# Need advice-hung up tree removal



## peterc38 (Jul 16, 2010)

Most of what I normally for people cut is on the ground. As you can see this is not. I do some felling too but I have never had a tree hung up like this to remove. Looks a little tricky. I'm open to suggestions. I did not take this down, it fell over in a storm.

Here is the tree from a distance of about 40 ft.








The butt is actually resting on a pile of wood from a previous take down. It is perhaps 30" at the very bottom. A tree service had done that takedown, the next day, this tree came down in high winds.







Here is a view standing on top of the base of trunk looking up the tree. The tree has two main forks. The right fork is resting in the crotch of a pine tree as you can see. The crotch it is resting in is perhaps 13-14 ft off the ground. The left fork is not hung up. You can walk up the trunk to where the tree is hung up, but it is kinda steep. It perhaps starts as a 20 degree incline, but the right fork is less than that, maybe 12-15 degree incline. I was able to walk up to where tree was hung up







Here is another view of the two forks from standing under base of tree and looking up.







Here is another view from the backside looking up at two forks.






The timeframe is open so I don't have to do this tomorrow or anything. I'd like to be able to get it because I can get the wood from the first takedown too which together would be over 2 cords of oak.

I have ideas about how to do this but am not sure.

I'm open to suggestions from my AS brethren :greenchainsaw:


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## RAMROD48 (Jul 16, 2010)

gotta winch?

I personally would cut as much of the "top" as i could first....


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## DSS (Jul 16, 2010)

+ 1 on the winch. I think I'd be trying to pull that puppy outta there.
Walking up and cutting it looks like a good way to get hurt. Get it on the ground first.


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## Philbert (Jul 16, 2010)

RAMROD48 said:


> gotta winch?
> I personally would cut as much of the "top" as i could first....




Both good ideas. Always hard to tell without being there, but '_if it were my tree . . ._' I would like to cut away as much of the top as possible, using a powered pole pruner for the higher limbs. 

It looks like the trunk is held pretty steady in the crotch of the second tree, but, since the butt is on a pile of cut wood, it could slide and drop and/or roll. I would start at the top and cut it up into firewood-sized pieces until I reached the crotch tree, always keeping myself away from being under the tree or where it might roll. Best option then would be to use a rope or chain to pull it free from the crotch to the ground: that would be safer than underbucking it.

Philbert


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## smokinj (Jul 16, 2010)

Wow, My first choice is to drop weight and thats starting on the butt end and cut as much as I can safely. 16-18in cuts as far up as I can..Long bar sure come in handy here! Thats where I would start and see what happens my mind could change on this one. After dropping some weight the wench could come into play.


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## ericjeeper (Jul 16, 2010)

I would just choke it and drag it out with my dozer.But that is me.


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## smokinj (Jul 16, 2010)

ericjeeper said:


> I would just choke it and drag it out with my dozer.But that is me.



LOL, Sweeet never had an OP like that.


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## bluestem (Jul 16, 2010)

That's nasty... That snag is way up there. I like the idea of getting weight out of the top of that tree but like others have said you are going to need a pole saw for that and those limbs are pretty damn big up beyond the snag. The further you can get that thing winched out of that crotch the better.

Be safe and good luck.


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## tomtrees58 (Jul 16, 2010)

that's one easy 3 cuts get some professional help tom trees


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## fishercat (Jul 16, 2010)

*I agree with Tom.*

Not difficult for someone with enough experience.

I can think of several ways of doing it.

Any reputable tree guy should be able to get it loose for no more than a couple hundred bucks.I'd say that's a lot cheaper than getting hurt.

If I was closer I'd do it for you.


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## tomtrees58 (Jul 16, 2010)

fishercat said:


> Not difficult for someone with enough experience.
> 
> I can think of several ways of doing it.
> 
> ...


:agree2:its and easy one but cant tell him how to do it tom


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## fishercat (Jul 16, 2010)

*Nope....................*



tomtrees58 said:


> :agree2:its and easy one but cant tell him how to do it tom



too much liability in giving advice.opcorn:


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## smokinj (Jul 16, 2010)

fishercat said:


> too much liability in giving advice.opcorn:



Lol you never know whats going to happen from a pic...Good clue but if your not the one on the saw, all you can really do is help mimize risk.


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## unclemoustache (Jul 16, 2010)

Just get underneath and start cutting. You'll be fine. Close your eyes if it gets scary. What you don't see can't hurt you. :jester:


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## WidowMaker (Jul 17, 2010)

Think it could be done with 2 cuts from a manlift...


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## SpiralAcacia (Jul 17, 2010)

unclemoustache said:


> Just get underneath and start cutting. You'll be fine. Close your eyes if it gets scary. What you don't see can't hurt you. :jester:



That's the spirit!!
Look at them arborists making a big fuss over a coupla cords of firewood...
I would think of making a day of it, getting friends and family to a nice picnic on a nice day, why, the kids can help pushing the tree so it falls where you want it. Don't forget videotaping it for youtube and the news.


SA


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## tomtrees58 (Jul 17, 2010)

WidowMaker said:


> Think it could be done with 2 cuts from a manlift...



we are arborist here you don't need that


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## BryanEx (Jul 17, 2010)

Wow... I'm impressed. A guy posts a legitimate question about a situation he's concerned with BEFORE cutting anything, includes all the details he can think of, attached pictures from every angle, yet most replies are simply smart ass remarks.

peterc38... what do you have available for equipment? Anything to pull with? Do you have a rental place nearby if you don't have a pole saw? It also looks like the limb that's jammed in the crotch has a large split in it in one of the photos. If that's the case it adds more uncertainty to the equation. Do not try to "fence-post" this tree to get the wood you can reach.


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## tomtrees58 (Jul 17, 2010)

BryanEx said:


> Wow... I'm impressed. A guy posts a legitimate question about a situation he's concerned with BEFORE cutting anything, includes all the details he can think of, attached pictures from every angle, yet most replies are simply smart ass remarks.
> 
> 
> your the smart :censored:we are not going to tell a homeowner how to do it and get hurt we are telling him to get some help


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## tomtrees58 (Jul 17, 2010)

got to love weekend wood cutters not


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## smokinj (Jul 17, 2010)

I am not looking at any proprty damage here.....ok maybe move the bench Not sure how many people that could take?


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## Haywire Haywood (Jul 17, 2010)

tomtrees58 said:


> got to love weekend wood cutters not



Looks like the "weekend wood cutters" have hard hats, harnesses and a crane.

Ian


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## tomtrees58 (Jul 17, 2010)

Haywire Haywood said:


> Looks like the "weekend wood cutters" have hard hats, harnesses and a crane.
> 
> Ian



yup i do the biggest nastys trees here on L I


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## tomtrees58 (Jul 17, 2010)

Haywire Haywood said:


> Looks like the "weekend wood cutters" have hard hats, harnesses and a crane.
> 
> Ian







you think its homeowner work


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## smokinj (Jul 17, 2010)

Dont think the Op's tree going to measure up here.


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## banshee67 (Jul 17, 2010)

tomtrees58 said:


> got to love weekend wood cutters not



you probably just offended about half the forum members with that comment..
especially in the firewood section! lol


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## Noko (Jul 17, 2010)

Here is what I would do.
However, cut the tree at your own risk.

(1) Climb the tree from the bottom to the hung up spot, and cut off tops, and come back to the bottom.

(2) Lay a good size round or two under the tree where the top side of the trunk is about your shoulder height, and cut/buck the trunk from good side, so that cut trunks roll away from you, if they do.

(3) See if you can pull the trunk (using the round like a wheel) away from the hung up with whatever you have. If not, repeat step (2) until you can pull the trunk away from the hung up or until you no longer need to pull the trunk away from the hung up.


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## Philbert (Jul 17, 2010)

Noko said:


> Here is what I would do.
> However, cut the tree at your own risk.
> (1) Climb the tree from the bottom to the hung up spot,



*Please don't do this!!* You have seen the cartoons, right, where the guy is sitting on the limb and cutting on the wrong side, right?

That tree is unstable, and you should not be standing on it, under it, or in the path that it might fall. 

Even creative ideas like packing the crotch with dynamite would be a better approach.

Philbert


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## Philbert (Jul 17, 2010)

Looking on the positive side, this house probably will benefit from a bunch of LEED credits: natural daylight; fresh air circulation; incorporation of natural 'green' elements; rainwater collection; improved egress; etc.

Philbert


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## Burvol (Jul 17, 2010)

Hung up/wound up timber rule of thumb: Cut from side that will pinch you out, not break your leg LOL


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## StihlyinEly (Jul 17, 2010)

peterc38 said:


>



Well, Peter, maybe I'm underthinking this, but I don't see a big problem. I've run into this situation probably a dozen times over the years doing tree service work.

I'd first trim off whatever branches were in the way that I could reach (carefully from an extension ladder or with my pole pruner). Then cut off the top of the hung section just beyond where it protrudes from the standing tree fork, so it's still hung in the fork. Not sure how far off the ground it is, but a simple short ladder against the standing tree and a few steps up should take care of that easily. 

Then I'd come around and take off the other top, the one that's not hung, and I'd take it off a couple feet or so _short of_ the standing tree, so it wouldn't be able to jam against the trunk when the fallen tree eventually twists/drops. A simple extension ladder, firmly anchored, should easily suffice, although you'll be cutting to your left for that part, which can be awkward, so take a little extra care.

OK, so now you've got the top off, and what's holding up matters (hey, a pun) is just that one section of the tree stuck in the crotch of the standing tree.

I'd go back to the trunk/stump and work from there, bucking the trunk with undercuts to firewood length. Each undercut will result in the trunk dropping back to the ground, so you won't be cutting above your head. Eventually, at some point, you'll run out of trunk, and the weight/angle of what remains will either pull the hung section out of the fork or wedge it in tighter. If it pulls it out, you're golden. If it stays hung with the trunk portion suspended off the ground, you can carefully buck your way up toward the crotch (cutting down through the log this time), minding the torsion that's going to result as you work through the broken/split section. 

When what remains is lightweight enough, push it out with a strong back, strong legs and a pole. Or dally a rope around it and pull it out with a pickup.

I have never had a problem doing what I described. It surely helps to have a buddy or two around to lend a hand, but I've done it solo three or four times. 

All that being said, your results may vary, and you of course are proceeding absolutely at your own risk. 

Good luck with it. Lots of great BTUs waiting there.


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## Burvol (Jul 17, 2010)

StihlyinEly said:


> Well, Peter, maybe I'm underthinking this, but I don't see a big problem. I've run into this situation probably a dozen times over the years doing tree service work.
> 
> I'd first cut off the top of the hung section just beyond where it protrudes from the standing tree fork, so it's still hung in the fork. Not sure how far off the ground it is, but a simple short ladder against the standing tree and a few steps up should take care of that easily.
> 
> ...



Arrogant, dumb, whatever, it doesn't matter. You can't teach some things on the internet, like how to be an accomplished sawyer. The more stuff like this you tackle and survive the more you will grow. _This is a nasty business at times. _


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## StihlyinEly (Jul 17, 2010)

Burvol said:


> You can't teach some things on the internet, like how to be an accomplished sawyer. The more stuff like this you tackle and survive the more you will grow. _This is a nasty business at times. _



I agree with all that.

However, if we take the OP at his word, he knows his way around a saw, has bucked a lot and felled a bit. A guy like that who wants a little help for something a bit more advanced (not really THAT advanced), probably will be able to take how-to comments that are clearly written and apply them, if he decides to go forward.  

And it for sure can be a nasty business. No reason AS has to be nasty, too. I'm not aiming that at you, Burvol, I'm just saying.


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## angelo c (Jul 17, 2010)

Peter, 
I must be missing something, there is a Kubota in your sig, can you NOT get that machine to the site ? or is it too small to use ? We've pulled out similar snags with a 30hp tractor and some wedges and rope. Yup rope. I would suggest chains or cables and winches. Of course after the canopy is cut out. Looks like you have plenty of room to pull straight out of snag or maybe winch around a tree for some better angle. 

Call me crazy but I would rather load and unload a borrowed tractor/backhoe/dozer then risk an arm or leg to some injury. If the client isn't willing to pay for professional equiptment then walk away to the next job. Amazingly wood DOES grow on trees. And there is always another tree somewhere that's easier to get. 

As always tree work is fun for most of us and work for some. Injury is never fun and always work for the Doctors.


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## Burvol (Jul 17, 2010)

StihlyinEly said:


> I agree with all that.
> 
> However, if we take the OP at his word, he knows his way around a saw, has bucked a lot and felled a bit. A guy like that who wants a little help for something a bit more advanced (not really THAT advanced), probably will be able to take how-to comments that are clearly written and apply them, if he decides to go forward.
> 
> And it for sure can be a nasty business. No reason AS has to be nasty, too. I'm not aiming that at you, Burvol, I'm just saying.



Oh I agree completely. I just point out the obvious and I am too blunt at times. Like, "Cut from bind side, not busted leg side". That stuff is funny if your a logger, I don't care who you are LOL. I try to laugh at all the bad stuff I have gone through, even the serious injuries. There are good and bad things all over this instance. The bad being injured or equipment being destroyed. He will learn and grow. We all do.


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## PineFever (Jul 17, 2010)

If you are really going to try the take down, use the tree to the left in your third picture to your advantage. Either climb the the tree, or get an extension ladder, install a whoopie sling with clevis or pulley about 10 feet higher that the leaner. Run a bull-rope thru the clevis or pulley and tie off the leaner (not the cracked section that is hung in the forked crotch) a foot or so towards the base, put some tension on the tree and wrap your bull rope around an adjacent tree a couple of times and tie it off. This way when you remove the top of the cracked wedged side on the side facing the base the tree will not drop or roll toward you. The cracked top will remain resting in the fork for removal at your discretion. Then untie the bull-rope and lower the tied off side to the ground where you can safely complete the removal. If you can afford it why not call a professional in to do the removal or at least get it to the ground, Then you take care of the rest yourself. Not only would the problem be taken care of but you will learn lots watching him/her work.
Good luck and be careful


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## tomtrees58 (Jul 17, 2010)

banshee67 said:


> you probably just offended about half the forum members with that comment..
> especially in the firewood section! lol



but my wood don't have bugs lol


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## BryanEx (Jul 17, 2010)

The biggest problem I see is that Peter states the crotch is close to 14' high. If it was at 4' it would be easy enough to sort out for a ground level cutter but I don't see how it can be done safely without at least some pulling power involved. The canopy needs to come off but how do you do that without doing one of the many dumb things posted on utube - cutting from the bucket on a front end loader, using an extension ladder, climbing the trunk, etc. If Peter has or can get some pull he has a shot but otherwise he will be "spinning the wheel" to see if he gets hurt (or worse). Either way it may not matter because he hasn't returned to this thread since his original post anyway.


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## StihlyinEly (Jul 17, 2010)

BryanEx said:


> The biggest problem I see is that Peter states the crotch is close to 14' high. If it was at 4' it would be easy enough to sort out for a ground level cutter but I don't see how it can be done safely without at least some pulling power involved. The canopy needs to come off but how do you do that without doing one of the many dumb things posted on utube - cutting from the bucket on a front end loader, using an extension ladder, climbing the trunk, etc. If Peter has or can get some pull he has a shot but otherwise he will be "spinning the wheel" to see if he gets hurt (or worse). Either way it may not matter because he hasn't returned to this thread since his original post anyway.



Yeah, 14 feet is pretty high. Looked more like 8-10 in the pic. You'd need a good extension ladder for that one if you don't have heavy equipment or climbing gear. I missed the fork height in the OP. I'd be comfortable doing it from a long enough standard extension ladder. I've done it often enough before. With care/precautions, it CAN be done safely. It's only two cuts with a light saw, and I've never had heavy equipment for my tree work, so I've gotten used to doing it low tech.

That being said, it ain't up to me whether to climb up and cut that tree. 

Also a pretty simple matter to rent a pole chainsaw for those cuts if one is available in the area.


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## smokinj (Jul 17, 2010)

Start at the butt end there is very little weight on it easier than bucking it on the ground worse case you need a wedge.


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## Philbert (Jul 17, 2010)

smokinj said:


> Start at the butt end there is very little weight on it easier than bucking it on the ground worse case you need a wedge.



If you start at the butt you will change the balance with all of the weight still in the top. The trunk could rise, or roll, or shift and break the crotch, or hang up in the air where its a tall reach to cut.

The upper branches are hanging out there just waiting to be cut to length with a pole saw. Then it's just a short pull to drop the trunk onto the ground.

Philbert


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## smokinj (Jul 17, 2010)

Philbert said:


> If you start at the butt you will change the balance with all of the weight still in the top. The trunk could rise, or roll, or shift and break the crotch, or hang up in the air where its a tall reach to cut.
> 
> The upper branches are hanging out there just waiting to be cut to length with a pole saw. Then it's just a short pull to drop the trunk onto the ground.
> 
> Philbert



hell yeaaa! And thats will make it easy to go to the other side and finnish...
The upper branch is to high for my 41in, bar and ladder are a hudge NO NO! Probally will not get lucky enough for the top to fall, what the Heck is a pole prunner lol


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## StihlyinEly (Jul 17, 2010)

smokinj said:


> bar and ladder are a hudge NO NO!



That's one of the biggest lines of crap in the industry. There are ways to make a ladder secure and ways to make yourself secure while cutting off a ladder. There also are plenty of situations where cutting from a ladder IS foolish. You just have to know when to and not to use one.

I call BS on blanket statements like yours, and always will.


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## smokinj (Jul 17, 2010)

StihlyinEly said:


> That's one of the biggest lines of crap in the industry. There are ways to make a ladder secure and ways to make yourself secure while cutting off a ladder. There also are plenty of situations where cutting from a ladder IS foolish. You just have to know when to and not to use one.
> 
> I call BS on blanket statements like yours, and always will.



LOL Not buying it you can check my insurance is 135.00 a month NO LADDERS! So No BS 
and that inculdes workmans comp. So my best bet would be with or with out insurance butt end and let it flip out of there...Really not going to do anything until weight is drop and going up is easier than down.


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## StihlyinEly (Jul 17, 2010)

smokinj said:


> LOL Not buying it you can check my insurance is 135.00 a month NO LADDERS! So No BS
> and that inculdes workmans comp.



I'm not talking about insurance. Insurance companies don't define what is safe. They just define what they'll let you do and not do if you want to remain insured. All they are worried about regarding ladders is people who don't really know when and when not to use them going ahead and using them in dumb situations and then filing claims. There are in fact a LOT of people who should not be using ladders, and I do understand why insurance companies don't allow them. 

Here's what I don't hear from within the industry: Ladders are a no-no because of insurance. That would not be BS.

Here's what I do hear from within the industry: Ladders are NOT SAFE!!!!! That's BS. 

Just saying.


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## smokinj (Jul 17, 2010)

StihlyinEly said:


> I'm not talking about insurance. Insurance companies don't define what is safe. They just define what they'll let you do and not do if you want to remain insured.
> 
> Here's what I don't hear from within the industry: Ladders are a no-no because of insurance.
> 
> ...



I dont fill good on a ladder, but I am also afarid of heights as well. My brother works off monster ladder on fire alarms for elilly I could not do it. If you fill good on a ladder goforit. I would just make 3-6 cuts from the ground its done and insurance is all good....God know I cant afford a claim. There has to be something to it that was a question that they really wanted to know.


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## StihlyinEly (Jul 17, 2010)

Back on topic, smokin, as you said. 

I did think of just running it up one cut at a time from the base, but pretty soon you'd be running out of trunk within reach if the crotch is 14 feet up. Then what? Gotta go around to the front of the tree then and start hacking up the top until removing enough material shifts the balance and the trunk drops back to the ground. Then the top is out of reach. So go back to the trunk side, whack off a few more until it shifts again. Then go to the top side, whack off more top until it shifts back to the trunk.

Repeat. Repeat again until neither the remainder of the top nor the remainder of the trunk can be reached from the ground. Then, uh, dally a rope and pull it out?


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## smokinj (Jul 17, 2010)

StihlyinEly said:


> Back on topic, smokin, as you said.
> 
> I did think of just running it up one cut at a time from the base, but pretty soon you'd be running out of trunk within reach if the crotch is 14 feet up. Then what? Gotta go around to the front of the tree then and start hacking up the top until removing enough material shifts the balance and the trunk drops back to the ground. Then the top is out of reach. So go back to the trunk side, whack off a few more until it shifts again. Then go to the top side, whack off more top until it shifts back to the trunk.
> 
> Repeat. Repeat again until neither the remainder of the top nor the remainder of the trunk can be reached from the ground. Then, uh, dally a rope and pull it out?



If it would not flip out on its own after running out of trunk I would throw a bull line in and use my boat wench mounted to the tralier and pull it out. If I didnt have a wench I would just use a truck I t would come out of there.


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## StihlyinEly (Jul 17, 2010)

smokinj said:


> If it would not flip out on its own after running out of trunk I would throw a bull line in and use my boat wench mounted to the tralier and pull it out. If I didnt have a wench I would just use a truck I t would come out of there.



Well that's the lowest tech solution I've seen so far. Could darn well work. I've pulled some pretty darn heavy/gnarled up stuff with a simple heavy 1/2 ton 4x4 before.


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## smokinj (Jul 17, 2010)

StihlyinEly said:


> Well that's the lowest tech solution I've seen so far. Could darn well work. I've pulled some pretty darn heavy/gnarled up stuff with a simple heavy 1/2 ton 4x4 before.



I have an old 1970's boat wench that was for a big fiberglass boat. I use it to snatch trunks all the time for milling..It would pull that thang with little effort but before steeling it off my brother the truck would have had to do.


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## oldirty (Jul 17, 2010)

anyone that cuts from a ladder is a complete moron. anyone that recommends cutting from a ladder should be removed from the site.

why are you asking for professional help near the firewood pile? you will not get the right answer and will only wind up in a precarious situation. 

find a climber to come by and give him a couple hundo for the effort. thats worth a couple cord of oak, no?


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## smokinj (Jul 17, 2010)

oldirty said:


> anyone that cuts from a ladder is a complete moron. anyone that recommends cutting from a ladder should be removed from the site.
> 
> why are you asking for professional help near the firewood pile? you will not get the right answer and will only wind up in a precarious situation.
> 
> find a climber to come by and give him a couple hundo for the effort. thats worth a couple cord of oak, no?



Oh I have a climber he works by the job only and he would laugh at me if I needed hes help on this one.....He comes into play when theres no where to drop it. I dont use ladders.


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## StihlyinEly (Jul 17, 2010)

oldirty said:


> anyone that cuts from a ladder is a complete moron. anyone that recommends cutting from a ladder should be removed from the site.



I qualify on both counts. Never even had a close call from a ladder, because I'm careful and only use them when I believe the situation calls for it. 

Jerk me from the site, bud.


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## smokinj (Jul 17, 2010)

StihlyinEly said:


> I qualify on both counts. Never even had a close call from a ladder, because I'm careful and only use them when I believe the situation calls for it.
> 
> Jerk me from the site, bud.



LOL I like you Stihlyinely! Rep sent. lol ok I am out of rep for 24hrs hit u soon.


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## StihlyinEly (Jul 17, 2010)

smokinj said:


> LOL I like you Stihlyinely! Rep sent. lol ok I am out of rep for 24hrs hit u soon.



Ah, don't worry about it, smoke. I'm sure oldirty will rep me. He's really a closet ladder admirer. :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


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## smokinj (Jul 17, 2010)

StihlyinEly said:


> Ah, don't worry about it, smoke. I'm sure oledirty will rep me. He's really a closet ladder user. :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:



sure, sure he will!!!! lolopcorn:


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## StihlyinEly (Jul 17, 2010)

Ooooo, busted me on the edit!!!


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## oldirty (Jul 17, 2010)

ely you the one telling this guy to cut from a ladder. someone who you has absolutely no idea how to get this tree on the ground. if he had a clue he wouldn't be asking. you claim to work from a ladder which tells me you are not actually qualified to do the work too. unless this guy has a bucket truck or a lift he shouldnt do this tree. you want him to be releasing all that pent up energy from a ladder? all those cuts should be made from above and if you actually knew what you were talking about you would know this.

you really want this guys death or paralyzation on your conscious? you the man.


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## StihlyinEly (Jul 17, 2010)

oldirty said:


> ely you the one telling this guy to cut from a ladder. someone who you has absolutely no idea how to get this tree on the ground. if he had a clue he wouldn't be asking. you claim to work from a ladder which tells me you are not actually qualified to do the work too. unless this guy has a bucket truck or a lift he shouldnt do this tree. you want him to be releasing all that pent up energy from a ladder? all those cuts should be made from above and if you actually knew what you were talking about you would know this.
> 
> you really want this guys death or paralyzation on your conscious? you the man.



I told the OP what I'd be comfortable doing, and what I've carefully done on quite a few occasions before without mishap. I did not tell him what he should do, and in fact cautioned him. Other than that, I'm just going to let this go before it gets too dirty.


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## ts39136 (Jul 18, 2010)

Where is the OP? Oh, did you scare off another one?

I've learned a lot from this forum, but what sticks in my mind is that some (not all) professional tree guys are way over testosteroned. Get the man tools, the crane, the man lift, let the homeowner pay for the rental or walk away and tell your tree-buddies not to touch his house as punishment. 

Dude.. It's a problem that he chose to share with you all. He's not in a rush and looking to learn as much as possible before doing it. It's not like it's a skyscraper with 48 support beams. It's a tree, in a crotch. He will do it, I'm sure now, because he has learned what a great respectful bunch of people are on this site. Believe it or not there are people in this world that can function without a self proclaimed expert spending his money.

I spend extra at the garden store that gives me free advice, I go out of my way to recommend the saw shop that has treated me well. If in fact you are professionals, you are doing your business no favors talking about it here.

Please rename this forum to the professional firewood sales forum, becuase time and again, homeowners are not welcomed here.:bang:


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## StihlyinEly (Jul 18, 2010)

ts39136 said:


> Where is the OP? Oh, did you scare off another one?
> 
> I've learned a lot from this forum, but what sticks in my mind is that some (not all) professional tree guys are way over testosteroned. Get the man tools, the crane, the man lift, let the homeowner pay for the rental or walk away and tell your tree-buddies not to touch his house as punishment.
> 
> ...



We're not all arseholes. Honestly. But I understand exactly where you are coming from. I see a lot of things on this site that make me want to




too.

Sorry for my part in the pukage.


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## ts39136 (Jul 18, 2010)

StihlyinEly said:


> We're not all arseholes. Honestly. But I understand exactly where you are coming from. I see a lot of things on this site that make me want to
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I believe you were the first one to actually spend the time and digest the problem and offer some advice based on your experiences. No need for you to be feeling guilty.

I do have a local tree guy here that is very helpful, too. I recommend him to everyone. Why? Because he told me the best way to trim up a 60 foot tree even though I wasn't going to pay him to do it. He not only just let me, but he offered to clean up some of the brush around my property while he had his chipper out there. Now, whenever someone is looking for tree work, I pull out my cell phone and give them the number.

I know there are good people in this world, but I've run across the other kind too.


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## StihlyinEly (Jul 18, 2010)

ts39136 said:


> I believe you were the first one to actually spend the time and digest the problem and offer some advice based on your experiences. No need for you to be feeling guilty.
> 
> I do have a local tree guy here that is very helpful, too. I recommend him to everyone. Why? Because he told me the best way to trim up a 60 foot tree even though I wasn't going to pay him to do it. He not only just let me, but he offered to clean up some of the brush around my property while he had his chipper out there. Now, whenever someone is looking for tree work, I pull out my cell phone and give them the number.



I don't really feel guilty. I'm just making sure I haven't been The Prime Arse Among Prime Arses in this thread.

I actually work pretty hard to be the helpful guy you mentioned. Aside from the arborist work, I used to run a greenhouse and landscaping business, and I'm a fifth generation master gardener. I hire out all that expertise.

But when someone stops me on the street or in the yard or in a greenhouse and wants to chat and get free advice, I cheerfully give them free advice. Why? Because I can find something to like about most people. Because I'm a teacher. Because the satisfaction I see in their faces in learning something important to them puts a smile on my face.

And all that means something else: When they know they need a pro, they come to the pro they know and like. 

Guess what? That pro ain't the guy who snickers about stupid homeowners.

And this is a freaking Internet help forum. Do the secretive hire-a-pro-if-you-have-a-single-question folks really expect to lose business by offering help here? Really. Get a grip. It's just the opposite. You list your city and state in your avatar field. You are cheerful, helpful and professional in your posts, and you don't let your own ego snip off your gonads. Hello! You get business that way FOR FREE!!! :biggrinbounce2:

Sometimes I wonder how the human race survives. Is a puzzlement!


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## oldirty (Jul 18, 2010)

you guys done rubbing each other's pee-pee's trying to make each other feel better?

asking the question that the original poster asked and looking for advice on proper treecare/removal in this particular forum (firewood forum) is like asking corky thatcher to do your brain surgery. 

you don't get it. 

ely just because you have run a saw does not mean you can dole out unsound advice.

ts. you don't need all that equipment you just need to be above what you are cutting to avoid mishap in this particular case. 

climb the f'n tree to remedy the situation safely. but since none of you guys are professional let alone proficient of course you are going to be told to get help. 

i don't think you realize how many times i have been to a job that the homeowner started and got hurt in the process. it happens because you as a non tree professional do not understand what can happen. you don't know and you can't recognize it. but hey save that money, hospital trips ain't cheap!


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## JJuday (Jul 18, 2010)

No rocket science here with this one. Start right to left in top and buck with care below. I'd rather deal with snags than to cut hollow trees, at least with the snags there is time to take in the situation before hand, with felling a hollow, once you commit...you run or stay with it. 

To pay a climber "a few bills" for 100$ of fire wood makes no sense. So OP, either do it or gather the cut wood and go home and stack it. That simple. You have to decide what YOU are comfortable with. 

I'd lay the saw to it, but that's just me. JJuday


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## StihlyinEly (Jul 18, 2010)

oldirty said:


> ely just because you have run a saw does not mean you can dole out unsound advice.



You are correct.


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## oldirty (Jul 18, 2010)

JJuday said:


> No rocket science here with this one. Start right to left in top and buck with care below.
> 
> I'd lay the saw to it, but that's just me. JJuday



you 12ft tall?


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## oldirty (Jul 18, 2010)

in reality though, just like tomtrees said it is about 3 cuts to get it on the ground safely. 2 of them need to be from above. thats the thing.

stay safe boys.


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## StihlyinEly (Jul 18, 2010)

oldirty said:


> 2 of them need to be from above. thats the thing.
> 
> stay safe boys.



From my stabilized ladder, the two cuts I mentioned would be downward from my slightly elevated position. 

Quit drinking the KoolAid, dirty. Go toward the light! :biggrinbounce2:


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## Cmccul8146 (Jul 18, 2010)

Don't see any reason why you don't hook a chain or strong cable on the pine crotch piece just above the Oak that is wedged in & split it off from the main trunk with a pull or 2 with a tractor or pickup truck. Pine is soft & splits easily. With the weight of the Oak in the crotch it's already acting as somewhat of a wedge. A couple of pulls, crotch splits off & BINGO, Oak hits the ground. Just make sure your chain or cable is long enough so that you're well away from where anything will fall.


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## BryanEx (Jul 18, 2010)

ts39136 said:


> Where is the OP? Oh, did you scare off another one?
> 
> I've learned a lot from this forum, but what sticks in my mind is that some (not all) professional tree guys are way over testosteroned.



Really glad to see I'm not alone on that view. Good on you ts39136.


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## tex (Jul 18, 2010)

Why is it that the "pros" always think that someone with a different career can't think for themselves? Just because a guy asks a question, doesn't mean he's not capable. I asked a local saw shop once what the max rpm should be for one of my saws. That lead into them telling me that I can't tune my own saw, and I'd burn it up if I messed with it. BS. Different shop told me once that I'd F up my chain if I filed it myself. "Gotta have a pro do or it won't be right". BS. When people ask my "professional" opinion, I give it to them strait up. Those same people always come back with money, and send others my way. 

As for the tree in question, if it doesn't feel right, don't do it. If the original poster thinks he can get it down, then he should go for it. From what I see, I'd go for it. I'd top out everything I could right up to the snag, cut the free limb loose, try to winch the rest out to the ground if it will go, and if not, buck it up until it will come out. Not necessarily in that order. I would re-evaluate after each cut and make changes as needed. The idea of breaking loose the pine limb is a good one too, if the landowner will allow it. 

PS: I've used ladders before (just yesterday in fact) and I'm still typing with both hands.


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## Philbert (Jul 18, 2010)

Cmccul8146 said:


> Don't see any reason why you don't hook a chain or strong cable on the pine crotch piece just above the Oak that is wedged in & split it off from the main trunk with a pull or 2 with a tractor or pickup truck.



1. No reason to destroy that tree.

2. Wedged tree would probably just wedge lower on the the trunk .


Philbert


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## smokinj (Jul 18, 2010)

oldirty said:


> in reality though, just like tomtrees said it is about 3 cuts to get it on the ground safely. 2 of them need to be from above. thats the thing.
> 
> stay safe boys.



Simplest way would be to climb it but not the only safe way to do it.


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## doobie57z (Jul 18, 2010)

I'm not an arborist, but I would bet an arborists fee I could get this down in an hour, my feet never leaving the ground.


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## Philbert (Jul 18, 2010)

doobie57z said:


> I'm not an arborist, but I would bet an arborists fee I could get this down in an hour, my feet never leaving the ground.



I'm lazier. Some of those branches would take a bit of sawing with a manual pole pruner.

Philbert


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## doobie57z (Jul 18, 2010)

its only two cuts. see pic 3. cut the smaller branch closest to the cam, to get it out of the way. the branch in the crotch is cracked, as I sawed on it it would weaken and slowly droop the tree to the ground. or snap , but either way the back branch would keep it from crushing me, as long as i stayed out from under it. i would be standing far right, pic 3, it appears slightly down hill. If I survived, I would then take the saved arborist's fee to my local indian casino, where i would easily double it.


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## JJuday (Jul 18, 2010)

doobie57z said:


> its only two cuts. see pic 3. cut the smaller branch closest to the cam, to get it out of the way. the branch in the crotch is cracked, as I sawed on it it would weaken and slowly droop the tree to the ground. or snap , but either way the back branch would keep it from crushing me, as long as i stayed out from under it. i would be standing far right, pic 3, it appears slightly down hill. If I survived, I would then take the saved arborist's fee to my local indian casino, where i would easily double it.



There might be a little more to it than that. Slow and steady wins the race here. Nice thing with a tree like this is there are so many options to choose from that can still yield out to a safe. 

Someone mentioned earlier on that the OP could just climb up the tree trunk and cut from there. That to me is unsound advice, cutting from a sturdy, well built, carefully positioned and secured ladder is a much better idea. I'm not sure why Stihlyinely is getting so much guff over this.

I put little stock in either term "expert" or "professional". JJuday


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## DSS (Jul 18, 2010)

JJuday said:


> I put little stock in either term "expert" or "professional". JJuday



1+....Around here we say an expert is any man who is far from home.

When you get farther from home , the B.S level goes up exponentially.


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## StihlyinEly (Jul 18, 2010)

doobie57z said:


> I'm not an arborist, but I would bet an arborists fee I could get this down in an hour, my feet never leaving the ground.



Hey, that's my old pole pruner! I wondered where it got to.   

I'll second the idea of re-evaluating after every cut or two. Also, the whole situation would need a careful evaluation once a person got to the site. Peter's pictures give an excellent perspective, but the Internet is the very definition of long distance. 

I also second the sentiment that you don't have to be a pro in many areas of expertise to get a job done well. That being said, this particular situation ain't rocket surgery or brain science. 

Oh, and I'm getting so much guff over this because a couple so-called pros won't think out of the box. No worries, mates.


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## oldirty (Jul 18, 2010)

doobie57z said:


> I'm not an arborist, but I would bet an arborists fee I could get this down in an hour, my feet never leaving the ground.



i'll take that bet with a homeowner pos pole saw like that. double the bet saying you pinch that thing too.

i love you guys trying to defend each other. listen, you may not be complete idiots all the time but when you start using ladders and chainsaws and doing some of these suggestions you offer each other someone is going to get hurt.

anyone of of you guys ever finish a tree job that the homeowner has killed himself attempting to do on their own?


my question for the op is why post a how to question relating to treework in the firewood pile of this site. its called arboristsite not firewoodsite. none of these guys are going to be able to give you the right answer.


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## smokinj (Jul 18, 2010)

oldirty said:


> i'll take that bet with a homeowner pos pole saw like that. double the bet saying you pinch that thing too.
> 
> i love you guys trying to defend each other. listen, you may not be complete idiots all the time but when you start using ladders and chainsaws and doing some of these suggestions you offer each other someone is going to get hurt.
> 
> ...




Lol you have gave advise of your own "climb the tree and 3 cuts on the high side" Simple but advice non the less....You meen well I can see that, but a cable and big Cat would do this job with out any saw or risk at all...I would bet it took lees time to do the tree than this threade! Mini exagavtors 179.00 for the weekend. Thats not what I would do but the safest way to do it even if your a climber.


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## Burvol (Jul 18, 2010)

OK! I'm back to pile on, kiss my azz lol. 

Everyone that loves to rub one out to a chainsaw collection would be in this business if they could handle it 

There you go


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## doobie57z (Jul 18, 2010)

oldirty said:


> i'll take that bet with a homeowner pos pole saw like that. double the bet saying you pinch that thing too.
> 
> i love you guys trying to defend each other. listen, you may not be complete idiots all the time but when you start using ladders and chainsaws and doing some of these suggestions you offer each other someone is going to get hurt.
> 
> ...


second cut i would cut up, from underneath, relying on the afforementioned split limb to let the rest of the tree down. I love you " So called professionals" denigrating people who dare to do for themselves, what you do for money.
Feeling unneeded and unloved are we, mr. oldirty? The only " tree professional" I've seen quoted my elderly father a price, sent a bunch of illegals with chainsaws, the cherry picker and chipper drove by, so they drove through the yard also, (did no work, just drove through) , and then the ********** sent him a bill for 3x the estimate. "Buh,buh,man lift, buh ,buh chipper, " And of course" but your insurance". But the drama of"anyone of of you guys ever finish a tree job that the homeowner has killed himself attempting to do on their own?" sure makes for some good beer goggle stories down at the "Dew Drop Inn"


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## tex (Jul 18, 2010)

Burvol said:


> Everyone that loves to rub one out to a chainsaw collection would be in this business if they could handle it
> 
> There you go



Wow! That took an unexpected turn for the worse.


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## JJuday (Jul 18, 2010)

Uhhhhhhhhh ohhhhhhhhh, I'm telling Ma'! 

Well Oldirty, if this is the retard wood cutter forum what is a well learned, well traveled Rhodes Scholar like yourself doing here? I'd hate for US morons to lower your IQ just by being in our presence. 

Go kick rocks. JJuday


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## angelo c (Jul 18, 2010)

OK I've been watching this thread with great anxiety. I have one question for the "yes- ladder" group...would the tree be cut out faster with a Husqvarna or a Stihl. I'm seeing this "yes-ladder" ..."no freaking way- ladder" thing as a HUsky minded argument. Surely anyone with a sound mind and a Tractor would never use a ladder and a Husky....

Game on...

Oh and the one about the "homeowner pruner" that was cute too. You guys are great fun !!!


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## Burvol (Jul 18, 2010)

tex said:


> Wow! That took an unexpected turn for the worse.



AH come on and have some fun don't be a stick in the mud. Lots of folks on here love their saws more than their wive's thighs. Kinda makes me sick at times


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## cantoo (Jul 18, 2010)

I hope some of you self proclaimed pros use a taxi to get around, wouldn't want you risking your life without a professional behind the wheel. Come on do you really think this is that dangerous of a tree? The guy is asking for advice before he starts and maybe just maybe he is trying to build a rep here by asking a few questions here and there and fitting in. No wonder a bunch of us hardly ever post. I have pics and methods that I would love to share with people here but maybe it just isn't worth it. Does this site have a Professional Firewood forum these pros can go to? :greenchainsaw:


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## Burvol (Jul 18, 2010)

cantoo said:


> I hope some of you self proclaimed pros use a taxi to get around, wouldn't want you risking your life without a professional behind the wheel. Come on do you really think this is that dangerous of a tree? The guy is asking for advice before he starts and maybe just maybe he is trying to build a rep here by asking a few questions here and there and fitting in. No wonder a bunch of us hardly ever post. I have pics and methods that I would love to share with people here but maybe it just isn't worth it. Does this site have a Professional Firewood forum these pros can go to? :greenchainsaw:



That was kind of my point, yawn.....not that scary, but everyone wants to make a mountain out of a mole hill and be wankers. I just pile on cause' I can't believe people get their panties bunched up so easily. WOW indeed


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## redprospector (Jul 18, 2010)

Geez, come on. Somebody cut that damn hanger already, would ya.

Andy


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## peterc38 (Jul 18, 2010)

ts39136 said:


> Where is the OP? Oh, did you scare off another one?




No, I'm still here. Went away for the weekend and wasn't near a computer.

Anyway, thanks to all that responded. A lot of good ideas and possibly a few shaky ones. Two things I'm not going to do is climb up the tree and cut it or try to cut from a ladder. To those that cut from a ladder, all the power to you but that ain't for me.

Right now I like the idea of renting a pole saw, cutting just above the hang up, then cutting the left fork, then trying to pull it out with my 4WD pickup to get the rest of it on the ground.


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## JJuday (Jul 18, 2010)

peterc38 said:


> No, I'm still here. Went away for the weekend and wasn't near a computer.
> 
> Anyway, thanks to all that responded. A lot of good ideas and possibly a few shaky ones. Two things I'm not going to do is climb up the tree and cut it or try to cut from a ladder. To those that cut from a ladder, all the power to you but that ain't for me.
> 
> Right now I like the idea of renting a pole saw, cutting just above the hang up, then cutting the left fork, then trying to pull it out with my 4WD pickup to get the rest of it on the ground.



Sounds like a good plan. Please make sure to cut with a friend or family member. Two set of eyes are better than one. Good luck, let us know how it turns out. JJuday


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## BryanEx (Jul 18, 2010)

Be sure to post the results Peter. After 7 pages of suggestions and debate we'll need another 7 of critiques and debate. opcorn:


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## unclemoustache (Jul 18, 2010)

When someones personal knowledge is lacking, they gather information to help them make the decision. Here at Arboristsite, there are idiots like myself who only give silly answers, and there are divine immortals like Olddirty who have infinate knowledge of everything. The rest give advice according to their own personal knowledge, experience and training.

The OP is not so stupid as to take the first piece of advice that comes along - he listens to it all and decides what's best for himself to do, and he does it. Sheesh, some of you act like it's a felony to give advice unless it matches exactly with your own.


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## JJuday (Jul 19, 2010)

unclemoustache said:


> When someones personal knowledge is lacking, they gather information to help them make the decision. Here at Arboristsite, there are idiots like myself who only give silly answers, and there are divine immortals like Olddirty who have infinate knowledge of everything. The rest give advice according to their own personal knowledge, experience and training.
> 
> The OP is not so stupid as to take the first piece of advice that comes along - he listens to it all and decides what's best for himself to do, and he does it. Sheesh, some of you act like it's a felony to give advice unless it matches exactly with your own.



Point well taken. As for Oldirty being as you say a "divine immortal", you are overdoing it. At best he's just another hairless primate like the rest of us trying to figure out the best approach to this job by way of a few pictures. No matter how good the pictures are and no matter how many of them get posted it's still anyone's guess. 

I lump infinite knowledge, undisputed truths, and absolute certainty into the same pile, pile 13. I hope no one here thinks they are too good for an accident. 

Unck, you're main point is spot on. JJuday


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## smokinj (Jul 19, 2010)

LOL "IT is what it is" Its a freken hanger thats about it!

Enjoy and be safe!


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## JJuday (Jul 19, 2010)

smokinj said:


> LOL "IT is what it is" Its a freken hanger thats about it!
> 
> Enjoy and be safe!



I'd be happy to have at that tree! But nooooooo, I gotta get them out of the swamp! JJuday


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## smokinj (Jul 19, 2010)

JJuday said:


> I'd be happy to have at that tree! But nooooooo, I gotta get them out of the swamp! JJuday



Mine come with houses garages and fences driveways sidewalks car trucks you name it where trying to avoid it. Wish some one would call with one like that....Never happens though!


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## Philbert (Jul 19, 2010)

unclemoustache said:


> The OP is not so stupid as to take the first piece of advice that comes along



*HEY!* I think that _I_ was the first advice to come along!!! (no , it's OK, it was RAMROD48, so no offense taken).

(Philbert)


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## fishercat (Jul 19, 2010)

*one addition to that recipe ........................*



JJuday said:


> Sounds like a good plan. Please make sure to cut with a friend or family member. Two set of eyes are better than one. Good luck, let us know how it turns out. JJuday



a cell phone!


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## fishercat (Jul 19, 2010)

*If I were you,..............*

I'd try to just pull it with the truck or a piece of equipment.

If that doesn't work,then I'd worry about getting a body near it with a saw.

If it was me,I'd get my climbing rope in the standing tree and hand just above the fallen tree and make my cuts.Not saying it's right,just saying that's what I'd do.

I think I was wrong once long ago.:hmm3grin2orange:


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## unclemoustache (Jul 20, 2010)

Philbert said:


> *HEY!* I think that _I_ was the first advice to come along!!! (no , it's OK, it was RAMROD48, so no offense taken).
> 
> (Philbert)



Funny! I hadn't thought of the offense my comment might make to the first advisor. Whups!


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## Burvol (Jul 20, 2010)

*Buzzard*



unclemoustache said:


> When someones personal knowledge is lacking, they gather information to help them make the decision. Here at Arboristsite, there are idiots like myself who only give silly answers, and there are divine immortals like Olddirty who have infinate knowledge of everything. The rest give advice according to their own personal knowledge, experience and training.
> 
> The OP is not so stupid as to take the first piece of advice that comes along - he listens to it all and decides what's best for himself to do, and he does it. Sheesh, some of you act like it's a felony to give advice unless it matches exactly with your own.



Old Dirty is the man, don't forget it. I have seen alot of his work. Good guy with a sense of humor too


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## Mike PA (Jul 20, 2010)

Burvol said:


> Old Dirty is the man, don't forget it. I have seen alot of his work. Good guy with a sense of humor too



Hard to forget it - he is willing to remind everyone of that opinion at a moments notice. Must be one of those people you've got to know to appreciate. If he is so good, why is he so unable to help? I've read too many posts where people need a little help, but are told to hire a pro! Sure, there are times when a pro may be needed, but I don't think that is the case with this.


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## JJuday (Jul 20, 2010)

fishercat said:


> a cell phone!



A cell phone dosen't always work, but my Dad does. I don't like to cut alone. You're just asking for it.


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## banshee67 (Jul 20, 2010)

... is this tree cut yet?

i would have had it bucked with my folding hand saw by now


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## fishercat (Jul 20, 2010)

*you have to admit..................*



smokinj said:


> Mine come with houses garages and fences driveways sidewalks car trucks you name it where trying to avoid it. Wish some one would call with one like that....Never happens though!



our job would as boring as Obama's presidency without obstacles.


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## fishercat (Jul 20, 2010)

*Uh oh!*



banshee67 said:


> ... is this tree cut yet?
> 
> i would have had it bucked with my folding hand saw by now



not another folding handsaw ninja from Jersey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:hmm3grin2orange:


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## smokinj (Jul 21, 2010)

fishercat said:


> our job would as boring as Obama's presidency without obstacles.



I reaken so, But when I hear the word easy or just a few hour job...I know its a monster silver maple with no where to drop and 90-110 hrs.


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## fishercat (Jul 21, 2010)

*well,you're probably right.*



smokinj said:


> I reaken so, But when I hear the word easy or just a few hour job...I know its a monster silver maple with no where to drop and 90-110 hrs.



My favorite is when the customer tells you over the phone how tall it is.They never seem to be close.


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## smokinj (Jul 21, 2010)

fishercat said:


> My favorite is when the customer tells you over the phone how tall it is.They never seem to be close.



The easier it sound the slower I am to get there.....lol Amazing what you see when you get there..My last est. was a blue spruce about 60ft tall and a wing span at the bottom was about 60ft....If there was anywhere to drop it, would have been 3 hours just to clear it for felling, but there wasnt even a 2 ft drop zone. I am not a climber but I know it just going to suck for who ever gets that one. (I know its not going to be me)


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## Philbert (Jul 25, 2010)

*Results*

FYI

The OP posted photos of the results on a different thread:

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=143626

Philbert


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