition is; sorry!


----------



## foggysail

shu7241 said:


> Have read these posts from day one to present, very interesting. For foggysail. Do you have a schematic of the stihl ignition system? If so could you put it online for the rest of us to see. I have friends who tinker with small engines and they have never heard of this fix. Thanks. Bill




Bill-- I do have the schematic in a file someplace. I'll look for it and post it. It is not very complicated. Just remember, I ripped apart an ignition to learn how it was electrically constructed. I was not concerned about component values after I located teh failure mechanism which is the "capacitor" that all are now familiar with.


----------



## shu7241

Thanks for your reply. I am sure your fix works, I am just curious about grounding one side of the capacitor. Isn't that what the second lead does. I have looked on Google imagines at other electronic ignitions and haven't seen any where the charging capacitor is grounded on one side. I am not being argumentative, just trying to understand. Thanks. Bill


----------



## hotshot

shu7241 said:


> Thanks for your reply. I am sure your fix works, I am just curious about grounding one side of the capacitor. Isn't that what the second lead does. I have looked on Google imagines at other electronic ignitions and haven't seen any where the charging capacitor is grounded on one side. I am not being argumentative, just trying to understand. Thanks. Bill



See the attachment in post #96 on page 5, it is very close if not the exact CDI


----------



## foggysail

Hotshot-- I just tried to pull the attachment, somehow it didn't come up. I do though remember looking at it after your post so its most likely pretty much the same as what I found in my analysis. In any case, I will try to find the schematic in my files and post it.


Bill-- You don't have all the circuitry. First, a capacitor charges to some voltage ( V) as long as there is a current ( i) flowing into it whereby

V = (i)x(t)/c where t is in seconds and i in amperes which itself is qxt where q is coulombs and t in seconds; c is in farads and V is in volts. For a constant current flowing into the capacitor, there is a linear voltage rise. Note that the smaller value of c, the greater change in voltage for a given i and t but see the formula for energy below. Once the capacitor is charged.......think of it as a bucket fulled with coulombs.... it will remain charged until it is discharged.

The reason fro having one side of the capacitor....IN THIS CIRCUIT ONLY or similar circuits.........is that ground....which conducts.... is a path for the capacitor to discharge through.

The ignition circuit charges the capacitor through magnetic coupling and a diode that allows current to only flow in one direction, into the capacitor. But a charged capacitor is of no value unless the charge can be used. So to make use of the charged cap (energy = cxv^2 or the capacitor value times the voltage charged squared) the charged cap is discharged with an electronic switch called an SCR, silicon controlled rectifier through the high voltage pulse transformer whose output is a ratio of the primary winding and the secondary winding to produce the high voltage pulse that causes an arc in the spark plug.

Save above until I can find teh circuit schematic and then it should make sense.

Foggy


----------



## shu7241

foggysail said:


> Hotshot-- I just tried to pull the attachment, somehow it didn't come up. I do though remember looking at it after your post so its most likely pretty much the same as what I found in my analysis. In any case, I will try to find the schematic in my files and post it.
> 
> 
> Bill-- You don't have all the circuitry. First, a capacitor charges to some voltage ( V) as long as there is a current ( i) flowing into it whereby
> 
> V = (i)x(t)/c where t is in seconds and i in amperes which itself is qxt where q is coulombs and t in seconds; c is in farads and V is in volts. For a constant current flowing into the capacitor, there is a linear voltage rise. Note that the smaller value of c, the greater change in voltage for a given i and t but see the formula for energy below. Once the capacitor is charged.......think of it as a bucket fulled with coulombs.... it will remain charged until it is discharged.
> 
> The reason fro having one side of the capacitor....IN THIS CIRCUIT ONLY or similar circuits.........is that ground....which conducts.... is a path for the capacitor to discharge through.
> 
> The ignition circuit charges the capacitor through magnetic coupling and a diode that allows current to only flow in one direction, into the capacitor. But a charged capacitor is of no value unless the charge can be used. So to make use of the charged cap (energy = cxv^2 or the capacitor value times the voltage charged squared) the charged cap is discharged with an electronic switch called an SCR, silicon controlled rectifier through the high voltage pulse transformer whose output is a ratio of the primary winding and the secondary winding to produce the high voltage pulse that causes an arc in the spark plug.
> 
> Save above until I can find teh circuit schematic and then it should make sense.
> 
> Foggy


----------



## shu7241

Foggy, that makes it very clear, I completely understand it now. Ha-Ha. I did not see schematic in earlier post. There is no need to dig out your drawing. A friend of mine dug out the epoxy in his ignition, I opened the circuit and ordered capacitors. If and when we get everything back together I will post the results. Thanks again. Bill


----------



## foggysail

Bill--

The only thing I ask is to keep the forum informed of your progress so ALL can benefit. Today we are still waiting for Dostin's status with his problem. His last post, 402 leaves the board hanging after my suggestions. To my knowledge his is the only mod that supposedly failed even though he indicates that a high voltage was present when he received a shock. But if his saw has no spark...........

Good luck and enjoy


----------



## 54stude

foggysail said:


> Bill--
> 
> The only thing I ask is to keep the forum informed of your progress so ALL can benefit. Today we are still waiting for Dostin's status with his problem. His last post, 402 leaves the board hanging after my suggestions. To my knowledge his is the only mod that supposedly failed even though he indicates that a high voltage was present when he received a shock. But if his saw has no spark...........
> 
> Good luck and enjoy


Based on your description, is it possible that dustin's saw has the capacitor not grounded, or the polarity wrong?


----------



## foggysail

The capacitor is not polarized---. I believe he has the capacitor installed correctly because he reported that he received a shock when pulling the starter cord.


----------



## texican65

Well how'd it go, did anybody send you one? I've got an early '80s 056 mag II that had a bad electronic SEM ignition, I ripped it out and replaced it with one of the Selettra ignition modules and she's a runner again. I've got that old SEM...is it the same as the Bosch...I don't think so? Will it help?

Dow


----------



## JonCraig

On my 041AV, the Bosch and SEM ignitions were drastically different. Flywheel was different too.

I'd assume they're different on the 056 as well.


----------



## shu7241

shu7241 said:


> Foggy, that makes it very clear, I completely understand it now. Ha-Ha. I did not see schematic in earlier post. There is no need to dig out your drawing. A friend of mine dug out the epoxy in his ignition, I opened the circuit and ordered capacitors. If and when we get everything back together I will post the results. Thanks again. Bill


----------



## shu7241

Foggy, I hate to say it but my repair job was a bust but not because of the fix. Got everything put together, spun the flywheel and got no fire. Major disappointment. Checked everything out and found the secondary coil open. Earlier it had read 2300 ohms. Have no idea why coil opened up. Now looking for coil that don't cost $50. Interesting forum, thanks for the information. Bill


----------



## foggysail

shu7241 said:


> Foggy, I hate to say it but my repair job was a bust but not because of the fix. Got everything put together, spun the flywheel and got no fire. Major disappointment. Checked everything out and found the secondary coil open. Earlier it had read 2300 ohms. Have no idea why coil opened up. Now looking for coil that don't cost $50. Interesting forum, thanks for the information. Bill



By "secondary coil" I presume you're referring to the coil used to charge the capacitor, not the coil (pulse transformer) that the spark plug wire mounts into. Strange that it should open because there are no really high voltages generated in that coil. But poop does happen! Not sure if I have one around here, if so I'll get back to you. I don't have many parts to this saw. Maybe someone who reads this thread will respond with help.

Foggy


----------



## shu7241

Foggy, No, just the opposite. To me, the primary is the low voltage coil , the secondary coil is the high voltage coil. Bill


----------



## foggysail

shu7241 said:


> Foggy, No, just the opposite. To me, the primary is the low voltage coil , the secondary coil is the high voltage coil. Bill



Bill-- the "coil" with the plug wire attachment is a transformer designed for pulse applications; it has a primary and secondary winding. I refer to the transformer as a pulse transformer because its volt time integral core can support a pulse without entering into saturation. The second magnetic device is a coil that gets energy from the rotating magnet which is used to charge the capacitor that get discharged with the scr into the pulse transformer.


----------



## shu7241

Foggy, I have a much better understanding , thanks to your patience, of how this thing works. I will probably never see another one. Can you give a simple explanation of the timing of the gate that lets the scr conduct? Bill PS. Have you ever dealt with a ignition system in a Lawnboy push mower? It might work similarly but is enclosed in one unit. Thanks


----------



## foggysail

shu7241 said:


> Foggy, I have a much better understanding , thanks to your patience, of how this thing works. I will probably never see another one. Can you give a simple explanation of the timing of the gate that lets the scr conduct? Bill PS. Have you ever dealt with a ignition system in a Lawnboy push mower? It might work similarly but is enclosed in one unit. Thanks




I'll try...

If I remember right, there are 3 magnets in the flywheel. Two magnets charge the infamous capacitor. The other magnet charges a capacitor essentially located between the gate and teh cathode of the SCR. Also note there is a resistor across that capacitor to discharge it after the SCR is fired. The slow voltage build up on this cap reaches the voltage level that causes the SCR to switch to the conduction mode.

That voltage is in the range between 0.7 - 3 volts. When SCR conduction begins is very close to the times that both the infamous cap is fully charged along with the time the gate voltage in at the needed level to cause the SCR to switch to the on (conduction) mode.

Now there is something clever happening here! The resistor in parallel with the gate cap have what is called a time constant which is the time it takes for about 2/3 of that voltage to discharge. Time constant is the resistor value in ohms multiplied by the capacitor value in farads. Getting to the clever........ When the saw operates at higher RPMs--- the discharge on the gate capacitor is lessened, some charge remains. The remaining charge means that it will not take as long for this new charge to reach the SCR's trip level.

Amazing!!!! This is a form of spark advancing as a function of RPM!


----------



## xntrc

Another Satisfied Customer!
I just finished Foggysail's fix for the, (as Sthil refers to), "the high tension condenser discharge ignition" or MHKZ on my 056. I used the Phillips capacitor and mounted it per instructions. Idid find out that there are timing marks on the armature plate and one on the crankcase, all I did was line them up, hardest part was routing the wires to prevent chafing. and screwing the plug wire into the ignition armature.
I cleaned the carb, fuel and oil tank, assembled it filled tanks with fresh oil and premix put the choke on and the throttle lock on second pull it started to fire so I opened the choke half way pulled the cord and my saw runs again. Thank you so much!
I have attached a factory schematic view of the ignition system


----------



## sakman

My first post and although I'm necroposting, thanks and best regards for the fix. I'm searching for the cap now.
These ignitions were also used on a lot of Dolmars and my 153 (Poulan S6000) runs well until it gets hot then dies. Let it sit a half hour and away it goes for a while.


----------



## powerking

...I have my "new to me" 056 on the bench now.....I should be checking spark soon......Anyone else find those caps? I don't see them anymore on Ebay......


----------



## foggysail

Guys consider---



*2pcs-PHILIPS (BC) MKP378 1uF 400V 5% P:27.5mm Film Capacitor - 222237852105*
$4.00
Buy It Now
59 sold

From Taiwan




*2pcs - WIMA MKP10 1uF (1µF) 400V 10% pitch:27.5mm Capacitor MKP1G041006D00KSSD*
$4.30
Buy It Now

From Taiwan




*2pcs - PHILIPS MKP379 1uF (1µF) 400V 5% P:27.5mm Polypropylene Film Capacitor*
$3.80
Buy It Now

From Taiwan




*16PCS 1uF 400V *
Do a search on Ebay for 1uf 400v MKP capacitors. There is a boat load of them offered for sale.

These caps are found over in Ebay and should work for you. The important thing is that the capacitor be metalized (MKP) polypropylene film AND MAKE SURE IT IS NOT TUBULAR!!! The rectangular caps are made with a stacking construction whereas the round ones are wound on a machine. The round ones have what is known as inductance built into the device via the windings. A pulse capacitor should have minimal inductance therefore I recommend the stacked which will be rectangular.

Now of course other capacitors will work..........for awhile........maybe. Why take a chance after going through all the work of a modification? Other dielectrics have temperature issues so what I am/have recommended is the best for you to use.

Now----GO FOR IT and good luck. Just take your time, this is not brain surgery ......follow my instructions and you will have working saws.

Foggy


----------



## sakman

I did a preliminary check today to confirm the timing of the Bosch unit.
Spinning it with the variable speed drill it starts advancing at about 800 rpm. The drill maxes at 1650 rpm. I didn't put the degree wheel on it as I just wanted to confirm that it has an advance curve. T= TDC F= fire A= advanced.

I have an assortment of caps. Each has slightly different characteristics so I'll be busy testing for a while.
On this Dolmar saw there isn't room to fit the cap mod in the flywheel area. I remote mounted it in the airbox where it's easy to access should it fail etc.


----------



## sakman

One more pic. I didn't run it but I'm sure it'll fire right up as it ran with the original cap.

And thanks in advance Fogy


----------



## foggysail

sakman said:


> I did a preliminary check today to confirm the timing of the Bosch unit.
> Spinning it with the variable speed drill it starts advancing at about 800 rpm. The drill maxes at 1650 rpm. I didn't put the degree wheel on it as I just wanted to confirm that it has an advance curve. T= TDC F= fire A= advanced.
> 
> I have an assortment of caps. Each has slightly different characteristics so I'll be busy testing for a while.
> On this Dolmar saw there isn't room to fit the cap mod in the flywheel area. I remote mounted it in the airbox where it's easy to access should it fail etc.
> View attachment 494955




See my post 423 above. I explain how they provided advance capability.............BUT THANKS for actually TESTING IT!!!


----------



## powerking

......All I need to do is Epoxy it and order my Cap!.....Anyone else have a hard time with ordering stuff off Ebay from Taiwan and overseas? Im a little leary about it....


----------



## olyman

powerking said:


> ......All I need to do is Epoxy it and order my Cap!.....Anyone else have a hard time with ordering stuff off Ebay from Taiwan and overseas? Im a little leary about it....


have gotten more than a few things,,from both places,,no problem.. and had faster shipping to me, than from a western state!!!!!!!!


----------



## foggysail

sakman said:


> One more pic. I didn't run it but I'm sure it'll fire right up as it ran with the original cap.
> 
> And thanks in advance Fogy




Sakman --- Picture shows a nice installation. Now I am asking YOU for a favor to help others. Please start a new thread explaining there is a fix for Dolmars that use this ignition AND REFERENCE THIS THREAD FOR INFO AND INSTRUCTIONS. There could be many others out in the great beyond who have this problem and be unaware of a solution. My intention is to help others and only ask for thanks in return.

Thanks

Foggy


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

Perhaps a more useful approach would be to start a new thread detailing the fix for the particular_ ignition module _itself regardless of application.
.


----------



## foggysail

PogoInTheWoods said:


> Perhaps a more useful approach would be to start a new thread detailing the fix for the particular_ ignition module _itself regardless of application.
> .




Maybe. Many people who have a failed saw and even relate the failure to an ignition problem might not have a clue what ignition is in the saw. And take another look at this thread's title where I specifically stated the repair was for a Bosch ignition.


----------



## POC

foggysail said:


> Guys consider---
> 
> 
> 
> *2pcs-PHILIPS (BC) MKP378 1uF 400V 5% P:27.5mm Film Capacitor - 222237852105*
> $4.00
> Buy It Now
> 59 sold
> 
> From Taiwan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *2pcs - WIMA MKP10 1uF (1µF) 400V 10% pitch:27.5mm Capacitor MKP1G041006D00KSSD*
> $4.30
> Buy It Now
> 
> From Taiwan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *2pcs - PHILIPS MKP379 1uF (1µF) 400V 5% P:27.5mm Polypropylene Film Capacitor*
> $3.80
> Buy It Now
> 
> From Taiwan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *16PCS 1uF 400V *
> Do a search on Ebay for 1uf 400v MKP capacitors. There is a boat load of them offered for sale.
> 
> These caps are found over in Ebay and should work for you. The important thing is that the capacitor be metalized (MKP) polypropylene film AND MAKE SURE IT IS NOT TUBULAR!!! The rectangular caps are made with a stacking construction whereas the round ones are wound on a machine. The round ones have what is known as inductance built into the device via the windings. A pulse capacitor should have minimal inductance therefore I recommend the stacked which will be rectangular.
> 
> Now of course other capacitors will work..........for awhile........maybe. Why take a chance after going through all the work of a modification? Other dielectrics have temperature issues so what I am/have recommended is the best for you to use.
> 
> Now----GO FOR IT and good luck. Just take your time, this is not brain surgery ......follow my instructions and you will have working saws.
> 
> Foggy


And the 1uf will work? 

I have my great-grandfather's 056, really hoping this will work. 

Could you just dig the old one out and replace it? Also, why the potting? 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk


----------



## foggysail

POC said:


> And the 1uf will work?
> 
> I have my great-grandfather's 056, really hoping this will work.
> 
> Could you just dig the old one out and replace it? Also, why the potting?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk




IF YOU WANT F***K IT UP, GO AHEAD. OTHERWISE, FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS, THAT IS WHY I POSTED THEM!!!


----------



## POC

foggysail said:


> IF YOU WANT F***K IT UP, GO AHEAD. OTHERWISE, FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS, THAT IS WHY I POSTED THEM!!!


I'm not suggesting that I will do it any different, just curious. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk


----------



## powerking

POC.....I think that is the reason they failed in the first place. the heat, kills the cap. Mounting it externally is genius!


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

foggysail said:


> Maybe. Many people who have a failed saw and even relate the failure to an ignition problem might not have a clue what ignition is in the saw. And take another look at this thread's title where I specifically stated the repair was for a Bosch ignition.......



.....as opposed to the SEM ignition also used on the 1115 series Stihl saws for those who know the difference.

Not trying to be contentious, here. Just trying to assist with some clarification in applying your request for a new thread detailing the same fix for other saws -- not just Dolmars -- that use the same Bosch ignition.,..., including some early Husky 2100's, etc. Most folks attempting to revive/restore any such old-school specimens most likely know, (or are capable of identifying), the type of ignition setup on their particular project. especially if it's already been determined to be the primary reason the saw has no spark.

This is one of the best threads to come along in a while and can indeed help folks other than 045/056 owners.


----------



## foggysail

PogoInTheWoods said:


> .....as opposed to the SEM ignition also used on the 1115 series Stihl saws for those who know the difference.
> 
> Not trying to be contentious, here. Just trying to assist with some clarification in applying your request for a new thread detailing the same fix for other saws -- not just Dolmars -- that use the same Bosch ignition.,..., including some early Husky 2100's, etc. Most folks attempting to revive/restore any such old-school specimens most likely know, (or are capable of identifying), the type of ignition setup on their particular project. especially if it's already been determined to be the primary reason the saw has no spark.
> 
> This is one of the best threads to come along in a while and can indeed help folks other than 045/056 owners.





FINE! Please start the new thread


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

Be happy to. Will also attempt to approach it as a vehicle to gather info from the masses in broadening the spectrum of saws that could benefit from the fix. Need to think on it a bit. I obviously tend to get rather wordy and will need to keep it to the point!

I presume some of your material here would be cool to duplicate in a consolidation effort..., hopefully with your blessing in the new thread? Not sure how much would even be necessary to make the point that it's simple and works..., just in a brand agnostic approach.


----------



## foggysail

PogoInTheWoods said:


> Be happy to. Will also attempt to approach it as a vehicle to gather info from the masses in broadening the spectrum of saws that could benefit from the fix. Need to think on it a bit. I obviously tend to get rather wordy and will need to keep it to the point!
> 
> I presume some of your material here would be cool to duplicate in a consolidation effort..., hopefully with your blessing in the new thread? Not sure how much would even be necessary to make the point that it's simple and works..., just in a brand agnostic approach.




Poge-- I fully support everything that will help make life easier for others!!!


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

In doing some additional searching/reading on the subject, it seems as though the same approach has been somewhat successful before using the OEM Stihl trigger unit, but with timing issues. Without re-reading this whole thread, I didn't recall seeing any reference to timing problems using the method detailed here and am assuming my recollection is correct?


----------



## sakman

Foggy,

As this seems to be a re heated hot thread for a while until these old things finally croak, it draws questions as to other makes using this Bosch unit, I'm a prime example. Perhaps another approach to the subject as opposed to starting another thread with links etc.
Consider asking the mods to re title the thread to something like Repairing the 1980's Bosch SS ignition on Stihl, Husky, Dolmar etc.

Just my 2 cents and thanks again.


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

Good idea and goes to my earlier point. Would also certainly save me a bit of time!

How about;

PROVEN FIX!!! Repairing the 1980's Bosch SS Ignition on Stihl, Husky, Dolmar, etc.


----------



## sakman

Foggy and you just gitter done!

Wrong place to post but is it my old XP box or the site, but I'm having hella time with the site. 
Page loadings take forever like often a minute and sometimes will time out. I'll make a post and often it won't go through.


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

Seems ok for me today, but can certainly be sluggish from time to time. As for my timing question regarding the fix..., did you have any issues? Just curious.


----------



## sakman

Nope. Spinning it with the drill shows the same advance start point and full advance mark as with the oem capacitor. Bear in mind that the drill only turns 1650 max so I have no idea what will happen above that. But the curve flattens out long before 1650. *Note that I haven't run the saw yet, only spun it up to check timing by motoring it.


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

Sounds like you're good. The issues I've read about with the trigger module required a 3 degree advance just to achieve spark. Hit and miss after that for best performance.


----------



## powerking

Foggysail YOU ROCK! I got my cap in today and wired and soldered it in. got myself a nice blue spark! Primed her with a quick squirt and she fired off! Now to wait for my rebuild kit for the carb and I should be good! THANKS!


----------



## powerking

powerking said:


> Foggysail YOU ROCK! I got my cap in today and wired and soldered it in. got myself a nice blue spark! Primed her with a quick squirt and she fired off! Now to wait for my rebuild kit for the carb and I should be good! THANKS!




SO an update, I rebuilt the carb...no start....pulled the plug and put my tester in, see spark in the window, but no spark on actual plug....Tried 4 different plugs....no spark. But I do get spark with the tester...maybe just not strong enough? Maybe I got a bad Cap? I did use a 630volt cap, versus the 400V that was in the tutorial...maybe that is the issue?


----------



## powerking

...Here is my vid clip that I took...sounds like others have had issue with bad cap maybe? I do have 2 coming from Japan..should be here within a week or so......


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

Is the air gap set correctly? And do you have a good connection to ground when just testing with the plug itself? Doesn't seem like the model plate would suffice. And the plug lead is good otherwise.... Sorry. Just thinkin' out loud....

It'll be interesting to see what you come up with. Thanks for sharing, and good luck with it..


----------



## Rockfarmer

There is a ground strap that goes on the screw that holds that air flow cover that he put the thingamajiggy on and the tank. This grounds the handle system while being isolated by the AV mounts. It also allows the kill switch to ground out. If that strap was broken or left off the plug would not be grounded when checking. I always hold it wherever I can and it sparks, grounding right through the paint.


----------



## powerking

....Stupid me...When I made that vid, I should have also said that I had tried grounding the plug right above the cylinder as well!Sorry about that.... Today I tried to see if Igot spark again from the plug. I got very weak spark from the plug, but only on the first pull of the rope, other yanks on the rope yielded nothing....My "guess" at this poin would be that something is wrong with my cap....maybe it sat on shelf for a long time......At this point I will wait for my other caps to arrive and give them a shot.....Oddly enough the igntion system has just enough juice to light the spark tester, but not sufficiently fire the plug....


----------



## Paul Brodie

foggysail said:


> Many here in the forum may have read my recent posts regarding the Bosch electronic ignition. My 056 pooped the bed or better still make that my lawn while I was in the middle of clearing trees. And yes, problem was no spark. I have also read numerous posts stating that the cause is "coil opening while hot." Well folks, I doubt its either of the magnetic devices in the ignition needed for it to function. My advice....save your money, do not replace the high voltage transformer or the charging inductor. They are the least likely to fail but my saw's component that did fail operated on the border of component death. Just a matter of time before they all fail.
> 
> The problem resides in the potted electronics, that area between the charging inductor and the high voltage transformer. AND THEY CAN BE REPAIRED! NO so called little fix all boxes to take the place of the original ignition, no retiming, just bright blue spark or at least that is what mine now displays in my basement after repair.
> 
> Now here is a gutcha. If somebody will part with a junk ignition which I need for two reasons, I will take pictures of how to make the repair, provide written instructions and explain which part needs to be purchased. I purchased my part on EBay, bought 10 of them, delivered for under $7 bucks.
> 
> The reason I need another ignition is to verify this is the common fault that folks experience with an ignition failure. I think it is but I feel uncomfortable with a repair sample of 1. The next reason is mine is too ripped apart (it functions though) to take pictures for repair instructions. If anybody in the forum has one they want to contribute to the cause, I gladly pay for shipping and handling. This is a chance for every 045/056 with bad ignitions to get their saw running again. Mine now works.... I have not yet started the saw, just got may parts in this afternoon and rushed to install one. Just too anxious to put that off.
> 
> So there you have it. I believe all the failures or at least the greatest number of them are from the same component failure. Too many guys have seen their great 045/056 go belly up with no practical repair. There is hope guys and it is free but I am not going to even attempt to describe how to make the repair until I can do it properly. And you do not need electrical skills although you will need a soldering iron and solder purchased from Radio Shack or some other place that sells electronic stuff. The repair probably take around an hour to complete. You cannot use plumbing solder. So lets see how much interest this thread excites if any.
> 
> Foggy


Hi Foggy,
I'm the guy who was selling the 1uF 400 volt polypropylene capacitors on eBay. I sold out a long time ago but still get a lot of requests for them, along with questions about repairing their chain saws. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to locate any more of those caps for a reasonable price. Those caps were also rated for AC and Pulse applications, which made them particularly well suited for this application. I do have some 1uF 400 volt Arcotronic polyester capacitors that should work but they are not rated AC and pulse but are rated 105 degrees C. and are specified for automotive applications. Also, I do have some 1uF 250V polypropylene capacitors and would like to know if caps rated for only 250 volts will work to repair these ignitions??? From what I understand, the circuit uses this cap to store a charge that is then dumped into a high voltage transformer. What I don't know is the voltage level that is being stored.
Finally, I seem to remember reading that the original cap was actually .82uF at 400 volts. If they are being used to store a charge that is then dumped into a transformer, it would appear that larger capacitance would work as well, if not better.
If you can respond and let me know if any of this makes sense to you, I would really appreciate it. I would love to be able to answer some of these questions I get from people trying to repair their chain saws. Thanks! Paul


----------



## powerking

powerking said:


> ....Stupid me...When I made that vid, I should have also said that I had tried grounding the plug right above the cylinder as well!Sorry about that.... Today I tried to see if Igot spark again from the plug. I got very weak spark from the plug, but only on the first pull of the rope, other yanks on the rope yielded nothing....My "guess" at this poin would be that something is wrong with my cap....maybe it sat on shelf for a long time......At this point I will wait for my other caps to arrive and give them a shot.....Oddly enough the igntion system has just enough juice to light the spark tester, but not sufficiently fire the plug....




....So the new caps came today and I was anxious to get out and try them....I soldered in a new cap and tried it out....got great spark across the spark tester, but no spark at the plug!!!! I have tried 4 different plugs, I have also used the original plug from that saw in another machine and it works there. For some reason, there is not enough energy in the ignition system to jump the spark plug gap, but enough to fire the bulb in the spark tester.........In the attached pic, the new cap is on the right, and the old one I took out is on the left........open to any suggestions at this point. I REALLY want to see this 056 Super work, but its not looking good. Im pretty sure there is no air gap adjustment on the bosch coils.....


----------



## Rockfarmer

I wonder if you have insulation on the kill wire that is grounding out the ignition. When I remove the coils-stator plates the insulation 9 out of 10 times is bad and falling off somewhere. I loosen up the coil and put heat shrink tubing all the way from the end prong through the back of the stator right to the top of the coil where it goes in. Then I hit the top with some liquid elec tape to seal the joint. Half of the saws I get have no spark or weak spark because this kill wire is grounding out.


----------



## powerking

I re-did the wiring all the way from the potting, up to the switch, I will take the flywheel off again and check things over....maybe my wire routing........


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

powerking said:


> .... Im pretty sure there is no air gap adjustment on the bosch coils.....



Duh. Silly me. That's what happens when I think out loud!


----------



## powerking

So, This happened today!!...Now I get Great blue spark, but still no start......GRRRR 150lbs compression.....plug is very wet.......Question...I got this saw for free....been sitting for years, Is it possible to have good compression and still have bad crank seals or something???


----------



## Rockfarmer

Yes it is but that would not really affect the saw starting. Might affect idling or lean condition at wot. Pull the plug out and turn switch off. Pull the saw over 10 times choke off to clear all the gas out and try again. Maybe it's flooded. If that's the case throttle wide open, no choke and pull till she fires. Plug gapped at .020". She'll run, just keep pulling till she starts popping and it will go.


----------



## powerking

Rockfarmer said:


> Yes it is but that would not really affect the saw starting. Might affect idling or lean condition at wot. Pull the plug out and turn switch off. Pull the saw over 10 times choke off to clear all the gas out and try again. Maybe it's flooded. If that's the case throttle wide open, no choke and pull till she fires. Plug gapped at .020". She'll run, just keep pulling till she starts popping and it will go.





Thanks for the info Rockfarmer....I'll have to give it a try tommorrow......I treid blowing everything out with my compressor. After only about 3 pulls, I get fuel running back out the carb.....we're getting closer!!!


----------



## Rockfarmer

Last time I had massive gas coming out the carb was because I left the metal ring out that makes the intake boot stay in place and seal the fuel inlet to the carb.


----------



## shu7241

foggysail, if you are still there, I have a question for you. Sorry, wrong forum but this is the only way I might get in touch with you. Anyone else can feel free to reply also. Recently working on echo trimmer that would start but not run. To keep things simple, give me credit for doing all the normal things to fix this problem. Nothing worked. By chance, checking fire with in line spark tester, the trimmer ran perfect. Put gap type spark tester in line with coll wire and plug and trimmer ran great. Why or what conditions are present that causes this to happen. I didn't replace the coil because it cost $70. Thanks for any help. Bill


----------



## LegDeLimber

Try another spark plug in the trimmer.
Running on a booster gap is usually indicative of a fouled or faulty plug.

I've seen a mower that would crank with the plug wire off, but wouldn't with the wire clipped onto the plug.
Was a slight "what the heck" moment till you realized the spark was jumping from the wire to the spark plug top.
(we're getting into why lightening strikes are so crazy, etc, here)
The problem came from the customer running the mower with the throttle pushed all the way, which engaged the choke and soot fouled the plug.
This was back in the early 80's when you could still see a few manual choke carburetors on push mowers.

I personally will no longer run a resistor type spark, for the reason of having them fail and cause hard starting and missfireing.
No advanced ignition timing or compression changes in any instances.
Fresh non ethanol fuel running in a motor and never lugged 
or overloaded, etc.
One motor is 29 yrs old, So I'd guess that I'm not abusing it or the plug.
The plugs just fail.
When you check a bad one with an ohm meter, you'll see a noticeable increase of the through plug resistance.
But that's just my personal adventure, other folks like them and the factories sell a lot of them.

Edit: If this missive is too far off track and overly cluttering Foggys thread,
Then I'd be happy to see a Moderator make it disappear.


----------



## shu7241

Installed new factory recommended plug.


----------



## LegDeLimber

Interesting. Sorry I didn't have a useful answer.
My next thoughts are checking if bending the wires to fit in the test gear
happens to move a wire from a grounded position or moves a kill switch, etc.
after that I confess to running low on armchair opinions.

Beyond this I'll stop commenting and let Foggysail say if this should be moved to a thread of its own.
I'm sorta thinking it should.


----------



## Jedneck

I am a big fan of the 056's. I just had the Bosch ignition go bad in my super but I was lucky enuf to have a spare semi and matching fly wheel to fix it. But I have a question. I just reinstalled the module in roughly the same location in the slots and it runs but dont seem snappy as I remember. It pulls hard in the wood with a 25" skip chain and a 7 pin. Had to really work it to bog it down in red oak, both cross and rip. Does it sound lime I need to play with timing?


----------



## rageej

https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/291187520152 


Sent using mental telepathy.


----------



## tbone75

rageej said:


> https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/291187520152
> 
> 
> Sent using mental telepathy.


Thanks ! Saved me from searching ! And I bought 35 of them to share with who ever needs one or two , and not 10 . Cheap fer sure , but you use one or 2 , ya got 8 more to stare at for the next 10 years . LOL 
Something even funnier , I don't have or want any old Stihls , but I may need to work on one some day ? I am sure they won't go bad , if you keep them dry . LOL


----------



## hotshot

The capacitance suggested for the "fix" is a 1.0 microF, so I'm not sure what you could use those 0.0056mF caps for with respect to a Bosch CD ignition...


----------



## rageej

hotshot said:


> The capacitance suggested for the "fix" is a 1.0 microF, so I'm not sure what you could use those 0.0056mF caps for with respect to a Bosch CD ignition...


Ah, ffs, wrong damn listing. I know at least one person I owe a few dollars. Thank you for the spot. Sh!t. Insult to injury... the correct post has ended with all items sold out.

Thank you again for spotting that.

Edit: How the heck do I delete that old post?


----------



## rageej

Definitely not the deal of a lifetime but looks like the correct cap.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-PHILIP...678480?hash=item2336b4de90:g:uz4AAOxyLm9TDZW1


----------



## hotshot

Well, you could always wire up 178.57 of those small caps in parallel, to get the 1mF value, LOL


----------



## tbone75

rageej said:


> Definitely not the deal of a lifetime but looks like the correct cap.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-PHILIP...678480?hash=item2336b4de90:g:uz4AAOxyLm9TDZW1


Scared me off now ! LMAO !!

I have done many other much dumber things ! LOL


----------



## tbone75

hotshot said:


> Well, you could always wire up 178.57 of those small caps in parallel, to get the 1mF value, LOL


Found a buddy of mine may be able to use them ! So turned out not so bad ! LOL


----------



## tbone75

Wheres Foggysnail at ? Sure hope hes OK , hasn't been on for a good while ? Plus I am real interested in what else he made better !!

Plus Snails & Slugs is close ! I may be faster , no extra shell weight holding me down . LOL
But honestly I aint got a chance , Mom is 78 and runs circles round me !! LOL


----------



## powerking

SO I think I nailed down my issue, the coil is firing at the wrong time, So now I'm on the hunt for a bad coil that I can purchase, so I can try another Foggy Fix...Let me know If you have a bad one I can purchase.....


----------



## scallywag

powerking said:


> SO I think I nailed down my issue, the coil is firing at the wrong time, So now I'm on the hunt for a bad coil that I can purchase, so I can try another Foggy Fix...Let me know If you have a bad one I can purchase.....


 
Probably a stupid question, but is the ignition plate set in the correct position?


----------



## powerking

I would like to think so.......I marked it when I removed it for the no spark condition...... Could it be different now that I did the fix? I really don't understand there method on timing it either


----------



## scallywag

There's a timing mark on the ignition plate and a corresponding mark on the crank case.


----------



## powerking

I looked for that upon removal but didn't see any so I made my own marks on both surfaces......could it be that far off to cause a no start?


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

powerking said:


> I would like to think so.......I marked it when I removed it for the no spark condition...... Could it be different now that I did the fix? I really don't understand there method on timing it either



'Nuther stupid question; Is the flywheel properly aligned? And another one; Are we sure it's the correct flywheel?

Here's a link to some material I've compiled and converted to PDF that may be helpful. All should be downloadable files, but may or may not also open online depending on your browser plugins, etc. If it doesn't work, let me know and I'll try again.

https://drive.google.com/folderview...pGZVV1OFNYdGptSVJhUmNVWkJ0SWlkYTg&usp=sharing


----------



## powerking

....Pogo...thanks for the info, It won't allow me to view it though........I can see 5 files though can't open them........flywheel alignment? I thought you just put the key in and reinstall? It is def the correct flywheel....it's not the one for points ignition with the bigger slots in it.........no stupid questions here.....I'm open to everything


----------



## tbone75

powerking said:


> ....Pogo...thanks for the info, It won't allow me to view it though........I can see 5 files though can't open them........flywheel alignment? I thought you just put the key in and reinstall? It is def the correct flywheel....it's not the one for points ignition with the bigger slots in it.........no stupid questions here.....I'm open to everything


Some way you really need all that info he posted !! OH MY that took a lot of time to put all that together , and I only looked at the first one ! LOL 
I don't much care for Stihls of that age , but that info is priceless to anyone that touches one !

Thank you so very much for posting all of that Poge !!


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

powerking said:


> ....Pogo...thanks for the info, It won't allow me to view it though........I can see 5 files though can't open them........flywheel alignment? I thought you just put the key in and reinstall? It is def the correct flywheel....it's not the one for points ignition with the bigger slots in it.........no stupid questions here.....I'm open to everything



If the key is there and it's the original ignition setup, that would seem to be covered. All the files are downloadable PDF's. Sounds like you may need an app or browser add-on to view them online.


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## PogoInTheWoods

tbone75 said:


> Thank you so very much for posting all of that Poge !!



My pleasure, tbone. Definitive Dave was nice enough to trust me with all the relevant old hard copy he had recently acquired.


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## tbone75

PogoInTheWoods said:


> My pleasure, tbone. Definitive Dave was nice enough to trust me with all the relevant old hard copy he had recently acquired.


Dave is a great guy ! Helps me all the time !!!!


----------



## powerking

Well I was able to check those files when I got home here to my desktop. Unfortunetly, none of them apply to the Bosch ignition, only to the SEM.......Unless I missed something...But I will take a lok again


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

You missed something. The Bosch setup is referenced in both the 045 and 056 IPL's as well the change to the SEM detailed in the Tech Notes document.

Good luck getting things sorted out. Let us know how it goes.


----------



## sakman

It's been a few weeks so here's a semi update on the ignition mod to the Dolmar 153.
When I store saws I drain them then run it until it quits. To get them going a little squirt of gas is needed down the carb. Of course I over did it and fouled the plug. Cleaned the plug and off it went in a cloud of 4 stroking smoke. The idle was much higher than pre mod. Like around 3000. Turn the screw down and it's fine. This makes me wonder if it's just improved spark, (unlikely) or that the advance curve now begins at a much lower RPM.

Tomorrow I attack a 3 foot maple and we'll see how it goes. I'll post results that is if my aging body will be able to type after lugging that 100cc boat anchor around for a couple hours.


----------



## 62alf

Thanks Foggy! 056 super back in action tonight after quitting Friday. 

Sent from my GT-I9295 using Tapatalk


----------



## sakman

100% success. The foggymod is epic!
I pounded the snot out of the old Dolmar yesterday in a big maple with the 36 inch bar on it. Just to preclude any vapor lock I ran non alky 91 gas with a little 100 low lead avgas for ar[email protected]:1 stihl oil. I intentionally ran it dry and refilled it.

Woo hoo!! three pulls and it was back online. I ran about four tanks through it and it didn't miss a beat. Mega thanks foggy for the efforts.


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## powerking

I would think this is a good enough hot blue spark no?


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## PogoInTheWoods

Hell, it looks like you could weld with that!


----------



## powerking

Poge....Ive come to the conclusion that it HAS to be a timing issue......Ive read the info you have posted(thank you kindly by the way), and Ive made a few adjustments of the stator plate and I still cant even get it to fire off a little prime......sigh........ to recap, compression is a solid 150psi(I checked it with another tester also), plug def gets fuel, floods back out carb after about 4 pulls, tried 3 different plugs......Heck I even yelled at it!!!


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## PogoInTheWoods

We certainly have a head-scratcher here...


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## powerking

...From what I can find out, the guy said it just stopped running about 8 yrs ago. I put new ring in it


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## sakman

Put a degree wheel on it and make a pointer that is fixed. Find TDC and lock the degree wheel at 0 on the pointer. Flywheel side or clutch side makes no difference. Then with an assistant or two, spin the engine over and with your timing light you can see where it's firing. Plug out of the cylinder but grounded of course.
Adjust the mag plate to indicate whatever degrees BTDC your engine is supposed to have.
Something like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Motion-Pro-...ash=item2c76ffea48:g:a3sAAOxy4t1SiqpO&vxp=mtr

*Don't run it with the degree wheel. But you can spin it with a drill up to a couple thousand revs which also should show you an advance curve if it has one.


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## powerking

sakman said:


> Put a degree wheel on it and make a pointer that is fixed. Find TDC and lock the degree wheel at 0 on the pointer. Flywheel side or clutch side makes no difference. Then with an assistant or two, spin the engine over and with your timing light you can see where it's firing. Plug out of the cylinder but grounded of course.
> Adjust the mag plate to indicate whatever degrees BTDC your engine is supposed to have.
> Something like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Motion-Pro-...ash=item2c76ffea48:g:a3sAAOxy4t1SiqpO&vxp=mtr
> 
> *Don't run it with the degree wheel. But you can spin it with a drill up to a couple thousand revs which also should show you an advance curve if it has one.







I tried the above, but the plug wire is so short, I could barely get my timing light clamp around the wire


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## powerking

....too much fuel maybe?


----------



## LegDeLimber

Completely fold back or remove the ground strap from a spark plug and see if the spark jumps a .200+ gap, at normal cranking speed.

Assuming all else is good with the engine, timing, compression sealing, etc.
I've got one of those old test plugs and in over 35 years, I have yet to find an engine that wouldn't run IF the spark was blue across that .200 inch gap.
I've seen a few things jump a .020~.050 gap and have a blue-ish looking spark, but wouldn't run.
So then I put that big gap in the test and it wouldn't jump that.
After fixing/replacing the bad ignition parts and seeing the spark hop that big gap, bingo! Ignition troubles solved and on to whatever else was ailing the unit.

http://www.tooltopia.com/_img/OTC/OTC6589.jpg
Somehow I'm feeling too lazy to get dressed just to go out to the shed and take a photo of mine at 3:30am.

edit: Are you using a new spark plug? have you tried that particular plug in another known runner saw?


----------



## scallywag

powerking said:


> I tried the above, but the plug wire is so short, I could barely get my timing light clamp around the wire


 
Are you testing for spark with the switch wire disabled ?.....That is to say, completely disconnected from the switch?


----------



## powerking

scallywag said:


> Are you testing for spark with the switch wire disabled ?.....That is to say, completely disconnected from the switch?



Yes....Wire is completely dissabled. I ran a new wire all the way from the coil. Its not hooked up to anything yet, just coiled up. Yes it does work, because if I ground it, I get no spark at all


----------



## scallywag

powerking said:


> Yes....Wire is completely dissabled. I ran a new wire all the way from the coil. Its not hooked up to anything yet, just coiled up. Yes it does work, because if I ground it, I get no spark at all


 
Have you also checked the small ground wire that earths the top cover to the case?.. These are prone to break on the 1115 series saws and is the only thing that's earthing the top cover to the case!...I should also ad that trying to ground the plug to the diecast magnesium cover is not the best conductor.


----------



## powerking

scallywag said:


> Have you also checked the small ground wire that earths the top cover to the case?.. These are prone to break on the 1115 series saws and is the only thing that's earthing the top cover to the case!...I should also ad that trying to ground the plug to the diecast magnesium cover is not the best conductor.



Ive actually clipped a lead to the cylinder and attched it to the plug to check and it still gets bright blue spark. another thing that popped into my head is that when I rebuilt the saw, the base gasket was shot so I made another one and checked the squish and reassemdbled. I wonder if my port timing could be an issue?? Maybe? I'm currently trying to figure out what thickness the base gasket is...


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

Typically .5mm or 1mm for the base gasket with the thicker one intended to be used in lower compression situations such as third world environments where the fuel is usually poor octane. (Minimizes pre-detonation.) Wouldn't affect ignition timing and would affect port timing only minimally.

I'm still leaning toward something weird going on with the flywheel....like maybe the wrong one somehow? Have you tried removing the key and advancing/retarding the timing to see what happens? (The key is essentially only there for timing / alignment purposes anyway.) 'Bout the only thing left to try!

And that amount of fuel left in the carb isn't unusual. I'd be more worried if it were dry. One thing though..., depending on the carb, the metering lever may be forked and need to slide under the little knob on the metering diaphragm to work right. Just thinkin' out loud again...


----------



## powerking

...Pogo, I truly appreciate all your info..really! I did check the carb, because I did also have a rebuilt kit with just the button on the metering diaphragm. I ended up getting the correct rebuild with the "forkable" metering diaphragm. I took it apart today and made a tad bit thicker base gasket. Still nothing. I will have to try and take the key out and mess with timing that way. I will have to post the number on my flywheel, but I believe it ends in 8000? Its a Bosch one


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## PogoInTheWoods

Short discussion on the various 1115 flywheels...

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/need-some-045-056-ignition-help.257204/

And trust me, I'm as curious about this as you are frustrated. So far, the fix itself has proven to function as advertised regarding re-establishing spark in what was previously a no-spark condition. _When_ it sparks clearly seems to be the issue. The only other thing that comes to mind aside from the physical timing alignment between the flywheel and the coil possibly being offset would be an actual delay factor inherent in the new cap that retards the trigger.


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## powerking

..here's what I'm dealing with


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## scallywag

Could you show a pic of the* original* timing marks on the ignition plate and your crankcase?....I'd like to see a comparison between the originals and the ones you made when pulling the saw down.

[Edit] Your parts are correct for 056 Super.


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## scallywag

This timing mark should match the one on your crankcase at about 10:00 o'clock.


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## scallywag




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## powerking

...Here is my markings


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## scallywag

Working from the FW side, fit the FW and tune the crank* clockwise* until the piston reaches 0.100" (2.5mm) BTDC. *(Rough Numbers)*
You may need to remove and refit the FW to make things line up.
The timing mark shown in the pic should now be close to lining up with the *original* marks on your crankcase.


----------



## powerking

Scallywag, I went out to the garage and checked your info against what I have and it was pretty darn close! I ended up taking the FW off and removing the key and adjusting it in closer. ......snapped the rope right out of my hand! Must have went a little bit to far! I ended up bringing it back to where it was upon dissasembly Like I had mentioned earlier, I got the saw for nothing....cleaned it up and put some new rings in it....OH and I forgot to mention because I don't think it has any significance, but one of the metal pieces on the backside of the flywheel was dislodged when I first took it apart for cleaning. It was stopping the saw from turning over completely, the guy thought it was seized up! I took that metal piece and jb welded it back to the magnet, this doesn;t have to go on a certain way does it? Its just the metal piece.........


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## scallywag

That metal piece (Pole shoe) would need to be replaced exactly where it come from spacing wise to the others.... Also is the magnetism of that shoe equal to the others?


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## powerking

Yes...I did put it right back in the same spot with some jb weld.......The magnetism seems the same all the way around on all 4 poles


----------



## Gregor

Hi foggysail, 

thanks for this great solution.

I just repaired ignition on my Husqvarna 285CD (year 1978) using your method. 

Won't post all images, just image of capacitor location I choose on this specific model.

I purchased this capacitor.

Regards, Gregor


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## tntatro

Hello, I did this ignition fix about a year ago and it is still working great. I just tried to do it again on a different saw and the spark is inconsistent. Sometimes it has spark, sometimes it doesn't. It will sometimes start and sometimes it will just pop but not start. I removed all the wires and rewired it with different wire and a different switch and different condenser and it is the same. Anyone have any ideas to why this won't work right?


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## tntatro

I got the 056 running a little today. It seemed like it was going to run okay but shortly after I started into a cut it ran pretty crappy at full throttle and would backfire. The spark seems to be random. I tried moving the ignition to different positions but it behaves the same way. Sometimes it starts right up and runs and sometimes it has no spark at all. Could this be a grounding issue?


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## tntatro

Today I replaced the ignition and did the fix with another ignition from a parts saw. It started cold with one pull. I tuned the carburetor a little and it seems to run flawlessly. It appears as though the last ignition had a different problem other than the condenser. Unless I messed something up and didn't notice. So far I am 2 for 3 with the ignition fix. I have one more 056 I want to build and one more Bosch ignition to try. Hopefully it will work again.


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## powerking

tntatro said:


> Hello, I did this ignition fix about a year ago and it is still working great. I just tried to do it again on a different saw and the spark is inconsistent. Sometimes it has spark, sometimes it doesn't. It will sometimes start and sometimes it will just pop but not start. I removed all the wires and rewired it with different wire and a different switch and different condenser and it is the same. Anyone have any ideas to why this won't work right?




....Do you have a points ignition system? You keep mentioning condenser.......Do you mean "Capacitor"?


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## tntatro

powerking said:


> ....Do you have a points ignition system? You keep mentioning condenser.......Do you mean "Capacitor"?


I guess I mean capacitor, I do believe they used to be called condensers or referred to as the same thing... I just Googled it. All three of my attempts were on the Bosch electronic ignition identical to the fix by "foggysail". I have two successes and one failure so far. I have one more I'll be attempting soon.


----------



## powerking

tntatro said:


> I guess I mean capacitor, I do believe they used to be called condensers or referred to as the same thing... I just Googled it. All three of my attempts were on the Bosch electronic ignition identical to the fix by "foggysail". I have two successes and one failure so far. I have one more I'll be attempting soon.


....Mine has the same issue you were having...My spark is randow or some other issue, cuz I cant get it to fire no matter what I do


----------



## tntatro

powerking said:


> ...From what I can find out, the guy said it just stopped running about 8 yrs ago. I put new ring in it





powerking said:


> ....Mine has the same issue you were having...My spark is randow or some other issue, cuz I cant get it to fire no matter what I do


I was just reading past messages. The video you showed had pretty good spark, actually excellent spark. Mine would have no spark most of the time but then have some spark sometimes. Are you familiar with the 056 carburetors? One thing that I discovered about the carburetor is that the metering lever gets bent, probably due to being hooked on the diaphragm. I have also got a metering lever for the Walbro carb for the 056 magnum in a rebuild kit. Instead of the forked piece being straight it has a step in it. You can check that you have the right metering lever, Tillotson is the straight one, Walbro is the stepped, and make sure it is not bent too high. When mine was bent I had to tune the L needle to 5/8 - 3/4 from stop. It would not even start or fire at one turn out but 3/4 turn it would start and run great. When I was running my Tillotson carb with the wrong lever it just didn't seem to run right. After I discovered it was the wrong lever I put the old one in and bent it to where it should be and it runs great now.


----------



## tntatro

powerking said:


> ....Mine has the same issue you were having...My spark is randow or some other issue, cuz I cant get it to fire no matter what I do


There is another fix for these ignitions that I just found on another forum that I'll try with the ignition that I couldn't fix. You take a Nova II ignition module and connect the coil input wire to the positive on the Nova II module then ground the negative from the Nova II. Also, remove the "trigger" as he called it. It's the part opposite the coil. I think I'll try locating the Nova II module in the carburetor/air filter area. I'll let you know how it goes when I do it. The Nova II is around $15 on EBay or Amazon.


----------



## powerking

tntatro....surely keep us posted......As for mine, I cant even get mine to fire off of a prime!! I am going crazy trying to get to the bottom of it! At this point I would still have to say that I have some sort of igntion issue....Maybe its not firing under compression? I have tried different plugs and my compression is 150lbs


----------



## tntatro

powerking said:


> tntatro....surely keep us posted......As for mine, I cant even get mine to fire off of a prime!! I am going crazy trying to get to the bottom of it! At this point I would still have to say that I have some sort of igntion issue....Maybe its not firing under compression? I have tried different plugs and my compression is 150lbs


I'll let you know how it goes, it may be a week or so before I do it.


----------



## tntatro

powerking said:


> tntatro....surely keep us posted......As for mine, I cant even get mine to fire off of a prime!! I am going crazy trying to get to the bottom of it! At this point I would still have to say that I have some sort of igntion issue....Maybe its not firing under compression? I have tried different plugs and my compression is 150lbs


I just completed the fix using the Nova II module. At first it had good spark but would not start even with a prime. Then I loosened the screws for the coil mount and turned it counter clockwise as far as it would go, still nothing, then I turned it clockwise as far as it would go and it starts and runs good but it is a little hard to start. I have to lock the throttle to start it or pull really fast and also, it won't idle well under 2,500 rpm. I don't think there is any carburetor issues because I tried three different carbs and tuned them every which way. I may turn the coil mount counterclockwise a hair but I almost think it needs to go clockwise more. Not sure because I don't know much about timing a chainsaw. The coil mount is already as far clockwise as it will go. It does run good though. I used the ignition that I could not fix using Foggysails method. I imagine that you already tried turning the coil mount in both directions. If you have tried everything then I think this fix is worth a try. It seems to have worked so far but I still have to put the saw to work. I'll keep updated.


----------



## powerking

How do you install the Nova II module?


----------



## scallywag

powerking said:


> I am going crazy trying to get to the bottom of it!


 
You've probably already mentioned this, but have you changed your plug lead ?


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

powerking said:


> How do you install the Nova II module?



There are a couple threads about it, but I'm still putting money on something weird happening with your flywheel..., especially since you mentioned having to repair one of the poles a few pages ago. I'd try another flywheel before going the Nova route myself.


----------



## tntatro

powerking said:


> How do you install the Nova II module?


The thread is on the Smokstak forum under the title "Sachs Dolmar ignition woes". It is really easy. You completely remove the piece opposite the coil and use only the coil in the fix. Solder the wire coming from the coil to a lead going to the positive terminal of the Nova module and also to a wire going to your switch. Then ground the negative wire from the Nova Module. I haven't been able to further test the ignition because I found that the reason it wouldn't start easily was because I damaged the motor from lean running. My own stupid error involving an aftermarket fuel filter and plugged screen in the carburetor. I'm building an 045 super as soon as I get the case gasket and I'll put the ignition on it. I have a ton of milling to do so I'll be able to test it then. I also agree that you may want to try another flywheel. Even if you get it going, the fix you made could eventually fail from all the vibration.


----------



## tntatro

There is a NOS Bosch flywheel on ebay for $20 from "customchainsawparts". That is a decent price especially for a new one. Here is the link. Flywheel


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

tntatro said:


> There is a NOS Bosch flywheel on ebay for $20 from "customchainsawparts". That is a decent price especially for a new one. Here is the link. Flywheel



+1


----------



## tntatro

powerking said:


> How do you install the Nova II module?


I just tried the Nova II fix on my 045 super. I was going to put the ignition from my 056 magnum that I fried but I found another cylinder on ebay, just waiting for it. For the 045 I used the first ignition that I fixed using foggysails method, then fried when I had it on my 056 magnum. I am now having the same problem you are. Excellent spark but will not start. Tried all different ignition positions, two different carburetors, and two different flywheels. I'll let you know if I get this one figured out.


----------



## Jesse snowden

foggysail said:


> Has anybody tried the "FIX"?



Currently waiting for the capacitor in the mail, a great man on this forum offered to send me one since I couldn't find the right one on ebay!

Until it shows up, this is my progress.

The green is #12 XHHW stranded. Scraps from work. The blue is #12 THHN stranded, with that extra clear jacket that southwire puts on the super slick. The brown in the crimp lug is #18 with a non labeled rubber insulation from a computer power supply. I tried to used the same #12 THHN but it couldn't make the bend under the coil. how has your insulation held up so far? I'm worried about it lasting with the heat. 

Btw, thank you sooooo much for taking the time to put up all this info. You saved me hundreds of dollars (if I did it right) and really saved this saw. I've got a half dozen valuable logs waiting for me to mill and I can't wait for weeks to get this unit running. Very much appreciated!!


----------



## powerking

...SO i hang my head low still.........I grabbed another Bosch Flywheel off ebay and it came today....I was all excited to put it on and try it out.......no such luck......still will not fire.......I actually got one pop out of it, but quickly got tired after many attempts...At this point I think it may make its way up onto Ebay...


----------



## tntatro

powerking said:


> ...SO i hang my head low still.........I grabbed another Bosch Flywheel off ebay and it came today....I was all excited to put it on and try it out.......no such luck......still will not fire.......I actually got one pop out of it, but quickly got tired after many attempts...At this point I think it may make its way up onto Ebay...


It sounds like a good sign if you got a pop out of it.


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

powerking said:


> ...SO i hang my head low still.........I grabbed another Bosch Flywheel off ebay and it came today....I was all excited to put it on and try it out.......no such luck......still will not fire.......I actually got one pop out of it, but quickly got tired after many attempts...At this point I think it may make its way up onto Ebay...



Bummer. It has to be something simple. How far away from the originally spec'd capacitor recommended by Foggy is the one you are using..., spec-wise, that is. Seems like you were at least getting some sort of activity with the Nova but never zeroed in on the timing adjustment via moving the flywheel and coil around. Considering yours is basically the first case of what has otherwise been a simple and proven fix, seems like if it were a snake it woulda bit ya by now. If the flywheel was replaced by the correct flywheel, the only other variables are the capacitor and your workmanship, not to question the latter after all you've been through, here. 

Now my money is on the cap.


----------



## powerking

..Here is the cap I am using...this is also the second one I have tried


----------



## tntatro

That is the exact same capacitor that I used on my first fix and it worked great for over a year. I finally got the 045 with the Nova module to start and run but it idles high. If I tune it down to 2,500 rpm it will stall. I had to turn the ignition mount all the way clockwise and then turn the flywheel 1/2 a key width counterclockwise. I also had to lock the throttle wide open with a zip tie and pull really fast. I guess it keeps flooding.


----------



## tntatro

powerking said:


> ..Here is the cap I am using...this is also the second one I have tried


I think I finally figured out the Nova II fix that I was having problems with. At first I couldn't get any pops out of it. Advanced the timing as many have said is necessary for this particular fix and still nothing. Then I treated it like it was flooded. Used a zip tie to give it full throttle and pulled really fast. That would start it.

Today I was trying different flywheel positions and found that I could get it to start between 1/2" advanced and 1 - 1/8" advanced. At 1 - 1/8" it was uncomfortable because the cord would sometimes pull back. It was still hard to start though.

I decided to put in a new spark plug and found that it was a little easier to start but after a while it would be hard to start again. Then I checked the spark plug gap on all the plugs I had tried. They were all slightly wide. I set the proper spark plug gap, turned the flywheel to 7/8" advanced (in the middle of the extremes) and it seems to start and run nicely. Cold start is a little hard but when warmed up it just takes one pull. It also still does not idle well under 2,500 rpm and the chain advances slightly. I ordered a carb kit and clutch springs to see if that will help.

So in other words, try checking your spark plug gap. It should be .020" (.5 mm).


----------



## powerking

.......Advancing your flywheel 7/8"......how did you do that? by removing the key I suppose? I have tried every area in that keyhole slot in the stator plate......I still cant believe my timing could be "that" far off.......I suppose it doesnt take much though.......My spark is so very consistent and strong blue


----------



## tntatro

On mine I turned the plate all the way clockwise and that wasn't enough. Then I removed the flywheel key and marked the crankshaft where the key was in a place where I could see the mark with the flywheel on to adjust it. From the crankshaft, a key width equals about an inch on the circumference of the flywheel. Each fin is about a half inch. Turn the flywheel counterclockwise to advance the timing. I went in increments of 1/8".

I'm surprised you would need to with the foggysail fix. Others have said that with this other fix the 056 saws need to advance about a key width or 1".

If you keep trying 1/8" at a time then eventually the cord will start pulling back. When that happens you know you have gone too far and there may be a different problem if it didn't at least pop before you got there. 

I think all the pulling tends to flood the saw. That is why I kept starting it at full throttle.


----------



## JonCraig

Dumb question--you're just running it w/out a key in the flywheel, then? I wonder if a sudden lurch (chainbrake doesn't apply here, but maybe hitting something?) would slip the flywheel? Maybe there's plenty enough friction between the flywheel & crank that it's a non-issue.


----------



## tntatro

JonCraig said:


> Dumb question--you're just running it w/out a key in the flywheel, then? I wonder if a sudden lurch (chainbrake doesn't apply here, but maybe hitting something?) would slip the flywheel? Maybe there's plenty enough friction between the flywheel & crank that it's a non-issue.


Yes, I did remove the key. I ran it a little doing test cuts and it didn't slip. After I confirm that the ignition is working properly and hopefully won't have to take it off for a long time, I will put some locktite on maybe. I have heard that the key is only for lining up the flywheel and doesn't actually hold it in place.


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

The flywheel key is for timing alignment. The taper of the crank is where the flywheel gets its attachment strength. A crankshaft will typically break (usually on the PTO side) before a flywheel key will shear.

Other threads address alternative methods and trigger mechanisms and should be referred to for such solutions.

Foggy's fix in this thread (when done per instruction with an appropriate value chip) does not require any timing adjustments and seems to have been successful in every instance but two. Perhaps a review of earlier posts could shed new light on why these cases are failures.


----------



## powerking

...I whole-heartidly agree that Foggy's fix is pure genius.....I def am one of the exceptions....Which I believ is "something" in the ignition system.......Im just getting a sore arm pulling this thing 100's of times......


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## tntatro

powerking said:


> ...I whole-heartidly agree that Foggy's fix is pure genius.....I def am one of the exceptions....Which I believ is "something" in the ignition system.......Im just getting a sore arm pulling this thing 100's of times......


I know what you mean. I just repaired a clone ms381, built an 038 magnum, two 056 magnums and this 045 super. My elbow joints hurt and I also pulled a muscle in my back with this 045. 

Before you give up you could try the fix I did on my 045 using the Nova II module. It still starts hard when cold but I'm waiting on a carb rebuild kit to see if that helps, although it started fine with a different ignition. With this fix you know the timing needs to be advanced. Right now there are used Stihl modules on ebay for around $20. They might work better than the Nova module. Part number is 1118 400 1001.

The foggysail fixes I did that were successful were excellent but it didn't work for this ignition on my 045. Now it at least will start and run. I still have to rebuild the carb, put in new clutch springs and put it to work to see how it holds up.

If all else fails I'm considering buying one of those aftermarket ignitions from Germany. I hear they work good and are compatible with these flywheels. Maybe not a bad option for $115.


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

Any chance these two particular ignitions require additional detail to completely delete the effect of the original cap from the circuit? Heating and scraping potting to cut traces is hardly an exact science. Maybe not the same component or exact same trace in the earlier ignitions? Maybe excessive heat during the potting softening process created additional contact elsewhere in the potting layers not readily evident?

Another 'if all else fails' option is to convert to the equally notorious SEM setup, though it would seem like rustling up other bad Bosch modules for.continuing to implement the Foggy fix would be easy enough and also possibly solve the mystery


----------



## tntatro

On the ignition I tried to fix with foggysails method that didn't work, I did the first attempt, then removed all the wiring and replaced with new + used a different spark plug wire. Checked the connection that was cut and scraped more out just to make sure. I pretty much went over everything and used all different wires and capacitor and it was exactly the same. 

The spark was not consistent though. It sometimes would spark, sometimes would not, sometimes would start and run fine but would not last.

The other fix uses only the coil and new module. All the other stuff is disconnected.


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## powerking

...I would love to find another dead bosch igntion and try the fix again, but no such luck. My spark is always consistent....nice an blue...my guessis, its sparking at the wrong time....Check most prior posts with video


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## tntatro

In post 518 you said that you set the flywheel to a position and it snapped the cord out of your hand. I would go back to that position and retard the timing (turn flywheel clockwise) from there at 1/8" increments (from the outer circumference of flywheel) until it no longer pulls back. The cord snapping back is a good reference point that tells you that it is advanced too much.

That should work. I know it sucks when the cord pulls back but the faster you pull the less likely it will pull back. I suggest getting it to a point where the pull back is minimal and if you can't get it to start there then it probably isn't the timing. Be methodical and adjust it in small increments and you will find where the timing should be.


----------



## tntatro

I found out why my saw was not starting easily. Nothing to do with the spark plug gap but setting the gap was helpful. The top cover has a piece broken where a screw used to go above the carburetor linkage. Without that screw in, the choke lever was not closing all the way. I fixed it by bending the choke linkage. Starts and runs nicely now.

I also found that the fuel line is leaking due to a loss of elasticity around the fitting. That is probably what was causing a high idle, chain advancing and stalling when turned on its side.

I'm anticipating that after I put a new fuel line in it will be running properly. Just waiting on parts.

After all this, it's looking like the Nova II fix is a good alternative if foggysails method doesn't work. I recommend trying the foggysail method first, then if it doesn't work or it fails later then try the Nova II fix.

I'm pretty sure that between these two fixes the probability of fixing a failed Bosch ignition is very high.


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

Just read about your success in the other thread. Good deal. Should give Powerking some hope!

Would be interesting to see if the Foggy fix would also work for you now that the other issues have been identified. Timing and air/fuel at startup need to be mighty close to designed parameters to work right!


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## PogoInTheWoods

Here's a link to using a timing light on a chainsaw. Not the best, but does provide a basic idea and also establishes the presence of an ignition advance on the first coil.


----------



## tntatro

The particular ignition that I just used was originally fixed using foggysails method then I fried it from overheating an 056 magnum + ruined the cylinder. I fried an SEM ignition before the Bosch. Two good ignitions in a row, only two milling cuts made. That problem turned out to be a plugged carb screen due to an aftermarket fuel filter. 

The 045 would start and run fine with a different ignition. I don't know why the choke problem only showed with this ignition. On one ignition fix attempt, foggysails method did not work. The spark was inconsistent. I tried the Nova fix but couldn't get it to start. Now that I figured this one out I think I can get it to work. It had good spark.

So far I have had three out of four successes with the foggysail fix. Two of them are in my two 056 magnums and one was fried from overheating and I did the Nova fix and it's in the 045 super now. 

The last one, that failed the foggysail fix, I did the Nova fix but still have to put in a saw and try to get it to work. I did try it once already but switched ignitions with a working one when attempts failed.


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

Your persistence is to be admired, sir!


----------



## davidricciardella

Does anyone have 2 capacitors laying around they'd like to part with?


----------



## scallywag

davidricciardella said:


> Does anyone have 2 capacitors laying around they'd like to part with?


 
If you get real stuck and can't find any in the US?.... I have a few spares!


----------



## Ty Stanton

Hi there. I just found this info last night and I would love to save my 056 super. I found this on Ebay and was wondering if it is the correct part. If anyone inthe US has Aextra one they could sellmeit would be appreciated. http://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-PHILIP...e371105&pid=100005&rk=3&rkt=6&sd=161203941323


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## tntatro

Ty Stanton said:


> Hi there. I just found this info last night and I would love to save my 056 super. I found this on Ebay and was wondering if it is the correct part. If anyone inthe US has Aextra one they could sellmeit would be appreciated. http://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-PHILIPS-BC-MKP378-1uF-400V-5-P-27-5mm-Film-Capacitor-222237852105/151241678480?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIC.MBE&ao=1&asc=20131003132420&meid=5cbf31a813674a34bca011f1ae371105&pid=100005&rk=3&rkt=6&sd=161203941323


That is almost identical to what I have been using except mine says MKP379 instead of MKP378. Everything else is the same. If I remember right I believe it's the 1uF and 400V that is important. I also used the 630V and it worked. I'm pretty sure you got the right one.


----------



## Ty Stanton

Thank you. I have ordered them. I'll update in A month when they come.


----------



## johndean

Paul Brodie said:


> Hi,
> I am the seller on eBay who had the capacitors you guys were using but I've run out of them. I do have many other caps available but you said they should be pulse rated and that limits things a bit. If you can provide me with more info about the ratings for the caps you need, I can try to get some for you, maybe some much closer to the original or even superior to the original. Unfortunately, .8uF is not a common capacitance at all but I'm sure I can get .68uF, if they will work. The voltage could be difficult. How important is the 400 volt rating? Will 250 volt caps work? Also, is physical size a factor? I believe you said that the ones I was selling on eBay were a bit larger than the original. Finally, do they have to be polypropylene or will polyester caps work?


Hi All,
Thanks for all the info on this repair. I was able to source 2 1uf 400v rating on Ebay . They were rectangle type but by removing part of the board was able to mount them vertical in the space where the original one wentl.
It now works well. johndean australia


----------



## Dostin

foggysail said:


> Bill--
> 
> The only thing I ask is to keep the forum informed of your progress so ALL can benefit. Today we are still waiting for Dostin's status with his problem. His last post, 402 leaves the board hanging after my suggestions. To my knowledge his is the only mod that supposedly failed even though he indicates that a high voltage was present when he received a shock. But if his saw has no spark...........
> 
> Good luck and enjoy




Sorry for the wait but Life took over and the saw sat in the basement until today. I still have no spark but maybe found the culprit....seems I overlooked the specs on the capacitor I got in the mail and this could be my problem. The Capacitor I have on the saw is : .1uF 5% 1000volts, Vishay Film Capacitor, RoHS compliant from Mouser. I did confirm that I have continuity all the way through the transformer and spark plug wire. I also confirmed that I get some voltage at the capacitor when I spin the motor with a drill and the other side of the capacitor has a good ground. So I will be ordering a new capacitor and we'll see what happens!


----------



## powerking

So for those of you that have been following my posts, I have done the FoggySail fix on my Bosch setup, I did end up getting spark, but I could not get that thing to run at all. I had great blue spark and great fuel. I ended up coming across another Bosch ignition (unmodified). I installed it and low and behold it fired on 2nd pull and ran great!!! I wonder if something in the trigger portion of the coil is bad or out of time somehow, but for now, I will run it with the unmodified Bosch setup and see how well it goes....


----------



## tntatro

Your suspicions were right all along. Glad you got it going. 

I got my second Nova II/Bosch ignition going and it runs good. I think I had so much trouble the first time around because the carburetors are a bit old and they would do okay with the idle at 2,500 but not so good with the Nova fix that requires them to idle at 2,000. A good carb cleaning and diaphragm soaking fixed that. So far all my Bosch electronic ignitions for the 056 have been successfully repaired. Some with the Foggysail fix and two required the Nova II fix. 

I wonder if yours has a bad coil or if it is the trigger. If it is the trigger then the Nova fix should work but if it's the coil then it's probably done. I have two more untested Bosch electronic ignitions to mess with and another that has spark but haven't run it hot yet. I also picked up an early style SEM. So far the SEM has nothing at all.


----------



## powerking

tntatro said:


> Your suspicions were right all along. Glad you got it going.
> 
> I got my second Nova II/Bosch ignition going and it runs good. I think I had so much trouble the first time around because the carburetors are a bit old and they would do okay with the idle at 2,500 but not so good with the Nova fix that requires them to idle at 2,000. A good carb cleaning and diaphragm soaking fixed that. So far all my Bosch electronic ignitions for the 056 have been successfully repaired. Some with the Foggysail fix and two required the Nova II fix.
> 
> I wonder if yours has a bad coil or if it is the trigger. If it is the trigger then the Nova fix should work but if it's the coil then it's probably done. I have two more untested Bosch electronic ignitions to mess with and another that has spark but haven't run it hot yet. I also picked up an early style SEM. So far the SEM has nothing at all.





Im in the process of softening up all the "potting" on the old bad bosch unit to see if something visibly doesnt look right. I was always getting spark, but maybe it was 180 degrees out of phase or something.........Now its time to get a nice bar and chain and try her out!


----------



## William Balaska

powerking said:


> So for those of you that have been following my posts, I have done the FoggySail fix on my Bosch setup, I did end up getting spark, but I could not get that thing to run at all. I had great blue spark and great fuel. I ended up coming across another Bosch ignition (unmodified). I installed it and low and behold it fired on 2nd pull and ran great!!! I wonder if something in the trigger portion of the coil is bad or out of time somehow, but for now, I will run it with the unmodified Bosch setup and see how well it goes....



Out of time, the other issue with these modules.


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## powerking

William Balaska said:


> Out of time, the other issue with these modules.


....This wasnt a Nova Module...This was done Foggysail Fix.....by moveing the internal cap and making it an external cap for heat transfer I believe


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## powerking

.....For those inquiring minds about the inside of the Bosch Ignition........see pic..........Also the blue thing is the cap that goes bad.....VERY cheaply made...actual value is .8uf/400volts


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## mgr

Are there other markings on the cap?


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## powerking




----------



## globtrotter69

Hi.I'am a owner a Stihl 056, and I have the same problem with ignition, my question :do I have to cut the connection on the red line that was correct?? or no?.


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## mgr

Yes, you have to cute it. That connection is the faulty cap.


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## powerking

I went out and ran the saw hard yesterday morning and it died after about 15 minutes with no spark. SO I took this coil out and did the Foggysail fix to this coil and low and behold, This one was a success!! I ran the saw for about an hour after that and it didnt miss a beat!


----------



## Alex2506

foggysail said:


> THE FIX!!!!
> 
> This may be a little verbose but my intent is to convey all that is needed to implement the fix. So first, I will start with a failed ignition showing and describing the repair steps. The tools you will need are: soldering iron....25 watts should work using solder designed for electronic work NOT PLUMBING SOLDER, I recommend an inexpensive heat gun...Harbor Freight maybe but with care you can work without one, epoxy designed for plastics.... HD or Lowes for about $5, electric drill with a 1/4 or so bit, a wire crimp tool with a lug (see pictures), and last I used a hot glue gun to sort of seal up the mounted new capacitor. The hot glue I used is industrial quality and you can get by substituting caulking selected from one of the many types available. And of course both a blade and Philips screwdriver will come in handy.View attachment 348005
> 
> 
> Heat the small section as shown in the above picture, try to avoid heating the pulse transformer. The potting does not have to melt, just soften so a small section can be removed with a screwdriver or other suitable tool.
> View attachment 348006
> 
> 
> DON'T GET CARRIED AWAY chipping out that potting material! Take you time doing this. In teh above picture you see the shinny tinned copper PC run. The next picture will show where I want you to cut. Try to leave about 1/8" gap.
> View attachment 348005
> View attachment 348006
> View attachment 348007
> 
> 
> Heat up your soldering iron and get ready to solder an insulated wire onto the right hand side of the exposed PC bus (not the short piece to the left). I salvaged my wire from an old computer power supply and because I added 3 wires, I used two different colors so I could tell which went where. 18 gauge stranded wire will work fine. Please! Don't use a length of solid core house wire, your asking for trouble.View attachment 348009
> 
> 
> I tucked that yellow wire under the pulse transformer. There is another wire that you add using a crimped lug. Secure it under the screw (holding the pulse transformer) above where you made your cut. Don't tighten the screw yet. Later when you install the ignition that lug will be in the way trying to get the mounting screw into the saw proper. That is when you will tighten the lug down. OH-- avoid using the yellow sized lugs. They are much larger and can get in the way of the rotating flywheel. Adding a third wire is entirely up to you, I used black so I would not mix it with the others. I cut the shutdown wire that goes to the on/off switch and replaced it with this third wire. If you don't bother replacing the shutdown wire, take care that the old wire's insulation is intact, cover it, tape it or just cut it out, it your decision. Remember if you disable that wire, you disable the on/off circuit to shut the saw off.View attachment 348012
> 
> 
> Now here is where each of you can add value! I squeezed all three wires into the shared hole with the spark plug wire. There is a rubber grommet in the hole so they can be made to fit. Maybe you want to drill a new hole....???? Anyway, that is left for you to decide. After pushing the wires into the grommet, I used a piece of steel wire... coat hanger will work... shaped with a hook on the end to fish the wires out. Next I drilled 3 holes in the plastic air shield....1/4" or thereaboiut should work. Tow of the holes is for a tie wrap that I used to hold the new capacitor in place. The other hole is for the two yellow wires to pass through. Note I left the wires on the outside of the plastic to avoid them getting caught with the flywheel's fan. That's why you need to drill a hole for the wires.
> 
> View attachment 348013
> 
> 
> Scrub the plastic under the tie wrap with alcohol and also scrub the new capacitor with the same. Mix up your epoxy. Paint generous amount of epoxy across the section under the tie wrap and on one side of the new capacitor. The capacitor will seat under the tie wrap with its two wire terminals pointing downward toward the flywheel. MAKE SURE you seat that cap such that it has space for the wires to be soldered to the terminals such that they don't get damaged by the fan. That is important! After pushing the new cap into place, tighten up on the tie wrap. Next pull both yellow wires into place and cut them leaving enough length to strip 1/4" or so needed to solder one wire to each terminal.
> 
> View attachment 348022
> 
> 
> I used my trusty old, beat up glue gun to bury the new capacitor along with the new wires with hot glue. This ensures they will not move about with the saw's vibration.
> 
> 
> View attachment 348016
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 348021
> 
> 
> 
> IF YOU GOT THIS FAR---------- YOU HAVE COMPLETED THE FIX!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> You can test the fix after the epoxy dries along with the hot glue or caulking or whatever you select to use.
> 
> Assemble the saw so you can pull the starter rope....remove the spark plug from the engine, clip a grounding wire to it and pull the starting rope. If things go well, you should have a nice blue spark!
> 
> Will try to answer any questions-- Good luck, you can do it! Its not brain surgery!
> 
> Foggy


Hi, thanks for info.. I have a question, you said you added 3 wires, 2 yellow and 1 black, where did you conected the black wire?
Thanks!


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

The kill switch. Worth replacing with better (or new) wire as it is notoriously prone to insulation rub-through and shorting to ground.

_Adding a third wire is entirely up to you, I used black so I would not mix it with the others. __I cut the shutdown wire that goes to the on/off switch and replaced it with this third _(black) _wire._


----------



## Joshjd49

Working on performing this fix to my 056 super today. I removed the flywheel and I have a different ignition than what the pictures look like. Upon reviewing this thread, it appears to be a bosch ignition not an SEM. The part number on the ignition is 2-207-031-114. Can this type of ignition be fixed with this solution?


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## mgr

This fix from Foggysail is for the Bosch ignition type. The type from your picture is a Bosch so you can try to make it work again.


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

Correct. This is a SEM ignition.


----------



## Joshjd49

mgr said:


> This fix from Foggysail is for the Bosch ignition type. The type from your picture is a Bosch so you can try to make it work again.





PogoInTheWoods said:


> Correct. This is a SEM ignition.



Ok, that is good news. Question: What do I need to do with the 2 wires coming from what I believe is the coil into the potting? I feel like when I remove the potting the 2 wires will get destroyed.


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## mgr

Here do you need removing some epoxy poting.


----------



## Chris_the_wrench

I just joined this site after finding it with a google search for "stihl 056 ignition problem'. I've had this saw for about 12 years and it's worked great for me. In the past few years in started shutting down after 20 minutes, but then just before Christmas(after the nasty Eugene ice storm) it died and wouldn't restart. Luckily I found this thread. ANYWAYS, thanks! I ordered my capacitor from digi-key and had it a couple days later. Part #399-12847-ND. I was surprised by it's size(huge) when it arrived. I installed it according to the instructions but still had no spark. I installed a new spark plug wire so I figured I bunged that up and that was my issue, but that checked out ok. I went back to the beginning of everything and realized I didn't cut the circuit path on the board enough. I redid that, bench tested the unit and had spark! Reassembled the remainder of the saw and went and cut some wood. All good now! Tomorrow I have about 4 hours of cutting ahead of me, a real test. 

Thanks again!
-Chris


----------



## globtrotter69

Done


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## PogoInTheWoods

You could weld with that spark!


----------



## Joshjd49

mgr said:


> Here do you need removing some epoxy poting.



Ok, I'm a little confused. I don't know if I am missing something in the directions or something else. See the picture below for the noted differences in my ignition:




Any advice on how to handle the fix with the noted differences?


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

You will still most likely find the same circuit trace in the same general spot as the pic in post #587 above. You only need to remove the potting in that area which should not affect the wires unless you severely overheat the potting trying to soften it for scraping.


----------



## foggysail

Hi Guys-- 

Been awhile since I visited the forums and was surprised to see that my old thread still has activity. I noticed that many who implemented my fix believe they have timing problems. I want to assure all that the "fix" should not affect timing! The function of this capacitor in the circuit is to act as an energy storage device that is charged (energy is put into it) and discharged creating the spark. The charging event is fixed with the magnets on the flywheel. The discharge event is also determined by separate capacitor's charge ( call this a trigger charge) reaching a voltage of about 1-3 volts that fires an SCR (silicon controlled rectifier)

The easy way to explain the SCR is to consider a toggle switch and the "toggling" occurs with the 1-3 volts I described above. The capacitor for this function is low voltage and the charging and discharging of it is kind of unique because at higher RPM the capacitor with the aid of some other components (don't want this to get complicated) triggers the SCR earlier than at low RPM. Clever! The saw has a built in self advance at high RPM.

It is important to be careful of the wire that exits from the potting to the shut down switch. That POS wire used German insulation pushed by environmentalists that self destructs at high temperatures. I found that the combination of the POS switch and the POS wire got to me! I finally cut that wire at the potting and chucked the switch. The saw shuts down almost as fast using the choke. If any part of that insulation fails allowing the bare wire to touch any metal, the ignition is shut down just as if the switch was turned off.

Good luck all--

Foggy


Alex2506 said:


> Hi, thanks for info.. I have a question, you said you added 3 wires, 2 yellow and 1 black, where did you conected the black wire?
> Thanks!



The black wire goes to the POS switch. The original wire has an insulation problem


----------



## 62alf

Foggy, glad to see your still around! I'm sure many are as grateful for your efforts as I am. Thank you again.

Sent from my GT-I9295 using Tapatalk


----------



## foggysail

62alf said:


> Foggy, glad to see your still around! I'm sure many are as grateful for your efforts as I am. Thank you again.
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9295 using Tapatalk




You're welcome


----------



## tubastuff

powerking said:


> .....For those inquiring minds about the inside of the Bosch Ignition........see pic..........Also the blue thing is the cap that goes bad.....VERY cheaply made...actual value is .8uf/400voltsView attachment 546687



It appears that the capacitor is the only thing contained in the potting compound of the far "leg" of the assembly. I'm getting ready to dig into my 056's ignition and am wondering if tying into the circuit on that far leg instead of modifying the PCB might be a better approach. Has anyone tried this?

For what it's worth, if you can't find the 0.82-1.0 uF 400V capacitor, a pair of 0.47 uF 400V capacitors in parallel will do the job and might be easier to find.


----------



## tntatro

tubastuff said:


> It appears that the capacitor is the only thing contained in the potting compound of the far "leg" of the assembly. I'm getting ready to dig into my 056's ignition and am wondering if tying into the circuit on that far leg instead of modifying the PCB might be a better approach. Has anyone tried this?
> 
> For what it's worth, if you can't find the 0.82-1.0 uF 400V capacitor, a pair of 0.47 uF 400V capacitors in parallel will do the job and might be easier to find.


I think that is what the repair is. Breaking the circuit to the old built in capacitor and making a new circuit with a new capacitor in it. I don't know what the PCB is, I just do it the way that is instructed and it has worked for me. Do you mean just cut that wire and run a circuit with a capacitor directly from the wire on that side? 

I've done five or six now and only one did not work so I repaired it using a Nova II module instead. Out of the others that worked, one has failed because I accidentally overheated the saw and also destroyed the piston and cylinder. I also repaired that one with a Nova II. So far I have a 100% success rate for Bosch electronic ignition repairs for this Model. I like this fix better because you don't have to change the timing.


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

tubastuff said:


> .... am wondering if tying into the circuit on that far leg instead of modifying the PCB might be a better approach.



That's what you do. Cut the trace to the failed cap (under the potting) and tie in the new cap mounted externally. Two of em in parallel may be a bit cumbersome to effectively mount in the suggested location, tho. Now if you mean remove all of the potting _and_ the old cap to use that area for a new cap, not sure there would be enough space even for the desired replacement cap, let alone a pair to obtain the appropriate value. Then there would still be the heat issue...


----------



## tubastuff

PogoInTheWoods said:


> That's what you do. Cut the trace to the failed cap (under the potting) and tie in the new cap mounted externally. Two of em in parallel may be a bit cumbersome to effectively mount in the suggested location, tho. Now if you mean remove all of the potting _and_ the old cap to use that area for a new cap, not sure there would be enough space even for the desired replacement cap, let alone a pair to obtain the appropriate value. Then there would still be the heat issue...



All I'm suggesting is that rather than risk making a hash of cutting traces on the circuit board, it might be safer for us cowards to sever the cap lead on the far end, nearest the capacitor. I'm thinking that if I foul up on that, I still have the circuit board mod option.


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

Let us know how it goes.


----------



## hotshot

This little guy would not revive with "The Fix". I cut the PC bus just like the pics, and my previous two modules, but no sparky.

I even cut off the kill wire to eliminate that variable, but all I can get is a weak pulse on the high side while holding onto the lead.

Does the pulse means the Darlington SCR is working? The coil ohmed fine on both the primary & secondary sides.

So I've tried three now, the first fix did great, but I went downhill from there.


----------



## tntatro

I've tried five or six fixes since discovering this thread and about half took the fix. For the ones that did not work I used a Nova II module or similar and advanced the flywheel and now have a 100% success for fixing them one way or another. 

It took a bit of tinkering to get the Nova fix figured out because I had many used parts giving me troubles such as carburetors and weak clutch springs. After figuring out it was the worn out parts and not the ignition I've been having good luck with ignitions. Not so good luck selling these saws though.


----------



## foggysail

hotshot said:


> This little guy would not revive with "The Fix". I cut the PC bus just like the pics, and my previous two modules, but no sparky.
> 
> I even cut off the kill wire to eliminate that variable, but all I can get is a weak pulse on the high side while holding onto the lead.
> 
> Does the pulse means the Darlington SCR is working? The coil ohmed fine on both the primary & secondary sides.
> 
> So I've tried three now, the first fix did great, but I went downhill from there.
> 
> View attachment 575110
> View attachment 575111




Hotshot-- not sure what is causing your problem. The spark intensity is determined by the amount of energy stored in the capacitor but having even a weak spark indicates that the scr is discharging stored energy. The amount of energy that the capacitor receives is determined by the rotating magnets. Is there any damage to the woodruff key....such as a small bend?

A lawn mower that hits a rock commonly has a starting problem after such events because the woodruff key gets bent which changes where the magnets are in relation to the firing. But I think this only happens with ignition point systems. I am guessing here........ if you have another capacitor, try swapping it and be sure the value is 1 uf, 0.8 does work but the larger cap provides greater spark energy. Your soldering looks fine.....but try reheating it anyway.

REmember there are many components in the ignition and any one of the can prevent proper operation. The internal capacitor however has shown to have a high failure rate.

Before you do anything, try swapping the capacitor or double up by using two of them in parallel.


----------



## hotshot

Thanks, yes something else in the circuit on this one is faulty, but it looks brand new! Will try 2 in parallel first, those will add like resistors in series.

Then I'm going to tap into the coil primary grey hot wire with a Stihl 11184001001 module routed to ground & see what happens. I will leave the new capacitor (or two) in the circuit.

Like I need to find place for another wire coming come out, LOL. I'll post back on the results.


----------



## foggysail

There are two reasons for having a series resistor in the coil circuit......... The first use of a resistor which was in the primary of the high voltage transformer..ie spark coil was to allow a car's coil to have maximum voltage during starting. When the engine was starting, the resistor was shorted out to compensate of the battery voltage drop while the starter was being operated. After the engine starts, the resistor was again in series with the transformer That was important with older 6 volt systems. Not sure if they still use this approach. I want to emphasize that older car ignitions used a flyback technique where as today...and teh saw.... they just transform the voltage to the secondary via the transformer's turns ratio.

The next reason was to damp out oscillations in the spark wire connected to the plugs. In fact today all spark plug wires have a carbon conductor that carries the energy to the plugs. This damps out those oscillations which could cause multiple firings.

So back to the saw. I doubt a resistor in series with the spark wire will hurt, but the voltage is so high it most likely will require a resistor rated for high voltage. Now if you put a resistor in series with the capacitor you will increase the time it takes for the capacitor to discharge...governed by the time constant which is the resistor value multiplied by the capacitor value. Also the circuit will behave as two resistors in series, the first will be the impedance (think resistance) looking into the primary of the transformer and the second with be whatever value you use in series. THIS WILL LOWER THE VOLTAGE ACROSS THE TRANSFORMER PRIMARY and result in a lower spark voltage.


----------



## chief56

046 said:


> detailed repair instructions along with clear pictures sure would be appreciated!!!! and much needed ..don't worry about ugly pictures. what's more important is explaining what needs to be replaced/fixed.
> 
> I've got a dead coil to send ... start conversation if you want it for a test Guinea pig


hoiw did your saw


foggysail said:


> A long post! I want to emphasize what I said in an earlier post, NO TIMING CHANGES ARE NEEDED............PERIOD!
> 
> I am not running a home laboratory to do failure analysis so the exact reasons for the Bosch capacitor failure is best asked to Bosch, not me and that includes what dielectric is used in their capacitor. And no, an electrolytic capacitor is out of the question for this application. The dielectric of my suggested capacitor is AC & pulse rated metalized film polypropylene.


how did your saw repair work out ? where can i get these capacitors ? thanks


----------



## UmpquaMichael

It worked for me. This is my first post. I have read a lot though. I am just getting into the fun. The first saw I have tried to repair and it actually worked. I didn't doubt your abilities. Just my own. I have a Stihl 056, a Husqvarna 272xp, and 2 Husqvarna 2100's. 
The roar when it fired up put a light in my eyes and a smile on my face. Now to see how it does in the extended version. Thanks for figuring this out. I don't know if you still look at this thread, but I really appreciate it.


----------



## paul99

I tried this fix with my old Dolmar 152 a few weeks back (it uses the same Bosch ignition) but in my case it didn't quite work. I say quiet because although it did result in a spark where there was previously none it was too weak to start the saw. After a bit of time double checking everything with no improvement I opted for the ignition chip fix. I couldn't get hold of a NovaII quickly here in the UK but a cheap single leg unversal ignition chip (sig01) and timing advance later and the saw runs. 

I'd always try this capacitor fix first though as if it isn't successful (and going by this thread you're unlucky if it doesn't) you already have the wiring in place to install the chip externally - clipping and moving the wire you soldered to the track to the coil input wire instead takes only a few minutes and the earth wire remains the same and is required also.

Thanks to foggysail for the fix, although it didn't quite work for me this time around I'm sure it will at some point in the future.


----------



## hotshot

Any pictures taken of the tap locations?

So on the Dolmar 152, you re-soldered/repaired the cut PC bus and returned to the original capacitor?

Why not leave it in & do both?, i.e. the new cap and new chip.


----------



## paul99

hotshot said:


> Any pictures taken of the tap locations?
> 
> So on the Dolmar 152, you re-soldered/repaired the cut PC bus and returned to the original capacitor?
> 
> Why not leave it in & do both?, i.e. the new cap and new chip.



I performed the foggysail fix as per his photos - that was not successful so essentially followed the fix shown here:
https://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=156427

Instead of cutting the module off the stator plate as per those photos I mounted the ignition chip under the top cover using the wiring I had already added for the foggysail fix.

Using the ignition chip does away with the whole trigger half of the orginal bosch module as such the external capacitor added for the foggysail fix is completely redundant so no need to repair the cut pc bus either.

Hope that helps
Paul


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

Good posts. Thanks for sharing your experience and that link. I wonder how many foggy fixes have failed due to a 'close enough in value' substitute capacitor being used instead of the one originally recommended? Different ones seem to have been tried with mixed results.

I have an 056 project in the wings with a bad SEM ignition and have been following this thread with great interest from the beginning in hopes of coming across a Bosch ignition and flywheel setup. Well, I finally found one..., only forty minutes away from me for $20! Now comes the fun if I can locate one of the correct capacitors. I'll certainly report the results here when I find the time to dive into the project. The saw is filthy and needs a tear down and cleaning before anything else. Who knows what else I may find under the crud, though the piston looks pristine through the exhaust port. I have all of $55 into it so far including the Bosch ignition and flywheel so it'll be a worthwhile project however it turns out. At least it'll be clean!


----------



## paul99

PogoInTheWoods said:


> Good posts. Thanks for sharing your experience and that link. I wonder how many foggy fixes have failed due to a 'close enough in value' substitute capacitor being used instead of the one originally recommended? Different ones seem to have been tried with mixed results.
> 
> I have an 056 project in the wings with a bad SEM ignition and have been following this thread with great interest from the beginning in hopes of coming across a Bosch ignition and flywheel setup. Well, I finally found one..., only forty minutes away from me for $20! Now comes the fun if I can locate one of the correct capacitors. I'll certainly report the results here when I find the time to dive into the project. The saw is filthy and needs a tear down and cleaning before anything else. Who knows what else I may find under the crud, though the piston looks pristine through the exhaust port. I have all of $55 into it so far including the Bosch ignition and flywheel so it'll be a worthwhile project however it turns out. At least it'll be clean!



I suspect in those cases where this fix fails it's not a case of the capacitor value only being close enough but much more likely that any one of the other vintage electrical components in the module that has failed in addition to / instead of the capacitor.

Luckily you get a second chance of success with a Nova II / universal ignition module and I've yet to read about anyone failing with both fixes.

There is also a third option but it's by far most expensive option and that's a direct replacement module sold by Saegenspezi: http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/190590733267?_mwBanner=1 which I believe are based on a universal ignition module and coil on a purpose made plate.


----------



## hotshot

paul99 said:


> I suspect in those cases where this fix fails it's not a case of the capacitor value only being close enough but much more likely that any one of the other vintage electrical components in the module that has failed in addition to / instead of the capacitor.
> 
> Luckily you get a second chance of success with a Nova II / universal ignition module and I've yet to read about anyone failing with both fixes.
> 
> There is also a third option but it's by far most expensive option and that's a direct replacement module sold by Saegenspezi: http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/190590733267?_mwBanner=1 which I believe are based on a universal ignition module and coil on a purpose made plate.



So I tried two caps in parallel, no dice. I could still feel a low voltage pulse if I held the lead wire...

Then I added a Stihl 1118 trigger by scraping off some PVC insulation from the grey primary wire to the coil, and soldered the wire in tee tap style, still no dice. Just had one cap wired in. Could feel a dam hard pulse where I had to let go of the wire though...

Finally, I completely cut off the grey secondary wire between the tee tap and the old PC board, thus isolating the new cap/old epoxied PC board, and now I have a runner. Big blue spark!

Speculation only, but I'll bet the Darlington transistor or a diode in the old board PC was bad all along.

Next step is to grab the timing light and a 12 volt battery to check the recommended 26 degree advanced timing marks.


----------



## tntatro

paul99 said:


> I suspect in those cases where this fix fails it's not a case of the capacitor value only being close enough but much more likely that any one of the other vintage electrical components in the module that has failed in addition to / instead of the capacitor.
> 
> Luckily you get a second chance of success with a Nova II / universal ignition module and I've yet to read about anyone failing with both fixes.
> 
> There is also a third option but it's by far most expensive option and that's a direct replacement module sold by Saegenspezi: http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/190590733267?_mwBanner=1 which I believe are based on a universal ignition module and coil on a purpose made plate.


I've actually recently had 4 fails in a row which has taken my 100% success rate for the fixes to around 50%. I always try the Foggysail fix first and if that doesn't work then I use a Nova module. 

At first I had two successes with the Nova modules and thought that the coil parts rarely failed. The last four that I have tried were unsuccessful with both methods of repair. One was from a points ignition using a Nova module and it would only spark a little at first and then nothing. Another had a very weak spark and I didn't even bother putting the saw together to try it. The last two had decent spark and the saws would start and run for a while but after using them a while they would be hard to start. I found that if I cleaned up the spark plug or put a different one in then they would go a little longer until I had to start it again.

Today I tried the two successful Nova fixes I had and found that I was able to mill a small log into building materials between using the two saws but there was some hard starting. I'm beginning to think that if the Foggysail fix doesn't work then it's likely the coil will not last much longer although I could be wrong. The ones I thought were successful gave me no problems at first but after using them a bit they started showing signs of ignition failure.

I had three successful Foggysail fixes and they all worked flawlessly with no problems and I used them a lot.

Other options that I have discovered are the Sagenspezi ignitions. There is one for around $110 shipped and there is another for around $65 shipped. The $110 one is a direct fit with the Bosch electronic flywheel and worked great for me. The $65 one is for a points ignition but I discovered that it's possible to use a Bosch electronic flywheel on a points ignition. The poles are the same but the key way and timing mark are different. Basically, advance the timing a flywheel key width (same as with Nova module) and it should work, it did for me anyway. So I believe that of you find a good points ignition then you can use your Bosch flywheel (if you have the right crankshaft) and the $65 Sagenspezi should also work but I have not confirmed it yet. I haven't tested this thoroughly, just started it and made a couple small cuts with a points ignition and Bosch electronic flywheel advanced one key width.

If you already have a Nova module then you could get a new coil but they cost the same as the $65 ignition so it's better to get the ignition because it has a new spark plug wire and switch wire also. The coil on the Bosch electronic has a different part number than the points coil but I believe they are the same.

If anyone has suggestions for the failed Nova module fixes then I'd like to try but I think the coils are toast unless all my modules are junk.


----------



## Chesnimnus

tntatro said:


> Other options that I have discovered are the Sagenspezi ignitions. There is one for around $110 shipped and there is another for around $65 shipped. The $110 one is a direct fit with the Bosch electronic flywheel and worked great for me.



I just bought the one from Saegenspezi for the 056 Bosch unit. There were no instructions provided. The new unit appears to be clocked differently than the old Bosch unit. The screw holes are slotted to allow rotation for timing. So, how do I put this in and time it correctly? None of my old timing marks mean anything now.


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## tntatro

Chesnimnus said:


> I just bought the one from Saegenspezi for the 056 Bosch unit. There were no instructions provided. The new unit appears to be clocked differently than the old Bosch unit. The screw holes are slotted to allow rotation for timing. So, how do I put this in and time it correctly? None of my old timing marks mean anything now.


It should be a direct fit. If you install it at one extreme or the other then it should still work. If you install it all the way clockwise then it will be advanced as much as possible. You will know if it is advanced too much if the recoil starter snaps back when you pull it, it should be fine though. I'm assuming you have a Bosch electronic flywheel with the aftermarket Bosch electronic replacement ignition.


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## Chesnimnus

Thanks. Yes, it was the Bosch electronic ignition. Other hidden tasks include buying two new 4mm screws because the base plate is thicker, and installing a female bullet connector on the wire to connect to the new module. Installing that new connector resulted in the old insulation cracking, so I had to remove the old wire, peel off the old broken insulation, install heat shrink tubing along the entire length of the wire, and reinstall.


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## OTAlucard

I Am going to try to mod one of those 070 Ignitions to fit under the flywheel of a 041 av lol when it cools off a bit It might work you never know 
!!!


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## Drago

Buongiorno a tutti ho una dolmar 152 dell'epoca senza corrente, volevo cimentarmi ad apportare la modifica illustrata in questo post
Good morning I have a dolmar 152 of the time without current, I wanted to try to make the editing illustrated in this post













la domanda è posso usare questo condensatore?
The question is I can use this condenser?

http://www.sky-macau.com/Products/4...-400V-824-824J-082uF-820nF-5-P6135095635.html
http://www.electroson.com/producto/condensador-placo/P820K630C

Grazie
Thank you


----------



## Greenmachine

I'd like to express my deepest thanks to foggysail for the fix. Also The Chainsaw Guy for alerting me to this thread.

My 056 is my first chainsaw. After being weened off my father in law's 031 I was ecstatic to buy this used 056 for $150 CAD. It was always challenging to start, even after being serviced. It would shut down when hot, not stay tuned, and eventually it wouldn't start. It leaked oil through failed repairs too.

About four months later I've finally got an excellent saw thanks to the work of foggysail. 

It fires right up now. What a joy after months of yanking and yanking.

I also replaced the starter spring, rebuilt the carb, fuel filter, and mostly fixed the oil leak. It was leaking from like five different places. Yeesh. 

Thanks again!


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

Good to hear. It's a great feeling when you get an old saw straightened out and running right. Out of curiosity, where did you find a replacement capacitor and what value did you use? My next project is my 056. I'm switching to the Bosch setup from a failed SEM ignition. Have the flywheel and module, just need a cap.


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## Greenmachine

Pogo, I bought this cap and picked it up because the shipping's a bit pricey. But I'm sure you can source it elsewhere if you choose. I'd offer to mail you one, but I've only got one left and I always keep a spare.

http://leeselectronic.com/en/product/8015.html

BTW, its bigger than that quarter.


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## PogoInTheWoods

Thank you for the quick response! Shipping can't be too crazy from your source if I can't source one domestically.


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## usmcbuckwild

Resurecting an old but VERY informative thread.


I have an 045 AV (and a 041 FB and a 041 AV FB) I picked up recently. The 045 has the Bosch flywheel but a points ignition, my assumption is someone tossed in a points ignition at some point. It runs ok, not great, but it has developed the “runs 15-30 minutes and die” syndrom synonymous with the Bosch system. My question is this: Can I utilize this ‘fix’ and remove the condenser from under the flywheel and locate the prescribed capacitor outside the flywheel? Will it make any difference or should I just buy a stock condenser and hope it works out?

ANY advice would be appreciated.

Note: All the saws I picked up appear to have been run hard and never had any sort of maintenance or even cleaning. Underneath all the grime and crud the paint/components are almost brand new. Doubt it makes a difference, but figured I should throw that in.

Buck


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## PogoInTheWoods

The 045AV used a points ignition. AVE's were electronic. While possible, it's unlikely that someone converted an AVE to an AV. That said, I would very carefully examine the points setup on your saw and clean the points for starters. Also inspect the wiring for chafing, worn insulation, pinching, etc. I think I'd put my money on the condenser going bad, myself.

Converting to the electronic ignition just for the sake of doing so and/or implementing the fix detailed in this thread would be expensive and probably unnecessary to get the saw running right again. A points saw will generally provide spark you could weld with when properly maintained. Without searching, I would imagine the points and condenser are still readily available if you dig around a little for the parts. I rebuilt one a year or so ago and was still able to get a case gasket and seals through a dealer.

And if you can't get the points setup to work properly, an Atom or Nova module (chip) would probably be the easier, cheaper, and faster way to eliminate the points ignition.


----------



## usmcbuckwild

PogoInTheWoods said:


> The 045AV used a points ignition. AVE's were electronic. While possible, it's unlikely that someone converted an AVE to an AV. That said, I would very carefully examine the points setup on your saw and clean the points for starters. Also inspect the wiring for chafing, worn insulation, pinching, etc. I think I'd put my money on the condenser going bad, myself.
> 
> Converting to the electronic ignition just for the sake of doing so and/or implementing the fix detailed in this thread would be expensive and probably unnecessary to get the saw running right again. A points saw will generally provide spark you could weld with when properly maintained. Without searching, I would imagine the points and condenser are still readily available if you dig around a little for the parts. I rebuilt one a year or so ago and was still able to get a case gasket and seals through a dealer.
> 
> And if you can't get the points setup to work properly, an Atom or Nova module (chip) would probably be the easier, cheaper, and faster way to eliminate the points ignition.



Thank you for the advice! I grew up using my Grandfather’s 041 Farm Boss (until my cousin pawned it for drug money) and am very familiar with that platform amd the points maintenance. Picked these saws up as a “reminiscent reminder of working with my Gramps growing up/the good old days” project.

I did work over the points and the rest of the electronics. I am under the impression it is an AVE but the top cover has been swapped out. The guy I purchased from seemed to ‘redneck engineer’ all of his stuff, the sad state of affairs on all the saws speaks to the efficiency of his repairs. In your opinion would moving the condenser out from under the flywheel improve longevity/efficiency as it will remain cooler?


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## PogoInTheWoods

I don't know if moving the condenser would have much more effect on its longevity or efficiency due to overheating than just a good cleaning of any accumulated funk under the recoil assembly and around the flywheel itself. Can't see how it would hurt, though.


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## hotshot

It probably is a faulty capacitor (condenser) causing it to shut down, if your piston rings aren't worn out & it's losing compresssion when it gets hot.

You can put an in line spark tester on the plug while you're cutting & see if it loses spark when it dies.

The Bosch flywheel FW is correct for the points setup.

The electronic Bosch CD ignition module also uses a Bosch FW, but a different part number & different magnets of course.

The capacitor size that you need for points is only 0.15 to 0.19 microfarads, totally different than the "Foggysail Fix" for the later CD ignitions, but those original style round caps #1115 404 3400 are still available from several places on the internet.

Just tap the old one out from the bottom & drive the new one in from the top with a socket. Those old 041, 045, & 056 points ignitions throw lightning bolts when set up correctly.


----------



## usmcbuckwild

hotshot said:


> It probably is a faulty capacitor (condenser) causing it to shut down, if your piston rings aren't worn out & it's losing compresssion when it gets hot.
> 
> You can put an in line spark tester on the plug while you're cutting & see if it loses spark when it dies.
> 
> The Bosch flywheel FW is correct for the points setup.
> 
> The electronic Bosch CD ignition module also uses a Bosch FW, but a different part number & different magnets of course.
> 
> The capacitor size that you need for points is only 0.15 to 0.19 microfarads, totally different than the "Foggysail Fix" for the later CD ignitions, but those original style round caps #1115 404 3400 are still available from several places on the internet.
> 
> Just tap the old one out from the bottom & drive the new one in from the top with a socket. Those old 041, 045, & 056 points ignitions throw lightning bolts when set up correctly.


m

Thank you for the clarification on the FW!

I used the old school, tried and true ‘lick your fingers and close your eyes’ method of testing spark (Actually I grounded out the plug and visually verified spark, I only use that other method for testing outlets and breakers). Spark looked..... OK. Not horrible but not great. Condensers are cheap, i’ll order one.


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## thebarber

Hi, I've just bought a 056e and it's a cracking saw when running but obviously I have this problem of cutting out and probably need this mod.
I'm having trouble finding the capacitor needed tho, any up to date links please. 
I'm in uk btw.
Cheers in advance


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## thebarber

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.co.uk/ulk/itm/350819434093
Are these ok?


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## foggysail

NO! You need a value closer to 1UF, those shown in your posted URL are only 0.1UF.


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## PogoInTheWoods

The link in post #622 is a closer match, but Foggy may have a comment on that one as well.


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## thebarber

This is whats under the flywheel...
Looks like there's been a problem with the off switch before & it's been scrubbing the flywheel so I'll address that but symptoms of cutting out when hot seem like capacitor., just need to find the right one in UK.


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## foggysail

Is your picture showing a 'shorted' wire, the wire that is used for the shutoff switch????


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## thebarber

Yes, seems it's had a fix before & rubbing under flywheel. 
The saw would only cut out when warm tho so I'm assuming still seems like capacitor problem, obviously I'll address the shut off switch aswell.


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## thebarber

RIGHT!
Capacitor arrived today so got the saw back out to get things ready for the weekend and clean it up.
On doing so stripping further revealed a helicoil in one of the bar bolts which I'll have to replace, also an oil leak so pulled pump out and I'm guessing/ hoping it's the gasket.
Anyone had issues with this on the 56?
It may be the pump but is there anywhere else to look as when stood full of oil it gradually leaks.
Cheers


----------



## Definitive Dave

Hey is anyone set up to repair these ignitions in exchange for good old american green paper or saw parts?
I have a couple (might be as many as 6/7) that are holding up saw projects including a couple race saws lol.
Send me a PM please if you are interested
Dave


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## thebarber

Well she's a runner , fired up last nite.
Just waiting for a oil pump gasket now and refine a few things .
Thanks for the help guys.


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## PogoInTheWoods

Congrats. Where did you source your cap and what value did you use?

@Definitive Dave -- I shot you a PM.


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## thebarber

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/151241678480
Hopefully the gasket will sort the oil leak then were in business


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## PogoInTheWoods

Thank you. I see the WIMA caps below the Philips in your link. I actually have a couple of those. Hafta cross ref the specs to see if they may fly as well. I got them some time ago for an 031 ignition conversion that never occurred and completely forgot about them until seeing them in the link.
Good luck with the oil leak!


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## powerking

......Just an update to the Foggy Fix.....My 056Super is still running great after the fix quite a few months back.......I run it hard with a 36" bar on it, and it doesnt skip a beat!


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## sawfixer

I just got done with this repair and now I don't have any spark. I think the coil is bad and it's only showing 2k Ohms when I think it should be higher at about 8k Ohms. I wanted to know if the coil for the points 056 ignition will work if I solder it in. It looks like the physical dimensions and two screw holes are the same. The listings on Ebay says the 056 points coil will not work on the Bosch and SEM ignitions but I've never had any problems using OEM coils in Chevy engines that had points ignitions when converting them to Mallory Unilite optical trigger systems. I'm hoping the 056 points coils have the same resistance as the Bosch electronic ones.


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## thebarber

Well she ran fine today until it started bogging down a couple of times then stalled & wouldn't fire again. 
Pull starter cord and screeching sound. 
Stripped again to find woodruff key broken so that explains the screeching....
Why would a woodruff key break, age???


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## PogoInTheWoods

Loose flywheel and/or...., you got into something that was severely dragging the saw down and you kept trying to cut anyway?


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## thebarber

Sounds about right


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

Bear in mind that the force of the flywheel nut against the flywheel on the tapered crankshaft is where the strength of the entire attachment is derived. The key is primarily for timing alignment and only a marginal safety feature for the crankshaft in the event it somehow experiences excessive rotational torque. It has nothing to do with how tight the flywheel is. That said, and if the flywheel and crank keyways aren't hogged out, you can obviously just replace the key and probably be fine. In the meantime you could also carefully scribe a line on both the end of the crankshaft and face of the flywheel which correspond to the center of the keyways. Line them up and reinstall the flywheel to see if it still runs close to normal again.


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## thebarber

Sounds about right


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## thebarber

I'll get one from sumwhere. 
Thanks again


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## bigbadbob

thebarber said:


> I'll get one from sumwhere.
> Thanks again


The flywheel and crank must be absolutely clean also. 
I wipe mine down with a cloth soaked in ether or something like that.


----------



## thebarber

On another note, what fuel mix for this saw?
I've been running 50:1 same as my ms231 but been advised its too lean.


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

I run 40:1 (ethanol free) for a little extra lower end protection in all my saws, but 50:1 tuned a little rich shouldn't hurt anything unless the saw is doing major milling or heavy bucking duty. I would then err on the side of caution with a richer fuel/oil mix..., using a high quality synthetic in either case.


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## thebarber

Well she's back
Treated her to a new chain , need filters then carb setting up properly (running erratic, so thinking fuel)
Thanks for advice dudes


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## Ignitionyemi

Welcome everyone.


powerking said:


> .....For those inquiring minds about the inside of the Bosch Ignition........see pic..........Also the blue thing is the cap that goes bad.....VERY cheaply made...actual value is .8uf/400voltsView attachment 546687


I present the original cdi circuit:




Link:https://elektrotanya.com/stihl_045_tirisztoros_gyujtas_lancfuresz.pdf/download.html

Original SCR(BBC CS1.1-05do7F) is not available. Cross reference type BT151/650R recommend.
Use type CBB 22 condenser. 
Hungary is a contractor to renovate the circuits:


Regards nyemi


----------



## DylanA.

foggysail said:


> THE FIX!!!!
> 
> This may be a little verbose but my intent is to convey all that is needed to implement the fix. So first, I will start with a failed ignition showing and describing the repair steps. The tools you will need are: soldering iron....25 watts should work using solder designed for electronic work NOT PLUMBING SOLDER, I recommend an inexpensive heat gun...Harbor Freight maybe but with care you can work without one, epoxy designed for plastics.... HD or Lowes for about $5, electric drill with a 1/4 or so bit, a wire crimp tool with a lug (see pictures), and last I used a hot glue gun to sort of seal up the mounted new capacitor. The hot glue I used is industrial quality and you can get by substituting caulking selected from one of the many types available. And of course both a blade and Philips screwdriver will come in handy.View attachment 348005
> 
> 
> Heat the small section as shown in the above picture, try to avoid heating the pulse transformer. The potting does not have to melt, just soften so a small section can be removed with a screwdriver or other suitable tool.
> View attachment 348006
> 
> 
> DON'T GET CARRIED AWAY chipping out that potting material! Take you time doing this. In teh above picture you see the shinny tinned copper PC run. The next picture will show where I want you to cut. Try to leave about 1/8" gap.
> View attachment 348005
> View attachment 348006
> View attachment 348007
> 
> 
> Heat up your soldering iron and get ready to solder an insulated wire onto the right hand side of the exposed PC bus (not the short piece to the left). I salvaged my wire from an old computer power supply and because I added 3 wires, I used two different colors so I could tell which went where. 18 gauge stranded wire will work fine. Please! Don't use a length of solid core house wire, your asking for trouble.View attachment 348009
> 
> 
> I tucked that yellow wire under the pulse transformer. There is another wire that you add using a crimped lug. Secure it under the screw (holding the pulse transformer) above where you made your cut. Don't tighten the screw yet. Later when you install the ignition that lug will be in the way trying to get the mounting screw into the saw proper. That is when you will tighten the lug down. OH-- avoid using the yellow sized lugs. They are much larger and can get in the way of the rotating flywheel. Adding a third wire is entirely up to you, I used black so I would not mix it with the others. I cut the shutdown wire that goes to the on/off switch and replaced it with this third wire. If you don't bother replacing the shutdown wire, take care that the old wire's insulation is intact, cover it, tape it or just cut it out, it your decision. Remember if you disable that wire, you disable the on/off circuit to shut the saw off.View attachment 348012
> 
> 
> Now here is where each of you can add value! I squeezed all three wires into the shared hole with the spark plug wire. There is a rubber grommet in the hole so they can be made to fit. Maybe you want to drill a new hole....???? Anyway, that is left for you to decide. After pushing the wires into the grommet, I used a piece of steel wire... coat hanger will work... shaped with a hook on the end to fish the wires out. Next I drilled 3 holes in the plastic air shield....1/4" or thereaboiut should work. Tow of the holes is for a tie wrap that I used to hold the new capacitor in place. The other hole is for the two yellow wires to pass through. Note I left the wires on the outside of the plastic to avoid them getting caught with the flywheel's fan. That's why you need to drill a hole for the wires.
> 
> View attachment 348013
> 
> 
> Scrub the plastic under the tie wrap with alcohol and also scrub the new capacitor with the same. Mix up your epoxy. Paint generous amount of epoxy across the section under the tie wrap and on one side of the new capacitor. The capacitor will seat under the tie wrap with its two wire terminals pointing downward toward the flywheel. MAKE SURE you seat that cap such that it has space for the wires to be soldered to the terminals such that they don't get damaged by the fan. That is important! After pushing the new cap into place, tighten up on the tie wrap. Next pull both yellow wires into place and cut them leaving enough length to strip 1/4" or so needed to solder one wire to each terminal.
> 
> View attachment 348022
> 
> 
> I used my trusty old, beat up glue gun to bury the new capacitor along with the new wires with hot glue. This ensures they will not move about with the saw's vibration.
> 
> 
> View attachment 348016
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 348021
> 
> 
> 
> IF YOU GOT THIS FAR---------- YOU HAVE COMPLETED THE FIX!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> You can test the fix after the epoxy dries along with the hot glue or caulking or whatever you select to use.
> 
> Assemble the saw so you can pull the starter rope....remove the spark plug from the engine, clip a grounding wire to it and pull the starting rope. If things go well, you should have a nice blue spark!
> 
> Will try to answer any questions-- Good luck, you can do it! Its not brain surgery!
> 
> Foggy[/QUOTE
> Do you actually cut through the PC run?


----------



## thebarber

Yep


----------



## ImQuattro

I just read through all 33 pages (657 posts). REALLY was hoping someone found the fix for the SEM modules. 
Did I miss that post somewhere?


----------



## mgr

ImQuattro said:


> I just read through all 33 pages (657 posts). REALLY was hoping someone found the fix for the SEM modules.
> Did I miss that post somewhere?



There is no fix for the SEM coils.


----------



## ImQuattro

Well low and behold! I baked my SEM coil at 250F for an hour and i have SPARK! Seems to take some rpm's to get it but it's definitely there fat and blue!
How long it will last remains to be seen.


----------



## Yotaismygame

ImQuattro said:


> Well low and behold! I baked my SEM coil at 250F for an hour and i have SPARK!



Never heard of such a thing, explain please.


----------



## ImQuattro

Well, many times in the lawnmower business I've baked coils and brought them back to life. Either moisture shorts them out internally (which you bake out) or theres a solder connection that opens (could be due to vibration or heat) and baking them many times brings them back.
Fingers crossed and already pursuing a back up SEM module just in case...


----------



## grizz55chev

PogoInTheWoods said:


> Bear in mind that the force of the flywheel nut against the flywheel on the tapered crankshaft is where the strength of the entire attachment is derived. The key is primarily for timing alignment and only a marginal safety feature for the crankshaft in the event it somehow experiences excessive rotational torque. It has nothing to do with how tight the flywheel is. That said, and if the flywheel and crank keyways aren't hogged out, you can obviously just replace the key and probably be fine. In the meantime you could also carefully scribe a line on both the end of the crankshaft and face of the flywheel which correspond to the center of the keyways. Line them up and reinstall the flywheel to see if it still runs close to normal again.


I know this post is a couple of months old but I’ll share a recent experience anyway. My 064 Stihl was running rough and spitting back through the carb. Went through the usual things, checked the piston, good, rebuilt the carb, replaced fuel lines and filter, checked the spark screen, checked coil gap, all good, still spit through the carb and ran rough! After some thought and reading, I pulled the flywheel, lol and behold, the flywheel had slipped, deforming the key! I didn’t have a spare at the time , but I remember reading about using toothpaste as a kind of loctite on the shaft. After carefully marking the slot on the flywheel with a sharpie then tapping out the damaged key, I re installed the flywheel with a dab of toothpaste around the shaft, I lined up the mark with the slot as best I could. I gave the flywheel a solid tap using a socket to fit over the shaft, then let it dry for a few hrs, success! I just used the saw to mill up a ponderosa on my property, 2 solid days work, guess I’ll have to spring for a new key.


----------



## DasKoby

Couldn't find the capacitor on ebay. Does anyone have an extra they are willing to part with, or know where I could pick one up?


----------



## 67L36Driver

Bump

[emoji6]


----------



## steve adamson

HELP ! I just completed a FOGGYSAIL repair and no spark. Beginning trouble shoot. I did one thing different because the head of the pulse transformer screw stripped out on the suggested side of the pulse transformer trying to remove it. I was able to get the other side screw out so I tucked the crimped lug for second capacitor wire under it. Does anyone know if this fix fails if you fasten the second capacitor wire under the screw opposite the side shown in instructions? I am new member and first post since reading and pondering this repair for months and finally dove in.


----------



## 67L36Driver

steve adamson said:


> HELP ! I just completed a FOGGYSAIL repair and no spark. Beginning trouble shoot. I did one thing different because the head of the pulse transformer screw stripped out on the suggested side of the pulse transformer trying to remove it. I was able to get the other side screw out so I tucked the crimped lug for second capacitor wire under it. Does anyone know if this fix fails if you fasten the second capacitor wire under the screw opposite the side shown in instructions? I am new member and first post since reading and pondering this repair for months and finally dove in.



Which screw for a ground shouldn’t make a difference.

A Helicoil repair of the stripped hole is in order. That coil getting loose and flopping around could make a big mess. [emoji37]

Check continuity of your wire splices.


----------



## steve adamson

Thanks for the support on the ground location.
Threads fine on the other screw as I could not get that screw out due to messing up the Phillips style head, pretty soft metal there.
Checking continuity will be next plus I think I did a rush job getting the plug wire screwed in. No success getting the wire to bottom out all the way in, I think the wires are jammed up in the there and need to re cut the end.
Out to cut up some maple blow downs then some more shop time, hoping I will be one of those reporting SUCCESS.


----------



## 67L36Driver

Just to confirm:





Is this the Bosch ignition in question or is it the SEM?

I’ve never seen them side to side so I can’t tell the difference.

I have capacitors in the pipeline. and two 056 need spark. [emoji15]


----------



## hotshot

Yes that is the later CDI Bosch, here’s the SEM for the same saw.


----------



## 67L36Driver

These close enuff?
(10) .0056uF 1000V 3.5% Philips MKP 376 AC and Pulse polypropylene capacitors https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/291187520152

Edit: Wrong ! No where near the correct rating of 1uF x 400v.


----------



## steve adamson

Here is the ones I went with and they are still available from good ole USA. Warning, I am the one that has no spark yet but the neighbor says the caps are good.
*5 PCs Film Capacitor 400V 1uF 105 CAP *
ebay item #162042775412 $7.50 for 5


----------



## Cape Fear Saw House

smdaugherty said:


> I applied this fix to my father-in-law's 045AV this weekend. Prior to the fix his saw would run well until it got hot and then had to cool off before she'd run again. It eventually gave up altogether. I found this fix via Google searching and am glad I did! The saw fired right up after installing the new capacitor. I don't have any hours on the fix yet as I'm waiting for the expoxy to cure. I'm feeling very confident about it though.
> 
> Thank you for the repair instructions Foggysail
> 
> I have extra MKP 378 capacitors left over from my order. Forum members: feel free to contact me if you are in need of one.


If you still have those capacitors MKP 378 I would take at least one of them for a saw in need. Thanks


----------



## 67L36Driver

steve adamson said:


> Here is the ones I went with and they are still available from good ole USA. Warning, I am the one that has no spark yet but the neighbor says the caps are good.
> *5 PCs Film Capacitor 400V 1uF 105 CAP *
> ebay item #162042775412 $7.50 for 5



Ordered same. [emoji106]

Thanks bud!


----------



## Cape Fear Saw House

_ just ordered the same caps as above. See link 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-PCs-Film...775412?hash=item25ba808774:g:2JAAAOSw3mpXFWgs
Anyone know if these caps will work for the Foggy Repair?
BTW, Foggy, your awesome and thank you from the bottom of my heart, we need more humans like you around to make this world the way this world should be.
Everyone look up "Qanon" on you tube. You will be blown away. Its happening, a silent war, fight to the death between the white hats (good guys) and black hats (evil luciferians) in our govt.
The great awakening, The storm, Draining the swamp
"where we go one, we go all"_


----------



## 67L36Driver

Have I exposed enuf of the printed circuit?





Dang potting material will cut but not scrape off with an Xacto knife.


----------



## 67L36Driver

Exposed a bit more.





I plan on cutting it on about the red line.




And soldering on my lead on the end marked with yellow.

Correct? Or, did I mis the boat. [emoji848]


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

Foggy Fix #1

Foggy Fix #2


----------



## powerking

update...my 056 Super is still running great after the fix....got quite the workout here in Ct after we had theose Tornado's come thru a few weeks ago


----------



## Kfd518

One more in the books for “the fix”


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

Good to hear. I ordered a couple of those Philips caps from Taiwan myself.

Any luck with yours, Carl?


----------



## Yankee Nimrod

Well I owe you all a big thank you, most of all Foggysail. The fix worked!!! I worked on it Friday night, put the saw back together on Saturday and spent Sunday in the woods running the 056 hard, 3+ tanks of gas on a hot day. The saw has never run more than 15min before the fix. I am working on a video to put on you tube showing the fix and the happy saw. Thanks again!!


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

Cool. What cap did you use?


----------



## 67L36Driver

PogoInTheWoods said:


> Good to hear. I ordered a couple of those Philips caps from Taiwan myself.
> 
> Any luck with yours, Carl?



I’ve been distracted by other projects. [emoji57]

Plus, my small pencil solder iron fell off the pegboard and behind a panel. [emoji90]


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

I'm really curious about how your caps work out. The Philips caps from Taiwan are pricey by comparison but are also a proven solution. Sucks that they're so difficult to come by. Would certainly be cool to find a more commonly available substitute that proves to be as reliable.


----------



## Kfd518

Per the spec they should be equivalent. The heat rating might even be better.

1uf 400v DC /250 AC polypropylene, ac /pulse rated on both of them. Specs are the same


----------



## Yankee Nimrod

so here is a eBay link to the cap used https://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-PHILI...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

Those are the ones I ordered. There were 7 packs three days ago and I ordered two. Looks like someone else snagged one while there were still a couple left.



Kfd518 said:


> Per the spec they should be equivalent. The heat rating might even be better.
> 
> 1uf 400v DC /250 AC polypropylene, ac /pulse rated on both of them. Specs are the same



I wish I would have looked into them more closely and am anxious to see how they work out for folks. Seems to be a decent supply available.


----------



## Yankee Nimrod

foggysail said:


> Many here in the forum may have read my recent posts regarding the Bosch electronic ignition. My 056 pooped the bed or better still make that my lawn while I was in the middle of clearing trees. And yes, problem was no spark. I have also read numerous posts stating that the cause is "coil opening while hot." Well folks, I doubt its either of the magnetic devices in the ignition needed for it to function. My advice....save your money, do not replace the high voltage transformer or the charging inductor. They are the least likely to fail but my saw's component that did fail operated on the border of component death. Just a matter of time before they all fail.
> 
> The problem resides in the potted electronics, that area between the charging inductor and the high voltage transformer. AND THEY CAN BE REPAIRED! NO so called little fix all boxes to take the place of the original ignition, no retiming, just bright blue spark or at least that is what mine now displays in my basement after repair.
> 
> Now here is a gutcha. If somebody will part with a junk ignition which I need for two reasons, I will take pictures of how to make the repair, provide written instructions and explain which part needs to be purchased. I purchased my part on EBay, bought 10 of them, delivered for under $7 bucks.
> 
> The reason I need another ignition is to verify this is the common fault that folks experience with an ignition failure. I think it is but I feel uncomfortable with a repair sample of 1. The next reason is mine is too ripped apart (it functions though) to take pictures for repair instructions. If anybody in the forum has one they want to contribute to the cause, I gladly pay for shipping and handling. This is a chance for every 045/056 with bad ignitions to get their saw running again. Mine now works.... I have not yet started the saw, just got may parts in this afternoon and rushed to install one. Just too anxious to put that off.
> 
> So there you have it. I believe all the failures or at least the greatest number of them are from the same component failure. Too many guys have seen their great 045/056 go belly up with no practical repair. There is hope guys and it is free but I am not going to even attempt to describe how to make the repair until I can do it properly. And you do not need electrical skills although you will need a soldering iron and solder purchased from Radio Shack or some other place that sells electronic stuff. The repair probably take around an hour to complete. You cannot use plumbing solder. So lets see how much interest this thread excites if any.
> 
> Foggy


----------



## Yankee Nimrod

this is my link to a video i just posted documenting my successful Foggysail fix.
.


----------



## raybow1

A big thanks to this thread as I have quite a few bosch ignition modules and just repaired the first based on this thread. Kudos to all who provided this info. Here are a few pics of the repair.


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

Is that the Philips cap that was originally recommended or an alternative that also works?


----------



## raybow1

PogoInTheWoods said:


> Is that the Philips cap that was originally recommended or an alternative that also works?



Yes it is the VISHAY PHILIPS MKT373. Hope that helps.


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

Yes, thank you. I'm just trying to get a feel for any other caps being successfully used for this. There seem to be consistently successful results with originally recommended Philips cap, but not much in the way of positive results with substitute caps.


----------



## wcorey

The correct info for the cap ratings/specs are all there in the first few pages but...

Unfortunately ebay seems to be recycling the auction reference numbers somehow so that old links work but now come up as completely different auctions.
The original link posted by the op (on the first page post #7) now points to a .1uf cap, so those that don't read far enough in may have issues/confusion in that regard.
At least they're only 99 cents, lol...

Would be good if a mod could maybe just delete the link? @pioneerguy600


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

Good info to know and a good suggestion as well.


----------



## Bruce miller

foggysail said:


> Many here in the forum may have read my recent posts regarding the Bosch electronic ignition. My 056 pooped the bed or better still make that my lawn while I was in the middle of clearing trees. And yes, problem was no spark. I have also read numerous posts stating that the cause is "coil opening while hot." Well folks, I doubt its either of the magnetic devices in the ignition needed for it to function. My advice....save your money, do not replace the high voltage transformer or the charging inductor. They are the least likely to fail but my saw's component that did fail operated on the border of component death. Just a matter of time before they all fail.
> 
> The problem resides in the potted electronics, that area between the charging inductor and the high voltage transformer. AND THEY CAN BE REPAIRED! NO so called little fix all boxes to take the place of the original ignition, no retiming, just bright blue spark or at least that is what mine now displays in my basement after repair.
> 
> Now here is a gutcha. If somebody will part with a junk ignition which I need for two reasons, I will take pictures of how to make the repair, provide written instructions and explain which part needs to be purchased. I purchased my part on EBay, bought 10 of them, delivered for under $7 bucks.
> 
> The reason I need another ignition is to verify this is the common fault that folks experience with an ignition failure. I think it is but I feel uncomfortable with a repair sample of 1. The next reason is mine is too ripped apart (it functions though) to take pictures for repair instructions. If anybody in the forum has one they want to contribute to the cause, I gladly pay for shipping and handling. This is a chance for every 045/056 with bad ignitions to get their saw running again. Mine now works.... I have not yet started the saw, just got may parts in this afternoon and rushed to install one. Just too anxious to put that off.
> 
> So there you have it. I believe all the failures or at least the greatest number of them are from the same component failure. Too many guys have seen their great 045/056 go belly up with no practical repair. There is hope guys and it is free but I am not going to even attempt to describe how to make the repair until I can do it properly. And you do not need electrical skills although you will need a soldering iron and solder purchased from Radio Shack or some other place that sells electronic stuff. The repair probably take around an hour to complete. You cannot use plumbing solder. So lets see how much interest this thread excites if any.
> 
> Foggy


----------



## Bruce miller

foggysail said:


> Many here in the forum may have read my recent posts regarding the Bosch electronic ignition. My 056 pooped the bed or better still make that my lawn while I was in the middle of clearing trees. And yes, problem was no spark. I have also read numerous posts stating that the cause is "coil opening while hot." Well folks, I doubt its either of the magnetic devices in the ignition needed for it to function. My advice....save your money, do not replace the high voltage transformer or the charging inductor. They are the least likely to fail but my saw's component that did fail operated on the border of component death. Just a matter of time before they all fail.
> 
> The problem resides in the potted electronics, that area between the charging inductor and the high voltage transformer. AND THEY CAN BE REPAIRED! NO so called little fix all boxes to take the place of the original ignition, no retiming, just bright blue spark or at least that is what mine now displays in my basement after repair.
> 
> Now here is a gutcha. If somebody will part with a junk ignition which I need for two reasons, I will take pictures of how to make the repair, provide written instructions and explain which part needs to be purchased. I purchased my part on EBay, bought 10 of them, delivered for under $7 bucks.
> 
> The reason I need another ignition is to verify this is the common fault that folks experience with an ignition failure. I think it is but I feel uncomfortable with a repair sample of 1. The next reason is mine is too ripped apart (it functions though) to take pictures for repair instructions. If anybody in the forum has one they want to contribute to the cause, I gladly pay for shipping and handling. This is a chance for every 045/056 with bad ignitions to get their saw running again. Mine now works.... I have not yet started the saw, just got may parts in this afternoon and rushed to install one. Just too anxious to put that off.
> 
> So there you have it. I believe all the failures or at least the greatest number of them are from the same component failure. Too many guys have seen their great 045/056 go belly up with no practical repair. There is hope guys and it is free but I am not going to even attempt to describe how to make the repair until I can do it properly. And you do not need electrical skills although you will need a soldering iron and solder purchased from Radio Shack or some other place that sells electronic stuff. The repair probably take around an hour to complete. You cannot use plumbing solder. So lets see how much interest this thread excites if any.
> 
> Foggy


----------



## Bruce miller

I just bought a 056 av super.. with no spark.. pull the ignition pack out... where do I find these capacitors in this.. do I cut it open? Or do I have to just buy a new one? Any help would be grateful.


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

You'll need to read just a _little_ more than the first post to get anything out of this thread. Page 3 is where the pics begin and there's also some at the top of this page. 'Course none of it will matter unless your saw has the Bosch ignition setup.

On the other hand, you may just have a short in the kill wire which is common with these saws regardless of the ignition module.


----------



## George Hurchalla

Had started this project when I still had my 045 Super down in southern Mexico but only gotten so far as buying the capacitor, disassembling the flywheel and pulling the ignition off. I bought the saw about 6 years ago and the saw always gave up after it heated up and wouldn't start again. I did a piston replacement, bearings, seals, and all manner of things on it before figuring out the ignition was definitely the problem. I bought an 056 Super head for $200 that I thought would be my parts saw but actually worked fine so I took to running it instead and put off the fix on the 045. The spark had gotten so erratic it would rarely even start anymore. Then my milling buddy got a new 660 because they were so ridiculously cheap in Mexico when the peso was at rock bottom, and both the old saws collected dust. A friend coming up from Oaxaca on his way to Canada brought my two old saws with him a couple weeks ago, and I started back dithering on the ignition fix a couple days ago. Worked on it in earnest today and got the cap soldered to the wires and fixed in place. Spun the flywheel with a drill and plugged in my spark tester and saw it had spark. Put everything back on and tried starting it with some years old gas still in the tank and low and behold it fired up. Still shaking my head in disbelief. Knew the fix had worked for many others, but somehow never expected it to work for me. Funny, I had stopped work to order a service manual a couple days ago because I couldn't figure out where some hidden screws were to get the casing off so I could remove the kill switch, but figured it out and got it working before the manual arrived yet.


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

Great story. Some old school material for the 1115 series that may come in handy for you down the road...

https://drive.google.com/drive/fold...pGZVV1OFNYdGptSVJhUmNVWkJ0SWlkYTg?usp=sharing


----------



## POC

I did this fix and it worked on my great granddad's 056 Electronic. Thanks so much for figuring this out and posting it. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk


----------



## George Hurchalla

PogoInTheWoods said:


> Great story. Some old school material for the 1115 series that may come in handy for you down the road...
> 
> https://drive.google.com/drive/fold...pGZVV1OFNYdGptSVJhUmNVWkJ0SWlkYTg?usp=sharing



Thanks for the download links. I always got those parts manuals off the French site https://www.motoculture-jean.fr/upload/pdf/045.pdf but it's good to have some copies downloaded so I don't have to try to remember what arcane site I got them from. I should just download their perfect digital scans but have never gotten around to it. Huge Pogo fan by the way, grew up on Pogo courtesy of my mom who kept all the original comic collections from her youth. I rarely find anyone of my generation (51) familiar with Pogo, and most people younger have never even heard of Pogo. Just stumbled across an edition of Life Magazine from 1953 while doing a search for something else that had one of my favorite strips in it, with Albert as Meat Hamburg, private eye, and Churchy as Tundra Plunder, plucky girl chicken plucker. Anytime someone mentions something about getting crafty, I'm reminded of Albert's line from it "I'm getting crafty, kid" and Tundra replying "It's too late to bring in Crafty Kid".


----------



## dom1971

I have a 056 Super missing the entire kill switch and it has no spark


----------



## George Hurchalla

dom1971 said:


> I have a 056 Super missing the entire kill switch and it has no spark


It's fairly common for people to have gotten rid of the kill switch due to it shorting, and using the choke to shut down the 045 and 056's. I didn't bother putting in a new switch when I did my ignition fix, I clipped the wire at the ignition and pulled the old switch and wire out. Are you interested in attempting the ignition fix? (I think it's page 3 of this thread). As long as you have basic soldering skills, it's a pretty simple procedure. The biggest trick to the whole thing is running the wires so they remain out of the way of the fan wheel. It's nearly impossible to feed the wires through the hole in the casing the sparkplug lead goes through to the ignition as things are, but like others have mentioned, if you pry out the rubber grommet in that hole, then the new wires feed through easily.


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

dom1971 said:


> I have a 056 Super missing the entire kill switch and it has no spark



If the switch is gone but the kill wire is still flopping around in there somewhere you could have a dead short to ground causing the no spark condition.


----------



## dom1971

Hi

I’m very new . Have 056 super that did not come with a kill switch

Not getting a spark. Where do I start


----------



## dom1971

PogoInTheWoods said:


> If the switch is gone but the kill wire is still flopping around in there somewhere you could have a dead short to ground causing the no spark condition.


thanks for your reply, I posted some pics, can you point me to what I should be looking at ? I am sooo close, this saw has 175psi of compression and very tight


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

Tape off that black wire (or cut it back a little more) to ensure it wasn't shorted to the case -- effectively killing the ignition circuit. Don't cut it back too far as you will need to splice an extension to it if you want to use the switch when it's all said and done. It's the kill wire that would normally go to the switch. Either put it back together and check for spark or just put the flywheel back on it and use a drill and socket to spin it over to check for spark. (The drill will need to be run in reverse to spin the flywheel in the correct direction. If still no spark, go back to page three and carefully review the fix in step-by-step detail. Then start searching for the correct capacitor. The good news is, you already have the Bosch ignition setup instead of the SEM (which is not fixable).


----------



## George Hurchalla

Second what Pogo said, I was going to mention that but assumed the switch AND wire had been removed which may well not be the case. Pogo, I may be wrong, but I think that black wire he shows is merely a ground connecting the main frame to the gas tank and not the old kill switch wire. Go ahead and undo the two screws holding the ignition to the frame and pull the ignition up off the shaft so that you can pull the black kill switch wire (which I believe you have your finger pointing to on the ignition) out from wherever it is lying around cut off and tape it off. If it does inexplicably run to that short jumper wire, remove it from the frame and tape/cap it. Then check for spark per Pogo's instructions. I have a spare capacitor I can mail you if the right one is hard to find on Ebay these days.


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

George Hurchalla said:


> Pogo, I may be wrong, but I think that black wire he shows is merely a ground connecting the main frame to the gas tank and not the old kill switch wire.



Actually, I believe you are correct on that. My bad.


----------



## MattLinq

Bump

Wondering if anyone has any dead 045 or 056 bosch modules that they wouldn't mind selling to someone who wants to learn on a few.

-Matt


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

@DefinitiveDave may have a couple.


----------



## Duke7000

Hi, stumbled across this site after buying a really clean 056 super. It was a non runner but i took a chance and bought it anyway. Now after reading about this fix I’m happy to say the saw is now a runner!! Gave it a hard days work today and it never missed a beat. Another great old saw lives on here in Northern Ireland.
Special thanks to foggysail


----------



## Trashman219

Just performed this fix on my saw,followed the instructions and it was a fairly easy fix,only word of caution is to not use too high wattage soldering gun,the bar started to melt away on mine so i had to go buy a lower wattage iron.


----------



## mdionne

Bosch 1107-400-510 for 08, 082, TS350

Can anyone tell me if this Bosch ignition and flywheel will fit on a Stihl 056 av. It has the SEM module and FW now.


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## PogoInTheWoods

You're missing a number -- 1107-400-510?. And what is it from? There will be different numbers for all the ignition components.


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

There is an 08 magneto with a 110_8_-400-0510 part number, but It doesn't look like there is compatibility among any of the related components. There is an 1108-400-0800 ignition module for the 056 that shows compatibility with the 08, etc., but that would be the SEM you probably already have.
From what I've come up with, I'd say the answer to your original question is no. You'll need 30, 32, and 33 listed below to convert..., and possibly a starter modification for the recoil to be compatible as well.

​


----------



## nolids

What's wrong with using a Nova ignition module and Bosch flywheel? It worked on my Sachs Dolmar 133 that had a non-replaceable SEM GE module. From the pictures I am seeing you already have the right coil to work with the Nova.


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

???

Nova 'ignition module' replacing a SEM module?

What pictures are you referring to?


----------



## nolids

PogoInTheWoods said:


> ???
> 
> Nova 'ignition module' replacing a SEM module?
> 
> What pictures are you referring to?



I was referring you to the pictures on this thread. My reference to the SEM module was in regard to my Sachs Dolmar 133. The old Stihls and Sachs Dolmar used similar electronics. See this thread where I start in a little ways down:
https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/stihl-056-bosch-ignition.153271/page-5


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

I'm familiar with the same ignitions being used on some of the Sachs-Dolmars. Just not quite following the reference to a Nova ignition module to replace the SEM in combination with a Bosch flywheel. I'm even more confused now after reading in your link that you're using a Saegenspezi electronic ignition module as a Bosch replacement _and _ an external Nova chip. Didn't realize the Saegenspezi module required an external trigger?


----------



## nolids

PogoInTheWoods said:


> I'm familiar with the same ignitions being used on some of the Sachs-Dolmars. Just not quite following the reference to a Nova ignition module to replace the SEM in combination with a Bosch flywheel. I'm even more confused now after reading in your link that you're using a Saegenspezi electronic ignition module as a Bosch replacement _and _ an external Nova chip. Didn't realize the Saegenspezi module required an external trigger?



I've had other people read the information I posted and they have no trouble following exactly what I did. To help you out, I found a fault in the location of the Saegenspezi electronic ignition module (which is the equivalent of the Nova module) and mounted it externally be cause it would fail under the flywheel from heat.

What I am introducing in this thread is that you don't have to go to all the trouble of screwing around with the old module to make it work when a Nova module will take it's place as long as you use a Bosch flywheel and coil. If it's a SEM setup, junk it.

I hope this helps, I don't want to write a book with one typing finger on my dumb phone.


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

nolids said:


> I found a fault in the location of the Saegenspezi electronic ignition module...



Gotcha. Didn't read that far in the link you provided.

But fwiw..., 

The fix originally described here requires no timing compensation and is a simple modification of a bad Bosch module requiring only the correct capacitor wired into the module and mounted externally. No trouble at all.


----------



## nolids

PogoInTheWoods said:


> Gotcha. Didn't read that far in the link you provided.
> 
> But fwiw...,
> 
> The fix originally described here requires no timing compensation and is a simple modification of a bad Bosch module requiring only the correct capacitor wired into the module and mounted externally. No trouble at all.



The "fix" this thread started with was admittedly beyond my current electrical skills. So I introduced an alternative that would not have worked with the trigger of the original module that you speak of (which seems to be a SEM GA or Bosch?)


PogoInTheWoods said:


> Gotcha. Didn't read that far in the link you provided.
> 
> But fwiw...,
> 
> The fix originally described here requires no timing compensation and is a simple modification of a bad Bosch module requiring only the correct capacitor wired into the module and mounted externally. No trouble at all.



Okay. The SEM GE is both a module and coil charger. No independent coil charging from the coil fins reacting to the magnets.


----------



## mdionne

PogoInTheWoods said:


> You're missing a number -- 1107-400-510?. And what is it from? There will be different numbers for all the ignition components.


This was listed on eBay as it appears in my post. I have an 056 ave with the SEM module. I am looking for a replacement that will work. Thanks for the help!


----------



## hotshot

mdionne said:


> This was listed on eBay as it appears in my post. I have an 056 ave with the SEM module. I am looking for a replacement that will work. Thanks for the help!



No, that one won’t fit the crank snout. Also the plug wire exits the coil in the back, and you need a side exit coil.

Keep looking for a good used late style SEM GA module, they do occasionally appear on fleabay, selling for less than $50.

Or you could go the route of Nolids & spend $150 plus for a Saegenspezi CDI stator, a replacement Taiwan made Nova trigger when it burns out it’s original Taiwan made trigger the next month, plus an OEM Bosch electronic FW to replace your original SEM FW, lol! It’s only money...


----------



## nolids

hotshot said:


> No, that one won’t fit the crank snout. Also the plug wire exits the coil in the back, and you need a side exit coil.
> 
> Keep looking for a good used late style SEM GA module, they do occasionally appear on fleabay, selling for less than $50.
> 
> Or you could go the route of Nolids & spend $150 plus for a Saegenspezi CDI stator, a replacement Taiwan made Nova trigger when it burns out it’s original Taiwan made trigger the next month, plus an OEM Bosch electronic FW to replace your original SEM FW, lol! It’s only money...



https://www.ebay.com/itm/Elektronis...56-AV-045AV-056AV-ignition-coil-/200547461574


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

hotshot said:


> Or you could go the route of Nolids & spend $150 plus for a Saegenspezi CDI stator, a replacement Taiwan made Nova trigger when it burns out it’s original Taiwan made trigger the next month, plus an OEM Bosch electronic FW to replace your original SEM FW



Then there's the part about re-drilling and re-tapping the mounting plate for the Saegenspezi module along with re-positioning the flywheel for correct timing...

FWIW, I've read elsewhere that there are two different Saegenspezi modules. One is a completely integrated electronic module that works with a Bosch electronic ignition flywheel and the other a basic stator plate module requiring an external trigger for use with Bosch points flywheels. Maybe the correct combination wouldn't require any drilling or flywheel adjustment?

Regardless..., and as you conveyed...,

Both would certainly require more time, effort, parts, and money to affect a solution than what has clearly been established here as a simple, economical, and proven fix for bad Bosch electronic ignitions..., which after all is what this thread specifically addresses.

There are 30 other threads which discuss alternative options.


----------



## nolids

If it's such a simple fix to find the correct capacitor and install it why are there 36 pages on this thread? I originally suggested using a Nova module in place of repairing the old module. Under $15 with no other work other than mounting the Nova in the carburetor compartment. The rest of the gibberish on this thread is me explaining what I had to do with my Sachs Dolmar 133. Whatever.


----------



## mdionne

hotshot said:


> No, that one won’t fit the crank snout. Also the plug wire exits the coil in the back, and you need a side exit coil.
> 
> Keep looking for a good used late style SEM GA module, they do occasionally appear on fleabay, selling for less than $50.
> 
> Or you could go the route of Nolids & spend $150 plus for a Saegenspezi CDI stator, a replacement Taiwan made Nova trigger when it burns out it’s original Taiwan made trigger the next month, plus an OEM Bosch electronic FW to replace your original SEM FW, lol! It’s only money...


This has the SEM GE module will the GA module fit it?


----------



## nolids

mdionne said:


> This has the SEM GE module will the GA module fit it?



Does it look like this?


----------



## hotshot

mdionne said:


> This has the SEM GE module will the GA module fit it?



No, you’ll need the SEM GE then, as the early FWs are different than the late single piece GA.

What a cluster Stihl has created with ignition changes in that series...


----------



## mdionne

nolids said:


> View attachment 738201
> Does it look like this?


Yes, just like that.


----------



## nolids

mdionne said:


> Yes, just like that.



Well, this thread is only about fixing a SEM GA, and you definitely have a GE. I see there are used GE's on eBay, but the design is garbage and I wouldn't buy something that is prone to failure. Your flywheel will not work with a GA module, so if I were you I would go with a Bosch ignition and matching flywheel. Either with points or a remote mounted ignition module (like I did). Check Stihl sources and eBay for the parts.


----------



## mdionne

nolids said:


> Well, this thread is only about fixing a SEM GA, and you definitely have a GE. I see there are used GE's on eBay, but the design is garbage and I wouldn't buy something that is prone to failure. Your flywheel will not work with a GA module, so if I were you I would go with a Bosch ignition and matching flywheel. Either with points or a remote mounted ignition module (like I did). Check Stihl sources and eBay for the parts.


Does anybody have a Bosch ignition module with matching FW for a 056 ave?


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## chad cassidy

Is this the right capacitor?


----------



## wcorey

chad cassidy said:


> Is this the right capacitor?



Looks right to me, good deal too.


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

If they're AC / pulse rated polypropylene film they should work. Look just like the Philips version I bought (for what that's worth). 

And yes, a great price with domestic shipping. I'd grab em.


----------



## mdionne

I have a 056 av in need of an ignition system. It has the SEM GE system now. Does anyone here have a Bosch ignition? None on eBay. 

I’d like to convert so I could repair using foggysail fix. I know I will aslo need a Bosch flywheel. Will I also need the fanwheel to match or does the SEM fan wheel fit the Bosch.

Anything else I might need? Any help I can get will be greatly appreciated!!!!!


----------



## nolids

If you go back a few posts you'll see I posted a link for a German SAEGENSPEZI ignition , then all you need is the Bosch flywheel.

Also, I did an eBay search fro a 56av flywheel and came up with 20 hits, but you need the flywheel part number to be make sure it is for a Bosch ignition to work with the above ignition.


----------



## mdionne

nolids said:


> If you go back a few posts you'll see I posted a link for a German SAEGENSPEZI ignition , then all you need is the Bosch flywheel.
> 
> Also, I did an eBay search fro a 56av flywheel and came up with 20 hits, but you need the flywheel part number to be make sure it is for a Bosch ignition to work with the above ignition.



I’ve seen those but not sure if they’ll overheat like the original. It seems that foggysail’s fix does not. That’s why I’d like an original to work with. 

Has anyone used the German Saegenspezi ignition?

Thanks, I’ll look again. Do you know if the SEM fanwheel fits the Bosch flywheel?


----------



## 56napco

Hello all- I'm new to this site but looking to perform this repair on my 056. Having trouble finding just the right capacitor as shown- does anyone have one or two they would part with? Please let me know. Thank you


----------



## Kfd518

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-PHILI...5mm-Film-Capacitor-222237852105-/163348594712


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## 56napco

Kfd518 said:


> https://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-PHILI...5mm-Film-Capacitor-222237852105-/163348594712



Thank you!


----------



## hotshot

mdionne said:


> I’ve seen those but not sure if they’ll overheat like the original. It seems that foggysail’s fix does not. That’s why I’d like an original to work with.
> 
> Has anyone used the German Saegenspezi ignition?
> 
> Thanks, I’ll look again. Do you know if the SEM fanwheel fits the Bosch flywheel?



Only 1 of 3 Bosch module capacitor replacements worked for me, so don’t be dissapointed.

The SEM GA doesn’t have a separate fan, so it won’t work. The old SEM GE used a 2 part fly & fan wheel, so that fan would work.

I bought a Saegenspezi Bosch CD module last year, to see what they were all about, and it totaled $120 after currency conversion.

CONS
The sub-base was over 80mm, and had to be ground on center to fit. The kill wire was too short & had to be spliced. The base is very thick, so you’ll need two longer hold down bolts, or mill the bolt holes further in. The transistor trigger is Taiwan made, so nothing German was on it.

PROS
However, they correctly relocated the coil for proper 26 degree BTDC base timing, and it’s never overheated after a year of use. They’ve sold 3-400 of them, and I still see the short kill wire...I’m not sure about the base dimensions.

I’d never buy another one, due to the high cost, but instead prefer to use a new SEM GA using the Selettra branded module, or convert back to points if the crank snout has a cam lobe.


----------



## George Hurchalla

My first try on the capacitor replacement worked for a decent period of time til I had some piston and cylinder problems this year and had to do an overhaul, and it seemed the ignition got fried in the process. Actually I think the damage was from one of the screws coming loose and getting tangled up and mangling part of it so the capacitor fix wouldn't work anymore. So I finally broke down and got the Saegenspezi and it's worked great so far. Really had no problem with the install, didn't bother with the kill wire and got a big kit of different length m3 m4 m5 hex head screws cheap on Ebay as replacements for various missing case screws on my saw and used ones of those that fit. Was going to rebuild my 056 Super as well but I've stolen so many parts of it so far (including the cylinder for my 045 Super overhaul as they're made of unobtainium) that I think I probably should just leave it be as a parts saw for the 045. I think it likely needed a capacitor fix as well. But maybe when I have absolutely nothing better to do at some point I'll try to get the parts I need to put it back together as well. Just hate leaving anything unfixed that can be fixed.


----------



## Scrapcan

setting a watch for this thread.


----------



## 56napco

So, low and behold my saw has the SEM type GE ignition. I've read the SEM GA ignition from a TS350 saw will work. Based on others comments the GE flywheel won't work with the GA ignition however. Seems converting to Bosch or the aftermarket module maybe the only option. In the off chance I can locate a SEM GA style flywheel and ignition module- will my current recoil work with a GA flywheel?
Thanks


----------



## hotshot

That’s the worst of all four ignitions, no good replacements for the GE...

If you do go all SEM GA, you’ll just need the longer plastic starter pawl.

Search for my old post “starter experiment” and you can convert the 056 to two balanced dual pawls at the same time you swap the pawls, like the later 066.

Your rotor needs to be the latest dual pocket type, but I bet it is already. Post some pics of your current setup; inside starter, FW, ignition, etc.

There’s GA FWs, pawls, springs on Fleabay right now, but as always overpriced. However, you’ll never have to mess with ignition issues again, lol.

PS - I see that Saegenspezi have dropped their price on the Bosch CDI, so now that & a used Bosch CDI FW would be your cheapest option out.


----------



## 56napco

I really appreciate all the help! Looks like I'll need the whole package; rotor, flywheel, ignition, pawls, spring. But if switching to a GA ignition means I can start using this saw again for more than 15 minutes at a time then it will be worth it. Its a great saw, not my everyday one but hate cutting up big Oaks with the 011 when I could be using the 056.


----------



## George Hurchalla

56napco said:


> I really appreciate all the help! Looks like I'll need the whole package; rotor, flywheel, ignition, pawls, spring. But if switching to a GA ignition means I can start using this saw again for more than 15 minutes at a time then it will be worth it. Its a great saw, not my everyday one but hate cutting up big Oaks with the 011 when I could be using the 056.


Yeah, mine drove me crazy after I bought it with the "overheat and no restart" issue, was milling giant tropical trees in southern Mexico with it initially. My shop partner finally broke down and bought a new 660 because my saw died so much. But when it worked it was great. Let a chainsaw repair guy down there do numerous "fixes" on it without fixing it, eventually learned about the ignition issue on this forum, but he was unfamiliar with the saw and kept insisting the whole time he didn't think it was the ignition. Put it aside for a few years and then finally tried the capacitor fix and was amazed it worked. They really are great saws when they're working well.


----------



## 56napco

Alright- I got all the SEM GA parts installed, got nice blue spark too but can only get the saw to fire once and thats it. Acts like it wants to go but fires once and then nothing, have to keep pulling it over another 4 or 5 times before it fires off again, then repeat. The plug is wet and the muffler gets wet after pulling it over and over and over. Seems like I've got carb issues now, maybe timing? I've read either line up the timing marks, one on the module and one on the crankcase, or the SEM module doesn't require adjustment. I lined up the marks to begin with but with how much fuel is on the plug makes me lean toward carb now. One thing after another.


----------



## Woodslasher

Check the nylon flapper thingy in the carb. My 361 did that and I noticed that I put the gasket on the carb body first, then the flapper when it was supposed to be the flapper then the gasket. After I fixed that, the coil wire wiggled loose without my knowing which led to a long bout of hair pulling thinking that the carb was the issue.


----------



## 56napco

I'll check it out, never removed the carb on this saw so not sure why its acting up after only replacing the ignition and flywheel.


----------



## 56napco

Gave in and took the saw to the Stihl dealer, who is my neighbor, last week to see if they could figure out why it was flooding so bad. Picked up the saw today- they handed it back and said it had no spark- nothing they could do about it since its old and obsolete. I got it home, pulled the plug, grounded the plug to my shop press with one of my test leads and got spark when I pulled it over. Put it back together and it wouldn't even try to fire. So, I caved and bought a brand new ignition module, 1108 400 0800, online. So now I wait for that to show up and try this again.


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

Double check the insulation on the kill switch wire all the way from the switch to the coil for deterioration or cracks to see if maybe it's shorting to the case somewhere.


----------



## hotshot

56napco said:


> Put it back together and it wouldn't even try to fire. So, I caved and bought a brand new ignition module, 1108 400 0800, online. So now I wait for that to show up and try this again.



Probably should start a new thread of your own, this has nothing to do with the Bosch CDI fix.

I think you wasted your money on a new SEM GA module, those either spark or they’re dead, and the problem is in the carb or with an air leak.


----------



## farmer steve

56napco said:


> Gave in and took the saw to the Stihl dealer, who is my neighbor, last week to see if they could figure out why it was flooding so bad. Picked up the saw today- they handed it back and said it had no spark- nothing they could do about it since its old and obsolete. I got it home, pulled the plug, grounded the plug to my shop press with one of my test leads and got spark when I pulled it over. Put it back together and it wouldn't even try to fire. So, I caved and bought a brand new ignition module, 1108 400 0800, online. So now I wait for that to show up and try this again.


Some stuff in these tech notes you might need. The wires may need cut to length and it gives you specs on doing it.


----------



## nolids

I have some great news about the SEM GE flywheel when converting over to the Saegenspezi ignition-- you can still use the GE flywheel and fan by moving two of the four magnets that are inside the SEM flywheel. I found out by using a magnet polarity tester that the north/south magnets sit together and the ones on the opposite side are non-magnetic and only used for balance.

The magnets are held on by glue and screws, and can be removed by a propane torch. You may have to drill the brass screws out. Then it's just a matter of moving the north or south magnet so they sit 180 degrees apart and either keep using 4 magnets or 2 magnets. Timing to 26 degrees BTDC is a matter of testing using a timing light and 12v battery.


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

hotshot said:


> Probably should start a new thread of your own, this has nothing to do with the Bosch CDI fix.



Ditto.


----------



## xdriver

I am currently working on this fix and will probably have it soldered tonight and ready by the weekend. My questions is if this replacement part would work, or has worked, for other people?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ignition-r...a=0&pg=2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100752.m1982


----------



## nolids

xdriver said:


> I am currently working on this fix and will probably have it soldered tonight and ready by the weekend. My questions is if this replacement part would work, or has worked, for other people?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/ignition-replaces-Bosch-Ducati-for-Stihl-045-056-AV-045AV-056AV-COIL/190590733267?_trkparms=aid=555021&algo=PL.SIMRVI&ao=1&asc=20190711100440&meid=7b9c7d7cfd9b41bc98700218340b8309&pid=100752&rk=4&rkt=16&mehot=pf&sd=333407237271&itm=190590733267&pmt=1&noa=0&pg=2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100752.m1982



I bought one of those and you could make your own if your coil is good. Underneath the shrink wrap is a $13.00 Nova2 ignition module and a two wire crimper. See my previous posts for instructions.


----------



## nolids

I need to make a correction to the post about moving the magnets on a SEM GE flywheel. You can only reposition the south magnet 180 degrees, if you move the north magnet the timing will be 180 degrees off


----------



## Ksbrdmkr

Just completed the pc rewire. Saw works again! Still need to find time the carb a bit with the hotter spark it was idling faster. I bought the german replacement but didn't work to to see if could be made to work. The replacement of the pulse cap seemed easier than retiming or moving magnets on the flywheel. Made a flywheel puller in the process that worked great. Thanks for the fix.


----------



## spdracrm3

nolids said:


> I have some great news about the SEM GE flywheel when converting over to the Saegenspezi ignition-- you can still use the GE flywheel and fan by moving two of the four magnets that are inside the SEM flywheel. I found out by using a magnet polarity tester that the north/south magnets sit together and the ones on the opposite side are non-magnetic and only used for balance.
> 
> The magnets are held on by glue and screws, and can be removed by a propane torch. You may have to drill the brass screws out. Then it's just a matter of moving the north or south magnet so they sit 180 degrees apart and either keep using 4 magnets or 2 magnets. Timing to 26 degrees BTDC is a matter of testing using a timing light and 12v battery.



just joined this site as a search for a fix for my Stihl 041 AVE ignition failure when hot brings up threads here with people are having the same issue . after reading many post and looking at pictures I appear to have a SEM GE style electronic ignition (just like pictured in post 751)which im finding out is the worst available on this saw yea (my coil is good but think the module is bad) . you seem to be narrowing down a solution that involves the nova2 module and moving the magnets on the SEM FW(which is the south magnet?) .in your opinion is the best route at this point to replace this system using the existing flywheel and nova2 module? I found a points style plate with coil but no flywheel on ebay , then convert by using the points coil and install the Nova2 module away from under FW or use the Saegenspezi unit. i just want to get this great saw back working as cheaply as possible 
thanks in advance


----------



## nolids

Great! I'm the one (nolids) who gave the instructions to replace the SEM GE module using the inexpensive NOVA module. When I did mine, I spent an extra $40 getting a Bosch flywheel so I would have north and south magnets 180 degrees apart on a flywheel that would reuse the aluminum fan for the SEM GE pull start. Then I started to look at the original SEM GE flywheel, bought a magnet polarity tester and found out the four magnets were one north, one south, and the opposite side were dead and just there to balance the flywheel. So to save yourself $40 bucks, heat the south magnet with a propane torch and see if you can loosen the south magnet and remove the brass screw that holds it in place along with the glue. If you hold the SEM GE flywheel so you are looking at the back side, the north magnet will be on the left and the south magnet next to it on the right (clockwise). You want to remove the south magnet to retain timing and put it in place of the dummy magnet 180 degrees away. You can do it this way and put the dummy magnet where you took the south magnet off and you will retain balance with 4 magnets. Or remove both dummy magnets and run only a north and south magnet (2 magnets, 180 degrees apart). Use Seal-All and a screw to glue the magnets back on.


----------



## spdracrm3

nolids said:


> Great! I'm the one (nolids) who gave the instructions to replace the SEM GE module using the inexpensive NOVA module. When I did mine, I spent an extra $40 getting a Bosch flywheel so I would have north and south magnets 180 degrees apart on a flywheel that would reuse the aluminum fan for the SEM GE pull start. Then I started to look at the original SEM GE flywheel, bought a magnet polarity tester and found out the four magnets were one north, one south, and the opposite side were dead and just there to balance the flywheel. So to save yourself $40 bucks, heat the south magnet with a propane torch and see if you can loosen the south magnet and remove the brass screw that holds it in place along with the glue. If you hold the SEM GE flywheel so you are looking at the back side, the north magnet will be on the left and the south magnet next to it on the right (clockwise). You want to remove the south magnet to retain timing and put it in place of the dummy magnet 180 degrees away. You can do it this way and put the dummy magnet where you took the south magnet off and you will retain balance with 4 magnets. Or remove both dummy magnets and run only a north and south magnet (2 magnets, 180 degrees apart). Use Seal-All and a screw to glue the magnets back on.


perfect, thank you nolids, i noticed the two dummy magnets and wondered what was going on there . will this work with the coil off the points style plate as I cant use the SEM module plate obviously , I think I found a used 041 plate that will have the coil with wings on it ? (will the coil be in the right place?) are the instructions with the nova2 module easy to figure out or are there some tricks to wiring it up?
sure appreciate your help


----------



## nolids

spdracrm3 said:


> perfect, thank you nolids, i noticed the two dummy magnets and wondered what was going on there . will this work with the coil off the points style plate as I cant use the SEM module plate obviously , I think I found a used 041 plate that will have the coil with wings on it ? (will the coil be in the right place?) are the instructions with the nova2 module easy to figure out or are there some tricks to wiring it up?
> sure appreciate your help



If the 041 backing plate will fit with the coil at 3 o'clock and it's a good coil, you have it made. The NOVA instructions will walk you through the wiring and you should have a negative ground. Just don't mount the NOVA under the flywheel! 

When everything is together, use a timing light and 12v battery to check timing. It should be 26 degrees BTDC, which is 13/16" before TDC using the top of the pull start cover to make the marks. If you need help on this let me know.


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

Wrong thread again.


----------



## nolids

It's kinda late to move. but its good information if you are interested in repairing any and all SEM problem ignition modules using the NOVA module. I'm sure the SEM GE could be taken apart and have the "pulse cap" replaced and it would start working again, but the NOVA module seems easier to me, and the genius (I say this as positive) who started this thread is not willing to try the same trick on other SEM modules.

BTW, just where in this thread is the "pulse cap" repair shown in a picture as the subject of this thread discusses? The NOVA replacement can be done instead of the "pulse cap" and seems easier.


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

nolids said:


> BTW, just where in this thread is the "pulse cap" repair shown in a picture as the subject of this thread discusses?



Page 3. 

And the point is, this is a thread about discovering what the common failure point of certain Bosch ignitions is and how they can be cheaply and easily repaired..., specifically to bring 1115 series saws back to life. 

There are tons of other threads detailing the woes and fixes for other types of ignitions on all types of other saws that are actually quite informative in their own right. Your input here would most likely be much more effective in any number of them.


----------



## transman1924

Milkman31 said:


> Got mine!!!View attachment 347798


----------



## transman1924

Milkman31 said:


> Got mine!!!View attachment 347798


I cannot find a capacitor with your specs. What other capacitor can I use?


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

There are a number of alternatives mentioned throughout this thread, but you'll need to dig to find them. Would be cool if someone would consolidate them into a list.


----------



## 79KW

Greetings guys I have an 056 AV Super electronic that I picked up several years ago on eBay as a parts saw, the saw is exceptionally clean in all aspects and has the full wrap handlebars. I had a guy here that likes to tinker with electronic things attempt to fix the ignition and spliced in a nova setup, it would start and idle but any throttle made it pop and die. I have found this fix and pulled the saw apart to attempt to wire in the capacitor but I see wires cut off at the filling in the center section and I’m not sure it’s saveable, I found a scrap 045 AV today that has the same 2 piece flywheel as mine I was going to tear apart to see if it had the ignition I need. What I’m wondering is there a simpler plug and play setup to fix this either from the TS350 SEM and flywheel which I see both together on eBay or the German sourced ignition that looks different and states to only change from points style to electronic

link: https://shop.saegenspezi.de/electro...er-ignition-fits-Stihl-045-056-AV-045AV-056AV


----------



## hotshot

Go to the website you posted above, select the Stihl 045/056 parts, & then scroll down to the bottom & look for the replacement Bosch/Ducati ignition

Item no.: *13705AR1951*
That one is supposed to work with your flywheel pictured in your post.


----------



## 79KW

hotshot said:


> Go to the website you posted above, select the Stihl 045/056 parts, & then scroll down to the bottom & look for the replacement Bosch/Ducati ignition
> 
> Item no.: *13705AR1951*
> That one is supposed to work with your flywheel pictured in your post.


 Thanks it won’t let me order one and says no shipping due to COVID-19 so I guess I’ll wait till this is over and hopefully can order one then


----------



## Dolmar88

Hey guys 
I did the fix as well, and i think I have the right capacitor. 
But it workt for about 1,5 sec and then i stopt so I tried the other capacitor i have, also nothing! 
Does somebody have a idee about this? 
Thanks greetings Fabian


----------



## Dolmar88

Maybe this picture works


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

79KW said:


> I see wires cut off at the filling in the center section and I’m not sure it’s saveable,


Some patient potting removal and careful soldering could salvage that.



Dolmar88 said:


> I did the fix as well, and i think I have the right capacitor.


You need a capacitor within a limited range of specs. They aren't a common capacitor. Several variants that have proven to work have been posted including the ones in the pic below. Someone posted a good link several months ago from a source in Taiwan with a limited quantity of the Philips chips. I ordered a couple and received them in six days. The rest were gone within a couple of days once the availability became known.

​


----------



## Dolmar88

PogoInTheWoods said:


> Some patient potting removal and careful soldering could salvage that.
> 
> 
> You need a capacitor within a limited range of specs. They aren't a common capacitor. Several variants that have proven to work have been posted including the ones in the pic below. Someone posted a good link several months ago from a source in Taiwan with a limited quantity of the Philips chips. I ordered a couple and received them in six days. The rest were gone within a couple of days once the availability became known.
> 
> View attachment 838837​


Thanks for the information but witch one did you order? Because I used that same picture to find the right ones I thought. So now I don’t know anymore haha. 
Thanks I hope you can help me.


----------



## Dolmar88

This one I ordered


----------



## Dolmar88

And yesterday I found this ones


----------



## Dolmar88

I don’t get it because I have a nice blue spark but it doesn’t work. Now I ordered the ones foggysail sees the are good so I hope it will work than greetings


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

I will need to check the capacitors I ordered for their specifications. 

Perhaps you should double check your timing?


----------



## Dolmar88

PogoInTheWoods said:


> I will need to check the capacitors I ordered for their specifications.
> 
> Perhaps you should double check your timing?


I played with the timing but stayed the same so I think it’s not the good capacitor


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

The values of the capacitors pictured should be adhered to for the desired results.


----------



## Dolmar88

PogoInTheWoods said:


> The values of the capacitors pictured should be adhered to for the desired results.


Oke so there the good ones? But way doesn’t the saw stay running? Yesterday I started it again and than played with the throttle than it runs for a little bit more but than fals dead again and can’t start it again! 
So I have no idea anymore haha 
I hope you van help me
Thanks for the help anyway


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

Carb adjustments maybe? Try it again. If it starts and attempts to run but dies, check for spark. If there's still good spark and the timing is close, I'd say you're looking at a fuel delivery problem..., provided you also have good compression and aren't overlooking a scored piston/cylinder or something else inhibiting combustion -- like a massive air leak.


----------



## Dolmar88

Yeah I will try that with the carb,
Al the other stuff is still good.
Compression on 150ps 
Piston is like new,
So I hope there’s something with the feul. 
I will check idt out en let you know


----------



## Dolmar88

I tried adjusting of the ignition and checked if there was nice blue spark.

I have old the time nice blue spark, and the plug is wet al the time. 
Its runs today 1sec and after that nothing anymore.
I think I will wait on the new capacitor, because I don’t know anymore.


----------



## FSE_Dolmar

Foggy....would these work?? Please let me know.








Run Capacitor 450V AC 1 uF Metallized Polypropylene Film Capacitors | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Run Capacitor 450V AC 1 uF Metallized Polypropylene Film Capacitors at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



www.ebay.com


----------



## saggman54

foggysail said:


> Has anybody tried the "FIX"?


hoping to try it soon... my saw been sitting a long time... but I'm retired now..
just need to go through and find the specs for the capacitor.
also (not sure where to post this) but if anyone needs a cheap little flywheel puller these things works great..
https://www.treatland.tv/puch-bosch-flywheel-puller-p/puch-bosch-flywheel-puller.htm (fits two internal thread sizes) 26mm x 1.5mm on one side and 22mm x 1.5mm on the other
they also make a 19mm one


----------



## FSE_Dolmar

I was able to complete this capacitor replacement on a Dolmar 123. Everything including the timing advance works. Thanks for the time to figure this repair out....I have several Echo CDI units that need looking into!!! Plus, I have about 20 of these Bosch units that I'm going to try and save!!!


----------



## nenicu

Hello from Romania. Just completed the first test of this fix on a Dolmar 120. Nice blue spark rotating the saw with the drill. I have to asemble the saw and see if it runs. Thanks Foggy!!! Thanks a lot. I'm now a little smarter.


----------



## 9050lx

Should be able to find 1 microfarad 400volt caps all over ebay. For tube electronics I've had much success with the Russian NOS caps.


----------



## nenicu

Russian Ural chainsaw elecrtonic ignition.


----------



## nenicu

nenicu said:


> Russian Ural chainsaw elecrtonic ignition.


----------



## Vintage Engine Repairs

Hi guys, I have read a number of comments about people checking the timing with lights and circuit testers etc, but the saw has timing lines.. there is one timing line notched into the ignition module plate and another on the case half. Either I’m missing something or you guys are. Just align the two and you’re good. You guys would have seen them if you cleaned your saws every once in a while


----------



## echomeister

Don't buy from Ebay. Can't tell what you are getting. This cap needs to be high frequency and high temp.
If this fits i would use it.






R76PW410050HLJ KEMET | Capacitors | DigiKey


Order today, ships today. R76PW410050HLJ – Film Capacitor 400V 630V Polypropylene (PP), Metallized Radial from KEMET. Pricing and Availability on millions of electronic components from Digi-Key Electronics.




www.digikey.com


----------



## 9050lx

I have had very good success with the NOS Russian military K series caps, sometimes sitting inches away from 400 degree power tubes. Recent manufacture Sprague/Vishay or Panasonic is prudent.This value of capacitor is ridiculously plentiful.Ebay allows you to buy a small amount without a large shipping cost.


----------



## Vintage Engine Repairs

I was generously gifted a Phillips cap from @scallywag on here. I really wanted to pass it forward and help someone else out. I have been looking high and low for something suitable and be able to send them to you guys that are struggling. Postage shouldn’t be very expensive and the caps are cheap. I finally found these, the only thing is I can’t confirm if they are pulse rated (it’s an online store so can’t call to ask)

@foggysail can you please confirm if this is suitable?



https://au.element14.com/illinois-capacitor/105mpr400k/capacitor-polypropylene-pp-film/dp/1666089



If so and anyone is really struggling for a cap, let me know, I’ll get a final price and send them out to you all. It may be better for me to send a bunch to one person to the USA to keep the postage costs down, then that person can then send them out individually?

Whatever is best for you guys.


----------



## Vintage Engine Repairs

Thanks @foggysail I completed the fix, it’s all still apart, but I used the drill to spin the flywheel and after a few seconds I got a lovely bright blue spark. The only thing I couldn’t do was get all 4 wires back through the grommet, instead I wrapped 3 layers of insulating tape around the wires popped them through.

@scallywag thank you for the capacitor mate, without your generosity in offering I wouldn’t have been able to complete the fix.


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

Nicely done!


----------



## Vintage Engine Repairs

Gentleman, I think i have found a supply of 477 capacitors! Wooooo @foggy, please have a quick look to confirm these will work, let me know and I will buy a batch. Then if anyone needs them I can send them out. 

*


https://au.element14.com/kemet/r75mr41004040j/cap-1-f-400v-5-pp-radial/dp/2456384?st=pulse%201uf%20400v%20mkp%20capacitors%20uk


*


----------



## Vintage Engine Repairs

Little update, I ran the saw for the first time after the capacitor fix, before it ran for a few cuts and died. Today after the fix I did 30 cuts and it didn’t stop once. It was running for about an hour and got nice and hot. I call that a success  yay thanks foggy!


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

Gaudaost said:


> @foggy, please have a quick look to confirm these will work...,



I don't believe he monitors this thread any longer. It's been quite some time since he's posted here or responded to anyone. I'd say he probably figured his original contribution to the cause pretty much covered everything necessary and his effort had concluded after so many folks posted about their own success using his method and his recommended capacitor type and values.

It's great that those caps in your link work and is nice of you to share your resources and experience with using them.


----------



## Vintage Engine Repairs

PogoInTheWoods said:


> I don't believe he monitors this thread any longer. It's been quite some time since he's posted here or responded to anyone. I'd say he probably figured his original contribution to the cause pretty much covered everything necessary and his effort had concluded after so many folks posted about their own success using his method and his recommended capacitor type and values.
> 
> It's great that those caps in your link work and is nice of you to share your resources and experience with using them.


Yes it’s totally understandable, the fix I did was with the blue philips caps not
The ones I linked to, I didn’t want to risk all that work without putting it past foggy. If I come accross another saw I’ll try the caps I linked to but wont pot it or glue it to the plastic shroud, instead just cable
Tie it and then I can easily remove it if necessary.


----------



## Seadiver5

I finally found this thread after owning my 056 for over 30 years it's developed what I believe is this problem. While I haven't read all the posts on this thread I'm wondering if there is anyone out there that has done this fix and had their saw working reliably for several years now? Before diving in to repair my saw I just want to know that the repair is pretty dependable for the long run. 
Thanks


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

Seadiver5 said:


> I'm wondering if there is anyone out there that has done this fix and had their saw working reliably for several years now?


This thread is over 6 years old with very few instances of failures being reported. I'd say the majority of folks who performed the fix according to the instructions and used the correct (or compatible) capacitor still have reliably performing ignitions.


----------



## Seadiver5

PogoInTheWoods said:


> This thread is over 6 years old with very few instances of failures being reported. I'd say the majority folks who performed the fix according to the instructions and used the correct (or compatible) capacitor still have reliably performing ignitions.


Thanks for the response. All the failures that I read seemed to be immediate failures to the repair and my question was more related to the long term and preferably consistent use of the saw. I'm assuming as you have that the fix continues to work but I would just like to hear from some people that actually have made the repair that the fix did in fact continue to work correctly for the long haul. Thanks again.


----------



## Vintage Engine Repairs

Chaps, does the 045av capacitor in the ignition module have the same issues as the 056?


----------



## Woodslasher

I saw the 045 you’re working on Tom, you’ll be lucky if that isn’t a points setup. No, I don’t think any of the other coil types were prone to failure


----------



## Vintage Engine Repairs

Woodslasher said:


> I saw the 045 you’re working on Tom, you’ll be lucky if that isn’t a points setup. No, I don’t think any of the other coil types were prone to failure


Thanks mate excellent stuff, I hope so, but wasn’t certain and thanks for the reply on my other post!


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

An 045AV does indeed have a points ignition -- most likely Bosch. The saw in question from the other thread will definitely have points unless converted..., which appears highly unlikely. The 045 Bosch ignitions are completely serviceable (and desirable) with both NOS (some, anyway) and aftermarket components readily available. The exception would be flywheels which seem to be getting harder and harder to come by as folks convert back to points from the notoriously failure prone SEM electronic module. The SEM electronic module does not have an accessible internal capacitor like the Bosch electronic module, btw,


----------



## BackhoeBill

My stop switch wire was so bad it was corroded and falling apart. I unsoldered it from wherever it was attached. Can I solder a new wire to the black wired leg of the exciter coil? I circled where I think the connection is.


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

It's certainly the correct location for the kill wire entry point to the circuit. If that's indeed a solder lug you have circled, I'd say you're in the right place. You could do some metering to further determine if a switched short to ground of the ignition circuit would be established from that point..., perhaps directly to the adjacent lug. My guess would be yes. Please post your results. Aside from the capacitor issue with these ignitions, the kill wire problem is a close second in their premature death. Knowing where to attach a new one (with better insulation) at the circuit itself would be another valuable solution to giving these ignitions new life.

One of these days I'll repair this one to revive a nice old 056 I got cheap with a bad SEM ignition. Found this Bosch coil and accompanying flywheel locally..., shortly after finding this thread. Seems like something else has been in the way of getting to it ever since. Last project was rebuilding an 045, so I'm at least getting closer!

​


----------



## BackhoeBill

PogoInTheWoods said:


> It's certainly the correct location for the kill wire entry point to the circuit. If that's indeed a solder lug you have circled, I'd say you're in the right place. You could do some metering to further determine if a switched short to ground of the ignition circuit would be established from that point..., perhaps directly to the adjacent lug. My guess would be yes. Please post your results. Aside from the capacitor issue with these ignitions, the kill wire problem is a close second in their premature death. Knowing where to attach a new one (with better insulation) at the circuit itself would be another valuable solution to giving these ignitions new life.
> 
> One of these days I'll repair this one to revive a nice old 056 I got cheap with a bad SEM ignition. Found this Bosch coil and accompanying flywheel locally..., shortly after finding this thread. Seems like something else has been in the way of getting to it ever since. Last project was rebuilding an 045, so I'm at least getting closer!
> 
> View attachment 880830​


It worked! That is definitely the right location, works great. 

With the new capacitor the spark was so strong the spark plug wire insulation failed and sent 1/2" long sparks from the wire to the cylinder head. I knew I shoulda replaced that thing when I had everything apart. Now I get to take it all apart again.


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

I hope you don't burn a hole in your piston with all that spark. LOL 

Out of curiosity, what capacitor did you use?


----------



## BackhoeBill

PogoInTheWoods said:


> I hope you don't burn a hole in your piston with all that spark. LOL
> 
> Out of curiosity, what capacitor did you use?


It was the one from Mouser Electronics, I am having trouble logging back into my account to find the part number but it was mentioned in this thread a few times. I couldn't find any on Ebay.


----------



## Deleted member 177440

Seadiver5 said:


> I finally found this thread after owning my 056 for over 30 years it's developed what I believe is this problem. While I haven't read all the posts on this thread I'm wondering if there is anyone out there that has done this fix and had their saw working reliably for several years now? Before diving in to repair my saw I just want to know that the repair is pretty dependable for the long run.
> Thanks


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

Welcome aboard. This thread will be 7 years old in April with very few failure reports.


----------



## Deleted member 177440

I recently acquired an 056 super it would run for a few minutes, and then would loose spark once the saw got warm. After reading foggy's thread, and some testing... I decided i would attempt a fix. i did not want to mount an external cap. Being an electronic technician by trade, and dealing with this sort of thing frequently, I decided to excavate the potting and replace the cap. I shielded the pulse transformers and ther things i didnt want to get hot with some thin metal. Aluminum foil will work in a pinch. I then warmed the potting with a heat gun to soften it. After removing the potting and circuit board i found the capacitor that foggy had mentioned to have a crack in it. Attached are photos. I am planning on replacing the cap with a pulse grade layered film capacitor https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Kemet/C4ATJBW4100A3DJ/?qs=pqRVuuzkf6Yl561bNRN1xQ==
And repotting with a thermally stable high voltage potting. I am currently waiting on my capacitors to finish the repair.


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

Pretty awesome. Thermal protection for the cap is obviously the key. It will be interesting to see how your approach holds up. That's an awful lot of work just to determine if it will. 

Now if you could just figure out how to fix the SEM modules....


----------



## Deleted member 177440

PogoInTheWoods said:


> Pretty awesome. Thermal protection for the cap is obviously the key. It will be interesting to see how your approach holds up. That's an awful lot of work just to determine if it will.
> 
> Now if you could just figure out how to fix the SEM modules....


It is definitely risky, given the amount of work to do this type of repair. I am unfamiliar with an SEM module. Do you have any info so i can research. Curiosity gets the best of me.


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

There are a few pictures of them scattered throughout the thread. The main issue with them is what appears to be impregnable potting containing the circuit. I'm unaware of anyone attempting to dissect one..., at least not on purpose. It's more like dense bakolite than epoxy and would require some delicate micro-surgery to investigate the internal components. I thought I had a couple handy pics, but can't seem to locate them at the moment.


----------



## olyman

glaugh1 said:


> It is definitely risky, given the amount of work to do this type of repair. I am unfamiliar with an SEM module. Do you have any info so i can research. Curiosity gets the best of me.


one thing about it, if you can find a fix,,many will be looking for your expertise...………..


----------



## Deleted member 177440

glaugh1 said:


> Just received my capacitors. It looks like they will not physically fit. Im going to have to research some more to find one that will.


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

I found a pic of the later style SEM module typically used on 056's. Some mighty formidable potting -- if you can call it potting.


​


----------



## scallywag

I've only seen the later GA type SEM ignitions fitted to 056 Magnums, at least that's the case here in Oz.
I tried to open a later SEM but only managed to destroy it, sent the remains of it plus a complete unit to Foggy, don't think he had much success with it either?

Edit] @PogoInTheWoods Looks like we're covering old ground re the GA / GE repair..... https://www.arboristsite.com/commun...ectronic-ignition.256095/page-19#post-5474253


----------



## Deleted member 177440

Looks like a type of potting i have come across before. I never had any success. Extremely hard. The few times i have attempted dissecting something with that hard stuff... I destroyed it.


----------



## starsailor

Has anyone ever reverse engineered the circuit of this module? With the simplicity and super cheap overseas PCB services now it seems not too big a task to create all new ignitions from an understanding of the circuit and a schematic. Remotely locating the cap, like foggy did could even be designed into the circuit.


----------



## kip

Hi everyone I’m new to the forum but I have an 056 Skil saw that I don’t wanna let die so I’m gonna try this a foggy cell repair I just have a real quick dumb question he mounted the second wire to the casing inside cannot not be wired to the casing somewhere else rather than running the wire through the hole I mean I’m assuming it’s just the ground for the other side of the capacitor if anyone can help me I’m sorry for the dumb question just trying to save a little work


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

Your best chance for success is to follow the recommendations already proven to work.


----------



## kip

I did and it was a-lot of work to get the 2 wires thru the hole!
However i will try it both ways and comeback and post results.
Thank you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Vintage Engine Repairs

kip said:


> I did and it was a-lot of work to get the 2 wires thru the hole!
> However i will try it both ways and comeback and post results.
> Thank you.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


From memory; I drilled the hole larger and put in a larger grommet.


----------



## GeorgiaVol

Has anyone figured out a work around for these electronic modules?


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

Only workaround is swap it out for the Bosch ignition (including flywheel) discussed in this thread. There's no "fix" for the SEM modules.


----------



## GeorgiaVol

PogoInTheWoods said:


> Only workaround is swap it out for the Bosch ignition (including flywheel) discussed in this thread. There's no "fix" for the SEM modules.


Thanks. That is what I had to do before, just didn't know if another fix had been found yet.
I have a concrete saw with a bad one.


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

You may want to keep an eye on these folks. They're bringing some interesting solutions to market for the older Stihl equipment. Only problem now is international shipping isn't available from them due to ongoing Covid restrictions. They have a couple items I'd like to get, so I check the status periodically via their email link. They' usually respond within 24hrs.









Cut off saw spare parts


Cutting wheels, Parts for Stihl TSA230, Parts for Stihl TS350, Parts for Stihl TS360, Parts for Stihl TS400, Parts for Stihl TS410, Parts for Stihl TS420, P




shop.saegenspezi.de


----------



## GeorgiaVol

PogoInTheWoods said:


> You may want to keep an eye on these folks. They're bringing some interesting solutions to market for the older Stihl equipment. Only problem now is international shipping isn't available from them due to ongoing Covid restrictions. They have a couple items I'd like to get, so I check the status periodically via their email link. They' usually respond within 24hrs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut off saw spare parts
> 
> 
> Cutting wheels, Parts for Stihl TSA230, Parts for Stihl TS350, Parts for Stihl TS360, Parts for Stihl TS400, Parts for Stihl TS410, Parts for Stihl TS420, P
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shop.saegenspezi.de


This one is a Dolmar.


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

The Bosch setup addressed here may interchange depending on which Dolmar your chop saw is based on. There's compatibility among quite a few larger Dolmars of the era along with several large Huskys. 'Course you may already know that.


----------



## kip

I wired it both ways and was successful!
Also you only need a wire the size of ground wire as capacitor pins are so small!
So in closing one wire from module and second wire can be put to ground on case making this job so much easier.
PS Thank You Foggy sail for you efforts and sharing your success ?
We meed more people like you in our world!
Thanks Kip


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## GeorgiaVol

PogoInTheWoods said:


> The Bosch setup addressed here may interchange depending on which Dolmar your chop saw is based on. There's compatibility among quite a few larger Dolmars of the era along with several large Huskys. 'Course you may already know that.


I will have to look more into it.
Thanks!


----------



## foggysail

PogoInTheWoods said:


> The Bosch setup addressed here may interchange depending on which Dolmar your chop saw is based on. There's compatibility among quite a few larger Dolmars of the era along with several large Huskys. 'Course you may already know that.


Hi Poge! Just paid a rare visit to this thread and nice to read your support for ‘’the fix.’’ Yes… it was 7 years ago when I asked Wifey to hold a tool showing how to make the repair while I took a picture for posting. After posting, had trouble explaining my red fingernail polish to all. Wifey is with me as I type here on my boat tied to my dock at a Coast Guard Auxiliary in Fairhaven MA. 

The discouraging thing IMHO is the saw’s ignition should have had better cqpacitor that would increase the product cost mere pennies over what ultimately was used. The poor capacitor choice faulted an otherwise fine design causing heart aches for many, many people who depended on that tool for their living. I was and remain happy to have helped so many!!! Enjoy!

Foggy


----------



## trains

foggysail said:


> Hi Poge! Just paid a rare visit to this thread and nice to read your support for ‘’the fix.’’ Yes… it was 7 years ago when I asked Wifey to hold a tool showing how to make the repair while I took a picture for posting. After posting, had trouble explaining my red fingernail polish to all. Wifey is with me as I type here on my boat tied to my dock at a Coast Guard Auxiliary in Fairhaven MA.
> 
> The discouraging thing IMHO is the saw’s ignition should have had better cqpacitor that would increase the product cost mere pennies over what ultimately was used. The poor capacitor choice faulted an otherwise fine design causing heart aches for many, many people who depended on that tool for their living. I was and remain happy to have helped so many!!! Enjoy!
> 
> Foggy


Hey Foggy,

Great to see you here again, and Many thanks for your time and effort on the original post and fix, its much appreciated, your time and effort has helped many people get their saws back up and running well again.

We all truly appreciate your time and effort you put into posting the fix.

Thanks again, and enjoy your day.


----------



## PogoInTheWoods

Hi, Foggy.

Nice to hear you're enjoying life. It's good to see you make a long overdue appearance. Lots of 1115 series saws have enjoyed new life because of you.., except my own, ironically enough. LOL

Probably one of the reasons I've kept up with the thread is I get re-energized to pull my 056 project out of the box every time there's a new post.., going on eight years now. One of these days is what I keep telling myself. It's a very nice saw with a bad SEM module. Ran across a Bosch module and flywheel locally a couple years ago and have a couple of the chips you originally specified stashed away. Just replaced my trusty old Weller WP40 last week with a new WP35, so I'm good to go when the moment strikes. I've rebuilt three other 1115's in the process of trying to get to my own. The last was an 045 with the old Bosch points ignition. Now there's spark you can weld with!

Thanks for your time, effort, patience, and contribution of "The Foggy Fix" to chainsaw folk lore and repair history!

Stay well, and kind regards.


----------



## jjdlc

Found an 056 with dead spark, thankfully found this thread. Have capacitors on the way, hopefully they are correct, they aren't Phillips, but as far as I can tell the specs look right. At any rate, the price was worth a shot.









5 PCS Film EVOX Capacitor 400V 1uF 105 CAP (REPLACING FOR 250V 200V 160V 100V ) | eBay


Capacitance: 1 uF. Product: AC and Pulse Film Capacitors. Lead Spacing: 27.94 mm (1.100 in). Tolerance: 5 %.



www.ebay.com


----------



## DavesSmallEngines

PogoInTheWoods said:


> You may want to keep an eye on these folks. They're bringing some interesting solutions to market for the older Stihl equipment. Only problem now is international shipping isn't available from them due to ongoing Covid restrictions. They have a couple items I'd like to get, so I check the status periodically via their email link. They' usually respond within 24hrs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cut off saw spare parts
> 
> 
> Cutting wheels, Parts for Stihl TSA230, Parts for Stihl TS350, Parts for Stihl TS360, Parts for Stihl TS400, Parts for Stihl TS410, Parts for Stihl TS420, P
> 
> 
> 
> 
> shop.saegenspezi.de


Hey there!

I am intrigued by this... do we think this will work?


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## PogoInTheWoods

While some of the TS 350/360 cutoff saw parts interchange with the 045/056, here is an 056 specific link that may be more relevant regarding many other parts. The ignitions have had mixed reactions and aren't necessarily part of the subject matter / discussion here.









Stihl 045 AV 056 AV spare parts


Parts for Stihl 045 056: cylinder gasket fits Stihl 045 056 AV 045AV 056AV - rewind spring 5mm fits Stihl 045 056 AV 045AV 056AV - annular buffer (bottom, l




shop.saegenspezi.de


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## PogoInTheWoods

jjdlc said:


> Found an 056 with dead spark, thankfully found this thread.



Hopefully it has the Bosch ignition!


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## jjdlc

PogoInTheWoods said:


> Hopefully it has the Bosch ignition!


It does, haven’t had time to do the repair yet.


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## bigfoot 123

PogoInTheWoods said:


> Hopefully it has the Bosch ignition!


I HAVE A 045SUPERii THAT IGNITION IS BAD COULD YOU FIX THA FOR ME WILL SEND TO YOU


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## PogoInTheWoods

I'm sure I could, but there could also be a whole other can o' worms besides the ignition in such an arrangement that I'd prefer not to tempt! I just finished a points 045 rebuild for a fellow that became an absolute nightmare and took months to finish simply due to parts being tough to find..., starting with a points crank. LOL 
Plus I have a SEM 056 of my own still needing converted to Bosch for the fix that's been staring at me for a couple o' years. And I'm in Ohio, so shipping would be a little pricey.

Sorry I can't help. Maybe someone closer will chime in who can.


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## Vintage Engine Repairs

PogoInTheWoods said:


> I'm sure I could, but there could also be a whole other can o' worms besides the ignition in such an arrangement that I'd prefer not to tempt! I just finished a points 045 rebuild for a fellow that became an absolute nightmare and took months to finish simply due to parts being tough to find..., starting with a points crank. LOL
> Plus I have a SEM 056 of my own still needing converted to Bosch for the fix that's been staring at me for a couple o' years. And I'm in Ohio, so shipping would be a little pricey.
> 
> Sorry I can't help. Maybe someone closer will chime in who can.


Pogo, you don’t happen to have a NOS 056 super piston?


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## PogoInTheWoods

I'm afraid not. Not even sure the one in my 056 is a good used one! LOL


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## Vintage Engine Repairs

PogoInTheWoods said:


> I'm afraid not. Not even sure the one in my 056 is a good used one! LOL


Haha all good  thanks anyway!


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## aschaumburg

Greetings! Seems there are many success stories about this fix so hoping my $10 garage sale find will be one of them! My 056 super does have the bosch ignition however it seems to have gotten hot and the potting has melted and expanded leaving a sticky black substance all inside the flywheel. I have yet to try and dig the potting out but is this likely to sabotage any potential chances of a fix?


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## aschaumburg

jjdlc said:


> Found an 056 with dead spark, thankfully found this thread. Have capacitors on the way, hopefully they are correct, they aren't Phillips, but as far as I can tell the specs look right. At any rate, the price was worth a shot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5 PCS Film EVOX Capacitor 400V 1uF 105 CAP (REPLACING FOR 250V 200V 160V 100V ) | eBay
> 
> 
> Capacitance: 1 uF. Product: AC and Pulse Film Capacitors. Lead Spacing: 27.94 mm (1.100 in). Tolerance: 5 %.
> 
> 
> 
> www.ebay.com


jjdlc, did these end up working out for you? Needing to order capacitors myself, if it was a success, I might send this guy my business too!

Thanks,
Austin


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## Woodslasher

aschaumburg said:


> Greetings! Seems there are many success stories about this fix so hoping my $10 garage sale find will be one of them! My 056 super does have the bosch ignition however it seems to have gotten hot and the potting has melted and expanded leaving a sticky black substance all inside the flywheel. I have yet to try and dig the potting out but is this likely to sabotage any potential chances of a fix?


I'd see if you can find the saegenspazi replacement coil if your coil is melted.


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## jerrycmorrow

Great thread. Subscribing


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## aschaumburg

Woodslasher said:


> I'd see if you can find the saegenspazi replacement coil if your coil is melted.


I tend to agree but still looks like there is a shipping issue. Has anyone had a successful experience with the saegenspazi replacement and care to share?


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## PogoInTheWoods

Reports have varied regarding the Saegenspezi modules. And with all due respect, this thread is about repairing the Bosch ignitions. Several threads exist which address other approaches to reviving 045/056 ignitions.

But considering your description of what sounds like some excessive heat at the coil/flywheel, and not to sound too discouraging, I'd be concerned about other potential problems with the saw before getting too wrapped up in the ignition just yet.


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## WI-790R

That is cool! I just yesterday, x-rayed a failed doughnut-shaped one from my 076 Super. Plan to try and draw out the board schematic, etc. I have the pics at work and will be back there on 11/30. Will share them here.


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## aschaumburg

PogoInTheWoods said:


> Reports have varied regarding the Saegenspezi modules. And with all due respect, this thread is about repairing the Bosch ignitions. Several threads exist which address other approaches to reviving 045/056 ignitions.
> 
> But considering your description of what sounds like some excessive heat at the coil/flywheel, and not to sound too discouraging, I'd be concerned about other potential problems with the saw before getting too wrapped up in the ignition just yet.


Thanks, I'll dig around for those other links.

It spins over freely, has compression and fuel. Kinda trying to decide if I part it out or put a few bucks into seeing if I can get spark and it to pop.


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## PogoInTheWoods

Any chance you have some pics of the melted module?


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## pjotrxxxx

foggysail said:


> Many here in the forum may have read my recent posts regarding the Bosch electronic ignition. My 056 pooped the bed or better still make that my lawn while I was in the middle of clearing trees. And yes, problem was no spark. I have also read numerous posts stating that the cause is "coil opening while hot." Well folks, I doubt its either of the magnetic devices in the ignition needed for it to function. My advice....save your money, do not replace the high voltage transformer or the charging inductor. They are the least likely to fail but my saw's component that did fail operated on the border of component death. Just a matter of time before they all fail.
> 
> The problem resides in the potted electronics, that area between the charging inductor and the high voltage transformer. AND THEY CAN BE REPAIRED! NO so called little fix all boxes to take the place of the original ignition, no retiming, just bright blue spark or at least that is what mine now displays in my basement after repair.
> 
> Now here is a gutcha. If somebody will part with a junk ignition which I need for two reasons, I will take pictures of how to make the repair, provide written instructions and explain which part needs to be purchased. I purchased my part on EBay, bought 10 of them, delivered for under $7 bucks.
> 
> The reason I need another ignition is to verify this is the common fault that folks experience with an ignition failure. I think it is but I feel uncomfortable with a repair sample of 1. The next reason is mine is too ripped apart (it functions though) to take pictures for repair instructions. If anybody in the forum has one they want to contribute to the cause, I gladly pay for shipping and handling. This is a chance for every 045/056 with bad ignitions to get their saw running again. Mine now works.... I have not yet started the saw, just got may parts in this afternoon and rushed to install one. Just too anxious to put that off.
> 
> So there you have it. I believe all the failures or at least the greatest number of them are from the same component failure. Too many guys have seen their great 045/056 go belly up with no practical repair. There is hope guys and it is free but I am not going to even attempt to describe how to make the repair until I can do it properly. And you do not need electrical skills although you will need a soldering iron and solder purchased from Radio Shack or some other place that sells electronic stuff. The repair probably take around an hour to complete. You cannot use plumbing solder. So lets see how much interest this thread excites if any.
> 
> Foggy


Hi, I'am from Holland (Europe) and have a 056 AV chainsaw I bought long ago when I was still a young man. I have used this heavy machine rarely (in France where I live most of the time now) and even less when a problem you describe started manifesting itself. After a more or less difficult start it works fine for 5-10 minutes then it stops and it is impossible to start it till it completely cools off. Had it "repaired" in France but probably a typical "French repair", didn't really get much better.So could you sent me some more details of how to replace this capacitor, cause I feel this might be the ideal solution without costing me a fortune? Thx. Peter


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## WI-790R

WI-790R said:


> That is cool! I just yesterday, x-rayed a failed doughnut-shaped one from my 076 Super. Plan to try and draw out the board schematic, etc. I have the pics at work and will be back there on 11/30. Will share them here.


Here is a pieced-together bunch of x-rays of my failed donut shaped module from an 076 Super. I think the two box-shaped components in the 1 o’clock position, are film capacitors. I was expecting a more sizable capacitor in there someplace, assuming this is some version of a CDI.

I also assume the metal can package is an SCR, and that the —| |— looking parts are diodes.

I have not physically dug in to it yet.


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## cweinberg33

nstueve said:


> So do we have a succus rate higher than two units so far?
> 
> Just wondering as I know Axlr8 has a few of these including one of mine that could probably benefit from this fix.
> 
> cheers!


Yes, I just fixed a friends 041 av electronic. First attempted the ground wire repair and the saw would run for 20 to 30 secs and just cut out... So the next step was necessary digging out the old capacitor connections. Then I opened up the epoxy filler, cut the circuit and then soldered a new wire.. I sealed everything up with hot black glue, assembled and finally soldered the wires to the new capacitor. Then routed wires and hot glued the capacitor on the black plastic shield under the air filter assembly. Saw works like a champ now. Thanks everyone who provided the input for the repair. Feel free to ask any questions concerning my repair.


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## PogoInTheWoods

What exact capacitor did you use?


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## Chazz

Hi everyone. Newbee here. I joined as I was very interested in this thread - "SUCCESS!!! Just repaired Stihl 045/056 Bosch electronic ignition!!!!!" by @foggysail I have this problem and intend to try this repair to my Stihl 041 AV Electronic chainsaw as it would appear to be the same Bosch unit. This saw was a beast after I set it up a few years ago and was running really well. Recently started shutting off after 10 or so minutes. Now it has no spark at all. I have checked all the usual things like plug, HT lead, cut off switch and associated wiring. I had assumed it would be the coil but found it was permanently wired into the electronic unit as was the primary coil (if that is the correct term) so came on line to see what my options were. Thankfully I found this thread and here we are. I need to go now and read the whole thread and do some studying :0) I would appreciate some guidance on the capacitor as I cannot seem to find the correct one. Has this capacitor been upgraded? Any updates will be greatly appreciated. Many, many thanks to Foggysail, Lang may you have fair winds and following seas my friend.
All the best from Chazz in Windy, Wet but Bonnie Scotland.


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## Chazz

Yeeha!!! Another success. I have replaced the capacitor on my Stihl 041 AV Electronic chainsaw with https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/392966257274?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649 When I fired up the saw I instantly knew it was a success as the engine sounded much crisper and I had to reduce the idle as it was running fast. Today I used it for a couple of hours and it never missed a beat and devoured a large hardwood trunk I had been working on when it packed up. Well chuffed and well grateful to foggysail for his knowledge and generosity in giving this information.
For anyone repairing their 041 with bosch ignition I have included photo's and a few instructions should they need them. I used a soldering iron with quarter inch blade for softening the potting as this gave more control on the location of the heat. Unlike the original fix, I only ran one wire (the white one) from the electronic ignition,
taking it under the coil and out the flywheel housing via the (black) kill switch wire grommet. you have to file a small groove in the alloy casting to let the wire through to the grommet and if you take your time you can file just enough to give a snug fit on the wire insulation when the ignition unit is screwed down avoiding unnecessary movement (rubbing) of the wire (Sorry forgot to take a photo of this) 

Then under the plastic shield.
I took the other (white) ground wire from the capacitor to one of the four screws that attach the pull start/petrol tank housing to the saws main body which has a high continuity to ground. 
I attached the capacitor to the black plastic shield which sits under the carburetor as I think this would have a good flow of cool air.
It also sits nicely into this space if you butt it against the small ridge in the plastic. It is sufficiently secured with this ridge and the two cable ties. 
Make sure your cable tie "heads" are below the top of the Capacitor as they will foul the throttle connection rod if they are on top. I did not use any glue at all. I did however use a further cable tie on the two wires to stabilize as I imagined these wires would vibrate and eventually stress the delicate terminals on the capacitor. I would say this cable tie is very important for durability. Before you begin you will need to refer to #50 on page 3 https://www.arboristsite.com/thread...bosch-electronic-ignition.256095/post-4800770 for original instructions from foggysail. Have fun.


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## PogoInTheWoods

Well done, sir. Well done. Thank you for sharing your detailed approach and capacitor information. Your time in doing so will be appreciated by many.


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## Chazz

PogoInTheWoods said:


> Well done, sir. Well done. Thank you for sharing your detailed approach and capacitor information. Your time in doing so will be appreciated by many.


The pleasure is mine and no problem at all. I am so grateful to you guys for this fix. I feel very lucky I came accross this thread and site so quickly.


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## Chazz

Thanks guys. Worked the saw for two and a half ours today and still running great.


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## KASH

_bump_


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## KASH

Great job Chazz.I will be trying the Foggysail trick soon can you tell me what you did to connect the white wire in the Bosch electronics.
After you soften and cleaned the potting what wire did you cut and what did you solder your white wire too?
Any help is great.
Kash


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## PogoInTheWoods

KASH said:


> Any help is great.


Try page 3.


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## Brufab

Following


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## Chazz

KASH said:


> Great job Chazz.I will be trying the Foggysail trick soon can you tell me what you did to connect the white wire in the Bosch electronics.
> After you soften and cleaned the potting what wire did you cut and what did you solder your white wire too?
> Any help is great.
> Kash


Hi Kash. Yes as pogo says read and see photo's here: https://www.arboristsite.com/thread...bosch-electronic-ignition.256095/post-4800770
Also for your information it is a very thin band or ribbon of copper (as in a printed circuit) that you cut and then attach your new wire to. Be aware that this band is very flimsy and my first attempt broke off when bending the wire into position before filling in with epoxy. Better to bend wire and have it in its final position before soldering, using a clip or small clamp to keep it in place while soldering. As Foggysail says this is not a difficult task as long as you take your time and do it correctly. I also did continuity tests on my work as I went along to try and eliminate any shorts to earth etc. Foggy also mentions the black kill switch wire on the 045/056 saws are usually defective due to the insulation breaking up but on my 041 saw the black ignition kill switch wire was in excellent condition. Have fun my friend and please let the guys here know how it pans out. My saw was used again yesterday for around one and a half hours and never missed a beat :0)


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## Sheabert

Please Help! I have an 056AV that had the classic symptoms - cut out after 5-10 minutes of run time and wouldn't start until it cooled back off. I did the fix outlined in this thread (thanks a million for your efforts by the way). 
The fix seemed to go well, I am pretty sure got the proper capacitor, and installed per the instructions. I also replaced the cracked kill switch wire. I re-assembled the saw to test the spark before I epoxied everything back in, and turned the crank with a cordless drill. I am getting no spark at low RPM, only after revving the engine fairly high with the drill do I get spark. It seems like much faster than the pull-cord would be able to turn it over. 
Any idea what's wrong? Did I do something wrong in the process, or is there a separate issue going on? 

Thanks!


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## Vintage Engine Repairs

Sheabert said:


> Please Help! I have an 056AV that had the classic symptoms - cut out after 5-10 minutes of run time and wouldn't start until it cooled back off. I did the fix outlined in this thread (thanks a million for your efforts by the way).
> The fix seemed to go well, I am pretty sure got the proper capacitor, and installed per the instructions. I also replaced the cracked kill switch wire. I re-assembled the saw to test the spark before I epoxied everything back in, and turned the crank with a cordless drill. I am getting no spark at low RPM, only after revving the engine fairly high with the drill do I get spark. It seems like much faster than the pull-cord would be able to turn it over.
> Any idea what's wrong? Did I do something wrong in the process, or is there a separate issue going on?
> 
> Thanks!


Logically speaking your capacitor is likely the culprit if everything worked before, though, stick some fuel down the carb and see if it runs, you’ll be surprised how fast the rpm is with pulling it over, it’s typically 1000-1200 rpm via the pull rope. What capacitor did you use? What was the rating? I presume your location on your profile being “WA” isn’t Western Australia? In the unlikely event it is, I don’t mind lending a hand to help you get it running. I did mine without any trouble and I may have one of blue Phillips capacitors left.


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## Sheabert

Vintage Engine Repairs said:


> Logically speaking your capacitor is likely the culprit if everything worked before, though, stick some fuel down the carb and see if it runs, you’ll be surprised how fast the rpm is with pulling it over, it’s typically 1000-1200 rpm via the pull rope. What capacitor did you use? What was the rating? I presume your location on your profile being “WA” isn’t Western Australia? In the unlikely event it is, I don’t mind lending a hand to help you get it running. I did mine without any trouble and I may have one of blue Phillips capacitors left.


Thanks for the reply. No, not in Australia. Washington State, US. Here's a pic of the Ebay capacitor I used. Am I on the right track?


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## Vintage Engine Repairs

The only thing I can’t tell is if it’s a pulse capacitor. Double check your connections and also just try what I said giving it a run and see if it starts.


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## PogoInTheWoods

Make sure the drill is running in reverse while checking for spark. A few hundred RPMs is all it should take to light up the plug if you're turning it over in the correct direction.


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## Sheabert

Update- It runs great! I was just underestimating how fast the pull cord would turn it over. 
Thanks for all your help!


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## Vintage Engine Repairs

Sheabert said:


> Update- It runs great! I was just underestimating how fast the pull cord would turn it over.
> Thanks for all your help!


Great! Generally electronic ignition requires higher rpm to make a spark, with points you can often hold the flywheel and twist it by hand past the magnet and you’ll get a spark. 

On the times I have had a tach on my saws, I get about 1200 rpm max from a standard pull via a cord without decomp, It’s surprisingly high!


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## PogoInTheWoods

Congratulations!


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## camel2019

Would this be a fix the the coil in the ts350/ts360 saws and I think later 08s thinking it’s the same style.


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## av8or3

I’m joining the ranks of Foggysail’s followers. This would be my first such repair. It’s my Dolmar123. Classic symptoms , runs hard for about 5-10 mins then quits and will not restart until its cooled down. I’m going to secure the capacitor with silicone in the air box. I’ll solder the white wire to the positive side and ground the other terminal to the engine case there. It will work. I just gotta wait on the capacitors to arrive. Thanks @foggysail !


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## av8or3

I used clear epoxy to fill the pot after the repair.


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## PogoInTheWoods

Nice job. Looks like a pretty clean Dolmar, too!


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## av8or3

Thanks


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## av8or3

These are the caps I bought. Are they polarized caps or non polarized? Does anybody know?








5 PCS Film EVOX Capacitor 400V 1uF 105 CAP (REPLACING FOR 250V 200V 160V 100V ) | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 5 PCS Film EVOX Capacitor 400V 1uF 105 CAP (REPLACING FOR 250V 200V 160V 100V ) at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



www.ebay.com




I can’t tell from the pics if they are marked or not. (-+)


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## av8or3

av8or3 said:


> These are the caps I bought. Are they polarized caps or non polarized? Does anybody know?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 5 PCS Film EVOX Capacitor 400V 1uF 105 CAP (REPLACING FOR 250V 200V 160V 100V ) | eBay
> 
> 
> Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 5 PCS Film EVOX Capacitor 400V 1uF 105 CAP (REPLACING FOR 250V 200V 160V 100V ) at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
> 
> 
> 
> www.ebay.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can’t tell from the pics if they are marked or not. (-+)


Got it! Post #53. They are NOT polarized. Thanks again @foggysail


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## av8or3

Here’s the final result. The capacitor is tucked in under the ledge there in the air box. One white wire comes from the ignition the other is grounded under the screw for the cyl cover. I used a dab of ultra copper to hold it in place. There is 1/8” clearance between the intake elbow and the capacitor. I had to remove the elbow to install it. Best of all, it works.


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## PogoInTheWoods

Pretty slick! And congrats for another successful Foggy Fix.

Now about the thin flocking on that air fiter..., LOL


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## av8or3

PogoInTheWoods said:


> Now about the thin flocking on that air fiter..., LOL


That’s all I got.


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## PogoInTheWoods

Just a little razzin'. Craft felt and hot glue is always an option and is said to be a good (and economical) fix for both large and small areas. There's also Uni-Filter material. Pretty high end. Comes in various densities for different applications and can turn a nasty filter frame into a poor man's Max-Flo. Then there's always a piece of nylon stocking...

I've certainly seen much worse and you're obviously contientious about yours.


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## av8or3

That’s actually a new NOS filter. The area between the three screws is solid plastic. It has fuzz everywhere it’s supposed to. The thin looking areas that border the fuzzy areas are actually solid plastic as well. It’s been doing a good job when the saw would run.


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## PogoInTheWoods

Gotcha. I feel much better now! LOL


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## Lightning Performance

PogoInTheWoods said:


> Just a little razzin'. Craft felt and hot glue is always an option and is said to be a good (and economical) fix for both large and small areas. There's also Uni-Filter material. Pretty high end. Comes in various densities for different applications and can turn a nasty filter frame into a poor man's Max-Flo. Then there's always a piece of nylon stocking...
> 
> I've certainly seen much worse and you're obviously contientious about yours.


I'm going to try updating a few filters with foam and outwear.
These old girls just need some love. Really like the three layer but need thinner stuff for the top handles.


----------



## foggysail

My reply to the Moderator:

I joined to see if there was a solution to an ignition problem for my Stihl 56 chainsaw--- there was none. So I decided to pull apart my saw's ignition and analyze the electronic ignition circuit and found the failure.

I then replaced a defective component along with modifying its mechanical location. Sure enough, I FIXED MY SAW. I next posted "Success! I fixed my Stihl 56 ignition'' and provided an easy solution for ALL to repair similar failed Stihl ignitions WITH PICTURES FOR FREE!!!

My fix is still posted in the forums WITH OVER 900 REPLIES AND THANKS FROM USERS.

AND YOU CARELESSLY IGNORED MY IMPORTANT POST THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN MADE A STICKY!!!!! Someone who viewed my FIX went forward and posted it on YOUTUBE. He did extend credit to me and I thank him for doing so.

And you are now BITCHING to me because I have contributed NOTHING??? REALLY???? GET REAL!!!! AND GET OFF YOUR @$$ AND HELP OTHER MEMBERS BY MAKING MY ORIGINAL POST A STICKY.

Joe Howarth---Foggysail
[email protected]


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## PogoInTheWoods

This thread has become legendary on its own (and will remain so for very good reason) without the cheesiness or necessity of being proclaimed a forum 'Sticky" -- (like they're some kind of merit badge). I'd venture to say most folks arrive here by a Google search for 'Stihl 045/056 Ignition Fix' anyway. Guess what's first on the list of those search results?

The above assertions and complaining only serve to diminish the thread's (and your own) well earned integrity..., and provide satisfaction to whomever got under your skin.

It will also now be viewed by anyone doing a Google search for the Foggysail fix. Not a very good look, Joe.


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## Ludwig457

I'm new to forums, which page can I find the instructions? Thx


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## av8or3

Ludwig457 said:


> I'm new to forums, which page can I find the instructions? Thx


Just start at the beginning. They begin a page or two after the beginning. It works too. I have three saws that are running this way. Two Dolmars and a Stihl 056 Super.
I can also add that it’s not necessary to run the ground wire for the capacitor back to the module. You can ground it anywhere on the saw body and then there’s one less wire to squeeze thru the hole under the flywheel.


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## PogoInTheWoods

The meat and potatoes begins on page three. But as suggested, start from the beginning to understand the whole picture and gain some context -- provided the repair you're contemplating is actually for the Bosch ignition described in this thread..


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## Jasonrkba

It works!


----------

