# About to buy gear, need advice



## Plasmech (Jan 8, 2009)

Well I've done the following:

1. Read The Tree Climber's Companion three times front to back

2. Hooked up with a hardcore pro from the west. Sadly, he just lost a friend to a snag.

3. Mastered tying, dressing, and setting every knot in the Climber's Companion with my eyes closed. Every night I do every knot five times in the dark after my wife goes to bed.

So....guess what boys, it's now time to go out and get myself killed, yee haw!

But, to kill myself, I need some gear first. This is what I am thinking:

1. Petzl Navajo sit saddle ($189). Or maybe just upgrade to the "fast" for an extra $20. I know Petzl well, used to rock climb.

2. Yale 5/8" x 10' wire-core flip line

3. Yale 5/16" Prusik cord

4. micro-pulley with "dog leash" latch

5. Petzl locking 'biners (own from rock days)

6. Buckingham spikes, use current Timberland boots with heel

7. Petzl helmet

My first project that my pro is going to help me with is a pine take-down. Spike up, limb, spike up, top, block down. No limb walking. Spiking attire only. Stihl MS192 TC will be my weapon untill she gets too thick. After that all I have is a heavy-ass farm boss..ugh.

Anyway, am I missing anything? Can I save money anywhere? Thanks!


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## Nailsbeats (Jan 8, 2009)

Get yourself a '78 Pontiac, and a brick. Get in, shut your eyes, and combine the two.


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## Plasmech (Jan 8, 2009)

Nailsbeats said:


> Get yourself a '78 Pontiac, and a brick. Get in, shut your eyes, and combine the two.



I just don't get it. But then again, if I did, I'd be no better off, asshat.


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## Blakesmaster (Jan 8, 2009)

I think you forgot the deer stand.


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## Plasmech (Jan 8, 2009)

Blakesmaster said:


> I think you forgot the deer stand.



Oh yea, and the shotgun too. I #### you guys not on that deer stand story, it was my uncle. Believe what you want to believe.


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## fishercat (Jan 8, 2009)

*well for starters........*



Plasmech said:


> Well I've done the following:
> 
> 1. Read The Tree Climber's Companion three times front to back
> 
> ...



1. i wouldn't get that saddle.

2. i'd get the 12' wire core flip line.

3. i go with a split tail for now.get some experience.

4. goes with your split tail.

5. i wouldn't climb on those.sell them on a rock climbing forum.

6.if those Timberlands don't have a steel shank,you won't be on those Buckinghams long.

7. what for?


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## Plasmech (Jan 9, 2009)

fishercat said:


> 1. i wouldn't get that saddle.
> 
> 2. i'd get the 12' wire core flip line.
> 
> ...



What's wrong with the Petzl saddle in your opinion? What would you go with?

What is wrong with Petzl 'biners? OK *maybe* their saddles suck, however I refuse to believe their 'biners will break below rated load, that just ain't going to happen. Unless you mean something else?

How do I know if a boot has a steel shank? Thanks!!!


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## woodchux (Jan 9, 2009)

Try to bend the shoe toe and heel together.. if it bends alot then there is no shank.


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## woodchux (Jan 9, 2009)

You dont want to be using a brand new steelcore lanyard on a pine tree either.


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## fishercat (Jan 9, 2009)

*i'm not saying there is anything wrong with their saddles.*



Plasmech said:


> What's wrong with the Petzl saddle in your opinion? What would you go with?
> 
> What is wrong with Petzl 'biners? OK *maybe* their saddles suck, however I refuse to believe their 'biners will break below rated load, that just ain't going to happen. Unless you mean something else?
> 
> How do I know if a boot has a steel shank? Thanks!!!



i would go with a batton seat until you get more experience and your muscles get used to climbing.as a new climber,you will be doing a lot of resting and you will be glad you took my advice.
here is what i would recommend for you to learn in.they sell well on ebay when you are ready to move up to something else.

http://www.treestuff.com/store/catalog.asp?category_id=10&item=922

industry standards require a locking feature to back up the closing of the carabiner.the load rating is not the issue here.tree climbing and rock climbing are two different things as well as the different elements involved with each.

previous post is correct about the steel shank.it's very rare that a manufacturer does not disclose the fact that a boot with a steel shank has one.spending more money in this area cannot be stressed enough.it is the difference between comfort and misery.the longer you feel comfortable in the tree,the longer you will stay.being miserable in the tree and only wanting to get down will distract you from learning and getting better as a climber.

this are things i learned the hard way since i had no one to teach me in the very beginning.this is all based on personnal experience. fortunately you found this site before you got further ahead.i wish i had.


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## emr (Jan 9, 2009)

I think you forgot to mention a climbing line.


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## NHCowboy (Jan 9, 2009)

If I used "my" rock climbing stuff, I think my wife would shoot me.


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## tomtrees58 (Jan 9, 2009)

emr said:


> I think you forgot to mention a climbing line.



don't tell him that he wood look good at 100 ft with out it he he tom trees


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## Plasmech (Jan 9, 2009)

I am not worried about a climbing line yet, I am doing take-downs that do not require me to leave the trunk...lanyard and secondary back-up are what I need.


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## Plasmech (Jan 9, 2009)

fishercat said:


> i would go with a batton seat until you get more experience and your muscles get used to climbing.as a new climber,you will be doing a lot of resting and you will be glad you took my advice.
> here is what i would recommend for you to learn in.they sell well on ebay when you are ready to move up to something else.
> 
> http://www.treestuff.com/store/catalog.asp?category_id=10&item=922
> ...



Thanks. What's a batton seat? How is it different? By the way, the Petzl caribiners do have a locking feature.


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## NHCowboy (Jan 9, 2009)

No, our locking biners need to have a way to lock the locking device. These biners have a twist lock with a detent button to ensure the lock stays engaged. Screw gates can be unscrewed by a rope passing through or simply handling it.


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## ozzy42 (Jan 9, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> I am not worried about a climbing line yet, I am doing take-downs that do not require me to leave the trunk...lanyard and secondary back-up are what I need.


You need a climbing line.
You can't get out of the tree quickly without one,especially when you need to the most,,,,, if you are injured.
With a climbing line,you can get to the ground in a few seconds with only one hand,if need be.

And yes my friend,that could be a matter of life and death


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## moss (Jan 9, 2009)

Not likely that I'll convince you but here's something to think about...

Before bringing a chainsaw up into a tree a person has to learn how to BE in a tree. That takes some time, can't be instantly learned by reading a book. So if you were my next door neighbor I would recommend the following...

Learn how to climb. Don't carry a chain saw up, for a while. Don't even bring a hand saw up. Just climb, get very familiar with your climbing system with many hours in trees. Build up your climbing skill and strength. Climb with experienced climbers, observe how they move in the tree (instant humility, there's a lot you don't know yet, just watching a good climber will teach you volumes). When you start carrying a hand saw make your first cuts pruning deadwood. Start with small stuff, see how it behaves, learn how to control it when you drop it. Move up to larger branches, learn how to rig it down with a rope. Remember you're still using a hand saw. Learn how to prune live branches properly, study the branch collar, tree anatomy etc. Ok, maybe now you're ready to bring a chain saw up and survive, maybe.

If you have to have a tree down now go find someone qualified to do it.
-moss


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## davej (Jan 9, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> Every night I do every knot five times in the dark after my wife goes to bed.



Do you untie her or does she have to escape?;-)



Plasmech said:


> My first project that my pro is going to help me with is a pine take-down. Spike up, limb, spike up, top, block down.



Chunking down a large pine spar as a "first project?" Now we are back in troll land.


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## treemandan (Jan 9, 2009)

moss said:


> Not likely that I'll convince you but here's something to think about...
> 
> Before bringing a chainsaw up into a tree a person has to learn how to BE in a tree. That takes some time, can't be instantly learned by reading a book. So if you were my next door neighbor I would recommend the following...
> 
> ...



" You must be the ball, nahn, nahn, nahn, nahn" 
Author, Ty Web


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## moss (Jan 9, 2009)

treemandan said:


> " You must be the ball, nahn, nahn, nahn, nahn"
> Author, Ty Web



I always thought Caddyshack was a source of deep wisdom.
-moss


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## fishercat (Jan 9, 2009)

*exactly.*



ozzy42 said:


> You need a climbing line.
> You can't get out of the tree quickly without one,especially when you need to the most,,,,, if you are injured.
> With a climbing line,you can get to the ground in a few seconds with only one hand,if need be.
> 
> And yes my friend,that could be a matter of life and death



i should have mentioned this myself.plus working of an anchor point above you makes moving around easier.


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## fishercat (Jan 9, 2009)

*excellent advice.*



moss said:


> Not likely that I'll convince you but here's something to think about...
> 
> Before bringing a chainsaw up into a tree a person has to learn how to BE in a tree. That takes some time, can't be instantly learned by reading a book. So if you were my next door neighbor I would recommend the following...
> 
> ...



i wish i had started with a hand saw in the beginning.i use it now more than my chainsaw.it's a life saver.


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## Plasmech (Jan 10, 2009)

davej said:


> Do you untie her or does she have to escape?;-)
> 
> 
> 
> Chunking down a large pine spar as a "first project?" Now we are back in troll land.



That's right. I am learning how to do tree work, therefore I MUST be a troll. I have yet to see the word "troll" use correctly once on this forum. Was there a serious problem with real trolls at some point in this forum's past or what?

I've been talking to some pro's in person and they never seem to have a problem with me, in fact they like me.


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## Plasmech (Jan 10, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> Plas I'd not weight myself down with unnecessary gear starting off. The climbing rope can wait until you get more experience in the field.
> 
> Follow your bliss!



Giving bad safety advice intentionally, hoping someone gets hurt, that is super cool. I mean that is a REALLY cool thing to do. So cool in fact it probably warrants banning, in my opinion.


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## DK_stihl (Jan 10, 2009)

moss said:


> Not likely that I'll convince you but here's something to think about...
> 
> Before bringing a chainsaw up into a tree a person has to learn how to BE in a tree. That takes some time, can't be instantly learned by reading a book. So if you were my next door neighbor I would recommend the following...
> 
> ...



I would agree that you should start with a handsaw first. I would also say that you might want to master "rope climbing" before starting into climbing with spurs. After you get rope climbing down, using spikes will seem easy. At least that how it was for me. Good luck and stay safe, everyone has to learn sometime, you at least are making a good effort.:yoyo:


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## DK_stihl (Jan 10, 2009)

*Life line*

I should also add that using a climbing line while on spikes allows you to get tools from the ground, so I would highly recommend using one, as it is very efficient, as well as safer and opens up better positioning options. 
Take care.


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## md_tree_dood (Jan 10, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> I am not worried about a climbing line yet, I am doing take-downs that do not require me to leave the trunk...lanyard and secondary back-up are what I need.




With your attitude, I question why you're even posting as you seem to pretty much have an answer to everything.

That being said, e2e or split tail, doesn't matter. Go with a batton seat to start out. Leg straps are much better for moving and climbing but you'll be uncomfortable for a long time until you learn proper body positioning etc. Why get a wire core flip line? Not nearly as pliable or as versatile. Get a climbing line. When you get tired, scared, uncomfortable, you can come down without having to use your spikes. And finally, 192 is about as useful as a handsaw, if you're buying spend the money and get a 200T


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## DK_stihl (Jan 10, 2009)

md_tree_dood said:


> With your attitude, I question why you're even posting as you seem to pretty much have an answer to everything.
> 
> That being said, e2e or split tail, doesn't matter. Go with a batton seat to start out. Leg straps are much better for moving and climbing but you'll be uncomfortable for a long time until you learn proper body positioning etc. Why get a wire core flip line? Not nearly as pliable or as versatile. Get a climbing line. When you get tired, scared, uncomfortable, you can come down without having to use your spikes.



He might want a wire core lanyard for the safety factor. They also "flip" better than rope lanyards when spiking up a spar. I totally agree with you about the climbing line though. It also would help you to be tied in twice. After I blow the top out of a tree, I always choker my life line to to spar as a back up.


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## Plasmech (Jan 10, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> If you need to get to the ground quickly look for a soft spot and just take a flying leap!




Sometimes I ponder what heaven is like. I'm starting to think that it's simply the world we live in now, but without TreeCo. 

Seriously dude, WHAT is your problem with me? I did nothing to you, nothing whatsoever. You just arbitrarily decided to despise me for no reason.


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## Plasmech (Jan 10, 2009)

TreeCo said:


> I'm just playing along.
> 
> You ask blistering stupid questions....
> 
> ...



So what you are saying is that this is not a forum for beginners trying to learn, but rather guys who are experienced? Is this a directive from the owner of the forum, of from you? Did the owner of the forum state that the Arborist 101 section is to only be used by seasoned pro's? I'd like to see that email, perhaps you can post it. 

Also, allow me to ask you a personal question: how old are you? An appropriate answer would be a number, not "older than you, son" or any other spammish reply.


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## Stihl Alive (Jan 10, 2009)

woodchux said:


> You dont want to be using a brand new steelcore lanyard on a pine tree either.




why not? and define "brand new" if you will. 

I've been using mine on pines since it was new with no problem. Am I missing something?


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## Plasmech (Jan 10, 2009)

Stihl Alive said:


> why not? and define "brand new" if you will.
> 
> I've been using mine on pines since it was new with no problem. Am I missing something?



I was wondering the same thing. One really has to take advice given over the internet with a grain of salt. Yesterday I was repeating some of the stuff I've read on here to a "real life" pro, and he was like what the hell? I quickly stopped parroting back this stuff before I made a total ass of myself! There's a few real-deal pro's on here. My favorite is Reg, he's cool! 

The other thing you will run into on any forum is posers...people on an aviation site who claim to be a 747 pilot who never even piloted a small plane. The internet allows people to live their dreams in a fantasy kind of way. Sorry to go off on a tangent!


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## DK_stihl (Jan 10, 2009)

*Pretenders*



Plasmech said:


> I was wondering the same thing. One really has to take advice given over the internet with a grain of salt. Yesterday I was repeating some of the stuff I've read on here to a "real life" pro, and he was like what the hell? I quickly stopped parroting back this stuff before I made a total ass of myself! There's a few real-deal pro's on here. My favorite is Reg, he's cool!
> 
> The other thing you will run into on any forum is posers...people on an aviation site who claim to be a 747 pilot who never even piloted a small plane. The internet allows people to live their dreams in a fantasy kind of way. Sorry to go off on a tangent!



You're right about that. But sooner or later they say something that gives them away, when they do it's pretty obvious!


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## Blakesmaster (Jan 10, 2009)

Stihl Alive said:


> why not? and define "brand new" if you will.
> 
> I've been using mine on pines since it was new with no problem. Am I missing something?



The only logical reason for not using a new lanyard on pine that I can think of is the sap build up. I think it was JPS that was telling me he always uses bit pieces of old climbing line for lanyards when working in pine.


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## woodchux (Jan 10, 2009)

Stihl Alive said:


> why not? and define "brand new" if you will.
> 
> I've been using mine on pines since it was new with no problem. Am I missing something?



Personally i always use a steelcore, but if you get a brand new one all gunked up with pine sap it can be a real PITA to adjust your friction hitch. I use an ascender type adjuster so not as much of an issue , but gunking up brand new gear gets me ill. Also i never wear any new clothes if we are doing pine trees that day...


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## emr (Jan 10, 2009)

This thread is already de-railled so here comes more de-railling. If you use a lanyard with a Microcender type adjuster, is sap on the rope an issue at all? I currently use a hitch on my lanyard and I know what evergreens do to those, but I do have several other lanyards with Microcenders that I might be switching to. Anyway, I guess I am asking if the pitch on the rope will affect the mechanical adjuster at all?

Plasmech, one word of warning to you. Make sure your pro buddy is actually a professional arborist and not some hack that makes you think he/they have all the answers. Everything you mentioned about the Internet is very true, but you should use the same cation with "real" people too. I don't consider myself a new-b any more and I am always happy to see new arborists posting questions. The more you are on this site, the easier it will be to figure out who's full of it and who's not. In the mean time, keep posting and I hope everyone will be nice and helpful towards you.


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## fishercat (Jan 11, 2009)

*i never had a problem with sap on my lanyard.*

it's a wire core with rope grab.we do a lot of white pines here.always oozing sap.

i also use my 192t a lot more than my 200t.you don't usually need the 200 till you're in the stalk.


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## SLlandscape (Jan 11, 2009)

Plas, don't' worry about treeco. he's all pissed off because he hasn't't had his daily bowel movement. People are just that way sometime don't let him get to you, he is what he is. In this particular thread he is the one that sounds like a troll, don't ya think. take your time, get familiar with all the gear and tools, pay attention to what advice and teaching you get from guys who know what they are doing and you should be doing pretty good in the next couple of years.

Good luck and stay safe.


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## Rftreeman (Jan 11, 2009)

this thread is full of useless junk so let me add mine to the mix........................................ok, there it is


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## randyg (Jan 11, 2009)

Plas, I highly recommend re-reading post #18 by MOSS. Very good scoop there. A tad on the conservative side but slow and steady wins the race in this business. Haste makes waste, or injury or even death, so humbly continue your search for truth about the safest way both here on this site, and with your "pro" aquaintences. Good luck


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## Dadatwins (Jan 11, 2009)

Nailsbeats said:


> Get yourself a '78 Pontiac, and a brick. Get in, shut your eyes, and combine the two.



Don't forget to position the vehicle on a short path with a long drop.


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## Dadatwins (Jan 11, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> I am not worried about a climbing line yet, I am doing take-downs that do not require me to leave the trunk...lanyard and secondary back-up are what I need.



Even though it is only the beginning of January, I nominate this for post of the year 2009. :jawdrop:


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## tree MDS (Jan 11, 2009)

Plas man, treework aint a hobby. If you really want to learn treework go drag some brush already! No shortcuts buddy, its already been said you just dont want to hear it - possibly because its too much like work??

Aint nobody gonna learn treework off the internet. I'm sure if you really did get a job dragging brush you would meet some real nice people that you could take home to mom - the industry is just littered with nice chaps that would be very helpful in showing you the direction to the nearest BRUSH PILE!


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## NHCowboy (Jan 11, 2009)

Come on man... I think we all understand that middle aged guys aren't going to jump in as a brush hauler making $8 an hour. It's just not worth our time, and your average homeowner has done plenty of chipping and hauling. A healthy book-knowledge (yes, these are written in blood) and a $600 climbing kit will allow a homeowner to take care of his own trees safely enough. Half of this stuff is common sense or intuitive to anyone that wants to think it through. Doesn't take a rocket scientist [or a reactor operator] to do it.
Plasmech has tapped every resource possible... just try to be helpful.

Sorry, dude, one more less'n helpfull post for this bastard-thread-from-hell. I just couldn't take it anymore from the uppity nor easterners...


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## Plasmech (Jan 11, 2009)

NHCowboy said:


> Come on man... I think we all understand that middle aged guys aren't going to jump in as a brush hauler making $8 an hour. It's just not worth our time, and your average homeowner has done plenty of chipping and hauling. A healthy book-knowledge (yes, these are written in blood) and a $600 climbing kit will allow a homeowner to take care of his own trees safely enough. Half of this stuff is common sense or intuitive to anyone that wants to think it through. Doesn't take a rocket scientist [or a reactor operator] to do it.
> Plasmech has tapped every resource possible... just try to be helpful.
> 
> Sorry, dude, one more less'n helpfull post for this bastard-thread-from-hell. I just couldn't take it anymore from the uppity nor easterners...



No, you reply was not worthless. It was right on the money. Sure, if I wanted a CAREER in tree work, feeding a chipper at age 14 would have been a good thing. But I didn't go that route. I went to college to become a mechanical engineer and that's what I do now, and am pretty successful at it. I am pretty confident that I have the intelligence to figure this thing out with books, pro's, and this forum. It's definitely not rocket science. But, I have a LOT of respect for this stuff. I try to think of EVERY possible thing that could go wrong. Also, remember that I am messing around with relatively small, simple trees. I'm not up in a 200-year-old dead oak that was struck by lightening 6 years ago  (well not yet anyway, that's a project for next weekend LOL)

HEY! Wait a minute, I just realized you called me middle-aged. Those are fighting words there boy! Kick your butt into next week! LOL (I am 31 BTW)


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## Plasmech (Jan 11, 2009)

Dadatwins said:


> Even though it is only the beginning of January, I nominate this for post of the year 2009. :jawdrop:




It's a dead pine dude, what am I supposed to rig the lifeline too, a tiny brittle branch at the top? If you have pics of this being done, by all means, post 'em up! Thanks.


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## woodchux (Jan 11, 2009)

You rig a friction saver around the trunk and tie in on that.


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## treemandan (Jan 11, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> No, you reply was not worthless. It was right on the money. Sure, if I wanted a CAREER in tree work, feeding a chipper at age 14 would have been a good thing. But I didn't go that route. I went to college to become a mechanical engineer and that's what I do now, and am pretty successful at it. I am pretty confident that I have the intelligence to figure this thing out with books, pro's, and this forum. It's definitely not rocket science. But, I have a LOT of respect for this stuff. I try to think of EVERY possible thing that could go wrong. Also, remember that I am messing around with relatively small, simple trees. I'm not up in a 200-year-old dead oak that was struck by lightening 6 years ago  (well not yet anyway, that's a project for next weekend LOL)
> 
> HEY! Wait a minute, I just realized you called me middle-aged. Those are fighting words there boy! Kick your butt into next week! LOL (I am 31 BTW)




Yes, for your age you sound like a kid right out of high school AND a dead pine will snatch your life right away from you. It has a number of ways it can do it.
You should shut up now, take some pics, put em up. Looks like you are in the green.


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## Plasmech (Jan 11, 2009)

treemandan said:


> Yes, for your age you sound like a kid right out of high school AND a dead pine will snatch your life right away from you. It has a number of ways it can do it.
> You should shut up now, take some pics, put em up. Looks like you are in the green.



Do I sound like a kid? My posts have been more mature than some of these 50ish guys on here almost every time. 

Let me pose a question: If climbing is SO insanely dangerous, so crazy and reckless, why do YOU guys do it? Maybe you think that because you used to be a groundie that you are immune from death in the tree? Furthermore, if people like you hate me so much for God only knows what reason, why do you keep warning me about being killed? Why not just let it happen, be done with it?

Also, I am no idiot. I am WELL aware that some of the people posting on this forum and others claiming to have years of experience have never set foot in a tree. Even with my limited experience I am starting to be able to sniff some of that out. 

And why do you want pics so bad? Are you gay? If you are, I have no problem with that, it's all good.


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## Rftreeman (Jan 11, 2009)

Plas, I think the problem so of these guys have is the fact that they along with me had to earn our top climbing spots so to speak, kind of like a military thing if you know what I mean, I started as a groundie dragging and chipping brush for what seemed like for ever before I was even allowed to carry a chainsaw other than to fuel it up, my bush axe was my best friend for 3 months even though I knew how to run a saw before I started that job, I had to learn all the knots on the ground and was given a 6 foot piece of rope to practice with, once I learned all the knots then I was issued my climbing gear and started out with a hand saw for about 3 months until I learned to balance myself in the tree then I finally made it to the chainsaw stage, I was a groundie/class C climber for 2 years and a groundie/class B climber for 1 more year then made class A climber which meant no more groundie work, I was a class A climber for 3 years and made foreman.

so, now can you see where some of these guys get their attitudes from, you're stepping on their pride when you just buy gear and jump on a tree, as for me, it doesn't bother me much, the old ways are becoming extinct and people are teaching them selfs as you are, the old timers had to break you down and be sure you were worthy of their training before they would teach you.


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## md_tree_dood (Jan 11, 2009)

After reading all of this thread I'll restate that the gear I'd suggest you buy and why

1) Saddle with a batton seat because it's more comfortable for sitting in and you're not going to be moving through the tree enough for leg straps to be of any real value

2) Climbing line. You can get out of a tree if you choose to. Its a vital piece of gear in every aspect of the trade. You're doing tree work, not logging, get a climbing line.

3) Get a non wire core lanyard. Wire cores aren't as pliable nor as practical for 'everyday' tree work. My personal opinion.

4) The 192 is a waste of money due to its absolute lack of power and if you happen to drop it, you'll most likely ruin the saw as very little is replaceable unlike the 200T.

5) A friction saver if you can afford it is extremely useful when used in conjunction with a climbing line.

Make sure to have someone on the ground who can suggest help when you need it and use a tag line. You'll be uncomfortable and nervous and making notches in a tree is alot harder than when standing on the ground so a tag line will help correct less than perfect notches.


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## treemandan (Jan 11, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> Do I sound like a kid? My posts have been more mature than some of these 50ish guys on here almost every time.
> 
> Let me pose a question: If climbing is SO insanely dangerous, so crazy and reckless, why do YOU guys do it? Maybe you think that because you used to be a groundie that you are immune from death in the tree? Furthermore, if people like you hate me so much for God only knows what reason, why do you keep warning me about being killed? Why not just let it happen, be done with it?
> 
> ...



Oh Yeah, nonstop blathering on an elementery level, but just cause you might get a boot in yor butt for it don't let it bother ya, just stop, please.
On and on from day to day AND about your baby steps. Its fine, its exicting. That should answer your question about why we do it and why you want and why you are being so , well, GAY! ( See now I said something I shouldn't have) 
Look, don't play dumb, the pics of the trees, yor gear, yor knots, yor knees knocking at 20 feet. Lets see what ya got. Hell, I think someone came up to me and punched me right in the face on my first day, I thought it was part of the job.


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## Dadatwins (Jan 11, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> It's a dead pine dude, what am I supposed to rig the lifeline too, a tiny brittle branch at the top? If you have pics of this being done, by all means, post 'em up! Thanks.



The climbing line is your means of access to the ground, besides gravity. If this is your first climb on spikes I highly recomend setting a line in the tree before you start and having someone on the ground to belay you while you ascend. At least if you gaff out or decide at 40' this was a mistake you can get down without calling 911. The chain saw should also stay on the ground until you are secured in the tree. The climbing line is the access to get it. You claim to have read the climbers companion, and I know that Jeff does not recomend climbing without a climbing line, did you read it or just look at Brian's artwork?


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## Plasmech (Jan 11, 2009)

Rftreeman said:


> Plas, I think the problem so of these guys have is the fact that they along with me had to earn our top climbing spots so to speak, kind of like a military thing if you know what I mean, I started as a groundie dragging and chipping brush for what seemed like for ever before I was even allowed to carry a chainsaw other than to fuel it up, my bush axe was my best friend for 3 months even though I knew how to run a saw before I started that job, I had to learn all the knots on the ground and was given a 6 foot piece of rope to practice with, once I learned all the knots then I was issued my climbing gear and started out with a hand saw for about 3 months until I learned to balance myself in the tree then I finally made it to the chainsaw stage, I was a groundie/class C climber for 2 years and a groundie/class B climber for 1 more year then made class A climber which meant no more groundie work, I was a class A climber for 3 years and made foreman.
> 
> so, now can you see where some of these guys get their attitudes from, you're stepping on their pride when you just buy gear and jump on a tree, as for me, it doesn't bother me much, the old ways are becoming extinct and people are teaching them selfs as you are, the old timers had to break you down and be sure you were worthy of their training before they would teach you.




You are EXACTLY exactly right, every word. In fact, tonight at dinner I was thinking of making a post like this, how ironic! This post should be made a sticky LOL.


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## Plasmech (Jan 11, 2009)

treemandan said:


> Oh Yeah, nonstop blathering on an elementery level, but just cause you might get a boot in yor butt for it don't let it bother ya, just stop, please.
> On and on from day to day AND about your baby steps. Its fine, its exicting. That should answer your question about why we do it and why you want and why you are being so , well, GAY! ( See now I said something I shouldn't have)
> Look, don't play dumb, the pics of the trees, yor gear, yor knots, yor knees knocking at 20 feet. Lets see what ya got. Hell, I think someone came up to me and punched me right in the face on my first day, I thought it was part of the job.



If a post or a forum member is annoying you because he's talking on-topic or whatever, did you ever even consider simply ignoring him? Why spam up the thread with personal attacks that have nothing to do with learning the trade? In case you haven't noticed, I am not letting the naysayers get the best of me. I am pushing forward. You have to respect me at least a little for that, come on.


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## chevytaHOE5674 (Jan 11, 2009)

Nothing against you, but you NEED a climbing line at this stage in the game. If anything bad should happen up there it IS the only safe way to the ground. It is also a way to get any kind of tools up to yourself when needed (or even refueling a saw). 

Sure many on here climb on spurs and a flipline without a climbing line, but they also have been in the rodeo for a little while. 

Also IMO a wirecore flipline "flips" easier than some of the alternatives.

For rope I like safety blue as it just feels right to me. I would recommend finding someplace to handle the different ropes and find something you like and will work for your application.


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## Plasmech (Jan 11, 2009)

chevytaHOE5674 said:


> Nothing against you, but you NEED a climbing line at this stage in the game. If anything bad should happen up there it IS the only safe way to the ground. It is also a way to get any kind of tools up to yourself when needed (or even refueling a saw).
> 
> Sure many on here climb on spurs and a flipline without a climbing line, but they also have been in the rodeo for a little while.
> 
> ...



I have to concur with you that a life line is a must. I should not have chosen a pine for my first tree, a small decidious tree that gave me a chance in hell to get a beanbag over a healthy sized limb would have been a MUCH better first tree. OK that will be my second tree! LOL.


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## treemandan (Jan 11, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> If a post or a forum member is annoying you because he's talking on-topic or whatever, did you ever even consider simply ignoring him? Why spam up the thread with personal attacks that have nothing to do with learning the trade? In case you haven't noticed, I am not letting the naysayers get the best of me. I am pushing forward. You have to respect me at least a little for that, come on.



You can't figure out if the boot has a steel shank? What is that? I know, you just want some comfirmation before you commit to something you are unsure of. So you should be.
So basically you are some kind of troll, just trolling quickly with tiny bits of bait with questions so inane. What you really want to say is " Uh, I don't know". Everybody is trollin for something so don't feel bad about it. People do understand but you've been rather more than sort of weetawdded. Steel shank? " Forget it. The band wants to play a new set now, lets go.
I had the same kind of problems as you when I joined. Asking stupid questions. Mine where more of a computer literacy and comprehension plus I never read the rules... completely. 


I will stop taking you seriously soon, that is based on whether you are serious. I can prove I am serious, its my favorite thing to do BUT can you? What do you think of the pics and videos you have seen around here? 
Its great to have some gear but even The Dan had lessons. Want one?


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## sawinredneck (Jan 11, 2009)

Ok, poney up the money and just get a hank of Arborplex. 120' should be around $70, cheap enough and easy to learn with. When/if you hack it up, it was a cheap lesson to learn.
I did a few pines without a wire core, I bought one quick like! It was an uneasy feeling. I even did a small one without a lifeline, bad idea.
You are getting bashed because you think you are too smart, that is what is going to get you hurt. You have little time with a saw on the ground and now want to do TD's? You need to work on the basics on the ground a bit first. Learn making face cuts properly, learn how to do a "snap cut" and a "jump cut" and what effects they have and why. Learn the physics, ASK yourself "What happens when I do this?" Then do it on the ground and learn. When it's in the tree it reacts even differently in the tree.
But you already know all of this.
Just because you know all the knots and how to "dress" them, are you 130% sure they are right? I mean REALLY REALLY SURE? You are putting your life on these.
But you know that also.
So what more would you like us to teach you?

I am an idiot, I know this. I have a lot more balls than brains when it comes to climbing a tree. As I said I used to only free climb, UNTIL my wife watched one day.
I have had to learn this all the hard way myself. I have had SEVERAL GREAT resources and gleaned waht information they would teach me eagerly and humbly. I still don't know JACK!! I am climbing on a hitch that is all but obsolete in today's world, using old style rope and teqnuiches becasue they are SIMPLE for me to learn and use. And without a mentor right here, I cannot trust much of the newer stuff until I can have it double checked correct.
But you probably knew that as well.

So, you knowing all of this, not much anyone can help you with.
Show a little humility, genuine interest, and realistic ways to remove a tree. I think you might get better advice.
But what do I know, I am an idiot.


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## (WLL) (Jan 11, 2009)

*plasmech!!*

what happend ta asking that highly respected pro you know? please tell us who this mystery member is! whats the big secret anyway


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## treemandan (Jan 11, 2009)

(WLL) said:


> what happend ta asking that highly respected pro you know? please tell us who this mystery member is! whats the big secret anyway



whoa! Whoa! That's another thread.


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## Plasmech (Jan 11, 2009)

treemandan said:


> You can't figure out if the boot has a steel shank? What is that? I know, you just want some comfirmation before you commit to something you are unsure of. So you should be.
> So basically you are some kind of troll, just trolling quickly with tiny bits of bait with questions so inane. What you really want to say is " Uh, I don't know". Everybody is trollin for something so don't feel bad about it. People do understand but you've been rather more than sort of weetawdded. Steel shank? " Forget it. The band wants to play a new set now, lets go.
> I had the same kind of problems as you when I joined. Asking stupid questions. Mine where more of a computer literacy and comprehension plus I never read the rules... completely.
> 
> ...



Did the fact that I am asking all these questions in the *ARBORIST 101* forum EVER cross your mind? Why don't you go over to the pro forum if beginner questions upset you so much? Seriously.


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## (WLL) (Jan 11, 2009)

plasmech are you going to answer my question?


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## chevytaHOE5674 (Jan 11, 2009)

(WLL) said:


> plasmech are you going to answer my question?



Doubtful. People in his dreams don't have names.


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## sawinredneck (Jan 11, 2009)

(WLL) said:


> plasmech are you going to answer my question?



Don't take it personal, it was a meaningful question. It seems those require no reply.


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## (WLL) (Jan 11, 2009)

*plasmech*

they name streets after folk like you. u got 5min's ta answer my question or im gonna order a round of red rep to your cup!


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## Nailsbeats (Jan 11, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> Did the fact that I am asking all these questions in the *ARBORIST 101* forum EVER cross your mind? Why don't you go over to the pro forum if beginner questions upset you so much? Seriously.




Did it ever occur to you that as a beginner you should have your questions answered by a pro, not another beginner? Of course it didn't cause your a troll, flat out.


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## (WLL) (Jan 11, 2009)

1


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## (WLL) (Jan 11, 2009)

*2*


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## Nailsbeats (Jan 11, 2009)

I outta bullets.


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## (WLL) (Jan 11, 2009)

*5*have a drink on me u f-er!!!


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## Plasmech (Jan 11, 2009)

Nailsbeats said:


> Did it ever occur to you that as a beginner you should have your questions answered by a pro, not another beginner? Of course it didn't cause your a troll, flat out.



A troll by definition is someone who goes from forum to forum making posts intended to stir up ####. Read that sentence 10 times and memorize it. Now you tell me, how in the hell could asking about gear be seen as intentionally stirring up ####? Or steel shanked boots, I guess if I walk through a pile of dog #### in said boots I am literally stirring up the ####. Or talking about my first climb, lotta #### there. Or asking about different saws? What about climbers, asking about them, that's stirring up ####, right? You know maybe I am a troll, because no matter what I post, some immature low-life feels compelled to hijack the thread with ridiculous lectures for no other than to hear themself talk.


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## Plasmech (Jan 11, 2009)

(WLL) said:


> plasmech are you going to answer my question?



I already told you who it was in another post. pinemartin Don't go mess with him now, he'll probably snap your 'lil chicken neck!


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## (WLL) (Jan 11, 2009)

im thinking all your threads should be in the home owner helper page if you wood have answered my simple ? like i have answered many of yours id a kept it to meself.:angry2:


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## Plasmech (Jan 11, 2009)

(WLL) said:


> im thinking all your threads should be in the home owner helper page if you wood have answered my simple ? like i have answered many of yours id a kept it to meself.:angry2:



OK now you ignore the fact that I answered your question already? Read two posts above this. You are a nut, dude.


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## (WLL) (Jan 11, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> I already told you who it was in another post. pinemartin Don't go mess with him now, he'll probably snap your 'lil chicken neck!


lmao!




who u callin nut?


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## (WLL) (Jan 11, 2009)

howz ya like them nuts!!! you puzzy boy!!!


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## TreeTopKid (Jan 11, 2009)

I've got a Petzl Navaho in my cupboard. I've only used it four times. It's more of a rock climbing harness to my mind. While I'm not encouraging you to climb before you're ready you can have it for $60.00 + shipping if you want to save some cash. It's in great condition and still in the waterproof carry bag.


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## randyg (Jan 11, 2009)

Someone asked for pics. You responded something about being gay. Perhaps they wanted pics of the work being done? I would like to see pics of this dead pine. Couple different angles perhaps? How long has it been dead? What killed it/did it die from? Any bad/soft spots leaking sap maybe? Any sizeable wood pecker holes? Does it have to be climbed? Does it have to be pieced down? 

Dead pine can have compromised root system causing entire tree to tip over while you are in it. Don't climb past ANY bad spots as to ride the top with you tied to it is beyond the typical adreniline rush to say the least. To have read the books and studied the knots and all, you may be able to slowly self teach, just don't start in a dead pine OK?

Randy


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## Plasmech (Jan 11, 2009)

(WLL) said:


> lmao!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice nuts! :sword:


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## Plasmech (Jan 11, 2009)

randyg said:


> Someone asked for pics. You responded something about being gay. Perhaps they wanted pics of the work being done? I would like to see pics of this dead pine. Couple different angles perhaps? How long has it been dead? What killed it/did it die from? Any bad/soft spots leaking sap maybe? Any sizeable wood pecker holes? Does it have to be climbed? Does it have to be pieced down?
> 
> Dead pine can have compromised root system causing entire tree to tip over while you are in it. Don't climb past ANY bad spots as to ride the top with you tied to it is beyond the typical adreniline rush to say the least. To have read the books and studied the knots and all, you may be able to slowly self teach, just don't start in a dead pine OK?
> 
> Randy




Believe me the thought of that puppy being dead goes through my head quite a bit, especially up top where she sways a bit. It's been dead less than a year. Root flare looks OK, soil is hard. I cannot even imagine riding a tree down, that would suck in such a big way. I didn't see any wounds or leaking sap. Well actually it was 30 degrees F when I was in it. I'd like to talk about this tree more with you, if you want.


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## chevytaHOE5674 (Jan 11, 2009)

Plasmech said:


> I'd like to talk about this tree more with you, if you want.



Pictures of said tree will help a lottttt. Dead trees can have lots of hidden dangers as mentioned. Being able to spot the dangers before riding the tree to the ground is the trick. Is the wood sound? (pine rots fast). Any bug damage? (dead pines attract bugs)

Edit: If you know what your listening for a few good whacks with the back of an axe call tell you a lot. Also bark falling or peeling off isn't a good sign either.


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## Plasmech (Jan 11, 2009)

chevytaHOE5674 said:


> Pictures of said tree will help a lottttt. Dead trees can have lots of hidden dangers as mentioned. Being able to spot the dangers before riding the tree to the ground is the trick. Is the wood sound? (pine rots fast). Any bug damage? (dead pines attract bugs)
> 
> Edit: If you know what your listening for a few good whacks with the back of an axe call tell you a lot. Also bark falling or peeling off isn't a good sign either.



Here's the best pic I have of the actual tree:

edit: opps, pic too small...


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## Plasmech (Jan 11, 2009)

chevytaHOE5674 said:


> Pictures of said tree will help a lottttt. Dead trees can have lots of hidden dangers as mentioned. Being able to spot the dangers before riding the tree to the ground is the trick. Is the wood sound? (pine rots fast). Any bug damage? (dead pines attract bugs)
> 
> Edit: If you know what your listening for a few good whacks with the back of an axe call tell you a lot. Also bark falling or peeling off isn't a good sign either.



My biggest fear is that when I drop the top, stresses in the tree will obviously unload, she'll sawy a bit, and I hope she's strong enough to take it, being dead...

Now the top is not leaning at all, but it does have some weight to it.


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## fishercat (Jan 12, 2009)

*i didn't know you were a mechanical engineer!!!*

forget everything i said! 

now,where can i hide?


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