# how do i get stuff to land flat



## Remington0404 (Oct 24, 2006)

How do i get large limbs to land flat without springing? Seems like when I 
under cut 1/4th of the way through then go alittle bit farther out and top cut it only works like half the time. If i could become confident with landing stuff flat I would be a heck of alot faster at removing. rather than handeling and piecing larger limbs. I could just land them in whole pieces. 

Also anyone have any tips for getting logs to land flatt so they don't leave divits and flip outta control.


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## woodchux (Oct 24, 2006)

2 or 3 undercuts, 1 topcut


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## emr (Oct 24, 2006)

make your top cut closer to the trunk than your bottom cut. its safer too because your saw is less likely to catch on the falling limb.


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## elmnut (Oct 24, 2006)

Try adjusting the distance between under cut and top cut. On a removal, limbs up to about 4" in diameter try using just a cut from the top, when the cut is finished flip the butt end up(so the limb goes end over end) Yes you can do this and use two hands on the saw. With chunks make your notch about 70 degrees make your back cut, when the chunk is parallel to the ground flip itby pushing up on the under side just above where the notch was cut.(don't get your fingers caught in the notch) with some practice you can master landing wood and brush flat. Things like this are what seperates the men from the boys. Any one can remove a tree, not many can do a removal without leaving divots and holes. I used to have a foreman who would ask how many times you wanted to see the chunk flip before landing flat, 95% of the time he did it. The higher up you are the less force you need to exert on the piece. Try it on trees that don't have targets all over first. Cunks flip best when under 24" diameter, and 5-6' long. Long spruce limbs are hard to flip, so be careful. It is Awesome that you are concerned with technique and finesse. If you are ever looking for work let me know.


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## Remington0404 (Oct 24, 2006)

thank you very much i look forward to trying that stuff out


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## Bermie (Oct 25, 2006)

Getting stuff to land flat also depends on if its just chunks or it has brush on the ends as well as how high up you are.

A typical undercut/ outboard topcut (stepcut) will fall flat initially but if you are fairly high up and there is a quantity of leaves and stuff on the end then the branch will tend to fall butt first as the leaves slow down the tip. In that case, wedge cut underneath/topcut (sink cut) will allow the tip to fall down first, break off, then followed by the butt and if you gauge it right the butt will catch up with the tip by the time it hits the ground, flat voila!

On a horizontal (or nearly) branch that you're just chunking off the stepcut should do the trick, however as someone said, if there is a chance your saw will get caught it's best to bring your topcut inboard of the bottom cut. I had my 250 pulled out of my hands last week on a big piece of poinciana I was chunking out, it DOES happen! BUT when you do bring the topcut inboard sometimes it will hang the butt up momentarily and the piece can fall tip first, But if the butt is heavier then it will catch up (blah blah blah)  so....think twice cut once, practice where the drop zone doesn't matter see what works, for big bits and small bits, leaves and no leaves.

...and keep reading the posts, lots of info out there.


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## OTG BOSTON (Oct 25, 2006)

*Practice, Practice, Practice*

You're getting a lot of good advice here but some of it can be confusing and tough to understand.

Practice when you have plenty of room to fool around with. Or when the ground is frozen and you won't make as much damage.

I still remember the tree where I figured out how to throw a top. My foreman kept showing me and telling me and coaching me, and one day I just figured it out. 

Falling limbs can be directed or re-directed with very little force, it is just a matter of how and when you apply that force.

Getting limbs to lay flat is a matter of cutting FAST.


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## Climb020 (Oct 25, 2006)

OTG BOSTON said:


> Getting limbs to lay flat is a matter of cutting FAST.



I find this to be the most important part in the process. If the saw isn't really ripping then anything can happen. 

I try to make the tip land first if I am not quite sure if it will land flat. At least that way there aren't any marks left but gotta make sure that the branch is close to flat so it doesn't spring back up.


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## trevmcrev (Oct 27, 2006)

On a BIG lateral branch that youve got no hope of flipping you can make "wing cuts" on the sides after your undercut. Then your top cut just behind the undercut to release it. Having removed more hingewood the branch can "pop" off and land flat, if you get it right it will even push it out abit too. When it breaks out your left with a square hinge in the middle of the round branch. Works good on long fibred timbers that dont release well like Pine & Cypress etc.

Trev


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## Remington0404 (Oct 27, 2006)

thank u trev... i was actually experimenting with that today on a pine i was removing ... it works quite well.......... i did do some log flipping in the way elmnut; described on some 5 foot sections of the tree ...50/50 on getting the right amount of flips . on the other hand a maple i was removing where i was sending the logs down at firewood lenghs didn't turn out so well.... quite a few divits below the base and going out the two other leads masacured a little bush because the one section i pushed off held on.... sending it back against the tree which then bounced off the trunk sending it at the bush. atleast the home owner didn't care.. but i always think : what if that woulda been something important... i guess i learned to put a little front cut from now on


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## John Paul Sanborn (Oct 28, 2006)

Remington0404 said:


> i did do some log flipping in the way elmnut; described on some 5 foot sections of the tree ...50/50 on getting the right amount of flips




Jerry Beranek writes about the physics in his book. The ratio for distance to length of wood on a clean seperation is 18. Since how it comes will fuge it a little, thinking a 20:1 will help with developing the knack. People who are good at it can drop very long logs flat. I stay under 10 ft since I do not have the need/opportunity to practice.

Most of what we do is intuition based on a sound understanding of the physics involved. You cannot fight gravity. A hinge on a limb perpendicular (90*) to the earth will fail, one under 45* can be used to swing a limb past canopy and "targets of value" on the ground.

Though lets not get Kenny started on hinges :ialugh:


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## John Paul Sanborn (Oct 28, 2006)

Speaking of hinges, that was a 68 point word for me palying Scrabble with my lovely wife last night!


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## M.D. Vaden (Oct 28, 2006)

From my experience, and what I've seen with other climbers, is that experience will be your only real option.

The size and volume of leaves affects the fall. Whether the limb angled up, or was attached horizontal matters. How high it's attached is important.

So if you want to learn by experience - the only way to figure this out - start with the lowest limbs, and when you get the feel of it, start moving a little bit higher. It's a matter of feel.

The cuts are just the basis. Where you make the cuts are like Kindergarten and 1st grade basics. Practiciing it to get the feel for it, is like grades 2 through 12.

Many climbers give a small nudge, or withhold on the speed of the final cut to affect the drop.


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