# drying cookies/planing end grain



## Haywire Haywood (Dec 18, 2007)

A buddy of mine wanted me to cut some cookies off a walnut log he had so he could make some plaques for something. What can be done to keep them from cupping. I cut some from a sycamore and you could almost watch them cup. I mean cupped and split within a day.

I don't imagine that my planer would like planing end grain like that but I've never tried it. What do you think?

Ian


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## timhar (Dec 18, 2007)

It's almost impossible to dry cookies without them cracking. I'm not sure if this site allows linking to other sites and don't feel like looking up the rule, but here is a link to another wood site with a discussion on walnut cookies.
http://www.woodweb.com/forum_fdse_files/wnw/539445.html


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## stonykill (Dec 18, 2007)

I've got one cookie that my great uncle gave me. Its maple and never slpit. I asked him how he dried it, and said it was a fluke, all the others split. I hope someone knows how to dry these thing. I have so many idea for them.

Planing the end grain is tough. You need super sharp blades, and lots of hp. Even then end grain pulls. You best bet for planing end grain is a low angle hand plane. The hand plane is the most used hand tool in my shop. I joint board edges, clean up tough grain, and usually finish the planing on table tops with a hand plane. They save a lot of time over belt sanders and then orbital sanding.


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## BobL (Dec 18, 2007)

One way of doing this is with a router mill.

In my setup the cookie is clamped to a bench top with the mill/rig straddling the work bench. 












A 3HP router holding a planing bit, rides in a sliding carriage that can sweep across the cookie. Mine uses a threaded rod to equally space the sweeps.





This picks shows the cranks that drive the all-thread. At some stage I plan on linking the cranks with a cycle chain.





And here's what it looks like after milling off an uneven 1/2" of chainsaw cuts, sanded with a belt sander and had natural bee's wax polish applied.





The wood is some form of desert gum - super hard stuff. Final product is here.

Cheers


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## Ianab (Dec 19, 2007)

Yup.. the router bridge setup like that is the best way to get odd pieces of wood flat  

You wont get it planed perfectly, but it will be flat, then you can finish it off with a sander.

But as for drying the rounds... very tricky. Logs with a hollow centre are more likely succeed, as are slices with big bark inclusions. The holes leave a space for the wood to move as it shrinks.

Cheers

Ian


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## Mike Van (Dec 19, 2007)

Soaking those round slices in a tank of P.E.G. [polyethethelene glycol] is about the only sure way to stop cracks. The PEG replaces the water so I've read.


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## tribalwind (Dec 19, 2007)

2 alternatives some woodturners use to PEG now are 

1:concentrated dish/hand/laundry detergent. 

2: denatured alcohol. 
actually i've heard some people mixed both...

the soap is a little cheaper than PEG



heres some links to info on these methods. 
i've done the alcohol soak and it worked great on bowls and other things(longs i got all the pith out) 
http://www.woodcentral.com/articles/turning/articles_473.shtml
http://www.ronkent.com/techniques.php

another thing to do is cut a relief kerf to the center so it can dry and move evenly/predictably , then you can fill it in with whatever or make an inlay.. i repaired a red cedar cookie table once,it had a big crack to the middle(pith), i routed it to look like a lightning bolt sortve,inlaid a piece of purple heart to match. ive seen other people inlay those butterfly/bowtie dovetails too,they look good to me. 

does simply anchor-sealing/painting the end grain work ????


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## ShoerFast (Dec 19, 2007)

My .02 cents worth is to cut cookies from a dry seasoned log. 

We buy tools to last a lifetime, but it seems we forget to put up future wood for projects.

I really like the router-mill to even up the end grain.


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## stonykill (Dec 19, 2007)

*no such thing*

there is no such thing as a dry seasoned log. A log can be cut down for 2 years and still be green enough to split when drying. Even standing dead is still very wet for furniture wood. For firewood, sure it burns great as soon as its cut, but stick a moisture meter in a standing dead tree, or a "dry seasoned log" . Its not close to dry. I've still had cookies split on "dry seasoned logs"


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## timberwolf (Dec 19, 2007)

I made a couple from a seasoned log, They did not split, some woods dry reasonably well in the round, others don't, but if they are kept up off the ground and in low humidity the wood can dry quite well in the round. Look at standing dead elm or cedar trees in a flooded bever swamp. If most of the moisture is out the biggest dimentional change has already taken place so subsiquent wapring and cracking will be minimal compaired to drying green wood directy. Drying in the freezer can work well to keep things from splitting and warping too, other options, boil the wood first before drying, or pack it in sawdust to dry slow and evenly. 

Don't try to plane cross grain in a power planer, easy to have the piece split and damage the planer or cause harm to anyone near by. Friend of mine broke the solid frame on a large 15 inch industrial planer putting cross grain through it.

Drum sanders, router mills are much better and safer options.


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## ShoerFast (Dec 19, 2007)

stonykill said:


> there is no such thing as a dry seasoned log. A log can be cut down for 2 years and still be green enough to split when drying. Even standing dead is still very wet for furniture wood. For firewood, sure it burns great as soon as its cut, but stick a moisture meter in a standing dead tree, or a "dry seasoned log" . Its not close to dry. I've still had cookies split on "dry seasoned logs"



Is that right?

Cookies are just splitters, internal twist and grain pull can check and split.

4 years, hanging above the shop stove is Smithy-Standard for curing hickory or oak in 4X4's for even cant-hook axe and maul handles. Standing dead is still out in the rain and still attached to the roots. 

My dad has a 24" birch log he has been curing for over 10 years, he thinks it's getting close. It will become butcher-blocks someday.


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## 00juice (Dec 19, 2007)

I know someone who has a big pile of black locust cookies that are all dried without splits. They are perfect. He said he barried them in a pile of straw for about two years. Kept replacing the straw every so often. The straw acted as a barrier from air and kept them from drying very quickly. The pile was kept in a barn, out of the weather.


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## stonykill (Dec 19, 2007)

00juice said:


> I know someone who has a big pile of black locust cookies that are all dried without splits. They are perfect. He said he barried them in a pile of straw for about two years. Kept replacing the straw every so often. The straw acted as a barrier from air and kept them from drying very quickly. The pile was kept in a barn, out of the weather.



now thats the post I was waiting for!!!THANKS!!!opcorn:


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## Jonsered2095 (Dec 19, 2007)

I cut a few rounds/flutings from the base of a norfolk pine. They were 3' or more and I dried them inside clamped them together and painted them repeatedly with a cooking oil/kerosene mix. They turned out well, but as stated previously I may have been lucky because of the tree type.


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## redprospector (Dec 19, 2007)

This probably wouldn't work for turning bowl's, etc. but if you cut the log on a bias or angle it put's the grain in a position other than straight through the cookie. It makes the "plaque" and oval rather than round, but I have had verry good luck drying pieces like this. The steeper the angle you cut it at, the better it will do.

Andy


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## Jonsered2095 (Dec 20, 2007)

redprospector said:


> This probably wouldn't work for turning bowl's, etc. but if you cut the log on a bias or angle it put's the grain in a position other than straight through the cookie. It makes the "plaque" and oval rather than round, but I have had verry good luck drying pieces like this. The steeper the angle you cut it at, the better it will do.
> 
> Andy



Good point Red! I did cut mine on the bias (offset at least twice the thickness of the round)


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## woodshop (Dec 20, 2007)

BobL said:


> One way of doing this is with a router mill.
> 
> In my setup the cookie is clamped to a bench top with the mill/rig straddling the work bench.



I like this setup, much more sophisticated than my quick and dirty version of this using milled S4S 2x4's on my workbench. I might try and build something similar to yours to make tolerances closer and more uniform. Thanks for the ideas Bob.


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## Haywire Haywood (Dec 20, 2007)

Thanks for the ideas. I talked my buddy out of it. He's going to bring the logs up and I'm going to mill them up with my 041. I just got it back in working order and the loop of Bailey's lo-pro ripping chain arrived so they'll be the guinea pigs for the maiden voyage.

Ian


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## Narwhale (Dec 20, 2007)

Ian,
We woodturners roughturn all sorts of items like your plaque blanks, then we must dry them in order to finish turn them.
It is important to get a constant thickness and without cracks in them already. We usually put them in a paper bag to keep them in a slow to change environment, and then throw them somewhere that is humid, constant temperature and humidity, and without a lot of air circulation.
This lets them dry slowly.
The previous post about burrying them in straaw is right up the same line. Keep them in a stable, slow drying environment and give them time. Should be able to get 90% of them or so as good.
Rich S.


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## Haywire Haywood (Dec 20, 2007)

Thanks Narwhale... and welcome to the forum.

How slow is slow for say a 2" thick cookie off a 12-15" walnut log? This log has been down and out in the woods for a year. I haven't seen it yet so I don't know what condition it's in.

Ian


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## Narwhale (Dec 21, 2007)

We usually leave 1 to 1.25" wall thicknesses and it will dry ok in about 3 to 4 months down here in Houston, Tx.
2' thickness might take 6 months or so. Remember, the key is slow even drying.
Rich S.


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