# Neck Lanyard.......how many climbers use these? How did you build it? Thughts?



## smokey01 (Jan 17, 2013)

Just wondering how many climbers use a neck lanyard. Construction? Thoughts and precautions?
I use one to advance my Croll chest ascender and RW and I also find it handy to hang my throw line reels when I am in the tree.


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## Pelorus (Jan 17, 2013)

A bit leery, Smokey. Avoiding strangulation is a minor detail, I suppose.
I don't even like wearing a tie to a wedding.


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## smokey01 (Jan 17, 2013)

Pelorus said:


> ...I don't even like wearing a tie to a *wedding*.


Now there is a real risk of strangulation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Maybe too late, I think it already happened at that event.


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## KenJax Tree (Jan 17, 2013)

Nope i just keep it simple i couldn't imagine taking all those gadgets and trinkets in a tree with me.


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## smokey01 (Jan 17, 2013)

Couple I made and use.


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## TreeGuyHR (Jan 17, 2013)

I have to think that ANSI doesn't mention their use or forbids it. Seems to me only coaches should have a neck lanyard for their whistles, or birders for their binoculars. Seems safe for them -- but I'd be willing to bet one could find strangulation examples for them. (Leaving out murder cases).

But in a tree?:msp_confused: No thanks.


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## Zale (Jan 17, 2013)

Never used one. Never seen one. No use for one. You're over thinking it.


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## capetrees (Jan 17, 2013)

I don't even keep the strings in my hoodie! No way I'm putting something that looks un-breakawayable (sp?) around my neck with branches sometimes flying by me while in the tree. :msp_scared:


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## treemandan (Jan 17, 2013)

smokey01 said:


> Couple I made and use.



That would work better if you soaked it in gasoline. I use a set of army surplus suspenders on my saddle, they have spots to keep a beener or two. I like to stow the working end of a lowering line there.They are rigid and designed to hold a pack or a belt but clip right on to my saddle for 12 bucks. As with everybody else I don't like the idea of having a rope around my neck, in fact even having a necklace is out of the question.


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## TreeGuyHR (Jan 17, 2013)

With all due respect, this thread could be re-titled:


"Dumb-ass things I've done in trees that seemed like a good idea at the time"

How about this:

Branch walked out on a stout oak limb, tied in above (so far so good); 
put a lanyard around an upright side limb for stability, leaned away from it with a pole saw to make a cut, leaving a foot wedged in the crotch so I wouldn't slip(so far so good) -- but wait, its coming :msp_scared::msp_scared:

side limb suddenly tore off, I rotated around my wedged foot, and swung into the main trunk

Result: torn cartilage in my knee, wacked my head (no problem there, hard head)

The limb was around 2 1/2 inches thick, but originated as an epicormic sprout, so it was weakly attached.
Knee permanently ####ed, but so long as i don't twist it, it is fine for long periods of time; the orthopedist at the time said I might need a knee replacement! Split the cartilage sideways, like two pancakes stacked up, usually cracks radially, not in my case.


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## KenJax Tree (Jan 17, 2013)

TreeGuyHR said:


> With all due respect, this thread could be re-titled:
> 
> 
> "Dumb-ass things I've done in trees that seemed like a good idea at the time"
> ...



He don't climb trees its a pole with a lawn chair on top (seriously)


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## smokey01 (Jan 17, 2013)

TreeGuyHR said:


> With all due respect, this thread could be re-titled:
> 
> 
> "Dumb-ass things I've done in trees that seemed like a good idea at the time"
> ...



Ouch!!!!! I hope you will have a full recovery. Those knee injuries can be a real bugger later in life! 
I do hope you can post this in the Arboricultural Injuries and Fatalities section so that other don't miss your experience and have an opportunity to learn from your mistake.

*Question: Were you using a neck lanyard and how did that contribute to this accident???*


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## Gologit (Jan 17, 2013)

KenJax Tree said:


> He don't climb trees its a pole with a lawn chair on top (seriously)



That's okay. Everybody should do what they do best. In this case, it's pole with a white plastic chair on top.
And lots of toys and gadgets, most of which seem to have no practical application to tree work but might possibly make him feel better when he's sitting in his pole chair.

The word _poser_ comes to mind.


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## Nemus Talea (Jan 18, 2013)

Where did you get this idea?
May as well run a lathe with a neck tie. Perhaps work around around unshielded PTOs and chain drives on the farm wearing a loose, unbuttoned long sleeve shirt. No problem as long as you are careful and nothing goes wrong, yeah? Give some thought to how things can go wrong working a tree and the consequences of that noose getting snagged. A break away soft enough to protect your spine, larynx, soft tissues and prevent strangulation would no doubt eliminate its usefulness.
Loose that suicide machine.


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## Incomplete (Jan 18, 2013)

I get nervous just temporarily draping endless loops over my shoulder. Someone's brain needs to engage. It's not called the "safest" occupation in the world.


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## Incomplete (Jan 18, 2013)

TreeGuyHR said:


> The limb was around 2 1/2 inches thick, but originated as an epicormic sprout, so it was weakly attached.
> Knee permanently ####ed, but so long as i don't twist it, it is fine for long periods of time; the orthopedist at the time said I might need a knee replacement! Split the cartilage sideways, like two pancakes stacked up, usually cracks radially, not in my case.



Thanks for sharing. I will now be terrified of ALL seemingly safe branches. I think I will invest in one of those neck crainer 50 foot pole saws.


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## TreeGuyHR (Jan 18, 2013)

smokey01 said:


> Ouch!!!!! I hope you will have a full recovery. Those knee injuries can be a real bugger later in life!
> I do hope you can post this in the Arboricultural Injuries and Fatalities section so that other don't miss your experience and have an opportunity to learn from your mistake.
> 
> *Question: Were you using a neck lanyard and how did that contribute to this accident???*



Should not have put my foot there; if I hadn't wedged my foot in a crotch, I would have merely fallen off the limb and wacked the trunk -- and that would have been a lot better. Now, a neck lanyard tied to .... what... would do what?


Since then, I have learned to make the friction under my feet increase by having my life line at an angle overhead instead of directly overhead; I now can also walk up near vertical side trunks that I used to struggle with. Same principle branch walking -- facing the limb at a right angle, make sure your lifeline is overhead and on the far side -- now just lean back and enjoy a stroll!

You can tell when a climber hasn't figured out how to use his feet, when he "does the worm", trying to shinny up side trunks and grabbing at stubs or small limbs and trying to set a lanyard to get a breather. Why bother tiring yourself all out when you can walk? If what you are climbing is near vertical, you need your rope going at a tangent to what you are climbing so you can lean back and walk up the far side, batman style. Of course, you want your lifeline above the height of your destination, but by that time there are likely to be side limbs you can use.


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## sir_nick2 (Jan 18, 2013)

I don't see a problem with it as i climb full srt on a uni and i can see the use for one. Just make sure it is break away and keep it tucked away when not being used. Don't listen to the negativity and learn your own way to climb, glad i never listened to it or i'd still be Ddrt on a prussik like a retard


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## Nemus Talea (Jan 18, 2013)

treemandan said:


> That would work better if you soaked it in gasoline. I use a set of army surplus suspenders on my saddle, they have spots to keep a beener or two. I like to stow the working end of a lowering line there.They are rigid and designed to hold a pack or a belt but clip right on to my saddle for 12 bucks. As with everybody else I don't like the idea of having a rope around my neck, in fact even having a necklace is out of the question.



H or Y style ALICE suspenders, I use em on occasion. Mod those for your croll. Pg. 94 of the 2012 Sherrill master catalog has an illustration using webbing and a delta link to mount a croll. Put in a slider from an old duffel bag strap to adjust for different weight clothes. Split ring from a key chain fob could be a breakaway if desired.
Thing with suspenders and straps high on the body, even flat and not encircling the neck, they grab stuff that otherwise would brush past. Had an apple twig snake along a suspender strap and try to remove my eye. Foreign matter is always trying to jump in our eye sockets. Somethings increase the likelihood.
Office workers have breakaways on their ID lanyards... lets think about this.


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## Nemus Talea (Jan 18, 2013)

No one understood treeguy? He locked a body part and paid a heavy price when the unplanned and unseen came to visit. Sometimes a structure failure, maybe a slip, wildlife, wet glove, bad angle, ice, poor climb plan, unseen hazard... 
Imagine a sudden drop or wild swing and a loop around the neck catches a stub.


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## smokey01 (Jan 18, 2013)

sir_nick2 said:


> I don't see a problem with it as i climb full srt on a uni and i can see the use for one. Just make sure it is break away and keep it tucked away when not being used. Don't listen to the negativity and learn your own way to climb, glad i never listened to it or i'd still be Ddrt on a prussik like a retard



G'Day,
Tucking it away when not in use is some good advise. I should do better at putting my visor down on the helmet as well. You Aussies always are one of the sharper tools in the shed. It is elastic and would probably leave a pretty good hickey if you tired to hang yourself with it but other than that, not much of a threat. 
Don't much listen to all the negativity any more, it is kind of like being around a fault finding mother-in-law, you learn to take the good with the bad. 
No worries mate :msp_biggrin:


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## treemandan (Jan 18, 2013)

Can you use this for a tie in point? I dunno- " neck lanyard"- go ahead and sound it out, sounds like pain, some kind of weird sex thing. And to think of it I do believe you could have just bought one at the freaking sporting goods store for a dollar instead of using 20k tensile stable braid to fabricate this thing. 
Now you are allright with me , I am only busting yer balls fer fun and while the whole " neck lanyard" thing is just to much for a twisted mind like mine to ignore I gotta say I do believe the concept is a no no in the industry and I think one of these days its gonna get caught on something and rip yer head off or at least leave you wishing it had. Even those shoelace key chains seem a bad idea to me in this day and age. And everybody else is just having fun with you so please don't go getting all old and ornery all set to do something somebody that somebody told you was a bad idea, I know that is fun to do but this is not something to wear in any capacity really but this equipment sure is interesting to mess with huh? Just don't go using yer 12 gauge to set a line OK? And I will tell you something else: while I admit that an AR-15 is one hell of great toy I also admit that it is only that. A guy needs one of them like he needs a lanyard around his neck.


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## treemandan (Jan 18, 2013)

Nemus Talea said:


> H or Y style ALICE suspenders, I use em on occasion. Mod those for your croll. Pg. 94 of the 2012 Sherrill master catalog has an illustration using webbing and a delta link to mount a croll. Put in a slider from an old duffel bag strap to adjust for different weight clothes. Split ring from a key chain fob could be a breakaway if desired.
> Thing with suspenders and straps high on the body, even flat and not encircling the neck, they grab stuff that otherwise would brush past. Had an apple twig snake along a suspender strap and try to remove my eye. Foreign matter is always trying to jump in our eye sockets. Somethings increase the likelihood.
> Office workers have breakaways on their ID lanyards... lets think about this.



Yes, they are a little bulky and they change the dynamics of the job. It is easier to strap on my spikes since they hold up my saddle instead of cinching the waist buckle. I am constantly adjusting them while climbing either to loosen so I can reach over my head or to tighten to pull my saddle of my ass. If I am climbing without spikes I usually don't use them. I don't use a chest ascender, it is nice to keep a beener there to quickly stow a line.


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## smokey01 (Jan 19, 2013)

TreeGuyHR said:


> .... put a lanyard around an upright side limb for stability, leaned away..





TreeGuyHR said:


> Since then, I have learned to make the friction under my feet increase by having my life line at an angle overhead instead of directly overhead; I now can also walk up near vertical side trunks ....
> ...... you need your rope going at a tangent to what you are climbing so you can lean back and walk up the far side, batman style.


Hey TrreeGuyHR, I see you are in Hood River, great place, grew up in Portland, loved skiing Mt. Hood. You are lucky to be there.
Still trying to understand completely how you hurt yourself and learn from your experience.
Can you explain a couple of things to me.... increasing the friction under your feet, and going at a tangent? 
Also, where was the branch you put your lanyard on and where did you position your lanyard on that branch?

Hope you are doing well.
Thanks


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## Carburetorless (Jan 19, 2013)

They gave Jack Kevorkian 10 to 25 for peddling #### like that.


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## smokey01 (Jan 22, 2013)

When I first saw it used I thought the same thing as many here until I learned more about it. Now I use it all the time and find it extremely useful for my ascent and also holding my throw line rewind when I am setting up a new line in the tree.
I have learned from other climbers how to use it for tending the Rope Wrench during an ascent as well. 
Thanks for the discussion as I learned a couple of things here. 
Tucking it under my shirt when not in use so I don't get face slapped and another option as in this video. 
SRT: DB Tree Rope Walker Kit - YouTube

I built mine after the design used by Joe Harris and Scott Sharpe of ATRAES (Arborist and Height Safety Equipment) and Vtio.
Demonstrated in this videoATRAES MicroFrog SRT System - YouTube
Photo http://www.atraes.com.au/images/P/MicroFrog-01.jpg

I used about 3 feet of 2mm elastic cord that will stretch to 2 to 3 times that size if needed. Tied with a double fisherman's and dressed with shrink tubing. The sheath webbing is from an ID lanyard purchased from a office store.
Risk assessment: You could probably get a good slap if it was pulled over your head.

I have a system similar to ATRAES MicroFrog set-up but use the Unicender in place of the hand ascender for quick changeover to descent.
3 minute Video with a boomerang toss at Tree climbing using a neck elastic to tend the chest ascender and assist in line placement - YouTube 
or longer 12 minute video at Using neck elastic to tend Unicender - YouTube

As with everything tree climbing it what works best for you. 

The 2mm elastic cord is difficult to find locally and I ended up purchasing about 100' online to save some time driving around. I will never use that much so if anyone is interested I would be happy to send you a few feet, no cost, just pm me your info and I will send it to you. (USA only)


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## sgreanbeans (Jan 22, 2013)

I was going to post something about this, but all I can do is shake my head and laugh.


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## TreeGuyHR (Jan 22, 2013)

smokey01 said:


> Hey TrreeGuyHR, I see you are in Hood River, great place, grew up in Portland, loved skiing Mt. Hood. You are lucky to be there.
> Still trying to understand completely how you hurt yourself and learn from your experience.
> Can you explain a couple of things to me.... increasing the friction under your feet, and going at a tangent?
> Also, where was the branch you put your lanyard on and where did you position your lanyard on that branch?
> ...



I have done most of my climbing in the last four years. A combination of experience and conditioning has greatly improved my technique, although I am a bit stubborn and tend to rely too much on strength (another story there). 

The injury occurred because I wedged my foot in another, large fork in the big oak limb and also put a short lanyard around that upright side limb so I could get stable enough to work. The foot stayed behind when the smaller limb broke (well, for a long second or two :msp_scared:

What I mean about friction is changing my thinking to more of a rock climbing approach -- which emphasizes getting as much of the bottom of your foot on the surface you are climbing as you can. In a tree, you have the luxury of leaning back on your rope while also having a lanyard around the stem you are ascending (or the the limb you are walking out on). Then when you take the next step, the lanyard (already advanced) keeps you from sliding back on an angled or near-vertical or even vertical stem. We are talking about being in a multi-trunked tree here -- it is too exhausting on a single trunk, although I have used the "Batman" technique when I am going back into a tree, having left my life line in it on a pulley.

On a side limb when branch walking, the lanyard is mainly to keep you from swinging to the trunk if you lose your "foot grip". I usually climb with two steel core lanyards, a 12 and a 16 ft.; that way I can throw one or both around a limb or limbs (but not epicormic sprouts!) for stability when making a cut.

Of course, relying on foot friction works better on dry bark. You can still do it on pine, fir, or oak, but not something like birch or maple when wet. I try to avoid working in those trees when wet, as it is slower but can still be done. It means having to go up to your tie-in and then back down each side trunk from the top, if there aren't enough side limbs to work your way up from the middle or bottom by throwing a lanyard through one crotch after another and pulling yourself up. That is how I used to climb, dry or wet conditions.

I still rely solely on a Blakes, except for a high tie-in, in which case I will often set a line and climb it with a pair of jumars on webbing, and then switch to a second line to work.

I'll stop there...


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## beastmaster (Jan 23, 2013)

I climb SRT almost everyday. I experimented early on with a chest croll when I first started trying SRT. I tryed various ways to advance my croll. I had my best results with a small bungee hooked to the chin strap of my helmet then to the croll. In the end I found that whole system a pain in the rear and to gear intensive to use for a working method. I use the rads day in day out for my SRT. Even with that I hardly ever use the foot strap, preferring to footlock the rope on all but the longest ascends.


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## smokey01 (Mar 30, 2013)

sgreanbeans said:


> I was going to post something about this, but all I can do is shake my head and laugh.



Looks like Wesspur will be laughing too......all the way to the bank.


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## Zale (Mar 30, 2013)

For weekend warriors and newbies who are attracted by shiny things, they will probably sell some. As a production arborist, I would have no use for it. Too much gear to be dealing with.


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## capetrees (Mar 31, 2013)

Even on this, the holiest of Catholic days, I see Darwin was on the right track. 

Talk about thinning the herd.


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## TheJollyLogger (Mar 31, 2013)

Zale said:


> For weekend warriors and newbies who are attracted by shiny things, they will probably sell some. As a production arborist, I would have no use for it. Too much gear to be dealing with.





Spoken like a young buck. As a 44 yr old production arborist, I like my shiny things, they make my day easier.


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## Zale (Mar 31, 2013)

As a soon to be 48 year old production arborist, I still wouldn't use the system. Now the Wraptor is a different story. I could see using that type of system on the west coast climbing redwoods.


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