# pickup truck to dump truck



## climber338 (Jan 21, 2010)

Has anybody done a pickup to dump convertion on there trucks? I know that they have those dump inserts but i much rather go all the way and have a flat bed dump. Ive seen them and it just seems like alot of space is lost. Ive looked for flat bed dump kits but have not had any luck with that.


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## nms0219 (Jan 21, 2010)

I have done it before but the big thing is that the frame aint the same. You need to reinforce it alot. Truck builders have kits you can buy to do it but it aint cheap. Other issue is the title of the truck changes. After you do the work you need to have the DMV inspect it and reissue a title.


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## climber338 (Jan 21, 2010)

ok well maybe ill just go with the dump insert and make for trips back home for now.


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## Mikecutstrees (Jan 21, 2010)

Why don't you trade it in on a dump truck. There are alot of nice used dump trucks out there now. Good luck..... Mike


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## tjbier (Jan 21, 2010)

here you go. pretty cool. It's not an aftermarket kit.
http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=122707


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## autobaun70 (Jan 21, 2010)

any particular reason you aren't considering a dump trailer? You can get much greater capacity volume wise from a typcal tag along dump trailer than you can from converting a p/u over to a dump bed. I regularly pull a 8 yard (7 ton) behind my 1/2 ton p/u to haul mulch or brush. Granted a trailer this size full of soil or gravel will sure enough be heavy, but for average use you can handle quite a bit of volume before weight becomes too much of an issue.


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## B-Edwards (Jan 22, 2010)

My first truck to use a chipper with was a 1978 3/4 4x4 chevy . I put duals on the back and adaptors on the front so I had ton wheels all the way around. I also had a small custom dump bed put on it It did ok but was never enough truck to haul what I needed it to. I knew I had to upgrade but put it off as everyone does .We hauled firewood on it also and some very heavy loads at that. I met my guys at a job one morning and deciding I would back the truck and chipper in as it was very tight and I didnt need anything messed up. I noticed when I hit the brakes that the truck rocked back and forth from the left front to right rear. I looked to see what was wrong and the spring hanger which supports alot of weight had ripped lose and these guys didnt even know it. One finaly said hey so and so dropped off the shoulder of the road yesterday on that side and felt funny after that . Things happen but usualy if you are using equipment like I did this is what happens and it can be a very bad thing. I understand trying to save money and do what you can but I would just buy a truck already designed for what you want to do or a dump trailer. Trying to save money can cost you huge, I see it all the time. Good luck.


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## Ellistrees (Feb 5, 2010)

*I converted mine without to much trouble.*

We sold it only because it was 2 wheel drive. But we did convert the regular bed into a dump. The problem we ran into was couldn't put the rear bumper back in the same place. Had to mount the rear bumper to the bed and then couldn't use a hitch so we ended up leaving the rear bumper off.
Use it that way for couple years and never had to change the title but that is hear in southern Indiana.

I think we got our kit from Northern Hydraulics.
Did have to do some welding and drilling.

Now we use a dump trailer. Holds more but still not enough.


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## ropensaddle (Feb 5, 2010)

Mine is great twin cylinder pto will dump 3 yards of gravel like its nothing of course that was a heck of a load lol.


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## omegajim (Feb 5, 2010)

There are enough 1 tons around that converting anything smaller just isn't worth the cost.


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## ropensaddle (Feb 5, 2010)

omegajim said:


> There are enough 1 tons around that converting anything smaller just isn't worth the cost.



I would not consider anything smaller than a one ton.


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## ozarktreeman (Feb 10, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> Mine is great twin cylinder pto will dump 3 yards of gravel like its nothing of course that was a heck of a load lol.



WOW! thats a good looking truck for a ford,Do some horse trading on it.:deadhorse: LOL. 
Nice though Wayne.


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## ropensaddle (Feb 10, 2010)

ozarktreeman said:


> WOW! thats a good looking truck for a ford,Do some horse trading on it.:deadhorse: LOL.
> Nice though Wayne.



Been looking all over for a twin cylinder one ton pto dump and this one was right under my nose lol:monkey: 79 f 350 with air rare bird and you know how I hate sweating lol.


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## Oldtimer (Feb 10, 2010)

I purchased a 83K mile 2000 F550 4x4 PSD with a 9' plow and an 11' dump back when Diesel was $5.00 a gallon and they were desperate to unload diesels...
Best decision I have made in a long time...I paid $15,000 and it came with all new brakes and rotors, new windshield, carrier bearings, U-joints, and it had a 2 yard sander too...

What it has taught me is that spending the coin for a truck that will do the job without issue is always a good idea. This 550 carries 2 cords easily, and legally. A tonner in NH can't carry 1 cord of green hardwood legally.
I would advise anyone who's looking to buy a ton dump to look into a 450 or better yet, 550 sized truck...


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## Ellistrees (Feb 10, 2010)

*Problem with f-550 truck is can't pull most trailers without CDL*

Where to draw the line on the size can be different for everyone.
For me I have a CDL license anyways because I need it for my 7500 bucket truck. But most do not have a CDL license
One should consider if they are going to every pull a trailer and how much this will add to the CGVW (Combined gross vehicle weight). If this goes over 26,000 lbs you will need a CDL license.
This can be more of a problem than actually being over weight.
DOT around here is constantly stoping commercial trucks. If it has a name on it or hauling anything for money it is a commercial truck.


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## Mikecutstrees (Feb 10, 2010)

Yes, as Ellis said above that can be a problem. I have a class B cdl. But with my bucket truck which weighs 29,990 loaded I can't pull a trailer over 10,000 lbs without a class A CDL. Which is a pain too. Maybe someday I'll get my class A. Till then trailers have to be under 10,000 lbs.... Mike


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## ropensaddle (Feb 10, 2010)

I have my Mack for the heavy stuff my lil one ton is for chips and the small jobs! Class A all the way lol you must have worked at Asplun d


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## Ellistrees (Feb 10, 2010)

*Do you know what size trailer can be pulled behind a F-450*

I have a F-250 and can pull up to a 16,000 trailer without CDL which my guys drive. But have wanted to upgrade to a 350 or 450.
Because like you mentioned, trucks never seem to be strong enough. Though I don't seem to over weight my GMC 7500.


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## ropensaddle (Feb 10, 2010)

Ellistrees said:


> I have a F-250 and can pull up to a 16,000 trailer without CDL which my guys drive. But have wanted to upgrade to a 350 or 450.
> Because like you mentioned, trucks never seem to be strong enough. Though I don't seem to over weight my GMC 7500.



Combine gvw of truck and trailer but they may still fine you. If trucks GVW is 10K and trailer is 16k = 26000 which is one pound under CDL. You also still have to be road certified for trucks under CDL and over 10 k GVW I believe I have my A so no worry there. 

I just sold this truck and got my the old 79 because the EPA is ruining diesel trucks.


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## Ellistrees (Feb 10, 2010)

*I know all that, just don't know the GVW of a 450 and a 350*

Just though someone here might have or know the GVW of a F350 or F450 so as to add to the GVW of my trailers.:monkey:


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## ozarktreeman (Feb 10, 2010)

Ellistrees said:


> Just though someone here might have or know the GVW of a F350 or F450 so as to add to the GVW of my trailers.:monkey:



google what you just said and you have the answer my friend.


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## Mikecutstrees (Feb 10, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> I have my Mack for the heavy stuff my lil one ton is for chips and the small jobs! Class A all the way lol you must have worked at Asplun d




Nope never worked at Asplundh, got my CDL to drive my bucket, mistakenly thought at the time I only would need a class B. I'll get my class A one day.... Mike


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## ropensaddle (Feb 10, 2010)

Mikecutstrees said:


> Nope never worked at Asplundh, got my CDL to drive my bucket, mistakenly thought at the time I only would need a class B. I'll get my class A one day.... Mike



Does your truck have air brakes?


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## Mikecutstrees (Feb 10, 2010)

I have an air brake endorsement on my licence but my truck has hydraulic brakes...... Mike


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## ropensaddle (Feb 10, 2010)

Mikecutstrees said:


> I have an air brake endorsement on my licence but my truck has hydraulic brakes...... Mike



All you got to do is combination and retest driving then I believe.


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## Mikecutstrees (Feb 10, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> All you got to do is combination and retest driving then I believe.




Thats good to know. Thanks for the info! Mike


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## lxt (Feb 11, 2010)

autobaun70 said:


> any particular reason you aren't considering a dump trailer? You can get much greater capacity volume wise from a typcal tag along dump trailer than you can from converting a p/u over to a dump bed. I regularly pull a 8 yard (7 ton) behind my 1/2 ton p/u to haul mulch or brush. Granted a trailer this size full of soil or gravel will sure enough be heavy, but for average use you can handle quite a bit of volume before weight becomes too much of an issue.




7 Tons with a 1/2 ton p/u......????? 14,000lbs is definately CDL territory, not to mention...I dont know too many 1/2 tons I would even trust with that kinda load.....I have a 3/4 superduty & its only rated to LEGALLY tow 8800lbs. be careful thats a big fine you are asking for there!!!


LXT.............


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## Ellistrees (Feb 11, 2010)

lxt said:


> 7 Tons with a 1/2 ton p/u......????? 14,000lbs is definately CDL territory, not to mention...I dont know too many 1/2 tons I would even trust with that kinda load.....I have a 3/4 superduty & its only rated to LEGALLY tow 8800lbs. be careful thats a big fine you are asking for there!!!
> 
> 
> LXT.............


You might want to check your numbers
My F-250 superduty is rated to tow 19,900 total that is with the weight of the truck which weighs about 7500


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## ropensaddle (Feb 11, 2010)

lxt said:


> 7 Tons with a 1/2 ton p/u......????? 14,000lbs is definately CDL territory, not to mention...I dont know too many 1/2 tons I would even trust with that kinda load.....I have a 3/4 superduty & its only rated to LEGALLY tow 8800lbs. be careful thats a big fine you are asking for there!!!
> 
> 
> LXT.............



I was at over 40000 in this all the way to Maine and back and yes it was cdl territory with permits and the whole nine. Factory ratings do not mean squat in legality terms. Anything with a combined weight over 26001 lbs is cdl turf.


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## ropensaddle (Feb 11, 2010)

catfish1 said:


> Consider insurance as well. I'm not sure how it works in your particular state, but here, commercial insurance is required for dump trucks over a certain GVRW. My C30 requires commercial. Don't under-register either. The fines can be costly.



You got that right I am tagged at 44k in the mack the highest for dual tandems but I know I have ran over loaded at times. My truck alone weighs in at 29500 though so about 7 tons is my payload wood and brush is variable with weight so it is very posible I have been at 10 or better trying to get done with a job. I if I keep the truck need to put a tag axle under here then there would be know way in wood I could be overloaded and not spilling out the top. I wonder what w 32" oak about 100 foot tall weighs I can usually get the whole tree on one load.


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## lxt (Feb 11, 2010)

You sure on the F-250 towing?? I thought any tow behind weighing more than 10,001 lbs you needed class A? I might be wrong though.



LXT...........


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## Ellistrees (Feb 11, 2010)

lxt said:


> You sure on the F-250 towing?? I thought any tow behind weighing more than 10,001 lbs you needed class A? I might be wrong though.
> 
> 
> 
> LXT...........



Yes, I'm am absolutley sure you do not need a CDL license for a F-250 and pulling a trailer.
You only need a CDL if the GVWR (Gross vehicle weight rating) is more than 26,000lb. 
F-250 GVRW is 9800 lb for the truck + the trailer GVRW. 
So the trailer could be up to 16,200 lbs before needing a CDL A. Though a F-250 combined GVWR per owners manual is 19,900 lbs. If your pulling a trailer that heavy with a F-250 you will grossly over weight and the CDL won't be the concern.
You only need a *CDL B* if not pulling a trailer but the truck GVRW is over 26,000.
CDL license is for getting over 26,000. The Class A CDL is for a combined unit like pulling a trailer but still over 26,000 lb.
The 10,000 lb rule your probably thinking of is needing a DOT number if pulling a trailer and the combined GVWR is over 10,000 lbs. This is one of the most common reasons DOT pulls guys over. Example 1/2 ton pick up pulling a landscape trailer is over the 10,000 lb limit requireing a DOT number. The dead give away to the DOT is if the trailer has tandem axless. Tandem axles trailers almost always are over 3500 lbs and with any pickup that would be over the 10,000 lb. 
And if you have DOT numbers you are required to have a current physical on board and fire extinquisher and triangles and a name on the side. The exception to this is if you have a CDL A license but then if you to maintain a CDL license you have to keep on file with DOT a physical so this is not much of an exception..


Sorry if this was to much information.
Feel free to PM me if I have confused you.


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## ropensaddle (Feb 11, 2010)

lxt said:


> You sure on the F-250 towing?? I thought any tow behind weighing more than 10,001 lbs you needed class A? I might be wrong though.
> 
> 
> 
> LXT...........



I think you may be right on that but I thought is was combined gvws.


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## lxt (Feb 13, 2010)

Im pretty sure that towing 10,001 & above require class A, at this point it is a combination vehicle.

Gvw is only the weight of the vehicle & its payload combined together, I would have to read the owners manual to see what the suggested tow rating of an F-250 is.......Im pretty sure its 8800 lbs depending on model, hell towing a 4500lbs genie lift around i know its there!!!

I`ll have to check the FMCSR!!


LXT................


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## 1CallLandscape (Feb 13, 2010)

combined GVW can not excede 26k , my c-30 has a 10k gvw and my trailer has a 10k gvw they combine the total registered gvw and if you are over you are :censored: 

as far as the dump kit i have an 02' chevy 2500hd that i built a dump kit for it. i retained the bumper and my hitch, i just built a custom drop hitch to accomadate the bumper roll. i lift 1 cord of wood or 4yards of chips no sweat with it. i only moved the bed back 1/2 " to allow for the dump swing. ill take some pics today and post them. i have had it in the truck since 03' and am very happy with it id never put an insert in because you lose space plus alot more weight always on your truck


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## Ellistrees (Feb 13, 2010)

*You better check and please edit so as not to steer wrong.*



lxt said:


> Im pretty sure that towing 10,001 & above require class A, at this point it is a combination vehicle.
> 
> Gvw is only the weight of the vehicle & its payload combined together, I would have to read the owners manual to see what the suggested tow rating of an F-250 is.......Im pretty sure its 8800 lbs depending on model, hell towing a 4500lbs genie lift around i know its there!!!
> 
> ...



I beg you please check the FMCSR book before steering people wrong. Cause I am absolutely sure you do not need a CDL A or B even if it is a combination vehicle as long as the total combined weight rating is not over 26,000 lbs. CDL license is only required for vehicles over 26,000 lbs. There is a CDL A and a CDL B. The B is for just trucks over 25,000 lbs and the A is for a combination over 26,000 lbs.
Also if you read past threads we've been though this about every other week and some body has to say it. 
The mis information referring to the 10,000 lb rule -
Guys get stop pulling a trailer and gets a ticket but not for not having a CDL but for not having DOT numbers on the truck, Not having a physical in the truck, not having a name on the truck, not having fire extinquisher on the truck, and not having triangles or flares.


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## cowtipper (Feb 13, 2010)

Ellistrees said:


> I beg you please check the FMCSR book before steering people wrong. Cause I am absolutely sure you do not need a CDL A or B even if it is a combination vehicle as long as the total combined weight rating is not over 26,000 lbs. CDL license is only required for vehicles over 26,000 lbs. There is a CDL A and a CDL B. The B is for just trucks over 25,000 lbs and the A is for a combination over 26,000 lbs.
> Also if you read past threads we've been though this about every other week and some body has to say it.
> The mis information referring to the 10,000 lb rule -
> Guys get stop pulling a trailer and gets a ticket but not for not having a CDL but for not having DOT numbers on the truck, Not having a physical in the truck, not having a name on the truck, not having fire extinquisher on the truck, and not having triangles or flares.



The Federal standard requires States to issue a CDL to drivers according to the following license classifications: 

Class A -- Any combination of vehicles with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds. 

Class B -- Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 10,000 pounds GVWR. 

Class C -- Any single vehicle, or combination of vehicles, that does not meet the definition of Class A or Class B, but is either designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver, or is placarded for hazardous materials.


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## Ellistrees (Feb 13, 2010)

*Where did you copy that infor at?*

I hadn't read it that way but if so
I stand corrected on the Class B just for trucks but for trucks over 26,000 lb and trailers under 10,000 lb 
Basiclly they are not counting the trailer as a combination if it is under 10,000 lb. But I'm sure they do add it's weight rating.
Still do not need a CDL license just cause pulling a trailer over 10,000 lbs.


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## cowtipper (Feb 13, 2010)

Ellistrees said:


> I hadn't read it that way but if so
> I stand corrected on the Class B just for trucks but for trucks over 26,000 lb and trailers under 10,000 lb
> Basiclly they are not counting the trailer as a combination if it is under 10,000 lb. But I'm sure they do add it's weight rating.
> Still do not need a CDL license just cause pulling a trailer over 10,000 lbs.



Here

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/registration-licensing/cdl/cdl.htm

and also 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commercial_driver's_license


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## joesawer (Feb 14, 2010)

I drove an 84 f250 for years pulling goose neck trailers with it. It has a 6.9 that has been turned up some.
I rolled across the scales at 29,700 lbs one time. It was not the heaviest load ever just the heaviest I weighed.
My dad took a 12 foot flat dump from an old f600 and cut it down and put on it. He also converted it to duals it looks just like a one ton except it still has the twin I beam front suspension.
With 4+ tons of gravel the motor does not even begin to work hard, but it is about all the tires want.
I had an 06 f250 4X4 with a gvw rating of 10,000. I don't remember what the towing capacity was. I remember back in the day a 10,000 gvw one ton was a big deal.


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## lxt (Feb 15, 2010)

Ellistrees said:


> I hadn't read it that way but if so
> I stand corrected on the Class B just for trucks but for trucks over 26,000 lb and trailers under 10,000 lb
> Basiclly they are not counting the trailer as a combination if it is under 10,000 lb. But I'm sure they do add it's weight rating.
> Still do not need a CDL license just cause pulling a trailer over 10,000 lbs.




If your pulling a trailer weighing more than 10,001 in pa you will!!!!!

Talked to state police officer (one in family) now things have changed since I taught orientation to commercial drivers years ago....but here is the interpretation:

GVW.......weight of the vehicle to include load, the 26,001 & up rule does not apply to combination vehicles, think tri-axles & non-combi vehicles!!

Combination vehicle is vehicle with trailer, if the trailer weight exceeds 10,001 lbs you better have a Class A CDL, Class B will not work because its a non-combination license & used primarily for Tri-axles/ cement trucks & all other straight trucks!!

You can say BS all you want to the trailer weight & combi not being 26k or above for having an "A".... 26k & above is a straight truck weight not combination.....this is subject to interpretation by the way....sooooo if my future brother in law was to pull you over in the F350 pulling a trailer with 10k plus on it & you only have a class c license......:help: he`s gonna have fun writting that ticket for you!!!

BTW.... I had to ask him about towing my genie as I got pulled over due to no license or registration......due to it being a mobile piece of equipment I am exempt from having to register or license it in the commonwealth of PA, but would have to in Ohio......go figure how things work from state to state??

LXT................


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## climber338 (Feb 15, 2010)

well guys i found a nice 2004 f250 with the 5.4 4x4 with a stick with only 70k on it for $7000 under 10000 gvw but i might just register it for more. This thing is pretty nice if you ask me. I Also found a dump insert that a guy is selling for pretty cheap ($800) but im still going to try to talk him down on that. Im going to school in the fall for arboriculture and forestry so its only really going to be a summer thing along with alittle bit of lawn care. Im going to get my CDL anyways for driving a bus on campus because they pay alot of my college tuition. From what ive seen there are different rules for different states. All i know is that mass is one of the worst for screwing people over for gvw ratings and so on. EVERYTHING IS ILLEGAL IN MASS !!!!


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## ropensaddle (Feb 15, 2010)

climber338 said:


> well guys i found a nice 2004 f250 with the 5.4 4x4 with a stick with only 70k on it for $7000 under 10000 gvw but i might just register it for more. This thing is pretty nice if you ask me. I Also found a dump insert that a guy is selling for pretty cheap ($800) but im still going to try to talk him down on that. Im going to school in the fall for arboriculture and forestry so its only really going to be a summer thing along with alittle bit of lawn care. Im going to get my CDL anyways for driving a bus on campus because they pay alot of my college tuition. From what ive seen there are different rules for different states. All i know is that mass is one of the worst for screwing people over for gvw ratings and so on. EVERYTHING IS ILLEGAL IN MASS !!!!



Mass bureaucracy lol


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## Koa Man (Feb 16, 2010)

I love my dump insert. I can haul my Gehl AL20DX or my Yamaha UMax
with no trailer. Can't beat loading on the ground.


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## Mikecutstrees (Feb 16, 2010)

Koa Man said:


> I love my dump insert. I can haul my Gehl AL20DX or my Yamaha UMax
> with no trailer. Can't beat loading on the ground.



Thats pretty neat, kinda like a mini hook lift.....


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## climber338 (Feb 16, 2010)

ya me to man. did you build that or buy it. if you bought it please let us know what brand it is. thanks


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## Koa Man (Feb 16, 2010)

I bought it.
www.powerdecks.com


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## loadthestove (Feb 16, 2010)

KOA,not wanting to be nosey,but roughly how much did that setup cost...


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## climber338 (Feb 17, 2010)

Koa Man said:


> I bought it.
> www.powerdecks.com



thats just awsome i am definitely going to look into those.


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## Koa Man (Feb 17, 2010)

loadthestove said:


> KOA,not wanting to be nosey,but roughly how much did that setup cost...



They are not cheap, but the ease of loading stuff makes it well worth it. It cost me $6001 with the high sides like you see in the picture. Without the high sides it is about $1100 less. You would get a flatbed and need to build your sides and gate. I didn't want to mess with that. It took 2 hours to install. Drill 2 holes in the bed and connect the 2 cables to your battery. Two strong or four weak guys can install it. I cheated and used my Gehl loader to set it in the bed.

The $6001 included about $550 in freight to ship it from PA to MA where I had a 40 ft. container being shipped from Boston. To ship from PA to HI would have cost me around $2000. The container had extra room so I filled it up with extra stuff.


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## treevet (Feb 25, 2010)

I know the pickup insert is not getting any press here but I am REAL happy with mine...Truckcraft, see ad on AS. We sold the sheht out of half cords with it this year like I planned and we use it for much more. 7k cap dump.


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## ropensaddle (Feb 25, 2010)

treevet said:


> I know the pickup insert is not getting any press here but I am REAL happy with mine...Truckcraft, see ad on AS. We sold the sheht out of half cords with it this year like I planned and we use it for much more. 7k cap dump.



That is a sweet setup I really like those, aluminum inserts? If I get me another dooley I will buy used low as mileage as I can and cash! If I did I would definately want one of those, I believe they are the best insert. Of course I like mine 79 too I feel at home in an antique


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## treevet (Feb 25, 2010)

ropensaddle said:


> That is a sweet setup I really like those, aluminum inserts? If I get me another dooley I will buy used low as mileage as I can and cash! If I did I would definately want one of those, I believe they are the best insert. Of course I like mine 79 too I feel at home in an antique



I recently sold my 51 ford wrecker and I used to tell people that ood and ahhd about it ......look at that old truck...I am 2 years older than it is.haha


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## ropensaddle (Feb 25, 2010)

treevet said:


> I recently sold my 51 ford wrecker and I used to tell people that ood and ahhd about it ......look at that old truck...I am 2 years older than it is.haha


That is a cool truck imo did it have the flathead?


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## treevet (Feb 25, 2010)

yup turn the key press the button and for 25 years started and ran all day long if you needed it. 

I hate myself for selling it so much I am going to find out where it is. Traded it for a pos bobcat mini.


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## ropensaddle (Feb 25, 2010)

treevet said:


> yup turn the key press the button and for 25 years started and ran all day long if you needed it.
> 
> I hate myself for selling it so much I am going to find out where it is. Traded it for a pos bobcat mini.



I like old henry's 79 back tough old trucks. The best thing for me is; I can work on old school vehicles even to the degree of overhaul but don't even want to try to work on a computer type vehicle.


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## treevet (Feb 25, 2010)

They used to make em thicker too. That old f4 drove that 2k plus piece around like it was a toothpick. You would not believe some of the stuff we did with that truck. We pulled huge logs up embankments and out of woods by lashing a pully to different trees. We hooked up to 6 foot plus stumps and drove them down the road to the dump swinging around. Easier to work on and tougher structurally.


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## STLfirewood (Feb 25, 2010)

lxt said:


> If your pulling a trailer weighing more than 10,001 in pa you will!!!!!
> 
> Talked to state police officer (one in family) now things have changed since I taught orientation to commercial drivers years ago....but here is the interpretation:
> 
> ...



I stopped by a weight station and asked the to clarify things for me a while back. This is how things were explained to me. I'm not saying I'm right just saying it's what I was told. If you have a truck with a license of 26k and above pulling a trailer with a GVW of 10k or above you have to have a class A CDL. If you have a truck with a license below 26k you can pull whatever weight trailer you want. They go by the weight per axle and the weight rating of the tires. The weight your pulling and the truck can't weigh more then your license. You don't have to have a class A. I had a 30k tag on my F-550 I lowered it to a 24k farm tag. If I go over 24k I can just get a over weight ticket. If I kept it at 30k I needed a class a to drive the truck and tow my dump trailer.

Scott


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## lxt (Feb 26, 2010)

STLfirewood said:


> I stopped by a weight station and asked the to clarify things for me a while back. This is how things were explained to me. I'm not saying I'm right just saying it's what I was told. If you have a truck with a license of 26k and above pulling a trailer with a GVW of 10k or above you have to have a class A CDL. If you have a truck with a license below 26k you can pull whatever weight trailer you want. They go by the weight per axle and the weight rating of the tires. The weight your pulling and the truck can't weigh more then your license. You don't have to have a class A. I had a 30k tag on my F-550 I lowered it to a 24k farm tag. If I go over 24k I can just get a over weight ticket. If I kept it at 30k I needed a class a to drive the truck and tow my dump trailer.
> 
> Scott




I am assuming that it must depend on the state????? I have buddies who work for 1st energy in massilon ohio, they were forced by the company to upgrade to class A (1st energy paid for it), the reason for such was that often their trailers exceed the 10,001 lbs rating even for their light truck division.

The safety supervisor for Davey Tree (good friend of mine) told me regardless of the type of vehicle towing the trailer...if the trailer weight exceeds 10,001 lb you are considered a combination vehicle....here is the catch 22!!

a combination vehicle is not based on combined weight, I can drive a conventional Kenworth in bobtail mode with a class B, it is when the trailered item reaches a weight of 10,001 lb or more that you need the Class A.

If what you say is true then I can drive a semi with an empty trailer with nothing more than a class C with an airbrake endorsement, the tractor only weights about 14-15,000 lbs & an empty flatbed at 8,000lbs, thus the combined weight is under 26k......Try this & see what happens!!!

the term "combination Vehicle" is very broad & subject to interpretation, alot of guys in my area run 1-ton dumps with trailers & the smallest skidsteers possible to stay under the CDL class A requirement.

there was a poster who made mention of his pickup truck towing 14-15k or something like that......I checked with the 2003 ford towing manual & unless your driving an f-450 or above you are exceeding the tow rating on your truck, the f-250 series 4x4 with dual wheel, auto tranny, diesel equipped legally cannot tow over 10k give or take, the 13-14k mark doesnt come into play until you reach the high end of the 350`s or 450`s.

Again I havent taught from the FMCSR in years but it seems the confusion hasnt gone away either, remember you cant exceed the Mfg`s requirements & must be within the D.O.T`s requirements...........oh hell were all illegal, I remember when an F-150 4x4 with a full tank of gas & a passenger was legally overweight.... go figure!

Stay Safe, Be Careful


LXT...................


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## ropensaddle (Feb 26, 2010)

lxt said:


> I am assuming that it must depend on the state????? I have buddies who work for 1st energy in massilon ohio, they were forced by the company to upgrade to class A (1st energy paid for it), the reason for such was that often their trailers exceed the 10,001 lbs rating even for their light truck division.
> 
> The safety supervisor for Davey Tree (good friend of mine) told me regardless of the type of vehicle towing the trailer...if the trailer weight exceeds 10,001 lb you are considered a combination vehicle....here is the catch 22!!
> 
> ...



You may be mistaken on legal and mfg because my truck here I just sold was rated to pull 16k however I had near 32000lbs on this 53 foot wedge legal all the way to Maine and back but you better have the permit and A cdl. I think I was legal to 42000 lbs on that run combined but the trailer carrying two custom horse trailers weighed 32000 alone!


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## Ellistrees (Feb 26, 2010)

*DOT regulations are federal not state, just state inforced.*



> lxt said:
> 
> 
> > I am assuming that it must depend on the state
> ...


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## STLfirewood (Feb 26, 2010)

lxt said:


> I am assuming that it must depend on the state????? I have buddies who work for 1st energy in massilon ohio, they were forced by the company to upgrade to class A (1st energy paid for it), the reason for such was that often their trailers exceed the 10,001 lbs rating even for their light truck division.
> 
> The safety supervisor for Davey Tree (good friend of mine) told me regardless of the type of vehicle towing the trailer...if the trailer weight exceeds 10,001 lb you are considered a combination vehicle....here is the catch 22!!
> 
> ...




LXT here is the difference. You have to have the tow truck licensed below 26k to not need a class A if the trailer is rated to tow above 10k. You can have a 7k pound truck hook on to a trailer that weighs 16k and still be legal. If the truck is licensed above 26k then you need a class a for a trailer withe a GVW about 10k. It all depends on what the tow truck is rated for. Also I was told by the same officer that manufacture weight rating don't mean a thing. They are a suggestion. As long as you don't exceed the hitch,ball,tires, or legal axle weight your fine. This was a local weight station but these are federal laws. Again not saying this is true but it's what I was told.


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## lxt (Feb 27, 2010)

Ellistrees said:


> > It's not how much you weigh, it's the max of plated rate or the GVRW (gross vehicle weight rating) which ever is higher. I'm sure your bottail tractor is 33,000lbs GVRW and the trailer even empty is somewhere around 80,000lbs GVRW.
> > A normal F250 is around 9,000 for just the truck, pull a 10,000 lb trailer and you do not need any CDL just a DOT number. A F350 does not requre a CDL
> >
> > Just because DAvey Tree requires their drivers to get a CDL does not mean everyone needs one.
> ...


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## lxt (Feb 27, 2010)

STLfirewood said:


> LXT here is the difference. You have to have the tow truck licensed below 26k to not need a class A if the trailer is rated to tow above 10k. You can have a 7k pound truck hook on to a trailer that weighs 16k and still be legal. If the truck is licensed above 26k then you need a class a for a trailer withe a GVW about 10k. It all depends on what the tow truck is rated for. Also I was told by the same officer that manufacture weight rating don't mean a thing. They are a suggestion. As long as you don't exceed the hitch,ball,tires, or legal axle weight your fine. This was a local weight station but these are federal laws. Again not saying this is true but it's what I was told.




I understand what you are saying, however,... the weigh masters only care about axle weight....that is all they can check for!

State Police & Dot are more thorough, if you think you can trailer haul a 15k load with a 1/2 ton........LEGALLY, you are crazy! an F-450 hauling a 14k loaded trailer................driver needs Class A & the F450 falls under the 26K rating!! hey this has been debated for many years, the truth is its upto officer interpretation!

LXT....................


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