# MS191t: The Most Powerful Stihl TopHandle EVER!



## computeruser (Jan 5, 2007)

Or so we are to believe - 

See it here!

My respect for eBay continues to diminish by the day...


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## fishhuntcutwood (Jan 5, 2007)

You mean it's not?!?! I wanted one, but had to settle for my 200T! :hmm3grin2orange:


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## grossm (Jan 5, 2007)

wow...just wow....


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## fishhuntcutwood (Jan 5, 2007)

Watch Ebay long enough....it just gets worse.


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## bytehoven (Jan 5, 2007)

When I bought the 192T, the dealer said they has to dial the power back a notch, because the 191T was too strong.:jester:


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## whatsnext (Jan 5, 2007)

I'm suprised the guy didn't put .404 on it seeing as how it's so powerful. I do love it where he describes it as an "over the top handle saw", very clever.
John...


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## Adkpk (Jan 5, 2007)

I would bid but then I would have two of the most powerful saws going. :jester:


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## blsnelling (Jan 5, 2007)

I just emailed and asked him how it compares to the 200T. It'll be interesting to see his response.


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## Diesel JD (Jan 5, 2007)

In terms of displacement he's right, but all of us that know something about saws know that there's more than displacement to consider, such as durability and serviceability...in that regard, the 200T winhs hands down


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## blsnelling (Jan 5, 2007)

Here's a couple replies from the seller. BTW,what is the HP rating on the 200T and 191T.

"The MS200T is a little bit lighter than the 191 (1+lb more), and
surprisingly .3 bhp more. But the torque and stroke to me feel more
substantial in the 191. That might be why I can tell a difference
between the two, seemingly the 200 being the inferior saw. When I put
the two to wood, in my opinion, the 191 pulls better, even with the
.325 full chisel chain, while the 200T is fitted with the 3/8 picco.
They're both great saws."

"The MS200T bore is 40mm, like the 190/019. I have several of both. There is no comparison (though the 200 cost 2x more when they were both available). The 191 is like using...and I kid you not, a 290 with an over the top handle. The bore is the the same @ 46mm, and when you crank this saw, you almost need to strap that dude to the floor."


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## bytehoven (Jan 5, 2007)




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## blsnelling (Jan 5, 2007)

192T = 30cm
200T = 35cm
191T = *46*cm

That makes the displacement of the 191T 31% greater than the 200T and 53% greater than the 192T. So what is the power difference in the 191T and the 200T? Was the 191T too big, heavy and powerful for a top handle saw.


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## fishhuntcutwood (Jan 5, 2007)

bytehoven said:


>



Yep....


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## rahtreelimbs (Jan 5, 2007)

blsnelling said:


> Here's a couple replies from the seller. BTW,what is the HP rating on the 200T and 191T.
> 
> "The MS200T is a little bit lighter than the 191 (1+lb more), and
> surprisingly .3 bhp more. But the torque and stroke to me feel more
> ...




Funny........I received a reply from this guy too!!!



*The 200T is 1+lb lighter, and approx .3 more bhp, but I tell ya, when
you put the two to wood, the 191 pulls better, even with the .325 full
chisel, while the 200 is fitted with 3/8 picco. I won't deny that the
200 is a fine saw, but the 191 torque seems better stroked for its cc.
I'm not an engineer though, so what do I know. 
Thx for input.*


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## Diesel JD (Jan 5, 2007)

I'm pretty sure the 191t was a turd. He really wants to sell it to say all that stuff about it. If the 191t was so awesome Stihl wouldn't have needed to replace it with the 192t. My dealer has 2 on the shelf he just can't move...they just don't look or feel right, and the dealers say they are a nightmare to service


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## ray benson (Jan 5, 2007)

MS 191T... 46.5cc 1.46KW (2.04bhp) 8.8lbs.
MS 200T... 35.2cc 1.65KW (2.2bph) 7.9lbs.


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## adkranger (Jan 5, 2007)

*Most powerful top handle?*

I had a 009 once, thought that was the most powerful "over the top handle". Thought it was MUCH better than my 200t.

:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: 

Give the guy a brake, he's just trying to find one of P.T. Barnum's customers, you know, the one's that are born every minute.


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## Adkpk (Jan 6, 2007)

Diesel JD said:


> I'm pretty sure the 191t was a turd. He really wants to sell it to say all that stuff about it. If the 191t was so awesome Stihl wouldn't have needed to replace it with the 192t. My dealer has 2 on the shelf he just can't move...they just don't look or feel right, and the dealers say they are a nightmare to service



I like my 191, fine. But when I bring it to the dealer to repair it, he always give me grief. It must be a nightmare to take apart. 

This thread has been a good source of info about an unpopular saw. This is why I needed to get a 200t as a backup. I have whatsnext to thank for that.


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## Lakeside53 (Jan 6, 2007)

I agree with your dealer... PITA..... you can't believe what you have to do just to take of the carb... 

It's not bad once you done a zillion times.. but everything has to be assembled in exactly the right order.

Definitely Stihl's worst design wrt service


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## jhellwig (Jan 6, 2007)

To give the guy the benefit of the doubt, the way i hear everyone talk about the 029 it could very well be more of a saw.


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## Marc1 (Jan 7, 2007)

Sure thing you guys bag e-bay a lot. However e-bay has little to do with what people choose to sell and buy, it just provides the marketplace and some rules for the exchange.

Good model chainsaws in good conditions and cheap are a specialized find,not likely to be on e-bay. Too much demand not enough offers. Such is the domain of local flea markets. Not that flea market stall holders don't try to offload bad saw with smooth talk. However they don't rate a mention.

I find e-bay not only a superb place to shop and sell but also a unique medium a revolution of this times to be used as for what it is a marketplace for all young and old, for those trained in the art of writing and for those who have English as a second language or not at all. Remember e-bay does not offer spell check like this site.

I have bought thousands of dollars worth of tools, power-tools, musical instruments and also chainsaw on e-bay with success. My best find was a Bosh Jackhammer worth $2700 new for $50. Cost me $150 to get bck to working conditions. A Saxophone worth nothing for $150 with a mouthpiece worth $600. A palm nailer that retails here for 220 at $40 new, my Homelite1050 was bought on e-bay for $100. I am aware that it probably would not fetch $100 if sold at your local town Sunday market but I couldn't buy a saw that size in Australia for less than $500, so there you go, it is not all bad news guys, cheer up, e-bay has made the world a lot smaller that's for sure.
Of course if that is a good thing or not may be a matter for a separate philosophical discussion.


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## PainAndMurphy (Feb 26, 2014)

Just got a 191T from eBay and brought it home overseas.. one in a *very good condition!* Took some spray-paint while it was lying aside somewhere, but I didn't care. I could tell in the images it's *barely used! *So it's arrived, let it drink what it likes - and pop!! WHAT A TORQUE!!
Got the spray-paint removed patiently with medical-alcohol a friend got for me.

I'll keep you all posted if you wish..

IMO - it's a freaking 025/MS250 squeezed and wrapped with a top-handle!! I cannot see the link posted at the very beginning but I assure you - the face that you can put on a .325 reeeeeeally gets tickles in my fingers................ gonna get myself a 025 bar.. LOL 

* Must say it's not the original bar. It came with a STIHL bar, and most of the paint was still on it! I know you can't tell if it was it's 1st bar, but from how the saw looks - definitely possible! 

Jo.


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## PainAndMurphy (Mar 18, 2014)

I have shot a *.3gp video to put here just to find out it this system can't handle those.. sorry :/


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## Smaug (Sep 19, 2020)

Adkpk said:


> I like my 191, fine. But when I bring it to the dealer to repair it, he always give me grief. It must be a nightmare to take apart.
> 
> This thread has been a good source of info about an unpopular saw. This is why I needed to get a 200t as a backup. I have whatsnext to thank for that.


I took mine appart dozen time, until toi manage To disconect the intake manifold that run all along the saw grow your filter in the back to the intake port this is the only difficulty.


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## Dean-O (Sep 19, 2020)

When a customer walks in with an 019 (don’t see many 191Ts) that needs work we tell them right off that bat that the labor cost is going to be high just to take it apart to check the piston and air/vac check the saw, before we do any actual repairs. What a nightmare that saw is to work on. I would love to sit down and chat with whatever “engineer” designed that saw.


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## sawfun (Sep 19, 2020)

Were'nt 191t's a California epa open port deal? 46cc's ought to have some torque and 1 lb. over 200t puts it in Poulan cva 25 territory weight wise.


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## siouxindian (Sep 19, 2020)

Marc1 said:


> Sure thing you guys bag e-bay a lot. However e-bay has little to do with what people choose to sell and buy, it just provides the marketplace and some rules for the exchange.
> 
> Good model chainsaws in good conditions and cheap are a specialized find,not likely to be on e-bay. Too much demand not enough offers. Such is the domain of local flea markets. Not that flea market stall holders don't try to offload bad saw with smooth talk. However they don't rate a mention.
> 
> ...


you been blessed with good luck .what abought the man that sold a rare saw to a person in another continent and when this person took all the good and hard to find parts off and then disputed it was not represented as described got his money back.ebay is a buyer and seller nightmare.good luck on your good luck. p.s you prolly should play the lottery powerball.


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## 67L36Driver (Sep 19, 2020)

So the 191t is 45cc? 

I thought it may have been a misprint in the stats.[emoji2960]

I had one. It is very impressive performer.

Sold it to my lawn guy. He loves it. [emoji106]


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## Smaug (Sep 20, 2020)

So, anybody stop me if I misunderstood what I red here but... so the 191 is based on a 290 block with shorter stroke 191 is 46cc 290 is 56cc ... it gave me some funny idea... if crank and piston is compatible I will look if I can adapt casing to a 290 cylinder. a 3,8hp pruning saw would be fun.


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## 67L36Driver (Sep 23, 2020)

I found this:







An eleven cc increase in the same package is to be admired. [emoji15]


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## Smaug (Dec 4, 2020)

I guess is why you can put longer bar on a 191t than on a 200t more torque 0.4 nm more is not negligible, and due to the intake system I am pretty sure the engine is a bit strangled imagine the carbon is not under the air filter but just up the gas tank ant to link filter to carb, you have a flat oval tube above 1 inch wide on less than a 1/2inch high running just under the top of the case . Do you imagine the loss of aire velocity and pressure when it arrive to carb. The proof the carb is same than a 180 if my memory is right but the engine is way bigger so... Next year I will try some mods printing in 3d a new handle to move the oil tank where the airfilter is, move down the gas tank where the oil tank is and put a straight tube than put a ms240 carb and a 50cc motorcycle air filter across the opening of ancient gas tank cover.... and a better breathing exhaust... I am pretty sure I will reach the 3hp. My only fear the crank is same as a 180 and so probably bearings too will they survive to the mods.


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## KASH (Dec 5, 2020)

Stihl 08s 60cc very simple saw to work on.


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## 67L36Driver (Dec 5, 2020)

KASH said:


> Stihl 08s 60cc very simple saw to work on.



But, do you climb with it?


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## KASH (Dec 5, 2020)

Only as high as the first limb on the tree trunk.


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