# Da Prince of Saws Has Arrived



## THALL10326 (Aug 12, 2006)

Beings no one seems to have tried out the new Stihl 441 Mag as of yet, I took it upon myself today to buy one and to let all you saw buffs know what the scoop is on the machine.
Here are the facts. As Stihl claims its way smoother than the 440 by a mile. In the hand or in the wood its extremely smooth. The vibe system some would say is a copy of Husky but look at it closely and you will see its much more than a copy. Its Stihl's new system, not a copy. 
The filtration system uses the big air filter just like the 660 though the dirt is suppose to be channeled away from the filter. I didn't run it long enough to verify all that but will.
Ok, the part everyone is interested in, how does it run and cut. First off, like the whole saw itself, it cranks real smooth. Another pleasure was the trigger interlock, its super smooth as well. Once fired up I was surprised at how well and fast it reved up. It goes from idle to top speed in a flash. Does not sound like the Stihl's of old, sounds more like the 361 with a deeper tone to it. After I fired it up I handed it to my brother who happened to be checking it out with me. He reved it a few times and said its sounds like a hot rod 361 but feels smoother. He recently bought a 361 and loves it. We took it up behind the barn where we have some big logs laying around. I put it in a 20 inch oak and it walked through it like nothing. Has a awful lot of pulling power in the cut, or torque as most would say. Holds its rpm's very well. That brother of mine says no no no, that oak is soft wood. He finds a soild hickory log about 16-18inches around and says now there's a true test. I hand him the saw and said go for it. He laid into the log and the saw never let up, it walked through it just like the oak. He was all smiles to say the least. He then says this saw is one bad mother. 
In all its a hot rod 361. Cuts great, super smooth in the hand or in the cut. It has to be by far the smoothest running saw I've ever laid my hands on. The 361 is smooth but no match for the 441. Will outcut the 440 easily and I think outcut the 460 speed wise as well, its one quick cutting saw that holds its rpm's real well in the cut. How much bar it will handle I do not know but the 20 incher on it was nothing for it. The weight of the saw is about a touch more than the 440 but the power and smoothness it has for that little bit of weight makes it well worth it. 
Retails for around 750.00, sounds like alot untill you run it. Stihl hit the mark on this baby real good. The 361 has been a huge winner and no doult the 441 will be as well. Its a keeper.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 12, 2006)

*Sorry Stang*

I know, I know, I should have used more paragraphs,lol. BTW why are people calling you DR. Stang of late??? Whats up with that???


----------



## Four Paws (Aug 12, 2006)

I'm lazy and didn't want to go to Stihl's website...how many cc's?


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 12, 2006)

Four Paws said:


> I'm lazy and didn't want to go to Stihl's website...how many cc's?



lol, thats a good question I overlooked. 70.7 cc, 4.3 cubic inch, 5.5 bhp.


----------



## stihlatit (Aug 12, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Beings no one seems to have tried out the new Stihl 441 Mag as of yet, I took it upon myself today to buy one and to let all you saw buffs know what the scoop is on the machine.
> Here are the facts. As Stihl claims its way smoother than the 440 by a mile. In the hand or in the wood its extremely smooth. The vibe system some would say is a copy of Husky but look at it closely and you will see its much more than a copy. Its Stihl's new system, not a copy.
> The filtration system uses the big air filter just like the 660 though the dirt is suppose to be channeled away from the filter. I didn't run it long enough to verify all that but will.
> Ok, the part everyone is interested in, how does it run and cut. First off, like the whole saw itself, it cranks real smooth. Another pleasure was the trigger interlock, its super smooth as well. Once fired up I was surprised at how well and fast it reved up. It goes from idle to top speed in a flash. Does not sound like the Stihl's of old, sounds more like the 361 with a deeper tone to it. After I fired it up I handed it to my brother who happened to be checking it out with me. He reved it a few times and said its sounds like a hot rod 361 but feels smoother. He recently bought a 361 and loves it. We took it up behind the barn where we have some big logs laying around. I put it in a 20 inch oak and it walked through it like nothing. Has a awful lot of pulling power in the cut, or torque as most would say. Holds its rpm's very well. That brother of mine says no no no, that oak is soft wood. He finds a soild hickory log about 16-18inches around and says now there's a true test. I hand him the saw and said go for it. He laid into the log and the saw never let up, it walked through it just like the oak. He was all smiles to say the least. He then says this saw is one bad mother.
> ...



Sounds interesting Thall.


----------



## Four Paws (Aug 12, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> 70.7 cc, 4.3 cubic inch, 5.5 bhp.



You mention a price of $750. I have noticed that once you reach the 70cc mark, most major saw manufacturers seem to charge $10/cc give or take a few. Kind of a random thought, but I figured I would put it out there. $750 doesn't seem too out of line. 

I think for most firewood cutters, the 70-80cc saw is about as big as they would ever need. A good 50-60cc saw for felling smaller trees, and blocking up limb wood 6-10" diameter. And a nice 35-45cc saw for clean-up on the ground, to get the brush out of your way so you can start blocking what you just cut. The lighter saw is easier to manage, especially in odd positions. Some may disagree, and that's ok.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 12, 2006)

Four Paws said:


> You mention a price of $750. I have noticed that once you reach the 70cc mark, most major saw manufacturers seem to charge $10/cc give or take a few. Kind of a random thought, but I figured I would put it out there. $750 doesn't seem too out of line.
> 
> I think for most firewood cutters, the 70-80cc saw is about as big as they would ever need. A good 50-60cc saw for felling smaller trees, and blocking up limb wood 6-10" diameter. And a nice 35-45cc saw for clean-up on the ground, to get the brush out of your way so you can start blocking what you just cut. The lighter saw is easier to manage, especially in odd positions. Some may disagree, and that's ok.



Can't argue with you Four. The 441 is a lot more saw than most firewood cutters need. It is fun though to walk that thing through some wood. Average man will not buy it being a bit more than needed but like you say, for those that want a 70-80cc good size saw its sweet. The most amazing thing about it is how smooth it is. Its a pleasure to cut with.


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 12, 2006)

Tom it sounds real nice ..What you want for that there demo saw...


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 12, 2006)

04ultra said:


> Tom it sounds real nice ..What you want for that there demo saw...



For you ole buddy ole pal of mine lets see. Hmmmmmmmmmm 749.99, hows that,lololol. Ultra if you can get your dealer up there to let you try it do so, you'll be totally amazed at how smooth that thing is. It feels nothing like the 660 in the cut, its super smooth. See if your dealer will let you try one, if not get on ya bike and come on down to the house, I'll let you play with it, for a small fee of course, (Roy Rogers No.1),hehe


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 12, 2006)

Looks like I''m going to have to dust off my 361 muffer mod for the 441. It has the same style 1 piece muffler, so the same technique should work.

Hey Thall, quit selling (I mean "buying") them. How am I supposed to get mine from the demo pool if you keep selling them!

I bet most of the 1st production run gets bought by the Stihl dealer's mere employees:hmm3grin2orange:


The Magnum Wrap is $809... Bit no one out east will want one of those.


Oh Yes, If this is the Son the the King of Saws - the PRINCE OF SAWS, who's the Mom????>>


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 12, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> Looks like I''m going to have to dust off my 361 muffer mod for the 441. It has the same style 1 piece muffler, so the same technique should work.
> 
> Hey Thall, quit selling (I mean "buying") them. How am I supposed to get mine from the demo pool if you keep selling them!
> 
> I bet most of the 1st production run gets bought by the Stihl dealer's mere employees:hmm3grin2orange:



hahahaha, hell its only money, can't take it with ya I say. The main reason I bought it Lake was because I knew you didn't have one yet,hehe. Naaaaaaaaa I looked it over and over and thought man thats a nice looking saw. I wondered how it performed and there was only one way to find out, buy it so I did. Its a sweet machine. Stihl is on a roll with this saw bigtime. The 361 and this one go hand in hand. All they need to do now is upgrade the old 260 like you said before.


----------



## CaseyForrest (Aug 12, 2006)

My dealer was asking me what I had heard on here about the 441. I told him not much, just that the initial consensus was it wasnt worth the weight and price jump over the 440.

Thall, he had the same remarks about the saw as you did. He has one on the shelf, and I didnt pick it up, but did look at it....It is a nice looking unit...Getting a little close to the "Other" orange saw though. 

Traitor!!!!


----------



## stihlatit (Aug 12, 2006)

coveredinsap said:


> I wish the "mere employees" would spend a few bucks on a camera so we that could have pictures.
> 
> Where's all the 'action shots'?



Seems he spent all his cash on the saw. If you want to see one you will just have to try and buy one yourself Sap.


----------



## manual (Aug 12, 2006)

I'll Stick with what I am using now. 
Seems that Sthil always has bugs to work out of there new saws.


----------



## manual (Aug 12, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> Oh Yes, If this is the Son the the King of Saws - the PRINCE OF SAWS, who's the Mom????>>


 

Looks like the the King got ahold of a Swedish woman.


----------



## sawinredneck (Aug 13, 2006)

coveredinsap said:


> I wish the "mere employees" would spend a few bucks on a camera so we that could have pictures.
> 
> Where's all the 'action shots'?




Now stop it already!!!!! Thats two in one night!!!! About to have a heart attack, or is that pee my pants?


----------



## sawinredneck (Aug 13, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Can't argue with you Four. The 441 is a lot more saw than most firewood cutters need. It is fun though to walk that thing through some wood. Average man will not buy it being a bit more than needed but like you say, for those that want a 70-80cc good size saw its sweet. The most amazing thing about it is how smooth it is. Its a pleasure to cut with.




But some of us firewood cutters aren't right in the head 
Andy


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 13, 2006)

coveredinsap said:


> I wish the "mere employees" would spend a few bucks on a camera so we that could have pictures.
> 
> Where's all the 'action shots'?



Sap you are correct, I should have got a few pics for you, you always share your saw pics with us. I'll take some pics of the new saw sometime today and post them for ya. 

Have you stuck that big Remmington in wood yet? The ones we had years ago were loud as hell but they cut pretty decent. They weren't as big as that one you got so yours should haul buggy in wood.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 13, 2006)

CaseyForrest said:


> My dealer was asking me what I had heard on here about the 441. I told him not much, just that the initial consensus was it wasnt worth the weight and price jump over the 440.
> 
> Thall, he had the same remarks about the saw as you did. He has one on the shelf, and I didnt pick it up, but did look at it....It is a nice looking unit...Getting a little close to the "Other" orange saw though.
> 
> Traitor!!!!



Awww I wouldn't say they are copying anyone but merely using that new place in Germany they built for research and development to bring new blood on the line. They spent 50 million plus building that place and all these new models and desgins are the results. These new models are new, not the same ole design with new model numbers. They are completely new and it seems everyone, Husky and Dolmar as well, have been coming out with new models. I think its great, varity is nice..


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 13, 2006)

sawinredneck said:


> But some of us firewood cutters aren't right in the head
> Andy



hahaha, good one Andy. I know the feeling.


----------



## fishhuntcutwood (Aug 13, 2006)

manual said:


> Seems that Sthil always has bugs to work out of there new saws.



Every brand does.


----------



## manual (Aug 13, 2006)

Yea, Fish every brand has some sort of bug to work out.
Thats why I would wait. I don't want to be a part of customer product research. 
Although I have not herd of one with Huskys 575. Except He's missing his wife and the ransom note was written in German. Hmmmm.


----------



## Dadatwins (Aug 13, 2006)

Thanks for the review, it sounds very similiar to what folks said about the new style 361 vs the older 360. I am looking forward to getting one.
I wonder what the next model will be to get the makeover? 660 or the 880 with new style antivibe would be very cool. I would guess the 260 since that seems to be a very popular saw. Opinions or rumours?


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 13, 2006)

My "opinion" (not rumor) is that it will be the MS260... Still sells great but after 18 years.. ??? EPA regs will force a lot of model changes on all manfs in the next couple of years.


----------



## manual (Aug 13, 2006)

The 260 would be a good choice To make improvements. Dolmar has the saw of choice now with more power. I'll bet that Sthil will use the air filter system of the 441.
Well if you can't beat em join em.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 13, 2006)

manual said:


> The 260 would be a good choice To make improvements. Dolmar has the saw of choice now with more power. I'll bet that Sthil will use the air filter system of the 441.
> Well if you can't beat em join em.




Na, Don't just join them, make them better!


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 13, 2006)

manual said:


> The 260 would be a good choice To make improvements. Dolmar has the saw of choice now with more power. I'll bet that Sthil will use the air filter system of the 441.
> Well if you can't beat em join em.



Well ya really can't knock that 260 too much , its been one of the best selling saws in the world for many , many years. That maybe why they haven't mess with it, hard to mess with a top seller. Like you though I would like to see them switch it over to the way the 361 and 441 are made mainly to make it smoother. 

You won't get any argument out of me on the Dolmars because I like them, hell I like all saws. Dolmar it seems has always made a good saw but has never figured out how to market them. Stihl and Husky on the other hand owned the chainsaw market so long it will take Dolmar a long time to catch up but I hope they do. Nothing like some good competition to make things fun.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 13, 2006)

coveredinsap said:


> I wish the "mere employees" would spend a few bucks on a camera so we that could have pictures.
> 
> Where's all the 'action shots'?



ok Sap here's ya pics. No action pics, was only me today.


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 13, 2006)

Man is that thing dirty...


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 13, 2006)




----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 13, 2006)




----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 13, 2006)




----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 13, 2006)

*2 barrel carb,lol*


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 13, 2006)

Can you pull the piston for us....please....opcorn:


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 13, 2006)

04ultra said:


> Man is that thing dirty...



I know, awful looking, I should have shined the huzzy up before the pics,


----------



## stihlatit (Aug 13, 2006)

04ultra said:


> Can you pull the piston for us....please....opcorn:



Tom just pull the muffler and tell Ultra to crawl inside as that is the closest he will get to you pulling the piston in your new toy.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 13, 2006)

04ultra said:


> Can you pull the piston for us....please....opcorn:



No can do. Remind me in 20 years, should be ready for rings by then......


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 13, 2006)

stihlatit said:


> Tom just pull the muffler and tell Ultra to crawl inside as that is the closest he will get to pulling the piston.



lolololololololol, Arnie your something else. Ultra crawl in,lololololol


----------



## stihlatit (Aug 13, 2006)

Looks like a nice saw Tom. I am envious and interested. Maybe make that my next saw.


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 13, 2006)

Tom when you going to send that saw up here so I can use it for my demo saw??? :hmm3grin2orange: 

Looks really nice..


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 13, 2006)

stihlatit said:


> Looks like a nice saw Tom. I am envious and interested. Maybe make that my next saw.



Arnie the main thing I can tell you is its some kind of smooth, silky smooth. I've never run any saw that seems as smooth as that one. If Ultra gets one his won't be nearly as smooth as mine,.:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## stihlatit (Aug 13, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Arnie the main thing I can tell you is its some kind of smooth, silky smooth. I've never run any saw that seems as smooth as that one. If Ultra gets one his won't be nearly as smooth as mine,.:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:



If Ultra buys it from you then you can take it apart and show us the piston first. Maybe thats what you mean by his will run rough. LOL.:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 13, 2006)

04ultra said:


> Tom when you going to send that saw up here so I can use it for my demo saw??? :hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> Looks really nice..



You got a goodie box coming this week. As for the saw that may take awhile, how old are you now? Most likely by the time I send that 441 up to ya you'll be way too old to use it and I'll be too old to put it in the box,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 13, 2006)

04ultra said:


> Tom when you going to send that saw up here so I can use it for my demo saw??? :hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> Looks really nice..




Tell your dealer you want to demo one... The area Stihl sales guy will have to turn up with one then!


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 13, 2006)

stihlatit said:


> If Ultra buys it from you then you can take it apart and show us the piston first. Maybe thats what you mean by his will run rough. LOL.:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:



hahahahaha, great idea Arnie, I'll send it to him in pieces with a note NICE PISTON,lolololololol


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 13, 2006)

*Ultra Lake is right*

The reps carry alot of saws around to show. You can get a helluva deal on a demo and they are like brand new. I just got in a 460 Rescue saw from Mid-Atlantic a few weeks ago. Its a demo. Saved a bunch of money on it and it looks like brand spanking new. They don't ruff up their demo's for sure....


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 13, 2006)

THALL you best go look in the shed...


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 13, 2006)

04ultra said:


> THALL you best go look in the shed...



hahahaha, okokok, now get back outhere and put it back together before I tell your wife your still buying chainsaws and now tearing them apart,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 13, 2006)

*O.K. Ultra - tore it down just for you!*



























Now get over here and put it back together for me!


----------



## stihlatit (Aug 13, 2006)

Andy your awsome and have Ultra and Thall stumped . LOL.


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 13, 2006)

Nice Andy...my picture is a TS400 cement saw..LOL


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 13, 2006)

Look carefully at the piston - the saw has been used!!!


----------



## stihlatit (Aug 13, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> Look carefully at the piston - the saw has been used!!!



Thats why they are stumped lol.


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 13, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> Look carefully at the piston - the saw has been used!!!




OH-OH Now I really have to come out there..Ma gas up my Harley..


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 13, 2006)

stihlatit said:


> Andy your awsome and have Ultra and Thall stumped . LOL.



Stumped, what. Shoot Lake didn't stump me on those pics. I've seen Snap On tools before. Lake is the only guy that can afford them and take pics of them,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 13, 2006)

stihlatit said:


> Andy your awsome and have Ultra and Thall stumped . LOL.


Come on Thall... it's been 5 minutes - you stihl lost for words???


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 13, 2006)

Damn, beat me by 1 second!


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 13, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> Damn, beat me buy 1 second!



lolol. Where did you get that saw to tear apart or is that a tester they opened up?????


----------



## stihlatit (Aug 13, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> lolol. Where did you get that saw to tear apart or is that a tester they opened up?????



Now you are up to speed.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 13, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> lolol. Where did you get that saw to tear apart or is that a tester they opened up?????




ha ha ha... you think I give away all my little secrets??? 

You want to see pictures of the new MS26... urrhhhhhggg gurgle choke.... the stihl police have got me.... :help: :censored: :taped:


----------



## stihlatit (Aug 13, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> ha ha ha... you think I give away all my little secrets???
> 
> You want to see pictures of the new MS26... urrhhhhhggg gurgle choke.... the stihl police have got me.... :help: :censored: :taped:



Never bite the hand that feeds you comes to mind.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 13, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> ha ha ha... you think I give away all my little secrets???
> 
> You want to see pictures of the new MS26... urrhhhhhggg gurgle choke.... the stihl police have got me.... :help: :censored: :taped:



lolololol. Ok you can keep your secrets here on the site. I'll e-mail ya for the facts, just the facts and only the facts, thats a fact,lolol


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 13, 2006)

stihlatit said:


> Never bite the hand that feeds you comes to mind.



Thats a great old saying Arnie. Holds true in all areas........


----------



## SteveH (Aug 13, 2006)

Dang. Don't think I've seen a prettier saw. Sort of makes a person wanna run out and get one. Way the man keeps runnin' on about how smooth and fast it is doesn't help a bit, either.


----------



## sawinredneck (Aug 13, 2006)

SteveH said:


> Dang. Don't think I've seen a prettier saw. Sort of makes a person wanna run out and get one. Way the man keeps runnin' on about how smooth and fast it is doesn't help a bit, either.





HHHHHMMMMMM.......................... How am I gana 'splain this'in to the wife?
Andy


----------



## CaseyForrest (Aug 13, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> Now get over here and put it back together for me!



Whats the theory on that carb and intake?


----------



## sawinredneck (Aug 13, 2006)

CaseyForrest said:


> Whats the theory on that carb and intake?




Ask Ford and GM!!! After much testing it has been learned that long-skinney intake runner are best for low end power, and short fat ones are best for hight end (I may have it backwards?) Anyway, this has led to many 2-stage intake systems, the most prominent being on the 92-96 Ford Tarus SHO. Two compeletly different intakes on one engine, at a certain RPM (3200 or 3600, been too long) one opend up and the other shut down!!! Cool stuff!!! All courtiesy of Dr. Liengenfelter, the Corvete guy.
Andy


----------



## CaseyForrest (Aug 13, 2006)

I see...I was looking at the specs on that saw on Stihls website. It weighs as much as a 460, but with .5 horse less. I am selling my 460, and that thing looked like a good replacement, but not now!!!! Ill just stick with my original plan and get the 361.

Maybe if they come out with a 461, and keep the weight the same...then we would be talking.


----------



## sawinredneck (Aug 13, 2006)

What say ye Thall? Beith the power of much notability s to the wieghtith? Or beith the power much not notability to the weightith? Isith the comparisoin one to be of the 440 or tis to be ofith the same as to be the 460? (Man do I need some sleep!!!:deadhorse: )
Andy


----------



## CaseyForrest (Aug 13, 2006)

The only comparison I was making was the weight....thats all..My dealer said the same things and had the same impressions running that 441 as Tom....I wouldnt mind trying it.....

HEy...heres an Idea....Tom, send that saw to me, Ill try it out, and then add a MI sticker to it, then Ill send it to whomever speaks up, they can try it, and put their states sticker on it.....and by the time its gets back to you, itll look like a steamer trunk!!!


----------



## sawinredneck (Aug 13, 2006)

NO, I get what you where saying, I am just curious if the 441 runs close enough with the 460 to just forgoe the 460 and run the 441 instead. Does tha make any sense to anyone besides me?
Andy


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 13, 2006)

CaseyForrest said:


> I see...I was looking at the specs on that saw on Stihls website. It weighs as much as a 460, but with .5 horse less. I am selling my 460, and that thing looked like a good replacement, but not now!!!! Ill just stick with my original plan and get the 361.
> 
> Maybe if they come out with a 461, and keep the weight the same...then we would be talking.




The weight gain is deliberate. The engine life is increased 30%. Much beefier bottom end. You'll get used to it

Want to bet you can get .5hp with a simple muffer port?


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 14, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> The weigh gain is deliberate. The engine life is increased 30%. Much beefier bottom end. You'll get used to it
> 
> Want to bet you can get .5hp with a simple muffer port?



Andy let's try the muffler mod on THALLS saw..


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 14, 2006)

04ultra said:


> Andy let's try the muffler mod on THALLS saw..



Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm does that mod have the Stihl logo?,haha. If I was going to get it altered in any fashion at all Lake would be the man I'd send it to.....Let me break it in first Ultra and then if Lake wants to work his magic on the muffler he's welcome, I would let him and not think twice.


----------



## manual (Aug 14, 2006)

Boy o Boy Thall, Can't ruffle your feathers anymore.

That 441 is a nice saw. "For a cross breed".
Hey Ultra we can give Thall's saw a redneck Muffler mod. I got a axe to open that muffler up. 

Ok on the serious sideYou say the weight gain is in the flywheels. 
Are they using different alloys or just more beef.
Also is that carb that lake is showing the carb that goes on the 441?


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 14, 2006)

manual said:


> Ok on the serious sideYou say the weight gain is in the flywheels.
> Are they using different alloys or just more beef.
> Also is that carb that lake is showing the carb that goes on the 441?




The weight increase is in the crankcase, not the flywheel.

yes, all those pics are actual 441 parts.


----------



## 361kid (Aug 14, 2006)

Sexy...just sexy. This site is gonna bankrupt me before I even get to college!


----------



## Greg Lees (Aug 14, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> The weight increase is in the crankcase, not the flywheel.
> 
> yes, all those pics are actual 441 parts.



Andy,

Does/will the 441 have a dual port muffler option like the 440 and 460? If so, would it make better sense for me to forgo the 460 for the 441 (even though the 460 probably gains .5 hp with the DP) to get the better anti-vibe and air filter?

Thall or Andy - 
Stock for stock, which one would you choose, the 441 or the 460, if I'm cutting firewood in hardwood only (mostly large diameter downed oak and hickory)?

Greg


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 14, 2006)

manual said:


> Boy o Boy Thall, Can't ruffle your feathers anymore.
> 
> That 441 is a nice saw. "For a cross breed".
> Hey Ultra we can give Thall's saw a redneck Muffler mod. I got a axe to open that muffler up.
> ...



haha, I knew what you was up to Manual,lolol. I got street wise while I was locked up in the AS jail for a week,,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 14, 2006)

Greg Lees said:


> Andy,
> 
> Does/will the 441 have a dual port muffler option like the 440 and 460? If so, would it make better sense for me to forgo the 460 for the 441 (even though the 460 probably gains .5 hp with the DP) to get the better anti-vibe and air filter?
> 
> ...



To be completely honest Greg I like both saws. However if I was to run one of the two for a whole day the 441 would be in my hand. Its some kind of smooth. I know me saying that gets old but if you run one you will see exactly what I mean. I'm gonna put them side by side in a log and see how much differance there is in cutting speed after I get this 441 broke in. I'm fairly certain the 441 is a tad faster. I do know for certain the 441 sounds alot quieter, revs up quicker and has way less vibes. Its a pleasure to use and if comfort is the main concern then the 441 is the winner of the two.


----------



## manual (Aug 14, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> The weight increase is in the crankcase, not the flywheel.
> 
> yes, all those pics are actual 441 parts.


 This is all new to me. 
Do you do anything different to adjust the carb.
Beefer crankcase why? Does it have more compression?
Who makes the carb? And is it used on any other saw? Including non Sthil saws.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 14, 2006)

manual said:


> This is all new to me.
> Do you do anything different to adjust the carb.
> Beefer crankcase why? Does it have more compression?
> Who makes the carb? And is it used on any other saw? Including non Sthil saws.




It just a standard 2 screw Walbro HD carb with a manifold attached to allow air injection. The air injection port (the bottom hole) is opened by crankcase pressure and allows the little holes in the piston to carry additional air up to the combustion chamber.

The compression is "normal". One of the design criteria was to make the bottom end more rigid and to achieve an overall increase in engine life. Stihl looked at the historical failure modes of 440's including physical damage by end users, and made what they considered to be appropriate changes. I see a LOT of beaten up and burned out 440's. Anything to make that less is a good idea in my book. Weight cost money (Al-mag metal isn't cheap). They didn't do it just make anyone mad!


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 14, 2006)

Greg Lees said:


> Andy,
> 
> Does/will the 441 have a dual port muffler option like the 440 and 460? If so, would it make better sense for me to forgo the 460 for the 441 (even though the 460 probably gains .5 hp with the DP) to get the better anti-vibe and air filter?
> 
> ...




Nope, it's a sealed epa compliant muffler...

For your use, a 441 would be a fine choice.


----------



## SawTroll (Aug 15, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> .... Weight cost money (Al-mag metal isn't cheap). They didn't do it just make anyone mad!


Well, they certainly succeded in making some of us disappointed (not really mad I think) with the weight increase.

I have no hurry getting a saw in that class, as I don't really need it, but the 441 is looking better all the time, as the reports from people that have actually tried it is coming in.......

Will there be a 461 with about the same weight in the not-too-far future, may be the big question for some people.....


----------



## fishhuntcutwood (Aug 15, 2006)

When comparing the 441 to the 460, my only question is- "Will the 441 pull a 32?"

Am I correct that a 441 won't pull a 32" any better than a 440 does?

Jeff


----------



## manual (Aug 15, 2006)

fishhuntcutwood said:


> When comparing the 441 to the 460, my only question is- "Will the 441 pull a 32?"
> 
> Am I correct that a 441 won't pull a 32" any better than a 440 does?
> 
> Jeff



Jeff it's to my understanding that the only comparison with the 441 and the 460 that they have in comon is weight.and the weight was put there on the 441 the beef up the case.


----------



## fishhuntcutwood (Aug 15, 2006)

manual said:


> Jeff it's to my understanding that the only comparison with the 441 and the 460 that they have in comon is weight.and the weight was put there on the 441 the beef up the case.



That's my understanding as well. I asked that almost as a rhetorical question. The extra durability is nice, but I've never had a saw fail me, and even though I've got my 660 to pull long bars, I like having that 460 niche filled.

That said, I'll probably end up with 441 at some point in time.


----------



## fishhuntcutwood (Aug 15, 2006)

Do we know if the full wrap 441 comes with a H/O oiler like the 460 full wrap does?


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 15, 2006)

yes "we" do  

The MS441 Wrap,like the 460 Wrap, has the HO oil pump, and uses the same parts as the current 460.


----------



## fishhuntcutwood (Aug 15, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> ...and uses the same parts as the current 460.



Which same parts? Same pump parts, or is there more that they share? Can't be much if there is.


----------



## spike60 (Aug 15, 2006)

I know that you guys are all excited about this new saw, and I surprised that no one has mentioned this yet, but I was told today that there have been a bunch of failures and that they are already pulling them off the market. A buddy of who is a Stihl dealer and he got a fax from corporate on this today. 

According to the fax: "The armature sprocket is causing interference. Which in turn, causes the combustion line to interfer with the flow in the dyna-flow"

Well, of course, that's all nonsense. (Just kidding, Thall 'ole buddy!!) It looks like a great saw and I'll check it out this weekend at the Woodsman days in upstate NY. Maybe make a few cuts with it.

Regarding the above quotation, I'll send a free Dolmar T-shirt, and a Husky hat to the first member who can tell me where it came from and who said it. (Post it in this thread, I'll PM the guy who gets it right). 

I'll check in later from the girfriends house, despite the fact that she gets annoyed when I go down there and go on "that stupid saw site".


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 15, 2006)

spike60 said:


> I know that you guys are all excited about this new saw, and I surprised that no one has mentioned this yet, but I was told today that there have been a bunch of failures and that they are already pulling them off the market. A buddy of who is a Stihl dealer and he got a fax from corporate on this today.
> 
> According to the fax: "The armature sprocket is causing interference. Which in turn, causes the combustion line to interfer with the flow in the dyna-flow"
> 
> ...



Taking mine back first thing in the morning,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Dadatwins (Aug 15, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Taking mine back first thing in the morning,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:



Nah send it down to me and I will run it a while and see if I can get it to fail. 
Test should not take more than a year or so and I will send constant updates.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 15, 2006)

Dadatwins said:


> Nah send it down to me and I will run it a while and see if I can get it to fail.
> Test should not take more than a year or so and I will send constant updates.



haha, hey wait you promise to send it back,hehe. I got two more sold, one going out Friday and one going tomorrow. I won't tell them about the which of ma jig interferrring with the whatcha ma call it,,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 15, 2006)

THALL you can send your 441 to me ..I'll check it out and let you know in a year or so if anything was wrong..:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## spacemule (Aug 15, 2006)

spike60 said:


> According to the fax: "The armature sprocket is causing interference. Which in turn, causes the combustion line to interfer with the flow in the dyna-flow"


Why, you said it of course. Here's the quote. :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## stihlatit (Aug 15, 2006)

Was checking out at my dealer today and he does not have any yet. Told him that the rave here says you bette put some ofthese in the store.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 16, 2006)

fishhuntcutwood said:


> Which same parts? Same pump parts, or is there more that they share? Can't be much if there is.




Pump parts.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 16, 2006)

fishhuntcutwood said:


> When comparing the 441 to the 460, my only question is- "Will the 441 pull a 32?"
> 
> Am I correct that a 441 won't pull a 32" any better than a 440 does?
> 
> Jeff




Probably not much diff at the top end, but it has a wider torque band so it likely won't bog as easily.

Just buy one and let us know.


----------



## spike60 (Aug 16, 2006)

spacemule said:


> Why, you said it of course. Here's the quote. :hmm3grin2orange:



Well; it was actually about 7 to 10 years before Opie.


----------



## spike60 (Aug 16, 2006)

Aw, come on. Nobody got this? A hint: The guy was talking about a vaccum cleaner.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 16, 2006)

spike60 said:


> Aw, come on. Nobody got this? A hint: The guy was talking about a vaccum cleaner.



Whattttttttttttttttttttttt you mean to tell me Spike I bought a vac? Grrrrrrrrrrr I'm taking that thing back, grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. I could of swore it said saw, I knew I should have wore my specs when I brought that thing home,grrrr


----------



## spike60 (Aug 17, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Whattttttttttttttttttttttt you mean to tell me Spike I bought a vac? Grrrrrrrrrrr I'm taking that thing back, grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. I could of swore it said saw, I knew I should have wore my specs when I brought that thing home,grrrr



OK, it was from the Honeymooners. It was Norton talking about the vac that Ralph bought that wouldn't pass the "oatmeal test"

Maybe I should send you a shirt anyway.


----------



## bwalker (Aug 17, 2006)

I am not buying this increase of weight for the sake of durability non sense. They beefed up components because the Strato charged type engines run much hotter and use less fuel(hence less cooling and lubrication).
BTW that cylinder looks very simular to a Redmax strato-charged engine. I wonder if Stihl didnt buy some of Redmax's older technology as they are the industry leader in two stroke, emmissions compliant engines?


----------



## manual (Aug 17, 2006)

Well ben I was trying to get some info on what other companys use that type of carburator setup. But no awnser. Does redmax use that type of carb.


----------



## bwalker (Aug 17, 2006)

The Redmax 8000 blower I have uses a Walbro carb that is simular in that it has two barrels, but it is more compact than the Stihl carb. 
I believe the early generation Redmax used a carb very cloe to the 441 crab, but I could be mistaken.


----------



## bwalker (Aug 17, 2006)

I believe the claim is very dubious as well, Treeco.
Many crank/case bearing failures are caused by dirt ingestion and a beefy crankcase wont do ????e to prevent that.


----------



## bwalker (Aug 17, 2006)

BTW whent he 361 first came out everybody was blowing the horn on how great a saw it was. I bought one and found it to be a slug. That was untill I had it ported.


----------



## manual (Aug 17, 2006)

manual said:


> Thats why I would wait. I don't want to be a part of customer product research.
> .



Looks like someone picked up on what I was saying.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 17, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> I see decreasing the horsepower/weight ratio as a serious flaw in the new design.
> 
> An increased durability of 30% is being claimed(dubious). How about the durability of the operator? Dragging around increased weight for the same horsepower is an ergonomic disadvantage and multiplied by the life of the saw has some pretty serious consequences for the operator.
> 
> ...



Yeah I would be very suspect too, especailly if I never had one in my hands and was merely blowing smoke, yup yup, I'd be very suspect too,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## bwalker (Aug 17, 2006)

Stihl dealers might be more credibal IMO if you didnt continue to say the 260 is a great saw and that the 290-390 are good saws as well. The 260 is a over priced under power, over vibrating club and ditto the 290-390 except they are heavy as well.:deadhorse: 
Then there is the whole thing that Stihl could sell a orange dog turd and you guys would proclaim it as tops. Thats my 2 cents.


----------



## LarryTheCableGuy (Aug 17, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> Two dealers are quoted below:


Nope, they are just employees. You knew that Dan.

 

.


----------



## manual (Aug 17, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Yeah I would be very suspect too, especailly if I never had one in my hands and was merely blowing smoke, yup yup, I'd be very suspect too,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:



Come on Thall, Not everybody is going to jump on the Sthil band wagon.
I like to ask questions first. I my never buy 441. of course I should never say never.
Change takes awhile to soak in.


----------



## manual (Aug 17, 2006)

bwalker said:


> Stihl dealers might be more credibal IMO if you didnt continue to say the 260 is a great saw and that the 290-390 are good saws as well. The 260 is a over priced under power, over vibrating club and ditto the 290-390 except they are heavy as well.:deadhorse:
> Then there is the whole thing that Stihl could sell a orange dog turd and you guys would proclaim it as tops. Thats my 2 cents.



Have you ever wondered why it takes a pro to use a decompression valve and adjust bar oil (pro 260)


----------



## Rspike (Aug 17, 2006)

LarryTheCableGuy said:


> Nope, they are just employees. You knew that Dan.
> 
> 
> 
> .


" MERE EMPLOYEES " if your going to say it then it has to be right . :biggrinbounce2:


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 17, 2006)

LarryTheCableGuy said:


> Nope, they are just employees. You knew that Dan.
> 
> 
> 
> .



Dan was being kind to us Larry,,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 17, 2006)

Rspike said:


> " MERE EMPLOYEES " if your going to say it then it has to be right . :biggrinbounce2:



Thats correct,,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## BlueRidgeMark (Aug 17, 2006)

Hmmm. Haven't seen this thread in a few days. Glad to see somebody is keeping you two in your place.





Might see you Friday, Tom. Gotta rent a stump grinder.


----------



## LarryTheCableGuy (Aug 17, 2006)

BlueRidgeMark said:


> Hmmm. Haven't seen this thread in a few days. Glad to see somebody is keeping you two in your place.


That's right! Now you two get back to polishing them saws before you "dupe" those "purported" customers!

Brahahahaha!


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 17, 2006)

LarryTheCableGuy said:


> That's right! Now you two get back to polishing them saws before you "dupe" those "purported" customers!
> 
> Brahahahaha!



Yaaa sir boss, I getem pile lished up real goods ya hears, hehehehehe.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 17, 2006)

BlueRidgeMark said:


> Hmmm. Haven't seen this thread in a few days. Glad to see somebody is keeping you two in your place.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'll be looking for ya Mark. Maybe I'll find some goodies for ya but don't tell Ultra, he gets upset that you get all the goodies,,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 17, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> I'll be looking for ya Mark. Maybe I'll find some goodies for ya but don't tell Ultra, he gets upset that you get all the goodies,,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:



THALL you talking behind my back..LOL :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 17, 2006)

04ultra said:


> THALL you talking behind my back..LOL :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:



You told me you was going to go bike riding all day. I didn't know the road you was on led to here,sorry,NOT,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 17, 2006)

spike60 said:


> OK, it was from the Honeymooners. It was Norton talking about the vac that Ralph bought that wouldn't pass the "oatmeal test"
> 
> Maybe I should send you a shirt anyway.



I agree, send me a Dolmar shirt Spike. I'll wear it in the Stihl shop and have some fun with the customers. When they ask whats the deal, I'll say what deal,lolol, should be fun......


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 17, 2006)

bwalker said:


> I am not buying this increase of weight for the sake of durability non sense. They beefed up components because the Strato charged type engines run much hotter and use less fuel(hence less cooling and lubrication).
> BTW that cylinder looks very simular to a Redmax strato-charged engine. I wonder if Stihl didnt buy some of Redmax's older technology as they are the industry leader in two stroke, emmissions compliant engines?



Hmmmmmmmmm now thats a new one, Redmax is the leader in two stroke emmissions compliant engines, hmm. I didn't know Redmax was the leader in anything but they do put out a pretty catalog. I read it too,,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## sugarbush (Aug 17, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Hmmmmmmmmm now thats a new one, Redmax is the leader in two stroke emmissions compliant engines, hmm. I didn't know Redmax was the leader in anything but they do put out a pretty catalog. I read it too,,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


I thought redmax was some kind of snuff.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 17, 2006)

sugarbush said:


> I thought redmax was some kind of snuff.



Awwwwwwwww Sugar shame on you,lol. I've piddled with a few of Redmax blowers but haven't seen many of their saws in my area. Their blowers run strong, real strong as a matter of fact but they aren't a neat package. Got wires hanging out in the open and the controls aren't much to brag about either. They do run good though, can't fault them there. 
Hey Sugar I got a nice phone call this morning from ole Spike60. That sucker called me up and said is this the saw shop. I said yup. He goes what do you do with a saw covered in sap. I hollered put it in the Cuda,lolol. Spike is quiet a trickster,lol. For a second I thought it was Sap. I would have shot the bull with Sap as well. 
Spike is gonna send me a Dolmar shirt to wear to work Sugar, whatcha think? I'm gonna wear it to work and have alittle fun with the customers trying to sell Stihl while wearing a Dolmar shirt, should be fun. If I get fired Sugar I'm coming to work for you so grow lots of mators cause I'll be staying at your house and I like mators Sugar, deal?


----------



## bwalker (Aug 17, 2006)

> Hmmmmmmmmm now thats a new one, Redmax is the leader in two stroke emmissions compliant engines, hmm. I didn't know Redmax was the leader in anything but they do put out a pretty catalog. I read it too,,


 Do a patent search and get back with me.  
Redmax has most of the patents for compliant engines tied up. So much so that many companies have bought technology from them. Stihl has done so with Redmax in the past and it wouldnt supprise me if they did so with this 441 as it looks very simular.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 17, 2006)

bwalker said:


> Do a patent search and get back with me.
> Redmax has most of the patents for compliant engines tied up. So much so that many companies have bought technology from them. Stihl has done so with Redmax in the past and it wouldnt supprise me if they did so with this 441 as it looks very simular.



I got a better idea , you do the search and convince me. Your the one tooting Redmax's horn so show us whatcha got......


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 17, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> "RedMax's Strato-charge engine received mixed reviews at first, mainly because it ran quieter, and users equate noise with power. But customers warmed to it when they found it cut fuel consumption by 34%. The engine received a ringing endorsement in 1999 when Stihl bought 60,000 of them to help make its products compliant in California."
> 
> http://www.opeesa.com/archivenewsletters/newsarchiveMay5_03.htm



Now I find that amazing. Seems a few posts back Bwalker was groaning how strato charge engines run super hot and on and on when its on the 441 but when its on a Redmax he raves. Thanks for the info Tree, I knew one of you two would prove my point for me.....


----------



## sugarbush (Aug 17, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Awwwwwwwww Sugar shame on you,lol. I've piddled with a few of Redmax blowers but haven't seen many of their saws in my area. Their blowers run strong, real strong as a matter of fact but they aren't a neat package. Got wires hanging out in the open and the controls aren't much to brag about either. They do run good though, can't fault them there.
> Hey Sugar I got a nice phone call this morning from ole Spike60. That sucker called me up and said is this the saw shop. I said yup. He goes what do you do with a saw covered in sap. I hollered put it in the Cuda,lolol. Spike is quiet a trickster,lol. For a second I thought it was Sap. I would have shot the bull with Sap as well.
> Spike is gonna send me a Dolmar shirt to wear to work Sugar, whatcha think? I'm gonna wear it to work and have alittle fun with the customers trying to sell Stihl while wearing a Dolmar shirt, should be fun. If I get fired Sugar I'm coming to work for you so grow lots of mators cause I'll be staying at your house and I like mators Sugar, deal?


never seen a redmax saw or blower so couldn't say anything about'm. you can work for me any time, anybody with your gift of gab has to be a + for any shop. grow mators? you bet. we'll set up a stand at the end of the road.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 17, 2006)

sugarbush said:


> never seen a redmax saw or blower so couldn't say anything about'm. you can work for me any time, anybody with your gift of gab has to be a + for any shop. grow mators? you bet. we'll set up a stand at the end of the.



Cool beans Sugar. Grow them mators and I'll load up the truck and we'll have a big ole shin dig at your shop. Buy a saw get one bushel of mators, by Joe we'll roll them Dolmars out the door,lol


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 17, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> It's no secret the 441 is Stihl's effort to meet future emission standards.
> 
> Likely the Stihl 441 does run super hot and will have a short life span.
> 
> No one has said the Redmax engines don't run super hot too.



Its more likely and very obvious in this thread that a few, including you, are reaching for straws just to be blowing smoke. Now its getting better. You say now its likely the 441 will have a short life span. Stilh claims 30% longer. Who do you think we're going to be believe, a person that has yet to touch one or the company that made it, go figure...

BTW I'll take the 441 temp the next time I run it just for you Tree. We'll see if it has a fever when it runs.....


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 17, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> That would be nice.
> 
> I must admit it's funny that Stihl has been putting dollars in Redmax's pocket.......and buying engines at that! LOL



Haha, even funnier is they used some of your money Tree when you bought those 12 Stihls, they thank you,,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## bwalker (Aug 17, 2006)

I have never tooted redmax's horn. I would ever consider buying one of their saws.
I do own a Redmax blower that I bought for a great price from a factory rep. It uses a strato engine that is heavier and does run hotter than the traditional two cycle it replaced.


> I got a better idea , you do the search and convince me. Your the one tooting Redmax's horn so show us whatcha got......


 You get off your lazy azz and do it. Of course its easier to go through life being ignorant and spouting MFG claims as gospel with no independent thought in evaluating them....


----------



## bwalker (Aug 17, 2006)

> I must admit it's funny that Stihl has been putting dollars in Redmax's pocket.......and buying engines at that! LOL


 Stihl really didnt have a choice. Redmax has the patents locked.FWIW Stihl is not the only one to buy their technology.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 17, 2006)

bwalker said:


> I have never tooted redmax's horn. I would ever consider buying one of their saws.
> I do own a Redmax blower that I bought for a great price from a factory rep. It uses a strato engine that is heavier and does run hotter than the traditional two cycle it replaced.
> 
> You get off your lazy azz and do it. Of course its easier to go through life being ignorant and spouting MFG claims as gospel with no independent thought in evaluating them....



Naaaaaaaaaa I don't think so Bwalker. Fact is you been groaing in this thread and now your getting tissy because you've been called on it. You made the claim and Tree researched for you, talk about lazy, man. Anyway here is your research Bwalker. Stihl 600 plus patents and heres the one you will love, No.1 in the world, where does Redmax rate? Nuff said. BTW Bwalker I own more saws than you have probly ever tried so its not me that tooting horns without knowing, its you...


----------



## bwalker (Aug 17, 2006)

> BTW I'll take the 441 temp the next time I run it just for you Tree. We'll see if it has a fever when it runs.....


 And what would you expect to find? The increase in mass will aid in cooling so it might actually run around the same temp as a traditional saw. The extra heat generated by the motor necisitates the beefier parts and increased mass.


> Fact is you been groaing in this thread and now your getting tissy because you've been called on it.


 So you call interjecting some facts intoa emotional Stihl love fest groaning? 
Further you have called me on nothing other than to ask me to do research for YOU, which i will not. I have already done so and I knwo the answer.


----------



## bcorradi (Aug 17, 2006)

bwalker said:


> Stihl dealers might be more credibal IMO if you didnt continue to say the 260 is a great saw and that the 290-390 are good saws as well. The 260 is a over priced under power, over vibrating club and ditto the 290-390 except they are heavy as well.:deadhorse:
> Then there is the whole thing that Stihl could sell a orange dog turd and you guys would proclaim it as tops. Thats my 2 cents.





bwalker said:


> Open the muffler and get the carb tuned right and a 026 really sings. I really like me 026 pro so far.



By reading your past comments on the 026/260 its hard to tell where you really stand. Are you going to come back and say well i thought the 026 was a great saw till i tried something else?


----------



## bwalker (Aug 17, 2006)

Thall, wrong again buddy, Komatsu-Zenoa AKA redmax is way bigger than Stihl. Its no comparision.
stihl may very well have 600 patents, but the fact remains redmax has the starto charged engine patents locked as they have been making these engines for over ten years.


----------



## bwalker (Aug 17, 2006)

> By reading your past comments on the 026/260 its hard to tell where you really stand. Are you going to come back and say well i thought the 026 was a great saw till i tried something else?


 Thats exactly what I am saying, Brad. At one time I was very brand loyal(to Stihl), but now I am a mercenary. I run whats performs. 
The only thing that the 260 has going for it is thats its stone reliable. Other than that its a boat anchor in every category that counts.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 17, 2006)

bwalker said:


> And what would you expect to find? The increase in mass will aid in cooling so it might actually run around the same temp as a traditional saw. The extra heat generated by the motor necisitates the beefier parts and increased mass.




Well Tree tells me its most likely the 441 will have a short life span due to running hot. I figured I'd check the temp and put a raditor on it if I have to in order to keep it cool,lol. I mean listening to you and Tree I'm regrettting I ever bought that thing now,NOT. The both of you should stop talking and start using the saw first and then come back with real opinions instead of all these assumtions. What I said about it is true, I used it. Hey it even got up to full temp and guess what it didn't melt, its still alive,lol. It was super smooth and ran dayumm good. Why you two have such a problem with that is very obvious. Sadly though this ole boy see's it for what it is..


----------



## bwalker (Aug 17, 2006)

Thall, I might give one a try, but ZI already have 3 372's than run smooth and will smoke it performance wise.
i aint proclaiming it king till I run it myself for a extended period(which you havent) or some credibal person other than dealer gives a report.
So far the reports I have heard from people without a vested interest are that its smooth, heavy and slow.


----------



## elmnut (Aug 17, 2006)

Some Filthy McNasty stole my 440, so of to the shop I went. Got ahold of a new 441 magnum-675.00 plus tax. I haven't stopped smiling since this morning! lighter, more power. Everyone should get one asap!


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 17, 2006)

bwalker said:


> Thall, wrong again buddy, Komatsu-Zenoa AKA redmax is way bigger than Stihl. Its no comparision.
> stihl may very well have 600 patents, but the fact remains redmax has the starto charged engine patents locked as they have been making these engines for over ten years.




Komatsu is indeed a huge company, hell everyone knows that ole "buddy". Fork lifts, dozers, heavy equipment, a huge company. However when it comes to their small equipment they aren't even a major player. They don't care, their money is elsewhere. I never said Stihl was bigger than Komatsu, I said Stihl was No.1 in saws. Thats a fact. Komatsu could care less so why do you??


----------



## bcorradi (Aug 17, 2006)

bwalker said:


> Thats exactly what I am saying, Brad. At one time I was very brand loyal(to Stihl), but now I am a mercenary. I run whats performs.
> The only thing that the 260 has going for it is thats its stone reliable. Other than that its a boat anchor in every category that counts.



I guess unless I misintrepretted your previous posts really sings != boat anchor? I've been a member of AS for quite some time now and I've noticed a pattern that you seem to follow. 

You had purchased an 260 pro a while back and then you had some issues with the carb and you didn't like the air filter system. Eventhough you have been quoted as saying the saw is a great saw now you bash them along with Stihl in general. 

Then you went out and purchased a Dolmar 7900 and you liked that saw also, but then had an oiler issue with it. You had some problems getting parts from the dolmar distribution network so you have bashed Dolmars ever since. Eventhough other Dolmar dealers on here have told you that they haven't seen the oiler issue you claim on the saws they have sold, you continue to bash Dolmar in general. You claim that the parts distribution network stinks and always come back and say the oiler on the 7900 is poorly designed.

Now you buy mostly Huskies and think they are the best saw out there. If your pattern follows the past history you will discover something wrong with one of your huskies and then your going to have to move on to another brand like Redmax, Echo, Efco, etc. 

I'm not going to go on here and toot any of the manufacturers horns, but judging from your past pattern/quotes your credibility is lacking imo.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 17, 2006)

bwalker said:


> Thall, I might give one a try, but ZI already have 3 372's than run smooth and will smoke it performance wise.
> i aint proclaiming it king till I run it myself for a extended period(which you havent) or some credibal person other than dealer gives a report.
> So far the reports I have heard from people without a vested interest are that its smooth, heavy and slow.



Well B if you already have saws that will smoke saws you have never tried why try them. Seems to me your just in a arguing mood tonite B, whats up with that? If I were you I wouldn't buy a 441, no way. You got the best already according to you so save your money. Besides you might like and I hear crow doesn't taste too good. So don't buy one and we'll have nothing to fuss about, hows that B, deal?


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 17, 2006)

elmnut said:


> Some Filthy McNasty stole my 440, so of to the shop I went. Got ahold of a new 441 magnum-675.00 plus tax. I haven't stopped smiling since this morning! lighter, more power. Everyone should get one asap!



Ok my freind spill the beans more so. I'm accused of merely advertising the 441 to some that have yet to touch one but have conculded I'm just yaking about it. Lets hear your input on your new 441.


----------



## formersawrep (Aug 17, 2006)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwalker
Thats exactly what I am saying, Brad. At one time I was very brand loyal(to Stihl), but now I am a mercenary. I run whats performs. 
The only thing that the 260 has going for it is thats its stone reliable. Other than that its a boat anchor in every category that counts. 


I guess unless I misintrepretted your previous posts really sings != boat anchor? I've been a member of AS for quite some time now and I've noticed a pattern that you seem to follow. 

You had purchased an 260 pro a while back and then you had some issues with the carb and you didn't like the air filter system. Eventhough you have been quoted as saying the saw is a great saw now you bash them along with Stihl in general. 

Then you went out and purchased a Dolmar 7900 and you liked that saw also, but then had an oiler issue with it. You had some problems getting parts from the dolmar distribution network so you have bashed Dolmars ever since. Eventhough other Dolmar dealers on here have told you that they haven't seen the oiler issue you claim on the saws they have sold, you continue to bash Dolmar in general. You claim that the parts distribution network stinks and always come back and say the oiler on the 7900 is poorly designed.

Now you buy mostly Huskies and think they are the best saw out there. If your pattern follows the past history you will discover something wrong with one of your huskies and then your going to have to move on to another brand like Redmax, Echo, Efco, etc. 

I'm not going to go on here and toot any of the manufacturers horns, but judging from your past pattern/quotes your credibility is lacking imo.
________________________________________________________________
BCorradi-
You could not be more correct. He is a know it all POS (that does not stand for point of sale bwalk) that loves to exercise his superior intellect on the likes of the lowly AS members. If you are bored enough search his posts and you will find topics as technical as his factual claim that cylinders are not actually round???? to the electronic drubbing that he has given saw builders. 

He is a legend in his own mind!


----------



## stihlatit (Aug 17, 2006)

bwalker said:


> Thats exactly what I am saying, Brad. At one time I was very brand loyal(to Stihl), but now I am a mercenary. I run whats performs.
> The only thing that the 260 has going for it is thats its stone reliable. Other than that its a boat anchor in every category that counts.



Every time I swing my boat anchor another tree gets limbed. Fantastic saw my 026 pro.

Nothing wrong with Husky either it is my second choice. I have just not had to go to my second choice. I believe that my stable of saws are of the best that Stihl has built. I may add a 441 soon. Then the only ting missing is a 200T


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 17, 2006)

Well I go for day long bike ride and this place goes to hell..:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 17, 2006)

04ultra said:


> Well I go for day long bike ride and this place goes to hell..:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:



Naaaaaaaaaaaaa I wouldn't say all that. Just some good ole saw talk going on among friends, shoot we all cool, aren't we Tree and B? Just good ole saw talk...


----------



## bwalker (Aug 17, 2006)

> I guess unless I misintrepretted your previous posts really sings != boat anchor? I've been a member of AS for quite some time now and I've noticed a pattern that you seem to follow.
> 
> You had purchased an 260 pro a while back and then you had some issues with the carb and you didn't like the air filter system. Eventhough you have been quoted as saying the saw is a great saw now you bash them along with Stihl in general.
> 
> ...


 Brad, I call it as I see it.
The 7900 does have a oiler issue and others besides my self had problems(AS members). Dolmar updated the hose to fix it(band aid fix). Dolmars parts distrinution network still stinks..nothings changed and my local guy dropped them. 
As for the 260 I bought the saw in 2000 if memory serves me correct. It came with a fixed jet carb so lean that had I not tached it it would have lean seized. My dealer( a very good stihl dealer) replaced the carb with a older adjustable model off a parts saw free of charge.
The fixed jet carb is a POS and thats universialy acknowledge by people who actually run saws. The air filter is small and leaks like a seive around the choke linkage. The antivibe sytem is old school. It does cut much slower than a 5100 or a 346. It does cost more. These are all facts and credibility in your eyes has nothing to do with it.
I have also been runnign Huksy 372's for several years, as well as 440's. i can reccomend both without reservation. I have a few months on a 346 and really like it except for a few minor things like the archaic outboard clutch.
Stick to the facts......


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 17, 2006)

I'm about 5 pages behind in this thread.

Anyone know which Stihl model (wasn't a saws or a blower, so must be a trimmer?) those 60,000 redmax engines in 1999 went into? At a first glance, I don't know where they fit. Wasn't much in a 1999/2000 models much different to that of 1990...

Stratocharging is the way Stihl intends to meet emission standards going forward, so I bet we'll all see a bunch of new models in the next two years, if not all of them. I hear that all models marketed will be compliant with 2009 regulations by 2008... Lot's of our old favorites will be going by the wayside, and not just Stihl. 

Patents locked up? Well ... Stihl (like all other big companies) does the same thing with patents (patent everything you can), then the big boys horse trade... Nothing wrong with that.

As for the venerable 026... 18 years and still going strong. Sure, it's a bit behind the newest offerings by a few others, but so what? I liked in in 1990, and I still like it. It will get updated in due course, probably sooner than later.

Here's a pop quiz for you all: which is the earliest model saw that took combustion air from the flywheel - like late model Husky and the MS441?


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 17, 2006)

bwalker said:


> Brad, i call it as I see it.
> The 7900 does have a oiler issue and others besides my self had problems. Dolmar updated the hose to fix it(band aid fix). Dolmars parts distrinution network still stinks..nothings changed and my local guy dropped them.
> As for the 260 I bought the saw in 2000 if memory serves me correct. IOt came with a fixed jet carb so lean that had I not tached it it would have lean seized. My dealer( a very good stihl dealer) replaced the carb with a older adjustable model off a parts saw free of charge.
> The fixed jet carb is a POS and thats universialy acknowledge by people who actually run saws. the air filter is small and leaks like a seive around the choke linkage. The antivibe sytem is old school. It does cut much slower than a 5100 or a 346. It does cost more. These are all facts and credibility in your eyes has nothing to do with it.



B why don't you tell the whole story about that Dolmar, your leaving out one important part. Terry Green tried his damnest to send you a free oil hose but you refuse and instead bashed Dolmar to no end. Terry tried and tried to please you and striaghten out your oiler issue. You wouldn't let him, you took the route of I'd rather bash instead of solving the probelm. You got a very selective memory..........


----------



## bwalker (Aug 17, 2006)

> BCorradi-
> You could not be more correct. He is a know it all POS (that does not stand for point of sale bwalk) that loves to exercise his superior intellect on the likes of the lowly AS members. If you are bored enough search his posts and you will find topics as technical as his factual claim that cylinders are not actually round???? to the electronic drubbing that he has given saw builders.


What genious you are.opcorn: 
Youc an provide only one example where I was technicly wrong( I admitted as much) because my memory confused the piston(which isnt round) with the cylinder(which is).
Crawl back in your hole, Hasbeensawrep.
As for the builder givena drubbing. The bastad deserved it and went on to rip off multiple people after I and others brought his shortcoming to light. Go only knows how many more he would have screwed had he not been exposed. Your casting yourself in real poor company sticking up for him.


----------



## stihlatit (Aug 17, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> B why don't you tell the whole story about that Dolmar, your leaving out one important part. Terry Green tried his damnest to send you a free oil hose but you refuse and instead bashed Dolmar to no end. Terry tried and tried to please you and striaghten out your oiler issue. You wouldn't let him, you took the route of I'd rather bash instead of solving the probelm. You got a very selective memory..........



That would be typical Ben. Nothing new there Tom.


----------



## bwalker (Aug 17, 2006)

> B why don't you tell the whole story about that Dolmar, your leaving out one important part. Terry Green tried his damnest to send you a free oil hose but you refuse and instead bashed Dolmar to no end. Terry tried and tried to please you and striaghten out your oiler issue. You wouldn't let him, you took the route of I'd rather bash instead of solving the probelm. You got a very selective memory..........


 Your not telling the whole story and your flat out wrong...Dave Neiger was kind enough to send me one before Terry offered....It did squat to fix the problem as the interferance fit was the same as the original hose.
I only talked to Terry via PM twice. FWIW he acknowledged at that time that Dolmar had a issue with some saws.


----------



## bwalker (Aug 17, 2006)

> That would be typical Ben. Nothing new there Tom.


 wahst wrong Arnie? You a little sore after the CAW dumped the NDP like a hot potato?


----------



## Stihldoc (Aug 17, 2006)

Cool- a dogfight. Time to grab another vodka tonic and watch a few guys get put in jail. What was the thread of this topic anyway?


----------



## stihlatit (Aug 17, 2006)

bwalker said:


> wahst wrong Arnie? You a little sore after the CAW dumped the NDP like a hot potato?



Hargrove always was a Liberal and You must be getting flustered as you are starting to mispell words. I can send you the emails of our debate on that if you wish.


----------



## bwalker (Aug 17, 2006)

> Komatsu is indeed a huge company, hell everyone knows that ole "buddy". Fork lifts, dozers, heavy equipment, a huge company. However when it comes to their small equipment they aren't even a major player.


 But they still have the patents that Stihl needs/wants. Hence Stihl pays their price.


----------



## sawinredneck (Aug 17, 2006)

*Love Is In The Air...........*

....I CAN FEEL IT EVERYWHERE................    :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## stihlatit (Aug 17, 2006)

Stihldoc said:


> Cool- a dogfight. Time to grab another vodka tonic and watch a few guys get put in jail. What was the thread of this topic anyway?



Thread is becoming lets thump Ben.:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 17, 2006)

bwalker said:


> As for the 260 I bought the saw in 2000 if memory serves me correct. It came with a fixed jet carb so lean that had I not tached it it would have lean seized. My dealer( a very good stihl dealer) replaced the carb with a older adjustable model off a parts saw free of charge.
> The fixed jet carb is a POS and thats universialy acknowledge by people who actually run saws. The air filter is small and leaks like a seive around the choke linkage. The antivibe sytem is old school. It does cut much slower than a 5100 or a 346. It does cost more. These are all facts and credibility in your eyes has nothing to do with it.
> .




Fixed jet carbs on pro saws are a thing of the past - and were only in place on the 026 for 3 years. Unusual that yours was so lean - most runs so rich the saw tops out at 12,000, and that's at sea level. You had a bad carb, or other problem.

Stihl wanted to get rid of the 026 two years ago, but there was a small problem - they kept getting bought in big quantities. So the cylinder, piston, carb and muffler were messed with to meet emissions standards again.

As much the air filter isn't the greatest design, It's one heck of a reliable saw, the engine lasts in spite of the filter so it can't leak all that bad. We've had this discussion before... I don't see any any more crud inside the 026 air filter than I find inside an 036 and many other saws. If you want a filter that is really bad for dirt inside, look at an 200T sometime. But they last and they took the market.


I'd sure hope the 5100S cuts better than the 026 - there is a big age difference! And with some competition, it will just make Stihl and Husky better at what they do.


----------



## bwalker (Aug 17, 2006)

> Anyone know which Stihl model (wasn't a saws or a blower, so must be a trimmer?) those 60,000 redmax engines in 1999 went into? At a first glance, I don't know where they fit. Wasn't much in a 1999/2000 models much different to that of 1990...


 It was a trimmer and my dad actually owns one. Says made in Japan on it. The model number escapes me(fs 55 or 75 maybe?) but if you do a search you might find it mentioned on AS. The Redmax rep that I bought my blower form mentioned what model number it was awhile back.


----------



## Mr. (Aug 17, 2006)

Ben. I was with my buddy the other day when layed down 2.5 cord of wood in about 45 mins with that PP084. Thought of you.

Fred


----------



## elmnut (Aug 17, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Ok my freind spill the beans more so. I'm accused of merely advertising the 441 to some that have yet to touch one but have conculded I'm just yaking about it. Lets hear your input on your new 441.


The saw only got about 2 hours run time today, but everything about it is user friendly, most features are borrowed from other saw manufacturers, two butterflies on the carb set up. All I can say is I was impressed. Having owned 372xps and 394xps 44s 440s 66s 660s 84s and 88s this is a great production removal saw.


----------



## bwalker (Aug 17, 2006)

> Hargrove always was a Liberal and You must be getting flustered as you are starting to mispell words. I can send you the emails of our debate on that if you wish.


 Must feel nice to be on board a sinking ship with the fiberals.


----------



## Uwharrie (Aug 17, 2006)

Stating the Facts: Strato-charged engines do run hotter than Non strato-charged engines. What does this mean? Longer engine life on non strato-charged engines. 

Is the MS441 engine better than the MS440 engine? Probably not. Is the MS441 smoother than a MS440? Yes most definitely. Is it a better saw? Only time will tell.

Why Strato-Charged engines? EPA 

Why don't all saws have to pass this EPA ruling? A manufacturer has to build a certain percentage of engines that pass thereby allowing them to build some regular engines. 

Am I Pro Strato-Charged or Not? As with all engines, some Strato-Charged engines preform better than others and it's up to each individual product.

Our Store sells RedMax, 
Stihl, Husqvarna, Dolmar and Shindaiwa two cycle products. First company to sell a strato-charged saw was RedMax, then Husqvarna (455 and 570,575 ) and now Stihl.


----------



## stihlatit (Aug 17, 2006)

So Andy you are basically saying that Ben bought at a bad time. He got a bad year of the 026 with the fixed jets but he chooses to bash all 026's.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 17, 2006)

bwalker said:


> Your not telling the whole story and your flat out wrong...Dave Neiger was kind enough to send me one before Terry offered....It did squat to fix the problem as the interferance fit was the same as the original hose.
> I only talked to Terry via PM twice. FWIW he acknowledged at that time that Dolmar had a issue with some saws.



Yup yup. Ya know B, you seem be a hard man to please. Two Dolmar guys couldn't make you happy, man your one tuff sucker.....


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 17, 2006)

bwalker said:


> But they still have the patents that Stihl needs/wants. Hence Stihl pays their price.




Ben: you don't know that. Maybe Stihl has something they wanted also? And I don't know that for fact either, but I can find out.


----------



## stihlatit (Aug 17, 2006)

bwalker said:


> Must feel nice to be on board a sinking ship with the fiberals.



I stayed on the other ship. It's afloat.


----------



## bwalker (Aug 17, 2006)

> Fixed jet carbs on pro saws are a thing of the past - and were only in place on the 026 for 3 years. Unusual that yours was so lean - most runs so rich the saw tops out at 12,000, and that's at sea level. You had a bad carb, or other problem.
> 
> Stihl wanted to get rid of the 026 two years ago, but there was a small problem - they kept getting bought in big quantities. So the cylinder, piston, carb and muffler were messed with to meet emissions standards again.
> 
> ...


 My delaer speculated that my 260 was a saw destined for a high altitude market hence the fixed jet was two sizes smaller than normal. i forg ot the sizes as it was some time ago.
The 036 has the sam lousy air filter albeit a bit bigger. i owned one of them too.
There is a big age differance, but that doesnt stop Stihl form charging very high prices in coomparision to the others.


----------



## sawinredneck (Aug 17, 2006)

OK, for those of us not in the "know", what does "strato charging" really mean, or entail?
Andy


----------



## bwalker (Aug 17, 2006)

> Yup yup. Ya know B, you seem be a hard man to please. Two Dolmar guys couldn't make you happy, man your one tuff sucker.....


 They didnt fix the problem and thats all there is to it.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 17, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> Ben: you don't know that. Maybe Stihl has something they wanted also? And I don't know that for fact either, but I can find out.



The engine Ben is speaking of that was used in Calif was put on the FS83 trimmer. I don't recall it ever being used on a saw. Then again if I'm wrong i'm sure Ben will correct me...


----------



## Mr. (Aug 17, 2006)

Thinking about a PP441 right now.

Fred


----------



## stihlatit (Aug 17, 2006)

bwalker said:


> My delaer speculated that my 260 was a saw destined for a high altitude market hence the fixed jet was two sizes smaller than normal. i forg ot the sizes as it was some time ago.
> The 036 has the sam lousy air filter albeit a bit bigger. i owned one of them too.
> There is a big age differance, but that doesnt stop Stihl form charging very high prices in coomparision to the others.



The truth is coming out now you are just to cheap to buy the best.


----------



## bwalker (Aug 17, 2006)

> OK, for those of us not in the "know", what does "strato charging" really mean, or entail?
> Andy


 I short its a system that places a plug of fresh air between the exhaust and the fresh charge so that the cylinder is scavenged with fresh air instead of fuel/air mix. Cuts emmissions and increases fuel economy.


----------



## bwalker (Aug 17, 2006)

> The truth is coming out now you are just to cheap to buy the best.


 The only thing the 026 does best is the lighten your wallet!


----------



## stihlatit (Aug 17, 2006)

bwalker said:


> The only thing the 026 does best is the lighten your wallet!



It has paid for itself many times over. It puts money in my wallet.


----------



## stihlatit (Aug 17, 2006)

BTW nice of you to drop in Ben. Must be boring at the other site. A lot more action and information here. I guess thats why you dropped in. LOL.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 17, 2006)

bwalker said:


> It was a trimmer and my dad actually owns one. Says made in Japan on it. The model number escapes me(fs 55 or 75 maybe?) but if you do a search you might find it mentioned on AS. The Redmax rep that I bought my blower form mentioned what model number it was awhile back.




I know the Japanese manufactured models real well, but there isn't anything in those that resembled any startling "emission" technology. Because they were unable to keep up with demand, Stihl outsourced from several companies in the 90's, including IDC (USA) for the likes of the FS36 and 44, and others for the larger machines- it was simply a demand/supply issue.

My favorite of the Japanese made models is the FS88. A beautiful and well built machine that proved way too costly to keep making, unfortunately.

I'll dig around at work - I have the outsourced manufacturer data somewhere.


----------



## sawinredneck (Aug 17, 2006)

Thanks Ben.
Andy


----------



## stihlatit (Aug 17, 2006)

Hey Ben have you run a 441? 

Hey Ben have you ever owned a 026 pro without fixed jets.

If not ****.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 17, 2006)

bwalker said:


> They didnt fix the problem and thats all ther eis to it.



Well I'm glad of one thing, I see folks call you Ben, now I know your name, hello Ben, how ya doing ole buddy. Back to the problem. So since your problem couldn't be corrected then all Dolmars are in your opinion are junk now. Since the 026 didn't suit you either they are all junk now. Since you don't have a clue about the 441 your already assumming problems. Seems to me the problem isn't none of the saws, the problem is you. I think since your such a great hack saw builder like your avatar implies you should just build your own saw and then you will have nothing to groan about. Oppppppppps, I forgot, thats your real thing. Its said some people aren't happy unless they are arguing and fussing and groaning about something, means your one happy camper Ben. Good to see your happy Ben. I'm sitting here happy too.


----------



## Uwharrie (Aug 17, 2006)

http://www.zenoah.net/tech/str_index.html
Link to RedMax Strato-Charged engines.


----------



## bcorradi (Aug 17, 2006)

bwalker said:


> Brad, I call it as I see it.
> The 7900 does have a oiler issue and others besides my self had problems(AS members). Dolmar updated the hose to fix it(band aid fix). Dolmars parts distrinution network still stinks..nothings changed and my local guy dropped them.
> As for the 260 I bought the saw in 2000 if memory serves me correct. It came with a fixed jet carb so lean that had I not tached it it would have lean seized. My dealer( a very good stihl dealer) replaced the carb with a older adjustable model off a parts saw free of charge.
> The fixed jet carb is a POS and thats universialy acknowledge by people who actually run saws. The air filter is small and leaks like a seive around the choke linkage. The antivibe sytem is old school. It does cut much slower than a 5100 or a 346. It does cost more. These are all facts and credibility in your eyes has nothing to do with it.
> ...


Wasn't the 346 available when you purchased your 260? You liked your 260 a lot after you bought it also so saying you like the 346 a lot isn't saying much. So your stihl dealer let that 260 out of his shop running so lean that you would have lean seized it? I've played with a lot of 026's/260's in my life and have never seen a fixed jet carb have that issue. Wasn't the carb that your stihl dealer put on the carb that you had to adjust daily? You also thought that was fairly normal. It just seems that the problems that you have experienced with some of the saws you've owned doesn't seem to fit with the general consensus of what others that own the same models have experienced. To make matters worse you tend to bash/rehash/and rebash the companies and those models over and over and over. 

You told me to stick to the facts. Quote something I said that isn't factual.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 17, 2006)

bwalker said:


> I short its a system that places a plug of fresh air between the exhaust and the fresh charge so that the cylinder is scavenged with fresh air instead of fuel/air mix. Cuts emmissions and increases fuel economy.




Adding to the above - look at the pictures early in the thread of the piston. You can see the "hollow areas" that carry the "plug" of air. 

My concern with this approach is piston skirt wear. These engines will be far less tolerant of wear from dirty air than conventional designs. And as much as the answer is obvious - keep your filters clean - most don't, both pros and homeowners. I'd guess at 1 saw in 10 that I see in the store has an acceptably maintained air cleaner.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 17, 2006)

bwalker said:


> I short its a system that places a plug of fresh air between the exhaust and the fresh charge so that the cylinder is scavenged with fresh air instead of fuel/air mix. Cuts emmissions and increases fuel economy.



Now your stating fact there Ben, thats what it is. You didn't mention the little reed type valves that let the air in the cylinder but thats ok. Stihl uses a strato engine on the TS700 and 800 too. They run great...


----------



## Mr. (Aug 17, 2006)

Too true. Raw gas is a lubricant and a saw engine needs mix gas. Raw air?

Been thinking about 32-1 in the pp0441.

Fred


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 17, 2006)

bwalker said:


> My delaer speculated that my 260 was a saw destined for a high altitude market hence the fixed jet was two sizes smaller than normal. i forg ot the sizes as it was some time ago.
> The 036 has the sam lousy air filter albeit a bit bigger. i owned one of them too.
> There is a big age differance, but that doesnt stop Stihl form charging very high prices in coomparision to the others.




Stihl make all their saws for 300 feet agl. A dealer has to change the jet if it's required for above 4000 feet.

The 036 is different - the choke is part of the carb. The is no leak at the "linkage" as there isn't one. 

Stihl can charge whatever they like. Nobody has to buy them. The only reason the others might be priced less is to sell them. Heck, if Stihl dropped their prices the others would all go broke!


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 17, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Now your stating fact there Ben, thats what it is. You didn't mention the little reed type valves that let the air in the cylinder but thats ok. Stihl uses a strato engine on the TS700 and 800 too. They run great...




These little reeds are just beauties at 14,000 rpm!:rockn:


----------



## Marco (Aug 17, 2006)

After reading 14 pages of this I am starting to wonder just how bad one of them there Chinese 038 mag clones are and what DHL would soak me to get one here in a plain brown wrapper.


----------



## stihlatit (Aug 17, 2006)

Marco said:


> After reading 14 pages of this I am starting to wonder just how bad one of them there Chinese 038 mag clones are and what DHL would soak me to get one here in a plain brown wrapper.



Marco I believe some of the guys tried them and posted here to stay away from them as they did not last to long. Maybe Ben has one. Do a search here before you buy.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 17, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> These little reeds are just beauties at 14,000 rpm!:rockn:



I don't know Lake, I just took my 441 back. Yup I was convinced it would overheat and not live long. The "experts" told me so what else could I do Lake. I asked them how they knew, did theirs do that, and they claim they haven't used one yet, left me scratching my head but I know they know more than Stihl so I took it back and traded it in on a two guys and a cross cut saw. Guess who is pulling that cross cut saw,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## stihlatit (Aug 17, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> I don't know Lake, I just took my 441 back. Yup I was convinced it would overheat and not live long. The "experts" told me so what else could I do Lake. I asked them how they knew, did theirs do that, and they claim they haven't used one yet, left me scratching my head but I know they know more than Stihl so I took it back and traded it in on a two guys and a cross cut saw. Guess who is pulling that cross cut saw,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:



Is it Ben pulling the other end LOL.:taped: :taped:


----------



## sawinredneck (Aug 18, 2006)

See if I got this right: The smaller throttle plate (lower one on the carb) is not for an intake charge, that is the secondary air inlet for the "puff" of fresh air on the exaust side. Close?
Andy


----------



## Marco (Aug 18, 2006)

Better watch what you feed your boys on the crosscut or that won't meet emissions.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 18, 2006)

stihlatit said:


> Is it Ben pulling the other end LOL.:taped: :taped:



Awwwwwwwwwww Arnie, you dog you,lololol. I was just teasin. Arnie throw that ole 026 away, I just pitched mine after 10 years of trouble free service. Never had one single problem with it although I'm not above cleaning the air filter. Anyway its in the dump now. Only got 21 more Stihl's to toss,hahaha, NOT.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 18, 2006)

sawinredneck said:


> See if I got this right: The smaller throttle plate (lower one on the carb) is not for an intake charge, that is the secondary air inlet for the "puff" of fresh air on the exaust side. Close?
> Andy




You didn't read the entire thread... Yes, the bottom intake is JUST fresh air. The carb is pretty much an ordinary Walbo HD with a manifold bolted on the front to accomodate the air intake port. The lower plate is activated by crankcase pressure.


----------



## sawinredneck (Aug 18, 2006)

Not sure how I missed that, not much going on here:hmm3grin2orange: 
Thanks Andy


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 18, 2006)

Marco said:


> Better watch what you feed your boys on the crosscut or that won't meet emissions.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 18, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> You didn't read the entire thread... Yes, the bottom intake is JUST fresh air. The carb is pretty much an ordinary Walbo HD with a manifold bolted on the front to accomodate the air intake port. The lower plate is activated by crankcase pressure.




Durn Lake your slipping. You forgot to say when that air plate opens you gain 60 horsepower,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 18, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Durn Lake your slipping. You forgot to say when that air plate opens you gain 60 horsepower,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:




Never quote a number like that. Ben will just say it's only 59HP, and a POS.

A few drops of Amsoil in that inlet, and :hmm3grin2orange: 

To hell with scavanging. Let's just bolt another carb on the second hole! :help:


----------



## stihlatit (Aug 18, 2006)

Every engine I have ever seen has liked cool damp fresh air.

BTW THall your 441 pictures are being used on other sites. I recognized your toolbox and called him on it. There must be a lack of Sthil representation on the other site. LOL.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 18, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> Never quote a number like that. Ben will just say it's only 59HP, and a POS.
> 
> A few drops of Amsoil in that inlet, and :hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> To hell with scavanging. Let's just bolt another carb on the second hole! :help:



Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr okok, only 59hp increase. Must remember I'm the advertiser Lake, I need every HP I can get,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 18, 2006)

stihlatit said:


> Every engine I have ever seen has liked cool damp fresh air.
> 
> BTW THall your 441 pictures are being used on other sites. I recognized your toolbox and called him on it. There must be a lack of Sthil representation on the other site. LOL.




They are, well I'll be dayumm. Well shoot Arnie thats good. And to think I was accused of advertising and they go and steal my pictures and do it for me,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: I'm liking these guys more and more:yoyo:


----------



## stihlatit (Aug 18, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> They are, well I'll be dayumm. Well shoot Arnie thats good. And to think I was accused of advertising and they go and steal my pictures and do it for me,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: I'm liking these guys more and more:yoyo:



Rahtreelimbs is your ad agency. I just hope you did not lend your saw or camera.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 18, 2006)

stihlatit said:


> Rahtreelimbs is your ad agency. I just hope you did not lend your saw or camera.



Hmmm can't say I know him. Hmmmmmmm is he a Stihl man by chance???


----------



## Just Mow (Aug 18, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> I'm about 5 pages behind in this thread.
> 
> Anyone know which Stihl model (wasn't a saws or a blower, so must be a trimmer?) those 60,000 redmax engines in 1999 went into? At a first glance, I don't know where they fit. Wasn't much in a 1999/2000 models much different to that of 1990...
> 
> ...


It was the FS 83. as for the 441 nothing was bought from Red Max, as you know patents do expire and the patent on the Red Max is Strato-Charged and the Stihl is Stratofied Charge. Just my two cents.


----------



## stihlatit (Aug 18, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Hmmm can't say I know him. Hmmmmmmm is he a Stihl man by chance???




He used to be on this site until his demise. He must visit to rape pilfer and steal what he can as he hangs out more on the other site. He has been banned here but has returned to member status.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 18, 2006)

Just Mow said:


> It was the FS 83. as for the 441 nothing was bought from Red Max, as you know patents do expire and the patent on the Red Max is Strato-Charged and the Stihl is Stratofied Charge. Just my two cents.



Thanks Mow. Glad you cleared it up. This whole thing really amounts to nothing. Its all just fodder. Sorta like those famous words of Clint Eastwood, NAG NAG NAG. Seems some can't smile unless they have something to nag others about. Since it was my saw they were nagging about I think I had a right to nag back. Looks like its over now and thats good. It gets old....


----------



## Just Mow (Aug 18, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Thanks Mow. Glad you cleared it up. This whole thing really amounts to nothing. Its all just fodder. Sorta like those famous words of Clint Eastwood, NAG NAG NAG. Seems some can't smile unless they have something to nag others about. Since it was my saw they were nagging about I think I had a right to nag back. Looks like its over now and thats good. It gets old....



You are welcome. Sure was a lot of reading.


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 18, 2006)

Nice..


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 18, 2006)

Just Mow said:


> You are welcome. Sure was a lot of reading.



Nice collection there, real nice. Whats your thoughts on the saw in question??


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 18, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Nice collection there, real nice. Whats your thoughts on the saw in question??




Ok who's going to tell us what they all are...


BTW nice stack


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 18, 2006)

Just Mow said:


> It was the FS 83.




Yes, you're right! It's one of the rarer machines around... I did see one once - funky diaphragms that act as reeds.


----------



## Just Mow (Aug 18, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Nice collection there, real nice. Whats your thoughts on the saw in question??



Just got it and put it in the wood today. Very smooth with a lot of torque, did not feel any vibration. I put the picture in there so your 441 wouldnt be lonely. The one to the right is a 440 and their is a 192T,200T,200 rear handle,280,361.


----------



## Just Mow (Aug 18, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> Yes, you're right! It's one of the rarer machines around... I did see one once - funky diaphragms that act as reeds.



Was a good unit that erved its purpose until they could make their own. Red Max still makes good equipment , its just their dealer support in my area is horrible. I do not have a lot of experience with Husky or Dolmar for the same reasons. Echo has killed themselves with the Depot and their saws are weak in power.


----------



## belgian (Aug 18, 2006)

I wish I had a Stihl dealer like Andy or Thall in my area   
You sharing tons of good info with us on this site is really helpfull and appreciated. I would glady bring my saw to your shop for service.

You may fiercly stand behind the Stihl brand as they surely make fine saws, but guys like yourselves make the real difference  . 

Andy, glad you like the FS88. I didn't know it had such a nice (japan built ?) engine...


----------



## SawTroll (Aug 18, 2006)

Marco said:


> After reading 14 pages of this .....


You can easily reduce that to only 3 pages if you use the options on this site (select 100 posts per page)....


----------



## belgian (Aug 18, 2006)

Marco said:


> After reading 14 pages of this I ....



It was fun reading though :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## formersawrep (Aug 18, 2006)

bwalker said:


> What genious you are.opcorn:
> Youc an provide only one example where I was technicly wrong( I admitted as much) because my memory confused the piston(which isnt round) with the cylinder(which is).
> Crawl back in your hole, Hasbeensawrep.
> As for the builder givena drubbing. The bastad deserved it and went on to rip off multiple people after I and others brought his shortcoming to light. Go only knows how many more he would have screwed had he not been exposed. Your casting yourself in real poor company sticking up for him.



Well Benny-
As usual you have provided tremendous insight. The only thing I can think of is that humps from MI must be exempt from winning the nobel prize, otherwise you surely would have been awarded it for your knowledge of the lubrication industry alone. 

For someone who is such a mechanical genius, you seem to have a lot of mechanical issues. Snowmobiles blowing up, saws not oiling, pistons hitting tops of cylinders, carbs not working, etc. You cut for your own use in a wood fired exterior furnace, correct? What are you cutting...1,000 cords a year? I have worked with people who ran entire fleets who did not have a fraction of your problems. 

The Stihl trimmer you refer to had a Redmax engine. It was incredibly powerful for it's time, although a little heavy. Stihl bought enough of them to make them emissions compliant.


----------



## spike60 (Aug 18, 2006)

Uwharrie said:


> Stating the Facts: Strato-charged engines do run hotter than Non strato-charged engines. What does this mean? Longer engine life on non strato-charged engines.
> 
> Is the MS441 engine better than the MS440 engine? Probably not. Is the MS441 smoother than a MS440? Yes most definitely. Is it a better saw? Only time will tell.
> 
> ...




Well over 200 posts, and this is really the most accurate overview of the whole strato engine situation. Yes, Red Max was first. Is it patentable technology? Thats for the lawyers to figure out. 

What I don't understand is the sentiment that if a company picks up an idea from someone else, that it makes them chumps, and that they should be ashamed and hang their heads low. What the heck is the point of all of this "we had it first and they copied it" stuff? Let's face it, none of these companies can claim to have invented the 2-cycle engine.

Yes, the mount system on the new 441 looks similar to the Husky system. So??? What's wrong with that? If it makes the saw smoother, that's a good thing right? Wouldn't it be dumber if the Stihl engineers said, "Hey, I got an idea for a great anti-vibe system, but it's a little bit like the one Husky uses, so rather than have people call us names, we'll just use the old system that doesn't work as good."

We are all going to be seeing a lot of new EPA driven technology, such as the strato charged engine. It's far better for all of us if ALL of the companies are working on refining these new technologies, such as Husky and Stihl engineers adding their ideas to what Red Max got started, improving the new types of engines that we are all going to be running.


----------



## bwalker (Aug 18, 2006)

> I know the Japanese manufactured models real well, but there isn't anything in those that resembled any startling "emission" technology.


 That would have been the cali special trimmer.


----------



## bwalker (Aug 18, 2006)

> Hey Ben have you ever owned a 026 pro without fixed jets.
> 
> If not ****.


 Of course I have. And I will be runngin a 441 as soon as I return to the USA.


----------



## bwalker (Aug 18, 2006)

> Well over 200 posts, and this is really the most accurate overview of the whole strato engine situation. Yes, Red Max was first. Is it patentable technology? Thats for the lawyers to figure out.
> 
> What I don't understand is the sentiment that if a company picks up an idea from someone else, that it makes them chumps, and that they should be ashamed and hang their heads low. What the heck is the point of all of this "we had it first and they copied it" stuff? Let's face it, none of these companies can claim to have invented the 2-cycle engine.
> 
> ...


 The technology is patentable as Redmax hold a bunch of patents for it.
No body is bagging on Stihl for using a technology Redmax developed. I wish they would have done it ten years ago when Redmax was getting the bugs worked out of their sytem. It also very likely had Stihl had it nose to the grindstone we would be seeing much better saws today. Face it, Redmax will never be a force in the saw industry.


----------



## bwalker (Aug 18, 2006)

> Stihl make all their saws for 300 feet agl. A dealer has to change the jet if it's required for above 4000 feet.
> 
> The 036 is different - the choke is part of the carb. The is no leak at the "linkage" as there isn't one.
> 
> ...


 Liek I said he was speculating and didnt know for certain why the jet was so small.
As for the 036. That saw uses a filter like the 360 albeit minus the choke as you pointed out. The 036 filter leaked around the area where the two halfs come together.
The price Stihl charges for the 260 is robbery.


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 18, 2006)

Well its time for THALL to send me a demo to put through the big test of strenght ...My 460 was put through the test and failed...The 4960 J/Deere won .. THALL if the demo saw will hold up to my friends kid backing over it with his J/Deere I'll buy one ..Not the one from the test but a new one..Forgot it was on cement...








I will test any brand in a independent test if you send me a saw..Will even take video and pictures... So send me those saws...


----------



## bwalker (Aug 18, 2006)

Dont feel bad ultra. A 7900 is no match for a 440 JD either.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 18, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> MS 440
> STIHL Magnum™ 70.7 cc(4.3 c.i.) 4.0 kW (5.4 bhp) 6.3 kg(13.9 lbs.)
> 
> MS 441
> ...



Nag, nag, nag,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 18, 2006)

04ultra said:


> Well its time for THALL to send me a demo to put through the big test of strenght ...My 460 was put through the test and failed...The 4960 J/Deere won .. THALL if the demo saw will hold up to my friends kid backing over it with his J/Deere I'll buy one ..Not the one from the test but a new one..Forgot it was on cement...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No, don't have any JD proof saws. New ones are heavier though,,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## manual (Aug 18, 2006)

*MS441 "The Jambalaya Saw"*



Lakeside53 said:


> Here's a pop quiz for you all: which is the earliest model saw that took combustion air from the flywheel - like late model Husky and the MS441?


 
I'm going to say Partner. Do I win A shirt?

That sure was alot of reading.
I see the Sthil Fans are still bashing people who speak out agianst there saws.
Rough crowd.

Thall, Lookey here, If you are going to throw any more saws in the dumpster. Try throwing them my way.

From What I am understanding about the 441. Sthil Looked at other companys saws and used the best ideas.
Instead of the Prince of saws. Lets name it the "Jambalaya Saw".

As far as the 026 goes I am sure sthil will catch up. You can't live on reputation for ever without improvements. You can make money on any saw as long as it runs.

Oh yeah, Does it realy matter if I spell a word wrong ?


----------



## manual (Aug 18, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> MS 440
> STIHL Magnum™ 70.7 cc(4.3 c.i.) 4.0 kW (5.4 bhp) 6.3 kg(13.9 lbs.)
> 
> MS 441
> ...



Yea I'm ready to buy a saw that weights more (not) Not intill Jonsered stops making the 2171. By that time saws will change again, Lets hope.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 18, 2006)

manual said:


> I'm going to say Partner. Do I win A shirt?
> 
> Oh yeah, Does it realy matter if I spell a word wrong ?




Nope, wrong guess!

Depends on which word! but I don't care! The only reason I can spell (or type) is because of the spell checker!


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 18, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> Depends on which word! but I don't care! The only reason I can spell (or type) is because of the spell checker!




Ever see my spelling..:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:

Even spell checker get's confused..


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 18, 2006)

spike60 said:


> Well over 200 posts, and this is really the most accurate overview of the whole strato engine situation. Yes, Red Max was first. Is it patentable technology? Thats for the lawyers to figure out.
> 
> What I don't understand is the sentiment that if a company picks up an idea from someone else, that it makes them chumps, and that they should be ashamed and hang their heads low. What the heck is the point of all of this "we had it first and they copied it" stuff? Let's face it, none of these companies can claim to have invented the 2-cycle engine.
> 
> ...




Well put!

I sure glad Stihl has viable competition or we'd all suffer...


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 18, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> MS 440
> It's a shame to see Stihl's new saws take a step backwards in performance but likely we will see more of the same as Stihl struggles to meet EPA regulations.




Struggling? I don't think so...


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 18, 2006)

04ultra said:


> Ever see my spelling..:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> Even spell checker get's confused..




You mean GETS confused!:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## manual (Aug 18, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> Nope, wrong guess!
> 
> New clue Please. Can I buy a vowel?


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 18, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> You mean GETS confused!:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:




LOL...YUP...


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 18, 2006)

manual said:


> Lakeside53 said:
> 
> 
> > Nope, wrong guess!
> ...


----------



## manual (Aug 18, 2006)

Hey Spike Theres nothing with what Sthil did and is doing.
I like jambalaya soup and just like the 441 It weighs me down.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 18, 2006)

manual said:


> Hey Spike Theres nothing with what Sthil did and is doing.
> I like jambalaya soup and just like the 441 It weighs me down.




..but just like the soup, not for long!:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## manual (Aug 18, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> manual said:
> 
> 
> > You can have an "i" for free, but now you have to name the model also! Oh, another hint - the model begins with a "B"!
> ...


----------



## manual (Aug 18, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> ..but just like the soup, not for long!:hmm3grin2orange:


 So what you are telling me that the 441 runs and runs and runs


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 18, 2006)

manual said:


> I'm going to say Partner. Do I win A shirt?
> 
> That sure was alot of reading.
> I see the Sthil Fans are still bashing people who speak out agianst there saws.
> ...



Manual I don't think anyone was bashing anyone. What we had was a few, you included, that was running your yak about something that seems to really bug ya. Neither you, nor Tree or Ben have yet to touch a 411 yet all three of you have run your yak and on and on and on. Seems its very easy to dish out something you know nothing about but on the flip side its very hard take anything in responce. You call it being bashed, I call it if you can't take it you shouldn't dish it out,,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## manual (Aug 18, 2006)

Don't worry Thall I can take it. I take it in good ol fun.
I would like to get ahold of that heinz 57 of a saw. send it my way.

Hey Thall can you give me the answer to lakes Question, But don't tell him


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 18, 2006)

THALL you have a price tag on your tongue....That's priceless..


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 18, 2006)

manual said:


> Don't worry Thall I can take it. I take it in good ol fun.
> I would like to get ahold of that heinz 57 of a saw. send it my way.



No problem Maunal, we don't sell zebra's though,lol. I know its all in good ole fun but the facts remain, try it before you condemn it, fair play is fair. Its almost like me telling you your truck doesn't run worth a hoot yet I've never seen it, don't make much sense does it, that's all I'm pointing out. Other than that its all to their own.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 18, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> Lake I didn't mean struggling with profit.
> 
> Thall spins it the way he does because it puts money in his pocket. He has a price tag on his tongue!
> 
> ...



Say what, Tree I like the no spin factor, you should watch it sometime so you know what spin is. Spin is proclaiming you know something you really don't so you twist it to make it look like you do. Kinda like your weight/hp deal. Thats spin without facts. So since you've spun it tell me Tree how does the 441 feel and run compared to the 440,hmm. Can't tell me can ya, so much for your spin. Fact is the tad extra weight is well worth the performance. Course you have to run one to know that Tree, its hard to judge off figure and numbers, need to run em.
To discount your spin I just sent a 441 out the door alittle while ago. The man looked at the 440 and the 441. One look was all it took. I got the 440 marked down and he still took the 441. So much for spin Tree. You keep on spinning and I'll keep on selling without the spin,:biggrinbounce2: :biggrinbounce2:


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 18, 2006)

manual said:


> Don't worry Thall I can take it. I take it in good ol fun.
> I would like to get ahold of that heinz 57 of a saw. send it my way.
> 
> Hey Thall can you give me the answer to lakes Question, But don't tell him



Missed that last part, sorry Manual. I could and would:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: but I have a price on my tongue, ask Tree , he'll tell ya.


----------



## manual (Aug 18, 2006)

Thall if its like telling me that my truck don't run worth a hoot without seeing it then I am right.

All I am saying is Sthil fans for years said "I DON't MIND CLEANING MY FILTER","MY STHIL RUNS JUST AWELL WITH A DIRTY AIR FILTER" or anything elese not to admit that the turbo air filter is great and makes your saw last longer. 
salt and pepper makes that Crow taste better when you chew it.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 18, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> Lake I didn't mean struggling with profit.
> 
> Thall spins it the way he does because it puts money in his pocket. He has a price tag on his tongue!
> 
> ...



Oh come on... Mountains out of mole hills. You're running 038's (which a real nice saw). Ever weighed those beauties? Weight of 0.7lb is not a huge issue... unless you're a lightweight Put a 32 inch bar on both a 440 and an 441 and see if you can tell the weight difference in your hand. And it's more hp, not less (I know what you mean't to say)

Stihl isn't struggling to make carb/EPA... and the only reason they make money is because someone thinks its a a good deal to buy their equipment. The market sets the prices.... but you know all this stuff.

As for Thall's tongue, that between him and you... ugh.. I need a shower.


----------



## bwalker (Aug 18, 2006)

Thall, just how much time do you have on this 441?
I dont know about the rest of your guys, but I am glad I have 3 372's in stock and am going to add a 660 in the near future.


----------



## manual (Aug 18, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Missed that last part, sorry Manual. I could and would:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: but I have a price on my tongue, ask Tree , he'll tell ya.


 
I will gladly pay you tuesday for the answer today.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 18, 2006)

manual said:


> So what you are telling me that the 441 runs and runs and runs


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 18, 2006)

manual said:


> Lakeside53 said:
> 
> 
> > Pioneer B something
> ...


----------



## manual (Aug 18, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> Oh come on...
> As for Thall's tongue, that between him and you... ugh.. I need a shower.


:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## manual (Aug 18, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> manual said:
> 
> 
> > Na.. But good guess. And I thoughtt I'd given you enough information to google you heart out... Oh well.
> ...


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 18, 2006)

manual said:


> All I am saying is Sthil fans for years said "I DON't MIND CLEANING MY FILTER","MY STHIL RUNS JUST AWELL WITH A DIRTY AIR FILTER" or anything elese not to admit that the turbo air filter is great and makes your saw last longer.
> salt and pepper makes that Crow taste better when you chew it.




*I think the turbo air filter is a great idea.* Who wouldn't? As for lasting longer... Most saws out-live their owners already!

It has more to go with performance than longevity. A dirty filter is not necessarily letting more dirt into the engine, and often the opposite (not a reason to have a dirty filter though!). It's definitely affecting air flow at the top end, an implicitly enriching the mixture. Stihl's testing of the Filter system in the MS441 basically says that it will extend the time between cleaning of the pre-filter by 2X for the same performance level. Most of the saws I service haven't had their filters cleaned for weeks or months, not the "days" that is suggested.


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 18, 2006)

manual said:


> Lakeside53 said:
> 
> 
> > :bang: Man...... I don't use Goggle. I hate homework.
> ...


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 18, 2006)

manual said:


> Lakeside53 said:
> 
> 
> > :bang: Man...... I don't use Goggle. I hate homework.
> ...


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 18, 2006)

bwalker said:


> Thall, just how much time do you have on this 441?
> I dont know about the rest of your guys, but I am glad I have 3 372's in stock and am going to add a 660 in the near future.



Your going to add a 660 in the future, I'll be dayumm. I got one of those in the shed with less time one it than the 441, its yet to be started. Ben I have little time on the 441 as you well know I just bought it last week. Will it survive another week, I hope so, sure hate to see it go up in smoke,lol. Fact is Ben its time you got up and went and took a look at one. If you decide you don't like it thats fine, no one is twisting your arm to buy one. However if you don't mind I like mine quite alot and all the preaching you and Tree are doing is merely making you too look more like jealous kids than saw men. I sit and grin at the both of you. I notice you brag on the 372 pretty hard and guess what, cool. You like it then great. I might like it too but I can't brag or condemn something I don't have, hint hint.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 18, 2006)

*Yaw have a hour to sling it..*

Going for a hamburger now, I'll catch up with the show later, enjoy.....


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 18, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Going for a hamburger now, I'll catch up with the show later, enjoy.....




Can you get me a #1 ..


----------



## manual (Aug 18, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> manual said:
> 
> 
> > I'll have all the details in a day or so. I'm waiting for a set of photographs. Even I was suprised...
> ...


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 18, 2006)

Who invented the turbo system on the j-red saws??? Is the word Turbo just marketing ??


----------



## manual (Aug 18, 2006)

*Tree Co*

I find it hard to compare the 440 to the 441 .
Sthil enginered a saw to meet emissions. alot had to be done.
Husky did the same before Sthil. 372 now 575 and that saw gained weight.
As you already Know.
I would have thought that Sthil would use the two pound gain on Huskys saw to there advantage. By coming out with a lighter saw.

Has Anyone ran A 441 and a 575.


----------



## manual (Aug 18, 2006)

04ultra said:


> Who invented the turbo system on the j-red saws??? Is the word Turbo just marketing ??


 Yea bro, turbo would be marketing. Turbo meaning Fan.
Partner chainsaw was the first. As far as I know. then Jonsered, Husky started using it with merger with Jonsered. AND NOW STHIL. I love It.
This is a fine day for Husky fans. To see Sthil stoop so low. RAH RAH RAH


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 18, 2006)

manual said:


> Yea bro, turbo would be marketing. Turbo meaning Fan.
> Partner chainsaw was the first. As far as I know. then Jonsered, Husky started using it with merger with Jonsered. AND NOW STHIL. I love It.
> This is a fine day for Husky fans. To see Sthil stoop so low. RAH RAH RAH



Ok was just wondering ..I see it listed as air injection on Husky and turbo J-red ..

Are you a Husky fan or J-red??

BTW dont get hurt jumping up and down .. You might fall..


----------



## manual (Aug 18, 2006)

Jonsered, I always seem to go with the underdog. Don't know why.Guess they need Fans.
I liked Rusty Wallace too.


----------



## bwalker (Aug 18, 2006)

> Your going to add a 660 in the future, I'll be dayumm. I got one of those in the shed with less time one it than the 441, its yet to be started. Ben I have little time on the 441 as you well know I just bought it last week. Will it survive another week, I hope so, sure hate to see it go up in smoke,lol. Fact is Ben its time you got up and went and took a look at one. If you decide you don't like it thats fine, no one is twisting your arm to buy one. However if you don't mind I like mine quite alot and all the preaching you and Tree are doing is merely making you too look more like jealous kids than saw men. I sit and grin at the both of you. I notice you brag on the 372 pretty hard and guess what, cool. You like it then great. I might like it too but I can't brag or condemn something I don't have, hint hint.


 I have never once condemmed the 441. In fact i said I am going to give one a try when I get home. I will say it would have to be a stellar saw to get me to part with one of my 372's.
A 660 with less time than that 441? thats criminal...sell me the 660 at once so it can be ran as Andreas intended.
FYI I have owned alot more Stihl saws than Husky's.


----------



## spike60 (Aug 18, 2006)

manual said:


> Jonsered, I always seem to go with the underdog. Don't know why.Guess they need Fans.
> I liked Rusty Wallace too.



Yeah, I suppose I'm a fan of the Jonsereds for the same reason. Plus, I like the Tilton family that distributes them here in the US. There aren't very many things in this business that you can still get from a family owned company.

Other than that, I don't have anything all that interesting to say at the moment. But, I wanted to do my part to help this thread reach 300 posts.


----------



## manual (Aug 18, 2006)

*Hey lakeside*

Sthil Model blk 57


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 18, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> That was me Ben.
> 
> I was hoping the 441 was going to be a nice saw but listening to Thall it sounds like it's a real pig.



Yes Tree I'm sure you was hoping all this time. I bet you was losing sleep over it too, sureeeeeee. Fact is you could care less. Just running your yak as usual and in the process eating crow for remarks you make. Remember that promise I made you,hmmm. Not so sure you would know a pig from a hog but I'm sure you'd try to spin it to make people think you do, haha. You are fun though I must admit.:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## manual (Aug 18, 2006)

Hey thall do you know anybody that has test driven the 441 and also the 575


----------



## manual (Aug 18, 2006)

*huskys 575*

http://www.hattonbrown.com/vserver/...=1&IssueKey=451&SectionKey=21&ArticleKey=4946


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 18, 2006)

manual said:


> Hey thall do you anybody that has test driven the 441 and also the 575



I test drove the 441, yep I bought one. It rode super smooth, got 25 mpg and since its such a pruty machine I had to fight off three blondes to keep it,haha. Fact is the saw is what I said it is, super smooth. Has alot more torque than the saw its replacing, the 44/440. The power band is good. I liked it and thats my story and I'm sticking to it. BlueRidgeMark handled mine today so you can ask him his thoughts on it as well.
I don't drive Huskies but then again I don't comment on them either because of that. I don't know much about Huskies other than a few I've worked on and got running. You wont hear me bash other brands but you will see me tangle with people that, how shall I say, like to mess with me. They know who they are and they enjoy it as much as me, sorta like you,,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## manual (Aug 18, 2006)

Well looks like we need a show down on the two.
I might have to get that 441 just to have three blondes fighting over it. LOL


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 18, 2006)

manual said:


> Well looks like we need a show down on the two.
> I might have to get that 441 just to have three blondes fighting over it. LOL




haha, I kept the other 2,hehehehe, blondes that is,


----------



## BlueRidgeMark (Aug 18, 2006)

Tom, you sure you'd know what to do with a blonde if she followed you home?  


Yep, I ran the saw a bit today. Didn't get to put it in wood, but we hope to rectify that soon. Tom needs a chunk of oak for testing, and I'm going to try to drop one off to him.

Smooth saw, folks. 

Way too heavy, of course. A real pig. In fact, it's so bad, I'm going to do Tom a favor and take it off his hands next time I stop by. He hates it so much he'll be glad to just give it to me, just to be rid of that heavy pig.  

Did I mention that it was smooth? I think I could run that thing all day and not feel any buzzing in my hands. I know I'm not a pro, and don't have anywhere near the experience most of you folks have, but I know when somethings vibrating and when it's not.


Now, Tom, that pile of junk stump grinder I rented there is another matter. An hour just to do one 10" pine stump! An hour of hard work! Those teeth are about as sharp as golf balls!


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 18, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> Well that's a good attitude. I've got two low hour 460's that are going to have to wear down a bit before a 441 even looks interesting.
> 
> Is there a 661 in the works? Just throw a few pounds on the 660 and give it .1hp more and it's will be something to rave about!





So true Tree, its all about attitude. Everything is attitude and I got one of the very best. Yeah I say so and thats that. Now stop talking about pigs and such Tree, this is a saw site, not a sewy site. 

I got a 460 too, I like it. I'm doing a big oak this Sunday for a lady, very cheap mind ya, well maybe not,hehe, and the 460 is staying home. The 441 is going to get the job. I'll report back how it does just for you Tree...


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 18, 2006)

BlueRidgeMark said:


> Tom, you sure you'd know what to do with a blonde if she followed you home?
> 
> 
> Yep, I ran the saw a bit today. Didn't get to put it in wood, but we hope to rectify that soon. Tom needs a chunk of oak for testing, and I'm going to try to drop one off to him.
> ...



hahahaha, that grinder isn't a pro one Mark. I'll make dayumm sure they know the teeth are dull and get you some money back. 

Yup your right, that 441 is yours Mark, I done decided its not heavy enuff for me, way too light. Any man that "needs" a 15lb saw to go saw wood with should work out more often and get some muscles elsewhere other than their mouth (remember what that 70yr old man said, the one that runs a 36in 660, Mark?,lolol)


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 18, 2006)

*Bingo Spike60*

I took it to 300 posts,lol.


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 18, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> I took it to 300 posts,lol.



Spike60 helped..


----------



## manual (Aug 18, 2006)

BlueRidgeMark said:


> Tom, you sure you'd know what to do with a blonde if she followed you home?
> 
> Thats why he needs two. One to talk him through it.
> 
> ...


----------



## spike60 (Aug 18, 2006)

Seems like this thread is where the party is tonight. Looks like this Husky-Jonsered-Dolmar dealer is going to have to check out this new Stihl this weekend at Woodsman Days and see how it stacks up. 

Trying to be objective here, it seems as though they have "borrowed" a few ideas from other folks, which is what everyone does, and they seem to have come up with a great saw. 

Regardless of which saw logo is on your hat, a good saw is a good saw. No point in throwing darts at other brands. Most of us waste night after night on this site because we like saws, so we all have that in common. Some guys though, have a need to sling mud at brands other than that which they own. Me, I'm more likely to put down certain models of any brand, including my own, because EVERY company lays an egg now and then. But trashing all saws of any brand is shortsited. Since this sounds like a lecture, I'll now tell myself to shut up.

An old logger that I know told me of a story of a time when guys used to argue over Homelite and McCulloch. One side of the mountains ran the red ones and the other side ran the yellow ones. There was a bar in the valley between them and on Saturday nights there were often fist fights to settle the issue. Of course, beer soaked loggers fighting in the bar on Saturday night has very little to do with the saws themselves, but it was probably good fun until you sat down to breakfast the next day.

Did we hit 300 posts yet?


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 18, 2006)

manual said:


> BlueRidgeMark said:
> 
> 
> > Tom, you sure you'd know what to do with a blonde if she followed you home?
> ...


----------



## spike60 (Aug 18, 2006)

My girlfriend is here tonight complaining about hurting her back today. I wish a blonde followed her home! Oh oh, here she comes......


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 18, 2006)

spike60 said:


> Seems like this thread is where the party is tonight. Looks like this Husky-Jonsered-Dolmar dealer is going to have to check out this new Stihl this weekend at Woodsman Days and see how it stacks up.
> 
> Trying to be objective here, it seems as though they have "borrowed" a few ideas from other folks, which is what everyone does, and they seem to have come up with a great saw.
> 
> ...



We hit 300 ole feller. Its been a fun thread. Ya know Spike what is so funny, those that like to fuss and carry on with me should merely look down at my sig and read it. That says it all about me. "Of all the saws I ever saw they all saw". Now thats hard to agru with,lolol. 

Can't wait to get that Dolmar shirt Spike, I'm looking forward to having some fun at work.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 18, 2006)

spike60 said:


> My girlfriend is here tonight complaining about hurting her back today. I wish a blonde followed her home! Oh oh, here she comes......



Yikesssssssssssssssssssss can I have your saws Spike, your not gonna need them anymore in about 10 minutes,lol


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 18, 2006)

*Sugar*

I see ya at the bottom of the page ole feller. Has this thread been a blast or what,lolololol. All in fun and non-sense. Lets throw all these saws in the river and go to the garden , a place you and me really enjoy. BTW, I heard you got a ticket too for letting a cabbage head roll out in the road and crushing a cop car. Gotta keep them boys in the garden Sugar,lol


----------



## manual (Aug 18, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> manual said:
> 
> 
> > Think hard Manual. Think on this too, wonder who has been following the "leader" for the last 35 years,IN A ROW. Eating dust for 35 years, man thats a bummer, cough cough,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:
> ...


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 18, 2006)

manual said:


> THALL10326 said:
> 
> 
> > Come on now you don,t eat dust with a turbo air cleaner.
> ...


----------



## sugarbush (Aug 18, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> I see ya at the bottom of the page ole feller. Has this thread been a blast or what,lolololol. All in fun and non-sense. Lets throw all these saws in the river and go to the garden , a place you and me really enjoy. BTW, I heard you got a ticket too for letting a cabbage head roll out in the road and crushing a cop car. Gotta keep them boys in the garden Sugar,lol


this has been a real interesting thread. I try'd last nite to watch the football game but because of this fiasco i'm not real sure who played. same damn thing tonite. you have to quit opening up these can of worm's, bring's the animal's out.


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 18, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> manual said:
> 
> 
> > lololololol, good one there, wait a minute, its not Turbo , its Air Injection, I think,lolol. Hell who cares, they all saws....
> ...


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 18, 2006)

sugarbush said:


> this has been a real interesting thread. I try'd last nite to watch the football game but because of this fiasco i'm not real sure who played. same damn thing tonite. you have to quit opening up these can of worm's, bring's the animal's out.



hahahaa Sugar, its not me opening up a can of worms ole feller, its more like the ole saying of why does everyone pick on me,lolololol, bring it on I say,lol


----------



## manual (Aug 18, 2006)

04ultra said:


> THALL10326 said:
> 
> 
> > Now wait I cant make up my mind ..What do they call it ?? What brand is it? I get it ..Turbo is air injection that they use for marketing the same thing...LOL
> ...


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 18, 2006)

manual said:


> 04ultra said:
> 
> 
> > yep same same and now all the same
> ...


----------



## sugarbush (Aug 18, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> hahahaa Sugar, its not me opening up a can of worms ole feller, its more like the ole saying of why does everyone pick on me,lolololol, bring it on I say,lol


fishhuntcutwood said he was going to stop in next week, hope he bring his wide angle camera, I'll have him take a picture of one of my pumpkin patch's. see what you think of them little fella's.umpkin2:


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 18, 2006)

sugarbush said:


> fishhuntcutwood said he was going to stop in next week, hope he bring his wide angle camera, I'll have him take a picture of one of my pumpkin patch's. see what you think of them little fella's.umpkin2:



cool, can't wait to see them.....................


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 18, 2006)

manual said:


> Sthil Model blk 57




Someone's been blabbing... or you're a real sleuth 

I think it was a BLK46, but not sure of the exact model - that's why I was waiting... 

I'll have a few pics and more info in a day or so.

So you Stihl think Husky invented it?:biggrinbounce2:


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 18, 2006)

manual said:


> Well looks like we need a show down on the two.
> I might have to get that 441 just to have three blondes fighting over it. LOL




Ultra's one of those blonds... :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 18, 2006)

manual said:


> BlueRidgeMark said:
> 
> 
> > wonder if the 441 runs smooth because of the spring mounts and the absence of rubber.
> ...


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 18, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> Ultra's one of those blonds... :hmm3grin2orange:



Brown hair with gray high lites..


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 18, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> Hahaha
> 
> Didn't get to put it in wood...........not feel any buzzing in my hands.........I know when somethings vibriating and when it's not.
> 
> ...



Tree he not only messed with the 441, running, but he also took a 361, running, and gave it a feel too. True I don't have a big log by the shop but Mark said he's gonna fix me up on that. Far as pro goes thats just a three letter word for highway robbery in the tree business. I hear so many stories about all those pro's out there, they are great for selling saws,,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## NWCS (Aug 18, 2006)

hey Lakeside, i might have to check out your shop sometime! have a website or address listed somewhere?


----------



## stihlatit (Aug 18, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Tree he not only messed with the 441, running, but he also took a 361, running, and gave it a feel too. True I don't have a big log by the shop but Mark said he's gonna fix me up on that. Far as pro goes thats just a three letter word for highway robbery in the tree business. I hear so many stories about all those pro's out there, they are great for selling saws,,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:



Tom I was just thinking that maybe you should get a log by the shop and invite Treeco down to sit on it.........................to hold it down. :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 18, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> Someone's been blabbing... or you're a real sleuth
> 
> I think it was a BLK46, but not sure of the exact model - that's why I was waiting...
> 
> ...



Lake how could you. The air injection thing and spring mounts are Manual's pride and joy, now you done and went and ruined it. Its ok Manual, you can have the Turbo or Air Injection or Sucks Some Air,whatever they call it,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: Fact is the trees don't care and most users don't either. Shame on you Lake,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## stihlatit (Aug 18, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> Tom does not need a log to test chainsaws! The air around DC must be thick enough to cut with a chainsaw.
> 
> .......I bet he plays a mean air guitar, too.



Daniel Daniel how do your posies and pansies grow.

Daniel, Daniel Quite Contrary, 
How does your garden grow? 
With silver bells and cockleshells 
And pretty maids all in a row.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 18, 2006)

stihlatit said:


> Tom I was just thinking that maybe you should get a log by the shop and invite Treeco down to sit on it.........................to hold it down. :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:



Would love to have Tree come by. More fun yaking and fussing in person, sides I could sell Tree a saw or 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 or 6,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## stihlatit (Aug 18, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> We don't grow posies or pansies so you'll have to keep shopping Arnie. We do grow over 1,000 hosta cultivars and 125 tree cultivars though.
> 
> Here is a link to one that might be up your alley.
> http://myhostas.net/db/view/Outhouse+Delight



Darn I thought I was getting a link to the pansy forest.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 18, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> Tom does not need a log to test chainsaws! The air around DC must be thick enough to cut with a chainsaw.
> 
> .......I bet he plays a mean air guitar, too.



Air is thick around DC, can't deny that. Though thick its not all hot air like around Atlanta...........


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 18, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> Hahaha
> 
> Didn't get to put it in wood...........not feel any buzzing in my hands.........I know when somethings vibriating and when it's not.
> 
> ...



Sounds like Dan is an expert in things that vibrate...:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## stihlatit (Aug 18, 2006)

04ultra said:


> Sounds like Dan is an expert in things that vibrate...:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:



If Tom gets a log for Treeco to sit on maybe we can Blue Ridge to put Tom's saw in the log and vibrate it for him.


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 18, 2006)

stihlatit said:


> If Tom gets a log forTreeco to sit on maybe we can Blue Ridge to put Tom's saw in the log and vibrate it for him.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 18, 2006)

bwalker said:


> I have never once condemmed the 441. In fact i said I am going to give one a try when I get home. I will say it would have to be a stellar saw to get me to part with one of my 372's.
> A 660 with less time than that 441? thats criminal...sell me the 660 at once so it can be ran as Andreas intended.
> FYI I have owned alot more Stihl saws than Husky's.



Compare it with a stock muffer 372, or mod the 441 muffler. 

Yes Thall, your MS660 - THAT IS CRIMINAL! You need to get back in the cooler for a few weeks. Hey, where's your "cell mate" this week?


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 18, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> Compare it with a stock muffer 372, or mod the 441 muffler.
> 
> Yes Thall, your MS660 - THAT IS CRIMINAL! You need to get back in the cooler for a few weeks. Hey, where's your "cell mate" this week?



Awww shoot I'm saving that one. Heck I got too many with slight scratches on them to use,lol. Cell mate, huh, ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh you mean Sap. I haven't seen much of Sap. Last time I saw Sap him and me were talking about that big Remmington saw he got going. Since then I haven't seen Sap at all. He's probly out on vacation or something this week. Sap will be back, Sap will always come back.


----------



## stihlatit (Aug 18, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Awww shoot I'm saving that one. Heck I got too many with slight scratches on them to use,lol. Cell mate, huh, ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh you mean Sap. I haven't seen much of Sap. Last time I saw Sap him and me were talking about that big Remmington saw he got going. Since then I haven't seen Sap at all. He's probly out on vacation or something this week. Sap will be back, Sap will always come back.



Sap is next door


----------



## ShoerFast (Aug 18, 2006)

stihlatit said:


> Sap is next door



Yes, running his "rumor - mill" again, slashing a little propaganda.


----------



## stihlatit (Aug 18, 2006)

ShoerFast said:


> Yes, running his "rumor - mill" again, slashing a little propaganda.



We could hear him through the paper thin walls Kevin.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 18, 2006)

bwalker said:


> I have never once condemmed the 441. In fact i said I am going to give one a try when I get home. I will say it would have to be a stellar saw to get me to part with one of my 372's.
> A 660 with less time than that 441? thats criminal...sell me the 660 at once so it can be ran as Andreas intended.
> FYI I have owned alot more Stihl saws than Husky's.



Ok Ben, maybe it was me you seem to be groaning about instead of the saw, thats cool. You go try one and see whatcha think. If its not stellar enough for ya then by all means leave her sit in the store. Either way won't change my opinion about it, I like it and thats that.

Whatcha mean crimmal, that 660 is living a life of luxury Ben,lol. It hasn't seen the first drop of mix yet. Hell haven't even pull the rope on it yet either. Fact is I'm saving that for my little Grandson. The model will be history by then I'm sure, he's only 1 yr old, and if I'm still kicking I can say the saw was once called the King and give it to him, brand spanking new condition, never used. I kinda like the idea........


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 18, 2006)

stihlatit said:


> Sap is next door



He is, well that sucker. Had he gotem fired up overthere, if so that's ole Sap, gotta admit he brings life into all threads. 

Arnie don't tell Ultra but BlueRidgeMark got another Stihl goodie today. I told Mark not to tell him either so lets keep it quite,:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 18, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> He is, well that sucker. Had he gotem fired up overthere, if so that's ole Sap, gotta admit he brings life into all threads.
> 
> Arnie don't tell Ultra but BlueRidgeMark got another Stihl goodie today. I told Mark not to tell him either so lets keep it quite,:hmm3grin2orange:




I wont look...:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: 

Thall you gots me another tracking # yet??


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 18, 2006)

04ultra said:


> I wont look...:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> Thall you gots me another tracking # yet??



Soon ole boy soon. I know your itching to tear that old 66 apart but I wanna get that thing shipped to you for $0.00, knows what I mean,............


----------



## manual (Aug 18, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> Someone's been blabbing... or you're a real sleuth
> 
> I think it was a BLK46, but not sure of the exact model - that's why I was waiting...
> 
> ...


 Nobody spilled the beans, Maybe it is the BKL46. I could only find the BKL57.
Husky stoled the idea from Jonsered and Jonsered got it from partner.
Now I don't know if Sthil was the first. and by the way it looks I don't think that it blows the chips in another direction.
I'm just glad to see that Sthil is using the concept again. so yes it is a victory. maybe a small one I just might do a jig in the street.


----------



## manual (Aug 18, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> manual said:
> 
> 
> > Stihl, 1993... And a few other good brands...
> ...


----------



## manual (Aug 19, 2006)

04ultra said:


> Brown hair with gray high lites..


 They make wigs. you hussy.


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 19, 2006)

manual said:


> They make wigs. you hussy.




:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## manual (Aug 19, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Lake how could you. The air injection thing and spring mounts are Manual's pride and joy, now you done and went and ruined it. Its ok Manual, you can have the Turbo or Air Injection or Sucks Some Air,whatever they call it,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: Fact is the trees don't care and most users don't either. Shame on you Lake,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:



AH yes little grass hopper. But Sthil does care.
Thats way they jumped on the Band Wagon.
Here I go again.


----------



## manual (Aug 19, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> Compare it with a stock muffer 372, or mod the 441 muffler.
> 
> Forget it the 372 beats the 440 stock.
> I say Run the 441 to the 575. (In a ceaser Voice). Let the crowd decide.


----------



## spacemule (Aug 19, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Whatcha mean crimmal, that 660 is living a life of luxury Ben,lol. It hasn't seen the first drop of mix yet. Hell haven't even pull the rope on it yet either. Fact is I'm saving that for my little Grandson. The model will be history by then I'm sure, he's only 1 yr old, and if I'm still kicking I can say the saw was once called the King and give it to him, brand spanking new condition, never used. I kinda like the idea........


Maybe we should call you "gramps." :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 19, 2006)

manual said:


> Lakeside53 said:
> 
> 
> > Compare it with a stock muffer 372, or mod the 441 muffler.
> ...


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 19, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Whatcha mean crimmal, that 660 is living a life of luxury Ben,lol. It hasn't seen the first drop of mix yet. Hell haven't even pull the rope on it yet either. Fact is I'm saving that for my little Grandson. The model will be history by then I'm sure, he's only 1 yr old, and if I'm still kicking I can say the saw was once called the King and give it to him, brand spanking new condition, never used. I kinda like the idea........




You'll hand that premo classic 18 year old MS660 to the grandson - he'll sell it for an old car and a case or two of beer!


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 19, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> You'll hand that premo classic 18 year old MS660 to the grandson - he'll sell it for an old car and a case or two of beer!



That would serve that ol-THALL right ..A couple cases of beer ...LOL


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 19, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> If Stihl's trend of less HP per pound continues the MS660's equivalent in 17 years will likely weigh 100 pounds and run as smooth as a slab of granite.



See your up early and at it TreeCo. Just think TreeCo looking at sales this year along with the last 17 years Stihl might be the only saw left to to buy in 17 years. Wouldn't that be something. You better come on up here get some new light saws while ya can. For you ole buddy I'll discount for you. You got 12 Stihl's now, you better stock up on a few now before they get heavy,


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 19, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> You'll hand that premo classic 18 year old MS660 to the grandson - he'll sell it for an old car and a case or two of beer!



Hmmmmmmmmm I never thought of that. Shoot you might be right. At 18 he'll have his mind on women and booze. Hmmmmmm, I may have to fire that 660 up after all, what a shame,lololol


----------



## bwalker (Aug 19, 2006)

> Knowing Ben (I don't), he won't have a stock muffler anyhow.


 I have 1 completley stock 372, 1 ported and one muffler modded only.

Thall, I have no beef with you. I merley pointed out that you may be a bit biased because you have a vested interest in saying posiitve things about Stihls. I would give a Husky guy the shame chit as theya ll think the 575 is so great, which it isnt. At least the 441 isnt rev limited.


----------



## manual (Aug 19, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> manual said:
> 
> 
> > There you got with the spelling again! *CAESAR*:biggrinbounce2:
> ...


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 19, 2006)

manual said:


> Lakeside53 said:
> 
> 
> > Dogonit, All that research all day.:bang: One mispelled word and it's null and void.
> ...


----------



## manual (Aug 19, 2006)

04ultra said:


> manual said:
> 
> 
> > Manual can buy the saws and we can get members from Mi. to run them..
> ...


----------



## manual (Aug 19, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> If Stihl's trend of less HP per pound continues the MS660's equivalent in 17 years will likely weigh 100 pounds and run as smooth as a slab of granite.



Won't matter anyway. The saws I got now weight more and more every year.
Think I have a broken scale. Always shows they weigh the same as last.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 19, 2006)

manual said:


> Won't matter anyway. The saws I got now weight more and more every year.




You're not supposed to stand on the scale with the saw!


----------



## spacemule (Aug 19, 2006)

Manual and Lake, your avatars are too similar. I keep confusing the two of you.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 19, 2006)

spacemule said:


> Manual and Lake, your avatars are too similar. I keep confusing the two of you.



Shhhhh..... Don't tell the mods but we are the same person. Just like Sap and Treeco:biggrinbounce2:


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 19, 2006)

bwalker said:


> I have 1 completley stock 372, 1 ported and one muffler modded only.
> 
> Thall, I have no beef with you. I merley pointed out that you may be a bit biased because you have a vested interest in saying posiitve things about Stihls. I would give a Husky guy the shame chit as theya ll think the 575 is so great, which it isnt. At least the 441 isnt rev limited.



Thats cool Ben, no hard feelings here and none on your end either so its all good. Me bias, naaaaaaaa. I don't care who uses what, makes no nevermind to me. Personal saws, I might be a tad bias toward myself, I got at last count 22 Stihls out in the shed. My bias though is merely a choice and my choice is what I work with. If I was in a Husky shop no doult all my saws would be Huskies.


----------



## bwalker (Aug 19, 2006)

Thall, can I get you to admit the MS 290-390 are POS and the 260 is a antiquated club?LOL!


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 19, 2006)

bwalker said:


> Thall, can I get you to admit the MS 290-390 are POS and the 260 is a antiquated club?LOL!



I'm not Thall, but...

The 290->390 are not POS... They are after all Stihl's best selling saws (290)! So I guess by measure of customer acceptance and price point, they work pretty damn well, and there are other brand choices out there. The 290>390 aren't pro saws... and when not used as such, give very few problems. I see less problems with these than 036/044's, but, different users.

I sure that if you got to design a saw it would weigh half as much, cost half as much and put out half as much again hp, and last twice as long:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## bwalker (Aug 19, 2006)

> The 290->390 are not POS...


I respectfuly diagree. I have one right now that I let my employees use that just puked a lowe rod bearing. The performance stunk to put it mildly.Besides,there are other consumer saws offered by more than one MFG that are better in every way.
I could give a rats azz what sells. Most of the people buying said saws are clueless as to what they are buying and are basing there decision on the reputation that was earned by Stihl pro saws.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 19, 2006)

bwalker said:


> Thall, can I get you to admit the MS 290-390 are POS and the 260 is a antiquated club?LOL!




You can easily get me to admit the 260 is of old design, thats true, saying its a POS because of that is hogwash. The 260 isn't the fastest, it isn't the smoothest but it sure does seem to run and run for years and years. Its nothing to see them come in for a minor tune up and they're 15 years old and look like they got a zillion miles on them, still running and still cutting. Take a hint Ben, most folks don't carry stop watches to go cut wood.

The 290-390 series believe it or not are the most popular sellers in the country. As I've said before there are a helluva lot more average Joe's out in the woods than there are arborist's and lumbermen. You say they are a POS because of their size weight and power output compared to a pro saw I assume. Average Joe doesn't care and will buy a 290 in a heartbeat to go saw a tree down in his backyard that the tree company wanted a grand to do. Can you blame him? Fact is Ben most could care less about performance and all the hoop la with saws. Not everyone disects chainsaws. Not everyone is out for the best there is. Some are very happy if it starts, runs and cuts wood. The 290-390 series do that as well as the pro models. No more than average Joe uses his the 290-390 series hold up quite well and average Joe is buying more saws than arborist's and lumbermen. Matter of fact there are thousands of landscape companies running nothing but 290's, its all they need and they hold up pretty good.

I'm sure you will come back and say yeah but for what they cost you can buy this and that and your right. Stihl is not going to buy the market it already owns the most of. Stihl has never gone to war over price. They don't have to. I know you feel the 372 is the best thing since 7-up and it may well be. However if Husky could not sell it or make a decent profit on it what is the point in making it at all.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 19, 2006)

bwalker said:


> I respectfuly diagree. I have one right now that I let my employees use that just puked a lowe rod bearing. The performance stunk to put it mildly.Besides,there are other consumer saws offered by more than one MFG that are better in every way.
> I could give a rats azz what sells. Most of the people buying said saws are clueless as to what they are buying and are basing there decision on the reputation that was earned by Stihl pro saws.



Ben if those cluess buyers as you put it weren't buying saws we wouldn't be here fussing over saws. For you to call lawyers, doctors and everyone else that isn't a saw buff clueless makes you obviously CLUELESS,lol. You think only saw buffs buy saws Ben, think again. If the companies had to reply only on saw buffs such as you and me they would all be out of business. Fact is the consumer market is a helluva lot bigger than the pro market. Consumers buy saws and skipp all the bull the pro's yak about, they don't care. 

Reputation does sell saws, that I admit. Oddly though you say Stihl built they're reputation only on its pro models. Fact is Stihl's reputation has yet to stop growing. All those clueless consumers are out there on week-ends loving their 290's and telling the neighbors how great their Stihl saw is. Its never ending Ben. You don't care about sales and thats fine , your not a saw company. If you were you would love all those clueless ones you mock......


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 19, 2006)

WOW opcorn: opcorn:


----------



## bwalker (Aug 19, 2006)

> You can easily get me to admit the 260 is of old design, thats true, saying its a POS because of that is hogwash. The 260 isn't the fastest, it isn't the smoothest but it sure does seem to run and run for years and years. Its nothing to see them come in for a minor tune up and they're 15 years old and look like they got a zillion miles on them, still running and still cutting. Take a hint Ben, most folks don't carry stop watches to go cut wood.


 I am begining to think you have a reading comprehension problem, Thall. i never said the 260 wasnt durable. The Chevette was durable, but who wants to drive one?


> The 290-390 series believe it or not are the most popular sellers in the country. As I've said before there are a helluva lot more average Joe's out in the woods than there are arborist's and lumbermen. You say they are a POS because of their size weight and power output compared to a pro saw I assume.


 Again read what I posted. There are other non- pro offerings form more than one company that are better saws. 


> Average Joe doesn't care and will buy a 290 in a heartbeat to go saw a tree down in his backyard that the tree company wanted a grand to do. Can you blame him? Fact is Ben most could care less about performance and all the hoop la with saws.


 Doesnt this jive with what I said? The average 290 user DOESNT KNOW WHAT MAKES A SAW A GOOD ONE.


----------



## bwalker (Aug 19, 2006)

> Ben if those cluess buyers as you put it weren't buying saws we wouldn't be here fussing over saws. For you to call lawyers, doctors and everyone else that isn't a saw buff clueless makes you obviously CLUELESS,lol. You think only saw buffs buy saws Ben, think again. If the companies had to reply only on saw buffs such as you and me they would all be out of business. Fact is the consumer market is a helluva lot bigger than the pro market. Consumers buy saws and skipp all the bull the pro's yak about, they don't care.
> 
> Reputation does sell saws, that I admit. Oddly though you say Stihl built they're reputation only on its pro models. Fact is Stihl's reputation has yet to stop growing. All those clueless consumers are out there on week-ends loving their 290's and telling the neighbors how great their Stihl saw is. Its never ending Ben. You don't care about sales and thats fine , your not a saw company. If you were you would love all those clueless ones you mock......


 At one time there wasnt such a thing as non pro saws. Thats when Stihl forged the repuatation it has.
Those same guys that love their 290's also love Husky's small saws that are rebadged ulans, thats doesnt make either worth a darn.


----------



## SWE#Kipp (Aug 19, 2006)

> Stihl is not going to buy the market it already owns the most of. Stihl has never gone to war over price. They don't have to. <

I think that is depending on where in the world you live, here in Sweden and Norway the most sensible thing would be to buy a Stihl saw cause they are the cheap one's they are 3/4 the price of Husqvarna or Jonsered, ,,,,
But I'm not sensible


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 19, 2006)

bwalker said:


> I am begining to think you have a reading comprehension problem, Thall. i never said the 260 wasnt durable. The Chevette was durable, but who wants to drive one?
> 
> Again read what I posted. There are other non- pro offerings form more than one company that are better saws.
> 
> Doesnt this jive with what I said? The average 290 user DOESNT KNOW WHAT MAKES A SAW A GOOD ONE.




Ben your starting to crack me up here. Who wants a 260, apparently a helluva lot of people do Ben, thats why its still out there plugging along beating the living hell out of your beloved 372 in sales and satisfaction too. Has to be, do the numbers Ben, 18 years in the running and still a top seller in its class, math is hard to argue with.

The 290 buyer knows more than you think. If that saw was as bad as you claim they wouldn't be outselling once again the mass produced Poulans that are in every store in town. 

Fact is Ben your in one of those agruing moods again. Need to relax ole Buddy..................


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 19, 2006)

WOWopcorn: opcorn:


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 19, 2006)

bwalker said:


> I respectfuly diagree. I have one right now that I let my employees use that just puked a lowe rod bearing. The performance stunk to put it mildly.Besides,there are other consumer saws offered by more than one MFG that are better in every way.
> I could give a rats azz what sells. Most of the people buying said saws are clueless as to what they are buying and are basing there decision on the reputation that was earned by Stihl pro saws.



Let's see now... You let one of your employees use a Consumer grade Occasional Use saw and just went bad all on its own... So that makes it a POS? Then stick with the bigger $$ pro-grade saws. 

It's not just reputation from the past; It's current reputation. Stihl has been selling these plastic bodied consumer saws with no material design changes from inception, for over 10 years. It's an incredibly robust and reliable motor... I've seen maybe two in two years (out of hundreds sold and hundreds serviced) with a motor problems, and both of those were run on straight gas. I've have also seen a couple that had low compression due to the rings wearing after semi-pro use for years. The cylinders were still great. 1 set of rings and they were good for another 800 to 1000+ hours. Treat them right, use them for what they are intended for, and they are as reliable as any Stihl saw. There are even a lot of happy customers on AS. Hey, I even know of a few pro that use them as backup saws. Most the landscape business out here runs on 025 and 290s

I wouldn't buy one for my needs, but it's just fine for many (or most) non-pro users.


----------



## bwalker (Aug 19, 2006)

> I think that is depending on where in the world you live, here in Sweden and Norway the most sensible thing would be to buy a Stihl saw cause they are the cheap one's they are 3/4 the price of Husqvarna or Jonsered, ,,,,
> But I'm not sensible


 It aslo varies by geographical area of the USA. Stihls are not as popular as Husky's where I live in MI, but the previous area in MI I lived in was owned by Stihl.


> Let's see now... You let one of your employees use a Consumer grade Occasional Use saw and just went bad all on its own... So that makes it a POS? Then stick with the bigger $$ pro-grade saws.


 I would say that even a consumer grade saw should hold up to a few season of very occasional use. The saw gets mainly used to brush trails and clean up winter damage. After the spring its only ran sporadicly. The saw probaly didnt have 100 hours on it.


> Ben your starting to crack me up here. Who wants a 260, apparently a helluva lot of people do Ben, thats why its still out there plugging along beating the living hell out of your beloved 372 in sales and satisfaction too. Has to be, do the numbers Ben, 18 years in the running and still a top seller in its class, math is hard to argue with.


 What does sales matter when the thing is outdated. Just like PT Barnum once said...... Besides you guys all ready concurred with me that the saw is a very dated design. Leave it at that.


> The 290 buyer knows more than you think. If that saw was as bad as you claim they wouldn't be outselling once again the mass produced Poulans that are in every store in town.


 Poulan doesnt have the brand recognition of Stihl. If Stihl sold Poulans that where orange alla Husky they would still sell tons of them.
Why dont you guys answer this question for me. what does the 290 have over a 346 or a 5100? Are they not all about the same price? Thats not to mention the purpose built consumer models that both Husky and Dolamr sell.
i think you will find that when comparing a 290 to models of like cost the 290 is alotta sizzle and not much steak.
You guys arguing this just proves my point on your ability to not be objective and unbiased.:rockn:


----------



## bwalker (Aug 19, 2006)

> It's not just reputation from the past; It's current reputation. Stihl has been selling these plastic bodied consumer saws with no material design changes from inception, for over 10 years. It's an incredibly robust and reliable motor... I've seen maybe two in two years (out of hundreds sold and hundreds serviced) with a motor problems, and both of those were run on straight gas. I've have also seen a couple that had low compression due to the rings wearing after semi-pro use for years. The cylinders were still great. 1 set of rings and they were good for another 800 to 1000+ hours. Treat them right, use them for what they are intended for, and they are as reliable as any Stihl saw. There are even a lot of happy customers on AS. Hey, I even know of a few pro that use them as backup saws. Most the landscape business out here runs on 025 and 290s


 Almost anything will last when its subjected to very little runt time. Heck, my buddy has a Poulan that he uses to cut wood for his deer camp yearly. It hasnt missed a beat in the 5 or so years hes owned it and he only gets the 3cghains he has for it sharpoened once a year! IMO he abuse the hell out of it.


----------



## Rspike (Aug 19, 2006)

*The REAL KING & de Prince*

380 replies - 7,441 views Lets just END this now . We already know the REAL KING od saws and De Prince of saws . The KING: Poulan Wildthing 42cc and DePrince is: Poulan Wildthing 40cc Now doesnt everyone feel silly when it was right in front of us this whole time. <img src="http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a97/Roospike/FOURM/24_3.jpg">


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 19, 2006)

Rspike said:


> 380 replies - 7,441 views Lets just END this now . We already know the REAL KING od saws and De Prince of saws . The KING: Poulan Wildthing 42cc and DePrince is: Poulan Wildthing 40cc Now doesnt everyone feel silly when it was right in front of us this whole time. <img src="http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a97/Roospike/FOURM/24_3.jpg">



hahahahha, good pic Spike. I think that pic is cool as hell and I'll tell you why. I know a man that has several Wild Things and he loves that little saw. Him and me fuss and carry on all the time and we're the best of friends. He likes his Wild Things and I got no problem with that at all. He knows I prefer Stihl and he's cool with that. 

Fussing and arguing over saws is alright to a degree but after so long a time I say the best saw is the one you own. If you like it and it serves you well then its the best. Ben you like the 372, sounds like a great saw to me from what you have said. I take your word for it and say cool. I say the some of my ole Stihls are just as good and like Forrest Gump, tats all I got to say bout that. Great pic Spike, I like it....


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 19, 2006)

Rspike said:


> 380 replies - 7,441 views Lets just END this now . We already know the REAL KING od saws and De Prince of saws . The KING: Poulan Wildthing 42cc and DePrince is: Poulan Wildthing 40cc Now doesnt everyone feel silly when it was right in front of us this whole time. <img src="http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a97/Roospike/FOURM/24_3.jpg">


----------



## bwalker (Aug 19, 2006)

> Ben you like the 372, sounds like a great saw to me from what you have said. I take your word for it and say cool. I say the some of my ole Stihls are just as good and like Forrest Gump


 I would take your word for it also, but I have owned some of the Stihls in question. In fact I really like the 440, but it dont compare to the 372 in any way. The 372 is simply better.
The 90+cc saws is a whole nother story. I'd take a 66 anyday over a 395 anyday.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 19, 2006)

bwalker said:


> I would take your word for it also, but I have owned some of the Stihls in question. In fact I really like the 440, but it dont compare to the 372 in any way. The 372 is simply better.
> The 90+cc saws is a whole nother story. I'd take a 66 anyday over a 395 anyday.



Ok Ben I have to ask since I know nothing about a 372. What makes the 372 so much better that the 440 doesn't even compare to it? Now be direct and to the point, none of it will blow that 440 away non-sense, just the facts of what makes it a better saw.


----------



## Rspike (Aug 19, 2006)

Now .........Lets see whos got the guts to make this picture there Avatar . Ha.


Rspike said:


> <img src="http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a97/Roospike/FOURM/24_3.jpg">


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 19, 2006)

*Spike I know*

I know you tried to end this thread on a lite note but Ben is not done so fair is fair, let him speak...


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 19, 2006)

Rspike said:


> Now .........Lets see whos got the guts to make this picture there Avatar . Ha.




Rspike you posted it so its all yours..


----------



## LarryTheCableGuy (Aug 19, 2006)

Too late Ultra, It's MINE now!!!

.


----------



## CaseyForrest (Aug 19, 2006)

*<---------* Hows that?


----------



## LarryTheCableGuy (Aug 19, 2006)

Nice!

<------- How dis?


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 19, 2006)

CaseyForrest said:


> *<---------* Hows that?



haha, Go Cassey. You da man. I was gonna grab it but you beat me to it. I'm gonna get me a 372 avatar just to prove to Ben I'm ok with Huskies.


----------



## Rspike (Aug 19, 2006)

Your guys are nuts . LarryTheCableGuy For some odd erasion you came to mind when i asked ...............Carry on fellas


----------



## LarryTheCableGuy (Aug 19, 2006)

Rspike said:


> Your guys are nuts . LarryTheCableGuy For some odd erasion you came to mind when i asked ...............Carry on fellas


That's funny! I didn't hesitate for a second. Gumby needed a rest.

.


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 19, 2006)

Those guys sure are nuts...


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 19, 2006)

LarryTheCableGuy said:


> That's funny! I didn't hesitate for a second. Gumby needed a rest.
> 
> .



That crown looks good, hail to the new King. Larry I'm gonna steal that crown first time I catch ya snoozing,lol.....


----------



## CaseyForrest (Aug 19, 2006)

LarryTheCableGuy said:


> Nice!
> 
> <------- How dis?



Yours is bigger than mine!!!


----------



## bwalker (Aug 19, 2006)

> Ok Ben I have to ask since I know nothing about a 372. What makes the 372 so much better that the 440 doesn't even compare to it? Now be direct and to the point, none of it will blow that 440 away non-sense, just the facts of what makes it a better saw.


 Its faster,has a wider powercurve/more stump power, better filtration, better antivibe, better on fuel, parts cost less and overall cost is less. 
And I like the 440 and have alot of trigger time behind one.
Its not about a Stihl vs. Husky thing for me, its about whats the best performing model. In certain sizes its Stihl in others its Husky. Dolmar even makes a decent saw or two.


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 19, 2006)

bwalker said:


> Its faster, has better filtration, better antivibe, better on fuel, and cost less.
> And I like the 440 and have alot of trigger time behind one.
> Its not about a Stihl vs. Husky thing for me, its about whats the best performing model. In certain sizes its Stihl in others its Husky. Dolmar even makes a decent saw or two.




On my 3120 its about how fast you can drop that big box of rocks on the log..Gets heavy after a day in the woods..


----------



## bwalker (Aug 19, 2006)

Never ran a 3120, but I wouldnt want to swing a 066 around all day either.
The 660's forte in my quiver would be to use it as a landing saw bucking logs.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 19, 2006)

bwalker said:


> Its faster, has better filtration, better antivibe, better on fuel, and cost less.
> And I like the 440 and have alot of trigger time behind one.
> Its not about a Stihl vs. Husky thing for me, its about whats the best performing model. In certain sizes its Stihl in others its Husky. Dolmar even makes a decent saw or two.



Ok Ben I see your points there. Good points as well. Now let me ask you this and be honest with me. Is the 372 so much better that the 440 isn't worth looking at? Will the 372 cut two blocks to the 440's every one? Will the filter on the 440 need cleaning 5 times more than the 372? Will the vibe system on the 440 stop the user from using it all day? Will the fuel cost be that much worse the user will actually notice? And finally and foremost will the 372 outlast a 440 in the woods day in day out and if so by how long? See I'm accepting your points Ben but its the degree of differance you need to describe alittle better. Fire away...


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 19, 2006)

bwalker said:


> Never ran a 3120, but I wouldnt want to swing a 066 around all day either.
> The 660's forte in my quiver would be to use it as a landing saw bucking logs.



The 660's arnt bad.. Sure lighter then my 084 or both the 3120's

660 is a nice saw..


----------



## Freakingstang (Aug 19, 2006)

Man, This is getting rediculous. Ben give it a rest! 

What does a 290 have over a 346xp or 5100? LOL. What does a 350 have over a 346xp or 5100. The 350 is one of husky's most popular models. Do a search, look it up, write it down. You might need that information some day. like before most of the post with you running your trap. Why are you constantly putting down good saws, and comparing NON similar saws. You are starting to sound like an ant fooker. BTW, I love my 7900, got some hours on it, and the oiler works A OK. I'm surprised you even acknowledge the 5100 being a good saw. It is only a matter of time until you hear of a probelm and bad mouth that one. There are too many out there without any problems, so before you have a problem, if you own one, sell it. If you don't own one, don't buy one. You'll do Dolmar a favor. 

On the 440 to 372 comparison. Tom, I will send you my 372 if you'd like to try it out. I will be gone a month and a half and won't have a use for it. You just have to promise to send it back. I loved my 044, It was lighter and had a differant powerband that the 372. In fact, I'm going to buy another one, hopefully new before they are totally discountinued. The 372xp IMO is Husky's king of saws. It is a high reving, higher powerband saw than the 044/440. It is often compared to the 046/460 for the power similarities, but It does not have the low end grunt like the 044/440/046/460 has. They both have their positives, and not too many negatives. I will say that comparing a stock saw to a woods modded saw is like eating cheerios and comparing that to steak. It is a differant world and shouldn't even be talked about. Nothing good will come of it, no matter who speaks of it. 

I'm not going to say anything bad about the 441. I got to fire one up at the local dealer. I did not put it in wood, but it is smoother than any 044/046/066 I have ran. It does have a little more wieght to it, but wasn't that much more noticable.

-Steve


----------



## Rspike (Aug 19, 2006)

CaseyForrest said:


> *<---------* Hows that?


That was one heck of a change over for you bro .


----------



## bwalker (Aug 19, 2006)

QUOTE]Is the 372 so much better that the 440 isn't worth looking at? Will the 372 cut two blocks to the 440's every one? Will the filter on the 440 need cleaning 5 times more than the 372? Will the vibe system on the 440 stop the user from using it all day? Will the fuel cost be that much worse the user will actually notice? And finally and foremost will the 372 outlast a 440 in the woods day in day out and if so by how long? [/QUOTE]
When one considers all the factors the 372 has in its favor, no the 440 doesnt merit consideration. And liek I said before I liek the 440.


> What does a 290 have over a 346xp or 5100?


 They all cost about the same.


> The 350 is one of husky's most popular models. Do a search, look it up, write it down. You might need that information some day. like before most of the post with you running your trap. Why are you constantly putting down good saws, and comparing NON similar saws. You are starting to sound like an ant fooker. BTW, I love my 7900, got some hours on it, and the oiler works A OK. I'm surprised you even acknowledge the 5100 being a good saw. It is only a matter of time until you hear of a probelm and bad mouth that one. There are too many out there without any problems, so before you have a problem, if you own one, sell it. If you don't own one, don't buy one. You'll do Dolmar a


 Get a life. Dont you have some porting or chain secrets to beg for?


> The 372xp IMO is Husky's king of saws. It is a high reving, higher powerband saw than the 044/440. It is often compared to the 046/460 for the power similarities, but It does not have the low end grunt like the 044/440/046/460 has. They both have their positives, and not too many negatives. I will say that comparing a stock saw to a woods modded saw is like eating cheerios and comparing that to steak. It is a differant world and shouldn't even be talked about. Nothing good will come of it, no matter who speaks of it.


 The 440 having a wider power curve is laughable. Especially if you know what the port time figures and crank case compression ratio is stock on the two saws. The 372 has a wider power curve and more torque than 440...hands down. I think this comment is made because the 372 sounds likes its reving higher.
No one compared a stock saw to a woods saw either.


----------



## CaseyForrest (Aug 19, 2006)

Rspike said:


> That was one heck of a change over for you bro .



ROFL!!! To bad I cant have both in there, then Id be a hypocrite!!!


----------



## CaseyForrest (Aug 19, 2006)

bwalker said:


> QUOTE]Is the 372 so much better that the 440 isn't worth looking at? Will the 372 cut two blocks to the 440's every one? Will the filter on the 440 need cleaning 5 times more than the 372? Will the vibe system on the 440 stop the user from using it all day? Will the fuel cost be that much worse the user will actually notice? And finally and foremost will the 372 outlast a 440 in the woods day in day out and if so by how long?


 When one considers all the factors the 372 has in its favor, no the 440 doesnt merit consideration. And liek I said before I liek the 440.

They all cost about the same.

Get a life. Dont you have some porting or chain secrets to beg for?

The 440 having a wider power curve is laughable. Especially if you know what the port time figures and crank case compression ratio is stock on the two saws. The 372 has a wider power curve and more torque than 440...hands down. I think this comment is made because the 372 sounds likes its reving higher.
No one compared a stock saw to a woods saw either.[/QUOTE]

Im not going to get in on this other than to say you just repeated everything Steve said in your last paragraph.


----------



## bwalker (Aug 19, 2006)

> I love my 7900, got some hours on it, and the oiler works A OK. I'm surprised you even acknowledge the 5100 being a good saw.


 I am glad yours is working out. Mine worked well for about 2 months of daily use. How much time you got on yours?
The 7900 isnt a bad saw, but I would consider another due to the sour taste on my mouth form the last one, the lack of a real parts network and the fact that the local guy dropped them. A saw is only as good as the dealer that can get your parts ASAP.
As for the 5100. By all acounts its a good saw. never seen one and likely never will now that the local dealer dropped Dolmar. I dont think there is a Dolmar dealer that stocks saws in the entire UP of MI now. Could be mistaken on that, but of I am its at least 60 miels form where I live.


----------



## bwalker (Aug 19, 2006)

> Im not going to get in on this other than to say you just repeated everything Steve said in your last paragraph.


 I certainly did not. Steve commented that the 372 hide a higher power band, IE that the saw has less torque, but revs higher. It doesnt.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 19, 2006)

bwalker said:


> I certainly did not. Steve commented that the 372 hide a higher power band, IE that the saw has less torque, but revs higher. It doesnt.



Ben so far so good. Do both saws weigh the same?


----------



## Freakingstang (Aug 19, 2006)

bwalker said:


> Get a life. Dont you have some porting or chain secrets to beg for?



first off, you got owned by the quotes!  

Sure, what kind of oil do you recommend while I am porting to keep the chip flow at maximum evacuation?  

What kind of oil do you reccomend for me to use while square filing? The MX2T doesn't work that well, it holds too many shavings.

To beg for? LOL. Who needs the life? I have learned much of my own and do not need to beg for info. Maybe if you could pull you head out of your own azz you could see that.



bwalker said:


> The 440 having a wider power curve is laughable. Especially if you know what the port time figures and crank case compression ratio is stock on the two saws. The 372 has a wider power curve and more torque than 440...hands down. I think this comment is made because the 372 sounds likes its reving higher.
> No one compared a stock saw to a woods saw either.



What is laughable is that you know what you think you know. I'd bet money that you have never even put a degree wheel on a saw, as you have no knowledge or desire to make you own saws run better. You have said this many a time.

If you did a put a degree wheel on both of them, you would find some interesting information. You would also find the port configuration a tad on the differant side.... Two differant setups for differant powerbands

I never said the 440 had a wider powerband, but now that you think I did, I will go ahead and agree with what you thought I said. IT DOES have a wider powerband. I originally said it has a LOWER POWERBAND. Try to stall a 440 and a 372 in the cut, tell me which one is easier. I try not to make my work in the wood a taxing one, and let the chain do the cutting, but most folks don't know when a chain needs touchin up, they just push harder.


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 19, 2006)

Husqvarna 372X
Power & Weight Specs
Engine Size (Displacement)
4.3 cubic inch or 71 cc


Engine Power measured by Husqvarna
5.4 bhp


14.75 lbs 
________________________________________________________________
Stihl MS440 

Power & Weight Specs

Engine Size (Displacement)
4.3 cubic inch or 70.7 cc

Engine Power measured by Stihl

5.46 bhp 


14.5 lbs


----------



## Freakingstang (Aug 19, 2006)

What's a matter Ben, gotta call someone for info to rebuttle?


----------



## Just Mow (Aug 19, 2006)

lets end this, the 441 is better than both


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 19, 2006)

Just Mow said:


> lets end this, the 441 is better than both



Yup and I even have the 441 street boss hat to prove it...LOL


----------



## bwalker (Aug 19, 2006)

> first off, you got owned by the quotes!
> 
> Sure, what kind of oil do you recommend while I am porting to keep the chip flow at maximum evacuation?
> 
> ...


 I got owned by no one.


> Sure, what kind of oil do you recommend while I am porting to keep the chip flow at maximum evacuation?
> 
> What kind of oil do you reccomend for me to use while square filing? The MX2T doesn't work that well, it holds too many shavings.
> 
> To beg for? LOL. Who needs the life? I have learned much of my own and do not need to beg for info. Maybe if you could pull you head out of your own azz you could see that.


 Maybe castor oil for some one as bound up as you. 


> I'd bet money that you have never even put a degree wheel on a saw, as you have no knowledge or desire to make you own saws run better. You have said this many a time.


 Pull out your wallet, bud. I have always maintained that I would rather pay soem one to do my stuff because its cheap to do so. I would have to buy more tooling and such than its worth to do a couple saws. i certainly do have the knowledge and the background to do so. Of course if I did it ti would be some back yard, half azzed indeavor.
I most certainly do have a desire to have my saws run better. All save one have been muffler modded by yours truly and I have had a ported so or two.


> If you did a put a degree wheel on both of them, you would find some interesting information. You would also find the port configuration a tad on the differant side.... Two differant setups for differant powerbands


 Didnt I already say that?



> I never said the 440 had a wider powerband, but now that you think I did, I will go ahead and agree with what you thought I said. IT DOES have a wider powerband.



You said the following, which infers that the 440 has a wider torque curve, more stump power,etc. It does not. If you knew anyhting about crank case compression ratios and port timing figures you would know this.


> It is a high reving, higher powerband saw than the 044/440. It is often compared to the 046/460 for the power similarities, but It does not have the low end grunt like the 044/440/046/460 has.


----------



## Freakingstang (Aug 19, 2006)

where in that quote of mine does it say that it is a wider powerband? for someone as technical as you, you'd think it would be plain as day


----------



## Rspike (Aug 19, 2006)

04ultra said:


> Husqvarna 372X
> Power & Weight Specs
> Engine Size (Displacement)
> 4.3 cubic inch or 71 cc
> ...


HEY you "Photo Shop Bandit" ! I thought i was going NUTS . It took me a second to figure out what i was NOT replying to .


----------



## bwalker (Aug 19, 2006)

> What's a matter Ben, gotta call someone for info to rebuttle?


 Nah, Im just workign and had to go outside for a bit.
AND it is not me who asks others for info ....Id rather get off my azz and learn something for myself.
It sort of like if I wanted to paint a picture I wouldnt call up Picaso or ask him on a internet forum how to do so. A. the results would match the effort involved in learning how to paint in this manner and B. I wouldnt have any pride in doing something step by step that some else(who may or may not know ????e) spoon fed me to do.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 19, 2006)

04ultra said:


> Husqvarna 372X
> Power & Weight Specs
> Engine Size (Displacement)
> 4.3 cubic inch or 71 cc
> ...



So the 372 is a few ounces heavier, well I'll be kiss my behind, Ben you left that part out, on purpose of course but I knew it anyway,lolol. Fact is the 372 weight wise should be sided up with the 460 instead of the 440 based on weight. Based on weight alone, which is the deciding factor in all saws, TreeCo agree's with me on this, the 372 and the 460 are more of a match. Sounds like you just have to add alittle weight to get a better saw, hence the 441 verses the 440 verses the 372. Now I have no clue how much faster a 372 cuts than a 440 but it better cut alot faster if its gonna mess with the 441. I have no clue about the power band of the 372 either but the power band of the 441 verses the 440 is no contest. Smooth wise I already know the 372 is no match with the 441. I had a 372 in the shop a few weeks and its a nice saw. I ran it, sounded good but smooth wise, no match with the 441 at all. Its my understanding the 372 is indeed a great saw and I think it is too. I looked it over and handled it and felt fine to me. Would I own one , sure, why not. To say its so great that the 440 isn't worth consideration is non-sense. It seems to me the 372 is considered one of Huskies very best and I can see why. Nice saw indeed. The man that brought it in thought it was nice too and I told him as well hey nice saw. See Ben what I'm trying to tell you is I don't worry much about brands at all. Nit picking saws apart is ok for jibber jabber but in the real world it doesn't amount to a hill of beans. People are going to buy what they want and picking saws apart isn't going to change their mind. Its like I've always said, its all to their own. You like the 372 Ben, well guess what, I do too. I like the 441 better and if you ask Stang he will tell you why, he knows. Stang be gentle,,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## bwalker (Aug 19, 2006)

> I originally said it has a LOWER POWERBAND


 When you said this:


> The 372xp IMO is Husky's king of saws. *It is a high reving, higher powerband saw than the 044/440.* It is often compared to the 046/460 for the power similarities, *but It does not have the low end grunt like the 044/440/046/460 has*.


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 19, 2006)

Rspike said:


> HEY you "Photo Shop Bandit" ! I thought i was going NUTS . It took me a second to figure out what i was NOT replying to .



Spike looked like you posted alot..LOL


----------



## bwalker (Aug 19, 2006)

> So the 372 is a few ounces heavier, well I'll be kiss my behind, Ben you left that part out, on purpose of course but I knew it anyway,lolol. Fact is the 372 weight wise should be sided up with the 460


 In actual weight its(372) is almost 3/4 a pound heavier to be exact. I can notice this when runnign both back to back.


> Smooth wise I already know the 372 is no match with the 441. I h


 And you made this judgment by running a used saw in the back of your shop. Husky has had spring antivibe for years.....


----------



## bwalker (Aug 19, 2006)

Se you all Sunday. Traveling home tommorow.:rockn:


----------



## manual (Aug 19, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> Shhhhh..... Don't tell the mods but we are the same person. Just like Sap and Treeco:biggrinbounce2:


 What. Am I talking to myself again.


----------



## Freakingstang (Aug 19, 2006)

bwalker said:


> Nah, Im just workign and had to go outside for a bit.
> AND it is not me who asks others for info



Are you implying something here? Quit beating around the bush. Call you buddy ED, KD, DN, etc etc. I have never called any of them. I don't have enough time in the day to get my own stuff done, let alone call and bother someone else.

I sent one someone a pm asking if they had solid #'s for a 5100 to see if they had figured them out...Guess not. The answer I got implied they hadn't figured them out. LOL. I don't post all of my saws that I build on here. Don't want everyone to know what is hiding in the aresonal! 

Are you going to the GTG in MI? If so, bring your PP346. I have a challenge for you. I highly doubt you would show your face anyways the way you act on here sometimes. If you do go, I propose a friendly 346 grudge race against an actual builders 346 vs a hack 346. Fair enough?


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 19, 2006)

manual said:


> What. Am I talking to myself again.



Manual = lakeside53

lakeside53 = Manual


----------



## CaseyForrest (Aug 19, 2006)

Freakingstang said:


> Are you implying something here? Quit beating around the bush. Call you buddy ED, KD, DN, etc etc. I have never called any of them. I don't have enough time in the day to get my own stuff done, let alone call and bother someone else.
> 
> I sent one someone a pm asking if they had solid #'s for a 5100 to see if they had figured them out...Guess not. The answer I got implied they hadn't figured them out. LOL. I don't post all of my saws that I build on here. Don't want everyone to know what is hiding in the aresonal!
> 
> Are you going to the GTG in MI? If so, bring your PP346. I have a challenge for you. I highly doubt you would show your face anyways the way you act on here sometimes. If you do go, I propose a friendly 346 grudge race against an actual builders 346 vs a hack 346. Fair enough?



Ill hold the money.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 19, 2006)

bwalker said:


> In actual weight its(372) is almost 3/4 a pound heavier to be exact. I can notice this when runnign both back to back.
> 
> And you made this judgment by running a used saw in the back of your shop. Husky has had spring antivibe for years.....



Well how come you didn't tell me the most imoportant factor, the weight. The other day man weight was such a big issue, hmmm. Fact is the 372 is a nice saw Ben, I agree 100% with you. Fact No. 2 is the 441 is smoother, I know, you don't, admit it and foget it. Fact 3 is this. You got way too much time on your hands. Its ok to fuss about saws but dayummm Ben enough is enough. You will never change my mind and I'm not trying to change yours. I like the 372 alot. I would add one to the sable but there's a problem with the price of it Ben. Tell him Stang, Ben is half alseep here..


----------



## Freakingstang (Aug 19, 2006)

CaseyForrest said:


> Ill hold the money.




No money. Just a friendly race that is all. I'd hate to lose money to an actual built saw lol.

Although, it would suck to be on the other side and have a saw that I paid to have modded get beat some some back yard hack saw. 

Ben, make the challenge, make the term. I don't care.


----------



## Freakingstang (Aug 19, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Well how come you didn't tell me the most imoportant factor, the weight. The other day man weight was such a big issue, hmmm. Fact is the 372 is a nice saw Ben, I agree 100% with you. Fact No. 2 is the 441 is smoother, I know, you don't, admit it and foget it. Fact 3 is this. You got way too much time on your hands. Its ok to fuss about saws but dayummm Ben enough is enough. You will never change my mind and I'm not trying to change yours. I like the 372 alot. I would add one to the sable but there's a problem with the price of it Ben. Tell him Stang, Ben is half alseep here..




Tom I have yet to see you bad mouth a saw of any brand. Why is that?

I'll tell you what i'll do...

Since you can get the orange and grey cheaper than the all orange brands, why don't I trade you a nice used 372 for a brand new 440. i'll even through in the difference?


----------



## bwalker (Aug 19, 2006)

> Are you implying something here? Quit beating around the bush. Call you buddy ED, KD, DN, etc etc?


 I have talked to ken a toal of 4 times. 3 times me calling him and 1 time him calling me. never did we dicuss port timing or anything of the like.
I have talked to Dave twice. Once over beer at a local watering hole while he was doing a recruting trip for Dolmar(FYI the delaer he recruited dropped them after 1 year) and once over the phone when I was having oiler trouble with my 7900. never Where port timing figures discussed.
I have tlkaed to ED maybe 8 times. All in regards to saws I was having built. no talk of port timing figures.


> . I have never called any of them. I don't have enough time in the day to get my own stuff done, let alone call and bother someone else.


 So whats the differance between calling and asking over the internet. At least when you call you have the balls to talk to them man to man.....


> Are you going to the GTG in MI? If so, bring your PP346. I have a challenge for you. I highly doubt you would show your face anyways the way you act on here sometimes. If you do go, I propose a friendly 346 grudge race against an actual builders 346 vs a hack 346. Fair enough


 I have never been to a GTG and didnt knwo there was one in MI. I amy be able to make it if I am not still in Canada or doing something more worthwhile. 
A PP346 is a hack 346! Sorry, couldnt resist. At any rate I am not the owner of a PP 346 and never will be.
I do have a *woods port *346(that I havent ran yet) and *round filed woods chain.*
I be honest driving multiple hours to prove mines bigger than yours doesnt really do much for me. I was over than in HS.
If your eally care you are more than welcome to come up to my place. I have a fresh load of large logs being delivered in September.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 19, 2006)

Freakingstang said:


> Tom I have yet to see you bad mouth a saw of any brand. Why is that?
> 
> I'll tell you what i'll do...
> 
> Since you can get the orange and grey cheaper than the all orange brands, why don't I trade you a nice used 372 for a brand new 440. i'll even through in the difference?



Thanks Stang, I hope that makes Ben understand alittle better now. When you can get one brand at cost verses other brands that are full retail which one are ya gonna buy, especailly when they are so close anyway.

True I don't knock other brands. People come in the door with many different brands and I treat them all the same, I try to help them best as I can.

372 trade, would be nice Stang but we don't really fool with many trade in's at all, including Stihl as well. Let me see what ole Hall can swipe a 440 for and I'll let ya know..................


----------



## bwalker (Aug 19, 2006)

> The other day man weight was such a big issue, hmmm. Fact is the 372 is a nice saw Ben, I agree 100% with you. Fact No. 2 is the 441 is smoother, I know, you don't, admit it and foget it. Fact 3 is this.


 Twas Treeco, not I that brang up the weight issue.
Have you cut with a new 372 for any period of time?


----------



## bwalker (Aug 19, 2006)

BTW thall i think you will find that when the 441 is weighed by someone other than stihl it will weigh more than a 372.
The 14.75 figure for the 372 is a ctual weight posted by madsens. Madsens also weighed the 440 and it came out at 14.5. A scant 1/4 lb when set up with a full wrap and large dogs.
Wanna bet that when Madsens weighs the 441 its going to be heavier than advertised and heavier than the 372?


----------



## spacemule (Aug 19, 2006)

bwalker said:


> if I am not still in Canada or *doping* something more worthwhile.


Ha ha! Freudian slip? How in a two bit hooker's dress did this turn into a race between 346's anyway? I thought we were talking design philosophy of new saws and the EPA? . . .


----------



## bwalker (Aug 19, 2006)

> Thanks Stang, I hope that makes Ben understand alittle better now. When you can get one brand at cost verses other brands that are full retail which one are ya gonna buy, especailly when they are so close anyway.


 I have never seen a Stihl sell for less money than a Husky of like model. However thats only in NW Ontario, Central MI and the UP of MI where I have priced them.
Huskys can always be mail ordered and Stihls cant. Should you choose to got hat rout you can always save money over the net.
What are ytou getting OTD for a 440, Thall?


----------



## bwalker (Aug 19, 2006)

> Ha ha! Freudian slip?


 I never touch the stuff. Called fat fingers and typing speed above the no load rpm limit..:greenchainsaw: 


> How in a two bit hooker's dress did this turn into a race between 346's anyway? I thought we were talking design philosophy of new saws and the EPA? . . .


 Speaking of Freud and 346 races. I think it must be a phallic symbol or penus envy thing...Fast saw to compensate for a small wang maybe.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 19, 2006)

bwalker said:


> Twas Treeco, not I that brang up the weight issue.
> Have you cut with a new 372 for any period of time?




No Ben I haven't cut with a 372 anymore than you have cut with a 441, so I think we can both say we dont know which is the faster saw. I will say I don't care and thats a fact. I can say too I likem both, thats a fact. Will I buy a 372 at retail, no, why would I when I can take home a Stihl as equal or better for alot less, alotttttttttttttttttttt less.

Yes Tree made a issue about weight and all but you sided pretty good on the issue as well. Makes no nevermind to me Ben. I can toot 10-15-20lbs in the woods with ease. Tomorrow I'm going to use my new 441 and my ole favorite, my 051. The 051 weighs around 25-35lbs with the long bar and all. Its so damn heavy I rate it a boat anchor. Do I care, nope. I can handle it. Weight means squat to me, course I am all muscle,all 175lbs,lololol..

Enuff said Ben, time we cut some wood and shut the traps. Lets give it a rest. We'll find another subject to fuss about I'm sure but this one has about run its course.


----------



## Freakingstang (Aug 19, 2006)

bwalker said:


> Speaking of Freud and 346 races. I think it must be a phallic symbol or penus envy thing...Fast saw to compensate for a small wang maybe.



Yup that is it. Is that what you wanted to hear? lol.

The fact that you are against hack builders was the reason it was brought up. Wanna use the modded 372 instead? We can, but that just wouldn't be fair to you or your builder.

Small penis envy. They way you run your mouth, you must not even have a penis.


----------



## manual (Aug 19, 2006)

*What the ?*

Why in the world is everybody comparing the 372 to the 441? 
Get into the now will ya. 
Try the 575 compared to the 441
Like it or not the 372 is and should be compared to the 440. Hello look at the CCs Rocket scientist.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 19, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> Likewise the 441 should be compared to the 460 based on weight. The 441 is only being compared to the 440 because the 460 likely kicks the 441's ass!



You might be right Tree. Ya did post a cuss word there though Tree, better get that outter here, I'm offended with that kind of talk, lolol. 

Tree just for you ole buddy, ole pal of mine I'll take the 046 along too and we'll see if it does whop the new 441, it just might, hell I don't know and could care even less. For you though I'll givem run and fill ya in, only for you Tree would I do that.


----------



## manual (Aug 19, 2006)

Freakingstang said:


> Yup that is it. Is that what you wanted to hear? lol.
> 
> The fact that you are against hack builders was the reason it was brought up. Wanna use the modded 372 instead? We can, but that just wouldn't be fair to you or your builder.
> 
> Small penis envy. They way you run your mouth, you must not even have a penis.


 
Man this is so Adult like.


----------



## spacemule (Aug 19, 2006)

Freakingstang said:


> They way you run your mouth, you must not even have a penis.


How did you, uhh,... ahem, you were talking to walker, weren't you.


----------



## spacemule (Aug 19, 2006)

For there to be any constructive comparisons of saws, we have to have a detailed list of features with relative importances. As far as I can tell, I'm hearing arguments comparing different things:


weight
power
power to weight ratio
availibility/service network
longevity
price
vibration level
sound
fuel economy
ease of service
penis size
 
On one side, I'm hearing "This saw is smooth and sounds great, so it's a great saw!" 
Then, "Don't invest too much in dealer's claims, wait until others have extensive feedback. I'll wager the design is not as good as previous ones. Mine's faster, bigger, cheaper, and sexier!" 

Now, seems we aren't even comparing the same features here. Who's going to go and place relative weights on my list?


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 19, 2006)

manual said:


> Why in the world is everybody comparing the 372 to the 441?
> Get into the now will ya.
> Try the 575 compared to the 441
> Like it or not the 372 is and should be compared to the 440. Hello look at the CCs Rocket scientist.




We know that Manual. This whole thread is so critical to ounces though, around 8 near as I tell,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 19, 2006)

spacemule said:


> For there to be any constructive comparisons of saws, we have to have a detailed list of features with relative importances. As far as I can tell, I'm hearing arguments comparing different things:
> 
> 
> weight
> ...



Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Space , its not about saws at all, its more about NAG NAG NAG:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## spacemule (Aug 19, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Space , its not about saws at all, its more about NAG NAG NAG:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


Ha ha. I don't think Ben is nagging, Thall. He's just extremely detail and theory oriented.


----------



## manual (Aug 19, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> We know that Manual. This whole thread is so critical to ounces though, around 8 near as I tell,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:



Oh I can see how that will make a diff. :monkey:


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 19, 2006)

spacemule said:


> Ha ha. I don't think Ben is nagging, Thall. He's just extremely detail and theory oriented.



Its not Ben I'm talking about,lol, isn't that right Tree?


----------



## manual (Aug 19, 2006)

spacemule said:


> Ha ha. I don't think Ben is nagging, Thall. He's just extremely detail and theory oriented.



and that would be bad thing?


----------



## spacemule (Aug 19, 2006)

manual said:


> and that would be bad thing?


No, I don't think so. Some see it as nitpicking or being condescending though. I'll be quiet now.


----------



## manual (Aug 19, 2006)

How you doing Space and thall?
You know I was out cutting firewood with my "Hybred Husky" you know the one all dress up in red.
I also had my week end warrior 029 super. that one I have had sence they first came out.
Had alot of fun out in the woods.
It did not matter what saw I picked up and used. Because there are the best saws in the world. " to Me". and thats all that counts.


----------



## manual (Aug 20, 2006)

spacemule said:


> No, I don't think so. Some see it as nitpicking or being condescending though. I'll be quiet now.



It's cool. there is always something we can learn.
Like I wonder how many people looked at that rubber line on the dolmar
after ben said something about.


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 20, 2006)

manual said:


> How you doing Space and thall?
> You know I was out cutting firewood with my "Hybred Husky" you know the one all dress up in red.
> I also had my week end warrior 029 super. that one I have had sence they first came out.
> Had alot of fun out in the woods.
> It did not matter what saw I picked up and used. Because there are the best saws in the world. " to Me". and thats all that counts.




Manual you make me want to


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 20, 2006)

manual said:


> How you doing Space and thall?
> You know I was out cutting firewood with my "Hybred Husky" you know the one all dress up in red.
> I also had my week end warrior 029 super. that one I have had sence they first came out.
> Had alot of fun out in the woods.
> It did not matter what saw I picked up and used. Because there are the best saws in the world. " to Me". and thats all that counts.



Doing good here Manual. I'm glad to see you know most of this thread is more non-sense than anything else. Kinda fun but nothing of any real value to anyone. I've always said the best saw is the one you own. I want you to know though I got a old 029 out in the shed. Runs perfect and I can honestly say ITS A BETTER 029 THAN YOURS,lololololol. Just messing with you. The J'red may be a Hybred in your opinion but I think the colors they use are a mights pretty, no kidding, they look nice to me.


----------



## manual (Aug 20, 2006)

04ultra said:


> Manual you make me want to


 Its ok let it out. :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: Tells how you realy feel.


----------



## manual (Aug 20, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Doing good here Manual. I'm glad to see you know most of this thread is more non-sense than anything else. Kinda fun but nothing of any real value to anyone. I've always said the best saw is the one you own. I want you to know though I got a old 029 out in the shed. Runs perfect and I can honestly say ITS A BETTER 029 THAN YOURS,lololololol. Just messing with you. The J'red may be a Hybred in your opinion but I think the colors they use are a mights pretty, no kidding, they look nice to me.


 

Its all fun . youve said and I have said it. Who gives a rats arse.
In 100 years nobody will even care.
But I did get you on the springs and filter.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 20, 2006)

manual said:


> Its all fun . youve said and I have said it. Who gives a rats arse.
> In 100 years nobody will even care.
> But I did get you on the springs and filter.



Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwww no you didn't. I went home and told moma about it and she said I still won, so ha,lolololololol. She said my saw was prutier than yours too, hehe. 

I'm like you Manual, who the hell really cares. You used your J'red today and I didn't even know it, grrrrrrr, that really upsets me, Right. Fact is just look down at my sig Manual, its says it all......


----------



## manual (Aug 20, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> I want you to know though I got a old 029 out in the shed. Runs perfect and I can honestly say ITS A BETTER 029 THAN YOURS,lololololol.
> 
> wanna race?
> I just tryed the Ultra smash test on her.
> ...


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 20, 2006)

manual said:


> THALL10326 said:
> 
> 
> > I want you to know though I got a old 029 out in the shed. Runs perfect and I can honestly say ITS A BETTER 029 THAN YOURS,lololololol.
> ...


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 20, 2006)

manual said:


> THALL10326 said:
> 
> 
> > I want you to know though I got a old 029 out in the shed. Runs perfect and I can honestly say ITS A BETTER 029 THAN YOURS,lololololol.
> ...


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 20, 2006)

04ultra said:


> manual said:
> 
> 
> > Dont you hate that when a good saw gets hurt...When my friend called me he thought i would come unglued...Yup I did.. But He had Insurance...LOL
> ...


----------



## manual (Aug 20, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwww no you didn't. I went home and told moma about it and she said I still won, so ha,lolololololol. She said my saw was prutier than yours too, hehe.
> 
> Thats ok now we both have "two toned huskys":yoyo:


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 20, 2006)

manual said:


> THALL10326 said:
> 
> 
> > Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwww no you didn't. I went home and told moma about it and she said I still won, so ha,lolololololol. She said my saw was prutier than yours too, hehe.
> ...


----------



## manual (Aug 20, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> 04ultra said:
> 
> 
> > Cry, are you kidding, I love it when they bring them in all broken up. I say well now looks like it needs a operation. I tossem up on the operating table and do my thing. As for me I've never as much as broken a pull rope. Yup thats a fact. After 2 cords of cutting in 30 years I've yet to break a rope, scratch a saw or use more than 2 gallons of gas,,,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:
> ...


----------



## manual (Aug 20, 2006)

04ultra said:


> manual said:
> 
> 
> > Dont you hate that when a good saw gets hurt...When my friend called me he thought i would come unglued...Yup I did.. But He had Insurance...LOL
> ...


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 20, 2006)

manual said:


> THALL10326 said:
> 
> 
> > Thats cuse you never take them out of your shed. your afraid the will fade.
> ...


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 20, 2006)

manual said:


> 04ultra said:
> 
> 
> > The only insurance I have is "I will never do that again" I hope.
> ...


----------



## manual (Aug 20, 2006)

well speaking of bed . thats where I got to go.
Hope you all liked my bed time story.
And Ultra you keep in touch with those feelings.
I'll Bet That took alot out of you to tells us that.


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 20, 2006)

manual said:


> well speaking . thats where I got to go.
> Hope you all liked my bad time story.
> And Ultra you keep in touch with those feelings.
> I'll Bet That took alot out of you to tells us that.


:hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Freakingstang (Aug 20, 2006)

500?


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 20, 2006)

Freakingstang said:


> 500?



What's 500


----------



## Freakingstang (Aug 20, 2006)

04ultra said:


> What's 500




24 to go....


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 20, 2006)

Freakingstang said:


> 24 to go....




Sounds like I need to try out a 441 soon..Might just find a need for one..


----------



## sawinredneck (Aug 20, 2006)

He's looking at post count Ultra, we need to instigate another pissing match, LOL!!
Andy


----------



## sawinredneck (Aug 20, 2006)

04ultra said:


> Sounds like I need to try out a 441 soon..Might just find a need for one..





After the last couple of days I am thinking I might need one!!!:deadhorse: 
Andy


----------



## Freakingstang (Aug 20, 2006)

will have to wait until I get back. Gotta pick up a pizza ....


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 20, 2006)

Got the hat and need a saw to go with it..


----------



## sawinredneck (Aug 20, 2006)

"And the bike is on it's way"


----------



## manual (Aug 20, 2006)

04ultra said:


> Got the hat and need a saw to go with it..



Now how can a chiansaw be a street Boss when you use it in the woods.

sounds like another movie.

OOOOOR Sthil is going to start making Motorcycles. Why not Husky did. LOL


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 20, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> Likewise the 441 should be compared to the 460 based on weight. The 441 is only being compared to the 440 because the 460 likely kicks the 441's ass!




Weight as comparison? Sure... than compare it to my Mac 250!  
I hope the 460 kicks the 441 ass... heck, it's a bigger more expensive saw!

I bet the 461 comes out on the same crankcase as the 441.. then what will you have to complain about?


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 20, 2006)

04ultra said:



> Got the hat and need a saw to go with it..




Hey, if you want the saw you'll have to pay for that!


----------



## manual (Aug 20, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> Hey, if you want the saw you'll have to pay for that!



Yea you brown noser.
Hey can you get anymore of those hats?


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 20, 2006)

I can.. maybe... They only ship one with each saw, so I have to "short the customer" to give them away!:monkey:


----------



## LarryTheCableGuy (Aug 20, 2006)

No, you have it all wrong. They only ship one saw with each hat.

.


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 20, 2006)

LarryTheCableGuy said:


> No, you have it all wrong. They only ship one saw with each hat.
> 
> .



Wonder if you buy the bike if you get the saw and the hat...:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## sawinredneck (Aug 20, 2006)

Ok I just had a scary thought!!!! With the close proximity in wieght and power, what do you think the odds of Stihl just dropping the 460 all together? Use the 441 for a replacemnt of both saws? Seen stranger and dumber things happen before!
Andy


----------



## LarryTheCableGuy (Aug 20, 2006)

04ultra said:


> Wonder if you buy the bike if you get the saw and the hat...:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


Buy a hat get a saw & bike. It's easier to tell your wife that you just bought a hat...

:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 20, 2006)

LarryTheCableGuy said:


> Buy a hat get a saw & bike. It's easier to tell your wife that you just bought a hat...
> 
> :hmm3grin2orange:



She dont care ...She would say its your money just buy it..LOL


----------



## LarryTheCableGuy (Aug 20, 2006)

04ultra said:


> She dont care ...She would say its your money just buy it..LOL


Ha! I thought that I was the only one that lucky!


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 20, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> Likewise the 441 should be compared to the 460 based on weight. The 441 is only being compared to the 440 because the 460 likely kicks the 441's ass!



OK Tree I just go home from the little tree job I did today. Sadly the trees I sawed down and up for the lady weren't big as she claimed. Heck they weren't much over 40 feet and maybe 16-18 inches around. I was hoping for big trees but anyway. I only made a few cuts with both the 441 and the 046. Was no need to use either saw for small wood like that. When I ran both saws today for a few cuts its hard to tell which one is quicker. Sorry Tree for I honestly wanted to give you a answer but I just didn't have the wood to work either saw. I can say it was 95 degrees and they were both put back on the truck. The 051(my play toy) never came off the truck. The saw that did all the work was that little old fashion 026. It as always ran perfecto and did the job just fine. That saw has made me more money than all my other saws combined. I know many say its old design and it is but like I say it just keeps on running and running. The trees never complained how fast the 026 was sawing them up and never did I. 

When I get some big wood Tree I'll run those saws again and maybe I can give you a better answer.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 20, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> Weight as comparison? Sure... than compare it to my Mac 250!
> I hope the 460 kicks the 441 ass... heck, it's a bigger more expensive saw!
> 
> I bet the 461 comes out on the same crankcase as the 441.. then what will you have to complain about?



Odd you say that Lake. One of the main men at Mid-Atlantic told me last week to look for many new models in the near future. Seems R&D at Stihl are on the ball just like all the other makers. He did say something I found interesting. I asked him his thoughts on the 441. He said quote "its the only saw he's ever run that makes him want to sell his 046" unquote. Coming from him thats a pretty strong statement.


----------



## spacemule (Aug 20, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> He said quote "its the only saw he's ever run that makes him want to sell his 046" unquote.


Wow, he's ready to give up on Stihl all together over one saw?


----------



## BlueRidgeMark (Aug 20, 2006)

bwalker said:


> I respectfuly diagree. I have one right now that I let my employees use that just puked a *lowe* rod bearing.




Well, THERE's your problem Ben. Quite buying parts at the box stores!  Get the genuine parts and they'll last longer!


Glad to help!


:biggrinbounce2:


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 20, 2006)

BlueRidgeMark said:


> Well, THERE's your problem Ben. Quite buying parts at the box stores!  Get the genuine parts and they'll last longer!
> 
> 
> Glad to help!
> ...




I cought that..


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 20, 2006)

BlueRidgeMark said:


> Well, THERE's your problem Ben. Quite buying parts at the box stores!  Get the genuine parts and they'll last longer!
> 
> 
> Glad to help!
> ...




I missed that !!!


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 20, 2006)

I'll do it.500


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 20, 2006)

Sorry THALL and Andy..


----------



## Freakingstang (Aug 20, 2006)

Freakingstang said:


> 500?




uh hum?


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 20, 2006)

Freakingstang said:


> uh hum?




:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Freakingstang (Aug 20, 2006)

what a matter ultra, didn't like my offer? lol. Not even a peep out of you on the matter....


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 20, 2006)

Freakingstang said:


> what a matter ultra, didn't like my offer? lol. Not even a peep out of you on the matter....



LOL


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 20, 2006)

04ultra said:


> Sorry THALL and Andy..



Its ok. I notice this thread got about 9000 plus views and over 500 posts. The "King of Saws" thread did about as well with 400 plus posts and over 11,000 views. Seems when I start a thread everyone jumps in and has a good ole time, can't beat that I say. This thread has run its course but its been fun..........


----------



## Freakingstang (Aug 20, 2006)

bought time you come out of the woods. 


So, how did the 441 do compared to the tried and tru 046?


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 20, 2006)

Freakingstang said:


> bought time you come out of the woods.
> 
> 
> So, how did the 441 do compared to the tried and tru 046?



Couldn't really compare them Stang, the trees weren't big enough. Shoot the gal told me they were big but when I saw them I thought what, they are nothing. Did make a few cuts with both saws though and its hard to tell the differance in small wood. It was 95 degrees Stang and in hot weather I grab the smallest saw that will fill the bill. The little 026 got all the work while the big boys sat on the tailgate and watched.

Maybe the next time I'll get a better log to play with the 441 and 460 and see how they compare. In 16-18inch wood I couldn't see much differance. 

I got my little 300.00 check for 3 hours work and came on home and sat in the a/c the rest of the evening. A/C today was way more important than judging saws. Ok, I admit it, I'm a woose in 95 degree weather, grrrrrrrrrrrrrr


----------



## Freakingstang (Aug 20, 2006)

I hear ya tom. I was out cutting all day with my 046BB. It runs pretty good, actually comparable to my king with a 20" bar. I had to put some time on it to getthings seated and squared away, only reason I had that big of a saw out today. It was swletering in the sun I tell you


----------



## SawTroll (Aug 21, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> MS 440
> STIHL Magnum™ 70.7 cc(4.3 c.i.) 4.0 kW (5.4 bhp) 6.3 kg(13.9 lbs.)
> 
> MS 441
> ...


I agree with you, the weight of the MS441 is a disappointment.

Last year the 440 was listed as weighting 6.1 kg, and the 460 6.5 kg, so the disadvantage of the 441 is greater than this years listings suggest. :bang:


----------



## belgian (Aug 21, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> Thanks Sawtroll.
> 
> My point was and still is the 441 weighs the same as the 460 yet it has 10% less horsepower. I see it as a disturbing trend with Stihl.
> 
> .



I read somewhere that the new 575 Husky was also heavier than the previous model, so EPA might have to do with that "trend". I doubt very much that Stihl or any other brand is focussing on additional weight, my guess it's a unvoluntary sacrifice for another, higher purpose, such as power, ergonomics or environmental issues.

No doubt that Thall is a little prejudged by presenting the 441, but his enthusiasm is that of a rare kind and honours him and the brand very well. And yes, the 441 still has to proof that it will perform in the long run, but from cutting air as you described, you can pretty well get a first impression if the saw has grunt or not. Heck, everyone who touched my 361  felt the difference with older model Stihl saws, just by triggering "in air".

And if the 441 performs equally as smooth as the 361, it will be a winner, no matter what.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 21, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> Thanks Sawtroll.
> 
> My point was and still is the 441 weighs the same as the 460 yet it has 10% less horsepower. I see it as a disturbing trend with Stihl.
> 
> .



I know you want play the same old song by cranking on your masters organ, but a data point of 1 doesn't make a trend. What are you you going to say "if" the 461 comes out on the same crankcase? Isn't your argument just like comparing an 034 to 036, an 064 to 066? an MS650 to an MS660? etc... 

Could you tell the difference in weight in a blind test with a 32 inch bar on each? I can't... and I have tried. But then again, I doubt you've even seen a 441 in the flesh. Do me a favor, go try it.

Belgian: Thanks for your balanced perspective.


----------



## belgian (Aug 21, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> Belgian: Thanks for your balanced perspective.



Andy, coming from you, I consider that a real compliment. Thanks


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 21, 2006)

Trying it will be the only way to judge this saw..

If I buy a case of beer and someone takes out one can and drinks half a can seals it up and puts it back will I be able to tell...Prob. not..


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 21, 2006)

04ultra said:


> Trying it will be the only way to judge this saw..
> 
> If I buy a case of beer and someone takes out one can and drinks half a can seals it up and puts it back will I be able to tell...Prob. not..




Not if you drink the other 11 first!:rockn:


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 21, 2006)

:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## belgian (Aug 21, 2006)

04ultra said:


> Trying it will be the only way to judge this saw..
> 
> If I buy a case of beer and someone takes out one can and drinks half a can seals it up and puts it back will I be able to tell...Prob. not..




Oh Oh, he's on the booze again :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 21, 2006)

belgian said:


> Oh Oh, he's on the booze again :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:




Coffee today last nite Jack..


----------



## bump_r (Aug 21, 2006)

bwalker said:


> Speaking of Freud and 346 races. I think it must be a phallic symbol or penus envy thing...Fast saw to compensate for a small wang maybe.



Soooo, what's that say about is chumps that run 290s? We must be friggin' HUGE!!


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 21, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> Thanks Sawtroll.
> 
> My point was and still is the 441 weighs the same as the 460 yet it has 10% less horsepower. I see it as a disturbing trend with Stihl.
> 
> ...



LOLOLOL, Tree that 8 ounces really tears a big one in you don't it,lol. I bet that little ferry figure from e-bay weighs more than that and I don't hear you moaning about that,lolol. Fact 1 is Tree all you have done in this thread is made a big tissy over something you know nothing about to keep it going. You've looked at that 8 ounces, on paper mind ya, and have played armchair quarteback ever since. Fact 2 is I've bought it, I've used it, both of which you haven't done, so I know more about it than you, like it or lump it. Fact 3and foremost the 8 ounces you continue to harp about has made you the laffing stock of the site. You have gone from arborist to expert on vibrating things to ferry buyer and now organ grinder. You say employee to rase me, ha. Sure beats being called the things you been hit with in this thread. Tree have you no pride at all. Finally you should give it up, you and me both know whats this is all about and you are not going to win. I promised you that and you've been trying ever since and look where its gotton you to, a organ grinder,lolol. You tried the same non-sense on the square ground chain thread and got stomped there too. Give it up Tree. Haven't you been embarrassed enough. Where's your pride at ole buddy.

BTW Tree are you on the market for a new saw, got some nice 441's in stock. You, especailly you, should get one just so you will know once and for all what your talking about instead of assuming off paper. Just trying to help you out Tree,,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 21, 2006)

*So funny*

Over 500 posts, over 9400 views and they said I was the one advertising, yup yup, smart , real smart,,


----------



## manual (Aug 21, 2006)

Yea good one thall, all that advertising.
Now everybody knows what it means to be apart of the Sthil pro club.


----------



## belgian (Aug 21, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Over 500 posts, over 9400 views and they said I was the one advertising, yup yup, smart , real smart,,




Hey Thall, everyone knew you were advertising, it is the way HOW you advertise that does the trick....


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 21, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> It's 10% less horsepower than the 460 and it weighs the same as the 460.
> 
> I realize it's a difficult concept for ya Thall.



When you drop the club on a tree who cares how much it weighs...


I looks like a nice saw in person..Just left my dealer and he sold 4 last week and said when more come in they will go .. Feels nice in the show room..I picked up a 440 then 441 then 460 ..Unless your weaker then me I dont see much difference in weight .. The 441 looks and feels different then other two ..There going to have a price for me when I pick up my parts on Wed..

Dan go try one you might just like it..If I can get a good deal I might buy one ...


----------



## Ekka (Aug 21, 2006)

Ok my first post in this huge thread, so I aint gonna read it all.

I own both a 440 and a 460. I certainly notice the weight different between the two.

No BS, what's the difference between the new 441 and the old 440 in weight and HP?


----------



## LarryTheCableGuy (Aug 21, 2006)

Ultra:

What handles did the 440 & 460 have? Just curious...

.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 21, 2006)

manual said:


> Yea good one thall, all that advertising.
> Now everybody knows what it means to be apart of the Sthil pro club.



lolol, good one Manual. See the thing is I said this thread had run its course pages ago. Seems some want to keep it going and thats cool. The funny part is Tree harping about one Stihl when he has 12 Stihls, strange huh. The reason he's up in arms over the 441 has nothing to do with the saw, its more the chip I put on his shoulder a month or so ago. He knows it and I know it too. With him its personal toward me, with me its hilarious and it bugs him. If you watch closely you will see how he replies to any post I put up. He'll get over it one day and when he does we'll be good ole buds. 

As for the advertising yeah, seems the 441 is moving off the shelves pretty fast. Goes to show people have a hard time beleiving those that have yet to touch the product verses those who have,hmmmmmmmmmm. Awwwwwwww did I say that, I feel terrible, really I do.(wink) I know that will bring on more advertising from the uhhhhhhhhh, whats the best way to say it in two words, awwwww yes, THE UNTOUCHABLES,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 21, 2006)

LarryTheCableGuy said:


> Ultra:
> 
> What handles did the 440 & 460 have? Just curious...
> 
> .




they had wrap handles on them.. only the 660 had flush handle on the display rack..


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 21, 2006)

belgian said:


> Hey Thall, everyone knew you were advertising, it is the way HOW you advertise that does the trick....



lolol, hey wait a minute. I had to spend some big bucks before I came on here,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: 

Fact is I wrote what I thought about the saw, thats all. I like it and will continue to like it no matter how bad Tree and Ben beat me up,(yeah right,maybe in the next century) I will still like that saw,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 21, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> It's 10% less horsepower than the 460 and it weighs the same as the 460.
> 
> I realize it's a difficult concept for ya Thall. Maybe even harder for ya than square ground chain.



Yes Tree, ok, your correct, I'm very difficult for you to understand too so let me help ya a bit. Square ground chain, great for racing, not worth two cents in dirty wood, thats a well known fact. 441 or 460, hmmm odd you bring those up, I happen to have both, I thought you knew that. You should get a 441 Tree and you'll have both too. I did read somewhere though they weighed the same but one had 10% less power. However one is so much smoother than the other, I know that for a fact. Worth 10%, hmmmm, Yup. Why, easy answer, COMFORT. The wood doesn't care one way or the other.


----------



## fishhuntcutwood (Aug 21, 2006)

OK, I was gone for four days, and I come back to this thread at 36 pages long, and there's two sides to it now. I'm not going to read the whole thing, so.....what are we arguing about? I thought Andy had already let us know that the added weight was due to a new case design geared for additional reliability, and thus the added weight.

What'd I miss?


----------



## sawinredneck (Aug 21, 2006)

fishhuntcutwood said:


> OK, I was gone for four days, and I come back to this thread at 36 pages long, and there's two sides to it now. I'm not going to read the whole thing, so.....what are we arguing about? I thought Andy had already let us know that the added weight was due to a new case design geared for additional reliability, and thus the added weight.
> 
> What'd I miss?




"New 441, nice, smooth saw, cuts great, really like it" Thall

"New 441, wieghs half pound less, with a half a horse less power than 460, why buy it?" Treeco

Pissing match ensues......................


----------



## fishhuntcutwood (Aug 21, 2006)

sawinredneck said:


> "New 441, nice, smooth saw, cuts great, really like it" Thall
> 
> "New 441, wieghs half pound less, with a half a horse less power than 460, why buy it?" Treeco
> 
> Pissing match ensues......................



Excellent post Andy. That's what I thought was going on. Where does Ben weigh in? I was just in Nequanee yesterday...seriously.


----------



## sawinredneck (Aug 21, 2006)

Can't say I have even seen Ben touch this one?!?!?!
Andy


----------



## Just Mow (Aug 21, 2006)

wait a minute......opcorn: 
this isn't the king of beers thread  :jester:


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 21, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> It's 10% less horsepower than the 460 and it weighs the same as the 460.
> .




Same old music... You must think we can't read, or maybe your tape is stuck in an endless loop?

As for weight/power... so was the 034, but it didn't stop it being a more popular saw than the 036 (by numbers sold, not "pro votes") - simply because it sold for less less. 

Stihl also makes an MS341... and if you go to Canada you can get one, but why would you buy a saw that weighs the same and has 10% less less to offer, unless it costs less...

Just go buy one, or two.


----------



## spacemule (Aug 21, 2006)

Why is it so hard for Stihl dealers to admit that less power for the same weight is a negative?


----------



## sawinredneck (Aug 21, 2006)

spacemule said:


> Why is it so hard for Stihl dealers to admit that less power for the same weight is a negative?




That one I have to give you Space!!!! But again, look at the Husky 575 and 570 vs. thier replacements, same story, different band:bang: 
Andy


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 21, 2006)

Cant wait to see a few modded 441's ...


----------



## spacemule (Aug 21, 2006)

sawinredneck said:


> That one I have to give you Space!!!! But again, look at the Husky 575 and 570 vs. thier replacements, same story, different band:bang:
> Andy


I agree on the Husky designs also. But, seems that no one vehemently defended the new Husky designs like this. If one values smoothness over weight, great. But, that doesn't lessen the fact that more weight and less power are negatives, even if they are small negatives.


----------



## sawinredneck (Aug 21, 2006)

04ultra said:


> Cant wait to see a few modded 441's ...




That one I will give you Ultra!!!! If the case is that beefed up, should be lots of room for increases!!!!
Andy


----------



## sawinredneck (Aug 21, 2006)

spacemule said:


> I agree on the Husky designs also. But, seems that no one vehemently defended the new Husky designs like this. If one values smoothness over weight, great. But, that doesn't lessen the fact that more weight and less power are negatives, even if they are small negatives.




Because Space, we the site has become Husky friendlier, but we are still manly a bunch of STIHL FREAKS!!!!! Only reasonable answer I can give you.
Andy


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 21, 2006)

Detune to meet epa standards ...Then the fun starts...


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 21, 2006)

spacemule said:


> Why is it so hard for Stihl dealers to admit that less power for the same weight is a negative?




Maybe because the people that actually buy them look beyond this one simple thing... Stihl's been doing this for 15 years... and the answer is in the numbers.

And, to correct you sir, there are no Stihl dealers "defending" this - only mere employees :rockn:


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 21, 2006)

spacemule said:


> Why is it so hard for Stihl dealers to admit that less power for the same weight is a negative?



Its not hard to admit at all Space. What your forgetting is the 441 is not replacing the 460, its replacing the 440. It has more power than the 440 and weighs more than the 440, so whats the issue? The 460 is still on the shelf if you want more power. Don't forget the more power , less smoothness and more money, sounds like a choice between the two is pretty obvious. Bring Visa and you can choose whatever ya like,wink.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 21, 2006)

04ultra said:


> Cant wait to see a few modded 441's ...




Muffer and Airbox mods will yield more than 10%... I predict But then the filter won't stay as clean. Oh no... a hot saw that needs its filter cleaned


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 21, 2006)

sawinredneck said:


> That one I have to give you Space!!!! But again, look at the Husky 575 and 570 vs. thier replacements, same story, different band:bang:
> Andy




Hey, do they have organ-grinding monkey's too?


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 21, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> Muffer and Airbox mods will yield more than 10%... I predict But then the filter won't stay as clean. Oh no... a hot saw that needs its filter cleaned



But that cant be...More power..OH-NO cant be ...:sword:


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 21, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Its not hard to admit at all Space. What your forgetting is the 441 is not replacing the 460, its replacing the 440. It has more power than the 440 and weighs more than the 440, so whats the issue? The 460 is still on the shelf if you want more power. Don't forget the more power , less smoothness and more money, sounds like a choice between the two is pretty obvious. Bring Visa and you can choose whatever ya like,wink.




It's O.k. Thall.. the music will change when the 461 comes out. Wow, more power, same weight :taped:


----------



## Freakingstang (Aug 21, 2006)

It's still got more weight to begin with.. Kinda like starting with a camaro or a caprice....Mustang or LTD. Either way, it is still a boat anchor,


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 21, 2006)

I forgot ...What about all the weight in that muffler that will be gone when modded..Could loose maybe a shot glass or two...And still have 10% increase...WOW


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 21, 2006)

Freakingstang said:


> It's still got more weight to begin with.. Kinda like starting with a camaro or a caprice....Mustang or LTD. Either way, it is still a boat anchor,



Heavy one too,,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 21, 2006)

04ultra said:


> I forgot ...What about all the weight in that muffler that will be gone when modded..Could loose maybe a shot glass or two...




Nothin... See the 361 mod... other ways are too much of PITA. Hmmm.. Could use my fancy new mill to make an entire new muffer.. Where's that cube of Titanium I found a Boeing employees garage sale last year??


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 21, 2006)

spacemule said:


> I agree on the Husky designs also. But, seems that no one vehemently defended the new Husky designs like this. If one values smoothness over weight, great. But, that doesn't lessen the fact that more weight and less power are negatives, even if they are small negatives.





Hey Space, check your facts. It has more power than a 440!opcorn:


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 21, 2006)

04ultra said:


> I forgot ...What about all the weight in that muffler that will be gone when modded..Could loose maybe a shot glass or two...And still have 10% increase...WOW




Want to loose 8 ounces? Just don't fill it up with gas!


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 21, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> Want to loose 8 ounces? Just don't fill it up with gas!


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 21, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> It's O.k. Thall.. the music will change when the 461 comes out. Wow, more power, same weight :taped:



Yup, then the tune will be "Its got too much power for what it weighs,nag nag nag ,",lololol


----------



## sawinredneck (Aug 21, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Yup, then the tune will be "Its got too much power for what it weighs,nag nag nag ,",lololol




Yep, that'll be me


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 21, 2006)

sawinredneck said:


> Yep, that'll be me



hahahahaha. Hey Andy remember this Johnny Cash song?

"If I were a carpenter and you was a lady, would you marry me anyway, although I'm 8 ounces heavyyyy",:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 21, 2006)

Lake time for you to cut one apart and do your magic.. Might it be done already...:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## sawinredneck (Aug 21, 2006)

Booo!!!!!!!!


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 21, 2006)

sawinredneck said:


> Booo!!!!!!!!




  , awwwwwwwww I thought it was a great song,lolol


----------



## fishhuntcutwood (Aug 21, 2006)

sawinredneck said:


> Can't say I have even seen Ben touch this one?!?!?!
> Andy



Alright. I thought I heard Tom mention Ben and Dan earlier. Nevermind...I'll just sit back... opcorn:


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 21, 2006)

fishhuntcutwood said:


> Alright. I thought I heard Tom mention Ben and Dan earlier. Nevermind...I'll just sit back... opcorn:



Dan must be out hunting AS rascals.....


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 21, 2006)

fishhuntcutwood said:


> Alright. I thought I heard Tom mention Ben and Dan earlier. Nevermind...I'll just sit back... opcorn:



You heard right Fish. Have to go way back several pages. Ben was hammering away and Tree was playing back up. Can't say I ever talked to Ben much before this thread, heck I didn't even know his name. We went around and around and around. Ole Tree now, him and me, well lets just say between him and me we know what is what. 

Ben seems to know saws pretty good from what I could tell. The whole shin dig is over I've tried out the saw and they haven't. I liked it, they don't because of the weight, not because they used it yet. Has been a amazing thread to say the least. Heck I thought it was over several pages back but like the song goes, The Beat Goes On. We've hit 560 plus posts and over 10,500 views now. At the rate we're going the 441 will be the most famous saw in the world. That being said I can't knock my ole buddy Tree too much or Ben either one.


----------



## sawinredneck (Aug 21, 2006)

Sorry Jeff, 36 pages LOL!!!! A guy tends to lose track of a few things!!!
Andy


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 21, 2006)

Arb Site factoid: Rascals can be hard to find...


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 22, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> It does seem a rather stupid stance the Stihl employees have taken.
> 
> But Lakeside does say more power, same weight, is a good thing if the new 461 meets the criteria.
> 
> ...



Tree the only thing stupid in this whole thread is that its still going on thanks to you. This thing should have been done with 10 pages ago but oh no, you got to have it your way and get the the last word. Remember as well if your going to rank a saw and judge it use it first,,hmmmm. Lets give it a rest now Tree. Niters ole Buddy, I'm off to bed.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 22, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> On a board full of chain saw enthusiast it's ridiculous to talk about the 'best saw' as being best because it sold the most.
> 
> 
> When talking with Stihl employees about the ranking of Stihl saws to avoid confusion we are going to have to start using a Stock holders' rating......and a 'Pro' rating.
> ...




If I didn't know better, you sound just like the old sap (pre - 3rd cooler). Hey, if Stihl was a public company, I'd sure buy stock.

Time for you to give up, you grinding "enthusiast..."; All you're left with is taking quotes out of context.. or maybe you just don't understand the context...


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 22, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> If I didn't know better, you sound just like the old sap (pre - 3rd cooler). Hey, if Stihl was a public company, I'd sure buy stock.
> 
> Time for you to give up, you grinding "enthusiast..."; All you're left with is taking quotes out of context.. or maybe you just don't understand the context...








yup:deadhorse:


----------



## LarryTheCableGuy (Aug 22, 2006)

Damn, this is like a bad 8 track tape, on and on, over and over...you know, the kind that either quit or get chucked out the window.

.


----------



## Ekka (Aug 22, 2006)

well, since no-one directly answered my question I'll have to Pm Sap.

He's the authority on all saws and will give me the most accurate and truthful answer.

Anyway, if I was loaded with dough, judging by what i have read here, I'd be buying up all the old 440's.


----------



## coveredinsap (Aug 22, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> If I didn't know better, you sound just like the old sap (pre - 3rd cooler). Hey, if Stihl was a public company, I'd sure buy stock.
> 
> Time for you to give up, you grinding "enthusiast..."; All you're left with is taking quotes out of context.. or maybe you just don't understand the context...



Huh? I've stayed out of this until now, but there you go dragging me into it.



TreeCo said:


> Lake you and Thall blow more smoke than non EPA chainsaws!LOL
> 
> Back to the basics.
> 
> ...



So if I'm getting this correctly, the newfangled whiz-bang Stihl super duper new improved 441 has arrived...and it has a lower power to weight ratio than the model it replaces, which the Stihl fans are promoting now as a _good thing_????? LOL!!!! And after all that badmouthing of the Husky 455 Rancher for a similar offense????? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 22, 2006)

Wow, now Sap sounds just like Treeco!:monkey: 

Wait, there is is a difference....

Treeco:*Bahahaha*

Sap:*HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!*


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 22, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> Lake you and Thall blow more smoke than non EPA chainsaws!LOL
> 
> Back to the basics.
> 
> ...




NAg Nag Nag... You should just stay with your light weight 038's!


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 22, 2006)

04ultra said:


> they had wrap handles on them.. only the 660 had flush handle on the display rack..




Did the MS441 have a wrap handle, big cover/dog etc?


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 22, 2006)

coveredinsap said:


> Huh? I've stayed out of this until now, but there you go dragging me into it.
> 
> 
> 
> So if I'm getting this correctly, the newfangled whiz-bang Stihl super duper new improved 441 has arrived...and it has a lower power to weight ratio than the model it replaces, which the Stihl fans are promoting now as a _good thing_????? LOL!!!! And after all that badmouthing of the Husky 455 Rancher for a similar offense????? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!



LOL,Sap I knew you had to be reading this thread, you sucker. You got to admit it has been entertaining,lol. As for the saws its sorta like riding down a gravel road with alittle less power and a tad less weight(440-Chevy) verses riding down the highway super smooth with a touch more weight and a touch more power(441-Caddliac). I'll take the Caddilac anyday. 

Sap hows the ole Remmington running????


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 22, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> NAg Nag Nag... You should just stay with your light weight 038's!



BINGO Lake, you got it. Oddly though most organ grinders move around when they are naggin, oops, I mean cranking, they don't sit on the same curb for days on in., hehe.

About a hour ago a man walked in here with Stihl to be Cuda'ised. While talking saws he said he just picked up a new 361 and a new 441. I asked him his thoughts on both saws. He's a tree man and claims he has run nothing but Stihl's for years and years. He said he loved them both, especailly the 441. He said the exact samething I said, its super smooth and cuts great. Goes to show those that have actually used the saw have a very different opinion of those that have not, why is that. I think I know why. The ones that haven't used it but have already found fault with it are BLOWING SMOKE,lolol. Tree please lite that cigarette instead of just puffing it. You look kinda funny sucking air and blowing invisable SMOKE,(wink)

I also asked that guy why he didn't buy those saws from me. He said he got a deal he could not pass up. Claims he got the 361 for 400.00 and , get this, the 441 for 795.00. Seems some dealer knows how to sell one for cost and one at retail huh. I told the guy the 441 lists for 749.00 and he just looked at me. I told him he still got a great deal though so he was all smiles........


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 22, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> The ones that haven't used it but have already found fault with it are BLOWING SMOKE,lolol. Tree please lite that cigarette instead of just puffing it. You look kinda funny sucking air and blowing invisable SMOKE,(wink)





Hey Treeco, it's OK so long as you don't INHALE. lololol


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 22, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> I am considering getting rid of my (4) 038mags.




You'll have NO problem getting rid of those old heavy saws, even to Pro enthusiasts, and even on AS!


----------



## spacemule (Aug 22, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Tree please lite that cigarette instead of just puffing it. You look kinda funny sucking air and blowing invisable SMOKE,(wink)


So, will the 441 give you cancer?


----------



## LarryTheCableGuy (Aug 22, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> Your personal experience no doubt!
> 
> Thall's imaginary user comments remind me of second and third hand reports of UFO sightings.LOL
> 
> Get 'em to sign on here at AS and tell their story Thall. Maybe find someone who has run more that a tank of gas through one.


Why? You would just dispute it anyways, even though you haven't even touched one.

Stupid Kansas/Journey/Foreigner/Styx 8-Track... 

.


----------



## manual (Aug 22, 2006)

coveredinsap said:


> Huh? I've stayed out of this until now, but there you go dragging me into it.
> 
> 
> 
> So if I'm getting this correctly, the newfangled whiz-bang Stihl super duper new improved 441 has arrived...and it has a lower power to weight ratio than the model it replaces, which the Stihl fans are promoting now as a _good thing_????? LOL!!!! And after all that badmouthing of the Husky 455 Rancher for a similar offense????? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!




Welcome to the party Sap. 
Yep you are going to see a lot of changes with the Sthil fans.
Now that Sthil is Mimicking a Husky.
Hey did you read the one about a guy standing up for Sthil and then wanting to prove it by racing his Husky. yuk yuk yuk yuk yuk yuk yuk


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 22, 2006)

TreeCo said:
 

> Your personal experience no doubt!
> 
> Thall's imaginary user comments remind me of second and third hand reports of UFO sightings.LOL
> 
> Get 'em to sign on here at AS and tell their story Thall. Maybe find someone who has run more that a tank of gas through one.



Imaginary,haha, thats the best word to describe your knowledge of the saw isn't Tree, IMAGINARY, awwww I love it. Tree if you want to keep this thread going forever thats ok with me. However beware of the words you use, they tend to come back and haunt you. Imagine that,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 22, 2006)

spacemule said:


> So, will the 441 give you cancer?



lol, I don't know Space. It sure looks like it will give some folks on here a case of the agru-itis,lololol.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 22, 2006)

LarryTheCableGuy said:


> Why? You would just dispute it anyways, even though you haven't even touched one.
> 
> Stupid Kansas/Journey/Foreigner/Styx 8-Track...
> 
> .



Awwwwwwww now Larry, Tree will not dispute the facts. Tree is a very fair and balanced man. True he is disputing the facts at the present time only because he's yet to touch the saw.(hmm) Once he does he will have the facts and maybe come away with a different point of view. Till then however there is a big cloud of smoke forming over Atlanta,wink. Clear as a bell here in the DC area. Has the smoke formed out where your at Larry, if so relax, its only Tree blowing smoke, its harmless, all in fun. In fact I think he likes this non-sense and if so cool. Hell we can all play along...


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 22, 2006)

Six more and it's 600 posts - uh, make that 5


----------



## CaseyForrest (Aug 22, 2006)

1


----------



## CaseyForrest (Aug 22, 2006)

2


----------



## CaseyForrest (Aug 22, 2006)

3


----------



## CaseyForrest (Aug 22, 2006)

4


----------



## CaseyForrest (Aug 22, 2006)

*600*


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 22, 2006)

*Okkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk Fellers, You Too Tree*

600 posts, 10,550 plus views. I don' know about you guys but I think we've argued enough on this saw. I for one am gonna step aside for my lungs can't handle this one anymore. Cassey since you hit number 600 its your turn to start a new thread to argue over. Make it a good one. Your goal will be to top this one. Ready set go.......


----------



## spike60 (Aug 22, 2006)

Wasn't there an old 50's sci fi movie "The thread that wouldn't die"?


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 22, 2006)

spike60 said:


> Wasn't there an old 50's sci fi movie "The thread that wouldn't die"?




LOLOLOLOLOL, dayumm you Spike,LOLOLOLOLOLOL


----------



## spike60 (Aug 22, 2006)

Hey guys, think we can take it to 1,000?


----------



## LarryTheCableGuy (Aug 22, 2006)

You betcha!

.


----------



## CaseyForrest (Aug 22, 2006)

Ok, since Im the lucky weiner, Ill give it a go!!!


----------



## sawinredneck (Aug 22, 2006)

spike60 said:


> Hey guys, think we can take it to 1,000?





OHHHHHHHHH.... The HUMANITY OF IT ALL!!!!!!!!


----------



## CaseyForrest (Aug 22, 2006)

Hey, thall, the 441 looks to much like a Husky, so its junk IMO!

Makes allot of noise when you start it too, I thought it was supposed to be a quiet saw...pure Stihl trash.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 22, 2006)

Yeah Thall, dump it in Casey's trash and get a Husky 575!:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## coveredinsap (Aug 22, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> BINGO Lake, you got it. Oddly though most organ grinders move around when they are naggin, oops, I mean cranking, they don't sit on the same curb for days on in., hehe.
> 
> About a hour ago a man walked in here with Stihl to be Cuda'ised. While talking saws he said he just picked up a new 361 and a new 441. I asked him his thoughts on both saws. He's a tree man and claims he has run nothing but Stihl's for years and years. He said he loved them both, especailly the 441. He said the exact samething I said, its super smooth and cuts great. Goes to show those that have actually used the saw have a very different opinion of those that have not, why is that. I think I know why. The ones that haven't used it but have already found fault with it are BLOWING SMOKE,lolol. Tree please lite that cigarette instead of just puffing it. You look kinda funny sucking air and blowing invisable SMOKE,(wink)
> 
> I also asked that guy why he didn't buy those saws from me. He said he got a deal he could not pass up. Claims he got the 361 for 400.00 and , get this, the 441 for 795.00. Seems some dealer knows how to sell one for cost and one at retail huh. I told the guy the 441 lists for 749.00 and he just looked at me. I told him he still got a great deal though so he was all smiles........




Now I'm not singling you out Thall, but your post brings up a good point.

How many are there here who badmouthed the Husky 455 Rancher actually cut with one for a while?

So in other words, you are saying that unless we have cut with the new Stihl, we have no business making comments about it? Because that doesn't seem to have been a hinderance to the Stihl fans commenting about the 455 Rancher...or any other saw for that matter.

Could it be that we are seeing a double standard in action here? Why, I'm shocked! shocked I say!

Of course, I knew all along that those who haven't used the 455 Rancher were (in your words) "BLOWING SMOKE,lolol".


----------



## sawinredneck (Aug 22, 2006)

Ok Sap, I have run one, and side by side my 350 will cut circles around it, shorter bar, smaller chain and .02 less hp. that is the way they come factory. 350 weighs less and balances better, I will never own a 455, probably get a 353 someday, but no 455!!
Andy


----------



## coveredinsap (Aug 22, 2006)

sawinredneck said:


> Ok Sap, I have run one, and side by side my 350 will cut circles around it, shorter bar, smaller chain and .02 less hp. that is the way they come factory. 350 weighs less and balances better, I will never own a 455, probably get a 353 someday, but no 455!!
> Andy



Funny that, while I didn't cut with the 350, it felt rather 'frail' for a 50cc saw compared to the 455 when I was looking at them. I guess it boils down to personal preference. Although it is ironic that the Stihl fans don't seem to have a problem with weight when it's added to _their_ saws. LOL!


----------



## sawinredneck (Aug 22, 2006)

coveredinsap said:


> Funny that, while I didn't cut with the 350, it felt rather 'frail' for a 50cc saw compared to the 455 when I was looking at them. I guess it boils down to personal preference. Although it is ironic that the Stihl fans don't seem to have a problem with weight when it's added to _their_ saws. LOL!




If "frail" is what you want to call it, OK? but use one all day in the woods, that "frailty" is nice at the end of the day!!! I am with you on this, I pitched a b!tch about the 570/575 Husky, I am not sold on the 441 yet either. I am just choosing to go ahead and accept the fact that I think we are hossed from here on out, in that the little light weight hotrods of yesterday are gone!!!!! The thing I do like about the 441 though, it does weigh a little less than a 460 and with a little tweaking, should have more power, and is cheaper to boot.
Just something to think about.
Andy


----------



## sawinredneck (Aug 22, 2006)

In all actuality Sap, I went to buy a 575xp when I bought my ms390!!! I regret not buying a 440, but from what I have read seen and heard do not regret not buying a 575.
Andy


----------



## sawinredneck (Aug 22, 2006)

Sorry SAP, wasn't starting another match, just telling you I am on the fence with the new saws myself. Baileys has the 372xp on sale right now, I cannot stress how hard it was not to pull the trigger on that deal:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: 
Andy


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 22, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> Did the MS441 have a wrap handle, big cover/dog etc?



No the 441 they had on display was a flush handle .. The 440 and 460 were wraps.. the 460 had 28 bar on it so did the 440 ..Just found not much difference in weight between them..There going to quote me for a 441 with 28 on it..


Sap my brother in-law had a 455 and I tried it ..It had trouble after hard use for a year.. He sold it and bought a ms 361 and one of my ms660's and said he was glad that he made the move.. Husky make some good saw as does Stihl ..I own 2 Huskys but there the kind you wouldn't spend the money for which I understand.. That is your preference..I can say I have used one and wasn't that impressed with it...


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 22, 2006)

coveredinsap said:


> Now I'm not singling you out Thall, but your post brings up a good point.
> 
> How many are there here who badmouthed the Husky 455 Rancher actually cut with one for a while?
> 
> ...



Well thats kind of you Sap for not singleing me out. As for all the talk about the 455 if you search most all my posts you will find I rarely knock other brands. Oh I admit I may use your saw to get at you on a personal note to a degree but to knock the saw or brand itself I don't see much point in it. 

As for me saying unless you have used the saw you have no right to make comments, thats not what I'm saying at all. Everyone is free to their opinions, shoot its a free country. The problem with this thread is one of the ones who is so hard press to knock the saw is in fact a 12 saw Stihl user. Seems very odd a man would have a slew of Stihl's and turn around and hammer just one Stihl that I happen to own, hmmmm. Easy to figure out whats going on here. He is in fact doing as I told you above Sap, using the saw to get at me personally and he can't.(hint Tree, you never will)The other one pulled alittle trickerly with weights comparing one saw againist another, he kept it secret and got caught. So in all Sap far as I'm concerned this whole thread wasn't much about the saw at all. In the beginning it was but as usual it took a turn due to the same old tactics by the same ole people. 

Blowing smoke, hell yeah Sap. Here's a toast to you Sap, I AGREE WITH YOU ON THAT 100%,lol, really I do. This thread had been a doosey thanks to blowing smoke, that I agree and I'm guilty of it as well in defending my little poor ole 441 that is overwieght by a ton, well ok, 8 ounces, underpowered to the one its replacing, which it is not, vibrates like a dog, which it doesn't. 
The 440 cuts faster, which it does not. See Sap I know these things because I've ran them both. I say the 8 ounces is well worth the advantage over the 440. So hell yeah Sap, you are right, been alot of blowing smoke. I blow smoke to defend what I know to be fact and they blow smoke not knowing. Shoot Sap blowing smoke is how this thread got to be so long,lolol. 

Sap I did notice you stayed out of the blow smoke thread for a mighty long time but I knew you had to be reading it. Got to admit its amusing isn't it. Come on and join in the blow smoke thread Sap, we're all having fun. Deal is now make it a 1000 post thread. Take my place Sap and I take yours and read awhile. Wait, that is after I go after Cassey talking about my saw, dayumm his hide. Cassey put up your dukes buddy , here's I's comes.........


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 22, 2006)

spike60 said:


> Hey guys, think we can take it to 1,000?



Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. Your alot of help Spike,:hmm3grin2orange: 

Ok 1000 it is,lol


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 22, 2006)

CaseyForrest said:


> Hey, thall, the 441 looks to much like a Husky, so its junk IMO!
> 
> Makes allot of noise when you start it too, I thought it was supposed to be a quiet saw...pure Stihl trash.



Okkkkkkkkkk thats it, now ya done went and done it. Now I gots to gives ya a whoppin, you uhhhhhhhhhhhh, uhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, hold on I'm thinking here. Ok, I got it, you heathen of a Stihl man you. Hows dares ya come's down on my Prince of Saws when for long one will be on your shelf. I can't wait to say I told ya so, :hmm3grin2orange: you , you, uhhhhhhhhhh, uhhhhhhhhhhhh, hmm, since your gonna get one, you ole pal of mine,:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## CaseyForrest (Aug 22, 2006)

<<<<<< cough cough >>>>>>>

*ATTENTION*

The party has been moved across the street. Tom has had his share of attention. Please direct yourselves and anyone in your party to MY thread, Thank You.


----------



## fishhuntcutwood (Aug 22, 2006)

CaseyForrest said:


> <<<<<< cough cough >>>>>>>
> 
> *ATTENTION*
> 
> The party has been moved across the street. Tom has had his share of attention. Please direct yourselves and anyone in your party to MY thread, Thank You.



Aw c'mon Casey. Tom was hoping for at least 50 pages. 

Do you have a keg?


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 22, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> Wow, now Sap sounds just like Treeco!:monkey:
> 
> Wait, there is is a difference....
> 
> ...




Who am I ????


BWAHHAHAHAhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!!!!! ...

BWAHHAHAHAhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!

Jesus H. Christ man....


----------



## CaseyForrest (Aug 22, 2006)

I have brats, dogs and burgers. Chips, melon, and soda....and a few saws.


----------



## sawinredneck (Aug 22, 2006)

04ultra said:


> Who am I ????
> 
> 
> BWAHHAHAHAhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!!!!! ...
> ...





UMMMMMMMMM.................... UUmmmmmmmm................... OOoooo............ I know this one, I do.........................
Andy


----------



## Rspike (Aug 22, 2006)

*********YAWN************ The only thing this thread is doing now is "filling up my inbox" at my posted email address. We all know the Poulan "wild thing" is the best of the best and all other chainsaws are just a different purdy color.


----------



## RaisedByWolves (Aug 22, 2006)

Heres another one for ya Spike!


----------



## RaisedByWolves (Aug 22, 2006)

Hey, I know, lets see if we can fill his PM box now......


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 22, 2006)

Rspike said:


> *********YAWN************ The only thing this thread is doing now is "filling up my inbox" at my posted email address. We all know the Poulan "wild thing" is the best of the best and all other chainsaws are just a different purdy color.



RSPIKE you can turn that off..Then you wont get all the Hate mail..


----------



## sawinredneck (Aug 22, 2006)

fishhuntcutwood said:


> Aw c'mon Casey. Tom was hoping for at least 50 pages.
> 
> Do you have a keg?




So did you go check one out yet Jeff? The 441, not the keg 
Andy


----------



## Rspike (Aug 22, 2006)

RaisedByWolves - 04ultra ---------> "HEY" !
:yoyo:


----------



## Rspike (Aug 22, 2006)

04ultra said:


> RSPIKE you can turn that off..Then you wont get all the Hate mail..


True ...... true .........opcorn:


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 22, 2006)

Rspike said:


> True ...... true .........opcorn:





:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 22, 2006)

04ultra said:


> Who am I ????
> 
> 
> BWAHHAHAHAhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!!!!! ...
> ...






Treeco:Bahahaha

HA! I can now see where tree got the "B" from!:hmm3grin2orange: 

It's o.k. Sap, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 22, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> Treeco:Bahahaha
> 
> HA! I can now see where tree got the "B" from!:hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> It's o.k. Sap, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.



Lake your a cruel man,lol. Although they tell me I got my southern accent listening to Elvis too much. I don't see how but I told em thankya, thankya very much anyway.


----------



## coveredinsap (Aug 22, 2006)

_Only_ 8 ounces???? 8 ounces is 1/2 lb!

And no, I haven't been reading this thread....sorry. About the first three pages is all ....and then I came back in at around page 36 or so. So I haven't even seen over 30 pages worth of this thread (and I don't think I missed anything either).


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 22, 2006)

coveredinsap said:


> _Only_ 8 ounces???? 8 ounces is 1/2 lb!
> 
> And no, I haven't been reading this thread....sorry. About the first three pages is all ....and then I came back in at around page 36 or so. So I haven't even seen over 30 pages worth of this thread (and I don't think I missed anything either).




Hey we agree on something - "8 ounces is half a pound"! 

All you missed in the 30 pages was a bunch of fun!


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 22, 2006)

coveredinsap said:


> _Only_ 8 ounces???? 8 ounces is 1/2 lb!
> 
> And no, I haven't been reading this thread....sorry. About the first three pages is all ....and then I came back in at around page 36 or so. So I haven't even seen over 30 pages worth of this thread (and I don't think I missed anything either).




Well dayumm your ole hide Sap here I thought you was taking in all this wealth of info,lolol. Fact is you didn't miss anything but a bunch of jibber jabber and some good ole yaking. Yup the saw has 8 ounces on the 440 its replacing. Hard to beleive 8 ounces makes for 600 plus posts huh,lolol

Second time Sap, how is the Remmington running?? I just got a old 031 running. New saws are fine but I like my oldies the best...


----------



## BlueRidgeMark (Aug 22, 2006)

coveredinsap said:


> So I haven't even seen over 30 pages worth of this thread (and I don't think I missed anything either).




You got THAT right, Sap!  If you skim every other page, it's about the same.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 22, 2006)

BlueRidgeMark said:


> You got THAT right, Sap!  If you skim every other page, it's about the same.



Now Mark you know your clueless, your just a consumer user,,:hmm3grin2orange: 

Hey get this Mark. They are looking at the stump grinder you rented today and Hobbie, the rental guy, goes who in the hell has been grinding concrete. I told him the last man that rented it got it that way, that it was already messed up. Long story short thanks to your calling back about that damn thing its getting all new cutters this week.


----------



## fishhuntcutwood (Aug 22, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> Hey we agree on something - "8 ounces is half a pound"!



Now that's just funny!  

Now back toopcorn:


----------



## Rotax Robert (Aug 23, 2006)

It took 43 pages to figure out that 8 ounces is a half pound ??? Would someone care to elaborate a bit more.

Rotax


----------



## coveredinsap (Aug 23, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Second time Sap, how is the Remmington running?? I just got a old 031 running. New saws are fine but I like my oldies the best...



Sorry, I thought it was a rhetorical question. I've been kinda busy lately...and haven't had a chance to start it up lately either. Almost did earlier today though, but it was so peaceful and quiet out that I thought I'd let it slide and give the neighbors a break.


----------



## Ekka (Aug 23, 2006)

Please answer these questions.

Does it still have the same break band?

And the way the break band sits etc is it still the same as the 44/46?

Is it possible some-one can take the bar/chain off, side covers off and take a pic of the drum and chainbreak gizmos?


----------



## fishhuntcutwood (Aug 23, 2006)

Why are you worried about the brake band Eric? Palm juice?


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 23, 2006)

Rotax Robert said:


> It took 43 pages to figure out that 8 ounces is a half pound ??? Would someone care to elaborate a bit more.
> 
> Rotax




If you INSIST!!


8 ounces (USA) , is also known as :


* Metric*
kilotonne 2.268e-7
tonne 0.0002268
kilonewton (on Earth surface) (kN) 0.002224
centner 0.002268
kilogram (kg) 0.2268
newton (on Earth surface) (N) 2.224
carat 1134
gram (g) 226.8
centigram 22680
milligram (mg) 226800000 
microgram (mcg) 226800000
atomic mass unit (amu) 1.366e+26

*Avoirdupois (U.S.) *
long ton 0.0002232
short ton 0.00025
long hundredweight 0.004464
short hundredweight 0.005
stone 0.03571
pound (lb) 0.5
dram (dr) 128
grain (gr) 3500

*Troy *
pound 0.6076
ounce 7.292
pennyweight 145.8
carat 1106
grain 3500
mite 70000
doite 1680000

* 
Apothecaries *
pound 0.6076
ounce 7.292
dram 58.33
scruple 175
grain 3500

*Japanese *
koku 0.001257
kann 0.06048
kinn 0.378
monnme 60.48

*Chinese Imperial *
dan 0.004536
jin 0.4536
liang 4.536
tael 6.059
qian 45.36
fen 453.6
li 4536
hao 45360
si 453600
hu 4536000


*Thai *
hap (pikul) ** 0.00378
chang (kati) ** 0.189
tamlung ** 3.78
baht (tical) ** 15.12
* 
Hong Kong *
picul (tam) ** 0.00375
catty (kan) ** 0.375
tael (leung) ** 6
mace (tsin) ** 60
candareen (fan) ** 60 
tael troy ** 6.059
mace troy ** 60.59
candareen troy ** 605.9 
* 
Old Russian * 
berkovets 0.001385
pood 0.01385
pound 0.5538
lot 17.72
zolotnik 53.17
dolya 5104
* 
Old French *
There were many local variations; the following are Quebec and Paris definitions 
quintal 0.004633
livre 0.4633

*Old German * 
doppelzentner 0.002268
zentner 0.004536
pfund 0.4536

*Ancient Roman* 
centumpondus 0.006957
meen 0.4174
pondus (libra) 0.6957
ounce 8.348
semiounce 16.7
duella 25.04
sicilicus 33.39
milliaresium 41.74
solid 50.09
denarium 66.78
scruple 200.3

*Ancient Greek * 
talent * 0.008894
mine * 0.5336
tetradram * 13.34
dram * 53.36
diobol * 160.1
obol * 320.2
halk * 2561

*Biblical *
Exact conversion for Biblical units is rarely certain. 
talent * 0.006667
mina * 0.4
shekel * 20
pim * 30
beka * 40
gerah * 400

* The value is approximate. The unit does not have an exact value. 
** The value is approximate. We do not know the exact value of this unit 



ANY MORE QUESTIONS??????


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 23, 2006)

Ekka said:


> Please answer these questions.
> 
> Does it still have the same break band?
> 
> ...




Yes it has a brake band. Different part number, but it's all pretty much the same as the 044/046. If you'd had a couple of beers it would be hard to tell the diff.


----------



## Rotax Robert (Aug 23, 2006)

Thankyou for clearing that up for me, it sure did save a lot of time reading.

Rotax


----------



## Ekka (Aug 23, 2006)

fishhuntcutwood said:


> Why are you worried about the brake band Eric? Palm juice?



You got it. After years of experimentation on what saw is best the 44 has shone thru.

The way the band sits on the 36 is no good, the way the brake assy on a Husky 372 works is major no good.

So if they have changed this then I may be in the chit and need to stock up on old 44's


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 23, 2006)

Ekka said:


> You got it. After years of experimentation on what saw is best the 44 has shone thru.
> 
> The way the band sits on the 36 is no good, the way the brake assy on a Husky 372 works is major no good.
> 
> So if they have changed this then I may be in the chit and need to stock up on old 44's




What's the problem on the 036? The only time I see an issue is if the drum has flared and the crankcase nubs have been ground off... See it on the 044 also.

The 441 has the bottom screw lock like the 440.


----------



## SawTroll (Aug 23, 2006)

coveredinsap said:


> Huh? I've stayed out of this until now, but there you go dragging me into it.
> So if I'm getting this correctly, the newfangled whiz-bang Stihl super duper new improved 441 has arrived...and it has a lower power to weight ratio than the model it replaces, which the Stihl fans are promoting now as a _good thing_????? LOL!!!! And after all that badmouthing of the Husky 455 Rancher for a similar offense????? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!


 Good of you to stay out that long!  

... but the weight offence of the 455 is much larger than the 441 offence.

It is about as red card and penalty vs. just a yellow card in a soccer match.


----------



## Ekka (Aug 23, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> What's the problem on the 036? The only time I see an issue is if the drum has flared and the crankcase nubs have been ground off... See it on the 044 also.
> 
> The 441 has the bottom screw lock like the 440.



The way the end of the band sits on that tiny little lug sucks on the 36.

Bit of palm juice and the lug is gone, no brakes!

The way it is on the 44/46 etc is much better. Even with corrosion it will keep working as long as that screw has got it. Plus that screw is in a good spot and doesnt corrode.


----------



## SawTroll (Aug 23, 2006)

manual said:


> Yea bro, turbo would be marketing. Turbo meaning Fan.
> Partner chainsaw was the first. As far as I know. then Jonsered, Husky started using it with merger with Jonsered. AND NOW STHIL. I love It.
> This is a fine day for Husky fans. To see Sthil stoop so low. RAH RAH RAH


Pretty close, but not quite correct.

Husky was bought up by E-lux in 1978, Jonsereds and Partner in 1979, I believe - all well before Partner invented the _Centrifugal Cleaning System_ (CCS), that became the "Turbo" and "Air Injection" (and later "Super Clean" on Poulan saws).

The first saw with this system was the P7700 in the mid eighties, Jreds first was the 2051 in 1986/87, and Huskys first was the 262xp in 1989/90.


----------



## SawTroll (Aug 23, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> .. I think it was a BLK46, but not sure of the exact model - that's why I was waiting...


There was no BLK46, I believe.

There was the BL, BLK, BLK 57 amd BLK 58.

I don't believe that the design of any of those models had any impact on todays Air Injection etc.


----------



## SawTroll (Aug 23, 2006)

bwalker said:


> .... Its faster,has a wider powercurve/more stump power, better filtration, better antivibe, better on fuel, parts cost less and overall cost is less. ...



After all the treads I have read about the 372xp vs. 440 and 460 (from 2001 until today), I believe that you are right, even though even the 440 has higher max power output, and max torque.

I _believe_ that this (at least partly) is due to the 4-channel engine design of the Husky, vs. the 2-channel of the Stihls, contributing to better accelleration, and a more effective power curve above max power rpms, maybe also max torque rpms.

But what do I really know? :biggrinbounce2:


----------



## SawTroll (Aug 23, 2006)

04ultra said:


> Husqvarna 372X
> Power & Weight Specs
> Engine Size (Displacement)
> 4.3 cubic inch or 71 cc
> ...


Those weights are Madsens "West Coast" versions with wrap handles, double dawgs, high air box on the Husky, and more.

The engine power "measurements" are not correct either.

According to the independent tests by KWF and DLG, the 372xp numbers are 6.4 kg weight and 3.9 kW power output. The MS440 numbers are 6.2 kg/4.0 kW - so the _differences_ are not that far off anyway.



Just Mow said:


> lets end this, the 441 is better than both



Maybe, but it is also heavier than both, and right on the heals of the 575xp.
According to DLG/KWF, that one actually weights _less_ than Husky states.


----------



## SawTroll (Aug 23, 2006)

bwalker said:


> BTW thall i think you will find that when the 441 is weighed by someone other than stihl it will weigh more than a 372.
> The 14.75 figure for the 372 is a ctual weight posted by madsens. Madsens also weighed the 440 and it came out at 14.5. A scant 1/4 lb when set up with a full wrap and large dogs.
> Wanna bet that when Madsens weighs the 441 its going to be heavier than advertised and heavier than the 372?



You are probably right again.....


----------



## SawTroll (Aug 23, 2006)

Sorry for my many posts in a row here, but I have had real trouble catching up, after beeing absent in the week-end. 

:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 23, 2006)

Ekka said:


> The way the end of the band sits on that tiny little lug sucks on the 36.
> 
> Bit of palm juice and the lug is gone, no brakes!
> 
> The way it is on the 44/46 etc is much better. Even with corrosion it will keep working as long as that screw has got it. Plus that screw is in a good spot and doesnt corrode.




I need to find some of that Palm Juice! Could use it to put some old saws out of their misery. 

In the PNW, I rarely see corrosion on the end of the 036/360 band - In salt water use (docks, landings etc), I see the entire crankcase around the band starting to disappear! 

You may be onto something though - the 361 has a screw just like the 440/441.


----------



## SawTroll (Aug 24, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> ... Yup the saw has 8 ounces on the 440 its replacing. Hard to beleive 8 ounces makes for 600 plus posts huh,lolol
> ...


It wouldn't, if not you and some others had been so busy stating that the same (or slightly higher) weight of the 441 and 10% less power, compared top the 460, isn't a consern.

_Of course it is_, and what model the 441 are replacing is totally irrelevant.


----------



## SawTroll (Aug 24, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> Hey we agree on something - "8 ounces is half a pound"


So many posts about 8 ounces, but where did you get the 8 ounces from?

The difference between the 440 and 441 is *more like 12 ounces*, according to availiable info (DLG/KWF on the 440, Stihl only on the 441).


----------



## SawTroll (Aug 24, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> You heard right Fish. Have to go way back several pages. Ben was hammering away and Tree was playing back up. ....


 :sword: What actually happened, was that both Ben and Tree made some very good points, that was massively hammered down with :monkey: bull???? by Thall and others over and over. 

:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 24, 2006)

SawTroll said:


> It wouldn't, if not you and some others had been so busy stating that the same (or slightly higher) weight of the 441 and 10% less power, compared top the 460, isn't a consern.
> 
> _Of course it is_, and what model the 441 are replacing is totally irrelevant.



Make that 658 plus posts,


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 24, 2006)

SawTroll said:


> So many posts about 8 ounces, but where did you get the 8 ounces from?
> 
> The difference between the 440 and 441 is *more like 12 ounces*, according to availiable info (DLG/KWF on the 440, Stihl only on the 441).



Was 8oz and now its 12oz. Next week it will be 16oz, Sawtroll you need to go on a diet fast, you got a bad case of liking the No.2 brand too much,,


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 24, 2006)

SawTroll said:


> :sword: What actually happened, was that both Ben and Tree made some very good points, that was massively hammered down with :monkey: bull???? by Thall and others over and over.
> 
> :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:



Troll you look to quite in pot stirrer here. Seems that No.2 brand you like is causing you to see things,


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 24, 2006)

*Sorry for so many posts*

The red highlight at the bottom of your post's Troll stand out so brighty it obvoius you want replies so you got em. 
Maybe I'll highlight a line that says How's it feel to be No.2!!,LOLOLOL


----------



## SawTroll (Aug 24, 2006)

I have no brand loyalty, and therefore I am able to see things a bit clearer than some others.....

:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 24, 2006)

*Hint Troll*

They want a 1000 posts on this thread so keep talking,hehehehe


----------



## SawTroll (Aug 24, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> The red highlight at the bottom of your post's Troll stand out so brighty it obvoius you want replies so you got em.
> Maybe I'll highlight a line that says How's it feel to be No.2!!,LOLOLOL



I have put it there specially for you, so you may see things a bit clearer!

I will delete it as soon as this tread is dead.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 24, 2006)

SawTroll said:


> I have put it there specially for you, so you may see things a clearer!
> 
> I will delete it as soon as this tread is over.



Awwww gee thats mighty kind of you Troll. Then you won't mind if I put this for you. 

HOW DOES IT FEEL TO BE NO.2 and HOW DOES IT FEEL NOT TO KNOW WHAT NO.1 FEELS LIKE, NOT ONCE,NOT EVER,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 24, 2006)

*See that finger pointing at you Troll*

Shouldn't mess with THE GREATEST,hehehehehehe


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 24, 2006)

SawTroll said:


> I have put it there specially for you, so you may see things a bit clearer!
> 
> I will delete it as soon as this tread is dead.



Durn I missed that, I'm sorry Troll. The thread was dead untill someone fired it up again Troll, who was that,you maybe,hmm. Its ok though the goal is a 1000 posts so your doing great...


----------



## sugarbush (Aug 24, 2006)

wow, I'll never get anything none today, have to stay tuned to this scrap.opcorn:


----------



## coveredinsap (Aug 24, 2006)

SawTroll said:


> It wouldn't, if not you and some others had been so busy stating that the same (or slightly higher) weight of the 441 and 10% less power, compared top the 460, isn't a consern.
> 
> _Of course it is_, and what model the 441 are replacing is totally irrelevant.
> So many posts about 8 ounces, but where did you get the 8 ounces from?
> ...



BWAHHAHAhahahahahahahahahahaha! Couldn't have said it better myself!

The thing is, the new Stihl POS441 could be a boat anchor with barely enough power to pull itself out of bed, and the Stihl fans hereabouts would still be pimping it off as the greatest thing since sliced bread.

You don't listen to a car salesman pimping the newest vehicle, you read consumer reports (or equivalent) for an impartial review. So why should chainsaws be any different. Let's face it, the dealer is only interested in getting them out the door....and ditto for the dealer's employees.


----------



## SawTroll (Aug 24, 2006)

Well, I am off to the woodlot in an hour or so, and won't be back here before Monday.

I just _had to _make some comments before I left.

Hopefully, this tread is dead before I return.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 24, 2006)

SawTroll said:


> I have no brand loyalty, and therefore I am able to see things a bit clearer than some others.....
> 
> :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:



Well then your a huge DISAPPOINTMENT. If you want to sling mud you should have the guts to stand behind something you beleive it instead of just slinging mud for the hell of it. I stand behind my comments about the 441, you should stand for something other than MUDSLINGER but its great for more posts.


----------



## coveredinsap (Aug 24, 2006)

SawTroll said:


> Well, I am off to the woodlot in an hour or so, and won't be back here before Monday.
> 
> I just _had to _make some comments before I left.
> 
> Hopefully, this tread is dead before I return.



Thanks for the comments. And tell the Swedish Bikini Team I'll be over later.


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 24, 2006)

Ok Saw Troll 

It's up to you to prove your statement ...We need to see a picture of both saws on a scale so you can back up what your saying...


----------



## SawTroll (Aug 24, 2006)

Who are the mudslingers;

Those who point out obvoius weaknesses of a new product, or those who try to cover them up, *muddling* the picture??

The 441 hopefully is a better saw than the same generation 575xp, and dirt cheap here in comparison to the 575xp, 372xp and 460.

This is not about whether it is a good saw or not (it obviously is), but about coverup operations by Stihl in general (the weight statements for the old models for 2006 vs 2005), and a bunch of Stihl people here.


----------



## SawTroll (Aug 24, 2006)

04ultra said:


> Ok Saw Troll
> 
> It's up to you to prove your statement ...We need to see a picture of both saws on a scale so you can back up what your saying...


We will have the evidence when the DLG/KWF test reoprts on the 441 are published.


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 24, 2006)

MS 441 STIHL Magnum™
Chain Saw

DISPLACEMENT
70.7 cc (4.3 cu. in.)

ENGINE POWER
4.1 kW (5.5 bhp)

WEIGHT (powerhead only)
6.6 kg (14.6 lbs)

FUEL CAPACITY
725 cc (24.5 oz.)

CHAIN OIL CAPACITY
360 cc (12.2 oz.)

OILOMATIC® CHAIN
3/8" RM2 or 3/8" RSC3

RECOMMENDED
RANGE OF 
GUIDE BARS LENGTHS
40 to 80 cm
(16" to 32")

STIHL recommends #3624 (33 RSC3-84) OILOMATIC® saw chain and 25" 3003-000-4030 Ematic™ guide bar combination. 
_________________________________________________________________ 
MS 460 STIHL Magnum™
Chain Saw

DISPLACEMENT
76.5 cc (4.7 cu. in.)

ENGINE POWER
4.5 kW (6.0 bhp)

WEIGHT (powerhead only)



Flush-Cut 
6.6 kg (14.6 lbs.)

STIHL Arctic™ 
6.8 kg (15.0 lbs.)

Wrap-Handle 
6.9 kg (15.2 lbs.)

FUEL CAPACITY
800 cc (27.1 oz.)

CHAIN OIL CAPACITY
325 cc (11.0 oz.)

OILOMATIC® CHAIN
3/8" RM2 or 3/8" RSC3

GUIDE BARS
AVAILABLE
40 to 80 cm
(16" to 32")
STIHL ROLLOMATIC®


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 24, 2006)

http://www.stihlusa.com/chainsaws/MS460.html


Right of there web site


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 24, 2006)

MS 440 STIHL Magnum™
Chain Saw

DISPLACEMENT
70.7 cc (4.3 cu. in.)

ENGINE POWER
4.0 kW (5.4 bhp)

WEIGHT (powerhead only)



Flush-Cut 
6.3 kg (13.9 lbs.)

Arctic™ 
6.5 kg (14.3 lbs.)

Wrap-Handle 
6.6 kg (14.8 lbs.)

FUEL CAPACITY
780 cc (26.4 oz.)

CHAIN OIL CAPACITY
275 cc (9.3 oz.)

OILOMATIC® CHAIN
3/8" RM2 or 3/8" RSC3

GUIDE BARS
AVAILABLE
40 to 80 cm
(16" to 32")
STIHL ROLLOMATIC®

STIHL recommends #3624 (33 RSC3-72) OILOMATIC® saw chain and 20" 3003-


----------



## coveredinsap (Aug 24, 2006)

From the Stihl website. Let's see...13.9 lbs, which is less than 14lbs. Compared to 14.6 lbs, which is more than 14 1/2 lbs. That looks like more than 1/2 lb (8 oz) to me. .7 of a lb, to be exact....which works out to 11.200197534348048 oz (to be exact).

Read 'em and weep, boys.

---------------------------
MS 441 STIHL Magnum™
Chain Saw

DISPLACEMENT


70.7 cc (4.3 cu. in.)

ENGINE POWER


4.1 kW (5.5 bhp)

*WEIGHT (powerhead only)


6.6 kg (14.6 lbs)*

FUEL CAPACITY


725 cc (24.5 oz.)

CHAIN OIL CAPACITY


360 cc (12.2 oz.)

OILOMATIC® CHAIN


3/8" RM2 or 3/8" RSC3

RECOMMENDED
RANGE OF
GUIDE BARS LENGTHS


40 to 80 cm
(16" to 32")

-----------------------------------

MS 440 STIHL Magnum™
Chain Saw

DISPLACEMENT


70.7 cc (4.3 cu. in.)

ENGINE POWER


4.0 kW (5.4 bhp)

*WEIGHT (powerhead only)



Flush-Cut


6.3 kg (13.9 lbs.)*

Arctic™


6.5 kg (14.3 lbs.)

Wrap-Handle


6.6 kg (14.8 lbs.)

FUEL CAPACITY


780 cc (26.4 oz.)

CHAIN OIL CAPACITY


275 cc (9.3 oz.)

OILOMATIC® CHAIN


3/8" RM2 or 3/8" RSC3

GUIDE BARS
AVAILABLE


40 to 80 cm
(16" to 32")
STIHL ROLLOMATIC®


----------



## SawTroll (Aug 24, 2006)

Ultra, you just (re)presented part of the coverup that I referred to earlier.
Do you believe anything that the manufacturers print about their product?
You are acting a lot like Sap did, before he started improving his act.

Last year the published weight for the 460 was 6.5 kg, and 6.1 for the 440.

For this year, that was changed to 6.6 and 6.3, most likely to make the 441 look a bit better in comparison.

DLG/KWF test reports say 6.5 and 6.2, and I don't think they have changed the 440 and 460 much lately.


----------



## coveredinsap (Aug 24, 2006)

coveredinsap said:


> From the Stihl website. Let's see...13.9 lbs, which is less than 14lbs. Compared to 14.6 lbs, which is more than 14 1/2 lbs. That looks like more than 1/2 lb (8 oz) to me. .7 of a lb, to be exact....which works out to 11.200197534348048 oz (to be exact).
> 
> Read 'em and weep, boys.



Wow! 11.2 oz difference. That's definitely closer to 3/4 lb (as opposed to the aforementioned 1/2 lb)

LOL!


----------



## SawTroll (Aug 24, 2006)

coveredinsap said:


> Thanks for the comments. And tell the Swedish Bikini Team I'll be over later.


I don't think they have any bikinis on, if you go to the right places....


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 24, 2006)

SawTroll said:


> Do you believe anything that the manufacturers print about their product?
> You are acting a lot like Sap did, before he started improving his act.





  BWAHHAHAhahahahahahahahahahaha!


----------



## coveredinsap (Aug 24, 2006)

04ultra said:


> BWAHHAHAhahahahahahahahahahaha!



Yeah, stop acting like a sap.


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 24, 2006)

:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:   

BWAHHAHAhahahahahahahahahahaha!BWAHHAHAhahahahahahahahahahaha!
BWAHHAHAhahahahahahahahahahaha!BWAHHAHAhahahahahahahahahahaha!


----------



## coveredinsap (Aug 24, 2006)

coveredinsap said:


> Wow! 11.2 oz difference. That's definitely closer to 3/4 lb (as opposed to the aforementioned 1/2 lb)
> 
> LOL!



I can hear it now....

"Yeah, but it's a _dry_ heat!....er, weight."

LOL!


----------



## SawTroll (Aug 24, 2006)

04ultra said:


> :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> BWAHHAHAhahahahahahahahahahaha!BWAHHAHAhahahahahahahahahahaha!
> BWAHHAHAhahahahahahahahahahaha!BWAHHAHAhahahahahahahahahahaha!



Very mature posting!


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 24, 2006)

coveredinsap said:


> I can hear it now....
> 
> "Yeah, but it's a _dry_ heat!....er, weight."
> 
> LOL!



Sap sorry I just had to use your 
BWAHHAHAhahahahahahahahahahaha!

So I could sound like you...LOL


----------



## coveredinsap (Aug 24, 2006)

SawTroll said:


> Very mature posting!



Hey, when he's caught with his pants down around his ankles, that's about all he's got left.


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 24, 2006)

SawTroll said:


> Very mature posting!




Yup ...Kinda like your post on another site when I signed up there.LOL


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 24, 2006)

coveredinsap said:


> Hey, when he's caught with his pants down around his ankles, that's about all he's got left.



Sap Im not caught with my pants down I just dont care...


----------



## coveredinsap (Aug 24, 2006)

04ultra said:


> Sap Im not caught with my pants down I just dont care...



Riiiiight. Now that you've been proven wrong you don't care. Sure.


----------



## coveredinsap (Aug 24, 2006)

Anyways, the point being....."Da Prince" is looking more and more like a frog.


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 24, 2006)

coveredinsap said:


> Riiiiight. Now that you've been proven wrong you don't care. Sure.




Never cared from the beginning about the weight of any saw ..If I did I wouldn't have my 2 Huskys...


----------



## belgian (Aug 24, 2006)

Jeez, the level of this thread has really gone down the tubes.

If you care about the weight, forget the saw and play with something else..
If you don't, well... then you don't.:angry2:


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 24, 2006)

I go to bed and hey, 3 more pages of talkin' trash! I may as well jump in...


I can count on less than one hand the number of people that think the weight it a problem, and NONE of them have ever touched the saw in question . Go *paper tigers*! you'll make a 1000 yet!

Hey Sap, be carefully when (if) you ever pick up a 441... After your Remington or Macs, you might toss it high! Just kidding... After using my 066, the 361 feels like a feather.

Troll: To a guy who sees a glass a half full, life is full of disapointment... get over it. Do you use cheap bars just because they are lighter?


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 24, 2006)

coveredinsap said:


> Anyways, the point being....."Da Prince" is looking more and more like a frog.




I can't resist - just bed over kiss it.. you may be surprised


----------



## coveredinsap (Aug 24, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> I go to bed and hey, 3 more pages of talkin' trash! I may as well jump in...
> 
> 
> I can count on less than one hand the number of people that think the weight it a problem, and NONE of them have ever touched the saw in question . Go *paper tigers*! you'll make a 1000 yet!
> ...



After using the Macs, what's a pound or so between friends, eh?


----------



## manual (Aug 24, 2006)

coveredinsap said:


> BWAHHAHAhahahahahahahahahahaha! Couldn't have said it better myself!
> 
> The thing is, the new Stihl POS441 could be a boat anchor with barely enough power to pull itself out of bed, and the Stihl fans hereabouts would still be pimping it off as the greatest thing since sliced bread.
> 
> You don't listen to a car salesman pimping the newest vehicle, you read consumer reports (or equivalent) for an impartial review. So why should chainsaws be any different. Let's face it, the dealer is only interested in getting them out the door....and ditto for the dealer's employees.


 

Yea Sap I don't even thing it will slice bread. You can always use it to make Tortillas.
I have seen pictures of poeple putting there saws in bed. I guess if you pay way to much for a saw you should get something out of it. (Bad pictures entering my mind)
Even Kirby vacuum saleman compare the product with other vacuums. 
Maybe there are not afaid too. Maybe they even tried other products.
Also my Dog puts out a good Turd. But I'm not going to touch it.
HA kakakakakaka.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 24, 2006)

*701 Posts And 12,000 Plus Views*

lololol, this thread is going to make a thousand. Keep talking boys, this one will make the record book,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 24, 2006)

SawTroll said:


> We will have the evidence when the DLG/KWF test reoprts on the 441 are published.



Troll I have evidence from your posts that you should just keep your nitegown on and do the dishes while the men go cut the wood. I think a supper plate weighs around 4-5 ounces so you should be able to handle those,,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 24, 2006)

SawTroll said:


> Who are the mudslingers;
> 
> Those who point out obvoius weaknesses of a new product, or those who try to cover them up, *muddling* the picture??
> 
> ...



Oh yes its a coverup, shhhhhhhhhhhh please don't tell anyone. Pssssssssssst Troll, I didn't really buy the saw or use it, I was afraid to, way too heavy a saw for me.(hehe) So I made up a coverup, durn Troll you should be a detective, MAXWELL SMART,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 24, 2006)

shhhhhhhhhhhh Treeco's posting cant wait to read this...LOL


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 24, 2006)

manual said:


> Yea Sap I don't even thing it will slice bread. You can always use it to make Tortillas.
> I have seen pictures of poeple putting there saws in bed. I guess if you pay way to much for a saw you should get something out of it. (Bad pictures entering my mind)
> Even Kirby vacuum saleman compare the product with other vacuums.
> Maybe there are not afaid too. Maybe they even tried other products.
> ...



So true Manual, that saw wouldn't cut squat. It just sits around on the porch and looks pretty. It has learned to talk though, it keeps asking me if it should go on a diet. I said naaaaaaaaa keep eating up those J'reds, just pass them later in the day,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 24, 2006)

THALL it's all in the numbers ...1000


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 24, 2006)

04ultra said:


> THALL it's all in the numbers ...1000



Yup, you got it. They want it to go to a 1000 so I say bring it on big boys, its all in good fun. Now that Sap has joined in there will be plenty of posting now, gotta love that ole Sap. I'll be answering his post later on, he hasn't slipped by the sting of the bee or the float of the butterfly,lol


----------



## manual (Aug 24, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> do the dishes while the men go cut the wood. ,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:



Your right Thall.
The dishes can wait. I'm going to cut some wood. Huh Huh I mean.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 24, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> Stihl has pushed increased power to weight ration as a positive for at least the past 20 years. I remember Stihl advertisements of the 036 when it came out as the most hp per pound in their whole line up.
> 
> As an owner and user of 12 Stihl saws it's sad the see Stihl taking a step backwards with their new EPA 441.
> 
> ...



Tree I'm just sure you was going to drive all the way to Virginia to buy a saw, sureeeeeeee. The lack of respect you refer to is how you got to where you are today. This thread is nothing new for you. You have been pulling the same non-sense in many other threads over the past months. You take a notion toward someone and you just keep going and going and going. My respect for YOU, just you and no one else equals YOUR respect for me, NONE, there is no lack of to none. The differance is I can handle it and you obviously can't. 

I find it very odd as well you use the word Trust and you know exactly what I mean ole buddy.


----------



## manual (Aug 24, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> So true Manual, that saw wouldn't cut squat. It just sits around on the porch and looks pretty. It has learned to talk though, it keeps asking me if it should go on a diet. I said naaaaaaaaa keep eating up those J'reds, just pass them later in the day,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:



Atleast you taught your saw right

IF YOU CAN'T RUN WITH THE DOGS STAY ON THE PORCH.


Sounds like the only thing your saw can pass is GAS.

So how is your "Two Toned Husky" doing? The white is not smeering off yet is it. You keep that saw out of the rain now it might be water colors. LoL


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 24, 2006)

manual said:


> Your right Thall.
> The dishes can wait. I'm going to cut some wood. Huh Huh I mean.



Thats right Manual, heck with all the jibber jabber, lets go cut some wood. Bring your J'Red and I'll bring the 441 and I'll betcha the trees will never know the differance or say one word,hehe. (come on 1000, I'm running out of jibber jabber,lolololol)


----------



## LarryTheCableGuy (Aug 24, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> Avoid the rude hawking salesman. Profit is his motive and he is not to be trusted.


Sheesh THALL, whatcha doing talking sweet about that heavy saw. Do you have any idea what the ramifications of that could be? You could cause some dummy to actually go to his local STIHL dealer and see one with his own two eyes. Next thing ya know the poor feller (pun intended) is picking it up with his own two hands...and before you know it he is making up his own mind!

Another thing or two. If he went to his local HUSQVARNA dealer (or any other brand for that matter), well that bugger is motivated by profit also! Imagine that!

If the poor sap (no, not THAT sap) is going to use the saw in his business, well then he must be motivated by profit also! OMG, the sky is falling! The profits are coming, the PROFITS are coming!


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 24, 2006)

manual said:


> Atleast you taught your saw right
> 
> IF YOU CAN'T RUN WITH THE DOGS STAY ON THE PORCH.
> 
> ...



Well the other day it was passing a J'red, lost 8 ounces near as I could tell,hehe. Don't you fret now one day your saw will be pretty as mine, well I just told ya that to make you think so,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 24, 2006)

LarryTheCableGuy said:


> Sheesh THALL, whatcha doing talking sweet about that heavy saw. Do you have any idea what the ramifications of that could be? You could cause some dummy to actually go to his local STIHL dealer and see one with his own two eyes. Next thing ya know the poor feller (pun intended) is picking it up with his own two hands...and before you know it he is making up his own mind!
> 
> Another thing or two. If he went to his local HUSQVARNA dealer (or any other brand for that matter), well that bugger is motivated by profit also! Imagine that!
> 
> If the poor sap (no, not THAT sap) is going to use the saw in his business, well then he must be motivated by profit also! OMG, the sky is falling! The profits are coming, the PROFITS are coming!



I was kinda wondering the exact same thing Larry. Makes ya wonder doesn't it. Oh well its no biggie, all in fun I reckon, least on my end. As I've said I bought it, I used it, I like it and thats my story and I'm sticking to it. They can preach till the well goes dry and nothing will change. Seems they would see that by now. However great for a 1000 post thread, thats what they want then so be it...


----------



## Urbicide (Aug 24, 2006)

*Preachin*



THALL10326 said:


> They can preach till the well goes dry and nothing will change. Seems they would see that by now....


"Thall shall not Stihl." 
Just kiddin Thall.


----------



## BlueRidgeMark (Aug 24, 2006)

You guys Sthil yapping about that saw? C'mon over to my place - I'll give you some work to do. You ALL have too much time on your hands!





Besides, the Jred is prettier.


----------



## stckciv (Aug 24, 2006)

So are we just posting to be posting?


Ill chime in then - I have a saw that I cant find any info on, maybe you guys can help. Its a ring saw, the sticker on it says Ring Saw Inc.

I'll try to get pictures later.


----------



## coveredinsap (Aug 24, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Oh yes its a coverup, shhhhhhhhhhhh please don't tell anyone. Pssssssssssst Troll, I didn't really buy the saw or use it, I was afraid to, way too heavy a saw for me.(hehe) So I made up a coverup, durn Troll you should be a detective, MAXWELL SMART,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:



Ummm, actually, we all know where your saw is going to end up....on that shelf above your bed along with its kin.

And the only reason the saw's weight would be an issue for you is to calculate how much that shelf will hold before it pulls loose from the wall. HAhahahahahahahaha!!!!!


----------



## Justsaws (Aug 24, 2006)

Wow. What a thread.


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 24, 2006)

Justsaws said:


> Wow. What a thread.




:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 24, 2006)

coveredinsap said:


> Ummm, actually, we all know where your saw is going to end up....on that shelf above your bed along with its kin.
> 
> And the only reason the saw's weight would be an issue for you is to calculate how much that shelf will hold before it pulls loose from the wall. HAhahahahahahahaha!!!!!



hehe, Sap, your almost right. If that shelf falls off I'll be sure to have you come hang it back up for me, you are the carpenter of this thread , correct?, see Sap just like good ole times huh,hehhe, only a few 100 more to go Sap and we'll reach the magic 1000...


----------



## bump_r (Aug 24, 2006)

OK, not to beat the Stihl drums or pound my chest, but got-dang, guys. 
What is the power-to-weight ratio of the 441? 
How does it compare to other saws (Stihl and others) in it's class?
Is it within range of what would be "typical"?
If it is grossly out of range, bad on Stihl. 
If within range, or close enough to justify it's enhanced vibration characteristics, cleaner exhaust gas emissions, fuel efficiency, or any combination of these and other purported strong suits of the machine, "yay Stihl".

No new model of anything produces an improvement in every friggin' category over it's predecessor. Damm few, anyway. Trade-offs are made all the time. If Stihl felt the need to market a saw with reduced power-to-weight in order to get other features to market, that's their decision. Not everyone will appreciate or approve the decision, and that's fine. But to dump on a company (that clearly knows the North American and worldwide chain saw market) just because one does not agree that a weight penalty _of under a pound _ is acceptable is hogwash. This is a pro machine. I would think the typical consumer of this machine would take offense to the notion that 11.whatever ounces of weight would mean a rat's azz. I'm no Charles Atlas, but I'd think I could take such a weight penalty in stride if it meant I'd still have feeling in my fingertips in 10 years or my wrists and elbows would make it through the workweek and into the weekend a bit more easily. We all want a saw that is light, powerful, durable, quiet, smooth, and pretty. Guess what? You can't have it all - this world is made up of comprimises - give and take. If Stihl missed the mark on this one and the target market rejects the thing, so be it. I just don't think the disproportate increase in weight versus power output as big a deal as some here would have us believe.

And, it's their first offering of this new generation. Sure would suck butt if there were no improvements to be had in the next few years...

But, yeah, if Stihl DID alter their spec sheet of the '05 versus '06 products to juke and jive us all in a marketing smokescreen - that IS crap. You would think that the Stihl snoops that frequent this site would know that there are enough enthusiasts here that they get busted bigtime for wuch shennanigans.

Wait a minute, I never have seen, touched, or ran a 441 so my thoughts are irrelevant - please disregard this post. As Roseann Roseanna Danna would say: "NEEEVERMIIINNNNND".

And now, back to our regularly scheduled programming.


----------



## BlueRidgeMark (Aug 24, 2006)

Oh, shut up, bump_r! 



You make too much sense!




:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 24, 2006)

*Good Post Bump*

Sounded fair to me but Bump you have to understand this isn't about fairness of the saw. Its Mudslinging at it best. They toss it, we throw it back. Kinda like pitching baseball. I wonder if I tossed them the saw if they would throw it back. Wait a minute I'm sorry, they couldn't handle the weight, durn how did I forget that,,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 24, 2006)

BlueRidgeMark said:


> Oh, shut up, bump_r!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thats right Mark, striaghten him out. How dare him make a good post in this thread that makes sense, :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 24, 2006)

575XP 

(4.48 cu.inch / 73.5) 5.4 hp / 4.0 kW // 14.9 lbs / 6.8 kg 

_________________________________________________________

MS 441 


(4.3 cu. in. / 70.7 ) 5.5 bhp / 4.1 kW // 14.6 lbs /6.6 kg


----------



## sugarbush (Aug 24, 2006)

I might as well shoot my mouth off. If 3/4 of a # is a big deal, look at the perty 7300 dolmar 13.6# and 73cc. did i mention it was perty?:jester:


----------



## CaseyForrest (Aug 24, 2006)

Its amazing how some folks get in an uproar over 11.2 ounces when its a Stihl........The 575 gained weight over the 372, didnt it????

Who was it that blamed it on Stihl for making epa approved saws....like they have a choice....lemme look it up.


----------



## Rspike (Aug 24, 2006)

What is the list "Retail" price of the two listed saws ?


04ultra said:


> 575XP
> 
> (4.48 cu.inch / 73.5) 5.4 hp / 4.0 kW // 14.9 lbs / 6.8 kg
> 
> ...


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 24, 2006)

CaseyForrest said:


> Its amazing how some folks get in an uproar over 11.2 ounces when its a Stihl........The 575 gained weight over the 372, didnt it????
> 
> Who was it that blamed it on Stihl for making epa approved saws....like they have a choice....lemme look it up.



Yup lots of people bashed the 361 when it came out to but looky it sells and works real nice....


----------



## CaseyForrest (Aug 24, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> Stihl has pushed increased power to weight ration as a positive for at least the past 20 years. I remember Stihl advertisements of the 036 when it came out as the most hp per pound in their whole line up.
> 
> As an owner and user of 12 Stihl saws it's sad the see Stihl taking a step backwards with their new EPA 441.
> 
> ...



Here it is, ......You really think Stihl is the only company restricted by the EPA??? Stihl is not the only saw company to increase weight on one saw replacing another.

You suggest avoiding EPA saws, then does that go for ANY EPA approved saw? Thats more than just Stihl. How do you expect to get feedback from the end user when you tell them not to buy it???

You might better tuck your tail now, while you still have one.


----------



## 166 (Aug 24, 2006)

04ultra said:


> 575XP
> 
> (4.48 cu.inch / 73.5) 5.4 hp / 4.0 kW // 14.9 lbs / 6.8 kg
> 
> ...



575XP






(4.48 cu.inch / 73.5) 5.4 hp / 4.0 kW // 14.9 lbs / 6.8 kg 

_________________________________________________________

MS 441





(4.3 cu. in. / 70.7 ) 5.5 bhp / 4.1 kW // 14.6 lbs /6.6 kg

_________________________________________________________

PS-7300





(4.5 cu. in. / 73.0) 5.7 bHP / 4.2kW // 13.8 lbs / 6.3 kg

_________________________________________________________

PS-7900





(4.8 cu. in. / 79.0) 6.3 bHP / 4.5kW // 13.8 lbs / 6.3 kg

Thought i'd throw in the Dolmar 7300 & 7900 specs to show some more power to weight ratio's!

Steve


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 24, 2006)

sugarbush said:


> I might as well shoot my mouth off. If 3/4 of a # is a big deal, look at the perty 7300 dolmar 13.6# and 73cc. did i mention it was perty?:jester:



Heck yeah Sugar join the party. In this thread 3/4 of a pound has baffeled even the worlds greatest minds. Its a huge deal Sugar, didn't you know that. I'll forgive ya though if ya promise to send me down a few of those 5 and 3/4
pound mators you been growing. deal? Remeber Sugar, not 5, they have to be 5 and 3/4, I like my mators like my saws, sorta beefy,lol..


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 24, 2006)

You for got prices on all of them..


----------



## CaseyForrest (Aug 24, 2006)

Want to talk about weight. Took down a Mulberry last weekend. Sold my 260 and 460, 361 wasnt here yet, all I had left was the 660. Threw a 20" bar on her and let her rip.

More saw then needed, yep. But no problem if you can handle the weight all day.


----------



## Rspike (Aug 24, 2006)

Madsen's Prices
Husky 575XPW Pricing 

Combination List price Madsen's Price 
Power Head Only $699.95 $629.00 
With 24 inch bar and chain $809.95 $682.00 
With 28 inch bar and chain $819.95 $690.00 
With 32 inch bar and chain $829.95 $698.00 



Rspike said:


> What is the list "Retail" price of the two listed saws ?


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 24, 2006)

Rspike said:


> What is the list "Retail" price of the two listed saws ?



Good question Spike, I haven't a clue about the Husky. The 441 retails for 749.95 with 20 inch bar and chain. You will see however I will not knock that Husky 575 regardless of its weight or power output. You won't hear me say stay away from it because its new or that its heavy and on and on and on. I say if you pick it up and you like it then buy it, fairly simple to me. I won't use its numbers to justify anything on the 441 either. Its not the saws that are crowing nor the buyers, strange huh..


----------



## sugarbush (Aug 24, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Heck yeah Sugar join the party. In this thread 3/4 of a pound has baffeled even the worlds greatest minds. Its a huge deal Sugar, didn't you know that. I'll forgive ya though if ya promise to send me down a few of those 5 and 3/4
> pound mators you been growing. deal? Remeber Sugar, not 5, they have to be 5 and 3/4, I like my mators like my saws, sorta beefy,lol..


Thall, that's a deal. Ya i doubt stihl step'd backward's with that saw. I'm sure it was put through some real grueling test. don't think they'd take a chance on laying an egg for the replacement for one of there most popular saw's.


----------



## CaseyForrest (Aug 24, 2006)

I can get a 441 here for $749 with a 20". Wow, look at that, more power for less money.

And less weight.

EDIT: read it wrong, sorry!!!! Whats madsens charge for shipping??


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 24, 2006)

CaseyForrest said:


> Want to talk about weight. Took down a Mulberry last weekend. Sold my 260 and 460, 361 wasnt here yet, all I had left was the 660. Threw a 20" bar on her and let her rip.
> 
> More saw then needed, yep. But no problem if you can handle the weight all day.



Now Cassey by Joe that isn't fair. 3/4 of a pound wouldn't bother a big feller like you, its those utter little fellers that can't handle it. I called Stihl about it and they said tellem to buy a handsaw then,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## CaseyForrest (Aug 24, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Now Cassey by Joe that isn't fair. 3/4 of a pound wouldn't bother a big feller like you, its those utter little fellers that can't handle it. I called Stihl about it and they said tellem to buy a handsaw then,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:



LOL...Handsaws are under-rated.


----------



## Rspike (Aug 24, 2006)

Compared to what saw ? Madsen's Prices
Husky 575XPW Pricing for the 24" ,28" & 32" bars are all under $700. no price list for a 20" but the 575Xp is only $629. power head only. 



CaseyForrest said:


> I can get a 441 here for $749 with a 20". Wow, look at that, more power for less money.
> 
> And less weight.


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 24, 2006)

Rspike said:


> Madsen's Prices
> Husky 575XPW Pricing
> 
> Combination List price Madsen's Price
> ...




Yup like spike said madsons price not manufactures list..


----------



## CaseyForrest (Aug 24, 2006)

Rspike said:


> Compared to what saw ? Madsen's Prices
> Husky 575XPW Pricing for the 24" ,28" & 32" bars are all under $700. no price list for a 20" but the 575Xp is only $629. power head only.



Yeah, sorry, I read it wrong, I edited my post.

Price seems right there though, considering the 575 is heavier and less powerfull then the 441.

Im with Thall, I do have all stihl, but only because they feel better to me. It has nothing to do with brand loyalty. Ive had good experiences with Husky just like I have Stihl.


----------



## CaseyForrest (Aug 24, 2006)

Based on what my dealer usually charges me for just a powerhead, Im sure I could get out for $675 or so. If bought online, or out of state, there is shipping too. SO the prices are about the same.


----------



## Rspike (Aug 24, 2006)

CaseyForrest said:


> Based on what my dealer usually charges me for just a powerhead, Im sure I could get out for $675 or so. If bought online, or out of state, there is shipping too. SO the prices are about the same.


 Dont local TAX make up for shipping cost most of the time? You do have to pay tax dont you ?


----------



## 166 (Aug 24, 2006)

PS-7300 PHO List $609.95
PS-7900 PHO List $689.95


----------



## Rspike (Aug 24, 2006)

I think we would need to come up with some guide lines for price. Sence Stihl only sells local per dealer then that would be there best price. Do you figure Tax no tax VS shipping cost ect .....


----------



## Rspike (Aug 24, 2006)

Damn ...... Would you GO AWAY with your hight HP - low weight and good price chainsaws ..........Its making the Husqvarnas and Stihls look bad . 


166 said:


> PS-7300 PHO List $609.95
> PS-7900 PHO List $689.95


----------



## 166 (Aug 24, 2006)

Rspike said:


> Damn ...... Would you GO AWAY with your hight HP - low weight and good price chainsaws ..........Its making the Husqvarnas and Stihls look bad .



Anybody have List price on the 441 PHO & 575 PHO?


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 24, 2006)

Rspike said:



> Damn ...... Would you GO AWAY with your hight HP - low weight and good price chainsaws ..........Its making the Husqvarnas and Stihls look bad .




Yup those Dolmars keep showing up ..But they just cant get past the wall that Husky and Stihl built.. 

If you quote madsen's price on Huskys you need to quote there prices on Stihl .. they do sell both.. 

Big volume dealers do have better prices..


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 24, 2006)

sugarbush said:


> Thall, that's a deal. Ya i doubt stihl step'd backward's with that saw. I'm sure it was put through some real grueling test. don't think they'd take a chance on laying an egg for the replacement for one of there most popular saw's.



Cool beans Sugar. Send them mators on ole feller. As for the saw all I can tell ya is I like it. It is what it is. By the way Sugar I got me a Dolmar shirt in the mail today from a Dolmar dealer up in NEW York. I got to send him something in return. You think he would wear a nice Stihl cap, or would he rather have a Stihl pocket knife?


----------



## stckciv (Aug 24, 2006)

575XP 18" bar $784.95

They are not showing a PHO price.


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 24, 2006)

Now Im sure my 13 saw a year Dolmar dealer could beat the pants off of The Cutting Edge on there prices..LOL .. Just kidding Steve and Scott


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 24, 2006)

Rspike said:


> I think we would need to come up with some guide lines for price. Sence Stihl only sells local per dealer then that would be there best price. Do you figure Tax no tax VS shipping cost ect .....



Not so Spike. The dealer themselves have a 6 price tier guildeline. More they buy the better cost price they get. As for at the dealer its the same deal for the customer. Someone comes in wanting 3 saws verses someone just buying one the 3 saw person is will be getting a better price. As for the 749.95 on the 441, that suggested retail price. We can sell it for any amount we want.


----------



## Rspike (Aug 24, 2006)

I did find "Wise sales" has : Husqvarna 575xp Chainsaw husky chain saw
Free Shipping! 20" Bar & 3 chains,brand new 2 yr warr for everyday price of only $649.00 ...........Madsen didnt show Stihl Prices . Didnt even show the MS441


----------



## CaseyForrest (Aug 24, 2006)

Rspike said:


> Dont local TAX make up for shipping cost most of the time? You do have to pay tax dont you ?



$675 would be OTD.


----------



## sugarbush (Aug 24, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Cool beans Sugar. Send them mators on ole feller. As for the saw all I can tell ya is I like it. It is what it is. By the way Sugar I got me a Dolmar shirt in the mail today from a Dolmar dealer up in NEW York. I got to send him something in return. You think he would wear a nice Stihl cap, or would he rather have a Stihl pocket knife?


Send him that heavy 441 before you hurt yourself with it. and look at all the trouble it's caused ! Better yet send it to me.


----------



## CaseyForrest (Aug 24, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> I suggest avoiding all EPA saws while you can. Soon you won't have the choice but now you still do. I believe there will be problems with the 441 running lean and suffering from heat damage.
> 
> The Stihl 460 is clearly a better choice right now than the 441. Plus the 460 has a good track record while the 441 is an unknown.
> 
> Just like the 360 was dropped from the product line the 440 and the 460 will likely soon follow and we will not have a choice.



Maybe thats why the 441 is heavier. Beefier case to help dissapate heat. Im sure, too, the engineers have done their testing, and built accordingly. Dont forget the advances in oils in the last 30 years. Im only 32, and I can remember running 16:1 in a poulan my grandfather had.

To avoid the inevitable seems silly. Take it as a challenge. I do agree, why buy the 441 when the 460 weighs the same with more power? But Thall says the 441 is smoother. Its about give and take....Im sure the 461 will weigh more than the 460, but will probably be smoother, and a better design.


----------



## CaseyForrest (Aug 24, 2006)

*HEY THALL*

Is there a .325 sprocket for the 361?


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 24, 2006)

I will be impossible to compare that close because every dealer can set his price..If you walk into madsens you could compare there prices out the door on both.. only way to do it...But then there will always be them Dolmars trying to get in the door..


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 24, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> I suggest avoiding all EPA saws while you can. Soon you won't have the choice but now you still do. I believe there will be problems with the 441 running lean and suffering from heat damage.
> 
> The Stihl 460 is clearly a better choice right now than the 441. Plus the 460 has a good track record while the 441 is an unknown.
> 
> Just like the 360 was dropped from the product line the 440 and the 460 will likely soon follow and we will not have a choice.



Well I'll be durn thats a fairly good post, I must admit. I give credit where credit it due, something you should try too Tree. 

If dropping the 360 for the 361 is a indication of the future then the future looks bright because the 361 is a hands down improvement. As for the rest of your comments there its all assuimg and its ok to assume Tree. Run the 440 beside the 441 and assume the facts as well and we'll have nothing to argue about, the 441 is clearly much smoother and faster. It warrants its few ounces in pure comfort. The 460 may well be the faster saw but in the hand the vibration of the 460 is no longer there. Is smoother worth a split second in speed, thats a choice. Glad your starting to realize soon, whether you like it or not the choices will no longer be there. You can thank Uncle Sam(EPA) for that, not your saw maker....Good post Tree, I'll quit nipping at your heals for awhile. Who knows we may have to have a group hug....


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 24, 2006)

sugarbush said:


> Send him that heavy 441 before you hurt yourself with it. and look at all the trouble it's caused ! Better yet send it to me.



LOLOLOLOLOL, good idea Sugar. Hell Sugar I'm gonna make him mad instead, I'm just gonna send that saw to you, hows that? Don't send it back because I would just have too much fun with it again,lolol


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 24, 2006)

166 said:


> Anybody have List price on the 441 PHO & 575 PHO?



Scott there really is no list price on just a Stihl powerhead. They will not sell just the power head to the dealer, it comes as a complete chainsaw. You have to deduct the price of bar and chain to get the powerhead cost. I'll check that tomorrow and see what the powerhead cost comes out to..


----------



## CaseyForrest (Aug 24, 2006)

Hey Thall!!!!


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 24, 2006)

CaseyForrest said:


> Hey Thall!!!!



He will be back in a 1/2 hour


----------



## CaseyForrest (Aug 24, 2006)

Allright. I got my 361, and an 8 tooth rim I had lying around for my 460 fit it. I got to thinking, I have a .325 bar and two .325 chains. is there a .325 rim that will fit the 361?


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 24, 2006)

CaseyForrest said:


> Allright. I got my 361, and an 8 tooth rim I had lying around for my 460 fit it. I got to thinking, I have a .325 bar and two .325 chains. is there a .325 rim that will fit the 361?



I've never switched either one over to .325 but I'm sure you can. In fact I know you can. Man down at Mid-Atlantic Stihl told me if you really want to see a 460 fly through some wood switch it to .325 and hold on. I don't know the rim number or if you may have to change the sprocket itself. Ole Lake will know and will surely be on in abit.


----------



## CaseyForrest (Aug 24, 2006)

You dont know if the clutch drum for the 260 and the 361 take the same spline size?


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 24, 2006)

CaseyForrest said:


> You dont know if the clutch drum for the 260 and the 361 take the same spline size?



Hangs on a minute, I'll fire up the Media Cat and give you the right numbers. Which saw are you wanting to switch to .325, the 460 or the 361 or both?


----------



## CaseyForrest (Aug 24, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Hangs on a minute, I'll fire up the Media Cat and give you the right numbers. Which saw are you wanting to switch to .325, the 460 or the 361 or both?



The 361, only because I have the bar and chains in .325 already.

I got $708 for my 460 on Ebay!!!


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 24, 2006)

CaseyForrest said:


> The 361, only because I have the bar and chains in .325 already.
> 
> I got $708 for my 460 on Ebay!!!



Cool, those 460's do hold their value well. Now aren't you a lucky dog. Seems you can switch both the 361 and 460 using the sprocket you have on them. All you need is the rim. They both will use the same rim, yup, sure do. Seems you can switch this rim back and forth on either saw, yup. I got the number right here, sure do. I bet you'd almost pay me for looking it up wouldn't ya,lolololol. Yup I thought so. That in mind I'll make sure I don't lose the part number you need,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: 


(0000-642-1239)(9tooth .325 rim)


----------



## CaseyForrest (Aug 24, 2006)

Ok, tell ya what..Ill get out my rubber check book. Who do I make it out to and whats your address?

All kidding aside, thanks, You just saved me from buying a new tip for a bar and getting new chains and wasting the two new chains I already have!!.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 24, 2006)

CaseyForrest said:


> Ok, tell ya what..Ill get out my rubber check book. Who do I make it out to and whats your address?
> 
> All kidding aside, thanks, You just saved me from buying a new tip for a bar and getting new chains and wasting the two new chains I already have!!.



hahahaha, it do seem you can play around with both those saws, switching them to .325 for a whopping price of, are you sitting down, $6.35. I just looked on E-sales and thats what that rim lists for. If you try it on the 460 let me know how it does. Man told me it will make the 460 roll so keep me posted....


----------



## CaseyForrest (Aug 24, 2006)

I dont have the 460 anymore.....

But check this out...If it makes the 460 rip, imagine what itll do on the 660!!! Should work on that one too as I was always swapping the 8 tooth between the 460 and 660.


----------



## coveredinsap (Aug 24, 2006)

A 361 running .325 .050 sounds like an accident waiting to happen. Given enough time and the right (wrong) conditions, I see that chain becomming a whirling dervish.

But enough of that....how about that 3/4 lb difference between the older lighter 440 and the heavy boat anchor 441, eh? LOL!


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 24, 2006)

coveredinsap said:


> A 361 running .325 .050 sounds like an accident waiting to happen. Given enough time and the right (wrong) conditions, I see that chain becomming a whirling dervish.
> 
> But enough of that....how about that 3/4 lb difference between the older lighter 440 and the heavy boat anchor 441, eh? LOL!



Sap I'll bet you think Casey should run .404 ...Casey I'll send you some to help out..


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 24, 2006)

*Oh Cassey*

I just check the 660 listing. They don't list a .325 rim for that monster. So don't be alarmed if that rim doesn't fit on that saw. You can still play with the 361. Lake may know a rim that will work...


----------



## CaseyForrest (Aug 24, 2006)

coveredinsap said:


> A 361 running .325 .050 sounds like an accident waiting to happen. Given enough time and the right (wrong) conditions, I see that chain becomming a whirling dervish.
> 
> But enough of that....how about that 3/4 lb difference between the older lighter 440 and the heavy boat anchor 441, eh? LOL!



How do you figure?

Whats the difference in running .325 on a 4.4hp saw and running 3/8 on an almost 8 hp saw? Both being 50 gauge.


----------



## CaseyForrest (Aug 24, 2006)

04ultra said:


> Sap I'll bet you think Casey should run .404 ...Casey I'll send you some to help out..



I was thinking the same thing. He seems to run 404 on everything. 

TIP: Bigger is not always better.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 24, 2006)

coveredinsap said:


> A 361 running .325 .050 sounds like an accident waiting to happen. Given enough time and the right (wrong) conditions, I see that chain becomming a whirling dervish.
> 
> But enough of that....how about that 3/4 lb difference between the older lighter 440 and the heavy boat anchor 441, eh? LOL!



LOLOLOL, its terrible Sap. Hell I had to go out and buy some weights and a bench and start lifting so I could handle that 3/4lb. Had I know it weighed that much more I would have started lifting weights before I bought it. My fault though. I picked it up and didn't notice it. I'll send Stihl the bill for my weight set,LOL


----------



## CaseyForrest (Aug 24, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> I just check the 660 listing. They don't list a .325 rim for that monster. So don't be alarmed if that rim doesn't fit on that saw. You can still play with the 361. Lake may know a rim that will work...



Im sure they dont!!! I was getting at, however, If the 8 tooth I have, fits the 460 and 660. And I can get a .325 to fit the clutch bell that the 3/8 fits, then the .325 should fit the 660 as well. You lost yet???


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 24, 2006)

CaseyForrest said:


> I was thinking the same thing. He seems to run 404 on everything.
> 
> TIP: Bigger is not always better.



Is too, 3/4 lb extra of is,lolololol. I got .404 on my 051 and that thing just yanks wood out the log. Not fast but steady. That ole saw weighs a ton but I use it and smile. Now if the ole timers could run that heavy thing and be happy there is no reason to complain about ANY new saw...


----------



## coveredinsap (Aug 24, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> LOLOLOL, its terrible Sap. Hell I had to go out and buy some weights and a bench and start lifting so I could handle that 3/4lb. Had I know it weighed that much more I would have started lifting weights before I bought it. My fault though. I picked it up and didn't notice it. I'll send Stihl the bill for my weight set,LOL



Don't worry Thall, you'll be OK....you only have to lift that 441 once to get it up on that shelf of yours.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 24, 2006)

CaseyForrest said:


> Im sure they dont!!! I was getting at, however, If the 8 tooth I have, fits the 460 and 660. And I can get a .325 to fit the clutch bell that the 3/8 fits, then the .325 should fit the 660 as well. You lost yet???



   ,okkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk


----------



## coveredinsap (Aug 24, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Is too, 3/4 lb extra of is,lolololol. I got .404 on my 051 and that thing just yanks wood out the log. Not fast but steady. That ole saw weighs a ton but I use it and smile. Now if the ole timers could run that heavy thing and be happy there is no reason to complain about ANY new saw...



Yup, .404 .063 is funny to watch....it may not be fast, but it sure shovels some wood. Makes you smile just watching it work. Hold on tight!


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 24, 2006)

coveredinsap said:


> Don't worry Thall, you'll be OK....you only have to lift that 441 once to get it up on that shelf of yours.



So true Sap, so true. Hey wait a minute, what,lololol. I use my fleet every now and then. I made 300.00 Sunday using that boat anchor, ooooooops, I mean that super smooth baby. Well not quite, the tree wasn't much so I set the dead weight, ooooooooops, the beauty on the tailgate and used the little 026 and pole prunner. 2.5hrs, 300.00 in my pocket, and no, I am no pro, I'm THE GREATEST, look left Sap, pointing my finger at ya,


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 24, 2006)

coveredinsap said:


> Yup, .404 .063 is funny to watch....it may not be fast, but it sure shovels some wood. Makes you smile just watching it work. Hold on tight!



Can't argue that. The .404 does seem to work very different than 3/8, why I do not know. The .404 on that 051 of mine runs slow and easy but the cut itself just seems to drop though automaticly. Of all the saws I got the 051, yup my real boat anchor, 30-35 lbs I think, maybe more, will be one that will never be sold or traded. Sounds like a old Harley and I just like it...


----------



## LarryTheCableGuy (Aug 24, 2006)

coveredinsap said:


> But enough of that....how about that 3/4 lb difference between the older lighter 440 and the heavy boat anchor 441, eh? LOL!


At least with the 441 you get a smoother ride and therefore less fatigue for the operator. Also for those few extra ounces you get a saw that runs cleaner. I am really surprised that you can't get behind that idea, Sap, especially after your rants about using corn oil instead of bar oil.

So, for a few extra ounces the consumer gets a couple of very good things in trade. Not so when paying more for "always on" dial-up.

.


----------



## computeruser (Aug 24, 2006)

Better than 790 posts and this thread is still going? Still pissing on about the difference of a few ounces between the old and new model? Wow. :deadhorse:


----------



## CaseyForrest (Aug 24, 2006)

LOL....switching over to chain pitch now, oh, and dial-up issues. I dont think there isnt an issue this thread hasnt hit yet.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 24, 2006)

computeruser said:


> Better than 790 posts and this thread is still going? Still pissing on about the difference of a few ounces between the old and new model? Wow. :deadhorse:



Awwwwwwwwww its winding down. Were soon gonna have a group hug and all will be forgotton. Troll is away so we'll have to wait untill he comes back.

BTW, that name of yours there reminds me. Just bought me a Dell laptop. They claimed it weighs 7.25 lbs but I think its heavier than that. Between the saw and that laptop I'm being dragged down,lol, NOT. What is a Dual Core processor??? It says Dual Core 1.6 Intell processor. I don't have a clue what a Dual Core processor is, what is it???????????


----------



## 166 (Aug 24, 2006)

*Only need 27 more posts*

Looks like 824 replies is the record on the chainsaw forum.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 24, 2006)

166 said:


> Looks like 824 replies is the record on the chainsaw forum.



What thread was that. I'd like to see it.


----------



## CaseyForrest (Aug 24, 2006)

<!-- Begin Official PayPal Seal --><a href="https://www.paypal.com/us/verified/pal=krisandnanccasey%40juno%2ecom" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.paypal.com/en_US/i/icon/verification_seal.gif" border="0" alt="Official PayPal Seal"></A><!-- End Official PayPal Seal -->

Just trying something...dont mind me.


----------



## Big Woody (Aug 24, 2006)

Dual Core means there are 2 processors on one chip. Prior PC computers had only one processor in most circumstances. With 2 processors you can have each doing seperate functions and be twice as productive. It would be like you repairing two saws simultaneously.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 24, 2006)

Big Woody said:


> Dual Core means there are 2 processors on one chip. Prior PC computers had only one processor in most circumstances. With 2 processors you can have each doing seperate functions and be twice as productive. It would be like you repairing two saws simultaneously.



Awwwwwwwww ok, that makes sense. Dell was making a big hoop la over it so I bought me one. Seems to run fairly fast. Did I make a decent choice getting the 1.6 processor speed Woody? They had some higher, in fact I think one was 2.4 but that dayumm thing cost a mint..


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 24, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Awwwwwwwww ok, that makes sense. Dell was making a big hoop la over it so I bought me one. Seems to run fairly fast. Did I make a decent choice getting the 1.6 processor speed Woody? They had some higher, in fact I think one was 2.4 but that dayumm thing cost a mint..




THALL you cant multi task so dont even think of it...


----------



## 166 (Aug 24, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> What thread was that. I'd like to see it.



http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=12680

Right now you're at #2


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 24, 2006)

04ultra said:


> THALL you cant multi task so dont even think of it...




No fear ole boy, I know what your thinking,lol. Fact is I'm just gonna load the laptop up with Grandkid pictures so I can quit loading this one up. The laptop being mobile I can take it to work and show off the little feller.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 24, 2006)

*Thanks Scott*

Looks like the Get Together Thread was No.1 and rightly so. I'm more than willing to close this one. Heck I was about 25 pages ago. I'm keeping the saw and liking it so far as I'm concerned end of story.


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 24, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> No fear ole boy, I know what your thinking,lol.




:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 24, 2006)

Look THALL you have two threads in the top 5...:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 24, 2006)

04ultra said:


> Look THALL you have two threads in the top 5...:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:



What, the hell ya say. Let me get my specs on, brb.


----------



## Big Woody (Aug 24, 2006)

Processor speed need is really dictated by what you are going to do with it. You don't need anything fast for just websurfing or emailing or wordprocessing. Speed is more important if you are going to do some movie making, gaming or running some sophisticated programs or number crunching. 

Having a superfast computer for posting on websites is like having an 090 for limbing. :greenchainsaw: 

I'd say a dual 1.6 is plenty fast. 

I do believe you have to set up the tasking for each processor. From my understanding each program is only using 1 processor. For example you can be running a movie making program on 1 processor while you websurf using the other.


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 24, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> What, the hell ya say. Let me get my specs on, brb.



You'll need them you ol-fart


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 24, 2006)

*I'll be*

Is that a list of all the top threads? If so something is wrong. I have to bring Sap back in this picture because as much as I hate to give it to him, that sucker, I think his very first story about the 390 had to be the longest thread AS ever seen. That thread went on for weeks. Anyone got any idea how long that thread was, it was a doosey....


----------



## Mr. (Aug 24, 2006)

I remember when threads got locked before all this BS could have happened.

Fred


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 24, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> Better check out that battery.
> 
> Dell.......they've been having trouble with the Sony exploding batteries.



See THALL I told you not to put the putter on your lap..It will explode..


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 24, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> Better check out that battery.
> 
> Dell.......they've been having trouble with the Sony exploding batteries.



So true Tree. I ordered the laptop on a Monday and the very next day came this big story on the news about the batteries. Seems it was for all models made up to July 18th 2006 so I just missed it. Apple just today recalled 1.5 million batteries as well. Thanks for the heads up though Tree, that was kind of you, seriously it was.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 24, 2006)

04ultra said:


> See THALL I told you not to put the putter on your lap..It will explode..



haha. BTW you I got your pic on there too so hush you heathen. Its gonna be my picture computer and thats about all I'll use it for.


----------



## Rotax Robert (Aug 24, 2006)

So, What is the longest or biggest thread ever on AS ???:monkey:


----------



## Rotax Robert (Aug 24, 2006)

How about this one.

Art Martin: Will the Real Logger Please Stand Up with 45,915 hits


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 24, 2006)

Rotax Robert said:


> So, What is the longest or biggest thread ever on AS ???:monkey:



I think the one Sap started if my memory serves me right, it was called Sort Of A Simple Plan. That thread went on for weeks on in. Scott says it was one about a get together but that one Sap had going back then was a long,long thread.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 24, 2006)

Rotax Robert said:


> How about this one.
> 
> Art Martin: Will the Real Logger Please Stand Up with 45,915 hits



dayummmmmmmmm, Robert I think you just answered the question, wow.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 24, 2006)

coveredinsap said:


> A 361 running .325 .050 sounds like an accident waiting to happen. Given enough time and the right (wrong) conditions, I see that chain becomming a whirling dervish.
> 
> !




Bunch of BS...


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 24, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> I I believe there will be problems with the 441 running lean and suffering from heat damage.
> 
> .




Twaddle... Treeco - stay with your hostas... You know something about those.


----------



## Rotax Robert (Aug 24, 2006)

Dancing with the Devil 27,582

Predator Hotsaw 27,003


Still Looking for something even close to Art Martins


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 24, 2006)

Rotax Robert said:


> Dancing with the Devil 27,582
> 
> Predar Hotsaw 27,003
> 
> ...



How long ago were those?, I never seen those. Topping Arts is gonna be tuff..


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 24, 2006)

back to weight

Saws should all be weighted full of gas and oil. The saw with the biggest gas tank looses. Who uses a saw with no gas or oil (other than Thall's MS660)?:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 24, 2006)

Rotax Robert said:


> Dancing with the Devil 27,582
> 
> Predar Hotsaw 27,003
> 
> ...




It would take a month to read all of them..


----------



## GASoline71 (Aug 24, 2006)

They were some time ago. I think Babcock started a thread way back when that went into oblivian too. Can't remember which one it was though.

Gary


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 24, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> back to weight
> 
> Saws should all be weighted full of gas and oil. The saw with the biggest gas tank looses. Who uses a saw with no gas or oil (other than Thall's MS660)?:hmm3grin2orange:



All with a standard handle ..None of the west coast handles..


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 24, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> back to weight
> 
> Saws should all be weighted full of gas and oil. The saw with the biggest gas tank looses. Who uses a saw with no gas or oil (other than Thall's MS660)?:hmm3grin2orange:



Hey I use that saw all the time. Brings me great joy to knock the dust off of it now and then,lol. Yaw keep making fun of my virgin 660 and I'm gonna uhhhhhhhh, uhhhhhhhhh , put it under the bed and just hide it,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 24, 2006)

04ultra said:


> All with a standard handle ..None of the west coast handles..




HUH???? those wimpy east coast version just don't look as manly 12 ounces of pure manhood!


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 24, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> HUH???? those wimpy east coast version just don't look as manly 12 ounces of pure manhood!



All right I'm located right in the middle of this argument that is going to start..


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 24, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> HUH???? those wimpy east coast version just don't look as manly 12 ounces of pure manhood!



Here in Virgina we don't need those big handles. Most of the guys round here, including your truely, saw with one hand and split wood with a maul in the other hand at the sametime, maybe thats why after using the 051 one handed the 441 feels like a feather to me,,:biggrinbounce2: :biggrinbounce2:


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 24, 2006)

You guys know if the 441 is set up west coast ..It would be to heavy to use..:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 24, 2006)

04ultra said:


> You guys know if the 441 is set up west coast ..It would be to heavy to use..:hmm3grin2orange:



lol, use one in each hand boy, whats da matter with ya, aint ya ever use a lightweight saw before, :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 24, 2006)

Lake we weigh our saws 1 shot glass at a time...The west coast saws are fun..


----------



## rbtree (Aug 24, 2006)

Rotax Robert said:


> So, What is the longest or biggest thread ever on AS ???:monkey:



I think this thread, started by MB, who else. with 2517 posts and 92394 views...

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=12381


----------



## sawinredneck (Aug 24, 2006)

04ultra said:


> Lake we weigh our saws 1 shot glass at a time...The west coast saws are fun..




I have one of tose Ultra!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They rock!!!!!
Ok, back to 11.2oz:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Rotax Robert (Aug 24, 2006)

Yeah, thats a biggie...I guess I was refering to Chainsaw and not AS as a whole.

Rotax


----------



## SinglerM (Aug 25, 2006)

*I'm cracking up!!*

I haven't been here in awhile. I just started reading the posts here again. Somehow I got sucked into this blackhole of a thread. ;-0
There's some pretty funny stuff here. But Manual, your saying:

"Also my Dog puts out a good Turd. But I'm not going to touch it."

that's some funny s*%t!

I can't even remember what it was I was interested in reading about since I got on this thread. 


Hi everybody.

opcorn:


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 25, 2006)

SinglerM said:


> I haven't been here in awhile. I just started reading the posts here again. Somehow I got sucked into this blackhole of a thread. ;-0
> There's some pretty funny stuff here. But Manual, your saying:
> 
> "Also my Dog puts out a good Turd. But I'm not going to touch it."
> ...



Glad to have you back...


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 25, 2006)

SinglerM said:


> I haven't been here in awhile. I just started reading the posts here again. Somehow I got sucked into this blackhole of a thread. ;-0
> There's some pretty funny stuff here. But Manual, your saying:
> 
> "Also my Dog puts out a good Turd. But I'm not going to touch it."
> ...





Ha, I missed that one, but I've probably missed a few hundred in this thread alone... I was going to say something profound on page 37, but...

Welcome back... 

150 something to go...


----------



## BlueRidgeMark (Aug 25, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> I was going to say something profound on page 37, but...





Yeah, "but" is right! Where would a _mere employee_ get something profound to say? 


Besides, you pay too much for cable.


So there!

HA! Now _that'll_ show you how to be profound!

:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## manual (Aug 25, 2006)

BlueRidgeMark said:


> Yeah, "but" is right! Where would a _mere employee_ get something profound to say?
> 
> 
> Besides, you pay too much for cable.
> ...


I didn't see that one.
Lake did say "But". I don't think he spelled it right for the sentance.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 25, 2006)

BlueRidgeMark said:


> Yeah, "but" is right! Where would a _mere employee_ get something profound to say?
> 
> 
> Besides, you pay too much for cable.
> ...




I find profundity all over AS - I just requote what others say, but try to not do it in the same thread...:rockn: 

"mere" makes me feel so inadequate...


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 25, 2006)

manual said:


> I didn't see that one.
> Lake did say "But". I don't think he spelled it right for the sentance.




*SENTENCE*


----------



## LarryTheCableGuy (Aug 25, 2006)

Maybe he meant the other kind of sentance, you know, the kind that is spelled differant.

.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 25, 2006)

LarryTheCableGuy said:


> Maybe he meant the other kind of sentance, you know, the kind that is spelled differant.
> 
> .


Yeah... maybe a "*differant sentance*..."


----------



## manual (Aug 25, 2006)

I'll....... Oh never mind. :taped:


----------



## LarryTheCableGuy (Aug 25, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> Yeah... maybe a "*differant sentance*..."


Yeah, you gets it!


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 25, 2006)

LarryTheCableGuy said:


> Maybe he meant the other kind of sentance, you know, the kind that is spelled differant.
> 
> .



Larry just say it ..Canadian spelling just throw in extra letters ..Labour =labor....


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 25, 2006)

manual said:


> I'll....... Oh never mind. :taped:




We all love ya anyhow... Damn, I'mging to ahve to be soe careful form now onn with ma spelin.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 25, 2006)

04ultra said:


> Larry just say it ..Canadian spelling just throw in extra letters ..Labour =labor....



Where's the extra letter in "EH"


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 25, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> Where's the extra letter in "EH"





 Andy ...


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 25, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> This looks like a good thread for Hell's kitchen.




Spelling?


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 25, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> No not for spelling. This thread is nothing more than a marketing ploy started by Thall who probably still hasn't run a full tank of gas through the saw.
> 
> If Stihl were a sponsor here this would be a good place for this thread but they are not.



Pathetic.. How many tanks of gas haven't you run through a 441? Ever seen one other than on line?? 

Yes, go grind your axe in Hell Kitchen - let's see if you fare better there.. heck, it would be hard not to.


----------



## coveredinsap (Aug 25, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> No not for spelling. This thread is nothing more than a marketing ploy started by Thall who probably still hasn't run a full tank of gas through the saw.
> 
> If Stihl were a sponsor here this would be a good place for this thread but they are not.



Of course he hasn't run much gas thru it....that would mean it would get dirty. And then it wouldn't look as nice sitting up there on the shelf it's now on.

After all...it's an _investment_! Hah!

Hey....I'm curious, if I start a business, how do I get my employees to suck off my product like Lake and Thall do?


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 25, 2006)

coveredinsap said:


> Hey....I'm curious, if I start a business, how do I get my employees to suck off my product like Lake and Thall do?




It's easy - get a great product!!! :hmm3grin2orange: Sorry, just couldn't resist, again...


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 25, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> I'm a pint behind Thall.LOL



A zero is still a zero, no matter how you count:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 25, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> No not for spelling. This thread is nothing more than a marketing ploy started by Thall who probably still hasn't run a full tank of gas through the saw.
> 
> If Stihl were a sponsor here this would be a good place for this thread but they are not.



Awwwwwww look at ya Tree. Last nite I thank ya for reminding me about the Dell battery recall and left you alone. Today your right back on the same kick. They have a name for people like you, bud one minute, back stabber the next minute. You get slapped around one minute and then your humping legs the next minute. Your one weird dude. 

I'm marketing a saw, what a joke. I bought a saw, got that, bought. I like it and yes this is a saw forum in which people talk about saws. A forum you don't control but sit around in all day and all nite apparently thinking you do control it, another joke. Tree you should get out more often. There are other things in life besides your opinion. You say Stihl should sponcer this site, that looks like your trying to market something Tree. So funny how you talk in circles and make a pure azz out of yourself over and over and over. Your slowly making yourself the laffing stock of the site you so love, wise up Tree and give it a rest., wink.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 25, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> I'm a pint behind Thall.LOL



Your about three quarts shy of a gallon in the upstairs department too,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 25, 2006)

coveredinsap said:


> Of course he hasn't run much gas thru it....that would mean it would get dirty. And then it wouldn't look as nice sitting up there on the shelf it's now on.
> 
> After all...it's an _investment_! Hah!
> 
> Hey....I'm curious, if I start a business, how do I get my employees to suck off my product like Lake and Thall do?


 

First thing you do Sap is quit charging 900.00 for something worth 10.00, that would help,hehe. See Sap just like old times ole buddy. As for the shelf fear not if it falls, I know a carpenter that will put it back up, right,


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 25, 2006)

Anybody want to buy a Pathetic Tomahawk??? :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## LarryTheCableGuy (Aug 25, 2006)

04ultra said:


> Anybody want to buy a Pathetic Tomahawk??? :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


What, and just put it on a shelf?

BRAHAHAHAHAHAHA!


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 25, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> It's easy - get a great product!!! :hmm3grin2orange: Sorry, just couldn't resist, again...



I hope Sap has a great rag to polish my shelf with after I pay him to re hang it,hehe. Wait he'll be my employee won't he, :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: Guess he will have to sucking up to me huh to stay employed, hmmm,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 25, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> This thread belongs in Hell's Kitchen for sure.




Go start your own thread... Leave this one alone..:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 25, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> A zero is still a zero, no matter how you count:hmm3grin2orange:



Shoot Lake be carefull there ole feller. If you slap him too much he'll be humping your leg today and stabbing you in the back tomorrow, dats a fact......


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 25, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Shoot Lake be carefull there ole feller. If you slap him too much he'll be humping your leg today and stabbing you in the back tomorrow, dats a fact......



We sure have seen that from him time and time again..


----------



## LarryTheCableGuy (Aug 25, 2006)

My eyes! My EYES!!

.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 25, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> This thread belongs in Hell's Kitchen for sure.



Thanks to you Tree yes it does. Good job Tree, least you know more about messing up threads than you do chainsaws. Over in the other thread you'll get more of the same except worse, I'm being gentle with ya in this one,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 25, 2006)

04ultra said:


> We sure have seen that from him time and time again..



Its really called sucking up after getting up off the floor but humping is a shorter way to say it,


----------



## manual (Aug 25, 2006)

LarryTheCableGuy said:


> My eyes! My EYES!!
> 
> .


 You got that line from Friends. Yep, Thats what we all are here, is friends.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 25, 2006)

LarryTheCableGuy said:


> My eyes! My EYES!!
> 
> .



Watch your back Larry, ya never know what tree he may be hiding behind just lurking for a open shot,  I just caught him shooting blanks a minute ago,


----------



## manual (Aug 25, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> Glad you agree.
> 
> Hopefully it's hell's kitchen bound.


 

Tree If you want to pick a fight then go to Hell s Kitchen. Start with your itch and soon someone will answer you. 

This thread is about that overweight,nonpowered,Husky wanna be, call it what you want Sthil ms441. :hmm3grin2orange::hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## manual (Aug 25, 2006)

*Pointing fingers*

Thall now you stop pointing your finger at me. It's not my fault that Sthil built that saw. It is about time Sthil built a saw that runs smooth.
They should have copied Husky along time ago.:yoyo:


----------



## Kneejerk Bombas (Aug 25, 2006)

I skimmed through about 30 pages of this thread and if you edited out the garbage, it entire contents would be on about a page and a half.

Here's what I got:
_
The 441 is a little heavier, lost a little power, but runs cleaner, quieter, gets better gas mileage, and has less vibration, than the 440.
_ 
Haha, I just condensed 59 pages into two lines.


----------



## Kneejerk Bombas (Aug 25, 2006)

manual said:


> Thall now you stop pointing your finger at me. It's not my fault that Sthil built that saw. It is about time Sthil built a saw that runs smooth.
> They should have copied Husky along time ago.:yoyo:



I suspect they posponed improving the suspension for a few years knowing they would be needing a major drawing point once the low emmision saw models came out.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 25, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> Glad you agree.
> 
> Hopefully it's hell's kitchen bound.



Well Tree you don't need this thread to get me over in Hells Kitchen. Whatcha say we go over there and have a little fun ole buddy, hmmmmmmmmm. Unlike this thread you won't be able to do any humping,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## BlueRidgeMark (Aug 25, 2006)

Mike, the time for sensible posts in this thread was waaaay back.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 25, 2006)

manual said:


> Thall now you stop pointing your finger at me. It's not my fault that Sthil built that saw. It is about time Sthil built a saw that runs smooth.
> They should have copied Husky along time ago.:yoyo:



Hint Manaul, No.1 doesn't copy No.2, they want to stay No.1,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## BlueRidgeMark (Aug 25, 2006)

manual said:


> This thread is about that overweight,nonpowered,Husky wanna be, call it what you want Sthil ms441.




Manual, quit mealymouthing. Come right out and tell us how you feel about it!


----------



## manual (Aug 25, 2006)

Mike Maas said:


> I suspect they posponed improving the suspension for a few years knowing they would be needing a major drawing point once the low emmision saw models came out.



My thoughts' are the same. Lets see Sthil added more weight and used springs instead of rubber. Those two factors alone would make the Ms441 feel smoother. I don't need to run the saw to know that.
As for rod placement on the flywheels. I would think Sthil changed that also.
I don't Know. I don't recall anybody saying what they did.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 25, 2006)

Mike Maas said:


> I skimmed through about 30 pages of this thread and if you edited out the garbage, it entire contents would be on about a page and a half.
> 
> Here's what I got:
> _
> ...


Bingo, good post.


----------



## LarryTheCableGuy (Aug 25, 2006)

Yup.



LarryTheCableGuy said:


> At least with the 441 you get a smoother ride and therefore less fatigue for the operator. Also for those few extra ounces you get a saw that runs cleaner. I am really surprised that you can't get behind that idea, Sap, especially after your rants about using corn oil instead of bar oil.


----------



## manual (Aug 25, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Hint Manaul, No.1 doesn't copy No.2, they want to stay No.1,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:



They do if they don't want to lose. History shows you can't always be #1.
Sorry Thall. Their is a reason why Sthil Copied Huskys' design.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 25, 2006)

manual said:


> They do if they don't want to lose. History shows you can't always be #1.
> Sorry Thall. Their is a reason why Sthil Copied Huskys' design.



I'm just yaking your chain Manual. Don't get all bent out of shape, one day Husky may be N0.1, one day. I don't knock other brands no more than to defend myself. That being said ole boy its been Stihl No.1 for 35 years in a row so seems to me Husky should copy Stihl don'tcha think,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 25, 2006)

*And YES*

I got my finger at ya Manual,lol


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 25, 2006)

manual said:


> My thoughts' are the same. Lets see Sthil added more weight and used springs instead of rubber. Those two factors alone would make the Ms441 feel smoother. I don't need to run the saw to know that.
> As for rod placement on the flywheels. I would think Sthil changed that also.
> I don't Know. I don't recall anybody saying what they did.



Uhhhhhhhhh cuse me Manual, all kidding aside now, the saw uses not only the springs but a buffer system too, it has 4 buffers on the lower tank housing, 2 in the back , 2 in the front. They along with the springs make it super smooth. 

Ok now we can go back to playing. Those springs add about 8-12 ounces to the overall saw, wonder who's great idea that was,grrrrrrrr:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 25, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Uhhhhhhhhh cuse me Manual, all kidding aside now, the saw uses not only the springs but a buffer system too, it has 4 buffers on the lower tank housing, 2 in the back , 2 in the front. They along with the springs make it super smooth.
> 
> Ok now we can go back to playing. Those springs add about 8-12 ounces to the overall saw, wonder who's great idea that was,grrrrrrrr:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:



WOW let me get this straight they (tried) to make it as heavy as the 575 but fell short and then tried to compete on HP but couldn't choke it down enough..:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 25, 2006)

Mike Maas said:


> I skimmed through about 30 pages of this thread and if you edited out the garbage, it entire contents would be on about a page and a half.
> 
> Here's what I got:
> _
> ...




Ha ha, but you got it wrong. It gained a little power!


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 25, 2006)

04ultra said:


> WOW let me get this straight they (tried) to make it as heavy as the 575 but fell short and then tried to compete on HP but couldn't choke it down enough..:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:




LOLOL, I wouldn't say all that. I'll tell one thing they did though, they sure made it look pruty,lol


----------



## manual (Aug 25, 2006)

just read an article stating that Husky is #1 in sales. Hmmmm
Thats right. It is on this site. I can find it if you want me to.


----------



## manual (Aug 25, 2006)

04ultra said:


> WOW let me get this straight they (tried) to make it as heavy as the 575 but fell short and then tried to compete on HP but couldn't choke it down enough..:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


 No Sthil waited for husky to show theres' then Sthil made a protype of one to be just alittle shall we say bigger.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 25, 2006)

manual said:


> just read an article stating that Husky is #1 in sales. Hmmmm
> Thats right. It is on this site. I can find it if you want me to.



They finally done it, well I'll be, cool. Wait a minute you found it where,lol. Manual the No.1 saw is the one you use, tats a fact, yours is the best to you. That I can agree to...


----------



## manual (Aug 25, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> LOLOL, I wouldn't say all that. I'll tell one thing they did though, they sure made it look pruty,lol


Yea, never did like the hump on the husky for the air filter.


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 25, 2006)

manual said:


> Yea, never did like the hump on the husky for the air filter.



Also Husky could have put decompression in a better spot..


----------



## manual (Aug 25, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> They finally done it, well I'll be, cool. Wait a minute you found it where,lol. Manual the No.1 saw is the one you use, tats a fact, yours is the best to you. That I can agree to...



Yes that is true the #1 saw to me is mine. But thats me.
I'm talking facts would you like to see the article. I can find it. Read it in the off the topic forum. Someone downloaded it.


----------



## manual (Aug 25, 2006)

04ultra said:


> Also Husky could have put decompression in a better spot..


 Know what you mean I use every time I start my saw, doesn't bother me.
It comes natural to me anymore.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 25, 2006)

manual said:


> Yea, never did like the hump on the husky for the air filter.




lol, well regardless I won't use the 575 to justify anything on the 441 Manual. I'm not into brand bashing but will play around just like you do. Besides the 441 is so pruty it need not fear your J'reds or Huskies,wink.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 25, 2006)

manual said:


> Yes that is true the #1 saw to me is mine. But thats me.
> I'm talking facts would you like to see the article. I can find it. Read it in the off the topic forum. Someone downloaded it.



Ok you find it and pop it up here. I'd like to see it. Lets get those facts on the table kind Sir. I'll wait before I give you mine,grin...


----------



## manual (Aug 25, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Ok you find it and pop it up here. I'd like to see it. Lets get those facts on the table kind Sir. I'll wait before I give you mine,grin...


 I'm looking it was the one about husky going on its own. from Elux


----------



## manual (Aug 25, 2006)

manual said:


> They do if they don't want to lose. History shows you can't always be #1.
> Sorry Thall. Their is a reason why Sthil Copied Huskys' design.



Funny how you did not say anything about this.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 25, 2006)

manual said:


> I'm looking it was the one about husky going on its own. from Elux



Awwwwwwww ok, I read that too. That will be a major plus for Husky I think. Now they can shake off all the
E-lux control and do what they want now. Most likely Manual now that they are on their own they will soon come out with 441-H,hehe,just messing with ya..


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 25, 2006)

manual said:


> Funny how you did not say anything about this.



Look back up through the thread, I answered that. Don't you worry ole boy, I got my finger on ya and my eye too. I answered that post a page or two back, go look. I'm heading home, talk at ya later..........


----------



## manual (Aug 25, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Look back up through the thread, I answered that. Don't you worry ole boy, I got my finger on ya and my eye too. I answered that post a page or two back, go look. I'm heading home, talk at ya later..........



Oh yea, Drive safely, I'm not through with ya.


----------



## manual (Aug 25, 2006)

http://corporate.husqvarna.com/index.php?p=ir&s=press&t=detail&afw_id=1043481&lang=en

Husqvarna WORLDS largest producers of chainsaws.


----------



## manual (Aug 25, 2006)

04ultra said:


> You leave something out ??
> 
> Husqvarna is the world's largest producer of chainsaws, lawn mowers and other portable petrol-powered garden equipment such as trimmers and blowers,


 Thats right, See I got you to say it also.:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 25, 2006)

manual said:


> http://corporate.husqvarna.com/index.php?p=ir&s=press&t=detail&afw_id=1043481&lang=en
> 
> Husqvarna WORLDS largest producers of chainsaws.




So they say out of context (you need to finish the quote...), but it's double talk... Lot's of lawnmowers, re-branded poulan saws, generators, tractors etc... and about 17 other brands and companies aggregated. Stihl unfortuantely doesn't publish any such numbers as they are private, but say they are No.1. 


Here's the real data for the latest reporting period (June 2006):

http://corporate.husqvarna.com/files/press/husqvarna/200607182013en2.pdf

North American "consumer products" down in 2006; North American Professional" same as 2005". Hmmm... Stellar job Husky.


I wonder who mopped up the declines and increased sales? :monkey:


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 25, 2006)

*Good Job Manual - we'll hit a 1000 now!*


----------



## manual (Aug 25, 2006)

04ultra said:


> Post 987 you said #1 in sales....The artical says
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 ya ya They just produce them to look at them.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 25, 2006)

Let's do the math, and get this thread back on topic:

100,000 Lowes poulans, opps, I mean Huskys - 1 ms441
1 Husky 575 = 0.8 Ms441

So there! Smoke that.:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## manual (Aug 25, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> Let's do the math, and get theis thread back on topic:
> 
> 100,000 Lowes poulans, I mean Huskys - 1 ms441
> 1 Husky 575 = 0.8 Ms441
> ...


 Whats "theis"


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 25, 2006)

manual said:


> Oh yea, Drive safely, I'm not through with ya.



Ok Manaul I made it home. So ya not done with are ya, cool. Just remember I got my eye on and my finger pointed right at ya all the time,lol. 

I see you found the thing about Husky being N0.1. Seems they're into more than just saws and thats cool. See Manual you can't get me riled up over brands because I got no bones to pick with any of them. I like my brand, you like your brand and I think thats grand. I'll be dayumm, I'm a poet,haha.

This thread is nothing more than good ole mudslinging over paper numbers but those throwing the mud tend to get alittle, how shall I say it, overwhelmed when its tossed back. Other words their mouth tend to overload their behinds,lolol. Back to the saw seems Just Mow has one and he likes his too. So the score is 2 to nothing. The mudslingers are losing but then again what else is new,lolol. Manual I don't see you as a mudslinger, I see you as a pot stirrer you oreny cuss but I likes ya so its all good. You keep on stirring and I'll keep on answering you. Beware, I'm crafty, I'll have you buying Stihl sooner than you think, wink...


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 25, 2006)

manual said:


> Whats "theis"



it's *WHAT'S*, but good to see you're watching me.... 

It's called "n-key rollover". Two many damn fingers on the keyboard at once!


----------



## Sethro (Aug 25, 2006)

> Beware, I'm crafty, I'll have you buying Stihl sooner than you think, wink...


Man you sure are good salesman! What are you guys a class "Y" stihl dealership now ? dink...


----------



## manual (Aug 25, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> it's *WHAT'S*, but good to see you're watching me....
> 
> It's called "n-key rollover". Two many damn fingers on the keyboard at once!



I'm always learning from you.
I did not understand what you were saying about ms441 and 575xp.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 25, 2006)

John Dolmar said:


> Man you sure are good salesman! What are you guys a class "Y" stihl dealership now ? dink...



HAHA, long time no see John. Nice saw but as much as I like Stihl I won't change my last name to Stihl,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## manual (Aug 25, 2006)

*Thall=Sthil?*

It is ok I like this site. No harm done. No foul.

Oh by the way how would you take someones quote and make it your Sig?


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 25, 2006)

manual said:


> It is ok I like this site. No harm done. No foul.
> 
> Oh by the way how would you take someones quote and make it your Sig?



What is the sig?


----------



## manual (Aug 25, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> What is the sig?


 Signature. Can't say no more.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 25, 2006)

manual said:


> Signature. Can't say no more.



You mean you want to borrow a quote?


----------



## manual (Aug 25, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> You mean you want to borrow a quote?


 I guess Redneck did it a couple times.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 25, 2006)

manual said:


> I guess Redneck did it a couple times.



Manual I don't quite understand what you mean. Are you saying you want to take someone's quote and make it your sig? If so I don't know how they do that. If its something I've said that you want to use shoot go for it, I'm as cool as they come...


----------



## manual (Aug 25, 2006)

naw not you


----------



## manual (Aug 25, 2006)

hows that


----------



## Kneejerk Bombas (Aug 25, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> ... it has 4 buffers on the lower tank housing, 2 in the back , 2 in the front. They along with the springs make it super smooth...
> 
> ...Those springs add about 8-12 ounces to the overall saw...



I don't think the springs added the extra weight, I believe the weight comes from the motor design. Did you notice the weight increase is almost identical of that from the 372 to the 575? And Husky didn't change their suspension.


----------



## Kneejerk Bombas (Aug 25, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> Ha ha, but you got it wrong. It gained a little power!



Is that based on the accurate stihl specifications, or an actual series of races with a stock 440 with the same chain and log?

People want the same size and weight saw to have just as much power, while using much less gas and emitting less pollution. It's not an easy task, or it would have been done long ago.


----------



## manual (Aug 25, 2006)

Mike Maas said:


> I don't think the springs added the extra weight, I believe the weight comes from the motor design. Did you notice the weight increase is almost identical of that from the 372 to the 575? And Husky didn't change their suspension.



Quite right. The solid rubber isolaters would weight more then then spring system.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 25, 2006)

Mike Maas said:


> I don't think the springs added the extra weight, I believe the weight comes from the motor design. Did you notice the weight increase is almost identical of that from the 372 to the 575? And Husky didn't change their suspension.




I know Mike. I was toying with Manual. Far as I'm concerned everyone is entitled to their opinion and I don't mind. Its been fun thread for the most part. After all thats been said one thing has and will remain the same, I like that saw.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 25, 2006)

manual said:


> Quite right. The solid rubber isolaters would weight more then then spring system.



Ok Manual its my turn to bug you now that you got that big sig down there ole boy. Are ya ready, get ready. Do you know Bluebird or AYP? Both are well known , do you know who they are?? You better get this right or you will have to eat your sig., (wink)


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 25, 2006)

Mike Maas said:


> Is that based on the accurate stihl specifications, or an actual series of races with a stock 440 with the same chain and log?
> 
> People want the same size and weight saw to have just as much power, while using much less gas and emitting less pollution. It's not an easy task, or it would have been done long ago.




I think Stihl deliberately increased the weight of the saw to get some controversy. Sure generated a lot of interest on this site. Stihl might give Thall an award, like a free hat. What would that hat say...? hmmm::monkey: 

*Someone go test the damn thing, side by side a 440, and put all this to rest!* 

You might all be surprised by the wider torque band, so no testing in 8x8 cants! get some real logs out there.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 25, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> Someone go test the damn thing, side by side a 440, and put all this to rest!
> 
> You might all be suprised by the wider torque band, so no testing in 8x8 cants! get some real logs out there.




Its already been done Lake. Those that think a 440 will cut faster than a 441are in for a rude awakening. The main two guys at Mid-Atlantic Stihl already ran the 441 in a good size log they have for testing. Both said flat out the 441 is the faster cutting saw. The head man told me as far as it hanging with the 460 he wasn't sure but it would be damn close. Same thing I said all through this thread. Once again those that have used it have a very different opinion of those that have not. They agree too the wieght is worth the differance in the smoothnes. Makes sense to me, what about you Lake?


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 25, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> I think Stihl deliberately increased the weight of the saw to get some controversy. Sure generated a lot of interest on this site. Stihl might give Thall an award, like a free hat. What would that hat say...? hmmm::monkey:
> 
> *Someone go test the damn thing, side by side a 440, and put all this to rest!*
> 
> You might all be surprised by the wider torque band, so no testing in 8x8 cants! get some real logs out there.




hahahahaha, so funny you mention that Lake. I'll tell you about it in a e-mail. Those that don't know about the saw don't need to know about the e-mail either. Lets just say this thread is being watched by a ole buddy of mine and he's all grins........


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 25, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Its already been done Lake. Those that think a 440 will cut faster than a 441are in for a rude awakening. The main two guys at Mid-Atlantic Stihl already ran the 441 in a good size log they have for testing. Both said flat out the 441 is the faster cutting saw. The head man told me as far as it hanging with the 460 he wasn't sure but it would be damn close. Same thing I said all through this thread. Once again those that have used it have a very different opinion of those that have not. They agree too the wieght is worth the differance in the smoothnes. Makes sense to me, what about you Lake?



 

Ha Ha... you know the score. Nothing Stihl says or its mere employees can be trusted with facts.

We need 10 AS guys to test in all corners of the world, and agree. Just like the UN. Pull some strings at Stihl and get someone a saw to test!


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 25, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> Ha Ha... you know the score. Nothing Stihl says or its mere employees can be trusted with facts.
> 
> We need 10 AS guys to test in all corners of the world, and agree. Just like the UN. Pull some stings at Stihl and get someone a saw to test!




Stihl did, they got me and Just Mow, we like it. Fact is the saw, as you know Lake, has been in so many tests before it hit the market its unbelievable. That saw has had the living hell run out of it way before it hit the market. Thats why I don't worry about oh its gonna burn up or oh its gonna run hot or the lower end is gonna bust a load of bearings on me,lolol. The saw has been in tested for all that already so the whiners will just have get a hankie and sit in the corner and wish for bad luck on someone else.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 25, 2006)

It's been in "test" in this area for nearly a year!


----------



## CaseyForrest (Aug 25, 2006)

Picked up my 200T tonight. Eyed the 441, picked it up and gave it a once over........

Pure Stihl trash. It might as well be all orange, it has no business having any white on it.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 25, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> It's been in "test" in this area for nearly a year!



I knew that. Fact is its been tested much longer than that. Thats why I sit back and grin at all the non-sense and assumtions its gonna run hot and blah blah blah from the likes of you know who. 

Someone said they heard Stihl had problems with it but couldn't name what the problem was, figures. Some said they heard this and that. I say to those hear this, I like it. Had a man come in Thursday that owns his own tree service company. He looked it over and thought it was nice. I told him of the wieght differance between the 441 and the 440 and get this, so funny, he says "what, that all, BFD". I about fell in the floor laffing. I guess to some a few ounces is what it is, a few ounces. :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 25, 2006)

CaseyForrest said:


> Picked up my 200T tonight. Eyed the 441, picked it up and gave it a once over........
> 
> Pure Stihl trash. It might as well be all orange, it has no business having any white on it.



I agree 100%. Took mine back and got my money back. They asked why was I returning it and I said well by Joe I heard it was too durn heavy. They asked who told me that. I said a bunch of fellers that never touched it yet. They said is that right, :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: 

Beware Cassey, the bar nut on the 200T has been increased .1000th of a ounce. It does give you one extra thread to tighten it up though. Should be good fodder for a new thread huh,opcorn: opcorn:


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 25, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> You should have told him it's also a few more ounces than the 460 but weaker and got his response.



The tag was on the saw Tree, it shows the HP rating and he was reading it. I assume he could read Tree but then again maybe he's like you, alittle shy upstairs but I don't think he was. BTW Tree how come you didn't go help your buddy Sap over in the Hells Kitchen thread. Whats the matter big boy, don't have the guns for it,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## CaseyForrest (Aug 25, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> I agree 100%. Took mine back and got my money back. They asked why was I returning it and I said well by Joe I heard it was too durn heavy. They asked who told me that. I said a bunch of fellers that never touched it yet. They said is that right, :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:
> 
> Beware Cassey, the bar nut on the 200T has been increased .1000th of a ounce. It does give you one extra thread to tighten it up though. Should be good fodder for a new thread huh,opcorn: opcorn:



Thats why I had to get a 12" bar for it. it wasnt balanced with a 14".


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 25, 2006)

CaseyForrest said:


> Thats why I had to get a 12" bar for it. it wasnt balanced with a 14".



Well I can tell you this right now Cassey, my 200T is better than your 200T, I have the lighter bar nut,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: 

The 200T is one mean little saw, I think Tree would even agree to that statement..


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 25, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> Well if the tags are on the saws why does the 440/441 comparison come up? The 441 is as closely related to the 460 as it is to the 440.
> 
> Couldn't he read? LOL



LOLOL, Tree your starting to crack me up. Fact is the reason it came up is because right above the 441 and 460 are two 440's sitting side by side on sale at 10% off to get rid of them. So thats why the comparison came up. He like the feel of the 441 better than both the 440 and 460. The price plays a part too ya know. Tree you love that 460 so much I'll tell ya what I'll do. I got 5 of them, lets say you takem all at 10% off, deal?


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 25, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> What are your prices for each of the saws?



Seriously,are you interested?


----------



## Rspike (Aug 25, 2006)

1


----------



## Rspike (Aug 25, 2006)

2


----------



## Rspike (Aug 25, 2006)

3


----------



## Rspike (Aug 25, 2006)

4


----------



## Rspike (Aug 25, 2006)

there ........ I am helping to get this thread over with .


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 25, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> Of course I'm interested. I'm a serious chain saw user. I don't need six 046 at one time though. Not yet anyway.
> 
> I bet I've bought over 100 Stihl saws in the past 20 years. More if you count all of the 09 we went through. We would buy the 09 six at a time for $175 ea. some years ago.



Dayummmmmmmmmmmmmm, thats mighty impressive. Well all bull aside Tree if you wanted a deal on a few saws I could and would easily fix you up. This thread is all in fun and carring on, I'm sure you realize that...


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 25, 2006)

Rspike said:


> there ........ I am helping to get this thread over with .



Thanks Spike.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 25, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> You should have told him it's also a few more ounces than the 460 but weaker and got his response.




Ha, then you tell him it's a bunch cheaper! One day you're going to have to go look at one! Do you ever get out?

Tell them it feels like a big 361. They get that real quick.


----------



## Kneejerk Bombas (Aug 25, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Its already been done Lake. Those that think a 440 will cut faster than a 441are in for a rude awakening. The main two guys at Mid-Atlantic Stihl already ran the 441 in a good size log they have for testing. Both said flat out the 441 is the faster cutting saw. The head man told me as far as it hanging with the 460 he wasn't sure but it would be damn close. Same thing I said all through this thread. Once again those that have used it have a very different opinion of those that have not. They agree too the wieght is worth the differance in the smoothnes. Makes sense to me, what about you Lake?


Take the results of a test like that with a grain of salt, based on who did the test. And don't you think it's funny that Mid-Atlantic Stihl didn't have a clue how fast a 460 cuts compared tot he 441? I think they know exactly how it cuts in comparison.
Can't you just see the guys at Mid-Atlantic Stihl scratching their heads wondering where on earth they could find a 460 to test? LOL!
I would be very surprised if the 441 outcut the 440 in a race through a 20" log. I'm sure it's close, but they wouldn't make a new saw that messed up the order of things. They just needed to beat the 575 by a hair.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 25, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> Ha, then you tell him it's a bunch cheaper! One day you're going to have to go look at one! Do you ever get out?
> 
> Tell them it feels like a big 361. They get that real quick.



Lake something has been missing from this thread. I got to put you on the spot ole feller. You've picked up the 441, ran it through some wood but you've yet to say what you personally think of it. Whats your honest opinion on it? I'm clear on my view I like it, you may not as much as me but even so I want your take on the saw.


----------



## Kneejerk Bombas (Aug 25, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> It's my use of Stihl saws.......and their improving power to weight ratios over the years that has me concerned about the step backwards in power to weight ratio the 441 brings to the table.



Are you considering the huge emmision reqirement that is being met?
I think it's fantastic that the new saws are as good as they are, considering that fact.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 25, 2006)

Smooth, nice feel, fast cut, but what can I tell in an 18 inch log with a brand new saw, and the customer watching!!!! The first two guys who bought I just had to watch them!

There's one in my future... maybe sooner than later. Yeah, and I really need another saw.

Feedback from the buyers is real postive, but heck, they just bought new saws and are still in the excitment stage:hmm3grin2orange: I need to hand out AS links to these guys to get them to tell their story but I'm not sure they can type, or be bothered. 

There.. not what you wanted, but...


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 25, 2006)

Mike Maas said:


> Take the results of a test like that with a grain of salt, based on who did the test. And don't you think it's funny that Mid-Atlantic Stihl didn't have a clue how fast a 460 cuts compared tot he 441? I think they know exactly how it cuts in comparison.
> Can't you just see the guys at Mid-Atlantic Stihl scratching their heads wondering where on earth they could find a 460 to test? LOL!
> I would be very surprised if the 441 outcut the 440 in a race through a 20" log. I'm sure it's close, but they wouldn't make a new saw that messed up the orfer of things. They just needed to beat the 575 by a hair.



Mike take it for what it is, merely a saw going through a log. They weren't using stop watches and no they don't have tons of saws sitting around to go play with, I know, I've been there. The place isn't a testing area, its a distributor. They don't unbox brand new saws to go play. The 441's were given to them to demo around the dealers. Thats how they get to use them. They don't demo saws that have been around for years.

What is it your referring to that is messed up on the saw??

As for the 441 yes you would be surprised because I myself have run the 440
and the 441. Close is a understatemet, the 441 feels like silk compared to the 440 and it will out cut it as well. Take that not as a grain of salt, take it as fact because thats what it is..


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 25, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> Lake the 441 isn't at my local dealer.
> 
> It's my use of Stihl saws.......and their improving power to weight ratios over the years that has me concerned about the step backwards in power to weight ratio the 441 brings to the table.




I believe you've said that a few dozen times already. You'll get over it. 12 ounces is less then the weight of the gas/oil in the saw. Big deal. There's more to a 441 than just a 440 with more weight.

You need to see the glass as half full... and if you can't and you think Stihl is heading in the wrong direction, go buy Husky or Dolmar, or buy up all the "old" 440 saws you can afford.

Ask your dealer to get Stihl to drop off a demo saw. Take it away and abuse it.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 25, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> Smooth, nice feel, fast cut, but what can I tell in an 18 inch log with a brand new saw, and the customer watching!!!! The first two guys who bought I just had to watch them!
> 
> There's one in my future... maybe sooner than later. Yeah, and I really need another saw.
> 
> ...



Sounds honest to me. I put mine in a log that buried the bar, the saw kept on talking, the power band is different than the 440. The 441 seems to keep on going where as the 440 slows when pulling a full chain of chips. The 440 going into the cut fast and slowing in the middle is where the 441 beats the 440. It doesn't slow in the middle of the cut nearly as much as the 440. That being said give me, no wait, hell, done got it, a 441,lol


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 25, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> I think it's great the new saws are as good as they are too. The push in this thread has been about how much better the new saws are.....and emissions hasn't even been a part of the discussion. This is why I'm calling BS.
> 
> I'm running Mobil Racing 2T mixed at 40/1 and if emissions were my main concern I wouldn't be.




"BETTER" isn't just about WEIGHT. It "works" better. Get one in your hand before you call BS on anything.. All you ever ?????ed about is the weight. Hey, maybe there a few positives as well?

Sheez, I'm sure glad they didn't change the color as well!


----------



## coveredinsap (Aug 25, 2006)

I love the way 3/4 of a pound get's turned into a "few ounces". Put something in your pocket that weighs 3/4 lb and walk around with it for a day. Eat 3/4 lb of meat (after cooking) and let me know how you feel afterwards.

An ounce or two is "a few ounces". 3/4 lb is closer to 1 pound than it is "a few ounces" LOL!

Spin away Stihl fanboys!


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 25, 2006)

coveredinsap said:


> I love the way 3/4 of a pound get's turned into a "few ounces". Put something in your pocket that weighs 3/4 lb and walk around with it for a day. Eat 3/4 lb of meat (after cooking) and let me know how you feel afterwards.
> 
> An ounce or two is "a few ounces". 3/4 lb is closer to 1 pound than it is "a few ounces" LOL!
> 
> Spin away Stihl fanboys!



Sap I heard you can handle a few ounces pretty good,hehe


----------



## Urbicide (Aug 25, 2006)

Lakeside53 12 ounces is less then the weight of the gas/oil in the saw. Big deal. [/QUOTE said:


> 12 oz = 1 beer. Unless, of course, it is a lite beer.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 25, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> Actually Lake I hope Stihl makes improvements in the new saw designs that result in an improved power to weight ratio. The 441 isn't it. If it were the word 'smooth' would not keep coming up.
> 
> As my local dealer has a hard time even ordering chain parts I doubt I'd have any luck getting out of there with a 'demo saw'. I will ask though. Does Stihl require dealers to lend out demo saws?




There you go again, in your head it's all about weight. BFD. Remember my post about 34/36, 24/26.. 29/39 etc etc - that power and price are related... and always have been in the Stihl line - maybe you should just wait for the 461. Then you won't be able to complain.


No they don't require the dealers to provide demos, but the dealer can ask the local Stihl sales guy for one. Your dealer (if he's a CSS) can also get a 441 for a cheaper price if he agrees to allow it to be demo'ed.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 25, 2006)

coveredinsap said:


> I love the way 3/4 of a pound get's turned into a "few ounces". Put something in your pocket that weighs 3/4 lb and walk around with it for a day. Eat 3/4 lb of meat (after cooking) and let me know how you feel afterwards.
> 
> An ounce or two is "a few ounces". 3/4 lb is closer to 1 pound than it is "a few ounces" LOL!
> 
> Spin away Stihl fanboys!




All from a guy that likes Mac250 and a Remington ololol Hey Sap - go buy a 575. I'm sure you'll love it - it's not Stihl, and 'cos you think its great, weight won't matter.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 25, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> Thall how about prices?
> 
> Got a phone number? I'll give you a call at work Monday.



Tree hold on a second, loading my guns,lol, give me a minute, we'll talk..


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 25, 2006)

Mike Maas said:


> A surprising effect of low emissions is great gas mileage!




Treeco runs his empty to keep the weight down!


----------



## Kneejerk Bombas (Aug 25, 2006)

coveredinsap said:


> I love the way 3/4 of a pound get's turned into a "few ounces". Put something in your pocket that weighs 3/4 lb and walk around with it for a day. Eat 3/4 lb of meat (after cooking) and let me know how you feel afterwards.
> 
> An ounce or two is "a few ounces". 3/4 lb is closer to 1 pound than it is "a few ounces" LOL!
> 
> Spin away Stihl fanboys!



Only a guy that carries a saw around all day really understands how important a few ounces make. To say otherwise, shows a complete lack of understanding on the subject.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 25, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> It is too a BFD. It's been a main thrust at Stihl for decades. It's only not a BFD because EPA regulations have forced a step backwards.
> 
> I understand your loyalty to Stihl. Negative comments on your part could hurt business long term. For me that isn't so.




HA - I give a damn if the saws sell or not. Not my department! If I thought it was a big deal, I'd say so...

Funny thing is, they do sell, and really well... even the over-weight 290's - real well... oooooohhhh a "negative comment"!.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 25, 2006)

Mike Maas said:


> You've eluded to the 461 several times now. Is it really going to be the best?




I've heard "rumors" that it's on the same crankcase as the 441... but you won't see it for another year. That's why it fits in the line-up like the older 036/36, 29/39 etc etc., and the current MS341/361 (341 not in the USA) , MS650/660etc


----------



## 04ultra (Aug 25, 2006)

10 more


----------



## Lakeside53 (Aug 25, 2006)

O.k. everyone, we need a bet on WHO WILL BE 1000? 


I bet on Ultra... the sneaky devil...


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 25, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> O.k. everyone, we need a bet on WHO WILL BE 1000?
> 
> 
> I bet on Ultra... the sneaky devil...



I'll be dayumm, I started this dayumm mess, ooooooops, I mean wonderfull thread and I shall end it,


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 25, 2006)

*Tree,Sap*

Yaw better get me while ya can, I'm retiring from AS at post 1000, hit me with your best shots.................


----------



## ShoerFast (Aug 25, 2006)

Mike Maas said:


> Emissions are a big part of saw use, because it determines how often you have to stop working, move to a gas and oil tank, fill your saw, get back to where you were, and restart.
> I love the modified saw, but filling up is a PITA.
> A surprising effect of low emissions is great gas mileage!



Yes, that is the target.

Remember what a POS the vehicles were in the early 80's ?

Nobody ever bragged up the cars or lt trucks then, look at what we have now, 100,000 miles before a tune up, great millage, or some floor-board if you want to stuff it, it was a long struggle, and just for the big brown clouds in big inner-city congested areas, maybe it was worth it?

Yes I'm a Shihl "fanboy" , ex-dealer even, and to hear so many good reviews on Stihl's first major EPA make-over, to have any derogatory statements may tend some toward an adjustment to there medication?

Lake THall, and all, thanks for taking the time for a favorable review it is nice to know that I made the right choice when I needed to clean out the crouch and shake the dryer to buy into the Shihl family franchise over 25 years ago!


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 25, 2006)

ShoerFast said:


> Yes, that is the target.
> 
> Remember what a POS the vehicles were in the early 80's ?
> 
> ...



Great post Shoer. I was thinking that all along. Years ago the guys would throw cams in the old 350's and go out and race on week ends. Today a stock V6 with all the new stuff will blow those old cars away with ease. Everything new is not bad. There is a old saying that goes like this:
"There is nothing more constant than change"
Its never ending and those who fight it will lose in the end. The old stuff will wear out and then the change will have to be accepted. I for take change will a smile. Its called life..


----------



## Just Mow (Aug 25, 2006)

I think since Thall started it we should let him do the honors.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 25, 2006)

Just Mow said:


> I think since Thall started it we should let him do the honors.



I agree,lol. Hows that 441 running Mow??


----------



## Rspike (Aug 25, 2006)

2 more Plezzzzzzzzze let it die !


----------



## Just Mow (Aug 25, 2006)

well my hands dont tingle. And yours


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 25, 2006)

Just Mow said:


> well my hands dont tingle. And yours




TIS 1000,DONE, BEEN FUN GUYS


----------



## aggiewoodbutchr (Aug 26, 2006)

THALL10326 said:



> Great post Shoer. I was thinking that all along. Years ago the guys would throw cams in the old 350's and go out and race on week ends. Today a stock V6 with all the new stuff will blow those old cars away with ease. Everything new is not bad. There is a old saying that goes like this:
> "There is nothing more constant than change"
> Its never ending and those who fight it will lose in the end. The old stuff will wear out and then the change will have to be accepted. I for take change will a smile. Its called life..



So true. It was the American auto makers resistance to change in the 80's that has them in the shape they are still in today, unfortunately. The Japanese didn't resist; and the rest is history.


----------



## Kneejerk Bombas (Aug 26, 2006)

I'm post 1000.


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 26, 2006)

Mike Maas said:


> I'm post 1000.



LOLOL, my last slick one,good job Mike, you got the magic 1000,   

Keep them guys straight Mike. Lake we got e-mail so were cool ole buddy. Ultra we got the phones so were cool too. Rest of all its been great. Tree look back through this thread and you'll find the number to the shop stamped on top the 441 pic I posted. Catch ya laters,


----------



## aggiewoodbutchr (Aug 26, 2006)

Something fishy is going on here....


----------



## Urbicide (Aug 26, 2006)

Congratulations Thall.  You are now an AS record holder. Is it true that in the thrill of it all that you are going to give away a brand new 441 Magnum? Tell us how we can enter o'l buddy! 

Hey, why not really spice it up and throw in a 200T with it! :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## THALL10326 (Aug 26, 2006)

Urbicide said:


> Congratulations Thall.  You are now an AS record holder. Is it true that in the thrill of it all that you are going to give away a brand new 441 Magnum? Tell us how we can enter o'l buddy!
> 
> Hey, why not really spice it up and throw in a 200T with it! :hmm3grin2orange:



Awwwwwwwwww I just can't resist. URB if I could I would give everyone on the site a new saw, I really would. Too bad I can't though, durn it. I'm retiring now and going to go back to doing what I do best, sell saws. This site is addictive and can make a man almost cling to it. It has me I admit, and like smoking, its time to kick the habit. I've had a great time on here but spent entirely too much time on here as well. Has been great though. In a couple days, maybe hours,lol, I'll be forgotton but I'll remember this place for a long time. Been fun must admit. Here's a high five to everyone I've had fun with and fought with as well.   Niters, yaw be good, don't make THE GREATEST come back and point my finger at ya,:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## RaisedByWolves (Aug 26, 2006)

Lets here what sap has to say.....


----------



## RaisedByWolves (Aug 26, 2006)

This is taking an awefull long time sap, I hope its good.


----------



## fishhuntcutwood (Aug 26, 2006)

I'm on the road for less than three days, and this thing has grown by 25 pages. I'm lost again.  

Oh well. Carry on....


----------



## RaisedByWolves (Aug 26, 2006)

Looks like sap had a brainfart.


----------



## manual (Aug 26, 2006)




----------



## BlueRidgeMark (Aug 26, 2006)

RaisedByWolves said:


> Looks like sap had a brainfart.






Hmmmm. Now, in the interest of science, just how would one measure that?

What would be the indicator? I mean, how would it be different than normal?



BTW, look at the post numbers, folks. Looks to me like Tom did NOT get #1,000. aggiewoodbutchr's post is #1,000 on my computer.

What's the deal?


----------



## aggiewoodbutchr (Aug 26, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> I thought this stuff was your forte?
> 
> It could be that the earth has shifted on it's axis from the increased weight of the 441.
> 
> Or maybe someone deleted a post or two shifting the post numbers.




This is what I ment last night by fishy. First, Thall was 1000 and I was 1001. Then a few minutes later Thall was 998 and Urbicide was 1000. Now I'm 1000. I think we got a Gremlin.


----------



## coveredinsap (Aug 26, 2006)

OK, now that Thall has 'retired' with his precious 1000 post thread record intact, I can comment.

This thread's 'record' is bogus. Much like the Bernie Mac character in the movie 'Mr 3000' who finds out that his 3000 hit batting record is padded with hits that don't count, this thread's purported 'record' is padded with numerous bogus posts by people posting nothing other than a number (or equivalent) in an attempt to run up the numbers....as opposed to a real post consisting of a comment or observation from an individual, followed by a similar comment or observation, and so on, and so on, and so on.
A 'record' most definitely does _not_ include posts made consisting of nothing more than '1', '2', '3', '4', '5', '6'.....(or equivalent) simply done in order to run up the post count in an illegitimate manner.

To summarize....this thread is bogus, the post count is bogus, the posters who ran up the numbers are bogus....this whole damn thing is bogus. (Oh, and the Stihl 441 saw is bogus too.)

LOL! Have a nice day!


----------



## ShoerFast (Aug 26, 2006)

coveredinsap said:


> OK, now that Thall has 'retired' with his precious 1000 post thread record intact, I can comment.
> 
> This thread's 'record' is bogus. Much like the Bernie Mac character in the movie 'Mr 3000', the purported 'record' is padded with numerous bogus posts by people posting nothing other than a number (or equivalent) in an attempt to run up the numbers....as opposed to a real post consisting of a comment or observation from an individual, followed by a similar comment or observation, and so on, and so on, and so on.
> A 'record' most definitely does _not_ include posts made consisting of nothing more than '1', '2', '3', '4', '5', '6'.....(or equivalent) simply done in order to run up the post count in an illegitimate manner.
> ...



And if I may? This post is bogus!

What would you call a bogas post about bogas post?


----------



## belgian (Aug 26, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> This site is addictive and can make a man almost cling to it. It has me I admit, and like smoking, its time to kick the habit. I've had a great time on here but spent entirely too much time on here as well. Has been great though. In a couple days, maybe hours,lol, I'll be forgotton but I'll remember this place for a long time. Been fun must admit. Here's a high five to everyone I've had fun with and fought with as well.



Thall, nice way to end this thread. Me too I have spent too many hours on AS these last weeks. The latest talk however on here involved endless, often useless discussions, unexpected plots, intrigues and involving some pretty weird characters. It unfolded itself like a bad TV soap. Funny indeed, quite addictive, but absolutely worthless.
Indeed time to focus back on real life. I too need a break from AS.
High five to you too 
Roland


----------



## Just Mow (Aug 26, 2006)

Alpina, is that a snow ski :deadhorse: ?   :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## bwalker (Aug 26, 2006)

There is a report on the other site of a 372 out cutting(in actual wood) a 441 by a substantial margin. opcorn:


----------



## stihlatit (Aug 26, 2006)

bwalker said:


> There is a report on the other site of a 372 out cutting(in actual wood) a 441 by a substantial margin. opcorn:



Wow what a difference in words from what I read on the other site Ben. You say substantial margin and those words are not in the context of that post what was said, here is what was said.

>>>>> "It was not a huge margin however noticeable".


You also left out this part about the 441 probably out of convenience.

" It was silky smooth, the anti-vibe worked great. It feels like it centers all of the weight right under the hand on the handle bar".

The person also posted that in his opinion the 441 felt like a sedan and the 372 like a sportscar.

If the cutting difference is that close and I am going to use the saw all day I think I will opt for the comfort of the luxury sedan.

You seem to post with a bias against Stihl Ben cause you by your own words did not call this one as you saw it.

I edited this to add the word luxury.


----------



## bwalker (Aug 26, 2006)

Arnie, by substanial I ment noticable.Nothing more, nothign less. Read into it what you will, but as I said before I am not biased one way or the other as I have owned oth and have actually owned more Stihl products than Husky.
The Husky 372 has great balance and is smooth as butter too. Has been for 10 years or so.
BTW I will take a Ferrari over a Buick Roadmaster any day of the week, of course I am not over 50!


----------



## bwalker (Aug 26, 2006)

Here is the actual post...




> stopped by my dealers this morning. He gave me a call last night and said he got his first 441's in. His son and I go way back, swap saws, etc. Anyhow we took a brand new 441, and a 372 which he just put a brand new piston and cylinder on last night, other than that bone stock. He has a big pine test log out by the shop. We ran both saws side by side both had 20" bars and Stihl chain. The 372 would consistently walk away from the 441. It was not a huge margin however noticeable. My impressions of the saw were that it didn't really have much of a peak to the power. You were either in the power band of out of it. It didn't seem to peak out like the 372. It was silky smooth, the anti-vibe worked great. It feels like it centers all of the weight right under the hand on the handle bar. I knocked some limbs off the the log and the saw seemed to balance very well tossing it about. I guess if I had to sum it up it felt like a luxury sedan, and the 372 felt like a sports car. Just my opinion.
> __________________


----------



## stihlatit (Aug 26, 2006)

bwalker said:


> Arnie, by substanial I ment noticable.Nothing more, nothign less. Read into it what you will, but as I said before I am not biased one way or the other as I have owned oth and have actually owned more Stihl products than Husky.



I read nothing into it at all but going by the dictionary there is a vast difference in your choice of a synonym. I am glad to see that you have posted the actual post now, so all can see what you were trying to do. I thought it was underhanded Ben and I am glad I called you on it.


----------



## manual (Aug 26, 2006)

Oh give me a break this whole thread started out Bias.


----------



## stihlatit (Aug 26, 2006)

manual said:


> Oh give me a break this whole thread started out Bias.



read the difference in words Manual from the original post. Thx.


----------



## bwalker (Aug 26, 2006)

> I thought it was underhanded Ben and I am glad I called you on it.


 Quit being so paranoid. There is no anti Stihl conspiracy.......
"it starts when your always afraid...man comes, going to take you away." :rockn:


----------



## stihlatit (Aug 26, 2006)

bwalker said:


> Quit being so paranoid. There is no anti Stihl conspiracy.......
> "it starts when your always afraid...man comes, going to take you away." :rockn:



Wow exposure brings out the paranoia syndrome. This is not even about Stihl in my opinion. It is about your choice of word change and deletion to give a false impression. Do you do that with all your so called research Ben?


----------



## manual (Aug 26, 2006)

stihlatit said:


> read the difference in words Manual from the original post. Thx.


I see what you mean.

Substantial, Meaning significantly great, as in earned a substantial Raise 

Ben, Be careful what you say.


----------



## bwalker (Aug 26, 2006)

The 372 beat the 441 according to this report. I'll leave it at that.


----------



## stihlatit (Aug 26, 2006)

Hired Gun just posted his experience with the 441 and 372 on this site. The url is below. Post#5

http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=36112


----------



## manual (Aug 26, 2006)

bwalker said:


> The 372 beat the 441 according to this report. I'll leave it at that.


 Cool beans, All this hype about the 441. turns out to be all show and no go.


----------



## stihlatit (Aug 26, 2006)

manual said:


> Cool beans, All this hype about the 441. turns out to be all show and no go.



I would sacrifice a split second of a cut for comfort through the day but am also willing to listen to a lot more feed back on this saw before I bought one, as well as keep an open mind.


----------



## BlueRidgeMark (Aug 26, 2006)

stihlatit said:


> I ... am also willing to listen to a lot more feed back on this saw before I bought one, as well as keep an open mind.




Well, you have no business in _this_ thread, then! 


:biggrinbounce2:


----------



## sawinredneck (Aug 26, 2006)

manual said:


> Cool beans, All this hype about the 441. turns out to be all show and no go.




Not really true, I get what you are saying, the 372 seems like THE SAW, I understand that, wouldn't mind one myself!!! But thats apples and oranges, how long will they be around? Now, if we compare it's replacement, the 575 to the 441, what happens then? Just curious, thats all.
I WILL NOT badmouth the 372, and am not meaning to now!!!!
Andy


----------



## stihlatit (Aug 26, 2006)

BlueRidgeMark said:


> Well, you have no business in _this_ thread, then!
> 
> 
> :biggrinbounce2:



This makes sense.....Wow.

Love to stay and play boys butI am off to the football game. C U later.


----------



## manual (Aug 26, 2006)

sawinredneck said:


> Not really true, I get what you are saying, the 372 seems like THE SAW, I understand that, wouldn't mind one myself!!! But thats apples and oranges, how long will they be around? Now, if we compare it's replacement, the 575 to the 441, what happens then? Just curious, thats all.
> I WILL NOT badmouth the 372, and am not meaning to now!!!!
> Andy


 With you all the way Andy I have asked the same thing.
The 441 is no match for the 372. Bring on the 575xp.


----------



## manual (Aug 26, 2006)

stihlatit said:


> I would sacrifice a split second of a cut for comfort through the day but am also willing to listen to a lot more feed back on this saw before I bought one, as well as keep an open mind.


 Understand. Took me years before I bought my Ultra Glide.
Now I am waiting to hear from both sides.
Other than my new sthil Blah Blah Blah.


----------



## coveredinsap (Aug 26, 2006)

stihlatit said:


> I read nothing into it at all but going by the dictionary there is a vast difference in your choice of a synonym. I am glad to see that you have posted the actual post now, so all can see what you were trying to do. I thought it was underhanded Ben and I am glad I called you on it.



Here's the Stihl fanboy whining again. In the original post, the term "walked away from" generally connotates a meaning more than just "noticeable". It most definitely is closer to "substantial" in meaning.

If you and I are having a foot race, and I "walked away from" you with the victory....that means I kicked your arse. It certainly doesn't mean it was only "noticeable" or barely a victory.....you got your arse kicked, i.e "walked away from". Jeez Louise, will the whining from the Stihl fanboys never cease?


----------



## aggiewoodbutchr (Aug 26, 2006)

coveredinsap said:


> Here's the Stihl fanboy whining again. In the original post, the term "walked away from" generally connotates a meaning more than just "noticeable". It most definitely is closer to "substantial" in meaning.
> 
> If you and I are having a foot race, and I "walked away from" you with the victory....that means I kicked your arse. It certainly doesn't mean it was only "noticeable" or barely a victory.....you got your arse kicked, i.e "walked away from". Jeez Louise, will the whining from the Stihl fanboys never cease?




Whining? Ain't that the pot calling the kettle black...


----------



## cord arrow (Aug 26, 2006)

hey, it's been over an hour, get with it.


----------



## bwalker (Aug 26, 2006)

The 575 is a sows ear. I MIGHT take a 441 over it, but I would take a 372 over both. They will continue to make 372's for the Canadian market for some time and I work in Canada. As a result I dont have to settle for something that doesnt perform like the model it replaced. Some of you do not have that option.
Arnie, I might remind you that the 372 is smooth as silk as well. You would love the antivibe after running the stihls you have. They have been like this for years......


----------



## manual (Aug 26, 2006)

coveredinsap said:


> Here's the Stihl fanboy whining again. In the original post, the term "walked away from" generally connotates a meaning more than just "noticeable". It most definitely is closer to "substantial" in meaning.
> 
> If you and I are having a foot race, and I "walked away from" you with the victory....that means I kicked your arse. It certainly doesn't mean it was only "noticeable" or barely a victory.....you got your arse kicked, i.e "walked away from". Jeez Louise, will the whining from the Stihl fanboys never cease?



Sap you are so wrong. 
It is not the Sthil Fan boys Whinning thats the sound of there saws. The ringing sound in the back ground is only the clutch springs. 
Ask them why and you get told "They all Do that, It's ok".
They don't know what a victory is when they become the losers.


----------



## spike60 (Aug 27, 2006)

bwalker said:


> The 575 is a sows ear. I MIGHT take a 441 over it, but I would take a 372 over both. They will continue to make 372's for the Canadian market for some time and I work in Canada. As a result I dont have to settle for something that doesnt perform like the model it replaced. Some of you do not have that option.
> Arnie, I might remind you that the 372 is smooth as silk as well. You would love the antivibe after running the stihls you have. They have been like this for years......




Well I missed that last 400 or 500 posts here; and no I ain't gonna go back and read them all. But Ben here gave me an idea. Obviously there is no way to prove which saw is best since we can only give our own opinions here. And after 1000 posts, it doesn't look like anyone has convinced anyone else to change his mind.

But we can "prove" which saw is most popular and the favorite among AS members. So, there are 4 saws on the table, same price, and you have to pick just ONE.

372/2171---575---440---441

Make mine red, I'll take the 2171. (which is still available at any Jonsered dealer for anyone who can't find a 372)


----------



## stihlatit (Aug 27, 2006)

bwalker said:


> The 575 is a sows ear. I MIGHT take a 441 over it, but I would take a 372 over both. They will continue to make 372's for the Canadian market for some time and I work in Canada. As a result I dont have to settle for something that doesnt perform like the model it replaced. Some of you do not have that option.
> Arnie, I might remind you that the 372 is smooth as silk as well. You would love the antivibe after running the stihls you have. They have been like this for years......



But it seems that the reports are coming in that the weightis better centered as well as being a smoother saw. Maybe you should test one Ben....at least then you will know for sure.


----------



## SawTroll (Aug 28, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> Stihl has pushed increased power to weight ration as a positive for at least the past 20 years. I remember Stihl advertisements of the 036 when it came out as the most hp per pound in their whole line up.
> 
> As an owner and user of 12 Stihl saws it's sad the see Stihl taking a step backwards with their new EPA 441.
> 
> ...


*A very good post, that is a fitting conclution to this tread.*

I am back now after tree days at the woodlot in nice weather, and this will be my last post in this tread.


----------



## spike60 (Aug 28, 2006)

I also agree with Dan's post, except that unfortunately, the "step backwards" is actually a step forward in the sense that this is where it's all headed. Eventually all saws will have to be compliant and they will probably all gain weight in the process. 

Instead of looking forward to the new model, we'll be grabbing the old one while we still can. Years from now, we will be posting about the good ole days of the pure 2-cycles. Maybe it won't be as bad as we are making it out to be. My 575xp customers are all very happy, despite the added weight.

The other thing to watch will be how the new regs affect the cheap saws in the discount stores. They barely run as it is. And, there is no way to add any of this technology without increasing cost.


----------



## formersawrep (Aug 28, 2006)

Everyone should definitely stock up on the old "proven" models before this new "junk" becomes all you can get!!

I say the above completely tongue in cheek. That is exactly what happened when gas tanks went from magnesium to polymer. That new "plastic" was "junk". What were the chainsaw manufacturers thinking? 

A disclaimer before I write what is next - I have not run a 441 and don't have an opinion on it, yet.

It is not completely about power / cutting speed. Pioneer made some of the most powerful saws of their time - P42 HP, etc. They did not sell well because they were a tank. I am sure someone will add their thought that XXX new model is both heavier and less power, etc. My statement above is meant to be more general in nature.


----------



## manual (Aug 28, 2006)

formersawrep said:


> Everyone should definitely stock up on the old "proven" models before this new "junk" becomes all you can get!!
> 
> I say the above completely tongue in cheek. That is exactly what happened when gas tanks went from magnesium to polymer. That new "plastic" was "junk". What were the chainsaw manufacturers thinking?
> 
> ...


 
I understand what you are saying and right now the producers of saws are saying this is the best we can do.
My guess is they will do better just as soon as they get there money out of this stage.


----------



## rahtreelimbs (Sep 1, 2006)

I picked up a 441 two weeks ago. The saw is as good as everyone claims. Weight difference......no biggie to me!


I didn't run the saw stock. The muffler is just a can and is easily modded. The deflector is quite big and allows for the stock opening to be enlarged quite abit!


The 441 is quite quick in the cut and the anti-vibe is first rate, Stihl hit the mark on this saw!


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 1, 2006)

rahtreelimbs said:


> I picked up a 441 two weeks ago. The saw is as good as everyone claims. Weight difference......no biggie to me!
> 
> 
> I didn't run the saw stock. The muffler is just a can and is easily modded. The deflector is quite big and allows for the stock opening to be enlarged quite abit!
> ...



Have you got a pic of it??


----------



## rahtreelimbs (Sep 1, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Have you got a pic of it??




Give me a min.


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 1, 2006)

rahtreelimbs said:


> Give me a min.



Cool, I can't wait to see it.


----------



## rahtreelimbs (Sep 1, 2006)

Here you go. The original screen rides in a track. The screen has a hole roughly 5/16" X 1". Using a small cutoff wheel (dremel size) you can cut the new port ( roughly 3/4" ) and get in to remove the screen track/holder. The original screen screw is then used to hold the new screen in place. I saw no need to go to a dual-port setup. I wanted to see how a strato saw responded to a muffler mod be fore going any further!


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 1, 2006)

*nice*

Nice looking job on the muffler, real nice. I sold a 441 this evening. The man looked at the 440 and 441 and asked which is the smoother of the two, I said the 441, he said thats the one I want. No fear of him being dissatisfied if he wanted a smooth saw. He got one....


----------



## rahtreelimbs (Sep 1, 2006)

It is a real easy mod! The saw was set at 12'800 rpm at the dealer. I haven't checked it since the mod though. 

*BTW, anyone interested in the outside bucking spike on the 441 I posted my finding on the 441 spike thread.*


----------



## rahtreelimbs (Sep 1, 2006)

The 441 cost $719 out the door with a 20" bar.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 1, 2006)

rahtreelimbs said:


> It is a real easy mod! The saw was set at 12'800 rpm at the dealer. I haven't checked it since the mod though.




You'd be wise to check it... Consider modifying the air box also... As a test, just run the saw without the cover and see if you can notice any difference.


----------



## rahtreelimbs (Sep 1, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> You'd be wise to check it... Consider modifying the air box also... As a test, just run the saw without the cover and see if you can notice any difference.



Hey Andy, 

When I ran the saw after the mod it was 4 stroking nicely. I will still check it though. 

Any suggestions on the air box mod?


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 1, 2006)

rahtreelimbs said:


> The 441 cost $719 out the door with a 20" bar.



Thats a good price, below list.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 1, 2006)

rahtreelimbs said:


> Hey Andy,
> 
> When I ran the saw after the mod it was 4 stroking nicely. I will still check it though.
> 
> Any suggestions on the air box mod?




4 stroking or not you still have to see if you are exceeding the max RPM. What if it's running at 15k? It might be o.k. though. Your dealer set it very conservatively. It will increase 500 or so as the rings bed in anyhow.

No suggestons... But just see if you think it's worthwhile by taking it off. Then you'll know if you need to ventiltate it a little.. Down side is that you'll get the filter dirtier!


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 1, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Thats a good price, below list.




Ha! not everyone sells to the pro customers at list!:monkey:


----------



## Kneejerk Bombas (Sep 1, 2006)

What's the point of changing the porting of a saw without checking the change in performance???? (a muffler is a port)


----------



## rahtreelimbs (Sep 1, 2006)

Mike Maas said:


> What's the point of changing the porting of a saw without checking the change in performance???? (a muffler is a port)




When a saw is exhausting thru a 3/8" hole anything bigger is bound to be an improvement. Who cares about percentages anyway!


----------



## Kneejerk Bombas (Sep 1, 2006)

It's strato-charged! It has tons of air!


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 1, 2006)

rahtreelimbs said:


> When a saw is exhausting thru a 3/8" hole anything bigger is bound to be an improvement. Who cares about percentages anyway!




If you get it too big on the 441 it will be louder, but cut slower. The stratocharged saw needs an more conservative approach. "Sneak up on it" when porting... And check your Max rpm..


----------



## rahtreelimbs (Sep 1, 2006)

Mike Maas said:


> It's strato-charged! It has tons of air!



Exactly!


----------



## rahtreelimbs (Sep 1, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> If you get it too big on the 441 it will be louder, but cut slower. The stratocharges saw needs an more conservative approach. "Sneak up on it" when porting...




That is why I went with one port.


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 1, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> Ha! not everyone sells to the pro customers at list!:monkey:



lolol, I try to get 20.00 over list,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 1, 2006)

rahtreelimbs said:


> That is why I went with one port.


The "number" of ports is misleading... Generally all that matters is the area. You can over do it on any saw with just one big hole.


----------



## Kneejerk Bombas (Sep 1, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> If you get it too big on the 441 it will be louder, but cut slower. The stratocharged saw needs an more conservative approach. "Sneak up on it" when porting... And check your Max rpm..


No, you sneak up behind it, like in jail. Closing off the strato-air intake is the place to start. But then you lose mileage and environmental benefits. Then open th exhaust.


----------



## 04ultra (Sep 1, 2006)

2000 +


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 1, 2006)

04ultra said:


> 2000 +



Who would ever think one ole saw could stir so much comotion,lol. Gotta wonder who really reads this thread, ooooooops, threads, know what I mean Ultra? When you make your trip they will know you when you arrive, hmmmm


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 1, 2006)

Here's Ultra on his new Harley : 








Not the best gas mileage though....


----------



## 04ultra (Sep 1, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> Here's Ultra on his new Harley :
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Bet that bugger get hot when stuck in traffic..


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 1, 2006)

*Strato charged?*

lolol


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 1, 2006)

04ultra said:


> Bet that bugger get hot when stuck in traffic..




Why? It probably only needs to idle to get to 100mph! 

here's the version with better cooling... just for you...








Maybe an illusion, but I don't see too much clearance on those bottom covers!


----------



## 04ultra (Sep 1, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> Maybe an illusion, but I don't see too much clearnance on those bottom covers!





Hit a stone on the road and you loose a cylinder...


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 1, 2006)

04ultra said:


> Hit a stone on the road and you loose a cylinder...




Got plenty of others!:rockn:


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 1, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> Why? It probably only needs to idle to get to 100mph!
> 
> here's the version with better cooling... just for you...
> 
> ...



I think I'll pass on the second bike, its looks 8-12ounces heavier than the
first one,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 1, 2006)

*Also*

It will probly run lean and overheat, I forsee problems down the road with that model, :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 1, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> I think I'll pass on the second bike, its looks 8-12ounces heavier than the
> first one,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:




But it's SMOOTHER!


----------



## 04ultra (Sep 1, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> But it's SMOOTHER!




Ya think....:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 1, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> But it's SMOOTHER!



I heard smooth doesn't count for anything, A PRO told me so,hahahaha, its all about weight, not the ride,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## rahtreelimbs (Sep 1, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> its all about weight, not the ride,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:



Tom, you apply that line of thinking to your women???:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## 04ultra (Sep 2, 2006)

rahtreelimbs said:


> Tom, you apply that line of thinking to your women???:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:





LOL ...:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 2, 2006)

rahtreelimbs said:


> Tom, you apply that line of thinking to your women???:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:



lolololol, let me go ask the Pro who told me its all about weight and I'll get back to ya Limb,lolololololol


----------



## rahtreelimbs (Sep 2, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> I heard smooth doesn't count for anything,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:



You like the veins Tom??? :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 2, 2006)

*Limb*

I just called the Pro and he said yup, its all about wieght, now you know why he and me don't agree,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## sawinredneck (Sep 2, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> I just called the Pro and he said yup, its all about wieght, now you know why he and me don't agree,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:




AAAWWWW..... Heck, a little more wieght just "cushions" the ride a bit:deadhorse: 
Andy


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 2, 2006)

rahtreelimbs said:


> You like the veins Tom??? :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:



  ,lolololololol, shoot no, give me that velvet smooth, mymymymymymymymymymy,lolololol


----------



## rahtreelimbs (Sep 2, 2006)

Just think Tom, if you are a little pussie on using big dawgs........then.........no interjection is needed!!!:jawdrop:


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 2, 2006)

rahtreelimbs said:


> Just think Tom, if you are a little pussie on using big dawgs........then.........no interjection is needed!!!:jawdrop:




I saw that too and thought huh. I know everyone has a preferance but most of the saws I sell are to yuppies around here, they don't care about the big spikes or dogs as most call them. The few tree outfits I sell to all want the big spikes on all their saws. I've ordered dozen's of them.


----------



## rahtreelimbs (Sep 2, 2006)

Mike Maas said:


> No, you sneak up behind it, like in jail.




No need to share this Mike!!!


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 2, 2006)

*Welp*

I'm gonna get the "crane" out and set this 441 of mine back in the shed, hope the cable doesn't break, and call it a nite. Been fun Limb. Keep me up to date on your modding that 441. 
Niters. See you fellows tomorrow. Final note Limb, its all about the wieght, you got that, all about the weight,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 2, 2006)

sawinredneck said:


> AAAWWWW..... Heck, a little more wieght just "cushions" the ride a bit:deadhorse:
> Andy



hahaha, Andy. That post reminds me of guy and his son fishing one day, true story. They were on the river bank and about 100yds away was a couple fishing too, a heavy couple. They were side by side and kissing every once in awhile. The boy told his pop ewwwwwww look at those fat people down there kissing. His pop said well now son fat people need lovin too,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Kneejerk Bombas (Sep 2, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> Why? It probably only needs to idle to get to 100mph!
> 
> here's the version with better cooling... just for you...
> 
> ...


Does this mean there's an airplane out there somewhere with a Harley motor?


----------



## BlueRidgeMark (Sep 2, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> But it's SMOOTHER!




Well, how you YOU know? Did you actually run, uh, I man, _*ride*_ one? Or did you just idle it in the parking lot?

:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## BlueRidgeMark (Sep 2, 2006)

Mike Maas said:


> Does this mean there's an airplane out there somewhere with a Harley motor?




Oh, NO, Mr. Bill! Let's hope not!


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 2, 2006)

Mike Maas said:


> Does this mean there's an airplane out there somewhere with a Harley motor?




LOL, good one. More than likely it means theres a airplane at some airport missing a engine, the airport Ultra last visited......


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 2, 2006)

BlueRidgeMark said:


> Well, how you YOU know? Did you actually run, uh, I man, _*ride*_ one? Or did you just idle it in the parking lot?
> 
> :hmm3grin2orange:



hahahahaha, even if he didn't he knows all about it, sound familer?:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: 

Mark, BTW, now that I took care of your cedit in speedy fashion we expect you to stop by more often, ya hears..............


----------



## BlueRidgeMark (Sep 2, 2006)

rahtreelimbs said:


> Tom, you apply that line of thinking to your women???













:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 2, 2006)

BlueRidgeMark said:


> :hmm3grin2orange:




In the dark of nite where secrets are kept some things have no conscience,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Kneejerk Bombas (Sep 2, 2006)

Like riding a moped, fun, but you don't want your friends to see.


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 2, 2006)

Mike Maas said:


> Like riding a moped, fun, but you don't want your friends to see.



  YUP


----------



## GASoline71 (Sep 2, 2006)

"Fat girls need love too... but hey, they gotta pay!" Glenn Quagmire (from the Family Guy)   

Gary


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 2, 2006)

GASoline71 said:


> "Fat girls need love too... but hey, they gotta pay!" Glenn Quagmire (from the Family Guy)
> 
> Gary



LOL, however, in the famous words of Al Bundy, "PEGGGGGGGG DO I HAVE TO", yessssssssssssssssssssss Al,lol


----------



## CaseyForrest (Sep 2, 2006)

I can not believe this waste of space thread is still going. 

:deadhorse:


----------



## spike60 (Sep 2, 2006)

This thread cannot possibly still be going on!!!! It's not really a thread anymore; it's become it's own forum! 

2000?


----------



## Kneejerk Bombas (Sep 2, 2006)

spike60 said:


> This thread cannot possibly still be going on!!!! It's not really a thread anymore; it's become it's own forum!
> 
> 2000?


The 440 is one of the best saws from one of the best manufacturers. It's now gone, and replaced by a total piece of junk. It deserves a forum of it's own.


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 2, 2006)

CaseyForrest said:


> I can not believe this waste of space thread is still going.
> 
> :deadhorse:



LOLOL, Cassey I don't know if its wasted space or what but its getting funnier all the time,lol


----------



## rahtreelimbs (Sep 2, 2006)

Mike Maas said:


> The 440 is one of the best saws from one of the best manufacturers. It's now gone, and replaced by a total piece of junk. It deserves a forum of it's own.



While I disagree..........that is a funny post Mike!


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 2, 2006)

Mike Maas said:


> The 440 is one of the best saws from one of the best manufacturers. It's now gone, and replaced by a total piece of junk. It deserves a forum of it's own.



Thats right,lol


----------



## CaseyForrest (Sep 2, 2006)

seems to me all the Stihl guys should run Husky, and the Husky guys should run Stihl. Then theres no more fighting, nothing but love.

Or better yet, give up both and buy stock in Poulan.


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 2, 2006)

CaseyForrest said:


> seems to me all the Stihl guys should run Husky, and the Husky guys should run Stihl. Then theres no more fighting, nothing but love.
> 
> Or better yet, give up both and buy stock in Poulan.



I could do that with ease but do I really have to run the Poulan, Dolmar yes , but that Poulan, grrrr. 
Cassey I likem all.


----------



## rahtreelimbs (Sep 2, 2006)

CaseyForrest said:


> seems to me all the Stihl guys should run Husky, and the Husky guys should run Stihl. Then theres no more fighting, nothing but love.
> 
> Or better yet, give up both and buy stock in Poulan.



No thanks!!! I would rather run one off of *myself* than run a Poulan!!!:bang:


----------



## spike60 (Sep 2, 2006)

Mike Maas said:


> The 440 is one of the best saws from one of the best manufacturers. It's now gone, and replaced by a total piece of junk. It deserves a forum of it's own.




Is the 440 really "gone" or just on it's way out and still available? I would think that there must still be a lot of them in the pipeline for guys who want to grab one.


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 2, 2006)

spike60 said:


> Is the 440 really "gone" or just on it's way out and still available? I would think that there must still be a lot of them in the pipeline for guys who want to grab one.



We were told the 440 would still be made through the 1st quarter of 07. After that she's history. There will be ample supply for anyone who wants that saw. Have to tell ya though Spike had a man come in yesterday and he picked up the 441 and the 440. He looked them over real good and compared the little differance in price and made his own choice. I really stood back and let him make up his mind. He took the 441. He simply said It felt nicer than the 440. You know me, I said ok, lets fire it up and out the door he went,sold.


----------



## GASoline71 (Sep 2, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> We were told the 440 would still be made through the 1st quarter of 07. After that she's history. There will be ample supply for anyone who wants that saw. Have to tell ya though Spike had a man come in yesterday and he picked up the 441 and the 440. He looked them over real good and compared the little differance in price and made his own choice. I really stood back and let him make up his mind. He took the 441. He simply said It felt nicer than the 440. You know me, I said ok, lets fire it up and out the door he went,sold.


 
You mean you did that with no smoke and mirrors... or pushy sales pitch... or locking the door until the guy subdued to the woeful 441?

According to some... all the Stihl dealers/sellers here are supposed to be "pushing" that saw on the customer.

Good sale Thall. I wish you or Andy were my dealer anyday!  

Gary


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 2, 2006)

GASoline71 said:


> You mean you did that with no smoke and mirrors... or pushy sales pitch... or locking the door until the guy subdued to the woeful 441?
> 
> According to some... all the Stihl dealers/sellers here are supposed to be "pushing" that saw on the customer.
> 
> ...



Was no need to push the guy. He had his mind made up he was going to buy one of the two. Had he choose the 440 I would have said the samething, lets go fire it up. Its ok to work on a customer who has no clue what he wants but for those customers that walk in dead set on what he wants its best to let them have the final say without bugging them. This guy had already done some research and was pretty sure of what he wanted when he walked in. My kinda customer...


----------



## spike60 (Sep 2, 2006)

Good selling is often knowing when to shut up. If the guy knows what he wants to buy, then let him buy it. The worst thing to do is start suggesting other models to a guy who's already made up his mind.

The exception of course would be a novice who is about to do something stupid.


----------



## Just Mow (Sep 2, 2006)

spike60 said:


> Good selling is often knowing when to shut up. If the guy knows what he wants to buy, then let him buy it. The worst thing to do is start suggesting other models to a guy who's already made up his mind.
> 
> The exception of course would be a novice who is about to do something stupid.



Couldn't have said it better spike.


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 2, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> Now that is a refreshing idea!



So true Tree, so true.


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 2, 2006)

spike60 said:


> Good selling is often knowing when to shut up. If the guy knows what he wants to buy, then let him buy it. The worst thing to do is start suggesting other models to a guy who's already made up his mind.
> 
> The exception of course would be a novice who is about to do something stupid.



Your right Spike about novice. You'd be surprised how many times I've come right out and told such customers who have no clue that they are flat out making the wrong choice. Luckily though I can give them all the reasons why and they usually understand. Reminds me of a guy who claimed he had this big 3 foot across oak to saw up, he wanted a little MS180 because he didn't want to spend any money. He put a struggle and I finally told him cool, I'll be glad to sell you two saws because you will be back for the right saw. Sure enough he was and admitted he screwed up,lol.


----------



## spike60 (Sep 2, 2006)

This is a true story:

A couple years ago, a guy walks in the store and goes over to the saw wall and walks up and down once or twice looking the saws over. I walk over and ask him if I can help and these are his exact words: " I got this big old tree to take down that's hanging over my house, so I need to buy a chainsaw, but I don't know anything about them 'cause I never ran one before."

Talked him out of that idea and gave him a couple of cards of local arborists.


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 2, 2006)

spike60 said:


> This is a true story:
> 
> A couple years ago, a guy walks in the store and goes over to the saw wall and walks up and down once or twice looking the saws over. I walk over and ask him if I can help and these are his exact words: " I got this big old tree to take down that's hanging over my house, so I need to buy a chainsaw, but I don't know anything about them 'cause I never ran one before."
> 
> Talked him out of that idea and gave him a couple of cards of local arborists.



High five to you Spike, you spared that man alot of misery, good job. Goes to prove sometimes a sale isn't worth what it will create down the road..


----------



## spike60 (Sep 3, 2006)

Got another one that's even funnier:

Guy with a thick Eastern European accent comes in looking at saws. Just needs to clean up some dead stuff and cut some firewood for himself. He doesn't seem to know much about saws, but I'm wondering if maybe it's the language thing. I ask him if has run a chain saw before and he says "yes, for years", and desides to buy a new 359. He's an older guy, and he's not moving all that fast, so I suggest something smaller, because I think the 359 is going to be a bit much for him. He says no, and sticks with the 359.

I go in back and fire it up, then bring it out and set it on the counter. Then he picks it up and squeezes the trigger 4 or 5 times looks at me and says "Vhy is not going?" He didn't have a clue that it was a gas engine and that you had to pull the rope to get it going. He had never run anything but an electric saw! Then, just as I thought, he couldn't pull the rope quick enough to start the saw.

That was enough for me. I just put the saw back on the shelf and told him he wasn't ready for something like that. 

BTW----Both of the characters in the above examples are weekenders from "the city", affectionately known as "citiots".


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 3, 2006)

spike60 said:


> Got another one that's even funnier:
> 
> Guy with a thick Eastern European accent comes in looking at saws. Just needs to clean up some dead stuff and cut some firewood for himself. He doesn't seem to know much about saws, but I'm wondering if maybe it's the language thing. I ask him if has run a chain saw before and he says "yes, for years", and desides to buy a new 359. He's an older guy, and he's not moving all that fast, so I suggest something smaller, because I think the 359 is going to be a bit much for him. He says no, and sticks with the 359.
> 
> ...



LOL, good job Spike, you know what to do and what not to do for the sake of your customers, thats top notch all the way. I use go by the same methods in almost everything I do. To prove it I was out doing some sawing today for a good friend of mine. He had a few oaks on the ground, big ones, and a birch he wanted taken down by his house. Those were no problem but he also had two more big oaks near his daughters house that he wanted taken down. I looked them over and said nope, no way, they are leaning way to hard toward the house. I refused to cut them knowing full well where they were going to land, on the house. He thanked me for being up front instead of taking chances. 

Since this is the 441 thread I'll add thats the saw I used today on the big oaks and it did superb. So good in fact that the mans son-in-law said he was going to have to get him one. Needless to say I told him where he could get one. Was a good day indeed, made a few hundred and sold a saw to boot...


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 3, 2006)

GASoline71 said:


> Good sale Thall. I wish you or Andy were my dealer anyday!
> 
> Gary




Hey, you're local, I can be your dealer


----------



## theXman (Sep 3, 2006)

*good or bad?*

Okay, I haven't followed this thread and there is 75 pages. So much of it is off topic and I don't have time to read them all to determine what the verdict is on the 441. In the beginning there was praise of the 441 then it seemed it got negative.

Could you sum it up here for an update please?

Is the 441 a good saw or not? Is it a better saw than the 440?

I'm sure there are other readers that would like to see these 75 pages summed up here as well.

Thank you for your information, I look forward to reading your opinion on the saw.


----------



## CaseyForrest (Sep 3, 2006)

I think the synopsis is, even though its 11.2 ounces heavier than the saw its replacing, the anti-vibe, and powerband make it null. But that depends on who you ask, some will fight to the death about the weight difference, and call it junk because of it. Its up to you, feel it, run it.....And I would take the word of the guy thats run it, and not just running his mouth.

Keep in mind all saws are headed this direction.

On a side note....I used to live near you, Gaithersburg, and then Frederick.


----------



## Gologit (Sep 3, 2006)

And now I have convince myself I don't really need one. :bang:


----------



## Gologit (Sep 4, 2006)

C'mon guys!!! A little help here!!! I don't really need another saw so give me several good reasons not to run out and buy the "Prince" :help:


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 4, 2006)

theXman said:


> Okay, I haven't followed this thread and there is 75 pages. So much of it is off topic and I don't have time to read them all to determine what the verdict is on the 441. In the beginning there was praise of the 441 then it seemed it got negative.
> 
> Could you sum it up here for an update please?
> 
> ...



I wouldn't say it went negitive, I would say it turned into alot of fun. Alot of non-sense, joking and alot of reaching to prove that a few ounces equals a ton,lol. 

All those that have used it have posted good things about it, nothing negitive. One guy posted he ran it againist a Husky 372 and the Husky was faster but the 441 was smoother. He said he wanted to try it again. Another guy posted that he was at a fair and the 441 was faster than the 372. Those posts were made in other threads. 

I have one and used it today. The tree's it butchered never said a word,lol It is a super smooth machine. No one agrues that, not the users or the paper readers. It cuts faster than the 440 and it's smoother in the hand by a mile. Speed wise in the cut its plenty fast. The big hoop la about the saw is the weight. Its heavier than the 440 by 8 ounces,some say 12, some call it a ton. I call it a saw not for faint hearted who can't handle a few extra ounces. Fact is anyone that can handle a 440 can handle a 441. To sum it up more clearly would I trade my 441 for a 440, no way. The 440 is a time tested old favorite. The 441 is new and time will tell whether its as good as the 440. One thing is for certain, in due process and time the 441 will be the choice of the two because the 440 is leaving the line up. Those that prefer the old time favorite should buy them up before they are all gone.


----------



## 04ultra (Sep 4, 2006)

boboak said:


> C'mon guys!!! A little help here!!! I don't really need another saw so give me several good reasons not to run out and buy the "Prince" :help:




Bob you just need to try one out ..


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 4, 2006)

boboak said:


> C'mon guys!!! A little help here!!! I don't really need another saw so give me several good reasons not to run out and buy the "Prince" :help:



Bob its weighs more than a Caddliac, but then again its just as smooth, gotcha,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## stihlatit (Sep 4, 2006)

Those were awesome pictures of the bikes back there. No fear of hitting a rock if we put some wings on it......we will have liftoff.


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 4, 2006)

stihlatit said:


> Those were awesome pictures of the bikes back there. No fear of hitting a rock if we put some wings on it......we will have liftoff.



You got that right. With that much motor they would fly with wings, wowow


----------



## stihlatit (Sep 4, 2006)

coveredinsap said:


> Here's the Stihl fanboy whining again. In the original post, the term "walked away from" generally connotates a meaning more than just "noticeable". It most definitely is closer to "substantial" in meaning.
> 
> If you and I are having a foot race, and I "walked away from" you with the victory....that means I kicked your arse. It certainly doesn't mean it was only "noticeable" or barely a victory.....you got your arse kicked, i.e "walked away from". Jeez Louise, will the whining from the Stihl fanboys never cease?



What would you know about a Stihl.....you cant afford anything exept that Poulan vibrator up your butt.....when there is room for it.

:notrolls2: :deadhorse: :hmm3grin2orange: :notrolls2: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Hired Gun (Sep 4, 2006)

OUCH!


----------



## SawTroll (Sep 4, 2006)

CaseyForrest said:


> some will fight to the death about the weight difference, and call it junk because of it. ....


I am one of those who pointed at the weight issue, but I sure didn't call it junk because of it.

They sell comparatively cheap here, so I may even buy one when we know a bit more about them....:biggrinbounce2:


----------



## manual (Sep 4, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> Hey Arnie you are on a public forum!
> 
> How about acting like it?


 Now Now Tree,
Don't you see a pattern around here. 
As long as you go with thw Sthil crowd your in.
As soon as you go against there grain your attacked.
all along this thread has been bias.

Hay Arnie, I can't afford any type of saw right. all I can do is window shop.
does that make you a better man then I?
And Thall I guess I am an untouchable. Why because my family comes first.
Times will get better always comes and goes here in the north.
something Flatlanders don't understand.
So when it comes time to buy a new saw. I don't think I want to buy a Sthil if it makes me look down on people without.


----------



## SawTroll (Sep 4, 2006)

manual said:


> ...
> Don't you see a pattern around here.
> As long as you go with thw Sthil crowd your in.
> As soon as you go against there grain your attacked.
> ...


Yes, sometimes it looks like some of the most eager posters here want to use AS as their private chat and promotion forum, and they don't want to be contradicted by others.


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 4, 2006)

manual said:


> Now Now Tree,
> Don't you see a pattern around here.
> As long as you go with thw Sthil crowd your in.
> As soon as you go against there grain your attacked.
> ...



Manual I wasn't looking down on you or anyone else. I think if you look back through this thread at some of your own posts you was shooting off pretty heavy yourself and I took it in stride. The tables got turned when a few that used it or saw it againist the 372 posted the results, thats when everyone cooled their thoughts all the sudden. The untouchable remark was for those who were yaking but have yet to use the saw and I think its a fair statement. It sure wasn't meant to be looking down on you or anyone else. It was meant to say use the saw first then say what you have to say. You posted the saw was "all talk and no show" but you never used it so you really don't know. If thats looking down on you I just can't see how. I know you like J'red and Husky and thats cool. I don't down either one but I'm not going to sit back while others down mine, especially one they have yet to run. This thread was a about a new saw that happened to be a Stihl. When someone starts a thread on a new J'red or Husky you won't see me say the things you and a bunch of others did in this thread because I say what I know, not what I don't know. 

Cheer up ole boy for I surely wasn't looking down on you or anyone else,


----------



## manual (Sep 4, 2006)

boboak said:


> C'mon guys!!! A little help here!!! I don't really need another saw so give me several good reasons not to run out and buy the "Prince" :help:


 

#1 Looks Like a Husky wanna be.
#2 Acts like a Husky.
#3 Copied after the Husky.
#4 Cuts Like A Husky 372.
#5 Funny Nobodys compairing it with 575.
#6 Wait and see what happens This forum is too Bias.
#7 What do I know I don't own one. I also don't own a Fiat.
Fix-It-Again-Thall.
#8 Why not buy a Husky or a Dolmar for that matter they have been smooth 
runners.
#9 Even the Sthil dealers would buy a 441 over there 440 tells you alot about
there past products.
Top 10 Reason
You don't see a 1000 plus post trying to convence you to buy any other 
saw. Hmmmmm.


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 4, 2006)

SawTroll said:


> I am one of those who pointed at the weight issue, but I sure didn't call it junk because of it.
> 
> They sell comparatively cheap here, so I may even buy one when we know a bit more about them....:biggrinbounce2:



You have a short memory. You should also say you was the one who put up in big bold red letters that the weight was a huge disappointment. Its ok though everyone makes a azz out of theirselves every now and then, we forgive ya,,:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 4, 2006)

manual said:


> #1 You don't see a 1000 plus post trying to convence you to buy any other
> saw. Hmmmmm.



All I saw was 5 guys trying to say why not to buy them...But none of them had ever run or even seen one


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 4, 2006)

stihlatit said:
 

> Those were awesome pictures of the bikes back there. No fear of hitting a rock if we put some wings on it......we will have liftoff.



Have to lean to the left before appying throttle though, or is it the rigth???


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 4, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> Hey Arnie you are on a public forum!
> 
> How about acting like it?



Treeco's playing moderator again...

Hey Tree - you want us to drag up all you posts where you said "a few" things out of place??? 

Leave the chastising to the mods.


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 4, 2006)

manual said:


> #1 Looks Like a Husky wanna be.
> #2 Acts like a Husky.
> #3 Copied after the Husky.
> #4 Cuts Like A Husky 372.
> ...



Manual you crack me up. This thread would have never made a 1000 posts if those who hadn't used the saw hadn't been so intent to prove their guessing assumtions. As for your list there I could have fun with that but I'm in a good mood. I will point out the reason it wasn't compared to the 575 was because the 575 is heavier than the 441. Nobody wanted to go there. I let it slide for like Spike60 said, his customers are happy with the 575 which proves weight isn't such a huge factor like it was made out to be on the 441.


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 4, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> Hey Arnie you are on a public forum!
> 
> How about acting like it?



That looks like a Jimmy Swaggart statement.


----------



## manual (Sep 4, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Manual you crack me up. This thread would have never made a 1000 posts if those who hadn't used the saw hadn't been so intent to prove their guessing assumtions. As for your list there I could have fun with that but I'm in a good mood. I will point out the reason it wasn't compared to the 575 was because the 575 is heavier than the 441. Nobody wanted to go there. I let it slide for like Spike60 said, his customers are happy with the 575 which proves weight isn't such a huge factor like it was made out to be on the 441.


 
Post #1148 

Chat with ya latter, I've got wood to cut.
That is if i can stop Laughing.


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 4, 2006)

manual said:


> Post #1148
> 
> Chat with ya latter, I've got wood to cut.
> That is if i can stop Laughing.



:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: We know,lol


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 4, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> I think he was talking to you guys.



there you go again:deadhorse:


----------



## rahtreelimbs (Sep 4, 2006)

You run the saw.............the weight diff is not noticeable!


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 4, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> Hey Lake have you tried one yet?
> 
> ......or just flapping your jaws?




Two, as a matter of fact...:rockn:


----------



## rahtreelimbs (Sep 4, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> Rich my local dealer said they would work on getting theirs started over the weekend so I'm stopping in Tuesday to see if they had any luck.




:bang: :yoyo: :bang:


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 4, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> Rich my local dealer said they would work on getting theirs started over the weekend so I'm stopping in Tuesday to see if they had any luck.



Durn Treeco are you saying they only have one in the whole store, what kind of outfit is that. You come on up here to Va and I'll hand you one that not only starts but cuts good, real good. You will have to overlook the weight though, wink.


----------



## SawTroll (Sep 4, 2006)

Thall, you have more than 25% of the posts in this tread.  

Does that tell us something??????

 :help:


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 4, 2006)

SawTroll said:


> Thall, you have more than 25% of the posts in this tread.
> 
> Does that tell us something??????
> 
> :help:




Yeah, tells me you got too much time on your hands counting posts,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: Remember too Saw Troll since I started this thread I'm entitled to post as much as I want. All kidding aside its a fun thread Saw Troll, you have to admit.


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 4, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> MS 441
> STIHL Magnum™ 70.7 cc(4.3 c.i.) 4.1 kW (5.5 bhp) 6.6 kg
> 
> 
> ...



Well durn Tree how come you call yourself a lyer. I just read a post of yours somewhere in which you claimed the 441 was heavier. Now you post they weigh the same,hmmm. Tree your credability is slipping bad. 

Reminds me though Tree, have you ever run a 460 up againist a bigger 064??


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 4, 2006)

*Wheres the weight*

:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: you forgot to whin about the weight on that one,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 4, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> About that recall Thall?
> 
> Hear anything yet?



Tree if theres a recall on it I'll be sure to tell you before anyone else. You didn't answer my question though Tree, have you ever ran a 460 up beside a bigger 064??


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 4, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> I've owned several 064.
> 
> Both the 460 and the 064 have better power to weight ratios than the 441.



Not my point Tree. I got not one but 2 -064's out in the shed. I got one 046Mag. The 046 will eat a 064 alive. So beware of numbers Tree, they don't tell the whole story, the wood does. If you think the 460 will just blow the 441 away your in for either a rude awakening or merely a pleasant surprise, which ever way you decide to take it. Take it from one that owns both and knows...


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 4, 2006)

*ooops missed that part Tree*

Do I like the 064, not really. Its ok but no screamer or powerhouse..


----------



## belgian (Sep 4, 2006)

Hey Thall, I think Treeco is trying to take you for a ride. 
You remember offering a nice deal to SAP on a 66 I believe it was, for only admitting he was trying to stir the pot....

Treeco's constant naysaying is intended just to make you offer him the same kinda deal on the 441. The only difference is that he's gone take it, and run...
So hold on tight to that 441


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 4, 2006)

belgian said:


> Hey Thall, I think Treeco is trying to take you for a ride.
> You remember offering a nice deal to SAP on a 66 I believe it was, for only admitting he was trying to stir the pot....
> 
> Treeco's constant naysaying is intended just to make you offer him the same kinda deal on the 441. The only difference is that he's gone take it, and run...
> So hold on tight to that 441



LOL, naaaaaaaaaa Belgain all Tree is doing is messing with me. He don't pay any mind to what I say nor do I really pay any mind to what he says. Heck look at our posts and its obvious we just adore each other,lol. 

Fact is though if Tree lived near by I'd take that 441 of mine over to him and say here, use it for a few days. If he did I think he may change his opinion of it but he wouldn't tell me. He and me, how shall I say this, are more less pickin at each other. Its all good, I can handle anything he can toss out and he seems to handle most anything I throw back so its all good.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 4, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> MS 441
> STIHL Magnum™ 70.7 cc(4.3 c.i.) 4.1 kW (5.5 bhp) 6.6 kg
> 
> 
> ...



Wow, somethig NEW!  That 8 track still not broken?

Hey Treeco, keep buying the 440 - a sale for Stihl is a sale someone else doesn't make. Better yet, buy the 460 - Stihl makes more money!:rockn:



Oh yes, the saw that wouldn't start - What's the dealer name? I'd like to chat with him... A hint is all, and a first name. I can look it up on Stihl's system.


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 4, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> Wow, somethig NEW!  That 8 track still not broken?
> 
> Hey Treeco, keep buying the 440 - a sale for Stihl is a sale someone else doesn't make. Better yet, buy the 460 - Stihl makes more money!:rockn:




We've got 2-440's left in stock marked down 10%. So far though they are still sitting there while 2-441's at full price have left the building and they are on display side by side. For TreeCo I'd drop even more if he wants those 440's but he's going to have to come get them.


----------



## manual (Sep 4, 2006)

Well I'm Back cutting wood 4 Red Oaks = 2 face cord of wood. Not bad.
Thall you Keep on trying to pawn off those out-of-date saws to TreeCo.
If he don't buy them I am sure someone will. Any case tree should get some commision on sales
Lake you keep on:rockn:
I have some wood to stack.
Lets see did I leave something out.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 4, 2006)

manual said:


> Well I'm Back cutting wood 4 Red Oaks = 2 face cord of wood. Not bad.
> Thall you Keep on trying to pawn off those out-of-date saws to TreeCo.
> If he don't buy them I am sure someone will. Any case tree should get some commision on sales
> Lake you keep on:rockn:
> ...




I'm :rockn:

Thall - Try jacking up the price on the 440's by $50. - RARE Collectible - LIGHTWEIGHT

Off back into the sun to do some more work. Catch you all later.


----------



## Marky Mark (Sep 4, 2006)

*Sharp chains and powerful light weight anti-vibe chainsaws are a winning combination.*

Treeco is right that's why Husky is a smoother saw to work with all day. 

You Rock Dan.


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 4, 2006)

Marky Mark said:


> *Sharp chains and powerful light weight anti-vibe chainsaws are a winning combination.*
> 
> Treeco is right that's why Husky is a smoother saw to work with all day.
> 
> You Rock Dan.



Your right Mark, thats why Tree uses nothing but Stihl


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 4, 2006)

manual said:


> Well I'm Back cutting wood 4 Red Oaks = 2 face cord of wood. Not bad.
> Thall you Keep on trying to pawn off those out-of-date saws to TreeCo.
> If he don't buy them I am sure someone will. Any case tree should get some commision on sales
> Lake you keep on:rockn:
> ...



Will do Manual.


----------



## Rspike (Sep 4, 2006)

Ha ! Your not too far off there ........... Look what happened to the Husqvarna 372XP


Lakeside53 said:


> I'm :rockn:
> 
> Thall - Try jacking up the price on the 440's by $50. - RARE Collectible - LIGHTWEIGHT
> 
> Off back into the sun to do some more work. Catch you all later.


----------



## manual (Sep 4, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> I'm :rockn:
> 
> Thall - Try jacking up the price on the 440's by $50. - RARE Collectible - LIGHTWEIGHT
> 
> Off back into the sun to do some more work. Catch you all later.



Gees.....Lake leave it to you. You forgot to say. "ViBeRaTeS a LiTtLe BiT".


----------



## Marky Mark (Sep 4, 2006)

TreeCo how come I didn't get a pm?


----------



## stihlatit (Sep 4, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> Hey Arnie you are on a public forum!
> 
> How about acting like it?



Mind your own business tree fart. Everytime you enter a room it begins to stink.

:hmm3grin2orange:  :hmm3grin2orange:  :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## rahtreelimbs (Sep 4, 2006)

stihlatit said:


> Mind your own business tree fart. Everytime you enter a room it begins to stink.
> 
> :hmm3grin2orange:  :hmm3grin2orange:  :hmm3grin2orange:




LOL :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## stihlatit (Sep 4, 2006)

:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


TreeCo said:


> Well get off of your knees Arnie. The air is fresher up here.
> 
> 
> 
> :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:



Wow and you talk about me. Seems you are trying to enjoy a double standard but then you never did give your posts a lot of thought.

Actually I wasn't on my knees. You were hanging by your neck and it was the last thing you did before you left us.


----------



## Marky Mark (Sep 4, 2006)

Dan I am waiting:rockn:


----------



## SawTroll (Sep 5, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Yeah, tells me you got too much time on your hands counting posts,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: Remember too Saw Troll since I started this thread I'm entitled to post as much as I want. All kidding aside its a fun thread Saw Troll, you have to admit.


 
Yes, it has been quite fun - at least now and then.

By the way; I didn't have to count the posts - the counts are readily availiable, just click on the "Replies" number. 
By now, you have 308 posts in this tread, I have 26. :help:


----------



## SawTroll (Sep 5, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> You have a short memory. You should also say you was the one who put up in big bold red letters that the weight was a huge disappointment. Its ok though everyone makes a azz out of theirselves every now and then, we forgive ya,,:hmm3grin2orange:



Quite the contrary - I have a long memory, and I still remember the disappointment that struck me and some others when Stihl started to leak info on the 441 - by then Stihl listed the 440 as 6.1 kg, and the successor was to be 6.6 kg, halv a kilo more.

I guess that we had hoped that Stihl would do about the same thing as they did with the 361 vs. 360, but they went a few steps too far and ended up with a "heavyweight", comparable to the Husky 575xp....... 

Let's hope that there will be a MS461 on the same chassis as the 441 quite soon - with 460 power the weight will not look bad at all.....


----------



## SawTroll (Sep 5, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> ... I will point out the reason it wasn't compared to the 575 was because the 575 is heavier than the 441. ...


I think that nobody wanted to go there, because the 575 never has been accepted as a good option at AS.

According to KWF/DLG the 570 and 575 actually are .1 kg _lighter_ than Husky states. If the stated weight of the 441 is true, *the difference between the 575 and 441 is only .1 kg.* 

Over here the 575xp is offered alongside the 372xp, at the same price.
The MS441 is a lot cheaper.......


----------



## SawTroll (Sep 5, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Well durn Tree how come you call yourself a lyer. I just read a post of yours somewhere in which you claimed the 441 was heavier. Now you post they weigh the same,hmmm. Tree your credability is slipping bad.
> ...


Not really - it depends on if you believe Stihl last year numbers for the 460 and 440, or if you believe this years numbers.

I repeat; last year the 440 was listed as 6.1 kg, and the *460 as 6.5 kg*.

This year the numbers are 6.3 and 6.6.

It is everybodys guess why they have changed the numbers, but I have a theory......


----------



## belgian (Sep 5, 2006)

SawTroll said:


> Over here the 575xp is offered alongside the 372xp, at the same price.
> The MS441 is a lot cheaper.......



Niko, I assume in that case the 441 is a really good deal for ya in Norway, in spite of the weight. No need then for, I must admit, that quite irritating red signature you used earlier. 

I too am not very brand loyal, but recognize good quality equipment from quite a distance. Smashing a saw over a relatively small weight difference is unlikely a fair option, especially because many haven't even touched it. I bet that after this saw has been in the market for a while, the weight issue will become rapidly history.
my 02 cts.


----------



## SawTroll (Sep 5, 2006)

For me _personally_, the weight of a 70 cc or larger saw isn't a big issue, as I would not be carrying it into the woods anyway - It would mostly be a fast blocking and ripping saw, and another toy....  

......but for the sake of those who carry the saws into the woods, and care about the weight, it is not right to pretend that the differences doesn't exist.


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 5, 2006)

SawTroll said:


> Yes, it has been quite fun - at least now and then.
> 
> By the way; I didn't have to count the posts - the counts are readily availiable, just click on the "Replies" number.
> By now, you have 308 posts in this tread, I have 26. :help:



Make mine 309 then SawTroll and you have to speak up more often, only 26, whats up with that,haha. Fact is SawTroll I never started this thread to be tissy contest over weight and performance and whatever else has come up throughout this thread. Before I typed the very first word I had bought the saw and gave it a run. I was impressed and stated so. I've used the saw a few more times since then and I still find it impressive. Thats my opinion and I'm sticking to it. Some judge saws very differently than most and I can accept that with ease providing they judge after they run it. Thats been the issue in this thread. Some will surely try it and say terrbile saw, some will try it and say nice saw. Some will say its slow, some will say its fast. Some will find fault somewhere in it and some will not. I have no problem with that all for we all know no two people think alike and one product not will satisfy everyone. I say its a winner and surely some will say its a loser. Some will like it and some will hate it. Thats life my friend and thats what makes life so good. I was told once by a old timer that quote "if eveyone agreed on everything life would be boring as hell" unquote. I think thats a true statement and thats why this has been a fun thread. You found the weight disappointing and I find it no issue at all, see it gives us something to talk about SawTroll. If it was perfecto saw in every which way for everyone this thread would have went one page and stopped. That goes for all saws, if they were perfect in everyway for everyone we'd have to sit here at stare at a blank screen. Therefore its a good thing all saws aren't perfect for all people. Now I've given you lots of room to post more, 26 posts in a thread like this, the most argued thread known to mankind, come on SawTroll you need to pick up the pace,:hmm3grin2orange: , just messing with ya.


----------



## SawTroll (Sep 5, 2006)

:sword:


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 5, 2006)

SawTroll said:


> :sword:



LOLOL, that was a short 27 but heres back at ya,:sword: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Just Mow (Sep 5, 2006)

Thall, I guess this just won't die. My 441 is still running strong and smooth just like it should. :biggrinbounce2:


----------



## Just Mow (Sep 5, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> I stopped in my local shop today and they are still having trouble with their 441.
> 
> I've heard so much about the 441 that I'm really looking forward to hearing one run.


Drive, Fly, Walk, to Texas and I will let you cuy with mine.:greenchainsaw:


----------



## CaseyForrest (Sep 5, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> I stopped in my local shop today and they are still having trouble with their 441.
> 
> I've heard so much about the 441 that I'm really looking forward to hearing one run.



You are either lying, or not very smart.

I hope you dont do business with a saw shop that cant get a new saw running. Or just pull another one out of the box and give that one a go.


----------



## sawinredneck (Sep 5, 2006)

99


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 5, 2006)

Just Mow said:


> Thall, I guess this just won't die. My 441 is still running strong and smooth just like it should. :biggrinbounce2:



Well Mow thats good to know. Mine is perking coffee just fine too. I used mine Sunday doing up a few oak tree's and the guy that own the place kept watching that saw do its thing. When done he said I gotta get me one of those. He, ,like you and me, thought it does a good job and it does. The tree's never said a word the whole time, imagine that,lolololol

All kidding aside like I've said some will like it, some will find fault but thats ok, I likes it. Sounds like you like yours too, cool beans..


----------



## rahtreelimbs (Sep 5, 2006)

Just Mow said:


> Thall, I guess this just won't die. My 441 is still running strong and smooth just like it should. :biggrinbounce2:






THALL10326 said:


> Well Mow thats good to know. Mine is perking coffee just fine too. I used mine Sunday doing up a few oak tree's and the guy that own the place kept watching that saw do its thing. When done he said I gotta get me one of those. He, ,like you and me, thought it does a good job and it does. The tree's never said a word the whole time, imagine that,lolololol
> 
> All kidding aside like I've said some will like it, some will find fault but thats ok, I likes it. Sounds like you like yours too, cool beans..



I think this will be the impression once more guys get their hands on the saw!!!


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 5, 2006)

rahtreelimbs said:


> I think this will be the impression once more guys get their hands on the saw!!!



Well I don't know Rich, I found a fault with mine Sunday. Seems I scratched it somehow. Damned ole cheap paint,lol. Now its lost its place on the shelf, no scratches allowed up on the throne,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Just Mow (Sep 5, 2006)

rahtreelimbs said:


> I think this will be the impression once more guys get their hands on the saw!!!



I think more would have already if Thall hadn't scratched his and made it ugly.


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 5, 2006)

Just Mow said:


> I think more would have already if Thall hadn't scratched his and made it ugly.



GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR ok Mow I'll order some touch up paint,


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 6, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> Lake you have a PM.




O.k, I've been away for a couple of days... No PM... or email or anything.




treeco said:


> Hey one limp wristed putz at a time!
> 
> My PM went to Lake but you're next




BTW, calling me a Putz isn't going to get me to start liking you.


----------



## manual (Sep 6, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR ok Mow I'll order some touch up paint,


 
Thats ok Thall,
Just keep scratching it and your saw will soon be all Orange.:biggrinbounce2:
So tell me how many tanks of gas have you ran through your 441.
what seems to be the max Rpm on her. Now I'm talking your saw not whats on paper.


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 6, 2006)

manual said:


> Thats ok Thall,
> Just keep scratching it and your saw will soon be all Orange.:biggrinbounce2:
> So tell me how many tanks of gas have you ran through your 441.
> what seems to be the max Rpm on her. Now I'm talking your saw not whats on paper.



I done put about 6 tanks through it Manual and the R's are hanging right where I set them, 12,700-13,000. Once I get about five gallons of fuel through it I'll turn it on up until I find that sweet spot, I'm figuring around 13,000-13,500. Its maxes at 14,000 but that is just max rpm, not where it may cut best. Most all my saws cut best at around 500-1000 R's less than max except for my 046, its setting at 14,000-14,100 and it does best at the max. The little MS200T I got runs best at 15,300 but other than those 2 all the rest seem to put out the most power at less than max rpm's. Don't you fear Manual, if the 441 cuts best at 14,000 thats where I'll set it. 

All orange, grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr,lololol, how bout red and black ole boy, now thats a pretty combo there, wink.


----------



## manual (Sep 6, 2006)

13,500rpm thats what the 044 runs a right? Sounds good
how about the torque do you notice any difference with that new carb set up?

Two tone is always the best option.


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 6, 2006)

manual said:


> 13,500rpm thats what the 044 runs a right? Sounds good
> how about the torque do you notice any difference with that new carb set up?
> 
> Two tone is always the best option.



The thing I notice between the 440 and the 441 is this. They both go in the cut the same since they're both running ruffly the same rpm. However as you go down through the log and the chain is pulling more wood the 440 loses more rpms than the 441. The 441 like all saws slows abit with the more wood its pulling but its not as much as the 440. In other words they go in the same but beings the 441 hold its R's better in bigger wood it will out cut the 440. We're not talking two blocks to one or any non-sense like that. The power band is different, there's no doult about it. If the 441 runs best at 14,000 the 440 won't hold a lite to it. Mine is just being broke in and I know a 440 won't handle it now, after its broke in the farther the 440 will be behind it. 

Two tone is best, I agree 100%, orange and white, had to toss one at ya for picking on me so much,lol. Fact is the tree's dont give a damn if its pink and gray, they all dread the saw.


----------



## manual (Sep 6, 2006)

I'd swear I just seen that finger shaking at me when you said Orange and white. But remember I said "Best Option"
Our sthill dealer still does not have one in yet. stop by after I had my Sons' hair cut last week end. Course I had to tell momma that Junior wanted to look at the saws.


----------



## SawTroll (Sep 6, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> LOLOL, that was a short 27 but heres back at ya,:sword: :hmm3grin2orange:


Actually, it was number 31, as I made more than one post yesterday...;

Here is the complete list of posters in this tread, so far:

THALL10326 315 
Lakeside53 128 
04ultra 120 
manual 104 
bwalker 59 
TreeCo 52 
CaseyForrest 45 
stihlatit 43 
sawinredneck 34 
SawTroll 32 
coveredinsap 24 
Rspike 23 
rahtreelimbs 19 
LarryTheCableGuy 19 
spike60 17 
Freakingstang 16 
BlueRidgeMark 14 
Mike Maas 14 
Just Mow 13 
spacemule 12 
fishhuntcutwood 12 
belgian 10 
sugarbush 8 
Rotax Robert 6 
RaisedByWolves 5 
Ekka 5 
166 5 
Mr. 4 
aggiewoodbutchr 4 
bcorradi 3 
Urbicide 3 
formersawrep 3 
Marky Mark 3 
GASoline71 3 
ShoerFast 3 
Four Paws 2 
Marco 2 
elmnut 2 
bump_r 2 
Uwharrie 2 
boboak 2 
stckciv 2 
Big Woody 2 
Dadatwins 2 
SWE#Kipp 1 
computeruser 1 
Justsaws 1 
John Dolmar 1 
Greg Lees 1 
361kid 1 
SteveH 1 
cord arrow 1 
rbtree 1 
theXman 1 
SinglerM 1 
Hired Gun 1 
NWCS 1 
Stihldoc 1


----------



## SawTroll (Sep 6, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> "if everyone agreed on everything life would be boring as hell"


I have used expressions like that many times myself - only that I didn't know it was a quote.....


----------



## Just Mow (Sep 6, 2006)

SawTroll said:


> Actually, it was number 31, as I made more than one post yesterday...;
> 
> Here is the complete list of posters in this tread, so far:
> 
> ...


Man do you have time on your hands.....


----------



## SawTroll (Sep 6, 2006)

No, I don't have that much time.

The list is only a question of "copy and paste".


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 6, 2006)

SawTroll said:


> Actually, it was number 31, as I made more than one post yesterday...;
> 
> Here is the complete list of posters in this tread, so far:
> 
> ...




Could you re-sort that by number of characters typed?


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 6, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> Instead of being sorted by employees of Stihl dealerships? LOL




or those that have never ran one? :rockn: 

Where's that PM? oh, just forget it... you'll never send it. You have a bunch of dealers in your area with MS441 Go find one... and try it.


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 6, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> or those that have never ran one? :rockn:
> 
> Where's that PM? oh, just forget it... you'll never send it. You have a bunch of dealers in your area with MS441 Go find one... and try it.



Lake are you saying TreeCo never sent you the PM he said he did???


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 6, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Lake are you saying TreeCo never sent you the PM he said he did???



Nope


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 6, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> Nope



Well thats a helluva howdy dooty. I thought he was PM'ing you the name of the dealer that couldn't start the 441. After he did that I thought maybe he was being honest. Now I see it was a hoax, man. TreeCo your word isn't worth the ink it takes to write it. You should quit that non-sense Tree. Lying is no good and as you see it does come back to haunt you, wise up and stop it.,


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 6, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> Sure did.
> 
> BTW they have sent two out of four back.
> 
> ...



So let me get this striaght, they now had four in stock but would not pull out another to start for you, come on Tree your starting to make a fool of yourself here.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 6, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> Sure did.




Give it up. The mods have the Email and PM logs. Nothing made it to my inbox...


----------



## manual (Sep 6, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> or those that have never ran one? :rockn:
> 
> Don't make me put my gloves back on.


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 6, 2006)

manual said:


> Lakeside53 said:
> 
> 
> > or those that have never ran one? :rockn:
> ...


----------



## Just Mow (Sep 6, 2006)

wonder why mine hasn't had to go back...........
maybe because it runs like a scalded ape.........:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 6, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> Thall they sold the two they could get started.
> 
> ....but they expect to see them come back in soon.
> 
> Lake I've resent that PM.



Really, and what would be the reason for them coming back in soon?


----------



## rahtreelimbs (Sep 6, 2006)

Dan, Time to find another dealer!!!:monkey:


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 6, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> Thall they sold the two they could get started.
> 
> ....but they expect to see them come back in soon.
> 
> Lake I've resent that PM.



Holds on a second, so now are you saying only 2 out of the 4 started, the other two were sent back. Durn Tree maybe I should come down there and show them boys how to start a saw and while I'm there I'll show you how to run one, got a spare room at your house I could stay??


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 6, 2006)

Pretty odd... When we have the 1 in a maybe high hundreds of saws, blowers or whatever that has a problem, it's an immediate warranty issue (we get paid) that the factory resolves and we fix on the spot. The units never get sent back.


----------



## Lakeside53 (Sep 6, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> Lake I've resent that PM.



The in-box is still empty. Try sending it by pm/email and not carrier pigeon. 

You're full of it... and you've been caught out.


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 6, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> Pretty odd... When we have the 1 in a maybe high hundreds of saws, blowers or whatever that has a problem, it's an immediate warranty issue (we get paid) that the factory resolves and we fix on the spot. The units never get sent back.



Same here, we don't send back units with warranty issues, hell we get paid to fix them.


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 6, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> The in-box is still empty. Try sending it by pm/email and not carrier pigeon.
> 
> You're full of it... and you've been caught out.



Give him a minute Lake, its raining here, the pigeon may have a tuff time in the rain and all. I saw one fly by awhile go carring a 441 with a sign that read "Georgia Bound".


----------



## sugarbush (Sep 6, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Give him a minute Lake, its raining here, the pigeon may have a tuff time in the rain and all. I saw one fly by awhile go carring a 441 with a sign that read "Georgia Bound".


Hope he get's blown off coarse and drop's it in my pumpkin patch, there just about ready to harvest. and don't worry about service'n it. I'll get it started.


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 6, 2006)

sugarbush said:


> Hope he get's blown off coarse and drop's it in my pumpkin patch, there just about ready to harvest. and don't worry about service'n it. I'll get it started.



LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL, Sugar you ole dog you know how to crack a good one,LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 6, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> I do have a spare room for you Thall so come on down!



LOLOLOLOL, now I have to admit Tree that was a good one. Now I know where you get all that schit you talk,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## manual (Sep 6, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> manual said:
> 
> 
> > Manual beware, I'm easy to kid around with, Lake isn't someone you want to argue saws with, he knows too damn much, ticks me off too,lol
> ...


----------



## Just Mow (Sep 6, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> I do have a spare room for you Thall so come on down!



That was funny....:hmm3grin2orange:   :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## rahtreelimbs (Sep 6, 2006)

Just Mow said:


> That was funny....:hmm3grin2orange:   :hmm3grin2orange:





As long as there is sandpaper (*36 grit*)to wipe your butt with!!!

:hmm3grin2orange: :biggrinbounce2: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## sugarbush (Sep 6, 2006)

rahtreelimbs said:


> As long as there is sandpaper (*36 grit*)to wipe your butt with!!!
> 
> :hmm3grin2orange: :biggrinbounce2: :hmm3grin2orange:


those of you that have used an outhouse know the paper came in the form of a sear's catalog, and late summer the good stuff came, ma bought peach"s and the wrapper"s when't in the outhouse. reeeal nice..


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 6, 2006)

sugarbush said:


> those of you that have used an outhouse know the paper came in the form of a sear's catalog, and late summer the good stuff came, ma bought peach"s and the wrapper"s when't in the outhouse. reeeal nice..




LOLOL, good one Sugar and true. I hope TreeCo lets me stay for I wanna saw the floor out of that "guest room" of his, all except the four little corners. If he's not full of schit yet he will be,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Just Mow (Sep 6, 2006)

Thall, I wonder how long it would take that outhouse to look like kindling with your 441 :monkey:


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 6, 2006)

Just Mow said:


> Thall, I wonder how long it would take that outhouse to look like kindling with your 441 :monkey:



LOL, I would only saw part of the floor out and holler hey Tree c'mere,lol.

I do have to hand it to him he pulled off a funny post, I rolled when he put up that pic. Now I gotta get him,grrr,lololololol


----------



## Just Mow (Sep 6, 2006)

Have to admit, it was very funny.


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 6, 2006)

Just Mow said:


> Have to admit, it was very funny.



Yeah it was, I rolled on that one. :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## sawinredneck (Sep 6, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Yeah it was, I rolled on that one. :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:




Is that "on" or "in'


----------



## sawinredneck (Sep 6, 2006)

OH CRAP!!!!!!!!!! I am raising my post count on this thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 6, 2006)

sawinredneck said:


> Is that "on" or "in'



Onnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!!!!!!!!!!!!!,lol


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 6, 2006)

sawinredneck said:


> OH CRAP!!!!!!!!!! I am raising my post count on this thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Its ok Andy, you can add to the post count but please keep the CRAP in the outhouse,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## sawinredneck (Sep 6, 2006)

BUT.........BUT...........




SawTroll said:


> Actually, it was number 31, as I made more than one post yesterday...;
> 
> Here is the complete list of posters in this tread, so far:
> 
> ...


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 6, 2006)

sawinredneck said:


> BUT.........BUT...........



That list is out of date, we got a outhouse since that list was posted,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Just Mow (Sep 6, 2006)

and a fine one it was


----------



## SawTroll (Sep 7, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> or those that have never ran one? :rockn:
> .... .



Whether you ran one or not doesn't change the weight.....:hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## SawTroll (Sep 7, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> Could you re-sort that by number of characters typed?


  Then I would actually have to count, the list I posted is only a question of copy and paste.

Here is an updated one;

THALL10326 331 
Lakeside53 134 
04ultra 120 
manual 106 
bwalker 59 
TreeCo 56 
CaseyForrest 45 
stihlatit 43 
sawinredneck 37 
SawTroll 35 
coveredinsap 24 
Rspike 23 
rahtreelimbs 21 
Just Mow 19 
LarryTheCableGuy 19 
spike60 17 
Freakingstang 16 
Mike Maas 14 
BlueRidgeMark 14 
spacemule 12 
fishhuntcutwood 12 
belgian 10 
sugarbush 10 
Rotax Robert 6 
RaisedByWolves 5 
Ekka 5 
166 5 
Mr. 4 
aggiewoodbutchr 4 
ShoerFast 3 
bcorradi 3 
Urbicide 3 
formersawrep 3 
Marky Mark 3 
GASoline71 3 
Big Woody 2 
Dadatwins 2 
Four Paws 2 
Marco 2 
elmnut 2 
bump_r 2 
Uwharrie 2 
boboak 2 
stckciv 2 
Hired Gun 1 
NWCS 1 
Stihldoc 1 
SWE#Kipp 1 
computeruser 1 
Justsaws 1 
John Dolmar 1 
Greg Lees 1 
361kid 1 
SteveH 1 
cord arrow 1 
theXman 1 
rbtree 1 
SinglerM 1


----------



## bump_r (Sep 7, 2006)

SawTroll said:


> For me _personally_, the weight of a 70 cc or larger saw isn't a big issue, as I would not be carrying it into the woods anyway - It would mostly be a fast blocking and ripping saw, and another toy
> 
> ......but for the sake of those who carry the saws into the woods, and care about the weight, it is not right to pretend that the differences doesn't exist.



OK, the weight issue would not be a problem due to the saw's intended use and role in the woodlot. Isn't that kind of what everyone else is saying? I don't see "those who carry the saws into the woods" kicking and screaming about the mondo weight gain...

Improved filtration good
Improved anti-vibe good
Improved emissions good
Improved weight not a concern

What is your argument again? Just the fact that it's not all orange?

I've not seen a 441. Probably will never own one. I'm just being entertained by the two sides arguing while all the while not being as opposed as they seem to think. No one is pretending the weight increase does not EXIST, just that it doesn't MATTER (just as you stated in your post).


----------



## manual (Sep 7, 2006)

bump_r said:


> OK, the weight issue would not be a problem due to the saw's intended use and role in the woodlot. Isn't that kind of what everyone else is saying? I don't see "those who carry the saws into the woods" kicking and screaming about the mondo weight gain...
> 
> Improved filtration good
> Improved anti-vibe good
> ...



No arguement here Bump. Just pointing out that if that is the best Sthil can do was redesign a Husky to look like a Sthil then that is the best Sthil can Do.


----------



## bump_r (Sep 7, 2006)

It's cool - Stihl would be insane NOT to take a look at and even use/copy/enhance what works. One of the biggest comparisons between the "big two" I've seen here was smoothness - why would the loser in that fight NOT fight back - even if it means adopting a better system? We know Stihl is well aware of the comparisons made in the marketplace - I think they had to listen and react. Imitation and flattery, all that stuff...


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 7, 2006)

manual said:


> No arguement here Bump. Just pointing out that if that is the best Sthil can do was redesign a Husky to look like a Sthil then that is the best Sthil can Do.



Uhhhhhhhh Manual don't cha think it was about time someone took a Husky a made it right for a change,lol. 
Just messing with ya. Fact is the spring system is not like the Husky, its better made. That statement came from a long time used to be Husky user who was looking over the 441 here in the store yesterday. You gotta go look at these things you say are a copy and you'll notice they are not, not the springs, not the filter system either. Surely you can't say the two brands look the same, the Stihl is much prutier by far,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## manual (Sep 7, 2006)

Yea I'll give Sthil an "A" for effort.
Just remember you can look at chicken chit all day and no matter how you look at that white dot on it...... You guessed it, it's still chicken chit.


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 7, 2006)

manual said:


> Yea I'll give Sthil an "A" for effort.




LOL, now ya talking.


----------



## manual (Sep 7, 2006)

manual said:


> Yea I'll give Sthil an "A" for effort.
> Just remember you can look at chicken chit all day and no matter how you look at that white dot on it...... You guessed it, it's still chicken chit.


sorry I should have made a new post instead of an edit


----------



## Sethro (Sep 7, 2006)

http://www.break.com/index/looking_for_a_happy_home.html


----------



## bwalker (Sep 7, 2006)

> That statement came from a long time used to be Husky user who was looking over the 441 here in the store yesterday.


 And he bases his oppinion on what?
My 361's antivibe works pretty darn good(an par with my Husky's), to bad Stihl didnt impliment this new spring sytem 10 years ago like veryone else.


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 7, 2006)

bwalker said:


> And he bases his oppinion on what?
> My 361's antivibe works pretty darn good(an par with my Husky's), to bad Stihl didnt impliment this new spring sytem 10 years ago like veryone else.



He based on it his using the Huskies for years and years and replacing broken springs and mounts. He simply said the Stihl system looks better made than the Husky, thats his statement, not mine. He no longer uses Husky at all Ben, he's 100% Stihl now thanks to yours truely and good service. As matter of fact he was just here abit ago Ben and was talking to Ultra on my cell. Ask Ultra what the man said about the two brands, Husky and Stihl and note too he's been a arborist since 1978. Fair to say the man should know what he is talking about after that long in the business...


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 7, 2006)

manual said:


> Yea I'll give Sthil an "A" for effort.
> Just remember you can look at chicken chit all day and no matter how you look at that white dot on it...... You guessed it, it's still chicken chit.




Thats right Manual, thats why I prefer orange and white, no matter how you look at them they are just so pruty,lol


----------



## manual (Sep 7, 2006)

bwalker said:


> And he bases his oppinion on what?
> My 361's antivibe works pretty darn good(an par with my Husky's), to bad Stihl didnt impliment this new spring sytem 10 years ago like veryone else.


 If you start to lose business and your reputation starts to fizzle out then its time to do something about it.
In other words if your can't beat em join em.


----------



## manual (Sep 7, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Thats right Manual, thats why I prefer orange and white, no matter how you look at them they are just so pruty,lol


 I see......
guess were are looking at to differant piles of chicken chit.


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 7, 2006)

manual said:


> I see......
> guess were are looking at to differant piles of chicken chit.



lol, just remember Manual only one carries the big No.1 on its hat, No.2 doesn't really count, wink.


----------



## sawinredneck (Sep 7, 2006)

"I'm Ricky Bobby, either you're first or last!" LOL!!!!!!!!!!
Andy (the semi-Stihl whore)


----------



## manual (Sep 7, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> lol, just remember Manual only one carries the big No.1 on its hat, No.2 doesn't really count, wink.



Nobody gave them that No. 1 they bought it.\
I can have any hat made to say anything.


----------



## Sethro (Sep 7, 2006)

stihl is number 1 in the number 2 business.I think you know thall what the number 2 business is !


----------



## manual (Sep 7, 2006)

I think that takes us back to the chicken chit thing again.


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 7, 2006)

John Dolmar said:


> stihl is number 1 in the number 2 business.I think you know thall what the number 2 business is !



Well hello John, good to see ya. No.1 one in the No.2 business ya say, now John that doesn't really make alot of sense there, we're just talking saws. BTW speaking of numbers where that Dolmar stand now days, I know it has to be at least number 3. Even so I still likes the look of those blue saws, wink.


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 7, 2006)

manual said:


> If you start to lose business and your reputation starts to fizzle out then its time to do something about it.
> In other words if your can't beat em join em.



Manual hate to burst your bubble but it wasn't Stihl that hauled buggy to the chain stores and the internet to get more sales. In fact I find it kinda odd Stihl makes it hard on the customer to get one of their products, dealer only, no internet, no walk in walk out with a box. After all that you would think people would just buy a different brand since its so much easier to shop at home. Any idea why they prefer to get in the car and come get the Stihl over all others? Whats your theroy Manual?


----------



## bwalker (Sep 7, 2006)

> He based on it his using the Huskies for years and years and replacing broken springs and mounts. He simply said the Stihl system looks better made than the Husky, thats his statement, not mine.


 Ill be darned, it must be better because it looks better.:hmm3grin2orange: 
Truth is this guy isnt qualified to judge the merrits of either system just because this guy has been a arborist since 78. Your selling sizzle again.
BTW The Stihl springs might break as well although spring breakage hasnt been a issue with me with my Husky's or the Dolmar I have owned. Rubber antivibe mounts are a differant issue.
I might also add the beiong the sales leader doesnt mean squat in relation to perfromance or quality. After all Ford sells the most trucks and they are certainly no better than a Chevy or a Dodge and in many instances worse.


----------



## bwalker (Sep 7, 2006)

> Any idea why they prefer to get in the car and come get the Stihl over all others? Whats your theroy Manual?


 Its because they equate the MS290 they are buying with the fine Stihl saws of old. Name recognition and reputation based on pro models. It also doesnt hurt that Stihl has a larger dealer network and the other *** they produce is superiuor in performance and quality to the trimmers and the like that Huslky produces. This is the same reason people buy orange poulans over green ones even though they are identical.
Further most of the people buying the saw I mentioned above dont use them enough or know the differance between a good saws and a orange and white dog turd, which is what the 290-390 is. Same goes for the POS Orange Poulans.
As far as the internet goes. Stihl will hold out a bit longer, but e-commerce is the future, make no mistake about it and sooner or latter still will give in. I am not crazy about not having local support as I believe it to be of value for professional users, but I see it coming.


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 7, 2006)

bwalker said:


> Ill be darned, it must be better because it looks better.:hmm3grin2orange:
> Truth is this guy isnt qualified to judge the merrits of either system just because this guy has been a arborist since 78. Your selling sizzle again.
> BTW The Stihl springs might break as well although spring breakage hasnt been a issue with me with my Husky's or the Dolmar I have owned. Rubber antivibe mounts are a differant issue.
> I might also add the beiong the sales leader doesnt mean squat in relation to perfromance or quality. After all Ford sells the most trucks and they are certainly no better than a Chevy or a Dodge and in many instances worse.



LOL, Ben got any boots I can borrow, its getting deep in here. You say a man that runs saws for a living for over 25 years isn't quailified to make a judgement on saws, get real Ben. 

On sales your incorrect as well. Tell that to the saw compaines Ben and they will tell you its all about sales. Without sales they wouldn't be in business. Heck Ben without sales how would you sit around and judge saws, there would be nothing on paper to judge....


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 7, 2006)

bwalker said:


> Its because they equate the MS290 they are buying with the fine Stihl saws of old. Name recognition and reputation based on pro models. It also doesnt hurt that Stihl has a larger dealer network and the other *** they produce is superiuor in performance and quality to the trimmers and the like that Huslky produces. This is the same reason people buy orange poulans over green ones even though they are identical.
> Further most of the people buying the saw I mentioned above dont use them enough or know the differance between a good saws and a orange and white dog turd, which is what the 290-390 is. Same goes for the POS Orange Poulans.
> As far as the internet goes. Stihl will hold out a bit longer, but e-commerce is the future, make no mistake about it and sooner or latter still will give in. I am not crazy about not having local support as I believe it to be of value for professional users, but I see it coming.



Wrong again, damn Ben your slipping bad. Its called being able to take it back where you bought it to get it serviced, thats why they get in their car and come to the dealer. 

What else does your glass ball say about the future Ben, you seem to have all the answers. Hint, get a new glass ball Ben, yours is failing you. The notion your speaking of about Stihl holding out on the net or box stores have been going on since 1974. I think its safe to say after 32years of waiting you might get the hint. Even so though what would happen if Stihl went into Home Depot, Sears and Lowes and on the net, any idea what would happen Ben?? You may have alot less saw brands to argue about......


----------



## bwalker (Sep 7, 2006)

> Wrong again, damn Ben your slipping bad. Its called being able to take it back where you bought it to get it serviced, thats why they get in their car and come to the dealer.


 Not to point out the obvious, but any brand can be brought back to the selling dealer to be serviced so thats by no meens what puts Stihls sales over the top. 
I wasnt reffering to box stores. I was talking about the internet and last i knew it wasnt around in 1974.


----------



## bwalker (Sep 7, 2006)

> LOL, Ben got any boots I can borrow, its getting deep in here. You say a man that runs saws for a living for over 25 years isn't quailified to make a judgement on saws, get real Ben.


 Yea, thats what I am saying. He is not qualified to take a look at a design and deam it higher quality or better performing than another. I havent been around many arborosit, but I have been around more than a few loggers. Most know very little about saws and even less about the engineering involved. Why would they? Their business is to put wood on the ground, not design saws.


> On sales your incorrect as well. Tell that to the saw compaines Ben and they will tell you its all about sales. Without sales they wouldn't be in business. Heck Ben without sales how would you sit around and judge saws, there would be nothing on paper to judge....


 Lemme say it once more. Sales are not indicative of quality or perfromance in some cases. Lets take the auto industry for example. Ford sells the most diesel trucks, but their latest diesel engine is a POS. So much so they are offering owners a incentive of around $4k to purchase a new Ford that will have a redesigned engine in it.
With your logic, Ford would have the highest quality, best performing product because they are the sales leader. The simply do not.
of course I would expecta brand loyal zealot like yourself to admit as much. thats the domain of the guys with no ax to grind or financial stake in the matter.


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 7, 2006)

bwalker said:


> Not to point out the obvious, but any brand can be brought back to the selling dealer to be serviced so thats by no meens what puts Stihls sales over the top.
> I wasnt reffering to box stores. I was talking about the internet and last i knew it wasnt around in 1974.



Awwwwwww ok, excuse me, your right the net wasn't around then Ben, your correct. How long has the net been around, hmmmmmmm, 1985 or so and Stihl continues to ignore it, lets see that 22 years now. I could take a hint after that long that they aren't. However if they do sometime in the next 22 years you will be right. 

As for the dealers don't put Stihl sales over the top well how come Stihl says it does, hmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Ben take a look at Stihl's catalog this year and look at the back cover. They tend to disagree with you and guess who I'm gonna believe. Your right in one aspect though, sales don't justify a quality product, in fact its the other way around, quality products justifies the sales, go figure....


----------



## bwalker (Sep 7, 2006)

> hmmmmmmm, 1985 or so and Stihl continues to ignore it, lets see that 22 years now. I could take a hint after that long that they aren't. However if they do sometime in the next 22 years you will be right.


E-commerce realy didnt take hold intil the late 90's early 00's. In 1985 I would wager to say 9 out of 10 pople would not eben know what the net was. I had not seen the net untill I enrolled in college in 1995.


> As for the dealers don't put Stihl sales over the top well how come Stihl says it does, hmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Ben take a look at Stihl's catalog this year and look at the back cover. They tend to disagree with you and guess who I'm gonna believe. Your right in one aspect though, sales don't justify a quality product, in fact its the other way around, quality products justifies the sales, go figure....


 Gee, I wonder why? Do you honestly think Stihl or Husky for that matter is going to admit they are selling sizzle instead of steak?


----------



## bwalker (Sep 7, 2006)

> don't justify a quality product, in fact its the other way around, quality products justifies the sales, go figure


 Tell that to the guys who bought powerstrokes in the last few years. Remember the Cadillac Cimaron? It was another example of a company selling crap based on brand recognition.


----------



## rahtreelimbs (Sep 7, 2006)

Ahhhhhhhh...........the saga continues!!!:jawdrop: :jawdrop: :jawdrop:


----------



## Mr. (Sep 7, 2006)

bwalker said:


> E-commerce realy didnt take hold intil the late 90's early 00's. In 1985 I would wager to say 9 out of 10 pople would not eben know what the net was. I had not seen the net untill I enrolled in college in 1995.



I believe you guys are equating the internet to search engines. I remember the super long trail of numbers to get to anything. And hope you didn't type one in wrong.

Sorry Ben, my little Arkansas school had internet access way before that, but I don't believe everyone was privy.

Fred


----------



## Frantic7 (Sep 7, 2006)

*Question about a Stihl 038AV Magnum*

I just bought this saw from a guy today for $150.00. It is a 32" bar and about 70cc I think. Well it is leaking oil from about half way down the bar. I am guessing that this is normal, due to the long bar. Is this the reason or is there something wrong here?


----------



## 04ultra (Sep 7, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> He based on it his using the Huskies for years and years and replacing broken springs and mounts. He simply said the Stihl system looks better made than the Husky, thats his statement, not mine. He no longer uses Husky at all Ben, he's 100% Stihl now thanks to yours truely and good service. As matter of fact he was just here abit ago Ben and was talking to Ultra on my cell. Ask Ultra what the man said about the two brands, Husky and Stihl and note too he's been a arborist since 1978. Fair to say the man should know what he is talking about after that long in the business...



Pete said on the phone that he ran Husky's for years and he couldn't get any decent service..He also said he had entirely to many problems with them..He's been in business since 1978 and the last 10 years he has been all Stihl..In his opinion the Stihl is a better saw by far..He laughed about all the people complaining about the few oz's on the 441..Also said If you cant handle a few oz's you should give up running saws..

Pete is a certified Arborist in Virginia..


----------



## rahtreelimbs (Sep 7, 2006)

Frantic7 said:


> I just bought this saw from a guy today for $150.00. It is a 32" bar and about 70cc I think. Well it is leaking oil from about half way down the bar. I am guessing that this is normal, due to the long bar. Is this the reason or is there something wrong here?



Wrong thread!!! :bang:


----------



## rahtreelimbs (Sep 7, 2006)

rahtreelimbs said:


> Wrong thread!!! :bang:






TreeCo said:


> Looks like a good place to me for a Stihl saw question.


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 7, 2006)

bwalker said:


> E-commerce realy didnt take hold intil the late 90's early 00's. In 1985 I would wager to say 9 out of 10 pople would not eben know what the net was. I had not seen the net untill I enrolled in college in 1995.
> 
> Gee, I wonder why? Do you honestly think Stihl or Husky for that matter is going to admit they are selling sizzle instead of steak?



Ok Ben lets come up to the late 90's now, still no Stihl on the net. Last I checked its 2006 and soon to be 2007. Fear not though if they take that route it will be only because you suggested it and knew it before they did.

As for your theory about dealers and sales its obvious you've never been to the Stihl factory in Va Beach nor any Stihl dealer meetings or schools for that matter. So in turn you really don't know what your talking about other than assuming what you think is correct. Thats ok though Ben, I do know what I'm talking about and I'll be nice and keep ya informed. Fact is Ben Stihl relies only on their dealers for sales. Come to think of it where else can you buy one, no where. Durn you shoulda known that Ben. Glad I could point that out for ya..


----------



## rahtreelimbs (Sep 7, 2006)

Alot of my recent saw purchases ( last 3-4 years ) have been from the internet. Mostly from the guys I met through here. I have to say though that buying Stihl 361 and most recent the 441 from a local dealer was nice!

As long as the price is right I will go through a dealer first!


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 7, 2006)

bwalker said:


> Tell that to the guys who bought powerstrokes in the last few years. Remember the Cadillac Cimaron? It was another example of a company selling crap based on brand recognition.



No you tell them Ben, I'm talking saws, your off on cars now, not my subject. 

BTW Ford doesn't make the powerstroke diesel and the little Caddi had a Chevy Nova split frame if I recall but cars and MotorWeek and Motortrend don't interest me much. 

As for selling crap I think Stihl could take some lessons from you if they wanted to sell that, I mean lets face it you keep saying they are living off their reputation, oddly though listening to you makes one wonder what reputation are you talking about,lololol.


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 7, 2006)

TreeCo said:


> Looks like a good place to me for a Stihl saw question.



Hey TreeCo, come on out to the outhouse, seems there's sawdust all over the floor. Walk in there and see whats going on, That was a good one Tree, I hand ya that,lol


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 7, 2006)

bwalker said:


> Yea, thats what I am saying. He is not qualified to take a look at a design and deam it higher quality or better performing than another. I havent been around many arborosit, but I have been around more than a few loggers. Most know very little about saws and even less about the engineering involved. Why would they? Their business is to put wood on the ground, not design saws.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Ben just in case you didn't know but uhhhhhhhh saws are designed and made for people to cut wood with, you know to saw wood with, you know, like loggers and arborist's. I must admit however you sorta hung yourself with your own words there. Since when did you become the deciding factor on saw design, hmmmm, are you a saw designer by trade? If so I will gladly buy one of your saws. Fact is Ben when you say a man that has run saws for 25 years, and does it everyday of the week, making a living with them isn't quailified to pass any judgement on a saw pretty well says your off in la la land. Take a breather Ben.


----------



## bwalker (Sep 7, 2006)

I know its easier to spew th company line than to think, but you take it to a whole new level.:deadhorse: 
The powerstroke most certainly is produced by Ford. Specificly the Navistar engine division.
BTW re read what I have said.. It has nothign to do with dealers, but rather has to do with selling crap that rides on the coat tails of a good brand name and a few good pro products. Husky does the exact same thing with the orange poulans.

Rich, it is nice to buy local if as you say the price is right. I might buy a saw over the net, but only if I have a local dealer where I can get parts quickly as this is critical. Service is not usefull to me, but it maybe be to some, which is another plus of buying local. Supporting some dip????e that has a stihlhuskydolmar sign over his door isnt on my list of things that matter.


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 7, 2006)

rahtreelimbs said:


> Alot of my recent saw purchases ( last 3-4 years ) have been from the internet. Mostly from the guys I met through here. I have to say though that buying Stihl 361 and most recent the 441 from a local dealer was nice!
> 
> As long as the price is right I will go through a dealer first!



Rich where are you located???


----------



## bwalker (Sep 7, 2006)

> Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Ben just in case you didn't know but uhhhhhhhh saws are designed and made for people to cut wood with, you know to saw wood with, you know, like loggers and arborist's. I must admit however you sorta hung yourself with your own words there. Since when did you become the deciding factor on saw design, hmmmm, are you a saw designer by trade? If so I will gladly buy one of your saws. Fact is Ben when you say a man that has run saws for 25 years, and does it everyday of the week, making a living with them isn't quailified to pass any judgement on a saw pretty well says your off in la la land. Take a breather Ben.


 Your reading comprehension level is on par with a three toed sloth. 
If you think a tree trimmer or a logger are qualified to judge the relative engineering merits of two saw designs by simply looking at them your sadly mistaken. I would wager to say that anyone that makes a judgment based on looking at somehting alone isnt the sharpest tool in the shed in the first place, but thats painfully obvious.opcorn: 
I never have claimed to judge saws based on looks or what brand they happened to be. Truth is using chicken bones or tea leaves might be more usefull in evaluating saws than you suposed customers magic eye.I only make judgments after I have used them for a prolonged period of time, but of course you know that.


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 7, 2006)

bwalker said:


> I know its easier to spew th company line than to think, but you take it to a whole new level.:deadhorse:
> The powerstroke most certainly is produced by Ford. Specificly the Navistar engine division.
> BTW re read what I have said.. It has nothign to do with dealers, but rather has to do with selling crap that rides on the coat tails of a good brand name and a few good pro products. Husky does the exact same thing with the orange poulans.
> 
> Rich, it is nice to buy local if as you say the price is right. I might buy a saw over the net, but only if I have a local dealer where I can get parts quickly as this is critical. Service is not usefull to me, but it maybe be to some, which is another plus of buying local. Supporting some dip????e that has a stihlhuskydolmar sign over his door isnt on my list of things that matter.



Well I'll be dayumm Ben you told me something I didn't know and something apparently Ford forgot. The last PowerStroke diesel engine I seen had International written on both valve covers. Are you telling me Ford is now making their own PowerStroke diesel engine, cool.


----------



## rahtreelimbs (Sep 7, 2006)

rahtreelimbs said:


> Alot of my recent saw purchases ( last 3-4 years ) have been from the internet. Mostly from the guys I met through here. I have to say though that buying Stihl 361 and most recent the 441 from a local dealer was nice!
> 
> As long as the price is right I will go through a dealer first!





THALL10326 said:


> Rich where are you located???




Pittsburgh, Pa..........why???

Don't send Dan up here............then none of the 441's will start and I will have smoke in my outhouse!!!

That reminds me...........I need more toilet paper in there!!!


----------



## SmokinDodge (Sep 7, 2006)

bwalker said:


> I know its easier to spew th company line than to think, but you take it to a whole new level.:deadhorse:
> The powerstroke most certainly is produced by Ford. Specificly the Navistar engine division.
> BTW re read what I have said.. It has nothign to do with dealers, but rather has to do with selling crap that rides on the coat tails of a good brand name and a few good pro products. Husky does the exact same thing with the orange poulans.
> 
> Rich, it is nice to buy local if as you say the price is right. I might buy a saw over the net, but only if I have a local dealer where I can get parts quickly as this is critical. Service is not usefull to me, but it maybe be to some, which is another plus of buying local. Supporting some dip????e that has a stihlhuskydolmar sign over his door isnt on my list of things that matter.



87 pages and it isn't till now I find something to post.  

The powerstroke most certainly is NOT produced by Ford. It is made by International. As for the specific Navistar comment, Check out http://www.internationaldelivers.co...ion.asp?id=697&group=corporate&name=Corporate.

To save you time here is a direct cut n paste taken directly from International's website: Navistar International Corporation


----------



## bwalker (Sep 7, 2006)

> Well I'll be dayumm Ben you told me something I didn't know and something apparently Ford forgot. The last PowerStroke diesel engine I seen had International written on both valve covers. Are you telling me Ford is now making their own PowerStroke diesel engine, cool.


 Google Navistar, smart guy.
http://money.cnn.com/services/tickerheadlines/prn/200608221605PR_NEWS_USPR_____CGTU046.htm


----------



## SmokinDodge (Sep 7, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Well I'll be dayumm Ben you told me something I didn't know and something apparently Ford forgot. The last PowerStroke diesel engine I seen had International written on both valve covers. Are you telling me Ford is now making their own PowerStroke diesel engine, cool.



That explains the 6.0 liter!  :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 7, 2006)

bwalker said:


> Your reading comprehension level is on par with a three toed sloth.
> If you think a tree trimmer or a logger are qualified to judge the relative engineering merits of two saw designs by simply looking at them your sadly mistaken. I would wager to say that anyone that makes a judgment based on looking at somehting alone isnt the sharpest tool in the shed in the first place, but thats painfully obvious.opcorn:
> I never have claimed to judge saws based on looks or what brand they happened to be. Truth is using chicken bones or tea leaves might be more usefull in evaluating saws than you suposed customers magic eye.I only make judgments after I have used them for a prolonged period of time, but of course you know that.



Ok Ben then you leave me no chocie, are you a saw designer? Just out of curiosty what is it you do for a living? I mean its about time you back up all that knowledge your spitting out so lets hear what it is that you actually do for a living. (All EARS ON THIS ONE BEN)


----------



## bwalker (Sep 7, 2006)

> The powerstroke most certainly is NOT produced by Ford. It is made by International. As for the specific Navistar comment, Check out http://www.internationaldelivers.com...name=Corporate.


\
Ford owns Navistar International.


----------



## THALL10326 (Sep 7, 2006)

bwalker said:


> Google Navistar, smart guy.
> http://money.cnn.com/services/tickerheadlines/prn/200608221605PR_NEWS_USPR_____CGTU046.htm



LOLOL, naaaaaaaaaaa Ben I'll raise the hood and look,LOLOLOL 

Fact is I don't know about now but all the PowerStrokes I ever seen in Ford truck a few years back were made by International. If thats changed cool beans Ben. I really don't keep up with Ford.


----------



## rahtreelimbs (Sep 7, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Beings no one seems to have tried out the new Stihl 441 Mag as of yet, I took it upon myself today to buy one and to let all you saw buffs know what the scoop is on the machine.
> Here are the facts. As Stihl claims its way smoother than the 440 by a mile. In the hand or in the wood its extremely smooth. The vibe system some would say is a copy of Husky but look at it closely and you will see its much more than a copy. Its Stihl's new system, not a copy.
> The filtration system uses the big air filter just like the 660 though the dirt is suppose to be channeled away from the filter. I didn't run it long enough to verify all that but will.
> Ok, the part everyone is interested in, how does it run and cut. First off, like the whole saw itself, it cranks real smooth. Another pleasure was the trigger interlock, its super smooth as well. Once fired up I was surprised at how well and fast it reved up. It goes from idle to top speed in a flash. Does not sound like the Stihl's of old, sounds more like the 361 with a deeper tone to it. After I fired it up I handed it to my brother who happened to be checking it out with me. He reved it a few times and said its sounds like a hot rod 361 but feels smoother. He recently bought a 361 and loves it. We took it up behind the barn where we have some big logs laying around. I put it in a 20 inch oak and it walked through it like nothing. Has a awful lot of pulling power in the cut, or torque as most would say. Holds its rpm's very well. That brother of mine says no no no, that oak is soft wood. He finds a soild hickory log about 16-18inches around and says now there's a true test. I hand him the saw and said go for it. He laid into the log and the saw never let up, it walked through it just like the oak. He was all smiles to say the least. He then says this saw is one bad mother.
> ...




Let us jump back in time!!!


----------



## Asskckr (Nov 11, 2006)

Ain't this thred a little short?


----------



## Lakeside53 (Nov 11, 2006)

Yep.. about 3800 (approx!) short... Something is messed up; the system thinks its got 5002 posts, but fails to take you there.. All our hard work down the tubes.


----------



## talon1189 (Nov 11, 2006)

Oh boy...........Da Prince thread is back........Lets have some more fun




>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Talon


----------



## trimmmed (Nov 11, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> Yep.. about 3800 (approx!) short... Something is messed up; the system thinks its got 5002 posts, but fails to take you there.. All our hard work down the tubes.



Yikes!! I'm working on it, It shows 5004 posts, not sure why it ends on this page though :taped:


----------



## spacemule (Nov 12, 2006)

I cannot get to the last page in this thread. I get an error message from Firefox. In fact, I doubt I'll be able to read this post even if it posts.


----------



## SawTroll (Nov 13, 2006)

:jawdrop: :jawdrop: :jawdrop: Hopefully there is a backup copy somewhere????

...or isn't it????


----------



## Sprig (Nov 13, 2006)

SawTroll said:


> :jawdrop: :jawdrop: Hopefully there is a backup copy somewhere????
> 
> ...or isn't it????



Ya Ya! I was so lookin' forward to seeing how it all ended, :taped: now I'm just a shattered shell dashed upon the rocks (scotch on da rocks that is)   

opcorn: opcorn:


----------



## talon1189 (Nov 13, 2006)

I vote to reopen it and keep it going  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Talon


----------



## SawTroll (Nov 13, 2006)

It doesn't help to reopen it, when most of the posts are gone.....umpkin2: umpkin2:


----------



## talon1189 (Nov 13, 2006)

Welp..........I always like to move forward and rarely read old post from more than 2 pages back  So Troll......how is da SawWitch doing



 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Talon


----------



## Just Mow (Nov 13, 2006)

I thought this was closed


----------



## SawWitch (Nov 14, 2006)

talon1189 said:


> ....  So Troll......how is da SawWitch doing
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm just fine, thank you - we have been at the cottage for a few days, but returned yesterday.


  I like your witch smiley, but there should been a saw there.....:biggrinbounce2:


----------



## SawTroll (Nov 15, 2006)

*Resque Tom Hall!!!!!*

.....he hasn't been posting for some time.

Hopefully the admins and mods can free Tom Hall from his captivity within the missing part of this tread pretty soon, or he will starve to death.....


----------



## talon1189 (Nov 15, 2006)

SawTroll said:


> .....he hasn't been posting for some time.
> 
> Hopefully the admins and mods can free Tom Hall from his captivity within the missing part of this tread pretty soon, or he will starve to death.....


 Troll.......da rumor going around is Manual and Ultra kidnapped Thall and are brainwashing him into da Jonesered/Husky world and won't let'em outta of his "outhouse" until he starts a brand new thread. They are said to be feeding him some of his own BS so he is full and not starving at least.....LOL!



Hahahaha      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Talon


----------



## Lakeside53 (Nov 16, 2006)

Na.. He's in there with my salesgirl.. grrrr...... :censored: :censored:

Hey., I just lost about 300 of my post count??? Looks like the Prince Thread is going to hell in a hand..


----------



## 04ultra (Nov 16, 2006)

talon1189 said:


> Troll.......da rumor going around is Manual and Ultra kidnapped Thall and are brainwashing him into da Jonesered/Husky world and won't let'em outta of his "outhouse" until he starts a brand new thread. They are said to be feeding him some of his own BS so he is full and not starving at least.....LOL!
> 
> 
> 
> Hahahaha >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Talon




LOL I would never push Husky/ zebra on a friend.. :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: 


.


----------



## RaisedByWolves (Nov 16, 2006)

WTF is going on?










Ak, Im going to bed.......


----------



## SawTroll (Nov 16, 2006)

*Yes - wtf is going on!* :bang: :bang: 

My post count took a "dip" again, this time over 70 posts are missing I believe, and it didn't happen just to me.....  

*Wonder what has been deleted this time?*


----------



## SawTroll (Nov 16, 2006)

talon1189 said:


> Troll.......da rumor going around is Manual and Ultra kidnapped Thall and are brainwashing him into da Jonesered/Husky world and won't let'em outta of his "outhouse" until he starts a brand new thread. They are said to be feeding him some of his own BS so he is full and not starving at least.....LOL!
> 
> 
> 
> Hahahaha   .... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Talon


 OK, thats logic - I tend to believe that rumor.....:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## belgian (Nov 17, 2006)

> Troll.......da rumor going around is Manual and Ultra kidnapped Thall and are brainwashing him into da Jonesered/Husky world and won't let'em outta of his "outhouse" until he starts a brand new thread. They are said to be feeding him some of his own BS so he is full and not starving at least.....LOL!




LooooooL. The Shepherd cannot be converted...., nooooo way. 
I think he's retired for some time. Selling so many Stihl stuff wears a man out  Da man needs a well deserved rest then.

When he returns, AS is gonna shake upon its foundations, with Troll buying Huskies and all....

PS. I still miss the remainder of da Prince thread. I worked so hard on post 5002 and I still can't revisit it...
Dan, is it finally gone for good ???


----------



## trimmmed (Nov 17, 2006)

Hang on Belgian, I'll see if I can take a pic of it for you


----------



## trimmmed (Nov 17, 2006)




----------



## THALL10326 (Nov 17, 2006)

*The Shepherd Saw And It Was Good*






Sideburns and doo, my my my, hehehe

As he looked at his flock the Shepherd was pleased indeed.


----------



## talon1189 (Nov 17, 2006)

Hey thar Thall............where's da Elvis sunglasses at? :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## THALL10326 (Nov 17, 2006)

talon1189 said:


> Hey thar Thall............where's da Elvis sunglasses at? :hmm3grin2orange:




Well I tell ya baby, back then I was so hot I didn't need them,LOLOL, the burns and doo did it all,


----------



## talon1189 (Nov 17, 2006)

THALL10326 said:


> Well I tell ya baby, back then I was so hot I didn't need them,LOLOL, the burns and doo did it all,


Daaaaayuuum..........Wish dat I was dat Kool  Ya really look like Clint Eastwood back in da Dirty Harry days to be honest  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Talon


----------



## THALL10326 (Nov 17, 2006)

talon1189 said:


> Daaaaayuuum..........Wish dat I was dat Kool  Ya really look like Clint Eastwood back in da Dirty Harry days to be honest  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Talon




Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa I was 38 then, Clint was hot then,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## talon1189 (Nov 17, 2006)

Yup..........Was dat before you graduated from da School for Shepherds? Damn..........it dem heathens wooda knew what was comin back then...........Hahahaha.......:hmm3grin2orange: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Talon


----------



## THALL10326 (Nov 17, 2006)

talon1189 said:


> Yup..........Was dat before you graduated from da School for Shepherds? Damn..........it dem heathens wooda knew what was comin back then...........Hahahaha.......:hmm3grin2orange: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Talon


----------



## Lakeside53 (Nov 18, 2006)

Hey, If Trimmed can't find the missing 3800 (or so) posts, are we taking this back to 5000 the hard way, again?:monkey:


----------



## 04ultra (Nov 18, 2006)

Lakeside53 said:


> Hey, If Trimmed can't find the missing 3800 (or so) posts, are we taking this back to 5000 the hard way, again?:monkey:




I say 6000 to make up for lost time...  


.


----------



## THALL10326 (Nov 18, 2006)

04ultra said:


> I say 6000 to make up for lost time...
> 
> 
> .



Hmmmmmmmmm obvious you didn't see the burns and doo of Dirty Harry. So tell me, did I shoot five times or six, go ahead punk make my day,LOLOLOLOLOL 

6000, are you crazyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy. Wait a minute you are, I'm getting the hell outta here,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:


----------



## Gologit (Nov 18, 2006)

04ultra said:


> I say 6000 to make up for lost time...
> 
> 
> .



Yup!   Get the usual suspects together...shouldn't be any problem at all. Get yourself ready Thall...we can do this one real easy.


----------



## belgian (Nov 19, 2006)

> Hmmmmmmmmm obvious you didn't see the burns and doo of Dirty Harry. So tell me, did I shoot five times or six, go ahead punk make my day,LOLOLOLOLOL



Lol, dirty Harry was a cool dude indeed. Didn't know he had a brother down in Leesburg, though:blob5: 



> 6000, are you crazyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy. Wait a minute you are, I'm getting the hell outta here,:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:



I am outta here too. My boss :jester: has theatened to take my laptop away if I continue to mention the Prince thread again....


----------

