# My first climb job.



## swyman (Feb 17, 2012)

Well, came to the conclusion that I have to learn to climb to do this business right. Bid a job today and got that I will have to climb to remove a limb that I don't have access to from the truck. Is first limb about 25' and is the only limb that needs to be removed from that tree, not real huge but HO is worried about ice storms and protecting the house. Going to buy my equipment Monday from Treeman supply which is located close to me. Just happened to have received my 5 dvd basic trailning for tree climbers by TCIA. I am not an expert which is why I posted this here but the vids should get me safely in the tree and perform the task. I scheduled it later next week so I can practice in a nice Maple in the yard but am excited about learning this skill. I will take it very slow and safe and will bring a level of safety to my operation. Any pointers will be welcome, I know this is very dangerous territory for a newb climber but feel up to the challenge. Are TCIA's vids good? Just watched the rigging for removal set and learned some great tricks that will speed up production and safety.


----------



## Blakesmaster (Feb 17, 2012)

While you seem a decent enough guy I take big issue with you charging people for a professional service when you don't know how to do it. I can hang sheetrock, and do it pretty well, but I wouldn't ever try to charge someone professional rates for my work. It's very unethical.


----------



## Zale (Feb 17, 2012)

Good luck. Double and triple check all your knots. Take small pieces and make sure there is another person with you. You might want to practice before you hit the job site. If the client looks out and sees you fumbling around looking confused, it might not make the best impression. Also, make sure you have a cell phone if you nee to call 911. Thats not a joke.


----------



## KenJax Tree (Feb 17, 2012)

I remember my first day off the ground but i was working for a company of experienced guys if i got into a jam and i wasn't alone in the tree by myself,just rememeber go slow,double check,know what is below,and once you make a cut its too late to fix it if its wrong and it only takes one mistake. good luck.


----------



## KenJax Tree (Feb 17, 2012)

I forgot to say pick up a copy of Jeff Jepson's Climbing Companion book its got a lot of good info.


----------



## bushwacker101 (Feb 17, 2012)

*First Climb*

I can really appreciate your drive to learn, and sure others may agree with me here but when it comes to climbing, rigging, using a saw aloft and understanding the process cant be taught just watching dvds and reading a book alone. Reading and watching are totally different than actually applying it in a real senerio. If you dont understand the proper hitchs, knots, when and where to use them, dynamics of a tree, etc, etc, could have deadly results. I would recommend looking for someone to teach and help you with this. LOW AND SLOW, learn your rigging, know how it work's how it feels, react's, you need to be able to trust it with your life so know it front to back!!! I have a up and comer that works for me and I always tell him its better to panic or have mess-up only 2 feet off the ground than 30' in the air! IMO 

Be Safe

Ben
Bushwacker Tree Removal


----------



## superjunior (Feb 17, 2012)

That's no joke about the cell phone - to this day I make sure mine is right by our work and everyone knows where its at, ya never know. 

Since you've been doing tree work out of your bucket I'll assume you do know your basic knots. I would get comfortable with a good climbing hitch like the tautline on the ground first before going aloft. Trust your gear, put your weight back in the saddle and trust it - you won't get much done and look awful silly bear hugging the trunk with your knees knocking. Pick a good TIP as close to directly above where you'll be working will make things a lot easier on you. How were you planning on ascending the tree?


----------



## Buzzkill (Feb 17, 2012)

In the last year I've also moved to doing some minor climbing, have always used a bucket truck previously. Just think all the permutations of movement out before you cut, A bucket gives you the option of dropping to your knees and having a shield (not that this is recommended). The first time you get to have your face in kissing distance of an opening backcut really makes you think about the leeway a bucket gives you. So make sure you think about that leeway first. I'm sure you understand that playing with chainsaws at heights with thousands of pounds of wood falling is inherently dangerous. Be safe and post a pic.


----------



## swyman (Feb 17, 2012)

Blakesmaster said:


> While you seem a decent enough guy I take big issue with you charging people for a professional service when you don't know how to do it. I can hang sheetrock, and do it pretty well, but I wouldn't ever try to charge someone professional rates for my work. It's very unethical.



The HO told me he had 3 companies just leave his property and not give.the bid which is suprising. I let him know that this would be my first climb and that I am not going to use any spikes and he was very pleased. I never mislead him in any way and it will be a nice fairly.simple job and will take my time. My rates for this job were not a huge profit but not lowballed either. I intend to be an honest, straight forward company to learn and go home in one piece everyday. Hope it gets.me somewhere someday.


----------



## swyman (Feb 17, 2012)

superjunior said:


> That's no joke about the cell phone - to this day I make sure mine is right by our work and everyone knows where its at, ya never know.
> 
> Since you've been doing tree work out of your bucket I'll assume you do know your basic knots. I would get comfortable with a good climbing hitch like the tautline on the ground first before going aloft. Trust your gear, put your weight back in the saddle and trust it - you won't get much done and look awful silly bear hugging the trunk with your knees knocking. Pick a good TIP as close to directly above where you'll be working will make things a lot easier on you. How were you planning on ascending the tree?



SRT, have done a little in the past while confined space training. The instructor was my journeyman and while working together on midnights we would climb every night. He was crazy about it,.was when it was first being taught and.made mandatory in factories.


----------



## swyman (Feb 17, 2012)

Buzzkill said:


> In the last year I've also moved to doing some minor climbing, have always used a bucket truck previously. Just think all the permutations of movement out before you cut, A bucket gives you the option of dropping to your knees and having a shield (not that this is recommended). The first time you get to have your face in kissing distance of an opening backcut really makes you think about the leeway a bucket gives you. So make sure you think about that leeway first. I'm sure you understand that playing with chainsaws at heights with thousands of pounds of wood falling is inherently dangerous. Be safe and post a pic.



I may just use a handsaw, limb is maybe 20' and 5" dia at trunk.


----------



## Toddppm (Feb 17, 2012)

3 companies left without giving a bid? Were they scared ,can't climb or just not worth their time?


----------



## sgreanbeans (Feb 18, 2012)

When I first got in this biz, I tried to climb with out any training, bought the books, came here, met JPS. He told me one thing that changed it all. FIND A PRO TO TEACH YOU IN THE TREE. The books are great, but nothing, and I mean NOTHING can substitute a seasoned vet showing you the way of the Jedi. He can show you why that TIP is good and the other is bad, throw your lanyard this way, instead of that way. I had read all the basics and still was struggling. I asked around, trying to find out who "the man" was. Cranky old climber that used to run Davey. Bill was the best thing that could have happened to me in those days. Hard as a Marine DI and a worse disposition. He was a complete A-Hole to me, but I listened to every word. He spent a summer with me and it changed my whole outlook on the biz. He is the one that made me want to do things right. Not only with climbing, but tree care. 
I am sure that one of these guys on here are close to you, go hook up with them, give a day of work, in trade for some "hands on training" Then take that info to the park and practice, someone said to do that before you hit the job. Believe dat. It isn't hard to figure out if a climber knows what he is doing, even to the lay person.


----------



## swyman (Feb 18, 2012)

sgreanbeans said:


> When I first got in this biz, I tried to climb with out any training, bought the books, came here, met JPS. He told me one thing that changed it all. FIND A PRO TO TEACH YOU IN THE TREE. The books are great, but nothing, and I mean NOTHING can substitute a seasoned vet showing you the way of the Jedi. He can show you why that TIP is good and the other is bad, throw your lanyard this way, instead of that way. I had read all the basics and still was struggling. I asked around, trying to find out who "the man" was. Cranky old climber that used to run Davey. Bill was the best thing that could have happened to me in those days. Hard as a Marine DI and a worse disposition. He was a complete A-Hole to me, but I listened to every word. He spent a summer with me and it changed my whole outlook on the biz. He is the one that made me want to do things right. Not only with climbing, but tree care.
> I am sure that one of these guys on here are close to you, go hook up with them, give a day of work, in trade for some "hands on training" Then take that info to the park and practice, someone said to do that before you hit the job. Believe dat. It isn't hard to figure out if a climber knows what he is doing, even to the lay person.



Begging for anyone in area, will adjust my.schedule to yours if you would take the time. However.you would.w want to do it. I'm in Blissfield, MI. 15 miles North of Toledo, OH. I agree that this would be my.best bet IF someone could come up with a plan.


----------



## swyman (Feb 18, 2012)

Toddppm said:


> 3 companies left without giving a bid? Were they scared ,can't climb or just not worth their time?



Not sure, I guess if they could not get it by truck then they were not going to do it? It's a quick easy job, don't get it.


----------



## swyman (Feb 18, 2012)

Oh, there is no way I would.show up to the job without climbing a few trees. I scheduled the job for late in the week and will be climbing everyday before that. If I don't feel like I can do it I won't. Have to see how it goes but I feel this would be the perfect first time limb.


----------



## superjunior (Feb 18, 2012)

You'll be fine man its not like your attempting a monster removal over a house, everyone started somewhere. Good luck and be safe


----------



## Toddppm (Feb 18, 2012)

You're not going to try to do the job yourself are you?


----------



## Kottonwood (Feb 18, 2012)

I didn't read this whole thread but I gotta agree with Blakes on that first post. Take some ####### pride in your work... if you have tree work and a bucket truck hire a real arborist and learn from him. I am sick of watching you bucket babies butcher trees..... Just took down a nearly 100 year old elm that was doing fine until some bucket pansy "pruned" it..... he had hacked every leader to one tiny stick... first windstorm nearly every twig with a leaf bud on it came off... needless to say it didn't make it.


----------



## jefflovstrom (Feb 18, 2012)

At least the OP posted in the correct forum.
Jeff


----------



## Kottonwood (Feb 18, 2012)

I am really just ranting cuz I am pissed about that elm tree....

It is cool that you're learning to climb. I just hate the idea that owning a bucket truck makes you a tree man... I think it makes you a tree man about as much as it makes you a lineman. I just think climbing trees is something you should learn early in your career. It gives you a different relationship with the tree and tree work.... just my opinion

swyman, if you own a tree business but have never climbed a tree I am just making the assumption that you have never picked up a book about arboriculture or taken a class about how to properly maintain trees and neither has anyone on your crew. Am I wrong?


----------



## Blakesmaster (Feb 18, 2012)

swyman said:


> The HO told me he had 3 companies just leave his property and not give.the bid which is suprising. I let him know that this would be my first climb and that I am not going to use any spikes and he was very pleased. I never mislead him in any way and it will be a nice fairly.simple job and will take my time. My rates for this job were not a huge profit but not lowballed either. I intend to be an honest, straight forward company to learn and go home in one piece everyday. Hope it gets.me somewhere someday.




Sorry dude, I don't see it. Maybe I need to move to Missouri because around here if I told a customer that I'd never climbed a tree before they would laugh me off their property. 3 tree services turned down the job? Why? I'll stick with my carpentry analogy, if you called some guy to build you a set of stairs for your porch and he shows up, and admits to never having done that before, would you hire him?


----------



## tree MDS (Feb 18, 2012)

Blakesmaster said:


> Sorry dude, I don't see it. Maybe I need to move to Missouri because around here if I told a customer that I'd never climbed a tree before they would laugh me off their property. 3 tree services turned down the job? Why? I'll stick with my carpentry analogy, if you called some guy to build you a set of stairs for your porch and he shows up, and admits to never having done that before, would you hire him?



Easy on the poor guy blakes... I thought this forum was for beginners and new to the business types, what's a salty old veteran tree dog like you doing in here picking on the poor guy? Live and let live bro!


----------



## swyman (Feb 18, 2012)

PatriotTreeCO said:


> I am really just ranting cuz I am pissed about that elm tree....
> 
> It is cool that you're learning to climb. I just hate the idea that owning a bucket truck makes you a tree man... I think it makes you a tree man about as much as it makes you a lineman. I just think climbing trees is something you should learn early in your career. It gives you a different relationship with the tree and tree work.... just my opinion
> 
> swyman, if you own a tree business but have never climbed a tree I am just making the assumption that you have never picked up a book about arboriculture or taken a class about how to properly maintain trees and neither has anyone on your crew. Am I wrong?



I have a retired former tree care owner that was in the business for 20 years that view with me on every job. He was not a climber but hired one when he needed. He would find them while in jail or at AA meetings. I will that he has helped.me greatly but is not as professional as I want to become.


----------



## Blakesmaster (Feb 18, 2012)

tree MDS said:


> Easy on the poor guy blakes... I thought this forum was for beginners and new to the business types, what's a salty old veteran tree dog like you doing in here picking on the poor guy? Live and let live bro!



Blah blah blah. Hugs and kisses all around, etc. Want me to pat his back and say "good job, buddy"? He seems a nice dude, upfront and honest and all that, but I'm trying to understand his reasoning, that's all.


----------



## formationrx (Feb 18, 2012)

*mr immortal...*

....this whole thing sounds bad....DVDs !? what? come on? really?....you got a bucket and cant climb? thats bad mojo...it does not make any sense to me..... have someone experienced teach you..... most people who die from a fall in this business are not high off the ground.... life is far too precious to risk on crazy stunts....


----------



## Kottonwood (Feb 18, 2012)

swyman said:


> i have a retired former tree care owner that was in the business for 20 years that view with me on every job. He was not a climber but hired one when he needed. He would find them while in jail or at aa meetings. I will that he has helped.me greatly but is not as professional as i want to become.



ha!


----------



## tree MDS (Feb 18, 2012)

swyman said:


> I have a retired former tree care owner that was in the business for 20 years that view with me on every job. He was not a climber but hired one when he needed. He would find them while in jail or at AA meetings. I will that he has helped.me greatly but is not as professional as I want to become.



How old are you man? Why don't you just get a job working for a decent company for a while? I'm pretty sure this has been mentioned to you, but I must have missed the answer. 

This mentor of yours sounds like a joke.. either that or you're screwing with us.


----------



## jefflovstrom (Feb 18, 2012)

tree MDS said:


> Easy on the poor guy blakes... I thought this forum was for beginners and new to the business types, what's a salty old veteran tree dog like you doing in here picking on the poor guy? Live and let live bro!



Wow, you actually sound a good guy rather than a blathering know it all! Nice to see some restraint in the 101 forum. Maybe someday I will be the Moderator of this forum. May need some since they will likely get a little harassed here to. 
Jeff


----------



## jefflovstrom (Feb 18, 2012)

swyman said:


> I have a retired former tree care owner that was in the business for 20 years that view with me on every job. He was not a climber but hired one when he needed. He would find them while in jail or at AA meetings. I will that he has helped.me greatly but is not as professional as I want to become.



I am not trying to start anything, but a retired tree care owner for 20 years don't come close to a guy that has 35 years experience and still can not retire for another 15 years!
Jeff


----------



## tree MDS (Feb 18, 2012)

jefflovstrom said:


> Wow, you actually sound a good guy rather than a blathering know it all! Nice to see some restraint in the 101 forum. Maybe someday I will be the Moderator of this forum. May need some since they will likely get a little harassed here to.
> Jeff



Don't let a couple of posts fool ya jeff, I'm still the same old blathering know it all!


----------



## Saw Dust Smoken (Feb 18, 2012)

*small jobs*

A lot of big companys wont do small jobs. $300 or under $500 they wont go out. Not enough profit for big compay. Three buz owner here wont get out of the bucket to trim or removals. Get out there and climb!


----------



## Nailsbeats (Feb 18, 2012)

If you don't or haven't climbed then you aren't a real treeman. It's a dead give away to someone's skill level. Think about that when you think about mentors.

And I don't care how many degrees someone hangs on their wall, how many people they boss around, how many trees they look at in one day, how big their company is, or what their bottom line last year was....


----------



## MackenzieTree (Feb 18, 2012)

Im kinda new but before touching any tree i learned to climb first, my uncle is an lic arborist and has done it his whole life and only climbs doesnt own any bucket trucks thats the way to do it even though trucks are needed in some jobs. Climbing is getting a feel for tree care and maintaince and a different knowledge alltogether.


----------



## jefflovstrom (Feb 18, 2012)

MackenzieTree said:


> Im kinda new but before touching any tree i learned to climb first, my uncle is an lic arborist and has done it his whole life and only climbs doesnt own any bucket trucks thats the way to do it even though trucks are needed in some jobs. Climbing is getting a feel for tree care and maintaince and a different knowledge alltogether.




Jeff


----------



## tree MDS (Feb 18, 2012)

jefflovstrom said:


> Jeff



You're just not opening your ears enough to the youth of our trade Jeff...

I don't know how you think you're gonna make moderator of this forum with that attitude! Just saying.


----------



## VA-Sawyer (Feb 18, 2012)

I hope it's a troll, cause if not............. just the thought, gives me a headache.

Rick


----------



## VA-Sawyer (Feb 18, 2012)

There is a thread over in the PRO section about a guy trying to find a good climber, maybe I should suggest that he check in jails and at AA meetings.
Rick


----------



## swyman (Feb 18, 2012)

Good thread gone bad. Posted with good intent in the proper forum and kind of blew up. That's ok, I'll be fine and there was some to learn from this. Wow? Admit might not have best crew but will make it. Had a good starting year and getting off to a better one this year. You guys on this forum are the only reason I would even think of learning to climb and thank you for it. Maybe some looking out for my safety so I hope I don't get hurt for the bashers to say I told you so. Stay tuned, will let you know.


----------



## 2treeornot2tree (Feb 18, 2012)

Post a before and after pic of the job.


----------



## jefflovstrom (Feb 18, 2012)

2treeornot2tree said:


> Post a before and after pic of the job.



Yeah! We like pic's! 
Jeff


----------



## BlackOakTreeServ (Feb 18, 2012)

swyman said:


> Good thread gone bad. Posted with good intent in the proper forum and kind of blew up. That's ok, I'll be fine and there was some to learn from this. Wow? Admit might not have best crew but will make it. Had a good starting year and getting off to a better one this year. You guys on this forum are the only reason I would even think of learning to climb and thank you for it. Maybe some looking out for my safety so I hope I don't get hurt for the bashers to say I told you so. Stay tuned, will let you know.



sawman, you will do just fine, its just one branch, just make sure and use 2 TIP's (2 tie in points) when your up there.
If branch is 5", just use hand saw, but make sure and bring up rigging rope, put it above branch to be lowerd down
and make sure you have a ground man there on the rig rope.

You didnt say what type of tree it is...if its a fragrance cedar, be carefull, branchs snap easy, make sure and get rope on a good size limb.


----------



## Carburetorless (Feb 19, 2012)

woodsman44 said:


> sawman, you will do just fine, its just one branch, just make sure and use 2 TIP's (2 tie in points) when your up there.
> If branch is 5", just use hand saw, but make sure and bring up rigging rope, put it above branch to be lowerd down
> and make sure you have a ground man there on the rig rope.
> 
> You didnt say what type of tree it is...if its a fragrance cedar, be carefull, branchs snap easy, make sure and get rope on a good size limb.



Lol, you posted that from your mobile; Didn't you?


----------



## pdqdl (Feb 19, 2012)

Blakesmaster said:


> Sorry dude, I don't see it. Maybe I need to move to Missouri because around here if I told a customer that I'd never climbed a tree before they would laugh me off their property...



I didn't realize that our local reputation reached that far. It's true; nobody asks for credentials around here.

Story: one day I was talking to one of my very best customers, along with her boss. They didn't seem to like my suggestions, and she said "Maybe we should call an arborist and see what they have to say". I pulled out my card and showed them my credentials.

I have been working for this company since 1985, and I have done all their tree work for the last 10 years. This is a property management company, and they own zillions of dollars worth of property.


----------



## superjunior (Feb 19, 2012)

VA-Sawyer said:


> There is a thread over in the PRO section about a guy trying to find a good climber, maybe I should suggest that he check in jails and at AA meetings.
> Rick



already checked the jails, aa meetings and even skid row where the homeless hang out...


----------



## VA-Sawyer (Feb 19, 2012)

superjunior said:


> already checked the jails, aa meetings and even skid row where the homeless hang out...



Sorry SJ, wasn't trying to step on your toes. I know you are the one that started the afore mentioned thread in the PRO section. I understand your problem, been trying to hire good help myself for almost two years now. Maybe I'm too picky, but I haven't yet resorted to checking such places for help.

Rick

Tried to send you a PM but your box is full.


----------



## tree md (Feb 19, 2012)

swyman said:


> Well, came to the conclusion that I have to learn to climb to do this business right. Bid a job today and got that I will have to climb to remove a limb that I don't have access to from the truck. Is first limb about 25' and is the only limb that needs to be removed from that tree, not real huge but HO is worried about ice storms and protecting the house. Going to buy my equipment Monday from Treeman supply which is located close to me. Just happened to have received my 5 dvd basic trailning for tree climbers by TCIA. I am not an expert which is why I posted this here but the vids should get me safely in the tree and perform the task. I scheduled it later next week so I can practice in a nice Maple in the yard but am excited about learning this skill. I will take it very slow and safe and will bring a level of safety to my operation. Any pointers will be welcome, I know this is very dangerous territory for a newb climber but feel up to the challenge. Are TCIA's vids good? Just watched the rigging for removal set and learned some great tricks that will speed up production and safety.



You need to hire a guy like me... Let's face it, there are plenty of professional services where the owner is not the professional... But they are usually professional enough to hire a professional...

I climb for $125 an hour... And I'm available if you can fit that in your bid.


----------



## tree md (Feb 19, 2012)

Oh yeah, and I have been known to trade out climbing services for bucket services... As well as other services... I guess I'm just a tree slut... :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## tree md (Feb 19, 2012)

tree MDS said:


> Easy on the poor guy blakes... I thought this forum was for beginners and new to the business types, what's a salty old veteran tree dog like you doing in here picking on the poor guy? Live and let live bro!



Yeah, you ####ing #####!!! :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## tree md (Feb 19, 2012)

jefflovstrom said:


> Wow, you actually sound a good guy rather than a blathering know it all! Nice to see some restraint in the 101 forum. Maybe someday I will be the Moderator of this forum. May need some since they will likely get a little harassed here to.
> Jeff



First you would have to learn how to climb Jeff! :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## tree md (Feb 19, 2012)

OK, sorry to be blunt but I have seen many come and many go here... I have known some here, who are successful owners now, since they started out doing line clearance... I have even seen Blakesy take off since nearly his first climb ( looked as so anyway) and seen him blossom, prosper and make me proud.

Dude, I don't think you will be here in another year or two. You will be another "arborist" who falls by the wayside and eats his bucket... Nothing personal, You're a good guy and all, I've just been in this business a long time and seen many come and go.


----------



## swyman (Feb 19, 2012)

tree md said:


> OK, sorry to be blunt but I have seen many come and many go here... I have known some here, who are successful owners now, since they started out doing line clearance... I have even seen Blakesy take off since nearly his first climb ( looked as so anyway) and seen him blossom, prosper and make me proud.
> 
> Dude, I don't think you will be here in another year or two. You will be another "arborist" who falls by the wayside and eats his bucket... Nothing personal, You're a good guy and all, I've just been in this business a long time and seen many come and go.



No offense taken md, you are always honest and to the point and enjoy your take on things. Will I be here in the future, time will tell. Enjoy the biz right now but I am getting older and going hard. 3-11:30pm at the factory then on road by 7am to cut trees. Nothing comes easy in life and I will give it hell as long as my health permits while I hope it's a long time. I would love to learn from you in person but plane tickets flying you back and forth would break me. Wife and 4 young children would not permit me to spend a summer with you. (if you'd take me in)


----------



## Blakesmaster (Feb 19, 2012)

tree md said:


> OK, sorry to be blunt but I have seen many come and many go here... I have known some here, who are successful owners now, since they started out doing line clearance... I have even seen Blakesy take off since nearly his first climb ( looked as so anyway) and seen him blossom, prosper and make me proud.
> 
> Dude, I don't think you will be here in another year or two. You will be another "arborist" who falls by the wayside and eats his bucket... Nothing personal, You're a good guy and all, I've just been in this business a long time and seen many come and go.



Thanks for the kind words, bud. This forum is a great place to learn from pros, books and dvds help too. I would be no where near as far along as I am today without being able to bounce my ideas, job pics, equipment purchases, etc. off guys like you. 

With that being said, having the basic knowledge of how this industry works is necessary, i.e. working for a good company for a few years, or hiring on a skilled climber to show you the ropes. Too many guys go out and buy an old, beat up bucket truck, write tree service on the side and usually end up doing far more harm than good in their local market.


----------



## treeclimber101 (Feb 19, 2012)

VA-Sawyer said:


> Sorry SJ, wasn't trying to step on your toes. I know you are the one that started the afore mentioned thread in the PRO section. I understand your problem, been trying to hire good help myself for almost two years now. Maybe I'm too picky, but I haven't yet resorted to checking such places for help.
> 
> Rick
> 
> Tried to send you a PM but your box is full.


Its not completely uncommon to see SUPERJ'S Box completely filled by tree workers


----------



## superjunior (Feb 19, 2012)

treeclimber101 said:


> Its not completely uncommon to see SUPERJ'S Box completely filled by tree workers



hey now..


----------



## tree md (Feb 19, 2012)

swyman said:


> No offense taken md, you are always honest and to the point and enjoy your take on things. Will I be here in the future, time will tell. Enjoy the biz right now but I am getting older and going hard. 3-11:30pm at the factory then on road by 7am to cut trees. Nothing comes easy in life and I will give it hell as long as my health permits while I hope it's a long time. I would love to learn from you in person but plane tickets flying you back and forth would break me. Wife and 4 young children would not permit me to spend a summer with you. (if you'd take me in)



Well, if it tells you anything than everyone I worked for when I was younger told me I'd never make it on my own as well. Funny, I am still in business long after a lot of them have closed up shop... And some are no longer even with us in this world.

I would try to contract a good climber on the jobs you need him for and learn from him.


----------



## swyman (Feb 19, 2012)

tree md said:


> Well, if it tells you anything than everyone I worked for when I was younger told me I'd never make it on my own as well. Funny, I am still in business long after a lot of them have closed up shop... And some are no longer even with us in this world.
> 
> I would try to contract a good climber on the jobs you need him for and learn from him.



I will ask the folks at treeman supply tomorrow when I go to pick up my equipment. I know there are some people on staff do some climbing, but I think it's just recreation, could still learn from them or they may have some local contacts for me.


----------



## swyman (Feb 20, 2012)

*Off the ground*

Went and bought my climbing gear and went out in the yard to try it out. I have a whole new respect for most of you folks that climb! I used a closed system with a blakes hitch and body thrusting. What an awesome workout! Went up about 20' 5 times which I know isn't much but I get the idea. Tried to footlock and that will take some practice. I need to keep practicing but is pretty cool. I bet you really sweat in the summer doing it in full gear. I only have an hour before my daughters b-ball game so going to head back out and re-crotch to something higher. More later... Did notice I should have bought the better harness but they didn't have my size (too big and too small) so I went with the cheaper one. Probably won't take it back to trade in will they being a safety device.


----------



## BlackOakTreeServ (Feb 20, 2012)

swyman said:


> Went and bought my climbing gear and went out in the yard to try it out. I have a whole new respect for most of you folks that climb! I used a closed system with a blakes hitch and body thrusting. What an awesome workout! Went up about 20' 5 times which I know isn't much but I get the idea. Tried to footlock and that will take some practice. I need to keep practicing but is pretty cool. I bet you really sweat in the summer doing it in full gear. I only have an hour before my daughters b-ball game so going to head back out and re-crotch to something higher. More later... Did notice I should have bought the better harness but they didn't have my size (too big and too small) so I went with the cheaper one. Probably won't take it back to trade in will they being a safety device.



A little harder than it looks...hmmm


----------



## swyman (Feb 20, 2012)

woodsman44 said:


> A little harder than it looks...hmmm



Not complaining, love the challenge


----------



## shooterschafer (Feb 20, 2012)

swyman said:


> Well, came to the conclusion that I have to learn to climb to do this business right. Bid a job today and got that I will have to climb to remove a limb that I don't have access to from the truck. Is first limb about 25' and is the only limb that needs to be removed from that tree, not real huge but HO is worried about ice storms and protecting the house. Going to buy my equipment Monday from Treeman supply which is located close to me. Just happened to have received my 5 dvd basic trailning for tree climbers by TCIA. I am not an expert which is why I posted this here but the vids should get me safely in the tree and perform the task. I scheduled it later next week so I can practice in a nice Maple in the yard but am excited about learning this skill. I will take it very slow and safe and will bring a level of safety to my operation. Any pointers will be welcome, I know this is very dangerous territory for a newb climber but feel up to the challenge. Are TCIA's vids good? Just watched the rigging for removal set and learned some great tricks that will speed up production and safety.



Youll be fine, I started out climbing with out any safety gear at all, i just felt comfortable in the tree. But I got wiser with age and started using safety gear. I have run bucket trucks and I tend to trust my ropes better than a piece of machinery. My god some of the people on here think they are the chit and must not remeber that they had to start out some where too.


----------



## Tom M. (Feb 23, 2012)

Blakesmaster said:


> While you seem a decent enough guy I take big issue with you charging people for a professional service when you don't know how to do it. I can hang sheetrock, and do it pretty well, but I wouldn't ever try to charge someone professional rates for my work. It's very unethical.



I used to think like this, but now I know that working for too little helps nobody. It creates resentment among your business peers. A job is a job, and the important part is that it gets done safely and well. You should always charge the going rate. A more experienced outfit will make more 'cause they are faster. Think about it: charging too little attracts poor clientele who will never be happy, charging too little doesn't cover your liability risk, doesn't make you a living, puts pressure on the newbie outfit to HURRY, resulting in unsafe conditions and a poor job, becoming fodder for you tree guys to ridicule them. I can be said that anyone who follows your ethical advice, Blakesmaster, just creates more people for you to make fun of. Nice little racket you got going.

Yeah, first post, I know:msp_tongue:

I've been around, but don't know much about tree work. I lurk on AS and pick up a nugget here and there. I'm 40, don't climb, currently work part time as a groundie, was a self-employed builder/carpenter for years, ruined my body, made some money, and now I do easier work out of my shop. I've met some real doosies in my working life, but some of you urban tree guys take the the self-aggrandizing cake! Congratulations.

Ya anyway, always charge the going rate...


----------



## tree md (Feb 24, 2012)

Tom M. said:


> I used to think like this, but now I know that working for too little helps nobody. It creates resentment among your business peers. A job is a job, and the important part is that it gets done safely and well. You should always charge the going rate. A more experienced outfit will make more 'cause they are faster. Think about it: charging too little attracts poor clientele who will never be happy, charging too little doesn't cover your liability risk, doesn't make you a living, puts pressure on the newbie outfit to HURRY, resulting in unsafe conditions and a poor job, becoming fodder for you tree guys to ridicule them. I can be said that anyone who follows your ethical advice, Blakesmaster, just creates more people for you to make fun of. Nice little racket you got going.
> 
> Yeah, first post, I know:msp_tongue:
> 
> ...



Well if you have been in this business for any amount of time you would realize that there are not many climbers out there who do not have a big ego. Just goes with the territory... We are a lot like cops in that regard. :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## swyman (Feb 24, 2012)

Job went well, had rope in the tree ready to go up and decided before I strap in I will see if my bucket could reach the tips from the drive. I missed judged the distance I could reach, got the tips and half the limb. Repositioned truck in the raid and was able to get the rest of it and all the suckers. Job went fantastic and HO now wants me to remove a 32" white oak. Tried to talk him into just taking some weight off some of the leaders but insisted to just have it taken out as his wife is concerned about the house. So will have to wait till the next episode for climbing. In the mean time I plan to trim my trees at home using nothing but rope. Will be a good to gain experience on my own stuff. Will post picks of my trees later.


----------



## Zale (Feb 24, 2012)

Glad to hear it went well for you. Going from removing one limb to a 32" white oak is a very big jump. Know your limitations. Be safe


----------



## sgreanbeans (Feb 24, 2012)

Tom M. said:


> I used to think like this, but now I know that working for too little helps nobody. It creates resentment among your business peers. A job is a job, and the important part is that it gets done safely and well. You should always charge the going rate. A more experienced outfit will make more 'cause they are faster. Think about it: charging too little attracts poor clientele who will never be happy, charging too little doesn't cover your liability risk, doesn't make you a living, puts pressure on the newbie outfit to HURRY, resulting in unsafe conditions and a poor job, becoming fodder for you tree guys to ridicule them. I can be said that anyone who follows your ethical advice, Blakesmaster, just creates more people for you to make fun of. Nice little racket you got going.
> 
> Yeah, first post, I know:msp_tongue:
> 
> ...



I think you missed his point. He was talking about the fact that someone portrays themselves as a pro, and is not. No offense to someone learning the ropes, but you shouldn't claim pro when you are still learning. Even if you are learning the right way, from a pro, you are still a student.


----------



## Saw Dust Smoken (Feb 24, 2012)

*stundent or pro*

From student to pro level - or any where in between. With moving\swinging limbs or logs around you. One wrong move could be your last. Stay sharp! Climb on..


----------



## jefflovstrom (Feb 24, 2012)

:tire:
Jeff


----------



## Tom M. (Feb 24, 2012)

sgreanbeans said:


> I think you missed his point. He was talking about the fact that someone portrays themselves as a pro, and is not. No offense to someone learning the ropes, but you shouldn't claim pro when you are still learning. Even if you are learning the right way, from a pro, you are still a student.



Nah, I didn't miss his point, I just don't agree with it.


----------



## jefflovstrom (Feb 25, 2012)

Tom M. said:


> Nah, I didn't miss his point, I just don't agree with it.



If you did not miss it, you should read it again!
Don't be stupid!
Jeff


----------



## Carburetorless (Feb 25, 2012)

jefflovstrom said:


> If you did not miss it, you should read it again!
> Don't be stupid!
> Jeff



I don't think he's worried about being stupid; How does disagreeing with what someone said equate to being stupid?

Isn't that a bit childish, to call someone stupid because they don't agree with you?

You guys have more to learn than he does.


----------



## jefflovstrom (Feb 25, 2012)

Carburetorless said:


> I don't think he's worried about being stupid; How does disagreeing with what someone said equate to being stupid?
> 
> Isn't that a bit childish, to call someone stupid because they don't agree with you?



Nope, it's stupid to disagree to something you don't know about.
Jeff


----------



## Carburetorless (Feb 25, 2012)

jefflovstrom said:


> Nope, it's stupid to disagree to something you don't know about.
> Jeff



So if I own MicrSoft Corp. you would be stupid to have an opinion about the way I do business?

Hmmmm, I kind of see your point.:msp_rolleyes:


----------



## Tree Pig (Feb 25, 2012)

tree md said:


> Well if you have been in this business for any amount of time you would realize that there are not many climbers out there who do not have a big ego. Just goes with the territory... We are a lot like cops in that regard. :hmm3grin2orange:



well you should see what its like when you combine the two.


----------



## tree MDS (Feb 25, 2012)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> well you should see what its like when you combine the two.



Yeah right, that is a pretty scary thought, a tree climber that's basically immune to the law. Jesus.


----------



## Bomber (Feb 25, 2012)

Carburetorless said:


> I don't think he's worried about being stupid; How does disagreeing with what someone said equate to being stupid?
> 
> Isn't that a bit childish, to call someone stupid because they don't agree with you?
> 
> You guys have more to learn than he does.



I disagree with 90% of your posts but I don't think your stupid. Ignorant would be a better word.


----------



## MackenzieTree (Feb 25, 2012)

tree MDS said:


> Yeah right, that is a pretty scary thought, a tree climber that's basically immune to the law. Jesus.



Would be cool though!!!


----------



## Tom M. (Feb 25, 2012)

It would be more entertaining to watch a cop be a climber's groundie, or vice versa.

Hey, looks like the new guy finished his job, got paid and the customer is happy. All without climbing. Is he a pro? At what?


----------



## Carburetorless (Feb 25, 2012)

Bomber said:


> I disagree with 90% of your posts but I don't think your stupid. Ignorant would be a better word.



Well I never listen to you anyway.:msp_biggrin:


----------



## VA-Sawyer (Feb 25, 2012)

That is the whole problem ! You don't listen to anybody, do you Clueless?

What we need is a big can of Carb cleaner!
Rick


----------



## Carburetorless (Feb 25, 2012)

VA-Sawyer said:


> That is the whole problem ! You don't listen to anybody, do you Clueless?
> 
> What we need is a big can of Carb cleaner!
> Rick



You're really cooking now aren't you? otstir:


----------



## swyman (Feb 25, 2012)

Tom M. said:


> It would be more entertaining to watch a cop be a climber's groundie, or vice versa.
> 
> Hey, looks like the new guy finished his job, got paid and the customer is happy. All without climbing. Is he a pro? At what?



That's why I posted this in the 101 forum


----------



## VA-Sawyer (Feb 25, 2012)

Carburetorless said:


> You're really cooking now aren't you? otstir:



There you go again Clueless..... Talking about cooking on a TREE forum.

Rick


----------



## Carburetorless (Feb 25, 2012)

VA-Sawyer said:


> There you go again Clueless..... Talking about cooking on a TREE forum.
> 
> Rick



No man, I'm talking about how full of it you are.


----------



## Tom M. (Feb 25, 2012)

swyman said:


> That's why I posted this in the 101 forum



No worries man, I've got no issue with anything you've said. My question is for those who think they are so important that they can grant, or rescind, the "pro" label to a stranger (sarcasm). Good luck with it, keep learning.


----------



## tree md (Feb 25, 2012)

Tom M. said:


> No worries man, I've got no issue with anything you've said. My question is for those who think they are so important that they can grant, or rescind, the "pro" label to a stranger (sarcasm). Good luck with it, keep learning.



Troll, troll, troll your boat, gently up the stream...


----------



## Tom M. (Feb 25, 2012)

tree md said:


> Troll, troll, troll your boat, gently up the stream...



Yup, you guys are 100% predictable :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## jefflovstrom (Feb 25, 2012)

Tom M. said:


> Yup, you guys are 100% predictable :hmm3grin2orange:



We are actually some of the nicest people on earth.
Jeff :msp_tongue:


----------



## sgreanbeans (Feb 26, 2012)

Stihl-O-Matic said:


> well you should see what its like when you combine the two.



I think you should climb strapped, with your badge on, that way, when people ask why, your groundies can tell'em ....."problem squirrel"


----------



## MackenzieTree (Feb 26, 2012)

gotta know whats a troll in your terms!!!


----------



## tree md (Feb 26, 2012)

MackenzieTree said:


> gotta know whats a troll in your terms!!!



Someone who has absolutely no reason to come into the beginner "professional" climber forum, Whom many of us have watched like a hawk for years to make sure no one gets hurt or kills themselves, for the sole purpose of stirring up #### with an arbitrary question that has nothing to do with the original post.


----------

